# [IL] Israel | road infrastructure - כבישים מהירים



## Urban Legend

road 431 is really going to help to many people.
this route is genius


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## greek_eagle

Glilot interchange ( Northern Tel Aviv)
*Just wondering about this interchange...are those street lights up ahead or is it a "highway" intersection?*


Motorway#31 Beer Sheva - Arad) ,Southern Israel 
*A second question regarding this road pictured....you state it is a motorway/freeway...though at most it looks like a two lane highway...does it lead to Motorway 31 maybe?*

*As far as the rest of the newer pics I've seen since my last post...great stuff! keep posting!:*cheers:


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## RoadUser

greek_eagle said:


> Glilot interchange ( Northern Tel Aviv)
> *Just wondering about this interchange...are those street lights up ahead or is it a "highway" intersection?*


I'm not sure exactly where you mean, but they probably are street lights. Most of the motorways and a good proportion of lesser roads are lit in their entirety. Almost all junctions in the country are lit.




> Motorway#31 Beer Sheva - Arad) ,Southern Israel
> *A second question regarding this road pictured....you state it is a motorway/freeway...though at most it looks like a two lane highway...does it lead to Motorway 31 maybe?*


Road 31 certainly is not a motorway -it's a fairly minor road that appears to start in the middle of nowhere near Ofakim and then go through Arad to the dead sea. I'm not sure that I've ever driven on it.


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## Hebrewtext

road no.9 Jerusalem


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## Hebrewtext

road no.80

the bridge over wadi Akbara near Zefat


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## Urban Legend

grat pics hebrewtext


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## TheCat

RoadUser said:


> I'm not sure exactly where you mean, but they probably are street lights. Most of the motorways and a good proportion of lesser roads are lit in their entirety. Almost all junctions in the country are lit.


I think he might be asking whether or not there are traffic lights on the motorway (it looks as if there is something like that up ahead), and I believe there are, because I know that Glilot is not a full interchange yet (a flyover has been built recently), but in that case I also don't believe that this road section is classified as a motorway.

However (to the poster who asked the question), as you can see by the blue sign, if one continues forward through the junction, he/she then reaches motorways 5 and 20. As RoadUser has explained previously, the colour of direction signs in Israel is that of the destination, and not the road on which they are on. I may be wrong however about this intersection, perhaps someone who lives in Israel can confirm.


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## AUchamps

Shalom,

I just want to say that your nation's highways look awesome(and very safe too). Good job.


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## RoadUser

TheCat said:


> I think he might be asking whether or not there are traffic lights on the motorway (it looks as if there is something like that up ahead), and I believe there are, because I know that Glilot is not a full interchange yet (a flyover has been built recently), but in that case I also don't believe that this road section is classified as a motorway.
> 
> However (to the poster who asked the question), as you can see by the blue sign, if one continues forward through the junction, he/she then reaches motorways 5 and 20. As RoadUser has explained previously, the colour of direction signs in Israel is that of the destination, and not the road on which they are on. I may be wrong however about this intersection, perhaps someone who lives in Israel can confirm.


Oh . . I was misunderstanding the question, and confusing Glilot with Ganot (a common mistake). 

Yes that is a traffic light in the picture. That picture is rather old. Since it was taken there is a new flyover that takes traffic from Road 2 to Road 5. Road 2 is not a motorway at that point. 

If you turn left there, over the new flyover, then you do still hit a traffic light on road 5. There is another new flyover under construction there, that will take traffic coming off Ayalon left briefly onto Road 5 and then 2, and that last traffic light will be removed. There are serious roadworks at Glilot - not only the new flyover, but the access ramps are being moved, etc.

The new flyover:










And the one that is under construction:
Before:










and after:


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## Hebrewtext

highway no.6 

u.c heading south to Be'er Sheba


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## AUchamps

hebrewtext said:


> highway no.6
> 
> u.c heading south to Be'er Sheba


When will that road be opened by, and how much is it expected to cost to ride the road(in shekels)?

Also what is the Shekel to Dollar rate?


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## Henriko

> As of March 2006, the pricing for up to 3 segments is 15.04 NIS, 17.94 for 4 segments, and 20.84 for 5 or more segments.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_6_(Israel)

1$ = 4.27 NIS


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## RoadUser

Hi all,

A few months ago, I had the dubious pleasure of driving from Rishon Lezion northwards into central Tel Aviv in the rush hour. the traffic on the Ayalon (Road 20) was so horrible that I took some pictures of it with my phone camera. Notice how the electronic signs helpfully let you know that all five lanes are stuck in traffic . . .


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## Ali_B

I've a question. Why some signage is trilinguage (English, Hebrew and Arabic) and other only bilingual (English - Hebrew) ... Are there someplaces in Israel where everything is trilingual and other bilingual and what's the official status of arabic in Israel?


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## RoadUser

Ali_B said:


> I've a question. Why some signage is trilinguage (English, Hebrew and Arabic) and other only bilingual (English - Hebrew) ... Are there someplaces in Israel where everything is trilingual and other bilingual and what's the official status of arabic in Israel?


Arabic is one of Israel's two official languages. As for the signs, I don't know the reason that some signs are trilingual and some are bilingual. There is a lot of trilingual signage, but as you can see, not all of it.


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## Hebrewtext

Ganot intr.


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## ZOHAR

wooow amazing!


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## RoadUser

Hi all,

I took some photos on my way to work this morning. I´ve only just discovered this forum - before this I had no idea anyone would be interested!

*Road 1* 

Approaching Ben Gurion Interchange










Ben Gurion Interchange: The very long bridge is part of the new railway between Ben Gurion Airport and Modiin which is opening in about ten days. When it opens I won't have to drive to work anymore!



















Approaching Shappirim Interchange:



















Approaching Ganot Interchange. This is where I turn off onto Road 4:










Here you can just about see a train between the two carriageways of the motorway:










*Road 4*











Approaching Aluf Sadeh Interchange:





































Bar Ilan Interchange:










The very old and woefully inadequate Givat Shmuel Interchange:










Coming up to Morasha Interchange: I turn off here onto Road 5










Signpost to Road 6:










Morasha Interchange:



















*Road 5*










Old-style signpost coming up to Kfar Hayarok Interchange:










Kfar Hayarok Interchange:



















Approaching Glilot Interchange where I turn off onto Road 2:










Half built flyover at Glilot:










New Glilot flyover opened recently:










*Road 2*










Hasira Interchange where I turn off to Herzliya, where I work:


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## ChrisZwolle

Thanks! Great stuff, Israeli signage seems to be adequate, but thank god for English transcription


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## TheCat

@RoadUser: you are the best! Post more stuff when you have it


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## TheCat

^^ It was, but lets please keep the thread more or less on topic. I'm sure a lot of people have their problems with Israel, but here is not the place. Thanks to all the people who posted nice and/or constructive comments. To those who have something bad to say and it doesn't relate to Israel's highways, please do not post in this thread.

Some more projects which are currently U/C:

*Carmel Tunnels*

This is a major infrastructure project whose purpose is to allow direct access to eastern Haifa, Haifa Bay, and the Kerayot (basically suburbs/satellite cities of Haifa, which bring the total population of the region to around 900,000). This project is essentially a bypass of the congested and old downtown Haifa. The project consists of bridges, interchanges, and two 4.7 km tunnels (Wikipedia).










*Ashdod-South Interchange*

A new interchange on Highway 4 that will serve as the southern entrance to the city of Ashdod, and also to connect the road with the train station:


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## TheCat

Entrance to a tunnel on the new Highway 417 (Makabit), which was featured on this thread at the beginning of the previous page:










Highway 6:


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## ZOHAR




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## RoadUser

We've had loads of pictures of Tel Aviv's Ayalon motorway on this thread. This one however (courtesy of Wikipedia) gives a good view of the railway lines going down the center. I have been travelling to work by train since the new line to Modiin was opened at the beginning of September. Not only does it save money, it also puts me in a good mood every morning and evening seeing all the cars stuck in traffic while I pass them in the train


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## ZOHAR




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## TheCat

A few updates.

*Ein Hakore Interchange (Highway 431 and Highway 42) U/C:*
A new bridge apparently has opened there.




























*Extension of the railway in the Ayalon Highway corridor to Rishon Lezion U/C:*



















*Access road to a new train station:*
The new road doesn't exist yet, but the sign warns that construction is starting.


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## RoadUser

Hi Cat,


The third railway line along the Ayalon corridor has been open for some time. They want to build a fourth line but have nowhere to put it. Various solutions are possible, but all would be very expensive. Also, Tel Aviv Hashalom station (underneath the Azrieli Center) only has three platforms and building a fourth one would be very difficult in the space available.

The new railway line you mention is the extention of the Ayalon line to Rishon Lezion. The Ayalon road (20) has been open as far as Rishon for some time (at least a year, since I used to drive a long it to work sometimes, when I worked in Rishon) but parts of it are still under construction.

The railway line is set to open in 2010, I think. It will include four new stations, as well as a fifth platform at Tel Aviv Hahagana (Tel Aviv's southmost station) which is being built now. The bridge over the Ayalon road in your picture extends all the way into the station now.

I don't know what the last picture in your posting is.

What we have had no pictures of, BTW, is the truly enormous work going on outside Modiin. Here, Roads 431 and 1 will meet at the Anaba Interchange, as well as the trains to Modiin and Jerusalem (new fast line set to open in 2011) from Tel Aviv. On Google Earth you can zoom out to about 40 miles and you can still see it.

This is Google Earth from 11,000 feet. On the right you can see the new Paatey Modiin railway station, which was opened in September:










Here are some more pictures from the contractor's website:




























Incidentally, I have been thinking about opening a new thread on Israeli railways in the Railways forum. The railway system here is quite small still, but it is expanding very rapidly and is becoming very useful and popular with commuters (despite the fact that they moan about it a lot!). I use it every day to go from Modiin to Herzliya. Does it sound like it warrants a separate thread there?


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## ChrisZwolle

The construction of the motorway between somewhere east of Tel Aviv to Be'er Sheva is a construction one can actually see from the International Space Station, which is at 350 - 460 km altitude.


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## RoadUser

Chriszwolle said:


> The construction of the motorway between somewhere east of Tel Aviv to Be'er Sheva is a construction one can actually see from the International Space Station, which is at 350 - 460 km altitude.


Interesting. That must be the southernmost sections of Road 6. Part of it is already open, the rest is supposed to open in about 6 months.


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## Verso

TheCat said:


>


Awesome!


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## Hebrewtext




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## RoadUser

Hi all,

Just a quick explanation - the above picture, posted by Hebrewtext, is an enormous bridge currently under construction also just outside Modiin, but on the other side of Modiin to the pictures I posted earlier, between Modiin and Jerusalem. 

It is actually a rail bridge, part of the new Tel Aviv-Jerusalem line currently under construction. It crosses Road no 3 near the Latrun Interchange.


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## dhlennon

oh well, I suppose it's a quicker way to drive tanks and missile-launchers around


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## ZOHAR

great pics everyone


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## TheCat

RoadUser said:


> Hi Cat,
> ...
> The new railway line you mention is the extention of the Ayalon line to Rishon Lezion. The Ayalon road (20) has been open as far as Rishon for some time (at least a year, since I used to drive a long it to work sometimes, when I worked in Rishon) but parts of it are still under construction.


Thanks, I corrected the title of the picture. I used the title from the Tapuz forum (that's also where all pictures are taken from), but I also found it strange, as I know that technically there are three railways in the Ayalon. Perhaps they meant that the third railway is being extended into the new station, but I don't know.

This is why I would like you to contribute more to this thread, since you know much more than me. I don't even live in Israel. 



> Incidentally, I have been thinking about opening a new thread on Israeli railways in the Railways forum. The railway system here is quite small still, but it is expanding very rapidly and is becoming very useful and popular with commuters (despite the fact that they moan about it a lot!). I use it every day to go from Modiin to Herzliya. Does it sound like it warrants a separate thread there?


Well, if you think that you can contribute interesting information to such a thread, then of course, why not?  The rail system in Israel can never be very big due to the country's size. However, perhaps it's not a bad idea to combine Israel Railways and the Jerusalem/Tel Aviv/Haifa light train (LRT) systems into such a thread. This way the thread will have more substance, and I know there are many pictures available for some of these LRT projects (such as the Jerusalem line).


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## Verso

TheCat and Hebrewtext have the same avatar.


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## TheCat

dhlennon said:


> oh well, I suppose it's a quicker way to drive tanks and missile-launchers around


Of course, look carefully at the pictures and you will see countless tanks stuck in traffic jams on the motorways throughout Israel. But the missile launchers are the worst. They clog the right-hand lanes on the major motorways, causing major delays. :lol:


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## RoadUser

TheCat said:


> Of course, look carefully at the pictures and you will see countless tanks stuck in traffic jams on the motorways throughout Israel. But the missile launchers are the worst. They clog the right-hand lanes on the major motorways, causing major delays. :lol:


Yes. I stopped driving my tank to work when I couldn't stand the traffic any more. Actually the public missile launchers are a great improvement. :lol:


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## ZOHAR

^^:rofl:


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## Shezan

Verso said:


> Awesome!


wow...impressive intersection !


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## RoadUser

Chriszwolle said:


> Trains in the central reservation are pretty cool. In the Netherlands, we also have such a road, a section of the A10 beltway around Amsterdam carries both metro an regular trains. In Germany, i remember Essen, which has tramways in the median of the A40.


In that case, here is another one - Road 531 has a railway line in its central reservation. The road, which is only partially built, will be one of the east-west connections for Road 6 and the rest of the network. The railway will connect Kfar Sava and Herzliya via Raanana.

Road 431, which is presently under construction, is also supposed to have a railway line going along it, connecting Modiin and Rishon Lezion. Completion time: for the road 2009, for the railway, some time in the next millennium 










(Picture from Wikipedia)


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## Urban Legend

all of you, thank you for the photos.
it's great.


