# Financial capital of Europe



## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

After Brexit, I assumed that Frankfurt or Paris would become the financial capital of Europe, but from what I read, Amsterdam has stolen all of the thunder. The data clearly supports Amsterdam wearing the crown presently, but which city do you think will be the financial capital in the long-term?


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Maybe no city will emerge as the clear financial capital and there will be 4-5 important centres? I would put Dublin in the mix too.


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

isaidso said:


> Maybe no city will emerge as the clear financial capital and there will be 4-5 important centres? I would put Dublin in the mix too.


That's a good point about Dublin.


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## Little Spoon (Apr 1, 2020)

London will remain the financial capital of Europe.


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## Park- en Rijntoren (Jan 3, 2021)

London will probably remain the most important financial city. When looking at the financial capital of the European Union I think Amsterdam has a good chance, but we have to wait and see what happens after corona is over and brexit is completed.


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## Little Spoon (Apr 1, 2020)

Park- en Rijntoren said:


> London will probably remain the most important financial city, when looking at the financial capital of the European Union i think Amsterdam has a good chance, but we have to wait and see what happens after corona is over and brexit is completed.


If talking about Europe, it will be London. If talking about the EU, it will be Frankfurt. Amsterdam needs to grow a lot before reaching that level.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

I agree that London will be difficult to unseat. What is more likely is a more parity between it and the other major European financial centres. There doesn't seem to be a clear leader in that group.


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)




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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)




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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)




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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

I think that Paris will ultimately emerge as the European financial capital. Foreign bankers would prefer to be there than in Frankfurt.


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## Little Spoon (Apr 1, 2020)

SydneyCarton said:


> I think that Paris will ultimately emerge as the European financial capital. Foreign bankers would prefer to be there than in Frankfurt.


Perhaps Paris might grow to be bigger than Frankfurt, but it won’t overtake London to be the European financial capital, even if there is some exodus to NY or Singapore etc.


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

Maybe New York may prove to be the financial capital of Europe.









A negative-sum game: Brexit has caused European finance to relocate to the US rather than across the continent


Martin Heneghan and Sarah Hall find that Brexit has triggered a negative-sum game for European finance as activity shifts to the more established centres across the globe, particularly in the Unite…




blogs.lse.ac.uk


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)




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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)




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## lezgotolondon (Aug 31, 2010)

London.


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## lezgotolondon (Aug 31, 2010)

SydneyCarton said:


> View attachment 1331598


They better change name if they want to enter the Italian market 🤣


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

lezgotolondon said:


> They better change name if they want to enter the Italian market 🤣


That might make the brand more popular with ladies and gay guys!


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

Brexit EU News: Deliveroo IPO, Jamie Dimon Threat Stokes Concern in London - Bloomberg


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## JimB (Apr 7, 2005)

Sydney - you seem to have a bit of a persistent hard-on for London losing status.

Anything we should know about you?


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## Little Spoon (Apr 1, 2020)

Have a read of that Syd, me ol’ mucker.









London Stock Exchange has best first quarter for IPOs since 2007


Despite the Deliveroo damp squib, the market raised more than £5bn in the first three months of 2021




www.theguardian.com


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## No1 (Nov 24, 2006)

SydneyCarton said:


> After Brexit, I assumed that Frankfurt or Paris would become the financial capital of Europe, but from what I read, Amsterdam has stolen all of the thunder. The data clearly supports Amsterdam wearing the crown presently, but which city do you think will be the financial capital in the long-term?


If we look at history it is Amsterdam without doubt. Brits, Americans and others all learn from first global capitalist company dutch East and West Indian company. Also first modern stock exachange is Amsterdam. Dutch are in good way founders of modern capitalist world. Even New York was first New Amsterdam and Harlem in NY is copy of Harlem in Holland near Amsterdam.

I think Amsterdam is in good position even now to be important financial center.


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

Within the EU it will be Frankfurt. It's the financial centre of Europe's largest economy and also has the European central bank. 

In all of Europe London may stay strong and compete with New York and the EU finical capital. They are still in a strong position due to their rather relaxed financial laws and traditions.


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)




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## Blackpool88 (Nov 15, 2007)

SydneyCarton said:


> View attachment 1359534


They're probably going to end up splitting the bank - one part focusing on HK/China and the other half Rest of World - they refused to denounce the actions of China in HK last year which was telling, they don't want to upset their paymasters.

I worked in Barclays for 3 years by the way - to get around Brexit they put a few hundred employees in Dublin and Paris that is literally the extent of the impact.

