# ITALY | Railways



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## Thorin

Not a single picture is showing.


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## New York Morning

Thorin said:


> Not a single picture is showing.


What do you mean?


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## Suburbanist

K_ said:


> I really find it odd that you are so much in favor of taxing the stupid...


It is not taxing. Train fares are not government taxes.


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## Coccodrillo

Strait of Messina ferry service: http://www.miol.it/stagniweb/Foto6.asp?File=ferry&Tipo=index&Righe=50&Col=5

List of boats: http://www.miol.it/stagniweb/ferry2.htm

All photos in two pages: http://www.miol.it/stagniweb/foto6.asp?File=ferry&InizioI=1&RigheI=50&Col=5


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## Suburbanist

Talking of Messina Strait... they continue with preliminary works on the bridge. Hopefully they will make groundbreaking of the actual pylons in 2012.


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## Coccodrillo

Is a 3.3 km bridge without intermediate pillars possible? I wonder...


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## spaziozero

The beautiful story of the railway CIVITAVECCHIA - ORTE in a video.
A railway in central Italy called "RAILWAY OF THE TWO SEAS"

http://vimeo.com/24794447


info and news: 
it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrovia_Civitavecchia-Orte
www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=45602785928

Enjoy
thank you


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## thun

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ That is, indeed, a problem. Trenitalia vending machines work great for national services, but regional ticketing is lackluster sometimes and there is a lack of machines in smaller stations.


The biggest problem is that they rarely work. I once was at Monza station (not exactly a small station) where all five or six machines were broken and the counters were closed (obviously, Trenitalia staff needs a minimum lunch break of 2 hours). :wallbash:


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## Coccodrillo

^^ That's normal. From 1997 until 2009 or so in all stations of Milan S-Bahn tunnel (except Garibaldi) there were absolutely no working machines nor counters. Also in Brescia most if not all machines are not working today.


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## GENIUS LOCI

Work in progress at Torino Porta Susa Station



RezTo said:


> Ed ecco alcune foto che hanno fatto loro:
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dreaad said:


> :cheers::cheers::cheers:
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> http://multimedia.lastampa.it/multimedia/torino/lstp/55236/
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> bello l'effetto di luce che filtra dai pannelli solari


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## spaziozero

If they are the solar panels, How much are the power kwatts of the photovoltaic panels?

Thank you


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## Simfan34

Beautiful.


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## Luli Pop

marvelous!!!


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## Galactic

spaziozero said:


> If they are the solar panels, How much are the power kwatts of the photovoltaic panels?
> 
> Thank you


765. Source


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## spaziozero

Thank You Galactic!


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## Suburbanist

*Italy high-speed rail tunnel: Fresh clashes in Alps*

From BBC News

Police have again clashed with demonstrators in the Italian Alps over the construction of a new high-speed rail link with France.

At least 30 police and carabinieri officers were injured in the clashes in the Val di Susa area, west of Turin.

A protester and a tunnel worker were also hurt, police said.

Residents fear that, despite safeguards built into the multi-billion euro project, an area of outstanding natural beauty is going to be spoilt.

Five protesters were arrested during Sunday's clashes by the police, who were pelted with stones and other objects.

Police blamed the disruption on left-wing "black bloc" extremists from Italy and neighbouring countries, AFP news agency reported.

Despite environmental objections, the Italian government is determined to press ahead with the project, which is heavily backed by EU money and is estimated to cost 15bn euros (£13bn).

Tunnelling has begun for a line from Turin to Lyon, which is expected to cut the travel time by nearly half.

=========================================

_Related pictures of the incident can be found on LA Repubblica websitehere:

If any of you also can understand Italian, you can watch the mother of all NIMBYs, a stupid, disgraceful, delusional young lady "appealing" to the riot police to support their cause "for the future of the valley" here. It's like she's living on 1968, and I wish she get sued and her professional life completely trashed forever for her nauseating role in organizing this attack on public and private property.

From numerous and politically broad Italian sources, it comes also the following:

(1) *there were many foreign protesters from Spain and Germany*, which will not suffer any impact from any tunnel excavation whatsoever, and *English was a commonly heard language* among those protesting at the police. Some of them are recognized troublemakers who have caused problems before in Italy, like in Genova.









(2) the protesters *displayed paramilitary organization, staging an assault on the work site of the exploratory tunnel*. A second, pacific protest was conducted elsewhere and went uneventful but for the usual disruption of traffic and commerce.








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(3) two days ago, *the manager of one of the constructing firms had been assaulted when he was arriving at his house by two masked man, threatened and had an arm broken*. Before such events, police had had to free him of an hostile crowd that broke in the work site.

(4) tear gas was used on the second-level of crowd management control, meaning it was thrown by the riot police at chest's height, not on the ground, so threatening was the crowd. One policeman is reported to be in critical condition_









===================================================

They closed A32 couple before to protest the new rail link









I think this has just overstepped the boundaries of anything that is acceptable. They fight in the political arena, they fight on the notoriously slow Italian courts, those thugs lost they appeals and now are resorting to violence. To ambush a manager of a construction company in his house and beat him to the point of breaking his arm is almost terrorism.

I hope the next time the riot police make some arrests and use anti-terrorism laws against those rent-a-rioters coming from Spain, Germany and other countries. As much as I despise NIMBYs and mock them, I respect their right to say what they want and protest pacifically, but this was an overstep of all boundaries. Maybe live bullets will have to be used, like in Genova, turning delusional and mislead youngsters into corpses on autopsy bags. It is sad, and I hope it doesn't come to the point, but they are just escalating violence there.

For now, there will be heightened policing in the area. There is a nearby hydro power dam which, though totally unrelated to the project, is close the site, and of course it is a major concern if those thugs get there. If they insist on such tactics, the cost of the tunnel will be heightened with permanent policing, like there are extra policing in some A3 (highway) works in Calabria - there, because of some mafiosi threats.

They just don't want the high-speed line, which will run on a massive base tunnel. Their allegations is that people are already consuming too much and travelling too much and that "people are living in houses full of stuff and void of life". Typical extremist university student-level crap.


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## hhouse

That are stupid idiots and nothing more hno:
I understand it if people protest against something with banners and so on, but that :down:

These people don't care about the project and only want to make some problems and fight against the police.


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## zaphod

I don't think they have a coherent ideology, rather traveling around and starting violent riots has become a kind of fucked up hobby for sociopaths. Nowadays anyone trying to organize a legitimate protest has to worry about the event going bad because these people are intent on ruining it.

Oh well, this tunnel will be built whether they like it or not.


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## Coccodrillo

This kind of manifestations easily attracts violent people only in search of fight with police and something to vandalize. In this case it seems that also around 300 violent people from outside Italy joined the local vandals.

The manifestation of local citizens was more calm and non violent.


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## gramercy

why dont these morons move to the infrastructure-free paradise of haiti or somalia


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## Palatinus

This tunnel at the moment is useless. It costs 22 Bilions of €, too much if we look at the cost benefit ratio. 

Italy needs improvements in Urban Mobility e Commuters transport in Medium and Big Cities.

We don't want neither the Tunnel nor the Bridge on the Strait of Messina at the moment.

*VAL DI SUSA WILL FIGHT FOREVER TILL THE END, NO MATTER THE COST!*

If necessary, Civil War.


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## Suburbanist

Palatinus said:


> This tunnel at the moment is useless. It costs 22 Bilions of €, too much if we look at the cost benefit ratio.
> 
> Italy needs improvements in Urban Mobility e Commuters transport in Medium and Big Cities.
> 
> We don't want neither the Tunnel nor the Bridge on the Strait of Messina at the moment.


Those projects are not comparable. Messina Strait bridge or HSR lines serve different purposes than an urban tramway in Firenze or a light metro in Brescia.




> *VAL DI SUSA WILL FIGHT FOREVER TILL THE END, NO MATTER THE COST!*
> 
> If necessary, Civil War.


What an exaggerated and patronizing comment. First, I doubt normal people who have normal lives there are willing to fight "no matter the cost". There are channels to discuss a project such as this, the courts, CIPE... And in a democracy, sometimes you lose, sometimes your grievances are found unsubstantiated. Now imagine if everyone who disagrees with a certain project is willing to wage Civil War hno:

By the way, you might also take notice of this:



> *Codice Penale*
> Art. 286. [Guerra civile] Chiunque commette un fatto diretto a suscitare la guerra civile nel territorio dello Stato, è punito con l'ergastolo.


I don't think honest people living in the valley, even if dissatisfied with the works, want to risk criminal prosecution risking life imprisonment to protest a train line.


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## GENIUS LOCI

Other pics of_ Porta Susa_ station in *Turin*



normy89 said:


> Questa è sempre l'uscita della metro
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> Altro lato dell'uscita metro
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> ...and the last one...


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## poshbakerloo

I've been to Italy a few times and travelled by trains. The network is pretty extensive but the main issue that I have seen is the age of the trains...


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## LtBk

Coccodrillo said:


> ^^ That's normal. From 1997 until 2009 or so in all stations of Milan S-Bahn tunnel (except Garibaldi) there were absolutely no working machines nor counters. Also in Brescia most if not all machines are not working today.


I find it hard to believe that no ticket machine were working for 12 years.


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## Coccodrillo

It's inbelievable, but it's true.

I remember one day when I were in Milano Greco Pirelli (not in the S-Bahn tunnel, but on the line to Chiasso). I searched for the ticket machines, there were 2 or 3, al out of order. I then asked to the newsstand employee, as they often also sell tickets, but not this one. Finally I asked the train guard, who sold me a ticket without supplements, but advised me to ask for tickets the nearby bar-restaurant.

Anyway today there are working machines nearly everyehere, even if sometimes too few of them (another common problem, even if they work, they are sometimes too few compared to the passenger numbers).


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## thun

Its really incredible how badly maintained the ticket machines are and how slow the ticket counters work. In fact, in 99% of the cases, news agents and bars are the better choice (at least if you want to use a regional train).


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## LtBk

I'm not surprised given that Italy is among the most inefficient countries in Europe, but 12 years of broken ticket machines and ticket counters is going bit too far IMO.


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## K_

LtBk said:


> I'm not surprised given that Italy is among the most inefficient countries in Europe, but 12 years of broken ticket machines and ticket counters is going bit too far IMO.


Trenitalia still has a long way to go compared to the rest of Europe, but things do sometimes run quite smoothly.
I travelled Ancona - Milano - Zürich -Bern last weekend, and all trains were on time, except on the Milano - Zürich part (but thanks to redundancy in the Swiss netwoprk we only arrived in Bern 2 minutes late). We had booked via the internet and so travelled "ticketless", which worked perfectly. 

What Trenitalia needs is some help in getting a better, more efficient timetable. Half the gain the Bologna - Milano high speed line brings was lost again by long layovers in our case.
I also have the impression that the Italian Railway network is vastly overbuild. Italy seems to have a lot more infrastructure than needed for the level of traffic on many lines.


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## Coccodrillo

^^ During the last years Lombardia region has redesigned most of its regional services with a symmetric timetable, and created (partially) a common tariff system. I have once made a round trip around Lombardia changing train several times and always finding short connections giving reasonable travel times. Sure, there are still bad points, but lines that once had no trains between 8 am and 11 am now have a 15 minuts cadenced service at least during peak hours.

Map: http://www.msrmilano.com/images/schema_rete_giu2011.jpg (one line = a train every 30 minutes, light colour = only on peak hours)

Future plans are for a 15 minutes services on line a part of S1 south, part of S5 north-west, part of S8, the central part of S9, and a 10 minutes service to Saronno S1/S3, plus other improvements.

However Lombardia is quite an exception, together with with Toscana and Trentino-Südtirol (and maybe Campania). The other regions are cutting services here and there randomly to "save" money and have no plans, running trains without coordination.



K_ said:


> I also have the impression that the Italian Railway network is vastly overbuild. Italy seems to have a lot more infrastructure than needed for the level of traffic on many lines.


Italy sadly is used to firstly build infrastructure, then thinking about if what it has done is useful or not, with few exceptions. Nobody in Europe would have built a 125 km, 7 billions € railway without knowing exactly how to use it, except Italy (which now runs over it around 22 trains a day).


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## LtBk

To be fair, there are several countries in Europe that have far worse railway systems than Italy like Denmark and Romania. I believe Trenitalia will do a better job of running the railway network if it weren't for the corrupt government and general inefficiencies of Italian society.


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## gramercy

europe will benefit greatly from the ongoing privatization of railways, just like with airlines


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## XAN_

gramercy said:


> europe will benefit greatly from the ongoing privatization of railways, just like with airlines


 The problem is, tnat railway much more about infrastructure, while airlines much more infrastructure-independent.


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## Suburbanist

Coccodrillo said:


> Italy sadly is used to firstly build infrastructure, then thinking about if what it has done is useful or not, with few exceptions. Nobody in Europe would have built a 125 km, 7 billions € railway without knowing exactly how to use it, except Italy (which now runs over it around 22 trains a day).


Considering how long(er) it takes to build infrastructure in Italy (or start building it first place), it makes sense to build first, use later. 

All HSR sectors in Italy were once criticized, starting with the Roma-Firenze "diretissima", which began construction in the 1970s, well before the French started working on the Paris-Lyon line.

Maybe NTV will offer cheaper tickets on the Torino-Milano route, which could draw more ridership (and incentive it to put more services) on that line. But the Torino-Milano HSR will only realize its full potential when they build an western rail bypass around Milano, cutting travel times Torino-Bologna by 30 min (on top of other 14 minutes lost by stopping in Milano).

In any case, as from new, they could put some Torino-Bologna services that don't stop in Milano.


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## thun

Well, I guess the loss of time for the trains going through Garibaldi instead of Centrale isn't that bad.


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## joseph1951

Suburbanist said:


> 1-
> Maybe NTV will offer cheaper tickets on the Torino-Milano route, which could draw more ridership (and incentive it to put more services) on that line. But the Torino-Milano HSR will only realize its full potential when they build an western rail bypass around Milano, cutting travel times Torino-Bologna by 30 min (on top of other 14 minutes lost by stopping in Milano).
> 2-
> In any case, as from new, they could put some Torino-Bologna services that don't stop in Milano.


Probably NTV will form a cartel with Trenitalia..

That shouldn't require a great effort .....


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## K_

Suburbanist said:


> Considering how long(er) it takes to build infrastructure in Italy (or start building it first place), it makes sense to build first, use later.


Given how expensive infrastructure is it makes sense to first think about what you really need.


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## Suburbanist

K_ said:


> Given how expensive infrastructure is it makes sense to first think about what you really need.


You are missing the point. Italian bureaucracy, particularly last-minute court guerrilla challenges require re-dos and changes, are much more common than in Germany, let alone France, and even more Spain.

Direct construction costs are not particularly high.


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## Suburbanist

*Artesia to be dismantled*

Artesia, a joint-venture of SNCF and Trenitalia that operates trains from Paris to Venezia, Roma, Milano and other cities, will cease to exist in December 2011. 

Night trains will be operated by Trenitalia and Veolia. Daytime trains, operated with TGVs, will be operated by SNCF. But there is a lingering problem: it is now compulsory for trains circulating in Italy main lines, high speed or not, to be SCMT-compatible, and SNCF was dragging its feet to install the proper equipment.

After Cisalpino, this is the second international joint-venture involving Trenitalia and foreign operator to be ended.


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## K_

Suburbanist said:


> After Cisalpino, this is the second international joint-venture involving Trenitalia and foreign operator to be ended.


Trenitalia's project to turn Italy in to an Island is starting to bear fruit...


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## TRINACRIA FELIX

Coccodrillo said:


> Is a 3.3 km bridge without intermediate pillars possible? I wonder...


To learn more about the Strait of Messina Bridge: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=268204&page=34

or visit my STROM page on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/STROM...-STRAIT-OF-MESSINA-BRIDGE/375137272366?ref=ts


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## AlexNL

Suburbanist said:


> Artesia, a joint-venture of SNCF and Trenitalia that operates trains from Paris to Venezia, Roma, Milano and other cities, will cease to exist in December 2011.


R.I.P. Artesia.


> Night trains will be operated by Trenitalia and Veolia. Daytime trains, operated with TGVs, will be operated by SNCF. But there is a lingering problem: it is now compulsory for trains circulating in Italy main lines, high speed or not, to be SCMT-compatible, and SNCF was dragging its feet to install the proper equipment.


Well, it's only reasonable that every train that runs on its own traction is equipped with the proper safety and communication systems. 


> After Cisalpino, this is the second international joint-venture involving Trenitalia and foreign operator to be ended.


Why would they do that? Is Trenitalia planning to operate international trains themselves, or do they want to get rid of international trains? And why would they want that?


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## Suburbanist

AlexNL said:


> Why would they do that? Is Trenitalia planning to operate international trains themselves, or do they want to get rid of international trains? And why would they want that?


There had been disagreements about how to run the trains, how to invest in rolling stock, long-term, and how to price the services.

Long-term goal of Trenitalia is to have its trains operating under public contracts in a separate business division of its "commercial", profit-generating division.

RFI, in its turn, wants more trains running on its high-speed lines where trackage fees are second highest in Europe per km, after those of Infrabel (Belgium). Artesia, for instance, insisted in running its Paris-Milan daytime trains via Novara, on the old line, instead of using the new Torino-Milano high-speed tracks. 

What Trenitalia did is to get rid of most regional international trains that interfere with internal public-service contracts with the regions. For instance, regional trains Genova-Nice (France) and most regional international services in the Brennero route. The philosophy is that subsidies should not be used for international trains whatsoever, which resulted, among other causes, in the cancellation of all regional services on the Fréjus tunnel between Bardonecchia and Modane (there are a handful of buses running there).


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## TedStriker

^^

Your knowledge of the politics of European railways is pretty impressive, I must say. This is one of the most informative posts I've read from anyone.


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## JB Colbert

K_ said:


> ...
> I also have the impression that the Italian Railway network is vastly overbuild. Italy seems to have a lot more infrastructure than needed for the level of traffic on many lines.


The network is vastly unused, not overbuilt.
Let consider the path Turin-Venice, via Piacenza-Cremona-Mantova.
Its a single track line, mostly in Diesel Traction.
In this condition is not possible to serve decently and quickly, with an IC service, the people that live in those cities; is not possible to have an alternative path between Turin and Venice for goods, for example.
And the results is that the Milan node is congested, to avoid this they was constrained to build the HSL for the path Turin-Venice, not yet finished.

Another example is the path Milan-Ventimiglia (France border), all the traffic must pass through Genoa node, that is congested as well.
There is an alternative path via Alessandria-Savona, single track line with Electric traction.

Regards.


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## JB Colbert

Coccodrillo said:


> ^^ That's normal. From 1997 until 2009 or so in all stations of Milan S-Bahn tunnel (except Garibaldi) there were absolutely no working machines nor counters. Also in Brescia most if not all machines are not working today.


Italy is inefficient, italians are like Calimero, Italy and italians are unreliable, all that you want, but 12 years without working machines is bullshit.


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## K_

JB Colbert said:


> The network is vastly unused, not overbuilt.
> Let consider the path Turin-Venice, via Piacenza-Cremona-Mantova.
> Its a single track line, mostly in Diesel Traction.
> In this condition is not possible to serve decently and quickly, with an IC service, the people that live in those cities; is not possible to have an alternative path between Turin and Venice for goods, for example.
> And the results is that the Milan node is congested, to avoid this they was constrained to build the HSL for the path Turin-Venice, not yet finished.


The connecting railway around Milano has ten tracks in places, and plenty of fly overs to make lots of simultaneous conflict free paths possible. Yet when you look at the tracks you rarely see more than one train at a time... Milano as it currently stands could handle a lot more traffic. 

A single track railway ought to be able to handle a fast passenger train every half hour in both directions, plus some locals. A few strategic passing loops would be sufficient. If Trenitalia ran trains at SBB densities they'd run 4 or 5 times as many...



> Another example is the path Milan-Ventimiglia (France border), all the traffic must pass through Genoa node, that is congested as well.
> There is an alternative path via Alessandria-Savona, single track line with Electric traction.


There is plenty of capacity at Genoa too. There are two seperate lines coming in from the north, and separate routes for freight and passenger through the city.


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## Coccodrillo

Coccodrillo said:


> ^^ That's normal. From 1997 until 2009 or so in all stations of Milan S-Bahn tunnel (except Garibaldi) there were absolutely no working machines nor counters. Also in Brescia most if not all machines are not working today.





JB Colbert said:


> Italy is inefficient, italians are like Calimero, Italy and italians are unreliable, all that you want, but 12 years without working machines is bullshit.


Can you prove that ticket machines have always worked correctly?

Because they weren't according to this website, owned and maintained by some traffic engineers working by Lombardia region (by the way, for recent improvements we have to thank them).



> Il passare del tempo e il cospicuo investimento fatto per le DAB che, come abbiamo appena visto, è ancora ben lontano da portare veri frutti, non dovrebbero però far dimenticare altri sprechi e altri investimenti infruttuosi. Nei primi anni di esercizio del Passante, tutte le stazioni furono dotate di emettitrici automatiche del tipo di quella verde, qui fotografata a Milano Villapizzone nel maggio 2005. Ebbene: queste emettitrici non sono mai entrate in servizio. Sono state infine rimosse al principio del 2006, per far posto alle DAB e, con ogni probabilità, sono state buttate via, ancora nuove.
> 
> *Tra l'altro per vari anni, nelle stazioni del Passante, era impossibile acquistare biglietti di viaggio, per la totale mancanza di punti vendita: una situazione al limite dell'assurdo per un'infrastruttura importante come il Passante, aperta dopo vent'anni di lavori.*
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## JB Colbert

K_ said:


> The connecting railway around Milano has ten tracks in places, and plenty of fly overs to make lots of simultaneous conflict free paths possible. Yet when you look at the tracks you rarely see more than one train at a time... Milano as it currently stands could handle a lot more traffic.