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## Urban Legend

radi6404 said:


> They are German and are used for short distances in Germany, if you are on the second floor the train doesn´t ride smooth at all and the worst, it doesn´t have aircondition. The alter generation of these trains however with the doors lower is way better, it runs way smoother, looks way mroe modern inside and has aircondition, it is also very quiet, almost unhearable.


i don't like those trains neither. no place to the legs.




RoadUser said:


> Schools, however, are open on Fridays, although not for as many hours as on regular weekdays.


many schools closed on fridays.


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## TheCat

*Several Updates*

There are several big road projects going on in Israel right now, so let me provide some updates here for those who are interested.

*Highway 431 Nesharim Interchange U/C*

Before:









After:









Bridge 1A:









Bridge 1B will pass here, over Highway 6 (the red markings are temporary):









Bridge 2:









Bridge 2 (another picture):









Bridge 3:









Bridge 3A:









Bridges 5A & 5B:









Future ramp from Highway 6 to Highway 44:


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## TheCat

*Highway 431 Gan Ha-Vradim Interchange U/C*

Aerial (red dot is the location of the interchange):









Diagram/map:









Ad:









Several pictures from different angles:


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## TheCat

*Highway 4 Raanana Intechange U/C*

This will replace a traffic light intersection with an interchange on Highway 4 on the route of Raanana - Kfar Sava North. Not much has been built yet, but a lot of digging was done. Highway 4 is a pretty old coastal highway, part of which is a motorway, and the other part still uses traffic lights, which are gradually being replaced by interchanges.

Ad for the project:









The current traffic light intersection:


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## TheCat

*La Guardia Intersection in Tel Aviv*

This is a very large and important intersection that has many different bus lines go through it, and is also the gateway into the old centre of Tel Aviv via the Ayalon Highway (Highway 20). The intersection is currently being upgraded with a twin tunnel. It will also provide a less congested connection to/from Highway 20.

The plan (I drew the red arrows to indicate the location of the tunnel):









On-ramp to Highway 20:









Two pictures of the intersection:

















Major bus stop:









New signage:

















This sign tells public transportation to continue straight, past the tunnel:









Construction pictures of the tunnel itself:


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## rheintram

I only took a few of these roads and I was really surprised when I suddenly had a red traffic light in front of me on what I thought was a motorway  The other thing that caught me by surprise is the israeli sign for stopping, which is a hand and not a STOP, like in central Europe. I almost didn't stop...


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## TheCat

^^ Yeah, some motorways in Israel, like Highway 4 and several others have traffic lights, but as far as I know, they are gradually being converted to interchanges. The sections with traffic lights are not classified as motorways. Usually these sections have green guide signs for destinations along the motorway, as opposed to blue, which are only located on motorways.

Also, there are many 2x2 roads in Israel with a hard shoulder that are not classified as motorways because they either have traffic lights, or simply don't adhere to all the design standards of motorways. The official length of Israel's motorway network is quite small as a result of this. However, Israel is a small country and these traffic lights aren't usually a problem, except for the centre area (around Tel Aviv) which is having extreme congestion problems even though Highway 20 is a complete motorway.

I think they should build a high speed motorway through the Negev desert to Eilat, to replace the winding and dangerous 2-lane road which currently exists. Even though the traffic volumes are low, this should be done for safety rather than capacity. There are major obstacles however, since parts of the 2-lane road often get washed off during winter floods in the desert.

And yes, the stop sign is cool  I guess they don't want to write "stop" in 3 languages like everything else.


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## RoadUser

rheintram said:


> I only took a few of these roads and I was really surprised when I suddenly had a red traffic light in front of me on what I thought was a motorway  The other thing that caught me by surprise is the israeli sign for stopping, which is a hand and not a STOP, like in central Europe. I almost didn't stop...


Hi,

There aren't really that many traffic lights left on major highways (any road with traffic lights is by definition not a motorway).

The main offenders are: 

The Glilot interchange (Roads 2, 20 and 5) which still has a traffic light which causes bad congestion. The flyover to replace it is currently under construction

The Morasha interchange (Roads 4 and 5). Road 5, which is a full motorway at this point, goes over the top. Road 4 goes underneath via a double traffic light. There are enough lanes there (about 6 in each direction, I think) that traffic is not too horrible. 

Some of the interchanges on the Tel Aviv's Ayalon Highway (Road 20) have traffic lights on the streets above the motorway. This can cause tailbacks onto the motorway. It's hard to think of any real solution for this, since they are just busy city streets that cross the motorway.

Some main roads, as TheCat said, are not motorways but dual carriageways with traffic light junctions. A good example of this is Road 40, which is a north-south highway parallel to Road 4. The busier junctions on these highways get upgraded to interchanges. Road 4 itself used to be like this, but the busiest section, known as the Geha highway, is now almost (but not quite) at motorway standard.


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## Verso

That's one cool intersection. 

I don't wanna get political, but strictly from the transportation point of view, I guess there are border crossings between Israel and its neighboring countries (is there any country that doesn't have any border crossing with Israel?). But I've also heard that if you've been to Israel (like having Israeli visa in your passport), you're not allowed to enter Arab countries (and vice-versa?). But if this were really the case, then I guess there would be no border crossings between Israel and any neighboring country. :dunno:


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## TheCat

^^ It's a valid question. There are border crossings with Jordan and Egypt, with which Israel has a peace agreement and hence obviously you will not be denied entry into these countries with an Israeli stamp/passport. I know that people traveling by bus through these crossings have to cross the border by foot and continue to a bus on the other side. With regards to cars, I know that technically one can just drive through (after passing a checkpoint of course), but I don't know of any specific restrictions, which I'm almost sure exist. Someone who knows better than me can probably comment. Of course, you cannot cross into Lebanon or Syria by land, which are technically in a state of war with Israel.

There is even a speed limit sign at the border, although it is outdated:










The sign is inaccurate because the speed limit on Israel's motorways has been 110 km/h by default for quite a while, even though on all motorways but one you will find signs bearing a lower limit.


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## Verso

^^ Thanks, TheCat! I was also asking, b/c Israel is a transit country between Asia and Africa, or at least that's its position, I don't know how very transit it really functions. I wonder, if I could drive to Israel, considering you still have to go through Syria, Iraq or Saudi Arabia to reach Jordan, or through Libya or Sudan from the other side to reach Egypt. I guess I could, but couldn't return.


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## TheCat

^^ Yeah, probably not a good idea, although you might be able to do it via ferry through Cyprus/Turkey, I'm not sure.

And keeping on the subject of border crossings, I'll post some pictures I found on Wikipedia in the border crossings thread 

The link (just in case): http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=19133146&postcount=352


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## Verso

It is possible:


> Israel recognises Jordanian stamps in passports and visas and vice versa. That is to say that Jordan will not create difficulties for tourists arriving at this border crossing with a passport bearing an Israeli stamp. Please Note: If you wish to proceed to other Arab countries, in addition to Jordan and Egypt, you should ask for the Israeli stamp on a separate paper, otherwise you will be refused entry.


_http://www.israel-embassy.org.uk/web/pages/jordan.htm#Visas_


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## TheCat

Rural road in Israel. This is Highway 653.


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## TheCat

Pretty cool video of a guy using a pair of radar detectors on highways in Israel:


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## LtBk

Does Israeli motorways have lots of speed cameras?


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## Norsko

What does the arrow shaped sign next to the 50 km/h sign means? Never seen that one before


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## ChrisZwolle

I think it means "within city limits".


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## Norsko

^^ Thanks


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## Urban Legend

radar detectors sound is very annoying.


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## Verso

Norsko said:


> What does the arrow shaped sign next to the 50 km/h sign means? Never seen that one before


I think that "arrow" is house. 

What was the general speed limit on motorways, when it wasn't 110 km/h yet? It says 90, but also 100 km/h; what does that mean?


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## RoadUser

Verso said:


> I think that "arrow" is house.
> 
> What was the general speed limit on motorways, when it wasn't 110 km/h yet? It says 90, but also 100 km/h; what does that mean?


I've only seen one of those signs a couple of times; there aren't that many border crossings that are open. . . 

The "up arrow" shaped sign means "built-up area", i.e. in town.

The speed limit on most motorways is 100kph. The exceptions are Road 6 - 110kph - and Tel Aviv's Ayalon Highway (Road 20), where it's 90kph.


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## Norsko

Verso and Roaduser: Thanks! Now I clearly see the house


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## LtBk

100km/h is too low IMO.


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## TheCat

^^ I agree, but what can you do, it's also the speed limit on Ontario freeways, and on Interstate highways in many US states (like NY).


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## TheCat

LtBk said:


> Does Israeli motorways have lots of speed cameras?


Yeah, quite a lot from my experience. Also quite a few red light cameras (even though red light violation is still somewhat common in some parts of Israel, mostly during the short left turn phase, right after the light turns yellow). Police presence is also quite high and very felt, since the country is very small and due to the security situation, there is a lot of police around.

But the funny thing is that radar detectors are not just legal there, they are almost encouraged sometimes. You can dial *001 on your cell phone and you get a report of all the speed traps in a certain radius. Also, there was this really hilarious voice (made to sound funny, on purpose) alerting the driver of speed traps when we were driven from the airport in 2005. Pretty cool


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## LtBk

I bet the Israeli government made a lot of money from the cameras.


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## TheCat

I found a fresh photo of Highway 6 on Wikipedia. You can click on it to see the larger version, which shows some of the signage at the entrance:


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## RoadUser

Hi all,

I found this rather nice picture of the Kessem Interchange (Roads 5 and 6) on Wikipedia, and thought it worth posting here:










Here's an aerial view of the same interchange, from the official Road 6 website:


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## The Knowledgeable

^^Haven't you noticed that's my avatar?


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## RoadUser

The Knowledgeable said:


> ^^Haven't you noticed that's my avatar?


Yes. I only put that picture in to show the first picture "in context".


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## Augusto

RoadUser said:


> We've had loads of pictures of Tel Aviv's Ayalon motorway on this thread. This one however (courtesy of Wikipedia) gives a good view of the railway lines going down the center. I have been travelling to work by train since the new line to Modiin was opened at the beginning of September. Not only does it save money, it also puts me in a good mood every morning and evening seeing all the cars stuck in traffic while I pass them in the train


Nice to see that you're building railroads also. But I saw on the Israel railways website that only 100.000 passengers per month are expected on the new route to the airport. That's a very low ridership for 64 trains per day! Is it the same on the other routes? What's the average ridership on the network?


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## TheCat

^^ In 2007, the annual ridership in the whole system was 31.7 million, which amounts to 2.6 million per month. This is up from 12.7 million in 2000, which was approximately the year after which the country suddenly decided to invest in its neglected rail infrastructure.

Statistics taken from Wikipedia.


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## RoadUser

TheCat said:


> ^^ In 2007, the annual ridership in the whole system was 31.7 million, which amounts to 2.6 million per month. This is up from 12.7 million in 2000, which was approximately the year after which the country suddenly decided to invest in its neglected rail infrastructure.
> 
> Statistics taken from Wikipedia.


That's exactly what I was going to write. The interesting thing about Israeli railway ridership is not the actual figures, but the astronomical growth in ridership over the past 15 years or so.

This graph is from the Israel Railways website:










After several decades of neglect, serious investment in the railways actually began in the early to mid-nineties. 

It really is time there was a thread on Israeli railways in the railways forum. I'll have to do something about it.


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## WA

RoadUser said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I found this rather nice picture of the Kessem Interchange (Roads 5 and 6) on Wikipedia, and thought it worth posting here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an aerial view of the same interchange, from the official Road 6 website:


Wow those powerline look sooo scary! Also pollutinghno:


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## TheCat

^^ Most high-voltage transmission lines in Israel are built along motorways. I believe this is also the case in many other countries, but Israel is small, so pretty much all the motorways have these lines running along.


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## WA

TheCat said:


> ^^ Most high-voltage transmission lines in Israel are built along motorways. I believe this is also the case in many other countries, but Israel is small, so pretty much all the motorways have these lines running along.


Oh yeah, In New Jersey along the NJ Turnpike theres rows of them escpecially in Newark area.


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## Urban Legend

*Haifa*


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## TheCat

christos-greece said:


> Looks great motorway  the railway pass in the middle of this motorway (island)?


Yes.


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## RoadUser

christos-greece said:


> Looks great motorway  the railway pass in the middle of this motorway (island)?


Yes. In fact, Rishon Lezion - Rishonim station is also between the two carriageways of Road 431:










We've never had a thread about railways stations in the middle of motorways here. Maybe we should.

At the moment there are 5 railway stations in the middle of Road 20, and four more being built. Two or three new stations will be built along Road 531, which is supposed to be constructed in the next couple of years.

At Paatey Modiin station, the platforms will be between the carriageways of the urban section of Road 431. Only one carriageway is open now (the other is under construction), and you have to walk via a tunnel under the road to get from the ticket hall to the platforms. 

A railway line is also supposed to be built along the whole of Road 431, between Rishon Lezion and Modiin. 

The final result will be something like 13-14 stations built in the center divide of motorways. Is it an Israeli pecularity, or is it common?


----------



## Kalamai

The new Road 431 again. 
Some interchanges.

Nesharim: Roads 431, 6, 44, 424.










Anava: Roads 431, 1.










Ein Hakore/Kiryat Rishon: Roads 431, 4, 42, 4311


----------



## RoadUser

Hi all,

Road 431 is finally starting to appear on the online maps. These are all in Hebrew but you should get the point.

1) The motorway system south of Tel Aviv:










2) Triangle near Modiin:










3) Triangle near Rishon Lezion:










4) Anava Interchange:


----------



## christos-greece

Kalamai said:


> The new Road 431 again.
> Some interchanges.
> 
> Nesharim: Roads 431, 6, 44, 424.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anava: Roads 431, 1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ein Hakore/Kiryat Rishon: Roads 431, 4, 42, 4311


Interesting plans @Kalamai


----------



## TheCat

It's been a long time. I came back from a short trip to Israel a few weeks ago, and only today got a chance to upload 2 driving videos that I made. The videos were upconverted to HD so you can watch them on the big player, although the actual footage is not HD.

