# VANCOUVER | Public Transport



## hkskyline

*Vancouver Public Transit*

*Skytrains* operate on an honour fare system. There are no gates at the stations, but officers check for tickets regularly. Here is a ticket machine :









Skytrain









Waterfront Station 


















A pedestrian bridge links the main railway terminus at Waterfront with the *Seabus* terminal :









Granville Station









Electric trolley buses run throughout downtown :


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## Guest

are there any plans to upgrade or expand public transport in Vancouver?


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## hkskyline

Over the next 10 years, TransLink will invest $3.9 billion in transit and road improvements to maintain or improve travel times for commuters, goods and service providers, cyclists and the disabled community. 

The *Richmond-Airport-Vancouver (RAV)* rail-based rapid transit line will open in 2009, linking central Richmond, the Vancouver International Airport, and Vancouver along the Cambie corridor to central Broadway, the downtown business district and Waterfront Station.

The line is 19.5 km long with 18 stations, and will improve existing rapid transit service. For example, it will connect with SkyTrain lines that run through the eastern part of the region and the SeaBus serving the North Shore.










*Bus Fleet Replacement*
* Replace the electric trolley fleet with 228 new, zero-emmission, low-floor trolley buses between 2005 and 2007.
* Replace aging diesel buses.
* Replace older HandyDART vehicles.
* Reintroduce 50 Compressed Natural Gas buses. 

Website : http://www.translink.bc.ca/Plans_Projects/default.asp


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## Palal

Let me just say that SkyTrain is AMAZING! Quiet, fast, convenient! And most importantly, it has a railfan's seat .


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## ailiton

Express Coach routes provide direct, limited-stop service from Surrey, White Rock, Tsawwassen, North Delta, Ladner to and from Vancouver. These routes use highway coaches equipped with:

* Wheelchair lifts
* Bicycle racks
* Raised seating
* Fabric, high-backed seats with headrests and footrests
* Air conditioning
* Overhead package racks
* Individual controlled reading lights 

These routes operate Express Coach service: 

* 311 Scottsdale/Vancouver
* 351 Crescent Beach/Vancouver
* 352 Ocean Park/Vancouver
* 354 White Rock South/Vancouver
* 601 South Delta/Boundary Bay/Vancouver
* 602 Tsawwassen Heights/Vancouver
* 603 Beach Grove/Vancouver
* 604 English Bluff/Vancouver




I am travelling on route 601 almost everyday and I have to say that these bus are really great! (although not so good for standing)


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## Guest

"Replace the electric trolley fleet with 228 new, zero-emmission, low-floor trolley buses between 2005 and 2007"

will these be hydrogen fuel cell powered?


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## VAN-TO

Hope they will swing a line west on Broadway to UBC someday ....


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## en

light rail just approved from lougheed town centre to coquitlam, translink is just cheap, introducing a new system when there is already a built in train platform for future skytrain expansion to coquitlam. Start construction in 2006 open in 2009.


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## bs_lover_boy

Decisions for the RAV (Richmond-Airport-Vancouver Rapid Transit) will come out in Mid-November, stayed tuned. For more information, go to

http://www.ravprapidtransit.com/ 
(http://www.ravprapidtransit.com/)


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## spsmiler

Mr!Kiasu said:


> "Replace the electric trolley fleet with 228 new, zero-emmission, low-floor trolley buses between 2005 and 2007"
> 
> will these be hydrogen fuel cell powered?


Hi there, 


Vancouver experimented with fuel cell - and that is why they are buying electric trolleybuses.

They found that the fuel cell needed refuelling too frequently - it could not even do a full day's work without refuelling. Plus it took so much energy to produce, store etc the hydrogen that for the same energy input they could power 11 regular overhead wire powered trolleybuses. 


Then there was the cost - and the problem that hydrogen is potentially very volatile (explosive)

For more information about fuel cell buses and why they are not (yet) a solution follow this weblink http://www.tbus.org.uk/fuelcell.htm

Simon


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## hkskyline

*Richmond Airport Vancouver Rapid Transit *


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## Palal

So right now, the line is planned, so as to follow the 98-B line, right?
If that's the case, then the next step is to replace all the other B-lines with SkyTrain.


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## ailiton

Palal said:


> So right now, the line is planned, so as to follow the 98-B line, right?
> If that's the case, then the next step is to replace all the other B-lines with SkyTrain.


Skytrain will use Cambie instead of Granville.


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## samsonyuen

I'm confused...what parts of Skytrain are underground or HRT?


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## ailiton

underground - from waterfront to at least 49th ave.


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## officedweller

For the RAV line:

Between 49th Ave and Marine Drive, the line will either be at-grade or in a trench (the City of Vancouver has prohibited an elevated line.

The airport authority (YVR) requires the airport segment to be elevated. 

Both Fraser River crossings will also be elevated on bridges (as opposed tunnels), as will Bridgeport station. 

Richmond's water table is too high for tunneling so the No. 3 Rd. part will either be elevated or at-grade. Richmond City Council wants it at-grade. 

Note that RAV may not be Skytrain. 

Of the two bids received, one is from Lavalin and the other from Bombardier. According to press releases, Lavalin's is likely a conventional LRT proposal (overhead wires) (with automated and manual operationing segments) while Bombardier's is likely like Skytrain (third rail)(fully automated). This means that if Richmond's wishes for at-grade are followed (and this is not necesarily the case) then the line will not be Skytrain, but LRT on an exclusive right-of-way.

Of the existing Skytrain lines, the only undergound segments are in downtown Vancouver and in downtown New Westminster.


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## ailiton

I don't understand why they want to build a station at Westminster and then one at Richmond Center. They are just too close together.

Moreover, I think Cambie station should be called Aberdeen.


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## bs_lover_boy

They should like call it Cambie/Aberdeen Station, similar to that of Stadium/Chinatown.


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## Palal

officedweller said:


> For the RAV line:
> 
> Between 49th Ave and Marine Drive, the line will either be at-grade or in a trench (the City of Vancouver has prohibited an elevated line.
> 
> The airport authority (YVR) requires the airport segment to be elevated.
> 
> Both Fraser River crossings will also be elevated on bridges (as opposed tunnels), as will Bridgeport station.
> 
> Richmond's water table is too high for tunneling so the No. 3 Rd. part will either be elevated or at-grade. Richmond City Council wants it at-grade.
> 
> Note that RAV may not be Skytrain.
> 
> Of the two bids received, one is from Lavalin and the other from Bombardier. According to press releases, Lavalin's is likely a conventional LRT proposal (overhead wires) (with automated and manual operationing segments) while Bombardier's is likely like Skytrain (third rail)(fully automated). This means that if Richmond's wishes for at-grade are followed (and this is not necesarily the case) then the line will not be Skytrain, but LRT on an exclusive right-of-way.
> 
> Of the existing Skytrain lines, the only undergound segments are in downtown Vancouver and in downtown New Westminster.


It would be REALLY stupid to build a totally different system, which'll require new rolling stock, different maintenance yards, etc.


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## en

Theres no way they can be stupid enough to build it at-grade in Richmond, there are too many cars on No. 3 Road. But this is Translink after all, known for making stupid decisions and flip-flops (RAV line being voted out and voted in 2-3 times by the board)


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## Palal

en said:


> ... Translink after all, known for making stupid decisions and flip-flops


This seems to be a world-wide problem in transportation planning.


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## bs_lover_boy

If they Build at-grade system, there will be LONGER traffic jams in the Alderbridge, No3 road intersection, then we will have a S**T system. On the other hand, if they build the Skytrain, it will be better and WAY MORE efficient. ALso, can anyone tell me what was the system that RAVxpress proposed (the company with Siemens, MTR, Balfour Beatty etc.)?


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## npinguy

actually it wouldn't be too hard to build it at-grade in richmond considering the two central lanes are reserved for the B-line anyway.


having said that though, what happens between waterfront and 49th? Underground? That can't be can it? Too expensive I heard...


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## en

I hope the company that includes MTR wins the contract. The current SkyTrain lines are so badly run. Terrible unsafe stations, old and dirty, no controlled access (fare gates). Currently SkyTrain is know as "CrimeTrain" because it provides "free" and easy access to bums and drug dealers.


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## Palal

en said:


> I hope the company that includes MTR wins the contract. The current SkyTrain lines are so badly run. Terrible unsafe stations, old and dirty, no controlled access (fare gates). Currently SkyTrain is know as "CrimeTrain" because it provides "free" and easy access to bums and drug dealers.



That's not what I saw when I was there last summer, and I rode at all times of the day.


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## Vancouver_rocks

Bombardier has been recomended over Lavalin. I really hope they go with Bombardier as a trolley system would be impracticle.


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## yesheh

Note that if they went with the Lavilin bid, the new northeast line will follow this technology unfortunatly. The lines would not link up though, but a future line out to UBC might also be LRT. LRT may work extremley well in a city like portland, where it is grade/traffic separated a good 2/3ds of the way, but in vancouver down No. 3 road it would not work. you cannot have a main street be used for an LRT, as it will tie up way too much traffic. I wish that they'd extend the skytrain out to langley, or at least to newton, but there will never be funding...we can always dream.


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## officedweller

The winning bid will be announced tomorrow (Nov 19th). 
Global TV News reported rumours that Lavalin has won and that they have bid on the high side ($1.7 Billion) which may require re-examining the scope of the project.
Previous new releases said Lavalin's bid involved automated LRT between YVR and downtown (and manual operation on No. 3 Rd.). So it'll be fast even if it is LRT - most of the line will be underground and automated operation requires an exclusive right-of-way. 

WRT Langley, there was mention in the paper some time ago that Translink is studying a light rail connection (possibly diesel light rail) or commuter rail on existing railway tracks from Langley through Surrey to the Scott Road Skytrain Station. Probably a long time off though.


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## hkskyline

Bus @ the Airport Station interchange


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## rt_0891

Wish RAV could be above grade so it can also enjoy the views.


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## ssiguy2

I think they should go with SkyTrain because all the yards, maintenace are all there. 
Anyway you cut it thou SkyTrain is expensive technology especially on the RAV line. 
The thing that makes SkyTrain affordable is that it goes over the roads, not underthem so there are no expensive tunneling costs. So much of this line is underground that it negats all those savings. 
If you want to see a cost effective, extensive, well used rapid transit system see Calgary's CTrain........LRT. 
The service area is just 960,000 but the CTrain carries 225,000 passengers a day. High ridership for a relativly small city.


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## hkskyline

*Carr: megaprojects a waste of money *
Glenn Bohn
Vancouver Sun
5 May 2005

Green party leader Adriane Carr said Wednesday the B.C. Liberal government is wasting taxpayers' money on the $1.72 billion Richmond-Airport-Vancouver rapid transit line, just as the last New Democratic Party government did when it sunk almost half a billion dollars into fast ferries.

"I believe they were pushing the RAV line as part of their 2010 Olympic vision," Carr said at a sidewalk news conference near the SkyTrain station at Commercial and Broadway.

"For a 17-day event, it's the wrong way to go and a lot of money misspent."

Carr pointed to a document obtained under the B.C. Freedom of Information Act that she said showed the role the premier's office played in selling the RAV line to Greater Vancouver mayors and councillors.

The document, labelled "PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL," is an Aug. 7, 2002 letter to Ken Dobell, Premier Gordon Campbell's deputy minister.

The letter was written by Stephen Beatty, a Toronto-based managing director with KPMG, a huge consulting company that was advising the B.C. government how to manage RAV. The letter was released by the B.C. government to Don Toffaletto, a founder of an anti-RAV group who is now the B.C. Green Party's communications director.

Beatty urged Dobell -- a city of Vancouver manager when Campbell was mayor and once the top bureaucrat at TransLink -- to create a public sector RAV organization as soon as possible.

"The sooner the public sector sponsors can create the vehicle through which to implement the project, the better," Beatty wrote.

"The specific entity created will evolve as project development proceeds, but the entity's creation will be an important symbol of 'getting on with it' and can be used to begin the process of locking in some of the 'love and trust and pixie dust' aspects of the relationships among the various public sectors in this venture."

The B.C. government subsequently set up RAVCO to oversee the rapid transit line's design and construction, but it wasn't love at first sight for the mayors and councillors on the boards of TransLink and the Greater Vancouver regional district.

The local politicians on the TransLink board turned down the project two times before giving it the green light, and the GVRD board narrowly approved RAV by a one-vote margin.

Carr noted the GVRD had wanted to build the rapid transit line extension into Coquitlam first -- a project she supports.

The Green party wants to cancel RAV and the proposed twinning of the Port Mann bridge. Instead of those mega-projects, the party's 55-page campaign platform says the greens would "reduce dependency on single-occupancy vehicle traffic through tax-shifting measures like tolls, increased parking fees and odometer-based automobile insurance on 'pleasure use' vehicles that reward people who used their cars less." The platform document says greens would take the money saved by cancelling transportation megaprojects and spend it on such things as fast buses, mini-buses, passenger-only ferries and bicycle paths.

Greens have also proposed a five-cents-per-litre "pollution tax" on gasoline as part of its "tax-shifting" philosophy to tax the things that harm the environment.


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## ssiguy2

The RAV line is a huge waste of money. I support the idea idea of the RAV but not at 1.74 billion. Why not LRT for half that price and they could still do the Coquitlam line with the money saved and start on the SkyTrain west ext to Granville where ridership will be much higher and commercial and urban density is higher as well.
Why???........ because its so nice for the politicans to be able to cut a ribbon on a SkyTrain/subway line.
!.74 billion for 80,000 pass a day is highway robbery.


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## mr.x

Vancouver is a city that doesn't have any real highways and rapid transit has to pick up the slack of having incompetent highways. Nobody is going to take transit on something that takes as much time as driving, for example the Coquitlam Line which will be LRT. SkyTrain would take 13 minutes, LRT would take 23 minutes. and how long would LRT take for RAV? 40-45 minutes as suppose to 25 minutes with SkyTrain. Don't forget about that the Vancouver region is smaller and denser than that of Calgary. Also note that SkyTrain is originally planned for the RAV and Coquitlam lines in the GVRD LRS Plan.

Vancouver is a city that thinks ahead 100 years, not 20 years.

and of course, there's always this:












If we're to have LRT for RAV, we might as well keep the 98 B-Line instead.


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## en

The problem with building LRT in Vancouver city limits is that there is no room to put the tracks other than the Arbutus Corridor, because there is no highway system inside Vancouver, people must use regular streets to get around. I don't think there is a single east-west street that can support the elimination of 2 lanes (and I don't think sharing roadway with LRT is feasible). Plus another fact is that half of the area of Vancouver is full of expensive property (full of NIMBYs) and that is the area which rapid transit must go through in order to go to UBC.


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## [email protected]

mr.x said:


> and of course, there's always this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we're to have LRT for RAV, we might as well keep the 98 B-Line instead.


By your logic, we should not allow buses and cars in roads as well...:|



















And why do these cities shown in this thread uses trams if they are so dangerous?

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=4072063#post4072063



ssiguy2 said:


> The RAV line is a huge waste of money. I support the idea idea of the RAV but not at 1.74 billion. Why not LRT for half that price and they could still do the Coquitlam line with the money saved and start on the SkyTrain west ext to Granville where ridership will be much higher and commercial and urban density is higher as well.
> Why???........ because its so nice for the politicans to be able to cut a ribbon on a SkyTrain/subway line.
> !.74 billion for 80,000 pass a day is highway robbery.


I agree with ssiguy2 and it is highway robbery indeed. Note that the only reason why RAV is expensive is because creme de la creme doesn't want to see a cheaper elevated system (aka Sky-train...a train high up in the sky) at their side of Main Street.


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## ssiguy2

^^^^^^^^
The thing that makes SkyTrain atleat cheaper than a subway and still can handle decent ridership levels is the fact that it is elevated. No land aquisitions and no expensive tunnels. They have completely negated the coost savings by having it underground. Thanks Campbell.......both of you.


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## hkskyline

*Vancouver rail line defended: Ravco head stresses importance of line to battle congestion *
John Greenwood 
13 May 2005
National Post

VANCOUVER - The head of the company set up to watch over construction of Vancouver's $1.8-billion airport rapid transit line played down fears yesterday that the project will hurt local businesses along the route, arguing the project is essential for the economic health of the city. 

"This is one of the fastest-growing regions in Canada," said Jane Bird, chief executive of Ravco. "Even if we wanted to, we just don't have the space to add the kind of road capacity that we need. The alternative to building [the line] is to be paralyzed by traffic congestion." 

The project -- one of the biggest public-private partnerships (known as P3s) ever undertaken in Canada -- was unveiled in connection with the 2010 Olympics and has received more than $1-billion in government funding. 

The 20-kilometre rail line would mostly run underground, connecting Vancouver with the international airport and the suburb of Richmond. 

But RAV, as it's known, faces mounting opposition from merchants and homeowners who fear their lives will be disrupted by the line's construction, set to begin in August. They worry businesses along the route will suffer losses and may even be forced to close. 

Opposition from the small group has become so intense that some officials close to RAV warn the project could be cancelled. 

The rail line is meant to alleviate Vancouver's notorious traffic problems, which are already hurting economic growth. 

The north-south corridor between Vancouver and Richmond, not now served by rapid transit, is one of the most densely populated and congested in the Lower Mainland. 

Ms. Bird said the project would add transportation capacity equivalent to 10 new road lanes. "Unless we figure out a way to move people through the city we are going to have significant long-term impact on our quality of life." 

According to government surveys, more than 80% of city residents are in favour of RAV. 

Nevertheless, last month the province announced it was extending the approval process for RAV after a group called Do RAV Right filed a petition in the British Columbia Supreme Court alleging environmental regulations weren't being followed. 

The group has warned it is ready to take its battle to federal court if necessary. 

Observers say RAV will eventually win the necessary approvals. 

The problem is there have already been so many delays that unless construction starts on schedule in August, the line might not be completed in time for the Olympics -- one of the conditions in the contract signed by SNC-Lavalin Group Inc., the leader of the private consortium building the project. 

Any more holdups could be "catastrophic," said one source. 

The project is being watched closely by companies in the P3 sector. Not only is RAV one of the most ambitious of such projects, it is also one of the first in British Columbia. If it goes well, there will likely be strong interest in further P3s in the province: if poorly, the impact could be felt for years. 

The RAV is part of a string of major infrastructure projects -- many of them P3s -- announced by the provincial Liberals when they came to power in 2001. 

Public-private partnerships, like RAV, have been fiercely opposed by the labour movement from the beginning. 

When the Vancouver transit authority was debating whether to go ahead with RAV last year, the Canadian Union of Public Employees ran ads in B.C. newspapers criticizing the P3 model and accusing the government of wasting money.


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## ssiguy2

I hope they manage to get the whole thing delayed enough so it is cancelled. 
If they want the RAV just make it LRT. Have downtown in exclusive ROW....just as fast as a tunnel ie Granville. 
Just run it over Cambie Bridge on ROW to Broadway and then a tunnel to KingEd and then atgrade along Cambie which widen enough for its own ROW. All the way to Richmond/Airport. 
So simple. I just saved 7km of tunnel which is about 700 to 800 million on a train that will be just as fast on a system that is more user friendly. Also on its own ROW that section is already built saving more m,oney AND it could update and use the existing RailBridge over the Fraser saving yet more millions. I just cut the cost of this lline in half on a system that will be just as quick and carry just as many passengers.


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## [email protected]

I too hope the whole thing is delayed enough so it is cancelled. RAV is such a sham its not even funny. The regional transportation priorities is skewed big time because of this unnecessary subway and it has divided the region so much. And now, it seems RAVCO has lied to the public about the construction method and is now feeling the heat. I feel for those merchants along Cambie St because they supported the project based on a lie and now will pay dearly for it by being bankrupt after all their lifetime of hard work. And why? So that bitch Jane Bird can keep her $1000 per day job? WTF? Why not just elevated it and truly make it a Sky-train, a train high up in the sky, just like what you find in the rest of the Lower Mainland? 

Go DO RAV RIGHT GO!!! :naughty:


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## ssiguy2

^^^^^^^^
Premier Campbell also refused it to go down Arbutus becuase its too wealthy and would hurt his constituents.


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## officedweller

A few notes:

RAV is third rail light metro - not Bombardier's Skytrain, but similar. 

Automation technology is independent of the propulsion technology. LRT can be automated, but would still have to be in an exclusive Right-of-Way to avoid hitting cars. SNC-Lavalin's alternate proposal proposed a hybrid system that could be manually operated on No. 3 Rd - but was rejected because the cost was too high (the bids were for a "DBOM" contract covering design, build, operate (LRT has drivers!) and maintain).

Cambie was chosen because it has more passenger destinations within the City of Vancouver than Arbutus does. The Arbutus Right-of-Way is owned by the CPR and would need to be purchased. The Arbutus Right-of-Way is also being reserved by the City of Vancouver for an expansion of the False Creek streetcar. The "creme de la creme" caused the Arbutus Right-of-Way to be rezoned by the City of Vancouver to prohibit an elevated rail line along it. Cambie also provides a more direct route to Richmond - remember the line is chiefly the Richmond line - the Airport component is a spur. 

After RAV was defeated at the Translink Board, the City of Vancouver made it known that it would not even consider an at-grade down Cambie Street option due to traffic interruption. That caused some board members (who were holding out hope for a cheaper alternative) to change their votes. 

The "Cambie Heritage Boulevard" is fiercely protected by heritage advocates in the City of Vancouver (as well as the City of Vancouver itself). 

The SNC Lavalin bid for RAV places the tunnel under the northbound roadway - not under the median. There is also a large BC Hydro line under the median that would require costly relocation if an at-grade or trench or cut and cover option were used in the median. The only place where the median will be impacted will be at the 64th Ave portal - but the curb lanes will be removed to create new greenspace to compensate.

Bombardier's rejected bids avoided tunneling south of 49th Ave. since it proposed an open trench in the median (with a bored tunnel north of that). Its bids were higher than SNC-Lavalin's bids, so it was rejected.

By going with SNC-Lavalin's bid, we got more tunnel at lower cost than Bombardier's open trench. That's because SNC-Lavalin lowered costs with the shallower cut and cover construction and with precast tunnel segments. 

WRT Millennium Line ridership, here's an excerpt from Translink's May 9, 2005 board report indicating Spring 2005 daily ridership at 59,1000 versus projected 2006 daily ridership of 75,000 (which assumed the Coquitlam line was operational in 2006). Spring 2003 ridership was 43,900-44,900 - a sizable increase over 2 years. 
The Millennium Line was built to shape growth, not serve existing growth.


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## crazyjoeda

ssiguy2 said:


> I know there are some driverless subways but the RAV is going down a low density road.........single family if you can beleive it.
> Translink is throwing good money after bad.


May I remind you that expo line was built along a less dense corridor and it has lead to massive development around each station so much so that the Expo line alone now carries close to 1million people a week. Look at the construction along M-Line in just the last few years that it has been running. You can guaranteed that by 2020 several dozen highrises will be built along Cambie, I think Oak Ridge will become like anouther metro town.


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## mr.x

crazyjoeda said:


> May I remind you that expo line was built along a less dense corridor and it has lead to massive development around each station so much so that the Expo line alone now carries close to 1million people a week. Look at the construction along M-Line in just the last few years that it has been running. You can guaranteed that by 2020 several dozen highrises will be built along Cambie, I think Oak Ridge will become like anouther metro town.


Oakridge will for sure turn into another Metrotown, and hopefully they will tear down the whole Oakridge complex and build something new and spectacular (better than Aberdeen) with a bigger shopping centre, more parking (but only either underground or stacked), a lot of condos, and office towers - note that all of this is in site, not off site).


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## officedweller

I predict mid-rises for Oakridge (10-15 stories max). 

The City of Vancouver is (overly) sensitive to neighbourhood concerns regarding densification and I don't see it changing its approach drastically. i.e. Broadway & Commercial is not densely developed for fear of disrupting the neighbourhood. The City of Vancouver has only allowed significant rezoning and densification where industrial lands have been converted to residential (Joyce & Main Street) or high tech office (VCC, Renfrew & Rupert). In any other City, there would be a forest of highrises at a transit node like Broadway & Commercial - in the City of Vancouver they've prevented it - possibly fostering the decline that plagued/plagues the area. 

I can also see the rental walk-ups along Cambie between 16th and King Ed replaced by Arbutus Lands type developments - 6-10 storey blocks. I think Olive (and Pacifica before it) are representative of what will be built. 

Richmond will densify, and already has some plans for the Bridgeport Station area. There are also a number of developments planned for No. 3 Rd (Acqua, Paloma).


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## jer4893

No one is thinking here. Yes, it it a lot of money, but skytrain is expensive. ssiguy2, you say that Van and Richmond are growing at only 0.8% per year but what, isnt that a current stat? What a stupid thing to bring up! Do you not think that with a city holding the olympics, our population will not grow? Or for another example, our new convention centre will alone be hosting 20,000 more people per week. Or what about the fact that planned expansions of the airport are underway. A direct link to the airport to downtown is VITAL! Would you rather have a freeway down the Cambie corridor? Not going to happen. What about a LRT system that would work well in other cities, but terribly in Vancouver? No, what a waste of money! Or would u rahter stick to what we have now, a unbelievably terrible road system that will just get worse and worse wiith the growth of the city. No one is thinking about Vancouver's future! It is said (and i agree) that van has had terrible planning in the past. Well RAV will relieve that immensly. Stop comparring RAV to millenium. Millenium DOSE NOT have a connection with an airport! Cutting a ribbon in front of a skytrain may look good on a camera, but its ridiculous to think that when we ALREADY HAVE skytrain, we would go and build something totally different. I do not think RAV is perfect. There are many flaws that can and should be changed. For instance, instead of people getting RAV thrown away, how about we do something smart for a change and demand gates in the terminals. Isn't that was DO RAV RIGHT is for?


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## ssiguy2

First, 70,000/passenegers a day by 2012 is AWFUL ridership! Why? because 30,000 oif those passengers will not be new. They are redirectingy all the downtown routes to go via RAV. The heavily used Granville#9 route will be diverted over to the RAV so it will take people in Marpole {the only med-hi density area} LONGER to get downtown than it does now. 
Second, they are using it for a Richmond Commuter line not for Vancouverites. If they were they would have a stop at 16th. But no, its a whopping 16 blocks between stations. If you said to anyone in any other city that you were building a $1.8bil line "rapid Transit" and have 16blocks between ststion in the city they would think you were nuts. 
Second, Cambie Street has a lot of poplitical power base. The city agreed that no further hi density development would be allowed along the whole stretch. It is NOT like the EXPO line that primarily followed the rail line and could be rezoned. There will not be ANY highrise develpoment along the Vancouver stretch. 
Third, $1.8bil for 70,000 passengers?.........Lets say it someday hits 100,000 passengers well that still lousy ridership. Calgary's CTrain has 42km, 220,000passengers/day, {same as SkyTrain} serves a population half the size and has only cost $640mil {that's MILLION not BILLION}. It goes to major employment centres and is BETTER for people in the inner city as it has many more stops. 
Fourth, Richmond will never have the same density as Metrotown because of the height restrictions on buildings due to the airport. 

RAV is a great idea perse but the cost is ouitrageous for 40,000 passengers a day. Like I said, even if it hits 100,000 that is still lousy ridership. 
If they really need something to do with their money it should be ext the Millenium line to Dunbar as it is a high density area. 

Translink always gets things ass-backwards. You build rapid transit for the city not the suburbs and then work your way out. SkyTrain is, in many ways, just very frequent commuter rail.


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## officedweller

Couple of things - 

There's no station at 16th because it's not technically feasible. The slope is too steep. If you require a station there with a long flat platform, the station at King Edward would have to be a lot deeper to lessen the grade between the stations - that would also make a station at 33rd Ave. too deep and too expensive (since it's solid rock there). The current proposal includes a shallow future station at 33rd Ave., which is slated to get a new bus route to UBC. Besides, with all the complaints of disruption at Cambie and 16th, do you really think the area businesses would tolerate the additional disruption for a cast-in-place station? 

As for densification on Cambie, Oakridge is going to be densified - not necessarily in tall highrises, but it will still be denser than it is now. Info is available at this link:

http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/commsvcs/currentplanning/oakridge/index.htm

A link to the broader Oakridge-Langara policy from the late 1990s is also at that link.

49th Ave. station is up in the air for densification. I could see townhouses (there's already a townhouse complex on the SE corner).


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## ssiguy2

On a different note. I understand that SNCLAVALIN got the contract and will NOT be SkyTrain tech. Does anyone have a photo or link of the new rail cars?


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## jer4893

70,000 passengers per day is based on what? That stat is most likely excluding major events that i have already talked about. You continuously use ideas from present day for instance the fact that it would be longer for commuters that take Granville9. RAV wil not be completed over night. It will be in 2009 when those Granville9 busses will be gridlocked in traffic along with every other commuter. 

Now you say the fact that RAV isn't for Vancouverites? Many routes will be cancelled and diverted to the Richmond end of RAV. Well, its the same thing on the other side! Plus, the downtown end of RAV is connected to Millenium! People living in Burnaby may use RAV to either get to the airport or Richmond. I did some research and found out the major destinations in Vancouver and Richmond for Airport users. Guess what, RAV goes where ever they want to go and that includes the Cambie corridor. So, the people comming in; using RAV will leave using RAV. Do people in Vancouver not comumute to Richmond and the airport? Hmm i didn't know that was true. Saying that the line is not for people in Vancouver is definately not true. 

Cambie will most likely be developed. With a big mall, many businesses and a college, i'm sure it will. Plus, that means even more users of the line. 

It is not fair to compare RAV with CTrain. RAV is rapid transit. CTrain is a slow ass slug. Rapid transit is expensive. LRT is cheap. Rapid transit would work excellent in Vancouver, Airport and Richmond. LRT wouldn't do the job and would probably even make matters worse. 

Calgary's ridership is not 220,000. It is more around 190,000. CTrain pays out MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars per year for operational costs, operational costs that rapid transit dosn't have. Also, CTrain covers a more broader area while both skytrain routes mainly jut out to more specific areas. Do not compare the two, especially when Vancouver, Richmond and the Airport can't handle LRT. 

Richmond will get denser. I think many people will agree with me when i say that height is not a requirement when it comes to density. Just look at all of the apartments that are going up there... and there will only be more. 

Finally, RAV is not only about Richmond and Vancouver. Greater Vancouver MUST think as a unit if we want to move forward in the future. It will also lead to many other project such as extending the line to other areas that are rapidly growing and possibly even a ferry terminal at the airport since there will be such a good connection there.


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## jer4893

Lavalin had participation in every single skytrain project in the past. What is so different now that they had been awarded the contract?


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## mr.x

ssiguy2 said:


> On a different note. I understand that SNCLAVALIN got the contract and will NOT be SkyTrain tech. Does anyone have a photo or link of the new rail cars?


They haven't released renderings of the new rail cars.......but here's Manila's automated LRT built by SNC Lavalin in 1998:



















and London's automated DLR:

















Credits: queetz.


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## mr.x

jer4893 said:


> Lavalin had participation in every single skytrain project in the past. What is so different now that they had been awarded the contract?


They are in charge of building and designing this line 100%. The other two lines in the city were automated linear technology, this time around it's third-rail.


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## jer4893

I cannot picture those in Vancouver. Hopefully it is more like the one in london (DLR).


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## mr.x

jer4893 said:


> I cannot picture those in Vancouver. Hopefully it is more like the one in london (DLR).



But of course, the trains would look a lot better. Definetely a lot more aerodynamic, somewhere along the lines of the Mark II and NYC's Air Train.


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## jer4893

Well, that's not that bad at all.... looks good.


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## zivan56

I would think that the design will be close to that of the current MK II skytrains, so as not to differ greatly from the current trains in service. I am personally glad that there wont be a station on 16th, as it will probably bring more crime; unless they install gates.


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## mr.x

zivan56 said:


> I would think that the design will be close to that of the current MK II skytrains, so as not to differ greatly from the current trains in service. I am personally glad that there wont be a station on 16th, as it will probably bring more crime; unless they install gates.


That's NIMBY thinking. What if everybody around those 18 stations are thinking that too?

I'm dissapointed that there isn't a station at 16th avenue. It would attract more ridership there. It doesn't make sense to have such a huge gap between the Broadway and King Edward Stations.


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## mr.x

jer4893 said:


> Well, that's not that bad at all.... looks good.


Airtrain

























Only in difference between the Airtrain would be that there could be a connection between the two trains like the Mark II's we currently have.


Mark II SkyTrain


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## EastVanGuy

^ I hope we get something simmilar to the middle rendering, it looks similar to the current Mk II


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## zivan56

mr.x said:


> That's NIMBY thinking. What if everybody around those 18 stations are thinking that too?
> 
> I'm dissapointed that there isn't a station at 16th avenue. It would attract more ridership there. It doesn't make sense to have such a huge gap between the Broadway and King Edward Stations.


Do you live around 16th? If so, you would realise crime is now already ridiculously high. I have had my car broken into 2 times last year, and no, I do not keep junk in it, and do leave the trays open. The average break in night consists of a min of 10 cars being broken into in a protected parkade. Furthermore, it is statistically proven that crime is higher near all skytrain stations. 
There is a gap, albeit small. It takes less than 10 mins to walk from 16th to Broadway, and about 15 to King Edward. The Cambie bus will still run, and it takes less than 2 mins to get to Broadway...


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## ssiguy2

Apparently it will NOT be SkyTrain technology. 
Although the trains will be smaller it will be more like a standard heavy rail subway technology. They didn't go with Bombardier SkyTrain because, while the cars and trains maybe shorter than say TTC, they will be just as wide. 
I talked to someone at RAV project and they said they wanted wider cars due to having so many people airport bound with luggage and they didn't think even the MK11 were appropriate. 
It will be similar in tech to Atlanta's Metro, automated but standard heavy rail.


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## EastVanGuy

Does anyone know when renderings of the trains will come out or when the first trains will arrive in vancouver


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## ewh1

mr.x said:


> They haven't released renderings of the new rail cars.......but here's Manila's automated LRT built by SNC Lavalin in 1998:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and London's automated DLR:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Credits: queetz.




Those are NOT the Automated Trains in Manila... 

This is










Also The MRT-3 Wasn't built by SNC Lavalin only LRT-1 was


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## Nutterbug

officedweller said:


> Couple of things -
> 
> There's no station at 16th because it's not technically feasible. The slope is too steep.  If you require a station there with a long flat platform, the station at King Edward would have to be a lot deeper to lessen the grade between the stations - that would also make a station at 33rd Ave. too deep and too expensive (since it's solid rock there).


They can bore the tunnel and curve it into an 'S' formation to reduce the grade, can't they?


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## mr.x

Nutterbug said:


> They can bore the tunnel and curve it into an 'S' formation to reduce the grade, can't they?


They probably could, but they're on a tight budget.


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## mr.x

EastVanGuy said:


> Does anyone know when renderings of the trains will come out or when the first trains will arrive in vancouver


The renderings and design should be coming out later this year or at the latest, early next year. Vehicle testing starts in May 2008 and full service testing will begin in September 2009, three months before the line opens for service.


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## mr.x

zivan56 said:


> Do you live around 16th? If so, you would realise crime is now already ridiculously high. I have had my car broken into 2 times last year, and no, I do not keep junk in it, and do leave the trays open. The average break in night consists of a min of 10 cars being broken into in a protected parkade. Furthermore, it is statistically proven that crime is higher near all skytrain stations.
> There is a gap, albeit small. It takes less than 10 mins to walk from 16th to Broadway, and about 15 to King Edward. The Cambie bus will still run, and it takes less than 2 mins to get to Broadway...


I'm sorry. Even though I have no idea what it feels like to have your car broke in, twice, this is still NIMBY thinking. Keep in mind that NIMBYs have really stunt growth in our region. No offence, nothing personal towards you. Keep in mind that Translink will have an army of armed transit policemen on the trains soon and that RAV will either have turnstiles when constructed or will be built in a way so turnstiles can be built in in the future.


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## mr.x

ssiguy2 said:


> Apparently it will NOT be SkyTrain technology.
> Although the trains will be smaller it will be more like a standard heavy rail subway technology. They didn't go with Bombardier SkyTrain because, while the cars and trains maybe shorter than say TTC, they will be just as wide.
> I talked to someone at RAV project and they said they wanted wider cars due to having so many people airport bound with luggage and they didn't think even the MK11 were appropriate.
> It will be similar in tech to Atlanta's Metro, automated but standard heavy rail.


I heard that too. From a RAV report early last year, they said the vehicles would be 3 metres wide. That's huge as we all have to remember that the Mark II's are just over 2 metres. And RAV will have three vehicles trains, each train having a capacity of 170 people. Compare that with the MkII's which can each hold 140 people.


How about something like this, NYC's Airtrains:











EDIT: The RAV spur line to YVR is also designed as the airport people mover.


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## ssiguy2

Well, I must admit that's good news. 
I wonder how they managed to get federal funding without using their favorite Quebec company, Bombardier.


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## Nutterbug

ssiguy2 said:


> Well, I must admit that's good news.
> I wonder how they managed to get federal funding without using their favorite Quebec company, Bombardier.


1. Chretien's gone.

2. SNC-Lavalin is also based in Quebec.


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## officedweller

The RAV trains won't be very long, so the extra width will definitely help with capacity. 

As for a "s" curve (i.e. switchbacks), that would also require additional property acquisition, because it would divert under privately owned land, would increase maintenance costs, reduce speeds and increase travelling time. 

The Broadway station platform will really be centred on 10th Ave - so that's not that far from the commercial area - it may even encourage redevelopment of the blocks between 12th and 16th - i.e. there's a strip mall in there. The station will definitely have an entrance to Broadway - to connect with buses, but I'm not sure though whether there will be a south entrance - hopefully there will be. The City also owns the lot north of City Hall, so there will likely be an entrance from the south eventually, if not when the line opens.


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## ssiguy2

They will probably make allowances or build into the system knowing the Millenium line will get there so it will have to be an easy interchange.


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## crazyjoeda

I hope that RAV will have shorter cars with a higher frequency, unlike Toronto which has really long trains but you have to wait 15 miniutes or more for a train sometimes.


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## Roch5220

crazyjoeda said:


> I hope that RAV will have shorter cars with a higher frequency, unlike Toronto which has really long trains but you have to wait 15 miniutes or more for a train sometimes.


Um, no, GO trains non-peak run every hour. So commutter train wise, RAV takes it. RAV frequencies are more like the TTC subway, where non peak trains run 4-5 minutes (assumming no backloging happens - ie, you'll have to wait for a train, but then they come in droves), which is why RAV is a hybrid commutter/rapid transit line.


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## ssiguy2

GO is more like WCE and SkyTrain is the same as SRT. 

Interesting, Mumbai is thinking of develpoing a new mass transit.......SkyBus.


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## EastVanGuy

ssiguy2 said:


> GO is more like WCE and SkyTrain is the same as SRT.
> 
> Interesting, Mumbai is thinking of develpoing a new mass transit.......SkyBus.


where did u find this out?
would it be like skytrain, but only on rubber tires, or actual busses on an elevated guideway?


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## Roch5220

ssiguy2 said:


> GO is more like WCE and SkyTrain is the same as SRT.
> .


I agree, but don't forget that SRT services primarily suburban as well.

I hope they use MKII (simiar in style) as they look very sleek. The airtrain (airport) line in NYC doesn't look like it will age well and are not as attractive of MKII.


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## mr.x

Can the trains on the existing SkyTrain lines be longer than the Mark II's?


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## ssiguy2

The MK11 are not only sleeker looking but brighter, wider, smoother, and quieter.......they are light years ahead of the MK1.


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## hkskyline

June 15, 2005
*TransLink helps customers travel to Sea Vancouver*
Corporate Press Release

Sea Vancouver – a maritime festival that runs from July 6 to 10 – is expected to attract thousands of people. To help ease traffic headaches, TransLink will provide extra transit services for customers travelling to the event.

Customers are advised that since the festival is expected to be well attended, it’s best to plan your transit trip ahead of time and allow for a little extra travel time due to the crowds.

Most of the festivities will take place at two locations: the Creekside site, which encompasses Concord Pacific Place and Creekside Park, and the Maritime Point site at Kitsilano Beach Park and the area around the Maritime Museum.

Here are some of the ways to get to and from the event:

*Coast Mountain Bus service*
To help customers reach the festival’s Maritime Point site for tall ship viewing, Coast Mountain will offer a #22 Special bus service to Kitsilano Beach Park and the Maritime Museum via Cornwall Avenue. The #22 Special will provide direct service from SkyTrain’s Waterfront and Burrard stations and from the SeaBus and West Coast Express terminals at Waterfront Station.

This special service will be in addition to the regular #22 bus service. The two routes combined will provide a bus every five to seven minutes throughout the festival. On Thursday, July 7, from 11 a.m. to 2:30 p.m., that frequency will increase to every four to five minutes during the Parade of Sail in English Bay.

In addition, bus routes #s 3, 8 and 19 will provide regular service via Main Street to the Creekside Park festivities, including the Boat Show and Marine Swap Meet.

*Connecting with Sea Vancouver shuttles*
The festival will operate its own free shuttle buses (yellow school buses) on two routes between the two main festival sites. Customers using the #22 Special will have to walk in and out from Cornwall Avenue. Coast Mountain buses will be equipped with bike racks and Sea Vancouver will offer bike checks during the festival dates.

*SeaBus service*
SeaBus, which is operated by Coast Mountain Bus Co., will run its usual summer passenger ferry service to and from Waterfront Station. SeaBus departs every 15 minutes during peak periods and every half hour during non-peak periods on weekdays and weekends. From Waterfront Station, passengers can connect to SkyTrain to reach the Edgewater site or board a #22 Special bus to reach the Maritime Point site.

*SkyTrain service*
SkyTrain service will be augmented at peak times to get customers to and from several sites. People can take SkyTrain to Main Street-Science World Station for easy access to the festival’s Creekside Park activities. In addition, customers can travel to Stadium Station to attend performances at the Edgewater Stage at the Plaza of Nations. To access the Maritime Point site, customers can take SkyTrain to Burrard Station and then board the #22 Special or the regular #22 to Cornwall Avenue.


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## ssiguy2

Why would they have the line end at Stanley Park as opposed to going down Denman to English Bay? This is why Translink gets such low ridership, they use it for point to point travel as opposed to going thru dense areas. 

Just to add to wasted money, why would they have that ext down the industrail area when its right beside the SkyTrain? They should have one going straight down Hastings, one of the few dense roads and connecting roads to downtown. They could also having it go down to Hastings and then turn onto Commercial to Broadway station. Commerical is a dence neighbour with VERY high transit ussage.


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## officedweller

The streetcar is a City of Vancouver initative, not a Translink one (so the objective isn't to replace Translink services, but provide alternate services). 
The City also has its own pet projects and sensitivities. It's probably sensitive to congestion on Denman with the addition of a streetcar down the middle. The extension down the False Creek Flats is one of the City's pet projects - the newly rezoned Finning Lands will be Vancouver's own suburban style business park (along with similarly rezoned lands at Renfrew and Rupert M-Line stations). That's also why the City requested that the M-Line terminus be north of VCC rather than under Broadway (RTPO agreed since it was also cheaper).

*******************
The Vancouver Sun today has an artilcle about YVR's future plans. It talks about the self service check-ins. 

The article says that ALL RAV stations will have self service airport check-ins. I don't know if that was a mistake and they mean all YVR stations or whether it does mean all stations along the line.


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## EastVanGuy

i think that there should be a streetcar line up Main street because there is already good ridership on that corridor


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## KGB

" In Vancouver Skytrain is auto and can have trains running every 45seconds (only for events). Iv used Toronto's subway during rushhour and I had to wait between 5-15 minutes for a train every time. Compared with Skytrains automatic system where the rush hour wait is pretty consistent at 2min and none peak hour is 5 the most you will ever wait is 8min."


That's ridiculous...TTC subways run every 2 minutes during peak times (which is a lot of the time), and 4-5 minutes the rest of the time. If you waited 15 minutes for a train, then there was an emergency, otherwise, there is NO way it could even be possible. The trains are big, because a lot more people ride them....and run very frequently ALL the time, because a lot more people ride them ALL the time.

Yea...the Skytrain runs every 45 seconds...uh huh....given the ridership, that would give every person their own private train. LOL






KGB


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## Wallbanger

I havent been here for very long but I have noticed that you always have something to bitch about.


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## EastVanGuy

June 16, 2005
Upcoming TransLink Board Meeting


Here are some of the newsworthy items and reports on the agenda for the June 22 meeting of the TransLink Board of Directors:

Golden Ears Bridge – Master Agreement
Staff is seeking authorization from the board to enter into a five-party agreement with the Township of Langley, District of Maple Ridge, District of Pitt Meadows, and City of Surrey in relation to the Golden Ears Bridge Project. The agreement would define the scope and standards of the project and establish the responsibilities and obligations of all parties.

Parking Tax Bylaw
The board will be asked to approve a bylaw that is required to enable the creation of a parking site roll. When the parking site roll has been completed, this bylaw and a final determined tax rate will be forwarded to the Greater Vancouver Regional District for ratification. The tax will help finance major transportation improvements approved as part of TransLink’s 2005-2007 Three-Year Plan and 10-Year Outlook. 

Recent Trends in Travel Characteristics: Analysis of the 2004 Greater Vancouver Trip Diary Survey
The report summarizes the results of the Trip Diary Survey that was conducted in cooperation with the Ministry of Transportation in 2004. Some of the key findings include:


Total daily trips made by Greater Vancouver Regional District residents grew from 5.5 million in 1999 to 6.4 million in 2004 – a 16.5 per cent increase.

Travel during the midday period (9:30 a.m. to 3:30 p.m.) grew significantly and accounted for 34.6 per cent of daily trips in the 2004 survey.

Trip patterns are more dispersed across the region. The growth in population and employment outside the urban core may account for the increasing complexity of people’s travel.

Transit Capacity Study
A recent Transit Capacity Study confirmed that customers are experiencing extreme levels of crowding on a number of bus routes throughout the region. SkyTrain service at Broadway Station is also at maximum capacity. To meet the demand, staff is proposing to accelerate bus purchases in 2006 and 2007 by advancing the delivery of 50 buses originally slated to arrive in 2008 and 2009. This would allow for additional hours of bus service to be introduced sooner. Staff is also recommending a study to investigate the feasibility of advancing the delivery date of 34 SkyTrain cars to 2008 from 2009.

Minor Fare Zone Amendments: Lions Bay, Annacis Island and Bowen Island
Staff is seeking authorization for minor amendments to the Transit Tariff to address fare-zone boundary anomalies between Lions Bay and West Vancouver; Annacis Island and Delta; Bowen Island and West Vancouver. The proposed changes would lower transit fares and offer some potential for slight increases in local ridership.

2005 Capital Program Projects: Specific Project Approval
The board will be asked to provide Step 2 Specific Project Approval for the following capital projects:


$350,000 for a study to determine the suitability of using automatic passengers counters to measure demand on all modes of transit. The counters are currently being installed on 15 per cent of the bus fleet and the study will assess the benefits of expanding the technology to SkyTrain, SeaBus, West Coast Express and Community Shuttles.

$400,000 for repairs to mitigate problems with soil settlement at Scott Road Station. The money would also go towards developing an ongoing monitoring and maintenance program.

2004 Schedules of Financial Information
Staff will present the 2004 Schedules of Financial Information, which outline the remuneration and expenses paid to or on behalf of TransLink employees and payments to suppliers for goods and services. The public can view the schedules or purchase a copy for $5 once the board has approved them.

First Quarter 2005 Transit System Ridership
Transit ridership increased by 1.5 per cent during the first four months of 2005, matching TransLink’s budget projection. The growth reflected gains in U-Pass ridership, new ridership attracted by bus service improvements, and increased transit use due to higher gas prices, although the January fare change had a temporary dampening effect on the growth.

http://www.translink.bc.ca/About_TransLink/News_Releases/news06160502.asp


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## KGB

"I havent been here for very long but I have noticed that you always have something to bitch about."


If you plan on being here for a longer time, do yourself a favour...focus on the topic...not on unsolicited insults of forumers. Besides...I'm not the one bitching...the person who complained about TTC subways having 15 minute headways was....I just refuted their claims.





KGB


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## vanboyH

The only pessimists I see on this thread are those opposing RAV the way it is.

It's either "get-it-done-with-now-before-the-Olympics" or wait until after the Olympics. By then, it might be too late. Why delay it some more?

The RAV Official Rant on Discover Vancouver's forum is a place where I stated my opinions on the RAV.


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## sukh

Vancouvers downtown is not that small in area, its borderline, its pretty large...think about it from lets say B.C. Place stadium to the entrance of Stanley park, from gastown to yaletown, its pretty large, and a street car is a smart idea, not all people want to walk those distances.

About the Inner city transit, Of course Vancouver is going to go into the suburbs, thats where most of the population is(also alot less nimbys), unlike Calgary which doesnt basically have any suburbs, just a city with 900 000 plus, so it makes sense for them in that way...plus if all the suburbs are connected, it makes for a much better transit system and a extensive one as well. You can get anywhere you want fast, and not be stuck in traffic and take so much more time. It takes me 15 minutes to get to metrotown from scott road station in Surrey, and with a car it would take me approximetly 30-45 mins.



> That's ridiculous...TTC subways run every 2 minutes during peak times (which is a lot of the time), and 4-5 minutes the rest of the time. If you waited 15 minutes for a train, then there was an emergency, otherwise, there is NO way it could even be possible. The trains are big, because a lot more people ride them....and run very frequently ALL the time, because a lot more people ride them ALL the time.
> 
> Yea...the Skytrain runs every 45 seconds...uh huh....given the ridership, that would give every person their own private train. LOL


Someones bitter.


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## rt_0891

sukh said:


> Vancouvers downtown is not that small in area, its borderline, its pretty large...think about it from lets say B.C. Place stadium to the entrance of Stanley park, from gastown to yaletown, its pretty large, and a street car is a smart idea, not all people want to walk those distances.


Except for NIMBYs, I think most people do support the streetcar proposal.


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## rt_0891

micmiko said:


> The only pessimists I see on this thread are those opposing RAV the way it is.
> 
> It's either "get-it-done-with-now-before-the-Olympics" or wait until after the Olympics. By then, it might be too late. Why delay it some more?
> 
> The RAV Official Rant on Discover Vancouver's forum is a place where I stated my opinions on the RAV.


I think the biggest problem people are worried about is the costs that will be incurred when ridership falls below expectations, and Translink ends up picking up the slack. If Vancouver city council had enough clout to ignore the NIMBYs and immediately densify the Cambie corridor & surrounding areas, and/or keep RAV as above-grade Skytrain to minimize costs, then no one would really be worried about RAV. One of the success of Skytrain is its ability to create high density neighbourhoods within the immediate vicinity, and if planning does not permit this growth around RAV, then it would be a big loss for the region.

The only effective way I can think of that would weaken the NIMBY's grasp on city council is to merge cities, possibly Vancouver+Burnaby.


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## Nutterbug

ssiguy2 said:


> Why would they have the line end at Stanley Park as opposed to going down Denman to English Bay? This is why Translink gets such low ridership, they use it for point to point travel as opposed to going thru dense areas.


Maybe it's because Stanley Park is a more famous tourist attraction than English Bay, and Vancouver is a city that's very much geared towards tourists.



ssiguy2 said:


> Just to add to wasted money, why would they have that ext down the industrail area when its right beside the SkyTrain? They should have one going straight down Hastings, one of the few dense roads and connecting roads to downtown. They could also having it go down to Hastings and then turn onto Commercial to Broadway station. Commerical is a dence neighbour with VERY high transit ussage.


The Hastings corridor is too long for streetcar to be suitable. It is better suited to rapid transit.


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## Wallbanger

KGB said:


> "I havent been here for very long but I have noticed that you always have something to bitch about."
> 
> 
> If you plan on being here for a longer time, do yourself a favour...focus on the topic...not on unsolicited insults of forumers. Besides...I'm not the one bitching...the person who complained about TTC subways having 15 minute headways was....I just refuted their claims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KGB


Im not insulting you, If you cant take a little criticism then maybe you shouldnt have brought it on yourself. No one is stepping forward to tell you you need to lighten up, because you seem to have a history of it.


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## officedweller

The streetcar will indeed be geared very much to tourists - it will connect a lot of the tourist destinations - Vanier Park (Vancouver Museum) - Granville Island - Science World - Gastown - Canada Place - Stanley Park, plus BC Place - Yaletown

Since the route is quite circuitous (RAV will be much faster crossing the Creek and ends up at the same place - Canada Place/Waterfront) - commuters would likely use the streetcar to feed into RAV and the Expo Skytrain. Tourists would ride the whole loop all the way around the Creek.


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## crazyjoeda

KGB said:


> Yea...the Skytrain runs every 45 seconds...uh huh....given the ridership, that would give every person their own private train. LOL
> 
> KGB


Ever been to the Sun Run or the Celebration of Light? Translink has the capability to run trains at 45sec intervals. Of course this is not routinly used and on a normal rush hour there is a 2-3min wait. As I said before in Toronto I usally waited 5-10min for a train and at one point waited 15min, this is not an insulte to the TTC and is due to the fact that the Toronto subway has been in place for along time and is not an automated system.


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## Roch5220

^I don't think anyone here is out to offend you but obviously you are insulted. Take it from the people that ride it ALL the time, and not one off instances. I've waited occasionally 4-5 trains before getting on at Pape st, but thats not the norm. I've had to walk home because their was a jumper, but that definately isn't the norm.


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## Roch5220

officedweller said:


> Since the route is quite circuitous (RAV will be much faster crossing the Creek and ends up at the same place - Canada Place/Waterfront) - commuters would likely use the streetcar to feed into RAV and the Expo Skytrain. Tourists would ride the whole loop all the way around the Creek.


It would be optimal if they actually were able to bring the streetcar stops into they skytrain stations (ie. within an enclosed area not physically in) to provide for easy transtion/connections. Part of the attractiveness of the streetcar for commutters would be the easy flow. But that would probably add costs (decrease attractiveness) but would be planning properly for the future (ie., once ridership grows and warrants better improvements, this would be difficult and more expensive to realign).


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## KGB

"If you cant take a little criticism then maybe you shouldnt have brought it on yourself."


What excactly is it you are criticising...the fact that I correct someone's innaccurate claims of headways on TTC subways? If you have something against the truth, I suppose you might not like that. LOL








"Translink has the capability to run trains at 45sec intervals."


Yea, but if has no need to run every 45 seconds, except for a few events, then it really doesn't matter. Headways have to be reasonably frequent if people are going to even consider it for mass transit, but 2 minutes is very frequent, and it doesn't matter if there's a driver or not.

The YUS line runs on 2-3 minute headways 6 hours of the day, and 4-5 minute headways the rest of the time...not just for "events". There's no 10 minutes or 15 minute headways, so if you are going to continue to say there is, then you are just wrong.





KGB


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## officedweller

I think the streetcar will primarily run on the street, with typical streetcar platforms. There may even be some sections that are single tracked - not sure. But there are only 4 stations that the streetcar will eventually hit: 

RAV 2nd Ave - that could be well integrated because the streetcar ROW is away from the street and land next to the ROW could be consolidated with the station development. 

Expo Main Street - unlikely since the streetcar route and Expo Line are at right angles to each other. Probably a walk across the street to connect.

RAV Yaletown - streetcar will be in Pacific Blvd median - and RAV station entrance will be half a block away. Preliminary plans showed a ventilation shaft at the median near the streetcar stop - so potentially there could be a connection from RAV up to the median. 

Expo Waterfront - streetcar will probably be in the middle of the street in front of the station - easy connection. It could also be at the curb - since that's at the point where the route will probably transition to 2 one-way couplets through Gastown (eastbound on Cordova, westbound on Water). But I think it would be easier getting to Stanley Park if they staying in the middle of the street (which would also be farther from townhouse front doors further west).


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## ssiguy2

It should NOT go to StanleyPark but EnglishBay. You build transit lines to serve the passengers not the touristy area. That is where you get the ridership and it would also be better for EnglishBay events if want to serve the tourists. Serve the people who use the system not the few who want to get to a park and won't walk 3 blocks. 

BTW, KGB.........What's a YUS?


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## crazyjoeda

*I heard that the street car will have its own right of way in some places. 

BTW did has any one heard the full plans for the NE LRT? Apparently along strech will be under ground(yellow line on below map) and it will be grade seperated most of the way. When it does meet traffic it will automaticly change the lights so the train can go through with out stopping. 
*


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## Nutterbug

What about the Robson St. corridor? Why has it been neglected in the streetcar plans? It is like the main NW-SE corridor within the downtown peninsula, and connects major points of interest, such as the stadiums, the library, the Yaletown district, the Robson RAV station, the downtown core, Robson Square, the art gallery, the Robsonstrasse shopping district and the West End. Maybe it should have a line that'll bend and head SW along Denman towards the beach.


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## rt_0891

*RAV LINE OPEN HOUSES • JUNE 2005*

Opportunity for Community Input on Preliminary Design of RAV Line Stations (Richmond and Vancouver)

Public Open Houses are being held to gather community input on preliminary design options for the RAV Line stations in Richmond and Vancouver as well as the Operations and Maintenance Centre. The cities of Vancouver and Richmond will also have materials for public review regarding the areas adjacent to stations.

In addition to RAVCO’s June public consultation program, InTransitBC (the company selected to design, build, operate, maintain and partially finance the Line) will undertake further public consultation in conjunction with the Design Advisory Process, beginning in Fall 2005.


Open House Schedule – June 2005
June 22 6:30-9:30pm Vancouver Open House
Holiday Inn 1110 Howe & Helmcken, Vancouver

June 25 10am-1:00pm Vancouver Open House
Plaza 500 12th & Cambie, Vancouver

June 25 2:00-5:00pm Richmond Open House
Richmond Inn Conference Centre 7551 Westminster Highway, Richmond

June 27 6:30-9:30pm Richmond Open House
Radisson President Hotel 8181 Cambie, Richmond


The RAV Line is a significant element in the Greater Vancouver’s regional transportation network, and will provide additional transportation capacity equivalent to 10 arterial road lanes in a dense corridor where expanding roads and bridges is neither practical nor desirable. This additional capacity will address congestion and make growth in these centres more manageable,
boosting our cities’ livability, sustainability and competitiveness.

The RAV Line will include 17 stations, and provision for three future stations located to serve the dense and growing neighbourhoods along the corridor and will connect with the existing Expo and Millennium rapid transit lines, WestCoast Express and SeaBus at Waterfront Station.

The Governments of Canada and British Columbia, the Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority (TransLink), the Vancouver International Airport Authority and InTransitBC are funding this project, which is also endorsed by the Cities of Vancouver and Richmond. RAV Project Management Ltd. (RAVCO) was created specifically to oversee procurement, design, construction and
implementation of the project.

For more information about the RAV Line:
Web: www.ravprapidtransit.com Email: [email protected]
Tel: 604.484-7287 Fax: 604.484-6799

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
*
June 16, 2005
Upcoming TransLink Board Meeting
*

Here are some of the newsworthy items and reports on the agenda for the June 22 meeting of the TransLink Board of Directors:

Golden Ears Bridge – Master Agreement
Staff is seeking authorization from the board to enter into a five-party agreement with the Township of Langley, District of Maple Ridge, District of Pitt Meadows, and City of Surrey in relation to the Golden Ears Bridge Project. The agreement would define the scope and standards of the project and establish the responsibilities and obligations of all parties.

Parking Tax Bylaw
The board will be asked to approve a bylaw that is required to enable the creation of a parking site roll. When the parking site roll has been completed, this bylaw and a final determined tax rate will be forwarded to the Greater Vancouver Regional District for ratification. The tax will help finance major transportation improvements approved as part of TransLink’s 2005-2007 Three-Year Plan and 10-Year Outlook.

Recent Trends in Travel Characteristics: Analysis of the 2004 Greater Vancouver Trip Diary Survey
The report summarizes the results of the Trip Diary Survey that was conducted in cooperation with the Ministry of Transportation in 2004. Some of the key findings include:

Total daily trips made by Greater Vancouver Regional District residents grew from 5.5 million in 1999 to 6.4 million in 2004 – a 16.5 per cent increase.

Travel during the midday period (9:30 a.m. to 3:30 p.m.) grew significantly and accounted for 34.6 per cent of daily trips in the 2004 survey.

Trip patterns are more dispersed across the region. The growth in population and employment outside the urban core may account for the increasing complexity of people’s travel.

*Transit Capacity Study
A recent Transit Capacity Study confirmed that customers are experiencing extreme levels of crowding on a number of bus routes throughout the region. SkyTrain service at Broadway Station is also at maximum capacity. To meet the demand, staff is proposing to accelerate bus purchases in 2006 and 2007 by advancing the delivery of 50 buses originally slated to arrive in 2008 and 2009. This would allow for additional hours of bus service to be introduced sooner. Staff is also recommending a study to investigate the feasibility of advancing the delivery date of 34 SkyTrain cars to 2008 from 2009.*

Minor Fare Zone Amendments: Lions Bay, Annacis Island and Bowen Island
Staff is seeking authorization for minor amendments to the Transit Tariff to address fare-zone boundary anomalies between Lions Bay and West Vancouver; Annacis Island and Delta; Bowen Island and West Vancouver. The proposed changes would lower transit fares and offer some potential for slight increases in local ridership.

2005 Capital Program Projects: Specific Project Approval
The board will be asked to provide Step 2 Specific Project Approval for the following capital projects:

$350,000 for a study to determine the suitability of using automatic passengers counters to measure demand on all modes of transit. The counters are currently being installed on 15 per cent of the bus fleet and the study will assess the benefits of expanding the technology to SkyTrain, SeaBus, West Coast Express and Community Shuttles.

$400,000 for repairs to mitigate problems with soil settlement at Scott Road Station. The money would also go towards developing an ongoing monitoring and maintenance program.

First Quarter 2005 Transit System Ridership
Transit ridership increased by 1.5 per cent during the first four months of 2005, matching TransLink’s budget projection. The growth reflected gains in U-Pass ridership, new ridership attracted by bus service improvements, and increased transit use due to higher gas prices, although the January fare change had a temporary dampening effect on the growth.

The TransLink Board meeting will take place at 9 a.m. on Wednesday, June 22, at the New Westminster Municipal Hall, 511 Royal Ave., New Westminster.


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## crazyjoeda

*A good map of the entire system in 2009*


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## Nutterbug

^ I say the branch of the RAV Line going towards Richmond Center should be called the Olympic Line. The one going towards the airport can be called the Canada Line.

If not, then the Olympic name should be given to the NES Line and not left to waste, though it wouldn't be very fitting, since there are no Olympic Venues in that region.


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## mr.x

Is it just me or does KGB somehow always likes to turn things that are positive for Vancouver into negative things.


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## Nutterbug

Does anybody else also think Willingdon Avenue in Burnaby, between Brentwood and Metrotown Malls, with BCIT inbetween, would be another good corridor to run a streetcar along?


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## KGB

"Is it just me or does KGB somehow always likes to turn things that are positive for Vancouver into negative things."


Can you be any more vague???

I'm not trying to "turn" anything. I just corrected some figures. I'm not the one trying to create some vague comparison of Skytrain and TTC subway frequencies, where Skytrains run every 45 seconds, and TTC subways run every 15 minutes. Who's the one making up stories here? Who brought up the anti-Toronto story here? How is correcting figures for TTC being negative about Vancouver?

I mean, I know you don't like it when anybody crashes the usual anti-Toronto parties, but start putting the blame where it belongs.




KGB


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## [email protected]

^ Exactly! Besides, mr X is just a 13 year old kid who does not know what he is talking about. He just bashed Toronto just for the hell of it even though its a far more superior city than Vancouver in terms of a lot of things but especially transit. What is there not to hate about Vancouver Transit, given that it is the single most contentious issue in the region. $1.7 billion on a single subway line under sparsely populated Cambie Corridor when an at grade or elevated system would do....honestly? WTF is that? Let the Westside Vancouver creme de la creme be damned! :down:


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## sukh

^lol you sound like queetz.


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## ssiguy2

I agree with Wally


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## mr.x

Wally said:


> ^ Exactly! Besides, mr X is just a 13 year old kid who does not know what he is talking about. He just bashed Toronto just for the hell of it even though its a far more superior city than Vancouver in terms of a lot of things but especially transit. What is there not to hate about Vancouver Transit, given that it is the single most contentious issue in the region. $1.7 billion on a single subway line under sparsely populated Cambie Corridor when an at grade or elevated system would do....honestly? WTF is that? Let the Westside Vancouver creme de la creme be damned! :down:


Somebody's gotta get new material, it's getting quite old and outdated................and maybe it's because he actually IS queetz.


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## mr.x

*Transit overcrowded: report*
PUBLIC TRANSPORT I TransLink urged to spend $50 million overnext three years

William Boei 
Vancouver Sun 


Saturday, June 18, 2005










CREDIT: Steve Bosch, Vancouver Sun 
Maxing out: TransLink is close to capacity in some key areas 





GREATER VANCOUVER I Overcrowding on parts of Greater Vancouver's transit system has hit unacceptable levels and TransLink should spend more than $50 million over the next three years to expand service hours and get new buses on the road faster, says a report to the regional transportation authority.

Ridership has grown by more than 20 per cent over the last three years while the transit fleet grew by only 10 per cent, "resulting in increases in the level of crowding and in the number of customer complaints," the TransLink staff report says.

Key pressure points are SkyTrain between the Main Street and Broadway stations, which is operating at 99-per-cent capacity at peak hours and leaving passengers on the platform, and the often crowded 98 and 99 B-Line bus routes.

"Over-all, there is a growing view that the transit system is at or nearing capacity at some key times and locations," the report says.

"This is most noticeable on SkyTrain and on major bus routes such as the 98 and 99 B-Lines and bus routes serving universities and colleges.

"SkyTrain service between Broadway Station and Main Street Station is at maximum capacity, resulting in passengers experiencing crowded trains or pass-ups."

The report recommends TransLink expand service hours by 83,000 hours next year, another 26,000 hours in 2007 and an additional 48,000 hours in 2008 for a cumulative cost of $27.5 million.

It also suggests TransLink accelerate delivery of 50 new buses, getting them into service over the next two years instead of during 2008-09 as scheduled. That will cost $25.7 million in the next two years, but new-bus costs will be reduced by a similar amount in 2008-09.

The report says TransLink should also find out whether it can have 34 new SkyTrain cars delivered in 2008 instead of 2009 as scheduled.

Transit ridership is at its highest level in history, having recovered and more since the 2001 transit strike, the report says.

A study conducted in 2003 and 2004 found 10 transit corridors, especially those serving Vancouver, Richmond and the two universities, are significantly overcrowded. Another 23 corridors were moderately overcrowded, and 25 corridors marginally overcrowded.

However, SeaBus ridership is down as a result of the 2001 transit strike and reduced tourist traffic following the 9/11 terror attacks. West Coast Express ridership is still growing but the commuter train has no overcrowding problems.

The service-hours expansion, if approved by the TransLink board on Wednesday, will be the third in quick succession. Bus service was expanded by 106,000 hours a year starting this year under a three-year service plan. And in April, the TransLink board okayed another 72,000 hours.

TransLink expects total ridership to increase by 12.1 per cent over 2004 by 2007. It's getting off to a slow start this year with growth at a 1.5-per-cent clip in the firsts four months, but another staff report said that's due to last year' s fare increase.

The fare hike resulted in more people using prepaid tickets and passes to save money. Cash fares are down by 12 per cent from last year, and are now used for only 22 per cent of transit trips. TransLink expects that trend to continue.

-- [email protected]

Maxing out: TransLink is close to capacity in some key areas

Last year, the TransLink system recorded some 275 million boardings, a 26-per-cent rise in ridership over 10 years earlier. Growth is attributed to the U-pass program, the new Millennium SkyTrain line, articulated B-line buses, higher frequency, and higher gasoline prices. SkyTrain riders above were among rush hour crowds Friday afternoon at the busy Commercial and Broadway station.

99%

Capacity utilization on SkyTrain's busiest stretch (Broadway Station to Main Street).

1,226

TransLink buses on the road in 2004. Overcrowding was found on 58 routes or corridors, mainly off peak.

2009

Year a third SeaBus will come into service. Ridership is well down from a peak of 535 boardings per hour in 1996.

1998

Biggest ridership year for the West Coast Express service. In four years out of the six since then, ridership fell.

Bus fleet upgrade: Shown below is number of buses to be added per year under recommended accelerated program, for a total of 220 new units.

2006: 55 (Existing plan: 25)

2007: 75 (55)

2008: 45 (70)

2009: 45 (70)

Source: GVTA planning department

© The Vancouver Sun 2005


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## KGB

That's not a very good position to be in....creating a transit mode and corridor that's over capacity for peak periods, and too little capacity off peak. 





KGB


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## ssiguy2

Its still good when it means higher ridership.
It is impressive that the SkyTrain is overcapacity considering that the trains run every 2 minutes in rush hour during those times. It is worth noting however that SkyTrain trains are simply to small. 
The new MK11, although far superior to the MK1 only represent the same capacity as 3 MK1 cars.........a pretty small train. Its only equivalent to 2 articulated buses. 
The platforms can easily accomodate 2 MK11 trains or 6 MK1s. 
The service frequency is excellent its the lack of trains that is the problem.


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## EdZed

What is the capacity of the MKII and MKI trains?


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## ssiguy2

BTW are those ridership number increases rider numbers or actual revenue ridership numbers. I know the UPass has been successful, which is great but they are extremly cheap so they probably make less on those rides then they did before it came in. 
Still a good idea thou because it helpss the students and it is proven that the younger the people start using transit the more likely they are to continue ongoing.


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## Haber

I think the fact that the Skytrain and Broadway B-Line buses are overcrowded is more reason to extend the Millenium line at least to Cambie. It would alleviate some of the traffic between Main St. and Broadway. Vancouver also needs some Rapid transit and rail system on the north shore. I think it would make a lot of sense to have a train that goes from Vancouver to Whistler. It could also serve Horshoe Bay and Squamish. Perhaps Vancouver should also consider congestion fees or car user fees like Singapore or London.


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## rt_0891

Contest to name the New NE sector line  (Now temporarily called Coquitlam Line) 

http://www.translink.bc.ca/Plans_Projects/Northeast_Sector/default.asp


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## rt_0891

* RAV-line fight goes to court*

Last updated Jun 20 2005 09:44 AM PDT
CBC News

VANCOUVER – A coalition of Vancouver residents and merchants opposed to the construction of the RAV rapid transit line from Richmond to downtown Vancouver is taking its case to B.C. Supreme Court Monday.

Do RAV Right says the planned cut-and-cover method of building the underground line along Cambie Street from 2nd Avenue to 63rd Avenue will destroy numerous businesses.

The group says there would be two to three years of major street closures, reducing vehicular traffic by as much as 50 per cent.

* LINK: Do RAV Right  

The group's lawyer, Joyce Thayer, argues there was no meaningful public consultation on the change from the discussed tunnelling method of construction.

"We say that has to go back to square one, and that the public is entitled to be provided with all of the information about why the change was made, and be able to make submissions as to why it should not be accepted," she says.

* LINK: Letter from Do RAV Right, detailing its objections (pdf)  

RAVCO, which is building the line from Richmond will also be in court along with TransLink, to argue why the line should go ahead using cut-and-cover construction.


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## ssiguy2

I hope they stop the RAV, Translink has lied from start to finish.


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## EdZed

This is turning into a big shiraid(sp?), either build it the right way or don't building it at all.


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## Vancouver_rocks

Translink didn't lie. Somehow I knew it was going to be cut-and-cover long ago. It's Do Rav Right that's lied with their stupid "environmental" concerns where they made up that there's contaminated soil. It's been proven that there isn't. Originally they didn't want it down Cambie but down Arbutis, then they didn't want cut-and-cover because of the businesses on Cambie, then they didn't want cut-and-cover because of the "environmental" conerns, and when that was shot down they've gone back to whining about the businesses. They sound like a bunch of the usual whiners to me that are opposed to any progress.


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## zivan56

Considering there is already a corridor in the middle of Arbutus, which will not cause almost any delays during construction; it is a far better choice. You will see the chaos extending from downtown Vancouver up to Cambie due the a huge ditch being dug in the middle of one of the busiest streets in Vancouver. Between 16th and KE, there will always be virtual gridlock due to the narrow nature of the street in that location.


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## Nutterbug

zivan56 said:


> Considering there is already a corridor in the middle of Arbutus, which will not cause almost any delays during construction; it is a far better choice.


It's a bit of a roundabout route to Richmond, and there are hardly any points of interest along the way (eg. hospitals, QE Park, Langara College, City Hall, Oakridge Mall, etc.). Ridership will be lower if built that way.


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## rt_0891

*Rush 'hour' now lasts five**
Study underscores need to increase transit capacity, TransLink boss says*

William Boei
Vancouver Sun

Tuesday, June 21, 2005

Greater Vancouver's afternoon rush "hour" lasts nearly five hours now, almost an hour longer than in 1999, a survey of regional travel patterns has found.

The TransLink trip survey suggests the region's transportation system can't handle more growth in peak traffic loads, and it shows more people are travelling in off-peak periods to try to avoid the rush.

TransLink chairman and Surrey Mayor Doug McCallum said Monday the study underscores a need to increase transit capacity. TransLink will vote Wednesday on a plan to accelerate the purchase of new buses and possibly new SkyTrain cars.

The study produced travel records for more than 11,000 individuals in nearly 5,000 households to paint a picture of regional travel patterns.

"The amount of travel has increased significantly, causing more congestion and delays to commuters," says the report by TransLink strategic planning and policy director Clive Rock.

"The rush hour periods are continuing to spread to other parts of the day.

"The typical p.m. rush hour period has increased by almost one hour from 1999 to 2004 and it now lasts close to five hours."

A graph in the report shows the afternoon rush now gets under way shortly after 1 p.m. and continues past 6 p.m. The morning rush has not spread out nearly as much and lasts from about 7 to 9 a.m.

The report doesn't make recommendations. It says the data should help with assessing the effectiveness of the region's transportation system, identifying emerging issues and helping with long-range planning.

It will be presented Wednesday to TransLink's board of directors with a recommendation to forward it to municipal governments, the regional district and the provincial and federal ministers of transportation.

The TransLink trip survey is conducted every five years.

From 1999 to 2004, the report says, the region's population grew by 5.9 per cent to 2.13 million with much of the growth in the outer suburbs.

The number of private vehicles rose by 12.5 per cent to 1.29 million -- 3.3 new vehicles per hour.

Employment rose by 13.4 per cent, with the growth also concentrated in the outer municipalities.

"With only a minimal increase in road space over the years, increased vehicle ownership together with population and job growth places enormous pressures on the region's transportation system," the report says.

The number of trips people make per day -- walking, cycling, driving and riding transit -- rose by 16.5 per cent over the five years to nearly 6.4 million trips per day.

Half of new office jobs created in the last 10 years have gone into office parks in the outer municipalities, the report says, while only seven per cent have gone into the region's designated growth centres.

"The predominant suburb-to-downtown commuting that some other cities experience no longer exists in this region, and has not for quite some time. Instead, people travel from everywhere to everywhere.

"The dispersed nature of trips is more difficult to serve by transit and will increase traffic congestion."

With total trips up 14.6 per cent to 6.4 million a day, more people are travelling between rush hours, the report says. The survey found 34.6 per cent of trips now occur between 9:30 a.m. and 3:30 p.m.

Transit's share of daily trips grew from 10.3 per cent to 10.8 per cent.

While that's only half a percentage point, it represents an increase of 30 million "revenue rides" from 126 million in 1999 to 156 million last year.

"We're seeing huge increases in ridership," McCallum said. "It's certainly the largest [increase] in Canada and one of the largest in major cities in North America.

"We really need to accelerate the purchase of buses and SkyTrain cars."

Walking trips represented 11 per cent of the total and bicycling trips 1.7 per cent.

[email protected]

- - -

In 2004, afternoon rush hour in Greater Vancouver started just past one and didn't end until after six. That's a one-hour increase from five years before and nearly twice the 1994 duration.

Starts: Shortly after 1 p.m. Ends: After 6 p.m.

1999: 4 hours

1994: 2.5 hours

PEAK HOURS CHANGE OVER THE COURSE OF A DECADE:

SITUATION IN 2004

Morning peak 8 a.m. 700,000 trips start per hour

Rush begins: 400,000+ trips start/hr

Afternoon peak 3 p.m. 600,000 trips start per hour

CHANGING SIZE OF P.M. PEAK, '94-'04

Expanded p.m. rush-hour detail at left shows how a decade ago, it took until well past 2 p.m. before afternoon rush hour

started. That is a point reached when more than 400,000-plus start their trips each hour.

SOME SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS FOR THE REGION'S COMMUTERS:

25.9%

Share of all trips made during p.m. peak

3.3

Extra vehicles registered in GVRD per hour, 1999 to 2004

1.29

Vehicles registered in Greater Vancouver region, 2004

600

Vehicles per 1,000 people in 2004

570

Vehicles per 1,000 in 1999 and 1994

Source: GVRD

© The Vancouver Sun 2005


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## rt_0891

Translink GV Trip Daily Survey: http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/board_files/meet_agenda_min/2005/06_22_05/4.4tripdiary.pdf


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## vanboyH

_I hope they stop the RAV, Translink has lied from start to finish._

If RAV doesn't commence construction now, I doubt there will be a link from Richmond-Vancouver until at least 2014. 

I don't really expect $400 million from the Feds if they don't build it now and instead delay to until after the Olympics. By then, there will be moaning about the cost of the whole thing along with a LOT more traffic.


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## rt_0891

*It's on TransLink's bill so it's TransLink's show Regional transportation body to spend about $400m on PoMo-Coquitlam line*

By Diane Strandberg
The Tri-City News
Jun 18 2005

The new Port Moody-Coquitlam LRT line will be TransLink's baby, say TransLink officials.

This is going to be a traditional public project. TransLink will own it and run it," said Ken Hardie, spokesperson for the regional transportation authority.

Thursday, during a media event to highlight the need for public comment on the new line, Trasolini and Kingsbury said the project was long overdue and the Tri-Cities have waited almost 20 years for a rapid transit line.

It's kind of a milestone for me," Kingsbury said of the first joint press conference on the new LRT line. Kingsbury said he watched Surrey and Burnaby get SkyTrain and wondered when the Tri-Cities would get its own rapid transit system.

Meanwhile, at least one TransLink official is looking forward to the construction of the line from Burnaby to Coquitlam Town Centre through Port Moody. Bob Paddon, who lives in the Tri-Cities, attended the press conference and is TransLink's vice-president of corporate and public affairs. He noted that TransLink is spending more on the Tri-City line than it is on the RAV (the Richmond-Airport-Vancouver) line - $400 million compared to $300 million.

We're the major funder on this," he said. In contrast, RAV is being built with funding from the provincial government, private corporations and the airport.

Cost estimates for Port Moody-Coquitlam LRT range from $750 million to $800 million, with $130 million coming from the province. Paddon said the rest of the money is likely to come from a combination of debt financing from operating costs, federal gas taxes and possibly direct federal funding. He said the final construction costs won't be known until the technical details are worked out, possibly by next spring.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
*
Time key issue for LRT line*

By Diane Strandberg
The Tri-City News
Jun 18 2005


The short timeline for building light rapid transit to Coquitlam is one of the project's biggest hurdles, says the woman in charge of technical engineering for the $800,000 LRT line.

Sheri Plewes, vice president of capital management and engineering for TransLink, said she's not worried about the prospect of digging a tunnel under Clarke Road.

It's competent soil," she said. From a tunneling perspective, it's not a technical challenge."

What worries her is the four-year construction time-line. There's a lot of work to do in that short period of time," she said.

TransLink has given itself until 2009 to complete the project to have it running in time for the 2010 Winter Olympics. The other challenge is to get people to buy into the project, which had a controversial beginning, with many critics calling for SkyTrain.

At a kick-off celebration for a contest to name the line at Coquitlam Centre Thursday, TransLink officials and Tri-City mayors sported My Rapid Transit 2009" buttons and asked the public to comment on station design and other details for the project.

During the next several weeks, TransLink's community relations team will visit events and locations in Coquitlam, Port Moody, Burnaby and Anmore to ask people to fill out comment sheets and suggest names for the system. The contest concludes July 31.
Plewes said the community consultation program is a key part of the strategy to build ridership on the line and move people out of their cars. Station access, location and even landscaping are important to make sure LRT is convenient, she said. We really want that input so people will be compelled to use it," she said.

The public information will be compiled along with technical and engineering data to determine the final details and cost of the project, expected by next spring.

Friday, Coquitlam and PoMo mayors and councillors were to visit Portland for a close look at that city's three-line system, which connects to three towns, the airport and the Expo Centre. Bikes are allowed on Portland's MAX system and many of the cars are low-floor and accessible vehicles, like those that will be used for the Tri-City line.

Coquitlam Mayor Jon Kingsbury said the day-long tour will give other councillors a chance to look at the technical and operation requirements of an LRT line. We'll be looking at what's different, what's important and things to watch for," said Kingsbury, who will be accompanied on the tour by councillors Barrie Lynch and Louella Hollington.

For more information on TransLink LRT events and times, go to www.translink.bc.ca/Plans-Projects/Northeast_Sector.

----------------------------------------------------------------------


*
PoMo puts in station wish list*

By Diane Strandberg
The Tri-City News
Jun 18 2005


Port Moody wants to tweak" the location of proposed LRT stations in the city and possibly add a fourth stop in Glenayre so residents will have easier access to the Coquitlam light rail transit line.

PoMo councillors passed a motion Tuesday to appeal to TransLink for the changes after a staff report pointed out the planned LRT line will have three stops in the city while the current 97B bus has six. The report recommended a fourth station at the bottom of Clarke Hill, where the light rail cars emerge from the portal.

But Coun. Meghan Lahti said that wouldn't help Seaview or Glenayre residents, and convinced her colleagues to support a station at Glenayre instead, even though it would be costly to build in a tunnel and lengthen trip times for Coquitlam residents.
Coun. Gerry Nuttall said he was told a Glenayre station would be too far down" and too expensive" at $1.5 million to $2 million. They weren't prepared to consider that," he said.

But Mayor Joe Trasolini said the cost impact would be minimal compared to the total cost of the project.

He later said TransLink has been informed of the proposed changes, which also include moving the Queen Street station closer to the base of Clarke hill, to accommodate Port Moody secondary school students, and moving the Moray street station closer to Ioco Road, to accommodate NewPort Village residents.

But Coquitlam Mayor Jon Kingsbury said addition of the Glenayre stop is unlikely given the late timing of the request and the cost of building a tunnel station.

We have an $800 million project," Kingsbury said. We don't have a nickel more."


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## crazyjoeda

micmiko said:


> _I hope they stop the RAV, Translink has lied from start to finish._
> 
> If RAV doesn't commence construction now, I doubt there will be a link from Richmond-Vancouver until at least 2014.
> 
> I don't really expect $400 million from the Feds if they don't build it now and instead delay to until after the Olympics. By then, there will be moaning about the cost of the whole thing along with a LOT more traffic.


 :bash: 

You’re a moron. RAV is the most important transportation project on the table its essential, inevitable and the cost is only going to go up if we wait. Cut and cover is the cheapest and most efficient way of building it, the businesses along the route that are protesting it can suck it! Once the line is built the property value will be higher and the businesses will get way more customers. 

By the way RAV has already been committed for 2009, so it will be built.


----------



## ssiguy2

LRT is more affordable and a better option than SkyTrain. they should, however, have the line going the way it is now but then go to Douglas Station first and then end at Coq.Centre. It would be a far easirer expansion into PoCo as it would then be on the rail ROW to downtown PoCo and eventually MapleRidge.


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## zonie

Will LRT really be a long-term solution for the Coquitlam line? I am thinking capacity could be reached far too quickly.


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## rt_0891

^ I doubt ridership levels will ever be adaquete for anything other than LRT until Coquitlam's city centre densifies & grows.


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## ssiguy2

The LRT will be fine. Look at the Millenium Line and what incredible poor ridership levels they are getting.


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## zonie

Millenium Line is only a few years old, and ridership is growing. Also consider the amount of towers being built up around the line, and I think it'll continue growing strongly. If Coquitlam builds in the same way (I don't know if they plan to), then an LRT might not cut it for much more than a couple decades. I think making it part of the Skytrain backbone of the transit network might be a better choice, and extend with LRT from there.


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## vanboyH

crazyjoeda said:


> :bash:
> 
> You’re a moron. RAV is the most important transportation project on the table its essential, inevitable and the cost is only going to go up if we wait. Cut and cover is the cheapest and most efficient way of building it, the businesses along the route that are protesting it can suck it! Once the line is built the property value will be higher and the businesses will get way more customers.
> 
> By the way RAV has already been committed for 2009, so it will be built.


I'm sorry, are you talking to me? I'm for building the RAV line now, with what's already proposed and approved.

I should have used quotes, I guess I'm more used to italics. I was quoting ssiguy2 with his "I hope they stop the RAV, Translink has lied from start to finish.".


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## ssiguy2

Vancouver simply doesn't have the density for this kind of RT. Sorry but 220,000 passengers a day for $2.4bil is really shitty when comp[ared to Calgary's CTrain with the same ridership, less rail, half the population for only $640. 
I shudder to think what Translink could have done with that extra $1.8bil. We wouls have LRT and Commuter Rail all over greater Vancouver and much higher transit ridership as it has the lowest of the 5 largest metro areas in the country per-capita.


----------



## zonie

M-Line last year was at 48,000 (or 59,000) boardings per weekday depending on how you look at it, up 34% from the 2003.

Perhaps this was revised at some point, but here's the original Skytrain-LRT comparison:



> SkyTrain:
> 
> * estimated ridership of up to 5,900 riders in peak direction
> 
> * estimated 2,600 new riders
> 
> * capital costs of up to $840 million ($75 million per kilometre)
> 
> * annualized cost of $4.30 per passenger
> 
> * travel time 12.7 minutes
> 
> * operating speed 51.5 km/h
> 
> * perceived drawbacks: negative visual and community impact; cost above available funding
> 
> Light Rail:
> 
> * estimated ridership of up to 2,600 riders in peak direction
> 
> * estimated 2,100 new riders
> 
> * capital cost of up to $670 million ($59.5 million per km)
> 
> * annualized cost of $6.95 per passenger
> 
> * travel time 20.9 minutes (via St. Johns and Barnet)
> 
> * operating speed 31.6 km/h
> 
> * perceived drawbacks: traffic impacts; cost slightly above currently available funding
> 
> * positive contribution to air quality


And this report http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/board_files/meet_agenda_min/2004/10_15_04/4.1attacha.pdf is calling for the following capacity:



> 5.5 Operating Capacity
> The system will deliver a capacity that exceeds the forecasted peak hour demand at
> the maximum load point on the line by 15%. The maximum capacity delivered will
> be no less than:
> 2010: 2,500 passenger spaces per hour per direction at the maximum load point
> 2021: 3,500 passenger spaces per hour per direction at the maximum load point
> 5.6 Ultimate System Capacity
> The system must be designed to be capable of accommodating 9,000 passengers per hour
> per direction at the maximum load point on the line in the future.


From those numbers, it looks as if LRT would be at capacity from day 1.

And the capital cost savings don't look very good compared to the operating costs, though I'm guessing these figures aren't too accurate.


----------



## zonie

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but CTrain is having more capacity problems.


----------



## ssiguy2

Yes, they are having capacity problems which they are addressing with more CTRain car orders. They are also in the process of extending the stations to handle 4 car trains. 
Translink SkyTrain is at capacity but that is because the cars are so small. The MK11 are smaller trains as they only are the equivalent of 3 MK1. 
3 MK11 cars are approx the length of Toronto's subway trains. 
The Millenium Line has cost $1.1 bil and many of those higher ridership numbers are due to transfers onto the SkyTrain not new revenue passengers. 
For just 60% of the cost of the Mileenium Line Calgary's CTrain has managed to get ridership numbers 5 TIMES higher. 
Looks like a pretty shitty investment to me.


----------



## [email protected]

ssiguy2 said:


> Vancouver simply doesn't have the density for this kind of RT. Sorry but 220,000 passengers a day for $2.4bil is really shitty when comp[ared to Calgary's CTrain with the same ridership, less rail, half the population for only $640.
> I shudder to think what Translink could have done with that extra $1.8bil. We wouls have LRT and Commuter Rail all over greater Vancouver and much higher transit ridership as it has the lowest of the 5 largest metro areas in the country per-capita.


Great minds think alike. RAV is a farce and frankly, the most idiotic thing Greater Vancouver and the province of BC has ever embarked on. And the $1.8 billion price tag is solely the fault of those creme de la creme NIMBYs who don't want to see a train high above their homes! And now the Cambie NIMBYs don't even want a cut and cover since its "cheaper". WTF is that all about? 



mr.x said:


> Somebody's gotta get new material, it's getting quite old and outdated................and maybe it's because he actually IS queetz.


I don't know who Queetz is but isn't he the guy you had a hilarious debate over at the old Highrise Canada forum? For all, check out the funny thread I bookmarked... :hilarious

http://s4.invisionfree.com/Highrise_Canada/index.php?showtopic=5


----------



## zonie

Well if you're just going by riders/dollar spent, then I think Ottawa's is one of the best transit systems there is, likely beating Calgary. If that's all there is to it, then I guess BRT is the answer?

Long-term capacity is a valid concern in my opinion.


----------



## crazyjoeda

ssiguy2 said:


> The LRT will be fine. Look at the Millenium Line and what incredible poor ridership levels they are getting.


I think M-line was built wrong but it is hardly a complete waste. RAV should have been built first but the Millenium line doesn't get bad ridership levels at all. In fact I heard it gets some where in the neighbourhood of 70,000 riders a day, less then the 125,000 the Expo line gets but ridership is growing and so is development around the stations. 




> I'm sorry, are you talking to me? I'm for building the RAV line now, with what's already proposed and approved.
> 
> I should have used quotes, I guess I'm more used to italics. I was quoting ssiguy2 with his "I hope they stop the RAV, Translink has lied from start to finish.".


Sorry I didn't understand that you were quoting SSIGUY2.


----------



## mr.x

Wally said:


> Great minds think alike. RAV is a farce and frankly, the most idiotic thing Greater Vancouver and the province of BC has ever embarked on. And the $1.8 billion price tag is solely the fault of those creme de la creme NIMBYs who don't want to see a train high above their homes! And now the Cambie NIMBYs don't even want a cut and cover since its "cheaper". WTF is that all about?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know who Queetz is but isn't he the guy you had a hilarious debate over at the old Highrise Canada forum? For all, check out the funny thread I bookmarked... :hilarious
> 
> http://s4.invisionfree.com/Highrise_Canada/index.php?showtopic=5




Hello queetz.


----------



## npinguy

crazyjoeda said:


> I think M-line was built wrong but it is hardly a complete waste. RAV should have been built first but the Millenium line doesn't get bad ridership levels at all. In fact I heard it gets some where in the neighbourhood of 70,000 riders a day, less then the 125,000 the Expo line gets but ridership is growing and so is development around the stations.


I agree.

Brentwood/Gilmore has developed into a high-rise neighborhood almost as impressive as Metrotown. And there's dozens more construction projects.


Rupert/Renfrew haven't had much increase in density YET but the lots are there, and the demand is there, and they will. 


Once the coquitlam LRT is connected the M-line will be linked with Coquitlam and Poco.





All these things, plus the inevitable extension of M-line to at the very least Cambie makes me think it in no way whatsoever was a waste.


----------



## sukh

^ Yeah exactly, they should of finished it when they started building it, and obviously we think many years ahead when building these kinds of transportation projects, that LRT wouldnt cut it here in the future.


----------



## rt_0891

*TransLink approves parking tax*
You'll pay more as businesses pass on costs to customers

Frank Luba
The Province

Thursday, June 23, 2005

TransLink's approval yesterday of a new parking tax means businesses will have to pay more for transportation improvements.

About $20 million will be raised annually by the new tax, with about five per cent being paid annually to the B.C. Assessment Authority to maintain the parking rolls and pay for the appeals process.

Business has never liked the tax but John Winter, president of the B.C. Chamber of Commerce, tried to be optimistic yesterday about the tax going toward TransLink's $1.9 billion 2005-2007 spending plans.

"Let's hope we begin to reap some of the benefits of it in the short term rather than the long term," he said.

One of those benefits was approved yesterday.

The purchase of 50 more buses for $25.7 million will be moved up to 2006 and 2007 instead of 2008 and 2009.

Winter is convinced the tax will end up being paid by customers.

"In many cases, perhaps most cases, they will be passed on to the consumer," he said. "It could have an inflationary impact.

"If it's a mall, it will be passed on to the tenant, who in turn will pass it on to the end user."

Board member David Cadman didn't have a lot of sympathy for businesses balking at the tax.

"The retail sector consistently says they are opposed to it but they are consistently in favour of us improving public transit, specifically the RAV project," said Cadman, a Vancouver councillor. "You can't have it both ways.

"You can't say, 'We want improvements, put RAV in, but don't ask us to pay for it, ask the riders to pay for it, ask the homeowner to pay for it.'"

Homeowners are already paying higher taxes to TransLink, and transit fares went up Jan. 1.

The parking tax begins in 2006.

Maple Ridge Mayor Kathy Morse was the only board member to vote against it.

"Mostly it's because I struggled with the equity of charging everybody the same rate," said Morse.

She objected to the way the tax will be imposed, with a shopping centre in an area with limited bus service being charged the same $30 or so per stall as another mall with more frequent bus service and rapid transit.

[email protected]
© The Vancouver Province 2005


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## mr.x

*Free-fare zone needed downtown: city report *
Last updated Jun 23 2005 03:22 PM PDT
CBC News 


CBC NEWS – A report prepared for Vancouver city council has recommended a series of sweeping changes, including the elimination of bus fares in the downtown core. 

The Vancouver and UBC Transit Plan also calls for changes to the practice of charging more for short trips across existing transit zone boundaries. 

LINK: City transit report (pdf) (Large 234-page file – 11.89 MB) 

There's also a call for expanded bus service. The report says TransLink should establish new routes along 33rd Avenue, Cambie Street and Renfrew – from Hastings to McGill.

It also says bus lanes are needed along Broadway. 

Vancouver city council will discuss the report at a public hearing next Wednesday, and decide whether the report should be endorsed and forwarded to TransLink. 

Bus Riders Union spokesperson Beth Grayer welcome the suggestions of fare reductions, but says the politicians need to take the proposal further. 

"While that's great, that we really do need free zones," she says. "What we need more than anything is either a free zone for the entire system or a lower fare that people can actually afford." 

Grayer says the fare reductions could easily be paid for if TransLink scrapped the $1.7-billion RAV rapid-transit line between Richmond and Vancouver.

--------------------------------------------------

I think this is a great idea.


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## rt_0891

^ Excellent idea. Portland also has a no-fare zone downtown & it's worked quite well.


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## ssiguy2

The CTrain in downtown Calgary is also free. 
Would it only be certain routes? ie Davie/Robson


----------



## [email protected]

I'm lazy so I'll just repost what I said in the Canada section with regards to the free fare zone.

Portland also does not exactly submit to the whims of the creme de la creme that results in skyrocketing construction costs to our rail lines. Perhaps this is why our MAX LRT is heralded as one of the best in the continent for it is built based on sound planning, not politics. This can be seen in its extensiveness to reach more people, a large impact in rejuvinating run down neighborhoods, and has successfully created transit malls and transit oriented development.

Plus Portland does not exactly demand its suburbs to pay and subsidize transit improvements that only benefits the inner city. Given that Translink is a regional transportation authority, why should Vancouver have a free fare zone while other town centers in the GVRD does not? Perhaps if Vancouver were to form its own transit authority instead of relying on some poor shmoe in Maple Ridge to pay for a subway line that he will never use, then you can have a free fare zone all you like within your city boundaries.


----------



## Nutterbug

Wally said:


> Plus Portland does not exactly demand its suburbs to pay and subsidize transit improvements that only benefits the inner city. Given that Translink is a regional transportation authority, why should Vancouver have a free fare zone while other town centers in the GVRD does not?


I assume there's a special tax on those who own property or run businesses within the affected area to pay for it. Is that not how it works over there?


----------



## [email protected]

^ A large chunk of Tri Met's funding is from payroll tax while the rest are from fares, federal and state grants. I do know that there are actually tax exemptions for building transit oriented developments in the city.


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## Nutterbug

Wally said:


> ^ A large chunk of Tri Met's funding is from payroll tax while the rest are from fares, federal and state grants. I do know that there are actually tax exemptions for building transit oriented developments in the city.


I imagine there would be an extra tax specifically on those who own property in the free transit area, most likely an extra levy slapped onto their property taxes or something.


----------



## rt_0891

Wally said:


> Plus Portland does not exactly demand its suburbs to pay and subsidize transit improvements that only benefits the inner city. Given that Translink is a regional transportation authority, why should Vancouver have a free fare zone while other town centers in the GVRD does not? Perhaps if Vancouver were to form its own transit authority instead of relying on some poor shmoe in Maple Ridge to pay for a subway line that he will never use, then you can have a free fare zone all you like within your city boundaries.


I'm curious, since Tri-Met serves three counties, does each county raise their own funds to subsidize/fund transit improvements that benefit their own area/county?



Wally said:


> ^ A large chunk of Tri Met's funding is from payroll tax while the rest are from fares, federal and state grants. I do know that there are actually tax exemptions for building transit oriented developments in the city.


This is the missing link in Translink's funding puzzle. Translink needs access to income tax revenue...the feds/province should cut their own income taxes and pass it down to the cities. Also, the level of public transportation grants up here in Canada is way less than the US. This has to change.


----------



## [email protected]

^ All Tri-Met counties generally have the same level of service and is covered by the main rapid transit system and because of the way the revenue is raised, its a much more equitable solution. And given that a large chunk of revenue are from payroll and most of the employment center in Portland are in the downtown area, its only rightfully so that there is a free zone since the downtown workforce has more than paid for their share of the transit services. 

But in the GVRD, it is clear that there are numerous areas are much more disadvantaged than others. For example, half of the expenditure on Translink's $4 billion plan benefits mainly the city of Vancouver and yet most of the GVRD residents don't live with that city. Also, the tax dollars raised are far more from the suburbs, as well as it is there where the growing employment centers are. 

North Shore is a good example of this inequity. Because of the high value of their homes, they pay a large proportion of the property tax revenue. And yet that area has so little service improvements. Richmond on the other hand, generally pays less and has had a poor track record on developing transit oriented development and yet they reap a large chunk of the rewards. And let me remind you again that the sole reason why RAV is so expensive is because of demands by a segement of the city of Vancouver's population to tunnel, the creme de la creme, and yet people from Maple Ridge still have to pay for their outrageous demands.

And one more thing I notice in the US is most if not all mega projects go through an actual vote. So whether the project is a cheap useless BRT corridor or a $2 billion monorail system, the fact of the matter is Americans do have a choice and the outcome is purely a result in exercising that choice. In Greater Vancouver, it seems the public's opinion to justify support for RAV is based on a casual survey in a mall. :|


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## crazyjoeda

No fare downtown would be so great! Portland is an excellent example. Downtown residence must pay higher tax for it though.


----------



## rt_0891

*Council to vote on fare-free downtown zone*

Jennifer Miller
Vancouver Sun

Friday, June 24, 2005

City council will vote on recommendations for a complete review of transit fares and a fare-free zone for downtown Vancouver after a public hearing at city hall Wednesday evening.

The recommendations, made by city engineers, are over and above proposals in a draft plan for transit in Vancouver over the next five years. A fare review cannot be included in the plan because it would apply to all regions, not just Vancouver.

Called the Vancouver and UBC transit plan, it is a joint effort between the city and TransLink, with input from the Coast Mountain bus company, the University of B.C. and a public advisory committee. Part of the plan is to give buses more priority on city streets, and a pilot project is proposed for the Broadway corridor.

Any fare review or free travel would have to be approved by TransLink, whose officials have "shuddered" at the idea so far, said Coun. Fred Bass, who was on two advisory committees that contributed to the plan.

He said in an interview Thursday that letting riders travel for free downtown would help buses move faster because there would be no delays while people pay their fares.

It would also encourage more people to leave their cars at home instead of fighting for limited parking downtown, he said.

"If you can very efficiently move people short distances and you have a steady flow of people getting in and out of the buses, then in fact the overall payoff to the flow of the city...may be enormous."

The idea comes from other locations that offer free transit. Portland's "Fareless Square" includes most of downtown, and Belgium recently made commuter trains free.

The suggestions for a fare review include changes so people who cross zone boundaries even though they travel short distances wouldn't have to pay so much, said Bass, adding that he would also like to see an end to fare increases every few years.

The transit plan going to council Wednesday includes new strategies to reduce transit travel times for the busiest bus route in the city -- the Broadway corridor. Designated bus lanes, technology that adjusts the length of traffic lights to accommodate buses, and getting people on board faster are part of a proposed pilot project for the congested area.

"The system has become quite inefficient," said John Schnablegger, a city engineer and co-author of the transit plan report. There has been a decline in reliability and travel times, especially on Broadway, he said.

The No. 99 B-line and the No. 9 bus routes carry about 60,000 transit riders along Broadway every day -- and according to city projections, overall B-line boardings are expected to increase by 40 per cent over the next five years.

To help keep the buses moving along the thoroughfair, curb lanes should become designated for buses during rush hour, Schnablegger said. But he said he doesn't know how much this might improve travel times, since those lanes are already used mostly by transit vehicles.

"Between the No. 9 and the B-line service, I mean, they pretty well own those curb lanes," he said.

So far, there is no plan to remove parking in those lanes during off-peak hours, but it might be considered in the future as ridership continues to increase.

"If you're going to have a serious bus system...then you have to give priority to transit vehicles," said Bass. "It's very simple."

To help reduce waiting times at lights, technology on the B-line buses would extend a green light or turn a light green sooner so buses don't have to stop at intersections. This is already being used on Granville Street for the No. 98 B-line, said Schnablegger.

Getting riders on board faster is also expected to speed up travel times. The pilot project includes allowing passengers to get on through all doors, not just the front, and a proposal for new payment technology called smart-cards that would deduct fares electronically without passengers even having to take the card out of their pockets, he said.

All-door boarding is already taking place on the B-line because there are so many riders, but inspectors would be added to check fares and make the practice more formalized.

Parts of the Broadway project, such as keeping lights green for buses, could begin within a matter of weeks and the route is a "test ground" for other areas in the city that need help moving transit along, Schnablegger said. The transit plan identifies Hastings Street, 41st Avenue, Main Street and Burrard Street as other hot spots for delays.

[email protected]
© The Vancouver Sun 2005


----------



## ssiguy2

I think that free zones downtown are great, especially considering how high the fares are in Vancouver. 
Vancouver says its one zone is cheaper than Toronto's which is true. The reality thouh is that the TTC serves ALL of the city of Toronto. This means the original city plus the inner suburbs {ie NorthYork,Scar, E.York,Eto} while Vancouver's does not. 
If Vancouver was to serve the same area it would be the equivalent of Zone 1&2 making it a hell of an expensive system considering its poor service quality compared to the TTC. 
Therefore, if the downtowners can get a break then I say great.


----------



## Nutterbug

To give you a little perspective


----------



## en

I don't think a fare-less zone is a good idea, downtown has way too many bums/drug dealers/addicts etc.

SkyTrain is already a free ride to spread crime all over the place

What they really need is automated fare gates in SkyTrain stations!!


----------



## bs_lover_boy

en said:


> I don't think a fare-less zone is a good idea, downtown has way too many bums/drug dealers/addicts etc.
> 
> SkyTrain is already a free ride to spread crime all over the place
> 
> What they really need is automated fare gates in SkyTrain stations!!


I totally agree to this, this is the MOST effective way to prevent DRUGGIES!!!


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## arashi_1987

I was actually thinking about this same thing the other day I was in downtown Vancouver...why would I pay a 1zone fare from Waterfront to Granville?? It's simply not worth it. Some stations in other countries have "tunnels" or underground malls that take you quite far from the actual station (for free).

And for those automated gates...I'd love to see them but Translink is gonna have to do A LOT of changes to their ticket systems...For those who buy tickets it's fine but...what about for the majority of the people [i am assuming] who use monthly passes, U-Pass, and other forms of passes...?? How are they supposed to ge through a automated-machine with those ?? Remember there are no staff at work in most stations to "check" those passes.

While I am at it, I think I am going to criticise about Vancouver's transit.

- Infrequent buses [in suburbs]
- FARE BOXES on buses are 'retarded'...can put in only 1 coin at a time?? And still they count wront!!! [one time I was on a community bus and put in $1.50 for 1 zone...and the screen reads: $4.10...wow thanks...I wonder where that can take me to] Please, do something about that!!! 
*In Japan the Bus fare boxes lets you put all the coins in into a slot and counts the amount you put in (error free) in 1 second.
- SKYTRAIN 1: if all the announcements say is next station is: ***, then why bother. Add in some interchange informations...like...change here for 99B or...change here for Expo Line to Surrey...
- SKYTRAIN 2: What's the point of having the Millenium Line overlapping the Expo Line from downtown to New West?? Say you are at Lougheed Station and trying to go to Waterfront...One's first instinct must be to board the train to 'Waterfront' and not "Commercial Drive" then change trains, which is actually the quicker way. (My parents still get confused even after a few years the new line came to service)
* By the way, if this is going to remain, please make clearer announcements as to where the train is actually heading: Commercial Drive or King George. Put an electronic sign in front of the train itself...make an announcement BEFORE the train doors actually open (right now the announcements say "Expo Line to...King George" after you have sat down confortably on the trains)

I have one good thing to say though: Sky train is quite efficient, automated and quite fast...


----------



## zonie

Yes, the fare boxes, which are fairly new, are one of the worst Translink expenditures of recent times.

I don't think they'll be fully replaced anytime soon though. But at least it sounds like they're perhaps considering augmenting the system with automatic passive passes... I guess RF tags? Currently, it slows down boarding a bit too much.


----------



## en

arashi_1987 said:


> * By the way, if this is going to remain, please make clearer announcements as to where the train is actually heading: Commercial Drive or King George. Put an electronic sign in front of the train itself...make an announcement BEFORE the train doors actually open (right now the announcements say "Expo Line to...King George" after you have sat down confortably on the trains)
> 
> I have one good thing to say though: Sky train is quite efficient, automated and quite fast...


Regarding the electronic signs, they are TOTALLY STUPID, it should display the time when the next train arrives way in advance of it arriving at the station. Currently all it does is once actually see the train approaching the station (with your own eyes), and it puts a retarded message like "Expo Line Train to...." and it can't even fit all the text on one "window".

SkyTrain is a good system, but its managed and run very poorly by Translink.


----------



## rt_0891

June 22, 2005
*TransLink and four municipalities finalize Golden Ears Bridge agreement*

The Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority (TransLink) Board of Directors today authorized TransLink to sign a master municipal agreement with the City of Surrey, Township of Langley, District of Pitt Meadows and District of Maple Ridge.

The five-party agreement, which took several years to negotiate, details the roles and responsibilities of TransLink and each municipality relative to the design, construction, operation and maintenance of the Golden Ears Bridge.

“This agreement reflects the vision and collaborative spirit of each municipality that stands to benefit from the bridge,” said TransLink Chair Doug McCallum. “It is a true example of local governments working together to improve the entire region.”

TransLink Board authorization represents the final step in the master agreement approval process. Negotiations with all four municipalities were completed in May 2005 and each municipal council has approved the agreement. The mayors of all four municipalities and Chair McCallum will sign the agreement on June 24th.

The agreement defines the scope and standards for the Golden Ears Bridge, provides the mechanism for connecting road network improvements, and establishes the responsibilities and obligations of all parties over the life of the project.

“This is an essential milestone that moves us closer to linking the communities on the north and south side of the Fraser River,” said Golden Ears Bridge Project Director Fred Cummings. It is expected the contract to design, build, finance, operate, maintain and rehabilitate the bridge will be awarded this fall.

Scheduled to open in 2008, the Golden Ears Bridge will provide a six-lane toll bridge across the Fraser River, connecting Pitt Meadows and Maple Ridge with Surrey and Langley. The new bridge and associated road network will result in improved north-south access to regional centers and major trade routes such as the Trans Canada Highway. It will benefit the entire region by opening up access to employment, markets, services, facilities and recreational opportunities.

TransLink is the region’s transportation authority, committed to working with communities and all levels of government to build an integrated transportation network that will improve the movement of goods and people through the Greater Vancouver region. TransLink supports the regional growth strategy, air quality objectives and economic development of the Greater Vancouver Regional District.


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## hkskyline

*TransLink hiring new drivers as service expands: Company directors want early delivery on 34 new SkyTrain cars *
William Boei 
Vancouver Sun 
23 June 2005

GREATER VANCOUVER - TransLink and its subsidiaries will be hiring 1,200 employees -- most of them for new jobs -- over the next three years after the transportation authority's board approved a plan Wednesday to expand service hours and accelerate the purchase of new buses. 

Planning vice-president Glen Leicester told the TransLink board the new hirings -- mainly drivers and support staff -- will include replacements for retiring employees, but most will be new jobs to help beef up transit service following reports that some bus routes and SkyTrain segments are seriously overcrowded. 

TransLink directors also ordered staff to find out whether it is feasible to get early delivery of 34 new SkyTrain cars that are due in 2009. One of the worst congestion points in the transit system is the Main-Street-to-Broadway SkyTrain segment, which is at 99 per cent of capacity during peak periods. 

The TransLink subsidiaries that operate transit services will add 83,000 service hours next year, 26,000 more hours in 2007 and another 48,000 hours in 2008. 

Fifty new buses due for delivery in 2008 and 2009 will be re-ordered for 2006-07. They are part of a batch of 220 new buses scheduled for delivery over the next four years. 

TransLink will also consider keeping its fleet of 17- and 18-year-old diesel buses on the road longer than planned -- perhaps an average of an extra six months per bus -- as it tries to expand service following three years of rapid ridership growth with little or no new capacity. 

The plan will cost TransLink more than $50 million, but Leicester told the board it is finally "in a pretty good position to afford it." 

TransLink has been strapped for money since its creation in 1999, when the former NDP government reneged on a promise to bring in a new vehicle levy to finance the region's transportation needs. 

But things are looking rosier now, with promised revenue from the federal fuel tax a near-certainty, higher ridership boosting fare income, a new tax on parking starting next year and a recent fare increase. 

"Because we have those revenue increases, we can now speed up the purchase of our buses and provide better service than our plan calls for," TransLink chair Doug McCallum said after the meeting. 

TransLink directors also approved a bylaw that will allow the B.C. Assessment Authority to create a tax roll for the new parking tax. 

As well, they authorized the signing of a master agreement with four municipal governments for the new Golden Ears Bridge. 

The bridge will connect Surrey and Langley on the south bank of the Fraser River to Pitt Meadows and Maple Ridge in the north. The agreement will cover design, construction, operation and maintenance of the bridge; a contract with a builder-operator is expected to be signed in the fall.


----------



## hkskyline

*Vancouver traffic relief may be on the lines, report says *
Canadian Press 
24 June 2005

Vancouver -- Greater Vancouver may appear to be losing the battle against traffic congestion and urban sprawl but there is hope the region's two new rapid transit lines will reverse the trend, a report says. 

TransLink planning and policy director Clive Rock said the region's afternoon rush hour has expanded to five hours from four. 

Mr. Rock's report said 50 per cent of new office jobs are in new office parks scattered on Greater Vancouver's outer edges, where they are difficult to serve by road and impossible by transit. 

However, Mr. Rock told TransLink directors on Wednesday that the planned Richmond-Airport-Vancouver rapid transit line and a light-rail extension from the Millennium SkyTrain Line in Burnaby to the designated growth centres could make the difference.


----------



## rt_0891

*Pedestrians trump the 'green wave'*

Ed Drass, with files from James Bow
National Post

Monday, June 27, 2005

In over seven years of writing this column, the most frequent concern I hear from readers is traffic signals. Alan Inglis of Vancouver asks what drivers everywhere want to know: "Can you tell me why timed or phased traffic lights are not used more frequently? In this age of advanced wireless electronics, I think it would be an easy task with many benefits. Vancouver uses this system in a limited manner downtown -- on Georgia, Dunsmuir, Howe and maybe two other streets.

"But why don't we make use of it on all major traffic corridors?

"The system can be used to control speed at the limit. Excess speed is punished by a wait at the next light. I think a greater volume of traffic will flow, and drivers will be more relaxed and mild mannered!"

Getting a string of solid greens may be a technological Holy Grail -- it is so easily stymied by either physics (read traffic congestion) -- or philosophy. Patrick Ryan of the City of Vancouver says signal co-ordination, sometimes called green waves, works better on one-way streets.

When "you get into two-way corridors, it gets a lot more complex," he says. "Trying to co-ordinate the different corridors crossing each other [is] starting to get next to impossible. So, at some stage, you have to pick one corridor."

In many North American cities, one-way streets are found primarily downtown. But rec-ently, Vancouver converted some of its single-direction routes to the old-fashioned style. Like other booming burgs across the country, people are moving back to the city core -- and so are merchants.

Shop owners everywhere want parking available near their stores, as well as good auto access. But what they crave is foot traffic. Says the Vancouver engineer, "Our transportation plan, approved by council, really is a lot more pedestrian focused. Our priority is pedestrians, cyclists, transit, goods movement and the private automobile ... in that order. We do have a different approach. We're not into the higher capacity vehicle flows as much as higher people flow."

One of the city's busiest thoroughfares is Granville Street --where Mr. Ryan says half the people moving along it are riding in transit vehicles. Here, the traffic signal system kicks in to keep service flowing. "Any bus that's running late will get an extended green time, wherever it's possible," he says.

Traffic lights are more and more likely to be timed for those crossing the street. Mr. Ryan says, "Across the board, we've tried to reduce pedestrian wait times as much as possible -- that was a policy decision a while back." How does the central city compare to suburban municipalities? He says, "I think more of the other areas look at more vehicle flow. It's a more traditional approach to transportation engineering."

Before you grumble about pedestrians, keep in mind that the most formidable opponent to green waves is traffic going the other way. The modern intersection is also at fault. Junctions with "fully actuated signals" make it easier to turn left and try to account for volume coming from different directions. Wherever intersection lights are triggered by the presence of traffic, it becomes very difficult to co-ordinate signals along an entire corridor.

Larry McCormick, Edmonton's manager of traffic operations, says that his city does have green waves, especially on routes aimed downtown. Signal timing is tougher in areas of Alberta's capital where traffic does not favour one direction. The priority is balancing delay for all drivers, he says, "so that we don't have these wonderful green waves coming into the city, [leaving] everybody at the side street waiting an outrageous amount of time."

© National Post 2005


----------



## en

http://www.ravprapidtransit.com/en/discussion_guide_feedback.php

Click on Open House Display Boards (link in that webpage) to see station proposals.

I am kind of disappointed with the station proposals, they look "cheap" to me. Only 1 station entrances proposed for the underground stations when they could have multiple entry points connected with underground walkways to make the station more integrated with the neighbourhood.

I was hoping that they would have fare gates, but it seems that they are not going to.


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## officedweller

The designs are just base cases - I expect the final designs to be more architecturally interesting - but as for connections, SNC Lavalin has to keep the cost down since they have already bid a price for the project and they have to stay within those constraints - overruns would be at their cost). 

I could see additional links being built in the future - like the Royal Centre link to Burrrad Station was built a number of years after the station opened. Ultimately, if a link to Pacific Centre is built - Cadillac Fairview (Pacific Centre's owners) should pay for it since it primarily benefits the mall. 

At the info session I attended, a lot of people wanted an internal link to Sinclair Centre for Waterfront - instead of the pavillion in the middle of the street.

As for the double decker stations, the proximity to the surface means that a pedestrian passge cannot be built above the tunnels - so that limits the number of exit passages. Hopefully for Oakridge they'll add another pedestrian passage to the NW corner of the intersection.

I think the single exit model facilitates later installation of fare gates if required - by keeping down the number of them required.


----------



## rt_0891

arashi_1987 said:


> And for those automated gates...I'd love to see them but Translink is gonna have to do A LOT of changes to their ticket systems...For those who buy tickets it's fine but...what about for the majority of the people [i am assuming] who use monthly passes, U-Pass, and other forms of passes...?? How are they supposed to ge through a automated-machine with those ?? Remember there are no staff at work in most stations to "check" those passes.


It would be nice if they could adopt something like the Octopus Card in Hong Kong. 



> - FARE BOXES on buses are 'retarded'...can put in only 1 coin at a time?? And still they count wront!!! [one time I was on a community bus and put in $1.50 for 1 zone...and the screen reads: $4.10...wow thanks...I wonder where that can take me to] Please, do something about that!!!
> *In Japan the Bus fare boxes lets you put all the coins in into a slot and counts the amount you put in (error free) in 1 second.


Those fare boxes are kind of sad.  But still better than Toronto's fare box, where I've seen people trick the bus drivers with fake tickets (or tickets split in half), loose change (that's nowhere near the real fare), dimes mistaken for tokens. Sometimes, the drivers just don't seem to care, even though their bread and water relies on it.

The Japanese are always amazing when it comes to techie stuff. Their many innovations deserve applause. :applause:


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## ssiguy2

There will always be ways to cheat if you want to, no matter what the case. Build a better rat trap and someone will invent a better rat.


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## crazyjoeda

Those arnt the station designs, they are station configurations. I bet may entrances will be inside buildings and will have multiple entrances.


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## hkskyline

*Drilling begins next week to confirm soil conditions for RAV Line project *
Vancouver Sun 
28 June 2005

VANCOUVER - Drilling begins in False Creek next week to confirm soil conditions along the route of the Richmond-Airport-Vancouver rapid transit line tunnel. 

Ravco, the TransLink subsidiary overseeing the RAV Line project, said the drilling will be done by InTransitBC, the name being used to build and operate the line by the consortium that won the bidding, SNC-Lavalin/Serco. 

Geotechnical testing will start as early as July 4 and will take place from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., Ravco said. Drilling will be done from a barge with navigational lights and markers. 

Test holes will be about 15 centimetres in diameter and 30 to 35 metres deep. 

The tunnel will be dug by a deep boring machine from about Granville Street and Dunsmuir, under downtown Vancouver and False Creek to Cambie Street at about Second Avenue. From there to 63rd Avenue, "cut and cover" construction will be used; from 63rd Avenue south, the line will run on an elevated guideway similar to SkyTrain.


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## ssiguy2

This thing is going to be unbeleivably disruptive using the cut and cover meathod for the subway parts all for a lousy 70,000/day.


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## [email protected]

Indeed! And those poor Cambie merchants. If only they knew the truth right from the beginning. They could have killed this project and spared all you Canadian taxpayers the misery. And for what? So little rich kids could joy ride in a near useless subway?


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## Plumber73

I would think the cut and cover will be done in small sections, so disruptions will minimized. I don't think it's as bad as it sounds. I do feel for the merchants though, and they should be compensated for any loss in business. Give the line a few years and Cambie could become an attractive place to setup shop.


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## ssiguy2

^^^^^^^
Maybe but only after all the current Cambie Street businesses go under.


----------



## [email protected]

officedweller said:


> The City did not require a tunnel - it just prohibited elevated.
> The combination of an exclusive ROW, however, and the prohibition of elevated, basically meant tunnel or trench, since an at-grade would have had to duck under so many major intersections.


So the city was being a smart ass. They say they don't require a tunnel but require exclusive ROW and yet prohibit elevated, thus requiring the tunnel anyway in order to achieve their demands. If they did not prohibit elevated, then the project would have ended up being cheaper in an elevated form and still accomplish the performance requirements of the project. Of course, the savings could have easily been passed to enhance other projects in the GVRD. But I guess satisfying the demands of the creme de la creme of no elevated system is much more important than getting the best bang out of your buck and spreading the wealth for everyone to benefit.


----------



## crazyjoeda

KGB said:


> "-9th-12th, No business.
> -12th-16th, an abandoned gas station, White Spot(they have parking in back, a mini plaza(parking), Asian restaurant(parking) and a few other shops with no parking.
> -16th-20th, lots of little shops with almost all with no parking.
> -21st-24th, No business.
> -24th-25th, a few shops with no parking.
> -25th-39th, No business.
> -40th-41st, a few shops and an abandoned gas station."
> 
> 
> 
> One might ask why a RT line is even being built through such a not-happening corridor in the first place. I mean, if it's the "build-it-and-they-will-come" thing, then that's fine....but this is suburbanish vancouver...not Toronto...who is really going to "come".
> 
> 
> KGB


 :weirdo: 
That is by far the stupidest thing you have ever said. Your saying that if it was Toronto companies would be jumping at the opportunity to have real estate along a subway line, but since its Vancouver nobody will care? 

LOL, Please get over your self. 

If history is any indication development along the RAV line will intence as it has been along both the Millenium and Expo Lines. 

The RAV corridor has many, many major employment and commerce centres already in place.


----------



## crazyjoeda

Wally and KGB, why do you guys care so much about the 2billion dollar cost? Neither of you live in Vancouver.

According to a recent poll 82% of people in Greater Vancouver support the project in its current forum. 

The only people in this thread that have said this is a waste of money are people who don't live in Greater Vancouver.


----------



## KGB

"That is by far the stupidest thing you have ever said. "


I dunno...I've said some pretty stupid things.







"Your saying that if it was Toronto companies would be jumping at the opportunity to have real estate along a subway line, but since its Vancouver nobody will care? LOL, Please get over your self. "


Well, first of all...it's not about "me"...I don't take any credit, or any personal pleasure regarding the subject....I'm just stating reality...not bragging. And yes, in the city of Toronto, you can do this, because the lines are not built to serve suburban commuters and are designed much differently....and the amount of population and development increases can make this a reality in the CITY of Toronto.

I am one of those people who are all for rapid transit in vancouver...spend all the money you want. All I'm discussing is the reality that the area is not ideal for it....Vancouver is limited in it's public transit abilities because of the reality of it's built form.





KGB


----------



## [email protected]

crazyjoeda said:


> If history is any indication development along the RAV line will intence as it has been along both the Millenium and Expo Lines.
> 
> The RAV corridor has many, many major employment and commerce centres already in place.


Ah but you do not take into account the fact that the city of Vancouver has no intention of densifying the Cambie Corridor the same way Burnaby has densified the Expo Line and Millenium Line routes or how Surrey is trying to revitalize Whalley. I doubt if we would see Central City style developments, both in terms of offices and residential, in Cambie ever that will actually justify the line! And those major employment and commercial centers are puny compared to what's going on in the suburbs of Vancouver.


----------



## greg_christine

Gentlemen,

Please try to keep this discussion polite. I don't understand the level of rancor. Canadians are usually so civil. You are arguing like a bunch of Australians.

Thank you,
GV


----------



## mr.x

> Who knows what will happen in a hundred years but I'm sure a little kid wouldn't know that for sure. Flying cars are different from airplanes because they don't need airports. Duh!
> 
> And given officedweller's link leads us to non accessible public documents, am I just suppose to take your word for it?
> 
> RAV Skytrain was cancelled because the creme de la creme decided to make Cambie a "Heritage Boulevard". I see now you are defending NIMBYism. If I recall, even officedweller acknowledged a few pages back that NIMBYism is the main caused. So despite your claims you do not support the creme de la creme, clearly you are defending them and are now putting the blame on the defunct NDP government. I'm sorry but you should just accept the fact that you are part of the reason why this project is such a bad deal to all the GVRD and acknowledge it.


Uhhh. They've already said that it's impossible to have flying cars without having airports everywhere.

Well actually, I had no idea about that it was the creme de la creme that made Cambie a Heritage Boulevard. I had always assumed the heritage boulevard has been around since forever. No, I am not supporting the NIMBY's because the fact is that the NDP is largely responsible for killing RAV SkyTrain. But I will also accept the fact that the creme de la creme, to some extent, as officedweller details, was also responsible for killing the 1990 plan.





> Now if only mr X and the RAV supporters just acknowledge that fact and accept the fact that the project in its current form is a bad deal, as pointed out by myself, ssiguy and KGB. After all, the main reason why RAV is so expensive and controversial, even to this day (e.g. Cambie merchants) is the influence of the creme de la creme with regards to this project and the escalating costs as a result that will now have to be paid by the rest of the GVRD, whether they directly benefit from RAV or not and also resulting in the delay, cancellation or downgrade of much needed projects elsewhere.


As I have stated many times before, I do not support the tunneling of RAV south of Queen Elizabeth Park where it is clearly possible. It's insane to have anything at-grade or elevated in downtown and it's not practicle to have it elevated over the creek. It's also not practicle to have it from Queen Elizabeth Park to False Creek. Why? There is no greenway north of King Edward meaning that elevated or at-grade would require the destruction of two very needed traffic lanes on Cambie. QE Park is also in the way. 

All this means that the line should be elevated south of QE Park. It's clearly possible but it looks like RAVO is having the line as subway to all the way to Marine Drive. I do not believe in protecting that stupid greenway on Cambie.






> Well, first of all...it's not about "me"...I don't take any credit, or any personal pleasure regarding the subject....I'm just stating reality...not bragging. And yes, in the city of Toronto, you can do this, because the lines are not built to serve suburban commuters and are designed much differently....and the amount of population and development increases can make this a reality in the CITY of Toronto.
> 
> I am one of those people who are all for rapid transit in vancouver...spend all the money you want. All I'm discussing is the reality that the area is not ideal for it....Vancouver is limited in it's public transit abilities because of the reality of it's built form.


You don't have any personal pleasure regarding the subject? Come on! That's the biggest lie in the topic - you clearly hate Vancouver! You can't even be positive about the city for one post - even Wally has done that!

Fine, we'll almagate the city of Vancouver with Richmond, Burnaby and the three municipalities on the North Shore. That's what Toronto has done - CONSUME EVERYTHING, so stop this surburban commuting crap. If those cities that used to exist, that are now consumed by Toronto, didn't almagate, Toronto would also have this "suburban commuting" nonsense. 

Vancouver will be limited in it's public transit abilities if it doesn't build now!That's the problem Vancouver has from the start, unlike other Canadian cities. It's a reversible situation, not a dead end as you ignorantly dictate.






> Ah but you do not take into account the fact that the city of Vancouver has no intention of densifying the Cambie Corridor the same way Burnaby has densified the Expo Line and Millenium Line routes or how Surrey is trying to revitalize Whalley. I doubt if we would see Central City style developments, both in terms of offices and residential, in Cambie ever that will actually justify the line! And those major employment and commercial centers are puny compared to what's going on in the suburbs of Vancouver.


Give the city time. It may not be right away that the corridor is densified. All we need is the right council with Gordy attitudes in the city hall throne.......the Oakridge area will be rezoned to dense office/residential in a few years.


----------



## mr.x

greg_christine said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> Please try to keep this discussion polite. I don't understand the level of rancor. Canadians are usually so civil. You are arguing like a bunch of Australians.
> 
> Thank you,
> GV



It's a very delicate and complicated subject.......but ok. :cheers:


----------



## crazyjoeda

KGB said:


> "That is by far the stupidest thing you have ever said. "
> 
> 
> I dunno...I've said some pretty stupid things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Your saying that if it was Toronto companies would be jumping at the opportunity to have real estate along a subway line, but since its Vancouver nobody will care? LOL, Please get over your self. "
> 
> 
> Well, first of all...it's not about "me"...I don't take any credit, or any personal pleasure regarding the subject....I'm just stating reality...not bragging. And yes, in the city of Toronto, you can do this, because the lines are not built to serve suburban commuters and are designed much differently....and the amount of population and development increases can make this a reality in the CITY of Toronto.
> 
> I am one of those people who are all for rapid transit in vancouver...spend all the money you want. All I'm discussing is the reality that the area is not ideal for it....Vancouver is limited in it's public transit abilities because of the reality of it's built form.
> 
> 
> 
> KGB


Are you insane? We are talking about the same Vancouver? Obviusly you don't know very much about Vancouver and our transit system. Im not sure why you think Skytrain is anymore of commuter train then Toronto's subway, because Skytrain and Toronto's subway both serve exactly the same purpose and that is to move people around the city. 

Toronto has no more power to attract buissness and Condo's to a rapid transit corridor then other cities like Montreal, Vancouver or even Calgary.


----------



## [email protected]

greg_christine said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> Please try to keep this discussion polite. I don't understand the level of rancor. Canadians are usually so civil. You are arguing like a bunch of Australians.
> 
> Thank you,
> GV


Well, if there is one observation I can tell you with my experience living in the Vancouver area last year, transit is the single most contentious issue for that metro area. A lot of people in this forum claim that it is an excellent world system, blah blah blah, but in reality, all Vancouverites do is whine and complain about how bad their current transit and transportation system is. Can't really blame them given that the end result of the improvements are simply because of politics, as officedweller pointed out. If the provincial and civic leaders of Vancouver simply put these silly lame ass politics aside and plan their rapid transit expansion based solely on sound urban planning, i.e. following the GVRD LRSP strictly and to the letter, and fairly disperse the funding and projects evenly across the region based on need instead of doing stupid things like build subways to appease the creme de la creme, things would be much better and the GVRD would have a very extensive rapid transit system that services the needs of the many, not just the few priviledged ones. What a big relief I've experienced moving back home in Portland after my tenure in a BC company has ended. Our transit system is hailed as one of the best in the continent and Portlanders have a lot of reason to be proud. I wonder if Translink would ever come to my city and see and learn how a good transit system should be planned and built.


----------



## en

Wally said:


> I wonder if Translink would ever come to my city and see and learn how a good transit system should be planned and built.


Translink _did_ come to study a city....went to London, England a while ago, seems like they didn't learn much. Probably another all expense paid "field trip" for those fat-cat bureaucrats and politicans.


----------



## rt_0891

Wally said:


> But I guess satisfying the demands of the creme de la creme of no elevated system is much more important than getting the best bang out of your buck


I think you've hit the nail about the power of Vancouver's elite NIMBYs. They're hindering growth, and stopping the natural densification that's supposed to occur in the supposed "inner city". 



> and spreading the wealth for everyone to benefit.


Given that most of the translink's networks benefit the suburbs way more than Vancouver, I actually feel sorry for Vancouver for being ignored so long.


----------



## zonie

Since the Cambie median is going to stay green, I think Vancouver should spend some money to make it really beautiful. It would be a lot nicer with some flowers and shrubs, etc. to complement those trees.


----------



## officedweller

BTW - the City of Vancouver did not require the exclusive ROW - RAVco did (in part to guarantee the airport a travel time to downtown of 25 minutes).

BTW 2 - the Oakridge area is slated to be densified. That has been planned for quite some time:

http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/currentplanning/oakridge/index.htm

THe broader plan dates from before RAV and is likely to be updated.

http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/guidelines/O001.pdf

As for Vancouver being "ignored" - Vancouver hasn't necessarily wanted rapid transit - it's just necessary to traverse Vancouver to get to Richmond. When Gordon Campbell was mayor of Vancouver, he advocated connecting Regional Town Centres away from Vancouver before serving Vancouver - so as to encourgae growth away from Vancouver. 

Vancouver is a bit odd in that it does not want to be a big city - in the big US city sense - it wants to be "livable". That means limiting tall/ massive buildings and preserving neighbourhood centres - but the City is increasingly becoming aware that it is losing its commercial and industrial base to residential growth (which pays less in property taxes) and to the outlying municipalities (which isn't even in the desirable town centres, but office parks). 

It will be interesting to see how Vancouver develops around the RAV line.

BTW - it should be borne in mind that there is significant growth in residential mid-rise development throughout downtown Richmond. So there will be a ready population base to serve in Richmond itself.


----------



## KGB

"Fine, we'll almagate the city of Vancouver with Richmond, Burnaby and the three municipalities on the North Shore. That's what Toronto has done - If those cities that used to exist, that are now consumed by Toronto, didn't almagate, Toronto would also have this "suburban commuting" nonsense."


I really don't see the point in getting into great detail about Toronto in a Vancouver thread...but sufice to say...that is not what happened in Toronto at all. And doing what you suggest would not equate to Toronto either. If ya don't know the topic...stay away from it.

The municipality of Toronto that was created in 1953, is exactly why Toronto is the way it is now...which included the creation of a single municipal transit system to service it. And why the commuter transit system was created and run separately.








"Vancouver will be limited in it's public transit abilities if it doesn't build now!That's the problem Vancouver has from the start, unlike other Canadian cities. It's a reversible situation, not a dead end as you ignorantly dictate."


You are obviously confusing me with someone else...I didn't dictate any such thing....I'm all for public transit growth in Vancouver....including Skytrains. I'm just pointing out the limitations of it because of a suburban dominated area, and the suburban dominated transit agency that designs, builds and runs it. This makes for a less-than-ideal environment to operate a transit system like the TTC.










"Are you insane? "

Possibly






"We are talking about the same Vancouver? "

I think we are...yes








" Skytrain and Toronto's subway both serve exactly the same purpose and that is to move people around the city."


That's where you are dead wrong...the TTC subway only opporates IN the city, and it's routes, vehicles and stations are designed specifically to get people AROUND the city in a very non-commuter fashion. Skytrain is designed to move people IN and OUT of the downtown area from the suburbs in a very commuter fashion.








"Toronto has no more power to attract buissness and Condo's to a rapid transit corridor then other cities like Montreal, Vancouver or even Calgary."


And you are accusing me of being insane??? Perhaps you should take a peek at some figures before making that claim.






KGB


----------



## [email protected]

officedweller said:


> As for Vancouver being "ignored" - Vancouver hasn't necessarily wanted rapid transit - it's just necessary to traverse Vancouver to get to Richmond. When Gordon Campbell was mayor of Vancouver, he advocated connecting Regional Town Centres away from Vancouver before serving Vancouver - so as to encourgae growth away from Vancouver.
> 
> Vancouver is a bit odd in that it does not want to be a big city - in the big US city sense - it wants to be "livable". That means limiting tall/ massive buildings and preserving neighbourhood centres - but the City is increasingly becoming aware that it is losing its commercial and industrial base to residential growth (which pays less in property taxes) and to the outlying municipalities (which isn't even in the desirable town centres, but office parks).
> 
> It will be interesting to see how Vancouver develops around the RAV line.
> 
> BTW - it should be borne in mind that there is significant growth in residential mid-rise development throughout downtown Richmond. So there will be a ready population base to serve in Richmond itself.


^
That is assuming every person in Richmond works in downtown Vancouver or the Cambie Corridor....wait! Isn't downtown Vancouver continuously been eating up commercial land and buildings and replacing them with residentials? Isn't Vancouver experiencing "reverse commuting" in which people live in downtown but work in the suburbs? Aren't the significant employers within Richmond, including the company that I used to work with, also located in suburban office parks? And despite the plan to densify Oakridge, will that be alone to generate enough ridership to pay for the line?

The fact that they are mid-rise development further reinforces that Richmond simply cannot grow as much. And with the amount of money spent on serving them vs the amount needed for even higher growth regions in other parts of the GVRD, it all goes down to politics, as what you previously mentioned. Besides to be even more blunt, I doubt Richmondnites would give up their Acuras and BMWs for a transit pass soon.

I don't feel symphathetic for the city of Vancouver though and nor should anybody else. According to the Translink website, the 10 year plan consist of $4 billion in transit investments in the whole GVRD. Half of that goes directly to the city of Vancouver (RAV Line and Trolley buses). But I would also like to point out that half of the GVRD population does not exactly live and work within the city boundaries of Vancouver and yet those people still have to pay full price for the program, especially if RAV does not exceed ridership expectations. WTF? If Vancouver was a core city, fine. But its not simply because the growth of the population and employment are elsewhere. And given this fact, it is only rightfully so that they invest more in that "elsewhere" or force the city of Vancouver's butt moving into making itself the central core of the region, i.e. start concentrating employment centres in areas that are served or will be served by rapid transit lines.


----------



## [email protected]

KGB said:


> You are obviously confusing me with someone else...I didn't dictate any such thing....I'm all for public transit growth in Vancouver....including Skytrains.


I too would want to clarify my stance. I'm also all for public transit growth in Vancouver, but especially Sky-trains...trains high up in the sky! But above all, an extensive Skytrain network that serves ALL the GVRD, not just a few lucky ones. You can only do that by wisely managing whatever little funds you have and concentrating in expanding the system region wide as oppose to putting most of your funds in one subway line whose current form is only the result of the creme de la creme lobbying (and that includes RAVCO's Larry Berg and Jane Bird, as well as that Ken Dobbel guy who are minions for the creme de la creme).


----------



## shangri_la

*(Vancouver) Translink's New Trolley Buses*

I saw on the news last night that New Flyer has deliver the first of the new trolley buses for Translink. These new trolleys are suppose to replace the aging fleet of trolley buses. One of the drivers who test drove one of the new buses says that the new buses feel very much like the regular low floor buses. He also says they accelerate very smoothly. 

I snapped some photos from the newscast. The quality isn't great but at least it gives a look at the new BUSES  









The New Trolley Bus, LOOKS COOL.  









Back of the Bus. 









Driver Seat.









Seats for the Elderly.


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## EastVanGuy

those look sweet. You should also post this in the Vancouver Public Transit thread


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## ailiton

Even the new trolley buses look outdated.


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## Skybean

Looks similar to Toronto's newer buses. I'm wondering why there would be investment into these types of buses.. granted they will be wheel chair accessible, but they have low rider capacity.


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## mr.x

They look awesome!


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## ssiguy2

^^^^^^
In vested in them because although more expensive to buy they are cheaper to run {electricity vs gas} and are non-polluting.


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## ssiguy2

I think very few have a difficulty with the RAV line itself but its the cost and technology. 
They are building a high density rail line down a low density street. They have also made assurances to the Cambie area residents that the road will NOT be densified. Absurd! 
This was NOT the case with the EXPO line so ridership is good as the areas around it have mushroomed in population but that will not be the case in Vancouver. 
Vancouver is also growing slower than it was in the late 80s early 90s and the growth was {and still is} centred in the Surrey/Coquitlam areas...not Richmond! 
I could see RAV being underground to KingEdward but after that there is no excuse tunnelling under a low density road. 
Translink is expecting 80k passengers/day by 2020 but only 30,000 will be new. 
IOW, 40,000 passengers for $1.7bil. 
I know I always sing the praises of the CTrain but when you get3 times as many people riding it for one third the cost, it makes you want to both puke and kill.


----------



## rt_0891

officedweller said:


> As for Vancouver being "ignored" - Vancouver hasn't necessarily wanted rapid transit - it's just necessary to traverse Vancouver to get to Richmond. When Gordon Campbell was mayor of Vancouver, he advocated connecting Regional Town Centres away from Vancouver before serving Vancouver - so as to encourgae growth away from Vancouver.
> 
> Vancouver is a bit odd in that it does not want to be a big city - in the big US city sense - it wants to be "livable". That means limiting tall/ massive buildings and preserving neighbourhood centres - but the City is increasingly becoming aware that it is losing its commercial and industrial base to residential growth (which pays less in property taxes) and to the outlying municipalities (which isn't even in the desirable town centres, but office parks).


Yes, that's quite a problem in Vancouver. Same for the North Shore. I've lived there most of my youth (now, my _vacation_ home), and pretty much all I've heard is people complaining about traffic jams. However, at the same time they're pretty much against every transit proposal that would be open up the area to an influx of new residents (with the expection of Lonsdale). What do they want?



Wally said:


> I don't feel symphathetic for the city of Vancouver though and nor should anybody else. According to the Translink website, the 10 year plan consist of $4 billion in transit investments in the whole GVRD. Half of that goes directly to the city of Vancouver (RAV Line and Trolley buses). But I would also like to point out that half of the GVRD population does not exactly live and work within the city boundaries of Vancouver and yet those people still have to pay full price for the program, especially if RAV does not exceed ridership expectations. WTF? If Vancouver was a core city, fine. But its not simply because the growth of the population and employment are elsewhere. And given this fact, it is only rightfully so that they invest more in that "elsewhere" or force the city of Vancouver's butt moving into making itself the central core of the region, i.e. start concentrating employment centres in areas that are served or will be served by rapid transit lines.


Well, Vancouver better be the core city in the future... or we'll end up with a bunch of suburbs without a core. (aka LA). That's not the direction to go. 

As someone else mentioned before, the best way is to amalgamate Vancouver & Burnaby (& possibly several other GVRD cities) together, strengthen the city's tax base, and weaken the West of Cambie NIMBYs' grip on city hall. Once this power structure changes, council would have the backbone to densify Cambie and effectively solve half of RAV's problems.


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## crazyjoeda

The new bus's look dope.

I like Vancouver and Burnaby's trolley bus network, they should extend it into other parts of the GVA like Surrey and Richmond.


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## rt_0891

The driver's seat area looks a bit old.


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## bs_lover_boy

It looks like the ones now! I can't see any differences except for the seats. And our tax money goes to this???? Oh gosh!!!!


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## crazyjoeda

^ What are you talking about they look nothing like the current ones.

This is an old bus.


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## officedweller

I think the GVRD is examining ways to try to better focus office growth in the town centres. There have been recent reports / studies regarding the growth of suburban office parks and the inability to serve those areas with transit - so that issue is taking a higher profile. Hopefully it will change things at the various municipal halls. 

BTW, despite the (aircraft) height restrictions in Richmond, there are a number of condo towers being built in the core of Richmond, and in particular, the area around the public market (near the terminus station) has a better urban layout than areas in Metrotown.... albeit still condos rather than office towers.


----------



## arashi_1987

Please correct me if I am wrong, I am not 100% certain in all the points I make. I apologise in advance.

*wally*: "Ah but you do not take into account the fact that the city of Vancouver has no intention of densifying the Cambie Corridor the same way Burnaby has densified the Expo Line and Millenium Line routes or how Surrey is trying to revitalize Whalley. I doubt if we would see Central City style developments, both in terms of offices and residential, in Cambie ever that will actually justify the line! And those major employment and commercial centers are puny compared to what's going on in the suburbs of Vancouver."
*Comment---*maybe there will be a change in policy with pressure from some groups after the RAV line is built. how can you be certain that the policy will never be changed? Or maybe Burnaby will stop densifying in 5 years, who knows?! :bash: 

---------------------------------------

*officedweller: * thanks for posting a 1990 article and brochure...(on P 14)
I am surprised that talks about a Van-Richmond Line and a Coquitlam Line has been on paper since 1990. :eek2: 
1 - Vancouver Richmond Line Construction: 1991, completion: 1995.
2 - a thrid seabus for North Vancouver: 1994; I recall reading on the translink website recently that such a vessel will be in service by 2008/2009?
3 - Skytrain extension to Lougheed Mall by 1995; not done until 2001
Conclusion: I am beginning to wonder if all these disruptions to Transit improvements are due to the provincial elections. (NDP-->Liberal) Whatever it is...I just want them ASAP!!

There's too much politics involved in this...it's as if we are getting rewarded (limited) transit improvements (bridges, LRTs, skytrains, buses...) for voting for certain political parties, and not the other way around.

This is how I see this...NDP gets kicked out of government in late 90s...Liberals come in...rail lines cancelled...ICBC's power is increased...forcing people to drive and pay insurance...before the '05 elections...liberal promises for all these RAV, Coq Line, Golden Ears Bridge, Twinning Port Mann, a new Pitt River Bridge, etc etc...let's see if they are just going to be a bunch of talk...(other than RAV and Golden Ears Bridge...I think those will get finished)

We should make the ultimate GVRD Transit Map and make the government impose it or else we shall go onto the streets and march!! :jk: 
Just a thought.

Again, please excuse and correct any mistakes I may have.


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## mr.x

If it doesn't already, shouldn't the provincial government give an annual subsidy to Translink like how it gives a subsidy to BC Ferries every year? BC Ferries gets $100 million. Translink should get like $300 million.


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## rt_0891

arashi_1987 said:


> There's too much politics involved in this...it's as if we are getting rewarded (limited) transit improvements (bridges, LRTs, skytrains, buses...) for voting for certain political parties, and not the other way around.


I think you've nailed it with that remark.  That's the price of democracy in its current form.


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## arashi_1987

now I think I know why there arent any 2-storey buses for downtown...those electric wire things are in the way.


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## officedweller

Agreed on the politics.

WRT Wally's comments (though I can't speak for him) - what I think he is referring to is the City of Vancouver's policy to maintain neighbourhoods and NOT rezone (upzone) an area SOLELY because a rapid transit station is located there. To date, the COV has only rezoned industrial lands to spur redevelopment at Skytrain stations - it has not increased the density of existing residential areas - it's sort of preservationist nimbyism. 

The most blatant example is Broadway & Commcerial Skytrain Station - this is a huge transit hub, yet there isn't an increase in density - because the COV does not want to disrupt the Commercial Drive neighbourhood. In my view there should be a highrise district focussed on the station. This can be contained so as not to disrupt the Commercial Drive strip further north. Even the "Transit Showcase" project currently being undertaken by the COV and Translink talks of "transit villages" and only beautifies the area - while acknowledging that rezoning would require a change in policy by the City. 

If you travel along the Skytrain lines (other than downtown):

Main St. - industrial -> residential
Broadway-Commercial - status quo
Nanaimo - status quo
29th Ave. - status quo
Joyce - light industrial -> residential

Rupert - light industrial -> high tech / light industrial 
Renfrew - light industrial -> high tech / light industrial

In comparison, the only Burnaby station that has not seen significant highrise growth is Royal Oak (condo towers are planned for Holdom, and Production Way falls into the high tech office park category).


----------



## rt_0891

FROM SSP: 

Dominion's VCC Station pics have finally been updated.
Glass has been installed at the platform level and at grade.

http://www.dominionco.com/projectph...tion/photos.cfm










June 26th, 2005 interior station pics now posted at Dominion's website:

http://www.dominionco.com/projectph...tion/photos.cfm


----------



## npinguy

Wally said:


> Ah but you do not take into account the fact that the city of Vancouver has no intention of densifying the Cambie Corridor the same way Burnaby has densified the Expo Line and Millenium Line routes or how Surrey is trying to revitalize Whalley.



Wrong.

The city hasn't approved an increase in density (upzoning) YET - because otherwise the Nimbys would have wined and not approved the skytrain line.

But think about it. It won't be done for another FIVE YEARS. I guarantee you there will be an increase in density.

Oakridge may become like another Metrotown.
The entire False Creek South area will have a lot more mid-rises, and after a while high-rises, as well, as Downtown will loop around the creek
The area from Broadway to 25th already's got some highrises, and will get more. Why have a 2-story building with a convenience store when you can build a 30 story building there with the convenience store on the bottom. It can happen. It WILL happen.



Finally there's nothing wrong with huge industrial parks in the suburbs (let's say richmond). It is like that in most cities. It's not that there's no room for office space in Vancouver. It's that the cost is too high.


----------



## [email protected]

^ Umm, have you not read the comment from officedweller? He seemed to have hit the mark on my thoughts...



officedweller said:


> Agreed on the politics.
> 
> WRT Wally's comments (though I can't speak for him) - what I think he is referring to is the City of Vancouver's policy to maintain neighbourhoods and NOT rezone (upzone) an area SOLELY because a rapid transit station is located there. To date, the COV has only rezoned industrial lands to spur redevelopment at Skytrain stations - it has not increased the density of existing residential areas - it's sort of preservationist nimbyism.
> 
> The most blatant example is Broadway & Commcerial Skytrain Station - this is a huge transit hub, yet there isn't an increase in density - because the COV does not want to disrupt the Commercial Drive neighbourhood. In my view there should be a highrise district focussed on the station. This can be contained so as not to disrupt the Commercial Drive strip further north. Even the "Transit Showcase" project currently being undertaken by the COV and Translink talks of "transit villages" and only beautifies the area - while acknowledging that rezoning would require a change in policy by the City.
> 
> If you travel along the Skytrain lines (other than downtown):
> 
> Main St. - industrial -> residential
> Broadway-Commercial - status quo
> Nanaimo - status quo
> 29th Ave. - status quo
> Joyce - light industrial -> residential
> 
> Rupert - light industrial -> high tech / light industrial
> Renfrew - light industrial -> high tech / light industrial
> 
> In comparison, the only Burnaby station that has not seen significant highrise growth is Royal Oak (condo towers are planned for Holdom, and Production Way falls into the high tech office park category).


No amount of wishful thinking in your part will achieve the results that you want, npinguy. Unless you are some prominent Vancouver councillor who has a shot of winning the next municipal elections in disguise and are secretly planning to rally the implementation of those zoning changes yourself....


----------



## mr.x

I did some research of my own and I've found out that the electrical system of our new trolleys are made in Germany by a company called Kiepe-Electrik. The bus is put together by New Flyer in Winnipeg.

Here is a rendering of our new trolleys:









Note that the trolley in the back has a bend like our B-Line buses. I am assuming that those are the 60 footers and are something like this:













From Kiepe's website, translated from German to English through Google.



> *Kiepe traction equipment for the Niederflur trolley buses and Niederflur joint trolley buses for Vancouver, Canada*
> 
> Vancouver is the largest metropolis in the west of Canada and operates the second largest trolley bus fleet of North America. Also in the future reliable and pollution free trolley buses will form the backbone of the public local passenger traffic in Vancouver.
> 
> In order to achieve this goal, the Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority (GVTA) replaces the complete from the 80's coming trolley bus fleet by modern Niederflurbusse with Kiepe traction equipment.
> 
> The new Niederflur vehicles are developed and built together with new flyer Industries from Winnipeg. 188 new Niederflur solo trolley buses and 40 Niederflur joint trolley buses of the type rows E40LF and E60LF will already clearly take up the 2010 ago to Vancouver taking place olympic winter plays their service and for highest requirements regarding passenger and operator friendliness will be sufficient.
> 
> An entrance ramp in connection with the existing Kneeling function permits a comfortable in and stepping out to also mobility-reduced passengers. The transport of bicycles outside well observably a down hinged bicycle stand is before the bus and thus the driving personnel.
> 
> One is used for the first time together with the transporting enterprise into Vancouver developed electrical derailing recognition for the current collectors with these trolley buses. Supported by pneumatically propelled pulleys this system completes the proven Kiepe current collector technology.
> 
> For the overhead line-independent travel an emergency travel battery is available.
> 
> Both during the drive equipment and with the subsystems electronic data telegrams on CANopen basis serve the wiring and thus the interference source removal and the weight savings for the reduction.
> 
> On the vehicle roof is the compact Kiepe drive container.
> Uncomplicated to maintain accessible and surely protected against traffic accidents contain this container manufactured from aluminum the most important electronic building groups for the drive as well as for the electrical system power supply.
> The modern technology offers in addition electronic ABS and ASR, an automatic back roll barrier and makes excellent possible road performances up to an electronically abgeregelten maximum speed of 65km/h.


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## officedweller

For the RAV stations within the City of Vancouver - and south of False Creek - I can definitely see:
- a transit oriented development around the South False Creek Station, 
- continued development of the Broadway Corridor around Broadway Station, and
- low-rises and mid-rises around Oakridge Station. 

I could also see the various hospital lands along the line (33rd Ave., 57th Ave.)redeveloped with low-rises and mid-rises, and perhaps even the redevelopment of the low-rise rental stock on Cambie between 20th and King Edward replaced with 6-8 storey low/mid-rises about the same scale as "Olive" (likely not without a fight from rental advocates). 

Otherwise, development along the RAV line at King Edward and 49th Ave. will likely be limited to duplexes and townhouses. Nothing tall. 

Marine Drive will likely remain industrial (esp. since the City is concerned about preserving industrial jobs).

But that doesn't necessarily mean that there won't be ridership on the line. The Expo Line has high ridership despite the low density at several stations located within the COV - it just means that it may not be the highest ridership possible.


