# DENMARK | Railways



## Wallaroo

*-----------*

Sorry, wrong thread.


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## Wallaroo

I strongly believe that Denmark has the worst railway system in Western Europe, both when it comes to the infrastructure and the national railways (DSB). 

There has not been build a single new intercity railway line in this country since the 19th century, which means that all intercity trains runs in the old trace with a lot of sharp curves (not suitable for high speeds) and through all kinds of small towns where they don't stop anymore. As if that wasn't enough, most of the railroad tracks on the intercity lines are in a very bad shape. This means that there are a lot of delays (almost 10% of DSBs trains) and that they need to reduce speed from a maximum of 180 km/h to only 120 km/h. Last but not least, the signalling is for the most part completely outdated with various old systems that doesn't work together. :hammer: 


The black/red is the main intercity lines in the country.









This is the maximum allowed speeds, but they have been temporary reduced to 120 km/h due to poor tracks.









Only 446 km are electrified. What a joke! hno: 









A typical danish train on a typical danish railway. Poor old tracks and outdated signalling. Sharp curves and low speeds.


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## Rebasepoiss

^That has to be the ugliest train i've ever seen. Don't know what to say about Danish railways though. The system could and should be better for such a rich country, I think.


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## ChrisZwolle

In the Netherlands, speeds are also rarely over 120 - 140km/h, so it's not that bad. Distances are short in Denmark, so 120 or 180 doesn't make THAT much difference. 

But thats very few electrified! I thought the main N-S line on Jutland should be electrified, but it turns out that it isn't. I also thought the line Rodby - Kobenhavn was electrified. At least all intercity lines should be electrified..

But, is the Danish railroad important for Denmark? I mean, why put large amounts of money in it, while nobody uses it?


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## Rebasepoiss

Chris1491 said:


> In the Netherlands, speeds are also rarely over 120 - 140km/h, so it's not that bad. Distances are short in Denmark, so 120 or 180 doesn't make THAT much difference.
> 
> But thats very few electrified! I thought the main N-S line on Jutland should be electrified, but it turns out that it isn't. I also thought the line Rodby - Kobenhavn was electrified. At least all intercity lines should be electrified..
> 
> But, is the Danish railroad important for Denmark? I mean, why put large amounts of money in it, while nobody uses it?


But then you have to ask: Maybe the low amount of passengers is caused by the bad condition of the railways system?


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## freeluas

*Iceland*

Iceland must be worse, no trains at all.


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## city_thing

I lived in CPH for quite a while, and the trains were always quite good.

The UK probably has the worst system in Western Europe, even if they don't consider themselves European.


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## Bahnsteig4

> The UK probably has the worst system in Western Europe.


Amen!


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## Ning

Ireland/UK has the worst


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## Coccodrillo

Chris1491 said:


> I also thought the line Rodby - Kobenhavn was electrified.


It will be electrified with the construction of the Fehmarn Belt bridge.


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## sweek

city_thing said:


> I lived in CPH for quite a while, and the trains were always quite good.
> 
> The UK probably has the worst system in Western Europe, even if they don't consider themselves European.


The UK has one of the biggest systems, speeds are going up, frequency is going up too, and a lot money is being invested. More and more old trains are being replaced, too. The UK system in the late 80s / early 90s must've been one of the worst, though.
Ireland, for example, is way worse. Norway is not particularly good either. Finnish railways aren't all that either... just to give a few examples.


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## Rebasepoiss

sweek said:


> The UK has one of the biggest systems, speeds are going up, frequency is going up too, and a lot money is being invested. More and more old trains are being replaced, too. The UK system in the late 80s / early 90s must've been one of the worst, though.
> Ireland, for example, is way worse. Norway is not particularly good either. Finnish railways aren't all that either... just to give a few examples.


What's wrong with Finnish railways?


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## DiggerD21

Rebasepoiss said:


> ^That has to be the ugliest train i've ever seen.


But they are very comfortable. Had a pleasant trip with such a train.

Regarding the danish network: Basicly three electrified tracks are sufficient for Denmark. West-East-connection Esbjerg-Kolding-Fredericia-Odense-Copenhagen, south-north connection Padborg-Abenra-Kolding-Veijle-Arhus-Aalborg-Skagen and Copenhagen-Rodbyhavn (-Fehmarnbeltbridge-Lübeck-Hamburg). The rest is too sparsely populated.


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## sweek

Rebasepoiss said:


> What's wrong with Finnish railways?


There's not much of it, and it's not very frequent. Nothing wrong with the trains, though.


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## keber

Wallaroo said:


> A typical danish train on a typical danish railway. Poor old tracks and outdated signalling. Sharp curves and low speeds.


Track seems to be in very good shape. Train, while ugly, still looks quite new. Can't comment about signaling, but it's at least not mechanical as some railways in W Europe (and not only sidings). So I wouldn't groan about that picture. It's not TGV however ...:lol:


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## Conrad

Yes, I've always wondered how a country like Denmark can have such a bad railway network.

I'm pretty satisfied with the Swedish raillines.



sweek said:


> There's not much of it, and it's not very frequent. Nothing wrong with the trains, though.


hmm.. not much?

I think this is more than enough for a geographically large country with a population of 5million:
(green = passenger&-freight-traffic)








and as far as i recall that map is even outdated.

the length of the finnish railway network is 5,740 kilometer. 2,620 kilometer of that is electrified.


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## sweek

t


Conrad said:


> Yes, I've always wondered how a country like Denmark can have such a bad railway network.
> 
> I'm pretty satisfied with the Swedish raillines.
> 
> 
> hmm.. not much?
> 
> I think this is more than enough for a geographically large country with a population of 5million:
> (green = passenger&-freight-traffic)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and as far as i recall that map is even outdated.
> 
> the length of the finnish railway network is 5,740 kilometer. 2,620 kilometer of that is electrified.


Well, 93% of that is single track lines, according to this source. And again, frequencies didn't seem very high when I was there.


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## virgule82

sweek said:


> t
> Well, 93% of that is single track lines, according to this source. And again, frequencies didn't seem very high when I was there.


Don't know about the frequencies, but double track lines don't always make sense. In sparsely populated countries like Finland, Norway etc, there's rarely enough traffic to fill up the capacity of even single track lines, except around major cities. If there are enough crossings, single track lines can be (almost) as good enough as double track lines and make a lot more economic sense a lot of places.


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## GNU

I think the UK has the worst. (Privatisation of public transports sucks big time) They really need to get in more investments there.
Considering Denmark: Ive only used trains once there.
It was ok, however when we went back to Germany with the night train they used a Diesel locomotive on the danish tracks.
The exhausts came into the cabin which was very annoying.


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## FREKI

Wallaroo said:


> I strongly believe that Denmark has the worst railway system in Western Europe, both when it comes to the infrastructure and the national railways (DSB).


Good for you... however you are forgetting that we don't have a national rail line.. it's all privatised!

You also mention that there haven't been build any intercity railway line in this country since the 19th century,, then how exactly do one get to Malmø? Or Funen from Zealand? :lol: 

But yes there haven't been any completely new lines build as we already have the country covered - where would you build it? 

You also forget to mention the HUGE exhanging of old track currently beng done... ( why there are the delays and the current temp. speedlimit )

But hey feel and write as you like... 


As for it being the worst in Western Europe I guess you don't travel much... while the top speed IS low the quality is way above just about everywhere I've used train in Europe.. inc. places like Norway, the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany...


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## mlm

Chris1491 said:


> But, is the Danish railroad important for Denmark? I mean, why put large amounts of money in it, while nobody uses it?


Well it's not like nobody uses it. In 2006 there was a total of ~163 million passengers on the trains (normal trains and S-Trains, a little more than half was on the S-Trains).

I agree though, that the Danish systems need upgrading badly.



Mr_Denmark said:


> I haven't seen the old ( "bumletog" ) model in years - where the heck are they still operating? :lol:


Well, DSB seems to use them in the evening and some early mornings on lines like Herning-Vejle. Atleast I was with one of them about a month ago. Most of the trains used there are IC3 tough. And then we have the new Arriva trains of course, which seems quite good.


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## milwaukee-københavn

Momo1435 said:


> There is open access in Denmark, ARRIVA will soon start services between Copenhagen and Arhus. This will be the first real direct competition in Denmark.


I had never heard about this. I was under the impression from the few times that I have talked to people in DSB and the Transport Ministry that they were planning on waiting to begin privatised services until the majority of rails were fixed. I hope we are not on our way down the same route as Britian.



> German railways, the DB and most of the private railways have invested heavily in new regional rolling stock. The DSB profited from this, because it could easily lease some new bi-level coaches that were initially intended for the DB. Because of the big German orders the manufacturer, Bombardier could sell them to the lease company without delaying the DB's orders to much. That's benefiting from mass production, too bad they choose AnsaldoBreda for the IC4, were something like this isn't possible.


DSB has continually invested in better trains than DB. The IC4 is a bit of a fiasco but all of the IC trains are still of a much better quality than anything found on DB lines. Most of the DB regional trains are awful, many are also very old. I would rather have better quality trains and have to wait longer to get them than just buy off the shelf.



> Most of the new electrification in Denmark is for the S-tog services around Copenhagen, that has a different electric current than the main lines.
> The decision to buy IC4 and IC2 as DMU's instead of EMU's was made because it was decided *not* to electrify more big routes. Now only the freight route from Germany to Sweden is electrified, DSB is now even selling off all of it's remaining electric loco's. They only had the 30 year old type EA electric loco's left,  see here. And the DSB is not buying any new loco's, especially since they don't run any freight trains anymore since DSB Gods was sold to Railion (DB Logistics).


According to Banedanmarks website, they are planning on electifying Frederencia-Århus. They are also planning on electrifying Ringsted-Nykøbing Falster-Femeren with the possibility of a bridge to Rostok, and are working on electrifying from Ringsted- through Odense- to Padborg. So, al in all, that is a pretty big portion of the Danish railways. The Litra ER-FR-FR-ER trains (IC3, I think) are all electric and meant to be used for both regional and long-distance traffic.


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## mlm

milwaukee-københavn said:


> The IC4 is a bit of a fiasco but all of the IC trains are still of a much better quality than anything found on DB lines. Most of the DB regional trains are awful, many are also very old.


Have you ever been on an ICE train?? It's surely atleast as good as the IC3 trains IMO. And as I just wrote in my previous post, those old "bumletog" are actually still in use sometimes...When on them, it feels like they go so slow you could run faster next to the train. :nuts: I doubt you'll find much worse trains than those on the German lines...

I took the ICE from Frankfurt to Cologne a few years ago, and even though it drove faster than 300 km/h, it felt like it was going through sope or something. Have never experienced a train ride as smooth as that.

Finally, the IC4 "a bit of a fiasco"? It's a HUGE fiasco. Not one single set is in regular operation yet. I still wonder why on earth they choose AnsaldoBreda, since there was a bunch of known issues with them earlier. It's the same situation in Belgium btw, they're also waiting for a bunch of new sets from AnsaldoBreda, also very much delayed.


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## Jonesy55

SmarterChild said:


> According to the site of the Swedish Railways 2-3 Oslo-Stockholm I.C. trains run daily.
> 
> Oslo-Cph runs with 1 xchange in Got.


That's not a lot really, services between similar sized cities elsewhere in Europe (Germany, France, UK, Italy, Benelux, Switzerland etc) would probably be every 60-120 minutes.


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## Yardmaster

Mr_Denmark said:


> Here's the realtime train map of Denmark if anyone cares to see the WORST rail system in the univers!
> 
> http://lp.bane.dk/mapcafe/pass_tog.asp
> 
> ( coloures indicate delays in minuttes )
> 
> 
> And here's the S-Train network in Copenhagen
> http://byenspuls.dsb.dk/byens_puls/ByensPuls.html


Hey! If that's all single track, there's just been half a dozen head-on collisions!


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## milwaukee-københavn

mlm said:


> Have you ever been on an ICE train?? It's surely atleast as good as the IC3 trains IMO. And as I just wrote in my previous post, those old "bumletog" are actually still in use sometimes...When on them, it feels like they go so slow you could run faster next to the train. :nuts: I doubt you'll find much worse trains than those on the German lines...
> 
> I took the ICE from Frankfurt to Cologne a few years ago, and even though it drove faster than 300 km/h, it felt like it was going through sope or something. Have never experienced a train ride as smooth as that.
> 
> Finally, the IC4 "a bit of a fiasco"? It's a HUGE fiasco. Not one single set is in regular operation yet. I still wonder why on earth they choose AnsaldoBreda, since there was a bunch of known issues with them earlier. It's the same situation in Belgium btw, they're also waiting for a bunch of new sets from AnsaldoBreda, also very much delayed.


The ICE trains are faster but not nearly as pleasant to ride on as IC trains in Denmark. The old regional trains are far worse than even the bumletog RE trains. They feel like they were made to be prison trains or cattle cars. The majority of the RE trains run fine- the bumletog is hardly ever used.


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## mlm

milwaukee-københavn said:


> The ICE trains are faster but not nearly as pleasant to ride on as IC trains in Denmark. The old regional trains are far worse than even the bumletog RE trains. They feel like they were made to be prison trains or cattle cars. The majority of the RE trains run fine- the bumletog is hardly ever used.


Well that would be your opinions, and I can't say I agree on with any of them.


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## SmarterChild

Jonesy55 said:


> That's not a lot really, services between similar sized cities elsewhere in Europe (Germany, France, UK, Italy, Benelux, Switzerland etc) would probably be every 60-120 minutes.


The train services between Gothenburg-Malmö-Köpenhamn run every 60 minutes between 06 and 19. 

The trains to Oslo have been cut back in the last years becouse they have not really been suistanable anymore, for several reasons.


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## Grotlaufen

DiggerD21 said:


> The current rail infrastructure should be/ remain nationalised. Train operating can be privatised IMO.


The problem is that it is not as easy to send a freighter (train) across Europe as it is with a lorry. There are some natural technical reasons for this, biggest obstacle are too broad/narrow tracks compared to the standard 1435 mm gauge (the latter being used in UK, whole Scandinavia except Finland, most of continental Europe except some small shortlines, Iberian peninsula and Russia/former Soviet states). Then there are different kinds of signals (though some sort of new signals are under way such as ERTMS which isn´t optical) and so on.

In my opinion, with techinal reasons aside national regulations are a major problem and probably the biggest in Europe. Even though they don´t ask for passports anymore, they still have to change staff from German DB to Austrian ÖBB on the German/Austrian border :bash: (at least, that happened when I went from Munich to Innsbruck) 


Plus, because the railways are "national", this means that border crossings are often veeery slow due to lack of investment. "Why invest on the last stretch, our responsibility ends there!" or whatever the transport department think. This is especially so on the Danish-German border where the double track stretch in Denmark ends 10-20 km from the border and there are plenty of level crossings on the last stretch, and it´s the same between Graz and Maribor (Austria/Slovenia).


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## DiggerD21

mlm said:


> Well that would be your opinions, and I can't say I agree on with any of them.


Better compare german IC trains with the danish ICs. Here the danish ones are superior. Many german ICs don't have proper air condition, but instead you have to open the window, which means lots of noise coming into the wagon.

As for german regional trains: They have improved heavily. Especially on the lines not operated by the DB.


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## Wallaroo

Mr_Denmark said:


> Nothing have happened?
> 
> The IR4 have taken over all the RE lines I've used the last 7 years.. except for the CPH-Kalundborg line that is operated by the Litra AB ( double decker )
> 
> Heck even the small streches in Northern Zealand is now covered by Modern Siemens trains ( Litra MQ )
> IR4


The IR4 (above) only drives IR service on the electrified stretches on Zealand, and sometimes from Cph. - Odense - Fredericia. They still use the horrible old MR2 trains (see pictures below) in a large scale on the non-electrified stratches on Zealand, and in regular IR service on all main lines in Jutland. I have taken them directly from both Padborg to Århus, and from Århus to Frederikshavn a few years ago. They used them on *all* regional stretches in Jutland before Arriva took over in 2003. 

I might add that they are very uncomfortable, noisy, shaky, and polluting - infact they suck monkey balls. :down: 

















Arriva rented over 40 them from DSB when they took over, but have now replaced 29 of them with the much better Lint 41 to the right, which are much more comfortable. Arriva still uses 15 MR2 trains for rush hour traffic, but they have all been completely refurbished with brand new Arriva colors and new interior.


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## milwaukee-københavn

The only line on Sjælland that they use those on is the line from Næstved to Rosklide via Haslev and Køge. That line doesn't get very much ridership and the trains really aren't that bad. All of the other RE routes (electrified or not) on Sjælland use either the IR trains like Mr. Denmark pointed out or the rented double decker Bombardier cars. Lollandsbanen used the MR2 for a while but they have switched over to IR. As far as services in Jylland are concerned, I used to travel frequently between Århus and Aalborg and the only MR2 trains I ever saw were in RE service. Even still, they aren't always used on Grenå services or services to Struer or Esbjerg, which are all RE services run by DSB.


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## Wallaroo

milwaukee-københavn said:


> The Danish railways are almost 100% grade seperated unlike the fastest routes in Germany, so they don't get delayed by someone's cow or Volkswagen.


Its true that railways in Denmark are grade seperated (no railroad crossings) in a much higher extend than they are in Germany - especially the intercity lines. It was done in regards to safety, but its obviously a very expensive solution, so I guess the Germans just wanted to save money. I dont think that trains in Denmark are allowed to drive faster than 120 km/h through a railroad crossing, which I find to be absolute hysterical safety. It seems to work out very well in Germany where trains drive through railroad crossings at 200 km/h. 


> And finally, DSB does not really need high speed service other than maybe on the routes that go to Hamburg and a Stockholm route (if there is one). I used to go visit my family up in Vendsyssel when I lived in Næstved (aka _from one end of the country to the extreme other_) and_ it took less than six hours_. That usually included a self planned lunch break in Odense while I switched trains. _*If the worst you can do from one end of the country to the other is 5,5 hours, what is the point of building HSR?*
> _


It takes almost 6 hours to go directly from Frederikshavn to Copenhagen with the IC trains. It would most likely only take 3,5 hours if it were highspeed.


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## Wallaroo

Momo1435 said:


> Most of the new electrification in Denmark is for the S-tog services around Copenhagen, that has a different electric current than the main lines.
> The decision to buy IC4 and IC2 as DMU's instead of EMU's was made because it was decided *not* to electrify more big routes.


 You are correct, and its a strange decision when you consider the relative low cost of electrifying railroads. I would assume that electrification from Fredericia to Frederikshavn wouldn't cost more than a billion dkr. On the other hand, the new diesel technology have made diesel trains very environment friendly, and just as fast as electric trains.


> Now only the freight route from Germany to Sweden is electrified, DSB is now even selling off all of it's remaining electric loco's. They only had the 30 year old type EA electric loco's left,  see here.


I wonder how much they want for their locomotives? Theres no price on them! :weird:


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## Wallaroo

milwaukee-københavn said:


> DSB has continually invested in better trains than DB. The IC4 is a bit of a fiasco but all of the IC trains are still of a much better quality than anything found on DB lines. Most of the DB regional trains are awful, many are also very old. I would rather have better quality trains and have to wait longer to get them than just buy off the shelf.


I havent tried many different regional trains in Germany, but they all look good and most of them are build within the last 15 years. http://www.railfaneurope.net/list/germany/germany_db_mu.html

They are most definitely not worse than the DSB MR2.


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## Coccodrillo

Wallaroo said:


> I dont think that trains in Denmark are allowed to drive faster than 120 km/h through a railroad crossing, which I find to be absolute hysterical safety. It seems to work out very well in Germany where trains drive through railroad crossings at 200 km/h.


A private car running at 40 km/h kills with a probablity of 80% any person it invest.

A train running at just 60 km/h would destroy _everything_.


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## iampuking

Britain has the worst trains in Western Europe, expensive, slow and cramped. I blame Thatcher. That bitch.


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## Momo1435

Wallaroo said:


> I havent tried many different regional trains in Germany, but they all look good and most of them are build within the last 15 years. http://www.railfaneurope.net/list/germany/germany_db_mu.html
> 
> They are most definitely not worse than the DSB MR2.


The thing about the German regional trains is that the new trains are more modern then the old ones but far less comfortable.


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## hix

iampuking said:


> Britain has the worst trains in Western Europe, expensive, slow and cramped. I blame Thatcher. That bitch.


I have taken the train often in the uk and I had only one complaint: expensive. But it seems that you can buy your tickets cheaper in advance.


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## milwaukee-københavn

Wallaroo said:


> I havent tried many different regional trains in Germany, but they all look good and most of them are build within the last 15 years. http://www.railfaneurope.net/list/germany/germany_db_mu.html
> 
> They are most definitely not worse than the DSB MR2.


Having lived near Haslev (where they use MR2 trains) for far too long and having visited NordRheinWestfalia, where there is probably the largest concentration of RE trains in Germany far too many times, I assure you that the MR2 is much nicer than all but the absolute newest German RE trains. The german trains are, as a general rule, not nearly as well cared for as DSB trains (aka you find trash, vomit, beer, etc in train cabins, often the next day). They are not nearly as comfortably appointed as DSB trains either (hard vinyl seats, dirty cabins, etc). 

While I agree with the idea that the Danish railway system could be much better, I don't think it is anywhere near the worst in Europe. Yes, the track desperately needs to be replaced over much of the country, and electrification should be sped up. However, every DSB line that I know of, even lightly travelled ones, has at least hourly service, the system covers the entire country quite well, the stations and trains are all in good shape and either have been or are being replaced/remodeled, and the cost (for Denmark) of riding trains is not very high. All in all not a bad system.


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## sumisu

Ireland has absolutely the worst rail network in Western Europe. To say otherwise is simply blasphemy.


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## Jonesy55

sumisu said:


> Ireland has absolutely the worst rail network in Western Europe. To say otherwise is simply blasphemy.


What about Iceland?


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## xote

Jonesy55 said:


> What about Iceland?


Well, given that Iceland has not even a population (only about 300.000) large enough to jusfity a train system if it were a city, let alone a country, I think they can be forgiven. Ireland on the otherhand with 4 million+ people has a horrific railway system.


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## Wallaroo

sumisu said:


> Ireland has absolutely the worst rail network in Western Europe. To say otherwise is simply blasphemy.


At least Ireland has an excuse for that (unlike Denmark), since their country used to be among the poorest in Western Europe until just recently. I assume they have big plans for future ralway systems.


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## Jonesy55

xote said:


> Well, given that Iceland has not even a population (only about 300.000) large enough to jusfity a train system if it were a city, let alone a country, I think they can be forgiven. Ireland on the otherhand with 4 million+ people has a horrific railway system.


I just checked the Irish national rail website, a journey between the two major cities of Dublin and Cork takes 2H50 and costs €55 for a return trip, that is slow considering the distance is only 250Km.


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## Wallaroo

Jonesy55 said:


> I just checked the Irish national rail website, a journey between the two major cities of Dublin and Cork takes 2H50 and costs €55 for a return trip, that is slow considering the distance is only 250Km.


Its actually both the same price and time as a simular distance in Denmark.


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## xote

Jonesy55 said:


> I just checked the Irish national rail website, a journey between the two major cities of Dublin and Cork takes 2H50 and costs €55 for a return trip, that is slow considering the distance is only 250Km.


Sounds like Amtrak in the US. :banana:


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## Dan

No...Amtra would be 7 hours late and take 20 hours.


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## xote

Dan1113 said:


> No...Amtra would be 7 hours late and take 20 hours.


:lol:


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## sotavento

Jonesy55 said:


> Only somebody who has never been to Ireland could say that the UK has the worst rail in Western Europe. We don't have the best either but how about countries like Portugal.
> 
> The % of delays in the UK sounds similar to Denmark (just under 10%) and we have a small HSR section between London and the Channel Tunnel. There are still many countries that don't have any HSR.
> 
> Our non-HSR mainlines are pretty quick with good regular services. The East and West coast mainlines have a top speed of 200kph which is faster than many countries trunk services, London-Newcastle for example takes 3 hours or less, that's an average speed of 155kph, services every 30 minutes. London-Manchester takes just over 2 hours with a service every 30 minutes, average speed 145kph.
> 
> As a comparison, the French TGV network has average speed of around 170-220kph but usually the services are less frequent, once every 60-90 minutes is common. In Germany Koln-Stuttgart averages 160kph, services every 60 minutes. Copenhagen Odense averages 110kph.
> 
> The network is comprehensive going to most parts of the country and most main routes are electrified. There are plenty of commuter services around most big cities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The rail system has seen passenger numbers increase by 50% over the past ten years which has caused some overcrowding on busy routes which is now the main problem. But most rolling stock is now pretty modern and in good condition and there has been £ billions of investment in improving track and signalling in recent years. There is room for improvement for sure but the worst in W. Europe? Not by a long way imo.


^^ We are dirty poor ... but 1/2 hour network is electrified and 1/4th is operated at speeds >160kmh ... while our Intercity network operates as 220kmh (200kmh for loco haouled trains of upto 14 coaches) hno:

But the UK Intercity is mainly run with IC225, c390 Pendulinos , v2xx voyager's and IC125 at 200kmh speeds ... don't know why British people complain so much about their HUGE network ... 

French for example have only some FEW mainlines at 300kmh and the majority of the rest is curvy track and slow running. hno:

Denmark Intercity network is pretty awesome considering that its a small country ... some "regions" of bigger countries would kill to have a regional fast network in the same level of us smaller countries. :cheers:


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## Wallaroo

sotavento said:


> Denmark Intercity network is pretty awesome considering that its a small country ... some "regions" of bigger countries would kill to have a regional fast network in the same level of us smaller countries. :cheers:


I disagree big time! Almost all the biggest cities in Denmark lies as pearls on a string - Ålborg - Randers - Århus - Horsens - Vejle - Fredericia - Odense - Roskilde - Copenhagen. This means that the main intercity line in Denmark is probably just as important as the west coast main line in the UK. Even so, the tracks are still in the same trace as they were back in the 19th century, and the trains can therefore not drive faster than 160 km/h most of the time. I would say that the intercity main line in Denmark is extremely poor considering how good it could and should be.


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## Coccodrillo

The worst rail system in Western Europe is probably the italian one 

Trains are very often late and dirty.

They are quite frequent on main routes, thought up to 3 or 4 per hour. 1 fast or (in the future) high-speed train, 1 InterCity (fast), 1 InterRegio (semi-fast) and one or mroe regional or suburban.

Another problem is that there are about 27 different tariff, so it is not easy to change tickets.

In Switzerland you can buy a return ticket and make the return trip when you want, in Italy you have to change the reservation at the ticket office or pay a fine on the train. The problem is that often ticket vending machines are broken and ticket offices closed or with a lot of people queuing for thrm...


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## Jonesy55

sotavento said:


> ^^ We are dirty poor ... but 1/2 hour network is electrified and 1/4th is operated at speeds >160kmh ... while our Intercity network operates as 220kmh (200kmh for loco haouled trains of upto 14 coaches) hno:


Yeah, sorry, the mainlines on the Portuguese network seem pretty good actually.

Portugal was just an example that came to mind because my only experience of Portuguese trains is taking a very slow service from Faro to Vila Real de San Antonio in the Algarve but that isn't really representative I think


----------



## Wallaroo

Coccodrillo said:


> The worst rail system in Western Europe is probably the italian one
> 
> Trains are very often late and dirty.
> 
> They are quite frequent on main routes, thought up to 3 or 4 per hour. 1 fast or (in the future) high-speed train, 1 InterCity (fast), 1 InterRegio (semi-fast) and one or mroe regional or suburban.
> 
> Another problem is that there are about 27 different tariff, so it is not easy to change tickets.
> 
> In Switzerland you can buy a return ticket and make the return trip when you want, in Italy you have to change the reservation at the ticket office or pay a fine on the train. The problem is that often ticket vending machines are broken and ticket offices closed or with a lot of people queuing for thrm...


It works very well with train tickets in Denmark except for the stupid new ticket machines which are completely idiotic made. However, the italian tracks are usually much better than the danish tracks, and also suitable for higher speeds.

Maybe Switzerland has the best railway system in Europe?


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## Federicoft

^^
I second that.


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## Hubert Pollak

I think thath every system has a lot of adventage and disadventage.
For some people the most important is cleanness, for some the most important is is the price (Ireland), for some speed (France), for some modern stations (Germany) etc


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## Wallaroo

Hubert Pollak said:


> I think thath every system has a lot of adventage and disadventage.
> For some people the most important is cleanness, for some the most important is is the price (Ireland), for some speed (France), for some modern stations (Germany) etc


The most important for me is comfort, speed, price, and simplicity. I dont care much about new stations/new trains or their design.


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## daniboy

sumisu said:


> Ireland has absolutely the worst rail network in Western Europe. To say otherwise is simply blasphemy.


+1


----------



## sweek

daniboy said:


> +1


Ireland is investing and upgrading their network, though. It is getting better and better, and I hope the Western Corridor gets rebuilt completely.


----------



## sotavento

Wallaroo said:


> I disagree big time! Almost all the biggest cities in Denmark lies as pearls on a string - Ålborg - Randers - Århus - Horsens - Vejle - Fredericia - Odense - Roskilde - Copenhagen. This means that the main intercity line in Denmark is probably just as important as the west coast main line in the UK. Even so, the tracks are still in the same trace as they were back in the 19th century, and the trains can therefore not drive faster than 160 km/h most of the time. I would say that the intercity main line in Denmark is extremely poor considering how good it could and should be.


Dunno ... we were just "upgrading" our network with Pendulino trains to "save" on infraesructure expenditures and ended up with some 600km of 220km/h railtrack. :lol:

You upgraded to 140/180 km/h and got precisely that ... but upgrading from "classic" lines at 140 km/h in such short distances as most of Danish rails going from 140km/h to 220 km/h don't bring that much gains ... better to mae sure everyting gets upgraded to 140. hno:

As a sidenotice ... how the hell did you and Swedes managed to MISS an entire island on that Oresund Link ???


----------



## sotavento

Jonesy55 said:


> Yeah, sorry, the mainlines on the Portuguese network seem pretty good actually.
> 
> Portugal was just an example that came to mind because my only experience of Portuguese trains is taking a very slow service from Faro to Vila Real de San Antonio in the Algarve but that isn't really representative I think


Faro-VRSA is only (like they did in denmark) being "renewed" ... they are indecisive between upgrading the current line to better standards or buildig a new HSL to join Faro-Huelva-Sevilla , leaving the current line to local comuter trains (wich nowadays is the only thing there actualy).


----------



## Chafford1

Jonesy55 said:


> ...as somebody who travelled about 32,000 kms last year on the UK rail network I can say that it's definitely better than a few years ago and provides a much better service than it is often credited for.
> 
> The main priority now should be to increase capacity so that overcrowding on the busy routes is eased but the network as a whole is heading in the right direction.



Fair comments. Much better than 7 or 8 years ago, and the Government has recently ordered 1300 new carriages and is planning a further 1000 -2000 diesel, electric and hybrid multiple units as part of the Intercity Express Programme.


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## milwaukee-københavn

*DSB: The Danish State Railways*

I thought it would be interesting to start a general thread about the Danish State Railways since I didn't see another one here. 

*DSB* http://www.dsb.dk









The company's mascot /DSB

DSB runs all of the mainline Danish railways, as well as the majority of the smaller side lines. The remaining lines are rural local railways scattered around the country (owned and operated by the regional governments) and a few low-traffic lines across Jylland contracted out to Arriva.









Map of DSB lines /DSB


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## FREKI

Harry still going strong after so many years :lol:










As for the thread, nice idea mate, looking forward to see where you take it


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## milwaukee-københavn

*DSB History*

The first railway was built in Denmark in 1847 as a private initative between Copenhagen and Roskilde. The first lines in Jylland and on the island of Fyn were built in 1862 and 1865. Because these lines were less profitable, they were almost immediately taken over by the state. DSB was founded in 1885 after the rest of the Danish railways were taken over by the state. Ferry service was soon started between Jylland, Fyn, Sjælland, and Sweden continuing until the completion of the Storbælt and Öresund bridge/tunnels in 1998 and 2000. The trains from Copenhagen to Berlin stil operate over ferries for part of the trip. 

By the 1930's, most of the rail net had been built. In 1932, DSB started it's own bus services, which operated most rural and some city buses until the 1990's. The S-tog commuter system was also built in 1934, although it has only recently been finished with a ring line. 









Roskilde Station, the oldest in Denmark /DSB









Copenhagen Central Station /yasmin Flickr









1800's Steam Train on Sjælland /maaloevbylaug.dk









Old Lyntog Inter City Train with the characteristic modernistic design. Last in service in 1990. /Jernbanebilleder.dk









DSB rural bus from 1950's (I think) with the old DSB logo on front /danskebusser.dk









Older DSB City bus at Næstved Station in 1987 /danskebusser.dk









DSB Ferry "Kronprins Frederik" /kwmosgaard.dk









First generation S-tog at Klampenborg Station /myldretid.dk


----------



## milwaukee-københavn

*DSB Trains*

The majority of the Danish rail net is not-electrified, although this may change soon if the AnsaldoBreda IC4 order is cancelled. The main line across Sjælland, Fyn and Southern Jylland however is electrified, as is the S-tog and the Öresundstog between Helsingør and Sweden. Over the rest of the system, DSB uses older diesel locomotive hauled trainsets and diesel multiple units. 









Old Bumletog regional train cars. These were supposed to be retired years ago but are still in use due to problems with the IC4 /DSB 









Loaned double decker cars made by Bombardier. They're used on regional routes and occasionaly on intercity routes during high demand /DSB









IC3 Train. The IC3s are used on all intercity routes as well as regional routes on Sjælland. Some are electric, some dmu /DSB









Train conductor inside the 2nd class of a IC3. Every IC3 is decorated by an artist based on a particular theme. /DSB









ICE Train operated by DSB & DB on the route between Berlin/Hamburg and Copenhagen via the ferry. Not high speed in Denmark, though /DSB 









Loaned Siemens Desiro trains used on the Svendborg/Odense regional line on Fyn

The newest DSB train is the IC4 which was ordered from AnsaldoBreda according to DSB's specifications in 2000. All 83 IC4 trains were supposed to be delivered by 2004, but as of now, only a handfull have been delivered and put into service due to a number of serious technical problems. The IC4 has become something of a national spectacle, as AnsaldoBreda and DSB blame each other for the delay, DSB customers still have to use decades old trains that were supposed to be retired, and costs continue to rise. DSB has now said that if the trains aren't all delivered by this May, it will cancel the contract. It looks like this will probably happen, in which case the Danish government has expressed interest in investing in electrifying the Inter City lines and buying off-the-shelf electric trainsets instead. 

That being said, the new trains are impressive in action. 









IC4 train in Århus /DSB









Inside. Second and first class are virtually identical in the IC4 /DSB

*The S-tog Commuter System*

The S-tog system uses two variations of its 4th generation trainset made by Alstom and Siemens. The look identical but have different lengths.









Line A in Frederiksberg /DSB









/DSB


----------



## gramercy

this reminds me, check this out: the Cobehnavn-Berlin ICE inside a ship, alongside a truck 
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=253205&nseq=2


----------



## gramercy

here is a map of the network:
http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/maps/scandinavian-peninsulas-network/scandinavian-peninsulas.gif

and the danish rolling-stock:
http://www.railfaneurope.net/list/denmark.html#01

---

what I dont understand, is that denmark being so green (leader in wind energy etc), why is there only 1 main line electrified and at the same time diesel trains running at 200 kph?
this day and age, electrification is really cheap (200k eur / km approx), and it has huge advantages


----------



## gramercy

this reminds me, check this out: the Cobehnavn-Berlin ICE inside a ship, alongside a truck 
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=253205&nseq=2


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## milwaukee-københavn

*DSB Stations/Infrastructure*

All rail infrastructure (including stations) in Denmark is actually owned by another state entity called Banedanmark, which was split off from DSB a few years ago http://www.banedanmark.dk. DSB (and now Banedanmark) have put a lot of money and effort into design of stations/passenger material since the 1970's, and all stations are more or less identically furnished. 









Intercity train entering the Storbælt bridge/tunnel /DSB 









Nørreport Station in Copenhagen is the country's busiest /DSB









S-tog at Nørreport. The station is entirely underground /DSB









The main hall at Copenhagen Central Station /DSB









The station at Kastrup Airport in Copenhagen /DSB









The new Flintholm Station on the ring line where two S-tog and the Metro connect /DSB









New digital display for the S-tog. DSB has been replacing the former flip displays and older tv-like digital ones with these across the country /DSB









Local Copenhagen and newer long distance ticket machines /DSB


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## Kuvvaci

wonderful thread... :applause:

I liked the trains also. keep posting new pics please.


----------



## city_thing

Brings back so many memories! 

I'd forgotten all about DSB's mascot. What a weird thing to still have around :lol:


----------



## city_thing

I like this Harry advert - the S-tog's look nice with different colours.

farver power = colour power.


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## Timon91

Beautiful thread! I never knew that they put ICE's on a ferry on their way to Denmark :lol:


----------



## Coccodrillo

^^ mee to. I discovered that only when I found myself on a boat :lol:

I was going to Copenaghen (with a Danish IC3, at the time) but I did'n know of the ferry.


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## milwaukee-københavn

city_thing said:


> I like this Harry advert - the S-tog's look nice with different colours.
> 
> farver power = colour power.


I love the ironic soft music in the background. Harry is a national treasure. You used to be able to get little stuffed ones at the station, too. 

The nicest S-tog were when they were painted by different artists a while ago. They did the same thing with the local buses in the 80's. I remember one that was painted like a cheeta with his mouth open.


----------



## Kuvvaci

what is the top speed of IC4?


----------



## GENIUS LOCI

What impressed me much about Danish trains (and busses) is the huge space they have for bikes ( in Denmark people use to move by bike as in Netherland)


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## milwaukee-københavn

gramercy said:


> here is a map of the network:
> http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/maps/scandinavian-peninsulas-network/scandinavian-peninsulas.gif
> 
> and the danish rolling-stock:
> http://www.railfaneurope.net/list/denmark.html#01
> 
> ---
> 
> what I dont understand, is that denmark being so green (leader in wind energy etc), why is there only 1 main line electrified and at the same time diesel trains running at 200 kph?
> this day and age, electrification is really cheap (200k eur / km approx), and it has huge advantages


Map of Electric lines in Denmark (blue & red):








/Wikipedia

The electrification of all Danish main lines was actually approved in 1979, but with the purchase of the IC3 trains, the Danish government decided that there were few environmental benefits for electification. This January, the government decided to start electrification again- mainly because of problems with the IC4s- but first after the replacement of the entire signal system in 20 years. 

The only section that may happen earlier (in 2018) over the new Femern Bridge project that will connect Denmark (on Lolland) and Germany. The line is also planned to be HSR.


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## milwaukee-københavn

Kuvvaci said:


> what is the top speed of IC4?


200 km/hour.


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## milwaukee-københavn

Kuvvaci said:


> wonderful thread... :applause:
> 
> I liked the trains also. keep posting new pics please.











Denmark's busiest rail line outside Roskilde /Wikipedia









An IC3 in DSB's old paint scheme in Aalborg /Wikipedia









Øresundstog by Adtranz based off the IC3 design. Øresunds trains are actually run by DSBFirst, which is a partnership between DSB and th First Group. They run between Sweden and Copenhagen/Helsingør every 10-20 min /jernbanen.dk









/jernbanen.dk









MR Regional trainset made by Uerginden in 1978 /jernbanen.dk









/jernbanen.dk









MR trainset made by Scandia in Denmark at Århus /jernbanen.dk


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## milwaukee-københavn

*More DSB Photographs*

Østerport Station in Copenhagen:








/Socialdemokratiet









/Wikipedia

Train-ferry across the Storbælt just before the bridge opened








/jernbanefoto.dk









/jernbanefoto.dk









/jernbanefoto.dk









/jernbanefoto.dk









/TV-2


----------



## city_thing

This thread is awesome.

Brings back so many memories.


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## Kuvvaci

Is te railways the dominant transportation in Denmark?


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## milwaukee-københavn

Kuvvaci said:


> Is te railways the dominant transportation in Denmark?


According to the Department for Market Competition, the railways only have about a 6-8% market share in transport in Denmark, while public transport in total has a 25% market share. Cars have about a 75% market share. 

There's a big difference, though, between car usage in Jylland away from major cities and on Sjælland near Copenhagen, where the biggest number of train journeys occur. In Copenhagen, only 1/3 of the inhabitants own a car.


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## milwaukee-københavn

*Copenhagen-Ringsted Project*

Because of bottlenecks in the main line between Copenhagen and Ringsted, the state is currently planning works to increase capacity between the cities. 









/Trafikstyrelsen

There are two options currently being examined:

1. A fifth track between Hvidovre and Høje Taastrup in the Copenhagen Metro Area and a number of other track improvements around Roskilde and Ringsted.

2. A new double-tracked railway between Ny Ellebjerg in central Copenhagen and Ringsted via Køge. It would mainly follow two existing motorways and would involve the building of a new station at Køge. The new railway would maily serve freight and Inter City/ International trains, freeing up space on the existing railways for regional services. 

More info & interactive map:
http://www.trm.dk/sw125276.asp

It's looking like the new railway soultion will be the one to happen because it would have the greatest impact on congestion and allow for new services to be implemented. It would also be able to be a part of the high-speed line to Germany, should it get built.

Railway lines on Sjælland:








/Banedanmark

_The black and red striped line is the main line across Sjælland from Sweden to mainland Denmark. 

The orange lines are the S-tog commuter railway and the white are the local railways. The rest are regional lines._

The line between Ringsted and Rødby Færge is where the new high-speed line to Germany will run if it gets built. The state is currently working on upgrading that line to 180 km/hour.


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## Kuvvaci

milwaukee-københavn said:


> According to the Department for Market Competition, the railways only have about a 6-8% market share in transport in Denmark, while public transport in total has a 25% market share. Cars have about a 75% market share.
> 
> There's a big difference, though, between car usage in Jylland away from major cities and on Sjælland near Copenhagen, where the biggest number of train journeys occur. In Copenhagen, only 1/3 of the inhabitants own a car.


how about the share of the public transportation? Wich one is the dominant? do you have intercity buses?