I'm not an Italian Railway Traffic Manager, thus I have no data to discuss whether rarely see more than one train at a time or not.
In any case this, in my point of view, proves that the railway network is unused, not overbuilt.



K_ said:


> ...
> A single track railway ought to be able to handle a fast passenger train every half hour in both directions, plus some locals.


Completely agree, and this proves again that the network is unused.
But a single track railway has a limited capacity and thus does not allow a heay traffic, therefore, the axle West-East Turin-Venice through Piacenza-Cremona-Mantova could not be used as an alternative path for freight and or passengers.




K_ said:


> ...
> ...If Trenitalia ran trains at SBB densities they'd run 4 or 5 times as many...


Probably yes.



K_ said:


> ...
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> There is plenty of capacity at Genoa too. There are two seperate lines coming in from the north, and separate routes for freight and passenger through the city.


Sorry, where did you see plenty of capacity at Genoa node?
The two separate lines coming from north are merged in one lines towards east and another one towards west, through the city, for passengers (commuter and long haul) and freight.

In order to improve the performance and to separate the traffic, there are some work in progress that will completed in 2015.


----------



## JB Colbert

Coccodrillo said:


> Can you prove that ticket machines have always worked correctly?
> 
> Because they weren't according to this website, owned and maintained by some traffic engineers working by Lombardia region (by the way, for recent improvements we have to thank them).


Can you prove that for 12 years there were not working ticket machines?
If you prove that I will present my apologise.

What you posted proves nothing, "vari anni" means "many years"; could mean 2-3 years or 25 years.


----------



## Coccodrillo

I cannot prove, however I assure you that I used regularly Dateo station from the end of 2007 to the end of 2009, and I have never found a working machine. On other stations where I used to go like Monza, Milano Greco Pirelli or Milano Rogoredo the machines where often out of use. But I have to say that today the situation has improved and machines in the Passante are working (even if sometimes, like Rogoredo or Porta Garibaldi, the machines are too few compared to the number of passengers), and the regional rail service has improved much since 2000.


----------



## K_

JB Colbert said:


> In any case this, in my point of view, proves that the railway network is unused, not overbuilt.


That's just semantics. That's like saying that it's me that's to small, not my pants that are to big...




> But a single track railway has a limited capacity and thus does not allow a heay traffic, therefore, the axle West-East Turin-Venice through Piacenza-Cremona-Mantova could not be used as an alternative path for freight and or passengers.


You'd be suprised what you can do with a single track railway. I know of one line in Switzerland that has trains every 10 minutes in both directions, that is still mostly single track...



> Sorry, where did you see plenty of capacity at Genoa node?


On a map of the railway network. (I have the Schweers and Wall railway atlas for Italy)

What I see is 2 tracks leading eas, 2 tracks leading west, 4 tracks leading north and a layout that should allow one to route freight and passenger trains through the area seperately. 
Should be able to handle a few fast trains, a few locals and a few freights on each line, every hour, without any problem.


----------



## JB Colbert

Coccodrillo said:


> I cannot prove, however I assure you that I used regularly Dateo station from the end of 2007 to the end of 2009, ....


Ok.
I apologise in any case because I have been impolite with you.
Ciao!


----------



## Coccodrillo

^^ Scuse accettate.



K_ said:


> You'd be surprised what you can do with a single track railway. I know of one line in Switzerland that has trains every 10 minutes in both directions, that is still mostly single track...


The Sihltalbahn. However, it has only suburban trains with the same stopping pattern. If the speed of different trains varies much, things becomes difficult. A mixed traffic single track line can hardly carry more than 4 trains per hour per direction like one intercity, one regional and two freight, an average of 80 per day. And that's would be much.

What Italy lacks in my opinion is a plan like Rail 2000 (plus a few big infrastructural works, like the Brenner Base Tunnel, a new Milan-Venice line, something around La Spezia-Genova-Savona with maybe the Terzo Valico tunnel in the north (I don't know about Southern Italy)). But, first of all, the many small improvements like the ones of Rail 2000 (which has brought 30% more passenger on Swiss railways with the construction of only 70 km of new line, plus many other smaller projects).


----------



## JB Colbert

K_ said:


> That's just semantics. ...


No, because there are a lot of lines with few traffic, mostly local, with a huge potential that remain untapped.



K_ said:


> ...
> You'd be suprised what you can do with a single track railway. I know of one line in Switzerland that has trains every 10 minutes in both directions, that is still mostly single track...


Agree, but it is one line in Switzerland; I suppose a short line.
I'm talking about a path long more than 400 km, partially electrified and with some change of directions.



K_ said:


> ...
> On a map of the railway network. (I have the Schweers and Wall railway atlas for Italy)
> 
> What I see is 2 tracks leading eas, 2 tracks leading west, 4 tracks leading north and a layout that should allow one to route freight and passenger trains through the area seperately. ....


It is false.
I'm travelling every days between Savona and Genoa; from west to east there are only two tracks for all kind of traffic.
What you see on Schweers+Wall is the future scenario, when the actual work in progress will finish.


----------



## Coccodrillo

As far I know (the source is the usual traffic engineers' website) RFI has removed all tracks between Genova and Savona, except the two main tracks (obviously). This means that an intercity cannot overtake a regional train stopping everywhere, reducing the capacity of the line. Sure, 4 tracks would be welcomed, but instead of improving the capacity of the existing line as much as possible, RFI has reduced it.



JB Colbert said:


> Agree, but it is one line in Switzerland; I suppose a short line.
> I'm talking about a path long more than 400 km, partially electrified and with some change of directions.


Yes, it is around 20 km long, so it's absolutely not comparable with a 400 km line. It could be compared with the Savona-Ventimiglia line once the new tracks under construction will be completed (which will leave two separate single tracks sections of about 15 km each).


----------



## Suburbanist

Coccodrillo said:


> (I don't know about Southern Italy)).


This is what railways in Southern Italy needs:

1. Messina Strait Bridge
2. Messina Strati Bridge (it's never enough to state the importance of that project)
3. Modernization and some new alignments and twinning (where it's still single track) of Salerno-Villa San Giovanni railway
4. Modernization of the Adriatica railway (Bologna-Bari), including a 3rd track Bologna-Ancona. 
5. Electrification of the Jonica railway


----------



## Suburbanist

Coccodrillo said:


> As far I know (the source is the usual traffic engineers' website) RFI has removed all tracks between Genova and Savona, except the two main tracks (obviously). This means that an intercity cannot overtake a regional train stopping everywhere, reducing the capacity of the line. Sure, 4 tracks would be welcomed, but instead of improving the capacity of the existing line as much as possible, RFI has reduced it.


That has happened throughout Italy but for a different reason. They removed passing loops and additional sidings in many stations to cut costs when improvements in signaling and new protocols for SCMT (sistema controllo marcia treno) were deployed in the 1990s.

The sidings couldn't accommodate any sizable freight train though. At most, they were used to allow regional short trains queuing on smaller stations to allow faster trains to go by. But there had been decided there was excessive regional service in the SAvona-Genova sector, they couldn't use much longer trains, and it would cost a lot to improve signaling, so they removed all switches, short parallel tracks (shorter than 150m), dead-end sidings etc.


----------



## Coccodrillo

Salerno-Villa San Giovanni is already double track and quite fast (160-200 km/h on some parts). You may be confused by the Tropea diversion: it was the original line, that has been supplemented by a new double track line about 20 years ago. It is now only used by regional trains, and when the new line is closed because of works.


----------



## Suburbanist

Coccodrillo said:


> Salerno-Villa San Giovanni is already double track and quite fast (160-200 km/h on some parts). You may be confused by the Tropea diversion: it was the original line, that has been supplemented by a new double track line about 20 years ago. It is now only used by regional trains, and when the new line is closed because of works.


There is single-track section near Paola AFAIK and some short single-track sections near Scila and Rosarno. Also, there are many speed limitations as low as 70km/h, especially on the final 50km.


----------



## Coccodrillo

I'm not aware of any single track part, however it is possible that where the second track was built later it follows a different alignment (usually in long tunnels, with the first track on bridges and short tunnels).



Suburbanist said:


> At most, they were used to allow regional short trains queuing on smaller stations to allow faster trains to go by.


And that was important.


----------



## JB Colbert

Coccodrillo said:


> Salerno-Villa San Giovanni is already double track and quite fast (160-200 km/h on some parts). You may be confused by the Tropea diversion: it was the original line, that has been supplemented by a new double track line about 20 years ago. It is now only used by regional trains, and when the new line is closed because of works.


It's correct, there isn't no single track section, neither near Paola, except for the oldest path through Tropea.
The line was rebuilt in the '60 and the section through Tropea was substituted by the section through Lamezia and Rosarno.
Some years ago there was a speed limitation near Scilla due a landslide, I don't know if it is still in use.

EDIT
Regarding the line Savona-Genova, there is the Cogoleto station that allows to overtake a train and, if a traffic manager is present, even the Varazze station.
No switch section is present anymore on the line, for a dynamic overtake.


----------



## Attus

The name "direttissima" is only valid for Roma - Firenze?


----------



## Suburbanist

Attus said:


> The name "direttissima" is only valid for Roma - Firenze?


No.

One of the 3 Firenze-Bologna lines is also called "direttissima".

_Direttissima_ is, on a loose translation, "fast [line]"

It is also used for some other "fast lines" built in early 20th century before WW2 as more straight alignments for old, pioneer railways.


----------



## Attus

^^ Thanks.


----------



## friedrichstrasse

Like the Rome-Formia-Naples.


----------



## NordikNerd

This is a commutertrain passing Peschiera del Garda, June 7 2008.

I think the route of this train is Milan-Venice


----------



## Busfotodotnl

What happened here?


----------



## x-type

Busfotodotnl said:


> What happened here?


we are all waiting for Frecciarossa 1000


----------



## Busfotodotnl

How is the NTv Italo performing? Reliability, comfort, service, ridership?


----------



## IanCleverly

Although, I'm reminded of this:-


----------



## Suburbanist

*Freccie train service network expanded*

Trenitalia strategy of expanding the "Freccie" high(er) speed trains continues with the timetable annual change.

Several additional Frecciarossa (the top category HST) will serve Torino and Salerno. They will also start using more Freccie trains calling at intermediate stations between Bologna and Milano including the brand-new one in Reggio Emilia.

They are also going to run some Freccie trains on the Adriatic line all the way to Torino, addressing in parts some old complaints about connectivity in Liguria.


----------



## Suburbanist

*Improved Station Schedule information (online)*

For those who want to check it, RFI (the Italian network infrastructure management company) has improved its online tool that allows you to look at station timetables (arrival and departures).

You can find the query tool here: http://www.rfi.it/cms/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=f3fe155031639210VgnVCM1000004016f90aRCRD#2

This is just the static information, not the dynamic info of real-time traffic.


----------



## intersezioni

New regional trains, produced by Alstom in Italy for Trenitalia. 70 electric trains plus an option of another 20 trains with maintenance of the fleet. Entry into service in January 2014.









,








,








,


----------



## Axelferis

french so good :grass:


----------



## da_scotty

Is it based on any platform?


----------



## ironalbo

very beautiful train


----------



## joseph1951

Suburbanist said:


> 1-
> Trenitalia strategy of expanding the "Freccie" high(er) speed trains continues with the timetable annual change.
> 
> 2-
> Several additional Frecciarossa (the top category HST) will serve Torino and Salerno. They will also start using more Freccie trains calling at intermediate stations between Bologna and Milano including the brand-new one in Reggio Emilia.
> 
> 3-
> They are also going to run some Freccie trains on the Adriatic line all the way to Torino, addressing in parts some old complaints about connectivity in Liguria.


Furthermore, with the "faboulous" underground pass in Bologna Station, pompously defined by TI General manager, Mr Mauro Moretti "an important underpass for the entire Europe" and , also modestly described by some Italian Politicians as " on of the two artefacts that the World envy us" there was an astonishing reduction in travelling time from Milan Central to Bologna Cental Station (214, 6 km) *of just 3 minutes *. 

Now it is possible possible to go from Milan to Bologna in * just 62 minutes instead of the usual 65' *, and this "considerable" reduction in travelling time has been obtained at the modest cost of a few billion euros per each minute shaved off the timetable.

2-
However with the Milan -Bologna HSTs stopping at the HS Mediopadana Station the total travelling time from Milan Central to Bologna AV Station has increased to 69~70 minutes!!!!!!.

3-
The Bologna - Ancona section of the Adriatic line has been upgraded for 200 km/h running in the early 90s. 
However since the 200 km/h running are not yet authorised in such line for lacking of adeqaute singalling system, the Milan - Bologna - Rimini- Ancona HST , will have a journey time of about 2 hours and the average commecial High Speed (!) will be 102~103 km/h. 

With these new HST services the journey time from from Milan to Ancona (418, 6 km) will be just 3 hours, at an average speed of _*almost*_ 140 km/h.

Really exceptional!
=====

PS:

_The new HST trains connecting the Adriatic line to Milan (or, perhaps to Turin) will not address the complaints about connectivity expressed by Liguria . 

You can see from the Italian map that Turin is in the Piedmont Region, not in Liguria_.


Liguria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liguria

Piedmont
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piedmont


----------



## intersezioni

---ww


----------



## intersezioni

Axelferis said:


> french so good :grass:



I remember that the first generation of these trains called MINUETTO have had technical problems and were withdrawn for a heavy maintenance. Italy 1-1 France 

A video of the new train for Trenitalia :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itvBp5KlmEg


----------



## Coccodrillo

ALe 840+Lebc 840 multisystem EMU, as far I know the only bi-current three-phase AC+3 kV DC electric engine.

From PhotoRail: http://www.photoREMOVETHISrail.com/phr0/quadriorario/110.htm

http://www.photoREMOVETHISrail.com/oldies/WHardmeier/Lebc840e copia.jpg

http://www.photoREMOVETHISrail.com/oldies/WHardmeier/Lebc840b copia.jpg

(delete REMOVETHIS from the URL to see the photos)


----------



## JumpUp

It seems that there will be three daily trains between Milan-Genova-Monaco-Nice

http://www.webtrains.net/actualites.php?article=1000003790

The company Thello will run them


----------



## Suburbanist

A new flyover will be opened tomorrow in Napoli (yellow on the map below)










.









Source: ferrovieIT


----
Bonus pic from same website: new Frecciarossa logo on livery








FerrovieIT


----------



## Sunfuns

Looks like it would be used for avoiding Napoli Centrale. For what kind of traffic would that be useful?


----------



## Suburbanist

Sunfuns said:


> Looks like it would be used for avoiding Napoli Centrale. For what kind of traffic would that be useful?


It connects the high speed rail from Roma to the higher speed rail to Salerno. It would allow through Roma-Salerno services not stopping (and reversing) in Napoli Centrale.


----------



## 437.001

Hi there. 

Are there any fast services from Rome to Reggio Calabria?


----------



## Suburbanist

437.001 said:


> Hi there.
> 
> Are there any fast services from Rome to Reggio Calabria?


Direct ES (Freccia) trains between Roma and Reggio Calabria take 6:20 (3x day) calling at Napoli C., Salerno, Sapri, Paola, Lamezia Terme C., Vibo Valentia, Rosarno, Gioia Tauro, Villa San Giovanni. These trains use the HSL Roma-Napoli C-Salerno.

There is one faster service running it in 5:10 (1x day), calling only at Napoli C., Salerno, Paola, Lamezia Terme, Villa S. Giovanni. These trains use the HSL Roma-Napoli C-Salerno.

There are also 4 trains IC, they take 7h30 to complete the trip and they go via the old line (so you can actually depart later from Roma and take a connection with these IC in Salerno or Napoli, reducing the trip to 6h55-7h05 including a layover in Napoli Centrale).

On top of this, there are additional connections from Villa San Giovanni.

If they could reduce it to 4h, trains could be more competitive with air travel. With this new flyover, they could already run train in 4h45 instead of 5h10 by dropping Napoli C. More time can be won dropping additional stops of course.


----------



## MarcVD

Mistake, please disregard.


----------



## Coccodrillo

Suburbanist said:


> A new flyover will be opened tomorrow in Napoli (yellow on the map below)


PM Napoli Afragola should become a passenger station sometimes in the future. A metro line is also planned to link.

PM means Posto di Movimento, where trains can be stopped to allow overtaking, crossings of the PM is on a single track line, and so on. Basically is a station where trains are neither loaded nor unloaded.

PC means Posto di Comunicazione, where the tracks of a line with more than one track are linked, but it doesn't allow to park trains.

PP means Posto di Passaggio, and it's where a double track line becomes single track outside of a station. One example of this is on the Parma-La Spezia line, where the double track ends north of La Spezia. Another is near San Remo. I think that in Italy most other double tracks ends in stations.


----------



## aqualete

Un contributo a favore delle ferrovie italiane e siciliane. Buona lettura.

Il Pendolino in Sicilia a costo zero: la proposta dell'Associazione Ferrovie Siciliane


----------



## Attus

DSCF4323 by Attus74, on Flickr

DSCF4246 by Attus74, on Flickr

DSCF4171 by Attus74, on Flickr

DSCF4160 by Attus74, on Flickr


----------



## friedrichstrasse

The commuter railway in Salerno (130,000 inhabitants) has finally opened after 14 years of works.
The line is 6 km long, has 6 stops and a single track. Trains travel every 30 minutes circa.

The timetable:

http://www.metrosalerno.com/orari

A report with some images:

http://www.ferrovie.it/ferrovie.vis/timdettvp.php?id=3261


The map:


----------



## dimlys1994

Yesterday:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/traction-rolling-stock/single-view/view/ferrovia-circumetnea-places-newags-first-dmu-export-order.html
> 
> *Ferrovia Circumetnea places Newag's first DMU export order*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 12 Dec 2013
> 
> ITALY: Polish rolling stock manufacturer Newag has finalised its first diesel multiple-unit export order, a €14·8m contract to supply at least four 950 mm gauge DMUs for Ferrovia Circumetnea's 110 km line around the Mount Etna volcano in Sicily.
> 
> Delivery is scheduled within 18 months, and Ferrovia Circumetnea has options valid for four years covering up to six more units which would take the total value to €40m.
> 
> Ferrovia Circumetnea originally awarded the DMU contract to Costa Sistemi Ferroviari, which subsequently hit financial problems. In September 2013 Newag decided to buy out the order. This required the approval of the Italian government, which was granted with effect from December 3.
> 
> The DMUs are to be produced in Poland to an updated version of CSF's design. They will have two diesel engines with electric transmission designed for a maximum speed of 100 km/h. They will have at least 100 seats, air-conditioning, CCTV and wheelchair-accessible toilets.
> 
> Newag has also announced the creation of an Italian after-sales business, which could take on former CSF employees.


----------



## Verso

Trains between Italy and Slovenia resume after two years (only to Villa Opicina though):


----------



## K_

Verso said:


> Trains between Italy and Slovenia resume after two years (only to Villa Opicina though):


When I travelled that route a few years ago SZ trains also only went as far as Vila Opicina. A bus then brought us down to Trieste. How is it now?


----------



## Verso

^^ I guess you didn't take a Venice-Budapest train, those existed for 20 years. Yes, now you can go to Trieste by taking bus #39, which runs between both railway stations (Villa Opicina and Trieste Centrale), but I don't know if trains and buses are synchronized.


----------



## Coccodrillo

> but I don't know if trains and buses are synchronized


Apparently not.

Note that this is an Italian station only served by foreign trains terminating here. Quite a rarity, another one being Delle in France (served only by SBB at unconnected from the French network - although SNCF still manages to create bureaucratic issues to complicate SBB work...like allowing only certain types of trains in that station, which has no switches at all, being just a stub track).


----------



## Sunfuns

I don't know why but Italian railway authorities are particularly averse to international traffic. I can't think of any other major system with poorer connections to neighbours...


----------



## Verso

Coccodrillo said:


> Apparently not.
> 
> Note that this is an Italian station only served by foreign trains terminating here. Quite a rarity, another one being Delle in France (served only by SBB at unconnected from the French network - although SNCF still manages to create bureaucratic issues to complicate SBB work...like allowing only certain types of trains in that station, which has no switches at all, being just a stub track).


There is also Lendava in Slovenia with a railway only to Croatia (probably served only by HŽ, although I'm not sure). But I assume Italian _freight_ trains drive through Villa Opicina as well?



Sunfuns said:


> I don't know why but Italian railway authorities are particularly averse to international traffic. I can't think of any other major system with poorer connections to neighbours...


SŽ wanted to run Siemens Desiros to Villa Opicina, but FS demands testing first, even though our Desiros already ran to Opicina ten years ago. So I guess this composition with a locomotive and a carriage only runs to Sežana where you change on a Desiro to Ljubljana (or a Fiat motor coach to Nova Gorica and Jesenice). By the way, the section between Villa Opicina and Sežana is served by SŽ, which is more favourable to international connections. On the other hand, the section between Gorizia and Nova Gorica is served by FS, so no passenger trains drive there.