----------



## ssiguy2

Again, it is NOT that they are spending that much money on transit but rather RAV. 

If you would have polled people if they wanted $1.72 bil for just RAV subway or the following for the same amount of money you would have gotten a very different response: 

$900mil for LRT RAV which would still allow for a downtown subway, 
$250mil to add 100 ARTICULATED SkyTrain cars mostly for the EXPO line so all trains 
could have 2 articulated cars and not one and would allow all the 4 car MK1 trains to have 6 cars, 
$100 mil to expand the SkyTrain depot 
$100 mil to add 200 new buses 
$50 for bus depot expansion 
$150mil for CommuterRail to the Fraser Valley {bassed on WCE costs, same due to inflation but no need to spend money on the important and already built WaterfrontStation................. which could also have a station at the all important Broadway/Commericial SkyTrain Expo/Millenium Interchange, 
$20mil to purchase 40 new CommuterBuses from northern Surrey/Langley to take HOV to Lougheed and then Broadway/Commercial and Downtown, 
$25mil for a new Seabus 
$50mil for FalseCreek/Gastown/Downtown/EnglishBay LRT & LRT car aquisition, 

All this comes in at $1.735bil just $15mil more for RAV subway and yet INCLUDES RAV. 
Also by purchasing all of these it also means it will free up lots of money later for the SkyTrain expansion to Cambie. 

If you put it in those terms I think your RAV study results would have been VERY VERY different.


----------



## mr.x

ssiguy2 said:


> Again, it is NOT that they are spending that much money on transit but rather RAV.
> 
> If you would have polled people if they wanted $1.72 bil for just RAV subway or the following for the same amount of money you would have gotten a very different response:
> 
> $900mil for LRT RAV which would still allow for a downtown subway,
> $250mil to add 100 ARTICULATED SkyTrain cars mostly for the EXPO line so all trains
> could have 2 articulated cars and not one and would allow all the 4 car MK1 trains to have 6 cars,
> $100 mil to expand the SkyTrain depot
> $100 mil to add 200 new buses
> $50 for bus depot expansion
> $150mil for CommuterRail to the Fraser Valley {bassed on WCE costs, same due to inflation but no need to spend money on the important and already built WaterfrontStation................. which could also have a station at the all important Broadway/Commericial SkyTrain Expo/Millenium Interchange,
> $20mil to purchase 40 new CommuterBuses from northern Surrey/Langley to take HOV to Lougheed and then Broadway/Commercial and Downtown,
> $25mil for a new Seabus
> $50mil for FalseCreek/Gastown/Downtown/EnglishBay LRT & LRT car aquisition,
> 
> All this comes in at $1.735bil just $15mil more for RAV subway and yet INCLUDES RAV.
> Also by purchasing all of these it also means it will free up lots of money later for the SkyTrain expansion to Cambie.
> 
> If you put it in those terms I think your RAV study results would have been VERY VERY different.


and where would the funding come from? $750 mil is coming from the feds/airport and $400 million is coming from the provincial government. That is $1.15 billion and that money will only be going towards RAV or it is nothing. The province and the airport would put their money back in the bank. The federal contribution would be dubbed down to $300 million and it would instead likely go towards the interior instead of the GVRD.

This leaves us with $570 million. $300 million will be coming from the private sector and that would be gone. 

What do we have left then? $370 million from Translink. It can hardly buy all the things you proposed. Maybe some streetcars, buses, new SkyTrain cars OR enough to make the Coquitlam Line a 13 minute ride or a 23 minute ride.

$1.72 billion (likely $1.78 billion in a few weeks as Translink is likely to approve dual tracks and turnstiles) is whats on the table ONLY for RAV, not general infrastructural improvements. Its either RAV or pocket change.


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## rt_0891

^ I agree. The GVRD and Translink has no access to the cashcow (income taxes & sales taxes) like US cities do, and instead they have to rely on Property taxes and beg for government handouts in order to fund for transit improvements+expansions. Of course, politics come into play, and Translink has to make do with whatever they can to receive maximum funding. Similiar situations are playing out in Toronto and all across the country...

For one, why Toronto's YorkU line gets first dibs into the provincial coffers is beyond me. (aside from political reasons)


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## ssiguy2

RAV would still get prov/fed/YVR cost sharing.
Commuter rail as well from the feds/ province as rail based.
SkyTrain cars would get fed help due to being Bombardier as well as SkyTrain Centre. 

I do understand what you are referring to but they could get the funding if they tried especially from the province. 
As stated earlier, someone wants a new BMW instead of a '93 Jetta but remember they seat the same number of people but with the difference you could buy 5 more of those Jettas. 
Calgary decided to have Jettas and it has turned into a BMW system at Chevy prices.


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## rt_0891

ssiguy2 said:


> RAV would still get prov/fed/YVR cost sharing.
> Commuter rail as well from the feds/ province as rail based.
> SkyTrain cars would get fed help due to being Bombardier as well as SkyTrain Centre.
> 
> I do understand what you are referring to but they could get the funding if they tried especially from the province.
> As stated earlier, someone wants a new BMW instead of a '93 Jetta but remember they seat the same number of people but with the difference you could buy 5 more of those Jettas.
> Calgary decided to have Jettas and it has turned into a BMW system at Chevy prices.


However, the province & Ottawa does want a showcase line when 2010 rolls by, and will likely take away the money to influence Translink to change its mind. Falcon did it once before to get RAV rolling in the first place. What this all boils down to is dirty politics. 

LRT unfortunately isn't really glitzy, and any additional traffic jams caused by the LRT wouldn't necessarily make them popular either.


----------



## Overground

I don't see what the big deal is. People in this city want the Canada Line and they want it underground. We don't want LRT, we aren't getting LRT and if you want LRT in your city then fine. You can have it, it's all yours. We aren't Calgary and we sure the hell ain't Portland. Meanwhile we will be enjoying are commute to work underground, quickly, efficiently and out of traffic for decades to come. This is a fact and it's going to happen..thank god! 
And this whole "creme de la creme" rubbish the past while is getting a bit old.


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## Plumber73

Well said Overground. This thing is going to be around for many years. A couple billion looks like a lot, but when you think about how long it should serve the city... It is proven technology that works for Vancouver. It is taking a long time, but eventually the bulk of Vancouver will be covered. 

I'm not very familiar with the Calgary system. From photos I've seen, it basically looks like a bus that is on rails. Has anyone used both the Calgary LRT and Skytrain? How do they compare? I rode the Skytrain last night and can't see something be much better. The cars came very frequently - like every minute or two. Very quick and smooth ride.


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## mr.x

Ok, so we've got 8 people who post in this topic and who are all from Vancouver who WANT RAV as it is verses 3 people who don't want the line as it is from god knows where. That really says something.


The feds won't put their money into the project unless it's something glamourous. The airport won't put money into the line unless the ride from point A to point B is no more than 25 minutes; LRT will be much longer than 25 minutes......and the province doesn't want LRT.


Calgary's Jetta may look like a BMW to you but it's no BMW to Vancouverites. 











The Coquitlam Line SHOULD BE SKYTRAIN. It makes so much sense and yet the provincial government can't cough up some pocket change to make it SkyTrain. I fear that the commute time will be a deterrent for people using the line (23 minutes). With SkyTrain, you can travel it at just 13 minutes: it's a huge difference and people will use it because it's so quick. It's the same scenario as RAV.


----------



## zonie

ssiguy2 said:


> RAV would still get prov/fed/YVR cost sharing.


What basis do you have for this statement?

The public's maximum supported travel time from the airport is 25 minutes. And YVR's money, as Mr. X mentioned again, was contingent on that 25 minute maximum. And so was the federal government's, at least according to this Wikipedia article: "contributions by the national government and the airport authority were contingent on service times that such a system [LRT] would not have been able to achieve". With slower LRT, you'd lose the support of all three parties, and $750 million.

Also, how about your $900 million LRT claim? The KPMG report stated a $1.1-1.2 billion project cost, going down Arbutus! Certainly, you should see how LRT would be more expensive along the chosen route. I don't think $1.4-1.5 would be out of the question. $900 million?! Even NES LRT will cost $800 million!


----------



## nname

mr.x said:


> The Coquitlam Line SHOULD BE SKYTRAIN. It makes so much sense and yet the provincial government can't cough up some pocket change to make it SkyTrain. I fear that the commute time will be a deterrent for people using the line (23 minutes). With SkyTrain, you can travel it at just 13 minutes: it's a huge difference and people will use it because it's so quick. It's the same scenario as RAV.


I also hope that it would be skytrain... but Port Moody doesn't like it. Right now, I take the 169 from Coq. Stn to Braid, and it takes an average of 15 min during peak and can be as fast as 9 min at night. The LRT would take at least 17 min to get to Lougheed Town Ctr... Unless they use skytrain-LRT hybrid cars so no transfer at Lougheed, I don't think I'll take the LRT (since it is much slower), and I guess many would think the same too


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## rt_0891

Nice sideview of Vancouver from Skytrain..


----------



## mr.x

> Also, how about your $900 million LRT claim? The KPMG report stated a $1.1-1.2 billion project cost, going down Arbutus! Certainly, you should see how LRT would be more expensive along the chosen route. I don't think $1.4-1.5 would be out of the question. $900 million?! Even NES LRT will cost $800 million!


Exactly! NES LRT is 11 km (2-3 km tunnel) and has 10 stations, RAV LRT is 19.5 km (at least 6 km tunnel) and has 18 stations and two bridges. The ratios don't add up. If Coquitlam is $800 million, RAV LRT will for sure be much much more especially if it already costs $1.1-1.2 billion just for Arbutus!





> I also hope that it would be skytrain... but Port Moody doesn't like it. Right now, I take the 169 from Coq. Stn to Braid, and it takes an average of 15 min during peak and can be as fast as 9 min at night. The LRT would take at least 17 min to get to Lougheed Town Ctr... Unless they use skytrain-LRT hybrid cars so no transfer at Lougheed, I don't think I'll take the LRT (since it is much slower), and I guess many would think the same too


Unfortunately, it doesn't look like the Coquitlam Line project will hit any snags. I don't see it becoming SkyTrain unless something very dramatic happens. Coquitlam's city council unaminously wanted SkyTrain, but the mayor is the only person that stands in their way to speaking to Translink's board of directors. The councillors also asked for more money for NES from the Ministry of Transportation, they didn't get a reply for months and that was a polite 'no' from Falcon.


nice picture RT!


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## mr.x

Regarding another issue, the Millenium Line SkyTrain extension to UBC, it should be underground SkyTrain to Arbutus so there can be a major transportation hub at Arbutus for bus, rapid bus, SkyTrain, and the future Arbutus corridor streetcar. From Arbutus, it should be rapid bus from Arbutus to UBC. I'm not sure if there's enough ridership (and capital funds) to build a subway from the existing Millenium Line all the way to UBC.

What the city plans:









With this plan made in 2000, they claim it will have 124,000-150,000 daily riders. The cost ($710 million) is outdated.


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## rt_0891

B-Line Stop


----------



## [email protected]

@ mr X, I noticed your latest posts are usually "exactly" and basically just taking other people's opinions and pretending its your own. I was absolutely correct to say that you simply don't know anything about the issue, which is no surprise given that you are just some bored 12 year old rich kid who wants both RAV and the Coquitlam Line as a means to joy ride. 

And if you really want Coquitlam Line to be Skytrain, well, let me see. If you make RAV Sky-train, then whatever surplus money for it would be used to upgrade the Coquitlam Line into Skytrain. But then again, you don't really give a damn about the Northeast given that all you care about is your wealthy neighborhood of Point Grey. 

And your wish the Coquitlam Line would hit snags is sick! Why would you want to deny a segment of your population decent rapid transit. Its not like the province would ever give funding for a Skytrain system to Coquitlam so why would you want to deny them the next best thing? Will you please stop thinking about yourself! 



mr.x said:


> Regarding another issue, the Millenium Line SkyTrain extension to UBC, it should be underground SkyTrain to Arbutus so there can be a major transportation hub at Arbutus for bus, rapid bus, SkyTrain, and the future Arbutus corridor streetcar. From Arbutus, it should be rapid bus from Arbutus to UBC. I'm not sure if there's enough ridership (and capital funds) to build a subway from the existing Millenium Line all the way to UBC.
> 
> What the city plans:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With this plan made in 2000, they claim it will have 124,000-150,000 daily riders. The cost ($710 million) is outdated.


Oh sure, when another rapid transit proposal comes to the Westside again, and this time straight to your neighborhood, it must be underground....SCREW THAT!!!! 



zonie said:


> Looks like someone's running out of straws to grasp at. :nuts:
> 
> I suggest you have a look at some of the Consultation & Public Survey Reports to see just how high the level of support for the Canada Line is. We're talking 79% of all Lower Mainlanders (mentioning a $1.5-1.7 billion shared project cost), and 81-90% of those in Vancouver & Richmond, depending on the question's phrasing. That's with Synovate-conducted, 500-person sample, random telephone surveys, plus further oversamples, for a 4.4% margin of error at a 95% confidence level.
> 
> Also, see how few people (<25%) in all the Lower Mainland support at-grade for this route, while levels of elevated & underground support are very close. And by far the most important aspect of using the Canada Line in the public's eye is speed - it has to be no more than 25 minutes from the Airport to Downtown and 30 minutes from Richmond Centre to Downtown. According to the other report I referred to before, it's unlikely LRT could manage these.
> 
> This line in its chosen form is very strongly supported throughout the entire region. It would be a tremendous waste of money to hold a GVRD-wide referendum!


Well, why is this not in a referendum then? You don't exactly let Ipsos Reid choose who your Prime Minister is, now do you? RAVCOs claim of public support is flawed for it never really officially asked the public in a fair democratic process. Surveys can be skewed so responses would be in favour of the line. Only a GVRD wide referendum would truly show if there is true support for the line at its current form. And if the public truly wants it as you claimed, then what is stopping them from initiating the referendum. As far as I know, the only waste of money is the tunneling requirement imposed by mr X and the creme de la creme...



Overground said:


> I don't see what the big deal is. People in this city want the Canada Line and they want it underground. We don't want LRT, we aren't getting LRT and if you want LRT in your city then fine. You can have it, it's all yours. We aren't Calgary and we sure the hell ain't Portland. Meanwhile we will be enjoying are commute to work underground, quickly, efficiently and out of traffic for decades to come. This is a fact and it's going to happen..thank god!
> And this whole "creme de la creme" rubbish the past while is getting a bit old.


The creme de la creme is the sole reason why RAV is underground. They are the reason why its tunneled while other parts of the GVRD have to contend with an elevated system. These people think they are hollier than the rest of the people in the GVRD and frankly, its sickening! And btw, Calgary and Portland has way better transit systems than the GVRD for our rapid transit systems give almost all our residents access as oppose to just a select lucky few in Vancouver, Burnaby, New West Richmond and North Surrey (there are 21 cities in the GVRD I believe).



ssiguy2 said:


> As stated earlier, someone wants a new BMW instead of a '93 Jetta but remember they seat the same number of people but with the difference you could buy 5 more of those Jettas.
> Calgary decided to have Jettas and it has turned into a BMW system at Chevy prices.


Your da man, ssiguy2!!!! kay:


----------



## officedweller

Interestingly, one of the factors mentioned in the NE Sector rapid transit studies is that the new NE line should not canibalize traffic from the WestCoast Express. I think that's one of the reasons why Translink favoured LRT - so that WCE would still be significantly faster. (Notwithsthanding that WCE is only a rush hours service).

BTW - the latest estimate for Seattle's LRT extension north to Northgate is over US$3 billion for 8 miles of line in tunnel. LRT isn't always cheap.


----------



## mr.x

> @ mr X, I noticed your latest posts are usually "exactly" and basically just taking other people's opinions and pretending its your own. I was absolutely correct to say that you simply don't know anything about the issue, which is no surprise given that you are just some bored 12 year old rich kid who wants both RAV and the Coquitlam Line as a means to joy ride.


Saying that over and over again doesn't make it so. These opinions have always been my own and it's not like this has been the first time ever that I've said these things, everything I have said here I have said before many times already. If anything, you just can't find a better excuse than the same old "12 year old creme de la creme who wants both RAV and the Coq. Line as a means to joy ride".......get a life loser, btw you don't even live in Vancouver anymore! 





> And if you really want Coquitlam Line to be Skytrain, well, let me see. If you make RAV Sky-train, then whatever surplus money for it would be used to upgrade the Coquitlam Line into Skytrain. But then again, you don't really give a damn about the Northeast given that all you care about is your wealthy neighborhood of Point Grey.


I've always said I wanted less tunnel on RAV, I've stressed that enough already. But your paranoia seems to ignore it. Have you really lived in Vancouver?....because West Point Grey is 10 km from where the RAV Line is built.






> And your wish the Coquitlam Line would hit snags is sick! Why would you want to deny a segment of your population decent rapid transit. Its not like the province would ever give funding for a Skytrain system to Coquitlam so why would you want to deny them the next best thing? Will you please stop thinking about yourself!


I want rapid transit in this part of the region, and I want to see the region build it right. An additional $200 million will make it all the difference between a rapid 13 minute ride or a slow 23 minute ride.






> Oh sure, when another rapid transit proposal comes to the Westside again, and this time straight to your neighborhood, it must be underground....SCREW THAT!!!!


and EVERY VANCOUVERITE HERE WOULD AGREE THAT SKYTRAIN TO ARBUTUS NEEDS TO BE UNDERGROUND, NOT BECAUSE IT'S IN THE WESTSIDE BUT BECAUSE THIS IS BEING BUILT AT ONE OF THE DENSEST AND MOST BUSIEST CORRIDORS IN THE WHOLE REGION!






> As far as I know, the only waste of money is the tunneling requirement imposed by mr X and the creme de la creme...


I love it, the paranoia of me wanting everything tunnelled. Makes you look like a fool and a lunatic after the 20 or more posts of me proving that not true. 

Your paranoia and hostility towards everybody who disagrees with you consumes you.







> Interestingly, one of the factors mentioned in the NE Sector rapid transit studies is that the new NE line should not canibalize traffic from the WestCoast Express. I think that's one of the reasons why Translink favoured LRT - so that WCE would still be significantly faster. (Notwithsthanding that WCE is only a rush hours service).


The WCE only serves 9,000 people and it already has efficiency problems???!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## officedweller

Hey, is someone psychic? Richmond wants to relocate the Alderbridge station to Lansdowne.

*RAV station relocation part of grand scheme *

By Martin van den Hemel
Staff Reporter
Jul 16 2005 

City hall wants Alderbridge stop shifted to Lansdowne

City hall wants one of its Richmond-Airport-Vancouver rapid transit stations relocated so that it will fit in with a vision to make Lansdowne Road a greenway connecting the Olympic oval and the Garden City lands.
On Monday, council agreed with a staff recommendation that refers to a request that RAV Project Management Ltd make the alteration.
As it stands now, the RAV plan is to build one of five Richmond stations at the corner of No. 3 Road and Alderbridge Way. The others would be located at Bridgeport Road, Capstan Way, Cambie Road and Saba Road.
But since the city has its eyes set on Lansdowne becoming a prime pedestrian and cycling thoroughfare between the $155 million long-track speed skating facility and the Garden City lands, which is up for development, making the switch makes sense.
The reason is that Lansdowne is going to become a major pedestrian/cycling greenway. We plan to push Lansdowne all the way through to link with the Oval site, the RAV line and of course the Garden City Lands," said City of Richmond spokesperson Ted Townsend.
And having the station closer to Lansdowne will also improve access not only to those major destinations but also Kwantlen."
Townsend said TransLink is apparently looking at extending the U-Pass system to Kwantlen.
They've had great success with ridership spiking at other post-secondary institutions where that's been introduced."
Cactus Club owner Jim Stewart said this is the first he's heard of this plan to build a RAV station near his business.
It could potentially be a good thing," he said of the potential increase in customer traffic.
However, the prospect of a station towering over his restaurant isn't that appealling.
Lansdowne Centre general manager Lorelei Guthrie said that while parking problems may result from the arrival of the RAV line, the benefits of the system far outweigh the downside.
In the long term, it's a good thing."
Naina Sloan, spokesperson for RAVCo, the TransLink subsidiary tasked with managing the construction of the $1.7 billion line, said RAVCo still hadn't received a formal request for the change in station locations.
But she said the relocation is minor.
It's a refinement. It's not a huge change."
It could have capital cost implications however, she said.
Whether or not the shift is possible, we still don't know."
The city has also suggested names for all five station, all of which would match the street location save for the Saba Road station. It should be called Brighouse station, the city suggested.
Since the city isn't in favour of using sponsorship and commercial names for local station names, RAV management will be advised of that. The city also wants input into the naming of the Sea Island stations on the arm of the line heading to the airport.


----------



## crazyjoeda

Wait, are there people in this thread that think RAV should be an LRT? I can see why you might think having in underground instead of elevated is a waste, but an LRT would be a total waste. We all ready have rapid bus service on what will be come RAV an LRT is only small step up, why build an LRT just to tear it down and build RAV for 2.5billion 15 years later? 

I would have prefered Skytrain for the NE sector line (I think its better value) but that area is low enough density that most of the line will be grade seperated. 


BTW that is a dope shot RT, cant wait till the Shangir-la and the other new skyscrapers are done.


----------



## zonie

Wally said:


> Well, why is this not in a referendum then? You don't exactly let Ipsos Reid choose who your Prime Minister is, now do you? RAVCOs claim of public support is flawed for it never really officially asked the public in a fair democratic process. Surveys can be skewed so responses would be in favour of the line.


I see you have no faith in statistics, but even as someone with just a tiny bit of statistics background, let me tell you that a 30-40% margin of support on separate samples of that size (conducted roughly one year apart) is not going to suddenly vanish when put to a referendum - no way! Holding one would be an absolutely needless waste of millions.

Also note that questions were posed in a number of different ways to reduce skewed results. Not to mention, several other formal/informal polls conducted by a number of different groups also asked the question at many points in time in a whole variety of ways, and I don't think I've ever seen one that hasn't shown strong support.


----------



## rt_0891

Burrard Bridge with Cars...










Burrard Bridge with Bikes...




























Burrard Bridge with Cars, Bikes and Pedestrians (current configuration)  that's squishy ...










-------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
Council votes to turn two of six lanes on Burrard Bridge into dedicated bike lanes*

Doug Ward	
Vancouver Sun

Wednesday, July 20, 2005

Vancouver city council voted Tuesday to turn two of six lanes on the Burrard Bridge into dedicated bike lanes -- a one-year experiment set to begin next April.

"This is the happiest day of my time on city council," said COPE councillor Fred Bass, who proposed the motion authorizing the plan, which received overwhelming support, with only NPA councillor Sam Sullivan opposed.

"I became a city councillor because of global warming," Bass said after the vote. "And it seems to me that what we have here is a very feasible way of testing out whether we can mobilize people to walk and cycle and for people to leave their cars behind."

The city tried a similar bike-lane experiment in 1996, closing one lane to cars and opening it to cyclists. The trial was meant to be extended over a period of months but was called off after one week because of motorist outrage and escalating hostility between drivers and cyclists.

*The new bike-lane resolution went against a staff report that warned last month that the closure of two curb lanes would increase traffic congestion and slow transit and the movement of goods.*

City staff instead recommended spending $13 million to widen the sidewalk on both sides of the Burrard Bridge as the best option for improving downtown access for cyclists and pedestrians.

*The curb lane closure experiment was criticized by Charles Gauthier, executive-director of the Downtown Vancouver Business Improvement Association, who predicted increased congestion.* "This council decision doesn't make a lot of sense to us, especially since city staff had made dire predictions about what would happen with lane closures."

Gauthier said the one-year trial will only confirm what the city learned during the 1996 experiment -- that the lane closures would generate congestion and increase transit times.

Cycling advocates were delighted by the council decision. "I'm thrilled," said Bonnie Fenton of the Vancouver Cycling Coalition.

"It's a victory for everybody, but it's going to take a little bit of patience and faith to see that this is an experiment that can work."

*Fenton said there will be delays and some motorist anger during the trial's initial phase, "but as has been shown elsewhere, those delays get reduced over time as people develop new routes and new habits."*

*Bass said he's optimistic that the experiment will work this time because the lane closure will be accompanied by an intensive program promoting cycling and walking across Burrard Bridge and alerting motorists to alternative routes, such as the Granville Bridge.
*
Council also asked staff to proceed with the design review of the sidewalk-widening proposal.

The bike lane experiment will be assessed by staff at six-month and one-year intervals. If there is a consensus on council to abandon the bike lanes, staff will proceed with the widening of the sidewalks.

*Council also instructed staff to examine transit changes and HOV lanes to help reduce the number of single-occupant vehicles crossing Burrard Bridge into the downtown.*

About whether he is ready to deal with irate drivers, Bass said: "Motorists called for my head long ago and my head is still on my neck."

[email protected]

CROWDED CROSSING:

Each hour during peak times, 8,000 to 9,000 people cross the Burrard Bridge.

Lone drivers 49%

Car poolers 21%

Transit riders 21%

Cyclists 5%

Walkers 4%

Source: City of Vancouver, Vancouver Sun
© The Vancouver Sun 2005


----------



## Plumber73

What is this talk about congestion? For all three bridges (Burrard, Granville, and Cambie) cars scream across no problem. Bike lanes taking over part of Burrard is not going to make things that bad or harm the economy :blahblah: 

Part of the reason there are so few cyclists is because it's too dangerous mixing it up with cars. Talk to any person who cycles to work and they'll tell you stories I'm sure.


----------



## rt_0891

* TransLink makes natural gas commitment*

Last updated Jul 20 2005 01:30 PM PDT
CBC News

The TransLink board has decided to spend more than $60 million on natural gas buses – instead of diesel – to replace its fleet of aging diesel models.

A staff report had recommended that the transit authority buy 107 diesel buses, saying they would be cheaper to buy and maintain – which would mean more new buses on the road.

But Vancouver Mayor Larry Campbell told the board that buying diesel again would mean a 20-year commitment to greater pollution in Greater Vancouver.

And he challenged board members to back up their support for the environment with action. "I don't know how directors can say they're committed to the environment and sustainability and then buy diesel buses."

Campbell is happy with the board's decision. But he's still critical of the plan to buy new diesel buses instead of natural gas.

"This is a proven technology, it's clean, it will make the air better here, it's not going to be any more expensive and let's get on with life."

There's no word yet on how many new buses will be purchased. They'll hit the road by September 2007.

The transit authority plans to buy a total of 1,000 new buses in the next 10 years.


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## mr.x

Buying 1,000 buses in the next ten years? wow.


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## ssiguy2

Buying a 1000 new buses is great but will it increase the fleet or just replace the ones they have?? Any of those articulates?


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## mr.x

ssiguy2 said:


> Buying a 1000 new buses is great but will it increase the fleet or just replace the ones they have?? Any of those articulates?


It'll increase the fleet by 33%.


----------



## en

SkyTrain hires mystery shoppers to check service
Hired spies to report on travel experience and treatment by employees

Frank Luba	
The Province	

July 20, 2005

ADVERTISEMENT	



What SkyTrain boss Doug Kelsey sees as a way to improve service is being called spying by one of the transit unions.

Kelsey plans to send mystery shoppers out to see how employees treat customers and what the customers experience while using the service.

He's used the research system, which employs an independent company, on West Coast Express and in his prior corporate experience at Shell and Starbucks.

"This is common in the service industry," said Kelsey, adding that the practice is common in the hotel and airline industry, and employed by Canadian Tire -- and even AirCare.

"It's how to manage if you are taking care of the business you said you're taking care of," he said.

That business ranges from cleaning stations and SkyTrain cars to making announcements and answering questions.

Gerry Cunningham, president of Local 7000 of the Canadian Union of Public Employees, said SkyTrain attendants and maintenance staff should be concerned about the technique.

"I think people better be aware," said Cunningham, who represents about 520 employees. "The SkyTrain attendants should keep their heads up. From my perspective, they are being spied upon."

Kelsey disagrees.

"Is it always about people? No," he said. "It's about the experience from the customers' lens.

"One of the big issues we get is visibility. Are our people out and about?"

Cunningham said that issue could be addressed by hiring more staff.

Usually there are just 40 SkyTrain attendants working at any one time, with two going up and down each line checking fares. That leaves 36 attendants for 33 stations.

"It'll be awful hard for our members to walk around with a smiley face on their face for 10 hours," said Cunningham.

Kelsey estimates the mystery shopper research will cost $60,000 to $100,000 a year.

[email protected]


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## mr.x

There should be 80 attendants and officers working at one time.


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## rt_0891

That Mystery Shopper job would be a great part-time.


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## officedweller

Translink also approved double tracking the RAV Line between Bridgeport Station and Cambie Station in Richmond.


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## [email protected]

^ Great....more additional costs. I wonder how many more concessions Translink will end up approving through the course of the RAV Line. I can see it now....

1) 2011, we need more millions from the Capital Projects fund to pay SNC Lavalin for the ridership shortfall for the year
2) 2012, we need more millions from the Capital Projects fund to pay SNC Lavalin for the ridership shortfall for the year
.
.
.
35) 2045, SNC Lavalin contract expires, finally money freed up to build the Broadway Line and replace those 38 year old buses and trolley buses we received 2007... :|


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## Plumber73

^  Cheer up mate!


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## mr.x

^ well, pessimistic is his name.


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## [email protected]

Well, better a pessimist that an oppressive self centered 12 year old creme de la creme who thinks people who will never use the RAV Line in their lives and yet desperately need rapid transit improvements that they can never get because of RAV should still pay for his toy train. I suppose he does not care much for the rest of Translink projects since he is getting his little toy that he can play with at the expense of his poorer neighbors. And his attitudes towards those less fortunate than him is clearly shown at his making fun of those impoverish folks clinging on trains in India... :|


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## sukh

^ Yeah well get used to it, because its getting built wheather you like it or not. You can just sit there on your pansy LRT transit in Portland, because you are just in the minority, in a city you have to look at the majority, but also whats right, and like i said before i agree with you on the tunneling aspect, but other than that, everything else is fine.


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## sukh

Double post.


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## Guerrero

I haven't lived in the Lower Mainland for quite some time but I grew up in Tsawwassen. The worst part about going to Vancouver as a kid was taking the bus into Vancouver, it took forever.

The RAV line is going to make that Journey a thousand times better with the transfer at Bridgeport Station. It is going to increase transit ridership from Tsawwassen and Ladner by quite a lot I would expect, though only if there is an increase in amount of the busses to take people there.


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## npinguy

Wally said:


> Why thank you sukh! Yes, npinguy is an idiot. He has no back up and thinks whatever he says is the truth.


Wait wait wait.

YOU are the one who has so far named TWO industrial parks and have whined about how they have no bus access. While I'M the one who has described in detail how they actually DO, and provided the proof to back it up.

and I'M the one that has no backup and thinks what I say is the truth?

Wow man. You're more full of shit than I ever imagined. It's getting embarassing.



> I kinda suspect he is one of those typical Vancouver trolls, possibly even benji45 himself, who thinks Vancouver is so perfect (and he admits it too) that it is immuned to legitimate criticism.


Once again.........Here is a thread about Vancouver public transit and every vancouverite on the forum supports it and gathers that the public opinion is largely supportive of it as well.

Meanwhile YOU are a guy who doesn't even live in Vancouver, on whom this has absolutely no impact whatsoever. Yet you come in here, and bash the system, and all vancouverites. You bash it with criticisms that you do not back up. And you even lie, and distort, and get facts completely wrong.

And yet I'M the troll. WOW......


As for legitimate criticisms - 
So far you've made only 1 or 2 legitimate criticisms, and if you look carefully you'll see I responded to them. 



> I admit, my achilles heal is not being in Vancouver today but given that I was there during this whole RAV fiasco and still follow the news simply because of my interest in urban transit (and what not to do), I assure you I do know what I'm talking about and continue to backup my claims.


Right, like that commerce parkway and inex pharmaceuticals have no bus access, and all the other claims of yours that i have thorougly destroyed.



> One thing I would like to point out though is when discussing urban planning, I believe the one being referred to is the GVRD, not just the city of Vancouver.


I'm not going to diss the GVRD because I love it but you are incorrect. Primarily when developers from other cities look to Vancouver, they look to predominantly Vancouver, especially the construction around false creek.



> But when it comes to new urbanism and rail transit planning, a lot do come to Portland. I've heard or must have seen somewhere that even Translink went to Portland to look at how our MAX LRT works and lessons they can learn with regards to their Northeast Line.


Rail planning - yes. Portland's LRT is nice, and it would fit well for the Northeast line. But new ubranism? In your dreams. How'bout backing that fact up.

You can find information anywhere of Dubai, San Diego, Toronto, and many others looking to Vancouver for inspiration for projects. Find me something about anybody coming to portland to learn about new urbanism.




IN CONCLUSION, I absolutely adore people like you Wally. You are SO completely and utterly full of crap that it's incredibly easy to make you look like a fool. Here's how it works:

You (or anyone like you): "X sucks because of blah blah blah and Y"
Me (or anyone like me): "Well actually you are completely full of shit because you got it completely wrong about Y. You are wrong and here's why blah blah."
You: "<pause> You are biased, and X sucks because of blah blah blah and Y"

You completely ignore any efforst made to counteract your points, and simply repeat them over and over mindlessly. I love that.




> Because some people here are so damn defensive that they would bash successful transit systems elsewhere in a futile attempt to validate their twisted illogical mindsets that Vancouver's transit system is "perfect", even though it clearly is not.


Actually, in case you've forgotten (and I know you haven't, but i digress), it's you and others that have STARTED to bash the vancouver transit system, and brought up the C-train to show how it SHOULD'VE been done instead.

So instead we point out how the C-train just wouldn't work for Vancouver (and i gave valid reasons? remember them? of course you do.) But because you guys just do not get it, we have to resort to going down to your level and go with mindless bashing like so:

"The C-Train blows. End of story."




Wally said:


> Well, better a pessimist that an oppressive self centered 12 year old creme de la creme who thinks people who will never use the RAV Line in their lives and yet desperately need rapid transit improvements that they can never get because of RAV should still pay for his toy train. I suppose he does not care much for the rest of Translink projects since he is getting his little toy that he can play with at the expense of his poorer neighbors. And his attitudes towards those less fortunate than him is clearly shown at his making fun of those impoverish folks clinging on trains in India... :|


jesus christ give it up already. I have already established you're full of shit. Stop the bitching. You're only making yourself look worse.

BY THE WAY. You're gonna love this. I just started a new job this monday. It's at an industrial park in Burnaby - around Gilmore and Canada way. I take the millenium line every day.

Guess what. In the morning? Packed. In the afternoon? Packed. Packed to the brims. 

Maybe the overall total ridership is still low because it's not as packed in the off-peak hours, but just the peak hour ridership alone justifies it's existence in my opinion. And I know my fellow riders agree with me.




mr.x said:


> It seems like you've contradicted yourself a hundred times in this post.


mr. x i agree with you on many things but don't do that. if you're gonna call somebody out, you gotta give reasons for it. You gotta POINT OUT how they contradict themselves if you want to do that. Otherwise you hurt our side.


----------



## crazyjoeda

Guerrero said:


> It is going to increase transit ridership from Tsawwassen and Ladner by quite a lot I would expect, though only if there is an increase in amount of the busses to take people there.


It will double the frequency of all express buses because bridge port is about half the travel time of downtown (depending on which express bus route), all the buses will then turn around thus vastly increasy the freqency (I would expect an average of 50% more service on Express bus routes). 

*RAV will save express bus riders a huge amount of time. Currently the worst congestion that faces the express buses starts befor the Oak Street Bridge and ends at Downtown, there is really bad congestion at the Tunnel but buses avoid this with the HOV lanes. Once RAV is inplace Express bus riders will avoid all major traffic congestion.

The buses will get off well befor the Oak Steet bridge, and the riders will then ride RAV from Bridge Port to downtown in less than 20min riding under all the traffic. 

This will save the 55,000 people who use the express buses every week day about 25min during both the morning and afternoon rush hour, which account for 70% of the week day ridership. *


----------



## Guerrero

^ That sounds truly awesome. I don't think that people can truly understand how vastly the RAV is going to change the nature of travel in Vancouver yet. It is only 4 years away and people seem to think that it is the distant future. 

Also the airport branch is going to be to add a lot of day visitors to downtown. I often travel and if I am doing a layover somewhere and there is a train to the downtown core I will usually take it even if it is just for a few hours. If there is only bus service I won't usually risk it.


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## EdZed

I agree to that there should be more cctv on buses and trains. But the only problem would many people would oppose to it saying it violates there privacy and im not sure that the government would want to put up with all the lawsuits.


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## hkskyline

From http://www.natransit.com


----------



## addisonwesley

LA PACE!


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## mr.x

addisonwesley said:


> LA PACE!


don't start now.


----------



## Zim Flyer

EdZed said:


> I agree to that there should be more cctv on buses and trains. But the only problem would many people would oppose to it saying it violates there privacy and im not sure that the government would want to put up with all the lawsuits.


after what has been going on in London, it has been quite useful in recording the faces of the terrorists.


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## Guerrero

There is nothing wrong with CCTVs on busses and skytrain. So long as there are strict rules for their use. 

For example if a camera picture is going to be put on TV only the suspect's face should be visible the rest should be blocked out. 

In Victoria the Double decker buses already have a camera for the driver to monitor what is going on on the upper deck.

That Trolley bus looks awesome!


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## hkskyline

Traditionally double decker buses all have monitoring devices. Before the arrival of webcams on the upper deck, a mirror is installed on a corner while an opening that leads to the driver's cab. The driver can see the entire upper deck.


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## Guerrero

that sounds pretty cool I will have to check out some of the old busses here in town.


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## hkskyline

If the steering wheel is on the right, then go up to the front row seat and look for a mirror on the upper right corner. Then look down to the panel by the right side seat and you'll see an opening leading down to the driver's cab.


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## EdZed

I love Victoria's double decker buses i wish Calgary would get some but there are too many low bridges leading out of downtown.


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## Guerrero

When Victoria first got them they had to raise a couple of pedestrian and rail bridges so they could get underneath. The one major drawback of them became apparent last winter. During the one snow storm we had the double deckers all get stuck because there is some sort of anti spin lock on the tires. If the busses lost traction then the brakes locked so pretty much all of them had to be towed off the road. While all the New Flyer busses cruised around no problem.


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## mrtfreak

In Singapore, the newer metro trains have CCTVs in all cars. They aren't big, most people don't notice them either. But it is good in the vent of a terrorist attack where investigators can review what went on in the train or bus. They are planning to upgrade the older trains and busses here to have CCTVs in them as well.

I don't understand, why is it considered a violation of privacy when it is public transport?


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## zivan56

I would rather have money spent on stuff that is actually going to be useful for people using transit. Each d60lf would need 3 cameras, each mk I skytrain 4, each mk II 12, each normal bus needing 1, etc. This would be quite expensive, and wouldnt do much other than give us a false sense of security...


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## bs_lover_boy

The trolley bus doesn't look that bad from the outside after all.

ALSO, can anyone tell me if the RAV preliminary construction (ie. moving of utilities etc..) has begun yet because they say that construction starts at like Aug 2005.


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## officedweller

For most of the line they are still doing geotechnical testing - ie. bore holes.

The first part to start will be the North Arm of the Fraser bridge. They have to do that at this time of year to avoid impacts on fish habitat - otherwise they'd have to wait a whole year.


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## EdZed

What type of bridge are they building over the fraser? Hopefully it is like the same one next to the patullo bridge.


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## officedweller

renderings show cable-stayed with needle towers (as opposed to Skybridge or Alex Fraser where the traffic goes through the towers - this will see trains go around the towers (like the Millau Viaduct style).

From RAV Info Bulletin No. 5:


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## mr.x

^ that's gonna look so awesome. something to really look at when tourists arrive here in 2010. kinda reminds me of that bridge in Hong Kong, only much smaller.


----------



## hkskyline

Many buses in London already have CCTV and the televisions on board actually show the CCTV's views once in a while.


----------



## nikko

The still build trolley buses? wow, that's pretty crazy.

In Brisbane, we have had cameras on trains for years and the council is starting to put cameras into buses, they're no big deal really. Everyone seems to be fine with them.


----------



## officedweller

SNC-Lavalin (InTransitBC) formally signed with RAVco. The announcement is in the new Bulletin No 9 on the RAV site, including a funding agency cost breakdown. It also says that InTransitBC is contributing $635 Million over the 35 year term of the contract:

http://www.ravprapidtransit.com/en/rav_updates.php

Bulletin No. 9 includes these two pics of the North Arm bridge.


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## mr.x

holy shit is that awesome.....looks like a exact mini-replica of Skybridge. since this is the first real rendering of the line, i guess we can expect station renderings soon.


----------



## officedweller

If you look closely, the train passes on the outsides of the towers, not through it and the cables support the bridge deck along a single axis between the guideways (down the middle of the bridge deck).

For Skybridge the train passes through the tower and the cables support the bridge deck on the outside edges of the bridge deck. 

This will be the first cable stayed suspension bridge of its kind in the GVRD. Its cable arrangement is like the Millau Viaduct in France.

Compare with these pics of Skybridge and the Millau Viaduct:


----------



## officedweller

Also found this pic of the North Arm bridge on the Buckland & Taylor website:

http://www.b-t.com/latest.htm

*RAV North Arm Crossing, BC, Canada*

_Buckland & Taylor Ltd., as a sub-consultant to SNC Lavalin, was awarded the contract to provide the design for an extrados bridge for the Richmond-Airport-Vancouver (RAV) Rapid Transit North Arm Crossing. The estimated date of completion is 2008. _


----------



## rt_0891

*Final RAV deal up by $180 million**
Winning bidder, two new partners will cover the increase*

William Boei
Vancouver Sun

Wednesday, August 03, 2005

VANCOUVER - *A final deal to build the Richmond-Airport-Vancouver rapid transit line was unveiled Tuesday with a price tag of $1.9 billion, up $180 million from the previous estimate of $1.72 billion.*

Construction will begin as early as *mid-September.
*
*Taxpayers are not on the hook for the increase. It will be covered by the winning bidder for the RAV Line, SNC-Lavalin, and two new partners who stepped forward Tuesday: The B.C. Investment Management Corp. and the Caisse de depot et placement du Quebec, which operate huge public-sector pension-plan investment pools in their respective provinces.*

The three companies are equal partners in InTransitBC, which will build and operate the RAV Line.

"We've now finalized our contract with InTransitBC, and that allows us to commence construction," said Jane Bird, chief executive of Ravco, the TransLink subsidiary overseeing the project.

"After much planning and discussion, we're really in a position to break ground."

Bird said the public-sector contribution to the RAV Line is virtually unchanged at $1.25 billion.

"We have a fixed price contract with InTransitBC with a firm delivery date of November 2009," she said.

The last details of the deal were settled Friday and the contract signed early Saturday.

The final tally of capital investment in the line shows the *federal government is contributing about $419 million, the B.C. government $235 million, TransLink $245 million, the Vancouver International Airport Authority $321 million and the City of Vancouver -- which is paying for an extra station it wants built -- $27 million, for total public investment of $1.247 billion.*

InTransitBC is investing $657 million, for a total of $1.9 billion.

Asked if InTransitBC can make a profit over the term of its 35-year contract to build and operate the line, public affairs vice-president Steve Crombie said, "Yes, absolutely."

Crombie said InTransitBC was able to attract additional investment because the RAV Line is considered to be "a very solid project."

"We've also been able to identify some cost savings and operating revenue from the line that have made it easier to attract private-sector financing."

InTransitBC has already handed a construction contract to SNC-Lavalin worth about $1.5 billion.

Taxpayers are insulated from construction cost overruns, which are InTransitBC's responsibility. SNC-Lavalin, which is building projects all over the world from the new Bennett Bridge at Kelowna to a liquid natural gas converter in Algeria and a sulphuric acid plant in Russia, is experienced at keeping costs down, said senior vice-president Jim Burke.

*TransLink -- and Greater Vancouver taxpayers -- do face some risk after the line opens if ridership falls short of projections. Because it's in charge of setting ticket prices, promoting the line and providing feeder bus lines, ridership shortfalls are TransLink's responsibility.*

Don Toffaletto, a long-time opponent of the RAV Line, said he thinks that will be a problem.

"The people who are eventually going to pay for this are Greater Vancouver taxpayers," said Toffaletto, co-chair of the Re-Think Rav Coalition.

Toffaletto said neither the Expo Line nor the Millennium Line has achieved ridership projections and he expects the RAV Line to fall short as well.

The project faces one more legal challenge from another group, the Do Rav Right Coalition, a group of merchants and residents along Cambie Street who object to the amount of cut-and-cover construction, fearing it will disrupt their businesses and their lives. The group has filed a court appeal seeking to have the project stopped or changed, but Bird indicated Ravco isn't worried and construction will start immediately.

Toffaletto wasn't convinced.

"I'm not so sure that it's unstoppable," he said. "It may still fall apart."

Ravco said it will publish a "final project report" before the end of the year reviewing the bidding process for the RAV Line. In Victoria, Auditor-General Wayne Strelioff said he had accepted Ravco's invitation to examine the report.

Early construction activity will include building a precast concrete facility at Kent and Fraser in south Vancouver that will make some of the tunnel, bridge and guideway segments for the line.

In mid to late September, some streets will be dug up in Vancouver and Richmond to relocate electric, water and sewer lines along the route.

Work on bridges spanning the north and middle arms of the Fraser River will likely begin in October.

The east-side lanes of Cambie Street near Queen Elizabeth Park will likely be closed late in the fall and two-way traffic will be routed along the west-side lanes. However, cut-and-cover construction won't begin until late 2006.

[email protected]

RAV CHANGES:

The final version of the RAV line is still recognizable as the project approved last year by TransLink. But some of the details have changed. It's a 20-kilometre SkyTrain-like rapid transit line connecting downtown Vancouver with the airport and Richmond. That hasn't changed. These things have:

- Instead of $1.72 billion, it will cost $1.9 billion.

- Thirty-seven blocks along the route, two on Granville Mall and 35 on Cambie Street, will be built using cut-and-cover construction instead of deep tunnel-boring.

- It will have 16 stations. That number has fluctuated; most recently the Airport Authority has cut its plan from four stations to three, but the City of Vancouver has agreed to pay $27 million to have an extra station built at Cambie and Second Avenue. There are plans to build as many as four stations later: two more along Cambie Street, a third in Richmond and a fourth at the airport.

- A 1.7-kilometre stretch of the RAV line on Sea Island will run at grade instead of on an elevated guideway.

- A 650-metre segment on Sea Island will be single- rather than double-tracked.

- The RAV line bridge over the north arm of the Fraser River will include bicycle and pedestrian paths.

Ran with fact box "RAV Changes", which has been appended to the end of the story.

© The Vancouver Sun 2005


----------



## mr.x

it'll probably top of at $2 billion when finished or maybe $2.1. it's a good deal. the private sector is responsible for so much and when it's completed, Translink will give InTransitBC a nudge on quality control.


----------



## officedweller

more updates - Annual Report for 2004 and 2005 2nd Qtr Report

http://www.ravprapidtransit.com/en/whatsnew.php

The 2004 Annual Report confirms the line will be called the Canada Line.


----------



## crazyjoeda

From what i've been seeing this project looks really good. This will be such an asset to Vancouver and i'm really happy with how this project is going.


----------



## npinguy

i'd still prefer a station at 16th but meh...


----------



## nname

hmm... I think the broadway/city hall station will actually be located between 10 and 12th ave... that should be close enough to 16th ave I think..


----------



## npinguy

nname said:


> hmm... I think the broadway/city hall station will actually be located between 10 and 12th ave... that should be close enough to 16th ave I think..



it's certainly not TOO far but i want the area around 16th to be densified and i don't know if you could "sell" that idea to developers to make them want to build taller buildings unless it feels as if it's right next to a skytrain station


(incidentally i live at 14th and cambie)


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## officedweller

I think Cambie will still fall under the main streets densification policy - i.e. midrises not high rises. Mind you, Olive is taller than the standard 4 storeys you see on West Broadway. Pacifica is on the site of the former BC Transit bus yard, so it's a bigger than average site. 

Did anyone notice that the reports say that the King Edward Station was relocated from the SE corner to the NW (strip mall) corner? So they had planned to build the station on the site of the well-known haunted house! That would have been weird.


----------



## npinguy

officedweller said:


> I think Cambie will still fall under the main streets densification policy - i.e. midrises not high rises. Mind you, Olive is taller than the standard 4 storeys you see on West Broadway. Pacifica is on the site of the former BC Transit bus yard, so it's a bigger than average site.
> 
> Did anyone notice that the reports say that the King Edward Station was relocated from the SE corner to the NW (strip mall) corner? So they had planned to build the station on the site of the well-known haunted house! That would have been weird.


well we need SOME place to put more highrises. Oakridge should be one place.

the area from broadway to 25th should be another



i know so far no rezoning has been done yet but i think it will in the future - and those areas are where it needs to be. Instead of 2 story buildings with commercial stores at the bottom they need to demolish those and build 20+story buildings with the commercial stores at the bottom


----------



## officedweller

Agreed that Oakridge should have some highrises - but I think that the neighbourhood that could take the most highrises (within the City of Vancouver) is Broadway and Commercial. Even 20+ storeys in a cluster. 

I think there'll be a fight to demolish those rental walk-ups along Cambie north of King Edward. 

I think I'd rather see highrises in clusters (at rapid transit stations) rather than lined up along main streets. (Though Broadway is an example of a line of highrises).


----------



## eduardo89

they should densify the areas around all the rav stations into 10-20 story mid rises. they should have clusters of densified areas instead of densifying all of cambie street. does anyone know whats happening to the bus depot on 41st? are they building liek townhouses or mid rises? or doing sumthing else with it...?


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## bs_lover_boy

eduardo89 said:


> they should densify the areas around all the rav stations into 10-20 story mid rises. they should have clusters of densified areas instead of densifying all of cambie street. does anyone know whats happening to the bus depot on 41st? are they building liek townhouses or mid rises? or doing sumthing else with it...?



Richmond is densifying already!!!


----------



## mr.x

eduardo89 said:


> they should densify the areas around all the rav stations into 10-20 story mid rises. they should have clusters of densified areas instead of densifying all of cambie street. does anyone know whats happening to the bus depot on 41st? are they building liek townhouses or mid rises? or doing sumthing else with it...?


We don't know yet....but the Oakridge area has the potential of being the next Metrotown. condos! condos! condos!.....and office towes.................


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## crazyjoeda

*What Will Vancouver's RAV Be Called?*

The line will be called the "Canada line" and will undoubtably have red for its colour. 

What I was woundering is will it be officaly refered to as skytrain? I think most people will refer to it as that anyways and it looks just like skytrain in the below picture. 










The fact is that most of the line will run under ground and it will be differnt technology, but I was just in London and I realized that the Underground isn't always underground and the system is so old that there are significant differences between the older lines and the newest one.


*What do you think?*


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## mr.x

It should officially be called SkyTrain. It'll be the generic name of our rapid transit system just like Hong Kong's MTR, the TTC, and of course the London Underground. Not only should the Canada Line be called SkyTrain, the Coquitlam Line should follow suit as well.


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## [email protected]

^ Oh please! It should only be called Skytrain if it truly is Sky-Train! A train high up in the sky!!!! High above the homes of the creme de la creme!


----------



## [email protected]

mr.x said:


> it'll probably top of at $2 billion when finished or maybe $2.1. it's a good deal. the private sector is responsible for so much and when it's completed, Translink will give InTransitBC a nudge on quality control.


If its such a good deal, then why are GVRD taxpayers, including those who live in West Vancouver, Maple Ridge, etc are on the hook if the 100k ridership a day does not materialize? Ridership forecasts is the hardest part to predict in ANY transit project and given that it is required that there are 100k ppl using RAV a day for the next 35 years (I'm assuming this includes weekends and holidays), why this is passed to the GVRD taxpayers is beyond me. I hope municipalities getting shafted do the right thing and separate from this poorly managed region. A fair PPP project should pass the risks entirely to the private consortium since it is they that would ultimately profit from it.


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## Overground

I think we need to have one uniform name for our entire system so it doesn't get confusing for newcomers or even residents that don't always use it. I don't have a problem with calling it Skytrain but it is odd that a line that isn't Skytrain and goes mainly underground would be called Skytrain. I was thinking the entire system could be called a Metro or something similar. I really don't think Translink has even thought of this yet.


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## samsonyuen

Why not call it the Skytrain? As you said the Underground isn't underground all the way in London. Nor is the "El" in Chicago elevated all the way either.


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## eduardo89

Wally said:


> ^ Oh please! It should only be called Skytrain if it truly is Sky-Train! A train high up in the sky!!!! High above the homes of the creme de la creme!



what is with ur obsession with the creme de la creme?


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## Overground

eduardo89 said:


> what is with ur obsession with the creme de la creme?


I agree. It's getting a bit old.


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## Bitxofo

Canada Red line!


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## addisonwesley

Richmond-Airport-Vancouver line. Excellent.


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## officedweller

The Annual Report said it would be called the "Canada Line". The fact it's being called a "line" means it'll probably be branded as part of the existing system - i.e. Skytrain - likely with Translink colours since Translink retains control of marketing. 

As others have mentioned, the Underground isn't always underground, the Subway isn't always undergound, and the El isn't always elevated. The Canada Line will be elevated for a signficant part of its length - on Sea Island and in Richmond. 

As for Wally's obsession with the creme de la creme - he's probably gearing up for a Portland creme battle:

http://www.wweek.com/story.php?story=6569

**************
NEWS STORY 

*A STREETCAR NAMED QUAGMIRE 
Ritzy residences rail against possible streetcar extension. *

BY BRANDON HARTLEY
bhartley at wweek.com

While the Portland Streetcar grinds toward South Waterfront, the line's potential further extension is generating "not in my backyard'' shouts from well-heeled residents along the Willamette River.

The NIMBYism alert ahead from wealthy homeowners comes as Metro enters the early stages of an 18-month study of transportation options between Portland and Lake Oswego.

Traffic projections on already-congested Highway 43 estimate an increase of up to 25 percent over the next two decades on the narrow, four-lane highway. One solution: a roughly seven-mile extension of the streetcar into downtown Lake Oswego, rumbling past palatial homes with values as high as $3 million in Riverwood, Dunthorpe and Briarwood.

Richard Brandman, Metro's transportation planning director, calls the idea "at the embryonic stage" and promises extensive public involvement. If the streetcar proposal survives Metro's study, construction on the rail option lies at least four years away, Brandman says.

But Charles Ormsby, a neighborhood activist in Briarwood, is worried now about extending the streetcar along the Willamette Shore Rail Line past cliffs and through a limited-access tunnel.

"There's three concerns: Solitude. Security. Safety," Ormsby says. "These are quiet neighborhoods. Plus, the drivers sit behind locked doors. What if something happens as these trains pass over the steep hills around Riverdale?"

Among his concerns: cop response time to muggers, crazies, terrorism, accidents, and potential earthquakes.

Briarwood homeowner William Gilmer says the streetcar "would do absolutely nothing for our neighborhood," both reducing property values and killing his plans to build a second house nearby.

In Riverwood, the line comes within 6 feet of several backyards, porches, living-room windows and one tennis court. Further down the line in Briarwood, it sits within a few dozen feet of houses.

An antique excursion trolley uses the line primarily from May through October, completing 20 two-hour round trips a week between Lake Oswego and Portland. The Portland Streetcar, which hits downtown stops every 13 minutes on weekdays, would pass by much more often every day of the year.

The streetcar extension isn't Metro's only option. Other ideas under consideration include a river transit service and a rapid bus line that could require pullouts or its own lane on Highway 43.

Dave Wiley, an area resident for over 50 years, isn't worried about the noise of increased rail traffic and recalls an era when freight trains once used the tracks. "One of them passed through here every morning at 5 am," Wiley says. "We learned to sleep through it." 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally published on WEDNESDAY, 8/3/2005


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## officedweller

The newspapers said that the majority of ridership responsibility remains with Translink (90%) because *Translink refused to give up to InTransitBC (SNC-Lavalin) responsibility for the operational aspects that determine ridership - i.e. fare structure, train frequency and marketing.* Translink wants to retain those operational aspects to properly coordinate with the rest of the transit system. That makes sense.

*InTransitBC refused to accept liability for ridership if it could not also control the factors that determine ridership.*

The 10% liability that InTransitBC assumed is related to maintenance of the trains (i.e. if a train breaks down, there's a resulting loss in ridership. This risk has been allocated at 10%)

*****

One thing that people have failed to highlight - if the line was a fully government funded line - without the PPP - that $180 million increase would have lead to the cancellation of the line if additional government funding wasn't found. With the PPP we don't have to worry about scrambling to find additional government funding.


----------



## eduardo89

mr.x said:


> We don't know yet....but the Oakridge area has the potential of being the next Metrotown. condos! condos! condos!.....and office towes.................


 its obviously gonna be like a metrotown. hopefully they build a few 20+ story buildings.


----------



## bs_lover_boy

Wally said:


> ^ Oh please! It should only be called Skytrain if it truly is Sky-Train! A train high up in the sky!!!! High above the homes of the creme de la creme!


It goes to the AIRPORT. Airport = Sky. Also there are elevated sections on the line, it's not like that there isn't any elevated portions.


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## Nouvellecosse

It's not like the current sections are all elevated either - aren't there underground sections in central Van and NWM?


----------



## crazyjoeda

^ yes there are three underground stations downtown and one in 1 in New Westminister, also part of the both the millenium and expo lines run at grade and underground.


----------



## Gil

samsonyuen said:


> Why not call it the Skytrain? As you said the Underground isn't underground all the way in London. Nor is the "El" in Chicago elevated all the way either.


The New York subway runs underground in Manhattan, is elevated (at one point 88 feet above street level!) in the outer boroughs of Bronx, Brooklyn and Queens (although not exclusively), and runs at grade at the far reaches in Queens into the Rockaways. The entire system is still referred to as a "subway". Even when the majority of the line is above-ground, it's still referred to as a subway and not an el, or simply just the train.


----------



## officedweller

From this week's BIV:

Business in Vancouver August 23-29, 2005; issue 826

*Offshore investment accounts for the lion's share of RAV's private sector funding*

*$600 million to finance the rapid transit line's construction will be coming from three major European financial institutions*

Andrew Petrozzi

European financing will provide most of the private sector funding needed to keep construction of Vancouver's RAV rapid transit line on track.

Roughly $1.25 billion (2003 dollars) for the project has come from the Vancouver International Airport Authority, the Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority (TransLink) and the three levels of government. The remaining $720 million needed for RAV construction was raised by InTransitBC LP in the private sector. The majority of that funding - $600 million through debt financing - has come from three European financial institutions: the Bank of Ireland, Société Générale and Norddeutsche Landesbank Girozentrale.

No details of the European financing agreements or repayment terms have been released, according to InTransitBC spokesman Steve Crombie.

"The money will be paid back over time, keeping in mind that the concession agreement is for 35 years," he said. "We need five years basically to build the project, and then 30 years to operate it. So there is an operating agreement for InTransitBC following the completion of construction, and there is obviously some terms attached to the financing."

The remaining $120 million in equity financing will come through InTransitBC and includes partners SNC-Lavalin, the British Columbia Investment Management Corp. and Quebec's Caisee de dépôt. Each provided $40 million, according to Crombie.

Peter O'Neill, vice-president of global project finance for the Bank of Ireland, said the three European lead arrangers underwrote equal portions of the $600 million.

The Bank of Ireland's experience in light rail transactions has included projects in the U.K., the Netherlands and Spain. All are performing satisfactorily, O'Neill said.

The 2010 winter Olympics were not a significant factor in the bank's evaluations of the RAV financing, said O'Neill.

"We have specifically targeted the Canadian P3 sector following our successful involvement in the European public/private partnership market. The RAV project was attractive because of the strength of the principal sponsors and the commitment shown by government to the project."

O'Neill added that the RAV project is among the Bank of Ireland's first P3 investments in Canada. The bank has no staff in Canada, apart from an asset management office in Montreal, which is separate from the division that is providing the RAV financing.

John Hunter of J. Hunter and Associates, a North Vancouver-based international consultant on P3s, said that European and Asian investors are more familiar with private public partnerships and have more practical experience. They consequently tend to be more willing to enter into P3 projects like the RAV rapid transit line.

"I think it's pretty clear that Canadians are not accustomed to P3s and certain parties have stirred up concerns about P3s which are not valid," Hunter said.

He added that P3s are the best arrangements for building large infrastructure projects like the RAV line because construction and performance risks can be shouldered by the private sector.

"There are some things that the public sector is good at doing, but building things is not one of them," he said. "The carrot and stick system that the public sector has does not work very well to build capital projects."

RAVCO will publish a final project report in early December reviewing the competitive process that led to the selection of the InTransitBC bid. 

[email protected]


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## crazyjoeda

*Detailed Time Line for Vancouver RAV/Canada Line Construction*


















First train November 30th 2009.
*(subject to change)*


----------



## greg_christine

Have they chosen a vendor for the trains yet?

Many factors pointed to the trains being an evolution of the LIM powered vehicles used for Vancouver Skytrain, which would imply Bombardier as the train vendor; however, I don't recall seeing any confirmation that this was a done deal.


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## sfgadv02

The train looks Bombardier to me.


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## mr.x

There's no done deal, all they've said that the line will be "third rail." And that could mean anything from NYC track technology to LIM (SkyTrain).


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## bs_lover_boy

Did anything start yet as of today???


----------



## officedweller

It is operationally, a completely independent line within the Translink network - and will be operated and maintained as such by the private contractor for 30 years.

The decision on whether to exercise the option to add fare gates to the contract will be made by Translink on December 7th (the next board meeting).


----------



## Palal

I'm surprised Bombardier didn't get the contract.


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## spsmiler

officedweller said:


> It is operationally, a completely independent line within the Translink network - and will be operated and maintained as such by the private contractor for 30 years.
> 
> The decision on whether to exercise the option to add fare gates to the contract will be made by Translink on December 7th (the next board meeting).


Berlin, Germany has a completely gate-less system.

They also have roving ticket inspectors who wear "street chic" clothing, so when you see them board the train you dont know that they are ticket inspectors - until the doors close and they call out "ticket inspection" (or something similar) in German. 

They do have photocards with their names, etc, if you want to see it - although its just better to show them your ticket (whilst holding tightly, in case they are fake inspectors)

simon


----------



## ryanr

Hey thats cool...the trains will look almost exactly like Manila MRT 2: (which ROTEM also supplied)


























I'm glad and quite surprised as well that ROTEM got the contract over Bombardier.


----------



## zivan56

I am fairly dissapointed at their choice (I guess price is the main factor in the decision). At least it will be completely driverless. It would have been nice if they chose Bombardier and just made it join up with the Expo line at downtown and not have to build a seperate control centre. This would have allowed for quite some amount of savings.


----------



## officedweller

In order to establish a level playing field for all bidders, the Request for Proposals for the RAV line prohibited bidders from using any costs savings created by combining systems with the existing lines. 

Since the line is being operated and maintained by InTransitBC (Lavalin et al), any cost efficiencies would only have been realized after the 30 year life of InTransitBC's contract. Also, the Edmonds yard probably wouldn't be big enough anyways.


----------



## Frank J. Sprague

zivan56 said:


> I am fairly dissapointed at their choice (I guess price is the main factor in the decision). At least it will be completely driverless. It would have been nice if they chose Bombardier and just made it join up with the Expo line at downtown and not have to build a seperate control centre. This would have allowed for quite some amount of savings.


It seems like a penny wise and pound foolish choice. The US at one time had companies like St Louis Car, Budd, ACF and Pullman Standard with that it lost and now goes overseas to buy. The LIM system used in Vancouver is excellent and would have been superior to the LRT now being built in Seattle.


----------



## greg_christine

*Two New Transit Lines for Vancouver*

Vancouver is breaking ground on two new transit lines, the Canada Line and the Coquitlam Line:










On the above map, the Canada Line is shown by its former name, the Richmond-Airport-Vancouver (RAV) Line.

The Coquitlam Line will be a conventional light rail line, which represents a major break with the high-tech approach taken with the previous fully automated Expo and Millennium Skytrain Lines built in Vancouver. One section of the line will be in a tunnel; however, much of the line will be built along the median of city streets:
































































The Canada Line has been mentioned in several other posts on this forum. It will be fully automated like the previous Expo and Millennium Skytrain Lines in Vancouver; however, there the similarity will end. The Canada Line trains will be powered by conventional rotary electric motors rather than the LIM propulsion of the Expo and Millennium Line trains:














































Much of the Canada Line will be tunneled. The plan is to use shallow cut-and-cover tunnels. The construction approach is described on the following figures:























































For more information, see the following links:

Coquitlam Line
http://www.translink.bc.ca/Plans_Projects/Coquitlam_Line/ 

Canada (RAV) Line
http://www.canadaline.ca/index.asp


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## carpanatomy

why is vancouver getting 3 new transit lines in 10 years, while Toronto, the only city in canada, only gets an incompleted sheppard line?


----------



## Jaye101

^^ Yeah, it sucks.


----------



## C|2azyCanuck

lol..."the only city in Canada" ......**** off!


----------



## Jaye101

^^ What the hell? Who is this C|2azyCanuck imposter?


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## ssiguy2

carpanatomy said:


> why is vancouver getting 3 new transit lines in 10 years, while Toronto, the only city in canada, only gets an incompleted sheppard line?


"only city in Canada"...........???????????????


----------



## zivan56

carpanatomy said:


> why is vancouver getting 3 new transit lines in 10 years, while Toronto, the only city in canada, only gets an incompleted sheppard line?


Probably because your municipal/provincial goverment does not want to invest in transportation infrastructure. You should consider electing somewho who is more pro-transit/densification. As for your flamebait, I wont bite


----------



## crazyjoeda

Greater Vancouver has the largest transportation authority, Translink serves a larger area then the TTC and pulls in more funding. By 2010 Vancouver will have the largest rapid transit system in Canada. I haven't heard of any plans for anouther rapid transit line in Toronto, I bet Vancouver will have extended the M-line down Broadway befor "Canada's only city" gets another one.


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## MelbourneCity

That looks like an awesome project for an awesome city.
I was in Vancouver in 99 and loved it. The Skytrain is worldclass, and I would love to see its technology copied here in Australia.
Hopefully next time I'm in Canada, I will arrive by Qantas, and reach the downtown area by Skytrain. Couldnt get any better


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## Randwicked

Nice, how come they didn't elevate the Canada Line all the way to the city like the original SkyTrain? Was it the dreaded NIMBY?


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## MelbourneCity

From my limited knowledge, the corridor is very dense, and the only way to do it is underground.


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## zivan56

Randwicked said:


> Nice, how come they didn't elevate the Canada Line all the way to the city like the original SkyTrain? Was it the dreaded NIMBY?


There is no way that an elevated platform can be built from King George to downtown, as there is no room unless lanes on cambie are closed (which will never be the case). As for other problems, an elavated Skytrain line would ruin the appeal of areas such as Yaletown and false creek views.


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## DrJoe

crazyjoeda said:


> Greater Vancouver has the largest transportation authority, Translink serves a larger area then the TTC and pulls in more funding. By 2010 Vancouver will have the largest rapid transit system in Canada. I haven't heard of any plans for anouther rapid transit line in Toronto, I bet Vancouver will have extended the M-line down Broadway befor "Canada's only city" gets another one.


It may have the largest system but it will still lag far behind Montreal and Toronto when it comes to actual ridership. Montreal and Toronto have actual heavy rail subway systems, the cream of the crop, Vancouver is still using its light rail.


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## zonie

Thanks. Very industrial-looking, like Production Way.


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## mr.x

awesome!



on a side note, that Global truck looks new.


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## Jayayess1190

*http://www.vcn.bc.ca/t2000bc/learning/background/ten_year_plan/summary.html*


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## rise_against

Nothing like a new transit station


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## dchengg

Our Trolley Buses:








Interior:








Rear door exit:
















And our skytrains:


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## officedweller

Thanks for the pics.

A couple of notes on the discussion above:

The M-Line switches on the Expo Line weren't installed with the Scott Road Skytrain extension - they were installed at the time the M-Line was built. One switch was installed at a time with the trains alternating directions on one guideway. This forced that segment of the Expo line (incl. the Skybridge) to have reduced frequency (limited by the placement of switches where the trains could get back to the proper track). 

I think that the M-Line has to be closer to Broadway than 6th Ave. - there are a lot of office buildings between Cambie, Oak and Granville and just walking the distances from those mains streets to their building cold present a deterrant. Adding a bus transfer or Canada Line transfer to get up the hill would also be a deterrant. 

Conceivably, they could short-turn trains at Broadway on the Expo Line to deal with crowds transferring from the M-Line. This track map shows a switch and siding to the east of the Broadway Station (even if it is fairly far away).

http://world.nycsubway.org/canada/vancouver/skytrmap.html


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## officedweller

Architects announced for the new Canada Line stations. Public open houses to discuss station designs to be held starting at the end of January. 

http://www.canadaline.ca/uploads/NewsReleases/News34.pdf


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## matthewcs

*Vancouver Gateway Project*

A major transportation expansion has been announced for Vancouver BC. It includes 3 large new bridges, a new four lane highway and improved connections for 2 other transport routes.

From the Globe and Mail here 

Essentially what it includes is 

a twinning of one bridge for highway one, complete with bike lanes, room for a future LRT and dedicated transit lanes

An additional river crossing to the east to replace a over used (but very cool) ferry (Golden Ears Bridge)

Replacing two swing bridges (that are clogged to no end at rush hour) with a fixed bridge over a different river (Pitt R)

Construction of a new fourlane highway along the south side of the Fraser River to help move goods into ports

Improving the route along the North side of the river

Expanding the transcanada Hwy within Vancouver itself by one lane ea way


The new bridges will be all toll ones using a creditcard system (or license plate photos) (I'll go around them before I pay those tolls  


All in all, I think most of these are needed, but it's going to end up over budget and behind schedual because Vancouver's economy is overheated right now. I also wish they would have expanded the west coast express (Commuter train) at least into Surrey with this, and I have no doubt that everything will be clogged within a year of completion, but it is still cool to see new infastructure.

note, I also wish they would build a connector btw Gaglardi and the Barnet highway at the bottom of SFU. Anyone who drives through there at Rush hour can see why that is needed


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## crazyjoeda

The bridge will have cycle lanes and a light rail connection









New Pitt River Bridge









South Fraser Highway









The need

Its a good plan but the tolls are a stupid idea. I doubt they will actualy put tolls on the bridge. This is the Trans-Canada highway, people won't stand for it. Also I think it is unfair to put tolls on the Port Mann but not on the new Pitt River Bridge of on the South Fraser road.


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## Haber

The tolls are a good idea. Why should transit riders and people who walk and bike subsidize car drivers


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## Guest

To be built in what year?


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## rt_0891

The province needs some way to pay for all this construction, and if doesn't come from increased taxation, it's got to come from user fees. Tolls is the most fair and reasonable way to offset costs and avoid debt. 

Else, the province could raise gasoline tax to pay for it.


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## crazyjoeda

Tolls are unfair. People who drive pay gas tax, on top of that income tax, PST and GST also in part fund infrastructure. Having a safe and modern main highway shouldn't be a privlage it should be a right. Why should a small group of people pay to commute while most people can make their commute with out paying tolls. No other innercity highway in Canada has a toll, and no other major route in Vancouver has a toll or is going to have a toll. 

Im not bias, I don't use HWY1 because I live in White Rock and use 99 or 91A. The fact is we are a rich province and country and we pay enough tax, the Goverment can fund this project with no problems.


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## matthewcs

I think it should all be finished by 2012. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## sonysnob

Haber said:


> The tolls are a good idea. Why should transit riders and people who walk and bike subsidize car drivers


In Canada, its usually the other way around. Much more fuel tax is collected then is returned to roads. Some of that is returned directly for transit, while some of it just goes into general revenue. Considering how much tax drivers actually pay in this country, it is not unreasonable to have an aversion to toll roads.

Cheers.


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## rt_0891

crazyjoeda said:


> The fact is we are a rich province and country and we pay enough tax, the Goverment can fund this project with no problems.


That's how the spiral of out-of-control spending starts. It almost sounds like NDP rhetoric. The province is squeaking by with a modest surplus, and it still has to contend with a giant Olympic bill that just keeps rising everyday. 

BC Capital debt has actually increased for at least ten straight years, so it's obvious the province has to borrow to suport these new infrastructure projects. 

The province had increased the gas tax in the past to support the sea-to-sky improvements, so if we want to see the Gateway Project go ahead, we better be prepared to shell out via additional taxes (gas taxes), or through user fees (i.e. tolls).


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## TRZ

crazyjoeda said:


> Tolls are unfair. People who drive pay gas tax, on top of that income tax, PST and GST also in part fund infrastructure. Having a safe and modern main highway shouldn't be a privlage it should be a right. Why should a small group of people pay to commute while most people can make their commute with out paying tolls. No other innercity highway in Canada has a toll, and no other major route in Vancouver has a toll or is going to have a toll.
> 
> Im not bias, I don't use HWY1 because I live in White Rock and use 99 or 91A. The fact is we are a rich province and country and we pay enough tax, the Goverment can fund this project with no problems.


I pay income tax, and I don't have a car meaning I don't use roads, I pay PST and GST as well but the roads are useless to me - they are a barrier, since traffic lights are there for the sake of cars, cars that use roads that serve no purpose for me unless I'm on a bus. I use the sidewalk or the (railway) tracks. I pay just as much into the infrastructure as any car driver does AND pay even more to use the train/bus or in very rare cases taxi, which is effectively the same as the cost of gas for a driver if the vehicle is fuel-efficient enough. Tolls are extremely justified and fair since cars cause a lot of problems and damage that costs money to fix and maintain. Pay for your own roads and pay to clean up the damage you cause with your cars (air pollution, noise pollution, traffic accidents causing death, etc.). Railway commuters should be given the free ride since they don't cause anywhere remotely near as much damage. Drivers (busses excepted) should pay at every intercity border.


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## TRZ

Oh yeah, how is Vancouver getting all this cool stuff when Toronto, which is falling apart from over-capacity, stressed to bursting at the seams for over a decade, gets jack?!


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## rt_0891

TRZ said:


> Oh yeah, how is Vancouver getting all this cool stuff when Toronto, which is falling apart from over-capacity, stressed to bursting at the seams for over a decade, gets jack?!


The BC Liberals (which in essence is a Conservative party) have been very proactive in supporting infrastructure development. Unlike Mike Harris, Campbell's party understands that sound infrastructure is key to economic prosperity, and has allocated a lot of money supporting these improvements.


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## j4893k

Oh hahaha... you have no idea. Traffic here is unbearable. We havn't gotten a major infrastructure upgrade for over... I don't even know how long.

But of course... Pffft. Vancouver doesn't need any upgrades... They don't matter.


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## TRZ

rt_0891 said:


> The BC Liberals (which in essence is a Conservative party) have been very proactive in supporting infrastructure development. Unlike Mike Harris, Campbell's party understands that sound infrastructure is key to economic prosperity, and has allocated a lot of money supporting these improvements.


You got lucky  (*I * didn't vote for that Harris bitch)


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## TRZ

j4893k said:


> Oh hahaha... you have no idea. Traffic here is unbearable. We havn't gotten a major infrastructure upgrade for over... I don't even know how long.
> 
> But of course... Pffft. Vancouver doesn't need any upgrades... They don't matter.


Oh yeah, cause I mean, you know, come on, Skytrain afterall is not infrastructure :weird:


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## j4893k

TRZ said:


> Oh yeah, cause I mean, you know, come on, Skytrain afterall is not infrastructure :weird:


Skytrain was first built in '86... (That's 20 years ago). And I'm sorry if skytrain alone can't sustain a city of over 2 million people. Besides, You have enough freeways as it is. Vancouver has 1 full freeway running through the city (that's clogged for most of the day) and roughly 5 that, at some point, end. 

How do you expect Canada to send & receive goods (to Asia & the Pacific) if it wern't for Vancouver's ports? Despite what some Canadians may believe, Toronto is not the centre of the universe and is not the only city that needs infrastructure upgrades. :bash:


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## SQ4R

Is there even a stretch of skytrain that is at capacity? Before any new construction, they should try and at least get current routes to full capacity. New highway construction for the purpose of transporting goods to the rest of Canada is a waste of money. They should really be constructing new rail lines to take all the goods to central Canada. The rest of the country is so far away, using trucks as transport is a waste of money. Vancouver is a city of 500,000 btw.


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## zonie

There are many stations along the Expo line that are at or above capacity on a daily basis. Even the M-Line is getting hectic at a few stations (i.e. Commercial, Lougheed, and Production Way), and moderately busy at others.

Also, even though they're making record profits, I don't think the railways are going to be building any new cross-Canada lines anytime soon.


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## nname

SQ4R said:


> Is there even a stretch of skytrain that is at capacity? Before any new construction, they should try and at least get current routes to full capacity.


There is a stretch on the Expo line that is 13% over capacity during peak hour.


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## j4893k

SQ4R said:


> Is there even a stretch of skytrain that is at capacity? Before any new construction, they should try and at least get current routes to full capacity. New highway construction for the purpose of transporting goods to the rest of Canada is a waste of money. They should really be constructing new rail lines to take all the goods to central Canada. The rest of the country is so far away, using trucks as transport is a waste of money. Vancouver is a city of 500,000 btw.


BTW, most of the project will be in Greater Vancouver, pop 2.3 million. But thanks for the heads up.

Transporting goods on these highways are necessary. They're tavelling all over Greater Van... Getting them to Central Canada is only a small part. We can't just build railroad tracks all over the city. These plugged roads are costing the government billions every year. It would be wrong not to fix them. 

They also are not near skytrain... They serve totally different areas and purposes. Do you think we can put containers on skytrain to shuttle them all over the city or something? Getting more ridership on skytrain wouldn't put a dent in the problem and has nothing to do with it.


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## [email protected]

j4893k said:


> BTW, most of the project will be in Greater Vancouver, pop 2.3 million. But thanks for the heads up.
> 
> Transporting goods on these highways are necessary. They're tavelling all over Greater Van... Getting them to Central Canada is only a small part. We can't just build railroad tracks all over the city. These plugged roads are costing the government billions every year. It would be wrong not to fix them.
> 
> They also are not near skytrain... They serve totally different areas and purposes. Do you think we can put containers on skytrain to shuttle them all over the city or something? Getting more ridership on skytrain wouldn't put a dent in the problem and has nothing to do with it.



^ Of course, if Skytrain was a little bit more extensive that would cover the entire GVRD so anybody from Langley to Maple Ridge to White Rock can take a train instead of their car, then much of the traffic that is clogging up the Port Mann wouldn't be there at the first place. After all, cars occupied by single drivers commuting to and from their jobs are the ones clogging up the bridge, not commercial vehicles that move goods around. Unfortunately, instead of spending money on a region wide elevated Skytrain network, the municipal and provincial governments in Vancouver would rather spend hundreds of millions more *on tunneling* for the single line from the airport to downtown simply because the Westside creme de la creme do not want to see a SKY-TRAIN high above their homes! :nuts:


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## SQ4R

nname said:


> There is a stretch on the Expo line that is 13% over capacity during peak hour.


Isn't that between two stations only?



j4893k said:


> Transporting goods on these highways are necessary. They're tavelling all over Greater Van... Getting them to Central Canada is only a small part. We can't just build railroad tracks all over the city. These plugged roads are costing the government billions every year. It would be wrong not to fix them.


It's not as though goods are being trucked from ships to trains. Containers are loaded right onto trains, are they not? If they aren't, they aren't being efficient.

Why is the province promoting car use?


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## Bertez

Looks nice


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## j4893k

Wally said:


> ^ Of course, if Skytrain was a little bit more extensive that would cover the entire GVRD so anybody from Langley to Maple Ridge to White Rock can take a train instead of their car, then much of the traffic that is clogging up the Port Mann wouldn't be there at the first place. After all, cars occupied by single drivers commuting to and from their jobs are the ones clogging up the bridge, not commercial vehicles that move goods around. Unfortunately, instead of spending money on a region wide elevated Skytrain network, the municipal and provincial governments in Vancouver would rather spend hundreds of millions more *on tunneling* for the single line from the airport to downtown simply because the Westside creme de la creme do not want to see a SKY-TRAIN high above their homes! :nuts:


Well.. Building skytrain all over the GVRD is not at all feesable because it would not require "a little but more". Plus, ridership would be terrible in some areas of Vancouver. Skytrain is not always the answer. 

Do you really think that, for a couple hundred million saved (through an elevated line), the entire GVRD could have skytrain running everywhere? Let me tell ya something, Greater Vancouver is huge. 

RAV is underground for more reasons than you may think... Cambie is a heritage street... Something that Vancouver respects. 

Why would you bring up Canada Line as a negative? Sure, it does cost a lot to cut & cover but this is being done to get people out of their cars, from Richmond, the airport, all along Cambie and downtown. One project at a time please.

Finally, trucks actually are a huge part of the problem in traffic. For example, the reason for the SFPR is because (after Delta Port expansion) roughly 600 trucks will be travelling on Hwy 17 PER HOUR!


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## [email protected]

^ Umm, Cambie only became a Heritage street because the Vancouver creme de la creme made it so when Skytrain was being proposed in the corridor in the early 1990s. I'm curious to see if you can name another "heritage boulevard" in the planet other than Cambie. If it weren't for those creme de la creme NIMBYs, RAV would be elevated like everywhere else in the GVRD and therefore more cost effective. The savings can then be passed to extend the existing Expo Line to, say Guilford, thus enabling people an opportunity to park their cars and take the Skytrain instead of crossing the Port Mann Bridge.

As for trucks, no one is saying the South Perimeter road or Delta Port expansion shouldn't be built. Only the Port Mann twinning remains the contentious issue of the Gateway Program and the main traffic for those is simply not caused by trucks but rather, single occupancy vehicles. Even in the existing side with the carpool lane, the clogged lanes is still done by single occupancy vehicles while the single carpool lane is free.


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## j4893k

Well... Again, skytrain WILL NOT solve this problem! Gah... Get it through your head. The commuters from most Surrey areas take different routes anyway (Puttulo, existing skytrain, Alex Fraser etc). The majority of Port Mann users live outside the actual Surrey district.


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## j4893k

I'm not saying that skytrain should not be extended into these areas but there's more to it. This pittiful 2 lane bridge and freeway desperatly needs to be fixed. If you used it, or actually lived in Vancouver for that matter, you would know.


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## [email protected]

Ah but even if what you say is true, those Langley residents can easily just take the exit and park their cars at the Guilford Skytrain Park and Ride, now would they? It would be better than struggling to go within Surrey and wrestle with King George and Fraser Highway traffic to get to the existing King George and Scott Road park and rides. 

At least with an Expo extension of Skytrain to Guilford, it would give those Port Mann commuters an option to actually park their cars and take transit to work, assuming of course the rapid transit network can be built more extensively to cover the rest of the region (and it doesn't have to be all Skytrain....for example, the Evergreen LRT can easily be extended to cover up to Maple Ridge as well)


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## j4893k

Even if a percentage of Port Mann users did follow your ideal ways of commuting, IT WOULD STILL NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM! This is going to have to be done sooner or later and with construstion costs skyrocketing, trade with the Pacific expanding, population increasing, olympics just around the corner and little ol' Vancouver with one of the worsts road systems I've seen, the sooner the better. 

Twinning the Port Mann will relieve almost the entire GVRD, so we have time to further extend skytrain or LRT w/e. You also have to consider that most people will not give up their cars. The first step is to fix Greater Vancouver's roads, then we can extend transit.


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## mr.x

*All roads lead to more debate*
Gateway program means traffic issues will be ripe for picking again as 2009 provincial election starts

William Boei and Scott Simpson, Vancouver Sun
Published: Saturday, February 04, 2006 
If you've been thinking we can stop worrying about traffic now, that we can just build those highways and twin that bridge and it's clear sailing into a congestion-free future, please sit down. We need to talk.

First, if we go that way, if we build the $3-billion Gateway program, that won't be the end of it. There are wish lists as long as your arm for transit, road, bridge, rail and marine transportation projects that together will cost much more than Gateway.

Second, the debate is just beginning about whether Gateway-style, large-scale road-building is needed. Some transportation experts are shaking their heads and saying it is a return to the freeway-building madness of the 1950s and 1960s.

Others say it's about time somebody did something, and more road space is just what's needed.

With two to three years of consultations and planning ahead and the bulk of construction pencilled in for 2009 through 2013, this issue should be just about ripe for picking when the 2009 provincial election campaign gets going.

- - -

Freeways -- to build them or not -- are the story of modern Vancouver. In the 1950s and 1960s we didn't build them and we escaped the traffic congestion that now chokes many of the cities that did. Some of those cities are tearing down their freeways, trying to become more livable, and using freeway-free Vancouver as their model.

But there's more to Greater Vancouver than the precious beaches and gleaming towers of the famous downtown peninsula.

There's the growing international trade moving through the ports, and the people who run them are clamouring for more roads for the big trucks that carry the containers.

And there are the exasperated residents of the region's eastern suburbs, especially south of the Fraser, where traffic congestion is bad and getting worse, and the lack of freeway space seems like the obvious culprit.

For many of them, the Gateway program -- twinning the Port Mann Bridge, widening the Trans-Canada Highway, building a new truck route along the south shore of the Fraser River and piecing together another truck route on the river's north shore, complete with a new Pitt River Bridge -- is a gift from heaven.

- - -

Bob Wilds, for one, is pretty happy this week.

Wilds is the long-time director of the Greater Vancouver Gateway Council, which represents the ports and other major transportation industries.

For many years, the council has been pestering governments for more infrastructure -- especially road, bridge and rail -- to move the goods that enter our ports to destinations all over North America.

His is no longer a voice in the wilderness. The provincial Liberal government has embraced trade and transportation as the core of its economic vision, the federal government has jumped on board, and Wilds is pleased.

"The Gateway program that was just announced is pretty much in line with the projects that we had identified," he said.

"Our list of projects included the RAV Line, the Trans-Canada Highway, the Port Mann, south and north Fraser perimeter roads, the Pitt River Bridge, the Golden Ears Bridge. Those are all key projects in our priority list that had to be addressed for the goods-movement sector and tourism."

There will be demands for more. The new truck route south of the Fraser will have to connect to Richmond and its fast-growing industrial parks, and to Highway 99.

Once 99 is tied into the new truck route, there will be pressure to expand or replace another bottleneck: the Massey Tunnel. That will encourage more traffic to and from Vancouver and we'll need a bigger bridge at Oak Street or Knight Street or both.

Wilds said we may also want to tie the highway network to "short sea-shipping" terminals, so containers can be moved by barge from deep-sea terminals to points along the Fraser River, where they can be loaded on to trucks.

"We've got to think of this as multi-modal," he said. "It's not all road."

- - -

Things will change in the northwest corner of Greater Vancouver too, where West Vancouver has fought a losing battle against the province's expansion of the northern portion of Highway 99, the Sea to Sky Highway to Whistler.

Former Vancouver councillor Gordon Price, now a lecturer on urban planning, notes the expanded corridor from West Van to Whistler is about to experience a tourism and development boom, generating more traffic -- much more, perhaps -- through West Vancouver.

Much of it will head for the Lions Gate Bridge and downtown Vancouver, which means West Vancouverites will spend even more time fighting for their share of the congested road space on Taylor Way and Marine Drive.

That may have implications for the three-lane Lions Gate, which Vancouver planners have deliberately used as a traffic management tool to limit the number of vehicles entering the downtown.

Look for another third-crossing debate to break out before long.

- - -

Rail infrastructure also will need upgrading.

CN and CP announced a deal just a week ago to handle train movement through the region cooperatively, and that's one of the ways to increase the volume of containers streaming out of the ports.

But some new construction will be needed, to keep the trains rolling and to aid road traffic on either side of the tracks.

"There's additional sidings required if we are to achieve the level of throughput ... to just meet the tremendous growth to and from Asia," Wilds said.

All along the rail line from Deltaport through the Fraser Valley, there is pressure to build overpasses and underpasses. North-south road traffic stops dead when trains pass level crossings, and the trains will be longer and more frequent.

Overpass construction has begun at 204th Street in Langley and there will be others.

"We are going to participate in a comprehensive study of that entire rail line out to Deltaport from Mission," Wilds said, "that's going to look at all of the level-crossing issues."

- - -

The Gateway Council now has much of what it wanted, at least on paper.

"I think there is now general agreement between ourselves, the regional transportation authority, the province and the federal government," Wilds said.

"The real question is funding, and getting the public to understand the need to have these done."

He readily agrees public transit is part of the picture and that highway commuters have to be considered. But that's not the Gateway Council's job.

"Our proposal for this is really addressed around the need for commercial goods and tourism, not for the single-occupant vehicle," Wilds said.

What happens to commuters is the concern of the regional district, which sets planning goals for the region, and of TransLink, which tries to fill road and transit needs within the region's plans.

But the Gateway Program means a huge shove for both bodies in directions they don't necessarily want to go, and it catches them off-balance with new boards of directors that haven't yet plotted a route into the future.

TransLink appears the more likely of the two bodies to be onside with the provincial plan. Its new chairman, Malcolm Brodie, is the mayor of Richmond, which is getting the Canada rapid transit line and has more often than not been allied with Surrey, which badly wants the Gateway project to ease its traffic woes.

New regional district chairwoman Lois Jackson, the mayor of Delta, has a difficult task. The number one priority for her new board this year is to shape the successor to the Livable Region Strategic Plan, some of whose major goals -- compact development concentrated in designated town centres -- have been eroded by actual development patterns and which may take a body blow from the Gateway Program, which is expected to encourage development along the highway corridor and into the valley.

The GVRD's main choices appear to be to hold on to its growth principles, which may mean political fights with the province and with some of its member municipalities; and doing a significant about-face on its regional vision.

- - -

The Fraser River Port Authority is not worried that increasing commuter traffic will develop into a significant obstacle to the flow of goods through the region.

A bigger concern, says port spokesman Mark Erdman, is that municipalities may compromise the intent of Gateway by failing to preserve for industry the land adjacent to the new routes.

The authority has been involved in planning for the south Fraser perimeter road -- in fact, Erdman notes, the government cannot put the road through Delta without passing through the port's property.

"We certainly are in favour of seeing that truck route developed as a limited access thoroughfare so that it does not become just a street with an intersection every two blocks."

However, the port does not advocate truck-only lanes along any of the new routes -- a policy some European nations have already adopted -- because that could lead to "some resentment" among commuters.

"You've got to have community buy-in to these things."

A more pressing concern is a proposal by a developer to turn the former Fraser Mills site along the river in Coquitlam into a 3,700-unit housing subdivision -- right inside the north Fraser perimeter road route.

"A study I saw just a week ago said the region is down to about a 15-year supply of industrial land and the majority of that is in central Surrey -- without any water access," Erdman said. "There is a lot of industrial development that needs access to the river."

- - -

Commuters who expect a return to the open roads of years past will be disappointed, says Victoria transportation engineer Todd Litman.

"We're never going to get that again unless there is a terrible pandemic that kills off 30 per cent of the population, and then we'll have a whole different set of problems," Litman said.

"There are no free roads. There is no free parking. It's a question of whether you pay directly or indirectly."

Litman and others warn that we will get tolls no matter what, and it may not stop with a twinned Port Mann Bridge.

With new road space and no tolls, new traffic will expand to fill up the space available, the experts say. That's how it worked everywhere else. The road will soon be as congested as before, but on a larger scale.

Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon and Premier Gordon Campbell admitted as much this week when they said tolls may be a necessary part of Gateway. Falcon said that without tolls, the Highway 1 corridor will be congested again in five to 10 years.

Price snickers at that. "I give it about five minutes. Okay, five hours."

With tolls, Falcon said the expanded corridor will suffice for 25 years.

Price thinks now that the door is open to tolling, it will soon open wider. The government policy of tolling only when there is a free alternative route is hanging by a thread, he argues, because the free alternative to the Port Mann will be the Pattullo Bridge, which is already way too congested, over-aged, narrow-laned and dangerous.

Price says there are two ways to control congestion, and building more roads isn't one of them. Falcon has acknowledged that you can't build your way out of congestion, but is proposing to build more roads.

"You can't say both things at the same time, but they are," Price said.

"That tells you that they are just about at the end of the dream world we've been living in since the 1950s."

The two ways that work, he said, are system-wide tolls to keep traffic down, and congestion itself, which will dictate upper limits to traffic volumes by the degree of delay and discomfort it inflicts on drivers.

- - -

Most experts say tolls and congestion charges and well-placed transit investments that give commuters choices -- among other measures -- are the best way to keep traffic volumes down and create space for goods movement.

Warren Gill, an urban geographer at Simon Fraser University, says tolls are the only way to prevent Gateway from creating a new flood of commuter traffic, and the province may have to get tougher with municipalities whose land-use decisions encourage more people to drive.

"We've got to get away from thinking that the roads are a free good. They're not," Gill said.

If the new truck routes are clogged by commuters, "then they will fail because we won't gain what we want to do, which is to support the efficient movement of goods into and out of the region."

"We will fail entirely with this if the municipalities to the north and south of the river opt to zone more land for office parks, for single-family cul-de-sac neighbourhoods that are not served by transit. If we do that, then it's a failure."

Peter Boothroyd, a University of B.C. development planner, said the province is touting a "magic bullet" approach to managing congestion that effectively creates more room for traffic to expand into: "the same magic bullet that has been used many times before and hasn't killed the beast."

- - -

Falcon is touting the rapid transit lines his government is helping to finance as complementary projects to the Gateway road and bridge expansion.

But UBC urban transportation professor Lawrence Frank says that's what Atlanta, Ga., tried to do with massive investments in the 1980s and 1990s in both road expansion and rapid transit.

"You kind of end up trying to serve two masters," he said. "It results in conflicting land use policies and responses.

"So in a given corridor if you put down a lot of highway capacity, the land use patterns will be highway-oriented, auto-oriented. Then you try to get people to move on transit in that same developing area -- like the Gateway corridor -- and it's very difficult, because the land use isn't conducive to access to transit, to rail, and transit is ineffective.

"I think you can end up kind of shooting yourself in the foot.

"The signal is on one hand, we want to minimize automobile dependence to achieve all these other aspirations of a sustainable and a healthy, livable region. And then we go and build a tremendous amount of road and highway capacity that results in development decisions -- at least it has everywhere else -- that are oriented towards the highway and are completely auto-dependent."

Frank thinks the combined effect of the Highway 1 and Sea to Sky projects may be irreversible impacts on the nature of the region, "and we will end up much more auto-dependent, a lot more angry commuters in cars who want much more highway expansion."

He suggests we back away from making far-reaching choices until there has been a public planning process that looks at what kind of region we want, and the best ways to achieve it.

"Do we want to be known as a model of a sustainable region that actually demonstrates that economic and environmental interests can be brought into balance?

"Vancouver has the opportunity to demonstrate to the world that it can be done. We're already off to a good start. And what we haven't done is build a lot of roads."

[email protected]

[email protected]

FIVE TO PONDER

Here are five of the major projects sought by agencies around the region including TransLink, Gateway council and municipal governments:

UBC RAPID TRANSIT
A westerly extension of Millennium SkyTrain line now ending at Broadway and Clark Drive. Vancouver council prefers $700-million-plus underground SkyTrain extension to Granville Street, with rapid bus service to UBC.

EVERGREEN LINE EXTENSION
Light rail rapid transit line running at ground level to link Coquitlam Centre to Lougheed Mall Skytrain via Barnet Highway and Port Moody. A Translink project with an estimated cost of $800 million, expected to be in service by December 2009.

GOLDEN EARS BRIDGE
TransLink is building an $800 million, six-lane toll bridge across the Fraser River between Maple Ridge-Pitt Meadows and Langley. The bridge will open in 2009, saving 20 to 30 minutes compared to a trip on Albion ferry -- at a price approaching $3 per crossing.

SECOND NARROWS EXPANSION
District of North Vancouver has sought $400 million in federal infrastructure funding towards upgrades on the jam-packed Ironworkers Memorial Bridge, seeking relief for transit users. Council envisioned a bridge widening project that would facilitate installation of priority lanes for buses.

MASSEY TUNNEL IMPROVEMENTS
Gateway council advocates $700 million for Highway 99 corridor at Massey Tunnel crossing of Fraser River, a major choke point. Two extra lanes under river and extension of HOV lanes from King George Highway to Westminster Highway are sought.

© The Vancouver Sun 2006


----------



## Wonderwall

Wally said:


> ^ Umm, Cambie only became a Heritage street because the Vancouver creme de la creme made it so when Skytrain was being proposed in the corridor in the early 1990s. I'm curious to see if you can name another "heritage boulevard" in the planet other than Cambie. If it weren't for those creme de la creme NIMBYs, RAV would be elevated like everywhere else in the GVRD and therefore more cost effective.


 Cambie isn't so Nimby; that Arbutus out-nimbied them is surely one reason for the location of the line down Cambie street (althought not the most important consideration, certainly). 
And also, you make it sould like "Nimby" is a bad thing. It's anything but! Where else would you find people with so much control over their community? Extending homeowners' rights to their views, their streets—lesser cities should note this culture of involvement that makes Vancouver glitter. (ooh I bet lots of you agree with that don't you…)

The article notes they avoid commercial-only lanes from fear of a commuter backlash:


mr.x said:


> However, the port does not advocate truck-only lanes along any of the new routes -- a policy some European nations have already adopted -- because that could lead to "some resentment" among commuters.


 And that's the problem with letting suburbanites vote, isn't it. Or are aging suburbanites going to start slashing tires?


----------



## arashi_1987

mr.x said:


> *All roads lead to more debate*
> FIVE TO PONDER
> 
> Here are five of the major projects sought by agencies around the region including TransLink, Gateway council and municipal governments:
> 
> *UBC RAPID TRANSIT*
> A westerly extension of Millennium SkyTrain line now ending at Broadway and Clark Drive. Vancouver council prefers $700-million-plus underground SkyTrain extension to Granville Street, with rapid bus service to UBC.
> 
> EVERGREEN LINE EXTENSION
> Light rail rapid transit line running at ground level to link Coquitlam Centre to Lougheed Mall Skytrain via Barnet Highway and Port Moody. A Translink project with an estimated cost of $800 million, expected to be in service by December 2009.
> 
> GOLDEN EARS BRIDGE
> TransLink is building an $800 million, six-lane toll bridge across the Fraser River between Maple Ridge-Pitt Meadows and Langley. The bridge will open in 2009, saving 20 to 30 minutes compared to a trip on Albion ferry -- at a price approaching $3 per crossing.
> 
> SECOND NARROWS EXPANSION
> District of North Vancouver has sought $400 million in federal infrastructure funding towards upgrades on the jam-packed Ironworkers Memorial Bridge, seeking relief for transit users. Council envisioned a bridge widening project that would facilitate installation of priority lanes for buses.
> 
> MASSEY TUNNEL IMPROVEMENTS
> Gateway council advocates $700 million for Highway 99 corridor at Massey Tunnel crossing of Fraser River, a major choke point. Two extra lanes under river and extension of HOV lanes from King George Highway to Westminster Highway are sought.
> 
> © The Vancouver Sun 2006


Was the western extension of the Millennium Line past VCC/Clarke mentioned in the Gateway Plan? Does anyone have any further information on that?

From what I know, this has been proposed but will not be built until at least 2013 (which is ridiculous). If it is part of any major projects (Gateway), I hope construction will, and believe it should, begin ASAP because the 99B line from Commercial to Granville is WAYYYYYY OVER CAPACITY (and trust me, I am not joking, you have to ride it to know).


----------



## zonie

Wonderwall said:


> The article notes they avoid commercial-only lanes from fear of a commuter backlash: And that's the problem with letting suburbanites vote, isn't it. Or are aging suburbanites going to start slashing tires?


The transportation industry could avoid the backlash if it contributed some funding to these lanes.


----------



## Xabi

Very nice pics!


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## samsonyuen

Great pics. I've got to go on it soon.


----------



## ssiguy2

I went to the RAV site and I'm still a little lost. Is this technically SkyTrain or no? 

If not, exactly who is building these new trains?


----------



## rt_0891

ssiguy2 said:


> If not, exactly who is building these new trains?


Rotem (Hyundai)


----------



## mr.x

I still hate the Canada Line logo.


----------



## zivan56

My fav shot  (note the drop at the left)









A good tour of the whole line/stations is available on this site:
http://www.nwvirtualtransit.com/tours/skytrainmap.html


----------



## dchengg

zivan56 said:


> My fav shot  (note the drop at the left)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A good tour of the whole line/stations is available on this site:
> http://www.nwvirtualtransit.com/tours/skytrainmap.html



if im not wrong, that should be Lougheed Town Centre... and i dont kno why they had the other part when theyre not using it >.<

and to post above:
Most of the logos look the same =.=


----------



## dchengg

The part where the RAV line in vancouver, was suppose to be elevated but then neighborhoods around there started complaining about noises =.= so then they put it underground... and for Richmond, its a MUST for elevated because its not actually possible to dig because the island is just a pile of rocks.. so when theres an earthquake... that island will sink..


----------



## davidwei01

love it! love the part when the train crosses the river


----------



## j4893k

dchengg said:


> The part where the RAV line in vancouver, was suppose to be elevated but then neighborhoods around there started complaining about noises =.= so then they put it underground... and for Richmond, its a MUST for elevated because its not actually possible to dig because the island is just a pile of rocks.. so when theres an earthquake... that island will sink..


Oh its worse than that. Richmond is just a pile of silt. It would liquify if an earthquake happened. And I think it is possible but it's just really expensive. I wonder what 3 Road will look like after the line goes down it. Probably a little weird :crazy2:


----------



## MelbourneCity

mr.x said:


> COMMERCIAL STATION


One thing I dont understand... Is why Translink run the older model Skytrains with the door first, rather than the other way round witht the two windows.
It seems rather odd to me, and a little ugly.


----------



## Bertez

Looks great


----------



## dchengg

MelbourneCity said:


> One thing I dont understand... Is why Translink run the older model Skytrains with the door first, rather than the other way round witht the two windows.
> It seems rather odd to me, and a little ugly.



the one youre seeing there right now, is the older model... and thats the expo trains... the two doors there are known for emergency exits.. and i know its a bit ugly.. and it makes more noise than the minellium trains


----------



## bayviews

SkyTrain has really played a major role in the development of Vancouver, a great multi-modal transit metropolis, over the past couple of decades. It's a really wonderful rapid transit system. And it's nice to see the steady expansion in roue coverage. Really look forward to seeing that line to the airport open.


----------



## MelbourneCity

dchengg said:


> the one youre seeing there right now, is the older model... and thats the expo trains... the two doors there are known for emergency exits.. and i know its a bit ugly.. and it makes more noise than the minellium trains


Its wierd because, at the other end of the cars are the two black panels/windows??
Detroit and Toronto have the trains the "right" way around.


----------



## mr.x

^ i don't think there's a back or front to these trains.


----------



## dchengg

Translink's skytrains dont really have a front or back... when they get to the end they just go the other way after switching to another track...


----------



## greg_christine

The windows in the ends of the Toronto trains are for the drivers. The Toronto trains have drivers onboard even though they are automated. The Vancouver and Detroit trains are driverless.


----------



## mr.x

^ what the hell is the point of having drivers when you could save money and use the computers?


----------



## mrtfreak

mr.x said:


> ^ what the hell is the point of having drivers when you could save money and use the computers?


Passenger security?

I like the Vancouver skytrain's system. It seems kind of well planned and thought out.  Its just a pity that the Canada line will not run on the same technology as the rest of the line. As for the Evergreen line, well, they should've made it a skytrain line too.

I noticed that some of the MKI trains run with the emergeny door in front while others at the place where ther cars are "married" or coupled.

One question though, will the MKI cars be phased out? And how long have they been in operation for?


----------



## mr.x

mrtfreak said:


> Passenger security?
> 
> I like the Vancouver skytrain's system. It seems kind of well planned and thought out.  Its just a pity that the Canada line will not run on the same technology as the rest of the line. As for the Evergreen line, well, they should've made it a skytrain line too.
> 
> I noticed that some of the MKI trains run with the emergeny door in front while others at the place where ther cars are "married" or coupled.
> 
> One question though, will the MKI cars be phased out? And how long have they been in operation for?


They were afraid people would hijack the cockpit and take over the train?


The Canada Line isn't the same technology because it would cost a considerable amount and we don't have that extra money to make it the same technology. Bombardier, which makes SkyTrain, did submit a bid but rumours were that it costed $2.4 billion (nearly a billion overbudget) as suppose to SNC Lavalin's $1.7 billion. Not to mention that the Canada Line trains wouldn't be comptatible on SkyTrain, since Canada Line trains will be 3 metres wide and the Mark II trains are 2.2 metres wide.....so there wouldn't be any point to make it SkyTrain, except the fact that it would be five minutes faster (20 minutes suppose to 26 minutes).


The Mark I train has already been phased out. Bombardier isn't making them anymore because it's expensive to make.


----------



## dchengg

as for the canada line..... is most likely the first type of public transportation that tourists from the airport will go on, and it might make them more safe...


----------



## mr.x

dchengg said:


> as for the canada line..... is most likely the first type of public transportation that tourists from the airport will go on, and it might make them more safe...


Well I'm sure it'll make residents and tourists lifes easier. When i take the 98 B-Line (a rapid bus line to the airport that would be replaced with the Canada Line), it's a long wait at the airport for the bus at the crowded airport station and often the buses are jammed pack.


----------



## mr.x

*SkyTrain stations to get televisions*
By Jeff Nagel


Black Press
Oct 21 2005

TV screens carrying information and advertising will be *coming to select SkyTrain stations by spring.*

Lamar Transit Advertising will install 40-inch LCD video monitors at downtown stations by March 2006, said general manager Byron Montgomery.

They'll initially go in at the SkyTrain platforms at Granville and Waterfront and the downtown SeaBus station.

"Our goal is to one day have this in every SkyTrain station in the line," Montgomery said. "This is the first baby step."

The TVs will carry news, weather, sports, and financial information, along with messages and programming from TransLink - and advertising from Lamar's clients.

A deluxe version will be installed at Burrard station, where waiting commuters will watch a giant video wall comprised of a 12-foot-square matrix of 50-inch screens.

"It's going to be absolutely phenomenal," Montgomery said. "We're going to tile them - they're going to be big, beautiful, bright and state-of-the-art."

The new era of video transit advertising is just one component of an investment of at least $1.5 million over the next three years in new technology by Lamar, he said.

A series of new tactics are expected to shower commuters with advertising and put more money in TransLink's coffers.

Lamar was chosen last spring to continue as TransLink's exclusive advertising agent for up to 15 years in a deal estimated to be worth at least $135 million to the region's transportation authority.

Other changes coming include:

SkyTrain car floor graphics - one of the first examples installed on Millennium line cars is a Monopoly-themed floor ad for McDonalds.

Backlit scrolling posters will be added at 16 SkyTrain stations including Surrey Central, Metrotown, New Westminster and Lougheed.

Backlit signs near the entrances and exits to SkyTrain stations.

More wall and floor advertising in corridors at stations.

TV screens on SkyTrain cars are still under consideration, but Montgomery said the technology is more complex and costly. Firms elsewhere have lost money on subway televisions, he said, so Lamar will proceed with caution.

"Advertisers want to get people while they wait in the station," he said.

Another option being studied is tunnel advertising - advertisements in the walls viewed from a moving SkyTrain would appear to move like a giant flip-book.


----------



## dchengg

mr.x said:


> *SkyTrain stations to get televisions*
> By Jeff Nagel
> 
> 
> Black Press
> Oct 21 2005
> 
> TV screens carrying information and advertising will be *coming to select SkyTrain stations by spring.*
> 
> Lamar Transit Advertising will install 40-inch LCD video monitors at downtown stations by March 2006, said general manager Byron Montgomery.
> 
> They'll initially go in at the SkyTrain platforms at Granville and Waterfront and the downtown SeaBus station.
> 
> "Our goal is to one day have this in every SkyTrain station in the line," Montgomery said. "This is the first baby step."
> 
> The TVs will carry news, weather, sports, and financial information, along with messages and programming from TransLink - and advertising from Lamar's clients.
> 
> A deluxe version will be installed at Burrard station, where waiting commuters will watch a giant video wall comprised of a 12-foot-square matrix of 50-inch screens.
> 
> "It's going to be absolutely phenomenal," Montgomery said. "We're going to tile them - they're going to be big, beautiful, bright and state-of-the-art."
> 
> The new era of video transit advertising is just one component of an investment of at least $1.5 million over the next three years in new technology by Lamar, he said.
> 
> A series of new tactics are expected to shower commuters with advertising and put more money in TransLink's coffers.
> 
> Lamar was chosen last spring to continue as TransLink's exclusive advertising agent for up to 15 years in a deal estimated to be worth at least $135 million to the region's transportation authority.
> 
> Other changes coming include:
> 
> SkyTrain car floor graphics - one of the first examples installed on Millennium line cars is a Monopoly-themed floor ad for McDonalds.
> 
> Backlit scrolling posters will be added at 16 SkyTrain stations including Surrey Central, Metrotown, New Westminster and Lougheed.
> 
> Backlit signs near the entrances and exits to SkyTrain stations.
> 
> More wall and floor advertising in corridors at stations.
> 
> TV screens on SkyTrain cars are still under consideration, but Montgomery said the technology is more complex and costly. Firms elsewhere have lost money on subway televisions, he said, so Lamar will proceed with caution.
> 
> "Advertisers want to get people while they wait in the station," he said.
> 
> Another option being studied is tunnel advertising - advertisements in the walls viewed from a moving SkyTrain would appear to move like a giant flip-book.


arent they afraid of those television screen being stolen??


----------



## mr.x

^ lol, i doubt it. but vandalised? yes.


----------



## mrtfreak

mr.x said:


> They were afraid people would hijack the cockpit and take over the train?
> 
> Not to mention that the Canada Line trains wouldn't be comptatible on SkyTrain, since Canada Line trains will be 3 metres wide and the Mark II trains are 2.2 metres wide.....so there wouldn't be any point to make it SkyTrain, except the fact that it would be five minutes faster (20 minutes suppose to 26 minutes).
> 
> The Mark I train has already been phased out. Bombardier isn't making them anymore because it's expensive to make.


I was thinking more along the lines that people were insecure without drivers to monitor the trains.

Are the Canada Line trains larger than the current MKII to deal with the airport passengers? I suppose they'll be of the same 2-car formation then?

I see. So then the MKIs will slowly be replaced by the newer MKII models? I guess there aren't any plans for MKIII models then eh?

Hopefully, within a year or 2 I can see this system for myself.


----------



## mr.x

The Canada Line trains will be in the same 2-car formation, with a connection between cars. They are significantly larger than the Mark II. Canada Line 2-car (42 metres in length and 3 metres wide, capacity of 334 persons). Mark II 2-car (36 metres in length and 2.2 metres wide, capacity of 230 persons).

Some Mark II's actually go on a 4-car formation; they join two pair of cars together. Translink still has yet to order the C-car (the car that goes in between the head and front of the Mark II trains), I'm not sure if they're going to order this.....probably unlikely. 

Note that on the Expo Line, the platform capacity is six Mark I cars or five Mark II cars, but since it's currently impossible to have a five Mark II car formation.....we're done to four. The Expo platforms can be expanded to handle eight Mark I cars, which should be equivalent to six or seven Mark II cars.

You could have pretty long Mark II trains that are connected to each other if you have the C-car: A-C-C-C-C-B

Depending if Bombardier wants to continue developing the Mark series, maybe in 10-20 years we'll have a Mark III.

Right now, Translink has a order for 42 Mark II trains at a cost of $153 million....to be delivered by 2008 I believe.


Mark II at Expo Line's Waterfront Station










Mark II at the SkyTrain factory in Burnaby










Mark II leaving Expo Line's Main Street/Science World Station










Mark II at M-Line's Commercial Station










Mark II at Expo Line's Stadium/Chinatown Station










Mark II interior. I still think this was the wrong seating arrangement....a side-by-side tranverse configuration would have meant less seats but it would also mean much more standing capacity and therefore significantly more overall car capacity. These trains are really really packed during rush hour.










Mark II at M-Line's Rupert Station


----------



## mrtfreak

Right. I was wondering if it were possible to have a system longer than 2 MKII cars with inter-car connections. KL has a similar system going.

So the MKIIs are capable of 4 car formations then. There were some rumours that the system di not handle well. Thanks for the information!


----------



## mr.x

^ last post has been updated.

What do you mean rumours "on the system did not handle well"?


----------



## mr.x

LCD tv on a train in Berlin:










LCD tv at a Korean subway station:


----------



## mrtfreak

I heard there being mention that MKIIs didn't operate well in a A-C-C-B mode. But I doubt that's true. It is true that the longitudinal seating allows for more standing space.


----------



## BKKinTO

Does anyone has a route map which tells us the attractions of the city so that i can use skytrain from the airport to the city and explore the city by skytrain when i visit there? Thank you.


----------



## mrtfreak

The Canada line which goes to the airport is still under construction. You wouldn't be able to take it from the airport...

Try Stanely Park (I only know that place since my cousin lives next to it). Not too sure what station is best, but I think you need to take a bus from one of the stations.


----------



## zivan56

MelbourneCity said:


> Its wierd because, at the other end of the cars are the two black panels/windows??
> Detroit and Toronto have the trains the "right" way around.


It depends when they bought the 2-car units. Some don't have door, and others do. Since they just back up when they reach the end of the line (Waterfront/VCC/King George), they just reverse and go "backwards." None have the Windows though.


----------



## greg_christine

In the following picture, the driver can clearly been seen through the window of the Toronto train:










The "window" of the other side of the front of the train appears to be just black paint. The trains are automated. Similar trains in Vancouver and Detroit are driverless, so they don't need windows in the ends. I am not sure of the reasons that drivers are provided onboard the Toronto trains.

For more information, see the following websites:

http://world.nycsubway.org/canada/toronto/scarborough.html

http://www.urbanrail.net/am/toro/toronto.htm

http://transit.toronto.on.ca/subway/5107.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarborough_RT_(TTC)


----------



## dchengg

mr.x said:


> The Canada Line trains will be in the same 2-car formation, with a connection between cars. They are significantly larger than the Mark II. Canada Line 2-car (42 metres in length and 3 metres wide, capacity of 334 persons). Mark II 2-car (36 metres in length and 2.2 metres wide, capacity of 230 persons).
> 
> Some Mark II's actually go on a 4-car formation; they join two pair of cars together. Translink still has yet to order the C-car (the car that goes in between the head and front of the Mark II trains), I'm not sure if they're going to order this.....probably unlikely.
> 
> Note that on the Expo Line, the platform capacity is six Mark I cars or five Mark II cars, but since it's currently impossible to have a five Mark II car formation.....we're done to four. The Expo platforms can be expanded to handle eight Mark I cars, which should be equivalent to six or seven Mark II cars.
> 
> You could have pretty long Mark II trains that are connected to each other if you have the C-car: A-C-C-C-C-B
> 
> Depending if Bombardier wants to continue developing the Mark series, maybe in 10-20 years we'll have a Mark III.
> 
> Right now, Translink has a order for 42 Mark II trains at a cost of $153 million....to be delivered by 2008 I believe.
> 
> 
> Mark II at Expo Line's Waterfront Station
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark II at the SkyTrain factory in Burnaby
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark II leaving Expo Line's Main Street/Science World Station
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark II at M-Line's Commercial Station
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark II at Expo Line's Stadium/Chinatown Station
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark II interior. I still think this was the wrong seating arrangement....a side-by-side tranverse configuration would have meant less seats but it would also mean much more standing capacity and therefore significantly more overall car capacity. These trains are really really packed during rush hour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark II at M-Line's Rupert Station


well i wished they could have more standing space than sitting space, these trains are fast and many people can stand, they should be like hk's MTR sys where there are only seats along time sides


----------



## Overground

dchengg said:


> well i wished they could have more standing space than sitting space, these trains are fast and many people can stand, they should be like hk's MTR sys where there are only seats along time sides


I agree. It's the one thing that pisses me off about Translink. It's like they built the trains for tourists and not commuters. Mickey Mouse and not too forward looking on their part which is not surprising.

Here is a proper use of seating. Piccadilly Line.


----------



## mrtfreak

I'm not too sure about the SkyTrain's usage, but I know that the Kelana Jaya line in KL which also uses Bombardier MKII cars is currently 40% over capacity with side seating.

The Piccadilly standing space looks a bit narrow too. So, maybe a better comparisson would be KL's MKII to Vancouver's MKII?

Kuala Lumpur's Kelana Jaya line:









Vancouver's SkyTrain:


----------



## mr.x

^ is it possible to take the seats out and re-do the seating configuration? it would be a small cost to increase train passenger capacity significantly.


----------



## Overground

^That's what I was thinking to. But has Translink even thought of this yet is the question, or do they even care? When they came out with the Millenium Line my brother and I were convinced it would be side-by-side tranverse seating, yet we are still baffled as to why that wasn't the case.

mrtfreak- "So, maybe a better comparisson would be KL's MKII to Vancouver's MKII?"

That is a much better comparison. KL has the right idea.


----------



## dchengg

im also concerned of security because as what hk has in each station is a information centre with someone that could help you can sell you faresaver tickets and stuff. but in vancouver, its only druggies and all those people that are not appropiate to be there are there. and also they should have the a ticket box to check fares before entering the stations as if like "paid areas" and "unpaid" areas". I want it because it makes me feel unfair when people that dont pay can get on the trains


----------



## mrtfreak

mr.x said:


> ^ is it possible to take the seats out and re-do the seating configuration? it would be a small cost to increase train passenger capacity significantly.


Depends if the trains were built modullarly. I would think it is possible. The metro where I stay configures seating from time to time, removing seating and adding it back. I would think there need to be a brace to hold the seats up though, along the wall of the car.

The side by side seating you refer to would be more efficient for passenger loads wouldn't it? Why not suggest it to TransLink as I'm sure a lot of companies involved in public transportation are out to look at efficiency which would translate to profits... If not, a petition?

Overground, I think if it were a dense area, the KL seating arrangement should be incorporated. But if it were less dense, probably the Vancouver one would be better. How bad is the congestion on the trains?


----------



## dchengg

mrtfreak said:


> Depends if the trains were built modullarly. I would think it is possible. The metro where I stay configures seating from time to time, removing seating and adding it back. I would think there need to be a brace to hold the seats up though, along the wall of the car.
> 
> The side by side seating you refer to would be more efficient for passenger loads wouldn't it? Why not suggest it to TransLink as I'm sure a lot of companies involved in public transportation are out to look at efficiency which would translate to profits... If not, a petition?
> 
> Overground, I think if it were a dense area, the KL seating arrangement should be incorporated. But if it were less dense, probably the Vancouver one would be better. How bad is the congestion on the trains?



Well im a student so i dont go to work, but when i go to the mall, i try my best to skip the rush hour... cuz... the skytrains are like trying to shove everythin into your luggage... when the doors open, you squish as many you you guys in as possible..


----------



## dchengg

*Police seek SkyTrain knifing suspect*
Young victim 'lucky' to be alive after he was stabbed six times 









_ The RCMP are seeking the public’s help in identifying the suspect (pictured in video above) in a stabbing and attempted robbery at the Lougheed SkyTrain station. _ 


A Burnaby teen stabbed six times during a bloody robbery attempt outside the Lougheed SkyTrain station early yesterday "miraculously" survived -- and police are on the trail of a suspect.

In a bid to generate investigative leads, Burnaby Mounties have released surveillance-video footage of the suspect with a bleeding left hand fleeing the scene of the crime.

RCMP Cpl. Pierre Lemaitre said the incident began when a 15-year-old was approached by an 18-year-old who demanded cash at about 12:10 a.m.

The youngster was "non-compliant," Lemaitre said.

"He was confronted by this 18-year-old who wanted to rob him of his money," the officer said.

"Apparently, there wasn't too much of a time delay between the request for money and the time he was stabbed."

The victim was knifed six times -- three punctures to the right arm and slashes to his neck, clavicle and rib-cage areas.

"He was stabbed six times in the right side of his body," said Lemaitre. "Miraculously, apart from the arm, the other three injuries were just lacerations, they weren't punctures.

"It could have been a lot worse. He's very lucky -- with the ribs you could get into the lungs, and with the neck you have the jugular [vein]."

The victim was released from hospital after several hours.

The suspect, who police believe was left-handed, was captured on video fleeing the scene on foot. Police believe the suspect was cut on the left hand during the attack.

"The other clue for the amateur sleuth is [that] we are fairly certain the fellow has some type of cut to the left hand that is dominant. We were able to see a blood trail or blood going away from the scene."

A police dog was brought in to do a search but because the scene of the crime is a busy, urban setting it was unable to conduct a track.

Outside the Lougheed Town Centre SkyTrain station yesterday, passengers were stunned at news of the vicious stabbing.

"I take [the SkyTrain] every day to school," said Danielle Kugi. "I've never heard of anything like that in this area.

"There are always SkyTrain officers above and below," the 17-year-old said, explaining she had always felt safe at the station.

But other passengers had a different take on security near the station.

"I see teenagers dealing drugs and people drinking here all the time," said Dennis Leonovich.

"I feel unsafe because the teenagers, they have weapons and stuff."

Leonovich has reason to be concerned about SkyTrain crime. Just a few months ago, he said, he was robbed of his wallet and jacket at a station in New Westminster.

Community crime-watch group members said SkyTrain stations -- especially those at the "end of the line" of each region -- are magnets for crime, but suggested that additional volunteer patrols could help.

"We like to keep the eyes and ears on the street. In the past it has worked," said Don Violette, past-president of the Burquitlam Community Association.

The association helps staff the Burquitlam Plaza Community Policing Station, up the road from Lougheed Mall and SkyTrain.

Violette said the area has seen a marked decrease in crime, loitering and auto theft as citizen volunteers have helped keep the community station open longer hours and bike patrols going later on Friday and Saturday nights, often up to 9 p.m.

The suspect is described as Caucasian, 18, with a medium build and shaved head and wearing a dark, two-tone puffy jacket and blue jogging pants with white stripes.

Police are also trying to contact a woman who may have been in the area at the time of the attack but is not believed associated with the suspect.

She is described as having long, dark hair and was wearing a three-quarter-length coat.

If you can help, call Burnaby RCMP at 604-294-7922 or CrimeStoppers at 1-800-222-8477.

CREDITS TO WWW.CANADA.COM


----------



## dchengg

*Vancouver Bus Drivers, >=(*

What are the things you hate about vancouver bus drivers??

well i can tell you some..

1) When youre chasing the bus, and the bus is sitting there, dont think it will wait for you >=) when you get near the door, SLAM goes the door and the bus runs off.

2) Skipping stops

3) Ignoring Passengers

4) Not opening back doors

5) Late

6) acting sooo B*tchyy asks you to buy a new ticket when it only has expired by a few minutes

7) Rude

8) Not wearing seatbelts

9) Switching lanes quickly, make me feel unsafe

10) fast stops, always dumps people forward


----------



## Overground

mrtfreak said:


> Overground, I think if it were a dense area, the KL seating arrangement should be incorporated. But if it were less dense, probably the Vancouver one would be better. How bad is the congestion on the trains?


Well over the years it has got extremely packed on the Expo Line. I don't use it to go to work anymore but I have been on it in rush hour and it can be similar to a packed train in Tokyo or when heaps of people board the Tube at a busy station like Victoria in London. Removing the current seating arrangement to make more standing room would be a huge improvement.


----------



## mr.x

^ really? i'm taking the bus a few times weekly and i think they're actually nice, polite, and informative. even the drivers on the small routes announce major intersection stops. my tickets always expire by a few minutes and they ALWAYS let me on the bus.

the only thing that boggles me is how late they can be sometimes.


----------



## zonie

Never had a major problem with a bus driver, only once with a Skytrain officer.

I find drivers of the Vancouver city routes, especially downtown, to be friendly and interesting in general. Suburban routes seem so different though. Very few of those drivers announce stops, and they generally don't seem as warm to customers.


----------



## zonie

I think you'd get some fierce opposition from seniors if Translink started taking out seats. There's still room for many more cars on the line, so that might be the easiest thing to do for now. Translink could also buy some C-cars with transverse seating or no seats at all, since it might be better to have more people in the middle of the train, anyway.


----------



## dchengg

well im not saying ALL bus drivers are like that but then SOME and theyre mostly the FIRST point


----------



## mr.x

^ what about senior designated seating like on the buses?


----------



## dchengg

^ even if there were designated seats for seniors, theyre not usually enough avaliable OR is not even avaliable for them because of younger people hogging the space


----------



## mrtfreak

zonie said:


> I think you'd get some fierce opposition from seniors if Translink started taking out seats. There's still room for many more cars on the line, so that might be the easiest thing to do for now. Translink could also buy some C-cars with transverse seating or no seats at all, since it might be better to have more people in the middle of the train, anyway.


Would this not be a more expensive option? I'm sure the cost of producing a car and its associated components by far exceeds the cost of replacing a few seats. With the car, you need wiring and sensors, climate control and all the subsystems for powering. But if the system is in need of a rolling stock upgrade, this may be feasible.

I'm imagining the Sky Train to be a popular mode of transportation in Vancouver. The situation with KL's MKIIs is that although they have transverse seating, with 35 trains of 2 cars on a 29km line, its pretty congested. The KL system would have more standing space for sure, but even so, they're going over capacity.

For Vancouver, transverse seating might be a temporary solution. What about the Canada line? What type of seating would that be? Since the trains are wider, there would be more space for standing. Would they make it easy for passengers with luggage to come on board and keep their luggage is specified areas?


----------



## mr.x

^ Its certainly a temporary solution, and its worth it if it'll only cost a small fraction of what it would cost to order more trains. 

I'd be shocked if they didn't make the Canada Line seats tranverse.


----------



## crazyjoeda

They should increase frequency.


----------



## mr.x

^ The thing is most of the rolling stock is already in service.....what's left in the maintenance yard is for back ups in case trains break. There are 210 SkyTrain cars today, and Translink will order an additional 47 Mark II's by 2010. 


Interesting. The Mark I cars can be coupled together with the Mark II cars.


----------



## zonie

mrtfreak said:


> Would this not be a more expensive option?


Definitely... I think it's about $3 million each. But the seniors are tough customers!


----------



## zonie

mr.x said:


> Interesting. The Mark I cars can be coupled together with the Mark II cars.


It already looks bad when they couple Mark I cars with different liveries. Coupling Mark I and Mark II cars together would be quite the sight!


----------



## mr.x

zonie said:


> It already looks bad when they couple Mark I cars with different liveries. Coupling Mark I and Mark II cars together would be quite the sight!


----------



## weill

I guess this happens in every city...


----------



## mrtfreak

mr.x said:


> ^ The thing is most of the rolling stock is already in service.....what's left in the maintenance yard is for back ups in case trains break. There are 210 SkyTrain cars today, and Translink will order an additional 47 Mark II's by 2010.


Is this to replace the MKIs or to increase frequency? Either way, tell them they should order trains with transverse seating.



Zonie said:


> Definitely... I think it's about $3 million each. But the seniors are tough customers!


true, I'll try see how many seats KL's MKIIs have and maybe it is a comparable amount to the Sky Train's? KL's system has designated seats for the seniors and those with wheelchairs (the seat folds up). Is that the case in Vancouver? Pleased to say, Malaysians in KL do give up their seats to those in need. Nice to see them do that. And not just one person, 4 or 5.


----------



## zivan56

If they installed those types of seats, I would not take the Skytrain anymore. Nothing is worse than taking a B-Line bus and having to sit in one of those seats facing the person right in front of you (and having a staring contest with them). Not to mention someones ass when the bus is full. Thankfully Translink considers the human element, rather than how much "livestock" can fit in a "cattle car."


----------



## dchengg

^ well the point of doing that to the seats are to make more space so then more people can fit inside of the trains. when its full i dont think you'll be having a staring contest. and when its not rush hour, you can sit anywhere in the train or you can jus stand


----------



## Overground

Millions of commuters for decades in Tokyo and London don't seem to have a problem with transverse seating. This is where reading or closing your eyes to catch up on some kip comes in handy. A commuter learning process I'm sure Vancouverites can adapt to. Living in both cities I got used to it quite quickly and after time you take no notice of it. Look at the floor.


----------



## Bertez

Wow....


----------



## splashflash

Some Kingway #19 drivers had a habit of incessant talking on cell phones.


----------



## Ed007Toronto

> I am not sure of the reasons that drivers are provided onboard the Toronto trains.


Think unions.


----------



## Zaki

you guys have the time on your tickets?? like how does it expire and like what's the system?


----------



## zivan56

Zaki said:


> you guys have the time on your tickets?? like how does it expire and like what's the system?


Yes, it lasts 90 minutes and you can take any transit services (except the Westcoast Express) in that zone. The fare system used is just a disposable paper card with a magnetic strip.


----------



## Plumber73

I don't take the bus much, but I think you get unlimited zones on weekends. The bus drivers I've experienced have been fine. You'll get the odd one in a bad mood, but that's life.


----------



## mrtfreak

Allow me to counter...


zivan56 said:


> If they installed those types of seats, I would not take the Skytrain anymore. Nothing is worse than taking a B-Line bus and having to sit in one of those seats facing the person right in front of you (and having a staring contest with them). Not to mention someones ass when the bus is full. Thankfully Translink considers the human element, rather than how much "livestock" can fit in a "cattle car."


The Sky Train is a quick means to get around Vancouver. Like it or not, transverse or longitudinal seating, you would take it. It doesn't make sense both from the viewpoint of time and economically to take several buses to get from point A to point B when the reason for doing so, is to avoid a "staring contest".

You seem to have a preconcieved notion of staring at someone's ass when the train/bus is full. Maybe its due to your own experience, but so far, in the metro systems I have used, I have never had that happen. People usually face you or stan sideways.

The metro trains here all have transverse seating ever since they started operation. People do not have a problem with it either. Most usually sleep, or look at other things. Choosing where to look is a decision made by you. Its not as though other commuters would stare back at you either. The mind is the limitation.

It also makes economic sense for the operator. More people in a car, would mean more revenue and when revenue is able to fully cover all costs, profit. In KL, the rail operator of the MKIIs is now extending their line, which will be paid for partly by the profits earned.


----------



## Overground

Here is the ticket. On the reverse is the date, expiry time, zone issued, no. of zones to travel in and value. There is also a heap of printed material which is the conditions of use, phone numbers, etc. It's given to you from an electronic farebox when you get on the bus or if you already have one then you insert it into a slot.


----------



## Plumber73

zivan56 said:


> If they installed those types of seats, I would not take the Skytrain anymore. Nothing is worse than taking a B-Line bus and having to sit in one of those seats facing the person right in front of you (and having a staring contest with them). Not to mention someones ass when the bus is full. Thankfully Translink considers the human element, rather than how much "livestock" can fit in a "cattle car."


 :lol: Yup, I know what that's like. That's when you need to catch up on some reading, or stare at your crotch. Whatever fits your fancy.


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## dchengg

those ticket machines are SLOW... it goes like chaaa see cha see... chaa seee BEEP and about the weekends... you may be happy about unlimited areas but you might not be happy with the frequency  and as for phones, seatbelts is sometimes the problem


----------



## dchengg

*Skytrain: From Main Street Stn. to Stadium*

Have you been on the skytrain from station Main Street station and to stadium, about it dives and turns, have you noticed it seems to "swing" the train a bit before it announces the station?

sometimes when i forget about the "swing" and know that were approaching the station, i let go and sometimes lose my balance >.<


----------



## dchengg

zivan56 said:


> If they installed those types of seats, I would not take the Skytrain anymore. Nothing is worse than taking a B-Line bus and having to sit in one of those seats facing the person right in front of you (and having a staring contest with them). Not to mention someones ass when the bus is full. Thankfully Translink considers the human element, rather than how much "livestock" can fit in a "cattle car."



well then i beleive you didnt take the skytrain before the year 2001 before the minellium trains were in service because most part of the train was along the wall


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## zivan56

dchengg said:


> well then i beleive you didnt take the skytrain before the year 2001 before the minellium trains were in service because most part of the train was along the wall


No, MKI cars have 1/2 normal seats and 1/2 of those. I wait for a MKI trains in the mornings due to the fact that I am usually the only person that gets in the very last car. Its also nicer since it has better seats and and more leg room in some cases.
For anybody calling trips "quick" enough to stand for, you have never gone from downtown Vancouver to Surrey every day. Even the sitting is not comfortable due to terrible seats in the MKII's.


----------



## zivan56

dchengg said:


> Have you been on the skytrain from station Main Street station and to stadium, about it dives and turns, have you noticed it seems to "swing" the train a bit before it announces the station?
> 
> sometimes when i forget about the "swing" and know that were approaching the station, i let go and sometimes lose my balance >.<



:sly: 

Why is this a new topic? You might want to post little details in a broader thread instead of creating a new one.

It "swings" the train because the LIM motor reverses direction and starts to slow the train down; combined with the turn, physics explains the rest...


----------



## zivan56

I only take the B-Line, so I usually just hop in the back (so I don't even see the driver, as I have a monthly pass). Sometimes they won't open the back doors at Commercial if they don't feel like it, but thats extremely rare.


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## zivan56

When I take it during the morning eastbound it is not near capacity at all. In fact, most people get seats easily. Same goes for coming back around 4pm westbound. However, when I look at buses in the other direction, they are jam packed.
I wouldn't say its unsafe, as I have never seen a B-Line block an intersection. They just need to figure out how to handle peak hours...


----------



## zivan56

arashi_1987 said:


> oh by the way, one more BUS DRIVER NUISANCE: I've had instances where I paid for a 3 zone ticket and not realising the driver only printed me a 1 zone ticket when I had to transfer...unbelievable


Heh, tell me about it. When I have to go to Surrey, I come in and say "3 zone ticket" and put the money in. After glancing at the ticket, I see it says 1 (not zone 1) and complain only to get a "why didn't you say you wanted a 3 zone ticket?"


----------



## dchengg

zivan56 said:


> Heh, tell me about it. When I have to go to Surrey, I come in and say "3 zone ticket" and put the money in. After glancing at the ticket, I see it says 1 (not zone 1) and complain only to get a "why didn't you say you wanted a 3 zone ticket?"



ohh those tickets dont print on exact spots.. so i once looked carefull and it said Zone Issued, and next to it is # of zones so look carefully~


----------



## dchengg

well talking about it is easy but when it really comes, dont think we have the money to afford it, look here:

- Drivers want raise when contract ends (happens all the time)
- Current canada Line
- Coquitlam line
- New skytrain police
- complaints from residents who disagree


----------



## zivan56

dchengg said:


> ohh those tickets dont print on exact spots.. so i once looked carefull and it said Zone Issued, and next to it is # of zones so look carefully~


Yes, as I said, it said it had a value of one for whatever they call that field (value I guess). The point is some of them just don't care and press the same button for each person who puts anything in the box.


----------



## mr.x

arashi_1987 said:


> Could I ask where do you get all these statistics? I am interested. (By the way, from personal experiences...its probably more like 200 people waiting in the 3 line ups for the 99B)


It's in the report on Translink's plans to improve the Broadway/Commercial Station area.

80 persons was from my personal experience. 200 people???? wow.


----------



## dchengg

zivan56 said:


> Yes, as I said, it said it had a value of one for whatever they call that field (value I guess). The point is some of them just don't care and press the same button for each person who puts anything in the box.


some bus drivers dont even know how to use that machine, they have to like figure it out themselve... i once asked them for a 2 zone and that took me a few mins


----------



## [email protected]

^ You forgot the ridiculously expensive cost of the Canada Line due to the Westside creme de la creme who simply insisted that any rapid transit built in their turf had to be tunneled even though for the rest of the Lower Mainland, elevated and at grade is an acceptable option. For the amount of extra costs incurred by the Canada Line, that could EASILY pay for an elevated Skytrain extension for UBC. And they could also have an actual physical link between the existing Skytrain system and the Canada Line system instead. So the Westside creme de la creme are solely to blame for all of the region's transportation problems... :no:


----------



## Haber

They could come up with creative ways to fund for the Millenium Line extension. Get a private company to pay for some of the cost and they get the building rights for properties surrounding the station. They do something like this in Hong Kong I think.


----------



## dchengg

i hate those people who starts making rallys and stuff complaining about that cambie thing, translink is giving them some advantages and they start complaining and forcing translink to use another chunk of those money, as a result, the fare prices might raise again


----------



## bayviews

Is Vancouver developing Bus Rapid Transit (BRT)? That might help out in bus only corriders which are not high up on the list of for skytrain extensions.


----------



## Palal

Oh man... I wish we here in San Francisco could do the same things you guys do up there....


----------



## mr.x




----------



## bs_lover_boy

I actually went to that open house and saw them... So AMAZING!!!


----------



## excel91

^how could u say that, san fran has an amazing transit system.


----------



## rt_0891

Haber said:


> They could come up with creative ways to fund for the Millenium Line extension. Get a private company to pay for some of the cost and they get the building rights for properties surrounding the station. They do something like this in Hong Kong I think.


Yes, all of the property is managed by the MTR corporation's real-estate wing. Private developers get into partnerships with the MTR to gain the building rights for properties surrounding the station. This insures reasonable ridership levels, and helps cover a lot of the MTR's yearly expenses.


----------



## rt_0891

Wally said:


> ^ You forgot the ridiculously expensive cost of the Canada Line due to the Westside creme de la creme who simply insisted that any rapid transit built in their turf had to be tunneled even though for the rest of the Lower Mainland, elevated and at grade is an acceptable option. For the amount of extra costs incurred by the Canada Line, that could EASILY pay for an elevated Skytrain extension for UBC. And they could also have an actual physical link between the existing Skytrain system and the Canada Line system instead. So the Westside creme de la creme are solely to blame for all of the region's transportation problems... :no:


The underground option isn't necessary a bad decision, however the city's lack of political will to densify all of the areas surrounding the stations leaves a lot to be desired. Without a great deal of densification, ridership will fall below expectations. 

I don't really think Westside NIMBYs live on Cambie, since it's so far east already. They're usually at least west of Granville or Oak (Westside NIMBYs would be upset with an elevated line on Broadway to UBC).


----------



## matthewcs

The B-Lines are almost BRT's, just without designated roadways, which would be a great idea. The 99 is only overcapacity one way though. Translink should find a way to expand ridership in the opposite direction UBC students go in. SFU has the same problem, although our transit station is much closer. Still, 145 up in the morning is so far beyond Standing Room Only.


----------



## zivan56

Wally and his creme fetish are back 
I suggest we built the RAV line with concrete support beams going through people's homes, will you be happy then? Better yet, lets build something through downtown eastside and when resident complain we will call them "creme de la creme"


----------



## dchengg

well then in the morning:

For UBC, have more frequency going westbound than eastbound, and other way around for evening.

For SFU, Have more frquency going northbound, and other way around for evening.

should be like, for the "busy" side every 3 - 5 minutes, and the "deserted" side should be like every 7-10 minutes


----------



## zivan56

thryve said:


> Isn't the Canada Line just another line, being added to the Skytrain system? Like, there is the Millenium Line, and now they are adding Canada Line... nothing new there.
> 
> On another note, I have a question- is there currently any underground section of the Skytrain?
> 
> -thryve


It's already been asked before.

Basically:
No, its a completely different system (no interoperability except rail guage)

Yes, its underground in downtown.


----------



## dchengg

Will any of the YVR stations lead me to plane spotting?


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## dchengg

Overground said:


> You do realise this is a rapid transit line that not only serves the airport but also thousands of commuters in Richmond and Van. How could you have a car that carries only luggage?? :crazy:



if they dont get a luggage car, how will they be able to take people to the airport?? they dont just go to the airport by themselves, they have luggages. If they can ride the train but no luggages, no point of having it to connect tot he airport. and even if it is allowed on trains, there wont be enough space


----------



## arashi_1987

If there are no luggage trains...conflict can be expected between tourists and locals...it's like putting cargo onto a passenger train.

There could be 1 or 2 cars on each train that are especially designed for passengers with luggage, for example, make less poles and more foldable seats that can be folded up when room is needed for maximum space (or something like that...).


----------



## Overground

dchengg said:


> if they dont get a luggage car, how will they be able to take people to the airport?? they dont just go to the airport by themselves, they have luggages. If they can ride the train but no luggages, no point of having it to connect tot he airport. and even if it is allowed on trains, there wont be enough space



^You don't seem to get it. The Canada Line is not a rapid transit line specifically for the sole purpose of taking travellers to and from the airport. It is obviously also a rapid transit line for the local population to travel to and from work, for leisure, school, getting pissed at the pub, hockey games, etc. This was already explained in the thread before. 

I don't know how old you are but you seem quite young so I don't expect you to have travelled on different transport systems around the world. Basically a rapid transit line that serves an airport usually has spaces/area on a car that a traveller could put their luggage. It's not a large space as it's not supposed to be but it usually will suffice as a rapid transit line must also please the local user of the system as well. People with larger amounts of luggage usually take commuter style trains -which are better equipped for luggage like the Heathrow Express or Narita Express, or they use taxis, limousine buses or friends drive them.

You can see in this picture of a Piccadilly Line train in London which serves Heathrow Airport(a train line and an airport tremendously busier than anything Vancouver would ever have) that just by the doors(the blue cushion) there is a designated spot for luggage that is labelled. It's also a good spot to sit back on when it's busy. I know this 'cause I was on one last month. I hope this helps clarify things for you.


----------



## ryanr

:doh: i've been wondering what they were building right by Arthur Laing Bridge and the interchange to Richmond. I dont know why i didnt think of the RAV, i thought it was another ramp to the bridge


----------



## mr.x

arashi_1987 said:


> If there are no luggage trains...conflict can be expected between tourists and locals...it's like putting cargo onto a passenger train.
> 
> There could be 1 or 2 cars on each train that are especially designed for passengers with luggage, for example, make less poles and more foldable seats that can be folded up when room is needed for maximum space (or something like that...).


There are only 2 cars on each train.


Another example would be the NYC AirTrain which services JFK and Newark airports. AirTrain is SkyTrain technology and it's automated.


----------



## Overground

^Thanks for the example. They have the sensible seating of course which I found out is called 'longitudinal seating'. A google search came up with heaps of examples like London and Chicago.

The other thing I wanted to mention about any luggage considerations is the safety factor. In this day and age security is an ever increasing problem and not just in Europe, where unattended bags are prohibited. With the Olympics approaching we will probably see more and more security enforced by authorities and unattended bags I'm sure will be in those plans. At least they should be.


----------



## zonie

I'm not sure longitudinal seating is desirable. Sure it saves a little space (maybe 15% more train capacity? any numbers?), but it's considerably less comfortable when people fill up a bench (especially benches that don't have any dividers so you all smush up against each other). Also, braking and acceleration forces are less comfortable to cope with when sitting "longitudinally". You can't really see where the train's going, not that it matters so much in a tunnel. You've got to look toward strangers. Plus people step on your feet.

People don't like or aren't really used to the "packed like sardines" experience in Vancouver. The transit experience has to be at least moderately comfortable to attract people away from cars, since car travel is still a pretty quick way to get around in the region. I'm guessing the parties figure ridership would be maximized by creating that more attractive experience rather than maximizing each train's capacity (i.e. why not remove seats altogether?).

What's best for crowded London or Hong Kong might not be the best for Vancouver.


----------



## officedweller

The specifications in the Concession Agreement between InTransitBC, Canada Line Co and Translink requires theatre style transverse seating (2+2).

Bottom line for people using public transit to the airport - if you can't carry / walk with / handle your own luggage, you take a taxi or get a ride by car to the airport.


----------



## zivan56

For people complaning about luggage space: Even a Skytrain Mk I has more room than for example the S-Bahn from Munich airport to city centre. So it should not be a problem unless the cars are narrower (which they aren't) and the seats face one another (2x2) which they wont be. You can easily take up a row of seats with luggage if you are traveling from the airport, as it will be empty when you get on.


----------



## Rational Plan

As previously mentioned the airport line will serve a variety of users along its route. The core market for the system from the airport will be business travellors and tourists who are heading downtown. The next most important users will be residents who live near stations or one bus connection away and they most likely be working at the airport rather than cathching a plane. Local residents catching a plane are much more dispersed and are more likely to just drive. Single travellors are also more likely to use transit. Long haul travellors with large amounts of luggage and or families will just take a taxi or pay long term parking charges.


----------



## mr.x




----------



## elkram

Skybean said:


> types of buses .. .. .. they have low rider capacity.


Right. It's so hypocritical: Kyoto, Earth Summits, etc., yet the whole continent here's bent on a subsequent phase
to the one that shed whole tram networks. These dinky low-floors ply two routes that board an expressway here for
some miles at a time -- I've mostly had to stand for no less than 25 minutes at a time travelling either one of them.

Cheers,
Chris


----------



## Nutterbug

Just wondering. Is that the new livery to be eventually painted over on all Translink buses, or just the special trolleys?


----------



## dchengg

has anyone taken the 98B-line lately? it tends to be extremely slow... from getting 41st station to Richmond center has taken me around one hour, where before it has taken me around 20 minutes. two weeks ago i saw some people were hanging up some "bus only" signs for some lanes but that lane doesnt seem to be used. Hope Canada line will be done fast ^.^ is it possible for it to be finished before the expected date?


----------



## mr.x

^ 1) it depends on what time you take the 98 and whether or not there were accidents, which are quite common around Arthur Lang.

2) The Canada Line is scheduled to be in service on November 29, 2009, which is a Sunday btw. It's possible that it'll be finished in time, but not very likely.


----------



## officedweller

2005 Translink Operating Performance Report:

http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/board_files/meet_agenda_min/2006/04_19_06/4.13.pdf

Operating cost recoveries (remember these would be averaged over all routes for the mode):

Conventional Bus: 51.9%
Seabus: 84.0%
Skytrain: 100.4%
Westcoast Express: 69.72%
West Vancouver Transit: 79.44%
Community Shuttles: 39.60%
HandyDart: 5.49%


----------



## dchengg

i think that translink should put more information signs on platforms (those blue boxes hanging from the ceilings of platforms) there are only one on each side..


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## mr.x

^ red signs for the Canada Line actually.


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## GO_Rider

rise_against said:


> Should have replaced and invested some of your money into LRT.


From what I heard, light rail vehicles are not so good at climbing the hills and inclinces in Vancouver and area.

Those buses' front views look pretty good.


----------



## mr.x

GO_Rider said:


> From what I heard, light rail vehicles are not so good at climbing the hills and inclinces in Vancouver and area.
> 
> Those buses' front views look pretty good.


LRT can't go on steep grades. SkyTrain can go up on grades as much as 8%.


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## officedweller

Yeah, the grid of trolley bus routes up major streets probably wouldn't be able to be replaced with streetcars or LRT without tunneling or switchbacks.


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## splashflash

*Streetcars converted to Trolley buses 1950s*

Actually, most trolley bus lines in Vancouver actually were streetcars - 41st Ave, Broadway, Hastings, 4th Ave.; the major north-south lines in Vancouver - Oak, Victoria Drive, Fraser, Main, Granville, Cambie and Dunbar. Tracks were ripped up in the late 1940s and 1950s unfortunately. Check out Heather Conn's "Vancouver's Glory Years". The "Beltway" in the West End with its hills had streetcars.


----------



## dchengg

^^ohh are you talking about the chunk of area thats on 2nd avenue? i saw train tracks and a streetcar there long long time ago...


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## Bertez

I like how the front of the bus looks.....but the back looks like a typical NA bus, which is not a bad thing


----------



## nname

Someone from an e-mail list points out that... its seems like Translink is buying 72 new skytrain cars instead of original 34?



> Reference No. Q6-0001
> Title: Supply of up to 72 Fully Automated Advanced
> Light Rapid Transit Passenger Vehicles
> Type: Expression of Interest


Are they planning to retire some MkI's? 72 seems a bit too much for expansion...

(source: http://www.translink.bc.ca/About_TransLink/Business_Opportunities/default.asp)

PS. My 72nd post! What a coincidence...


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## mr.x

*Broadway/City Hall Station*

Clear, simple forms, are carefully detailed in a common composite structural system. Repetitive elements are designed to maximize the benefits of each material while minimizing construction costs and enhancing the experience of daily travelers.

Concrete, metal and wood reflect upon the robust heritage of Vancouver and British Columbia and allude to the natural progression from the mass of the earth to the tracery of the forest canopy above.


On a gentle ramp, travelers descend from West Broadway to
the concourse level of the station. Upon exit, they can enjoy
a view of the downtown and North Shore mountains.
Generous windows maximize visual accessibility and light,
while all information and ticket devices can be easily located
along the sky lit east wall.

Within the large station volume, the concourse provides
retail opportunity as well as a commanding view of arriving
trains and both platforms below . At grade, bicycle lockers
are provided on the south end of the station where possible
landscaping connects to the garden of Vancouver City Hall
and the proposed boulevard trees along Cambie Street.
The precise location of the station platform is to be finalized.


The roof plays off the slope of Cambie Street, opening to the view of the downtown and North Shore. It tilts up southward to allow access to natural light, while canting up to Cambie as a welcoming gesture to pedestrians.

The experience of entry is enhanced by a skylight that bathes the concrete wall behind the ticket machines. Additional light provided by abundant windows helps ease the transition between the platforms below and the sidewalks above.


In response to urban design panel input, aesthetic commonality with the False Creek South station has been strengthened as well as with other stations along the Cambie corridor.

An upward slope at the south end of the roof increases the amount of natural light penetrating into the concourse ticketing area. The head house design helps establish a civic presence and
accommodates access opportunities to the adjacent future
development site to the east.


Grade Level











Concourse Level











Platform Level


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## mr.x

*False Creek South Station*

Form and structure refer to the local legacy of sawmills
and shipbuilding, while the long glass façade maximizes
visual access. The simple building form moderates
between the scales of the Cambie Bridge and future
development.

Glazed openings in the north wall provide visual links to
the neighbourhoods of False Creek.
An overlook from entry level, combined with a skylight
provide direct light into the concourse level as well as
down the escalator, deep into the station. This enhances
the transition from platform to grade and back. As the
day progresses, the light changes, illuminating the
station in a myriad of ways.

Experience is through the senses: visual poetics of
natural light, contrasting textures and acoustic
properties of the building’s materials.


Grade Level











Concourse Level











Platform Level


----------



## mr.x

*THESE SLIDES ARE CONTINUED......*


----------



## mr.x

*slides continued.....*


----------



## mr.x




----------



## officedweller

Here's what's set out in the 2005 Trnsit Capacity Study where the recommendation was to accelerate the purchase of the 34 Skytrain cars. Could be that they're moving to 4 car MKII trains to deal with the Broadway Station overcrowding problem.

_"SkyTrain was found to be within limits on the overall system capacity, however, as noted in the May 20th report to the Board, Review of Millennium Line Ridership Growth, the capacity constraints in the system lie more in the “choke” points rather than
overall capacity. On the segment from Broadway Station west to Main Street Station, (See Chart ‘SkyTrain Passenger Volumes...’), train capacity is at approximately 99% of available capacity suggesting that additional capacity is required. Extra capacity can be achieved through longer trains,however this requires additional cars. The Three Year Plan has identified the requirement for 34 additional car with delivery anticipated in late 2008 but not in service until late 2009 based on previous experience. The BC Rapid Transit Company currently utilizes over 90% of the fleet for peak period service therefore, it is not possible to put more cars into service (the industry average would be more in the range of 85% to 88%). An option is to reduce the service on the under utilized portions of the system (e.g., Millennium Line) and add more cars to the Expo Line. This is difficult to do from an operational perspective and will have negative impacts on other customers and is not recommended._

http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/board_files/meet_agenda_min/2005/06_22_05/4.5transit.pdf


----------



## officedweller

Posted by nname over at SSP:

Translink news release with the Canada Line Station names, including this zinger for Robson Station -->> "Vancouver City Centre Station"

The only other one that is odd is Olympic Village. It's not really that close to the Olympic Village and I doubt the buildings/condos there will continue to be called that after the games. I also thought that teh station would be closed during the Games? (but that could have been when the village was closer to the bridge).

