# 2022 Winter Olympics Games Bids



## adeaide (Sep 16, 2008)




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## -Corey- (Jul 8, 2005)

Id love to see the games in Santiago


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## Alphaville (Nov 28, 2007)

KiwiRob said:


> Northern Hemisphere folks didn't appear to have a problem watching the Sydney summer games in winter, so I very much doubt they will have a problem adjusting to watching a winter games in summer. Sport is sport, if people are interested in it they will watch it even if it's out of season.


It's not actually a matter of people in the NH watching Winter events during their summer, its more to do with athlete scheduling. 

I think over 90% of Winter Olympians reside in the Northern Hemisphere (and then, a majority of that from either North America or Europe). Having a Winter Olympics staged in any month other than February (its much tighter than the June to October margin the Summer Olympics allow) is going to be a logistical nightmare. Also money plays a big role. The USA is a big contributor to the finding of the IOC through television sponsorship (and the Winter Olympics has in recent years drawn a larger audience than their Summer counterparts in the US) and the NFL season isn't going to work around the Winter Olympics.

Sadly I doubt SH cities that a VERY capable of hosting the Winter Olympics (Christchurch and Santiago the most so) are not going to host due to this reason, unless the IOC makes some big decisions, which they won't.


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

The NFL season is from Sep-Jan so that doesn't matter. Also the athletes do train more in the northern winter but many of these (northern) winter athletes train year round and some even train and compete in the Southern Hemisphere in the northern summer months so I don't think the adjustments would be too great. They could easily train and compete into June or July without much ill effects. 

In fact the biggest issue is the scheduling for northern TV audiences. I just really think there is good reason to believe that northerners don't care to tune into skiing or skating when the sun and water are calling them outside. In the summer northerners generally want to act as if winter doesn't exist and I think most any ratings of winter sports coverage in the past during the summer months would almost without exception bare that out.

I wish it wasn't so because I think it would be really great if places like Chile or New Zealand were pulled into the Olympic fold.


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## KiwiRob (Aug 2, 2009)

Basically all the reasons put forward for not having a southern hemisphere games are bollocks, they are all easily resolved, it can be done and it should be done.


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## Lost Cosmonaut (Feb 10, 2005)

adeaide said:


>


Go Santiago!


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## Alphaville (Nov 28, 2007)

KiwiRob said:


> Basically all the reasons put forward for not having a southern hemisphere games are bollocks, they are all easily resolved, it can be done and it should be done.


It's extremely unlikely it'll ever happen. There are some pretty good reasons for it over in Gamesbids.com


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

KiwiRob said:


> Basically all the reasons put forward for not having a southern hemisphere games are bollocks, they are all easily resolved, it can be done and it should be done.


Then why hasn't it been done? Even the one time a World Figure Skating Championships set for Brisbane (in I forget now which year)...fell apart at the last minute; and got moved to Nice, France. That would've been the FIRST time a major Winter sport would've had its annual crown jewel event in a southern hemisphere setting, yet what happened? If an indoor event like that couldn't even happen in its usual March slot, what more the whole ball of wax? hno:

Nope. You can decree it all you like, but it's *not going* to happen for the simple reason, it's season-dependent both in the actual locale and on the opposite hemisphere which *pays for that extravaganza*.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

^^ Interesting, it was due to Australia's failure to provide adequate broadcast services (i.e televise the event) rather than proposed venue, the Brisbane Entertainment Centre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_World_Figure_Skating_Championships


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Lord David said:


> ^^ Interesting, it was due to Australia's failure to provide adequate broadcast services (i.e televise the event) rather than proposed venue, the Brisbane Entertainment Centre.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_World_Figure_Skating_Championships


Yeah, I do recall it was something to do with the TV contract--which means that there wasn't enough local interest to warrant the expense. But whichever it was...that perhaps was one opportunity to show the north that Winter sport televised on a global basis from a southern setting could be viable for the northern markets. But *it fell apart* which says a lot ...and the ISU I am sure isn't quite that eager to attempt another fiasco like that.


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## PAO13 (Sep 23, 2009)

*OSLO* easily for the win. As IOC member Heiberg said earlier this year; IOC would welcome a bid from Norway and Oslo with open arms. Nobody else can create the same atmosphere around the Winter Olympics, as nobody else loves skis and winter as much as Norwegians do.

Example.


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## Alphaville (Nov 28, 2007)

PAO13 said:


> *OSLO* easily for the win. As IOC member Heiberg said earlier this year; IOC would welcome a bid from Norway and Oslo with open arms. Nobody else can create the same atmosphere around the Winter Olympics, as nobody else loves skis and winter as much as Norwegians do.
> 
> Example.


meh. Norway just had them in 1994. And previously in 1952. Lets go somewhere new.


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## PAO13 (Sep 23, 2009)

^Thankfully the IOC don't have the same thoughts. "Somewhere new" is just other words for empty venues and low interests in the sports.


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## Alphaville (Nov 28, 2007)

PAO13 said:


> ^Thankfully the IOC don't have the same thoughts. "Somewhere new" is just other words for empty venues and low interests in the sports.


lol - care to explain this logic further?


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

-Corey- said:


> Id love to see the games in Santiago


I'd love to see it there as well. Finland's my other choice.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

isaidso said:


> Finland's my other choice.


Finland does not have the 800m drop mountain. Their last bid of Tampere failed.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

PAO13 said:


> *OSLO* easily for the win. As IOC member Heiberg said earlier this year; IOC would welcome a bid from Norway and Oslo with open arms. Nobody else can create the same atmosphere around the Winter Olympics, as nobody else loves skis and winter as much as Norwegians do.


That's Heiberg. Rogge would've "welcomed bids from the USA and South Africa" for 2020. But that doesn't mean it's going to happen nor did it happen. hno: 

Rogge also "welcomed bids" from Lake Placid for the 2016 Winter YOGs. No dice. Lake Placid and the USOC didn't care to indulge him. 

U're over-reading those "_welcomed"_ bids. They say that whenever they feel there's going to be a shortage of bids. Doesn't mean the representatives from Malawi or Paraguay or Malaysia really care where the WOGs land. The Winter bidding is more of a crap shoot because 1/3rd of the IOC membership comes from non-Winter countries so therefore that is the larger, more unpredictable bloc of votes that can determine the next host. 

And Norway, for its small size and inflated influence, is done for its share of Winter hosting...and that's why the 2016 Winter YOGs will probably get awarded to Lillehammer to satisfy this 'Scandinavian' thing for awhile--plus nobody else wanted them. I think that's what Heiberg meant: the IOC welcomed an "Oslo" bid for Winter YOG 2016 because no one else was coming around.


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## andydie (Oct 18, 2007)

2022 most likey will be European Wintergames again. 2010 was America, 2014 Russia and 2018 Asia, so its Europe´s turn again in 2022. I really hope Munich will bid again as they had a really good presentation and concept for their games.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> Finland does not have the 800m drop mountain. Their last bid of Tampere failed.


You mean Helsinki, 2006.

If Finland does end up building it's own mountain of 800 meter drop, then perhaps it could host on it's own, rather than relying on Lillehammer, Norway, which was the site of the longer downhill and technical skiing events and the sliding track.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Alphaville said:


> meh. Norway just had them in 1994. And previously in 1952. Lets go somewhere new.


If were talking Nordic, it should be Sweden naturally, if only Finland had the capable slopes, but with "Terra-forming" then perhaps we could see a Finnish proposal in the next few coming Olympics.


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## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

Im hoping Munich will give it another try again


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

^^ Of course they will. Since Berlin is not bidding for 2020 (nor any other German city for that matter), it leaves open to another Munich bid for 2022.

Repeat bidders might be getting stale now, but Munich does have some things going for it.

The bid will be mostly the same as the 2018 bid, therefore over 3/4 of the work is done. All you need is a different look for the Applicant book and Candidate books. As such, the bid will be heavily marketed at the fact that this is celebrating 50 years since the 1972 Summer Olympics, held in Munich.

Any new developments in the city from now and then should be taken into account.

Should they fail, then it's Berlin 2024. An interesting concept is should say Salzburg decide to bid for 2022 after their break in 2018. An interesting competition of bids where Salzburg might not be able to secure the Sliding venue in Germany, over Munich. An agreement may be made to both bids, but perhaps the Austrians might need alternative plans for a sliding track.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Lord David said:


> ^ but perhaps the Austrians might need alternative plans for a sliding track.



Move the border during those 2 weeks.


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## Alphaville (Nov 28, 2007)

Lord David said:


> Should they fail, then it's Berlin 2024. An interesting concept is should say Salzburg decide to bid for 2022 after their break in 2018. An interesting competition of bids where Salzburg might not be able to secure the Sliding venue in Germany, over Munich. An agreement may be made to both bids, but perhaps the Austrians might need alternative plans for a sliding track.


I have strong feeling the Olympics will never go back to Berlin. The city is so different to Munich in that it has a wild, anti-establishment streak that I don't think suits the Olympics. I think a Winter Olympics in Munich is better suited to a modern Germany.

Also Munich has the wealth, Berlin is poor (but sexy..)


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

I think Berlin is capable of hosting (the only city for another Summer Olympics really).

A lot of new venues have been built since the 2000 bid which would assist them greatly, such as the main arena, minor arena and velodrome.

Berlin Olympic Stadium was upgraded for the 2006 World Cup and would be presented as an existing venue that requires no improvements.

A major football specific rectangular stadium in the city could serve as a key Olympic project (if not done prior).

The creation of one sole mega airport will be more suitable than 2000's 3 airport plan.

A lot has happened since 2000, I think Berlin can easily pull it off should they bid. The key problem is marketing, no point marketing for reunification if the Olympics won't lie on a anniversary year, they'd have to play the sustainability and sports card.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Germany should go for Berlin. Forget Munich...it was a BLOODY Olympics there. Best forgotten!!


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## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

What about Frankfurt, Stuttgart or Hamburg?


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## Alphaville (Nov 28, 2007)

Knitemplar said:


> Germany should go for Berlin. Forget Munich...it was a BLOODY Olympics there. Best forgotten!!


Uh, and Berlins wasn't representative of something far more devastating? 

Another Berlin Olympics would have to be very careful about how it celebrated itself. Probably one of the only Olympic hosts that couldn't "look back and smile" and previous Games held there (like Los Angeles, London, Paris, etc..)

I think Munich hosting again is far more compelling. It would be the first city to host both a Summer and Winter Games, its wealthier than Berlin, and going back to there may be good for Munich to allow the city another go - the events of 1972 was not the fault of the Germans. 1936 was. 

Also, Berlin is too cool for the Olympics.


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## Alphaville (Nov 28, 2007)

swifty78 said:


> What about Frankfurt, Stuttgart or Hamburg?


Stuttgart sucks. I spent a day there. It's the Albury-Wodonga of Germany.


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## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

LOL


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## Skyland (Jul 3, 2005)

Neither Austria nor Germany should plan for Olympics right now. First we should reduce our enormous public deficits on the federal, state and community level. Work first to play!

In Europe countries like Poland (Warsaw Summer or Zakopane Winter Olympics), Switzerland (Geneva Winter Olympics), Sweden (Stockholm Summer Olympics or elsewhere Winter Olympics), Denmark (Copenhagen Summer Olympics) or Turkey (Istanbul Summer Olympics, Konya Winter Olympics) should instead host the Olympics. They deserve it more.

Outside Europe, countries like India, Indonesia, Morocco or Chile (Winter Olympics) should host the Olympics. We really have other problems right now.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Vienna! Vienna should bid again for an upcoming Olympics http://lorddavid04.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d1nq29m


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Alphaville said:


> Uh, and Berlins wasn't representative of something far more devastating?


But uhmmm, wasn't the Nazi movement born in the beer halls of Munich?? 



> It would be the first city to host both a Summer and Winter Games, its wealthier than Berlin,


Uhmmm...not so. The Japanese city of Karuizawa is TECHNICALLY the first city in history to host both Summer (Equestrian venue, 1964) and Winter (Curling, 1998) Olympic events!! (OK, it was NOT the anchor city...but still it was part of the overall Olympic Games at the time.) So Munich should NOT be disingenuous about it.


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## PAO13 (Sep 23, 2009)

> *Everyone wants the Olympic Games in Oslo in 2022*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Source: vg.no, translated with google translate.


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## Ervin2 (Nov 7, 2009)

**** off PAO, nobody cares.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Oslo's not going to happen. That's why Winter YOG 2016 was given to Lillehammer. SO there will be no immediate Oslo WOG anytime soon.


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## Kernowboy71 (Sep 13, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> Oslo's not going to happen. That's why Winter YOG 2016 was given to Lillehammer. SO there will be no immediate Oslo WOG anytime soon.


You are WRONG

The WYOG 2016 was NOT given to Lillehammer - the fact is that Lillehammer was the only bidder for the games after both Lake Placid and Sofia dropped out to focus on 2020.

If Lillehammer had not agreed to be the host then the games would have been cancelled.

Oslo has an extremely high chance of being in the mix and ultimate hosts.

1) The games have a strong chance of being held in 'traditional' Europe.
2) The games have not been held in Scandinavia since 1994, they were last held in the Alps in 2006.
3) In the USOC go after the 2024 Summer Games they won't back a 2022 American bid
4) The Swiss have issues with public expenditure which require referendums, which is why Bern dropped out of the 2010 race.

Munich if they bid for 2022 will be a very tough contender. If Oslo move their skiing events from Lillehammer back to Norefjell, they could well be unbeatable, as everything else is within the city limits.

If you consider the Munich bid - the bobsliegh track at Scbonau am Konigsee is 152km distant and Garmish is 90km away

For Oslo Lillehammer is 180km away, though they could build a new track on the old snowbanked course they used in 1952, which is on the Metro and within city limits, whilst Norefjell is 135km away and has a 1010km drop.

With better international links now, Oslo would be a safe bet, a guaranteed successful bid after two more riskier games and with very little need for additional investment.

Politically everyone loves the Norwegians so they will also get votes as the first inoffensive option.


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## Kernowboy71 (Sep 13, 2009)

PAO13 said:


> Source: vg.no, translated with google translate.


Excellent post 

But it should be clarified that EVERYONE means all of the appropriate Norwegian sports bodies have agreed that Oslo be the candidate.


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

Why must Oslo have the skiing events outside of their immediate area, in Lillehammer?


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Oh, kernowboy...also here from GamesBids. Oslo, go slow...u're NOT going anywhere.


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## adeaide (Sep 16, 2008)

New Zealand











USA












Norway


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## adeaide (Sep 16, 2008)

*Winter Olympic Games History*


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## WesTexas (Aug 20, 2011)

adeaide said:


> New Zealand
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm all for New Zealand, but it would be cool to see it in ALASKA!


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## kmen92 (Jun 8, 2011)

And Oslo (70 years since Oslo 1952)











Video


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## Oslo2022 (Nov 7, 2011)

*Oslo 2022*









*After 70 years the Olympic Winter Games will return to Oslo in 2022! *

_A page promoting a potential Oslo bid for the 24. Olympic Winter Games in 2022. Venues include: Holmenkollen, Tryvann/ Oslo Winter park, Norefjell, Lillehammer, Kvitfjell, Hunderfossen Bobsleigh course, Jordal Amfi, Snarøyarena Curling, Lørenhallen, Furuset Forum and Lillomarka Arena. [/B] 












































_


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## Looker (May 7, 2010)

:redx::redx: ..


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Anchorage would be nice, better than Reno even.

Although the city could use a new major arena and perhaps a proper major multi-purpose stadium, it simply couldn't justify now the hosting of the Olympics, even if many venues were temporary or with logical post Olympic use.

Also having A Sliding Track and Ski Jump in Whistler BC, Canada does not help either.

I think they're now simply a little too small for the games. But who knows?


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Lord David said:


> Anchorage would be nice, better than Reno even.


How do you know? Have you even been to either city? 

#1 - Anchorage is NOT interested nor is the USOC. 

#2 - Same region already as Vancouver - the NW corner of the continent. 

#3 - As proven in its previous runs, it is too far from the 48 states.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

^^ Hey, I did state that going for an Olympics now would be out of the question, even if it would be nice.

As for the previous runs, being too far from the 48 states meant nothing. Anchorage simply faced better bids from other cities.


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## KiwiRob (Aug 2, 2009)

adeaide said:


>


After looking at the map it really is about time the Winter Games went South.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

^^ It's essentially the seasons. The season differences won't make it work.

Also there's the technical side.

Santiago may have the slope and city factor, but NZ should rightfully host first.


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## dande (Jan 28, 2005)

I would like to see Sweden get it in 2022, it´s long over due. But first they have to apply.


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## Dan Caumo (Jul 2, 2007)

It would be nice the first winter games in south hemisphere with Santiago, Chile.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

KiwiRob said:


> After looking at the map it really is about time the Winter Games went South.


Something on paper is *TOTALLY, totally out of synch* with real-life conditions on the ground...and the whole financing scheme that pays for a Winter Games. 