----------



## Coccodrillo

> I can't think of any other major system with poorer connections to neighbours...


Spain and Portugal?

Although Italian border crossings where the service is still acceptable (I can't say "good") are those to Switzerland and Austria, only thanks to these, the Italian (germanophone...) province of Südtirol and Regione Lombardia.

However, the crossing of Tarvisio only has one or two passenger trains a day.



> There is also Lendava in Slovenia with a railway only to Croatia (probably served only by HŽ, although I'm not sure).


It is a freight only line, and once continued to Hungary. Only the ~5 km between Lendava and the last Hungarian station are closed.

http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting...a/croatia---slovenia---bosnia-hercegovina.gif



> But I assume Italian freight trains drive through Villa Opicina as well?


Yes, there are around 20 trains a day.



> So I guess this composition with a locomotive and a carriage only runs to Sežana where you change on a Desiro to Ljubljana


Yes.


----------



## Verso

Coccodrillo said:


> Yes, there are around 20 trains a day.


How do you know the number of freight trains there? Could you post a link to these data?


----------



## Coccodrillo

I cannot tell my source, but I can say I have no reasons not to trust it.

I posted some statistics on the Italian forum: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=109122067&postcount=6037

Border station Numbers of freight trains in a week (Trains on the busiest day, usually Wednesday or Thursday)

Ventimiglia 20 (5)
Modane 300 (58)
Domodossola 430 (76)
Luino 260 (50)
Chiasso 360 (67)
Brennero 530 (100)
Tarvisio 300 (51)
Gorizia 50 (8)
Villa Opicina 120 (22)

Real numbers of the traffic during a week in spring 2012. Note that on the Gotthard (Chiasso+Luino) and the Brenner there are trains that ends before the border and that some trains that in Germany and Switzerland travel as a single train in Italy are split into two.


----------



## Suburbanist

Villach-Tarvisio crossing will have more trains as OBB becomes an open-access operator.

Let's also remember traffic to/from Slovenia had been historically much lower than that to Switzerland, since Yugoslavia was a hostile communist country...


----------



## dimlys1994

Today:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/news/europe/single-view/view/trenitalia-signs-pesa-dmu-order.html
> 
> *Trenitalia signs Pesa DMU order*
> 17 Dec 2013
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ITALY: National passenger operator Trenitalia signed a €139·6m contract for Polish manufacturer Pesa to supply 40 ATR220 Atribo diesel multiple-units on December 12, after the rejection of an appeal by Stadler.
> 
> The first of the DMUs is scheduled for delivery by November 2014, and there is an option for up to 20 more.
> 
> Pesa has previously sold 41 similar DMUs to three Italian operators.


----------



## K_

Suburbanist said:


> Let's also remember traffic to/from Slovenia had been historically much lower than that to Switzerland, since Yugoslavia was a hostile communist country...


When Yugoslavia was still a communist country (albeit a non aligned one, not hostile to the West at all) it was easier to travel to that country by train then it is now. And that while Slovenia and Croatia are even EU members now...

There used to be direct train Oostende - Split at one time, and there were many international trains to Yugoslavia from other places in Western Europe. How things have changed...


----------



## K_

Verso said:


> SŽ wanted to run Siemens Desiros to Villa Opicina, but FS demands testing first, even though our Desiros already ran to Opicina ten years ago. .


Indeed. It was on such a Desiro that I travelled Ljubljana - Trieste in 2004. I remember the conductor telling me that in Vila Opicina it woudl be the end, and I would be on my own. But I had heard rumors of a connecting coach, and there was one. It was a private one though, maybe a local company seeing an opportunity. 

We'll see how it evolves. I really would like to see more cross border trains in that part of the world.


----------



## Coccodrillo

Suburbanist said:


> Villach-Tarvisio crossing will have more trains as OBB becomes an open-access operator.


Only if Trenitalia doesn't boycott them...



Suburbanist said:


> Let's also remember traffic to/from Slovenia had been historically much lower than that to Switzerland, since Yugoslavia was a hostile communist country...


As said by K, 25 years ago there were much more trains than there are today, in Villa Opicina.

Well, even a scheduled train per week would be more than the current passenger traffic...


----------



## XAN_

Suburbanist said:


> Let's also remember traffic to/from Slovenia had been historically much lower than that to Switzerland, since Yugoslavia was a hostile communist country...


You are not very good at history, aren't you? Yugoslavia was definitely socialistic inclined with notably big state sector of economy, but at the same time, of all central\eastern Europe countries it was the most capitalism inclined one... :bash:
Learn the damn history by proper and full books, not propaganda leaflets...


----------



## tauernexpress

Yougoslavia had a market economy and was never a part of the Warsaw pact (the soviet counterpart of NATO). It had free hospitals and education, and larger companys were state-property, but as a Westerner you often passed the Yougoslav border without being bothered by the customs (by train, asleep in a sleeping car, with your passport with the guard at least).


----------



## Verso

opcorn:


----------



## da_scotty

May I ask a little tourist question?

Me and my girlfriend want to travel in Italy next summer, but we have some questions!

- What is the first time you can pre-book tickets (economy, super economy), because at the moment I get a "Trenitalia hassn't loaded the schedule yet"
- Are there any lines you say we must travel, I also would like to try the Italo/Frecciarossa service!

Thank you for your time!


----------



## Suburbanist

da_scotty said:


> May I ask a little tourist question?
> 
> Me and my girlfriend want to travel in Italy next summer, but we have some questions!
> 
> - What is the first time you can pre-book tickets (economy, super economy), because at the moment I get a "Trenitalia hassn't loaded the schedule yet"
> - Are there any lines you say we must travel, I also would like to try the Italo/Frecciarossa service!
> 
> Thank you for your time!


Trenitalia was talking of expanding the booking window to 120 days from current 90. Small trick 1: regional services (fixed prices) only appear as independently bookable within 7 days (though they are often sold in conjunction with Freccie and other trains); if that is a problem, book your other trains and buy your regional tickets just before you depart. Small trick 2: TreNord operates some services in Lombardia and their trains do not appear perfectly on Trenitalia schedule.


----------



## 437.001

*Milano-Cadorna station.*



palme86 said:


>


----------



## 437.001

*Milano-Centrale station.*



palme86 said:


>


----------



## 437.001

*Venezia-Santa Lucia station.*



palme86 said:


>


----------



## dimlys1994

This video shows train which was damaged and haulted by landslide near town of Andora. The accident happened on the 17th January:


----------



## TedStriker

Switzerland and Italy agree financing for 4m corridor

SWITZERLAND will provide €120m towards gauge enhancement works on the Luino Ranzo – Gallarate/Novara line in northern Italy under an agreement signed in Berne on January 28 by Swiss federal councilor for transport Mrs Doris Leuthard, and Italian transport minister Mr Maurizio Lupi.

The project will upgrade this key freight link between the Swiss border and northern Italy to accommodate semitrailers with a 4m corner height, and is an important part of the Swiss Federal Council's plan to create a continuous 4m corridor from Basle to Northern Italy via the Gotthard Base Tunnel, in line with its modal shift policy.

The agreement also includes a provision for Italy to spend €40m on upgrading the line between Chiasso and Milan. The work mainly involves increasing the loading gauge in tunnels and modifying platform canopies at stations.

This division of financial responsibilities between the two parties was described by Leuthard as being "fair". The agreement is based on a decision made by the Swiss parliament at its winter session to invest €228m in Italy. The next stage will be to transfer the sum of €120m to Italian infrastructure manager RFI under an agreement to be signed with the Swiss Ministry of Transport.

Under the terms of the agreement, the work on both lines should be finished by the end of 2020, when the entire Gotthard base tunnel project including the Ceneri tunnel is due for completion. This will allow the carriage of 4m semitrailers on the entire route through Switzerland to Gallarate/Novara via Luino and Milan via Chiasso.

At present the only 4m rail corridor though Switzerland is the Lötschberg – Simplon route, where capacity is almost exhausted.

From Rail Journal, 30th January, 2014


----------



## jonasry

XAN_ said:


> You are not very good at history, aren't you? Yugoslavia was definitely socialistic inclined with notably big state sector of economy, but at the same time, of all central\eastern Europe countries it was the most capitalism inclined one... :bash:
> Learn the damn history by proper and full books, not propaganda leaflets...


Traffic to Yugoslavia was pretty intense, it was a big holiday destination. Also, the large expatriate contributed to the heavy traffic. In the 70s we even had a direct sleeper carrige Stockholm-Belgrade-Bar!


----------



## redstarcastles

*Milano - November 2013*

Some pictures from Milano:


464 237 Milano Porta Garibaldi 18 November 2013


Italo set 21 Milano Porta Garibaldi 19 November 2013


Trenitalia set 12B & Italo set 21 Milano Porta Garibaldi 19 November 2013 

http://smu.gs/1eTTK3M


----------



## AlexNL

Bella .Italo :banana:

Thanks for sharing


----------



## redstarcastles

Some from Roma:


Treno 01 Roma Trastevere 20 November 2013


Set 39A Roma Ostienne 20 November 2013


Roma Termini 20 November 2013


Set 37A Roma Termini 20 November 2013


Set 33A Roma Termini 22 November 2013


402169 Roma Termini 22 November 2013

http://smu.gs/1dTjZdn


----------



## dimlys1994

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/passenger/single-view/view/first-jazz-emu-delivered.html
> 
> *First Jazz EMU delivered*
> 28 Mar 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ITALY: Alstom officially handed over the first of 70 Coradia Meridian electric multiple-units being built for Trenitalia at Roma Termini on March 27.
> 
> The operator placed the €440m order for the four and five-car 160 km/h EMUs in November 2012. Following the musical themes of the Vivalto and Minuetto trainsets, Trenitalia has branded the new units 'Jazz'. They have a new livery with a 'marked contrast between its matt anthracite grey background and bright brush strokes of colour that enhance the dynamism and compactness of the train's design'.
> 
> The EMUs will be supplied in four configurations: Metropolitan, with more standing room; Regional, with more seats; Regional Eexpress, with a more comfortable interior for longer distances; and Airport, with more space for luggage. They will be equipped with CCTV, audio and visual information, signage in braille and 220 V power sockets.
> 
> The Coradia Meridian trainsets are being designed and manufactured at Alstom's Savigliano, Bologna and Sesto San Giovanni plants.


----------



## Sunfuns

And on which routes are they likely to be used?


----------



## Eiropro

Sunfuns said:


> And on which routes are they likely to be used?


Well. The forth type will be use on the line to the airport


----------



## Suburbanist

Eiropro said:


> Well. The forth type will be use on the line to the airport


Leonardo Express?


----------



## TedStriker

So it looks as though there's now a plan to extend the P400 piggyback profile down to the South of Italy. 

There are various online sources of information on this and other stuff that relates to the cargo side of Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane, one of which is Intermodale 24.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Global Rail News:



> http://www.globalrailnews.com/2014/04/01/eu-funding-for-france-italy-line-studies/
> 
> *EU funding for France-Italy line studies*
> 1 APR, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Monte Carlo railway station, photo by Serjio74 via shutterstock.com_
> 
> TEN-T Programme funding from the EU is to finance early studies into a planned upgrade to a section of railway linking France and Italy.
> 
> The line, which connects Mandelieu in France and Ventimiglia in Italy, is popular with tourists travelling to and from the Principality of Monaco, with the section between Nice and Monaco being the busiest in the country outside of Paris.
> 
> The European Union will provide €2.3 million to conduct initial studies. These will include traffic analysis and feasibility, technical and environmental studies


----------



## Coccodrillo

TedStriker said:


> So it looks as though there's now a plan to extend the P400 piggyback profile down to the South of Italy.
> 
> There are various online sources of information on this and other stuff that relates to the cargo side of Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane, one of which is Intermodale 24.


I'm surprised by the Bologna-Florence line: it includes many tunnels built in the 1920s and so too small (longest: 18.5, 7.2 and 3 km). Enlarging them by 2017 seems optimistic. Tunnels on other lines (which are still not completely P400) are mostly recent thus likely big enough.

(P400/C80 are technically different definitions, but basically equivalent, while the equivalent of C45 is roughly P385)










Exact page: http://www.intermodale24-rail.net/linee/upgrading-infrastruttura.html


----------



## TedStriker

^^

Do you think this is more of a presentation of an idealistic wish-list rather than something that has a real chance of happening? 

As you say, the work necessary for the tunnels and so on will be significant and expensive.


----------



## Coccodrillo

Lines north/east of Turin, Milan and Bologna either already have P80 loading gauge or the financing for works is already mostly assured (by Switzerland, in the case of Domodossola/Luino-Novara/Milano lines). Some lines in the triangle Turin-Milan-Trieste-Bologna will be quickly adapted as there are very few tunnels on them (two between Turin and Trieste+Turin's urban tunnel, one between Bologna and Venezia, one between Bologna and Milan).

The Adriatic line (Bologna-Bari-Calabria) has some tunnels, but the longest are recent thus likely already big enough, others are being enlarged or doubled (using the old double track tunnel with a single track with bigger loading gauge).

The problem as I said is the Bologna-Florence line, whose tunnels are likely around 35 km in total. An alternative for that might be building a new 15 km base tunnel for the Parma-La Spezia (aka Pontremolese line), which recently has been doubled on many parts with long tunnels (likely already P80, but on isolated sections of line).

Then there is the 27 km Third Giovi tunnel (Milano-Genova, + many km of branch and secondary tunnels), slowly under construction (maybe?), clearly big enough.

I doubt other tunnel routes will be enlarged, like La Spezia-Genova-Ventimiglia, where afaik even recent tunnels are P45 only - and that's hundreds of km underground.


----------



## TedStriker

^^

Interesting stuff though.

I wonder how difficult it will be to get the funding for these works.


----------



## K_

Coccodrillo said:


> The problem as I said is the Bologna-Florence line, whose tunnels are likely around 35 km in total.


Couldn't they do something similar to what has been done for the Löthsberg mountain route: Clear only one track for P80.

Or maybe they intend to run freight trains on the high speed line at night...


----------



## TedStriker

K_ said:


> Or maybe they intend to run freight trains on the high speed line at night...


The Italian HS lines have been built to be freight-train capable. Would there be an issue of the level of track access fees? 

It took ages to get freight trains running on HS1 in the UK and I seem to recall the main stumbling block was the track access fee issue.


----------



## Coccodrillo

K_ said:


> Or maybe they intend to run freight trains on the high speed line at night...


Italian HSLs have been designed as mixed traffic lines only for political reasons...it is unlikely we will see freight trains on them.


----------



## TedStriker

Okee dokee.


----------



## Suburbanist

Coccodrillo said:


> Italian HSLs have been designed as mixed traffic lines only for political reasons...it is unlikely we will see freight trains on them.


They better run freight trains there, as the option to increase axle load on tracks and extra safety systems on tunnels increased costs of construction of the Firenze-Bologna-Milano sector by at least € 2,4 billion.


----------



## K_

Coccodrillo said:


> Italian HSLs have been designed as mixed traffic lines only for political reasons...it is unlikely we will see freight trains on them.


No, but no trains actually need to run for RFI to be able to claim that they've increased the reach of the P80 profile in the Italian network...


----------



## TedStriker

Just so that I'm clear, within the maps shown above and elsewhere, are any of those blue P/C80 lines actually the high-speed lines? 

If so, which sections in particular? 

Also, the press statement about the loading gauge enhancement looks to be quite serious and why bother, after all, to come up with the idea if there is no real prospect of anything happening? 

A 4m-capable corridor down to Bari would be good, as it would cater for Greek and Turkish ro-ro trade as well as Italian trade. 

I'm not sure that Gioia Tauro needs this enhancement though as the intermodal cargo coming and out of here is essentially shipping containers as oppose to continental, and therefore, piggyback trailer traffic.


----------



## Coccodrillo

TedStriker said:


> Just so that I'm clear, within the maps shown above and elsewhere, are any of those blue P/C80 lines actually the high-speed lines?


No, any of them are HSLs, but classic lines. Even the P45 section Florence-Rome is the old line, not the HSL (Direttissima).


----------



## IThomas

Italy could start a series of liberalizations also for railways. Italian Senate, infact has submitted a law decree, now passed at the Government. Among competitors, the Deutsche Bahn, aims to win the contract that will allow to move its trains along the peninsula. On April 16, 2014, the first offer is gone to Emilia Romagna Region. The German company, seems also determined to do a second offer to Veneto Region in 2016. According to some rumors this could be just the beginning, and soon other regions (such as Marche, Tuscany, Umbria, Piedmont, Abruzzo) will be added into the group.​


----------



## Coccodrillo

Some photos of the Direttissima Bologna-Florence whose maximum speed is around 180 km/h and was opened in 1934. It includes three major tunnels, 18.5, 7.2 and 3 km long. Inside the longest tunnel there is a station called "Precedenze" (which in Italian indicates the action to stop slower trains for overtakings). For a while it was open to the brave people who climbed the ~1800 steps to the surface, but now it cannot even be used for overtakings anymore (there are just some unmanned railway equipments). For around 50 years it has been the second longest rail tunnel in the world, the Simplon, which is however much deeper (~2145 m vs -I suppose- around 400-500 m).

http://www.rossimodelli.it/precedenze.html

http://corrierefiorentino.corriere....ottanta-anni-non-sentirli-22321182830.shtml#1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna–Florence_railway

Precedenze entrance (two inclined shafts) are located somewhere enar this village: https://maps.google.ch/maps?q=Casti...oli,+Bologna,+Emilia-Romagna,+Italia&t=p&z=15


----------



## friedrichstrasse

The entrance is located in the village of Cà di Landino, built for the workers durig the construction of the tunnel and now partly abandoned.

https://www.google.ch/maps/place/40035+Castiglione+dei+Pepoli+BO/@44.1329065,11.1794188,351m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x132ae8084f663fbf:0x113e3f4a483aa15c?hl=it


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...ate-delivery-of-italian-emus.html?channel=542
> 
> *CAF fined for late delivery of Italian EMUs*
> Friday, May 09, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _CAF has been issued with a €4.5m penalty by the Italian autonomous region of Friuli Venezia Giulia (FVG) for the late delivery of a fleet of eight ETR 563 EMUs._
> 
> The region placed a €45.6m order for the five-car trains in March 2011 and the first set was delivered to Italy in July 2012 for testing. The trains were due to enter service in early 2013, but have remained in store at Cervignano and Trieste due to what the regional transport councilor for transport Maria Grazia Santoro describes as "the bureaucratic slowness of other institutions."
> 
> The contract between CAF and the FVG government stipulated that the trains must be ready for use upon delivery, with Authorisation to Place Into Service from Italy's National Railway Safety Agency (ANSF). However, certification has still not been completed and the trains are not expected to enter service until early next year, although the regional government says it is working with CAF to conclude the process as quickly as possible.
> 
> The FVG government is due to award a new 15-year operating contract for regional services this year, which will see the new trains replace 40-year-old Ale 801 EMUs.
> 
> Four of the new CAF trains will be equipped to operate cross-border services into Austria and Slovenia


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...uble-deck-trains-for-trenord.html?channel=542
> 
> *More double-deck trains for Trenord*
> Friday, May 09, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FERROVIENORD, Italy, has signed a contract worth around €100m with AnsaldoBreda for seven additional TSR six-car double-deck EMUs, which will be used on regional services in Lombardy by Trenord, the company's joint venture with Trenitalia.
> 
> The order is an option from a contract signed last year for seven TSR sets. Delivery of the additional trains is expected to begin in January 2015.
> 
> Ferrovienord has already received a total of 78 TSR trains, which were delivered by AnsaldoBreda in several batches between 2006 and 2012


----------



## EMArg

Video of some of the train trips from the inside of the train. Timecodes, just in case you wanna skip to the points you wanna see:

*0:04* - From Florence to Pisa
*1:55* - From Pisa to Genoa
*8:12* - From Genoa to Monaco


----------



## brick84

*Railway 'Siracusa-Gela-Canicattì' in Sicily*


_Near Acate, province of Ragusa_









by Massimo Zuccotti on Flickr



_'Baroque Train' in viaduct San Leonardo, near Ragusa Ibla
_









by Daniele Donadelli on Flickr


----------



## brick84

*Between Pozzallo and Marina di Modica (province of Ragusa)*










by Daniele Donadelli on Flickr



*Modica (Rg)*

_with viaduct 'Costanzo' or 'Irminio' in the background_









by  Daniele Donadelli on Flickr


----------



## brick84

*Sicily*

_'Ferrovia Circumetnea' - railway line around Etna vulcan_




Gualtiero said:


> Un capolavoro a firma dell'amico Francesco B.
> 
> 
> scendo a Scalilli di Tobruk., su Flickr



_near Bronte, province of Catania_









by Nicola Maritato on Flickr


----------



## brick84

*Railway line near Messina, Sicily*




Gualtiero said:


> E656 427 di Gualtiero Palermo, su Flickr


----------



## brick84

*Railway Messina-Palermo, Sicily*




Gualtiero said:


> E656 254 di Gualtiero Palermo, su Flickr


----------



## brick84

*Taormina, Sicily*




















by Rikard Ågren on Flickr


----------



## brick84

*Acireale (Ct)*

_Railway line Messina-Catania_










by Nicola Maritato on Flickr


----------



## brick84

brick84 said:


> *Sicily*
> 
> _'Ferrovia Circumetnea' - railway line around Etna vulcan_
> _near Bronte, province of Catania_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by Nicola Maritato on Flickr


^^


----------



## dimlys1994

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...kes-charge-as-fs-reports-successful-year.html
> 
> *Elia takes charge as FS reports successful year*
> 30 May 2014
> 
> ITALY: RFI Chief Executive Michel Mario Elia has been nominated as the next Chief Executive of Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane, in succession to Mauro Moretti who was named head of the Finmeccanica group in April. The appointment was announced at the FS Group annual shareholders meeting in Roma on May 29, subject to ratification by the group’s board of directors.
> 
> Professor Marcello Messori, Director of the School of European Political Economy at LUISS Guido Carli University in Roma, was appointed as the new President of FS Group, and several existing directors were re-elected to the board, with the addition of Daniela Carosio and Simonetta Giordani.
> 
> The meeting also approved the FS Group financial results for 2013, reporting a 20·7% increase in net profit to €460m. FS said it was the sixth consecutive year of positive results, with the increased profit attributable in part to a 1·2% increase in operating revenues to exceed €8·3bn for the first time. At the same time, operating costs fell slightly to € 6·3bn.
> 
> ‘The 2013 performance and the achievement of all the objectives of the 2011-15 Industrial Plan, despite the continuing national and international economic crisis, confirm the sound structural reorganisation process that the management has undertaken since 2007’, said FS, adding that ‘the stronger financial solidity of Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane’ provided a firm foundation on which to achieve ‘the yet more challenging’ objectives in the 2014-17 plan approved in February


----------



## brick84

*Railway station of Agrigento C.le - Sicily*










by Gianni Grimaldi on Flickr


----------



## brick84

*Railway Messina-Palermo, Sicily*

_near San Pier Marina (Me)_


Regionale 7841 Messina C.le - Palermo C.le nei pressi di San Pier Marina (ME) di Gualtiero Palermo, su Flickr



*Veneto region*

_railway near Quero Vas_



D445 1043. Quero Vas (BL) di Gualtiero Palermo, su Flickr[


----------



## brick84

*Railway Messina-Palermo, Sicily*

_Railway station of Torregrotta (Messina)_



by Dario Antonazzo
https://www.flickr.com/photos/darioantonazzo/14218069583/in/pool-ferroviesiciliane


----------



## brick84

*New turistic train through archeological ruins of 'Valle dei Templi' in Agrigento, Sicily
*


----------



## Never give up

High speed line and classic line side by side in Orvieto, half-way between Florence and Rome.
Almost an aerial, but in fact taken from the fortress of this fantastic hilltop city


----------



## brick84

*Railway Palermo-Catania*

_in province of Enna_


----------



## brick84

*ETR 575"Italo"di NTV Milano P.G.-Bologna C.le near Cadeo(PC)*











by Massimo Minervini on Flickr


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...us-enter-service-in-piedmont.html?channel=542
> 
> *Trenitalia Jazz EMUs enter service in Piedmont*
> Wednesday, July 23, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TRENITALIA's new Alstom Jazz EMU was formally presented to regional and local council representatives from the Piedmont region of northern Italy at Turin Porta Susa station on July 18 by the new Italian State Railways (FS) CEO Mr Michele Elia and Trenitalia CEO Mr Vincenzo Soprano.
> 
> Trenitialia placed a €450m order in November 2012 for 70 Jazz trains, which are being assembled in Piedmont at Alstom's Savigliano plant. Fourteen of the trains will be used in Piedmont and five are already in use on SFM6 services between Turin and Asti.
> 
> As well as Piedmont, the EMUs will also delivered to Lombardia, Umbria, Marche, Abruzzo, Lazio and Calabria in regional, suburban and airport express configurations.
> 
> The 160km/h trains are being delivered in four, five, and six-car formations, with the latter seating up to 292 passengers


----------



## K_

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ Hopefully Hitachi buys AnsaldoBreda and then brings the V250 project back to life


Why?

Hitachi has far superior products. Let's hope they get more of their A-trains on European rails...


----------



## Suburbanist

K_ said:


> Why?
> .


V250 is one of the best train design projects of last 20 years in the World  though it has not been properly manufactured and properly used by clients


----------



## x-type

Suburbanist said:


> V250 is one of the best train design projects of last 20 years in the World  though it has not been properly manufactured and properly used by clients


is that called sarcasm?


----------



## K_

x-type said:


> is that called sarcasm?


No, it's called trolling...


----------



## webeagle12

x-type said:


> is that called sarcasm?


Ignore him. Nothing ever comes out from his mouth that is good thing.


----------



## brick84

*Taormina's railway station, Sicily *

_Inside_










http://www.gazzettinonline.it/2014/03/09/stazione-ferroviaria-di-taormina-addio_3461.html


----------



## brick84

*Railway line in province of Trapani, Sicily*











www.ferroviekaos.it


----------



## MarcVD

As far as I can see, this is the northern branch of the line from Palermo to 
Trapani. I was there one month ago, and it looked closed. All trains on this 
line were replaced by buses. On the southern branch (the one going via Marsala) operations were normal.


----------



## brick84

MarcVD said:


> As far as I can see, this is the northern branch of the line from Palermo to
> Trapani. I was there one month ago, and it looked closed. All trains on this
> line were replaced by buses. On the southern branch (the one going via Marsala) operations were normal.


That's true, unfortunately.


----------



## brick84

*Calabria*











by _Stefano Paolini_


----------



## brick84

*Railway station of Paola (CS), Calabria*


----------



## brick84

*Scilla (RC), Calabria*











by Michele Di Carne on www.apuliaonrail.com


----------



## IThomas

> Rome, October 30 - The government's so-called Unblock Italy decree has passed to the Senate after winning definitive approval in the Lower House on Thursday. The decree aims to free up billions of euros in funding for infrastructure projects, including new highways, railways, and major airport renovations, and help the economy. It cleared the House with 278 votes in favour, 161 against and 7 abstentions. The measure needs to win final approval before it times out on November 11.
> 
> source


..


----------



## brick84

Near *Ragusa, Sicily*










www.apuliaonrail.com


----------



## brick84

*San Cataldo (CL), Sicily*











by Claudio Gori on Flickr


----------



## MarcVD

brick84 said:


> *San Cataldo (CL), Sicily*


This must be the daily service between Agrigento and Catania. It uses a
DMU because west of Caltanisetta , the line is not electrified.


----------



## brick84

MarcVD said:


> This must be the daily service between Agrigento and Catania. It uses a
> DMU because west of Caltanisetta , the line is not electrified.


No, there is not daily service between Agrigento and Catania.

How you can see, the line here is electrifed. It must be the service between south and middle cities of Sicily (Caltanissetta, Agrigento, Canicattì, Licata or Gela..)


----------



## MarcVD

brick84 said:


> No, there is not daily service between Agrigento and Catania


R 8618 (itinéraire du: 05.11.14)

Agrigento Centrale 09:35 
Agrigento Bassa 09:41 09:46 
Aragona-Caldare 09:59 10:00 
Grotte 10:16 10:17 
Racalmuto 10:21 10:22 
Canicatti 10:37 10:44 
Caltanissetta Centrale 11:16 11:17 
Caltanissetta Xirbi 11:25 11:26 
Villarosa 11:38 11:39 
Enna 11:58 11:59 
Leonforte-Pirato 12:09 12:10 
Dittaino 12:18 12:19 
Catenanuova-Centuripe 12:38 12:39 
Bicocca 13:05 13:06 
Catania Acquicella 13:11 13:12 
Catania Centrale 13:22 

Source : bahn.de

I have seen this train when I was in Agrigento 6 weeks ago.


----------



## Suburbanist

Is it ever economical to even run a 1-unit train like that?


----------



## MarcVD

Suburbanist said:


> Is it ever economical to even run a 1-unit train like that?


Well, it can take twice the number of people you load in a bus, so if a bus is
economical, why not a train ? Provided of course that the track access charges
are reasonable, and that it can run with a one-person crew.


----------



## Suburbanist

Italian rail authority ordered RFI to reduce the fees it charges to NTV, deeming them excessive.

So trackage fees will now be € 8,20/train/km instead of € 13,10/train/km


----------



## AlexNL

I am sure that will be benificial for .Italo, as they were severely suffering from the high track access charges and competition from Trenitalia.


----------



## brick84

_Historical train from *Catania* to *Porto Empedocle (AG), Sicily*_

by www.ferroviekaos.it


_Catania_










_next to Temple of Vulcano (Agrigento)_










_province of Agrigento_


----------



## k.k.jetcar

*Possibility high that Hitachi will purchase AnsaldoBreda*

Reports are filtering in that Chinese firm CNR has withdrawn from considering purchase of the Italian train maker, and that Hitachi has finalized its offer, estimated at approx. 1.4 billion Euros. It is expected a formal announcement to be made by the end of this week. 

Prime minister Matteo Renzi and Japanese PM Shinzo Abe have conferred on the sidelines of the recent Asia-Europe summit in October, seeking reassurances that any purchase will not result in employment cuts.

http://iltirreno.gelocal.it/pistoia...-hitachi-vale-1-4-miliardi-di-euro-1.10303244


----------



## Suburbanist

*TrenOk*

TrenOk was a short-lived low-cost train service unveiled by Trenitalia 10 years ago. They put some ETR-450 on direct Bari-Roma and Roma-Milano services, and sold cheap tickets online. 










It was an attempt to put up a fight with low-cost airlines, but they managed, most and foremost, to siphon passengers from other non-high speed trains in these routes.


----------



## MarcVD

brick84 said:


> _Historical train from *Catania* to *Porto Empedocle (AG), Sicily*_


Nice ! I was in that area two months ago, and have seen this station of
Porto Empedocle. At the exception of some occasional tourist or historical 
train - not more than a few per year - this station is now unused. This, of
course, right after the line has been extensively modernized... :bash: 
This place seems to have a very specific appetite for useless public works,
as there are also around there many remnants of road infrastructure that 
were never finished. As if Sicily had too much money... hno:

Did you know that, at the time there was still a metre-gauge network in 
Sicily, this line was dual-gauge ? Nothing remains of that today, of course
(finding remnant parts of metre gauge infrastructure was my reason for being
there), but south of Porto Empedocle, the metre gauge line to Castelvretano
is still very visible in many places, its right of way having been re-used for 
local roads or cycling paths. The track is even still in place here and there.


----------



## Coccodrillo

Yes, the line to Porto Empedocle is very rarely used. It has (or had?) a scheduled regional service two days a year, in February, for a local fair. Curiously, it appears* on Trenitalia's printed timetable in a separate table, just any other normal railway line operating year long.

Here the two lines on it.wiki:

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrovia_Palermo-Agrigento-Porto_Empedocle

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrovia_Castelvetrano-Porto_Empedocle

*appeared, as since June 2014 Trenitalia doesn't publish its timetable anymore (although you might find the PDFs on the internet, and a printed edition from private editors like Orario Veltro  on newsstands in stations for like 5€)


----------



## k.k.jetcar

> More than 150 years after Camillo Benso, Count of Cavour, helped forge a united Italy by calling for the creation of a world-class rail industry, Finmeccanica SpA (FNC) is closing in on selling what’s left.
> 
> Finmeccanica, whose units make AW139 helicopters and parts for Boeing Co.’s 787 Dreamliners, said yesterday it received an offer from Hitachi Ltd. for its AnsaldoBreda SpA rail unit, as Chief Executive Officer Mauro Moretti focuses on faster-growing helicopter, aerospace and defense-electronics businesses and cutting debt.


http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...-rail-unit-sale-150-years-after-cavour-vision


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## rodineisilveira

*Pendolino*



Suburbanist said:


> TrenOk was a short-lived low-cost train service unveiled by Trenitalia 10 years ago. They put some ETR-450 on direct Bari-Roma and Roma-Milano services, and sold cheap tickets online.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was an attempt to put up a fight with low-cost airlines, but they managed, most and foremost, to siphon passengers from other non-high speed trains in these routes.


Say, this is the famous _Pendolino_ train, which, during years, made the Rome-Milan route.


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## k.k.jetcar

^^
Apparently there are only a couple of these units left in regular use, on the Rome-Reggio-Calabria service.


----------



## VITORIA MAN

the spanish pendolino version ( renfe 443 serie ) 1977








http://loxos.webcindario.com/Unidades Electricas/Dibujos Serie 4xx/443a.jpg


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/financial/italy-to-sell-40-stake-in-fs-by-2016.html?channel=542
> 
> *Italy to sell 40% stake in FS by 2016*
> Thursday, November 20, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _ITALY's economy minister Mr Giancarlo Padoan has announced that the government is planning a "quick" partial-privatisation of Italian State Railways (FS) in a bid to reduce the public debt and improve the competitiveness of the railway in the high-speed rail and regional public transport markets_
> 
> During a meeting with transport and infrastructure minister Mr Maurizio Lupi and a delegation of senior FS managers this week, Padoan said the government intends to proceed with the sale of a 40% stake in FS, describing the decision as "an important opportunity to enhance a company that has been an engine of modernisation in Italy."
> 
> A taskforce will now discuss the terms of the privatisation process, which should be completed by the end of 2015 or early 2016.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...ubling-project-moves-forward.html?channel=537
> 
> *Italian track-doubling project moves forward*
> Wednesday, December 03, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _ITALIAN State Railways (FS) has submitted detailed designs to the Ministry of Infrastructure and Transport for a €1.5bn project to construct a second track on the Andora – Finale Ligure section of the Ventimiglia – Genoa line in Liguria_
> 
> The project involves constructing a new 31.9km line, running inland from the existing coastal route, which due to the mountainous terrain will involve the construction of 25km of tunnels.
> 
> The initial construction lot will be worth around €220m and will cover road access, preliminary works, and preparations for tunnelling.
> 
> FS says tendering will begin as soon as the Interministerial Committee for Economic Planning (CIPE) has approved both the final design and the neccessary funding


----------



## brick84

*Candido (BZ) - Trentino Alto Adige*




ETR 170.005 "Flirt" - SAD - San Candido (BZ) by Gualtiero Palermo, on Flickr


----------



## rodineisilveira

*The Spanish Pendolino version, parked in Barcelona*



VITORIA MAN said:


> the spanish pendolino version ( renfe 443 serie ) 1977
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://loxos.webcindario.com/Unidades Electricas/Dibujos Serie 4xx/443a.jpg


Judging by the photo, this Spanish _Pendolino_ version (from RENFE) appears parked in the Plaza de Francia station (in Barcelona), beside the Talgo train.
Which routes this Spanish _Pendolino_ version operated?


----------



## brick84

*Alì Terme (ME), Sicily*










[/url]Novembre 2014 - Costeggiando il Mar Ionio by AFS Messina -> www.a-f-s.it, on Flickr


----------



## VITORIA MAN

rodineisilveira said:


> Judging by the photo, this Spanish _Pendolino_ version (from RENFE) appears parked in the Plaza de Francia station (in Barcelona), beside the Talgo train.
> Which routes this Spanish _Pendolino_ version operated?
> 
> i think its atocha station in madrid
> only one train was manufactured
> routes madrid albacete ( 1979 )
> madrid jaen ( 1980-82 ) , then as a tourist train ...
> in spain , prefered talgo pendular
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.railwaymania.com/docs/1/talgo_018.jpg


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...onal-contract-in-south-tyrol.html?channel=537
> 
> *Trenitalia secures South Tyrol regional contract*
> Wednesday, December 10, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _ITALY's autonomous province of South Tyrol has extended its agreement with Trenitalia to provide regional services up to 2024 in a €36m per year contract_
> 
> The contract was awarded without a tender and foresees that Trenitalia will provide 2.7 million train-km per year, which encompasses half of all South Tyrol's rail services, with the cost falling to €12.9 per-km from €13.5 under the previous contract.
> 
> The costs include contributions from the state for the purchase of new trains. Trenitalia has ordered seven Stadler Flirt EMUs to operate services in the region which will be delivered in 2017 at which point all of the region's services will use Stadler Flirts. South Tyrol's local transport authority STA ordered eight of the EMUs in 2008, five of which are now operated by Trenitalia and three by SAD Local Transport


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## voltrega62

rodineisilveira said:


> Judging by the photo, this Spanish _Pendolino_ version (from RENFE) appears parked in the Plaza de Francia station (in Barcelona), beside the Talgo train.
> Which routes this Spanish _Pendolino_ version operated?


This picture is taken in Madrid-Atocha. Plaza de Francia do not exist, The name of this station are Barcelona-Termino, today Barcelona-Estacio de França.


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## JumpUp

Hey!

I need your help. I am in Italy to travel with the last "old: Pendolino ETR 450.
They should be in service in IC 552/553 and 560/561 today and tomorrow. Then the age of ETR 450 is finished!

I am sitting in IC 552 right now. Unfortunately it is a classic IC coach train, no ETR 450.


So my question to you:
Where can I use the Pendolino 450 today or tomorrow? Could somebody of you (I don't speak Italian) check an Italian train Fan-page?
Or ask in an Italian railway forum for me?


Thank you!


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## brick84

*Villarosa (EN), Sicily *

'D345 1121' and 'E636 128' 












by Antonio on Flickr


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## brick84

*Railway station in Bari Airport, Apulia*












http://primo-magazine.blogspot.it/2013_07_01_archive.html


----------



## brick84

*Carrubba, near Giarre (CT), Sicily*

_Messina-Siracusa railway line_












by Antonio on Flickr


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## brick84

*Isola del Cantone (Genova)*











by Luca Xavier Bozzo on Flickr


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## brick84

*Agrigento-Palermo railway line, Sicily*

_near Cammarata-San Giovanni Gemini (AG)_












by Wayne Hopkins on Flickr


----------



## dimlys1994

From Global Rail News:



> http://www.globalrailnews.com/blog/...pgrade-conventional-and-regional-rail-routes/
> 
> *Italy given €950 million loan to upgrade conventional and regional rail routes*
> 2 Feb, 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Italy’s Minister of Economy and Finance has signed a loan agreement with the European Investment Bank (EIB) and MEF worth almost a billion euros to upgrade conventional and regional rail lines in the country.
> 
> Minister Pier Carlo Padoan signed the deal alongside EIB vice-president Dario Scannapieco and the director general of the Treasury, Vincenzo La Via
> 
> ...


----------



## brick84

*Cefalù, Sicily*











http://www.miol.it/


----------



## brick84

*Paceco (TP), Sicily*











by Fabio Miotto on Flickr


----------



## TedStriker

I had read recently that the intermodal loading profile for Bologna has now been enlarged to the P400 profile and already according to Ship2Shore Kombiverkehr either is now operating or is planning to operate a P400-capable service between Bologna and Frankfurt. The full news story is behind a paywall and the Kombiverkehr website isn't yet making any mention of this service. 

I must confess I wasn't expecting RFI (Rete Ferroviaria Italiana) to upgrade any of the lines South of Verona, Milan or Turin anytime soon to the P400 profile, so I'm pleasantly surprised. 

Is this new P400 route only for trains that go via Modena, Parma and Piacenza or does the upgrade also apply to the route via Ferrara, does anyone know?


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## TedStriker

^^

Coccodrillo, I suspect that you will be able to provide more information on the P400 projects of RFI.


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## TedStriker

I have just found this story which Google has kindly translated into some kind of English.


"Arrives in Bologna from Frankfurt the first train of semi-encoded P400

Ricci is a historic turning point for freight in Italy

At the railway terminal of the Bologna is coming the first train test semitrailers (mega) loaded on wagons that departed from Frankfurt and is operated by the German Kombiverkehr with the Italian railway company Rail Traction Company (RTC).

This was announced HIL, the network consists of Bologna Interport Spa & Terminals Italy Srl with the intent to enable new rail services for the benefit of the national production system, explaining that the train will run along the Brenner line inaugurated in 2010 by the Italian Railway that on the section Verona-Bologna, has upgraded to code PC / 80 and P400 to accommodate high cube containers and semi-trailers with a height four meters.

The train - has specified HIL - will be on hand all weekend with the prospect of increasing frequencies when the service will be consolidated and aims to all logistics operators and transport that have the need to move, even with their own equipment, goods flows to and from Frankfurt.

It is - said the president of Interporto Bologna Spa, Alessandro Ricci - "a historic turning point for freight in Italy. Quite a challenge for all stakeholders involved, and whose aim is to consecrate Bologna hub for the ports of the Tyrrhenian (Livorno and La Spezia) and the Adriatic (Ravenna and Ancona) even for short sea traffic. ""


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## brick84

*Railway station of Licata (Sicily)*

















































Ticket office:











by night










https://www.facebook.com/pages/Stazione-di-Licata-centrale/523177854404889?fref=ts


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## brick84

*RFI: 35 mln invest in Sicily for Canicatti'-Gela-Comiso*












*(AGI) - Caltanissetta, February 9* - It Will be strengthened the railway line '_Canicatti'-Gela-Comiso_', that cuts the southeastern Sicily through the provinces of Agrigento, Caltanissetta and Ragusa. The project infrastructure and technology from 35 million euro will start in March and will be '_completed within the year_' . Planned the construction of a fixed link to the airport Comiso "Magliocco" (Ragusa).
This was announced during a meeting held at the City of Gela, and 'was the president of the Italian railway network, Dario Lo Bosco, the presence of the regional president, Rosario Crocetta, and Mayor Angelo Fasulo. With Lo Bosco, Andrea Cucinotta, Investment Department, Giovanni Di Liberto, the Territorial Direction Production, and the Director of Works of the work. _The planned measures will improve the line and reduce travel times. From Canicatti 'you can' reach Comiso in 1 hour and 40 minutes against the current two hours; Gela in Comiso in 55 minutes, 10 less than the time it takes today. Intermodal transport, also will derive 'benefits from both the airport link comisano "Pio La Torre", both from the more' simplified access to logistics centers, port and industrial entire basin_. The President, The Woods, in stressing the importance of the work, "the result of a commitment made with the territory," he reiterated that "the South and 'central to the policy of RFI."


