# AUSTRIA | Railways



## Bahnsteig4

Trainman Dave said:


> I am a little puzzled, I think that the line to Hungary is missing. I am fairly sure that it goes straight towards the southeast on the south side of the Danube.



You are right, of course. I just forgot to paint it. :bash:


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## Trainman Dave

Thankyou for the usefull maps kay:


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## Küsel

Great project! :applause:


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## skytrax

wow, what a crazy station!


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## Bahnsteig4




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## Grotlaufen

When do they start tearing down the Südbahnhof? After the football cup 2008? 


Anyways, as bad as Südbahnhof is today, every new construction replacing this mess can only be something genuine good. A renovation would only have been a waste of money, given its freak location to the U-Bahn net and the long distance one has to traverse to get from one to the other end of the station.


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## Bahnsteig4

It's been a while, but here come some more pix:



















Local Public Traffic:










http://www.hauptbahnhof-wien.at/de/index.jsp


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## rheintram

Construction is already taking place, mostly in the underground. Vienna's new Central Station (right now there is no such thing, but the most important station is Westbahnhof) will also include what is right now Südtirolerplatz subway, tramway and s-bahn station. This part is under heavy reconstruction at the moment and the s-bahn part is almost finished already.

this map shows how urban and commuter transport will be connected to the Central Station:








Blue Lines = S-Bahn
Red Line = existing U1 subway
Purple Line = planned U2 extension
Black, Lime, Teal = tramway. Note that Teal (Line 18) is a premetro line
Green, Orange = buslines


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## Justme

I think it looks pretty good, but I am still amazed that Vienna, such an important city, has never had a central Station. It must be the only major city in the developed world which hasn't (even most American cities have or _had_ a monumental central station.


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## thun

According to my definition of "Central Station" (being one station where most trains go to/through) other cities didn't/don't have one, London and Paris being the most famous ones. Until a few years, Berlin hadn't a central station either. So it's not that unique


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## Kevlargeist

About time! It's sure has been long time since Vienna had a good-looking railway station.


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## neorion

Wonderful project. When I was in Vienna I found that the only missing grand and attractive infrastructure was the railway station (surprisingly). This is set to change coz the new station looks great!! kay:


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## EPA001

It certainly is a nice looking Central Station. And it is a huge improvement compared to the current stations. If the development around the station gets off the ground also, this can be a nice new district for Vienna!


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## flierfy

thun said:


> According to my definition of "Central Station" (being one station where most trains go to/through) other cities didn't/don't have one, London and Paris being the most famous ones. Until a few years, Berlin hadn't a central station either. So it's not that unique


It's rather a main station than a central station. There are other rail stations in Wien that are far closer to the city centre.


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## Paulo2004

Quite ordinary. Nothing special.


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## Slartibartfas

^^ We don't want a new world wonder, we want an efficiently working and nice looking new main railway station. If you know the status quo, it will be a large step forward. 

I guess Vienna has already enough sights, I can live with people not coming to Vienna just to see the main railway station.


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## Slartibartfas

neorion said:


> Wonderful project. When I was in Vienna I found that the only missing grand and attractive infrastructure was the railway station (surprisingly). This is set to change coz the new station looks great!! kay:


Well, the major railwaystations were all bombed to dust during the war, or those that survived somewhat the bombardments where torn down by wise men. hno: The Franz Josephs railwaystation could still exist for example, but they preferred to tear it down and build a new extremely ugly station on a slightly moved location, which has btw torn down again in the last years and the once again new station opened just this year.


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## Justme

Did Vienna then have a major station in the past? What did it look like?


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## Shezan

amazing project :applause:


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## Anekdote

Justme said:


> Did Vienna then have a major station in the past? What did it look like?


I think Vienna had one or more (not sure) major railway stations which were destroyed during the WW2.


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## webeagle12

wow after reading part 7 I can say one thing: what a pain in the a** to get in north Korea :bash:

but absolutely love the report


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## Rebasepoiss

Timon91 said:


> Great trip! *I'm actually surprised to see the Russian railways so developed and electrified *
> And part 4 and part 5 are the same :dunno:


The Trans-Siberian railway is exceptionally well maintained since it's one of the most important railway lines in Russia. Railways in general are in a pretty bad shape.


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## Timon91

^^I see, I heard about railways being in a bad shape in Russia, so that's why I was surprised


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## Axort

^^ Hmm, I surprised what do you call a bad shape? All major lines in Russia are mostly electrified and maintained not worse then the Trans-Siberian line.


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## DJZG

i've just spent 4 hours watching this travelogue with GE turned on and some time wikipedia too 
damn this trip is awesome and definitely would love to travel there... maybe situation will improve in DPRK in few years... 

and at the end of part 7 there is PS for those who are planning this to repeat:



> DISCLAIMER
> Alltough we succesfully entered North Korea via Tumangan, we were later via e-mail told by our travel agency, that our trip caused serious troubles at KITC (the governmental "Korean International Tourist Company") and that they have enforced new regulations to avoid any not agreed (with KITC) entry via Tumangan in future.
> I can therefore - untill KITC officially accepts this border point for tourists - not recommend to repeat what we did, as trying to do so might end up with another result...


so i'm considering to wait for some better times for travel


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## Gag Halfrunt

The last two parts are up:

Part 8a: Kilchu - Pyongyang (1/2)

Part 8b: Kilchu - Pyongyang (2/2)


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## DJZG

yep.... currently reading and not working :lol:


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## Timon91

It's quite funny (and sad) to see that all railway stations almost look the same and that all have a big poster of a laughing Kim Jong Il.


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## DJZG

^^ Kim Il Sung is on the pictures  his beloved father  

Kim Jong Il is just maintaining his Juche ideology with a little bit help from Songun policy... 

this last part was absolutely stunning for me... few years back i googled everything i could find about DPRK cause it was so mysterious to me... 
when i was reading i was surprised they are going to that border crossing cause tourists aren't allowed there... and in his story he does say how soldiers were stunned to see anyone else but those local people... i can imagine they haven't seen no one else in their life... very strange feeling i think... 

in one part he says, they travel 280kms for 10 hours... a trip of some 600kms lasts whole day... that must be an remarkable experience... 

in a land with massive fuel shortage, with floods every year and millions dying of famine, i can only hope that people will survive to see better days...


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## Xusein

Wow, what a great journey. Don't know what to say except that I am in awe.


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## Verso

Awesome journey. I'm surprised at the low feedback on that forum.


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## DJZG

hmm i was thinking that too... but topic is located in international section and as i see most of users are from USA... so could be very little people saw it... 


btw... i found information about a trip to DPRK 

http://www.korea-dpr.com/kfa2007/regist-RT0209.htm

it's a little bit pro-korean... so i assume it's not for everyone... but they are offering much much more than standard tourist agencies...


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## WalkTheWorld

More! More!


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## Timon91

^^Yes, it's such an interesting country, I read most travel reports I can find on the internet to get a good idea of the country. But that's almost impossible.


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## vlker

I really enjoyed their reports. Me and my friends are for some time planning to go to Vladivostok by train. But North Korea? I wouldnt even think about it. These men are my heroeskay:
My brother was this summer in demilitarized zone in South Korea and told me, that not a single tourist would be able to just reach the border


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## DJZG

^^ well DMZ is called that way cause it's a belt of no-man's land... from that side you can't possible get near NKorea border... there was an incident few months earlier when one woman got close to the fence and KPA shot her... there are news reports somewhere on internet...

i've read somewhere that they tested the old rail between two Koreas... and now seem rail is operating but only for cargo transport to Kaesong Industrial Park... according to Wikipedia, transport is very very low, 150 out of 163 return trips that had been done so far, the train carried no cargo at all...
i'm sure when all that regime ends, Korea will be connected by rail and highway as well...

regular tourist borders are at PyongYang airport and Chinese-Korean railway bridge called Friendship... 
i think i would also travel there for sure... but i'm just too curious to stay only on designated routes... lol... they probably would end up searching me through PY somewhere 

@vlker... man, if you're going to VV, then it's a shame not to go to Korea  i would choose somewhat different solution... train from Moscow to Beijing and from there train to PY...


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## urbanfan89

That's not entirely true. As a tourist you can visit Panmunjon from both the north and south side. There were tourist resorts in the north accessible from the south, but then Kim Jong Il decided to close it some time ago.


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## vlker

DJZG said:


> @vlker... man, if you're going to VV, then it's a shame not to go to Korea  i would choose somewhat different solution... train from Moscow to Beijing and from there train to PY...


You know...that´s just plans, next summer we decided to go to Pripyat - Ukraine and maybe Belarus. Vladivostok must wait


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## DJZG

vlker said:


> You know...that´s just plans, next summer we decided to go to Pripyat - Ukraine and maybe Belarus. Vladivostok must wait


wow... i wanna go to Pripyat too mg: but my friends don't even wanna hear about that option... 
if you plan something out, call me... i definitely would love to see it...


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## Verso

Pripyat? Are you crazy?


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## timnet

@ABC_LV maybe the sky is blue cause not many cars are there


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## rheintram

Here's a thread about ÖBB (Österreichische Bundesbahnen) / Austrian Federal Railways. I found some nice pictures on Flickr that might be interesting for you. Hopefully someone will be able to contribute more! 









ÖBB EuroCity Train to Vienna Westbahnhof in Braz.









ÖBB EuroCity _Transalpin_ from Zürich to Vienna, again in Braz.









ÖBB ICE-T crossing a bridge on the Arlbergbahn









two Taurus Locos meet on the river Inn bridge in Innsbruck









Austria's new homegrown highspeed train railjet


















ÖBB 4024 on Brennerbahn


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## stefanguti

ÖBB 1116 033-0, ÖBB-EC 163 Transalpin, Flaurling, Tyrol











Taurus locomotive





























Southbound trains (from Vienna)


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## Kuvvaci

wonderful photos...

Taurus loco is so beautiful.

What is the top speed of Railjet?


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## x-type

Kuvvaci said:


> wonderful photos...
> 
> Taurus loco is so beautiful.
> 
> What is the top speed of Railjet?


it has reached 275 km/h n testing.commercial speed will be 200 km/h, and with time it should be raised to 230


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## RawLee

x-type said:


> it has reached 275 km/h n testing.commercial speed will be 200 km/h, and with time it should be raised to 230


Sadly,on our side,it only goes with 160...


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## stefanguti

RawLee said:


> Sadly,on our side,it only goes with 160...


Maybe the speed will be increased in Hungary as well when the track system is adapted.


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## RawLee

stefanguti said:


> Maybe the speed will be increased in Hungary as well when the track system is adapted.


That is the most modern section in the country. It wont be redone in the next decades.


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## stefanguti

So why only 160?


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## RawLee

stefanguti said:


> So why only 160?


Money. The track itself maybe good for it,but the security systems are not,most of our trains dont have ETCS. I know the track can endure it,the new 3rd generation IC's were tested on them at 180. But back to Austria. When will the service be extended to München?


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## rheintram

It already goes to Munich! The trains travel from Budapest to Munich. From december 2009 they will also reach Zurich and Bregenz.


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## stefanguti

In what time?


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## Kuvvaci

do you hve more pictures of Railjet?

I' like to see also the bahnhofs.


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## RawLee

Kuvvaci said:


> do you hve more pictures of Railjet?


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=29753556&postcount=873
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=28380052&postcount=821

EDIT:some more:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=267020&nseq=0
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=266564&nseq=1
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=266225&nseq=2
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=265945&nseq=3
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=261618&nseq=4


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## Kuvvaci

as if it is a locomotive more than whole EMU train set unlike all other High Speed Trains. Am I wrong?


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## stefanguti

Love the railway station in Budapest!


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## E.L. SLOVENIA

I made many photos of OBB in 2007 winter and summer; Bad Gastein, Tauerntunnel and Bad Hofgestein :cheers: :










Bad Gastein, winter:










Station:














































Most important railway for SŽ to Germany :










Very long train:



















Tauerntunnel, Bockstein:



















New entrance in Tauerntunnel:










Car Train:



















In Tauerntunnel:





































Station Bockstein:














































Bad Hofgastein:










Station Angertal:










New bridge:



















Curves toward Salzburgu:


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## RawLee

Kuvvaci said:


> as if it is a locomotive more than whole EMU train set unlike all other High Speed Trains. Am I wrong?


It is "just" a modified Taurus. Its technical parameters are very interesting. The hungarian driver said it can stop in 600m from 160km/h!(I dont know if he only talked about the locomotive,or the entire consist). And it can accelarate to 250 in 82s!


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## stefanguti

:applause: Great pictures

250 km/h in 82 s > good performance!


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## x-type

RawLee said:


> It is "just" a modified Taurus. Its technical parameters are very interesting. The hungarian driver said it can stop in 600m from 160km/h!(I dont know if he only talked about the locomotive,or the entire consist). And it can accelarate to 250 in 82s!


it is actually push-pull train powered by Taurus.
does it allready operate to Budapest?


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## RawLee

x-type said:


> it is actually push-pull train powered by Taurus.
> does it allready operate to Budapest?


Since December.


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## (HUN)RoGeR

ÖBB sold 19 locomotives and 50 freight cars to MÁV Cargo.

10 Taurus (1x16)
6 Hercules (2016)
3 Hector (2070)


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## Kuvvaci

are Taurus locos made by Siemens?


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## rheintram

Well partly, the engineering, most parts and sales are done by Siemens. The assembling happens in Linz, at an ÖBB subsidiary (Technische Services). the plant itself is called "Taurus Center Linz" http://www.ts.oebb.at/de/Produkte_und_Services/Assembling/index.jsp


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## rheintram

Turkey-Taurus pulling a cargo train









A1 Taurus pulling a EuroCity train









S-Bahn Steiermark Talent

















World record Taurus - The fastest locomotive in the world!









Regional double deck train, nicknamed "Weasle"









City Airport Train









S 45, Vienna S-Bahn, Vorortelinie









ÖBB 4020 right next to its modern hungarian brother MAV talent


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## Rebasepoiss

Acceleration of Taurus 1116 from 0-120km/h. Pretty fast!:


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## LtBk

I wish the US had cool trains like the ones OBB use.


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## webeagle12

I love Bombardier “Talent” train, such a beauty.


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## stefanguti

Rebasepoiss said:


> Acceleration of Taurus 1116 from 0-120km/h. Pretty fast!:


Wow! Impressive!


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## Bahnsteig4

^^ Absolutely. You can hear the engine driver's pride when he says "120".


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## AmiDelf

Very good! All stations looks the same... Really nice of you giving us such read and pictures. Thank you very much!


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## Anekdote

rheintram said:


> S-Bahn Steiermark Talent


Wow, the blue Talent looks much more better than the red ones. The red talent trains look like coke cans. hno:


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## nachalnik

I've just finished writing the next part of the travelogue. It's about the "International Friendship Exhibition", the "Arirang" performance and so on. 

Please check http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/2008/09/arirang-games-and-more.html











I hope you like it, alltough it's not really rail-related.


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## AmiDelf

I like that you managed to keep the images. You did a very good job. 

The trams in north korea seems to be very clean? i mean, they are old but very clean..


















Seems that someone is really taking care of the trams. 









World should do something about this. I hope that things will be brighter etc for everyone. I wish that these pictures got much more publicity. 

Very good job! Kudos to you!


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## rheintram

Taurus + Dosto









Desiro









Vienna Westbahnhof









Railjet









Talent


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## rheintram

This video is a must-see! The world locomotive highspeed record (357 km/h) by an ÖBB Taurus 1216. It was done in Germany because unfortunately there is no place in Austria which allows speeds like that:
http://bahnorama.tv/ondemand/play.php/vid,357,TAURUS_Die_Weltrekordlok

and here a preparation run with 330 km/h
http://bahnorama.tv/ondemand/play.php/vid,356,Hochtastfahrt_der_Weltrekord_Taurus-Lok


some more cool stuff:
http://bahnorama.tv/news/index.php/news,177,ÖBB railjet
production and test runs with railjet

http://bahnorama.tv/news/index.php/news,56,BAHNORAMA_DVD_Lokporträt_ÖBB_Rh_4011_Trailer
our ICE-T trains


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## stefanguti

Excellent!


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## Timon91

Yeah, really cool video's, especially the first one


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## snowman159

While waiting at the station Stein/Mautern I caught a glimpse of this freight train on a non-electrified line:


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## rheintram

Nice pics snowman159! The loco type you photographed is called "Hercules".


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## TedStriker

By the way Grag, nice photos. 

D you have any showing intermodal trains in Austria - specifically ones that hauling swap bodies and non-accompanied piggyback trailers?


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## thun

If I'm correct, there's already a thread about Austrian railways here, and I'm pretty sure that I saw such pics in it!


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## Slartibartfas

^^ Indeed, that thread is here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=786208

Maybe someone could fuse them?


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## TedStriker

If anyone has any photos of intermodal trains and terminals in Austria, especially those carrying/handling Continental traffic (swap bodies and semi-trailers), please post them up.


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## nachalnik

Qwert said:


> Short section of this line between station Petržalka and Austrian border is going to be double-tracked. The project has already approvals, I'm surprised there's nothing going on in Austria. Will second track end at the border:nuts:?


Double-tracking this line has no priority in Austria, as it still has much free capacity. 

Capacity is limited between Bruck/Leitha and Vienna (double track line, with much additional local traffic + trains to/from Hungary), so running much more trains between Parndorf and Petrzalka would not improve the situation between Vienna and Bruck/Leitha...




> Both lines (via Marchegg and Kittsee) are part of TEN-T 17 Paris - Bratislava. Slovakia will get quite some money from eurofunds between 2007 and 2013 for connection of TEN-T 17 and TEN-T 23. Entire Bratislava hub will be rebuilt. Scale of the changes will be similar if not bigger than changes after construction of new Hauptbahnhof in Vienna. I've expected these changes won't stop at the border.



I know of this plans, and I know that Slovakia prefers the Kittsee-route even for long distance Intercity-trains, alltough it is longer than via Marchegg.

However, as far as I understood those plans with a new tunnel line from Petrzalka across downton Bratislava, no real central station is planned in Bratislava, instead of that two stations (one for the axis Vienna - Kittsee - Petrzalka - Trnava - Zilina - Kosice and one for the axis Praha - Breclav - Kuty - DNV - Nove Zamky - Budapest) are planned. 
Is that true? How should passengers between those axis make transfers? Without a real central station I don't see the big advantage of that plan.
For InterCity-trains like Vienna - Kosice the route via Stadlau - Marchegg - DNV - Bratislava hl. st. is perfect, for local trains from Vienna via Kittsee the terminal at Petrzalka is also not too bad and for freight trains the existing line from Petrzalka across Bratislava is fast enough...


Nachalnik


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## Qwert

nachalnik said:


> Double-tracking this line has no priority in Austria, as it still has much free capacity.
> 
> Capacity is limited between Bruck/Leitha and Vienna (double track line, with much additional local traffic + trains to/from Hungary), so running much more trains between Parndorf and Petrzalka would not improve the situation between Vienna and Bruck/Leitha...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know of this plans, and I know that Slovakia prefers the Kittsee-route even for long distance Intercity-trains, alltough it is longer than via Marchegg.
> 
> However, as far as I understood those plans with a new tunnel line from Petrzalka across downton Bratislava, no real central station is planned in Bratislava, instead of that two stations (one for the axis Vienna - Kittsee - Petrzalka - Trnava - Zilina - Kosice and one for the axis Praha - Breclav - Kuty - DNV - Nove Zamky - Budapest) are planned.
> Is that true? How should passengers between those axis make transfers? Without a real central station I don't see the big advantage of that plan.
> For InterCity-trains like Vienna - Kosice the route via Stadlau - Marchegg - DNV - Bratislava hl. st. is perfect, for local trains from Vienna via Kittsee the terminal at Petrzalka is also not too bad and for freight trains the existing line from Petrzalka across Bratislava is fast enough...
> 
> 
> Nachalnik


IC trains from Žilina vie Kittsee to Vienna will be the only possibility if there won't be proper line via Marchegg.

Bratislava Hlavná stanica will remain main station for majority of EN, EC, IC and Ex trains from Prague, Břeclav, Budapest, Košice, Žilina and Banská Bystrica. Question is what will be with Vienna. IMO line via Marchegg and thus also via Hlavná stanica would be better for elite trains. Line under Bratislava downtown and via Kittsee would be better for local trains and something like S-Bahn.

Bratislava Hlavná stanica is overcrowded and there's no possibility to add new platforms (just check it in Google Maps. It will remain station for elite trains and some fast trains because it's the only station where all important corridors cross, others will use mostly new line under the downtown. This is why I think line via Marchegg and Stadlau should be electrified and double-tracked ASAP.


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## nachalnik

Qwert said:


> IC trains from Žilina vie Kittsee to Vienna will be the only possibility if there won't be proper line via Marchegg.


Well, once Gänserndorf - Marchegg - DNV is electrified, IC-trains can run via this line, it takes maybe 5-10 longer than via the direct line Stadlau - Marchegg, but is still much faster than via Kittsee.

The main advantage of electric traction is that a change of the engine can be avoided. Through trains Munich - Wien Hbf - Bratislava hl. st. - Kosice would be theoretically possible.

However, upgrading the Stadlau-Marchegg-line must be the next logical step.





> Bratislava Hlavná stanica will remain main station for majority of EN, EC, IC and Ex trains from Prague, Břeclav, Budapest, Košice, Žilina and Banská Bystrica. Question is what will be with Vienna. IMO line via Marchegg and thus also via Hlavná stanica would be better for elite trains.



I'm with you.



> Line under Bratislava downtown and via Kittsee would be better for local trains and something like S-Bahn.


It would be also interesting to rebuild the line Wolfsthal - Petrzalka. 



> Bratislava Hlavná stanica is overcrowded



It would have much capacity, if it was used as a through-station with only few trains, which start/end there. 
For through trains a stop of 3 minutes would be enough. Bratislava hl. st. has 9 platform tracks + 2 tracks for transit-trains (freight-trains). That is enough, Vienna main station will have 10 platform tracks.


With an half-hourly system of local trains around Bratislava, I'm thinking of that routes:

Wien - Marchegg - Bratislava hl. st. - Trnava: every 30 minutes
(as regional express train till Bratislava, continuing as stopping train)

Breclav - Bratislava hl. st. - Nove Zamky: every 30 minutes
(stopping train)

Wien - Bratislava hl. st. - Zilina - Kosice: every 60 minutes
(Intercity train)

Praha/Ostrava - Bratislava hl. st. - Budapest: every 60/120 minutes
(Intercity train)

Bratislava hl st - Dunajska Streda: every 30 minutes
(stopping train)


Thats 8 trains per hour per direction. Through trains west-east (to Trnava, Kosice, Nove Zamky, Budapest) use platform 1,2,3 (counted from the main buliding, I don't know the real numbers). Three platform tracks for 8 trains per hour mean 2,67 trains per platform per hour. That must be possible.
East-west-trains use platforms 4,5,6.

Platforms 7,8 and 9 can be used for additional ending/beginning trains during peak-times.

For comparison:
Vienna main station will have ~16 trains per hour per direction, these are the eastbound trains (m ost of them come from somewhere else, some also will start at Vienna main station):

up to 4 long-distance-trains (to Breclav and beyond, to Bratislava and beyond, to the airport, to Budapest)
4 S-Bahn trains to Stadlau and beyond 
2 S-Bahn trains to the airport
2 S-Bahn trains to Bruck/Leitha
1 REX train to Bratislava hl. st. 
1 REX train to Bratislava Petrzalka
1 REX train to Györ
1 REX train to Fertöszentmiklos/Eisenstadt



Nachalnik


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## nachalnik

Lainzer Tunnel in Vienna under construction (november 2009):


















This tunnel will provide the direct connection from the Westbahn to Wien-Meidling (and from there to the nwe Wien Hauptbahnhof).


Koralmbahn Graz - Klagenfurt under construction (april 2009):

Hengsbergtunnel between Werndorf and Wettmannstätten:



























Near the eastern end of the 34-km-long Koralmtunnel:










Some photos from another website (http://www.styria-mobile.at/home/oebb/Bauberichte):


Near Werndorf:









Near Wettmannstätten:









Near Koralmtunnel (eastern end)










The Koralmbahn will provide a direct route between Graz (2nd largest town in Austria) and Klagenfurt, total length is 126 km. Travel time will be ~50-55 minutes (dependinmg on intermediate stops) instead of now 2h45 (via Leoben).
Also the travel time from Vienna to Klagenfurt and beyond (Venice etc) will be shortened by 30 minutes. This trains will in future run via Graz instead of via Leoben.
The Koralmbahn is due to open in 2020, total costs are at around 5 billion EUR (2009 prices).


Nachalnik


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## Qwert

nachalnik said:


> Well, once Gänserndorf - Marchegg - DNV is electrified, IC-trains can run via this line, it takes maybe 5-10 longer than via the direct line Stadlau - Marchegg, but is still much faster than via Kittsee.
> 
> The main advantage of electric traction is that a change of the engine can be avoided. Through trains Munich - Wien Hbf - Bratislava hl. st. - Kosice would be theoretically possible.
> 
> However, upgrading the Stadlau-Marchegg-line must be the next logical step.


Considering small distance between Bratislava and Vienna that detour is quite big, but, you're right, it's still shorter than line via Kittsee.



nachalnik said:


> I'm with you.


:cheers:



nachalnik said:


> It would be also interesting to rebuild the line Wolfsthal - Petrzalka.


That would be great. It would be not only decent regional line, but also direct connection of Bratislava and Vienna airports. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be enough will on both sides to rebuilt it:dunno:.



nachalnik said:


> It would have much capacity, if it was used as a through-station with only few trains, which start/end there.
> For through trains a stop of 3 minutes would be enough. Bratislava hl. st. has 9 platform tracks + 2 tracks for transit-trains (freight-trains). That is enough, Vienna main station will have 10 platform tracks.


Now overwhelming majority of trains start/stop at the hlavná stanica and it's gonna stay like that. You know, some IC or R (fast train) from Žilina or Košice with ten carriages would be way too big to continue to Vienna, there isn't demand for such huge trains between BA and W. There are also another reasons why it's not good idea. After 445 km and almost 5-6 hours long journey those trains require some maintenance and cleaning. Well, it can be done also in Vienna, but our railway companies would have difficulties with finding reasonable agreement in this. There can also appear delays which would destroy train frequency between BA and W. Of course, there should be some ICs Vienna - Košice, but not all trains Košice - Bratislava could be extended to Vienna. I would rather suggest extension of _Ex Hron_ from Banská Bystrica to Vienna and maybe also some fast train Vienna - Nitra.

Bratislava hl. st. will remain terminal station for majority of trains from Žilina (Košice), but, it's possible to create through regional trains Vienna - Trnava and Břeclav/Kúty - Nové Zámky, however majority of regional trains will be rerouted to station Bratislava filiálka (in the tunnel) and Petržalka anyway. Long distance trains Prague - Bratislava - Budapest and vice versa just pass the station also now, but there are also trains Bratislava - Prague and all of them start/stop at the hl. st. There is also plenty of other trains to/from all Slovak regions which start/stop at hl. st. Many of them can be rerouted to the tunnel and station Petržalka, but for now hl. st. is the only option.

BTW, another problem of Bratislava hl. st is some platforms aren't long enough and there's no space to enlarge them.



nachalnik said:


> With an half-hourly system of local trains around Bratislava, I'm thinking of that routes...


This is way too optimist. There's already 30 minute frequency between Bratislava and Trnava, however, frequency between Bratislava and Vienna should be lower if we don't want empty trains there.
Břeclav - Bratislava hl. st. - Nové Zámky 30 minutes sounds good, but only in peak hours, otherwise the trains would be quite empty for the rest of the day.
IC Vienna - Košice every hour is also too many, there isn't so many ICs even between Bratislava and Košice. There is fast train every two hours, in peak time every hour and some ICs between them.
Bratislava hl. st. - Dunajská Streda every 30 minutes would be also too much outside peak hours.


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## nachalnik

Regarding 30 minutes frequency, I wanted to create a PESSIMISTIC scenario regarding track capacity in Bratislava hl. st. 

OK, fast trains to Kosice might start/end at Bratislava, but there is no reason against through-local trains from say Breclav/Kuty to say Nove Zamky. If most local trains only stop at Bratislava hl. st. for a few minutes, then the station has enough capacity.


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## nachalnik

Regarding Wien - Bratislava via Gänserndorf, I've calculated the travel times from Wien Hbf to Bratislava hl st (no intermedita stops, 1x16 with 7 waggons, technical travel time) for comparison:

- via direct line Stadlau - Marchegg:
with current speed limits: ~42 min (with diesel traction (2016): ~43 min)
with 160 km/h upgrade Stadlau - Marchegg border: ~37min


- via Stadlau - Gänserndorf - Marchegg:
with current speed limits: ~51min
with 120 km/h upgrade Gänserndorf - Marchegg border (will be done with electrification): ~48min
with 160 km/h upgrade Süssenbrunn - Gänserndorf: ~46min

So, with the electrification of Gänserndorf - Marchegg IC-trains can be routed via Gänserndorf, travel time would be 5 minutes more than via current Stadlau - Marchegg line.
In the long term, only Stadlau - Marchegg can be a solution.


However, it also necessary to improve speeds on the Slovakian part. Especially the 1,4 km long 30 km/h section just before Bratislava hl. st. costs much time.
The alignment should allow ~120 km/h untill the end of the tunnel (km 53,6), and from there to the platforms the turnouts should designed for ~60 km/h.
With improvements like this on the Slovakian side, the travel time can be reduced by further 5 minutes.

Total travel time via direct line would then be ~32 minutes + 10% buffer = ~35 minutes.
200 km/h (instead of 160 km/h) between Stadlau and Marchegg would save 2 more minutes, but I doubt whether it's worth the additional costs (other signalisation, all level crossings have to be removed, other type of catenary...).


Nachalnik


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## Qwert

The only advantage of the electrification of Gänserndorf - Marchegg border is that in case of some long distance train (...- Bratislava - Vienna) it's not necessary to change loco (well, it wouldn't be necessary if there was some electric three system loco which can operate in both Austria and Slovakia, for now there isn't such loco) what can save about 10 minutes, but since it's 5 minutes longer it will save only 5 minutes.

Slovakia is going to modernise just short section between Devínska Nová Ves and Austrian border (electrification, second track and increased speed). That 30 km/h section before hl. st. probably won't be upgraded soon. It's in tunnel and there's not enough funds for it. I guess for the same amount of money we can upgrade entire section between the tunnel and Devínska Nová Ves to 140/160 km/h.

200 km/h between Stadlau and Marchegg is IMO logic. It's basically straight so no land purchases are necessary. I don't know about Austria, but in Slovakia there's no difference between signalisation for 160 km/h and 200 km/h lines and level crossing aren't allowed on majority of 160 km/h lines. It's because line Bratislava - Košice is being modernised to 160+30% and it's supposed to allow tilting units to operate at 200 km/h. Some direct train Košice - Vienna almost without any interruption at 200 km/h would be great.


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## Slartibartfas

The connection to Bratislava is a sole disgrace for Austria. This is one if not the longest damn straight pieces of track in Austria and to top it it connects the largest city of of Austria with the half million city Bratislava. It hardly could cost a fortune to bring this pathetic track up to date, full electrification would the the very least one could expect. I guess its also rather shortsighted to not turn it fully into a double track. 

I really don't get it, they are burning millions in the Koralmtunnel which hardly anyone conceives to be a sensible investment but for a connection like Vienna-Marchegg-Bratislava, where relative little investments would greatly improve the infrastructure, they can't afford more than some half hearted actions at best...


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## LtBk

Why the Austrian government didn't modernize the Vienna-Bratislava line?


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## Slartibartfas

The demolition of the old Südbahnhof has started now. The Meidling station is going to temporarily replace it for the next 3 years or so to a large extend. The rest of the trains will arrive on a temporary railwaystation south of the old Südbahnhof, just outside the construction site. 

New models show the larger main station area and how it is planned to look like when finished:


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## 3dinge

Wow....great photos!!


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## nachalnik

LtBk said:


> Why the Austrian government didn't modernize the Vienna-Bratislava line?



...good question....


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## hans280

Slartibartfas said:


> I really don't get it, they are burning millions in the Koralmtunnel which hardly anyone conceives to be a sensible investment but for a connection like Vienna-Marchegg-Bratislava, where relative little investments would greatly improve the infrastructure, they can't afford more than some half hearted actions at best...


That's politics for you, Slartibartfas. (BTW, are you named after the literary character or the band? ) There is one towering figure in recent Austrian history who made the Koralmbahn his priority. That person was Joerg Haider, rightwing populist and former governor in Carinthia. His provincial capital, Klagenfurt, is a major beneficiary of the new tunnel and he went out on a limb to make sure that it would get the tunnel. (He even threatened to complain legally in case OBB set back the date of construction starts.) It couldn't be clearer that with the Westbahn out of Vienna and the preparations for the new Brenner connection, the government's ultra-rightwing nemesis demanded "ein Stueck vom Kuchen" for his region... and received it.


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## panda80

nachalnik said:


> The Koralmbahn will provide a direct route between Graz (2nd largest town in Austria) and Klagenfurt, total length is 126 km. Travel time will be ~50-55 minutes (dependinmg on intermediate stops) instead of now 2h45 (via Leoben).
> Also the travel time from Vienna to Klagenfurt and beyond (Venice etc) will be shortened by 30 minutes. This trains will in future run via Graz instead of via Leoben.
> The Koralmbahn is due to open in 2020, total costs are at around 5 billion EUR (2009 prices).
> 
> 
> Nachalnik


Why is it going to open so late, in 2020?Some sections seems really advanced with construction works.


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## nachalnik

panda80 said:


> Why is it going to open so late, in 2020?Some sections seems really advanced with construction works.



The first section will already be opened in december 2010, and will be used for the transportation of the rock material from the Koralm-tunnel construction site, as well as for improved local trains Graz - Wettmannstäten - Deutschlandsberg.

Construction of the Koralmtunnel has just begun in march 2009, and as it is a 34 km long tunnel, it will take some time...



BTW, the decision to build the Koralmbahn was made in 1995, long before Jörg Haider and his party FPÖ/BZÖ had much political influence in the province Carinthia.
I don't have any sympathy for Haider and the FPÖ/BZÖ, and I admit that there are more important projects for Austria. But I don't consider the Koralmbahn as totally useless. It will not only improve connections to Carinthia, but it will also re-route the axis Vienna - Carinthia - Italy via Graz (which is the 2nd largest town in Austria and currently bypassed by this route).


@panda80: It would be better, if you removed the photos from your quotation. I think it's enough, if they are shown in the original post - that improves the overview in this thread and reduces bandwith usage...


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## nachalnik

BTW, here are some detailed maps showing the route of the Koralmbahn:

Werndorf - Wettmannstätten:
http://www.oebb.at/infrastruktur/de...eilstreckenk_Weitendorf-Wettmannst_090826.pdf

Wettmannstätten - Lavanttal:
http://www.oebb.at/infrastruktur/de...6_4Teilstreckenkarte_Wettmannst-St.Andrae.pdf

Lavanttal - Aich:
http://www.oebb.at/infrastruktur/de...nkarten/5Streckenkarte_StPaul-Aich_090826.pdf

Aich - Althofen:
http://www.oebb.at/infrastruktur/de...rten/6Teilstreckenk_Aich-Althofen_090818b.pdf

Althofen - Klagenfurt:
http://www.oebb.at/infrastruktur/de...7Streckenkarte_Althofen-Klagenfurt_090826.pdf

green = finished
blue = under construction
red = planned


The section from Graz to Werndorf will be built later (maybe after 2025). Untill then, trains will use the Südbahn-line (double track) between Graz and Werndorf and will change at Werndorf to the Koralmbahn.


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## nachalnik

Koralmbahn constrcution site at the new station "Lavanttal":


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## Slartibartfas

hans280 said:


> That's politics for you, Slartibartfas. (BTW, are you named after the literary character or the band? )


The book, but my avatar is in its own right, its Slartibartfas not Slartibartfas*t*  I had no clue there was a band...



> There is one towering figure in recent Austrian history who made the Koralmbahn his priority. That person was Joerg Haider, rightwing populist and former governor in Carinthia. His provincial capital, Klagenfurt, is a major beneficiary of the new tunnel and he went out on a limb to make sure that it would get the tunnel. (He even threatened to complain legally in case OBB set back the date of construction starts.) It couldn't be clearer that with the Westbahn out of Vienna and the preparations for the new Brenner connection, the government's ultra-rightwing nemesis demanded "ein Stueck vom Kuchen" for his region... and received it.


Well, I am perfectly aware of that and now his successors succeeded in making all Austrians pay for their finance disaster as well. (Hypo...)

I am a fan of rail investments, but when I see the Koralmbahn, I just can't help myself thinking about all the stuff that would be sooo much more important and also offer a far better reward in exchange. The point is, that the Koralmbahn does not even make so much sense for longer connections either. 

But I know, politics does not has to appease Bratislava, thats a different country, but it has to appease those Karawankenbären...


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## Linie29

..


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## thun

Yet it still is far from being flat. And you have to keep in mind that thats probably the least important part of the Westbahn.

In terms of freight traffic the Innviertelbahn (Wels - Passau) is more important than the Westbahn from Wels to Salzburg as far as I know. And that part was upgrated during the last years in terms of both capacity and speed (and is quite impressive now, imo). Also, that's the route the ICEs to Vienna take. And thats as far as I can see the reason why the investments on the Westbahn (apart from the rebuilding of Salzburg Hbf.) are focussed on the part east of Wels - ÖBB wants to create a (freight) rail corridor to Eastern Europe along the Danube that can deal with the new demand. The only real project to speed up passenger trains (the new line from Vienna to St. Pölten) makes real sense only in combination with the new Vienna main station.

However, it would make sense to upgrate the railway from Munich to Salzburg. The proposal is to build a second track on the Munich - Freilassing route via Mühldorf, allow higher speeds and electrify it. This would finally allow to segregate the traffic to the Brenner from the traffic to the Westbahn and create a real backup route for both Alps crossings (Brenner and Tauern). Maybe, even a connection via Munich airport could be considered. However, these afaik are only proposals, so we probably have to wait another 20 to 25 years to see results (if the should happen at all).


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## KingNick

The main argument to upgrade a railway track would be to reduce travel time and thereby make it more attractive to people still using the car. Freight only plays a minor roll and isn't really an argument.

I also wouldn't say it's the least important part of the westbahn. Salzburg is _the_ hub for all trains to western Austria and also plays a major roll (even more important than Linz if you ask me) for pretty much all the north-bounding trains to Germany. I also can't think of another region in Austria, which is more interconnected with the other side of the boarder plus you also have the ICE in Salzburg.

Munich - Salzburg via MUC? How would this make any sense? I mean MUC is not just some kilometers north of Munich. Quite a detour and the transrapid is more likely to be built.


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## rheintram

> Freight only plays a minor roll and isn't really an argument.


So wrong! Freight is the driving force behind all (most) railway upgrades!

It's mostly because of cargo that Westbahn capacity has been doubled (four tracks).


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## KingNick

rheintram said:


> So wrong! Freight is the driving force behind all (most) railway upgrades!
> 
> It's mostly because of cargo that Westbahn capacity has been doubled (four tracks).


Yeah, because of it, but not for it. They upgrade to keep the people transportation attractive otherwise they would have to face huge losses in this sector. Who would still take the train if it's stuck behind cargo trains all the time?


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## thun

In fact freight traffic is the more important argument to upgrate the tracks between Munich and Salzburg (the chemical industry in Burghausen creates so much cargo that the existing capacities aren't sufficient for years already). Speeding up passenger trains is more a side effect.

Regarding the line via Mühldorf and the connection to MUC (most important argument: direct connections from everything Northeast, East and Southeast of Munich to the airport by regional services):
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahnstrecke_München–Mühldorf
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erdinger_Ringschluss


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## nachalnik

thun said:


> Future plans for the Austrian rail network:
> - 4 tracks on the Inntalbahn (Kundl - Radfeld)


under constrcution, to be opened in dec 2012



> - 3 tracks from Salzburg to Freilassing (D) (S-Bahn Salzburg)


Salzburg Hbf - Taxham finished, Taxham - Freilassing planned (maybe ready in 2015 or so).



> - renovation Salzburg main station


under construction



> - second track Werndorf - Spielfeld - Straß (Slowenian border to Maribor)


Only the section Lebring - Leibnitz will be double-tracked in the near future (partly already finished, partly under constrcution), the timeline for the realization of the other sections is still not fixed.
Might also depend on Slovenia, currently they don't have any plans to upgrade the line Spielfeld - Maribor...