Here's the full text of the News Release.

May 09, 2006
*Canada Line station names selected*

TransLink has merged input from Vancouver and Richmond with technical conventions for naming rapid transit stations to determine the names for the 16 Canada Line stations scheduled to open in November 2009. 

Station names are chosen primarily to provide passengers with wayfinding information they need for connecting transit services, which was the case when SkyTrain stations on the Expo and Millennium Line were named. Over time, however, some communities or key destinations were included in station names to enhance information for transit customers and to establish the stations as focal points in the community. For example, the Expo Line's Main Street station became "Main Street / Science World," the Joyce Station was renamed "Joyce / Collingwood" and Stadium was transformed to "Stadium / Chinatown."

The same approach will be evident in the names chosen for Canada Line stations.

*Waterfront Station*: maintaining the name of Vancouver's major transit hub, served by SeaBus, West Coast Express, the Canada Line, Expo and Millennium Lines, and Coast Mountain Bus services. 

*Vancouver City Centre*: the Canada Line station between Robson Street and West Georgia Street. 

*Yaletown - Roundhouse*: adds reference to the Roundhouse Community Centre, an important piece of Vancouver's transportation history and a neighbourhood focal point, to the original name. 

*Olympic Village*: serving the False Creek South area at 2nd Avenue and Cambie, and near the site of the Athlete's Village for the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games. Use of 'Olympic Village' as a station name is subject to an acceptable license agreement being concluded between the Vancouver Organizing Committee for the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games and Translink and the approval of such license agreement by the International Olympic Committee. 

*Broadway - City Hall*: the intersection with a major east/west corridor and 99B bus route; also reflecting the proximity to Vancouver City Hall. 

*King Edward*: the intersection with King Edward Avenue; again, an important east/west transit route. 

*Oakridge - 41st Avenue*: identifies the neighbourhood, the shopping centre and an important cross street on the transit system. 

*Langara - 49th Avenue*: combines the name of the community and the college with an important transit route. 

*Marine Drive*: notes the significant intersection with Marine Drive and the bus loop proposed for this station. 

*Bridgeport*: the station that will be the key transit connection and park and ride in Richmond for the Canada Line service from Richmond to Vancouver, Canada Line service to Vancouver International Airport, and highway coach services from Ladner, Delta, South Surrey and White Rock. 

*Aberdeen*: reflective of the neighbourhood; the intersection is Cambie, but reference to that street could result in confusion with Cambie Street in Vancouver." 

*Lansdowne*: references the location of the station at Lansdowne, which will be an important east/west corridor in Richmond 

*Richmond - Brighouse*: incorporates an important historic name in Richmond to the station at the city's centre.

On Sea Island, the Vancouver International Airport Authority will name its three Canada Line stations *Templeton*, *Sea Island Centre* and *YVR - Airport*. The naming of future stations at 33rd Avenue and 57th Avenue in Vancouver as well as a fourth station on Sea Island has been deferred until construction on them proceeds.

The Canada Line rapid transit system will run fully separated from traffic between Waterfront Centre in Vancouver to the heart of Richmond and to Vancouver International Airport. The line will provide the equivalent of 10 road lanes of capacity to move people on the region's busiest north/south corridor and will be an important new link in TransLink's regional transportation network.

The project is a funding partnership of the Governments of Canada and British Columbia, TransLink, Vancouver International Airport Authority and InTransit BC, the consortium that will design, build, operate, maintain and partially finance the line. Canada Line Rapid Transit Inc., a subsidiary of TransLink, manages the Project. For complete details on the project, visit www.canadaline.ca


----------



## Smelser

ssiguy2 said:


> Translink has this bizzare habit of building SkyTrain/LRT for suburbanits first. Its the only city I have ever heard of where they build from the suburbs to downtown as opposed to building from downtown outwards.
> They are also set up for suburbanites. The M-Line has stations all thru Burnaby but doesn't have one at Nanaimo?????
> ...
> Any other city would think you were joking. This is why for all its money spent on SkyTrain and soon to be RAV, ridership on Translink is still lower on a percapita basis than Tor/Mon/Ott/Cal.
> Calgary's CTrain carries the same number of passengers yet serves a city less than half the size on fewer km on a system that has cost one third the price.



You're joking, right? There is a station at Nanaimo Street on the Expo (Bill Bennett) line.

The idea that these 80 kmh systems have been selected with suburbanites in mind is really a case of adding insult to injury. You're right about this system being a gross failure, but ask yourself why. What's happened in Vancouver is that moderate speed rolling stock, which is intended to be used for intermediate trips connecting local buses with higher speed heavy rail systems, has been pressed into service as the long haul trunk line. It doesn't work because it can't work. 

Consider this bit of prize lunacy. When the "Green Line" is finished out to Coquitlam Centre, a person taking two Skytrains and then the Green line will arrive at Coquitlam Centre in an hour. Compared to 45 minutes on the #160 bus. And compare to about one hour (Translink estimate) driving one's car.

So after spending billions on elevated guideways to carry 80 kmh rolling stock, and then joining that up with a conventional, ongrade LRT at a cost of several hundred million more, a traveller will be getting to Coquitlam 15 minutes slower than using a setup of buses and HOV lanes on city streets. Brilliant!


----------



## Smelser

officedweller said:


> The project is a funding partnership of the Governments of Canada and British Columbia, TransLink, Vancouver International Airport Authority and InTransit BC, the consortium that will design, build, operate, maintain and partially finance the line. Canada Line Rapid Transit Inc., a subsidiary of TransLink, manages the Project. For complete details on the project, visit www.canadaline.ca


I realize there are many who think this project is just wonderful. While my main criticism is the slow speeds, I really think this whole P3 thing is just rhubbish. 

Does anyone seriously believe that if costs keep on rising, and depending on how China's expansion plans proceed that possibility cannot be ruled out, that the contractors are just going to keep on digging themselves in deeper and deeper? I asked the same question about Translink's Golden Ears Bridge. Does anyone seriously believe that the contractors are such obedient little dependents that they will keep on building and building, no matter what?

In a backhanded way, I am actually rather optimistic that the RAV or Canada line offers us an historic opportunity for genuine reform in the Greater Vancouver region. If the contractors keep on coming back time and again for more cash, each time swearing like Hitler that they have "no more financial ambitions", what's the public reaction going to be? How are provincial and local governments going to handle that reaction?

There is a chance here for the entire Lower Mainland political structure and the associated transportation and zoning ideology to be overturned. We could end up with unified local government, including unified police, fire and other emergency services, and a sensible transportation policy that combines heavy rail, essentially improved and sped-up WCExpress services, with a suburban freeway network that provides a metropolitan ring road. That, coupled with sensible zoning in Vancouver and Burnaby (remove floor plate and FSR restrictions, and raise areas zoned for 3 stories to 6 or 7 with the same, residential like setbacks and landscaping that people are used to), could also lead to affordable market housing that can accommodate families with children in livilable sized apartments, and therefore a more internationally competitive Vancouver economy.

So hear's hoping that the Canada Line's cost estimates are a complete bust and that it brings down the entire GVRD house of cards with it!


----------



## splashflash

Yah, whatever. Toronto has many of the "one system" services and the city services haven't got better. The unions with their stranglehold on the monopoly services such as those you have mentioned would assist in ratcheting up demands and ratepayers would see their taxes increased even more than now. Both rising housing prices and rocketing wage increases for civic employees would ensure that.

The GVRD house of cards replaced by what? Maybe four regions as ahem, Doug McCallum (of all people) proposed. 

Asphalt socialism for Surrey and Maple Ridge and Langley (paid for by property taxes perhaps). To hell with regional air quality, pave over the farmland for parking for malls. Ring roads as Kevin Falcon seems to propose. Tolled, I guess or "free"? Why not an underground Arbutus Corridor ring road connecting to the Oak Street Bridge to round out your suggestion?


----------



## Smelser

splashflash said:


> Yah, whatever. Toronto has many of the "one system" services and the city services haven't got better. The unions with their stranglehold on the monopoly services such as those you have mentioned would assist in ratcheting up demands and ratepayers would see their taxes increased even more than now.



I am not sure what you mean by "one system". As for organized labour, they are not a culprit at all. They might object to amalgamation because they fear losses of seniority, but the trade off is increased promotional opportunities.

The real obstacle, as you well know, are real estate interests, and the biggest of those is the small property owner, the huge mass of individual home and apartment owners who have bought into the ideology of supply restrictions through abuse of the zoning power that will enhance their untaxed capital gains.


----------



## matthewcs

The skytrain is only slower than driving in non-rush hour times. Trust me, i do this route everyday. It takes me 40 minutes to drive from Ioco to Como Lake via St Johns and Clark in the morning. Translink says 25 min for evergreen line? I'll take it. Also, if you use transit, you don't have to pay for gas. 1.216 my arse!

Didn't the skytrain use to be faster too? I seem to remeber being about 16 and clocking the train between Lougheed and Production way at around 100kph (according to my odometer)


----------



## Smelser

matthewcs said:


> The skytrain is only slower than driving in non-rush hour times. ...
> 
> 1.216 my arse!
> 
> Didn't the skytrain use to be faster too? I seem to remeber being about 16 and clocking the train between Lougheed and Production way at around 100kph (according to my odometer)



Once George W. Bush and Dick Cheney vacate the White House, oil and gas prices will start to moderate. By 2010 I expect to be paying between 60 and 70 cents retail for gasoline.

You make a good point about rush hour versus other times. I based my statements on the background report done for Translink by Delcan:

http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/pd...s/northeast_sector/final_technical_report.pdf

In the pdf file, look at Exhibit 5.3 on page 5-4, which is actually page 56 of 106 in the file. It gives an assortment of times for trips starting at Coquitlam City Hall. Curiously, I can't find a statement one way or the other about the time of day they are assuming in their calculation of door-to-door times, but they do state that for transit it doesn't include time waiting for connections, only in-vehicle time.

Elsewhere the report states that they assumed that Port Mann would be twinned and Hwy 1 expanded by one additional lane each way in all their projections. And they also state that the maximum Skytrain speed is 80 kmh, but the LRT would actually have slightly faster maximums of 90 kmh, but be slowed on the NWest alignment by intersections.


----------



## npinguy

Smelser said:


> Once George W. Bush and Dick Cheney vacate the White House, oil and gas prices will start to moderate. By 2010 I expect to be paying between 60 and 70 cents retail for gasoline.


Yes, and I expect that by 2010 we'll all be eating sugar plums, and dancing around merrily on soft green pastures while naked nymphs frolic around and toss flower petals at our feet.

And my expectation might be more realistic.



Gas prices are insane because oil production has reached capacity, and is no longer increasing. Meanwhile, the middle east oil barons and the western corporations have a stranglehold on the product which means they can charge whatever they want. With hundreds of millions of cars in north america alone, they all know the demand isn't going anywhere, and since they're in charge of the supply, the prices will stay up.

Maybe, if we're all lucky, by 2010 cheap efficient alternative fuels will be discovered, but even if that happens, gasoline won't be 60 or 70 cents a gallon unless the US finds an oil field the size of california within it's borders.


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## officedweller

Remember that Translink did not want the Evergreen Line to cannibalize the premium Westcoast Express - that's one of the reasons that a "slower" system (non-exclusive ROW) was acceptable for the Evergreen Line. If you want a fast direct connection to downtown - as a 9-5 commuter - you take the WCE, not the Evergreen<->M-Line<->Expo-Line route. 

The Evergreen Line (as part of the "T-Line" in the Livable Region Strategic Plan) is also intended to provide connectivity to Surrey (again via the Evergreen<->M-Line<->Expo-Line route in the other direction). 

I think what you'll now see is lower capacity streetcar type systems built from the ends of the backbone systems - i.e. it's already being planned in Surrey to Guildford from Central City and I could see it down Railway, etc. to Steveston from Richmond Centre.


----------



## Smelser

npinguy said:


> Yes, and I expect that by 2010 we'll all be eating sugar plums, and dancing around merrily on soft green pastures while naked nymphs frolic around and toss flower petals at our feet.
> 
> And my expectation might be more realistic.
> 
> ... gasoline won't be 60 or 70 cents a gallon unless the US finds an oil field the size of california within it's borders.


I like the bit about the nymphs!

I meant 60 or 70 cents a litre.

For two fairly authoritative reports on the likely future of the oil market, here are two sources:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/feature_articles/2004/worldoilsupply/oilsupply04.html

Aug 2004 Long-Term World Oil Supply Scenarios: The Future Is Neither as Bleak or Rosy as Some Assert, by John H. Wood, Gary R. Long, David F. Morehouse, Energy Information Administration, US Dept of Energy


http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2005/01/pdf/chapter4.pdf

World Economic Outlook:Globalization and External Imbalances, April 2005, A Survey by the Staff of the International Monetary Fund
Chapter IV: WILL THE OIL MARKET CONTINUE TO BE TIGHT?

The second of these, the IMF study, projects that crude would sell at between $35 and $55 per barrell between 2005 and 2030. One could well object that we have already exceeded that with crude at $70 per barrell. I interpret that as a short term price peak that doesn't affect the longer term picture, which is that we are already paying the highest prices we can reasonably expect, and that lower, more normal prices are undoubtedly ahead.


----------



## Smelser

officedweller said:


> Remember that Translink did not want the Evergreen Line to cannibalize the premium Westcoast Express - that's one of the reasons that a "slower" system (non-exclusive ROW) was acceptable for the Evergreen Line. If you want a fast direct connection to downtown - as a 9-5 commuter - you take the WCE, not the Evergreen<->M-Line<->Expo-Line route.


I believe you're referring to Section 6 of the report I cited above, in which they project that a Skytrain extension to Coquitlam would reduce WCExpress ridership from over 2000 to about 900. Frankly, I find that projection to be completely unbelievable. There must be something very wrong with their modelling to produce a result as perverse as that. 

Once WCExpress leaves Port Moody it presently has only one drop-off, Waterfront Station. It will make that trip in 25 minutes, or 30 minutes from Coquitlam Stations, whereas according to Exhibit 5.3, even a Skytrain extension to the Northeast sector would be making that trip, or an equivalent one from Coquitlam City Hall, in 61 minutes. Why on earth is someone going to jump on a one hour train when they are used to a half hour train? 

The only possibility is that Translink figures that a huge number of these WCExpress passengers are presently going downtown, and then heading east and south on the Skytrain to destinations such as Broadway/Commercial or Nanaimo St, Joyce, etc. From my own daily experience as as WCExpress rider from Maple Meadows I find this very, very hard to believe. There might be a small number of people making those connections, but most WCExpress riders are headed either downtown, or midtown (Broadway/Cambie thru to Broadway/Granville, or further west such as UBC.

The real fear is not that the Skytrain/LRT will cannibalize the WCExpress, but that they will have to cancel both the Express and the regular bus service in order for force people to use the new "rapid transit" system. Again referring to Exhibit 5.3 in the above cited Delcan report, they project a trip from Coquitlam City Hall to Waterfront would have been 61 minutes with a Skytrain extension and 72/73 minutes with the selected LRT. Compare that to a humble #160 bus, taking 45 minutes to do the same trip using HOV lanes. All that extra "investment" for a system that will take a at least 33% longer to do the same trip.


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## officedweller

Yup - I think that's the reference. 
I think you're right - I don't think that people would switch. 
But in addition to destination points west of downtown, I think that the 5 trains per morning or per evening for WCE is more of a restriction that commuters would try to avoid by Skytraining. i.e. instead of rushing for the train home, they could hang out downtown, shop, eat, etc. - or just be impatient that they missed their scheduled train and hop on Skytrain. 

As I mentioned, the Coquitlam Line is part of the Livable Region Strategic Plan and should be judged solely on connectivity to Downtown Vancouver - it serves to connect to Surrey, New West and Metrotown too. Remember that the original plan for Skytrain to Lougheed and Coquitlam was for a Skytrain branch connecting to the Expo Line at either Royal Oak or Columbia. That would have been even longer than the Millennium Line route, even with the transfers.

I'm tending to think of the Evergreen line as a feeder line - either into WCE at Coquitlam or Port Moody for downtown rush hour commuters or feeding into Skytrain at Lougheed for regional commuters or off-hour commuters (too bad no one seat ride).


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## alesmarv

They should not haver feeder lines on the burrard penisula, its basicly flushing money down the toilet because these street level lines like the Evergreen line will be ineficient withing a decade because of the growth in these areas. Actualy in my opinion the evergreen line will be obsolete the very day it will be built, for me it will still be twice as fast to go by car during rush hour from burnaby to coquitalm than using that line, and might i ad cheaper. Now if they have a built a skytrain line than that would take about the same amount of time as a car to make that trip, and i would strongly cosinder taking it, and if not then i would end up taking it in the near future as congestion on the roads gets worse.


----------



## en

Wasn't the whole reason why SkyTrain was NOT built was because of Port Moody NIBMYs not wanting their "small town atmosphere" to be changed do to the elevated structure of SkyTrain? (I don't see how great the atmosphere in Port Moody is when a 4-6 lane highway (7A I think) runs straight thru the main street.....)

SkyTrain could have been used to increase density in Coquitlam (which is bascially a giant suburb)


----------



## officedweller

alesmarv said:


> They should not haver feeder lines on the burrard penisula, its basicly flushing money down the toilet because these street level lines like the Evergreen line will be ineficient withing a decade because of the growth in these areas. Actualy in my opinion the evergreen line will be obsolete the very day it will be built, for me it will still be twice as fast to go by car during rush hour from burnaby to coquitalm than using that line, and might i ad cheaper. Now if they have a built a skytrain line than that would take about the same amount of time as a car to make that trip, and i would strongly cosinder taking it, and if not then i would end up taking it in the near future as congestion on the roads gets worse.


I find it reassuring that Translink will NOT be demolishing the unbuilt siding and third platform at Lougheed Station when it builds the Evergreen line. That way, Skytrain could still be expanded with a branch along the southeast corridor along Lougheed Highway.

en, that's right. The Skytrain allignment was along the CP tracks, not down the middle of the street. I think it may have been at grade so it would have blocked access across the CP tracks. If it was elevated, it wou;ldn't block access but would block views.


----------



## mr.x




----------



## mr.x

*CANADA LINE TRAIN INFORMATION*

Rotem's XG EMU Intercity Type (K-Series) offers passenger convenience. Each component of XG EMU reduces the "total life cycle cost" of the vehicle by reducing the maintenance costs.

Supplier: Rotem (Hyundai Motor Group)
Model: XG EMU Intercity Type (K-Series)
Maximum Opereating Speed: 80 km/h
Maximum Design Speed: 110 km/h
Driver: Automation/Driverless
Acceleration: 1.3 m/s(2)
Jerk Limit: 0.8 m/s(3)
Service: 0.8 ~ 1.36 m/sec(2)
Emergency: 1.35 m/sec(2)
Noise level: 70 dB(A) at 80 km/h (Ground)
Line Voltage: 800 V DC 

Train Formation: [A+A] (2 vehicles per train)
End to End Journey Time: 25/26 minutes
Pasasenger Capacity: 334 per train
Seating Configuration: Side-by-side transverse, flip-up seats at wheelchair and bicycle positions
Bicycle Accommodation: 2 per train
Wheelchair Accommodation: 4 per train
Width: 3 metres
Height: 3.6 metres
Length: 41 metres per train
Weight: 76 tonnes empty
Car Body Material: Stainless Steel 301L
Interior Material: Sandwich Material with NOMEX (Honeycomb)

Propulsion & Electric Systems: TMS & VVVF Control (IGBT), AC Traction Motor, SIV: VVVF Control, IGBT
Bogie: Bolsterless Type, Rubber & Air Spring Suspension
Brake System: Regenerative + Dynamic + Friction Brake, Compressor: AC Motor Driven, Friction Brake : Wheel Mounted Disc Brake
Air Conditionning Equipment: R134a, Roof Mounted Package type, 42 kW/car
Gangway: Wide Open Gangway (high noise transmission loss)
Passenger Door: Electric Sliding Plug-in Type

Security Features: Passenger Silent Alarm, Emergency passenger-operated intercom panels, Modern vandal-resistant finishes
Information System: EIDS (Electronic Information Display System), Electronic “Destination” signs on the outside of each vehicle ("YVR-AIRPORT", "WATERFRONT", "RICHMOND"), Public Address System announcing next stations

Order Quantity: 20 trains; 40 vehicles
Order Cost: CAN$1.5 million per vehicle; CAN$60 million contract
Order Delivery: 2009

Currently In Opereration XG EMU's: Hong Kong MTR, France, Italy


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## nname

officedweller said:


> I find it reassuring that Translink will NOT be demolishing the unbuilt siding and third platform at Lougheed Station when it builds the Evergreen line. That way, Skytrain could still be expanded with a branch along the southeast corridor along Lougheed Highway.


I would also hope that they will not demolishing the third track/platform. I hope that they would actually finish building the third platform, and route the westbound train to that platform. So track 1 will remain having eastbound train to Columbia, track 2 will be reserved for future short turn train at Lougheed (so the train can unload passengers at the 2nd platform and wait there until it can switch over to the 3rd platform to begin westbound service without having to go all to way to the center track besides TCH or block the thru trains on both direction while it is switching tracks). The LRT would take the new 4th platform connecting to the westbound skytrain at the 3rd platform.


----------



## officedweller

Nice proposal (esp. since people are more time constrained getting to work in the morning than getting back home) - write that in to Translink.....

The short turning could be to/from the east as well (probably planned that way for when the PMC line was to be built, as the PMC<->VCC segment was to be a one seat ride.)

*************


New pics at the gallery:

http://www.canadaline.ca/galleryFront.asp


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## bs_lover_boy

Great Progress in Vancouver, but in Richmond, it's still the utility relocation along no. 3 Road!!!


----------



## samsonyuen

Great to see construction for any public transit in Canada! Like the new trains too!


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## mr.x

Vancouver Sun, Page A01, 25-May-2006
*More city residents legging it to work*

By Frances Bula

More people in Vancouver walk to work than anywhere in North America except New York City.

The proportion of people commuting by bicycle has doubled in 10 years.
And the transit system, with triple the number of people using it to go to the University of B.C. since 1997 thanks to U-Pass, has become so popular that it's in danger of losing passengers because of overcrowding.

That's the latest transportation picture for Vancouver, a city that is setting the standard as North America's "greenest" city as it bucks the trend to more cars, roads and traffic that prevails elsewhere.

Vancouver has already exceeded the goals it had for 2021 when it comes to reducing car trips and promoting cycling and walking downtown, a shift that many environmentalists and planners say is vital in order to reduce pollution and create more livable cities.

"Our projection for 2021 was to be at 18 per cent for all biking and walking trips. We're now at 27 to 32 per cent, as of 2004. This does not look very ambitious any more," says Lon LaClaire, Vancouver's strategic transportation planning engineer, the co-author of a report outlining the city's progress on its transportation plan.

That's largely because of the city's hugely successful development of a residential downtown, he said. Having 72,000 people living on the downtown peninsula surrounding the central business district is a major reason for that radical increase in walking and cycling.

"There are two things that affect how people get around -- land use and structure. The bigger piece is probably the land use." The city has also doubled the number of kilometres of cycling routes in the past 10 years and worked on ways to make walking more enjoyable.

But people outside Vancouver's boundaries are also choosing not to bring their cars.

Although trips to the city have increased by 23 per cent between 1995 and 2005, vehicle traffic decreased by 10 per cent across Vancouver boundaries in the same period.

The just-released statistics in the city report come from trip diaries, surveys and 24-hour road counts done mostly in 2004.

All of that is in stark contrast to most of the United States. The U.S. Department of Transportation noted recently that "the private vehicle, especially driven alone to work, is the mode of choice. . . . In every major metro area, workers who drove alone to work increased in numbers and share in the last 40 years."

*The one problem area for Vancouver is central Broadway, where drivers in cars still account for 50 per cent of all trips. That's partly because the transit connections between the city's two major office hubs -- Broadway and downtown -- are so bad. It's also because transit along Broadway is at capacity.

"We're hitting the wall," said LaClaire. "There's no more capacity in the system for them to get on."

More than 60,000 people use the Broadway buses every day and passengers are getting left at stops because buses are so crowded, even though they're running at one a minute.

LaClaire said the Broadway/Commercial transit hub is the city's biggest congestion problem, with the result that transit use has dropped off slightly in the past year because some people are giving up.

"It's a really tragic thing for us. Anywhere else, carrying that number of people would be on [light rapid transit]."

The extension of the Millennium SkyTrain line from Vancouver Community College to Granville Street had been a priority for TransLink and was originally scheduled to be done by this year. But it was bumped for the Richmond-to-downtown Canada Line and the proposed light rail line into Coquitlam, Port Moody and Port Coquitlam.

LaClaire said some of the Broadway problems will be relieved by the Canada Line, which will create a fast link from Broadway to downtown. But, LaClaire said, the extension to Granville has to be a priority.

His department plans to set new transportation targets for 2031, since it has already achieved most of what it planned to do by 2021.*

FAR FROM THE ROAD LESS TRAVELLED
Researchers investigate the busiest blocks for pedestrian traffic in Vancouver and preferred methods of travelling in the city. Studies find that more Vancouver residents walk to work than in any other Canadian city.

BUSIEST BLOCKS
A 2002 study flagged these among the downtown spots with the highest number of observed pedestrians between 10 a.m. and 2 p.m. and 3 p.m. and 6 p.m.:
- Robson, Burrard to Granville
- Hornby, Robson to Pender
- Alberni, Bute to Burrard
- Howe, Dunsmuir to Cordova
- Robson, Denman to Broughton
- Davie, Hornby to Granville
- Pender, Carrall to Main
- Burrard, Davie to Comox
- Granville, Davie to Smithe
- Pender, Bute to Granville
- Seymour, Pender to Cordova
- Hastings, Burrard to Homer
- Smithe, Hornby to Granville


----------



## dchengg

what i think why passengers get left at stations is because, its either the buses dont come at all, and if they come 2 or 3+ buses come all at once...


----------



## mr.x

bs_lover_boy said:


> Great Progress in Vancouver, but in Richmond, it's still the utility relocation along no. 3 Road!!!


Still, we're right on schedule....approximately 10% of the project is completed or 5 months out of 52 months of construction.


----------



## mr.x

To get an idea of how long the Canada Line station platforms will be, just look at this aerial picture of Kuala Lumpur's monorail. Our Canada Line stations are 41 metres long (with an exception of a few at 50 metres at the most)....the monorail platform length in the picture is 40 metres.


----------



## Smelser

mr.x said:


> *CANADA LINE TRAIN INFORMATION*
> 
> Rotem's XG EMU Intercity Type (K-Series) offers passenger convenience. Each component of XG EMU reduces the "total life cycle cost" of the vehicle by reducing the maintenance costs.
> ...
> Train Formation: [A+A] (2 vehicles per train)
> End to End Journey Time: 25/26 minutes
> Pasasenger Capacity: 334 per train
> Seating Configuration: Side-by-side transverse, flip-up seats at wheelchair and bicycle positions
> Bicycle Accommodation: 2 per train
> Wheelchair Accommodation: 4 per train
> Width: 3 metres
> Height: 3.6 metres
> Length: 41 metres per train


Really? Only two bicycles per train, spread over 300+ people? That's not really consistent with the declared priority of encouraging biking and walking.

With a frequency of one train every two minutes, capacity would be about 10,000 people per hour, or about the same as five lanes of freeway, each lane carrying 2,000 single occupant vehicles per hour. Of course one solitary freeway lane carrying 1000 single occupant vehicles and 1000 50 person buses would have an hourly capacity of 51,000 people per hour, but there's some important reason why that doesn't count.

Finally, at 3 metres by about 40 metres, the total area of the trains is about 140 square metres. When carrying over 300 people, there will be well over two people per square metre, which it sticks in my mind is pretty much the standard assumption in the industry, if not three people per square metre. That doesn't leave a whole lot of extra room for luggage, or child strollers, or any of a number of other things. This tendency to pack people in like sardines hardly makes the transit experience more attractive.


----------



## Smelser

mr.x said:


>


Many of these brochures tend to focus on things that the average transit user isn't really concerned with, stylistic matters for example. I note that the sketch plans make references to "washroom". Since it's singular, I assume it's an employee washroom, and that transit users will still have no access to washrooms. 

I wonder if this is typical of subway/rail systems in other cities? For someone contemplating a one and a half hour trip from, say, downtown to White Rock, it's a pretty demeaning thing to realize that, more important that having a pass or cash for the fare, you better be God Damn sure you've totally drained your kidneys and bowels before starting the journey.


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## dchengg

my dad always said, when earthquake comes, good bye richmond! and we have a chance of getting an earthquake!


----------



## mrtfreak

*Question*

I was just wondering, did they explore the option of placing the Evergreen line underground before deciding to go for Light Rail instead? If so, I guess the costs would not have justified the line being built eh?


----------



## mr.x

^ no. but about 2 km of the line will be underground because of steep grades.


----------



## mrtfreak

I see, which part of the line is that at? Why did they choose Light Rail over underground SkyTrain. Sorry, not really clear about it. Seems to be such a waste to have that extra platform at Lougheed to me.


----------



## Smelser

*WAGES FOR TUNNEL BORING WORKERS*



mr.x said:


> *A little beauty and a great big boring beast*
> 
> Raina Delisle, The Province
> Published: Sunday, June 11, 2006
> 
> Four-year-old Leilani Henry was bestowed a "boring" honour yesterday, but she was excited.
> 
> The 440-tonne tunnel-boring machine that will dig a pair of 2.5-kilometre tunnels under downtown Vancouver for the Canada Line rapid transit system was named after the little girl.
> 
> ...
> 
> A bottle of champagne was thrown against the machine, "Sweet Leilani," by Canada Line president and CEO Jane Bird, InTransitBC president and CEO Jean-Marc Arbaud and Jim Burke of SNC-Lavalin.
> ...
> © The Vancouver Province 2006



The machine is undoubtedly impressive, but a recent article in Business in Vancouver by Jim Sinclair sheds a bit of light on how InTranistBC is operating this equipment.

From this week's edition of BIV - 2 sides

*Head to Head : Should Canada make greater use of immigrant guest workers to meet rising labour demand and increased labour shortages?

No Jim Sinclair 

Exploitation of guest workers erodes wage levels and standards*

“If you don’t like your job, you’re always free to quit and find another.”
That’s the classic employer response to discontented workers, particularly in times of high unemployment and especially when they’re talking union.
But more and more B.C. employers are finding too many workers ready to take that advice as the economy heats up. 
A Canadian worker confronted with low wages, poor working conditions or an abusive employer can and will exercise his or her God-given right to quit.
Rather than raise wages or improve working conditions, more employers are looking overseas for help – or seeking government intervention to push down labour standards rather than responding to labour market shortages with improved wages.
The result is dramatic growth of guest worker programs in agriculture and construction that see indentured workers imported from Mexico, Costa Rica and other countries on term contracts.
If they don’t like their jobs, too bad. They can quit, but if they do, they’re put right back on the plane to unemployment at home. 
That reality was underlined in a recent Business in Vancouver story by reporter Peter Mitham (Growers look further afield for harvest help; issue 866; May 30 – June 5). 
Hiring guest workers imposes housing and other costs on employers that add between $3 and $3.50 an hour to base wage costs of $8.50. But Mitham learned that “employers consider the cost worthwhile compared with having to replace local workers who frequently disappear after just a few days’ or weeks’ worth of work.”
It’s a modern form of slavery that deserves to be stamped out. Foreign workers employed under this program live in legal limbo, outside normal employment standards and vulnerable to exploitation and abuse. 
The program not only puts downward pressure on the wages and working conditions of workers outside the affected industries, it opens the door to unfair competition by employers who try to squeeze their captive workforce past all normal limits.
In one instance last year, a group of guest farm workers found conditions so intolerable they went on strike and demanded to be sent home.

*Early this month, InTransit BC confirmed that 50 workers from Central and South America were working on the RAV line, claiming these construction labourers are uniquely skilled in the operation of “sophisticated” tunnel boring machines. 
The machines may be sophisticated but the pay and benefits are medieval. One Costa Rican confirmed to Global News that he is being paid only $1,000 a month plus room and board, well below minimum wage and a far cry from the $18 to $21.50 an hour claimed by InTransit.
Representatives of the B.C. Building Trades Council showed reporters the list of workers they could dispatch to the job, but they would be free to insist on decent wages, safe working conditions and other benefits that could eat into InTransit’s profit margin. And like most Canadians, they won’t work a six- or seven-day week.*

There’s no doubt Canada needs more workers to fill positions in agriculture, construction and other key industries. But they should be recruited through the usual immigration processes and granted the full protection of Canadian law while they are here.
Employers in sectors with labour shortages need to look in the mirror to find solutions and stop asking for subsidies in the form of guest worker programs and exemptions from employment standards.
If the real cost of a guest worker is $3 to $3.50 above minimum wage, then employers should offer that wage to workers already in Canada and see if that changes the equation. They should invest in training and other benefits to encourage worker loyalty. And they should seek to turn ethical employment practices into as powerful a consumer marketing tool as organic production.
Immigration has been and remains a critical contributor to our country’s well being. Most of us are here today because of it, but guest workers do not become nation builders. They, instead, are the most easily exploited labour force and that should be unacceptable to all of us.
Jim Sinclair ([email protected]) is president of the British Columbia Federation of Labour. 


Who owns InTransitBC, and why are they setting this kind of example?


----------



## matthewcs

It was meant to be a skytrain, funding was even lined up (about as well as it is now, but still) and then the NIMBY's came. People decided that having a elevated train running through "downtown" Port Moody would ruin the small town ambiance. You know, like a 6 lane highway doesn't already....I personally think its increadable short sighted, but o well. Now we wait and see if NIMBY's will keep Translink from building stations near schools because of "hoodlems". :hilarious 

It will be underground from Como lake/Clarke until St. Johns/Barnet (by the old strip club [hurrah small town ambiance!]). It's done like that because the grade is so steep.

I still don't understand why they want to run it along St Johns though. There's a CPR alignment like 200m North of it that runs the whole route.


----------



## officedweller

For the sake of completensss, here's the other side of that BIV head to head:

*Head to Head : Should Canada make greater use of immigrant guest workers to meet rising labour demand and increased labour shortages?

Jock Finlayson Yes

Foreign workers help tap boom timesand deepen pool of potential residents *

Like many other advanced industrial countries, Canada is about to come face to face with the economic and social challenges arising from an aging population and a sharp slowdown in labour force growth.

These hugely important demographic trends promise to change both the human resource practices and the marketing strategies of many businesses. At a more macro level, they will put unprecedented stress on pension and health-care systems and reshape the nation’s job market. 

The labour shortages being experienced by an array of industries – from construction and mining to oil and gas, health care and advanced technology – are but a foretaste of what lies ahead. Consider the following factoid: forecasts point to approximately one million job vacancies in B.C. over the next dozen years, yet only 650,000 young people will move through the province’s K-12 school system over the same period. Even if all of these K-12 graduates stay in B.C., the result will still be a shortfall of 350,000 prospective workers measured against the expected number of job openings.

Several options exist to lessen the impact of anticipated labour shortages, including extending the “normal” retirement age, encouraging more older workers to stay on the job, tapping into underused labour pools such as aboriginals and persuading more prime working-age Canadians living in other provinces to move to B.C. 

Immigration is another oft-cited strategy to address the looming labour supply crunch, but it is far from being a panacea. In recent years, immigrant landings in B.C. have hovered in the vicinity of 35,000 annually – a tiny inflow when compared with the 2.1 million people who make up the province’s workforce.

Moreover, not all immigrants end up employed. Under Canadian immigration policy, many enter as “family class” immigrants or as refugees. In fact, over the five-year period from 2000 to 2004, the “skilled worker” category accounted for only 48 per cent of the immigrants arriving in B.C., and even this figure significantly overstates the actual number of skilled newcomers since it includes the spouses and dependent children of the principal applicants. 

The figures cited above refer to permanent immigrants. But there is another category of foreign workers that should not be overlooked: those holding temporary work permits. 

Last year, about 19,000 foreigners entered B.C. on temporary work visas. Most were care-givers, nannies and farm workers, but modest numbers of academic researchers and other highly skilled individuals also come to B.C. with work permits.

In most cases, temporary foreign workers must have approved job offers from Canadian employers prior to entry. In determining whether to issue work visas, federal government agencies strive to ensure that the admission of foreign workers will not adversely affect job opportunities for Canadian citizens. 

As skill shortages grow more acute, government policy-makers should be looking to develop a more aggressive work visa program. Qualified foreign visa-holders can help to meet specific labour market shortages – especially short-term shortages.

For example, the current construction boom in B.C. and Alberta will undoubtedly wind down within a few years’ time. Domestic workers can’t fill all of the trades positions now required by the construction industry. But is it really wise to train many tens of thousands of Canadians to fill 100 per cent of these positions, given that that many construction jobs probably won’t exist once the current boom passes? Bringing in foreign workers for two or three years can be an efficient way to meet short-term labour demand.

Once they have acquired Canadian experience, foreign visa-holders can also be an attractive pool from which to select permanent immigrants. 

Canada’s immigration rules should be overhauled to make it easier for both temporary foreign workers with needed skills and foreign students graduating from Canadian education and training institutions to apply to become landed immigrants once they have spent some time in the country.

Jock Finlayson ([email protected]) is executive vice-president at the Business Council of B.C. (www.bcbc.com). Head to Head runs monthly.


----------



## Smelser

*DELCAN REPORT*



matthewcs said:


> It was meant to be a skytrain, funding was even lined up (about as well as it is now, but still) and then the NIMBY's came. People decided that having a elevated train running through "downtown" Port Moody would ruin the small town ambiance. You know, like a 6 lane highway doesn't already....I personally think its increadable short sighted, but o well. Now we wait and see if NIMBY's will keep Translink from building stations near schools because of "hoodlems". :hilarious


I don't think one can blame this decision on citizen protesters. Translink had Delcan, a well-known Canadian company, and some others do an analysis of alternatives and conventional LRT was chosen. 

http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/pd...s/northeast_sector/final_technical_report.pdf

It concluded that while Skytrain had the highest benefits it also had the biggest capital costs and the biggest urban visual impacts. LRT had somewhat lower benefits, but also lower costs, but higher enviromental impacts if a southeast approach to Coquitlam were chosen.

You mention a six-lane highway. Some 15 or so years ago when the Barnet highway was widened to four lanes, and into the 1990s as well, there was talk of a Port Moody bypass. It would link the Barnet highway in the west to the Barnet-Lougheed alignment at the east side of Port Moody along the waterfront-industrial area, and the entire route could eventually be upgraded to freeway status with the elimination of commercial accessess and intersections and their replacement with interchanges and a frontage road. What has happened to this proposal?

Finally, I have to admit that I have some sympathy for your dreaded Nimby's on at least one point, the hoodlums and general criminal element that are believed to hover around the Skytrain system. I think it's quite apparent that the Expo line at least has, for whatever reasons, become a conduit for thieves who have a major drug habit to support. Some years ago I recall a presentation by an ICBC official who stated that the higher premiums for the theft component of auto insurance in BC was entirely the result of much higher than average vehicle thefts within a distance of a mile or so around the Skytrain line. The rest of BC, and even the rest of Greater Vancouver, did not have vehicle theft rates that were at all out of the ordinary. 

I don't for one moment think you can blame this higher than average theft rate on the Skytrain technology per se. I would love to since I detest Skytrain, but that would be stretching an argrument too far. However, the way that system is operated in connection with fare collection, auto-pilot trains, etc. is conducive to moving theives and their loot around the metro area.


----------



## greg_christine

As noted in a previous post, the alternatives study for the Coquitlam/Evergreen Line can be found at the following link:

http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/pd...s/northeast_sector/final_technical_report.pdf

For the chosen corridor (Northwest Corridor via Barnet Highway), three technologies were in contention:

- Skytrain
- Light Rail
- Guided Rubber-Tired Trams (Translohr or Bombardier's GLT)

The construction costs and ridership were estimated as follows:

Peak Hourly Directional Demand (Table 7.1.1)
- Skytrain: 5900
- Light Rail: 2600
- GLT: 2200

Construction Cost (Table 7.2.1)
- Skytrain: $842.1 Million
- Light Rail: $701.1 Million
- GLT: $284.4 Million

Benefit to Cost Ratio (Table 8.1.1)
- Skytrain: 1.37
- Light Rail: 1.22
- GLT: 2.31

Part of the ridership advantage of Skytrain comes from passengers switching from West Coast Express trains. Much of the cost advantage of GLT comes from not having to build a tunnel to bypass a 12% grade on Clarke Road Hill.

It is interesting that light rail was chosen even though it didn't excel in any given area and it gave the lowest benefit to cost ratio.


----------



## Smelser

officedweller said:


> For the sake of completensss, here's the other side of that BIV head to head:
> 
> *Head to Head : Should Canada make greater use of immigrant guest workers to meet rising labour demand and increased labour shortages?
> 
> Jock Finlayson Yes
> 
> Foreign workers help tap boom timesand deepen pool of potential residents *


I didn't include Jock Finlayson's part of this debate because he stuck to generalities, he didn't really address the particular issue of the wages paid to these tunneling workers.


----------



## officedweller

Yeah, but with any polarized article, it's nice to have both perspectives.

WRT Canada Line construction - the City of Vancouver is removing (cutting down) street trees on Granville between Robson and Georgia in anticipation of station site excavation next month.


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## zonie

$1000/month + room & board?

that's not so bad. at least near minimum wage.


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## dchengg

zonie said:


> $1000/month + room & board?
> 
> that's not so bad. at least near minimum wage.


$1000/month and all those stuff may be allot for people from other countries, for example china. we may think its very little, but compared to them its allot.


----------



## alta-bc

*station length, only 40 meters?*

Hello everybody, interesting thread to read for a public transport enthusiast like myself.

Regarding the Canada Line, I was quite surprised to find out that the stations will only be 40 metres long. That would make them the shortest stations in the world for a major metro line in a large city. Of course there are some airport terminal to terminal transit systems and monorails for tourist attractions that may have stations that are shorter but they don't really count as a real public transit system.
I've been to the Canada line information centre in vancouver and their reasoning was "difficulty in utility relocations prevent them from being longer"
I don't see how this would be any different in other cities that have built and are currently building or expanding metro systems. Most cities of Vancouver size have systems with stations 80-120 metres long.
It seems capacity will be reached quickly and it will be an uncomfortable, overcrowded system. Lengthening the stations after it is built seems like it would be a logistical nightmare and extremely expensive.
Can someone lend their expertise on this? Am I missing something?

Thanks


----------



## mr.x

^ you've basically said what we're all thinking. it's a huge mistake to build such small platforms.


----------



## Plumber73

Is there any info on how long they expect the line to keep up to demands? Just curious.

If they can decide on another North - South route (Arbutus?), then it won't be so bad. I'd rather have two small capacity lines in different areas of the city than one heavy duty option.


----------



## mr.x

Plumber73 said:


> Is there any info on how long they expect the line to keep up to demands? Just curious.
> 
> If they can decide on another North - South route (Arbutus?), then it won't be so bad. I'd rather have two small capacity lines in different areas of the city than one heavy duty option.


Well, they're projecting 150,000 passengers per day by 2020 which is about the same as today's Expo Line ridership. The Expo Line is 28 km long with 20 stations. The Canada Line is 19 km long with 16 stations and is projected to have a ridership of 100,000 in 2010. Given that we have congestion with Expo SkyTrain's 80 metre platforms ....you can definetely imagine what kind of congestion there will be at the Canada Line's 40 metre platforms in not 2020, but in 2010.

The problem is that Arbutus will be streetcar, not real light rapil transit.....and it wouldn't help unless the streetcar crosses over the Fraser and serves Richmond as well. 

LOL, we may have to bring back the 98 B-Line in 2020. :bash: and we'll dig again along Cambie in 2020! poor poor merchants....



BTW, the Expo Line's projected 2010 daily ridership is 210,000. Quite a jump from 165,000 today. By 2020, its station platforms would too have to be extended.

The Canada Line trains are twice the length of the B-Line buses and nearly 3 times the capacity of these buses.


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## OettingerCroat

ok so wait the expo line is skytrain, what about the millenium line?

and the canada line is moslty undergroung, turning into elevated at its southernmost points, correct? and its not very high capacity?

sorry but ima complete foreigner and i think i'm pretty well-informed given that.


----------



## mr.x

Both the Expo and Millennium Line are SkyTrain. At Expo's Columbia Station, there are track switches which lead to the Millennium Line otherwise you would cross SkyBridge and head to Surrey. 

Regarding the Canada Line.......10 km of it (from Waterfront Station to Marine Drive Station) is underground while 7 km south of that is elevated and 2 km is at-grade at the airport. It has a maximum system capacity of 15,000 ppdph with a maximum frequency of 90 seconds in Vancouver and 180 secs at the Richmond and Airport spurs, with its maximum 50 metre platforms (expanded from 40 metres) allowing for a two-20 metre car and one-10 metre car train (20 metre cars have 160 passenger capacity.....10 metre cars have 80 passenger capacity. total is 400 passengers/train).

With both SkyTrain lines, the maximum system capacity is 25,000 pphpd with a maximum frequency of 90 secs, with 80 metre station platforms (btw, they can be expandable to 104 metres).













The problem with the Canada Line is its platforms. 40 metres, expandable to 50 metres, is way too short and thus does not allow for more cars other than 2-cars (40 metres) or 3-cars (50 metres).


----------



## mrtfreak

Forgive me if this is not feasible, its just an idea. I'm not too sure of Vancouver's geology or geography, but anyway, about the Arbutus line, or whatever someone else mentioned earlier... Would it have been better for the original RAV to have been built like this?










_Repeat: Not official map from BC Transit or the transit authority in Vancouver, its just an idea._

To distinguish the Richmond side, I just called it the Delta line. Could possibly connect to the Millenium Line at Arbutus. In effect, the line would be like what the Millenium did to the original network, doubling back in a way. I guess not feasible eh? But would it have helped reduce congestion on the Marine Drive - Waterfront section?


----------



## OettingerCroat

and evergreen line is a tram line right?


----------



## OettingerCroat

well guys this is a respectable transit network! ive always loved vancouver


----------



## OettingerCroat

ok i noe that you can drive near boundary bay to board a car ferry to sidney/victoria, which is guess is very practical becausemost people go to Vancouver Island with their cars anyway so they can go wherever they want. but is there any "high-speed" ferry ( :lol: ) that can be taken from the city waterfront to Victoria, more for regular commuters?


----------



## mr.x

mrtfreak said:


> Forgive me if this is not feasible, its just an idea. I'm not too sure of Vancouver's geology or geography, but anyway, about the Arbutus line, or whatever someone else mentioned earlier... Would it have been better for the original RAV to have been built like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Repeat: Not official map from BC Transit or the transit authority in Vancouver, its just an idea._
> 
> To distinguish the Richmond side, I just called it the Delta line. Could possibly connect to the Millenium Line at Arbutus. In effect, the line would be like what the Millenium did to the original network, doubling back in a way. I guess not feasible eh? But would it have helped reduce congestion on the Marine Drive - Waterfront section?



No, that wouldn't work well. It would be extremely expensive to build the line along Arbutus and along Cambie and you from YVR-Airport you can't turn north because you've got runways and the airport terminal.

I'm actually more concerned about the entire route from Waterfront to Richmond Centre (not concerned about YVR). Platforms are only 40 metres long (trains are 41 metres long) and with a peak 2009 frequency of 3 minutes in Vancouver and 6 minutes at Richmond (which is less frequent than the current 98 B-Line).


----------



## mr.x

OettingerCroat said:


> and evergreen line is a tram line right?


it's supposedly an LRT line, but it's gonna have more streetcar characteristics than rapid transit as it won't have traffic signal priority at several intersections. in other words, an expensive $800 million streetcar; big mistake. more like $1 billion though when inflation in labour and materials is included.

it's 11 km (2 km tunnel, 4 km elevated, 5 km at-grade) with 10 stations and a peak frequency of 6 minutes. it's a 20+ minute ride from terminus to terminus.


----------



## OettingerCroat

peak frequency means the minimum time between two trains pulling into the same station right?


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## officedweller

frequency = headway = time between trains

"peak" means "peak hours" = "rush hour"


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## OettingerCroat

^^ thx


----------



## OettingerCroat

mr.x said:


> it's supposedly an LRT line, but it's gonna have more streetcar characteristics than rapid transit as it won't have traffic signal priority at several intersections. in other words, an expensive $800 million streetcar; big mistake. more like $1 billion though when inflation in labour and materials is included.


thats alright, trams look much better on the street than light rail does.


----------



## mr.x

OettingerCroat said:


> thats alright, trams look much better on the street than light rail does.


we're paying $800 million for a 11 km streetcar?


----------



## Smelser

zonie said:


> $1000/month + room & board?
> 
> that's not so bad. at least near minimum wage.


I assume you're joking.

Given a 40 hour week this would amount to $6.25 per hour. The BC minimum wage is $8.00 per hour. 

More importantly, how can these be sophisticated, high skilled workers, and yet be earning poverty level wages? It is Canadian policy not to allow foreign workers to come to this country on temporary permits unless the wages offered are comparable to *the prevailing norms in Canada*. IOWs, if carpenters are now earning $30 per hour because of the construction boom, an employer will not be allowed to cut costs by bringing in workers from another country and paying them $20 per hour, let alone a wage that is below the minimum. That's to make sure that foreign workers are not being used to undermine Canadian wages and working conditions. 

So why is the RAV line contractor being allowed to pay these kinds of wages? Is this some kind of sweetheart arrangment designed to make the RAV line P3 numbers work out?


----------



## zonie

Smelser said:


> I assume you're joking.
> 
> Given a 40 hour week this would amount to $6.25 per hour. The BC minimum wage is $8.00 per hour.


Since when does your average minimum wage job provide room & board (maybe transportation too)? that's got to be worth a minimum of an additional $600/month in Vancouver, which would push it comortably above minimum wage.

Now exactly how the HRSDC (or BC Ministry of Labour) figured that is a reasonable wage for the job, I don't know, but (hopefully) they did due diligence. if anyone is really responsible for this, it should be them, not the contractor.


----------



## alta-bc

So the most stations will be 40 metres long, with some being 50 metres?

Another questions is, are the stations being built with lengthening in mind. For example, side platform stations can be relatively easily lengthened, unless the track curves or has an incline immediately before or after the station. The downtown stations look like center platforms. It is hard to tell, but do the tunnels taper closer together after leaving the station? The drawings show that the tracks stay parallel throughtout the downtown core which would be somewhat unusual, but that would definitely make expansion easier. If they end up tapering closer together before and after the stations like most systems in the world then that would make expansion almost impossible. False creek station seems to be a bit of an oddball with a taper throughout the station.

Anyways, my guess for the short stations is that this is a fixed price project, the government does not want another Fast Ferries at their hand and this would be one way to cut costs. There is no law stating what a platform length should be, but there are laws and obligations to make the system accessible for example, so they can't save money on NOT installing elevators or escalators. This is just purely my two cents on why they are doing it this way - I'd be very happy to hear other theories or maybe even facts!


----------



## OettingerCroat

mr.x said:


> we're paying $800 million for a 11 km streetcar?


hey all i said was that the vehicles themselves LOOK better  :lol:

:cheers2:


----------



## mr.x

^ lol. ok, good. 

not neccessarily though. i've seen LRT trains in Europe that have huge windows and sleek designs.


----------



## mr.x

alta-bc said:


> So the most stations will be 40 metres long, with some being 50 metres?
> 
> Another questions is, are the stations being built with lengthening in mind. For example, side platform stations can be relatively easily lengthened, unless the track curves or has an incline immediately before or after the station. The downtown stations look like center platforms. It is hard to tell, but do the tunnels taper closer together after leaving the station? The drawings show that the tracks stay parallel throughtout the downtown core which would be somewhat unusual, but that would definitely make expansion easier. If they end up tapering closer together before and after the stations like most systems in the world then that would make expansion almost impossible. False creek station seems to be a bit of an oddball with a taper throughout the station.
> 
> Anyways, my guess for the short stations is that this is a fixed price project, the government does not want another Fast Ferries at their hand and this would be one way to cut costs. There is no law stating what a platform length should be, but there are laws and obligations to make the system accessible for example, so they can't save money on NOT installing elevators or escalators. This is just purely my two cents on why they are doing it this way - I'd be very happy to hear other theories or maybe even facts!



ALL stations will be at least 40 metres in length, with several stations over 40 including some at 50 metres (such as Richmond Centre). All stations, if not already, have the capability to be immediately expandable to 50 metres.

At Waterfront Statio in downtown, it looks as if you could expand the platform double its size to 80 metres because it stays parallel, doesn't converge.

Yaletown Station may be challenging to expand its platform since i think (i bet) that the tunnel immediately dives down under False Creek. and it ascends after the station (guessing).

Vancouver City Centre Station looks like it can be expanded to at least 80 metres. There's a slight grade change throughout the platform and north of the platform.



Not necessarily. The gov't, unlike Fast Ferries, is not responsible for overruns. The private sector, responsible for design, building, and 35 years of operating is responsible for ALL overruns after the original $1.72 billion budget. The private sector is currently covering $300 milllion of overruns, bringing their share to $700 million - by far the most of the five funding sources.


----------



## officedweller

The short answer is that InTransitBC is building to the required specification they are contracted to build - not overbuilding, nor accommodating for future expansion beyond that specification if it would add costs to their bottom line. I think that the slopes of the tunnel near some of the Cambie Stations will prevent lengthy extensions of those platforms.


----------



## mr.x

officedweller said:


> The short answer is that InTransitBC is building to the required specification they are contracted to build - not overbuilding, nor accommodating for future expansion beyond that specification if it would add costs to their bottom line. I think that the slopes of the tunnel near some of the Cambie Stations will prevent lengthy extensions of those platforms.


these being Olympic Village Station and Broadway-City Hall Station.


----------



## Smelser

zonie said:


> Since when does your average minimum wage job provide room & board (maybe transportation too)? that's got to be worth a minimum of an additional $600/month in Vancouver, which would push it comortably above minimum wage.
> 
> Now exactly how the HRSDC (or BC Ministry of Labour) figured that is a reasonable wage for the job, I don't know, but (hopefully) they did due diligence. if anyone is really responsible for this, it should be them, not the contractor.


Under the foreign worker policy an employer is required to make sure that affordable accommodation is available. That can mean supplying such, or showing that there is plenty around that can be afforded by the workers in question. In any case, I don't think room and board should be considered part of the issue of comparable wage rates, since Canadian workers would not be eligible for paid room and board in any circumstance, save the far north. So leave that out and just compare the hourly wages, and on that basis it's obvious that these wages are lower than anything seen in Canada for skilled or even semi-skilled construction workers on engineering type work at any time in at least the last quarter century.

You say "due diligence". It looks to me like the P3 contractor is being given highly preferential treatment. Could it be that someone wants to avoid some embarassing demand for more money?


----------



## Smelser

mr.x said:


> Not necessarily. The gov't, unlike Fast Ferries, is not responsible for overruns. The private sector, responsible for design, building, and 35 years of operating is responsible for ALL overruns after the original $1.72 billion budget. The private sector is currently covering $300 milllion of overruns, bringing their share to $700 million - by far the most of the five funding sources.



Isn't $300 million the amount of the overrun on the Pacificats project? Of course, that would be a lower percentage on a much larger project, but that's just the first overrun.

Also, isn't the contractor guaranteed a certain ridership, and if that doesn't materialize, the taxpayer pays the fares of those phantom passengers to the private party?


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## mr.x

the line is projected to have 100,000 passengers per day. if there's a shortfall, Translink is responsible for 90% and the private sector, 10%.


----------



## zonie

Smelser said:


> Under the foreign worker policy an employer is required to make sure that affordable accommodation is available. That can mean supplying such, or showing that there is plenty around that can be afforded by the workers in question. In any case, I don't think room and board should be considered part of the issue of comparable wage rates, since Canadian workers would not be eligible for paid room and board in any circumstance, save the far north. So leave that out and just compare the hourly wages, and on that basis it's obvious that these wages are lower than anything seen in Canada for skilled or even semi-skilled construction workers on engineering type work at any time in at least the last quarter century.
> 
> You say "due diligence". It looks to me like the P3 contractor is being given highly preferential treatment. Could it be that someone wants to avoid some embarassing demand for more money?


Yes, obviously, wages seem low for the job (below minimum? that's debatable). Is some hanky panky going on? We can't tell for sure. So far the Canada Line project has passed all its reviews and audits with flying colours. If there actually are sordid details to discover, the auditor general's final audit should dig them up.


----------



## Smelser

mr.x said:


> the line is projected to have 100,000 passengers per day. if there's a shortfall, Translink is responsible for 90% and the private sector, 10%.


Right. Nearly the entire risk in terms of eventual revenue is being borne, even according to the agreement, by the taxpayer. All but the last ten percent. 

As for the risk of unprecedented construction cost overruns, if for example a continuing boom in China or more hurricane disasters in America were to push up materials prices even further, I haven't read the agreement and don't plan to. 

However, as a matter of ordinary common sense, the private partner is not going to keep on digging tunnels regardless. At some point, with enough negative developments on the cost front, they will stop work until the terms are changed, and have their lawyers dispose of whatever paper penalties may be coming their way. 

But what are the governments going to do? Sit there with a partly finished RAV line that's cost them over a billion dollars and is still not able to carry any passengers with the Olympics due to come to town? Who would be in the weaker bargaining position? Clearly it's the public sector.


----------



## mr.x

Smelser said:


> Right. Nearly the entire risk in terms of eventual revenue is being borne, even according to the agreement, by the taxpayer. All but the last ten percent.
> 
> As for the risk of unprecedented construction cost overruns, if for example a continuing boom in China or more hurricane disasters in America were to push up materials prices even further, I haven't read the agreement and don't plan to.
> 
> However, as a matter of ordinary common sense, the private partner is not going to keep on digging tunnels regardless. At some point, with enough negative developments on the cost front, they will stop work until the terms are changed, and have their lawyers dispose of whatever paper penalties may be coming their way.
> 
> But what are the governments going to do? Sit there with a partly finished RAV line that's cost them over a billion dollars and is still not able to carry any passengers with the Olympics due to come to town? Who would be in the weaker bargaining position? Clearly it's the public sector.


The taxpayer is at risk for 90% of ridership because Translink insisted that they have full control of the ticket fares. InTransitBC gets the remaining 10% for risks that may affect ridership, such as train performance, accidents, etc.

It was a mistake to go with P3 to start with.


----------



## OettingerCroat

alta-bc said:


> So the most stations will be 40 metres long, with some being 50 metres?
> 
> Another questions is, are the stations being built with lengthening in mind. For example, side platform stations can be relatively easily lengthened, unless the track curves or has an incline immediately before or after the station. The downtown stations look like center platforms. It is hard to tell, but do the tunnels taper closer together after leaving the station? The drawings show that the tracks stay parallel throughtout the downtown core which would be somewhat unusual, but that would definitely make expansion easier. If they end up tapering closer together before and after the stations like most systems in the world then that would make expansion almost impossible. False creek station seems to be a bit of an oddball with a taper throughout the station.
> 
> Anyways, my guess for the short stations is that this is a fixed price project, the government does not want another Fast Ferries at their hand and this would be one way to cut costs. There is no law stating what a platform length should be, but there are laws and obligations to make the system accessible for example, so they can't save money on NOT installing elevators or escalators. This is just purely my two cents on why they are doing it this way - I'd be very happy to hear other theories or maybe even facts!



whats "fast ferries"?

and can anyone please answer my question from a few pages ago: are there any ferries that connect Victoria with Vancouver that are faster than the car ferries that leave from tsawwassen? any "commuter" ferries that leave victoria harbour and arrive right on the burrard inlet waterfront? or are the car ferries the only way to get to victoria? to me they seemed somewhat slow/lethargic, but a GREAT way to see the strait of Georgia.


----------



## alta-bc

The fast ferry project was a government fiasco with massive cost overuns that helped bring the previous provincial government (NDP, New Democratic Party) to its knees.

here is a link to the project in wikipedia, including pictures of the ferries: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glen_Clark

The current government, The Liberals, would not want the same thing to happen to them with the Canada Line project


----------



## alta-bc

sorry, that link was to the premier at the time of the fast ferry fiasco, here is the actual link to the scandal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Ferry_Scandal


----------



## mr.x

OettingerCroat said:


> and can anyone please answer my question from a few pages ago: are there any ferries that connect Victoria with Vancouver that are faster than the car ferries that leave from tsawwassen? any "commuter" ferries that leave victoria harbour and arrive right on the burrard inlet waterfront? or are the car ferries the only way to get to victoria? to me they seemed somewhat slow/lethargic, but a GREAT way to see the strait of Georgia.


No, there have been no such ferries. However, there was an high-speed passenger ferry service from Downtown Vancouver to Nanaimo called Harbour Lynx......though a success, it was unable to pay its bank loans and the service went overboard earlier this year.

The only way of getting to Victoria directly is the BC Ferries Tsawassen-Swartz Bay route (2 hours). Upon arriving at Swartz Bay, there's still a 30 minute drive. The fleet's largest ferries run on this route.


The Washington Group, the company that built the Fast Cat Ferries and also bought them for $19 million later on, has plans to use the ferries (now idling in North Vancouver) for a Vancouver-Victoria from dock facilities near Hastings Park in Vancouver.


----------



## OettingerCroat

alta-bc said:


> sorry, that link was to the premier at the time of the fast ferry fiasco, here is the actual link to the scandal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Ferry_Scandal


yah i just read it, it was doomed from the start. the fact that the engines had to operate at 90% power to CRUISE is bad enough. and everyone knows catamarans THAT fast will absolutely unsettle the water behind them. i could go on and on, thats pretty fuckin sad.

thank you for the responces, all of you!!! :colgate:

and sir X, i knew about how you stil have to drive to get to victoria once u unload fromt he ferry; is the town you actually pull into called Sidney? And i liked the ride, rural and green.


----------



## renthefinn

^^ (I mean only 2 of these ^ I hate the way they animate them now) I think there used to be service between downtown Vic and Van too on the Clipper can't remember the service, but it died fairly shortly. There also used to be CP service between both downtowns before the swartz bay Tswassen (sp?) route got started.


----------



## mr.x

OettingerCroat said:


> yah i just read it, it was doomed from the start. the fact that the engines had to operate at 90% power to CRUISE is bad enough. and everyone knows catamarans THAT fast will absolutely unsettle the water behind them. i could go on and on, thats pretty fuckin sad.
> 
> thank you for the responces, all of you!!! :colgate:
> 
> and sir X, i knew about how you stil have to drive to get to victoria once u unload fromt he ferry; is the town you actually pull into called Sidney? And i liked the ride, rural and green.


No, Sidney is 5 km south of the Swartz Bay terminal.


----------



## OettingerCroat

mr.x said:


> No, Sidney is 5 km south of the Swartz Bay terminal.


ok cool


----------



## dchengg

back to the station platforms, if they have platforms 40metre eachside, and what if during rush hours, and many people take the trains, how exactly will they fit enough people in there without touching shoulder to shoulder?! because you should expect the world to be riding the transit by 2010...

also another question,
will there be ticket gates before entering the station? or will it be just like the regular skytrain entrances?!


----------



## mr.x

dchengg said:


> back to the station platforms, if they have platforms 40metre eachside, and what if during rush hours, and many people take the trains, how exactly will they fit enough people in there without touching shoulder to shoulder?! because you should expect the world to be riding the transit by 2010...
> 
> also another question,
> will there be ticket gates before entering the station? or will it be just like the regular skytrain entrances?!


i have no idea how they're gonna solve crowding issues at the platforms. it's gonna be a big time problem when the line opens in 2009, especially at Waterfront, Vancouver City Centre, Broadway-City Hall, Bridgeport, Aberdeen, Lansdowne, Richmond Centre and Oakridge. 40 metres is the size of two 98 B-Line buses.

there won't be fare gates at the stations. ticketing is the honour system; same as SkyTrain. 80 additional transit police officers will be hired in 2009 just for the Canada Line.


----------



## Smelser

alta-bc said:


> sorry, that link was to the premier at the time of the fast ferry fiasco, here is the actual link to the scandal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Ferry_Scandal


I can see you're quite the expert on BC politics!

I read the article on the fast ferries and it contians some material I must confess I really hadn't been aware of. For example:

" - International fast ferry standards do not permit passengers to remain on the car deck during sailings. This meant that all passengers had to move up to the passenger deck, an unwelcome change for some local residents who were used to sleeping the entire 95 minute voyage in their cars. 
- The air on vehicle decks became uncomfortably warm, either from the heat of the vessel engines or lack of air circulation. This made some people wary of bringing pets aboard the FastCats; however, the ferries had kennels with improved air circulation at the bow and stern of the vehicle decks. 
- There was little outside deck space for passengers. The existing ferries had large decks, and it was common for passengers to spend the entire sailing circling the decks of the ship or sunbathing on the lifejacket containers. 
- The ships had a more modern, European-style interior which was perceived by passengers as being cramped compared to the existing ferries."

These kinds of consumer complaints will plague all manner of projects, for example, any skyscraper built in the moderne or internationalist style. People want to know why you can't at least use some paint on the concrete, or some brick siding around the windows. As for the fast ferries, another complaint was that there were no french fries available because deep fryers were excluded as too heavy for the design! 

The article is a bit incomplete. It alludes to the issue of trucking, but doesn't really spell it out that opposition from the trucking industry was the main reason the project got a bad press and became a perceptual and public relations problem. In addition, the BC Ferry and Marine Workers Union joined other critics in attacking the project as part of their negotiation strategy. Given the New Democratic Party's association with orgranized labour generally (the ferry and marine workers are not an actual affiliate or contributor) this was seen by press and pundits as particularly damaging, again viewing everything from a purely political and electoral standpoint.

I was just wondering if you know whether or not the Wikipedia article may have been written by the same person, John Hammersmark, who prepared the private website the article is linked to?


----------



## zonie

If it's incomplete, be a good netizen and edit it there (dead easy to do - click "Edit") as well as typing it here. Stick to facts though.


----------



## OettingerCroat

Smelser said:


> I can see you're quite the expert on BC politics!
> 
> I read the article on the fast ferries and it contians some material I must confess I really hadn't been aware of. For example:
> 
> " - International fast ferry standards do not permit passengers to remain on the car deck during sailings. This meant that all passengers had to move up to the passenger deck, an unwelcome change for some local residents who were used to sleeping the entire 95 minute voyage in their cars.
> - The air on vehicle decks became uncomfortably warm, either from the heat of the vessel engines or lack of air circulation. This made some people wary of bringing pets aboard the FastCats; however, the ferries had kennels with improved air circulation at the bow and stern of the vehicle decks.
> - There was little outside deck space for passengers. The existing ferries had large decks, and it was common for passengers to spend the entire sailing circling the decks of the ship or sunbathing on the lifejacket containers.
> - The ships had a more modern, European-style interior which was perceived by passengers as being cramped compared to the existing ferries."
> 
> These kinds of consumer complaints will plague all manner of projects, for example, any skyscraper built in the moderne or internationalist style. People want to know why you can't at least use some paint on the concrete, or some brick siding around the windows. As for the fast ferries, another complaint was that there were no french fries available because deep fryers were excluded as too heavy for the design!
> 
> The article is a bit incomplete. It alludes to the issue of trucking, but doesn't really spell it out that opposition from the trucking industry was the main reason the project got a bad press and became a perceptual and public relations problem. In addition, the BC Ferry and Marine Workers Union joined other critics in attacking the project as part of their negotiation strategy. Given the New Democratic Party's association with orgranized labour generally (the ferry and marine workers are not an actual affiliate or contributor) this was seen by press and pundits as particularly damaging, again viewing everything from a purely political and electoral standpoint.
> 
> I was just wondering if you know whether or not the Wikipedia article may have been written by the same person, John Hammersmark, who prepared the private website the article is linked to?


hehe u say ur from maple rigde, one of my better friends is from maple ridge :lol:


----------



## alta-bc

Ok, here are some unusual questions about skytrain:

1. What causes the 3 tone sound that the MKI trains make when they accelerate and decelerate? And being powered by LIMs, motors without moving parts, why are they so noisy? I've been on many metro system around the world and the MKI trains are definitley the noisiest during accelaration and decelaration. 

2. During construction of the Millenium Line, a short section of the Expo line guideway was strengthened to accomodate the heavier MKII trains. This section was between Main street and the Home Depot. The horizontal beams had some additional croncrete added to them right where it joins the column. Why was only such a short stretch strengthened? Was that particular stretch actually weaker than the rest of the guideway?

3. MKII trains have air conditioning, yet the windows are openable. Why is that? (I noticed that they have now put stickers on the windows saying to only open them up in emergencies.) 

Thanks


----------



## dchengg

alta-bc said:


> Ok, here are some unusual questions about skytrain:
> 
> 1. What causes the 3 tone sound that the MKI trains make when they accelerate and decelerate? And being powered by LIMs, motors without moving parts, why are they so noisy? I've been on many metro system around the world and the MKI trains are definitley the noisiest during accelaration and decelaration.
> 
> 2. During construction of the Millenium Line, a short section of the Expo line guideway was strengthened to accomodate the heavier MKII trains. This section was between Main street and the Home Depot. The horizontal beams had some additional croncrete added to them right where it joins the column. Why was only such a short stretch strengthened? Was that particular stretch actually weaker than the rest of the guideway?
> 
> 3. MKII trains have air conditioning, yet the windows are openable. Why is that? (I noticed that they have now put stickers on the windows saying to only open them up in emergencies.)
> 
> Thanks



im only a 14yearold so i may not answer it right

1. the 3 tone sound maybe just another tape recorded tone

2. they strengthed that part maybe is beacuse there are two turns there that are a little tilted

3. i think you have basically answered it yourself, sometimes its for emergency ventalation? just incase of fire..


----------



## OettingerCroat

alta-bc said:


> 3. MKII trains have air conditioning, yet the windows are openable. Why is that? (I noticed that they have now put stickers on the windows saying to only open them up in emergencies.)


yes its for emergencies.

you may remember the horrible day in November 2000 in Karpun, Austria, when a disaster happened to a funicular railway. heaters not legal for use on vehicles were installed to heat the passenger compartment, then steaming hot condensation trickled down from the head of the train (funiculars are all sloped remember, so gravity can affect a whole bunch of crap) and set the hydraulic fluid, used to open one of the doors, on fire, in the empty drivers cabin at the bottom of the train.

the loss in hydraulic pressure halted ALL doors from opening. so nearly 180 passengers were stuck on the train as the doors couldnt open. at this point their only way of escape was by breaking the BREAK-PROOF plexiglass windows. one brave man towards the bottom of the train took his ski pole and shattered a large window, enabling the ppl at the bottom of the train to get out safely, and they ran towards the bottom end of the tunnel. however, there were only 12 people that made it out this way.

finally the driver was able to get the doors to manually be opened, and the remaining 150+ passengers poured into the tunnel. but as the fire had by now completely blocked off exit towards the bottom, the passengers stuck in the upper part of the train could only travel UP the tunnel. however, the tunnel was acting like a chimney now, sucking up all the oxygen from the bottom of the tunnel and sending the extremely toxic and fatal fumes upwards, where all the passengers were making their way up to the end of the tunnel. out of the 150+ passengers who fled upwards, they all choked to death on the toxic fumes. People at the station at the top of the tunnel died too. the fire was now raging wildly, at temperatures over 1000 degrees, and they completely neutralized the remains of the victims and what was left of the train. in total 155 people perished, just like that.

so if you're curious why air conditioned cars have opening windows, it is for safety reasons.


----------



## officedweller

alta-bc said:


> Ok, here are some unusual questions about skytrain:
> 
> 1. What causes the 3 tone sound that the MKI trains make when they accelerate and decelerate? And being powered by LIMs, motors without moving parts, why are they so noisy? I've been on many metro system around the world and the MKI trains are definitley the noisiest during accelaration and decelaration.
> 
> 2. During construction of the Millenium Line, a short section of the Expo line guideway was strengthened to accomodate the heavier MKII trains. This section was between Main street and the Home Depot. The horizontal beams had some additional croncrete added to them right where it joins the column. Why was only such a short stretch strengthened? Was that particular stretch actually weaker than the rest of the guideway?
> 
> 3. MKII trains have air conditioning, yet the windows are openable. Why is that? (I noticed that they have now put stickers on the windows saying to only open them up in emergencies.)
> 
> Thanks


The sound comes from the power conversion unit in the MKIs - the MKIIs use a different model of power converter, so no sound.

The part of the elevated guideway that needed strengthening was the "demonstration line" built before the rest of the line was built.

The air conditioning in the MKII cars only takes the temperature down to ambient temperature - the temperature outside the trains - so you can open the windows without straining the air conditioning system.


----------



## Xusein

The skytrain has some of the nicest trains in North America...

Looks like NYC's JFK airport Airtrain.


----------



## mrtfreak

^ That's cause the NY AirTrain uses the Advanced Rapid Transit system, which is the same as Vancouver's SkyTrain, and Bombardier was contracted to build the cars. Those are the MKII cars, as are the KL Putraline trains. Only, the NY cars come in single unarticulated cars.

KL's Putraline (Kelana Jaya line):








*Line is now run by RAPIDkl and logo has been changed.


----------



## mr.x

Vancouver's Mark II SkyTrain cars


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## OettingerCroat

^^ those are very very very good looking trains. 9.5/10 in my opinion. if they just had a 3rd, intermediate coach, they'd be an untouchable 10/10. the colors, the shape, the windows, everything is perfect, they just need to be a wee bit longer.


----------



## alta-bc

> The air conditioning in the MKII cars only takes the temperature down to ambient temperature - the temperature outside the trains - so you can open the windows without straining the air conditioning system.


hmmmm.... I've been on MKII trains on a hot day, it seemed alot cooler inside the trains than outside. Most trains on other systems that have air conditioning don't have openable windows, like NY's MKII cars or Toronto's subway. Plus, the windows on Vancouver's MKII trains aren't large enough to escape out of in case of fire. Also, opening a window during a fire on a train may not help, it may make it even worse by allowing more oxygen in.

Anyways, I don't mean to slag the skytrain, it's just an observation. I actually really like the MKII cars, they are such a HUGE improvement over the MKI trains.


----------



## OettingerCroat

ok theres one thing im confused about.

heres a map of the area around Broadway and WCD station:










the millenium line was extended to the vancouver community college this january. it is locaed by the little dot on the map.

red is broadway, where a possible future sky train alignment will go towards arbutus, at least according to wikipedia

green is the completed millenium line. dashed green was work i saw being done on google earth.

the lower green, right above broadway, is where this possible future alignment will be.

if there is work being done/was done done NORTH of broadway, how do they expect to suddenly align it with broadway from VCC station? first of all, unless more work was dune since this satellite picture was taken, the "VCC station" is actually almost half a kilometer away from the main college entrance!!! can someone just explain this to me? i dont see how its possible for the train to go under broadway if the first station is so far north.


----------



## officedweller

alta-bc said:


> hmmmm.... I've been on MKII trains on a hot day, it seemed alot cooler inside the trains than outside. Most trains on other systems that have air conditioning don't have openable windows, like NY's MKII cars or Toronto's subway.


That's what I read either in the Buzzer or in the newspaper one time - can't recall where exactly. It could have been one of those complaint columns where reader write in complaining about others - but here the response was that you could open the windows without harming the air conditioning.


----------



## alta-bc

> the millenium line was extended to the vancouver community college this january. it is located by the little dot on the map.


It is not actually located by the little dot. The station is now completed and it is along the northern green dotted line.



> red is broadway, where a possible future sky train alignment will go towards arbutus, at least according to wikipedia


Yes, the possible future extension will be along broadway. The northern green dotted line in your picture is where Millenium Line currently ends and it will turn south again and rejoin broadway. The next station would be Main St. and Broadway.



> green is the completed millenium line. dashed green was work i saw being done on google earth.


The dashed green line along broadway: Yes, work is being done there right now but that is for sewer replacement only.



> the lower green, right above broadway, is where this possible future alignment will be.


The Millenium line would rejoin broadway roughly where all the green question marks are.


Here is a link to the City of Vancouver website regarding possible extension options. (somewhat old info, but still valid and very interesting) http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/engsvcs/transport/rto/millennium_extension.htm

Btw. Why the strong interest in Vancouver transit? Just curious...


----------



## officedweller

Read this fact sheet from the City of Vancouver - this shows where the line will probably go (although the City of Vancouver will not control the route location). The line was diverted north to the False Creek Flats to serve future high tech office space in the area. 

http://vancouver.ca/engsvcs/transport/rto/pdf/infosheet1.pdf


----------



## OettingerCroat

alta-bc said:


> Btw. Why the strong interest in Vancouver transit? Just curious...


i love the city, i know the city, and i love transportation infrastructure. that pretty much sums it up 

and thanks for the info, but those pages are pretty old


----------



## OettingerCroat

officedweller said:


> Read this fact sheet from the City of Vancouver - this shows where the line will probably go (although the City of Vancouver will not control the route location). The line was diverted north to the False Creek Flats to serve future high tech office space in the area.
> 
> http://vancouver.ca/engsvcs/transport/rto/pdf/infosheet1.pdf


this was helpful, thx


----------



## cees

dont know if its that special, but i live in almere, a town near to amsterdam holland. and here we have seperate bussinglanes and cycle roads all over the town. its a new age very suburban style living town wich is 30 years old or so. and everything is new and they decided to seperate all types of infrastructure completely, i think its pretty impressive, were ever you live in almere it is max 500 meter to the next bus station and all of them on the seperate bussinglanesystem also the cycling roads are nearly everywhere, i've got no statistics but maybe another dutch forumer does. further is all dutch public transport very well organized, not a real big metro system but for that there's to much 'sprawl' in holland, i think we've got pretty much trainstations per citicen in holland. well thats what i have to say maybe some dutch forummer can show here some pictures.


----------



## dchengg

OettingerCroat said:


> ^^ those are very very very good looking trains. 9.5/10 in my opinion. if they just had a 3rd, intermediate coach, they'd be an untouchable 10/10. the colors, the shape, the windows, everything is perfect, they just need to be a wee bit longer.


sometimes during rush hours, they connect two of those to make one long one~~


----------



## mr.x

dchengg said:


> sometimes during rush hours, they connect two of those to make one long one~~


what he actually means is a third car in the middle of the existing two-car trains.


----------



## OettingerCroat

mr.x said:


> what he actually means is a third car in the middle of the existing two-car trains.


right. a three-section train. three sections would give it a more massive, "important", "major league" feel.


----------



## mr.x

OettingerCroat said:


> right. a three-section train. three sections would give it a more massive, "important", "major league" feel.


Three-car trains are possible with extended Canada Line platforms (from 40 metres to 50 metres). Car A: 20 metres; Car C: 10 metres; Car B: 20 metres


----------



## OettingerCroat

does anyone have a good profile, "long-ways" picture of the MkII trains?


----------



## mr.x




----------



## OettingerCroat

i meant like literally 90 degrees "from the side" but this is a great pic anyways kay: thx!!!


----------



## mr.x




----------



## Smelser

zonie said:


> If it's incomplete, be a good netizen and edit it there (dead easy to do - click "Edit") as well as typing it here. Stick to facts though.



Stick to facts? Who decides what is fact and what is debatable?


----------



## zonie

Just follow your heart then.


----------



## Smelser

Here is a second article on the extraordinarily low wages being paid to some foreign workers on the RAV or Canada line tunnelling project. This is from the Globe and Mail of July 1st.

Foreign workers say wages are less than $3.50 an hour
PETER KENNEDY 

VANCOUVER -- Foreign workers hired to dig tunnels at a $2-billion infrastructure project in Vancouver have signed up to join a union, after allegations they are being paid as little as $3.50 an hour by their employer.

The move was welcomed by trade union officials who allege that the group of 40 Latin American construction workers are being exploited by a consortium that is building the Canada Line rapid transit project.

"These workers have shown great solidarity and strength of character to stand up to their employer and demand equal rights," said Wayne Peppard, executive director of the B.C. and Yukon Territory Building and Construction Trades Council, or BYTC.

Mr. Peppard said the workers, who come from Costa Rica, Colombia and Ecuador, are employees of SELI Canada Inc., a subsidiary of an Italian tunnel-boring firm, and have been working alongside Canadians who are being paid more than $20 an hour.

"It is a disgrace that any workers in this country could be allowed to be exploited like these workers have been," said Mark Olsen, a business manager with the Labourers Construction and Specialized Workers union Local 1611.

He said the workers, who are living in a hotel in East Vancouver, have voted to certify Local 1611 as their bargaining agent in future contract negotiations with the employer. That move was backed yesterday by the B.C. Labour Relations Board.

The decision appears to be setback for a partnership that is funding the Canada Line, a 19-kilometre light rapid transit project being built to connect downtown Vancouver with the suburb of Richmond and the Vancouver Airport.

Its public-sector financiers include the federal and B.C. governments, the Greater Vancouver Transit Authority and the Vancouver Airport Authority. They have teamed up with a group of private-sector financiers, which include a subsidiary of Montreal-based SNC Lavalin, and operate under the umbrella title InTransitBC.

Steve Crombie, a spokesman for InTransitBC, denied that the foreign workers are being exploited. "I don't know why they promote this idea because it is false," he said. "They [the unions] obviously have an agenda."

Mr. Crombie said allegations of exploitation may stem from the fact the 14 trade unions that represent B.C. construction-sector workers did not get the right to supply all of the labour required for the Canada Line project.

"We decided to go a different route and put the various components out for competitive bids," he said.

After SELI was hired to do part of the tunnel-boring work, it brought in a team of about 40 foreign workers who are skilled in that area of construction and are now at the centre of allegations that they are being exploited.

Mr. Crombie said those workers are getting take-home pay of $20,000 (U.S.) a year. Also included in the package is free accommodation, food and ground transportation. They also get two free airline tickets a year to visit their families, he said.

"If you add it all up, it sounds pretty reasonable,'' he said.

However, a spokesman for the BCYT said the decision by the workers to join a union indicates they are not happy with their pay. Mr. Peppard said he has pay stubs showing that some of the workers are being paid only $1,148 (Canadian) a month. 

Even if some are getting $20,000 (U.S.) a year, it still works out to less than $8 (Canadian) an hour, the minimum wage in B.C. "Evidence presented showed they were working for just $3.47 an hour, six days, at a minimum of 60 hours per week," Mr. Peppard said.

Yesterday, the BCYT was calling on Ottawa to launch an inquiry to look at the process that permits foreign residents to work at infrastructure projects in Canada and to ensure that it is being properly monitored.

B.C. Ministry of Labour spokesman Graham Currie said he is aware of the allegations that the foreign workers were being paid less than $5 an hour. He said the province's Employment Standards Branch has received complaints from workers involved in the Canada Line construction. 

"I am unaware of the nature of the complaints,'' he said.


----------



## newyorkrunaway1

i just love Vancouver, they have some of the best urban transportation i have ever seen!!!

simply amazing


----------



## Æsahættr

lovin' it


----------



## spongeg

mr.x said:


> it's supposedly an LRT line, but it's gonna have more streetcar characteristics than rapid transit as it won't have traffic signal priority at several intersections. in other words, an expensive $800 million streetcar; big mistake.  more like $1 billion though when inflation in labour and materials is included.
> 
> it's 11 km (2 km tunnel, 4 km elevated, 5 km at-grade) with 10 stations and a peak frequency of 6 minutes. it's a 20+ minute ride from terminus to terminus.


the evergreen line is suppossed to be like Portlands LRT trains


----------



## mr.x

spongeg said:


> the evergreen line is suppossed to be like Portlands LRT trains


All of the intersection's Portland's LRT runs through, the train has signal priority. Ours doesn't at several intersections.


----------



## spongeg

some pics i took a couple weeks ago at the airport

and its progress


----------



## spongeg

i don't see a problem with the platform lengths

most of the platforms now are too long most people know where to bunch up


----------



## mr.x

spongeg said:


> i don't see a problem with the platform lengths
> 
> most of the platforms now are too long most people know where to bunch up


in just a few years, the entire 80 metre SkyTrain platform will be filled with 4-car Mark II trains and 6-car Mark I trains. How are you going to add more cars onto the Canada Line with the platforms barely being able to handle 2-car trains?


----------



## spongeg

well not to sound awful but i will just be driving :lol:


----------



## dchengg

spongeg said:


> i don't see a problem with the platform lengths
> 
> most of the platforms now are too long most people know where to bunch up



it would be embarrassing for vancouver and canada to show the world if they cant fit the world on those platforms. 

if there are crowdings, wouldnt there be a higher chance of people being pushed into the tracks?


----------



## Smelser

*A BIT MORE ON RAV LINE WAGES*



Smelser said:


> Here is a second article on the extraordinarily low wages being paid to some foreign workers on the RAV or Canada line tunnelling project. This is from the Globe and Mail of July 1st.
> 
> Foreign workers say wages are less than $3.50 an hour
> PETER KENNEDY
> 
> VANCOUVER -- Foreign workers hired to dig tunnels at a $2-billion infrastructure project in Vancouver have signed up to join a union, after allegations they are being paid as little as $3.50 an hour by their employer.
> 
> ...
> 
> Steve Crombie, a spokesman for InTransitBC, denied that the foreign workers are being exploited. "I don't know why they promote this idea because it is false," he said. "They [the unions] obviously have an agenda."
> 
> ...
> 
> Mr. Crombie said those workers are getting take-home pay of $20,000 (U.S.) a year. Also included in the package is free accommodation, food and ground transportation. They also get two free airline tickets a year to visit their families, he said.
> 
> "If you add it all up, it sounds pretty reasonable,'' he said.


This morning on CBC Radio 1 in Vancouver Rick Cluff interviewed Wayne Peppard and Steve Crombie. Peppard basically repeated the claims made in the Globe article.

Crombie, on the other hand, tended to improve on his story. Now he says that some workers, including one in his early twenties who has been with the company for three years, is making $30,000 a year not including overtime, as opposed to the $20,000 figure in the Globe story of last week. And the young fella is also getting food, accommodation and travel home.


----------



## mr.x

dchengg said:


> it would be embarrassing for vancouver and canada to show the world if they cant fit the world on those platforms.
> 
> if there are crowdings, wouldnt there be a higher chance of people being pushed into the tracks?


Crowding on Hong Kong's MTR is 10x worst than SkyTrain's problems, and yet they only installed the platform doors only a few years ago.


----------



## officedweller

The greatest crowding will be at Bridgeport when the coach buses empty out. Every second train will be from YVR - so hopefully the trains from YVR won't be crowded during rush hours, and will provide a nearly empty train every second train.


----------



## mr.x

officedweller said:


> The greatest crowding will be at Bridgeport when the coach buses empty out. Every second train will be from YVR - so hopefully the trains from YVR won't be crowded during rush hours, and will provide a nearly empty train every second train.


Other stations that will also see crowding issues:

- Richmond Centre
- Lansdowne
- Aberdeen
- Bridgeport
- YVR-Terminus
- Oakridge-41st
- Broadway-City Hall (big issues!!!!!!!)
- Vancouver City Centre
- Waterfront


----------



## officedweller

I see the biggest problems at the feeder bus station termini (i.e. everyone get out!) - and Bridgeport probably see the most number of routes coming in at the same time. 

Richmond City Centre and Marine Drive (both also bus route termini) may also see a lot of crowding, but not Lansdowne or Aberdeen. 

Oakridge - not so much - 41st is busy, but it's not the same as 4 buses disgorging at the same time. 

Broadway City Hall - probably not until the M-Line is extended (the east west catchment area for downtown transfers may be quite small (i.e. from Granville to Commercial - close to commerial, you'd wait for Skytrain - close to Granville, you'd transfer to a frequent regular bus instead of riding further east to Cambie.) Although the B-Line is busy it still is one route and wouldn't be the same as numerous routes disgorging at the same time. 

Waterfront & Vancouver City Centre - definitely during big downtown events (fireworks, sporting events), but on a regular basis, not too sure.


----------



## dchengg

mr.x said:


> Crowding on Hong Kong's MTR is 10x worst than SkyTrain's problems, and yet they only installed the platform doors only a few years ago.



you should take a look at hongkong mtr platforms! theyre so cool! the platforms are like HUGE! and there are even shops etc you cant really compare hk with vancouver...


----------



## mr.x

dchengg said:


> you should take a look at hongkong mtr platforms! theyre so cool! the platforms are like HUGE! and there are even shops etc you cant really compare hk with vancouver...


Hong Kong has a population of more than 6 million; Vancouver has 2.2 million. The MTR's ridership is over 1.6 million daily. Vancouver's ridership is 230,000 daily (obviously, less populated and less dense). You can't really compare either.


----------



## mr.x

Plumber73 said:


> Yea. I don't believe it will be another Millenium line (in the usage sense) - I think it will take off quickly in popularity. I see perhaps only a few stations that will get little use in the early years. That's just my gut feeling.


Same thoughts too. Here's what I think will be the busiest stations, in order from busiest to least:

1) Bridgeport
2) Richmond City Centre
3) Broadway-City Hall
4) Waterfront
5) Vancouver City Centre
6) Marine Drive
7) YVR-Terminal
8) Oakridge-41st
9) Aberdeen
10) Yaletown
11) Lansdowne
12) King Edward
13) Olympic Village
14) 49th Avenue-Langara
15) Sea Island Centre
16) Templeton


----------



## Overground

Wally said:


> Absolutely not! So it makes me wonder why they are pouring in so much money at it at the first place for a single line...oh wait! I know why...Westside creme de la creme!!!! :|


Your obsession with cream is really getting annoying and is counter-productive to this thread. Who's acting like the kid here?


----------



## mr.x

*CANADA LINE TRAIN UPDATE*

The first wave of new urban trains for Rio de Janeiro have just arrived.....and guess what, they're made by ROTEM and they are the XG-EMU; also our Canada Line trains. These Brazilian trains have a lot more in common with the Canada Line rendering than the ones I've shown you (including the doors which open inside, not outside).











*interior*









*lateral safety *









*interior*

















*eletronic sign panel* (CANADA LINE TRAINS WILL HAVE THESE "NEXT STATION" SIGNS"









*Seat for 2 passengers*









*Seat for 3 passengers + waste basket*









*Seat for 4 passengers (back to back)*









*Seats 2 e 4 passengers *









*Light and hand-pole*









*Hand-pole detail*









*Conection*









* lateral safety + waste basket*









*Outside*


----------



## alta-bc

Canada line train will be driverless though, right?

And I thought the cars would have "plug in" type doors, is that not the case anymore?


----------



## Overground

Wicked!


----------



## zonie

Lots of space, but there's not much to hold onto in those trains.


----------



## mr.x

alta-bc said:


> Canada line train will be driverless though, right?
> 
> And I thought the cars would have "plug in" type doors, is that not the case anymore?


Yes, these trains are still completely driverless. 

What are "plug in" type doors?


----------



## mr.x

zonie said:


> Lots of space, but there's not much to hold onto in those trains.


there are tons of poles everywhere.


----------



## zonie

Not really, considering how much space there is, especially in the door areas.


----------



## mr.x

zonie said:


> Not really, considering how much space there is, especially in the door areas.


there are poles everywhere (on the sides and down the corridor) and there are bars near the ceiling that go down the corridor. it's enough.....we don't want to overkill it or make it hard to get in/out.


----------



## mrtfreak

mr.x said:


> Yes, these trains are still completely driverless.
> 
> What are "plug in" type doors?


Plug doors are doors that push out and open outside the vehicle. You know, the type that swings out of a bus or a train. Its common on train like the MTR in Hong Kong. In humid countries, it helps to keep the air-conditioning in the vehicle.

Any idea what the colour scheme of the Canada Line (CL) trains will be like? Red?


----------



## Smelser

officedweller said:


> The maximum would be what is called the "crush load" - i.e. like the Toronto subway in rush hour!! - there's no comfort or dignity about having your face in someone's armpit.


Exactly, that's what I am saying. There are seats for 40. At 80 people per car as many are standing as sitting, and beyond 80? To get to this "capacity" figure of 27,000 per hour you need, with five car trains arriving every 1.5 minutes (a total of 40 trains or 200 cars per hour) an average of 135 people per car. While that is less than what you have described as the "crush load", it's still going to be a very sweaty, uncomfortable ride, especially if it's anything over 10 to 15 minutes. Imagine someone trying to fit a cranky kid in a stroller onto a train like that.

This is why I say that these LRT capacity figures are quite misleading. They assume conditions that are simply not bearable as a regular routine. If the transit authority thinks this kind of travel will "attract" motorists away from vehicles and towards transit, they are wrong, and the GVRD and Vancouver City "planner" types undoubtedly know that. That's why they put so much emphasis on taxing and congesting people out of their cars, i.e. vehement opposition to twinning Port Mann and widening the Trans Canada. All this so they can pack them like sardines on a thoroughly second rate system.




officedweller said:


> It's not required for the Olympics though - it is not part of the Bid Book - the only thing would be having egg on your face because of construction sites around the route - but that's not the government's fault (i.e. politically, they could dodge around it). If InTransitBC runs out of money, there would be indications of it long before the 11th hour - so any construction sites could at least be cleaned up.
> 
> Depends on what would make the government look dumber - throwing extra money at an unfinished project to complete it for a 2 week event, or dealing with an incomplete system and seeking claims against InTransitBC and completing the project in due course.



I must say I am quite surprised to hear this isn't part of the Bid Book. Every discussion I have ever seen of Olympic economic impacts always packages together the Games themselves, the Vancouver Convention and Exhibition Centre, the upgrades to Hwy 99, and the RAV line. 

If you have a half completed RAV line, OKay, Canada Line in approved parlance, who's going to offer to finish it less expensively. InTransitBC, or some successor contractor?

My real point is that with a half completed line and a need for more money, and with the Olympics bearing down on the City, the province, the nation, ... there's going to be enormous pressure on everyone and the usual GVRD nostrums and sacred cows are going to have a helluva hard time surviving. People are going to start taking a serious look at the cost benefit of these LRT lines versus road improvements with express bus lanes.

Let's take another look at that imaginary figure of 27,000 people per hour. Consider one freeway lane turned into an HOV lane. It can carry 2000 vehicles, more or less of any type, per hour. If there are 1,400 two passenger cars and 600 buses carrying 45 people each, ... and each of those 45 is seated comfortably, able to read a book or listen to their headphones, not one is standing with their face in someone's armpit, ... the total carried per hour comes to 2,800 in cars, and 27,000 in buses. So where is the advantage of LRT? It's time the public in Vancouver was treated to an honest discussion of these choices.


----------



## ailiton

alta-bc said:


> Canada line train will be driverless though, right?
> 
> And I thought the cars would have "plug in" type doors, is that not the case anymore?


From the rendering of the train, it looks like the doors hollow in. I don't think they are plug in doors.


----------



## Smelser

Overground said:


> Your obsession with cream is really getting annoying and is counter-productive to this thread. Who's acting like the kid here?



I think Wally comes by his anger honestly. Perhaps you don't recall or never heard of a presentation a "citizen" made to Vancouver City Council about four years ago. I cannot recall what the actual issue was, but she basically said she came from the Arbutus neighborhood, next to Shaughnessy, and that the Council dare not ignor her and her neighbours, because "we are your orthodontists and tax lawyers, your chartered accountants and executives, we are the creme de la creme." 

That's not quite the true exact quote, it's from memory having read newspaper coverage at the time, but it's pretty close. After all, you don't forget arrogance like that!

And it is undoubtedly true that one reason for selecting Cambie over Arbutus alignements for a transit route to Richmond has to do with avoiding well-to-do neighborhoods. I don't think that's the only or most important one, but it is a factor.

Perhaps someday the Arbutus line will be the location for a West Coast Express type service to Richmond, Delta, South Surrey and White Rock (Blaine, ... Bellingham?).


----------



## Overground

I certainly agree with alot of the arguments on both sides of the issues. But the constant use of the phrase is quite annoying after time and especially sometimes when it's indirectly pointed at a certain forumer. It creates a sense of hostility in this thread and others.


----------



## mr.x

Overground said:


> I certainly agree with alot of the arguments on both sides of the issues. But the constant use of the phrase is quite annoying after time and especially sometimes when it's indirectly pointed at a certain forumer. It creates a sense of hostility in this thread and others.


Precisely, and yet he continues to claim that I'm "creme de la creme" simply because I live on the westside and claims I was responsible for expensive tunneling on Cambie and avoiding the Arbutus route.......yet I live 10 km west of Arbutus and even farther away from Cambie, obviously. And yet I've always made public that the Arbutus creme de la creme have to some extent prevented RAV on that corridor (but then, that corridor wouldn't have worked anyhow), that sections of the line on Cambie should be elevated, etc. It's worse than talking to wall....the wall bites back.

It's always the same old same old "westside creme de la creme" or "little boy" (wth is that) or "a train high in the Sky"......it's irritating! Say something productive for once! 

Not to mention he's making assumptions (not everybody that lives in the westside is rich) on all sorts of things and yet he lives in Portland (used to live in Van. years ago).


----------



## matthewcs

The Trains won't be using that colour scheme will they? No offense to the Brasilians, but that train looks awful (as far as it's colour is concerned). It must also be hard to keep it looking clean as well....


----------



## officedweller

The Canada Line trains will be silver - probably paint then (as in Brazil) rather than polished stainless steel.



Smelser said:


> So where is the advantage of LRT?


It's always going to be difficult for any form of transit to compete with the car - whether it's personal space, convenience of point to point travel or cargo capacity. 
It'll only be when (if) driving a car becomes relatively intolerable (whether due to congestion on roads/bridges, high gas costs, high parking costs or taxes (tolls, etc)) - personally, high parking costs seen like a very powerful deterrant. 
One of the advantages of Skytrain or Canada Line is its own ROW - especially at bottlenecks at the various bridges in the region. Even HOV lanes can get backed up. 
In GVRD, we don't have the sort of congestion you see in many other larger cities, so buses could be an alternative - it depends on whether you want to have transit appeal to a broader segment of the population (and it would be tough to counter the "loser cruiser" moniker with just buses). i.e. do we need transit at all or anything above even just a minimal level of service? i.e. apart from pollution, why are cars so bad?


----------



## mr.x




----------



## Smelser

officedweller said:


> It's always going to be difficult for any form of transit to compete with the car - whether it's personal space, convenience of point to point travel or cargo capacity.
> It'll only be when (if) driving a car becomes relatively intolerable (whether due to congestion on roads/bridges, high gas costs, high parking costs or taxes (tolls, etc)) - personally, high parking costs seen like a very powerful deterrant.
> ...
> 
> i.e. apart from pollution, why are cars so bad?



I think the proper way to resolve this puzzle is through the use of benefit-cost analysis, where non-market costs like pollution and the opportunity costs of land are accounted for along with monetized prices for labour, capital, fuels, equipment, etc. 

But none of the vocal interest groups and neither local nor provincial governments will ever agree to that, because they are all afraid of the answers. One particular danger is that advocates and causists will insist that the non-market costs of air pollution be given truly extraordinary shadow prices far out of line with anything rational or serious, turning the entire calculation into a complete farce. There are, after all, three sorts of lies, just as Disreali said. And he was talking before there were computers around to help out!

In European countries LRT is used in conjunction with longer distance higher speed trains operating from different platforms of the same stations, but with the higher speed trains stopping only at selected stations. In the GVRD the game has been the usual, BC go-cheap-and-pretend-it's-working-strategy, by pressing LRT into service over medium to longer haul routes of twenty or more kilometres and adamantly refusing to put in higher speed trains for the longer distances.

The GVRD types, the various urban environmentalists, and the transit advocacy types don't want higher speed trains for fear, they say, that this will induce urban sprawl in the Fraser Valley. What they mean is it might lead to a more competitive (read "lower priced") real estate market for residential properties. That could leave a lot of Vancouver City's and Burnaby's recent yuppie house and condo buyers sitting on top of a zero or negative equity situation. The reaction from the yuppies, rendered mortgage hostages in their own dwellings, plus the outraged parents who coughed up the downpayments, could be pretty damn serious! 

Vancouver and Burnaby officials and politicians are also sick to death with fear and loathing that Surrey and Langley are going to start eating seriously into Vancouver's major share of the GVRD's industrial and commercial tax base, hence their criticisms of industrial and office parks which have given the suburbs a bigger share of recent job growth. They try to dress this up as a critique of irresponsible suburban politicians (there are no irresponsible politicians in the City of Vancouver, of course) who have failed to follow the sacred texts of the Livable Region plan, but what they mean is "we're losing revenue".


----------



## officedweller

In terms of individuals making personal decisions about their behaviour - it'll have to hit them in the pocketbook - and that won't be based on a societal cost-benefit analysis, but rather, an individual / household analysis.

With the longer commuter lines, Translink already expressed a concern that the Evergreen Line could take ridership from the WCE, so I'll bet there already is interplay between these modes for priority (behind the scenes).
Apart from bridging to Abbotsford from Mission, a commuter line south of the Fraser would have to use the New Westminster rail bridge - which is the bigger bottleneck around, and then those tracks run to the False Creek Flats - and cross Venables at-grade to access the CP Station @ Waterfront (I doubt a terminus at the Main Street VIA Station would work). If they fix that bridge (increase capacity) that would also help Amtrak Cascades. The bridge fix is on the radar, has been studied (including tunnels), but is a long way off.

Agreed on Vancouver and Burnaby being afraid of losing their dominance of the region. (Yet Vancouver isn't densifying at rapid transit nodes).


----------



## Smelser

officedweller said:


> Agreed on Vancouver and Burnaby being afraid of losing their dominance of the region. (Yet Vancouver isn't densifying at rapid transit nodes).


Yes, that lack of real density is something that stands out. It makes a mockery of the City's complaint that Surrey and Langley are being faithless towards the LRSP.

Hopefully the BC Govt will pressure the City into doing something about this, all along Cambie Street and the Canada Line for example, as well as revisiting the situation for Expo and Millenium line stations. And if pressure doesn't work, there's always the Mike Harris remedy of region wide amalgamation, coupled with changes to the governing statutes, the City Charter Act and the Municipal Act, that would basically mandate certain actions, both with regards to traffic planning and density and zoning issues.


----------



## splashflash

> Hopefully the BC Govt will pressure the City into doing something about this, all along Cambie Street and the Canada Line for example, as well as revisiting the situation for Expo and Millenium line stations.


You're joking, right. The current provincial government! 

Stations in Vancouver which should have greater accompanying density are Nanaimo, 29th Ave, Renfrew, Rupert and VCC. Joyce, Main and Stadium have had density increases (to be fair) and resultant transit ridership increases.



> And if pressure doesn't work, there's always the Mike Harris remedy of region wide amalgamation, coupled with changes to the governing statutes, the City Charter Act and the Municipal Act, that would basically mandate certain actions, both with regards to traffic planning and density and zoning issues.


Perhaps, if it were done geographically similarly to what Harris did for Toronto. Outlying cities, Mississauga, Brampton, Vaughn Richmond Hill, and Markham were not included in the new city. North York, which was included in Toronto would never have agreed to densify around the freeway and new Sheppard Subway line as a separate city and densification would not have occurred if the outlying cities were included politically in planning decisions. I suspect the same of Surrey/Langley. A GVRD morphed into a mega-city would dilute good planning choices which could accrue if New West, Burnaby and Vancouver were rather amalgamated, or Langley, Surrey and White Rock and East Richmond (east if highway 99) were a regional city.



> If they fix that bridge (increase capacity) that would also help Amtrak Cascades. The bridge fix is on the radar, has been studied (including tunnels), but is a long way off.


It is a shame that the New West Bridge weren't replaced farther upstream. This would remove a major contraint to twinning the Patullo Bridge. If a truck/rail bridge were built to connect to the CP line which heads north through Port Coquitlam and west to Coquitlam and Vancouver, commuter rail could work well. A highway tunnel has been looked at between Cariboo interchange and 10th and McBride. If this were continued to the Patullo twin bridge, New West streets wouldn't be so plugged with traffic, tolling would be better justified, and a better and safer freeway network would result.

One wonders if a Patullo twin connecting with the #1 freeway with an accompanying a Lougheed (Coquitlam) / Surrey Port Mann rail/truck and north/south only bridge _not_ connecting to the #1 freeway would be better than what is now proposed.


----------



## Smelser

splashflash said:


> Stations in Vancouver which should have greater accompanying density are Nanaimo, 29th Ave, Renfrew, Rupert and VCC. Joyce, Main and Stadium have had density increases (to be fair) and resultant transit ridership increases.


I tend to agree, although perhaps Nanaimo and 29th Avenue should stay at low rise levels since they are more clearly suburban in character. The one the is really out of place is Broadway/Commercial, where there should be at least some ten or twelve storey buildings allowed for several blocks around.

For the Cambie Street route, I would think that two or three blocks either side of Cambie, from False Creek to the Fraser River, should be zoned for apartment or mixed commercial apartment buildings of a seven or eight storey height, about 80 feet or so, in other words, not higher than some mature trees. Apartment only buildings should maintain the current landscape setbacks that give Vancouver steets their more residential look, something that was lost in the Yaletown push.



splashflash said:


> A GVRD morphed into a mega-city would dilute good planning choices which could accrue if New West, Burnaby and Vancouver were rather amalgamated, or Langley, Surrey and White Rock and East Richmond (east if highway 99) were a regional city.


I really think the only way to get any common sense into the situation is to force the city people to accept input from the suburbanites, who aren't going to look at every block and polling station in Vancouver proper as some special, unique bit of God's half acre. It's that kind of idiotic parochialism that is paralyzing the situation, and the only way to break it up is to get the Surrey non-conformists into the room to holler "Bullshit" every time Larry Beasley or Gordon Price is invited to make some homily laden address, all of which start with the ritual genuflection to the 1960s and 1970s anti-freeway battles.



splashflash said:


> It is a shame that the New West Bridge weren't replaced farther upstream. This would remove a major contraint to twinning the Patullo Bridge. If a truck/rail bridge were built to connect to the CP line which heads north through Port Coquitlam and west to Coquitlam and Vancouver, commuter rail could work well.


There is no doubt in my mind that we need more GO-type, or West Coast Express type services, and as in Ontario, we need to start running them 18 hours a day, not just 4 hours a day in two separated bursts. Undoubtedly, the powerful Govt of Ontario has a helluva lot easier time making a few friendly phone calls to Ottawa asking the Feds to put some pressure on the railroad companies to be cooperative. How BC can get that kind of cooperation I really don't know. Up to a few months ago I would have said we all just have to get down on all fours and vote Liberal, but it looks like that remedy is now well past its best before date.

I think we need a train running southwest to Abbotsford and Chilliwack along the CN lines and another train running south to Richmond, Delta and White Rock along the Arbutus line and then other tracks as needed. I understand that either of these projects could require expensive tunnelling either at New Westminster or more capacity at Deas Island, but Deas Island is supposed to be upgraded in any event, although not right away.

The other thing we need to do, which I don't believe Ontario has done, at least not from the schedules I have seen, is to get these trains running at better overall speeds. IOWs, the WCExpress should be making Mission in 50 to 55 minutes, not 75 minutes.



splashflash said:


> A highway tunnel has been looked at between Cariboo interchange and 10th and McBride. If this were continued to the Patullo twin bridge, New West streets wouldn't be so plugged with traffic, tolling would be better justified, and a better and safer freeway network would result.


Never heard of this one. I suppose we can take it for granted that the Burnaby Council would be vehemently opposed to any such freeway project on their territory.



splashflash said:


> One wonders if a Patullo twin connecting with the #1 freeway with an accompanying a Lougheed (Coquitlam) / Surrey Port Mann rail/truck and north/south only bridge _not_ connecting to the #1 freeway would be better than what is now proposed.


I am not sure what you're proposing here, but bridging the main arm of the Fraser is not a cheap proposition. The Golden Ears Crossing is now $800 million, athough admittedly that includes major roadwork as well. If there's going to be a second Port Mann, I figure that will be it for one decade, unless it's a railroad bridge or tunnell funded by the railways.


----------



## officedweller

splashflash said:


> Stations in Vancouver which should have greater accompanying density are Nanaimo, 29th Ave, Renfrew, Rupert and VCC. Joyce, Main and Stadium have had density increases (to be fair) and resultant transit ridership increases.


Renfrew, Rupert and VCC are supposed to be high tech office nodes. This is in part meant to preserve jobs on former industrial lands (compared to say, the rezoning at Joyce). Joyce and Main were only densified because it removed ugly industrial and replaced it with "pretty" residential. Stadium is close to the core, and really figures into the Expo Lands, so there's more than just transit at work there. The ones that stick out in Vancouver are Broadway Commercial (compare to Yonge-Eglinton in TO), Nanaimo and 29th Ave.. (at least townhouses or midrises would help).



splashflash said:


> It is a shame that the New West Bridge weren't replaced farther upstream. This would remove a major contraint to twinning the Patullo Bridge. If a truck/rail bridge were built to connect to the CP line which heads north through Port Coquitlam and west to Coquitlam and Vancouver, commuter rail could work well. A highway tunnel has been looked at between Cariboo interchange and 10th and McBride. If this were continued to the Patullo twin bridge, New West streets wouldn't be so plugged with traffic, tolling would be better justified, and a better and safer freeway network would result.
> 
> One wonders if a Patullo twin connecting with the #1 freeway with an accompanying a Lougheed (Coquitlam) / Surrey Port Mann rail/truck and north/south only bridge _not_ connecting to the #1 freeway would be better than what is now proposed.


I agree that reducing the distance between alternate bridges would do a lot for connectivity (i.e. between Patullo and Port Mann). And esp. if a lot of the trips over the Port Mann are local (PoCo / Coquitlam to Surrey), a local bridge would do a lot to help traffic in the area and pose less of a threat to Vancouver and Burnaby. Having everyone take one route (Hwy 1) seems inefficient to me.

The Cariboo Connector is called the Stormont Connector - I think it is a surface arterial road.

There was an article in Wednesday's Sun about WCE wanting to expand to have more trips (possibly midday as well), but Federal legislation apparently does not establish an adequate dispute resolution mechanism if they can't strioke a deal with CP.


----------



## Smelser

officedweller said:


> The Cariboo Connector is called the Stormont Connector - I think it is a surface arterial road.


During the month of May 1979, when we had simultaneous federal and provincial general elections, I did the rounds of various party campaign offices around the Greater Vancouver area. At one point, I dropped into the Social Credit offices in Delta. The incumbent MLA Walter Davidson happened to be there at the time, and I spoke to him for a few minutes about the Annacis Island Bridge, a project which he had sort of made the centrepiece of his own local re-election campaign.

He told me that building that bridge and connecting it to the rest of the Lower Mainland's highway and freeway system would include, among other things, "building the Stormont Interchange" on the Trans Canada Highway. He did not use the term "Stormont Connector", but that may have been implied.

I find it hard sometimes to understand where all these seemingly specific sounding projects are being referenced from, since to find anything in the public domain is very nearly impossible. Try to find anything on the North Fraser Freeway, to pick one example, or a bridge from Deep Cove to Belcarra.


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## officedweller

I just googled "stormont connector" and came up with this hit (from 1998):

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/publications/reports_and_studies/southcoast/newwest/introduction.htm

Scroll to the bottom and click on Level Three.

It has been in the news as recently as July 2004.

http://www.burnabynow.com/issues04/074104/news/074104nn7.html


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## spongeg

officedweller said:


> I just googled "stormont connector" and came up with this hit (from 1998):
> 
> http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/publications/reports_and_studies/southcoast/newwest/introduction.htm
> 
> Scroll to the bottom and click on Level Three.
> 
> It has been in the news as recently as July 2004.
> 
> http://www.burnabynow.com/issues04/074104/news/074104nn7.html


that second article shows how cities think so selfishly instead of regionally


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## Smelser

spongeg said:


> that second article shows how cities think so selfishly instead of regionally



Certainly if you were creating an entirely new city somewhere you wouldn't carve it up into several different municipalities. That would be inefficient and irrational. But in Greater Vancouver, and many other metro areas, the accumulation of past decisions amounts, for now and in the future, a division of one large community into various competing fiefdoms. 

Thanks for the links, Officedweller, they were very informative. And given their stance against Port Mann and Hwy 1, it's surprising to see Burnaby Councillors proding New West Council into keeping the option open for highways enhancements. That's the exact opposite of what I would have expected. However, it did not appear from a very quick browing of the MOT links that any of these proposed connectors would be actual freeway connections between 91 and 1, they would be arterials with intersections.


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## officedweller

That's right, as far as I know, they are just arterials.


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## officedweller

New pics at the Canada Line site:

http://www.canadaline.ca/galleryFront.asp?GalleryID=0

Launching Girder @ Bridgeport Station area:



















Pic into the bored tunnel with concrete tunnel liner segments being placed:


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## spongeg

Smelser said:


> Certainly if you were creating an entirely new city somewhere you wouldn't carve it up into several different municipalities. That would be inefficient and irrational. But in Greater Vancouver, and many other metro areas, the accumulation of past decisions amounts, for now and in the future, a division of one large community into various competing fiefdoms.
> 
> Thanks for the links, Officedweller, they were very informative. And given their stance against Port Mann and Hwy 1, it's surprising to see Burnaby Councillors proding New West Council into keeping the option open for highways enhancements. That's the exact opposite of what I would have expected. However, it did not appear from a very quick browing of the MOT links that any of these proposed connectors would be actual freeway connections between 91 and 1, they would be arterials with intersections.


yeah i get that - it seems outsiders don't seem to ge the issues that go on in the GVRD...

one more crossing would be great though - there are no crossings from burnaby to richmond at all - you must go via vancouver or new west and with all the growth that burnaby is doing and planning on it really needs to open up one of its own fraser river crossings


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## zonie

300m of original Skytrain rails north of Broadway station (both eastbound & westbound) will be replaced over the next two weekends.


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## elkram

zonie said:


> original Skytrain rails


As though the network's been around long enough to have gone through a series of replacements . . . . unless the rails were counterfeit from the outset! :jk: 

Cheers,
Chris


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## spongeg

the millenium line won't be going downtown during the two weeks and they say expect 15 minute delays for the two weeks of work

found two other news stories:


SkyTrain service will be slower than usual over the next two weekends while a section of track is replaced. 

TransLink is urging passengers to expect delays of around 15 minutes when travelling on Aug. 12-13 and Aug. 19-20. 

The work is happening on a sharp curve just north of Broadway station. 

More than 8 million SkyTrain cars have rolled over that section and it’s time to replace it, officials say. 

While work is under way, trains will run on a single track between Nanaimo and Main Street stations. They’ll be less frequent, TransLink says, but longer trains will be put on to ensure adequate capacity. 

Millennium Line trains won’t go downtown – passengers will have to transfer to Expo trains. 

PNE buses 


Meanwhile, TransLink officials are urging fairgoers heading to the Pacific National Exhibition take transit and avoid the headaches of traffic, parking and high gas prices. 

The fair runs Aug. 19 to Sept. 4. 

Special PNE buses will leave every 15 minutes from SkyTrain’s 29th Avenue station on the Expo line and Renfrew station on the Millennium Line, and every half hour from Phibbs Exchange in North Vancouver. 

Other regular bus routes to the PNE include #10, #16, #135 and #4. 

http://www.tricitynews.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=74&cat=43&id=706238&more=


There’s not much more that can be done to keep blind passengers from falling on to SkyTrain tracks without spending tens of millions of dollars, a TransLink spokesman says. 

Drew Snider was speaking after an accident Monday at Vancouver’s 29th Avenue Station, where a visually impaired rider was injured after making a wrong turn and falling in front of a moving train. 

“He teetered at the brink and went in just as the other train was arriving,” said Snider, describing video images captured by TransLink cameras. 

He said installing clear barriers that would run the length of each platform, allowing passengers to only walk where SkyTrain doors open, would be tremendously expensive. 

“It’s measured in the millions of dollars per station,” he said. “It was a decision of TransLink a few years ago the money would be better spent on other areas of safety.” 

Part of the challenge is the fact different-sized SkyTrain cars and different lengths of trains mean the doors don’t open in consistent spots. 

Blind patrons have fallen on the tracks before but only three have actually been hit by a moving train, Snider said. 

“It’s been a relative handful when you consider we’re pushing up around a billion rides now on SkyTrain,” he said. 

He said TransLink installed yellow tactile strips near the edge of each platform in 2004 at a cost of $5 million after consulting with advocates for the visually impaired. The tactile strips help blind passengers with canes determine when they’re within half a metre of the edge, he said. 

A new strategy on accessible transit is coming to TransLink’s board in the fall, he said; that will roll out more initiatives, not just for the physically disabled but also for passengers with language challenges – such as tourists and new immigrants.

http://www.tricitynews.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=74&cat=23&id=701686&more=


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## dchengg

speaking of stupid skytrain track maintence!

I went to the station Half an hour before my job interview, and i was at broadways tation, i ahd to wait for the third train inorder to be able to get to downtown,and that was 15 minutes! well.. i may sound like making a big deal of it, because its my first job interview, and my very first job~~ im only 14 xDD i was a bit late, but luckily i called in earlier~

Why did they have to do this on a summer weekend afternoon?? cant they do that during midnight or in the evening where theres not as much people? this almost screwed me up because it usually takes a 2 minute wait, but turned out to be 15minutes~


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## spongeg

no matter what time of day they do it - one section of the track is closed because its being replaced - trains can;t ride when there is no track somewhere


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## zonie

dchengg said:


> Why did they have to do this on a summer weekend afternoon?? cant they do that during midnight or in the evening where theres not as much people? this almost screwed me up because it usually takes a 2 minute wait, but turned out to be 15minutes~


From the notice I saw, it says they work on this around-the-clock for the entirety of the two weekends, from Friday evening to Monday morning.

Hope the job interview went well!


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## dchengg

On saturday night, i took the skytrain, and i didnt feel safe, and wondered what the skytrain police are for. there were like "unneccessary" people hanging around the trains..


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## mr.x

dchengg said:


> On saturday night, i took the skytrain, and i didnt feel safe, and wondered what the skytrain police are for. there were like "unneccessary" people hanging around the trains..


It's the weekend, especially on a Saturday night. They're off work.


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## zonie

Would SkyPigs™ be an affectionate nickname, or not?


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## officedweller

New pics on the Canada Line website: http://www.canadaline.ca/galleryFront.asp?GalleryID=0

Pics of the 31st Ave area up at the Canada Line site:

































@YVR









Arthur Laing Bridge looking west to YVR:









At grade guideway west of Templeton Station:









West from Oak Street Bridge:









Operations & Maintenance Centre site:


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## spongeg

3 years to go!


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## allurban

*A couple of questions about the Skytrain*

The RapidKL Kelana Jaya line in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia (which is very similar to the Skytrain Millenium line trains) just had its latest breakdown.

The suggestions coming out of KL are that these breakdowns are a result of maintenance issues. However, there is a concern, given that the breakdowns happen more often on the Kelana Jaya line than the other lines (which do not use the ART Mark II technology).

I've written a letter suggesting the Minister of Transport in Malaysia that RapidKL (the operator) and SPNB (the infrastructure company) contact Translink and Bombardier to discuss maintenance issues...perhaps arranging an exchange of ideas and skills and helping RapidKL improve on their maintenance.

Im just wondering tho....Are there any major concerns in Vancouver regarding the ART Mark II technology? 

I know from experience that Toronto has had long-standing issues with the ART Mark I. Despite this, the most recent recommendation for the Scarborough RT was to convert to the ART Mark II and expand the system.

At the same time, Vancouver (the only other major user of the ART besides KL) is not using ART for the Canada Line.

RapidKL is currently planning an extension of their Kelana Jaya line...should they be looking at different technology too? 

I also wanted to know, how did Skytrain build the link between the Millenium line and the Expo line at Columbia Station? Is it a simple wye, or something more complicated. Does anyone have any photos of the track around Columbia Station, or or track diagrams? They would be very much appreciated.

Thanks very much

Cheers, m


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## spongeg

no pics but at columbia station the trains can either go up over the bridge or to the side and under the other line

sort of like two lines turn into 4


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## spongeg

actually if you watch at the end of this video you can see where the trains divide

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e_WXtMd8Ig


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## OettingerCroat

amazing news, be sure to archive this thread when you reach 500 posts, this stuff is worth keeping!

:cheers2:


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## zonie

Translink has finally figured out which buses it will order.

126 new 40-foot, low-floor standard diesel buses with particulate filters will be in service for September 2007. This will be both to replace old buses, and expand the fleet by 51 buses overall. It's the first phase of $400 million in bus purchases over the next 3 years.

They beat out the hybrid electric and compressed natural gas (CNG) options.

The reasoning for choosing this option was that they needed buses by next fall to relieve overcrowding, and only diesels would actually be ready. They are said to pollute about the same amount as CNG buses, but they're about 25% cheaper, so the net impact on pollution would be bigger since more of the older pollutomatic diesels can be replaced sooner.


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## zivan56

^^ Not to mention the decision to cancel as many C40LFs after ordering them was more of a political decision after a change of power.
Apparantly their reasoning for this is due to a lack of refueling stations.
Not too sure how the Novabuses they are replacing the order with are, but I hope they are at least equal to the performance of the new C40LFs.


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## officedweller

allurban said:


> Im just wondering tho....Are there any major concerns in Vancouver regarding the ART Mark II technology?


No major concerns regarding the MKII technology. I think the lastest service interruptions have been due to power supply problems - doubt that would be unique to the MKIIs.

The Evergreen Line to Coquitlam is planned as conventional LRT (not ART MKII) to save on costs. Studies reported that MKIIs would provide superior service, but the money isn't there to fund it.

Scarborough's system will apparently be upgraded to MKIIs and sections of the line rebuilt. The problems there were that the line was built to the old MKI specifications (underpasses and curves) that did not fit the larger MKII cars (and the MKI cars are no longer beig built) - so expanding passenger capacity (by adding new cars) was a problem.


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## officedweller

New report being presented to the Translink Board regarding the Evergreen Line. Note that the diagram for the Coquitlam Central Station appears to include a switch for a branch to Port Coquitlam. 

http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/board_files/meet_agenda_min/2006/10_18_06/4.4Case.pdf

And it includes this diagram of future transit lines/routes in the region - personally, I think use of the word "extension" for the M-Line west and Surrey suggests using the same technology (Skytrain). Note that the Evergreen Line Extension to Port Coquitlam is not on the diagram - so it would rank behind the other two extensions.










Note also this report regarding the purchase of 34 new MKII cars for delivery in 2009.

http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/board_files/meet_agenda_min/2006/10_18_06/4.5SkyTrain.pdf


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## Haber

^ I don't think you can could have a split skytrain extension like that in surrey, that would make the service too infrequent to be useful. I heard Surrey is thinking of building a B-Line in the meantime and later and LRT line


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## OettingerCroat

^^^^ so wait, the skytrain will actually go to UBC??? thats so awesome.


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## mr.x

Haber said:


> ^ I don't think you can could have a split skytrain extension like that in surrey, that would make the service too infrequent to be useful. I heard Surrey is thinking of building a B-Line in the meantime and later and LRT line


you actually could. if they had less trains going from Waterfront to VCC but rather to Waterfront to King George, and the M-Line trains terminating at Columbia and turning back to VCC....there could be high frequency on the Surrey SkyTrain stretch.

but i don't understand how the Canada Line could have a peak frequency of 3 minutes.....isn't it technically possible to have it run every 90 secs in Vancouver and 180 secs in Richmond and YVR?


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## nname

OettingerCroat said:


> ^^^^ so wait, the skytrain will actually go to UBC??? thats so awesome.


But it might not be skytrain... Nothing is determined at this point. I would think the "extension" from the document means an extension rapid transit, not specifically to skytrain.

I thought the corrider in Surrey was suppose to be implemented as BRT in 2013, then change to LRT later.

This is from the 2007 transportation plan (http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/board_files/meet_agenda_min/2006/10_18_06/4.2Attachment.pdf)

*West Broadway Rapid Transit Planning Study*
In fall 2007, TransLink proposes to initiate a planning study for the extension of rapid transit to the Central Broadway Business District and beyond to the University of BC. The study will examine technologies, phasing, corridors, capital and operating costs, and ridership and revenue projections. The alternatives analysis will be completed in early 2009.


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## OettingerCroat

i would highly support that for the long run, even though initially it may not seem overly prrofitable. in the long term it will be best, to build now and enjoy the impact it brings to the region of the city, rather than building it once u need it more say 15-20 years or w/e, when the rest of the city is crisscrossed by skytrain and better developed and this stretch is only served by a rapid bus or w/e its called. plus it will be a cool way to get to college :lol:


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## Plumber73

Surrey extension dunno or Western extension... Hmmmmm... Which one should they build first? :tongue4: I actually think the Western extension should be built even before the Evergreen line. Seems to me it would be an instant success. I just hope they can figure out how to do it and come up with the money. Ideally, it would be skytrain technology continuing from VCC. You'd figure that would be another couple billion if they go underground. I can't see any other way of doing it properly.


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## ryanr

I sure hope they build the western extension. 99 B-lines are incredibly full during peak hours. And it would also encourage more students (like me) to take the skytrain to school, reducing the load on the many bus routes such as 41, 480, 25, etc...


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## arashi_1987

*Severe Overcrowding on 99B (Including OFF-Peak hours)*

Just to add to the last comment about the 99B line being full during PEAK hours. In the past 2 years of daily commute on the 99B Line (end to end), I've noticed that there is an increasing number of overcrowding/pass-ups even during NON-Peak hours. I don't know why that is becoming the trend but I am starting to get the feeling that *overcrowding on the 99B is occurring at many times of the day*.

Today at about 12:55PM the 99B left Commercial Drive fully packed as well, though there weren't any pass-ups, luckily.

This evening I left UBC on 99B at 6:35PM fully packed. It didn't stop at the UBC Village (about a dozen people waiting) and didn't open the front doors at Macdonald (about 20 or so people):nono:. It took about 2-3 mintues to pack everyone on when the bus got to Granville. LUCKILY, there were only about a few people at Willow, Cambie and Main and they all got on.

This past summer I had summer school. My class ended at 9:20PM. I leave immediately after class to find long line ups for the 99B (just like PM rush hour) and the same things happen this late at night...pass ups and overcrowding. This happened every Tuesday/Thursday from May-June 2006 (I suspect that it's the same on the other days throughout the summer, but don't know about the situation now)

Maybe it's time to review the definition of peak hours.
For the 99B: off peak = peak hours; peak hours = EXTREME peak hours??!!

I don't know if it may be selfish to think that the "Western Extension" have priority over all the other planned projects but the corridor is undoubtedly over-over-over-capacity right now.


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## mr.x

the 98 B-Line has a daily ridership of 60,000, and yet the Evergreen Line still has priority over the Western UBC extension.


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## officedweller

mr.x said:


> and the M-Line trains terminating at Columbia and turning back to VCC....there could be high frequency on the Surrey SkyTrain stretch.
> 
> but i don't understand how the Canada Line could have a peak frequency of 3 minutes.....isn't it technically possible to have it run every 90 secs in Vancouver and 180 secs in Richmond and YVR?


M-Line trains terminating at Columbia would still cause a problem though, because using that stretch of the Expo Line as a tail-track for reversing trains would actually cause more delays than just interlining M-line and Expo Line trains. I tend to think that if the M-Line were truncated at Columbia, a third track would have to be built at Columbia. 

WRT Canada Line frequencies - uhh, because they aren't running the line at maximum frequency... (i.e. energy savings, wear and tear, etc.)


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## mr.x

officedweller said:


> M-Line trains terminating at Columbia would still cause a problem though, because using that stretch of the Expo Line as a tail-track for reversing trains would actually cause more delays than just interlining M-line and Expo Line trains. I tend to think that if the M-Line were truncated at Columbia, a third track would have to be built at Columbia.
> 
> WRT Canada Line frequencies - uhh, because they aren't running the line at maximum frequency... (i.e. energy savings, wear and tear, etc.)


a third track would be nice, and it would also mean renovations to the Columbia Station platforms.....that place is a bomb shelter.

oh, ok. thanks for clearing the Canada Line frequency up.


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## elkram

officedweller said:


>


Peculiar map -- another colour's needed to solve the loopy line -- _will _four trains ultimately be necessary between Port Moody and Surrey? There's something gushy about the map, it oozes that big-talk-essentially-hailing-from-whisperings sludge.


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## dchengg

elkram said:


> Peculiar map -- another colour's needed to solve the loopy line -- _will _four trains ultimately be necessary between Port Moody and Surrey? There's something gushy about the map, it oozes that big-talk-essentially-hailing-from-whisperings sludge.



^ The map still doesnt cover most parts of the lower mainland.. still lots of gaps!


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## arashi_1987

officedweller said:


> M-Line trains terminating at Columbia would still cause a problem though, because using that stretch of the Expo Line as a tail-track for reversing trains would actually cause more delays than just interlining M-line and Expo Line trains. I tend to think that if the M-Line were truncated at Columbia, a third track would have to be built at Columbia.
> 
> WRT Canada Line frequencies - uhh, because they aren't running the line at maximum frequency... (i.e. energy savings, wear and tear, etc.)


Could the m-line terminus (if...) at Columbia be built under the existing tracks...sort of as a continuation of the tunnel from Sapperton?


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## officedweller

elkram said:


> _will _four trains ultimately be necessary between Port Moody and Surrey?


If Surrey is built out as an LRT, then yes, 3 transfers would be required to travel from Port Moody to Surrey. Under any scenario, there would be a transfer at Columbia. Conceivably, with the third track in place, if the Evergreen Line were Skytrain, there could have been a through routing from Port Moody to Columbia, but with the Evergreen Line there will be a transfer. If the Surrey extensions are LRT, that forces another transfer.

**************

Columbia Station is actually in more of a trench than a tunnel - so a third platform would essentially be an expansion of the trench - not sure what the contraints would be though. The M-Line tunnel ends east of the Skybridge approach. Apparently Translink is having problems with the landlord of the building at Columbia Station - who has not fulfilled its obligation to maintain elevator access to the station.


----------



## OettingerCroat

why the hell does the millenium line loop through the same station.... so odd.... once the new lines are built, the expo and millenium line should look like this:


----------



## OettingerCroat

and here are my ideas for the future:










Light Blue: goes from Surrey extension along Expo line, split off and goes underground after Kingsway at Tyne Dr. You can call it the Olympic Line.

purple: tram line basicallly replacing the planned B-95 bus line, bc trams have higher peak capacity and people moving capability, have greater right of way privledges (more efficient), use electricity vs. [bio]diesel, look much cooler, etc. but primarily due to increased passenger transport. meets with evergreen line, goes long same tracks for a while, than splits off for port coquiltam. Call it Coquiltam Line.

Dark Red: Possible extension of Canada Line to serve more people. perhpas underground.

once all of these are employed, Vancouver is pretty much set. and definitely has something to brag about.


----------



## officedweller

OettingerCroat said:


> why the hell does the millenium line loop through the same station.... so odd.... once the new lines are built, the expo and millenium line should look like this:


That's the "T" line that is in the regional plan - to allow cross commuting from Surrey to Coquitlam. 
The M-Line was supposed to be LRT, but the NDP government of the day changed it to Skytrain. The line was supposed to be along Broadway and out to Coquitlam (via the Evergreeen route), with the branch to New West built later. But the switch to Skytrain meant that the line had to hook up to the maintenance yard on the old Expo Line - so the branch to New West was built first instead of later. The Evergreen route was to be Skytrain (the "PMC Line - for Port Moody Coquitlam), but the Liberal govenment that took over from the NDP cancelled it due to increasing costs and Translink then favoured a return to LRT which also has increasing costs.

BTW - the M-Line cannot currently route over the Skybridge to Surrey as the branch is a wye, not a triangle. A new set of switches would be required. Your plan would also require a lot of shortturn trains, as the busier parts of the Expo Line are nearer Metrotown and you've got route doubling up in north Surrey where there may not be a demand for higher frequency.

On you second map, the dark red line can't be underground because Richmond has a high water table. There is an old railway right-of-way that exists to Steveston - if you "flip" your dark red line it would place it on the old ROW.


----------



## OettingerCroat

^^ thx for the info, and the dark red direction of the bend doesnt really matter too much, just as long as it gets to the southern part. and its cool to know theres a railway right-of-way along the route, i guess it should be above-ground anyways bc the line to that point is way up in the air anyways.

what do u say bout the light blue line in the 2nd map?


----------



## yesheh

OettingerCroat said:


> ^^ thx for the info, and the dark red direction of the bend doesnt really matter too much, just as long as it gets to the southern part. and its cool to know theres a railway right-of-way along the route, i guess it should be above-ground anyways bc the line to that point is way up in the air anyways.
> 
> what do u say bout the light blue line in the 2nd map?


Unlikely to go out to coquitlam as tram b/c Burnaby mountain is in the middle and that doesn't really work that well.... However, I think some sort of Rapid transit is in the works for the hastings corridor eventually, though probably maybe only to centenial park or so? Probably as extension of the planned downtown light rail system....


----------



## officedweller

WRT the light blue line - I think a B-Line bus route is in the works for 41st Ave.


----------



## officedweller

*Sullivan wonders why Broadway to UBC SkyTrain route requires further study*

October 18, 2006 - 3:33 pm 
By: Nikki Pena and Maria Weisgarber 

COQUITLAM (NEWS1130) - Vancouver's Mayor is wondering why more studies need to done regarding the need for SkyTrain down West Broadway to UBC. Sam Sullivan says the level of demand along the corridor seems obvious already. "What would stop us from just moving forward and getting into the design so that we can be ready as soon as possible when more funding should come?"

That's a sentiment being echoed by his Non Partisan Association colleague, Councillor Peter Ladner who says the project should move ahead full steam. "We should be pushing ahead, preparing ourselves, being ready if and when senior government funding arrives."

TransLink is planning a study on expanding SkyTrain to UBC and the research is expected to get underway in the new year. TransLink staff say a previous study of the corridor doesn't take into account ridership factors like the U-Pass and the Canada Line. SkyTrain was supposed to have been expanded west along Broadway by this year.

*******************

*Evergreen Line not dead yet, TransLink approves next step*

October 18, 2006 - 3:40 pm 
By: Maria Weisgarber 

COQUITLAM (NEWS1130) - TransLink has decided to go ahead with the next step for the Evergreen Line. The board has approved $16 million for a detailed design even though a funding shortfall is still threatening to derail the transit project. TransLink still has to make up a $400 million funding gap by April 2007 so that construction can begin next fall. If the money doesn't come together, the entire project could be shelved.

Concerns have been raised on the fact there's been no funding committment from either the federal or provincial governments, but TransLink chair Malcolm Brodie says now is not the time to falter. "To me the only question is, when are those funds going to arrive from senior levels of government and we've got to continue the work on that and be as assertive as we can to make sure that this plan succeeds."

Port Moody Mayor Joe Trasolini believes shelling out for the next phase of the project is an unavoidable step. "If we don't, then we let the provincial and federal government off the hook. They would be able to say, 'Well, this is obviously not a priority for them.'"

TransLink plans to ask for meetings with Transportation Ministers from both levels of government. Victoria has called the line a priority but Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon hasn't even committed to matching a federal contribution, let alone pitching in more provincial dollars. Falcon has reportedly said he is nervous about pushing another billion dollar project into the pipeline when there are so many other megaprojects underway right now in BC.


----------



## officedweller

New pics from the Canada Line website:

Sea Island looking west to YVR:










Sea Island looking east to the Arthur Laing Bridge approach and the Middle Arm Bridge:










Sea Island looking to the Arthur Laing Bridge approach and the Middle Arm Bridge:










East of Bridgeport Station heading towards the Middle Arm Bridge to YVR


----------



## officedweller

Found some station renderings at the Hotson Bakker website:

http://www.hotsonbakker.com/canadaline.html

*Canada Line - King Edward, 41st Avenue, 49th Avenue Stations*
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
SNC Lavalin

The Canada Line is a largely subterranean, fully automated rapid transit system that will link downtown Vancouver with the airport and the City of Richmond. The system will consist of sixteen stations distributed along a 19-kilometer spine. At-grade entries will service established and emerging neighborhoods alike. Hotson Bakker Boniface Haden is the Architect and Coordinating Professional for the three stations within the South Cambie segment. This portion of the line is largely residential with concentrated nodes of commercial development. Our commitment to South Cambie stems from the knowledge that appropriate growth anddiversification of the segment are likely outcomes. 

Hotson Bakker Boniface Haden has also been working with a select group of Canada Line architects to develop an appropriate architectural response for the entire system. This includes sourcing and defining a suitable materials palette and establishing the direction of design exploration within various building systems.The Canada Line combines our ability to deliver eloquent solutions to complex technical problems with our commitment to city building at its most fundamental level.

King Edward:









41st Avenue:









49th Avenue:


----------



## nofriends

For the King Edward Station, would it be possible to build anything on top of the station building in the future?


----------



## officedweller

Yes, that's the plan.


----------



## officedweller

More Sea Island pics from the Canada Line website - they start assembling sections over the Arthur Laing Bridge tomorrow night:





































YVR media event (pouring of the last column @YVR, I think). 
Notice how narrow the column tops are for the single track guideway:



















This is the column (not sure why the ceremony - they still have station columns to build)


----------



## ssiguy2

Was on SkyTrain the other day. It was around 1pm and I got on at Granville and went to Broadway. By the time the train even reached me at Granville the train was packed, as usual. 
I understand there is an order of ne MK11 cars on the way in 2007. Will these new trains actually add lenghth to the current trains or just replace older 
MK1 trains. 
I read an artcle in the Sun that the SkyTrain between Main & Broadway are over capacity. Its not that its overcapacity but rather the trains are so small. Is there going to be an increase in the length of the trains?
I know right now the stations can carry 6 MK1 cars and 2 MK11 and the stations were designed to be easily converted to accomodate 8 MK11.


----------



## arashi_1987

Does anyone know about the situation for the number of exits each station will have? And where will they be exactly located? Will there be an exit inside Oakridge Centre (41st) without going outside first?

If anyone has any more details about any of the stations, please inform us 
I hope Translink has detailed plans for them here...


----------



## officedweller

Go to the Canada Line website. There are plans posted there from both the preliminary and the detailed public consultations held last year and earlier this year:

http://www.canadaline.ca/

Click on "Public Consultation" then look at the pdfs for the 1st and 2nd round of consultation - the 1st round has clearer scans.

Only Waterfront (2) and Vancouver City Centre (3?) will have multiple entrances to start. 
Oakridge's entrance will be to the plaza (better access to buses and at all hours), but the owner of the mall may build (and pay for) an underground connection. Check the plans to see if there is a "knock-out" panel.

*******

The new MKIIs will probably be used to create 4 car MKII trains. There are no current plans to lengthen the platforms (though they can be lengthened to hold an 8 car MKI train). The current 80 m Skytrain platforms can hold a 6 car MKI train or a 4 car MKII train (if we had any MKII "C" cars (mid-train cars) the platform would hold a 5 car MKII train).


----------



## officedweller

Found this pic of the Expo Line's new Granville Station passage. 
This is at the upper platform level. The passge to the left goes directly to the platform to Burrard. The stairs, elevator and escalator are to/from the lower eastbound platform (to Stadium). 

Note how the signs for the eastbound platform say "Eastbound - *Surrey*" as opposed to "*King George*" - that's a departure from convention.

Also strange is that I think up on street level, some of the font used for the wayfinding signs is like the yellow/blue M-Line sans-serif font, while the signs shown look here like the old style Expo Line serif font. 









Photo by Matt from MetroBlogging Vancouver

http://vancouver.metblogs.com/archives/2006/09/granville_skytrain_station_upd.phtml


----------



## mr.x

Enjoy!!!


----------



## officedweller

WOW - thanks! 
Note that the wye at Bridgeport Station uses a flyover/underpass system (like east of Columbia) rather than a level track crossing (like was proposed for the PMC Line at Lougheed).


----------



## OettingerCroat

@officedweller: all mkII cars should be either 3 or 5 carriages long, in my opinion, since u said that the current platforms can accomodate a 5 car MKII. and i mean all in one unit, not two short ones joined together. Just have 3-section or 5-section MKII's. that would look so awesome. and if the platform was extended, then you could have 6 or 7-section MKII's. :drool:


----------



## mr.x

officedweller said:


> WOW - thanks!
> Note that the wye at Bridgeport Station uses a flyover/underpass system (like east of Columbia) rather than a level track crossing (like was proposed for the PMC Line at Lougheed).


It looks like the flyover/underpasses near Bridgeport are too close to the station....it wouldn't allow for major platform extensions.


----------



## officedweller

OettingerCroat said:


> @officedweller: all mkII cars should be either 3 or 5 carriages long, in my opinion, since u said that the current platforms can accomodate a 5 car MKII. and i mean all in one unit, not two short ones joined together. Just have 3-section or 5-section MKII's. that would look so awesome. and if the platform was extended, then you could have 6 or 7-section MKII's. :drool:


Yeah - but currently Translink only has A and B units - cars with rounds ends - one front and one back that are linked in married pairs. There are not any plans to buy any C cars - middle cars that do not have the rounded ends. Because of the shape of the A and B cars and that they are married pairs, you cannot have an odd number of cars with the carriages that Translink currently has - it has to be by multiples of 2. 
Even if it bought the C cars, I think the 5 car trains would be A-B*A-C-B, which would give them the flexibility of decoupling the trains into shorter trains for off-peak service, rather than A-C-C-C-B (like in the Paris Meteor or in Hong Kong). It would be cool though if they ordered a lot of the C cars - I wonder if the C cars would be cheaper?

***

The switches on either side of Bridgeport station WILL limit the length of the platform extensions.


----------



## mr.x

> The switches on either side of Bridgeport station WILL limit the length of the platform extensions.


That's extremely poor planning.


----------



## ryanr

sweet, thanks for that mr. x no. 3 road is gonna be dense...wow.


----------



## officedweller

mr.x said:


> That's extremely poor planning.


From InTransitBC's perspective, they're just meeting the spec. No need to build in expensive extras that you don't need to.


----------



## arashi_1987

thanks! but unfortunately my computer is too slow to open all those PDFs, taking me forever...



officedweller said:


> Go to the Canada Line website. There are plans posted there from both the preliminary and the detailed public consultations held last year and earlier this year:
> 
> http://www.canadaline.ca/
> 
> Click on "Public Consultation" then look at the pdfs for the 1st and 2nd round of consultation - the 1st round has clearer scans.
> 
> Only Waterfront (2) and Vancouver City Centre (3?) will have multiple entrances to start.
> Oakridge's entrance will be to the plaza (better access to buses and at all hours), but the owner of the mall may build (and pay for) an underground connection. Check the plans to see if there is a "knock-out" panel.
> 
> *******
> 
> The new MKIIs will probably be used to create 4 car MKII trains. There are no current plans to lengthen the platforms (though they can be lengthened to hold an 8 car MKI train). The current 80 m Skytrain platforms can hold a 6 car MKI train or a 4 car MKII train (if we had any MKII "C" cars (mid-train cars) the platform would hold a 5 car MKII train).


----------



## officedweller

Then go to the Canada Line-specific thread in the Canada / BC forum - I think Mr. X posted a number of the pdfs in jpg form. Start at Page 7 and flip forward through the pages - esp. see pages 8, 9, 10 and 12.

http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=286568


----------



## OettingerCroat

officedweller said:


> Yeah - but currently Translink only has A and B units - cars with rounds ends - one front and one back that are linked in married pairs. There are not any plans to buy any C cars - middle cars that do not have the rounded ends. Because of the shape of the A and B cars and that they are married pairs, you cannot have an odd number of cars with the carriages that Translink currently has - it has to be by multiples of 2.
> Even if it bought the C cars, I think the 5 car trains would be A-B*A-C-B, which would give them the flexibility of decoupling the trains into shorter trains for off-peak service, rather than A-C-C-C-B (like in the Paris Meteor or in Hong Kong). It would be cool though if they ordered a lot of the C cars - I wonder if the C cars would be cheaper?


right this is what i meant, a ton of C cars like in paris or BART in SF.


----------



## mr.x

Why aren't we buying the C car?


----------



## ssiguy2

Any answers in regards to my question of new SkyTrain cars and how they will be used?


----------



## Plumber73

mr.x said:


> Why aren't we buying the C car?


Does it even exist?


----------



## mr.x

Plumber73 said:


> Does it even exist?


they do exist.


----------



## nname

ssiguy2 said:


> Any answers in regards to my question of new SkyTrain cars and how they will be used?


They will be used to add length, increase frequency on the M-Line (if Evergreen line ever got built), and increase the spare ratio to a "healthy" level. No MkI train is going to retire soon as they still have a good 10-15 years of life...


----------



## Plumber73

mr.x said:


> they do exist.


Where? In blueprint form or is there a city actually running them?


----------



## mrtfreak

Plumber73 said:


> Where? In blueprint form or is there a city actually running them?


They are being built for KL's Kelana Jaya line. The KJ line originally has 35 trains, in two car formation like Skytrain's MKIIs. They have ordered 13 new trains in 4 car formations. The system runs on the same technology and build as Skytrain. Delivery for the new cars is 2009-ish.


----------



## en

Is any smart card system going to be implemented for the opening of the Canada Line....even Seattle is getting a smart card system for their LRT


----------



## dchengg

en said:


> Is any smart card system going to be implemented for the opening of the Canada Line....even Seattle is getting a smart card system for their LRT


i wish we get the beeping card thing~~
because its cool first of all
and you know our current system,
the magnetic strip one..
its REALLY SLOW!


----------



## mr.x

Well, a smart card fare system for the entire network is in works in Translink.....the plan was to call the card the "Orca", but too bad Seattle stole our name.


----------



## Haber

mr.x said:


> Well, a smart card fare system for the entire network is in works in Translink.....the plan was to call the card the "Orca", but too bad Seattle stole our name.


They'll probably call it Salmon now, unless that's already taken as well


----------



## officedweller

Pic of the North Arm Bridge area:


----------



## spongeg

i drove past that cambie and marine drive the other night and the building is gone and most of the trees seemed to be gone too


----------



## mr.x

^ which building?


----------



## stanleycup

I think he means the ICBC centre. The last time I went by Cambie and Marine, I noticed that was gone.


----------



## spongeg

yeah the ICBC one - visible in the pic... where the clump of trees were - most of which are now gone


----------



## officedweller

The pic is dated Dec 16, 2006 - I think it's already gone in the pic.

Compare to this 2003 shot - no roof edges in the new pic:


----------



## alta-bc

I hope they will retain as many trees as possible on that old ICBC site.

It's becoming a bus loop, isn't it?


----------



## mr.x

alta-bc said:


> I hope they will retain as many trees as possible on that old ICBC site.
> 
> It's becoming a bus loop, isn't it?


yes it is.


----------



## alta-bc

A short portion of the Canada Line at YVR will be at grade because of a possible North South connecting taxiway for the two main runways.

Interesting thing is that the taxiway will actualy have to slope up (at a grade of 1.25%) to cross a bridge over the Canada Line and the access roads. I thought they would eventually have to drop the Canada Line and the roads down. I have never heard of sloping taxiways before... but that sure would look interesting!

Btw. this taxiway alone would cost $97 million according yvr.ca!


----------



## mr.x

^ only $97 million?!!! i would thing it'd be more. good find anyway.


----------



## officedweller

This what you can expect (I like this shot!) - this is in Singapore:










_Taxiway bridges 
The two taxiway bridges spanning Airport Boulevard were designed from day one to support A380 loading. However, jet blast deflector fins had to be added along the sides to shield public road users of the Airport Boulevard situated below from the jet blast emitted from the outboard engines of the A380, which stretched outside the bridge platform. The installation of such jet blast deflector fins has since been fully completed._


----------



## stanleycup

impressive. I really wish i can drive under the taxiway while an A380 is taxiing on it. So cool!!


----------



## alta-bc

> This what you can expect (I like this shot!) - this is in Singapore:!



Hmmmm.... I can't see the picture but I think I know which one you mean, it does look really cool. That one is a level taxiway though, the one at YVR will have to go up and over the Canada line and other roads. Probably soil conditions would make it difficult to have the roads and Canada line dip down under the taxiway. 

But I can't wait to ride the Canada Line in the front car to the airport as an A380, B747 or B777 passes over this taxiway! (hopefully they will actually build it)


----------



## alta-bc

The skytrain cars have steerable bogies to navigate sharp curves and to reduced "squeal" in curves. But between Main st. station and Broadway station, right at the Home Depot where the track makes a S curve, it is damn loud right now. I live about 2.5 km away from that section and I can hear it. Maybe the rails are getting old. Also, there are no noise shields along that section of track.


----------



## mr.x

alta-bc said:


> The skytrain cars have steerable bogies to navigate sharp curves and to reduced "squeal" in curves. But between Main st. station and Broadway station, right at the Home Depot where the track makes a S curve, it is damn loud right now. I live about 2.5 km away from that section and I can hear it. Maybe the rails are getting old. Also, there are no noise shields along that section of track.


Do you know if the Canada Line Rotem vehicles will have these "steerable bogies"?


----------



## mr.x

Photos by Fever

A couple very recent pictures of guideway construction near Bridgeport Station and then on Sea Island. You can sort of see how close the support is to the Arthur Laing approach.


----------



## spongeg




----------



## officedweller

Pic by Eric off Imagestation - Canada Line tunnel at 33rd Ave:


----------



## zivan56

From the same source as before:
New pics in Vancouver of the E60LFR (probably 100% same body is used for D60LFR minus trolley stuff and hump on top):


No more sitting in the middle?


----------



## mr.x

sorry, i can't see anything. you didn't upload it properly.


----------



## zivan56

mr.x said:


> sorry, i can't see anything. you didn't upload it properly.


It seems to be working properly...maybe the site was down for a while?


----------



## mr.x

^ awesome, it works now.


----------



## en

I recently dropped by the info office and found ths handout.

The Gantt chart for the project


----------



## mr.x

^ they have that on their website.


----------



## officedweller

Latest postcard - pics of the interior of the trains - it also says that the exterior colour scheme is under wraps and will be unveiled soon. The backwards facing seets in one of the pics looks like a poster mock-up.

http://www.canadaline.ca/uploads/NewsReleases/News319.pdf


----------



## en

I wonder why they don't use bench style seating, i.e. face to face seating.

Its good they don't have those useless curved handle bars like the Mark II trains (I wonder who thought of the practicality of that?)...


----------



## officedweller

People like to face front/back despite the lower capacity.


----------



## zivan56

^^ Yep. If I had to stare at someones face the whole time, I would rather just stand. Last thing I want to do after work is play "stare-down" on the train...


----------



## mr.x

i love it.

Thank god they're not going with the train exterior design that is on the website.


----------



## officedweller

I find it's easier to see out the windows when you stand. I tend to stand even if there's no real need to (mind you I don't ride very often). 

********

Hey, the outsides could be orange!


----------



## Overground

I'm still a proponent for "bench seating". Assuming these trains will be packed in the future, wouldn't having more space for standees only alleviate that? Is the comfort over not having to stare at somebody more important than practicality? Millions of commuters all over the world don't seem to have a problem with bench seating.

I know that the Line isn't supposed to be at capacity for years to come but surely some foresight is necessary. They will need to add more similar trains, at a significant cost, in the future but why not conform the public into using bench seating now? I'm not sure of the ratio between having mainly a bench style as opposed to the current one but every bit counts. On top of short platforms there just seems to be a lack of vision from Translink.