Ain't gonna happen no matter how much you pine for it. The sheer mass of who make up the Winter Games live in the North and it is their schedule that the WOGs go by. 5 countries in the So. Hemisphere ain't going to upset 60-70 countries in the north.


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## adeaide (Sep 16, 2008)

*Portillo resort in Chile*


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## PAO13 (Sep 23, 2009)

Oslo2022 said:


>


I'm looking forward to this :banana::banana::banana::banana:

*OSLO 2022*


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## Hansadyret (Jun 22, 2008)

I want to see winter sportnations like Germany or Sweden get it now. It's time for one of them i think. It would be a great atmosphere in those countries.

Oslo would be great at some point with easy access to everything. You could just take the subway to the skiing areas. But as a norwegian i just think 2022 would be to soon for Norway to host again and many people are against it at this point for various reasons.


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## dj4life (Oct 22, 2009)

I would love it to be held in Sweden!


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## buldoci (Jun 9, 2008)

What about Doha, Qatar? Middle East also should host Winter games!


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

buldoci said:


> What about Doha, Qatar? Middle East also should host Winter games!


Well, those robes and burkhas would look really flowing in the ski jump and biathlon events!! And the lady figure skaters would be totally hidden underneath their chadors!!


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## Kernowboy71 (Sep 13, 2009)

The Winter Olympics won't be held in the Southern Hemisphere.

Unlike athletics which is a year around sport, winter sports are far more reason specific.

98% of the Winter Olympians will be from the Northern Hemisphere.

In terms of facilities, everything would need to be build whether it be in New Zealand or Chile, from scratch in sports where each country has no history - ski jumping, ice hockey, bobsleigh, risking massive white elephants in the aftermath. More importantly New Zealand doesn't have a 800m vertical drop which in the same case of Quebec City stops any bid dead.

No hill with an 800m vertical drop

No Winter Olympics


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## Kernowboy71 (Sep 13, 2009)

Graubunden 2022 could be the contender to beat

The Swiss have settled on a contender it seems and with it all being in a winter sports focused canton, it could be suggested that the referendum should pass.

Whilst there has been a thought of some ice events in Zurich as well as Davos, I would have thought that the canton capital Chur, with an exisiting ice hockey team could be sufficient.

Chur is 58km from Davos and 69km from St Moritz
St Moritz is 66km from Davos.

So all venues within 40-45miles of each other.

Existing facilities would need to be updated but all are in an area where there would be a guaranteed legacy use.

It could be argued that they have too many options for alpine events with both St Moritz and Davos/Klosters able to host.

St Moritz has, of course, the famous Cresta Run for skeleton events as well as the only naturally frozen bobsleigh run. The local icehockey team EHC St Moritz's arena could be used for Curling. There would need to be new skijumping facilities but this stadium could be used for opening cand closing ceremonies.

Chur has the Hallenstadion Arena holding 6,545 people as a secondary Ice Hockey site.
It is also a major rail transportation hub.

Davos would be the centre for IceHockey. The Valiant arena (7,080) or replacement would see regular usage by EHC Davos, a National League 1 team, whilst the famous speed skating track alongside it would be covered in a similar manner to what they've been doing in Germany. A secondary stadium for Figure Skating could be reduced in size after the games for EHC Ibex Klosters.

Overall, it would be a games in a traditional winter sports country, with guaranteed excellent weather conditions and post games regular usage of all facilities.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Kernowboy71 said:


> The Winter Olympics won't be held in the Southern Hemisphere.
> 
> Unlike athletics which is a year around sport, winter sports are far more reason specific.
> 
> ...



New Zealand does have the 800 meter drop at Wanaka. Unlike Quebec, there's no stopping them from artificially heightening an existing slope, since no major ones run towards a river. Big investment would be had, but it is possible.

If artificial heightening and terraforming techniques greatly advance in the near future, Australia could theoretically host, with Canberra and the nearby Perisher Valley ski resorts.

As for sport specific facilities, outside of indoor arenas (which should be mixed temporary, permanent and post Olympic converted use), the Ski Jumps, Sliding Centre and Biathlon Course should easily serve as training facilities for Northern Hemisphere nations post Olympics as well as regular world cups and championships.

Let's compare some potential places:

*Santiago, Chile*
Pros: anchor city, capital of Chile, near ski resorts, multiple ski resorts of over 800m vertical, some existing venues, good transport infrastructure, time favorable to US audiences. 
Cons: seasonal difference with Northern Hemisphere.

*Queenstown, New Zealand*
Pros: near some of NZ's best ski resorts, 1 somewhat nearby (50'sh km) ski resort in Wanaka of 800m drop.
Cons: limited physical area for development, limited transport infrastructure, should be anchored with a major city, seasonal difference with Northern Hemisphere.

*Christchurch, New Zealand*
Pros: anchor city, some existing venues, good transport infrastructure.
Cons: not near any ski resort of 800m drop (though could be developed near Mt Hutt), seasonal difference with Northern Hemisphere.

*Canberra, Australia*
Pros: anchor city, some existing venues, good transportation infrastructure.
Cons: no ski resort in Australia meets the minimum 800m drop (though one could be developed), seasonal difference with Northern Hemisphere, Canberra itself sees limited snow, therefore most if not all snow events would have to be based near the ski resorts.

The main problem is the seasonal differences, but unless someone from here bids, then we'll never know what a Southern Hemisphere Winter Olympics might be like (on paper at least).


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## Oslo2022 (Nov 7, 2011)




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## Леонид (Jan 11, 2008)

Oslo2022 said:


>


Did you make that video?? if so what program did you use?


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Леонид;85953135 said:


> if so what program did you use?


Kat'ndpeyst.


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## Oslo2022 (Nov 7, 2011)

Knitemplar said:


> Kat'ndpeyst.


No, I made it in iPhoto and iMovie


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## corredor06 (Oct 13, 2008)

Would be cool to see games in South America Santiago and Ushuai and Bariloche in Argentina would be good bids.


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## KiwiRob (Aug 2, 2009)

Kernowboy71 said:


> More importantly New Zealand doesn't have a 800m vertical drop which in the same case of Quebec City stops any bid dead.
> 
> No hill with an 800m vertical drop
> 
> No Winter Olympics


There are many resorts which are more than capable of having 800m of vertical drop, Mt Hutt, Porter Heights, Turoa, Trebble Cone, to name a few, all they need is access; Mt Hutt does have a full down hill course, access is via snow cat, for an Olympics lifts would of course be built.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

^^ NZ currently has one mountain with an 800 m vertical drop at Treble Cone.

Considering that mountains like Mt Hutt do not end at a river, it shouldn't be too difficult to either top the mountain to increase vertical or dig lower. At any such project, digging to increase the vertical will surely use such excavated rock to top the mountain being dug.


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

Forget it, the Winter Olympics will never be held in the Southern Hemisphere. Even as long as there is a seasonal difference with the Northern Hemisphere.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

^^ The thing is we'll never know until some city in the Southern Hemisphere has the guts to bid.

I'm sure the IOC will allow them through (or heck face great criticism) then it's up to the vote on the IOC session.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Lord David said:


> ^^ The thing is we'll never know until some city in the Southern Hemisphere has the guts to bid.
> 
> I'm sure the IOC will allow them through (or heck face great criticism) then it's up to the vote on the IOC session.


Except they're probably NOT foolish enough to want to throw $30-40 million away...knowing it's all but doomed anyway.


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## KiwiRob (Aug 2, 2009)

There is no real reason why it would be doomed, isn't one of the objects behind an Olympic games is to promote sport and aid in the development of sport in the country in which the games are being hosted, leaving a legacy for the host nation. A winter games would be awesome for the development of winter sports in NZ (and to some degree Australia).


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

KiwiRob said:


> There is no real reason why it would be doomed, isn't one of the objects behind an Olympic games is to promote sport and aid in the development of sport in the country in which the games are being hosted, leaving a legacy for the host nation. A winter games would be awesome for the development of winter sports in NZ (and to some degree Australia).


In a perfectly balanced world, yes. But as already explained 2 u...in the real world where sponsors will have to pay for this thing, it just WON'T happen with the WOGs. Do you have Alzheimer's?


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## KiwiRob (Aug 2, 2009)

You haven't explained anything at all, just a load of rubbish that wouldn't really be an issue at all.

When you løook at the sponsors for 2014 I can't see why any of them apart from the Russian ones would have a problem with a Southern Hemisphere games:

Panasonic
Omega
G.E. 
Volkswagen
Samsung
Coca Cola
Procter & Gamble

It's all about getting brand exposure, none of the 2014 sponsors are linked specifically with winter sport.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Knitemplar said:


> For once I'll agree and back up Lord David. The big problem are the sponsors of the USA, Europe and Japan.
> 
> Summer BBQ, surfboards and swimming pool products ARE NOT a good complement to skiing, curling and biathlon. The networks make good money with all the winter-related stuff (the Tylenols, cold medicines, ski manufacturers, scarves, flannel booties, winter movies, etc., etc.,) that pay for the Winter Games telecasts. The ads complement the content very well. You are NOT going to get those with a southern Winter Games in September or October when fall stuff is being promoted.
> 
> Remember, there are like 70 WOG-active countries in the northern hemisphere with about 4 billion people whose calendars are geared to a February-WOG. There are like what? 6 or 7 southern hemisphere countries with maybe a collective population of about 300 million that are somewhat active in the WOGs. 4 billion consumers v. 300 million? Where do you think advertisers would put their money on?


Uhmmm...how about this?


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

KiwiRob said:


> You haven't explained anything at all, just a load of rubbish that wouldn't really be an issue at all.
> 
> When you løook at the sponsors for 2014 I can't see why any of them apart from the Russian ones would have a problem with a Southern Hemisphere games:
> 
> ...


But the markets AND the audiences are in the North at an overhelmingly 9 or 10-1 for every southern consumer. U just choose to be blind.


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## KiwiRob (Aug 2, 2009)

And what difference dose that make, the products sold by the companies who are the prime sponsors for 2014 don't sell summer or winter specific products, sport is sport the consumer will watch winter sports in summer just like they watch summer sports in winter when the summer games go south. You just don't get it, people will watch all kinds of sports, it doesn't matter if it's in or out of season.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

KiwiRob said:


> You just don't get it, people will watch all kinds of sports, it doesn't matter if it's in or out of season.


Oh really? THen how come there hasn't been a SINGLE viable southern hemisphere bid for the WOGs? The OTHER marquee winter event which might have proved viable otherwise for the northern calendar in a SOUTHERN setting, the World Figure Skating Championships set for Brisbane in either 1999 or 2001 -- the FIRST TIME that marquee event and the biggest component of any Winter Games, was granted to a southern setting, was botched by the Australian TV contract and it had to be moved to France. 

_"People will watch all kind of sports...regardless of season." _

Yes, but for something as expensive (airtime-wise) as a Winter Olympics, you don't understand the fine-tuning that goes with the buying of the high-cost airtime.

But....dream...all you like. It's been pointed out to you the herculean obstacles a southern WOG would face. It's not as simplistic as you think it is. But if you say it often enough, then you'll get to believe it. La..la...la.


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## KiwiRob (Aug 2, 2009)

You still haven't come up with anythihng valid, all obsticals can be fixed, and as for the figure skating being botched they're Aussies so you shouldn't expect much


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

^^ The fact that the 2000 World Figure Skating Championships had to be moved from Brisbane to Nice was not simply because of TV contracts, it had to do with the willingness of the host nation to actually broadcast the event in full.

Foreign TV companies utilize facilities, services and get their feed from the host broadcaster's cameras. Australia not willing to adequately broadcast the event locally was a core reason as to why the event had to be moved.

For a Winter Olympics, broadcast rights and assurances will be secured (promised at bid). After all it is a high profile event, an International Broadcasting Center will be created or secured. A local broadcaster will air the entire event in full (with perhaps Pay TV filling the void).

The reason there hasn't been a bid? Well naturally it's lack of experience and infrastructure. But, with more and more investment into Winter Sports, perhaps we can see a bid in the future. The closest musings to a real bid (other than speculation for an NZ bid in 2014 and 2018) would be Australia's bid to host the 1956 Winter Olympics (with the Summer Games held in Melbourne, believing the right to host the Winter edition too as it was done in the past), back when the event was smaller in scale and less technical about vertical drops etc.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

KiwiRob said:


> You still haven't come up with anythihng valid, all obsticals can be fixed, and as for the figure skating being botched they're Aussies so you shouldn't expect much


So let's say Auckland bid for the World Figure Skating Championships (or other similar indoor ice based major event), using Vector Arena, but no national broadcaster was willing to show the whole event in it's entirety, then, wouldn't that be a similar example to Brisbane?

Or the alternative, no venue in Auckland willing to serve as a Media Center or no secured accommodation for athletes and officials. Same thing.

It may have been foolish for Brisbane to bid for such a thing in the first place, but it's the organizers' fault for not getting any of our national channels to be willing to broadcast the event.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Lord David said:


> It may have been foolish for Brisbane to bid for such a thing in the first place, but it's the organizers' fault for not getting any of our national channels to be willing to broadcast the event.


I'm sure they tried. Except probably the economics weren't there. Even in a capitalistic society like Oz, the market will decide. So carrying something like a Figure Skating World Champs was JUST NOT enticing enough for advertisers to buy air-time. And NO channel wanted to take the hit for it. So even for Australia, if it's NOT season-appropriate, then there are NO takers. 

So if the SH insists on a WOG in September (when it's your spring...that still will NOT be the right time for the North when the schoolyear is just starting and that will be the focus in the North...not a Winter Olympic Games broadcast without snow. So what good is the 1st Winter Games in the South if there is NO viewership in the BIGGER, major markets?? 

The equation has to be valid and make sense.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

KiwiRob said:


> ...You still haven't come up with anythihng valid, all obsticals can be fixed...


Uh-huh. Even a cash-rich nation like Doha can't BUY a Winter Games.

But OK, keep dreaming and good luck. 

BTW, you mean 'ob_stacles_,"...like tentacles and testicles.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

I have no objections to a winter Olympics going to New Zealand if they can prove that it's viable. The best strategy is to start holding major winter sporting events there. Host some WC ski races, a biathlon event, land the World Figure Skating Championships, try and land a major speed skating event, etc.

New Zealand can't go from desire to bidding for the WOG; one has to go through the necessary initial steps. Secure these events first, build infrastructure bit by bit, prove that these winter sports can be successfully held in New Zealand, and then go for the big prize: the Winter Olympics.

I'm under no illusions about the place of winter sports in this part of the world, but the WOG is a very very big deal whether people realize it or not. When New Zealanders realize the mammoth size of the global television audience for the WOG, they'll realize what a big stage it is. They'll get behind it and do New Zealand proud.

I'd be a little worried about the New Zealand hockey team though. You'd get obliterated.


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## Oslo2022 (Nov 7, 2011)

Valle Hovin skating Oval: Presentation of sketches for a new oval tonight 17:00 at Valle Hovin. 

Get there:

Metro (T-bane): Line 1,2,3 or 4 to Helsfyr then walk to Valle Hovin. 

Here is a map.


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## flierfy (Mar 4, 2008)

isaidso said:


> I have no objections to a winter Olympics going to New Zealand if they can prove that it's viable. The best strategy is to start holding major winter sporting events there. Host some WC ski races, a biathlon event, land the World Figure Skating Championships, try and land a major speed skating event, etc.


New Zealand faces the obstacle of distance. They are virtually on the opposite end of the world from Europe where most winter sport athletes are from. Holding World Cup races there will be highly controversial. Even if NZ can convince the boards the athletes would probably have a different opinion. Travelling around the world for just one or two races is a nuisance from a sporting point of view. Neither is the almost unpopulated country of NZ commercially particular lucrative.

And when exactly do you think there would be enough snow for skiing? Would it be possible in October or April, the month adjoining the season of winter sports?


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

isaidso said:


> I'd be a little worried about the New Zealand hockey team though. You'd get obliterated.


No different to Sarajevo 1984 or Nagano 1998. Except of course it would be the Men's and Women's sides obliterated, perhaps at a slightly grander scale.


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## Oslo2022 (Nov 7, 2011)

*Oslo*

The new Valle Hovin skating Oval (12 000 seats). Sketches by Multiconsult and Link Architects. 




























And we are the host of the World Snowboarding Championships, Oslo 2012.


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## PAO13 (Sep 23, 2009)

^That looks good!


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## KiwiRob (Aug 2, 2009)

Lord David said:


> So let's say Auckland bid for the World Figure Skating Championships (or other similar indoor ice based major event), using Vector Arena, but no national broadcaster was willing to show the whole event in it's entirety, then, wouldn't that be a similar example to Brisbane?
> 
> Or the alternative, no venue in Auckland willing to serve as a Media Center or no secured accommodation for athletes and officials. Same thing.
> 
> It may have been foolish for Brisbane to bid for such a thing in the first place, but it's the organizers' fault for not getting any of our national channels to be willing to broadcast the event.


Have you been living in a cave, NZ has just held the Rugby World Cup, a far larger event than a figure skating world championships, it was successful, so I see know reason why a smaller event like figure skating couldn't be held in NZ.