----------



## Coccodrillo

TedStriker said:


> I must confess I wasn't expecting RFI (Rete Ferroviaria Italiana) to upgrade any of the lines South of Verona, Milan or Turin anytime soon to the P400 profile, so I'm pleasantly surprised.
> 
> Is this new P400 route only for trains that go via Modena, Parma and Piacenza or does the upgrade also apply to the route via Ferrara, does anyone know?


Basically every mainline north of the Turin-Milan-Bologna-Venice-Trieste axis is or will be enlarged to P400 profile. That's quite easy, since the Brenner and Pontebbana already have new big tunnels*, and lines in the Padana plain are basically tunnel-free (well, there are a few, but not more than a half a dozen and short).

A map of what is planned by RFI can be seen here: http://www.intermodale24-rail.net/l...o-ind-FS-milano_SLIDE-SVILUPPI-RETE-merci.JPG

Source: http://www.intermodale24-rail.net/linee/upgrading-infrastruttura.html

sagome = loading gauges
moduli = train lengths
P/C 45 is equivalent to P380 (roughly)
P/C 80 is equivalent to P400

The Bologna-Florence line will be challenging to adapt, and I wonder if RFI really do that by 2017, since it has many tunnels (the longest at 18.5, 7.2 and 3 km). The Adriatic coast line is long, but most long tunnels there have been rebuilt in the last 20 or so years to replace old single track sections.

One notable line(s) that will not be adapted is the Milan-Genoa one, since they hope to build a new 27 km base tunnel before 2030. The existing lines, shown in orange, is just P/C 22 or P342! (there are two parallel double track lines, the one to be opened in 2030 will be the third parallel one-the so called Terzo Valico or "third pass railway").

*the Brenner railway when opened in 1867 had very few tunnels, many new long tunnels were built from the 1990s but already with a large loading gauge. The Pontebbana railway was also basically newly built replacing an old single track line.


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## TedStriker

Thanks for reminding me of these maps. 

Well if these P400 network plans will be ready by 2017 Cemat, Hupac and Kombiverkehr will be very happy indeed. I expect that Ancona and Bari, for example, will be very useful sources of piggyback traffic for these operators.


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## Suburbanist

I wonder what will the future reserve for the Pistoia-Bologna railway... It was an important redundancy before the new HS line, now it is a third link between Bologna and Toscana.


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## brick84

*Terme Vigliatore (ME), Sicily*


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## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...n-fleets-launched-in-tuscany.html?channel=529
> 
> *New train fleets launched in Tuscany*
> Monday, February 16, 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _THE launch of two new rolling stock fleets for the Italian region of Tuscany was marked at Florence Santa Maria Novella station on February 13, when trains of both types were formally presented to regional president Mr Enrico Rossi by Mr Orazio Iacono, Trenitalia's national director of regional transport_
> 
> From the second half of this year 12 Alstom Jazz EMUs will be introduced on Florence – Prato – Pistoia, Florence – Valdarno and Florence – Empoli services. The 160km/h articulated trains will seat up to 290 passengers with two wheelchair spaces. The fleet is part of a €450m order for 70 trains awarded to Alstom by Italian State Railways in November 2012. The trains are based on Alstom's Coradia Meridian platform and are being assembled at the company's Savigliano plant
> 
> ...


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/main-line/trenitalia-cuts-sicily-train-ferries.html?channel=524
> 
> *Trenitalia cuts Sicily train ferries*
> Wednesday, February 18, 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _TRENITALIA has announced plans to remove two of its train ferries from the Straits of Messina, which will result in the loss of its daytime inter-city services from the Sicilian cities of Palermo and Siracuse to Naples and Rome, and the overnight service to Milan_
> 
> Trenitalia says it will save €46m per year by cutting the services which will result in around 100 job losses. The changes are due to take place in June and will leave only one overnight sleeper service between Rome and Sicily with passengers forced to change from the train to the ferry and to a different train following the crossing. Currently passengers can travel in the same rail vehicle across the short sea crossing four times every day
> 
> ...


----------



## Insulateshipper

FSI save the train ferries, they will also try to reduce the time between Rome and Palermo in order to be more competitive. Find here the link of ferrovie.it news :
http://http://www.ferrovie.it/portale/leggi.php?id=3469


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## TedStriker

So far the news stories I've read seem to be focusing only on the withdrawal of the train ferry services in the context of passenger trains. 

There's a quite a bit of freight traffic between Sicily and the mainland. Do the freight cars move in different train ferries or will the remaining ferries be adequate for cargo trains?


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## MajKeR_

dimlys1994 said:


> From Rail Journal:
> 
> (...)


One on the right side is also brand new diesel unit Pesa Atribo - ATR220Tr. Trenitalia ordered 40 of these (with option to order 20 extra ones) in Pesa Bydgoszcz in 2013 and all are to be delivered from November 2014 till July 2015. Actually Pesa has a newer model which might be seen as successor of Atribo - Link (a few ones are being used by Polish railways, 31 by České dráhy, Deutsche Bahn ordered 71 units, Regentalbahn is close to enter into services 12 and Niederbarnimer Eisenbahn ordered 9 of these), but Atribos are already being used in Italy: 27 by Ferrovie del Sud Est (in Apulia, since 2008), 2 by Ferrovie Nord Milano (since 2009) and 12 by Trasporto Passeggeri Emilia-Romagna (since 2009).

Those new Atribos will be used in Tuscany, Abruzzo, Campagna, Calabria and Marche.

It's how the first unit looked during leaving Pesa's factory:


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## brick84

TedStriker said:


> There's a quite a bit of freight traffic between Sicily and the mainland. Do the freight cars move in different train ferries or will the remaining ferries be adequate for cargo trains?


Yep, the freight cars move in different train ferries.


'_Train' ferries:_



































_'Car' ferries:_


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## brick84

^^










http://www.ferrovieincalabria.com/2013/08/buon-lavoro-messina.html


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## M-NL

I'm a bit confused right now. Several sources from around the world, for instance this one, report that Hitachi and Finnmechanica reached a deal this night to sell AnsaldoBreda to Hitachi. 
An Italian site however still mentions it is only a 'definitive offer' and a final decision by Finnmechanica is yet to be made.
Does anybody have more insights?


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## brick84

*Catania, Sicily*

'Ferrovia Circumetnea'

_'Catania-Borgo' station_




















by Christian Rohleder on Flickr


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## brick84

brick84 said:


> *RFI: 35 mln invest in Sicily for Canicatti'-Gela-Comiso*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(AGI) - Caltanissetta, February 9* - It Will be strengthened the railway line '_Canicatti'-Gela-Comiso_', that cuts the southeastern Sicily through the provinces of Agrigento, Caltanissetta and Ragusa. The project infrastructure and technology from 35 million euro will start in March and will be '_completed within the year_' . Planned the construction of a fixed link to the airport Comiso "Magliocco" (Ragusa).
> This was announced during a meeting held at the City of Gela, and 'was the president of the Italian railway network, Dario Lo Bosco, the presence of the regional president, Rosario Crocetta, and Mayor Angelo Fasulo. With Lo Bosco, Andrea Cucinotta, Investment Department, Giovanni Di Liberto, the Territorial Direction Production, and the Director of Works of the work. _The planned measures will improve the line and reduce travel times. From Canicatti 'you can' reach Comiso in 1 hour and 40 minutes against the current two hours; Gela in Comiso in 55 minutes, 10 less than the time it takes today. Intermodal transport, also will derive 'benefits from both the airport link comisano "Pio La Torre", both from the more' simplified access to logistics centers, port and industrial entire basin_. The President, The Woods, in stressing the importance of the work, "the result of a commitment made with the territory," he reiterated that "the South and 'central to the policy of RFI."


^^

Propedeutic works in *Licata (Agrigento)*




























https://www.facebook.com/LicataPatriaNostra?fref=ts


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## AlexNL

M-NL said:


> I'm a bit confused right now. Several sources from around the world, for instance this one, report that Hitachi and Finnmechanica reached a deal this night to sell AnsaldoBreda to Hitachi.
> An Italian site however still mentions it is only a 'definitive offer' and a final decision by Finnmechanica is yet to be made.
> Does anybody have more insights?


From the official press release:


> The simultaneous closing of the transactions is expected later this year and is subject to certain customary conditions, such as regulatory and antitrust approvals.


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## brick84

*Railway Station of Catania-Bicocca, Sicily*












by Nicola - E636.128 on Flickr


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## brick84

*Quero Vas (BL), Piedimont*












by  Ferrovie dello Stato on Flickr


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## brick84

*San Candido (BZ), Trentino Alto Adige*












by Ferrovie dello Stato on Flickr


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## Coccodrillo

brick84 said:


> *Quero Vas (BL), Piedimont*


Quero and Vas (Quero-Vas is the name of the station serving both villages) lie in Veneto, not Piemonte.



brick84 said:


> *Innichen-San Candido (BZ), Südtirol-Trentino Alto Adige*


Fixed!

Otherwise, thanks for the photos you post here, but maybe you could group them in a single post to avoid lengthening the thread too much.

Altrimenti, grazie per le foto, anche se magari potresti raggrupparle in futuro in uno stesso post per non allungare troppo il thread.


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## Suburbanist

Coccodrillo said:


> Otherwise, thanks for the photos you post here, but maybe you could group them in a single post to avoid lengthening the thread too much.
> 
> Altrimenti, grazie per le foto, anche se magari potresti raggrupparle in futuro in uno stesso post per non allungare troppo il thread.


I'm sorry, but isn't it better to have less pics per post?

USing it on a mobile device is much better without threads that have dozens of pics each! I'd rather have the least amount of pics per thread possible. Or it takes forever to load and scroll.


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## Coccodrillo

I agree on a reasonable limit of photos per thread, but if most posts contain only text, then it is better to group photos in just one or two posts.

In general, I think that many pics = no pics (I mean that it is better to have a few representative photos thatn dozen of photos similar to each other - I'm not referring to this thread).


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## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...uscan-track-doubling-project.html?channel=537
> 
> *Funding agreed for Tuscan track-doubling project*
> Friday, March 06, 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _THE president of the Italian region of Tuscany Mr Enrico Rossi announced on March 2 that the regional government has secured a €200m loan to finance track-doubling on the 44km Pistoia – Lucca line, which is used by around 50 trains a day_
> 
> Tuscany will contribute €235m to the project, including €35m in public funds to eliminate several level crossings on the route, while the remaining €235m will come from the Italian government through the Unblock Italy programme
> 
> ...


----------



## brick84

*Works on Siracusa-Gela-Canicattì railway line (Sicily)*

Update.

_Here is in Licata (AG)_





brick84 said:


> https://www.facebook.com/LicataPatriaNostra?fref=ts


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## Insulateshipper

Cervo, Imperia, Liguria


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## brick84

brick84 said:


> *Works on Siracusa-Gela-Canicattì railway line (Sicily)*
> 
> _Here is in Licata (AG)_


^^
Works going on..




brick84 said:


> https://www.facebook.com/LicataPatr...5612171224/912134975504621/?type=1&permPage=1


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## Insulateshipper

A view of the new porta suza station in Turin.


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## dimlys1994

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...iew/view/trenitalia-orders-more-vivaltos.html
> 
> *Trenitalia orders more Vivaltos*
> 01 Apr 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ITALY: Trenitalia has placed an order for a further 70 Vivalto double-deck regional coaches, AnsaldoBreda announced on April 1.
> 
> The €98m order is an option on a contract signed in March 2010. It covers 14 push-pull driving cars to be manufactured at AnsaldoBreda’s plant in Pistoia, and 56 intermediate coaches which will be produced in Reggio Calabria.
> 
> A six-car Vivalto set has 724 seats and a total capacity of more than 1 500 passengers. The maximum speed is 160 km/h


----------



## Verso

poinc said:


> There will be any high speed rail between Trieste and Venice in the future?


You should tell us that since you live in Trieste. :lol:


----------



## Jasper90

poinc said:


> There will be any high speed rail between Trieste and Venice in the future?


As far as I know, they're only planning to speed the line up to 200 km/h.
Our politicians have been discussing a new high speed line for a long time, with two different proposals, but I think they've finally set down for just an update of the existing line


----------



## brick84

Suburbanist said:


> This line is very slow but I believe it would have, as some other lines in the island, a large touristic potential if marketed right with new rolling stock.


Yes, the line is very slow but there are work in progress for increase the speed and the comfortable in stretch among Gela and Canicattì (AG) 














*Here's in Licata *



















https://www.facebook.com/LicataPatriaNostra?fref=ts


----------



## brick84

*Taormina (ME), Sicily*













Isola Bella by Matteo Rovatti, su Flickr


----------



## ramakrishna1984

*Frecciarossa 1000 Very High Speed Train*

Wow.. simply amazing, recently Italian transport operator Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane hosted the inaugural journey of the V300ZEFIRO very high speed train, known as the Frecciarossa 1000 in Italy & it's inaugural journey from Milan to Rome on 25 April 2015.


----------



## kokomo

kokomo said:


> Hi, I've downloaded this picture for my desktop and I guess it's from a German station. Any idea which is?


From the German forum they have sent me here suggesting it was Milano Centrale. I have been there a month ago, and it didn't look like it.

Any suggestions if this photo could have been taken in Italy?


----------



## Jasper90

kokomo said:


> From the German forum they have sent me here suggesting it was Milano Centrale. I have been there a month ago, and it didn't look like it. Any suggestions if this photo could have been taken in Italy?


It's definitely Milan Central station 
The picture is a bit misleading: the cover is made of iron and glass, so it's transparent and not white. If you visit it during the day, you can see the blue sky through


----------



## Rebasepoiss

^^ There is actually Google Street View inside Milano Central Station: https://goo.gl/maps/uq4J8


----------



## Insulateshipper

Milan central station:


----------



## kokomo

What a beautiful sight! One of the prettiest train station I have ever been to!
Bellisima!!!!


----------



## Insulateshipper

Bordighera, Province of Imperia, Liguria


----------



## brick84

*Railway station of Noto, Sicily*













by Roberto Copia, su Flickr


----------



## brick84

*Railway station of Falconara (CL), Sicily
*

The works to increase the speed among Canicattì (AG) and Comiso (RG)


(taken by me the last week)





































The new railways next to Licata (AG)


----------



## kokomo

What does the white triangle with the black border mean in the signs? I see it quite often in the light signs along the track


----------



## narkelion

You mean these:










?

If yes, they mean that the train must always be under 30km/h (or 60km/h) while approaching a exit switch.

This triangle may be used only in tracks from which the train can only start from zero km/h. For example, in stations.


----------



## kokomo

Thanks, grazie!


----------



## brick84

*Touristic railway tour in Agrigento's 'Valle dei Templi' for summer 2015*











for information: http://www.ferroviekaos.it/


----------



## MarcVD

So this line from Agrigento to Porto Empedocle has been completely rebuilt 
and electrified, jut to run on it one historical/excursion round-trip train every
week during the summer season ???

hno:


----------



## Verso

_Ferrovie Kaos_? Great name! :lol:


----------



## Coccodrillo

The short section to Porto Empedocle was closed to passengers in 1976 and since then has only seen some freight trains and some special/touristic passenger trains, but has never been closed.

Some years ago it appeared on Trenitalia's official timetable, with trains shown as running only on two days each February. Certainly the least frequent regular (i.e. appearing in an official timetable, not counting special journeys not published in printed timetables) passenger railway in Italy, and maybe in the world.

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrovia_Palermo-Agrigento-Porto_Empedocle


----------



## brick84

MarcVD said:


> So this line from Agrigento to Porto Empedocle has been completely rebuilt
> and electrified, jut to run on it one historical/excursion round-trip train every
> week during the summer season ???
> 
> hno:


No, it is a closed line and the 'Ferrovie Kaos' group try to promote and recover this line through this special events with a touristic tour into archeological park of 'Valle dei Templi' (World's UNESCO Heritage)


----------



## brick84

^^










https://www.facebook.com/ferrovie.kaos


----------



## Nexis




----------



## brick84

*Marsala (TP), Sicily*












by Claudio Gori, su Flickr


----------



## brick84

*Railway line Palermo-Catania, Sicily*

_Passing through Catania's historical center_











by _*Roberto.palermo*_


rest of reportage:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=586148&page=12


----------



## brick84

*Rapallo (GE), Liguria*

_InterCity 35080 La Spezia Centrale 16.37 - Milano Centrale 19.55
Rapallo (GE), 12/07/2015_











by Andrea Sosio, su Flickr


----------



## brick84

*Milan Central Station*











by Franz Toomiste, su Flickr










by Patrick van der Ven, su Flickr


----------



## brick84

*Trip from Palermo to Catania by train*




Roberto.palermo said:


> Paesaggi incantevoli tra Marianopoli e Caltanissetta:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stazione di Xirbi, linea proveniente da CL centrale:
> 
> 
> Due vecchi E646:
> 
> 
> 
> image share
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> upload
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> upload


----------



## brick84

*Palagonia (CT), Sicily*

_Catania-Gela railway line_












by Antonio, su Flickr


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...valley-electrification-plans.html?channel=537
> 
> *Venosta Valley electrification plans revealed*
> Friday, September 18, 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _PLANS for the electrification of the 60km Merano - Malles Venosta Valley line in northern Italy were presented to local mayors on September 17 by South Tyrol provincial councillor for mobility Mr Florian Mussner and the president of South Tyrol Transport Authority (STA) Mr Martin Ausserdorfer_
> 
> The line reopened in 2005, 25 years after it was closed by Italian State Railways (FS), and ridership has surged over the last decade to around 2 million passengers a year
> 
> ...


----------



## Lionia

I would like to take a train and travel on the hill and looking the sea from above


----------



## suasion

Spotted in La Spezia earlier this year.


----------



## brick84

*Paceco (TP)*

_Train from Trapani to Palermo_













by Claudio Gori, su Flickr


----------



## brick84

*Cervo, Liguria*












http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=549923&nseq=0


----------



## Transira

I intend to visit Sicilia by train.

Does exist offers (unlimited trips on route)?

Or, I can change the regional train on the route, but no new ticket? Example: route Letojanni - Catania. Stop in Taormina, pictures, and the next regional train to Catania, with same ticket, Letojanni - Catania.


----------



## narkelion

Don't know about any subscription, and I think there isn't. 

Monthly ticket surely exists but may not suit you.

The answer to the second question should be yes: regional train tickets are based on kilometers, hence if you buy a 60km-ticket from city A to city B and decide to stop in city C which is in those 60km, you can board another train to reach city B after.


----------



## brick84

narkelion said:


> Don't know about any subscription, and I think there isn't.
> 
> Monthly ticket surely exists but may not suit you.
> 
> The answer to the second question should be yes: regional train tickets are based on kilometers, hence if you buy a 60km-ticket from city A to city B and decide to stop in city C which is in those 60km, you can board another train to reach city B after.



Yep, it should be so.


----------



## brick84

*Railway station of 'Messina Centrale', Sicily*













by Antonio Riefolo, su Flickr


----------



## brick84

*Rome*
_
Highspeed railway station of 'Roma Tiburtina'_


----------



## brick84

*Turin, Piedimont region*

_Highspeed (AV) railway station of 'Torino Porta Susa'_













by Fabio Tacca, su Flickr










by Aurelio Desogus, su Flickr










by Massimiliano, su Flickr










by Marshall Segal, su Flickr


----------



## mike_nov

Milan – Bologna high-speed railway with a trains Frecciarossa, Frecciarossa 1000 and .Italo.


----------



## Insulateshipper

mike_nov said:


> Milan – Bologna high-speed railway with a trains Frecciarossa, Frecciarossa 1000 and .Italo.
> 
> ^^
> In switzerland we can only dream to have that kind of Highspeed train! Freccia 1000 is the must beautiful train ever in my opinon...Very nice thanks! :cheers:


----------



## mike_nov

Insulateshipper said:


> In switzerland we can only dream to have that kind of Highspeed train! Freccia 1000 is the must beautiful train ever in my opinon...Very nice thanks! :cheers:


In many other countries people can only dream to have so beautiful landscapes like yours


----------



## brick84

*Taormina, Sicily*















by Andy Hoare, su Flickr


----------



## brick84

*Milano Centrale*






















by hanming_huang, su Flickr


----------



## brick84

*Ventimiglia, Liguria*















by Andrea Sosio, su Flickr


----------



## IanCleverly

brick84 said:


> *Milano Centrale*


Is that a (Tap) Water basin by the male with the pink bag by platform 17?


----------



## Jasper90

IanCleverly said:


> Is that a (Tap) Water basin by the male with the pink bag by platform 17?


I think it's an ashtray


----------



## krisu99

IanCleverly said:


> Is that a (Tap) Water basin by the male with the pink bag by platform 17?