Night drive from the airport to my hometown:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SQllwU3wI8

Day drive from my hometown to a city at the outskirts of the desert:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAqx1Cu9TaE

The descriptions of the videos are very detailed, and so is the labeling of all the roads in the videos, so I'm not going to go into detail here in the thread.


----------



## lpioe

^^ Very nice vids!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, I checked them out too.. 

The daylight video is a bit too fast for my opinion  But I already replied that on youtube.


----------



## TheCat

^^ Yep, you beat me to it  Thanks. I agree 100% that it's too fast. The original one I made was almost 15 minutes, and I thought that with a Director account I'll be able to upload it, only to discover that Youtube has set a hard limit of 10 minutes on all accounts. I didn't really want to split it into 2 parts, so I simply took my 15-minute video and sped it up about 40% more.


----------



## Xpressway

From what i could notice in that video, lighting in israeli highways is very carefully planned.


----------



## TheCat

^^ Well, I don't know the details, but as far as I know pretty much all the intersections and interchanges are always lighted fully, whereas rural sections of highway are usually not lighted, but instead almost all the roads (at least the more important ones) have reflectors embedded in the pavement (usually on the edge lines).

One nice thing in Israel compared to Canada is that the national standards demand all roads to have a yellow side line at the edge (unless there is a curb). In Canada (at least in Ontario) I stumbled upon many rural country roads where this line was either completely faded or never drawn in the first place, and it's sometimes quite hard to drive in pitch-dark conditions.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Does someone have a good translation of "motorways" (plural) for the title of this thread?


----------



## TheCat

^^ Actually, the current title is singular, not plural.

The plural is:
כבישים מהירים


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What's the prefix of motorways in Israel? Is it just "Kvish 6" or "highway 6". In many countries, we say "A6" or "I-6", I wonder if there is something similar in Israel.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Something I made using Google Maps


----------



## TheCat

^^ Ooh thanks, very nice map 

Israel does not use prefixes on any of its road numbers. In general, the convention is to number the more important highways with either 1 or 2 digits, and all other secondary and regional roads with 3 or 4 digits.

However, as you can clearly see, the numbers do not always suggest the design standards of the roads. Most sections of the 1-digit roads are motorways, but with many inconsistencies:

Highways that continue beyond the "green line" (into the West Bank), do so as regular non-motorway roads (e.g. highways 1 and 5).
Highway 2 is essentially a motorway its whole length (no at-grade intersections), but because of relatively strict (as far as I know, European) motorway standards in the country, large parts of it were downgraded from motorway status (e.g. narrow/no shoulders, tight curves, etc.). However, these problems should be fixed in the near future.
Highway 4 is similar, but has several sections officially classified as motorways, and others that aren't. I'm not sure if it will be converted to a motorway in the near future.

The numbers, however, are mainly for the regional importance of the roads, and not their quality. As a result, some motorways are numbered using 2 or 3 digits (e.g. Highways 20 and 431). These are regional or connecting roads, and are numbered as such (this is similar to Interstates in the US having 3 digits when they connect other more important Interstates).

There are some other caveats with Israel's motorway system as well. For example, the official default speed limit on motorways is 110 km/h. In practice, however, whenever you enter a motorway you are always greeted with a sign showing a lower limit (90 or 100). The only exception is Highway 6, where you can actually travel 110 in most sections. I think that this is silly, but possibly when the planned upgrades to the relatively old Israeli motorway system is completed, these limits will be removed.

Currently, the only way construction standards are indicated on Israeli signs and maps (those that show the number symbols) is via colour: blue numbers indicate motorways, and the other numbers (red or green, depending on significance) indicate non-motorways. However, even here there are some inconsistencies, with certain sections being upgraded to motorway signs without updating the numbers to blue, and vice versa.

By the way, in Hebrew:
"kvish" = road
"kvish mahir" (the title of this thread, but singular) = fast road, i.e. motorway


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another big map, this time of the Gush Dan metropolitan area (Tel Aviv-Yafo)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Amazing night picture:


----------



## TheCat

Nice pic  I still have a bunch of road photos from my trip a month ago, which I haven't uploaded, but I plan to do so soon, since I made them mostly for this forum. The quality isn't great though, since I used my cell phone.


----------



## Foolish Farmer

The picture is amazing and fascinating! Was it taken in Tel Aviv?


----------



## RoadUser

Foolish Farmer said:


> The picture is amazing and fascinating! Was it taken in Tel Aviv?


Yes, that's Tel Aviv. The road is the Ayalon Freeway, aka Road 20, and the big buildings are the Azrieli Center, which is basically a large shopping mall with three office towers on top. 

I see there's been plenty of activity in this thread since I last dropped in 

The big news here is still Road 431. While the road is finished, there is still work going on connecting the various interchanges to the roads it connects to. Nesharim Interchange, with Road 6, is finished now, and most of the connections at the enormous Ein Hakore interchange, which is definitely the most complex in the country, are finished too, although there is still work on Road 42. I was there on Monday, and while the connections all seem to be open, the roads under the motorway are still being worked on.

The Anava Interchange, near Modiin, is complete. Both carriageways of the urban section of Road 431, which goes into Modiin, are now open now, although the interchange which allows entrance to Paatey Modiin railway station and a large shopping area is not. You have to leave the road via the off ramps and get back on via the on-ramps while the bridges are being built.

Other news: 

- The next section of Road 6, which will take it as far north as Yokneam, is going to open on July 20.

- The new bridge at the Glilot Interchange finally opened, connecting Road 20 and Road 5. It was several months late. This means that there are now, at last, no traffic lights at Glilot, which is one of the busiest junctions in the country. I have no idea whether this has reduced congestion, but I would assume that it has.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 20: Ayalon freeway - נתיבי איילון*

route:









pics from Google Earth:

1.









2.









3.









4. 









5.









6.









7.









8.









9. 









10.









11.









12.









13.









14.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Knowledgeable said:


> Transportation Ministry to Hebraize road signs
> 
> *Minister Katz concocts plan meant to create uniform spelling of names on roadside signs so that English, Arabic names will mimic Hebrew ones. Arab MKs slam move: 'Yisrael Katz will come and go but Shefa-'Amr is here to stay,' says Hadash Chairman Barakeh*
> Udi Etzion
> 
> Transportation Minister Yisrael Katz recently ordered a change in roadside signs across Israel's highways so that the all names appearing on them in English and Arabic would be a direct transliteration of Hebrew.
> 
> For example, the sign directing drivers to Jerusalem would read Yerushalayim, Nazareth will become Natsrat and Caesarea will become Kesariya. Arab names are to be changed accordingly.
> 
> The Transportation Ministry has been working on the project for over a year and says its main purpose is to create uniform roadside spelling for more than 2,000 names of cities, towns and villages.
> 
> Current road signs, says the ministry, reflect the vast changes and development in Israel's highways, and as such there are many variations of places' names. Caesarea, for instance, appears as Caesarea, Qesarya, Qesariyya and Ceysaria.
> 
> "The lack of uniform spelling on signs has been a problem for those speaking foreign languages, citizens and tourists alike," explains Yeshaayahu Ronen, head of the ministry's Transportation Planning Department.
> 
> "It impairs drivers' ability to find their way and we have decided to follow many other countries around the world and make the transliteration of all names correspond directly with Hebrew." Katz authorized Ronen's department to decide which signs would be replaced.
> 
> "Almost all Israeli communities' names have previous names. Some Palestinian maps still refer to the Israeli cities by their pre-1948 names, since they see them as settlements," said Katz. "I will not allow that on our signs. This government, and certainly this minister, will not allow anyone to turn Jewish Jerusalem to Palestinian al-Quds."
> 
> Katz is convinced the new style will not infringe on Arab drivers' ability to find their way. "We will continue to serve the Arab public and have signs in Arabic. I have no problem with an Area B (defined by the Oslo Accords as areas under the Palestinian Authority's civil control and Israel's security control) sign reading 'Nablus' in Arabic.
> 
> "The names on the signs should reflect the reality of the local population, which is exactly why Israeli signs must have Hebrew transliteration."
> 
> As for the cost of the new plan, the Transportation Ministry said the change will be gradual. Ministry Spokesman Avner Ovadia says that no existing sign will be changed and that the new ordinance will only affect new signs, or those replaced due to wear.
> 
> (Criticism)
> *MK Tibi: Al-Quds will remain al-Quds*
> 
> Arab Knesset members were infuriated by the proposal: "Al-Quds will remain al-Quds and Shfaram will remain Shefa-'Amr," said MK Ahmad Tibi (United Arab List-Ta'al).
> 
> "Minister Katz is mistaken if he thinks that changing a few words can erase the existence of the Arab people or their connection to Israel. This is a blatant attempt at harming the Arabic language and everything it represents."
> 
> Hadash Chairman Mohammad Barakeh added that the decision was too far-reaching: "Yisrael Katz is merely the transportation minister and it appears that the power went to his head… I hereby inform him that he cannot change the nature of a place. Yisrael Katz will come and go but Shefa-'Amr is here to stay."
> 
> Minister of Minority Affairs Avishay Braverman criticized the decision as well: "Road signs are not a political issue. Arabic is an official language in the State of Israel," he said.
> 
> "I would suggest the Minister Katz place much needed street signs in Arab communities before he changes road signs."
> 
> *'Criticism represents fringe minority'*
> 
> "Minister Katz has deiced to set a uniform standard to the 2,500 names appearing on Israel's roadside signs. According to that decision, communities' names would be spelled according to their official Israeli names," said Barak Sari, Katz's communications advisor.
> 
> "(The names of) Jewish communities, and Jerusalem first and foremost, would be written in their Hebrew names in Hebrew, English and Arabic; just as Arab communities' names, like Umm al-Fahm for example, would be written in their Arab name in all three languages.
> 
> The criticism aimed at the decision, added his statement, "Represents a fringe minority which is willing to accept attempts by anti-Israeli and anti-Zionist elements to annul Israel's identity as a Jewish and democratic state.
> 
> "Anyone willing to refer to Jerusalem as al-Quds on official State signs is collaborating with the Palestinian propaganda which does not recognize post-1948 Jewish communities and still demands they be called by their Arab names."
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3745563,00.html


Can't say I'm too excited... I'm usually in favor of the local name, but in case of different alphabets, English might be better.


----------



## wyqtor

Imposing naming is not a very good idea - it's like us writing on road signs *Târgu Mureş / Törgú Múres* or *Székelyudvárhely / Secheiudvarhei* where Hungarians are more than 50% of the population. This is both rediculous and nonsensical because the translations of the respective names are Marosvásárhely and Odorheiu Secuiesc respectively. 

Direction signs are intended to be helpful, not political.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

wyqtor said:


> Direction signs are intended to be helpful, not political.


Tell Belgium that :lol:


----------



## TheCat

^^ I don't think changing the names of the ancient cities and towns is a good idea, since I'm pretty sure seeing "Yerushalaim" will confuse the heck out of many people (especially tourists), whereas "Jerusalem" is known by most. Same with "Tiberias", which would become "Tveria" under this scheme. Can't comment on the Arabic names since I cannot read them, though I presume if it is known by most Arabs as "Al Quds" then perhaps that's what it should remain.

However, I think this is missing the point. Israel DOES have a very big problem with consistency/uniformity. For example, the "Caesarea, Qesarya, Qesariyya and Ceysaria" is indeed a big problem, and should be fixed (in this case, I'd say "Caesarea" is the best name, as that is the most widely accepted English spelling, even though in Hebrew it is called "Keisariya").

So there is definitely a lot of work to be done, but it should simply focus on standardization. In other words, choose one spelling and stick with it all the time. All modern towns should stick with a single "Hebraised" spelling (currently there are no standard transliteration rules, so you get many variations). However, I think the widely-accepted English and Arabic names of famous towns should remain as they are, but spelled consistently and correctly.


----------



## dark_shadow1

Highway 1 is going to be widened and straightened, check this out:









*The green line will be the new highway, the yellow part will be tunnel.
They are going to:
1. Add an extra lane on both directions to the entire road
2. Two 650 meters long tunnels+another tunnel (length is unknown)
3. 800 meters long bridge
4. At least 2 new interchanges (to highways 9 and 16)

This entire thing will cost at least 500 million US $ (as we all know projects in Israel, it will cost double the planned cost which is 1 billion US $).


----------



## dark_shadow1

A video of the highway 1 project:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRM0eUh7Kus&feature=related


----------



## Kalamai

dark_shadow1 said:


> A video of the highway 1 project:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRM0eUh7Kus&feature=related


Thanks.

BTW, you can embedd youtube videos here:






Another related video.


----------



## Kalamai

21 July 2009. The northern segment of Road 6 (the Cross-Israel Highway) between the Iron Junction and Yokne'am was opened to traffic after two years of construction.
The 18-kilometer segment includes bridges, tunnels. The cost of the segment was NIS 1.3 billion (about $330 mln).

A few pictures (by שחר ערן from tapuz forum)


----------



## Kalamai

June 1, 2009.

The mining stage of the Carmel tunnel under the Mount Carmel, just under Haifa neighborhoods.
So far it is the longest tunnel in Israel - 9 km (4.5 x 2) undeground.
The works were provided by a chinese company CCECC. About 600 chinese workers worked on the project.

Here is a video (mainly in hebrew).
It was mentioned there, that when the project managers sow what kind of machinery the chinese going to use, there was a greatd deal of doubt if they will be able to do the job. But evetually they did it excellently, a few months ahead of schedule.


----------



## Danylo17

Israel is an amazing country :bow:

The roads look very good.. but the overall infrastructure in Israel is well done 

I'm wondering if there will be a motorway/expressway to Eilat in the future..?