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## KiwiRob (Aug 2, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> Uh-huh. Even a cash-rich nation like Doha can't BUY a Winter Games.
> 
> But OK, keep dreaming and good luck.
> 
> BTW, you mean 'ob_stacles_,"...like tentacles and testicles.


No snow in Doha, but I'm sure if they spent billions and built an indoor mountain with an 800m drop it would be looked at seriously.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

KiwiRob said:


> No snow in Doha, but I'm sure if they spent billions and built an indoor mountain with an 800m drop it would be looked at seriously.


Sure. I guess they could start with the rubble of the excess 2022 stadia and pile up from there. And oh yeah, only if they skied down the synthetic slope in flowing Arab robes!! :lol: :lol:


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## T74 (Jun 17, 2010)

Lord David said:


> So let's say Auckland bid for the World Figure Skating Championships (or other similar indoor ice based major event), using Vector Arena, but no national broadcaster was willing to show the whole event in it's entirety, then, wouldn't that be a similar example to Brisbane?
> 
> Or the alternative, no venue in Auckland willing to serve as a Media Center or no secured accommodation for athletes and officials. Same thing.
> 
> It may have been foolish for Brisbane to bid for such a thing in the first place, but it's the organizers' fault for not getting any of our national channels to be willing to broadcast the event.


I don't know if this is related, but we have had a massive upheaval in TV in Australia recently.

1) Two of the main stations are financially struggling, and are imposing cut backs.

2) The FTA 24hr sports channel (One) has been changed. Would have been a likely candidate to screen any events, but was not getting enough views. Murdoch recently bought it, and killed its sports only focus. Still shows a lot of sport, but not as much as before.

3) The pay TV provider Foxtel (coincidently part owned by Murdoch) has been forced to pay a massive increase in what it pays for Australian Rules Football rights, and is expected to be made to do similar for Rugby League. Foxtel would have been a prime candidate for any broadcast, but with these increased out goings would be unlikely to want to pay for a broadcast which will generate minimal interest in Australia.

4) the govt owned ABC would also be a candidate, but we are in an phrase of govt budget cutbacks, and with little interest from the punters, the ABC would have most likely want to use it limited budget on more viable projects.

Agree, for Australia it was a risky bid due to minimal local interest, but with changes in the recent media landscape, this became even harder.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

KiwiRob said:


> Have you been living in a cave, NZ has just held the Rugby World Cup, a far larger event than a figure skating world championships, it was successful, so I see know reason why a smaller event like figure skating couldn't be held in NZ.


I just just trying to make a comparison, if Auckland had the same event as Brisbane had, but couldn't fulfill it, then it would be the same end result.


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## Kernowboy71 (Sep 13, 2009)

Lord David said:


> New Zealand does have the 800 meter drop at Wanaka. Unlike Quebec, there's no stopping them from artificially heightening an existing slope, since no major ones run towards a river. Big investment would be had, but it is possible.
> 
> If artificial heightening and terraforming techniques greatly advance in the near future, Australia could theoretically host, with Canberra and the nearby Perisher Valley ski resorts.
> 
> ...


Treble Cone *DOES NOT* have a vertical drop of 800m. It's vertical elevation is in fact about 840m BUT the actual skiable elevation is 710m,

I used to work with NZSki.com so have also worked at Mount Hutt where the total skiable workable drop is 690m.

The largest current vertical drop in New Zealand is in fact in the North Island.

Secondly of the NZ resorts, whilst Queenstown is IN THEORY 70km from Wanaka that is across the Cardronna Range - I have tried to drive that in a 4WD in winter and had to turn back. Using Route6 it is over 110km. Treble Cone is then another 25km from Wanaka, along metal roads at the end, and the route up to the ski station is one of the most dangerous winter roads in the world. And Jacques Rogge has said 150km between sites is far too far. There is no way a speedier route could be created

Christchurch-Mount Hutt might be better about 100km with two routes, one down Route1 and the other through Darfield though both would need significant upgrading.

The big problem that Mount Hutt faces is that not only must there be a drop, but Bernard Russi the FIS downhill observor must deem the mountain suitably challenging for the men's downhill. My recollection of Mount Hutt is that whilst they might be able to stretch to 800m the route would be insufficiently steep at the bottom of the course to meet this requirement. This is what killed the Quebec bid .... there was a plateauish area in the middle of their proposed course

Whatever the outcome it will be huge expensive both financially and maybe also environmentally.


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## Kernowboy71 (Sep 13, 2009)

KiwiRob said:


> There are many resorts which are more than capable of having 800m of vertical drop, Mt Hutt, Porter Heights, Turoa, Trebble Cone, to name a few, all they need is access; Mt Hutt does have a full down hill course, access is via snow cat, for an Olympics lifts would of course be built.


Sorry Rob but there is a difference between vertical elevation and vertical drop. 

There reason why that additional elevation has not previously been used is because the topography lacks the financial benefits to make it financially worthwhile.

But Bernard Russi will look at the topography to see if extra height could allow for a suitably challenging downhill race. Quebec found the hill but Russi rejected it because the course would be too easy.

Having skied regularly at Treble Cone, I cannot see how they could add the additional drop, plus it is too far away from any sizeable population area to be included in a bid. It is 145km from Queenstown using Route6 as the Cardronna range road is often impassable even in 4WD. 

Mount Hutt may just be big enough but having worked there for NZSki I fear the bottom of any course would be too shallow in terms of steepness.

Turoa has a drop of 720m and might be extendable to 800m but that is irrelevant .... Rogge has already rejected bids where Alpine events are over 150km from the other events ..... Auckland is 430km, Wellington 310km, Hamilton 300km away so Turoa could not be used.

Porter Heights cannot get to 800m - its base elevation is 1302m and max height 1995m - its current vertical is 620m but the most it could get to would be 693m.

I think a Winter Olympics in NZ - in Christchurch - would be great but I think the challenges to get there would be too great.


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## DÁMASO (Dec 11, 2006)

Barcelona 2022 website 

http://w1.bcn.cat/candidatura2022/en


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

I don't think Salt Lake City should even be bidding for a second winter Olympics too soon, especially for 2022. If another U.S. city bids for the Olympics, it may be either Denver or Reno (or probably both). Denver won the rights to host the 1976 Winter Olympics, but had to pull out due to severe cost overruns and worries about environmental impact. 

Next time Denver wins the hosting rights for a future Winter Olympics, they will refuse to back down for any reason. Their metropolitan area has since improved from the 1976 bid, two new sports facilities were constructed during the turn of the millennium to replace those that existed in 1976. A huge new airport and a light rail system opened in the mid-1990s.


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

Accidental double post. Mods, please delete.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

The more I think about this, the more I'm convinced that Reno will not bid.

They may put forward a bid, but will ultimately fail (even if they go through the right channels) and the USOC will reject it.

Why? Simple, the city of Las Vegas, which is in the same state put forward a bid for the 2020 Olympics (declared a bid) directly to the IOC without going to the USOC first. It was rejected on both sides. This despicable act might just cause Reno to forfeit, even if they do everything by the book.

But then again, if the USOC is really keen on a Winter Games and there's no one else bidding (Salt Lake City seems unlikely, even if they propose a bid), then Reno it is.


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

Ok, then forget Reno, also.

I'll be willing to support a Denver bid for the Winter Olympics if it is officially announced.


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## kev_427 (Mar 13, 2011)

Why isn't Calgary considering 2022? that'd be cool.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

kev_427 said:


> Why isn't Calgary considering 2022? that'd be cool.


When the Winter Olympics come back to Canada, they'll likely be in Quebec City.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Calgary will only get it again if they have a far superior plan to Quebec's.

They can re-use and build new, but even with the mountain drop problem for Quebec, Quebec is most likely to get the nod.

I'd expect Quebec to propose a permanently artificially heightened mountain, preferably near Le Massif, perhaps that Cap du Salut proposal (the one near Le Massif) from their 2002 bid, just with a taller capped mountain as opposed to temporary ramp.

Technology advances, it could happen.


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## Severiano (Jul 5, 2006)

What are the chances of Urumqi China getting the 2022 Winter olympics?


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Is there even a suitable mountain near there? Has it hosted major events?

Harbin will be the logical choice, even if it's like 100 km to the ski resorts.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Lord David said:


> Calgary will only get it again if they have a far superior plan to Quebec's.
> 
> They can re-use and build new, but even with the mountain drop problem for Quebec, Quebec is most likely to get the nod.
> 
> ...


Agree. Le Massif isn't all that far off from the required minimum vertical drop. The Canadian Olympic Committee seem united in wanting a winter Olympics in Quebec City, but Toronto's summer Olympic intentions will come into play.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

The problem with Le Massif is that it has facilities at the top, which makes heightening it by a mere 30 - 50 metres difficult.

You take an undeveloped slope near the resort, top it by say 100 metres and there you go.


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

> Why isn't Calgary considering 2022? that'd be cool.


Montreal 1976
Calgary 1988
Vancouver 2010

Dear canadians, you had 3 games in a period of time other countries had none.
Host countries should be suspended for any olympic bid process for at least 20-25 years!!!!


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

GEwinnen said:


> Montreal 1976
> Calgary 1988
> Vancouver 2010
> 
> ...


Summer and Winter Olympics shouldn't be lumped together, but I agree that Canada needs to wait at least till 2030 till it bids for another Winter Olympics.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

GEwinnen said:


> Montreal 1976
> Calgary 1988
> Vancouver 2010
> 
> ...


But that wouldn't be the IOC's way. They consider bids to come from cities alone and naturally, if you have just hosted you are denied the next edition and the one after it, but who says you can't try again 12 or 16 years later?

So you don't choose the same city that just recently hosted, but another in the same country, go ahead, bid and watch as it all comes apart in the end when you are eliminated in the voting round.

In essence, the IOC craves for as much and any bid (especially now) from anywhere, even recent hosts. They won't win, but the IOC is trying to get as many cities interested as possible and the money coming in from bid cities (fees to be paid) are a plus too.


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## Alrayyan (Nov 29, 2010)

KiwiRob said:


> No snow in Doha, but I'm sure if they spent billions and built an indoor mountain with an 800m drop it would be looked at seriously.


Omg, don't give the Qatari officials here ideas *gasp*, Dubai had a mega giant snow globe planned right until the recession, then it was cancelled. If you keep nagging they might eventually do it (even though it feels completely wrong hno: )

Dubai's proposal:


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

Alrayyan said:


> Omg, don't give the Qatari officials here ideas *gasp*, Dubai had a mega giant snow globe planned right until the recession, then it was cancelled. If you keep nagging they might eventually do it (even though it feels completely wrong hno: )
> 
> Dubai's proposal:


What an insane idea!! 
Awarding WOG's to a desert country will be the end of reliability of the IOC!
I hope this will N*E*V*E*R happen!


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

Potential ice venues for the Denver 2022 Winter Olympics:

Figure Skating/Short Track Speedskating: Denver Center (Pepsi Center) - 18,000
Ice Hockey 1: Denver Coliseum - 10,200
Ice Hockey 2: Magness Arena - 6,000
Curling: Broomfield Event Centre - 5,917
Plus a brand-new speedskating oval

Ceremonies: Mile High Stadium (Sports Authority Field) - 76,125


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Yes I recognise the Dubai proposal; I believe it's balanced on the backs of four elephants which are in turn standing on the back of a giant turtle.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

^^ Denver could use the World Arena at Colorado Springs, in spite of most people saying it's too far and when coupled with the slopes would require 3 villages.

Colorado Springs would no doubt serve as a backup airport anyways, perhaps even hotels. Use a perfectly available, minor upgrades arena. It could also be the site of Speed Skating and be justification of having the Ski Jumps, Sliding Center and Biathlon Course.

The implementation of high speed rail linking Colorado Springs, Denver and the Ski Slopes is being considered and is a possibility.


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

^^Oh, that's okay, any Denver Winter Olympic bid can do well without anything in Colorado Springs, and Denver's Airport is large enough to manage by itself, so I don't think any backup airports are needed.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

^^ Perhaps. But it Colorado Spring's airport will be proposed and if high speed rail is available, it's hotel capacity will be available too. After all it IS the HQ of the USOC, so why not use that to your advantage. If it was not the HQ of the USOC, then don't bother. Even if they do have a reasonable arena.


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## likasz (Sep 4, 2008)

Kraków-Zakopane-Poprad-Jasna are simply the best bid.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Jim856796 said:


> What should be the maximum number of sports in the Winter Olympic Games if more events were added to the programme in the future?


Bandy would most likely be the sport added in the future. It offers another ice based sport and can easily serve a temporary ice field within a minor or major rectangular stadium. It could also be the site where ceremonies are held.


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## blacktrojan3921 (Sep 6, 2010)

My choices for 2022 Winter Olympics -for those that haven't decided to decline the chance to bid- is:

Kiev, Ukraine 
Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Munich, Germany
Barcelona, Spain


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

I think the Davos or St. Mortiz bid would be the strongest.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Actually, if Munich were to bid again and refine their bid, they would be the strongest.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Lord David said:


> Actually, if Munich were to bid again and refine their bid, they would be the strongest.


Except Thomas Bach does not WANT them blocking his IOC presidency aspirations. And maybe he is hoping it could be a Berlin 2024 rather than a Munich 2022 -- so it looks like a Munich 2022 is NOT going to happen


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Then why did they bid for 2018? 

Why would they not use such a great opportunity to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Summer Games coming to Munich?

I'd expect a bid from them, especially if the potential competition is low.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Lord David said:


> Then why did they bid for 2018?


Because Bach has not openly declared his candidacy for the IOC presidency, and if Munich 2022 is a known and open candidacy before September 2013, then Germany will get ONLY one - either Winter 2022 two years hence or the IOC presidency-- NOT both. And apparently, the powerful man behind the German NOC wants the former rather than the latter.

.
.
.
.
.


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## alesmarv (Mar 31, 2006)

Should be Santiago. Many of the best athletes train there in the summers anyways and there should be no issue with sponsorship's as the location and event scenario provides ample marketing leverage to get viewers on board. The olympics are about growing the sport and touching as many corners of the world as possible, there is no logical reason to not give the games to a southern country, especially on a continent that presents some of the highest growth prospects in winter sports, anywhere, and a continent that the ioc has been trying to make inroads in to.

IMO its Santiago's to lose so long as they put together a good and professional bid. If they dont put together a good enough bid for 2022 then 2026 should be their's. There is no other city in the southern hemisphere as capable of hosting the games as Santiago is, and of course none in South America.

This is a city of 7 million with world class ski resorts within 40 km's of the urban center. The city is is wealthy, connected and is serviced with modern transportation infrastructure...Its really a hidden gem and I think most people fail to realize what sort of city Santiago is, and what sort of country Chile is, and how that part of SA is...


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

Lord David said:


> Then why did they bid for 2018?
> 
> Why would they not use such a great opportunity to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Summer Games coming to Munich?
> 
> I'd expect a bid from them, especially if the potential competition is low.


A celebration of the 50th anniversary of the 1972 games could bring back bad memoriers.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

^^ Perhaps, but it will show that Munich is resolute, strong and ever more committed to the Olympic ideals.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Lord David said:


> ^^ Perhaps, but it will show that Munich is resolute, strong and ever more committed to the Olympic ideals.


Resolute about what? And so what? A dozen other cities can do the same. 

U're just more in love with the idea of a Munich winter Games than reality itself. Again, u're projecting _your_ desires over the reality on the ground or what the German NOC really wants--which is beyond your control anyway. hno:


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

alesmarv said:


> Should be Santiago. Many of the best athletes train there in the summers anyways and there should be no issue with sponsorship's as the location and event scenario provides ample marketing leverage to get viewers on board. The olympics are about growing the sport and touching as many corners of the world as possible, there is no logical reason to not give the games to a southern country, especially on a continent that presents some of the highest growth prospects in winter sports, anywhere, and a continent that the ioc has been trying to make inroads in to.
> 
> IMO its Santiago's to lose so long as they put together a good and professional bid. If they dont put together a good enough bid for 2022 then 2026 should be their's. There is no other city in the southern hemisphere as capable of hosting the games as Santiago is, and of course none in South America.
> 
> This is a city of 7 million with world class ski resorts within 40 km's of the urban center. The city is is wealthy, connected and is serviced with modern transportation infrastructure...Its really a hidden gem and I think most people fail to realize what sort of city Santiago is, and what sort of country Chile is, and how that part of SA is...


A Santiago/southern hemisphere WOGs ain't happening. It'll totally screw up the whole calendar of winter sports and winter product sponsors whose marketing programs are geared to the northern winters and these are the guys *who ultimately pay for the Games*. So unless the polar ice caps melt and reverse, a southern hemisphere WOGs ain't in the cards.


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## aquablue (Mar 18, 2006)

The US won't bid, I think they want the SOG.