----------



## hans280

Just out of curiosity, Milwaukee, are you a Dane abroad or an American in Denmark? You almost make me remember an old George MacDonald Fraser novel (the Flashman Series) where a young British officer is sent undercover into Punjab armed only with the password "Wisconsin", to find that... his "Indian" undercover agent is a repatriated Presbyterian from Milwaukee. :lol: 



milwaukee-københavn said:


> The electrification of all Danish main lines was actually approved in 1979, but with the purchase of the IC3 trains, the Danish government decided that there were few environmental benefits for electification. This January, the government decided to start electrification again- mainly because of problems with the IC4s- but first after the replacement of the entire signal system in 20 years.


You use the words "approved" and "agreed" a bit liberally, methinks. It was approved IN PRINCIPLE by parliament in 1979 but not as far as I know passed into a binding law. Later the Rigsrevisonen (the Supreme Auditor) forced the State only to electrify where a social rate of return of at least five (?) per cent (OK, I'm not sure about the number...) could be demonstrated. Reaching this threshold turned out to be very difficult - inter alia because the clinching factor should have been environmental gains but, seeing as the Danes burn coal to produce electricity, electrifying the trains to limit carbon emissions was a bit of a catch-22. 

Recently, parliament has once again "agreed" to electrify the main network. Eventually. Well, we'll see... hno:



milwaukee-københavn said:


> The only section that may happen earlier (in 2018) over the new Femern Bridge project that will connect Denmark (on Lolland) and Germany. The line is also planned to be HSR.


Mmmmmwell, not formally. The HSL from Copenhagen to Ringsted via Koege is still - formally - not decided upon. From Ringsted to Vordingborg there will be an electrified and slightly upgraded line allowing speeds of 160 km/h. (It could, at a low cost, be pushed to 180-200 km/h but I was not aware of any concrete plans - are you?). From Vordingborg to Roedby the plans that are on the table speak of a German-style "Ausbau" of the existing single-track line which would become double and electrified, remain straight as a rod, and be capable of 200 km/h. Here, however, the operating company (Sund og Baelt) has entered a dissent - essentially arguing that if major construction works are needed then one should go for a Real-McCoy 250+ km/h HSL here as well. Of course, no one is in doubt that in the loooooong run what the government hopes for is an HSL Cophenhagen-Koege-Ringsted with a second leg Koege-Vordingborg. We'll see where that ends.


----------



## milwaukee-københavn

hans280 said:


> Just out of curiosity, Milwaukee, are you a Dane abroad or an American in Denmark? You almost make me remember an old George MacDonald Fraser novel (the Flashman Series) where a young British officer is sent undercover into Punjab armed only with the password "Wisconsin", to find that... his "Indian" undercover agent is a repatriated Presbyterian from Milwaukee. :lol:


I'm both American and Danish. Started using Skyscraper City when I lived in America, but have since moved back to Denmark. 




> You use the words "approved" and "agreed" a bit liberally, methinks. It was approved IN PRINCIPLE by parliament in 1979 but not as far as I know passed into a binding law. Later the Rigsrevisonen (the Supreme Auditor) forced the State only to electrify where a social rate of return of at least five (?) per cent (OK, I'm not sure about the number...) could be demonstrated. Reaching this threshold turned out to be very difficult - inter alia because the clinching factor should have been environmental gains but, seeing as the Danes burn coal to produce electricity, electrifying the trains to limit carbon emissions was a bit of a catch-22.
> 
> Recently, parliament has once again "agreed" to electrify the main network. Eventually. Well, we'll see... hno:


According to Folketingets Trafikudvalg, Parliament passed in law nr. 201 on 23rd of May 1979, that DSB's main passenger lines should be electrified with a 25.000 V 50 Hz system. That's why the Helsingør-Copenhagen-Frederecia-Padborg/Sønderborg lines are electrified. Because the IC3 could achieve the majority of the performance characteristics as electric trains, much of the incentive to electrify dissappeared when they were built. Despite this, both the new diesel trains and the electrification project continued simultaneously. The gov't decided to stop the electrification project in Odense in 1989 because it was deemed a bad investment to continue both projects at the same time. It was later finished to Padborg.

http://www.folketinget.dk/Samling/20011/udvbilag/TRU/Almdel_bilag80.htm

DSB report from '78 on electrification:
http://ing.dk/modules/fsArticle/download.php?fileid=89

As far as current plans, they're much more loose. From what the two most recent Transport Ministers have said, electrification plans are almost entirely dependent on how the IC4 project turns out and even then probably wouldn't happen until at least 2020 (when the new signal system comes into use). 




> Mmmmmwell, not formally. The HSL from Copenhagen to Ringsted via Koege is still - formally - not decided upon. From Ringsted to Vordingborg there will be an electrified and slightly upgraded line allowing speeds of 160 km/h. (It could, at a low cost, be pushed to 180-200 km/h but I was not aware of any concrete plans - are you?). From Vordingborg to Roedby the plans that are on the table speak of a German-style "Ausbau" of the existing single-track line which would become double and electrified, remain straight as a rod, and be capable of 200 km/h. Here, however, the operating company (Sund og Baelt) has entered a dissent - essentially arguing that if major construction works are needed then one should go for a Real-McCoy 250+ km/h HSL here as well. Of course, no one is in doubt that in the loooooong run what the government hopes for is an HSL Cophenhagen-Koege-Ringsted with a second leg Koege-Vordingborg. We'll see where that ends.


There's been talk about upgrading it all the way to 180 km/h, but you're right, there are no concrete plans. DSB, however, refers to the improvements at 160-180 km/h on their website, not that that actually means anything. 

http://www.dsb.dk/Om-DSB/Presse/Pressebaggrund/Trangsel-pa-skinnerne/


----------



## hans280

^^ Until very recently I would have said the 180 km/h plans were pure poppycock. I mean, at speeds above 160 km/h they have to upgrade all the signalling equipment at a considerable cost. Who would do that for a gain of measly 20 km/h? But the government's new investment plan seems to foresee an upgrading of all equipment - even on crummy secondary lines - to ETRMS. If that becomes reality then, of course, my objection fades away. 

A question: does anyone know where we stand with the unfortunate IC4 project? I know that AnsaldoBreda was given an ultimatum - deliver all equipment by May 2009 with part of it fully tested and approved, or we tear up the contract - and I followed it on the parliamentary website until December. Thereafter... total silence. My guess is the authorities don't want to pronounce themselves on the topic anymore so as not to prejudice possible future legal procedings with the company. Or....?


----------



## bongo-anders

Here is a visualisation of the new Køge Nord Station that would be build if they build the Copenhagen - Køge - Ringsted Line.


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## bongo-anders

Here are some pictures of the trains owned by the private rail companys,
Some of them are old and out of service but enjoy.


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## K3

We are still waiting for DSB IC4. What about the case, when Ansaldobreda not finish in the time?


----------



## K3

And probably DSB have to make one step back. 
This is the idea to use old, 30 years locomotives, most likely Litra ME....

http://epn.dk/brancher/transport/land/article1644034.ece


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## milwaukee-københavn

AnsaldoBreda plans on being able to give DSB 14 ready to run trainsets in May. If not, DSB will probably cancel the contract (which they've already paid for over half of). The 30 year old locomotives are a temporary solution. It hasn't been publicly announced what DSB will do instead in the long run because of the talks about finishing electrification which have been going on.

It's not necessarily a bad thing, imo, if the contract gets cancelled, as electrification is looking more and more likely and would be a better investment in the long run.


----------



## hoosier

Will the new bridge connecting Germany and Denmark carry trains as well?


----------



## K3

hoosier said:


> Will the new bridge connecting Germany and Denmark carry trains as well?


Yes.


----------



## Wallaroo

gramercy said:


> here is a map of the network:
> http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/maps/scandinavian-peninsulas-network/scandinavian-peninsulas.gif
> 
> and the danish rolling-stock:
> http://www.railfaneurope.net/list/denmark.html#01
> 
> ---
> 
> what I dont understand, is that denmark being so green (leader in wind energy etc), why is there only 1 main line electrified and at the same time diesel trains running at 200 kph?
> this day and age, electrification is really cheap (200k eur / km approx), and it has huge advantages


First of all, the danish diesel trains on the main lines dont run at 200 km/h, but mostly 140 - 160 km/h. A very few places they go up to 180 km/h.

Secondly, DSB claims that it will cost in the area of 1 billion euros to electrify all danish intercity lines, which is why they choose not to do it. So they ordered 83 bullshit diesel trainsets from AnsaldoBreda back in 2000, and the list of faults in those trains would fill a phonebook - which is also why they are now 6 years delayed! I think only a handfull of them have been delivered so far. hno:

I started a thread some time ago called: _Denmark: Worst railway system in Western Europe_, and I did it for a very god reason!!! :bash:


----------



## hans280

Wallaroo said:


> Secondly, DSB claims that it will cost in the area of 1 billion euros to electrify all danish intercity lines, which is why they choose not to do it.


I agree that the underinvestment in Danish railway infrastructure these last 30+ years is shameful. Many Danes who have never been abroad (on more than a week's vacation, that is...) seem to think that we have a well functioning railway system. They are wrong. We have pretty much the same railway system as we did one generation ago. In the meantime other countries have upgraded theirs. hno:

That said, I think you over simplify the problem with the electrification. Had it been only about investing 8 billion kroner in overhead wiring then it would have been done long ago. The problem is, the main lines around Lillebaelt and in eastern Jutland are from the 19th century and, as was customary in those days, "follow the landscape". In other words, they meander like serpentines. Hence, electrifying them alone doesn't give much additional speed. (And, in a country producing electricity by burning coal, isn't particularly environmental either.) 

The whole electrification issue has therefore been held up for 15-20 years by a non-decision about whether to straighten out some of the railway stretches by investment in sub-sections of, particularly, the Eastern Jutland Line. The Danish parliament agreed to such a scheme in the nineties - then binned it because they'd rather spend the money on rolling stock. (Those wretched IC4 trains...) I seem to remember that one element of the old plan was a railway bridge across Vejle Fjord so that the direct trains Odense-Aarhus wouldn't have to zigzag first west, then east. Eminently sensible, if you ask me. No doubt that's why the politicians decided not to do it. :nuts:


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## milwaukee-københavn

It's easier said than done. If you look at the plans for the straightening of the main line in South-central Jylland, they all involve bypassing major cities of Fredericia an Vejle, almost 100 000 people in a country of 5 million. When you consider that railways in DK function largely for commuters, it doesn't make sense to build them like they're used differently. 

I've travelled by train all over Europe, and I think we have a relatively well-functioning system. There are definently problems (capacity, some speed issues, outdated trains), but the system is not in the sort of shape where it requires the same major changes that have been made in France or Germany. A TGV or ICE doesn't make sense in DK. Traffic density is much too high to be able to achieve ICE speeds on the existing network, and there is't the room or political/environmental climate to build new TGV-esque corridors. 

Worst train system in Western Europe? Look at France, where the majority of local service across the entire country has been discontinued to fund the TGVs. Or Spain, which until recently lacked any sort of decent national network. Or Britian, which has major safety issues and an on time record that makes DSB look wonderful. We have safe, frequent service to almost every corner of the country that (at least on the main lines) runs relatively fast, considering the amount of service provided.


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## makita09

AlexNL said:


> I have no idea. All I know is that trains which come from Alstom's Italian plants (which was Fiat) have their difficulties as well, just look at the ETR610 Pendolino's that have suffered major delays as well. Not as bad as the average delay at AnsaldoBreda, but still pretty bad.
> 
> Why they suck at it? I don't know. It's a fact of life, I guess. Just like other countries suck at other things.


If you ask me its purely organisation. The Italians have no lack of capability to do anything, but they seem to have a knack for poor management, and if my Italian relatives are right its due to all sorts of silly external issues that British, French and German companies don't have to deal with - issues like the Italian government and administrations.


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## Alseimik

bongo-anders said:


> But to be fair the one half of the Company Ansaldo did a good job with Copenhagens driverless metro, even though they had some starting problems with the sensors on the tracks that stopped the trains when not supposed to.


Yeah, but that is a WHOLE other company, the only thing shared between them is the name as far as I know! Ansaldo has done a lot of good metro works as far as I know.



> If you ask me its purely organisation. The Italians have no lack of capability to do anything, but they seem to have a knack for poor management, and if my Italian relatives are right its due to all sorts of silly external issues that British, French and German companies don't have to deal with - issues like the Italian government and administrations.


Indeed, i don't believe they lack capability at all, but i don't believe that AnsaldoBreda has more issues enough to make that kind of excuse, as far as I understand, its pretty much every train order they have had, that has been like this.


----------



## Coccodrillo

As far I know Copenaghen metro vehicles were built by AnsaldoBreda, and the control system by AndaldoSTS, both part of the Finmeccanica company (which also owns Ansaldo Energia, AgustaWestland and others; Finmeccanica itself is for one third owned by the Italian government).


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## AlexNL

It's funny that you mention Ansaldo STS, they appearantly do a great job. They're the supplier for a lot of ERTMS related equipment, even for the TGV and ICE trains. Appearantly, Ansaldo STS can do a great job while AnsaldoBreda just performs poorly.


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## Gadiri

Alseimik said:


> I don't know, but it kinda seems like they don't it seriously, at all. Great designers, but even before i heard of AnsaldoBreda, *I've always been told never to let Italians build anything, let the Germans do it instead *


Yes you're right, instead of bought Ansaldo Breda IC4, they should bought the fantastic ICE TD. :lol:



> Starting end of 2007, the class 605 is used in regular service on the *Berlin-Hamburg-Copenhagen route*, *as a replacement for the Danish IC3 trains in Hamburg-Copenhagen service (these should long ago been replaced by the IC4 trains, but due to technical problems those have not been commissioned yet by DSB*. The ten class 605 used in these services were equipped with the Danish ATC safety system. From *2008, the Denmark-compatible 605 are also used for Berlin-Hamburg-Århus services (previously, IC3 was used on the Flensburg-Århus route, and regional trains on the Hamburg-Flensburg relation). *From mid-2009, three more ICE-TD units are to be used in Germany-Denmark service, allowing DSB to free up more IC3 trains for domestic service.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICE_TD

In Danemark : 






*Copenhagen station *


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## Alseimik

Gadiri said:


> Yes you're right, instead of bought Ansaldo Breda IC4, they should bought the fantastic ICE TD. :lol:


Maybe, but we don't have the rail for it, the maximum speed on the main line (between Aarhus and Copenhagen) is 180 km/h, some places 160 km/h, which would be a waste with the ICE TD, and no one (with the power) in Denmark, is doing anything about HSR plans, there's some talking, then some hobby organisation who made some plans, a little talk, then, let's build high ways to the middle of no where, where the roads are barely used already... Blah, they don't even fix the high way problems in Copenhagen properly. :bash:

But the line where ICE TD is already in service, is going to have a 200 km/h line from Copenhagen to the traffic bottleneck of Ringsted (the rail is made for 250 km/h, signal system would need to be upgraded for that) and from Ringsted and south to the new femern tunnel between Denmark and Germany, it seems likely that they are upgrading the existing rail to 200 km/h, as half of the line needs upgrade to double track, and they will electrify the whole thing.


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## AlexNL

Back in May 2009, DSB came to an agreement with AnsaldoBreda after they failed to meet an ultimatum. AnsaldoBreda would repay 45% of the price of the trainsets, and would deliver all of them, and DSB would do the 'final touches' themselves.

The last couple of days, some news articles have appeared in Danish newspapers and magazines about DSB's order of IC4 with AnsaldoBreda. Appearantly, there are a lot of issues with the trains and quality is sub-par. It is even as sub-par that DSB can't guarantee a reliable timetable based on IC4 trains.

Of the 83 trainsets that have been ordered, so far 43 have been delivered to Denmark. 18 of these have the proper admissions to be used for passenger service. However, DSB dares to only use 4 to 9 of these sets for passenger service. A new ultimatum might be presented to AnsaldoBreda.

The point of no return has passed for DSB, because half of the trains has already been built and is in Denmark already. Furthermore, a new public tendering procedure, along with the time needed to build new trains, getting them admitted etc. is a process which takes years. So DSB will have to keep up with AnsaldoBreda, _for better or worse_. 

DSB will inspect each of the trainsets in Italy and if they're not up to DSB's quality standards, the train will not be shipped to Denmark and will not be paid for until everything is in order.

Sources (machine translated, original in Danish):
- DSB requires significant improvements in the IC4 trains
- DSB will not drop AnsaldoBreda
- DSB's trains be intractable


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## hans280

Alseimik said:


> But the line where ICE TD is already in service, is going to have a 200 km/h line from Copenhagen to the traffic bottleneck of Ringsted (the rail is made for 250 km/h, signal system would need to be upgraded for that)


I think the Danish authorities are playing a tactical game there. We've seen it in France as well, on the LGV Est Europpeen, which is laid out for 350 km/h but currently allowed for 320 km/h. The reason is... that SNCF does not HAVE trains that can drive faster than 320 km/h whereas their German competitors do. I suspect a similar game. With the tracks across Europe opening up to third party access the Danes are in no hurry to open Copenhagen-Ringsted to speeds that Swedish and German trains can manage, but Danish trains currently cannot.


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## AlexNL

hans280 said:


> The reason is... that SNCF does not HAVE trains that can drive faster than 320 km/h whereas their German competitors do.


Nope, the Germans don't have trains capable for that either. The SNCF TGV's have a maximum speed of 320 km/h. The German ICE-3 trains don't go faster... they have an allowed maximum speed of 320 km/h. The new Velaro D trains will run at top 320 km/h as well. The trains you're thinking of are the Velaro E and CN which run at 350 km/h in Spain and China. Those haven't been ordered by Deutsche Bahn.

If SNCF wants to go 350 km/h they have to order either Velaro (unlikely, as its German) or AGV (which is more likely as its French).


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## Gadiri

AlexNL said:


> Nope, the Germans don't have trains capable for that either. The SNCF TGV's have a maximum speed of 320 km/h. The German ICE-3 trains don't go faster... they have an allowed maximum speed of 320 km/h. The new Velaro D trains will run at top 320 km/h as well. The trains you're thinking of are the Velaro E and CN which run at 350 km/h in Spain and China. Those haven't been ordered by Deutsche Bahn.
> 
> *If SNCF wants to go 350 km/h they have to order either Velaro* (unlikely, as its German) *or AGV *(which is more likely as its French).


CAF Oaris also goes to 350 km/h..


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## hans280

AlexNL said:


> Nope, the Germans don't have trains capable for that either. The SNCF TGV's have a maximum speed of 320 km/h. The German ICE-3 trains don't go faster... they have an allowed maximum speed of 320 km/h. The new Velaro D trains will run at top 320 km/h as well. The trains you're thinking of are the Velaro E and CN which run at 350 km/h in Spain and China. Those haven't been ordered by Deutsche Bahn.


You're not quoting me correctly. I know that Velaro, in the ICE3 configuration, is not allowed for 350 km/h. It is, however, approved for 330 km/h - on the line between Wolfsburg and Rathenow.


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## AlexNL

More news on the plagued IC4 trains. According to DSB's internal operating data, during the Easter week there were daily breakdown of the few IC4 trains that DSB planned to operate in service. The reliability of the IC4 is estimated to be one third of that of an IC3 train (source).

Furthermore, DSB has decided to temporarily stop accepting new IC4 trains into the country, and these will not be paid. The reason for this is the rapidly detoriating quality of the trains. In addition to the loss of income for AnsaldoBreda, they will have to pay DSB a penalty of DKR 1 million (€ 135.000,-) for each month that the IC4 trains are not of the desired quality (source). According to the article, an IC4 train needs service every other 2000 km. The average for a DSB train is 20,000 km.

Someone, please put this miserable excuse for a rolling stock manufacturer out of its misery. hno:


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## Suburbanist

^^ Anslado-Breda is not a bad manufacturer, they are just having problems following the merge between the American and the Italian operations. They will get over and, hopefully, deliver all the Danish rolling stock.

The problem is that I read somewhere Ansaldo-Breda is having problems securing new contracts, which could put them on financial difficulties.


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## AlexNL

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ Anslado-Breda is not a bad manufacturer, they are just having problems following the merge between the American and the Italian operations. They will get over and, hopefully, deliver all the Danish rolling stock.
> 
> The problem is that I read somewhere Ansaldo-Breda is having problems securing new contracts, which could put them on financial difficulties.


I would love to agree with you, but unfortunately I can't. AnsaldoBreda has been having problems for at least a decade, the only thing which they seem to do well is driverless metro systems. There are a lot of complaints about them, coming from the Danish, the Dutch, and several cities in the USA. Just look at Los Angeles, AnsaldoBreda even promised them to move their headquarters there, just in the hope to secure a new contract!

AnsaldoBreda may have difficulties securing new contracts, but in my opinion they get what they deserve. You have to deliver to remain in business, otherwise the competition will take the lead. AB apparently can't deliver, just look at how long the IC4 debacle has been going on, and the V250.


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## Spikespiegel

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ Anslado-Breda is not a bad manufacturer, they are just having problems following the merge between the American and the Italian operations. They will get over and, hopefully, deliver all the Danish rolling stock.
> 
> The problem is that I read somewhere Ansaldo-Breda is having problems securing new contracts, which could put them on financial difficulties.


No, you're wrong... Ansaldo-Breda IS a bad manufacturer.

The finest example of that is the electrical wiring.
Order a train from the Germans, and you get a complete charts of where every single electrical wire is. Open up to the wires, and they are all placed for easy access, in a neatly fashion.

Ansaldo-Breda on the other hand throws in the wiring whereever it will fit. Not two trains have the same wiring... What is worse is that they do not use the official international colours for the different wirings. They are not even consistant. Where they use one colour wire one place, they may use another colour another to serve the same purpose. I've been told that sometimes the same wire may have as many as five different colours before it reaches its destination.


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## Alseimik

^^ as all above, i agree, AnsaldoBreda IS bad! i know we too often say a company is bad, just as a way of speaking. But after a decay, an ultimatum, and a agreement of that DSB should put it together the finishing parts, and the shit STILL don't work, comfort is HORRIBLE, too noisy, bad seats (but the window and the "leg-space" is good, as the only thing). There's simply TOO many things that prove, that AnsaldoBreda has done a horrible work with the IC4 order. That's even without mentioning all the other fucked up projects they got, like the Dutch. hno:x7

There's is simply nothing good to say about them, i would say designs where okay, but then again, Dutch. The metro, however, is designed and made from an entire different part of the company, as I heard, only thing the departments share, is the head director.


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## AlexNL

DSB has asked their legal staff to investigate how they can get out of the IC4 contract.


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## enarque illumine

AlexNL said:


> DSB has asked their legal staff to investigate how they can get out of the IC4 contract.


pffff... ansaldebreda c'est nul!


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## hans280

enarque illumine said:


> pffff... ansaldebreda c'est nul!


The sad tale of AnsaldoBreda (consecutive mishaps in Denmark, the Netherlands and California) IMHO illustrate the risk of doing business with a company that has a tarnished reputation. If a company like Bombardier, Siemens or Alstom got halfway into a debacle like IC4 or Fyra they would no doubt throw massive corporate resources at the problem and solve it - even at a heavy loss. This they would do because a continuation of the delivery trouble would cost them dearly in terms of demotion of their reputation and brand value. However...

...when a company is already considered as "cheap but unreliable" then what reputation is there to lose? I learned that lesson first hand by discussing the IC4 debacle with an Italian colleague in Paris. He was positively delighted at the news that AnsaldoBreda was screwing the Danish taxpayers over, because "you see, Hans, I'm a shareholder in Finmeccanica". Well... in his eyes, apparently, trying to establish a reputation for reliability is a sign of stupidity? 

That said, I think the Danish authorities ARE being stupid. As many of you know, AnsaldoBreda was awarded the contracts for the second metro line in Copenhagen. The authorities were so incredibly risk-averse that they insisted that the private sector contractor underwrites all risks. This made reputable companies walk out, on the principle that "we're not insurers". And... the Danes were once more saddled with AnsaldoBreda who was willing to sign the Danish conditions because, one may suspect, they had no intention of honoring the contractual conditions anyway. hno:


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## Suburbanist

^^ That is a normal process, up to a point: very high-risk contract will usually skim out the most established players on a market, the ones who have not much more to gain if the project is successful but that has much to lose otherwise. Being a company with a string of previous problems, the gamble might pay off if that metro goes ok, but if it went down completely, with 10-year delay or so, future prospects won't be affected much more.

You have also to consider that Siemens, Alstom and CAF are full of orders as the market is high. It is usually easier to score more lucrative contracts with higher margins in Asia and Latin America than in Europe, ans standards are also lower over there.


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## Never give up

Today DSB has recieved permission from the nation railway authority, to resume passenger carrying services with the IC4 train sets.
The class was grounded in November because of 2 SPAD (Signals passed at danger) incidents.
Numerous tests have been carried out during the last 6-7 months, with experts from many companies and institutes participating and the conclusion is that the brakes work satisfactorily??
Trains though must not run without their electro magnetic brakes active. (They were not active on the 2 SPAD sets) 

DSB has been testing the trains without passengers since February, and at the same time using the involuntary break, to upgrade 37 sets, which are now ready for service.
Initially they will put into service on the long regional service from Esbjerg to Aarhus now serviced by elderly MR sets, which can be taken out service.
Later they will reappear in the express Copenhagen – Aarhus – Aalborg Lyntog services.

The delivery of sets, both IC4 and IC2, from AnsaloBreda, agreed in the “Ultimatum agreement” has slipped seriously, with over 15 sets behind schedule. The consequence of this is, at present, unknown. 

It seems unlikely that the IC4 trains will ever fulfill there intended role in front line service and will face early retirment, as both DSB and politicians, throughly tired of the whole IC4 affair, now seem to be set on electrifying the remainder of the main line net in Jutland (Kolding to Esbjerg by 2015) as well as the remaining regional lines on Zealland, out of Copenhagen. The timescale for these lines are tied up with the signalling programme and the completion of the Copenhagen – Ringsted – Femern link projects.

DSB is also making inquiries about the purchase of a well tried design of electric train sets and it has been decided to aquire / lease 2 –3 sets from different manufacturers for a through trial period (tecnical and passenger reaction) before commiting themselves. Initially it is thought that a order for 15 sets, covering services from Copenhagen to the whole of Southern Jutland, including Flensborg in Germany will be placed. An option for additional trains will almost certainly be included. A multi system type is being considered to faciltate running in Germany (Hamborg / Flensborg, Kiel) and Sweden.

Grounded IC4s languishing in Aarhus:


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## manrush

^^
Perhaps Hitachi will finally fix those IC4s up when they take control of AnsaldoBreda.


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## AlexNL

That all depends on the terms of the contract and on how much Hitachi is willing to invest in customer relations, and that depends on the deal being closed. It's just a rumour.


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## Suburbanist

They should convert the remaining IC4 orders from AnsaldoBreda into V250 orders if they plan on electrification...


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## Never give up

Suburbanist said:


> They should convert the remaining IC4 orders from AnsaldoBreda into V250 orders if they plan on electrification...


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Silly_Walks

Suburbanist said:


> They should convert the remaining IC4 orders from AnsaldoBreda into V250 orders if they plan on electrification...


Hahahahaha I can never make up my mind whether you are simply a troll, an ingenious joker, or a complete idiot :lol:


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## Sopomon

Suburbanist said:


> They should convert the remaining IC4 orders from AnsaldoBreda into V250 orders if they plan on electrification...


Mother of god...


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## Momo1435

I have a feeling that just like the Norwegian railways the DSB will exclude AnsaldoBreda from any future tenders for new trains.

I wonder what the specifications will be for the new EMU's, then we can start to speculate on which manufacturer and type they should go for.


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## Suburbanist

Momo1435 said:


> I have a feeling that just like the Norwegian railways the DSB will exclude AnsaldoBreda from any future tenders for new trains.


As Denmark is part of EU and Norway is not, I keep wondering whether the DAnish can bluntly exclude a supplier based on European fair competition on public tendering directives.


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## K_

Suburbanist said:


> As Denmark is part of EU and Norway is not, I keep wondering whether the DAnish can bluntly exclude a supplier based on European fair competition on public tendering directives.


They can. And the rules are set by the WTO not the EU btw. Which is why Norway and Switzerland follow them too. (And why non European manufacturers sometimes hand in bids too...)

The rules do permit a two step process, where in the first step the supplier must meet certain objective criteria. Only the suppliers that survive this first step get invited for the second phase, which is probably what is meant with the exclusion of Ansaldo Breda.


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## 3737

Is this one allready back in Denmark ?


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## Never give up

Work progresses on the approaches to Copenhagen C for the new high speed tracks from (Vigerslev) Køge - Ringsted and the diverted inbound line from the airport and Sweden (Flyunder)

In the sidings on the right, one of the 6 elderly EA locomotive appears to be approaching a double decker set, maybe for a test run? It has been decided that these locomotives will be refurbished and used with the double deckers on region services out of Copenhagen releasing IC3 sets for use on busy intercity routes such as Copenhagen - Aarhus.











No 3737. The Libyan set belongs to the very earliest build and will almost have to be rebuilt before being accepted by DSB.
I don´t think DSB ever expects to see this set in action in Denmark.


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## Never give up

Suburbanist said:


> They should convert the remaining IC4 orders from AnsaldoBreda into V250 orders if they plan on electrification...


Hmmmm! :nuts:


http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/rolling-stock/dutch-v250-emus-finally-approved.html?channel=542


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## dj4life

Never give up, what exactly did you mean by writing "high speed tracks"? Is the railway infrastructure being upgraded to a HSR standard in Denmark?


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## Suburbanist

Never give up said:


> Hmmmm! :nuts:
> 
> 
> http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/rolling-stock/dutch-v250-emus-finally-approved.html?channel=542


As the article you quoted says, after a couple years' delay they have been commissioned and will enter service next September


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## dj4life

I guess, these videos fit in this thread, too. The one can see a journey with the regional Öresundtåg from Malmö (Sweden) to Helsingør (Denmark) filmed from the driver's persepctive:











It is worth mentioning that the trains travel at the speed of 200 km/h in Sweden, pass the Öresund bridge at 160 km/h and travel in Denmark at 180 km/h.


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## Momo1435

dj4life said:


> Never give up, what exactly did you mean by writing "high speed tracks"? Is the railway infrastructure being upgraded to a HSR standard in Denmark?


See the previous page of this thread.


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## Wallaroo

Never give up said:


> Yes, unfortunately. hno: First they could not run then the could not couple and now they can not brake!


Maybe we can get some donkeys to pull them for us. :lol:


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## bongo-anders

Now the line between Vigerslev Fjern and København H (central station) is ready for regular service, The newspaper Berlingske Tidende was on a testrun. 

Note that they run on the wrong side all the way in. 

http://www.b.dk/nationalt/snigpremiere-paa-ny-jernbane-til-koebenhavn


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## bongo-anders

The railway bridge between Jutland and Denmarks northern tip Vendsyssel has been closed since spring after a containership rammed into it.

But it should have been finished by now but a mistake by the polish company making the new bridge deck means that Vendsyssel would have been without trains until february.

But luckily there is a old train ferry transporting lorries between Gothenburg in Sweden and Frederikshavn and so they decided to sail the trains back to Vendsyssel (the same way they got them out)


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## bongo-anders

The last few days have been exciting for us railway entusiast in Denmark.


*Connections to the Fehmarnt Belt fixed link*


First came the news that the government has found the money for a replacement for the old Storestrøms Bridge between Sjælland/Zealand and Falster and that the railway line between Ringsted and the Fehmarn Belt fixed link is upgraded to 200 km/h.


*Possible speed upgrades* 

Then came a screening report about possible speed upgrades to the branch lines when they get the ERTMS 2 treatment in 5-9 years time.


The railway lines where the internal rates (socio economics) are 100% sure

Aalborg - Frederikshavn
Speed limit raised from 120 to 160 km/h
Reduced travel time - 16 minutes
Internal rate of Return - 20%
Price - 82 million

Struer - Thisted
Speed limit raised from 75 to 110 km/h
Reduced travel time - 23 minutes 
Internal rate of return - 10%
Price - 93 million

Skanderborg - Skjern
Speed limit raised from 100 and 120 to 140 km/h between Skanderborg and Herning
100 to 120 km/h between Herning and Skjern
Reduced travel time - 20 minutes
Internal rate of return - 12%
Price - 177 million 

Bramming - Tønder
Speed limit raised from 100 to 120 km/h 
Reduced travel time - 14 minutes
Internal rate of return - 13 %
Price - 83 million

Holbæk - Kalundborg
Speed limit raised from 120 to 160 km/h
Reduced travel time - 14 minutes
Internat rate of return - 20%
Price - 86 million

Køge Nord - Næstved 
Speed limit raised from 120 to 160 km/h
Reduced travel time - 10 minutes
Internal rate of return - 30%
Price - 46 million

Østerport - Helsingør
Speed limit raised from 100 to 120 km/h between Østerport and Klampenborg
120 to 160 km/h between Klampenborg and Nivå
120 to 140 km/h between Nivå and Helsingør
Reduced travel time - 6 minutes
Internal rate of return - 27%
Price - 112 million


The railway lines with a more uncertain internal rate and needs more calculation.

Langå - Struer
Speed limit raised from 120 to 160 km/h
Reduced travel time - 14 minutes
Internal rate of return - 6%
Price - 118 million

Vejle - Struer 
Speed limit raised from 110 to 120 km/h between Vejle and Give
120 to 160 km/h between Give and Struer
Reduced travel time - 24 minutes
Internal rate of return - 5% 
Price - 297 million

Esbjerg - Struer
Speed limit raised from 120 to 140 km/h between Esbjerg and Varde
100 to 140 km/h between Varde and Holstebro
120 to 160 km/h betwen Holstebro and Struer (part of Vejle - Struer)
Reduced travel time - 35 minutes
Internal rate of return - 13%
Price - 109 million


The railway lines with a negative internal rate, 5% and under is regarded as negative.

Tinglev - Sønderborg
Speed limit raised from 100 to 120 km/h
Reduced travel time - 1 minute
Internal rate of return - 4%
Price - 15 million

Odense - Svendborg
Speed limit raised from 120 to 150 km/h between Odense and Ringe
Nothing done between Ringe and Svendborg
Reduced travel time - 3 1/2 minutes
Internal rate of return - 0%
Price - 72 million


http://www.ft.dk/samling/20121/almde...72/1220036.pdf





And then the big news from today, they steal 27,5 billion DKK from the rich oil and gas companies in the North sea and gives them to the poor train commuters. :lol:

Togfund DK (lousy name) worth 27,5 billion DKK.

*Electricification of all main lines.*

Fredericia - Århus in 2020
Kalundborg - Roskilde in 2022
Aarhus - Frederikshavn and Vejle - Struer in 2025.

Køge Nord - Næstved and Ringsted - Fehmarn Belt fixed link is already decided and are ready from 2019.
Lunderskov - Esbjerg are ready in 2015. 


*Timeplanen*

Train travel of only 1 hour between the largest danish cities so Copenhagen - Odense takes 1 hour, Odense - Aarhus takes 1 hour and Aarhus - Aalborg also one hour.


New railway line on Vestfyen/West Funen from Odense to Middelfart, probably between 200 and 250 km/h.

New railway bridge over Vejle fjord, its between Fredericia and Horsens.

New line between Aarhus and Hovedgård just north of Horsens, probably between 200 and 250 km/h.

Upgraded railway line between Hovedgård and Vejle fjord, probably also from 180 to 200 km/h


Already approved projects that are part of this project.


Upgrades between Aalborg and Hobro from 120 to 160 km/h, but sadly not 200 km/h because it was to expensive
Upgrades from Ringsted to Odense from 180 to 200 km/h
New Railway line between Copenhagen and Ringsted at 250 km/h


http://www.trm.dk/da/publikationer/2013/togfonden+dk+-+fremtidens+jernbane/


----------



## Never give up

The Danish government today has announced a massive 3,7 billion Euro plan for the Danish railway infrastructure.

The plan will implement the ambitious “One hour plan” linking the 5 largest cities in the country and consists of three new sections of new double track railway on Funen and in Jutland and an expansion of electrification to cover all the main lines in the country.

The plan for a one hour journey from Copenhagen to Odense is already under construction in the form of a new line between Copenhagen and Ringsted. This will followed up by an upgrading of the line from Ringsted to Odense via the Great Belt Link.

The first part of the plan is new construction.

The section from Odense to Aarhus is the most difficult part to achieve in one hour, as the line first meanders through the hills of western Funen and loops into 2 towns at the bottom of inlets, Vejle and Randers and inland to Skanderborg in Jutland. The new plan consists of a new direct line from Odense to Middelfart on western Funen, a by-pass for Vejle in the form of a new bridge over the mouth of Vejle Fjord, and a new direct line starting at Hovedgård, by-passing Skanderborg to the east, and rejoining the present line in the southern suburbs of Aarhus. Vejle will continue to be served by Inter City services on the diagonal line northwards towards Brande, Herning, Holstebro and Struer, as well as regional services on the present main line between Aarhus and Esbjerg.

The third section of the One hour plan from Aarhus to Aalborg can be covered in one hour, by a combination of upgrading, new signaling and electrification.

The new section of line on western Funen, will now allow a journey time of one hour between Odense and Esbjerg. Esbjerg was not part of the original One hour proposal. The Kolding - Esbjerg section of this line is currently being electrified.
The estimated cost of these plans is 2,52 billion Euro and are tentatively scheduled for completion in 2022.

The other part of the plan is comprehensive electrification.

The section between Copenhagen and Odense is already electrified and the new line to Ringsted will be electrified when opened in 2018. Electrification south of Ringsted is part of the Femern Link project and will be completed by 2021.

The section of the Odense to Aarhus line is already electrified to Fredericia and this will be extended to Aarhus by 2020, coordinated with the new signaling project.

The line from Aarhus to Aalborg will be electrified shortly afterwards, culminating with the Aalborg to Frederikshavn section, which is outside the One hour plan, by 2025.

The single track diagonal line in Jutland from Vejle to Struer via Herning and Holstebro is also to be electrified by 2025. This line did not figure too well in the recent rentability studies conducted by the National Rail Authority, but has been included in the plans.
A busy suburban commuter line west of Copenhagen from Roskilde to Holbæk, which is at present being double tracked and it’s continuation by a single track line to Kalundborg will also be electrified, removing the last diesel run line on the island of Sjælland. The estimated cost of the electrification is 1,16 billion Euro.

New electric material will be required for these newly electrified lines and, hopefully wiser by experience with the IC4 scandal, 2-3 train sets of a well proven material from different manufacturers, possibly double deck, will be test run in passenger carrying services to test their reliability, economy and popularity with the passengers before a choice is made. It is possible that both a regional and an Intercity version of the same train could be considered. The future of the IC4 train sets now appears very uncertain as there will be no suitable services left for them to run, after this electrification programme is complete in 2025.

It has now been decided to replace the old single track Storstrøms bridge on the line towards the proposed Femern link to Germany. This bridge was closed last year for over a month, when cracks in the construction were discovered and a thorough examination has revealed that an expensive repair of the bridge, built by Dorman Long in 1936, will be required if it is to carry the heavy traffic expected when the link to Germany opens in 2021. As line across the bridge is single track and has a 100 km/h speed restriction, it will also constitute a bottleneck on this busy main line linking Scandinavia to Europe. A new more direct double track bridge designed for 200 km/h will be built to the west of the existing bridge, which will then demolished.


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## Sunfuns

Thanks for the update. Sounds very impressive! This thread started some years ago with discussion about Denmark possibly having the worst railway system in Western Europe. I don't think it's true now and certainly won't be then all these improvements are realized.

Regarding the plan for 1 h travel times between stations on Copenhagen-Aalborg line, what are the current best times on the line?


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## kalaha

Today, the fastest services between Copenhagen and Aalborg is 4 hr 21 min.


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## Never give up

Sunfuns said:


> Thanks for the update. Sounds very impressive! This thread started some years ago with discussion about Denmark possibly having the worst railway system in Western Europe. I don't think it's true now and certainly won't be then all these improvements are realized.
> 
> Regarding the plan for 1 h travel times between stations on Copenhagen-Aalborg line, what are the current best times on the line?


Approx. times with an ordinary limited stop express train:

Copenhagen C - Odense: 1 hour 15 min.
Odense - Aarhus : 1 hour 33 min.
Aarhus - Aalborg: 1 hour 21 min.
Odense - Esbjerg: 1 hour 23 min.

These times are exclusive station dwelling times, usually 2-4 min., more in Aarhus as trains have reverse and join up or uncouple sections.
There are a few very limited stop trains between Copenhagen and Aarhus with times of 2 hours 40 min.


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## bongo-anders

It just hit me that this is a goodbye to the Italian scam also know as IC4, maybe Arriva can take care of them on their non electrical railways in central, south western and western Jutland but I think that they will rather keep their Coradia Lint instead :lol:

They will however still be the backbone in the Danish intercity traffic together with IC3 (mostly) until at least 2020 when Aarhus is coupled on the electrical railway system.

When all the lines are under wire in 2025 then our beloved IC3 has seen almost 40 years of service and IC4 around 20 years (and 10 of them on test) before being withdrawn.


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## Suburbanist

^^ C'mon IC4 condition has improved a lot since early hiccups prevented its normal operation


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## NordikNerd

I have travelled the Copenhagen-Flensburg IC train last summer. It was very slow and stopped at all small stations like Vojens, Rödekro, Tinglev. This international train felt more like a local commuter train. I think Roskilde, Odense and Kolding would be enough stops.


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## Silly_Walks

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ C'mon IC4 condition has improved a lot since early hiccups prevented its normal operation


The resident AnsaldoBreda-troll strikes again! :lol:


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## bongo-anders

So why did one break down at Horsens station yesterday, my only concern is if they can sell the train to some third world country without electricification or if they have to scrap it.


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## chornedsnorkack

As of 2021, what shall be the trip times Copenhagen-Hamburg via Flensburg and Fehmarn respectively?


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## Coccodrillo

Are the IC4 already approved for operation in multiple? If not, would it be possible to couple them permanently as 4+4 car trains to avoid some electrical/informatics problems?

(I don't mean removing one cab per set replacing it with a cross passage, but coupling two sets until they will be scrapped)


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## K_

NordikNerd said:


> I have travelled the Copenhagen-Flensburg IC train last summer. It was very slow and stopped at all small stations like Vojens, Rödekro, Tinglev. This international train felt more like a local commuter train. I think Roskilde, Odense and Kolding would be enough stops.