----------



## TheCat

Kalamai said:


> June 1, 2009.
> 
> The mining stage of the Carmel tunnel under the Mount Carmel, just under Haifa neighborhoods.
> So far it is the longest tunnel in Israel - 9 km (4.5 x 2) undeground.
> The works were provided by a chinese company CCECC. About 600 chinese workers worked on the project.
> 
> Here is a video (mainly in hebrew).
> It was mentioned there, that when the project managers sow what kind of machinery the chinese going to use, there was a greatd deal of doubt if they will be able to do the job. But evetually they did it excellently, a few months ahead of schedule.
> 
> ...


Oh wow, great news! For some reason I was always under the impression that this project was going to be completed in many years, but the Chinese have done a great job. It will be indeed awesome to see this completed in just over a year. A project that's ahead of schedule, now that's a rarity 



Danylo17 said:


> Israel is an amazing country :bow:
> 
> The roads look very good.. but the overall infrastructure in Israel is well done
> 
> I'm wondering if there will be a motorway/expressway to Eilat in the future..?


I always hope for such an expressway too, but I don't think it will be done anytime in the near future. The low traffic volumes do not justify the great cost of such a project, although eventually I'd like to see a motorway running from Metula to Eilat. Possibly it will be done as an extension of Highway 6 in the very far future.


----------



## RoadUser

TheCat said:


> Oh wow, great news! For some reason I was always under the impression that this project was going to be completed in many years, but the Chinese have done a great job. It will be indeed awesome to see this completed in just over a year. A project that's ahead of schedule, now that's a rarity
> 
> 
> 
> I always hope for such an expressway too, but I don't think it will be done anytime in the near future. The low traffic volumes do not justify the great cost of such a project, although eventually I'd like to see a motorway running from Metula to Eilat. Possibly it will be done as an extension of Highway 6 in the very far future.


I seriously doubt that's going to happen. It's not worth it, financially. Despite all the talk, I also doubt they'll ever build a railway to Eilat, unless it can be proven that it's worth it to run freight trains down there. Even so, it would still be too slow for passenger lines.

On a similar subject, I used the southern section of Road 6 a couple of weeks ago for the first time, from the Nesharim Interchange (near Ramle, where Road 6 joins Road 431) to about 20km north of Beer Sheva, where it links seamlessly with Road 40. Unlike the larger-than-life Road 431, it's not terribly impressive in itself - it's just an ordinary 4-lane motorway, but it certainly dramatically cuts journey times and makes Beer Sheva more accessible. It's also toll-free after a certain point.

PS. Following up from my message of July 10th - all of the interchange connections on Road 431 are now finished, AFAIK.


----------



## TheCat

^^ I also traveled that section a few months ago, you can see it in one of the videos I posted on my Youtube channel. I actually filmed Highway 6 in its entirety at the time, even though shortly after the section to Yokneam was opened.

The nice thing about Highway 6 are the low traffic volumes, at least at the time we drove on it. You can comfortably speed your way through.


----------



## RoadUser

TheCat said:


> I actually filmed Highway 6 in its entirety at the time,


 :shocked:

When's the cinema release ?


----------



## TheCat

^^
Enjoy :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAqx1Cu9TaE

If you have enough bandwidth/processing power, select "HD" at the bottom. There is also another video on my channel of some other highways (1, 2, 5, 20), though in the dark. And of course, a bunch of videos I made in Canada.


----------



## Kalamai

Highway 2 ( Kvish haKhof) renovation. 

Road widening and a new bridge above Poleg stream near Netanya.

By GTS8 from Tapuz:










During the works (by CivilEng from Tapuz)


----------



## TheCat

^^ When is Road 2 going to become an official "blue" motorway?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There will be eight lanes near Netanya? Or from Tel Aviv to Netanya?


----------



## Kalamai

ChrisZwolle said:


> There will be eight lanes near Netanya? Or from Tel Aviv to Netanya?


For the time being, the forth lane to the northen direction starts just before this place and goes up to the Poleg interchange. Actually it is a very long (1.5 km) exit lane. But, as it may be seen on the picture, the bridge is wide enough for 4 lanes in both directions, so it probably was built keeping in mind further road widening.


----------



## christos-greece

Israel has 4X4 lanes motorways indeed; how many km that type of motorway (4x4) reaches?


----------



## RoadUser

christos-greece said:


> Israel has 4X4 lanes motorways indeed; how many km that type of motorway (4x4) reaches?


I think the only true 8-lane motorway in Israel is the central section of Road 20 (the Ayalon Highway). That section is about 10km. When Road 20 leaves Tel Aviv northwards and southwards it becomes 2+2.

Road 431 has a 4-lane section near Rishon Lezion, but I'm not sure whether this is in both directions (4+4) or only westbound (4+3)

Other than that I think all 4-lane sections are simply widened as they approach an exit, where the 4th lane becomes an exit lane.


----------



## dark_shadow1

Some random guy driving from Nazareth Illit to Be'er Sheva, mostly through highway 6:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAqx1Cu9TaE&feature=related


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Not some random guy, but a respected SSC forum member


----------



## TheCat

^^:lol: Thanks.

EDIT: I actually have about 300 photos from another drive I made during the same trip, but I haven't uploaded them. Not sure about the best way to do it (link to an album, or post directly here in sections).


----------



## dark_shadow1

TheCat said:


> ^^:lol: Thanks.
> 
> EDIT: I actually have about 300 photos from another drive I made during the same trip, but I haven't uploaded them. Not sure about the best way to do it (link to an album, or post directly here in sections).


It's a small net after all 0.o


----------



## The Knowledgeable

Not to mention the fact that he posted them in this very thread 



TheCat said:


> It's been a long time. I came back from a short trip to Israel a few weeks ago, and only today got a chance to upload 2 driving videos that I made. The videos were upconverted to HD so you can watch them on the big player, although the actual footage is not HD.
> 
> Night drive from the airport to my hometown:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SQllwU3wI8
> 
> Day drive from my hometown to a city at the outskirts of the desert:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAqx1Cu9TaE
> 
> The descriptions of the videos are very detailed, and so is the labeling of all the roads in the videos, so I'm not going to go into detail here in the thread.


----------



## The Knowledgeable

edit


----------



## odlum833

Isreal uses yellow hard shoulder for motorways exactly the same as Ireland - in fact you could not tell the markings apart by the looks of the pictures. It looks exactly the same. Example http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/NewM50Dublin.JPG. I think the two only "European" countries that use this form of marking? Does Isreal also use American style yellow diamond "new world" signage?...and if it does who is copying who?


Great looking roads!


----------



## The Knowledgeable

^^Thanks!



odlum833 said:


> Isreal uses yellow hard shoulder for motorways exactly the same as Ireland - in fact you could not tell the markings apart by the looks of the pictures. It looks exactly the same. Example http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/NewM50Dublin.JPG. I think the two only "European" countries that use this form of marking?


Only that you drive on the left  I seem to recall South Africa also having yellow hard shoulders, but they drive on the "wrong" side too.



> Does Isreal also use American style yellow diamond "new world" signage?


Nope.


----------



## odlum833

The Knowledgeable said:


> Nope.


awww hno: But we could have been friends.... 

Nice roads - even nicer skyline! Must visit one day. Tel Aviv look's "interesting".


----------



## TheCat

odlum833 said:


> Isreal uses yellow hard shoulder for motorways exactly the same as Ireland - in fact you could not tell the markings apart by the looks of the pictures. It looks exactly the same. Example http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/NewM50Dublin.JPG. I think the two only "European" countries that use this form of marking? Does Isreal also use American style yellow diamond "new world" signage?...and if it does who is copying who?
> 
> 
> Great looking roads!


Heh yeah, Israel uses the yellow margins on all roads that don't have a curb, not just motorways. But you are right, I don't know any other countries that have these conventions except for Ireland and South Africa. I've seen yellow margins in some other countries (like UAE and I think Pakistan) but their usage seems to be inconsistent. In Israel it is defined by law.


----------



## Albaneren

Dont expect to build motorways in the golan heights. It is an occupied zone, and you cant build there.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Golan is a whole lot of nothing. Why would anyone want to build a motorway there?


----------



## TheCat

^^ There are of course highways in the Golan Heights, some of which are of pretty good quality. But in general, you are exactly right - sparse population, very difficult topology - no motorways needed or even feasible. Though there might be some dual carriageways there in the vicinity of some of the towns, I'm not sure.


----------



## Palance

Is the infrastructure on the Golans from the time that it was Syrian, or did Israel build a new infrastructure over there after 1967?


----------



## Verso

I don't think a motorway there is needed, as the border with Syria is closed anyway.


----------



## zvir

*Road 6 Trans israel highway has now 17 km of 3 lanes*

The First stage of upgrading was completed last week, in time for the Jewish new year eve.
This section is 17 km, in the most busiest part.


----------



## TheCat

I mentioned several times that I made lots of road photos on my trip to Israel a few months ago (May 2009), but for various reasons didn't have time to upload them. I will attempt to do that in several installments, as time will allow. Overall I have upwards of 300 photos, but hopefully they won't eat up too much bandwidth. All photos were taken by my cell phone (Nokia N85), so the quality is so-so.

*Nazareth Illit -> Petah Tikva, ~120 km*

*Part 1: A drive inside Nazareth Illit:*

A little approximate map of this part:










































































































































Old street behind a commercial centre, consisting of stores and bakeries:





































Turning onto a one-way street:






























































































































































































Turning left at the roundabout to exit the city via Route 6400 (not numbered in all maps):










_Next: Part 2: Route 6400, Highway 79, Highway 77_


----------



## corredor06

they look very good


----------



## TheCat

*Nazareth Illit -> Petah Tikva, ~120 km*

*Part 2: Route 6400, Highway 79, Highway 77:*

Map of this part:










Turning left at the roundabout onto Route 6400, a relatively new road that allows exiting Nazareth Illit to the west:










Route 6400:




































































































Mash'had Junction roundabout: we continue straight, onto Highway 79:



















Highway 79:









































































The green light was flashing before changing to yellow, and my camera caught it between flashes :



















Junction to Zippori: home to an ancient archaeologic site:






















































































































This sign reads: "National Roads Authority: Merging between Highways 77 and 79. Temporary detour due to the construction of the 'HaMovil' interchange.":





































Funky camera effect :



















Turning left at this junction, onto Highway 77:










Lots of construction on this road:





































The sign reads: "National Roads Authority: Expansion of the road to a dual-carriageway.":






































































































































































































































































Turning right onto Highway 75:










_Next: Part 3: Highway 75, Route 722, Highway 70_


----------



## TheCat

I found a really nice video of a very long drive in the northern parts of Israel (not too far from where I lived). This is one of the best driving videos of Israel I've been able to find on Youtube (except for my own, of course ).

It shows typical rural non-motorway roads in Israel in a very hilly and winding setting.

I highly recommend it to anyone here who is curious about Israel's highways and its northern landscapes.

(For a larger version, click here).


----------



## RoadUser

Nice pics!


----------



## RoadUser

Some pictures from the recently widened section of Road 6. It is approx 20km long:





































Photo credit: User Zvir1 on the Tapuz Infrastructure forum.

The new northern section of Road 6, BTW, is pretty impressive, with some nice bridges and tunnels. I think there have already been pictures posted on the forum.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Are the Carmel tunnels (route 2) already completed?


----------



## RoadUser

ChrisZwolle said:


> Are the Carmel tunnels (route 2) already completed?


Not yet. They seem to be working at a good pace though. It's not scheduled to open till the beginning of 2011.

I think that one of the more intriguing parts of the project is this interchange at one of the entrances to the tunnels. I think I can count five levels.










The Carmel Tunnel website (all in Hebrew) has pictures of this monster being built:


----------



## TheCat

RoadUser said:


> Some pictures from the recently widened section of Road 6. It is approx 20km long:
> 
> ...
> 
> Photo credit: User Zvir1 on the Tapuz Infrastructure forum.
> 
> The new northern section of Road 6, BTW, is pretty impressive, with some nice bridges and tunnels. I think there have already been pictures posted on the forum.


Nice photos! They did this pretty quickly. Just in May of this year I traveled this road in its entirety, and it was 2x2 everywhere, and the northern section was not open. I find the progress of road construction in Israel quite impressive.

I don't think I saw pictures of the new northern section of Road 6, though I might be mistaken. Certainly don't remember tunnels. If you have any such material, please do post .



ChrisZwolle said:


> Are the Carmel tunnels (route 2) already completed?


Like RoadUser said, not yet, but the tunnels themselves (i.e. boring them in the mountain), as far as I know, were completed sometime ago by a Chinese company.


----------



## RoadUser

TheCat said:


> Nice photos! They did this pretty quickly. Just in May of this year I traveled this road in its entirety, and it was 2x2 everywhere, and the northern section was not open. I find the progress of road construction in Israel quite impressive.
> 
> I don't think I saw pictures of the new northern section of Road 6, though I might be mistaken. Certainly don't remember tunnels. If you have any such material, please do post .


Here's one pic, from an earlier page in this very forum:










This is a pic of an interesting section of motorway near Modiin. It is a combined section of Road 1 and Road 6, the two left lanes on each carriageway are Road 6, the two on the right are Road 1. They split at the Daniyel and Ben Shemen Interchanges:










The Road 6 signs to "The North" made me somewhat nostalgic for England, where such signs are common on the M6 etc.

Here is a link to the area on Google Maps:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=tel+aviv&sll=38.061807,23.749716&sspn=0.006023,0.009645&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Tel+Aviv,+Israel&ll=31.93847,34.936609&spn=0.051933,0.077162&t=h&z=14


----------



## TheCat

*New signage reforms in Israel:*

Improving interchange signs by using European-style graphics instead of the word "interchange" in three languages:
(new on the left, old on the right)










Indicating the junction types on signs (I like this one):


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Much better


----------



## christos-greece

The all project of this motorway, the bridges, the tunnels from this model looks great


RoadUser said:


>


----------



## The Knowledgeable

TheCat said:


> *New signage reforms in Israel:*
> 
> Improving interchange signs by using European-style graphics instead of the word "interchange" in three languages


That's great. The next thing they should do is follow Greece's footsteps and render the Arabic script gold, so it will be visually clearer and easier to distinguish the three scripts.