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## George_D (Aug 28, 2012)

aquablue said:


> The US won't bid, I think they want the SOG.



they say they will decide between 2024 SOG and 2026 WOG


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## blacktrojan3921 (Sep 6, 2010)

Knitemplar said:


> A Santiago/southern hemisphere WOGs ain't happening. It'll totally screw up the whole calendar of winter sports and winter product sponsors whose marketing programs are geared to the northern winters and these are the guys *who ultimately pay for the Games*. So unless the polar ice caps melt and reverse, a southern hemisphere WOGs ain't in the cards.


Not necessarily, I think the Committee would love to have the WOG's in the southern hemisphere. I think the big issues are that most of the countries in the Southern Hemisphere don't have the money to host the games, and there's also the fact that Africa doesn't even have much infrastructure to host such games because there's only a few ski resorts in the entire continent compared to South America and Oceania.

We also have to keep in mind that as of right now, only Australia is able to host any Olympic games, and there's a good chance they are not in the mood to host any games now that they are focused on the 2019 Commonwealth Games in Gold Coast.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

^^ You mean 2018 Commonwealth Games for the Gold Coast.

Unfortunately, based on economics and actual Winter Olympics history/Winter sporting tradition and actual medal count, Australia seems only viable for a Winter Games and that won't be even a slight bid until years down the track (perhaps after a failed Summer Games bid from Brisbane or Melbourne).

That being said, we lack the necessary height for major events like Women's and Men's Downhill. 

However, given adequate investment, one could potentially modify the mountain slopes at Perisher Valley for example, to either increase their height to well above 800m, or dig below to provide the necessary vertical(s) drop(s).

As a result, you will have nearby Capital City of Canberra as host, with dedicated rail and road upgrades (or just road) linking it with Perisher Valley.

Canberra will host ice events, whilst the Perisher Valley would host snow events.

Potential venues are:

*Canberra:*
- A new Canberra Stadium serving ceremonies (40,000+)
- AIS Arena - 5,000 (Curling - Existing)
- New AIS Arena - 6,000-8,000 (Ice Hockey II - Permanent)
- Speed Skating Oval - 4,000 (Speed Skating - Permanent)

- Canberra Arena - (14,000 Ice Hockey - Permanent)
- Secondary Arena (12,000 Figure Skating/Short Track Speed Skating - Temporary)

Athletes' Village for a potential 6,000 (a secondary village will be built at Perisher Valley if needed)
Media Village for up to 10,000
Main Media Centre - New convention/exhibition centre, with a minimum of 50,000sqm of space.

*Perisher Valley:*
- Alpine Skiing at upgraded ski resorts/slopes
- Freestyle Skiing
- Snowboard events
- Ski Jumping (at Ski Jumping hills)
- Biathlon/Cross Country Skiing
- Sliding Centre (Bobsleigh, Luge, Skeleton)

Secondary Athletes' Village (if needed)
Media Sub Centre - a potential convention centre of at least 10,000sqm of space.

These new facilities/venues will serve as a new Olympic/Australian Institute of Sport training centre and will have a lasting assured legacy well after the games.

Alas, if we had the mountains, we could bid, but now it's just a pipe dream (even if one considers advances in mountain "making" technology)


----------



## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

blacktrojan3921 said:


> *Not necessarily*, I think the Committee would love to have the WOG's in the southern hemisphere. I think the big issues are that most of the countries in the Southern Hemisphere don't have the money to host the games, and there's also the fact that Africa doesn't even
> .


:shocked: Do you think the Games pay for themselves? :shocked:

The IOC cannot survive without NBC. NBC will NOT continue paying those billions for the broadcasts WITHOUT sponsors who will share the bill and give some return to NBC's stockholders. Do you think Duraflame, Rossignol, Tylenol, scarves-&-gloves will buy, etc., buy Olympic airtime in September for products that normally sell in the northern February-March? Think again. 

And the federations too get their funding from northern winter-related companies. They would NOT survive either without such sources.


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

BREAKING: No Olympic Winter Games in Switzerland in 2022. Voters of the canton of Grisons say no to the candidacy of Davos St Moritz.


----------



## Gatsby (Feb 13, 2003)

> Monday, March 04, 2013
> 
> *Swiss exit good for possible Munich 2022 Games bid - DOSB
> *
> ...


http://thestar.com.my/sports/story....ossible-munich-2022-games-bid-dosb&sec=sports



> *Munich Bid Competition "Eased"; Very Strong Support for Tokyo
> 3/4/2013*
> 
> *Munich Weighing Impact of Swiss Decision
> ...


http://www.aroundtherings.com/articles/view.aspx?id=42494


----------



## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Aulus said:


> Will Santiago really bid? I haven't heard anything.


Exactly and even if they did bid and have everything in place, they won't win on the first attempt.

Besides, I somewhat think that once the IOC is ready to go to the Southern Hemisphere (putting the dates aside) it might want to go to NZ first.


----------



## Aulus (May 7, 2013)

Lord David said:


> Exactly and even if they did bid and have everything in place, they won't win on the first attempt.
> 
> Besides, I somewhat think that once the IOC is ready to go to the Southern Hemisphere (putting the dates aside) it might want to go to NZ first.


I think it would be a surprise if they really make the shortlist.


----------



## -Corey- (Jul 8, 2005)

Why NZ first? Isn't Chile more developed in this matter with more ski resorts and better infrastructure than NZ?


----------



## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

NZ has potential and more importantly, at least some Winter sports culture. The first medal from the Southern Hemisphere came from NZ in 1992 and NZ has a reasonable Winter Paralympics record.

It could work with Dunedin, Queenstown and Wanaka for Men's Downhill.

The alternative is Christchurch. Where you can propose a massive rebuilding effort.


----------



## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

*Munich*
The Deutsche Olympische Sportbund (the Association of the German sports Federations) did conclude on a second bid by Munich. However, there will be referendums in all four towns where the venues would be located (Munich, Garmisch-Partenkirchen, Ruhpolding and Schönau) on 10 november which need to be won beforde Munich can bid for the games.

Website of the city of Munich for the bid: http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/Stadtinfos/Olympia2022.html
Concept for the bid (PDF): http://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/dms/...Konzeptstudie-Muenchen-2022/Konzeptstudie.pdf
(both in German)


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## ReNaHtEiM (Jul 15, 2013)

I hope this NOlympia idiots will not be heard by anybody.


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## blacktrojan3921 (Sep 6, 2010)

-Corey- said:


> Why NZ first? Isn't Chile more developed in this matter with more ski resorts and better infrastructure than NZ?


I kind of doubt that the WOG will be going to a nation south of the equator any time soon. Not only will it be summer-autumn time in January and February, but all of the countries are not considered powerhouses for Winter games, and Santiago doesn't have the venues needed to host ice sport events.

Personally, considering the field of cities potentially bidding compared to those who announced they are not, I think these places have the best chances of winning the bid:

Almaty, Kazakhstan
Munich, Germany
Stockholm, Sweden
-long shot but still would be cool- Santiago, Chile
Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina


----------



## Its AlL gUUd (Jan 24, 2006)

With all the confusion going on about the timing of the Qatar World Cup, would it affect the bidding process for the Winter Olympics?


----------



## George_D (Aug 28, 2012)

blacktrojan3921 said:


> I kind of doubt that the WOG will be going to a nation south of the equator any time soon. Not only will it be summer-autumn time in January and February, but all of the countries are not considered powerhouses for Winter games, and Santiago doesn't have the venues needed to host ice sport events.
> 
> Personally, considering the field of cities potentially bidding compared to those who announced they are not, I think these places have the best chances of winning the bid:
> 
> ...


Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina ?? lol


----------



## _Joos_ (Apr 25, 2013)

Maybe not for 2022 but should ever be in the southern hemisphere nothing is impossible for example Rio de Janeiro Olympic Games Qatar 2016 World Cup and 2022 and better than Santiago, Chile, but to do that we have to work in the winter sport from now because the desire already.

Santia-GO Olimpyc Winter Games Chile


----------



## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

George_D said:


> Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina ?? lol


It's hard to imagine the Olympics heading back there.


----------



## Alphaville (Nov 28, 2007)

isaidso said:


> It's hard to imagine the Olympics heading back there.


Perhaps not in the 2020s, but I'd be willing to bet that they'd have a chance soon after - maybe the centenary of 1984 in 2034? BiH has changed a lot even in the past 10 years. It might be a bigger task than other European options like Oslo, but it would have a highly emotive and compelling case to set to the IOC.



George_D said:


> Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina ?? lol


Why is this funny?


----------



## George_D (Aug 28, 2012)

_Joos_ said:


> Maybe not for 2022 but should ever be in the southern hemisphere nothing is impossible for example Rio de Janeiro Olympic Games Qatar 2016 World Cup and 2022 and better than Santiago, Chile, but to do that we have to work in the winter sport from now because the desire already.
> 
> Santia-GO Olimpyc Winter Games Chile


Can someone present us a list of possible/existing venues for chile winter olympics? thanks


----------



## falp6 (Jun 26, 2013)

I'm confused, Santiago will launch an official bid for Winter Olympics 2022?


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Alphaville said:


> Perhaps not in the 2020s, but I'd be willing to bet that they'd have a chance soon after - maybe the centenary of 1984 in 2034? BiH has changed a lot even in the past 10 years. It might be a bigger task than other European options like Oslo, but it would have a highly emotive and compelling case to set to the IOC.


They have an awfully long road ahead of themselves, but maybe they could get there by 2034.


----------



## prahovaploiesti (May 28, 2011)

Alphaville said:


> maybe the centenary of 1984 in 2034?


I don't understand, centenary of what?

The centenary of:
Sarajevo 1984 is in 2084.
First winter games are in 2024.
First summer games (modern) where in Athens 2004.
First olympic games where in Atlanta 1996.


----------



## Alphaville (Nov 28, 2007)

prahovaploiesti said:


> I don't understand, centenary of what? The centenary of: Sarajevo 1984 is in 2084.


I meant anniversary. Congratulations on your ability to pick up on my hurried language misuse. A little bit of critical thought of your part would have allowed you to recognise what I had intended to say. Meanwhile, let's take a look at you:



> First winter games are in 2024. First summer games (modern) where in Athens 2004. First olympic games where in Atlanta 1996.


 OK, so I will assume you refer to centennial celebrations (as it is unclear from the confusing form of your paragraph) - but what was Athens 2004 a centenary of? St. Louis?


----------



## prahovaploiesti (May 28, 2011)

Alphaville said:


> I meant anniversary. Congratulations on your ability to pick up on my hurried language misuse. A little bit of critical thought of your part would have allowed you to recognise what I had intended to say. Meanwhile, let's take a look at you:


Sorry, didn't meant to be critical, I just didn't see the 1984-2034 conection.



Alphaville said:


> OK, so I will assume you refer to centennial celebrations (as it is unclear from the confusing form of your paragraph) - but what was Athens 2004 a centenary of? St. Louis?


I just realised that mistake.
First modern games and also summer games centenary was in Atlanta 1996. I got confused the dates.


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## boyerling3 (Jun 1, 2009)

prahovaploiesti said:


> First modern games and also summer games centenary was in Atlanta 1996. I got confused the dates.


Huh? First modern Summer Olympics were Athens 1896. The centenary of which was Atlanta 1996. 

In any case to go to the original point. Sarajevo could host it 50 years after they last hosted but I think it's very unlikely that they would host or even bid for 2022.


----------



## Alphaville (Nov 28, 2007)

prahovaploiesti said:


> Sorry, didn't meant to be critical, I just didn't see the 1984-2034 conection. I just realised that mistake. First modern games and also summer games centenary was in Atlanta 1996. I got confused the dates.


No worries - all good


----------



## prahovaploiesti (May 28, 2011)

Alphaville said:


> No worries - all good


Well it was 2 AM in Romania and I didn't think like a rested man. :lol:


----------



## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

Barcelona won't bid for 2022 Olympic Winter Games

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/barcel...-olympic-winter-games-1.1512838#ixzz2ilnfRUAf


----------



## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*Beijing, Zhangjiakou bid for 2022 Winter Olympics*
5 November 2013

BEIJING (AP) — Beijing and the northern Chinese city of Zhangjiakou are bidding for the 2022 Winter Olympics.

The Chinese Olympic Committee sent a formal nomination letter to the International Olympic Committee on Sunday and the bid is supported by the Chinese government, China's official news agency Xinhua reported Tuesday.

"The China Olympic Committee believes that Beijing and Zhangjiakou have the natural conditions and infrastructure to successfully host the Winter Olympics," the committee said in a statement.

"The bid to host the 2022 Winter Olympics will further improve the development of the Chinese Olympic cause, display the comprehensive power of China and push forward the coordinated development of the economies of the two cities," it said.

Beijing hosted the 2008 Summer Olympics. Under the 2022 bid plans, Beijing would hold the ice events.

Zhangjiakou, a city surrounded by mountains with ski resorts 100 miles northwest of Beijing in the neighboring province of Hebei, would host the snow events. There are many hotels being built in the valley towns serving the ski resorts.

A high speed train line linking the two cities is scheduled to open next year, with a journey time between the two of 40 minutes.

Nov. 14 is the deadline for submission of bids to the IOC.

China has bid previously for the Winter Olympics. The northeast city of Harbin failed to make the short list of finalists in the race for the 2010 Winter Games, which went to Vancouver.

Almaty, Kazakhstan, has already officially lodged a 2022 bid. Other potential contenders include Oslo, Norway; Munich; Lviv, Ukraine; and a joint bid from Poland and Slovakia. Barcelona has decided not to bid.

The IOC will select the 2022 host city in 2015.

The chances of Asia getting the games in 2022 would seem remote, as Pyeongchang, South Korea, will host the 2018 Winter Games and Tokyo will stage the 2020 Summer Olympics.


----------



## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

Lviv, in Ukraine, on Tuesday, 5 November 2013, has officially submitted a bid for the 2022 Olympic Winter Games.

If Lviv and the Carpathian Mountains were to host the Games, Lviv would host the opening, closing and medal ceremonies, as well as the ice sports; Volovets (around 185 km (115 mi) from Kiev) would host the Alpine skiing competitions; and Pylypets (around 220 km (120 mi) from Kiev) as the venue for all the other snow sports. (Potential venue plan from organisers' website.)


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

hkskyline said:


> BEIJING (AP) — Beijing and the northern Chinese city of Zhangjiakou are bidding for the 2022 Winter Olympics.


I had to Google Zhangjiakou. Side note: I would have thought Harbin would be China's choice. Are there suitable mountains near Harbin to host down hill events?

It would be nice to see China develop into a strong winter sports nation. Chinese hockey team? :colgate:


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

isaidso said:


> I had to Google Zhangjiakou. Side note: I would have thought Harbin would be China's choice. Are there suitable mountains near Harbin to host down hill events?
> 
> It would be nice to see China develop into a strong winter sports nation. Chinese hockey team? :colgate:


Harbin tried for 2010 and didn't make the final cut.


----------



## George_D (Aug 28, 2012)

isaidso said:


> I had to Google Zhangjiakou. Side note: I would have thought Harbin would be China's choice. Are there suitable mountains near Harbin to host down hill events?
> 
> It would be nice to see China develop into a strong winter sports nation. Chinese hockey team? :colgate:


i think that this bid is more for experience since 2018 is in asia and now is europe time for 2022


----------



## Aquilani (Feb 27, 2009)

*Kraków [Poland/Slovakia]*



> *Poland Launches Joint Bid With Slovakia For 2022 Winter Olympics*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Kraków, one of 12 the most valuable objects from the first UNESCO World Heritage List would be a perfect scenery for Winter Olympics.


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

It seems Munich won't bid, the opponents are in front in the poll now (55 % / 45%)

Edit: Munich is out, they will not bid, the poll is lost!


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## flierfy (Mar 4, 2008)

That saves München and Germany from another humiliating defeat by the IOC executive committee.


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## andydie (Oct 18, 2007)

Stupid people in Munich, oh well lets hope that opens up the chance for the 2024 Summer Olympics in Hamburg or Berlin


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

flierfy said:


> That saves München and Germany from another humiliating defeat by the IOC executive committee.


Pyeongchang was widely expected to win 2018 after their third attempt and putting Leipzig forward for 2012 was just stupid. Germany's just lost a massive chance at landing an Olympic Games here. It ought to have been the strong frontrunner in this race.


----------



## Aulus (May 7, 2013)

It was a bad idea to ask people. The Olympic Games or other big sport events have a bad reputation in Germany since Sochi and Qatar.


----------



## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

RobH said:


> Germany's just lost a massive chance at landing an Olympic Games here.


This is called democracy, the majority doesn't want the games.


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

I understand that. It's a difficult one because these things do change. Had London had a referendum in 2003 it would've been a close run thing and we might not have bid, but by the time 2012 came round the Games had strong approval and were deemed a big success. Other people on Gamesbids forums have said that same about Sydney 2000 (imagine _that_ Games never happening because of a referndum defeat in the early 90s?!)

Far be it from me to say Munich is wrong though, it's their decision obviously. From a neutral's perspective, it's just a shame we've lost a strong contender in this race.