To put that in perspective, the same year, they off-shored about 4,000 roles to India.


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)




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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

According to this article, Dublin has been a big beneficiary.










City of London Brexit hit worse than expected, says study


Over 400 financial firms in Britain have shifted activities, staff and a combined trillion pounds ($1.4 trillion) in assets to hubs in the European Union due to Brexit, with more pain to come, a study from New Financial think tank said on Friday.




www.reuters.com


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## Blackpool88 (Nov 15, 2007)

Sydney - do you mind me asking, did something really bad once happen to you in The City of London?


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

I’m English!


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)




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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Losses from London to the EU are undeniable but it's too early to tell what the extent of it will be. It's still fluid and things are unfolding. Taking stock in 2025 or later will offer a better indication.

HSBC relocating top leadership from London to Hong Kong isn't a surprise. The whole company was based in Hong Kong a few decades ago and they've thrown their support firmly behind China. I wouldn't be surprised if they moved their HQ back there in a few years.


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

City of London Brexit hit worse than expected, says study


Over 400 financial firms in Britain have shifted activities, staff and a combined trillion pounds ($1.4 trillion) in assets to hubs in the European Union due to Brexit, with more pain to come, a study from New Financial think tank said on Friday.




www.reuters.com


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

Another European company going to NY for its IPO.


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

London’s post-Brexit losses exceed previous estimates


The tussle between Europe's financial centres rages on, with a new report claiming London’s outflows are steeper than first thought.




www.thebanker.com


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

Brexit sparks 1 trillion UK assets switch to EU - study


UK banks and insurers have shifted more than pound10 trillion to the European Union in response to Brexit a study foundMore than 440




www.bignewsnetwork.com


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

Irishcentral.com


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## Black Cat (Oct 12, 2002)

From a City of London financial services perspective, Brexit has no upside save to make London focus on services to other parts of the world rather than the EU. That said, London based financial services companies by having branches in the EU, much can be mitigated and in principal business can continue as usual. 

It may be better to have such branches of UK based financial services companies in Dublin or Amsterdam rather than Frankfurt or Paris where their respective national governments may seek to favour EU based financial services companies and perhaps to restrict British based financial services companies.


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)




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## Marsupalami (Jan 29, 2009)

Erm...this poll should really have Edinburgh in it !
"*Edinburgh* was ranked the 13th largest *financial centre* internationally and the 4th largest in *Europe* in 2020. "

This is where Life Insurance was created, and where 100's of Billions changes hands through major corporate players in that industry. Standard Life, RBS, Bank of Scotland, Scottish Widows, Aberdeen Asset Management etc 

Edinburgh Castle from Arthur&#x27;s Seat by Manuel Osdoba, on Flickr


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

But Edinburgh is in the U.K., and the U.K. is no longer in the E.U.


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/york-remains-winner-brexit-derivatives-100232667.html




LONDON, May 11 (Reuters) - New York remains the global winner after Brexit forced 2.3 trillion pounds ($3.25 trillion) of monthly trading in derivatives to leave the City of London by March, a report from consultants Deloitte and data company IHS Markit said on Tuesday.
Britain left the European Union's full legal orbit on Dec. 31 and the UK financial sector's access to the bloc is now limited.
Banks and other market participants in the EU are no longer allowed to use platforms in London to trade swaps, forcing them to switch to alternatives in the bloc or in the United States, which the EU has given permission to serve EU investors.


Initial figures in January showed that chunks of trading in interest rate swaps left London for trading platforms in the EU and United States and the report on Tuesday confirmed that the trend has become embedded.
"Overall, more trading went to U.S. venues than EU venues," the report said.
More worrying for the City, the report said the relocation in euro denominated swaps trading has gone beyond what is strictly required by the regulatory curbs as market participants try to trade all their swaps in one place.
($1 = 0.7078 pounds) (Reporting by Huw Jones, editing by Ed Osmond)


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

Bankers quit London as Brexit relocations to EU step up


Investment banks are shifting more rainmakers out of London to financial centres across the European Union, accelerating the pace of moves after the pandemic and uncertainty over Britain's access to the bloc slowed relocations.




www.reuters.com


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## Dreiländereck (Mar 30, 2016)

Why Dublin and not Zurich in the selection proposal?
I think that in Zurich more money will be managed, transferred via Banks and exchange from and in Europe than in Dublin. And similar for London, only because GB and Switzerland are not in the EU, that does not mean not to be not in Europe. Therefore silly vote in my view or at least the title of the thead, vote is fully non-sense.