> - renovation Graz main station


under construction



> - 4 tracks Westbahn Ybbs - Amstetten


under construction, to be fully operational in ~2015



> - new freight bypass St. Pölten (Westbahn)


under construction



> - new line St. Pölten - Vienna


under construction, to be opened in dec 2012



> - Lainzer tunnel in Vienna (connection between the Westbahn, the new main station, the Ostbahn and the Südbahn)


under construction, to be opened in dec 2012 (but will be used for passenger trains only once Wien Hbf is finished)



> - new Vienna main station (u/c)



A few tracks will be operational from dec 2012 (for local trains from the east, after the current Wien Südbahnhof (Ostseite) will be shut down), will be fully operational in 2015 (then most long distance trains will serve the new station).




> - Upgrating of the Pottendorfer Linie (Meidling - Wampersdorf, south of Vienna)


partly double tracking under construction



> - new loop between Eisenstadt and Müllendorf (bypass for Vienna, connecting the Südbahn and the Ostbahn/Wien-Raaber Bahn to Budapest)



No, this will be no (freight) bypass, the only purpose is to speed up local (passenger) train services Vienna - Eisenstadt.

If it had been planned as a (freight) bypass, then also a south-to-east curve in Parndorf Ort would be necessary. Also passing tracks on the Wulkaprodersdorf - Parndorf Ort line are not suitable for (long) freight trains.


Nachalnik


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## nachalnik

KingNick said:


> As a matter of fact it would be about time to massively invest in the western part of the Westbahn, too.


Well, the Semmering base tunnel and the Koralm-line are huge investments, and it is just not affordable to realize these projects and a further upgrade of vthe Westbahn between Attnang-Puchheim and Salzburg.

For the next decade the focus is clear:

Finishing the capacity upgrade on the Westbahn (4tracks from Vienna to Wels, there the line splits and capacity isn't such a big issue between Wels and Salzburg)

Enabling a more attractive Südbahn from Vienna via Graz to Klagenfurt with building the Semmering base tunnel (SBT) and the Koralm line (KAB = Koralmbahn).

Travel times on the Westbahn are quite attractive already now and will be substiantially reduced in dec 2012.
Compared to that, the Südbahn travel times are unchanged since 30-40 years and are not really competitive. So it is really necessary to improve the situation. One must not forget, that there is about the same amount of inhabitants in the corridor between Vienna and Villach via Wr Neustadt - Bruck - Graz - Klagenfurt and in the corridor Vienna - Linz - Salzburg.
And also the first deserve a decent railway connection.
Even with SBT and KAB the travel times from Vienna to Graz and Klagenfurt wont be better than today to Linz and Salzburg, allthough the distance (as the bird flies) is similar. However, they will be much better than today (currently 3h50 to Klagenfurt vs 2h40 to Salzburg and 2h30 to Graz vs 1h30 to Linz).

So, with limited funds I can fully understand, that further upgrades between Attnang-Puchheim and Salzburg will be only started AFTER the construction of SBT and KAB.
Then the 1st section will be from Neumarkt-Köstendorf to Salzburg (about 20 km, new fast double track line supplementing the existing line). From today's point of view the 2nd section (Attnang-Puchheim - Neumarkt-Köstendorf) might be realized only in the very very far future.

With the new Neumarkt-Köstendorf - Salzburg line and an upgrade of the Salzburg - Mühldorf - Munich line (planned according to the Bundesverkehrswegeplan), the travel time Vienna - Munich would then be at around 3h30 (Vienna - Linz 1h15, Vienna - Salzburg 2h15)....


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## thun

Thanks for your added information.
I don't really think that the Brenner base tunnel will be opened in 2012, given the fact that the start of construction is planned not before 2015.  It could be opened between 2025 and 2027.

Apparently I really misinterpreted the Eisenstadt-Müllendorf upgrate (I thought it was clear from the map I linked, it turned out to be too large scaled however). Of course, your explanation makes much more sense.

Regarding the Westbahn "vs." Südbahn, I would agree to your explanation of the project schedules. Upgrating the Wels-Salzburg part of the Westbahn is indeed far less important than upgrating the Eastern part of the Westbahn and the Südbahn. It really makes sense only when the German line (Freilassing-Munich via Mühldorf) should be realized some day, too.


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## nachalnik

thun said:


> Thanks for your added information.
> I don't really think that the Brenner base tunnel will be opened in 2012,



Of course.

My comments only refer to the last quoted project above, sorry for the misunderstanding caused by that...now I edited my previous posting to make things more clear.


Nachalnik


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## kreden

nachalnik said:


> Might also depend on Slovenia, currently they don't have any plans to upgrade the line Spielfeld - Maribor...


We do, there's a spatial plan for the Maribor - Šentilj railway being prepared. A second track and upgrade to 120 or 160 km/h is planned.


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## rheintram

> - Upgrating the connection Lauterach-St. Margareten (CH)


This is actually under construction. Although short it's an important section of the Zurich to Munich line. Currently a new bridge over the Rhine, between Lustenau (A) and St. Margrethen (CH), is under construction. The line will also be partially upgraded to a second line.



> - security measures Arlbergtunnel


Most of the work is already finished.

As for the SBT I doubt it will be built in the next few years.


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## nachalnik

kreden said:


> We do, there's a spatial plan for the Maribor - Šentilj railway being prepared. A second track and upgrade to 120 or 160 km/h is planned.


Well, Slovenia has indeed a lot of plans, but till now all money went to the highway construction.

The only major rail project, which had been realized during the last 20 years was the new line Murska Sobota - Hodos and currently the upgrade of Pragersko - Murska Sobota. The planned electrification of this line is delayed untill 2020 or so.

Meanwhile hundreds of km of new highways were built during the last 10-15 years, whereas important railway projects are being delayed from year to year (like the new line Koper - Divaca - is it now finally under construction?).
New alignments for higher speeds on the main line Ljubljana - Maribor/Zagreb would be much more important than an upgrade of Maribor - Sentilj, but even there no progress is visible.

I know that there are a lot of plans in Slovenia (http://www.mzp.gov.si/fileadmin/mzp.gov.si/pageuploads/06RESOLUCIJA_2007-23_0711.ppt ), but are the necessary investments already fixed?


Sorry for off-topic, maybe we should continue this discussion in the Slovenia-thread....


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## kreden

Just to reply, yes, the motorways have been a priority so far, but that is changing now, parliament passed a law giving a few percent of road taxes to railway construction and that alone will give 100 million euro or so per year towards building and upgrading new tracks so I think we can expect things to move quicker in the future. But anyway my point is that a spatial plan is being prepared meaning that it's not just an idea anymore and that it will be built for certain, the only question is when. 

Sorry for the offtopic.


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## thun

Well, that's usually the question, not only in Slovenia. 

I think the connections to the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary are way more important (at least from the Austrian point of view) anyway.


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## nachalnik

kreden said:


> Just to reply, yes, the motorways have been a priority so far, but that is changing now, parliament passed a law giving a few percent of road taxes to railway construction and that alone will give 100 million euro or so per year towards building and upgrading new tracks so I think we can expect things to move quicker in the future.


OK, let's hope so.


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## nachalnik

Some pics of the renovated Westbahnhof in Vienna (as well as of the "Dacia"-overnight train to Bucharest):












































































































































































































































Nachalnik


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## Gadiri

nachalnik said:


> Nachalnik


Nice pictures.

Have you some pictures of interior sleepers trains ?


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## o0ink

_*railjet*_









http://www.flickr.com/photos/___riky___/4830642545/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/___riky___/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/___riky___/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/___riky___/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/kecko/4387966054/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpeschetz/3687628506/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/mpk/4257775870/in/photostream/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/___riky___/3527725293/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/austrianpsycho/5076202769/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/leled445/4591540442/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/jspetrak/3187236071/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/___riky___/3634525873/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/___riky___/3636482994/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattingham/5030394370/in/photostream/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/eaglesky/4016434086/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/chagiajose/4959039067/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/chagiajose/4319681946/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/chagiajose/4319679778/in/photostream/


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## NiGhtPiSH

The BDZ WLABm looks so out of place on Westbahnhof... I'm a little ashamed.


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## KingNick

NiGhtPiSH said:


> The BDZ WLABm looks so out of place on Westbahnhof... I'm a little ashamed.



The what?

Too sad you can't catch the beauty of the renovated Westbahnhof on pictures. Way more impressive in real.


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## KingNick

Some boost for the Brenner Base Tunnel:



> EU-Gelder sollen Brennertunnel-Bau ankurbeln
> *Pat Cox, EU-Koordinator des Brennerbasistunnels, möchte mehr EU-Gelder lockermachen.*
> 
> Für Pat Cox ist der Brennerbasistunnel (BBT) einer der Verkehrsprojekte mit höchster Priorität. Dies unterstrich der EU-Koordinator für den BBT bei einem Treffen mit Südtirols Landeshauptmann Luis Durnwalder und dem Koordinator für den Ausbau der Brennerbahnstrecke der italienischen Regierung, Mauro Fabris, am Dienstag in Bozen. Um die Fertigstellung des Mammut-Projektes voranzutreiben, will die EU mehr Gelder in die Hand nehmen. Im Zeitraum von 2014 bis 2020 wolle man die finanziellen Mittel seitens der EU auf 40 Prozent aufstocken.
> In Bozen wurden auch die Auswirkungen der Sparpakete auf die Finanzierung des Projektes thematisiert. Man erwarte bis Monatsende eine offizielle Antwort Österreichs zur Finanzierung, entsprechend solle dann Italien folgen. Beide Regierungen hätten bekräftigt, an der Fertigstellung des Tunnels bis 2025 festhalten zu wollen, beruhigte Cox.
> Der Basistunnel soll nach Angaben der BBT SE, die für die Planung und den Bau des Brennerbasistunnels verantwortlich ist, mit 64 km die längste unterirdische Eisenbahnverbindung der Welt werden. Sie gilt als das Kernelement des Korridorabschnitts München - Verona. Die Gesamtkosten werden mit Preisbasis vom 1.1.2009 mit 8 Mrd. Euro - vorausvalorisiert bis 2025 mit rund 9,7 Mrd. - beziffert.


http://kurier.at/wirtschaft/4489264-eu-gelder-sollen-brennertunnel-bau-ankurbeln.php

Pat Cox, EU coordinator for the BBT, announced that the EU wants to increase it's share to 40 % of the costs for the upcoming EU budget from 2014 to 2020. That's around 4 billion Euros.


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## Hubert Pollak

During my last visit in Austria I noticed that Westbahn have a lot of nice marketing activities. Some of them are good ideas like this one - a cup with Westbahn route:


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## KingNick

And still Westbahn is far away from their goals financial wise.


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## krnboy1009

Does German ICE trains go to Austria, like they go to Switzerland and I believe Denmark?


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## YU-AMC

Since when Railjet trains operate to Budapest?


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## KingNick

krnboy1009 said:


> Does German ICE trains go to Austria, like they go to Switzerland and I believe Denmark?


ÖBB even owns some ICE-T trains. Due to weird regulations tilting is disabled within Austria.









Austrian ICE network:


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## KingNick

YU-AMC said:


> Since when Railjet trains operate to Budapest?


Since they have been introduced in December 2008.


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## KingNick

Update from Himmelwärts on Vienna's new Main Station:



Himmelwärts said:


> Teil 2
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> irgendjemand wollte auch mal ein bild von dem bau an der rechten ecke:
> 
> [...]
> :evil:


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## krnboy1009

KingNick said:


> ÖBB even owns some ICE-T trains. Due to weird regulations tilting is disabled within Austria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Austrian ICE network:


Thanks for the info. How fast can ICE run in Austrain section then?


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## KingNick

As for today the only HSR sections (Vmax 200 km/h) can be found on the Westbahn between Wels Hbf and St. Pölten Hbf. By December this year St. Pölten Hbf - Wien Westbf and Kufstein - Innsbruck Hbf will follow with Vmax 220 - 250 km/h.

Also a new HSR line (Koralmbahn) is being built between Graz and Klagenfurt. Vmax 250 km/h finised around 2022.


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## krnboy1009

I guess ICE serves both passengers traveling within Austria and passengers heading to Germany as well? Unlike ICE service to Switzerland?


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## YU-AMC

KingNick said:


> Since they have been introduced in December 2008.


That's amazing for Budapest. Now what are the chances of having Railjet one day in Belgrade? The infrastructure needs to be upgraded on Serbian side, and Hungarian as well if I stand correct. I am not optimistic, but there is a large former Yugoslav community in Austria..


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## KingNick

krnboy1009 said:


> I guess ICE serves both passengers traveling within Austria and passengers heading to Germany as well? Unlike ICE service to Switzerland?


Is it like that in Switzerland? Within Austria the ICE is nothing more than an ordinary EC.


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## krnboy1009

ICE service in Swiss I believe is also mostly non-HS lines.


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## KingNick

YU-AMC said:


> That's amazing for Budapest. Now what are the chances of having Railjet one day in Belgrade? The infrastructure needs to be upgraded on Serbian side, and Hungarian as well if I stand correct. I am not optimistic, but there is a large former Yugoslav community in Austria..


Since I am living in Vienna; yeah I know.  Those guys are normally taking the bus from Wien Südtirolerplatz, since it's way faster than any train.

Railjet running to Belgrade? Won't happen anytime soon, since Budapest is more or less broke and tight now average speed between those cities is around 50 - 60 km/h. The Railjet on the other hand is designed for 230 km/h. Does not make much sense.

What I would love to see is a connection between Vienna and Budapest via Bratislava. It really galls me that this capital and therefore a lot of potential is left out.


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## Verso

I first hear about this Railjet, and what's even more surprising is that it was manufactured in Slovenia (at least that's what Wiki says).


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## YU-AMC

KingNick said:


> Since I am living in Vienna; yeah I know.  Those guys are normally taking the bus from Wien Südtirolerplatz, since it's way faster than any train.
> 
> Railjet running to Belgrade? Won't happen anytime soon, since Budapest is more or less broke and tight now average speed between those cities is around 50 - 60 km/h. The Railjet on the other hand is designed for 230 km/h. Does not make much sense.
> 
> What I would love to see is a connection between Vienna and Budapest via Bratislava. It really galls me that this capital and therefore a lot of potential is left out.


Sounds about the right. Btw can rainjet run 230km/h all the way to Budapest? I saw it on Hungarian railways, but it does not seem 230km to me. I would say maybe 180ish...


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## KingNick

YU-AMC said:


> Sounds about the right. Btw can rainjet run 230km/h all the way to Budapest? I saw it on Hungarian railways, but it does not seem 230km to me. I would say maybe 180ish...


Nope, atm 230 are only reached in Germany and soon in Austria as well. Vienna - Budapest is Vmax 160 km/h.


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## KingNick

Verso said:


> I first hear about this Railjet, and what's even more surprising is that it was manufactured in Slovenia (at least that's what Wiki says).


Some parts of the bodyshell are being produced in Maribor, yes. They are then shipped to Vienna, where assembly and final production is done by ÖBB Technisches Service.


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## Irish Blood English Heart

I used it a couple of years ago to get from Budapest to Wien after Sziget Festival, it was actually two sets coupled together and extremely long! I was very impressed with it, probably the most comfortable train I have ever travelled on!


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## flierfy

KingNick said:


> UIC Standards are not binding in anyway though. That is why I am talking about EU standards. Those standards are not bollocks since you'd have to change your entire rolling stock and every single station. Can you imagine of how much money we're talking about here just to remove an minor obstacle? You can't remove steps entirely anyway. If you lift entrance height to a level where steps are obsolet you can't use double decker trains (really important in some parts of Austria) anymore or you'd have to build in a step inside the car. So your just shifting the "problem" from one end to another.


That's not true. You can very well remove steps entirely as various rail system around the worlds demonstrate. All it takes are high-level platforms. The S-Bahn in Berlin is step-free and the entire railway network in Japan is step-free as well. Except for their double-decker carriages where stairs were built in deliberately.
Which brings me back to Austria where double-decker carriages are neither essential nor would it make any difference at high-level platforms as the number of steps remains the same.



KingNick said:


> And yes, right now you can enter Talents and Double Decker trains without steps.


Entering maybe. But you won't get very far without climbing steps.


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## KingNick

flierfy said:


> That's not true. You can very well remove steps entirely as various rail system around the worlds demonstrate. All it takes are high-level platforms. The S-Bahn in Berlin is step-free and the entire railway network in Japan is step-free as well. Except for their double-decker carriages where stairs were built in deliberately.
> Which brings me back to Austria where double-decker carriages are neither essential nor would it make any difference at high-level platforms as the number of steps remains the same.
> 
> Entering maybe. But you won't get very far without climbing steps.


1) Vienna's S-Bahn network is also becoming step-free as the old 4020s are being replaced with Talent 2 trains.

2) Double decker trains are highly essential for Vienna's regional rail network. Otherwise it would collapse completely. You can't get rid of them.

3) Talent and double deckers in Austria are step-free. Inside and outside. So I got no idea what the hell you're talking about.

4) A closed network like the Berlin S-Bahn is step free, yes, but apart from that? Japan definitely is not, as you already mentioned in your post. So what are the various countries without steps?


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## K_

flierfy said:


> I do perfectly well know what I'm talking about. I'm not so sure about you though. The whole point of platforms is to lift passengers to the height of the floor level of the carriages and just to the lowest step. In fact steps are meant to be removed entirely. This, however, can't be achieve with platforms as shallow as 55 cm. And that is why this standard, which are a UIC standard by the way, is simply bollocks.



Tell me, what should the height be then?

What height will achieve step free access to any and every train around?


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## Suburbanist

^^ If you are going to standardize, you got to start somewhere and choose a standard.

That is why I think EU should roll out not only mandatory ECTS in all non-self contained railways, but also 25kV, 60Hz electrification and whatever uniform platform height (the higher the better as it deters illegal track crossing in stations). No upgrade or update work should be allowed without bringing the tracks concerned to these new standards - except in closed systems like subway networks...


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## K_

flierfy said:


> The S-Bahn in Berlin is step-free and the entire railway network in Japan is step-free as well.


The Salzburg S-Bahn is Step Free as well. What is your complaint?


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## Stainless

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ If you are going to standardize, you got to start somewhere and choose a standard.
> 
> That is why I think EU should roll out not only mandatory ECTS in all non-self contained railways, but also 25kV, 60Hz electrification and whatever uniform platform height (the higher the better as it deters illegal track crossing in stations). No upgrade or update work should be allowed without bringing the tracks concerned to these new standards - except in closed systems like subway networks...


Good utopian idea but I can't see that happening. Also why 60Hz when the whole of Europe uses 50Hz or a fraction of that? Even closed systems have mixed heights, like the London underground. Do you know how much work it would be to raise every platform in an entire country?


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## Suburbanist

^^ 50Hz I meant, sorry,


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## K_

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ If you are going to standardize, you got to start somewhere and choose a standard.
> 
> That is why I think EU should roll out not only mandatory ECTS in all non-self contained railways, but also 25kV, 60Hz electrification and whatever uniform platform height (the higher the better as it deters illegal track crossing in stations). No upgrade or update work should be allowed without bringing the tracks concerned to these new standards - except in closed systems like subway networks...


Mandating a universal electrification system is completely unnecessary. 
Mandating ECTS is basically happening right now.
As to platform heights. The problem here is basically that it is quite complicated.
You don't want "as high as possible". Deterring track crossing can be done with a cheap fence if needed. 
The 550mm that many European railways use has the advantage that you can easily have step free access both in single level and double deck stock. So that is a good choice for networks that use both.


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## flierfy

K_ said:


> Tell me, what should the height be then?
> 
> What height will achieve step free access to any and every train around?


120 cm for high speed services and 96 cm for all other services.



K_ said:


> The Salzburg S-Bahn is Step Free as well.


No, it is not. Bombardier's Talents have lots of step as have Stadler's Flirts. And don't get me started on double decker carriages.

For those who can't spot the steps I marked them:


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## KingNick

And as you also see, you can access many seats before you even get to those stairs.


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## K_

flierfy said:


> 120 cm for high speed services and 96 cm for all other services.


120 cm cm means that you step _down_ when entering a TGV Duplex, if it's able to open its doors, that is.
And most stations that receive high speed services receive other services as well, at the same platforms. What hight will you build them there?

It's impossible to build platforms to a height such as that all trains will have step free access. Priority should be given to providing step free access to local trains, so that people in wheelchairs can use public transport to commute. For long distance trains the need is less pressing because those trains are usually staffed, stop at staffed stations, and have longer dwell times.

So for some networks 550 mm makes a lot of sense.



> No, it is not. Bombardier's Talents have lots of step as have Stadler's Flirts.


Internal steps are not a problem. A person in a wheelchair does not need access to the whole vehicle. 



> And don't get me started on double decker carriages.


So how would you design a double deck carriage?

The IC2000 carriage has step free access to the whole lower level, but only as long as the platforms are 550mm high...


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## Vaud

The importance of those internal steps is underlined by the fact that using a small ramp instead of those steps would be very easy, but it's not used because it's not necessary.


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## KingNick

Vaud said:


> The importance of those internal steps is underlined by the fact that using a small ramp instead of those steps would be very easy, but it's not used because it's not necessary.


ÖBB's double-decker carriages have those ramps when you enter.


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## flierfy

KingNick said:


> And as you also see, you can access many seats before you even get to those stairs.


And you mean that the other seats are for decoration purposes only?



K_ said:


> 120 cm cm means that you step _down_ when entering a TGV Duplex, if it's able to open its doors, that is.


Well, then try a proper high-speed train whose floor level perfectly matches a 120 cm high platform. Like this one for instance:












K_ said:


> And most stations that receive high speed services receive other services as well, at the same platforms. What hight will you build them there?


That's simple. High-speed services get their dedicated tracks and platforms as they do have in Japan and China.



K_ said:


> It's impossible to build platforms to a height such as that all trains will have step free access.


It is very well possible. I told you how it works. And it does work elsewhere already and even partly here in Europe. It just doesn't work as long as we stick to low level platforms.



K_ said:


> Priority should be given to providing step free access to local trains, so that people in wheelchairs can use public transport to commute. For long distance trains the need is less pressing because those trains are usually staffed, stop at staffed stations, and have longer dwell times.


You do very well know that this is an awful excuse for an indefensible ****-up. Long distance services are required to be step-free just in the same way as local services. And staff has not been employed to assist people onto trains. They have other duties. So don't try to defend this third-rate solution.



K_ said:


> Internal steps are not a problem. A person in a wheelchair does not need access to the whole vehicle.


Services don't run just for people in wheelchairs. And internal steps are problematic in some regards for all people even if they're not prohibitive for them.



K_ said:


> So how would you design a double deck carriage?


I wouldn't design them at all. I'd run longer single floor trainsets and/or more services instead.



K_ said:


> The IC2000 carriage has step free access to the whole lower level, but only as long as the platforms are 550mm high...


DB-Classes 420-422, 470-474 and 480-485 have step-free access on a 96 cm platform to all parts of the train and not just 40% of it. How good is that then in comparison?


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## KingNick

flierfy said:


> And you mean that the other seats are for decoration purposes only?


If you're that handicapped that you can't even climb one single step, you shouldn't be too picky with your seat choice. Take the one closest to the door.



flierfy said:


> Well, then try a proper high-speed train whose floor level perfectly matches a 120 cm high platform. Like this one for instance:


Again a closed network, like the S-Bahn in Berlin, with dedicated HSR service only. Completely useless on a network where double decker trains are essential.



flierfy said:


> That's simple. High-speed services get their dedicated tracks and platforms as they do have in Japan and China.


Austria does not have dedicated tracks and platforms. HS trains use the same platforms as regional trains and that is for a good reason. This allows people to transfer to another train without the need of changing platforms:

http://www.oebb.at/infrastruktur/de...ren/Umsteigen_am_gleichen_Bahnsteig/index.jsp



flierfy said:


> It is very well possible. I told you how it works. And it does work elsewhere already and even partly here in Europe. It just doesn't work as long as we stick to low level platforms.


Nope, you just pick single closed networks like HSR in China and Japan and claim the entire railway network there would be step-free (as we already know from the double decker Shinkansen it's not the case with HSR in Japan).



flierfy said:


> You do very well know that this is an awful excuse for an indefensible ****-up. Long distance services are required to be step-free just in the same way as local services. And staff has not been employed to assist people onto trains. They have other duties. So don't try to defend this third-rate solution.


That is no excuse, that is the lived reality. Of course they are employed to help people onto the train, who can't do so by themselves. Long distance trains stop at least 5 minutes at every stop. The Austrian Railjet even has a built-in elevator to lift people in their wheelchairs onto the train.


Hebelift im railjet wird aufgebaut von Martin Ladstaetter auf Flickr



flierfy said:


> I wouldn't design them at all. I'd run longer single floor trainsets and/or more services instead.


So they were created for the lulz? :lol:

On the Stammstrecke in Vienna regional trains run every 3 minutes during peak hours. Without double decker trains the system would collapse. Or take the RER or S-Bahn Zurich as another example of how bizarre that idea is.




flierfy said:


> DB-Classes 420-422, 470-474 and 480-485 have step-free access on a 96 cm platform to all parts of the train and not just 40% of it. How good is that then in comparison?


Is there a country with only handicapped people to require a number bigger than 40 %? :lol:


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## Sopomon

Guys, it is possible to run both double and single deck trains from high level platfroms you know.
Cue, Sydney!









New Waratah trains, no-step access.











CityRail explorer, single-deck.

Am I missing something?


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## KingNick

Apparently it is possible, the costs of building everything new still does not justify such adaptions. It is simply not possible since the current rolling stock can't operate at high platforms. You'd have to change everything over night and we're talking about 500 EMUs, 3.200 single coaches plus 1.143 stations.

It's ridiculiously cheaper to help really old granny onto the long distance coach the one time a year she actually uses these trains, whereas she uses the regional trains way more often and these trains are barrier free.


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## K_

Sopomon said:


> Guys, it is possible to run both double and single deck trains from high level platfroms you know.
> Cue, Sydney!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Waratah trains, no-step access.


But a TGV duplex pulling alongside the same platform won't even be able to open its doors...
(Where's the accessible toilet on that train btw...)

Which again underlines my point: It's impossible to provide step free access to all trains if you have a major hub that receives trains from all over Europe.

If you only have to cater for a limited number of train types, yes, you can build so that you have step free access to all of them. But the Waratah sets for example don't have the continuous upper level that for example the TGV Duplex or the IC2000 has. And that is a very nice thing to have too. But that configuration requires the entrance to be at the lower level.

So building platforms at 550mm, and building double deckers so you enter at the lower level is a good compromise too...


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## K_

flierfy said:


> And you mean that the other seats are for decoration purposes only?


So you mean that people can't negotiate steps?



> That's simple. High-speed services get their dedicated tracks and platforms as they do have in Japan and China.


Are you going to pay for that?



> I wouldn't design them at all. I'd run longer single floor trainsets and/or more services instead.


That is not always possible. The TGV Duplex was designed to solve a problem that was not solvable in another way.

1Basically what you are doing here is engaging in the Nirvana fallacy. You're rejecting a solution because it isn't perfect. However assuming a perfect solution is possible is a fallacy. 

In the real world compromises must be made. In a network that has a long history as the European rail network, and with the level of integration that we have it is not possible to easily implement solutions that are practical in small or new networks.
Also the amount of resources available is not unlimited. I am against the tendency of trying to solve everything regardless of how much money needs to move from the taxpayers pockets in to those of building firms.

So SBB and ÖBB have decided to build their platforms at 550mm. This means that for a large proportion of trains on their network, and all local trains step free access to a large part of the vehicle is possible. 
And for those trains where this is not possible you can just employ people to assist.
It's not a perfect world. Learn to live with that.


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## thun

Suburbanist 2.0. Why are you even paying attention?


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## KingNick

Nah, Suburbanist would have told us how much of a death threat these platforms are without any safety doors:


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## Suburbanist

^^ PSDs are awesome. Where train door spacing is not standardized, they could use the PSDs leaving a short 1m spacing, that would be opened only when the train is completely stopped.


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## KingNick




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## K_

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ PSDs are awesome. Where train door spacing is not standardized, they could use the PSDs leaving a short 1m spacing, that would be opened only when the train is completely stopped.


What will you do with train doors that are only 1m wide?


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## nachalnik

Another reason for the 550mm platform level in Austria and Switzerland is, that there are some stations where even this level cannot be enabled due to the location of stations in sharp curves.
If the platform is located in a sharp curve, only 380mm platform level is possible, as 550mm platforms would be a problem regarding gauge clearance (only possible with a bigger than allowed gap between train and platform).

Trains which are designed for step free access at 550mm platforms, are also allowed to stop at 380mm platforms (max step difference is 170mm). But there would be a problem with trains designed for step free entrance at higher levels.

Of course new stations are not built in sharp curves, but there are some station on the existing networks, where the local situation does not allow wider curves and thus 550mm-platforms.

One example is Bruck an der Mur, which is an important transfer hub on the main line from Vienna to the south:



















(photo: http://www.railfaneurope.net)


The station is currently being reconstructed, but the platform level cannot be raised due to the curves (which cannot be widened without spending an unreasonable amount of money to remove the mountain next to the station...).
So this station will never ever have 550mm platforms.

I think in Switzerland there are some examples too, if I remember correctly Bern is a station, where the curves don't allow higher platform levels.


Nachalnik


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## keber

K_ said:


> Overhead power rails are getting quite common in tunnels as well. I guess here it is used for aesthetic reasons.


Nope, because of "available space" reason. With those rigid catenary you don't need high poles and additional tension poles.
However their cost is much bigger so it is still not used a lot.

Also ballastless track costs about twice of a normal track (around 1500-2000 € per meter of track) and it is not sane reason to use it on station, if adjoining infrastructure uses ballast track.


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## K_

nachalnik said:


> I think in Switzerland there are some examples too, if I remember correctly Bern is a station, where the curves don't allow higher platform levels.


That's correct, but some platforms have been extended on the Western end, and since the extensions are straight these are 550mm high. Which means that some platforms are 380mm at one end and 550mm at the other. Which is a pain sometimes when boarding an ICE...


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## KingNick

Constructions are already on their way for the connection between the eastern railway and the railway to the airport:




KingNick said:


> Mittlerweile wird schon ordentlich gebaut bei der Verbindung Ostbahn - Flughafenschnellbahn:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> Alle Rechte liegen bei User "mitleser" vom EBFÖ: http://www.bahnforum.info/smf/index.php?topic=144369.msg1386288#msg1386288


Basically what they are building is a long bridge to cross Vienna's central hump yard. This is done to save time (Railjets are not forced to cross all the switches with really low speed) and keep operations going at the yard plus it connects Vienna's new main station with the airport.


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## thun

Austria is about to unify the operation of its lines. Therefore, some railways in Eastern Austria switched operations from left hand side-traffic to right hand side in some 80 stations, which has always been used on the West- and Ostbahn. The Südbahn will keep left hand side traffic for some more time.
The reason for this particularity is that the Südbahn was constructed by English engineers which designed it accordingly to English standards. For the newer railroads the Continental system of right hand side traffic was adopted.
http://derstandard.at/1343744066057/Kaum-Probleme-mit-dem-Rechtsverkehr


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## KingNick

Well the reason why they change sides in the first place is the new central station in Vienna, otherwise the station's capacity would be around 30 % lower as all lines are bundled there.

Speaking of the new central station: Trains are now using the tracks through the station instead of the bypass, which will be torn down any day now.




























Source: http://diepresse.com/home/panorama/...=&_vl_backlink=/home/panorama/index.do&popup=


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## thun

:applause:
Love the design.


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## nachalnik

Some recent pics (11.8.2012) from Vienna main station:































RJ 63 Munich - Budapest:




























EC 103 Warszawa - Villach:


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## vitacit

nachalnik said:


> Some recent pics (11.8.2012) from Vienna main station:
> 
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i was in wien on saturday (i live in bratislava, which just behind the corner) to see the city again and so... sudbahnhof is growing and will be absolutely adorable ! i can't wait until it will be done !!!


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## KingNick

Test runs for the new HS-line between Vienna and St. Pölten started yesterday:


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## nachalnik

KingNick said:


> Test runs for the new HS-line between Vienna and St. Pölten started yesterday:



Well, the test runs already started several weeks ago.

Now there are some special high-speed test runs with ICE-S and speeds up to 330 km/h, but the railjet already ran at 253 km/h some weeks ago.


Nachalnik


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## Bart_LCY

Don't know if this was posted here before. 

Cabride on the New Lower Inn Valley railway (German: Neue Unterinntalbahn)

Description of the video says that this was a test ride on the 26th of July, 2012.

From rabik68 channel on YT.


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## KingNick

Building railway lines the Austrian way. Let's built a fucking tunnel, aight? Those 40 km cost 2.36 billion Euros.

Thanks though, haven't seen this one so far.


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## KingNick

Talking about fucking tunnels:

The two separated tubes of the Koralmtunnel have been connected for the very first time on the Styrian side. As for today 4 respectively 5 km of 33 km tunnel have been dug.

http://steiermark.orf.at/news/stories/2547463/

On the Carinthian side this baby started drilling some days ago:










Apparently it is capable of evacuating up to 30 Meters a day. :smug:

Furthermore it is reported in Austria that the chances the EU co-financing the project have risen. This means that about 1/5th of the entire costs (around 1 Billion Euros) could be carried by the EU.

http://kaernten.orf.at/news/stories/2547526/


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## Coccodrillo

There will be no track link between the two tubes, not a wise decision in my opinion.

*************

How are the tramway projects in Innsbruck going? I read some 8 years ago for plans to convert trolleybus lines O and R into tramway lines, but apparently nothing has been done (except replacing the trolleybuses with diesel buses).


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## KingNick

What about the emergency station? I can imagine that the tracks are connected there.


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## NiGhtPiSH

Salzy looks amazing!  Will have to take a trip next weekend to see the station.


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## Deadeye Reloaded

We need aerial night pictures of that railway station! :uh:


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## nachalnik

o0ink said:


> Salzburg - Main Station: The platforms 1,2,3,4 and 5 were opened a while ago and they are building the last two platforms (6 and 7) at the moment.


They are not the last platforms, there will be also platforms 8+9.

BTW, thanks for the great photos.


Nachalnik


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## nachalnik

Coccodrillo said:


> Nice station!
> 
> What about the new Bosruck tunnel I saw as planned on the Schweer&Wall rail atlas?



It was decided to built a new tunnel instead of renovating the existing tunnel (which is in a bad condition and anyway would require an expensive upgrade to newest safety requirements).

The most significant benefit from the new tunnel would be a lower gradient (by eliminating the ascent from Selzthal to Ardning), which is important for freight traffic.
It would also reduce travel time (distance shortened by ~2 km, higher speed) and - together with other project on the Pyhrnbahn - enable a travel time of ~2,5 hrs between Graz and Linz in the future (maybe late 2020ies...).

However, construction won't start before 2019, as the construction is not yet included in the "Rahmenplan" (current 2013-2018 version: http://www.bmvit.gv.at/verkehr/gesamtverkehr/ausbauplan/downloads/rahmenplan_oebb_2013.pdf)



Nachalnik


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## o0ink

nachalnik said:


> They are not the last platforms, there will be also platforms 8+9.
> 
> BTW, thanks for the great photos.
> 
> 
> Nachalnik


Oh, sorry - I really didn't know that. Man, than means that this station probably gets more amazing than I ever thought... I'm a idiot.


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## Sunfuns

nachalnik said:


> It would also reduce travel time (distance shortened by ~2 km, higher speed) and - together with other project on the Pyhrnbahn - enable a travel time of ~2,5 hrs between Graz and Linz in the future (maybe late 2020ies...).


What is the current travel time? To be honest even the future one isn't all that great given that one could drive from one place to another in only a bit more than 2 hours.


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## nachalnik

Sunfuns said:


> What is the current travel time?


~3h20.



> To be honest even the future one isn't all that great given that one could drive from one place to another in only a bit more than 2 hours.



Well, a travel time of 2 hrs would require a totally new alignment between the Bosrucktunnel and Kirchdorf (with lots of tunnels and bridges) and a new direct line from Graz to St Michael.... not realistic to happen within the next 100 years.


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## Zero Gravity

One question, what are the hard limits on the westbahn in terms of speed. Is it the tracks/cateneries/etc or is it curve radius/gradient?
My question simply revolves around the idea of how expensive it would be to upgrade the line to a "true" high-speed line (300km/h or even 350+). Just curious....alas I am aware that this is unlikely to happen within the next 30 years or so.
Also why did they chose 250 as limit and didnt go further up?



ups, I lied, it's two questions now


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## nachalnik

Zero Gravity said:


> One question, what are the hard limits on the westbahn in terms of speed. Is it the tracks/cateneries/etc or is it curve radius/gradient?


Wien - St. Pölten: alignment designed for 250 km/h, technical equipment for 250 km/h

St. Pölten - St Valentin: alignment designed for 250 km/h (except around Amstettem: 160 km/h), technical equipment for 200 km/h

St Valentin - Linz Kleinmünchen: alignment designed for 250 km/h, technical equipment for 250 km/h

An upgrade to 250 km/h is planned between St. Pölten and Linz in the future. Catenary and some swichtes have to be exchanged, the cant of some curves has to be increased.
However, speed around the stations of St. Pölten and Amstetten will be limited to 80 km/h respectively 160 km/h due to the alignment.





> My question simply revolves around the idea of how expensive it would be to upgrade the line to a "true" high-speed line (300km/h or even 350+). Just curious....alas I am aware that this is unlikely to happen within the next 30 years or so.


The new lines in Austria were never designed for true highspeed. 
The basic idea were:
- increasing capacity
- as fast as necessary, not as fast as possible 

As fast as necessary means that ideal travel times between the hub should be reached to optimize connections in an integrated timetable.
The Swiss have shown how to bring such a system to perfection.

For the Westbahn Wien - Linz the planned travel times, which the new line will enable in the end, come from this hub-concept:
railjet: Wien (30) - St. Pölten (00) - Linz (45/15)
IC: Wien (00) - St. Pölten (30) - Amstetten (00) - St Valentin (15/45) -Linz (30).


A few images to explain the basic principle of such an hub-oriented system:






























That's IMHO the better approach in a part of Europe, where youn won't find a population structure with justifies real HSR.
The big towns generating enough passenger flow over long distances (300 km/h makes no real sense, if the train stops every 100 km...) are missing.
Wien - Budapest or Wien - Munich can't be compared with Paris - London or Rhein/Ruhr area - Bruxelles...


Nachalnik


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## Zero Gravity

If you put it that way that makes a lot of sense, yeah. Thanks for the reply Nachalnik


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## Sunfuns

Austria is quite similar to Switzerland (in size, population distribution etc) so modeling their railway system on the Swiss one makes perfect sense. 

Speed is nothing special, but punctuality, predictability of a time table and frequency of the service is really admirable. The system is starting to get noticeably more crowded, though...


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## nachalnik

Zero Gravity said:


> If you put it that way that makes a lot of sense, yeah. Thanks for the reply Nachalnik



You're welcome.

BTW, the complete hub-system for all the main axis will probably look as follows in 2025 (after completion of Koralmbahn and Semmeringtunnel, but no new line east of Salzburg yet):


railjet Budapest - Wien - Salzburg: 
Budapest (~00) - Györ (~30) - Wien (30) - St. Pölten (00) - Linz (45/15) - Salzburg (~00) 

IC Wien - Salzburg:
Wien (00) - St. Pölten (30) - Amstetten (00) - St Valentin (15/45) -Linz (30) - Wels (45/15) - Attnang-P (00) - Salzburg (~00)

railjet/IC Salzburg - Innsbruck - Bregenz/Zürich:
Salzburg (~00) - (Wörgl (15/45)) - Innsbruck (45/15) - Landeck (30) - Bludenz (30) - Feldkirch (45/15) - Bregenz (15/45)/Buchs SG (~15/45) - Zürich (30)

IC Wien - Graz - Villach
Wien (00) - Wr Neustadt (30) - Mürzzuschlag (00) - Bruck/M (~30) - Graz (00) - Klagenfurt (00) - Villach (30)

railjet/EC Wien - Graz - SLO/Villach-IT
Wien (30) - Graz (~15/45) - Maribor - .../Klagenfurt (~00) - Villach (30) - Udine - ....

IC Salzburg - Villach - SLO
Salzburg (~00) - Bischofshofen (45/15) - Schwarzach-St Veit (00) - Villach (30) - Ljubljana - ...

IC Graz - Bruck - Selzthal - Bischofshofen - Salzburg/Innsbruck:
Graz (00) - Bruck (~30) - Selzthal (~30) - Bischofshofen (15/45) - Salzburg (~00)/Wörgl (15/45) - Innsbruck (45/15)

RJ/EC Wien - Breclav and beyond
Wien (00 or 30) - Breclav (00 or 30) - ...