----------



## derzberb (Aug 13, 2009)

andydie said:


> Stupid people in Munich, oh well lets hope that opens up the chance for the 2024 Summer Olympics in Hamburg or Berlin


i am an inhabitant of munich and i voted *NO*.

there are some simple reasons: the contract between the city and the IOC would have been simply obscene. The IOC claims all the benefit, they wouldn't pay taxes, take all the profit. All financial risks are on the city's site - experience tells that it would have brought billions of costs to the city.

It is part of the contract that the IOC could change the conditions of the contract unilaterally. Furthermore the contract implies to install lines reserved for the "olympic family" on all roads between the venues, across the city and the land of bavaria. 

This is ridiculous. To me it was a matter of *self-respect* and simple economic calculation to vote against the bid.

We don't need that sponsor's-games here. We need some more public transport and affordable residential property here. Munich is already a very expensive town. Rents are already reasonably higher as anywhere else in Germany.

I hope that in future no one in the world accepts these obscene IOC-conditions. *Bring that f***/&%$%&$ IOC down!*


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

The benefits of the 1972 games for Munich were huge, they were much higher than the costs of 5 billion DM!
The budget for the 2022 games should be 3 bln €, cause almost all venues are ready (Sochi's budget is 50 bln €!!)!

Bavaria threw away a big chance, very sad.


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## derzberb (Aug 13, 2009)

you cannot compare the situation of 1972 to 2022.


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

derzberb said:


> you cannot compare the situation of 1972 to 2022.


No, cause the current situation is MORE comfortable then 1972.
All (almost) venues are ready and in use.


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## George_D (Aug 28, 2012)

Aulus said:


> It was a bad idea to ask people. The Olympic Games or other big sport events have a bad reputation in Germany since Sochi and Qatar.


 why?


----------



## derzberb (Aug 13, 2009)

George_D said:


> why?


corruption, hypocracy, "sports"-events for sponsor's and IOC's/FIFA's benefit. it is nothing about sports. it is only about the profit for fat old man and their escort ladies. these "sports"-events are big bullshit.

look at FIFA world cup in Qatar, winter olympics in Sotchi. waste of money in sotchi, ecologic desaster, ...

its a shame. slave-workers dying while construction of world-cup-stadiums in qatar.

its all about business, nothing about sports, human rights, ecology/economy.

IOC/FIFA = uke:


----------



## flierfy (Mar 4, 2008)

GEwinnen said:


> All (almost) venues are ready and in use.


And this is exactly the point why München don't stand a chance. The IOC doesn't like bidders which have almost all of the required venues in place. They like bids which promise to move quite literally mountains when they host the games. The picked London instead of Paris. They chose Peongchang, Sotchi, Rio. The more lunatic a bid is the more likely is it to win. München can't offer this kind of lunacy. And that's why it's better that München and Germany withdraws. The city may consider a bid once the IOC changed their minds.


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## dande (Jan 28, 2005)

This means that Oslo and Stockholm are front runners. Unless German authorities choose to ignore the results of the referendum and bid anyway. In that case it´s a shoe in.


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

derzberb said:


> corruption, hypocracy, "sports"-events for sponsor's and IOC's/FIFA's benefit. it is nothing about sports. it is only about the profit for fat old man and their escort ladies. these "sports"-events are big bullshit.
> 
> look at FIFA world cup in Qatar, winter olympics in Sotchi. waste of money in sotchi, ecologic desaster, ...
> 
> ...


I can understand why you wouldn't necessarily want the disruption and the cost, and if you don't think they're right for your city that's fair enough. 

But here's what's confusing about your other points....you'd like the events not to go to places like Sochi and Qatar, but don't want them in _your particular_ liberal democracy either, in a place where there _wouldn't_ be rights abuses and such-like. So, where should they be held then? Ironically, the chances of Beijing and China hosting another Games in 2022 have just gone up with this NO vote. 

And to say it's nothing to do with sports is obviously nonsense - it's the highest level of sporting competition on the planet in many sports and I saw some amazing sport in London last year in both the Olympics and Paralympics. But all that costs money so you either have huge commercialisation or you put more burden on the taxpayer - unless you can think of an alternative, there's no third way, it's a really tricky balance. So what's the solution do you think?


----------



## flierfy (Mar 4, 2008)

RobH said:


> Pyeongchang was widely expected to win 2018 after their third attempt and putting Leipzig forward for 2012 was just stupid. Germany's just lost a massive chance at landing an Olympic Games here. It ought to have been the strong frontrunner in this race.


There is, however, a difference between winning and winning by a landslide in the first round of voting. The outcome of the 2018 vote was simply disastrous for München. Berlin suffered a similar result with its bid for the 2000 summer Olympics. German bids don't just lose, they don't even come close. They get utterly rejected. I really don't understand why you would have had regarded München a 'strong frontrunner'.

Leipzigs bid wasn't stupid. Which other city should have run against London, Paris and New York? Probably none. It was stupid that Germany consider a bid at all. Leipzig was the plucky loser which could stand defeat. That's why they were chosen. And defeat was certain for every city Germany could have brought forward.


----------



## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

flierfy said:


> .
> 
> Leipzigs bid wasn't stupid. Which other city should have run against London, Paris and New York? Probably none. It was stupid that Germany consider a bid at all. Leipzig was the plucky loser which could stand defeat. That's why they were chosen. And defeat was certain for every city Germany could have brought forward.


WHAT??? :uh: What sort of illogic is that? So you put up a city for it to be the sacrificial lamb? For what end??


----------



## flierfy (Mar 4, 2008)

Knitemplar said:


> WHAT??? :uh: What sort of illogic is that? So you put up a city for it to be the sacrificial lamb? For what end??


Good question. I can't give you an answer to that question I'm afraid. The whole affair looks rather silly retrospectively. It was certainly a lucrative business for some advertising agencies that several cities competed with each other to be elected as German candidate city. I have the suspicion these business interests were probably the entire reason why it was done.


----------



## Its AlL gUUd (Jan 24, 2006)

Munich would've been my favoured choice out of all the interested bids, it's a shame they aren't going ahead with a bid. 

I'm not liking these increasingly joint bids, especially cross border bids like Poland and Slovakia.


----------



## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

> it's a shame they aren't going ahead with a bid


This is called democracy.

This cross border polish/czech bid will have no chance imo, Oslo is the frontrunner now.
My prediction is that we won't see any olympics in Germany in this century.


----------



## derzberb (Aug 13, 2009)

RobH said:


> But here's what's confusing about your other points....you'd like the events not to go to places like Sochi and Qatar, but don't want them in _your particular_ liberal democracy either, in a place where there _wouldn't_ be rights abuses and such-like. So, where should they be held then? Ironically, the chances of Beijing and China hosting another Games in 2022 have just gone up with this NO vote.


so would it be the conclusion just to accept the IOC's conditions and their ignorance to issues of ecology and human rights?

people in switzerland voted against a bid for 2022, in oslo 45% of the people voted against. is there another (democratic and peaceful) way to tell the IOC that they are wrong?

What would the IOC do, if oslo and stockholm wouldn't bid also? what would they do, if noone from europe and northamerica bids? 




> And to say it's nothing to do with sports is obviously nonsense - it's the highest level of sporting competition on the planet in many sports and I saw some amazing sport in London last year in both the Olympics and Paralympics. But all that costs money so you either have huge commercialisation or you put more burden on the taxpayer - unless you can think of an alternative, there's no third way, it's a really tricky balance. So what's the solution do you think?


why is it a must to build new venues for the games? there was simply no need to build 12 new stadiums in brazil and so even those football-crazy brazilians protested while confed-cup. there was no need to spend billions to widely destroy nature around sotchi. there would not be such a need for commercialization, if they would use existing venues.

of course there is *also* some sports happening and i love sports, i love stadiums and i love events. but these FIFA and IOC events have become monstrous. for these IOC-managers i think that *sports* doesn't really count.


----------



## Aquilani (Feb 27, 2009)

GEwinnen said:


> This cross border polish/czech bid will have no chance imo, Oslo is the frontrunner now.


It's a Poland/Slovakia one. And generally there is NO border because both countries belong to European Union and to the Schengen Area...

On the other hand, Norway hosted two Winter Olympics ( 1952 Oslo and 1994 Lillehammer) and will host Winter Youth Olympic Games 2016 in Lillehammer. 

The International Olympic Committee has a tendency to award Olympics to different countries so it' s unlikely that Norway will host the next Winter Olympics in such a short period of time.

Especially, after these words of Thomas Bach :



> Bach's Manifesto states a primary goal “to keep the Olympic Games the most attractive event in the world.”
> 
> *“In order to do this we must ensure that organizing the Games is attractive and feasible for as many cities and countries in the world as possible, with different social, cultural and political backgrounds,” Bach told a group of international reporters Friday.*
> 
> ...


http://www.gamesbids.com/eng/olympic_bids/2020_bid_news/1216136651.html

Generally, Winter Olympics 2022 were reserved for Munich. It was the candidacy out of range of other partecipants. Now everything is possible...


----------



## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Aquilani said:


> It's a Poland/Slovakia one. And generally there is NO border because both countries belong to European Union and to the Schengen Area...


That's a trade block; Poland and Slovakia do not compete as one nation. The IOC has never granted an Olympics to 2 separate NOCs. The chances of them making an exception are slim.


----------



## Aquilani (Feb 27, 2009)

isaidso said:


> That's a trade block; Poland and Slovakia do not compete as one nation. The IOC has never granted an Olympics to 2 separate NOCs. The chances of them making an exception are slim.


But 'exception' has already been made...

Olympics 2008 were hosted by cities from different NOCs- Beijing( China) and Hong Kong which was the site of the equestrian venues.


And what's the most important :

*Olympic Charter :*


> 34 Location, sites and venues of the Olympic Games
> 
> 1. All sports competition must take place in the host city of the Olympic Games, unless the IOC Executive Board authorises the organisation of certain events in other cities,sites or venues situated in the same country. The Opening and Closing Ceremonies must take place in the host city itself. The location, sites and venues for any sports or other events of any kind must all be approved by the IOC Executive Board.
> 
> 2.* For the Olympic Winter Games, when for geographical or topographical reasons it is impossible to organise certain events or disciplines of a sport in the country of the host city, the IOC may, on an exceptional basis, authorise the holding of these in a bordering country."*


So everything is in accordance with the law. Alpine skiing would take place in Slovakia because it's impossible to organise these competitions in Poland.


----------



## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Aquilani said:


> But 'exception' has already been made...
> 
> Olympics 2008 were hosted by cities from different NOCs- Beijing( China) and Hong Kong which was the site of the equestrian venues.


Hong Kong is not a separate NOC. They compete under the flag of China. Btw I'm not saying its impossible just unlikely. Poland and Slovakia will stand a better chance if its packaged as a Slovakian Olympics with 1 discipline contested in Poland or the reverse situation. Having dual hosts is problematic from the IOC's pov.

Finland is a country that probably would have hosted already if they had a suitable mountain. Rather than proposing to host in conjunction with another country, they're proposing to build a mountain. It's an extremely expensive strategy, but will likely result in a better chance of winning a bid.


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## Aquilani (Feb 27, 2009)

Hong Kong has separate NOC. 

They have their own olympic comittee, flag, athletes, during opening ceremonies they go separately from China.

But I agree, that it's not the most important in case of Krakow..


----------



## derzberb (Aug 13, 2009)

why not qatar? they would easily build indoor-venues for this.


----------



## PAO13 (Sep 23, 2009)

As I said a couple of years ago, Oslo is going to win this.


----------



## dande (Jan 28, 2005)

Stockholm is throwing their hat in the race.


----------



## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

PAO13 said:


> As I said a couple of years ago, Oslo is going to win this.


Not necessarily. The IOC likes to move the Games around; that was part of the vision of the modern Games founder, Baron Pierre de Coubertin. Norway-Oslo-Lillehammer has such a 'been there-done that' feel to it. 

There also have been TWO times that the modern Olympics were split and shared by two different countries:

1. Antwerp 1920 - the first time the Finn class of Sailing appeared on the Olympic slate, the finals were conducted in Dutch waters a little more north of Ostende. 

2. 1956 - main Games in Melbourne, Australia. Equestrian in Stockholm, Sweden. 

So there are precedents for bi-national bids and ACTUAL staging.


----------



## Athinaios (Mar 15, 2008)

isaidso said:


> The IOC has never granted an Olympics to 2 separate NOCs.


Ever heard of 1956 and 1920 Olympics? 
In Melbourne 1956 the equestrian events were held five months earlier in Stockholm. Equestrian could not be held in Australia due to quarantine regulations. This was the second Olympics not to be held entirely in one country, the first being the 1920 in Antwerp, where a single sailing event which took place in Dutch waters and as such, the games were officially in both countries.

Same story would be with Kraków, where we can't have Alpine skiing due to fact our available mountains (because most of them are preserved in national parks) are not high enough for these competitions. It is not that we want to share Olympics because we want to split costs. That wouldn't be a problem to host entirely by Poland if mountains were not an issue.


----------



## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

It would be nice to see the winter Olympics go to a new region of the world. Almaty would be a refreshing change.


----------



## dj4life (Oct 22, 2009)

Stockholm-Åre, please.


----------



## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Sweden's never had it, have they?


----------



## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

isaidso said:


> Almaty would be a refreshing change.


3 Olympic Games in a row in Asia?`This won't happen.


----------



## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

GEwinnen said:


> 3 Olympic Games in a row in Asia?`This won't happen.


Europe did and Asia has 6 times the population of Europe.

*8 times in a row:* 1906 Athens, 1908 London, 1912 Stockholm, 1920 Antwerp, 1924 Paris, 1924 Chamonix, 1928 Amsterdam, 1928 St. Moritz

*4 times in a row:* 1948 London, 1948 St. Moritz, 1952 Helsinki, 1952 Oslo

*3 times in a row:* 1992 Barcelona, 1992 Albertville, 1994 Lillehammer


----------



## apinamies (Sep 1, 2010)

Anlysixth said:


> ^^^^Santiago de Chile would be a great WOG bid, it's an amazing very developed city with great ski facilities. It's totally anti olympic and unfair to limit Winter games to northern Hemisphere Winter. Argentina, Chile, New Zealand, and probably some other have great facilities and conditions to make them.
> 
> I hope Santiago goes for it!!! And i think thay if they do they'll win it!!!
> 
> Santiago 2022 Winter Olimpic Games!!!


I don't know others but I sure wouldn't watch winter games in Summer.


----------



## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

apinamies said:


> I don't know others but I sure wouldn't watch winter games in Summer.


It would be weird, but I'd be willing to make an exception once in a blue moon so a southern hemisphere country could host. Chile, New Zealand? It's in the interest of winter sports that non-traditional winter sports countries get to host.


----------



## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

isaidso said:


> Europe did and Asia has 6 times the population of Europe.


It is not Europe's fault the asians are interested in the winter games just since 1972.



> *8 times in a row:* 1906 Athens, 1908 London, 1912 Stockholm, 1920 Antwerp, 1924 Paris, 1924 Chamonix, 1928 Amsterdam, 1928 St. Moritz


The 1906 games weren't official olympics. For the 1908 edition only european cities bid. For 1912 Stockholm was the only applicant city (1928 St. Morits aswell)!



> *3 times in a row:* 1992 Barcelona, 1992 Albertville, 1994 Lillehammer


The IOC is european dominated, that's a fact, but you're right, in 1994 Anchorage should have been the winner!
(btw, another bid of Anchorage for the 2026 winter games would be a great idea!)


----------



## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

GEwinnen said:


> It is not Europe's fault the asians are interested in the winter games just since 1972.


I never said it was Europe's fault. The fact remains that it's a bit rich for a European to suggest what you are given that Europe has gotten it 8 times in a row, 4 times in a row, and 3 times in a row. What the reasons are behind that is neither here nor there as far as non-Europeans like myself are concerned.



GEwinnen said:


> The IOC is european dominated, that's a fact, but you're right, in 1994 Anchorage should have been the winner!
> (btw, another bid of Anchorage for the 2026 winter games would be a great idea!)


Where did I say that Anchorage should have been the winner? :weird:


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

What happened in the early and mid-20th century is irrelevent to today's Olympic 'rota' (for want of a better word). The only sequence there that has any relevence is the one in the 90s and even that hasn't been repeated since.

The IOC tries to spread the Games around as much as they can now of the bids on offer are good enough. I think it's possible for an Asian bid to win 2022, but there's no doubt PC and Tokyo hampers the chances of it happening, in much the same way London and Sochi undoubtedly hampered Madrid's 2016 bid. 



isaidso said:


> The fact remains that it's a bit rich for a European to suggest...


The probable truth of GEwinnen's statement wouldn't change if he was from anywhere else in the world.


----------



## Aulus (May 7, 2013)

Why is North America not bidding? I think it would not be a problem if they would have the Summer and Winter Games in a row.


----------



## derzberb (Aug 13, 2009)

Aquilani said:


> *Tatra Mountains, Poland & Slovakia*


Beautyful Landscape. Hope, it will never be destroyed by Olympic Business.