This "one hour plan" would make running trains with less stops more practical. It would make the implementation of a very efficient and hierarchical timetable possible, with hubs at the main cities. If local and IC trains are welll coordinated it is possible to reduce the number of IC stops.


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## K_

bongo-anders said:


> So why did one break down at Horsens station yesterday, my only concern is if they can sell the train to some third world country without electricification or if they have to scrap it.


They can sell it to Lybia. One is already there....
OTOH, Italy, and italian products are probably not that popular there right now.


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## bastholm

*Still behind*



Sunfuns said:


> Thanks for the update. Sounds very impressive! This thread started some years ago with discussion about Denmark possibly having the worst railway system in Western Europe. I don't think it's true now and certainly won't be then all these improvements are realized.


he situation a few years was this, for about 100 years there has been very little investments in the Danish railways. The rails, the paths, the signal systems were the same as always. Add to this 30 years with basically no maintenance. Therefore a few years the Danish railways were very bad shape, and network actually collapsed with severe speed restrictions on large part of the main network. 

This made the politicians wake up. First major investments for overdue maintenance. This has been going on for a few years now, and are still going on. Second, a much needed strategy for the antiquated signal systems was made, a full change of all signals. A decision on a new high speed track from Copenhagen to Ringsted was decided after 15 years of discussion. A decision to get a tunnel to Germany was decided. Now major update to get the 'hour' model as well as electrification. 

Despite all these resent investments, in 2025 the Danish rail road system will be similar to the railway system in Germany in 1980 or in Sweden in the 1990.


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## bongo-anders

What do you base that claims on, Denmark will never get any 300 km/h if its that your meaning.

A few 250 km/h lines and the rest of the mainline at 200 km/h hour and 160 km/h north of Hobro looks very good to me.

And name one country that has plans of use ERTMS level 2 signals on all lines and not just high speed lines, I think that Norway are working on it but else I can't find others.


If we took a trip from Denmarks 2 largest cities in the near future it looks like this.

Copenhagen - Ringsted 250 km/h
Ringsted - Odense 200 km/h
Odense - Middelfart 250 km/h
Middelfart - Hovedgård 200+ km/h (including a bypass of Vejle)
Hovedgård - Aarhus 250 km/h

That is way better than Sweden In 1990.


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## Otazabi

Denmark's railways can be much better, I don't know why the reason the railway lines are almost non-electrified, apart from the S-Tog in Copenhagen.


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## NordikNerd

chornedsnorkack said:


> As of 2021, what shall be the trip times Copenhagen-Hamburg via Flensburg and Fehmarn respectively?


I'm also think about that. With the Fehmarn connection will the nighttrains from Copenhagen to Amsterdam/Basel/Prague run through Puttgarden instead of Flensburg? What about the freight trains to Continental Europe will they run through Puttgarden, can the old Storström bridge handle that ?


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## Sunfuns

bastholm said:


> Despite all these resent investments, in 2025 the Danish rail road system will be similar to the railway system in Germany in 1980 or in Sweden in the 1990.


What exactly is it that would still be so much better in Sweden or Germany after all these upgrades? I'm quite familiar with the German railway system (mostly in the South). It's a good one, but nothing particularly amazing about it.


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## Sunfuns

NordikNerd said:


> I'm also think about that. With the Fehmarn connection will the nighttrains from Copenhagen to Amsterdam/Basel/Prague run through Puttgarden instead of Flensburg? What about the freight trains to Continental Europe will they run through Puttgarden, can the old Storström bridge handle that ?


Wasn't it just announced that a new bridge would be built and the old one demolished? It would make sense for pretty much any traffic not originating in or going to Jutland penninsula running through Puttgarden.


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## bongo-anders

Yes a new bridge with double track that can handle speeds of 200 km/h will be build, that one will cost 3,9 billion DKK. 


Today it takes 4:32 hours between Copenhagen and Hamburg via Fehmarn and 5:46 hours via Flensburg

Via Fehmarn it will take closer to 3 hours and via Flensburg probably between 5:15-5:30 hours because there will be no upgrades in southern Jutland.


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## Sunfuns

Looking at the Danish railway map I realized that almost all bigger towns in Denmark are facing Danish straights and hardly any the North sea. I assume there is a reason for it. Less safe in the past? Better fishing on the other side perhaps? Unstable coastline or too many storms?


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## chornedsnorkack

Sunfuns said:


> Looking at the Danish railway map I realized that almost all bigger towns in Denmark are facing Danish straights and hardly any the North sea. I assume there is a reason for it. Less safe in the past? Better fishing on the other side perhaps? Unstable coastline or too many storms?


The countryside is also relatively sparsely settled. Sandy, infertile land, poor heath pastures and forests. Also the coast is poor of harbours - sandy shores, what inlets exist are shallow and opened to storms at mouth. The few bigger towns on that coast include Ribe and Esbjerg.


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## Swede

bongo-anders said:


> If we took a trip from Denmarks 2 largest cities in the near future it looks like this.
> 
> Copenhagen - Ringsted 250 km/h
> Ringsted - Odense 200 km/h
> Odense - Middelfart 250 km/h
> Middelfart - Hovedgård 200+ km/h (including a bypass of Vejle)
> Hovedgård - Aarhus 250 km/h
> 
> That is way better than Sweden In 1990.


Way better than Sweden in 2013 too.


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## bongo-anders

chornedsnorkack said:


> As of 2021, what shall be the trip times Copenhagen-Hamburg via Flensburg and Fehmarn respectively?


Via Fehmarn it will be very close to 3 hours, cutting almost 1,5 hour of the trip.

Via Flensburg I'm guessing that somewhere between 20-30 minutes shorter.

The time gained from Copenhagen to Odense is 15 minutes, Odense Middelfart probably 5-10 minutes.

And soon they build the remaining double tracks towards the German border and that will probably also save some time because the trains don't have to wait on each others at the crossing stations in Vamdrup and Vojens.

I don't know if the Germans have something lined up between Hamburg, Rendsburg and Flensburg but I don't think they have.


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## bongo-anders

Sunfuns said:


> Looking at the Danish railway map I realized that almost all bigger towns in Denmark are facing Danish straights and hardly any the North sea. I assume there is a reason for it. Less safe in the past? Better fishing on the other side perhaps? Unstable coastline or too many storms?


The older danish tows was locatedin the fjords or in small rivers we got (Ribe) so it has most likely something to do with projection from the weather because its easier to build a harbour in the tributaries of the fjords.

The North Sea storms (Vesterhavs storm) can be very rough and so it's mostly fishermens who are living on the west coast.

larger commercial ports like Hirtshals and Hanstholm was just fishing harbours in the past but now they have lots of shipping industry and ferry lines to Norway, Faroe Islands and Iceland.

A city like Esbjerg is only build in modern times when construction methods allowed them to build a harbour, Esbjerg was very important in the trading between Great Britain and Denmark but its mostly know for the gas and oil industry today.

But it still got ferrys to Immingham and Harwich in England.


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## bongo-anders

Otazabi said:


> Denmark's railways can be much better, I don't know why the reason the railway lines are almost non-electrified, apart from the S-Tog in Copenhagen.


That's not true, the main lines are electrified from Helsingør north of Copenhagen until Fredericia and the German border and Sønderborg.

Then of course also the metro is electrified.

Next up are Lunderskov Esbjerg in 2015 and Sydbanen (Ringsted - Fehmarn Tunnel) and Lille Syd (Køge Nord - Næstved) in 2019 and the rest will follow in the years to come.


----------



## Never give up

bongo-anders said:


> That's not true, the main lines are electrified from Helsingør north of Copenhagen until Fredericia and the German border and Sønderborg.
> 
> Then of course also the metro is electrified.
> 
> Next up are Lunderskov Esbjerg in 2015 and Sydbanen (Ringsted - Fehmarn Tunnel) and Lille Syd (Køge Nord - Næstved) in 2019 and the rest will follow in the years to come.


Otazabi: See the map on post 382. 

As regards the future of the IC4 train sets the minister of transport Henrik Dam Kristensen says:

“I do not wish to define a pension plan for the IC4 train sets but the future of the railways in Denmark is not dependent on whether DSB succeeds in getting the IC4 train to run reliably. Time will tell what role of the IC4 sets will play in the future”

At the moment the IC4 sets run as single units on the regional lines from Aarhus to Esbjerg, Aarhus to Aalborg and a couple of limited-stop services between Aarhus and Copenhagen Airport.


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## metacatfry

It's a good development. Finally, after all those decades of discussions those meandering old old rail trails will be straightened out.
I'm disappointed though that it seems nothing will be straightened out between Aarhus and Randers, which is surely one of the worse offenders among Danish rail lines in this regard.


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## bongo-anders

There are also plans for that area and since they opted for only 160 Km/h between Hobro and Aalborg and not 200 km/h they have to get the extra time savings betweeb Hobro and Aarhus. 
The current vmax on the line is 120 km/h because of old signaling and sharp curves so 160 km/h will do good but 200 km/h would have been better.

The reduction is 15 minutes with 160 km/h and 17 minutes with 200 km/h so a train that only stops in Randers on the way from Aalborg to Aarhus will use between between 1 hour and 3 to 5 minutes depending on solution. (the report says aprox 1 hour and 4 to 6 but it doesn´t add up with the saved time)

Today it will be done in 1 hours and 21 minutes.


So in reality they just have to get 6 minutes or so on the old line between Hobro and Aarhus but if they want to have the regular intercity trains under 1 hour as well they need to find 13 minutes more and therefore the 2 extra minutes would have been nice.

I have heard of plans of a new line bypassing central Randers with a TGV style station out by the motorway instead.

I´m thinking that when the trains get out of brabrand and reach the E45 motorway west of Brabrand it will follow that motorway until north of Randers.

But the first report with all the details will come in the fall and then we will se where the new lines will be build and where exactly the bridge over Vejle Fjord will be located.


A dream scenario will be a project like Citytunneln in Malmö in Sweden.

A tunnel could start between Europaplads and Skolebakken stations located near Aarhus H it then follows Randersvej until a tunnel portal and station located very close to the new Skejby Hospital.

From here there will be around 4 kilometres to the E45 motorway.

It will be around 5,5 kilometres long and could include some stations in the tunnel. 

http://map.krak.dk/m/nqRsI


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## metacatfry

I will be very interested in seeing the actual details of track siting. I thought it sounded like these details had already been worked out but this is still only a broad political agreement then with much technical design work still to be done?


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## bongo-anders

I think yes, but it should be ready this fall so i don´t think that they just put up the numbers. :lol:


I got these informations but only in Danish.

http://www.bane.dk/visBanearbejde.asp?artikelID=10711

http://www.bane.dk/visBanearbejde.asp?artikelID=15234

http://www.bane.dk/visModulbeholder.asp?artikelID=17731


This one in English

http://www.bane.dk/visBanearbejde.asp?artikelID=17732


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## metacatfry

Ok, so there's hope. I think one hour between Aarhus-Aalborg is unambitious, it is only about 100 km, but it fits well with the overall rah-rah PR of 'one hour between each major city'. If the stretch Aarhus-Hobro gets a major revitalization nothing stops a faster connection.
(And I'm danish so thanks for the links).


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## bongo-anders

Here is a map of the speed upgrades i talked about earlier.


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## Otazabi

Never give up said:


> Otazabi: See the map on post 382.
> 
> As regards the future of the IC4 train sets the minister of transport Henrik Dam Kristensen says:
> 
> “I do not wish to define a pension plan for the IC4 train sets but the future of the railways in Denmark is not dependent on whether DSB succeeds in getting the IC4 train to run reliably. Time will tell what role of the IC4 sets will play in the future”
> 
> At the moment the IC4 sets run as single units on the regional lines from Aarhus to Esbjerg, Aarhus to Aalborg and a couple of limited-stop services between Aarhus and Copenhagen Airport.


I've already saw it, thanks


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## bongo-anders

More news about the railways.

The decision to build the Ringsted - Fehmarn line to 200 km/h is finally in.

It includes two new flyovers south of Ringsted so trains going toward Storebælt and Fehmarn can run uninterupted.

The new bridge over Storstrømmen is going into the planning fase (enviromental studies and so on)

The Bridge leading up to Storstrømsbroen at Madsnedsund is being replaced instead of rebuild so it also can handle 200 km/h trains.

Also a new rail connection to the port of Esbjerg is also decided. 

http://www.trm.dk/da/publikationer/2013/transportaftale+21+marts/


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## bongo-anders

Branch line to Aalborg airport











Flyovers near Ringsted Station











Speed upgrades between Aalborg and Hobro from 120 km/h to 160 km/h and possible even 200 km/h.











A smaller one but new rail connection to the port of Esbjerg


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## Spikespiegel

During the easter break, the railroad between Vanløse and Herlev was closed for just five days while 4 bridges on the stretch were renovated. Two of the bridges (from 1935 and 1947 respectively) had to be entirely replaced. Below is a video that shows the entire installation of the new bridge:


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## bongo-anders

Its a nice video, I was actually thinking about posting it in the Copenhagen - Public transport thread where its probably more suited.


But its very impressive that they could build it so fast.


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## bongo-anders

The world famous Venice Simplon Orient Express was in Denmark today, here are some pictures from the Copenhagen Suburb of Høje Taastrup and from the central station (København H). 


First at Høje Taastrup, the sun was not kind to me but i won´t let the pictures get wasted.

































At København H


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## hans280

Yes, Anders, I read Danish - and I have followed the debate in the Danish engineering press. What bugs me is that the Dutch and the Belgians have apparently made a "clean cut": "we won't use that train - period!" In Denmark there's always a revised delivery plan, and another, and another.... Why doesn't someone have the balls to say "STOP!"???


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## bongo-anders

I can give you 4 billion good reasons :lol:


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## hans280

bongo-anders said:


> I can give you 4 billion good reasons :lol:


In the private sector this happens a lot. When, for example, Daimler disengaged from their ill-fated venture with Chrysler they had to book losses that were a heck of a lot bigger than 4 bn Dkr. But... It didn't work properly, so they wrote off a few billions (euros!) and turned the page.


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## AlexNL

According to ing.dk on June 13th, only 19 of the 73 delivered IC4 trains can be used in service. The rest is out of service, often waiting for the delivery of spare parts through AnsaldoBreda.

DSB is attempting to directly procure the spare parts from AnsaldoBreda's suppliers...


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## NordikNerd

Hello. I was in Odense and saw the great railway Museum ! If you pass by Odense you have to see it !




Also Question: Does someone know anything about the railway to Assens, Fyn. I was recently there and the tracks to the station are removed. Is the line still in use for freight trains ?


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## DenverDane

NordikNerd said:


> Also Question: Does someone know anything about the railway to Assens, Fyn. I was recently there and the tracks to the station are removed. Is the line still in use for freight trains ?


No, according to this site, the tracks were abandoned in 1993.
http://www.kulturarv.dk/1001fortael...s/newest/1/udsnit-af-kort-over-jernbanen-1930


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## Nexis




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## bongo-anders

Nærumbanen is a nice little railroad.


The number of double tracked rail lines in Denmark has been raised by 7,5 kilometres as the first leg of the Lejre Vipperød project (Lejre to Hvalsø) is finished.
This railway is part of the Nordvestbanen between Roskilde where it branch of the mainline and to Kalundborg on the west coast of Sjælland. 

The top speed is raised to 160 Km/H (from 120 Km/H) and Lejre and Hvalsø stations has been totally rebuild with passenger tunnels instead of level crossings.

The Nordvestbanen will be closed for the third and last time next summer when the last part from Hvalsø to Vipperød is constructed.
This project also includes the renovation of the stations in Tølløse and Vipperød so the level crossings will disappear.

When all of this is done in the start of 2015 (perhaps by the timetable change in december 2014) there will be double track all the way from Roskilde to Holbæk and the top speed will be 160 Km/H.


Currently only Roskilde-Lejre and Vipperød-Holbæk is double tracked.
Holbæk to Kalundborg will still be single tracked in the foreseeable future, but there is plans to use 86 million DKK to upgrade the line from 120 Km/H to 160 Km/H. 

When the new signaling programme is done in 2020 then the plan is to also electrify this line all the way to Kalundborg in a plan to unify all lines on Sjælland so only electric powered trains will be used. (except local trains that does not run on the main lines) 

http://www.bane.dk/visNyhed.asp?artikelID=19162


While this project is in full swing another one is starting up.

5 companies has been prequalified to bid on the construction jobs that are starting this spring on the line between Vamdrup and Vojens, this is the only part with single track on the mainline between Aalborg and Padborg.


The project will change this line from single track to double track and the top speed will be raised to 160 Km/H


http://www.bane.dk/visNyhed.asp?artikelID=19146


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## kalaha

bongo-anders said:


> 5 companies has been prequalified to bid on the construction jobs that are starting this spring on the line between Vamdrup and Vojens, this is the only part with single track on the mainline between Aalborg and Padborg.


You forgot there are also single track between Tinglev and Padborg


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## bongo-anders

Ups that is off course correct.

But why is it not included in the plan, I know its a small part of the line (only around 15 kilometres) and its located after the branch line to Sønderborg but it must the easier to make the train schedules with a double track in use.


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## kalaha

You know, it is quite similar to motorway projects: when you remove one bottleneck, another shows up...


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## bongo-anders

Haha so eventually they have to build this one unless it comes obsolete after the Fehmarn tunnel is build.


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## Coccodrillo

I have always found strange having built two big bridge-tunnel complexes leaving a single track on a flat and empty terrain.

I suppose that's one reason because the Sassnitz (D)-Trelleborg (S) train ferry still operates (another reason might be congestion around Copenhagen? solvable only by the HH tunnel).


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## Sunfuns

Maybe all the Danes have moved to Copenhagen so there is no need for trains on the peninsula anymore? opcorn:


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## Suburbanist

Any recent updates on the IC4 project?


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## bongo-anders

DSB has accepted the deliverence of all the IC4 trains besides the one that Gadaffi got.


DSB is now rebuilding the trains at the bombardier workshop in Randers and their onw workshop in Aarhus.

The number of kilometres the trains run between breakdowns is now around 5.000 kilometres.

They have started to run a few departures with 2 trains coupled together.


So small progresses :nuts:


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## bongo-anders

The plan to electrify all mainlines and reduce travel times between the main danish cities called timeplanen (the Hour Plan) has come a step closer as the government has made a agreement to finance the 28,5 billion DKK plan


The article is only in danish but the main subjects of the plan has been presented in this thread.

But the main subjects are as followed

Electrify all mainlines before 2025
Travel time from Copenhagen to Odense in 1 hour, to Aarhus and Esbjerg in 2 hours and Aalborg in 3 Hours.


New high speed line (250 km/h) between Copenhagen and Ringsted is already under construction but is the first leg in Timeplanen.

Upgrade between Ringsted and Odense to 200 km/h.

New high Speed line (250 km/h) between Odense an Middelfart on Vestfyen 

New bridge over Vejlefjord to bypass the city of Vejle

New high speed line between Hovedgård and Aarhus in east Jylland.

The line between Aarhus and Hobro is either reconstructed to aprox 200 km/h or a new mainline along the E45 motorway is build (probably 250 km/h)

Hobro to Aalborg is upgraded to 200 km/h

Aalborg to Frederikshavn is most likely upgraded to 160 km/h from 120 km/h.

The leg from Kolding west of Middelfart to the german border is currently being upgraded to double track and 160 km/h, it is already under wire.

The leg from Kolding to Esbjerg is currently being electrified and is being build so the train can go 200 km/h or more in the future. 


The branch lines from Roskilde west of Copenhagen to Kalundborg and from Køge Nord (on the new high speed line from Copenhagen) to Næstved (on the Fehmarn line) is most likely also being upgraded to 160 km/h and gets electricification.

Also the branch line from Vejle to Struer is being upgraded with electricification and most likely 160 km/h.



http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Indland/2013/09/17/175342.htm

http://www.trm.dk/da/publikationer/2013/togfonden+dk+-+fremtidens+jernbane/




The 200 km/h line from Ringsted to the Fehmarn Tunnel is not part of this project and are already underway.


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## Sunfuns

This thread started six years ago with a claim of Danish railways being the worst in Western Europe.


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## bongo-anders

But to be fair the railways in Denmark was is a bad shape around that time, egen it got warm (as it usually does in the summer) the train speed was reduced, resulting in many many delays.

Most railway lines has now been renovated and some is even getting double tracked, today only the main line and Copenhagen S train and metro is doubled tracked.

That is the fehmarn line that today are singled tracked from Vordingborg to the tunnel.
Roskilde to Holbæk 
Vamdrup to Vojens.


On top of that we got (and still has) problems with IC4 and on Zealand some of the regional trains to Copenhagen was using old carriages from the 80'ties or even 70'ties.

They are now replaced with modern bilevel carriages and some of the diesel powered locomotives will replaced with electric locomotives in 2015.

One good thing that has come out of the IC4 scandal is that the government has been pushed towards this new train project. :lol:


----------



## bongo-anders

Some of the projects in Timeplanen has now been revealed.


All railwaylines are build to 250 km/h, but are prepared to operate at 300 km/h



A 35 kilometre railwayline on western Fyen costing 4,9 billion DKK






A bridge over Vejle Fjord including connecting railwaylines costing 4,3 billion DKK









A 23 kilometre railwayline from Hovedgård to Aarhus costing 3,3 billion DKK 








A further 1 billion DKK will be used to upgrade the lines between Fredericia and Vejle Fjord and Vejle Fjord to Hovedgård to 200 km/h.
This is the yellow lines on the Vejle Fjord map.


http://ing.dk/artikel/saadan-kommer-danmarks-nye-hoejhastighedsbane-til-se-ud-161859


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...her-doubt-over-dsb-ic4-fleet.html?channel=542
> 
> *Axlebox cracks cast further doubt over DSB IC4s*
> Wednesday, July 09, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Damaged axlebox_
> 
> FURTHER doubts have emerged over the future of the fleet of 105 IC4 and IC2 DMUs ordered in 2000 by Danish State Railways (DSB) from AnsaldoBreda after the completion of an investigation into cracked axleboxes on the trains.
> 
> Following the discovery of cracks in February, DSB commissioned German Rail (DB) engineering consultancy subsidiary DB Systemtechnik to carry out an investigation into the causes and potential solutions to the problem.
> 
> The evaluation, which was published on the DSB website on July 8, shows that damage to axleboxes and primary dampers were the result of several factors, which DSB says will require further investigation.
> 
> DB Systemtechnik recommends fitting the vehicles with an optimised shock absorber and the wheelslip protection system should also be recalibrated to reduce tread damage. The report suggests testing wheelsets with higher tensile strength and the preparation of detailed maintenance instructions for axleboxes, together with a visual inspection every seven days. New calculations are also recommended to establish the true strength of the axleboxes, taking into account the actual damper force. This data can then be used to develop an optimised axlebox configuration.
> 
> DSB says it will now carry out tests on the basis of the report's recommendations, including running and braking technical investigations, residual stresss management and non-destructive testing of the damaged wheels, and development of detailed damages statistics.
> 
> Last month DSB announced it would launch a further study to ascertain whether the troubled fleet has a future, particularly in light of plans to electrify a much larger proportion of the Danish network than was envisaged when the trains were ordered in 2000.
> 
> "The final report supports the conclusions that were instrumental to DSB's decision to launch a new independent investigation into whether it is feasible and economically reasonable for the fleet to operate with a sufficiently high level of operational stability," says Mr Steen Schougaard Christensen, DSB's maintenance director. "The recommendations of DB Systemtechnik and our operating experience will feed into the overall assessment of whether it is worthwhile continuing with the development of the IC4 and IC2 trains, or whether to launch a Plan B."


----------



## Coccodrillo

^^ The only "Plan B" I see is trying to use the IC4 for 10 years until new electric trains will replace them. Are there better alternatives? I mean, DSB accepted the IC4, so alternative options should have been taken 5 years ago or so.


----------



## AlexNL

Well, the Dutch accepted 9 of their V250 trains but managed to close a deal with AnsaldoBreda to get at least a part of their money back (about half?). Given the recent developments and the notorious unreliability of the sets, I can see DSB wanting to get their money back as well. I don't think AnsaldoBreda is willing to close such a deal though, the IC2/IC4 fleet is much larger than the V250 fleet and the sets will probably be much harder to re-sell than the V250's. Also, DSB did a lot of the work themselves so AnsaldoBreda will probably say that the Danes did a lousy job at it...

Regarding a "Plan B", a possibility I see is that DSB invests to keep their current rolling stock operational for a couple more years (which probably means another life expanding overhaul). Should it be impossible to keep the current stock running, then perhaps DSB can rent some coaches from DB and lease some diesel locomotives to run some long distance services so DMUs can be cleared for where they are necessary.

Meanwhile, DSB should start a tender procedure for new EMUs so that those can enter service as soon as electrification of a railway line is complete.


----------



## Suburbanist

Could it be that the quality of Danish tracks is beyond the specifications for long-term wear, which produces premature defects on repeated stress-impacted components? Axleboxes shouldn't crack like that with just few years of use.

Hopefully adjustments can be made and the trains be put to fulfill their plan on the Danish network


----------



## Silly_Walks

Suburbanist said:


> Could it be that the quality of Danish tracks is beyond the specifications for long-term wear, which produces premature defects on repeated stress-impacted components?


Ah yes, cause it couldn't possibly be AnsaldoBreda's fault. :lol:




> Axleboxes shouldn't crack like that with just few years of use.


Exactly, tell that to AnsaldoBreda.




The fanboyism is strong in this one. :bash:


----------



## Suburbanist

Silly_Walks said:


> Ah yes, cause it couldn't possibly be AnsaldoBreda's fault. :lol:


The report cited above doesn't mention an exact cause, so we should keep an open mind to possible obtuse causes of the cracks.

A manufacturing error is possible, a design error less so. There has been some slip-ups on production management at their plants. Hopefully that also gets addresses, IC4 was still a huge money-loser for Ansaldo Breda. They actually lost more money on it than on Fyra. A lot of work had to be re-done and some sets used more than 250% the predicted and budgeted man-hour load.


----------



## MarcVD

Suburbanist said:


> Could it be that the quality of Danish tracks is beyond the specifications for long-term wear, which produces premature defects on repeated stress-impacted components? Axleboxes shouldn't crack like that with just few years of use.
> 
> Hopefully adjustments can be made and the trains be put to fulfill their plan on the Danish network


Well, if the problem was with the tracks, other rolling stock should start
having similar problems too, right ?


----------



## bongo-anders

Funny enough I had my 2nd trip with IC4 today travelling from Esbjerg to Fredericia.

I think that it drives well at good speed but as a regionaltog it doesn´t work very well because the acceleration is rather slow and you can feel when the the train driver shift gears.


----------



## Maadeuurija

bongo-anders said:


> I think that it drives well at good speed but as a regionaltog it doesn´t work very well because the acceleration is rather slow and you can feel when the the train driver shift gears.



shifts gears?  It has an direct mechanical transmission like in a car?


----------



## bongo-anders

I would think so, it did feel like when you change gear in a bus or truck and its a diesel engine so why not.

I do however think that its a automatic gear somehow but I can ask around and get a proper answer

To compare then I can tell that the old IC3 just got its old engine replaced with some truck engines from Iveco.


----------



## Silly_Walks

bongo-anders said:


> its a diesel engine so why not.


Because the diesel engine isn't directly connected to the wheels.

The diesel engine generates electricity, which is used to power the electric engine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel-electric_transmission


----------



## Maadeuurija

bongo-anders said:


> I would think so, it did feel like when you change gear in a bus or truck and its a diesel engine so why not.
> 
> I do however think that its a automatic gear somehow but I can ask around and get a proper answer
> 
> To compare then I can tell that the old IC3 just got its old engine replaced with some truck engines from Iveco.



seems you're right, Wikipedia says it does in fact have mechanical transmission... :nuts:


----------



## bongo-anders

Its also feels like that when it accelerated.


But I'm no expert whatsoever it was just my experience sitting in the train.


----------



## Coccodrillo

As far I know, the IC4 have a mechanical transmission (by request of DSB), which is one of the origin of the problems.

Strange request were a problem of the Fyra as well (like an HST-like train cheaper than the others).

I heard that only AnsaldoBreda made an offer to both the NS and DSB's tenders. If this is true, then these two disasters are a mix of incompetence from all sides.


----------



## bongo-anders

But IC3 works very well with a mechanical transmission so Its not the only reason and so far there haven´t been any problems with it on the IC4.


----------



## K_

Silly_Walks said:


> Because the diesel engine isn't directly connected to the wheels. The diesel engine generates electricity, which is used to power the electric engine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel-electric_transmission


Not all diesel trains are diesel electric. It is quite common for DMUs to have direct drive, or hydraulic transmission. Hydraulic transmission is also quite common in locomotives.


----------



## AlexNL

Coccodrillo said:


> Strange request were a problem of the Fyra as well (like an HST-like train cheaper than the others).
> 
> I heard that only AnsaldoBreda made an offer to both the NS and DSB's tenders. If this is true, then these two disasters are a mix of incompetence from all sides.


Yes and no. Both the railways and AB made mistakes (and lots of them), but it is still AnsaldoBreda who is responsible for the drama. They are the builder of the rolling stock, not their customers.

It was AnsaldoBreda that said they could build the trains according to the specifications outlined by NS and DSB. That AB were the only remaining bidders (others dropped out during tendering procedures) should've been a warning for the railways ("maybe we want something which is impossible"), but AB should have been responsible enough to know if they can deliver on their promise.

They didn't. They offered rolling stock that matched the specifications on paper, but that did not perform well in reality. The V250 fiasco has come to an end last year, and it looks like the IC4 drama is in it's final chapter as well.

Of course, NS and DSB made huge mistakes and should've bailed out of the V250 and IC4 projects years ago, but this would've left them without trains and huge lawsuits with AnsaldoBreda.


----------



## Silly_Walks

K_ said:


> Not all diesel trains are diesel electric. It is quite common for DMUs to have direct drive, or hydraulic transmission. Hydraulic transmission is also quite common in locomotives.


Wow, thanks, learn something new every day!


I thought they were always diesel-electric for the direct 100% torque that electric engines provide.


----------



## MarcVD

Silly_Walks said:


> I thought they were always diesel-electric for the direct 100% torque that electric engines provide.


Electric transmission has indeed very interesting service characteristics, but
a serious drawback : the installed power is three times the useful power 
(prime mover + alternator + electric motors) and therefore it is heavy and 
expensive. So for rolling stock where weight is a problem, such as DMUs
used for suburban service, this solution is almost never used (can't think
about one single example, actually). Old DMUs used gearboxes, recent ones
all use torque converters. What the OP felt was probably the change of
transmission ratio in the torque converter : some do that continuously, but
others use a cascade of fixed ratios, and as such feel really like a gearbox.


----------



## Maadeuurija

MarcVD said:


> So for rolling stock where weight is a problem, such as DMUs
> used for suburban service, this solution is almost never used (can't think
> about one single example, actually).



Well... our new FLIRT DMU's use diesel-electric transmission, although the 4-car ones use ultracapacitors to match the acceleration of smaller 2 and 3 car consists...


----------



## Never give up

http://cphpost.dk/news/colossal-scandinavian-project-aims-to-connect-copenhagen-and-oslo.10482.html


----------



## K_

Maadeuurija said:


> Well... our new FLIRT DMU's use diesel-electric transmission, although the 4-car ones use ultracapacitors to match the acceleration of smaller 2 and 3 car consists...


Stadler has of course a lot more experience building electric Flirts. So they took one, and added a diesel power module...


----------



## behnam1

Never give up said:


> Great collection representing a huge timespan.
> May I include one of mine; a prototype loco hauled train set, popularily called IC5.
> 2 sets were built, I think in the 90´s and ran for about 5 years before being abandoned for the train set concept, the IC3. The sets were refurbished and sold to Iran.


Hi.I'm persian.I need all of drawing about IC5 train.Can you help me please?I am in iran and I work in Bon rail company that give this train from denmark.we repair it.and I can send for you pictures of IC5.


----------



## bongo-anders

Here are some of the first high speed line construction sites in Køge.


The socalled Skolesti bicycle bridge over the Lille Syd line is done, I imagine that this will be a prime spot for trainspotters in a few years time but also during construction.








A view towards Lille Skensved.


----------



## bongo-anders

behnam1 said:


> Hi.I'm persian.I need all of drawing about IC5 train.Can you help me please?I am in iran and I work in Bon rail company that give this train from denmark.we repair it.and I can send for you pictures of IC5.




Hope this will help.


http://jernbanen.dk/lyntog.php?typenr=4&n=dsb-lyntog-prototype-apo


----------



## bongo-anders

20 kilometers of doubletrack opened last weekend between Lejre on Vipperød so now there is doubletrack all the way from Holbæk in the west to the where Nordvestbanen meets the mainline south of Roskilde,

It was delivered on time and 200 million kroner under budget (1,1 billion intead of 1,3 billion)


The tracks has been upgraded to 160 km/h instead of 120 km/h and Lejre, Hvalsø, Tølløse and Vipperød stations has been upgraded.


Some pictures is available here.

http://www.bane.dk/visArtikel.asp?artikelID=20975



Another doubletrack project, the one Between Vamdrup and Vojens in Sønderjylland (southern Jutland) really picked up speed this summer and should be ready next year.


Like the other project on Sjælland (Zealand) this is also 20 kilometres long and is upgraded to 160 km/h.


But what seperates this project is that there is no stations to be upgraded and that its electrified so the new track will of course also get electrification



The electrification of the 57 kilometer line between Lunderskov and Esbjerg should also be ready next year.

The line is cabable of 180 km/h but to future proof the line the wires and poles are build for 200 km/h.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/rolling-stock/dsb-proposes-$us-4bn-rolling-stock-investment.html?channel=529
> 
> *DSB proposes $US 4bn rolling stock investment*
> Tuesday, August 26, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DANISH State Railways (DSB) has revealed proposals to invest DKr 20-22bn ($US 3.5-3.9bn) in the renewal of its rolling stock fleet through its Future Train strategy, which was presented to the Ministry of Transport on August 26.
> 
> The strategy is intended to be a continuation of the DKr 28.5bn Togfonden DK programme approved by the Danish government last year which will use revenues from North Sea oil to fund enhancements to the rail network including route modernisation and electrification to reduce journey times between Denmark's major towns and cities.
> 
> DSB has identified a requirement for 275 new trains over the next 15 years divided into three categories: a 160km/h regional train; a 200km/h inter-city train; and a 250km/h high-speed train
> 
> ...


----------



## Coccodrillo

> a 200km/h inter-city train; and a 250km/h high-speed train


250 or 249?

In the first case, why not 300 (even if it would be pointless, without real highs peed lines)?

In the second case, why not just 249, instead of a train for 200 and one for 249?


----------



## Sunfuns

Is there a serious "jump" in regulations going from 249 t0 250?


----------



## bongo-anders

I can't remember the requirements but there is more when going 250 and over.


Also all the new high speed lines is "only" build for 250 km/h.


----------



## Coccodrillo

Up to 249,999 km/h trains fall into TSI 2 category, which hass less requirements (= it is cheaper) than TSI 1 (250 km/h and above, 250 being the low limit of high speed).

That's why top speed of both SBB's Stadler trains for the Gotthard and DB's ICx is officially 249 km/h (and thus they are not high speed).

TSI means technical specifications interoperability, a group of norms to standardize the various European rail regulations. I don't know by heart, however, what's the differences between the two classes. I suppose resistance to crashes, pressurization, and similar safety or comfort features.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...n-ringsted-–-fehmarn-upgrade.html?channel=542
> 
> *Denmark breaks ground on Ringsted – Fehmarn upgrade*
> Tuesday, September 02, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _DENMARK's transport minister Mr Magnus Heunicke officially launched preliminary construction on September 2 on a DKr 9.3bn ($US 1.64bn) project to rebuild the 115km Ringsted – Holeby line, which will become the main rail link between Scandinavia and Germany when the 18km Fehmarnbelt Fixed Link opens in 2021_
> 
> The project involves upgrading the line for 200km/h operation, construction of a second track on the section between Vordingborg and Holeby (with the exception of the Storstrøm Bridge, which will remain single track), rebuilding of 100 bridges, electrification, and refurbishment of stations. In addition the line will be equipped with ERTMS and a 4km deviation will be constructed north of Glumsø to eliminate sharp curves on this section.
> 
> Major construction is expected to begin on the project next year
> 
> ...


----------



## bongo-anders

The first sign of the future railway system ERTMS-2 was shown in Herfølge yesterday as the first "sikringshytte" was put in place on the first test line, the Lille Syd Line.



http://www.bane.dk/visNyhed.asp?artikelID=21072



To be honest i don´t know the english word for sikringshytte but its a 13 sqm box located several places along the lines that stores all the signals etc.


Here is a picture for the one located at Hillerød station for the S-tog system.

http://www.dagens.dk/nyheder/se-billederne-banedanmark-løftede-stor-sikringshytte-på-plads


----------



## AlexNL

If I understand the article correctly, this hut was placed along a railway line which belongs to the Copenhagen S-Tog network. The S-Tog will not be secured with ERTMS, but will be secured with CBTC instead.

A proper name for a hut like this one is probably something like 'signal box', although it should not be confused with a room where signallers plan routes.

In the ERTMS world this would probably be called a Radio Block Centre (RBC).


----------



## M-NL

It's very unlikely it's a RBC. A RBC is nothing more then the computer interface between the signal box interlocking and ERTMS air interface. For instance in the entire Netherlands there currently is only one RBC (in Rotterdam), to be expanded to 2 in the near future. Thus it's unlikely they would several of them in Danmark.

"Sikringshytte" litterally translates to safety cabinet. 'Lineside switching cabinet' would be my suggestion.


----------



## bongo-anders

Ohh sorry if my post was to comfusing.


The Radio Block Centre (thanks for that) was being placed at Herfølge station on the Lille Syd line.


The pictures from Hillerød (on the S-train line) was just to show a picture of what I was talking about.

BTW the S-train system will get CBTC and not ERTMS-2.


----------



## AlexNL

M-NL said:


> It's very unlikely it's a RBC. A RBC is nothing more then the computer interface between the signal box interlocking and ERTMS air interface. For instance in the entire Netherlands there currently is only one RBC (in Rotterdam), to be expanded to 2 in the near future. Thus it's unlikely they would several of them in Danmark.
> 
> "Sikringshytte" litterally translates to safety cabinet. 'Lineside switching cabinet' would be my suggestion.


Agreed, RBCs can cover huge areas. 

Now that I think of it, maybe it's a Lineside Electronics Unit (LEU) although I expected those to be smaller...


----------



## bongo-anders

So its either a Lineside Electronics Unit (LEU) or a '
Lineside switching cabinet (LSC).


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## M-NL

I thought LEUs were only necessary for L1 and Denmark was implementing L2. Or are they also implementing L1 on lesser used lines or as a fall back?


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## bongo-anders

Level 2 baseline 3, whatever that means. :nuts:


So no signals along the line


----------



## bongo-anders

New design yet again for the Storstrøm bridge, I hope this is the final one.


----------



## Never give up

bongo-anders said:


> New design yet again for the Storstrøm bridge, I hope this is the final one.


^^

http://vejdirektoratet.dk/SiteColle...nformation meeting - shown at the meeting.pdf


----------



## telemaxx

Why does Railway Journal say that the Storstrom bridge stays single tracked? Because it is considered a seperate project?


----------



## bongo-anders

Because the Fehmarn belt project doesn't include a new bridge.

But the bridge was in such a bad shape so they decided to build a new one, as far as I recall the money comes the surplus from the railway signaling programme.


----------



## bongo-anders

Conceptual drawings of Herfølge, Holme Olstrup and Haslev stations on the Lille Syd line after electrification.


----------



## dimlys1994

DSB revealed its new logo. This is previous logo:










And this is current. Similar one to S-tog sign:










All taken from Branding Source


----------



## Sunfuns

Previous one looks better. Why it had to be changed?


----------



## AlexNL

I agree, the old logo is better because it's much more distinctive than the current one.










The logo looks good on a post, but it is rather generic. It can be easily seen as a generic indicator for a railway station, as has happened in the UK with the old British Rail logo.


----------



## bongo-anders

I also like the old logo better.


----------



## bongo-anders

The Vigerslev flyover is now in public hearing.

http://www.bane.dk/visBanearbejde.asp?artikelID=20356





Never give up said:


> Banedanmarks proposal for the new railway flyover in Vigerslev now in hearing.
> The flyover allows trains (mainly freight) from the Øresund link towards Høje Taastrup to cross the new fast lines to Køge/Ringsted.


----------



## bongo-anders

Banedanmarks presentation of the new Sydbanen that will connect the main line(s) to the Fehmarn Tunnel.









And a animation of the connection of the new Copenhagen Ringsted high speed line and Lille Syd just north of Køge


----------



## bongo-anders

And the first part of the new line out of southern Copenhagen, it will start from the flyover shown a few post up.


----------



## bongo-anders

The second high speed line after Copenhagen - Ringsted is Odense - Kauslunde and its already going in the early planning phase.




Never give up said:


> Cowi, Godtlieb Paludan and GHB have won the contract to make the preliminary design the new high speed (250 km/h) railway line across western Funen from Odense til Kauslunde.
> 
> http://byensejendom.dk/article/cowi...ghedsbane-paa-vestfyn-til-49-milliarder-14018
> 
> http://leverandorportal.vejdirektor...okumenter/PLA-PA.R001 - Opgavebeskrivelse.pdf


----------



## Sunfuns

Is that part of the previously announced plan to have one hour connections between major Danish cities?


----------



## Nexis




----------



## 1993matias

Sunfuns said:


> Is that part of the previously announced plan to have one hour connections between major Danish cities?


Yes, without this it is not possible to have a travel time of one hour between Odense and Århus


----------



## bongo-anders

Here are a couple of videos shot around Odense, Kolding, Fredericia, Sorø and Viby Sjælland.


----------



## Coccodrillo

bongo-anders said:


> The second high speed line after Copenhagen - Ringsted is Odense - Kauslunde and its already going in the early planning phase.


Will the old Odense-Kauslunde line remain in service?

When should open the new line?


----------



## milipumba

The old line will be kept for local and freight trains.
The new line should be ready around year 2023.


----------



## bongo-anders

I though that they had moved the construction closer to 2020.

Because the department for transportation announced some projects that they had moved forward, amongst others electrification and speed upgrade on Lille Syd.
But I'm positively sure that they had moved the timeline for this one as well.