----------



## mr.x

^ i'm sure they could realign the seating when it needs to be done.


----------



## zivan56

The seat seem quite thick, they might be able to get some more room if they used the type found in the new buses. If you add up the extra thickness of the seats in the whole train, I am pretty sure you could fit more of those thinner ones. 
They could probably move them closer to the seat in front as well, as it looks like there is more than enough space to sit comfortably (or is this an optical illusion?)


----------



## officedweller

mr.x said:


> ^ i'm sure they could realign the seating when it needs to be done.


Agreed. The cars tend to get refurbished every so often. 
The MKI Skytrain cars originally had 4 seats across at the ends - now its 3 seats (2 on one side and one on the other). They only have bench seating in the middle because equipment located under the seats doesn't allow transverse seating. 
Plus they used to have carpet in them, remember?


----------



## mr.x

^ LMAO......carpet???


----------



## alta-bc

mr.x said:


> ^ LMAO......carpet???


Oh yes, carpet. I remember that. And you had to take your shoes off before entering. Well it didn't go that far but as you can imagine, the carpeting got very dirty and gum was permanently embedded in it. Also, the doors used to have buttons you had to push for them to open. You can still see where they used to be inside the train, they are now covered up by metal plates.


----------



## officedweller

And a button on the outside of the door to push if you wanted to enter (and no one was exiting) - both measures intended to save on power.


----------



## dchengg

officedweller said:


> And a button on the outside of the door to push if you wanted to enter (and no one was exiting) - both measures intended to save on power.


OHHHHHh so thats what its meant..
i thought they were like if the doors closed on you
you press it and it would open back up or something like that..
but something special about the MK I's is that
when it starts up,
it makes this noise
its like a steam train starting up..

--------------------
btw.. how come vancouver makes their transportation not spacious as if
it may be a advantage for them..
for example,
more space = more passengers = more profit


----------



## spongeg

> *Transit crisis deepens *
> 
> Buses may be leased from other parts of B.C. to put more rubber on the road in a fresh bid to ease transit congestion that has hit extreme levels.
> 
> “We’re trying to find if there’s buses West Vancouver can loan us for a bit or Vancouver Island,” Coast Mountain Bus Co. spokesman Doug McDonald said, adding the aim is to get more buses and improve service by April.
> 
> Four buses have already been borrowed – two each from Abbotsford and Chilliwack – and more sources of surplus buses will be investigated.
> 
> The rare move to seek outside help comes amid rising complaints of long waits and frustrating commutes because there aren’t enough buses and new ones arriving aren’t keeping pace with increasing ridership and the need to retire old vehicles.
> 
> “We went through a real crisis in the last couple of months at least,” McDonald said, adding the vehicle shortage was compounded by bad winter weather, delays due to Canada Line construction and now problems that have forced 39 new electric trolley buses off the road.
> 
> “We’ve had some real significant holes in the service.”
> 
> Proof of the transit troubles is in the number of “pass-ups” happening.
> 
> Those are incidents where a driver with an already full bus no longer makes stops, cruising past would-be riders at the curb with perhaps a grimace or an apologetic wave.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Full buses drove past passengers on nearly 2,000 occasions in Surrey last year. _
> 
> The latest statistics show that in 2006, bus drivers across the region reported a staggering 19,000 pass-ups.
> 
> Although Vancouver had the largest number of pass-ups – 8,454 – it’s considered less serious there because bus service is much more frequent. TransLink officials liken a pass-up there more to the minor inconvenience of missing a green light trying to drive through an intersection.
> 
> In the rest of the region, where service is slower, pass-ups can add up to waits that drag on for hours for angry transit users.
> 
> Coast Mountain statistics show pass-ups were worst as a percentage of service in Richmond, where 4,454 were recorded.
> 
> Burnaby drivers recorded 3,305 pass-ups last year. Nearly 2,000 were measured in Surrey. And there were 686 for North Vancouver buses and 536 for buses based out of Port Coquitlam.
> 
> Union reps say the figures are well below the true magnitude of the problem, noting drivers are sometimes told to stop reporting pass-ups on particularly harried days.
> 
> And they say the pass-up stats also don’t take into account when a scheduled run is cancelled altogether – as has been happening with 10 to 20 runs per day in Surrey in recent weeks.
> 
> In those cases, the bus never does show up – full or otherwise – and waiting passengers are just left to wonder what happened.
> 
> Passengers sometimes take out their frustrations on drivers – the number of assaults on them hit a new high of more than 200 last year.
> 
> Local politicians, like Surrey Mayor Dianne Watts, say they’re under pressure to help transit-dependent commuters.
> 
> “They can’t count on the bus being on time,” she said. “It’s absolutely unacceptable.”
> 
> Watts invited union reps for the drivers to meet with Surrey councillors last week and says she’ll push TransLink for answers and improvement.
> 
> And if equipment shortages aren’t enough, the bus company is often short of drivers and mechanics. Coast Mountain is planning to recruit and train 1,000 more drivers.
> 
> But Gavin Davies, union rep for bus drivers based in Surrey, says the staff shortage is worsening every week because more drivers are opting to retire early rather than continue to work under extreme pressure and often abuse.
> 
> “They’ve had enough,” Davies said. “They don’t have enough money to retire, but they can’t take it any more.”
> 
> Those drivers often keep working – but for another employer.
> 
> “They go to drive a school bus or pick up golf balls at a driving range,” he said.
> 
> Transit trouble tales abound
> 
> With many people rethinking their driving habit in the face of climate change fears, high gas prices and worsening traffic congestion, it’s not the most opportune time for transit troubles.
> 
> But residents who are trying to park their cars say they’re being stymied by TransLink’s service.
> 
> “I can’t count how many no-shows I’ve had to endure,” Arthur Laskowski wrote on a web site dedicated to transit serving White Rock. “We need more buses, more often – at least as a starting point.”
> 
> Langley resident Alf Leake said he had to recently wait three and a half hours trying to commute by bus from Surrey Central station to Aldergrove.
> 
> He said the incident was blamed on a breakdown, but said it underscores the lack of spare buses in the system.
> 
> “It is ridiculous that when there is a mechanical issue on the bus, there is no replacement,” he said.
> 
> The bus shortage also recently disrupted transportation for students at some high schools.
> 
> Coast Mountain had to cancel a special “school tripper” run to Kwantlen Park Secondary School in Surrey because the bus was needed elsewhere.
> 
> Smaller community shuttles couldn’t handle student volume, forcing students to either walk or more often get rides.
> 
> “We’re not going to have our kids walking from there through the Gateway area or downtown Whalley’s crack alley to get home,” said Bolivar Park resident Skip Angus.
> 
> Service was restored the next week, but Angus said many students and parents still won’t use it because they can’t trust it.
> 
> “It’s just a farce,” he said.
> 
> TransLink spokesman Ken Hardie said the run had to be cancelled because the bus was needed for other congested routes.
> 
> “We’ve had similar problems in Coquitlam,” he added.
> 
> In some cases, Hardie said, the transit system upgraded school runs to full-sized buses to pick up the slack for bus service formerly provided by school districts.
> 
> “It’s nice to be able to provide these special trips to schools but in some cases we’re doing it in areas the school system used to provide buses and has pulled out,” Hardie said. “But they are difficult to sustain when the system itself is short of buses.”


http://www.surreyleader.com/


----------



## officedweller

dchengg said:


> but something special about the MK I's is that
> when it starts up,
> it makes this noise
> its like a steam train starting up..
> 
> --------------------
> btw.. how come vancouver makes their transportation not spacious as if
> it may be a advantage for them..
> for example,
> more space = more passengers = more profit


The noise is from the power converters - the MKIIs don't use the same equipment, so don't make the noise.

The size of the vehicles is just due to the technology selected. It was also an advantage in re-using the existing Dunsmuir Tunnel - the width of the smaller cars fit without widening it. The tunnel was just heightened (floor dug deeper) to fit two guideways stacked.


----------



## officedweller

Not sure how it would do as a P3, but that's what they want to try.


*Government guarantees Evergreen Line but TransLink is short money*
Friday, February 23 - 06:30:00 AM

Reaon Ford/Vancouver Sun
VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - After months of nasty debate, the Provincial Government is finally offering a guarantee about the Evergreen Line. Transport Minister Kevin Falcon says the rapid-transit project to the Tri-Cities will be built but the only question is how TransLink will pay for it.

The answer will be private money. TransLink has submitted a new business case to Partnerships BC, which is a body that helps set up private involvement in public projects. Falcon has been pushing a so called P3 to build the line since the start. TransLink is short more than $400 million in funding, which is almost half of the project's overall cost.


----------



## mr.x

Canada Line guideway at YVR from a couple of weeks ago (from flickr):


----------



## officedweller

Took a drive around Grant MacConachie Way the other day to have a look. The guideway looks to gradually rise in elevation as it approaches the terminal building (rather than rising from grade and levelling off)


----------



## officedweller

New Global Air Photos - dated Jan 30th

http://www.globalairphotos.com/gallery/BC/Vancouver/South/2007/1
http://www.globalairphotos.com/gallery/BC/Richmond/North


----------



## officedweller

New pics at the website:

Cambie Village and Cambie & 12th:




























Yaletown Roundhouse Station:



















Vancouver City Centre Station:

Dec 2006









Feb 2007









Waterfront Station




























Middle Arm Bridge:


----------



## officedweller

Very cool renderings of the YVR2 - Sea Island Centre Station at the Walter Francl website - go to transit projects under Portfolio:

http://www.wfrancl.com/main.htm


----------



## mr.x

Sea Island Centre Station


----------



## officedweller

Thanks for posting.


----------



## officedweller

The Tunnel Boring Machine has broken through at Vancouver City Centre Station (southbound tunnel) - pic in the Province.

The article said it will take 6 days to traverse the open pit of the staion and will then get to Pender Street by the end of April, then be dismantled and shipped back to the 2nd Ave. site to start the northbound tunnel.


----------



## officedweller

Pics of the TBM breaking through at Vancouver City Centre Station (southbound tunnel) from the Canada Line website:


----------



## mr.x

Tunnel boring machine at Vancouver City Centre Station


----------



## officedweller

Latest postcard:


----------



## mr.x

*FALCON TO RADICALLY CHANGE TRANSLINK MANAGEMENT*

Canada.com | March 07, 2007

VICTORIA — The provincial government will radically alter the management of public transit and roadways in the Lower Mainland by scrapping the current TransLink transportation authority that it has called “dysfunctional.”

In the next few weeks B.C. Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon will introduce sweeping legislation that will create a “Council of Mayors”, who will be asked to oversee all transit decisions. The government will tell the mayors to come up with a 10-year, integrated plan for an area stretching from Pemberton to Chilliwack.

In a news conference Thursday, Falcon will also say that to make sure that bold plan actually happens, the government will also create a 11-member, full-time “Professional Board” with the expertise in law, accounting, finance and transit planning to oversee the system’s management on a day-to-day basis.

A report commissioned by a panel appointed by the government has found that under the current situation, TransLink would chalk up a $200-million deficit annually by 2013. The new government plan would end that sea of red ink by giving the TransLink authority new revenue streams. It is also contemplating allowing the authority to develop land around rail stations and major transit hubs, not unlike private transit companies in Hong Kong, to cash in on the lucrative spike in real estate that usually happens when transit is developed.

To keep TransLink from being too ambitious in the costs it passes along to the public, however, the government will set up an “Independent Commissioner” to review such things as fare hikes and make sure that local land-use plans are followed.

The TransLink board that now exists will stay in place until the new legislation takes effect, in the autumn.

The government’s move follows years of tension between the province and local governments, who are often at odds about how, where and when to build up transportation infrastructure.

Set up by the New Democratic Party in 1999, theoretically to give local government more say and independence on the planning of transportation and mass transit, TransLink has always been conflicted, caught between local politics and the demands of the province.

The NDP government, for example, had to overrule TranslLnk's attempts to impose a vehicle levy -that is tolls - as a source off revenue for the new projects it was supposed to build. The Liberals have similarly intervened, such as when Falcon scuttled TransLink’s suggestion of tolls on existing infrastructure as a way to pay for new projects.

But that leaves TransLink in a bind.

How can it raise money for projects, such as the $970 million Evergreen light rail line from Burnaby to Coquitlam, without major new revenue streams?

TransLink, for example, was more than $400 million short for the Evergreen line but the provincial government would not pump in more money, suggesting that a private-public partnership — the so-called P3s — was the way to raise the needed funds.

TransLink -- officially, the Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority -- manages the transit stem, some provincial highways and bridges as well as major municipal roads that carry traffic across municipal boundaries.

It had a major long-term expansion strategy including a major bus fleet expansion, several new rapid transit lines and a lot of regional road improvements.

Operations were to be funded from fares, the share of property taxes that used to go to hospitals, a share of provincial fuel taxes, a small levy on Hydro bills and -- potentially -- a few other things like parking taxes.

Major expansion was to be paid for from a new vehicle levy - about $70 a year - on every motor vehicle in the region. But the vehicle levy was political dynamite and a lot of local politicians, especially in Surrey, fought against it.

It never got implemented.

The province dithered for a time, then the NDP government backed away from the issue in the run-up to the 2001 election. That forced TransLink into drastic cutbacks on an expansion program it had already begun, and led directly to a long transit strike in 2001.

That cost George Puil, TransLink's founding chairman, his seat on Vancouver council the next municipal election when public anger over the strike was directed at him.

Nothing has ever surfaced to replace the vehicle levy.

Consequently TransLink is far behind on plans to expand the bus fleet, build more rapid transit, and carry out more maintenance work.

TransLink maintains it has done well under difficult circumstances.

But Falcon, who believes that TransLink is parochial and poorly run, has expressed little patience. Here’s what he said in a recent Vancouver Sun Interview:

"With the current fiscal plan that TransLink has in place today and the current projects they have in the pipeline, they are going to start significant deficits in '09, and they will essentially be bankrupt by 2012.

So the whole organization is not financially sustainable.

“They can't go forward like this,” he added. “They're lurching forward, adding new projects without putting the financing mechanisms into place, and they run off and do things like parking stall taxes etc., and it's a combination . . . that is filling the public with a deep sense of unease and lack of confidence in their ability to carry these things forward."

But the province, which prefers not to be directly linked to the thorny issues of solving gridlock and fixing eroding infrastructure, has also never really engaged fully with TransLink.

There are supposed to be three provincial representatives on the TransLink board. Yet those seats have never been filled, likely because all the local directors would have looked to the provincial appointees for policy direction and funding for projects. One of TransLink's arguments is that if the province had appointed its three directors, they would have been able to swing all the controversial, close decisions that Falcon was so frustrated with in the province's preferred directions.


----------



## en

Vancouver bus info signs 'duds'
Last Updated: Thursday, March 8, 2007 | 4:13 PM PT 
CBC News 

TransLink admits the electronic information signs at stops along a major bus route between downtown Vancouver and Richmond don't work, can't be fixed and could soon be gone.

The digital signs along the 98 B-line between downtown Vancouver and Richmond are supposed to let people waiting at the bus stop know when the next bus will arrive.
The digital bus signs along the Vancouver-Richmond bus route don't work, TransLink officials admit.
(CBC) 

The signs, which are linked to a GPS system on the buses, haven't been working for the past week, freezing up and requiring frequent reboots.

"The signs at the bus stops have been duds," said TransLink spokesman Ken Hardie, adding the company that installed the system said it cannot be fixed.

"This system unfortunately just has never worked properly. Siemens has basically thrown up its hands and say they can't make it work."

Hardie said the GPS part of the system is working, and will continue to be used to hold green lights if buses are running late.
Continue Article


Officials haven't decided whether to continue to reboot the signs, or turn them off altogether. 

Translink has already spent $30 million for a new system to provide real-time estimates on other major bus routes throughout Greater Vancouver.

It's expected to be installed by August, and Hardie said he is confident the new system will work better than the old one.

---

Sad, more taxpayer's money wasted, when it worked, it wasn't even accurate. Lots of other cities in Asia can do it properly, I wonder why Vancouver can't. More Translink incompetence...


----------



## officedweller

New pics (undated) from the Canada Line website:

Area around Cambie & 33rd (The Rock):
http://www.canadaline.ca/gallery.asp?galleryGroup=55&CurrPage=1


----------



## officedweller

Richmond guideway pics (Bridgeport & No. 3 Rd) posted by The Henry Man over at SSP:


----------



## Plumber73

RAV (Richmond, Airport, Vancouver) line made a lot more sence.


----------



## zivan56

^^ I still call it RAV Line and encourage others to do the same. For $400 million, which is not even half the cost, they seem like a minor investor...and should have no say in what it's called. Besides, they aren't the ones that have to live with the name...


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## mr.x

I'd say the Olympic Line. We built our first SkyTrain Line in time for the 1986 World's Fair, thus it was called the Expo Line. Then we built our second line for and named it after the new Millennium. Why not Olympic Line when we're hosting one of the world's largest sporting events?


----------



## mr.x




----------



## mr.x

*THESE HAVE ALSO BEEN ADDED IN THE FIRST PAGE TOPICS.*




The same train being used on another automated rapid transit rail line in South Korea.











Canada Line tunnel boring machine, "Sweet Leilani"












Station travel times map


----------



## alta-bc

mr.x said:


> I'd say the Olympic Line. We built our first SkyTrain Line in time for the 1986 World's Fair, thus it was called the Expo Line. Then we built our second line for and named it after the new Millennium. Why not Olympic Line when we're hosting one of the world's largest sporting events?


Because it is not an olympic project, if it were to be called Olympic Line, Vanoc would probably sue Translink, Intransit and anybody associated with the project by six degrees.:nuts:


----------



## alta-bc

I think now that we will have three lines, they should be numbered and color coded just like any other metro system. Expo Line = Line 1, blue, Millenium Line = Line 2, yellow, Canada Line = Line 3, red.
But I do agree that since they are being given names, Olympic Line would be more appropriate since it's marking a significant event, just like the Expo Fair and the turning of the Millenium.


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## Plumber73

The problem with that is if you built a new line during a time without any significant event, then you're screwed.


----------



## mr.x

alta-bc said:


> Because it is not an olympic project, if it were to be called Olympic Line, Vanoc would probably sue Translink, Intransit and anybody associated with the project by six degrees.:nuts:


Of course not.

Grouse Mountain asked VANOC to apply for permission from the IOC to name its newest lift the "Olympic Express". The "Olympic Village Station" also got permission from the IOC. In China, one of their new subways is called the "Olympic Line".

The IOC would've given the green light for us as well.





> The problem with that is if you built a new line during a time without any significant event, then you're screwed.


There are plenty of other names. Terry Fox Line (would've been great for NES), Pacific Line, etc.


----------



## Plumber73

mr.x said:


> There are plenty of other names. Terry Fox Line (would've been great for NES), Pacific Line, etc.


My point exactly. No need to stick strictly with tributes to big events like Expo or the Olympics.


----------



## dchengg

hehe..
stupid names
not just hte name "olympic" but also other words that RELATES to it..
how cruel eh..?


----------



## Natron4050

But what of the 40m platforms? Mr. X, you seem to be in the know. Any idea? Seems sort sighted to build such short platforms on an underground line, considering the trains are supposed to be of approximately the same length off the bat. I realize that Vancouver tends to go with the strategy of short trains/high frequency, but it seems disappointingly limited. Any ideas on the matter?


----------



## mr.x

Natron4050 said:


> But what of the 40m platforms? Mr. X, you seem to be in the know. Any idea? Seems sort sighted to build such short platforms on an underground line, considering the trains are supposed to be of approximately the same length off the bat. I realize that Vancouver tends to go with the strategy of short trains/high frequency, but it seems disappointingly limited. Any ideas on the matter?


Well, I learned this from other forumers....the Canada Line was originally planned to be tunnel bored for the entire Vancouver stretch. When SNC-Lavalin submitted their bid, they proposed to build most of the Vancouver tunnel by cut & cover since it would be cheaper (since construction materials and labour costs are skyrocketing right now due to Chinese and heavy local demand) and there would be less risk of the project opening late behind schedule. Right now, the project is $400 million overbudget - but any construction overrun is the responsibility of the private contractor, SNC-Lavalin. The deadline to open the line for revenue service is November 29, 2009 and that's just a little over 2 months until the 2010 Winter Olympics on February 12.

Because they are now digging shallower, because of cut & cover, and since this isn't flat land the slope rises quite significantly (500 feet over 6 kms i think), short-platforms would have to be built. If longer platforms were built, cut & cover tunnel trenches would have to be deeper or tunnel boring would have to be required. Therefore, we have 40/50 metre station platforms. The existing two SkyTrain lines, the Expo and the Millennium, both have 80 metre platforms and are expandable to 100 metres.

Some are saying when the Canada Line is at overcapacity, we could either dig up the line, dig deeper and build longer platforms. But note that means expensive massive tunnel fans would also have to be relocated and built as they are located at the portals of each station. OR we could build another north-south LRT line on a rail corridor, Arbutus corridor, that is located about 2 kms west of the Canada Line. Right now, that corridor has streetcar plans. But before, it was considered for the Canada Line route.

I honestly doubt the Canada Line would meet the demands of this region by 2025. The projected ridership in 2010 after it opens is 100,000 daily and about 145,000 in 2020. The current population of the GVRD is 2.2 million, but will be 3 million by 2020. Downtown Vancouver, the northern terminus of the Canada Line, is expected to reach a population of 150,000 by 2020 from 100,000 today and Richmond City Centre has a current population of 50,000 but is expected to grow to 150,000 by 2030. Already, we are seeing densification and many condo tower projects along the line, particularly in Richmond. Not to mention the airport is suppose to see some significant growth: currently employing 30,000 and set to employ 45,000 by 2020 with further terminal expansion from 17 million passsengers today to 25 million or more by 2020. But we can only wait and see what actually happens.....


----------



## officedweller

mr.x said:


> Because they are now digging shallower, because of cut & cover, and since this isn't flat land the slope rises quite significantly (500 feet over 6 kms i think), short-platforms would have to be built. If longer platforms were built, cut & cover tunnel trenches would have to be deeper or tunnel boring would have to be required. Therefore, we have 40/50 metre station platforms. The existing two SkyTrain lines, the Expo and the Millennium, both have 80 metre platforms and are expandable to 100 metres.


Yup - that's my take on it too. 

The only thing I might add is that the specifications in the Request for Proposals did not specify a particular platform length, nor require the ability to expand the platforms. The RFP specified an ultimate capacity of 15,000 ppdph, and left it up to the proposer to devise a system that meets that requirement - the InTransitBC bid meets that capacity requirement. 

In addition, if the tunnel was bored the stations would be deeper and more expensive too. Plus, the cut and cover allows them to work at different sections of the line simultaneously - allowing them to meet the tight schedule without buying more than one boring machine.


----------



## alta-bc

I think the 3P factor has a lot to do with the decision to build short platforms. CLCO (Translink) sets the design requirements and then InTransitBC, a fully private company, designs and builds the line according to those requirements. Since InTransitBC is fully responsible for any cost overruns, it is understandable that they will try to cut corners as much as they can without going below the requirements set by CLCO. InTransitBC doesn't care if the platforms are too short in 20 years, because they have met the minimum requirements. They are responsible for the smooth operation of the line for 35 years and are paid accordingly, but if overcrowding becomes a problem, InTransitBC can just point back to the original requirements.

I also wonder if CLCO lowballed the ridership estimate, knowing that it would be cheaper to build and more likely for the whole project to get approved.


----------



## officedweller

If anything, the ridership estimate would have been low in response to cries from opponents that the the predicted ridership would not materialize (i.e. in case the ridership is lower than predicted it wouldn't be as much of an embarassment). 
There are, however, extensive ridership studies by a third party consultant posted at the Canada Line website - the reading of which makes your head spin.

******

I suspect that if InTransitBC hadn't adopted the design it did, we wouldn't have gotten a bid remotely close to the funding envelope. Apparently Bombardier's bid was substantially higher (maybe longer platforms due to narrower Skytrain cars?) and included less tunnel and an undesirable open trench on south Cambie. As it is, the project scope has to be massaged to lower the cost and InTransitBC accepted more funding responsibility (it found more financial backing).


----------



## alta-bc

officedweller said:


> If anything, the ridership estimate would have been low in response to cries from opponents that the the predicted ridership would not materialize (i.e. in case the ridership is lower than predicted it wouldn't be as much of an embarassment).


This is an after the fact scenario. I don't think Translink is worried too much about that because the line would be built and there isn't much one can do about it then. The ridership will always eventually meet and exceed the predictions.
I think it all boils down to money (as it often does) and Translink's insistence to push this project through.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm loving this project, I follow it very closely and I can't wait to ride on it.


----------



## Vancouverite

I'm my opinion the bid process was deeply flawed and it put the rights of the non-Bombardier companies ahead of the public. Bombardier was explicitly forbidden from incorporating cost savings in its bid that would flow from integration with the existing SkyTrain network. They could not factor in the benefits of simplified supply, operations, and repair infrastructure, nor the potential to increase capacity by diverting cars from the Expo/Millennium Lines. In other words, they were prohibited from presenting the true value of the Bombardier bid. It is madness.


----------



## LosAngelesMetroBoy

why does the TBM look like its coming out into a flooded pit when it did the breakthru into downtown station? IM actually curious,i have no real clue how TBMs work other than a giant rotating cutting face


----------



## Vancouverite

The white liquid is some sort of lubricant that helps keep control the temperature of the cutting face and also suspends the bored material so that it can be pumped out of the tunnel. Someone with some technical knowledge may know the name of the liquid and some additional properties.


----------



## bs_lover_boy

Richmond's Progress today (sorry, no pics)

Column erection: Outside of "Also" resturant, in about 2 weeks time, it should arrive at Parker Place

Guideways: Outside of Yaohan Centre, it should cross the entrance (No. 3 Road) of Yaohan Centre by the end or beginning of next week.


----------



## bs_lover_boy

Daguy said:


> Does anyone think/know if it is likely that the line may be extended south of its planned terminus on No. 3 road in the future?


I don't think the Canada Line would be extended further South, but I do think that the City is visioning a streetcar linking Richmond City Centre and Steveston.


----------



## officedweller

New pics from the Canada Line website:

The TBM being re-assembled, in preparation for its second pass, at the Canada Line's 2nd Avenue work site.









Beginning stages of the King Edward Station platform (on the left) on the east side of Cambie Street at King Edward.


----------



## allurban

Hi Vancouverites.

I wanted to get a comparison of numbers...between Vancouver and KL.

how is the Millenium line running these days in terms of peak hour frequency and passenger numbers (pphpd) ? What about the total number of passengers carried per day?

Cheers, m


----------



## mr.x

allurban said:


> Hi Vancouverites.
> 
> I wanted to get a comparison of numbers...between Vancouver and KL.
> 
> how is the Millenium line running these days in terms of peak hour frequency and passenger numbers (pphpd) ? What about the total number of passengers carried per day?
> 
> Cheers, m


According to another forumer:



> Regarding capacity, the _initial_ capacity of the Expo SkyTrain Line was to be 25,000 people per direction per hour, for a total of 50,000 people bi-directional per hour. The manifestation of this prescribed maximum capacity can be found in station length and the minimum headways allowed by the moving block train control software. SkyTrain is only now, apparently, in the neighbourhood of 16,000 ppd/h along the combined Expo & Millennium Line from Waterfront to Columbia due to the addition of the Mk2 cars for the Millennium Line with the next order of 32 cars by 2009. Now I emphasized "initial" earlier because the moving block software that controls the movement of trains and their maximum headways has been upgraded several times and a new system of secondary radio positioning antennas were added last year (the posts and wires on the side of the guideway just outside after the stations) to increase the precision of computer control. The result has been a significant reduction in maximum headways since SkyTrain entered service for Expo. I do not know the exact numbers but I believe the "original" SkyTrain had a maximum headway of two minutes while I have personally timed the current SkyTrain operating with as little as 45 seconds of headway during rush hour. Where these software and hardware puts the theoretical system capacity is anyone's guess but I would hazard to guess that with a sufficient trainset SkyTrain could easily double and perhaps triple the current 16,000 people per directional per hour.


I would think this also applies to the Millennium Line as well as it too, like the Expo Line, has 80 metre platforms. I don't know about pphpd on the M-Line, but I do know the peak frequency is 5-6 minutes with a daily ridership of about 70,000. The Expo Line on the other hand has a ridership of 180,000 daily.


----------



## allurban

mr.x said:


> According to another forumer:
> 
> I don't know about pphpd on the M-Line, but I do know the peak frequency is 5-6 minutes with a daily ridership of about 70,000. The Expo Line on the other hand has a ridership of 180,000 daily.


Thanks...if anyone has more information, please let me know....I think that about 16,000 ppdph is what Id expected...

does the m-line run 4 car trainsets yet? And what is the maximum passenger capacity a 2-car ART Mark II trainset? I keep on getting confusing numbers here in KL.

KL is only running the 2 car trains. Peak frequency ought to be 2 minutes, but Ive seen the trains come every 90 seconds some days.

Assuming 250 people in a packed train and 90 second frequency (40 trains per hour), that would be 10,000 pphpd.

Pretty low compared to Vancouver....

One newspaper said that the LRT was carrying 30,000 passengers per day :banana: hahaha at a cost of RM150mn per km it's the deal of the century....hahaha

Cheers, m


----------



## mr.x

> does the m-line run 4 car trainsets yet? And what is the maximum passenger capacity a 2-car ART Mark II trainset? I keep on getting confusing numbers here in KL.


we run both 2 and 4-car Mark II trains. One MKII car can hold 130 passengers, so a two-car train has a capacity of 260 passengers and a 4-car is 520 passengers.


----------



## officedweller

More pics from the Canada Line website:

Elevated guideway construction from Bridgeport Station to the Middle Arm Bridge.



























Elevated guideway construction along No. 3 Road from Sea Island Way to north of Cambie Road.









North Arm Bridge construction in the Fraser River.



























Foundation and column work on Cambie Street south of S.W. Marine Drive.









Mainland vehicle bridge over Yaletown-Roundhouse Station excacation. (Please note this bridge is for vehicle traffic only. No pedestrians are permitted on the bridge.)









Waterfront Station construction on Granville Street south of Cordova Street.









The TBM being re-assembled, in preparation for its second pass, at the Canada Line's 2nd Avenue work site.


----------



## allurban

mr.x said:


> we run both 2 and 4-car Mark II trains. One MKII car can hold 130 passengers, so a two-car train has a capacity of 260 passengers and a 4-car is 520 passengers.


thanks alot...so I guess my numbers were about correct....

260 passengers/train x 40 trains per hour is not much more than 10,000 pphpd but then they will be doubling capacity soon with the purchase of the 4 car trains....

Oh, are the 4-car mark II trains run as coupled 2-car sets or complete 4-car trainsets? Any photos or sources you can refer me to?

the problem here in KL is that the LRT is running at relatively low capacity, and so are the buses (inconsistent, blocked by traffic, etc)....but there is no transit mode being used in between buses and LRT....

Thanks for the info.

Cheers, m


----------



## mrtfreak

allurban said:


> thanks alot...so I guess my numbers were about correct....
> 
> 260 passengers/train x 40 trains per hour is not much more than 10,000 pphpd but then they will be doubling capacity soon with the purchase of the 4 car trains....
> 
> Oh, are the 4-car mark II trains run as coupled 2-car sets or complete 4-car trainsets? Any photos or sources you can refer me to?
> 
> the problem here in KL is that the LRT is running at relatively low capacity, and so are the buses (inconsistent, blocked by traffic, etc)....but there is no transit mode being used in between buses and LRT....
> 
> Thanks for the info.
> 
> Cheers, m


The run it as 2 pairs of 2-car ART MK II trains. To my knowledge, the ART MK IIs do not have the C-cars that are being built for the PUTRA system. Daily ridership of PUTRA is quite possible to hit 30,000 though. Imagine what can be done with 4-car trains.

By the way, fantastic pictures of the Canada line construction.


----------



## mr.x

North Arm Bridge construction in the Fraser River.


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## mr.x

http://best.bc.ca/currentIssues/cambie/


*Cambie Street Bike Lanes
*
The reconstruction following Canada Line construction is a tremendous opportunity to transform Cambie Street from highway into a bicycle and pedestrian-friendly community street.

In November, 2006, after approving bike lanes from 49th Avenue to Kent Street, Vancouver City council directed city staff to examine the possibility of bike lanes from 49th Avenue to the north side of the Cambie Street Bridge. The staff report being presented to Council on June 12 (http://www.vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20070612/documents/tt3_CambieBikeLanes.pdf) only recommends northbound bike lanes from 49th Avenue to 29th Avenue. There would be no southbound bicycle lanes north of 49th Avenue.

The main concerns staff raised was that to create bike lanes on the remainder of Cambie Street would require the lost of parking, the loss of a travel lane or expensive road widening. From King Edward Avenue to the Cambie Street Bridge, there is not enough width to widen Cambie Street for bike lanes. To create space for bike lanes in this section, either a lane of traffic or parking will have to be reallocated. The preferred option is the reallocation of a lane of traffic as this will decrease traffic speeds and volumes creating a safer and more pleasant pedestrian and cycling environment.

Such a reallocation of road space will encourage more people to use the Canada Line and thus ensuring this $2 billion project meets is ridership and revenue goals. As well, the City’s Ecodensity initiative (http://www.vancouver-ecodensity.ca/) should also help reduce motor vehicle use and thus the need for travel lanes on Cambie Street.

Such road diets have been used successfully implemented on street around North America (http://www.walkable.org/download/rdiets.pdf), including Columbia Street in New Westminster, to improve the quality of life for shoppers and residents and increase the safety of motorists, pedestrians and cyclists. [1]

With less pollution and noise, people will be more likely to walk along Cambie Street and enjoy eating or drinking in outdoor patios. Cambie Street would feel much more like Robson Street than a freeway. This improved streetscape will encourage people to walk along Cambie Street from the Canada Line stations at Broadway and King Edward.

Such bold measures are required if we are to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and the impacts of climate change.



----------------------------------------------------------------
Please contact Mayor Sullivan and Council regarding Cambie Street Bike Lanes.

[email protected]


Further contact information can be found at: http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/councilmembers.htm

If you can, please address Vancouver City Council regarding bike lanes on Cambie at the following meeting:
Standing Committee of Council on Transportation and Traffic

http://www.vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20070612/tt20070612.htm

Tuesday, June 12, 2007

9:30 a.m.

Council Chamber

For information, or to register to speak, please call Pat Boomhower, Meeting Coordinator at 604.873.7015, [email protected]



----------------------------------------------------------------


*Cambie Street Configuration*

With one lane of traffic reallocated for bike lanes, the remaining three lanes would allow for either:

- One lane in each direction with centre median and left turn bays
- Two lanes in one direction and one lane of traffic in the other 

Full time bike lanes would require parking be maintained all day thus there will be amply parking for the customers of Cambie Street merchants. Since parking would not be stripped during rush hour, pedestrian bulges can be constructed both to improve pedestrian safety and decrease crossing times. A center median would allow for trees or plants.
Flex Zone

One innovative option would be to create a flex zone where the parking area is at the same level as the sidewalk. Merchants can then choose if they want the space in front of their business to be used as parking or more sidewalk patio space. Vancouver City Council recently approved a flex zone for Granville Street from Smith to the Granville Bridge.[2] Trees, plants and street furniture could further enhance the street environment. While a flex zone is not required for the bike lanes, it would improve the character of the Cambie Street.

One Lane in Each Direction and a Centre Median and Left Turn Bays









One Lane in Direction and Two Lanes in the Other


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## mr.x

*Tunnel Boring Machine Begins Second Pass*

Canada Line crews are reassembling and testing the Tunnel Boring Machine (TBM) in preparation for boring the second of two side-by-side tunnels from False Creek to the Waterfront Station area. The TBM is scheduled to begin
its second underground journey this weekend and should arrive at the Waterfront Station area in the spring of 2008.

The TBM will begin boring the second tunnel at the 2nd Avenue False Creek Site and travel north under False Creek to Yaletown-Roundhouse Station, to Vancouver City Centre Station and complete its journey at the TBM exit area
just south of Waterfront Station in Vancouver. For a route map and photos of the TBM completing the first tunnel, please visit the Canada Line web site at
www.canadaline.ca.

*Underground Activity*

Tunnel boring activity is scheduled to occur 24-hours a day, seven days a week, until the TBM has reached the exit area at Granville Street and W. Pender Street. There will be periods of time where the TBM cannot stop its underground operation, such as when it passes through the open trenches
at each downtown station. This activity may cause some intermittent noise above ground, and crews will minimize any inconvenience as much as possible. Similarly to boring the first tunnel, ground vibration should not be experienced.

Once the TBM has completed the second tunnel and reaches its final destination, crews will remove the TBM using large cranes and heavy equipment. As with the first tunnel, crews will be required to temporarily close
W. Pender Street at Granville Street to remove the TBM from the exit shaft. More information about this will be available prior to the TBM reaching its destination.


----------



## officedweller

New photos at Global Air Photos dated May 24th:

http://www.globalairphotos.com/gallery/BC/Richmond/Airport


























































































Portal and Marine Drive Station in Vancouver:


----------



## mr.x




----------



## mr.x

June 23 (Photo credits: Tafryn)



Waterfront Station





























Vancouver City Centre Station



















































Sea Island Centre Station












Middle Arm Bridge












Olympic Village Station







































Broadway/City Hall Station






























King Edward Station


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## officedweller

Thanks!

King Edward Station seems to be progressing nicely.


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## Unregistered User

What do you suppose is going on here?

I remember reading some caption on a similar photo on flickr saying that the 2nd tunnel will be a few feet lower than the first. I can't imagine why they would do this, and I'm hoping the photographer was mistaken.


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## officedweller

I can't see why the second tunnel would be lower than the first - it'll have a centre platform, so both tracks would have to be at the same elevation. This cross section shows the foundations being even.


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## mr.x

Posted by officedweller, new pics of the North Arm Brdige from the Canada Line site:

Looking South at North Arm Bridge. The Pier Numbering, starting with the closest one, are N3, N2, Tower N1, Tower S1, S2 and S3









Pier Tower N1 on the end of the extended Mitchell Island









Pier Tower S1 and Piers S2 & S3 










final product


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## mr.x

UPDATES:

- Cambie Village section will be completed and repaved before Christmas
- 52% of the entire Canada Line project has been complete
- because they know what kind of rock and soil conditions they have to bore through under False Creek, the tunnel boring machine has a modified cutting head. As a result, the 5-km bored tunnel should be completed faster, ahead of schedule.
- the first trains will arrive in Vancouver in December 2007
- overall, the line is currently ahead of schedule for opening on November 29, 2009


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## mr.x

*Canada Line: Going deep beneath the surface*

Denise Ryan, Vancouver Sun
Published: Tuesday, July 17, 2007

Canada Line construction may have cored and split this city, driven businesses from the Cambie village and made commuting a living hell, but Steve Crombie, vice-president of public affairs for InTransitBC, is anxious to show another side of the story.

Fourteen metres below ground at the bottom of a spiderweb of scaffolding, in the tunnel entry pit, is a small shrine.

A roughly constructed wooden box filled with faded plastic flowers and a statue of a saint sit crookedly on top of an electrical box. Saint Barbara, says Andrea Ciamei, project manager of tunneling, is the patron saint of miners.
"We bring her with us every place we go," says Ciamei in a heavy Italian accent.

Ciamei is in charge of a crew of about 50 so-called "tunnel rats," international workers who travel with him from country to country, job to job.

Their specialty is the dangerous work of building the tunnels many will use but few will ever see. Saint Barbara, says Ciamei, brings good luck, protection and safety.

It's a small sign that something magic, something other than logic, precision and expert engineering may be at work here.

Indeed, what is happening below the frustrating maze of fencing and Jersey barriers that keep our cars snarled up in traffic, is a tidy, clockwork operation.
At the entry pit, temporary track is already in place. Trains of coupled boxcars pull into circular tunnels. They carry precast cement segments; each train carries six sections that make one segment. Twenty-four hours a day, the trains move these segments into the earth.

As the tunnel-boring machine pushes forward at the head of the tunnel, the muck - soil and water - is pushed out behind it onto a screw conveyer that brings it to a belt, and so out of the tunnel.

Approximately 75,000 cubic metres of muck has been removed so far. The precast segments are erected inside a metal shield which is then removed.
Forty-six metres below False Creek, the tunnel is clean and neat, a kind of peaceful place, wending unevenly below the waterway, following the natural curves of the earth.

The side-by-side tunnels have fire doors every 46 metres. In case of emergency, riders will be able to hop from a smoke-filled tunnel to a separately ventilated exit route.

Roger Woodhead, technical director and the engineer behind much of the construction, is obviously proud of how things are coming along. But, he admits with a laugh, "Sometimes I have nightmares about it."

Construction presented some special challenges. Bored tunnels must be deeper below ground; cut-and cover allows tunnels to be dug closer to the surface, he explains.

"People feel safer closer to the surface."

Around the waterways, archeological monitors had to be present to ensure no first nations sites were disturbed (they weren't); layers of "glacial till," dumped here millions of years ago, created a set of variable substances that had to be dealt with in different ways.

Farther up the line, in Richmond, where elevated guideways soar over the Arthur Laing Bridge, the engineering problems were different. Special piles with cement filled "bulbs" at their base were designed to withstand earthquake motion.

"The guideways may move in the event of an earthquake, but they won't fall over," says Woodhead. Another innovation is the cable-stayed bridge over the north arm of the Fraser River - the only bridge of its kind in North America.
"In order to build this bridge," explains Crombie, "we had to keep the towers low due to air traffic, and wide apart because it's an active waterway."

The solution was to design a unique span that uses both post tension and cables. But what Crombie and his team may be most proud of is that the controversial cut-and-cover construction on Cambie is months ahead of schedule.

The Cambie section's original completion date had been April 2008; that has now been pushed up to December.

"In and out in under a year," says Crombie. "Restoration has already begun."
It's good news for commuters and businesses along Cambie, and it's the kind of good news that matters to Crombie and his team who, like the rest of us, are still having a few problems getting to work each day.

[email protected]

© Vancouver Sun 2007


























































For the Global BC News Hour story video, click the link below and find "Canada Line tunnel tour".

http://www.canada.com/globaltv/bc/video/index.html


----------



## officedweller

From the Canada Line website:



> At the top of this photo you can see the steel support, beam then below it the precast concrete tunnel liner, followed by the grout layer used to fill the gap left by the TBM, and finally the sandstone that we are digging out to form the sump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the distance you can see where Vancouver City Centre Station will be located. Above us is an underground cross passage connecting the Stores on each side of Granville. This is a low spot in the tunnel as after ducking under the cross passage we need to climb back up to get over the SkyTrain tunnel at Dunsmuir. You can see a steel frame around where we need to remove the tunnel concrete to dig the sump that will collect any water entering the tunnel. A pump will be located in the sump to remove the water.


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## mr.x

Pictures of the Canada Line tours on Monday from Canadaline.ca's photo gallery:



King Edward Station






































Aerial of Vancouver City Centre Station http://www.flickr.com/search/?s=rec&q=canada+line+vancouver&m=text



















Someone got into the cut and cover trench and sprayed graffiti











North Fraser Bridge


----------



## mr.x

Took this yesterday. Foundations are beginning to form on the east track at City Centre Station.


----------



## Canadian74

Will they use the same white Bombardier trains for this line?


----------



## mr.x

Canadian74 said:


> Will they use the same white Bombardier trains for this line?


Nope, the Bombardier trains SkyTrain uses are linear propulsion. The Canada Line trains will be made by Rotem, part of Hyundai, in South Korea and they will be standard subway technology, third rail.


----------



## Canadian74

^^ Do you have any pictures of the new train?


----------



## mr.x

Canadian74 said:


> ^^ Do you have any pictures of the new train?


Information, diagrams, and renderings on all of the stations and bridges and the new trains have been posted in the first post of this topic.


----------



## Canadian74

^^ Sorry, didn't notice it. But why didn't they ordered from Bombardier?


----------



## Vanman

I'm sure because Rotem put in a better bid. Anyway the new cars are shorter and wider than the Bombardier MKII cars. The exterior will also be made of stainless steel.


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## mr.x

Canadian74 said:


> ^^ Sorry, didn't notice it. But why didn't they ordered from Bombardier?


no worries.

They said the Rotem trains were flexible with other train models and I'm guessing they were cheaper than the Bombardier bid.


----------



## officedweller

The April 2007 - June 2007 Quarterly Report has been posted on the Canada Line site. A bit out of date already, but see section 4.3 for approved changes to the project.

Looks like access from Vancouver City Centre Station to both Pacific Centre Mall and Vancouver Centre Mall are confirmed.

Items 31 and 32 suggest Capstan Station is being accelerated.



> *Vehicles*
> &#56256;&#56451; Full scale production is underway and initial testing has begun. The first fully outfitted train has been coupled into a
> semi-permanent married pair to support dynamic factory testing. The first shipment of four trains is expected to arrive
> in Vancouver in December 2007.


http://www.canadaline.ca/uploads/NewsReleases/News440.pdf


----------



## mr.x

Some new information:

- Vancouver City Centre Station: Architectural design continued based on the advice received from City of Vancouver design workshops in January of this year. The concept plan for the connection to Vancouver Centre Mall which was
identified late in the last quarter has been agreed by all parties and design is now proceeding on the basis of the concourse level connections to both Pacific Centre and Vancouver Centre Malls.

- Full scale vehicle production is underway and initial testing has begun. The first fully outfitted train has been coupled into a semi-permanent married pair to support dynamic factory testing. The first shipment of four trains is expected to arrive in Vancouver in December 2007.

- The tunnel boring machine (TBM) began the second tunnel (inbound) drive in June 2007; the first 100m was completed on schedule.

- Cut- and-cover tunnel construction on Cambie Street is proceeding in all areas between 2nd and 64th Avenues. 3,506m of tunnel have been completed compared to the originally scheduled 3,470m. It is anticipated that cut and-
cover tunnel work will be complete well ahead of schedule.

- The design for the reinstatement of Cambie Street is almost complete. Road paving work has begun with the base lift of asphalt completed from 29th to 33rd and 59th to 63rd Avenues. Backfilling, curb, and gutter restoration
is progressing on several fronts.

- Production at the precast yard (Kent Avenue and Fraser Street) is well ahead of schedule. Substructure and superstructure work is now either on schedule or slightly ahead of schedule.


The first cables being installed onto the North Arm Bridge












From Tafyrn, more recent pictures of the Canada Line in the past week:


Excavation of Broadway-City Hall Station


----------



## alta-bc

mr.x said:


> Some new information:
> 
> - Vancouver City Centre Station: Architectural design continued based on the advice received from City of Vancouver design workshops in January of this year. The concept plan for the connection to Vancouver Centre Mall which was
> identified late in the last quarter has been agreed by all parties and design is now proceeding on the basis of the concourse level connections to both Pacific Centre and Vancouver Centre Malls.


Instead of making a connection to Vancouver Center Mall (which is not a very busy mall; I have been there maybe three times in the last 20 years) they should have put that money and effort into building the entrance at Granville and Robson. Of course all three would have been best.

I wonder if it will take them 20 years to build an entrance there, just like it took 20 years before they built the Dunsmuir entrance at Granville station.


----------



## mr.x

alta-bc said:


> Instead of making a connection to Vancouver Center Mall (which is not a very busy mall; I have been there maybe three times in the last 20 years) they should have put that money and effort into building the entrance at Granville and Robson. Of course all three would have been best.
> 
> I wonder if it will take them 20 years to build an entrance there, just like it took 20 years before they built the Dunsmuir entrance at Granville station.


I'm not sure but I think Cadillac Fairview (Pacific Centre's owners) are paying for the mall entrance, which would bring more people to the mall. 

And I think the city requested that a knockout panel be built on the south end of the station so that a future Robson Street entrance could be built. I'd love to see the station renamed Robson Station. How cool would that sound?


----------



## mr.x

_Deleted upon the request of InTransitBC/Canada Line Project Office._


----------



## en

mr.x said:


> JUST FOUND THIS......THE CANADA LINE TRAIN EXTERIOR
> 
> The concept is really nice, but why only the front? Looks horrible if they don't paint the entire train.


Looks pretty decent, now the next question would be, are they going to continue to use the "CANADA LINE" name and that HORRIBLE font, or is it going to be "SkyTrain Canada Line"?


----------



## Canadian74

mr.x said:


> The concept is really nice, but why only the front? Looks horrible if they don't paint the entire train.


I agree... They should paint the entire thing.


----------



## dchengg

today i heard on the new station announcement on trains heading towards broadway,
now they say it as :
"The next station is: Broadway; Transferpoint to minnelium line yada yada yada.."


----------



## ssiguy2

OK people. 

I'm interested to find out more about the vehicles they are using. I know they are from Rotem but went to their website and didn't say much. 
I'm sure this thread has mentioned this but I don't want to read one year of messages.

Does anyone have a FULL view of the trains? In terms of lenght what are they in comparion to a MK1/11? How many cars per train? How many cars will be able to put in the stations without having to lenghthen the stations later? 
Are they wider than MK1/11? 

Enquiring minds want to know.
Thanks.


----------



## Plumber73

^^ Check out the first page description of the vehicle. That's a start.


----------



## mr.x

ssiguy2 said:


> OK people.
> 
> I'm interested to find out more about the vehicles they are using. I know they are from Rotem but went to their website and didn't say much.
> I'm sure this thread has mentioned this but I don't want to read one year of messages.
> 
> Does anyone have a FULL view of the trains? In terms of lenght what are they in comparion to a MK1/11? How many cars per train? How many cars will be able to put in the stations without having to lenghthen the stations later?
> Are they wider than MK1/11?
> 
> Enquiring minds want to know.
> Thanks.


1) There aren't any diagrams or pictures of the same train the Canada Line is using other than what we've already seen.


2) Mark I cars are 12-metres long and 2 metres wide (a 4-car Mark I train is about 48 metres long). Mark II cars are 18-metres long and 2.2 metres wide (an articulated 2-car Mark II train is 36-metres long). The Canada Line articulated Rotem trains are 41-metres long (20.5 metre long cars) and 3 metres wide, so they are quite wider than the Mark series.

The Canada Line will be using 2-car articulated trains with a potential tiny 10-metre car in the middle of the articulated train when all station platforms have been expanded to 50-metres.


3) Most station platforms are 40-metres in length......except Waterfront, City Centre, Broadway-City Hall, Oakridge, YVR-Airport, and Richmond-Brighouse which are 50-metres long. Stations that are 40 metres long are expandable to 50-metres. Only 2-car trains can be used in 2009 and a third-car that is 10-metres long could be used in the future when platforms are extended.

At 40-metres, the station platforms won't be even able to dock entirely with the 41-metre trains.



We will be heading into major capacity, accessibility, and passenger comfort issues with this line in the near future. Future capacity is very very limited with the Canada Line.



Oakridge-41st Station











Check out the first page for all the info you will ever need.


----------



## OettingerCroat

you guys are making stupendous progress, awesome work!


----------



## OettingerCroat

mr.x said:


> 1) There aren't any diagrams or pictures of the same train the Canada Line is using other than what we've already seen.
> 
> 
> 2) Mark I cars are 12-metres long and 2 metres wide (a 4-car Mark I train is about 48 metres long). Mark II cars are 18-metres long and 2.2 metres wide (an articulated 2-car Mark II train is 36-metres long). The Canada Line articulated Rotem trains are 41-metres long (20.5 metre long cars) and 3 metres wide, so they are quite wider than the Mark series.
> 
> The Canada Line will be using 2-car articulated trains with a potential tiny 10-metre car in the middle of the articulated train when all station platforms have been expanded to 50-metres.
> 
> 
> 3) Most station platforms are 40-metres in length......except Waterfront, City Centre, Broadway-City Hall, Oakridge, YVR-Airport, and Richmond-Brighouse which are 50-metres long. Stations that are 40 metres long are expandable to 50-metres. Only 2-car trains can be used in 2009 and a third-car that is 10-metres long could be used in the future when platforms are extended.
> 
> At 40-metres, the station platforms won't be even able to dock entirely with the 41-metre trains.
> 
> 
> 
> *We will be heading into major capacity, accessibility, and passenger comfort issues with this line in the near future*.
> 
> 
> 
> Oakridge-41st Station
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check out the first page for all the info you will ever need.


yah wow, that is honestly some pretty poor planning, no offence to my 2nd favourite city in North America or its inhabitants.

so every five minutes a new train pulls into the station. is 5 minutes the peak interval or the avg interval? 41m train is dinky but if it comes every 5 minutes and is really serving more of a commuter role than a regional-connector role then that train length and period of time is fine. the overly short stations (shorter than the train, and after expansion shorter than the long train) are what frighten me the most, however.


----------



## alta-bc

OettingerCroat said:


> yah wow, that is honestly some pretty poor planning, no offence to my 2nd favourite city in North America or its inhabitants.
> 
> so every five minutes a new train pulls into the station. is 5 minutes the peak interval or the avg interval? 41m train is dinky but if it comes every 5 minutes and is really serving more of a commuter role than a regional-connector role then that train length and period of time is fine. the overly short stations (shorter than the train, and after expansion shorter than the long train) are what frighten me the most, however.


Well, I think we are getting the Lada version of metro systems. Ultra basic, built just to barely meet the absolute minimum requirements. A victim of Public Private Partnership (3P). Sure it will be on budget, but the private partner will make money, and the public will just have to get used to a crowded, bare bones system.

If this would have been a public project it probably would have gone over budget because of rising construction costs but EVERYONE has to deal with that right now. But it least it would have been built right. Just look at the Millennium line. On time and on budget.

The private partner of the Canada Line project (InTransitBC) is not stupid and knows about the rising construction costs and has cut corners at all levels it could.

I love subways and I was so excited when this project was announced but it has been nothing but disappointments since then. The only thing that I can think of that they haven't cheaped out on was the flyover after Bridgeport station. The rest, the short, sloped stations, only two down escalators on the whole line, monochrome LED displays out of the eighties (proposed to be just like the current ones), narrow, low ceiling platforms, single entrances at stations where there should be two, single track end stations, no emergency exits to the outside in between stations (in tunnels), etc....

Sorry for the rant, I'm setting my expectations low so that maybe I will get to like this system... because I really do want to like it.


----------



## mr.x

OettingerCroat said:


> yah wow, that is honestly some pretty poor planning, no offence to my 2nd favourite city in North America or its inhabitants.
> 
> so every five minutes a new train pulls into the station. is 5 minutes the peak interval or the avg interval? 41m train is dinky but if it comes every 5 minutes and is really serving more of a commuter role than a regional-connector role then that train length and period of time is fine. the overly short stations (shorter than the train, and after expansion shorter than the long train) are what frighten me the most, however.


Don't worry, it isn't offending because it really is poor planning.

Every 5-minutes is the average interval. During most of the day (morning and afternoon peak, mid-day) there will be a train every 3-4 minutes in Vancouver and at every 6-7 minutes at the Richmond and YVR spur lines.

This line is using the same automated technology as our existing SkyTrain, which an go to frequencies less than 60 seconds. I doubt the Canada Line could reach 60 second frequencies in Vancouver since the final stretches of the YVR and Richmond spurs are single-tracked. I'd think the maximum frequency for the Canada Line would be 2 minutes in Vancouver and 4 minutes in YVR/Richmond.

We won't be fine.....a lot of bus ridership is being diverted to the Canada Line and we're expecting 100,000 passengers per day on opening year or maybe a year or two after opening year and more than 140,000 passengers daily by 2021. In comparison, the SkyTrain Expo Line use 80-metre platforms and short trains that carry the same amount of passengers as the Canada Line trains. The Canada Line uses 40-metre platforms (and trains) and has 16-stations (in the future, it will have 4 more stations built on the line).....Expo SkyTrain has 20-stations and carries 180,000 passengers daily. *Comparing SkyTrain and the Canada Line, you can see major problems in the future.*

This is a very busy and rapidly growing corridor, ridership will be growing fast.


A lot of people (or rather EVERYONE) are expecting the Canada Line to be as grand and luxurious as the Millennium SkyTrain Line, but I think they will be VERY surprised in 2009.....I can really see the media making a big fuss about it too.


----------



## mr.x

alta-bc said:


> Well, I think we are getting the Lada version of metro systems. Ultra basic, built just to barely meet the absolute minimum requirements. A victim of Public Private Partnership (3P). Sure it will be on budget, but the private partner will make money, and the public will just have to get used to a crowded, bare bones system.
> 
> If this would have been a public project it probably would have gone over budget because of rising construction costs but EVERYONE has to deal with that right now. But it least it would have been built right. Just look at the Millennium line. On time and on budget.
> 
> The private partner of the Canada Line project (InTransitBC) is not stupid and knows about the rising construction costs and has cut corners at all levels it could.
> 
> I love subways and I was so excited when this project was announced but it has been nothing but disappointments since then. The only thing that I can think of that they haven't cheaped out on was the flyover after Bridgeport station. The rest, the short, sloped stations, only two down escalators on the whole line, monochrome LED displays out of the eighties (proposed to be just like the current ones), narrow, low ceiling platforms, single entrances at stations where there should be two, single track end stations, no emergency exits to the outside in between stations (in tunnels), etc....
> 
> Sorry for the rant, I'm setting my expectations low so that maybe I will get to like this system... because I really do want to like it.


I have the same thoughts and feelings too.


There was HUGE public support behind this project. Translink's initial voting down of the project was met with a lot of public protest against its decision and a website called "RAV Rant" was created by supporters, and received thousands of hits daily [and thousands of comments daily]. They also polled the general public, something like 84% for the project from 8,000 votes.

I really feel the public will be dissapointed when more is revealed about this project. It will send the Liberal government back to the drawing board with all this P3 hype they want. *But really, I don't think it was the P3 or InTransitBC's fault, it was Jane Bird and RAVco. They were the ones that low-balled the capacity of the line (15,000 ppdph) and did not specify platform lengths.*


----------



## ssiguy2

Dear god! 

That is puny. 
People say the " bigger SkyTrain cars and stations" as a comparison but by any standards SkyTrain stations/cars are VERY small. 
Compare to any subway system and SkyTrain is a Tonka-toy. 

All SkyTrain stations are soon going have to be lenghtened to accomodate 3 MK11 cars at the very least. Even that would still make them a small subway compared to other major one's like Toronto's. 

Only Vancouver could be so incredibly short sighted. 

RAV with only the capacity of 3 MK1 is beyond stupid. 
I kniow the Twass/WhiteRock buses are all being transferred to the RAV. All it takes is for both to arrive at the same time and the tiny train is full. 

They would have been better just to use LRT down Arbustus or BRT down Arbutsus...........it seems it would have been just as fast and seems it would have the same capacity.


----------



## mr.x

*Operations & Maintenance Centre - August 12 - by Tafyrn*

































































































> I kniow the Twass/WhiteRock buses are all being transferred to the RAV. All it takes is for both to arrive at the same time and the tiny train is full.
> 
> They would have been better just to use LRT down Arbustus or BRT down Arbutsus...........it seems it would have been just as fast and seems it would have the same capacity.


Yea, this could potentially be the next fast ferries.

I don't know about LRT or BRT down Arbutus, but right now I would definitely prefer LRT on Cambie over what is being built. I think most supported the Canada Line because of its speed, frequency, and capacity over LRT.....but right now it's missing frequency and capacity.

Ideally, the Canada Line should've been built with at least 80-metre platforms expandable to 100-metres and the airport and Richmond terminus sections should never have been single-tracked.


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## OettingerCroat

alta-bc said:


> Well, I think we are getting the *Lada version of metro systems.*


:lol: kay:



alta-bc said:


> Ultra basic, built just to barely meet the absolute minimum requirements. A victim of Public Private Partnership (3P). Sure it will be on budget, but the private partner will make money, and the public will just have to get used to a crowded, bare bones system.
> 
> If this would have been a public project it probably would have gone over budget because of rising construction costs but EVERYONE has to deal with that right now. But it least it would have been built right. Just look at the Millennium line. On time and on budget.


yah how is the Millennium line regarding crowding? those trains are short too... and i take it that it was a public project, how come it was able to be on budget?



alta-bc said:


> The private partner of the Canada Line project (InTransitBC) is not stupid and knows about the rising construction costs and has cut corners at all levels it could.
> 
> I love subways and I was so excited when this project was announced but it has been nothing but disappointments since then. The only thing that I can think of that they haven't cheaped out on was the flyover after Bridgeport station. The rest, the short, sloped stations, only two down escalators on the whole line, monochrome LED displays out of the eighties (proposed to be just like the current ones), narrow, low ceiling platforms, single entrances at stations where there should be two, single track end stations, no emergency exits to the outside in between stations (in tunnels), etc....
> 
> Sorry for the rant, I'm setting my expectations low so that maybe I will get to like this system... because I really do want to like it.


its ok, a system like the one you just cited really does deserve a rant :rant:


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## OettingerCroat

mr.x said:


> This line is using the same automated technology as our existing SkyTrain, which an go to frequencies less than 60 seconds. I doubt the Canada Line could reach 60 second frequencies in Vancouver since *the final stretches of the YVR and Richmond spurs are single-tracked.* I'd think the maximum frequency for the Canada Line would be 2 minutes in Vancouver and 4 minutes in YVR/Richmond.


 single tracked? ive honestly never heard of something like that on a system of this nature ever before in my life... even tram systems typically avoid single tracking.



mr.x said:


> We won't be fine.....a lot of bus ridership is being diverted to the Canada Line and we're expecting 100,000 passengers per day on opening year or maybe a year or two after opening year and more than 140,000 passengers daily by 2021. In comparison, the SkyTrain Expo Line use 80-metre platforms and short trains that carry the same amount of passengers as the Canada Line trains. The Canada Line uses 40-metre platforms (and trains) and has 16-stations (in the future, it will have 4 more stations built on the line).....Expo SkyTrain has 20-stations and carries 180,000 passengers daily. *Comparing SkyTrain and the Canada Line, you can see major problems in the future.*
> 
> 
> This is a very busy and rapidly growing corridor, ridership will be growing fast.
> 
> 
> A lot of people (or rather EVERYONE) are expecting the Canada Line to be as grand and luxurious as the Millennium SkyTrain Line, but I think they will be VERY surprised in 2009.....I can really see the media making a big fuss about it too.



well i guess all we can say (and i mean this as honestly as you can imagine) is that let's hope it turns out as not-badly as possible :|


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## The_Henry_Man

I guess the Canada Line is the North American version of the Dockland's Light Rail in England. But at the end, the planners there did lengthen the platforms and increased capacity dramatically, from I think 30 or 40m to 60m. I wonder how much did that cost and was the system originally designed to be extended to 60m.

My dad told me that there won't be that many people taking the C-Line compared to the Skytrain, thinking that it'll be losing so much money that taxpayers will be covering the cost up. It's hard to say if C-Line will be immediately at capacity within a few years of opening, but for sure, it'll be at capacity within 20 years.


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## Plumber73

There seem to be a mix of opinions regarding how successful it will be. Time will tell.


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## Unregistered User

I try to stay positive by reflecting on my beliefs that:

1. An overcrowded system is better than an underutilized system if one is eagerly anticipating future transit expansion in the region (we'll see that Arbutus line a lot sooner if the Canada Line can't meet North-South commuter needs).

and 

2. A system with low-capacity vehicles with higher frequency potential is preferable to a system with high-capacity vehicles with lower frequency (Canada Line vs. traditional heavy-rail subway systems).


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## mr.x

The_Henry_Man said:


> I guess the Canada Line is the North American version of the Dockland's Light Rail in England. But at the end, the planners there did lengthen the platforms and increased capacity dramatically, from I think 30 or 40m to 60m. I wonder how much did that cost and was the system originally designed to be extended to 60m.
> 
> My dad told me that there won't be that many people taking the C-Line compared to the Skytrain, thinking that it'll be losing so much money that taxpayers will be covering the cost up. It's hard to say if C-Line will be immediately at capacity within a few years of opening, but for sure, it'll be at capacity within 20 years.


Well, the major difference between DLR and the Canada Line is that the DLR is mostly elevated. The Canada Line is roughly half underground and half elevated/at-grade, and we all know how much harder [and more expensive] it is to extend underground platforms.

Interesting to note that the DLR has recently built a new platform for one of its terminus stations. Before, it was just a single-tracked platform but now it is doubled (similar to the Canada Line's Waterfront Station with track switches just before arriving the station). Is that a possibility with Brighouse-RCC and YVR-Airport Stations? 

Can the 250-metre single-tracked segments at the terminus of the two spur lines be double-tracked? I very much doubt it, though you could build another guideway right next to it......and the City of Richmond would flip over having two sets of pillars on No.3 Road. We all know how much they wanted at-grade because of "the ugly elevated guideway'.

With the Canada Line, i think the biggest platform extension problem could be Bridgeport Station. You have the expensive flyover/track switch immediately west of the station and then you have the track switches from the OMC immediately east of the station.....the Bridgeport area would have to be completely rebuilt for an extended station beyond 50-metres.

With extending the underground station platforms, we don't know what the tunnel grades are like on both ends of the stations or where precisely the turns in the tunnel are. Also, expensive high-powered tunnel fans located at the ends of each station would have to be relocated elsewhere.




I doubt the Canada Line will have the same ridership issues as the Millennium Line, which seems to be the main worry with the public and the media.....though it's never mentioned that the Millennium Line is only half-built with its PMC SkyTrain extension cancelled and Broadway extension deferred, yet Translink and the media are still using the same ridership projections based on a complete line.

The Canada Line, unlike the M-Line, goes through Downtown Vancouver, major employment/shopping centres, interchange areas, the airport, and Downtown Richmond. The M-Line doesn't go through that kind of density nor does it serve any major institutions/employment centres (besides SFU). That said, the M-Line is near ridership projections this year.



It's certainly a lot easier to extend the station platforms on the Expo and M-Lines just by looking at them. The Expo Line platforms for sure can be extended to accommodate 8-car Mark I's from the present 6-car Mark I's.....and frequency isn't a problem either with all sections double-tracked and with an automatic train control system able to run frequencies as frequent as 60 seconds or less.

Thankfully, Translink voted to provide more funding to InTransitBC so that only one station in Richmond would be single-tracked (Brighouse-RCC) rather than both Lansdowne and Brighouse-RCC stations. It would've been an absolute backlog mess if the single-tracking started before Lansdowne.


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## mr.x

Unregistered User said:


> I try to stay positive by reflecting on my beliefs that:
> 
> 1. An overcrowded system is better than an underutilized system if one is eagerly anticipating future transit expansion in the region (we'll see that Arbutus line a lot sooner if the Canada Line can't meet North-South commuter needs).
> 
> and
> 
> 2. A system with low-capacity vehicles with higher frequency potential is preferable to a system with high-capacity vehicles with lower frequency (Canada Line vs. traditional heavy-rail subway systems).


1. A 40-metre station platform is shorter than the Disneyland monorail platforms. Most metros in the world are built to be able to accommodate future capacity.

The Arbutus corridor is more of an streetcar corridor rather than LRT....for one thing there's not enough density to support LRT and if SkyTrain had been built on Arbutus instead, I read somewhere it would take 35-minutes from Downtown to Richmond....and that's SkyTrain, not LRT - and LRT takes longer than SkyTrain.


2. The thing about the Canada Line is that the single-tracked terminus sections at YVR and Richmond will limit the ultimate frequency of the line. You probably won't see SkyTrain's ultimate frequency of 60 seconds or less but maybe an ultimate frequency of 2 to 3-minutes in Vancouver and 4-6 minutes in Richmond/YVR.


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## The_Henry_Man

mr.x said:


> Can the 250-metre single-tracked segments at the terminus of the two spur lines be double-tracked? I very much doubt it, though you could build another guideway right next to it......and the City of Richmond would flip over having two sets of pillars on No.3 Road. We all know how much they wanted at-grade because of "the ugly elevated guideway'.
> 
> With the Canada Line, i think the biggest platform extension problem could be Bridgeport Station. You have the expensive flyover/track switch immediately west of the station and then you have the track switches from the OMC immediately east of the station.....the Bridgeport area would have to be completely rebuilt for an extended station beyond 50-metres.



If making an extra platform not possible for both YVR-Airport and Brighouse Stations, then extend the double tracking west and south, respectively, as closest to the stations as possible, so that increasing the frequency of the trains is more feasible. If the single-tracking portiions are 250m (don't think so, more likely 400m now, check google earth), then narrow it to 100m.


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## mr.x

The_Henry_Man said:


> If making an extra platform not possible for both YVR-Airport and Brighouse Stations, then extend the double tracking west and south, respectively, as closest to the stations as possible, so that increasing the frequency of the trains is more feasible. If the single-tracking portiions are 250m (don't think so, more likely 400m now, check google earth), then narrow it to 100m.


My bad. Looking at Google Earth, i'm approximating single-tracking to be:

- Richmond: 500-600 metres
- YVR: 400-500 metres


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## alta-bc

mr.x said:


> 2. The thing about the Canada Line is that the single-tracked terminus sections at YVR and Richmond will limit the ultimate frequency of the line. You probably won't see SkyTrain's ultimate frequency of 60 seconds or less but maybe an ultimate frequency of 2 to 3-minutes in Vancouver and 4-6 minutes in Richmond/YVR.


It's amazing how one short single track section can affect the train frequency of the whole system. If they would have made the Richmond terminus doubled tracked and leave the airport they way it is, then increasing the frequency on the Richmond spur would have benefited the whole line.

However, they could eventually run every fourth train just to Bridgeport and have it turn back to Vancouver. This would increase frequency on the main trunk portion of the line and would help with the movement of commuters from the suburbs. Not sure how complicated logistically that would be, but with an automated system, this should be feasable.


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## OettingerCroat

how does payment work here? is it per length of trip or simply per ride? i think it should be per ride...


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## alta-bc

OettingerCroat said:


> how does payment work here? is it per length of trip or simply per ride? i think it should be per ride...


It is actually really simple. There are three zones, if you travel within one of any zone it cost CAD $2.25, two $3.25 and three $4.50. Cheaper after hours, weekends and holidays.

Any ticket is valid for 90 minutes of travel, unlimited transfers and any direction, i.e. you could go from home to go shopping and come back again as long as you board the last mode of transit with 90 minutes.

Not a bad system in my opinion, except if you have to travel only a short distance and it crosses a zone, then you have to pay for two zones.

http://www.translink.bc.ca/Transportation_Services/Fares_Passes/fare_pricing.asp


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## DRQ_QF

lucky canadians... 200,000 passengers per day, in our collapsed metro system in santiago de chile, everyday travel about 2.5 million passengers on trains smaller and slower than yours...
don't complain, be proud
greetings from chile


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## alta-bc

DRQ_QF said:


> lucky canadians... 200,000 passengers per day, in our collapsed metro system in santiago de chile, everyday travel about 2.5 million passengers on trains smaller and slower than yours...
> don't complain, be proud
> greetings from chile


Our trains may be faster (80km/h) but they definitely can't be bigger than yours. If our old trains were any smaller, you'd have to call our system a "people mover". In fact, Detroit uses the same trains and it IS called a people mover. Mind you, theirs is just a single track loop.


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## mr.x

Some rare night shots by *Vancouverite* taken on Aug. 23

Vancouver City Centre station looking South.









Vancouver City Centre station looking North.









Waterfront Station looking North.


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## Canada_Line

Sometimes, the zone system can be confusing, though...

Anyways, back to talking about the Canada line.

In my opinion, a rapid transit system is supposed to improve the following:

Speed, Frequency, Capacity, Convenience, Reliability and Comfort.

The Canada Line fails to fulfill my expectations in many of these areas (for the long term).

Speed: fulfilled

Frequency: With such long distances of single tracks, frequency is a serious concern. Assuming that the single-tracking section is 650 m, the maximum frequency would be just within 4 minutes. But by measuring on a map, the total single-tracked section seems more like 875 m, which would result in a maximum frequency of about 5 minutes. Although this should be enough for the next 20-30 years, I believe this will become a serious issue after that time period. If they were to come back and turn the single tracks into double tracks (to about 20m away from RCC Station), that would probably cost about *$50-100 million*, but if they were to do it now, it would probably be just about *$9-10 million*. Besides, they probably wouldn't come back to it by looking at what happened to the Broadway and Coquitlam extensions of the Millenium Line.

Capacity: As of now, 40-50m platforms are just about enough. But with future ridership growth, an extension of the trains or platforms (past 50m) to accomodate more passengers may be necessary and this may not easily be done again giving me worries. Nevertheless, if the frequencies were faster, this would probably not matter so much...but the trouble now is that the frequencies can only be reduced to a limited degree (as stated above).

Convenience and Accessibility: With just about 1 exit per station, I would not think of this line as convenient. When compared to the stations they have in Hong Kong with about 8-20 or more exits/entries, this is nothing. However, I find this not as important as the other issues.

Reliability: With single tracking, any system failures that occur in these parts will result in big delays or even the closures of stations. I still think this system will be very reliable and on time (better than the B-Line's, probably).

Comfort: With large demand (in the future), large frequencies and small trains, I wouldn't think this system would be very comfortable.

Sorry for my complaint! But I thought of the system would be so great...to have my hopes pulled down like that...hno: :nuts:


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## Canada_Line

From that image, the single guideway doesn't seem so small.

Perhaps they could install another track on it without removing the guideways (but maybe it's just that this image is a close up one).

Maybe it's just that they don't want to install another track right now, but I doubt it...

I certainly hope they could install another track...


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## mr.x

Canada_Line said:


> Sometimes, the zone system can be confusing, though...
> 
> Anyways, back to talking about the Canada line.
> 
> In my opinion, a rapid transit system is supposed to improve the following:
> 
> Speed, Frequency, Capacity, Convenience, Reliability and Comfort.
> 
> The Canada Line fails to fulfill my expectations in many of these areas (for the long term).
> 
> Speed: fulfilled
> 
> Frequency: With such long distances of single tracks, frequency is a serious concern. Assuming that the single-tracking section is 650 m, the maximum frequency would be just within 4 minutes. But by measuring on a map, the total single-tracked section seems more like 875 m, which would result in a maximum frequency of about 5 minutes. Although this should be enough for the next 20-30 years, I believe this will become a serious issue after that time period. If they were to come back and turn the single tracks into double tracks (to about 20m away from RCC Station), that would probably cost about *$50-100 million*, but if they were to do it now, it would probably be just about *$9-10 million*. Besides, they probably wouldn't come back to it by looking at what happened to the Broadway and Coquitlam extensions of the Millenium Line.
> 
> Capacity: As of now, 40-50m platforms are just about enough. But with future ridership growth, an extension of the trains or platforms (past 50m) to accomodate more passengers may be necessary and this may not easily be done again giving me worries. Nevertheless, if the frequencies were faster, this would probably not matter so much...but the trouble now is that the frequencies can only be reduced to a limited degree (as stated above).
> 
> Convenience and Accessibility: With just about 1 exit per station, I would not think of this line as convenient. When compared to the stations they have in Hong Kong with about 8-20 or more exits/entries, this is nothing. However, I find this not as important as the other issues.
> 
> Reliability: With single tracking, any system failures that occur in these parts will result in big delays or even the closures of stations. I still think this system will be very reliable and on time (better than the B-Line's, probably).
> 
> Comfort: With large demand (in the future), large frequencies and small trains, I wouldn't think this system would be very comfortable.
> 
> Sorry for my complaint! But I thought of the system would be so great...to have my hopes pulled down like that...hno: :nuts:


that more or less sums up my thoughts as well. 


Speed: 25/26 minutes is faster than the car for most of the day and definitely faster than the B-Line (50+ minutes during peak)

Comfort: the 40/50 metre station platforms could affect comfort, especially if there's large crowds.

Accessibility: it's difficult to maneuver out of a crowded station or crowded concourse/hallway in a narrow station, especially if they install turnstiles in the concourses at stations like Broadway-City Hall and Vancouver City Centre.





> From that image, the single guideway doesn't seem so small.
> 
> Perhaps they could install another track on it without removing the guideways (but maybe it's just that this image is a close up one).


That's my theory that it's "double-trackable" by simply removing the single-track guideway and installing a double-track guideway, because that's the only way how i could see the single-tracked guideway is designed in a way that it can also be double-tracked.



This is where double-tracking at YVR ends (and this is also the site of the future YVR-3 Station):



















It's quite hard to tell whether the single-track pillars/supports are the same as double-track pillars.


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## OettingerCroat

alta-bc said:


> It is actually really simple. There are three zones, if you travel within one of any zone it cost CAD $2.25, two $3.25 and three $4.50. Cheaper after hours, weekends and holidays.
> 
> Any ticket is valid for 90 minutes of travel, unlimited transfers and any direction, i.e. you could go from home to go shopping and come back again as long as you board the last mode of transit with 90 minutes.
> 
> Not a bad system in my opinion, except if you have to travel only a short distance and it crosses a zone, then you have to pay for two zones.
> 
> http://www.translink.bc.ca/Transportation_Services/Fares_Passes/fare_pricing.asp


thats really good. here in SF we have BART and you have to purchase a specially charged ticket with exactly enough money to get you from your station to the station you're going to. HORRIBLE system.


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## mr.x

OettingerCroat said:


> thats really good. here in SF we have BART and you have to purchase a specially charged ticket with exactly enough money to get you from your station to the station you're going to. HORRIBLE system.


I actually like that system better, a distance-based system (which requires turnstiles). It's also in use in Hong Kong....on the MTR's fare machines, there's a map and you simply press your station destination and you put in the correct amount of money.


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## OettingerCroat

mr.x said:


> I actually like that system better, a distance-based system (which requires turnstiles). It's also in use in Hong Kong....on the MTR's fare machines, there's a map and you simply press your station destination and you put in the correct amount of money.


yah i heard about the hong kong one, but even that ones much simpler. the BART ticket machines are incredibly stupid. there is a chart beside the screen, telling you how much a one-way trip costs from your current station to the one you want to get to.

then you have to feed an amount of money into the machine, and often times asking for change back to get an exact ticket back (otherwise you exit the turnstile and get back a $0.15 ticket or so), and you know have a charged debit card of sorts. you feed it into the entry turnstile, and it embeds information onto a magnetic strip as to where you entered the system.

when you exit the terminal station and feed your ticket into the turnstile again, it computes the worth of your ride, deducts it from your ticket, and if there's any worth left, it spits it back out at the other end of the turnstile for you to grab.

because of it being printed on a piece of paper essentially, the magnetic strip is extremely vulnerable. if you put it in the same pocket as your cell phone, the card gets damaged and cant be read by the turnstile. in worse cases, your amount of money gets completely nullified and its up to the BART transit officer at the station to be merciful and write you a pass to your terminal station.

its a wonderful hassle. ideal would be a system like on the parisian metro, where every ride is one ticket. they're cheaper (equivalent to about $1.50 CAD), printed on regular pieces of paper, and MUCH less of a waste of time. a system like this truly might be unfair for the Canada Line, though, as far as I know. Parisian metro has frequent stops due to extreme density so even the longest ride is not much longer than the ones involving just a few stops. Canada line will likely enjoy far lesser ridership than the Parisian metro (duh...) so a more distance-specific payment method does sound fairer.

i'd still the prefer the one-ticket-per-ride-regardless-of-distance method though... 

:cheers2:


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## Unregistered User

mr.x said:


> that more or less sums up my thoughts as well.
> It's quite hard to tell whether the single-track pillars/supports are the same as double-track pillars.


They are definitely not the same.


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## allurban

mr.x said:


> Toronto's subway line operates with 45,000 pphpd i believe, though i may be wrong.


The Yonge St. stretch of the Yonge-University-Spadina line is carrying about 48000 ppdph during peak hours at the moment.

I believe the max intended was 40,000 ppdph.

For comparison to Skytrain, the Kelana Jaya line in Kuala Lumpur is running 2-carriage (260 passenger) at about 2-5 minute frequencies...

ppdph during peak hours (1 minute freq) is about 15000 and they will expand to 4 carriage (530 passenger) trains in 2 years. 

Cheers, m


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## mr.x

allurban said:


> The Yonge St. stretch of the Yonge-University-Spadina line is carrying about 48000 ppdph during peak hours at the moment.
> 
> I believe the max intended was 40,000 ppdph.
> 
> For comparison to Skytrain, the Kelana Jaya line in Kuala Lumpur is running 2-carriage (260 passenger) at about 2-5 minute frequencies...
> 
> ppdph during peak hours (1 minute freq) is about 15000 and they will expand to 4 carriage (530 passenger) trains in 2 years.
> 
> Cheers, m


Our SkyTrain uses Mark II trains as well and we use both the 2-car (260 passenger) and 4-car (530 pass./) train lengths. We ordered 34 more Mark II cars for 2009, and that should allow all Mark II trains to be 4-cars long. I believe we currently use around 16,000 pphpd of our 25,000+ pphpd capacity.


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## nname

mr.x said:


> Well it's like building the Canada Line from Waterfront Station to Marine Drive Station, rather than building out to Richmond and the airport.


I think its more like Canada Line from Bridgeport (Loading all passengers from bus, like Lougheed Stn) to Broadway (just touch the edge of downtown and then stops)




Canada_Line said:


> If the double tracking is extended to 20 m before the station, so as not to need to change the station plans (reducing cost), the maximum frequency would be about 1 minute (maybe less), which would be good enough.


Well... then can always short turn every second train at Lansdowne or Aberdeen station, and that can double the frequency without double tracking.....




mr.x said:


> With the Canada Line, i think the biggest platform extension problem could be Bridgeport Station. You have the expensive flyover/track switch immediately west of the station and then you have the track switches from the OMC immediately east of the station.....the Bridgeport area would have to be completely rebuilt for an extended station beyond 50-metres.


I took a closer look at the consultation material plus an air photo, and I can say that Bridgeport station would actually have space to expand to about 73.5m without having to modify the switch and flyover...


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## mr.x

nname said:


> I took a closer look at the consultation material plus an air photo, and I can say that Bridgeport station would actually have space to expand to about 73.5m without having to modify the switch and flyover...


wow, that's a good find. but are you sure there isn't anything there?


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## officedweller

I'm pretty sure the YVR single guideway columns are narrower.
They can always short turn trains at Bridgeport to increase frequency on the mainline. The most crowds will come from south-of-Fraser buses @ Bridgeport and within the City of Vancouver. 

*****************

Pic by Stephen Rees more clearly showing the pedestrian pathway dated Aug 25, 2007:

http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/canada-line-construction-photos/#comment-6297










And this shot showing the mainline guideway through the OMC almost complete:


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## Canada_Line

I recently looked at a map of the Canada Line and I think it tells how long the single tracking is.

It looks like the YVR single tracking section is almost double more than the length of single tracking at Richmond Center.

And I think it said somewhere that the single tracking is 650m at the airport, so 400 or 450m at Richmond Center?


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## officedweller

The Environmental Assessment Certificate application and amendments show the YVR single track segment as 650m (including a 42m tail track, so really 608m). See Section 2.2 here (in particular, section 2.2.3). Won't significantly impact even after train frequency increases from every 6 min to every 4 min on the YVR leg in the year 2040.

http://www.eao.gov.bc.ca/epic/outpu...55583998_78071516178144748fdea2739c594d12.pdf

Couldn't find current info on the Richmond segent - the EAO website shows out-of-date information with the station on the west side of No. 3 Rd. 

BTW - the EAO aplication provides interesting information regarding InTransitBC's proposal (as proposed at the time (Dec 2004) - numerous changes have been made since then, including single tracking the termini, changing stacked to side-by-side, casting in place, etc.). 

http://www.eao.gov.bc.ca/epic/output/html/deploy/epic_document_208_19477.html


*************


New pics on the Canada Line website courtesy of Jim Jorgenson Photography:


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## mr.x

wow, great info thx. 



> The Environmental Assessment Certificate application and amendments show the YVR single track segment as 650m (including a 42m tail track, so really 608m). See Section 2.2 here (in particular, section 2.2.3). Won't significantly impact even after train frequency increases from every 6 min to every 4 min on the YVR leg in the year 2040.


2040? i think it'll be more like 2020.


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## alta-bc

I inquired at the community office again about station slope. There was a different person there and this time I was told that there may be up to 2% slope on some stations. Last time I was told 1% max. They couldn't tell me for sure because "station designs are still being finalized". This doesn`t make any sense because most of the track bed has been laid and the amount of slope if any should be obvious. Especially at King Edward station, where the raw build of the station box is almost complete. Slope is not a detail design, it affects at which level the track enters and exits the station.


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## officedweller

More from Jim Jorgenson Photography at the Canada Line website:


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## ssiguy2

mr.x said:


> Our SkyTrain uses Mark II trains as well and we use both the 2-car (260 passenger) and 4-car (530 pass./) train lengths. We ordered 34 more Mark II cars for 2009, and that should allow all Mark II trains to be 4-cars long. I believe we currently use around 16,000 pphpd of our 25,000+ pphpd capacity.



Sorry I'm a little lost. 
When the new trains finally arrived will the CURRENT stations be able to handle 3 MK11 cars? If not can they be easily expanded to accomodate 3 or even 4 MK11 cars or 9/12 MK1 cars? 

Right now it seems the current stations can only accomodate 2 MK11/6 MK1cars. It is great they will be getting 34 MK11 cars but there are never even close to 34 trains running at one time so where will the extra new cars going??? 

I'm lost.


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## Plumber73

^^You might be confusing trains with cars - two MarkII cars coupled together currently make up the shortest train. I believe the stations can handle a 5 car MarkII train, which is somewhat close in length to a six car MarkI train. I'm assuming the new cars will be added to make more 4 car MarkIIs rather than just two. I'm not exactly sure how many trains are active at one time, but I'm guessing at peak times there must be between 25 to 30 going at once. But I'm not too sure what the frequencies are.


----------



## OettingerCroat

if this is any reassurance, the system looks very well made and PHYSICALLY planned. i understand capacity planning might be lacking, but just the physical aspects of the line itself look top-notch. keep your heads up kay:

:cheers2:


----------



## urbanfan89

The section in Richmond is single-tracked? Wow. Why didn't they leave the possibility of extending the line further south in the long term? We could eventually need an extension to Stevenson or even Delta in 50 years (if global warming doesn't destroy Richmond by then lol)


----------



## mr.x

urbanfan89 said:


> The section in Richmond is single-tracked? Wow. Why didn't they leave the possibility of extending the line further south in the long term? We could eventually need an extension to Stevenson or even Delta in 50 years (if global warming doesn't destroy Richmond by then lol)


About 650 metres south of Lansdowne Station to Brighouse-Richmond City Centre Station is single-tracked.


----------



## ssiguy2

Plumber73 said:


> ^^You might be confusing trains with cars - two MarkII cars coupled together currently make up the shortest train. I believe the stations can handle a 5 car MarkII train, which is somewhat close in length to a six car MarkI train. I'm assuming the new cars will be added to make more 4 car MarkIIs rather than just two. I'm not exactly sure how many trains are active at one time, but I'm guessing at peak times there must be between 25 to 30 going at once. But I'm not too sure what the frequencies are.


4 MK11 cars is FAR longer/larger than 5 MK1 cars. One MK11 is about 3 MK1 cars. 4 MK11 is the equivelant of 12 MK1.


----------



## mr.x

ssiguy2 said:


> 4 MK11 cars is FAR longer/larger than 5 MK1 cars. One MK11 is about 3 MK1 cars. 4 MK11 is the equivelant of 12 MK1.


Actually, no. 

one Mark I car: 80 passengers (also the same as a 40-foot bus)
one Mark II car: 130 passengers (a 60-foot articulated bus holds 120 passengers)

four Mark I cars: 320 passengers 
four Mark II cars: 520 passengers
-----------
one Mark I car: 12 metres long
one Mark II car: 18 metres long

four Mark I cars: 48 metres long
four Mark II cars: 72 metres long


----------



## mr.x

*Vancouver SkyTrain Station Renovations*









*SIGNIFICANT UPGRADES FOR BROADWAY, MAIN STREET, AND METROTOWN SKYTRAIN STATIONS*

Translink, the Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority, intends to conduct significant upgrade to three high volume SkyTrain stations along the Expo Line - Broadway, Main, and Metrotown stations.

These stations play a central role in the transportation network and currently experience significant access and capacity constraints. Demands on these stations will continue to grow with expansion of the regional transit network, regional population growth and land use change around the stations.
Translink has recently completed design work for these three stations that, when implemented, will allow the stations to meet current and future ridership demands. These major station upgrades will be completed by the end of 2009, prior to the 2010 Olympic Winter Games. 

Given the importance of these station to the network and the limited time available for construction, a Phasing Strategy for these projects is critical to the successful implementation of the station plans. The Phasing Strateg will manage system and operational impacts and maximize cost and time effieciencies gained from taking a coordinated approach to the upgrades.



*ARCHITECTS*

Broadway Station: Via Architecture/Stantec Architecture
Metrotown Station: Busby Perkins & Will Architects
Main Street-Science World Station: Hotson Bakker Boniface Haden Architects





Broadway Station












Metrotown Station














Main Street-Science World Station













Metro Vancouver Rapid Transit Map (2011)


----------



## mr.x

*BROADWAY STATION REDESIGN*

The planned Broadway Station renovations can be summarized as follows:

1) Station entrance on Broadway
- Remove existing 2 coiling grilles,
- Remove elevator,
- Relocate eletrical riser next to new elevator
- Install 2 new coiling grilles,
- Create a CRU

2) Centre stairs
- Reduce the width of the stairs, and install a new escalator

3) Centre of the station
- Accommodate the exist from Safeway and provide connection between Safeway and Station fire alarm systems
- Extend the concourse space by enclosing the currently exterior space to the south of the station
- Extend the concourse space by replacing west wall by glazing,
- Create 2 CRU's

4) South of the Station
- Remove existing emergency stairs,
- Create new stairs,
- Install a new elevator,
- Install 2 new coiling grilles.

5) General improvements
- improved lighting, 
- improved signage/wayfinding,
- new flooring,
- replacing metal mesh screens with glass panels.

6) Other
- expanded passarelle between Broadway and Commercial Drive Stations
- expanded entry to Commercial Drive Station from Commercial Drive 
- integration of adjacent paved area and implementation of customer amenities.

7) Cost
- $25 million



New South Entrance











Concourse level












Platform level


----------



## mr.x

*METROTOWN STATION REDESIGN*

Starting in January 2006, Translink and the City of Burnaby hired a team of consultants to recommend options for upgrading Metrotown Station, the second highest ridership SkyTrain station in the greater Vancouver region. The team engaged a variety of stakeholders from both agencies, along
with representatives from SkyTrain and Coast Mountain Bus Company. A Station Assessment report was completed, “Metrotown SkyTrain Station Transit Village Plan – Site Assessment & Design Concepts Report.” That report identified five key issues for the station plan to address:

• Ridership at Metrotown Station exceeds the existing station capacity, and ridership is projected to grow.
• No direct, accessible paths are provided at the station from any direction.
• The bus loop does not meet existing capacity needs and presents pedestrian safety hazards. 
• The superblock pattern of development at Metrotown reduces the station catchment area, particularly to high density housing to the north.
• The streets throughout the station area are oriented toward automobiles only and do not support high levels of walking.


In addition the site assessment recommended more detailed analysis of the following design options:


A) STATION BUILDING

1) West Entrance
- Improves circulation and expands capacity, including both vertical circulation and platform capacity.

2) Lengthened platform
- To improve the utility of a new west entrance, the platform may be lengthened by 20 metres to the west.

3) South platform
- Possible means to expand vertical circulation and platform capacity, but introduces operational, wayfinding and circulation challenges.

4) Expanded Mezzaine
- Connecting the east Station House to the existing elevator can provide accessible connection to passarelle and mall.
- Connecting the existing elevator to a future Station Square passarelle can provide an accessible connection to the mall.

5) Passarelle
- The existing passarelle to Metropolis can be widened to improve capacity
- A new passarelle can connect the existing elevator to Station Square.
- A new passarelle could connect a new west station house to a redeveloped Station Square

6) Bus Exchange
- Narrow Exchange: In this option, buses are looped around the station
building, with a new bus-only road between Central and Beresford. The BC Parkway would be routed on a dedicated path between the busway and Beresford.
- Wide Exchange: In this option, buses are looped around the station building, with a new bus-only road between Central and Beresford. The BC Parkway would be routed on a dedicated path between the busway and Beresford.

7) Bus Layover
- Central/Beresford: Buses laying over would be provided curb spaces
alongside the BC Parkway along Central and/or Beresford, immediately adjacent to the bus exchange
- Bus Loop: The existing bus loop would be used for layover.

8) Cost
- $25.071 million




































































































Station Area Strategies













Planning Area Strategies








































*Recommended Upgrade Elements*

There is a package of station improvements that clearly meet the study’s technical requirements and evaluation criteria. These include:

• Lengthened platform. The original Metrotown Station was designed to allow the platform to be lengthened to the west, in acknowledgement that this would be a high ridership station. Lengthening the platform allows trains to be staggered at the station, reducing crowding from passengers waiting to board trains. Lengthening the platform also puts the base of the stairs and escalators for a new west entrance precisely at the middle of a relocated bus exchange.

• West Station House. This is critical for two primary reasons: 1) It balances loads of passengers waiting for trains on the platform, relieving current crowding at the east end of the platform, and 2) It provides critical additional vertical circulation to the platform with out compromising passenger circulation on the platform through additional mid-platform stairs and escalators. A new West Station House strongly complements a lengthened plat form and relocation bus exchange.

• New elevators. The existing elevator is slow, opaque and inefficient. It would be replaced by a pair of modern, transparent elevators located at the new midpoint of the lengthened platform, allowing the existing elevator to remain in place during construction. The new elevators would provide redundancy, allowing one to maintain access to the platform while the other was closed for maintenance.

• Improved East Station House. Once the new West Station House is completed, the existing East Station House can be modernized. It would be made level with the passarelle, eliminating the existing steps. It would also be made more transparent, as in the Millennium Line Gilmore Station.

• Improved passarelle. The existing station passarelle would be widened and made more transparent to provide better passenger comfort and personal security. Stairs at the east Station House would be eliminated. The passarelle would also be redesigned to highlight the regional significance of the Metrotown station and area.

• Station roof and enclosure. A redesigned station roof and enclosure would not only provide weather protection for the entire length of the platform, but also provide more transparency and mark the station as a major landmark.

• Bus exchange. The bus exchange would be moved out of the current bus loop area and routed around the station itself. The bus loop would be maintained for bus layover, and as an important bus stop serving the front door of Metropolis.

• BC Parkway Improvements and urban plaza. Separated bicycle and pedestrian paths are included through the station area, connecting to continuous paths being implemented between New Westminster and Vancouver. At the station, care is taken to address conflicts between through cyclists and transit passengers. A very high level of design amenity is provided at the ground level to ensure both the functionality of the space as a major transit exchange, as well as a destination in its own right, as one of the symbolic “front doors” of Burnaby.

• Neighbourhood connections. Improved pedestrian access is provided on all sides, connecting to Maywood, ground level destinations north of Central, and second level destination at Metropolis and the MetroTowers.


----------



## mr.x

*MAIN STREET STATION REDESIGN*

In December 2006, Hotson Bakker Boniface Haden Architects + Urbanistes, BTY Quantity Surveyors Ltd., and Earth Tech Consulting Engineers were engaged by Translink to undertake schematic design and costing for renovations to the Main Street Expo Line Skytrain Station.

*Key Design Considerations*
• Enhancement of elevator and escalator access to the east end of the platform.
• Improving visual and experiential connections between the bus pick up and
drop off points (on both sides of Main Street) and the station entries.
• Enhancement of the mezzanine level on the west side of the platform.
• Enhancement of general pedestrian flow on both sides of the platform.
• Enhancement of adjacency challenges with respect to adjoining retail and residential space on the west side of Main Street.
• Improving the urban design condition.
• Increasing the revenue opportunities for the station if possible.
• Improving the platform experience.
• Enhancing the station’s overall architectural, visual and experiential qualities.



*Design Solution*

Skytrain/Bus Connection Improvements
- The design proposes extended canopies (bus shelters) on both sides of Main Street to enhance links between the Skytrain and the bus loading and offloading. In addition, stairs and escalators are reoriented to face Main Street.

Eastside Improvements
- A new station house is provided on the east side with reoriented two stage escalators, an elevator, and an architecturally unique oval security screen.

Westside Improvements
- A re-alignment and addition of an escalator onto the eastern face of the platform provides a direct visual link between the vertical circulation to the mezzanine level and the major bus offloading and loading point. The existing south facing entry will be upgraded with the an escalator and stairs will be
replaced. New retail space will be inserted along the Terminal Avenue street front.

Platform Improvements
- The existing platform remains intact with the exception of the east end addition. Architectural improvements include a clip-on to conceal the existing truss structure and a new glass safety barrier to replace the existing chain link barrier.

Cost
- $9.693 million




*Preferred Option*

The preferred option was then developed in terms of architectural form.


1) Skytrain/Bus Connection Improvements

In order to enhance the links between the Skytrain and the bus loading and offloading points on both side of the street, the preferred design proposes extended canopies (bus shelters) on both side of Main Street. The intention of these canopies is to allow transferring passengers to move under cover
from the bus to the Skytrain station and vice versa. In addition, in order to enhance these links, stairs and escalators are reoriented to face Main Street on both the west and east side of the platform.


2) Eastside Improvements

The insertion of a new station house on the east side with reoriented two stage escalators, and elevator, and an architecturally unique oval security screen is proposed. This accommodates the enhanced functional requirements for both escalators and elevators, minimizes the platform extension, and provides a dramatic architectural statement of station enhancement.



3) Westside Improvements

On the west side, a re-alignment and addition of an escalator on to the eastern face of the platform provides a direct visual link between the vertical circulation to the mezzanine level and the major bus offloading and loading point. While this design requires the reconfiguration of the existing Starbucks, it will enhance pedestrian flow and visual links between the bus passengers and the Skytrain entry. In addition the existing south facing entry will be upgraded with the addition of an escalator and the replacement of the stairs. Finally, new retail space will be inserted along the Terminal Avenue street
front. These new commercial spaces will enhance revenue opportunities and provide an inhabited streetscape along Terminal, while reducing the number of overhung dead spaces. This will have a positive impact from a CPTED perspective.


4) Platform Improvements

After reviewing several alternatives, it was decided that the most cost effective solution was to maintain the structure of the existing platform intact. This meant that there could be no increases (with the exception of the eastside escalator and elevator) to platform access capacity. Because of the nature of the existing station geometry any substantial increase in platform size would be extraordinarily costly. Consequently the focus was on an appropriate configuration of enhanced access at the street and mezzanine level. However, the east side enhancements would provide a much more effective way of accessing a somewhat undersized platform.

The design proposes a clip-on to conceal the existing truss structure of the platform roof. The intention of this clip-on is that there be a visual transformation of the canopy of the Main Street Station without any structural interventions. The agenda would be to create an aluminum face to the north and south side of the existing canopy structure. A lighting feature would be incorporated in this face. The clip on would allow the preservation of the existing skylights.

In addition, one of the weakest design aspects of the existing station is the chain link safety barrier. This is both visually unacceptable and does not provide any screening for the adjoining residences. The preferred design proposes a replacement of the chainlink fence with a glass railing. This glazing
could also provide a dramatic signage opportunity indicating both the name of the station and that of adjoining areas or buildings such as Southeast False Creek and/or Science World. The new barrier would also resolve the ongoing problem of neighbor complaints about lack of privacy.




























Proposed Ground Floor Plan













Proposed Mezzaine and Eastern Landing Floor Plans













Proposed Platform Floor Plan


----------



## officedweller

Thanks for posting.


----------



## officedweller

urbanfan89 said:


> The section in Richmond is single-tracked? Wow. Why didn't they leave the possibility of extending the line further south in the long term? We could eventually need an extension to Stevenson or even Delta in 50 years (if global warming doesn't destroy Richmond by then lol)


It's a requirement that the system be capable of being extended to the south. Not sure whether they would replace single guideway with double guideway - but that would be 50 years away. I think the preferred alternative is to feed streetcars from the lower density areas into the Canada Line.


----------



## officedweller

Updated Waterfront Station and Vancouver City Centre Station pics by Stephen Rees - formworks being placed at VCCS:

http://flickr.com/photos/stephen_rees/










TBM to arrive at Yaletown-Roundhouse Station in mid-September:

http://www.canadaline.ca/uploads/NewsReleases/News466.pdf


----------



## urbanfan89

Wow, that looks snazzy.


----------



## alta-bc

Looks great! This has been in the works for a while, hasn't it?
When will construction start?

What about New Westminster Station, won't it get affected dramatically by all that sourrounding development?


----------



## mr.x

alta-bc said:


> Looks great! This has been in the works for a while, hasn't it?
> When will construction start?
> 
> What about New Westminster Station, won't it get affected dramatically by all that surrounding development?


New Westminster Station will also get a huge redesign, but it's not in the hands of Translinks but rather part of an adjacent condo/retail development adjacent to the station.


----------



## Songoten2554

maybe for the Main Street Science world station it will offer a walkway or a connection to Pacific Central Station

is there pics of main Street Science world station with the pacific central station because i hear that the amtrak cacades and VIA and other railroads stop there


----------



## mr.x

Even more pictures by *Tafryn*, taken Sept. 26:



BROADWAY/CITY HALL STATION











































CAMBIE Cut & Cover Tunnel construction


----------



## mr.x

*Vancouver Transit Thread! | Discussion*

*Feds give BC $49.1 million to help buy new buses; most will be alternative energy*

11 minutes ago

VANCOUVER - The federal government is giving British Columbia money to buy 199 new buses for the Vancouver area and most of them will run on alternative fuels.

Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day said Friday the $49.1 million will come from the gas tax agreement between Ottawa and the provinces.

The money will contribute to the purchase of 90 new buses to expand the existing fleet and 109 buses that use alternative technology and will replace older buses.

"We're just so excited to see this moving ahead," said Day.

"It's a world-class example that can be looked to by other provinces and in fact by other countries in terms of moving ahead on the greener agenda."

The buses will be purchased next year.

Days said overall, B.C. will receive $635.6 million through 2010 under Ottawa's agreement to return more of the revenues collected from gas taxes to the provinces.

The total cost of the 199 new buses will be $139 million.

TransLink, the transit authority for the Vancouver area, will cover the remaining costs.

The gas tax agreement has already helped TransLink to buy 258 new buses in 2006 and 2007.




That's it?????:shrug:


----------



## zivan56

$49.1 million for 199 buses? They sure won't be trolley buses:
~$246,231 per bus...so probably "biodiesel" or CNG.

I just came back from a ride on the Nova Bus and was shocked to find out how little space there was in the back. I virtually had 3 seats available where I could fit without being really cramped when all seats were full. Sitting in the front/back facing row, my legs would have to go between the opposing passengers' in order to fit!


----------



## mr.x

zivan56 said:


> $49.1 million for 199 buses? They sure won't be trolley buses:
> ~$246,231 per bus...so probably "biodiesel" or CNG.
> 
> I just came back from a ride on the Nova Bus and was shocked to find out how little space there was in the back. I virtually had 3 seats available where I could fit without being really cramped when all seats were full. Sitting in the front/back facing row, my legs would have to go between the opposing passengers' in order to fit!


Nope, $49.1 million from feds goes towards helping Translink pay *the $139 million bill for these 199 new buses.* 

That means each bus, on average, will cost $700,000.


----------



## Vancouverite

My bet is on _diesel electric hybrids with B20 biodiesel_. King Country Transit in Seattle purchased a 200+ fleet of New Flyer DE60LF (diesel-electric 60 foot low floor) articulated buses to replace their old diesel-electric trolley fleet.

The Translink/Transport Canada - Urban Transportation Showcase Program - Alternative Fuel and Bus Technology Demonstration Project (my god that's a long program name) found that diesel electric hybrids with diesel particulate filters were the cleanest buses of the lot and simultaneously had the best fuel economy. Incidentally the new Nova Bus engines and diesel particulate filters are staggeringly clean compared to our conventional diesel buses and only a tiny bit behind the diesel electric hybrid.


----------



## mr.x

Pictures from CanadaLine.ca


VANCOUVER CITY CENTRE STATION






























NORTH ARM BRIDGE


----------



## mr.x

More pictures by Tafryn, taken Sept. 26:


KING EDWARD STATION

































































South section of the station is completed, has been refilled with dirt


----------



## mr.x

More pictures by *Tafryn*, Sept 27:


VANCOUVER CITY CENTRE STATION


----------



## harsh1802

Grt updates!


----------



## city_thing

Seems like half of Vancouver has been ripped up to build this line.

Great pics by the way. Do they all come from the official Canada line website? It's good that they're keeping the public informed with so many images.


----------



## city_thing

Double Post.


----------



## mr.x

city_thing said:


> Seems like half of Vancouver has been ripped up to build this line.
> 
> Great pics by the way. Do they all come from the official Canada line website? It's good that they're keeping the public informed with so many images.


Most of them are from a blog, some are from the Canada Line website.

http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/



And yes, the city has been ripped apart to build this line. Along the cut and cover section, only arterial routes are open.....that's about 6 roads open east-west. All small streets have been closed off.


----------



## officedweller

New Canada Line update on the Richmond Stations, incuding some pics (same ones we've seen before, but Bridgeport pic looks a bit different):

http://www.canadaline.ca/uploads/NewsReleases/News492.pdf

Summary of the Testing and Commissioning Phase (starting early 2008):

http://www.canadaline.ca/uploads/NewsReleases/News490.pdf


----------



## mr.x

thx for posting those links office, and here's that Bridgeport render:













Some more pics by *Tafryn*, Sept. 30:


ABERDEEN STATION


















































LANSDOWNE STATION

































RICHMOND-BRIGHOUSE STATION


----------



## Daguy

I've been thinking about this in my head and it really boggles my mind how much photography of the Canada Line construction has been taken/posted. I can't think of any rapid transit system that is, or maybe even was, this frequently photographed during its construction. For example there rarely seems to be photos posted of Seattle's light rail construction here, while we're getting updates on the Canada Line every couple days a lot of the time. I've even given up on touring the line's construction for the most part because of the amount of photography that has been posted.


----------



## UrbanBen

Daguy said:


> I've been thinking about this in my head and it really boggles my mind how much photography of the Canada Line construction has been taken/posted. I can't think of any rapid transit system that is, or maybe even was, this frequently photographed during its construction. For example there rarely seems to be photos posted of Seattle's light rail construction here, while we're getting updates on the Canada Line every couple days a lot of the time. I've even given up on touring the line's construction for the most part because of the amount of photography that has been posted.


I actually take quite a few pictures of Seattle's light rail construction - although there's not much more to see now, as nearly all of the heavy construction is done. I have a smattering here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/bensch


----------



## taiwanesedrummer36

UrbanBen said:


> I actually take quite a few pictures of Seattle's light rail construction - although there's not much more to see now, as nearly all of the heavy construction is done. I have a smattering here:
> http://picasaweb.google.com/bensch


I don't mind the extreme photography. It gives me a perspective to how much Vancouver has changed, since I went to Vancouver almost every weekend before the US Dollar started plunging.


----------



## dchengg

well right now;
i've realised that even if the poles have derailed on the new trolleys,
they dont go sticking up into the air poking through the wires;
but insteadl
they go down and the poles go parallel with a distance between the bus and the overheard wires which gives drivers the opportunity to "drive aside, or drive off" an intersection and then fix it after.

and speaking of those folded seats at the front of the bus,
i as a young man, even have trouble getting those seats down,
one factor is,
not much people know how to fold it down, knowing about the yellow thing

on another note;
have anyone of you guys experienced where the light at the back door sometimes wont liight up causing people cant get off the bus and yelling out "BACK DOOR!!" ?
it gets quite funny sometimes,


----------



## Daguy

Tafryn has posted some more pics of the construction (Langara Station) on his blog: 

http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/search/label/Langara - 49th Ave

Sorry I don't have time to post the pics but I'm busy with all nighter for a midterm tomorrow =)


----------



## officedweller

Thanks for the heads up.
This Oakridge Station pic from Tafryn shows the underpass under the platform (to get to the northbound platform from the Station house). i.e you can see the train tunnel is a level above the lowest part of the station excavation. I would have preferred a mezzanine configuration.


----------



## deasine

^well supposedly, TransLink said that if it would to implement a smart card system, it can scan within centimeters of the scanner. For instance, they would mount some scanning device on the back of a bus. You enter the back of the bus, and it would be able to scan it. 

But I think the main concern is enforcement. TransLink needs better enforcement. Maybe even have the SkyTrain attendants to check tickets, not just the transit police. I see skytrain attendants everywhere but none ask for ticket. 

Broadway station had some hanging bar with these black sensors on them (the pedestrian overpass between Broadway and Commercial). I asked TransLink what they were (i asked the urban showcase rep and the translink contact rep) and no answers were given yet...


----------



## spongeg

i can get into my office with a card - i don't even have to take the card out of my wallet and sometimes even your pocket but i don't like waving my ass in front of the thing - haha

those cards can be held a fair distance away sometimes - well the newer ones - our old building we would have to place the card right on the reader to get it to work

so i can imagine they could have scan readers that hardly have interuption to riders


----------



## officedweller

Maybe the sensors at Broadway & Commercial are for passenger counts at the transfer point.

I wouldn't want an activation scanner that is too sensitive. I may be carryng more than one smartcard in my wallet and I wouldn't want to pay twice for the same ride. I prefer a system that requires you to swipe or touch it to a scanner.


----------



## mr.x

more pics by *Tafryn*, Oct. 15:


OLYMPIC VILLAGE STATION




















BROADWAY/CITY HALL STATION





























































































YVR-AIRPORT STATION


----------



## city_thing

The stations seem quite shallow. How many feet/metres down are they, if you know?

And Mr.X, the end quote in your signature is brilliant. I'm glad to see someone else out there has a brain and realises the modern political climate isn't as perfect as others would like to believe.


----------



## officedweller

The depth varies - that's one of the advantages of cut and cover construction - the stations are easily accessible. The downtown stations are deeper (maybe 60 ft down?)


----------



## mr.x

a 40-metre platform


----------



## mr.x

*TransLink to ponder cheap transit for field trips*

By Jeff Nagel
Black Press

Oct 17 2007

A group of teachers say TransLink should provide a transit price break for groups of students going on school field trips.

Krista Tulloch, a Vancouver teacher, said costs have gone up for school trips after TransLink ended a mid-day discount for school groups travelling at off-peak hours. Students now have to pay up to $6 for a three-zone round trip, and that will rise to $7 when fare hikes take effect in January.

“We’re seeing a great reduction in the types of field trips teachers are willing to take,” Tulloch said, noting transit now costs more than admission to some destinations.

“It restricts the opportunities are students are getting to learn,” she said, delivering a 340-signature petition at TransLink’s Oct. 10 meeting.

Tulloch also argued that fostering the use of use of transit in school children at an early age pays dividends for TransLink in the form of increased transit use later on.

“They’re not learning that transit habit now,” she said.

Tulloch wants TransLink to let booked school groups pay a single one-zone fare for unlimited off-peak travel.

TransLink chair Malcolm Brodie said the authority will consider the request.

School trips are going to get more challenging yet in 2008, Tulloch said, noting that’s when new rules governing child car seat restraints take effect that may preclude many trips for young school children in private vehicles.

Other TransLink news:
*
PARK & RIDE HIKES OKAYED*

Opponents of higher fees at some of TransLink’s Park and Rides suffered a quick defeat at the board’s Oct. 10 meeting.

Directors quickly ratified a staff decision to increase rates to park at the lots at Scott Road SkyTrain station and at West Coast Express stations.

Port Moody Mayor Joe Trasolini voted against the hikes.

Daily rates doubled in September to $2, while monthly rates climbed from $15 to $40.

Estimated revenue from the parking lots is forecast to more than double from a current $587,000 per year to $1.3 million.

*TICKET EXPIRY TIMES TO STAY*

A move to extend how long transit tickets are valid has fizzled.

Vancouver Coun. Peter Ladner wanted the expiry time for proof-of-payment tickets increased from 90 minutes to two hours. He argued the current valid time for a ride sometimes isn’t enough to cover a long trip on the system, especially if congestion is heavy.

TransLink staff reject the idea, saying a wider window of time would cut into TransLink revenues and give much more opportunity to illegal ticket-flippers, who resell discarded but still valid tickets, often for drug money. It would also have required reprogramming ticket vending machines at a cost of $100,000.

TransLink has had only 34 formal complaints in the past two years about the 90-minute ticket time. “This issue does not seem to be a major concern to most customers,” a staff report said.

It also notes TransLink’s planned move to a smart card payment system in the next few years will likely bring in an entirely new fare structure that would eliminate current zones and instead charge based on actual distance travelled. Transit riders may also have more time to use tickets than many realize.

“The proof of payment is still valid as long as the passenger boards the last link of their trip before 90 minutes,” the report says, noting someone could board SkyTrain or a bus 85 minutes after buying or validating the ticket, then legally ride for another 40 minutes for a total trip of more than two hours.

In addition, there’s also a six-minute grace period, so passengers can board as late as the 96-minute mark.
*
BIKE IDEA BACKED*

TransLink will investigate the idea of offering affordable bike rentals in parts of the region.

The proposal was advanced by Vancouver Coun. Peter Ladner and approved at the authority’s October board meeting. There is no commitment to spend money yet.

Ladner sees a system similar to one in Paris, where bikes can be rented at one location and dropped off at another and the costs are subsidized through advertising.

He said it would likely make most sense in more dense parts of the region.

“Is this going to rob ridership from our transit system?” asked Pitt Meadows Mayor Don MacLean.

TransLink officials said bike use and transit actually complement each other, with bikes often helping extend the distance a passenger will otherwise tolerate walking to get to or from a transit route.

The challenge is meeting the demand to take bikes on transit.

Each bus is limited to carrying two bikes on their racks – some of which still can’t be used after dark because they obstruct headlights. And SkyTrain cars are limited to two as well, only during off-peak hours.

*SECRET MEETING*

TransLink chair Malcolm Brodie won’t reveal the deliberations of an Oct. 5 in-camera meeting of TransLink directors and Metro Vancouver mayors.

The topic was the 30-year transportation vision for the region, and how it will fit with land-use planning.

“That was not a public meeting, therefore I’m not going to be discussing that,” Brodie said, responding to questions.

He said the meeting wasn’t a TransLink board meeting – which would be subject to normal rules regarding when meetings can be closed – but rather a special committee that included all TransLink directors formed as part of the province’s transition to reform TransLink.

A discussion paper circulated at the meeting is entitled “Transport 2040: Now is the Time.” It describes a Lower Mainland in 2040 with 1.3 million more people, 600,000 more cars and a tripling of container traffic. By then, it predicts, “most people use public transit, walk or cycle for the majority of their trips.”

The document stresses the challenges of climate change and an aging population on top of growth. It forecasts efficient road networks that will speed goods and people in low-emissions vehicles while giving trucks and transit road priority.

Communities would be concentrated near a Frequent Transit Network.

Consultations are to begin late this year on the 30-year transportation strategy. After it’s approved, TransLink is to draw up a more specific 10-year plan of specific projects.

*IN THE BLACK*

TransLink is heading for a $65-million budget surplus this year, about $17 million more than forecast.

That should boost the authority’s cumulative surplus to $386 million, providing money for future years when operating costs are expected to rise.

The better-than-expected results in the first half of the year is partly due to higher gas tax revenues. The fuel tax take was up $5.7 million higher than forecast, despite a decrease. Gasoline sales in the region are down so far in 2007 – as motorists switch to more fuel-efficient vehicles or cut driving – but haven’t fallen as fast as projected.


----------



## alta-bc

mr.x said:


> a 40-metre platform


Isn't this the Porto Metro? They have 70m platforms.


----------



## mr.x

^ yea, but within that image that is what a 30 to 40-metre platform would look like.


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## alta-bc

mr.x said:


> ^ yea, but within that image that is what a 30 to 40-metre platform would look like.


I think the max we are seeing in that image is about 30m. Their trainsets are 35m and we don't quite see the end of the train. So, I'd say, tack on 10m and that's what we will get!


----------



## taiwanesedrummer36

alta-bc said:


> I think the max we are seeing in that image is about 30m. Their trainsets are 35m and we don't quite see the end of the train. So, I'd say, tack on 10m and that's what we will get!


Damn, that's small!


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## deasine

Well more $$$ should be placed in public transit projects. Across the nation, we see $$$ just pooring automatically from federal and provincial gov'ts to public transit infrastructure. Vancouver needs more rapid transit lines...


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## isaidso

Small? That's beyond small. Anything less than 50 metres is short sighted. They won't be too happy in 30 years when they realize the stations can't handle the capacity.


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## mr.x

isaidso said:


> Small? That's beyond small. Anything less than 50 metres is short sighted. They won't be too happy in 30 years when they realize the stations can't handle the capacity.


Correction: 10-15 years


I wouldn't be surprised if we had crowding issues at some stations within 5 years.


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## Plumber73

^^You've done the math, or is it more of a guestamate?


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## deasine

No math needed. Vancouver-Richmond commute is continuing to grow and there are never enough buses. Adding to the fact that commuter buses will stop at Richmond: commuters must board the Canada Line, five years and transportation planners will have to scratch their heads. By the sixth year, I can guarantee there will be an annoucement for longer trains and more trains. Seventh year, we would double track richmond and YVR. Tenth year, transportation planners go back to the drawing table.


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## mr.x

Plumber73 said:


> ^^You've done the math, or is it more of a guestamate?


Well, given that a lot of bus routes are going to be replaced by the Canada Line and others will be terminating at the Canada Line. A lot of ridership will be transplanted onto the Canada Line. Then there's all the new ridership.

I highly doubt the Canada Line will be another Millennium Line dud for its first few years. This is a really busy corridor. It's going to take off quite quickly...especially with these short platforms and trains.


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## dchengg

i find it embarassing for a world class city that will be presenting itself to the world in 2010; regardless of whether the Canada Line has anything to do with the olympics first of all; but the trains, compared to other "not-so well known" cities, our trains are basically like toy trains!


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## officedweller

Yeah, but compare this to the cost of Toronto's Spadina Line extension - full scale subway at $2 Billion for 8.7 km.


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## mr.x

*New TransLink board seen as 'erosion of democracy'*
Power to raise property taxes

Frank Luba, The Province
Published: Thursday, November 01, 2007

Democracy will be the loser when the province changes how TransLink is run, according to Simon Fraser University political science professor Patrick Smith.

Legislative debate on Bill 43, which turns the Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority into the South Coast British Columbia Transportation Authority, resumes next week.

Smith objects to the "erosion of local democracy" represented by the proposed nine-member board of industry professionals that will run TransLink.

Like the current board of elected municipal politicians, the new appointed board will be able to raise property taxes, change taxation classifications, accumulate property and run its own police force.

A council of regional mayors will meet quarterly but will only vote on supplements to the base plan proposed by the new board, which is supposed to take office Jan 1.

"You're creating this significant regional agency which will have significant decision-

making powers and removing it from local accountability," Smith said yesterday.

"It fails the democracy test," he said. "It's designed to have [Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon's] agenda move forward with the fewest hiccups."

Municipal legal expert Jonathan Baker is also critical.

"I think it fails the administrative test," said Baker, a lawyer and former Vancouver city councillor. "It seems outrageous that you have an appointed body doing that sort of thing.

"It seems to me the public should have the right to vote out of power someone that levies a property tax if they don't like it. Didn't someone once say that taxation without representation is tyranny?"

But the government believes the new structure is better.

"I would argue better accountability because every single mayor is involved now," said Falcon. "Every single mayor will have the opportunity to participate in the construction of the alternate 10-year plan, the strategic plan.

"They will be the ones to vote on whether to accept the alternative plan or just continue operating on the base plan they have in place today.

"Under the new model, any new tax measures will have to be authorized and approved by the mayors' council and that's all of the mayors represented on that council."

In addition to the mayors' council, there will also be an independent transit commissioner to investigate TransLink's plans and fare increases.

[email protected]


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## a340

*long time forum reader, first time poster.*

Group of teenage girls swarm female transit bus driver
Thursday, November 01 - 03:30:34 PM Mike Hanafin

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - Vancouver Police are investigating a disturbing swarming attack on a transit bus driver last night in East Vancouver. Police say it happened after the woman driver stopped at Commerical Drive and Napier around 10:30 pm.

Police say when she offered Halloween candy to a group of teenage girls, they dragged her out of the bus and beat her up, with 2 teenage girls wearing Santa Suits doing most of the assaulting. The VPD says it was unprovoked, with no evidence the bus driver did anything to trigger the assault. The driver was traumatized but police report no serious injuries.

Drew Snider with TransLink says the incident brings up the ongoing issue of driver safety. "We have been taking measures with the union and other experts to improve that. One of the things we're doing is bringing in a new radio transmission system, which will allow drivers to communicate immediately if there's a threat to their safety."

About an hour later, the same vacant bus was lit on fire while it was waiting to be driven back to the TransLink garage. Police say early indications show the fire was intentionally set. Graffiti was also written on the bus. Both the police and fire departments are investigating.



















*This is simply a disgusting act.*


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## mr.x

^ it's terrible, i hope those people are found and get jail time. this just means that transit drivers might get their own "cage" in the buses.

btw, from the pictures it looks like it was a $1.2 million new trolley that was set on fire.


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## deasine

how do we know that's a trolley?


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## mr.x

deasine said:


> how do we know that's a trolley?


the paint scheme, the tires, the rear, and the fact it happened on Commercial - lots of trolleys.


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## zivan56

It was a trolley. Less than 6 months on the road...I hope they find these people and make them pay for the cost of a new trolley doing forced labour in a 3rd world prison...


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## deasine

mr.x said:


> the paint scheme, the tires, the rear, and the fact it happened on Commercial - lots of trolleys.



The rear yeah it's a trolley XD... I have to say the paint scheme one is wrong though... there are so many buses with that paint scheme =) Sigh but that paint scheme means New Flyer... which means squeaky buses HAHA I'm going off topic.


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## worldwide

wow that is completely outrageous. who would do something like that


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## Westcoast604

zivan56 said:


> It was a trolley. Less than 6 months on the road...I hope they find these people and make them pay for the cost of a new trolley doing forced labour in a 3rd world prison...


Agreed.


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## nova9

I've seen that pack of girls before. They act more thug-like than many of the pimps and dealers in DTES. These girls should be incarcerated...or sent to Bountiful, BC.


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## mr.x

nova9 said:


> I've seen that pack of girls before. They act more thug-like than many of the pimps and dealers in DTES. These girls should be incarcerated...or sent to Bountiful, BC.


what do you mean you've seen them? what are they like???

i heard they were aboriginal.


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## zivan56

If you have seen them before, please contact the police and let them know where. Even if it's a hunch (you can't get into any trouble even if it turns out to be incorrect). I sure hope the officer has a taser on hand and they end up resisting arrest...


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## deasine

oh yeah that hsould be used right now... perfect timing...


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## nova9

I bet you it was the same pack of girls (i doubt they're human) that attack that couple a few years back.


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## mr.x

From CanadaLine.ca:


The Launching Girder (truss) known as LG1, sits on the east side of Cambie Street at 64th Avenue awaiting re-assembly. Upon re-assembly elevated guideway work will begin at the Tunnel Portal and will move south to the Fraser River where the guideway will connect with the Canada Lineâ€™s North Arm Bridge.










Columns and Bents for Marine Drive Station on the east side of Cambie Street south of S.W. Marine Drive.


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## worldwide

mr.x said:


> what do you mean you've seen them? what are they like???
> 
> i heard they were aboriginal.



at commercial and napier.... thats a pretty educated guess


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## mr.x

worldwide said:


> at commercial and napier.... thats a pretty educated guess


then you should really call the VPD, or the Crime Stoppers hotline.


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## jlousa

Don't worry VPD knows who they are and where they can be found. They are building the case as we speak. Unfortunately I don't expect the outcome will be fitting enough.


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## worldwide

mr.x said:


> then you should really call the VPD, or the Crime Stoppers hotline.



and i could tell them that i seen some natives o'er on commercial...


i wasnt the guy who said he knows them or has seen them im just rambling


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## mr.x

More pictures by *Tafryn*, Oct. 26/29:


YVR-AIRPORT STATION




































































CAMBIE CUT































KING EDWARD STATION


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## mr.x

*SkyTrain fare gates earlier dismissed as too costly*

Vancouver Sun
Published: Friday, November 09, 2007

VANCOUVER - Putting fare gates on SkyTrain and the Canada Line would cost more than $30 million a year to install and operate and reduce fare evasion by less than $3 million, a report prepared by TransLink's staff predicted just two years ago.

On Thursday, Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon announced plans to install fare gates in a bid to reduce fare evasion and improve public safety.

The proposal - which Falcon says will be paid for entirely by the province - has the support of Richmond Mayor Malcolm Brodie, TransLink's chair.

However, in December 2005, TransLink's board overwhelmingly rejected fare gates after a detailed report by its staff found it wouldn't come anywhere close to paying for itself.

Vancouver city Coun. Peter Ladner, a TransLink board member, said Friday he was not sure why gates are a better idea now than they were two years ago.

"I'm quite puzzled by this decision and I'm looking forward to hearing the justification for it," he said.

He noted TransLink has already invested millions of dollars in hiring SkyTrain police to reduce fare evasion.

"I'd like to see ... whether we can achieve the same goal with a better use of their resources rather than jumping into a system we've previously decided didn't make economic sense," he said.

George Puil, who was chairman of TransLink from 1998 to 2003, said the board looked at fare gates twice during his tenure and was convinced both times that they cost more than they were worth.

"I think the money could be used elsewhere," he said. "You could use it to have more police ... around SkyTrain stations."

In an interview Friday, Falcon estimated that installing fare gates at all stations would cost in the "$80 million to $100 million range."

*He acknowledged, however, that only covers one-time construction costs. TransLink's 2005 report estimated that, on top of that, it would also have to hire nearly 400 attendants to staff the gates, both to ensure people weren't jumping over them and to let through those who can't use them, such as people with excess luggage or in wheelchairs.

Combined with the costs of installing the new gates, amortized over 20 years, the 2005 report put the total annual cost of fare gates at $32.2 million.

In contrast, it estimated gates would reduce fare evasion by only $2.9 million. Based on extensive spot checks, TransLink estimates that about 4.9 per cent of SkyTrain revenues are lost through fare evasion. Falcon and Brodie said they think the rate is much higher.

"There's no way in an open system you're going to be losing that little," said Falcon. He said transit operators in Europe told him their fare-evasion rates are as high as 30 per cent.*

However, neither Falcon or Brodie was able to identify any flaws with the way TransLink compiled its figures.

"I just believe the numbers are higher [from] the times I've ridden the system," said Brodie. "It's not scientific, it's anecdotal. But I certainly believe it."[/color][/B]

The report states that many people believe fare evasion is higher than it really is because they see so many people get on the train without buying a ticket.

However, TransLink spokesman Ken Hardie said most of those people actually have paid, either by buying a monthly pass or transferring from a bus.
*
Falcon said he's convinced that, over time, gates will pay for themselves by reducing evasion. But even if they don't, he said, the province thinks it is worth doing to reduce crime on transit. In the first six months of this year, TransLink's police service recorded 189 drug crimes, 381 property crimes and 239 violent crimes.*

Simon Fraser University criminologist Paul Brantingham said research suggests fare gates can deter crime both on the transit system itself and around stations, by making it more of a hassle for criminals to get on.

Nancy La Vigne, an expert on transit crime at the Urban Institute in Washington, D.C., said it may seem strange that a two-dollar fare would deter any criminal from using SkyTrain. But she said research shows most criminals are not very motivated, committing crimes only when the opportunity arises. The hassle and cost of a turnstile, she said, will be enough for many to hang out elsewhere.

"Little changes that make things more difficult can have a big impact," she said.

[email protected]


© Vancouver Sun


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## Canada_Line

mr.x said:


> Exclusive Skyscrapercity/Skyscraperpage pictures of the first four Canada Line Rotem trains (8 cars) being loaded onto a ship in South Korea, bound for Vancouver.
> 
> *A huge thanks to our friends at the Canada Line Project Office:*




looks like that really was the final design, then...


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## officedweller

The trains will be painted in Canada.


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## officedweller

Note that the $32.2M per year includes the amortization of the initial capital costs. If those capital costs are covered by the Province, the annual operating costs should be lower than the $32.2M.


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## officedweller

Good article criticizing the City of Vancouver for not densifying around Skytrain Stations:

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=17481292-c723-4411-a184-12723a431a15&p=1



> *Key density growth to SkyTrain stations*
> 
> Bob Ransford, Vancouver Sun
> Published: Saturday, November 10, 2007
> 
> Public transit infrastructure should follow dense urban growth. Public transit infrastructure should be in place to attract more dense growth.
> 
> Density or urban infill growth and transit infrastructure need to be planned simultaneously and are dependent on each other.
> 
> Which of the foregoing three statements is correct when it comes to managing growth in a rapidly growing urban region?
> 
> Hopefully, common sense would tell you that we should plan density, or urban infill growth, at the same time we are planning the expansion of our integrated transit network in Metro Vancouver.
> 
> Unfortunately, there's a shortage of common sense when it comes to our governing institutions and their decision-makers.
> 
> Mayor Sam Sullivan says that today, transit ridership in the Broadway corridor tops 60,000 people a day. He says this justifies the need to extend the Millennium SkyTrain system from Clark Drive all the way west to UBC.
> 
> I recall a similar argument being made when politicians were attempting to justify a $1-billion-plus expenditure on the Richmond-Airport-Vancouver rapid transit line a few years ago.
> 
> That project, now topping $2 billion as it approaches completion, runs through a continuous corridor of low-to medium-density development in Vancouver. There are a number of nodes south of the downtown peninsula where significant growth could occur along the Cambie Street-Canada Line corridor, but "could" is the operative word. Whether or not growth does occur along the Cambie corridor is up to Mayor Sullivan and Vancouver city council.
> 
> One small developer has been working for at least two years trying to get approval to build six fee-simple townhomes on a single-family lot that fronts directly on Cambie, not far from one of the Canada Line stations.
> 
> Not only will it be a model development for the kind of row-housing developments that don't yet exist in this city, it is a form of modest density in an area that should welcome even more density.
> 
> Plans have been drafted for some modest new infill development around one of the more important Canada Line stations -- Oakridge -- at 41st Avenue. There are four other stations south of the density that will occur near the Olympic Village station on the southeast corner of False Creek. Density needs to occur around each of these stations, just as it is being planned around at least three of Richmond's four Canada Line stations.
> 
> We can't afford to build a $2-billion transit system and have it serve an under-built corridor. The Canada Line was supposed to serve a corridor with existing density. It was also supposed to attract new density. Many would argue that the density it served was primarily commercial and institutional density, and not residential density. If the Oakridge plan is any indicator of the type of density increases we can expect to see around the other Canada Line stations, the whole project has failed.
> 
> There are already two transit corridors that run east-west through the eastern part of the city where growth has yet to live up to the potential that rapid transit was meant to spur. One line has been in place for more than two decades.
> 
> The other, about a decade. There are at least five transit stations along these two lines where the predominant form of residential development within walking distance of the station is still single-family residential.
> 
> What is an appropriate density along these transit lines and around their stations? Look at how Burnaby has planned growth around most of the 11 stations in that municipality. Infill development around the Patterson, Metrotown and Edmonds stations has now matured and is a good example of the kind of medium- to high-density development that should be developed around transit stations.
> 
> Similar growth is underway around at least three or four other SkyTrain stations in Burnaby.
> 
> Surrey is also beginning to see the potential for infill growth around its SkyTrain stations. That city has the potential of developing an entire new downtown around the Surrey Central station.
> 
> It seems as though decision-makers and developers in Surrey are beginning to realize that potential.
> 
> That leaves Vancouver. Before the mayor talks a lot more about extending the rapid transit system along Broadway, perhaps he can demonstrate what the city is prepared to accommodate in terms of new growth around Vancouver's existing SkyTrain stations.
> 
> Bob Ransford is a public affairs consultant with CounterPoint Communications Inc. He is a former real estate developer who specializes in urban land use issues. E-mail: [email protected]
> 
> © The Vancouver Sun 2007


----------



## mr.x




----------



## taiwanesedrummer36

Interesting designs. The only thing I don't like about the Canada Line through Richmond is that it doesn't run in the median. Since it's running along the eastside, it kind of blocks the businesses along the eastside of No. 3 Road, not to mention presenting a big, gray eyesore. But with the design treatments and the redevelopment, i'm sure it won't be a problem.


----------



## mr.x

taiwanesedrummer36 said:


> Interesting designs. The only thing I don't like about the Canada Line through Richmond is that it doesn't run in the median. Since it's running along the eastside, it kind of blocks the businesses along the eastside of No. 3 Road, not to mention presenting a big, gray eyesore. But with the design treatments and the redevelopment, i'm sure it won't be a problem.


the main reason why it's built on the eastside rather on the existing B-Line media is so that to create a more urban and intimate street atmosphere. Richmond didn't want a obtrusive bulky guideway....which would also likely have required a mezzaine and pedestrian overpasses to the sides of the streets - very much like Brentwood Station on the M-Line.

These were some old renderings created by the City of Richmond in 2004:


----------



## mr.x

*NDP MLAs unveil strategy to make SkyTrain stations safer*

Doug Ward, Vancouver Sun
Published: Monday, November 12, 2007

VANCOUVER - The provincial NDP supports the B.C. Liberal government's proposal to install turnstiles at every SkyTrain and Canada Line station - but the opposition party doesn't want to wait until a private partner is found to build and operate the system.

*NDP MLA Adrian Dix told reporters today that Victoria should give TransLink a direct grant from the provincial surplus to quickly develop a system of transit fare gates.*

"We shouldn't waste money on private-sector schemes. We have the resources now to make the system safer," said Dix. 

Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon announced plans last week to install turnstiles in an attempt to cut fare evasion and improve public safety.

Falcon also said he hopes to find a private partner to run the fare gate system on a revenue-sharing basis.

*Dix said he supports turnstiles because they will reduce crime at transit stations - not because he thinks they will pay for themselves.*

"It's clear that the incremental revenue from turnstiles will not pay for the capital construction," Dix told reporters. "So this has to be a decision that improves transit security and safety at stations."

Falcon said last week that the cost of turnstiles would be recovered eventually by reducing fare evasion.

Dix said that turnstiles would increase security by making it more difficult for criminals to get into a SkyTrain station.

"I think SkyTrain suffers from being a bit of an uncontrolled atmosphere right now."

Dix spoke about turnstiles during a NDP press conference held to unveil the party's 10-step strategy to cut crime at transit stations.

The NDP's proposals include:

*- Increasing the number of SkyTrain police by 50 per cent until there is one security person at every station while a line is in operation.

- Provide additional after-hours security at all stations.

- Implement a pilot walk-home program for at least five high-risk stations.*

Dix was joined at the media event by Dave Toner, whose son Matthew was beaten to death at Surrey Central SkyTrain station in 2005.

Toner, co-founder of Families Against Crime and Trauma, said that TransLink promised in August that it would provide 24-hour policing at a number of SkyTrain stations.

"We've been pressing them to honor their commitments. You can't put a price on public safety," said Toner.

The press conference was held at the 29th Street Station in East Vancouver, said Dix, because a vicious attack on a woman took place near the station in April and another six attacks have taken place within a few blocks.

Dix said that security at stations is essential if transit is going to become a key component of the region's climate change strategy. If governments are urging people to use transit, said Dix, "we have an absolute obligation to ensure their safety."




© Vancouver Sun


----------



## worldwide

hay guys.

i was wondering if anyone can help me out. i am looking for ridership numbers for the 99 and 97 B lines. has this been oficially published anywhere?. 

also does anyone have any links to articles about the evergreen or millenium extension, other than what has been posted in this thread? thanks.


----------



## mr.x

worldwide said:


> hay guys.
> 
> i was wondering if anyone can help me out. i am looking for ridership numbers for the 99 and 97 B lines. has this been oficially published anywhere?.
> 
> also does anyone have any links to articles about the evergreen or millenium extension, other than what has been posted in this thread? thanks.


1) 
99 B-Line: 60,000 passengers/day
98 B-LineL 40,000 passengers/day
97 B-Line: 7,000 passengers/day

2) Go to Google News and search up "Millennium Line" and "Evergreen Line"


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## worldwide

thanks alot mr X. do you have the published source of those numbers if i may ask?


----------



## mr.x

worldwide said:


> thanks alot mr X. do you have the published source of those numbers if i may ask?


sorry, no. those numbers have been stuck in my head for quite awhile... to me it's equivalent to knowing the population of Vancouver, or BC, or Canada.


----------



## worldwide

ok thanks. i'll see what i can pull up


----------



## deasine

i find it soo funny that they stuck betwood station on top of Westminster Hwy. XD

thank god we did not go with light rail... though our current system isn't really that much better =P


----------



## Daguy

I know the quality on this shot isn't the greatest, but it was as good as I could do from the plane at the moment 

It's too bad it wasn't daytime when I was landing. Anyways I got a shot of the bridgeport area of the Canadaline at dusk. I wanted to take a shot of the North Arm Bridge but I was on the wrong side of the plane.


----------



## officedweller

Try going to the Translink website and looking at the Board reports - under "Board News" then left side margin for agendas and minute. Previous year's ridership figures are usually reported in the spring.


----------



## Daguy

*Canada Line Photos*

Canada Line Pics from today:


North of Cambie and Broadway











South of Broadway/City Hall Station




















King Edward Station (Yay paved over!)











Oakridge - 41st Ave. Station





























Marine Dr. Station (Start of Guideway work)





























North Arm Bridge


----------



## worldwide

ok thanks. i found some numbers from 2006 and im sure theyre not acurate at all. i'll look into that


----------



## mr.x

*Cost of turnstiles greater than losses from unpaid fares*
Transport minister wants them but board worries about funding

Frank Luba, The Province
Published: Thursday, November 15, 2007

Installing turnstiles in SkyTrain and Canada Line rapid-transit stations will cost about $14 million more a year than the turnstiles will recover in previously unpaid fares, TransLink estimates show.

"Where's the money to pay for this expensive technology?" TransLink chairman Malcolm Brodie asked yesterday after the second-to-last meeting of the TransLink board, before it's replaced by a board of professionals.

Brodie referred questions about turnstiles to the B.C. government.

Based on what he saw of transit systems on a recent trip to Europe, Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon revealed last week he wants turnstiles at all rapid-transit stations.

On Tuesday, Falcon said the process to acquire the security and fare-evasion-prevention system will begin in 2008.

TransLink previously grappled with the security-gating issue in December 2005 as it pertained to the now-being-built Canada Line.

While making sure gates could be added to the new line, the board then decided on a variety of other measures, such as having more police and going to prepaid fares.

The extra costs of gating were a key factor in the decision.

A 2005 report indicates gates would require extra staff that will cost $25.1 million in 2009 when the Canada Line to Richmond is due to open.

Add another $3.5 million annually for the capital cost of the equipment for a grand total of $28.6 million for turnstiles.

Cheating on the two existing SkyTrain lines costs TransLink about $3.3 million annually, with the predicted evasion on the Canada Line being about $1 million.

If that total of $4.3 million is subtracted from the $28.6-million annual capital and operating cost, the annual cost for turnstiles would be $24.3 million.

But the final turnstile cost of $14.3 million can be arrived at when another $10 million is subtracted because that is the cost of the 52 police officers that will be hired, regardless of gating.

Despite the board's decision, Brodie personally supports turnstiles, saying he believes "the fare evasion is actually higher [than staff estimates]."

[email protected]


----------



## mr.x

photo tour of Richmond's No.3 Road by *bils:*











site loading for the aberdeen expansion









aberdeen station


















guideway lighting!!!!!!!


















crossing lansdowne road




































prado (foreground) & versante (background) U/C near lansdowne station









nearing brighouse station


----------



## taiwanesedrummer36

^^

Is No. 3 Road going to be four lanes for the time being or something (based on the 1st & 4th photos)?


----------



## mr.x

taiwanesedrummer36 said:


> ^^
> 
> Is No. 3 Road going to be four lanes for the time being or something (based on the 1st & 4th photos)?


depends on construction, and it varies on different sections on No.3 Road.


----------



## mr.x

A ton of more pictures by *Tafryn*, Nov. 18:

YVR-AIRPORT STATION














































































OPERATIONS & MAINTENANCE CENTRE, NORTH ARM BRIDGE, BRIDGEPORT STATION


----------



## Daguy

Canada Line Pics from Today:


Langara - 49 Ave Station





























Elevated Guideway Crossing Marine Drive


----------



## mr.x

the pace of activity is really impressive.


----------



## taiwanesedrummer36

Man, I wish Taipei's Neihu Line progressed as fast as the Canada Line....


----------



## Daguy

At this point I think I'd be comfortable to take a wager that it will open early, though I'm not sure for how much and how early. :lol:


----------



## mr.x

Daguy said:


> At this point I think I'd be comfortable to take a wager that it will open early, though I'm not sure for how much and how early. :lol:


At the most, a few weeks. The last few stations will be completed in 2009, and there's a lot of testing to do.


----------



## mr.x

*10-blocks of Cambie Street to re-open to traffic today*
Section of Canada Line tunnel has been completed and paved over

Vancouver Province
Published: Tuesday, November 20, 2007

Cambie Street will reopen to full traffic between 29th and 39th Avenues on Wednesday.

A 'road re-opening' celebration featuring representatives from Canada Line, InTransit BC and Cambie Street Constructors is scheduled for 10 a.m. at 39th and Cambie. Immediately after the ceremony, traffic will be rerouted and allowed on the just-completed section of road above the Canada Line tunnel.


© Vancouver Province 2007


----------



## mr.x

*Ice on Vancouver trolley lines disrupts morning commute*
Staff Reporter, The Province
Published: Thursday, November 22, 2007

Ice on Vancouver's trolley lines caused major delays for morning-rush commuters Thursday.

TransLink brought in special trolleys with ice cutters to clear the lines, as many of the trolleys were forced to pull off their routes.

To pick up the slack, diesel buses were brought in on routes served by trolleys, meaning a slight reduction in service for other routes served by the buses.

Suburban routes coming into Vancouver also picked up local customers and B-Line buses did pickups at all stops to pick up stranded passengers.

TransLink spokesman Drew Snider said mid-morning that trolley service was slowly being restored, but warned commuters there would be major delays throughout the morning rush.

The temperature downtown barely topped 1 Celsius at 10:30 a.m. under clear, sunny skies.

© The Vancouver Province 2007


----------



## zivan56

The new 60 foot diesel buses have been arriving (notice the B-Line markings), but they have not put them into service yet. Looks exactly like the 60 foot electric trolley, but without the thing at the top.
Pictures here
Also, another electric articulated trolley has shown up in Vancouver. It has the number 2507 and still has it's Manitoba license plate.


----------



## mr.x

^ looks nice, thanks for the link.


----------



## mr.x

*Pictures by David Lam @ Trans-Vancouver photos: http://www.trans-vancouver.fotopic.net/c1399581.html*


----------



## worldwide

wow. they look nice, but seriously... wtf is up with those bike racks? thats the biggest load of bull ive ever seen


----------



## mr.x

so many problems with these new buses...it's as if they were never tested.



*Frost knocks out high-tech trolley buses in Vancouver*
4 extra buses run along 300 kilometres of line to keep them warm overnight

Last Updated: Thursday, November 22, 2007 | 10:20 PM ET
CBC News

Hundreds of commuters in Vancouver shared taxis, walked or even thumbed rides Thursday morning after the city's new trolley buses were out of service because overhead lines were coated with frost.

The Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority said drivers were forced to park their buses all over the city as moist air and cold temperatures overnight left the trolley lines frozen.

Although equipped with ice cutters like the old buses, the new trolleys are so technologically advanced and sensitive that the thin coat of ice on the overhead lines tricked the onboard computers into thinking the lines were dead, said TransLink spokesman Drew Snider.

"They assume that the poles have lost contact with the wires and they retract the poles — this is designed to keep the poles from failing above and bringing down trolley overheads," he said.

The new bus fleet has 188 high-tech trolleys, which rolled out in the summer of 2006, and almost all of them were grounded when the German-made system couldn't detect electricity, TransLink said.

Snider said the new trolleys were back in operation and engineers were working on fixing the problem so commuters don't encounter the same problem Friday morning.

TransLink spent most of Thursday retrieving dead trolleys and formulating a solution — keeping the wires warm through the night by running four extra buses along 300 kilometres of line and watch the weather.

"We're certain it's going to work," said Stan Sierpina, a spokesman for TransLink's customer service. "We will make sure it works … We'll have the ice cutters or the frost removers out there."

Questions are being raised on Thursday if there was enough testing done on these buses in West Coast conditions before they were purchased.

This is the third major issues with the fleet. There were problems with power steering in January of this year and trouble with the bike racks.

"It's very, very highly technical equipment and it's going to take some years before we finally get it all finalized," said Bus Mechanics Union spokesman Joe Elworthy.


----------



## Daguy

Langara College joins U-Pass transit program

Vancouver Sun
Published: Friday, November 23, 2007
Langara College is joining the Vancity U-Pass transit program.

In a referendum, 88 per cent of students voted in favour of the program which encourages students to take public transit by giving them unlimited region wide transit access, according to a news release.

A total of $152 per four month semester is added to student fees and the students save between $124 and $368 over the semester depending on the number of zones they have to travel.


----------



## mr.x

^ great news, so i assume it starts next year?


----------



## mr.x

*Mayors go to Victoria seeking transit promises*
Minister gets earful of advice from leaders
Frances Bula, Vancouver Sun
Published: Friday, November 23, 2007

Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon has become the province's most popular date these days among a select group of people: mayors desperately lobbying for major transit improvements to their regions.

*Vancouver Mayor Sam Sullivan was in Victoria on Thursday to lobby for the western extension of the Millennium Line, carrying with him the results of an unscientific but popular survey that indicates people want a SkyTrain line along Broadway.

The mayors of Surrey, Coquitlam, Abbotsford and Langley Township were in Victoria last week, pushing for rapid buses and rapid-transit extensions to SkyTrain for their suburbs.*

Mayors such as Dianne Watts of Surrey are making the case that the south-of-Fraser region is desperately underserved, getting one-quarter the amount of transit service per capita that Vancouver and Burnaby get, with no equalization in sight until 2031.

*And Port Moody Mayor Joe Trasolini, who has spent the last several months stalking Falcon's office for a commitment to the northeast sector's light-rail Evergreen Line, is hoping Falcon doesn't get fickle on him with all the pressure from everywhere else.*

"Are we nervous? If I told you I wasn't, I'd be lying. We've been left behind several times before," said Trasolini.

There's a reason for all this passion. Metro Vancouver and the province are facing a crunch. The region's population is exploding, everyone is talking about the importance of going green, and the most obvious major strategy to achieve that is a great transit system.

But the region is already behind with transit services, it struggles with ways to finance even relatively modest improvements, and now it has three major demands from three very different areas for billion-dollar improvements.

"Given that we're playing catch-up and there's all this growth around us, we're like the guy running in front of the huge rolling ball," said TransLink spokesman Ken Hardie.

*That's why Falcon's popularity has soared, with everyone anticipating major transit announcements in the next few months in light of Premier Gordon Campbell's recently adopted mission to make B.C. a leader in greenhouse-gas-emission reductions.

Falcon says the province's commitments will be significant.*

But even the perpetually optimistic minister isn't saying that means everyone will get everything.

"It's a challenge, there's no doubt," said Falcon, just before his meeting with the Vancouver mayor.

"There's no doubt that we can't do everything all at once. And we need to make decisions that are thoughtful."
*
Falcon has said in the past he would like to see a rapid-transit extension within 10 years from the existing SkyTrain line out to Langley town centre -- something some south-of-Fraser politicians are also advocating --but he insisted Thursday that's a personal opinion rather than a ministerial one.

He also insists that the new TransLink board structure the province is creating will take the politics out of decisions and ensure the wisest transportation choices are made from an overall regional perspective.*

But that doesn't appear to be providing any comfort to the politicians, who are all working hard these days to present their most forceful arguments for their part of the region.

*In Vancouver, Sullivan and his councillor sidekick on transportation, Suzanne Anton, make the case that the city already has enough riders to justify a SkyTrain line to the University of B.C. The Broadway buses now carry about 70,000 people a day.

In Surrey and Langley, Watts and Langley Township Mayor Kurt Alberts say they need rapid-bus service along major routes there, and a rapid-bus or rapid-transit system from the King George SkyTrain along Fraser Highway to Langley town centre.*

And, in the northeast, Trasolini makes the case that communities there took on gobs of extra density because they were promised transit services to go with it. And now it's time to deliver.

[email protected]

TRANSIT DEMANDS

*- Vancouver wants:*

An extension of the Millennium Line from where it ends now, Clark Drive, out to the University of B.C.

Length of line: 12 kilometres.

Approximate cost: $1 billion to $2 billion.

Commitment so far: $2 million from the city for planning; $1 million from TransLink for planning; nothing for construction.

Earliest completion date possible: 2016.



*- The northeast sector wants:*

The Evergreen light-rail line from where the Millennium Line ends now, Lougheed Centre, out to Coquitlam Centre.

Length of line: 11 kilometres.

Approximate cost: $1 billion.

Commitment so far: $400 million from TransLink for construction; $170 million from the province for construction.

Earliest completion date possible: late 2010, early 2011.




*- The south of Fraser sector wants:*

The same level of transit service that Vancouver and Burnaby have -- 2.42 hours per capita per year, instead of the .6 they now get -- well before 2031.

Also, rapid-bus service on 200th, King George, 104th and 152nd.

Also, rapid-transit along the Fraser Highway from the King George SkyTrain station to Langley town centre.

Approximate cost: Unknown.

Commitment so far: TransLink has committed to a King George rapid bus by 2013, frequent service (every 15 minutes) from Langley centre to Golden Ears Bridge by 2021, and Vancouver-level service for all of the south-of-Fraser region by 2031.

Frances Bula, Vancouver Sun














*All-night runs to clear trolley lines*
Four buses will keep wires warm after frost crippled service Thursday

Kelly Sinoski, Vancouver Sun
Published: Friday, November 23, 2007

METRO VANCOUVER - TransLink planned to run four buses along its trolley lines through the night after frost crippled its new fleet of "smart" trolley buses Thursday morning, stranding tens of thousands of commuters.

The 188 buses, which cost $1 million apiece, were out of service from 5 a.m. until 9 a.m. when the sun had finally melted the frost on the trolley lines.

The breakdown, affecting trolley service in Vancouver and Burnaby, left thousands of commuters late for work and TransLink officials scratching their heads over how to fix the problem.

Diesel buses were brought in from other areas, while B-Line express bus drivers picked up passengers at every stop along trolley routes.

About 120,000 commuters use the trolley buses throughout the day.

Gabriele Raasch, a graphic designer and processing supervisor for West Vancouver Memorial Library, described Thursday's morning commute as "an adventure and a test of extreme patience" after it took her 90 minutes to get to work compared with her usual 45 minutes.

"I was shocked," she said. "There were a lot of people taking taxis who were more frustrated than I."

Stan Sierpina, vice-president of customer service for Coast Mountain Bus, which operates TransLink's buses, blamed the breakdown on "unique weather circumstances" that left an accumulation of ice and frost along the 314 kilometres of trolley wire.

*The ice acted as insulation against the new trolleys' sensors, which lose their connections to the overhead wires if they can't sense a power link, Sierpina said.

"Virtually all of our trolley service was affected," Sierpina said. "There's no question this had a serious impact on our customers."*

Harvir Grewal, who lives in Surrey, usually makes it to his job at the BC Liquor Distribution branch within an hour, but on Thursday, it was three hours before he clocked in at 9:06 a.m.

Unlike other commuters who got off and walked, Grewal, who is blind, had to wait until the bus started running again or he could get a taxi.