RJ/EC Wien - Bratislava and beyond
Wien (00 or 30) - Bratislava (45/15 or 15/45) - ...



-> based on a combination of http://www.oebb.at/infrastruktur/__resources/llShowDoc.jsp?nodeId=24317321 (page 43) and my own ideas (~270 pages of own ITF-related ideas can be downloaded here: http://www.taktfahrplan.info/2010/06/diploma-thesis.html...)


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## KingNick

Salzburg Hbf = railway porn :drool:


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## Suburbanist

Sunfuns said:


> Speed is nothing special,


Absurd statement.

With low ruling speeds (usually a product of ruling grades and curve radii), you take longer to complete a given trip. Simple as that.

It is 2012, and you still can't travel in less than 4 hours between Brengez and Wien. Isn't that a bad situation?


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## Sunfuns

Suburbanist said:


> Absurd statement.
> 
> With low ruling speeds (usually a product of ruling grades and curve radii), you take longer to complete a given trip. Simple as that.
> 
> It is 2012, and you still can't travel in less than 4 hours between Brengez and Wien. Isn't that a bad situation?


??? 

First of all I was talking about Swiss system and second I said that the speed there is not particularly fast. 

As for your example, Bregenz is a small town a very long way from Vienna. You might be able to cover this distance in less than 4 hours by driving to Zurich airport (ca 1 1/2 h) and flying from there.


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## Slartibartfas

Sunfuns said:


> ???
> 
> First of all I was talking about Swiss system and second I said that the speed there is not particularly fast.
> 
> As for your example, Bregenz is a small town a very long way from Vienna. You might be able to cover this distance in less than 4 hours by driving to Zurich airport (ca 1 1/2 h) and flying from there.


Possibly (even though 4 hours for the entire journey, everything included sounds a bit short) but a 7 hour railjet ride without a single transfer is probably a lot more relaxing than that, especially if you can use your laptop to do whatever.

PS: While speed matters it is not everything. Also when it comes to trains. That is why the Swiss system makes sense. Your journey time includes potentially necessary transfers and the more efficient they are the faster you are in the end. If a train is half an hour faster but you loose 40 min due to inefficient transfers, the only thing that you end up is having used more energy while needing longer for the given journey.


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## Coccodrillo

Slartibartfas said:


> PS: While speed matters it is not everything. Also when it comes to trains. That is why the Swiss system makes sense. Your journey time includes potentially necessary transfers and the more efficient they are the faster you are in the end. If a train is half an hour faster but you loose 40 min due to inefficient transfers, the only thing that you end up is having used more energy while needing longer for the given journey.


That's obvious, but Suburbanist will not trust you :lol: 

(just last week I nearly lost the 60 minutes I gained thanks to the Frecciarossa because of Trenitalia bad timetable - nearly because I managed to take a connecting train which wasn't planned to connect with mine)


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## Suburbanist

Slartibartfas said:


> PS: While speed matters it is not everything. Also when it comes to trains. That is why the Swiss system makes sense. Your journey time includes potentially necessary transfers and the more efficient they are the faster you are in the end. If a train is half an hour faster but you loose 40 min due to inefficient transfers, the only thing that you end up is having used more energy while needing longer for the given journey.


It is better to wait on a transfer point for a faster train idling in a station that has sufficient amenities for passengers than spend more time riding a slower-moving train!


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## K_

Suburbanist said:


> It is better to wait on a transfer point for a faster train idling in a station that has sufficient amenities for passengers than spend more time riding a slower-moving train!


And again you demonstrate your ignorance...

Psychology matters in transportation. And one of the things everyone who has some experience planning public transport knows is this: time is relative. the passage of time is experienced differently depending on the situation. One hour spend on a moving vehicle is subjectively perceived as being less long than one hour spend waiting. 
If you want to make train travel agreeable, so more people take trains you have to reduce the time spend waiting for the next train. That means that frequency and punctuality is important. Missing a connection, or turning up at the station finding that the next train is not due for two hours is what makes people decide to get in their car again next time.
All successful railway companies know this. You obviously even refuse to know this...


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## Suburbanist

^^ Missing a connection or waiting too long are different animals.

I'm talking of a situation like this

Scenario A
- slow train 44 min + 11 min waiting time + 155 min medium speed train = total 210 min

Scenario B
- slow train 44 min + 64 min waiting time + 102 min high-speed train = total 210 min

If schedules are known (e.g., no delay or unreliable service) and the waiting point is a good station with Wi-Fi, restaurants, a business lounge if you need so, then Scenario B is preferable to A, since a station offers a wider arrange of services and amenities than a moving train.

Now if the transfer station is an open platform exposed to the elements without a place to sit and with beggars and panhandlers in sight, then I concede Scenario A is preferable.


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## KingNick

A pretty bad accident happened today in the morning on Vienna's S45 between Hütteldorf and Penzing. Two Talent trains crashed into each other injuring 41 people (2 life-endangering). Up to this point there're only speculations regarding the cause.





































http://derstandard.at/1358304130919/Schnellbahnzuege-in-Wien-zusammengestossen-Mehrere-Verletzte


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## NiGhtPiSH

The info that was given by an ÖBB executive was that there was a switch malfunction and it had to be operated manually.


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## KingNick

NiGhtPiSH said:


> The info that was given by an ÖBB executive was that there was a switch malfunction and it had to be operated manually.


That is definitely not the reason why this happened. One train should not have gotten the clearance to enter the section, but got it. A technical defect can be ruled out, IMO.


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## Slartibartfas

KingNick said:


> That is definitely not the reason why this happened. One train should not have gotten the clearance to enter the section, but got it. A technical defect can be ruled out, IMO.


The technical defect was the reason why manual operation was necessary and a mistake during manual operation was (signalling error) was the reason for the accident.


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## KingNick

Like I said, no technical defect caused the accident.


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## Slartibartfas

The technical defect did not "cause" the accident, but without it, it would not have been possible, they way it occurred. Your sharp response towards NiGhtPiSH was not necessary.


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## KingNick

What sharp response? I just stated the switch malfunction did not cause the accident. That is all I said.


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## Slartibartfas

Your response read like his message had been wrong. Yes he was actually talking about a precondition for that accident to happen while you were talking about the narrow definition of the cause. But lets not fill the whole thread with that. I think everything is clarified now.


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## Suburbanist

On another forum I jsut read one of the most stupid lines ever, some cray folks complaining trains these days are easily written off because they are not strong, and that accidents are rare, thus trains should be more rigid so that even if a couple people get bruises or injuries trains survive more crashes as usable ones :bash:

Also people going on knee-jerk reactions saying that EMUs are bad because damage can't be isolated just on a few cars!

For sake, no railway company plans on having accidents as some sort of regular occurrence! At least passenger rail companies on developed countries.


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## rheintram

K_ said:


> This train has no commercial stops in Austria.


Not true. The sleeper train Moscow - Nice stops twice in Austria (Vienna, Innsbruck).


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## K_

rheintram said:


> Not true. The sleeper train Moscow - Nice stops twice in Austria (Vienna, Innsbruck).


Where can I buy a Nice - Innsbruck ticket?


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## Suburbanist

I think you can only buy tickets to/from Russia, not between all combinations possible on stops. No big deal, AFAIK Trenitalia will also not sell you a Milano - Torino ticket on the Paris-Milano train...


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## K_

Suburbanist said:


> I think you can only buy tickets to/from Russia, not between all combinations possible on stops. No big deal, AFAIK Trenitalia will also not sell you a Milano - Torino ticket on the Paris-Milano train...


Well, I thought that there were no commercial stops for this train in Austria, which is why I asked.


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## nachalnik

rheintram said:


> Not true. The sleeper train Moscow - Nice stops twice in Austria (Vienna, Innsbruck).



It stops at Wien Meidling and Villach Hbf, but not at Innsbruck.


The train however can officially not be used for domestic trips within the EU (I assume that RZD has no licence to offer domestic trips within the European Union).


Nachalnik


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## Coccodrillo

^^ Before the closure for works during summer 2012 this train ran through the Brenner, not the Semmering and Tarvisio.


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## Suburbanist

Since European trains companies can't operate domestic services in Russia, it is only fair their train companies are banned from operating such services within European Union as well.


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## Stainless

Suburbanist said:


> Since European trains companies can't operate domestic services in Russia, it is only fair their train companies are banned from operating such services within European Union as well.


If they wanted to, could they set up a holding company in the EU? Seems a waste to drag carriages from France to Austria empty, unless they just add them on as they go.


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## XAN_

Suburbanist said:


> I think you can only buy tickets to/from Russia, not between all combinations possible on stops. No big deal, AFAIK Trenitalia will also not sell you a Milano - Torino ticket on the Paris-Milano train...


Actually, it's not from\to Russia, it's from 1520 mm to 1435 mm or vice versa. Also, there is no rule or law that denies your leaving a train on earlier station. Boarding at later station is formally prohibited, but it's never strictly enforced, so as long as you have a valid ticket you would be able to travel.


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## mcarling

I realize it has been only six weeks since the Vienna Hbf partially opened. I'm wondering when the next partial opening is expected and what more will open then. The next platform (7-8?) seemed to be well along when I was there yesterday. I guess it probably could be put into service this year. Is there a timeline available for planned future progress?


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## ChegiNeni

^^








pic by user Slartibartfas

the yellow area opened in dec 2012, so there is much more to come.
here is the official timeline (translated to english):

http://translate.google.at/translat...en.at/de/Planungen/Zeitplan/index.jsp&act=url

Completion will be end of 2014/beginning of 2015.

a picture showing the other side of the construction site:









pic by user Lexxus2010

a complete overview of the station


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## mcarling

Thanks for the pictures and the link. I was hoping for more detail on this:
"2013/2014: Schrittweise Inbetriebnahme der Verkehrsstation"

I already had a good idea what the whole station will be like when it will be completed in 2014/2015. I'm trying to get an idea of the next incremental opening. Does anyone know if the next step will be to open Platforms 7 and 8? Or when that might happen?

I'm also interested in when the underground link between the Hbf and U1 is expected to open.


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## Slartibartfas

^^ Good question. Actually the full opening of the complete rail infrastructure around it will be in 2015, that is when the whole station will be in full operation but as I understand it the complete station will be opened in late 2014 already. I have no informaton of possible partial openings in between but as far as I know the big changes in international connections won't occur before 2014, including the use of the Lainzer tunnel.


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## mcarling

I can report that the installation of glass into the structures between platforms 7 and 8 has begun, but as yet no rails have been laid adjacent to 7 and 8.


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## nachalnik

Some recent pics of Vienna main station:
https://picasaweb.google.com/114135595459501769824/WienHbf?authkey=Gv1sRgCNrojI_fpd3nPw#

Samples:





































The current operation concept will remain untill Dec 2014. Only then more platforms will be available for trains coming from Wien Meidling, and most long distance services will use Wien Hbf then.
The station will be fully operational in Dec 2015.


Nachalnik


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## mcarling

nachalnik said:


> The current operation concept will remain untill Dec 2014. Only then more platforms will be available for trains coming from Wien Meidling, and most long distance services will use Wien Hbf then.
> The station will be fully operational in Dec 2015.


Perhaps I misunderstood the German: "2013/2014: Schrittweise Inbetriebnahme der Verkehrsstation"
I thought that means incremental openings during 2013 and 2014. No?

Thanks for the photos. From the same collection, here is a photo showing future platforms 7 and 8 (on the left):


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## Hubert Pollak

nachalnik said:


> It stops at Wien Meidling and Villach Hbf, but not at Innsbruck.
> 
> 
> The train however can officially not be used for domestic trips within the EU (I assume that RZD has no licence to offer domestic trips within the European Union).


It's not true. Poland is in EU and you can buy ticket for that train.

There is no problem to buy tickets for this train from Poland to any European country. You can buy it personally on Warsaw Centralna station (in PKP Intercity COK - customer service center in the station hall).

Here is even official info about that http://intercity.pl/pl/site/o-firmi...daz-biletow-na-pociagi-do-paryza-i-nicei.html


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## KingNick

Update on the 32,9 km Koralm Tunnel construction:

Everything is set up and the two TBMs "Mauli 1" and "Mauli 2" are ready to go. Mauli 1 starts drilling tomorrow and Mauli 2 should follow within a couple of weeks. The breakthrough is estimated to happen in 2016.



> Jetzt legen die "Maulis" los
> *Am Dienstag lassen die ÖBB im Koralmtunnel zwei Kraftlackel los: Tunnelbohrer mit je fast 10.900 PS - es handelt sich um die stärksten Baumaschinen Österreichs.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Die Tunnelbohrer sind die stärksten Baumaschinen Österreichs Foto © KANIZAJ
> 
> Der Blick in den Schacht lässt die Knie weich werden. 45 Meter ist er breit und 60 Meter tief. "Das Elisabethhochhaus in Graz würde da hineinpassen", sagt Gerhard Harer, ÖBB-Projektleiter auf der Baustelle. Es ist die größte ihrer Art in Europa: Wer vom Rand der Materialschächte im weststeirischen Leibenfeld in die Tiefe schaut, blickt auf den Koralmbahntunnel.
> Unten wartet die Stollenbahn. Die Schmalspur verzichtet auf jeglichen Komfort; ihre Aufgabe ist die Versorgung der Mannschaft. Auf der holprigen Fahrt in den Berg könnte diese Bahn, in der man gerade aufrecht sitzen kann, viele Geschichten erzählen. "Sie war beim Bau des St.-Gotthard-Tunnels in der Schweiz und der Metro in Budapest dabei", erzählt Harer. Nach jedem Einsatz wandern Lok und Waggons zur nächsten Baustelle; nun versehen sie Dienst bei den ÖBB auf dem Weg nach Kärnten.
> 
> Zwei Werke der Superlative
> *Superlative *gibt es beim Koralmtunnel nicht nur bei den Bohrmaschinen. Gewaltig sind auch die Ausmaße der beiden Betonfabriken am Baustellengelände. Das erste Werk ist seit Dezember in Betrieb, das zweite folgt in eineinhalb Monaten. 130.000 Beton-Tübbinge sollen dort im Akkord produziert werden. Jeder dieser konkaven Steine ist etwa fünf Meter lang, zwei Meter breit und rund sieben Tonnen schwer. Sieben Segmente bilden jeweils einen Ring, mit dem der Tunnel ausgeschalt wird. Insgesamt werden für die beiden Tunnelröhren sogar 170.000 Tübbinge benötigt.
> 
> *So gigantisch* die Ausmaße, so gering ist die Toleranz - diese liegt unter einem Millimeter. Acht Stunden dauert es, bis ein Tübbing gegossen und ausgehärtet ist. Dann werden die stahlbewehrten Teile händisch nachbearbeitet, auf Halde gelegt und nach und nach in den Stollen transportiert - eine logistische Herausforderung. "Jeder Stein ist anders geformt", erklärt Projektleiter Gerhard Harer. Ein großer Anteil der Betonzuschlagsstoffe wird übrigens im Koralmstollen gewonnen. Harer: "Wir versuchen, möglichst viele Transporte einzusparen." Der Zement kommt aus Retznei.
> 
> Abrupt hält der Zug vor einer Kaverne. Direkt vor "Mauli 1", dem neuen Star tief unter der Erde. "Mauli 1" und Zwilling "Mauli 2" sind nicht so niedlich, wie der Name, erdacht von Kindern der Volksschule Hollenegg, vermuten lässt. Im Gegenteil, die Tunnelvortriebsmaschinen sind wahre Kraftlackel und bohren sich mit je 8000 kW oder fast 10.900 PS durch den Berg. 45 Sondertransporte waren für jeden der Bohrköpfe nötig, um die Teile von Marburg in Slowenien ins Leibenfeld zu bringen, wo Kräne sie in die Schächte hoben.
> 
> 
> *Es wird angedreht*
> "Mauli 1" in der Südröhre wird am Dienstag offiziell "angedreht", wie es im Fachjargon heißt. Der mit mehr als 70 Rollenmeisel bestückte Bohrkopf wird Meter für Meter Gestein herausbrechen und den Tunnel nach Kärnten vortreiben. 20 bis 30 Meter pro Tag werden es im Durchschnitt sein, schätzt Harer. Dieses Tempo spricht im Vergleich zum konventionellen Sprengen klar für die Bohrer.
> Das Ausbruchmaterial wird auf Förderbändern ins Freie gebracht und deponiert. Ein Teil kommt als Rohstoff für die Tunnelverkleidung aus Beton (sogenannte Tübbinge) wieder in den Berg zurück. Sie werden hinter dem Bohrkopf, im Schutz eines Stahlschildes, auf der Tunnelwand verschraubt, die Hohlräume mit Perlkies aufgefüllt. "Das ist eine Hochleistungsfabrik unter Tage", sagt Harer über die Maschinen des Herstellers Aker Wirth aus Erkelenz bei Köln.
> Durch Hydraulik bewegen sich die Bohrer vorwärts. Sie verkeilen sich am Berg und schieben sich weiter. All das wird im Leitstand - ein Container auf "Maulis" Rücken - mittels einer Steuersoftware überwacht. Ein Fadenkreuz zeigt an, ob der Bohrer auf Kurs bleibt. Harer: "Die Toleranz auf 33 Kilometer Tunnel beträgt genau 15 Zentimeter Abweichung." Frühestens im Jahr 2015 kommt eine Tunnelbohrmaschine auch von der Kärntner Seite zum Einsatz. Der geplante Durchschlag ist 2016.


http://www.kleinezeitung.at/nachrichten/politik/koralm/3230259/jetzt-legen-maulis-los.story

Graphic of the whole TBM set-up: http://www.kleinezeitung.at/system/galleries/upload/0/6/3/3230259/koralmbohr.pdf


----------



## rheintram

nachalnik said:


> It stops at Wien Meidling and Villach Hbf, but not at Innsbruck.
> 
> 
> The train however can officially not be used for domestic trips within the EU (I assume that RZD has no licence to offer domestic trips within the European Union).
> 
> 
> Nachalnik


You are wrong, the train to Nice stopped in Innsbruck and not in Villach. It doesn't seem to run currently, but even the RZD site says so:

Smolensk
Minsk
Brest
Warsaw
Vienna
Innsbruck
Bolzano
Milan
Genoa
San-Remo

I have seen it with my own eyes. RZD makes no mention of Villach on their website. So I wonder where you've got that information from.

edit: Okay, on the Russian site it shows another route via Villach: http://www.poezd-moskva-nicca.ru/page/raspisanie_moskva_nicca.html
I wonder why they changed the route? According to the English RZD homepage the train went through Innsbruck just a month ago.


----------



## KingNick

Nope, he is right. The train is currently running via Villach:

http://www.uic.org/IMG/pdf/information_rzd_2012-2013_stand_09_12_12_.pdf (Page 11)


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## mcarling

I spent about 30 minutes this afternoon at the Vienna Central Station watching the construction from different vantage points. I can say that Platforms 7/8 are much further along than Platforms 3/4 and 5/6. Platforms 3/4 and 5/6 seem to be progressing in parallel. I guess Platforms 7/8 will open in 2013 and Platforms 3/4 and 5/6 will probably open together in 2014. I have no idea when the underground connection to the U1 and S-bahn will open, but I suspect not before Platforms 7/8.

The critical path for opening Platforms 7/8 seems perhaps to be the overpass over Laxenburgerstr. which is now being extended. Months of work remain before track can be laid from Platforms 7/8 over Laxenburgerstr.


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## KingNick

The thing about 7/8 is that they are operational wise not needed before December 2014, so I highly doubt they'll enter service before that.


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## mcarling

KingNick said:


> The thing about 7/8 is that they are operational wise not needed before December 2014, so I highly doubt they'll enter service before that.


What should happen in December 2014 to raise the operation need from four platforms to ten? My experience has been occasional arrival delays waiting for a free platform at Vienna Central Station.


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## KingNick

Long distance trains from Meidling and Westbahnhof will also stop there in 2014. Until then 3 platform edges should be enough.


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## mcarling

International trains from Meidling already stop at Vienna Central Station, for example, Meidling - Vienna Central Station - ... - Bratislava.

I seem to recall reading something about a tunnel under construction. Is that to connect Vienna Central Station to Vienna Westbahnhof?


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## hhouse

mcarling said:


> International trains from Meidling already stop at Vienna Central Station, for example, Meidling - Vienna Central Station - ... - Bratislava.


That are just regional trains, no higher-class trains like IC, EC and RJ... So there isn't that much traffic going on right now in the partly opened station.



> I seem to recall reading something about a tunnel under construction. Is that to connect Vienna Central Station to Vienna Westbahnhof?


I think you mean the Lainzer Tunnel... http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lainzer_Tunnel At the moment it's mostly used by freight trains and if I remember it right, there's only one night train using that tunnel right now?! (the Munich-Budapest EuroNight?!) And no, it's no connection between Hauptbahnhof and Westbahnhof, but between Hauptbahnhof and the Western railway going to Salzburg/Munich (there was already before a connection, but that one has only a single-track).


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## KingNick

The Munich - Budapest EN is definitely not using the Lainzer Tunnel (apart of the switch hall Hadersdorf) since it stops at Hütteldorf.


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## mcarling

Yes, thank you hhouse! I was probably thinking of the Lainzer Tunnel. So, if the Lainzer Tunnel is not the bottleneck and its full exploitation is waiting for the Vienna Central Station, then I see no reason not to open Platforms 7/8 when they are ready. The OBB might want to switch some trains from Vienna Westbahnhof even if they will not yet be able to switch all of them.

I'll next be in Vienna in mid-March and then I'll try to see what progress I can identify at Vienna Central Station.


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## KingNick

The bottleneck are the tracks westwards of the station. Currently most of them are being removed and rearranged. Further it doesn't make much sense to partially change the destination of the long distance trains from Westbahnhof, since it would just confuse the people and quite frankly the new Hauptbahnhof is lacking lots of things an international railway station has to offer (shops, underground connection to the subway a.s.o.). I think it's wise to wait until 2014 when everything is finished and open up at once.


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## vitacit

ok then. excuse me for treating your comment in a bad way.
yes, petrzalka (engerau) is far better and nice than main station. it's just shame that petrzalka station is used for trains to wien only. it has big potential for the southbound route to budapest via gyor, for the trains to the other parts of europe (for example munich, venezia frankfurt for the beginning....)



Slartibartfas said:


> Are you talking with me? I was not sarcastic. But you are right, I also prefer stanica Petrzalka. I have already walked the way to the center from there as well. They created a pretty neat path for that end as well. Not to forget that the train is faster as well when you go to Petrzalka and the station is nicer.


----------



## nachalnik

Last weekend I did a small trip to the mountains near Mariazell. 
To get there I used the narrow-gauge "Mariazellerbahn".
The "Mariazellerbahn" is an electrified 760mm-gauge line from St. Pölten to Mariazell. It is operated by NÖVOG since dec 2010, before it was operated by ÖBB. 
Trains run hourly (less frequent on weekends) till Laubenbachmühle (49 km from St. Pölten), 5-6 trains per day continue to Mariazell (85 km from St. Pölten).

Some photos:

St. Pölten dep 10h35 on last friday (in fact 4minutes delayed due to delayed arrival of the connecting IC-service from Vienna - I came with this train too):


















The 1st of 9 new EMU's on a test run:









Station Laubenbachmühle:









"Laubenbachmühle 21":










Station Winterbach - not really in Switzerland:









Punctual arrival in Mariazell at 13h10 - after 2,5 hrs for 85 km:









Some non-rail-related pics the winter landscape - the actual reason of the trip:



























Way back on sunday:



























The class 1099 locomotives are in service since 1911. Allthough they were upgraded in the 1950ies the basic technical parts (like motor) are still from 1911...



















My next ride on the Mariazellerbahn will probably already be with the new vehicles:



































































































Winter also between the carriages:









High-tech heating system:



























Arrival at St. Pölten Hbf:









After 2,5 hrs for 85 km with a top speed of 50 km/h, the last 60 km to Vienna took me just 30 minutes with a top-speed of 200 km/h.




Nachalnik


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## KingNick

Suburbanist said:


> A pity they came up with a new loco instead of a new EMU!!! I think EMUs are quite the future of long-distance transportation.


Well, the thing is, ÖBB had plenty (too many actually) of those Eurosprinters driving around already, that it made just perfect sense for them to use some push-pull configurations instead of EMUs.

I am pretty sure as well that Brenner Base Tunnel gets built. They invested a shitload of money already and the EU is very keen on getting it done, especially since Germany guaranteed a decent connection to the Austrian border.


----------



## Iwan

KingNick said:


> To my knowledge Praha - Brno is upgraded for speeds up to 200 km/h


In Czech Republic Vmax = 160km/h.


----------



## Slartibartfas

Excuse me if I should have missed it above, but is the Railjet going to be any faster between Vienna and Praha, compared to the fastest existing connection? It probably will be faster for Graz-Praha, will it?


----------



## KingNick

Yes, it will. According to Nachalnik travel time is going to be around 4:15 whereas the fastest connection at this point is 4:49.


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## Slartibartfas

I couldn't find any details in previous posts. But currently you need 4:31 from Wien Praterstern. I don't know if a future Railjet Graz-Wien-Praha would stop there but other than departing from a different location (Hbf instead of Westbahnhof), what exactly would possibly reduce driving time?


----------



## dan72

Is it because it stops at less stations on the way or that the railjet can go faster than tradiotional trains?


----------



## KingNick

To be honest, I have no clue, how they'll do it, but I trust the user Nachalnik. He knows really a lot about all the matters involved here.


----------



## nachalnik

Regarding the Vienna - Prague travel time:

Current travel time from Wien Meidling to Praha is 4h49 (eg dep 12h32- arr 17h21). This applies for most trains.
There is just one single train originating at Wien Praterstern with a travel time of 4h31.

From 2015 on the travel time from Wien Hbf will be something like 4h15. 

The reduction is possible due to several different facts:

- the current path in Austria (Wien Meidling - Breclav 1h21) has a lot of buffer time, which is necessary for the current timetable structure for the construction period of Vienna main station. This timetable structure was implemented in 2010, when the main construction work started.
Before that the travel time from Wien Südbahnhof to Breclav was 57min (without intermediate stops). A similar travel time will be again possible in 2015 between Wien Hbf and Breclav.

- stopping time in Breclav can be reduced from 13 to just a few minutes.

- this will make a much later departure from Wien Hbf (compared to today's departure time from Wien Meidling) possible, and this enables to connect the Prague-services with the trains from Graz (which currently arrive to Vienna hourly at around the full hour; the timetable south of Vienna from/to Graz probably won't change that much in the near future) and form a 2-hourly line Graz Hbf - Wien Hbf - Praha hl. n..

- the timings between Breclav and Praha probably won't change much as well, but a travel time of 4h15 (maybe 4h10 after some ongoing track renovation works in Czech Republic will be finished) is realistic anyway in 2015.


In the further future an 160 km/h-upgrade of the line from Vienna to Breclav as well as further upgrades in Czech Reoublic should help to reach a travel time of under 4 hrs.


Nachalnik


----------



## Slartibartfas

Thanks a lot Nachalnik.

I have one remaining question though. How long did it take before construction started, and did the trains leave from Sued-/Ostbahnhof?


----------



## nachalnik

Slartibartfas said:


> Thanks a lot Nachalnik.
> 
> I have one remaining question though. How long did it take before construction started, and did the trains leave from Sued-/Ostbahnhof?



Travel time was 4h31 in 2009:

The usual path wath like this:
Wien Südbf .58
Breclav .55/.04
Brno .39/.41
Praha Holesovice .29

Howevere, there were also 2 Pendolino-trains with a travel time of just 4h03 from Wien Südbahnhof to Praha hl n.
Wien Südbf 10h58/15h58 - Praha hln 15h01/20h01 (Breclav .55/.57 - Brno .30/.32).

But the shorter travel times (enabled by tilting-technology) of the Pendolino-trains didn't really fit into the timetable structure, so they were later replaced by ordinary EC-trains.


----------



## inundační šachtička

I dont think the upgrade of Vienna-Breclav line is in the further future. From what i have read, the modernisation is currently underway and will have finished by december this year. That includes (among others) implementation of ETCS L2 and increased speed from 120 to 160km/h.

http://www.ots.at/presseaussendung/...nordbahn-bekommt-modernes-zugsicherungssystem


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## nachalnik

inundační šachtička;102352958 said:


> I dont think the upgrade of Vienna-Breclav line is in the further future. From what i have read, the modernisation is currently underway and will have finished by december this year. That includes (among others) implementation of ETCS L2 and increased speed from 120 to 160km/h.
> 
> http://www.ots.at/presseaussendung/...nordbahn-bekommt-modernes-zugsicherungssystem




No, currently just the implemetation of ETCS is being done.

The upgrade to 160 km/h has nothing to do with ETCS (ETCS is not necessary to run at that speed), but requires new tracks and new catenary.
This will be done step by step: If tracks on a certain section need to be replaced, they will be replaced by tracks suitable for 160 km/h. But it will take some years, untill this process is finished for the whole line.
The 160 km/h-upgrade is not needed for the planned railjet-connection from 12/2014, but will enable a further travel time reduction to less than 50 minutes between Wien Hbf and Breclav.

Nachalnik


----------



## o0ink

railjet at Salzburg Main Station:










Please have a look: https://www.facebook.com/FabianLacknerPhotography


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## Sopomon

^^
Oh my god it burns


----------



## Deadeye Reloaded

^^
^^
Best looking train at best looking train station! :drool: kay:


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## Sopomon

Deadeye Reloaded said:


> ^^
> ^^
> Best looking train at best looking train station! :drool: kay:


Were so many photo effects really necessary?

Great shot ruined by over-enthusiastic photoshopping


----------



## XAN_

Sopomon said:


> Were so many photo effects really necessary?
> 
> Great shot ruined by over-enthusiastic photoshopping


Quick! Get in this train! We must outrun shockwave from that nuclear explosion in order to survive!


----------



## Verso

Does anyone know when they will repair the railway between Bleiburg and the Slovenian border? Trains there drive like 20 km/h.


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## nachalnik

Some recent photos of the reconstruction of Graz Hbf:




























More pics at http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=103399232&postcount=144


Nachalnik


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## Zero Gravity

I have noticed that a lot of regional trains running on the Südbahn (near vienna) are using the ÖBB 1044/1144, however, 2-3 years ago they were run exclusively by 1016/1116 locomotives.
Can someone explain to me why that is? Did they reassign the Taurus locs to the railjet program? 

PS: I asked that question in the wrong thread (the one about tunnels) earlier this day, so stupid :bash:


----------



## KingNick

Exclusively by 1016 and 1116? Very unlikely, since Südbahn was always a bastion for 1044/1144 type locos and still is, whereas Tauri were mainly used on Westbahn due to the higher Vmax. Could be that some of the 1116s have been pulled away for RJ-Services though.


----------



## nachalnik

Zero Gravity said:


> I have noticed that a lot of regional trains running on the Südbahn (near vienna) are using the ÖBB 1044/1144, however, 2-3 years ago they were run exclusively by 1016/1116 locomotives.
> Can someone explain to me why that is?


Its due to the fact that the 1x44 are not equipped with ETCS, which is necessary to run trains on the new line Wien - St. Pölten (opened in dec 2012). 
So freight trains which use the new line, can no longer be hauled by 1x44. 


Nachalnik


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## tool2106

Some pictures I shot at Innsbruck Haubtbahnhof:


----------



## tool2106




----------



## Slartibartfas

The ÖBB presented the design of the 100 Desiro ML it has ordered and I like it. They are going to replace the 4020 on S-Bahn and regional train lines. 



















These and more pictures from Die Presse: http://diepresse.com/home/panorama/.../panorama/oesterreich/1448278/index.do&popup=


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## KingNick

Yet again a cold interior design.


----------



## Slartibartfas

^^ Partly true. I wouldn't call red a very cold colour and there is quite a fair dose of it present in the interior. I also like the fact that they introduced limited amounts of wood style surfaces. But you are right that the dominating colours seem to be white, grey and anthracite.


----------



## dan72

How many trains are they ordering?
How many carriages on each train? 3
Whats the cost per train?


----------



## K_

Nice train. But I find it a bit odd that the sets appear to have only one door per carriage. That is strange for a train that is intended for local services.


----------



## KingNick

dan72 said:


> How many trains are they ordering?
> How many carriages on each train? 3
> Whats the cost per train?


100 EMUs, 3 carriages per EMU (replacing the old 4020s), € 5,5m per unit.


----------



## KingNick

K_ said:


> Nice train. But I find it a bit odd that the sets appear to have only one door per carriage. That is strange for a train that is intended for local services.


Has to be a mistake in the rendering. There is no such thing as a Desiro ML with just one door per carriage.


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## dan72

Very good price for similar product in australia we are paying 7.5 million euro per three car unit, difference is alot when you order 100 trains.


----------



## KingNick

dan72 said:


> Very good price for similar product in australia we are paying 7.5 million euro per three car unit, difference is alot when you order 100 trains.


It really is an excellent price and Siemens is not too thrilled about the deal either. Probably the best sign that you got yourself a great deal.


----------



## AlexNL

ÖBB Technical Services will be partly responsible for the assembly of the trains, so that's probably why ÖBB got a good deal with Siemens.

I am really impressed by the pictures, and am curious to see the trains when they've been produced. I don't mind an interior where white and grey are prevalent, there's plenty of red and wood to balance it.


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## dan72

Good to see they will spread the assembly around the country


----------



## Robi_damian

KingNick said:


> Yet again a cold interior design.


I hate Desiro/Flirt/Talent interiors for the most part: the plastic, thin seatsm the wide-spaces that lack any compartimentation and let the cold in. It really is basically a tram, not a proper train.


----------



## Slartibartfas

^^ Nothing wrong for an S-Bahn. For a regional train more compartimentalization might be nice though. I heard that these visuals are for the S-Bahn version and I am not sure how the regional train version is going to look like. They are going to replace 4020er however which don't feature much compartimentalization either.


----------



## rheintram

This renderings show the regional version, not the S-Bahn version.


----------



## webeagle12

ÖBB trials level crossing safety cameras

AUSTRIAN Federal Railways (ÖBB) has installed automatic red light cameras at four level crossings as part of a pilot project which seeks to deter motorists from ignoring crossing signals.

ÖBB says that it has spent around €25m on safety improvements and public awareness campaigns in recent years, and while these measures have been successful the number of casualties remains high. Last year there were 88 collisions at level crossings in Austria, killing 14 people and injuring 45.

The cameras are currently being trialled at four locations in the provinces of Lower Austria, Salzburg, Burgenland, and Carinthia and ÖBB plans to extend the pilot to more level crossings. ÖBB does not have access to the images from the cameras, which record the license plate of the offender, and the data passes automatically to the police for processing.

http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...evel-crossing-safety-cameras.html?channel=542


----------



## Verso

How is widening of the railway between Graz and the Slovenian border to two tracks progressing? Are there any pictures?


----------



## K_

Suburbanist said:


> . Railways in Voralberg are incredibly slow. Even Innsbrück is too far away from Wien.


I'm sure ÖBB would love to build a faster line there. What is keeping you from giving them the money they need?


----------



## augmentedreality

*Construction works of the SBT are expected to continue for the next ten years*



KingNick said:


> Not really. A new permit is going to be issued by the ministry and that's about it. The old permit was annuled purely on procedural grounds, nothing that could not be fixed.


Earlier this year, the Austrian Federal Railways has awarded a *EUR 623 million contract *ATF consortium* to construct the central section of the 27.3km Semmering base tunnel (SBT).*

The consortium includes *Implenia*, a Swiss construction and services company, and Austrian construction company *Swietelsky*. Implenia will serve as the technical lead. *Under the contract, both companies will jointly perform work on the 13km-long middle section of the SBT.*

Expected to be built using both TBM drilling for 8.6km and mining methods for 4.3km, the section involves 26 cross-passages, an emergency stop station and two 400-metre ventilation shafts to supply the entire construction site.

The project is expected to face challenges such as dealing with the geological conditions in the drilling zone, building materials supply, excavated matter removal.

The SBT is a part of Austria's new southern railway and links the country's Lower Austria and Styria regions between the villages of Gloggnitz and Mürzzuschlag. On completion of the tunnel, the section will decrease travel time by half an hour for trains between Vienna and Graz.

*Construction works have been stopped by ÖBB *(due to a judgement of the Higher Administrative Court VwGH) *but are expected to be continued within the next six months.*


----------



## rower2000

Suburbanist said:


> Railways in Voralberg are incredibly slow. Even Innsbrück is too far away from Wien.


No. The main railway line in Vorarlberg is equipped for 140 to 160 km/h between Bregenz and Bludenz. What IS extremely slow is the connection over the Arlberg, with speeds as low as 60 or 70 km/h in many places. Upgrading this connection to higher speed would be a) extremely expensive, and b) extremely difficult. You would, more or less, need another 30 to 40 km long tunnel which is simply not economical for the comparably low traffic potential.

Now Vienna - Innsbruck takes 4:08 h with a direct railjet every two hours. This can easily compete with the travel times by car or by plane!


----------



## augmentedreality

*Cab ride on the 'Arlberg-Bahn'*



rower2000 said:


> ... What IS extremely slow is the connection over the Arlberg, with speeds as low as 60 or 70 km/h in many places. Upgrading this connection to higher speed would be a) extremely expensive, and b) extremely difficult. You would, more or less, need another 30 to 40 km long tunnel which is simply not economical for the comparably low traffic potential ...



Give yourself the gift of a *cab ride on the 'Arlberg-Bahn'*, provided by fuehrerstand's video, taken on *August 4, 2012*:
 *Bludenz (dep. 11:01) - Innsbruck Hbf. (arr. 13:02) * https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7OmRlMR05bs&list=TLgGr7GQKdZGptjnmQMIfjVbCyyWGTg2vw


This fascinating cab ride offers impressive sight through the windshield (the wiper was out of the camera's viewing angle) of locomotive *ÖBB 1116 102*, pulling the passenger train *OIC 867* http://www.vagonweb.cz/razeni/vlak.php?zeme=OeBB&cislo=867&rok=2012&lang=en


----------



## Surel

vitacit said:


> i can't tell you exact speed on slovak side but there is quite heavy tracks reconstruction around devinska nova ves, just across morava river from marchegg. i'm not sure but it should be around 160 km/h (part of corridor to czech republic). to have nonstop wien-bratislava on the double track at 160 via marchegg would be wonderfull.


I don't know if the Slovakian side is 160 km/h to the border with CZ. If it is so, wouldn't connecting Wien via Marchegg to SK also make much quicker connection Wien - Brno possible via the Slovakian tracks?


----------



## nachalnik

Surel said:


> I don't know if the Slovakian side is 160 km/h to the border with CZ. If it is so, wouldn't connecting Wien via Marchegg to SK also make much quicker connection Wien - Brno possible via the Slovakian tracks?



No.

Trains would need to stop and change direction in Devinska Nova Ves.

Also to be considered:

Distance is longer, so a higher speed would be compensated by the longer distance. Wien Stadlau - Breclav is 79 km via direct line, but would be 106 km via Devinska.

Due to the alignment much lower speed limits will probably anyway remain near Kuty and between Lanzhot and Breclav.

The 160 km/h upgrade of he Austrian line is being done within the next 10 years anyway. This will reduce Wien Hbf - Breclav travel time from 56min in 2015 to 47min.


BTW, the time in the mentioned map of 60 minutes between Vienna and Breclav is actually NOT the planned travel time. It is the system time between the two transfer hubs Vienna and Breclav. 

Vienna will be a hub at minute 30, Breclav as well. But that means that trains will depart Wien Hbf a few minutes after .30 and arrive Breclav a few minutes before .30.
For example Wien Hbf dep .38 - Breclav arr .25.

Then Brno can be reached at around .00 (also a perfect hub) , probably Pardubice at .30 and Praha hl n also at .30.


Nachalnik


----------



## augmentedreality

*@ Tauern Railway*

Slovenian Railway Enthusiasts have published a pretty nice report _Tauernbahn (2014-02-18) ... kjer zima dobi pravo vrednost_:





































http://www.vlaki.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=8060&sid=9803ab513bd17aff7e08fd299ace5753

http://s558.photobucket.com/user/cokla1/library/Tauernbahn%2018%20-%2002-%202014?sort=3&page=9


----------



## nachalnik

Some photos showing the current state of the reconstruction of Graz Hbf:


----------



## nachalnik

With the 2014 timetable a new diurect day time train Graz - Zurich was introduced. 
Between Innsbruck and Zurich with this train the 2-hourly takt is now complete. All other trains of this takt are railjet-trains Vienna - Zurich. When the Graz-train runs passengers from/to Vienna can change in Innsbruck, so the 2-hourly takt exists also between Vienna and Zurich.