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

Brexit rift pushes swaps market trading out of London | Financial Times


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

London's 'Golden Age' as Europe's financial capital is over, says NatWest chair


The City of London's 'Golden Age' as Europe's financial capital is over following Brexit, but it will remain a major and profitable centre, NatWest (NWG.L) bank chairman Howard Davies said on Tuesday.




www.reuters.com


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

“….Deutsche is not alone in relocating employees from London. HSBC plans to move as many as 1,000 traders and support staff to Paris, while Citigroup is moving 250 people from London, 150 of whom are going to Frankfurt. Consultancy EY estimates that London has lost 7,600 jobs and £1.3tn in assets since Brexit was announced.”


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

Deleted


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

From the 31st of May edition of The FT:


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

That's not a small amount of business. The initial knocks to the UK financial industry are substantial. They'll still have to see how large the ripple effects through their entire economy are. These, very likely, represent a permanent loss.


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

Macron rolls out red carpet to JPMorgan, global CEOs in post-Brexit push


President Emmanuel Macron will declare that Paris is back on the map of global finance on Tuesday when he inaugurates JPMorgan's new trading hub in the French capital which he hopes will attract more bankers leaving post-Brexit Britain.




www.reuters.com


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

Paris to have 3,000 more finance job by end of 2021 due to Brexit -minister


Paris will have 3,000 more jobs in finance by the end of 2021 due to Brexit, French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said on Tuesday.




www.reuters.com


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

London Edges Back Ahead of Amsterdam as Europe’s Trading Hub


London moved back ahead of Amsterdam as Europe’s largest share trading center in June, reclaiming the top spot for the first time this year after Brexit pushed much of the city’s volumes to the continent.




www.bloomberg.com


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1464844/brexit-news-finance-city-of-london-deal-eu-Mairead-McGuinness-Rishi-Sunak/amp


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

SydneyCarton said:


> Macron rolls out red carpet to JPMorgan, global CEOs in post-Brexit push
> 
> 
> President Emmanuel Macron will declare that Paris is back on the map of global finance on Tuesday when he inaugurates JPMorgan's new trading hub in the French capital which he hopes will attract more bankers leaving post-Brexit Britain.
> ...


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

Brexit: UK services are losing out to EU rivals – but Asia could be big winner


New data shows the recent damage to UK’s prized services sector – and potentially to Europe as a whole.




www.google.com


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

London prepares for a bigger global role after Brexit - Marketplace

The wrangling over Brexit rumbles on, with European Union and the United Kingdom still haggling over a range of trade issues involving things like sausages and shellfish. But when it comes to one of the U.K.’s most important export industries — financial services — the wrangling seems to be over, and t*he result doesn’t look great for the Brits.*
Services like banking, brokerage, foreign exchange, fund management, insurance and share dealing were excluded from the trade deal struck between London and Brussels just before Christmas last year. But Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s government had been hoping the U.K. would subsequently be given the same access to EU financial markets and EU-based clients as the U.S. and some other non-EU states enjoy, on the grounds that British and EU financial regulations are more or less the same. 
However, those hopes have been dashed. After months of negotiation, the EU has given every indication that it will not play ball and will not allow the U.K. to participate as freely in the bloc’s finance industry as before. 
That looks like quite a blow. In 2019, before Brexit, the EU accounted for 40% of British exports of financial services. The U.K. sold some $33 billion worth to the other 27 member states while buying only $6 billion worth from them, making for a British trade surplus in these services of $27 billion.


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)




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## CODEBARRE75011 (May 16, 2006)

Report: What do EU capital markets look like on the other side of Brexit? - New Financial


This report shows that post-Brexit capital markets in the EU will be significantly smaller and less developed relative to GDP than they are today – and that the UK’s current dominance of EU capital markets activity will be replaced by the dominance of France and Germany. The report also raises...



newfinancial.org










Brexit: Why the exodus to Paris has not (yet?) come to pass







m.marketscreener.com


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)




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## SypsiloN (Mar 20, 2013)

SydneyCarton said:


> Paris to have 3,000 more finance job by end of 2021 due to Brexit -minister
> 
> 
> Paris will have 3,000 more jobs in finance by the end of 2021 due to Brexit, French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said on Tuesday.
> ...


Typical French opportunism and chauvinsm. In their eternal quest for grandeur and status.

During the bankin crisis of 2007/2008 they had similar behaviour. In the panic and fog during the crisis the French Gov. let the French banks take over foreign banks and assets. Even though the french banks themselves needed a bail-out. While German, British and Dutch banks retreated, the French seized the opportunity.