"Even in the snow time, it didn't take that long," he said, adding he wasn't sure he would take the bus this morning. "Before I take a chance I'll definitely confirm with the driver that they're running smoothly."

Sierpina said he couldn't make any guarantees, but he expected the buses would be running properly today. TransLink planned to run four buses all night to keep the wires warm for the Friday commute, while staff monitor the temperature outside.

"We'll make sure it works," he said.

But it's uncertain what can be done in the long term, or how much it will cost to prevent the buses from breaking down in the cold. TransLink said it was in touch with the bus manufacturer, New Flyer Industries.

Jim Cochran, vice-president of technical services for Coast Mountain Bus, said the new trolleys are "smarter" and more efficient than the older ones and there was no reason to think they wouldn't work.

Last year, there were only 20 new trolley buses on the road during the winter, he said, so "if we did have a problem we didn't know. We now have a critical mass."

TransLink has run into problems before with its new fleet.

Earlier this year, 39 new trolley buses were pulled off the road for seven weeks after some of them momentarily lost their power steering when they passed under couplings in the overhead wires.

The problem appeared to be related to hydraulic pressure, and a decision was made to upgrade the hydraulic pumps.

All of TransLink's trolley buses operate in Vancouver and Burnaby.

Jeff Toward, a research administrator at UBC, said although he was 40 minutes late for work Thursday, he planned to take the bus this morning because "it'll be that or an hour's walk."

Toward was on his bus along Alma on Thursday when "it would travel a few feet at a time and jerk." The driver had to get out four times to reconnect the poles, he said.

"This isn't Florida," he said. "It shouldn't be a surprise that we get frost."

[email protected]


----------



## Daguy

I'm sorry if someone has already posted about this somewhere but I just noticed that google now has Skytrain stations, bus stops, and WCE station locations actually shown on google maps. You can click on a bus stop and it will show when buses are departing from that location =)


----------



## ssiguy2

Greater Vancouver is in dire need of some commuter rail/express buses from Surrey/Langley to downtown via HWY#1 using the HOV lanes. 
The services like the 351 to White Rock would be very well used and fast. 
Even is there is a SkyTrain ext to Langley someday it would take an hour to get to Waterfront as opposed to just 25 minutes on a more comfortable express bus using the HOV lanes.


----------



## Daguy

ssiguy2 said:


> Greater Vancouver is in dire need of some commuter rail/express buses from Surrey/Langley to downtown via HWY#1 using the HOV lanes.
> The services like the 351 to White Rock would be very well used and fast.
> Even is there is a SkyTrain ext to Langley someday it would take an hour to get to Waterfront as opposed to just 25 minutes on a more comfortable express bus using the HOV lanes.


You think an express bus could get from Langely to downtown Van in 25 minutes? That'll never happen.


----------



## worldwide

i wouldnt think so either. at rush hour it would take 1 hour or more even in the hov. that is unless theres a bus only link to downtown from #1, even then though id say 40-45 mins


----------



## spongeg

even speeding its hard to that from Lougheed mall to downtown


----------



## Daguy

spongeg said:


> even speeding its hard to that from Lougheed mall to downtown


Well... 

To be honest in my recklessness when a I was a little younger I did once make it from Lougheed Mall to 4th and Burrard in 20 minutes flat. Let's just say that it was really late at night, and I was going "rather" fast down the lougheed highway. Lougheed to Cambie and Hastings I did in 23 think I think :S


----------



## mr.x

More pictures from *Tafryn,* Nov. 22-24:


WATERFRONT STATION





























































































































VANCOUVER CITY CENTRE STATION





























































































































































MIDDLE ARM BRIDGE















































































TEMPLETON STATION


----------



## Daguy

Canada Line pics (Nov. 25/07)


[email protected]











Broadway - City Hall Station to 16th 




















16th to 19th















































[email protected] to just south to King Edward Station -

North Bound Traffic moves back to Eastside lanes just south of 19th Ave to King Edward Station, with the exception of just north of King Edward St. where all traffic has been re-routed to the east side of Cambie over the newly paved over King Edward Station. Not all lanes and intersections are completely open in this section:
























































Oakridge Station











Marine Dr. Station





























Richmond - Elevated Guideway South of Landsdowne 




















Column Work near Richmond Station (Camera was literally dying at this point so the pics are not exactly from the angle I would have liked:nuts


----------



## mr.x

http://www.pci-group.com/


----------



## taiwanesedrummer36

Wow! That looks awesome! The Canada Line is really spurring new development, especially TODs!

Wish Seattle had such a spontaneous redevelopment from the Central Link...


----------



## worldwide

i can get from sfu to langara college in 55 minutes.......




on my bike


----------



## ssiguy2

OK OK, point taken but you see where I am coming from. 
A SkyTrain from Langley would take forever to get downtown and a uncomfortable and packed one to boot. 

There is NO reason why there cannot be a 351-like bus from Langley & Guilford using HOV especially if they extend HOV to 200th. 

The 351 is VERY heavily used. Ther Park & Ride station is always packed as are the buses. The bus is actually faster than a car in rush hour.


----------



## bs_lover_boy

*The Trains have ARRIVED!!*

I was driving home from school today and decided to go over to the OMC area to take a quick look at the construction progress. Took a few pictures with my cellphone while driving.... Please excuse me for the poor quality!!!

North Arm Bridge:


OMC - Guess what I found??? TRAINS!!!



Bridgeport Station Construction:


Progress of the Guideway (Crane reached the transition column from double-track to single-track):


----------



## mr.x

*A Skyscrapercity/Skyscraperpage sneak peak of the first train shipment in Vancouver. Please thank our friends at the Canada Line Project Office for the photos below. The first two trains have already been delivered to the OMC, while the remaining two will be delivered in the coming days.*


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## officedweller

Nice! Thanks!


----------



## arashi_1987

I think that a rapid bus service (e.g. Langley to Downtown Vancouver) over such a long distance cannot replace an extension of the skytrain to Langley. It would make sense to have a transit line run the entire length (although a long trip) and to complement it with a limited rapid bus line during peak hours.

by the way, I've been drawing lines on a map on google map lately of potential transit lines on my mac...any idea as to how to change that into a picture?.


----------



## paradigm4

arashi_1987 said:


> I think that a rapid bus service (e.g. Langley to Downtown Vancouver) over such a long distance cannot replace an extension of the skytrain to Langley. It would make sense to have a transit line run the entire length (although a long trip) and to complement it with a limited rapid bus line during peak hours.
> 
> by the way, I've been drawing lines on a map on google map lately of potential transit lines on my mac...any idea as to how to change that into a picture?.


Take a screenshot. Either use the "Grab" application, or press "Shift+Apple+3". You could also just link to your Google Map.


----------



## mr.x

More pictures by *Tafryn,* Nov. 25:



RICHMOND CITY CENTRE-BRIGHOUSE STATION


----------



## officedweller

Train pics by Stephen Rees:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stephen_rees/2074870666/










and a great bridge shot:


----------



## Daguy

Neat but it'll be more exciting when we can see under the plastic:lol:


----------



## mr.x

*Massive update by Tafryn, Nov. 25-28:
*


OPERATIONS & MAINTENANCE CENTRE plus TRAINS


























































































































































































































































NORTH ARM BRIDGE





















































BROADWAY-CITY HALL STATION



















































































































ABERDEEN STATION





























































































































































































LANSDOWNE STATION




























*
Notice the thicker column. This is where the track switch is, where single-tracking begins south of Lansdowne Road.*


----------



## taiwanesedrummer36

Has anyone up in Vancouver suggested some sort of Richmond-Burnaby/New Westminster Skytrain line? I'm wondering why there's no such (proposed) link; is it because of ridership concerns or something? It seems like a good idea (considering how much i've driven on Marine Drive, ugh)...


----------



## mr.x

taiwanesedrummer36 said:


> Has anyone up in Vancouver suggested some sort of Richmond-Burnaby/New Westminster Skytrain line? I'm wondering why there's no such (proposed) link; is it because of ridership concerns or something? It seems like a good idea (considering how much i've driven on Marine Drive, ugh)...


Well, it's possible in the future with the Arbutus streetcar that an LRT/streetcar line could be built as an extension along Marine Drive with stations at the Canada Line Marine Drive Station, East Fraserlands, and onto New Westminster with a station at the SkyTrain station.


----------



## mr.x

Updates from *Tafryn's* blog, Dec. 14:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/



BRIDGEPORT STATION (and park & ride, casino-hotel expansion)





































































OPERATIONS & MAINTENANCE CENTRE

































NORTH ARM BRIDGE (note the off-ramp for the pedestrian/bike way)


----------



## deasine

Just to let some of you (if you haven't already) the new Aritculated Buses by NewFlyer are already in operation for the 99 B-Line.


----------



## mr.x

New rendering of the Yaletown-Roundhouse Station entrance:













New renderings of YVR-Airport Station (not sure which one is the final design, possibly the last one):


----------



## Daguy

^^

Those are some sexy looking renderings.


----------



## ssiguy2

Even more fleet expansion news is even more good news from Translink. 
They are increasing bus frequencies down here in WR/SSurrrey effective Dec 24/07 and there will be a substantial increase in frequency of the VERY busy 321 WR to KG station via Newton.........MINIMUM 15 min all day/evening 7 days/week. 

A significant increase in 351 WR to Downtown is immeniate for approx April/08. 
Things are finally inproving South of Frazer where service really is completley sub-standard. 

It is good news that we will be getting and extra 14 MK11 cars on top of the 34 they will get in 09. It is great that they are improving some of the SkyTrain stations but they must really make this a priority on all stations especially for the Expo Line. All the stations should be lengthened to accomodate 3 MK11 trains or 8 MK1 cars. When they finished the MLine and the SkyTrain cut in two , service to Surrey actually decreased.

A Hastings street BLine starts this year from downtown to SFU and they are hoping for a BLine down KG SkyTrain to ATLEAST Newton but they, if buses are available, will bring the BLine route all the way down to WR. This is what the communications officer said when I talked to him at length.


----------



## mr.x

More pictures from *Tafryn*, Dec. 20:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com


WATERFRONT STATION


















































VANCOUVER CITY CENTRE STATION (you can see the elevator shaft and space for the escalators)


----------



## deasine

I thought they are doing a lrt from Guilford to SurreyCentral then to Newton...


----------



## yy17616406

*yes!*

〖^o^〗^o^ 〖^o^〗
Shakugan no Shana
Claymore
Fate-Stay Night
Rurouni Kenshin
Highschool of the dead
naruto
One Piece
Prince of Tennis
naruto
comic
Angel Sanctuary
Slam Dunk


----------



## officedweller

B-Line first, then LRT to follow


----------



## officedweller

Construction Update Granville #012 - Tunnel Boring Machine Arrives at Vancouver City Centre Station

http://www.canadaline.ca/uploads/NewsReleases/News550.PDF

Monthly Construction Update - Richmond and YVR: January 2008

http://www.canadaline.ca/uploads/NewsReleases/News552.pdf

Monthly Construction Update - Vancouver: January 2008

http://www.canadaline.ca/uploads/NewsReleases/News553.pdf


----------



## officedweller

Lots of new pics by Tafryn himself of Lansdowne, Richmond Centre, 49th Ave, 41st Ave, Cambie Cut and City Hall.

http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/2008/01/2008-01-06-lansdowne-station.html

Here's an interesting one showing the guideway near No. 3 Rd. - interesting that the guideway has a swerve in it. Could be due to the double -> single transition.


----------



## van-island

officedweller said:


> B-Line first, then LRT to follow


sigh.


----------



## paradigm4

ssiguy2 said:


> A Hastings street BLine starts this year from downtown to SFU and they are hoping for a BLine down KG SkyTrain to ATLEAST Newton but they, if buses are available, will bring the BLine route all the way down to WR. This is what the communications officer said when I talked to him at length.


The King George B-Line isn't until 2013. Fraser Highway is supposed to get a mini B-Line (half between B-Line and a regular express bus) in 2011. TransLink is supposed to start a study to determine the exact routes and stops of any rapid transit in the SOF early this year, which should be interesting. And yes, the plans is to upgrade the King George busway to LRT in the "future".


----------



## deasine

paradigm4 said:


> The King George B-Line isn't until 2013. Fraser Highway is supposed to get a mini B-Line (half between B-Line and a regular express bus) in 2011. TransLink is supposed to start a study to determine the exact routes and stops of any rapid transit in the SOF early this year, which should be interesting. And yes, the plans is to upgrade the King George busway to LRT in the "future".


I hate how late the BRTs are coming... actually frustrates me.


----------



## paradigm4

deasine said:


> I hate how late the BRTs are coming... actually frustrates me.


And they are done half assed too! The whole point of BRT is that we get RT for a cheap price that takes little time to implement. It's all just ridiculous.


----------



## van-island

Buses, buses, and more buses. I would rather go out of my way 20 minutes to ride the Skytrain rather than save that time and take a bus. THAT'S the reality of buses.


----------



## mr.x

*7,000 ink petition for 24/7 SkyTrain service*

Cheryl Chan, The Province
Published: Wednesday, January 09, 2008

More than 7,000 people have signed an online petition clamouring for round-the-clock SkyTrain service.

Scott Podwinski, who started the petition on the social networking site Facebook less than two weeks ago, said he's blown away by the demand.

"Almost 7,300 people are saying they want the service and would ride it," said the 26-year-old Surrey man. "There's more demand than you think."

Podwinski started the campaign after being stranded downtown after a New Year's Eve party, despite assurances from TransLink customer service that SkyTrain service will be running "later than normal."

He said he and his friends boarded the SkyTrain at Granville Station at about 2 a.m. but were kicked off at the next stop because service was shutting down.

They were told to walk to Burrard Station to catch a bus, he said, but "two hours later, still no bus. We were frozen by that time."

"It would cost very little to keep the SkyTrain running 24 hours," said Podwinski, adding that the extra rail runs would curb drinking and driving and offer night owls an alternative to pricey cab rides home.

Both the SkyTrain's Expo and Millennium lines shut down for about four hours daily, from about 1:30 to 5:30 a.m.

TransLink spokesman Ken Hardie said 24/7 service would be desirable but not "feasible technically."

*"We have a situation where a certain number of down-time hours is necessary," he said, adding SkyTrain already stays open later than the London Underground.

"It's not an issue of operating costs," said Hardie. "An additional few hours wouldn't make the difference, but with the need to do track maintenance . . . they need that window every early morning."*

Hardie said TransLink might consider looking at short-term 24-hour service on specific nights during the 2010 Olympics should downtown stay open late.

Podwinski hopes to gather 100,000 signatures -- online and in-person -- which he plans to submit to TransLink at the end of the year.

A reaction to Podwinski's petition has already erupted on Facebook. The Petition Against the Petition to Keep the SkyTrain Open 24 Hours has 12 members as of yesterday.

[email protected]




i should mention that SkyTrain opens later and opens earlier than the Hong Kong MTR.


----------



## zivan56

^^ Even though it may operate longer, it is the only way to get home for most people. I would say that Translink directly encourages drunk driving by not providing routes from downtown to the suburbs (bus or skytrain). As do taxi drivers by refusing to drive people longer distances.
Where did they get 12 members from? The "Petition to keep Skytrain running 24 hours" has 8,242 members and "Hey Translink, don't stop that train. I wanna get on!" has 1,333 members


----------



## taiwanesedrummer36

Who are the 12 members? They must be very dumb.

Could Translink run trains only on one track, so the other track can be closed for maintainence, and then switch trains to the other track, so the other (other) track can be maintained?


----------



## deasine

taiwanesedrummer36 said:


> Who are the 12 members? They must be very dumb.
> 
> Could Translink run trains only on one track, so the other track can be closed for maintainence, and then switch trains to the other track, so the other (other) track can be maintained?


yeah we were discussing about doing that at SCP. They do this when they have major track maintenance/replacement. It's doable in 20-30 minute frequencies.

As Mr. X at SCP, I think we should get West Coast Express expanded first.


----------



## Overground

Concerning transit to the suburbs. Doesn't Translink offer Night buses to the northeast, Surrey, Richmond seven days a week till 4am on 12 routes or something? This is very similar to London Underground is it not?


----------



## spongeg

Overground said:


> Concerning transit to the suburbs. Doesn't Translink offer Night buses to the northeast, Surrey, Richmond seven days a week till 4am on 12 routes or something? This is very similar to London Underground is it not?


there is but its not all night - after 3 am you are stuck downtown

NightBus service operates every 30 minutes, 7 nights a week, from 2:00 – 4:00 a.m. the last bus leaving from Downtown Vancouver at 3:00 a.m.


The NightBus network consists of 12 routes in Vancouver, Burnaby, New Westminster, Port Moody, Coquitlam, Richmond, Surrey and North Vancouver, providing a safe, reliable option for getting around Greater Vancouver. 

NightBus Routes
N6 Downtown/ West End 
N8 Downtown/ Fraser 
N9 Downtown/ Coquitlam Stn 
N10 Downtown/ Richmond Centre/ via Airport 
N15 Downtown/ Cambie 
N16 Nanaimo/ Renfrew 
N17 Downtown/ UBC 
N19 Downtown/ New Westminster Stn/ Surrey Central Stn 
N20 Downtown/ Victoria 
N22 Downtown/ Dunbar 
N24 Downtown/ Upper Lonsdale 
N35 Downtown/ SFU 

http://www.coastmountainbus.com/services/Bus_Services/NightBus


----------



## mr.x

After my trip to Hong Kong, what the region needs is a fleet of double-decker commuter express buses.


----------



## spongeg

#3 looks better now that that new condo is up


----------



## mr.x

spongeg said:


> #3 looks better now that that new condo is up


...and that's just the first two of dozens and dozens.


----------



## nova9

if only. i so miss the KMB buses - mine personally was 31B....sigh. but they'd reach past the trolley wires so unless we get rid of the trolley fleet...or raise the height and have double decker trolleys!!


----------



## mr.x

nova9 said:


> if only. i so miss the KMB buses - mine personally was 31B....sigh. but they'd reach past the trolley wires so unless we get rid of the trolley fleet...or raise the height and have double decker trolleys!!


the double-deckers would work outside Vancouver, in the suburbs, where there is an absence of trolleys.


----------



## officedweller

I was surprised to see cranes for the one at No. 3 & Lansdowne.


----------



## Overground

Thanks spongeg! They should have an extension of Night buses then with the last one leaving downtown at 4 at least.


----------



## mr.x

A few updates by *Tafryn*, Jan. 3-6:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/


WATERFRONT STATION





















YVR STATION












BROADWAY STATION












KING EDWARD STATION - station entrance








































OAKRIDGE-41ST AVENUE STATION








































LANGARA-49TH STATION


----------



## mr.x

A few updates by *Tafryn,* Jan. 3-6:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/



VANCOUVER CITY CENTRE STATION - tunnel boring machine has arrived for the second run


----------



## arcaderat100

I have several questions:

1. Will the Canada Line have turnstiles installed after what transportation minister Kevin Falcon said about installing turnstiles on all Skytrain and Canada Line stations?

2. When will Electronic smart cards come out for use? It's been so long....

3. Will Canada Line hire new officers to patrol the Canada Line stations if it operates on a POP (proof of payment) system, or will they use Skytrain Attendants? 

Thanks Everybody!


----------



## mr.x

1) i would think so.

2) the smart cards should be coming out either when turnstiles are introduced or a little while after that.

3) Translink has said they will be hiring 50 more transit officers just for the Canada Line. The Canada Line/InTransitBC is probably responsible for hiring attendants.


----------



## arcaderat100

mr.x said:


> 1) i would think so.
> 
> 2) the smart cards should be coming out either when turnstiles are introduced or a little while after that.
> 
> 3) Translink has said they will be hiring 50 more transit officers just for the Canada Line. The Canada Line/InTransitBC is probably responsible for hiring attendants.


Thanks.


----------



## Gecko1989

hey one more question. In richmond after the landsdown station will the canada line only have one rail line to richmond center? If so how is that gonna work???


----------



## ssiguy2

Question...........
What exactly is this RAV going to be called?
They can't call it SkyTrain so is it going to be called a true subway/metro?


----------



## mr.x

Gecko1989 said:


> hey one more question. In richmond after the landsdown station will the canada line only have one rail line to richmond center? If so how is that gonna work???


the final 650-metre lengths of both the Richmond and Sea Island segments will be single-tracked for cost cutting reasons. A train would go through the double to single track transition, stop at the terminus station to dump and pick up passengers, then immediately reverse to where it came from and go through the single to double track transition. Only one train can be in the single track portion of the line.


----------



## mrtfreak

ssiguy2 said:


> Question...........
> What exactly is this RAV going to be called?
> They can't call it SkyTrain so is it going to be called a true subway/metro?


Canada Line RT? Like they did for Scarborough in Toronto?


----------



## mr.x

*$14 BILLION for Transit in Vancouver/BC*

*Investing for the Future – a $14 Billion Action Plan*

The Government of British Columbia is investing in innovative transit options for the benefit of all British Columbians now and into the future. By 2020, the plan calls for the provincial government and its federal and local government partners to commit $14 billion to significantly expand transit in communities across the province and to double transit ridership.

Successful implementation of the Provincial Transit Plan requires the cooperation and commitment of our partners. Of the $11.1 billion in new funding, the Province is committing up to $4.75 billion and is calling on the federal government for $3.1 billion, TransLink for $2.75 billion and local governments for $500 million along with supportive land use decisions.

For Metro Vancouver, the transit market share is about 12 per cent during weekdays. The Provincial Transit Plan will result in increasing transit market share by five per cent to a total of 17 per cent by 2020. By 2030, transit market share is expected to increase by an additional five per cent as people get out of their cars and onto the expanded transit network. In the Victoria Regional Transit System, the present transit market share is about seven per cent. The Provincial Transit Plan is aimed at increasing transit market share
by 2.5 per cent by 2020, bringing the total market share to 9.5 per cent. By 2030, market share is expected to grow by an additional 2.5 per cent to 12 per cent in the region.




*SECURITY:*

- *Installing electronic gates and closed-circuit cameras at rapid transit stations*

- *Launching a smart-card system for rapid transit and buses that users can reload at vending machines or on the Internet*

- Taking action against people who do not pay fares with on-the-spot fines and other measures

- Increasing security personnel in and around rapid transit stations



*SKYTRAIN EXPANSION:*

- *$2 billion* to construct the new, *19 kilometre Canada Line from downtown Vancouver to Vancouver International Airport in Richmond by end of 2009*

- *$1.4 billion* to build the *11 kilometre Evergreen Line by 2014, connecting Coquitlam Centre to the Lougheed Town Centre Station*

- *$2.8 billion* to build a new, *12 kilometre line from Broadway Station to University of British Columbia by 2020*

- *$3.1 billion to double capacity on the existing Expo Line,* including *major improvements to stations starting in 2009* and a *6 kilometre extension in Surrey by 2020. Improvements will include lengthening platforms to handle 6 car trains,* additional storage track, upgrades to the control system, vehicle storage depots, maintenance facilities and adjacent transit exchanges.

- $1 billion for additional SkyTrain cars












*RAPID BUS:*

The Provincial Transit Plan calls for *$1.2 billion to be invested in RapidBus BC by 2020.* RapidBus BC will be available along *nine lines in British Columbia:*

- From Westbank to the University of British Columbia Okanagan in the central Okanagan

- From Douglas Street in downtown Victoria to Langford on the West Shore

- Highway 1, connecting Lougheed Station to exchanges in Surrey and Langley across the Port Mann Bridge

- Hastings Street from downtown Vancouver to Simon Fraser University

- 41st Avenue from the Canada Line to the University of British Columbia

- Highway 99 from White Rock to the Canada Line in Richmond

- King George Highway from Surrey Centre south to White Rock

- Fraser Highway, connecting Langley to the Expo Line in Surrey

- Highway 7 from the Evergreen Line in Coquitlam across the new Golden Ears Bridge





















As the core of the transit system in communities like Kelowna, Victoria and Metro Vancouver, RapidBus BC offers:
- Frequent, reliable service at regularly spaced intervals
- Express service with few or no stops between main stations
- Priority movement in traffic through dedicated lanes, in some cases bypassing congested intersections
- Pre-paid fare collection to minimize boarding delays
- Integrated fare systems, allowing free or discounted transfers between routes and transit modes
- Easy-to-understand route and schedule information
- Modern, efficient, high capacity vehicles, which are easy to board, quiet, clean and comfortable to ride
- Contemporary, conveniently located bus stations with nearby amenities
- Seamless integration with other transit options and coordination with cycling and walking infrastructure
- Separate lanes on all or some parts of routes
- Use of High Occupancy Vehicle lanes
- Signal priority and queue jumping provisions
- Effective security measures



*EXPANDED BUS FLEET*

The Provincial Transit Plan will significantly increase the provincial bus fleet to improve service in many communities around the province. By investing *$1.6 billion in 1,500 new, clean energy buses and related maintenance infrastructure, and increasing the hours of service, transit riders will have
access to more buses, more often*. The new buses will be selected to meet the specific needs of communities in cost-effective, energy efficient ways.

Clean technologies include:
■ Hydrogen
■ Hybrid
■ Electric
■ Natural Gas
■ Low emissions diesel

In addition to conventional buses, the new fleet will be made up of a variety of bus types customized to meet the needs of individual communities and users. Options include:

■ Community shuttles – smaller, quieter vehicles that minimize impacts on neighbourhoods
■ Custom transit – specialized vans and minibuses for dial-a-ride, door-to-door handyDART service, and taxi programs to serve mobility challenged transit users and others who cannot access conventional transit
■ Para-transit – mini-buses, taxis and vans offering flexible routes and schedules
■ Articulated and double-decker buses – high capacity buses to serve passengers on routes where demand is heavy
■ Conventional buses – the mainstay of the fleet


----------



## mr.x

*Investing for the Future – a $14 Billion Action Plan*

The Government of British Columbia is investing in innovative transit options for the benefit of all British Columbians now and into the future. By 2020, the plan calls for the provincial government and its federal and local government partners to commit $14 billion to significantly expand transit in communities across the province and to double transit ridership.

Successful implementation of the Provincial Transit Plan requires the cooperation and commitment of our partners. Of the $11.1 billion in new funding, the Province is committing up to $4.75 billion and is calling on the federal government for $3.1 billion, TransLink for $2.75 billion and local governments for $500 million along with supportive land use decisions.

For Metro Vancouver, the transit market share is about 12 per cent during weekdays. The Provincial Transit Plan will result in increasing transit market share by five per cent to a total of 17 per cent by 2020. By 2030, transit market share is expected to increase by an additional five per cent as people get out of their cars and onto the expanded transit network. In the Victoria Regional Transit System, the present transit market share is about seven per cent. The Provincial Transit Plan is aimed at increasing transit market share
by 2.5 per cent by 2020, bringing the total market share to 9.5 per cent. By 2030, market share is expected to grow by an additional 2.5 per cent to 12 per cent in the region.




*SECURITY:*

- *Installing electronic gates and closed-circuit cameras at rapid transit stations*

- *Launching a smart-card system for rapid transit and buses that users can reload at vending machines or on the Internet*

- Taking action against people who do not pay fares with on-the-spot fines and other measures

- Increasing security personnel in and around rapid transit stations



*SKYTRAIN EXPANSION:*

- *$2 billion* to construct the new, *19 kilometre Canada Line from downtown Vancouver to Vancouver International Airport in Richmond by end of 2009*

- *$1.4 billion* to build the *11 kilometre Evergreen Line by 2014, connecting Coquitlam Centre to the Lougheed Town Centre Station*

- *$2.8 billion* to build a new, *12 kilometre line from Broadway Station to University of British Columbia by 2020*

- *$3.1 billion to double capacity on the existing Expo Line,* including *major improvements to stations starting in 2009* and a *6 kilometre extension in Surrey by 2020. Improvements will include lengthening platforms to handle 6 car trains,* additional storage track, upgrades to the control system, vehicle storage depots, maintenance facilities and adjacent transit exchanges.

- $1 billion for additional SkyTrain cars












*RAPID BUS:*

The Provincial Transit Plan calls for *$1.2 billion to be invested in RapidBus BC by 2020.* RapidBus BC will be available along *nine lines in British Columbia:*

- From Westbank to the University of British Columbia Okanagan in the central Okanagan

- From Douglas Street in downtown Victoria to Langford on the West Shore

- Highway 1, connecting Lougheed Station to exchanges in Surrey and Langley across the Port Mann Bridge

- Hastings Street from downtown Vancouver to Simon Fraser University

- 41st Avenue from the Canada Line to the University of British Columbia

- Highway 99 from White Rock to the Canada Line in Richmond

- King George Highway from Surrey Centre south to White Rock

- Fraser Highway, connecting Langley to the Expo Line in Surrey

- Highway 7 from the Evergreen Line in Coquitlam across the new Golden Ears Bridge





















As the core of the transit system in communities like Kelowna, Victoria and Metro Vancouver, RapidBus BC offers:
- Frequent, reliable service at regularly spaced intervals
- Express service with few or no stops between main stations
- Priority movement in traffic through dedicated lanes, in some cases bypassing congested intersections
- Pre-paid fare collection to minimize boarding delays
- Integrated fare systems, allowing free or discounted transfers between routes and transit modes
- Easy-to-understand route and schedule information
- Modern, efficient, high capacity vehicles, which are easy to board, quiet, clean and comfortable to ride
- Contemporary, conveniently located bus stations with nearby amenities
- Seamless integration with other transit options and coordination with cycling and walking infrastructure
- Separate lanes on all or some parts of routes
- Use of High Occupancy Vehicle lanes
- Signal priority and queue jumping provisions
- Effective security measures



*EXPANDED BUS FLEET*

The Provincial Transit Plan will significantly increase the provincial bus fleet to improve service in many communities around the province. By investing *$1.6 billion in 1,500 new, clean energy buses and related maintenance infrastructure, and increasing the hours of service, transit riders will have
access to more buses, more often*. The new buses will be selected to meet the specific needs of communities in cost-effective, energy efficient ways.

Clean technologies include:
■ Hydrogen
■ Hybrid
■ Electric
■ Natural Gas
■ Low emissions diesel

In addition to conventional buses, the new fleet will be made up of a variety of bus types customized to meet the needs of individual communities and users. Options include:

■ Community shuttles – smaller, quieter vehicles that minimize impacts on neighbourhoods
■ Custom transit – specialized vans and minibuses for dial-a-ride, door-to-door handyDART service, and taxi programs to serve mobility challenged transit users and others who cannot access conventional transit
■ Para-transit – mini-buses, taxis and vans offering flexible routes and schedules
■ Articulated and double-decker buses – high capacity buses to serve passengers on routes where demand is heavy
■ Conventional buses – the mainstay of the fleet


----------



## taiwanesedrummer36

So, apparently, the Evergreen Line WILL be Skytrain? COOL!


----------



## mr.x

taiwanesedrummer36 said:


> So, apparently, the Evergreen Line WILL be Skytrain? COOL!


i think it'll likely be SkyTrain, but we don't know the route. It'll cost $1.4 billion....that's the perfect figure if it takes the northwest route, which requires tunneling, and also the perfect figure if it takes the southeast route that does not require tunneling.


----------



## deasine

You know what... i just noticed: they could've had reused the Surrey Bullet concept, from Coquitlam down Lougheed Hwy then on Hwy 1 to Guilford, then on King George Hwy.


----------



## DrT

OMG OMG OMG!

:dance:

Best news in Van since the approval of the Canada Line!
I am pouring myself a glass of wine and celebrating right now.
Transport investment is what will make cities of the future.


----------



## ssiguy2

This is great news for metro. 

I am also very pleased that the gov't has acknoleged that the EXPO Line is over capacity and station and fleet expansion is a neccessity. 
It does, however, say that the new stations will be able to accomodate 6 cars.........they already can accomodate 6 MK1 cars. It can't be 6 MK11 cars as that would be 18 MK1 cars. Don't understand it.


----------



## mr.x

here's a pretty good graphic of what is being planned, from the Vancouver Sun:


----------



## mr.x

here's a pretty good graphic of what is being planned, from the Vancouver Sun:


----------



## mr.x

ssiguy2 said:


> This is great news for metro.
> 
> I am also very pleased that the gov't has acknoleged that the EXPO Line is over capacity and station and fleet expansion is a neccessity.
> It does, however, say that the new stations will be able to accomodate 6 cars.........they already can accomodate 6 MK1 cars. It can't be 6 MK11 cars as that would be 18 MK1 cars. Don't understand it.


I think you have a misconception of what exactly a Mark II car is. 

Below, you have a 2-car Mark II train:









The articulated bend links two Mark II cars together. They don't act as a car together.


So yes, what they mean is a 6-car Mark II train. Here's a graphic of what it would look like, created by alt-bc:









Car 1-Car 2=Car 3-Car 4=Car 5-Car 6


----------



## Vancouverite

^

Wow!

When those roll we will have sure come a long way from 2-car Mk1 trains. 

Imagine a pair of 6-car Mk2 trains pulling into Broadway station every minute. The station upgrades that are planned won't cut it. They will have to reorganize the escalators leading to Commercial Drive Station.

Very interesting times.


----------



## Svartmetall

Those look like amazing proposals, well done Vancouver.

Are there any plans for a tram network at all in the inner city or is that too unfeasable (I don't know much about Vancouver's city streets).


----------



## GTS

Thanks for the above maps people. I lived for many, many years in the Westend and always dreamed and hoped that rapid transit would expand to the very busy UBC Transit hub. I live in Toronto now and all these plans being unveiled kind of makes me want to move back. I left when there was only two lines, Millenium and Expo lines. So grateful that their is going to be a link to the airport and Richmond itself very soon. I remember the Oak St. bridge was really at capacity for all transit almost all day long. Hopefully this new line will alleviate a lot of idling traffic off these bridges.


----------



## mr.x

Svartmetall said:


> Those look like amazing proposals, well done Vancouver.
> 
> Are there any plans for a tram network at all in the inner city or is that too unfeasable (I don't know much about Vancouver's city streets).


There are plans to build streetcar within the City of Vancouver:










In addition, there's a small possibility that the Evergreen Line (look at map) will be light rail.


----------



## Svartmetall

The pricetag does seem inordinately high. Are construction costs particularly high in Canada?


----------



## Songoten2554

wow thats awsome and a very well planned Transit network go Vancouver i hope the 2010 will be a great Olympic games


----------



## Huhu

FINALLY Skytrain to UBC!!! :cheers:

Wait... I'll have graduated... :gaah:


----------



## urbanfan89

Svartmetall said:


> The pricetag does seem inordinately high. Are construction costs particularly high in Canada?


Pretty much. They say whoever can hold a hammer can work in construction for at least $12/hour. The area is going through a construction boom with so many projects ongoing: the Canada Line metro, residential condos in downtown core, redevelopment for the 2010 games, and new sports facilities. And then western Canada in general is seeing high demand due to the recent boom in resources. So I hope they put off construction until after 2010 when hopefully construction costs recede.


----------



## urbanfan89

^^ You can take the skytrain to alumni reunions, I guess.


----------



## UrbanBen

mr.x said:


> In addition, there's a small possibility that the Evergreen Line (look at map) will be light rail.


I thought it was announced at least a year ago that Evergreen Line will definitely be light rail.


----------



## DKaz

Vancouver already has some experience with BRT. The 99 B-Line was the first to go in and it is wildly popular and overcrowded even though it's just basically a limited stop bus running through mixed traffic. They desperately need to extend skytrain through this corridor as I often tell people to take the 84 as it uses the less crowded 4th Ave and gets to UBC from VCC-Clark in under 30 minutes flat even during rush hour. Broadway is packed and that 99 trip can often take upwards to 50 minutes from Broadway to UBC. 

The 98 was a pretty good attempt through it's what 4 years of existance before it got torn up for Canada Line construction. 

Time savings will come if they can create a BRT service where the buses do not need to stop at all except at stations so they can increase operating speeds to near rail level operating speeds. This means forcing regular traffic to stop when the "train on rubber tires" goes through an intersection or building overpasses.


----------



## mrtfreak

Evergreen Line as SkyTrain eh? Awesome. I think it helps to have one system in operation rather than many mini-systems. Good luck on the expansion of everything.


----------



## UrbanBen

mr.x said:


> The $2.8 billion, 12-km UBC extension will be a bored tunnel all the way. The $1.4 billion, 11-km Evergreen Line will be elevated for most of the route except for a 3-km bored tunnel. Boring is significantly more expensive than elevated.


Yeah, I'm pretty familiar with the costs (I've been somewhat involved in Sound Transit's work here for years), I just didn't know it would be tunneled.

Why wouldn't they simply continue on from VCC-Clark?


----------



## UrbanBen

DKaz said:


> Time savings will come if they can create a BRT service where the buses do not need to stop at all except at stations so they can increase operating speeds to near rail level operating speeds. This means forcing regular traffic to stop when the "train on rubber tires" goes through an intersection or building overpasses.


So you have a) right of way for buses only, and b) impact on existing traffic. In those situations, because it's cheaper to run a 2-car train on hydro than two buses on diesel, and less expensive to maintain the right of way, we build rail lines instead.


----------



## mrtfreak

UrbanBen said:


> Yeah, I'm pretty familiar with the costs (I've been somewhat involved in Sound Transit's work here for years), I just didn't know it would be tunneled.
> 
> Why wouldn't they simply continue on from VCC-Clark?


If I'm not wrong, that was the original idea. Not too sure if it has changed really. Even if it did continue from VCC-Clark, it would need to go underground.


----------



## Natron4050

Yeah, the "UBC Line" is an extension of the existing Millennium Line, though I'm pretty sure in the provincial government press release they call it the "UBC Line" for some reason. Anyway, it will be an extension from VCC/Clark, and it sounds like it'll be underground, with it's next stop at Main Street, though there has been some talk of servicing the False Creek Flats area with a stop called Finning too. 

There's also been some mention that this whole UBC line could run underneath 10th Ave rather than Broadway (which is 9th Ave), so as to avoid impacting Broadway altogether. Even if they tunnel the whole line they'll still have to make significant excavations for station construction I believe.


----------



## UrbanBen

mrtfreak said:


> If I'm not wrong, that was the original idea. Not too sure if it has changed really. Even if it did continue from VCC-Clark, it would need to go underground.


I have my fingers crossed. I dislike the current often long wait at Commercial Drive when I want to go to the museum of anthropology - the 99 B-Line can often take 15 minutes to arrive.

Is 10th the street that's considered the bicycle corridor now, or is that on the other side of Broadway?


----------



## urbanfan89

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/01/14/bc-transportationannouncement.html

On the second video link on the right, Campbell said he wants to see more projects by 2030, which include BRT to Squamish and some kind of "rail rapid transit" to Willowbrook in Langley and on King George. No one seems to have noticed this.


----------



## aliso

How long is a Mark II car? Would the current Expo/Millennium stations be able to handle a 5-car train?


----------



## mr.x

UrbanBen said:


> Yeah, I'm pretty familiar with the costs (I've been somewhat involved in Sound Transit's work here for years), I just didn't know it would be tunneled.
> 
> Why wouldn't they simply continue on from VCC-Clark?


It will continue from VCC-Clarke. From VCC, the guideway would dive underground, make a turn to the south and head for Main Street and Broadway (or 10th Avenue). That still is the plan...they aren't revealing the exact details as it would just be too complicated for the public to understand.


----------



## mr.x

aliso said:


> How long is a Mark II car? Would the current Expo/Millennium stations be able to handle a 5-car train?


A Mark II car is 18-metres long...a 5-car Mark II is 90-metres, longer than the 80-metre platform. I'm guessing two doors would have to stick out of the platform.


----------



## mr.x

urbanfan89 said:


> http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/01/14/bc-transportationannouncement.html
> 
> On the second video link on the right, Campbell said he wants to see more projects by 2030, which include BRT to Squamish and some kind of "rail rapid transit" to Willowbrook in Langley and on King George. No one seems to have noticed this.


Wow, that's a good find....BRT to Squamish.

Falcon on a radio interview said the Expo Line would see two further extensions by 2030: to Langley via Fraser Highway and to Newton via King George.


----------



## deasine

mr.x said:


> Wow, that's a good find....BRT to Squamish.
> 
> Falcon on a radio interview said the Expo Line would see two further extensions by 2030: to Langley via Fraser Highway and to Newton via King George.


It might also tie into TransLink's study of luxury buses:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=143667

I'm sorry for those who are sick and tired of hearing Hong Kong now, but the KCR does have "first class rail cabins" and regular commuter cabins. I hope TransLink buses that go long ways or usually on highways can be slightly more comfortable - similar to the current Commuter Express Coaches with TVs =)


----------



## officedweller

mr.x said:


> Falcon on a radio interview said the Expo Line would see two further extensions by 2030: to Langley via Fraser Highway and to Newton via King George.


That's good news - it also implies a wye would be installed.


----------



## aliso

It may be time to fantasize about Mk III vehicles! They would be 16 metres long so that a 5-car train would fit perfectly in our current 80 m platforms. It would buy us a lot of time and would be much cheaper than rebuilding the Expo Line stations.


----------



## mr.x

aliso said:


> It may be time to fantasize about Mk III vehicles! They would be 16 metres long so that a 5-car train would fit perfectly in our current 80 m platforms. It would buy us a lot of time and would be much cheaper than rebuilding the Expo Line stations.


you mean 18-metres.


----------



## aliso

mr.x said:


> you mean 18-metres.


18-metre cars is what we have now, but if they were made shorter (16 m) then five of them would fit alongside an 80-metre platform.

Anyway... how about an 80 metre train!


----------



## mr.x

Why would we want smaller cars, thus smaller trains and a smaller capacity? We need a greater capacity than what a 80-metre platform can give us. Even right now, we run 4-car Mark II trains....that's 72-metres, not far off from your 80-metre idea.

80-metres wouldn't be able to accommodate the growth in ridership 20 years down the road.


----------



## deasine

HAHA just for fun, I was watching this video. 

http://www.youtube.com/v/zFhOF7lPLng&rel=1

It's just a song by Joey Yung (容祖兒 陪我長大) and is used to advertise the merger between MTR and KCR. In this MV, she sings in both the MTR and KCR (not moving train) and with a bunch of chinese dancing around (that's not what happens in the MTR - more like pushing and shoving). You can also see the gates and the huge ass stations.

They do broadcast on TVB (Hong Kong's main entertainment/news network) as well as on MTR. Have you seen this yet Mr.X?

Here was the TV Advertisement Version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XgxtsdzOxE


----------



## aliso

mr.x said:


> Why would we want smaller cars, thus smaller trains and a smaller capacity? We need a greater capacity than what a 80-metre platform can give us. Even right now, we run 4-car Mark II trains....that's 72-metres, not far off from your 80-metre idea.
> 
> 80-metres wouldn't be able to accommodate the growth in ridership 20 years down the road.


That's true, 80-m trains wouldn't be enough at some point. But my point was that if we by tailored trains to platforms (rather than fitting platforms to trains) we might be able to buy some time so that the Expo Line improvements wouldn't have to be done at the same time as the Millennium Line extension and Coquitlam line.


----------



## adrimm

UrbanBen said:


> What successful BRT biggies?


That's just it there are none in North America- 

But in a globalizing world we would be remiss to consider places further abroad where it has worked very well. In this case; perhaps surprisingly to some, Bogota Colombia's TransMilenio and Jakarta's TransJakarta (built after the Bogota model).

I can tell you I was *not*impressed with the idea of BRT when it was presented to me a few years back, but coincidentally I was travelling (backpacking) in South America in 2006 and stopped in Bogota for awhile - and was totally blown away by what I saw.. it's slick - they really went for it. It cannot be compared to B-Line at all. 

Reason why is that Both TransMilenio and TransJakarta are much closer to a subway or metro than anything else, and they put alot of thought and investment into them, especially the stations.

Bogota basically took Curitiba's idea and built it up to mass transit capacities not just in extent but in quality. There are fixed permanent stations, sliding station doors, smart cards, turnstiles.... A report/guide on the Institute for Trasnportation Development Policy gives capacity figures of 45,000 ppdph, and a UN report a few years back gives capacity figures of 37,000 ppdph.

They copied TransMilenio almost exactly in Jakarta, and it's no coincidence that it works well there too. Unfortunately neither city is exactly the tourism mecca that gets lots of exposure.. and I think that some in North America are perhaps to penny-pinching or arrogant to outright install such quality BRT. 

Try searching Trans-Jakarta (here on Skyscrapers): http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=423272&page=5

PS Capetown in South Africa is also putting in 100 kms of BRT in time for the 2010 World Cup and they've sent *2* delegations to South America already!


----------



## adrimm

ssiguy2 said:


> Closer to home Ottawa's Transitway is an excellent example of true BRT with bus-only roadways not just HOV. L.A.'s Orange Line is also a good example.
> I sure as hell hope Evergreen is SkyTrain. It better be for the amount being spent. If it's not then they are paying WAY to much for standard LRT which almost always come in under $100 mil/KM. It would also be easier to have a standard technology. Why they built the RAV as a small Metro as opposed to a compatible SkyTrain is beyond me.


Mr. X is bang on. The Bogota system is among, if not, the highest functioning (and in my opinion the immediate next best thing to subway) - I hate how skytrain pillars slice Vancouver. 

Why go for mediocrity just becuase it is local when the Bogota example is there already there and is showing LRT-level capacity? It's not like a research trip to Bogota would actually cost much more than a trip to LA or a trip to Ottawa (speaking as someone who has been there).

Check out this vid of one of the Bogota Stations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA4IR7PvO6I


----------



## UrbanBen

adrimm said:


> Mr. X is bang on. The Bogota system is among, if not, the highest functioning (and in my opinion the immediate next best thing to subway) - I hate how skytrain pillars slice Vancouver.
> 
> Why go for mediocrity just becuase it is local when the Bogota example is there already there and is showing LRT-level capacity? It's not like a research trip to Bogota would actually cost much more than a trip to LA or a trip to Ottawa (speaking as someone who has been there).
> 
> Check out this vid of one of the Bogota Stations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA4IR7PvO6I


Bogota is in a place where only 12% of commuters use a car... and that wouldn't be much different without the BRT.


----------



## mr.x

adrimm said:


> Mr. X is bang on. The Bogota system is among, if not, the highest functioning (and in my opinion the immediate next best thing to subway) - I hate how skytrain pillars slice Vancouver.
> 
> Why go for mediocrity just becuase it is local when the Bogota example is there already there and is showing LRT-level capacity? It's not like a research trip to Bogota would actually cost much more than a trip to LA or a trip to Ottawa (speaking as someone who has been there).
> 
> Check out this vid of one of the Bogota Stations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA4IR7PvO6I


Well, something like Transmilenio would be a hard sell to replace SkyTrain. Commuters expect more, want more. Trains are just more attractive.

In Bogota, with such a dense population and severe congestion they have no choice but accept rapid bus as their mode of transport. Anything could work in such a dense area like Bogota, including heavy rail.


----------



## mr.x

^ buy some time? the Expo Line improvements that have been proposed are needed TODAY, nevermind 2020. why not do it right now? 

With the construction of the Evergreen Line and UBC extension as well as the completion of the Canada Line, it will add a lot of ridership to the Expo Line - ridership levels that it cannot sustain without the improvements planned.

And we are buying time right now...Translink has 48 Mark II cars ordered, and will be arriving in 2009.


----------



## Spoolmak

Daguy said:


> Kamloops is super sprawl man. It used to take me more than a hour to get from Aberdeen to my grandma's house in Westsyde when I rode the bus in highschool. There are not enough people to support a transit system that will solve the problem.
> 
> Even I conceed at this point in time the car is the way to go in Kamloops, hands down. That's all I use when I'm there to visit friends and family, despite the fact that I use transit only in Vancouver. Even with increasing traffic Kamloops is still easy to get around.
> 
> Climate change is the central issue at hand to me. So what if 90%+ people use cars in Kamloops, 100,000 ish people out of 4.4 million is a drop in the bucket. More fuel efficient cars are the best bet for people in a town like Kamloops in the near future.


Kelowna is worse for sprawl, and they only have 20,000 more ppl. So, that doesn't really answer my question, but yeah you're right, and traffic in Kamloops is getting pretty out of control.


----------



## Daguy

^^
When you don't count the suburbs the numbers sure come up close. Let's put Westside in a category with Cherry Creek and Savona and compare the two cities and their metro areas:


*Kamloops*

Metro Population: ~92,000 (2006)
City Population: ~80,000 (2006)

Kamloops Area (city proper): 5,686.19 km² 


*Kelowna*

Metro Pop: ~165,000 (2007)
City Pop: ~123,000 (2007)

Kelowna Area (city proper): 548.3 km²


*General conclusions from this comparison:*

1. Kamloops can be considered significantly smaller than Kelowna in terms of population (both city and metro area).

2. Kelowna is much denser: it has ~35% more people in its city proper than in Kamloops' city proper, with a proper city area ~10% of the size of Kamloops'.


*Problems/Concerns with these conclusions:*

1. Kamloops is the product of previously unincorporated municipalities in the 60's. Overall it relatively lacks suburbs, with 87% of the population living within the city proper; in Kelowna only 75% live within the city proper. 

One could argue since incorporation of Westside into Kelowna (population ~28,000) would create a less dense city, so would the differences seen between Kamloops and Kelowna decrease to some extent. 

I can't predict the difference at the moment not knowing the area of Westside, nor could I say if the difference is statistically significant, not having taken stats class in 5 years hehe. 

2. Kamloops has a lot of surrounding mountainous terrain which is not terribly great for development, and TONS of the city's developable land is undeveloped and/or cannot be used for agricultural purposes (unlike Kelowna). 

The area of Kamloops' city proper is deceptive as the current growth boundary of most of the neighbourhoods is nowhere near the city’s municipal limits. Comparison of the density/area of only the land in use in Kamloops and Kelowna would give a different result (lower difference) in areas/densities of the two cities. 

3. Kamloops’ population estimates are from 2006, while Kelowna’s are from 2007. This should decrease the gap between the two populations. 


*My Final Conclusion:*

The densities of Kamloops and Kelowna are, in practical terms, closer than on paper; however, it's still pretty clear there is a large difference between Kamloops and Kelowna, given that Kamloops is ~10 times larger by area, yet has 2/3s of Kelowna’s population.

Lately it may seem like I have been bad mouthing Kamloops, but I want people to know that I absolutely love the city, and spend the majority of my holiday time there. 

I've lived in either Metro Vancouver or Kamloops for all but 1 year of my life, in an almost 50/50 split, and find it impossible not to see similarities between Van and Kelowna. As a teen Kelowna was always the rival town to me. I would love to see Kamloops catch up to Kelowna, but they have both followed different developmental pathways.

Like Vancouver, Kelowna has been free of the freeway. The Okanagan Lake Bridge is the Port Mann of the interior. High density development has arisen along the lake, and highway 97's shopping is tough to avoid as you pass through town.

In Kamloops the freeway bypass on the west side of town has been there since the 70's. Kamloops developed with the freeway, and the product of that can be seen. Kamloops has four malls, and no one would see three of them driving straight through, and barely notice Aberdeen on the way. The freeway bypass is a gas strip with hotels. The image of modern urban living is a little harder to sell. 



*What I think we should do:*

A. Stop comparing the two cities so much. They are different enough as is. Yes it is fun sometimes, but there is a limit to all this Kelowna got this, why didn't Kamloops blah blah stuff. If people in Kamloops really want the same things then we should all be speaking to our local and provincial politicians rather than just posting stuff on here haha. 

B. Be active (myself included) in pressuring the right people to promote infill/redevelopment in Kamloops. 

C. Educate citizens of Kamloops about the benefits of a denser urban core and green living, all the while retaining a sense of patience and realistic goals and expectations. Time is going to be needed, especially in Kamloops.


*P.S.* My bad for posting off topic.


----------



## alesmarv

I think it would be pretty stupid and a waste of money if they bored past Main st. They should just do cut and cover like they always planed. There are no commercial store fronts on 10th and its just a residential type street with hardly any traffic. Its pathetic that I have already read about store owners bitching that they don't want cut and cover on Broadway when that was never the plan and not to mention is virtually impossible because of the extensive sewer, utility, pipe network below it. Not to mention that unlike Cambie its a much more important and used route for traffic and transit that needs to keep running during construction. Thats my two cents.


----------



## jlousa

Acutally an 85M train could fit on the current stations (slight overhang doors still meet the platform), if you had an A/B car on each end and the middle cars were all C cars (probably 3 maybe 4) I imagine capacity would be close to 3 sets of the current A-B cars. Can someone look up the capacity and length of the C cars and see how many would be possible to shove onto our 80M stations. There is a lot of room lost between the ABAB cars. Of course with expanding the stations, the above would still be possible with even bigger trains. I would just like to see C trains as they appear to be a better use then the pairings.


----------



## officedweller

The TBM has started boring again at Vancouver City Centre Station. They have built a steel frame (square, black) off of which the TBM "pushes" in order to get the pressure to grind against the leading edge. You will recall that when the TBM went through the last time, they laid a tunnel tube the whole length of the station. That probably wasn't possible this time given the station superstructure around it. You can see the framework being built in this Tafryn pic (the concrete collars have now been inserted from the steel frame to the station wall).


----------



## officedweller

delete


----------



## officedweller

East Side of Cambie Street Between 64th Avenue and 50th Avenue Scheduled to Re-open to Traffic

http://www.canadaline.ca/uploads/NewsReleases/News557.pdf


----------



## UrbanBen

officedweller said:


> The TBM has started boring again at Vancouver City Centre Station. They have built a steel frame (square, black) off of which the TBM "pushes" in order to get the pressure to grind against the leading edge. You will recall that when the TBM went through the last time, they laid a tunnel tube the whole length of the station. That probably wasn't possible this time given the station superstructure around it. You can see the framework being built in this Tafryn pic (the concrete collars have now been inserted from the steel frame to the station wall).


Yeah, for Beacon Hill in Seattle they dragged the machine through the station excavation and relaunched rather than spending money on tunnel liner segments.


----------



## deasine

alesmarv said:


> I think it would be pretty stupid and a waste of money if they bored past Main st. They should just do cut and cover like they always planed. There are no commercial store fronts on 10th and its just a residential type street with hardly any traffic. Its pathetic that I have already read about store owners bitching that they don't want cut and cover on Broadway when that was never the plan and not to mention is virtually impossible because of the extensive sewer, utility, pipe network below it. Not to mention that unlike Cambie its a much more important and used route for traffic and transit that needs to keep running during construction. Thats my two cents.


I disagree. You have the residents complaining then - and a big reason to comoplain. It's literally right in front of there doorstep. The public won't let the cut-and-cover scheme ever again - I'm pretty sure about that.


----------



## mr.x

^ yea, it's not just the merchants that are complaining it's also the residents. just yesterday, the media ran a story how first it was the trench and now, they've installed temporary tunnel fans that sound like 10 lawnmowers going on at once. Even mentioning cut and cover would be political suicide (not so much for the province, but for the city),


----------



## adrimm

mr.x said:


> Well, something like Transmilenio would be a hard sell to replace SkyTrain. Commuters expect more, want more. Trains are just more attractive.
> 
> In Bogota, with such a dense population and severe congestion they have no choice but accept rapid bus as their mode of transport. Anything could work in such a dense area like Bogota, including heavy rail.


First, I'm not at all saying that you would want to replace skytrain - I've been talking about that RapidBus segment of the Transit funding -> the Bogota model has alot of full features that make it very attractive (I can personally attest that to the rider, it *feels* much closer to skytrain than B-Line), and to boot it has potentially enormous capacity, even at 2/3 of what is used in Bogota.

Yes Bogota is dense and has much lower car ownership (too expensive for many), but that difference is partly the point.. the density and the high cost of driving that Bogota faces are also in our future in many places. Alot of BC communities are geographically restricted, they will spread some, but there will be much densification in the coming decades. Also in the coming decades driving cars will become increasingly expensive as oil costs continue to increase. 

And not *anything* would work in Bogota. TransMilenio competes with busetas, nearly as many taxis as cars, and increasingly the lure of "my own car". It does so successfully becuase during rush hours it is faster than driving the same routes *and* attractive to riders. Many of the station features it has contribute to both the speed of the system, the accessibility for those who are wheel-based, and the overall capacity. Lastly, and possibly most importantly it was affordable - they would not have been able to afford the 85 kms in 10 years that they have if it were rail.

If you can't afford rail, but you need solid transit, then you want a full-feature BRT and the Bogota model is a great example. 
http://www.itdp.org/documents/Annex1 2007 09.pdf


----------



## Spoolmak

Kamloops has grown quite substantially for the past three or so years, and about 7 years ago the population was at 80,000. I'm pretty sure, but I dont think that we're still stucki at 80,000. Whats sad, is that none of kamloops websites or pretty much anything have updated there page with current populations since like 2001. Emporis had been sitting at 80,000 since I can remember, I think we're at least 92,000 in the city, and I mean Aberdeen, Sahali, Pineview, Downtown, Valleyview, Dallas, Barnhartvale, Juniper, Brock, The NS, Rayleigh and Westsyde. I dont know what would be considered our greater area... Savona maybe but I dont even think 1000 people live there


----------



## splashflash

*BRT/LRT west of Arbutus?*



adrimm said:


> First, I'm not at all saying that you would want to replace skytrain - I've been talking about that RapidBus segment of the Transit funding
> 
> If you can't afford rail, but you need solid transit, then you want a full-feature BRT and the Bogota model is a great example.
> 
> 
> I think that the UBC section will be done in stages. The section west of Arbutus could be lrt or brt for a long time.
> 
> From former premier Mike Harcourt:
> 
> 
> _Harcourt supports controversial plans for new Skytrain line to UBC
> Jan, 15 2008 - 1:20 PM
> 
> VANCOUVER/CKNW(AM980) - Former premier and Vancouver mayor --Mike Harcourt-- supports controversial plans for a new Skytrain line to UBC, but he admits numerous details have to be ironed out.
> 
> "And I think that's a really big issue, whether its going to be built all the way out there or whether its going to be built say to arbutus and then, fast bus the rest of the way? I mean, all those issues have got to be addressed yet."
> 
> Harcourt says he's confident businesses along Broadway will not face the problems now troubling merchants along the Cambie corridor.
> _
> 
> The businesses along Broadway would be just as opposed to a brt or lrt along that avenue since it would consume parking space. Businesses hoped for tunnelled Skytrain along 10th Ave when the 2000 Phase II study by the City of Vancouver was in its consultative stage, and the City decided to support tunneled Skytrain.
> 
> Central Broadway rail transit would attract discretionary riders. UBC riders are U-Pass holders, so forced transfers would not deter ridership much between UBC and Arbutus, even if surface transit were used west of Arbutus (or Alma) for many years.


----------



## splashflash

adrimm said:


> That's just it there are none in North America-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But in a globalizing world we would be remiss to consider places further abroad where it has worked very well. In this case; perhaps surprisingly to some, Bogota Colombia's TransMilenio and Jakarta's TransJakarta (built after the Bogota model).
> 
> I can tell you I was *not*impressed with the idea of BRT when it was presented to me a few years back, but coincidentally I was travelling (backpacking) in South America in 2006 and stopped in Bogota for awhile - and was totally blown away by what I saw.. it's slick - they really went for it. It cannot be compared to B-Line at all.
> 
> 
> 
> We should probably call these systems rubber-tyred mini-metros. The acronym BRT has become meaningless. Towns now use BRT for express buses.
Click to expand...


----------



## adrimm

splashflash said:


> adrimm said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's just it there are none in North America-
> 
> 
> 
> We should probably call these systems rubber-tyred mini-metros. The acronym BRT has become meaningless. Towns now use BRT for express buses.
> 
> 
> 
> This makes alot of sense.
> 
> I was really surprised that both things are called BRT considering the enormous gap investment/infrastructure and rider-experiences.
Click to expand...


----------



## deasine

I don't mind the messages as much... as long as you make it clear that the last transfer point stations like at bridgeport:

"Train bound to YVR-Airport on the Airport Line. Passengers to Richmond-bound stations on the Canada Line, please take the next train."


----------



## taiwanesedrummer36

Or if there is some VMS (variable messaging sign) in the stations stating where the next train is heading to.

Who could hear the annoucements? I'd be listening to my iPod.


----------



## deasine

there will be LED displays at the stations and on the trains outside and inside


----------



## Vancouverite

*Translink buys 141 Diesel-Electric Hybrid buses (32 fleet expansion, 109 replacement)*

(A cut and past of my post on SSP)

January 23, 2008
*TransLink, Nova ink hybrid bus deal*

TransLink CEO Pat Jacobsen has announced an *$81.5 million deal with Quebec’s Nova Bus for 141 new diesel-electric ‘hybrid’ buses for delivery beginning next spring.
*
The new buses run on electricity generated by a small diesel engine. Compared to the newest generation diesel buses, the new hybrids will cut greenhouse gas emissions and improve fuel efficiency by 20 per cent.

“The purchase is really two shades of green,” says Jacobsen. “*This order adds 32 buses to our fleet in 2009, with Surrey and the South of Fraser to see 25 more buses as a result, giving more people a cleaner, greener alternative to driving. The remaining 109 will replace some of the oldest vehicles in TransLink’s fleet and reduce all emissions, some by as much as 97 per cent per bus.*”

*She adds that TransLink will order more buses this year for delivery in late 2009.* *“Since 2006, TransLink has purchased more than 620 new buses* of all types to modernize the fleet and expand services. We are extremely grateful for the funding support from the federal gas tax revenue sharing program, without which we simply couldn’t have done as much.”

This latest purchase is in addition to the 126 Nova diesel buses, which began arriving in Vancouver in the summer of 2007. Each of those buses has the lowest greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions profile of any non-electric bus in the TransLink fleet. The latest deal with Nova includes an option to purchase another 110 buses.

TransLink’s new Nova diesel buses have already impressed operators and transit passengers with their style, comfort, manoeuvrability and quiet operation. The Allison Parallel hybrid drive system that will power the latest order performed well in TransLink’s Bus Demonstration project, which involved comprehensive field tests of various bus technologies. Electrically powered vehicles such as trolleys and the new Nova hybrids deliver their best performance on low speed stop-and-go routes.

Nova Bus is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Volvo Bus Corporation, the world’s second largest motor coach and transit bus manufacturing group. The arrival of the Nova LFS Diesels in 2007 marked the first time the buses had gone into service in Metro Vancouver.


Backgrounder: TransLink’s New Fleet of Nova LFS HEV (Hybrid Electric Vehicle) buses

* 141 Nova LFS HEV buses will begin arriving in Spring 2009, 32 will expand TransLink’s fleet and 109 will replace older buses.

* Nova, based in St-Eustache, Quebec and owned by Volvo Group, has been producing buses since 1979, and its customers in Western Canada include BC Transit and transit systems in Regina, Whitehorse, Banff and Strathcona, Alberta.

* The Nova LFS HEV is assembled entirely in Canada, and its unique features include:

o Stainless steel and fiberglass frame construction to eliminate corrosion

o Approx. 800 kg lighter than comparable diesel buses, which helps to lower fuel consumption

o This makes the Nova LFS HEV the cleanest, most fuel-efficient non-trolley buses in the history of TransLink ‘s fleet

* 109 of the new Nova Hybrids will replace some of the oldest buses in TransLink’s fleet, reducing all emissions per bus, some by up to 97 per cent:


1990 MCI Classic	2008 Nova LFS HEV
Carbon Monoxide	4.94 g/km	0.34 g/km
Oxides of Nitrogen	16.69 g/km	3.9 g/km
Volatile Organics	1.08 g/km	0.04 g/km
Particulate matter	0.6 g/km	0.015 g/k

* The Nova LFS has facilities for two wheelchairs, and its large entrance area makes it easier for wheelchairs and scooters to board and disembark.

* The arrival of the Nova hybrid buses in 2009 will allow TransLink to meet its expansion targets, including a planned increase of 25 buses in Surrey and the South of Fraser and 10 additional buses to modernize and expand transit on the North Shore.

* TransLink plans further bus orders this year for delivery in late 2009.


The NOVA Bus Diesel-Electric Hybrid Fact Sheet



















* Mods, just a thought, could this thread become a sticky?


----------



## mr.x

posted by Vancouverite:


--------------

(A cut and past of my post on SSP)

January 23, 2008
*TransLink, Nova ink hybrid bus deal*

TransLink CEO Pat Jacobsen has announced an *$81.5 million deal with Quebec’s Nova Bus for 141 new diesel-electric ‘hybrid’ buses for delivery beginning next spring.
*
The new buses run on electricity generated by a small diesel engine. Compared to the newest generation diesel buses, the new hybrids will cut greenhouse gas emissions and improve fuel efficiency by 20 per cent.

“The purchase is really two shades of green,” says Jacobsen. “*This order adds 32 buses to our fleet in 2009, with Surrey and the South of Fraser to see 25 more buses as a result, giving more people a cleaner, greener alternative to driving. The remaining 109 will replace some of the oldest vehicles in TransLink’s fleet and reduce all emissions, some by as much as 97 per cent per bus.*”

*She adds that TransLink will order more buses this year for delivery in late 2009.* *“Since 2006, TransLink has purchased more than 620 new buses* of all types to modernize the fleet and expand services. We are extremely grateful for the funding support from the federal gas tax revenue sharing program, without which we simply couldn’t have done as much.”

This latest purchase is in addition to the 126 Nova diesel buses, which began arriving in Vancouver in the summer of 2007. Each of those buses has the lowest greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions profile of any non-electric bus in the TransLink fleet. The latest deal with Nova includes an option to purchase another 110 buses.

TransLink’s new Nova diesel buses have already impressed operators and transit passengers with their style, comfort, manoeuvrability and quiet operation. The Allison Parallel hybrid drive system that will power the latest order performed well in TransLink’s Bus Demonstration project, which involved comprehensive field tests of various bus technologies. Electrically powered vehicles such as trolleys and the new Nova hybrids deliver their best performance on low speed stop-and-go routes.

Nova Bus is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Volvo Bus Corporation, the world’s second largest motor coach and transit bus manufacturing group. The arrival of the Nova LFS Diesels in 2007 marked the first time the buses had gone into service in Metro Vancouver.


Backgrounder: TransLink’s New Fleet of Nova LFS HEV (Hybrid Electric Vehicle) buses

* 141 Nova LFS HEV buses will begin arriving in Spring 2009, 32 will expand TransLink’s fleet and 109 will replace older buses.

* Nova, based in St-Eustache, Quebec and owned by Volvo Group, has been producing buses since 1979, and its customers in Western Canada include BC Transit and transit systems in Regina, Whitehorse, Banff and Strathcona, Alberta.

* The Nova LFS HEV is assembled entirely in Canada, and its unique features include:

o Stainless steel and fiberglass frame construction to eliminate corrosion

o Approx. 800 kg lighter than comparable diesel buses, which helps to lower fuel consumption

o This makes the Nova LFS HEV the cleanest, most fuel-efficient non-trolley buses in the history of TransLink ‘s fleet

* 109 of the new Nova Hybrids will replace some of the oldest buses in TransLink’s fleet, reducing all emissions per bus, some by up to 97 per cent:


1990 MCI Classic	2008 Nova LFS HEV
Carbon Monoxide	4.94 g/km	0.34 g/km
Oxides of Nitrogen	16.69 g/km	3.9 g/km
Volatile Organics	1.08 g/km	0.04 g/km
Particulate matter	0.6 g/km	0.015 g/k

* The Nova LFS has facilities for two wheelchairs, and its large entrance area makes it easier for wheelchairs and scooters to board and disembark.

* The arrival of the Nova hybrid buses in 2009 will allow TransLink to meet its expansion targets, including a planned increase of 25 buses in Surrey and the South of Fraser and 10 additional buses to modernize and expand transit on the North Shore.

* TransLink plans further bus orders this year for delivery in late 2009.


The NOVA Bus Diesel-Electric Hybrid Fact Sheet



















* Mods, just a thought, could this thread become a sticky?


----------



## Vancouverite

^ You know, I must have looked right through that sticky a dozen times tonight. Thanks for the move mr.x


----------



## mr.x

Some updates by *Tafryn,* Jan 17:


BROADWAY/CITY HALL STATION


----------



## mr.x

Big update by *Tafryn,* Jan. 18:

BRIDGEPORT OMC WITH NEW TRAINS!






































































































BRIDGEPORT OMC WITH NEW TRAINS!







































































































YVR-AIRPORT STATION





















NORTH ARM BRIDGE












BRIDGEPORT STATION


















































OAKRIDGE-41ST AVENUE STATION - note the platform pillars



































































OMC


----------



## ssiguy2

How big are those vehicles as compared to a MK11? 
Also will the train actually consist of just one of those vehicles or two?


----------



## mr.x

ssiguy2 said:


> How big are those vehicles as compared to a MK11?
> Also will the train actually consist of just one of those vehicles or two?


One Mark II train is 2-articulated cars, 36-metres in length:

(||||||||||||||||||=||||||||||||||||||)


One Rotem Canada Line train is 2-articulated cars, 41-metres in length:

(||||||||||||||||||||==||||||||||||||||||||)


----------



## deasine

And width wise, the Rotem trains are 3m wide.


----------



## mr.x

deasine said:


> And width wise, the Rotem trains are 3m wide.


The Mark II's are 2.5 metres wide....the Canada Line cars are 20% wider.


----------



## Daguy

^^

Nonetheless disturbing to think that 6 car Mark II trains will be running on the expo line in the fairly near future. 20% wider and 5m longer really has nothing on that.


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## UrbanBen

Daguy said:


> ^^
> 
> Nonetheless disturbing to think that 6 car Mark II trains will be running on the expo line in the fairly near future. 20% wider and 5m longer really has nothing on that.


Canada Line is pretty limiting, yes.


----------



## Plumber73

You must be pointing out the potential bottleneck at Broadway and Cambie. I've thought about that too. I don't believe the Millenium Line would completely overwhelm the Canada Line any time soon. I think the idea of six car Mark II trains is to deal with the heavily used Expo Line. The Millenium Line is pretty far from being six packed cars. If there is a threat of that happening, they can always max out and expand the capacity for the Canada Line, and there are a few ways they can do that. Anyway, I'm pretty sure the bulk of people that would use the Millenium Line extension will not be dumping out at Cambie. A lot will want to transfer, but a lot will continue west or east. You've also got to take into account that as many people will be getting off the Canada Line at Broadway, therefore freeing up space.


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## mr.x

I'd say give the Canada Line 15-20 years before it reaches its absolute capacity.

The only way you can "cheaply" increase capacity is:
- buying more cars (there are only 40 cars; makes only 20 trains)
- extending the platforms to 50-metres to fit an additional mini-car
- increase frequency with more trains

"Cheaply" compared to a total system rehaul.

I mean, 50-metres is extremely short-sighted and it does raise the question if the public will take this as a serious transportation alternative. 50-metre platforms is something you would see in Lausaunne, Switzerland...tiny metropolitan areas, not a massive metro area like Vancouver - even if Richmond is not a planned growth area.


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## Daguy

If the planned skytrain expansion goes forward as planned something will be done regardless of whether it ends up being expensive, as it will eventually put too much pressure on the Canada Line, and put pressure on the rapid transit system as a whole.


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## Plumber73

^^Just like our road system.


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## mr.x

In 2044, SNC-Lavalin/InTransitBC's 35-year operations contract for the Canada Line would be over and I see that to be a good time for major improvements to the system.

Like how we're spending more than $3 billion to improve and expand the Expo Line, we'd spend quite a bit as well to increase the capacity of the Canada Line. A fortune would be spent on extending the platforms beyond 50-metres. This could be done at the expense of the taxpayer, with the Canada Line returning to publicly-run operations, or the contract with InTransitBC could be renewed and part of the contract could be to extend the platforms.

But within that 35-year contract, all platforms would be extended to 50-metres and more cars would be purchased.

Some say that the Arbutus line would solve the Canada Line congestion issues, but I doubt it will to a point it would be a long-term solution. It'd certainly relieve some pressure from the Canada Line, but in time again it will be back to just how it was before.


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## Plumber73

^^Just like our road system. :lol:


----------



## UrbanBen

Plumber73 said:


> ^^Just like our road system. :lol:


Well, with the road system, you can't just scale frequencies. You don't have to re-tunnel, two tracks is enough for anything, you just have to dig out bigger stations. Which I'm sure will be necessary before I'm dead.


----------



## ssiguy2

OK OK...............the current EXPO line carries atmost 2 MK11 cars or 6 MK1. 
You mean the EXPO will be able 4 MK11 or 12 MK1? ..........that would double capacity.
Also you mean to tell me that the RAV will only hold the equivalent of 4 MK1 cars? 

How short sighted. I hope the Broadway/MLine will have stations as long as the EXPO new stations { 4MK11/ 12 MK1} so they won't have to go thru this BS in 20 years but they probably won't. That would require vision which Vancouver and Translink both lack.


----------



## mr.x

ssiguy2 said:


> OK OK...............the current EXPO line carries atmost 2 MK11 cars or 6 MK1.
> You mean the EXPO will be able 4 MK11 or 12 MK1? ..........that would double capacity.
> Also you mean to tell me that the RAV will only hold the equivalent of 4 MK1 cars?
> 
> How short sighted. I hope the Broadway/MLine will have stations as long as the EXPO new stations { 4MK11/ 12 MK1} so they won't have to go thru this BS in 20 years but they probably won't. That would require vision which Vancouver and Translink both lack.



You have a misconception of what exactly a Mark II car is. 

Below, you have a 2-car Mark II train:









The articulated bend links two Mark II cars together. They don't act as a car together.


So yes, what they mean is a 6-car Mark II train. Here's a graphic of what it would look like, created by alt-bc:









Car 1-Car 2=Car 3-Car 4=Car 5-Car 6


And yes, the Canada Line trains have a 334 passenger capacity. That's the capacity of a 4-car Mark I train (80 passengers x 4 = 320). That's also equivalent to four-40 foot buses or 2.8 60-foot buses.


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## deasine

i thought the Canada Line trains had a capacity of 400 people. Didn't Kevin Falcon say that in the press conference of the Canada Line train unveiling?


----------



## UrbanBen

deasine said:


> i thought the Canada Line trains had a capacity of 400 people. Didn't Kevin Falcon say that in the press conference of the Canada Line train unveiling?


400 very friendly people. Just like Link Light Rail cars in Seattle have a "capacity" of 200 people (any train has 2 cars, therefore 400 per train as well), but realistically, you'll only get 175-ish on each car.


----------



## alta-bc

UrbanBen said:


> 400 very friendly people. Just like Link Light Rail cars in Seattle have a "capacity" of 200 people (any train has 2 cars, therefore 400 per train as well), but realistically, you'll only get 175-ish on each car.


Depends. Some trains in Tokyo carry up to 250% of their design capacity at rush hour - so maybe the Canada Line cars will carry up to 1000 people :lol:


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## Daguy

I'm guessing that they got the 400 number from including the addition of the 10m mini car to the original 2 cars.

Having said that I have seen some VERY "cozy" skytrain trips in the last couple years as things have gotten pretty nutty during rush hour lol.


----------



## Plumber73

UrbanBen said:


> Well, with the road system, you can't just scale frequencies. You don't have to re-tunnel, two tracks is enough for anything, you just have to dig out bigger stations. Which I'm sure will be necessary before I'm dead.


Sorry. I was actually responding to this specific point.

*>>>>>"Some say that the Arbutus line would solve the Canada Line congestion issues, but I doubt it will to a point it would be a long-term solution. It'd certainly relieve some pressure from the Canada Line, but in time again it will be back to just how it was before."*

You build any kind of transportation route in a growing city, and in time it will become congested. You expand the capacity or build another route, but either way results in congestion again. That's the nature of cities like ours. It's very much like what happens with highway expansion.


----------



## mr.x

Plumber73 said:


> Sorry. I was actually responding to this specific point.
> 
> *>>>>>"Some say that the Arbutus line would solve the Canada Line congestion issues, but I doubt it will to a point it would be a long-term solution. It'd certainly relieve some pressure from the Canada Line, but in time again it will be back to just how it was before."*
> 
> You build any kind of transportation route in a growing city, and in time it will become congested. You expand the capacity or build another route, but either way results in congestion again. That's the nature of cities like ours. It's very much like what happens with highway expansion.


Well yes i totally agree, but I was just saying how people thought the Arubutus line was the god-save solution for the Canada Line. It's like water...build a beaker, and it'll fill up with water. If you build it, they will come.





> i thought the Canada Line trains had *a capacity of 400 people.* Didn't Kevin Falcon say that in the press conference of the Canada Line train unveiling?


IMO, the 400 passenger capacity figure is bogus. Two years ago, they released the same train specifications and same seating plan - with a *passenger capacity of 334 (or 167 per car).* 

Nothing about the train has changed since. It's still primarily a row seating arrangement, 41-metres long and 3-metres wide.

In comparison, the SkyTrain Mark II articulated trains have a capacity of 260 passengers (130 per car). The Canada Line trains are only 20% wider (0.4 metres) and 5-metres longer. I don't think that calls for that much of a capacity difference. So really, that 400-passenger figure is probably bogus.

In Japan, they might be able to reach that kind of capacity with their unique way of cramming everyone in....but come on, Vancouver? People hardly even know how to move back to the bus here, nevermind cramming in. 

The 400-passenger figure would probably be accurate if they had chosen a side seating arrangement instead, like the Hong Kong MTR. In fact, they could probably achieve a capacity even higher than 400-passengers with the side seating arrangement (possibly 500 passengers?). Add in maybe one door to each car as well, for a total of 8-doors on each side...it makes getting in and out a whole lot easier. But that would mean the doors would have to slide in and out outside (to save space, like the existing SkyTrain cars) rather than the pocket doors chosen for the Canada Line trains.

*Do you really believe that 400 people can fit into these trains?*


----------



## officedweller

mr.x said:


> The only way you can "cheaply" increase capacity is:
> - buying more cars (there are only 40 cars; makes only 20 trains)
> - extending the platforms to 50-metres to fit an additional mini-car
> - increase frequency with more trains
> 
> ... even if Richmond is not a planned growth area.


As well as changing the seat configuration. 
The 400 figure must be a "crush" load figure. Usually, two figures are quoted for subway cars - regular and crush load. i.e for the MKI Skytrain - its capacity on a diagram I have is "75 passengers, 40 seated, 35 standing. Up to 110 under crush load conditions." That's an extra 35 passengers (almost 50% more) under "crush load conditions". 

And Richmond not being a growth concentration area under the Livable Region Strategic Plan is a key point. The ultimate capacity of the line would have been determined in conjunction with the LRSP - i.e. it must be backed up by the numbers to justify the costs. By comparison, Coquitlam is slated to get a much larger share of the lower mainland's population - and it is slated to get a surface light rail train with even lower capacity than the Canada Line, based on projected ridership.

As for transfers to the Canada Line at Broadway & Cambie, the capacity improvements on the Expo Line should allw riders to take the more direct transfer at Broadway & Commercial from the M-Line to downtown.


----------



## UrbanBen

Plumber73 said:


> You build any kind of transportation route in a growing city, and in time it will become congested. You expand the capacity or build another route, but either way results in congestion again. That's the nature of cities like ours. It's very much like what happens with highway expansion.


I would say the scaling is quite different from highways - congestion on highways increases travel time, and of course the externalities on surface streets cause overall cost to be vastly higher. And on rails, look at Shinkansen or the Yamanote line. You can scale pretty far without increasing the footprint.


----------



## Plumber73

^^I haven't a clue what you are saying, but it sounds pretty cool.


----------



## allurban

mr.x said:


> So yes, what they mean is a 6-car Mark II train. Here's a graphic of what it would look like, created by alt-bc:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Car 1-Car 2=Car 3-Car 4=Car 5-Car 6
> .


 now that is a cool picture...How serious are these plans to provide 6-car trains on the Expo line? Any kind of timelines? Are the stations long enough at present?

I suppose it would be ok if the train was, say, 4 m longer than the platform...there must be 2m on each side between the train cab and the first set of doors

Hmmm...If Vancouver does it, KL can do it too...Kelana Jaya line is already 40% over capacity during peak hours...even with 4 carriage, 530 passenger, fully articulated trains they will still be about 19% over capacity

Future KL design (iirc):

Car 1-Car 2-Car 3-Car 4
Car 1-Car 2 = Car 3-Car 4

perhaps we might see this: 

Car 1-Car 2-Car 3-Car 4=Car 5-Car 6

Cheers, m


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## mr.x

The Expo Line station improvements and platform extensions will begin in 2009. These improvements will probably be done first, maybe by 2015? There's no timeline to it, not yet. The Surrey Expo Line extension will be done by 2020. These plans are quite serious, definitely not an election promise. Our Premier has put cutting greenhouse gases as a personal goal - he hearts it - and there's every indication right now, unless there's a scandal, that he will be in power for the long haul.

But everything in the $14 billion Transit Plan will be done by 2020. The plan includes purchasing $1 billion worth of additional SkyTrain cars (~300 cars).


Here's another, from alta-bc:


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## mrtfreak

allurban said:


> perhaps we might see this:
> 
> Car 1-Car 2-Car 3-Car 4=Car 5-Car 6


You can safely say that will not happen so don't put your hopes up for it. With the way the stations in KL are designed, it wouldn't be economical to fit that configuration in.

The main thing hindering KL from expansion to 6-car trains would be the underground segment. If they can get around that it might be possible but don't hope for it. Look at the way the extensions are being handled there.

So we now go back to the will the Evergreen Line be SkyTrain or Light Rail after all question...


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## DKaz

I drew the Canada Line train as much to scale as I could in CAD and put some ovals based on my size, 50cm shoulder to shoulder, 22.5cm front to back. Based on crush loading, I was able to fit 182 standees in a car. This would be in addtional to the 48 seated passengers and perhaps 3 people in the articulated joint. In theory we could see at least 230 people per car or 463 people in total fit in these trains at crush loading... take away 30 people per car and you get to what Skytrain is probably loaded to in a typical rush hour.


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## mr.x

^ wow, that's pretty good. thanks for the explanation, i guess it might be _possible_ afterall. 

btw, are you involved with the project?


----------



## DKaz

mr.x said:


> ^ wow, that's pretty good. thanks for the explanation, i guess it might be _possible_ afterall.
> 
> btw, are you involved with the project?


Anything is possible, I think I've seen a Mark I train with 110 people before! This was when there was a medical emergency at Main St. Science World Station so they had one 6-car Mark-I train shuttle serving Waterfront to Stadium, one 6-car Mark-I train shuttle serving Stadium to Broadway (not stopping at Main St.) People were packing on like crazy because they didn't want to wait 10 minutes for the next shuttle to come. The only time I was more packed on a train was when I got caught on a Chuo Line train leaving central Tokyo during the afternoon rush hour.. 

I want to see how many more people I can fit on the poor train. Anyone think 500? 600? Haha. Remember the sideways facing seat fold up for wheelchairs, they can also fold up for more standees. The bicycle/luggage area is a great idea as long as they prevent bicycles from getting on the trains in the peak hour direction.... can't really stop people from bringing on luggage though. But they get first dibs on an empty train anyway.

Oh and I'm not involved in the project, I just looked at the interior train photos and guesstimated the dimensions. I want to draw the Mark-I and Mark-II skytrains to compare... I don't think people realize how big the new cars really are, it's a shame there's only two of them for now.


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## mr.x

Quite a few more updates by Tafryn (Jan. 29):
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com




BRIDGEPORT STATION AND PARK & RIDE/HOTEL




























































YALETOWN-ROUNDHOUSE STATION



































FALSE CREEK TUNNEL















































































OLYMPIC VILLAGE STATION


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## ssiguy2

Like I said, the increased trains are great but that is 50% greater capcity than now not double. 
Currently the stations can handle 2 MK11 cars or 6 MK1. That photo shows capacity at 3MK11 trains or equiv of 9 MK1. Don't get me wrong, that is great but not double. 
Also even with that pic that still won't bring it up to subway capacity.


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## mrtfreak

Sounds kinda exciting the way your transit system has been given a boost on all fronts. There's supposed to be a new order of MKIIs? When will that be delivered?


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## mr.x

mrtfreak said:


> Sounds kinda exciting the way your transit system has been given a boost on all fronts. There's supposed to be a new order of MKIIs? When will that be delivered?


48 Mark II cars will be arriving next year.


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## Ravman

So if you are telling me that the Liberal record all these years is better than the 90s... times have changed... so u are telling me that our dollar is doing well because of gordo. 

the economy of our entire country is better today than it was in the 90s... homelessness is on the rise and so is the creation of the energy crises. you can thank the NDP or should i say gordo when BC is forced to pay the same rates if not higher than what the Americans pay (assuming you all agree that BC has the lowest electricity rates in the entire North America) when gordo's $60 billion privatization is over and done with. 

ok as for the transportation plan.... it was the NDP that built the Millennium line and the expo line extension from scott road to king george. the line goes on for a block or so after the station to park cars and for future upgrades

There was supposed to have been a second phase of the Millennium Line. it was supposed to be an extension from Lougheed Mall to Coquitlam. Now as you all may know switches are installed on the eastern side just outside of Lougheed Station on the and the foundation third platform was laid in anticipation of the extension. Now i wonder who cancelled the plan to continue the line when he took office? we should have had the evergreen line built by now. the extension to ubc was planned for the after the said line was built. 

Turning to the Canada Line: you all know the criticism of the system( single tracking, short platforms et la) so i am not going to even go there...

they tried to upgrade the fleet with MADE IN BC ferries that were supposed to reduce the crossing time, reduce waiting times etc... but it was a good idea that went bad. i mean trying to rebuild an industry is a bad thing... the total cost for each British Columbians was around $100... and i believe that was my economic prof who did the math not me ( 400ish million / 4 ish million people). the new ferries are from germany... our tax dollars went to germany and with the fast cats they stayed in BC. the NDP tried to create jobs and what did it cost British Columbians... only $100... surely none of you have ever wasted $100 so far in your life?

we all can complain after the fact. but at the end of the day i am willing to bet money that the original portion of the transportation plan will be built at the cost and within the time frame provided because i highly doubt it. the evergreen line should have been 4 or 5 years old today and we have yet to see the start of the construction. 

i am saying situation are different than the 90s and you cannot compare apples with oranges. In the meantime i await to see the budget and the details on his plans


----------



## Overground

I am no fan of the NDP but Ravman does make some valid points.


----------



## mr.x

> they tried to upgrade the fleet with MADE IN BC ferries that were supposed to reduce the crossing time, reduce waiting times etc... but it was a good idea that went bad. i mean trying to rebuild an industry is a bad thing... the total cost for each British Columbians was around $100... and i believe that was my economic prof who did the math not me ( 400ish million / 4 ish million people). the new ferries are from germany... our tax dollars went to germany and with the fast cats they stayed in BC. the NDP tried to create jobs and what did it cost British Columbians... only $100... surely none of you have ever wasted $100 so far in your life?


BC Ferries is now privatized (to this date, i'm still not sure if it was a good thing or a bad thing), it's now along the same lines as Air Canada. and really, at the end of the day, all i care about is quality ferry service....and from what i can tell so far, we got a bang out of our buck for those three German made ferries. however, note that our tax dollars did not go towards these new boats - it came out of the ferry corporation on its own...and i would imagine they chose the German supplier to avert a disaster like the Pacificats. 

The same argument could be put to use on Translink's New Flyer trolley fleet purchase. The other bid had far more superior trolleys, promised to deliver 40 extra buses than the set requirement, and it would also be delivered a year ahead of schedule and the cost was even lower than the New Flyer bid. And why did we choose New Flyer? It was Canadian. And now, the result? we have problematic trolleys (and buses) that might not even survive half of their 25-year lifespan.



I don't think anyone can say the Campbell Liberals are perfect, but I certainly do think they are better than our only other alternative. Nobody on the NDP side is capable of leading this province. There is not even one candidate...Carole James is a complete joke.


----------



## EastVanMark

valleyflyfisher said:


> Yup. lets let those wonderfully talented experts in the NDP fix the transportation issues....after all, they did do a bang up job on upgrading the ferry system didn't they.
> 
> Ravman, you joined up very recently and thus far have either cut/pasted a story from the Tyee,:toilet: or bashed the Libs and "Gordo" in every one of your posts. YAWN......get over it dude, the NDP suck and union boss's (NDP leaders) don't know squat about running a province...you must remember the wonderful 90's?


Well said. I guess its pure co-incidence that every time they have been in power, the province has ground to a halt. (Take the 90's. We ended the 80's leading the country in economic growth, became a "have not" province in the 90's then, reassumed our top ranking shortly after the NDP were booted to the curb. Just a co-incidence I'm sure)hno::nuts::nuts:


----------



## DKaz

I wish there were Nova trolleys, I am growing really fond of the Nova buses. They so much more comfortable to ride and so much quieter as well. The wheels look funny like the old Toyota vans but maybe that's why they're more comfy.


----------



## Vancouverite

^ I love the look of the cowling on the New Flyer trolleys. I just wish they had a third door at the back.


----------



## allurban

mr.x said:


> i think we might be going with SkyTrain for the Evergreen Line. With the UBC extension and Surrey extension as SkyTrain, why not go another step further? Not to mention that the new transit plan calls for the Evergreen Line cost to be $1.4 billion....that's more than $400 million more than Translink's LRT proposal, which makes SkyTrain all more likely.


Agreed, agreed...

sorry, I forget that you actually have the money from all 3 levels of government to make this happen...

m was thinking that this might just be a hollow funding announcement...like the ones often heard in toronto...:bash: which leave us wondering when and if anything will actually happen. I think it still amazes many Torontonians to hear that Transit City _will_ happen because the TTC has already got the _guarantee_ of money from the city.

But seriously, I'm very happy for Vancouver, and if the evergreen line is LRT or skytrain, overall it will be a great addition to the lower mainland.

Cheers, m


----------



## deasine

Ravman said:


> So if you are telling me that the Liberal record all these years is better than the 90s... times have changed... so u are telling me that our dollar is doing well because of gordo.
> 
> the economy of our entire country is better today than it was in the 90s... homelessness is on the rise and so is the creation of the energy crises. you can thank the NDP or should i say gordo when BC is forced to pay the same rates if not higher than what the Americans pay (assuming you all agree that BC has the lowest electricity rates in the entire North America) when gordo's $60 billion privatization is over and done with.
> 
> ok as for the transportation plan.... it was the NDP that built the Millennium line and the expo line extension from scott road to king george. the line goes on for a block or so after the station to park cars and for future upgrades
> 
> There was supposed to have been a second phase of the Millennium Line. it was supposed to be an extension from Lougheed Mall to Coquitlam. Now as you all may know switches are installed on the eastern side just outside of Lougheed Station on the and the foundation third platform was laid in anticipation of the extension. Now i wonder who cancelled the plan to continue the line when he took office? we should have had the evergreen line built by now. the extension to ubc was planned for the after the said line was built.
> 
> Turning to the Canada Line: you all know the criticism of the system( single tracking, short platforms et la) so i am not going to even go there...
> 
> they tried to upgrade the fleet with MADE IN BC ferries that were supposed to reduce the crossing time, reduce waiting times etc... but it was a good idea that went bad. i mean trying to rebuild an industry is a bad thing... the total cost for each British Columbians was around $100... and i believe that was my economic prof who did the math not me ( 400ish million / 4 ish million people). the new ferries are from germany... our tax dollars went to germany and with the fast cats they stayed in BC. the NDP tried to create jobs and what did it cost British Columbians... only $100... surely none of you have ever wasted $100 so far in your life?
> 
> we all can complain after the fact. but at the end of the day i am willing to bet money that the original portion of the transportation plan will be built at the cost and within the time frame provided because i highly doubt it. the evergreen line should have been 4 or 5 years old today and we have yet to see the start of the construction.
> 
> i am saying situation are different than the 90s and you cannot compare apples with oranges. In the meantime i await to see the budget and the details on his plans


No one says the high canadian dollar was because of gordo... But booming provincial economies do have an influence over the national economy. Currently though, Alberta's economy (because of their oil) really has the biggest influence. 

With regards to the SkyTrain extensions by the NDP, I have to say that it's true, the NDP did improve our transit system and laid the foundation for future extensions. I thank NDP for that. Now we have Gordon Campbell stepping up the plate and presenting us a goal that I'm pretty sure we would make - we need all those rapid transit lines! Sure the Provincial plan was a package of rapid transit/bus lines all over the map, but we now see that the Government of British Columbia is committed in helping out. We now see that the Government of British Columbia is trying their best to urge the Federal Government to help out. 

Now with the Canada Line - yes we complain about this and that. We are just requesting a lot. But at the end of the day, we are happy to see there is some sort of rapid transit line go from Downtown to Airport and Downtown to Vancouver. 

I would say it's a good move they canceled AND held up the Evergreen Line - I'm pretty sure it would've been LRT. Now we see that there is a chance the Evergreen Line will be a SkyTrain. Go to SCP for Falcon's quote.

Ironically, despite NDP's huge infrastructure projects, they made the BC economy turn for the worst. Glen Clark's crazy over-budget fast ferries that are sitting in the Burrard inlet collecting dust and his other frivolous spending habits resulted in huge economical losses. So then the BC Liberals actually had to sweep up their mess they created, which included many cuts to the budget. But because of those cuts and spending money properly, along with the improving Canadian economy, our local economy moved towards the sky. Now here we have the NDP criticizing about the many cuts - well what can the liberals do? Continue seeing tax dollars slip from our hands or start doing some major cut backs in order to start saving money and finally have enough to invest in BC's economy? Because of all those spending cuts, we see business confidence begin to improve, leading up to the booming British Columbian economy today. Unemployment declined to levels not seen since the 1960s - right now, we even have labour shortages.

Also note the Fast Ferries were really expensive to run, lots of gas to make a ferry go fast. We were literally flushing money down the toilet. Great job Glen Clarke!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm hoping to see a lot of the transit initiatives be P3 - that way, BC taxpayers won't have to be on the hook. Look at a great example of P3: the Canada Line. We are seeing on-time construction and it's on budget. How many infrastructure projects are on budget and on time?


----------



## deasine

Anyway I posted this up at SCP - it's in BETA stages =P


----------



## DKaz

deasine said:


> Anyway I posted this up at SCP - it's in BETA stages =P


Looks great, but hate to tell you that the North Burnaby Station's been canceled due to the technicality of things. It would've been really nice but at this point I guess it's not feasible. The best place to put a station would've been north of Willingdon Ave but the Chevron refinery's already there. Also I think that the Airport and Richmond branch should just be called Canada Line altogether which it will be. There are many other subway lines that have a same line serving a few branches, you just have to look at the destination sign or listen for the announcement. Seems weird at first but I think they'll stick with it. One more thing, it's Guildford not Guilford. And I think you should put the airport-airplane symbol at YVR so tourists know that YVR means the airport. Oh and one more thing (last one promise) the Millennium Line's green looks like the Richmond Line's green west of Lougheed...

Don't get me wrong, I love it!


----------



## deasine

DKaz said:


> Looks great, but hate to tell you that the North Burnaby Station's been canceled due to the technicality of things. It would've been really nice but at this point I guess it's not feasible. The best place to put a station would've been north of Willingdon Ave but the Chevron refinery's already there. Also I think that the Airport and Richmond branch should just be called Canada Line altogether which it will be. There are many other subway lines that have a same line serving a few branches, you just have to look at the destination sign or listen for the announcement. Seems weird at first but I think they'll stick with it. One more thing, it's Guildford not Guilford. And I think you should put the airport-airplane symbol at YVR so tourists know that YVR means the airport. Oh and one more thing (last one promise) the Millennium Line's green looks like the Richmond Line's green west of Lougheed...
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I love it!


No I like comments (particularity positive ones LOL) but thanks for telling me. I didn't notice the spelling mistake with Guildford. I will change that tomorrow.

Good call with the airplane logo. 

Now with the comment of the Canada Line should be one line - I don't completely agree. I just think it's easier for people. And for political reasons, we can say we built two lines instead of one. Actually, I think I should change the name to YVR Line just to recognize the fact that YVR did pour lots of money into the project.

Pity with the North Burnaby station =( I guess I do have to remove it.

Thanks for commenting =)


----------



## zivan56

deasine said:


> Ironically, despite NDP's huge infrastructure projects, they made the BC economy turn for the worst. Glen Clark's crazy over-budget fast ferries that are sitting in the Burrard inlet collecting dust and his other frivolous spending habits resulted in huge economical losses. So then the BC Liberals actually had to sweep up their mess they created, which included many cuts to the budget.


Any do we recall why? Because BC Ferries wanted a catamaran that rides low in the water...an oxymoron. A new ferry design takes time to get right, and no time was given for this. The only reason they are standing there is because of politics and to remind people.
BC Ferries couldn't care less if you gave them a WW2 ship, they would run it as long as it works, much less has minor issues. Let's not forget the NIMBYS complaining that their dinghys are being damaged when anything above 5 knots passes by; forcing them to run at a low non cruise speed. The only reason they were pulled was due to the change in government.
Kind of reminds me of the parliament building in Sarajevo, the tallest building in the city, which was left for ~12 years burned out to "remind" the people of "those" people (even when offered to be repaired for free).


----------



## nova9

Have I been living under a rock but when did the new Nova buses start announcing stops and displaying stop names? I got on the 20 Victoria and the led display showed the upcoming station and the creepiest lady robot voice announced the next stop. took me by surprise.


----------



## deasine

zivan56 said:


> Any do we recall why? Because BC Ferries wanted a catamaran that rides low in the water...an oxymoron. A new ferry design takes time to get right, and no time was given for this. The only reason they are standing there is because of politics and to remind people.
> BC Ferries couldn't care less if you gave them a WW2 ship, they would run it as long as it works, much less has minor issues. Let's not forget the NIMBYS complaining that their dinghys are being damaged when anything above 5 knots passes by; forcing them to run at a low non cruise speed. The only reason they were pulled was due to the change in government.
> Kind of reminds me of the parliament building in Sarajevo, the tallest building in the city, which was left for ~12 years burned out to "remind" the people of "those" people (even when offered to be repaired for free).


True, BC Ferries did wanted a catamaran. But then BC Ferries did want to start leasing a similar ship before jumping to conclusions. We could have had a chance to not spend as much money. Instead, Glen Clark decided to go with building the Fast Cats straight away, a political move that ultimately costed the NDP party.


----------



## DKaz

LRT out, Skytrain in?
http://www.translink.bc.ca/About_TransLink/News_Releases/news02010801.asp



nova9 said:


> Have I been living under a rock but when did the new Nova buses start announcing stops and displaying stop names? I got on the 20 Victoria and the led display showed the upcoming station and the creepiest lady robot voice announced the next stop. took me by surprise.


Yea they're starting to test the new system on random trolley, 99 B-Line, 160, 169, 701, and a couple other routes' trips. They're asking passengers to send feedback and once they work out all the kinks roll out the system to all routes.


----------



## Ravman

nova9 said:


> Have I been living under a rock but when did the new Nova buses start announcing stops and displaying stop names? I got on the 20 Victoria and the led display showed the upcoming station and the creepiest lady robot voice announced the next stop. took me by surprise.


i dont recall seeing novas on a trolley route that started announcing routes moreover i dont recall ever seeing a led display on the novas... are you sure it was a nova... i have seen them on the new flyers tolleys ( the led display et al)


----------



## nova9

i stand corrected. yes, the new flyers is what i meant.


----------



## deasine

yes I agree the women has a disgusting voice. I commented on SCP that it sounds a little to "navigation-car" like or too computer like.



> January 25, 2008
> Improving accessibility for all: TransLink tests new management & communications system
> 
> Customers on certain transit routes throughout Metro Vancouver will notice something new on selected buses for the next few weeks: an automated voice and an information display announcing the next stops.
> 
> Coast Mountain Bus Company is testing TMAC – the new Transit Management and Communications system – on 23 buses throughout the fleet. “This development is just one of the service and safety improvements we’ll see as a result of TransLink’s $40 million investment in a new radio system for the bus fleet,” says TransLink CEO Pat Jacobsen. TMAC – built onto a communications platform provided by Init Innovations in Transportation of Virginia – improves communication, schedule reliability and safety in a variety of ways.
> 
> For example, TMAC enables GPS (Global Positioning System) location of individual buses, so that dispatchers can respond to traffic and demand patterns and change route assignments accordingly. Buses can also be located more accurately in the event of an emergency in which the operator is not able to communicate the position.
> 
> GPS location would also allow for further improvements in customer information functions, such as the newly launched Next Bus feature. Currently, Next Bus tells the user when the next six buses are scheduled to arrive at a given stop. With GPS, Next Bus will be able to tell a customer when the next six buses are actually expected to arrive.
> 
> Another feature enabled by TMAC is the “annunciator”: customers riding some of the new buses will hear the automated message on the next stop while LED panels in the ceiling display the same information.
> 
> The annunciator helps fill a need long called for by advocates in the disability community: improved access for visually impaired people. TransLink has worked closely with the disability community for many years, developing ways of making conventional public transportation more accessible to more people.
> 
> TMAC will be tested at random through January 31 on all trolley routes, as well as on selected 99 B-Line, #160, #190 #601 and #701 buses. The pilot test will include a customer survey, to help “fine tune” the system before it is installed on other buses in the fleet.


You can always comment on the voices when they start their customer survey...

The current navigation GPS system and Automated Voices with LED Stop Display is created by init.


----------



## deasine

My ringtone was "please stand back from the doors (with canto and mando) and that beep beep beep"

SkyTrain did have a message about garbage and recycling, but it was recorded (on like a tape) and played over like a skytrain attendant message. But I don't hear it anymore...

The MARK Is also have small ads (like one fifth size) about keeping the system clean.

^Reply Mr. X:
Yes like a crappy windows one. I hate the fact that the last word the "computer says" is so cut-off, Avenue sounds like Aven or Street souns like stree


----------



## bils

deasine said:


> My ringtone was "please stand back from the doors (with canto and mando) and that beep beep beep"


you mean "ching mut kow gun chei moon"? :lol:


----------



## deasine

yup yup yup =D


----------



## stanleycup

deasine said:


> My ringtone was "please stand back from the doors (with canto and mando) and that beep beep beep"
> 
> SkyTrain did have a message about garbage and recycling, but it was recorded (on like a tape) and played over like a skytrain attendant message. But I don't hear it anymore...
> 
> The MARK Is also have small ads (like one fifth size) about keeping the system clean.
> 
> ^Reply Mr. X:
> Yes like a crappy windows one. I hate the fact that the last word the "computer says" is so cut-off, Avenue sounds like Aven or Street souns like stree


I'm actually using the Please Stand Back from the Doors as my ringtone currently and with stations from Prince Edward to Tsim Sha Tsui. I love the ringtone.

As for the 99 B-Line voices, I don't like it. The announcement for Macdonald sounds really slurred. I still can't make out the Willow St. announcement. It probably the worst announcement of them all. The once time that I went to Broadway Station on the new buses, they said North Grandview Hwy instead of Broadway or Commercial Dr. I wonder if others have heard this before too.


----------



## deasine

The current automated messages only say the location of the bus stove relative to the map. I don't think the 99 B-Line bus stop @ Broadway Station is entered as "Broadway station" but instead "Westbound E Broadway @ Commercial Drive Bay 2"

I think they will change that as they want to "attract more tourists" using the transit system and "include attractions and destinations"


----------



## Mac Write

Ravman said:


> they would need to install switches to go directly from the tunnel to the bridge... but it could go to towards columbia and then back out?


I should have been more clear. It comes into Columbia Station Inbound track and says unloading only or something then goes to the switch just outside the platform and switches to an outbound train to King George. But now that I think about it, going back to VCC-Clark, Columbia Outbound would still be a transfer point (but only that platform). Maybe they already ran this senerio (SP) through before Millennium Line construction started.


----------



## canucker16

i didn't even know they had announcements on buses until i had to take the bus the other day and they announced some stops and the setup was so different. it had seats facing front and back and was just arranged really weirdly


----------



## nova9

bils said:


> you mean "ching mut kow gun chei moon"? :lol:


Haha! I love that. I can still hear it in my ear. the entire thing. "ching mut kow gun che moon. qing bu yao kao jin che men. please stand back from the doors." and the ladie's cute british accent always gets me.


----------



## mr.x

Updates by *Tafryn,* February 2, 2008:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/


LANSDOWNE STATION









































































































RICHMOND-BRIGHOUSE STATION


----------



## deasine

don't forget the BEEPS!!!!!!


----------



## worldwide

has anyone seen the skytrain rap on youtube? its a funny vid


----------



## deasine

This is what our RapidBus transit system SHOULD look like. Maybe Kevin Falcon should visit Bogata.

Watch this video and experience art in reality/
http://www.streetfilms.org/archives/bus-rapid-transit-bogota/


----------



## mr.x

more updates from *Tafryn,* Feb. 06, 2008:



BROADWAY-CITY HALL STATION




























The Broadway platform









































Olympic Village Station approach


----------



## Ravman

Here is an article from the CBC... and all i can say is wow, there is really a hidden agenda(quite literally) from this govt.... 

TransLink pay scale raises eyebrows in B.C.

Directors of the Greater Vancouver transit authority have raised eyebrows by voting to award themselves a hefty pay package.

*Behind closed doors and without issuing a press release, the TransLink board approved a wage scale that pays six times more than what the previous board was being paid to do similar work.*

As a result, TransLink directors will be entitled to *$1,200 per meeting*.

Chairman Dale Parker will make $100,000 a year, an amount that is double what his predecessor earned.

News of the increases come after the B.C. Ministry of Transportation restructured the TransLink board last year, replacing elected directors with appointed ones.

Former B.C. Premier Mike Harcourt chaired the steering committee that recommended the new pay scale, described as "unprecedented" by New Democratic Party critic Maureen Karagianis.

She said the money is going to a group that is using taxpayers' dollars and is supposed to be working in the best interest of the taxpayer.

Other municipal officials said the pay scale will spark a public outcry.

"I think the public is going to be outraged,'' said Burnaby Mayor Derek Corrigan.

Delta Mayor Lois Jackson said she was disappointed to learn that the TransLink board had approved the pay increase.

"I don't know how they can justify those kinds of dollars,'' she said. "We are not in these positions to make money. We are in these positions to serve the public.''

But Harcourt took a different view, saying higher pay was needed to attract the type of people the committee wanted for the job.

"It was a big important role for the Lower Mainland and we wanted to attract some really good talent, which I think we did,'' he said.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/02/08/bc-translink.html

This is exactly what i mean of a hidden agenda. This was a closed door meeting with no agenda. It is clear WHY they didn't publish an agenda. They wanted to give themselves a huge pay increase and all the while raising the transit rates this past january. This Liberal government clearly has it priorities elsewhere and cannot be trusted to do what is right for British Columbians.


----------



## mr.x

^ that would certainly be an ideal suburban bus rapid transit system. i really do hope that Falcon and co. take a seriously look at that, rather than choosing only to purchase a few hundred rapid buses then jabbing a bus stop sign on the ground....and then doing the Falcon announcement thingy: "voila, your new rapid bus".


----------



## mr.x

Ravman said:


> ok guys this is not an article from The Tyee but infact CBC
> 
> TransLink pay scale raises eyebrows in B.C.
> 
> Directors of the Greater Vancouver transit authority have raised eyebrows by voting to award themselves a hefty pay package.
> 
> *Behind closed doors and without issuing a press release, the TransLink board approved a wage scale that pays six times more than what the previous board was being paid to do similar work.*
> 
> As a result, TransLink directors will be entitled to *$1,200 per meeting*.


Well, you have to consider that the previous Board of Directors were politicians that were basically firing guns at random directions. The new Board of Directors are professionals with expertise in their fields...i think the pay raise is quite justified, and it is comparable to what YVR board of directors make. $7,200 for the 6 meetings they attend each year isn't much.


----------



## deasine

Funny... weren't the NDP in favor of having a pay-raise when the Liberal Government purposely suggested a pay-raise in Victoria? Then flip flopping and didn't want the pay-raise because of the negative media attention and anger from the public?


----------



## Songoten2554

wow its progressing alot thats good Vancouver is lucky that its getting two new metro lines while Miami is getting none so ever its sad but good luck Vancouver


----------



## Vancouverite

I'm still in some degree of shock that the US government is pulling the plug on its support of the rapid transit lines/extensions in both Florida and Washington. The Federal component was not even that large in either event. What gives? Is it genuinely a case of there being no money left over because of Iraq or is it some sort of vindictive parting shot by the Republicans as they are about to be turfed out of office?


----------



## Ravman

but when the public were appalled, we agreed to donate it to charity. i know some mlas ( ndp) have created scholarships for students in their community and others have given to other needy causes like the food back et al.


----------



## UrbanBen

Vancouverite said:


> I'm still in some degree of shock that the US government is pulling the plug on its support of the rapid transit lines/extensions in both Florida and Washington. The Federal component was not even that large in either event. What gives? Is it genuinely a case of there being no money left over because of Iraq or is it some sort of vindictive parting shot by the Republicans as they are about to be turfed out of office?


The Republicans currently in office are of the opinion that the federal government should be "smaller".

But that's a political opinion. The reason specifically for the cuts is that they reduced the budget of the FTA, so they had to pick and choose what projects to support. Seattle is currently the best on the list (I really hope we're safe).


----------



## deasine

Ravman said:


> but when the public were appalled, we agreed to donate it to charity. i know some mlas ( ndp) have created scholarships for students in their community and others have given to other needy causes like the food back et al.


That was after negative publicity, and then after that, Carole James was known as the public flip flop of 2007. It was 2007 right? =P If it wasn't that big of a deal from the media, the NDP would have gone for it already.

I love these political discussions ravman. I learn so much from them. Keep them going =D


----------



## mr.x

^ even smaller? IMO, the American federal government's responsibilities towards its own citizens seems quite minimal....i mean, almost all of the attention and money is directed towards overseas. There are a lot of social and infrastructural problems in the states that need government support in order to be fixed, I really don't get this "socialism/communism" paranoia.


----------



## spongeg

mr.x said:


> Well, you have to consider that the previous Board of Directors were politicians that were basically firing guns at random directions. The new Board of Directors are professionals with expertise in their fields...i think the pay raise is quite justified, and it is comparable to what YVR board of directors make. $7,200 for the 6 meetings they attend each year isn't much.


i agree

in the long run them being buisness professionals and coming from the business world they will probably be able to do better financially than the politicians who occupied the board before - and probably eliminate some of the petty squabbles that went on between the mayors/councillors who were on the board before


----------



## Dale

mr.x said:


> ^ even smaller? IMO, the American federal government's responsibilities towards its own citizens seems quite minimal....i mean, almost all of the attention and money is directed towards overseas. There are a lot of social and infrastructural problems in the states that need government support in order to be fixed, I really don't get this "socialism/communism" paranoia.


Some of us Americans are of the conviction that government does nothing well. It's not so much a fear of communism as a desire to be free of government.


----------



## allurban

Songoten2554 said:


> wow its progressing alot thats good Vancouver is lucky that its getting two new metro lines while Miami is getting none so ever its sad but good luck Vancouver


how fast is the traveling girder traveling?

Cheers, m


----------



## mr.x

allurban said:


> how fast is the traveling girder traveling?
> 
> Cheers, m


I believe one span (between two concrete columns) takes between 3-5 days.


----------



## DKaz

Riding on the West Coast Express TrainBus on my way home got me thinking... I really wouldn't mind paying extra for a premium transit service. High back reclining seats, fully air conditioned, quiet comfortable ride. Also pulling a page from the Orleans Express buses in Quebec, leatherette seating (I think real leather might get some protests in our city...) and and laptop plugs... might be hard to compete against skytrain in terms of speed though.

In Japan they would often run premium trains on the same tracks as regular service trains... you have to pay like a few hundred yen extra for the trip though.


----------



## mr.x

a few hundred yen is like a penny Canadian right? j/k.


----------



## Mac Write

At today's rates 200yen is $1.87 and 300 is $2.87.


----------



## allurban

mr.x said:


> I believe one span (between two concrete columns) takes between 3-5 days.


that is pretty fast...

I notice that the columns arent that tall either...how high is the guideway above street level?

Also, what are the reasons for having these lower height guideways (if any)?

Last, how does the height of the guideway of the Canada line compare to the other lines?

Cheers, m


----------



## spongeg

mr.x said:


> Burnaby Mountain is in Burnaby, where SFU is. The Evergreen Line's tunnel is beneath Coquitlam at a section where slope goes uphill quite steeply, unsuitable for LRT and SkyTrain. But you're right, a station is not possible. I believe they said the deepest section of the tunnel would be 16-stories above ground.
> 
> Seattle has a pretty deep station for its new LRT line. Beacon Hill station is extremely deep...passengers need to get to the platform by massive elevators.


there isn't much of a need in that slope area - its pretty undense


----------



## mr.x

allurban said:


> that is pretty fast...
> 
> I notice that the columns arent that tall either...how high is the guideway above street level?
> 
> Also, what are the reasons for having these lower height guideways (if any)?
> 
> Last, how does the height of the guideway of the Canada line compare to the other lines?
> 
> Cheers, m


Well for one thing, lower guideways cost less money. You also don't want to build too high unless it is absolutely necessary (like at the Bridgeport interchange or the bridge approaches) as Richmond is a flood plain. They also look less obstructive (or what some would call "hideous") to the street. It's more friendly to the street.

Bridgeport flyover interchange/track switch


----------



## spongeg

the existing lines aren't that much higher - richmond has the benefit of being flat - where as the old lines have a lot more up and down terrain to meander over so you do get some high spots but most isn't that high


----------



## van-island

Lots of examples of Japanese tokkyu (special express) trains on the Japan board if anyone is interested. 

I remember my first few months in Japan before I could read or speak I would see these empty carriages on trains and think "Great, a car all to myself!" Turns out I was getting on the tokkyu trains. The conductor even passed by me every time, and he only charged me extra once. He probably felt sorry for the dumb illiterate foreigner...


----------



## DKaz

Lol when did you finally figure it out? When the conductor finally charged you?

I rode it once from Tokyo to Tachikawa on the Chuo Line with my girlfriend going home from a Christmas lights display. We didn't know we had to buy our tickets together to sit together, she had to apologize to a guy who's seat I took to sit with her. Oops.

Nice and comfy trains, it's worth the few hundred yen if you don't want to be packed like sardines on the regular trains... and the trip was probably 35-40 minutes instead of the usual 50 minutes on the rapid trains.


----------



## van-island

About a month later when I learnt the characters - 特急!

I agree the trains are nice, but their regular trains are so far ahead of anything we have here that I don't even mind traveling on the regular ones


----------



## allurban

Do you find that noise becomes an issue with the lower guideway? Or does the presence of buildings and other street noise help mask the noise?

Cheers, m


----------



## officedweller

Where noise is a concern, they'll install sound barriers along the guideway.

I agree that the primary reason would be to prevent the guideway from towering over the streetscape. The main factor that ameliorates the presence of the guideway is having it located on the side of the street - not in the middle. That allows smaller station houses that do not dominate their surroundings too much. If the guideway was in the middle of the street, it would have to be taller to fit a mezzanine level under it to access the stations - that would have meant a larger structure and excessive shadowing on the street. 
From the pics, you can see that the guideway does not seem obtrusive when beside buildings.


----------



## allurban

officedweller said:


> Where noise is a concern, they'll install sound barriers along the guideway.
> 
> I agree that the primary reason would be to prevent the guideway from towering over the streetscape. The main factor that ameliorates the presence of the guideway is having it located on the side of the street - not in the middle. That allows smaller station houses that do not dominate their surroundings too much. If the guideway was in the middle of the street, it would have to be taller to fit a mezzanine level under it to access the stations - that would have meant a larger structure and excessive shadowing on the street.
> From the pics, you can see that the guideway does not seem obtrusive when beside buildings.


Yes, you are quite correct about that.

Im quite interested because of the proposals for the extension of Kuala Lumpur's Kelana Jaya line into my current home. The current proposal is through a residential area and residents are not happy with it...but it might be possible to build some of the alignment alongside commercial areas and major roads...

KL's monorail really changes it's appearance when it moves from the centre of the road alignment to the side of the road....

You are correct that having the guideway alongside a major road (rather than through the centre) would reduce the visual impact and make it more accessible to potential passengers. 

It bears exploring. Thanks for the information.

Cheers, m


----------



## mr.x

deasine said:


> That would be the only way unfortunately. I don't think there's even enough room to have another platform, unless it is suspended above No. 3 Road.


They would probably have to close one lane of No.1 Road to make dual platforms.


----------



## mrtfreak

I see. But probably they built it this way as they're really convinced that there won't be any further extensions southwards and they wouldn't want it (hence a single platform terminus). Another alternative would be to build another platform on top of the current one but that defeats the purpose of the line following the side of the road - to eliminate massiveness.


----------



## mr.x

mrtfreak said:


> I see. But probably they built it this way as they're really convinced that there won't be any further extensions southwards and they wouldn't want it (hence a single platform terminus). Another alternative would be to build another platform on top of the current one but that defeats the purpose of the line following the side of the road - to eliminate massiveness.


Well actually, there was a report out there that mentioned that the final Richmond segment was designed to accommodate a future southern extension of the line. However, no mention of how that would work.





Updates from *Tafryn,* Feb. 19:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/



WATERFRONT STATION\

The support columns for the hallway/corridor to the platform. Perhaps they might use glass for the walls....


----------



## Ravman

one question inregards to b-way station... what happened with that... i cant remember if an agreement was reached on where to place the station and how it would tie into future skytrain to ubc


----------



## mr.x

Ravman said:


> one question inregards to b-way station... what happened with that... i cant remember if an agreement was reached on where to place the station and how it would tie into future skytrain to ubc


The UBC extension of the M-Line would have to go under the shallow Canada Line tunnel on either Broadway or 10th Avenue (most likely 10th). There's a knockout panel at the Canada Line station's mezzaine that will allow an entrance to the M-Line station. As well, the Crossroads development across the street will have a future entrance to the Canada Line and Millennium Line stations.


----------



## Daguy

^^

Ok so when the Canada Line hits it's maximum capacity and the stations have to be modified for longer platforms (beyond 50m) is it possible to do this given the shallow cut-and-cover tunnel with the M-Line running underneath it?


----------



## mr.x

Daguy said:


> ^^
> 
> Ok so when the Canada Line hits it's maximum capacity and the stations have to be modified for longer platforms (beyond 50m) is it possible to do this given the shallow cut-and-cover tunnel with the M-Line running underneath it?


Well, any platform extension of Broadway beyond 50-metres would have to be south of the station. A north extension would probably be too difficult, from what diagrams tell me....the roof of the tunnel/platform would be only a few metres from the road, and I would think that the tunnel makes a dive north of the station (as Cambie is downhill after Broadway).

With the south extension (look at the diagram), you could move the tunnel ventilation fans elsewhere and use that space for a platform extension. The tunnel fan room itself could be an extension of the concourse, and you could have an extra pair of escalators and staircase running down to the platforms from the concourse.










But of course, this would take some big $$$.


----------



## mr.x

Pictures from flickr, taken today.


Construction going on at the future site of Brighouse-Richmond City Centre Station.












The tail track at Richmond City Centre is now complete.


----------



## officedweller

mr.x said:


> Well actually, there was a report out there that mentioned that the final Richmond segment was designed to accommodate a future southern extension of the line. However, no mention of how that would work.


If they don't remove the single guideway segments and replace them with dual guideway, the existing guideway would just be a two-way single track segment between dual track guideways. Yes, it would be a choke point, but the frequency of trains at the end of the line would be low enough to accommodate this. 
If they replaced the guideway with dual guideway, my guess is that the guideway would have to have a slightly different design to be structurally strong on the smaller support columns - i.e. more reinforcing in the concrete segments or maybe even steel box girders?
WRT a station, worst case scenario is you build bents across No. 3 Rd. and place the southbound platform on them.


----------



## mr.x

More updates by *Tafryn*, Feb. 22
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/



YVR-AIRPORT STATION

Dual to single track transition



















Station










































Templeton Road Underpass













SEA ISLAND CENTRE STATION
































































































TEMPLETON STATION





































































YALETOWN-ROUNDHOUSE STATION













VANCOUVER CITY CENTRE STATION


----------



## city_thing

Hi Mr. X,

Long time listener, first time caller here.

I was just wondering with the paint job on the new Canada line trains, are they going to leave a lot of the carriage the 'industrial grey' that they have in this photo?

It doesn't look that nice. Even if they just painted the rest of it white, with the blue/green feature at the front, then it would look a lot better. As they are, they just look a bit cheap...


----------



## mr.x

^ i have to agree with you, but i guess we'll just have to live with it. The areas that are unpainted will be for future advertisement space:










The ads, and overall train, would probably look better if all the grey spots were painted white.


----------



## xote

I am surprised that there is so much of the route above ground. :dunno:


----------



## mr.x

xote said:


> I am surprised that there is so much of the route above ground. :dunno:


It's above ground where land is a delta, river sediments gathering together at the mouth of a river. Where it's above ground, it's either at sea level or below sea level. Putting it underground would be extremely expensive (since you'd be digging a hole, and it would fill with water), and it would also be too time consuming. The project is already on a very tight budget.

Canada Line: 19 km
- bored tunnel: 3-km
- cut and cover tunnel: 6-km
- elevated: 7-km
- ground level: 2-km


----------



## xote

mr.x said:


> It's above ground where land is a delta, river sediments gathering together at the mouth of a river. Where it's above ground, it's either at sea level or below sea level. Putting it underground would be extremely expensive (since you'd be digging a hole, and it would fill with water), and it would also be too time consuming. The project is already on a very tight budget.
> 
> Canada Line: 19 km
> - bored tunnel: 3-km
> - cut and cover tunnel: 6-km
> - elevated: 7-km
> - ground level: 2-km


Ah OK. Makes sense. Perdy trains though, they are gorgeous! :drool:


----------



## Songoten2554

wow what a construction sight why do Goverments avoid great and epic scale projects like this.

i wish Miami will get new Metrorail Routes and construction would be everywhere of the great Miami Metrorail expansions projects.

wow what a beautiful train maybe with the advertisements it will be even more beautiful but they look smaller then NYC Subway Rail Cars?


----------



## city_thing

I quite like the amount of elevated guide way there is on the Canada Line. It'll give you a great view when coming in from the airport, a nice introduction to the city. Elevated trains always give you some great, unexpected views as well. Suddenly a skyscraper will poke out of somewhere, or you'll go over a busy street and see the people below.


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## mr.x

*posted by officedweller*



New Global Air Photos dated Feb 24, 2008 - Marine Drive Station area, North Arm Bridge, elevated guideway, and tunnel to elevated transition :

http://www.globalairphotos.com/gallery/BC/Vancouver/South/2008/1


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## Daguy

Pictures I took today:

Broadway Station/Cambie Village




























Restoration of Cambie north of 16th is progressing quickly, with paving having reached 15th Ave. The tunnel has basically been completed between 12th and 15th, short of refilling and paving. 




























King Edward Station




























Marine Drive Station and South to North Arm Bridge


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## mr.x

In the future, I hope SkyTrain's ticket machines adopt a distance-traveled system....similar to Hong Kong's MTR. At the machines, the first thing you do is pick your station by pressing the corresponding station button on a map of the whole MTR system (great for visitors...or for anyone in general). Then the tv screen asks you what type of fare (adult, child, etc.), and you pick your choice on the touch screen. And then, it asks for your fare and after you do that your ticket pops out. The fare gates make sure that you exit at that station you chose.











This is f-ing hillarious....Sydney's ticket machines:


----------



## DKaz

I think the zone based system works just fine because we have buses and seabuses to deal with along with our trains. I'd like to be able to finish the trip on just one fare.

My main complaint is that it takes at least 2 hours to get from Aldergrove to downtown Vancouver, why is the transfer only 90 minutes long?


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## deasine

Force everyone to use smart cards for fast distance based fares =P


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## Ravman

February 26, 2008

Falcon continues to hijack Translink governance and muses about future fare hikes

VICTORIA -- Recent letters from B.C.'s Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon show he's overruling the authority of the Mayors' Council on TransLink while alluding to future transit fare hikes, New Democrat Transportation Critic Maurine Karagianis said today.

In a letter written to the Mayors' Council Chair Dianne Watts and TransLink Chair Dale Parker, Kevin Falcon threatened to cut off financial resources to the municipalities if the mayors didn't agree to toe his line on the hiring of a TransLink commissioner.

"The Mayors had legitimate concerns about the expense involved in the hiring of a commissioner - and they deserved to be heard out. But Minister Falcon made it clear it was going to be either his way or the highway," said Karagianis.

"When Falcon dismantled the original TransLink model and rammed through legislation to replace it, he made it clear the Mayors' Council was only going to have a nominal role in future decisions. By snubbing the mayors yet again, he's sending a strong message he won't tolerate any debate on decisions he has already made up his mind about."

In a letter to Mayor Watts, Kevin Falcon says unless a commissioner is hired, "...TransLink will not be able to access the incremental fuel tax revenue provided for in the legislation, nor to increase transit fares beyond the levels already authorized."

"It's alarming that Minister Falcon sees the TransLink commissioner as an endorser of fare hikes rather than a mechanism to keep fares in check and ensure fairness," Karagianis said. "At a time when Metro Vancouver transit users pay up to $10 for a single round-trip, Falcon has made it clear more fare hikes are quite likely."


----------



## mr.x

It's wrapping up guys...



*W. Pender Street at Granville Street Temporarily Closes to Motorists for Tunnel Boring Machine Removal*'

Notice No. 127 | February 27, 2008
CANADA LINE PUBLIC NOTICE

*The Tunnel Boring Machine (TBM) is scheduled to complete the second of two side-by-side tunnels within the next week,* which will result in the temporary closure of W. Pender Street between Howe Street and Seymour Street beginning at 12:01 a.m. on Monday, March 3, 2008. This temporary closure to motorists will occur for approximately 3 – 4 weeks while the TBM is removed and relocated from the exit shaft.

This activity and traffic pattern change will be in effect 24-hours a day seven days a week until the removal and relocation activity is completed. A noise exemption has been approved by the City of Vancouver, which may be viewed online at canadaline.ca.

Pedestrian traffic in the area will be maintained at all times, and access to and from businesses will remain open and accessible. Crew and traffic control personnel will also permit pedestrians to walk north and south in the intersection of W. Pender Street at Granville Street when deemed safe.

While W. Pender Street at Granville is temporarily closed to motorists, W. Hastings Street at Granville Street will re-open to two lanes eastbound and two lanes westbound. Once the TBM removal and relocation activity is completed, vehicle traffic on W. Hastings Street at Granville Street will be reduced to one lane in each direction while Waterfront Station construction continues.

Please note the intersections of Granville Street at Seymour Street and at Howe Street will remain open throughout this activity. Motorists wishing to travel around the active TBM area may use alternative routes such as W. Hastings Street, Dunsmuir Street, Seymour Street and Howe Street.


----------



## spongeg

DKaz said:


> I think the zone based system works just fine because we have buses and seabuses to deal with along with our trains. I'd like to be able to finish the trip on just one fare.
> 
> My main complaint is that it takes at least 2 hours to get from Aldergrove to downtown Vancouver, why is the transfer only 90 minutes long?


with distance based you would still make it to your destination on the same fare


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## ssiguy2

Did ya want a know why people rather takes their cars? ...........here's a horror story for ya that happened just today. 
Had to go into Vancouver from White Rock so took the #351. The bus came at 8:15 and got it right at White Rock centre, the main exchange. Well the express bus only had 4 seats left on it! By the next 2 stops people were already standing up and by the time it got to the ParknRide there was no room left..at all.
There were 9 people waiting there and only 1 person was able to get on. I saw 5 of them so livid so they walked over to one of their cars and were going to commute together on someone's car. 
Note this was at 8:15, well past rush-hour as anyone going downtown on that bus weren't going to get downtown til about 9:05. Well got stuck on #99 and didn't arrive downtown til 9:25. 
I felt so sorry for those who waited for the bus and were turned away and for those who had to stand for the entire 9:15 until a lot of people got off at Broadway. Remember that the #351 is the only bus route in the whole system that requires someone to stand for that length of time as it is the longest route in the system and VERY few get off until, at the minimum, 41st. 

That is a perfect example of why people don't want to take transit. Even when they do they can't get even get on the bus little alone, god forbid, a seat for their near one hour trip. 
On the way back at 2:00pm I mentioned it to the bus driver about that morning and he said he knows as does Translink that the #351 is overcapacity. 
The area has exploded to 85,000 and there are plans for another 30,000 just on the eastside of #99 which doesn't even include the huge population explosion taking in place on the SS/WR side of #99. 

He did give me some good news. Apparently they are receiving quite litterally this month and the #351 is at the very top of the charts for transit frequency increases. I hope it ATLEAST doubles frequency as even during the day and evening the buses are full. 

He said they are hoping to greatly increase frequency as early as April. I sure hope so as this is a stellar example of why people far prefer taking their cars. 
They should have similar freeway service from Guilford and Langley right downtown as it would be a fast service and comfortable one too. 

I do not beleive this bullshit that people in the burbs won't take transit. It's not a matter of won't but rather can't take transit due to the incredibly poor service. 

I hope they greatly improve the #351 and even more so when the RAV and then RapidBus starts in 2009. People out here are already pissed off enough with the RAV because they will have to transfer. It will actually take longer to get downtown than it does now to say nothing of having to transfer.


----------



## ssiguy2

^^ I meant to say that Translink will be receiving 9 new express buses this month.


----------



## deasine

I know unfortunately it's the case for many. Well come 2009 when the Canada Line opens, you guys will be seeing RapidBus instead of the Express Bus (I'm pretty sure articulated buses will help with the congestion but I sure hope it's as comfortable as the current highway coaches).


----------



## mr.x

> I do not beleive this bullshit that people in the burbs won't take transit. It's not a matter of won't but rather can't take transit due to the incredibly poor service.


I agree.

In 15-20 years or so, my vision is that we should build a light-rail/commuter rail type of service to White Rock/Tsawwassen along the Highway 99 median with it terminating at Bridgeport Station. Perhaps, a future extension line to South Surrey. The new service would use Bombardier Talent trains, similar to the Ottawa O-Train. Here's the plan:

Weekday frequency:
- 5:00 am to 6:30 am: 15-minutes
- 6:30 am to 10:00 am: 10-minutes
- 10:00 am to 3:30 pm: 15-minutes
- 3:30 pm to 7:00 pm: 10-minutes
- 7:00 pm to 10:00 pm: 15-minutes
- 10:00 pm to 1 am: 20-minutes

Saturday frequency:
- 5:00 am to 7:00 am: 20-minutes
- 7:00 am to 7:00 pm: 15-minutes
- 7:00 pm to 12 am: 20-minutes

Sunday/holiday frequency:
- 20-mins all day from 6:30 am to midnight

Train capacity:
- 300 passengers including standing

Max. speed:
- 120 kms/h


Of course, this would have to mean a serious beefing up of the Canada Line.


----------



## mr.x

> I hope they greatly improve the #351 and even more so when the RAV and then RapidBus starts in 2009. People out here are already pissed off enough with the RAV because they will have to transfer. It will actually take longer to get downtown than it does now to say nothing of having to transfer.


I think it will probably be better with the Canada Line. 

You need to take note that today's buses are often late because of the downtown loop. The Canada Line will be able to breeze through Downtown in 3-minutes. And it does takes 15-minutes to get from Downtown to Bridgeport. Without needing to go into Downtown or even Vancouver, service will be much more reliable and it also means less buses will be needed...meaning those buses could be used to run extra frequency between White Rock and Bridgeport.

That's 18-minutes from Bridgeport to Waterfront....surely, the existing express buses couldn't compete with that. Not to mention that a train at Bridgeport Station is bound for Downtown every 3-minutes. And chances are, passengers will be able to get a seat from the near-empty trains coming from the airport. Every second inbound train is from Sea Island.

Add all of that to the purchase of new buses for the service, and you have yourself a pretty good deal.


----------



## DKaz

I love the O-Train! I would love to see the DMUs operate in Vancouver if that's what it takes to get more distant communities connected to the local network. Richmond-Ladner-South Surrey-White Rock, Scott-Road-Langley-Abbotsford, that Coquitlam-Braid-Marine line I've heard pop up from time to time. 

I'm wonderring about North Shore and if it's possible to run rail there because of the steep hills. They had streetcars at one point didn't they? Wonder if it was something like San Francisco's cable cars.


----------



## Vancouverite

ssiguy2, I understand the frustration of your commute. However save for the length of the trip the story is really no different than what most people experience on most routes. The additional highway buses should help increase the frequency and capacity of these very long commuter routes, as will the connection to the Canada Line for all the reasons Mr.X raised. From ample experience I disagree that transferring is arduous, especially when connecting to SkyTrain. The passenger capacity per service hour metric will also improve significantly for the 351 by connecting to the Canada Line and this will allow an improved level of service at a similar operating cost, which allows Translink's limited resources to go even further. I do think that there should be a much larger order of commuter buses in the pipeline and in time the Canada Line should be upgraded and extended further south to improve capacity and eventually offer long distance commuters a closer boarding point.


----------



## mr.x

More updates from *Tafryn*, Feb. 26:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/


KING EDWARD STATION ENTRANCE




























The space in the left could be the elevator shaft.































Queen Elizabeth Park cut and cover






















OAKRIDGE-41ST AVENUE STATION



























































BRIGHOUSE-RICHMOND CITY CENTRE STATION













LANSDOWNE STATION






























Dual to single-track transition south of Lansdowne


----------



## spongeg

last time i checked white rock/south surrey was pretty expensive to live

no one is forcing these people to live there - obviously they have the money to live anywhere in the lower mainland and they chose to live so far from downtown


----------



## mr.x

*Canada Line tunnel borer finishes second tube*

Updated: Sun Mar. 02 2008 16:53:46
ctvbc.ca

It was a tiny chunk at first, then a larger one -- and then with a thundering crash, the tunnel boring machine broke through the dirt around the future site of a station for the new Canada Line Sunday morning.

After grinding under downtown Vancouver for much of the past year, the boring of two side-by-side tunnels for a leg of the massive transit project to link Vancouver, Richmond and the Vancouver International Airport is complete.

One by one, workers crawled out of the 440-tonne machine, to hugs, cheers and a celebration.

"It's like the birth of my son, maybe not a good comparison, but now the feeling is like that," said one man.

The project is on time and on budget, said B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell, who was on hand for the ceremony.

"This is on budget and more important, well, equally important, this is actually ahead of schedule," said Campbell.

"That is one big machine," said one spectator.

The completion of the second tunnel means that work can now begin on the Canada Line's Waterfront Station.

The government hopes to have the roads re-paved and downtown looking like normal in about a year.

Last April, the tunnel machine reached another important milestone when it broke ground north of Pender Street on Granville Street, completing the first 2.5-kilometer segment of track.

The 440-tonne machine was then taken apart transported back to its starting place in False Creek to start the second leg of the tunnel.

The Canada Line will eventually have 16 stations along over 19 km of track from downtown Vancouver to downtown Richmond, including a line that will run directly to the Vancouver International Airport.

Officials say the train's capacity will be equivalent to ten road lanes and will be an important new link to the region's transportation network.

The cut and cover portion of the track, which reaches from 2nd Avenue to 41st Avenue, is scheduled for completion in December 2008.

Tunnel-Boring Machine Facts:

* Length: 86 metres
* Diameter: 6.1 metres
* Weight: 440 tonnes
* Navigation system: GPS tracking system that is accurate within an inch
* Speed: 10 metres per day
* Depth of tunnel: Between 10 and 30 metres
* Tunnel internal diameter: 5.3 metres
* Tunnel support: About 20,000 steel-reinforced concrete lining segments over the 2.5 km of tunnel


----------



## Maelstrom

Congratulations to Vancouver on it's two new babies (the tunnels I mean...) 

Are there any renders of the underground stations? Or even the entrances to the underground stations?


----------



## alta-bc

mr.x said:


> Queen Elizabeth Park cut and cover


Why has this section not been finished yet? This is where construction first began.


----------



## mr.x

Maelstrom said:


> Congratulations to Vancouver on it's two new babies (the tunnels I mean...)
> 
> Are there any renders of the underground stations? Or even the entrances to the underground stations?


Visit the first page of this topic. All of the preliminary station renderings/diagrams/designs have been posted there.


----------



## Daguy

From Friday, Feb. 29:


----------



## deasine

From Global BC. They got a few shots of "open stations" but they didn't say which one is which. I'm sure some of you can tell by the pictures here:














































EDIT: Not sure what happened to the third and fourth pic. Sorry


----------



## mr.x

I got this image from the CTV report on the tunnel boring completion. *I believe it's our first ever look at the interior of Vancouver City Centre Station on the platform level:*


----------



## ssiguy2

Seeing Vancouver is, byfar and away, Canada's most expensive city couldn't you say that about everyone in Vancouver or BC for that matter? 
Actually seeing universities are the bastion of the middle/upper class I think we should cancel all routes to them too. What da yu think? 

That is not a logical argument.


----------



## deasine

There is an openhouse (I forgot to put this post on this forum =[) tomorrow (yes tomorrow) 4:00 PM - 8:00 PM at Lord Byng Secondary. There will be one more the following day at Riley Community Centre. This openhouse is about the new 33rd Avenue 29TH AVE STN/UBC Crosstown route.


----------



## mr.x

CTV report on the boring completion:









*CANADA LINE BORED TUNNELS COMPLETED AHEAD OF SCHEDULE*

March 2, 2008
Office of the Premier | Ministry of Transportation

VANCOUVER – A critical phase of Canada Line construction was completed today when the project’s 440-tonne tunnel boring machine (TBM) broke through the ground into the future site of Canada Line’s Waterfront Station. The breakthrough completes the second of two side-by-side bored tunnels from just south of False Creek to just north of Pender Street in downtown Vancouver.

“This breakthrough represents an important milestone for this project, which will significantly improve transit service for people throughout the Lower Mainland,” said Premier Gordon Campbell. “I want to congratulate all of the workers for their hard work and dedication, and for completing this critical phase of the Canada Line without a single lost-time injury or accident. This transit expansion will help to encourage compact urban development, get people out of their cars, and reduce greenhouse gas emissions, for the benefit of all British Columbians.”

“This successful project clearly demonstrates the benefits of public-private partnerships in large-scale transportation infrastructure projects,” said the Honourable Lawrence Cannon, Federal Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities. “It also reflects the Government of Canada's commitment to improving public transit capacity.” 

“This is a great moment to celebrate the vision, determination and skill of the workers, the project team, our region’s leaders and our Canada Line partners” said TransLink chair Dale Parker. “Every one of them can be proud of this amazing accomplishment, and with the Premier’s massive transit program, it's exciting to realize that we will be celebrating many more ‘breakthroughs’ for
Metro Vancouver’s transit system in the coming years.”

“Today’s breakthrough means we’re one step closer to providing a sustainable, efficient and convenient transportation option to YVR passengers and employees, “ said Larry Berg, president and CEO, Vancouver Airport Authority. “When the Canada Line is operational in 2009, YVR will join just a handful of international airports with a rapid transit link to and from the city centre and communities between. This is an important connection, particularly as we prepare to welcome the world for the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games.”

“The Canada Line and the planned UBC Line are key pieces in achieving our public transportation goals for Vancouver,” said Vancouver mayor Sam Sullivan. “Fast, accessible transit with easy connections is one of the most important ways we can do our part in reducing urban sprawl while lowering our ecological footprint.”

With the completion of the second (inbound) tunnel, the 2nd Avenue tunnel boring worksite will be transformed so that construction of the Canada Line station can proceed. While some station work has already taken place, the worksite has been used primarily for tunnel boring operations.

Approximately 20,000 pre-fabricated concrete tunnel lining segments have been used to construct the 5 kilometres of tunnel walls. The tunnel is 5.3 metres in internal diameter and varies in depth between 10 and 30 metres.


----------



## Neda Say

mr.x said:


> This is f-ing hillarious....Sydney's ticket machines:



This is not hillarious this is scary! This is a nightmare! The only thing worse would be having to read chinese instead of english!


----------



## nova9

The one in shanghai is kinda like a mix of the MTR and the Sydney one. You choose your starting and destination points but nothing is in English. I read Chinese but in China they use simplified characters and that was a nightmare. I would have taken a picture but the guards kept hounding me about my camera.


----------



## mr.x

*Final Results of UBC Transit Line Survey Released*
Respondents favour a tunnel, and want the City to help protect businesses & residents along the route during construction


















We promised to keep our Millennium Line Survey respondents up to date on developments surrounding this project. I'm pleased to announce that the final results are now available of the on-line survey of local residents and businesses regarding the completion of the Millennium Rapid Transit Line to central Broadway and UBC are now released to the public.

I want to thank everyone who took time from their busy schedules to complete the survey and give us their ideas. The public consultation process we have initiated in partnership with the City of Vancouver and Translink will give residents, businesses and community organizations the opportunity to help shape the future of their communities for generations to come.

More than 1850 surveys were completed at www.mayorsamsullivan.ca between November 3, 2007 and January 30, 2008. In January, the Province of British Columbia announced their plan to construct a $2.8 billion UBC Rapid Transit Line as part of their province-wide transit strategy.

More than 87% of our survey respondents say they - or a member of their family - would use a completed Millennium/UBC Line. Of those, 48% would no longer use the existing bus service and 28% would be able to leave their car at home. Other key results include:

- Most feel a tunnel system (37%) under Broadway (34%) is the best technology and route for Millennium/UBC Line. 22% favour an elevated Skytrain, 10.5% support streetcar or light rail and 27% want a combination.
- When asked to choose between the least expensive route and the least disruptive route, respondents choose the least disruptive (35% to 18.5%).
- More than 2/3 of respondents want to see the Millennium Line completed all the way to UBC. Only 26% support a phased project.
- An overwhelming amount of respondents (91%) want the municipal government to be an active participant in the project's formal environmental assessment to protect the interest of businesses & residents.
- More than 82% support the establishment of a Business Improvement Association along Broadway in concert with this project.

In addition to protecting the environment and increasing access to UBC, the survey respondents want to see the UBC Line completed to increase access to connecting transit routes, the Broadway business district and health services around VGH. We will consider these results very carefully as we go forward in the coming weeks.

Most of the survey respondents and their families live in Vancouver, Burnaby/New Westminster or UBC (83%). Their principle transit destination is Vancouver (51%) or UBC (33%). More than 77% travel along the Broadway corridor/Millennium Line now. 59% use the current service daily or several times a week.

Respondents used the 99 B-Line more than any other service (45%). Of those 99 B-line users that responded, 48% say they are "passed up" by buses at least 4 times a week.

On a related note, in January City Council supported a motion opposing "cut and cover" construction along the Broadway corridor to UBC. This motion will ensure commercial, congested and confined rights of way will not be impacted by UBC Line construction, and ensure that the City of Vancouver will be a planning partner in any rapid transit development. We definitely want to avoid a repeat of the experience on Cambie Street during Canada Line construction.


----------



## deasine

I can barely read traditional chinese but I hate reading simplified. Makes me go MADDD!

Anyway there was an open house and the onet oday at Riley Community centre is going to end in less than an hour. But there's no need in going because there isn't much to see...