----------



## bongo-anders

I was almost right but mostly wrong :bash:


The construction period has been moved forward from 2020-2024 to 2018-2023.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...borg-airport-rail-link-study.html?channel=542
> 
> *EU funds Aalborg Airport rail link study*
> Wednesday, November 05, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _European Union Innovation and Networks Executive Agency (INEA) has allocated Denmark €500,000 from the TEN-T Programme to fund preliminary technical and environmental studies for a main line rail link to Aalborg Airport_
> 
> Danish infrastructure manager Banedanmark is developing plans for the 3km line, which will branch off the existing Aalborg – Frederikshavn line north of Lindholm.
> 
> Public consultation concluded last December and the environmental impact assessment is due to be completed next year.
> 
> Construction is expected to begin in 2016 with commissioning scheduled for 2019
> 
> ...


^^And map:


----------



## bongo-anders

COBE, Dissing + Weitling and COWI won the competition to build the Køge Nord Station on the Copenhagen-Ringsted high speed line.


http://www.koege.dk/Service/Nyheder/2014/11/Koegenordstation.aspx


----------



## dimlys1994

^^UFO over highway


----------



## bongo-anders

A more detailed map of the 2 proposed alignments of the Vestfyen high speed line.


----------



## Sunfuns

That's a minuscule difference. It seems to boil down ore or less to where to build a bridge over a motorway...


----------



## bongo-anders

Since Banedanmark isn´t so good at doing photo updates like their counterpart Vejdirektoratet one must do it :nuts:



So here are pictures from the new Copenhagen-Ringsted high speed line taken around Solrød and Køge Nord.



First pictures are from Solrød Byvej


Looking north





And south







In Køge they are constructing a flyunder, or is it a flyover :lol:










The railway between Køge and Roskilde (called Lille Syd) will also pass under the new line and that happens just south of the flyunder as the flyunder will connect to Lille Syd on the other side of the motorway.
















Here they are digging the flyunder









As if 5 cranes isn´t enough there are 3 more behind the future Køge Nord station.


----------



## bongo-anders

South of all of this they are preparing to build the railwayline, here it will be elevated up to 12 meters above ground as it has to pass a road that is already passing the motorway on a bridge.


----------



## bongo-anders

And while we are in the danish railway section, here are to pictures of Litra MR on the Lille Syd line.


----------



## bongo-anders

As i talked about Vejdirektoratets photo updates I might aswell show the ones where there has sneaked some railway lines in.


The small tunnel is for the new railway.





Here they are building the tunnel under Egedesvej





Its clear on these aerial where the railroad will be.


----------



## bongo-anders

The Long awaited IC 2/IC4 report is finally here.

The main points are..

In 2019 to have 74 out of 105 sets (82 IC4 and 23 IC2) in service.
Also in 2019 to have each trainset to run 20.000 kilometres without incidents.

All 74 trainsets to run without restrictions with lower speed limits or trains not coupled together. 


5 out of the last 31 trainsets has been used for spareparts, it was the first 5 delivered.

It seems like its just an added bonus if they get the last 26 trains going.

The budget is only for the 74 trains mentioned before, its 1,5 million kroner for each trainset to get them work properly.


http://www.dsb.dk/om-dsb/presse/pressemeddelelser/ic-4-rapport-offentliggjort/


----------



## bongo-anders

The future high speed line out of Copenhagen is progressing with construction sites all the way from Copenhagen to east of Ringsted.


The flyunder south of Køge Nord Station is one big mess when seen from the outside but I´m sure they got the hang of it.


http://www.bane.dk/visModulbeholder.asp?artikelID=18042


----------



## NordikNerd

*Lyntog in Copenhagen 1968*

























I think this was the international train Hamburg-Copenhagen. It looks like the german TEE-train.


----------



## 1993matias

NordikNerd said:


> *Lyntog in Copenhagen 1968*
> ...
> I think this was the international train Hamburg-Copenhagen. It looks like the german TEE-train.


Actually, no. The Danish train is based upon the German TEE-train, but can be decoupled in the middle and continue as two independent trains. This was to facilitate the ferry crossing between the main isles in Denmark, and also allow for direct trains to smaller destinations with fewer passengers. The first 'Lyntog' in Denmark was in 1935, derived from another German train, der Fliegende Hamburger.


----------



## Never give up

An very detailed article in the Rail Engineer, "the cost of failure" about the IC4 dmus from AnsaldoBreda.


http://www.railengineer.uk/2015/02/10/the-cost-of-failure/


----------



## Sunfuns

How is your country wide electrification programm proceeding? Any lines to be finished already in 2015?


----------



## hans280

Sunfuns said:


> How is your country wide electrification programm proceeding? Any lines to be finished already in 2015?


It was hoped that the electrification between Esbjerg and Lunderskov (i.e. between western and eastern Jutland) would be finished in 2015. However, because of "problems with finding a contractor who could do this in accelerated time" (the explanation put forward by the track operator Banedanmark on its website) it has been delayed to the second half of 2016.


----------



## bongo-anders

As it looks look now the current schedule is like this.


Esbjerg-Lunderskov - 57 km - 2016
København-Ringsted - 60 km - 2018
Køge Nord-Næstved - 45 km - 2018
Ringsted-Holeby - 112 km - 2021
Roskilde-Kalundborg - 118 km - 2022-24
Fredericia-Aarhus - 109 km - 2021-23
Aarhus-Aalborg - 140 km - 2021-23
Vejle-Struer - 130 km - 2024-26
Aalborg-Frederikshavn - 85 km - 2023-25


----------



## bongo-anders

As noted before Banedanmark doesn´t make any aerial photos of the new high speed line between Copenhagen and Ringsted so we will have to do with Vejdirektoratets aerials of the Køge Bugt motorway widening.


Here between Tåstrupvej and the motorway, north of Cementvej.




Egedesvej just north of the future Køge Nord station, the exit is build because the station will facilitate a park and ride park with 2.700 parking spaces.




Here at Lyngvej the railway will pass the intersection on the west side of the motorway 12 meters above ground.




Not much have happened here since the last picture I posted.




The outline of the railway is very clear





The flyunder, Køge Nord statiion and Egedesvej is visible in the background.





At Solrød Byvej the brige over the railway (and motorway) is now in use and the old bridge has been removed.


----------



## bongo-anders

I have been on a photo tour around Køge and here are my shots of the railway construction on the northern part of Køge.


Køge Nord station.








Here we north of Lyngvej.


----------



## new88

thank you


----------



## bongo-anders

The construction sites south of the new Køge Nord station is in full swing. 



First up is the new tunnel under the Køge Bugt line of the S-train system (Line E)


----------



## bongo-anders

On the other side of the motorway the new high speed line will be located on a 10 meter high embankment.


The crane is constructing the bridge that will carry the railway over the relocated exit ramps on the motorway.


----------



## bongo-anders

Here the railway will cross the Lille Syd line on a bridge.

Notice the tunnel construction site in the background.








The flyunder seen from the south.


----------



## bongo-anders

Even though the Køge Nord station opens in 2018 the works is very advanced.


Access road is getting paved.








The Platform edges has been placed.











THe future S-train platform on the other side of the motorway.


----------



## bongo-anders

The Flyunder seen from the north.













And finally a look towards the new tunnel.


----------



## Sunfuns

So about this Koge North station - what is the concept? For what kind of passenger is it meant? From pictures above it's clear that there is no one living nearby so perhaps only for changing from long distance HS to local commuter trains?


----------



## bongo-anders

Its mostly a interchange station between the S-train and long distance trains but you have Ølsemagle Lyng on the other side of the motorway and Køge municipality plans to build 800-1.000 homes and space for 6-7.000 jobs.

There will also be a park & Ride facility with 2.700 parking places.



Its in danish but then you can look at the pictures 

file:///C:/Users/TDC/Downloads/Kommuneplantill%C3%A6g%20nr%205-19-12-2014-5.pdf


----------



## Silly_Walks

^^
We're not going to hack your computer just to read that pdf


----------



## bongo-anders

Ohh sorry.

I was wondering about it my self but I tried to copy paste it into my browser window (or what's its called) and it showed up on my screen.

I will post the link to that link when I get on my computer, probably tomorrow.


----------



## bongo-anders

Here it is :lol:



http://www.koege.dk/byraad-udvalg/Hoeringer-og-afgoerelser.aspx

Go to Kommuneplantillæg and choose the one with the title vedtaget tillæg nr. 5 something something Køge Nord.


----------



## bongo-anders

Track closures at Ringsted means exciting trains in Køge :lol:

First is a Litra ME diesel locomotive with double decker cars.












Next up was the ICE (ICE TD) to Hamburg, I was lucky and got the ICE in the "IC4" livery












And finally 2 IC3 trainsets coupled together, its the Eurocity connection from Hamburg to Copenhagen.


----------



## bongo-anders

The eastern retaining wall at the flyunder is finished and the skeleton for the western retaining wall is now visible.





Notice the S-train in the background.


----------



## bongo-anders

Some bonus shots from Køge.


----------



## bongo-anders

The outline of the new high speed line is very clear now.


Here from Solrød Byvej, 


The "finished" section is towards the north.


----------



## bongo-anders

Here from Åsvej in Jersie.


What you see is the bridge that will carry Roskildevej over the new railway.


Åsvej will cross under the railway but that project hasn´t started yet.









The railway bridge over the western exit ramps at exit 32 in Køge is still in its early stage but the location is visible because of the crane.





The flyunder looks massive.





The Køge Nord station.


----------



## Coccodrillo

The underpass under construction in these photos seems to be for a single track without electrification only. Is it wise?


----------



## bongo-anders

The main line is on the new bridge over the single track line.

The single track line is the northern part of Lille Syd between Køge and Roskilde, its a rural line with half hourly departures during the day.


http://www.bane.dk/db/filarkiv/16513/Scope of work (stationing 30+450 to 31+200).pdf


From this this part of Lille Syd and down to Næstved the line will be upgraded from 120 km/h to 160 km/h and get electrification.

Its because the trains from Næstved will continue to Copenhagen instead of Roskilde, thats also the reason why they are building the flyunder (or is it a diveunder?) 


The trains from Roskilde will instead continue to Rødvig and Fakse Ladeplads after stopping in Køge.



The bottleneck will be this line.

http://map.krak.dk/m/jLulC

Its a single track line with a single track station in the middle (Ølby station) but it will have 4 trains in every direction each hour.

North there will be 2 Roskilde trains and 2 Copenhagen trains and south there will be 2 trains for Næstved and 2 trains for Rødvig/Fakse Ladeplads.


In the early proposals there was double track all the way to where the lines split but now its only a kilometer or so north of Køge Station.



The virtual map explains a lot.

http://banedanmark.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=5d0eda36a5e345fbb3a8aa6320b6eb59


----------



## Coccodrillo

Maybe a wider underpass is not needed here, but never say never, SBB was happy to find a two track underpass here, 50 years or so after its construction and its use for a single track non electrified line (now double track and electrified).


----------



## bongo-anders

I have seen plans for 4 trains per hour but that was with existing infrastructure.

But I don't see that happening now when the line between Lille Skensved/Køge Nord and Køge will be so crowded.

Its a short line but a very expensive one to expand.

The bridges over Lyngvej and Stensbjergvej has to be expanded, both roads has 4 lanes.

A tunnel under the also 4 lane Københavnsvej wil also have to be made.

Then there is 3 tunnels for pedestrians and cyclists.

And then finally a very complicated construction around Ølby station that is located on a embankment with a building located close to the current platform.


----------



## kalaha

Okay, fair enough, I have only tried the Lint in Denmark and I don't like them compared with NJ's current Desiro.

I have heard, that a CAF train and the Polish Pesa Link was in the contest, and I recently tried an electrical version of the latter in Poland and it was really good.


----------



## AlexNL

I've been in Dutch LINT trains, but compared to the one I've been in Germany there's a remarkable difference. I guess it's down to what the operator chooses, with regards to transmission, engine, etc.


----------



## Never give up

The new Danish traffic minister announces Femern Link postponed to 2024.

He makes it sound as though it´s EU´s fault but in reality it is the fact that Germany can´t modernize and electrify their part of the railway from Puttgarden to Lübeck before 2024.
I hope though they continue with the new Storstrøms bridge in Denmark, as the old one is in such a bad condition that it is almost dangerous to run trains across it.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...ew/ramboell-to-study-vejle-fjord-cut-off.html
> 
> *Rambøll to study Vejle Fjord cut-off*
> 08 Jul 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DENMARK: The national roads directorate has appointed engineering consultancy Rambøll to explore four possible alignments for a high speed rail link across the Vejle Fjord, which would shorten Banedanmark’s main line between Fredericia and Aarhus.
> 
> The project is a key element in the government’s Togfonden DK railway investment programme, which will see the electrification of the main line to northern Jylland and line speed improvements to reduce the journey time between each of the country’s principal cities to 1 h. The current timing for the hourly Lyntog expresses between Odense and Aarhus is 92 min with four intermediate stops
> 
> ...


----------



## bongo-anders

Yet another trackwork near Ringsted means that all trains for Nykøbing F and Hamburg/Berlin are diverted via Køge.


This time its for 1 month.


----------



## bongo-anders

The only usual suspect, Regionstogs Coradia Lint.


----------



## bongo-anders

But where is the S-train?

Køge, Ølby and Jersie has been been without S-train service for abouth one month and will be for one month more before all construction work has been done.


First up is a roadtunnel north of Køge station that will replace a railway crossing just south of the station. 











The railway crossing







And between Ølby and Jersie a tunnel will connect the new Copenhagen Ringsted high speed line with the Lille Syd railway.

When done trains from Næstved will run via Køge and Køge Nord to Copenhagen.


They are also constructing the platforms on the S train line for the Køge Nord station, but I don´t have pictures of that yet.


----------



## bongo-anders

Here are some official pictures of the construction of the railwaybridge over Motorring 4.

http://www.bane.dk/visModulnyhed.asp?artikelID=23017


----------



## Sponsor

Sorry fot off topic...









Who is this green arrow for? Bikes?


----------



## kalaha

No, cars. In case of there is a train crossing the road to the right.


----------



## bongo-anders

The traffic light for cyclist is visible under the lower located traffic lights.


Seconds after I took this picture a double decker train arrived from Nykøbing F so that is the reason why the arrows are activated.


----------



## milipumba

Here are the construction pictures from the 500 meters long bridge.


----------



## bongo-anders

Maybe its just me but isn't that bridge very low?


----------



## kalaha

Well, the clearence profile of the road is 4,63 m and I am sure, that it is fulfilled


----------



## Never give up

One of the 6 remaining class EA electric locomotives, which have just been restored and fitted with push-pull equipment to work DSB's double decker coaches on the regional commuter services between Copenhagen and Ringsted. 
Here, EA 3020, is seen passing the site of a relocated S train station and under the new road access bridge to the new township been developed on the olsd Carlsberg brewery site in Copenhagen.
A paint job at the same time, might have been considered.


----------



## Theijs

Today a Danish newspaper has as heading: 'Partier bag togfond: Vi mangler milliarden'
Does anyone know what's the article about?


----------



## bongo-anders

The Togfonden is based on tax money from the oil and gas from the danish part of the North Sea.


But the price on gas and oil is way lower that than what is estimated when they funded the togfonden.


----------



## Theijs

bongo-anders said:


> The Togfonden is based on tax money from the oil and gas from the danish part of the North Sea. But the price on gas and oil is way lower that than what is estimated when they funded the togfonden.


thank you. Do I understand correctly that this fund is dedicated to upgrade of the rail infrastructure?


----------



## hans280

Theijs said:


> thank you. Do I understand correctly that this fund is dedicated to upgrade of the rail infrastructure?


Yes, that's correct. In addition to the point that Bongo-Anders raised regarding a funding shortfall, politics have also entered into the equation. The previous left-leaning government, which instituted the fund, was very positive toward collective transportation. 

The new right-leaning minority government and their populist support party are much less so. The problem is further compounded by the fact that part of the planned railway upgrade consists of creating bypasses at provincial towns in eastern Jutland where these parties enjoy strong political support. The local mayors are not happy at the prospect of their towns no longer being "compulsory stops" on the intercity railway map.


----------



## LtBk

Do you think DK's new government might scale back or even cancel the upgrades?


----------



## hans280

LtBk said:


> Do you think DK's new government might scale back or even cancel the upgrades?


In my view, yes, it might. By the traditional logics of Danish consensus politics a scale-back is more likely than a cancellation. The train fund agreement was broadly negotiated, precisely with the purpose of making any subsequent government obliged to carry it out. But the new government may wriggle out of parts of the undertaking by arguing that the lack of revenue creates another situation than the one on the basis of which the deal was struck. Its support party, which is essentially a protest party wanting to weaken central government and empower "real folks in local areas", will happily support action against a project that it considers elite-driven and designed to serve the citizens of the nation's 3-4 largest towns.

But let's cool it: this government has a very weak parliamentary base and it is not expected to last for more than a year or two. The climate for long-term investment may look very different a couple of years from now. In the meantime the significant upgades of the railways in the eastern parts of the country continue apace. :cheers:


----------



## TedStriker

Denmark-Germany undersea Fehmarn tunnel gets go-ahead

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33633879


----------



## bongo-anders

Some small updates from around Køge.

Bellingestien will be relocated to the west and a bridge for the railway is about to get constructed.

















Its here.


http://map.krak.dk/m/qiynB




The railway bridge that will spand over the relocated western exit ramps on exit 32 looks more finished.


----------



## bongo-anders

Another tunnel under the railway, this one will be for access to a water reservoir between the railway and the motorway.

Its visible behind the excavator






The railway embankment is clearly visible now.





The flyunder


----------



## Sunfuns

Great updates as always! 

Can you remind us - which if any of the major projects (new lines, electrification, major station rebuilding) currently underway are expected to be finished in 2015 or 2016?


----------



## bongo-anders

I can try.


2015: 
Double track between Vamdrup and Vojens and speed upgrade to 160 km/h (from 120???) on the whole line between Padborg and Taulov.

New station at Langeskov between Odense and Nyborg on the island of Funen.

At Nørreport station a new transfertunnel will open from street level and under the long distance platform that will connect to the metro transfer tunnel.

New Signaling system on the S-train line between Gentofte and Hillerød and some minor track repairs in order to increase the speed.



2016:
New signaling system on the Lille Syd Line between Roskilde - Køge and Næstved.
Speed upgrade to 160 km/h (from 120 km/h) and electrification between Køge Nord and Næstved should be done in 2018.

Electrification between Lunderskov and Esbjerg, the wires are prepared for 200 km/h but I think that the railway is still only 180 km/h.


New signaling system between Langå and Frederikshavn and removal of all railway crossings between Hobro and Aalborg

Also here the top speed will be upgraded from 120 km/h to 200 km/h (Hobro-Aalborg) but that is first in 2018.

New signaling system between Gentofte and Svanemøllen/Ryparken and Hellerup and Klampenborg on the S-train line.


I think thats it for now :lol:


----------



## bongo-anders

I was out on my bike and taking some pictures of the high speed rail construction.



Here at Egedesvej looking north










Here at Åsvej they are constructing a bridge for the railway that will cross over Åsvej here.

In the background the bridge that will carry Roskildevej over the railway looks more and more completed, it will open on next Monday.














Solrød Byvej, first looking north.




Then south.


----------



## bongo-anders

Then we are in Solrød Strand near motorway exit 30.

Here a huge embankment id being constructed and 2 bridges are going to be build close to each other on the intersection between Tåstrupvej, Cementvej and Silovej.



















And know to my biggest disappointment in a long time.


I thought the first floor on Mcdonalds would be the best place to make some photo´s but it turns out that the windows has some glacing to protect from the sun but it isn´t the best for taking photos through.

But I´ll post them anyway. :lol:


----------



## bongo-anders

Here are some railway construction pictures from around Køge taken from a huuuuge Mercedes truck.


First up is the bridge over the future relocated ramps at exit 32.

Sorry for the blurry pictures.







A sneak peak to the S-train platforms at Køge Nord station.


----------



## bongo-anders

The Lille Syd line (Roskilde - Køge - Næstved) is closed for the next 2 months.

They have lots and lots to do.


11 bridges will be replaced
2 bridges will be closed permanently
3 places the tracks will be lowered under existing bridges.
6 bridges will just be renovated
The tracks will be moved sideways over a stretch of 6,8 kilometers
11,2 kilometers of sporløft, track lift or whatever that is.
Miscellaneous trackworks on 1,2 kilometers of track.

And finally Køge Kyst will do some sheet piling for their road tunnel north of Køge station.


But here is an update of one of does miscellaneous trackworks.

A turnout is build some 1,5 kilometers north of Ølby station so its possible to go from the Lille Syd Line to the new high speed line and and the other way round.


----------



## bongo-anders

The latest aerials from Køge Bugt Motorvejen, as usual with lots of railway construction.


Cementvej/Tåstrupvej in Solrød.




Egedesvej





Karlslunde Mosevej, if you look around the car you can see what is about to be a railway bridge.






Karlslunde service station, the weird looking construction site in the middle of the picture.






Mosede Landevej





On the northern part looking south.






Exit 31A Solrød S and the railway crossing under Roskildevej.


----------



## bongo-anders

Kildestien north of Mosede Landevej.






Back at Tåstrupvej.





Skensved Å, the railway bridge over the stream is the white square in the left side of the picture.





Ølsemaglevej




Køge Nord station just north of the dismantled Ølsemaglevej bridge.







Finally an older picture from June showing the crossing of Lille Syd line and the future connecting line to the high speed line.


----------



## bongo-anders

Railway construction near exit 32 on the Køge But Motorway.


----------



## 1993matias

bongo-anders said:


> The Lille Syd line (Roskilde - Køge - Næstved) is closed for the next 2 months.
> [...]
> The tracks will be moved sideways over a stretch of 6,8 kilometers
> [...]


Why will they be moved sideways?


----------



## bongo-anders

The top speed has to raised to 160 km/h so I'm guessing that they are adjusting the tracks for a more smother ride.

Maybe I'm translated it wrong but its not one stretch of 6,8 kilometers, its divided onto all 45 kilometers of construction.


----------



## Swede

So out of the 45 km of the project lengths the tracks will be moved sideways in some parts for a total of 6.8 km length? 
Will it be to straighten out curves and such?

side note: in that last pic, all those flat roofs... solar panels ftw!


----------



## bongo-anders

Yes I think that is correct.

But the line is very straight so there is not that much curves to straighten out.


Most of the work is about the electrification programme and ERTMS-2 installation.


----------



## bongo-anders

North of Køge station they are building double tracks some of the way to Ølby station and also the before mentioned roadtunnel.


----------



## bongo-anders

Construction south of Køge Nord station.


----------



## bongo-anders

The new bridge over Bellingestien, its located just behind the business school at Campus Køge.


----------



## bongo-anders

At the moment there are no platforms on the track to and from the airport.

The current platform will be for trains coming to and from the new high speed line and to and from the central station.
This will happen when a new flyover is build west of the station.

http://www.bane.dk/visBanearbejde.asp?artikelID=20356

But it is planned to relieve the central station by directing trains to the airport instead.

But to do this they both have to build platforms at Ny Ellebjerg on the airport line and expand the airport station with another set of platforms to the north of the current station.

This will make the current track 1 and 2 for Sweden bound train and the new track 3 and 4 will be for Copenhagen and Roskilde (via Ny Ellebjerg) bound trains.


http://www.bane.dk/visBanearbejde.asp?artikelID=13563



Both link I have posted are only in Danish but surely gogle translate can help :lol:


----------



## K_

bongo-anders said:


> At the moment there are no platforms on the track to and from the airport.
> 
> The current platform will be for trains coming to and from the new high speed line and to and from the central station.
> This will happen when a new flyover is build west of the station.
> 
> http://www.bane.dk/visBanearbejde.asp?artikelID=20356
> 
> But it is planned to relieve the central station by directing trains to the airport instead.
> 
> But to do this they both have to build platforms at Ny Ellebjerg on the airport line and expand the airport station with another set of platforms to the north of the current station.
> 
> This will make the current track 1 and 2 for Sweden bound train and the new track 3 and 4 will be for Copenhagen and Roskilde (via Ny Ellebjerg) bound trains.
> 
> 
> http://www.bane.dk/visBanearbejde.asp?artikelID=13563
> 
> 
> 
> Both link I have posted are only in Danish but surely gogle translate can help :lol:


Thanks a lot. I must say I was quite impressed with the Danish railway system. Let's hope they have more luck with their next rolling stock procurement.


----------



## bongo-anders

These pictures is taken from a bus so not ideal for taking photos but you get the idea. :lol:

The tunnel that will lead the tracks from the new high speed line to Lille Syd is finished, now they are building the tunnel under the motorway.








This picture is taken from the new Roskildevej bridge over the new high speed line, here we are looking north towards the bridge under construction at Åsvej




Roskildevej curves to the right so its possible to shoot the bridge at Åsvej from another angle.





The butt ugly station building at Køge station build in the 80´ies is about to get demolished to make way for new homes and shops at the Strædet project in Køge.

New station facilities will be build together with a new bridge spanning the platforms.

The bike rack is about to get removed, the new bike racks will for limited time be located near track 5, a new underground facility will be build using the current transfer tunnel that are going to be replaced by the before mentioned bridge. 










http://www.koegekyst.dk/media/114503/skitseprojekt_for_stationstorvet.pdf


----------



## PiuraBoy

Great job.


----------



## bongo-anders

Railway construction north of Køge.


Sheet piling for both the expanded tunnel for the Lille Syd line and the new railroad.





And from the other side.


----------



## bongo-anders

The railroad bridge over Bellingestien.








And the railwaybridge over the soon to be relocated western ramps on exit 32 at theKøge Bugt motorway.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...amdrup-vojens-track-doubling.html?channel=537
> 
> *Denmark completes track-doubling project*
> Wednesday, September 09, 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _DENMARK marked the completion of a key capacity enhancement project in Jutland on September 7, when transport minister Mr Hans Christian Schmidt officially reopened the Vamdrup - Vojens section of the Fredericia - Padborg line following the completion of a DKr 675m ($US 101m) upgrade_
> 
> The project involved constructing a second track on the 20km stretch and upgrading the line, for 160km/h operation. Construction began in March 2014 and the completion of the project means the entire Fredericia - Tinglev line is now double track.
> 
> The line is an important freight route for traffic between Germany and Sweden, and is also used by international passenger trains from Hamburg to Copenhagen and Aarhus
> 
> ...


----------



## bongo-anders

Finally Banedanmark has done some aerials of the Copenhagen Ringsted high speed line, the others has been from the next door motorway expansion.


Retortvej very close to central Copenhagen.




The railwaybridge over M4.









Near Greve.





Roskildevej






Køge Nord station, both the S-train platforms and long distance platforms are visible.




The new high speed line runs parallel to the old line the last 6 kilometers to Ringsted.


----------



## bongo-anders

The project to upgrade the great belt fixed link to 200 km/h is very cheaper than expected.


The tunnel openings was originally planned to be rebuild but computer simulations has shown that its not necessary.


So its mainly going to be the replacement of wooden sleepers with ones of concrete that is going to cost but its going to be financed by the maintenance budget.

Another huge post is the signaling and radio communication but these are payed by the signaling programme and new nationwide GSM-R radio system.



Status is that there will be a series of clusures in each tunnel because of maintenance of the tracks in the tunnels in the start of this year, in the same time Sund og Bælt will change the wooden sleepers.


The plan is to run some test trains with 230 Km/H in April or May but since Denmark doesn´t have any trains going at that speed I expect that they will hire a German ICE/ICE-T or Swedish X2 train to do the tests.


http://ing.dk/artikel/superlyntog-testes-over-storebaelt-178619


----------



## ramakrishna1984

Good to hear that Denmark has reopened its road and rail links to Germany a day after they were closed to stop migrants from travelling to Sweden.


----------



## Svartmetall

Keep politics out of this thread.


----------



## NordikNerd

The swiss crocodile loco bound for Sweden passes by Høje Taastrup.


----------



## suasion

> Keep politics out of this thread.


Thats a bit harsh. Surely it is relevent to report on line openings/ closures??

I do agree with no politics.


----------



## 00Zy99

Why did the Swiss Crocodile head for Sweden?

Was it because it wanted to hear a SAAB story?

(I'm seriously asking, though)


----------



## NordikNerd

00Zy99 said:


> Why did the Swiss Crocodile head for Sweden?
> 
> Was it because it wanted to hear a SAAB story?
> 
> (I'm seriously asking, though)


Because of the jubilee _100 years of electrical trains_ in Sweden at the swedish railway museum in Gävle.

At first the loco was supposed to be shipped from continental europe via Swinoujscie, Poland, but for some reason they decided to pull it through Denmark, which may have made a few danish trainspotters happy.


----------



## bongo-anders

More high speed rail construction around Køge.

The casting has been removed on the flyunder 






The railway line isn´t as dominant in the landscape as I thought it would be.








Here we are at Ølbyvej.

First we are looking northeast towards exit 32 on the Køge Bugt motorway.




The bridge looks rather small, it doesn´t look like it will fit 2 tracks but I´m sure they know what they are doing. :lol:


----------



## bongo-anders

The new railway line isn´t the first railway line between Køge and Ringsted.


The 33,2 kilometers long line was active from 1917 to 1963 but there are still traces to be seen.


While I was out on my bike I decided to take some photo´s of the old railway line.


----------



## bongo-anders

The 60 kilometer Copenhagen Ringsted high speed line is cheaper than expected.

Most of the money most likely comes from the budget reserve (the article doesn´t specify that) but a 178 million kroner tunnel was counted twice in the budget. !!!!


The Original budget was 11,5 billion kroner but the estimated price is now 8,2 billion.


http://www.bt.dk/danmark/budgetfejl-banedanmark-talte-tunnel-med-to-gange


----------



## hans280

bongo-anders said:


> The 60 kilometer Copenhagen Ringsted high speed line is cheaper than expected.
> 
> Most of the money most likely comes from the budget reserve (the article doesn´t specify that) but a 178 million kroner tunnel was counted twice in the budget. !!!!
> 
> 
> The Original budget was 11,5 billion kroner but the estimated price is now 8,2 billion.


Wow! How on earth did that happen? Even if you add the "extra" bridge to the estimated cost you'd arrive only at 8.4 billion. There's quite some way up to 11.5 billion that was originally budgeted. Of course in some countries (Switzerland are world champions, as far as I know) the public hate negative surprises to such a degree that every estimate is padded to ensure against cost overruns. But.... 3.1 billion kroner??? Something strange is going on here.


----------



## bongo-anders

As far as I know the budget reserve is 30% of the estimated construction price.

Without the 30% reserve the budget would have ended up at 8,05 billions so in reality its 195 millions over the estimated price.


----------



## 00Zy99

Not THAT surprising.

The Milwaukee Road spent 20 YEARS double-entering the debits for their Pacific Division. As a result, it looked like the biggest money drain, when in fact it was the only thing keeping the railroad afloat. The company went bankrupt only a few years after they abandoned the line.


----------



## bongo-anders

bongo-anders said:


> As far as I know the budget reserve is 30% of the estimated construction price.
> 
> Without the 30% reserve the budget would have ended up at 8,05 billions so in reality its 195 millions over the estimated price.



Someone in the Danish subforum told that the estimated price was around 8,7 billion kroner so its actually 500 millions under the estimated price, helped by the almost 200 million kroner tunnel that wasn't there. :lol:


----------



## Svartmetall

Finally got around to processing my videos from Copenhagen Central Station. 

A very impressive station indeed.


----------



## bongo-anders

The railroad tunnel on the Copenhagen - Ringsted high speed line under the Holbæk motorway should be done by next month.

It looked like they have put asphalt on the motorway last weekend when I passed by.


But here is an aerial from August showing the almost finished tunnel.

By relocating the motorway they could cut off 1,5 years of construction work, very impressive.


----------



## bongo-anders

For now the only service will be a once per hour Regionaltog train between Ringe, Odense, Langeskov and Nyborg.

Some Intercity trains will stop but its a very infrequently service, if that is a word. :lol:


----------



## hammersklavier

bongo-anders said:


> Some Intercity trains will stop but its a very infrequently service, if that is a word. :lol:


_Infrequent._ You're modifying the noun, _service_, so you'll want the adjective. "Infrequently" is an adverb and would modify, well, verbs. (And adjectives.)


----------



## bongo-anders

Thank you, its hard to right in another language than your own.

But for some odd reason the first part of my post wasn't added.

I was trying to tell that Langeskov station opened this Sunday and that its a rare occasion that a new station opens here in Denmark.


----------



## 1993matias

InterCity service is a lot to say. It's currently only a few trains in the evening when the regional train is not running any more. But as far as I understand, they will improve a lot with the complete redesign of the timetable this December (not only in Langeskov, but everywhere)


----------



## bongo-anders

Some action around Holbækmotorvejen, all of it is off course because of the new Copenhagen Ringsted high speed line.

First the M4 bridge














The tunnel under Holbækmotorvej at Avedøresletten is now done and the motorway has been moved back to its normal alignment.















And Hvidovretunnellen under/next to the motorway.














And finally Vigerslevvej will soon also be moved back to its original alignment because the kulbanetunnel is finished.


----------



## milipumba

milipumba said:


> The schedule of the first lines to be using the new signaling system, is delayed by about 1.5 years.
> But the final plan is still to be finished this year 2021. (2018 for the s-train).
> 
> The first line on the s-train network, between Hillerød and Gentofte, will start with the new system in January 2016. That is one year after the plan.
> 
> The deployment on the mainline between Langå and Frederikshavn, has been moved back from October 2016 to January 2018.
> 
> And on the line between Roskilde - Køge - Næstved is the deployment date moved back from may 2016 to July-December 2017.
> 
> http://www.bane.dk/visNyhed.asp?artikelID=23622


Some details to the non Danish member.
The new signaling system on the mainlines is the ERTMS Level 2.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Rail_Traffic_Management_System#.27Clean.27_ERTMS_operation

On the s-train network are they installing the system called CTBC. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications-based_train_control


----------



## dj4life

Svartmetall said:


> Finally got around to processing my videos from Copenhagen Central Station.
> 
> A very impressive station indeed.


This station seems to be very nice. The one can get easily irritated when comparing the tidy platforms of CPH C to run-down, dirty ones in STHLM C. :lol:


----------



## AlexNL

Spongebob!!!! (Thanks for the pics bongo-anders, much appreciated!)


----------



## Svartmetall

dj4life said:


> This station seems to be very nice. The one can get easily irritated when comparing the tidy platforms of CPH C to run-down, dirty ones in STHLM C. :lol:


Yeah indeed. The station itself (Stockholm C) is nice, but the platforms are a bit... Blergh. Copenhagen seems to have both in order and really quite a stunning station interior, but a less nice exterior (lots of drunk people and vomit at the entrance near Tivoli when I was there).


----------



## bongo-anders

Kulbanetunnellen on the new high speed line from above.


Hvidovretunnellen starts up at Holbækmotorvejen. 




And looking towards Copenhagen.


----------



## bongo-anders

While the Kulbanetunnel is done they still need alot on the Hvidovretunnel but its done in 1 years time.

Right now they are making the walls (is Secant pile walls translated correct?) and after that they will dig out the tunnel.

The eastern wall was done this summer and the western wall during the winter months.


----------



## bongo-anders

The 2 bridge for the high speed line near exit 32 on the Køge Bugt motorway.


The northern bridge (the more finished one) will cross the relocated exit ramps and the southern bridge the relocated Lyngvej.


----------



## bongo-anders

More pictures of the M4 bridge.




kalaha said:


> Where at a site visit at the TP30 bridge, carrying the new railway line between Copenhagen and Ringsted across Motorring 4 motorway, just west of Copenhagen. Here are a few pictures from the site.


----------



## bongo-anders

The Lille Syd line (Little South) between Roskilde, Køge and Næstved has been closed for 2,5 months in preperation for the electrification, ERTMS-2 installation and upgrade to 160 km/h from 120 km/h


The works that has happened during the closure was replacement of the bridges that are to low for the electrical wires, at other bridges they have just lowered the tracks instead.

The wooden sleepers has been replaced with concrete sleepers.

The have build turnouts and double tracks north of Køge station in preperation of the high speed line.

Also north of Køge station they have done some sheet piling for a road tunnel that will replace a level crossing just south of Køge station, the tunnel will be ready in one years time.








What is left is installation of the catenarys for the electrical wires and I think that ERTMS-2 is needed before they can drive 160 km/h.


----------



## bongo-anders

The before mentioned road tunnel north of Køge station.

It will pass under the S-train tracks (they were closed during the summer), the Lille Syd line (that are double tracked on this part) and the freight terminal.




milipumba said:


> Some tunnel photo´s taken by other people.


----------



## Sunfuns

This line will be reopened only after electrification and installation of ERTMS-2?


----------



## bongo-anders

I will try to explain it

The tracks are back in service for now.


The works that has been done now are only replacement of bridges and new tracks and sleepers. 


For the ERTMS-2 they plan to go online in the second half of 2017, first Roskilde-Køge and finally Køge-Næstved.


Electrification should be done by December 2018 when the Copenhagen-Køge Nord- Ringsted high speed rail line opens.



They haven´t announced any track closures yet but they have talked about using the track closures to both installing the ERTMS-2 and putting up the mast, catenarys and wires.


----------



## AlexNL

Fun fact:










The blue signs with the yellow arrows on them are ETCS Stop Marker Boards, they indicate the end of one ETCS block and the start of the next. They look similar to the Block Marker Boards that the French invented for their TVM signalling system.


----------



## bongo-anders

Well Alstom is building the ERTMS-2 system east of Lillebælt (Funen, Zealand etc.) so it's not a coincidence.


----------



## bongo-anders

A flyover of what the area around Køge Nord will look like in the future.


It will give a better idea of what it is I´m taking photo´s of. :lol:


----------



## K_

AlexNL said:


> Fun fact:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The blue signs with the yellow arrows on them are ETCS Stop Marker Boards, they indicate the end of one ETCS block and the start of the next. They look similar to the Block Marker Boards that the French invented for their TVM signalling system.


Interesting that they created a new sign, that is similar, but not identical. SBB for example just copied the French sign, and so did AFAIK NMBS.


----------



## AlexNL

Yes, and the Dutch did the same for their ETCS equipped lines.

I guess someone found the use of the same sign confusing.


----------



## bongo-anders

While we are talking about the Lille Syd line then I can post a video with the current litra MR trains and the future Litra MQ (Siemens Desiro).

The video is recorded at tracks 6 and 7 at Roskilde station, the old MR is on track 6 (left) and MQ is on track 7.









Other trains in the video are IC4 (litra MG), then a litra MY and MZ diesel locomotives coupled together.

Then we have 4 IC3 trainsets coupled together, litra MF just to make that clear. :lol:

And then finally at least 2 IR4 (litra ER) train sets coupled together.


----------



## K_

AlexNL said:


> Yes, and the Dutch did the same for their ETCS equipped lines.
> 
> I guess someone found the use of the same sign confusing.


I guess so too. Because I recently found this:

http://bahn-seminar.info/Signale/Ne-14-ETCS-Halt-Tafel/

In Switzerland actually both the Triangle and the Arrow signs are actually used. I think the intention here is that the Arrow will be the standard, that will eventually be used on all ETCS lines.


----------



## bongo-anders

In one years time this video will be a blast from the past because in one years time this line will be the first done in the electrification programme.

15 IR4 trainsets will be rebuild for Intercity service so all Intercity trains from Copenhagen to Sønderborg and Esbjerg will be EMU´s.


----------



## bongo-anders

More progress along the railroad construction on the inner part of the Copenhagen - Ringsted high speed line.

The socalled lufthavnsrampen (Airport ramp) that connects the Holbæk motorway to the Motorring 3 in the southbound direction has been relocated and raised 4 meters so the railroad can fit under.

It opened on the 5th of November














The other bridges and tunnels in this project is also very advanced.


The tunnel under Motorring 3 is halfway through the sheet pilling as the southbound lanes is ready for traffic again, now its time to close the northbound lanes until february.

The traffic will then be guided over to the western side of the motorway until they are finished in february.


The bridge over Brøndbyvester Boulevard is finished next summer, besides the bridge they will also lower the road.


----------



## Sunfuns

How long do you think it will take till all the major engineering works (not counting railway infrastructure) are finished? Another year perhaps?


----------



## bongo-anders

I will guess around next summer/fall, the track laying and electrical installation will already start next year so I'm thinking that the bridge/tunnels etc will be done by then.


----------



## bongo-anders

Construction work around Cementvej/Tåstrupvej in Solrød Strand on the high speed line.


Its the new railwaybridge over Cementvej that is so advanced that the relocated road is opened, the roundabout at Cementvej and Tåstrupvej is also done.


----------



## bongo-anders

Up to 0,5 meters of snow on Zealand disrupted traintraffic in and out of Copenhagen as threes felt down on the power lines etc etc.


----------



## Swede

50cm is quite a lot of snow. Even if it had fallen up here we'd be kinda amazed about it. 50cm from a single storm, let alone in November? woah.


----------



## bongo-anders

It was crazy, a friend of mine who got home from Egypt Saturday evening used over 3 hours from the airport but it should normally be done in 1 hours or so.


----------



## bongo-anders

A video of the before mentioned snowfall has gone viral.


http://vejret.tv2.dk/2015-11-23-video-af-ekstremt-snevejr-i-roskilde-gaar-jorden-rundt-paa-facebook


----------



## bongo-anders

They have begun to lay ballast on the Copenhagen-Ringsted high speed line.


First we are between Tåstrupvej and Solrød Byvej.


----------



## bongo-anders

The future Køge Nord station.














This bridge will eventually also spand the railway





The dive under south of Køge Nord station


----------



## bongo-anders

Last up is the 2 railroad bridges at Lyngvej and exit 32 on the motorway.


----------



## Never give up

Denmark approves Ringsted-Nykøbing Fl. upgrade in advance of the Femern Link between Denmark and Germany.

http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...es-ringsted-nykobing-upgrade.html?channel=537


----------



## bongo-anders

A Siemens Taurus locomotive have set a new speed record on rail in Denmark.

The top speed was 235,8 km/h and was achieved on Vestbroen on Storebælt.

http://www.transportweekly.com/pages/en/news/articles/123583/


----------



## kapo311

What is the purpose (is it still in use?) of the track that runs from Østerport until somewhere near Bisperbjerg station, passing underneath the S-train and Kystbane tracks after Nordhavn?