The Graz - Zurich train is a conventional loco-hauled Eurocity-train. It consists of 6 2nd class cars, a dining car, and 2 1st class cars. Except 1 SBB 1st class car all cars are provied by ÖBB.
On weekends the train has 2 more 2nd class cars.

A similar Graz - Zurich daytime train already existed between 1991 and 1995. 
The new train departs Graz HBf at 9h45 and arrives Zurich HB 19h20. In the other direction it leaves Zuirich bHB at 8h40 and arrives at Graz at 18h14.
The train provides a direct service from Switzerland to many important tourist regions in Austria, such as Kitzbühel, Zell am See or Schladming.

The train on the 1st day of operation (2013-12-15):

























On weekends it happened already often that an additional 1st class car had to be attached, as there are usually many 1st class passengers over the Arlberg pass.
If available SBB provides a Panorama-car as an additional 1st class car. 




































Starting with the 2015 timetable the Panorama-car will be used daily in that train.


Nachalnik


----------



## Verso

nachalnik said:


>


Ljubljana über (via) Graz Hbf? Isn't _this_ Graz Hbf? Nice photos otherwise.


----------



## Surel

nachalnik said:


> No.
> 
> Trains would need to stop and change direction in Devinska Nova Ves.
> 
> Also to be considered:
> 
> Distance is longer, so a higher speed would be compensated by the longer distance. Wien Stadlau - Breclav is 79 km via direct line, but would be 106 km via Devinska.
> 
> Due to the alignment much lower speed limits will probably anyway remain near Kuty and between Lanzhot and Breclav.
> 
> The 160 km/h upgrade of he Austrian line is being done within the next 10 years anyway. This will reduce Wien Hbf - Breclav travel time from 56min in 2015 to 47min.
> 
> 
> BTW, the time in the mentioned map of 60 minutes between Vienna and Breclav is actually NOT the planned travel time. It is the system time between the two transfer hubs Vienna and Breclav.
> 
> Vienna will be a hub at minute 30, Breclav as well. But that means that trains will depart Wien Hbf a few minutes after .30 and arrive Breclav a few minutes before .30.
> For example Wien Hbf dep .38 - Breclav arr .25.
> 
> Then Brno can be reached at around .00 (also a perfect hub) , probably Pardubice at .30 and Praha hl n also at .30.
> 
> 
> Nachalnik


They would not have to turn if there would be a new switch, right? But if OBB will invest in the Wien - Břeclav first there is no reason for it.

Wien - Brno is some 150 km... in my eyes a perfect 1 hour relation, especially when the Brno - Břeclav can be easily upgraded to 200 km. The same could be done in Wien - Břeclav relation.

The Wien - Břeclav hub is not that important in my eyes.

That's the way I would like to see it going. Especially when HSR between Wien - Brno is nowhere in the pipelines in the next 20 years.

So I would rather put the question like this. In what ways would need the track Wien - Břeclav - Brno to be upgraded to allow a one hour relation between Wien and Brno.


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## augmentedreality

Surel said:


> So I would rather put the question like this. In what ways would need the track Wien - Břeclav - Brno to be upgraded to allow a one hour relation between Wien and Brno.


According to the timetable of *EC 70 Gustav Mahler* (runs daily from Wiener Neustadt Hbf. to Praha hl. n.) for the *distance of 139 kilometers* between Wiener Neustadt and Břeclav (CZ) the *time of duration scheduled is 1 hour and 49 minutes,* stop-overs included (Wien Meidling 4 min and Wien Simmering 2 min); additional stop-over in Břeclav is 12 minutes (arr. xx:53, dep. xx:05): 

23 minutes (distance 46 km) Wiener Neustadt - Wien Meidling 
20 minutes (distance 08 km) Wien Meidling - Wien Simmering 
60 minutes (distance 85 km) Wien Simmering - Břeclav (CZ)


----------



## Surel

augmentedreality said:


> According to the timetable of *EC 70 Gustav Mahler* (runs daily from Wiener Neustadt Hbf. to Praha hl. n.) for the *distance of 138 kilometers* between Wiener Neustadt and Břeclav (CZ) the *time of duration scheduled is 1 hour and 49 minutes,* stop-overs included (Wien Meidling 4 min and Wien Simmering 2 min); additional stop-over in Břeclav is 12 minutes (arr. xx:53, dep. xx:05):
> 
> 23 minutes (distance 46 km) Wiener Neustadt - Wien Meidling
> 20 minutes (distance 07 km) Wien Meidling - Wien Simmering
> 60 minutes (distance 85 km) Wien Simmering - Břeclav (CZ)



The distance Wien Meidling (New Hbhf is between Meidling and Simmering) - Brno is exactly 160 km. Wiener Neustadt is irrelevant. Most of the EC take a minute more or less than 2 hours, the Brno - Wien relation taking on average bit shorter time.

The point is, that this should be doable in one hour instead of two, and the question is, what track standard would be needed on both sides in order to achieve this relation in one hour.


Right now the Brno - Břeclav track is 59 kms long and takes 34 minutes. The Wien Meidling - Břeclav is 101 kms and takes 82 minutes for the fastest trains (http://jizdnirady.idnes.cz/draha/?p...g7mFPSWvKiSZohkNknb:uycTGmuqT6xCunmLMBl8Za:rm).

The Wien Hbf will be some 93 km, the train will not have to stop at Simmering and can go directly Wien Hbf - Břeclav.

Now if we want to have Wien Hbf - Brno in around 60 minutes, what kind of upgrade of the tracks would be needed to secure this, counting with a 3 minutes stop in Břeclav.

I believe that upgrade of the Brno - Břeclav track (I am guessing this could cost around 100 mil €, as there is not much to do, just one level crossing there) to 200 km/h can save around 4-5 minutes. Upgrade of the Wien - Břeclav track could get us? I think that if the track would allow 200 km/h we could get to under 45 minutes for the Wien Hbf - Břeclav.

Would it be enough for one hour tack? (some 75 minutes)

What if we upgraded the track to 230 km/h instead (max speed of Railjet and Pendolino)


I think that whoever is busy with planning this track should think about this, especially when the Wien - Břeclav track is going to be upgraded anyway.


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## rower2000

Surel said:


> I believe that upgrade of the Brno - Břeclav track (I am guessing this could cost around 100 mil €, as there is not much to do, just one level crossing there) to 200 km/h can save around 4-5 minutes. Upgrade of the Wien - Břeclav track could get us? I think that if the track would allow 200 km/h we could get to under 45 minutes for the Wien Hbf - Břeclav.
> 
> Would it be enough for one hour tack? (some 75 minutes)
> 
> What if we upgraded the track to 230 km/h instead (max speed of Railjet and Pendolino)
> 
> 
> I think that whoever is busy with planning this track should think about this, especially when the Wien - Břeclav track is going to be upgraded anyway.


An added problem is that the whole gain in time would have to be realized between Süßenbrunn and Breclav or even Straßhof and Breclav. If you upgraded Brno-Breclav to 200 km/h over most stretches such that you'd have an average speed of 170 km/h between the cities, that would result in a travel time of 21 min. Add 3 min stop in Breclav. This would result in a target travel time of about 32 min for Vienna main station to Breclav. The 16 km from Vienna main to Süßenbrunn are very difficult - not to say impossible - to upgrade (within built-up areas) and will stay with a 80 km/h limit. Thus, it would already take 12 min until the start of the HSL is reached, leaving 20 min target time for Süßenbrunn - Breclav, or 70 km. Thus, the average speed would have to be 210 km/h which might just be doable with a 230 km/h line. However, the line would have to follow its existing track (no elongation by bypassing towns along the line possible as this would make the line longer) and this could result in significant NIMBY-ism in the towns along the line.

I agree that Vienna - Brno in one hour would be nice to have, but I don't think I'll live to see it...


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## nachalnik

These are the potential time-saving measures between Wien Hbf and Breclav:

Breclav - Gänserndorf 160 km/h upgrade: 7,1 min 
Breclav - Gänserndorf 200 km/h upgrade: 3,8 min (compared to 160 km/h)
Breclav - Gänserndorf 230 km/h upgrade: 1,8min (compared to 200 km/h)
Gänserndorf - Süssenbrunn 160 km/h upgrade: 2,3 min (higher speeds are a no-go here for capacity reasons, as this section also has frequent suburban trains)
New Süssenbrunn junction for 100 Km/h instead of 50/60 km/h: 2,3min
Süssenbrunn junction - Wien Stadlau 160 km/h: 0,5min

Between Wien Stadlau and Wien Hbf the alignment cannot be changed, so the current speed limits are fixed.


Possible travel time on current infrastructure is 56min.

The max. total time saving with all measures would be ~18 minutes, so 38minutes could be achieved.
However, these measures cost much more than the planned 160 km/h-upgrade Breclav - Süssenbrunn. As it was agreed with the Czech side that the hub structure shall be Brno - 30 - Breclav - 60 - Wien, and as a travel time of less than 60 minutes between Brnbo and Wien is unreachable anyway, a travel time of 47min will be sufficient between Wien and Breclav.



Nachalnik


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## Surel

nachalnik said:


> These are the potential time-saving measures between Wien Hbf and Breclav:
> 
> Breclav - Gänserndorf 160 km/h upgrade: 7,1 min
> Breclav - Gänserndorf 200 km/h upgrade: 3,8 min (compared to 160 km/h)
> Breclav - Gänserndorf 230 km/h upgrade: 1,8min (compared to 200 km/h)
> Gänserndorf - Süssenbrunn 160 km/h upgrade: 2,3 min (higher speeds are a no-go here for capacity reasons, as this section also has frequent suburban trains)
> New Süssenbrunn junction for 100 Km/h instead of 50/60 km/h: 2,3min
> Süssenbrunn junction - Wien Stadlau 160 km/h: 0,5min
> 
> Between Wien Stadlau and Wien Hbf the alignment cannot be changed, so the current speed limits are fixed.
> 
> 
> Possible travel time on current infrastructure is 56min.
> 
> The max. total time saving with all measures would be ~18 minutes, so 38minutes could be achieved.
> However, these measures cost much more than the planned 160 km/h-upgrade Breclav - Süssenbrunn. As it was agreed with the Czech side that the hub structure shall be Brno - 30 - Breclav - 60 - Wien, and as a travel time of less than 60 minutes between Brnbo and Wien is unreachable anyway, a travel time of 47min will be sufficient between Wien and Breclav.
> 
> Nachalnik


Ty.

Then the question is whether this upgrade is needed at all (as the times would allow for 90 minutes already), and if it wouldn't it be better to concentrate on the HSR between Wien and Brno.


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## nachalnik

Surel said:


> Ty.
> 
> Then the question is whether this upgrade is needed at all (as the times would allow for 90 minutes already),


90minutes is not enough.

To connect with trains to the west/south the trains from Praha shall arrive at Wien Hbf at .52 or .22, but not later. 
So if trains depart from Brno a few minutes after the full/half hour, a net travel time of ~80 minutes is needed (not to be mixed with the 90minute system time between the transfer hubs).

If a travel time of under 30minutes (26-28minutes) from Wien Hbf to the next hubs at St. Pölten and Wr Neustadt was possible, then a arrival time from the east/north at .27/.57 would be OK.
But that's not the case, so trains from the east/north will have to arrive at about .22/.52.
Departure minute towards south/west from Hbf will be slightly before .00/.30 and the connection south-west will be made at Meidling.


Nachalnik


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## augmentedreality

*@ Reconstruction of Graz Hbf - Webcams*

Webcams showing the current state of the reconstruction of Graz Hbf (project name 'Graz Hauptbahnhof 2020').

*Graz Hbf NVD - streetcar stop (underground) - bus stop (street level) *










http://www.bergfex.at/sommer/graz/webcams/c3233/

*Graz Hbf - railway underpass (westbound ramp to the tram tunnel) *










*Graz Hbf - building site - platforms and new roof (still under construction)*










http://www.bergfex.at/sommer/graz/webcams/c3239/










http://www.bergfex.at/sommer/graz/webcams/c3240/


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## JavCo17

:hi: Hi


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## augmentedreality

_*Styria* (*Steiermark*) is a federal state (Bundesland), located in the southeast of Austria. In area it is covering 16,401 km². It borders Slovenia as well as six other Austrian states. *The population (as of 2013) was 1,211,000. The capital city is Graz (265,000 inhabitants).*_

* With the start of operation of the S-Bahn (suburban railway) Styria on 9 December 2007, the first stage of the largest suburban transport project in the history of Styria was realised.*

* The S-Bahn project was initiated by the Federal State of Styria and ÖBB and realised by the Styrian railway undertakings.* Unlike Vienna's S-Bahn it is not operated by a single transport agency, but rather based on existing suburban and regional railways, operated by three different companies. Putting in operation the S-Bahn system was a major challenge - about 150 additional train connections on working days from and to Graz were established.

*The introduction of the S-Bahn (suburban railway) system was a great success.* Not only seen in the increase since 2007 (+ 58% passengers per day) and in the number of passengers daily (about 42.500 per day), but also in the improving attitude towards public transport as a whole.

*The introduction of the S-Bahn (suburban railway) has been accompanied by a marketing campaign.* A manual, "How to use public transport", was produced and sent to every household in the catchments area of the rapid-transit railway together with the timetable.

And, last but not least, *on the S-Bahn (suburban railway) website, a fare saving calculator showed people how much money they could save* by going by train instead of going by car. More people do without a car and thus not only go easy on the environment, but also on their purse.

*S-Bahn (suburban railway), this means a dense traffic offered on various lines. * Starting to / from Graz, early in the morning, there are trains at least every hour until midnight and beyond. The trains run every 15 to 30 minutes during the peak hours.

*It is mandatory to hold a valid ticket in local lines (REX, R, S-Bahn).*

*Federal Austrian Railways (ÖBB) operates 4 S-Bahn routes in Styria:*
*S1* Graz - Frohnleiten - Bruck/Mur [dur. 48 minutes]
*S3* Graz - Gleisdorf - Feldbach - Fehring (- Jennersdorf - Szentgotthárd HU) [dur. 98 minutes]
*S5* Graz - Leibnitz - Spielfeld-Straß [dur. 52 minutes]
*(S5) / S51* (Graz) - Spielfeld-Straß - Bad Radkersburg [dur. 90 minutes]





































*additional 3 S-Bahn lines are served by the Graz-Köflach Railway (GKB):*
*S6* Graz - Werndorf - Hengsberg - Deutschlandsberg - Wies [dur. 65 minutes] 
*S61* Graz - Lieboch - Wettmannstätten - Deutschlandsberg - Wies [dur. 82 minutes]
*S7* Graz - Lieboch - Voitsberg - Köflach [dur. 52 minutes]




























*additional 2 S-Bahn lines are served by the Styrian Federal Railways (StLB):*
*(S1) / S11* (Graz) - Peggau - Übelbach [dur. 43 minutes]
*(S3) / S31* (Graz) - Gleisdorf - Weiz [dur. 60 minutes]





































*The project S-Bahn Styria has already received several awards.* Because the attractive connections thanks to synchronised timetables, modern trains and short journey times in the conurbation Graz are exemplary on an international level. Many people now are encouraged to go by train to work or travel to their leisure destinations by public transport.

http://www.oebb.at/de/Reisen_in_Oesterreich/Steiermark/Angebote_u._Produkte/S-Bahn/S-Bahn_Stmk-Netzplan.pdf

*This thread, released December 15, 2010, is dedicated to public transport in Graz*:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1278959


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## Rombi

I wish we would have such a well developed railway network around main metropolises.
They are currently implemented metropolitan railway construction around Łódź and Tricity.


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## rheintram

The timetable map that was posted a few pages ago is quite interesting and it shows the poor connection between Munich and Zurich...

Switzerland and Austria are very well connected via local trains on the Bregenz - St. Margrethen corridor. Currently S-Bahn trains are running every half an hour most of the day (except for hourly services late morning to noon and in late evening). From 2016 it should be a 30 min service throughout the day, with hourly trains running directly from St. Gallen to Bregenz (or even Lindau). Long distance trains on this corridor are entirely different story. They are operated by DB/SBB - very poorly, due to the bad railway infrastructure between Lindau and Munich... Now DB/SBB even operate InterCity buses between Zurich and Munich, which pass through Vorarlberg, but do not stop.

The Feldkirch-Buchs corridor is currently served bi-hourly by long distance trains and irregularly by local trains. By 2017 we will see a major improvement in local connections, as by then S-Bahn FLACH should be (partially implemented) i.e. hourly services off-peak, half-hourly services on-peak.


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## rower2000

rheintram said:


> The timetable map that was posted a few pages ago is quite interesting and it shows the poor connection between Munich and Zurich...


But the map already shows the upgraded connections between Munich and Zurich, with a travel time of 3.5 hours between the cities, doesn't it (90 min Zurich - Bregenz, 120 min Bregenz - Munich)? Right now we have around 4:25 h for this connection. Also note that the electrification of Lindau-Geltendorf shifts the fastest route from Bregenz to Vienna from the Arlbergbahn to a connection via Munich. This is also reflected in the chart attached to the map (6:22 h Bregenz - Vienna via Munich).


rheintram said:


> Switzerland and Austria are very well connected via local trains on the Bregenz - St. Margrethen corridor. Currently S-Bahn trains are running every half an hour most of the day (except for hourly services late morning to noon and in late evening). From 2016 it should be a 30 min service throughout the day, with hourly trains running directly from St. Gallen to Bregenz (or even Lindau).


Do you have any idea why this was delayed to 2016? I think one year ago they said the direct trains Bregenz-St. Gallen should be introduced with the 2014 timetable!


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## nachalnik

Some nice photos from the construction site of Wien Hbf (Vienna main station) have recently been published at http://hauptbahnhof-wien.at/de/Service/Bildergalerien/Auf_der_Baustelle/index.jsp


View from the south-east:




View towards south-east:




View towards west (direction Wien Miedling)


Fly-over for trains going from Wien Hbf in direction Ebenfurth:


View from the west towards Wien Hbf:



Full size and more photos available at http://hauptbahnhof-wien.at/de/Service/Bildergalerien/Auf_der_Baustelle/index.jsp


For comparison, the same location a few years ago:



Nachalnik


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## dimlys1994

nachalnik said:


> Some nice photos from the construction site of Wien Hbf (Vienna main station) have recently been published at http://hauptbahnhof-wien.at/de/Service/Bildergalerien/Auf_der_Baustelle/index.jsp
> 
> Nachalnik


Very nice photos, but I'm afraid they are repeated twitch in this post. It looks very strange, isn't it?


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## nachalnik

dimlys1994 said:


> Very nice photos, but I'm afraid they are repeated twitch in this post. It looks very strange, isn't it?


Thanks for the hint, I just fixed it.


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## BPPublicFan

Here are some of my photos taken in Salzburg Hauptbahnhof on April 23:


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## augmentedreality

*Quartier Belvedere Central*



nachalnik said:


> Some nice photos from the construction site of Wien Hbf (Vienna main station) have recently been published at
> http://hauptbahnhof-wien.at/de/Service/Bildergalerien/Auf_der_Baustelle/index.jsp
> 
> View from the south-east:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View towards south-east:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For comparison, the same location a few years ago:
> 
> 
> Nachalnik


*@ Quartier Belvedere*
Covering 25 hectares, Quartier Belvedere is a new city district, quite unique due to its closeness to the centre of Vienna. The whole quarter is the chance of a century in terms of urban development. Thanks to its location at the new Vienna Main Station, thousands of tourists, travellers and commuters will daily arrive, depart and pass through Quartier Belvedere.

http://www.qbc.at/en/qbc/










https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd....970_503256206447354_3536689155700305464_n.png


Copyright by PatrickHansy


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## dimlys1994

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/policy/single-view/view/westbahn-quits-cer.html
> 
> *Westbahn quits CER*
> 13 May 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EUROPE: Austrian open access inter-city operator Westbahn Management GmbH has decided to ‘distance itself’ from the Community of European Railway & Infrastructure Companies, accusing CER of attempting to block liberalisation and market opening in the European rail sector. ‘CER is more and more against the overall vision of the EU Commission, and therefore Westbahn can no longer remain in the CER’, said Westbahn CEO Dr Erich Forster.
> 
> Notifying CER of its withdrawal on May 9, the company said ‘the last few months have shown that the basic attitude and methods of CER do not conform with the expectations of Westbahn with regards the issues of lobbying and democracy. In addition, newcomers do not get any opportunity to shape the orientation of the rail sector in the direction of liberalisation.’
> 
> Westbahn says it joined CER in late 2011 ‘with the aim of bringing more awareness of competition and liberalisation into the monopolistic thinking of CER, to develop ways of opening the market in partnership with the European Commission.’ However, the private operator feels that ‘only certain incumbents provide direction and do not aim at liberalisation and market opening’. This, it says, was ‘glaringly obvious’ in connection with the voting on the Fourth Railway Package in the European Parliament, where CER supported changes to the compromises agreed at the TRAN Committee.
> 
> Westbahn says it represents a ‘different understanding [from CER] with regards to the rapid implementation’ of the package. Given that the EU has been working for years towards ‘a liberalisation of policies in all Member States’ it feels that national transport ministers ‘should help to emancipate the incumbents and old railway companies’, rather than resisting change. ‘Incumbents are primarily interested in preserving the existence of their benefits at any cost’, but ‘this is not future-proof and massively harms the railway industry’.
> 
> Westbahn believes that ‘CER needs a totally new strategy, with the aim of supporting further policy initiatives at EU level in order to finalise the liberalisation instead of hindering it.’ As well as ‘a reduction in taxpayer burden that would be facilitated by further liberalisation and competition in the rail sector, Westbahn says ‘further innovation’ would help to minimise the environmental impact of the transport sector as a whole


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## nachalnik

Some recent photos showing the progress at Graz main station:













And here some photos from Wien Hbf (Vienna main station), which show the new pedestrian connection between the underground and S-Bahn station and the train actual station:









Nachalnik


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## augmentedreality

*Reconstruction of Graz Hbf - Webcams*



nachalnik said:


> Some recent photos showing the progress at Graz main station:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nachalnik


*Reconstruction of Graz Hbf - Webcams*



















http://www.bergfex.at/sommer/graz/webcams/c3239/?archive=1 *progress of construction work (in retrospect)*



















http://www.bergfex.at/sommer/graz/webcams/c3240/?archive=1 *progress of construction work (in retrospect)*


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## cz

*Graz main train station - platform area reconfiguration *

The main station of Graz will be reorganised and reconfigured as part of a larger infrastructure project. A new pedestrian tunnel will be built consecutive with the rail and platform alterations to connect the west and east parts of the city, and the roofing over the platform area will be renewed. The new tunnel "north" is designed with an artwork of Peter Kogler and a length of 150 meters and gives the underpass the flair of an art exhibition. A large roof will span three platforms with a double-arch construction and provide the spacious atmosphere Graz’s main station requires.

Zechner & Zechner architects in collaboration with PUG and Zivilingenieurbüro Kratzer.
http://www.zechner.com


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## nachalnik

Yesterday ÖBB released the plans for the re-organization of long-distance trains after completion of the new Vienna main station (Wien Hauptbahnhof (Hbf)).
Press release: http://konzern.oebb.at/de/Presse/Presseinformationen/2014_06_10_Wien_Hauptbahnhof/index.jsp


The re-organization will take place in two steps:
step 1 - provisional timetable 2015, when the new station will already allow stops of certain long-distance trains
step 2 - final timetable 2016, when the new station will be fully operational

Overview:

Source: http://kurier.at/chronik/wien/hauptbahnhof-nimmt-fahrt-auf/69.730.654


*Step 1 (timetable 2015, from dec 2014): *

railjet Vienna - Villach (every 2 hours)
trains will start/terminate at Wien Hbf, Wien Meidling will remain as a short stop.

railjet Vienna - Graz (every hour)
trains will start/terminate at Wien Hbf; every 2 hrs these trains will come from/continue to Prague. Wien Meidling will remain as a short stop.
Travel time Wien Hbf - Prague will be 4h11 (instead of today 4h49 from Meidling)

railet Munich - Vienna - Budapest (every 2 hrs)
these trains will still run via Westbahnhof, but they will make an additional stop at the new main station.

ICE Frankfurt/Dortmund/Hamburg - Vienna (every 2 hrs)
hese trains will no longer servce the Westbahnhof. They will run directly to Wien Meidling and Wien Hbf and will then continue to the Vienna International airport (VIE).
connections from Prague and Graz to the airport (VIE) will be available via Wien Hbf

All Euronight trains from the west will also skip the Westbahnhof and go directly to Wien Meidling - Wien Hbf.

Between Vienna (from Westbf via Meidling - Hbf) and Budapest 2 additional Eurocity-trains will be introduced, they will continue to Debrecen and Belgrade.

Also all EC-trains to Poland will stop at Wien Hbf.


railjet timetable Graz-Vienna-Prague (every 2 hrs):









ICE-timetable Linz-Vienna airport (every 2 hrs)









Travel time reductions in the 2015 timetable:









Source: http://konzern.oebb.at/de/Presse/Presseinformationen/2014_06_10_Wien_Hauptbahnhof/index.jsp



*Step 2 (timetable 2016, from dec 2015): *

ALL ÖBB long distance services will serve exclusively Wien Hbf + Wien Meidling. 
This will result in better connections and faster travel times. Munich-Budapest will be 30 minutes faster.
The airpoirt will then be served every 30minutes by direct long-distance trains.

A hub-structure with coordinated connections between will be implemented. Wien Hbf and Wien Meidling will work as a "twin hub": Connections west-south will be made at Meidling, all other connections at Wien Hbf.

The hub structure will work as follows:

At the full hour (.00):
RJ Prague-Vienna-Graz (every 2 hrs)
RJ Vienna-Graz (every 2 hrs)
IC VIE-Vienna-Salzburg (hourly)
(VIE = Vienna airport)
EC Warsaw-Vienna (singular trains)

At the half hour (.30)
RJ Budapest/VIE - Vienna - Munich/Innsbruck (every 2 hrs; single trainsets trains from VIE/Budapest will be combined at Wien Hbf; they will split again at Salzburg, the Budapest-trainset goes to Munich, the VIE-trainset to Innsbruck)
RJ VIE - Vienna - Zurich/Bregenz (every 2 hrs)
RJ Vienna - Villach (every 2 hrs)
EC Budapest (or beyond) - Vienna (singular trains, eventually every 2 hrs)

ICE-trains are not part of this hub structure, but they will of course continue to serve Wien Hbf, as will do the Euronight-trains.


This concept will enable additional time savings, some examples are listed here:








Source: http://konzern.oebb.at/de/Presse/Presseinformationen/2014_06_10_Wien_Hauptbahnhof/index.jsp


Best greetings from Vienna


Nachalnik


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## Sunfuns

Those are some impressive improvements in both time and connectivity. Well done!


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## earthJoker

What's the key advantage of the twin hub? The two stations are not that far apart so it doesn't seem impossible to implement a single hub.

Sorry if that was already explained, but a quick search didn't get me any conclusions.


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## KingNick

Are you refering to Meidling? That has its reasons in local public transport as it connects to the U6 which serves the whole western part of Vienna from north to south. Westbahnhof won't be a Hub next year anyway.


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## Baron Hirsch

Danke, Nachalnik, for all the detailed information about the future of national and international railway thru Vienna. 
1-2 questions just to clarify: 
1. the EC Vienna-Budapest-Belgrade will be the current EC Avala (now Belgrade-Budapest-Praha) rerouted to its former parcours, more or less running the same times east of Budapest? In that case, CD will probably no longer supply the coaches. Will SZ or ÖBB take care of that?
2. I take it that RailJet trains will have a monopoly on direct connections between Praha and Wien except for the EN Metropol, or did I miss something? On the parcours Praha-Brno however, I guess there will still be other ECs that run on to Bratislava and/or Budapest?


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## rheintram

The state of Vorarlberg and ÖBB Infra announced that they will invest Euro 340 million into rail infrastructure in the state until 2019. The sum already includes some recently finished projects.

These are the projects:
* 2014 (4th q.) - 2018: Extension/renewal of Wolfurt container terminal; 66 million
* Upgrading Ludesch cargo terminal
* - 2016: Modernization Hohenems railway station; 34 million
* - 2018: Modernization Rankweil railway station; 32 million
* 2016 - 2018: Modernization Götzis railway station; 14 million
* - 2020: Upgrade St. Margrethen (CH) - Lauterach line, including modernizing Lustenau and Hard-Fußach railway stations and the already finished upgrade of the Lustenau - St. Margrethen section of the line; 170 million.
* Partial modernization of Feldkirch - Liechtenstein line; 5 million.


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## Grotlaufen

Is Vorarlberg pressing for any upgrade of Arlbergbahn at the moment? To me this should be top one on the railway list. It just seems so odd to me that the state doesn´t push for any upgrades at all at the moment given how important the line is. Right now it takes around 2h30 min between Bregenz and Innsbruck (a distance of 190 km), many parts of the stretch are slow and single-track. It should be possible to shortern that journey to about 90 min instead.


----------



## rower2000

Grotlaufen said:


> Is Vorarlberg pressing for any upgrade of Arlbergbahn at the moment? To me this should be top one on the railway list. It just seems so odd to me that the state doesn´t push for any upgrades at all at the moment given how important the line is. Right now it takes around 2h30 min between Bregenz and Innsbruck (a distance of 190 km), many parts of the stretch are slow and single-track. It should be possible to shortern that journey to about 90 min instead.


While it would be nice to have, there are simply more important places in Austria to spend the money. There is enough capacity left on the Arlberg railway, so the only reason to re-build it would be to increase speed.

The timetable Bregenz-Bludenz at 0:48 hours is pretty much what you can get with stops in Dornbirn and Feldkirch, maybe one could get it down to 43 minutes at most. This means if you want to make Bregenz-Innsbruck at 195 km in 1:30 hours, you would have to make Bludenz-Innsbruck in 0:47 hours for 137 km including three to four intermediate stops (the traffic volumes over the Arlberg do not warrant a parallel RJ and IC traffic). This would result in an average speed of 174 km/h, so to get to your time, a 200 to 220 km/h line would be necessary. The only way to get there would be a tunnel from Bludenz to Landeck, at 50 km similar in length to the Brenner base tunnel. A 2:00 hour travel time from Bregenz to Innsbruck (Bludenz-Innsbruck in 1:17 h) would require an average of 106 km/h including stops over the Arlberg pass, so let's say 130 to 150 km/h Vmax. This might JUST be doable with several mid-length tunnels on the ramps, but would still need an investment of several billion Euros.


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## Sunfuns

How heavy is the passenger traffic from Voralberg to the rest of Austria? For those who want to go to a bigger city both Zurich and Munich are much closer and easier to reach.


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## Coccodrillo

I don't know Arlberg passenger rail traffic, but here are some other transalpine routes' traffic to compare:

Arlberg road tunnel AADT: 5.500 (source)

Gotthard: rail 9.000 passengers/day, road AADT 16.000 (rail 20.000 before the road tunnel and low-cost airlines)

Lötschberg: rail 10.000, road shuttle ~4.300

Fréjus/Mont Blanc: road ~5.000 each (half of that are trucks), rail negligible but capacitiy should be around 2.200 seats a day (with a 70% load factor this would mean 1.500 passenegrs per day)

Brenner: road ~32.000, rail I don't know (but certainly not more than the Swiss examples, probably around 5.000 but I really dopn't know)


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## Sunfuns

Interesting that Lötschberg has higher rail traffic than Gotthard. I guess it has to do with lack on convenient road alternatives. Probably will change once the new tunnel is open.


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## Coccodrillo

I replied there: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=114902345#post114902345


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## nachalnik

earthJoker said:


> What's the key advantage of the twin hub? The two stations are not that far apart so it doesn't seem impossible to implement a single hub.


On the one hand Meidling is a very important transfer point to urban transport, especially to the U6 underground.
Vienna covers a quite big area, so it's wise to let all trains stop twice in order to reduce access time for passengers to/from the western districts.

On the other hand it would be difficult to enable the west-south-connection at Wien Hbf.
The next transfer hubs from Vienna are Wiener Neustadt (to the south) and St. Pölten (to the east). The timings there are fixed (at around the full or half hour) and so a travel time from Vienna to both St. Pölten and Wiener Neustadt of under 30minutes (about ~25 minutes) is necessary. This is much harder to reach from Hauptbahnhof than from Meidling, as Meidling is a few kilometers/minutes closer to St. Pölten and Wiener Neustadt.

Nachalnik


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## nachalnik

http://www.austrianairlines.ag/Press/PressReleases/Press/2014/06/049.aspx?sc_lang=en

_
AIRail: Austrian Airlines and ÖBB to launch cooperation
Service, Product, Awards
• Direct link between Linz central station and Vienna Airport: up to eight train connections a day
• AIRail service to start on 14 December 2014, bookable from 2 July 2014 onwards
• Earn miles in same way as travelling by air

From 14 December 2014, Austrian Airlines and ÖBB are to launch a cooperation entitled ‘AIRail’ on the Linz central station – Vienna Airport – Linz central station route. In future, Austrian passengers with an Austrian flight either preceding or following their rail journey will also be able to use new ÖBB connections with an Austrian flight number between Linz central station and Vienna Airport. Integrating Linz into the Austrian Airlines network in this way – in addition to the five daily flights between the two cities already being offered – will provide up to eight extra rail connections a day. The new train route will become bookable, conveniently in one step together with an Austrian flight, from 2 July 2014 onwards. The travelling time from Linz central station to Vienna Airport will be 1 hour 47 minutes. From December 2015 onwards, the rail link will be extended further still, as ÖBB railjets and IC (Intercity) trains are deployed every 30 minutes and the travel time is reduced further, to 1 hour 42 minutes.

“The cooperation with ÖBB is an important step in empowering our passengers by offering them unrestricted mobility, no matter whether it’s in the air or on rails. In addition to this, we are connecting Linz even more strongly into the global network of Austrian Airlines, with up to eight rail connections a day”, says Jaan Albrecht, CEO of Austrian Airlines. Christian Kern, CEO ÖBB-Holding AG adds: "The connection of train and flight is another step towards modern mobility. Our infrastructure investments generate a direct customer benefit, especially the Vienna Central Station acts as a key to the lock and allows this new connection. As of December 2015, our customers can easily travel by railjet to ‘airjet’."

AIRail: earn miles in same way as when flying – and with guaranteed connection
Austrian passengers using AIRail on the route between Linz and Vienna can earn miles on the Miles & More programme in the same way as they would do when travelling by air. They also benefit from guaranteed onward transportation, no matter whether their journey is continued by air or rail. At platforms in Linz and Vienna Airport, an ÖBB porter will help passengers load and unload their luggage. Austrian Business Class passengers will travel in the First Class compartment of the train, and receive free access to the ÖBB Lounge at Linz central station before departure.
With AIRail, for instance, Austrian guests can travel by train from Linz to Vienna and onward by plane to Milan starting at a price of 179 euros. All service charges and taxes as well a seat in the Austrian compartment are included in the price.

Austrian Airlines
Austrian Airlines is Austria’s largest carrier and operates a global route network of round 130 destinations. That route network is particularly dense in Central and Eastern Europe with 41 destinations. Thanks to its favourable geographical location at the heart of Europe, the company’s hub at Vienna International Airport is the ideal gateway between East and West. Austrian Airlines is part of the Lufthansa Group, Europe’s largest airline group, and a member of the Star Alliance, the first global alliance of international airlines. The flight operations of the Austrian Airlines Group has been bundled at its 100% subsidiary Tyrolean Airways since 1st July, 2012.

Owner. Editor. Reproducer: Austrian Airlines AG. Corporate Communications [email protected].
Please find further information concerning the disclosure according to §§ 24 and 25 Media Act on www.austrian.com _


AiRail timetable: http://www.austrianairlines.ag/~/media/0A62B34BB24B4465A280468A76636883.ashx


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## Grotlaufen

rower2000 said:


> The timetable Bregenz-Bludenz at 0:48 hours is pretty much what you can get with stops in Dornbirn and Feldkirch, maybe one could get it down to 43 minutes at most. This means if you want to make Bregenz-Innsbruck at 195 km in 1:30 hours, you would have to make Bludenz-Innsbruck in 0:47 hours for 137 km including three to four intermediate stops (the traffic volumes over the Arlberg do not warrant a parallel RJ and IC traffic). This would result in an average speed of 174 km/h, so to get to your time, a 200 to 220 km/h line would be necessary. The only way to get there would be a tunnel from Bludenz to Landeck, at 50 km similar in length to the Brenner base tunnel. A 2:00 hour travel time from Bregenz to Innsbruck (Bludenz-Innsbruck in 1:17 h) would require an average of 106 km/h including stops over the Arlberg pass, so let's say 130 to 150 km/h Vmax. This might JUST be doable with several mid-length tunnels on the ramps, but would still need an investment of several billion Euros.



All right then, Bregenz-Innsbruck in 2h might be more feasible than doing it in 90 min. Regardless of the solution, doubling the track plus getting rid of level crossings should be a priority on such an important route. A starter could be to ensure double track with increased speed between Innsbruck and Landeck since Landeck is a starting point for many routes leading from the Inn valley to several ski resorts (Ischgl/Sammnaun, Livigno). 

For those interested in what the current situation regarding single/double track and electrification status in Austria looks like, see http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/maps_austria.php


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## rower2000

Grotlaufen said:


> All right then, Bregenz-Innsbruck in 2h might be more feasible than doing it in 90 min. Regardless of the solution, doubling the track plus getting rid of level crossings should be a priority on such an important route.


I think you are massively overestimating the importance of this route. You have 15 train pairs per day, including three EuroNight sleeper trains, crossing the Arlberg every day, transporting about 5000 passengers (in 2005 it was 4000 pax daily, the only number I found, so I added 25% to be on the safe side for pax numbers). That's short of 200 passengers per train, where most of them are ran with RJ in double traction - meaning a load factor of only 25%. You could - capacity wise - shift all road passenger traffic to the railway and still would not need more trains! As there are still enough windows for additional freight traffic, a doubling of the track is simply not required from a capacity point of view.


----------



## Grotlaufen

rower2000 said:


> I think you are massively overestimating the importance of this route. You have 15 train pairs per day, including three EuroNight sleeper trains, crossing the Arlberg every day, transporting about 5000 passengers (in 2005 it was 4000 pax daily, the only number I found, so I added 25% to be on the safe side for pax numbers). That's short of 200 passengers per train, where most of them are ran with RJ in double traction - meaning a load factor of only 25%. You could - capacity wise - shift all road passenger traffic to the railway and still would not need more trains! As there are still enough windows for additional freight traffic, a doubling of the track is simply not required from a capacity point of view.



Maybe it isn't important given the current situation or if looking at the domestic traffic within Austria. But if there's some hope to increase the traffic between Austria east of Arlberg/Central Europe and Switzerland (given you want to decrease flight traffic). It should be a serious effort made to do this by increasing speed and capacity through Arlberg. 


A search on Wikipedia for Zurich Airport gave me this data: The distance between Zurich and Vienna is about 750 km. In 2012 Vienna was the second-most busy route from Zurich Airport with 920 000 passengers/annum, that is about 2600 PAX per day. You could also fly to Linz and Salzburg from Zurich which are located en route to Vienna. According to OBB the fastest train between Zurich and Vienna took 7h50min. If this travel time could be decreased to about 5h +- 30min for Zurich-Vienna with stops in Linz, Salzburg, Innsbruck, somewhere in Vorarlberg next to the border (which would also serve eastern Switzerland and S:t Gallen, with Schengen and all that ) and Zurich, you'd not only be able to have faster travels but also attract some flight passangers to the train (and shut down the flight service Salzburg-Zurich). 


As both Switzerland and Austria want to protect their Alpine climate and lower emissions from flight traffic, this should be something to seriously strive towards and hence be a common interest to pursuit on both sides of the border. Hence a capacity increase on Arlberg follows.


----------



## rower2000

Grotlaufen said:


> A search on Wikipedia for Zurich Airport gave me this data: The distance between Zurich and Vienna is about 750 km. In 2012 Vienna was the second-most busy route from Zurich Airport with 920 000 passengers/annum, that is about 2600 PAX per day. You could also fly to Linz and Salzburg from Zurich which are located en route to Vienna. According to OBB the fastest train between Zurich and Vienna took 7h50min. If this travel time could be decreased to about 5h +- 30min


The distance from Zurich to Vienna is similar to the one Freiburg-Hamburg in Germany. This relation is fully covered by high speed lines with Vmax of 200 km/h or via Karlsruhe-Mannheim-Frankfurt-Fulda-Kassel-Hanover. Nevertheless, the fastest travel time between the two cities is slightly above 6 hours.