----------



## Aquilani (Feb 27, 2009)

^^

Fortunately, there is no risk because these places are located in Tatra National Park. Just 90 km from Krakow 

BTW - Preserving the natural environment in national parks was the main reason why Poland decided to prepare a joint bid with Slovakia. Slovakia has higher mountain peaks outside national parks. And it was a proper place to build ski resorts.

So we can guarantee that nothing will be destroyed.


----------



## GoSpurs (Nov 16, 2013)

Florianópolis, BRAZIL 2022 :nocrook:
























:lol: I actually did ski this year on my state's hills but unfortunetely we can't have resorts


I wish we could at least have a closer country to bid for the olympic, and santiago has the conditions. But I know, it won't happen. Then go Oslo!


----------



## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

RobH said:


> The probable truth of GEwinnen's statement wouldn't change if he was from anywhere else in the world.


In law they call that 'hearsay'.


----------



## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Aulus said:


> Why is North America not bidding? I think it would not be a problem if they would have the Summer and Winter Games in a row.


There's no way Canada will bid considering we just hosted in 2010. The very earliest you'll see another Canadian bid would be 2030 or later. In north America that leaves the US and they will likely bid for the 2024 summer Olympics. If they were awarded the 2022 winter Olympics it might jeopardize their chances in 2024, and that's likely the bigger prize in their eyes. 

I know similar discussions happened here in Canada regarding the Toronto 2008 summer Olympic bid and Vancouver 2010 winter Olympic bid. I doubt Vancouver would have won if Toronto had already secured 2008.


----------



## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

isaidso said:


> Where did I say that Anchorage should have been the winner? :weird:


Nowhere, I had a look which cities bid for the 1994 games and Anchorage deserved it more than Lillehammer, who followed the european Albertville directley. 

Anyway, I doesn't really care where the 2022 games will take place (Munich is out), if the IOC will select Almaty, the games will take place in Almaty!
But it is unlikely the IOC will award 3 Olympic Games in a row to asia!


----------



## Oslo2022 (Nov 7, 2011)

*Oslo - Games in the city!*








https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/418471_325184210864641_1525655237_n.jpg









http://imageshack.com/scaled/800x600/801/xo4h.png









http://www.imageshack.com/scaled/large/9/jqb5.png

_Oslo 2011 - Nordic World skiing championships_
49246645









http://dittoslo.no/polopoly_fs/hopprenn-holmenkollen-1.6073382!/image/3688713592.JPG_gen/derivatives/derivative_article_980/3688713592.JPG









https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/417078_323923587657370_1336432527_n.jpg









http://g.api.no/obscura/API/image/r1/escenic/978x1200r/1299511285/archive/03675/Johaug_Bj_rgen_Sca_3675221a.jpg









http://pub.nettavisen.no/multimedia/na/archive/01177/Holmenkollen_VM_117778116x9.jpg









http://www.nationen.no/images/id/649/649913/6499133/jpg/active/790x.jpg

_Oslo 2012 - World Snowboarding Championships_
37240095









http://img4.onthesnow.com/image/gg/91/91017.jpg









http://pub.cdn.tv2.no/multimedia/TV2/archive/01038/menn_snowboarding2_1038062i.jpg









http://p3.no/snobrett/files/2012/02/halfpipe.jpg









http://www.kxp.no/portal/upload/news/thumbnails/main/PARACLUB_page_i34811_1352537451229.jpg









http://imageshack.com/scaled/800x600/14/weft.png


----------



## Aquilani (Feb 27, 2009)

*Exclusive: Kraków is a Polish bid for 2022 Olympics with some events in Slovakia insists leader*



> _By Nick Butler_ at the Starling Hotel in Lausanne
> 
> Kraków's campaign for the 2022 Winter Olympic and Paralympic Games is distinctly Polish but with some events held across the Slovakian border for "topographical and geographical reasons," bid leader Jagna Marczułajtis-Walczak has claimed.


More... http://www.insidethegames.biz/olymp...s-with-some-events-in-slovakia-insists-leader


----------



## Denjiro (Jun 18, 2012)

isaidso said:


> It would be nice to see the winter Olympics go to a new region of the world. Almaty would be a refreshing change.


Almaty is my favourite. :happy:


----------



## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Gadiri said:


> I never thought that people pratice winter sport in Australia. 2228m for the high peak.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are referring to Mount Kosciusko, the highest mountain in the Southern Hemisphere by peak and elevation.

But 2228m, although impressive as that is is meaningless if the vertical is only a 100 or so meters.

Thredbo has a vertical of 672m. The best option would be to artificially heighten and lower the slopes by 128m+ to meet the vertical of 800m for Men's Downhill. This should also be taking into consideration that the eventual length of the course run will likely be over 5km. You'd probably want that figure to be smaller, so you'd opt to artificially heighten an undeveloped slope nearby and make the course around 2-4km if possible.

By the 2030's I'd like to see a bid from the Southern Hemisphere, just to see how far it can go.


----------



## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

Be interesting to see a Winter edition in the southern hemisphere, wouldn't hurt to give it a try one year.

As for 2022, I think it'll be Oslo and Stockholm battling it out.

As for Beijing? I thought China would have chosen Harbin?


----------



## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

swifty78 said:


> Be interesting to see a Winter edition in the southern hemisphere, wouldn't hurt to give it a try one year.
> 
> As for 2022, I think it'll be Oslo and Stockholm battling it out.
> 
> As for Beijing? I thought China would have chosen Harbin?


Stockholm has the distance issue. It supposedly boasts good infrastructure in the city, yet would still need to build some key venues like the Ski Jump and Sliding Track, which would be better based in Ostersund or near Are, as part of a winter sports training centre.

I wouldn't be surprised if Krakow gets that 4th place instead of Stockholm, but if it is 5 bidders going through, then Lviv will be cut.


I still think that Australia would be the only country in the Southern Hemisphere that could seriously boast some clout if a country from the Southern Hemisphere were to bid for the games. New Zealand does have the slopes, but doesn't have the clout, population, or need for such mega infrastructure construction.

Canberra could potentially justify such infrastructure, using a mix of new and existing venues.

New Canberra Stadium (new): Ceremonies - 40,000
AIS Arena (existing): Ice Hockey II - 5,000
Canberra Arena (new): Figure Skating, Short Track - 12,000
Ice Hockey Arena (temporary): Ice Hockey I - 10,000
AIS Speed Skating Oval (new): Speed Skating - 6,000

Thredbo Ski Jump (new): Ski Jumping/Nordic Combined - 20,000
Thredbo Sliding Centre (new): Bobsleigh/Luge/Skeleton - 12,000
Thredbo Arena (new): Curling - 4,000
Perisher Valley Biathlon Centre (new/existing): Biathlon/Cross Country Skiing - 12,000

Perisher Valley Ski Resort (existing): Men's/Women's Slalom events (except Giant Slalom) - 10,000
Blue Cow Ski Resort (existing): Snowboard and Snowboard Halfpipe - 10,000 and 6,000
Guthega Ski Resort (new/existing): Freestyle Skiing Moguls and Aerials - 10,000 
Thredbo Ski Resort (existing): Men's/Women's Downhill events - 20,000

The Main Media Centre would be based in Canberra and be that new exhibition building idea which can host major events like the G20 Summit. It will be at least 50,000sqm overall.

Athletes will be housed in both the mountain region and in Canberra in 2 Olympic Villages. Media will be housed in Canberra, with a day village located in Thredbo.

This might work, we'll just have to see if Australia really wants the Winter Olympics. April is highly unlikely, even if you were to propose using artificial snow. You'd probably have to convince the IOC to have in July, with Paralympics in August, where September-October and March-April prior to the Olympics becomes the off season for Northern Hemisphere athletes. June will become the warm up month in Australia as the lead up to the Olympics.

You simply can't have adequate snow where the climate doesn't allow for it. So you convince the IOC and International Federations to change the sporting season just for once to accommodate a games.


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## NickABQ (Jun 6, 2007)

^^ Lord David for Winter Olympics Canberra Planner!! :cheers:


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

It was announced on today, 17 January 2014, that Stockholm, the capital of Sweden, has opted out of the bidding process for the 2022 Olympic Winter Games. The news was confirmed by Stockholm's ruling Moderate party, who said that arranging a Winter Olympics would always mean a big investment in new sports facilities which there will usually be no need for after the Olympics have been held.


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## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

Damn 

Guessing Oslo could be the favourite now tho having a soft spot for Krakow


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## Oleg84 (Feb 21, 2010)

Hope for Lviv


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## dande (Jan 28, 2005)

Jim856796 said:


> It was announced on today, 17 January 2014, that Stockholm, the capital of Sweden, has opted out of the bidding process for the 2022 Olympic Winter Games. The news was confirmed by Stockholm's ruling Moderate party, who said that arranging a Winter Olympics would always mean a big investment in new sports facilities which there will usually be no need for after the Olympics have been held.


They didn´t opt out, they are still in the running. What happened is that most of the ruling parties have declared that they don´t support the bid. Swedish olympic commitee is pretty much alone in the battle.


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## kaqla dougfa (Jan 26, 2013)

*Logo of Lviv’s application for the Winter Olympics*










*Other variants that have not won*

























> Vice Prime Minister Olexandr Vilkul and Ukrainian NOC President Sergey Bubka presented the logo of Lviv’s application for the Winter Olympics and Paralympics in 2022. The presentation took place during a ceremony of sending the Olympic team of Ukraine to participate in the XXII Olympic Winter Games.
> "The Logo that will represent Lviv and Ukraine to the world had not been chosen in the offices. Nearly 60 thousand Ukrainians took part in its selection. Voting lasted from January 13 to January 26 at the specially created web-site www.lviv2022.in.ua where the Ukrainians could not only to see all four variants of the logos, but also to vote for one of them. More than 32 thousand Ukrainians had voted for the logo that won," Olexandr Vilkul said.
> "Olympic ambitions of Ukraine are evident not only in the pursuit of our athletes to victory at the Winter Olympics in Sochi, but also in the desire to hold such sport event in Ukraine. After all that is - a unique way to raise the sport level of the state, stimulate the economy, tourism and improve the international image of the country," Ukrainian NOC President Sergey Bubka said.
> Director General of Application Committee Lviv 2022 Serhiy Goncharov said that "a very tough fight in choosing the winning city by the IOC lasts. We have very serious competitors. For the preparation of the bid, we have attracted the world's best experts." He said that according to experts, Ukraine prepares application file at a high level.
> ...


http://www.kmu.gov.ua/control/en/publish/article?art_id=247014014&cat_id=244314975

*LVIV is a city in western Ukraine*. Population is 760 thousand people. (Ukrainians 88%, Russians 9%, Poles 1%)
Lviv was founded in 1256 by Ruthenian (Ukrainian) King Danylo Halytskyi and named in honour of his son, Lev. The historical heart of Lviv with its old buildings and cobblestone roads has survived World War II and ensuing Soviet presence largely unscathed. Lviv belonged to the Crown of the Kingdom of Poland 1349–1772, the Austrian Empire 1772–1918 and the Second Polish Republic. Lviv history is as colorful and amazing as a city itself. It is filled with interesting events and outstanding figures. While being a part of different countries, Lviv borrowed some parts of culture, later on it transformed not only to an architectural gem, but also to the modern capital of scientific, spiritual and artistic life. On December 5, 1998, Lviv’s historic center was added to the *UNESCO World Heritage List*. 
Lviv is an important education centre of Ukraine (59 higher education institutions,including 12 universities and 8 academies) and city is one of largest Ukraine's exporter of software, information technology. 

Lviv also is known as a center of art, literature, music and theatre. Nowadays, the indisputable evidences of the city cultural richness is a big number of theaters, concert halls, creative unions, and also high number of many artistic activities. Temples, frescos, paintings, traditions, feasts, festivals – all these are the heirdom of the past and the product of the present geniuses, which can be felt only in Lviv... 

*Few pics from Lviv*

























































































more http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1455033
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1603389

Lviv Danylo Halytskyi International Airport 

















http://repetylo.org.ua/evro-2012/aeroport-lviv-vidkryto

Ukrainian Carpathians:cheers:




































www.misto-market.com.ua
www.karpaty-tour.com
http://anton-petrus.livejournal.com/


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## wojtek354 (Aug 3, 2013)

liviv after maidan dont have any chances


----------



## Gadiri (Oct 30, 2009)

*Winter Olympic games in Africa ?! 
*


*Marrakech / Oukaimeden (3200m - 70 km from Marrakech)*


*1- Marrakech *









FB





































*Menara Garden, Marrakech*










http://www.flickr.com/photos/sergioo/3343261617/

*Djemaa el Fna in Marrakech
*









http://www.flickr.com/photos/fibia/4414858740/



*Olympic stadium during last FIFA World Clubs Cup *

MARRAKECH - Stade de Marrakech (45,240)


FIFA




















_Getty Images_
http://www.fifa.com/clubworldcup/photo/photolist.html#2249255


*Highway *






































*Airport extension to 9 millions pax under construction *

T1 : 4 millions 








































*Railway station *








































*2- Oukaimeden - 3200m*









http://www.maroc-loisirs.com/wp-content/themes/directorypress/thumbs/telesiege_oukaimeden.jpg



















http://www.maroc-loisirs.com/oukaimeden/

1 télésiège et 5 téléskis. 









Sommet à presque 3300 m. 





http://www.skipass.com/forums/enmontagne/direct/ailleurs/sujet-65554.html

Project to developp station (there are hotels and others 5* & 4* to come) with the most high golf of the world 







*Good points :*
*- 71 000 touristics beds *(more than Roma for example) ^^
- olympic stadium ready
- airport extension under construction & Open Sky agreement with Europe (Easujet, Ryanait, Vueling, Norwegiand air shuttle, Transavia ... for low-cost Air France, Iberia, Swiss and others classical companies ...)
- railway to Casablanca under construction for a 2nd track and 60 trains per day
- BRT system in construction
- olympic village easly convertible in new neighborhood because of the high housing ask



> *Morocco’s Oukaimeden ranks among the world’s top 100 ski resorts​*
> The Oukaimeden ski resort, located about 80 kilometers from Marrakech, Morocco, *has been ranked among the top 100 resorts in the world by the American channel CNN.*
> 
> Ahead of some famous stations for winter sports in the world like Saulire, Three Valleys in France, and The Back Corries, Nevis Range in Scotland, the Moroccan ski resort came in the* 86th position.*
> ...


http://www.moroccoworldnews.com/201...n-ranks-among-the-worlds-top-100-ski-resorts/



Bad points :
- poor sport infrastructure 
- road enlargment project between Marrakech and Oukaimeden still not yet done. 2nd road by Asni should be also enlarged.


*My idea 
*

*1 - Marrakech*

What is ready:
- The Olympic Stadium is already there. 42,000 seats is enough. This is already a big bill less.

But the main problem remains the rooms covered . Take the example of Sochi.

Sustainable amenity :
- For hockey, 12,000 seats.
- Figure skating and speed skating short track , 12 000 places .
- Olympic Village housing converts thereafter or touristic station Biladi 

Temporary infrastructure ( Marrakech )
- For hocket , 7000 places but removable.
- Speed ​​Skating ( ring over 400m ) you can convert the place into a palace of exhibitions ( MICE vocation of the city ) or use the annex stadium of as it is excavated . Add stands is easy.



*Oukaimeden and surrounding massifs*


Sustainable Infrastructure:
- Bobsleigh / Luge / Skeleton .
- Ski jumping 90m and 120m . Check excavated area with 15 000 seats.
- 2nd Olympic Village station converts in touristic station 


Olympic villages :

*An exemple in Ifrane (near Fez) of a touristic station for moroccans (no more 35eu per day and small flat with kitcheen) that could be olympic village in city and in mountains.*









http://www.cmkd-morocco.com/fr/le-groupe-cmkd/nos-objectifs.html









http://www.smit.gov.ma/nos-programmes/tourisme-interne/station-d-ifrane









That's for my small presentation


----------



## Its AlL gUUd (Jan 24, 2006)

Marrakech would be something amazing and the first in Africa, hope they make it happen!


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Nope. The Winters have already had their "muslim host city" quota - Sarajevo 1984. If it will happen again, it will probably be Baku or Almaty.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Knitemplar said:


> Nope. The Winters have already had their "muslim host city" quota - Sarajevo 1984. If it will happen again, it will probably be Baku or Almaty.


There is no 'quota' based on predominant religious denomination. Choice of host city has nothing to do with religion.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

/\/\ Don't take everything sooooo literally.


----------



## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

swifty78 said:


> Damn
> 
> Guessing Oslo could be the favourite now tho having a soft spot for Krakow


Oslo was/is always the favorite, provided that they don't bail out too.

Stockholm was never the favorite. The distance to Are was too great. Bailing out early was clearly an excuse to avoid spending needless money on a bid book etc, as well as using the whole cost issue as a cover from the real issue of Are being too far.


----------



## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

dande said:


> They didn´t opt out, they are still in the running. What happened is that most of the ruling parties have declared that they don´t support the bid. Swedish olympic commitee is pretty much alone in the battle.