----------



## bongo-anders

In old times there was a freight yard near Bispebjerg but now its mostly the traditional steam train trip called rundt om husene (Around the houses).


From around 4:30 in this video.








Or around 0:50 in this video.


----------



## bongo-anders

The railway bridge on the Copenhagen-Ringsted high speed line over Bellingestien near Campus Køge is done, now only the pavement needs to be done.


----------



## bongo-anders

Aerials of Køge Nord station taken in February.


----------



## Sunfuns

Wow, as is it looks like the very definition of beet root station... 

How about the electrification work to Esbjerg? Is the date for the start of electric service already known?


----------



## bongo-anders

How many beet root stations (whatever that is) has a catchment area of 5,663 people (as per 1. January 2016) and 1.100 new homes and 5-6.000 planned working places planned next to it.

There is also 2.800 park and ride parking spots planned and the first 800 will be ready when the station opens in 2018.


Lunderskov-Esbjerg opens by the end of 2016, other sources says second half of 2016.


----------



## Sunfuns

I only wrote it because from that areal picture I see no access to it and very little housing or commercial development within walking distance. Perhaps it will be a completely different picture in 2018...


----------



## bongo-anders

Maybe this help 

Directly to the north there is a huge marsh area called Jersie Mose so that area will never be build and in the other area Rishøj Idrætscenter is also visible with alot of green area for football pitches.


About access, there will be a bicycle/pedestrian access from Scandinaviskk Transportcenter/Campus Køge and one from Ølsemagle Lyng.

A huge 200 meter pedestrian bridge will spand the S-train platforms, the motorway and the 2 long distance platforms, it will also connect to Ølsemagle Lyng in the eastern end and Ølsemagle and Køge Nord in the western end.

There will be road access from Ølsemagle via the Nordstjernen road and Lille Skensved, the motorway and Ølsemalgle Lyng from Egedesvej.


https://www.google.dk/maps/place/No...2!3m1!1s0x4652f137ec45c161:0x3cbee66f2b9e4847


Or look here, click on "Se forslag til lokalplan 1046...."

http://www.koege.dk/Service/Nyheder/2015/04/Lokalplanforslag-1046-i-hoering.aspx


----------



## bongo-anders

April aerials from the high speed line.


The Kulbanetunnel




Brøndbyøstervej bridge and the tunnel under Holbækmotorvejen.






The route through Vestvolden.






The M4 bridge 






The Cementvej and Tåstrupvej bridges in Solrød.






Exit 32 in Køge with the new exit ramps and new Lyngvej bridge under construction.






The railway crosses the Vestmotorvejen somewhere east of Ringsted and Kværkeby.






Here the railroad meets up with the old mainline a few kilometers east of Ringsted.


----------



## bongo-anders

The northern end of the high speed line at Retortvej in Valby.




Hafnia said:


> Work in progress for the KBH-Ringsted high-speed train at Retortvej.
> 
> Toward East.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toward West.


----------



## bongo-anders

The first railway sleepers has arrived at Køge Nord station.










On the eastern side of the station where the S-train platforms are located it looks like this.




















Not much has happened from February but you get the April aerials anyway, well the sleepers seems to have arrived after the photo was taken.


----------



## bongo-anders

2 things we are proud of in Denmark Tuborg (and for some Carlsberg) and the Royal family. :cheers:










And some action around Køge with Regionstog Coradia Lint, DSB Litra MR, DSB S-train Litra SE (3rd generation) and historical train from ØSJK (Østsjællands Jernbaneklub)


----------



## bongo-anders

Updates around the bridges in Solrød.


First the Cementvej bridge










Then the Tåstrupvej bridge.


----------



## bongo-anders

Further south at Jersie the railroad crosses over Åsvej and under Roskildevej.



Just west of the motorway exit 31A the railroad crosses under Roskildevej.











And finally the bridge over Åsvej just a few 100 meters north of Roskildevej.


----------



## bongo-anders

The massive railroad bridge that is under construction over the M4 motorway.


----------



## bongo-anders

New updates on the Copenhagen - Ringsted high speed line.

At the new railway bridge over Åsvej in Jersie they have started to build the access road, that means that the road is narrowed to one lane atm.














A few kilometers further south they are working on the finishing touches to the Ølsemaglevej bridge.


----------



## bongo-anders

There is lots on concrete work around exit 32 at the moment.

The big bridge over the motorway was cast last week and it looked like they where doing that at the railway bridge over Lyngvej today.

The last bridge over the western on and off ramps on the motorway just looks like it need to have the scaffolding removed.























The pedestrian tunnel under the old part of Lyngvej is now demolished.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...nish-investment-plans-to-be-chopped-back.html
> 
> *Danish investment plans to be chopped back*
> 19 May 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DENMARK: The new government is expected to stop work on many of the railway upgrading projects approved by the former coalition government in 2014, according to local news reports. National broadcaster DR has obtained a briefing note from the finance ministry which casts doubt over the government’s ability to fund the DKr28·5bn programme.
> 
> The Togfonden DK package announced in March 2013 by the then Transport Minister Henrik Dam Kristensen was aimed at cutting journey times between the country’s principal cities to 1 h and enhancing capacity across the network to support economic development. Making rail more competitive with road and electrifying much of the Banedanmark network would improve environmental sustainability, while creating up to 20 000 jobs. However, the package was to be funded through North Sea oil revenues and the recent fall in oil prices has reduced the amount of funding available
> 
> ...


----------



## Never give up

dimlys1994 said:


> From Railway Gazette:


It might not be quite as bad as it looks.

The "new" government consists of a small minority government which is dependent on the support of other conservative/liberal/right wing parties, one of which was part in the "Togfonden" agreement. Ironically, many of the projects which they want to drop, affect their political base in the more lightly populated areas of the country

The final result will depend on to which extent this party will break the deal in exchange for some immigrant restrictions, or just postpone some of the projects.

The government would prefer to use any surplus money on tax cuts and road improvements. You have all heard this story before, in other countries. hno:


----------



## hans280

Never give up said:


> The "new" government consists of a small minority government which is dependent on the support of other conservative/liberal/right wing parties, one of which was part in the "Togfonden" agreement. Ironically, many of the projects which they want to drop, affect their political base in the more lightly populated areas of the country.


Yes, but there may be a bit more to it than that. The governing party (the liberal-conservative Venstre) has had trouble with several of its mayors because some smaller provincial towns are slated to be bypassed by the new, faster connection between the four largest cities. In this sense too they might be slightly relieved to see the issue just go away.


----------



## bongo-anders

May aerials from Banedanmark of the Copenhagen-Ringsted high speed line.


They have started to to put the roof on the Hvidovretunnelen, the job should be finished in August.




And a little bit further south at Karlslunde Resteplads the bridge over Karlstrup Møllebæk, also this work should be done in August.






Køge Nord station.




















The Ølsemagle bridge will open tomorrow at 14:00, expect some pictures from me no later than Wednesday. 






The Ejbyvej bridge opened for traffic back in May 23rd.





Adamshøjvej broen near Ringsted before it was demolished.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...nstruction-contracts-awarded.html?channel=537
> 
> *Fehmarn Belt construction contracts awarded*
> Tuesday, May 31, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _FEMERN, the organistion responsible for constructing the 18km Fehmarn Belt road-rail tunnel between Rødby, Denmark, and Puttgarden, Germany, has signed four major construction contracts worth almost DKr 30bn ($US 4.5bn) to two consortia_
> 
> "We're pleased that, after a number of years of preparation and a tendering process, contracts have now been signed with the winning contractor consortia," says Femern's CEO Mr Claus Baunkjær. "As a result, our prime focus is now on obtaining German approval, which is a condition for getting construction underway"
> 
> ...


----------



## bongo-anders

As promised I visited the new Ølsemagle bridge this evening.


One thing I noticed is that the tracks to and from the Lille Syd line goes into a very sharp curve, especially the track to Lille Syd.


----------



## 1993matias

Thanks for the pictures 


bongo-anders said:


> As promised I visited the new Ølsemagle bridge this evening.
> [...]


It already got graffiti? Amazing... hno:


----------



## bongo-anders

Then you should see the bridge near Campus Køge. hno:


----------



## bongo-anders

The railway bridge over Taastrupvej in Solrød Strand.


----------



## bongo-anders

June aerials from the Copenhagen Ringsted high speed line.


Preperation for the flyover near Ny Ellebjerg is in full swing.





The part through the Vestvolden Fortress and the M3 motorway, here we are looking west out of Copenhagen.




The M4 bridge, now looking east towards Copenhagen.




The bridge over Taastrupvej in Solrød, this picture is already obsolete as the bridge has been casted this weekend so the skeleton should be on way down.




Køge Nord as always.




Exit 32 at Køge with the 2 railway bridges that are finished.

The new exit ramps on the western side are almost done, its only the part under the northern bridge that are missing.

The huge bridge over the motorway should be done in august. 




The Kongsted tunnel.


----------



## Never give up

From International Railway Journal.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/europe/denmark-approves-new-storstrom-bridge.html?channel=537
> 
> *Denmark approves new Storstrøm Bridge*
> Wednesday, July 06, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _THE Danish parliament has agreed by a large majority to fund construction of a new road and rail bridge between the islands of Zealand and Masnedø, which will be part of the hinterland link from Copenhagen to the Fehmarn Belt tunnel_
> 
> With funding agreed, construction is expected to begin on the 4km bridge next year with opening scheduled for 2022
> 
> ...


----------



## Swede

Isn't that bridge going to go from Sjælland to Falster via Masnedø? A 4 km bridge from Sjælland to Masnedø doesn't make sense to me.


----------



## bongo-anders

Maybe its takes a loop or 2 :lol:

No its off course from Madsnedø to Falster, a much smaller bridge will connect Sjælland/Zealand with Madsnedø


----------



## bongo-anders

For some reason I have been at the service station at Karlslunde to follow the construction of the high speed railway there.

AS you have seen the railway goes along the motorway on almost the entire route and here its passing by the western service station very close to it.


----------



## bongo-anders

Update on the bridge over Karlstrup Møllebæk behind Karlsunde service station.


----------



## bongo-anders

The bridge over Tåstrupvej in Solrød is also in a very advanced stage.


----------



## 00Zy99

Hah. Hi there, Ronald. (the golden arches is still hanging on)


----------



## bongo-anders

Around Køge Nord station and the flyover.


----------



## bongo-anders

The reconstruction of Køge station has begun and will finish in late 2017.

The other work is renovation of the tracks, catenary poles and some bridges on the Køge Bugt banen on the Copenhagen S-train system.


----------



## bongo-anders

The first tracks are up at Køge Nord station.

It was raining so the pictures aren´t that clear.


----------



## bongo-anders

While the main focus on this thread has been on the construction if the high speed line between Copenhagen and Ringsted something has happened on the line between Lunderskov and Esbjerg.


On this thread on Jernbanen.dk (The railway) there are new photos on the construction of the catenary poles for the electrification programme.

http://www.jernbanen.dk/forum/index.php?mode=thread&id=111690


----------



## Sunfuns

Are they still on schedule for an electric service by the end of the year? I believe that was the original plan.


----------



## Nexis

*Führerstandsmitfahrt Dänemark: Sønderborg nach Tinglev*


----------



## bongo-anders

Sprechen sie talk :lol:


The follow up to that video is here, it goes from Tinglev to Fredericia so its possible to see the new double track between Vamdrup and Vojens.


----------



## bongo-anders

Sunfuns said:


> Are they still on schedule for an electric service by the end of the year? I believe that was the original plan.


Sorry I missed your post.

Yes the plan is still to start operation when the new schedule starts in December.


----------



## bongo-anders

On the Copenhagen Ringsted line they have finished the 3 bridges on and next to the M3 motorway.

Banedanmark has taken these photos.


----------



## bongo-anders

In northern Køge The work on the embankment between the bridge over Lyngvej and bellingestien seems to be in full swing.











The bridges over Lyngvej and the western ramps on exit 32 on the Køge Bugt motorway.














At Køge Nord we now has tracks on the 2 outer platforms.








Looking south towards the flyover.












And on the 2 weeks delayed construction on the Køge Bugt railway they have installed the new tracks but still lacks the ballast.


----------



## telemaxx

Hey there,

is there a plan which train lines will use the high speed line? Which trains will they use? And when the upgraded part to Rodby is finished, what trains will ride from and to Germany?


----------



## Harbornite

*[DK] Danish railways to order 26 electric locomotives*



> uring our last visit to Copenhagen, we were negatively surprised by all the black smoke the old ME series diesel locomotives are allowed to produce in the city's underground S-Bahnstations. Time for a more healthy and environmentally friendly solution. And it will come:
> 
> Today the Danish state railways (DSB) published that its board of directors have approved the plan for the purchase of 26 new electric locomotives. These will replace the locomotives currently used pulling DSB's double deck trains (type Bombardier Twindexx, now mostly pulled by the ME diesels) and they will pull regional trains in the Sjælland area.
> The new machine should be of a standard design, which has already proven itself in everyday service. This autumn DSB wants to commence the selection procedure. The first new electrics then should arrive in 2020. The order is a first step in reducing DSB's dependency on the unreliable IC2/IC4 electric diesel trains and increasing the number of electric trains in the country. New electric articulated trains will be purchased too.


http://www.railcolor.net/index.php?nav=1405330&id=9173&action=dview


----------



## bongo-anders

Diesel trains on the S-train stations!!!! This article is funny.

Perhaps they were at the long distance platform at Nørreport. 




The plan is as followed. 

Electrify Lille Syd from Køge Nord to Næstved and the high speed line in 2018, Roskilde to Kalundborg in 2022 and the line to Fehmarn somewhere between 2020 and 2024

That last timeline is not done yet because they will wait to put the wires up when they know when the new Storestrøm Bridge opens. 


Østbanen that now runs from Køge to the Stevns Peninsula will take over the northern part of Lille Syd between Køge and Roskilde so this part will still use diesel trains. 

All other lines on Sjælland/Zealand will then be under wire and that means no diesel trains in the boulevard tunnel from Østerport to the central station.


On the line from Næstved over Køge Nord to Copenhagen that are ready in 2018 i have heard that they will use the litra ER emu's that currently runs on Kystbanen but Øresundstog will have to get some new trains and these that they are renting from DSB will then be delivered back.


But lets see what happens.


----------



## bongo-anders

The latest news is that DSB will run with the ME diesel locomotives and double decker wagons from Næstved to Copenhagen until the new electric locomotives are ready in 2020.

So the line will under wire but the train will be diesel. hno:


----------



## 1993matias

bongo-anders said:


> [...]
> On the line from Næstved over Køge Nord to Copenhagen that are ready in 2018 i have heard that they will use the litra ER emu's that currently runs on Kystbanen but Øresundstog will have to get some new trains and these that they are renting from DSB will then be delivered back.
> [...]


Wait, that means we might one day see the Øresundstog in national traffic? Or will they just get repurposed on Kystbanen to free a few more ER?


----------



## bongo-anders

No the Øresundstog are Litra ET 

Litra ER is also known as IR4 (Interregionaltog 4 as in 4 wagons) and is related to the IC3 trains.

Litra ER runs between Nivå and Copenhagen Airport and some of them will replace the IC3 trains on the intercity service between Copenhagen and Esbjerg when that line is electrified by the end of this year.


But I have done some digging and found out that DSB now will use the ME locomotives and double decker wagons between Næstved Køge and Copenhagen until the first electric locomotives are in service by 2020.


So they will build a new line and electrify the line from Køge Nord to Næstved but use Diesels locomotives the first 2 years hno:


----------



## bongo-anders

They have removed the support under the railway bridge over Taastrupvej in Solrød so now it looks like a real bridge.
























At the Køge Nord station the track laying has progressed further north.


First looking north from Egedesvej.







And south towards Køge Nord station.


----------



## bongo-anders

Progress around exit 32 at Køge Bugt motorvejen with the 2 railway bridges


What´s worth noticing is that the railway embankment between the bridges is rising steadily and is not far from reaching the same hight as the bridges.


----------



## milipumba

More tracks being laid at Køge nord station.
This time it is the side track for freight trains, between the other tracks.


----------



## bongo-anders

Sorry, here´s a another post about more tracks at Køge Nord but right now its the most visible construction site at the high speed line as all the bridges are almost completed.

I will try to get closer to the 2 railway bridges at exit 32 on the Køge Bugt motorway because the embankments that are up to 10 meters high is growing steadily up to the full hight.

Hopefully it will be on Wednesday or Thursday.


----------



## Sunfuns

Will there be no station structure of any kind here?


----------



## bongo-anders

Yes there will.

Look here

http://koegenordstation.dk/


----------



## Sunfuns

bongo-anders said:


> Yes there will.
> 
> Look here
> 
> http://koegenordstation.dk/


That looks so fancy that it's kind of difficult to imagine reality. The basic idea of a station perpendicular and above the tracks is clear, though.


----------



## Nikolaj

bongo-anders said:


> I think you need to update yourself on the danish railway infrastructure.
> 
> The plans until around 2025 looks like this.
> 
> Copenhagen - Ringsted will be build for 250 km/h
> Ringsted - Fehmarn will be upgraded to 200 km/h
> Ringsted - Odense will be upgraded to 200 km/h
> Odense - Middelfart, newbuild for 250 km/h
> Fredericia - Aarhus, speed upgrades, currently its 180´ish so I´m guessing 200 km/h
> 
> Also between Fredericia and Aarhus
> New crossing of Vejle Fjord 200 km/h?????
> Hovedgård - Hasselager newbuild for 250 km/h
> 
> Aarhus - Hobro, speed upgrades from 140 km/h to maybe 160 or 200 km/h
> Hobro - Aalborg to 200 km/h
> 
> 
> On the Esbjerg - Lunderskov line the electrification is prepared for 200 km/h but the line is still only 140 km/h (180 km/h for IC3 etc)


A slight correction: the new sections across Western Funen (Odense-Middelfart, across Vejle Fjord and Hovedgård-Hasselager are designed for 300 km/h but will only be equipped for 250 km/h (if they get funded). All other upgrades will officially be 200 km/h, including Aarhus-Hobro. However that does not mean that speed will be 200 km/h for most of the sections, but only that on certain parts (the fewest) the max speed can be up to 200 km/h


----------



## hans280

Nikolaj said:


> A slight correction: the new sections across Western Funen (Odense-Middelfart, across Vejle Fjord and Hovedgård-Hasselager are designed for 300 km/h but will only be equipped for 250 km/h (if they get funded). All other upgrades will officially be 200 km/h, including Aarhus-Hobro. However that does not mean that speed will be 200 km/h for most of the sections, but only that on certain parts (the fewest) the max speed can be up to 200 km/h


Interesting. Are you sure it will actually be equipped for 250 km/h? Is there a source? I am a bit sceptical (apologies for being a spoilsport), because when they first started on the Copenhagen-Ringsted line the Danish press reported that while this line would be enabled for 250 km/h but initially equipped only for 200 km/h. (Bongo-anders seems to think that they have changed tack since then.) There was a lot of bitterness on Swedish discussion boards at the time, because people there thought this Danish lack of ambition compared poorly with the high 300+ km/h ambitions of their "Europakorridoren". The accusation was thrown about that the Danish authorities keep mentioning 250 km/h only to qualify for enhanced EU support (which cuts it if a newbuilt line is 'high speed' which they define at 250 km/h). I was sort-of convinced by the argument, because the EU's second threshold is track renovation to enable 200 km/h - a number we also hear a lot from the Danish railway authorities. - But I'll be happy to learn that I was mistaken.


----------



## bongo-anders

I can provide the link later on :lol:

But else go to bane.dk.
Choose the Copenhagen Ringsted page, go to contractors and choose TP70 and scope of work.


But the reasoning was something like that the extra cost of building towards af top speed of 250 was very little and if they did it after the track was opened for traffic it will disrupt the traffic.


----------



## bongo-anders

That is correct, the lines are prepared for 300 Km/h (curve etc) but is it correct that above 249 km/h there are more regulations and rules for safety and signaling and so on.

That could explain why they will keep it at 249/250 at first.


----------



## hans280

^^It also explains why Siemens' new ICE4 has Vmax at an improbable 249 km/h. :lol:


----------



## hans280

bongo-anders said:


> I can provide the link later on :lol:
> 
> But else go to bane.dk.
> Choose the Copenhagen Ringsted page, go to contractors and choose TP70 and scope of work.
> 
> 
> But the reasoning was something like that the extra cost of building towards af top speed of 250 was very little and if they did it after the track was opened for traffic it will disrupt the traffic.


I'm aware of Banedanmark's information site. But thanks for pointing me to the tendering documents. I had previously only looked at the project information directly posted by the agency. 

That said, the information is not news to me. I know full well that the line itself will be enabled for 250 km/h. My point is, from what I have read, during the first several years of operation only speeds of 200 km/h will be permitted, and if Vmax is to be raised to 250 km/h some (limited) additional investment will be needed.


----------



## bongo-anders

I don't have a link but as a part of the hour model (timemodelen) they decided to make it 250 from the start.


----------



## bongo-anders

Hector rail has tested the Siemens Vectron in Denmark and since its one of the contenders for the locomotives for the Zealand traffic its fun to see it in its probably future habitat.


----------



## touya

bongo-anders said:


> That is correct, the lines are prepared for 300 Km/h (curve etc) but is it correct that above 249 km/h there are more regulations and rules for safety and signaling and so on.


Can someone elaborate on this? It's news for me. 
Or, rather, I don't understand, the infrastructure's physical design allowing 300km/h, why one would limit it with the signaling considering that ERTMS Level 2 supports both equivalently. 
Denmark already declared they're moving the entire network to ERTMS Level 2.

Could instead the reason be that 250km/h allows for better compatibility with freight train paths?


----------



## 00Zy99

Yes, and there's the fact that there isn't any 300 kph stock available, and new ones can be pricey.


----------



## bongo-anders

Its a good reason why they will limit the speed to 249/250 if the tracks can handle 300.


----------



## bongo-anders

So I was on a 35 kilometer tour de bridge and here is the result.


First up is Karlslunde Mosevej












The Taastrupvej bridge.




















The Åsvej bridge with the Roskildevej bridge in the background.


----------



## bongo-anders

The Højelsevej bridge.





The future siding for outbound trains is visible to the left.









Ølbyvej bridge.


----------



## bongo-anders

At the 3 railway bridges around exit 32 the embankments are almost ready.








'


----------



## bongo-anders

Construction of Køge Nord station has started.


----------



## Never give up

The complicated M4 railway bridge for the Copenhagen-Ringsted high speed line, across merging motorways, is now complete.


----------



## 00Zy99

Where's the McDonald's?


----------



## hans280

00Zy99 said:


> Where's the McDonald's?


In Glencoe. The sun niverrr shines.... :lol:


----------



## superscrapermaniac

very interesting, really :O


----------



## Nikolaj

touya said:


> Can someone elaborate on this? It's news for me.
> Or, rather, I don't understand, the infrastructure's physical design allowing 300km/h, why one would limit it with the signaling considering that ERTMS Level 2 supports both equivalently.
> Denmark already declared they're moving the entire network to ERTMS Level 2.
> 
> Could instead the reason be that 250km/h allows for better compatibility with freight train paths?


I think there is 2 main reasons for choosing to design (curves etc.) for 300 km/h but only equipping them initially for 250 km/h:
1) Some of the sections are rather short (hence 300 km/h can only be reached shortly), but could prolonged/connected in the future. Connection of the Western Funen section and the Vejle Fjord section is the best example, where a connection, including a new Little Belt Crossing has been examined in some details http://www.trm.dk/da/publikationer/2013/lillebaelt-ny-bane--og-vejforbindelse
2) No current plan to purchase trains capable of 300 km/h.


----------



## 00Zy99

hans280 said:


> In Glencoe. The sun niverrr shines.... :lol:


???

I don't get it. Where is Glencoe anyway?


----------



## bongo-anders

00Zy99 said:


> Where's the McDonald's?


Right here 

https://www.google.dk/maps/place/Mc...x13b3d96623cd5c1b!8m2!3d55.545611!4d12.214648


----------



## milipumba

Here is a 13 minutes long video about the new high speed railroad, from Copenhagen to Ringsted. 
http://www.tv2lorry.dk/nyheder/25-0...besoger-hojhastighedsbanen?***********#player


----------



## milipumba

@Hans280
Watch this video for information about the top speed, for this line.


----------



## hans280

^^Thanks. Yes, they now speak openly of 250 km/h, limited only by the top speed of the available rolling stock. This is a clear change from 5-6 years ago when the word was that the line could "eventually" be upgraded to this speed. That's good news - which no doubt is connected with the decision to upgrade the legacy line from Ringsted to Fehmarn to 200 km/h (at first the talk was of 160 km/h only). The Danes are rolling!


----------



## thomasKing

hans280 said:


> ^^Thanks. Yes, they now speak openly of 250 km/h, limited only by the top speed of the available rolling stock. This is a clear change from 5-6 years ago when the word was that the line could "eventually" be upgraded to this speed. That's good news - which no doubt is connected with the decision to upgrade the legacy line from Ringsted to Fehmarn to 200 km/h (at first the talk was of 160 km/h only). The Danes are rolling!


You are right, it is a change. There was no real interest in 250 kph before the hour-plan introduced in Togfonden brought it back. It will probably happen but its not a certainty. The danish state railways, DSB, are opposed to it, claiming excessice cost for little gain, having to buy and maintain new types of trains. It also seems stupid to me. Doing 250 on the new stretches will only cut 5 minutes from the main two-hour link between Aarhus and Copenhagen and likely lose 1-2 minutes because of slower acceleration. 

Togfonden is not on hold. It rests on a solid majority which has agreed to find the money lacking from lower-than-expected oil tax revenues. They have split the project in two phases with phase two being delayed three years, I think, Likely hoping that phase two can be partly financed from phase one coming in under budget, which is quite likely. A recent minor railway project was completed 20% cheaper than budgetted. Additional funding may be found from earlier agreements on annual pools of money for infrastructure. 

The biggest threat is probably the current minority government trying to become part of a re-negotiated Togfonden deal, including cuts. I doubt there will be any significant cuts. It would be difficult to do.


----------



## bongo-anders

2 beautiful GM diesel locomotives, the Litra MY parked in Køge.








And what I suppose is the track laying trains for the high speed line.


----------



## hans280

thomasKing said:


> The danish state railways, DSB, are opposed to it, claiming excessice cost for little gain, having to buy and maintain new types of trains. It also seems stupid to me. Doing 250 on the new stretches will only cut 5 minutes from the main two-hour link between Aarhus and Copenhagen and likely lose 1-2 minutes because of slower acceleration.


DSB would probably have preferred the new line to be subject to a speed limitation to 200 kph. (Come to think: maybe that's why they initially planned it thus?) Neighbouring Sweden and Germany already have trains doing 250 kph, and with the gradual liberalisation of network access they'll sooner or later be competing within Denmark. From the viewpoint of DSB this puts them in a bind. :lol:


----------



## NordikNerd

hans280 said:


> DSB would probably have preferred the new line to be subject to a speed limitation to 200 kph. (Come to think: maybe that's why they initially planned it thus?) Neighbouring Sweden and Germany already have trains doing 250 kph, and with the gradual liberalisation of network access they'll sooner or later be competing within Denmark. From the viewpoint of DSB this puts them in a bind. :lol:


The topspeed on swedish railway tracks is 200km/h not 250km/h.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

^^ Botniabanan can technically allow speeds of up to 250 km/h, it's just that the trains are only capable of 200 km/h. That being said, Botniabanan has little relevance to Denmark


----------



## hans280

^^Sweden has already experimented with train speeds up to 300 kph (the "green train"). Speeds of 250 kph in ordinary traffic cannot be far off?


----------



## Robi_damian

bongo-anders said:


>


Ar catenary polls in Denmark painted that brown-red colour on purpose? They look like they have rust on them.


----------



## 00Zy99

There is a special steel/paint combination that "bakes" a layer of rust on that actually protects the structure from damage.

That said, they may just be in shadow.


----------



## Robi_damian

00Zy99 said:


> There is a special steel/paint combination that "bakes" a layer of rust on that actually protects the structure from damage.
> 
> That said, they may just be in shadow.


Thanks!

I doubt it is just a shadow, as I have seen the colour before, and only in Denmark.


----------



## milipumba

It's called corten steel. 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weathering_steel


----------



## thomasKing

hans280 said:


> DSB would probably have preferred the new line to be subject to a speed limitation to 200 kph. (Come to think: maybe that's why they initially planned it thus?) Neighbouring Sweden and Germany already have trains doing 250 kph, and with the gradual liberalisation of network access they'll sooner or later be competing within Denmark. From the viewpoint of DSB this puts them in a bind. :lol:


Yes they would have preferred 200 kph. As would I. Its the max limit on existing lines and it isnt worth much chasing extra speed. High-speed rail is oddly fascinating for some people but expensive and irrelevant for the vast majority of passengers.


----------



## hans280

thomasKing said:


> Yes they would have preferred 200 kph. As would I. Its the max limit on existing lines and it isnt worth much chasing extra speed. High-speed rail is oddly fascinating for some people but expensive and irrelevant for the vast majority of passengers.


In the case of Denmark I might agree. Living in France, as I do, I can assure you that the difference between 200 kph and true high-speed is significant when the inter-regional trains cover distances of 500-700 km. Your point about "the vast majority of passengers" is moreover IMO a bit flippant. The vast majority of passengers are using trains for a relatively short daily commute and, yes, HS lines are irrelevant for their purposes. But does this imply that one shouldn't invest in a strong long-distance rail network as well? 

The Belgians initially made similar arguments about HS rail: their country is small (the size of Jutland, I believe), so why should they be expected to invest in 300 kph lines as opposed to a more pragmatic approach? However, the Belgian railways are part of a larger long-distance network tying together Paris, London, Amsterdam and the German industrial heartland. The speed on intra-Belgian lines was not just about freighting people from Brussels to Antwerp, and in the end the Belgian authorities yielded to the pressure. In the case of Denmark this is unlikely to happen, because the southern neighbour is Germany. The Germans are reluctant to go all-out on HS, and insofar as they are willing to invest in railways their main priority seems to be the east-west connections rather than their relatively unpopulated north. In other words, truly HS solutions are not necessarily needed for domestic Danish purposes, and there's no cross-country considerations altering that calculation.


----------



## bongo-anders

Progress on Lunderskov-Esbjerg.


----------



## Gag Halfrunt

The mysterious IC4 in Libya is still there, sitting on the three kilometre fragment of track in Tripoli.


----------



## The Polwoman

hans280 said:


> In the case of Denmark I might agree. Living in France, as I do, I can assure you that the difference between 200 kph and true high-speed is significant when the inter-regional trains cover distances of 500-700 km. Your point about "the vast majority of passengers" is moreover IMO a bit flippant. The vast majority of passengers are using trains for a relatively short daily commute and, yes, HS lines are irrelevant for their purposes. But does this imply that one shouldn't invest in a strong long-distance rail network as well?
> 
> The Belgians initially made similar arguments about HS rail: their country is small (the size of Jutland, I believe), so why should they be expected to invest in 300 kph lines as opposed to a more pragmatic approach? However, the Belgian railways are part of a larger long-distance network tying together Paris, London, Amsterdam and the German industrial heartland. The speed on intra-Belgian lines was not just about freighting people from Brussels to Antwerp, and in the end the Belgian authorities yielded to the pressure. In the case of Denmark this is unlikely to happen, because the southern neighbour is Germany. The Germans are reluctant to go all-out on HS, and insofar as they are willing to invest in railways their main priority seems to be the east-west connections rather than their relatively unpopulated north. In other words, truly HS solutions are not necessarily needed for domestic Danish purposes, and there's no cross-country considerations altering that calculation.


The contrasting thoughts, in combination with the price tag of our first and only HST line, necked further plans in the Netherlands. It is indeed *very *important to look further than the existing stream of passengers. Many people here see Amsterdam just as a terminus of international traffic, and use that stupid pretext to prevent an HST or even any speed improvement to Germany. No, even within our borders. However, we MUST look further! 

Reducing our travel times by increasing maximum speeds to 160 or 200, let alone to 250 or 300 on longer distances can make the crucial difference within a few minutes: the first category between 60 and 90 minutes, which ultimately decides people from the Gelderland (Arnhem, Nijmegen) and Brabant (specifically Tilburg-Eindhoven) urban areas to go to the Randstad by train or not. The way of thinking in crucial travel times (1 hour to each city to be able to commute) in Denmark is a wise step as the psychological effect of the positive 'just an hour travelling' is bigger than the negative 'just a few minutes shorter'. Also, consider that Amsterdam is an important airline hub, so an HST line to that city does by far not mean an HST on a loose end, let alone the people that live in our country. Speeding it up can also make more people deciding to travel via AMS or FRA airports rather than the other, or with DUS, even eliminating the need of having to serve a specific destination by both airports as the catchment areas would overlap enormously.

If Denmark speeds up the line towards the Fehmarnbelttunnel, that would of course require a lot of investment, but the connection to Hamburg and even Berlin could be so much faster, even more when Germany invests as well. Copenhagen would be a transport node that connects the mainland to the Scandinavian peninsula instead of another stop on a freak line that does not make sense to travel by instead of by plane. And indeed involves distances of 500-700km. Kastrup will be very happy as well, as Germany comes in sight as well. National interests like these should never be underestimated.

Yes, I hate the short-sightedness of our government towards rail transport, like if 140kph, or 160 at max would be enough to serve the whole country, while upgraded 200 lines could bring Groningen and Maastricht within Amsterdam's commute time like Vejle and Kolding to Copenhagen (according to the hour plan), Cologne to Frankfurt or Dijon to Paris.


----------



## bongo-anders

Good points.


And that is why I´m happy to hear that ze Germans is talking about making their railway from Lübeck to Fehmarn at 200 km/h instead of 160 km/h.

The rest of the line to Hamburg will be 160 km/h but its only around 60 kilometers or something like that.


This is the situation at the other end of that line where the top speed is 250 km/h (well 230 km/h in the sharp curve around Køge).


----------



## bongo-anders

The bike lane next to the railway at Køge is supposed to be finished in November and it starts to look like something.









A little bit further north it looks like the railway connection from the high speed line to Lille Syd (Little South) looks done but I can´t see if the railway is connected from under the motorway and S-trainline.












And a view of the station.









And the S-train platforms is just visible behind the noise barriers.


----------



## bongo-anders

The electrification of Lunderskov Esbjerg is off course delayed to the end of April, originally it was at the start of the 2017 timetable.

So it is expected that DSB can start regular service with electric powered trains in May 2007.


http://www.ft.dk/samling/20161/almdel/tru/bilag/40/1680329.pdf


----------



## Sunfuns

Was there a reason given why it took longer than expected?


----------



## thomasKing

hans280 said:


> In the case of Denmark I might agree. Living in France, as I do, I can assure you that the difference between 200 kph and true high-speed is significant when the inter-regional trains cover distances of 500-700 km. Your point about "the vast majority of passengers" is moreover IMO a bit flippant. The vast majority of passengers are using trains for a relatively short daily commute and, yes, HS lines are irrelevant for their purposes. But does this imply that one shouldn't invest in a strong long-distance rail network as well?
> 
> The Belgians initially made similar arguments about HS rail: their country is small (the size of Jutland, I believe), so why should they be expected to invest in 300 kph lines as opposed to a more pragmatic approach? However, the Belgian railways are part of a larger long-distance network tying together Paris, London, Amsterdam and the German industrial heartland. The speed on intra-Belgian lines was not just about freighting people from Brussels to Antwerp, and in the end the Belgian authorities yielded to the pressure. In the case of Denmark this is unlikely to happen, because the southern neighbour is Germany. The Germans are reluctant to go all-out on HS, and insofar as they are willing to invest in railways their main priority seems to be the east-west connections rather than their relatively unpopulated north. In other words, truly HS solutions are not necessarily needed for domestic Danish purposes, and there's no cross-country considerations altering that calculation.


But the french high speed system post big losses as all other such systems. There are so many technical, practical and economic issues with high speed that it just isnt worth it generally. As you said yourself, there isnt really any demand for it. It doesnt suit actual needs. 

It even ignores the trues strength of rail, linking city centres. The great thing about rail is not getting from A to B in 100 minutes but from A to B in 110 minutes, making 4 stop along the way, linking six city centres in virtually the same time and much much cheaper. In reality it would even be better for those travelling from A to B only because there will be more passengers and thus higher frequency which often matters more than speed.

And thats the core problem with high speed. It facinates some people more than blring issues like frequency. The danish aarhus-copenhagen two-hour link is based on just one train per hour.other trains will be de!iberately slowed down. But would most people not prefer 4-6 slightly slower trains per hour? I think so. But high frequency isny sexy enough, apparently.


----------



## thomasKing

The Polman said:


> The contrasting thoughts, in combination with the price tag of our first and only HST line, necked further plans in the Netherlands. It is indeed *very *important to look further than the existing stream of passengers. Many people here see Amsterdam just as a terminus of international traffic, and use that stupid pretext to prevent an HST or even any speed improvement to Germany. No, even within our borders. However, we MUST look further!
> 
> Reducing our travel times by increasing maximum speeds to 160 or 200, let alone to 250 or 300 on longer distances can make the crucial difference within a few minutes: the first category between 60 and 90 minutes, which ultimately decides people from the Gelderland (Arnhem, Nijmegen) and Brabant (specifically Tilburg-Eindhoven) urban areas to go to the Randstad by train or not. The way of thinking in crucial travel times (1 hour to each city to be able to commute) in Denmark is a wise step as the psychological effect of the positive 'just an hour travelling' is bigger than the negative 'just a few minutes shorter'. Also, consider that Amsterdam is an important airline hub, so an HST line to that city does by far not mean an HST on a loose end, let alone the people that live in our country. Speeding it up can also make more people deciding to travel via AMS or FRA airports rather than the other, or with DUS, even eliminating the need of having to serve a specific destination by both airports as the catchment areas would overlap enormously.
> 
> If Denmark speeds up the line towards the Fehmarnbelttunnel, that would of course require a lot of investment, but the connection to Hamburg and even Berlin could be so much faster, even more when Germany invests as well. Copenhagen would be a transport node that connects the mainland to the Scandinavian peninsula instead of another stop on a freak line that does not make sense to travel by instead of by plane. And indeed involves distances of 500-700km. Kastrup will be very happy as well, as Germany comes in sight as well. National interests like these should never be underestimated.
> 
> Yes, I hate the short-sightedness of our government towards rail transport, like if 140kph, or 160 at max would be enough to serve the whole country, while upgraded 200 lines could bring Groningen and Maastricht within Amsterdam's commute time like Vejle and Kolding to Copenhagen (according to the hour plan), Cologne to Frankfurt or Dijon to Paris.


Is it really short sightedness not to pump billions into systems which are proven economic failures and would be even worse in your examples

Very few people will travel by train from denmark/sweden to Germany and beyond. It makes zero sense. Flying is much cheaper and faster over such distances.

You are right about the simplicity and psychological effect of the hour-plan but the loss of frequency alone makes it not worth it, at least not this way. The strongest railway in europe is probably the swiss. The fastest growing is the british. Neither has any real high speed. Spain now has the most high speed stuff in europe. And all heavily subsidised. What they dont have is passengers. We are not slaves to technology. Just because uts possible to construct, doesnt mean it makes sense.


----------



## The Polwoman

thomasKing said:


> Is it really short sightedness not to pump billions into systems which are proven economic failures and would be even worse in your examples
> 
> Very few people will travel by train from denmark/sweden to Germany and beyond. It makes zero sense. Flying is much cheaper and faster over such distances.
> 
> You are right about the simplicity and psychological effect of the hour-plan but the loss of frequency alone makes it not worth it, at least not this way. The strongest railway in europe is probably the swiss. The fastest growing is the british. Neither has any real high speed. Spain now has the most high speed stuff in europe. And all heavily subsidised. What they dont have is passengers. We are not slaves to technology. Just because uts possible to construct, doesnt mean it makes sense.


They do not really have much 300kph, but what they do have is a strong network of higher-speed upgraded tracks that support 200kph. And by the way, the UK is investing in 350kph track. That last one does not make sense for the Danish, but 200kph does, as the investments are a lot smaller. By the way, Scandinavian countries (rich and sparsely populated) are not the ones just building roads and rail for profitability, that does not make sense for these countries, otherwise many people still used ferries in Denmark and Norway would be pretty much inaccessible.


----------



## hans280

thomasKing said:


> But the french high speed system post big losses as all other such systems. There are so many technical, practical and economic issues with high speed that it just isnt worth it generally.


That depends on your definition of "worth it". Many railway projects generate financial deficits because they are designed to provide public services the benefits of which are felt by a much wider range of persons than the actual passengers. Some of the French HS lines have given a shot in the arm to the economic development of previously sleepy provincial towns. This is a tangible benefit for which the French tax payers are willing to pay. If you say that all infrastructure that cannot finance itself is not needed then you are implicitly saying that the Copenhagen Metro is unnecessary. For that matter, you are also saying that the US Postal Service is unnecessary.



thomasKing said:


> It even ignores the trues strength of rail, linking city centres. The great thing about rail is not getting from A to B in 100 minutes but from A to B in 110 minutes, making 4 stop along the way, linking six city centres in virtually the same time and much much cheaper.


If this was only about 10 minutes total then I might agree. However, according to French calculations each additional stop of a TGV prolongs the travel time to the end station by 8-10 minutes. Hence four additional stops equates around 35 additional travel minutes. Surely, the optimal network solution is to have relatively few stops at large towns on a main HS line, and good "feeder services" running between these stations, picking passengers up from the smaller towns and delivering them to the next junction point on the line? 



thomasKing said:


> The danish aarhus-copenhagen two-hour link is based on just one train per hour.other trains will be de!iberately slowed down. But would most people not prefer 4-6 slightly slower trains per hour? I think so. But high frequency isny sexy enough, apparently.


These trains would run almost empty. I simply cannot believe that there's a market for 4-6 trains per hour between Copenhagen, Odense and Aarhus. So for the only European country I know (others might know more?) to have inserted twice-per-hour service on their intercity lines is Switzerland. And the density of population in the north-west of their country is a heck-of-a-lot higher than in Denmark. Perhaps the Dutch and the Brits have done something similar? But hardly 6 intercity trains per hour.