If you want the images, informations, and few notes about the openhouse for #33 bus, refer to post #521 at SSP:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=3393448&postcount=521


----------



## deasine

_Unique perspective from the Third Floor of the London Building (single guidway section)_









_Unique perspective from the Third Floor of the London Building (single guidway section)_









_Unique perspective from the Third Floor of the London Building (single guidway section)_









_From No. 3 Road (single guidway section)_









_From Westminster Highway(single guidway section)_









_Notice the single guideway is pretty thin compared to the double tracked guidway_









_Shaky image of future Lansdowne Station from the 98 B-Line_









_Lansdowne Station from 98 B-Line at Lansdowne & No. 3_









_Lansdowne Station from 98 B-Line_









_Shaky image of Aberdeen Station from 98 B-Line_









_Double Guidway near Yoahan Centre from 98 B-Line_









_Double Guidway at Canadian Tire from 98 B-Line_









_Canada Line supplies near Sea Island Way (and beginning construction of No. 3 Rd)_









_Canada Line supplies near Sea Island Way (and beginning construction of No. 3 Rd)_



> _This work (above) is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 2.5 Canada License_



~~~~~~~


My spring break is going to begin in two weeks and I will take pictures of most of the line with my lumix camera =)


----------



## mr.x

Updates from *Tafryn*, March 4:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/



WATERFRONT STATION BORING MACHINE BREAKTHROUGH




















































































VANCOUVER CITY CENTRE STATION


----------



## Daguy

A few pics from Today:


Oakridge Station (now with Track!)






































Nearly completed road restoration just south of Oakridge:





























And I just couldn't resist checking on the guideway again:


----------



## officedweller

Nice, thanks!


----------



## deasine

Those are amazing photos =D


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## deasine

*[Vancouver Downtown Streetcar] First streetcar in 2010, and will be expanded/extended after that*

Credits to Officedweller for reporting first on SSP:

Latest City report:

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/...uments/tt3.pdf



> RECOMMENDATION
> 
> A. THAT Council approve the replacement of the single-track infrastructure
> between Granville Island and the 2nd Avenue Canada Line Station to allow
> continued operation of the Downtown Heritage Railway on the alignment at a
> cost of $8.5 million; source of funding to be:
> i. $500,000 as a funding contribution from CMHC Granville Island
> ii. $4,000,000 from the Southeast False Creek Project
> iii. $4,000,000 from existing Engineering Streets 2006-2008 Capital Budget;
> AND THAT the funding of $0.8 million to be approved in advance of the 2008
> Capital Budget, source of funding to be the 2006-2008 plebiscite approved
> borrowing authority.
> 
> *B. THAT Council instruct staff to seek opportunities to develop the Downtown
> Streetcar Demonstration Project for the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter
> Games using modern streetcar equipment and infrastructure.*
> 
> C. THAT Council approve up to $1.0M to safeguard the streetcar alignment during
> the 1st Avenue reconstruction for modern streetcar operations including cost
> sharing with Metro Vancouver for the cost premiums of relocating the regional
> forcemain between Columbia Street and Quebec Street; source of funding to
> be provided from the existing Engineering Streets 2006-2008 Capital Budget.


Source: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=3397090&postcount=15



*Previous Report *
http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/...uments/pe5.pdf

*Note below were only concepts put together, not official streetcars, stations, and detailed designs put together by the City of Vancouver*









_Granville Island Stop Rendering - Credits to Officedweller_









_Main Street Science World Stop Rendering (Connections with SkyTrain) - Credits to Officedweller_









_Chinatown Stop Rendering - Credits to Officedweller_









_Gastown Stop Rendering - Credits to Officedweller_









_Waterfront Station Rendering (Connections with SkyTrain, Canada Line, SeaBus, and West Coast Express) - Credits to Officedweller_


*Global BC TV's Report*
I will provide video link when they upload it.









_Tony Parsons
_
According to Global, there is now a change of plans with the line. Phase 0-A will be from Granville Island to Canada Line Olympic Village Station, then continue to Main Street Science World. After that, they will explore options for expansion, should there be a demand, and extend it to Stanley Park, Yaletown, etc.









_Phase 0-A Option_









_Picture of the SLUT haha in Seattle_









_Historic Streetcar still there_

They may use the old historic streetcars for special occasions (opening of 2010 ceremonies, during olympics, weekends, etc.).



> _This work (above) is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 2.5 Canada License_


----------



## deasine

Global TV Report:
http://canwest.a.mms.mavenapps.net/...alObject=98c1fdc0-6999-4397-92ba-a490510d9fc5

Global TV Newscasts>Global BC Newshour Mar 05>17:30 (you have to wait to load and drag the viewer to 17:30, they didn't divide it into a seperate report)

Notice reporter Linda Aylesworth said something wrong when she reports about route mapping.


----------



## urbanfan89

Are there indications this line will be integrated with Translink and the Canada Line? Or will it be run as a free service like the Portland Streetcar?


----------



## deasine

So far, it's a City of Vancouver project and not TransLink or Provincial Government (of course not the Federal Government). They might use their own fares, but then I think that is not allowed because all transportation systems within Metro Vancouver must be under TransLink. They may use TransLink fares or the streetcar might run for free.

The council will decide on this next tuesday.


----------



## mr.x

urbanfan89 said:


> Are there indications this line will be integrated with Translink and the Canada Line? Or will it be run as a free service like the Portland Streetcar?


The new streetcar network will have transfer stations to the Canada Line at Olympic Village Station and Waterfront Station as well as to SkyTrain at Main Street Station and Waterfront Station. It won't be free, you need to pay fares.

Likely, the system will be operated by Translink by funding for capital costs and annual operations will come from the City of Vancouver.


----------



## deasine

mr.x said:


> The new streetcar network will have transfer stations to the Canada Line at Olympic Village Station and Waterfront Station as well as to SkyTrain at Main Street Station and Waterfront Station. It won't be free, you need to pay fares.
> 
> Likely, the system will be operated by Translink by funding for capital costs and annual operations will come from the City of Vancouver.


sigh I guess I was dreaming -_-" I would love there to be a free downtown system/zone in vancouver and I think the Streetcar network would be the perfect one...


----------



## deasine

One more picture of another personal favourite (can't believe I forgot about this one)









_Porto Metro by Bombardier - Source: Paulo2004 on SCC/Flickr_


----------



## mr.x

*Train running on Canada Line no joke*
Testing commences today on new train

Lisa Smedman
Special to the Richmond News

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

If you saw a train running along the Canada Line on Sea Island this morning, it wasn't an April Fool's joke. Tuesday, April 1 was to mark the first test of the section of the Canada Line that runs out to the airport.

*The two-car train, with an operator on board, was to set out from the Canada Line operations and maintenance centre beside Bridgeport Station around 9 a.m. From there, it would cross to Sea Island and move west along the recently completed tracks at a walking pace, all the way to the YVR Airport Station. The trip was expected to take three hours, with plenty of stops.*

"It will be the slowest trip ever on this line," said Steve Crombie, vice-president of public affairs for InTransit BC, which has the contract to build and operate the Canada Line.

"If it isn't (the slowest trip) we're going to be in big trouble," he joked.

Once the line is up and running, a trip from the airport to Waterfront Station will take less than 26 minutes.

Today's test was to be the first anywhere along the Canada Line, which is being constructed from downtown Vancouver along Vancouver's Cambie Street to Richmond. Trains have not yet moved along any other portion of the line.

While the guideway (tracks) along the airport section of the Canada Line is more or less complete, work is still underway on the stations. Three stations on Sea Island -- one near Templeton Street, one near the Air Canada buildings on Grant McConachie Way, and the third at the airport itself -- won't be complete until the end of this year, said Crombie.

The Canada Line is scheduled to be in operation by Nov. 30, 2009. A total of 20 two-car trains will operate on the Canada Line.

The train cars, built by Hyundai Rotem Company of South Korea, are wider and longer than the SkyTrain cars currently in service on the Expo and Millennium rapid transit lines.

"They run on a different power system," said Crombie. "They're not interchangeable with SkyTrain trains."


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## ssiguy2

Longer and wider than a SkyTrain MK11 yes, but it can't be lengthed except a few stops to 50 metres from its current 40. A micro-micro subway. It probably already the worl'd smallest stations. The SkyTrain cars are smaller but the stations can handle two MK11 trains or the equivalent of 6 MK1. They also, when built, had the vision to make the stations easily extended to accomodate the equivalent of 9 MK1 cars fairly easily which they will begin doing right away. RAV has no such ability and it is going to cost a king ransom to do so some day and at some stations it may not be possible at all. 

Vancouver is building a rapid transit line for 15 years but they should be built to last and be effectively uses for quite literally 100 years. In 25 years when RAV is over-capacity I can truly see all the sububan routes from Ladner/Newton/Ladner/Twassen having too use the old Granville street again as RAV will simply not be able to accomodate the passenger loads.


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## bs_lover_boy

Hey!!! I got some quick pics of the test today.... continued using my cellphone, but at least you can see the train in action!!!!

Used Imageshack for the quick upload.

@ Bridgeport Station

























@ Middle Arm Bridge (very tiny, it's crossin' the bridge)









@ Sea Island Centre Station









@ Airport Terminus

















Let's hope somebody took some professional photos and upload it here later!!!


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## spongeg

neat

i wonder how many people arriving will think damn


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## mr.x

spongeg said:


> neat
> 
> i wonder how many people arriving will think damn


my impression would've been "what train? where???" then, somebody would hand me over a pair of binoculars and i'll be like "oohhhhh...".

Most people arriving would have thought that it was the airport's new monorail under construction, failing to realize it is actually a metro.

thx for the pics.


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## mr.x

Short video of the train moving out of the OMC today for testing:


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## allurban

It's alive! It's allllllllliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiivvvvvvvvvvvvvvvve!!! :banana:

Congratulations Vancouver and Richmond...you are the proud parents of a baby.......train. :cheers:

Cheers, m

ps. just teasing. It is great news and I'm happy to hear it


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## mr.x

Pictures taken today by *The Henry Man:*


BRIDGEPORT STATION is a major interchange station, where the line splits off into two to Sea Island and Richmond. IMO, the design of the station is a little bit dissapointing, there really isn't much...


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## officedweller

For the Global TV story on the train testing - go to 9:10 minute mark of the News Hour April 1 show under "Newscasts" (followed immediately by the Shangri-La story)

http://www.canada.com/globaltv/bc/video/index.html

The report incorrectly says the trains cannot be extended.


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## mr.x

From the Canada Line website:


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## mr.x

Updates by *Tafryn,* March 28 and April 2:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com




OLYMPIC VILLAGE STATION






















BROADWAY STATION























YVR AIRPORT STATION











































NORTH ARM BRIDGE


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## Songoten2554

wow awesome thanks Mr X

also the little baby train is running yay Vancouver i hope other cities in the united states will do this?

will it be possible?


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## en

Great photos

Theres something about the Bridgeport station that doesn't seem to look/feel right, it looks seriously gimped and that station is supposed to be a major intermodal transfer point


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## deasine

en said:


> Great photos
> 
> Theres something about the Bridgeport station that doesn't seem to look/feel right, it looks seriously gimped and that station is supposed to be a major intermodal transfer point


It's missing 80 m long platforms. Unfortunately, it's only half of 80m (basically half of our current SkyTrain platforms). It's not even built initially to the maximum length of 50 m. Anyway it is a major hub with a bus loop and a park and ride, which is all under construction.



> *Canada Line Open House*
> 
> OPEN HOUSE – Canada Line – Bus Integration JOIN US AT AN OPEN HOUSE highlighting the proposed changes to bus routes affected by the opening of the new Canada Line in 2009. Representatives from the Coast Mountain Bus Company, TransLink and Canada Line will be on hand to address any questions regarding this Bus Integration Plan. We encourage you to attend — your feedback is important to us.
> Saturday, April 5th, 2008 – 10:30am to 4:30pm
> Richmond Brighouse Library (Main Branch)
> 100-7700 Minoru Gate, Richmond
> Saturday, April 12th, 2008 – 11:00am to 5:00pm
> Steveston Community Centre
> 4111 Moncton St., Richmond
> Sunday, April 13th, 2008 – 12:00pm to 5:00pm
> Vancouver Public Library (Main Branch)
> 350 West Georgia, Vancouver
> Saturday, April 19th, 2008 – 9:30am to 5:00pm
> Oakridge Centre
> 650 West 41st Avenue, Vancouver
> Wednesday, April 23rd, 2008 – 2:00pm to 8:00pm
> Ladner Leisure Centre
> 4600 Clarence Taylor Way, Delta
> Thursday, April 24th, 2008 – 12:00pm to 8:00pm
> South Delta Recreation Centre
> 1720-56th Street, Delta
> Sunday, April 27th, 2008 – 12:00pm to 5:00pm
> Semiahmoo Mall
> 152nd and 16th Avenue, South Surrey
> Monday, May 5th, 2008 – 2:00pm to 8:00pm
> Vancouver International Airport
> 3211 Grant McConachie Way, Richmond


_Source: TransLink
_


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## mr.x

More updates by* Tafryn,* April 2:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/





WATERFRONT STATION - tunnel boring machine removal














































































VANCOUVER CITY CENTRE STATION


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## ssiguy2

I wasn't sure where to put this post as it has nothing to do with either RAV or MLine but rather Expo. 
Anyway. I know that the province is planning to $3.1 billion to triple current capacity on the Expo line by , at the latest, 2020. It will be done by a lot more MK11 trains and station extentions. That is great news and a good idea but the math has lost me a bit. 

Currently the Expo Line has 20 stations. All were made to be easily extended to accomodate 8 MK1 cars. 
Well let's say it costs $2 million to extend and upgrade the stations. Well lets give TONS of overcosts to come in at $ 5 million per station which would build gold plated stations. 
That's $100 million. 
Now lets say they decide to massively increase the SkyTrain fleet for tons of trains and then some. So 100 MK11 cars would be more than enough for 6 MK11 cars....capacity. 
So let's give another 50 MK11 so they can run at complete capacity all day/evening. That would easily include the new trains required for the Guilford extention of 6 km. 
Just to add ANOTHER 50 cars to make sure. Well that comes out at 200 MK11 cars. Translink will be swimming in them. They are about $3.5 to $4 million a piece but let's say they come out at $6 million {which they won't} each. 
We are at 200 MK11 cars at a widly expensive $6 million a piece. That comes out to $1.2 billion. They will need a new SkyTrain train warehouse. That would not come in at more than $150 for it plus another $ 25 million for an upgraded and expanded SkyTrain. Let's double it for fun so Translink will have a Taj Mahai. That comes in at $350 million. 
We are now at a total of $1.5 billion. 
Now 6 km of SkyTrain let's say comes in at $100 million /km. Again let's say $175 million because none of the line will be underground and allows enough park & ride to offer half of Langley a parking spot. That comes in at $1,500,000. That is wildly expensive when you consider the RAV which is 18 km most of which is underground and required a huge bridge over the Frazer.

So here we are at $3 billion but the government has budgeted $3.1 billion. 
My estimates are so incredibly out of wack that you could EASILY cut this number in half and then some. 

In reality, I couldn't see this whole project even coming in at $1.5 billion.

My point??? Where the hell is $3.1 billion figure coming from?


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## Ravman

you make a very very good point. Before i blast the falcon and his boss... i have a question about the system.... does the rail/ switches or what not need to be replaced....what about the cost of refurbishing the mk1 trains... how much is it per train.... there are probably other costs that the govt included... also the govt is trying to play the safe card to say that they ARE ON TIME AND ON BUDGET... i wouldnt be surprised if the figures were inflated to ensure a public outcry..... but lets wait and see...


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## deasine

God I couldn't understand a thing you said. Note underground stations at downtown are much more expensive to extend the platforms as you have to "mine it out." Anyway I have to leave but i'll update this post ocne I come back. Let's not blast anyone yet.


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## van-island

Let's all say it together now:

Debt servicing!


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## mr.x

Wow, did a drunk person type that post? Did you actually spell Fraser as "Frazer"???


First of all, you don't know what the project consists of. 

As we all know, the $3.1-billion figure for the Expo Line upgrade is part of the $14-billion transit plan. But that $3.1 billion figure does not include the purchase of additional cars. The $14-billion transit plan has an entire $1-billion set aside for the purchase of new rail cars, to be more specific $1-billion will buy about 300 cars, to be shared among the UBC extension and Evergreen Line projects.

The 6-km extension in Surrey will cost close to $800 to 900-million, if inflation is included. The underground stations in downtown are not easily extendable, but they are said to be extendable only because the track before/after the platforms are straight and allow a platform extension. Thus, Granville and Burrard will require some significant mining, and for each of those stations you're looking at at least $150-200 million. This includes station renovations.

Waterfront and Stadium will be significantly cheaper as there is space available already for an extension. For Waterfront, you have that corridor on the western end of the platform and for Stadium, you have the elevated guideway leading over to the GM Place side of the street. For the elevated stations, costs will decrease dramatically.


So, this is the likely cost of station upgrades (30-metre platform extensions, new roofs, new lighting, new tile floors, improved accessibility, new elevators, fare gates, CCTV, etc.):
- Waterfront: $80-million
- Burrard: $200-million
- Granville: $250-million
- Stadium: $60-million
- Main: $50-million
- Broadway: $50-million
- Nanaimo: $35-million
- 29th Ave: $25-million
- Joyce: $35-million
- Patterson: $30-million
- Metrotown: $50-million
- Royal Oak: $35-million
- Edmonds: $25-million
- 22nd St: $35-million
- New Westminster: $25-million (lower renovation cost, renovations in progress as part of Plaza 88 development)
- Columbia: $60-million
- Scott Road: $35-million
- Gateway: $35-million
- Surrey Central: $40-million
- King George: $40-million

That's $1.2-billion. Add another $1-billion for the Surrey extension and $500-million for structural enhancements to the guideway (more trains and cars = more weight and more passengers = greater strain on guideway) as well as possible track switch relocations. The $500-million figure also includes the cost of a major track switch for a future T-line extension down King George Highway to Newton. Perhaps you could also add in the cost for a second OMC somewhere along the line.

Add all of that up, and you come to about $2.7-billion. Don't forget a contingency fund for overruns, and you'll be at the government's figure of $3.1-billion.



You can't compare it with the Canada Line. One line is over two decades old, the other is brand new and uses a different type of technology.....nevermind technology, everything about it is different. Expanding and renovating the old costs a hell lot more than building new. Again, you made an apples vs. oranges comparison.


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## mr.x

> $ 250,000,000 for a station upgrade? You've got to be kidding?
> 
> The extions will be about 30 metres give or take. Do you realize you are suggesting that the Granville station extention $9,000,000/metre? Remember even the downtown stations were built for a relatively easy extention of stations to about 100 metres.


$250-million might be a bit much, but I have no doubt that it would cost a minimum of $100-million - station renovations included.





> First, ALL the stations were built with extentions designs built in them.


That's incorrect. All of the stations were built to have straight guideway segments before and after the station to allow a platform station. They never had "extension designs".





> They will be able to accomodate 8MK1 or 4MK11 cars. It would get very expensive if they tried to extend them further than that because theey were'nt built for that large an extention.


You mean 6-car Mark II.






> The MOST any of the stations would come in would be $5,000,000 which would probably Granville.


Sure.....in 1950 dollars.

$5-million???:lol::lol::lol: 

That's the most absurd figure I've ever heard of, and it clearly shows you know nothing about what you're talking about.

You have no idea how complex this process is. This is a deep mining operation. And $5-million does absolutely nothing, that's a complete joke. 

Even a elevated station platform extension would cost much more than $5-million. Add in the other renovations to the stations and the average elevated station renovation cost would be around $25-30 million.

A few years ago, Translink announced plans to renovate three Expo stations: Main, Broadway, and Metrotown. That project alone would have cost $15-million, without any platform extensions. At Broadway, $25-million - without platform extensions. For what they were proposing, there was no doubt that there would be cost overruns. And at Metrotown, $50-million: including a 10-metre platform extension, expanded concourse, new roof, new lighting, new floors, second pedestrian bridge, second entrance, widening of existing pedestrian bridge, and new bus loop.





> When they designed the extentions being extended that means all the venilation etc is already there. It really is just a matter of extending the platforms themselves.


Apparently, you still don't get how much mining costs. The matter of extending the platforms is what will cost a bundle.







> Remember the cost of land is which costs the most in buying a house. For even one million you could built a mega-monster house fully loaded to one million.


You're comparing this project with building a house?!!!!!:nuts::lol::nuts::lol: Apples and oranges.







> The ENTIRE 18km RAV most of which is tunnelled and a big bridge over the Fra*z*er came in at $2.2 billion.


Fra*z*er?hno:

The Canada Line is coming in at $2.05 billion, not $2.2 billion. And again, building new is completely different from expanding/improving the old. You cannot compare those two. You've made an apples vs. oranges comparison...yet again.


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## mr.x

DKaz said:


> Edmonton's $500 million 500 metre LRT extension from University to Health Sciences was a complex mining operation and that came out to $1 million a metre. According to those numbers, even tacking on 30% for rise in wages and construction materials, should not cost more than $40 million.


Apples vs. oranges. Edmonton's LRT extension was almost entirely tunnel bored, and that's where your $500-million or $1-million/metre figure came from.






Back to my previous post:

Broadway Station second entrance




















Metrotown Station












Main Street Station


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## ssiguy2

Translink has 34 MK11 cars coming in 2009. The total cost......$113. It was negotiated in 2006. Roughly $3,000,000 per MK11
With those extra cars lets add in another 150 MK11 cars at $4,000,000 to account for inflation. Remember these orders will probably be placed by 2010. That's $600,000,000 plus say $200,000,000 for upgraded/expnded warehouse for the SkyTrain cars. 
That's $800,000,000 plus a very liberal $1,000,000,000 for the Guilford extention and a whopping $500,000,000 for station extentions which is obscene but just for the sake of argument. With 20 stations that works out to an average of $25 million per station.
Even with these very liberal estimates we are still in at $2.5 billion. 

Again where is this $3.1 billion coming from?


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## DKaz

I was working at ______ when I snooped into my structural department's Main Street Science World Station project. The main platform length will still only be 80m after the project is complete, there will be some blocked off platform under the Vancity building but not enough. Seems rather short sighted that they would not allow for the extension to 105m right away, they'd have to rip apart the new East Station house later on otherwise.

The LRT was dealing with complex soil conditions, having to go under tight spaces, etc. I find it hard to believe it'd cost that much as well to extend the two stations. I'll bid... $120mil and $80mil for Granville and Burrard respectively Bob, and not a penny more. 

The automation software needs to be overhauled for the load of new trains and extension. Perhaps they want to refurbish the entire MK-I fleet. Anyone seen car 035 lately? Not as snazzy as 147-148 but pretty nice.

I hope, I hope, I really hope they build a parallel express track from New West to Stadium Station, with stops only at Metrotown and Broadway. How's that for dreaming. 

I wonder how much the new Granville entrance cost. Did they use the existing refuge/emergency exit shaft?


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## mr.x

ssiguy2 said:


> Translink has 34 MK11 cars coming in 2009. The total cost......$113. It was negotiated in 2006. Roughly $3,000,000 per MK11
> With those extra cars lets add in another 150 MK11 cars at $4,000,000 to account for inflation. Remember these orders will probably be placed by 2010. That's $600,000,000 plus say $200,000,000 for upgraded/expnded warehouse for the SkyTrain cars.
> That's $800,000,000 plus a very liberal $1,000,000,000 for the Guilford extention and a whopping $500,000,000 for station extentions which is obscene but just for the sake of argument. With 20 stations that works out to an average of $25 million per station.
> Even with these very liberal estimates we are still in at $2.5 billion.
> 
> Again where is this $3.1 billion coming from?


Again, the $3.1-billion cost does not cover the purchase of additional train cars. The $14-billion transit plan sets aside $1-billion to purchase cars to share among the UBC and Surrey extensions, and the Evergreen Line.


2020 TRANSIT PLAN:
- $2-billion for Canada Line
- $1.4-billion for Evergreen Line
- $2.8-billion for Millennium Line extension to UBC
- $3.1-billion for Expo Line improvements and Surrey extension
*- $1-billion for new rail cars*
- $1.2-billion for rapid bus BC
- $1.6-billion for 1,500 new buses


The $3.1-billion figure, as well as the other transit line projects, probably accounts for a 10% contingency fund just like the Gateway Project. The Gateway Project will cost $2.7-billion, but it has a $300-million contingency.


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## mr.x

DKaz said:


> The LRT was dealing with complex soil conditions, having to go under tight spaces, etc. I find it hard to believe it'd cost that much as well to extend the two stations. I'll bid... $120mil and $80mil for Granville and Burrard respectively Bob, and not a penny more.


$120 million and $80 million for Granville and Burrard.....fine, deal.:cheers:





> The automation software needs to be overhauled for the load of new trains and extension. Perhaps they want to refurbish the entire MK-I fleet.


Good point.





> I hope, I hope, I really hope they build a parallel express track from New West to Stadium Station, with stops only at Metrotown and Broadway. How's that for dreaming.


lol, i'd love that too....I'm guessing westbound in the morning rush hour and eastbound in the evening rush hour.






> I wonder how much the new Granville entrance cost. Did they use the existing refuge/emergency exit shaft?


I believe it was around $30-million, but it would've cost a lot more if the entrance wasn't being built on a building under construction. It saved a lot of money in excavation costs.....not to mention that the new building required an excavation hole anyway.


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## ssiguy2

You mean to tell me that the $3.1 billion WITHOUT the need to purchase the trains having to be budgeted in?? 

The Guilford Ext is 6km half of the Evergreen Line. Seeing its 12km using SkyTrain-like tech is going to cost $1.4, half that figure is $700,000,000. Remember some of the Evergreen will require tunnelling which Guilford won't. Seeing the trains would be purchased under other funding program which includes storage areas. 

Well lets say they really **** up and go way overboard on the costs and the Guilford Ext costs $1 billion, what the hell is this other $2.1 billion? 
They are going to be tunneling all the way to UBC for $2.8 billion annd you guys only think its going to cost $2billion for a few station upgrades/ext?


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## deasine

Oh great now we are questioning on new infrastructure. Note that the 6km line presented in the Provincial Transportation Plan in January is done wrong. In fact I think the route is a little more than that.

And are we forgetting that there will be a need in upgrading the existing OMC? We do need a new future satellite OMC and possible locations are in Surrey and Port Moody/Coquitlam.


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## ssiguy2

Just to put things into perspective..........the EXPO has 20 stations. Well Edmonton is hoping to build a 20-21k seat new arena downtown for the Oilers. They are estimating $300 to $400 million. Lets say $400,000,000 where wage rates are higher than Vancouver. 
Do you actually think it will cost more than that to extend some stations? If you do then I thank god none of you are in the planning dept.


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## deasine

Please if you are to bring comparisons don't bring up stadiums. Like what mr. x says: apples vs. oranges


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## mr.x

ssiguy2 said:


> You mean to tell me that the $3.1 billion WITHOUT the need to purchase the trains having to be budgeted in??


Yes, I've only mentioned it a dozen times....




> The Guilford Ext is 6km half of the Evergreen Line. Seeing its 12km using SkyTrain-like tech is going to cost $1.4, half that figure is $700,000,000. Remember some of the Evergreen will require tunnelling which Guilford won't. Seeing the trains would be purchased under other funding program which includes storage areas.


It's all about inflation.

10 years ago, the PMC/Evergreen SkyTrain was projected to cost $600-700 million. Soon after, even LRT cost more than the original NDP-proposed PMC SkyTrain budget.

Did you just calculate the Surrey extension cost by splitting the Evergreen cost in two simply because the Surrey extension is half the length of Evergreen????? :bash: .....hate to tell you that it doesn't work that way.





> Well lets say they really **** up and go way overboard on the costs and the Guilford Ext costs $1 billion, what the hell is this other $2.1 billion?
> They are going to be tunneling all the way to UBC for $2.8 billion annd you guys only think its going to cost $2billion for a few station upgrades/ext?


Construction on the Surrey extension probably wouldn't start until 2015 at the earliest. Add in inflation between 2008 to 2015 and you're talking about $800-million for the 6-km Surrey extension.

The other few billion will go towards station upgrades and other infrastructural improvements to the Expo SkyTrain line, things that we will not know about until the province announces its official plans. The cost of station renovations and platform extensions will exceed beyond $1-billion.




Do us all a favour and just shut it, you don't know what you're talking about. To even suggest the downtown station renovations would cost $5-million is beyond ridiculous.


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## mr.x

ssiguy2 said:


> Just to put things into perspective..........the EXPO has 20 stations. Well Edmonton is hoping to build a 20-21k seat new arena downtown for the Oilers. They are estimating $300 to $400 million. Lets say $400,000,000 where wage rates are higher than Vancouver.
> Do you actually think it will cost more than that to extend some stations? If you do then I thank god none of you are in the planning dept.


Did you actually just compare a stadium budget to the cost of renovating a rapid transit line???:lol::lol::lol:

Are you really that clueless????


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## dleung

mr.x said:


>



Nice. Very Morphosis-style


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## deasine

Actually talking about that, the Evergreen Line doesn't have to use SkyTrain technology but instead ALRT. The details of that aren't very clear, but many have speculated that the SkyTrain system does not need to be all SkyTrains by Bombardier. It is possible to have automated conventional rail trains using third rail power (rather than the current linear motor) and run the trains throughout the line. This might be a reason why the Evergreen Line is a little cheaper.

Vancouverite/SFUVancouver is the first member of SSP to bring up this topic.


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## mr.x

deasine said:


> Actually talking about that, the Evergreen Line doesn't have to use SkyTrain technology but instead ALRT. The details of that aren't very clear, but many have speculated that the SkyTrain system does not need to be all SkyTrains by Bombardier. It is possible to have automated conventional rail trains using third rail power (rather than the current linear motor) and run the trains throughout the line. This might be a reason why the Evergreen Line is a little cheaper.


Actually, ALRT is SkyTrain. "ALRT" is Bombardier's brand name for its linear propulsion technology, which we call SkyTrain (named owned by BC Transit).

But you're right, the province did announce "SkyTrain or 'ALRT-like' technology".....which puzzles me, as they also mentioned that there would be no transfer at Lougheed.


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## Ravman

once again like i have mentioned previously, there are switches and a third platform already installed at Lougheed station! It would be shame if those are not put to use...


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## Ravman

We will just have to wait and see what the Falcon does....


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## ssiguy2

I think Rotem, the same guys who are supplying our cars for the Canada Line, also produce ALRT cars but Translink would be nuts not to just Bomabardier SkyTrain. It is logical so I'm betting Translink won't do it. 

I heard something about charching extra on the line to YVR? Is that true?. This keeps going from bad to worse. 

Also, I took the bull by the horns and contacted Min or Transoportation about the new gov't transit initiatives and especially the Expo ext/upgrades. I asked him about where this $3.1 billion for the Expo would be going. He said they are still trying to work thru the numbers about where all the funds would be going. He said there is obviously going to be a lot of extra funds for Expo because he said all the funds would not be going towards Expo but possibley extending the stations on the MLine as well. 

He said, laughingly, that NONE of the station upgrades would come even close to $25 million a piece and if any do he wants to start bidding on some so he could retire. 
He said another option was, due to the Expo Line upgrades/extentions would not even come in at HALF the $3.1 allocated, is that the province could possibly pay Translink's and the city's share. In other word's they wouldn't need their contribution do the ext/upgrades on Expo. He said they will come in even cheaper than originally forcast due to Translink has already started to renew/expand Main & Metrotown. Two less to do on the original Expo line before the line waas extended to Surrey. 

He said, realistically, that upgrading and extentions on the current SkyTrain will be somewhere between $200-$250 million for all the remaining 18 stations. 
He stated the most expensive renos will be the Stad/Gran/Thur/Colum/Broad/Nuwest. 

He said will be quite easy and relatively inexpensive suchas all the stations in Surrey, Edmonds, and 29th. 

I guess I wasn't as big a "nutcase" as some had indicated when it comes to station costs.



Again, he stated nothing is yet been decided as it only been 8 weeks since the province anounced the iniatives


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## DKaz

From the blueprints I've seen, Main Street is only getting upgraded, not extended. Hopefully they've revised Main Street for the extended platform but too bad I don't have access to the blueprints anymore lol.


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## deasine

DKaz said:


> From the blueprints I've seen, Main Street is only getting upgraded, not extended. Hopefully they've revised Main Street for the extended platform but too bad I don't have access to the blueprints anymore lol.


Precisely, though we aren't really sure how much longer. Part of Main Street station will have an actual new building (East Entrance/Exit). It is an oval entrance with escalators leading to the ticket concourse, then escalators up to the platform.

@ssiguy2

I wonder if Waterfront will be recieving a major facelift too, not in the form of just the platforms but the entire station. There are long term plans for a new hub:









_Plans for Waterfront Station and the surrounding area ~ Source: SFUVancouver/Vancouverite_

If I don't remember wrong, Officedweller mentioned something back at SSP where Stadium station's platform will be extended southeast past Expo Blvd and building a new entrance on that side of the street. This entrance may have an elevator depending [which is needed long time ago].

New Westminster station is being incorporated with that apartment building with Azure @ Plaza 88.



> SkyTrain shopping mall set for New Westminster
> Riders will get off trains just a few feet from stores
> Bruce Constantineau , Vancouver Sun
> Published: Thursday, October 27, 2005
> The New Westminster SkyTrain station will become fully integrated with a $60-million, 170,000 square-foot retail project to be developed over the next three years, city and SkyTrain officials announced Wednesday.
> 
> The development is believed to be the first in North America to fully integrate an elevated transit system with a major shopping and housing complex. The station platform is expected to be widened to accommodate SkyTrain riders who will get off and walk to shops before resuming their travel.
> 
> The retail project will be part of a $250-million development -- Azure at Plaza 88 -- that will see four residential towers with a total of 800 condominiums built on a 2.1-hectare site at 8th Street and Columbia, across from the New Westminster Quay.
> 
> "This is the type of project that will bring New Westminster to where it should be and truly revitalize the downtown," New Westminster Mayor Wayne Wright said in an interview.
> 
> The retail development will be anchored by a 37,500-square-foot grocery store, a 17,500-square-foot drugstore and an 11,600-square-foot liquor store. Project developer Michael Degelder said they are in the final stages of negotiations with Save-On-Foods to occupy the grocery space.
> 
> SkyTrain chief executive officer Doug Kelsey said SkyTrain won't get any revenue from the New Westminster retail development because it's a private project but noted the transit system is pursuing retail projects at other stations on land it owns so it can gain additional revenues. He said the Lougheed Town Centre station is a likely candidate for future retail development.
> 
> "Developments like this move a station from being just a train station into a true community station, with services that make sense for riders on their travels," Kelsey said.
> 
> He said criminal activity that takes place around SkyTrain stations such as New Westminster station can be driven away by developments such as Plaza 88 that encourage people to congregate in public places.
> 
> "Where there are people, there is typically less crime," Kelsey said. "You end up moving the people that don't belong there and they go elsewhere. We have seen that in other rejuvenations."
> 
> He noted the retail project will use features such as open spaces and extra lighting to deter criminal activity.
> 
> "This particular station has been very long on my hit list of places that need to be rejuvenated," Kelsey said. "We want to do anything we can to reduce the incidence of crime. Our vision is for SkyTrain to be a place where you go to be safe."
> 
> The SkyTrain passenger-level shopping area will feature 120,000 square feet of retail space while another 50,000 square feet of space will be built on the lower level under the SkyTrain guideway.
> 
> - - -
> 
> A TRANSPORTATION REFORMATION
> 
> New Westminster is planning to transform part of its downtown through a "transit village" concept. Here are a few details of the project, due to roll out over the next three years:
> 
> - A $250-million, four-tower housing development with 800 condominiums to be built on 5.3 acres.
> 
> - New Westminster's SkyTrain station will become the heart of a $60-million retail project, to include:
> 
> - 170,000-square-foot retail centre, with
> 
> - 37,500-square-foot grocery store.
> 
> - 17,500-square-foot drug store.
> 
> - 11,600-square-foot liquor store.


_Source: Vancouver Sun ~ CanWest Media_


----------



## mr.x

Main Street Station - proposed floor plan


----------



## deasine

Hmmm which way would they be extending the platforms then? I would guess West up to the #1. It would seem very stupid to rebuilt the new entrance, elevator, and escalator so that they can extend the platforms a few years later.


I just realized the new entrance isn't "fare gateable"


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## DKaz

Do you see those roof supporting columns? Column to column is 10m which means that the platform is 80m. (I measured it in AutoCAD). 

The elevator shafts for the VanCity building is in the way going west. Perhaps another 12m to play with but we need 22m. If anything they're shortening the platform since right now part of the platform is used as a ticketting area. I really really hope they revised the drawings since the announcement. 

On the West side, fare gates can go on grid line 6 and also exit only fare gates for the stairs. On the East side, fare gates would go on grid line A. The only problem is the Elevators, on both sides it's a free for all. Maybe they'd start introducing... you must have a valid fare to call the elevator. lol. 

Broadway doesn't look like it's getting an extension but at least they left the south park free for future extension. Metrotown is getting an extension but for a different reason... so they can stagger the trains to give each train "more platform width"


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## mr.x

The planned Broadway Station renovations can be summarized as follows:

1) Station entrance on Broadway
- Remove existing 2 coiling grilles,
- Remove elevator,
- Relocate eletrical riser next to new elevator
- Install 2 new coiling grilles,
- Create a CRU

2) Centre stairs
- Reduce the width of the stairs, and install a new escalator

3) Centre of the station
- Accommodate the exist from Safeway and provide connection between Safeway and Station fire alarm systems
- Extend the concourse space by enclosing the currently exterior space to the south of the station
- Extend the concourse space by replacing west wall by glazing,
- Create 2 CRU's

4) South of the Station
- Remove existing emergency stairs,
- Create new stairs,
- Install a new elevator,
- Install 2 new coiling grilles.

5) General improvements
- improved lighting, 
- improved signage/wayfinding,
- new flooring,
- replacing metal mesh screens with glass panels.

6) Other
- expanded passarelle between Broadway and Commercial Drive Stations
- expanded entry to Commercial Drive Station from Commercial Drive 
- integration of adjacent paved area and implementation of customer amenities.

7) Cost
- $25 million



New South Entrance











Concourse level












Platform level


----------



## deasine

_








Canada Line Construction from No.3 & Westminster ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/13/2008









Canada Line Construction from No.3 & Westminster ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/13/2008









Canada Line Construction from No.3 & Ackroyd ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/13/2008









Canada Line Construction from No.3 & Ackroyd [Notice the ugly butt end] ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/13/2008









Canada Line Construction from No.3 & Lansdowne ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/13/2008









Canada Line Construction: Lansdowne Station ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/13/2008









Canada Line Construction: Lansdowne Station ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/13/2008









Canada Line Construction: Lansdowne Station ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/13/2008









Canada Line Construction: Lansdowne Station ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/13/2008









Canada Line Construction: Lansdowne Station ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/13/2008

_


> _This work (above) is licensed under a Creative Commons Licence._


~~~~

*Canada Line Bus Integration Open House*
Not much - most if it we know already, but some points that need attention: Queue Jumper for Bridgeport Exit before Oak Street Bridge & No Information on White Rock RapidBus [I didn't have time to ask them about this]
_









General Panel ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/13/2008









Times Panel ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/13/2008









South of Fraser Panel ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/13/2008









Vancouver Panel ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/13/2008









Vancouver Panel ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/13/2008









Richmond Panel ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/13/2008

_


> _This work (above) is licensed under a Creative Commons Licence._


----------



## mr.x

*SkyTrains to be built in Mexico*

Frank Luba, The Province
Published: Sunday, April 13, 2008

New SkyTrain cars announced as part of a $150-million expansion of the TransLink fleet will be built by Canadian company Bombardier -- in Mexico.

The fleet expansion, aided by $47 million in provincial money, was decided on at the March 28 meeting of the new professional TransLink board held behind closed doors. Details were not revealed until the official announcement Friday.

The money will expand the current fleet of approximately 1,300 conventional buses and community shuttles by 103 "green" buses.

The purchase includes 20 articulated, zero-emission electric trolleys; 11 articulated, diesel-electric hybrid buses; and 72 standard-size diesel-electric coaches that burn 20-per-cent cleaner, according to TransLink, than its "clean" diesel or compressed natural gas buses.

Also part of the fleet expansion are 14 additional SkyTrain cars that will be in service by February 2010.

Already on order are 34 of the Mark II Bombardier cars. The additional cars will bump the fleet to 258 cars.

Doug Kelsey, who runs TransLink's rapid-transit division, said customers won't notice a difference between the previous Mark II vehicles built in a now-closed facility in Burnaby and the new Mexican Mark II. *But there will be updates, like a newer linear-induction propulsion system.*

Because there are so few SkyTrain systems, Bombardier only produces the cars when there is an order.

"It's highly expensive to shut it down and then start it up," said Kelsey of producing the cars, which cost about $3 million each.

"You want to keep the production run going," he said.

Kelsey explained that getting more trains will allow TransLink to run more four-car trains to address the congestion that plagues peak hours.

The combination of bus and SkyTrain expansion fits within the province's $14-billion provincial transit plan, according to Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon. "This is our first instalment of our new commitments in the provincial transit plan," said Falcon.

Despite the transit boost, the provincial government remains under fire from opponents of the Gateway Program to twin the Port Mann Bridge and widen the Trans-Canada Highway.

Those opponents see expansion of roads as a contradiction when the push is on to reduce vehicle traffic and the resulting emissions.

A demonstration against Gateway will be held at 10:30 a.m. tomorrow outside Canada Place.

[email protected]


----------



## Ravman

mr.x said:


> *SkyTrains to be built in Mexico*
> the March 28 meeting of the new professional TransLink board held behind closed doors. Details were not revealed until the official announcement Friday.
> 
> Doug Kelsey, who runs TransLink's rapid-transit division, said customers won't notice a difference between the previous Mark II vehicles built in a now-closed facility in Burnaby and the new Mexican Mark II. But there will be updates, like a newer linear-induction propulsion system.
> 
> Because there are so few SkyTrain systems, Bombardier only produces the cars when there is an order.
> 
> "It's highly expensive to shut it down and then start it up," said Kelsey of producing the cars, which cost about $3 million each.
> 
> "You want to keep the production run going," he said.



I like how the new board is "professional"... so elected politicans are not professional enough to spend our taxdollars????

Also it is sad to see the burnaby facility no longer in operation though it hasnt been for some time now but still....


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## deasine

Is there enough room for the burnaby facility to even build these anymore? I think they are currently expanding their facilities, but that would most likely be the last expansion.


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## lightrail

Ravman said:


> I like how the new board is "professional"... so elected politicans are not professional enough to spend our taxdollars????
> 
> Also it is sad to see the burnaby facility no longer in operation though it hasnt been for some time now but still....


I won't notice the difference - I won't notice "Salida" on the doors, or the announcements "Stand back from the doors, let the gringos off first"


----------



## mr.x

deasine said:


> Is there enough room for the burnaby facility to even build these anymore? I think they are currently expanding their facilities, but that would most likely be the last expansion.


Last I checked, the Burnaby facility is now a carpet depot. Considering that the Burnaby facility built 60+ Mark II cars, it definitely had the capacity for the recent orders.


Personally, I don't care where they are built....as long as we get a bang for every buck we ditch out. (building those ferries in Germany was a great decision) And it's not like the Mexican workers are being abused.....sure, they might get paid less than a Canadian Bombardier worker but at the same time I'm sure Bombardier, being a Canadian company subsidized by the federal gov't, adheres to some Canadian standards to an extent.


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## Ravman

i thought it was a law firm or something.... but creating jobs for british columbians/ canadians is always a good thing...


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## deasine

I have another exciting update on the Canada Line construction, a milestone [well not really].

*Lansdowne Station*

_








Canada Line Construction of Lansdowne Station from Lansdowne & No. 3 ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/16/2008
_

*Aberdeen Station ~ Northbound Station Frame Complete*_









Canada Line Construction of Aberdeen Station from Cambie & No. 3 ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/16/2008









Canada Line Construction of Aberdeen Station from Cambie & No. 3 ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/16/2008









Canada Line Construction of Aberdeen Station from Cambie & No. 3 ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/16/2008









Canada Line Construction of Aberdeen Station from Cambie & No. 3 ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/16/2008









Canada Line Construction of Aberdeen Station from Cambie & No. 3 ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/16/2008









Canada Line Construction of Aberdeen Station from Cambie & No. 3 ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/16/2008









Canada Line Construction of Aberdeen Station from Cambie & No. 3 ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/16/2008









Canada Line Construction of Aberdeen Station from Cambie & No. 3 ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/16/2008

_*YVR*_









Canada Line Construction ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/16/2008









Canada Line Construction of YVR - Airpot from Parking Lot ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/16/2008\









Canada Line Construction of YVR - Airpot from Parking Lot ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/16/2008









Canada Line Construction of YVR - Airpot from Parking Lot ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/16/2008









Canada Line Construction of YVR - Airpot from Parking Lot ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/16/2008









Canada Line Construction of YVR - Airpot from Parking Lot ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/16/2008









Canada Line Construction from 98 B-Line Bus ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/16/2008_

*The following shots are taken at an awkward angle from the bus, sorry [some had to be digitally zoomed]*_









Canada Line Construction of Templeton Station from the 98 B-Line Bus ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/16/2008









Canada Line Construction of Templeton Station from the 98 B-Line Bus ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/16/2008









Canada Line Construction of Templeton Station from the 98 B-Line Bus ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/16/2008









Canada Line Construction of Templeton Station from the 98 B-Line Bus ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/16/2008









Canada Line Construction of Templeton Station from the 98 B-Line Bus ~ Picture by Me ~ Photo compressed with Facebook ~ 04/16/2008

_


> _This work (above) is licensed under a Creative Commons Licence._


----------



## Ravman

April 17, 2008
Karagianis tables bill to end secrecy and indifference at Translink
VICTORIA -- It’s time the Campbell government acted to ensure Translink meetings are open to the public so decisions impacting average families aren’t made in secret and without their input, New Democrat transportation critic Maurine Karagianis said today.

“In the last few months, we have seen an unprecedented lack of accountability and a growing secrecy around TransLink’s functions. The Campbell government scoffs at these concerns and does nothing,” said Karagianis, the MLA for Esquimalt - Metchosin.

“Instead of acting in the interest of the taxpayers, the B.C Liberals have appointed a board of directors that keeps hitting average families in the pocketbook through fare increases and tax hikes. The Campbell government failed to raise an objection when TransLink took these drastic steps without any consultation or transparency,” Karagianis said.

Karagianis’ bill tabled today, and entitled the TransLink Openness Act, 2008, proposes an amendment to the South Coast British Columbia Transportation Act. Earlier this year, TransLink made an arbitrary decision that its meetings will no longer be open to the public. Instead, the current meetings have been assigned a small amount of time to allow “feedback” from pre-registered speakers with the bulk of the proceedings taking place in camera.

“Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon didn’t object when the TransLink board members gave themselves a 500 per cent pay increase just weeks after the Metro Vancouver transit riders were hit with the highest fares in the country. By voting in favour of the TransLink Openness Act, 2008, Falcon and his colleagues have a chance to ensure this culture of secrecy and a lack of accountability doesn’t further hurt ordinary people,” said Karagianis.


----------



## deasine

> *Evergreen line announcement to come tomorrow*
> Coquitlam/CKNW(AM980)
> 
> 4/17/2008
> 
> It's a decision Coquitlam residents have been waiting a long time to hear...and tomorrow they'll find out which route the Evergreen transit line will take through their community.
> 
> Transportation minister Kevin Falcon has confirmed he will announce the decision on Friday.
> 
> "Yes, I intend to be discussing the route for the Evergreen line, that will be part of the discussion I’ll be having in the communities."
> 
> Both proposed routes would cost about 1.4 billion dollars, but the northwest route through “Burquitlam” would be a bit quicker than the southeast route through Maillardville.
> 
> Falcon will speak at the tri-cities chamber of commerce luncheon


_Source: CKNW_

Expected to be announced at the tri-cities lucheon thingy around noon/afternoon *TODAY*.


----------



## deasine

North West Route Confirmed now:
http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/pdf/EvergreenLine/Evergreen_Line_alignment.pdf



> April 18, 2008
> Northwest route decided for Evergreen Line
> 
> COQUITLAM – Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon and TransLink Chair Dale Parker announced today that the Evergreen Rapid Transit Line will be constructed on the Northwest route, connecting Lougheed Town Centre with Coquitlam Town Centre through Port Moody.
> “On February 1, when we joined with TransLink to release the Evergreen Line Business Case, we asked the mayors and councils in the Northeast sector for their feedback on the outlined route options for the Evergreen Line,” said Minister Falcon. “Municipal councils in Port Moody, Port Coquitlam, Coquitlam, Burnaby, New Westminster and Belcarra have all voiced their support for the Northwest route.”
> 
> “We certainly heard loud and clear from the very communities which the Evergreen Line is meant to serve,” said Parker. “The Northwest corridor has not only technical advantages, but also widespread public and local government support. We now need to roll up our sleeves and get the project built.”
> 
> As announced in February, the Evergreen Line will use advanced light rapid transit (ALRT), technology, which is automated and separated from traffic.
> 
> “Now that we have decided on routing and technology for the Evergreen Line, we can proceed with project development and engineering to keep on track for planned 2014 completion,” said Falcon. “This important stage will include detailed procurement analysis and further environmental assessment including broad public consultation.”
> 
> One of the first orders of business will be the location and establishment of an Evergreen Line Project office in the Coquitlam area. The project partners will work from this new office to proceed with project development, preliminary design and detailed design, all entailing extensive, meaningful consultation with neighbourhood residents, businesses, and other stakeholders.
> 
> The Evergreen Line is an estimated $1.4 billion project. Through its recent Transit Plan, the BC Government has committed to investing $410 million in the project, and TransLink has committed $400 million to date to the Evergreen Line. Through the Public Transit Capital Trust 2008, the Government of Canada has provided $67 million to the Province for public transit infrastructure, and these funds will be dedicated to the Evergreen Line.


_Source: TransLink_

Backgrounder: http://translink.bc.ca/files/pdf/EvergreenLine/Evergreen_Line_-_Backgrounder.pdf
Business Case: http://translink.bc.ca/files/pdf/Ev...e_Executive_Summary_February_1_2008_FINAL.pdf


----------



## van-island

For someone not up to speed, what are the relative advantages of each route?


----------



## D J M K

^^
van-island

it is my understanding that although both are the same price, the NW route will be faster, cheaper to run, and have better benifit to cost ratios.

however, the SW route is totally undeveloped and therefore has the highest future potential. i believe it will run right past riverview hospital.


----------



## mr.x

hurry up and build the damn thing already!



good to know they've chosen the right route.


----------



## van-island

D J M K said:


> ^^
> van-island
> 
> it is my understanding that although both are the same price, the NW route will be faster, cheaper to run, and have better benifit to cost ratios.
> 
> however, the SW route is totally undeveloped and therefore has the highest future potential. i believe it will run right past riverview hospital.


cheers.


----------



## ssiguy2

I think there can be a good case for both routes but personally I think the SW route is best. It will serve PoCo, Riverview, but I think most importantly it would be a good route for a SkyTrain/LRT split over the PortMann to Guilford/North Langley/commuter buses coming in from the valley.


----------



## Mac Write

When's the open house? "Upgrade the Seabus terminal" 100% agree. It has it's style, but man it needs an over-haul (how could you keep the brown look, why modernizing it as well as drastically expanding the area for waiting the for seabus. Maybe have three terminals so once berth one is full, put people into berth 2 then berh 3 then have a holding area for all three, which would allow for space to hold up to 6 sailing waits).


----------



## mr.x

*Vancouver's new Waterfront Station Transit Hub*

A backgrounder on Waterfront Station:
- one of the busiest stations in Vancouver
- located in Downtown Vancouver, on the Central Waterfront
- a station for SkyTrain, SeaBus, West Coast Express, bus service
- in the future, it will be a station for the new Canada Line, downtown streetcar, and passenger ferry service







Posted by SFU Vancouver:


*A huge tip of the hat to jlousa for the document*


The following are exerts from Translink's Waterfront Station Transportation Hub Conceptual Plan Request For Proposal. 

The South British Columbia Coast Transportation Authority ("the SBCTA" or "TransLink") is seeking consultant services to develop a Waterfront Hub Transportation Concept Plan ("Transportation Concept Plan") for Waterfront Station, located on West Cordova Street at the gateway between the Core Business District (CBD) and Gastown. The Concept Plan will be used as a key input into the City of Vancouver's ("CoV") Central Waterfront Transportation Hub (the "Hub") Study. The intent of the Plan is to guide the development of a world class transportation facility that is highly functional, accessible to a variety modes and users and a destination in and of itself. It must keep pace with increasing transit ridership and reflect the importance of the station as a multimodal transit hub.

*It is planned that the Hub be a showcase for the city and that it meet the highest international standard for transportation hubs for the next 50-100 years.*









Waterfront Station Transportation Hub Conceptual Plan - Page 56

As part of the CoV Hub Study, the City will be engaging an engineering consultant to carry out feasibility analysis and develop preliminary structural concepts and construction cost estimates for a number of elements of their Concept Plan, including: a viaduct road network north of Cordova Street and east of Howe Street; a new transit concourse north of the Waterfront Station building; two new development sites above the railway tracks south of the new Canada Place viaduct extension; and a new entrance to the Granville Square parkade from Cordova Street. The results of this work are expected in late April, 2008. TransLinkYs consultants will be required to review the results of this engineering work, and where necessary, incorporate findings into the Transportation Concept Plan.

The centrepiece of the Waterfront Hub area is Waterfront Station, a landmark heritage building originally built as the CPR railway station. Waterfront Station features limited retail and office space and is served by a number of key regional transportation lines (Expo Line SkyTrain, West Coast Express commuter rail, SeaBus passenger ferry, local and express bus service, future Canada Line and a potential streetcar). Overall, the space at Waterfront Station hub does not live up to its potential as a dynamic multimodal interchange. Integration between transportation modes and the physical and visual connections to the surrounding neighbourhood must be improved

Waterfront Station is the terminus and seventh busiest station of the SkyTrain networkand forms an integral part of the regional transit system servicing Metro Vancouver.


Current and potential future transportation services at Waterfront Station include:
*
SeaBus to Lonsdale Quay:*
-3.2 km passenger ferry linking North Vancouver with downtown Vancouver.
-Two vessels, each carrying up to 400 passengers serve an average of 17,700 weekday passengers.
-Annual ridership in 2007 was 5.4 million boardings, a 4% increase over the previous year and projections suggest an additional 4% in 2008.
-A third SeaBus is to enter service in 2009, to address forecasted increased demand for SeaBus service by allowing service every 10 minutes in peaks, up fiom every 15 minutes today.
-North Shore bus service feeding the Seabus is also expected to improve significantly with frequencies increasing from 15 to 10 minutes when the third SeaBus enters service.

*Expo & Millennium Line SkyTrain Terminus*
-Both SkyTrain routes (Expo and Millennium) terminate at Waterfront Station.
-Trains every 108 seconds in peak periods.
-Weekday SkyTrain boardings at Waterfront are estimated at 15,600, with 10,400 boardings Saturdays and 7,000 Sundays.
-The AM peak hour sees 1,350 boardings and 2,000 alightings at this station.
-The PM peak hour sees 2,700 boardings and 1,825 alightings at this station.
-There is significant "reverse peak" travel at this station, generated by transfers to and from SeaBus and West Coast Express.

*West Coast Express (WCE) Terminus*
-Commuter rail service linking Mission, Port Haney, Maple Ridge, Pitt Meadows, Port Coquitlam, Coquitlam and Port Moody with downtown Vancouver.
-Five trains operate only in the peak direction, weekdays only.
-Trains operate approximately every 30 minutes with passenger volumes of up to 1,300 per train arriving and departing Waterfront.
-Annual ridership in 2007 was 2.4 million boardings, a 4% increase over the previous year.
-Since opening in 1995, ridership has increased steadily from about 5,000 riders a day to well over 9,000, with an overall growth rate of 60 per cent.

*Bus Terminus:*
-It is intended that the Hub become more of a regional rapid transit centre serving multiple modes of rail, SeaBus, and regional higher order bus services as well as local services. Part of the study will be to determine the overall desire for services, the number of bus routes and type of route including potentially Bus Rapid Transit service along Hastings to Simon Fraser University as well as limited stop B-Line services and local trolley service.
*
Heliiet Port*
-Helijet scheduled helicopter service operates to Victoria from a floating dock adjacent to the SeaBus terminal.


In addition to existing transportation services, the following services are planned or are potential future additions to the hub, which will need consideration as part of this study.

*Canada Line Terminus*
-The Canada Line rail rapid transit system to Richmond and the airport will open in late 2009, replacing the #98 B-Line that now starts on Cordova Street in front of Waterfront Station. The Canada Line will terminate below Granville Street, just south of Cordova Street, with one of the station entrances leading to the main hall of the CPR station to provide connections to other transit services at Waterfront Station. A second entrance at Granville and Hastings will serve much walk-in traffic tolfrom the CBD that now uses the #98 B-Line stop at Burrard Station, as well as some bus connections
*
Future: Downtown Streetcar*
-The City of Vancouver has proposed a streetcar network for downtown Vancouver with a phase 1 line extending from Waterfront Station around False Creek to Granville Island. More information can be found at: http://www.city.vancouver.bc.calengsvcs/transport/streetcar/index.
*
Future: Passenger Ferry Services*
-Private inter-regional passenger ferry services to Victoria and Nanaimo have operated in the past from the outside berth of the SeaBus terminal and should be provided for in the future. TransLink may also expand passenger ferry services within the region to Bowen Island, West Vancouver and potentially other destinations.

*Future: Intercity Passenger Rail Services*
-While not currently on the horizon, consideration shall be given to providing passenger and track capacity for future intercity passenger rail services (e.g., to Seattle and Portland) within the facility given its strategically central location and lack of alternatives.
*
Future: Transit Expansion*
-The Province of British Columbia recently announced a plan to invest $11 billion in the regional transit network. This plan includes a major expansion of the rapid transit, rail and bus system, as well as significant upgrades to existing facilities. This investment will significantly increase transit ridership and thereby add considerable volume to existing transit facilities, including Waterfront Station.

*Potential Future: Whitecaps Stadium*
-The study should take into account the possible development of a 15-30,000 seat stadium within the Central Waterfront Port Lands, currently under discussion between the Whitecaps and the Vancouver Port Authority.


Options should acknowledge the diverse mix of users (commuters, workers, tourists, cyclists, residents, etc.) of the station hub and surrounding area and propose ways to enhance its function, vitality, and public image and visibility both as a transportation hub and a destination. Specifically, options should: Identify passenger and facility improvements that will enhance access, connectivity between modes, comfort, safety and wayfinding throughout station area;

-Address multi-modal transportation integration and expansion (e.g., bus, train, SkyTrain, SeaBus, streetcar, passenger ferry, cycling, walking, etc.);
-Identify preferred locations for transit services within the facility (.e.g., specific locations on street or within a designated terminal area).
-Identify special zones (e.g., transit priority, ticket purchasing areas, fare paid zones, potential fare gatelticket barrier cordons), indicating required capacity and widths, passenger amenities, wayfinding and information improvements within the station and the immediate Hub area.
-Optimize all at-grade, above grade, vertical and horizontal connections to and within the station hub, including Canada Line and bus transfer zones, and to the surrounding pedestrian and cycling network.
-Maximize the legibility of vertical and horizontal wayfinding and orientation opportunities for pedestrians and cyclists to all modes. 
-Identify vertical connections between the modes, key destinations and street grade, and any other facilities (e.g., ramps) required to service bicycles and people with limited mobility.
-Incorporate principles of safety and security in ways that enhances the Station as a public space, both day and night and throughout the year.
-Propose scenarios for expanding people conveyance systems such as locations of elevators, stairs, escalators, walkway widths, etc.
-Improve cycling access and wayfinding from the surrounding proposed street system.
-Explore options for providing cycling storage at the station.
-Assess and identify any retail opportunities within the station, including cycling facilities.
-Identify ways to appropriately integrate the station with the neighbourhood and to create a better connection with the waterfront.
-Propose innovative ways of expanding the existing building / space while respecting the heritage and character of the CPR station building.


----------



## deasine

weird... wonder why a few of these renderings weren't posted during the public consulations. Great looking though.

Anyway, I know I'm a little obsessed with fare gate integration, but from the floorplan blueprint, it looks like there is ample space for fare gates. On the artist rendering, there doesn't look like a lot of space. What are your views for this?

And good to see multiple WCE entrance/exits.

AND ONE MORE THING, it's nice to see TransLink on the boat!

THANKS JLOUSA AND SFUVANCOUVER [btw, did anyone post this up on the SSP waterfront thread 'cuz I dont' remember seeing it]!


----------



## mr.x

I posted the renderings and diagrams, SFU and Jlousa did the rest.


----------



## Pule

Huge project and it will be fantastic when its completed.


----------



## Daguy

Some shots I took yesterday:


North of Broadway















































Broadway-City Hall Station






































South of Broadway






































Oakridge-41st





























Marine Dr. Station
























































North Arm Bridge (View of pedestrian/bikepath work)


----------



## mr.x

Canada Line No.3 Road Guideway Lighting Test.....it changes colours between blue and purple









from http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157604770169643/


----------



## mr.x

Major update by *Tafryn*, April 29-May 1:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/




BROADWAY-CITY HALL STATION













































Northern end of the platform


----------



## mr.x

Major update by *Tafryn*, April 29-May 1:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/




WATERFRONT STATION





























































VANCOUVER CITY CENTRE STATION






































Station entrance construction


----------



## officedweller

Thanks for the pics - esp. the nightime lighting one.


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## officedweller

Looks good - but still wish it would include more expansion room to the north for additional tracks.

Mr X - that's akin to platform length expansion!!


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## Songoten2554

wow thats good they are changing the waterfront station to a mutli modal center and Street cars will be appearing thats awesome really cool go vancouver.


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## Songoten2554

thanks for the pictures man wow the lighting is impressive changes color its going to look beautiful hopefully by the night the bridge will light up with colors at night.


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## LosAngelesMetroBoy

Im supprised most elevated guideways dont do some sort of color changing. With LED lighting fixtures its not that difficult.


----------



## allurban

LosAngelesMetroBoy said:


> Im supprised most elevated guideways dont do some sort of color changing. With LED lighting fixtures its not that difficult.


It is an interesting idea...and I would rather see lighting than advertising wrapped around the support columns of an elevated guideway.:banana: 

Hmmm....another possibility...paint the columns brown, and the guideway alternating shades of green and sky blue...

Then hang planters off of the guideway...viola..."trees" :nuts:

Cheers, m


----------



## mr.x

allurban said:


> It is an interesting idea...and I would rather see lighting than advertising wrapped around the support columns of an elevated guideway.:banana:
> 
> Hmmm....another possibility...paint the columns brown, and the guideway alternating shades of green and sky blue...
> 
> Then hang planters off of the guideway...viola..."trees" :nuts:
> 
> Cheers, m


There are actually plans to have bushes and vines grow on some of the columns.


----------



## mr.x

Update by *Tafryn*, May 2:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/




YVR AIRPORT STATION


----------



## mr.x

Update by *Tafryn*, May 2:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/




TRAIN TESTING AT SEA ISLAND


----------



## isaidso

Fantastic news. I just hope they don't build it too small. They should be thinking on the same scale as the biggest train hubs in Europe. It might seem massive over building now, but a little analysis of the direction Vancouver is going in would suggest that such scale is exactly what Vancouver might need looking out 20-30 years. 

Vancouver will continue to boom for decades, has huge scarcity of land issues, and a pro-transit culture. It makes sense that Vancouver should build the best transit hub on the continent. Not only are there multiple transit modes that would terminate at this hub, but Vancouver is also the western terminus for all westbound Canadian traffic, and the northern terminus for everything coming from the US. This traffic will only grow.

The diagrams look great, but from what I can see, the concourse should be double or triple the size being depicted.


----------



## urbanfan89

They should consider starting intercity trains (to Kamloops or Kelowna or Seattle) from Waterfront. If high speed rail to Seattle and Portland is realized, then that could go there too.

We could brag that every mode of transportation is served there!

Only Hong Kong International Airport can share this distinction!


----------



## mr.x

More updates by *Tafryn,* May 5:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/






ABERDEEN STATION Precinct


----------



## mr.x

More updates by *Tafryn,* May 5:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/






BRIDGEPORT STATION Precinct


----------



## allurban

mr.x said:


> More updates by *Tafryn*, May 5:


Do you think it looks better with the colours or plain white cab?

Cheers, m


----------



## mr.x

^ i'd go for plain white any day.


----------



## arcaderat100

That's pretty nice.


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## jarbury

Really awesome plans there. Inter-city trains to Seattle are a great idea and the sooner they happen the better. The 2010 Winter Olympics will really confirm Vancouver as a world-city, and this is a downtown rail hub to match.


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## deasine

^Well we won't see it by the olympics unfortunately but yes Vancouver is starting to. We still have a lot to learn though.

I hate how many Vancouverites get to ahead of themselves. X_X


----------



## nomarandlee

Looks pretty dope. Don't know if I skipped over it but are there any cost estimates on this yet?


----------



## deasine

Nope not yet. It's still a conceptual plan but it would be brought to the City of Vancouver council by the end of the year. Then they'll be doing a detailed design and would include cost estimates and potential developments.

~~~

TransLink isn't going to let City of Vancouver steal all the glory of a waterfront transportation hub. They decided to improve the north shore seabus hub with many major renovations. Credits to jlousa for telling us about this on the SSP form, display boards are hosted by me:

Original URL: http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/procurements/Q8-0029_RFP.pdf[

*North Vancouver Lonsdale Terminal ~ A sample from a document from TransLink*


>


----------



## deasine

TransLink isn't going to let City of Vancouver steal all the glory of a waterfront transportation hub. They decided to improve the north shore seabus hub with many major renovations. Credits to jlousa for telling us about this on the SSP form, display boards are hosted by me:

Original URL: http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/procurements/Q8-0029_RFP.pdf[

*North Vancouver Lonsdale Terminal ~ A sample from a document from TransLink*


>


----------



## nova9

For something that I'm sure most people think is the smartest translink investment, I'm glad to see the seabus is getting some much needed loving. for something that's carried more than a million passengers, it's about time renovations took place.....wait, it's not approved yet is it? What's the timeline?


----------



## ssiguy2

Another question.....................when are we getting those new 48 MK11 cars? 
I did some SkyTrain math and realized that would not even double current train lengths on the Expo Line to say nothing about MLine cars. 
What's the storey or have they placed even more SkyTrain orders?


----------



## mr.x

ssiguy2 said:


> Another question.....................when are we getting those new 48 MK11 cars?
> I did some SkyTrain math and realized that would not even double current train lengths on the Expo Line to say nothing about MLine cars.
> What's the storey or have they placed even more SkyTrain orders?


34 cars in November 2009 and 14 cars in 2010.

And yes, the order would double current train lengths:

There are currently 60 Mark II cars. Most of them run in a 2-car train formation, and some run in a 4-car train formation. When the order of 48-cars arrive, it will mean that Translink will have the capability to run all of their Mark II's as 4-car trains - doubling train lengths.


----------



## Mac Write

60+34+14=108/4=27 4-car Mark II trains. How many Mark II 2 and 4 cars trains are there now?


----------



## DKaz

I think right now during rush hour there are up to five 4-car trainsets. Given that 10% of the fleet or 6 cars may be spares, that leaves 17 2-car sets. 48 cars will double those 17 2-car sets with 14 cars to spare. I'm hoping they can complete things by starting to run 6-car Mark-I trainsets.


----------



## ssiguy2

OK, I can see how that would double capacity on the EXPO Line trains but I don't think it will be able to double capacity on MLine trains as well.


----------



## mr.x

ssiguy2 said:


> OK, I can see how that would double capacity on the EXPO Line trains but I don't think it will be able to double capacity on MLine trains as well.


There's no need to double the capacity on the M-Line....there certainly is a need to increase capacity, but hardly to double....perhaps only when the SkyTrain extensions to Coquitlam and UBC are completed.


----------



## ssiguy2

I thought it would only be enough for the Expo Line and like you said that is where it's REALLY needed. Saw on web that the first 34 MK11 are arriving in early 2009 and remaining 14 early 2010. ..........
BTW......................................................................JACKPOT!! 
While meandering on the web for the SkyTrain fleet expansion I found a link to GVRD stats and it has all the ridership stats for each system eg, SkyTrain, WCE, Bus, Seabus from 1989 til the end of 2007! 
www.gvrd.bc.ca/growth/keyfacts/transit/.htm


----------



## ssiguy2

Woops, screwed up the web address,.................... 
www.gvrd.bc.ca/growth/keyfacts/transit.htm 

Seeing I am a computer moron it would be great if someone could put it up on the page, thanks.


----------



## Nanaimo Bars

Cool find! I love statistics. Interesting numbers for 2001 with the transit strike. Almost 300,000,000 total system boardings for 2007.


----------



## mr.x

Updates by *Tafryn*, May 5-7:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com




BROADWAY-CITY HALL STATION























































































OLYMPIC VILLAGE STATION - crane is gone


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## Songoten2554

great pictures Mr X its progressing very fast now i wish miami would do the same and expand their metrorail system too but Vancouver your lucky that you do have that though.

its just bad because in Miami they are cutting Tri Rail trains and all that its really sad oh man why Miami why?


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## Daguy

^^

We're actually getting another skytrain line by 2014, and both the Expo Line and Millenium Line are going to be extended as well by 2020, for an additional 29km of skytrain.


----------



## ssiguy2

Aren't I a an Einstein?..............................................................don't answer that. 

Can someone put it up on the thread? 

Translink has had good ridership growth since 2002.


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## deasine

A little hard to do that since it's a table.


----------



## mrtfreak

Nice to know that they have several projects lined up and are looking ahead in terms of public transport. That isn't always the case round the globe. The first picture of Broadway-City Hall looks like its like just a few metres below surface level. Wow.


----------



## Songoten2554

i know i am amazed too we don't get to see that massive construction for Mass Transit around not even here in Miami oh man i just feel awful now.

i am getting the feeling to move towards NYC don't know why?


----------



## Plumber73

mrtfreak said:


> The first picture of Broadway-City Hall looks like its like just a few metres below surface level. Wow.


That's what you usually get with cut and cover. Makes getting in and out of the station very easy and quick.


----------



## ssiguy2

I did a little investigation. When the province stated that the Evergreen Line {god I hate that cheesy name} would be SkyTrain-like I couldn't for the life of me figure out what they meant. I thought that Bombardier was the only maker of SkyTrain technology{ except for high speed} so it essentially meant a gift to Bombardier. 
Well turns out that Hitachi also builds the same cars as the SkyTrain using lineur technology and has sold severval systems in China. 

They looked like MK1 cars but they probably make a MK11 rendition aswell. I assume they would be able to work on our current system. I hope so or Bomardier has us by the balls. 
Does anyone know of any other systems that are SkyTrain-like?


----------



## mr.x

^ haven't we already explained that to you before?


----------



## deasine

To be fair to ssiguy2, I don't think we discussed other comapnies who make LIM trains: only @ SSP, or at least in detail.

Kawasaki Heavy Industries also makes LIM trains.


----------



## ssiguy2

BTW I disagree with the idea that the MLine should have double it's capacity because something radical might happen..............people will get a seat. 

Vancouver has the odd habit of building expensive transit projects but then not purchasing enough rolling stock to go with it. Let's put this into perspective. 6 MK11 cars is only the equivalant of 3 subway cars. Yes, they are very frquent but doesn't change the fact it will only be 3 subway cars. If you want to turn people off transit, making them stand for 20 minutes { and praying someone near you leaves their seat up as they are getting off at the next station} is the way to do it. 

I think the first thing Translink should do before any extentions take place is the length ALL the station on both the Mill & Expo lines and double the fleet and or prefferably at the same time do both at the same time. All the new extentions should be have to be able to capable to accomodate 9 MK11 cars to begin with and providing the rolling stock to do it so Vancouver doesn't have to go this again in 20 years. 

You build rapid transit for the next 100 years not just to see you thru the next 20. 

Toronto opened its original subway in 1954 and metro Toronto had just 1.2 million and they started with just 6 km but they built the stations with the vision of what they would need over the next 100 years. They built the station 150 metres long to begin with and thank god they had the vision to do so. Montreal followed Toronto's ideals. Vancouver has no such vision.


----------



## deasine

It's easy for you to say that because you don't consider the fact that there is a pricetag to everything. I'm pretty sure TransLink wants to do exactly that: but where's the funding going to come from? Fare revenue can only give you so much, same with taxes, and the provincial government can only help with so much too. What we need is the Feds to come along the same boat, in which they haven't.

When Vancouver planned ALRT in 1980s, no one would think that there will be so much people. Absolutely no one. I find it quite amazing that they built SkyTrain platforms to 80m in the first place. Luckly, they even planned it so that the platforms can be extended at least to 110, and 120 in some stations. What you have said about doubling capacity and adding more rolling stock is already in the plans. The provincial government is extending platforms, will be adding more trains [that's a given already since they are adding new SkyTrain lines and extending existing ones], and TransLink has been phasing in new SkyTrains already. First batch in 2009, then next in 2010, and more will be coming after.

If you haven't already noticed, the 4 car Mark IIs aren't unreasonably full - yes you do have to stand in peek hours. Imagine when we get 6 car Mark IIs.

When you say Vancouver has no vision, I'm not sure if you realize how much room for expansion we have been including in our transit projects. The only one that doesn't include too much room for expansion is the Canada Line, in which we all agree and heard more than enough complaints from you.

Talking about Toronto here: I wonder what mistake Toronto has done for their Scarbourough RT. They have not made ANY improvements to the RT, although finally, there are a few sketchy plans. The RT is FULL of people during peek hours, there's not enough of 'em running along, and they are wondering whether they can even fit Mark II cars into the line.

Montreal's transit system also comes with a hefty price tag as their rubber wheel metros has to go underground: or at least the entire network is underground at the moment.

[Last sentenced removed because of dleung =P]


----------



## Plumber73

Regarding platform lengths... is it just me, or is the Loughheed station much longer than all the other stations. I never really thought about it until now.


----------



## dleung

Perfectly correct answer until...



deasine said:


> Honestly, I don't understand why aren't you moving to Toronto or Montreal if you think they are so good.


We west coasters aren't known for being defensive :cheers:


----------



## deasine

LOL. Fine I'll remove that just for you dleung. =P Nice to see that ur still here... we missed you for a while.



Plumber73 said:


> Regarding platform lengths... is it just me, or is the Loughheed station much longer than all the other stations. I never really thought about it until now.


Yes it is, a lot of which is because it is expected to be a major transportation hub, where the Evergreen Line and Millennium Line will meet. Again, we see "vision." Also, remember the third platform that exists for this station.


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## ssiguy2

Yes, all things have price tags but you do it right the first time. When building systems for billions, spend the extra couple of hundred million on station platforms and rolling stock. 
Sardines are meant for cans. 
People don't like to stand. I go to Commercial Drive twice a week via the SkyTrain from King George. I go at non-peak hours on Thus & Sat and the trains are terminally packed. 
I get on at King George and by the time it leaves Gateway people are already standing. 
Triple capacity on both the current M & Expo lines immediatly and then worry about expansions. Doing them both at the samee time would, of course, be ideal. 

At $5 a pop, people have the right to use SkyTrain without hyperventilating. 
Riding in relative comfort should not be considered a luxury. 

Proof is in the pudding, Vancouver has the lowest percapita ridership of any system in the western world except the US.


----------



## Plumber73

Gee, tough crowd. I think you gotta take into account the whole transit system, not just the rapid one. Not to mention the other modes of transportation. When it comes to rapid transit, and I know this has been talked about before, Vancouver has started rather late in comparison to those other cities. If Vancouver does in fact have the lowest percapita ridership..., I'm sure it won't be for long. Nothing to get too worried about. I just hope it doesn't take too long for all these skytrain expansion plans to get the funding they need.


----------



## deasine

See I would rather have rapid transit be accessible to more people first. Again, expansions will see an increase of capacity. The Evergreen Line will see huge increases in the Millennium Line, with every 2 minutes for a train instead of 5.

It's funny how you keep on mentioning seats 'cuz all of the world's best transportation systems are super packed and busy, namely London Tube, Hong Kong MTR, Paris Metro, Tokyo Metro. Have you ever ridden on one of those before? You know what's packed when you have...  Vancouver isn't even comparable yet. The only time I encountered MTR style packed was back when SkyTrain grounded for hours in the snowstorm last year.



Plumber73 said:


> Gee, tough crowd. I think you gotta take into account the whole transit system, not just the rapid one. Not to mention the other modes of transportation. When it comes to rapid transit, and I know this has been talked about before, Vancouver has started rather late in comparison to those other cities. If Vancouver does in fact have the lowest percapita ridership..., I'm sure it won't be for long. Nothing to get too worried about. I just hope it doesn't take too long for all these skytrain expansion plans to get the funding they need.


Exactly. Talking about vision, you can't just focus on transit in general. Look what Vancouver has done in terms of biking, allowing different transportation options. It's safe to say we have the best bike network in North America, although I have to say suburbs should start doing their part. Also look at the density around our rapid transit now: we have Joyce, Metro, and Edmonds [I'm talking about outside the metropolitan centres]. Growing density areas: Brentwood, Holdom, Lougheed, Gateway, and King George. Not to mention Coquitlam already has plans to densify the Evergreen Line corridor. For the Canada Line: Oakridge is slated to be the next municipal centre with more towers there - Richmond's got some amazing density around No. 3 Rd cooridor. Now that TransLink now realizes they hold many expensive properties, they too are going to hop on-board the real-estate boat.


----------



## ssiguy2

Vancouver has done a very good job of promoting growth along the SkyTrain lines. 

That said, not getting a seat turns potential transit users off. Many people mostly due to the high price of gas are starting to take transit for the first time or using it more regularily and this is a unique time and opportunity for transit. 

To maintain those new riders transit must be seen as a true alternative. No one expects there not to be crowds on a train on certain hours. It's assumed. At the same time when trying to persuade those valley dwellersd to switch to transit they want to know the system is fast and reletivly comfortable and standing for 25 minutes doesn't reinforce that especially when paying $136/month or $5 a pop.


----------



## dleung

When you approach the 4-5 ppl/m2 density on a skytrain it actually starts to get comfortable again, you don't have to hold onto anything for support, and you can sleep standing up...


----------



## DKaz

I've been on the train from Tokyo to Tachikawa once during the afternoon rush hour once... it was cozy to say the least but it really wasn't that bad but beats paying $600 a month for a parking spot.. won't even mention how long it'll take to get to work on the regular roads. Freeways are like $10-15 each way. We North Americans are generally so spoiled.

Lol dleung well... I got scolded at by the skytrain attendant once to hold on because I almost crashed into other passengers when trying to flip the page of the 24 Hours paper I was reading and the skytrain was stopping at the same time unexpectedly. I think it's wise to hold on.


----------



## deasine




----------



## mr.x

More updates by *Tafryn*, May 23:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/




Trains at YVR


----------



## amirtaheri

Quick question, the pillars, will they be painting that at all? I just feel that all that concret makes the whole thing look so boring. I know, function above form, but it'd be nice if it did look aesthetically pleasing!


----------



## deasine

amirtaheri said:


> Quick question, the pillars, will they be painting that at all? I just feel that all that concret makes the whole thing look so boring. I know, function above form, but it'd be nice if it did look aesthetically pleasing!


No need when Richmond is installing:










Which are planters for vines to grown on to. Some will also be wrapped with graphic community art.


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## spongeg

richmond is the only place to do anything with their pillars

i don't think surrey burnaby etc have ever done anything to the pillars or guideway


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## D J M K

*Money for single UBC subway line could pay for region laced by light rail.*


View full article and comments here http:///News/2008/06/05/UpWithTrams/

By David Beers
Published: June 5, 2008
TheTyee.ca

The planned SkyTrain subway spur along Broadway and out to the University of British Columbia campus will cost taxpayers 15 times what it would take to build a tram line along the same route.

In fact, for the $2.8 billion cost of the single 12 kilometre SkyTrain tube from Commercial Drive to UBC, Vancouver could build 175 km of tram lines crisscrossing the city and beyond.

That is the finding of a study led by Prof. Patrick Condon of the UBC Design Centre for Sustainability. His team based their calculations on the recent experiences of Portland, Oregon, and various European cities with light rail transit.

"This study demonstrates that the money needed for one 12 km subway line would be more than enough to rebuild and substantially expand the region's entire historic streetcar system," state the authors, noting that Vancouver and surrounding communities were built along trolley lines dating back to 1890.

Portland success story

But isn't Vancouver now too congested with traffic to make room for street cars on major thoroughfares?

Not if your guide is Portland, which is about the same size as Vancouver and in the last decade has installed tram lines along former street car routes long ago abandoned to busses and autos. Not only did Portland's trams not clog traffic, they stimulated real estate development along their routes, which vitalized neighbourhoods, sparking a building boom that created more tax revenue for the city.

"Within a one-block distance from the streetcar, new net development increased more than three times as rapidly as in any other block-distance," the report's authors calculate.

The demand for cost efficient public transit in Portland came directly from voters, who shot down a bond measure that would have funded a more expensive system. That message from the citizenry caused planners to seek out tram technology that is two thirds cheaper than more common light rail options and vastly less expensive than the SkyTrain system.

Portland tram trips are much slower than SkyTrain, but could be made speedier than automobile travel by coordinating street light changes as the tram travels through intersections, and by giving the tram a dedicated right of way over parts of routes, say the report's authors.

Slower can be better

The tram's pace may be better suited to the cross town UBC run than a faster subway with fewer stops, the authors assert.

"A high speed system is best if the main intention is to move riders quickly from one side of the region to the other. Lower operational speeds are better if your intention is to best serve city districts with easy access within them and to support a long term objective to create more complete communities, less dependent on twice-daily cross-region transit trips."

The report doesn't portray the SkyTrain as a white elephant -- nor is it the all purpose solution to big city transportation needs.

European cities such as Berlin, Vienna, Paris and Dublin offer a model of how to balance "expenditures between high speed trains, subways and light rail, and cheaper and lighter tram systems to serve more complete urban districts."

"There is no doubt that such a system would not be as fast as a subway," concludes the UBC team. "However based on the Portland experience, the benefits may be an improved quality of life in many neighbourhoods, an improved investment climate for higher density homes and job sites, enhanced access for citizens within their own districts and to other parts of the city (especially for the rapidly expanding seniors' demographic) and a substantially reduced cost per ride.

"As our region pushes towards a goal of 80 per cent reduction in per capita greenhouse gas production, it behooves public officials to look carefully at how taxpayer dollars can be most effectively used towards the creation of a very different pattern of transportation than the one we know today. A return to a pattern known before the rise of the automobile may merit a careful re-examination," wrote the authors.

'Take a hard look' urges prof

The $2.8 billion earmarked for the SkyTrain subway line to UBC is "a huge amount of money for a line to serve just the west side," Condon told The Tyee.

"The good news is we have time to figure out how to best use our limited transit money to make a more sustainable city. Portland has used very modest transit investments to make their neighbourhoods better places to live and work; transit for neighbourhoods, not simply through them. We should take a hard look at their experience before it's too late," said Condon, who holds the UBC James Taylor Chair in Landscape and Liveable Environments and is helping to develop a sustainable town for 15,000 residents in Surrey.

The report, co-written with Condon by UBC Landscape Architecture students Sigrid Gruenberger and Marta Klaptocz, can be read here.


----------



## D J M K

^^

i do not know how all those students will fit on trams....


----------



## Yardmaster

Very impressive ... I will post again.


----------



## LosAngelesMetroBoy

i still think the trains look too short......


----------



## DrT

^^
Excellent article with alot of food for thought. Good find D J M K.

I know this was addressed, but it would seem that a plethora of trams would clog car traffic.

The other issue is wait times. If you have to wait longer than 3 or 4 minutes to hop on, public transport is not fun.

But, if the model works, it works, and I'm for maximizing "bang for the buck" with tax dollars!


----------



## Ravman

i dont think we need to extend the skytrain all the way to ubc. up to arbutus is fine and if it has to go more than ubc should chip in... the university has money to fund the rest of it if it needs too..


----------



## mr.x

*Jared* from SSP puts it best:


- Portland's streetcar is basically a trolley bus on rails; it runs in mixed traffic and stops every couple of blocks. The report suggests you could speed it up by adding a bunch of improvements, but those would be expensive, and suddenly the amount of tram you can buy for $2.8 billion is a lot smaller. But a smaller number isnt quite as dramatic, is it?

- The $2.8 billion figure is (apparently) supposed to be a final-cost figure (i.e. construction costs in 2020 dollars). I have no idea what year they got their Portland costs from (they dont make it clear), but I doubt they assumed another 12 years of construction inflation. Hence, the amount of tram you could built would likely be lower.

- The report automaticaly assumes the tram caused the massive redevelopment of downtown Portland; it it not safe to assume this would not have happened without it. If vancouver built a streetcar along Pacific Blvd in the early 90's, people would claim the streetcar caused Concord Pacific/North False Creek. And yet we know that's false, because all that development happened even without the streetcar. I'm not saying the tram didnt help, I am simply saying the report does not sufficiently analyse the three different possibilities (causation, correlation and co-incidence). Also, there is absolutely no analysis of redevelopment due to SkyTrain, which has shown itself to have, at the very least, a strong correlation to real-estate development. In fact, it would do even better if it wasn't prevented via zoning restrictions (*cough* Broadway, Namaimo, 29th Ave *cough*).

- The study's spending breakdowns for all those European bunch of cities are flawed, since it doesnt examine in which context these different technologies are chosen (i.e. why is there mixed spending and how is technology assigned to different routes). If anything the mixed spending speaks to the sensibility of using the correct technology where appropriate, something I'm sure most of us advocate. Ironically, Paris's Metro system, due to its close station spacing, is too slow to be useful over city wide distances, so they built the RER to cover these long distances. Likewise, use SkyTrain for regional stuff, and trams for localer (i know thats not a word!) stuff. Of course, you have to shrink everything from the Paris context to the Vancouver context, since we're much smaller, but the principle stands. Using Strasbourg as an example is stupid, due to the geographical proximity afforded by being a city of only 250,000, everything is closeby, even if its on the other side of town. A tram system (by itself) would not work in a much larger city, like Vancouver.

- As some others mentioned, building rails along Broadway is more expensive that normal, due to the massive amount of utilities along Broadway.

- They completely ignore all issues surrounding capacity on Broadway. The 1999 report by the CoV predicted, iirc, 120,000 to 150,000 riders/day. It should be noted:
a) report assumed a transfer to Rapidbus at Arbutus
b) numbers were pre-Upass
c) natural population growth has occured since the report
d) people are flocking to transit in droves, for both financial and environmental reason
e) a more built out system by the time the line reaches UBC (canada line, evergreen line already done) makes transit that much more attractive.

- Worst of all is the assumption that speed isnt important, and its station spacing which matters. There's a reason why the 99 B-line is chock-a-block, but the 9, WHICH FOLLOWS THE EXACT SAME ROUTE, doesnt have massive lineups. People want to get where they are going, and they want to get there FAST. Getting to the 99 is a much longer walk for me than the 9, but I still take it. Why...oh right, i save a hell of a lot of time, despite the longer walk. Portlands streetcar averages 16km/h. At 12km to UBC, this would be a 45minute ride, compared to the 40 minute B-Line.

- The map may make a sexy case for trams, but it doesnt in any manner differentiate between the quality of the two systems in the map.

- The notion that the SkyTrain will only serve Westsiders (cant remember if this was in the study or in the article) is silly. The extention is GEOGRAPHICALLY LOCATED in the Westside (which appently extends as far as Clark Dr. now, but whatever...), but it is really where the ridership is coming from that matters. People all over the lower mainland go to the Broadway corridor and UBC, and hence they will all benefit. The report suggests that it would be nice to be able to use the system to get around you own neighborhood (isnt that what buses are for?), but it ingnores the fundamental fact that lots of people need to commute cross-regionally. Last time i checked, not every neighborhood has a University. Actually, come to think of it, the study seems to have a strange notion that more kms of track is automatically better, when in fact it is the ability to attract (current and future) riders that matters.

---------------------


All that being said, I dont want to make it sound like I think tram/streetcar/LRT suck. They dont, infact im strongly in favour of building a bunch of them, but buildign them where they are appropriate. Broadway is not such a place.


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## Daguy

^^

There are some capacity issues that will become a problem in 20 years, but for now it's pretty typical of the Vancouver way of doing things. The system is automated, so it revolves around shorter trains which arrive more frequently. Overall it's pretty good, we have trains coming every 2 to 3 minutes on the expo line during rush hour, and on the Canada line it will be every 3 minutes in Vancouver (combined service) and every 6 minutes in Richmond and on Sea Island (Airport branch). 

On opening of the Canada Line Vancouver will have the longest rapid transit system in Canada at 68.5km. Sure Toronto's capacity is much higher, but then again they have more than twice as many people in the region than there is in Metro Vancouver, so we're doing pretty well I think.


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## deasine

Expo line (combined service) trains arrive every 90 seconds or less during peek hours.


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## Der Alte

deasine said:


> Expo line (combined service) trains arrive every 90 seconds or less during peek hours.


Not to be too nitpicky....but the Expo line sees sustained headways of 108 seconds during peak periods. 90 seconds is the closest practical headway. Headways can go down to 90 seconds to clear delays, but they are not sustained. 

Any way you slice it though, the wait isn't long.


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## nova9

I agree. Leave it for academics in their ivory towers to get it all wrong and not in the perspective. Most of us at UBC who want the skytrain (even though we'll probably be finished our pHD by then) are from the Eastside or beyond Vancouver. This prof claims people would rather see a wider network as opposed to a short travel time - he's dead wrong. For those of us that don't have the luxury of living close to campus, a minimum 45 minute one-way trip to UBC is a huge waste of time. Taking 10 or 15 minutes off of that makes the trip more tolerable but what would a professor and his graduate students know of the suffering of the plebes (lol).

I don't think the extension was ever intended to serve the neighbourhoods of Westside just simply because those neighbourhoods were designed to have everything you'd need. Each of those cute little Westside neighbourhoods is well self-contained, the need for residents top travel between them is minimal - even then, they wouldn't need LRT or Skytrain to do it.

And honest to god, I want skytrain because it's automated. I'm sick of dealing with bus drivers that don't take in mind our rush to get to places we need to get to. Taking the bus drivers out of the equation and having a set schedule in which the trains run would take a lot of stress away for me.


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## Daguy

^^

Yes and it's not like Broadway is exactly lacking in development projects already. They're going to keep coming even if nothing is done. The trolley network will supplement the skytrain extension for a beautiful system that can serve local and commuter traffic along Broadway.


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## ssiguy2

One thing that REALLY pisses me off it the whole UBC SkyTrain and RAV is that they HAD to be underground because if not it would be an eyesore so we can spend a couple of extra billion between the two to keep the Westsiders {who are the least likely to take transit in the first place} appeased. They get better transit, huge increases in their property values {like they need it} and still maintaining the Westsiders fine sensabilities. 

Translink and the city had no problem with making the poor eastsiders have to put up with it. 
Vancouver is truly one of the most socio-economic stratified city I have ever been to. 

Anyway, seeing Clarke stuck us with SkyTrain down Lougheed it is basically imperative that it be continued to atleast Cambie/RAV and possibly down to Granville/Arbutus but that's it. Ideally it would be great to have it all the way to UBC but that can wait as there are too many other priorities first. Hasting comes to mind which after the BLine hits Granville is a far busier route and much more congested. The BLine can also be relieved by BLine down Joyce and 4th Ave if needed. There are no such alternatives for Hastings. 

Right now Broadway carries 2 routes that serve it east of Arbutus and it runs very well and after Alma it flyes. Hastings on the other hand has to handle 5 regular buses, one BLine and has 2 buses only parelling it just one block north to handle the traffic. This does not even include rush-hour buses. After Arbutus Hastings is a FAR, FAR busier bus route and congested than Broadway will ever be. Also, Broadway West is built up as much as it can be while Hastings has huge areas that can be used for huigh density residential epecially between Clarke and Commercial. 

The long term plans are also oh so typical of Vancouver elitism. The gov has said that in the long term they would like to see LRT down Hastings. A good idea but again the Westsiders get an expensive, fast, tunneled SkyTrain but Eastsiders have LRT and only in "the future". 

I do not agree with building trams/streetcars where they are just a regular streetcar. It seems like a waste of money to me. LRT on the other hand is a different situation. ROW, spaced stations, reduction of left-hand turns/lanes. That would require Translink/Vancouver to put their money where their fat mouths are and actually make transit the #1 priority and that is not the case in Vancouver.............just look at how the #98 BLine was suppose to be but again that it would have been neccessary to inconvience the Shaughnessy crowd. 

LRT down Commercial/Victoria, Main St, King George, 4th Ave, Arbutus, Joyce, Scott Rd station to Newton, and Hastings all the way to Port Moody and also up to SFU if possible due to the mountain. 

All these possible routes are being sacraficed to appease our non-transit users in the Westside. 

Toronto has decided that even with a much denser city and a metro care 3 times as large, that LRT is the way to go with selected tunnel sections and only small subway extentions which were originally the province's idea. This is how great cities build great transit systems. In this day and age where employment centres{especially Vancouver}/cultural venues/ population diversity is decentralized it is imperativve to serve all the metro with excellent transit which affordable LRT can do and an expensive little UBC subway won't.


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## jlousa

Quick trademark Eco-pass and Eco-Trans before Sammy does.


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## clooless

mr.x said:


> lol, years ago Translink reports called the smart card program "ORCA: One Regional Card for All" but since, Seattle has stolen that name for their own system.
> 
> I'd go with Otter.


I don't see why we could not still use the "ORCA" moniker in reference to our smart card system. I really don't give a shit if Seattle stole the idea from us.


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## nova9

Well, I'm sick of acronyms - does everything have to mean something to the letter? I'd rather have Otter.


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## trainrover

^^ How about: _I live in Vancouver plus you did. Nuffin' said._


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## trainrover

nova9 said:


> Hrmmm...
> 
> Hong Kong = Octopus
> London = Oyster


Montreal's is called OPUS -- by the sounds of this two-week-old launch here, it's gonna be right pussy, infectious from inflicting hefty travel delays from the way the new system's devised for (many, many) infrequent transit users here . . .


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## Plumber73

Just call it Smart Card.


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## nova9

trainrover said:


> ^^ How about: _I live in Vancouver plus you did. Nuffin' said._


I don't get it....lol.


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## mr.x

posted by *officedweller:*



From the Busby website:

_
Busby Perkins+Will has been commissioned to design three stations for the Richmond portion of the new Canada Line transit system, an elevated line running parallel to No. 3 Road. Aberdeen Station, Lansdowne Station, and Richmond-Brighouse Station will be designed as a family, united by similarities in structure, glazing, and roof elements.

The stations will be fully glazed to encourage inward and outward visibility. Platforms will be accessible primarily via stairs and escalators, with transparent elevators providing wheelchair access. On the platforms, extensive use of glass will create a visual connection with the surrounding area. Distinctive wooden roofs will provide weather protection for the length of the platform, and will clearly identify the stations as part of the Canada Line's Richmond segment.

Each station has been concieved as a catalyst for future development, and has been designed to complement its envisioned surroundings. Aberdeen will support mixed-use commercial development, Richmond-Brighouse will serve a large-scale urban project, and Lansdowne will be surrounded by a large-scale park and plaza. Strategic daylighting will ensure that future development does not reduce the level of daylight brought into the stations, and rooftop rainwater collection will be incorporated into landscape design features. Other opportunities to incorporate sustainable principles are being pursued as designs progress._


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## mr.x

*City eyeing digital billboards*
By Matthew Hoekstra - Richmond Review - June 18, 2008


The city is eyeing *13 digital advertising displays for the downtown core to complement the reinvention of No. 3 Road and generate cash for the city.*

IBI Group, the consultant heading the city’s No. 3 Road restoration project, is recommending one large-format LED screen for the exterior of each downtown Canada Line station and 10 freestanding wrap-around displays along Richmond’s main drag.

In his report, the city’s Amarjeet Rattan said the technology could be “aesthetically pleasing, engaging and informative without creating a sense of visual pollution or overload” and generate revenue for the city.

“Many other public transit systems around the world have successfully introduced similar types of advertising at stations and other prime locations,” he said.

On Monday, staff’s recommendation to kick-start a pilot program for the displays was set for a council vote, but it was pulled from the council table.

City spokesperson Kim Decker said staff are folding new technical details into the report. She said it’s not clear when the recommendation will go to a council vote.

*The LED screens, similar to big-screen TVs, would be attached to the Aberdeen, Lansdowne and Richmond-Brighouse stations. The 10 360-degree displays would be located at various points on No. 3 Road between Cambie and Saba roads, under the Canada Line guideway.*

The proposed technology is said to offer images as sharp in daylight as they are in darkness, can withstand weather and be connected to the Internet.

According to Rattan’s report, *the project could net the city $400,000 a year in revenue, based on a sharing agreement between the city, InTransitBC and a partner that would pay for the capital costs of installing the technology.*

The city would also have access to portions of the displays for use by city departments at no cost.

The cash could go to the city’s public art reserve, leisure facilities development reserve and general revenue, according to Rattan.

Coun. Rob Howard called it a “pretty significant opportunity” for the city to generate revenue from a source other than property taxes.

“We talk all the time about property tax being an inappropriate in some instances, source of revenue for for a bunch of different city programs. This is an opportunity to generate some additional revenue, while we’re enlivening the street.”

In January, council voted to explore opportunities with InTransitBC for multimedia technology along with Canada Line on No. 3 Road that could be used in providing public information, visual displays, audio and advertising.

***

*No. 3 Road displays considered:

•Interactive projection technology: images projected onto sidewalk surface

•Revolution 360-degree high resolution displays: standalone wrap-around virtual content panels with built in computer, media player

•Interactive kiosks: users can access information, download videos and ring tones, take and send photos and shop online

•LED screens: flat screens at Canada Line stations attached to guideway and around guideway pillars*






Meanwhile, some new renderings are also out for some of the stations:



Broadway-City Hall Station











Marine Drive Station











Yaletown Station


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## spongeg

what?


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## van-island

I will stop using transit if I have to give my personal information to get a ticket. What the f%&k are they thinking?


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## jlousa

Guess that means you'll walk and bike everywhere, last I checked you need to give up your personal info to get on a plane or get car insurance or even a drivers license.


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## DrT

van-island said:


> I will stop using transit if I have to give my personal information to get a ticket. What the f%&k are they thinking?


Most people are willing to give up a great deal of privacy as a trade off for security.


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## Nutterbug

DrT said:


> Most people are willing to give up a great deal of privacy as a trade off for security.


...and will get neither.


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## urbanfan89

Nutterbug said:


> ...and will get neither.


Why not give a fake name instead? They won't verify it.


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## deasine

I don't see what's wrong with giving them your "personal information." They have better things to do than tracking where "Person X" goes around everyday. The London Police force was able to track the terrorists because they used smartcards to enter and exit the system (and with the help of many security cameras throughout the tube).

Anyways, here are a few Mark IIs from Yongin's Everline (Blue/White/Green) and Beijing's Airport Express (the red ones):









From Bombardier









From Bombardier









Credits to andomano from urbantoronto [trains at the Bombardier Thunder Bay Plant


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## urbanfan89

^^ It's entirely possible to track a terrorist without a mass surveillance state, and those London terrorists could have just used paper tickets instead. In fact even if they were required to register they could just give their name as Apu Nahasapeemapetilon and number as 778-555-1234.


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## Overground

Translink would have to know your name if you needed to top-up your Otter Card:wink2: by debit or credit card, as well as access your balance with your online account, right?


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## deasine

Overground said:


> Translink would have to know your name if you needed to top-up your Otter Card:wink2: by debit or credit card, as well as access your balance with your online account, right?


According to my knowledge, yes...


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## mr.x

More updates by *Tafryn,* June 30:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/





BROADWAY-CITY HALL STATION


































































































MARINE DRIVE STATION


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## mr.x

More updates by *Tafryn,* June 30:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/




ABERDEEN STATION



















































































































LANSDOWNE STATION









































BRIGHOUSE-RICHMOND CITY CENTRE STATION


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## trainrover

allurban said:


> Do you think it looks better with the colours or plain white cab?


Not much point puttin' up a colourless train against the coast's oh-so gloomy skies.....compared to other Canadians or canadiens, Vancouverites _are_ perfectly --and thus admirably-- capable of infusing colour into their clothing whereas monotonality's _still_ the rage over here (seriously).






mr.x said:


>


Feds've got a *real nerve* to be stampin' (stompin'?) yer fleet there.....all while refusing to adopt a nationwide public-transport policy.


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## mr.x

More updates by Tafryn, July 8:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/





YVR AIRPORT STATION


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## trainrover

How easy would it be to extend all its platform facilities any decade later?


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## jarbury

That airport to city link will be very helpful. I remember having to catch two different buses to get into the city from the airport when i was there in 2005. Is everything on schedule? When in 2009 is it supposed to open?


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## mr.x

jarbury said:


> That airport to city link will be very helpful. I remember having to catch two different buses to get into the city from the airport when i was there in 2005. Is everything on schedule? When in 2009 is it supposed to open?


The project is ahead of schedule, and was originally set for a November 30, 2009 opening but insiders are telling us that the new line will open three months ahead of schedule: it will open on the last weekend of August 2009, just in time for the new school year.



As for extending platforms, about 6 of the 16 station platforms will be 50-metres long when the line opens next year. For the remaining stations, they will have 40-metre platforms and can be extended to 50-metres with relative ease. Beyond 50-metres would be rather challenging and costly.


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## spongeg

i think before they would do that there will be more lines thus eliminating the need and worry of overcrowding in teh future

this isn't like the end of transit projects for Vancouver


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## deasine

Pictures from today. Not a huge update because... not many big changes? And I only have twenty minutes -_-

Templeton Station:


> Overall Comments:
> Looks really nice and very different from the rest of the network's stations.


Sea Island Station:


>


Richmond - Brighouse Station:


> Overall Comments:
> It's amazing how close the platform edge is to the HSBC building. The columns for the roof are being installed, by the east facade hasn't started yet. Looks like we won't see a roof until a little later.


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## trainrover

mr.x said:


> 50-metres long


Might that pittance be pitiless?


----------



## deasine

> TransLink tech update
> 
> As you may or may not know, TransLink has been in the process of updating it’s main technology services for a few years now. For example, they upgraded the CMBC’s radio network to improve correspondense between drivers and central communications - at the same time this upgrade allowed for GPS or Auto-Vehicle Location technology. They are also currently upgrading the CCTV systems on SkyTrain, including digitizing their storage mechanism from good ol’ videotape to something a bit more 21st century. While I don’t have the scoop on all this “under-the-hood” improvements, I’ve got some new and interesting info.
> 
> 
> One of the more visible tech additions of late has been the installation of AVL (aka: GPS), APC, which is Automated Passenger Count, and the audible annunciators. All three are relatively cheap. The technology is part of the communications system and is thus installed. These other technologies that it enables, such as dynamic displays, are currently under installation.
> 
> Thanks to all TransLink staff that helped procure this information!
> 
> 
> Auto Vehicle Location or AVL
> 
> AVL is the central part of Coast Mountain Bus Company’s new TMAC communications radio system. Thanks to the technology in this new system, a whole host of functions are now possible:
> 
> * real time fleet tracking for operations and customers
> * Computer Aided Dispatch
> * improved emergency response
> * off-line performance analysis
> * on board annunciators and dynamic displays
> 
> Not all of these are implemented, but many are underway.
> 
> The real time dynamic displays are on about 600 vehicles right now, with installation to be completed across the fleet by fall.
> 
> 
> Automated Passenger Count or APC
> 
> APC is being installed on 15% of the bus fleet, which translates to about 200 vehicles. The deployment decision varies based on bus and service type. The installation is complete and was paid for under the Capital Budget. APC will continue to be installed on 15% of new expansion buses. APC was studied for implementation on SkyTrain, but there are no immediate plans for installation.
> 
> 
> 
> Audible Annunciators
> 
> The annunciators that are currently being installed at the same time as the AVL dynamic displays occured to due to several reasons: TransLink’s Access Transit Strategy, improved customer service, following industry best practices, in addition to a Canadian court case that required stops to be audibly spoken for the blind (in this case, the annunciators allow the drivers to worry about one less thing).
> 
> 
> The annunciators will be installed across the fleet by fall.
> 
> 
> SkyTrain CCTV
> 
> SkyTrain’s Closed Caption Television system is being modernized as we speak. The storage system is being converted from videotape to digital and will be complete shortly. The cameras themselves will be upgraded in 2009/2010.



Source: Paul Hillsdon


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## OettingerCroat

nice job guys, construction seems to be progressing nicely. 

:cheers2:


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## ssiguy2

trainrover said:


> Might that pittance be pitiless?


Ya it will be but it will be able to accomodate another car which will increase capacity by 50% from the current configuration. 
The stations right now are either 50m or 40m and the 40m are built for easy and cheap extention to 50m. 
But ya, I agree it's a tiny little system. The current SkyTrain stations are 72 metres and were built for easy extention to 110m. Right now thhey can accomodate 6 MK1 or 2MK cars but are being extended to 110m hopefully by 2012 to accomdate 8MK1 or 3Mk11. 
Right now most trains are just one MK11 or 4MK1. They are PACKED! The capacity on the EXPO line is being tripled by that number by 2015 at the latest. 
The Canada Line when at 50m will have the equivalent capacity just slightly shy or 2MK11 or 6MK1 cars because these are not SkyTrain cars. These are true TTC subway-type cars. The capacity is much lower than nearly all subway system but it is true subway technology. The Canada Line is a subway but due to being driverless it can run, theortically, every 70 seconds. Not outrageous either because the current combined areas of both the EXPO/MILL lines {Waterfront to Columbia} of about 20km trains run up to every 80 seconds during rush-hour currently. That kind of frequency puts SkyTrain as amongst the highest frequencies in the world.


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## Songoten2554

nice pictures again good job Vancouver is progressing alot and thats awesome it will be open to service earlrer yes.


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## deasine

ssiguy2 said:


> Ya it will be but it will be able to accomodate another car which will increase capacity by 50% from the current configuration.
> 
> The stations right now are either 50m or 40m and the 40m are built for easy and cheap extention to 50m.
> 
> But ya, I agree it's a tiny little system. The current SkyTrain stations are 72 metres and were built for easy extention to 110m. Right now thhey can accomodate 6 MK1 or 2MK cars but are being extended to 110m hopefully by 2012 to accomdate 8MK1 or 3Mk11.
> 
> Right now most trains are just one MK11 or 4MK1. They are PACKED! The capacity on the EXPO line is being tripled by that number by 2015 at the latest.
> The Canada Line when at 50m will have the equivalent capacity just slightly shy or 2MK11 or 6MK1 cars because these are not SkyTrain cars. These are true TTC subway-type cars. The capacity is much lower than nearly all subway system but it is true subway technology. The Canada Line is a subway but due to being driverless it can run, theortically, every 70 seconds. Not outrageous either because the current combined areas of both the EXPO/MILL lines {Waterfront to Columbia} of about 20km trains run up to every 80 seconds during rush-hour currently. That kind of frequency puts SkyTrain as amongst the highest frequencies in the world.


The downtown stations are already built up to 50m. I'm a little worried about the stations more than the crowded trains: the downtown stations, the platforms seem so small width wise >_<

Anyway, I think the Canada Line can't handle every 70 second yet because of the long single tracking at YVR & Richmond-Brighouse. If we double track that area, yes it can handle that frequency. The SkyTrains can even handle a shorter frequency: 45 seconds is the maximum.


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## deasine

> *Production Way – University Station Bus Loop Re-Opens Monday, July 28*
> Please make note of the revised bus bay locations so that you know where to board your bus at Production Way – University Station starting July 28.
> 
> Bus Bay 1 (in loop)
> 145 SFU (loading only)
> 
> Bus Bay 2 (in loop)
> 110 Metrotown Station
> 136 Lougheed Station
> N9 Coquitlam Station
> 
> Bus Bay 3 (in loop)
> 110 Lougheed Station
> 136 Brentwood Station
> 
> Bus Bay 4 (on Lougheed Highway at Production Way)
> 145 Production Station (unloading only)
> N9 Downtown
> 
> 
> Production Way - University Station Bus Loop (91 Kb pdf)


Source: TransLink


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## deasine

> July 23, 2008
> *Independent audit confirms fare evasion estimate - Evasion rate and revenue loss lower than the public perceives*
> 
> An independent audit concludes that transit fare evasion rates have dropped across the system in recent years and are lower than members of the public believe. TransLink contracted the accounting firm of PricewaterhouseCoopers to provide an independent assessment of its fare auditing practices and to give a clearer picture of the amount of revenue lost due to people not paying the right fare.
> PwC staff accompanied TransLink’s Fare Inspection Officers on the September, 2007 fare audit, covering SkyTrain, SeaBus, Bus and West Coast Express. PwC found that the rate of evasion has dropped considerably over the previous five years and the amount of money lost as a result has dropped slightly, when the 2005 fare increase is taken into account.
> 
> PwC evaluated the methodology used by TransLink to estimate fare evasion, the process used to gather the data, and came up with its own estimate of the fare evasion that takes place. PwC finds TransLink’s methodology is sound, and that the sample size used by TransLink is many times greater than necessary for statistical reliability. The PwC report notes, however, that the fare audit data is used for other purposes in addition to estimating fare evasion, so the higher sample can be useful to that end.
> 
> The chart below indicates the percentage of rides in which the full fare was not paid: estimated by TransLink in March 2002 and January-April 2007, along with the PricewaterhouseCoopers estimate from the Sept. 2007 audit.
> 
> Fare Evasion Internal Audit - September 2007 (625Kb pdf)
> 
> 
> Evasion Rates
> March 2002	Jan. - Apr. 2007	Sept. 2007
> Bus 2.6% 2.8% 1.6%
> SeaBus	8.5% 5.7% 4.2%
> SkyTrain	8.7% 6.0% 5.4%
> West Coast Express 1.6%	--- 1.1%
> FULL SYSTEM	3.9% 3.7% 2.5%
> 
> 
> According to the PwC report, the rate of trips involving evasion – 2.5 per cent – could be described as “moderate” although there is no comparable benchmark. The survey finds the amount of revenue lost was just under $6.4 million (2.1 per cent of revenue) in 2006.
> 
> PwC also looked at options for checking fares and enforcing regulations, and found there are “significant opportunities to evade fares”. These include the “open system” at SkyTrain stations and a lack of consequences when evaders are caught. Currently, the only options available for punishing a fare evader are (a) force the person to buy a fare, (b) give them a violation ticket, or (c) remove them from the property. PwC says none of these is a deterrent, and calculates there is less than a 1-in-100 chance of being caught and that only 8 per cent of people who receive tickets pay them.
> 
> PwC suggests TransLink hold discussions with the provincial government on ways to increase the onus to pay violation tickets, noting that the current system has no serious consequences for evaders. One possibility, the auditors suggest, is to tie non-payment to other provincially mandated privileges, such as renewing a driver’s licence.
> 
> PwC also examined the design of the system, particularly with discussions about controlled access. The auditors advise that TransLink management should set a threshold of “acceptable fare loss” and be prepared to act when and if that level is ever reached. However, the report says, any measure to deter fare evasion needs to strike the balance between the cost and the amount of revenue recovered.
> 
> PricewaterhouseCoopers also commented on the need to reduce the desire to evade paying a fare, and notes that the media may have affected this with their reporting. Published or broadcast stories that suggest that fare evasion is widespread do not include actual facts to support the assertion: PwC states such reporting allows people to rationalize evading fares by saying, “everybody else does it so why shouldn’t I?” In fact, the PwC study says that the statistic that over 97 per cent of customers do pay their proper fare should be published, and knowledge of that might prevent such rationalization.
> 
> The audit findings correlate with a recent survey done for TransLink by NRG Research, which found that the public’s perception of the level of fare evasion (23 out of every 100 transit customers did not pay the proper fare), was at least three times higher than the actual rate. As one can see, the PwC report finds the public’s perception is almost ten times greater than the reality.
> 
> The results of the audit will be valuable input as TransLink reviews options for a new transit fare system that includes Smart Cards and the introduction of turnstiles on SkyTrain.


Source: TransLink


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## deasine

Mark II Trains for the Beijing Airport Express



> Beijing's Airport Express:
> Along with Line 10 and Olympic line (Line 8), Beijing Airport Express Rail opened on July 19 '08.
> 
> 7.19-20, *Beijing Airport Express Rail*(28.1km) T2(inside)->T3->T2(outside)->Sanyuanqiao Station->Dongzhimen Station
> 
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----------



## spongeg

did anyone catch "Business Asia" on BBC World the other night?

they did a half hour special about the honk kong metro and the octopus card

pretty cool show


----------



## Bulbous

could someone please help me out with the track layout around the Bridgeport station? does anyone have any links to the plans for that area at all?

it looks like an awesome project, it will be interesting to see when it is up and running!


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## deasine

If that's hard to see:


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## mr.x

jarbury said:


> Yeah I visited Vancouver and Seattle within a week of each other, an interesting comparison. Seattle had built freeways/motorways like they were going out of fashion. I remember crossing one of the bridges over Lake Washington (where it connects to that big island) and over the course of about 5 minutes thinking "wow I just saw $10 billion of roads". And yet, it was still nose-to-tail the next day when we headed north at rush hour (along the mega-wide I-5). By comparison Vancouver seemed damn easy to get around.
> 
> In addition to the SkyTrain, I remember the B-Line buses quite well. How extensive is commuter rail?


We have three B-Line routes right now, the 97, 98 and the 99. The 98 will be terminated next year when the SkyTrain Canada Line goes into service along the same route. And with the 99, it'll be terminated in a decade or so when the SkyTrain Millennium Line is extended by 12-kms all the way to the University of British Columbia over the next ten years. There will also be a 6-km extension of the SkyTrain Expo Line in Surrey, and the 12-km SkyTrain Evergreen Line will be completed by 2014 which will replace the 97.

As for commuter rail, we don't have much of that. SkyTrain really acts as both commuter rail and inter-city rail. We have one commuter rail line called the West Coast Express....there are 5 trains going into downtown during the morning and 5 trains going back to the suburbs at night, it goes one direction only. Yet still, the West Coast Express is seen as a huge success and holds a daily ridership of 10,000.

Future plans for the region, SkyTrain extensions and the introduction of Rapid Bus (even better than the B-Line):


















This $12 billion plan calls for:

- *$8.3 billion* investment in four new rapid transit lines in Metro Vancouver—*the Evergreen Line, the UBC Line, the upgraded and extended Expo Line *
- *$1 billion* for the purchase of *300 additional Mark II SkyTrain cars*
- *$1.2 billion* for a new, cutting edge energy efficient, *high capacity RapidBus BC service along nine major routes* in Metro Vancouver
- *$1.6 billion investment* in *1,500 new, clean energy buses* and related maintenance infrastructure to provide communities around the province with improved bus service
- increased security measures to enhance transit safety and use, *fare gates, and the introduction of a smart card system*


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## mr.x

Bridgeport Station


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## urbanfan89

Looks great!

Apart from the surreal platform size.


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## mr.x

urbanfan89 said:


> Looks great!
> 
> Apart from the surreal platform size.


One the bright side, it'll be the world's largest airport people mover and the first airport people mover in history to serve the entire city!:lol::nuts::cheers:


*cries inside*


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## G5man

Holy crap, that sounds like a very good investment in terms of mass transit. I wish Seattle would put more money towards it. Wish we had spent the money earlier and now we're paying the price for holding off.


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## deasine

Great thread mr.x =P This will bring more awareness to our system.. =)


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## mr.x

*Canada Line construction 80% finished; traffic fully open within 2 months*

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - Good news for drivers who use Cambie Street in Vancouver, your creeping and crawling days are almost over. It's also good news for businesses along the Cambie corridor, as surface construction for the Canada Line is almost finished.

Steve Crombie with InTransitBC says they have completed 80% of their work, and things should be getting back to normal by the end of September or early October. "What is left to be done is all the work that happens underground that people won't see, like the all track work, the electrical work, the finishings of the tunnels and the stations. That represents the last 20%."

Crombie says drivers and pedestrians can watch for big changes in the next couple of months as traffic patterns are re-established. But some sections are not quite done. "The area from the south end of the Cambie Bridge to about 8th Avenue is still tied up in terms of reduced traffic lanes, due partly to the tunnel we're finishing, plus finishing work we're doing in that area." 

The Canada Line is slated to be open in November of next year.


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## mr.x

updates by *Tafryn,* 8-05:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/




OAKRIDGE-41ST AVENUE STATION







































































BROADWAY-CITY HALL STATION










Staircase and escalator for northbound platform


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## ssiguy2

Is there going to be an underground pedestrian connection from 41st station to Oakridge Centre? 
BTW just for info.......all the downtown stations are already 50 metres as is Marine. 
I think they could extend most of the stations past 50m to accomodate 4 cars/80m EXCEPT Broadway. Broadway will be a true bitch if not impossible due to the Cambie/Broadway hill on Cambie.


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## mr.x

ssiguy2 said:


> Is there going to be an underground pedestrian connection from 41st station to Oakridge Centre?


Yes, there will be a connection.


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## mr.x

updates by *Tafryn,* 8-06:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/



ABERDEEN STATION PRECINCT


































































































































Station - notice the glass and lights






































































































































































I love the guideway greenery treatment.....and the station itself looks much better now with the glass coming along.


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## deasine

> August 12, 2008
> Celebrating sixty years of zero emissions on six wheels!
> 
> From #2040 to Transport 2040Metro Vancouver’s public transportation system marks a major milestone Saturday, August 16, with a celebration of the 60th anniversary of trolley bus service, beginning at 11:00 am at the Stanley Park bus loop (just north of the Rose Garden). With TransLink’s purchase of a new trolley bus fleet in 2005, our region remained committed to zero-emission buses, even as other transit systems were discontinuing them; now, with so many people concerned about greenhouse gas emissions and air pollution, one could say the decision shows the same foresight as the one to preserve Stanley Park, where the event is being held.
> The day kicks off with a treat for trolley bus fans: a parade of buses, provided by TRAMS – the Transit Museum Society. The buses represent every “generation” of electric buses:
> #2040, one of the original 1947 Brill trolleys
> #2416, a later-model Brill
> A “triesel” – part of the interim generation of Flyer trolleys, later converted to diesel and used for de-icing overhead wires
> #2805, a recently retired Flyer E901
> Two New Flyer-Vossloh Kiepe trolleys: a 40’ standard-length coach and a 60’ articulated trolley.
> 
> These will go on display at 9:30 at the Vancouver Transit Centre (VTC) in Marpole, and the parade will leave sharp at 10. It will be a trip back in time for those old enough to remember the Brills’ classic, rounded lines, green bench seats, BC Electric “worm-in-the-apple” logo and the wooden gate at the rear door; while younger people will get a chance to look at a proud point of Vancouver’s history, and note that “nostalgia ain’t what it used to be”. (Those wishing to ride in the parade are encouraged to take transit to VTC: take the #10, #17 and #100 to Marpole Loop, or the #351, #480 or #601 to Hudson & Marine.)
> The celebration is not just about buses, but will also recognize a key component of the transit system that is literally overhead and therefore often overlooked: the line crews of Coast Mountain Bus Co. This vital department is almost twice as old as the trolley bus system, as the men and women of the overhead crew have been keeping the 600 volts DC flowing in all weather, at all times of the day or night, since the original streetcars rattled down the tracks in 1890: truly, the unsung heroes of our public transit system.
> The public is invited to this fun event, which will be a chance to congratulate one another on one of the many things that make Metro Vancouver one of the most liveable regions in the world.


Source: TransLink

Sounds Interesting...


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## ssiguy2

Have you heard the latest from our beloved Translink? 
Translink has always contracted handidart out to local agencies. The area of South Surrey has always been contracted to Semiahmoo Association for disabled. They always did a great job.........but no longer. 
It will now be contracted out to a CALIFORNIA company. This is leading to a 100 person layoff. I know this as my sister works there. Her job is not in jeopordy but she has just had her staff cut in half. 
Your tax dollars at work. 
Contact Translink and your local MLA and protest our transit taxes going straight to a US company.


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## jlousa

That Californian company put in the lowest bid, maybe if the local company wanted to keep the contract they should've done the same. Pretty sure that Californian company will be hiring local drivers for the route so what's the issue here?
This isn't translink sending our money to the states this is translink spending our tax money the most efficently.


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## ssiguy2

That is completly not the point. 
These social service agencies that do this also gain a small amount of income off this contracting out. 
Our social service agencies use these funds to provide further services to our communities especially for the mentally hancicapped. Now, instead of these services which are non-profit been used for the benefit of of our community those extra income funds are being sent to a foreign country and to a PRIVATE company. 
Does it make you feel warm and fuzzy knowing that the next time a disabled person uses these services that they very much need some of that money will be heading straight to California to assist a US corporation. 

BTW, according to Jim Dawe who I spoke to at Translink as he oversees the running of handi-dart services at Translink open stated that this is the first time this has ever happened in a Canadian transit service. Remember that next time you pay your fare.


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## deasine

I don't see what's wrong... this just reminds me of the people who get pissed off that BC Ferries didn't build the new superferries here...


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## jlousa

So are you suggesting that Translink pay extra so that my taxmoney can be used for a charity of their choice? I would get more warm fuzzy feelings by saving money and donating the my money to a charity of my choice.

I'll think about that when I pay my fare.


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## NetMapel

Wow I just scanned through the SCBCTA (TransLink)'s 2040 plan. Seems like Surrey/White Rock's employment opportunities is going to surpass downtown Vancouver ? That doesn't sound good with reverse commuting and other potential transportation problem.


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## jlousa

Not sure I follow about the reserve commuting, as by that time Surrey is supposed to have a larger population. So in fact it makes more sense.
Besides it's great that we have the city set up this way, it's a waste of resources to have busses/trains crowded one-way and empty on the return trip, by having a solid commute both ways we can double the efficiency of our transit system.


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## ssiguy2

Not the way Surrey is going forward. There is an area down here that has opened up. A MASSIVE light industry/commerical developments. It looks like university, over a dozen LARGE complexes and it keeps growing. 5 years ago there was nothing there and now its a huge employment centre. It's the same size as the huge industrial area of the Main/Clarke/Terminal/2nd Ave in Vancouver.
The problem?........it is not served by a single bus. It must have employment of thousands and everyone has to drive to get there. 
Its funny, its not even on a true main drag or thruway so bus service will be extremely difficult and the damage is done and the way it is expanding, the damage will only get worse. The area is surrrounded by open gravel pits, agricultural land reserve, low density housing/farms, and some large parks. In other words there is almost no way to create a large residential area to make bus service viable. 

It is this kind of thing that will increase traffic, emissions, and horrid urban development and community cohention.


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## worldwide

van-island said:


> I will stop using transit if I have to give my personal information to get a ticket. What the f%&k are they thinking?


good one corey  i wasnt aware that you actually use transit to begin with


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## Daguy

Hey what's up with the 95 B-Line? Isn't the 135 supposed to be changed over this year? It doesn't look like it's part of any of translink's bus upgrades for September 1st.


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## deasine

Daguy said:


> Hey what's up with the 95 B-Line? Isn't the 135 supposed to be changed over this year? It doesn't look like it's part of any of translink's bus upgrades for September 1st.


It's delayed. Might have something to do with the RapidBus thing.


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## dleung

Can I leave my car at Richmond centre station and ride the subway downtown??? Can't think of a faster commute!


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## DKaz

dleung said:


> Can I leave my car at Richmond centre station and ride the subway downtown??? Can't think of a faster commute!


Sarcastic much?


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## deasine

dleung said:


> Can I leave my car at Richmond centre station and ride the subway downtown??? Can't think of a faster commute!


Leave your car at Bridgeport instead *wink*


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## mr.x

updates by *tafryn*, 8-22-2008
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/



RICHMOND CC-BRIGHOUSE STATION


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## city_thing

What a great idea! A good way of preventing graffiti as well.

It's a better way of beautifying the pillars than just painting them green, like a lot of other countries do (I'm looking at you, Singapore).


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## mr.x

updates by *tafryn,* 8-22-2008
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/



VANCOUVER CITY CENTRE STATION


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## rockin'.baltimorean

phenomenal pics, mr. x!!kay:


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## mrtfreak

city_thing said:


> t's a better way of beautifying the pillars than just painting them green, like a lot of other countries do (I'm looking at you, Singapore).


Not sure what you're implying, but I can say that Singapore does not paint its concrete pillars green.


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## city_thing

^^ I'm sure it does, I've seen them. I remember seeing them on the supports of a bridge there as well.


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## mrtfreak

Do you mean this?










That's the only green pillars I can think of. And living here, I should know. Sorry to hijack the Canada Line thread. Nice to see that the construction is progressing well.


----------



## Gecko1989

*Vancouver Skytrain M-line Photos*


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## lightrail

Fantastic pictures - thanks for posting

I see that at Braid, Translink still hasn't updated the destination sign - it still says "Commercial" even though trains have been running beyond to VCC-Clark for years now.


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## spongeg

what happenned at Lake City way?

Its been like that for months

i know the glass is broken - did someone shoot it or throw a rock through it or something?

great set very thourough


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## mr.x

i absolutely love these, thx for posting!

now if only the Canada Line were similar...


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## deasine

Holy cow so many pictures... thanks! We are going to move this thread back into the Vancouver SkyTrain thread.


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## Gecko1989

deasine said:


> Holy cow so many pictures... thanks! We are going to move this thread back into the Vancouver SkyTrain thread.


Ahh thanx man


----------



## oriental_horizon

very nice photos of the subway stations. I like the stainless steel and glass designs, opens up the architecture. I noticed it was very clean as well and you can't find any vandalism and graffiti. look like in some large cities which have public buses and subways vandalised and graffiti.


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## mrtfreak

Just wondering, does anyone know how the third platform at Lougheed Town Centre will work when the Evergreen Line is up?

Nice M-line shots there by the way. The architecture on that segment is really fantastic. Looks really modern.


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## ssiguy2

Great pics!. 
They did a great first class job on the Millenium Line stations. The designs are unique, bright, and airey.


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## mr.x

updates by *tafryn*
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/



2008-09-02 - Broadway/City Hall Station













































































2008-09-02 - Cambie Cut


----------



## mr.x

updates by *tafryn*
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/




2009-09-02 - King Edward Station - station entrance




























































































































2009-09-02 - YVR Station


----------



## officedweller

Posted by Deasine at SSP from Flickr:


----------



## city_thing

I really don't see why they can't paint the rest of the train.... it just looks weird and cheap.

Stunning new system though, how much is it costing overall?


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## mr.x

city_thing said:


> I really don't see why they can't paint the rest of the train.... it just looks weird and cheap.
> 
> Stunning new system though, how much is it costing overall?


It does look cheap, and that's just how tight they are with money.

CAN$2.05-billion is the cost.


----------



## mr.x

*Last stop Argentina for Vancouver's old trolley bus fleet*

Kelly Sinoski, Vancouver Sun
Published: Thursday, September 11, 2008

METRO VANCOUVER - They're too old and not accessible enough to serve the people of Metro Vancouver, but 80 retired trolley buses are being welcomed by a city in Argentina.

*TransLink has struck a deal with Mendoza to sell the 25-year-old New Flyer Industries buses for $2,300 each plus shipping costs.

TransLink representative Drew Snider said if TransLink had turned the buses to the wreckers for scrap, it would have received just $1,600 per bus, minus $600 each for decommissioning.

The buses are the only ones left of a fleet of 244 that joined the bus system in the early 1980s. The others were retired from service some time ago, with most of them turned into scrap.*

*Snider said the buses are "coming to the end of their useful service life" in Metro Vancouver because they aren't accessible to all passengers. The trolleys going to Argentina have steps at the entry doors and poles in the centre aisle.*

"The idea was to turn over the fleet as soon as possible," he said. "They just don't meet our needs because we need to get the whole fleet to accessibility standards."

Snider said the buses are still safe and Metro Vancouver wouldn't have sold them to Argentina if they were fit only for scrap. Mendoza, a city of about 900,000, doesn't seem concerned about the accessibility issues, he said.
*
"They seem to be putting together a fleet of buses from different parts of the world," he said.

The trolley buses are being hauled from Oakridge Transit Centre to the Fraser docks, the first leg of the journey to South America.*

The "parade" - with some buses being towed and others carried on flat-deck trucks - will continue today.

TransLink's current fleet of about 228 trolley buses are now 100-per-cent accessible, Snider said. The concern now is how to ensure the bus stops and routes are as accessible as the buses themselves.

[email protected]


----------



## DKaz

September 10, 2008
Uttering threats results in being banned from public transit

A forty-two year old Vancouver man has been banned from using public transit in BC if he has consumed any alcohol in the last twenty-four hours. 
Shirwa SHIRWA was on a bus in Surrey on June 03 2008, he was intoxicated and making death threats to passengers. The bus was crowded and its passengers included children. Several passengers called police, using cell phones. SHIRWA continued to threaten people on the bus, pointing at individuals saying he was going to kill them. 

Transit Police intercepted the bus at Surrey Central Bus Loop. As officers boarded the bus, passengers directed them to SHIRWA. Officers recognized Mr. SHIRWA having dealt with him before, considering him as violent and dangerous. The officers arrested him and escorted him to Surrey RCMP cells. During the arrest and escort he continued to yell threats at the officers, saying he was going to kill them and their families. 

On June 23 2008 the Provincial Court in Surrey placed SHIRWA on probation imposing several conditions on him, including not to use transit after consuming alcohol. He was released from custody September 06, 2008. 

SCBCTA Police Service commend the actions of the passengers and driver on the Transit Bus. Remaining calm and contacting Police resulted in the successful arrest of a possibly dangerous individual.


----------



## Yellow Fever

Well, if some body can make good use of those old buses, that's good for them and for us.


----------



## ssiguy2

^ and the stations are only 40metres long!


----------



## jlousa

Really???? Only 40M????? 
Sheesh, you'd think they built it that way as it's all that's needed.


----------



## Plumber73

city_thing said:


> I really don't see why they can't paint the rest of the train.... it just looks weird and cheap.
> 
> Stunning new system though, how much is it costing overall?


The unpainted areas will be full of advertising. We should wait and see the final product and then judge.


----------



## mr.x

updates by *tafryn*
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/


2009-09-09 - Oakridge - 41st Ave Station

































































































2008-09-09 - Broadway/City Hall Station











































2008-09-08 - Vancouver City Centre Station




















































Templeton Station


----------



## mr.x

updates by *tafryn*
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/



2008-09-17 - Sea Island Centre Station



























































































































































































Looking good!


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## spongeg

maybe they are going for the authentic subway look leaving them metal


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## mr_storms

mr.x said:


> It does look cheap, and that's just how tight they are with money.
> 
> CAN$2.05-billion is the cost.


thats actually really cheap. However, the construction seems to be pretty disputive. When I visited vancouver in august, the granville st construction was very extensive/disruptive. I hope they might actually be willing to pay for real tunneling on future lines.


----------



## mr.x

mr_storms said:


> thats actually really cheap. However, the construction seems to be pretty disputive. When I visited vancouver in august, the granville st construction was very extensive/disruptive. I hope they might actually be willing to pay for real tunneling on future lines.


The probably would've needed $2.5-3 billion to do the job right....unfortunately, people were very stingy with money during the planning process.


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## lightrail

mr.x said:


> The probably would've needed $2.5-3 billion to do the job right....unfortunately, people were very stingy with money during the planning process.


Most people would opt for the cheapest method. In London, the deep tube tunnels were actually cheaper to build given the technology of the day (1900). The deep tubes were in London blue clay - a sort of chalk based clay - which is impervious and very easy to dig through. They also saved a lot of money by avoiding underground services. And they did cheap out: the City and South London railway built tube tunnels that were very narrow. In later years, the line had to be closed while the tunnels were enlarged. They also built station in a single wide tube tunnel with a narrow island platform. Of course, this cost a lot today to fix, requiring a new tunnel to be constructed.

*This is Clapham North as it looks today - almost unchanged from when it opened in June 1900.*









Finally, many tube lines follow the streets above to avoid paying easement cost to landowners above. The Bakerloo, Piccadily, Central and Northern all follow the roads, which means tight turns and severe speed restrictions. The Jubilee and Victoria ignore the streets and just blast straight between two points deep under the buildings - the trains on these lines are much faster.


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## L2

^^ Does that station suffer overcrowding in peak periods? The island platform looks quite narrow, would hate to fall onto the third rail below.


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## MelbourneCity

How crowded does it get? Are there plans to rebuild it, as they've done with other stations on the tube?


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## Plumber73

^^ Ask the Tubeman.


----------



## deasine

> *City to announce streetcar vehicle provider and new name of Downtown Streetcar 2010 Demonstration Project*
> 
> Vancouver Mayor Sam Sullivan will be making an announcement on the morning of September 30 regarding the City of Vancouver’s modern vehicle provider for the Downtown Streetcar 2010 Demonstration Project.
> Tuesday, September 30
> 11 am to 12 noon
> Across from 1800 Spyglass Place
> (at the edge of Southeast False Creek, under the Cambie Street Bridge)
> At this event, Mayor Sullivan will also announce the new name of the 2010 Demonstration Project to be used during the Vancouver 2010 Winter Games.
> 
> The Mayor will be joined by executives representing the City’s modern vehicle provider and partner on this project - a leading company in the global rail sector - which will unveil the streetcar technology that will be used during the Vancouver 2010 Winter Games.
> Following the formal media conference, the City of Vancouver’s Director of Olympic Transportation Dale Bracewell will take interested media and guests on a guided walkabout tour of a portion of the rail alignment to be used during the 2010 Demonstration Project (about one block away from the media conference location).


From Rusty Gill of SSP


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## mr.x

a tad long topic title....


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## deasine

It was always that long... I can't fix that unfortunately.


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## mr.x

major update by *tafryn*
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/



2008-09-28 - Operations and Maintenance Centre


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## mr.x

major update by *tafryn*
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/



2008-09-28 - North Arm Bridge


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## mr.x

major update by *tafryn*
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/




2008-09-28 - Marine Drive Station



























































I am disappointed by this station.....the renderings had shown that it would have dark slanted cherry wood roof. This is just another IKEA station, like the other No.3 Road stations, except that there's no inversion in the middle.


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## spongeg

i don't see much problem with crowding - maybe when a bus comes but come on most of cambie is pretty dead its not dense at all (yet) even the whiny village is dead most of the time

its not like 100's of people are gonna show up every second of the day to ride the subway


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## mr.x

September 30 , 2008

*City of Vancouver and Bombardier Transportation announce Olympic Line modern streetcar service in 2010*

The City of Vancouver and Bombardier Transportation will provide a modern streetcar demonstration service to Vancouver residents and visitors during the Vancouver 2010 Winter Games, Vancouver Mayor Sam Sullivan and Bombardier Transportation President of Light Rail Vehicles Grego Peters announced today.

*The Downtown Streetcar 2010 Demonstration Project is a state-of-the-art, accessible and sustainable transportation project that will connect Granville Island to the Canada Line Olympic Village Station (Cambie Street and West 2nd Avenue) during 60 days of celebration between January 21 and March 21, 2010.*

As part of the partnership agreement, Bombardier Transportation will bring two modern streetcars on loan from Brussels, Belgium to Canada. Bombardier will also operate and maintain the vehicles during the demonstration project.

“As Host City of the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games, the City of Vancouver is delighted to be able to partner with Bombardier Transportation to offer a modern transportation experience,” said Sullivan. “This sustainable transportation showcase is an important first step in realizing our vision for the future of the streetcar – a clean, sustainable public transit option for which we believe the day has once again come.”

Sullivan also announced that the City of Vancouver has received permission from the International Olympic Committee and The Vancouver Organizing Committee for the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games to name operation of the streetcar service The Olympic Line – Vancouver’s 2010 Streetcar for the duration of the 2010 demonstration project.

“Vancouver’s Olympic Line will demonstrate a new mode of sustainable rail transportation in one of the world’s most progressive transit environments,” said Bombardier Transportation’s Grego Peters. “We are delighted to contribute to the Downtown Streetcar 2010 Demonstration Project and are eager to showcase our high-performing streetcars in Vancouver and to visitors from around the world.”

The City of Vancouver is investing $8.5 million to upgrade the Downtown Historic Railway (DHR) infrastructure, including a $500,000 contribution from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, which owns and operates Granville Island. This funding will be used to replace the aging and deteriorating DHR rail infrastructure between Granville Island and West 2nd Avenue. The investment creates the opportunity to demonstrate modern low-floor streetcar technology during the 2010 Winter Games while ensuring the continued future operation of the heritage railway after 2010, and making an investment in a future potential streetcar service along the alignment.






BERLIN, GERMANY -- 09/30/08 -- Bombardier Transportation announced today that it has signed a sponsorship agreement with the City of Vancouver to *provide up to two BOMBARDIER FLEXITY Outlook streetcars* for the City's Downtown Streetcar 2010 Demonstration Project during the Vancouver 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games. Bombardier will also provide operations and maintenance services for the two, 32-metre long vehicles during a 60-day period of passenger service.

*The FLEXITY Outlook streetcars will be on loan from the Brussels Transport Company (STIB)*, which operates a 68-vehicle fleet in Brussels, Belgium, previously supplied by Bombardier Transportation. In January 2008, STIB awarded Bombardier a contract for 87 additional FLEXITY Outlook vehicles. 

"*The Olympic Line* will provide a modern and exciting transportation experience that demonstrates the potential of a future Downtown Streetcar network for Vancouver," said Sam Sullivan, Mayor of Vancouver, B.C. "This sustainable transportation showcase is an important first step in realizing the City of Vancouver's vision for the future of the streetcar - a clean, sustainable public transit option for which we believe the day has once again 
come."

Mr. Grego Peters, President, Light Rail Vehicles, Bombardier Transportation, commented, "With sincere appreciation, we thank STIB, who made our sponsorship of the City of Vancouver possible." He added, "Vancouver's Olympic Line will demonstrate a new mode of sustainable rail transportation in one of the world's most progressive transit environments.


----------



## urbanfan89

Thankfully there are no federal dollars used, or else the line would have been called the Harper Line with a grinning picture of Steve on the side of the train.


----------



## Spam King

can't wait to see this get underway! i've been waiting YEARS!


----------



## vancouverite/to'er

PACIFIC BOULEVARD EXTENSION!!!!:cheers::banana::banana: No more C23!
Hopefully they'll extend it up Davie to Denman


----------



## Der Alte

Is this not the same model of streetcar that Bombardier is pitching for the Toronto order?

The "demonstration line" for the 60 day trial will likely be free. If the system was ever built, it would have to integrate with TransLink's fare structure. At $100 million the City of Vancouver won't have the cash to do it. They'll need a funding partner.

If they want Provincial or TransLink money, they'll probably have to go with a P3 if they want their line (unless the NDP hold their lead in the polls and actually pull off an upset in the next Provincial election). If Harper wins a majority, it wouldn't surprise me if that would be a string tied to Federal money as well. The city councillors can debate all they want about P3s, if they want partner money, it may be a pill they will have to swallow.


----------



## spongeg

*Streetcar of Sam's desire on track
*

Mayor hopes 2010 demonstration line will be a catalyst for a downtown network

_Derrick Penner, Vancouver Sun
Published: Wednesday, October 01, 2008_

VANCOUVER I Fifty years after the city's original streetcar network was paved over, the city has unveiled plans for the 60-day demonstration of a new streetcar line for the 2010 Olympics and Paralympics with an $8.5-million price tag.

The service, dubbed the Olympic Line (with International Olympic Committee approval), will run on streetcar units borrowed from the Brussels Transport Co. and provided under a sponsorship arrangement with Canadian transportation giant Bombardier, which is also a major sponsor of the 2010 Olympics.

It will run 1.8 kilometres, linking Granville Island and the new Canada Line's Olympic Village station on improved existing rail lines. In introducing the demonstration plan, Mayor Sam Sullivan said it will stand as an example of accessible, sustainable transportation.

Sullivan said he hopes the test will spur creation of the long-sought downtown streetcar network and serve as a legacy of the Olympics.

"This [demonstration] will get citizens excited about rail technology," Sullivan said, "and we have plans that ultimately the streetcar will go to the convention centre, Stanley Park and the north side of False Creek."

Sullivan said he has lobbied Ottawa for support of the streetcar on many occasions and has reminded Premier Gordon Campbell that Campbell himself started the push for new urban streetcars when he was Vancouver's mayor in the 1980s.

"It was kind of a fundraising pitch," he quipped, suggesting that it would be wise for the provincial and federal governments to sign on to "help finish the job that you started."

The streetcar system the city has proposed hasn't been costed out in detail, Sullivan said, but at an estimated $100 million, Vancouver would be looking for co-funders at a time when regional transportation authorities have multi-billion-dollar transportation plans in front of them.

The Olympics have been a "wonderful catalyst" for transportation innovation, according to Doug Kelsey, CEO of the TransLink subsidiary B.C. Rapid Transit Co. Ltd., which operates SkyTrain. "SkyTrain, at Expo 86 was a demonstration project," Kelsey said, "and look at it."

He said a Vancouver streetcar line will "have to earn its right into the overall network of regional transportation system. But [the demonstration] is a great way to start the conversation."

Kelsey said he doesn't view the proposed streetcar as competition to TransLink's priorities, which include building the Evergreen rapid transit line through the TriCities, extending SkyTrain and building a new rapid transit route to the University of B.C.

For 2010, however, Dale Bracewell, Vancouver's director of Olympic transportation, said the city will spend $8 million replacing 1.8 km of rail track and adding a section of passing track to allow for two-way service on the line as well as improving the overhead electrical service.

Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp., which operates Granville Island, will put an additional $500,000 into the project.

Bracewell said the improved track will also serve the historical downtown streetcar that runs on weekends in tourist season.

[email protected]

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/....html?id=20d00cff-b2e8-4338-be8c-c3aab46883d1

*'Getting citizens excited about rail technology'*

Mayor says $8-million streetcar project is start of great things to come

_Frank Luba, The Province
Published: Wednesday, October 01, 2008_

Walking by the tracks yesterday where Vancouver will demonstrate modern streetcars during the 2010 Winter Olympics, Tracy Arab gave the idea her support.

"It beats the bus," said the False Creek resident, who is a regular transit user. "I'd rather ride something like that than the city bus."

The city of Vancouver is spending $8 million on the demonstration project, refurbishing the power lines and tracks currently used by the Downtown Historic Railway and its heritage Interurban tram.

To be known as the Olympic Line, it will run from Granville Island to the Olympic Village station on the Canada Line at Cambie Street and West Second Avenue and operate from Jan. 21, 2010, to March 21, 2010.

Another $500,000 for the project is coming from the Canadian Housing and Mortgage Corp., which owns and operates Granville Island.

The two streetcars that will be used are being borrowed by manufacturer Bombardier from Brussels, which has 170 of the Flexity Outlook trams.

Each of the 32-metre-long electric trams carries 50 seated passengers and 128 standing passengers. It has a top speed of 70 km/h and costs about 2.3 million euros or $3.44 million Cdn.

Bombardier is spending about $2 million to bring the streetcars to Vancouver, as well as operating and maintaining them.

"This will get the citizens excited about rail technology," said Mayor Sam Sullivan. "We have plans that ultimately the streetcar will go out to the convention centre, to Stanley Park and the north side of False Creek, and perhaps right out to Vanier Park."

While not yet precisely budgeted, Sullivan said that project could cost "around $100 million."

Chris Arcari, who lives in Langley and spends three hours a day commuting to and from work near False Creek, would rather see $100 million go for other rail projects.

"Let's spend it to get people from the Fraser Valley into Vancouver in a more cost-effective, more eco-effective way," said Arcari, 51.

"There are still too many cars coming in."

[email protected]

http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html?id=696dc661-d29e-4c71-ac14-485cb266f39a


----------



## lightrail

Because the tram is designed for Bruxelles, the tram will be 2.3 metres wide (narrower than we're used to). The Flexity Outlook trams are modular and are heavily tailored to a city's needs. If Vancouver orders any, they would be 2.5 metres wide (same as North American bus). The demo line trams are going to look narrow to us. A tram running on a North American street would normally be 2.5 metres wide. Skytrain Mark II are 2.4 metres wide and the Canada Line is 3.0 metres wide.


----------



## mr.x

update by *tafryn*
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/


2008-10-01 - YVR Station - escalators are being installed


----------



## mr.x

A few more shots by *tafryn*
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/




2008-10-06 - YVR Station


















































2008-10-06 - Aberdeen Station


----------



## mr.x

A few more shots by *tafryn*
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/




2008-10-06 - Lansdowne Station



































































































































2008-10-06 - Richmond - Brighouse Station

















































































































































































The trains look quite a bit better when left unpainted.


----------



## bs_lover_boy

mr.x said:


> major update by *tafryn*
> http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/
> 
> 2008-09-28 - Operations and Maintenance Centre


^^
We can only imagine how it would be like when two 6 car trains pass by each other~!! :lol:


----------



## mr.x

^ i know, it's orgasmic.


----------



## mr.x

Update by *tafryn*:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/



2008-10-07 - Vancouver City Centre Station













































































2008-10-07 - Waterfront Station
































2008-10-08 - Broadway/City Hall Station


----------



## aznichiro115

bs_lover_boy said:


> ^^
> We can only imagine how it would be like when two 6 car trains pass by each other~!! :lol:


can the stations handle a 6 car train? from the ones i've seen in richmond, it seams like it could only handle 4


----------



## Der Alte

The stations can only hold two car trains. A three car train is possible in the future with the use of a very small 10 m C car in the middle, however many of the platforms would have to be lengthened to accommodate that. They are designed to make this small platform extension relatively easy however. Future demands for increased service will be dealt with mostly by more frequent service. Significantly longer trains will require extensive renovation of the system which probably won't happen until the current contract is up in 35 years time.


----------



## mr.x

updates by *tafryn:*
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/




2008-10-09 - Yaletown - Roundhouse Station


----------



## mr.x

Update by *tafryn:*
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/




2008-10-10 - YVR Station


----------



## mr.x

Update by *tafryn:*
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/



2008-10-10 - Sea Island Centre Station












































































































































































































The trains sure look better unpainted.


----------



## mr.x

Update by *tafryn:*
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/



2008-10-21 - Waterfront Station














































Station entrance


----------



## mr.x

Update by *tafryn:*
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/



2008-10-22 - Broadway/City Hall Station


----------



## deasine

More Canada Line changing colours:


























































Pictures by me


----------



## mr.x

Updates by *tafryn:*
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/



2008-10-27 - Bridgeport Station








































2008-10-27 - Middle Arm Bridge


----------



## mr.x

Updates by *tafryn:*
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/




2008-10-27 - Marine Drive Station


----------



## LosAngelesMetroBoy

i cant beleive they used pinspots to light the underside of the train. Flat out tackey, worthy of second rate productions. Or maybe it was just the anlge of the pics. Nice idea, from what ive seen bad execution.

But this is just from someone who soldeirs and sets up lighting for a living... i might be wrong.


----------



## SebaFun

Wonderful pics,realy wonderful


----------



## mr.x

LosAngelesMetroBoy said:


> i cant beleive they used pinspots to light the underside of the train. Flat out tackey, worthy of second rate productions. Or maybe it was just the anlge of the pics. Nice idea, from what ive seen bad execution.
> 
> But this is just from someone who soldeirs and sets up lighting for a living... i might be wrong.


It's not tacky at all...and that's probably just because of a poor angle.


Even at that, this was just a test lighting......the final effect will be something like this:


----------



## mr.x

New rendering of Lansdowne Station precinct














Updates by tafryn:




49th Avenue-Langara Station entrance
































































41st Avenue-Oakridge Station entrance


----------



## trainrover

mr.x said:


>


^^ Anybody else spy the world's most laughable fencing? hno:


----------



## Plumber73

trainrover said:


> ^^ Anybody else spy the world's most laughable fencing? hno:


Care to explain?


----------



## mr.x

trainrover said:


> ^^ Anybody else spy the world's most laughable fencing? hno:


What's wrong with the fencing?


----------



## LosAngelesMetroBoy

Thanks mr. X for showing me, they need to raise the light about 3 feet and angle it up more. I thought it was final instalation (ill admit in my civie job i did a half ass job like that and i knew it was bad). But its GREAT to see LED Color Changing Tech is catching on. Its a really cool effect and will add greatly to areas where nightlife picks up. We actually light one of our T-walls like that for our status at night. LED is the future man, and the more they use it the more the tech gets perfected. Lets get photovoltaic on the roofs and really get this green shit going.

And thanks for all the pics man, there great


----------



## trainrover

^ errr, nope.


----------



## Plumber73

Trainrover. You have a way with words, but I honestly don't understand half of what you are saying. And I think I speak for other people here... Turn off The Riddler switch and perhaps there can be some decent discussion. Otherwise, we'll be like WTF are you talking about???


----------



## deasine

Plumber73 said:


> Trainrover. You have a way with words, but I honestly don't understand half of what you are saying. And I think I speak for other people here... Turn off The Riddler switch and perhaps there can be some decent discussion. Otherwise, we'll be like WTF are you talking about???


It's worse than reading Shakespearean English.


----------



## trainrover

^^ I myself have never understood Shakespeare :nuts:​
^^ OK: let me see what I can do, alright? but I just can't bear reading habitually *unsubstantiated* _rah-rahing_, which brings out my over-the-top sarcasm. The fluffiness to others' habitual ravings, which - honestly - appears to be diminishing, makes me roll my eyes too often.


----------



## raggedy13

Plumber73 said:


> Turn off The Riddler switch


:lol: So true.

Here are some great finds by CLC on SSP:



CLC said:


> Notice some new Pics @ flickr
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/iwona_kellie/
> 
> Canada Line station @ Broadway and Cambie Street
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Canada Line station @ West King Edward Avenue


I think in the third photo you can see those funky orange/yellow tiles on the walls (with a protective lining over them) shown in some of the earlier station renderings:


----------



## van-island

$2300 seems a bit generous when TransLink is basically out of cash in the next few years.


----------



## deasine

trainrover said:


> ^^ I myself have never understood Shakespeare :nuts:​
> ^^ OK: let me see what I can do, alright? but I just can't bear reading habitually *unsubstantiated* _rah-rahing_, which brings out my over-the-top sarcasm. The fluffiness to others' habitual ravings, which - honestly - appears to be diminishing, makes me roll my eyes too often.


Obviously I was sarcastic about that.

How about try to speak normally so you don't attract negative attention and stop criticizing Vancouver like you have been doing for the past bit.


----------



## trainrover

deasine said:


> speak normally


SpeaK? It's called relating, which I love crafting...


----------



## zaphod

Trainrover, I take it you are a native French speaker and English is not your first language?


----------



## spongeg

Plumber73 said:


> Actually, from what I hear, Richmond could easily add another couple hundred thousand. I don't think the Arbutus line is a done deal yet, but that would be the logical thing to do when the Canada Line becomes overcrowded.


well yah but 10 years ago no one knew the RAV line would even exist

things can change

no one expected the expo line would basically be paralleled when the expo line was built in the 80's


----------



## Plumber73

spongeg said:


> well yah but 10 years ago no one knew the RAV line would even exist
> 
> things can change
> 
> no one expected the expo line would basically be paralleled when the expo line was built in the 80's


You are right. Things can change, but I don't see anything happening along Arbutus for awhile since we now have the Canada Line, and there are other more urgent upgrades/extensions that should be done. Before the Arbutus line even becomes a serious proposal, the first few phases of the downtown streetcar routes should be completed. And at this stage, were only doing a trial run from Olympic Village to Granville Island in 2010. I'm sure it'll happen eventually, but as of now there are no blue prints or contracts...


----------



## spongeg

oh yeah its decades off from happenning

but at least the arbutus corridor has to be used for transport as of the court ruling - they tried to sell it off so it could get developed for condos but the court said it was a transit corridor and would remain one


----------



## ssiguy2

Begs the question........why not extend them now? Its a lot cheaper for things to be done at once then as an add on later. That would require vision on Translink's part so I guess I answered my own question.


----------



## mr.x

ssiguy2 said:


> Begs the question........why not extend them now? Its a lot cheaper for things to be done at once then as an add on later. That would require vision on Translink's part so I guess I answered my own question.


Probably because the money is not there yet.


----------



## adrimm

spongeg said:


> oh yeah its decades off from happenning
> 
> but at least the arbutus corridor has to be used for transport as of the court ruling - they tried to sell it off so it could get developed for condos but the court said it was a transit corridor and would remain one


Good on the court. 

I admit I was a bit surprised when I read the RAV rfp.. it was for max caps of 15K ppdph - given that the route isn't burning new territory (ie not the boonies), I think that the next development wave (post Olympic?, 5 years out?) could bring immense development around the stations and really push ridership up - I'd love to spin forward 10 years and see what the ridership graph looks like. Depending on what Vancouver allows along the corridor, I'll bet it may be one of the fastest climbing ridership rates in the history of Canada. 

Speaking of future for Vancouver transit, wasn't there a feasability study being done on for the Broadway corridor? Is it done yet?


----------



## deasine

mr.x said:


> Probably because the money is not there yet.


No Sim City 4 Cheats? =(


----------



## mr.x

deasine said:


> No Sim City 4 Cheats? =(


CTRL ALT SHIFT X

weaknesspays
weaknesspays
weaknesspays


----------



## mr.x

Golden Ears Bridge: Electronic Tolling System


----------



## DKaz

mr.x said:


> CTRL ALT SHIFT X
> 
> weaknesspays
> weaknesspays
> weaknesspays


lol... something's wrong if you have to cheat for money in Simcity 4  ... though I do like the God-mode terraforming tools to add trees to reduce pollution without having to wait for years and years for seedlings to grow.


----------



## mr.x

^ yea, 15,000 pphpd is a lot. It's the same capacity the Expo Line runs today.


Updates by *tafryn*:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/



2008-11-23 - YVR Station 









































































































2008-11-21 - Olympic Village Station 































2008-11-21 - Broadway/City Hall Station


----------



## trainrover

Plumber73 said:


> relax!


Try telling that to its overseas passengers, not to me. Another thing, no matter the safety measure/s devised into the computerised operation, I could never comfortable with trains nearing as close as 75 metres to the ones in front of them...I doubt this practice is of much comfort to such visitors there either. As for your initial golden remark, I find Seattle's choice of local commuter rail the better mode of your networks.





mr.x said:


> single-tracking is only for the last 640-metres





adrimm said:


> rail - frequency


That's the irony, in that the last bit ain't gonna be double-tracked. This set-up's gonna interfere with the logistics such that frequency'll come last. Double-tracking a terminus is crucial, not merely incidental.


----------



## mr.x

trainrover said:


> That's the irony, in that the last bit ain't gonna be double-tracked. This set-up's gonna interfere with the logistics such that frequency'll come last. Double-tracking a terminus is crucial, not merely incidental.


If this were a manually driven system, it would be a problem. Being automated, it's hardly a problem at all. And a frequency of 2-3 minutes can still be maintained in the single-track section because of automation.


----------



## trainrover

mr.x said:


> hardly


There oughtta be no problem period. And this whole reliance on its automated attribute is like reckoning no creature's capable of telling when the --err-- relatively short block be occupied by another unit. hno:


----------



## mr.x

trainrover said:


> There oughtta be no problem period. And this whole reliance on its automated attribute is like reckoning no creature's capable of telling when the --err-- relatively short block be occupied by another unit. hno:


Oh please, automated systems are proven to be safer than manually driven ones. You're turning a molehill into a mountain with pure ignorance and arrogance.....in fact, there's no molehill to begin with.

The moving block automated system, which calculates a safe zone and speed between trains, is completely safe. And each train has two computers, which send each other the same information simulatenously. If any computer lags in sending information or sends the wrong information, the entire rail system shuts down as a safety precaution. There are many safety checks in the Seltrac automation system.

Not to mention that it's not totally automated, there are people staring at screens at the OMC and tracking the trains obviously.


----------



## trainrover

^^ You misread me, so why continue with you, right? hno:


----------



## Plumber73

trainrover said:


> me


That's it in a nutshell.


----------



## spongeg

mr.x said:


> Totally agree with you, that's one of my beefs with the Canada Line....the planned frequency (red=absolutely abysmal):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *INTIAL SERVICE PLAN in 2009/2010*
> 7-day frequency (32 vehicles/16 trains required)
> 
> Early Morning
> - Waterfront to Bridgeport: 6 minutes
> - Bridgeport to YVR: 12 minutes
> - Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 12 minutes
> 
> Morning Peak Period
> - Waterfront to Bridgeport: 3 mins 45 secs
> - Bridgeport to YVR: 7 mins 30 secs
> - Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 7 mins 30 secs
> 
> Mid-Day
> - Waterfront to Bridgeport: 3 mins 45 secs
> - Bridgeport to YVR: 7 mins 30 secs
> - Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 7 mins 30 secs
> 
> Afternoon Peak Period
> - Waterfront to Bridgeport: 3 mins 45 secs
> - Bridgeport to YVR: 7 mins 30 secs
> - Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 7 mins 30 secs
> 
> Evening
> *- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 6 minutes*
> *- Bridgeport to YVR: 12 minutes
> - Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 12 minutes*
> 
> Late Night
> *- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 10 minutes
> - Bridgeport to YVR: 20 minutes
> - Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 20 minutes*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *SERVICE PLAN (will kick in when line gets busier)*
> 7-day frequency (36 vehicles/18 trains required)
> 
> Early Morning
> - Waterfront to Bridgeport: 6 minutes
> - Bridgeport to YVR: 12 minutes
> - Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 12 minutes
> 
> Morning Peak Period
> - Waterfront to Bridgeport: 3 minutes 10 secs
> - Bridgeport to YVR: 6 minutes 20 secs
> - Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 6 minutes 20 secs
> 
> Mid-Day
> - Waterfront to Bridgeport: 3 minutes 10 secs
> - Bridgeport to YVR: 6 minutes 20 secs
> - Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 6 minutes 20 secs
> 
> Afternoon Peak Period
> - Waterfront to Bridgeport: 3 minutes 10 secs
> - Bridgeport to YVR: 6 minutes 20 secs
> - Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 6 minutes 20 secs
> 
> Late Night
> *- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 10 minutes
> - Bridgeport to YVR: 20 minutes
> - Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 20 minutes*


whats the m line?

i've waited for a good 15 minutes or more at night to get from brentwood to lougheed

thats why i drive i can be home before a train even shows up


----------



## mr.x

spongeg said:


> whats the m line?
> 
> i've waited for a good 15 minutes or more at night to get from brentwood to lougheed
> 
> thats why i drive i can be home before a train even shows up


*Expo Line (Waterfront to King George)*
- Peak hours: 2-4 minutes
- Mid-day and evenings: 6-minutes
- Late-night: 8-minutes
- Saturday/Sunday: 6-8 minutes

*Millennium Line (Waterfront to VCC)*
- Peak hours: 5-6 minutes
- Mid-day and evenings: 6-minutes
- Late-night: 8-minutes
- Saturday/Sunday: 6-8 minutes

*Combined Service (Waterfront to Columbia)*
- Peak hours: 2-3 minutes
- Mid-day and evenings: 3-minutes
- Late-night: 4-minutes
- Saturday/Sunday: 3-4 minutes



Like I said, late-night frequency on the Canada Line is ridiculous.


----------



## mr.x

More updates by *tafryn*:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/2008/12/2008-12-04-yvr-station.html



2008-12-04 - YVR Station




































































2008-12-04 - Sea Island Centre Station


----------



## trainrover

Plumber73, me beats being piped down some tube...


----------



## G5man

20 minute frequency late night! Even Seattle Central Link will be doing 15 minute frequency late night!


----------



## Plumber73

Good thing it's only the initial service plan. What time is late night?


----------



## deasine

I'm guessing 12:00


----------



## mr.x

G5man said:


> 20 minute frequency late night! Even Seattle Central Link will be doing 15 minute frequency late night!


I know! And their system uses drivers, which is more expensive and not as flexible as automated!


----------



## mr.x

more updates by *tafryn:*
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com



2008-12-15 - Middle Arm Bridge 
















































2008-12-15 - YVR Station


----------



## Homer J. Simpson

Steve Munro made an entry about the Skytrain in his blog.

It is a good read.

http://stevemunro.ca/?p=1544


----------



## Falubaz

I missed this thread for some reason - dunno actyually why?
I was always in love with Vancouver and with the Skytrain...
...but after having seen all those pics - it's just nothing else but extasy! 
Love Skytrain!


----------



## trainrover

Songoten2554 said:


> thats why vancouver was chosen for the Winter olympics for 2010 good economy, great public transportation options and more options, walk friendly places and such like that.
> 
> its great that Vancouver has the longest Automated Rapid Transit in the world and will continue to have more with the new green line that will be another skytrain as well.


_Oh really? _With which other communities are you comparing these marvels of that city? You write that about a nation that possesses neither a transport nor a housing policy...


----------



## mr.x

*Transportation minister expects fast track for Evergreen Line*

By Kelly Sinoski
December 15, 2008 9:01 PM

METRO VANCOUVER - *Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon is optimistic the $1.4-billion Evergreen Line will be one of the projects to be accelerated under a federal government scheme to stimulate the economy and create jobs in 2009-10.*

The 11-kilometre rapid transit line, which would link Burnaby, Port Moody and Coquitlam, is part of the B.C. government's wish list presented to federal Transport Minister John Baird, who was in Vancouver Monday to meet with Falcon, Premier Gordon Campbell and premiers from Alberta, Manitoba and Saskatchewan.

Baird will meet premiers of the Atlantic provinces today, then Ontario's premier. The aim, he said, is to hear what projects are ready to go and determine how government can cut red tape and change policy to speed things up.

Projects could range from the Evergreen Line to broadband for rural communities, wastewater treatment plans and ring roads in Alberta, he said. Smaller projects would provide a huge boon to municipalities, he said.

"The prime minister has given me a mandate to make things happen," Baird told The Sun in an interview Sunday. "The Evergreen Line is supposedly in the planning stage. That's understandably one of the biggest projects we're working on with B.C. We'll be looking at what we can do to speed things up."

Falcon said Monday the province is in negotiations with the federal government for funding for the project. It plans to open a construction office in January ahead of signing off on the deal.

The B.C. government has already committed $410 million and TransLink $400 million to the long-awaited Evergreen Line so the federal funding is the "missing piece," Falcon said.

The federal government, which is required to pay a third of the project, has provided $67 million so far and Falcon said he's confident Ottawa will match Victoria's contribution. That would leave the project $200 million short, which Falcon has previously suggested would likely be covered by a private-sector partner. The Evergreen line is expected to be completed in 2014.

Without federal funding, the project is at risk of being scrapped as TransLink struggles to boost revenues to maintain the status quo by 2011.

Falcon wouldn't say what other projects B.C. is pitching for fast-track funding, but noted there is still work to do on plans to replace the aging Pattullo Bridge in Surrey and to extend the Expo and Millennium lines to Guildford and UBC before they are eligible for fast-tracking.

Port Moody Mayor Joe Trasolini said he's been told since spring that the funding has been approved and will wait to see what happens. "I'm not getting encouraged and over-excited with promises any more," he said.

[email protected]
© Copyright © The Vancouver Sun


----------



## Brit Rail Man

*Switch Rail Heating*

What kind of points heating system is being used to prevent the switches from freezing up now that we are getting into the winter season ?.
Is it something similar to what we use in the U.K.


----------



## Gil

deasine said:


> Renouncing.


:nuts: So the Feds are announcing that they're taking back the money?!?! I assume you both meant reannouncing.


----------



## deasine

Yes that's what I meant XD


----------



## hinto

deasine said:


> [*]New Colour Livery and Design that reflects the current bus designs. This design will make the trains look less dirty (compared to the current Mark II vehicles).


I can see their point (and it's generally why I tend to not wear white), but I still think the trains look better in white.


----------



## mr.x

More updates by *Tafryn:*
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/




2009-01-15 - Broadway/City Hall Station
















































2009-01-16 - Waterfront Station 


















Waterfront Station entrance - street level


----------



## ssiguy2

When coming in from White Rock on highway #99 I noticed that they have already begun construction on the bus-only nothbound lanes starting at Westminster Highway.......its coming along much faster than I thought. I still haven't found a map/info about where it is to go and how it will deal with merging northbound traffic. Any info?


----------



## spongeg

*Two SkyTrain stations closed after body found on tracks*

The Commercial Drive and VCC Clark SkyTrain stations are closed until further notice after an accident on the tracks tonight.


TransLink spokesman Drew Snider said a body was found on the tracks under the articulated joint of a two-car train at 8:20 p.m. The cause of the incident is not known.


"We don't know anything yet," Snider said.

Millennium Line is running "segregated" service from Expo Line right now is only going between Columbia and Renfrew. Those going from M-Line to E-Line need to transfer at Columbia. 


A bus bridge is set up connecting VCC Clark, Commercial and Renfrew. Customers at Renfrew may use bus bridge or take the #16 bus to 29th Ave. station and take SkyTrain from there.


The incident is under investigation. 

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/SkyTrain+stations+closed+after+body+found+tracks/1299732/story.html


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## LosAngelesMetroBoy

anything new going on with this, or is it pretty much done.


----------



## spongeg

lots going on still

there was something in the news that a local juice chain has won the rights or whatever to open in all the underground stations along the line

More pics by Tafryn
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/

2009-02-16 - Lansdowne Station

















































































2009-02-16 - North Arm Bridge













































2009-02-16 - Richmond - Brighouse Station


----------



## raggedy13

A few pictures I took yesterday at 3 of the Expo Line stations:

Stadium-Chinatown


















Main Street-Science World


















Broadway/Commercial


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## Daguy

^^

Love those aerial shots of the North Arm Bridge. I can't wait til when I move back to Vancouver in May and check things out again.


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## ssiguy2

It happens in every transit system in the world^. 

I REALLY like the new SkyTrain cars. I like the white ones but they get dirty so fast they always look grubby. 

Hey, there is a whole lot of open houses about how the new SkyTrain Canada Line will effect bus connections to the system specifically south of Brideport for suburban commuters like from WR & Ladner. Did you notice what I said...........it was a "SkyTrain" bus integration meeting. Until recently I wasn't sure if they would actually say the Canada Line was part of the SkyTrain system or a new system on a transit system map. 
Its an excellent idea. Many cities have , for example, different systems like Paris rubber or steel trains but they are all considered as the Metro. 
I've been on HWY #99 recently and they have really progressed on the bus-only northbound lanes on HWY#99. I'm not sure how exactly it will work as there will be right lane car mergers...........have to wait and see.


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## deasine

Yeah they call the Canada Line SkyTrain all the time... funny thing even TransLink does it. In the legal books, it isn't because SkyTrain or BC Rapid Transit Company isn't operating the Canada Line, but instead inTransitBC. At this point, it doesn't really matter.


----------



## deasine

> Cascadia high-speed rail: It's time
> by Brad Perkins, guest opinion, The Oregonian
> Thursday February 26, 2009, 12:00 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's time to take steps to implement Cascadia high-speed rail between Eugene and Vancouver, B.C. High-speed rail would be faster and more comfortable than automobile or short-distance air travel. This new electrically powered, double-track rail line would move people and freight at least 110 miles per hour and avoid all grade and river traffic interruptions.
> 
> The extra benefit to high-speed rail in Portland is the addition of a new east-bank high-tech passenger rail station on Paul Allen's and the city's property along the Willamette River across from Memorial Coliseum. The new Rose Garden Transit/Tourism Station's main pedestrian entrance would be central to the MAX light-rail center, planned bicycle paths and future streetcar stops. This new activity hub would spur economic growth to help justify financing a new outdoor entertainment center, a Veterans Memorial Baseball Stadium, hotels and restaurants.
> 
> Vancouver, Wash., citizens would greatly benefit because the new multi-track high-speed rail could act as a commuter alternative as well. From a new park-and-ride stop from Vancouver's Northwest 39th near the I-5 exit to the new Rose Garden Transit Station by high-speed rail would take seven minutes. From Portland to Eugene, it would take 75 minutes.
> 
> Federal investment in high-speed rail would benefit both freight operation and passenger service. Freight rail companies see the advantages in cooperation. The new interstate rail freeway for freight and passengers would have double tracks, concrete tie base and new high-grade steel rails. Existing rail right of way would be used where practical. Tunnels, elevated tracks, bridges and earth cuts would avoid unreasonable curves, elevations, roads and waterways.
> 
> On a national level, American citizens think that developing high-speed rail corridors would create thousands of jobs, reduce road congestion and pollution, and improve freight capacity, business productivity and energy conservation. In the Nov. 30, 2008, issue of Parade magazine, people were asked if they preferred cash rebates to repairing our nation's infrastructure. Sixty-seven percent of Americans preferred focusing on infrastructure improvements that develop faster and better trains.
> 
> The $787 billion economic recovery bill signed by President Barack Obama on Feb. 17 dedicates $8 billion to high-speed rail. Obama wants to make high-speed rail a signature achievement of his presidency. He said, "The time is right for us to start thinking about high-speed rail as an alternative to air transportation connecting all these cities. Think about what a great project that would be in terms of rebuilding America."
> 
> Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood is working with the White House to jump-start high-speed rail nationally. The Eugene to Vancouver, B.C., corridor is one of 11 corridors designated for possible high-speed rail development. There is much to be done regionally before LaHood assigns priority funding for the engineering and development of the Cascadia high-speed rail line.
> 
> Rep. Peter DeFazio and Sen. Ron Wyden have been most helpful in emphasizing the need for the Cascadia line. State Rep. Chip Shields and I have worked together on a bill to be introduced in the Oregon House to form a High-Speed Railway Task Force. It would coordinate with high-speed rail efforts in Washington and British Columbia to determine potential corridor route, economic impact, investment opportunities, freight and passenger capacity, etc.
> 
> Let the Northwest lead America toward a greener 21st century.


Source: Brad Perkins, Oregon Live


----------



## Nutterbug

^ Nice thought, but I don't think we have the critical mass necessary to justify a high speed intercity rail. The money's better put towards local rail transit, and maybe to straighten out some sections of track to enable the existing Talgo trainsets to run at full speed.


----------



## deasine

Well if all governments pay a portion of this (US pay more *winks*), this would be way worth it. The problem is how should this be done in Vancouver because the rail infrastructure between the border to Vancouver won't take full advantage of the high speed rail vehicles.


----------



## Yellow Fever

It would be an expensive project, that's for sure!


----------



## Nutterbug

The Talgos used for the Amtrak Cascades are capable of running the Vancouver-Seattle stretch in two hours over straight track, aren't they? That seems more than adequate for the population of the area and the amount of traffic between the two cities.


----------



## G5man

That is if you have rail that can handle 110 mph. Meaning South Delta-North Bellingham, South Bellingham-Everett would need to be straightened out. They will be able to do 2 hours 45 minutes on 110 mph with the current equipment if the Vancouver terminus was relocated to Scott Road, probably 3 hours to go to Pacific Central.

I hear a replacement for the Fraser River rail bridge would cost $600 million but I think it is justified for high-speed operations in the future. The Talgos could handle 124 mph but would require different locomotives.


----------



## deasine

*[Vancouver] Evergreen Line: Fast, Frequent, Convenient*












> *What is the Evergreen Line Project?*
> The Evergreen Line is a new rapid transit line that connects Coquitlam Town Centre to Vancouver via Port Moody and Burnaby, starting at Lougheed Town Centre Station in Burnaby and ending near Douglas College in Coquitlam.
> 
> The Evergreen Line will be a fast, frequent and convenient SkyTrain service, connecting Coquitlam Town Centre through Port Moody to Lougheed Town Centre in approximately 13 minutes. The Evergreen Line will seamlessly connect to the current SkyTrain network, including the Expo, Millennium and Canada Lines, and will integrate with regional bus and West Coast Express networks.
> 
> The Evergreen Line is an essential element of The Provincial Transit Plan and the federal Building Canada Plan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Route Alignment*
> The Evergreen Line will run north from Lougheed Town Centre on an elevated track along North and Clarke Roads, before entering a tunnel in the vicinity of Como Lake Avenue and emerging near Barnet Highway north of Clarke Road in Port Moody. Through Port Moody, the route will travel at-grade on the south side of the Canadian Pacific (CP) Rail lines before transitioning to the north side near the Port Moody/Coquitlam boundary. The Evergreen Line will continue next to the CP Rail lines to the West Coast Express Station in Coquitlam and will then run on an elevated track along Pinetree Way, ending near Douglas College in Coquitlam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Stations*
> The Evergreen Line will have six primary stations: Lougheed, Burquitlam, Port Moody/West Coast Express, Ioco, Coquitlam/West Coast Express and Coquitlam City Hall/Douglas College.
> 
> These stations will drive system ridership growth by serving major destinations, connecting existing population and employment centers, and integrating with the existing transit network.
> 
> These station locations will promote use by ensuring the line is fast, convenient and competitive with other travel choices.
> 
> Up to two additional station locations along the Evergreen Line may be considered based on their ability to shape land use, stimulate increased system ridership through transit oriented development, and be affordable.
> 
> *Project Goals*
> 
> Provide fast, frequent and convenient rapid transit from Coquitlam to Vancouver
> via Port Moody and Burnaby
> 
> Provide rapid transit for the communities of Burnaby, Vancouver, New Westminster, Coquitlam, Port Moody, Port Coquitlam, Anmore and Belcarra
> 
> Improve the transportation network throughout Metro Vancouver
> 
> Integrate travel modes and provide connectivity to the wider transit network
> Seamlessly connect with the current SkyTrain network
> 
> Increase transportation choice
> 
> Support a reduction in auto use by providing an alternative to single occupancy vehicles
> Increase transit mode share
> Increase transit capacity in the Northeast sector
> Ensure speed and reliability of the system
> Support growth management
> 
> Support municipal growth management targets established by the region’s Livable Region Strategic Plan
> 
> Contribute to community building by stimulating future concentrated and mixed-use development
> Support existing development and provide support for a positive business environment
> 
> Support environmental sustainability initiatives
> 
> Support provincial environmental goals by reducing regional car trips
> Meet regional and local environmental objectives to preserve green space
> Encourage pedestrian traffic along corridor


Source: Evergreen Line Website, Ministry of Transportation












> PROJECT OFFICE OPENING LAUNCHES EVERGREEN LINE
> COQUITLAM – Construction of the Evergreen Line is taking a major step forward with the opening of the Evergreen Line Project Office, announced Transportation and Infrastructure Minister Kevin Falcon, federal Canadian Heritage and Official Languages Minister James Moore and TransLink CEO
> Tom Prendergast today.
> 
> “The Evergreen Line will vastly improve transit options for people in Metro Vancouver’s northeast quadrant,” said Falcon. “It will also be a big boost to the region’s economy, providing over 8,000 direct and indirect jobs.”
> 
> “The Evergreen Sky Train extension will improve the quality of life of Tri-City residents by creating more transportation choices, cutting traffic, and by reducing pollution,” said Moore. “Our government is proud to be a partner in this project.”
> 
> Using SkyTrain technology, the 11-kilometre Evergreen Line will link neighbourhoods in Burnaby, Port Moody and Coquitlam and be fully integrated into the existing system, connecting directly onto the Millennium Line at Lougheed Station.
> 
> “Not only is the Tri-Cities area growing, we know that it’s the destination for a third of the commuters that today drive across the Port Mann Bridge from the South of Fraser,” said Prendergast.
> 
> “The Evergreen Line, linking to a new RapidBus service from Highway 1 at the Lougheed Station, has huge potential to attract substantial numbers of people from cars to rapid transit.”
> 
> The Evergreen Line will provide fast and frequent service to downtown Vancouver – improving the transit network throughout Metro Vancouver and facilitating economic growth and regional job creation. The Project Office will advance the Evergreen Line Project through design and construction
> and will provide the public with the opportunity to learn more about the project, meet with staff, and give feedback and input as design and construction proceeds. Construction of the Evergreen Line is scheduled to begin in late 2010 and be completed in late 2014.
> 
> The Evergreen Line is jointly funded by the Government of Canada (up to $416.7 million), the Government of British Columbia ($410 million) and TransLink ($400 million). Approximately $350 million of the federal contribution is from the Building Canada Fund. The $1.4-billion project is a key component of the Provincial Transit Plan.


Source: The Government of British Columbia - http://evergreenline.gov.bc.ca/documents/NewsReleases/nr_ELPO_final_Feb28_09.pdf

*Video Articles*
Global TV BC: http://canwest.a.mms.mavenapps.net/...8e60a971d5a69e38&maven_referralObject=3738868


----------



## davsot

Yea! More SkyTrain! How are the ridership levels? I've been waiting for some sort of expansion for a while now...


----------



## deasine

I was too lazy to go through them LMAO. Sorry ^___^


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## JustinB

Must make a trip to Vancouver when that line opens!


----------



## Allen2

> *TransLink picks new top planner*
> 
> Michael Shiffer will be the new vice-president of planning for TransLink.
> 
> Surrey Leader
> 
> Published: April 09, 2009 1:00 PM
> Updated: April 09, 2009 1:16 PM
> 
> TransLink has again turned to the U.S. to fill a hole in its top executive ranks.
> 
> Michael Shiffer will be the new vice-president of planning, effective May 4.
> 
> He comes to TransLink from Chicago, where he is professor of urban planning and policy at the University of Illinois and served for the previous six years as vice-president of planning and development at the Chicago Transit Authority, the second-largest transit system in the U.S.
> 
> TransLink CEO Tom Prendergast, who came here from New Jersey last summer, also studied at the University of Illinois and worked at the Chicago Transit Authority.
> 
> Shiffer takes over planning duties from TransLink vice-president Sheri Plewes, who had taken that role in addition to overseeing engineering and capital management after the retirement of former planning vice-president Glen Leicester.
> 
> Shiffer arrives as TransLink struggles to decide how aggressively it will expand transit and transportation infrastructure over the next 10 years – and how any expansion will be financed.
> 
> His research has often involved information technology and he counts himself as a fan of smart cards for payment – which dovetails with TransLink's current plan to bring in such a system.
> 
> He predicted in a recent U.S. public radio interview that transit is poised to improve dramatically, even in areas where car culture has dominated.
> 
> "It is very difficult in this day and age to build new superhighways in dense urban environments," he said. "So we have to think of alternatives otherwise we're going to be very constricted by congestion."
> 
> He also likes the use of park and rides to steer suburban motorists onto transit.
> 
> Prendergast, in a recent interview, told Black Press the region needs much more park and ride space.
> 
> "We're on the real low end of the scale," he said, adding it's worthwhile to intercept as many motorists as possible and get them onto transit, even for part of their journey.
> 
> Audio online
> 
> Listen to a December, 2008 interview with Michael Shiffer by Chicago Public Radio.
> 
> http://www.chicagopublicradio.org/co...?audioID=30594


http://www.bclocalnews.com/surrey_ar.../42760022.html


----------



## mr.x

*[Vancouver] SkyTrain Canada Line (19 kms, Airport to Downtown) - Opening Sept. 7, 2009*

I think we're in need of a new topic, the old one is getting too garbled up...the project is largely finished, here's the old topic: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=460966


*SkyTrain Canada Line*

The Canada Line, formerly known as the Richmond-Airport-Vancouver Rapid Transit Rail Line ("RAV Line"), is a new 19-km automated rapid transit line of the Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority (TransLink) currently under construction. The line is being built and will be operated by a private sector engineering firm, SNC-Lavalin (InTransitBC), for 35 years.

The line will be the third for Vancouver, Canada and will be added to the existing rapid transit system but will not use linear induction motor technology, rather standard third rail technology. Despite the fact the line will use different technology, it is unclear whether or not it will be branded "SkyTrain" as the other two existing lines.

The Canada Line will connect downtown Vancouver to the Vancouver International Airport and Richmond City Centre in time for the 2010 Winter Olympics. The line is expected to carry 100,000 passengers per day at launch on September 2009.






















*ROUTE*

The Vancouver section of the line will run underground from Waterfront Station, with a cut-and-cover tunnel under Granville Street between Hastings and Dunsmuir and a bored tunnel under Granville and Davie Street and False Creek to the 2nd Avenue station on Cambie Street, where it will run as a cut-and-cover tunnel as far as 64th Avenue with the two directions either side-by-side or stacked on separate decks.

From there, the line will be elevated, crossing the North Arm of the Fraser River via a new cable-stayed bridge. At the proposed Bridgeport Station, the line would split, with the main line heading south on an elevated track along Number 3 Road to Richmond City Centre. A branch line will cross the Middle Arm of the Fraser River, connecting Bridgeport Station to stations on Sea Island and terminating at Vancouver International Airport. Portions of the airport branch will be at-grade in order to accommodate a future elevated taxiway for aircraft over the line. In addition, 400 metres of the final segments of the Richmond and Airport branches are single-tracked instead of double tracked to cut project costs and to appease Richmond City Council, which considered the overhead line an eyesore and had been fighting for an at-grade line.

- Elevated: ~7 kms
- At-grade: ~1.7 kms
- Bored tunnel: ~ 2.5 kms
- Cut & cover tunel: ~8 kms
TOTAL: 19 kms

Travel times southbound from downtown Vancouver will be 25 minutes to Richmond Centre and 26 minutes to the airport terminus. Northbound, trains will leave Richmond City Centre and YVR every six minutes heading to Vancouver. The departures will be coordinated to allow for a train every three minutes on the main line in Vancouver.

- Richmond frequency: ~6 minutes
- Airport frequency: ~6 minutes
- Combined Vancouver frequency: ~3 minutes

Bridges
- North Arm Fraser River Bridge
- Middle Arm Fraser River Bridge





*FREQUENCY*


INTIAL SERVICE PLAN in 2009/2010
7-day frequency (32 vehicles/16 trains required)

Early Morning
- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 6 minutes
- Bridgeport to YVR: 12 minutes
- Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 12 minutes

Morning Peak Period
- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 3 mins 45 secs
- Bridgeport to YVR: 7 mins 30 secs
- Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 7 mins 30 secs

Mid-Day
- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 3 mins 45 secs
- Bridgeport to YVR: 7 mins 30 secs
- Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 7 mins 30 secs

Afternoon Peak Period
- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 3 mins 45 secs
- Bridgeport to YVR: 7 mins 30 secs
- Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 7 mins 30 secs

Evening
- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 6 minutes
- Bridgeport to YVR: 12 minutes
- Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 12 minutes

Late Night
- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 10 minutes
- Bridgeport to YVR: 20 minutes
- Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 20 minutes

SERVICE PLAN (will kick in when line gets busier)
7-day frequency (36 vehicles/18 trains required)

Early Morning
- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 6 minutes
- Bridgeport to YVR: 12 minutes
- Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 12 minutes

Morning Peak Period
- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 3 minutes 10 secs
- Bridgeport to YVR: 6 minutes 20 secs
- Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 6 minutes 20 secs

Mid-Day
- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 3 minutes 10 secs
- Bridgeport to YVR: 6 minutes 20 secs
- Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 6 minutes 20 secs

Afternoon Peak Period
- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 3 minutes 10 secs
- Bridgeport to YVR: 6 minutes 20 secs
- Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 6 minutes 20 secs

Late Night
- Waterfront to Bridgeport: 10 minutes
- Bridgeport to YVR: 20 minutes
- Bridgeport to Richmond Centre: 20 minutes





*STATIONS*

Stations are proposed to be built in two stages: 16 stations will be built for the line's projected opening prior to the 2010 Winter Olympics, with up to three additional stations being added after the line opens. Stations platforms will range from 40 and 50 metres in length. Stations that are 40 metres are expandable to 50 metres. The proposed stations are listed below.

Vancouver
- Waterfront (connection to Expo and Millennium Lines, West Coast Express and SeaBus) - 50 metres
- Vancouver City Centre (Granville Street at Robson Street) - 50 metres
- Yaletown-Roundhouse (Davie Street near Mainland Street) - 40 metres
- Olympic Village (Vancouver 2010 Olympic Village, SouthEast False Creek, Granville Island) - 40 metres
- Broadway-City Hall (Cambie Street at West Broadway) - 50 metres
- King Edward (Cambie Street at King Edward Avenue) - 40 metres
- Oakridge-41st Avenue (Cambie Street at West 41st Avenue, next to Oakridge Centre) - 50 metres
- Langara-49th Avenue (Cambie Street at West 49th Avenue) - 40 metres
- Marine Drive (Cambie Street at Southwest Marine Drive) - 40 metres

Richmond
- Bridgeport (north of Bridgeport Road in Richmond; major transit exchange for suburban buses; new 1,000 car park and ride; link to Airport branch) - 40 metres
- Aberdeen (No. 3 Road at Cambie Road) - 40 metres
- Lansdowne (No. 3 Road at Lansdowne Road; 2-3 blocks away from the Richmond Olympic Oval speed skating venue) - 40 metres
- Richmond-Brighouse (No. 3 Road at Cook Road, adjacent to the Richmond Centre shopping mall) - 50 metres

Vancouver International Airport
- Templeton (to be located north of Grant McConachie Way, near Templeton Street) - 40 metres
- Sea Island Centre (to be located on Grant McConachie Way, near the Air Canada service centre) - 40 metres
- YVR-Airport Terminal (adjacent to the main terminal of Vancouver International Airport) - 50 metres

Future stations post-2010
- 33rd Avenue (Cambie Street at West 33rd Avenue, next to Queen Elizabeth Park in Vancouver)
- 57th Avenue (Cambie Street at West 57th Avenue in Vancouver)
- Capstan Way (No. 3 Road at Capstan Way in Vancouver)
- YVR-3 (Vancouver International Airport future terminal expansion)

Station architects
- Segment One: Downtown (Waterfront, Vancouver City Centre and Yaletown-Roundhouse Stations) – VIA Architecture & PBK;
- Segment Two: North Cambie (Olympic Village and Broadway-City Hall Stations) – Stantec;
- Segment Three: Central Cambie (King Edward, Oakridge-41st Avenue and Langara-49th Avenue Stations) – Hotson Bakker Boniface Haden;
- Segment Four: Fraser River (Marine Drive and Bridgeport Stations) – VIA Architecture & PBK;
- Segment Five: No 3 Road (Aberdeen, Lansdowne and Richmond-Brighouse Stations) – Busby Perkins Will;
- Segment Six: Sea Island (Templeton Station, Sea Island Centre Stations) – Walter Francl;
- Segment Seven: Sea Island/Terminal (YVR-Airport Station) – Kasian Architects.



*TECHNOLOGY
*
The Canada Line will not use the proprietary Bombardier Advanced Rapid Transit linear induction technology, but rather another fully automated transit vehicle using more conventional motors than the linear induction motor used in trains on the Expo and Millennium lines. The Request For Proposals also required that the system have an ultimate capacity of 15,000 pphpd (leaving the choice of technology and platform length to the proponent) and required a maximum travel time between YVR and downtown Vancouver of 24 minutes. The new line will also be automated like the other two existing lines.




*
COST*

CAN$2.05 BILLION
- Government of Canada: $300 million
- Government of British Columbia: $400 million
- Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority (Translink): $400 million
- Vancouver International Airport: $250 million
- InTransitBC (SNC-Lavalin; private sector): $650+ million


----------



## Overground

Skytrainkay: good on ya.


----------



## mr.x

This is *Lansdowne Station,* pictures taken by me yesterday at the open house.


----------



## mr.x




----------



## Allen2

*NEWS RELEASE: Surrey Leader*



> *Demonstrators hit highway for light rail*
> Apr 7, 2009
> 
> Advocates of a light rail line to the Fraser Valley are planning a mass protest against the province’s pricey plan to build a new 10-lane Port Mann Bridge.
> 
> *The “day of action” is set for Saturday, April 11 *and organizers with the group Rail For The Valley intend to place banner-waving demonstrators on overpasses overlooking Highway 1 from West Vancouver to Chilliwack.
> 
> “We think the Port Mann Bridge project is a lot of money being spent on a bridge that’s not going to do anything for the light rail needs of the Fraser Valley,” said Rail For The Valley spokesman John Buker.
> 
> *“People are asking for an alternative to driving their cars and we haven’t seen anything from the government.”*
> 
> The cost of the combined Port Mann replacement and Highway 1 corridor widening has escalated from a previous $1.7 billion to $2.46 billion. Once financing and maintenance costs over the life of the project are included, the total bill is estimated at $3.1 billion.
> 
> *“You could have an extensive light rail network for a fraction of the cost all the way out to Chilliwack,” Buker said. “You could build new light rail all through Surrey and Langley.”*
> 
> He said the province shouldn’t try to spend its way out of the recession by tearing down the existing Port Mann Bridge.
> 
> Buker is hoping for hundreds of protesters lining the highway between 11 a.m. and 1 p.m. on the protest day.
> 
> *“South of the Fraser will be saying no to second-class transit and the government preoccupation with road building to the exclusion of light rail.”*
> The group is also concerned about what it sees as the province’s bias in favour of more expensive SkyTrain technology that runs either above or below traffic.
> 
> UBC professor Patrick Condon estimates a $3-billion-plus investment could instead produce an extensive 200-kilometre network of light rail trams south of the Fraser.
> 
> *Condon has generated maps showing such a network could place tram lines within a 10-minute walk of 80 per cent of the residents in Surrey, White Rock, Langley and parts of North Delta.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A deluxe light rail line running to Chilliwack could have been built for half the price of the new Canada Line, according to Rail For The Valley.
> 
> The group argues a service could be started quickly on the old Interurban rail line.
> 
> While a light rail line could eventually run over the new Port Mann Bridge, it’s not in the initial plan.
> 
> *“If light rail is not on the bridge by 2013 when it opens I don’t think it will ever be added to the bridge,” Buker said, predicting the government will never take away lanes from regular traffic for transit service.*
> 
> The provincial government has launched a detailed study of future transit needs in the Fraser Valley, but findings aren’t expected to be released before next month’s election.
> 
> Bog pilgrimage planned
> 
> A second anti-Gateway event is also in the works, this time targeted against the South Fraser Perimeter Road and its impacts on Burns Bog.
> 
> Described as a “pilgrimage,” churches and spiritual groups from across Metro Vancouver are expected to march to the bog on April 26.
> 
> The 40-kilometre truck freeway got environmental approval from the province despite persistent fears the bog’s drainage will be disrupted.


http://www.bclocalnews.com/surrey_area/aldergrovestar/news/42637837.html


----------



## city_thing

Those trains look so fresh and clean. If only they could stay like that for ever...


----------



## LosAngelesMetroBoy

please tell me the chain link is not permanant. It looks like a very ghetto version of platform doors.


----------



## Plumber73

^^What do you think? 

Of course they'll get removed.


----------



## spongeg

it was nice in person - should be neat to ride


----------



## zivan56

Fence is there to make sure full train testing can occur while the stations are being constructed...


----------



## Vanman

And the stupidest post of the year goes to ..................




> please tell me the chain link is not permanant. It looks like a very ghetto version of platform doors.


----------



## SOLOMON

Vanman said:


> And the stupidest post of the year goes to ..................


agree with you.... the best post ever!!!!


----------



## LosAngelesMetroBoy

In my defense being in iraq plays with my head...

All i see all day are chainlink and t-walls


----------



## JustinB

For all it's the worth, the interior of the trains are pretty sterile.


----------



## UD2

I don't like these South Korean stock. At least from apparence wise they look one generation behind what the big three are making.

And why did Vancouver degrade it self to the uses of third rail? Can't afford linear induction anymore? 

Sigh, we're going backwards.


----------



## JustinB

You do realize the Skytrain uses 3rd Rail, right?

All LIM powered trains use either 3rd rail, or overhead Catenary.

All righty then...


----------



## ruready1000

UD2 said:


> I don't like these South Korean stock. At least from apparence wise they look one generation behind what the big three are making.
> 
> And why did Vancouver degrade it self to the uses of third rail? Can't afford linear induction anymore?
> 
> Sigh, we're going backwards.


I thought the appearance of this trains followed the canadian trend or something because Everline trains from Bombardier looked alike.


----------



## JustinB

mr.x said:


> JustinB, if I were you I wouldn't give my opinion on the project unless I've visited the corridor myself (or even better, if i live there)...not merely look at maps, reports, and pictures.


I can give an opinion if I want to. 

I am not going to just sit and take your word for it. I have seen what happens when you neglect local travel along a corridor. In Toronto, we have built subways that seem to focus on regional travel, and the ridership has been really low, for such a huge investment.

I am not passing myself as an expert, but I know that the station spacings you describe is not going to help the corridor, and focusing solely on regional travel will most likely hurt ridership.


----------



## nname

JustinB said:


> LRT can be built on a dedicate ROW, with frequencies as great as any automated metro system.


So you say it is possible to run an light rail trains 108 or 90 seconds apart, with at-grade crossings of major streets every 800~1000m and side street every 120m without causing traffic nightmare in the area?



JustinB said:


> Let's face reality here. You just built a potentially 3 Billion transit line. Do you honestly think Translink is going to run frequent trolley service to parallel it? It's not going to happen. It's sounds good on paper, but will it happen? Here in Toronto, we had frequent bus service, until the Sheppard Line opened. When the line opened, the frequency was reduced to 20 minutes all day.


They have to... there are some north-south trolley routes that have to use Broadway to get to downtown. If they don't run it there, the next available trolley wire will be 32 blocks in the south. And also, the street that parallel to Canada Line would have more frequent service than every 20 minutes. North of Broadway will be served by route #17; between Broadway and Marine will be served by #15 (and in some part, #33); and from Bridgeport and southward, it will be parallel to #403, #410, etc. All of these routes (except the #33) are frequent transit routes, which means a bus every 15 minutes or better all the time.



JustinB said:


> I am not passing myself as an expert, but I know that the station spacings you describe is not going to help the corridor, and focusing solely on regional travel will most likely hurt ridership.


I don't see any difference in TTC's spacing of subway station on Bloor, Young, University, and Shepphard - Stations at major intersections.. except the the blocks in Broadway is slightly bigger. Is the TTC subway solely for regional travel too?


----------



## bluemeansgo

Once you weight the options, you start to realize that SkyTrain along this corridor actually serves local as well as regional traffic at the same time. A true regional system would have 1500-2000m station spacing, like Skytrain has along the Sheppard-like streets of Lougheed and King George Highway.



JustinB said:


> I can give an opinion if I want to.


Completely agree.


JustinB said:


> In Toronto, we have built subways that seem to focus on regional travel, and the ridership has been really low, for such a huge investment.


Station spacing for a lot of Toronto's subway is 600-800m. As a result, the subway is actually quite slow and can't compete with the car, especially given that road transport is so fast in Toronto. But that's a different topic. I think you're speaking of the Sheppard Line, right? Yes, I agree, that line could've been LRT, given its location, the width of the street, the speed of car traffic in the area, and the cost for the relative low density of the area.

The Millennium line could've been built as LRT along Lougheed Highway as well, but it wasn't and in retrospect, it was close to an edge case, given the timing of the development that has occured around these stations since and its importance as a regional/local system.

The broadway corridor, however, is the Queen Street of Vancouver, or even the Yonge st. Imagine if there were no Bloor Subway and they were going to build it down Queen instead. Few would suggest LRT.



> It's going to be longer than 3-4 minutes walking, not to mention the time to actually ascend/descend AND to wait for a train. Compared to 3-4 extra minutes sitting on your ass on a train. Huge difference. You are not going to attract walkers, and locals to stations that are far apart.


Remember, though, that headways on Vancouver's system is 90 seconds - 5 minutes (max). This corridor would likely see very short wait times, making wait time neglibible. Seriously, when locals see trains entering the station they don't even run to catch it, knowing the next one will be here in another minute or so. That 3-4 minutes was worst case scenario. In addition, anyone transferring from almost all North South Bus lines will have a short walk down a ramp to the station (assuming the line is built under 10th ave, due to the geography of the area), which looks to be about 80-100m... or the length of a SkyTrain platform... or half a conventional subway platform's length.

Perhaps it's an extra 3-4 minutes on an LRT... but unless it's in its own ROW, there will also be longer wait times. If it's in its own ROW, it would go underground, and we're back to square one.



> LRT can be built on a dedicate ROW, with frequencies as great as any automated metro system. It's already been proven. if you're crazy enough to take transit over long distances on a metro, a transfer probably will not kill you. Again. Focus should be on local travel first, regional second.


You are absolutely right. On this corridor, a dedicated LRT ROW would be underground for more than half the route. If it goes underground, station spacing would be further apart (because of cost). There would be some cost savings, perhaps on the West side of the line, but as long as SkyTrain is elevated along the west end of the corridor, the cost savings are negligible.



> It's not going to happen. It's sounds good on paper, but will it happen? Here in Toronto, we had frequent bus service, until the Sheppard Line opened. When the line opened, the frequency was reduced to 20 minutes all day.


Consider what currently exists.
The 99 B-Line currently serves in the same capacity that an LRT would run, stopping only at major locations. The local #9 still runs. This isn't on the edge of town, like the Sheppard Line is, it's right in the core. Not only does the #9 run, but the 16, 17 and 50 run along parts of Broadway as well.



> Which would speed up the bus, and negate the need for such a costly investment.


Anyway, you've responded to my statements but not to the actual questions:

What would you consider infrequent bus service?
Where would you propose putting these extra [LRT] stops?


----------



## bluemeansgo

Source: City of Vancouver

Given that this study was probably slightly weighted against LRT, one or two of those LRT stops between Cambie and Granville would definitely be eliminated.









Source: City of Vancouver



Btw, here's a transit map of the area, showing bus routes, the *99 B-Line (IN GREEN)* and the proposed stops (X marks the spot) for a UBC Skytrain line (West of Arbutus are best guesses)








The only possible hole that I see is between Granville and Arbutus (at Burrard).

Looking at this map, I think that a stop where the B-Line stops at Willow (in front of VGH) and a stop around Alder would be a good idea. All buses that go down Oak will turn left or right on Broadway anyhow, so they'd connect with one of these two stations. This would give 500m station spacing (similar to Granville - Burrard downtown) and would directly serve the hospital. Saying that, to save on costs, it's likely just Oak St. Station would serve both areas.


----------



## deasine

JustinB said:


> Let's face reality here. You just built a potentially 3 Billion transit line. Do you honestly think Translink is going to run frequent trolley service to parallel it? It's not going to happen. It's sounds good on paper, but will it happen? Here in Toronto, we had frequent bus service, until the Sheppard Line opened. When the line opened, the frequency was reduced to 20 minutes all day.


Buses will be less frequent but not by too much. The 9 trolley will still be part of the Frequent Transit Network and buses will be at least every 10 minutes (by the minimum, more during peek hours). 



JustinB said:


> Which would speed up the bus, and negate the need for such a costly investment.


Been there, done that. If you go look at the results made by Bus-Only lanes during morning peek hours, it's only a savings of two to four minutes. Buses are overcrowded as it stands today, buses already come one after another during peek hours, and we need a substantial change now.

As concluded by the City of Vancouver in 1999-2000, both LRT and BRT will not be long term options. By 2015, according to the backgrounder, BRT must be replaced with something else. That was using projections, but it's 2009 and it's already overcrowded. LRT won't be a long lasting option. SkyTrain is the answer.

You've been mentioning station spacing again and again and it's been answered again and again. LRT does not have that many more stations than SkyTrain.


----------



## spongeg

bluemeansgo said:


> Source: City of Vancouver
> 
> Given that this study was probably slightly weighted against LRT, one or two of those LRT stops between Cambie and Granville would definitely be eliminated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: City of Vancouver
> 
> 
> 
> Btw, here's a transit map of the area, showing bus routes, the *99 B-Line (IN GREEN)* and the proposed stops (X marks the spot) for a UBC Skytrain line (West of Arbutus are best guesses)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only possible hole that I see is between Granville and Arbutus (at Burrard).
> 
> Looking at this map, I think that a stop where the B-Line stops at Willow (in front of VGH) and a stop around Alder would be a good idea. All buses that go down Oak will turn left or right on Broadway anyhow, so they'd connect with one of these two stations. This would give 500m station spacing (similar to Granville - Burrard downtown) and would directly serve the hospital. Saying that, to save on costs, it's likely just Oak St. Station would serve both areas.


after Alma i think only one would be needed before UBC


----------



## p604

A frequent streetcar/LRT in its own ROW is good enough for Broadway, for a hell of a lot less money than a tunnelled Skytrain. I say NO to wasted tax dollars. I don't understand why anyone would argue for spending billions on a project like that just to avoid a connection between systems. People do it all over the world and it works just fine. The Broadway corridor is a local corridor and just because someone from Surrey or elsewhere has a doctors appointment once in a while there, we are going to spend Billions more than a LRT so they don't get inconvenienced? Same argument for UBC, thousands take the 99 bus from Commercial, isn't that a transfer?


----------



## deasine

spongeg said:


> after Alma i think only one would be needed before UBC


Disagreed. I believe Sasamat is needed or else there will be too many gaps not to mention that would greatly benefit the community and in particular the businesses.



p604 said:


> A frequent streetcar/LRT in its own ROW is good enough for Broadway, for a hell of a lot less money than a tunnelled Skytrain. I say NO to wasted tax dollars. I don't understand why anyone would argue for spending billions on a project like that just to avoid a connection between systems. People do it all over the world and it works just fine. The Broadway corridor is a local corridor and just because someone from Surrey or elsewhere has a doctors appointment once in a while there, we are going to spend Billions more than a LRT so they don't get inconvenienced? Same argument for UBC, thousands take the 99 bus from Commercial, isn't that a transfer?


If it's just a simple transfer, it wouldn't be a problem. hno:

Do you guys actually know how much LRT would cost on Broadway? It's not as low as people think.


----------



## nname

deasine said:


> Do you guys actually know how much LRT would cost on Broadway? It's not as low as people think.


The trains alone would cost at least half a billion.


----------



## p604

nname said:


> The trains alone would cost at least half a billion.


All trains cost at least half a billion! How much is one articulated trolley bus cost?


----------



## p604

deasine said:


> Disagreed. I believe Sasamat is needed or else there will be too many gaps not to mention that would greatly benefit the community and in particular the businesses.
> 
> 
> 
> If it's just a simple transfer, it wouldn't be a problem. hno:
> 
> Why would it not be a simple transfer?
> 
> Do you guys actually know how much LRT would cost on Broadway? It's not as low as people think.


Less than a tunnelled Skytrain! Streetcars/LRT are cheaper, look better and are more people friendly, works quite well actually. Very successful in Toronto, Calgary, Portland, San Fransisco, San Diego, Denver and countless cities in Europe. And yes, you have to transfer! Big deal, can you walk a few meters?


----------



## nname

p604 said:


> All trains cost at least half a billion! How much is one articulated trolley bus cost?


Actually, skytrain will be cheaper in this category because its faster = require less cars to maintain the headway = less car to buy. Based on my calculation, to get 12000pphd, LRT would need 23x3-car trains/hr + spares = 131 cars (524mil), and skytrain would need 25x4 car trains/hr + spares = 114 cars (390mil).

Each articulated trolley would be at around 1.2~1.3 million range.



p604 said:


> Less than a tunnelled Skytrain! Streetcars/LRT are cheaper, look better and are more people friendly, works quite well actually. Very successful in Toronto, Calgary, Portland, San Fransisco, San Diego, Denver and countless cities in Europe. And yes, you have to transfer! Big deal, can you walk a few meters?


Toronto: The busiest streetcar line have about the same ridership as the 99 B-Line, and the route with the highest cost recovery _during weekday_ is just 61%. I can hardly call that successful.

Calgary: Yes, it is successful, but does Broadway have those ROW like those highway median in Calgary? Does Broadway allow train to travel up to max speed of 80km/h? Building a LRT on Broadway would be very much similar to the LRT in downtown Calgary, which they are now planning to put it underground at a cost of $250mil/km.

Portland: Max LRT is much longer than Skytrain system, but the ridership is less than one half.. well, compare it to the 99 B-Line, which have less than 1/5 of the length but almost half of the ridership. I would say 99 B-Line is more successful.

San Fransisco, San Diego, Denver: The ridership per km are all much much lower than the one for 99 B-Line. In fact, of all the LRT system in United States, only Boston green line yield higher rider per km than 99. I'm curious of what's the ridership in the subway portion of SF's muni metro, as it might be significant higher than the at-grade portion. But again, I don't think that underground portion would be much cheaper to construct than Skytrain.


----------



## JustinB

bluemeansgo said:


> Once you weight the options, you start to realize that SkyTrain along this corridor actually serves local as well as regional traffic at the same time. A true regional system would have 1500-2000m station spacing, like Skytrain has along the Sheppard-like streets of Lougheed and King George Highway.


Somehow, this got turned into an LRT/Skytrain debate. I stated at the beginning at this conversation, that I am not concerned about the choice of tech. What's more important is serving the local community, and Mr. X's proposal of 1km -1.5km just to make it easier for long distance travellers is not the way to go, in my opinion. If you can make make reasonable station spacing (850m-1000m, or what is required for the community), then I have no problem.



> Station spacing for a lot of Toronto's subway is 600-800m. As a result, the subway is actually quite slow and can't compete with the car, especially given that road transport is so fast in Toronto. But that's a different topic. I think you're speaking of the Sheppard Line, right? Yes, I agree, that line could've been LRT, given its location, the width of the street, the speed of car traffic in the area, and the cost for the relative low density of the area.


Incorrect. I am a frequent daily user of the the subway here, and the 600m station spacing is only for the downtown stations south of Bloor, and that is only a few stations anyways. Road Transport along the subway routes, with exception of Sheppard, and North of Eglinton, is pretty slow, especially during peak hours. The congestion North of Eglinton is still pretty severe, and slow going. 
The recent funding announcement for the Sheppard East LRT line pretty much confirms the colossal waste of money that is the Sheppard Line.



> The broadway corridor, however, is the Queen Street of Vancouver, or even the Yonge st. Imagine if there were no Bloor Subway and they were going to build it down Queen instead. Few would suggest LRT.


Well.. To correct you, the original plan for Queen St. WAS a streetcar subway, and that was the city's plan. The TTC insisted on a Bloor Subway, and because the TTC was profitable at the time. they were able to build the Bloor-Danforth themselves without the help of the City.
If you say Broadway is the Queen St of Vancouver, then it would be a mistake to build a Skytrain subway along the corridor. I think you just validated my point. The beauty of Queen is the walkability of the corridor, and the easy access to the Queen Streetcar. It's slow, and due to the TTC's pighead operation policies, sadly unreliable. But it's heavily used, and an attractive corridor to live, and shop. And that is due to the availabilty of transit nearby. If a subway was built, with wide station spacings, I have no doubt the corridor would not be as vibrant as it is today.
How can you attract riders to the corridor, if all they see is tunnel walls, and the gap between stations is huge? 



> Remember, though, that headways on Vancouver's system is 90 seconds - 5 minutes (max). This corridor would likely see very short wait times, making wait time neglibible. Seriously, when locals see trains entering the station they don't even run to catch it, knowing the next one will be here in another minute or so. That 3-4 minutes was worst case scenario. In addition, anyone transferring from almost all North South Bus lines will have a short walk down a ramp to the station (assuming the line is built under 10th ave, due to the geography of the area), which looks to be about 80-100m... or the length of a SkyTrain platform... or half a conventional subway platform's length.


CAPABLE of 90 seconds. From what I have read, the skytrain was used to it's full potential during the expo86. Translink's site shows headways of 2 minutes on the COMBINED portion. Not the single line portions of the system. 
Let's be real. Do you really think that the Skytrain will run at 90 seconds along Broadway? It's not likely, especially if that headway is not utilized on the single line portions. Not to mention, that Translink may not even buy enough vehicles to run 90 seconds along the extension. I have read that the line will most likely be tunneled, and not cut and cover. It's not going to be shallow, or a short walk down. Chances are, you are going to have mezzanies, before you reach track level. 




> You are absolutely right. On this corridor, a dedicated LRT ROW would be underground for more than half the route. If it goes underground, station spacing would be further apart (because of cost). There would be some cost savings, perhaps on the West side of the line, but as long as SkyTrain is elevated along the west end of the corridor, the cost savings are negligible.


Are you absolutely sure about that? Or just assuming? 



> [*]What would you consider infrequent bus service?


20 minutes or greater during rush hour. Which is possible, if an tunneled transit line is built. The frequencies may be excellent now, but that change.



> Where would you propose putting these extra [LRT] stops?


Where it would best serve the local community. The problem is that you, and a few others would rather sacrifice far greater number of riders to placate long distance travellers, whose trip will most likely end at UBC, and not anywhere along the corridor. 
Focusing solely on speed will not get drivers out of their cars. Drivers expect ease of use, accessibility, and ammenities. If you leave those out, and assume it is only speed that matters, you run the risk of building a gold plated system, that will not attract drivers.


----------



## nname

JustinB said:


> If you can make make reasonable station spacing (850m-1000m, or what is required for the community), then I have no problem.


The average station spacing for central Broadway (VCC to Macdonald) on the proposed route is 980m.



JustinB said:


> But it's heavily used, and an attractive corridor to live, and shop. And that is due to the availabilty of transit nearby.


Just a note, the average weekday ridership on the 501 is less than the weekday ridership of the 99 B-Line (which the skytrain/LRT is replacing).



JustinB said:


> CAPABLE of 90 seconds. From what I have read, the skytrain was used to it's full potential during the expo86. Translink's site shows headways of 2 minutes on the COMBINED portion. Not the single line portions of the system.


The combined portion run for almost the entire length of the Expo line - except for last 4 stations. The current headway is 96s between Waterfront and Broadway (5 stations), 108s between Broadway to Columbia (10 stations), 162s between Columbia and King George (4 stations).



JustinB said:


> Let's be real. Do you really think that the Skytrain will run at 90 seconds along Broadway? It's not likely, especially if that headway is not utilized on the single line portions.


The headway on the Millennium line would be 180s after Evergreen Line opens in 2014. So if the Broadway extension opens, the headway would likely to be somewhere close to 108s. Expo line, by that time, would most likely to run at 90s according to the plan.



JustinB said:


> Not to mention, that Translink may not even buy enough vehicles to run 90 seconds along the extension.


I think the cost for Broadway extension would include the vehicles.



JustinB said:


> I have read that the line will most likely be tunneled, and not cut and cover. It's not going to be shallow, or a short walk down. Chances are, you are going to have mezzanies, before you reach track level.


The plan is to tunnel under 10th avenue, which is higher than Broadway. Meaning that you just have to walk south, not down, to access the train.


----------



## deasine

p604 said:


> Less than a tunnelled Skytrain! Streetcars/LRT are cheaper, look better and are more people friendly, works quite well actually. Very successful in Toronto, Calgary, Portland, San Fransisco, San Diego, Denver and countless cities in Europe. And yes, you have to transfer! Big deal, can you walk a few meters?


I think we already answered all this and I don't feel like repeating ourselves a gagillion times. Go scroll back to the past three pages to see why it's not just a damn transfer.

JustinB, we understand your point, and we already told you. I hope nname's post would be THE LAST of it.


----------



## mr.x

spongeg said:


> after Alma i think only one would be needed before UBC


You do realize that the bus ridership at Sasamat station is higher than even some Expo and Millennium SkyTrain stations.


Not wanting to post redundantly, simply said the corridor is one of regional importance and requires a regional solution - and that's SkyTrain with the proposed stops. If you traveled down the corridor yourself, which goes back to my previous comment on why you're posting on something you know so little about (besides maps and reports), you'd know that any more stops along the corridor would be completely silly and would be a waste of money. The purpose of the extension is to serve both local and regional commuters, just like what the 99 B-Line does and what the new SkyTrain line would mirror. Frequent (10-15-min) trolley service would be maintained along the corridor - it's a necessity. 

Even with the Canada Line, a local bus service is being maintained on Cambie with a bus every 10-15 mins.


----------



## Allen2

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5-19-2009

*YVR:*

























































----------------------------------------------------------------

*SEA ISLAND STATION*










































































+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*Yaletown - Roundhouse Station*
















































































































































































































ALL PHOTOS BY TAFYRN
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com


----------



## spongeg

deasine said:


> Disagreed. I believe Sasamat is needed or else there will be too many gaps not to mention that would greatly benefit the community and in particular the businesses.



and that would be the "one" station needed between UBC and Alma as I said more than that between UBC and alma is not needed


----------



## spongeg

mr.x said:


> You do realize that the bus ridership at Sasamat station is higher than even some Expo and Millennium SkyTrain stations.


and if people paid attention to what i wrote i said i think only one station is needed between alma and UBC not zero i never said zero stations are needed i said ONE 

somewhere along the little retail strip along 10th - where the safeway etc is would be good and than the next one at UBC possibly two for UBC however they route it i guess


----------



## spongeg

anyway if there was one between Sasamat and UBC is this how it will go??


----------



## bluemeansgo

spongeg said:


> and that would be the "one" station needed between UBC and Alma as I said more than that between UBC and alma is not needed


That's how I read it. Pretty obvious, actually.

I didn't put an X there on the map because I was focusing on the Central Broadway corridor's station spacing.


----------



## bluemeansgo

JustinB said:


> If you can make make reasonable station spacing (850m-1000m, or what is required for the community), then I have no problem.


I guess after nname's post, you have no problem.



> Incorrect. I am a frequent daily user of the the subway here, and the 600m station spacing is only for the downtown stations south of Bloor, and that is only a few stations anyways.





> The congestion North of Eglinton is still pretty severe, and slow going. The recent funding announcement for the Sheppard East LRT line pretty much confirms the colossal waste of money that is the Sheppard Line.


Public transit almost never reduces congestion for cars. But, it does reduce it for people who use it.


> How can you attract riders to the corridor, if all they see is tunnel walls, and the gap between stations is huge?


I agree that it does little to improve the streetscape. However, Vancouver's pretty good about adding bus bulges and taking lanes away from cars (see the removal of car lanes on the Burrard bridge). Though this is speculation, I could see them taking one lane away and using it for a bike lane. But that is speculation.


> CAPABLE of 90 seconds. From what I have read, the skytrain was used to it's full potential during the expo86. Translink's site shows headways of 2 minutes on the COMBINED portion. Not the single line portions of the system.


Pity you haven't been here. You'd be able to see that what you've read doesn't corroborate with what you actually experience.


> Let's be real. Do you really think that the Skytrain will run at 90 seconds along Broadway? It's not likely, especially if that headway is not utilized on the single line portions. Not to mention, that Translink may not even buy enough vehicles to run 90 seconds along the extension.





> I have read that the line will most likely be tunneled, and not cut and cover.


Depends. If it was down Broadway, then yes, you're probably right, due to experiences on Cambie. No decision has been made. If it's down 10th, which is probable, there would a lot more opportunity for cut n' cover. But we shall see.


> 20 minutes or greater during rush hour. Which is possible, if an tunneled transit line is built. The frequencies may be excellent now, but that change.


You'll be happy to know that it will be MUCH shorter than that.


> The problem is that you, and a few others would rather sacrifice far greater number of riders to placate long distance travellers, whose trip will most likely end at UBC, and not anywhere along the corridor.


The Broadway corridor IS a major destination. UBC also is. The station spacing will serve these two areas very well as it will be under 1000m along the most central parts.


> Focusing solely on speed will not get drivers out of their cars. Drivers expect ease of use, accessibility, and ammenities. If you leave those out, and assume it is only speed that matters, you run the risk of building a gold plated system, that will not attract drivers.


Frequency is a major factor as well. Combine frequency, speed, ease of use, accessibility... and you have SkyTrain.
Frequent (~2 min)
Fast
Easy to use (if under 10th... see nname's illustration)
Accessible (A ramp to station with minimal stairs)

Where it fails is in the ability to change the streetscape, obviously.


----------



## deasine

spongeg said:


> and that would be the "one" station needed between UBC and Alma as I said more than that between UBC and alma is not needed


No. I personally think there should be a station at Allison too, like there is one for the B-Line. There are a few developments around that station site anyway.


----------



## nname

bluemeansgo said:


> You'll be happy to know that it will be MUCH shorter than that.


Looked through the early version of Sept. bus schedule for the frequency of bus service along Cambie and No. 3 Road after Canada Line:

From Downtown to Marine Drive: #15
AM Peak: 6 bus/hr = 10 min headway
Mid-Day: 5 bus/hr = 12 min headway
PM Peak: 6 bus/hr = 10 min headway
Evening: 4 bus/hr = 15 min headway

From Bridgeport to Cambie: #403
AM Peak: 4 bus/hr = 15 min headway
Mid-Day: 4 bus/hr = 15 min headway
PM Peak: 5 bus/hr = 12 min headway
Evening: 4 bus/hr = 15 min headway

From Cambie to Brighouse: #403, #410
AM Peak: 4+6 bus/hr = 6 min headway avg
Mid-Day: 4+4 bus/hr = 7.5 min headway avg
PM Peak: 5+5 bus/hr = 6 min headway avg
Evening: 4+4 bus/hr = 7.5 min headway avg

Much better than the so-called 20min headway during peak hours.

Note: This schedule have yet to be finalized


----------



## spongeg

deasine said:


> No. I personally think there should be a station at Allison too, like there is one for the B-Line. There are a few developments around that station site anyway.


where is allison?


----------



## ssiguy2

^ Ya, I don't know of that street either


----------



## deasine

You guys could just go look at Google Maps...

http://local.google.ca/maps?f=q&sou...241904&spn=0.002821,0.009012&t=h&z=18&iwloc=A

I know it's rather close to the bus loop, but since the loop is going underground, I'm hoping the Skytrain station can either go closer into the S.U.B. or closer inwards to the centre of the campus to better serve the University while Allison serves the neighborhood of UBC endowment lands.

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind one big mega station right underneath Westbrook with station exits going all over the place.


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## raccc

p604 said:


> A frequent streetcar/LRT in its own ROW is good enough for Broadway, for a hell of a lot less money than a tunnelled Skytrain. I say NO to wasted tax dollars. I don't understand why anyone would argue for spending billions on a project like that just to avoid a connection between systems. People do it all over the world and it works just fine. The Broadway corridor is a local corridor and just because someone from Surrey or elsewhere has a doctors appointment once in a while there, we are going to spend Billions more than a LRT so they don't get inconvenienced? Same argument for UBC, thousands take the 99 bus from Commercial, isn't that a transfer?


Not really a hell of a lot less. Back in 2000, the cost of LRT to UBC was estimated to be $800 million while SkyTrain to Arbutus and rapid bus the rest of the way was estimated to be $710 million. As about $45 million of that would have been the rapid bus, the SkyTrain portion would have been $670 million. So SkyTrain all the way would have been $1.34 billion or so. That has doubled to $2.8 billion so the LRT would have doubled to $1.6 billion.

http://vancouver.ca/engsvcs/transport/rto/ubcline/previous.htm

Regarding the transfers, it is not just a few people, by 2020, it will be around 100,000 per day.


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## Allen2

*PHOTO UPDATE BY TAFYRN...MAY 25*

*Broadway Station*




































































========================================================
*
Aberdeen Station*



























































































========================================================

*Lansdowne Station:*




























































===============================================

*Vancouver City Centre*


































































































































================================================

http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/


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## Overground

Is it just me? With City Hall station that seems like one crazy place to put an air vent, right outside the entrance to what will be one of the busiest stations on the Line. If you're walking down Cambie to the station you will have to swoop around it to go in. It ruins the whole ease of pedestrian movement going in and out of the station.

Also it looks like an instant hit for vagrants to set up shop.


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## JustinB

Can't argue with this:

Column: Subway to UBC still a financial pipe dream


By Miro Cernetig, Vancouver Sun columnistMay 24, 2009



One of the next big megaplans the provincial government is contemplating is tunneling a subway under Vancouver’s west side, stretching from near City Hall to the University of British Columbia. It’s a bold, forward-looking idea that will cost $3 billion.

But it’s also an idea far too ahead of its time.

The government — and its public transit agency, TransLink — needs to be looking in the other direction when it comes to public transit. The next major infusion of public transit money needs to be directed toward the outskirts of Metro Vancouver, where a population boom is underway that will transform the city.

But first, let’s get back to that $3-billion tunnel through Vancouver’s west side to the University of British Columbia.

It’s hard not to like a pipe dream like this. In theory it will take thousands of cars off the roads, we’d get rid of the crowding on buses and perhaps stimulate higher-density condo building. It will supposedly help reduce our carbon footprint.

Here’s a little-heard reality check, though.

Aside from the occasionally stop-and-go traffic on Broadway between Cambie and Granville streets, there are no real traffic jams out to the university. Vancouver’s west side is a slow-growth area when compared to the other areas of Metro Vancouver.

A subway to UBC is also a questionable economic deal.

Let’s suppose 100,000 people would use that $3-billion rail line — a ridership figure far, far in the future. If it was financed at five per cent a year for 30 years, the actual construction cost to the taxpayer would be $5.8 billion.

That means about $58,000 per rider. Put another way, those 100,000 riders would have to ride the rails every day, seven days a week, for $5 apiece, for more than 30 years to pay down the investment. And that wouldn’t even begin to pay for the system’s operating costs.

But aside from the humongous bill, it’s the population growth statistics that don’t support this megaproject.

Metro Vancouver’s population was estimated at 2.2 million people in 2006. By 2031, 25 years from now, the population will grow to 3.2 million. That’s about a 45-per-cent increase.

But you have to ask yourself where that growth will be. It’s certainly not spread out equally. And it’s not going to be on Vancouver’s expensive west side.

Statistics show the City of Vancouver, which would be the biggest beneficiary of the UBC rail line, will grow from a population of 607,000 to 709,000 by 2031. That’s a modest 17-per-cent increase.

Contrast that to Abbotsford, Coquitlam, Langley Township and Surrey. According to an analysis from the office of Surrey Mayor Dianne Watts, those four “high-growth-communities” will grow collectively at a rate of approximately 20,800 people per year, meaning an additional 520,000 by the year 2031.

The current population of those communities in 2006 was about 770,000. It will reach 1.29 million people by 2031. That means a 67-per-cent boost in population.

It means in less than a generation, we will have the equivalent of Canada’s fourth-largest city sitting on the edge of Metro Vancouver. That means more cars, more traffic jams and more greenhouse gas emissions that will erode our standard of living.

Yet there’s little talk amongst our megaplanners of extending a rapid-rail system out to those fast-growing communities.

But ask them these questions: Should the City of Vancouver — which will grow by 17 per cent in 2031 — get a $3-billion public-transit rail line? Or should we be thinking of putting that public infrastructure in an area growing four times faster than the City of Vancouver and save us from turning into Los Angeles north?

[email protected]
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Column+Subway+still+financial+pipe+dream/1626432/story.html


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## spongeg

there was an open house today at the sea island station at the airport...
i was there  and i didn't notice any signage

some pics









































































































elevator upper level
















view
















































from the platform
















the south side entrance








lower








































west/north entrance
































still not paved and huge potholes
















i took these without looking


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## deasine

It's kind of funny... because the writer doesn't realize that the suburbs are getting their share of rapid transit, namely Evergreen Line and expansion and extension of the Expo Line.


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## bluemeansgo

raccc said:


> Linear induction uses more energy. As well, the Canada Line cars have a suspension which makes the ride smoother. This is not possible or at least not available on SkyTrain cars.


I thought that Linear Induction was in general less expensive because of fewer moving parts, easier maintenance and efficient energy recapture due to the extensive use of regenerative braking. Essentially, they don't use their brakes except for emergency stops and the final stop at the station.

The capital costs of the system are more, as you need a magnetic third rail, but running it is less expensive, as far as I know.


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## raccc

And people from the burbs will be using the UBC Line.


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## mr.x

> Let’s suppose *100,000 people would use that $3-billion rail line* — a ridership figure far, far in the future. If it was financed at five per cent a year for 30 years, the actual construction cost to the taxpayer would be $5.8 billion.


It isn't far into the future at all if the writer did his research...in a 2000 study, studies showed that if SkyTrain were extended to Arbutus and the remaining trip to UBC the combined ridership would be 150,000 per day! That's halfway SkyTrain and halfway rapid bus to UBC and that was a decade ago!

Consider that the U-Pass has since been introduced, transit ridership is rapidly climbing, densification, improved bus service in the region, the introduction of both the Canada Line (intersecting with the UBC extension) and Evergreen Line (an extension of the Millennium Line and therefore part of the route to UBC) *AND* the fact that the line probably wouldn't be complete for another 10 years.....we can easily reach 100,000 in 2020. In fact, we could easily reach 100,000 today considering bus ridership along the Broadway corridor is already at 100,000 per day. 10 years from today, the ridership of the extension would easily reach 200,000 per day.

Again, one can't simply make an opinion by viewing images and maps - you have to visit the area first.


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## nname

mr.x said:


> we can easily reach 100,000 in 2020.


Even the Evergreen line is projected to have 93,400 riders per day when it opens in 2014...


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## mr.x

^ well, i think that's a little bit too high. A more realistic number in my opinion for an Evergreen Line opening in 2014 would be 60,000-70,000. Consider it's only 11-kms long, with 6-8 stations. The Millennium Line today rakes in more than 75,000 passengers per day.


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## deasine

That's operation cost, but yes you are correct.


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## ssiguy2

I have always agreed with this argument. SkyTrain to UBC...............eventually but there are higher priorities. SkyTrain to Arbutus or Alma would be fine but after that it's relativley low density and the traffic on Broadway is free flowing so BLine from Alma to UBC would be fine. 

There are more pressing problems like LRT thru Surrey/Langley, an effective Commuter rail & bus system and definatly the Hastings corridor which is a far busier route then Broadway is already. Hastings already has 5 regular routes on it and with 3 more routes literally running paralell to it with 2 blocks. This does not include rush hour express buses. Hastings is also a far more clogged roadway than Broadway west of Granville is. 
LRT connecting Metrotown to Canada Line via Joyce is also high priority. Extending SkyTrain all the way to UBC was political by Campbell and arguable one of the worst mayors has had in decades....Sullivan. 

SkyTrain all the way past Alma to UBC simply doesn't offer the bang for the buck.


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## ssiguy2

They couldn't make the station darker if they tried. I pray they they paint the walls a different colour.


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## deasine

ssiguy2 said:


> They couldn't make the station darker if they tried. I pray they they paint the walls a different colour.


You talking about the walls with advertisements and signs? They are dark for the sake of easy maintenance. I thought it was a problem at first, but it's fine. In fact, it makes the platform look even better.


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## Buncles

Quite underwhelming... the station looks very small and inadequate. The signage should be much bigger.

I loved watching this project grow as well... and the station is just bland and boring.


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## Allen2

^ Sorry if it was disappointing for you....


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## Plumber73

Well gee... it isn't done yet. The artsy stuff comes in later.


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## adrimm

Hmmm. 

Nice, but a bit bland, very square, ceilings look a bit low - hard to say how they would feel in person..did they feel low?

I would have thought/expected some wood/wood-look curves and sweeps to be somehow part of the design.


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## deasine

adrimm said:


> Hmmm.
> 
> Nice, but a bit bland, very square, ceilings look a bit low - hard to say how they would feel in person..did they feel low?
> 
> I would have thought/expected some wood/wood-look curves and sweeps to be somehow part of the design.


That's Broadway Station apparently


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## Plumber73

adrimm said:


> Hmmm.
> 
> Nice, but a bit bland, very square, ceilings look a bit low - hard to say how they would feel in person..did they feel low?
> 
> I would have thought/expected some wood/wood-look curves and sweeps to be somehow part of the design.


Wait 50 years for it to build character.  I've read they won't have any art in the stations until sometime after opening day. They just want to get the thing up and running first. Not sure if you can have a lot of wood inside a station, since it could be a fire hazard. For Waterfront Station, the ceilings look 11-12ft at the ends (as high as a typical commercial building) and 30-40ft in the middle. I haven't been there personally though.


----------



## mr.x

Buncles said:


> Quite underwhelming... the station looks very small and inadequate. The signage should be much bigger.
> 
> I loved watching this project grow as well... and the station is just bland and boring.


I think it's nice, but i will agree that some of the walls leading to the platform are quite bland....it is small though, the station platforms are either 40 or 50-metres in length with the 40-metre platforms capable of being extended to 50-metres.

I do wish they had spent another $500-million to build it properly.


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## mr.x

*Here's BROADWAY-CITY HALL STATION*


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## en

mr.x said:


> I think it's nice, but i will agree that some of the walls leading to the platform are quite bland....it is small though, the station platforms are either 40 or 50-metres in length with the 40-metre platforms capable of being extended to 50-metres.
> 
> I do wish they had spent another $500-million to build it properly.


The stations are really bland. The first thing that struck me when I first entered Waterfront Station was how bland and boring that long corridor looked.

The platforms are so short that as the train approaches a station, if you sit at the front, you could literally see the ENTIRE length of the platform, from beginning to end in one view. That is what really surprised me...

I am sure that if it had been properly built, we wouldn't have ended up having a Canada Line and Expo Line stations at Waterfront that don't connect to each other within the fare paid zone. The Canada Line station is located on the SW corner of the train hall while the Expo Line station is located on the North side.


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## Plumber73

Why would you want them connected? And I'll say again... give them a chance to finish. I can almost guarantee you that those walls will have something on them, just not at this time.


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## mr.x

en said:


> The stations are really bland. The first thing that struck me when I first entered Waterfront Station was how bland and boring that long corridor looked.
> 
> The platforms are so short that as the train approaches a station, if you sit at the front, you could literally see the ENTIRE length of the platform, from beginning to end in one view. That is what really surprised me...
> 
> I am sure that if it had been properly built, we wouldn't have ended up having a Canada Line and Expo Line stations at Waterfront that don't connect to each other within the fare paid zone. The Canada Line station is located on the SW corner of the train hall while the Expo Line station is located on the North side.


Agreed, but i thought the roof of the platform was pretty nice.




The ticketing concourse at the CPR building looks alright, i like the column and ceiling treatment.













It would've been quite cool had they hadn't cheapen out and have the lights go all the other way to the other wall...would have been a pretty cool lighting effect. Having it just on one side seems, well, cheap.













And this hall is disgustingly bland. Would it have killed them to simply extend the above hallway design (with the lights on the walls)? Some murals, public art, and ads along this corridor would be nice.













As for the platforms, well I've gone on and on and on about them over the years to the point i've become a broken record. All in all, it may add up to 15,000 pphpd in the future but still it's a ghastly mistake to have platforms so short in a rapidly growing region. With larger trains than the Mark II, it should've been a 60-metre platform at the very least - capable of reaching a 20,000 pphpd capacity. I still think platform crowding could be a issue with such a small platform.

*Come opening day, a lot of people are going to be wondering why it has such small platforms. I can assure you that.* Friends of mine who have seen the trains being tested or have seen the stations themselves always ask me why the hell it's so short. And my answer? "They went cheap".

I still maintain that it was a big mistake to have the current P3 model in which the private sector was responsible for so much of the cost, and as a result the design and construction method. It may also have been a mistake to rush it in time for the Olympics AND it certainly was a mistake by the Government to insist on building it with the minimum budget. The bulk of the line's cost is the infrastructure, increasing the budget by a few hundred more million could have done wonders to the actual aesthetics and capacity of the line.


And the cheap cosmetic/aesthetic designs in the stations probably won't age too well in my opinion...just like the Expo Line. The Millennium Line has been open for 10 years, and it's still in very good condition.

The whole way RAVCO went about it was wrong. First of all, they lowballed the capacity at just 15,000 pphpd. Secondly, having a fair bidding process is more important than getting the best bang out of a taxpayer's hard worked money? Bombardier originally presented them with a $1.84-billion SkyTrain bid which would have major cost savings with regards to having a shared rolling stock with our existing SkyTrain and a shared OMC....there would of course be lower operational costs as a result, and it would have been probably publicly operated. But it was rejected because RAVCO wanted a fair playing field...the new Bombardier bid ended up costing $2.4-billion, while SNC's bid came at $1.74-billion - which is now $2.05-billion with overruns. Operational costs for a publicly operated integrated SkyTrain line would probably be significantly lower than what it will cost to operated the Canada Line that we've built.


I can only hope we will learn these lessons for the Evergreen Line. I was horrified a few days ago to learn that there was a possibility it wouldn't be built as SkyTrain, rather it could be separate just like the Canada Line (but with "SkyTrain-like" technology)....it was said that a transfer at Lougheed would be required. One of the main arguments for SkyTrain for that route was the lack of transfer - what's the point if you add a transfer? And it of course would also mean a lower potential ridership.



To build the Canada Line properly, with a higher architectural standard, nicer train finishings, and 60 or 80-metre platforms...it would probably require only an additional $500-million. A drop in the bucket compared to the $2.05-billion budget. 

I do think the Canada Line will go down as the worst transit decision this region will have ever made. It's almost like as if it were our own Scarborough RT, but only worse.


----------



## mr.x

Plumber73 said:


> Why would you want them connected? And I'll say again... give them a chance to finish. I can almost guarantee you that those walls will have something on them, just not at this time.


Not necessarily connected, but nearer to the Expo Line for the sake of ease of transfers. Hell, you could even use the same fare gates (which could also be used for the SeaBus and WCE).

They better have something on the walls.


----------



## Plumber73

Just for the sake of trying to discourage people from spraying tags and graffiti. Regarding the location of Waterfront Station for Canada Line... I'm not sure you could physically make it much closer using an open pit method. Anyway, I don't see why there would be a huge need to transfer between the Expo and Canada Lines, especially after you extend the Millenium Line.


----------



## deasine

> White Rock and Richmond Buses increase service in September
> Canada Line opening means more trips South of the Fraser
> 
> Transit users going to and from Crescent Beach will benefit from having more buses, more often with the opening of the Canada Line. Beginning September 7, the #351 Crescent Beach will become part of the Frequent Transit Network (FTN).
> 
> The increased frequency is the result of the buses' travelling only as far as the Bridgeport Canada Line Station. A shorter route means more frequent service on the #351 and allows some buses to be "reinvested" to improve other local services. On Mondays through Fridays, buses will run every 10 minutes in the morning peak period, then every 15 minutes until 9pm, at which time frequency will be reduced through the end of the service day. On weekends, buses will run at 15 minute intervals throughout. The first and last buses are timed to meet the first and last Canada Line trains.
> 
> Customers in Richmond will also see increased frequency on many of their bus routes. With the 488, 490, 491, 496 and 98 B-Line routes being discontinued, the 401, 402, 403, 404, 405, 410 and 430 will run more often, serving the Canada Line stations. The #480 UBC/Richmond Centre will also run more often between 7-11am and 3-8pm, Monday to Friday.
> 
> With the new route alignments, customers will also be able to reach new destinations in Richmond and Vancouver International Airport. For those going into Vancouver, connecting with the Canada Line will eliminate a key source of frustration: the traffic over the Oak Street Bridge and on Granville Street, which has been a "wild card" for years. The Highway 99 bus-only lane, currently under construction by the provincial transportation ministry, will allow northbound buses to get around traffic on the portion from the Massey Tunnel to Bridgeport. From there, the trip to Waterfront station takes 19 minutes.
> 
> There will also be more frequent service on routes in Vancouver, such as the #10 along Granville Street and the #33, #41, #43 and #100 during some periods of the day. This will enable Canada Line customers to make east-west connections without going to the heavily used Broadway corridor.
> 
> For more information, please visit www.translink.ca or call 604-953-3333.
> 
> Increasing the FTN, in which buses run no more than 15 minutes apart, 15 hours a day, every day, is a major component of TransLink's South of Fraser Area Transit Plan. By the end of 2008, over 20 per cent of the homes in the sub-region consisting of White Rock, Delta, Surrey and Langley were within walking distance (450 metres) of FTN service. Prior to June 2007, that figure was zero.


Source: TransLink


----------



## Yellow Fever

Good news! Hope they will also increase buses service between Surrey & Richmond.


----------



## Mr.A

*big enough?*

check out this new Seattle transit station on www.soundtransit.org
photo of the week
daily ridership expected 21000!


----------



## raccc

deasine said:


> I've read too much about that... it just angers me every time I see it.


Right Hon. Stephen Harper
Prime Minister of Canada
[email protected]


----------



## ssiguy2

Translink has basically acknowledged that the Canada Line will not result in any faster times to downtown for people coming in from Ladner od WR/SS but the increase in service level is very welcome. With the areas huge population increase the 351 is becoming packed at all times of the day. 
The northbound BusLane on #99 is a great improvement due to the backed up traffic on the Oak Street bridge. It with the SkyTrain will allow for more regularity of bus times. It isd also great for people down here as it is also a busy bus route down here in the actual area. 
I hope they add a route, at some point, from WR to 16th ave station in NW. Another great idea is if they created a route from Bridgeport down the Richmond Connector/Alex Fraser down to 72nd to Newton exchange. It could be a very fast and well patronized route as long as the created buslanes going onto the bridge from each direction.


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## ssiguy2

Also forgot to mention that it is going to be wonderful at night. Right now the last 351 leaving tondtown is 12:15 AM which makes a night on the town impossible.


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## vanboy2

I did not know that sky train stop running at midnight on sunday night.I got kicked out at new westminster at midnight and I had to take the taxi back to downtown.sucks


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## deasine

ssiguy2 said:


> Translink has basically acknowledged that the Canada Line will not result in any faster times to downtown for people coming in from Ladner od WR/SS but the increase in service level is very welcome. With the areas huge population increase the 351 is becoming packed at all times of the day.


When did they say that?


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## Daguy

Mr.A said:


> check out this new Seattle transit station on www.soundtransit.org
> photo of the week
> daily ridership expected 21000!


This has nothing to do with Vancouver but I'll comment. If you look at Sound's website you'll see that the 21000 figure is the predicted daily ridership by the end of 2009 for the entire initial segment of link light rail opening in July. That's pretty damn low!


----------



## deasine

The_Henry_Man said:


> Here's some pics of Aberdeen and Lansdowne Stations:
> (All pictures in this post are taken by me, today, on June 24th, 2009)
> 
> *
> Lansdowne:
> *
> I think the two small machines on the far right are validators
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The two ticketing machines
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Validators
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wayfinding/Security/Safety etc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lansdowne Stn Entrance
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Aberdeen:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------
> 
> 1) If you look closely, for the sign showing terminus stations at Aberdeen, it says, "Waterfront, YVR-Airport" but for Lansdowne, it instead said "Vancouver, YVR-Airport". What's up with the signage inconsistency? Same at Waterfront, the same sign says "Richmond-YVR", as opposed to the supposed "Richmond-Brighouse/YVR".
> 
> 2) the "Fare Paid Zone" sign at Aberdeen is even smaller than the ones at Lansdowne!!!! WTF????!!!! :hell: Someone better take notice and replace that entire sign (as well as the inconsistent signage as I mentioned for 1) )
> 
> BTW: I actually saw FIVE ticketing machines at Richmond-Brighouse Stn, as opposed to FOUR.


Source: Member from SSP


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## deasine

Too lazy to upload, but the "Living Wall" is installed in YVR-Airport STN


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## deasine

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## deasine

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## deasine

Taken by Deasine ∙ June 27 2009 ∙ Hosted on Facebook ∙ Creative Commons Protected









Taken by Deasine ∙ June 27 2009 ∙ Hosted on Facebook ∙ Creative Commons Protected









Taken by Deasine ∙ June 27 2009 ∙ Hosted on Facebook ∙ Creative Commons Protected









Taken by Deasine ∙ June 27 2009 ∙ Hosted on Facebook ∙ Creative Commons Protected









Taken by Deasine ∙ June 27 2009 ∙ Hosted on Facebook ∙ Creative Commons Protected









Taken by Deasine ∙ June 27 2009 ∙ Hosted on Facebook ∙ Creative Commons Protected









Taken by Deasine ∙ June 27 2009 ∙ Hosted on Facebook ∙ Creative Commons Protected









Taken by Deasine ∙ June 27 2009 ∙ Hosted on Facebook ∙ Creative Commons Protected









Taken by Deasine ∙ June 27 2009 ∙ Hosted on Facebook ∙ Creative Commons Protected









Taken by Deasine ∙ June 27 2009 ∙ Hosted on Facebook ∙ Creative Commons Protected


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## deasine

Taken by Deasine ∙ June 27 2009 ∙ Hosted on Facebook ∙ Creative Commons Protected









Taken by Deasine ∙ June 27 2009 ∙ Hosted on Facebook ∙ Creative Commons Protected









Taken by Deasine ∙ June 27 2009 ∙ Hosted on Facebook ∙ Creative Commons Protected









Taken by Deasine ∙ June 27 2009 ∙ Hosted on Facebook ∙ Creative Commons Protected


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## mr.x

Really good quality video of Oakridge-41st Station from yesterday's open house:


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## Yardmaster

Congratulations Vancouver, British Columbia & Canada.


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## Allen2

^ thank you. It contributes to the Greater Vancouver Region...not just the city alone


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## deasine

> *Ride the first of the new Mark II cars tomorrow!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the new Mk II SkyTrain cars will start on our system tomorrow---July 3!
> Woop woop — the first of our new SkyTrain cars will be running on the system tomorrow, and you’re all invited to ride it!
> 
> After the morning rush hour on Friday July 3, look out for train #306 and feel free to get on board when it stops at your station.
> 
> The train is now in its “endurance running” phase, after successfully completing extensive testing and trial running. Endurance running requires that the train completes 2000 kilometres of regular service while meeting certain criteria (the equivalent of about one week of service). A critical part of this phase involves passengers boarding and disembarking the trains, so go ahead and climb aboard!
> 
> You’ll find a SkyTrain attendant on board to talk to passengers about the new train, plus I think I’ll also pop in to see what people think of it. You can also check out the Buzzer blog’s posts about the car’s new interiors, and photos/video of the exteriors.
> 
> This new train is one of the 48 new SkyTrain cars expected before the Olympics, boosting our capacity by 30%—hurrah!
> 
> And watch out over the next week: you’ll see some other new Mark IIs start their trial runs at the stations.
> 
> Part of the trial run plan requires trains to operate on the guideways, stopping at stations and activating the doors—but the trains won’t carry passengers just yet. You’ll see signs on the windows and staff on board to indicate that passengers are not yet permitted on those trains.


Source: Buzzer Blog


----------



## deasine

> *Ride the first of the new Mark II cars tomorrow!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the new Mk II SkyTrain cars will start on our system tomorrow---July 3!
> Woop woop — the first of our new SkyTrain cars will be running on the system tomorrow, and you’re all invited to ride it!
> 
> After the morning rush hour on Friday July 3, look out for train #306 and feel free to get on board when it stops at your station.
> 
> The train is now in its “endurance running” phase, after successfully completing extensive testing and trial running. Endurance running requires that the train completes 2000 kilometres of regular service while meeting certain criteria (the equivalent of about one week of service). A critical part of this phase involves passengers boarding and disembarking the trains, so go ahead and climb aboard!
> 
> You’ll find a SkyTrain attendant on board to talk to passengers about the new train, plus I think I’ll also pop in to see what people think of it. You can also check out the Buzzer blog’s posts about the car’s new interiors, and photos/video of the exteriors.
> 
> This new train is one of the 48 new SkyTrain cars expected before the Olympics, boosting our capacity by 30%—hurrah!
> 
> And watch out over the next week: you’ll see some other new Mark IIs start their trial runs at the stations.
> 
> Part of the trial run plan requires trains to operate on the guideways, stopping at stations and activating the doors—but the trains won’t carry passengers just yet. You’ll see signs on the windows and staff on board to indicate that passengers are not yet permitted on those trains.


Source: Buzzer Blog


----------



## deasine

SkyTrain MK II:



> As mentioned yesterday, the first of the 48 new SkyTrain cars started running on the system this morning, and I got to jump on for its first trip!
> 
> Above is a video of the two-car train #306 arriving at Edmonds Station — its first stop ever on the system. (You can see the cameramen from CTV and Global there, so you might certainly see more footage on TV tonight.)
> 
> The train will definitely be in service for the next week or so, and remember, you’re all welcome on board! It’s currently in an “endurance running” phase, which means it must complete 2000 kilometres of regular service while meeting certain criteria (that’s the equivalent of about one week of service). A critical part of this phase involves passengers boarding and disembarking the trains, so go ahead and get on it!
> 
> Okay, now above you’ll find a short podcast with some rider reactions to the new car. Just thought I’d capture a few first day thoughts!
> 
> [Flash Content - Podcast can only be seen in link below]
> 
> And after the jump, there’s some more photos and video. I’ll keep it short, since I’m sure you guys will come up with way more great shots and video too — and please do send them my way!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first junior SkyTrain pilots aboard train #306! In the early part of the ride, the train had more SkyTrain and TransLink people onboard than actual passengers -- the kids above were a few of the lucky riders!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These seats on the train fold up to allow room for wheelchairs and strollers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few SkyTrain attendants took a moment to examine the new maps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A cyclist brought his bike on board! The new configuration allows much more room for bikes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very important: the new SkyTrain has Buzzer boxes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since a lot of us were TransLink/SkyTrain/media staff, we were allowed to stay on the SkyTrain as it changed direction at Waterfront Station. Here’s the view coming in from the train yard, approaching the eastbound platform. Look at all the people taking pictures!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had to hop off the train at Metrotown and go back to work, but that gave me one last opportunity to capture the new train leaving the station. There’s the LED display on the front, saying King George!
> 
> If you haven’t seen them already, here are the past Buzzer blog posts on the new trains:
> 
> Improved interiors for the new SkyTrain cars
> The first of the new SkyTrain cars has arrived!
> As you may have heard in the podcast, I also ran into Bryan from The Transit Site on the train, so watch his site for more photos & video too.
> 
> And if you catch a ride on the new cars, please feel free to share your experience in the comments! Again, your photos and videos of the new car are more than welcome too


Source: Buzzer


----------



## deasine

SkyTrain MK II:



> As mentioned yesterday, the first of the 48 new SkyTrain cars started running on the system this morning, and I got to jump on for its first trip!
> 
> Above is a video of the two-car train #306 arriving at Edmonds Station — its first stop ever on the system. (You can see the cameramen from CTV and Global there, so you might certainly see more footage on TV tonight.)
> 
> The train will definitely be in service for the next week or so, and remember, you’re all welcome on board! It’s currently in an “endurance running” phase, which means it must complete 2000 kilometres of regular service while meeting certain criteria (that’s the equivalent of about one week of service). A critical part of this phase involves passengers boarding and disembarking the trains, so go ahead and get on it!
> 
> Okay, now above you’ll find a short podcast with some rider reactions to the new car. Just thought I’d capture a few first day thoughts!
> 
> [Flash Content - Podcast can only be seen in link below]
> 
> And after the jump, there’s some more photos and video. I’ll keep it short, since I’m sure you guys will come up with way more great shots and video too — and please do send them my way!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first junior SkyTrain pilots aboard train #306! In the early part of the ride, the train had more SkyTrain and TransLink people onboard than actual passengers -- the kids above were a few of the lucky riders!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These seats on the train fold up to allow room for wheelchairs and strollers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few SkyTrain attendants took a moment to examine the new maps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A cyclist brought his bike on board! The new configuration allows much more room for bikes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very important: the new SkyTrain has Buzzer boxes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since a lot of us were TransLink/SkyTrain/media staff, we were allowed to stay on the SkyTrain as it changed direction at Waterfront Station. Here’s the view coming in from the train yard, approaching the eastbound platform. Look at all the people taking pictures!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had to hop off the train at Metrotown and go back to work, but that gave me one last opportunity to capture the new train leaving the station. There’s the LED display on the front, saying King George!
> 
> If you haven’t seen them already, here are the past Buzzer blog posts on the new trains:
> 
> Improved interiors for the new SkyTrain cars
> The first of the new SkyTrain cars has arrived!
> As you may have heard in the podcast, I also ran into Bryan from The Transit Site on the train, so watch his site for more photos & video too.
> 
> And if you catch a ride on the new cars, please feel free to share your experience in the comments! Again, your photos and videos of the new car are more than welcome too


Source: Buzzer


----------



## Yellow Fever

Aren't they cute?


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## spongeg

under normal service will that stuff be locked up?

they look nice the new cars


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## deasine

spongeg said:


> under normal service will that stuff be locked up?
> 
> they look nice the new cars


Of course -___-" No different than a reg. MK II


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## deasine

Svartmetall said:


> Looks like a great investment for Vancouver - nice to see a major transit project like this in North America.
> 
> Just a quick question though, why is there (seemingly from the map) no integration between the Expo, Millenium and Canada lines at the Olympic village/Stadium-Chinatown stations?


Waterfront is the main transfer station as Allen just stated. However, it's horribly designed. For you to transfer from the Expo Line to the Canada Line, you must take the escalators up to the Waterfront Historic Train Station area, walk out of the Fare Paid Zone, and into the Canada Line Fare Paid Zone, down the escalators, and walk a long corridor to get to the Canada Line Waterfront Station. If they haven't cheaped out, it would just be the corridor plus an escalator up to the SkyTrain platform. Too bad. This would be added in the future.

A transfer from Vancouver City Centre to Granville is also possible but it's an unofficial transfer. It's possible to use Pacific Centre (which accessible to both lines) to connect the two stations. In the future, an underground walkway under Granville could be installed to better connect the two stations.

Olympic Village and Stadium are quite a ways from each other.