----------



## TheCat

^^ Agreed. I don't really agree with the Hebraisation of all the place names though. They should definitely standardize the spelling of all place names (right now it's a mess and you have different signs using different spelling), but "Jerusalem" should remain "Jerusalem". It simply makes no sense to spell "Yerushalaim", since no one will know what the heck that even means.


----------



## andrelot

Hey, guys, just a question without any intetion to go (that much) off-topic.

Do highway police officers in Israel sepak at least basic English? In other words, If I travel to Israel, rent a car and drive around (without any intetion to go into West Bank, let alone Gaza Strip...), and some highway officer pull me over, could I expect not to be in trouble despite the fact I don't speak Hebrew and that I can barely distinguish some (not all) letters of Hebrew alphabet?

Now, out of curiosity, how do gas station work? Pre-paid, self-service + pay on cashier, or are there someone to fill it up and swipe your card?


----------



## RoadUser

andrelot said:


> Hey, guys, just a question without any intetion to go (that much) off-topic.
> 
> Do highway police officers in Israel sepak at least basic English? In other words, If I travel to Israel, rent a car and drive around (without any intetion to go into West Bank, let alone Gaza Strip...), and some highway officer pull me over, could I expect not to be in trouble despite the fact I don't speak Hebrew and that I can barely distinguish some (not all) letters of Hebrew alphabet?
> 
> Now, out of curiosity, how do gas station work? Pre-paid, self-service + pay on cashier, or are there someone to fill it up and swipe your card?


The first question is kind of hard to answer. I assume the answer is that most police officers can at least say "Evening all", and "You're nicked".

As for petrol stations; they all have self service pumps, and most have full service too (someone filling up for you). The self service is usually paid for by swiping your credit card in the pump itself, but at some stations you pay in the shop after filling up. That way they can try to sell you some chocolates or something else you don't want. Self service, BTW, is slightly cheaper.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I always thought of Israel as a country where the knowledge of English is widespread. Linguistically, Israel is isolated, no other countries uses Hebrew and they are dependent on other countries for trade of course, where English is an important language. 

Something like Denmark, the Netherlands or other small developed countries.


----------



## TheCat

Chris is generally right, English is widely known in Israel, and among the younger generation most people know at least some English. Among those attending university you can expect at least basic fluency, because these people are required to complete English at a high level in high school, and a lot of learning material in university is in English (especially in technical fields).

However, there are still a lot of people in Israel whose English skills leave much to be desired. While English is encountered in some form daily (signs, TV, for example), Hebrew is really the language that's used in all daily activities. Primary education is also in Hebrew (even though English is taught). Arabic is used to a lesser extent among the Arab minority. You can still find a lot of people in Israel who don't really speak English, especially people who tend to drop out of school early. I think the situation is better in the centre of the country (around Tel Aviv).

But to whoever asked the question, I don't think you should encounter problems with police, considering that they should be used to tourists. I wouldn't worry too much (there isn't corruption or anything like that), but to watch your speed because unlike in many countries, police presence in Israel is significant on the roads. In Canada I may drive the whole day without seeing a single cruiser, whereas in Israel in a short trip you're almost guaranteed to come across a few. Plus, there are also things like red light cameras around.

It's not all that bad though - we were able to maintain 130-140 km/h on Highway 6 last May, without having trouble. Might be just that highway though.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Pics:



Urban Legend said:


> Road 99 starts in Kiryat Shmona and goes east to Hermon Mt.





Urban Legend said:


>


 Roads in Beer Sheva In Yom Kipur :



Urban Legend said:


>


----------



## snowman159

TheCat said:


> However, there are still a lot of people in Israel whose English skills leave much to be desired. .....


How useful do you think Yiddish would be when dealing with older people who don't speak English?


----------



## Tepes

Atruxo said:


> So, I ask if israeli government is investing in motorways, roads, etc in syrian lands. It's a waste of money, because later or sooner, will have to return that land.
> The same in the case of palestinians. I think they are happy, because you are building so much on their land, so will have a developed nice country when they get the independence.
> 
> 
> Sorry if I ask some embarrasing questions, but here in Europe we are really worried about these problems.



Speak for yourself. Some of us Europeans think Israel should keep all territories it has won in a war started by others. Syria & Palestine have about as much right to the occupied territories today as Germany has to Kaliningrad/Koenigsberg. And I don't see any Germans firing rockets across the Baltic into Russia either.

As you said yourself, Israel does a much better job regarding infrastructure than all neighboring Arab countries, even though a lot of Israel's economic surplus must be diverted into its army because of the threats posed by its neighbors; why would you want the Palestinian Arabs and those living in the Golan Heights to have the poverty of an Arab regime over the prosperity of the Israeli one?


----------



## RoadUser

Atruxo said:


> I'd like to solve a series of transport-related issues in Israel:
> 
> The highway passes the occupied territories ,West Bank or the Golan Heights, or stand on the green line. If they pass the other hand, is indicated on the signs that you are entering occupied territory or something?
> Who is making plans to decide where the motorways will be built? Does the occupying authority
> consult with PA, Sirian government, or UN?
> Another question concerns the issue of segregated public transport in the territories. Really can not take buses people who are not settlers? It appeared that a story today in which 6 Palestinians stopped because they wanted to get on a bus to settlers. Thanks.


Assuming that you're not just here to try to start an argument, I'll give you the best answer I can:

- There are no major highways in the Golan Heights, so it's irrelevant to argue about it.

- When you enter the West Bank in your car, you go through what looks exactly like a border crossing between two countries. Examples are on Road 443 near Modiin and on Road 1 (I think) near Maaleh Adumim.

- Public transport in the territories is not segregated. However, Palestinians do need authorization to enter Israel (and, in some cases, vice versa). This would undoubtedly remain the case even if Palestine were an independent country, although presumably the actual procedures for obtaining authorization (work permits or whatever) would be different.

I think it would be better to limit discussion on this forum to roads rather than politics. There are plenty of other places to talk about that.


----------



## Atruxo

> Some of us Europeans think Israel should keep all territories it has won in a war* started by others*.


 :nuts:

O.K. You are joking! So UN should disappear. Get back to the stone age. The more power you have the more right you are. :bash:



> Syria & Palestine have about as much right to the occupied territories today as Germany has to Kaliningrad/Koenigsberg. And I don't see any Germans firing rockets across the Baltic into Russia either.


:crazy: Germany hasn't got nuclear ICBM, Russia has. Powerful reason. 
And Israel also is the only nuclear power of the región. This gives you a lot of reason.



> As you said yourself, Israel does a much better job regarding infrastructure than all neighboring Arab countries, even though a lot of Israel's economic surplus must be diverted into its army because of the threats posed by its neighbors; why would you want the Palestinian Arabs and those living in the Golan Heights to have the poverty of an Arab regime over the prosperity of the Israeli one?


I don't know, but people of Golan heights, those that lived ther for centuries, the original people, (they are syrians, do you know?) rejected israeli passport.


Thanks RoadUser, you gave me answers, that's what I asked for.


----------



## D K

Please stop your propaganda and your zionist stuff. It's not the right place. Here we post pics and discuss about roads and highways.


----------



## Tincap

Hey folks, I was watching a little bit of drama tonight on the Ayalon Highway traffic cams. It was actually along the north bound lanes of Highway 1, near the interchange with Highway 461 (Derech Kibuts Galuyot - דרך קיבוץ גלויות).

It appeared to be a single vehicle accident, relatively minor, but eventually the driver was arrested and placed in a police van. The female passenger was quite upset at this, putting up a fight of her own, with the police and emergency crew, so they man-handled her into the back of another police car and drove off. All this play-by-play, with close-ups etc, were courtesy of the operators of the, normally not so interesting, traffic camera number 1, of the Ayalon Highway system ~> http://www.ayalonhw.co.il/camera/camera.asp?perCamera=1 :lol:

Any local news of this incident...which has technically become an international one, since I was watching it live? :banana:

~BG


----------



## devo

> Originally Posted by Atruxo
> ... indicated on the signs that you are entering occupied territory or something?


The BBC Top Gear christmas special from last year (i think) has some footage of the situation at the Jordan/Israeli border. Look for the "Middle East Special" episode. 

Also, I would like to add that the recent happenings in the middle east hopefully will put an end to all unfinised business between the involved countries in the area. Not tomorrow, not next year, but maybe 10 years ahead. And that the discussions regarding anything other than infrastructure is dealt with somewhere else, however interresting they might be.


----------



## Tincap

devo said:


> The BBC Top Gear christmas special from last year (i think) has some footage of the situation at the Jordan/Israeli border. Look for the "Middle East Special" episode.
> 
> Also, I would like to add that the recent happenings in the middle east hopefully will put an end to all unfinised business between the involved countries in the area. Not tomorrow, not next year, but maybe 10 years ahead. And that the discussions regarding anything other than infrastructure is dealt with somewhere else, however interresting they might be.


Unfortunately (for many Syrians), a large chunk of that episode has to be viewed in a different light, than when it was first aired  . Nice segment on (mainly northern) Israel in that one.

~BG


----------



## TheCat

The 2nd stage of Highway 22 in the north (the Krayot Bypass) is now being surfaced. The first segment will open to traffic in about 6 months, and the complete road will be done by the end of the year.

The total length of this section will be about 14 km, and is expected to alleviate traffic congestion through the various Krayot on the way between Haifa and Acre (the Krayot are kind of like suburbs of Haifa).

Project cost: 2 billion NIS (about $530 million)

More information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_22_%28Israel%29

Progress image:
http://img2.timg.co.il/forums/1_158948437.jpg

Path of section:


----------



## TheCat

Google Street View is now available in Haifa, Tel Aviv, and Jerusalem .


----------



## davidsch

If you want to see more about the current Highways and what they connect you should really check out Openstreetmap, as they map the highways/ expressways as soon as a route it published.
It is a lot more detailed that the maps the construction sides provide.

For example the extension north of Tel Aviv of Highway 20:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=32.19543&lon=34.83582&zoom=15&layers=M

Or Highway 9 that supposed to connect Highway 2 south of Hadera to Highway 6.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=32.4205&lon=34.9476&zoom=14&layers=M


If you follow or construction sides and the proposed changes on and beside the expressway 4 north of Tel Aviv you will see that expressway 4 will get a probably Highway classification in the future. No traffic lights supposed to be on expressway 4.

Great work Israel.


----------



## davidsch

Openstreetmap wants to change their street classification for all Israeli roads.
As you can imagine it is not very easy to find a rule for every street.

In Openstreetmap they have 6 road classifications that are important:
motorway, trunk, primary, secondary, tertiary and residential.

As several members of this forum do know a lot of the Israel road system it would be great to hear your feedback.

###############################################################################

First rule for numbered roads: It doesn't count the amount of digits but the color of the sign!























=> *MOTORWAY* (Blue sign)- all freeways - National roads and Inter-City roads. 
Normaly they have one digit (example road 2) or two digits (example road 20). 
As a exception they could have also three digits (example road 431). 
Speed limit is 110 km/h if no sign defines something lower. 

















=> *TRUNK* (Red sign) - all expressways. 
Expressways in Israel could look very much like a freeway. 
Normaly they have two digits in the sign (example road 10). 
Speed limit is 100 km/h if no sign defines something lower. 
To avoid editing wars it always counts the color of the sign. If its blue it counts as freeway. If its red it counts as expressway. 

















=> *PRIMARY* (Green sign) - all regional roads. 
Normaly they have three digits in the sign (example road 412). 
Speed limit is 90 km/h if no sign defines something lower. 

















=> *SECONDARY* (Brown/ Black sign) - all regional roads. 
Normaly they have four digits in the sign (example road 4111). 
Priority over other crossing roads (the other roads have a stop sign)
Speed limit is 80 km/h if no sign defines something lower. 


[Exception per Eric22 request]: very large urban roads that are unnumbered (generally around 1 per 100000 inhabitants). Roads that are more important for routing connections that a normal tertirary road.



*TERTIARY* - all importand (connection-) roads (no colored sign) . 
Priority over other crossing roads (the other roads have a stop sign)
Speed limit is 80 km/h if no sign defines something lower.



*RESIDENTIAL* - residential roads where people live on (no colored sign). 
Lower priority over other crossing tertiary roads
Speed limit is 60 km/h if no sign defines something lower.
In urban there is a general speed limit of 50 km/h


###############################################################################

The original discussion happens here http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=260104#p260104, but as I don't want to refer you into another forum you are welcome to hit the reply button and help us finding a solution here.

Every feedback is very welcome. Specially about the speed limit as the rule is not enough check.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

My main pet peeve about Open Street Map is that motorway-like expressways are not shown properly from the rest of the trunk roads. You have to zoom in very far to see it's a 2x2, grade-separated motorway-like road that often functions like a motorway too. Google Maps does this better, although it doesn't distinguish between motorways and expressways (and in some cases even 2+1 roads). 

Another annoying thing is that OSM only uses the endomyms. While I support this, this is problematic when the place in question has a different writing script, such as Hebrew.


----------



## davidsch

ChrisZwolle said:


> My main pet peeve about Open Street Map is that motorway-like expressways are not shown properly from the rest of the trunk roads.
> 
> You have to zoom in very far to see it's a 2x2, grade-separated motorway-like road that often functions like a motorway too. Google Maps does this better, although it doesn't distinguish between motorways and expressways (and in some cases even 2+1 roads).


I would say that the motorway is the road 6 and a expressway is the northern part road 4 (near Haifa) is showing up very differently. 
Currently all motorways are shown blue and all expressway do look red:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=32.7143&lon=34.9651&zoom=14&layers=M

The main question is: what makes the difference between a motorway and a expressway in your opinion. My suggestion is based on the sign of the street. Meaning a motorway has a blue sign and the expressway a red sign. I'm also expecting a different speed limit depending on this definition.