----------



## Sunfuns

hans280 said:


> So for the only European country I know (others might know more?) to have inserted twice-per-hour service on their intercity lines is Switzerland. And the density of population in the north-west of their country is a heck-of-a-lot higher than in Denmark. Perhaps the Dutch and the Brits have done something similar? But hardly 6 intercity trains per hour.


Between Basel and Zurich, the line I know the best, there are up to 5 intercity trains per hour. Two nonstop (53 min) and three making 3-5 stops (1:05 and 1:11) and using two entirely different lines. 

How many trains per hour between Paris and Lyon? Surely more than one.


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## M-NL

hans280 said:


> So for the only European country I know (others might know more?) to have inserted twice-per-hour service on their intercity lines is Switzerland. And the density of population in the north-west of their country is a heck-of-a-lot higher than in Denmark. Perhaps the Dutch and the Brits have done something similar? But hardly 6 intercity trains per hour.


In the Netherlands all Intercity trains, except for the international services, provide at least twice an hour service. See the map: Wikipedia: InterCity Netherlands. On some relations, like Amsterdam-Rotterdam there are at least 4 regular Intercity services an hour and also 4 Intercity Direct services an hour.


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## Grotlaufen

The Polman said:


> If Denmark speeds up the line towards the Fehmarnbelttunnel, that would of course require a lot of investment, but the connection to Hamburg and even Berlin could be so much faster, even more when Germany invests as well. Copenhagen would be a transport node that connects the mainland to the Scandinavian peninsula instead of another stop on a freak line that does not make sense to travel by instead of by plane. And indeed involves distances of 500-700km. Kastrup will be very happy as well, as Germany comes in sight as well. National interests like these should never be underestimated.
> 
> Yes, I hate the short-sightedness of our government towards rail transport, like if 140kph, or 160 at max would be enough to serve the whole country, while upgraded 200 lines could bring Groningen and Maastricht within Amsterdam's commute time like Vejle and Kolding to Copenhagen (according to the hour plan), Cologne to Frankfurt or Dijon to Paris.



Originaly the main benefactor of the Fehmarnbelt-link were freight traffic when it opened in 1963. Up until the 1990's with the bridges on Storebælt and Øresund the discussions for a fixed link were mostly fixated around two lanes of highway and one track of rail (it should also be noted that until the 1990's the Danish and German states' railway operatives, DSB and DB together, owned the whole ferry link. Had this still been the case, it would have simplified the German planning approval process a lot since the now privately-owned Scandlines only approach to the fixed link is to stall the process as much as possible, and given their size and wealth they are buying all German legalese expertise more efficient than other organizations can, writing at large for almost every aspect to the project that has to be replied in a way that is bullet-proof. Welfare for lawyers would be another way to describe the whole situation, essentialy buying time for Scandlines to suck up more wealth from their customers in the mean time. No one believes they will continue their ferry traffic after the tunnel has been opened but one way to buy time which is now being implemented in the project has been to demand costly upgrades for the roads leading up to the ferry terminals). Freight has been one of the main reasons for the whole rail link in the first place (hence the large rail yards on both sides of Fehmarn next to the ferry terminals). When the Store Bælt bridge was opened trains were suddenly rerouted to a 160 kms of detour which clogs up traffic across Denmark given the speed differences in freight and passenger trains. It was also around that time (1990's) that high speed passenger rail seemed feasible to and from Scandinavian mainland as there had been large upgrades to the rail network connectiong to these bridges in Denmark and Sweden.



Hence when the treaty between Denmark and Germany was signed in 2008 it was explicity stated that the bridges on StorstrØmmen and from Fehmarn to mainland Germany were not to be included in the upgrade of the rail and road link except for electrification. It was only when these old and dilapidated single-track bridges (the Danish bridge was built in the 1930's and have barley been renovated since, especially not after most of the road traffic shifted to the new Faro motorway bridge in the 1980's. Fehmarnsund was 30 yrs younger, but suffered from heavier loads stressing the bridge especially as it it the only road bridge to the island too) were deemed to be infeasible that it suddenly made more sense to upgrade for high speed passenger rail too. There are still no plans for a speed increase between Hamburg and Lübeck (max 160 km/h but with many restrictions in places, several grade crossings). Given the German planning process I expect that once the tunnel is complete it will feel like a breeze to travel between Copenhagen and Lübeck (where there will be new, electrified double-track rail all the way) and be a slow, tortous and bottlenecked continuation to Hamburg (where there are not only a reduced speed but also a lot of regional commuter trains and S-bahn that'll suck up the capacity. Yes there's a project to extend the S-bahn to Bad Oldesloe mid-way to Lübeck with new tracks and grade separations, but as said, given German planning when it comes to infrastructure I wouldn't hold my horses they'll stick to the nor any schedule.)


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## hans280

Sunfuns said:


> How many trains per hour between Paris and Lyon? Surely more than one.


Yes, but it's a bit difficult to be exact because the French TGVs (regrettably!) do not follow a fixed hourly schedule. On average there are two non-stop trains between Paris and the old central station in Lyon. And there's a third train connecting Paris and the outlying St. Exupery (by the airport) station. 

In addition to this there is any number of trains servicing the towns and communities between Paris and Lyon, but this is done using the legacy railway line that predates the HS line. - And never the twain shall meet... :lol:


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## hans280

[Deleted because of duplication]


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## bongo-anders

Sunfuns said:


> Was there a reason given why it took longer than expected?



Sorry for the late reply.

This is google translates version of the official document, I hope it explains it :lol:


The reasons for the delay
The Rail Net Denmark's view that the primary reason for the delay is that the supplier has not
complete design in time in relation to the execution of the project in the field. It was assumed that the supplier had to undertake detailed design and execution simultaneously. Net Denmark, however,
been noted that the mobilization has been difficult for the supplier. this delayed
detailed design, as well as lack and unstable supplies, has resulted in the construction work is not
progressed according to plan.
Furthermore, it has been difficult to adapt new track closures for the postponed work.
Track Blocks and blocks of the areas you are working in, has due to delay no longer
been located and notified of the rate at which track barring process requires. It has hampered
the process of providing the necessary new entanglements. There has initiated a close
coordinating work on this subject, while evaluating the barring pattern from this stretch and
continue the experience for the workers to come to the following projects.
Net Denmark has worked closely with the supplier of various remedial measures
blue. by separation of occupancy permit, rental of equipment, staff training, increased
cooperation on track closures etc.


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## MarcVD

M-NL said:


> In the Netherlands all Intercity trains, except for the international services, provide at least twice an hour service. See the map: Wikipedia: InterCity Netherlands. On some relations, like Amsterdam-Rotterdam there are at least 4 regular Intercity services an hour and also 4 Intercity Direct services an hour.


Same for most IC lines in Belgium. But we are indeed not speaking about the same population density. 

Envoyé de mon GT-I9505 en utilisant Tapatalk


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## bongo-anders

Train ride from Fredericia in the western part of Denmark to Copenhagen all the way out on the east coast of Denmark.

Interesting bits are

00:10 to 05:30 exiting Fredericia and crossing the Lillebælt bridge.
46:00 to 55:30 crossing the Storebælt fixed link
1:12:00 to 1:16:30 Through Ringsted station and the works on the hih speed rail where the first tracks a visible.
1:25:00 to the end. The very busy line from where Nordvestbanen meets the main line and continues to Copenhagen.


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## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...-copenhagen-ringsted-hs-line.html?channel=523
> 
> *Tracklaying begins on Copenhagen - Ringsted high-speed line*
> Thursday, November 03, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _DANISH infrastructure manager Banedanmark marked the start of tracklaying on the Copenhagen - Køge - Ringsted high-speed line on October 28, when the first 10 sleepers were lowered into position by Denmark’s transport minister Mr Hans-Christian Schmidt_
> 
> Banedanmark says most of the major earthworks and structures are now complete on the 60km line and ballasting is underway
> 
> ...


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## bongo-anders

This thread on Jernbanen.dk has some updated photos on the lectrification on Lunderskov-Esbjerg.


http://www.jernbanen.dk/forum/index.php?mode=thread&id=113652


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## milipumba

The track laying train has almost reach Ejbyvej in Køge.
The train started in Ringsted two weeks ago.
http://map.krak.dk/m/K3y7z


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## bongo-anders

The best place for trainspotting on the new high speed line is finished, its the bicycle lane from Campus to Køge Nord that is ready for use.


First I thought it wasn´t open yet because the signs for the rerouting was still in place and there was heavy construction machines at work.
But when I came over the the campus I realised that it was open.

So southbound I took pictures from the parking lot and northbound from the bicycle lane itself.















And heading north again.


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## bongo-anders

The track laying train reached Køge today.

First around noon it was at the bridge over exit 32 and a few hours later it arrived at Køge Nord Station.




















And at Køge Nord








And after we made a short visit to the grocery store the train had moved a little bit closer.














The train now drives back to Ringsted and start on the other track and will be back at Køge Nord in 3 weeks time.
After that its the tracks towards Copenhagen that are going to be assembled.


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## bongo-anders

A picture without the tracklaying train but sadly in direct sunlight.


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## milipumba

Two trains parked at the future Køge Nord station.


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## bongo-anders

I also have some pictures but from some other angles.


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## milipumba

The westbound track, from Ringsted, has reach højelsevej, about 5km West of Køge Nord station. You can also see the location of a future sidetrack on the left side in the first pictures. 

Looking east


Looking West


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## bongo-anders

As evident by these pictures we can conclude that the track laying train hasn´t reached Ølbyvej just yet.


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## milipumba

Damn, i missed the train to Copenhagen. Maybe i can get the next one around 2 years from now. 

Bonus info. The copenhagen bound track will have reached Greve centervej, when they are going for christmas vacation on the 21 of december.
They will lay the 2 tracks to Hvidovre, before they are going into the tunnels in Hvidovre and Vigerslev.


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## bongo-anders

They have started to lay track on the inbound track.

First seen from Egedesvej



















And the Ølsemagle bridge


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## bongo-anders

Some major events take place in this video.

From Roskilde the very last Litra MR train on the Lilly Syd line departs.

In Odense where the train is parked we see some of the last ICE TD trains heading back to Ze Germans to get scrapped.

In the K17 timetable only one departure each day on the Copenhagen Hamburg route is operated by an ICE TD, the rest will be IC3 (Litra MF).

Finally 3 more of the Litra MQ trains arrives in Ringsted on the way towards Næstved where the Lille Syd depot is located.


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## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...-withdraw-troubled-ic4-fleet.html?channel=529
> 
> *DSB to withdraw troubled IC4 fleet*
> Friday, December 16, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _DANISH State Railways (DSB) announced on December 15 that it will phase out the fleet of AnsaldoBreda IC4 trains in 2024 as electrification enables the introduction of new EMUs to replace the troubled DMUs_
> 
> DSB ordered 82 four-car IC4 and 23 IC2 two-car sets from the Italian manufacturer in 2000 and the first trains were due to enter service in 2003, but the trains have been beset by technical problems and introduction has been heavily delayed
> 
> ...


----------



## hans280

dimlys1994 said:


> From Rail Journal:


Hmmm.... death by a thousand cuts. I feel sorry for the commuters and other passengers on the Danish regional lines - who will be stuck with the IC4 trains for the next eight years. To date, as far as I gather from the Danish press, the IC4s need servicing and repairs almost three times as often (per km. traveled) as comparable trains. Delays and cancellations ahead. hno:


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## bongo-anders

Double track under Ølbyvej.


Looking west








Looking east


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## bongo-anders

The connection between the new line and the legacy line in Ringsted is in full swing




Køge Nord station




Here is the track laying train just north of Solrød Strand, In today is around Ishøj so the picture is a week or so old





Next up for the train is the M4 bridge, I expect huge traffic jams when the train pass over the M4 motorway.






The Hvidovre tunnel is almost finished and they have started to move the Holbæk motorway back on place.
Behind is the Kulbane tunnel.


----------



## jaime.keetah

i miss denmark


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## bongo-anders

Around Campus KØge and STC Køge.


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## Nexis

Führerstandsmitfahrt Dänemark: Esbjerg - Fredericia Januar 2017


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## bongo-anders

Still alot of works to do around Esbjerg.


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## bongo-anders

The track laying train has reached Sydgårsdvej in Brøndby.















Between Brøndbyvester Boulevard and Motorring 3


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## bongo-anders

As they are working on the connection between the old and new line east of Ringsted in 8 weekends in January and February the trains to and from Berlin/Hamburg, Rødby færge and Nykøbing F are diverted through the lille Syd line and Køge station.














And then it started to snow


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## bongo-anders

Its time to be introduced to the smaller local railroads around Denmark, we start up with Faxe Ladeplads to Køge on Østbanen.









In northern Zealand we have Hundested Hillerød line called Frederiksværkbanen named after the largest town on the route.








Nakskov Nykøbing F on Lollandsbanen on the island called Lolland and Falster where Nykøbing is located.








On the western part of Zealland we have Høng-Tølløse banen even though it continues from Høng to Slagelse.

This train apparently continues to Holbæk instead of ending in Tølløse







This one goes from the ferry town of Frederikshavn to the beachside town of Skagen at the tup of the jutland peninsula. 
Skagen are known for a huge fishing harbour and in recent years also has become a larger cruise destination.










Another one from northern jutland is Hjørring Hirtshals.

Hirtshals has a huge ferry port with ferries to Larvik, Kristianssand, Stavanger, Bergen, the Faroe Islands and Iceland.









These are the ones for now :lol:


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## Sunfuns

Those are really well made! I've watched some fragments of all of them already. But beyond cool videos how are these local railways doing in Denmark in terms of passenger numbers, frequencies, reliability etc.? I've noticed already that in some of these lines (last clip in particular) stations are very close to each other (almost like a tram!), seemingly in the middle of nowhere (no houses seen) and there was only 1-2 passengers boarding.


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## bongo-anders

Most of these lines runs on support from the municipality, regions or the state so they are not profitable.

The smaller stations are only served when the passengers press on a stop button in the train or on the platform.


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## bongo-anders

2 aerials of the high speed line from this month.


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## bongo-anders

Sheet piling at the S train platforms at Køge Nord Station are in full swing in preperation for the bridge pillars for the pedestrian bridge.


The S-train platforms are on the left side of this picture.


----------



## Never give up

Audit criticises Danish signaling programme.

http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...-danish-signalling-programme.html?channel=532


----------



## bongo-anders

The Hvidovre Tunnel is done as is ready for the track laying train.


Here is some before and after pictures from Bane Danmarks website.


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## milipumba

Photos, from january, from the future Køge Nord station. 
Here we are looking south with the connection, to the old line into central Køge, in the background. 





And then a look north, with Solrød in the background. 
And Copenhagen is somewhere down the coast.


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## bongo-anders

Tadahhhh the tracklaying machine on the Copenhagen Ringsted high speed line is done.

Only some minor work like adjusting the rails and ballast is missing.

Next step is signaling (ERTMS-2) and mounting the catenary poles for the electrical wires.

I have heard both spring and more specifically April or May as start up dates for these works.

http://www.bane.dk/visModulnyhed.asp?artikelID=25826


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## ulca01

There are still some details missing on the line:

First of all, there is the flyover with related turnout just southwest of Ny Ellebjerg station; these have yet to be built. According to the timeline, this should happen sometime this year.

Secondly, the are the final connections to the station in Ringsted, as well the replacement of several turnouts, moving and/or justment of tracks and platforms there to.


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## bongo-anders

The flyover has been moved back a few years so they can fit with implementation of the new signaling system. 

For now they will just made a track switch.


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## ulca01

The flyover to have been moved back is, to my knowledge, is the one at Ringsted where they had originally planned it in the west end, now they some people have suggested it be placed in the east end. 

The one at Ny Ellebjerg has not been moved. 

At any rate, making such changes so relatively late in the progress seems crazy, especially if the already had a working design.


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## excel919

Amazing pictures.


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## bongo-anders

New set of aerials from the high speed rail.


The Kulbane tunnel at the northern end of the new line.




The M4 bridge




Køge Nord station






The area around exit 32 on the Køge Bugt motorway




New and old line meets up.





Ringsted station.


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## bongo-anders

Barslund has won the contract to rebuild 6 station on the Ringsted Fehmarn railway line.

Its Glumsø, Lundby, Vordingborg, Nr Alslev, Eskilstrup and Nykøbing F.

They start up in Eskilstrup by the end of this year and will be finished in 2021.

They also have and option to build a forplads (don´t now the english word, station square?) at Glumsø and a parking lot at Vordingborg.


http://www.bane.dk/visNyhed.asp?artikelID=25855


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## Sunfuns

That's the same line which will be used for the Fehmarn fixed link, right?


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## bongo-anders

That is correct. 

They have allocated the 9.5 or so billions + almost 4 billions for the Storstrøms Bridge without even knowing if Ze Germans will approve the tunnel. 

So I'm guessing we will have a huge bill to pay if its not approved, but at least Nykøbing will get a travel time to Copenhagen on 1 hour. :lol:


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## Sunfuns

14 billions Danish krones I assume, right? I thought Fehmarn link has already been fully approved and ready to go. Are you know telling me that it's not the case and everything can still fall apart?


----------



## Ingenioren

Theoreticly, but in reality it's just delayed for sure.


----------



## ulca01

Sunfuns said:


> 14 billions Danish krones I assume, right? I thought Fehmarn link has already been fully approved and ready to go. Are you know telling me that it's not the case and everything can still fall apart?


It _has_ been fully approved by the Danish Parliament (Folketinget), but the Germans has not yet approved it. 
Right now, Femern A/S (who is constructing the link and will be the legal owner, but itself owned by the Danish state) has delivered answers to the German complaints; some 11.000 (thousand) pages and with statesments from lawyers, expects on the environment and several other, some 100+ people.
It might seem a bit extreme, but there is a point the Germans are generally very focused on, not just in this project: Quality; only the very best is good enough.


----------



## ulca01

Sunfuns said:


> That's the same line which will be used for the Fehmarn fixed link, right?


Yes and no. The primary reason for building the new line, is to "release the pressure" from the current line Copenhagen - Roskilde - Ringsted, especially between Copenhagen and Roskilde. And to make the socalled "timeplan" (that's "hour"plan, with trains using only 1 hour between each of the largest cities in Denmark.

The current line has become somewhat of a bottleneck, with basically every train going westwards from Copenhagen using that line (since it _is_ the only one at the moment.
Especially the line Høje Taastrup - Roskilde even with it's 4 tracks has reached it's max. capacity. And for the last approx. 20 years, it has been so. I have tried to make a quick rundown of which trains uses the line right now:
*Regional trains to Ringsted, Holbæk and Nykøbing Falster, 2 trains/hour each and in both directions (ie. 6 trains/hour each way).
*InterCity trains to Fyn and Jylland, at least two lines with one train/hour, both ways
* And a number of cargo trains.

So, the new line serves 2 primary goals:
1. "Relieve the pressure" from the old line
2. Enable faster trains between the large cities

The fact that it will be possible to route trains to Femern that way, perhaps via Køge Nord and the southern part of Lille Syd to Næstved, is just "extra icing on the cake" to use a modern expression.


----------



## kapo311

Today's photos from Kulbanetunnel on the new KBH-Ringsted high-speed line.


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## bongo-anders

Pictures of the new high speed line from Køge Nord and Solrød Byvej.


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## bongo-anders

Køge Nord from today.

Currently they are building something that in Danish are called a Kabelrende, directly translated its cable trench but I don´t think its the correct term :lol:






















The S-train platforms are hidding in the green.


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## bongo-anders

The last 2 nights they have transported the 6 bridge sections for the pedestrian bridge at Køge Nord station from the local port to the construction site.

They had to transport 5 sections to the eastern side between the motorway and the S-train lines and 1 to the western side next to the long distance platforms.



I have posted them all here in the Køge Projects & Construction thread but I will give a little teaser 


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=140467519#post140467519


These rounds of photos is fram the transport of the last 3 sections.


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## JumpUp

When will the new Copenhagen - Ringsted HSR be opened for passenger traffic? It says 2018 online, but in what month?

Time saving will be ca. 20 minutes for trains to Germany and western Denmark, correct?

Thanks


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## milipumba

The new line opens in december 2018. But with reduced trafic the first 8 month, because of some bridge construction west of Ringsted station. 
There will be no trains to western Denmark, on the new line, because of that. 

The only service that will use the entire new line, is the express train from Nykøbing F / Hamburg to Copenhagen. 
The new regional service between Copenhagen - Køge - Næstved, is postponed to 2020 because of some construction( new signals and eletrification) on the Lille syd line. 
But they will start up with 2 trains/hour between Copenhagen and Køge Nord station the first 2 years. 

I'm not sure about the time savings on the new railroad alone. 
But with the upgrade of Sydbanen to 200 kph. Is the trip from Copenhagen to Nykøbing F, going down to 1:00 from 1:30.

And with the Germans building a new railroad line to Lübeck. Is the travel time from Copenhagen to Hamburg going down to 2:30 from 4:30. But only when the Fehmarn belt tunnel is completed in year 21 something. ;-)


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## JumpUp

Hey!

Last week I travelled to Denmark ant saw many IC4 trains. The fleet does seem to have a different color layout on the doors. Some trains had (if i remember correct) green/yellow and others red stripes at the doors.

Whats the reason for the different colors?

Thanks-!


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## bongo-anders

That is a very good question, I will see if I can dig up some information.


----------



## bongo-anders

Its actually a very simple answer. 

To start with they where green but a design change has made them red. 

They just haven't bothered to change the green ones yet.


----------



## vigiliant

^^ I think the color stripes are the last concern for DSB, regarding the troubled IC4 trains


----------



## Never give up

Latest aerials from Banedanmark of the new Copenhagen-Køge-Ringsted line.

https://www.bane.dk/Borger/Baneproj...Nyheder/Den-nye-bane-set-fra-oven-_-juni-2017


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## 8166UY

Neatly ordered public space. Being Dutch this pleases me way more than would be logical.


----------



## bongo-anders

Sorry for the missing pictures but Photobucket is blackmailing me for 399 USD and I´m not paying that kind of money for some pictures :lol:


But here are some new pictures from my new flickr account (lets see how long it goes before they want more money)


Here we are at Ølbyvej looking west










And east/northeast


----------



## Nexis

*Führerstandsmitfahrt Dänemark: Esbjerg - København H mit IC820*


----------



## jonasry

So I have been trying to find how much this line will reduce travel times. Especially interested for trains to and from Hamburg. As I understand those will be the only ones using the whole line.

For reference, travel time today is 4:45. Main factor that slows down trains is of course the ferry between Rødby and Puttgarden and the sorry state of railways in Schleswig-Holstein. But if the project manages to slash 10-15 minutes of the travel time it's still an improvement (15 of 270 minutes is 5 % reduction in travel time!).


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## bongo-anders

Travel time will be highly reduced. 

If we split it up in stages it will look like this.

Copenhagen to Ringsted up from around 180 km/h (and lower through the stations) to 250 on the new line. 

Ringsted to Vordingborg is up from 160 to 200 km/h. 

New Storstrøm bridge is build for 200 km/h, the current one is around 80 km/h. 

The rest of the line from the bridge to the tunnel is being double tracked and upgraded from 120 to 200 km/h. 

The tunnel itself i believe will be 200 km/h but I have seen 230/250 mentioned. 

The part from the tunnel to the Fehmarnsund bridge I'm unsure off. 

From Fehmarnsund to Lübeck it will be upgraded from around 100/120 to 160 km/h by a new constructed railway. 

The part from Lübeck to Hamburg is today 160 km/h and and that will not change but they will build a 3rd track up to Bad Oldesloe (spelling). 

I have head travel times from between 2:30 and 3 hours.


----------



## hans280

bongo-anders said:


> Copenhagen to Ringsted up from around 180 km/h (and lower through the stations) to 250 on the new line.


I think it will be 200 km/h on the new line, initially. By the way, does anyone know how many kilometers the new/old lines between Copenhagen and Ringsted are, so that we can compare? When I still lived in Denmark (many years ago!) we used to say that CPH-Koege-Ringsted was broadly the same distance as CPH-Roskilde-Ringsted.



bongo-anders said:


> The tunnel itself i believe will be 200 km/h but I have seen 230/250 mentioned.


Hmmm? I also saw 230/250 mentioned when the Swiss started boring their - impressive! - new Gotthardt Tunnel. The problem is, as far as I've understood, that this is only really feasible if the high-speed train is alone in the tunnel. If for instance there's a slower train in front of the fast train (even at a safe distance) the fast train has to slow down because the air pressure within the tunnel becomes excessive. 



bongo-anders said:


> I have head travel times from between 2:30 and 3 hours.


Yes, "best travel times" around 2 1/2 have been bandied around, but let's see what they can actually deliver. At any rate, this is a time saving of around 2 hours on the CPH-Hamburg line. It must be said that about half of the improvement comes from not having to languish on a ferry or having to wait in the port for a new engine car, but still.... great progress! :banana:


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## Grotlaufen

hans280 said:


> I think it will be 200 km/h on the new line, initially. By the way, does anyone know how many kilometers the new/old lines between Copenhagen and Ringsted are, so that we can compare? When I still lived in Denmark (many years ago!) we used to say that CPH-Koege-Ringsted was broadly the same distance as CPH-Roskilde-Ringsted.


63.9 kms with the current rail/Vestbanen.


The new HSR to CPH is strictly 60 kms from Ringsted to Ny Ellebjerg in Cph. From there to _Hovedbanegården_ it's a bit shorter than 4 kms. It wins over the current route with a few 100 meters at most.

Thus in length it broadly stays the same.


----------



## telemaxx

bongo-anders said:


> The part from the tunnel to the Fehmarnsund bridge I'm unsure off.
> 
> From Fehmarnsund to Lübeck it will be upgraded from around 100/120 to 160 km/h by a new constructed railway.
> 
> The part from Lübeck to Hamburg is today 160 km/h and and that will not change but they will build a 3rd track up to Bad Oldesloe (spelling).


The Fehmarnsund bridge will need to be replaced as well, so I think there will be an speed upgade as well. Time plan is to be finished 2028. 

IIRC the parts of the line between Fehmarnsund bridge and Lübeck that are to be built completely new along the Autobahn are even planned for 200 km/h. 

Between Hamburg(-Hasselbrrok) and Ahrensburg two new tracks will be built for the S-Bahn. Between Ahrensburg and Ahrensburg-Gartenholz one new track will be built for the S-Bahn. Between Ahrensburg-Gartenholz and Bad Oldesloe no new track will be built. Investigations have shown that this infrastructure is sufficient as the S-Bahn will ride every 10 minutes only until Ahrensburg during peak periods (to Bargteheide every 20 minutes, to Bad Oldesloe which is also served by the faster RE (regional express) every 60 minutes). 

However, there will be no speed upgrades due to the new tracks.


----------



## jonasry

Well, when the tunnel is finished I've also heard of new times "under three hours". But mostly interested if we can see some improvements in the next couple of years. Both when Copenhagen-Ringsted line finished in late 2018 and with speed improvements on Ringsted-Femern line that should be finished in 2021.


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## bongo-anders

Travel time between Copenhagen and Nykøbing F will go down from around 1,5 hour to 1 hour so there we get the first 30 minutes.

The ferry crossing takes 45 minutes but with stops at both Rødby Færge and Puttgarden and loading and offloading it takes 1 hour and 7 minutes to do the crossing. 

In the tunnel it takes 10 minutes so around 57 minutes is saved there. 

So there its already 1 hour and 27 minutes shorter travel time. 

The part from Nykøbing F to Rødby Færge takes 21 minutes today but with double track and 200 km/h speed limit instead of 120 then the travel time will probably be around 14 minutes so another 7 minutes is cut from the travel time.

So just from Copenhagen to Puttgarden its 1 hour and 34 minutes shorter. 

So that brings us down from 4:45 to 3:11.


Travel time from Puttgarden to Hamburg is 1 hour and 40 minutes. 
Hamburg Lübeck will remain at 160 km/h but as noted there will be some capacity Improvements. 

A new line from Lübeck to the fehmarnsund bridge will be build, originally it was 160 km/h but according to Telemaxx post its now a more logical 200 km/h. 

If we assume that a new Fehmarnsund bridge and the railroad on Fehmarn will be upgraded to 200 km/h then my best guess id that the travel time from Puttgarden to Lübeck will go down from 55 minutes to around 30 minutes. 

That will make the total travel time around 2:46 and that is reasonable if you ask me. 


The only things that (according to me) can reduce the travel time further would be..... 
High speed line from Køge Nord to Vordingborg probably cutting a further 10-15 minutes compared to the upgraded line from Ringsted. 

Bypass of Nykøbing F with or without a new station on Lolland probably getting 5-8 minutes more. 

A new line into Hamburg (very expensive) probably also getting 10-15 minutes. 

So around 25 to 38 minutes shorter but at what cost? 

In the real world the travel time will be around 2:45 but probably closer to 3 hours and with my fantasy project then 2:10-2:20.


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## ulca01

A bypass of Nykøbing F. would, in my opinion, be a bad idea. 
Why? Quite simply because Nykøbing F., or at least it's station, is a central hub for public transportation; both the private railway line to Nakskov and most of Lolland, and several busses to most of Falster and eastern Lolland. 
So bypassing Nykøbing F. would "rob" these areas of a fast and decent connection to both Copenhagen and other places; as it is today Nykøbing F. is served by regional trains stopping at every station between Nykøbing and Ringsted plus Roskilde and Høje Taastrup, as well as "fast" regional trains which stops only at Vordingborg - Næstved and Høje Taastrup. And a number at EC trains as well, which stops at the same stations as the "fast" regional trains; in fact some of the EC trains has an extra train-set (IC3 or ICE-TD, though the latter has been taken out of service) coupled to it between Copenhagen and Nykøbing F, (and the other way as well).

What the line between Lübeck and Hamburg concerns, I for one hope that they will improve the line and make it possible to run at 180 or 200 km/h (more would be great, but how likely is it?).

Also, I can't help thinking, how fast trains can run on the line from Lübeck to Büchen (a junction on the line between Hamburg and Berlin, and former border station until Germany was re-united), but I guessing 160 km/h since it (the line) only seems to be served by regional trains. According to few sources, the ICE trains between Hamburg and Berlin run at (up to) 230 km/h. So how long would it take for a train travelling Copenhagen - Lübeck - Büchen - Berlin, if between Copenhagen and Ringsted the speed could be (up to) 250 km/t, between Ringsted and Lübeck 200 km/h, Lübeck - Büchen 160 km/h (or if upgraded, perhaps 180 - 200 km/h) and (up to) 230 km/h the rest of the way. 
I do realise, that it is possible to fly from Copenhagen to Berlin in perhaps 1 - 1,50 hours, but with airport security, demands to check-in some time before departure, I can't help thinking that it might be something like 1,50 - 2 hours plus the time to get to the airport. And how often do planes fly from Copenhagen to Berlin? 
And if you don't live near Copenhagen but perhaps needs to travel 1 or 2 hours, would it then be possible to get to Berlin faster by taking a (high speed) train? Today this journey could be accomplished by taking an EC train to Hamburg and from there an ICE to Berlin, or taking an EC train to Lübeck and switching to some other train to Berlin.


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## Sunfuns

3 h or a little bit below between two major cities about 340 km apart is right in the sweet spot for rail to be a dominant mode of transport. Air is probably totally out of the picture (aside of connecting flights), bus only for the cheapest end and car for those who must have it on the other end for some reason.


----------



## Sunfuns

By the way is Copenhagen station located in such a way that easy through train from Gothenborg and Malmo to Hamburg will be possible? There would probably be demand for that too.


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## ulca01

Sunfuns said:


> By the way is Copenhagen station located in such a way that easy through train from Gothenborg and Malmo to Hamburg will be possible? There would probably be demand for that too.


No, unfortunately not. From the time the first railway lines in Denmark was established, all railway traffic to Sweden was centered around the ferries between Helsingør and Helsingborg (in the North end of Øresund). 
Until the 1960's when the first plans for a fixed connection between Copenhagen and Malmø was presented, the remote trains (regional to other parts of Sjælland and InterCity to other parts of Denmark) was routed either to Helsingør to Sweden or West to Roskilde and the rest of Denmark.

A major reason for why the fixed link across Øresund was placed between Copenhagen (technically Kastrup on the island of Amager) and Malmø was the lack of an international airport near Malmø (which there is near the fixed link's shore connection in Denmark). Also, a surplus of housings and workers in or near Malmø, coupled with a surplus of workplaces in or around Copenhagen, made a fixed link between those cities combined with a regional train system desirable.

There are two basic ways of giving Copenhagen easy access to an international train line:
1. Let the international trains stop at the Copenhagen Central station (hovedbanegården) and reverse direction of travel; since connections to both the before mentioned fixed link and the rest of Denmark is to the South of the station.
2. Let the international trains stop at either the Ørestad station (to the South of Copenhagen, with connections to the Copenhagen Metro) or the Ny Ellebjerg (which has several connections to the S-train system); the latter of which has been suggested as a hub to ease the traffic load at the Central station.


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## bongo-anders

International through trains could easy bypass the central station if it stopped at the airport that also can connect central Copenhagen with the M2 metro line and Øresund trains.

Ny Ellebjerg would be the second and last stop, here S train lines A, E and F, Regionaltog trains and in a few years time M4 will also create a decent hub. 

The only problem is that the flyover they are building west of Ny Ellebjerg is constructed in a way so it will lead trains from Sweden/the airport down the old line (over Roskilde) and trains from the new high speed line into the central station.


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## bongo-anders

For freight trains and high speed trains a bypass of Nykøbing is a great idea. 

A Nykøbing L (for Lolland) station will actually make travel time for the commuters of Lollandsbanen shorter when going to Copenhagen. 

In my dream world they had constructed a high speed line from Vordingborg to Køge Nord and the Regionstog would have taken over the legacy line from Ringsted to Nykøbing F. 

Regionstog would then run 2 lines. 
Nakskov, Nykøbing L, Nykøbing F. 
Nykøbing L, Nykøbing F, Vordingborg , Ringsted. 
A third line to Gedser in timing with the ferry departures would be great but is not part of this scheme. 

The Eurocity trains will then run from Copenhagen, Køge Nord, Vordingborg, Nykøbing L and further on to Hamburg twice per hour in the day time and once per hour in the evening and weekends. 
And then a few non stop trains per day.


----------



## ulca01

bongo-anders said:


> For freight trains and high speed trains a bypass of Nykøbing is a great idea.


A bypass of a traffic hub like Nykøbing is a bad idea, especially when Nykøbing is regional center for the islands of Lolland and Falster.



> A Nykøbing L (for Lolland) station will actually make travel time for the commuters of Lollandsbanen shorter when going to Copenhagen.


Maybe, but where would a Nykøbing L. station be placed? In order to be able to service both Lollandsbanen and other trains, such a station would be placed pretty close to the bridge over Guldborgsund (called "Frederik IXs bro" in danish); otherwise it would mean re-routing Lollandsbanen. 

But by the way, there are plans to establish a new station south of Holeby, just north of the "Ladhavevej" road bridge over the rail line. This station would consist of two central tracks with platforms on the outside and a track on the outside of these platforms. This would then serve as a hub for bus lines to various parts of Lolland; and the local authorities (Lolland Kommune) has even suggested having parts or all of the former rail line Maribo - Holeby - Rødby re-established like a light rail project, and in my dream world supplemented by a branch line to the new station (some 4 - 4,5 km. from the old line at Holeby) and maybe on the southern part of Rødby.



> In my dream world they had constructed a high speed line from Vordingborg to Køge Nord and the Regionstog would have taken over the legacy line from Ringsted to Nykøbing F.


Keep dreaming, I doubt such a line will ever be realised. But there has been plans to let regional trains from Nykøbing F. to Copenhagen (and the other way) use the southern part of Lille Syd (Næstved - Køge - Roskilde) by driving Næstved - Køge - Køge Nord - Copenhagen. The northern part of Lille Syd, between Køge and Roskilde, would then be serviced by expanding trains from Østbanen (Køge - Hårlev - Fakse Ladeplads/Rødvig) to Roskilde.

About Regionstog (now technically Lokaltog) servicing the line to Gedser, this has been suggested and offered, but the offer was refused by Banedanmark and others. By the way, a similar suggestion has been made about the line Nykøbing - Rødby Færge, but this was also refused.


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## bongo-anders

Why so serious :lol:


My station would have been placed north of Toreby.


https://map.krak.dk/m/qvNRa


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## bongo-anders

An Austrian company has wonder the job of building the double track and rebuild the existing track on the Ringsted Femern line but only to Nykøbing F. 

The job consist of... 
60km of new track. 
Renovation of the rest of the tracks. 
Replacement or construction of 52 track switch. 
100.000 new "sveller" can't remember the english name but the concrete slats that the tracks are placed on. 
Rebuild Vordingborg and Orehoved stations in preperation of the Storstrøms Bridge 

Construction time is from Spring 2018 to 2021

https://www.building-supply.dk/arti...renor_lander_kontrakt_pa_ringstedfemern_banen


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## flierfy

bongo-anders said:


> 100.000 new "sveller" can't remember the english name but the concrete slats that the tracks are placed on.


Sleeper


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## bongo-anders

That's the one somehow I couldn't remember the name.


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## bongo-anders

Work on Køge Nord station.


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## bongo-anders

Køge Nord station from today.

If you notice the curve in one of the pictures you can see why the speed limit in the Køge curve is 230 km/h instead of 250 km/h.


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## bongo-anders

I trespassed the Køge Nord construction site today and got these pictures

The first part of the bridge should be lifted up over the S-train line the night between Friday and Saturday So expect some pictures already next weekend.


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## 00Zy99

What train is that with the bicycle symbols?


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## vigiliant

^^ It's a Copenhagen suburban S-train (København S-tog). The type is Alstom/Siemens Litra and the bike symbol just indicates that you can place your bike at that particular part of the train car


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## AlexNL

The line is planned to open next year, if I remember correctly. Has it been decided yet who will run the trains, and what rolling stock will be used?


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## 1993matias

The first trains will be from Nivå to Køge Nord twice per hour, extended to Køge when the line is ready for it, then to Næstved. I think there is an official statement somewhere about this


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## bongo-anders

What we know so far is that the train will run between (Nivå) - Copenhagen - Køge Nord.
Then its later extended to Køge Nord and finally Næstved. 
This is because that the line between Roskilde Køge and Næstved is a test line for the new ERTMS level 2 system.
The northern part between Roskilde and Køge is ready first in the spring of 2019 and that is the reason why they will start with only running to Køge Nord.
Køge Næstved should be ready later in 2019 if I remember correctly.

When the major track works around Ringsted is done in 2019 they will start to send all the other trains over the new railway.

The only trains that will stop at Køge Nord are the 2 hourly trains between Nivå and Næstved, one hourly Express train between Copenhagen and Nykøbing F and then one Intercity train each hour.

So 4 trains each hour and each direction together with 6 S-trains each hour and in each direction.


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## bongo-anders

Funding for part 1 of the timeplanen project is now secured after, Dansk Folkeparti, Socialdemokraterne, Radikale Venstre and others made a deal without the governing parties Venstre, Konservative and Liberal Alliance. 

Part 1 costs 15 billion danish kroner and for that you get.

A 35 kilometer line between Odense and Middelfart on western Funen that costs 4,5 billion.

Electrification of the line between Roskilde and Kalundborg and Fredericia and Aalborg.

Speed upgrades between Fredericia and Hobro, they will get rid of sharp curves etc etc
What the top speed will be is not known yet but I´m guessing they will just remove speed restrictions.

Hobro Aalborg is speed upgraded to 200 km/h

Long distance platforms at Ny Ellebjerg so passengers trains to and from Copenhagen Airport can stop at this soon to be huge intersection.
Currently its the terminus for S-train line F, Line A and E stops here as well.
It will be a stop on the Copenhagen Ringsted High Speed line and terminus for Metro line M4 when it opens in 2023.

Then some boring stuff like internet on the trains and projects to increase freight traffic in northern jutland.


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## JumpUp

So it will be a new railway from Odense to Middelfart? When will it get built?


----------



## bongo-anders

This investment frame is from 2018 to 2025 so I imagine that all the projects will be build in this timeframe.

Btw they have chosen the northern alignment and that's the reason why its 500 million more expensive.

The advantage is this alignment is that its avoid the more populated areas south of the Fynsmotorvejen motorway.

But they have to relocate a gas pipe that runs along the motorway.


----------



## ulca01

The 2018 to 2025 seems somewhat unlikely to me. 

Why? 

Because the new line Copenhagen - Køge - Ringsted has been debated and discussed since the late 1980's, while some for example the DSB wanted a 5th between Høje Taastrup and Roskilde instead, until it was finally decided to build the new line. 

Knowing Danish politicians and their eager to get things done, at least when it comes to public transportation, I can not shake the feeling that it will be sometime between 2030 and 2035 before any of those projects will be build or completed.


----------



## bongo-anders

The difference is that the railway over Funen has been through the systems with VVM studies and town hall meetings etc for around 3 years now so its far beyond just talking about it.

But as I also said, there hasn´t been anything concrete announced (like what speed upgrades we see between Fredericia and Hobro) so until we see something announced its just my guess.


BTW DSB wanted a 5th track between Hvidovre Fjern and Høje Taastrup (2 for S-train and 3 for long distance trains), Høje Taastrup Roskilde already has 4 tracks for long distance trains as the S-train only goes as far as Høje Taastrup.


----------



## bongo-anders

Woop woop finally the high speed line start to looks like something.


The pictures are taken from the Kongsted Nord Service station east of Ringsted on E20 Vestmotorvejen.

I don´t have pictures of the rest of the works but the poles has reached Salbyvej west of Køge but only on the inbound tracks.

There was poles on both track as far as Ejbyvej (as I recall)


----------



## Never give up

Revised togfund project goes ahead.

http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...pproves-revised-togfond-plan.html?channel=537


----------



## dysharmonica

Some Norwegian coverage of Banedanmark 

https://www.tu.no/artikler/ny-metod...skinner-for-a-avslore-stoy-og-slitasje/409131


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## bongo-anders

The Storstrøms Bridge contracts is awarded to an italian consortium.

http://www.vejdirektoratet.dk/DA/ve...ider/De-skal-bygge-den-nye-Storstrømsbro.aspx


----------



## bongo-anders

And some old news not reportet here.

Swietelsky Baugesellschaft from austria will rebuild the Fehmarn rail line. (now called sydbanen or the southern railway)

https://www.building-supply.dk/arti...renor_lander_kontrakt_pa_ringstedfemern_banen


----------



## NordikNerd

*Only one train per hour will run on the new line.*

Only one train per hour will run on the new railway between Copenhagen and Ringsted.