The EU's Strasbourg parliament is another "fine" example of the ways in which Paris deals, how Sarkozy and Platini promised Qatar the WC and Qatar in it's turn to revive PSG from an eternal hibernation, the KLM - Air France saga another, etc.etc.



https://oxford.universitypressscholarship.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780199641987.001.0001/acprof-9780199641987-chapter-11


_BNP-Paribas asked that the second bailout tranche be brought forward. In the spring of 2009, the state became the largest shareholder in BNP, holding 17 percent of nonvoting shares. The day after the hastily advanced refinancing, BNP announced its takeover of sections of Fortis Bank (Hardie and Howarth, 2009: 1033; Massoc and Jabko, 2012: 28). Thus, the French government was actively providing financial assistance enabling BNP-Paribas to exploit the crisis in pursuit of aggressive external expansion as hard-hit German and British banks retreated. This state-sponsored international champion advancement made BNP-Paribas the largest bank in the eurozone (EIU, 2010: 13)._


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## CODEBARRE75011 (May 16, 2006)

^^
Pays-Bas : Netherlands


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

New York extends post-Brexit gains in euro swaps trading


New York has increased its market share in trading euro interest rate swaps at London's expense, data group OSTTRA said on Thursday, in the latest sign of how global financial markets are being permanently fragmented by Brexit.




www.reuters.com


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)




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## CODEBARRE75011 (May 16, 2006)

> *Compensation: LCH SA strengthens the role of Paris as the European capital of "repo"*
> 
> 
> The Parisian clearing house already occupies a predominant place on the European market for this essential mode of interbank financing. It is opening up more and more to foreign customers, thus contributing to the internationalization of the Paris market. And is developing a new solution to reach institutional investors.











Compensation : LCH SA renforce le rôle de Paris comme capitale européenne du « repo »


La chambre de compensation parisienne occupe déjà une place prédominante sur le marché européen de ce mode essentiel de financement interbancaire. Elle s'ouvre de plus en plus à des clients étrangers, participant ainsi à l'internationalisation de la place de Paris. Et développe une nouvelle...




www-lesechos-fr.cdn.ampproject.org


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

American bankers would prefer to live in Paris than in Frankfurt.


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## Little Spoon (Apr 1, 2020)

Why should the Germans care if American bankers prefer Paris? Most people prefer Paris to most cities.


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

Little Spoon said:


> Why should the Germans care if American bankers prefer Paris? Most people prefer Paris to most cities.


To the extent that U.S. banks, which dominate the world financial system, relocate their European HQs to the Continent, the lure of Paris will likely result in places like JPMC, Morgan Stanley, Goldman, etc. locating their HQs in Paris.


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## CODEBARRE75011 (May 16, 2006)

The European Securities and Markets Authority (ESMA) and the European Banking Authority (EBA) have their HQs in Paris.


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## Little Spoon (Apr 1, 2020)

SydneyCarton said:


> To the extent that U.S. banks, which dominate the world financial system, relocate their European HQs to the Continent, the lure of Paris will likely result in places like JPMC, Morgan Stanley, Goldman, etc. locating their HQs in Paris.


Could happen. I doubt it though.


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

So you think that they’ll go to Frankfurt?


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## Little Spoon (Apr 1, 2020)

SydneyCarton said:


> So you think that they’ll go to Frankfurt?


No. I don’t think there will be the exodus that you are hoping for. Some might leave for pastures new such as Frankfurt, Amsterdam or Paris, but the City of London and Canary Wharf won’t disappear from the financial markets top table any time soon. It will adapt. 

FYI - I think you should refresh your view of which banks dominate the financial markets. The world has changed a lot.


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

Little Spoon said:


> No. I don’t think there will be the exodus that you are hoping for. Some might leave for pastures new such as Frankfurt, Amsterdam or Paris, but the City of London and Canary Wharf won’t disappear from the financial markets top table any time soon. It will adapt.
> 
> FYI - I think you should refresh your view of which banks dominate the financial markets. The world has changed a lot.


The exodus has already happened. US banks that operate within the EU need to have their EU HQ within the EU.


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## Little Spoon (Apr 1, 2020)

I’ll be honest, this is a rather strange thing to be taking glee in. I must ask, why are you so interested in the downfall of London as a financial centre? I don’t think what you want to see happen will come to fruition. US banks will still have a significant operation in the City.


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

I don't celebrate London's downfall. Although my mom is French, I don't favor Paris over London. I'm just looking at the facts.