In the 7:50 hours, the Zurich-Vienna train passes almost all high speed lines currently in operation in Austria. Breitenschützing-Linz-Vienna allows over the whole distance speeds between 200 and 230 km/h, the lower Inn Valley line between Innsbruck and Wörgl allows for 220 km/h. An extension of the high speed lines between Salzburg and Attnang-Puchheim is planned, as is the lower Inn Valley line between Wörgl and Kufstein/Brannenburg. These two projects will gain you about 15 min each way. As today the travel time Vienna-Innsbruck is 4:10 hours, you get down to 3:55 h when those projects are realized in the 2025 to 2030 period. To get to your desired 5:30 h, one would have to make Innsbruck-Zurich in 1:30 hours, for a distance of 283 km. Again, you would be at a necessary average speed of 190 km/h, resulting in a Vmax of 220 to 230 km/h. And there we are again at the 50 km tunnel from Landeck to Bludenz. Even for six hours total time you would need to have a Vmax of 170 to 180 km/h which is - without VERY long and VERY expensive tunnels simply not doable in terrains as mountainous as the Arlberg region.


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## Sunfuns

Given the geography, distance and realistic traffic numbers Vienna and Zurich are simply too far from each other for a competitive rail transport. There are and should be few trains a day, but air will always be the way to go if time is an important consideration of you. 

Technically it would be possible to build a railway covering the distance in ca 3 1/2 hours, but that would never pay off. If it was one country and 5 million people at one end and 5 at the other then maybe there would be some talk about it.


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## thun

A high speed rail could only make sense via Munich imho. But even with that city and hub included, there most certainly would never be enough traffic to justify the investment. Heck, the DB didn't manage to implement an upgrate of the Munich-Lindau line for the last 40 years.


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## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/rolling-stock/obb-to-order-more-railjets.html?channel=542
> 
> *ÖBB to order more Railjets*
> Wednesday, June 18, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AUSTRIAN Federal Railways (ÖBB) CEO Mr Christian Kern has announced that ÖBB intends to exercise the final option in its contract with Siemens for Railjet push-pull long-distance trains.
> 
> The contract covers 67 sets, 51 of which have so far been ordered by ÖBB with seven being passed on to Czech Railways (CD). This means ÖBB can purchase up to nine more sets.
> 
> ÖBB says that its fleet of non-Railjet long-distance coaches is ageing and will need to be replaced. This will take time, however, and new inter-city equipment cannot be ordered before 2019 due to financial constraints.
> 
> As an interim measure, ÖBB intends to take up the option for the remaining nine Railjets. These trains will be fitted with additional fire protection equipment to meet Italian requirements, enabling them to be used on Munich – Verona and on Vienna – Venice services which at present use standard coaching stock.
> 
> ÖBB also says that the number of premium class seats will be reduced in favour of increasing capacity in economy class and that the new sets will have a full restaurant car similar to the CD Railjets.
> 
> The order still needs to be approved by the ÖBB supervisory board but talks with Siemens are already well advanced. Deliveries could start next year


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## KingNick

Well, 9 units will already be needed for the Munich - Verona relation (8 + 1 in reserve) therefore both won't happen unless other units are refitted.


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## nachalnik

..since today RZD (Russain Railways) offers a direct train connection from St. Petersburg to Vienna. The direct sleeping car is attached to three different trains during it's journey of 36 hours and 25 minutes:

St. Petersburg - Orsha with train no 19 (St. Petersburg - Odessa)
Orsha - Bohumin with train no 21/404 (Moscow - Prague)
Bohumin - Vienna with train no 101 (Bohumin - Vienna)


















Fahrplan:





Nachalnik


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## rheintram

Grotlaufen said:


> Is Vorarlberg pressing for any upgrade of Arlbergbahn at the moment? To me this should be top one on the railway list. It just seems so odd to me that the state doesn´t push for any upgrades at all at the moment given how important the line is. Right now it takes around 2h30 min between Bregenz and Innsbruck (a distance of 190 km), many parts of the stretch are slow and single-track. It should be possible to shortern that journey to about 90 min instead.


Well there had been plans to upgrade it with a second track. The project was fully planned already and especially on the eastern ramp land had already been expropriated and acquired for the purpose. Then, a couple of years ago, ÖBB completely dropped all of these plans. Lately even land previously reserved for that purpose was put on sale!

In the current ÖBB infrastructure framework plan (2014-2019) nothing is mentioned of the Arlberg axis. The sad truth is that nothing is going to really happen within the next decade and the Arlbergbahn will remain the patchwork it currently is. What we will see is selective improvements of avalanche security and so on, but even that will happen far below what would actually be necessary.

Generally spoken the state of Vorarlberg is obviously interested in upgrading this railway. Vorarlberg supported the BODAN-RAIL 2020 concept (An EU/Swiss funded project on conceptualizing an integrated railway system in the Lake Constance region by 2020), which includes that demand. Vorarlberg is primarily interested in extending the double track from Bludenz to Braz and later to Klösterle. Basically Vorarlberg, the Federal State and ÖBB signed an agreement on that in 1994 and Vorarlberg paid part of the planning costs. But nothing happened... 

Occasionally members of parliament from Vorarlberg put the question back on the table, but usually nothing really happens. Here's an example of a parliament protocol from last year (I just quickly translated the stuff):



> _Member of Parliament Dr. Harald Walser (Greens)_: Good morning, Madam minister! Upgrading the Arlbergbahn has unfortunately been stopped, especially the part between Braz and Bludenz, which had already been planned out. For Vorarlberg, this is a huge disadvantage. In the committee we already discussed the matter. My question to you: When will you think intensively again about upgrading the railway between Landeck-Bludenz with two tracks?
> 
> _Minister for Transportation, innovation and technology Doris Bures_: Mr. Deputy, I can not answer that question so to say in detail. But what is important to me, because we discussed that in the committee, is the railway in Tyrol: Also there, in the last years, we pushed forward a form of modernization, which is really presentable [...] But about that part of the railway exactly, when what and how we plan, I will accord you that.


http://www.parlament.gv.at/PAKT/VHG/XXIV/NRSITZ/NRSITZ_00188/SEITE_0045.html

And this is really the most tangible thing I have found by an official in recent years! Which is a shame really, because I agree that this railway has to be upgraded. We have seen some improvement in travel times in recent years, but only due to a reduced amount of stops. Now with the current timetable pretty much all previously cancelled stops have been reintroduced again...

Someone pointed out that Zurich and Munich are much closer to Vorarlberg than Vienna. That might be true but then Innsbruck, in Tyrol, is the seat of the High Court for Vorarlberg and Tyrol, seat of the largest hospital in Western Austria, traditional place of getting university level education etc. So there is quite some traffic between Vorarlberg and Tyrol alone. Then the Lindau - Munich connection is in a really bad state, even worse than the Arlbergbahn. So going to Munich by train takes even longer than to Innsbruck... The connection to Zurich is pretty good and Zurich is the airport most used by people from Vorarlberg. But ultimately Vienna is Austria's capital city and will always be an important destination. Once the Lindau-Munich railway is upgraded it could happen that people traveling from Vorarlberg to Vienna will go via Munich, as they already do when using the car.


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## KingNick

Since way too much money is located to other projects right now, I don't see any funds available for a better connection of Vorarlberg to the rest of Austria. The focus now has shifted from the western railway to the southern railway. This may change after 2030, but definitely not before. At least there's now a direct connection from Vorarlberg to Graz and southern Austria.


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## nachalnik

Last weekend I explored (by bike) the construction site of the “Koralmbahn“ (new line Graz – Klagenfurt) between the eastern portal of the Koralmtunnel and the station Wettmannstätten.

Map overview:




*location no 1, station Frauental-Bad Gams *




*location no 2 – close to he eastern portal oft he Koralmtunnel*





View towards the Koralmtunnel:




View towards east:



Nice houses 

*
Location no 3 – western end of the future station „Weststeiermark *

Here IC-trains and local trains of the Graz – Wies-Eibiswald line will stop in the future.

:

View towards the future station




View towards east:


The existing local railway line (Graz – Wies-Eibiswald) will be realigned and connected to the new station, some bridges for this new alignment (as well as for a new road) are already under construction: 



*
Location no 4 – east of the future station Weststeiermark*





This way I came by bike…














In the future it will look like that:




Source: 
http://www.kleinezeitung.at/nachric.../weichen-fuer-den-bahnhof-sind-gestellt.story
http://www.bmvit.gv.at/bmvit/verkehr/eisenbahn/verfahren/koralmbahn/abschnitt_wd/index.html

*Bereich 5*



*Location 6 – railway bridge crossing the Lassnitz river*







*New line under construction between Gross St. Florian and Gussendorf (location 7)*







*Location no 7 – near Gussendorf*






*Location no 8 – beginning oft he already partly completed section Wettmannstätten – Werndorf*

*Location no 9 – west of Wettmannstätten station*


*location 10 – station Wettmannstätten*






Typical substandard regional bus service… 


Platform 2/3:






My train back to Graz



Detailed construction plans for this section can be downloaded at http://www.bmvit.gv.at/bmvit/verkehr/eisenbahn/verfahren/koralmbahn/abschnitt_wd/index.html 


Nachalnik


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## cz

Graz main station by night


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## XAN_

Nice. I'm going to do a little rail-trip this July across Europe, including arriving at Graz at 21.53. :cheers:


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## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...-profits-as-ridership-climbs.html?channel=542
> 
> *Westbahn achieves first profits as ridership climbs*
> Friday, June 27, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JUST two years after launching its Vienna – Linz – Salzburg services, Austrian open-access operator Westbahn reached break-even last year according to the company's annual results, which were revealed on June 26.
> 
> Sales increased by 49.4% in 2013 to around €40m and Westbahn says Ebitda increased 82.6% year on year, which is attributed to efficient cost and operations management. Westbahn says it has been operating profitably since last autumn.
> 
> Competition is also having a positive impact on Westbahn's rival Austrian Federal Railways (ÖBB), whose premium Railjet services saw 7.4% ridership growth on the Vienna – Salzburg route last year.
> 
> "Despite the competitive environment and the difficult conditions in the Austrian railway market, which has led us to submit two complaints to the European Commission, we are on the right track," says Westbahn CEO Mr Erich Forster.
> 
> Westbahn currently operates around 3 million train-km per year between Vienna and Salzburg and launched its first services in December 2011


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## nachalnik

The 760mm narrow gauge line St. Pölten - Mariazell was taken over by NÖVOG (a company owned by the province of Niederösterreich) a few years ago and is now undergoing modernization.
New trainsets have been bought and the infrastructure has also partly been upgraded.

The line is 85 km long, the trip takes 2h22. Timetable: http://www.noevog.at/mcf/downloads/228036/Kundenfahrplan_ohne Zugnummern_2014.pdf

Historic trainset - these 1911-built locos hauled most regular trains till october 2013:









Top-speed is now 80 km/h, but most sections are slower (40-50 km/h) due to the alignment:









Modernized station Ober Grafendorf:









View from the train:


















New trainset (built by Stadler in Switzerland) at the new station Wienerbruck-Josefsberg:




































At Laubenbachmühle the new operational center of the railway line is located:




































Upgraded track for higher curve speeds (increased cant deficiency enabled by welded rails and precautions for increased transverse displacement resistance of the rails)









Another section with new rails:









New trainset with panorama-cars:




































Modernized bridge:









Train passing by:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chDFwqaoTRQ


Some more pics:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=115671003#post115671003


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## Wilhem275

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelangelo_Buonarroti

I'm always surprised of how this kind of mistakes can make its way into production without anyone being aware...


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## rower2000

Wilhem275 said:


> http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelangelo_Buonarroti
> 
> I'm always surprised of how this kind of mistakes can make its way into production without anyone being aware...


It was corrected in the meantime. However, they still claim that both spellings, Buonarroti and Buonarotti, are possible with the latter being the older version.

See also the book list in your wikipedia article:
Flavia Cartoni, Un aspetto degli scritti letterari di Michelangelo Buonarotti. La notte, il giorno, la vita e la morte como legame tematico di continuità, Madrid, Revista de filologia romanica, N°1, 1983. ISSN 0212-999X


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## Wilhem275

rower2000 said:


> See also the book list in your wikipedia article:
> Flavia Cartoni, Un aspetto degli scritti letterari di Michelangelo Buonarotti. La notte, il giorno, la vita e la morte como legame tematico di continuità, Madrid, Revista de filologia romanica, N°1, 1983. ISSN 0212-999X


This is a typo (as well as "como", which is Spanish):
http://revistas.ucm.es/index.php/RFRM/article/viewFile/RFRM8383110263A/14235

I never ever heard "Buonarotti", in any context.

Anyway, glad they corrected it  But will Roco sell the model in both versions? It may become a collector's piece, a sort of railway Inverted Jenny


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## Verso

Wilhem275 said:


> http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelangelo_Buonarroti
> 
> I'm always surprised of how this kind of mistakes can make its way into production without anyone being aware...


Even Michelangelo is pointing it out with his finger.


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## augmentedreality

*Koralmbahn (new line Graz - Klagenfurt) Ebenthal - Grafenstein*



nachalnik said:


> Last weekend I explored (by bike) the construction site of the “Koralmbahn“ (new line Graz – Klagenfurt) between the eastern portal of the Koralmtunnel and the station Wettmannstätten.
> 
> Map overview:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Detailed construction plans for this section can be downloaded at http://www.bmvit.gv.at/bmvit/verkehr/eisenbahn/verfahren/koralmbahn/abschnitt_wd/index.html
> 
> Nachalnik


*From Klagenfurt eastwards to Graz* a short section (14.2 km) of the '*Koralmbahn*' is completed (September 2007) as a single track line. Currently used by regional trains and freight service. The section is prepared to be enlarged to double-track.

A collection of images:
http://www.oebb.at/infrastruktur/de/5_0_fuer_Generationen/5_4_Wir_bauen_fuer_Generationen/5_4_4_Bildergalerien/Koralmbahn_AlthofenDrau-Klagenfurt/index.jsp

Detailed report (in German only):
http://www.oebb.at/infrastruktur/de/5_0_fuer_Generationen/5_4_Wir_bauen_fuer_Generationen/5_4_1_Schieneninfrastruktur/Suedstrecke/Koralmbahn/AlthofenDrau__Klagenfurt/index.jsp

Map overview:


















Railway station Ebenthal









Railway station Grafenstein









The entire report is available at: http://www.vlaki.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=8187


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## KingNick

Apparently there are plans to revive the Trieste - Ljubjana - Vienna line.

http://www.kleinezeitung.at/kaernten/3689518/friaul-denkt-wiederbelebung-bahnlinie.story

IMO, as nice as it sounds, the idea is doomed to fail for various reasons. 1) Frequency will be way too low to be attractive. 2) The only locos which could drive all the way (ÖBB 1216.0 and SZ 541.1) cannot drive between Spielfeld-Strass and Maribor, due to the poor state of the tracks. 3) For anybody going from Vienna to Trieste, travel time would be way too long. 4) I doubt the demand for such line is high enough. Trieste used to be important for Austria, but right now has completely lost its importance to us.

In other news EC 104/105 "Sobieski" will be extended to/from Gdynia:

http://www.rynek-kolejowy.pl/53121/powroci_ec_praha_sobieski_z_gdyni_do_wiednia.htm


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## Sunfuns

How long would the travel time be? They don't say in that article… No chance of major upgrade of sections which are in poor state? Trieste is still the closest spot on the sea from Vienna.


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## KingNick

At least 8h+.

You're right, it's the closest area to the sea, but that is not important for passenger transport. Trieste (in contrast to Venice) is no vacational or professional destination for Austrians. Is an upgrade going to happen? No idea, you'll have to ask the Slovenian users here. Personally I don't see it happening.


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## Sunfuns

KingNick said:


> At least 8h+.


I see, that's indeed hopeless then compared to ca 5 h driving time and probably there are flight too. [/QUOTE]




KingNick said:


> You're right, it's the closest area to the sea, but that is not important for passenger transport. Trieste (in contrast to Venice) is no vacational or professional destination for Austrians.


It's not a Venice or Florence in terms of things to see, but actually Trieste is quite nice.


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## Verso

KingNick said:


> Apparently there are plans to revive the Trieste - Ljubjana - Vienna line.
> 
> http://www.kleinezeitung.at/kaernten/3689518/friaul-denkt-wiederbelebung-bahnlinie.story


Interesting, given that there aren't even trains between Ljubljana and Trieste (except Villa Opicina). And there're still diesel locos driving since glaze ice destroyed the line earlier this year.


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## Karaya

KingNick said:


> Apparently there are plans to revive the Trieste - Ljubjana - Vienna line.
> 
> http://www.kleinezeitung.at/kaernten/3689518/friaul-denkt-wiederbelebung-bahnlinie.story
> 
> IMO, as nice as it sounds, the idea is doomed to fail for various reasons. 1) Frequency will be way too low to be attractive. 2) The only locos which could drive all the way (ÖBB 1216.0 and SZ 541.1) cannot drive between Spielfeld-Strass and Maribor, due to the poor state of the tracks. 3) For anybody going from Vienna to Trieste, travel time would be way too long. 4) I doubt the demand for such line is high enough. Trieste used to be important for Austria, but right now has completely lost its importance to us.
> 
> In other news EC 104/105 "Sobieski" will be extended to/from Gdynia:
> 
> http://www.rynek-kolejowy.pl/53121/powroci_ec_praha_sobieski_z_gdyni_do_wiednia.htm


Spielfeld - Maribor will be upgraded in next 5 years, but that is not the biggest problem. Connecting Trieste to Divača is more problematic.


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## KingNick

Well, if there's one thing you can count on it is struggle with Italy for a proper railway connection to another country.


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## Karaya

True that but to be fair, we have to complete our Slovenian part. It's not just Spielfeld - Maribor... Zidani Most - Celje is also problematic. Maybe it's good to start with lower ambitions, to connect Ljubljana and Zagreb with Vienna (ÖBB 1216.0 and SZ 541.1) and later Trieste.


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## KingNick

And have more than one train per day serving that line, yes.


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## Verso

^^ At least there're two trains per day between Vienna and Laško. :cheers:


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## KingNick

The reason why Lasko has two daily connection whilst Zagreb and Ljubljana have just one. :yes:


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## augmentedreality

*EC Sobieski z Gdyni do Wiednia ~ 10,5h*

Duration: *10:50* estimated. On this journey you cover a distance of 1,010 km approx.


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## augmentedreality

*EC Sobieski z Gdyni do Wiednia ~ 10,5h*

_Szacowany czas podróży EC Sobieski z Gdyni do Wiednia mógłby wynieść około *10,5h*._
Duration: *10:50* estimated. On this journey you cover a distance of 1,010 km approx.


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## KingNick

I wasn't talking about this train though, but the Vienna - Trieste relation.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/passenger/single-view/view/oebb-orders-more-railjets.html
> 
> *ÖBB orders more Railjets*
> 01 Aug 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
> AUSTRIA: Siemens announced an €145m order to supply Austrian Federal Railways with a further nine rakes of Railjet push-pull coaches on August 1. Delivery of the seven-car sets is scheduled for December 2016.
> 
> ‘Thanks to the increased profitability in passenger services, we are able to make this investment on our own and are thus investing in even greater customer satisfaction’, said ÖBB Chief Executive Christian Kern.
> 
> ÖBB currently operates 51 Railjet sets in Austria, Germany, Hungary and Switzerland. The additional sets are to be used with existing Siemens Eurosprinter locomotives (branded Taurus by ÖBB) on the Westbahn route between Wien and Salzburg and will also be equipped to operate in Italy.
> 
> Designed for use at speed up to 230 km/h, Railjet vehicles form part of Siemens’ Viaggio Comfort family of inter-city coaches. Final assembly will be undertaken at Siemens’ passenger vehicle competence centre in Wien, with bogies supplied from Graz.
> 
> Each 186 m long set of coaches will comprise a driving trailer with business and first class seating, a bistro car with a wheelchair lift, and five open-saloon coaches including one with a family zone and a multi-purpose area.
> 
> The coaches in the latest batch are to be equipped with an ‘Ecojet’ energy-saving package comprising LED lighting and an air-conditioning system which will use CO2 sensors to detect the number of passengers and adjust its output to suit. Siemens expects this could reduce energy costs by more than €5m/year across the Railjet fleet.


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## KingNick

Well, it will be the best equipped of all the batches (every economy seat has a footrest now and adjustable backrests, energy saving package, operational in Italy a.s.o.), but why on earth is it now 16.1m per unit compared to the 10.6m of the first batch?


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## KingNick

This new bridge will connect Vienna's Hauptbahnhof with the airport. As of December the Frankfurt - Vienna ICE will be extended to the airport.



KingNick said:


> Fotoupdate von der Flughafenanbindung von heute:


Location: https://www.google.at/maps/place/48...459,2958m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0


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## rheintram

KingNick said:


> Trieste (in contrast to Venice) is no vacational or professional destination for Austrians.


I disagree. Of course you can't compare it to Venice, but it is a popular destination in Northern Italy. I've traveled there twice by public transport (IC-Bus to Udine, then Trenitalia train to Trieste) and there were quite many other Austrians traveling along with me. In fact, German is spoken in most hotels and other tourist sites in the city. I wouldn't belittle Trieste's potential, if not current status.


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## Slartibartfas

Vienna Hauptbahnhof with a blue CD Railjet. A lucky shot from the http://www.a1-arsenal.panomax.at/ webcam:


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## doc7austin

Travelling from Vienna West to Innsbruck with Railjet train in Business Class


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## KingNick

Was your train running late between Salzburg and Innsbruck? To my knowledge 200+ km/h is not necessary timetable-wise in order to arrive on time between those cities.


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## AlexNL

At this year's InnoTrans convention, one of the exhibitors was the company that is supplying the seats for the new ÖBB CityJet. At their booth they had placed six seats in the way as they are going to be placed in the final trains.

I haven't made any pictures, but I have been able to sit in them and play around with the seats for a little while. I can assure you that I am quite impressed, in my opinion the quality of the seats matches that of a 2nd class DB InterCity (such as Amsterdam - Berlin), it way surpasses what people are used to for regional trains.

Good job, ÖBB!


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## KingNick

Since the CityJet will replace the highly comfortable class 4020, it better be damn comfortable.


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## nachalnik

A photo of these seats:


More photos can be found at http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?106,7116325


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## doc7austin

> Was your train running late between Salzburg and Innsbruck? To my knowledge 200+ km/h is not necessary timetable-wise in order to arrive on time between those cities.


The train was delayed by ten minutes departing from Salzburg. The train gathered another 5 minute in Germany shortly before Rosenheim.
A lot of passengers wanted to get a connecting train in Innsbruck (Transalpin to Zuerich). Scheduled time between arrival of Railjet and departure of the Transalpin train was just 4 minutes. So, the Railjet had to hurry!


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## webeagle12

doc7austin said:


> The train was delayed by ten minutes departing from Salzburg. The train gathered another 5 minute in Germany shortly before Rosenheim.
> A lot of passengers wanted to get a connecting train in Innsbruck (Transalpin to Zuerich). Scheduled time between arrival of Railjet and departure of the Transalpin train was just 4 minutes. So, the Railjet had to hurry!


I went Zurich - Vienna on same train ( business class too). Gd those seats were comfortable


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## thun

--


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## MoneyTalks

i like the Railjet. I once used the Railjet from Ulm to Frankfurt ( Germany ).


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## nachalnik

Vienna main station close to completion:
- main building and shopping center will open on oct 10
- 1st long distance trains will start to serve the station from dec 14 (currently the station is only used by local trains)
- full service will start one year later in dec 2015 (when all tracks will have been laid)


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## dan72

Very cold and clinical entry arcjitecture. Isnt very inviting to enter


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## Coccodrillo

With only 10 (or 12?) tracks, I fear it can be undersized within a few years...


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## AlexNL

10 (or 12) tracks don't have to form a problem as long as they're all through tracks and no trains change direction at Hbf.


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## KingNick

AlexNL said:


> 10 (or 12) tracks don't have to form a problem as long as they're all through tracks and no trains change direction at Hbf.


That is true. Almost no long distance train will (at least non of the RJ and also no IC coming from the west) end there. If there should ever be a capacity problem it's more likely going to be on the pre-existing tracks 1 and 2, which form the backbone of Vienna's suburban railway network and have trains running at subway intervalls during rush-hour. This potential problem however is unrelated to the new Hbf as it could not have been solved with the construction of the station.


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## ChegiNeni

Very nice nachalnik! :cheers: 

Some more pictures by user *RayStorm*:

Underground entrance coming from U1/Tram/S-Bahn


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## Vaud

I'm not sure I love it, it's very nice but the choice of colors is a bit depressing, why so much grey?


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## Wilhem275

I think the same. I like minimal and squared architecture, but here's there really too much grey, especially in the hall.

It would be nice to add a touch of light colored wood, would be classy and look in line with the style of the country.


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## Coccodrillo

nachalnik said:


> Who recognizes these 3 infrastrcuture projects shown in that modell:


The Koralmbahn, with the portal of the bitube Koralm tunnel and two new stations? The bigger one is clearly inspired from the new Wien Hbf.


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## Zero Gravity

Coccodrillo said:


> The Koralmbahn, with the portal of the bitube Koralm tunnel and two new stations? The bigger one is clearly inspired from the new Wien Hbf.


I'd say the second pic is just Hauptbahnhof and the third one is the "ambivalent" station of Tullnerfeld? 

Nice pictures thank you guys very much! I used the Sbahn to get home to my folks today, I would have loved to take a look at Hbf but I was really hungover and needed to get to family lunch :cheers:


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## Coccodrillo

This isn't the Lainzer-Wienerwald tunnel, so I still think abour the Koralmbahn.


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## KingNick

Coccodrillo said:


> This isn't the Lainzer-Wienerwald tunnel, so I still think abour the Koralmbahn.


He was talking about the third picture though, which is obviously the commuter station of Tullnerfeld.


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## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...ion-reconstruction-completed.html?channel=542
> 
> *Salzburg main station reconstruction completed*
> Monday, November 10, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _A SIX-YEAR project by Austrian Federal Railways (ÖBB) to reconstruct Salzburg main station was officially completed on November 7 at a cost of €250m_
> 
> The scheme was complicated due to the need to minimise disruption to train operations and because certain parts of the old building had to be retained as they are classified as a national monument. This included the huge iron roof across the platforms which was dismantled, refurbished and erected again.
> 
> Platforms had to be rebuilt step by step. This included converting some dead-end platforms into through ones so that the station now has nine through platforms instead of five previously. The terminal platforms had offices in between from the time when border control between Germany and Austria took place. These offices have now been removed.
> 
> Salzburg main station handles 25,000 passengers and 500 trains per day.


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## dan72

Im glad they kept the historical parts of the station.


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## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...iew/siemens-unveils-oebbs-desiro-cityjet.html
> 
> *Siemens unveils ÖBB’s Desiro cityjet*
> 11 Nov 2014
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> AUSTRIA: The first of 101 three-car Desiro EMUs which Siemens is building for ÖBB was unveiled at the company’s Uerdingen plant on November 10, in a ceremony attended by Federal Minister of Infrastructure Alois Stöger, ÖBB Chief Executive Christan Kern and Siemens Mobility CEO Jochen Eickholt, along with the provincial governors from Niederösterreich, Oberösterreich and Steiermark.
> 
> Branded as cityjet by ÖBB, the €550m order comprises 31 trains for the Wien S-Bahn network, 35 to operate regional services in Niederösterreich, 18 for Steiermark and 17 for Oberösterreich.
> 
> Following commissioning and trial running at Wildenrath, which is due to start immediately, the first EMU will undergo climate testing in Wien. The first five units are expected to enter service from the end of 2015, with deliveries to be completed in 2018
> 
> ...


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## dan72

Does this price include mainenance costs over a 25 year priod or purely the capital cost


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## KingNick

Pretty sure these are only the acquisition costs.


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## dan72

So obb employees normally do all the maintenance?


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## KingNick

Don't know if they do all the maintenance, but they certainly do a lot. For that purpose ÖBB has its own maintenance company called Technische Services.


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## Zero Gravity

dan72 said:


> So obb employees normally do all the maintenance?


For repairing track and rejuvenating the trackbed they hire the company swietelsky. Although I am not sure if they only rent their machines or their crews also.







http://bahn.startbilder.de/bild/Deu...leisbauzug-der-fa-swietelsky-in-gremberg.html

Last week I was at Hauptbahnhof for the first time, I have to say it's really nice. Certainly not an architectural marvel but it's just elegant enough and certainly gets the job done. What I found particulary beautiful were the escalator rises to the platforms. The walls are all black and with the light from the escalators it looks downright eerie from the hall downstairs, like you are entering some other dimension. It gave me goosebumps. Normal people could probably never understand such a thing :lol:


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## dimlys1994

From Global Rail News:



> http://www.globalrailnews.com/2014/...ack-of-financial-transparency-in-rail-sector/
> 
> *Austria taken to court over lack of financial transparency in rail sector*
> 27 NOV, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The European Commission (EC) is to take Austria to the Court of Justice over an apparent lack of financial transparency in the country’s rail sector.
> 
> In a statement, the EC said that Austria wasn’t working hard enough to ensure that subsidies paid for passenger transport services were being properly recorded in relevant accounts.
> 
> The EC said: “It cannot be excluded that public funds are used to cross subsidise other transport services. This could distort competition, potentially giving an unfair competitive advantage to those receiving the public subsidies.”


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## cz

New train station on Vienna airport completed

The last constuction phase of the underground train station on Vienna airport VIE has been completed. Now not only the City Airport Train "CAT", the rapid train "S-Bahn" and regional trains arrive at the station but also fast intercity trains like the "Railjet".

The architectural design was carried out by Zechner & Zechner architects http://www.zechner.com


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## Goy

*Are they building a long tunnel between Italy and Austria?

Brenner Base Tunnel!!! Do you guys have photos of it?*


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## Wilhem275

Yes, here it is:










:troll:


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## KingNick

Goy said:


> *Are they building a long tunnel between Italy and Austria?
> 
> Brenner Base Tunnel!!! Do you guys have photos of it?*


Progess reports can be found here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1624596&page=4


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## Coccodrillo

It is possible to renovate a tunnel also without removing definitively a track. The Fréjus/Mont Cenis tunnel has been enlarged (mainly lowering the trackbed) by closing the tracks alternatively, plus with a daily 6-hour closure.

Tunnels on the northern ramp of the Brennerbahn have been renovated during the big works in 2012, which closed the line for a month and for several weekends.

If the Karawanken tunnel doesn't need to be enlarged, closing temporarily one track should be enough, without any (too long) total closure.


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## augmentedreality

*Stacja ÖBB Wien Hauptbahnhof*

*December 2014*

Stacja ÖBB Wien Hauptbahnhof #1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YvldOSeZPSk

Stacja ÖBB Wien Hauptbahnhof #2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VFmdZ-_odAc

Stacja ÖBB Wien Hauptbahnhof #3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2LXtZGcpKI&feature=player_detailpage

Stacja ÖBB Wien Hauptbahnhof #4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tpIWeBOTkU0

Stacja ÖBB Wien Hauptbahnhof #5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=W5dwlQw-HFE

*February 2015*

ÖBB Wien Hauptbahnhof im Februar 2015 #1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6tV4xGwaBYc

ÖBB Wien Hauptbahnhof im Februar 2015 #2 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZCWSKmuzY4U


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## RGR 523

Désolé je ne parle pas anglais. / Sorry I don't speak English.

Mercredi 6 mai 2015.

Collision entre deux trains dans le Land de Styrie (Steiermark)

Réseau du Steiermärkischen Landesbahnen



> *Un mort et 8 blessés dans une collision de trains en Autriche*
> 
> Huit personnes ont été blessées, dont deux gravement, lors d'une collision frontale entre deux trains régionaux dans le sud de l'Autriche. L'un des conducteurs est décédé. Une collision frontale entre deux trains régionaux a fait un mort et huit blessés, dont deux graves, ce mercredi 6 mai dans le sud de l'Autriche. L'accident s'est produit vers 10h30, près de la localité de Waldstein-in-Übelbach, près de Graz.
> 
> Le conducteur d'un des deux convois est décédé des suites de ses blessures, a indiqué le directeur de la compagnie ferroviaire régionale «Steiermärkischen Landesbahnen», Helmut Wittmann. Une passagère de 60 ans et le conducteur de l'autre rame se trouvent dans un état jugé «critique», ont indiqué les secours. L'accident a par ailleurs blessé six autres personnes plus légèrement. Il s'est produit sur un tronçon à voie unique.
> 
> La suite dans Le Matin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Une collision frontale entre deux trains régionaux a fait un mort et huit blessés, dont deux graves,
> près de Waldstein-in-Übelbach, dans le sud de l'Autriche. (6 mai 2015). Image: Keystone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L'accident s'est produit vers 10h30. Le lieu du drame se situe non loin de Graz. (6 mai 2015). Image: Keystone
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> Le conducteur d'un des deux convois est décédé des suites de ses blessures. (6 mai 2015). Image: Keystone


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## RGR 523

Je ne parle pas l'allemand. / Ich spreche kaum Deutsch.

Mercredi 6 mai 2015.

Collision entre deux trains dans le Land de Styrie (Steiermark)

Réseau du Steiermärkischen Landesbahnen



> *Zugsunglück in Waldstein*
> 
> Deutschfeistriz: Waldstein | Am Mittwoch Vormittag sind zwischen Übelbach und Deutschfeistritz in einem Waldstück zwei Personenzüge der Steiermärkischen Landesbahnen zusammengestoßen. Einer der Lokführer dürfte das Haltesignal übersehen haben. Die Züge kollidierten mit etwa 80 km/h.
> 
> Willi Wurzinger, Feuerwehrkommandant des Abschnitt eins des Bereichsfeuerwehrverbandes Graz-Umgebung, schildert: "Ich war und bin selbst im Einsatz. Die Menschenrettung ist bereits abgeschlossen, in Kürze werden die Bergungsarbeiten beginnen." Insgesamt sind acht regionale Feuerwehren im Einsatz.
> 
> Einer der beiden Lokführer sei dabei ums Leben gekommen, heißt es in einer APA-Meldung. Der zweite Lokführer wurde laut ÖAMTC-Angaben vom Notarzthubschrauber Christophorus 16 verletzt in ein Krankenhaus geflogen. Von mehreren – teils schwer – Verletzen ist die Rede ...
> 
> *Politik zeigt sich betroffen*
> 
> Landeshauptmann-Stellvertreter Hermann Schützenhöfer äußert sich bei einer Pressekonferenz mit Finanzminister Hans Jörg Schelling zu verstorbenem Lokführer und den Verletzten in Waldstein: "In dieser Stunde gilt unsere Anteilnahme seiner Familie (Anm.: der Familie des Lokführers) und wir hoffen, dass die völlige Gesundheit der Verletzten wieder hergestellt wird."
> 
> Suite (et fin) de l'article dans Meine Woche.at
> 
> Ende Artikel in Meine Woche.at
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Foto: Thomas Meier/Feuerwehr)


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## ramakrishna1984

*New vapour-sensing system - Sydney Railways*

One of the major city in Australia is Sydney.Recently Australia's Sydney trains introduced a Mousetrap device equipped on the trains detects the smell of spray and then immediately alerts train guards, and so far the vapour-sensing system led to the arrest of more than 30 offenders.
Source:


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## rower2000

ramakrishna1984 said:


> One of the major city in Australia is Sydney.Recently Australia's Sydney trains introduced a Mousetrap device equipped on the trains detects the smell of spray and then immediately alerts train guards, and so far the vapour-sensing system led to the arrest of more than 30 offenders.
> Source:


Wrong country .


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## Verso

:lol:


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## Wilhem275

Oh my, it happened again? :lol:


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## KingNick

Jebus...


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## Verso

Bleiburg train station. Slovenian train on the right. :troll:









http://www.joker.si/mn3njalnik/uploads/monthly_05_2015/post-3725-0-76369400-1431596456.jpg

Sorry for visual pollution. :lol:


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## DingeZ

Actually, the Slovenian railways also have those DMUs (Siemens Desiro), but they are covered about 90% with graffiti.


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## KingNick

German ICE


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## Verso

DingeZ said:


> Actually, the Slovenian railways also have those DMUs (Siemens Desiro), but they are covered about 90% with graffiti.


I know we have Desiros, but we still have those ancient trains as well. :lol: Although when I drove from Bleiburg to Maribor we had a newer train without graffiti.


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## StuZealand

Wilhem275 said:


> Oh my, it happened again? :lol:


I loved Crocodile Dundee. You Austrians really know how to make great movies. :hide:


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## inundační šachtička

Why is it, that the SŽ have completely given up on keeping their trains clean? 
Especially regional MUs, almost each and everyone looks like a circus on wheelshno:
Is it a part of some ingenious long-term anti-grafiti strategy to lull them into a false sense of security and then spring the trap?:lol:


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## Verso

^^ It's terrible. hno: They should allocate some money for guarding their trains. It particularly pisses me off when they spray windows as well.


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## I(L)WTC

KingNick said:


> German ICE


 Oh mein gott :lol:


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## jbombero

they Need Security guards, cameras or drones with machine guns! jaja


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## webeagle12

KingNick said:


> German ICE


Oh dear lawwddd


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## TedStriker

Alternatively how about paying some graffiti artists to spray a complete ICE with some top-notch design?


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## nachalnik

Overnight trains at Wien Hbf:

Juli 2015, EN 490 Wien-Hamburg (11 coaches: 2 Bc, 1 WL, 2 Bc, 2 B, 3 DDm):





Juni 2015, EN 235 Wien-Roma/Milano (14 coaches: 2 DDm (nach Verona), 1 B, 1 WL, 2 B (to Milano), 3 Bc, 1 WL, 2 B (to Roma), 2 B (to Villach)):





Juni 2015, D 408 Nice-Moskva (11 coaches: 2 WLS, 1 WR, 7 WL, 1 WLS) :





Mai 2015, EN 1237 Wien-Livorno (10 coaches: 1 Bc, 1 WL, 2 Bc, 1 B, 5 DDm):





Mai 2015, EN 466/237 Wien-Zürich/Venezia (14 coaches: 2 WL, 3 Bc, 2 B (to Zürich), 2 B, 2 WL, 3 Bc (to Venezia)):





April 2015, EN 466/237 Wien-Zürich/Venedig (13 coaches: 2 WL, 2 Bc, 2 B (to Zürich), 2 B, 2 WL, 3 Bc (to Venezia)):





Februar 2015, EN 246 Wien-Bregenz (12 coaches: 3 WL, 5 Bc, 2 B, 2 DDm (to Feldkirch)):





Dezember 2014, D 408 Nice-Moskva (8 coaches: 2 WLS, 1 WR, 5 WL):






Other night trains not included in these videos:

D 100/101 Wien-Bohumin (twice weekly sleeping cars to Moscow, once weekly to St. Peterburg)

EN 246/247 daily Wien-Bregenz

EN 347/346 daily Wien-Bucuresti

D 406/407 daily Wien-Warszawa/Krakow/Berlin

EN 420/421 daily Wien-Düsseldorf

EN 462/463 daily Budapest-München/Zürich



Nachalnik


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## KingNick

Broad gauge is back on the table. The conservatives are proposing for the Vienna - Kosice extension to be built: http://derstandart.at/2000018779438/Wiener-OeVP-will-Transsibirische-Eisenbahn-nach-Wien-holen


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## KingNick

Railway construction porn :drool:
https://www.facebook.com/Polizeimodellbahn/videos/454236951405333/

It is the construction site for the St. Pölten freight train bypass (blue line), which will be operational by 2017:








http://www.oebb.at/infrastruktur/de...eckenschluss_St._Poelten_-_Loosdorf/index.jsp


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## TedStriker

KingNick said:


> Broad gauge is back on the table.



Can't see this happening anytime soon...


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## Nexis

Why would they use Broad Gauge when most of Europe uses Standard?


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## Maadeuurija

Nexis said:


> Why would they use Broad Gauge when most of Europe uses Standard?