Haha, naive question. Travelers are invited to buy beverages in the shopping center the station has been transformed to a couple of years ago. We are in 2015, not 1955!

The basin you refer to is an ash tray for *cough* smokers.

There are/were however old cast iron fountains further down the platforms painted in dark green. If I well remember they even had an additional low bassin for pets. I don't know if they still work or if they haven't been removed by now ... surely some hygienic or security measure does not permit any more such lovely and useful installations nowadays. For sure they disturb business owners of plastic bottle beverage vending machines that work perfectly 24h on 24 365days in a year, therefore water fountains in train stations are usually "broken".
But maybe Milano Centrale is an exception ...


----------



## Verso

krisu99 said:


> Haha, naive question. Travelers are invited to buy beverages in the shopping center the station has been transformed to a couple of years ago. We are in 2015, not 1955!


2016


----------



## Suburbanist

Taormina is a major tourist point in the island, and the views from the railway are stunning, but the station is very poorly connected with the town.


----------



## Insulateshipper

Suburbanist said:


> Taormina is a major tourist point in the island, and the views from the railway are stunning, but the station is very poorly connected with the town.


It's because train station is on sea level and the topography of Toarmina is exceptionally vertiginous! +300 meter directly from the sea...
But for tourist there are funnivia, bus and taxis. 
http://http://www.taorminaservizipubblici.it/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=216&Itemid=57


----------



## Coccodrillo

The stub line to Vigna Clara in Rome should reopen by the end of the year. This line was planned as a new line linking the railways north of Rome, but operated only for 8 days during the football championship in 1990. A second station (in tunnel, unlike the other), Olimpico-Farnesina, was temprarily built as it was near a stadium. This station was quickly built paving one track in the tunnel and using the other to stop trains, so it couldn't be reopened now, as the tunnel would have to be enlarged to built a regular station. The stub might be prolonged to reach the railways on the eastern side of the city in the future, but only one station (Vigna Clara) would be opened for now, and accessible only from the western side.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/41.94988/12.47178
http://www.ferrovie.it/portale/leggi.php?id=738
http://www.ferrovie.it/portale/leggi.php?id=1808
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stazione_di_Vigna_Clara
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stazione_di_Olimpico-Farnesina
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cintura_Nord
http://www.ilmondodeitreni.it/anello.html


----------



## brick84




----------



## Insulateshipper

Torino Porta Suza station


----------



## Insulateshipper

Nuova Stazione Alta Velocità, Reggio Emilia - Emilia Romagna


----------



## Insulateshipper

*Da Napoli a Bolzano col Frecciargento*From the 28 February 2016 it will be possible to reach Napoli from Bolzano with the Frecciargento with intermediate stop in Roma Termini, Firenze Campo Marte, Bologna Centrale, Verona Porta Nuova, Rovereto e Trento.








http://http://www.ferrovie.it/portale/leggi.php?id=1817


----------



## Insulateshipper




----------



## brick84

*Altavilla Milicia (PA), Sicily*














by Andrea Frigerio, su Flickr


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...port-rail-link-moves-forward.html?channel=524
> 
> *Venice airport rail link plans move forward*
> Thursday, March 10, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _PLANS to construct a rail link to Venice Marco Polo International Airport took step forward on March 9, when Mr Enrico Marchi, president of Venice Airport Company (SAVE) and Mr Maurizio Gentile, CEO of infrastructure manager Italian Railway Network (RFI) signed a memorandum of understanding in Rome on the planning, financing, and scheduling of the project_
> 
> The airport line will branch off the Venice - Trieste line north of Mestre at a triangular junction, following the main airport access road, before looping beneath the airport in a tunnel to serve the passenger terminal
> 
> ...


----------



## Noodles7

Orient express at Venezia Santa Lucia:

IMAG2515 by Noodlestaiwan7, on Flickr

IMAG2514 by Noodlestaiwan7, on Flickr

Some more Venezia Santa Lucia shots:

IMAG2521 by Noodlestaiwan7, on Flickr

IMAG2518 by Noodlestaiwan7, on Flickr

IMAG2517 by Noodlestaiwan7, on Flickr


----------



## Bad Worm

What are the chances that in this year Zefiro will start operating at 360km/h? In 2015 it was said, that if all certificates will be obtained in a few months, it is possible to run with 360km/h somewhere in the middle of 2016.


----------



## Holts

*Rome to Sicily Excelsior rolling stock*

A couple of questions please , earlier on this thread there was indication that the Trains from Northern Italy were no longer shunted on to the boat train at Villa San Giovani is that correct ? 

I ask because Trenitalia suggests they still are , also it seems I can still book an Excelsior cabin on the ICN 1959 service from Rome , it comes up as an option , but I have also read Excelsior stock was scrapped as they had been robbed/ vandalised etc , don't fancy paying for something they can no longer offer.

Having experienced the end of carriage toilets on the Thello Paris Milan service which become quite ripe and interesting , having your own loo is quite appealing .

Generally thanks for some great quality pictures throughout the thread.


----------



## davide84

Bad Worm said:


> What are the chances that in this year Zefiro will start operating at 360km/h?


A few.

To operate at 360 km/h in commercial service a train must be tested at 110% of that speed, meaning 396 km/h. The current record is 385 (http://www.ferrovie.it/portale/leggi.php?id=1599) which would enable the train to be authorized travelling at 350 km/h.

The question is: where? At the present, no HS lines have been certified for commercial speed higher than 300 km/h, and I think that the timetable is not ready to accomodate it too. They're working on it... There are a few chances that at least one HS stretch will be authorized to 360 km/h before the end of the year, maybe the same Torino - Milano where they made the Italian record.


----------



## Bad Worm

Thank You for the very useful informations!


----------



## AlexNL

I think that Italo will also receive a speed boost once the speeds on the high speed lines goes up. After all, the AGV was one of the first trains to have a commercial design speed of 360 km/h and I am sure Alstom would love to see their train actually running at that speed somewhere in Europe.


----------



## narkelion

NTV bought a de-powered AGV, incapable of speeds higher than 300km/h.

They'd have to update each trainset.


----------



## davide84

Holts said:


> it seems I can still book an Excelsior cabin on the ICN 1959 service from Rome , it comes up as an option , but I have also read Excelsior stock was scrapped as they had been robbed/ vandalised etc , don't fancy paying for something they can no longer offer.


I was curious and I asked a friend.

Apparently, there are cabins sold as "Excelsior 4", but they are not the same as the original "Excelsior 4" which have been scrapped some two years ago:
http://www.ferrovie.it/portale/leggi.php?id=3395
The "new" Excelsior coaches come from refurbishing of T3S/T2S coaches.


----------



## Holts

davide84 said:


> I was curious and I asked a friend.
> 
> Apparently, there are cabins sold as "Excelsior 4", but they are not the same as the original "Excelsior 4" which have been scrapped some two years ago:
> http://www.ferrovie.it/portale/leggi.php?id=3395
> The "new" Excelsior coaches come from refurbishing of T3S/T2S coaches.




Thank you for that , kind of you to ask , I wondered why I was finding it hard to come across info , I had seen those pictures of the stock awaiting scrap , it's a shame because you would think there was sufficient business from tourism and domestic to keep up a service , I feel sure the drop in use is partially associated with the deteriorating quality , I will try and record and post info on the converted stock if anyone is interested. 

There are of course faster daytime services but over the longer distances it still seems appealing to wake up at destination , albeit you miss the countryside .


----------



## ArtManDoo

Lately I took a train from Roma to Ancona. I saw some bridge structures and new rail substructure between Foligno and Falconara Marittima. Are they going to speed up the slow (compared to 160km/h) sections of track?


----------



## davide84

Holts said:


> it's a shame because you would think there was sufficient business from tourism and domestic to keep up a service , I feel sure the drop in use is partially associated with the deteriorating quality


AFAIK, those cars have been scrapped mainly due to performance problems. In those years it was not uncommon to invest money in small and expensive projects while at the same time the rail world was undergoing tremendous changes...

Anyway, night services have since been dismantled too. I like the idea of the night train, I remember a wonderful journey on the Caledonian Sleeper from Aberdeen to London... but that's another planet, in terms of both travel culture and service quality. In the continent, night services are being canceled in the Nederlands and Germany, too, with Switzerland protesting and Austria/OeBB possibily stepping in to save some relations.

There's a huge debate in Italy on night trains among enthusiasts, but the point is that Trenitalia acts as private company and can do whatever it wants...


----------



## Holts

davide84 said:


> AFAIK, those cars have been scrapped mainly due to performance problems. In those years it was not uncommon to invest money in small and expensive projects while at the same time the rail world was undergoing tremendous changes...
> 
> Anyway, night services have since been dismantled too. I like the idea of the night train, I remember a wonderful journey on the Caledonian Sleeper from Aberdeen to London... but that's another planet, in terms of both travel culture and service quality. In the continent, night services are being canceled in the Nederlands and Germany, too, with Switzerland protesting and Austria/OeBB possibily stepping in to save some relations.
> 
> There's a huge debate in Italy on night trains among enthusiasts, but the point is that Trenitalia acts as private company and can do whatever it wants...



Thanks , I found some pictures of some quite swish looking interiors for the original excelsior , the night trains are being withdrawn quickly across Europe as fast lines become the norm , to Sicily though the day train is still relatively slow , whether it would ever be economic to run a fast line down there would depend on the traffic figures , there does seem to be a number of existing daily trains running but are they well used ?

The Scottish sleeper has a new franchisee who are replacing all the stock which Will have to be worth a try the cost though is quite high .


----------



## brick84

*Ferrovia Circumetnea (Railway surrounding Etna Vulcan), Sicily*













by _*Roberto Meli*_ su railpictures.net


----------



## Mokamal

*Rome-Railway*

News from Prime Minister Matteo Renzi:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...e-minister-matteo-renzi-looks-to-reboot-italy


----------



## IThomas

*Possible marriage between ANAS and FS could reshape Italy's transport sector*
*Il Sole 24 Ore*

The plan of a “marriage” between Italy's state railways company Ferrovie dello Stato (FS) and ANAS  is on the table of their relative ministries (Economy and Transport), but the road to take has not yet been decided.

Unsurprisingly, Renato Mazzoncini, the head of FS, has only gone as far as saying “this is a suggestive and interesting idea,” and “talks are ongoing, synergies are particularly high.” Gianni Armani, president of ANAS, said “there are many analogies in the operating model of Ferrovie and ANAS. By working together we can do better.”

So it looks like the two state controlled companies may be on the way to a merger. If it leads to the creation of “a network company,” the FS CEO would not say no to the idea, provided that everything remains “within the FS holding.” He added that any option “would be neutral to the (planned stock market) listing of the company: any transaction can be done if it allows the group to keep adequate levels of profitability.”

There is a variety of possibilities, but there are only few clear parameters for now. What is certain, however, is that FS aims to make the company an integrated business, dealing with “everything that moves,” to quote Mazzoncini. “What I'm interested in is the public transportation service in Rome, ATAC, the largest Italian market, and it would be absurd that a group like FS was not interested in it,” the CEO said.


----------



## mrsmartman

*500 nuovi posti nelle Ferrovie dello Stato 2016 piano assunzioni info e come presentare una candidatura spontanea*

http://www.entercv.com/500-nuovi-po...-e-come-presentare-una-candidatura-spontanea/


----------



## brick84

*Lercara Friddi (PA), Sicily*














by _Roberto Meli_ su railpictures.net


----------



## brick84

*Ferrovia Circumetnea, Sicily*

_'Adrano Nord' railway station_





















https://www.facebook.com/circumetnea.metro/?fref=ts


----------



## Coccodrillo

^^ Note the stairway down to the platform, and the wide space between the tracks despite the narrow gauge. That's because there is a long term plan to rebuild the line to standard gauge and integrate it into Catania's metro. Just the suburban part, however, the outer section will remain a 950 mm gauge diesel line.


----------



## brick84

^^

Yep! 





brick84 said:


> *Stazione di Adrano Nord*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.circumetnea.it





brick84 said:


> *Stazione di S. Maria di Licodia*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.circumetnea.it


----------



## BlackArt-ist

Nobody mentioned the Dolomites railway reopening project, between Calalzo di Cadore and Dobbiaco/Toblach. Studies are still in the very early stage, but seems like Veneto and South Tyrol authorities are moving forward to make it concrete.









http://corrierealpi.gelocal.it/bell...elle-dolomiti-si-parte-da-10-studi-1.13225811


----------



## brick84

Talking of the *Circumetnea Railway line*, the next 24th May the new train 'Vulcano' begin his service:


----------



## Coccodrillo

^^ Those old diesel railcars doesn't seem ideal in these tunnels, especially in stations...although the service is very sparse (I doubt more than one train per hour or so). At least until recently the Circumetnea did not have any service on Sundays, which is bad as it could be a tourist line like those in central Europe.

^^ The proposed new Dolomites railway would be entirely new, likely with a lot of tunnels and fewer stations than before. One proposal is even for a northern terminus in Bruneck/Brunico rather the original Toblach/Dobbiaco.


----------



## brick84

*Lercara Friddi (PA), Sicily*














by _*Roberto Meli*_


----------



## IThomas

The world’s longest and deepest rail tunnel is officially opened on Wednesday with a range of activities bringing together representatives of different faiths, political viewpoints and countries. The tunnel has taken 17 years and more than 11 billion euro to build. 

The heads of railways in Switzerland, Germany and Italy have agreed a new direct rail connection between Milan and Frankfurt, passing through the Gotthard in one direction, to begin in December 2017.

When the full service opens in December, the tunnel will shave the train journey from Zurich to Milan down to two hours and 40 minutes, roughly an hour less than it currently takes.

http://www.thelocal.ch/20160601/political-and-religious-leaders-gather-for-gotthard-opening


----------



## brick84

*Villalba (CL), Sicily*














by _Roberto Meli_


----------



## IThomas

> *Borletti-Antin buy Italy's Grandi Stazioni for € 953 mln *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Italian investor Borletti Group and specialist French fund Antin have made a successful bid to buy Italy's Grandi Stazioni Retail for 953 million euros.*
> 
> The Grandi Stazioni (some of Italy's largest railway stations):
> * Bari Centrale
> * Bologna Centrale
> * Firenze Santa Maria Novella
> * Genova Brignole
> * Genova Piazza Principe
> * Milano Centrale
> * Napoli Centrale
> * Palermo Centrale
> * Roma Tiburtina
> * Roma Termini
> * Torino Porta Nuova
> * Venezia Mestre
> * Venezia Santa Lucia
> * Verona Porta Nuova
> 
> *The privatisation of Grandi Stazioni Retail, which leases commercial space at large rail stations, is one of several planned sell-offs Prime Minister Matteo Renzi's government hopes can help reduce Italy's public debt.* The company is currently 60 percent owned by Italian state railways company Ferrovie dello Stato, while private investment vehicle Eurostazioni owns 40 percent. A number of other companies had also expressed interest in buying the retail space, including private equity firms Lone Star, BC Partners, Terra Firma, as well as Deutsche Asset Management together with ATP and Poste Vita.


http://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/201...i-la-gestione-dei-negozi-in-14-scali/2809128/
http://it.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idITKCN0YU0ZU


----------



## brick84

*Rome Fiumicino Airport*

_'Frecciargento'_














by chrissarahj, su Flickr


----------



## brick84

*Santa Ninfa, Sicily - Italy*
















by _*Roberto Meli*_


----------



## brick84

_Visit very welcome to Circumetnea Railway!

A delegation of Polish journalists came to Catania to see up close the new train "Volcano".

Journalists have traveled on the train along the slopes of Etna appreciating the landscapes of our territory.

A pleasant and fruitful meeting for Circumetnea Railway, which was able to present their company and the Etna area in prestigious Polish Information Network.
In this regard, the renewal of our rolling stock moving in the right direction:
the second train "Volcano" DM002 concluded all tests and will be put into operation in the coming days, you work to put into operation the train DM003 in the first half of July, the DM004 train will arrive in Catania next week and in the meantime we work to to order the other!_























































source: https://www.facebook.com/circumetnea.metro/?fref=ts


----------



## Sunfuns

That train got to be a big improvement over the ancient rolling stock in use before.


----------



## Paddington

Very scenic the railways.


----------



## k.k.jetcar

> TRENITALIA has selected Alstom and Hitachi Rail Italy (HRI) for two framework contracts with a combined value of up to €4.5bn to supply up to 450 regional trains.
> 
> Lot 1 has been awarded to Alstom and calls for the delivery of up to 150 EMUs each capable of seating at least 200 passengers.
> 
> Under Lot 2, HRI will supply up to 300 Caravaggio double-deck EMUs in a deal with a maximum value of €2.6bn, with an initial order for 39 trains worth €333m. The 160km/h EMUs will be formed of five cars, four of them powered offering acceleration of 1m/s2. Each 136m-long set will accommodate 656 passengers. Production will be carried out at HRI plants in Pistoia, Naples, and Reggio Calabria.


http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...-up-to-450-trains-to-trenitalia.html?channel=


----------



## loefet

Two trains have collided on a line north of Bari in southern Italy.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/italy-train-crash-10-dead-8403500


----------



## Suburbanist

A picture from CNN











> At least 10 people were killed in a head-on collision of two trains Tuesday morning in southern Italy, a firefighter told CNN.
> 
> The crash happened at about 11:05 a.m. in the Puglia region, said Maria Rondenodnone, a volunteer firefighter.
> Others were injured in the crash between the towns of Ruvo di Puglia and Corato, the Italian news agency ANSA reported.


This is the location on Google Maps


----------



## MarcVD

loefet said:


> Two trains have collided on a line north of Bari in southern Italy.
> 
> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/italy-train-crash-10-dead-8403500


The dead toll is 20 now... 

The article speaks about a line with 200 trains per day... If this is true, on a
single track line, that must be some sort of record...


----------



## narkelion

That's way wrong.

Between Corato and Andria there are 60 trains per day. 

http://www.ferrovienordbarese.it/tmp/downloads/orario_ferr_est_2016.pdf


----------



## davide84

MarcVD said:


> The article speaks about a line with 200 trains per day...


It is a mistake. An Italian newspaper cites one of the directors of the company saying that they "manage" almost 200 trains/day, probably referring to their whole network.

The company is Ferrotranviaria Spa, a regional private company that operates both infrastructure and rolling stock in the Bari area.
State company is not involved in the accident.

The stretch were the crash happened was not equipped with any ATP system (Automatic Train Protection) and apparently the signalling system itself is far from being a recent one (station managers phone each other before a train can leave).
If confirmed it is not likely that the cause is some sort of technological failure, just because there is almost no technology installed in the infrastructure.

Other sections of Ferrotranviaria network are currently being updated to most recent standards, but not the one involved today.


----------



## elekto

which EMUs are involved? they look like CAF Civity..


----------



## K_

narkelion said:


> That's way wrong.
> 
> Between Corato and Andria there are 60 trains per day.
> 
> http://www.ferrovienordbarese.it/tmp/downloads/orario_ferr_est_2016.pdf


That should not be a problem for a single track line. The time between those stations is 11 minutes, so even a half hourly service would not be a problem.


----------



## Suburbanist

That line operates with ancient track protection standards based on manual authorization transmitted by phone :bash: 

No protection system let alone any redundancy, whatsoever.


----------



## loefet

elekto said:


> which EMUs are involved? they look like CAF Civity..


By the look of it then a Stadler FLIRT and an Alstom Coradia Meridian, both from Ferrotramviaria.
Info at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrotramviaria


----------



## da_scotty

elekto said:


> which EMUs are involved? they look like CAF Civity..


Yellow/Green one looks like a Flirt.


----------



## Suburbanist

Some images from the accident site from La Repubblica 









.








.








.


----------



## narkelion

elekto said:


> which EMUs are involved? they look like CAF Civity..


The yellow one is a Stadler FLIRT. The blue-white one is a Coradia Meridian by Alstom.



K_ said:


> That should not be a problem for a single track line. The time between those stations is 11 minutes, so even a half hourly service would not be a problem.


In fact is not. The problem is that that stretch of line has no electronic or electric train management. Trains are dispatched via phone between station managers.

It's called "blocco telefonico" in italian. 

Still not really sure on what happened, but probably the two managers (the one in Andria and the one in Corato) give green light to both trains at the same time.

When that happen, there's nothing avoiding the collision. No railway protection, no track circuit saying that the line is already occupied by another vehicle.


----------



## M-NL

Wow. Realise that single track interlocking was invented over 125 years ago, in fact, it was the reason the first forms of signalling was invented in the first place.

If it was caused by an error of one of the station masters, it would be another unfortunate example that human operators are prone to make mistakes and one mistake is enough.

The number of trains suggest this isn't some middle of nowhere line. I hope RFI will install some basic form of protection asap. In Sweden they are testing an ERTMS L3 based system (ERTMS Regional) that could suit this line.


----------



## narkelion

That line isn't property of RFI. It's owner is the Regione Puglia, that left it to Ferrotramviaria SpA.


----------



## hans280

M-NL said:


> Wow. Realise that single track interlocking was invented over 125 years ago, in fact, it was the reason the first forms of signalling was invented in the first place.


I cannot contest that, because I have no prior knowledge of the subject. However, I found a neat little article about the history of railway signalling. It seems to imply that it was in the 1930s that the "telephone block" system was beginning to get replaced in Europe: http://www.railwaysignalling.eu/wp-...6/Railway_Signalling_since_birth_to_ERTMS.pdf.