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## Little Spoon (Apr 1, 2020)

The facts are that London will/has seen a fall, but it’s position in Europe as the biggest financial centre isn’t under threat. It will remain the biggest money market for example. Plus it is more than just about links to EU markets, but also to other significant markets around the world too. W3 can’t also forget that because it will still be the biggest financial centre, many EU based institutions will need to set up a desk in London in order to access it, whereby they did not need to before. Consider the transition as moving from being _the_ dominant financial city in Europe to being the largest by a comfortable margin, with the more minor players growing in stature. Believe me, I think a Brexit is an absolute shitshow, but we have to recognise that while brexit has given the UK no benefits at all and is an absolute shambles placing unnecessary economic sanctions upon ourselves, the worst case scenario was far worse.


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## eomer (Nov 15, 2003)

Paris of course.


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

Little Spoon said:


> The facts are that London will/has seen a fall, but it’s position in Europe as the biggest financial centre isn’t under threat. It will remain the biggest money market for example. Plus it is more than just about links to EU markets, but also to other significant markets around the world too. W3 can’t also forget that because it will still be the biggest financial centre, many EU based institutions will need to set up a desk in London in order to access it, whereby they did not need to before. Consider the transition as moving from being _the_ dominant financial city in Europe to being the largest by a comfortable margin, with the more minor players growing in stature. Believe me, I think a Brexit is an absolute shitshow, but we have to recognise that while brexit has given the UK no benefits at all and is an absolute shambles placing unnecessary economic sanctions upon ourselves, the worst case scenario was far worse.


Not really. London was the financial center for the EU. It no longer is. Dutch companies will list in Amsterdam. French will list in Paris. Italian in Milan, etc. The only companies that will list and trade in London are English ones, and England doesn't have a very large economy. NY absolutely blows London out of the water in terms of IPOs and trading volumes. Also, American banks used to have their EU HQs in London. That has ended.

London's status as an international financial center has plunged.


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## Little Spoon (Apr 1, 2020)

SydneyCarton said:


> Not really. London was the financial center for the EU. It no longer is. Dutch companies will list in Amsterdam. French will list in Paris. Italian in Milan, etc. The only companies that will list and trade in London are English ones, and England doesn't have a very large economy. NY absolutely blows London out of the water in terms of IPOs and trading volumes. Also, American banks used to have their EU HQs in London. That has ended.
> 
> London's status as an international financial center has plunged.


I sense this is going to go around in circles with you.


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

Little Spoon said:


> I sense this is going to go around in circles with you.


I know. Your patriotism is clouding your ability to reason.


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

City of London Facing Brexit Blow After EU Says Clearing Access Will Lapse - BNN Bloomberg


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)




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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)




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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

Prior to Brexit, this IPO of an Italian company might have occurred in London. Now, NY gets them all.


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)




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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

“Iconic British car brand Lotus is eyeing up New York as its favoured location to go public…”


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)




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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

Brexit: more than 7,000 finance jobs have left London for EU, EY finds | Financial sector | The Guardian


Paris, Frankfurt and Dublin are most successful in luring roles from UK, say consultants




amp.theguardian.com


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

Atom Bank eyes New York IPO in major snub to London


UK digital lender Atom Bank is eyeing up a listing in New York in a major blow to London’s efforts to promote itself as a destination for tech IPOs




bmmagazine.co.uk


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## SydneyCarton (Jul 11, 2017)

London’s too small for Arm IPO, says Hermann Hauser | Computer Weekly


Hauser who helped spin out Arm from Acorn, joins campaign for dual London and New York listing, while the PM writes to SoftBank chief



www.computerweekly.com


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## CODEBARRE75011 (May 16, 2006)

The Global Financial Centres Index
Ranking End of March 2022



Z/Yen Institute


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## CODEBARRE75011 (May 16, 2006)

Paris snaps at heels of London in overseas finance investment ranks


France made up more ground on Britain in attracting overseas direct investment into financial services last year, according to research by accountancy firm EY published on Monday.




www.reuters.com













London Loses Crown of Biggest European Stock Market to Paris


London has lost another status symbol. It’s no longer home to Europe’s biggest stock market.




www.bloomberg.com


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## hseugut (May 24, 2011)

CODEBARRE75011 said:


> Paris snaps at heels of London in overseas finance investment ranks
> 
> 
> France made up more ground on Britain in attracting overseas direct investment into financial services last year, according to research by accountancy firm EY published on Monday.
> ...


Oops ... if not Brexit, French merit.


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## Little Spoon (Apr 1, 2020)

Little Spoon said:


> London will remain the financial capital of Europe.


 Well, this aged well!


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