Because there's a Broad gauge line at the other end of the proposed route which is connected to the rest of the broad gauge network.
See yourself


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## Nexis




----------



## KingNick

ÖBB just placed an invitation for offers for over 200 freight locos:

*Tender 1 'Elektrostandardlokomotiven'*

2017: 50 AC locomotives, 30 in first order - 4 axles
- minimum: 300 kN / 120 kph / 5.6MW / 350kW last mile diesel
- obligatory homologation: DE/AT/HU/RO/SK(AC)/CZ(AC)/HR/SB/BG/TR
- optional: BA/MK/GR

2017: 25 Multi System locos, not in first order - 4 axles
- minimum: 300 kN / 120 kph / 5.6MW
- obligatory homologation: DE/AT/HU/HR/SK/CZ/PL/IT/SI (incl. Italy)
- optional: BE/NL/RO/BG/TR/SB/BA/MK/GR

2017: 25 Multi System locos, not in first order - 4 axles
- minimum: 300 kN / 120 kph / 5.6MW
- obligatory homologation: DE/AT/HU/HR/SK/CZ/PL/SI (excl. Italy)
- optional: BE/NL/RO/BG/TR/SB/BA/MK/GR

*Tender 2 'Supercargolokomotiven West' (Hybrid)*

2020: 50 AC locomotives, 30 in first order - 2x4 or 6 axles
- minimum: 450 kN / 120 kph / 5.6MW + 1.8MW diesel
- obligatory homologation: DE/AT/HU/RO/SK(AC)/CZ(AC)/HR/SB/BG/TR
- optional: BE/NL/PL/IT (all DC countries!) /SI/BA/MK/GR

*Tender 3 'Supercargolokomotiven Ost'*

2017: 50 AC locomotives, 10 in first order - 6 axles
- minimum: 450 kN / 120 kph / 5MW / 350kW last mile diesel
- obligatory homologation: AT(Heg.-Vienna only)/HU/RO/BG
- optional: AT(rest)/SK/TR/SB/HR/BA/MK/GR

http://www.railcolor.net/index.php?nav=1405330&id=8137&action=dview

Especially the "Supercargolokomotiven Ost/West" are going to be interesting as 6 axles locos are very rare in Austria these days.


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## KingNick

Additionally the Austrian government agreed on a 14.6 billion Euro railway infrastructure package for the period until 2021. Focus will be on the Southern Railway, Brenner Base Tunnel, Marchegger Eastern Railway and closing the last gap of the 4 tracks expansion between Vienna and Wels.

http://derstandart.at/2000023831305...6-Milliarden-Euro-schweren-OeBB-Rahmenplan-ab


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## Nexis

*4k Führerstandsmitfahrt Schoberpass Selzthal - St. Michael (BR 185)*








> Führerstandsmitfahrt von Selzthal nach St. Michael (Schoberpassstrecke) Umleiterzug und BR 185 (+ 189).
> 
> Schoberpass/Rudolfsbahn Selzthal - Michael: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolfsbahn
> 
> Openrailwaymap: http://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=de&lat=47.36580396648149&lon=14.664344787597656&zoom=11&style=standard


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## Svartmetall

This video of mine was filmed in Vienna back in July, but I've only now got around to uploading it. 

The new Hauptbahnhof. Awesome station, very nice and clean architecture. This is a little walking tour of the platforms and the station building itself.


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## Slartibartfas

Wien Hauptbahnhof enters full service as of today!

From now on all trains except regional trains and those of the private company "Westbahn" from the Western rail corridor are heading for Wien Hbf via Wien Meidling. Hence finally, after more than 150 years of railway history in Austria, Vienna finally has a true main station, connecting trains from all directions with optimized transfer options.









http://diepresse.com/images/uploads/c/2/0/4885536/048E9168-EB59-4FCA-BD63-AB438F359FEA_v0_h_v0.jpg


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## AlexNL

Why doesn't Westbahn go to Hbf as well?


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## Slartibartfas

Because Westbahn believes it can create an USP by being the only one to offer fast long(er) distance services to Westbahnhof. In other words they would cater for a specific group of people who are heading to the north-west of Vienna. 

We will see if this is going to work out or if Westbahn is going to follow the ÖBB soon because it figured out it can not afford the complete lack of connectivity to all the other long distance relations.


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## rudiwien

I guess, besides the reason mentioned above, Westbahn would actually not be used that much by customers that would profit from the great train interchange options offered now at Hauptbahnhof: Westbahn does not offer services on any other lines, so anyone going from e.g. Salzburg to Budapest would need to buy two different tickets (one for Westbahn, one for ÖBB), and thus might outright take an ÖBB train for the whole trip anyway.

Therefore, positioning themselves for those travelling to/from places close to a U4, U3 or northern branch of U6 (not necessarily only north-west of Vienna), might be a viable strategy, if going to Hauptbahnhof would be a detour or require more changing in the urban transportation network for those customers.
We'll see if that works out


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## Wilhem275

It's a strategy followed by other private operators. For example, NTV (Italian HS operator) began its services using different stations in main cities.
After a few years it seems they are abandoning this model and reverting to the traditional hubs, even though they were able to gather a certain interest in the alternative stations.
It must be said that the public was not used to use those stations for long distance trains, and this limited their success.

I believe Westbahn will have better fortune with this strategy, because the Westbahnhof is a well known hub for Wieners and for users of that line.
Hauptbahnhof is connected with other rail services and S-Bahn, but the Westbhf. appears to be better connected to the city and this is an advantage in regional travels.


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## Coccodrillo

Nearly all regional trains radiating from Milan go to Porta Garibaldi instead of Centrale. I think this was a more interesting station than Centrale for NTV, which now goeas to Centrale.

This reminds me Westbahn, which as I read has ordered new trains to serve _also_ the Hbf.


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## Wilhem275

I agree with your view, but you know the public tends to be scared by changes...


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## AlexNL

Wasn't it the case with NTV that they were refused paths into the main stations because there was no capacity (according to RFI)?


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## KingNick

I also expect the network fees to be higher for the new Hauptbahnhof, which is another reason why Westbahn stayed at the Westbahnhof.

User Nachalnik did a comprehensive picture documentary about the latest changes to the timetable:



nachalnik said:


> Ein Bildbericht zum Fahrplanwechsel im Raum Wien:
> 
> 
> 13.12.2015 0h45 - der erste RJ von Westen, der direkt zum Hbf fuhr, war der ab Mitternacht auf den neuen Fahrplan wechselnde RJ 361 von Zürich nach Wien:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heute morgen IC 542 Flughafen Wien - Innsbruck Hbf:
> 
> 
> IC 821 Linz Hbf - Flughafen Wien:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Am Bf Flughafen Wien macht der IC stündlich zur halben Stunde eine Kurzwende:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Am ÖBB Fahrkartenschalter in der Ankunftshalle des Flughafens wird künftig wohl mehr los sein:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zur vollen Stunde treffen sich am Flughafen ein ankommender und ein abfahrender RJ.
> RJ 967 Wien Hbf - Flughafen Wien (an 7h57) und RJ 262 Flughafen Wien (ab 8h03) - München Hbf:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im RJ 262 unterwegs vom Flughafen zum Hbf:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bahnsteiggleicher Anschluss vom RJ 262 auf den RJ 533 nach Lienz:
> 
> 
> EN 346 von Bucuresti nach Wien Hbf:
> 
> 
> Das neue Reisezentrum am Bahnhof Meidling:
> 
> 
> Kleine Spritztour mit dem neuen Cityjet von Meidling nach Simmering:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Retour zum Hbf per 5047er:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vereinigung der Zugteile RJ 162 (Budapest - Zürich) und RJ 562 (Flughafen Wien - Bregenz):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Der verspätete RJ 72 nach Praha hl n - heute musste in Wien Hbf von Graz umgestiegen werden, da wegen der bis heute morgen bestandene Sperre der Semmeringstrecke der Zug von Graz bis Wien noch mit einer nicht-tschechientauglichen Garintur geführt wurde:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Die aus Graz kommende und in Wien Hbf endende Garnitur:
> 
> 
> Rechts auf Bstg 9 RJ 949 Salzburg - Flughafen Wien:
> 
> 
> RJ 530 von Villach kommt Bstg 10A-C an:
> 
> 
> Vorne (Bstg 10A-C) RJ 530 von Villach Hbf nach Wien Hbf, hinten (Bstg 10C-E) RJ 49 Wien Hbf - Budapest:
> 
> 
> Etwas später - IC 693 Klagenfurt - Flughafen Wien (via Salzburg) und RJ 76 (Graz - Praha):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RJ 566 Flughafen Wien - Bregenz:
> 
> 
> RJ 63 München - Budapest (Wien Hbf ab 13h42) fährt von Salzburg bis Wien Hbf vereinigt mit RJ 863 Bregenz - Flughafen Wien (Wien Hbf ab 13h39):
> 
> 
> RJ 863 zum Flughafen:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IC 646 Flughafen Wien - Salzburg:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bereitstellung des EC 102 Wien - Warszawa:
> 
> 
> Ankunft EC 103 Warszawa - Wien:
> 
> 
> EC 102 im Vordergrund, EC 103 im Hintergrund:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EC 103 Warszawa - Wien:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EC 158 Zagreb - Wien (vorne) und EC 102 (Wien - Warszawa) hinten:
> 
> 
> RJ 64/864 (Budapest - München/Flughafen Wien - Innsbruck):
> 
> 
> IC 692 (Flughafen Wien - Klagenfurt via Salzburg) und RJ 75 (Praha - Graz):
> 
> 
> IC 645 (Salzburg - Flughafen Wien, an 15h27) wendet auf IC 740 (Flughafen Wien - Salzburg):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mit IC 740 vom Flughafen zum Hbf:
> 
> 
> 
> RJ 656 fährt von Graz zum Flughafen Wien (an 16h27):
> 
> 
> Ein neuer Zugendbahnhof für EC 147 - nun geht es bis nach Nyiregyhaza:
> 
> 
> Mit einem alten Bekannten - DRV 408 von Nice-Ville nach Moskva Belorusskaja - sei dieser Bildbericht beendet:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----
> 
> Nachalnik


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## Slartibartfas

Some well researched hard facts. But I am not as negative about HSR as the author. Competitiveness for routes under 2 hours has been shown to be extremely high towards aviation, up to 4 hours HSR remains strong and up to 6 hours still somewhat competitive. 

The problem is similar to subway vs tram. For a long time Vienna radically closed down any tram lines even with weak redundancy to new subway lines. The reasoning was obvious but as obvious was the fact that it was done against the interests of the customers. It doesn't have to be like that and the responsible people seem to have realized that by now. It hink for heavy rail this realization has yet to claim ground.


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## Wilhem275

I agree ^^

There is still a wide consideration of HSR as an evolutionary step of railways, meant to completely substitute "the old trains".
In fact it's just another instrument added to the system. It should be meant to substitute other modes, not other trains (or at least not completely).


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## earthJoker

Slartibartfas said:


> The problem is similar to subway vs tram. For a long time Vienna radically closed down any tram lines even with weak redundancy to new subway lines. The reasoning was obvious but as obvious was the fact that it was done against the interests of the customers.


It is said, that this is one of the main reason why the people of Zürich rejected a subway twice. In both proposals the subway would have replaced the trams.


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## Slartibartfas

With all the downsides and I think also some problematic choices I do think that Vienna is better off with its subway system though. Still, Vienna retained a very substantial tram network and I think we slowly moved away from a shrinking one to a slowly growing one again. If I am not mistaken it is one of not so many Western European cities that has retained such a sizable tram network (but then, that might be because it is actually not all so "Western European" anyway ) So Vienna is in fact about the integration of different modes which do have their place and work in combination by creating a seamless system within the city proper. 

Zürichs central and dense parts are much more compact with the urban area extending along heavy rail line corridors, if I am not mistaken. So the situation is different there and trams in combination with light rail and S-Bahn might be the best solution actually.

To get back to heavy rail, I think the ÖBB is taking a good path here, having some modest HSR, without the prohbitive price scheme with huge price fluctuations seen with some other national railways and at the same time it actually incraeses its night train services as an addition. And on top of that all local services are increasingly integrated with fast trains in a highly syncronized timetable. Of course, that is something shamelessly copied from the Swiss


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## Baron Hirsch

The article certainly has some valid points, however also some limitations. The perspective is certainly very West European, where companies like Thalys and Renfe really have horrible price hikes compared to the standard network. With ÖBB and DB, the price difference between an IC and an ICE is not that huge (admittedly neither is the speed difference). And we must admit, the greater the distance the fewer the passengers. Also we must discuss high-speed trains not only against the backdrop of efficient EuroCity connections 30 years ago, but against the backdrop of today's existing airplane competition. Do more people travel from Paris to Marseille because it is fast by HSR? Yes, but HSR also prevents people from flying to Marseille, so the overall effect is positive. 
Having said that, trains should definitively not be withdrawn from routes over 4-6 hours, and there the niche of night trains plays an important role. If DB had killed the Munich-Berlin night train in 2018, when supposedly the journey time of ICEs will be cut to 4 hours, I would have said, for *'s sake, kill it, the night train may be hard to run after that. But killing the Elipsos just because there are now some daytime HS trains between Barcelona and Paris really made no sense. In the long run, I do believe HS nigh trains would be a way to go to grab a share of the market that does not exist yet. 
Prices of travel are political, and in the greater scheme of things, that is where changes have to be made. If air and road travel will have to shoulder the damage costs to the environment, health, and urban development, then rail travel will become more competitive. At the present rate, railways have hardly a chance.


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## earthJoker

Slartibartfas said:


> Zürichs central and dense parts are much more compact with the urban area extending along heavy rail line corridors, if I am not mistaken. So the situation is different there and trams in combination with light rail and S-Bahn might be the best solution actually.


Those corridors are defined by topography. But yes the S-Bahn tram combination helps a lot. But there is probably not a lot more capacity to squeeze out of that system. Would be an interesting discussion for the Zürich suburban thread.


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## Slartibartfas

Baron Hirsch said:


> In the long run, I do believe HS nigh trains would be a way to go to grab a share of the market that does not exist yet.


HS night trains are a bit problematic as most HSR corridors are closed for maintenance during night as the high speed takes its toll and also has much stricter quality requirements of the track, or so I have heard. 

That might explain why they are so rare.


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## Wilhem275

True, and also: the aim of most HSLs is to reduce travel times to a few hours (let's say 4 or less, usually).

One thing is leaving around midnight, sleeping for 6-8 hours and being dropped at destination in the morning. But with a HS service you would sleep for 3-4 hours and be dropped in a city center in the middle of the night with nowhere to go (or depart in the middle of the night).
Exactly what happens to air travellers, spending horrible half-nights in airport halls.
Every time I book a night train I have people laughing at my ridiculously long journey, compared to air trips of 2h or less. Then I laugh at them losing half a day of vacation just for the travel, or spending 2h on a plane and 6 more on an airport bench... :lol:

This is the exact reason why HSR cannot fully substitute night trains: the point of a night train is to combine sleeping and travelling time (and thus sparing a hotel night as well). A faster travel gives no added value, and in most cases it's actually less attractive.

I believe there is space, on crowded corridors, for late night and early morning HS services (let's say 22-01 or 04-07), but night trains are a whole different thing.


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## earthJoker

Some people simply can't sleep in night trains.


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## Wilhem275

Then there's plenty of comfortable airport benches for them


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## Nexis

*4k Führerstandsmitfahrt Rudolfsbahn / Neumarkter Sattel St. Michael - St. Veit/Glan - Klagenfurt *


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## Slartibartfas

earthJoker said:


> Some people simply can't sleep in night trains.


Those people don't have to take them. There are plenty of customers for night trains. It's a myth that they are abolished because of a lack of customers.


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## Zero Gravity

Wilhem275 said:


> True, and also: the aim of most HSLs is to reduce travel times to a few hours (let's say 4 or less, usually).
> 
> One thing is leaving around midnight, sleeping for 6-8 hours and being dropped at destination in the morning. But with a HS service you would sleep for 3-4 hours and be dropped in a city center in the middle of the night with nowhere to go (or depart in the middle of the night).
> Exactly what happens to air travellers, spending horrible half-nights in airport halls.
> Every time I book a night train I have people laughing at my ridiculously long journey, compared to air trips of 2h or less. Then I laugh at them losing half a day of vacation just for the travel, or spending 2h on a plane and 6 more on an airport bench... :lol:
> 
> This is the exact reason why HSR cannot fully substitute night trains: the point of a night train is to combine sleeping and travelling time (and thus sparing a hotel night as well). A faster travel gives no added value, and in most cases it's actually less attractive.
> 
> I believe there is space, on crowded corridors, for late night and early morning HS services (let's say 22-01 or 04-07), but night trains are a whole different thing.


Night trains already make long stops. When I went to Milan from Vienna our train was parked somewhere along the border for 2 hours. Same happened when going from Munich to Amsterdam, train sat in cologne for hours. 

I think HSR night trains could make longer overnight journeys more possible


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## Baron Hirsch

Yes, Wilhelm, of course there is no point in running a 4 hour HSR with sleepers at midnight from Berlin to Munich. The idea would be to make long overnight runs such as London - Barcelona, London - Berlin, Berlin - Rome, Paris - Vienna. Such runs would initially be expensive and cater to a small audience, but maybe this would change over time and with the planned lowering of network access fees, who knows. And since Elipsos with its rather prohibitive prices managed to fill its beds and seats, why not. Overnight maintenance of lines would of course have to be changed, but as these trains will not be so numerous, one could possibly just limit the hours for maintenance. Or as in Germany, periodically close the lines, rather than closing them every night.


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## Wilhem275

Well, that could be an idea. Even with the existing 200 km/h cars, much less expensive and more flexible than true HSTs, it would be enough speed to cover long distances overnight (provided that the HSLs advantage is the ability to mantain the top speed for long stretches).

Another advantage of using HSLs is that they're basically flat and straight, this should help those who find it difficult to sleep on a train. Especially running at 200 on a 300 line 

But maintenance is still a problem. HSR needs a constant control of the track alignment to guarantee 300+ km/h. I appreciate the German way of heavy overhauls once in a while but it could hardly be applied to HSR; it would mean having severe speed limits for weeks or months before the overhaul.

This is not a heavy limit for night trains operations: those trains would run in limited numbers anyway, hardly more than 4-6 per night on the most crowded corridors, so it shouldn't be a problem to fix them in between maintenance operations (single track, reduced speed, etc.).


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## Verso

We missed this news from January: the Styrian parliament decided to build again a railway from Bad Radkersburg to Slovenia (Gornja Radgona), including a border bridge over the Mur, which was blown up by Nazis in 1945. I believe Slovenia will construct its missing part as well. :cheers:

http://steiermark.orf.at/news/stories/2753309/


----------



## dimlys1994

From Global Rail News:



> http://www.globalrailnews.com/2016/06/13/obb-launches-worlds-first-live-onboard-tv-service/
> 
> *ÖBB launches world’s first live onboard TV service*
> 13 JUN, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Austrian Federal Railways (ÖBB), in partnership with Nomad Digital, has launched the railway’s first live onboard TV service.
> 
> Delivered in time for the European Football Championships in France, the service is now in use on two Railjet trains. Nomad has described it as the first live TV broadcast on a train anywhere in the world
> 
> ...


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## nachalnik

Tender for new coaches for long distance trains (daytime and overnight trains):
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/europe/obb-seeks-new-coaches-and-dmus.html

Also in German language:
http://www.eurailpress.de/news/wirt...ebb-schreiben-neue-fernverkehrswagen-aus.html
http://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:215685-2016:TEXT:DE:HTML&src=0


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## Harbornite

Good to see that OBB are continuing to invest in locomotive hauled stock. I do like the Taurus locos.


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## KingNick

Finally some control cars. I hope they'll order enough for the domestic ICs as well, not just for the München - Italy EC.


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## AlexNL

Robi_damian said:


> Does RZD risk a suspension of rights to use the segment?


That depends on how RZD handles the situation, and on how frequently it occurs. If this is the first time that it has happened and RZD can come up with a list of measures they will take to prevent this from happening again, they'll be fine.


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## o0ink

rheintram said:


> Crazy for a low population village like Bad Vigaun...


Right! It's really crazy - also Kuchl Garnei or Puch Urstein (okay, at least there is the FH) got such stations in the past. Millions of € for just a few passengers a day. I passed by Bad Vigaun during my daily route to my office - in the morning / afternoon rush hour mostly there where only 0-5 people getting in or off the train. The station is just too far away from the village - that's why nobody uses it.

I hope they also will find some € for a whole new Hallein train station. The city would absolutely deserve it as the government of Hallein does a good job in attracting the cities image more and more. But then there is this really dirty and old, dark train station. hno:


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## KingNick

Hallein is hideous indeed. Must be the the only station of 10,000+ inhabitants town that hasn't been renovated thus far. At least I couldn't think of another one right now.


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## rheintram

I could tell you several... Hard for one.


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## KingNick

I Hard-ly ever make it past Salzburg, so that area is kind of a blind spot for me.


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## o0ink

I can count the ones for Salzburg: Zell am See, Saalfelden and Hallein are cities with more than 10K inhabitants and a train station looking like an alien. 
And then there are some bigger villages like Golling, Werfen or Schwarzach with an old fashioned strain station - but they did some modern updates as well as fresh paintings within the last few years. And the style and - let's say vintage architecture - of Werfen and Gollings train stations feel pretty charming sometimes tbh.


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## rower2000

rheintram said:


> I could tell you several... Hard for one.


To be fair, that's going to happen within the next three years, together with the two-track extension of Lauterach West -> Hard-Fußach.


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## rheintram

Rescue services in Tyrol conducted an exercise in the Brenner Base Tunnel's recue tunnel near Ampass and Tulfes.









http://tirol.orf.at/news/stories/2802020/

About 100 fire fighters and medics and two emergency rescue trains were involved.


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## Eulanthe

Hi everyone,

I'm doing some research into Vienna-Bratislava trains, and I have some questions. I'd appreciate any and all answers, even if it's just a small anecdote.

1) Why did trains go via Bratislava-Petrzalka if there was already an existing connection via Marchegg to Bratislava hl.st.?

I know the line to Bratislava-Petrzalka opened in 1998, but I haven't found any reference to the line via Marchegg - if it was open all along, why was the route via Petrzalka opened?

2) Does anyone know if passport controls were carried out in Bratislava-Petrzalka and in Bratislava hl.st. - or were they carried out on-board?

3) Is there a long term plan to consolidate Vienna-Bratislava trains into one line, or will they continue to run via both Marchegg and Kittsee?

Thank you very much in advance


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## rudiwien

Eulanthe said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm doing some research into Vienna-Bratislava trains, and I have some questions. I'd appreciate any and all answers, even if it's just a small anecdote.
> 
> 1) Why did trains go via Bratislava-Petrzalka if there was already an existing connection via Marchegg to Bratislava hl.st.?
> 
> I know the line to Bratislava-Petrzalka opened in 1998, but I haven't found any reference to the line via Marchegg - if it was open all along, why was the route via Petrzalka opened?


It is not a totally new line, it was just not continous after WW2; the last part has been reconnected (quite some time...) after the the opening of the borders.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostbahn_(Österreich)#Zweigbahn_Parndorf.E2.80.93Bratislava

Also, the railway serves a regional purpose for both Austrians and Slowaks commuting to Bratislava or Vienna from the villages the track passes through (quite some Slovaks now live in Kittsee and other places, but work in Bratislava)

Also the local train (kind-of tram) from Vienna to Bratislava via Hainburg ended in Petrzalka: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressburger_Bahn



Eulanthe said:


> Hi everyone,
> 2) Does anyone know if passport controls were carried out in Bratislava-Petrzalka and in Bratislava hl.st. - or were they carried out on-board?



Towards hl.st., you were controlled on the train. Towards Petrzlaka, there was a border control in the station, for both arrival and departure, with no further controls. So an area where you kind-of left the country, but were still in there - like in an airport 
Also there was no change of conductors etc in the border stations, anyhow, the train travels just a couple of minutes in Slovakia.



Eulanthe said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> 3) Is there a long term plan to consolidate Vienna-Bratislava trains into one line, or will they continue to run via both Marchegg and Kittsee?
> 
> Thank you very much in advance



I don't think see, both lines do serve not only as direct Vienna-Bratislava line, but rather regional commuters. In fact, there are very few to almost no Intercity/Eurocity style trains, but mostly regional and "regional epress" (ReX) trains.

Current efforts (started just recently, for some parts in/close to Vienna) are in electrifying the Marchegg branch, and partially doubling the line. Full duplication is decades away, though.


----------



## Slartibartfas

^^ Indeed. those two lines are not redundant at all. They serve two totally different commuter corridors. "Consolidating" them would be a massive reduction in service quality. 

What we may see however is that finally some real intercity or express service is going to be launched in the years to come. Once the Marchegger Ast is completely electric, RJ, EC or IC trains could be easily continued from Wien Hbf to Bratislava hl. St., where travellers have direct connections to a multiute of Slovak trains. 

Petrzalka, as it is today, isn't really a good option for such an intercity destination as it lacks the connections of hl. St.


----------



## TedStriker

Austria’s rail system ‘like a heart that pumps heat around Europe’

*Operator ÖBB’s grand claim reflects network’s central role, influence but high cost*

by: *Andrew Byrne*

FT.com. 3rd November 2016

Austria’s state-owned rail operator ÖBB can seem omnipresent. Its fingerprints appear to be everywhere, from valuable real estate developments at historic Vienna train stations to the halls of the federal government, where ÖBB’s former chief executive Christian Kern has been chancellor since May.

That a state railway company is so prominent underlines the importance of transport infrastructure for Austrian business. The World Economic Forum ranked Austria 14th in the world for infrastructure in its 2016 competitiveness index. That places it just behind neighbouring Germany (eighth) and Switzerland (sixth) — but Austria would rank even higher if the analysis were limited to road and rail, says Michael Peneder, a researcher at the Austrian Institute of Economic Research, which compiled the local data for the study.

This state of the art transport infrastructure and Austria’s economic wellbeing are inextricably linked, says Andreas Matthä, ÖBB chief executive.

“You need a modern, good infrastructure — in rail, roads and broadband — to support business,” he says. “Austria lies along four out of Europe's nine major goods transport corridors, so we’re in a remarkably good economic and geographical position. You can think of it like a heart that pumps heat around the European system.”

Austria’s public investment of €258 per capita in railways in 2012 was second only in Europe to Switzerland’s, at €349. The UK spent €110 per head.

Analysts say the price is worth it for the country’s outsized tourism and logistics sectors. Herbert Kasser, secretary-general at the Ministry for Transport, Innovation and Technology, says the benefits are even broader, citing greater labour mobility, access to commodities, tourism and opening up new markets for Austrian firms.

“This all results in long-term productivity gains and economic growth,” he says, citing a study suggesting that for every €68,000 spent on railway capital stock, an extra job is created.

Mr Peneder adds: “Business generally seeks locations that are well connected, easily accessible and attractive for people to work in.”

VCÖ, a transport lobby group, points to improvements in rail frequency, connections and upgrades to rolling stock and stations over the past 10 years. “Austrians speak with ‘modest pride’ about the progress of the rail industry,” says Ulla Rasmussen, VCÖ’s international transport policy co-ordinator.

The development of medium-term, six-year public investment programmes has been important to rail improvements, which involve risk analysis methods to prevent cost and time overruns.

This level of expertise has allowed Austrian engineers and planners to expand their horizons to international transport mega-projects such as the multibillion-euro Brenner Base Tunnel. Scheduled for completion in 2026, the world’s longest underground railway connection will burrow 55km through the eastern Alps to connect Innsbruck in Austria with Fortezza in Italy.

“There is a long-term strategy behind all of this,” says Konrad Bergmeister, chief executive of BBT SE, the Austrian-Italian company behind the Brenner tunnel. “Austria is a country where tourism is a governing factor. To go from Italy to Germany or from east Europe to west, you need to cross the country. This might explain why transport technology and investment is so well developed here.”

Companies such as ÖBB are also innovating in response to changing customer demand. ÖBB has announced it will experiment with reviving some of Europe’s night-train services, which have been slowly disappearing.

Mr Matthä says ÖBB will also launch a pilot scheme offering customers access to a fleet of cars to drive from train stations to their destination, initially partnering with Flinkster, a car-sharing company.

Little of this would be possible without large-scale public investment. ÖBB staff members speak with pride about their rail services that are publicly owned and operated, in contrast with the UK’s semi-privatised rail system.

“The railways and roads are an important backbone for our economy. So it is right to have state influence,” says Mr Matthä. “What we also notice is that integrating the railway company into the country’s infrastructure produces clearly better performance.”

VCÖ, the lobby group, argues Austria should aim to match Switzerland’s per capita train usage by 2025. It says the average Swiss resident travels 2,429km by train per year — the highest in Europe — compared with 1,426km for Austrians, who rank second.

Rail enthusiasts believe investment in trains is good for the planet and will help cut carbon emissions. Austria, with its large logistics sector, has not met reduction targets under the EU’s 2020 programme.

“Investment in a more environmentally friendly transport system is inevitable if we want to reach our common climate goals,” Mr Kasser says.


----------



## nachalnik

Austrian Federal Railways are planning to buy new rolling stock for overnight trains. 
Now they built a mock-up for a 2-bed-compartment (with private bathroom) and a 4-bed-compartment to get feedback from the public.
See also https://www.facebook.com/unsereOEBB/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1464219583607467. The mock-up can be visited till 15th december (mon-fri except 8th december, from 10 am tio 6 pm) at the OeBB headquarter next to Vienna main station.







2-bed-compartment:






Lower bed:








Power sockets (22V + USB):


Small table:


Monitor:


Door:


Upper bed:








Bathroom:








4-bed compartment:












Upper beds:








Lower beds:









Nachalnik


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## Baron Hirsch

Not bad. I find the idea to make the sleeper look more like a lounge and the beds in daytime mode like a sofa a good and overdue innovation. As with the previous mock-up couchette cars, the question pops up: where's the luggage? People these days travel with enormous suitcases, they need space, but most transport companies, no matter whether train or plane or ferry, find these a waste of space. Was there some space for them, perhaps more profound space beneath the beds, or so?


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## Nexis

Austria Fast trains 160 km/h - 200 km/h - 230 km/h - Westbahn - Wienerwaldtunnel Westportal [4K]


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## KingNick

ÖBB needs to work on the design of the RJ locos. I absolutely hate it when they are coupled the wrong way (yes, I am aware of the reason why they do it). Make it bi-directional already.


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## webeagle12

KingNick said:


> ÖBB needs to work on the design of the RJ locos. I absolutely hate it when they are coupled the wrong way (yes, I am aware of the reason why they do it). Make it bi-directional already.


Would you like to pay for all that extra costs?


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## KingNick

webeagle12 said:


> Would you like to pay for all that extra costs?


At some point they have to be repainted anyway.


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## Rebasepoiss

I'm surprised that a 200+ km/h line isn't fenced off or do these guys have a special permission?


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## KingNick

No fences.


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## Rebasepoiss

It seems a bit dangerous, especially after the German accident. I'm actually surprised it's even allowed to build a 250 km/h line without any fences.


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## KingNick

Cows and sheep are not running around freely in Austria, unless they are high up in the mountains.


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## Ghostpoet

http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...-from-bombardier-and-siemens.html?channel=000



> The Administrative Court in Vienna has rejected an appeal by Stadler against Austrian Federal Railways’ (ÖBB) decision to award Bombardier a framework contract for up to 300 EMUs.
> 
> Stadler had sought to overturn the decision because it believed Bombardier had miscalculated the lifecycle costs in its bid.
> The court’s decision enables ÖBB to place an initial firm order for 21 100m-long Talent 3 EMUs, which will be delivered by 2019 for use on the Vorarlberg S-Bahn system. Further trains will be ordered for Tyrol when a new public service obligation (PSO) contract has been concluded with the province.
> ÖBB has also confirmed it order 64 additional Cityjet EMUs from Siemens to replace class 4020 trains on the Vienna S-Bahn network. So far ÖBB has ordered 101 Cityjets from a framework contract for up to 200 trains.
> This means that the new Bombardier Talent 3 EMUs will not be used around Vienna. One reason is that it would not be economic to use one more EMU type on S-Bahn services, which are currently operated by a mixture of class 4020s, class 4024/4124 (Talent 1), Class 4746 (Cityjet) and push-pull sets.
> If ÖBB had opted for Talent 3s for Vienna, delivery could only have started after the completion of the trains for Vorarlberg and Tyrol. This would have forced ÖBB to extend the life of the class 4020s with costly overhauls.


regards, Ghostpoet


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## Nexis

Rebasepoiss said:


> I'm surprised that a 200+ km/h line isn't fenced off or do these guys have a special permission?


I doubt they do , but Trespassing is common in the European Train community...I don't think they take things seriously..


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## Slartibartfas

S-Bahn Oberösterreich was launched yesterday.

The greater Linz area gets an S-Bahn network. The change to the previous regional train system is only gradual however, network map and S-Bahn logo aside. So we are talking here mainly about a rebranding and an improvement of existing services There are 5 lines, all lead to and terminate at Linz Hbf. The one substantial thing about this transformation is that frequencies have been partially improved, especially also at late hours and previous gaps. And further improvements are planned in the mid-term.

The system runs mainly on an hourly frequency, at least on the central parts, with mostly 30 min during rush hour, with the inner S4 even operating on a 15 min frequency during peak time. 









http://oekastatic.orf.at/static/images/site/oeka/20161040/sbahn.5525298.png


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## Nexis

*4k Führerstandsmitfahrt Brenner - Innsbruck mit BR 186*


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## KingNick

Siemens continues to dominate the loco market in Austria after winning the tender for 200 freight locos today. Very curious about the six-axle locos already. Special Vectrons?



> *SIEMENS has emerged as preferred bidder for a contract to supply up to 200 electric freight locomotives to Austrian Federal Railways (ÖBB).*
> 
> The framework contract calls for 100 standard freight locomotives, 50 Last Mile locomotives equipped with a 1.8MW diesel engine, and 50 six-axle Last Mile locomotives, which will be fitted with a 5MW diesel engine.
> 
> Siemens' Vectron family does not currently include any six-axle locomotives and those with Last Mile equipment have a maximum output of 180kW in diesel mode.
> 
> Detailed concepts for the new locomotives will be revealed after a 10-day appeal period has lapsed.


http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...or-electric-locomotive-order.html?channel=528


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## Nexis

*4k Führerstandsmitfahrt BR193 von Kiefersfelden zum Brenner (über Innsbruck)*


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## Ghostpoet

http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...lass-2016-diesel-locomotives.html?channel=528



> AUSTRIAN Federal Railways (ÖBB) has issued a tender for the purchase of up to 19 second-hand Siemens ER20 Eurorunner diesel locomotives (ÖBB class 2016).
> ÖBB currently operates a fleet of 100 of the four-axle diesel locomotives and a further five units are owned by Rail Cargo Austria’s (RCA) German subsidiary PCT (class 223).
> RCA is already using some class 2016s in Slovenia and Croatia, but additional locomotives are needed in Austria and RCA wants to use more class 2016s on freight trains in eastern Europe. The type is already approved for operation in Hungary, Slovakia and Czech Republic in addition to Slovenia and Croatia.
> Second-hand locomotives are being sought because the recent tender for new electric locomotives did not result in any offers for units with high-powered diesel engines for use on non-electrified lines outside Austria.
> Siemens no longer produces the ER20 which means ÖBB will have to obtain existing locomotives from other operators or leasing companies.
> The tender calls for 19 individual contracts so offers from various owners could be accepted simultaneously. One of the candidates is Austrian open-access operator RTS which recently downsized its business and has some surplus class 2016 on its roster.
> The deadline for submission of offers is February 24.


Ghostpoet


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## rheintram

A foehn (southern wind) storm caused an interruption of rail services on the Arlbergbahn line today:



















http://tirol.orf.at/news/stories/2829098/


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## Nexis

*Cab Ride | ÖBB 1116 | Wien Hbf - St. Pölten Hbf*


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## KingNick

In before "but why are there no fences?". :lol:


----------



## da_scotty

What is the service/comfort level on the EUROCITY budapest-vienna train like? We booked the EC instead of the Railjet (sparschiene tickets where available on the EC section). It's only 3 min (how come?) shorter then the RJ service. 

Plus how is the reservation enforced, we opted for compartment window seats (no compartment trains in NL so more fun) . I presume we will be seated together as we are on one booking, or could we be split?

Thanks in advance.


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## rudiwien

- Railjet comfort is debatable; In my personal view, seats have less cushion, and armrests are hard and very narrow. The tables are however quite good if you want to get some work done (though in your case that might not be very important  )

- On this track, Railjet is a waste anyhow, because it can't use its maximum speed anywhere, the track is not fit for more than 160 km/h, so that's why times are normally identical at around 2:40.

If you book Sparschiene, you normally have a reservation included, if you already booked it, I think you can't change that anymore. Reservation is not needed normally to Budapest, so you can also freely select places that are not booked (normally indicated, but it depends on the train, sometimes it might not be in older ECs that have no electronic display and where the personell was maybe not putting the papers), so you might be asked by someone to vacate the seat..

Have a nice trip!


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## da_scotty

We Booked the ec, although we Will taken railjet on another section.

But is comfort in the eurocity to budapest good? The non railjet train i mean!

And do you know why the ec is 3min longer then the railjet, it doesnt matter, Just interested as a train geek! Loper speed or more stops?


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## Balkanada

I think a difference of 3 minutes is way too marginal for there to be any reason anyone can name for that difference being there...


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## rudiwien

This is anyhow not a systematic difference Railjet <-> EC: some Railjets also go 2:40, and the EN in the morning 2:45, and the EN in the evening 2:41..
So likely simply some operational deviations...

EC means likely this carriage:











Softer cushions, tray tables at the window, usually 2 power plugs, ... All you need normally


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## Robi_damian

rudiwien said:


> EC means likely this carriage:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Softer cushions, tray tables at the window, usually 2 power plugs, ... All you need normally


THIS. This is far superior to any comfort aboard trains built after 2000. I even opened a thread on this topic. Sad to see train design sacrifice passenger comfort. Some airlines now have more comfortable seating than trains, which is outrageous.


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## nachalnik

Regarding the 3min difference:
Usually travel time is 2h40 (Wien Hbf .39 -Budapest Keleti .19) fro RJ- and EC-trains.

RJ trains to Budapest usually come from Munich and are combined with another RJ-unit running from Innsbruck/Bregenz to Vienna airport between Salzburg and Wien Hbf. The two RJ-units are coupled in Salzburg and split again at Wien Hbf. The section to Vienna airport is usually the rear unit (as it arrives at Salzburg later than the unit coming form Munich) and departs at .42.
There are however some exceptions and then the RJ unit to the airport is the 1st unit. In this case trains to the airport and to Budapest change their slots, the airport train leaves at .39 and the Budapest train at .42. As far as I know, this is the case at 9h42, 15h42 and 18h42 departures from Wien Hbf to Budapest.

As the train slot further east beyond the point where the line to the airport branches off is the same every hour, the trains just leave at different minutes from Wien Hbf, but arrive Budapest at the same minute in any hour.
They just have less buffer time between Wien Hbf and Hegyeshalom (the next station) and more buffer time between Wien Hbf and the airport in that case, but it has nothing to do with the rolling stock. Just a matter of timetable slot planning....



Regarding the EC-trains: 
Rolling stock is provided by MAV (Hungarian Railways) for EC 148/145 and EC 344/345. 
EC 140/147 is operated with PKP (Polish railways) rolling stock, as the waggons are operated in combination with EC 102/103:
day 1: Warszawa ~6h45 - Wien Hbf arr 13h49; dep 16h39 - Nyiregyahaza ~23h05
day 2: Nyiregyhaza ~4h55 - Wien Hbf arr 11h21; dep 14h10 - Warszawa ~21h15
(two sets of waggons are in use)


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## KingNick

rudiwien said:


> This is anyhow not a systematic difference Railjet <-> EC: some Railjets also go 2:40, and the EN in the morning 2:45, and the EN in the evening 2:41..
> So likely simply some operational deviations...
> 
> EC means likely this carriage:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Softer cushions, tray tables at the window, usually 2 power plugs, ... All you need normally


Nope, rolling stock for the EC is provided by MAV and not ÖBB.


----------



## webeagle12

Robi_damian said:


> Some airlines now have more comfortable seating than trains, which is outrageous.


I beg to differ.. in sardine can unless its first/business class


----------



## Robi_damian

webeagle12 said:


> I beg to differ.. in sardine can unless its first/business class


Increasingly less of a difference with many rail carriers, with their upright seats, lack of any compartimentation, etc.


----------



## doc7austin

Riding the ÖBB Nightjet train Hamburg - Zürich.
The sleeper train is operated by ÖBB, though, the train doesn't touch Austria.


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## Surel

Semmering


----------



## Slartibartfas

Finally, Vienna-Venice is added to the Railjet network in December. Travel time won't change compard to the EC but there will be 2 direct trains, instead of one per day, additionally to the night train connection.


----------



## Verso

When will Railjet reach Slovenia where it's actually manufactured? :colbert:


----------



## vitacit

Verso said:


> When will Railjet reach Slovenia where it's actually manufactured? :colbert:


i took a trip bratislava - ljubljana - bratislava two weeks ago and considering rather large rail reconstructions around maribor and celje i guess railjet might reach slovenia soon. however, as a problematic i see track around sava river. too curvy, rocks... some tunnels could be bult there.


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## rudiwien

I'm not sure why you are eager to get rail jet, the comfort level is in my opinion not great, some of the older carriages have much better seats..