----------



## skyridgeline

Suburbanist said:


> That line operates with ancient track protection standards based on manual authorization transmitted by phone :bash:
> 
> No protection system let alone any *redundancy*, whatsoever.


Final confirmations between the two drivers before proceeding onto the single track is a redundancy. 

Eu bureaucracy has not reached Italy?


----------



## eu01

skyridgeline said:


> Eu bureaucracy has not reached Italy?


Some forms of bureaucracy are not that bad after all. Unfortunately the "bureaucrats" aren't always able to concentrate on the essentials.


----------



## Suburbanist

This has nothing to do with EU, but with the way non-RFI rail infrastructure has been often left behind in terms of pesky upgrades.


----------



## eu01

^^ In contrary, it does involve EU as well. It's all about creating standards (like "no passenger traffic allowed without specified elementary safety measures"), implementing and enforcing them. Without blaming anybody at EU level, there should exist priorities. Instead of multiplying pointless regulations, concentrate on principal issues, safety in the first row.


----------



## davide84

M-NL said:


> In Sweden they are testing an ERTMS L3 based system (ERTMS Regional) that could suit this line.


Also in Sardinia RFI tested some satellite applications fore "low cost" ERTMS. It was part of official research on ERTMS, not some independent effort.

It should probably be concluded by now, but I am not aware of official updates.

Regarding burocracy, what are you all talking about?  This is one of the sectors where burocracy has improved in efficiency. It is because of burocracy that all regional networks are now passing under supervision of National Authority for Railway Safety, and therefore being forced to implement automatic protection systems. For them is probably just a net cost...


----------



## Suburbanist

eu01 said:


> ^^ In contrary, it does involve EU as well. It's all about creating standards (like "no passenger traffic allowed without specified elementary safety measures"), implementing and enforcing them. Without blaming anybody at EU level, there should exist priorities. Instead of multiplying pointless regulations, concentrate on principal issues, safety in the first row.


Are you aware that common industry transportation standards predate EU by at least 90 years?


----------



## skyridgeline

Suburbanist said:


> Are you aware that common industry transportation standards *predate EU by at least 90 years*?


Apparently (and still).


----------



## eu01

The common standards within the EU rail networks are very much needed. In practice though you have (among else) separate strict national homologation processes concerning the rolling stocks and in the same time obvious compromises on safety like on the line in question.


----------



## M-NL

Every major railway around the world, especially the (former) state railways, seems to consider itself special and unique and therefore fights standardisation. The EU is trying though.
Rolling stock homologation has already been addressed by the EU. For rolling stock already homologated in another country you're only allowed to mandate tests not already conducted elsewhere, for instance track circuit compatibility tests.


----------



## Holts

Surely Token apparatus should be used, I am amazed they were relying on telephone block confirmation , that is so open to failure .


----------



## isak7

If italians think their railways are bad, come to Montenegro and see ours..


----------



## MarcVD

Holts said:


> Surely Token apparatus should be used, I am amazed they were relying on telephone block confirmation , that is so open to failure .


It still exists all over the world, with a surprisingly low level of accidents.


----------



## Nexis

How fast where those trains going?


----------



## narkelion

Nexis said:


> How fast where those trains going?


Both were full throttle, around 100 km/h.


----------



## Coccodrillo

loefet said:


> By the look of it then a Stadler FLIRT and an Alstom Coradia Meridian, both from Ferrotramviaria.
> Info at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrotramviaria


Alstom might call them Coradia Meridian, but they are different from the others trains with that name owned by Trenitalia:

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elettrotreno_FT_ELT_200

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alstom_Coradia

Alstom calls most of its regional trains Coradia, just as Siemens calls them Desiro, but in fact there are many different models carrying a name beginning with Coradia or Desiro. Maybe they lack of fantasy when finding names for their models :nuts: 

The yellow train is a Stadler Flirt, ehich Ferrotranviaria owns 4: two first class only, two second class only, although they have roughly the same capacity, as both have 2+2 seats, not 2+1 as in many first class trains in Europe. There are some differences in the interior. They were initially used to run intercity trains lintegrated with Trenitalia's network. I don't know why they ordered two 1st class and two 2nd class trains, and not just 4 trains with both 1st and 2nd class.


----------



## davide84

MarcVD said:


> It still exists all over the world, with a surprisingly low level of accidents.


Preliminary reports state that there was a combination of extra trains and traffic delays, leading station managers to confusion.

Nothing new: the probability of human error increas with the complexity of the system. The line had recently seen a consistent increase of traffic due to service expansion, and telephone block became inadequate. The tender for its replacement was to be closed at the end of July.

So, yes, telephone block is used all over the world, but the safety it provides depends on the context.

Paradox: this accident demonstrates the correctness of the analysis that justified the upgrade investment, there was just no time to complete it, Murphy's law was quicker.

I don't really know who to blame. I would be angry if someone used the money to build something else saying that the railway is ok as it is, but that's not the case. Maybe they could have waited for the construction works to be completed before increasing the number of trains, but the risk with this method is that you end up doing nothing for decades.


----------



## IThomas

Trenitalia signed framework contracts with Alstom and Hitachi for up to 450 regional electric multiple-units with firm orders for 86 units on August 3, following the announcement of the preferred bidders in June.

The Lot 1 framework agreement with Alstom covers up to 150 medium-capacity single-deck EMUs worth €900m, with an option for maintenance.

The firm order covers an initial 47 trainsets worth €240m which are to be delivered from early 2019. An 'evolution' of the Coradia Meridian family which is in service with Trenitalia, the units are to be supplied in two lengths with up to 321 seats. There will be different configurations for regional and suburban services, with wi-fi, audio-visual passenger information and entertainment and CCTV. Alstom said a 'wide range' of interiors, liveries and optional features would enable each Italian region to customise trains for local services.

The EMUs will offer 'a significant decrease in energy consumption per passenger' compared to the previous generation, despite the greater installed power required for the air-conditioning. Alstom's Savigliano, Sesto San Giovanni and Bologna sites will be involved in design and production.

Hitachi Rail Italy signed the Lot 2 framework agreement for the supply of up to 300 high-capacity double-deck EMUs worth €2·6bn over nine years. An initial €333m firm order for the Emilia Romagna region covers 25 five-car sets with a total capacity of 656 passengers, and 14 four-car units. The 160 km/h EMUs are to be produced at Hitachi's factories in Pistoia, Napoli and Reggio Calabria, with the first to be delivered within 34 months.

The new Caravaggio design 'will be a train never seen before in Europe, in line with the highest safety and comfort standards', said Hitachi Rail Italy CEO Maurizio Manfellotto. 'A vehicle that will change the Italian transport system. We are already working with a team of over 300 people to create the vehicle that, after our Frecciarossa 1000, will become another icon Made in Italy.'

Evaluation of Stadler's top-ranked bid for Lot 3 which covers the supply of diesel multiple-units is still underway.

A total of 11 bidders had prequalified for the three framework agreements, with bids for one or more lots being submitted by Alstom, Bombardier, CAF, Hitachi, Hyundai Rotem and Stadler.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...renitalia-signs-regional-train-contracts.html


----------



## brick84

*Sicily
*
_"Ferrovia Circumetnea"_











Foto by _*Salvo Sallemi*_.
https://www.facebook.com/circumetnea.metro/?fref=ts


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...ss-italian-regional-services.html?channel=524
> 
> *BLS to operate Swiss-Italian regional services*
> Thursday, August 11, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _THE government of the Italian region of Piedmont has awarded BLS, Switzerland, a six-year concession to operate services on the 19km Iselle - Domodossola line from December 11 in a move which will improve regional rail links between the Swiss canton of Valais and northern Italy_
> 
> BLS says it expects to finalise the timetable within the next few weeks for the services, which will start in Brig and operate through the Simplon Tunnel, offering frequent cross-border trains and good connections with other services
> 
> ...


----------



## Harbornite

*[IT] MRCE > ISC ES64F4-016 in yellow livery*

I actually quite like this!












> MRCE ES 64 F4-016, in service of ISC from Italy is the second e-loco to receive the yellow ISC livery. First one was ES 64 F4-110. Thank you Alessandro Destasi.



http://www.railcolor.net/index.php?nav=1405330&id=9129&action=dview


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## StuZealand

Any reported damage to the rail network after the big earth quake today?


----------



## intersezioni

New regional trains TRENITALIA manufactured entirely in Italy Alstom (EX AnsaldoBreda), and Hitachi.
They will be produced 500 new trains for regional transport, four new trains every month

the photos are in the link: http://www.repubblica.it/economia/2...46657653/?ref=HRLV-5#gallery-slider=146655585


----------



## SSCreader

^^ That should have been "Astlom Italia (ex Fiat Ferroviaria) and Hitachi (ex AnsaldoBreda)"


----------



## Wilhem275

StuZealand said:


> Any reported damage to the rail network after the big earth quake today?


All affected lines are reported to be fully operative and with no damages.

But it should be noted that in the directly hit area there are no railways. There were plans for some, in the 1880s, but they were never built.









https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferro...megiani,_Rieti_e_la_regione_Sabina,_1932).svg


Norcia was reached by a former mountain railway, now converted to a bike path.
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrovia_Spoleto-Norcia


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## brick84

*New trains for public transport arrived in Sicily*

_ETR425 Jazz_









http://www.ferroviesiciliane.it/2016...e-etr425-jazz/


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ :bash: :bash: :bash:

every pic of the outdated ferries is a reminder that leaves me bitter for the stalling of the strait bridge project.


----------



## brick84

The works to upgrade the railway line 'Canicattì-Siracusa', from Canicattì to Comiso, has been terminated and the next 19 Sept the railway opened to passengers service.


----------



## brick84

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ :bash: :bash: :bash:
> 
> every pic of the outdated ferries is a reminder that leaves me bitter for the stalling of the strait bridge project.



^^








http://www.ferroviesiciliane.it/2016/04/11/panoramica-sulle-invasature-di-messina/


----------



## IThomas

Trenitalia announced a €4.5 bn investment plan to buy 450 new regional trains (produced by Alstom and Hitachi).
86 new trains will be in operation in Emilia Romagna starting from 2019. 
Trenitalia should sign agreements with other regions like Tuscany, Lazio, Veneto, Liguria, Campania.










http://www.corriere.it/economia/16_...11e6-b7a9-74dcfa8f2989.shtml?intcmp=exit_page


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## Nexis

*Train spotting 200 TRAINS! @ Pineto - ferrovia adriatica - TRAINS GALORE (Italian railways)*


----------



## IThomas

*Investments worth 94 bn in 10 years in new FS plan*

Italian rail company Ferrovie dello Stato (FS) said Wednesday that its new 10-year plan for 2017-2026 provides for investments worth 94 billion euros over a decade. In particular, 73 billion euros will reportedly be invested in infrastructure, 14 billion in rail material and seven in technological development. Over half of the resources pledged for the plan - 58 billion - are reportedly already available. FS President Gioia Ghezzi said the new industrial plan will introduce major changes and bring a "cultural revolution inside the group".

The rail company's chief executive Renato Mazzoncini also said during the plan's presentation on Wednesday that FS will merge with motorway company ANAS. ANAS and rail network Rete Ferroviaria Italiana (RFI) "will become sisters" within the FS holding, the CEO said, saying joint investments and management choices will help save up to 400 million euros as part of the plan.


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## brick84

*Taormina (ME)*














[/url]E464.619 [91 83 2464 619-2 I-TI] by Simone Aveta, su Flickr


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## brick84

*Catania*

"Ferrovia Circumetnea" (railway line surrounding Etna vulcan)

_Railway station of "Borgo"_













https://www.facebook.com/circumetne...917868489919/1771586579756380/?type=3&theater


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## brick84

*Cervo (IM), Liguria*
















by _*Roberto Meli*_ on railpictures.net


----------



## kokomo

Is that an E-424 by any chance? Are they still operational and in that livery?


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## kokomo

brick84 said:


> The works to upgrade the railway line 'Canicattì-Siracusa', from Canicattì to Comiso, has been terminated and the next 19 Sept the railway opened to passengers service.


Is it a really touristic route worth taking?


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## Wilhem275

That's a second-series E428, much bigger than an E424, here used for a recent historical run.
This trip was paid for by a group of photographers since that line will be soon abandoned, replaced by a modern line not following the coastline.

Neither E424s nor E428s are in active service anymore, since many years. I don't even recall seeing an E428 in commercial service.
IIRC the last machines to wear that brown livery disappeared around year 2000.


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## kokomo

Grazie! I thought that XMPR livery had practically made disappear all other colors from the locomotives. That's why I was puzzled


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## MarcVD

kokomo said:


> Is it a really touristic route worth taking?


Yes. And the cities served are each worth a one day stop too, if not more. 

Envoyé de mon GT-I9505 en utilisant Tapatalk


----------



## Suburbanist

Modica and Ragusa (Ibla) are interesting places. They look a bit chaotic though with narrow streets and some crumbling buildings. 

The railway line is slow compared to roads serving the region.


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## MarcVD

Slow, limited frequencies, and above all, subsidised by two different regions, so most circulations end at the last station of the region, which makes through travel more difficult. Same problem as with TER in some french regions. 

Envoyé de mon GT-I9505 en utilisant Tapatalk


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## brick84

kokomo said:


> Is it a really touristic route worth taking?



^^
*The train of the baroque*




















http://www.sicily-holiday.com/en/trains-rails-sicily/76-train-of-baroque.html

http://www.sicily-tourism.com/baroque-itinerary-sicily/

http://www.sicily-tourism.com/the-baroque-train/


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## kokomo

Grazie mille! 

I am planning a trip to Sicily (first) and then some parts of the Mezzo-Giorno for next February and I am a mad train hopper, so I prefer to travel on train as much as possible but I have been warned that Sicily is perhaps more bus-friendly.


----------



## brick84

kokomo said:


> Grazie mille!
> 
> I am planning a trip to Sicily (first) and then some parts of the Mezzo-Giorno for next February and I am a mad train hopper, so I prefer to travel on train as much as possible but I have been warned that Sicily is perhaps *more bus-friendly*.


You're welcome! kay:


(Yep, unfortunately it is so )


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## kokomo

Going from Palermo to Agrigento is feasible by train or do I need to rely on the bus, for instance?


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## MarcVD

As far as I know Palermo-Agrigento is a direct line and quite scenic.

Envoyé de mon GT-I9505 en utilisant Tapatalk


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## Wilhem275

Some views from the soon to be abandoned line in Liguria:


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## brick84

kokomo said:


> Going from Palermo to Agrigento is feasible by train or do I need to rely on the bus, for instance?


No, it is feasibile. It's a good line.
Perhaps the service (mean the regularity) is a little bit uncomfortable.

By the way, for any question.... i'm here kay:


----------



## brick84

*Forza d'Agrò (ME), Sicily*















by Damiano Piovanelli, su Flickr


----------



## Suburbanist

I think the regional government of Sicilia should take some clever marketing notice from the Swiss, and give "names" for some of their regular routes, and put some special trains with extra service. It is possible to travel through mildly scenic railways to the main tourist draws of the island (except Villa Romana del Casale, which requires a bus shuttle from Enna), including the northern and eastern coasts. However, service is often bad, with old trains, plenty of delays, and even until the recent past non-air-conditioned trains (unacceptable in the island). 

With a little work, they could start marketing these trains as touristic routes for foreigners, and get EU funds for 'sustainable tourism' projects in the minor lines. Like they did with the Merano railway in the North... So regulars would have train services and special tourist trains charging higher fees would also use these railways.


----------



## Coccodrillo

The original scenic but single tracked coastal line in Liguria (from the French border to Tuscany) has been slowly replaced over nearly 80 years with new double track sections runnings more inland, and thus with a lot of tunnels. The next section to open will be San Lorenzo-Andora, on 11 December 2016.

It is roughly this: https://www.google.ch/maps/dir/43.9...0x12d26bfdfe24c353:0x466bf7b5b8b70594!1m0!3e0 (you can see short section of railway between on tunnel and the other).

Many photos of the old line can be found on this website, partly with English explanations: http://www.stagniweb.it/

While the new line is faster and double tracked, in the section Savona-Ventimiglia it has around half the number of stations of the old line, and these built are more far from town centres. This means that the new line is useless for local traffic, although many stations on the old line didn't have a frequent service so locals didn't use it a lot.

The section Andora-Diano Marina has already been closed (the last train was an empty stock movement at 2 am on 2.11.2016), while the section Diano Marina-Taggia will close on 27.11.2016.


----------



## kokomo

Coccodrillo, you mean the route the Thello train takes?
I took the Thello from Genova to Nice and it surprised me through how many tiny but pintoresque towns it passed


----------



## brick84

Suburbanist said:


> I think the regional government of Sicilia should take some clever marketing notice from the Swiss, and give "names" for some of their regular routes, and put some special trains with extra service. It is possible to travel through mildly scenic railways to the main tourist draws of the island (except Villa Romana del Casale, which requires a bus shuttle from Enna), including the northern and eastern coasts. However, service is often bad, with old trains, plenty of delays, and even until the recent past non-air-conditioned trains (unacceptable in the island).
> 
> With a little work, they could start marketing these trains as touristic routes for foreigners, and get EU funds for 'sustainable tourism' projects in the minor lines. Like they did with the Merano railway in the North... So regulars would have train services and special tourist trains charging higher fees would also use these railways.


Done. But thanks! 

Last news:



> *"Ferrovia dei Templi", a foreign tour operator commissions a 30-race program on ALn 668.1600
> *
> 03 Novembre 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An unusual way to visit one of the most important tourist districts of Sicily attracts the attention of some foreign operators.
> Fondazione FS communicates that a German tour operator has commissioned a package of historic train routes on the "Ferrovia dei Templi", which departs from Agrigento and reach Porto Empedocle directly leading to the heart of the Archaeological Park, a UNESCO World Heritage Site. The trips will be carried on board of ALn 668.1600 in its original livery in the months of October and November 2016 and February, March and April 2017. There will be 30 races and more than 3,000 tourists, with an average of 100 participants at each event.
> 
> Once again, the historic train is an ideal way to visit the Valley of the Temples, thanks to the strategic stop Tempio di Vulcano, adjacent to the entrance of the Park and Garden of Kolymbethra, transforming the means and the time of transport in a nice experience within the same trip.
> In addition to this, just in order to offer a service to customers and to promote the tourist routes on historical rail vehicles, Fondazione FS opened its own Presidio Turistico inside the Station of Agrigento Centrale, the first of the entire network.
> 
> The "Ferrovia dei Templi" is one of the routes included in the project "Binari senza tempo" with which Fondazione FS has given a new life to lines that are no longer used for local public transport service, thanks to railway tourism, most notably the "Transiberiana d'Italia" that connects Sulmona to Carpinone in the heart of Abruzzo region.


http://www.ferrovie.info/index.php/...commissions-a-30-race-program-on-aln-668-1600


----------



## Coccodrillo

kokomo said:


> Coccodrillo, you mean the route the Thello train takes?
> I took the Thello from Genova to Nice and it surprised me through how many tiny but pintoresque towns it passed


Yes it is this one. You have been lucky to see the now closed section in operation.

You might remember the long underground section around Sanremo, where the line travels through a 13 km tunnel (which includes the underground Sanremo station) and another 7 km tunnel. The new section is 19 km long of which 16 km are in tunnels (although each tunnel is no longer than 3.3 km).

From Andora to the border the line is now mostly new and in tunnel. Here you can see where the new line diverges: https://www.google.ch/maps/place/17...x2df6bb4a0f815b3!8m2!3d43.9848234!4d8.1306998 (it's the new Andora station)

North of that point the new line ends as there is no financing for a new line yet, and as it is not considered a priority, the old line might remain in service for decades to come.

As I said, there are other works going on on the line, so from 2nd November until 11th December the line is cut in two parts with buses replacing it. The section south of Andora (see Google Maps' link above) is now isolated from the rest of the Italian network, and sees a limited operation using rolling stock which has temporarly been left isolated there (although if necessary stock movement could be done sending trains to France and then back to Italy via other lines).

Some pictures of the closed section from StagniWeb: http://www.stagniweb.it/










http://www.stagniweb.it/foto6.asp?File=cervo16b&righe=1&inizio=25&InizioI=1&RigheI=100&Col=5










http://www.stagniweb.it/foto6.asp?File=cervo16b&righe=1&inizio=15&InizioI=1&RigheI=100&Col=5


----------



## kokomo

Yes, I do remember that (the Sanremo tunnel). I do recall tiny stations with single track line. Clearly train could not speed up quite much there, but it was really pintoresque

A couple of pictures (taken last March) from that trip departing from Genova Pza. Principe


----------



## brick84

*Taormina railway station (Sicily)*

upgrade






brick84 said:


> *Tornano a nuova vita le sale d’attesa della stazione FS di Taormina – Giardini*
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ferroviesiciliane.it/201...ttesa-della-stazione-fs-di-taormina-giardini/


----------



## Ghostpoet

http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...es-two-state-owned-companies.html?channel=522



> ITALIAN State Railways (FS) has announced that it has acquired South-East Railways (FSE) and Servizi Automobilistici from the Ministry of Infrastructure and Transport.
> 
> The transaction was completed on November 28 at the headquarters of the Ministry of Infrastructure.
> The transfer will be carried out according to the provisions of the Ministerial Decree of August 4 after a commitment was made to rehabilitate FSE.
> The news comes just three months after IRJ reported that FS would take over the struggling FSE, and the acquisitions are part of FS CEO Mr Renato Mazzoncini’s strategy for the future.


regards, Ghostpoet


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...-lorenzo-section-inaugurated.html?channel=524
> 
> *Andora - San Lorenzo line inaugurated*
> Monday, December 12, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _AN inauguration ceremony for the Andora - San Lorenzo section of the Genova - Savona - Ventimiglia line was held on December 11 with Italy’s vice-minister of infrastructure and transport Mr Riccardo Nencini, Liguria’s governor Mr Giovanni Toti, and regional deputy for occupation, transport, tourism and human resources, Mr Giovanni Berrino, participating in the inaugural journey on the line_
> 
> Italian Rail Network (RFI) president Ms Caludia Cattani was also present along with RFI CEO Mr Maurizio Gentile, Trenitalia’s CEO Ms Barbara Morgante, and Italferr’s CEO Mr Carlo Carganico
> 
> ...