Alone at what? The Stockholm bid is finished. The city has opted not to bid. An if the NOC were to go alone, it would most certainly not win. You can't expect to win an Olympics without government support at all levels, even if the games were unlikely wholly privately financed. You need the government there to provide security, availability of land for temporary/permanent works, additional funds for potential cost overruns, etc.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Its AlL gUUd said:


> Marrakech would be something amazing and the first in Africa, hope they make it happen!


There will be no Winter Olympics in Africa anytime soon, especially given that they are yet to host a Summer One.

Should Durban or any other South African city (including Morocco's own Casablanca) bid for 2024 and win, that will surely spell doom for a 2026 African Winter Olympics.

I expect a Winter Olympics in the Southern Hemisphere first before any African one, even if it is in the north, where it could match the Northern Hemisphere's winter season.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Knitemplar said:


> Don't take everything sooooo literally.


You're far too flippant with your comments. Comments like that have no purpose other than to get under people's skin and piss people off.


----------



## JorgeGt (Apr 4, 2013)

Ok ok any potential host should be in the 2026 perhaps... Anyways, that Moroccoan bid would be pretty interesting  I didn't knew they has ski resorts. 

I would love to see Lviv, but perhaps their chances are gone with riots in Kiev. I'm rooting for Krakow now...


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## egyten (Feb 10, 2014)

Santiago.


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## dande (Jan 28, 2005)

I think if we are to hold the games in the southern hemisphere then athletes from those countries must get better. Go from exotic to real competitor.


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## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

Poland has been doing very well in Sochi, perhaps that could boost their chances for Krakow?


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

dande said:


> I think if we are to hold the games in the southern hemisphere then athletes from those countries must get better. Go from exotic to real competitor.


I can only see Australia as the first time hosts, using Canberra. The venues built there would have a far greater legacy than Santiago.


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## ufonut (Jul 24, 2007)

swifty78 said:


> Poland has been doing very well in Sochi, perhaps that could boost their chances for Krakow?


I dont think it matters as much as having some support on the inside like Oslo.

Krakow by Tomeyk


----------



## Boriska (Apr 9, 2011)

I'm hoping for Oslo too :yes:


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## dande (Jan 28, 2005)

Unless they find alternative location for downhill/SG there won´t be any olympics in Germany (Munich). They have been power house of winter olympics for decades now. Germanic part of the alps hasn´t had the games since 1976. It´s long overdue. Scandinavia should get the games again soon, maybe already 2022.


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## TEBC (Dec 26, 2004)

dande said:


> Unless they find alternative location for downhill/SG there won´t be any olympics in Germany (Munich). They have been power house of winter olympics for decades now. Germanic part of the alps hasn´t had the games since 1976. It´s long overdue. Scandinavia should get the games again soon, maybe already 2022.


Oslo is the favorite and will be nice to see a great city like it host it again, but i would love to see new scandinavian countries host it like Sweden and Finland.


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## TEBC (Dec 26, 2004)

Of the great olympics powers that already hosted summer but has yet to organize a WG: Sweden Finland China Spain Australia South Korea will make their debut and Russia did now.


And the cities i would love to see hosting it:

Anchorage
Almaty
Barcelona
Munich
Ostresund or Stocoholm
Tampere or Latiki
Harbin
Denver
Montreal or Quebec
Geneve
Salzburg


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## Snorky33 (Oct 23, 2009)

Lord David said:


> I can only see Australia as the first time hosts, using Canberra. The venues built there would have a far greater legacy than Santiago.


Main problem for Canberra & Australia as a whole it hasn't got any one of these that a high enough...









Photo is Queenstown, New Zealand


----------



## dande (Jan 28, 2005)

Winter games in Australia would be huge gamble regarding snow conditions. I´m not sure IOC wants to roll the dice.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

^^ What about Sochi and it's conditions? They're using artificial snow like everyone else nowadays. It's all a matter of convincing the IOC to change the dates.

As for Snorky33's remark. You have Thredbo. Artificially heightening the existing 672 meter drop by 128 meters. Make a new piste/slope/run for Men's Downhill/Alpine events. Do some minor excavating/forest clearing in the valley below to add a finishing area and additional infrastructure.

Extend the Ski Tube to Thredbo (underground) and all the way to Canberra. Make it a double track setup if possible. Perisher Valley, Bullocks Flat and Thredbo could easily be the clusters which have 10,000 rooms of accommodation overall (not including the Alpine Athlete's Village). This should supplement an overall 30,000+ accommodation plan (including a media village) in Canberra.

Like I said earlier, it might work, but the main goal would be to convince the IOC and world to change the dates. Have it held in August/September, just after the World Cup.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

^^ What about Sochi and it's conditions? They're using artificial snow like everyone else nowadays. It's all a matter of convincing the IOC to change the dates.

As for Snorky33's remark. You have Thredbo. Artificially heightening the existing 672 meter drop by 128 meters. Make a new piste/slope/run for Men's Downhill/Alpine events. Do some minor excavating/forest clearing in the valley below to add a finishing area and additional infrastructure.

Extend the Ski Tube to Thredbo (underground) and all the way to Canberra. Make it a double track setup if possible. Perisher Valley, Bullocks Flat and Thredbo could easily be the clusters which have 10,000 rooms of accommodation overall (not including the Alpine Athlete's Village). This should supplement an overall 30,000+ accommodation plan (including a media village) in Canberra.

Like I said earlier, it might work, but the main goal would be to convince the IOC and world to change the dates. Have it held in August/September, just after the World Cup.


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## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

I thought the Middle of July would be the best bet?


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

That might conflict with any World Cup. so you move it until after the WC.


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## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

Ah didn't think of that one!


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## dande (Jan 28, 2005)

Lord David said:


> ^^ What about Sochi and it's conditions? They're using artificial snow like everyone else nowadays. It's all a matter of convincing the IOC to change the dates.
> 
> As for Snorky33's remark. You have Thredbo. Artificially heightening the existing 672 meter drop by 128 meters. Make a new piste/slope/run for Men's Downhill/Alpine events. Do some minor excavating/forest clearing in the valley below to add a finishing area and additional infrastructure.
> 
> ...


You can´t compare Sotchi to Australian ski facilities. It´s just to uncertain, unless science comes up with artificial snow that can sustain 10C for several days. And what about cross country and biathlon events. You´d have to build they really up high in the mountains. The way global warming is going at the moment 30 years from now snow could be rarity down under.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

^^ You can compare Sochi. It's a close to subtropical climate, which is apparent, even during winter time. They had to use artificial snow during the Games and snow from cold storage.

With the case for Australia, a Games held in August should be sufficiently cold enough and even if global warming does make the Games warmer, the use of artificial snow (already well in use due to warmer winters) will be utilized.

The main issue is always going to be to convince the IOC to change the dates. Weather is not an issue if the Games are proposed to be held in August.


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## Snorky33 (Oct 23, 2009)

New Zealand will host the Winter Olympics one day in the future approx in 15-25 years from now? (give the IOC time to warm to the idea) no rush time to develop all the infrastructure. Queenstown's small international airport would at first need to be doubled in size at least (make that tripled) the village can be built right in the middle of town so it will become a future hotel, those big venues needed for ice hockey, skating etc can be temporary built over near the airport (heaps of land there) all the alpine. nordic & freestyle events shared between Queenstown & Wanaka. Imagine Queenstown one of the most beautiful places on the planet hosting a Winter Olympic Games..."All good things to those who wait"


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## dande (Jan 28, 2005)

Two different worlds mate, let it go. Besides winter games down under would force world cup changes season before and after. 
You can hope for football world cup, there is your big chance.


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

^^Well, I don't think Beijing's Winter Olympic bid is compact, either. And Oslo is planning to hold some events in Lillehammer.


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## Bartek Suchy (May 17, 2009)

Unfortunately neither Cracow nor Zakopane will bid. Polish bid has been withdrawed definetely.

70% of voters in poll was against bidding. Sadly, unnecessary spendings of Olympic bidding comitee in Cracow was the main reason of withdrawal. Comitee wasn't enought financially transparent to be trustworthy. Till now, I have voted for Cracow but now my vote goes to Oslo.


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## Manitopiaaa (Mar 6, 2006)

1772 said:


> Are we going to guess how many times people (americans) are going to confuse Pyeongchang with Pyongyang?


Yes, because all Americans are idiots. We're all so stupid that you had to point us out personally. Because Americans have never contributed anything of value to the world. hno:


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Jim856796 said:


> ^^Well, I don't think Beijing's Winter Olympic bid is compact, either. And Oslo is planning to hold some events in Lillehammer.


Well Oslo is doing so for obvious reasons. The Sliding track is there as is the main skiing slopes. The fact that Lillehammer proved that going to and from Oslo in 1994 wasn't an issue, it shouldn't be an issue now or in 2022.

It's simply a matter if the Norwegians want the games.


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## WFlnsider (Dec 18, 2013)

Finally:

*Ukraine's Lviv Withdraws Bid for 2022 Winter Games*

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/ukraines-lviv-withdraws-bid-2022-winter-games-24360765


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

So, I guess at this point, Almaty gets the Games, or f**k everything.


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## Manitopiaaa (Mar 6, 2006)

How embarrassing for the IOC. At this point I think even the IOC would settle for Qatar hosting the Winter Games


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## -Corey- (Jul 8, 2005)

So that's why i hope they don't give the 2026 to an undeserving country like South Africa, just to please Africa...


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

I don't think South Africa will be hosting a Winter Olympics any time soon 

But, typos aside, let's wait and see what sort of plan Durban comes up with first before declaring them "undeserving".


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## -Corey- (Jul 8, 2005)

I said 2026... as they are NOT biding for the 2022 Games lol.


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## JorgeGt (Apr 4, 2013)

Almaty 2022 will be, ladies and gentlemen...


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

Can a city be too big to host a Winter Olympics?

Sure, cities/metropolitan areas with a population of 4 million or more usually shoot for the Summer Olympics, but the Beijing area has a population of ~21 million. So far, the most populous city/metro area ever to host a Winter Olympics was Vancouver, Canada (in 2010), with a population of 2.4 million. For comparison's sake, Almaty has a population of 1.5 million, and the Oslo metro area's population is roughly the same as Almaty's.


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## Manitopiaaa (Mar 6, 2006)

Winter climate and population are negatively correlated so that's why the places best able to host a Winter Olympics are smaller. But I don't see why Beijing can't have satellite cities hosting certain sports that aren't viable in Beijing proper.


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

"...the places best able to host a Winter Olympics are smaller."

I don't think any city/urban area under a 200,000 population can really afford to host a Winter Olympics after Sochi (which has a ~350,000 population) spent US$50+ billion on venues and infrastructure improvements for this year's (2014's) Winter Olympics.

"I don't see why Beijing can't have satellite cities hosting certain sports that aren't viable in Beijing proper."

As stated before, it's the satellite cities (notably Zhangjiakou) that would host the snow events, while it is the ice events that would be viable within the Beijing area.


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## Lydon (Sep 7, 2007)

-Corey- said:


> So that's why i hope they don't give the 2026 to an undeserving country like South Africa, just to please Africa...


SA hosting a _Winter Olympics_? Alrighty then :lol:


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## -Corey- (Jul 8, 2005)

re-read...


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## LuisClaudio (Sep 13, 2011)

BARILOCHE, ARGENTINA!!!!


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

If Beijing were chosen to host a future Winter Olympics, would it be considered the "biggest Winter Olympics of all time", just because Beijing's planned WOG venue capacities are fairly large in comparison to other WOG host cities' venues?

Ceremonies venue: 91,000
Figure Skating/Short Track venue: 17,000
Ice Hockey venue 1: 18,000
Ice Hockey venue 2: 18,000
Curling venue: 8,000

Also, I would imagine Beijing's proposed Speed skating oval being a 16 to 20,000 capacity.


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## WFlnsider (Dec 18, 2013)

> *Oslo, Almaty and Beijing announced as 2022 Winter Olympics candidates*
> 
> Oslo, Almaty and Beijing have been confirmed by the International Olympic Committee as the official candidates to host the 2022 Winter Olympic Games.
> 
> ...


http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jul/07/oslo-almaty-beijing-2022-winter-olympics

I support Almaty!


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## Blackhavvk (Dec 23, 2013)

I think all the candidates are very good. I'll be happy to win any of them.


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## Nubian_Warrior (Nov 14, 2008)

sadly Seattle and Vladivostok never put forward any plans to host the event!


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## Manitopiaaa (Mar 6, 2006)

Jim856796 said:


> "...the places best able to host a Winter Olympics are smaller."
> 
> I don't think any city/urban area under a 200,000 population can really afford to host a Winter Olympics after Sochi (which has a ~350,000 population) spent US$50+ billion on venues and infrastructure improvements for this year's (2014's) Winter Olympics.
> 
> ...


Of course they can. Olympics are increasingly the work of national governments and are funded, planned and executed at the federal level. Nobody thinks the municipality of Zakopane has $20bn just lying around. Sochi didn't spend a dime on the Olympics, Moscow did.


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## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

Hmmm outta 3 I would probably guess Oslo as IOC might want a European host after 2018-20 in East Asia? Such a shame Stockholm and Krakow pulled out as they would of been great


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## 1772 (Aug 18, 2009)

I still think Nice would be the best candidate. Abundance of empty hotel rooms, most of the infrastructure set and ready, middle of Europe.


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## dande (Jan 28, 2005)

German speaking parts of Alps should host but since Garmish opted out we don´t have any viable candidates. Maybe Salzburg or Innsbruck.


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## Sakesin (Dec 2, 2012)

*Countdown 1 year.*


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## Milano_Olympic_City_ (Jul 26, 2014)

*Oslo 2022 Olympic Bid Support Slips*

Oslo daily VG reports that according to opinion polls published Thursday, support for Oslo's bid for the 2022 Winter Olympic Games has slipped.
According to the poll, 56 per cent of the 1,020 people surveyed by telephone Wednesday opposed hosting the Games, while 30 per cent were in favour. The remaining 13.5 per cent were undecided. The margin of error in the InFact Norge poll was three percentage points. 
A similar poll last year commissioned by VG said 45 per cent favoured hosting the 2022 Winter Games in Oslo. 
The head of Oslo's bid committee, Eli Grimsby, said two polls they commissioned earlier in August showed 32 per cent and 34.5 per cent favoured hosting the Games, while 48 to 52 per cent were opposed. He said, "we see there is a difference, support in the VG poll is somewhat lower for the yes side". 
Oslo has not yet received final backing from the Norwegian government.


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## Milano_Olympic_City_ (Jul 26, 2014)

*Public support for Oslo 2022 bid continues to dwindle, reveal polls* 

*Support for the Oslo 2022 Winter Olympic and Paralympic bid has hit an all time low, according to two new independent public opinion polls.

*A survey conducted by Norwegian newspaper _Bergens Tidende_ revealed that just 26 per cent of those asked are in favour of hosting the Games and a _VG_ poll showed that 30 per cent would welcome the event, which is expected to cost at least NOK35 billion (£3 billion/$6 billion/€4 billion).

_VG_ also reported that 56 per cent of the 1,020 people asked actively opposed hosting the Games, while the remaining 14 per cent were undecided.

The figures show a dramatic decline in public support for the bid, which has yet to receive full backing from the Norwegian Government, with a similar poll commissioned by _VG_ a year ago indicating that 45 per cent favoured bringing the Olympics back to Norway for the first time since Lillehammer 1994 and Oslo for the first time since 1952.

Oslo 2022 has, however, commissioned two polls itself this month that show greater support for the Games, it claims. 

One revealed that 32 per cent of respondents were in favour of hosting the Winter Olympics and Paralympics, while another said as much as 34.5 per cent support them.

The figures for those opposed stood at 48 per cent and 52 per cent.

"We see there is a difference, support in the _VG_ poll is somewhat lower for the yes-side," Oslo 2022 chief executive Eli Grimsby told _VG_.

She also exclusively told _insidethegames_ last month that she is "very optimistic" that the bid will receive Government support - a final decision about which is expected to be announced in October or November.

Norway's Culture Minister Thorhild Widvey, from the Conservatives, continues to promote the project but the Conservative Progress Party, which controls the Finance Ministry, has consistently opposed hosting an Olympics, claiming the money would be much better spent on nursing homes, roads, schools and in other sectors.

Meanwhile, Labour Party politician and _Dagsavisen_ political editor Arne Strand has said that Finance Minister Siv Jensen would have to resign if the Government chooses to provide guarantees for Oslo 2022.

Oslo is currently up against China's capital Beijing and the Kazakhstani city of Almaty in the bid race for the 2022 Games.

The International Olympic Committee is due to elect the host city on July 31 next year during its Session in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.


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## TEBC (Dec 26, 2004)

Go Almaty


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## foxmulder (Dec 1, 2007)

Among these three, I would prefer Beijing/Zhangjiakou.

All three would be nice. Norway will be nice because of its heritage in winter sports but this also makes it kind of boring choice, Almaty will be a first so that can be interesting and Beijing will be nicest looking. IMHO, we have good choices.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Almaty would be the most compact of the three.

If it weren't for such a lopsided bid race, I wish Almaty actually put some effort in their bid. Their applicant bid book looked like a high school class project. Perhaps they'll do better with their candidate books.