Regarding the track, for some stupid (marketing) reason, the rail jet is crawling also over the Semmering. It's not very worth, but if it can travel there, I'm sure it could go in Slovenia as well already now 

But as long as you can't actually go more than 160km/h, there isn't really a purpose for it...


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## Slartibartfas

I do think the ICE is nicer than the Raijet in terms of interior but I also don't get the hate some show against the Railjet. Especially since they stopped the travesty of the "buffet" cars and installed at least half a proper dining car. The economy seating is fine by my standards and in the higher classes it is actually very nice. 

Regarding the Semmering, well it's an old story. They are finally working on that, for real. Once Semmering and Koralmbahn will be finished, a fast train will make perfectly sense on the Vienna-Graz-Klagenfurt corridor and also as a continuation to Venice.



Verso said:


> When will Railjet reach Slovenia where it's actually manufactured? :colbert:


I thought the Railjet is mainly manufactured in Graz and Vienna, did they change something or what are you referring to?


----------



## KingNick

Slartibartfas said:


> I thought the Railjet is mainly manufactured in Graz and Vienna, did they change something or what are you referring to?


Parts used to be manufactured in Maribor, but that is no longer the case, IIRC.


----------



## rudiwien

Slartibartfas said:


> I do think the ICE is nicer than the Raijet in terms of interior but I also don't get the hate some show against the Railjet. Especially since they stopped the travesty of the "buffet" cars and installed at least half a proper dining car. The economy seating is fine by my standards and in the higher classes it is actually very nice.
> 
> Regarding the Semmering, well it's an old story. They are finally working on that, for real. Once Semmering and Koralmbahn will be finished, a fast train will make perfectly sense on the Vienna-Graz-Klagenfurt corridor and also as a continuation to Venice.



I don't hate the Railjet - I just think they are less nice in design (colours, window transparency!) than the older IC/EC of ÖBB, and yes, also ICE trains. Plus, the seats are a bit less comfy (less cushion), and the armrest is very small, and hard, that was better in the IC/EC trains.

But what I mostly dislike is going over the Semmering and having a display that tells me, yes, indeed, we just go 55km/h....
Yes, they are working on the tunnels, but this will still take 6-10 years, and having the RailJet in use *then*, when they can actually go a bit faster on some of the track, would be totally sufficient...


----------



## Slartibartfas

Well, I suppose seating is also a matter of taste. I like the head support of Railjet seating and could not say I felt any significant reduction in cusion or comfort. I haven't done a proper investigation into that matter however. 

Yes, the Semmering tunnel is a long story but it is cetainly not the ÖBB's fault. What you seem to mind is that the Railjet is being used on main corridors which are still regular speed (or below). I don't see the big issue there however. The beauty of the Ralijet concept is their universal applicability for any IC/EC or moderate high speed connection. I don't mind its use for any of that, what I do mind however is that everything is called "Railjet" nowadays. There must be some idiots in the marketing department who think that calling everything "Railjet" will make everything look fast. But instead they are merely making the term "Railjet" meaningless and nondescriptive. Previously it was clear that a Railjet won't stop in Amstetten and other smaller regional hubs. Now you can't say anything anymore and you have to study the timetable in detail.


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## Slartibartfas

*New timetable Dec. 2017- Dec. 2018* 
Some of the changes in international rail services

*Regiojet Vienna-Prague*
This is crazy. I might have missed the news here, but it was new to me that *Regiojet *is launching a *Praha-Wien* rail service in a month. Their Student Agency buses are known for their highly competitive pricing while offering top notch modern couches. Now they extended their rail based operations to Vienna as well.

I don't know if those prices are just a launch gimmick but a train ride Praha-Vienna, one way, for 15 €, for a leather seat, with screen, onboard entertainment system, free newspapers and one free hot drink. Travel time is 4:12 h instead of 3:57-4:04 h with the Railjet. 

The price for a railjet ride Vienna-Praha is 43,90 €, standard price with Vorteilscard. Even the train bound discount tickets one has to book in advance and are limited in number did not go below 19 € until now (even though when I had a quick look I could only finde 29€ tickets). With the new competition, miraculously there will be 14 € tickets available by ÖBB. 

*Additional trains/connections to Prague, Brno and Katowice*

*REX Vienna - Bratislava - Kosice* (1 daily connection, travel time Vienna-Kosice: 6:15 h)
What another pleasant surprise. Finally there is at least any direct connection beyond Bratislava. This connection isn't faster than previous ones with one transfer but direct connections are always more relaxed as one does not need to catch another train. It is a bit disappointing however that the train needs to stop for a whopping 23 min in Bratislava, which is why the direct connection isn't faster than the best transfer connection. Maybe they can streamline that as well eventually. 

*Extending daily Munich-Verona train to Bologna
*
*Railjet Vienna-Venice*
We had that one already, an additional daily train to Venice.3 trains per day are a substantial improvement over 2. 

*ICE Vienna - Frankfurt *
Travel time is cut by half an hour (6:21 instead of 6:46)


----------



## rheintram

Railjets are better than Eurofima EC cars if you want to actually work on the train. The latter are rather comfortable and despite their age still in great shape. Yet many lack tables (for some reason, some of them only have these rounded ones near the windows) and the seats are not good for sitting upright either. Compartment cars are the worst and I used to avoid them at all cost (I do realize others really loved compartments...).


----------



## nachalnik

Slartibartfas said:


> *New timetable Dec. 2017- Dec. 2018*
> Some of the changes in international rail services
> 
> *Regiojet Vienna-Prague*
> This is crazy. I might have missed the news here, but it was new to me that *Regiojet *is launching a *Praha-Wien* rail service in a month. Their Student Agency buses are known for their highly competitive pricing while offering top notch modern couches. Now they extended their rail based operations to Vienna as well.
> 
> I don't know if those prices are just a launch gimmick but a train ride Praha-Vienna, one way, for 15 €, for a leather seat, with screen, onboard entertainment system, free newspapers and one free hot drink. Travel time is 4:12 h instead of 3:57-4:04 h with the Railjet.
> 
> The price for a railjet ride Vienna-Praha is 43,90 €, standard price with Vorteilscard. Even the train bound discount tickets one has to book in advance and are limited in number did not go below 19 € until now (even though when I had a quick look I could only finde 29€ tickets). With the new competition, miraculously there will be 14 € tickets available by ÖBB.
> 
> *Additional trains/connections to Prague, Brno and Katowice*


More details regarding that:

New departure from Vienna to Brno at 21h10 (existing Graz - Wien train will be extended to Brno)

New arrival from Prague at Vienna at 8h49 (4h49 from Prague, 7h23 from Brno, continues to Graz)

Existing train 100/101 Vienna - Bohumin - Vienna will be extended to/from Katowice (dep from Vienna at 18h10, arr at Vienna at 9h49).



> *REX Vienna - Bratislava - Kosice* (1 daily connection, travel time Vienna-Kosice: 6:15 h)
> What another pleasant surprise. Finally there is at least any direct connection beyond Bratislava. This connection isn't faster than previous ones with one transfer but direct connections are always more relaxed as one does not need to catch another train. It is a bit disappointing however that the train needs to stop for a whopping 23 min in Bratislava, which is why the direct connection isn't faster than the best transfer connection. Maybe they can streamline that as well eventually.


On the one hand a loco-change at Bratislava is necessary (diesel-loco between Vienna and Bratislava), and on the other hand it's just a combination of two existing trains (REX Vienna - Bratislava, IC Bratislava - Kosice) which are both part of "takt"-patterns, which can't be modified so easily (especially if there is just one daily direct service).

It's IMO a 1st step for better connections to Slovakia, further steps will follow once an electrified line between Vienna and Bratislava via Marchegg is available...

BTW, there is already now a direct service Vienna - Kosice. Not during the day, but as a direct overnight service. A sleeping car of Slovak Railways connects Vienna and Kosice via Breclav - Bohumin - Zilina.


Also new:
A direct Vienna - Lviv - Kyiv sleeping car will be provided by Ukrainian Railways from dec 11th.
Vienna dep 16h42 - Lviv arr 10h10 - Kyiv arr 17h11
Kyiv dep 14h07 - Lviv dep 21h00 - Vienna arr 11h21

And unfortunately the Budapest/Vienna - Berlin overnight train will be cancelled by MAV (Hungarian Railways, they had commercial responisibility for that train), leaving Vienna - Berlin without any attractive, direct rail service.


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## nachalnik

Slartibartfas said:


> The price for a railjet ride Vienna-Praha is 43,90 €, standard price with Vorteilscard.


BTW, it's always cheaper to buy standard fares from www.cd.cz, as CD calculates a lower fare for the Czech section.
Standard price with VC is 867 CZK/34 EUR (without VC: 1074 CZK/42 EUR).

Also it's always worth checking both www.oebb.at and www.cd.cz for train bound tickets...

Ticket-splitting (at Brno or Breclav) can also sometimes reduce the price, as CD has - espeicially for Prague - Brno - often very cheap offers for domestic routes...


----------



## volodaaaa

Hi guys, greetings from neighbours. I just want to ask you what are your experiences with pedal draisines. Was it worth it? Did you sell the tracks or just let them?

Thanx


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## touya

Slartibartfas said:


> *ICE Vienna - Frankfurt *
> Travel time is cut by half an hour (6:21 instead of 6:46)


What's the reason for the half an hour time saving? I don't remember of any important works on these trains' route?


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## Josp64

Come on!

In Austria the whole route from Passau to Vienna is on work, since more than 20 years, so it is actually possible to offer shorter travel times!


----------



## touya

All right, I seemed to remember the remaining works east of Linz to be completed in 2018/2019, not in 2017, but a quick check on OEBB Infrastrukur website confirms that at least the eastern approach to Linz and the St. Polten freight bypass are to be opened in December 2017. 
Still, 30 min seems a lot. Have the ICE trains been routed on the slow line so far along with regio trains? Are there improvements in Germany perhaps? Maybe there a different route is taken?


----------



## nachalnik

ÖBB is buying 21 new trainsets (for day- and overnight-trains). Siemens gave the best offer in the tendering process:


https://www.ots.at/presseaussendung...ag-und-nachtverkehr-an-bestbieter-ist-siemens


_ÖBB schaffen neue Fernverkehrszüge für den Tag- und Nachtverkehr an: Bestbieter ist Siemens

Wien (OTS) - Die ÖBB erneuern ihren Fuhrpark und investieren in die Fernverkehrsflotte. Derzeit läuft ein Vergabeverfahren für eine Rahmenvereinbarung zur Lieferung von Zügen für den Tag- und Nachtverkehr. In einem ersten Schritt werden 21 Züge mit einem Volumen von ca. 375 Millionen Euro abgerufen. 
Die Angebotsfrist endete am Freitag, den 29. Juni 2018. Die Angebotsprüfung wurde heute abgeschlossen und der Bestbieter ermittelt: Es handelt sich um die Siemens Mobility GmbH. Alle Bieter wurden bereits informiert. Mit der Zustellung der Mitteilung an den Ausschreibungsgewinner hat gleichzeitig eine 10-tägige Stillhaltefrist begonnen. Danach wird die Vergabe endgültig. 
Nach dem Ende der Stillhaltefrist werden die ÖBB Näheres zum Verfahren bekanntgeben. 

*ÖBB: Österreichs größter Mobilitätsdienstleister
*Als umfassender Mobilitätsdienstleister bringt der ÖBB-Konzern jährlich 459 Millionen Fahrgäste und 115 Millionen Tonnen Güter umweltfreundlich ans Ziel. 92 Prozent des Bahnstroms stammen aus erneuerbaren Energieträgern, zu 90 Prozent aus Wasserkraft. Die ÖBB gehörten 2017 mit rund 96 Prozent Pünktlichkeit zu den pünktlichsten Bahnen Europas. Konzernweit sorgen 41.107 MitarbeiterInnen bei Bahn und Bus (zusätzlich rund 1.900 Lehrlinge) dafür, dass täglich rund 1,3 Millionen Reisende sicher an ihr Ziel kommen. Strategische Leitgesellschaft des Konzerns ist die ÖBB-Holding AG.

Rückfragen & Kontakt:
ÖBB-Holding AG Mag. Bernhard Rieder Pressesprecher +43 1 93000 32233 [email protected] www.oebb.at_


----------



## da_scotty

Are there renders of the new trains?


----------



## Baron Hirsch

As the statement above says, both parties are obliged not to disclose details for another 10 days. The community is generally speculating that the offer is based on Siemens' Viaggio line, which comprises both current Czech and Austrian RailJets and modern RZD night trains: https://www.siemens.com/global/de/h.../schienenverkehr/fahrzeuge/reisezugwagen.html
If you go a few pages back on this thread, you will also find the mockups ÖBB had set up in order to get customer feedback on future design of sleepers and couchettes, which might have informed the present tender: https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=488081&page=67 and https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=488081&page=63 (Danke, Genosse Nachalnik)
But we will learn more in two weeks.


----------



## da_scotty

cheers!


----------



## KingNick

Baron Hirsch said:


> As the statement above says, both parties are obliged not to disclose details for another 10 days. The community is generally speculating that the offer is based on Siemens' Viaggio line, which comprises both current Czech and Austrian RailJets and modern RZD night trains: https://www.siemens.com/global/de/h.../schienenverkehr/fahrzeuge/reisezugwagen.html
> If you go a few pages back on this thread, you will also find the mockups ÖBB had set up in order to get customer feedback on future design of sleepers and couchettes, which might have informed the present tender: https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=488081&page=67 and https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=488081&page=63 (Danke, Genosse Nachalnik)
> But we will learn more in two weeks.


That's not what the 10 days Stillhaltefrist is about. During those 10 days, defeated tenderers are able to have the award decision of ÖBB reviewed by the federal administrative court and ÖBB is not allowed to award the contract to Siemens yet.


----------



## BHT

Design of interior of new Siemens Viaggio trainsets:























































Source and more renders: http://www.priestmangoode.com/project/new-intercity-and-nightjet/


----------



## Vaud

^^ those windows are huge. I'm surprised they've managed to make the carriage sufficiently resistant to knock-over accidents with those skinny frames!


----------



## Grotlaufen

*Koralm tunnel*

The first tunnel, the southern one, on the Koralmbahn was completed on 14th of August:

https://kaernten.orf.at/news/stories/2930180/


----------



## cz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed9YMajxiAk&feature=youtu.be

Video teaser for a film about Zechner & Zechner Architects' project GRAZ CENTRAL RAILWAY STATION (Graz Hauptbahnhof).


----------



## KingNick

According to the CEO of ÖBB Infra (network access operator) the connection to Bratislava via Marchegg will be operated at speeds up to 200 km/h once construction is finished in 2023.

German source: https://noe.orf.at/news/stories/2933097/


----------



## Qwert

Finally!

:dance:


----------



## rheintram

From Dec. 2019 there will be a direct Bozen/Bolzano - Vienna service via Brenner/Brennero.


----------



## bench_mark_2

I wonder why there is no high speed connection or even plans for such to Western Europe (which is Paris via some German city like Munich I suppose)?


----------



## AlexNL

No market?


----------



## da_scotty

bench_mark_2 said:


> I wonder why there is no high speed connection or even plans for such to Western Europe (which is Paris via some German city like Munich I suppose)?


The Westbahn is 250km/h right?
It's the Salzburg-Rosenheim-Munchen link only.


----------



## bench_mark_2

da_scotty said:


> The Westbahn is 250km/h right?
> It's the Salzburg-Rosenheim-Munchen link only.


No, I mean a modern line like the one from Paris to Strasbourg or from Paris to Lyon or the new line from Euston to Birmingham. 

There is no market for the current slow service, but if you could reach Munich in 90 minutes the thing might be quite different. 

Also Vienna is not very popular as a destination in Western Europe due to its bad transport links. If this changes, more people would decide to come and see this lovely town.


----------



## KingNick

bench_mark_2 said:


> No, I mean a modern line like the one from Paris to Strasbourg or from Paris to Lyon or the new line from Euston to Birmingham.
> 
> There is no market for the current slow service, but if you could reach Munich in 90 minutes the thing might be quite different.
> 
> Also Vienna is not very popular as a destination in Western Europe due to its bad transport links. If this changes, more people would decide to come and see this lovely town.


1) Vienna is east of Prague...

2) Vienna is the number 18 worldwide with regards to international overnight visitors. Only Rome, Milan, Barcelona, Paris, Amsterdam and London are ahead of all the European cities: https://newsroom.mastercard.com/wp-...AL-Global-Destination-Cities-Index-Report.pdf

3) On what planet does Vienna have bad transport links? You'll have a very tough time trying to find a city with more direct international train connections.


I agree the link could be better from Salzburg to Munich, but there isn't really a lot Austria can do about this.


----------



## Verso

What about Wien-Nürnberg? What does that line look like?


----------



## Grotlaufen

Verso said:


> What about Wien-Nürnberg? What does that line look like?



On the Austrian side the 80 kms between the German border at Passau and Wels (where it links up with the Westbahn from Salzburg towards Linz/Vienna) is almost completely upgraded to 160 km/h and no level crossings:
https://infrastruktur.oebb.at/de/projekte-fuer-oesterreich/bahnstrecken/weststrecke-wien-salzburg/ausbau-wels-passau/rund-um-den-bau


On the German side of the fence there were serious plans in the 1980's until the German reunification to upgrade the line (Nuremberg-Regensburg-Passau/Austrian border) but alas very little have come out of it apart from some signalling upgrades. 
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausbaustrecke_N%C3%BCrnberg%E2%80%93Passau
https://www.openrailwaymap.org/

It's still 110 km/h for long distances between the cities of Nuremberg and Regensburg for instance.


----------



## da_scotty

bench_mark_2 said:


> No, I mean a modern line like the one from Paris to Strasbourg or from Paris to Lyon or the new line from Euston to Birmingham.
> 
> There is no market for the current slow service, but if you could reach Munich in 90 minutes the thing might be quite different.
> 
> Also Vienna is not very popular as a destination in Western Europe due to its bad transport links. If this changes, more people would decide to come and see this lovely town.


The Westbahn is brand new.. opened in 2012? And really going from 250->300 is really marginal in time gained.


----------



## Coccodrillo

nachalnik said:


> The next PSO-contract for long distance trains in Austria was recently announced by the Austrian ministry of transportation at https://ted.europa.eu/TED/notice/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:524862-2018:TEXT:EN:HTML&src=0
> 
> The notification also contains relatively detailed information about the planned timetable structure after opening of the Koralmbahn and the Semmering tunnel (see https://www.bmvit.gv.at/verkehr/nahverkehr/downloads/vergaben/at0.pdf):


Is this graphic timetable still available in normal quality?


----------



## Negjana

The link to it is even in the post......


----------



## rudiwien

Coccodrillo said:


> Is this graphic timetable still available in normal quality?



You can get the full PDF at https://www.bmvit.gv.at/verkehr/nahverkehr/downloads/vergaben/at0.pdf (there was a slight misformat for the link)

For your convenience, both graphics (after koralm, and after semmering), are also here in full size:


----------



## rheintram

Cabin view Brenner to Kufstein this winter with loads of snow


----------



## rheintram

An another (short) clip about how ÖBB deals with snow:


----------



## Coccodrillo

rheintram said:


> Cabin view Brenner to Kufstein this winter with loads of snow


At around 43:43 you can see the underground junction with the Brenner base tunnel on the right. The chord linking the Inntal tunnel and the BBT is made by two single track tubes that cross each other to change the running side (right in Austria, left in Italy).


----------



## BHT

New design of future Stadler hydrogen units for Zillertalbahn has been revealed:










The first prototype has to be delivered in 2020, full start of hydrogen trains is planned for 2022.
https://www.meinbezirk.at/tirol/c-lokales/infoveranstaltung-bzgl-zillertalbahn_a3182976

I wonder, is already known what will happen with current fleet? Will be Gmeinder locos and Slovak carriages relocated to Pinzgauer railway, while other railcars offered to sale?


----------



## rheintram

I think this hydrogen experiment is a huge mistake. There were plans to electrify the whole railway conventionally and I think that should have been done. I doubt they will just scrap or sell the existing cars and locomotives. I suppose they will use the newer ones (low floor cars) to run along the new hEMUs. Probably they will have to keep the locos as backup and for shunting.

btw. here are some visualizations of the new Mayrhofen train station and the "tram-train" section in Zell:
https://www.tt.com/wirtschaft/unter...-fuer-zukunft-der-zillertalbahn-ist-im-finale


----------



## Coccodrillo

Hi, what are the most recent plans for the lien from Linz Urfahr? Will it ever be reconnected to the European network?


----------



## BHT

*Graz-Köflacher Bahn announces electrification plan*



> A plan for the electrification of the 91 km Graz-Köflacher Bahn network at 15 kV 16·7 Hz by December 2025 was announced by Director-General Franz Weintögl on May 6.
> 
> GKB operates routes from Graz to Köflach and Wies-Eibiswald, diverging at Lieboch. It currently carries around 6 million passengers a year, which it hopes to double once electrification has been completed.
> 
> GKB envisages that electrification of the 133 track-km network would start in 2021, and be finished in time for the full opening of the Koralmbahn which meets the GKB network at Wettmannstätten. The scope would include double tracking a 1·2 km section of the route in Graz to enable services to run at 30 min headways.
> 
> The €120m cost of the project would be funded by the federal government and from GKB’s own funds.


https://www.railwaygazette.com/news...cher-bahn-announces-electrification-plan.html
_____________________


*ÖBB issues double deck EMU tender*


> AUSTRIAN Federal Railways (ÖBB) has published a tender for up to 95 double-deck EMUs, split into three versions – up to 60 at 160m in length, up to 30 at 105m and up to five at 135m.
> 
> The tender also asks for two different speed variants, either 160 km/h or 200 km/h. There are also options for 30 years maintenance and to supply additional coaches to increase the length of the shorter EMUs at a later date.
> The framework contract would be valid for 10 years and the deadline for bids for the tender is May 31 2019.
> 
> The new EMUs will replace the existing fleet of double-deck push-pull sets in service with ÖBB and City Airport Train (CAT), which is an ÖBB subsidiary. The five 135m EMUs will probably be used by CAT, with its sets suffering from corrosion problems.
> The new 160m EMUs will also offer more capacity than the five-car locomotive-hauled push-pull sets in use at present.
> 
> ÖBB Passenger also published a tender for 17 200km/h second-hand double-deck EMUs in March. This was shortly after German Rail (DB) announced a similar tender in light of rumours that Westbahn was set to cascade its fleet of double-deck Kiss EMUs.
> ÖBB has since confirmed that it is no longer pursuing these plans.


https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/obb-double-deck-emu-tender/


----------



## Robi_damian

*Much of the credit for betting on night trains goes to OEBB*



> *Once Threatened, Europe’s Night Trains Rebound*
> With growing concern over the environmental impact of flying, sleeper train service, long considered old-fashioned and nostalgic, is picking up steam



Source


----------



## rheintram

rheintram said:


> 327951876
> 
> A new S-Bahn stop, just outside Vienna.


Better than the usual suburban ÖBB stations.


----------



## Bulevardi

__
http://instagr.am/p/p%2FBz0Ej0VixAV/

The NightJet waiting in Wörgl ^^


----------



## TER200

Westbahn will sell its Kiss EMUS to Deutsche Bahn : 
- next december they reduce their services (back to only 1 train per hour) and send the first nine four-car sets to DB.
- in 2021 they will get 15 new Kiss3 EMUs from Stadler, and transfer the remaining 8 six-car Kiss to DB.
see IRJ : https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/westbahn-sells-stadler-emus-to-db-and-cuts-services/

So finally, no chinese trains in Austria.


----------



## rudiwien

The article mentions that the will stop their "Vienna *Floridsdorf* – Salzburg" service, but the service was to *Praterstern* only, not to Floridsdorf. In any case, that takes around ~16 minutes longer than the service to Westbahnhof, and 11 minutes longer than to Hauptbahnhof, so with selling more than 50% of their fleet, they had to cut that service. I am wondering whether they will return to the Praterstern service, or if they increase frequency again, just go to Hauptbahnhof (which means not using the Schnellbahn line!)

Secondly, some articles in Austrian newspapers claim that the new Stadler trains are also *used* trains, but there are diverging claims, so it's not really clear..


----------



## wbrm

Where in Europe would you get 15 used 6-car Kiss trainsets?


----------



## rudiwien

Really not the point, but half of their fleet is 4-car.

I didn't say that they are buying used, just that there are diverging reports. In their official press release Westbahn claims to order "new" KISS3, so that would indicate indeed "new" (https://westbahn.at/resource/downlo...tbahn-gibt-den-ungleichen-kampf-nicht-auf,pdf).


----------



## wbrm

Remeber Westbahn is a private company. Ordering new stock can be a lot faster without all the procurement procedures state owned operators need to follow.


----------



## TER200

wbrm said:


> Remeber Westbahn is a private company. Ordering new stock can be a lot faster without all the procurement procedures state owned operators need to follow.


Indeed, as they stated when they announced the order for chinese trains (in which case they maybe underestimated the certification procedures).
Of course, now they have chosen an existing type of train that is already certified, it's almost "buy off the shelf, plug, and play".


----------



## Suburbanist

Why is Westbahn selling used trains to DB, from a strategic point of view? Is it more profitable to sell rolling stock than operate passenger services?


----------



## KingNick

Apparently financing for the 15 new trains is cheaper.


----------



## AlexNL

Yes, because of the current low interest rates it's cheaper for them to sell the current fleet and buy new trains. Given that WESTBahn are a small operator (who have been struggling at times), lowering their expenditure has quite a high priority.


----------



## Woonsocket54

On 2019.12.15, a new S-Bahn station opened at Landskron, just northeast of Villach.









https://www.hallo-villach.at/neue-stadtbahnhaltestelle-in-landskron-eroeffnet/









https://presse.oebb.at/de/presseinformationen/20191210-pi-neue-haltestelle-villach-landskron






updated map of regional S-Bahn:









https://www.oebb.at/en/regionale-angebote/kaernten/s-bahn-kaernten.html


----------



## KingNick

Good news. Carinthia really needs to step up its public transport game. They lack far behind the rest of Austria in this regard.


----------



## Sunfuns

This will change significantly only when the tunnels open, isn't that so?


----------



## rudiwien

^^

Are you referring to the Koralmtunnel that will connect to Graz? That will surely help a bit in available routes and capacity, but I think the general issue is rather the local traffic offer.


----------



## Sunfuns

Yes, I meant that. Will establish a railway connection to Graz which currently exists in name only.


----------



## Verso

That's more a problem for Graz rather than Carinthia, since it's Graz that's off the main line.


----------



## rudiwien

Not sure that Graz is that much off the main line, and how much the Koralmtunnel will change that.

- Really *off*, that's only on the routes to Carinthia and further, i.e. Italy. Klagenfurt - Graz will be massively improved, as well as the towns along that route and inside its catchment, e.g. Wolfsberg with a connector train to that line. That's likely more important to Carinthians than for people from Graz, though (more people commute, e.g. for studies, in that direction).

- Timewise, there could be maybe a slight gain of ~10-15 minutes for a Graz - Klagenfurt - Salzburg train, than now via Bruck / Mur (it's currently ~1h difference, Graz-Klagenfurt is projected to be done in 45 Minutes, add a ~5 minute stop inKlagenfurt).
Maybe if that relation is instantiated, the biggest gain is potentially rather in frequency, not in time. Similar observations hold true for further west, e.g. Innsbruck.

- What will be really beneficial to Graz is mostly the Semmering base tunnel, as the connection to Vienna is obviously the most important. With the Semmering tunnel, the travel time will become comparable to the car, but still not as competitive as on the western route, where you can't beat Vienna - Linz by rail, and you are still faster off for most door-to-door connections Vienna - Linz. That won't be the case for Graz - Vienna.


----------



## Verso

^^ You're right that Graz itself – being a city of ~300,000 inhabitants – makes the Bruck an der Mur–Graz railway important, plus it continues to Slovenia. So indeed the new Koralm Railway might be even more important to Carinthians than to Grazers, since Graz is much larger than any Carinthian city.


----------



## Erwindg

I thought the contract Tulfes-Pfons was finished. But it appears that the length of the exploring tunnel has been increased from about 15.000 until 16.627 m. Now I expect a breakthrough with the contract Pfons-Brenner in the spring of 2020.










Source: https://www.bbt-se.com/tunnel/baufortschritt/

Is already something known about tender for the contract the contract Sillschlucht-Pfons? I cann’t find anything about it but it is a large contract that still has to start.


----------



## RyukyuRhymer

Erwindg said:


> Ich dachte Baulos Tulfes-Pfons war bereit Fertig. Es scheint jedoch das die Erkundungsstollen von etwa 15.000 bis 16.627 m verlängert wird. Ich erwarte dann im Frühling die Durchbruch mit dem Baulos Pfons-Brenner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quelle: https://www.bbt-se.com/tunnel/baufortschritt/
> 
> Ist bereits etwas bekannt über die Vergabe von das Baulos Sillschlucht-Pfons? Ich habe darüber noch nichts gefunden aber es ist doch ein großer Baulos die bis jetzt noch fehlt.


A reminder that this is an international section so please provide an English translation, thanks


----------



## Erwindg

^^ I'm sorry. I thought is posted it in a another German thread. But I translated it.


----------



## RyukyuRhymer

Erwindg said:


> ^^ I'm sorry. I thought is posted it in a another German thread. But I translated it.


thanks for the translation :cheers:


----------



## Coccodrillo

ÖBB brings significantly more trucks onto the rails in the new year

https://www.railcargo.com/en/news/o...ly-more-trucks-onto-the-rails-in-the-new-year


----------



## davide84

Page not found, they edited the title:

https://www.railcargo.com/en/news/rcg-brings-significantly-more-trucks-onto-the-rails-in-2020


----------



## Suburbanist

Are there any upcoming plans for some major upgrades to the Arlberg line? With all North-South tunneling in the Alps, East-West connections remain painfully slow, be it between Austria and Switzerland, or between France and Italy for that matter.


----------



## Josp64

There were plans to modernize some parts of the Arlberg line 20-30 years ago, to upgrade the single line for two tracks for higher speeds and some tunnels to make the line more secure in winter, for example between Ötztal and Landeck, they had ready plans to start the construction, but before the ski world championship in 2001 some parts between St. Anton and Landeck were modernized and double tracked for speeds up to 140 and a tunnel at Landeck/Zams was built and also finished, and after that the plans to upgrade further parts of the line were stopped because ÖBB said a new line for more capacity would not be required!
After the station of Langen am Arlberg in direction to Bludenz they also built a double tracked tunnel anyway, after the tunnel the whole line is single tracked till Bludenz.
The modernization of the line between Bludenz and Braz to enable more and better local rail traffic was also quitted, but Vorarlberg has still big interests actually to improve the line to the eastern part of Austria.


----------



## Grotlaufen

Suburbanist said:


> Are there any upcoming plans for some major upgrades to the Arlberg line?



The new transport minister (the new national ÖVP-Green government was formed just a week ago, the same coalitions also rule in both states Vorarlberg and Tyrol so it might be of interest) is interested in looking into it according to an interview with a regional newspaper:

https://www.vn.at/politik/2020/01/10/ministerin-will-zweigleisigen-ausbau-am-arlberg-pruefen


----------



## rheintram

I'm highly sceptical that it's going to happen unfortunately. Yes, some improvements were made some 20 years ago, notably around St. Anton and Langen am Arlberg (plus the tunnel was renovated a couple of years ago). But everything before and after is just the way it used to be in the monarchy.

Speeds are terribly slow but not necessarily the biggest problem. In harsh winters the line is often closed for days or service is impaired. The large single track sections mean that whenever there are delays, these affect other trains too. The other big problem is the lack of regional and local services on the line. There are a couple of stations between Landeck and Bludenz, which haven't seen a train stopping in decades.


----------



## Coccodrillo

Coccodrillo said:


> Hi, what are the most recent plans for the line from Linz Urfahr? Will it ever be reconnected to the European network?


Any news about that? de.wiki says there is a plan to use the new Danube bridge also for trains and to electrify the line until Kleinzell, but the Verbindungsbahn has been completely dismantled.

In addition, the Verbindungsbahn partly ran along city streets, so it was impractical to use it frequently for regular trains (when it was opened it was used only by freight trains and empty passenger stock movements).

For those who don't know, the Mühlkreisbahn is peculiar in that it is now isolated, trains running there are maintained in a temporary workshop in Rottenegg or are moved by road to the main European network and from there to ÖBB's workshops.


----------



## KingNick

To my knowledge the state of Upper Austria is currently in talks with the Ministry of Infrastructure to get financing for a connection to Linz Hauptbahnhof. The Mühlkreisbahn would be incorporated into the S-Bahn Network as the S6.

https://www.tips.at/nachrichten/linz/land-leute/498387-lostag-fuer-die-linzer-stadtbahn


----------



## Coccodrillo

Thank you. It seems a standard gauge tram-train, right? So I suppose that standard rail vehicles will not be allowed to use the Mühlkreisbahn anymore.


----------



## KingNick

Nope, the so-called "Stadtbahn" will be an ordinary railway track. They scrapped plans for a hybrid track for tram trains as well.


----------



## 1772

*Straight (high speed?) line under Vaduz, Liechtenstein to connect Zürich & Innsbruck*

I recently travelled through Liechtenstein when going skiing in Austria and when I looked at a map it struck me that the principality is located right between the cities of Zürich and Innsbruck. But the railroad between the two cities goes through Liechtenstein but it takes a northern turn and looks very bendy and slow. 

This is to avoid the mountains of eastern Liechtenstein; but it struck me that if a straight line was to be built, not only would it go straight through the capital of Vaduz, it would also make it easier to have high-speed trains go there. 

Is there any plans to build a tunnel/high speed tunnel through Vaduz and Liechtenstein to make the journey between Zürich and Innsbruck faster? 
It would benefit all three parties; for Switzerland and Austria to have a faster connection and for Liechteinstein to have a station along a high speed railway.

I did a line on a map to make it easier to get what I'm talking about (my proposal is the blue line).


----------



## KingNick

How much time would that gain?


----------



## rheintram

This will never happen. Feldkirch is one of the most important stops on this line. In fact more people travel between Innsbruck and Feldkirch than between Innsbruck and Zurich. In Feldkirch passengers switch to trains towards Bregenz and Liechtenstein. Second Buchs is an important stop on the other side of the Rhine and cannot be omitted. Third the line Feldkirch - Buchs will be upgraded in the near future.

One problem remains and that's Buchs, where trains have to switch direction.


----------



## Sunfuns

The proposal above is an unnecessary upgrade. All these are small towns and it's more important to connect them with each other than the distant and still rather small Innsbruck with Zurich.


----------



## Negjana

A new line for a two-hourly service?

Stupidity is an understatement here.


----------



## KingNick

rheintram said:


> This will never happen. Feldkirch is one of the most important stops on this line. In fact more people travel between Innsbruck and Feldkirch than between Innsbruck and Zurich. In Feldkirch passengers switch to trains towards Bregenz and Liechtenstein. Second Buchs is an important stop on the other side of the Rhine and cannot be omitted. Third the line Feldkirch - Buchs will be upgraded in the near future.
> 
> One problem remains and that's Buchs, where trains have to switch direction.


Also there is no way Austria will invest a huge amount of money to basically bypass one of its federal states.


----------



## Coccodrillo

There are still no plans to fully double the Arlberg line, anyway.

Nor the Tauernbahn.


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## rheintram

Coccodrillo, just a minor correction: There were plans to double the majority of the Arlberg line. It was called "selective upgrading". For example in 2003 they were still talking about upgrading Bludenz - Braz in the next step. If that would have been done, half of the Arlberg line between Bludenz and Landeck would have been doubled already. In the end after ~2003 no further upgrades were conducted, except for the modernisation of the Arlberg tunnel. A couple of years ago, some regional politicians from Vorarlberg demanded a further upgrade, but nothing concrete came


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## Josp64

And the Tauernbahn IS doubled long ago, I don´t know exactly, but I think the biggest part of the line, if you don´t know that fact….


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## Negjana

You apparently don't know that it isn't doubled along the full length. :bash:


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## KingNick

Josp64 said:


> And the Tauernbahn IS doubled long ago, I don´t know exactly, but I think the biggest part of the line, if you don´t know that fact….


Large parts are not double track. Just watch the video below from 1:43:15 onward...


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## Josp64

From 79 km length about nearly 70 km a doubled!! 

Look online, then you`ll be more trained!

And anyway, experts always said and say actually, that these investments wouldn´t be really necessary, because most of traffic from north to south in Austria don´t take place on the Tauernbahn....so the double tracked Tauern-Line is rather luxury, not needed!

Negjana, don´t know where are you from, but austrian railways and their investments and modernisation should be, and are actually, a good example how a state has to interact today with its rail system!

ÖBB ist in Europe one of the best, when not THE best rail system, and you find Austria in Europe on number one of the countries (excluded Switzerland) where the people are using the railways most!


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## KingNick

67.5 km are double track. So your comment is just factually wrong.


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## Ghostpoet

rheintram said:


> One problem remains and that's Buchs, where trains have to switch direction.


Any proposals to built the direct line avoiding Buchs?

Ghostpoet


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## rheintram

Not really. It would be relatively simple though: Just after the Rhine bridge a short loop of about 500 meters would need to be built. Currently there is only one building in the way - it could even be avoided with a slightly longer loop. If you still want to connect Buchs - which would make sense - a Buchs south station could easily be built, there is plently of space along the existing tracks.


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## davide84

1.16 km, according to my calculations with GMaps. The project paperwork is probably more expensive  but the new loop would be completely in CH, making things simpler.

To better understand the context, is there any train today which would benefit from it? Excluding night trains, of course. The RailJet from Zurich to Vienna is surely one...


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## Slartibartfas

^^ Yes, I think this is a cool feature of a lot of rooms in several hotels there, at least for the at least remotely railway inclined people.


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## kokomo

At least I woke up at 6 in the morning and services were already there


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## Poorna90

Hi all, I hope you are having a good day.

Can I kindly know how many trains run daily (departures and arrivals) from the Klagenfurt railway station (Klagenfurt Hauptbahnhof)? This means basically every train not only passenger trains.

Thank you very much.


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## simon andrew

Thats really cool


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## rheintram

13 nightjet trains ordered from Siemens Transportation two years ago are currently in production. According to media reports ÖBB now orders another 20 Nightjet trains, allegedly including new locomotives (most likely Vectron), which will be delivered from 2024. Altogether the 13+20 trains consist of 231 coaches (sleeping cars, couchettes and seating cars). According to Handelsblatt nightjet services covered their operational costs in 2019.

Here are a couple of articles:








Schienenverkehr: Österreich startet Nachtzug-Offensive in Europa


Die österreichische Staatsbahn will 750 Millionen Euro in die Nightjet-Züge investieren. Aktuell fehlt es europaweit vor allem an modernen Schlaf- und Liegewagen.




www.handelsblatt.com












ÖBB stocken Nachtzug-Flotte auf


Die ÖBB stocken ihre Nachtzug-Flotte auf und investieren dafür kräftig. 13 neue Züge, die vor zwei Jahren bei Siemens zur Auslieferung 2022 bestellt worden, sind laut ÖBB in Produktion. Denn auf dem Nachtzug-Segment ruht die Hoffnung der Bundesbahnen.




wien.orf.at












ÖBB stockt Nachtzugflotte auf


Das Nachtzugsegment entwickelt sich gut. Daher will die ÖBB um 500 Millionen Euro 20 zusätzliche Züge anschaffen




www.derstandard.at


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## wbrm

ÖBB also has a big framework order for Vectrons so the locomotives might not come from a new separate order.


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## rheintram

Meanwhile Bombardier's Talent 3 trains, which were ordered for S-Bahn and regional services in Western Austria, are still causing problems. For some reason Bombardier is not able to attain all the required permits. They should have been operational for over a year already, instead they are still in the certification process. Meanwhile ÖBB upgraded a number of Talent 1 (4024) and sent them to Vorarlberg and Tirol.


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## Ghostpoet

Nightjet depot investment to support sleeper train network expansion


AUSTRIA: Austrian Federal Railways held a groundbreaking ceremony on August 21 to launch the construction of a €40m facility at its Wien Simmering depot for the maintenance of its Nightjet overnight train fleet. The project includes construction of a 235 m x 24 m building with two ...




www.railwaygazette.com


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## rheintram

The morons in Liechtenstein said no to the FLACH or Liechtenstein S-Bahn project - even though the majority of the project would have been paid by Austria. While I find it somewhat obscene that Austria should pay most of a project that primarily benefits one of the richest (per-capita) nations in the world, I still supported it for the greater good and I amconvinced this was a terrible decision on part of the Liechtenstein people. Mind you, they would have gotten a direct railjet train to Zurich and Vienna, a modern suburban railway and many up to date stations. And it would have benefited the entire region. None of this will happen now.