My suggestion posted would mean that all those ways looking red in the moment would get defined as trunk and get colored in green instead. This way we would have a easier to make a difference of the road classification in Israel.




ChrisZwolle said:


> Another annoying thing is that OSM only uses the endomyms. While I support this, this is problematic when the place in question has a different writing script, such as Hebrew.


I don't agree. It depends very much on the software you are using to find the correct result. Please check out the nominatum search (http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/) that provides you several results no matter how you write it. To find a Herzl street if you search for Hertzl is depending on the street definition. You would need to add Hertzl to every herzl street to have the correct result. This is not easy but just a matter of time and software.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Maps are used for much more than just locating streets, they are also used to check out the area, the general road network and the position of nearby cities. Open Street Map is completely useless for that if you don't read Hebrew / Arab / Cyrillic etc.


----------



## davidsch

ChrisZwolle said:


> Maps are used for much more than just locating streets, they are also used to check out the area, the general road network and the position of nearby cities. Open Street Map is completely useless for that if you don't read Hebrew / Arab / Cyrillic etc.


If you don't read Hebrew you can use one of the services bellow that are showing Latin characters instead of Hebrew.

1. http://toolserver.org/~osm/locale/en.html?zoom=9&lat=31.90086&lon=35.11865&layers=BT
2. http://mapq.st/NauSV1 (only city names)

All the data is Openstreetmap... Its just about the software. 
There are a lot of apps out there for smartphones that also use this functionality.


----------



## TheCat

davidsch said:


> ...
> Every feedback is very welcome. Specially about the speed limit as the rule is not enough check.


Hmm, some of the speed limits listed indeed are questionable, since they seem to be somewhat arbitrary and rely on the classification of the road, which has many exceptions and is as such not very relevant.

Unless something has changed, as far as I know, the following are the default speed limit rules in Israel:

Motorway (blue sign): 110 km/h
Intercity (no physical barrier): 80 km/h
Intercity (physical barrier): 90 km/h
Urban: 50 km/h

The number of digits or colour of the road number don't matter (except in the "blue" case, which is officially the colour of motorway signs). Also, I never heard of a 60 km/h default limit anywhere - if it's urban, then it's 50, otherwise, it's 80.

Everything else, I believe, is not related to any actual rule, although I may be wrong if things changed recently.


----------



## davidsch

What I found out is that the numbers do count as the colors do. With the exception that all roads can be made by the government to motorways (meaning a blue sign). So a 3 digits road could have a green sign till it gets classified as motorway and gets a blue sign. All street definitions I found do have relation to the color. 

Regarding your speed limits:

As a example against your urban speed limit rule please see the following road in Tel Aviv: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?way=121492367

It has a speed limit of even 70.

So the rule that all urban roads have a speed limit of 50 is simply not correct. Even if the signs at the entrance to Israel show it the way you described it.

But it is very interesting where you got the rule with the intercity roads with and without barriers from. We have still no 100 % fixed rule for the speed limit. But it would be of course great to start somewhere and have a definition in Israel Openstreetmap.


----------



## mcarling

What is the status of the southward extension of Highway 6?


----------



## NFZANMNIM




----------



## mcarling

*Transportation Ministry Issues Tender for Highway 6 Extension*

http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=294683

Fair use excerpt:
"The new tender includes the six-kilometer stretch eastwards from Lahavim to Lakiya (section 21). The cost will be NIS 200 million. The new section will extend further southeast from the similar length stretch currently under construction between the Rahat Interchange and the Lahavim Interchange at a cost of NIS 315 million."


----------



## Tincap

*Webcams ~ Ayalon*

I really enjoy this site, especially right now, in particular. Watching some pretty good lightening storm action over Tel-Aviv right now! 

http://www.ayalonhw.co.il/camera/camera.asp?perCamera=14

~BG


----------



## TheCat

I haven't been here for a while, so this is probably not as relevant, but I'd like to respond anyway:



davidsch said:


> ...
> Regarding your speed limits:
> 
> As a example against your urban speed limit rule please see the following road in Tel Aviv: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?way=121492367
> 
> It has a speed limit of even 70.
> 
> So the rule that all urban roads have a speed limit of 50 is simply not correct. Even if the signs at the entrance to Israel show it the way you described it.


I think you are confusing *default* rules with specific speed limits. In Israel, by default, in the absence of other signs, the urban speed limit is always 50 km/h (incidentally it is also the case in most other countries around the world - sometimes 60 km/h). However, a sign can set any other limit (in your example - 70 km/h).



> But it is very interesting where you got the rule with the intercity roads with and without barriers from. We have still no 100 % fixed rule for the speed limit. But it would be of course great to start somewhere and have a definition in Israel Openstreetmap.


Actually, the rules that I described are correct and 100% fixed . You can find them here, at the National Road Safety Authority website (refer to the table at the bottom of the page):
http://rsa.gov.il/mianachnu/peilut/chakikashfita/Pages/mehirut.aspx

Of course, you still cannot rely on the default rules to know the speed limit on every road/street - you have to know what signs are placed there.


----------



## zvir

*israel spped limits increased again!*

The Ministry of Transportation has decided to increase the speed limit on Highway 6, also known as Kvish 6, or by its official name, the Yitzchak Rabin Highway. The new speed limit will be 120 KPH (72 MPH), up 10 kilometers from the present 110 KPH (66 MPH) limit. Speed enforcement protocol generally permits for traveling 10% above the limit, so drivers will be able to drive 130 KPH (78 MPH) under the new limit. The new speed limit signs are expected to be posted in the very near future.

Ministry officials praised the road, calling it among the best in the world, defending the decision by explaining the road permits driving safely at that speed.

Other increases in speed limits include:

1. Jerusalem – Tel Aviv Highway (Hwy 1) from 100 KPH to 110 KPH between Shar Haggai Interchange and Latrun Interchange and between Shemen Interchange and Ganot Interchange.

2. Coast Highway (Hwy 2) from 100 KPH to 110 KPH between Caesarea and Atlit Interchanges.

3. Route 471 from 90 KPH to 110 KPH between Bar Ilan and Nachshonim Interchanges.

4. Route 5 from 90 KPH to 100 KPH between Kfar HaYarok and Rosh Ha’ayin.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Finally. 120 km/h is still nothing extraordinary for a regular designed motorway.


----------



## TheCat

Good to hear. Too bad in Canada we are still stuck with 100 km/h on all freeways - something that will probably never change.


----------



## mcarling

120 is too slow for Highway 6.


----------



## zvir

*you can actually do 130......*

you can actually do 130......


mcarling said:


> 120 is too slow for Highway 6.


----------



## mcarling

zvir said:


> you can actually do 130......


... can do and have done. Way too slow.

I am glad though of the small step in the right direction.


----------



## TheCat

Most of Israel is now covered by Google Street View! This includes almost all towns and cities, and most highways. Pretty cool


----------



## crimio

How many km of motorways/freeways are in Israel?
From some sources they are 230 km, but on Google Maps about 410 km.
Have a nice day!


----------



## TheCat

^^ According to the following link (Hebrew):
http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%9B%D7%91%D7%99%D7%A9_%D7%9E%D7%94%D7%99%D7%A8

The total length of officially-designated motorways in Israel is approximately 300 km.

I used the list at the end of that page, which specifies each motorway section as a segment of each of the listed roads between pairs of specific interchanges. The information on Highway 22 is a little unclear, but the information is +/- 10 km.

However, keep in mind that there is a sizeable network of highways in Israel that are essentially motorways, but are not classified as such by the government due to outdated standards of construction (e.g. grades/turns that are too tight, narrow shoulders, etc.). That might account for part of the larger figure that you indicated (400+ km), since several highways (e.g. Highway 2) may be marked as motorways throughout most of their length, even though only certain sections are officially recognized as motorways by the government.

As far as I know, several of the existing lower-standard sections are currently being upgraded, along with several other roads that are being built/converted to motorways (e.g. Highways 7, 40, and 77).

Finally, there are many expressways in Israel (especially in the north of the country) that were recently (in the last decade) upgraded to 2x2 with a physical separation median and wide shoulders (and a speed limit of 90-100 km/h), but are not motorways because they have a mix of traffic lights and interchanges. As the traffic lights are slowly removed in favour of interchanges, some of these roads might also become motorways in the future, although other design characteristics (e.g. grades/curves) might prevent such a classification.

Regardless of the official classification, however, there has been a continuous trend in Israel in the last 1-2 decades of converting many 2-lane intercity roads to 2x2 expressways.


----------



## crimio

TheCat said:


> ^^ According to the following link (Hebrew):
> http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/כביש_מהיר
> 
> The total length of officially-designated motorways in Israel is approximately 300 km.
> 
> I used the list at the end of that page, which specifies each motorway section as a segment of each of the listed roads between pairs of specific interchanges. The information on Highway 22 is a little unclear, but the information is +/- 10 km.
> 
> However, keep in mind that there is a sizeable network of highways in Israel that are essentially motorways, but are not classified as such by the government due to outdated standards of construction (e.g. grades/turns that are too tight, narrow shoulders, etc.). That might account for part of the larger figure that you indicated (400+ km), since several highways (e.g. Highway 2) may be marked as motorways throughout most of their length, even though only certain sections are officially recognized as motorways by the government.
> 
> As far as I know, several of the existing lower-standard sections are currently being upgraded, along with several other roads that are being built/converted to motorways (e.g. Highways 7, 40, and 77).
> 
> Finally, there are many expressways in Israel (especially in the north of the country) that were recently (in the last decade) upgraded to 2x2 with a physical separation median and wide shoulders (and a speed limit of 90-100 km/h), but are not motorways because they have a mix of traffic lights and interchanges. As the traffic lights are slowly removed in favour of interchanges, some of these roads might also become motorways in the future, although other design characteristics (e.g. grades/curves) might prevent such a classification.
> 
> Regardless of the official classification, however, there has been a continuous trend in Israel in the last 1-2 decades of converting many 2-lane intercity roads to 2x2 expressways.


Thanks a lot!


----------



## mcarling

I wouldn't worry too much about what is or is not officially classified as a motorway. As TheCat explained, Israel has many good 2x2 roads which fall short of official classification.

Currently, Israel has a good road-building programme going. Highway 6 (Israel's only toll road) is one of the best-operated toll roads in the world. Here in Europe, only Hungary comes close to Israel in efficiency of tolling (through electronic vignettes). There are many construction works ongoing now to relieve bottlenecks (for example, between Tel Aviv and Haifa).


----------



## areal51

Hi! I'll go in two months to Israel (I'll drive with rental car to Tel Aviv, Haifa, Tiberias, Jerusalem, Dead Sea, Eilat...) 
Where can I find the roads taxes?
Can someone post a new road map ...or give me a link with a good map? (exclude interactive - google maps, openstreet, viamichelin...)
Thank you!


----------



## mcarling

areal51 said:


> Hi! I'll go in two months to Israel (I'll drive with rental car to Tel Aviv, Haifa, Tiberias, Jerusalem, Dead Sea, Eilat...)
> Where can I find the roads taxes?


Only Hwy 6 has tolls and they are collected electronically by optically scanned the car's number plate. Billing will be handled by your rental car company.


----------



## mcarling

I propose a new road diverging from Hwy 77 at Eshkol Reservoir and going east northeast to intersect Hwy 65 just south of Eilabun. It would cut about 5 km off the distance between the Center and the Northeast and also relieve currently congested parts of Hwys 65 and 77. It would need to wind a bit at the eastern end because of the elevation change. The current distance via Hwys 65 and 77 to the 65/806 junction from Eshkol Reservoir is 21 km. The great circle distance is 15 km. Via the proposed new road, the same journey would be about 16 km.


----------



## zvir

mcarling said:


> I propose a new road diverging from Hwy 77 at Eshkol Reservoir and going east northeast to intersect Hwy 65 just south of Eilabun. It would cut about 5 km off the distance between the Center and the Northeast and also relieve currently congested parts of Hwys 65 and 77. It would need to wind a bit at the eastern end because of the elevation change. The current distance via Hwys 65 and 77 to the 65/806 junction from Eshkol Reservoir is 21 km. The great circle distance is 15 km. Via the proposed new road, the same journey would be about 16 km.


this route was proposed long ago as the Highway 6 east horn. 
the reslution for now is to upgrade the existing roads fron HWY 6 to rosh pina (mainly rd 77) and to upgrade it to expressway standards.


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## bogdymol

Kampflamm said:


> As does Israel for remembrance day.


..


----------



## mcarling

The Golani Interchange has opened! Traffic on route 77 can now pass freely through the grade-separated interchange. Traffic on route 65 is still subject to traffic lights, but they generally stay green except when vehicles are following routes that rarely make sense.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*speed limits*

Israel increases the maximum speed limit on motorways from 110 to 120 km/h.

http://he.mot.gov.il/index.php?opti...dover-2014-03-23&catid=56:dover-c-1&Itemid=65

http://www.timesofisrael.com/speed-limit-hiked-120-kph-on-major-highways/


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## mcarling

Google Earth has new imagery dated 5 June 2015 showing the southward extension of Highway 6 bypassing Beit Kama and Lehavim.


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## mcarling

New sections of Hwy 6 have opened in the south near Beit Kama and Lahavim.
http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-southern-stretch-of-cross-israel-highway-opens-1001066851


----------



## yishbarr

Do any of you have special road signs for your city's authority area roads? Because in Modiin, we have these unique nice rectangle thick road signs, and I haven't seen something like that anywhere else. Only the flat curved corner signs that are used on the highways.


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## mcarling

Google Earth has new imagery dated 24 July 2015 showing the reconstruction (upgrade to dual carriageway) of Hwy 65 from the Golani Interchange north to Hwy 85 and of Hwy 85 from Hwy 65 east toward Hwy 90. It looks like construction will be completed sometime in 2016.