Beijing is an anomaly. The country could do with the specific sporting venues for the likes of ski jumping and sliding sports and the use of 2008 indoor venues makes for a good legacy with 2008 Olympic venues, but such a Games would be seen as less grand than 2008. Not to mention that these Games could easily spiral out of control like 2008 or even Sochi. I'd much rather see a Harbin Games, a city in China claimed to be the ice capital of the nation.

Oslo is the safe choice, and their bid is far logical now that they've included 1994 Lillehammer venues (thus not needing to build new arenas in Oslo), but with low support, I fear that they will bail out soon.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Oslo 2022 virtually dead after Norway's Conservative Party choose not to support it. 

So it'll either be China or Kazakhstan hosting these Games.


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## Archbishop (Aug 18, 2009)

http://deadspin.com/nobody-wants-to...source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow


> Norway's ruling party just voted against funding Oslo's 2022 Winter Olympics bid, essentially forcing the city to drop out of the race. It's just the latest in a long series of cities and countries who have given an emphatic "no" to hosting the Olympic quagmire.
> 
> 
> In a non-binding referendum in February, 55.9 percent of Norwegians said they didn't want the Games. "There must be major changes in the IOC before I can help to support an Olympic application," said Tromsø Mayor Jens Johan Hjort.
> ...


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## Hansadyret (Jun 22, 2008)

As a Norwegian i'm glad the Oslo bid was stopped. I Think winter sport nations like Germany, Sweden, Austria, Switzerland, Finland should host before we host again.


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

Opposition will certainly and always derail an Olympic bid. It's not much of a surprise that Oslo's Olympic bid was dropped.


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## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

Bugger


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## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

Isn't the IOC planning on doing something to make sure potential host cities don't spend too much? More temp venues etc?


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## Bannor (Jul 23, 2011)

Also as a norwegian, I'm very grateful that they dropped the bid. IOC has acted like teenagers living in a childs world in all of this.

And the cost is also rediculous. Just look at the cost for Brazil's soccer world cup and how much FIFA took. IOC and the Olympics are just the same. They have the same sponsorship deals, and the host allways loose out.

If any country wants to host these events with the deals they get from it as of today, they must be morons!

The question now is, who the biggest moron is out of China or Kazakhstan.

I would guess Kazakhstan gets it just because South Korea and Japan are hosting the 18 and 20 olympics, and 3 in a row to the same area of the world would be a bit strange.

When that is said, I do think Beijing has the better bid...


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## GunnerJacket (Jan 25, 2008)

swifty78 said:


> Isn't the IOC planning on doing something to make sure potential host cities don't spend too much? More temp venues etc?


:lol::hahaha::hilarious

. . . .

Another good, simple article about what's happening.

Why no one wants to host the 2022 Olympics



> The IOC has billions of dollars laying around and billions more coming because to most people the Olympics is just a television show and the ratings are so high that the broadcast rights will never go down. The IOC doesn't pay the athletes. It doesn't share revenue with host countries. It doesn't pay for countries to send their athletes. It doesn't lay out any construction or capital costs. It doesn't pay taxes.
> 
> It basically holds caviar rich meetings in five star hotels in the Alps before calling it a day. That and conduct weak investigations into corruption charges of the bidding process, of course. "No evidence uncovered" is on a win streak.
> 
> It's a heck of a racket. Only FIFA does it better.


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## WesTexas (Aug 20, 2011)

What i think is ridiculous is that the IOC is making all these special demands for how their committee members should be treated during the olympics. Like you have this collection of people who think they are more important than they really are and once every 2 years they feel the need to be treated like kings of the world. screw them. The olympics is starting to get carried away.


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## little universe (Jan 3, 2008)

Hamzawi said:


> Also Beijing isn't a 'winter' city.


^^

hno:hno:hno:

How do you define a 'winter' city? It seems you are very prone to Western Media's distortion about Beijing (I just heard from the ABC News (Australia) says that Beijing is lack of winter condition...renders me speechless :lol. 

As a matter of fact, *Beijing is colder than Toronto and New York City during winter times*.

Pls check the climate data tables extracted from the Wikipedia:



*Toronto*









https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto#Climate



*New York City *









https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City#Climate





*Beijing*









https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing#Climate








​


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## little universe (Jan 3, 2008)

*Summer Palace in Snow (Photos were taken in Early March) *



Di Hòa Viên by Cát Đằng, on Flickr


Di Hòa Viên by Cát Đằng, on Flickr


Di Hòa Viên by Cát Đằng, on Flickr










​


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## Folls (Jul 15, 2012)

I thought Almaty would get this. Kazakhstan is quite unknown in the western world and the Olympics could give them more visibility. Also, the Beijing olympic plan puts the snow events far from the city, witch seems to become a trend as the event grows and medium sized snow cities won't be able to host anymore.


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## little universe (Jan 3, 2008)

*The Frozen Beihai Park Lake (A Former Imperial Garden next to the Forbidden City)*
photos were taken in February




Beijing: The white Pagoda by Karl von Moller, on Flickr


Beijing: Frozen serenity by Karl von Moller, on Flickr











​


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## masterpaul (Jun 27, 2007)

Where are the ski slopes etc? We all know Beijing is cold enough.


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## mw123 (Oct 23, 2009)

little universe said:


> How do you define a 'winter' city? It seems you are very prone to Western Media's distortion about Beijing (I just heard from the ABC News (Australia) says that Beijing is lack of winter condition...renders me speechless :lol.


I was hoping for Beijing to win as I'm excited to see them build the infrastructure and to see Winter sports develop in China (there's a lot of potential). We all know it's cold enough however there's no denying that there is a lack of natural snow in and around Beijing.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

Snow is indeed rare in Beijing, and Toronto gets way more snow.


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## GTR66 (Aug 3, 2010)

Snow is rare in Beijing because the snow is all black from the pollution and when the sun touches it. It melts because blackness absorbs more heat faster.


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## Dan Caumo (Jul 2, 2007)

GTR66 said:


> Snow is rare in Beijing because the snow is all black from the pollution and when the sun touches it. It melts because blackness absorbs more heat faster.


It's not true. Snow is rare in Beijing because winter is their driest season. Check the average precipitation days data and you will see their wetter season is the summer.


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## GunnerJacket (Jan 25, 2008)

Hamzawi said:


> bad choice. You cannot have 3 consecutive Olympic games in the same geographic region (East Asia).


IOC was kinda handcuffed on this one, even if they're the ones who handcuffed themselves. Speaks volumes about how much largesse has been introduced into these events. Let's hope the IOC is wise enough to pare down the size of both games so a greater variety of cities are capable of hosting in the future.


In the meantime, good luck to Beijing.


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## TEBC (Dec 26, 2004)

Dan Caumo said:


> It's not true. Snow is rare in Beijing because winter is their driest season. Check the average precipitation days data and you will see their wetter season is the summer.


And Winter Games without Snow its not that beautiful


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## TEBC (Dec 26, 2004)

the votes were close, 2 votes made the difference


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## TEBC (Dec 26, 2004)

http://www.businessinsider.com/beijing-olympic-mountain-venue-has-barely-any-snow-2015-7

These photos were taken between January 20 and January 23, which is two weeks before the period during which the Beijing Olympics will take place in 2022.










Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/beij...enue-has-barely-any-snow-2015-7#ixzz3hVACK1K7


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Good Luck Beijing. I didn't even know you had slopes or even snow....

For those who say....LA = "TO SOON". The IOC just choose three Asian host cities in a row and a city that last held Olympic games 7 years ago (way to go Beijing). 14 years in 2022. So....No more of that. 40 years was along time ago. I don't want to hear that argument. lol!


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## GunnerJacket (Jan 25, 2008)

redspork02 said:


> For those who say....LA = "TO SOON". ... 40 years was along time ago.


...aaaaand now I'm feeling old.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

GunnerJacket said:


> ...aaaaand now I'm feeling old.


Me too.. I was born May of 1984. lol.....


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## Hamzawi (May 20, 2015)

It may be a cold city in terms of temperature but what I meant that it is not a city where winter sports are regularly practiced.

for example New York City may have a colder climate than Sochi or even Vancouver - but Sochi or Vancouver makes a better host of the winter games is more proximate to the mountains and the winter sports 'culture'. You should get my idea by now,




little universe said:


> ^^​
> hno:hno:hno:​
> How do you define a 'winter' city? It seems you are very prone to Western Media's distortion about Beijing (I just heard from the ABC News (Australia) says that Beijing is lack of winter condition...renders me speechless :lol.​
> As a matter of fact, *Beijing is colder than Toronto and New York City during winter times*.​
> ...


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## city_thing (May 25, 2006)

redspork02 said:


> Good Luck Beijing. I didn't even know you had slopes or even snow....
> 
> For those who say....LA = "TO SOON". The IOC just choose three Asian host cities in a row and a city that last held Olympic games 7 years ago (way to go Beijing). 14 years in 2022. So....No more of that. 40 years was along time ago. I don't want to hear that argument. lol!


Beijing doesn't have slopes and it doesn't snow that often, they're building a high speed train line to the north where the slopes are. If that's the case, even Melbourne could host the games just by building a train line to the ski fields to the north. The IOC wasn't left with many options. A lot of cities pulled out from bidding for the olympics, they're seen as too expensive and a drain on public money. Although Sochi cost $50bn, largely due to corruption, cheaper games still aren't going to be unpopular with the voting public, meaning un-democratic places have a better chance of hosting as they just tell the public they're bidding for the games and it doesn't matter about winning elections. Oslo withdrew from this bid, and Boston just dropped its summer olympic bid because it was costly and unpopular. LA did save the games once before though, it'd be interesting to see what they could do with them again.

Anyway, good luck Beijing. I doubt we'll see the major construction work of the 2008 games, but I'm sure they'll put on a good show.


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## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

I did read somewhere that Stockholm regretted pulling out of the race after they found out about the new IOC 2020 reforms that stops large scale spending on venues etc and have more temporary structures put in place and lasting legacies. They would have got it no doubt had they chosen not to exit the bid


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*Olympics-China media says Beijing can handle any problem for Winter Games*
_Excerpt_ 

BEIJING, Aug 1 (Reuters) - Chinese state-run media on Saturday lauded the decision to award Beijing the 2022 Winter Olympics, saying the city could handle any problem thrown at it and would aim to put on a "big party".

Beijing, which will host the event with the nearby city of Zhangjiakou, had been the favourite to win the Games ahead of Kazakhstan's Almaty at the IOC selection meeting in Kuala Lumpur on Friday.

While Beijing hosted the 2008 Summer Games to wide acclaim, its bid for the lower profile Winter Games had been dogged by concerns over a number of issues including the city's notorious smog problem, a lack of snow and its poor human rights record.

The overseas edition of the ruling Communist Party's official People's Daily said the world could breath easy over any worries it might have about Beijing's ability to hold the large-scale event.

"In China, every promise will be fully realised," the paper wrote in a front page commentary.

"In our preparation work, though all sorts of difficulties will present themselves, like traffic or environmental problems, Beijing will redouble its efforts to overcome them."

China is now the world's second largest economy, with a stable political system, harmonious society and a happy populous, even if it is not a great winter sports power, it added.

"But it's an undisputed fact that more and more Chinese love winter sports," it said.

The Global Times, a popular and influential tabloid published by the People's Daily, said China could be more relaxed this time around, compared with 2008.

"This time when we host the Winter Games, we may be able to be more relaxed, focusing on the beauty of the sports instead of labouring ourselves in ensuring a perfect event. We can try to make the 2022 Games a big party," it said in a editorial.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Sportsfan said:


> Give up on Lake Placid 2026. NEVER. GONNA. HAPPEN.


Never? What, with less and less cities wanting to host, the IOC would probably end up one day begging for the likes of Lake Placid to host again.


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## Sportsfan (Jul 26, 2009)

Lord David said:


> Never? What, with less and less cities wanting to host, the IOC would probably end up one day begging for the likes of Lake Placid to host again.


Lake Placid is just not a viable option considering the extra infrastructure required for such an event now compared to 1980. You can't just put up some bleachers at your local Equestrian park and call it a main stadium any more. You can't just have an outdoor speed skating arena in the forecourt of your local high school any more. You can't just use a dilapidated ski jumping facility made out of scrap metal any more. You can't just make a prison into an Olympic Village any more. These days, you need an extra arena for Ice Hockey because the women play now. These days, you need an extra arena for Curling which was not required in 1980. You need thousands and thousands of hotel rooms which even the entire Adirondacks would not come anywhere close to supplying. 

Even if you only had the alpine and freestyle events at Lake Placid, the closest viable city to hold the ice events is Albany and even it is 2-3 hours away by car and there is no viable train link to transport the hundreds of thousands of international visitors between the two. There are no long term post-Games legacy requirements to justify such major transport infrastructure projects.

There will still be plenty of options available, internationally and within North America, that would be much more viable options than Lake Placid if the IOC finds itself bereft of bidding cities. And if Lake Placid is holding its breath for the IOC to beg, they're going to go pretty blue in the face, IMHO.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm only being practical and rational.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Sportsfan said:


> Lake Placid is just not a viable option considering the extra infrastructure required for such an event now compared to 1980. You can't just put up some bleachers at your local Equestrian park and call it a main stadium any more. You can't just have an outdoor speed skating arena in the forecourt of your local high school any more. You can't just use a dilapidated ski jumping facility made out of scrap metal any more. You can't just make a prison into an Olympic Village any more. These days, you need an extra arena for Ice Hockey because the women play now. These days, you need an extra arena for Curling which was not required in 1980. You need thousands and thousands of hotel rooms which even the entire Adirondacks would not come anywhere close to supplying.
> 
> Even if you only had the alpine and freestyle events at Lake Placid, the closest viable city to hold the ice events is Albany and even it is 2-3 hours away by car and there is no viable train link to transport the hundreds of thousands of international visitors between the two. There are no long term post-Games legacy requirements to justify such major transport infrastructure projects.
> 
> ...


Who said anything about bleachers at you're local equestrian park? You would be building a temporary stadium of at least 35,000 individual seats for the Olympics and Paralympics Opening and Closing Ceremonies as well as nightly medal ceremonies. It will be at the site of the Lake Placid High School athletics/sporting grounds.

Outdoor Speed Skating arena? Who said anything about that? You build a legacy indoor Speed Skating Oval and call it the Eric Heiden Speed Skating Oval.

Dilapidated Ski Jumps? The Lake Placid Ski Jumps are hardly that. They were regraded in 1994 to conform to current rules, so they are competition worthy. You just need to improve the spectator seating area and media area.

These days you need an extra Ice Hockey venue. Hello, even in 1980 they used both the new Olympic Center and the renovated the 1932 Ice Rink. Simply because back then, Figure Skating was held at the same venue as main Ice Hockey and therefore you needed 2 venues for Ice Hockey competitions, even if the Women's event didn't start until 1998.

The general idea would be to host the 2026 Olympic Winter Games in the region. You have Tupper Lake with a legacy venue (for Curling), Saranac Lake with a venue (for Ice Hockey II), Lake Placid hosting Ice Hockey I (at the Olympic Center) and Speed Skating (at a new Oval), with an expanded High School for the Main Press Center and a new temporary International Broadcast Center. The Ski Jumps at Intervale and Freestyle Skiing jumps will be used, with the existing Biathlon/Cross Country center and sliding track.

Plattsburgh can have a new arena which would be at 10,000 for Figure Skating and Short Track Speed Skating.

Alpine events will be held at Whiteface Mountain (for Men's alpine events and Freestyle Skiing) and Gore Mountain (for Women's alpine events and Snowboard).

You propose a dedicated tunnel to link Plattsburgh and Burlington, so you can use the accommodation options in Burlington and their International Airport as well. Plattsburgh will have its International Airport expanded as a legacy project.

With regards to accommodation. The media would have their own village, to allow for maximum supply for spectators. The Olympic Family and Sponsors will be allocated a reasonable chunk of available and new accommodation in available in Lake Placid. Volunteers which could easily figure up to 15,000, will be housed by locals, based around their area of operation to reduce travel time and expenses. 

Who said anything about an Olympic Village prison? It was simply a solution in 1980. The Federal Government was willing to put up the funds for an Olympic Village (which was more than secure) which would turn into a Federal correctional facility post Olympics. It cost the organizing committee of Lake Placid hardly anything with regards to the construction of this athletes village. A 2026 Village would be hardly that. You can propose a new Winter Sports University as a legacy project, which would have a village as part of its campus.

With less and less bidders wanting the Olympics (and Winter Olympics for that matter), it's time for Lake Placid to show the world again that an "Olympics in Perspective" is possible, where the core focus is the athletes. Oh and the USOC doesn't have much Winter options, Denver? Salt Lake City again? Tacky Reno?

Almaty being the only bidder for 2026, is hardly "plenty of options available". If it were Almaty vs Lake Placid, sure you might choose Almaty since their loss in 2022 and it's their 3rd bid, or you would want to return to the charming place where "miracles can happen".


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