~~~

There won't be too many people transferring from the Expo Line/Millennium Line to the Canada Line. I can't really see why someone in Burnaby would ride the SkyTrain to downtown, then ride the Canada Line back to Richmond or YVR when they can take a connecting bus to the Canada Line.


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## Allen2

^^



deasine said:


> A transfer from Vancouver City Centre to Granville is also possible but it's an unofficial transfer. It's possible to use Pacific Centre (which accessible to both lines) to connect the two stations. In the future, an underground walkway under Granville could be installed to better connect the two stations.


I think they should really work on this first to take the load off Waterfront station. What I think would be better is to combine the two station and just simply call it, "Vancovuer City Centre"....I think this would be where they can start the underground pedestrian walkways and add retail ~


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## deasine

One more video, this one by MacWrite of SSP. Be sure to watch it in HD.


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## Allen2

FINALLY, TAFYRN POSTED SOME NEW PICS....
For complete photo update, visit:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/


*Vancouver City Centre*













































































































==================================================

*Sea Island*




























































































































































============================================

*YVR*


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## Allen2

FINALLY, TAFYRN POSTED SOME NEW PICS....
For complete photo update, visit:
http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/


*Vancouver City Centre*













































































































==================================================

*Sea Island*




























































































































































============================================

*YVR*


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## bluemeansgo

Does anyone find it ironic that S. Korea is using Canadian technology on the Yongin Everline (Bombardier MkII Trains) and Canada is using S. Korea's? (Rotem EMUs)


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## mr.x

^ the ships carrying the trains might have even passed by each other.


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## Gil

mr.x said:


> ^ the ships carrying the trains might have even passed by each other.


Maybe they both got the same shipper, and they figured out they could make money going both ways loaded with cargo!


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## mr.x

*Canada Line could be in service by mid-August*
Opening day will be free to public

Updated: Thu Jul. 16 2009 20:43:47
ctvbc.ca

The Canada Line rapid transit system is expected to open earlier than expected, possibly *as soon as mid-August. That's nearly four months ahead of schedule.
*
Expected to cost around $2 billion, it will make Vancouver *the first Canadian city to have a rapid transit link between its downtown core and its airport.*

The massive project is expected to change the way tens of thousands of commuters get around the Lower Mainland area.

But before it can open, there are still plenty of finishing touches being done at all the stations along the Canada Line route.

"I think people have been seeing the trains run as we've been testing them,'' said Steve Crombie, spokesman for InTransit BC, the company contracted to build and help fund the project.

" I think there has been a lot of curiosity and interest in what is this thing and how does it work."

"We have 19 kilometres of line and 16 stations,'' he said.

Once the system opens, *each one-way fare to and from Vancouver International Airport is expected to cost between $5 and $6.*

Travelling at speeds of up to 80 kilometres per hour, it will take passengers 25 minutes to get from Waterfront Station in downtown Vancouver to the airport.

Transportation engineers and planners at the City of Vancouver say the Canada Line is expected to help ease traffic congestion, by getting more commuters out of cars, cutting pollution.

At full capacity, each Canada Line train will hold 400 passengers. _(*cough*)_ They will be running trains every three minutes during peak service. The cars are much wider than SkyTrain, allowing them to accommodate luggage.
*
Travellers will ride for free on opening day, which could come as early as mid-August.*

With a report by CTV British Columbia's Peter Grainger

© 2009 CTVglobemedia All Rights Reserved.


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## deasine

Like jlousa mentioned, the last of the Canada Line open houses:


> *Construction Progress*
> The last Station Open House will be held on Saturday, July 25th at Vancouver City Centre Station. The Station will be open between 2:00 pm and 7:00 pm and is being held in conjunction with Granville Showcase.


Source: Canada Line, inTransitBC


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## BART Rider

One note: 100,000 daily passengers would be ambitious. That would a third of the Bay Area Rapid Transit's daily ridership on one line.


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## deasine

BART Rider said:


> One note: 100,000 daily passengers would be ambitious. That would a third of the Bay Area Rapid Transit's daily ridership on one line.


Not completely unreasonable because in 2007, the 98 B-Line had a ridership of 27 500 passengers per day. The number of passengers today is way beyond that and I'm not surprised if it's 35 000. As the suburban express coaches will terminate at Bridgeport STN instead of heading into downtown, all passengers will be feeding into the Canada Line. These routes include the 601, 602, 603, 604, 351, 352, and 354. It would also replace the 491, 492, and 496 express routes, meaning passengers from these routes will then be taking local Richmond routes into the Canada Line instead. Passengers from the ferry terminal will also be fed into the Canada Line to the Airport instead of currently transferring onto the 424, which will also be replaced. The Canada Line also serves as YVR's people-mover, meaning flight attendants and workers for Air Canada will be using this instead of their current shuttle service. I believe the Long Term Parking Lot would be moved to Templeton soon after, replacing the airport's shuttle service. The 430 route will also be shortened to terminate at Bridgeport STN instead of going to Richmond Centre, providing more frequent service, meaning passengers will be fed into the Canada Line again. So with all this feeding and transferring to provide more frequent service, don't be surprised about this 100 000 figure, albeit high. By the way, 2007 numbers also show SkyTrain having a 271 100 ridership but that's also way beyond that by now.


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## enkay

No, 100,000 is fairly reasonable.
Unlike BART which has 12-15 minute headways per line (at best), The Canada Line is to have frequencies of about 3 minutes (every 6 minutes to Richmond, and 6 to YVR). 
The Skytrain already carries almost 300,000 per day with the two existing lines; It's not crazy to estimate that this 3rd line will add another 100,000 to that total, especially considering that it serves an area previously untouched by rapid transit altogether.


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## BART Rider

It looks like there are already 3 lines. Won't this be the fourth?


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## deasine

Only two lines: Expo Line, Millennium Line. The third would be the Canada Line. Technically, the Canada Line could be considered as two lines as it does have trains going to the airport and trains going to Richmond, which are two complete different areas. Currently, there is 49.5 km of rapid transit track. Plus the 19km, we will have 68.5 km of fully segregated rapid transit, Canada's largest.


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## LtBk

I can't believe it cost $2.05 billion CAD to build a 19 km mass transit rail line , and not a fuckin light rail. In Baltimore, they been talking of building a new mass transit line since 2002(which Baltimore has been planning since 1960s), and still no progress!


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## mr.x

^ well, it does have rather short platforms (50-metres) but the operator does claim it has a 15,000 passenger per direction per hour capacity - which is decent for a light metro.


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## BART Rider

deasine said:


> Only two lines: Expo Line, Millennium Line. The third would be the Canada Line. Technically, the Canada Line could be considered as two lines as it does have trains going to the airport and trains going to Richmond, which are two complete different areas. Currently, there is 49.5 km of rapid transit track. Plus the 19km, we will have 68.5 km of fully segregated rapid transit, Canada's largest.


Than what's the Evergreen Line on the map on the first page?


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## deasine

BART Rider said:


> Than what's the Evergreen Line on the map on the first page?


To be built... 2014. Notice all the stations except for the West Coast Express ones (commuter train) are grey, which means it's a post-2010 station...


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## Allen2

*2009-07-14-vancouver-city-centre*









































































































































































=======================================
*2009-07-15-Waterfront*

































































































































































































ALL PHOTOS BY TAFYRN @ CANADA LINE BLOGSPOT

http://canadalinephotos.blogspot.com/


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## deasine

That's all I have today sorry. They are testing announcements today, I randomly heard "outbound platform" really loudly at Bridgeport. No announcements made about next stations on the trains for some reason, but they weren't displaying the final terminus on the LED signs either, so I'm guessing they were turned off for some reason. 

The way the platform signs work is that once the train arrives at the station, the time for the train disappears. As soon as the train closes its doors and moves, the platform sign moves everything up. Works quite fast.


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## adrimm

deasine said:


> That's all I have today sorry. They are testing announcements today, I randomly heard "outbound platform" really loudly at Bridgeport. No announcements made about next stations on the trains for some reason, but they weren't displaying the final terminus on the LED signs either, so I'm guessing they were turned off for some reason.
> 
> The way the platform signs work is that once the train arrives at the station, the time for the train disappears. As soon as the train closes its doors and moves, the platform sign moves everything up. Works quite fast.


My goodness, no need to apologise!! Thank you sooo much for sharing the pictures with us - very enlightening. I can't wait to ride it myself, hopefully sometime in the fall!


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## JustinB

This blog piece is getting a lot of attention:

*
Canada Line subsidy will be felt for years to come
By Charlie Smith*

The 19-kilometre Canada Line will open with great political fanfare on Monday (August 17).

The public will be allowed to ride for free from 1 p.m. to 9 p.m. on the line, which runs from Waterfront Station to Richmond Centre and to the airport.

But that's when the free ride will end. TransLink has already acknowledged that it might take until 2013 before the Canada Line generates 100,000 riders per day.

And that could be bad news for taxpayers and transit riders.

InTransit B.C. Limited Partnership, which is the private operator, has signed a 35-year deal with TransLink. And TransLink has guaranteed to subsidize Canada Line ridership shortfalls of less than 100,000 per day.

If TransLink, as a publicly funded body, wants to maintain public trust, it should report this subsidy on a quarterly basis.

TransLink is seeking an additional $450 million per year to enhance the transportation system. If it gets its wish, there will be new vehicle-registration charges as well as tolls on Metro Vancouver bridges, including those connecting Vancouver to the North Shore.

TransLink had better hope that the peak-oil theorists are wrong. Because if they're correct, it will hit the transportation authority in three ways:

* Airport traffic will diminish, reducing ridership on the Canada Line.

* Rising fuel prices will cause people to curtail driving, which will reduce the amount of fuel taxes (12 cents a litre) rolling into TransLink's coffers.

* Fewer people will be driving over tolled bridges including the Golden Ears Bridge. In the latter case, TransLink will have to offset this by providing greater subsidies to the private operator, just like it will do with the Canada Line if airport traffic diminishes.

The Canada Line is a primary reason why TransLink is in a financial pinch. I can recall two municipal politicians--Vision Vancouver Coun. Raymond Louie and former North Vancouver City mayor Barbara Sharp--voting in favour of the line in 2004 after a motion passed calling for a $1.35-billion cap on public financing.

The $1.35-billion figure is obvious fiction after the operating subsidies are included in the equation.

Louie and Sharp caved in the face of pressure from the Vancouver Board of Trade, the Vancouver Sun editorial board, the Vancouver Airport Authority, and the provincial and federal governments, which all wanted the line built.

If drivers, homeowners, and transit riders all end up paying a great deal more in the coming years, they can lay part of the blame on Louie and Sharp.

But they weren't the only TransLink directors responsible. Senator Larry Campbell, former Surrey mayor Doug McCallum, Surrey councillor Marvin Hunt, former Langley City mayor Marlene Grinnell, Richmond mayor Malcom Brodie, and former Coquitlam mayor Jon Kingsbury all voted in favour of the Canada Line. 

It's worth noting that Larry Campbell's friend, SFU criminologist Neil Boyd, cast the deciding vote at the regional board in favour of a $4-billion plan that helped finance TransLink's contribution. At the time, Boyd represented Bowen Island on the regional board.

If the Bowen Island council had left the then-mayor Lisa Barrett on the board, the transportation plan likely would never have been passed because Barrett was a staunch opponent of building the Canada Line as a P3 project. Barrett, now a Bowen Island councillor, also didn't believe the early forecasts that 100,000 people would be riding the Canada Line in 2009.

Because of a seemingly insignificant decision--replacing a regional board director in a tiny island municipality that had one vote at Metro Vancouver--the public might end up paying much higher transportation costs in the future. 


http://www.straight.com/article-247732/canada-line-subsidy-will-be-felt-years-come

If this line is being heavily subsidized, what was the point of building at a P3?


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## mr.x

^ it takes a few years for the public to get used to a service in order to reach its projected ridership and break even.

Sometime next year, the Canada Line will reach 70,000 boardings/day at the very least. At the same time, there's also a possibility they could reach the needed 100,000 by the end of next year.



Anyhow, the Canada Line opens in less than 4 hours!


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## rheintram

I think the author of the article above got some points wrong: Because peak-oil would actually mean a larger ridership in PT.


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## JustinB

mr.x said:


> ^ it takes a few years for the public to get used to a service in order to reach its projected ridership and break even.
> 
> Sometime next year, the Canada Line will reach 70,000 boardings/day at the very least. At the same time, there's also a possibility they could reach the needed 100,000 by the end of next year.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, the Canada Line opens in less than 4 hours!


Well, I do not expect a transit line to break even initially. Hence why I question the merits of making the line a P3.


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## deasine

Waterfront Stn New Map:








Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected

Waterfront Stn for Richmond-YVR Line:








Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected


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## deasine

Most exciting part of the sardine Canada Line conditions, the train door opened slightly! It was busy, and it was probably above crush load capacity.









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected

*The Next Station, Terminus Station YVR-Airport*
I already posted photos on these so here's just a few quick ones.









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected


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## deasine

Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected

We took the 424-Airport Stn bus instead of waiting at YVR-Airport Stn to avoid the two hour lineup wait -___-" We got off at Templeton and took the train! It's all good =D









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected


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## deasine

*Templeton*
One of the architectural gems of the Canada Line.









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









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## deasine

Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









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## deasine

Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









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Unfortunate:








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## deasine

Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected









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## deasine

*Bridgeport*








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Welcome to Japan!








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## deasine

*Marine Drive*








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Future Bus Loop








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## deasine

*Broadway-City Hall*








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## deasine

6154913
Video by Deasine - Hosted on Vimeo - Creative Commons Protected


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## deasine

> More than 80,000 take a free ride on Vancouver's new Canada Line
> Kelly Sinoski , Vancouver Sun: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 12:47 AM
> 
> METRO VANCOUVER — Tens of thousands of Metro Vancouver residents waited more than two hours Monday for a free ride on the new $2-billion Canada Line, backing up several stations and clogging pockets of Vancouver’s downtown core.
> 
> The lineups started forming hours before the new rapid transit line opened at 1 p.m. and by early afternoon, the crowds snaked around Vancouver’s Waterfront Station, filled up Granville Square and spilled over onto Hastings Street in the downtown, and into the departure lounge at the airport.
> 
> By 3 p.m., TransLink was urging passengers to get off at Waterfront, YVR and Richmond-Brighouse stations and wait in line for the return trip to let others have a chance to ride the train.
> 
> Five extra trains were added during the evening rush hour — bringing the total to 19 — to help ease the crush, while 11 extra buses were brought in to help reduce the overflow crowds waiting for the 98 B-Line between Vancouver and Richmond as well as the No. 41 and No. 99 B-Line along Broadway.
> 
> “We had just about every bus pushed into service,” TransLink spokesman Drew Snider said.
> 
> The lines were capped at certain stations at 7 p.m. although TransLink said no passengers would be left stranded.
> 
> “It’s a good test for the system in terms of carrying this many people,” TransLink spokesman Ken Hardie said. “The crowds have been big, but they’ve been patient.”
> 
> Close to 10,000 people an hour were riding the line and TransLink had counted 80,000 passengers by the time the service stopped at 9 p.m.
> 
> The service was free on opening day to celebrate the opening of the transit line linking Vancouver, Richmond and the airport.
> 
> Premier Gordon Campbell and Stockwell Day, the federal minister of international trade, cut a ribbon this morning at Vancouver International Airport to officially open the new line. Then they joined other dignitaries and media for a ride into downtown Vancouver.
> 
> The opening day drew everyone from seniors to families and disabled people. At least half a dozen wheelchairs and a man with a seeing-eye dog were among those on the first train.
> 
> At Waterfront, passengers were unfazed by the long wait for the train and remained in line despite warnings they would have to get off at the airport and wait another two hours to get back on again.
> 
> It was the same at Vancouver City Centre, where some trains were terminated to ease the crush at Waterfront. At the airport, crowds stretched from the platform, down the stairs to Level 3 and out onto the departures level.
> 
> “We don’t mind waiting,” said Vancouver resident Loro Cadman, as she stood in line at Granville Square. “We’re retired and it’s an historic thing.”
> 
> Cadman said the new rapid transit line should reduce the time it takes to make her frequent trips to Steveston. Now, rather than take a bus to Richmond Centre, she can hop on the train.
> 
> Several travellers, including Shea Ferguson of Fernie, were among the first to use the new line from the airport to downtown, while Niels Goverse got to the airport using the new line.
> 
> “It’s amazing,” Goverse said. “Otherwise I would have to use the 98 B-Line and it’s really packed so this is really good. It’s definitely a better system.”
> 
> Shauna Stanyer and her two children travelled from Port Coquitlam for “an adventure” on the new line. The trio had to wait two hours at Waterfront, but Stanyer said the trip was worth it and the family would definitely take the line to the airport whenever they travelled.
> 
> Hardie said that overall, the day went fairly smoothly. There were a few glitches, including things falling on the guideway, a cranky elevator and a few problems with the doors.
> 
> Several passengers inadvertently hit the emergency stop buttons, which forced the trains to halt on the bridge over the Fraser River or at stations, and required emergency personnel to rush to the scene.
> 
> The Canada Line, which is touted as the equivalent of a 10-lane highway, is expected to take 200,000 one-way automobile trips off the road when it reaches its forecast ridership. It will start up again Tuesday with the first train leaving Waterfront at 4:50 a.m. Fares are $3.75 one way.
> 
> Hardie expects the passenger load to be lighter Tuesday, which will help TransLink ramp up slowly toward Sept. 7 and the Labour Day rush when several express buses, including those from White Rock and Delta, will no longer go downtown but will be rerouted to Bridgeport Station. The 98 B-Line will also stop running at that time, in an attempt to funnel more people onto the new line.
> 
> [email protected]


From Global BC, originally from the Vancouver Sun

http://www.globaltvbc.com/More+than+take+free+ride+Vancouver+Canada+Line/1899494/story.html


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## mr.x

It was a gong show:

- 2-4 hour line ups for a handful of stations
- 2,000-5,000 people lining up at a handful of stations
- 100,000+ people used it

Some pictures of the lines:


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## mr.x

images from buzzer:


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## Haoting

Everybody loves a free ride. 

Vanocouver is the leading Canadian city when it comes to public transit. :cheers:


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## adrimm

Wow - I know a whole lot of people are riding just "becuase" but imho those lines & crowds do not bode well for demand/capacity in the future...

What is the next major event in downtown Vancouver that would draw people into the downtown/city (I mean big, like Symphony of Fire, etc).


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## mr.x

^ football games at BC Place, hockey games at GM Place, 2010 Olympics.


----------



## Never give up

Vancouver's Canada Line opens ahead of schedule
18 August 2009 

CANADA: Tens of thousands of people sampled the new Canada Line during eight hours of free rides on August 17, an opening that was more than three months ahead of schedule and within a budget of just over C$2bn. 

The crush of passengers, 30 000 just during the first three hours, caused hours-long waits with lines stretching out of some stations and along adjacent streets. There were celebrations with entertainment, food, drink and souvenirs at all 16 stations. 

Prior to the public service, British Columbia Premier Gordon Campbell was joined by national and local officials in a ribbon-cutting at Vancouver International Airport station and a ride on the ceremonial first train to Waterfront station downtown; the fully automated driverless metro, built by a public-private partnership, also serves the suburb of Richmond. A fleet of 20 Rotem two-car trainsets, 41 m long and 3 000 mm wide, will work the line. 

The 19 km project was completed three-and-a-half months early due to a combination of factors, according to a statement released by private-sector consortium InTransitBC, which designed, built and will operate and maintain the Canada Line. 

‘We were working with an excellent system design, we had very good engineering, a great construction team and very successful testing and commissioning of the trains and control system,’ said the statement. ‘In short, good planning and the hard work of about 2 000 individuals have made it possible for us to finish ahead of schedule and on budget.’ 

Read the full story in the September edition of Metro Report International.


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## deasine

85000 boardings were reported from the Canada Line automated counters found in the train doorways.


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## mr.x

*Canada Line Opening Day: some of the world's longest lineups to get onto a train*

I think this deserves its own topic, given how rare this event was....look at the pictures below.


Vancouver's Canada Line free ride opening was a gong show:


It was a gong show:
*
- 2-4 hour line ups for a handful of stations, at least 1-hour wait at all stations.
- 2,000-5,000 people lining up at a handful of stations
- 85,000+ people used the line today, even though it was only open for 8 hours*







Some pictures of the lines:
































































images from buzzer:




































































































from flickr.


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## zaphod

Could a transport expert answer this question: why does mega-crowds happen on new systems?

To me 85,000 doesn't sound like a huge ridership figure. 85,000 /8= 10,625 pax/hr --> 18 hours x 10,625= that's only 191,250 riders for a normal day. Compare to say, Boston, its little 2 car trolleys does much more than that in normal service.


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## mr.x

^ answers:

- on opening day, people travel from terminus to terminus. They don't get off the train to let others get on, and for the Canada Line most people simply stayed on the train once they reached the terminus and rode back. The average commuter doesn't do that.
- the Canada Line itself is a small system, with 40-metre platforms/trains. There are 20-trains. It would be unable to accommodate 191,000 people/day, it would require a lot more trains than what we have today and probably longer platforms as well.


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## diz

LOL Canadian queue lines are so awesome! long and squiggly! :lol:

I remember lining up for breakfast at the Calgary stampede and saw the same line.


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## rheintram

Really cool stuff! Too bad the whole line was built with such short plattforms - longer ones would have come in handy in times like these.


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## Plumber73

Ha ha. Good thing an opening day won't happen again on this line. 

Good lord though. Why can't people wait a day and pay a few dollars? If I had seen any line at all I would have turned around and gone somewhere else. And I thought I was a transit nerd. :nuts:


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## JustinB

rheintram said:


> Really cool stuff! Too bad the whole line was built with such short plattforms - longer ones would have come in handy in times like these.


The line can be expanded. But it will be quite expensive.


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## mr.x

*TUESDAY, AUGUST 18TH (DAY 2) - CANADA LINE RIDERSHIP STATISTICS*
- 4:30 am to 9:30 am: 9,000 riders
- as of 2 pm: 33,000 riders
- expected by evening rush hour: 50,000 riders


It looks like the line will have at least 60,000 riders by the time it shuts down at 1 am later tonight.




*Day Two brings lighter traffic — and parking issues — to Canada Line*

By Kelly Sinoski, Vancouver Sun
August 18, 2009 3:32 PM

METRO VANCOUVER - Some Canada Line commuters in Richmond are finding there’s no such thing as a free park.

At least two vehicles were towed from the Richmond Centre parking lot Tuesday afternoon after security staff saw their drivers exiting the lot and heading to the Richmond-Brighouse station, mall spokeswoman Leslie Matheson said.

Another three vehicles were seen coming into the parking lot and turning around after noticing the tow truck, she said.

On opening day Monday, when more than 85,000 people lined up for hours for a free ride on the train, some 30 warning tickets were also handed out.

“Our parking lot is for the exclusive use of our customers while they’re shopping,” she said.

Shopping centres in both Vancouver and Richmond say they will bolster security to ensure Canada Line customers aren’t using their lots for daily parking.

Canada Line officials have said there is no need — or room — for park-and-ride lots as the stations connect with transit and are mostly in high-density urban areas. As a result there is only one park-and-ride facility, at Bridgeport Station, along the 19-kilometre line stretching from Vancouver to Richmond and the airport.

That lot is owned and operated by the Great Canadian Gaming Corporation, which owns the adjacent River Rock Casino Resort. Parking spaces will be reserved for 1,200 vehicles during the day and 600 vehicles at night at a cost of $2.

Meanwhile, passengers were still flocking to the Canada Line Tuesday albeit at a slower than pace than on opening day when they didn’t have to pay the $3.75 single trip fare. InTransitBC spokesman Steve Crombie said about 9,000 people had boarded the train by 9:30 this morning and the numbers grew to 33,000 just after 2 p.m.

More than 50,000 boardings are expected to be recorded by the evening rush hour.

Crombie said light-beam technology is used to automatically count the number of people coming into the fare-paid zone. TransLink plans to institute fare-gates or turnstiles, along with smart cards, at the Canada Line stations, but not until 2012.

A “request for qualifications” — to see who is qualified to do the project — is expected this fall. The $100-million project, which would be funded by the provincial and federal governments.

Crombie said the two busiest stations Tuesday were Waterfront and the airport, suggesting people were still checking out the new Vancouver-Richmond line.

Some passengers, however, were having trouble paying for their fares because of new technology in the ticket-vending machines.

TransLink spokesman Drew Snider said the machines accept debit and credit card transactions, but the upgraded technology requires the credit or debit card to be left in the slot longer than on SkyTrain ticket machines.

Passengers must wait until three yellow lights have lit up on the TVM debit slot before taking the card out, he said.

Ridership on the Canada Line isn’t expected to increase until Sept. 7 when the transportation authority will cancel some buses or stop them at Bridgeport or Brighouse stations to funnel more people onto the Canada Line.

At that time, the 98 B-Line between Vancouver and Richmond will be cancelled. Long-haul buses from White Rock and Delta will be rerouted to Bridgeport Station rather than going into Vancouver, while local Richmond buses will be stopped at Richmond-Brighouse.

[email protected]
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun


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## mr.x

*TUESDAY RIDERSHIP/FIRST NORMAL DAY OF SERVICE: 70,000*



*Canada Line traffic settles down on Day 2*


By Frank Luba, The Province
August 19, 2009 12:05 AM


David Nixon and Briana Wutsch waited until Tuesday to take their two-year-old son, Osiris, for a little ride on the newest train in town — the $2.05 billion Canada Line.

The trio were among the 70,000 people to hop the train on its first official day of operation.

The family lives near the Yaletown-Roundhouse station and were going to try the system Monday — until they saw the massive lineups for the free rides offered as a pre-opening public treat.

“It was too long a wait,” said Nixon.

Their plan was solid, as they got to experience the system Tuesday without being packed into the cars like sardines in a tin.

More than 82,000 riders jammed Canada Line during Monday’s eight-hour preview of the 19-kilometre connection between downtown Vancouver, Richmond and Vancouver International Airport. InTransitBC spokesman Steve Crombie said only about 50,000 riders were expected, and the extra passengers forced the line to put on 19 two-car trains instead of the 15 initially used. The planned schedule was dropped too.

“We started trains basically as often as we could,” said Crombie.

Paid service started Tuesday morning at 4:50 a.m. from Waterfront Station and by 9:30 a.m., electronic counters showed just 9,000 people had crossed into fare-paid zones where they needed tickets. The number jumped to 33,000 by 2:15 p.m and hit 60,000 just before 6 p.m. — “so we’re anticipating we’ll hit at least 70,000 for the day,” said Crombie.

Unlike the waits Monday that were as long as two hours at some stations, commuters — including a surprising number with suitcases headed to the airport — got a more “normal” view of the line than Monday’s almost excursion-like trip.

Nixon, 34, and Wutsch, 25, liked what they saw.

“It reminds me of other cities where I have taken metros or subways,” said Nixon, who owns a chain of clothing stores.

Wutsch thinks the line will be most useful for Richmond residents wanting to get into Vancouver, but she plans to use it for trips to the airport when she travels with her toddler.

“It will be nice not to have to drive,” she said.

Both were particularly happy the line has finally been finished.

“We’ve been dealing with the construction for three years,” said Nixon.

“We’ve been living in a gated community,” joked Wutsch of the controlled access in their neighborhood. “It was a little rough. The dust and the noise and the trucks — but I guess it’s worth it.”

As with almost anything new, there’s always a little confusion, and that continued Tuesday as people struggled to figure out which train they needed.

There was also a hiccup with the new ticket-vending machines. People had trouble purchasing tickets with debit or credit cards because the new machines need to retain the cards longer than the older ticket machines. The new machines have three yellow lights and users must wait for all three lights to be lit up before withdrawing their card.

Making it easy to pay is a priority for the line, because its business case was predicated on attracting 100,000 riders a day — a total that was supposed to be reached by 2013.

TransLink spokesman Ken Hardie said current ridership is not an accurate “barometer” of ridership because buses won’t be fully integrated with the line until Sept. 7, the day of the next regular bus schedule change.

“After Sept. 6, after Labor Day, is when all of the buses start focusing on the Bridgeport Station and Brighouse [station],” he said.

— with a file from Jack Keating




pics by raggedy13 at ssp


Waterfront









Loved these photographs









Waterfront to VCC:









Leaving VCC to Yaletown (filling up):









Waiting at Yaletown for southbound train (after getting off and looking around the station briefly):









Yaletown to Olympic Village/Broadway-City Hall:









Getting off at Broadway:









People heading northbound at Broadway





































Back at Broadway after a quick bite to eat. Just missed the previous train but the ~6 minutes went by quite quickly:









Southbound train pretty busy









Some water clearly visible









And its another full train


----------



## Silverhalide

adrimm said:


> Wow - I know a whole lot of people are riding just "becuase" but imho those lines & crowds do not bode well for demand/capacity in the future...





deasine said:


> 85000 boardings were reported from the Canada Line automated counters found in the train doorways.


Yeah, this was a concern I had. What happens when we get to the projected 100K daily ridership? Will people wait in line for 2 hours to get to/from work? Personally, I don't think so.


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## mr.x

Silverhalide said:


> Yeah, this was a concern I had. What happens when we get to the projected 100K daily ridership? Will people wait in line for 2 hours to get to/from work? Personally, I don't think so.


The problem with opening day was the 85,000 people we had on the system was within just 8 hours; the line was only open from 1 pm to 9 pm.

As well, people were taking trips from terminus to terminus...meaning it didn't allow space for people to board the trains along the route. People also didn't get off at the terminus, instead opted to ride back from where they came from...again, it didn't allow people waiting on the platforms to get onto trains.

This certainly isn't the average commuter pattern, it would never happen again.

The problem is we only have 20 trains right now, enabling us to run 4-minute frequencies from Downtown to Bridgeport and 8-minutes in the airport and Richmond spur lines.

If we get more trains, which we obviously will, train frequencies can be increased to 90-secs from Downtown to Bridgeport and 3-minutes in the airport and Richmond spur lines. That's quite significant.

We can also add a third car to the 2-car trains.


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## mr.x

I am wildly impressed by this:




*Canada Line riders fill Translink's coffers with cash*
Service’s popularity will reduce subsidy; line averages 80,000 trips per day in first five days of service

By Kelly Sinoski, Vancouver Sun
August 21, 2009 8:01 PM

VANCOUVER - *The Canada Line could reach its ridership goals sometime next year rather than in 2013 as forecast, TransLink spokesman Ken Hardie said Friday.*

That would likely save TransLink — and taxpayers — millions in subsidies to the Canada Line’s private operator.

*Hardie made the optimistic assessment after the line averaged 80,000 trips per day in its first five days of operations.*

It had been forecast to reach 100,000 trips a day in 2013, and TransLink is required to subsidize the operator until that point is reached.

*“The 100,000 ridership represents the point when the line generates enough revenue, with bus service savings to cover payment to the concessionaire,” Hardie said.*

He said the steady passenger loads this week have been good news for the Canada Line.

Between 7 a.m. on Wednesday and 7 a.m. Thursday, the line recorded more than $45,000 in ticket sales, with $37,000 of that in cash and fare-saver tickets, $5,700 in credit and $2,900 in debit.

The number of cash sales, he said, likely means people are testing the system ahead of Sept. 7, when TransLink cancels or diverts several of its long-haul bus routes to Bridgeport Station to encourage passengers to ride the Canada Line.

“What that means is there’s a higher level of sampling going on now,” Hardie said, adding, “Things have got off to an excellent start on the Canada Line.”

*The biggest peak in ridership has been in the afternoons, coinciding with the arrivals and departures of most international flights.

“There’s an incredibly steady flow of passengers,” said airport spokeswoman Rebecca Catley. “We’re seeing a lot more people coming off with bags. People have embraced it quickly.”*

*The airport has added extra staff on the floor to guide travellers to their departure lounges or help them find the train once they arrive in Vancouver.*

August is typically the airport’s busiest month, with the third weekend usually recording the highest number of passengers coming through.

But Catley said it’s not just travellers using the Canada Line: More people are coming to the airport to watch planes land and take off from the airport’s new observation deck.

“It’s just surprising. That area has always been very quiet and now it’s teeming with people,” she said. “Everything has gone very smoothly; the people are very excited.”

Jason Chan, spokesman for Canada Line operator ProTrans BC, said other busy stations are Waterfront in downtown Vancouver and Richmond’s Bridgeport, the only station where TransLink has a park-and-ride facility at the nearby River Rock Casino.

Just before 4 p.m. Friday, swarms of people were pouring in and out of Waterfront as packed trains headed out toward Richmond-Brighouse and the airport.

Kathleen Lapointe, who lives in Richmond, took the train into Vancouver for a course and said she’s “planning to use it all the time now.”

“I’m very happy,” she said. “I’m so glad it’s here.”

[email protected]
© Copyright © The Vancouver Sun






This is how they determined the 100,000/day ridership would come from years ago:


1) Bus Transfers (from north-south trolley routes in Vancouver and especially from short-turning south of Fraser buses at Bridgeport)
- 40,000 riders

2) 98 B-Line bus transfer
- 30,000 riders

3) New Ridership
- 30,000 riders

TOTAL
- 100,000 riders


Obviously, bus transfers from existing bus services including the 98 B-Line have already occurred. But it's absolutely amazing that there's already 80,000/day....I'm beginning to think they really underestimated new ridership.

I think they will have to start planning to buy more Canada Line trains in 2010. The twenty trains we have aren't going to cut it for very much longer at this rate. But the question is, who pays for the trains which cost $6-million each ($3-million each car)? And how many more trains? An order for more trains next year would mean the trains would be delivered here in early-2013 at the very latest.


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## mtj73

Plumber73 said:


> Ha ha. Good thing an opening day won't happen again on this line.
> 
> Good lord though. Why can't people wait a day and pay a few dollars? If I had seen any line at all I would have turned around and gone somewhere else. And I thought I was a transit nerd. :nuts:


If was there I would probably line up as well, not to save a few dollars but show support to the new line, it looks too me that is what most people are doing.

I hope people in south Asian countries will learn to line up one day.


----------



## Plumber73

mtj73 said:


> If was there I would probably line up as well, not to save a few dollars but show support to the new line, it looks too me that is what most people are doing.
> 
> I hope people in south Asian countries will learn to line up one day.


Yea, it does show support. But a 2 to 3 hour wait is ridiculous. People can show their support the next day, and the next...


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## BearCave

OMG people must be so bored in Vancouver.


----------



## Yellow Fever

Glad to hear that so many people are using the trains. Hopefully, that number will keep getting bigger as time goes on! :cheers:


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## deasine

On the SkyTrain at Commercial-Broadway, I noticed TransLink installed the north signs on Platform 3 incorrectly... the signs for Platform 1 & 2 were pointing south rather than pointing north. Le Sigh.


----------



## OettingerCroat

awesome!!! i'm glad it opened


----------



## CharlieP

"Lineups"? Don't you have the word "queue" in Canada? The English-speaking part, that is. :lol:


----------



## BoulderGrad

CharlieP said:


> "Lineups"? Don't you have the word "queue" in Canada? The English-speaking part, that is. :lol:


Quene is used in french as well


----------



## DHLawrence

CharlieP said:


> "Lineups"? Don't you have the word "queue" in Canada? The English-speaking part, that is. :lol:


Nope, even though we kept our 'ou's and 're's, a lot of our vocabulary has become Americanized--lift became elevator, 'way out' signs became 'exit' signs, etc. There's still one station on the Toronto subway that directs passengers to the 'car park' though. As with most things in our history and culture, English-speaking Canada is dead centre between the US and the UK, and is leaning heavily towards the US.


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## Huhu

CharlieP said:


> "Lineups"? Don't you have the word "queue" in Canada? The English-speaking part, that is. :lol:


I say both "big line-up" or "long queue."


----------



## raccc

mr.x said:


> ^ certainly, but on the downside of that is Translink will have to find tens of millions to buy more trains much earlier than originally planned ($6-million per 2-car train). We're at 80,000/day right now and that's WITHOUT bus integration, I think we can easily reach 100,000 within a matter of weeks with south of Fraser buses terminating at Bridgeport, the elimination of the 98 B-Line, people going back to school, and the majority of the office worker population returning to workl.


It is inTransit that would buy the cars. TransLink would likely have to increase the payments to inTransit to cover the capital and operating costs. This should be no big problem though. With the ridership comes extra revenue that could cover all or most of the cost.


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## Rhino

I was in Vancouver for a brief moment this evening and I noticed a large amount of construction between the lanes of the freeway through the cities. I'm sorry if I sound like a moron, but is that a future sky train expansion?


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## particlez

the trains should be a no-brainer. if the demand presents itself, the extra cost of the trains will pay for themselves in the form of less sprawl, less auto pollution, etc. etc. 

but then things just aren't so rational in the real world. note the unwillingness of the politicians and the local nimbys to upzone the areas around vancouver's canada line stations. the areas are nice and upper middle class, but a growing city should find a way to accommodate more people in its core. low density, balloon framed single family houses with no real distinguishing features are just a waste of the canada line's potential.

*sighs* hopefully the limitations of the short stations won't come back to haunt translink.


----------



## deasine

particlez said:


> the trains should be a no-brainer. if the demand presents itself, the extra cost of the trains will pay for themselves in the form of less sprawl, less auto pollution, etc. etc.
> 
> but then things just aren't so rational in the real world. note the unwillingness of the politicians and the local nimbys to upzone the areas around vancouver's canada line stations. the areas are nice and upper middle class, but a growing city should find a way to accommodate more people in its core. low density, balloon framed single family houses with no real distinguishing features are just a waste of the canada line's potential.
> 
> *sighs* hopefully the limitations of the short stations won't come back to haunt translink.


Short stations aren't really as big of a limitation as the lengthy single guideway at Richmond.


----------



## particlez

^i was thinking of that one too. supposedly richmond is concentrating its future growth in its city center. it's ironic that the single track section of the canada line will actually be rezoned for more efficient land uses.

the short length platforms, the single track along its final few stations, the lack of upzoning are all just symptomatic of a flawed system. the canada line is undoubtedly a step up from the past, but it could have been so much more. the twenty-something year old millennium line has stations that are still surrounded by low density housing, and low value warehouses. apart from some large parcels of brownfield land, very little has been done to utilize the surrounding areas efficiently.

blame the short term financial bottom line of the public private partnership, the regressive and politically powerful nimby faction, the inability of urban planning academics to convey their point across.


----------



## deasine

particlez said:


> ^i was thinking of that one too. supposedly richmond is concentrating its future growth in its city center. it's ironic that the single track section of the canada line will actually be rezoned for more efficient land uses.
> 
> the short length platforms, the single track along its final few stations, the lack of upzoning are all just symptomatic of a flawed system. the canada line is undoubtedly a step up from the past, but it could have been so much more. the twenty-something year old millennium line has stations that are still surrounded by low density housing, and low value warehouses. apart from some large parcels of brownfield land, very little has been done to utilize the surrounding areas efficiently.
> 
> blame the short term financial bottom line of the public private partnership, the regressive and politically powerful nimby faction, the inability of urban planning academics to convey their point across.


We should be glad that the entire Richmond portion isn't a single guideway, as Richmond wanted earlier. 

The public-private partnership isn't to blame as the private company doesn't come up with the terms of the Canada Line. The Provincial Government and RAVCO drafted the requirements. The P3 might actually be the success of the Canada Line: think about it, overall, customer service (satisfaction) and cleanliness of the Canada Line is already much better than the Expo and Millennium Lines. I know, it's new, and it might not be fair to say that the Canada Line is cleaner than the Expo Line, but I've seen cleaners walk in and out inspecting and cleaning the trains not just at the termini, but throughout the line. Keep in mind, ProTrans BC only makes 100% of its profit if the Canada Line is kept to standards, so it's their best interest to maintain the system that we have today. If this was TransLink, things might not necessarily be so rosy.


----------



## G5man

If you're talking about Highway 1, they are widening it as apart of Gateway so they can add HOV for RapidBus over to Surrey.


----------



## particlez

^if i remember correctly, the criteria for the p3 was to transport 15000 passengers per hour. most of the other details were left to the 'private' partner.

while the actual rail lines were the most expensive investment by far, the stations themselves were lowballed. the utilitarian designs can be forgiven. unfortunately, the short train platforms are a problem even now. even if more rolling stock was added and frequencies were at their shortest, the line could still not cope with the masses of commuters. i guess others can justify the canada line as a compromise between fiscal responsibility and serving the public. yet because there was a lack of oversight and/or long term planning, the canada line ends up wasting some of its potential.

it's difficult to compare the service and safety of the canada line to the previous two lines. for one, the canada line rolls through uniformly upper middle class areas, and the canada line has an incentive to maximize fare recovery. thus we much more ticket checks.

i've had to work with the city of vancouver's planning department. while many/most of its employees are professional and well-qualified, they too complain of the byzantine political backstabbing and backroom dealing.


----------



## isaidso

CharlieP said:


> "Lineups"? Don't you have the word "queue" in Canada? The English-speaking part, that is. :lol:


No, many English words have been Canadianized.


----------



## deasine

particlez said:


> ^if i remember correctly, the criteria for the p3 was to transport 15000 passengers per hour. most of the other details were left to the 'private' partner.
> 
> while the actual rail lines were the most expensive investment by far, the stations themselves were lowballed. the utilitarian designs can be forgiven. unfortunately, the short train platforms are a problem even now. even if more rolling stock was added and frequencies were at their shortest, the line could still not cope with the masses of commuters. i guess others can justify the canada line as a compromise between fiscal responsibility and serving the public. yet because there was a lack of oversight and/or long term planning, the canada line ends up wasting some of its potential.
> 
> it's difficult to compare the service and safety of the canada line to the previous two lines. for one, the canada line rolls through uniformly upper middle class areas, and the canada line has an incentive to maximize fare recovery. thus we much more ticket checks.
> 
> i've had to work with the city of vancouver's planning department. while many/most of its employees are professional and well-qualified, they too complain of the byzantine political backstabbing and backroom dealing.


That requirement was by RAVCO. Yes, everything else was by the private company, but it's RAVCO's responsibility to set all the requirements. They could've insisted on 50m+ platforms from the beginning, but they didn't do so.

The shorter platforms aren't really that big of a problem right now; it's more of a problem at Bridgeport Stn, when that one should've been built out to 50 metres from the beginning. ProTrans BC staff is handling platform crowding quite oddly: they let only few passengers on the platform but stop everyone at the ticket concourse to prevent crowding on the platforms, leading to a line. I can understand some sort of crowd control is necessary, but not really to that extent. If we double our train stock right now, which is entirely possible though that's not going to happen for a while, the system will be able to manage very well. The crowding is a really big concern in Richmond, however, which needs a much higher frequency.

With regards to our station designs, while they are normal, I think they are built to last long. Everyone doesn't like the bland colour of the tiles at the stations, but those hide the dirt quite well. We'll have more colour injected into the Canada Line stations when public art will be installed. I think we got the best line for only $2 billion.


----------



## particlez

i don't know why you'd defend the p3 system. it's hard not to see both ravco and the contractor both being disingenuous. many of the terms were changed unilaterally and without proper disclosure.

the contractor just wanted to maximize their profits. and ravco was credulous/inept/corrupt enough to allow a compromised system. 

that $2 billion didn't get you the best. the contractor got the best outcome for its own financial interests. the government got some momentary flak, but has survived. the various taxpayers and commuters got a system with an artificially low capacity.


----------



## mr.x

The P3 system set up for RAV was surely a huge mistake. The scope of the P3 was simply too large for a project like this...not saying P3's don't work, but something of a much smaller scale like independent station maintenance P3's (with Oakridge mall for example) may have been more ideal if we were going to go with the P3 route, even though I personally would have much preferred a entirely publicly built and operated line.

That and the horridly lack of foresight and planning by RAVCO with how they wrote the requirements.

This city always builds for today, never for the future.

And don't get me started with the overzealous crowd control methods ProTransBC has...it's not only ridiculously inefficient, it's also sad. Crowd control methods are like an amusement park ride - unlike any other metro in the world.

The project is a [email protected]


----------



## mr.x

deasine said:


> The P3 might actually be the success of the Canada Line: think about it, overall, customer service (satisfaction) and cleanliness of the Canada Line is already much better than the Expo and Millennium Lines. I know, it's new, and it might not be fair to say that the Canada Line is cleaner than the Expo Line, but I've seen cleaners walk in and out inspecting and cleaning the trains not just at the termini, but throughout the line. Keep in mind, ProTrans BC only makes 100% of its profit if the Canada Line is kept to standards, so it's their best interest to maintain the system that we have today. If this was TransLink, things might not necessarily be so rosy.


That's a pretty steep price to pay for just having a cleaner system with smiling attendees...I'm definitely impressed with the customer service and cleanliness, but if I had to choose between that and a long-lasting system I'd choose the latter in a heartbeat. 


The limitations of the Canada Line will haunt us down the road.


----------



## deasine

Great news for the Canada Line, linking downtown Vancouver with YVR-Airport and downtown Richmond. There were many skeptics of the 100 000 ridership mark, but it looks like they are proven quite wrong. 



> Canada Line daily ridership breaks 100,000 occasionally, average at 92,852 including weekends!
> Ian Bailey
> 
> Vancouver — From Tuesday's Globe and Mail Published on Monday, Dec. 28, 2009 8:34PM EST Last updated on Monday, Dec. 28, 2009 8:35PM EST
> 
> The Canada Line earned Ryan Campbell's affection by sparing him the daily ordeal of taking four buses and walking two kilometres to get to his job in Richmond.
> 
> Much of that grind for the 20-year-old West Vancouver resident has been erased by the $2-billion system, which began running last August and is the first in Canada to link a downtown to its airport.
> 
> But it's the line past the airport to central Richmond that cheers Mr. Campbell.
> 
> On a chill, blustery December night, Mr. Campbell is far from the airport, disembarking from Richmond-Brighouse – the southernmost station – for a quick walk to his customer service job at a London Drugs outlet.
> 
> “It's perfect,” Mr. Campbell said when asked about his views of the Line. “If [the Canada Line] wasn't around, I couldn't make it to this place I'm working at so easily.”
> 
> Because of stops through Richmond and at such Vancouver-area fixtures as the airport, City Hall, the burgeoning Olympic Village neighbourhood, Yaletown and the downtown SeaBus terminal, the Canada Line has picked up considerable support.
> 
> Daily Canada Line ridership has occasionally topped 100,000, which is the break-even threshold for the system covering its operating costs. That level comes about three years ahead of schedule.
> 
> Including weekends, the Canada Line is averaging 92,852 riders a day, said Steve Crombie, spokesman for InTransitBC, builder and operator of the system.
> 
> “The trend is increasing. We've been seeing weekly increases since the line started,” he said.
> 
> Critics focus on the fact that the Canada Line came before the much-needed Evergreen Line to the northeast, the devastating impact of street-gouging construction on businesses in the Cambie Village area of central Vancouver, and that some bus routes were trimmed or eliminated as a result of its opening.
> 
> But the line is crowded with its fans.
> 
> They include Steven Nelson, a 34-year-old Bell Canada technician who is in the Lower Mainland from Toronto these days for work related to the 2010 Olympics.
> 
> Mr. Nelson, also disembarking at Richmond-Brighouse, said that without the line he would have been relying on buses to get to work, which he suggested was not an enticing prospect.
> 
> “Overall, I think the service is great.”
> 
> Gordon Price, a six-term Vancouver city councillor who is now director of the city program at Simon Fraser University, said things appear to be going “pretty damn well” for the system.
> 
> He said he has been struck by the number of passengers toting and pushing their luggage. Mr. Price said he was skeptical business travellers would be interested in taking a system that compelled them to take their luggage to and from the stations.
> 
> “What I hadn't taken into account was the downsizing of luggage to carry-on and wheels. You can sure see it, pretty dramatic,” he said. “It brought a class of people, who normally didn't take transit into their thinking and got them aboard … both literally and enthusiastically.”
> 
> Mr. Price has been using the line to get from his home in Vancouver's West End to the downtown campus of SFU, taking a bus to the Vancouver-City Centre stop for the line.
> 
> “It's kind of an enjoyable trip in the sense that I get to see that transit culture in action, which I kind of enjoy.”
> 
> He also uses it to get to Vancouver City Hall, the airport, and has used it to go for dim sum at the critically acclaimed Chinese restaurants in Richmond.
> 
> His one big criticism: No station in the midst of the shops, restaurants and other businesses of bustling Cambie Village.
> 
> “Particularly after the hardship they went through, it would have made sense,” he said.


Via Globe and Mail


----------



## urbanfan89

Looks like InTransitBC will be forced to pay massive amounts to Translink. Within, say, two years, InTransitBC will declare bankruptcy to avoid paying its obligations.


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## deasine

urbanfan89 said:


> Looks like InTransitBC will be forced to pay massive amounts to Translink. Within, say, two years, InTransitBC will declare bankruptcy to avoid paying its obligations.


Wait... why is ProTransBC (known earlier as InTransitBC) paying?


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## lightrail

urbanfan89 said:


> Looks like InTransitBC will be forced to pay massive amounts to Translink. Within, say, two years, InTransitBC will declare bankruptcy to avoid paying its obligations.


I don't think Protransit (Intransitbc or whatever they're called now) will have to pay - it just means that they will recover their costs through the farebox, so Translink will not have to pay a subsidy if ridership is above 100,000 per day.


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## Electrify

For those who don't frequent the Toronto forum, here are some pics I snapped of some SkyTrain cars in the GTA which I assume are en route to Vancouver.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1011841


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## Plumber73

Electrify said:


> For those who don't frequent the Toronto forum, here are some pics I snapped of some SkyTrain cars in the GTA which I assume are en route to Vancouver.
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1011841


Yes. Those would be for Vancouver. I'm sure those pictured are here by now.


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## deasine

Canada Line News:
Ridership recently recorded at a record 110 000 passengers per day. Put that in relation, initial expected ridership was 70 000 - 80 000 passengers per day.

In other news, the new SkyTrain vehicles have featured in Railway Interiors International 2009. I have my own bias, but I have to say, there are few metros in the world that have interiors of the same caliber as our new SkyTrain vehicles, heck probably not even our older MK II cars either. When our new Canada Line trains came, I was actually incredibly disappointed of the overall cookie-cutter design.

That being said, I do have a few criticisms for the newer generation cars. While acceleration and deceleration is much more quiet and smooth, the final stop arriving at the station is not smooth (in fact, much more rough than the older MK II and MK I vehicles). The addition of LED maps are nice, but there aren't any interior LED signs, which would help many. Besides, the LED map does not display SkyTrain connections at transfer stations, unlike the MTR map, and only flashes the next station right before approaching the platform. There's also a a/c heat issue with the newer ones, but I think that's fixed already. I hope it is at least.









Photograhy by Buzzer Blog

Here's the entire article available online:
http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/7b47c228#/7b47c228/1

More photos from the press conference, as Vehicle #348-#347, the last of the new MK II fleet, is now in service.









Photography from Buzzer Blog









Photography from Buzzer Blog

A few photos of the interior:








Photography from Buzzer Blog









Photography from Buzzer Blog









Photography from Buzzer Blog









Photography from Buzzer Blog

I will post photos of the Brussels Streetcar for the inaugural Olympic Line ride live tomorrow.


----------



## deasine

Canada Line News:
Ridership recently recorded at a record 110 000 passengers per day. Put that in relation, initial expected ridership was 70 000 - 80 000 passengers per day.

In other news, the new SkyTrain vehicles have featured in Railway Interiors International 2009. I have my own bias, but I have to say, there are few metros in the world that have interiors of the same caliber as our new SkyTrain vehicles, heck probably not even our older MK II cars either. When our new Canada Line trains came, I was actually incredibly disappointed of the overall cookie-cutter design.

That being said, I do have a few criticisms for the newer generation cars. While acceleration and deceleration is much more quiet and smooth, the final stop arriving at the station is not smooth (in fact, much more rough than the older MK II and MK I vehicles). The addition of LED maps are nice, but there aren't any interior LED signs, which would help many. Besides, the LED map does not display SkyTrain connections at transfer stations, unlike the MTR map, and only flashes the next station right before approaching the platform. There's also a a/c heat issue with the newer ones, but I think that's fixed already. I hope it is at least.









Photograhy by Buzzer Blog

Here's the entire article available online:
http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/7b47c228#/7b47c228/1

More photos from the press conference, as Vehicle #348-#347, the last of the new MK II fleet, is now in service.









Photography from Buzzer Blog









Photography from Buzzer Blog

A few photos of the interior:








Photography from Buzzer Blog









Photography from Buzzer Blog









Photography from Buzzer Blog









Photography from Buzzer Blog


----------



## BoulderGrad

For those of us Yankees coming up to the Olympics from the south (Specifically from Seattle on I-5), what is the best PNR to head to to catch the train into downtown? I figured that would be easier than trying to forde our way into DT to find parking. It would be cool to start at a stop on the brand new Canada Line, but I've never ridden Skytrain before, so really its all new to me.

edit: I should add I'm going to one of the hockey games at GM pla.... I mean... Canada Hockey Place


----------



## deasine

BoulderGrad said:


> For those of us Yankees coming up to the Olympics from the south (Specifically from Seattle on I-5), what is the best PNR to head to to catch the train into downtown? I figured that would be easier than trying to forde our way into DT to find parking. It would be cool to start at a stop on the brand new Canada Line, but I've never ridden Skytrain before, so really its all new to me.
> 
> edit: I should add I'm going to one of the hockey games at GM pla.... I mean... Canada Hockey Place


I'm going to ask you to forward your question onto the SSC:Olympics forum. I know there hasn't been an announcement yet, but all the Olympics and Olympic related discussions will be in a centralized location at SSC: BC: 2010 Winter Olympics.

Here it is:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1048613

You can be the first member outside of Vancouver to know and post info


----------



## deasine

Vancouver's demonstration streetcar form Olympic Village Station to Granville Island is up and running. Because it is operated by City of Vancouver and not part of the metro transit system, it is free! Last day of service is March 21st, where the streetcars will be returned. Some of you may recognize these streetcars, as they are from Brussles, courtesy of Bombardier and STIB. The streetcar was great! I liked it and certainly would prefer riding those on my commute than buses. But like everyone has said already, trams should be thought of for the purposes of shorter routes, connecting with the main haul system. Ride quality was smooth and quiet. Seats are leather, but really, I think our new SkyTrain seats are more comfortable. All in all, great ride, and I hope to see the system come to fruition.

Here's my full Flickr gallery, finally done and solved. Quick photos here:








My photography on Flickr








My photography on Flickr








My photography on Flickr








My photography on Flickr








My photography on Flickr








My photography on Flickr








My photography on Flickr








My photography on Flickr








My photography on Flickr








My photography on Flickr








My photography on Flickr








My photography on Flickr








My photography on Flickr








My photography on Flickr

And here are a few new signs. Sadly, the information signs at Granville Island were installed incorrectly, and the arrows all point in the wrong direction. I'm not used to seeing French all over Vancouver now, but I certainly don't mind it.









My photography on Flickr








My photography on Flickr

And they've installed new signs to warn pedestrians about the streetcar, in addition to removing the old signs.








My photography on Flickr








My photography on Flickr

And a bonus massive Bell advertisement.








My photography on Flickr


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## city_thing

That new tram looks fantastic. Do you have any more photos of the interior?

Very sexy.


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## lightrail

BoulderGrad said:


> For those of us Yankees coming up to the Olympics from the south (Specifically from Seattle on I-5), what is the best PNR to head to to catch the train into downtown? I figured that would be easier than trying to forde our way into DT to find parking. It would be cool to start at a stop on the brand new Canada Line, but I've never ridden Skytrain before, so really its all new to me.
> 
> edit: I should add I'm going to one of the hockey games at GM pla.... I mean... Canada Hockey Place


If you're heading in for the day, I'd recommend you park at South Surrey Park and Ride (just of Hwy 99 at King George. From there you can get the 351 Express (runs every 15 minutes) to Bridgeport Station on the Canada Line, or the 321 to King George Station on the Skytrain Line.

You could park at Bridgeport Station (Canada Line) or Scott Road Station (Expo Line), but both park and rides are likely to be busy or even full, plus if you go to Bridgeport, it means lining up to get through the Deas Island Tunnel or over the Fraser Bridge. The 351 bus has it's own bus lane and queue jumper to avoid the lineups. 

The last 351 from Bridgeport Station on the Canada Line leaves at 1:40am arriving back at South Surrey at 2:10am. The last 321 to white Rock leaves Surrey Central Station (Expo Line) at 1:30am - they may run later buses to meet the later running of the Expo Line during the Olympic Games.

If you park at Bridgeport, there will be 24 hour transit service as the N10 provides service every 30 minutes when the Canada Line is not operating. 

If you park at Scott Road Station, there will be 24 hour transit service as during the Olympics, the N19 will provide service all night at least every 30 minutes when the Canada Line is not operating.

For GM Place - get off the Expo Line at Stadium Station, and the Canada Line at Yaletown-Roundhouse.

The N10 night bus can be boarded southbound on Howe Street, and the N19 eastbound on Pender.


----------



## trainrover

deasine said:


> they've installed new signs to warn pedestrians about the streetcar, in addition to removing the old signs.


Huh? do you mean the pole or the signage, coz the world knows that warning signs are backgrounded by orange -- or that neon, highlighter yellow that`s been about for ages already?

Had the operator any! pictogram in mind instead of its unilingual one, then it'd be a vast, overall improvement on its safety mandate.


----------



## deasine

trainrover said:


> Huh? do you mean the pole or the signage, coz the world knows that warning signs are backgrounded by orange -- or that neon, highlighter yellow that`s been about for ages already?
> 
> Had the operator any! pictogram in mind instead of its unilingual one, then it'd be a vast, overall improvement on its safety mandate.


It's quite obvious that, if you read the actual post, I was talking about the sign itself. As for why it isn't orange, again, if you read the contents, this sign is for pedestrians and not for drivers. Drivers actually have a digital sign board warning them about oncoming streetcars in addition to a standard X-ING sign that isn't shown in the photo. Regardless, there are actual CoV traffic coordinators working at this intersection for most of the day.


----------



## deasine

Buzzer Blog posted a hilarious comic that represents many of us, especially me, on transit... though I generally don't hold the doors.









Comic by Angela Melick on the Buzzer Blog


----------



## deasine

Buzzer Blog posted a hilarious comic that represents many of us, especially me, on transit... though I generally don't hold the doors.









Comic by Angela Melick on the Buzzer Blog


----------



## Micrav

city_thing said:


> That new tram looks fantastic. Do you have any more photos of the interior?
> 
> Very sexy.


Check threads about Brussels. For the info, this Bombardier tram has been designed by a top Belgian design company Axel Enthoven who is also specialized in transportation design, manufactured in Bruges in the Bombardier factory there. The seats look has been chosen by the public on public consultation, style reminds Art Nouveau, a specialty of Brussels and Victor Horta in the begining of last century. Enthoven made also the Bova bubble bus among others. You can check his work on www.eadc.be 

But is seems amazing :eek2: that this tram line is only temporary for the games... Isn't it? WHy not leave it?


----------



## lightrail

Micrav said:


> Check threads about Brussels. For the info, this Bombardier tram has been designed by a top Belgian design company Axel Enthoven who is also specialized in transportation design, manufactured in Bruges in the Bombardier factory there. The seats look has been chosen by the public on public consultation, style reminds Art Nouveau, a specialty of Brussels and Victor Horta in the begining of last century. Enthoven made also the Bova bubble bus among others. You can check his work on www.eadc.be
> 
> But is seems amazing :eek2: that this tram line is only temporary for the games... Isn't it? WHy not leave it?


Because the trams belong to Bruxelles and they want them back after the games. So far, our useless transit agency has no money or interest in buying any trams to run on the line. They seem more interested in fighting with the Provincial government than actually providing a decent transit system.

The tram line itself will be used. A museum society will be running heritage trams on the line during summer months.


----------



## deasine

To be fair, TransLink isn't useless. It's just quite restricted in its powers as it is mostly controlled by the Provincial Gov't. 

Yes, the streetcar is needed and wanted, but from a regional standpoint, there are far more other priorities. Like I've been saying, more money is needed to go towards infrastructure so that we can continue expanding all the necessary services in Vancouver.


----------



## Micrav

Don't need to buy very expensive trams to run on, you can find good trams made in eastern Europe for about a million € when other trams cost arond 4 to 5 times more (like the Belgian ones running in Vancouver forthe Olympics...) Bombardier is not the cheapest. Anyway I understood it is not a priority. From Brazil to Alaska, America is still in a large "petrol state of mind"... Still money driven and not so people minded. Crisis did not teach seems so... 

At least, with heritage trams, you will be able to recycle old material... Could be a good idea...


----------



## lightrail

deasine said:


> To be fair, TransLink isn't useless. It's just quite restricted in its powers as it is mostly controlled by the Provincial Gov't.
> 
> Yes, the streetcar is needed and wanted, but from a regional standpoint, there are far more other priorities. Like I've been saying, more money is needed to go towards infrastructure so that we can continue expanding all the necessary services in Vancouver.


Good point. While I know Skytrain predated translink I think it's interesting that all three rapid transit lines were built by the Provincial government and in all cases received opposition from local politicians. So if we left it to Translink or it's predecessor BC Transit we wouldn't have any rapid transit today.

So when I say useless I mean the model is seriously broken.


----------



## disturbman

Micrav said:


> Don't need to buy very expensive trams to run on, you can find good trams made in eastern Europe for about a million € when other trams cost arond 4 to 5 times more (like the Belgian ones running in Vancouver forthe Olympics...) Bombardier is not the cheapest.


Not at all, a 32m long Alstom Citadis tram cost around 2m€ piece.


----------



## city_thing

They're dumping the streetcar when the games are over and are then running a historical tram along it only in the warmer months? That's crazy.

It should be the first stage of a vast LR/Tram network for Vancouver. Don't take two steps forward and then one step back.


----------



## deasine

city_thing said:


> They're dumping the streetcar when the games are over and are then running a historical tram along it only in the warmer months? That's crazy.
> 
> It should be the first stage of a vast LR/Tram network for Vancouver. *Don't take two steps forward and then one step back.*


Well that essentially what this project is to prevent from doing. Previously, we've been only running historic trams on selected days and limited times, with a daily ridership of approximately 1500 passengers per day. Vancouver always envisioned a streetcar, but couldn't do it because of the lack of attention from the other governments as well as funding. City of Vancouver (mainly the previous mayor Sam Sullivan) wished to use this demonstration project, in partnership with Bombardier, to bring more attention to this project and have the public be able to travel on modern streetcar vehicles in order to gain more support, hopefully pushing the other governments and regional bodies to fund a real streetcar from Granville Island to at least Waterfront Station (Downtown Hub).

Really, this is a stepping stone to a real streetcar network.


----------



## Transira

How about trolleybuses?