The capacity can not be fully utilized due to signal problems.


When the new high speed railway between Copenhagen and Ringsted opens in December next year, there will be a maximum of one train per hour on the line, 
writes the technical magazine Ingeniøren.
The reason is trouble installing a new signal system in the trains, says Jan Schneider-Tilli, Project Director in Banedanmark.









The railway between Copenhagen and Ringsted is a public prestige project of around 1.2 billion EUR. 
It will relieve traffic on the line between Høje Taastrup and Valby, which has been a big bottleneck for a long time.


----------



## touya

bongo-anders said:


> A 35 kilometer line between Odense and Middelfart on western Funen that costs 4,5 billion.


What will be the maximum speed for the line? At 17 million Euro per km it does not look like high speed.


----------



## 1993matias

touya said:


> What will be the maximum speed for the line? At 17 million Euro per km it does not look like high speed.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but like the Køge-Ringsted line it will probably be made for 250 kph, with the track layout prepared for higher speeds.


----------



## bongo-anders

250 is the max speed but top speed of 280 or 300 have been mentioned .


----------



## Klausenburg

The mysterious buyer of the three IC2 trains is *Astra Transcarpatic* from Romania. One of the trains was already painted:



Source: http://www.forumtrenuri.com/t4947p135-material-rulant


----------



## Nikolaj

bongo-anders said:


> 250 is the max speed but top speed of 280 or 300 have been mentioned .


Equipped for 250 km/h, but prepared for 300 km/h


----------



## AlexNL

NordikNerd said:


> When the new high speed railway between Copenhagen and Ringsted opens in December next year, there will be a maximum of one train per hour on the line,
> writes the technical magazine Ingeniøren.
> The reason is trouble installing a new signal system in the trains, says Jan Schneider-Tilli, Project Director in Banedanmark.


Sounds like they're implementing temporary block working until the signalling issues are resolved?


----------



## dysharmonica

AlexNL said:


> Sounds like they're implementing temporary block working until the signalling issues are resolved?


The signaling on the tracks seems ready / on time - it's the train conversions that are behind - apparently IC3/IR4 are hard to convert to convert and the project is FAR behind schedule meaning that there will not be enough trains ready to ride on the line. So for a while there would not be enough trains to fill the capacity -- and they would roll out gradually. 

The alternative - temporarily adding the old signaling to the tracks is an option, but would also not be ready for the opening late next year. 

They just moved the project director from the line itself (which is on time and on budget) to the signaling project (replacing signaling on all trains and all lines in DK) to get that project in shape .. we will see.


----------



## Coccodrillo

Another pic and a video of the new life of the IC2: http://clubferoviar.ro/astra-trans-carpatic-isi-extinde-parcul-de-material-rulant-cu-15-automotoare/


----------



## milipumba

The first big lift at Køge Nord station was today. 
This piece has a lengh on 40 meters, and a weight on 160 tons.
5 more sections are waiting to be put in place, before the end of the year. 


milipumba said:


> Today was the big day, for me and many more people in Køge.


----------



## milipumba

And the finished result. 
And there is only 13 month to the grand opening.


----------



## Never give up

The first section of the Køge Nord station bridge being lifted into position over the S train line.

Photo Banedanmark.


----------



## dysharmonica

Køge Nord segment installation video 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK5d4fcPR8Q

EDIT: and another - a timelapse

https://youtu.be/vG0KEgFzy50


----------



## bongo-anders

Ølbyvej from today first seen towards west and then east Northeast.


----------



## bongo-anders

Some bad and not so bad news from todays meeting with the transport minister.

The very bad news is that the last part of the signalling programe is done in 2030 instead of 2023.

The not so bad news is that instead of opening the new railwayline between Copenhagen and Ringsted in December 2018 with one train each hour they will wait until May 2019 and open with 5 trains pr hour in each direction.

The delay here is also because of the signalling programme but the reason is that not enough trains has the ERTMS installed in due time.


----------



## JumpUp

What problems will result from the 7 year delay of ETCS? Just a reduced velocity / travel time?


----------



## bongo-anders

I thinks so, the current signalling system is capable of 180 km/h

It also means that the electrification programme on Sjælland is changed a little bit.


Ringsted Næsted will de done by 2021
Roskilde Holbæk by 2022
Holbæk Kalundborg by 2024
Næstved Nykøbing F by 2024 (in time for the new Storestrøm bridge)

Copenhagen Køge Nord Ringsted should still be ready for a soft opening in December 2019 with electrification and all.

Køge Nord Næstved should still be ready in 2020.


----------



## Never give up

international Railway Journal.

First with the detailed news and consequences of the signalling programme delay.

http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...lout-facing-seven-year-delay.html?channel=532


----------



## Gizmen

Hi everyone,

I read last 20 pages but a haven't found what I'm looking for. 
Could someone tell me what speed trains will be passing (without stopping) station Koge Nord? As I see it seems to be more than 200 km/h, 230/250 km/h. If yes, will be used on platforms german solutions (from line Berlin - Hamburg) or something different? 
Are danish rules for railway platforms on line?


----------



## milipumba

I know that there is a speed restriction on 230 km/h in the curve south of the station.
But I don't know if that include the station. 
I do however know that the 2 sidetrack has a speed limit on 100-120 km/h. 
And that is because of the connection to the lille syd line is sharp. 

The first part of the railroad, from Copenhagen to Vallensbæk, will be restricted to just under 200 km/h


----------



## dysharmonica

https://ing.dk/andre-skriver/dsb-tager-alle-me-lokomotiver-ud-passagerdrift-210178



> *DSB tager alle ME-lokomotiver ud af passagerdrift
> tog me lokomotiv dsb jernbane banedanmark forurening*
> Af Steffen McGhie Følg @McGhieSteffen 26. jan 2018 kl. 21:24
> DSB har her til aften besluttet at tage sine 33 ME-lokomotiver ud til kontroleftersyn henover weekenden. Årsagen er, at der ved et eftersyn af to aksler fra ME-lokomotiver er konstateret begyndende revnedannelser, skriver DSB i en pressemeddelelse.


----------



## bongo-anders

Talking about locomotives.

The 3 preferred bidders for the electric lokomotives are Siemens (most likely Vectron) Skoda (maybe the Emil one they have build for DB) and Bombardier (most likely Traxx)

All versions is found in a 160 km/h and 200 km/h version so I hope they go for 200.

A winner will be announced here in February.


----------



## dysharmonica

bongo-anders said:


> Talking about locomotives.
> 
> The 3 preferred bidders for the electric lokomotives are Siemens (most likely Vectron) Skoda (maybe the Emil one they have build for DB) and Bombardier (most likely Traxx)
> 
> All versions is found in a 160 km/h and 200 km/h version so I hope they go for 200.
> 
> A winner will be announced here in February.


it would be stupid for them to not go for the 200kmh version given that they have 1 200kmh line almost open and another under construction and several others in planning. :fingers crossed:


----------



## bongo-anders

Well 250 to be precise, if you talk about Copenhagen-Ringsted

But Hobro-Aalborg, Ringsted-Odense and Ringsted-Fehmarn is planned for 200 km/h so it makes sense.

Also the catenarys on the new finished electrification of Lunderskov-Esbjerg is build for 200 km/h, only the trak and signaling is build for 180 km/h. 

But then they would need new wagons as the current double decker wagons is only build for a top speed of 160 km/h.


----------



## dysharmonica

bongo-anders said:


> Well 250 to be precise, if you talk about Copenhagen-Ringsted
> 
> But Hobro-Aalborg, Ringsted-Odense and Ringsted-Fehmarn is planned for 200 km/h so it makes sense.
> 
> Also the catenarys on the new finished electrification of Lunderskov-Esbjerg is build for 200 km/h, only the trak and signaling is build for 180 km/h.
> 
> But then they would need new wagons as the current double decker wagons is only build for a top speed of 160 km/h.


But they will get new wagons ... eventually. They just need to start upgrading everything to 200kmh now .. and a few things (that will go on the new PBH-Ringsted to 250kmh ... Obviously, it will not happen overnight, but they do need to start somewhere and new locomotives, I believe is the right time to start - those things stick around for a long time and are expensive to replace. 

Wagons are pennies in comparison, and easily sold elsewhere if they need to be prematurely replaced for speed reason.


----------



## bongo-anders

The minister for transport will now send out a tender for 150 EMU's.

I can't find that info yet but the debate before the deal was made with the other members of the opposition, was if they needed a single fleet of 200 km/h EMU's or if they where to split up the order. 
Then it would be a commuter fleet with a top speed of around 160 km/h and a intercity fleet with a top speed of 250 km/h.

There is 11 billion kroner to buy trains for, I don't know what a single train costs but it sounda like alot of money.


----------



## bongo-anders

More on the subject.

It seems like they have settled on a fleet of trains with a top speed of 200 km/h and a later purchase of trains with a 250 km/h top speed


http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...view/inter-city-emu-procurement-approved.html


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## M-NL

This tender also includes the replacement of the IC4. Wouldn't it be both ironic and interesting if Hitachi Rail Italy were to win this tender.


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## bongo-anders

Don't even think about it :lol:


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## bongo-anders

But as I have head the 4 top contenders are Alstom Coradia Stream, Bombardier Talent 3, Stadler Flirt and CAF Civity.

All 4 can be delivered in a 200 km/h version but so far only the flirt is in use, Civity will be put in service in England In 2019 and Stream will be delivered in The Netherlands in 2021.

So for tested and proved trains only the flirt will do for now.


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## otternase

M-NL said:


> A subseries of the SNCB M6 is suitable and used for 200 km/h service.



yes, that might be a viable option. What is the operational experience with these coaches? I know, that they are operated in a different, tighter maintenance regime compared to the 170km/h version...





M-NL said:


> The SNCF Régio2N Interville is also partly double deck and suited for 200 km/h.
> And really thinking outside of the box: You could also create a 200 km/h version of the double deck TGV.



Turning an intermediate coach of an EMU into a stand-alone coach does normally not work, the requirements on static and dynamic loads the carbody must withstand are much more demanding for coaches compared to EMU cars.
Furthermore, as I understand, the TGV double-deck intermediate cars are designed for seated passengers only, not allowing for the 4pax/sqm load required for homologation on routes where no compulsory seat reservation exists.


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## M-NL

otternase said:


> Turning an intermediate coach of an EMU into a stand-alone coach does normally not work, the requirements on static and dynamic loads the carbody must withstand are much more demanding for coaches compared to EMU cars.
> Furthermore, as I understand, the TGV double-deck intermediate cars are designed for seated passengers only, not allowing for the 4pax/sqm load required for homologation on routes where no compulsory seat reservation exists.


In both cases they merely served as an indication that both Bombardier and Alstom have built trains in the recent past that may a good starting point.
As I said multiple times before: there is no such thing as an of the shelf train. Every train is tailored to the company it is built for.


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## K_

otternase said:


> But in case of the coaches, are there any double-deck coaches fit for 200km/h proven in service?


There are of course the SBB IC2000 coaches which see a lot of 200kph running daily, and which formed the basis of the new Bombardier Twindex trainsets.

When the SBB asked for offers for new IC Trains Stadler and Siemens offered as well. I'm sure that both still have the designs somewhere...

The concept of the SBB IC double deck trains lends itself well for long distance traffic, with an uninterupted upper floor (making minibar service possible), and level boarding on the lower floor.


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## otternase

M-NL said:


> As I said multiple times before: there is no such thing as an of the shelf train. Every train is tailored to the company it is built for.



VERY TRUE


But: DSB wants the coaches to go into service rather soon (simultanously with the locomotives, but I don't think that will work) and DSB is procurring a rather small fleet (just to replace the IC3 with DB package and the ICE-TD, which are already out of service; this likely translates to 8 formations)


So any significant new development, any special requirements will result in significant extra cost (one-time development can be spread on only a small number of coaches) and potential delays.
Thus I would not expect a redeveloped intermediate coach of an EMU turned into a standard passenger coach.




> There are of course the SBB IC2000 coaches which see a lot of 200kph running daily, and which formed the basis of the new Bombardier Twindex trainsets.



yes, a modernized version of the IC2000 coaches would be a promising thing. But the Twindexx on the DB Intercity are not performing well and are likely not fit for 200km/h and the Twindexx Express is an EMU and I don't know if the intermediate coaches of that one can be turned into standard passenger coaches?


As far as I see it the SNCB M7 and the Skoda NIM Express coaches are the only potential options for doubledeck, but both are not yet in operation, so they are a bit "risky"


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## AlexNL

otternase said:


> But: DSB wants the coaches to go into service rather soon (simultanously with the locomotives, but I don't think that will work) and DSB is procurring a rather small fleet (just to replace the IC3 with DB package and the ICE-TD, which are already out of service; this likely translates to 8 formations)


Let's just hope that they pay some attention to comfort. I did Copenhagen - Hamburg on an IC3 a couple of months ago and I absolutely loved that journey, but I dread doing it in a DSB or DB Regio Dosto.


> But the Twindexx on the DB Intercity are not performing well


They've had some teething issues, but as far as I am aware they are doing fine. I traveled on one a couple of months ago (Hannover - Leipzig I believe it was) and that was a good journey.

Of course, N = 1, but I can't complain.


> and are likely not fit for 200km/h and the Twindexx Express is an EMU and I don't know if the intermediate coaches of that one can be turned into standard passenger coaches?


The Twindexx Vario used by DB Regio and DB Fernverkehr are for 160 km/h max. There's been some talk of uprating them to 189 km/h, but so far this has not yet materialised.

In Schleswig-Holstein DB use Twindexx powercars (Baureihe 445).


> As far as I see it the SNCB M7 and the Skoda NIM Express coaches are the only potential options for doubledeck, but both are not yet in operation, so they are a bit "risky"


Bombardier have the OMNEO (a.k.a. Régio2N) which is available in a 200 km/h variant. These are currently being built and will enter service in France in the forseeable future.


----------



## Never give up

Progress on the new interchange station Ny Ellebjerg, showing relocation of the S train platforms to allow construction of the underground Metro station..


----------



## Never give up

https://www.globalrailnews.com/2018/07/10/refreshed-ic3-interiors-revealed/


----------



## otternase

AlexNL said:


> Let's just hope that they pay some attention to comfort. I did Copenhagen - Hamburg on an IC3 a couple of months ago and I absolutely loved that journey, but I dread doing it in a DSB or DB Regio Dosto.



compared to the new coaches DB Regio Bavaria bought for the Munich-Nuremberg line (Skoda) the Bombardier Regio Dosto are rather comfortable and spacious!


The travel time between Hamburg and Copenhagen will be somewhere around 2.5 hours once the Femarn-Tunnel is ready, that is not really long-distance travel time, more like the duration spend on a normal regional journey, so I would not expect more comfort than on regional trains.




AlexNL said:


> The Twindexx Vario used by DB Regio and DB Fernverkehr are for 160 km/h max. There's been some talk of uprating them to 189 km/h, but so far this has not yet materialised.



As far as I remember the doubledeck IC coaches were initially homologated for 189km/h but due to problems in operation speed was later reduced?



AlexNL said:


> Bombardier have the OMNEO (a.k.a. Régio2N) which is available in a 200 km/h variant. These are currently being built and will enter service in France in the forseeable future.



OMNEO is an EMU, I think they are not relevant for the coaches project of DSB. But they might be an interesting option for the much bigger New Trains procurement!


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## JumpUp

The new double-deck "IC 2" coaches have always been a top-speed of 160 km/h. There used to be a discussion to *maybe* upgrade that top speed to 189 km/h, but that is already yesterday's news. 

So they never were faster than 160 km/h


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## dysharmonica

The Masnedsundbro replacement is progressing. This project repalces and outdated single-track line on a movable bridge with a high speed double-track line on a fixed bridge - a preparation for the link between Denmark and Hamburg 












dysharmonica said:


> Some updates from BaneDK about the Masnedsundbro replacement
> 
> Foundations are being built
> https://www.instagram.com/p/Blc60pPg2dR/?hl=da
> https://www.facebook.com/ringstedfe...677292292915/2079664502294194/?type=3&theater
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And bridge elements are on their way to DK:
> https://www.instagram.com/p/Bkz0F34Aq1k/


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## otternase

Finally ÖBB has awarded Siemens the coach tender:

https://www.ots.at/presseaussendung...ag-und-nachtverkehr-an-bestbieter-ist-siemens

I assume, these coaches will be likely candidates for DSB as well... With Siemens Vectron and Siemens coaches this would at least simplify the train control and monitoring interface between coaches and locomotive and especially simplify questions of responsibility and warrenty for the compatibility between coaches and locomotive...


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## dysharmonica

dysharmonica said:


> The Masnedsundbro replacement is progressing. This project repalces and outdated single-track line on a movable bridge with a high speed double-track line on a fixed bridge - a preparation for the link between Denmark and Hamburg


and, the bridge elements have been placed 



bongo-anders said:


> Aaaaaaand its done.
> 
> 
> It will open for traffic in December 2019.
> 
> https://www.tveast.dk/nyheder/29-07-2018/1930/bro-pa-plads?***********#player












Facts about the bridge (Google translated, so .. yeah) (source: https://www.bane.dk/Presse/Pressemeddelelser/1100-tons-tunge-broelementer-ankommet-til-Vordingborg)



> *Facts about the Masnedsund Bridge
> *
> - The new Masnedsund bridge will be 200 meters long
> - The bridge consists of 5 bropiles and 6 bridge tires. They weigh in the area of ​​the 1100-tonne piece
> - A bridge deck is approx. 30 meters in length. A bridge pilons approx. 10 meters in height.
> - It will be possible to drive at speeds up to 200 km / h over the bridge instead of the current 100 km / h
> - When the bridge is ready, there will be pedestrian access under the bridge for soft road users.
> - The new bridge is completed in autumn 2019, and then there will be an opportunity to take it into use
> - The bridge is built in concrete, unlike the existing bridge, which is built in steel. It will reduce noise from trains as they drive over the bridge.
> - Noise screens are established on the eastern side of the bridge.


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## dysharmonica

On Kystbanen (Coastal railway) - a suburban line north of Copenhagen, work continues on rehabilitation of the entire line. The line is closed only for the summer period, so work is done at a fast pace.

Banedanmark shared some videos of a bridge replacement element being moved into place. 



dysharmonica said:


> On Kystbanen -- Mollevej in Nivå got a new bridge (timelapse video at link)
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/kystbanensporfornyelse/videos/1088614387955660/
> 
> another video:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and here is an older video from 2015 documenting the whole 5 day process


----------



## dysharmonica

Over the past weekend, Banedenmark has places another segment of Køge Nord station in place. This new station in the southern suburbs of Copenhagen connects a station at the new high-speed line between Copenhagen and Ringsted, to an S-train station over a busy motorway. The design calls for an enclosed bridge to span the road and connect the stations on either end: 









Presentation from COBE Architects
Official project website



dysharmonica said:


> TIMELAPSE posted by BaneDK on FB
> 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/banedanmark/videos/1306944206104968/
> 
> And another video from BaneDK
> https://www.facebook.com/banedanmark/videos/1306628939469828/





Never give up said:


> Video from TV2 Lorry of the lift.
> 
> https://www.tv2lorry.dk/artikel/saadan-ser-det-ud-naar-enorme-broelementer-hejses-over-motorvej


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## bongo-anders

It has been a long time since my last photo from Køge Nord but Finally there is something new to see. :cheers:


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## dysharmonica

All 33 ME locomotives are finally back in service. There aging diesel locomotives are key to regional transport around the capital, but were pulled off service in late winter after cracks in their axles were discovered. All 33 had to be repaired, crippling the commuter and regional transport around Copenhagen that most depends on these locomotives. 












> Efter måneder med forsinkelser: 33 lokomotiver tilbage på sjællandske skinner
> En lang periode med forsinkelser og propfyldte pendlertog er slut. Samtlige af DSB's 33 ME-lokomotiver er nemlig tilbage på sporene.


https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/regionale/sjaelland/glade-pendlere-me-lokomotiver-er-tilbage-paa-skinnerne


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## JumpUp

Hey 

Can somebody give me the newest information on the "Ringsted - Copenhagen" High-Speed-Rail?

When will it be open for passenger traffic (summer 2019?) and what trains / lines will use the new line from the beginning?

Any chance that the "Copenhagen - Hamburg" or "Aarhus - Copenhagen" trains will be using that new line from the first day?

THANKS


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## dysharmonica

Some new videos from Banedanmark referring to work mentioned earlier. 



dysharmonica said:


> Just found this animation on Masnedsundsbro - pretty damn cool! :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also finally on Youtube is the timelapse from the Køge Nord installation this summer:


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## korbendallas

JumpUp said:


> Hey
> 
> Can somebody give me the newest information on the "Ringsted - Copenhagen" High-Speed-Rail?
> 
> When will it be open for passenger traffic (summer 2019?) and what trains / lines will use the new line from the beginning?
> 
> Any chance that the "Copenhagen - Hamburg" or "Aarhus - Copenhagen" trains will be using that new line from the first day?
> 
> THANKS


Opening date is may 2019. However how many trains are going on the stretch is not quite known yet, as it has ERTMS signalling, for which trains are currently being rebuilt to support. 

So it depends on the amount of trains are available on may 2019.


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## Never give up

korbendallas said:


> Opening date is may 2019. However how many trains are going on the stretch is not quite known yet, as it has ERTMS signalling, for which trains are currently being rebuilt to support.
> 
> So it depends on the amount of trains are available on may 2019.



Because of the delay in fitting ERTMS equipment in the existing trains, the new line will be fitted out with conventional signaling, hense the 6 month delay in opening. This means that will be possible to run limited service from maj 2019.
Here is an update photo of the new line, just after it leaves the old line via Roskilde and passes under a new flyover (2nd photo) for the trains (mainly freight) heading for Sweden.
This is a short cut and cover tunnel close to a housing area. The area on the top of the tunnel will be landscaped.


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## bongo-anders

I think I heard something about 5 trains in each direction when it opens but I'm not sure.

The trains to Køge and Næstved will first run in 2021 or 2022, I'm not totally sure about the date.


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## bongo-anders

Pictures from todays lift(s).

As you can see they had done the first one when we arrived, after a photo tour around Køge and lunch we came back because the rumour that the second lift had started began to circulate.

But the wind was to strong so they cancelled the lift, the latest is that they will try around 23:00 tonight.


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## bongo-anders

Some pictures from todays delayed lift, they got one part of the bridge and one staircase to the eastern platform in place.


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## dysharmonica

And videos from Banedanmark from the lifts 



dysharmonica said:


> Timelapse and Drone footage from Banedanmark


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## bongo-anders

A couple more from Banedanmark.


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## bongo-anders

It is announced today that DSB will movie their locomotive workshop from Otte Busses Vej in the southern part of central Copenhagen and out to Næstved in southern Zealand (Sjælland).

They will close the workshop when the final diesel locomotive is retired in 2025.

The new workshop will handle the electric locomotives (Litra EB) and their single and double deck wagons.

It will not be entirely done with workshops in Copenhagen as the prefered location for the maintenance center/workshop for the future EMU's in eastern Denmark will most likely be located next door to the maintenance and control center for M3 and M4 of the Copenhagen metro.

The contract for the new EMU's are made in a way so the chosen bidder (so not DSB) will also maintain the trains in a certain timeframe.

There will be facilities for the new trains in either Fredericia or Aarhus in the west and Copenhagen in the east.


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## 00Zy99

So all diesel locomotives in Denmark are to be retired?

What will replace them? Battery-electrics?


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## bongo-anders

No Siemens Vectron electric locomotives, In Denmark they will be called Litra EB.

The locomotives mostly runs on the regional network in eastern Denmark and on the Copenhagen Hamburg route. 
perhaps also to Odense, Fredericia Esbjerg and Sønderborg but that will moste be the Litra ER (aka IR4)

The first routes will be from Helsingør to Copenhagen and from there to Korsør, Slagelse and Ringsted both via Roskilde and Køge Nord. 
From 2020/21 it will will also be from Køge Nord via Køge to Næstved.

By 2024 also Næstved to Nykøbing F and Roskilde to Holbæk is electrified and a few years after that also Holbæk to Kalundborg and then all lines in eastern Denmark is electrified except a small part from Nykøbing F to Rødby.

Litra MF (IC3) and Litra MG (IC4) will serve the other lines in Jylland north of Fredericia until the electrification programme reach that part of Denmark in the mid to late 20'ies.

By that time the EMU's should all be delivered and the only diesel lines left are the ones Arriva runs.


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## otternase

bongo-anders said:


> the only diesel lines left are the ones Arriva runs.



what about the diesel lines operated by DSB with low passenger volumes
Fredericia-Struer
Odense-Svendborg
and everything north of Aalborg operated by DSB


Do you really think they will be electrified at all and if so, already in the late 20ies?
I would expect that at least the Desiro DMUs (some of which were procured less than 10 years ago) will stay in service for much longer...


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## AlexNL

bongo-anders said:


> except a small part from Nykøbing F to Rødby.


Won't that be picked up as part of the Fehmarnbelt project?


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## bongo-anders

Off course I forgot Odense Svenborg that will remain as a "diesel" line.

But I´m guessing that the state will hand that line over to a private operator as well.


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## dysharmonica

bongo-anders said:


> Off course I forgot Odense Svenborg that will remain as a "diesel" line.
> 
> But I´m guessing that the state will hand that line over to a private operator as well.


Is that line still run by DSB? I thought for sure that it was run by some local traffic operator


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## bongo-anders

Not to my knowledge.


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## JumpUp

https://www.railwaygazette.com/news...iew/view/danish-fleet-renewal-goes-ahead.html

_As an interim step, DSB is to purchase between 40 and 56 loco-hauled coaches for delivery in 2019-20. These are expected to be carrying passengers by 2022, being deployed in push-pull operation with 16 Siemens Vectron electric locomotives to be ordered as an option on the contract for 26 awarded earlier this year_

Is it already known what type of coaches that will be and what company (Siemens?) will supply them? Or is the tendering yet not finished?


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## 1993matias

JumpUp said:


> https://www.railwaygazette.com/news...iew/view/danish-fleet-renewal-goes-ahead.html
> 
> _As an interim step, DSB is to purchase between 40 and 56 loco-hauled coaches for delivery in 2019-20. These are expected to be carrying passengers by 2022, being deployed in push-pull operation with 16 Siemens Vectron electric locomotives to be ordered as an option on the contract for 26 awarded earlier this year_
> 
> Is it already known what type of coaches that will be and what company (Siemens?) will supply them? Or is the tendering yet not finished?



The tender is not closed yet, so no option has been decided. But I've seen online discussions mentioning Siemens a lot since they have also provided the locomotives


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## otternase

1993matias said:


> The tender is not closed yet, so no option has been decided. But I've seen online discussions mentioning Siemens a lot since they have also provided the locomotives



I guess since Siemens has won the ÖBB tender for coaches they might right now have the most modern product to offer... The fact that the combination of Siemens locos and Siemens coaches tends to limit problems on TCN will also help.
But Siemens might have not the capacity to produce within this time frame since they have the ÖBB coaches for production now?


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## bongo-anders

The tender is here if you guys want a look.

https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:385699-2018:TEXT:EN:HTML&src=0


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## dysharmonica

Some more on the new wagon tender: 



dysharmonica said:


> A relatively in-depth analysis from ING.dk about the order for new carriages/wagon and why DSB is planning to run 2 locos (the new Vectrons) with them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - no driving car (besides Skoda) approved for >160km/h
> - A driving car would need to be custom built - the order is too small to justify it / DSB is not interested in entering into another high-risk custom-built project.
> - 200kmh requirement is future-proofing as the rails get upgrades for higher speeds.
> - Especially when the Fehmarn fixed link opens, DSB needs to be ready with something functional.
> - The cost is 10-40% higher power consumption, but it is worth it given the need for flexibility during this time of change / lack of suitable other options
> - These trains will replace IC3s on their service to Hamburg -- these IC3s will replace IC4s in service in Denmark -- so in effect this investment is part of phasing out IC4s
> 
> https://ing.dk/artikel/dsb-saetter-lokomotiver-begge-ender-spritnye-tog-214188




And test drives have begun on the new high-speed line south-west of Copenhagen: 



dysharmonica said:


> Test drives on København Ringsted high speed line have re-started.
> Today, old MR trains are running at 120km/h to test signalling.
> Bane DK is to rent a high speed locomotive in the fall and run "full speed tests" at 250km/h some time in the October/November horizon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source


And finally, Banedanmark posted aerial photos of the Ringsted-Femern line. This project doubletracks, increases speed, and electrifies the line to Southern Sjælland in preparation for the fixed link to Germany, The operational speed of this line will be 200km/h



dysharmonica said:


> Banedanmark posted a set of aerial photos of the Ringsted-Femern Line construction
> 
> SOURCE


----------



## MarcVD

No double deck driving cars approved for more than 160 km/h ? They could have joined SNCB for the M7 cars order...


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## dysharmonica

MarcVD said:


> No double deck driving cars approved for more than 160 km/h ? They could have joined SNCB for the M7 cars order...


This order is not for doubledeck. This is for single-deck. But the M7s seem close enough.


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## wbrm

bongo-anders said:


> Talgo, Bombardier and Siemens is prequalified by DSB to make the carriages for the locomotive hauled trains (the ones with a locomotive in each end)


Bombardier is replaced by CAF as Bombardier withdrew.
So the new possible winner is: CAF, Siemens or Talgo.


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## bongo-anders

Restrictions on the so called pocket wagons crossing Storebælt after last weeks deadly accident that killed 8 people. 

In short, a trailer from the freight train blew off the first wagon (or hang out from the side) and crashed into the side of a passing IC4 train. 
This resulting in the left side of the first wagon in 
the passenger train was cut open. 

https://www.railjournal.com/freight/denmark-bans-pocket-wagons-after-great-belt-accident/


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## bongo-anders

And time for some more positive news, All the portals seems to be in place at Køge station.


Very randomly a IC3 train was replacing one of the Liltra MQ trains on the service to Roskilde.


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## wbrm

wbrm said:


> Bombardier is replaced by CAF as Bombardier withdrew.
> So the new possible winner is: CAF, Siemens or Talgo.


Yet another change as CAF pulled out of the tender. So only Siemens and Talgo remain.


----------



## JumpUp

Hey 

In June 2019, the new High-Speed-Rail "Copenhagen - Ringsted" will partly open.
What is the upcoming timetable from June 2019? 1 Train / hour, if yes, what existing service will be re-routet?

Thanks


----------



## milipumba

The fast regional train from Nykøbing F(1 tph), will use the new line from the start.

And because of some delayed construction work in Ringsted. Will the Intercity Lyn service to Aalborg(1 tph), first be rerouted to the new line in August.
Both lines will stop at Køge Nord station. 

In december will a Intercity service(Maybe the one to Esbjerg and Sønderborg) also begin to run on the new line.
This service will then stop at Køge Nord, instead the IC Lyn.

From december 2019 to spring/summer 2021 will there only be 3 trains per hour.
And 2 of them will be stopping at Køge Nord station.

In 2021, after a upgrade of the signaling system at Køge Nord station, will there be added 1 more regional line from Næstved via Køge(2 tph).

I don´t know if there will be added more lines in 2024, then the high speed rail line will turn on the ERTMS signal. 

There will be no freight trains on the this line, before the mainline to Jylland is upgraded with ERTMS.
And that is sometime in the late twenties.

I hope my rambling is understandable.


----------



## jonasry

So, what about the Copenhagen-Hamburg train? I've heard rumors it will be rerouted via Jylland from December 2019. But it could of course benefit from faster travel times via the new high speed rail.


----------



## TER200

milipumba said:


> I hope my rambling is understandable.


 Yes, thank you.


What rolling stock will use this line ? IC3/IR4s ? Dostos for the REs ?


----------



## milipumba

December 2019 sounds about right.
Ringsted to Næstved will be closed for about 6 month in 2020 
And south of Næstved will be closed severel times in 2021-2023.
And the line between Nykøbing and Lübeck, will be closed when the Fehmarn tunnel starts construction. 
And that is sheduled to start in 2021. If nothing serious happens in the German court. 

So i think that the Hamburg train, will take the tour around Jylland. Atleast until the Fehmarn tunnel is ready around 2029.


----------



## milipumba

TER200 said:


> Yes, thank you.
> 
> 
> What rolling stock will use this line ? IC3/IR4s ? Dostos for the REs ?


The Nykøbing service will be a ME diesel locomotive with doubledecker waggons. 
The line to Nykøbing will be electrified in 2024.
And by that time the new Siemens Vectron locomotive is taking over. 

The regional line Næstved-Køge-Copenhagen will also start up with the Vectron in 2021.

The IC Lyn service will be with IC3. 

The IC service will be with the IR4.( to Esbjerg/Sønderborg) 
But If the service goes to Aarhus, it will also be with the ic3.

All national services is going to get new emu's from 2024. So the IC3, IC4 IR4 and ME only has a few years left.


----------



## TER200

milipumba said:


> The IC service will be with the IC4.( to Esbjerg/Sønderborg)


Isn't it IR4 ? That's what I saw last year when travelling there, as those branches are electrified.
So it seems likely they will reproduce the current consists, combining IC3 for Aarhus and IR4 for Esbjeg in the same train.





milipumba said:


> All national services is going to get new emu's from 2024. So the IC3, IR4 and ME only has a few years left.


 Yes, all DSB trains will be replaced in the next years (except regional trains for secondary lines).
However I couldn't find if those new EMUS will operate at 200 or 250 km/h, do you know ?


----------



## milipumba

They are going for 200 km/h trains, atleast. 

But they won't use all the allocated money now. 
So they talk about buying some high speed trains(min 250 km/h) around 2030.
By that time we should have atleast 2 or 3 more high speed raillines.
Odense to Middelfart in 2026-28

Fredericia to Horsens around 2030. 
Upgrade and a new bridge bypassing Vejle.

Horsens to Aarhus also around 2030.
Upgrade and a new line from hovedgård to Hasselager.


----------



## bongo-anders

Progress on the electrification around Køge.

btw I swear I don´t look out for the IC3´s I just happen to run into them. :lol:















The last one is at my local station in Ølby, well until Køge Nord opens i a few months time.

The island olatform to the left is the S-train.


----------



## Never give up

The first stage of the Interchange station Ny Ellebjerg, is nearly complete and the work with restoring the tracks for the Copenhagen-Køge-Ringsted line, due to open this summer, is now under way.










The stairs from the surface to the sub-terrain circulation area.










The metro station construction site under preparation on the site where the Ring S train line (Linje F) station was located before.










On the opposite side of the high level Køge Bugt S train station, the Copenhagen-Ringsted lines and the site of the Gåsebæk metro cross-over chamber under construction.










Preparation on the site of the entrance on the Valby Park side, between the lines to the Airport on the right and the Copenhagen-Ringsted line on the left. 
I'm sure there will be some pretty dense development on the Gåsebæk chamber site when all the construction work is finished.










….and if you still find it difficult to place all these elements correctly, here is a repeat of the rendering of the final project.


----------



## EMArg

Some shots I've taken on the Copenhagen Central Station (København H) a few months ago:


----------



## EMArg

^^


Video:


----------



## bongo-anders

The opening of Køge Nord station is 2 months away but by the look of it they have alot to do.


----------



## milipumba

milipumba said:


> The fast regional train from Nykøbing F(1 tph), will use the new line from the start.
> 
> And because of some delayed construction work in Ringsted. Will the Intercity Lyn service to Aalborg(1 tph), first be rerouted to the new line in August.
> Both lines will stop at Køge Nord station.
> 
> In december will a Intercity service(Maybe the one to Esbjerg and Sønderborg) also begin to run on the new line.
> This service will then stop at Køge Nord, instead the IC Lyn.
> 
> From december 2019 to spring/summer 2021 will there only be 3 trains per hour.
> And 2 of them will be stopping at Køge Nord station.
> 
> In 2021, after a upgrade of the signaling system at Køge Nord station, will there be added 1 more regional line from Næstved via Køge(2 tph).
> 
> I don´t know if there will be added more lines in 2024, then the high speed rail line will turn on the ERTMS signal.
> 
> There will be no freight trains on the this line, before the mainline to Jylland is upgraded with ERTMS.
> And that is sometime in the late twenties.
> 
> I hope my rambling is understandable.



Some news has arised.

The Intercity Lyn service will already start up on July 8.

The Intercity service starting up in december will not be the one to Esbjerg/Sønderborg.
I´m not sure , but i think it will be the service to Aarhus instead.

The regional service from Næstved via Køge will still start up in 2021.
But for some reason will there only be 1 tph going all the way to Copenhagen/Østerport until 2024.

The other tph will instead go to Roskilde.

Both lines will stop at the same stations from Næstved to Køge

In 2024 will there finally be two tph all the way to Copenhagen, and further on to Nivå.

Btw i changed the info about the regional train, because the lokal media ran a wrong story about it. 

The corrected story can be found here, but only in danish.

https://sn.dk/Koege/Herfoelge-faar-sit-koebenhavnertog-i-2021/artikel/830789


----------



## TER200

Thank you for the update milipumba.


Train top speed has an impact on train design, especially considering DSB doesn't want an all-new design.

200 km/h EMUs can have all-car low-floor (55cm) access (like Alstom's Coradia Stream for the Netherlands or Stadler's Flirt200), while this feature has not been achieved on a faster stock (however ot is possible to have low-floor access cars, like in the EC250 for Switzerland).


----------



## Bobo90

We have 75cm in the netherlands, not 55


----------



## Nikolaj

dysharmonica said:


> ....Work on the tunnel itself (which will be wholy financed and owned by Denmark) and ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LEGEND: the line in denmark in yellow, light blue section for the new Storstrøm bridge, dark blue tunnel, and gray rail in Germany)


Correction: The tunnel itself will be owned by a company entirely owned by the Danish state, BUT FUNDED ENTIRELY BY USERS (TOLLS), which as far as i remember according to forecasts will primarily non-Danes. The Danish state/government will not provide a single Krone to the project.


----------



## eu01

A hundred years ago a railway line existed connecting Vejle with Grindsted via Billund, regrettably dismantled in 1957. 
The old route is illustrated on this Wikimedia map:






In recent years another line to Billund airport and Legoland has been planned along a new route, via Jelling. Is it about to realize?


----------



## 1993matias

eu01 said:


> A hundred years ago a railway line existed connecting Vejle with Grindsted via Billund, regrettably dismantled in 1957.
> The old route is illustrated on this Wikimedia map:[map]
> In recent years another line to Billund airport and Legoland has been planned along a new route, via Jelling. Is it about to realize?


It's dubious, this new line was part of an agreement between the party DF and the rest of the parties in the group that created 'Togfonden', a package of new railway infrastructure projects for the next decades to come. At some point DF left the agreement, so now the other parties really have no incentive to keep the line in the 'Togfonden'. 
It's the same situation with the reopening of Laurbjerg station, DF wanted it in order to vote for the 'Togfonden', but now that DF is not in the picture any more, the other parties have cancelled that project (citing bad economy). 


The question is, how much money do they want to spend on a new Billund railway? If they choose the most basic version (simply a branch from the inchanged mainline) it will reduce capacity drastically on the mainline. If they spend money upgrading the mainline with more passing loops or double track, the cost will increase dramatically. 
In any case, the economy is not good, the public will gain less money than what will be used on the project No matter what according to calculations. 


Bottom line: 
Will it be built? Probably not, but you never know :dunno:


----------



## dysharmonica

1993matias said:


> It's dubious, this new line was part of an agreement between the party DF and the rest of the parties in the group that created 'Togfonden', a package of new railway infrastructure projects for the next decades to come. At some point DF left the agreement, so now the other parties really have no incentive to keep the line in the 'Togfonden'.
> It's the same situation with the reopening of Laurbjerg station, DF wanted it in order to vote for the 'Togfonden', but now that DF is not in the picture any more, the other parties have cancelled that project (citing bad economy).
> 
> 
> The question is, how much money do they want to spend on a new Billund railway? If they choose the most basic version (simply a branch from the inchanged mainline) it will reduce capacity drastically on the mainline. If they spend money upgrading the mainline with more passing loops or double track, the cost will increase dramatically.
> In any case, the economy is not good, the public will gain less money than what will be used on the project No matter what according to calculations.
> 
> 
> Bottom line:
> Will it be built? Probably not, but you never know :dunno:


Yeah it's shocking to me that both these DF initiatives and the opposition to the Vejle crossing were such a socioeconomic duds .. such populist projects ... and then DF went and left the agreement that guaranteed it ... just so they can pitch another populist project this time a road bypass of a village that does not need it ... and just months before the election that gave majority to the Togfonden group even without DF ... a serious miscalculation on the part of DF. 

I am sad that the new Billundbanen may not happen, but Togfonden as a project is a race to catch up on 50 years of neglect in Danish railroads focusing on the mainlines first and foremost .. we cannot afford to chase pet project distractions like this


----------



## dysharmonica

BaneDK is testing new information screens on select stations showing way more information in a new modern desing. 

https://www.bane.dk/Borger/Trafikinformation/Skaermdesign

These can anle be seen at www.dinstation.dk

Stations where the test is taking place











Departures











Departures - night/dark mode











Train info including platform zone











If you encounter these and have a feedback, you can submit it here: 
https://dinstationdk.typeform.com/t...ho7LGL0CmW3PFfNwfxxnVNcLHBFFiftId5GjgbEziipB4


----------



## dysharmonica

In the recent days, the Danish infrastructure manager Banedanmark announced two milestones in its resignalling project. 