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## zvir

*opened : the road 85 section*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQUp-wvy03s


----------



## zvir

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQUp-wvy03s


----------



## zvir

*opened : the road 85 section*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQUp-wvy03s


----------



## mcarling

Another new extension of Hwy 6 to southward has opened from Lahavim to Lakiya.

http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-new-negev-section-of-road-6-opens-thursday-night-1001117529


----------



## mcarling

The new Tzalmon Interchange connecting Hwy 65 to 807 is now open. This is part of the ongoing work to upgrade Hwy 65 from 1x2 to 2x2 all the way from the Golani Interchange north to Hwy 85. Some of the works are visible in Google Earth.

http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-new-galilee-interchange-opens-1001117002


----------



## ChrisZwolle

mcarling said:


> Another new extension of Hwy 6 to southward has opened from Lahavim to Lakiya.
> 
> http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-new-negev-section-of-road-6-opens-thursday-night-1001117529


It's interesting how Highway 6 bulges to the east near Be'er Sheva, instead of following existing Highway 40, which is a fairly high-standard bypass of the city. At first hand a western route around Be'er Sheva looks like it makes more sense, providing this city with bypasses on either side, instead of two bypasses to the east. It could also provide better access to Hatzerim Airbase. But maybe they wanted to improve access to eastern communities such as Arad and Dimona, and Nevatim Airbase. 

It makes you wonder if they ever want to extend Highway 6 all the way down to Eilat. It's still fairly far from Be'er Sheva (200 kilometers).


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## mcarling

^^
Highway planning in Israel has to consider the possibility that forces may need to be shifted during wartime. This was an issue in both 1967 and 1973.

I really doubt that Hwy 6 would be extended all the way to Eilat, but the future lasts a long time. All the discussion about improving transport links to Eilat are about a possible rail link, which would mostly serve freight.


----------



## zvir

*rational*



ChrisZwolle said:


> It's interesting how Highway 6 bulges to the east near Be'er Sheva, instead of following existing Highway 40, which is a fairly high-standard bypass of the city. At first hand a western route around Be'er Sheva looks like it makes more sense, providing this city with bypasses on either side, instead of two bypasses to the east. It could also provide better access to Hatzerim Airbase. But maybe they wanted to improve access to eastern communities such as Arad and Dimona, and Nevatim Airbase.
> 
> It makes you wonder if they ever want to extend Highway 6 all the way down to Eilat. It's still fairly far from Be'er Sheva (200 kilometers).


The rational is that traffic to: Arad, Eilat (via road 90 ) Dimmona and the new army bases is by far larger that west bypass of BS.


----------



## zvir

*new section of road 6*



zvir said:


> The rational is that traffic to: Arad, Eilat (via road 90 ) Dimmona and the new army bases is by far larger that west bypass of BS.


----------



## zvir

*new section of road 6*

https://youtu.be/6T8tjnEefWI


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ 






quote my post to see how to format a Youtube video


----------



## mcarling

*Hwy 9 has Opened*

Highway 9 is now open, providing a new east-west connection between the north-south roads Hwy 4 near Hadera and Hwy 6 near Maor.

http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-new-section-of-road-9-opens-1001126882

Most of the route is visible under construction in a 13 January 2013 Google Earth image.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

http://hamodia.com/2016/05/31/motza-bridge-near-yerushalayim-opens/

A new bridge bypassing a dangerous curve on Highway 1 in western Jerusalem has opened to traffic. It carries westbound traffic. The eastbound bridge will open in November. It's part of a major project to upgrade this segment of Highway 1 to higher standards.


----------



## FelixMadero

I miss more pics!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 65*

A new interchange opened in northern Israel along Highway 65 at Kadarim. It's part of a project to upgrade 20 kilometers of Highway 65 (between Highway 77 & 85) to a dual carriageway with interchanges. So far, 6 out of 8 planned interchanges have been completed.

http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-galilee-interchange-opens-at-kadarim-1001134026


----------



## mcarling

*Avalon Highway in Tel Aviv to be Covered by a Park*

http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-plan-approved-to-cover-ayalon-highway-1001139393

Fair use excerpt:

"The goal of the project, which might reach a 240 dunam plot (about 60 acres) is to create new, public, open spaces based on existing space. The famous Ayalon Highway, which at present splits Tel Aviv into two parts and generates air pollution and noise at the center of the city, will become a hub of recreational activity, with bike tracks, walking trails, green areas and cafes, right over the Ayalon Highway."

240 dunams is 24 hectares.


----------



## mcarling

*6 Kilometers of Highway 1 have been Widened*

http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-major-stretch-of-jerusalem-tel-aviv-highway-opened-1001140466

Fair use excerpt:

"The widening of the notorious six kilometer section of the Tel Aviv - Jerusalem highway between Sha'ar Hagai and Shoresh has now been completed.

...


The route of the new stretch has straightened out some of the sharper curves and steeper gradients and also includes an ecological bridge, so that animals can cross the highway."


----------



## mcarling

*Massad-Ravid Interchange Open*

http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-new-interchange-inaugurated-in-northern-israel-1001143774

Fair use excerpt:

"The Ministry of Transport and the Netivei Israel Transport Infrastructure Company announced this week that the new Massad-Ravid Interchange has been opened for traffic. The interchange is expected to significantly ease traffic congestion along [Highway 65] and enable drivers to merge into Highway 65 safely and quickly."


----------



## Lankosher

Hi All,

I took some pictures of Israeli roads during my May holidays. Pictures were taken in various places and are presented in random order. I hope you will enjoy some of them 

1








2








3








4








5 Mitzpe Ramon








6








7








8








9








10








11








12








13








14 Egypt ahead








15








16








17








18








20









to be continued...


----------



## Lankosher

21








22








23








24








25








26








27








28 Golan Heights

















29








30








31








32 - Jordan ahead









Thank you


----------



## devo

Her life?


----------



## sotonsi

^^ generic masculine wasn't out of fashion until very recently and this looks like it has been thrown through some primitive translation software from 5-10 years ago.


----------



## zvir

http://EY_k0kxv7Is&featurenew road 65/85 (actually the north east part of road 6)


----------



## zvir

as always-complicated interface to upload youtube films. I give up


----------



## EasySeven

^^

Maybe I can help 






Click quote on my post to see how to phrase it.


----------



## zvir

*thanks*


----------



## Ynhockey

Highway 1 upgrade, kindly posted by FelixMadero. Video by Dudy Cohen:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The new Highway 1 west of Jerusalem:


----------



## zvir

*this is not a new part*

this was opened few years ago.
regards


----------



## Nikolaj

Will the Highway 1 get Motorway status (blue signs) after completion of the major upgrade from Jerusalem to Latrun, or will it remain with green signs?


----------



## NFZANMNIM

igorlan said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I took some pictures of Israeli roads during my May holidays. Pictures were taken in various places and are presented in random order. I hope you will enjoy some of them
> 16
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> to be continued...


I wonder if while everything on signs have been translated to Arabic, not translating Soreq Nuclear Centre was done intentionally


----------



## devo

NFZANMNIM said:


> I wonder if while everything on signs have been translated to Arabic, not translating Soreq Nuclear Centre was done intentionally


I would say that it is quite obvious that there is no room on the sign.


----------



## miumiuwonwon

*Road Trips in Israel and Palestine (Part One) - Hwy 6 North*

I spent almost a month in Israel last November. Followings are pictures taken while driving. Enjoy!

Highway 6, or the Cross-Israel Highway, is a 193km highway (including the 76km of the southern extensions) along the eastern part of the country from south of Beer sheva to the Galilee in the north. It diverts traffic to the central region of Israel in order to reduce vehicle density and pollution in the greater Tel Aviv region and thus is one the busiest Israeli highways.


We're now on Hwy 1. Jerusalem is far behind us. Shortly before us is the interchange of Hwys 1 and 6.






Keep going on Hwy 1, you'll directly get to the Ben Gurion Airport and Tel Aviv. By turning onto Hwy 6, you'll by-pass Tel Aviv. 
 

There are a total of three toll roads currently in Israel. The longest of its kind is Hwy 6. The toll road sign is shown at the entrance. 








After the tunnel, the road is widened with four lanes in each direction.










Hwy 6 uses a system of cameras and transponders to toll vehicles automatically. There are no toll booths, allowing it to operate as a normal freeway with interchanges. A radio antenna detects when a car with a transponder has entered and exited the highway. Even without a transponder in the car, there are numerous cameras taking pictures of the license plate and charging the owner of the plate with the fee. Hwy 6 is based on the technology of the Hwy 407 in Ontario, Canada.






















By me.


----------



## miumiuwonwon

*Road Trips in Israel and Palestine (Part Two) - Hwy 1 Fast Lane*

The Highway 1 Fast lane is a 13 km stretch of road running from just before the Ben Gurion Airport to the Kibbutz Galuyot Exit in Tel Aviv. Like Hwy 6, the system is automatic and records your license plate number to send you your bill every month.


We're again on the toll-free section of Hwy 1, from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv.












You may choose to stay on the toll-free lanes or to "go faster" at your own expense - This can be costly if you are using a rental car!




Ben Gurion Airport in the background.






















Tel Aviv skyline from afar.


End of Hwy 1 - the Kibbutz Galuyot Exit.




By me.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ I always find it interesting how Israel signs their roads with three different alphabets (!)
I don't think any other country does that.


----------



## miumiuwonwon

*Road Trips in Israel and Palestine (Part Three) - Highway 1 near Jerusalem*

The new Highway 1 upgrade project, which is one of the most important transportation projects to be undertaken over the past years in Israel, includes the construction of bridges, tunnels and interchanges over a 16 kilometer segment on the road to Jerusalem.

As part of the plan, a third lane will be added in each direction, the road shoulders will be widened and the inclines and curves will be moderated. 

*Westbound*, direction Tel Aviv.

We start on the new Motza Bridge. Instead of the dangerous road section at the Motza turn, two 800-meter-long parallel bridges - each with three lanes - have been built over the Motza valley.






The highway constitutes a national traffic artery and therefore two lanes will always remain open in each direction during the entire construction period. 






Because the highway as well passes through a sensitive nature reserve, so a 70-meter-wide eco-bridge has been built to allow animals to cross the barrier safely.








*Eastbound*, direction Jerusalem.














The old Harel bridge, which was built decades ago, has been demolished and in its place two 700-meter-long tunnels are drilled under the Harel mountain ridge. 
 



We are now again on the Motza Bridge.


By me.


----------



## miumiuwonwon

*Road Trips in Israel and Palestine (Part Four) - The Wall*

Jerusalem and Bethlehem are just a few kilometers apart. However, access between the two is limited by the fact that Bethlehem is under Palestinian control. For this reason, taking a local bus is the cheapest and most popular way for visitors to travel to the city of Jesus’s birth.

Our bus runs from the Arabic Bus Station at the Damacus Gate in East Jerusalem via Beit Jala to Bethlehem.




Totally different traffic situations in East Jerusalem. They are surprisingly quite close to each other.




The monstrous wall on Hwy 60, the West Bank’s main Jerusalem-Hebron highway. 








An Israeli military checkpoint stands on the road connecting the two locations. Passports must be carried at all times.






The Hwy 60 viaduct at Beit Jala seen from above.


As one approaches the border crossing, he/she won't miss the huge warning sign for Israeli citizens entering into the West Bank.


By me.


----------



## miumiuwonwon

*Road Trips in Israel and Palestine (Part Five) - The Coastal Highway*

Highway 2 connects the Greater Tel Aviv Area and the city of Haifa in the north. Since it runs along Israel's entire coastal plain of the Mediterranean Sea, so the highway is also called The Coastal Highway. 

Hwy 2 is one of the busiest highways in the country, and drivers experience frequent traffic congestion between Hadera and Tel Aviv during rush hours. The northern sections are also congested at times, especially during weekends and holidays, when many Israelis travel north for vacation.


We're leaving Caesarea for Jerusalem via Tel Aviv.






The Mediterranean Sea is just ahead of us.










Herzliyya is known for its robust start-up and entrepreneurial culture. It's also one of Israel's most affluent neighborhoods and home to numerous Embassies, as well as prominent Israeli business people.




We're about to turn left onto Hwy 5 ...








... and after a few kilometers about to turn right onto Hwy 4.




Petah Tikva and Bene Beraq both belong to the Greater Tel Aviv Area, which has a population of more than 3.7 million people and houses about 45% of Israel's whole population. The latter one is one of the poorest and most densely populated cities in Israel, and sixth most densely populated city in the world.












We're approaching the Ben Shemen Interchange, one of the largest and most complex interchanges in the country connecting Hwy 1, Hwy 6, Routes 443 and 444, as well as several local roads.














Hwy 1 leads us all the way to Jerusalem. 


By me.


----------



## Ynhockey

Highway 6 northern extension construction video by Gal Ben David:

(U/C section on OSM: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/32.7422/35.1400)


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## Kalamai

miumiuwonwon said:


> Road Trips in Israel and Palestine...


Ho did you manage to take shots, so that normally straight roads look curved and hilly?


----------



## Kalamai

Ynhockey said:


> Netivei Israel just posted an update on the 531–Ayalon left turn. The opening is on August 8:


Opened.


----------



## Uppsala

miumiuwonwon said:


>



I think the bllue roads at the map are motorways. What is red roads? Dual carriage ways?


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## ChrisZwolle

Main roads with a 1- or 2-digit road number. Many are dual carriageways.


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## italystf

Interesting how that map shows the West Bank as part of Israel. It's like Serbian maps including Kosovo or post-WWII W.German maps including the DDR or even terriories annexed by Poland and USSR.


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## ChrisZwolle

Israel actually manages the roads in some areas of the West Bank, unlike Gaza, where Israel manages no roads since 2006.