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## Micrav

Anyway, there is need for a good mix of fast, confortable, convenient and affordable public transportation system in every single city of a reasonable size. So, whatever happens, Vancouver has to deal with this too. Even if we still have petrol in 50 years, there are still traffic jams and cities cannot accept all cars possible. There is need to develop Park and Ride spots and see things globally. But are people still able to see the big picture nowadays?


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## zivan56

You are aware that most buses in Vancouver proper are trolley buses, right? Not many classic diesel buses are used anymore with most newer buses being low sulfur/hybrid...only the highway coaches are classic diesel buses with a few exceptions on suburban routes.

Also, it's not as simple as simply buying a trams that are already available. Most of them don't meet standards here, so they would need to be redesigned and adapted to meet them. Look at Toronto, which ordered tons of new trams and will have to pay quite a premium and wait a long time to get them. I believe these trams had a Transport Canada exemption, which is why they have tons of people supervising at intersections and on the train itself.

Let's not forget infrastructure, which would need to be built. The trams would have little dedicated ROW because there is simply no room to run them other than down a street.

So while a tram is nice, it wouldn't offer anything more than the current trolley buses do most of the time.

As for you thinking Vancouver is a classical American city, I suggest looking through other Vancouver transit threads (why did the Canada Line thread become a Vancouver transit thread in the first place????). Most of the stuff you are suggesting is already is place and used widely for decades.


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## disturbman

zivan56 said:


> So while a tram is nice, it wouldn't offer anything more than the current trolley buses do most of the time.


Depends on how it will be designed, with the same route patern as the older trolley bus the only hing it will give you is capacity.


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## dleung

Deja vu...


















Seinfeld "The Limo" episode


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## deasine

The Olympic torch runs through Aberdeen Station, inbound platform. Check the full set out here: 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/theducks/sets/72157623395553502/ 

*Don't forget to join in the discussions at the Olympic forum!*









Photography by theducks of Flickr


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## trainrover

^^ Might some consultant've failed at advising the Scotchgarding of _that_ ceiling?


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## deasine

Canada Line to run 24 hours from Feb 28-March 1 from YVR-Airport to Waterfront, with trains every 6 minutes. Richmond, however, will use normal service hours, but passengers bound for Richmond can get off at Bridgeport and transfer onto a N10 bus.



> Special Olympic Canada Line service to YVR – February 28 / March 1
> 
> Special all-night service will help move post-Olympics airport passengers from Vancouver
> 
> TransLink and Vancouver Airport Authority have arranged for the Canada Line to maintain service from downtown Vancouver to Vancouver International Airport (YVR) throughout the night of February 28th into March 1st. The special all-night service will help move the record number of passengers expected to pass through the airport in the 24 hours following the end of the 2010 Winter Olympic Games.
> 
> 
> 
> All Canada Line stations will remain open between Waterfront and YVR, however the Richmond Stations south of Bridgeport will close as usual overnight. Ten trains, with the capacity to move over 3,300 passengers per hour, will run at six minute intervals.
> 
> TransLink will work with the hospitality industry to ensure visitors are aware of the additional rapid transit service to the airport.
> 
> 
> 
> March 1 is predicted to be the busiest day in YVR’s history, with up to 39,000 travellers and 77,000 pieces of baggage expected to depart the airport. The Airport Authority has implemented a number of programs to ensure smooth travel through the terminal including increased customer service presence, offsite check-in facilities at the Athlete Villages and an auxiliary terminal on Sea Island. Air travellers are encouraged to check ww.yvr.ca for the latest flight information before departing for the airport.
> 
> 
> 
> TransLink CEO Ian Jarvis says “All rail rapid transit services are normally shut down for daily maintenance, which is why they do not run 24/7. This is a very special circumstance; with so many people planning to fly out of Vancouver immediately after the games we will leave ten of Canada Line’s trains running while the other ten are prepared for regular service on March 1st,” he says.
> 
> 
> 
> Jarvis says the entire transit system, staff and equipment alike, has performed at unprecedented levels during the Games, moving record numbers of passengers. “Maintenance staff has done outstanding work to keep the bus, rail and marine fleets in service, complementing the efforts of bus operators, SkyTrain and SeaBus attendants, Transit Police and volunteers to keep all our customers moving safely and efficiently over the Olympic period.
> 
> 
> 
> “The whole transit system has demonstrated great efficiency, flexibility and resiliency throughout the Games, and people across the region have responded in a tremendously positive way to all the TravelSmart options, demonstrating patience and hospitality along the way. Together all of these factors have helped our road and transit system contribute positively to the overall Games-time experience,” he says.


(TransLink, 2010)


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## deasine

Posted in Spectators Discussion:
Canada Line to run 24 hours from Feb 28-March 1 from YVR-Airport to Waterfront, with trains every 6 minutes. Richmond, however, will use normal service hours, but passengers bound for Richmond can get off at Bridgeport and transfer onto a N10 bus.



> Special Olympic Canada Line service to YVR – February 28 / March 1
> 
> Special all-night service will help move post-Olympics airport passengers from Vancouver
> 
> TransLink and Vancouver Airport Authority have arranged for the Canada Line to maintain service from downtown Vancouver to Vancouver International Airport (YVR) throughout the night of February 28th into March 1st. The special all-night service will help move the record number of passengers expected to pass through the airport in the 24 hours following the end of the 2010 Winter Olympic Games.
> 
> 
> 
> All Canada Line stations will remain open between Waterfront and YVR, however the Richmond Stations south of Bridgeport will close as usual overnight. Ten trains, with the capacity to move over 3,300 passengers per hour, will run at six minute intervals.
> 
> TransLink will work with the hospitality industry to ensure visitors are aware of the additional rapid transit service to the airport.
> 
> 
> 
> March 1 is predicted to be the busiest day in YVR’s history, with up to 39,000 travellers and 77,000 pieces of baggage expected to depart the airport. The Airport Authority has implemented a number of programs to ensure smooth travel through the terminal including increased customer service presence, offsite check-in facilities at the Athlete Villages and an auxiliary terminal on Sea Island. Air travellers are encouraged to check ww.yvr.ca for the latest flight information before departing for the airport.
> 
> 
> 
> TransLink CEO Ian Jarvis says “All rail rapid transit services are normally shut down for daily maintenance, which is why they do not run 24/7. This is a very special circumstance; with so many people planning to fly out of Vancouver immediately after the games we will leave ten of Canada Line’s trains running while the other ten are prepared for regular service on March 1st,” he says.
> 
> 
> 
> Jarvis says the entire transit system, staff and equipment alike, has performed at unprecedented levels during the Games, moving record numbers of passengers. “Maintenance staff has done outstanding work to keep the bus, rail and marine fleets in service, complementing the efforts of bus operators, SkyTrain and SeaBus attendants, Transit Police and volunteers to keep all our customers moving safely and efficiently over the Olympic period.
> 
> 
> 
> “The whole transit system has demonstrated great efficiency, flexibility and resiliency throughout the Games, and people across the region have responded in a tremendously positive way to all the TravelSmart options, demonstrating patience and hospitality along the way. Together all of these factors have helped our road and transit system contribute positively to the overall Games-time experience,” he says.


(TransLink, 2010)


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## ssiguy2

I finally made my first ride on the Canada Line..........my observations: 
Not only are the stations incredibly small but weren't very wide either. The stations had no down escalators. The stations were fairly decent, certainly not eye-popping but pleasant. One thing that struck me the most is the ride itself. I have never been on a Metro that is as smooth and quiet as this one, it was a very pleasant surprise.


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## Plumber73

ssiguy2 said:


> I finally made my first ride on the Canada Line..........my observations:
> Not only are the stations incredibly small but weren't very wide either. The stations had no down escalators. The stations were fairly decent, certainly not eye-popping but pleasant. One thing that struck me the most is the ride itself. I have never been on a Metro that is as smooth and quiet as this one, it was a very pleasant surprise.


The technology for laying and joining the rails has gone up a notch or two over the last century. The tolerances, when they welded the Canada Line rails together, were very tight from what I hear. You can also thank the vehicles themselves for the smooth ride, since they have some sort of air cushioning going on.


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## trainrover

By any chance, has the transit operator *finally* taken to washing its busses regularly during the _Olympiques_, because with all the precip the lower mainland gets and what with my own recollection from years back, their vehicules -- unlike Montreal, which washes its own fleets after mucky days -- were scummy for weeks at a time, making it *mighty* difficult to for me as a passenger to observe where us riders were?

If so, what's the likelihood of that region continuing its regular washes of its fleets?


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## deasine

Our buses have been quite clean for quite some time now. They did have cleaning issues before, especially after snow, but it's not a wash everyday. I think the new colour scheme hides away a lot of the dirt though.

Inside, they are bright, clean, and comfortable, especially those with the new vinyl material on the seats.


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## Eurotram

*Deasine*,Olympic Games are over (so as the test "olympic" tramline).So could you tell something about passenger's oppinions about Flexity Outlook trams and about the possibility of introducing tram/light rail (of course with such a vehicles) service in Vancouver?

EDIT: Or maybe it's not the end of operation of the tramline ?At least, Paralympic Games are not over yet


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## deasine

Eurotram said:


> *Deasine*,Olympic Games are over (so as the test "olympic" tramline).So could you tell something about passenger's oppinions about Flexity Outlook trams and about the possibility of introducing tram/light rail (of course with such a vehicles) service in Vancouver?
> 
> EDIT: Or maybe it's not the end of operation of the tramline ?At least, Paralympic Games are not over yet


The last day of service for the streetcar "trail" project is on March 21st. Unfortunately, there hasn't been an announcement to build/expand the streetcar project towards Waterfront Stn via Gastown, Chinatown, Main Street-Science World Stn, and the actual Olympic Village (not the station).

People love the Brussels trams. It's a little narrow, but most of them know, through explanation of Bombardier and City of Vancouver workers, that these streetcars are narrow because Brussel streets are narrow. In Vancouver, I'm sure a standard LRT vehicle width would be used instead. Many Vancouverites haven't experienced a surface rail train, since Vancouver doesn't have LRT or Trams, so it was a pleasant surprise for many. General consensus: everyone loves it and wants it to stay.


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## mr.x

manrush said:


> I don't mind driverless trains, per se. The expense of such systems is usually a hindrance.
> 
> I wonder if it would be at all possible to essentially turn the Canada Line into a future Vancouver MRT, perhaps turning the two-car units into four-car units.
> 
> Though the people over at a some transit websites would probably have a conniption about it.


Anything's possible...it is possible to extend the platforms to accommodate 4-car trains (2-car trains paired together, not the shorter middle C-cars). But it would just be very, very expensive....and sadly, it will be a necessary future expense.


----------



## mr.x

ssiguy2 said:


> The RAV was so ill thought that the stations cannot be extended beyond 50 meters, a very cosy fit for 3 subway {60 metre} trains. After that Vancouver is screwed and will have to begin building a whole new line. At least SkyTrain was built with 72 metre stations which carries it's ability for 6 MK1 cars but more importantly the stations were all built to be able to be extended to 105 metres which is 9 MK1 lengths but due to the make up of the MK11 that has the capacity of 10.5 MK1 cars. Running every 90 seconds with the higher pick up speeds of SkyTrain that is high subway capacity.


Again, it's a 3-car subway train. Not 3 subway trains, that would make it a 6-car train.

SkyTrain is built with 80-metre platforms, not 72.


And while the Canada Line is most certainly underbuilt, it does have the same max. capacity as the current Expo Line at 15,000 pphpd. It's substantial....current capacity restraints are solely from a lack of trains.

Ridership for the Canada Line is currently at 105,000/day (a number not expected until 2013!), and odds are it will also be much more than 142,000 by 2021. With the Millennium Line extension to UBC with a transfer hub at Cambie to the Canada Line, ridership on the Canada Line could see an increase of 50,000/day.

The Canada Line can still reach frequencies of 90-secs from Waterfront to Bridgeport, and 3-minutes from Bridgeport to YVR or Richmond.


And the Olympics proved that the Canada Line, with all its current 20-trains in use, can move great volumes. It moved 200,000/day comfortably during the Games...there were some delays when ridership exceeded 200,000 and neared 300,000 on some days.


----------



## mr.x

ssiguy2 said:


> In normal circumstances I would not advocate SkyTrain but it's pretty much a must do to aleviate a needless transfer at Comericial/Broadway. The system must be made to be as seamless as possible.
> I do not however agree with a UBC extention. It only needs to go to Alma and after that a BLine. After alma the ride is free flowing, the there is available area along 10th for higher density housing and there are far higher priorities namely Hastings. The Hastings corridor along that part of Broadway is far far busier and more congested. Commercial to Alma but after that Hastings must be top priority with no exception. UBC can wait.


Not sure why you're so obsessed with Hastings, you clearly underestimate the demand coming from UBC...a major regional destination. 

A Hastings rail transit line can wait until UBC and the south of Fraser rail infrastructure is complete. Hastings is within the Millennium Line corridor, it doesn't make much sense.


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## spongeg

something Canada line has going for it is its in Vancouver and judging by what the city has not done, other than joyce, they haven't really built up around the stations - its neighbour cities have done so though so there won't be a huge surge in passenger growth to worry about
haha


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## mr.x

spongeg said:


> something Canada line has going for it is its in Vancouver and judging by what the city has not done, other than joyce, they haven't really built up around the stations - its neighbour cities have done so though so there won't be a huge surge in passenger growth to worry about
> haha


IMO not at all...many have underestimated the demand on the Vancouver-Richmond corridor. Current ridership numbers prove that.

Although the City of Vancouver likely won't change its policies on densification around most stations, Downtown Vancouver and especially Richmond City Centre will only grow in the years to come. And Oakridge Mall is on its way into becoming a major destination with its future renovations and expansions. There's also rapidly the growing east-west bus ridership that funnels passengers into the Canada Line.

The Millennium Line extension to UBC is going to attract many, many new riders to the Canada Line:

1) Canada Line corridor residents being able to access Broadway quickly

2) Current bus passengers switching to the Millennium Line (via Canada Line) for its shorter travel times to destinations like UBC

3) A flood of Expo Line passengers transferring to the *Millennium and Evergreen Lines* at Commercial/Broadway for transfer to the Canada Line. It also makes airport rail travel much more feasible to those living in the East.


I'd expect no less than 50,000 new riders on the Canada Line when the UBC extension opens.


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## MrNogatco

Interesting perspectives...

One thing I don't get...why didn't they use Skytrain on the Canada Line? I'm not a huge fan of Skytrain but, for consistencies sake, it makes more sense to use the same technology throughout the system. Also, as someone pointed out, at least Skytrain platforms are easier to lengthen when that time comes. Canada Line, not so much.


----------



## deasine

MrNogatco said:


> Interesting perspectives...
> 
> One thing I don't get...why didn't they use Skytrain on the Canada Line? I'm not a huge fan of Skytrain but, for consistencies sake, it makes more sense to use the same technology throughout the system. Also, as someone pointed out, at least Skytrain platforms are easier to lengthen when that time comes. Canada Line, not so much.


It's not the technology method that restricts platform extension, it's the construction method. SNC/Lavalin's bid was to shave costs, and it was able to meet the capacity requirements set out by RAVCO by using short platforms with shorter, but wider trains. Also note, RAVCO was to level out the playing field. Originally, Bombardier was proposing to add train stocks with the Edmonds OMC, thus making their bid much more attractive. Of course, this restricts other companies, so RAVCO required that this is an independent system with its own OMC and vehicles, which makes sense to some extent. 

Before, I thought for consistency sakes, they should just have it SkyTrain too. But one has to realize most metros around the world don't have the same technology/rolling stock used. It is also important to note that the Canada Line and the rest of the SkyTrain network serve a complete different transit user. Transfers between the Canada Line and the Expo Line are there, but there aren't too many, and if there are, most of them are still commuting within Vancouver and choose to use the Canada Line as the other options are much slower (i.e. 99 B-Line). Take the Hong Kong MTR for instance, most of the lines has its own rolling stock, but from the interior, they all look the same. In that sense, I agree, we should've developed a consistent look and branding for the Canada Line. It should have had the same livery design as the new MK IIs (Black/Blue/Yellow/Grey) instead of the ugly blue/green/grey scheme. The interiors should've looked similar to the MK IIs as well, with lots of white light (vs florescent now), comfortable seating material, and yellow handle bars. The Canada Line train icons should look like the SkyTrain ones and there is no need of differentiating the two.

Another advantage of using conventional rail technology is that we aren't stuck with Bombardier if we ever want more rolling stock in our system. Many manufacturers, including Bombardier, create conventional rail vehicles and given the proper specifications, many more companies can build them. 

Also to note, if the Canada Line was built to higher specifications, it would've allowed longer platforms, but would've increased its cost exponentially.


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## lightrail

MrNogatco said:


> I don't understand the obsession with Bombardier's very expensive Skytrain technology and the equally costly Hitachi system used on the RAV line. Not to mention the tiny trains and limited expansion possibilities built into the system...
> 
> A more cost-effective, standard metro system running 6-8 car driver operated trains seems to make much more sense.
> 
> Human driven trains, and service personnel other than armed transit cops (glorified fare inspectors) on the trains and platforms would also make the system much friendlier and less sterile.
> 
> Good ole' Vancouver, sacrificing substance for expensive and mediocre style since 1986.


Obsession. Let's see:
1. trains can run as frequently as 45 seconds apart
2. automated trains accelerate the same and decelerate the same every single time, no exception - meaning headway's are easily maintained
3. no driver means train turn around can be as quick as it takes to load and unload - no need to wait for the driver to switch ends or take a break
4. no driver means trains can be added, or service extended as demand warrants without having to schedule drivers for them
5. no drivers means that trains can run shorter but more frequently - no labour costs involved in running more but shorter trains.
6. standard metros are not necessarily cost effective. The trains are heavier and require more power, more servicing and higher safety standards and train separation, etc. 
7. Skytrain is driven by linear induction - no moving parts, so is actually inexpensive and low maintenance - and extremely reliable
8. Drivers do not make me feel any safer - I've never seen one come out of the cab to render assistance. Agree with more staff at stations, but that can be done on the current system, the technology has nothing to do with it.

Here's a fact - in it's 24 year history, Skytrain has never had an accident while under automated control.


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## deasine

Good point about the turn around. Missed that. And to note, many of the "manual" systems are actually semi-automated. Some systems went full conversion from manual to automated, like the Paris Metro. Interestingly enough, operator RATP was able to do a full conversion of Line 1 to automation while keeping the system fully running: http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/06/29/paris-shows-how-to-automate-a-subway/


----------



## spongeg

mr.x said:


> IMO not at all...many have underestimated the demand on the Vancouver-Richmond corridor. Current ridership numbers prove that.
> 
> Although the City of Vancouver likely won't change its policies on densification around most stations, Downtown Vancouver and especially Richmond City Centre will only grow in the years to come. And Oakridge Mall is on its way into becoming a major destination with its future renovations and expansions. There's also rapidly the growing east-west bus ridership that funnels passengers into the Canada Line.
> 
> The Millennium Line extension to UBC is going to attract many, many new riders to the Canada Line:
> 
> 1) Canada Line corridor residents being able to access Broadway quickly
> 
> 2) Current bus passengers switching to the Millennium Line (via Canada Line) for its shorter travel times to destinations like UBC
> 
> 3) A flood of Expo Line passengers transferring to the *Millennium and Evergreen Lines* at Commercial/Broadway for transfer to the Canada Line. It also makes airport rail travel much more feasible to those living in the East.
> 
> 
> I'd expect no less than 50,000 new riders on the Canada Line when the UBC extension opens.


it functioned fine during the olympics it will be fine for years to come

teh last time i used it last week it was dead at the stations i went to and there was plenty of room on the trains in the afternoon - expo line was much busier


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## mr.x

*Canada Line races toward capacity* 
The SkyTrain branch nears 100,000 riders per day three years ahead of schedule after Olympics brought the crowds out

*By Kelly Sinoski, Vancouver Sun *
June 1, 2010 11:02 PM

The new Canada Line is nearing capacity three years ahead of schedule, prompting TransLink to look at "tactical options" to help ease pressure on the 19-km route.

*The line has been recording an average of 94,000 trips per day — just shy of its capacity of 100,000 riders, a number TransLink had not expected to reach until 2013. It now anticipates it could reach that number as early as next year.*

*While immediate options to ease overcrowding include running an extra train from Brighouse during peak periods, passengers won't see any more trains running regularly between Vancouver and Richmond until the summer of 2011.*

*TransLink believes passenger numbers are higher than projected due in part to the Olympic need to get drivers off the roads, as well as a push to funnel suburban bus commuters to the new line.
*
"You make your projections on what you know ... years in advance of the project startup," TransLink spokesman Ken Hardie said. "It's probably the Olympics that have been the key difference [between] what we were expecting and what we have."

Ridership on the $2-billion Canada Line has been growing steadily since it began operating last August.

*Hardie didn't have a total count of how many new riders are taking the train, but according to TransLink figures, the number of daily commuters from south Surrey and White Rock using the No. 351 bus was up 38.9 per cent in May from last June.*
*
Weekend traffic also rose by 52.5 per cent on Saturdays and 53.2 per cent on Sundays.

That increase, as well as a rise in commuters from Richmond, Delta and Vancouver, has contributed to passenger crunches along the Canada Line.*
*
The squeeze is particularly severe at Brighouse, the transit hub for all local Richmond buses, and Bridgeport, where buses shuttle long-haul commuters from Delta, south Surrey and White Rock, during rush hour.*

For Percy Bond, this means he never gets a seat when he boards the train at Brighouse for his commute into Vancouver. The only way he can do so, he said, is to get off at Bridgeport and take the airport train, which is usually empty, into downtown.

"I like [Canada Line] except for the fact it's always full," he said. "What surprises me is they can't put three cars on ... it would be nice to see in the rush hour."
*
Hardie said that now, TransLink typically runs 14 of its 20 Canada Line trains, each with two cars, at 3.5-minute intervals, with another two trains added at rush hour.

By August of 2011, the transit authority plans to regularly run 16 trains, which will represent a 12-per-cent lift in service, every 3.33 minutes.*

Hardie wouldn't say how much this would cost.

But he noted that when "we run more transit, we spend more money."

But that doesn't mean commuters won't see any improvements this year, he said, as TransLink has the option to improve service during peak periods to deal with severe overcrowding or pass-ups.

*Options include adding extra trains to the Brighouse line during "peak of peak" periods, he said, as well as having buses scheduled for Brighouse shifted to Bridgeport, where commuters can catch a second, nearly empty train, from the airport.

While the airport trains don't have the same passenger numbers, Hardie said TransLink isn't considering moving some of those trains to the Brighouse line. He noted a new park and ride facility at Templeton on the YVR line is drawing more transit users and airport traffic is expected to rise. The park and ride is for airport workers and passengers, who are travelling on the Sea Island route.*

*The YVR line carries an average 9,300 passengers per day, or 10 per cent of the total ridership, compared with 15 per cent on the Richmond line.*

Hardie noted the Canada Line has only been running for less than 10 months so it's still early days and variables such as high fuel costs or parking can have an effect on transit use.

Vancouver commuter Ken Law, who lives at 49th and Cambie, drove downtown regularly until the Olympics. He said transit has proven to be more convenient, faster and cheaper, especially with higher parking prices expected with the HST.

"I find it okay," he said. "If you can save money and don't have to drive, there's less stress."

Hardie noted he expects ridership to continue to grow, especially as municipalities continue to densify areas around the transit stations.

Richmond has been densifying its city centre since 2000 in anticipation of huge transit use of the Canada Line. "There was a pent-up demand for effective, reliable transit in the Richmond, Vancouver transit corridor," Mayor Malcolm Brodie said.

Meanwhile, Hardie noted *there is another silver lining for TransLink if the Canada Line reaches its capacity by next year.

The rapid transit line was built as a public-private partnership, with TransLink guaranteeing to subsidize ridership shortfalls of less than 100,000 per day. It must also provide operator InTransitBC with some capital, as well as debt-service costs of $38 million to $39 million over the life of the 35-year agreement.*

*Once it hits an average 100,000 riders, Canada Line will reach the break-even point in covering its own operating costs, similar to the Expo and Millennium lines.*

"With a lift in capacity next year, that could move [ridership] pretty darn close," Hardie said, but added: *"All signs still point to TransLink having to hustle to meet up with the demand."*

[email protected]
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/...ard+capacity/3100040/story.html#ixzz0pfx7GVzN







One big sigh....albeit an obvious ridership success. I can't believe they're still using only 14 trains, and next year's increase will only add 2 trains for a total of 16. It needs 18 today! Unbelievable. 

If this were BCRTC-operated SkyTrain, there wouldn't be any of this nonsense...it doesn't cost THAT much to immediately put 2 or even 4 more trains onto the system. The only thing that's obviously stopping them is the P3 contract.



_
"You make your projections on what you know ... years in advance of the project startup," TransLink spokesman Ken Hardie said. "It's probably the Olympics that have been the key difference [between] what we were expecting and what we have."_

The Olympics has increased ridership marginally, I certainly wouldn't put the spotlight on the effect of the Games entirely...we saw the numbers before the Games started and they were already quite high.

You sure did screw up on the ridership projections, Translink...or RAVCO, whatever. It was incredibly clear from the beginning that this line would see high ridership.

It's almost unheard of that a new rapid transit rail service is near/at capacity 10 months after opening. It's a [email protected]


----------



## trainrover

deasine said:


> like the Paris Metro


rubbish!


----------



## lightrail

lightrail said:


> .
> 
> Here's a fact - in it's 24 year history, Skytrain has never had an accident while under automated control.


Guess I tempted fate here. SkyTrain just had it's first derailment while under automated control. Seems something came loose from a train and derailed the following train. No injuries or fatalities, but it shut down a portion of the line for a few hours.


----------



## deasine

lightrail said:


> Guess I tempted fate here. SkyTrain just had it's first derailment while under automated control. Seems something came loose from a train and derailed the following train. No injuries or fatalities, but it shut down a portion of the line for a few hours.


It's important to note that this accident was not because of a computer glitch, but because a loose component of the rail boogie fell onto the tracks, causing the wheel of the MK I vehicle to hit and "jump" the track. I say "jump" because the train was really going at less than 10 km/h.


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## manrush

You know, I never really got why the "Rail for the Valley" blog has such a beef with the SkyTrain and similar systems.


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## Alex MacKinnon

It's because Zweisystem sees every dollar spent on the skytrain as money that could be spent South of the Fraser connecting Chilliwack to Vancouver with tram trains.


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## trainrover

deasine said:


> It's important to note that this accident was not because of a computer glitch, but because a loose component of the rail boogie fell onto the tracks, causing the wheel of the MK I vehicle to hit and "jump" the track. I say "jump" because the train was really going at less than 10 km/h.


it's clear you've nothing to say on the matter....."important"?! 2nd rubbish! Steerable trucks a-hunting on some dance floor hno:

by the rate you keep scratching my postings, your dwelling in some fairy tale has been all too clear for much time already...


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## deasine

trainrover said:


> it's clear you've nothing to say on the matter....."important"?! 2nd rubbish! Steerable trucks a-hunting on some dance floor hno:
> 
> by the rate you keep scratching my postings, your dwelling in some fairy tale has been all too clear for much time already...


I'm pointing out that it wasn't the fault of the computer, but because of aging infrastructure that needs to be refurbished. It's clear that the MK Is need to be refurbished in some way or another as they've already past their end of their life cycle. And note, TransLink is studying this already, either in the form of a large scale fleet replacement or refurbishment. 

Why am I deleting your posts? Because you've been saying everything's "rubbish" the entire time. Sure I might have some bias against you, I mean, who isn't bias? But, at the same time, I wonder why you have a tainted track record with many other moderators before me. Also based on previous posts, It's also clear that you dislike other Canadian cities, particularly Vancouver and Toronto.


----------



## greg_christine

I have never been on Vancouver Skytrain, but I have been on the Detroit Peoplemover, which uses trains that are the same as the first generation trains in Vancouver. The Bombardier Advanced Rapid Transit system brings every conceivable advantage. The use of short, fully automated trains that operate at close headways reduces construction cost by enabling smaller stations, reduces operating costs, and provides greater passenger convenience through shorter station wait times. There should be no debate about the advantages of this system.


----------



## JustinB

Alex MacKinnon said:


> It's because Zweisystem sees every dollar spent on the skytrain as money that could be spent South of the Fraser connecting Chilliwack to Vancouver with tram trains.


I would question spending 2 Billion on a tunnel to a University too. Especially if the money can be better spent elsewhere.


----------



## trainrover

Nouvellecosse said:


> You seem very eccentric. :cheers:


Very kind of you, Nouvellecosse, I am flattered, although I think altogether it be more a case of here folks' finding themselves more encouraged to ply their persona/e in place of living their personality :cheers:


----------



## metrofreak

congratulations Vancouver 

*
New Service of the year 
Canada Line*
http://www.airrailawards.com/Winners.html

:cheers:


----------



## trainrover

Magically imaginative, the special effect of _aeroplane blown aside_...


----------



## deasine

Faregate Installation News:

Vancouver's system of fare gates and Compass Smartcards will be installed by Cubic, which has designed many large systems including London and San Francisco.



> *TransLink fare gate installation gets underway*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Construction of the new SkyTrain turnstiles was kicked off by a crew of politicians at the Commercial-Broadway Station on Tuesday morning.
> 
> TransLink CEO Ian Jarvis said it will take about 18 months to install about 400 gates, including 150 accessible gates for wheelchairs and strollers, throughout the 49 stations in the system.
> 
> The total cost of the gates is estimated at $100 million. The province is paying about $40 million and the federal government is paying $30 million of the cost, with the rest of the cost coming out of TransLink's existing budget.
> 
> The gates are designed to work with TransLink's new smart-card system called the Compass card which will work throughout the entire regional transit system, including Coast Mountain buses, the SeaBus and the WestCoast Express.
> 
> The Compass smart-card system is expected to cost an additional $70 million.
> 
> TransLink estimates it loses more than $7 million a year through fare evasion, but one of the main reasons for installing the new system has been demands to make the system safer.
> 
> Currently, commuters can walk onto the platforms at stations without having to prove they have paid the fare, but transit police do conduct random checks for tickets.


(CBC 2011)

Similar story from the Vancouver Sun:



> Faregate construction at Commercial-Broadway SkyTrain station begins
> By LAURA KANE, Vancouver Sun July 20, 2011
> 
> Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Fa...ation+begins/5128221/story.html#ixzz1Sma2ok4d
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> METRO VANCOUVER - Construction officially began Tuesday to install faregates at the Commercial-Broadway SkyTrain station, the start of a $171-million project that will transform the transit experience throughout Metro Vancouver.
> 
> By 2013, there will be faregates at every station and travellers will swipe electronic fare cards to pass through them.
> 
> 
> “Today marks a milestone in our vision of a better place to live in the province,” said TransLink CEO Ian Jarvis. “The new faregates will allow our customers to navigate our system more easily and feel more secure while doing so.”
> 
> Transportation Minister Blair Lekstrom, Canadian Heritage Minister James Moore and North Vancouver District Mayor Richard Walton joined Jarvis in kicking off construction at the station Tuesday morning.
> 
> The faregates, 1.3 metres tall with paddle-style turnstiles, will be installed at every station in the system over the next year and a half. That means a total of 400 gates, of which 150 will be wheelchair-accessible.
> 
> New electronic fare cards, called “Compass cards,” will allow riders to load up monthly passes, single fares or a prepaid balance that will be detected when they pass through the gates.
> 
> The cards will be used for Vancouver’s entire transit system, including the SeaBus and West Coast Express.
> 
> TransLink expects a boost in revenues of about $12.4 million from the new system, including an additional $7.1 million it figures it now loses annually due to fare evasion. It projects an additional $2.8 million from new ridership and $2.5 million as a result of improved planning, said spokesman Drew Snider.
> 
> TransLink expects the faregates will encourage more people to use transit because they will feel safer, Snider said.
> 
> Data will also be collected about travel patterns and volumes when riders swipe their Compass cards, allowing TransLink to make the system more efficient by tweaking schedules and service hours.
> 
> “Currently, we have different ways of counting passengers and it’s very labour-intensive,” Snider said. “The new system will be much more accurate and much more reliable.”
> 
> When SkyTrain was launched in 1986 to coincide with Expo celebrations, it was created on an “honour system,” said Moore.
> 
> “I think we’re seeing a creep of abuse,” he said. With the new faregates, “we’ll save money in terms of ridership and those trying to cheat the system.”
> 
> Of the $171-million cost of the switch to faregates and Compass cards, the province provided $40 million and the federal government contributed $30 million from the Building Canada Fund.
> 
> TransLink will fund the additional $100 million through sources including transit fares, gas taxes and property taxes.
> 
> Lekstrom said faregates have been a priority of TransLink and the government for “several years.”
> 
> “Obviously the issue is that we need more services to meet the growing demand of our incredible city here. I think TransLink is doing a good job of that.”
> 
> SkyTrain’s 25th anniversary this year has spurred a number of planned upgrades to the transit system, including replacing running rails and improving accessibility.
> 
> Customers can check www.translink.ca/ontrack for possible service disruptions.
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> © Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Fa...ation+begins/5128221/story.html#ixzz1SmZugcwd


(Vancouver Sun 2011)


----------



## p604

Check this out: http://www.straight.com/article-464556/vancouver/vancouver-skytrain-mapped-out-super-mario-bros


----------



## krnboy1009

The free ride is over I guess.


----------



## trainrover

trainrover said:


> ^^ Vancouver! watch & listen to how it whips through the overhead intersection, 0'25" ​


----------



## JustinB

Ahh.... Zurich... What a great city. I want to go back.


----------



## Metro One

Here is a video of the Canada Line crossing the Fraser I made (filmed in late October 2011) There are also a couple shots of nearby road bridges at the end.

http://youtu.be/CLvK2YhZXCw


----------



## trainrover

Metro One said:


>


----------



## spongeg

evergreen line has started construction with full blown construction starting in two months - they call it pre-construction work now and the line opens in 2016


----------



## Hot Rod

wow, such a long construction schedule for not a very lengthy line. ....?

I personally think M-Line extension to UBC should have been a priority over this - especially since West Coast Express already serves that area - but I assume this was political.


----------



## ssiguy2

The UBC Millenium extension is still a priority and will be completed by 2020 as will the 4km south/east Expo extension. 
The UBC extension is going to take considerably longer to build as most of it will be tunneled along the very busy Broadway corridor.


----------



## spongeg

Hot Rod said:


> wow, such a long construction schedule for not a very lengthy line. ....?
> 
> I personally think M-Line extension to UBC should have been a priority over this - especially since West Coast Express already serves that area - but I assume this was political.


the NE was promised the evergreen line in the 80's and they had to stick with that promise

i live in this area and i think its stupid that they just didn't start the UBC extension first, the 97 b line as unfun as it is was doing its job and could handle the needs of the area for a few more years well most of the decade but whatever at least its something


----------



## Plumber73

By 2016, when the Evergreen Line is complete, the focus will no doubt turn towards the Millenium Line extension. Nothing has been officially decided yet as far as I know, but the pressure will be on to use the same type of technology (Skytrain?). I just can't see how there would be a rapid transit line to Douglas College, and only buses to UBC. Makes no sense. And like everyone says..., it'll have to be tunneled. They better save up now!


----------



## Plumber73

In addition, the ridership for the Millenium Line extension would probably be at least double what the Evergreen Line could get.


----------



## Hot Rod

seems like they should have built the most expensive and densest line first. 

Just imagine what the M-Line extension will hit: Midtown/Broadway CBD, UBC University City, Westside Vancouver City, Main Street/Kingsway, City Hall-Cambie hub. Those are major draws and would 'complete' Vancouver's metro network in the densest and most populated sector of the entire province that is not served by rapid transit and the #2 Central Business District, not to mention the nation's #2 biggest university iirc. SkyTrain metro ridership with M-Line extension would most likely rise well above 550,000 riders per day for the system, immediately.

Why doe E-Line take so long? I can understand M-Line taking long due to TBM'ing almost the entire way, but I don't get why E-Line has opening of 2016; I was thinking 2014 seems more reasonable.


----------



## Metro One

The problem is the M-Line extension is only in the study phase. The Evergreen Line had been studied to death since the 80's, so essentially everything lined up in its favour to be built first. Even if we were not building the Evergreen Line we would have to wait a couple more years to see any work commence on an M-Line extension. 

Also the Evergreen Line had the political will and strong local support.

Sadly, the M-Line extension does not have this and there are indeed vast stretches of its proposed alignment filled with wealthy people who are planning to oppose it.

Also, the fiscal of the Canada Line construction along Cambie is still fresh in the areas memory, so it is best we let a few more years go by before they hear about a subway under Broadway being built (Even though this will be bored and not cut and cover, but the average citizen is not very transit savvy so they would still complain, worry and fight it. 

So for all those reasons it is great to see Metro-Vancouver's 4th skytrain line commence. 

And by the time the Evergreen Line is done, the M-Line should have all its consultation / design phases complete. 

Go Evergreen Line Go!


----------



## spongeg

yeah thats the idea, than the surrey extension will happen

I think surrey will get its own thing happenning though before that ever happens, they have plans to run their own street car line in to serve surrey


----------



## Hot Rod

that makes sense. I just wish things were different because it sure would be nice to have the region's principle and densest/most populated city be well served with subways.

As for Surrey, I am not against them getting rail transit but I am against them getting it ahead of M-Line extension. I think SoF needs to show their weight by using transit starting in the bus form, first. This would 'establish' transit mindset and probably help densify corridors that could be developed into rapid or rail transit in the future. For them to just sit and complain about the emphasis being in Vancouver is ludicris because Vancouver does warrant high capacity rail whereas Surrey or any other city in SoF does not. Bus, however - I can agree with them getting a new bus network with Surrey Central serving as the main SoF hub.

I'd also like to see Commuter Rail expansion. I think SoF should have that as a priority, hub bus network, and build streetcar in Central Surrey (to create density); and they worry about rapid transit later. As to rapid transit, I think there should be a minimal extension to the Expo line to the south or SE, but I'd really like to see a light rail line go from West Richmond to Central to Surrey Central (then to Coquitlam?) and maybe another LRT serving the Fraser Highway like a Portland MAX arrangement.

Outside of SoF, I'd like to see some sort of transit in the Northshore - along with a more robust Commuter Rail and I'd like to see the city of Vancouver implement an extensive streetcar network (not just downtown). I also think a streetcar should be implemented in UBC University City.

My vision for Vancouver's Transit Network is 
1) SkyTrain (4+ complete lines) serving as the backbone with metro rapid transit capacity and frequent service [Expo Line serving near 24 hours on Th, Fri, Sat], 
2) West Coast Express providing Chicago Metra style high capacity, lower but all day service to the existing corridor, strengthening the Northshore corridor (make it robust with Ferry to West Van to Lonsdale to ??), a new SoF SE corridor to Abbotsford, and a new corridor to the south (and Tsawassen ferry), 
3) SoF Light Rail corridors 
4) Cities implementing streetcar and bus hub networks and Express/Commuter routes to downtown Vancouver where SkyTrain or WCE isn't available 
5) SkyRide to SFU

Ah, to dream


----------



## Metro One

^^That sums up my transit dream as well for Vancouver.


----------



## spongeg




----------



## trainrover

^^ Queer, there's barely any automobile traffic there :uh:


----------



## Plumber73

trainrover said:


> ^^ Queer, there's barely any automobile traffic there :uh:


Probably because there are not a lot of roads to be seen? And the skytrain is moving through the industrial areas of the False Creek Flats... Not really relevant in any case.


----------



## trainrover

1st Ave, the Georgia viaduct, etc, are arterial ... I remember those roads being *busy* but the clip shows nary more than some ghost town ...


----------



## BoulderGrad

trainrover said:


> 1st Ave, the Georgia viaduct, etc, are arterial ... I remember those roads being *busy* but the clip shows nary more than some ghost town ...


Ermm...? I see cars... Not really a traffic jam I guess, but cars none the less...

Maybe traffic was a little lighter than normal because:
-He caught the right signal timing
-perhaps earlier in the morning
-maybe on a weekend?
-all of the above

but the linger question is... so?


----------



## Plumber73

trainrover said:


> 1st Ave, the Georgia viaduct, etc, are arterial ... I remember those roads being *busy* but the clip shows nary more than some ghost town ...


That part of road is actually Terminal Ave, not 1st Ave. What you're looking at is the parking lane, so no shit you won't see a lot of traffic. Lol! And you can barely see the top side of Georgia, so it's difficult to guage traffic density from that angle. Give it up.


----------



## trainrover

Why bother, since Vancouver itself has already beaten me to it :hahano:


----------



## zivan56

Vancouver roads are usually gridlocked between 8 am and 8 pm. There are major choke points everywhere. The only part that isn't is the western part of Vancouver proper, which has more road capacity than the eastern part that feeds it.
I had to drive someone from the airport to Port Moody, took about 2 hours to get from the airport to there. Average speed was 20 km/h hno:
Vancouver is in desperate need of an East-West highway to properly channel traffic not traveling locally.


----------



## nname

I don't think anyone had posted these yet... I just love these videos..


----------



## trainrover

zivan56 said:


> in desperate need


Neediness is merely a question of opinion :yes:


----------



## trainrover

trainrover said:


> 25 Feb 2012
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :_Montreal transit merger rejected
> 
> _​23 Feb 2012
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :_Quebec eyes B.C. model for AMT that critics call ‘incompetent’
> 
> 
> 
> Some Vancouver-area mayors, including Coquitlam’s Richard Stewart (third from left), are critical of the region’s transit agency, TransLink, which has been suggested as a model for Montreal._
> 
> ^^ Anybody else find the safety devised into that photographed Vancouver car park mighty suspicious? :sly:​


..


----------



## trece verde

trainrover:

Nothing suspicious about it; it's just not new. This parkade (that's what we call them over here) is at least 40-45 years old; nobody's ever driven through it, nor have any vehicles fallen off. Since we live in an earthquake belt here, it also has to be capable of not falling over when things jiggle.

For those keeping score, this photo is looking SW from Waterfront Station across Cordova St. towards Granville St.


----------



## spongeg

random video


----------



## deasine

Fare gates were just revealed not long ago at Marine Drive Station. It's by Cubic, the same company that does the gates for London and San Francisco (hence the similarity).









From TransLink


----------



## Nexis

I'm not a fan of those fare gates , I like the ones NYC uses or Boston...


----------



## deasine

More pictures installed at different stations:








King Edward Station By Stephen Rees










King Edward Station By Stephen Rees










Vancouver City Centre By Sweet One


----------



## deasine

From Skyscraperpage Local Forum, here are some photos of the station reconstruction to accommodate for fare gates, for station revitalization, and expansion.



allan_kuan said:


> (stand by, some images are messed up... stupid ImageShack) >.>
> 
> All images taken by me on Friday, mostly focusing on stations whose entrances got the biggest upgrades. Some notable omissions are New Westminster and Scott Road, as those were not "en route" by the time I called it a night.


----------



## krnboy1009

So the days of free rides are over?


----------



## deasine

krnboy1009 said:


> So the days of free rides are over?


Soon... 

On a more serious note, they've been constantly running loop announcements of "new fare enforcement rules" and "thanking passengers for having a validated fare."


----------



## AverageJoe

*SkyTrain won't take bus transfers with new Compass Card system*

By Michael Mui, 24 Hours Vancouver
Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:57:08 PDT AM

Lower Mainland bus drivers are “shaking their heads” at why TransLink decided bus transfer tickets for cash fares would no longer be accepted for other transit services when the Compass Card rolls out this fall.

TransLink spokesman Derek Zabel said that at $25 million, it was too expensive to upgrade all bus fare boxes so they would dish out Compass-compatible tickets.

If a passenger carries a bus-transfer pass to the SkyTrain, they will be told to get a Compass single-trip pass from a machine. There will be no trade-ins, nor will there be a discount for cash-only bus fares, Zabel said.

“If the customer comes on the bus with cash, and they get that ticket, that would no longer work on the rail side,” Zabel said Tuesday, adding bus tickets in the new system will only be viable for bus-to-bus transfers.

He said there will be a transitional period in which both options will be accepted while TransLink teaches the public about its new system. During this time, retailers such as 7-11 will carry all available types of fare, including monthly and pre-loadable Compass Cards.

“It’s estimated only 6,000 customers (pay cash and transfer) a day, which represents a small percentage of our daily rides,” Zabel said.

But Gavin Davies, vice-president of the union representing TransLink bus drivers, is worried his members will take the brunt of customer complaints when frustrated passengers find out they’d need to pay twice if they wish to use bus with cash then transfer to SkyTrain.

“They’re going to take their frustration out on the (bus) operator,” Davies said.

“You either go all the way or no way, they’re not two separate things. We have one system in place and it should be compatible.”

Zabel said TransLink expects most customers to use the Compass Card instead, as monthly and pre-loadable options offer a discount of up to 14% as a further incentive to buy. He said the transport authority would make sure its staff fully understand the system and can answer any questions.

“I don’t know if we’ve figured out a date when we’ll stop selling regular fare media we currently have,” Zabel said.

“We’re not going to close the date until we’re confident people understand how to use the system.”

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2013/08/13/skytrain-wont-take-bus-transfers-with-new-compass-card-system


----------



## Canadian Lover

I have taken a few photos of our transit system here in Vancouver. Photos from MeroRailRoad


----------



## Falubaz

^^ Try to resize the pics, please.


----------



## swimmer_spe

So, will they ever find a way to connect the 2 main Ferry Terminals - Horseshoe Bay and Tsawwassen to the WCE or the Skytrain system?


----------



## Huhu

swimmer_spe said:


> So, will they ever find a way to connect the 2 main Ferry Terminals - Horseshoe Bay and Tsawwassen to the WCE or the Skytrain system?


I don't think any plan for that is even in the conceptual stages. Any line would have to go through rather sparsely populated areas so Skytrain would be an expensive option. Commuter rail would be a better choice IMO.


----------



## Falubaz

I'd like to share some of my pictures taken recently in Vancouver metro system,
which is nicely called skytrain.


----------



## Falubaz

Bus


----------



## Falubaz




----------



## Falubaz




----------



## deasine

Great pictures; I also noticed they are pretty recent as some of the bikelanes in the picture have been repainted.



swimmer_spe said:


> So, will they ever find a way to connect the 2 main Ferry Terminals - Horseshoe Bay and Tsawwassen to the WCE or the Skytrain system?


As huhu mentioned it's probably not going to happen. Besides, there is little/next to no traffic that will need to connect between the two ferry terminals.


----------



## Falubaz

^^ Of course they are recent, august 13th


----------



## Falubaz




----------



## Falubaz




----------



## Falubaz

More buses


----------



## Falubaz




----------



## Falubaz

Good sign. 
Still too many ppl behave like jerks on public transportation.


----------



## Falubaz




----------



## swimmer_spe

Huhu said:


> I don't think any plan for that is even in the conceptual stages. Any line would have to go through rather sparsely populated areas so Skytrain would be an expensive option. Commuter rail would be a better choice IMO.


If the West Coast Express used the line from near the Horseshoe Bay Terminal To Lionsquay Seabus Terminal, and use most of the existing rail that could go from the Tsawwassen Ferry Terminal to Waterfront Station.

It would just require the trains and the legal permission.


----------



## bengyap

Super Mario's Skytrain Map!


----------



## ssiguy2

That's cool!


----------



## Nexis

*Vancouver 2015 - Buses & Trackless*







*Vancouver 2015 - Skytrain*


----------



## dimlys1994




----------



## ode of bund

Vancouver Marine Drive Station Canada Line and trolley-buses.

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/BBt9rJ7plG8/

Trolley going through two consecutive switches.
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/FyQIOHAJuA0/


----------



## dimlys1994

TBM Alice broke through on the only tunnel for Evergreen Line:


Hello Alice! by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr


Tunnel boring for the Evergreen Line is complete by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr


----------



## Yellow Fever

Evergreen line, Lougheed section..

IMG_8177 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

IMG_8179 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

IMG_8181 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

IMG_8183 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr


----------



## Yellow Fever

more..

IMG_8185 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

IMG_8187 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

IMG_8189 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr


For more pics, please visit this thread...

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=129005830#post129005830


----------



## Woonsocket54

Skytrain today is celebrating its 30th birthday.

http://www.news1130.com/2015/12/11/skytrain-marks-30-years-of-service-what-does-the-future-hold/


----------



## Yellow Fever

The last station of the Evergreen line..

IMG_9517 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

IMG_9516 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

IMG_9513 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

IMG_9510 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr


----------



## Yellow Fever

IMG_8254 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

IMG_9511 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

IMG_9514 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

IMG_9518 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr


for more photos...http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=824540&page=11


----------



## Yellow Fever

Evergreen Line, Lincoln Station section, Coquitlam

IMG_8253 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

IMG_8254 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

IMG_8252 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

IMG_8251 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

IMG_8238 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

IMG_8237 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr


for more photos..http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=824540&page=12


----------



## Nexis

Has the BC Govt ever considered extending the West Coast Express to Chilliwack.


----------



## Manitopiaaa

Vancouver to Chilliwack is 63 miles. To put things in perspective, here in Washington DC there was a big pushback against expanding the Washington metro into Manassas and Prince William County because that was 'too much' for a rapid transit system to handle. And Washington to Manassas is "only" 29 miles. 63 miles is definitely commuter rail territory. I'm not sure how fast SkyTrain is but rapid transit systems are around 25 miles per hour, no? I'm not sure I want to way 2.5 hours waiting for the subway to land in Chilliwack. 

Best case scenario is Via Rail builds a station in Chilliwack or Abbotsford on their Vancouver-Kamloops line.

I do think Sky Train should be expanding deep into Surrey and Langley though. Isn't Surrey supposed to surpass Vancouver in population in 25 years or so? 4 stops seems a bit...lacking.


----------



## Nexis

The West Coast Express is a Diesel Commuter rail not the Skytrain...

63 miles isn't that long for Commuter rail or Regional Rail , some lines go over 100 miles. I'm sure it would get decent ridership if they had hourly departures....


----------



## Sunfuns

At that distance it need to be a fairly fast service. Where I live trains (intercity not suburban) cover such a distance in about 1 h 20 min, but in a less mountainous environment 1 h should be feasible.


----------



## ssiguy2

Chilliwack is on the other side of the Fraser River where the current terminus is. There is a rail bridge but the it is fairly old and so it would be an expensive endeavor with limited ridership.


----------



## ode of bund

My video of Vancouver trolley-buses filmed in November 2015.


----------



## Master13

I consider that trolleybus systems are in some cases better than tram systems for their flexibility and autonomy, not to mention its infrastructure is cheaper and easily implemented.


----------



## Nexis

*3rd quarter public transit daily ridership for the Greater Vancouver metro *

Burnaby / Greater Vancouver Transp Auth Automatic Guideway - 385,600 (2015) : 1.35%
Burnaby / Greater Vancouver Transp Auth Commuter Rail - 9,800 (2015) : -2.70%
Burnaby / Greater Vancouver Transp Auth Direct Response - 4,600 (2015) : -4.74%
Burnaby / Greater Vancouver Transp Auth Ferry Boats - 23,600 (2015) : 1.09%
Burnaby / Greater Vancouver Transp Auth Buses - 549,900 (2015) : -3.77%
Burnaby / Greater Vancouver Transp Auth Trolley Bus - 198,300 (2015) : -0.07%


----------



## dimlys1994

From CKWX Radio:



> http://www.news1130.com/2016/02/10/surrey-getting-outside-help-to-get-lrt-plans-on-track/
> 
> *Surrey getting outside help to get LRT plans on track*
> Feb 10, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SURREY – Those hoping to get an LRT moving in Surrey are getting some outside help.
> 
> Mayor Linda Hepner says they’ve hired consultants from Earnscliffe Strategy Group to help them get in contact with the right people and communicate with grassroots light rail advocacy groups
> 
> ...


----------



## Woonsocket54

The Province
http://www.theprovince.com/news/translink+long+delayed+compass+card+system+fully/11755586/story.html



> *TransLink’s long-delayed Compass card system to be fully operational next month*
> 
> BY KELLY SINOSKI, POSTMEDIA NEWS MARCH 1, 2016
> 
> TransLink’s Compass card and fare gate system will be fully operational by next month, three years after the system was initially promised to be up and running.
> 
> The transportation authority said Tuesday it intends to shut the gates at SkyTrain and SeaBus stations on April 4, with the system in full gear by April 8.
> 
> At that time, all transit users will require a Compass card or a Compass ticket to use SkyTrain or SeaBus. Although passengers can still use FareSaver tickets or cash on buses, they will still need a Compass card or ticket to access the rest of the system.
> 
> ...


----------



## Spam King

From VIA Architecture Twitter:

*Metrotown Station hoop truss.*

May 6, 2016:









https://twitter.com/viaarchitecture

May 11, 2016:









https://twitter.com/viaarchitecture


May 31, 2016:









https://twitter.com/viaarchitecture









https://twitter.com/viaarchitecture


----------



## lightrail

JMeier said:


> Is there really enough demand to justify two lines from Lougheed to VCC? Or will the new line operate less frequently?[/QUOT
> 
> Actually what will happen is that the Millennium Line from VCC-Clark will be rerouted to run on the new line to Lafarge Park. Trains from waterfront that currently run as "Millennium Line" will now run as Expo Line and will terminate at Production Way - University". This will allow same platform transfer for passengers continuing on the Millennium Line.
> 
> For turnback - the automated train will travel further west to a cross-over, then cross-over and reverse. Without a siding there, I'm interested to see how they handle timing-dwell - I'm guessing it will dwell at Lougheed eastbound for timing purposes, so it can then slot in back on the mainline at Columbia between the more frequent King George to Waterfront services.
> 
> Expo Line will have two branches after Columbia. One to Production Way and the other to King George.
> 
> Millennium Lines trains will then run every 3 minutes in the peak between VCC-Clark and Lafarge Park. Likely every 4 to 5 minutes in off peak and probably every 8 to 10 minutes late at night to last train. Those are my guesses.


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## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...ish-columbia-rail-investment.html?channel=535
> 
> *Canada backs British Columbia rail investment*
> Friday, June 17, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _THE prime minister of Canada, Mr Justin Trudeau, and the premier of British Columbia (BC), Ms Christy Clark, announced in Vancouver on June 16 the $C 900m ($US 697m) of additional funding will be made available for transport improvements in the province_
> 
> The funding, which will be back-dated to April 1 to enable projects to proceed as soon as possible, comes from the $C 10bn first phase of the Canadian government's $C 120bn Investing in Canada infrastructure initiative. The funding for BC is split between the federal government which will provide $C 460m and the BC government which will contribute $C308m, while BC's transport authority Translink will provide $C 125m
> 
> ...


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## Tågälskaren

Somewhat OT but still not.

*
Study recommends separated bike lanes along Surrey's coming light rail system*

SURREY (NEWS 1130) – There is another push for separated bike lanes, but this one has nothing to do with cars. New research recommends keeping cyclists away from streetcars[...]


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## Tågälskaren

*Langleys, Surrey unite for rail study
*

The mayors of Langley City, Township, and Surrey are trying to determine if light rail or SkyTrain is the way of the future[...]


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## Spam King

Tågälskaren said:


> *Langleys, Surrey unite for rail study
> *
> 
> The mayors of Langley City, Township, and Surrey are trying to determine if light rail or SkyTrain is the way of the future[...]


LRT would be a huge waste of money, but it's obvious their minds are set on that.


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## 00Zy99

Why exactly do you say it would be a waste of money?


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## Spam King

00Zy99 said:


> Why exactly do you say it would be a waste of money?


Because the time savings and capacity increases that LRT offers over a regular bus route can be done just as well and far, far cheaper with BRT.

If you really want a rapid transit system to be the backbone of your public transportation system then you need to go fully grade separated.


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## 00Zy99

The time savings and capacity increases from LRT are greater than those of BRT at comparable cost levels.

Ottawa is an excellent case in point.


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## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...ches-skytrain-mark-iii-fleet.html?channel=525
> 
> *Vancouver launches SkyTrain Mark III fleet*
> Friday, August 19, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _A new generation of rolling stock entered passenger service on Vancouver’s SkyTrain driverless light metro network on the morning of August 18, when Mr Kevin Desmond, CEO of transport authority TransLink and British Columbia Rapid Transit Company (BCRTC) president and general manager Mrs Vivienne King welcomed passengers on board the first Mark III train at Waterfront station_
> 
> Translink placed a $C 90.7m ($US 706m) order with Bombardier in December 2012 for seven four-car Innovia 300 trains to expand fleet capacity in readiness for the opening of the 11km Evergreen Line from Lougheed Town Centre to Port Moody and Coquitlam later this year
> 
> ...


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## Spam King

The 1st piece of roof loop truss has been lifted into position at Metrotown station.
I guess the contractor had determined "bolted" support columns are strong enough for the loop truss and didn't have to wait till all the foundation to be completed.
So the late night station closure plan is just a backup plan?

Some photos I took today:

From inside a skytrain









1st loop truss portion was lifted into position. One more portion to complete.









Look really nice









Part of the track now has a roof cover and the new escalator is "long"









Centre stationhouse. 2nd level is being built. This will be where the new footbridge will connect.


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## Spam King

https://twitter.com/viaarchitecture/status/769246065631432704


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## Spam King

Update on the Evergreen Line



SkytrainCar026 said:


> I managed to take a picture of Inlet Station (the west entrance) and Burquitlam station; the plazas at both stations appear to be finished.


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## Spam King

And some more updates on Metrotown Station's renovation



vanman said:


> My pics from today.


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## Spam King

Update of a few different stations:



MIPS said:


> Progress at Joyce:
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> I spy plumbing.
> 
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> 
> I also see the new signs are already living up to their penny pinching quality.
> 
> 
> 
> Progress at Commercial/Broadway:


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## Tågälskaren

*Light rail to Surrey by 2018: tips from Toronto's chief planner*

Toronto's chief city planner Jennifer Keesmaat has a few suggestions for how Surrey can get a light rail system up and running by 2018[...]









Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/toronto-light-rail-transit-tips-1.3761896


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## dimlys1994




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## Yellow Fever

Metrotown Station 

20161022_074454 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

20161022_074607 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

20161022_074712 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr


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## Yellow Fever

20161022_074733 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

20161022_074823 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

20161022_074849 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr


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## dimlys1994

From CBC:



> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/skytrain-line-changes-1.3817090
> 
> *SkyTrain network changes start today*
> Oct 22, 2016 5:30 AM PT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _TransLink changing Millennium and Expo Lines as Evergreen Extension gets set to open_
> 
> Changes on the SkyTrain network take effect today and they could impact how you get around Metro Vancouver.
> 
> Starting today, the Millennium Line will no longer travel to Waterfront Station in downtown Vancouver.
> 
> Instead, it will run east-west from Lougheed Town Centre in Burnaby to VCC-Clark in Vancouver
> 
> ...


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## Yellow Fever

Evergreen Line Lougheed section

IMG_1121 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

IMG_1122 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

IMG_1123 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr


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## Yellow Fever

IMG_1138 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

IMG_1140 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

IMG_1151 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr


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## Woonsocket54

Millennium Line Evergreen Extension opens 2016.12.02










https://twitter.com/TransLink/status/795690149531283456


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## dimlys1994

Congratulations Vancouver with today's opening of Evergreen extension of SkyTrain!!!:banana::banana::cheers::cheers:

Updated map on urbanrail.net:
http://www.urbanrail.net/am/vanc/vancouver.htm


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## lightrail

Congratulations Metro Vancouver on opening of the Millennium Line extension.

As of noon today, Vancouver has the longest rapid transit system in Canada (it now has more track kilometres than the Toronto subway and RT (including the Spadina extension under construction) and Montreal Metro system), and Vancouver is now home to the longest automated rapid transit system in the world (Dubai is now in second place).

Of course, when Toronto opens the LRT network, it will regain the title for longest metro system in Canada.


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## swimmer_spe

lightrail said:


> Congratulations Metro Vancouver on opening of the Millennium Line extension.
> 
> As of noon today, Vancouver has the longest rapid transit system in Canada (it now has more track kilometres than the Toronto subway and RT (including the Spadina extension under construction) and Montreal Metro system), and Vancouver is now home to the longest automated rapid transit system in the world (Dubai is now in second place).
> 
> Of course, when Toronto opens the LRT network, it will regain the title for longest metro system in Canada.


Crosstown and the oher LRT are being built similar to Harbourfront, Spadina and St Clair. That would mean that Toronto is still the champ.


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## saiho

lightrail said:


> Of course, when Toronto opens the LRT network, it will regain the title for longest metro system in Canada.


Since when is LRT considered a Subway?


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## swimmer_spe

saiho said:


> Since when is LRT considered a Subway?


Since when is the Skytrain considered a subway?


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## saiho

swimmer_spe said:


> Since when is the Skytrain considered a subway?


It is considered a rapid transit system or light metro AKA Subway, Metro, etc. which the Crosstown LRT is not.


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## dimlys1994




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## dixiadetie

It seems that the train on Millennium Line just 2-car train ?


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## ainvan




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## ssiguy2

SkyTrain is in every way a full Metro/subway system. It is an electric, 100% grade separated system with EXTREMELY high frequencies. It uses a less often used technology but that changes nothing. 

Toronto's LRT lines are not Metro/subway eventhough there are large underground portions. In order for a system to be considered a Metro/subway the system must be 100% grade separated. electric, not share any rail TRACKS with freight {but it can use the same corridor}, and must be relatively frequent and part of the standard local transit system{s}. In other words Toronto's new LRT are not Metros due to having large road sharing areas and large HSR lines are also not considered Metro as they are not built for or operated for local use in conjunction with local transit services. 

Vancouver does indeed now have Canada's largest Metro/subway system but that will not last long as Montreal is starting construction on a large Lite-Metro system and much of Toronto's 200km RER system being built will also meet the definition of Metro.


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## 00Zy99

ssiguy2 said:


> SkyTrain is in every way a full Metro/subway system. It is an electric, 100% grade separated system with EXTREMELY high frequencies. It uses a less often used technology but that changes nothing.
> 
> Toronto's LRT lines are not Metro/subway eventhough there are large underground portions. In order for a system to be considered a Metro/subway the system must be 100% grade separated. electric, not share any rail TRACKS with freight {but it can use the same corridor}, and must be relatively frequent and part of the standard local transit system{s}. In other words Toronto's new LRT are not Metros due to having large road sharing areas and large HSR lines are also not considered Metro as they are not built for or operated for local use in conjunction with local transit services.
> 
> Vancouver does indeed now have Canada's largest Metro/subway system but that will not last long as Montreal is starting construction on a large Lite-Metro system and much of Toronto's 200km RER system being built will also meet the definition of Metro.


London, Chicago, New York, Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka, and Paris might all beg to differ with your definition. All of them have or have had sections with grade crossings, infrequent service, and freight operation. Chicago's CTA even maintained its own fleet of freight locomotives until its last customers closed down and it lost the business.

Toronto's system will not be entirely grade-separated. And last I checked, Montreal was still an unofficial proposal by a private entity to convert some commuter lines-which has opposition from those on the other lines that would lose service, including a very new one.


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## krnboy1009

swimmer_spe said:


> Since when is the Skytrain considered a subway?


Some of its sections run underground so subway is right.


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## ssiguy2

A subway/Metro does not to be underground just grade separated whether that be at-grade, tunnelled, trenched, elevated or a combination. The vast majority of the world's newer Metro systems have little underground section due to the enormous cost and being very disruptive and time consuming to build.


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## dimlys1994

From Metro Report:



> http://www.metro-report.com/news/ne...-vancouver-transport-investment-approved.html
> 
> *C$2bn Vancouver transport investment approved*
> 24 Nov 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CANADA: Vancouver regional transport authority TransLink approved the C$2bn Phase One of the 10-Year Vision for Metro Vancouver Transit & Transportation on November 23. Developed in 2014, this master plan envisages infrastructure and service improvements across the region’s various transport networks.
> 
> Phase One covers the period to 2019. Funding includes a C$370m federal contribution and C$246m from the British Columbia government, with the balance to be met from TransLink sources, including increased fares, and tax revenue
> 
> ...


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## 00Zy99

ssiguy2 said:


> A subway/Metro does not to be underground just grade separated whether that be at-grade, tunnelled, trenched, elevated or a combination. The vast majority of the world's newer Metro systems have little underground section due to the enormous cost and being very disruptive and time consuming to build.


Except that, as I've noted, Tokyo and Chicago both have stretches of their systems with grade crossings.


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## Nouvellecosse

00Zy99 said:


> Except that, as I've noted, Tokyo and Chicago both have stretches of their systems with grade crossings.


I know of a couple of grade-crossings on the L, but is this really something you can find on the Tokyo Metro or Toei subway? I know it's common on their high frequency commuter rail, but that seems extreme for a metro system.

But regardless, there's a big difference between something having the rare exception as opposed to the exception being a prevailing characteristic.


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## 00Zy99

Nouvellecosse said:


> I know of a couple of grade-crossings on the L, but is this really something you can find on the Tokyo Metro or Toei subway? I know it's common on their high frequency commuter rail, but that seems extreme for a metro system.
> 
> But regardless, there's a big difference between something having the rare exception as opposed to the exception being a prevailing characteristic.


There are a couple here and there. There's one on the Ginza line, if I remember correctly. And the private railways are essentially extensions of the subway, with the same trains and level of service.


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## Yellow Fever

Metrotown Station updates..

20161211_120222 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

20161211_120224 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

20161211_120227 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

20161211_120237 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr


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## Nouvellecosse

00Zy99 said:


> There are a couple here and there. There's one on the Ginza line, if I remember correctly. And the private railways are essentially extensions of the subway, with the same trains and level of service.


That's surprising about the Ginza line considering it's almost entirely underground. But of course there are some on the private railways, but they aren't part of the city's metro system regardless of the similarities. But every generality or rule has the odd exception so it's not surprising that a person can find a few considering there are a good 160 metro systems around the world..


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## officedweller

Since no one posted any videos - here are some posted at SSP:

A couple of videos during testing before revenue service started:

Outbound from Lougheed Town Centre Station 
(note that "wrong-railing" will be the service pattern between Lougheed and Burquitlam stations):






Inbound from Lafarge Lake Douglas Station:






In the snow:






and an official provincial government video:


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## saiho

Nouvellecosse said:


> That's surprising about the Ginza line considering it's almost entirely underground. But of course there are some on the private railways, but they aren't part of the city's metro system regardless of the similarities. But every generality or rule has the odd exception so it's not surprising that a person can find a few considering there are a good 160 metro systems around the world..


The one on the Ginza Line is on a non revenue spur track to a yard in Ueno. I think apart from that the "Tokyo subway proper" (Metro and Toei) does not have any at grade crossings.


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## officedweller

I don't think this video about the new MKIII trains (used only on the Expo Line) was posted:


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## Yellow Fever

Metrotown Statiom

20170104_160846 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

20170104_160856 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

20170104_161048 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

20170104_161210 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

20170104_161224 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr


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## DCUrbanist

officedweller said:


> (note that "wrong-railing" will be the service pattern between Lougheed and Burquitlam stations)


Apologize if it's been recently explained here, but does anyone have an explanation as to why this is? Is it to simplify transfers at Lougheed to the Expo Line, or for some other reason?


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## Arnorian

DCUrbanist said:


> Apologize if it's been recently explained here, but does anyone have an explanation as to why this is? Is it to simplify transfers at Lougheed to the Expo Line, or for some other reason?


The interchange at LTC is not deleveled like it is at Columbia i Bridgeport stations, the Millennium line takes these routs:










Shortening the Expo line spur back to LTC would solve the need for wrong-railing. If they need to increase the frequency on the Millennium line they'll have to do it.


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## officedweller

DCUrbanist said:


> Apologize if it's been recently explained here, but does anyone have an explanation as to why this is? Is it to simplify transfers at Lougheed to the Expo Line, or for some other reason?


The short answer is that wrong railing gets boths sets of Vancouver-bound trains (from Burquitlam and from Braid) to the same middle platform so passengers know to go to one platform for Vancouver trains. 

Earlier plans from the late 1990s planned for a basket weave (and the preplanning for the line elevated the approaches, but the basketweave was deleted as a cost-saving measure.

This was from one of the government reports (before the Expo Line branch terminus was shifted to Production Way) and shows the switch configurations:










There are also other options for train movements if the Expo Line were to terminate at Lougheed 
(i.e. trains from Braid could terminate at the middle platform and Coquitlam trains use the north and south platforms).


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## DCUrbanist

Thank you! Your responses have been very helpful.


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## Arnorian

It's puzzling that they haven't implemented everything needed for potential separation of the Millennium and Expo lines, without sharing tracks. If I'm not mistaken additional tracks in red bellow would need to be added for that.


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## lightrail

Arnorian said:


> It's puzzling that they haven't implemented everything needed for potential separation of the Millennium and Expo lines, without sharing tracks. If I'm not mistaken additional tracks in red bellow would need to be added for that.


There's no point. First, the Expo Line continues to Production Way Station, sharing track with the Millennium Line. The current routing of trains means that all westbound trains to Production Way (Expo and Millennium) all stop at the same Platform (Platform 2). 

Second, the trains are automated with the ability to run 45 seconds apart, so interlining for short sections will have no effect on operations.

Finally, Expo trains reverse in-traffic at a crossover about 1km west of Production Way Station. This can only be done with automated trains.

So even if both lines run every 3 minutes (which they currently don't - expo is every 5 minutes in the peak), that is still 90 seconds between trains - lots of time for switches to change given 45 seconds is the closest headway possible.


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## 00Zy99

What would the basket weave have looked like?


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## Tågälskaren

*Build light-rail transit, not parkades*

_Re: “Don’t mess with parking success,” editorial, Jan. 10.
There seems to be pressure to build a new parkade in downtown Victoria because the current ones are full much of the time[...]_


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## lightrail

00Zy99 said:


> What would the basket weave have looked like?


Like this:
http://www.modelshop.bc.ca/porty2/file/4000/4021/4021-3.jpg

Source: skyscraper City


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## 00Zy99

Arnorian said:


> The interchange at LTC is not deleveled like it is at Columbia i Bridgeport stations, the Millennium line takes these routs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shortening the Expo line spur back to LTC would solve the need for wrong-railing. If they need to increase the frequency on the Millennium line they'll have to do it.


Where were these track maps clipped from?



lightrail said:


> Like this:
> http://www.modelshop.bc.ca/porty2/file/4000/4021/4021-3.jpg
> 
> Source: skyscraper City


Thanks a ton. I think I get it a bit better.


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## Arnorian

00Zy99 said:


> Where were these track maps clipped from?


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Vancouver_SkyTrain_track_diagram_v3.svg


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## Woonsocket54

"*TransLink reports record ridership in 201*6"


http://www.translink.ca/en/About-Us...ansLink-reports-record-ridership-in-2016.aspx


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## Yellow Fever

Metrotown updates

20170309_180709 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

20170309_180907 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

20170309_180701 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr

20170309_072650 by Yellow Fever @ SkyscraperCity, on Flickr


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## Yellow Fever

Metrotown Station updates..

20170419_170258 by Hung Lam, on Flickr

20170419_170333 by Hung Lam, on Flickr

20170419_170418 by Hung Lam, on Flickr


----------



## Yellow Fever

20170419_170701 by Hung Lam, on Flickr

20170419_170705 by Hung Lam, on Flickr

20170419_170752 by Hung Lam, on Flickr


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## ssiguy2

Do these station improvements include lengthening of the platforms? The Expo Line was suppose to have it's capacity doubled by 2020 which obviously means extending the stations to 100+ meters. Is this actually taking place or are these improvements more cosmetic?


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## Yellow Fever

No skytrains stations improvement projects are for the look only or it won't be called improvement at all. Metrotown Station improvement project has been on for 2 years already and is only 2/3 done and you would see its a dead serious project. After it finished, the station will be twice as long and the new elevated walkway will be much wider than the old one along with more elevators on both sides.


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## Yellow Fever

20170425_070236 by Hung Lam, on Flickr

20170425_070236 by Hung Lam, on Flickr

20170425_070208 by Hung Lam, on Flickr

20170425_070156 by Hung Lam, on Flickr

For more photos...http://vancouver.skyrisecities.com/forum/threads/metrotown-station-upgrades.26823/


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## hkskyline

Canada Line


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## hkskyline

*TransLink touts ‘terrific’ totals in 2016 transit ridership numbers*
Vancouver Sun _Excerpt_
July 25, 2017

Transit service in Metro Vancouver had record-high ridership in 2016, a trend that is expected to continue this year, according to TransLink’s annual service-performance review and the latest ridership figures.

Overall ridership growth in 2016 was the largest since 2010, with annual system-wide boardings increasing by 4.5 per cent to a record 384.8 million. Ridership increased on all TransLink services except SeaBus and West Coast Express, which declined 2.8 per cent and three per cent, respectively.

This growth was likely due to a strong economy, increase in transit service hours and the official launch of the Compass card and full closure of fare gates.

Geoff Cross, vice-president of planning and policy, called the results “terrific” for TransLink.

“For one thing, it’s very unusual to have this level of growth two years in a row. It shows that the investments that we’ve been making this year were much needed and it validates all of the work that we’ve been doing with the Mayors’ Vision,” he said.

Bus boardings increased 4.6 per cent across the region, with South of Fraser seeing the largest ridership increase (10 per cent or 3.7 million) of any sub region. The largest single ridership increase on any route was on the 96 B-Line with 570,000 more boardings last year. The 319 Scott Road Station/Newton Exchange saw an additional 400,000 boardings.

“That’s a really good sign for us about the strong economy and land-use patterns in Surrey and it being able to shape demand there,” said Cross. “It’s obviously a good precursor to rapid transit.”

Bus ridership overall was generally up throughout the day, but saw highest growth in the evenings between 6 and 9 p.m. (six per cent) and on Saturdays (seven per cent).

The 99 B-Line bus between UBC and Commercial-Broadway station was the busiest bus route in Metro Vancouver and the most overcrowded. The bus has more than 17 million annual boardings and is overcrowded 33 per cent of the time.

Canada Line boardings grew by 5.5 per cent, while Expo and Millennium lines grew by 4.1 per cent. All three train lines saw steady growth, peaking in September and levelling off in the last quarter.

Growth along the Canada Line is partly attributed to increased economic activity along the line, including new development near stations, more airport passengers and record high tourism in 2016.

The Evergreen extension to the Millennium Line, opened in December, helped boost numbers for the Expo and Millennium lines. It currently sees about 30,000 boardings each weekday.

According to TransLink data, Waterfront is the busiest station in the network, with more than 36,000 average weekday entries, followed by Commercial-Broadway with more than 24,000 and Burrard with 21,000.

More : http://www.theprovince.com/news/loc...anslink+ridership+numbers/13902980/story.html


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## isaidso

Are there any plans to build a Skytrain line to UBC?


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## Innsertnamehere

long term, yes. The problem is that most of it has to be underground, which is very expensive given the distance. The first phase of it, the Broadway subway, is supposed to start soon. It will extend the Millenium line roughyl 5km from its current terminus at VCC-Clark to Arbutus Street and Broadway. After that there is still over 7km to get to UBC, 4.5km of which needs to be tunneled.


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## Yellow Fever

Metrotown Station upgrade..

20170824_104915 by Hung Lam, on Flickr

20170824_104810 by Hung Lam, on Flickr

20170824_104648 by Hung Lam, on Flickr

20170824_104610 by Hung Lam, on Flickr


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## Yellow Fever

^^

20170824_104551 by Hung Lam, on Flickr

20170824_104356 by Hung Lam, on Flickr

20170824_104330 by Hung Lam, on Flickr

20170824_102847 by Hung Lam, on Flickr

20170824_102628 by Hung Lam, on Flickr




More pics here....

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1962892&page=2

http://vancouver.skyrisecities.com/forum/threads/metrotown-station-upgrades.26823/page-2


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## Yellow Fever

Metrotown Station renovation continues...

20171004_124541 by Hung Lam, on Flickr

20171004_124608 by Hung Lam, on Flickr

20171004_124630 by Hung Lam, on Flickr

20171004_124657 by Hung Lam, on Flickr

http://vancouver.skyrisecities.com/forum/threads/metrotown-station-upgrades.26823/page-2

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=517541&page=6


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## hkskyline

2017 - Vancouver - SkyTrain Track Maintenance by Ted McGrath, on Flickr


----------



## hkskyline

*TransLink's double-decker test buses hit the streets next week*
Vancouver Sun _Excerpt_
November 16, 2017 

Two double-decker buses will make their debut on Metro Vancouver streets next week as part of a three-month pilot project.

“These buses are wrapped and ready to go,” TransLink CEO Kevin Desmond said at a launch event Thursday.

TransLink has received two buses, supplied free of charge, from British bus manufacturer Alexander Dennis. The buses arrived last week and have been outfitted with equipment such as fare boxes and Compass Card readers. Drivers are in the process of being trained.

The buses will be tested on a number of highway routes, including: 301 Newton Exchange/Brighouse Station; 311 Scottsdale Exchange to Bridgeport station; 351/354 White Rock/South Surrey to Bridgeport; 555 Carvolth Exchange to Lougheed station; and 601/620 South Delta/Tsawwassen to Bridgeport.

In preparation for the double-deckers’ arrival, TransLink ran a test bus fitted with a frame to mimic the profile of a double-decker bus along the routes to identify and deal with any obstructions, like branches or power lines.

“Yes, these buses actually do fit through the Massey Tunnel,” said Dan Savitsky, vice-president of maintenance for Coast Mountain Bus Company. “I’m sure there will be several people ducking if they’re sitting on the upper deck the first time they go through, but the buses were specifically selected because they do fit through the tunnel.”

Desmond said double-decker buses are best suited to highway travel because they’re comfortable and can carry more passengers. They can accommodate more than 80 people with room for four people with mobility devices and have up to 83-per-cent more seating than highway coaches.

They are also better for routes with fewer stops, so it’s unlikely they’ll appear on urban routes like the 99 B-Line.

Desmond said overall ridership is booming — through October boardings are up 6.4 per cent and journeys are up six per cent over last year — and buses are crowded. Double-decker buses are one solution.


----------



## Woonsocket54

"*TransLink to explore later SkyTrain service on weekend nights*"

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-...lore-later-skytrain-service-on-weekend-nights


----------



## hkskyline

H16044 by Juan_M._Sanchez, on Flickr


----------



## Fabio1976

Woonsocket54 said:


> "*TransLink to explore later SkyTrain service on weekend nights*"
> 
> http://vancouversun.com/news/local-...lore-later-skytrain-service-on-weekend-nights


Why not 24/7?


----------



## hkskyline

January 17, 2018 10:29 pm
*Fleet of 32 double-decker buses to hit the streets of Metro Vancouver by 2019*
Global News _Excerpt_

TransLink has been testing two double-decker buses on longer routes since November, and is now looking to purchase 32 of them by 2019.

The buses will cost around $1 million per vehicle, which TransLink admits is more expensive than a typical diesel bus, however says the cost is more comparable to a Vancouver trolley.

“This is adding twice the capacity of our typical highway coach and it adds about 83 per cent more seating,” said TransLink’s Chris Bryan. “Not only are you getting on the bus, you’re actually going to usually find a seat as well.”

Bryan says TransLink plans to use the double-decker buses for any long haul routes into Vancouver that last more than 40 minutes, such as South Surrey, White Rock, Tsawwassen ferry terminal, and Langley.

The Township of Langley hopes to have the double-decker buses running through their routes as its population is growing by approximately 3,000 people per year.

More : https://globalnews.ca/news/3971243/translink-double-decker-buses-vancouver/


----------



## hkskyline

Rows and Rows of Skytrain Open Doors by Joe A. Kunzler, on Flickr


----------



## hkskyline

R1009_301 by Ricky Ruan, on Flickr

V9503_15 by Ricky Ruan, on Flickr

B9736_99 by Ricky Ruan, on Flickr


----------



## ainvan

*$7.1-billion transit plan finalized for Vancouver area*



> A historic compromise between regional mayors and the province has sealed the deal on the largest transit investment in British Columbia history, with a $7.1-billion package that includes two rapid-transit lines in the Vancouver region.
> 
> In contrast to the history of transit funding battles in B.C. and the struggles in Toronto over a single subway line, the federal, provincial and regional governments for the Lower Mainland agreed on their share of the contributions: $2-billion from Ottawa, around $2.5-billion from the province, and the remainder from the regional transportation agency, TransLink.
> 
> A major obstacle had been the cities’ share – which had previously been pegged at $70-million. The province has agreed to cover $30-million of that, leaving $40-million that local governments must cover.
> 
> “They [the provincial government] helped to close that gap with us which was a step beyond what we could have expected,” Mr. Corrigan said.
> 
> https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/british-columbia/article-71-billion-transit-plan-finalized-for-vancouver-area/












Finally, the Millenium line extension to Arbutus and the new Surrey-Guilford-Newton lrt line are now fully funded.


----------



## Yellow Fever

*New stunning landmark entrance coming to Canada Line's Oakridge-41st Avenue Station*

A developer-spearheaded and funded initiative will provide the Canada Line’s Oakridge-41st Avenue Station with a significant aesthetic and functional overhaul.

As part of the first phase of the Oakridge Centre redevelopment, Westbank and mall owner QuadReal Property Group will be rebuilding the station entrance at the southwest corner of the intersection of Cambie Street and West 41st Avenue.

The latest design for this corner of the project involves creating a new public plaza, demolishing the existing station entrance, and constructing a new entrance just metres away, closer to the mall and aligned with the grand staircase leading up to the nine-acre rooftop public park.





























*Current entrance for Oakridge-41st Avenue Station
*










*Old late-2017 design for the new entrance of Oakridge-41st Avenue Station*











*New late-2018 design for the new entrance of Oakridge-41st Avenue Station*










http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canada-line-oakridge-41st-avenue-station-landmark-canopy-entrance


----------



## CB31

ainvan said:


> *TransLink's Mayors' Council suspends Surrey LRT in favour of SkyTrain*


It seems it is happening :cheers1:


----------



## ainvan

*Commercial-Broadway Station gets new look with additional fifth platform*



> The Expo Line platform area of Commercial-Broadway Station now feels far more open, brighter, and airier with an additional fifth platform, but passengers will not benefit from the huge station capacity increase until early-2019 when the expansion is scheduled to open.
> 
> Wood fencing that concealed the construction activity for the new platform has been dismantled, fully revealing the look of the entire platform addition. Construction crews are now in the process of completing finishing touches.
> 
> When the platform opens for operations, doors will open on both sides of the stopped trains traveling on the Expo Line inbound direction towards downtown.
> 
> Dailyhive


----------



## ainvan

*First new SkyTrain Mark III train enters testing routine in Vancouver
*



> The first train of a new forthcoming batch of seven four-car Mark III trains (28 cars) are now being tested on the SkyTrain Expo Line.
> 
> According to TransLink’s Buzzer Blog, the first train that arrived is now being tested and commissioned on the Expo Line during non-peak hours.
> 
> All of these new generation trains require at least eight hours of testing during operating hours as part of the second stage of system testing. The first completed stage involved running 80 kms on the Expo Line and Millennium Line during the non-operating overnight hours, while the third and final coming stage will involve running the train in regular service while transporting passengers.
> 
> The first new train arrived in Vancouver in September, and it will be another year before all seven trains are fully commissioned. Each four-car train is delivered to Burnaby on four separate flatbed trucks, and then assembled by TransLink into a fully-articulated train.
> 
> Six more trains (24 cars) will arrive in early-2019, and a second batch of seven trains (28 cars) will arrive by the end of the same year. Both batches of new trains for the Expo Line and Millennium Line will cost $210 million, while a separate order of 12 two-car trains for the Canada Line from South Korea’s Hyundai Rotem will cost $88 million.
> 
> The new cars will increase capacity on the train systems significantly, with a 10% increase on the Expo Line, 23% increase for the Millennium Line, and 30% increase for the Canada Line.
> 
> Dailyhive


----------



## ainvan

*TransLink aiming to open new 16-km SkyTrain in Surrey by 2025*



> A series of work plan recommendations in a new report to be considered by TransLink’s Mayors’ Council this week highlights that the public transit authority is aiming for a 2025 opening of the 16-km-long Fraser Highway extension of SkyTrain’s Expo Line from King George Station to Langley Centre.
> 
> This possible completion date — the same year the Broadway Extension is slated to open — is only one year later than the scheduled 2024 opening of the now-cancelled SNG LRT and about four years earlier than the previous completion timeline for rail rapid transit on the Fraser Highway.
> 
> TransLink anticipates it will be able to move fairly quickly on planning work for the project given its immense knowledge and expertise on building and operating SkyTrain. It will particularly leverage the region’s recent experience with the Evergreen Extension and the ongoing Broadway Extension.
> 
> Dailyhive


----------



## metr0p0litain

ainvan said:


> *First new SkyTrain Mark III train enters testing routine in Vancouver
> *


Are there any changes in comparison to the existing fleet?


----------



## ainvan

metr0p0litain said:


> Are there any changes in comparison to the existing fleet?


Bigger capacity, panoramic windows on both sides of the train, and redesigned windows on the ends of the cars.










*Mark I*



















*Mark II*


Vancouver Skytrain Expo Line by Ana Iammatteo, on Flickr



















*Mark III*











zmetro - CAN - BC - Vancouver (Skytrain - Expo) 2016 (421) 2017-09-19 entering Chinatown Stn - INL by Ian Lynas, on Flickr


----------



## ainvan

*TransLink to bring free Wi-Fi to entire transit system, beginning in 2020*



> TransLink users will be able to sign onto free Wi-Fi while riding the bus, SkyTrain or SeaBus starting in 2020.
> 
> The public transit provider announced plans to partner with Shaw Communications on the service, making it the first transit authority in Canada to do so, according to TransLink CEO Kevin Desmond.
> 
> "We have half-a-million people ride our system every day, and when we ask them what they'd like to see on transit, Wi-Fi is one of the most frequent requests," said Desmond in a news release.
> 
> Free Wi-Fi has already been available at SeaBus terminals and aboard the boat.
> 
> Shaw and TransLink plan to run trials throughout 2019 before launching the system-wide service. The roll-out is scheduled to be complete by 2025.
> 
> Eventually, the free Wi-Fi service will include HandyDART, West Coast Express and community shuttle buses.
> 
> CBC



The MV Burrard Beaver Pulls In by Joe A. Kunzler, on Flickr


----------



## Yellow Fever

Wow, thats good news!


----------



## thomyorke26

*Mark II*


Vancouver Skytrain Expo Line by Ana Iammatteo, on Flickr



Never saw the skytrain before, actually do not know Vancouver yet but pretty soon i will be there, thks for the photos.


----------



## urbanflight




----------



## ainvan

*The SkyTrain is turning into a huge New Year’s Eve dance party again*



> While many of us will be happily cocooned in a sweatsuit at home, tons of festive folks will be packing themselves into the Skytrain on December 31 for an ultimate end-of-year dance party.
> 
> The third annual NYE Skytrain and Seabus Dance Party will take place from 7:30 pm to 9:30 pm this year, aka the perfect time to live it up to during the commute to an epic NYE party.
> 
> Last year the event reached capacity pretty quickly, and with 1,100 “attendees” on the Facebook page, we can safely assume this year’s shindig will be no different.
> 
> *The 3rd Annual NYE Skytrain Party*
> 
> When: Monday, December 31
> Where: Waterfront Canada Line Station – 401-409 Granville Street, Vancouver
> Time: 7:30 to 9:30 pm
> Cost: Free
> 
> DailyHive


----------



## Yellow Fever

*SkyTrain best option for rapid transit to UBC: TransLink staff
*

A report shows light rail has been eliminated as a consideration for the extension of a rail line from Arbutus to the University of B.C.

A SkyTrain line is being recommended instead of light rail to extend rapid transit from Arbutus to the University of B.C.

The endorsement is in a staff report that will be considered by TransLink’s Mayors Council at their meeting Thursday, and Vancouver council next week.

“Once the technology has been approved, it will allow us to go to the federal and provincial governments and start securing funding for this,” Vancouver Mayor Kennedy Stewart said at a media availability Monday. “There seems to be a lot of enthusiasm among the other mayors for this project, and I’m very excited that this is moving forward.”

Stewart has been a strong advocate of extending rapid transit to UBC. Procurement has begun for the Millennium Line extension from VCC-Clark Station to Arbutus through a bored tunnel under Broadway. It’s estimated that the project will cost $2.83 billion and be completed in 2025.

The second phase of the 10-year transportation plan for the region set aside $3 million to develop concept designs and undertake pre-business-case work for the line to UBC. The last evaluation of options for the line was done in 2012, so last year TransLink undertook a study to consider technology, operating assumptions, demand forecasts and costs.

Four options had been considered: optimized B-Line bus service, light rail from Arbutus to UBC, light rail from Main Street-Science World to UBC and SkyTrain from Arbutus to UBC.

The updated study found that by 2030 the B-Line and parallel corridors would be overcrowded. By 2045, both light-rail routes would be near or over-capacity, and parallel corridors would be crowded. SkyTrain would also be nearing capacity, however, it could be doubled with higher frequency and longer trains.

Stewart said his preference has always been SkyTrain.

“If it’s anything else but SkyTrain, that will be a transition point that will slow down the entire trip, so it really is important that we have a continuous line right out to UBC,” he said.

A preliminary cost estimate, in 2018 dollars, for a fully tunnelled SkyTrain extension would be $3.3 billion-$3.8 billion. However, the report notes inflation would push the cost to $4.1 billion-$4.8 billion if procurement begins in 2025 and the project is completed in 2030. A final decision hasn’t been made about whether the line would be in a tunnel or elevated....

https://vancouversun.com/news/local...tion-for-rapid-transit-to-ubc-translink-staff


----------



## Yellow Fever

*By the numbers: Upgrades at TransLink's Commercial-Broadway station*








We’re now arriving at the newly upgraded Commercial-Broadway SkyTrain station.

The long-awaited upgrades to TransLink’s busiest station in Vancouver will finally open to the public on Saturday, Feb 2.

“People who use Commercial-Broadway to get on or off SkyTrain or switch between the Expo and Millennium lines know this is one of the most congested spots in our entire transit system,” said TransLink CEO Kevin Desmond.

“These upgrades will help alleviate that pressure and improve their experience. The new pedestrian overpass and the new train platform will make it much easier for our customers to transfer between Millennium and Expo line trains, and the 99 B-Line.”

Here’s a by-the-numbers look at the transit hub.

The newest platform addition at Commercial-Broadway comes more than 33 years after the station’s initial opening in December 1985, when the Expo Line platform was first unveiled to the public. In August 2002, the Millennium Line platform on the north side of Broadway was added.

The new platform (5) will allow passengers to board westbound Expo Line trains on both sides of the train car. Those disembarking westbound Expo Line trains will be able to connect from platform 5 directly to the Millennium Line station house.











200,000
It’s estimated that 200,000 transit users pass through Commercial-Broadway SkyTrain station every day. That’s no surprise considering the hub connects the Expo and Millennium lines, the 99 B-Line, major routes into downtown and east toward Boundary. Moving forward, that figure is expected to grow and the hope is that the current upgrades will help to service the projected increase in ridership.

31,000
The upgrades also include a new overhead walkway crossing Broadway that connects the south station house with the north station house. The walkway will allow passengers to connect directly from the Expo Line platform to the Millennium Line.

According to TransLink, a total of 31,000 people transfer between the Expo and Millennium lines on an average weekday. Still another 20,000 transit users transfer between the B-Line bus route and SkyTrain.

https://vancouversun.com/news/local...des-at-translinks-commercial-broadway-station


----------



## ssiguy2

These are great improvements and it`s cool to see trains bein able to board on both sides of the train. I think that`s a first in Canada. Have these stations also be lengthend to accommodate 100 meter trains?


----------



## Woonsocket54

ssiguy2 said:


> These are great improvements and it`s cool to see trains bein able to board on both sides of the train. I think that`s a first in Canada.


No; this "Spanish solution" system is already in place at Kennedy station on the Scarborough RT (Toronto).


----------



## Yellow Fever

*Vancouver City Council approves official support for UBC SkyTrain extension*


Vancouver City Council has approved a staff recommendation to advance rail rapid transit planning between Arbutus Street and the University of British Columbia’s Point Grey campus as a seamless SkyTrain extension.

But the vote was not unanimous, with city councillors Colleen Hardwick (NPA) and Jean Swanson (COPE) voting against, making it a 9-2 vote.

The ball on extending SkyTrain beyond the Millennium Line’s future western terminus at Arbutus Street is now in the court of TransLink’s Mayors’ Council, which is expected to make the final decision on proceeding any further in a meeting scheduled for February 15, now that regional leaders know the City of Vancouver’s official position.

Today’s vote also signals city staff to work with various partners, including UBC, to design the extension further, including public consultation to determine station locations, the exact route, and the portions that will be elevated and tunnelled.

City Council took the advice of an independent technical report commissioned by senior planners from both the City and TransLink that strongly identified that SkyTrain, not street-level LRT, is the only technology that provides the long-term needs of the Broadway Corridor and overall east-west transportation needs in the region.

“Today is a decision to keep the work going forward with the SkyTrain. It is the only one that meets the needs of Broadway,” said Jerry Dobrovolny, the chief engineer and general manager of engineering services for the municipal government.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/ubc-skytrain-extension-vancouver-city-council-january-2019


----------



## ssiguy2

Have these stations been extended to 100 meters and weren`t all station suppose to be extended to 100 meters by 2020?


----------



## Yellow Fever

The new expanded Commercial and Broadway Station..



spongeg said:


> it opened today.
> 
> looks busy on the new escalator
> 
> *New SkyTrain platform now open at Commercial-Broadway Station*
> _BY LAUREN BOOTHBY
> 
> Posted Feb 2, 2019 5:01 pm_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The expanded entrance leaving the Millenium Line platform has two sets of escalators and two walkways heading to the Expo Line platform. (Lauren Boothby, NEWS 1130)_
> 
> ...
> 
> https://www.citynews1130.com/2019/0...form-now-open-at-commercial-broadway-station/
> 
> a little video
> https://twitter.com/laurby/status/1091811605757620224/video/1


----------



## Woonsocket54

*More photos of new platform at Commercial-Broadway*









https://twitter.com/electricyvr/status/1092460582379253761









https://twitter.com/electricyvr/status/1092460582379253761









https://twitter.com/laurby/status/1091811282787815424









https://twitter.com/calvin616/status/1091808319033856000









https://twitter.com/calvin616/status/1091808319033856000









https://twitter.com/olibuj/status/1091756001982799874









https://twitter.com/nickeagland/status/1091752356616626176









https://twitter.com/nickeagland/status/1091752356616626176


----------



## ainvan

*10-minute SeaBus service from Waterfront station to North Vancouver to begin Sept. 3*



> With the newly acquired Burrard Chinook now conducting sea trials, Metro Vancouver’s transit authority announced its SeaBus service connecting Waterfront station with North Vancouver’s Lonsdale Quay will sail across Burrard Inlet every 10 minutes during rush hour starting September 3.
> 
> The SeaBus currently makes the 15-minute crossing every 15 minutes between 6 a.m. and 9:15 p.m., and then every 30 minutes until 1:30 a.m.
> 
> The increased service will mean riders can catch the SeaBus every 10 minutes between 7 a.m. and 9:30 a.m. and 3 p.m. to 6:30 p.m. It will continue to sail every 30 minutes in the late evening, except for Friday when another vessel will provide extra crossings depending on demand.
> 
> The increased service is part of the Mayors’ Vision for transit developments, a 10-year plan now in its fifth year.
> 
> Vancouver Star



Coast Mountian Bus Company SeaBus by Transit_Central, on Flickr









_Seabus crossing Burrard Inlet_


----------



## ainvan

*TransLink says double-decker buses will be on Metro Vancouver roads this fall*



> Transit users in Metro Vancouver will soon be riding high on a new fleet of double-decker buses, TransLink announced Friday.
> 
> The transit authority posted pictures of the buses decked out in the traditional blue, yellow and grey colour scheme on social media while promising they’re now on the way to the region.
> 
> Once inspected and tested, the extra-large buses are expected to enter service this fall.
> 
> Each bus includes panoramic views from the top deck and a lit staircase with handrails. On the lower level, screens will indicate vacant seats on the upper deck.
> 
> Global News


----------



## ainvan

*Higher pay ranges approved for TransLink executives*



> The pay ranges for executives at Metro Vancouver’s transit authority have increased, with the biggest bump going to the chief executive officer.
> 
> The new salary range for the CEO has been set at $406,634 to $517,443, approximately 25 per cent higher than the previous range of $325,092 to $406,364. In 2018, CEO Kevin Desmond’s salary was $405,242, plus benefits and expenses.
> 
> Three other high-level positions — the chief financial officer and heads of Coast Mountain Bus Company and B.C. Rapid Transit Company — will see their ranges increase by two to 11 per cent on the low end and eight to 18 per cent on the high end. The range for all three positions is $279,818 to $372,513. These positions are held by Christine Dacre, Michael McDaniel and Haydn Acheson.
> 
> The range for the executive vice-president of financial services, a role that was previously part of the chief financial officer’s position, is $258,482 to $323,103. Gigi Chen-Kuo holds the position.
> 
> The range for the Transit Police chief is $174,959 to $218,699. Dave Jones became chief on April 1.
> 
> Twelve other positions — 11 vice presidents and the chief information officer — are also included in the plan and had their ranges adjusted upward.
> 
> Vancouver Sun


----------



## ainvan

*TransLink launches bidding process for 205 new SkyTrain cars*



> The procurement process for the acquisition of hundreds of new SkyTrain cars for the Expo Line and Millennium Line has officially launched.
> 
> TransLink issued the request for proposals (RFP) for the new acquisitions at the end of July, calling for at least 205 new cars to create 41 five-car trains.
> 
> These will be SkyTrain’s longest trains yet, reaching a length that will reach both ends of the 80-metre length platforms on the Expo and Millennium lines, and it is also the largest single-train order to date for the public transit authority.
> 
> In this minimum order, a small number of trains can be four-car trains expandable to five-car trains.
> 
> While the existing trains on the Expo and Millennium lines are all designed and manufactured by Bombardier, the forthcoming order is being opened up to international manufacturers with experience in building linear induction motor propulsion technology.
> 
> Earlier this year during the request for information process, TransLink said it received significant interest from possible bidders around the world as a result of the economies of scale of the significant order. And with the scale, bidders are encouraged to develop innovative designs and solutions to fit to TransLink’s specifications.
> 
> The minimum order of 205 cars is part of a $1.47-billion upgrade of SkyTrain infrastructure, entailing a new additional train maintenance and storage yard, upgrades to the existing Edmonds train operations and maintenance centre, and new train control and operating systems, including a new operations and control centre for the entire SkyTrain network.
> 
> The provincial government is contributing $579 million, the federal government is allocating $493 million, and TransLink is covering the remainder of $398 million. This investment is a component of Phase Two of the Mayors’ Council’s 10-year transit expansion and improvement plan.
> 
> DailyHive


----------



## ainvan

*B.C. Hydro seeks special rate to offer TransLink, B.C. Transit EV conversion*



> B.C. Hydro is proposing to give TransLink, B.C. Transit and other heavy-duty fleet owners a break on their electricity bills, if they are converting to electric vehicles.
> 
> Last week, Hydro submitted an application to the B.C. Utilities Commission to create special charging rates for EV fleet owners, with the deepest discounts, of up to 60 per cent, going to those that can recharge batteries at depot facilities overnight.
> 
> The call for specific “charging rates” comes in response to a plea for such rates from TransLink and B.C. Transit as both organizations set goals for the adoption of battery-electric buses.
> 
> “The new services and rates described in this (application) will contribute to B.C. Transit’s and TransLink’s respective long term strategies to reduce greenhouse gases related to the operation of their fleet,” B.C. Hydro wrote in the application.
> 
> And doing so will be necessary for the agencies to do their part in meeting B.C.’s overall provincial objective of cutting greenhouse-gas emissions by 80 per cent from 2007 levels by 2050.
> 
> At the end of July, B.C. Transit announced its objective to convert to an all-electric fleet for transit systems outside of Metro Vancouver by 2040.
> 
> In Metro Vancouver, TransLink aims to replace 1,500 buses in its fleet with electric buses over the same time frame.
> 
> Vancouver Sun


----------



## ainvan

*TransLink says better bus departure time estimates are coming*



> TransLink says users will be able to plan their trips better thanks to more accurate bus departure estimates.
> 
> “We’re proud to have developed the new algorithm in-house, with collaboration from technology companies Microsoft and T4G,” says TransLink CEO Kevin Desmond. “This method is going to result in better information for customers, who can make more informed decisions throughout their journey. During the pilot phase the difference between predicted and actual bus departure times improved by 74 per cent.”
> 
> Combining live bus location data with machine learning algorithm, the methodology improves existing estimates by considering major factors that affect bus departures, according to TransLink. These include weather conditions and journey estimates at different times of day and night. To ensure accurate predictions for the entire transportation network, the algorithm involves over 16,000 machine learning models.
> 
> The new algorithm has been incorporated into TransLink’s Next Bus website and SMS tool (text the bus stop number and bus route number to 33333 for next departure estimates). Third-party applications that are already using our bus departure estimates, such as the Transit App and Google Maps, will also use the new estimation method.
> 
> Vancouver is awesome


----------



## ainvan

*TransLink adds American Express as Compass payment method*



> Regular transit users and visitors to Metro Vancouver can now use American Express (AMEX) to get around on TransLink’s public transit system.
> 
> For single-use trips, AMEX contactless cards and mobile wallet can now be used to tap onto SkyTrain and SeaBus fare gates and bus fare card readers.
> 
> As well, AMEX can now be used to purchase fares online and at Compass vending machines, including monthly passes.
> 
> TransLink’s Compass Card system is managed and operated by San Diego-based Cubic Transportation Systems, which is also behind the fare-collection infrastructure of public transit systems in cities like London (Oyster Card), Chicago (ChicagoCard), New York City (OMNY, replacing MetroCard), and Sydney (Opal Card).
> 
> Complementing the Compass Card and single-use tickets, the Compass system first began accepting Visa and Mastercard contactless cards and mobile wallet products in May 2018.
> 
> Daily Hive


----------



## ainvan

*A look inside TransLink's new double-decker buses*



> One of TransLink’s first new purpose-ordered double-decker buses was showcased at the public transit authority’s Transport 2050 exhibit at this year’s PNE Fair.
> 
> Apart from some slight variations with the features and materials used for the interior furnishings — including taller seats with headrests for added long-distance comfort — these double-height buses are essentially identical to the models that were tested in 2017.
> 
> This ‘Enviro 500’ model of bus is manufactured by UK-based Alexander Dennis, with features that include plug-in USB charging outlets in the seats, a TV screen at the bottom of the stairwell allowing passengers to see vacant seats before going up the wide and well-lit staircase with handrails, and full lower-level accessibility with a low-floor and boarding ramp.
> 
> Daily Hive


----------



## ainvan

*TransLink's battery-electric buses hit the road in Metro Vancouver*



> Transit users who take the bus along Route 100 between Vancouver and New Westminster are about to get a quieter, smoother and cleaner ride.
> 
> On Wednesday, TransLink put its first battery-electric buses on the road, kicking off a 30-month pilot project to test the technology in Metro Vancouver. The project looks at bus performance, maintenance and customer experience.
> 
> “Today is truly the start of a new era, an era where clean energy is not just an option, but it is a default fuel of choice,” said TransLink CEO Kevin Desmond.
> 
> The two-and-a-half-year, $10-million project will see four battery-electric buses running on Route 100, powered by two charging stations at Marpole and 22nd Street stations. It takes about five minutes to charge a bus at each end of the 18-kilometre route, and the charge is good for about 100 kilometres.
> 
> Last fall, TransLink’s Mayors’ Council and board of directors approved the transit authority’s low-carbon fleet strategy, which calls for the agency to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 80 per cent and use 100-per-cent renewable energy in all operations by 2050.
> 
> Half of TransLink’s 1,500-bus fleet uses cleaner technology, including electric trolley buses, compressed natural gas buses and diesel-electric hybrid buses.
> 
> TransLink has also ordered six more battery-electric buses, which will come later next year and be added to Route 100. The goal is to make that route entirely electric.
> 
> Vancouver Sun


----------



## ainvan

Panning A Departing SkyTrain Mk III by Joe A. Kunzler, on Flickr


Panning An Expo Mk I on the SkyTrain Rails in the Vancouver Night by Joe A. Kunzler, on Flickr


SkyTrain 323 with the Lions Quebec & Terminal by Ian Fisher, on Flickr


A TransLink Canada Line Train One Sec From Arrival at Bridgeport by Joe A. Kunzler, on Flickr


Expo Line by Busologist, on Flickr


2019 - Vancouver - Juicier by Ted McGrath, on Flickr


----------



## Yellow Fever

The B.C. government has announced the locations of the six new underground stations for the future 5.7-kilometre extension of SkyTrain’s Millennium Line along Broadway.










Here are the stations announced Wednesday:

Great Northern Way — to be located on the east side of Thornton Street, just north of Great Northern Way. The government says this station will create better access to Emily Carr University of Art and Design’s Great Northern Way Campus and the emerging creative economy hub in the False Creek Flats.

Mount Pleasant — to be located at the southwest corner of Broadway and Main Street.

Broadway-City Hall — this station will use the existing entrance to the Canada Line at the southeast corner of Broadway and Cambie Street and will provide an underground connection between the Millennium and Canada lines.

Fairview-VGH — this station will be located on the southwest corner of Broadway and Laurel Street, near Oak Street. This location will provide access to Vancouver General Hospital and the rest of the medical district.

South Granville — this station will be located on the northeast corner of Broadway and Granville Street near the South Granville, Burrard Slopes and Granville Island neighbourhoods.
Arbutus — this station will be located at the northeast corner of Broadway and Arbutus Street. This station and bus loop will connect passengers destined for the University of B.C. with B-Line bus service.

https://vancouversun.com/news/local...broadway-skytrain-station-locations-announced


----------



## Yellow Fever

*TransLink's new SeaBus delayed to summer 2020*










The newest SeaBus that was supposed to start sailing across Burrard Inlet this summer has been delayed to next summer after modifications to the vessel left it sitting lower in the water than it should. 

The Burrard Chinook, made by Damen Shipyards in the Netherlands, sits several inches lower in the water than it is designed to after some additional equipment was added to meet Translink's requirements.

Coast Mountain Bus Company, which operates the ferries as part of its bus fleet, updated Translink's board Tuesday in New Westminster. 

The vessel, which arrived in Vancouver in May, underwent local sea trials in early August, according to company president Michael McDaniel. 

"We've decided to make some final modifications...to improve handling capability as it sits lower in the water than the other SeaBus vessels," McDaniel said.

That's because of the hull shape and the weight of the vessel, he said.

A significantly upgraded emission-control system that decreases emissions up to 75 per cent and increases air conditioning systems were added to the ship. 

There are concerns this could have adverse effects in rough sea conditions he said, adding there could be "alignment issues" in the terminals.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...abus-delayed-to-summer-2020-1.5297722?cmp=rss


----------



## Yellow Fever

*Task force recommends new eight-lane tube to replace Massey Tunnel*

Emphasis was placed on making sure that two lanes are reserved for some kind of rapid transit, both through the tunnel and on Highway 99.










Elected officials from communities on both sides of the George Massey Tunnel want the aging river crossing replaced with a new eight-lane tunnel.

The officials are members of a Metro Vancouver task force who chose from six crossing options proposed by the province. Their recommendation will be forwarded to a finance committee and then Metro’s board of directors for consideration, likely by the end of October or in November. A final Metro recommendation will be taken to public consultation by the province.

“I’m really pleased that the Metro Vancouver task force were able to come to agreement on the choice that they want to see for the crossing at the Massey Tunnel,” Transportation Minister Claire Trevena said.

Within months of taking office in 2017, the B.C. NDP government cancelled Liberals plans for a 10-lane, $3.5-billion bridge to replace the tunnel and commissioned a review. Shortly after the review was released last December, the province began consultations with Metro municipalities and First Nations, which had mostly opposed a 10-lane bridge.

“We’ve come a long way together in a relatively short period of time,” Lina Halwani, project director with the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, said during her presentation to the task force.

The new tunnel would be an immersed tube, like the existing four-lane Massey Tunnel, which means it’s constructed in pieces that are sunk into a river bottom trench and joined together. It would have six lanes for regular traffic and two dedicated to transit, plus a multi-use path.

https://vancouversun.com/news/local...-new-eight-lane-tube-to-replace-massey-tunnel


----------



## Yellow Fever

*Metro Vancouver bus drivers to hold strike vote
*

Wages are an issue, but union says increased transit use has resulted in overworked drivers

The union representing bus drivers in Metro Vancouver has set a strike vote for Oct. 10 but says it's still hopeful it can avoid a work stoppage.

"Right now, we're hoping to get the support of our members, get that mandate and return to negotiations to see if we can work out the issues," said Unifor director Gavin McGarrigle, who said talks with the TransLink-owned Coast Mountain Bus Company had broken down.

One of the main issues, according to McGarrigle, is the need to hire more drivers and provide more frequent breaks. 

TransLink — which owns the Coast Mountain Bus Company — experienced record ridership in 2018, bringing increased overcrowding on buses.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...st-mountain-bus-strike-vote-1.5308351?cmp=rss


----------



## Yellow Fever

*Bright red curb lanes in Vancouver remind drivers there is no stopping in the bus zone*

Red painted intersections ‘visually overwhelming’ to some










High-volume bus stops in Vancouver are getting red painted curb lanes aimed at reminding drivers there is no stopping in bus-only lanes.

The red zones are a pilot project between the City of Vancouver and TransLink — and have already popped up at several busy intersections.

"The brightly painted red zones act as a visual deterrent and are becoming an industry standard in North America as municipalities and transit agencies work to keep buses moving amid increasing congestion," TransLink said in a statement.

The newly painted zones aren't proving very popular with some people on social media, however, who say they are more of a distraction.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...-out-of-vancouver-bus-lanes-1.5307830?cmp=rss


----------



## Yellow Fever

*Metro Vancouver bus drivers vote 99% in favour of strike mandate*

Wages are an issue, but union says increased transit use has resulted in overworked drivers

Employees of the Coast Mountain Bus Company voted overwhelmingly in favour of a strike mandate on Thursday night, with 99 per cent supporting the motion.

The vote comes after negotiations for a new collective agreement broke down last week, according to a news release from Unifor, which represents 5,000 workers at the transit company, including bus drivers, Seabus workers and maintenance staff in Metro Vancouver.

"Our members take the responsibility of providing safe, dependable public transportation seriously and they're asking Coast Mountain to properly recognize the dedication and effort that the workers put in day in and day out to properly deliver it," Unifor national president Jerry Dias said in the release.

The two union locals involved in the strike vote — Unifor Local 111 and 2200 — have been without a contract since March 31. Union representatives have said that major sticking points are:

the need to hire more drivers
establish wages competitive with other major transit agencies
reduce overcrowding on buses 
and provide longer breaks. 
"They don't have enough time at the end of their run to go the washroom, take a break, to eat some food, and to just reset themselves so they can provide good passenger and customer service," said Gavin McGarrigle, Unifor's western regional director.

"The end result is overworked drivers and that's a serious safety issue that must be dealt with at the table," said McGarrigle.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...ountain-bus-strike-vote-yes-1.5317525?cmp=rss


----------



## Yellow Fever

*TransLink proposes new bus routes for new year*










With ridership on the rise, TransLink is proposing two new bus routes from Metrotown to the North Shore and Vancouver's River District.

"In a region experiencing unprecedented ridership growth and expecting to grow by more than a million people in the next 30 years — the needs of our customers are changing rapidly. This is a great opportunity for us to better serve our customers," TransLink CEO Kevin Desmond said in a statement.

TransLink reported record ridership in 2018 with 52 of its routes experiencing consistent overcrowding, up by 37 per cent.

The need for extra connectivity to North Vancouver and the River District was identified in TransLink's Transit Network Review in April.

If approved, the new services could start running as early as next year.



















https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...new-bus-routes-for-new-year-1.5338442?cmp=rss


----------



## Yellow Fever

*TransLink proposes new bus routes for new year*










With ridership on the rise, TransLink is proposing two new bus routes from Metrotown to the North Shore and Vancouver's River District.

"In a region experiencing unprecedented ridership growth and expecting to grow by more than a million people in the next 30 years — the needs of our customers are changing rapidly. This is a great opportunity for us to better serve our customers," TransLink CEO Kevin Desmond said in a statement.

TransLink reported record ridership in 2018 with 52 of its routes experiencing consistent overcrowding, up by 37 per cent.

The need for extra connectivity to North Vancouver and the River District was identified in TransLink's Transit Network Review in April.

If approved, the new services could start running as early as next year.



















https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...new-bus-routes-for-new-year-1.5338442?cmp=rss


----------



## Yellow Fever

*Microsoft to host conference on Vancouver-Seattle-Portland high-speed rail*










The first major conference on the ambitious vision to connect the Pacific Northwest’s three major urban centres with a high-speed rail service will be held next week.

Government officials from all three jurisdictions, various business and industry interests, and rail industry representatives will be descending on the Microsoft headquarters in the Seattle suburb of Redmond for the Cascadia Rail Summit from November 6 to 8, 2019.

Attendees will be learning more about high-speed rail and how the proposed project linking Vancouver, Seattle, and Portland can be advanced.


Speakers slated from north of the border include Simon Fraser University’s professor Anthony Perl, and City of Vancouver transportation director Lon LaClaire.

Microsoft has been a key proponent of the Cascadia high-speed rail project, and one of the key sources of funding for the various early analysis work performed since 2017, supplementing the funding provided by both the state governments of Washington and Oregon, and the provincial government of BC.

An initial 2017-study led by Washington State’s Department of Transportation received USD $300,000 in funding from the state government and another $50,000 from Microsoft....

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/cascadia-rail-summit-seattle-vancouver-high-speed-rail-2019


----------



## marzi01

Today is the first day of service for the double-deckers


----------



## Yellow Fever

^^ Yes it is.


*TransLink's first double-decker bus officially hits the streets in Metro Vancouver
*










Yes, you are seeing double.

TransLink's first double-decker bus had its official maiden voyage Wednesday morning, serving commuters on the 620 route from the Bridgeport station in Richmond to the Tsawwassen Ferry Terminal and vice versa.

As of now, service is limited to that route, but Dan Mountain with TransLink says over the coming months, the 620 route will have more double-decker buses added and service will be expanded to the 301 route from Newton Exchange to Richmond-Brighouse.

By January 2020, double-decker buses will also be used on the 555 route between Lougheed Station and Carvolth Exchange

An order of 25 more double-deckers is scheduled to arrive by fall 2020 expanding to more routes throughout the region. 

The pilot project began in November 2017 in response to Translink's surging ridership, and after four months, it was deemed a success.

According to TransLink, the double-decker bus has 87 seats which is almost double the capacity of a 12-metre bus.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...-streets-in-metro-vancouver-1.5341929?cmp=rss


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## fieldsofdreams

^^ One of my friends who lives along the 301 near Scott Road would immensely benefit from the double decker, yet he will surely miss the Orion V suburban bus once those have been completely phased out. However, he is particularly worried about Line 319 getting overcrowded all the time that longer buses or vehicles with greater capacity are needed soon.


----------



## lightrail

Yellow Fever said:


> ^^ Yes it is.
> 
> 
> *TransLink's first double-decker bus officially hits the streets in Metro Vancouver
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you are seeing double.
> 
> TransLink's first double-decker bus had its official maiden voyage Wednesday morning, serving commuters on the 620 route from the Bridgeport station in Richmond to the Tsawwassen Ferry Terminal and vice versa.
> 
> As of now, service is limited to that route, but Dan Mountain with TransLink says over the coming months, the 620 route will have more double-decker buses added and service will be expanded to the 301 route from Newton Exchange to Richmond-Brighouse.
> 
> By January 2020, double-decker buses will also be used on the 555 route between Lougheed Station and Carvolth Exchange
> 
> An order of 25 more double-deckers is scheduled to arrive by fall 2020 expanding to more routes throughout the region.
> 
> The pilot project began in November 2017 in response to Translink's surging ridership, and after four months, it was deemed a success.
> 
> According to TransLink, the double-decker bus has 87 seats which is almost double the capacity of a 12-metre bus.
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...-streets-in-metro-vancouver-1.5341929?cmp=rss


I hope those double-deckers on the 620 have luggage racks. If not, this is a BIG mistake. With the amount of luggage people carry on the 620 to and from the ferry, the articulated buses are better suited. Good luck getting luggage up the stairs. I'm at a loss as to why Translink thinks this is a good idea.


----------



## hkskyline

R19402 by Juan_M._Sanchez, on Flickr

R19402 by Juan_M._Sanchez, on Flickr


----------



## hkskyline

* Skytrain Contract Talks Go Off The Rails *
Vancouver Sun _Excerpt_
14 November 2019

SkyTrain workers who operate and maintain the Expo and Millennium lines are considering next steps after contract talks broke off between their union and the B.C. Rapid Transit Company.

However, in an attempt to reassure transit users already dealing with SeaBus and bus disruptions caused by striking workers, CUPE 7000 president Tony Rebelo said there are no plans for job action by the 900 SkyTrain attendants, control operators, administration, maintenance and technical staff.

"It's business as usual. Our members are coming to work, loving their jobs, and are proud of what they do, but at this time there is no job action whatsoever and no disruptions," said Rebelo. "We want to keep everyone at ease that yes, talks have broken down, but our main goal is still to get a deal done without disrupting any type of service."

Rebelo said the union has meetings scheduled with its membership for this week and early next week, at which time it will present the company's offer.

No further talks have been scheduled with the company.

More : https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/contract-negotiations-for-skytrain-workers-reach-impasse


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## Yellow Fever

Skytrain at Brighhouse Station, Richmond

IMG_6500 by Hung Lam, on Flickr

IMG_6497 by Hung Lam, on Flickr


----------



## Yellow Fever

lightrail said:


> I hope those double-deckers on the 620 have luggage racks. If not, this is a BIG mistake. With the amount of luggage people carry on the 620 to and from the ferry, the articulated buses are better suited. Good luck getting luggage up the stairs. I'm at a loss as to why Translink thinks this is a good idea.


Good point, myself haven't got on the new one yet but I doubt it has the luggage racks. Imo, the lower deck should be modified and reserved as the priority seating for people with luggage.


----------



## Yellow Fever

Preliminary station design, images of Broadway stations via B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure.


































































https://vancouver.skyrisecities.com/forum/threads/broadway-subway.24099/page-2#post-1511015


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## Woonsocket54

Vancouver-area rapid bus network launches 2020.01.06.

96 B-Line bus becomes R1 rapid bus.
R2 rapid bus will launch between February and April 2020.
R3 and R4 are brand new rapid bus corridors.
95 B-Line bus becomes R5 rapid bus.









https://www.translink.ca/Plans-and-Projects/RapidBus-Program.aspx

Here is what the buses will look like:









https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/translink-rapidbus-routes









https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/translink-rapid-buses-january-6-1.5403235

Bus stop totem









https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/translink-rapidbus-display-stop-signs


----------



## Woonsocket54

*Newly introduced "Rapid Bus" network in Vancouver*









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:TransLink_B18046_R3.jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Translink_B18006_R4.jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:TransLink_B18032_R1.jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Translink_19025_R5.jpg









https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/elz2zr/the_new_rapidbus_stops_friendly_reminder_that/

updated fast-and-frequent network map:









https://new.translink.ca/schedules-and-maps/transit-system-maps

Also, double-decker buses now run on route 555









https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/...er-bus-fleet-translink-vancouver-2020-2005277


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## marzi01

They could have included line 145 in the map


----------



## Woonsocket54

"*New Canada Line trains increase service for customers*"

https://buzzer.translink.ca/2020/01/new-canada-line-trains-increase-service-for-customers/


----------



## Yellow Fever

*TransLink increases Canada Line capacity during peak hours by 15% with 4 new trains*










B.C.'s transit authority, TransLink, is promising a bit more breathing room for train passengers on the Canada Line between Richmond and Vancouver.

Vancouver Centre MP Hedy Fry, Mayor Malcolm Brodie, and TransLink announced Tuesday that four new trains will be put into service immediately, increasing customer capacity by 15 per cent during the peak hours.

"The aim is to take cars off the road and increase the demand for public transit," said Mayor Brodie. "This is the first step toward the objective of increasing the line's overall capacity by 35 per cent this year based on meeting the timely delivery schedule for new vehicles."

The transit authority said the new trains will provide more space, frequency and comfort for the service that was popular when it opened a decade ago and has grown in ridership by 25 per cent since then.

The addition is the first of 12 new trains being rolled out as part of the Metro Mayors' Council's 10-year transit expansion plan...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/translink-trains-canada-line-1.5435094?cmp=rss


----------



## Yellow Fever

*BC government planning commuter rail from Metro Vancouver to Fraser Valley*










Interregional rail public transit could be coming to the Lower Mainland, providing a new link between the Metro Vancouver and Fraser Valley regions.

“British Columbians can look forward to more options like rapid transit, HOV lanes, and commuter rail out to the Fraser Valley, and high-speed rail connections with our neighbours to the south.”

“With a million more people coming to the Lower Mainland, the growth of the region including the Fraser Valley will depend on a strong transportation system,” reads the email.

“Without action, people and goods will be stuck in congestion, which is why we are working with regional mayors, TransLink and other stakeholders on the role that a range of transportation options, including commuter rail, HOV lanes, and high-speed connections with our neighbours to the south. Working together, we can keep people in the Valley moving now and for years to come.”

Over the years, the City of Abbotsford has been particularly vocal over their desire for a new rail transit link to the Fraser Valley, with city council recently approving city staff’s request to send a letter to TransLink to summarize the importance of regional connections, and work with TransLink, BC Transit, the FVRD, provincial government, and other municipal governments to review long-term transit needs, transit priorities, corridors, and funding options.










https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/commuter-rail-fraser-valley-vancouver


----------



## Woonsocket54

"*SkyTrain announcements now include which side doors open on*"

https://buzzer.translink.ca/2020/02/skytrain-announcements-now-include-which-side-doors-open-on/


----------



## hkskyline

R19410 by Blue Bus Fan, on Flickr


----------



## hkskyline

B18041 by Juan_M._Sanchez, on Flickr


----------



## ssiguy2

The Fraser Valley desperately needs commuter and preferable suburban {each way, all day} rail. I hope these trains will be electric battery or hydrogen as diesel would be too slow to say nothing of the pollution. 

The problem is that the line ends in Surrey. Certainly still very useful for people travelling within the Valley itself but many from the Valley will use it to get downtown. This means they will have to get off an take the SkyTrain and the SkyTrain system does not have the capacity. The trains are only 70 meters long so even 200 or 300 per commuter train will pack the trains before they leave Surrey. If they are going ahead they should, at a minimum, extend the stations to 105 meters which they were designed for which would increase the SkyTrain capacity by 50%. Ideally they would continue the route over the Fraser to downtown via the Broadway/Lougheed cut. This would be far more convenient, comfortable, faster, and actually help reduce capacity problems on the SkyTrain Expo Line.


----------



## Yellow Fever

*TransLink seeking up to $447 million for over 600 new electric-battery buses*

Metro Vancouver’s public transit authority revealed its ambitious plan today of replacing as many as half of the diesel, diesel-hybrid, and natural gas buses entering retirement this decade with new zero-emission, electric-battery bus models.

This new Low Carbon Fleet Strategy by TransLink over 10 years has a target of acquiring up to 635 electric-battery buses to replace aging 40-ft regular buses and 60-ft articulated buses that use combustion fuels.

There are three scenarios ranging from cautious, progressive, and aggressive approaches to the scale of the electrification transition, but TransLink staff are recommending that the Mayors’ Council approve the aggressive approach, which will help the public transit authority reach its 2050 goal of reducing its greenhouse gas emissions by 80%, with an interim target of 45% by 2030.

“Transitioning the bus fleet to zero-emissions technology is an essential step toward breaking the region’s dependence on fossil fuels,” said TransLink CEO Kevin Desmond in a statement. “This strategy sets out a bold course that will eventually allow us to provide 100% green public transportation.”

To proceed with any of the scenarios, TransLink needs between $95 million and $447 million over the coming decade, given the higher upfront costs of acquiring electric-battery buses, which are roughly double the cost of acquiring a diesel bus, as well as the extensive new charging infrastructure required. Each charging unit costs about $1 million...










https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/translink-low-carbon-fleet-strategy-electric-battery-buses


----------



## Yellow Fever

*Possible Burrard Inlet rapid-transit crossings identified in next phase of study
*
The possibilities aren’t endless but there’s at least six options for where a rapid-transit crossing could connect the North Shore to Vancouver.

The province is continuing the second phase of its technical feasibility study looking at where a high-capacity transit crossing, such as for SkyTrain, could be built between Vancouver and the North Shore.

In Phase 2, officials will explore the technical details around each of the six options for crossing points, which were identified in Phase 1. Three of those would see a tunnel crossing constructed, while two would be new bridge crossings and the final option would use an existing bridge crossing.

Those crossings points are:

• Downtown Vancouver to Lonsdale via First Narrows (tunnel crossing).

• Downtown Vancouver to Lonsdale via Brockton Point (tunnel crossing).

• Downtown Vancouver to West Vancouver via Lonsdale (tunnel crossing).

• Downtown Vancouver to Lonsdale via Second Narrows (new-bridge crossing).

• Burnaby to Lonsdale via Second Narrows (new-bridge crossing).

• Burnaby to Lonsdale via Second Narrows (existing bridge crossing).










“We know that people living and working on the North Shore are frustrated with traffic congestion that has been increasing for years,” said Transportation Minister Claire Trevena in a statement announcing the study’s second phase. “By investing in this study, our government is helping to take a serious look at solutions that expand our public transportation network to better connect communities and to help people move around freely. The results from this study will support the North Shore and surrounding communities with their long-term transportation planning.”

The possibility of rapid transit from Vancouver to the North Shore was among the recommendations in a 2018 planning project led by Bowinn Ma, MLA for North Vancouver-Lonsdale. It recommended study of a 3.2-kilometre Lonsdale Quay-Waterfront Station tunnel, even though that is the deepest and widest part of Burrard Inlet...

https://vancouversun.com/news/local...identified-in-next-phase-of-feasibility-study


----------



## hkskyline

* With its short-term money problems taken care of by the provincial and federal governments, TransLink is working on a long-term, post COVID-19 investment plan for Metro Vancouver transit. *
Vancouver Sun _Excerpt_
Oct 2, 2020

With its short-term money problems taken care of by the provincial and federal governments, TransLink is working on a long-term, post COVID-19 investment plan for Metro Vancouver transit.

TransLink has been hammered by the pandemic, which has driven down ridership and revenue, and after months of lobbying by local politicians the transit agency will receive $644 million as part of a $1.08-billion funding package for local governments and public transportation. It’s expected the money will materialize by the end of March.

“Importantly, this funding means we can go into our 2021 budget process confident that we can maintain our current service levels, maintain the core of our capital program,” CEO Kevin Desmond said at a Mayors Council meeting on Thursday. “There’s still challenges along the way, but we at least have stabilized at this point.”

On top of that bailout money, TransLink has trimmed $136 million in costs by deferring some capital projects, reducing 2020 major road network operations, maintenance and rehabilitation funding, scaling down non-service operating expenditures and deferring service expansions planned for 2020 and ’21.

Desmond said the government money and cost-savings should cover TransLink’s revenue losses — which were estimated at between $544 million and $1 billion — through this year and much of 2021.

More : COVID-19: Post-pandemic planning begins for Metro Vancouver transit


----------



## hkskyline

* TransLink CEO Kevin Desmond announces departure after five years *
The Globe and Mail _Excerpt_
Oct 20, 2020

The man who ran British Columbia’s TransLink during one of the most successful periods in the history of the regional transportation agency has announced he’s going back to the United States.

Kevin Desmond, who took over as chief executive officer in 2015, when regional mayors had just failed to win a referendum aimed at providing new money for the system, told the TransLink board Monday that he will leave in early 2021 to pursue other opportunities in his home country.

The move did not come as a total surprise to many. Mr. Desmond’s family had never moved to Vancouver from Washington State, where he had been general manager of King County’s transit, and the COVID-19 pandemic has added difficulty to his commuting.

“When he first arrived, he’d given the organization a time of five to seven years," said New Westminster Mayor Jonathan Coté, head of the TransLink mayors' council.

"We know his family is still in Washington State and he’s been back and forth, but his movement has been more restricted. I think COVID-19 may have sped up the timeline because of the personal impact of his work life.”

More : TransLink CEO Kevin Desmond announces departure after five years


----------



## RyukyuRhymer

dimlys1994 said:


> From Rail Journal:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Preferred bidder announced for Vancouver SkyTrain extension
> 
> 
> The provincial government of British Columbia has selected the preferred bidder for the design and construction of Vancouver's Broadway Subway Project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.railjournal.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 325465


a small update









Construction of Vancouver Broadway Subway in Canada set to begin


Construction of the US $1.3bn Vancouver Broadway Subway in British Colombia, Canada is set to start. The new extension will open in 2025




constructionreviewonline.com


----------



## NorthStyle

fml there was the virus and it set everything back


----------



## hkskyline

Please Stand Back Until Passengers Exit by Noah Díaz, on Flickr


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## urbanflight

*Shovels Ready for Vancouver’s Broadway Subway Project*

*







*


> Construction of the US $1.3bn Vancouver Broadway Subway in British Colombia, Canada is set to start. This is after the Broadway Subway Project Corporation, formed by Ghella and the Spanish firm ACCIONA, reached financial close to build the Broadway Subway Project, an extension of the Millennium Line and a key link for the Vancouver transit system.
> 
> Using a design-build-finance approach, includes the design and construction of 5.7 new kilometres of network, part of which will be underground twin tunnels with an excavation diameter of 6.3 metres and six new stations.
> 
> *Vancouver Broadway Subway*
> 
> The construction of the subway will start in late 2020, with the new extension opening in 2025. Once in service, the trip from VCC-Clark to Arbutus Station will take 11 minutes, saving the average transit commuter almost 30 minutes a day and relieving congestion along Broadway. This will significantly reduce greenhouse gas emissions: a sustainable solution that will benefit the whole Vancouver community.
> 
> The Broadway Subway Project will be funded and delivered by the government of British Columbia, with contributions from the government of Canada and the city of Vancouver. It is a key part of the rapid transit program in metro Vancouver’s Mayors’ Council 10-Year Vision, which is funded by the governments of British Columbia and Canada, TransLink, and local municipalities.
> 
> “As we restore the economy through BC’s Restart Plan, major infrastructure projects like the Broadway Subway line will be key to our recovery,” John Horgan, Premier of British Columbia, said. “When completed, the Broadway Subway will transform how people get around in Vancouver. It will mean faster travel to work and school, better access to local business, and fewer cars on the road.”


*







*



















*



*


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## urbanflight

*TransLink first in North America to test copper coating on transit*








> TransLink will be the first transit system in North America to pilot the use of bacteria and virus killing copper on high-touch transit surfaces. This industry-leading project is part of a study that will see various copper-based products and a protective coating called organosilane installed on SkyTrain and buses to test how effective these agents are at destroying viruses and bacteria on transit.
> 
> 
> 
> “We’re proud to be the first transit agency in North America to pilot this industry-leading technology and I look forward to working closely with our project partners. We’ve been carefully examining new ways to ensure transit is one of the safest public spaces throughout the pandemic. The risk of COVID-19 transmission on transit remains extremely low and this initiative will only bolster our comprehensive cleaning protocols which are already in place. Any findings from this pilot project will be shared with our fellow transit agency colleagues and other industries which may be able to use this emerging technology,” said Kevin Desmond, TransLink CEO.
> 
> 
> 
> There will be comprehensive testing as part of the initial *four-week pilot* phase:
> 
> Products will be installed on two trolley buses on high-ridership routes and two SkyTrain cars on the Expo and Millennium Lines.
> Twice weekly the surfaces will be swabbed and tested to determine antimicrobial effectiveness of the products.
> At the end of one month, the surfaces will also be assessed for durability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The results of this pilot could have wide-reaching impacts for infection prevention for the transit industry and other industries that rely on shared public spaces.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> (...)
Click to expand...


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## hkskyline

* Metro Vancouver mayors want permanent federal transit funding sooner *
Vancouver Sun _Excerpt_
Nov 14, 2020

Metro Vancouver's mayors are appealing to the federal government to include a $34-billion permanent public transit fund in its 2021 budget.

The fund, a promise the Liberals made in the run-up to last year's federal election, is something the TransLink's Mayors Council and the Federation of Canadian Municipalities had initially wanted to see in place by 2028. It would provide an estimated $375 million per year to Metro Vancouver's transit authority.

The mayors say that having it in place seven years sooner will help with the next four-tofive years of recovery from the COVID-19 pandemic, which decimated TransLink's ridership and finances, and provide funding for approved projects and longer-term planning.

"Although the pandemic has reduced TransLink's ridership and revenues, this setback is temporary, and we must continue looking to the future knowing that transit will remain a critical component of our region's economy and quality of life," Mayors Council chairman Jonathan Coté wrote in a letter sent this week to Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance Chrystia Freeland and Minister of Infrastructure and Communities Catherine McKenna.

"Continued long-term, predictable federal partnership is a key piece to our path ahead."

More : Metro Vancouver mayors want permanent federal transit funding sooner


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## urbanflight

Great news! Hope this move forward ✅👏🙌

This could help fund more rapid transit investment.

*Vancouver council approves plan that could set fees to drive into downtown core*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329112889496571909


> *Plan also proposes a carbon pollution surcharge on gas or diesel vehicles*
> 
> Vancouver city council has approved a Climate Emergency Action Plan that could see a levy placed on all vehicles entering the downtown core.
> 
> Green Party Coun. Pete Fry said in a social media post that council voted in favour of the plan Tuesday night.
> It's said to be part of a drive to make Vancouver one of the greenest cities in the world.
> 
> Another section of the plan proposes a carbon pollution surcharge on gas or diesel vehicles.
> 
> The entire strategy is not slated to take effect until at least 2025 and meetings will be held over the next 18 months to gather public reaction.
> 
> Fry says a lot of work lies ahead to address issues related to equity, economy and resilience.
> 
> "To be sure, there will be a lot of consultation on transport pricing" Fry says in his post.
> 
> He says by the time the plan is implemented in 2025, other North American cities will have similar strategies that "will make this seem less scary."




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1329106023211180032


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## Yellow Fever

Close to Metrotown Station, Burnaby

IMG_6919 by Hung Lam, on Flickr


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## urbanflight

*City of Vancouver planning to speed up TransLink buses on 10 major street corridors*













> As many as 10 major arterial street corridors that are heavily used by TransLink bus services, but experience congestion and delays, could see bus priority measures at some point over the span of this decade.
> 
> The City of Vancouver plans to work with the public transit authority to develop new strategies that help speed up and improve the reliability of bus services.
> 
> Bus priority measures include the practice of “bus stop balancing” of removing bus stops where they are too closely spaced, building bus bulges and boarding islands on the curbside lane so that buses do not have to pull into and out of a stop, implementing bus-only lanes and queue jumpers, adding left-turn regulations and right-turn lanes, and introducing transit signal priority that advances buses at major intersections.


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## urbanflight

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1335129278879588353


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## hkskyline

* Local entrepreneur installs PPE vending machine at Waterfront Station *
Vancouver Sun _Excerpt_
Dec 8, 2020

We’re used to buying snacks and drinks from vending machines and a local entrepreneur hopes people will become just as accustomed to buying a face mask or sanitizer from such a device.

What is likely the first vending machine in B.C. that sells products designed to protect against the spread of COVID-19 has been installed at Waterfront Station, said Edvin Muminovic, who owns the machine.

The automatic kiosk will vend masks, face shields, sanitizer and sanitizing wipes in a cashless-card or phones-only transaction. They’ll range in price from $2 for a disposable mask to $12.50 for a reusable cloth mask with a filter at what Muminovic said are competitive retail prices. 

More : Local entrepreneur installs PPE vending machine at Waterfront Station


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## hkskyline

* Translink fare hikes reduced for four years; Increase half of rate approved two years ago *
Vancouver Sun _Excerpt_
Dec 12, 2020

Metro Vancouver's transit authority has agreed to limit its fare increases to 2.3 per cent for the next four years, under an agreement that it signed with the B.C. government. 

That means next year's fare hike will be about half of what was set out in a longrange plan that was approved two years ago.

In October, TransLink signed a "safe restart" contribution agreement in order to receive $644 million in federal and provincial money meant to help alleviate the effects of the COVID-19 pandemic. The agreement was made public last week.

The relief money is divided into two parts: $600 million to cover the financial impacts of the pandemic in 2020 and 2021, plus $44 million to cover losses from the limits on fare increases. "The amount set out in the contribution agreement does make TransLink whole with respect to the capping of the transit fare increases for the next few years," said TransLink Mayors' Council chair Jonathan Cote.

More : TransLink fare hikes capped for four years under provincial agreement


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## urbanflight

*TransLink to buy 205 new SkyTrain cars from Bombardier for $723 million*










Awarding the contract for 205 SkyTrain cars for the Expo and Millennium Upgrade Program (EMUP), including an option for up to 400 additional cars at TransLink’s discretion which option is subject to future project approvals as may be required, to Bombardier Transportation Canada Inc

The unit price per car of $3.5M for the new SkyTrains includes;
o Enhancements and improved features as compared to the most recent MarkIII cars
o Better warranty program and reliability requirements as compared to the Mark III contract
o More favorable contract terms and conditions than the MarkIII contract
The total value of this contract will be $722,592,636 for 205 SkyTrain cars

Enhancements and Improved Features

• The new SkyTrain cars will include the following improved features:
o Trains will be in a 5-car configuration versus the Mark III design that has 4 cars
o TOP VOBC is a new and improved VOBC design
o Provisions for in-train PIDS
o Provisions for new communication system (STARS)
o Provisions for passenger Wi-Fi
o LED headlight
o Extra middle interior light for door status
o Added fault detection light to each door
o Bike rack
o Fold down hostler seat
o Modified HVAC with extra cooling
o West coast art on seats
o West coast art on windscreens
o New end cap design
o Seating arrangement as per public engagement survey result
o 15% improvement on reliability

The first new train is scheduled to be delivered to TransLink in October 2023 for the commencement of testing. The second train is expected to arrive June 2024, and all subsequent trains will be delivered at a rate of about one per month until the last train is delivered in September 2027.

https://www.translink.ca/-/media/tr...er/2020_12_17_public_board_meeting_agenda.pdf


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## hkskyline

*TransLink board approves pandemic budget for 2021 *
Vancouver Sun _Excerpt_
Dec 18, 2020

A senior government bailout, deferred projects and organizational cutbacks have helped TransLink deliver a balanced budget for 2021, despite significant financial losses due to COVID-19.

However, Metro Vancouver’s transit authority will have to deal with a long-term funding gap when crafting its next investment plan.

TransLink CEO Kevin Desmond told the authority’s board of directors on Thursday that the budget is the culmination of work that began in the summer.

“COVID-19 has created well-documented havoc on our finances, just like transit agencies throughout the world that continue to struggle with depressed ridership and revenues,” Desmond said. “Over many months, our team created multiple financial scenarios, took a detailed look at our entire budget, and worked closely with our government partners.”

TransLink’s ridership, along with the fare revenue is provides, has taken a major hit during the pandemic, and it is expected to remain well below normal next year. Planned fare increases have been curtailed — this year’s was eliminated altogether.

More : TransLink board approves pandemic budget for 2021


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## Majo1972

urbanflight said:


> *Shovels Ready for Vancouver’s Broadway Subway Project*
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Why don’t they just elevate all these lines? It’s way too expensive to tunnel.


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## Nouvellecosse

You don't put elevated structures over the street because it's too dark and ugly. Maybe if it was a really wide street or one with buildings set further back but not otherwise it's a non-starter.


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## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:









TransLink orders additional trains for Vancouver SkyTrain


TransLink has awarded a $C 721m ($US 565m) contract to Bombardier Transportation for the supply of 41 five-car trains for Vancouver's SkyTrain network.




www.railjournal.com


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## Yellow Fever

*New additional Capstan Station* on Canada Line in Richmond


































































https://twitter.com/iamkennethchan


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## hkskyline

CMBC_19036_Xcelsior XDE60_Rapidbus by Shahid Bhinder, on Flickr


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## hkskyline

* Braille signage, tactile walking surfaces to be added to 8,400 Metro Vancouver bus stops *
CBC _Excerpt_
Dec 16, 2021

TransLink says it is taking a major step toward making its service more accessible by equipping thousands of Metro Vancouver bus stops with braille signage.

In a statement Thursday, the transit authority said 8,400 bus stops will be equipped with the tactile bus schedule information for people who are blind or partially sighted. It also plans to install tactile walking surface indicators at every bus stop on property that TransLink owns or leases.

Tactile walking surface indicators are intended to be detectable underfoot when walking or while using a long white cane. The surfaces are used to alert people with low or no vision of potential hazards, such as moving vehicular traffic.

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/braille-8400-translink-bus-stops-1.6288543


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## Yellow Fever

*Construction begins on Broadway Subway's elevated track*

While the 5.7-km-long SkyTrain extension of the Millennium Line is largely underground, it also entails a not insignificant 700-metre long elevated segment running between VCC-Clark Station and the area immediately next to Emily Carr University of Art and Design (ECUAD). 

Contractors began their work today on drilling piles for the foundations of 21 columns that will support the elevated guideway, which will be finished with the installation of horizontal supports and slabs.

This elevated guideway segment is expected to reach completion by the end of 2022.

















The tunnel portal for the subway is located immediately north of ECUAD, where the elevated guideway transitions into an underground alignment for the remainder of the new route.

Excavation is currently well underway for both the tunnel portal and the tunnel boring pit, which will double as the underground volume for Great Northern Way-Emily Carr Station.


































Construction begins on Broadway Subway's elevated track | Urbanized


Construction has officially commenced on the Broadway Subway's elevated guideway segment that runs through the False Creek Flats.




dailyhive.com


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## hkskyline

* This Week in History, 1982: Work begins on Vancouver's SkyTrain*
Vancouver Sun _Excerpt_
Mar 4, 2022 

Forty years ago, B.C. Premier Bill Bennett donned a construction helmet, climbed into a backhoe and launched the scoop into the ground. After years of municipal, provincial and federal politicians arguing about the appropriate rapid transit system for Vancouver, work was finally underway on the SkyTrain system.

But it wasn’t called SkyTrain when Bennett had his photo-op on March 1, 1982. It was the ALRT — Advanced Light Rapid Transit.

It was controversial, largely because it was a new-fangled high-tech system that didn’t have a driver. Many municipal politicians, including then-Vancouver mayor Mike Harcourt, favoured a cheaper alternative using tried and true technology and regular rail lines.

More : This Week in History, 1982: Work begins on Vancouver's SkyTrain


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## Yellow Fever

*Washington State approves $150 million to plan Vancouver-Seattle high-speed rail*









The legislature of Washington State has approved a spending measure of US$150 million (CA$192 million) to proceed with advanced planning work on the proposed Cascadia high-speed rail passenger service linking Vancouver, Seattle, and Portland.

The funding is just one component of an approved 16-year, US$17 billion (CA$21.7 billion) comprehensive transportation expansion and improvement plan introduced by the Democrats. In the final vote on Thursday, it saw bi-partisan Republican support on the floor.
During media availability following the decision, Governor Jay Inslee deemed the plan, called Move Ahead Washington, to be the “cleanest and greenest transportation package in the history of Washington.”

The state government’s funding for the high-speed rail planning component takes advantage of up to US$700 million (CA$894 million) in matching federal funding that could be made available by President Joe Biden’s US$1 trillion (CA$1.28 trillion) national infrastructure plan.

Funding from both the state and federal governments — potentially up to US$850 million (CA$1.09 billion) combined — would push the high-speed rail project to a new phase of advanced planning. This would include more detailed technical work, geotechnical studies, environmental impact studies, public consultation, and development on a business case and funding models.

In December 2020, a report summarizing the project work-to-date stated the next step to move the project into further planning development would be to establish a new coordinating organization based on the tri-jurisdictional partnership agreement.

Preliminary estimates made in 2019 put the total cost of detailed planning, final engineering and design, and construction of the project between US$24 billion (CA$30.7 billion) and US$42 billion (CA$53.6 billion), based on construction occurring from 2027 to 2024, with the service opening in 2035.

As many as 30 roundtrips could be made per day every day of the year, depending on the scenario, using 260-seat trains. It would see 2.1 million annual riders upon opening, with ridership growing to 3.3 million annually by 2055.








Washington State approves $150 million to plan Vancouver-Seattle high-speed rail | Urbanized


The Washington State legislature has approved the $17 billion Moving Ahead transportation plan, including $150 million for high-speed rail.




dailyhive.com


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## BoulderGrad

> Preliminary estimates made in 2019 put the total cost of detailed planning, final engineering and design, and construction of the project between US$24 billion (CA$30.7 billion) and US$42 billion (CA$53.6 billion), based on construction occurring from 2027 to 2024, with the service opening in 2035.


The original cost estimate for California HSR was $30bil, but has since ballooned to $80bil, probably eclipsing $100bil when all is said and done.



> As many as 30 roundtrips could be made per day every day of the year, depending on the scenario, using 260-seat trains. It would see 2.1 million annual riders upon opening, with ridership growing to 3.3 million annually by 2055.


The ridership for CHSR Phase 1 was predicted to be around 30mil/yr between LA and San Fran. 

I predict that a Cascades HSR line would easily exceed that 3.3mil/yr figure, but even if it were 5mil... 6mil... per year... We're talking something that would cost nearly the same as CSHR but have a fraction of the ridership. Not exactly a healthy long term business case considering folks were already questioning the business case of CHSR. I fear that would make such a project doomed to fail.

Just getting the existing line up to 125mph/100mph average speed service would still make it much more attractive than driving and almost as convenient as a flight between the 3 big PNW cities, meaning it could easily come close to (or even meet/beat) the 3.3mil/yr ridership and cost a fraction of what's needed for a full HSR line. It might also be a little more cost certain as you'd be upgrading existing trackage rather than trying to run a whole new corridor through a very litigation happy country. Use the money you saved to buy the track off of BNSF to improve schedule certainty. Maybe even pay for electrification (Caltrain's Electrification/modernization is running about $2.5bil for a 77 mile line sooo figure ~$15bil for electrification of the whole 466 mile route)?


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## Stuu

BoulderGrad said:


> Maybe even pay for electrification (Caltrain's Electrification/modernization is running about $2.5bil for a 77 mile line sooo figure ~$15bil for electrification of the whole 466 mile route)?


The most expensive electrification in the UK has cost around £3m a mile per single track, so about $4.5m. That includes having to rebuild a lot of bridges over the tracks, which the US doesn't have many of... so it should be possible for a similar amount. Even $10m per mile of track would only cost $5-6bn including the stations and trains. If they were serious about proper high speed rail then electrifying the existing route would be the best way to start, then they could build the easy bits of high speed line and connect them straight away to the existing route, so it could be developed over time as money allows


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## pccvspw999

Yellow Fever said:


> *Washington State approves $150 million to plan Vancouver-Seattle high-speed rail*
> 
> View attachment 2921631
> 
> [...]


Sorry, but wasn't there a better picture to show, instead of the russian SAPSAN train?


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## tojaniety

pccvspw999 said:


> Sorry, but wasn't there a better picture to show, instead of the russian SAPSAN train?


So now everything russian is bad? Please, no politics. How about french trains? They don't sell weapons to many countries, right? Or american/german/israeli?


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## TER200

Maybe an american train would look more appropriated


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## pccvspw999

tojaniety said:


> So now everything russian is bad? Please, no politics. How about french trains? They don't sell weapons to many countries, right? Or american/german/israeli?


Sorry, but You are putting it into politics. I’ve only pointed out that using a picture of a broad gauge, german high-speed train, made for the russian state railway, has nothing to do with a international project on the american continent.
“Bad”? No, only inappropriate.


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## Stuu

pccvspw999 said:


> Sorry, but You are putting it into politics. I’ve only pointed out that using a picture of a broad gauge, german high-speed train, made for the russian state railway, has nothing to do with a international project on the american continent.
> “Bad”? No, only inappropriate.


No, a low paid journalist picked the first image he/she liked when searching for high speed train. That is all.


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## MichiganExpress

It doesn't matter. It's never going to happen.


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## hkskyline

* TransLink raises fares while Toronto and other cities across Canada freeze theirs *
Vancouver Sun _Excerpt_
Mar 24, 2022

Beginning July 1, it is going to cost more to ride transit in Metro Vancouver.

With little discussion at a TransLink board meeting on Thursday, the transit authority approved an average 2.3-per-cent fare hike, bucking a nationwide trend to combat low ridership by freezing fees after two years of the pandemic.

“It’s a bad idea because we are trying to get ridership to come back,” said transit advocate Nathan Davidowicz. “We would be discouraging ridership by raising the fares.”

More : TransLink raises fares while Toronto and other cities across Canada freeze theirs


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## elliot42

A concept map for expansion of the Vancouver metro (and no; I don't know the extent/location of existing projects, so this may be off from the start. regardless, make of it what you will):


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## Yellow Fever

__
http://instagr.am/p/Cb72RYCrQIb/


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## hkskyline

*TransLink's 10-year priorities include Burnaby Mountain gondola, zero-emission buses*
CTV _Excerpt_
Apr 20, 2022

TransLink and the Mayors' Council on Regional Transportation unveiled the first set of priorities for their Transport 2050 strategy Wednesday.

The proposed investments include doubling regional bus service levels and up to 170 kilometres of new rapid transit on up to 11 corridors.

The rapid transit would include up to nine zero-emission buses on traffic-separated lanes, The Burnaby Mountain Gondola to SFU, and a rapid transit connection to the North Shore.

"That means more routes in your communities, higher frequencies and better service, and service to new areas that previously did not have any transit service at all," said TransLink CEO, Kevin Quinn.

Other proposals include an extension of the not-yet-built Broadway Subway line from Arbutus to UBC, as well as potential SkyTrain extensions in Newton and Port Coquitlam.

The main focus however will be on bus rapid transit, which, according to TransLink, is roughly 25 times less expensive per kilometre than SkyTrain.

More : TransLink's 10-year priorities include Burnaby Mountain gondola, zero-emission buses


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## Yellow Fever

Broadway Subway Project traffic deck progress by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr
Tunnel Boring Machine components begin arriving on site by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr
Cutterhead delivery by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr
Main Drive by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, on Flickr


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## hkskyline

* People reliant on bus service from Squamish to Pemberton stuck in limbo as negotiations break down*
Vancouver Sun _Excerpt_
May 11, 2022

Transit users in the Sea to Sky region will remain without bus service after an all-day bargaining session on Wednesday failed to end a 14-week strike.

On Wednesday night, both sides of the fight — Pacific Western Transportation and Unifor Local 114 — blamed the other for the impasse.

More than 80 members of Unifor Local 114 have been on strike since Jan. 29, suspending B.C. Transit services in Squamish, Whistler and Pemberton.

More : People reliant on bus service from Squamish to Pemberton stuck in limbo as negotiations break down


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## hkskyline

* Thousands of Surrey SkyTrain passengers delayed by train derailment *
CBC _Excerpt_
May 31, 2022

SkyTrain service between Columbia and Scott Road stations has still not been restored after a train partially dislodged from the track Monday evening, triggering a shutdown that continues to affect commuters into the afternoon and evening rush hour.

Dozens of bus bridge shuttles are transporting frustrated SkyTrain passengers to and from Surrey across the Fraser River.

Lally Dol, a barber who works near Columbia Station, says he can see droves of passengers transferring between trains and buses. 

More : https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/surrey-skytrain-passengers-delayed-1.6473023


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