ÖBB will probably only invest the bare minimum from now on - perhaps we will even see a reduction in train services between Feldkirch (Austria) and Buchs (Switzerland) in the near future.

PS: the best option would be the build a new railway around Liechtenstein, which enters Buchs (SG) from the north and thus abolishes the requirement to change directions.


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## MarcVD

rheintram said:


> PS: the best option would be the build a new railway around Liechtenstein, which enters Buchs (SG) from the north and thus abolishes the requirement to change directions.


Certainly not impossible, but would require either a change of directions in Feldkirch instead of Buchs, or a relocation of the Feldkirch station quite more to the north than it is now, or keep Feldkirch as a terminus for local trains only, but have the international trains bypass it completely.


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## rheintram

I'm only half-serious but it would certainly possible to build a loop north of Meiningen. You wouldn't need to change anything about the Feldkirch station at all.


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## rheintram

ÖBB rented two (?) Alstom Coradia iLint trains and is testing them until the end of November on services out of Wiener Neustadt (timetable here: https://www.oebb.at/dam/jcr:5517129c-8c0b-4a5b-b4eb-09aaab0d6d07/fahrplan-wasserstoffzug-deutsch.pdf)


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## zsbuum

Hi!
I would like to ask if anyone knows, will these sections of the Südbahn and Koralmbahn be upgraded for at least to 200 km/h? Otherwise IMO most of these lines would be inefficient (for example that small 200 km/h section on the Pottendorfer linie or the 250 km/h Semmering Base Tunnel).

































I mean of course these are not huge time savers compared to cost but still, if there is already a 200/250 km/h section next to them plus good alignment with radiuses then why not?

Another question: How much time would be saved with fully functional infrastructure (that are already U/C) between Vienna-Klagenfurt (therefore Venice)? Is it true that the route via the Koralmbahn and Graz would save only 20 minutes compared to the today's bypass route? Does that worth the cost then even considering that the Railjets will be able to go via Graz only therefore more efficiently?

Thanks


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## Negjana

The upper section on your first picture will be partially upgraded to 200 km/h, the lower section fully to 160 km/h. The section on your second picture will be upgraded to 160 km/h, the one on your third picture to 250 km/h and on your last picture to 200 km/h.

Koralmbahn will save 38 minutes compared to today.


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## davide84

€17.5bn investment plan for Austrian network accepted


Austria's Council of Ministers has accepted the master plan for ÖBB, which will see €17.5bn invested in the country’s rail infrastructure by 2026.




www.railjournal.com


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## rheintram

zsbuum, i can't answer your questions, but it wouldn't be the first time that Austria builds new high speed or high capacity railway lines and leaves major bottlenecks in the middle. A good example is the Western Railway with the St. Pölten bottle neck. Even though a modern bypass was built, this bypass is only used for cargo trains and allows for speeds up to 120 kph. As all long distance trains now stop again in St. Pölten (for political reasons) it doesn't change much, but it is still stupid. Another bottleneck on the Western Railway is Linz, but admittedly there is nothing you can really do about that one.


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## Negjana

Why is St. Pölten a bottleneck?

Since Austria is adapting a integrated timetable more and more, it is vital for the St. Pölten hub to have fast trains to east and west stop every half hour.

Linz may be a bottleneck now, but as soon as the four-tracking Linz Kleinmünchen - Wels is complete, capacity shouldn't be an issue in the Linz area, or only on the Summerauer Bahn.


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## EMArg

*Wien Westbahnhof*




Wien Westbahnhof (Vienna West station) is a major Austrian railway station, the original starting point of the West railway (Westbahn) and a former terminus of international rail services. In 2015, its role changed with the opening of Vienna's new main station and Westbahnhof now is mainly a commuter station and the terminus of private rail operator WESTbahn's intercity service from Salzburg. Locally, Wien Westbahnhof is served by S-Bahn line S50 and U-Bahn lines U3 and U6. Six tram lines converge on Europaplatz in front of the station, although none go into the city centre. There are also buses to the airport.


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## EMArg

^^



Video:


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## rheintram

ÖBB recently started to post a number of videos about their cargo terminals. They are quite short but give a good impression of the scale and operations there:

*TSA Terminal Wolfurt*





*TSA Terminal Wels*


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## wbrm

M-NL said:


> ... I actually think updating the Taurus front end for the new norms would take about the same time as putting a Vectron inspired front on. But I think ÖBB just want to create a visual difference and just wants to reserve the Taurus style head for their premium RailJet trains.


That doesn’t make sense as the new Railjet 2 will almost certainly have exactly the same Vectron front. It is probably for easier/cheaper maintenance purposes and staff training.



M-NL said:


> As for my earlier statement regarding 1500 VDC for the Taurus: It turns out they intend to split the Nightjet somewhere in Germany where the Taurus could haul the part continuing to Belgium, while the remaining part will be hauled by a NS Vectron.


You are probably right about NS using their Vectrons but no ÖBB Taurus is certified for operation in Belgium so that seems highly unlikely for me.


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## AlbertJP

The Nightjet will be split in Cologne, where the part to Belgium continues in westward direction but the part to the Netherlands has to reverse. It is easier to keep the ÖBB loco attached to the Belgian part and attach the NS one at the back than to do a loco run-round in Cologne.

Edit: the ÖBB loco will be replaced by a Belgian one in Aachen according to Vagonweb: vagonWEB » Řazení vlaků » 2021 » ÖBB NJ » NJ 50490
And apparently it uses the left bank of the Rhine and splits at Cologne West, with only the Dutch part going through Cologne Hbf (so no reversal needed.)


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## rheintram

Of course it's not just the looks, I never claimed that. But obviously it is easier to adapt an existing cab (Vectron) which is compliant rather than retrofit an obsolete design (Taurus) to fit the new crash norms. I doubt that ÖBB hat much say in this, and in fact existing renderings of RJ 2 trains also show it with a Vectron cab.


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## M-NL

rheintram said:


> Of course it's not just the looks, I never claimed that.
> I doubt that ÖBB hat much say in this


No, I did. And who knows, intended or not, maybe they will start using the Vectron MS, which can be certified for Belgium and the Netherlands, in the future. The problem is just that you only have 2 DC pantographs, in some countries you need both at the same time and most DC countries use slightly different DC pantographs. That makes it difficult or impossible to combine some country packages (AFAIK Czechia, Italy and the Netherlands can't be combined on the same loco for instance)

It's just that I like the looks of the Taurus more and you can always dream, can't you. If ÖBB hadn't asked for a different style of cab the Taurus could very well just have been a high speed class 185/189. As long as you order enough of them Siemens will built you anything. A custom look will cost a bit more though and may take longer to deliver.

BTW: The German wikipedia article actually states they were testing a 230 km/h Vectron in Austria. Then at least you can run RailJet2 at the full 230 km/h with the same look locomotive and cab coach.


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## MarcVD

M-NL said:


> No, I did. And who knows, intended or not, maybe they will start using the Vectron MS, which can be certified for Belgium and the Netherlands, in the future.


Vectron MS is already certified in Belgium (may be just not for passenger trains). DB Cargo and BLS haul trains with Vectrons every day.


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## KingNick

According to ÖBB the new NJ will be powered by Vectrons:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1364186184793128966


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## M-NL

Which also explains the new look cab coaches and the 230 km/h testing with the Vectrons. However a 230 km/h Vectron will, just like the coaches, need at least partial new certification for every country it is intended to run in, because it is different from the existing models after all.


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## Volk85

Today it is exactly one year since the last time the Russian train Moscow-Nice set off. I bring to your attention a video of his penultimate trip, filmed at the Vienna train station. The cancellation of this train became a harbinger of the complete cessation of passenger railway communication between Europe and the countries of the former USSR, which has not yet been restored even in the smallest volume. While filming then our train in Austria, I could not have imagined that it would be canceled so soon, and even so for a long time. Also in the video you can see the arrival of a train from Záhony with Ukrainian carriage Kiev - Vienna. At that time, Vienna was one of the few capitals of the European Union, which had a direct railway connection both with Russia and with Ukraine. Other such capitals are Warsaw, Riga and Vilnius.


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## AndreiB

M-NL said:


> Which also explains the new look cab coaches and the 230 km/h testing with the Vectrons. However a 230 km/h Vectron will, just like the coaches, need at least partial new certification for every country it is intended to run in, because it is different from the existing models after all.


Is that not what the 4th EU Railway Package was meant to eliminate (needing to certify rolling stock in each individual country)?


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## davide84

The biggest part of the process has indeed been centralized and it works but some country-specific certifications still have to be performed locally - M-NL correctly wrote "partially".


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## rheintram

Even if you have a centralized certification process there is still the problem that basically each country has a unique railway infrastructure. That's the real mess that won't be fixed anytime soon.


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## M-NL

Honestly, I think that is exactly where the EU went wrong. They should have focused more on harmonising infrastructure, procedures and hardware, instead of creating yet another extra system (ERTMS). Now every country has more or less difference in track gauge, loading gauge, overhead line voltage and system, train control systems, pantograph height and width, signalling, train detection and procedures. All the contradictory rules make it nearly impossible to build a single electric train that could run in every country of the EU and I'm not sure about a diesel train either. Imagine if road haulage would work the same.


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## dyonisien

Strange discussion in 2021.
From the beginning of the 20th century until the early 1980 it was quite straightforward to run international trains to a lot of counties with cars of a lot of countries. RIC (Regolamento Internazionale delle Carrozze) was agreed back in 1922. Locomotives were often exchanged at the border, but not always (Paris-Brussels(-Amsterdam) or Frankfurt-Vienna or even Paris-Milano could be run with the same traction engine). In those times we were still able to exchange locomotives in 7 minutes, or revert a train (with locomotives exchange) in 6 minutes (Stuttgart Hbf). Anyway you hopefully do not expect drivers to drive for 10 h. The few minutes "lost" in thoses exchanges seem ridiculous in regard of the slowness of most proposed "new" night trains. But there is well a difference : in those former times the exchanged locomotives could be reused in other services as soon as needed by every railway. Now the rule is for every 'company' to run its trains as "self contained", so you can see the Thello locomotives (Paris-Vallorbe part of Paris-Venice) stay idle all day near Paris with their large useless Thello logo). Without cooperation there is little room for productivity miracles.


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## M-NL

dyonisien said:


> From the beginning of the 20th century until the early 1980 it was quite straightforward to run international trains to a lot of counties with cars of a lot of countries. RIC (Regolamento Internazionale delle Carrozze) was agreed back in 1922. Locomotives were often exchanged at the border,


They still do that. Every two hours a locomotive of the Amsterdam to/from Berlin IC is exchanged at Bad Bentheim. Until the Talgo ECx goes into service in a few years at least.

Train service can be more efficient with a bigger company. In the past each depot would have a spare locomotive and a few drivers on standby. Now every train company would need its own spares and substitute drivers, but usually just cancels a train when no equipment or driver is available. Very efficient indeed.


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## davide84

M-NL said:


> Honestly, I think that is exactly where the EU went wrong. They should have focused more on harmonising infrastructure


They've done it, it's called TSI - Technical Specifications for Interoperability. It mandates, among other things, standardized platform height (550 or 760 mm) and maximum train length (400m for passengers). And if I remember correctly the loading gauge is also part of the list.



> instead of creating yet another extra system (ERTMS).


This is exactly the way you harmonize signalling systems. Since every national system had more or less reached its limits, a new one was jointly developed.



> Now every country has more or less difference in track gauge, loading gauge, overhead line voltage and system, train control systems, pantograph height and width, signalling, train detection and procedures.


The only real problem of your list is the pantograph width, and it's a big problem. I hope they work on it soon... all the others have been solved on paper and mostly in practice as well.



> All the contradictory rules make it nearly impossible to build a single electric train that could run in every country of the EU and I'm not sure about a diesel train either.


The differences in the rules come from decades of independent developments, they won't be ironed out before a few more decades. But today interoperability is a reality, a single engine can go from Italy to Switzerland and Germany (e.g. ETR 610 Milano - Frankfurt). 30 years ago you would have had to change engine twice, and make sure you had the right connections on the coaches... today this is just the new standard.


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## rheintram

The new nightjets will be technically identical with the railjet 2 trains. The only real difference is the interior. Hence the the 230 km/h top speed, which is incredibly fast for a nighttrain. railjet and nightjet trainsets can be coupled and run together.


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## M-NL

davide84 said:


> They've done it, it's called TSI - Technical Specifications for Interoperability.


The name already says it. They are harmonising technical specifications, not procedures, which has always been the biggest difference.


davide84 said:


> This is exactly the way you harmonize signalling systems. Since every national system had more or less reached its limits, a new one was jointly developed.


There are multiple approaches to harmonising. Because there are several systems in use I would have proposed to start of by demanding every country to migrate their national systems to ERTMS hardware first (basically what Switserland and Belgium did). That way all trains would probably have been fitted with ERTMS hardware by now and more countries would have already phased out their old system hardware. Only once the hardware is rolled out, you can then start implementing ETCS. They have tried to do both at the same time, which I think has hampered its introduction.


davide84 said:


> The differences in the rules come from decades of independent developments, they won't be ironed out before a few more decades.


Not only that, every country will, of course, insist their rules are the best and should be adopted. We will probably end up with a hodgepodge of several countries' rules.


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## rheintram

Switzerland switched to ERTMS - but then they have a unique catenary system, which always requires special pantographs. And there is only so many pantographs you can fit on a locomotive....


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## TM_Germany

I never underdtoof why Switzerland has a different pantograph while having the same elictrification as Germany and Austria. Is it a loading gauge issue?


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## davide84

Could very well be the case... Just as reference, CH is 1450mm and DE/AT is 1950mm:






border stations - Basel region


border stations - Basel region



www.bueker.net





The only way this could be harmonized, I guess, would be to re-wire all the German and Austrian network to a smaller wire geometry, hoping that the large pantographs would still work well under the new wire. But those two networks would see a big investment with no return... it's simpler to add a pantograph on the few cross-border trains.


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## M-NL

TM_Germany said:


> I never underdtoof why Switzerland has a different pantograph while having the same elictrification as Germany and Austria. Is it a loading gauge issue?


I think so. It's probably the shape of the tunnels, which may not have enough clearance at the top, otherwise there is no reason why a wider pantograph couldn't be used.
If I remember correctly the ICE1/2 has (had?) a special exemption to use the German 1950mm pantograph in Switzerland, but only on the Freiburg to Basel route (probably because there are no tunnels on that route). If I remember correct the ICE3 with Swiss approval actually does have 4 pantographs (and the ICE3M/MF/MS may even have 6 or 8, I'm not sure)

But yes, it's a real mess, when it comes to pantographs (and this site doesn't even mention the contact pressure and overhead wire height which can also differ):








Screenshot taken from site interoperability - maps and facts on European interoperability issues

And to make matters even worse: ERA has come up with a 1600mm wide pantograph 'as a compromise'.


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## AlbertJP

The ICE3M(F) has 3 types of pantographs (DC, AC wide, AC narrow), but every one is duplicated for a total of 6. To get to Paris, only French AC catenary (narrow like the Swiss one) is used; they don't need to support the French DC network (although I think you can use Netherlands/Belgium pantographs there as well.)

Locos typically have duplicated pantographs as well, unless they have more than 2 types. I believe the class 186 and 189 used for Netherlands-Italy transport have 2 different AC pantographs and 2 different DC pantographs.

To make matters even more complicated, in the Netherlands there are bridges without catenary where Belgium-compatible pantographs need to be lowered because they extend to a slightly larger height and would get tangled in the wires at the other end of the bridge.


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## davide84

Correction to the map above: in the 2000s Italy has completely transitioned to carbon contact strips on the entire network, and I suspect other countries have done it.

In addition, on AV/AC (= HS + EU corridors) the pantograph width must be "between 1450 and 1600 mm", therefore aligning to the "ERA compromise" mentioned above.

Source: https://www.ansf.gov.it/documents/2...ento.pdf/88ab43d2-b84d-0617-5d83-ce9187744eef pages 25 and 26
(ANSF = national agency for railway safety; search for "striscianti in carbone" and "larghezza compresa tra").

Considering that DC lines in France are almost not contributing to long haul network, France Switzerland and Italy constitute a failry homogeneous block.

It will take decades, but there is a simplification process ongoing...


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## AlbertJP

davide84 said:


> Considering that DC lines in France are almost not contributing to long haul network, France Switzerland and Italy constitute a failry homogeneous block.


As far as AC goes, yes. There are basically only two AC standards remaining, wide and narrow, and you can use all AC lines in Europe if you have both of them.

DC in Italy&Slovenia is still the exception to the rule, it is the only DC system with narrow pantographs.


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## davide84

I wonder if in the future there could be only two types of pantograph, narrow and wide, with automatic detection of voltage... this would reduce the number of configurations needed.


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## AlbertJP

Voltage detection already exists, in the sense that multisystem locos lower the pantograph automatically if you accidentally raise the wrong one.

I'm not sure combined DC and AC pantographs are feasible as I believe DC requires a larger contact area.


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## M-NL

AlbertJP said:


> I'm not sure combined DC and AC pantographs are feasible as I believe DC requires a larger contact area.


A larger contact area should not be a problem, it only causes unnecesary extra wear when not required.
The quite large difference in contact pressure (much higher with DC) can be solved using (electronic) control systems. In fact TGVs already have a similar system on their AC pantographs.
The difference in contact strip materials is the biggest problem. The wrong material will cause exessive wear on the overhead wire.
If building a pantograph with two different contact strip materials were possible, that deploy depending on the selected system, it probably would have been done already. The main reason it doesn't exist yet is possibly that its weight impedes its ability to accurately follow the overhead wire, which again causes extra wear both to the contact strip and the wire.


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## M-NL

It's in German, but it also contain impressions of the interior.
At 2m50s he mentions that the NightJet trains will be 7 cars long and are 'flexibly couplable', whatever that is supposed to mean.
For the envisaged Belgium and Netherlands service that could mean two coupled sets and, if you want to prevent a locomotive swap, country approved Vectrons. That can be the new 230 km/h models, but also already present 160 km/h (of which ÖBB has 28 that are approved for B/NL) or 200 km/h Vectron MS models.


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## nsnikolov

M-NL said:


> It's in German, but it also contain impressions of the interior.
> At 2m50s he mentions that the NightJet trains will be 7 cars long and are 'flexibly couplable', whatever that is supposed to mean.
> For the envisaged Belgium and Netherlands service that could mean two coupled sets and, if you want to prevent a locomotive swap, country approved Vectrons. That can be the new 230 km/h models, but also already present 160 km/h (of which ÖBB has 28 that are approved for B/NL) or 200 km/h Vectron MS models.


Actually the 13 new Nightjets are going to travel only to Italy. Flexibly couplable means that each carrage is seperated like the current Nightjet trains. This gives the company the opportunity to add extra cars or replace a defect one quite fast when needed. Railjets for example are not flexible...


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## Slartibartfas

nsnikolov said:


> Actually the 13 new Nightjets are going to travel only to Italy. Flexibly couplable means that each carrage is seperated like the current Nightjet trains. This gives the company the opportunity to add extra cars or replace a defect one quite fast when needed. Railjets for example are not flexible...


Does the 230 km/h max speed open up new route opportunities, due to longer possible range (times savings really isn't a thing in night trains, is it?)


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## dyonisien

Hopefully faster trains could travel longer distances in _just_ one night. 
There are still diverging views on coverable distances, as there are diverging views on acceptability _now_ of travel times cutting too much into the adjoining daytimes*. 
Ideally a night train should allow for a full working/leisure day before _and/or_ after the journey. Can we really expect the Swedish _flygskam_ to becomme so strong that it makes any night train viable, whatever the distance, the speed or the joined populations ? Certainly not. Many parameters are still unknown. The probability of taxes on kerosene at the same level as for ground vehicles is still very low, as are many aids or externalities.
230 km/h is to slow to be mixed with 300/320km/h HST and some HSL are either too steep or closed for maintenance during the night or reserved(?) to much slower freight traffic. But running as fast as conventional lines allow would still be interesting.
If night trains are allowed to travel as fast as day trains from (20h/)21h to 24h and from 6h to 9h/(10h) and if they are only lightly slower than day trains between 0h and 6h (having less stops than day trains, and NOT being exagerately detained in favour of freight trains), they can indeed cover quite long distances and join very populous areas. The productivity of the rolling stock (in passenger·km) is not the same if a night trains covers 1400 km or 600 km. In that respect having two locomotives for a conventional train is a productivity burden (it is the price of the self-contained model in an alas non-cooperating European system).
For those reasons and other ones speed is not that secondary. 600 km is still driveable (two drivers) or doable in a cheap slow bus or, if there are HSL, doable in 3h by a day HST, strongly limiting the demand.
But the main problem remains the disappearance of night trains since the times when you could count on a night train in Europe almost everywhere. Nowadays many people have just lost the habit. 
If you are lucky enough to be a Viennese the learning curve will be easy as you will be rapidly able to enjoy night trains in all directions. But think of all non-Vienneses who in most cases will be offered an odd night train... in the unwanted direction. 
The challenge remains very high.

*as there also are diverging views on the driving forces behind the idea of a rebirth of night trains : for the sake of some market opportunities (although the much praised undistorted competition just does not exist in transport) or for the sake of the environment. Is this rebirth a necessity which deserves to be supported or is just a contingent phenomena we are gazing at as cows gazing at trains ?


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## mh7

nsnikolov said:


> Actually the 13 new Nightjets are going to travel only to Italy. Flexibly couplable means that each carrage is seperated like the current Nightjet trains. This gives the company the opportunity to add extra cars or replace a defect one quite fast when needed. Railjets for example are not flexible...


First delivered new Nightjets will travel between Munich and Italy, not all 13. They will be delivered step by step.


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## Slartibartfas

dyonisien said:


> Hopefully faster trains could travel longer distances in _just_ one night.
> There are still diverging views on coverable distances, as there are diverging views on acceptability _now_ of travel times cutting too much into the adjoining daytimes*.
> Ideally a night train should allow for a full working/leisure day before _and/or_ after the journey. Can we really expect the Swedish _flygskam_ to becomme so strong that it makes any night train viable, whatever the distance, the speed or the joined populations ? Certainly not. Many parameters are still unknown. The probability of taxes on kerosene at the same level as for ground vehicles is still very low, as are many aids or externalities.
> 230 km/h is to slow to be mixed with 300/320km/h HST and some HSL are either too steep or closed for maintenance during the night or reserved(?) to much slower freight traffic. But running as fast as conventional lines allow would still be interesting.


I think the 230 km/h are more directed towards those upgraded routes and segments one can find in Austria but also outside along many potential or actual corridors. It makes sense if Nightjets could make use of the same speeds as the Railjets. Those upgraded tracks also do not need to be shut down (every) night so the speeds could be useful also for night trains. If 1 hour can be saved at those parts, those nightjets might be able to get 1 h further to arrive at a more distant location at the right time in the morning.




> *as there also are diverging views on the driving forces behind the idea of a rebirth of night trains : for the sake of some market opportunities (although the much praised undistorted competition just does not exist in transport) or for the sake of the environment. Is this rebirth a necessity which deserves to be supported or is just a contingent phenomena we are gazing at as cows gazing at trains ?


From an Austrian perspective this isn't a rebirth, simply a continuation, with already urgently needed investments finally being made, outdated and often worn out material being replaced and brought up to pace with what customers nowadays expect (power, wifi, more options and privacy for single riders ...). That is the basis. On top of that you have the reestablishment of certain corridors that always made sense but had been cut down in the meanwhile. Some, like Vienna-Brussels simply did not have the same importance a few decades ago than they have nowadays as well.

Night trains are a niche market and that won't change anytime soon. But even the DB, which tried very hard to destroy their night trains failed to keep the customers away from their night trains, until they finally discontinued them anyway (and sold the rest to the ÖBB). Night trains, might not be a gold mine but customers want it. I think it is the sort of basic infrastructure we should have on offer as they are offering something that other modes can't, in this way.


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## TER200

M-NL said:


> A larger contact area should not be a problem, it only causes unnecesary extra wear when not required.
> The quite large difference in contact pressure (much higher with DC) can be solved using (electronic) control systems. In fact TGVs already have a similar system on their AC pantographs.
> The difference in contact strip materials is the biggest problem. The wrong material will cause exessive wear on the overhead wire.
> If building a pantograph with two different contact strip materials were possible, that deploy depending on the selected system, it probably would have been done already. The main reason it doesn't exist yet is possibly that its weight impedes its ability to accurately follow the overhead wire, which again causes extra wear both to the contact strip and the wire.


In France, trainsets limited to 140km/h or lower usually have only one panto (or 2 identical one, used indifferently), as a contact pressure compatible with both systems works (however all DC and MS locos have 2 pantos, probably beacause of the high current under 1500V which requires to use both in parallel in some situations).
Faster trains have different pantos, generally with the possibility to use the "wrong" one as backup with restricted speed. Actualy only some lines have the "Midi" catenary which requires a 1950 mm wide panto, found on al DC only engines and some MS ones (in which case it can not be used uneder 25 kV wire).

[sorry for off-topic]



mh7 said:


> First delivered new Nightjets will travel between Munich and Italy, not all 13. They will be delivered step by step.


And an order for 20 more is already approved.


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## petrospa

Does anybody know why this nightjet does not offer couchette / sleeping car options? It only lets me pick 2n class seated car. Do some nightjets only have seated cars? 
Thank you


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## AlbertJP

Should not be the case according to vagonWEB » Řazení vlaků » 2021 » ÖBB NJ » NJ 464.


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## petrospa

AlbertJP said:


> Should not be the case according to vagonWEB » Řazení vlaků » 2021 » ÖBB NJ » NJ 464.


If you start the trip in Graz it lets you select it, but not from Bruck an der Mur or from Kapfenberg. Maybe if the trip is under certain hours it does not give the option to book a bed.


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## rheintram

The sad Talent 3 saga seems to be over: Today ÖBB and the states of Vorarlberg and Tyrol announced that they will terminate the contract and order Siemens Desiro ML trains instead...


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## KingNick

rheintram said:


> The sad Talent 3 saga seems to be over: Today ÖBB and the states of Vorarlberg and Tyrol announced that they will terminate the contract and order Siemens Desiro ML trains instead...


Took them long enough. ÖBB will probably exercise an option in the Desiro ML framework agreement.


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## rheintram

The framework agreement is already fulfilled. My statement was actually a bit premature: I doubt Vorarlberg wants the Desiro ML - anyhow the existing 3-part trainsets do not fulfill the requirements.


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## kokomo

I agree. The design of the cab does not seem to fit the rest of the coach


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## fajfer2003

Maybe you are just not used to the look? For 90% it will be Vectron pulling the entire thing so both ends will look the same.


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## Negjana

Well since they will mainly run during the night it doesn't matter, does it?


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## wbrm

I expect that the second generation Railjet cab will look exactly the same except the paintjob


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## rheintram

Which is really a pity. The main argument you always read is that it already fulfills the new crash norms and hence they opted for the Vectron cab. But this argument sounds only half valid to me. Yes the individual components already underwent testing and certification, but then the crash behavior of a cab coach is quite certainly very different from that of a Vectron loco and certainly needed its own individual approval. I doubt it would have been so much more work and effort to get approvals for a new and decent design. I really think it's a cost cutting measure and nothing else...


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## wbrm

Of course it’s for cutting costs. The economics of providing a nighttrain service is hard enough as it is. Using an existing cab design cuts costs for both the designing itself and maintenance so it absolutely makes sense. The other end of the train will be a locomotive anyway so don’t overdo it. I would be very surprised if ÖBB would order a fitting locomotive design other than a standard one.


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## wbrm

Considering this is a passenger train they could have added the destination displays to the cab like an early batch Vectrons have.


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## M-NL

wbrm said:


> Of course it’s for cutting costs.


Now consider this: The outside you see is just a glasfiber reinforced plastic cover over the actual crash structure (you can see the seams on the pictures). They could have put the cab back by 10 cm or so and made the bottom section come out further below the front windows, instead of receding like the Vectron. That would have made no difference to the crash structure, but would have looked unique and more like the Taurus, instead of generic, like the Vectron. For the NightJet and future RailJet Vectrons they could have done something identical.


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## rheintram

It's not even sure that Vectrons will haul nightjets. They were never built for that in the first place and ÖBB currently only uses them for cargo trains. Afaik none of the Vectrons is currently able to operate above 160 km/h - even though that appears to be mostly a question of certification. The new nightjet trains are built for speeds up to 230 km/h. Granted, this is mostly not needed for the current services. So my guess is that we will see mostly Taurus locomotives (1116 and 1216) haul these trains.


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## M-NL

There have already been tests with 230 km/h Vectrons. In essence, they're testing a Vectron with Taurus bogies and some additional alterations to meet the current standards.
Vectron (Again) On Test In Austria
Vectron-Versuche mit 230 km/h

But yes, I just wondered, why they didn't just use existing Tauruses for these trains. ÖBB has 50 1016's, 282 1116's and 50 1216's. The only problem is that additional country certifications will not be possible, because they do not meet current standards. So despite, for instance a 1216 being able to run on 1,5 kV and able to be fitted with a ATB STM, we will never see a 1216 approved for the Netherlands.


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## AlbertJP

There has apparently been a 1216 in the Netherlands once (website currently offline but the page can be retrieved from archive.is), but the certification is indeed an issue. But as the trains are being split/combined on the way, it is not said that all train parts are being pulled by ÖBB locos.

I've seen people on other forums wonder how the ÖBB will deal with the cab ends when trains are combined (a cab end in the middle of the train?) and what will happen to the 3 cars to Brussels ahead of the Amsterdam Nightjet if Nightjets are to be composed of 7-car sets.


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## wbrm

Same question for the Munich - Venice service.


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## M-NL

I thought the idea behind the future NightJet sets was that they operate as fixed consists, just like the RailJet. Two coupled sets depart from Austria and are split somewhere in Germany. One set continues to Belgium, one to the Netherlands. A basic set is indeed 7 cars, but it doesn't have to be. It could also be shortened.
The thing you want to avoid is having to change locos on route. That requires locos that can at least operate in those three countries, hence the high speed testing with the Vectron. And what's weird about a cab end or a loco in the middle of the train? Coupled RailJets have existed for several years now. Proper route planning will avoid having trains the wrong way around. So far ÖBB has managed just fine in keeping all RailJet sets pointing the right way.


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## Josp64

Actually, I´m also of the opinion that ÖBB has some thoughts and intentions belonging the use of these new trains, so they surely have chosen a look or design of the NJ which is suitable.....I think, they will use vectrons for these trains, and anyway, for me they look cool and modern....


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## rheintram

The new nightjet 2 are fixed units and individual cars can only be decoupled in a maintenance facility. The cab end features a regular UIC coupler, so conventional nightjet coaches can be added to the train. I supposed they will do that for through coaches.

Btw. in terms of certification these nightjet 2 and also all railjets are considered EMUs. The only difference between them and say a classic ICE 1 or ICE 2 is that their power car is a (somewhat modified) stock locomotive.


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## M-NL

The ICE1/ICE2 power cars are in essence Baureihe 120 loco's in a different body, optimised for higher speed. They only differ 4 tons in weight. 
ÖBB could also have chosen to buy locomotives with a cab on one end only, like the FS E.464, or with a flat end cab on one side, like the BR class 91, but that would only have been for the looks only, as it wouldn't have brought any other benefit.


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## TER200

Better aerodynamics and less noise, maybe ? But this requires a tight gap between the vehicles.


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## rheintram

M-NL said:


> The ICE1/ICE2 power cars are in essence Baureihe 120 loco's in a different body, optimised for higher speed. They only differ 4 tons in weight.
> ÖBB could also have chosen to buy locomotives with a cab on one end only, like the FS E.464, or with a flat end cab on one side, like the BR class 91, but that would only have been for the looks only, as it wouldn't have brought any other benefit.


They actually considered removing one of the 1116 cabs initially for the railjet. But then it was chosen to keep them. It would have added to the cost and not made any sense.


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## rheintram

A first look inside the refurbished nightjet coaches. They are looking great imo!


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## KingNick

I agree. They look very modern but also comfy (I especially like the keycards).


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## Coccodrillo

rheintram said:


> They actually considered removing one of the 1116 cabs initially for the railjet. But then it was chosen to keep them. It would have added to the cost and not made any sense.


That's what Trenitalia did with its E 402A, renumbering them E 401. But they did that mostly to circumvent a legislation that unions strongly support: basically, if the cabin can be accessed by other train staff (train guards who check tickets) when the train is running, you need only one train driver instead of two. Union strongly oppose the removal of the second train driver, and I think Italy is the only European network that still requires it (there are certainly exceptions elsehwere, but in Italy being two is still the norm).

Some pictures during the works: Motrici monocabina italiane parte 3: FS E.401

And the end result: https://rail.pictures/picture/32103


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## doc7austin

Trip Report about the ÖBB Railjet Train RJ 265 Graz - Vienna - Prague - Dresden - Berlin in Business Class:







Enjoy!


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## rheintram

Innsbruck got a new railway station, it opened yesterday:


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## rheintram

A pretty cool video by ÖBB advertising their local services:


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## rheintram

Short Siemens video advertising the new nightjet generation they are currently building:


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## doc7austin

A railway trip report about the train connection from Berlin to the Austrian Alps (e.g. Leoben, Villach, and Lienz in Osttirol) -> this is part 1:









Enjoy!


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## Limassoler

rudiwien said:


> ÖBB certainly doesn't consider this connection important. From 2010 to 2013, there weren't even any direct trains from Graz to Linz. Luckily that was reinstated, but it is only 2 connections a day, 3 hours travel time...


I'm reviving the little chapter of the conversation that I started up myself some 4 years ago, with this new video by ÖBB regarding the modernisation of the Linz-Graz rail line:


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## rheintram

Rebuilt train station in Rum near Innsbruck (under construction). This station will become a major interchange between the S-Bahn, the tramway and the regional and city bus network.


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## Nik name

Austria plans to eliminate VAT on train services running international in the country. Those services won’t have to pay VAT for the Austrian track length. Hopefully some other countries join this thoughts to competition between air and rail a little bit more fair.

Internationale Zugtickets werden teilweise von Umsatzsteuer befreit


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## rheintram

Good initative - but I'm afraid operators will use it to just bump up ticket prices.


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## AlbertJP

In Germany, the Sparpreise were reduced in price when the VAT on them was reduced, so that was partially passed on to the passengers.

In this case there is some pressure to reduce ticket prices because Westbahn and ÖBB compete with each other on the international route to Munich.


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## [email protected]




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## Nik name

New Interior for Nightjet gen 2.


















Neues Innendesign für ÖBB-Nightjets


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## mh7

ÖBB NightJet next Generation … will start from Vienna and Munich to Venice, Milan and Rome from September 2023.
Pics: ÖBB


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## kokomo

Nice🤩🤩🤩🤩


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## mh7

ÖBB NightJet next Generation Virtual Tour









Schlafwagen NJ


Virtual Tour



storage.net-fs.com


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## Slartibartfas

Finally. It is hard to expand the night train network when you are out of trains ... not for much longer. 
I am also excited to see how those "capsules" will be doing.


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## M-NL

Question: Are the ÖBB NightJet next Generation sets only supposed to operate as sets, meaning you can only extend a train by coupling complete sets or would it be possible to couple extra regular coaches to the rear of the train, even if that means that the loco is now in the middle of the train or that the maximum speed is limited to 200 km/h or less?


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## Nik name

M-NL said:


> Question: Are the ÖBB NightJet next Generation sets only supposed to operate as sets, meaning you can only extend a train by coupling complete sets or would it be possible to couple extra regular coaches to the rear of the train, even if that means that the loco is now in the middle of the train or that the maximum speed is limited to 200 km/h or less?


Only as sets, ÖBB would couple two sets, if they need to.
Maximum speed is 230 km/h.


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## M-NL

I know they do not intend to add extra coaches and use complete sets only, but is there something with NightJet (or RailJet) sets that would preclude them from towing extra coaches or is it technically possible, but they're not using the feature?


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## wbrm

They do that with current Railjet sets so I suppose they didn’t drop this flexibility with the new generation?


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## AlbertJP

According to a German forum, the sets have a normal coupling and gangway at the loco end, which could allow additional coaches between the loco and the set. (By the way, in which Railjet trains is such a feature used? I only know of Railjets where two sets of loco+carriages are coupled together.)


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## Nik name

M-NL said:


> I know they do not intend to add extra coaches and use complete sets only, but is there something with NightJet (or RailJet) sets that would preclude them from towing extra coaches or is it technically possible, but they're not using the feature?


Sorry, I misunderstood your question. I suggest thats it’s technically possible. Maybe it would be a problem to run such compositions in e.g. Italy as they have restrictions with fire evacuation fittings, but I don’t know yet


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## M-NL

If you don't get the expected answer, it could also be that the question was not clear enough.
DB used to operate the Metropolitan trainsets, which could only be operated with certain BR101s, which had modifications specific for the Metropolitan sets. For instance, due to a difference in the door locking procedure, you could not add 'regulars' cars to these sets. So I was wondering if RailJet/NightJet sets had something similar.


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## mh7

More than 7 coaches are possible. ÖBB annouced that some of new Railjet sets will be longer and have more than 7 coaches. On this video you can see two new Nightjet sets with 9 coaches instead of 7.


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## wbrm

In the original order the Nightjets have 7 coaches and the Railjets have 9. I don’t know if there are plans to change that. I don’t think so (for testing purposes both Nightjet and Railjet coaches are used in mixed compositions). The question that remains is that old conventional coaches can be added as very occasionally happens on current Railjets?


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## M-NL

Aren't all Railjets 7 coaches, because that makes the train including loco 200m long, so you can couple two sets for the maximum allowed 400m of passenger trains? Or is Austria equipped for over 400m trains? For instance, SNCF TGV Atlantique sets are 237m long and you can couple two of them. Most stations outside their regular service area couldn't handle such long trains.


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## AlbertJP

The new Railjets are made to replace the Eurocity Brenner, which runs with 9-carriage loco hauled trains at the moment.

Current Railjets use TB S for door control, just like the current Nightjet. I don't expect any difference here in the new sets. And the mechanical connections to traditional coaches are clearly there at the loco end of the 7-car Nightjet set.


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## AndreiB

Are there any onboard train management software issues that preclude attaching standard UIC coaches?


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## TER200

Yes, railjets are totally compatible with other coaches (and locomotives which have the same control systems).
example : ČD’s Railjets - With RZD Sleepers!


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## AndreiB

TER200 said:


> Yes, railjets are totally compatible with other coaches (and locomotives which have the same control systems).
> example : ČD’s Railjets - With RZD Sleepers!


That is they way - UIC universal compatibility should be maintained at all costs!


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## Poorna90

*Morning Trains at Klagenfurt West Bahnhof Railway Station in Austria*


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## Poorna90

*Railfanning at Klagenfurt Lend Railway Station in Austria*


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## Poorna90

*Railfanning at Vienna International Airport Railway Station (Bahnhof Flughafen Wien) in Austria *






Here you can see Airport CAT trains, Railjet trains, and a few Cityjet trains. The station is always busy with people coming from the airport. The filmed date is the 03rd of December 2022.


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## nsnikolov

I saw that the direct sleeping car N815 Vienna - Timişoara - Craiova - Bucharest will run only "if needed" in the new timetable. Can someone explain me what does "if needed" mean?
vagonWEB » Řazení vlaků » 2023 » ÖBB D/Gy/IRN » D/Gy/IRN 347 Dacia


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## Slartibartfas

Very recent cab ride from Vienna Hbf via Marchegg to Bratislava hl.st.
It shows very nicely the progress of the corridor upgrade. Electrification appears to be complete up to Marchegg already. A lot of work is still ongoing on double tracking and nothing visible has happened to date from Marchegg to Devinska Nova Ves.


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## Poorna90

*Busy Evening Trains at Vienna's Main Railway Station (Wien Hauptbahnhof) in Austria*


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## doc7austin

Inside ÖBB Nightjet Train NJ 456 Vienna - Berlin in an Economy Sleeping Car cabin:







Enjoy!


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## Poorna90

*Train Journey from Weizelsdorf Bahnhof to Klagenfurt HBF in Carinthia, Austria 





*
This is the latest train service addition to Austrian railways in Carinthia. It was officially opened from 11th of Sunday, December 2022. Here, I have recorded the entire train journey from Weizelsdorf Bahnhof to Klagenfurt. The journey took around 16 minutes to reach the station. There are only four stations on the way which are Maria Rain in Ktn Bahnhof, Köttmannsdorf Lambichl, Klagenfurt Süd Bahnhof, and lastly Klagenfurt HBF.


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## Poorna90

Does anyone know what are these called?


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