----------



## belerophon

italystf said:


> Interesting how that map shows the West Bank as part of Israel. It's like Serbian maps including Kosovo or post-WWII W.German maps including the DDR or even terriories annexed by Poland and USSR.


As far as i can see, the map shows clear those regions managed by israel or by palestine authorities according to the Oslo treaties. 

According to the treaties there are A-Regions (bigger cities) where the palestine authorities are responsible for civil administration AND security; the B-Regions (mostly villages) which are under civil administration of palestine authorities, but under security control of Israel. And there are C-Regions, which are under control of Israel both in civil and security administration. 

So the map shows correct in red regions of "A", green regions of "B" and does not show regions of "C" 

So the map does show what is fact. Maps of germany, which did not show GDR or other did show a propaganda. This map shows the truth, no matter if s.o. likes it. I guess for the road administration it seems to be useful to show facts


----------



## italystf

^^ Yes, for practical purposes Area C is part of Israel, although the international community doesn't recognize it. It's like Russian Crimea.


----------



## belerophon

italystf said:


> ^^ Yes, for practical purposes Area C is part of Israel, although the international community doesn't recognize it. It's like Russian Crimea.


Well, well. There might be a very slight difference i think. Crimea was an undeclared waqr, started by Russia, which occupied it in a tricky way. 

As far as i remember the wars in palestine were not started by israel. The Jewish authorities accepted the Division plan of UNO giving them 55% of the territory. The Palestine Authorities did not accept it and started their little war until all the neighbors joined. It seemed clear that Israel could not win, so why accepting treaties? Afterwards Israel controlled 77% of the Territory... and a lot of arab leaders lost their seats or even heads. 

The war of 1956 is always said to be an agression of France, GB and Isreal. As far as i remeber the UN regulations see an economic embargo (blockade of canals, trains or roads as an act of war. Despite of that it was a cold war thing, which went wrong, afterwards Egyt asked USSR for help, what should have been hindered. On the israeli-egypt border there were years full of "incidents" since 1948.

The war of 1967 was the same kind of thing, the israelian side started the fire after egypt sent UN-Forces home, blocked the Strait of Tiran and mobilized its army. Again it was a miscalculation. Israel urged a peace treaty, giving back the golan to syria, and sinai to egypt, which was rejected.

In 1973 finally it should have been the great hour of arab nations. By attacking israel on its highest feast (Yom Kippur, Reconcilation Day (no irony)), where no radio and no TV -station was working, it was hard for the israelians to mobolize their army. The country is quite small, so it could have gotten a disaster. But there was no need to ship the tanks to the border, they drove them out of the camps directly, without putting on uniforms. This time Damascus and Amman could have been captured. 

Finally 1979 egypt was the first neighbour to make peace, 1994 jordan was the second. 

It is necesarry to see, that the arab palestinian people and the refugees especially were often used as political pressure, they were not treated as brethren, almost never. Jorda was the first and only country giving an citizenship to them, beeing half of the population there now (what Yassir Arafat used for trying to kill the king Hussein, afterwards the love was over)

My grandfather flew from Silesia after germany lost the war, so what? Am i an refugee? Palestinians are not guilty as a people for what their leaders did, but they decided wring and payed the price. 

A better comparison is, that Ukraine would have attacked Russia over decades openly or hidden, but lost territory each time. 

I recent years UN turned against Israel in favor of the Petrodollars of arabian "democracies". The human rights councel condemned Israel 61 times in its periodes from 2006-2015, more than all other countries worldwide combined, including north corea, syria (one might remember the civial war and things like poison gas), and so on. The UN is just crap right now, because it finances school books showing a great palestine and every propaganda. Their will be never any useful palestine state, no going back of the "refugees" and any other stupid claim. Thats it. UN works with majorities, but no matter if 99 out of people say, taht something is true or is right it won't change.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ you are right but to waste time arguing about that issue on internet is only costing you 

Speaking of Jordan, I don't know why this country doesn't actually have the whole Westbank or even the Gaza (in French "Cisjordanie") either. After '48 Jordan had the whole Westbank. Only in 1967 Israel won and controlled the area and it became a "Palestine" again after Jordan abandoned it in 1988.

I don't really understand that issue fully but I think must be related to the Palestinian fighting in/against Jordan (Black September etc etc) and they just wanted away...


----------



## masala

belerophon said:


> Well, well. There might be a very slight difference i think. Crimea was an undeclared waqr, started by Russia, which occupied it in a tricky way.
> ............


Also, slight difference is that people of Crimea voted to join Russia.


----------



## Kozhedub

^^
In thie case it's important who counts the votes 😉


----------



## Robi_damian

italystf said:


> Gaza was never part of Jordan (it doesn't even border it). Gaza was part of Egypt before the Israeli occupation in 1967. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, but it still controls its border, sea, and airspace (basically 1 milion people are trapped in a giant lager with Hamas wahabite terrorists inside and Israeli snipers outside, with barely food and medicine).


Gaza is indeed in a state of deep misery, but it is hardly only the fault of Israel and/or Hamas (actually, it is not really possible for Israel to isolate it _ceter paribus_ as Gaza has a border with a third country - Egypt). Anyway, a big issues is the fact that the birthrate in Gaza is insane despite the fairly decent level of education among the population, and the area is already overcrowded as it is. In 1970 it had only some 340.000 people. Now it has 1.8 million. If it had Egypt's birthrate (already very high), it would have only 1.000.000 people today and would be a lot more manageable (as most Gazans are unemployed or underemployed, a smaller population would have not hurt the GDP all that much).

As for the maps, Israeli road maps bought in Israel show the reality as it is. Which IMO is how road maps should always be designed, regardless of politics. E.g. a map including Crimea should show it as part of Russia, with possibly a note warning users on the potential legal risks of entering the region without Ukrainian consent. Maps should reflect the practical experience of travel, not political pipe dreams. The fact that places such as Transnistria, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, etc. are not on maps is stupid IMHO.


----------



## italystf

^^ Egypt also do its contribution in isolating Gaza. The only border crossing between them is almost always closed. Egypt is a secular state that has diplomatic relationships with Israel (although it has a brutal dictatorship), and doesn't want to have ties with islamist Gaza. But Gazan population, including those who don't support the brutal islamic dictatorship of Hamas, is suffering the most because of the isolation and the inability to travel, work and get medical care.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ it is true. But what better solution can there be to this situation, just to minimize killing and death?
Even for, e.g. medical issues, the Hamas refuses to let aid enter :lol:


----------



## rheintram

How about we move back on topic (as interesting as all of this is)? ;-) The map above is btw. not an official map.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Highway 16*

A PPP contract has been signed with Italian consortium Impresa-Pizzarotti to build a 5 kilometer new freeway in Jerusalem, called the "Ariel Sharon Highway", or Highway 16. It will link Highways 1 & 50 on the west side of Jerusalem and contains two tunnels. Construction is planned to start in 2019 with a completion in 2022-2023.

>> https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-franchise-signed-for-new-entry-road-to-jerusalem-1001257998










>> https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/כביש_16_(ירושלים)


----------



## Ynhockey

Road 3 is a road going from Ashkelon to Latrun (near Jerusalem). A large part of it only has one lane in each direction. Some of it is being upgraded. Here is a video by Olitzky Infrastructures:

Full route (picture credit: Atefrat @ Wikimedia Commons, OpenStreetMap):


----------



## Ynhockey

Road 79 is a road going between Nazareth and the Krayot (northern suburbs of Haifa). It is undergoing a major upgrade between Nazareth and HaMovil Interchange. Video courtesy of Olitzky Infrastructures:


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## ChrisZwolle

Another northern extension of Highway 6 opens to traffic on Friday: https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-road-6-northern-section-to-kiryat-ata-opens-fri-1001279961

It is a 16 km segment from Yokneam to Kiryat Ata. It's already indicated as open to traffic on Open Street Map.


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## Woonsocket54

Has Rte 200 (Ramla bypass), on the western side of Ramla, connecting Rte 431 to Rte 44, opened?


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## Ynhockey

> Has Rte 200 (Ramla bypass), on the western side of Ramla, connecting Rte 431 to Rte 44, opened?


Not yet. I think stage 1 is Q3 2020.


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## Ynhockey

Highway 79 expansion, an update by Olitzki Infrastructures:






Map of the entire highway below. The current expansion is from just west of Tzippori to Nazareth (Reineh).

(Image credit: Atefrat @ Wikimedia Commons, CC-BY-SA 3.0)


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## Ynhockey

August 2020 update of Highway 79 expansion, also by Olitzki Infrastructures:


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## VITORIA MAN

Road in the desert, Israel by Andrey Sulitskiy, en Flickr


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## Ynhockey

Shabatashtiyot is a popular infrastructure Facebook group in Israel run by Boaz Levy.

Two interesting road updates he posted lately:

1. Ashdod North Interchange is taking shape:
(it shows this: OpenStreetMap)
Credit: Sergey Manankov














Facebook







www.facebook.com





2. Renders for Jerusalem Road 16, now U/C:
(it shows this: OpenStreetMap)
Credit: Avner Drory Architects























Log into Facebook


Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.




www.facebook.com


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## [atomic]

*Parking lot collapses into sinkhole at Jerusalem's Shaare Zedek*
It looks like it is right between the two tunnel bores of Highway 16 which is under construction.









WATCH: Parking lot collapses into sinkhole at Jerusalem's Shaare Zedek


Security footage shows three cars falling straight into the sinkhole. It is still unknown if there were people inside.




www.jpost.com





location:








Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.com












OpenStreetMap


OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.




www.openstreetmap.org





btw did we lose a few Posts? The last one is 8 Months old.


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## rakcancer

Why there is such a low resolution for Google satellite images in that area?


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## Downroot

rakcancer said:


> Why there is such a low resolution for Google satellite images in that area?


All of Israel is annoyingly like that. both low quality and 5 years old.


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## EmoriAz96

Towerdefence said:


> All of Israel is annoyingly like that. both low quality and 5 years old.


I believe it is due to the security situation in the country. It is ironic however that street views are relatively recent and show juicy details like some car registration plates and even a couple of house numbers


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## rakcancer

I would understand some areas are blurred for security reason, but whole country?


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## NFZANMNIM

rakcancer said:


> I would understand some areas are blurred for security reason, but whole country?


It's because of this 1990s US law, called "Kyl-Bingaman Amendment ". The law states that no US based sattelite imagery company can provide commercial imagery of Israel at resolution that's better quality than any other available non-American option. 

BBC did a whole article on the topic too
BBC Link


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## Downroot

NFZANMNIM said:


> It's because of this 1990s US law, called "Kyl-Bingaman Amendment ". The law states that no US based sattelite imagery company can provide commercial imagery of Israel at resolution that's better quality than any other available non-American option.
> 
> BBC did a whole article on the topic too
> BBC Link


that used to be the reason. But as the article states, Kyl-Bingman was dropped a year ago, so from that point it became Google's fault.


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## NFZANMNIM

yeah well, i think you were the one mentioning it, most of the google imagery from the region are like 5 years old

BUT ... Bing Maps, despite stating that its sattelite imagery are from "Maxar 2021", is still reducing the resolution everyhwere, so idk why...


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## Downroot

NFZANMNIM said:


> yeah well, i think you were the one mentioning it, most of the google imagery from the region are like 5 years old
> 
> BUT ... Bing Maps, despite stating that its sattelite imagery are from "Maxar 2021", is still reducing the resolution everyhwere, so idk why...


The maps being 5 years old is part of the problem, everywhere else I checked the images are far more recent. I don't know why Google is prioritizing other places over Israel where it would make a much bigger difference.


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## rakcancer

I am not an expert here but I don't think that is Google or any other company fault. It is simply politics.
I found this interesting article:








Israel-Gaza: Why is the region blurry on Google Maps?


High-resolution images of Israel and Gaza are available, so why not via public mapping tools?



www.bbc.com


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## Downroot

rakcancer said:


> I am not an expert here but I don't think that is Google or any other company fault. It is simply politics.
> I found this interesting article:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel-Gaza: Why is the region blurry on Google Maps?
> 
> 
> High-resolution images of Israel and Gaza are available, so why not via public mapping tools?
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com


That is the same article NFZANMNIM posted, which mentions that the law was abolished. The fact that Google maps has been updated in other places over the last year but Israel hasn't been since 2016 is Google's fault.


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## Ynhockey

Some recent road updates from Shabbattashtiyot, an Israeli infrastructure blog on FB:

*Road 444 – Rosh HaAyin South Interchange* opened:
Location: OpenStreetMap








Credit: Netivei Israel (national road company) / Source

*Highway 60* "tunnel road" section partly opened:
Location: OpenStreetMap









Credit: Ein HaNetz (Eagle Eye) Aerial Photography / Source

*Highway 1 – French Hill Interchange *– tunnel construction completed.
Location: OpenStreetMap










Credit: Ein HaNetz Aerial Photography / Source

*Road 38 – Giv'at Sharett Interchange* – start of construction
Location: OpenStreetMap


















Credit: Netivei Israel / Source


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## ChrisZwolle

Picture of the day on Wikipedia, a hugely detailed topographic map of 1942-1958:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Survey_of_Palestine_1942-1958_1-100,000_sheet_index_georef.png



(beware, the original file is 423 MB!)

Can anyone who reads Hebrew confirm that solid red lines are paved / asphalted roads? (not: all-weather roads or similar).


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## Downroot

ChrisZwolle said:


> Picture of the day on Wikipedia, a hugely detailed topographic map of 1942-1958:
> 
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Survey_of_Palestine_1942-1958_1-100,000_sheet_index_georef.png
> 
> 
> 
> (beware, the original file is 423 MB!)
> 
> Can anyone who reads Hebrew confirm that solid red lines are paved / asphalted roads? (not: all-weather roads or similar).


The key says that solid red means type A road and the alternating red and white means type B road without explaining further. Then for the white it says it's a "way" and that the solid lines are paved and the double dashed ones are not (and single dashed are walking paths). This makes me think that anything with red should be paved.


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