After delays, the first stretch of ERTMS equipped railroad in eatern Denmark will open on 15. December. This is the test track for ERTMS in the region around Copenhagen. 



bongo-anders said:


> ERTMS is taken into use on December the 15th between Roskilde and Køge.
> 
> 
> https://bane.dk/da/Presse/Pressemed...brug-paa-den-foerste-straekning-i-OEstdanmark





davide84 said:


> *Denmark launches ERTMS on first eastern line*
> 
> _DANISH infrastructure manager Banedanmark has announced that it will launch ERTMS between Roskilde and Køge on December 15, marking the first use of the system in eastern Denmark._
> 
> https://www.railjournal.com/signalling/denmark-launches-ertms-on-first-eastern-line/


Second, after even more serious delays, the first 6 of Denmark's main train type, the IC3, will be put into operation with ERTMS quipment. 



dysharmonica said:


> Also in Denmark, first 6 of the main train type IC3 equipped with ERTMS are being put into operation.
> 
> Equipping IC3 with ERTMS was a major headache for Denmark, as these custom-designed DMU trains dating back to the 1980s had little space available on board for the quipment, and the conversion took years longer than anticipated. However, IC3 is the main long distance and regional train type, and also the basis for the electric IR4 and the cross-border electric Øresundstog train types, so it was imperative a solution was found to equip IC3 with ERTMS. In fact, the delay in equipping IC3's with ERTMS is a major reason why the resignalling program and by extension the electrification program in Denmark are delayed - as signals were replaced along tracks, Denmark needed trains to run on these converted lines, and with the delay in converting IC3s they did not.
> 
> Now these problems were solved and the program can continue.






dysharmonica said:


> BDK is on a bit of a marketing blitz
> 
> Along with the first stretch in Østdanmark's ERTMS being put into service, the first 6 IC3 trains with ERTMS are being put into operation. Here is a video and a few pictures:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FB Source of Imgaes


----------



## dysharmonica

The Danish parliament approved the next step in danish high speed rail construction - the West Fyn line - a 36km electrified, double tracked line capable of 250km/h operation. 

Construction should begin in 2023



dysharmonica said:


> The West Fyn line was adopted by Folketinget with the financing as presented by the S government earlier - i.e. start of work in 2023.
> 
> https://www.railwaygazette.com/infr...ment-approves-vestfyn-fast-line/55189.article
> 
> https://www.ft.dk/samling/20191/lovforslag/L14/index.htm
> 
> https://www.jernbanen.dk/forum/index.php?mode=thread&id=147305


We talked about this line recently: 



dysharmonica said:


> High Speed rail over Western end of the island Fyn is stuck in planning delays, The new government finally appropriated 1 year of planning funds .. but starting in 2023. The new minister of transport says that planning was left unfinished under the prior government, and with the other current projects on the railroad (electrification, signalling, and speed improvements int the direction of Hamburg), Bane Danmark - the infrastructure authority - simply does not have the manpower to finish planning and launch construction any earlier.
> 
> (all links in Danish)
> https://fyens.dk/artikel/hvornår-kommer-den-nye-fynske-jernbane-nu-skal-politikerne-give-svar
> 
> https://fyens.dk/artikel/transportm...ernbane-i-2023-vi-kan-ikke-gøre-det-hurtigere
> 
> The Mayor of Odense (Denmark's 3rd largest city) and the eastern terminus of this planned railroad is already building visions and coalition to take advantage of the freed up capacity on the current track and launch a frequent (every 15 minute) commuter train / S-train on the current line binding multiple sleepy, forgotten towns to the city and revitalizing them.
> 
> LEGEND: New line in red (following the highway - in green), current rail in dashed black.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (link in Danish)
> https://fyens.dk/artikel/borgmester-vi-skal-have-fynsk-s-tognet


----------



## JumpUp

Very interesting!
Is there any other project (more tracks, more speed etc.) going on between Odense and Ringsted - somehow the traffic needs to run through that bottleneck as well (now that Ringstend - Copenhagen railway has been opened)


----------



## dysharmonica

JumpUp said:


> Very interesting!
> Is there any other project (more tracks, more speed etc.) going on between Odense and Ringsted - somehow the traffic needs to run through that bottleneck as well (now that Ringstend - Copenhagen railway has been opened)


As far as I understand Odense Ringsted is not a capacity bottleneck. Plus, there is the Great Belt Bridge-tunnel there... expanding that is too pricy. 

The one other project that is being talked about but is far off .. is the Kattegatt bridge which would provide a spare crossing, but that is a massive project that is decades in the future.


----------



## Nikolaj

JumpUp said:


> Very interesting!
> Is there any other project (more tracks, more speed etc.) going on between Odense and Ringsted - somehow the traffic needs to run through that bottleneck as well (now that Ringstend - Copenhagen railway has been opened)


There is an ongoing project for speed upgrading between Ringsted and Odense. Until 2024 this section of the main line will see an upgrade to 200 km/h.

The project had its final approval with an appropriation decision from the Parliament Financial Committee 16th May 2019. https://www.ft.dk/RIPdf/samling/20181/aktstykke/aktstk141/20181_aktstk_afgjort141.pdf

In total DKK 484 mio. has been appropriated to this project, of which the bulk will be spend in 2023 and 2024. When the speed upgrade has been completed the travel time between Copenhagen and Odense will be reduced by 5 minutes. With new electric train sets capable of min. 200 km/h the travel time time from Copenhagen to Odense will be max. 60 minutes.

Except for a fly-over in Ringsted - not included in the Copenhagen-Ringsted project, no further plans for the Copenhagen-Odense mainline is in planning.


----------



## bongo-anders

Sad day in danish rail history.

on the 19:15 departure tonight from Puttgarden the car/rail ferry MF Prinsesse Benedikte will carry the last ever passenger train in danish rail history.

It will end a 147 year old tradition.


Until the Fehmarn tunnel opens in 2028 (hopefully) all 3 daily Intercity trains between Copenhagen and Hamburg will go via Jylland.

Stops will be made in Ringsted, Odense, Kolding, Padborg and Hamburg and the journey time will be 4 hours and 36 minutes

Planned journey time with the tunnel is around 2,5 hours.


----------



## Coccodrillo

After that, there will be only two train ferry routes with passenger trains in Europe, of which only one with some relevant traffic. Trelleborg-Sassnitz only carries the Malmö-Berlin night trains which runs some days in summer, while Sicily-Italian mainland has two intercity and some night trains a day.

I don't know if there are other passenger train ferries at all left elsewhere in the world. I know of just the ferry on Lake Van in Turkey, but it carries only the baggage wagon, passenegrs must board the ferry by walking and take another train on the other side.

So they are already starting the works to double tracks and to electrifiy the line?

I used it three times (on two return trips, on one of them I used the Storebaelt in one direction). The first time I didn't know there was a ferry on that route, and I was surprised when I saw my train baording a ferry.

Is the Gedser line still active and linked to the rail network?

Source of the posts below:

http://www.ferrovie.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=36735

http://www.ferrovie.it/portale/leggi.php?id=1205



Ae 4/7 said:


> Notare il nome...





fabribo said:


> L'ultimo treno traghettato da Puttgarden .....
> 
> Eurocity e ICE a Puttgarden by Fabrizio Montignani, su Flickr
> 
> ICE in navigazione by Fabrizio Montignani, su Flickr
> 
> (foto del 2017, ultime corse per l'ICE Diesel)
> 
> Saluti
> Fabrizio.


----------



## TedStriker

_Is the Gedser line still active and linked to the rail network?
_

While the track of the line is intact and connected to the main network the train ferry infrastructure has been swept away and I suspect that the line is now only used as a line for special historic train services.


----------



## bongo-anders

Btw another milestone in the ERTMS installation happened today as the northern part of the Lille Syd line between Køge and Roskilde was activated today.


----------



## 1993matias

> Sad day in danish rail history.
> 
> on the 19:15 departure tonight from Puttgarden the car/rail ferry MF Prinsesse Benedikte will carry the last ever passenger train in danish rail history.
> 
> It will end a 147 year old tradition.
> 
> 
> Until the Fehmarn tunnel opens in 2028 (hopefully) all 3 daily Intercity trains between Copenhagen and Hamburg will go via Jylland.
> 
> Stops will be made in Ringsted, Odense, Kolding, Padborg and Hamburg and the journey time will be 4 hours and 36 minutes
> 
> Planned journey time with the tunnel is around 2,5 hours.


I did the whole day from first to last train. You can see an album of a select number of pictures here:


http://imgur.com/a/KWyVW3b


There is English description on the images to help you understand 

I also managed to get my hands on a video of the last train boarding the ferry in Puttgarden, plenty of people had showed up to take pictures of this historical event!


----------



## webeagle12

bongo-anders said:


> Sad day in danish rail history.
> 
> on the 19:15 departure tonight from Puttgarden the car/rail ferry MF Prinsesse Benedikte will carry the last ever passenger train in danish rail history.
> 
> It will end a 147 year old tradition.
> 
> 
> Until the Fehmarn tunnel opens in 2028 (hopefully) all 3 daily Intercity trains between Copenhagen and Hamburg will go via Jylland.
> 
> Stops will be made in Ringsted, Odense, Kolding, Padborg and Hamburg and the journey time will be 4 hours and 36 minutes
> 
> Planned journey time with the tunnel is around 2,5 hours.


I wish they would run at least a proper overnight train until then....


----------



## otternase

webeagle12 said:


> I wish they would run at least a proper overnight train until then....


4.5 hours is a bit too short for a night train. Who wants to start e.g. at midnight and then stumble out of the train at 5 in the morning?

A proper nighttrain should cover a bit more distance. I guess, a Berlin-Copenhagen nighttrain or a Cologne-Copenhagen nighttrain would make sense, but after the ICE TD have been outphased, there is no Rolling Stock prepared for such operation. The shortage of DSB IC3 doesn't allow to run more of them outside Denmark.


----------



## Grotlaufen

TedStriker said:


> While the track of the line is intact and connected to the main network the train ferry infrastructure has been swept away and I suspect that the line is now only used as a line for special historic train services.



The Gedser railway line is kept as a reserve _in case of_ (sudden interest, as a spatial line in planning for a Gedser-Rostock connection, test drives, catastrophies etc). It is 23 kms between Nykøbing F (17k inh.) and Gedser (850 inh.) and no other settlements to speak of in between.


----------



## TedStriker

Grotlaufen said:


> a spatial line in planning for a Gedser-Rostock connection.


What sort of connection please? There is no longer any train ferry infrastructure at Gedser.


----------



## bongo-anders

They will start on the prepping work for the electrification work on the Roskilde to Holbæk line this month.


https://www.railwaygazette.com/infr...roskilde-holbæk-electrification/55599.article


----------



## dysharmonica

otternase said:


> after the IC2 / IC4 desaster the prime objective of DSB is now risk aversion. In the "Future Train" project everyone seems to agree at least on one aspect: get a product, not a project.
> 
> Thus it makes perfectly sense that DSB didn't opt for the Cab Car of the ECx: the coaches are of proven design, but the Cab Car will be a new development for DB.
> Thus the remaining option is just sandwich operation. I don't think that is weird, actually quite a few of high speed trains are nothing else but disguised coach formations in sandwich formation, e.g. the first generation ICE and the TGV, as well as the Talgo HST.
> 
> Regarding the floor height: this indeed seems to be strange, but I guess there is little choice for coaches with 55cm floor height, running 200km/h? And the Talgo come at least with the advantage of gangways between coaches without steps.
> And in addition to this I guess it was also considered that these coaches will be operated cross-border to Germany, where 76cm platform height is prevalent.


Yeah. I feel like the Vectron and theseTalgo cars were a smart purchase. Proven simple products. They will not fit like a glove the way a custom-built danish trains can, but that is the cost for avoiding that risk. 

And of course the sandwich consist with 2 vectrons is also a cost with this, but I'd say an acceptable one



TER200 said:


> Yes, however with those formations DSB will get way too much power. The Vectrons are much more powerful and heavier than TGV or Talgo350 power cars, and the trains will only do 200 km/h.
> They will almost have more locomotives than carriages in weight :lol: .
> But I get it it is the safe way to have a reliable train as quick and possible, and this "waste" can be fixed later by adding cab cars or retrofitting the Talgo sets with cabs.


I am very hopeful that once DB has proved out the driving cars (and locos) that DSB under the framework agreement can buy 8 of them and do away with he sandwich. The 2 vectrons are an overkill, but I applaud that DSB did not get seduced into another development project. 

I feel like this is the right next step. a Country served by Vectrons, Talgo and most likely Stadler Flirt EMUs domestically will be a happy nation for a decade of transition that will see electrification, signalling, and major speed updates finished and many older train types phased out, and overall this huge period of construction and transition taper off.

And then we will see demand for the IC Lyn trains to be more suitable for long distance travel, and we will get 250-300 km/h long distance trains for the main line operation. 

It is not a bad future for travel on danish railroads .. and a huge upgrade from the (what?) 50 years of neglect.


----------



## otternase

dysharmonica said:


> I am very hopeful that once DB has proved out the driving carbs (and locos) that DSB under the framweork agreement can buy 8 of them and do away with he sandwich. The 2 vectrons are an overkill, but I applaud that DSB did not get seduced into another development project.


right. In addition to that: while the loco-coach-formations are intended for international high speed services between Hamburg and Copenhagen, for an intermediate time before the Fehmarnbelt-Tunnel is opened for traffic (so at least the first 8-something years of the lifetime of the coaches) they will run Hamburg-Flensburg-Kolding-Odense-Copenhagen (and Hamburg-Felnsburg-Fredericia-Aarhus). Those are routes with many stations, many stops requiring many accelerations from standstill, so the extra starting tractive effort of two times 90t load on powered axles will likely help to improve the timetable.


----------



## JumpUp

Hello 

Now we know that DSB buys 8 TALGO trains for Germany-Denmark traffic. What's the schedule for more, new electric nationals trains for Denmark? I heard that in 2020 there will be a huge contract for new Danish trains - has tendering already started? How many will that be?

I am talking of this contract: https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/f...alify-for-danish-state-railways-fleet-tender/


----------



## dysharmonica

JumpUp said:


> Hello
> 
> Now we know that DSB buys 8 TALGO trains for Germany-Denmark traffic. What's the schedule for more, new electric nationals trains for Denmark? I heard that in 2020 there will be a huge contract for new Danish trains - has tendering already started? How many will that be?
> 
> I am talking of this contract: https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/f...alify-for-danish-state-railways-fleet-tender/



here is executive summary of the plan in English https://www.dsb.dk/globalassets/om-dsb/rapporter/fremtidens-tog/executive-summary-dicision-paper.pdf

They number I can find is 43,000 seats out of 66,000 will be replaced in this tender. No specific number of trains that I can find at the moment. 

This will replace virtually all mainline and electrified regional rolling stock. What will be left is trains to Germany, DMU trains on smaller tracks and a few remaining non-electirfied mainlines and some odds and ends.


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## TER200

dysharmonica said:


> here is executive summary of the plan in English https://www.dsb.dk/globalassets/om-dsb/rapporter/fremtidens-tog/executive-summary-dicision-paper.pdf
> 
> They number I can find is 43,000 seats out of 66,000 will be replaced in this tender. No specific number of trains that I can find at the moment.


Page 9 it says :
- about 204 sets if they are about 80m long (approx. 210 seats), or
- about 165 sets if they are 110m for approx. 270 seats.

Those are the results of a simple division of those 43 000 seats, and the set lengths mentioned seem to be the optimal unit lengths according to DSB (these lengths seem very short to me, although they are bigger than the IC3 and IR4s, as they aim at reducing the number of couplings/uncouplings).


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## dysharmonica

TER200 said:


> Page 9 it says :
> - about 204 sets if they are about 80m long (approx. 210 seats), or
> - about 165 sets if they are 110m for approx. 270 seats.
> 
> Those are the results of a simple division of those 43 000 seats, and the set lengths mentioned seem to be the optimal unit lengths according to DSB (these lengths seem very short to me, although they are bigger than the IC3 and IR4s, as they aim at reducing the number of couplings/uncouplings).


thanks I was tired and rushing and did not find the numbers. Just like with the wagon orders, DSB does not care how you put the trains together (8 cars? 13 cars?) ... they (smartly) care about length and capacity (and other technical bits that actually matter)

About short trains: DK has a lot of fan-out train traffic Many mainline trains run Copenhagen to Odense on the island Fyn in one long consist - here trains are aplit and head to multiple destiantions on Jylland. Thus, DK officially operates many short trains (IC3, IC4, IR4) and runs them in longer consists on the eastern mainlines.

I will also add that the requirement for both long distance and regional trains to be on a single platform is controversial, and the new government made some noise about possibly reversiting it. However now, this far from opening for bids, I assume that noise is dead and we will get a single platform for all trains (I 100% expect Stadler to win this one with Flirt, given their ubiquity and the fact that both Sweden and especiall Norway have them in operation)


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## Nikolaj

dysharmonica said:


> thanks I was tired and rushing and did not find the numbers. Just like with the wagon orders, DSB does not care how you put the trains together (8 cars? 13 cars?) ... they (smartly) care about length and capacity (and other technical bits that actually matter)
> 
> About short trains: DK has a lot of fan-out train traffic Many mainline trains run Copenhagen to Odense on the island Fyn in one long consist - here trains are aplit and head to multiple destiantions on Jylland. Thus, DK officially operates many short trains (IC3, IC4, IR4) and runs them in longer consists on the eastern mainlines.
> 
> I will also add that the requirement for both long distance and regional trains to be on a single platform is controversial, and the new government made some noise about possibly reversiting it. However now, this far from opening for bids, I assume that noise is dead and we will get a single platform for all trains (I 100% expect Stadler to win this one with Flirt, given their ubiquity and the fact that both Sweden and especiall Norway have them in operation)


I frankly don't see the argument of Sweden and Norway having chosen the Stadler Flirt having any relevance. There is no train services between Denmark and Norway and with Skånetrafikken taking over the service between Copenhagen and Malmö/Skåne no DSB services to Sweden either.

On the other hand DSB has services running to Germany, and a long time cooperation with DB, and put a lot of emphazise on acquiring rolling stock comparable and tested by DB (Siemens Vectron and newly ordered Talgo wagons). As such it might be just as plausible that DSB will choose a Siemens derivat.


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## otternase

Nikolaj said:


> I frankly don't see the argument of Sweden and Norway having chosen the Stadler Flirt having any relevance. There is no train services between Denmark and Norway and with Skånetrafikken taking over the service between Copenhagen and Malmö/Skåne no DSB services to Sweden either.
> 
> On the other hand DSB has services running to Germany, and a long time cooperation with DB, and put a lot of emphazise on acquiring rolling stock comparable and tested by DB (Siemens Vectron and newly ordered Talgo wagons). As such it might be just as plausible that DSB will choose a Siemens derivat.


1) I also don't see a strong relation between the fact that Norway and Sweden is operating Stadler Flirt and a potential procurement of similar vehicles in Denmark. But the DSB is mostly interested in a proven product and as far as I know the track record of both NSB 74-76 and MTR X74 is rather positive, so this is a strong argument for Stadler.

2) Both the locomotives and the coaches were purchased with international traffic in mind. The EMUs on the other hand are intended for national traffic only. Therefore compatibility and homologation in Germany was a major aspect in case of the procurement of locomotives and coaches, but is irrelevant in case of the EMUs.

Furthermore the choice of manufacturers was small in both cases, in case of the locomotives the alternatives were just Bombardier TRAXX (not fulfilling the speed requirement) and Skoda 109E, where the homologation in Germany is by now more than four years behind schedule... In case of the coaches the only competitor was Siemens, after both Bombardier and CAF retracted from the tender. In the EMU tender on the other hand there is long list of bidders...


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## TER200

dysharmonica said:


> About short trains: DK has a lot of fan-out train traffic Many mainline trains run Copenhagen to Odense on the island Fyn in one long consist - here trains are aplit and head to multiple destiantions on Jylland. Thus, DK officially operates many short trains (IC3, IC4, IR4) and runs them in longer consists on the eastern mainlines.


May I add that the the IC3s had to fit in ferries... a constraint that has of course disappeared now.

In the report, they also say that they want to reduce the number of splitting/coupling thanks to more paths provided by the new line, removing the non-electrified Vejle-Herning-Struer from the IC network, and platforms lengthening.
Since you probably won't have the foldable cab like on the IC3 but rather a big cabin like on the IC4, running many short units is a waste of space (and money and weight), and reduces the passengers possibility to move along the train to find a seat. That's why I think the optimal length is higher.
3 110m-units would have the same length than a (2 x IR4 + 3 x IC3) consist.



dysharmonica said:


> I will also add that the requirement for both long distance and regional trains to be on a single platform is controversial, and the new government made some noise about possibly reversiting it. However now, this far from opening for bids, I assume that noise is dead and we will get a single platform for all trains (I 100% expect Stadler to win this one with Flirt, given their ubiquity and the fact that both Sweden and especiall Norway have them in operation)


Most 200 km/h, low-floor EMUs now on the European market (FLIRT, Coradia Stream...) are based on regional trains.


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## dysharmonica

TER200 said:


> May I add that the the IC3s had to fit in ferries... a constraint that has of course disappeared now.
> 
> In the report, they also say that they want to reduce the number of splitting/coupling thanks to more paths provided by the new line, removing the non-electrified Vejle-Herning-Struer from the IC network, and platforms lengthening.
> Since you probably won't have the foldable cab like on the IC3 but rather a big cabin like on the IC4, running many short units is a waste of space (and money and weight), and reduces the passengers possibility to move along the train to find a seat. That's why I think the optimal length is higher.
> 3 110m-units would have the same length than a (2 x IR4 + 3 x IC3) consist.
> 
> 
> Most 200 km/h, low-floor EMUs now on the European market (FLIRT, Coradia Stream...) are based on regional trains.


All good points. It does not make the choice of dedicated IC EMUs based on a regional train less controversial. Especially since we're talking about a change of government here from right to left wing ... the new government did want to kick into this tender that the previous blue government chose trains that are not as good as they could have been for the intended long distance use. 

How true is that ? I do not know. There is definite comfort difference between IC3 (IC train) and IR4 (regional electrified version of the IC3) in terms of comfort despite them sharing a platform. Though the Swedes seem to be happy with the X55 HSR which is a modified Regina ... So we will see.


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## dysharmonica

Nikolaj said:


> I frankly don't see the argument of Sweden and Norway having chosen the Stadler Flirt having any relevance. There is no train services between Denmark and Norway and with Skånetrafikken taking over the service between Copenhagen and Malmö/Skåne no DSB services to Sweden either.





otternase said:


> 1) I also don't see a strong relation between the fact that Norway and Sweden is operating Stadler Flirt and a potential procurement of similar vehicles in Denmark. But the DSB is mostly interested in a proven product and as far as I know the track record of both NSB 74-76 and MTR X74 is rather positive, so this is a strong argument for Stadler.



My main point is similar to otternase's : In selecting a "proven platform with good track record' scandinavians listen to other scandinavian experiences more loudly than any other experiences. The fact that MTR and especially NSB/VY have had good experience with their FLIRT rollout and operation will count loudly in consideration. Further, FLIRT is about the widest-used Regional/IC EMU platform on the market today - it is the safest choice. That is why I am expecting Stadler to win this. 

There are however, indeed multiple interested suppliers for this tender. We will see soon enough.


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## Nikolaj

Being Scandinavian or not has no relevance in this case, and just to repeat - DSB primary look to their primary cooperation partner, which for decades has been DB. DSB has traditionally - due to geography - not had any co-operation with NSB (Norway), and with SJ the cooperation has often been very troubled if not existing.


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## dysharmonica

Nikolaj said:


> Being Scandinavian or not has no relevance in this case, and just to repeat - DSB primary look to their primary cooperation partner, which for decades has been DB. DSB has traditionally - due to geography - not had any co-operation with NSB (Norway), and with SJ the cooperation has often been very troubled if not existing.


I get your point and I disagree about the Focus. NSB's success with unifying its regional traffic onto the flirt platform of NSB74-76 was used repeatedly in the debate leading up to the tender. SJ was not mentioned but is clearly an example with its dtranz Regina / X55 strategy which is very similar to what DSB is attempting. In the end, while Denmark does not have a rail link to Norway and NSB / VY and SJ (and MTR to some extent) and their experiences with FLIRT, with single platform deployment ... are much more of peer organization than the behemonth that is DB. DB and DSB will never operate in similar ways .. .DSB, NSB/VY, and SJ do and will which is why DSB is looking to them for examples. 

I am sure there is consideration of DB ..even though this order is exclusively for domestic use. You can see Denmark learning from DB with the battery train experiments, for example. And I may be seeing things in one way where multiple perspectives are true, but DB has not entered any of hte folketing conversations and reports I have read ... NSB was mentioned a number of times. In the end, NSB is a bit of a shining star for betting on FLIRT and rolling it out to general satisfaciton and good operational experience.


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## dysharmonica

As part of the Femern belt connection between Copehagen and Hamburg, Denmark is upgrading the line feeind the futue tunnel for a double-tracked, electrified 200km/h high(er) speed line. Past of this work is a new bridge over the Storstrøm straight - the new Storstrømsbroen. This cable-stayed combined road and rail bridge is now well under construciton. Opening is planned for 2022 - 2023 for cars and trains respetively. 







































dysharmonica said:


> February update was posted.
> https://www.vejdirektoratet.dk/projekt/storstromsbroen/fotos-film-kort
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> I am very excited this is progressing despite the original hiccups contrating his out. Opening still planned for 2022 for cars and 2023 for trains. Awesome


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## ArtNouveau

Pardon my ignorance but is one traffic lane in either direction really future proof?
I see there is a motorway not too far away but it seems like an expensive endeavour to build a bridge of this length that is only 1x1


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## Amexpat

Why can't they use the old bridge for just road traffic and just make the new bridge for rail? The old bridge is only from 1985 so it should have some years left.


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## Nikolaj

The old bridge was opened in 1937. The motorway bridge around 5 km to the east was opened i 1985.

The old combined road and rail bridge had only a very narrow roadway and only a single track railway. The old combined bridge is in a very bad maintenance state, and it was concluded that it was not economically or technical feasible to renovate the old bridge.

The road across the new bridge is expected to carry an AADT of around 8000 vehicles and the parallel motorway only has an AADT of 27.000, and more than 1+1 across the new bridge is therefore not needed.


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## dysharmonica

ArtNouveau said:


> Pardon my ignorance but is one traffic lane in either direction really future proof?
> I see there is a motorway not too far away but it seems like an expensive endeavour to build a bridge of this length that is only 1x1


Futureproof in DK means more rail, not roads. Danes do not build excess car capacity just in case - the traffic models for this kind of work are pretty solid here and they know this is enough for the next 100 years.


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## Nikolaj

dysharmonica said:


> Futureproof in DK means more rail, not roads. Danes do not build excess car capacity just in case - the traffic models for this kind of work are pretty solid here and they know this is enough for the next 100 years.


We don't build not needed double rail tracks either. It doesn't matter if it is road or rail capacity, but investing in not needed capacity is not a good way to utilise the common resources.


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## ArtManDoo

ArtNouveau said:


> Pardon my ignorance but is one traffic lane in either direction really future proof?
> I see there is a motorway not too far away but it seems like an expensive endeavour to build a bridge of this length that is only 1x1


Actually if 1+1 car road is not enough it is clear sign that a new railway is needed because creating new motorway creates only new problems.


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## bongo-anders

It should be noted that Køge has a station more, Tureby that is located south of Herfølge on the line towards Næstved.

I like the 2 other stations on the Lilly Syd line that you have seen (Herfølge and Lille Skensved) the station building looked different.

Instead of the White station building it was all in red bricks and I think it looked beautiful. 

But sadly the building was demolished back in 2016 to make space for more parking spots and a waiting room for the around 130 daily passengers. 


Also it could be argued that the halt at Vallø located south of the similar looking halt at Egøje is also part of Køge Municipality. 

It serves the village of Vedskøllle in Køge Municipality but is located in Stevns Municipality.


And in max 10 years time there will probably also be a station or most likely a halt in Hastrup between Køge and Herfølge stations.

A large area east of the railway called Haastrup Øst (east) is planned and thats why a station is proposed.

The area West of the rail road is fully developed so it could probably be usrful today, but for now the area is served by 2 high frequent bus routes called 101A and 102A.


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## bongo-anders

EB 3210 and 3211 aka Siemens Vectron has been out for some testing.

The reason why MF 5051 is called the one and only in this video is because its the only IC3 train with the red livery.


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## bongo-anders

Soon the Vectrons have more places to go as electrification is switched on between Ringsted and Vordingborg in the southern part of Sjælland/Zealand. 

Electrification will be extented to Nykøbing Falster in 2024 when the Storstrømsbroen bridge opens.
The last part to the Fehmarn Belt tunnel will be ready in time for the opening of the tunnel in 2029.









Nu bliver jernbanen elektrisk


Banedanmark sætter natten mellem søndag den 21. og mandag den 22. marts strøm til den nyelektrificerede bane mellem Ringsted og Vordingborg.




bane.dk


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## kapo311

bongo-anders said:


> Soon the Vectrons have more places to go as electrification is switched on between Ringsted and Vordingborg in the southern part of Sjælland/Zealand.
> 
> Electrification will be extented to Nykøbing Falster in 2024 when the Storstrømsbroen bridge opens.
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> 
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> bane.dk


Correct me if im wrong, but I cant find any train terminating in Vordingborg, so what's the use of it now?


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## bongo-anders

That is correct, so so far its the trains from Næstved to Copenhagen that can use the line. 

I have later found out thats only the signaling system until Mogenstrup south of Næstved has been immuniseret (i don't know the english Word) so they can only run to Vordingborg if they want to when ERTMS is ready later in the year. 

ERTMS and double track will be ready from August i believe it is. 
But they probably needs to do some testing. So probably first in december.


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## JumpUp

Heeey,

is there any new information regarding new Danish (national) long-distance trains?
Contract should be aworded in March/April, was my last information.

THANKS


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## milipumba

JumpUp said:


> Heeey,
> 
> is there any new information regarding new Danish (national) long-distance trains?
> Contract should be aworded in March/April, was my last information.
> 
> THANKS


DSB says that it will be announced in start april.


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## JumpUp

milipumba said:


> DSB says that it will be announced in start april.


Thanks! I am very excited and check the news every day… If you hear something, please let us know!


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## Nikolaj

JumpUp said:


> Thanks! I am very excited and check the news every day… If you hear something, please let us know!


At a presentation held yesterday, regarding a new infrastructure investment plan 2021-2035, the Transportminister mentioned that it will be announced next week who will supply DSB with the new electric long-distance trains, so it shoud be coming soon.


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## JumpUp

Nikolaj said:


> At a presentation held yesterday, regarding a new infrastructure investment plan 2021-2035, the Transportminister mentioned that it will be announced next week who will supply DSB with the new electric long-distance trains, so it shoud be coming soon.


Those trains will only be for national Danish services, not for Sweden, correct?
There are TALGOs for Denmark <-> Germany already ordered, we know that


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## Nikolaj

JumpUp said:


> Those trains will only be for national Danish services, not for Sweden, correct?
> There are TALGOs for Denmark <-> Germany already ordered, we know that


Correct. The new trains will only be equipped with Danish 25 kV electric system. In the future services between Denmark and Sweden will be with Swedish trains only, and services to Germany with newly ordered DSB TALGO 2-system trains.


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## Coccodrillo

The railway portion of the Fehmarn tunnel will be operated by BaneDanmark, right?

If I remember correctly until December 2019 DSB train drivers drove their train until Puttgarden, including loading/unloading the train on the ferry.


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## Grotlaufen

A new transport deal has been proposed by the government to outline the coming road and railway constructions over the next decade:

https://www.trm.dk/media/5219/projektoversigt-til-infrastrukturplan-2035.pdf

For the Danish railways, a retro-project coming back will be a 12km new double-track between Tinglev and Padborg, just north of the German border - In fact, there used to be a double tracked railway until the 1930's when Danish authorities decided to remove the second track (the whole railway was built in the German era pre-WW1. After becoming part of Denmark again in 1920, traffic across the new border decreased which led to this decision). There are also four grade crossings here which will be replaced by new bridges or tunnels.

Else west of the Great belt it is mostly a catalogue of continuing investments (new high-speed doubletrack on Funen west of Odense, electrification and new battery technology to locomotives as replacement of diesel, new signalling). There will be a study carried out to examine a new railway connection between Funen and Jutland.

On Zealand and next to Copenhagen, the new HSR Ringsted-Copenhagen will be equipped with a new grade-separated junction next to Ringsted for the coming traffic towards Fehmarn belt. In metro Copenhagen some stations (Ny Ellebjerg, Glostrup, Kastrup Lufthavn) will be rebuilt to accomodate increasing traffic to and from the Sound bridge (both passanger and freight) as well as adjust for the coming subway station next to Ny Ellebjerg. Some intercity trains will stop there in the future. _S-banen _might become extended to Roskilde and/or Elsinore as well.

Some proposed projects such as a new railway/highway/motorway connection across Kattegat (northwestern Zealand <>Jutland) have not been the scope of this report.


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## milipumba

Double track is also om the table between Køge and Køge Nord.
Also with a new platform at Køge station.
It will allow for 15 min headways between Køge and Roskilde.
The line to Copenhagen (from Næstved) will however still be with 30 min headways.

The new trains for DSB will be presented on Monday at 15:30.


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## JumpUp

milipumba said:


> Double track is also om the table between Køge and Køge Nord.
> Also with a new platform at Køge station.
> It will allow for 15 min headways between Køge and Roskilde.
> The line to Copenhagen (from Næstved) will however still be with 30 min headways.
> 
> The new trains for DSB will be presented on Monday at 15:30.



I am very excited about this afternoon! It's going to be a massive improvement in Denmark with the new trains!


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## milipumba

Alstom's coradia stream is the winner.


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## JumpUp

milipumba said:


> Alstom's coradia stream is the winner.


Thanks, how many trains (how long etc.?)


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## milipumba

Info in danish. But i think you can figure out the numbers.

Btw it's 100 trains sets.


https://www.dsb.dk/globalassets/om-dsb/toget-er-fremtiden/fakta-coradia-stream.pdf



And some pictures.





Skyfish


- Skyfish




www.skyfish.com


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## TER200

So 110 m long and 300 seats, about twice the size of the IC3.
the seats look less cozy than in the IC3 though (the train is also much narrower, probably - at least partly - due to the low floor).


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## milipumba

3 sets of this one equals 5 IC3 set. 
So almost double the size.
And you are correct.
IC3 is 28 cm wider.
But i think that is because DSB wanted a standard product. And not a specialized version.
The IC4 scandal is still in our minds.


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## M-NL

Interesting. Is there a specific reason why they have specified four driven bogies for such a short train (at least that's what the DSB factsheet said)?
The Dutch ICNG5 (the first incarnation of the Coradia Stream) is also capable of 200 km/h, only has three driven bogies. And the Italian POP, which is shorter and only for 160 km/h, just has two driven bogies.


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## wbrm

Maybe the same reason the locomotive class EG exist, steep slopes?


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## Stuu

wbrm said:


> Maybe the same reason the locomotive class EG exist, steep slopes?


In Denmark?


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## otternase

I guess, the target was rather to get acceleration at a level comparable to S-Bane, appropriate for regional services with short distances between stops


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## M-NL

Another interesting difference is the use of two blade doors, which can't be pressure sealed. The Dutch ICNG had to be equipped with single blade doors, because they need to be pressure sealed for encounters with 300 km/h HSTs.

There is also an article on Railcolornews about this train: [DK] Coradia Stream in red: DSB to order 100 EMUs from Alstom [video]
That interior looks a lot warmer and comfortable then the ICNG mock up interior, which in comparison looks more like a sped up commuter train.


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## TER200

M-NL said:


> Interesting. Is there a specific reason why they have specified four driven bogies for such a short train (at least that's what the DSB factsheet said)?


It would be a shame if the new trains have slower acceleration than the current IC3s 😅.
1,2 m/s² from 0 to 70 km/h is quite impressive.


The acceleration and wide doors suggest they should fit for both IC/ICLyn and RegioExpress services, like the IC3/IR4.


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## JumpUp

In what year will the railway electrification reach Aarhus and when Aalborg?
Thanks!


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## M-NL

TER200 said:


> 1,2 m/s² from 0 to 70 km/h is quite impressive.


Threw some data in a blender and did some quick calculations:

For a Dutch ICNG they specify axle loads of 17t per driven axle and 15t per undriven axle 
A 4 car Italian ETR104 is said to accelerate at 0,89 m/s² and has two driven bogies
Estimated mass of a ETR104: 4x17 + 6x15 = 158t
Estimated tractive effort = mass x acceleration = 158 x 0,89 = 140 kN or 70 kN per driven bogie
Estimated weight of the DSB Stream: 8x17 + 6x15 = 226t
Estimated tractive effort = 4 x 70 = 280 kN
Acceleration = Tractive effort / mass = 280 / 226 = 1,24 m/s²
Close enough to 1,2 m/s², when you know the ETR104 only has a 160 km/h top speed and I made a lot of assumptions.


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## milipumba

JumpUp said:


> In what year will the railway electrification reach Aarhus and when Aalborg?
> Thanks!


In 2026 or 2027.


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## bongo-anders

A train trip with IC Lyn from Fredericia to Copenhagen airport.

Yes its a Diesel train (IC4) but it started in Aarhus so no electrification there (Yet)

The reason why its running on the left side from Ringsted to Copenhagen on the new high speed line is because of maintenance work in and around Copenhagen.


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## toquielkan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1354114909060128768


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## bongo-anders

I see that the news about the transport deal made by all the parties in the government hasn´t reached the international section.

The deal has both roads, reailways and urban transort but I will focus on the railway section here.

It should be noted that all the projects in the Timeplan project is still valid, they have however found money to move the construction start of the Odense Middelfart high speed line from 2023 to 2022.

Some of the major projects are as followed.

Eastern flyover at Ringsted, it will handle traffic from the old main line from Roskilde and the new high speed line from Køge Nord so each line can get towards Storebelt Fixed Link and the Fehmarnbelt Fixed link without crossing each other at level.
so you can get to both Storebælt and Fehmarn from Roskilde etc etc.

Double track on the missing link towards Flensburg in Germany

A new railway line between Silkeborg and Aarhus withn a stop in Galten.

The railway infrastructore work on Lolland in relation to the Fehmarnbelt tunnel will be moved foward so Lolland will get their rail connection earlier.

A study to find out if its feasable to doubletrack Køge st to Køge Nord st, this single track line will in 1,5 years time serve the 1/2 hourly service from the Stevns Peninsula to Roskilde and the 1/2 hourly service from Næstved via Køge to Copenhangen (and Nivå).
A double track will make it easier to keep the timetable and also enable 4 trains each hour to Roskilde.

S-train will take over the 2 northern track between Høje Taastrup and Roskilde and connect Roskilde to the S-train network.

A study to implement metro like service on the Kystbanen between Copenhagen and Helsingør.
I think its just means driverless S-train.

Establish the Ring Syd/south corridor.
This will make it possible to reroute more trains out of Copenhagen to ease congestion at the central station.
This project has a few elements.

2 new platforms at Glostrup for long distance trains with 2 outbound and 2 inbound tracks.
platforms at the Øresund line at Ny Ellebjerg and a transfer tunnel/concourse under the tracks to the other long distance platform, S-train and metro platforms.

One extra track between Ny Ellebjerg and the Kalvebod bridge.

One extra 2 track platform at Ørestad.

2 new side platforms at the airport station.



This comes on top of already started or soon to be started railway projects.


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## korbendallas

bongo-anders said:


> One extra 2 track platform at Ørestad


I can't find documentation for this. What's your source for this?


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## bongo-anders

Isn't part of the Ring Syd Project?


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## hans280

korbendallas said:


> I can't find documentation for this. What's your source for this?


Here's a rundown of the entire list of agreed projects (in Danish): https://fm.dk/media/24850/projektoversigt.pdf. Please note that this provides an incomplete picture of what is going to happen in the railway area, because part of the political agreement was to boost the so-called Togfonden. What this money will be spent on is, as far as I know, still unclear but it is widely expected that a railway tunnel under Vejle Fjord will be on the agenda.


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## korbendallas

hans280 said:


> Here's a rundown of the entire list of agreed projects (in Danish): https://fm.dk/media/24850/projektoversigt.pdf. Please note that this provides an incomplete picture of what is going to happen in the railway area, because part of the political agreement was to boost the so-called Togfonden. What this money will be spent on is, as far as I know, still unclear but it is widely expected that a railway tunnel under Vejle Fjord will be on the agenda.


It looks like the Ring Syd project is being financed as subprojects. From https://www.ft.dk/samling/20201/almdel/tru/bilag/215/2353974.pdf

1. Etablering af niveaufri udfletning ved Ny Ellebjerg Station (besluttet og finansieret)
*2. Anlæg af Øresundsperroner og tilslutning på Ny Ellebjerg Station
3. Kapacitetsudvidelse ved Københavns Lufthavn Station *
4. Etablering af fælles omstigningsfacilitet ved Ny Ellebjerg Station (besluttet og finansieret) 
5. Fjern- og regionaltogsperroner på Glostrup Station
*6. Anlæg af overhalingsspor til godstog mellem Kalvebod og Ny Ellebjerg *
7. Udbygning af Ørestad Station (ikke nødvendigt med anlæg af overhalingsspor)
*8. Vendespor ved Københavns Lufthavn Station*

1 and 4 was decided previously. Points 2, 3, 6 and 8 have been decided with this deal, while points 5 and 7 have yet to be decided.


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## bongo-anders

The work to start the 35 kilometer high speed line over Vestfyen (Odense to Middelfart) starts up now.

The line will be build for 250 km/h and is mostly build to relieve the very busy main line that besides the 4-5 InterCity trains each hour and 1-2 freight trains also serve the 7 intermediate stations every 30 minute or so.

When the line is done in 2028 the old main line will be used solely by the freight trains and most likely a increased regional train service.



https://via.ritzau.dk/pressemeddelelse/nu-starter-anlaeg-af-ny-jernbane-over-vestfyn?publisherId=13559844&releaseId=13635467


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## [email protected]




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## bongo-anders

Yesterday was the first day where ERTMS level 2 was in use between Mogenstrup south of Næstved and Nykøbing Falster.

This means that the top speed between Mogenstrup and Vordingborg has been increased from 160 to 200 km/h.
On the Island of Falster its increased from 120 km/h.
The only missing link is the new Storstrøm Bridge between Vordingborg and Falster.


I took a ride yesterday with my brother on a IC3 train and the top speed reached was 175 km/h.

The top speed of 200 km/h is only reached when the Storestrøm Bridge is opened and electrification on the line from Næstved to Nykøbing is done in 2025.

Here the Vectron locomotive with Talgo wagons or the Coradia Stream EMU's will be able to reach Sydbanens (Southern Line) top speed.


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## bongo-anders

They are doing some test drilling on the soil in preperation of the construction of the West Funen high speed line. 






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450 huller i den fynsk muld er del af forundersøgelser til ny bane - Building Supply DK






www.building-supply.dk


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