----------



## brick84

*Sicily*

the stretch of _Canicattì-Comiso _(Siracusa-Canicattì railway line) opened to traffic - after upgrading - yesterday


----------



## brick84

*Scicli railway station*

(taken by me yesterday)


----------



## brick84

*"Ferrovia Circumetnea", Sicily*












by _*Francesco Virgillito*_


----------



## brick84

*Catania Centrale, Sicily*






Roberto.palermo said:


> Alcune recenti immagini della Stazione centrale di CT, di giorno 3 mattina:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> con il materiale rotabile in transito: vediamo affiancate una E 464 ed una vecchia E 656:
> 
> 
> Qui due "Minuetti", uno in arrivo da Palermo, l'altro in partenza per Messina:


----------



## brick84

*Caltanissetta Xirbi, Sicily*

_during snowfall in 6th January 2017_





INTER88 said:


> Ho scattato qualche foto alla stazione di scambio Caltanissetta Xirbi in data 6 Gennaio 2017:


----------



## roaddor

Anybody knows if Bernina express is operating these days through Bernina pass? There should be abundant amount of snow up there.

PS: This post went here by mistake, should be part of Switzerland Railways thread.


----------



## brick84

*Pollina (PA), Sicily*

_Intercity Milano C.le-Palermo_














by Damiano Piovanelli, su Flickr


----------



## brick84

_"Transiberiana d'Italia" _

*railway line Sulmona-Carpinone (Abruzzo region)*
















by Alessandra Giansante, su Flickr


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal

http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...veil-double-deck-emu-mock-up.html?channel=529

*Hitachi and Trenitalia unveil double-deck EMU mock-up*
Friday, January 20, 2017










_PRODUCTION of the next-generation double-deck EMU for Trenitalia was officially launched at Hitachi Rail Italy’s (HRI) Pistoia plant on January 20 with the unveiling of a full-size mock-up of the driving vehicle cab end_

Trenitalia awarded HRI a framework contract last August to supply up to 300 Caravaggio regional EMUs with a maximum value of €2.6bn. The initial firm order is worth €333m and comprises 25 five-car and 14 four-car trains

...


----------



## davide84

Fun fact: as we are discussing in the Italian section, these trains *may* be the first italian regional trains equipped with ERTMS.

The italian nickname for them is "Rock", following the music-related tradition (...) started with "Minuetto", "Jazz" and "Swing" EMU/DMU.


----------



## dimlys1994

^^


Esterni Treno Rock by Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane, on Flickr


Esterni Treno Rock by Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane, on Flickr


Interni Treno Rock by Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane, on Flickr


Interni Treno Rock by Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane, on Flickr


Interni Treno Rock by Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane, on Flickr


Interni Treno Rock by Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane, on Flickr


Interni Treno Rock by Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane, on Flickr


----------



## Wilhem275

It's worth noting that this is the first double decker in Italy with an upper deck fully extended above the doors.
This arrangement is well know on Bombardier's Doppelstock driving cars:



















Earlier double deckers in Italy had either the doors over the bogies (thus not providing a flat access):









(based on a French design)

or doors at platform level but limited room in the upper level, as well as cramped stairs:




















The German DoSto's are much taller (+33 cm) and it's simpler to adopt that design. In this case there was some compromise: you can notice that the seats above the doors are raised and there are no windows. Also, the head units have only one set of stairs.

Overall I much appreciate the layout they designed for this train, it's a big improvement from the past and I think it will be a success.


----------



## brick84

*Railway station of Pozzallo (RG), Sicily*

Works for upgrade on railways has been completed





















hosting immagini


----------



## Insulateshipper

brick84 said:


> *Railway station of Pozzallo (RG), Sicily*
> 
> Works for upgrade on railways has been completed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hosting immagini


Is it a south Italy ralways thread or can we have some news or picture form other region how are absolutly more interesting with more project and real modern infrastructure not like sicily how have third world agenda...


----------



## intersezioni

tunnel owl said:


> No, not at all. It depends on the region and community. Vandalism and Graffiti on railway/metro-stations and tracks in Berlin is the same problem like an a more problematic town in Italy as Berlin is a more problematic town in Germany . Sad to say this as a Berliner, but also here bad things like Graffiti and vandalism started in the mid80s.
> 
> Than take a look at Munich and Bavaria. You see the difference travelling along A9. Bridges in East Germany are spread with Graffiti, in Bavaria none is. Poorness of a region may be a reason for devastment. The average GDP of Milan is one of the highest in Europe like Munich or Hamburg. So I guess they have much less problems with vandalism than Sicily.
> 
> Also I had to confirm that germans, using FS train-services, have been surprised by accuracy and easy to understand fare-system for foreigners. Something they are not used to in Germany anymore. Nobody told me, that trains and stations were dirty or ugly


thx 
Our greatest enemy (from Italian) are stereotypes and ignorance of many foreign


----------



## Insulateshipper

Verso said:


> Italians don't care about environment, everyone knows that.


Oh yes??... And we all know that east Europe is Reeeeaaaly preoccupied by ecology , specially ex yougoslavia...
Again you are smaller than an Italian region, what do you mean? Lubjana is smaller than Bergamo how is a small town for Italy. Small country, small problem...


----------



## Verso

:lol:


----------



## tunnel owl

intersezioni said:


> thx
> Our greatest enemy (from Italian) are stereotypes and ignorance of many foreign


The greatest enemy of Europe are sterotypes, ignorance and nationalism. People saying greeks and italians are lazy, germans are nazis, french are not honest are stupid. I´m so ****ed up with that shit. If Europe struggles, qui bono? Europeans don´t.

Sorry, beeing OT


----------



## MarcVD

"Cui bono". With a C.


----------



## Robi_damian

tunnel owl said:


> The greatest enemy of Europe are sterotypes, ignorance and nationalism. People saying greeks and italians are lazy, germans are nazis, french are not honest are stupid. I´m so ****ed up with that shit. If Europe struggles, qui bono? Europeans don´t.
> 
> Sorry, beeing OT


Well, stereotypes are bad, but I think a worse enemy is "whateverism" and "youcannotdoanythingaboutit-ism". Examples include: "big cities will always be messy", "you cannot control your maritime border", "terrorism is unavoidable in open societies", "ageing is natural to developed societies". Of course the Tokyos, Australias, Taiwans and USAs of the world beg to differ on many of these issues, but Europe has a huge deal of "meh" in solving its problems.


----------



## brick84

*Napoli-Afragola AV Station*

update works






'99 said:


>


----------



## brick84

*Milano C.le*






kokomo said:


> Il mio viaggio nel 2015. Il mio viaggio nel 2015. Credo che questa stazione è uno dei più belli che abbia mai incontrato





kokomo said:


> L'anno successivo (2016) sono tornato. Questa volta ho notato che avevano installato i controlli di accesso al settore di binario





Andrea84 said:


> si è mai pensato di far risaltare gli "affreschi" con una illuminazione particolare anche di giorno?
> 
> Nell'attesa del treno:


----------



## JumpUp

Hey,

is it for the new ETR 1000 possible that two trains run coupled together for higher capacity? If yes, what services run with two unites?


Same question for Italo AGV. Do they travel sometimes with two trains?


----------



## Wilhem275

JumpUp said:


> Hey,
> 
> is it for the new ETR 1000 possible that two trains run coupled together for higher capacity? If yes, what services run with two unites?
> 
> 
> Same question for Italo AGV. Do they travel sometimes with two trains?


Double trainsets of the 1000 are undergoing trials in these weeks. They were designed with that option in mind so it should present no problems.

I expect the same option to be supported by the 575 (Italo), but I'm not sure its lenght is under the 200 m necessary to couple two trains together.
Even though, NTV is notably lacking trains to cover all the services it could run, so it is higlhly unlikely to see two trains used for a single service, at least until the new Pendolini will be delivered.


----------



## Suburbanist

NTV should have bought more AGVs instead. I still think they made a major mistake.


----------



## Wilhem275

Suburbanist said:


> NTV should have bought more AGVs instead. I still think they made a major mistake.


In retrospect, given the commercial failure of the AGV product, NTV should have probably stayed away from it in the first place, and go straight for a simpler, cheaper and well-proven train as the Pendolino or something similar.

It's quite easy now to tell that going for an almost prototypical, high end product for its fleet backbone wasn't the best choice for a startup enterprise in a hostile business environment. But in its early years NTV had a very different business model than today's, so the AGV was more consistent to that vision.


----------



## Suburbanist

Yeah, NTV started with this idea of being a premium operator also offering some cheap seats, essentially aiming at beating Trenitalia with offers towards higher and lower end than the Freccia product. 

However, the premium services did not exactly bring the expected market response. I think NTV (and Trenitalia) overestimated the demand for things like onboard meeting rooms and a third category of high-priced business-oriented services, all in the same train. 

Trenitalia also took NTV challenge seriously, widening the scope of dynamic pricing and working to reduce delays and cancellations.

As a result, considering all variables, Italy has the best long-distance railway services in Europe among major countries. They used to say DB's ICE were a better product, but now Trenitalia and NTV are clearly superior considering the services, prices, reliability, quality of rolling stock, online presence etc.

This assessment does not apply to railway links in the islands (where long-distance travel is still offered as if it were 1993), and to a handful of regions, though (the Jonian coast, Aosta, F.V.G.).


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal

http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...ermo-catania-upgrading-works.html?channel=537

*RFI tenders Palermo - Catania upgrading works*
Thursday, April 20, 2017










_ITALIAN Railway Network (RFI) published a tender notice in the Official Journal of the European Union on April 14 for contracts to upgrade the 37km Bicocca - Catenanuova section of the Palermo - Catania line_

The €220m project is due to be completed in 2022 and includes the construction of a second track and renewal of the substructure, signalling, telecommunications, and electrical substations. Bicocca station will be upgraded and a new station will be built at Motta Sant'Anastasia

...


----------



## brick84

Railway station of *Agrigento C.le, Sicily*
















by Tinuzeller, su Flickr










by Tinuzeller, su Flickr










by Tinuzeller, su Flickr









by Tinuzeller, su Flickr


----------



## Suburbanist

It is a nice station that has atrocious train services though.


----------



## MarcVD

Indeed. Notably with the once a day service to, if I remember well, Syracusa, using the DMU seen parked on one of the above pictures...


----------



## brick84

*Barcola, Trieste*
















by _MladjaSRB441 _


----------



## Wilhem275

Today Trenitalia begins to run some services with two ETR 1000 coupled together.










At the moment they're just a Turin - Naples in the morning and Naples - Turin in the afternoon (not the same trainsets though).


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ This bring good memories about the V250, who might one day also be used on Frecciargento trains.


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## brick84

*Saluzzo, Piedimont region*

_under Monviso mountain_

















by Fotografia Ferroviaria Digitale, su Flickr


----------



## GENIUS LOCI

IThomas said:


> *FS, Cdp aim to revolutionate public transports of Italy's largest cities.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"We aim to build at least 7 or 8 subway lines in Milan and Rome" said FS Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane Chief Executive Officer, Renato Mazzoncini.* "The project can be financed by putting together the resources invested by Italian railway state company and Italy's Cassa Depositi e Prestiti, for an estimated total of about 15 billion euros" he explained. *"We are just launching a new phase which will lead us towards an improvement of public transports in Italy's largest cities" said Mazzoncini. Naples and other important cities should be included in the plan in the next years.*
> 
> *The agreement was signed in Rome by FS Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane Chief Executive Officer Renato Mazzocini and Cassa Depositi e Prestiti Chief Executive Officer Fabio Gallia represents a response to the growing need to invest in urban transportation, a crucial sector for sustainable growth.*
> 
> *The accord signals the commitment* of FS Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane and Cassa Depositi e Prestiti *to actively cooperate in identifying and promoting projects related to new works to be carried out* (greenfield initiatives)* and to expanding existing infrastructures* (brownfield initiatives), using an approach which encourages the participation of private capital, including public-private partnership schemes (PPPs). *In this context, both companies are committed not only to improving urban mobility, but also giving impetus to a process of the urban transformation of Italian cities through the creation of a network of new generation integrated services, in favor of the individual person as well as the community.*
> 
> *The role of cities as an economic growth hub and growth generator is significant and increasing. Around 68% of the Italian population lives in urban areas where over 40% of Italian GDP is produced. The development of metropolitan networks is a strategic factor in integrated and sustainable collective mobility that can reduce levels of urban congestion and pollutant emissions, with a positive impact on productivity levels and socio-economic integration between the city center and periphery.* The infrastructure gap to be filled is significant and with a notable impact on the competitiveness of Italian urban centers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Local infrastructure development is at the heart of the our strategy to support the country's sustainable growth. The partnership with FS Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane operates in this direction with the aim of accelerating investment in urban mobility, pushing for a process of 'urban transformation' with multiple positive, economic, social, and environmental impacts helping local communities." said CEO of Cassa Depositi and Prestiti, Fabio Gallia.
> 
> "FS Italiane, having facilitated high-speed travel between Italian cities with our Frecce trains, now commits itself to overcoming the urban infrastructure gap by designing, implementing and managing, in collaboration with local partners and local authorities, the necessary infrastructure" added Mazzoncini.​


...


----------



## aquaticko

*Emilia-Romagna to renew regional train fleet*








*THE Italian region of Emilia-Romagna has agreed a new public transport plan for 2018-2020 which includes the almost total renewal of the train fleet by 2019.*

The deal was signed on December 11 by the region’s president Mr Stefano Bonaccini, the Metropolitan City of Bologna, and public and private partners, in the presence of Italy’s minister of infrastructure and transport, Mr Graziano Delrio, and the regional councillor for mobility and transport, Mr Raffaele Donini. 

The deal envisages the purchase of 75 trains and 600 buses, improving road-rail integration by allowing around 36,000 rail commuters free travel on buses operating in 13 cities in the region, and the introduction of e-ticketing.

By 2019, 86 new Alstom Pop and Hitachi Rail Italy Rock EMUs will enter service to add to the Hitachi Vivalto push-pull double-deck coaches and Stadler Flirt EMUs already in operation. Rock double-deck trains can seat up to 600 passengers, while three-car Pop EMUs have more than 200 seats and the four-car version seats 300 passengers. Both types of train have a maximum speed of 160km/h, are air-conditioned, equipped with CCTV and electric power sockets, and have facilities for disabled passengers.

Next year, the Bologna - Ravenna and Bologna - Rimini lines will be upgraded in order to reduce journey times to 60 and 44 minutes respectively.

From January 2019 services currently operated by Trenitalia and TPER, under a 15-year concession awarded in July 2015, will be merged into a single railway company.

An agreement was also signed on December 11 between the region, Emilia Romagna Railway (FER), and Italian Rail Network (RFI) to transfer the management of the regional rail network to RFI. In addition, the network will be upgraded and safety improved under a 10-year €1bn infrastructure investment plan.

The Italian government, in cooperation with the regions, plans to reclassify some regional lines as railways of national interest, which could include the Parma - Suzzara - Ferrara, Casalecchio - Vignola Reggio Emilia - Sassuolo, and Reggio Emilia - Guastalla lines. The idea is for RFI to take over the management of these lines, thereby reducing the financial burden on the regional governments.


----------



## brick84

*Railway station of Pozzallo (RG), Sicily*

The upgrade works has been terminated.






(my shot)


----------



## The Polwoman

*Italy train crash: Two killed near Milan*

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42816003

At least two people and more than a hundred injuries have occured at a commuter train derailment between Treviglio and Pioltello near Milan. The derailment happened just before 7:00am local time. There is no clear cause yet.


----------



## NordikNerd

*Derailed commuter train*

A very serious train accident, which caused three deaths and numerous injuries, occurred at 6:57 am this Thursday morning north of Milan. A commuter train from Trenord, the regional 10452 departed from Cremona at 5.32 am bound for Milan Porta Garibaldi, was derailed at Seggiano di Pioltello. The identity of the victims is being investigated but, according to what has been learned so far, it would be three women. There are then 10 people in very serious conditions (red code), 20 in yellow code and over 80 in green code (with bruises but in good condition).


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## GENIUS LOCI

^^
Unfortunately death toll rises to 4

Apparently a switch malfunction caused the derailment


----------



## brick84

*Messina C.le *and* Messina Marittima*, *Sicily*

from above


----------



## brick84

*Railway station of "Agrigento C.le", Sicily*




(taken by me the last week)


----------



## RGR 523

Tunnel de base du Brenner




> *Brenner : un nouveau tunnel à travers les Alpes*
> 
> Cet ouvrage, qui sera l’un des plus longs du monde, maillon du couloir Scandinavie – Méditerranée, reliera dans les années 2020 l’Autriche et l’Italie en passant sous le col du Brenner, le plus fréquenté des points de passage Nord – Sud. Un point sur les travaux en cours, qui avancent à un bon rythme.
> 
> En raison de sa position au centre des Alpes et de son altitude de 1 371 m, la plus faible pour traverser cette chaîne de montagnes, le col du Brenner est depuis toujours le point de passage le plus important entre le Nord et le Sud de l’Europe pour les voyageurs et les marchandises. Actuellement, un ouvrage ferroviaire de base est en construction sous le Brenner qui reliera Fortezza, en Italie, et Innsbruck, en Autriche, et qui sera le plus long du monde.
> 
> La suite dans Rail Passion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Un train régional tracté par une locomotive E 464 sur la ligne historique (6 novembre 2010).


----------



## Gusiluz

*Freight in HST*

High speed trainset to be converted for freight. Railway Gazette.



> National freight operator Mercitalia has revealed plans to convert an ETR500 high speed trainset to carry freight. The Mercitalia Fast service would be aimed at the market for time-sensitive shipments, with customers expected to include couriers, logistics operators, manufacturers and distributors.
> 
> The ETR500 would be equipped for the rapid loading, transport and unloading of 700 x 800 x 1800 mm roll containers. The 12-car set would have a similar capacity to two Boeing 747 cargo aircraft, Mercitalia said, with CO2 emissions 80% lower than road transport.
> 
> The initial service from Caserta near Napoli to the Bologna Interporto terminal is expected to be launched in October, with an average speed of 180 km/h giving a journey time of 3 h 20 min. Expansion of the network to include Torino, Novara, Milano, Brescia, Verona, Padova, Roma and Bari would follow.


The ETR 500 (2000/05) are doing Frecciarossa services although they are being replaced in the main corridors by the V300 Zefiro. They are formed by locomotives 404.600 for 300 km/h. It would seem more logical to do it with 404,500 (the first ones that had) that now make Frecciabianca to 200 although the locomotives are also for 300. 
The ETR 500 have 12 cars since 2011.

Let's see when there are photos.


----------



## Wilhem275

Wait, there's a bit of confusion.

E.404 500- and 600-series are pretty much the same thing. They can be fed with 3 kV DC and 25 kV AC and are fitted with ETCS, so they can access the HS network (max speed 300 km/h).











The oldest locos were the 100-series and cannot run on the HSL, since they were designed just for 3 kV DC (max speed 250 km/h).
Since all coaches of the ETR 500 trainsets are now in use with the HS machines, all the 100-series locos have now been converted to E.414.
They've been fitted with standardized couplings, so they can be connected with ordinary Z coaches (ETR 500 uses a different design), and were downgraded to 200 km/h since no ordinary coaches can run faster.
Those trainsets are now part of the Frecciabianca fleet.

Before conversion, as E.404.100:











After conversion, as E.414:











Therefore it is necessary to use 500-/600-series locos for this job, as it runs on the HS network


----------



## intersezioni

The new regional train of trenitalia.
350 trains of this model https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFdM-QutIwM
and 200 Alstom will be produced


----------



## brick84

*Acireale (CT), Sicily*















source: Ferrovie Siciliane


----------



## kokomo

^^ Amazing Etna in the back!



brick84 said:


> *Railway station of "Agrigento C.le", Sicily*
> 
> (taken by me the last week)


Gorgeous! I loved those long stairs! Pity the only time I was there it poured and poured and poured (I still managed to tour around the Valley of the Temples though)


----------



## RGR 523

Mercredi 23 mai.

Ligne de Chivasso à Aoste (Région du Piémont).



> *Un train percute un camion dans le nord de l'Italie, deux morts*
> 
> Deux personnes sont mortes et 18 autres blessées dans la collision mercredi en fin de soirée entre un train régional et un gros poids-lourd dans le nord de l'Italie, ont rapporté jeudi matin les services d'urgence.
> 
> Le poids-lourd, qui s'était engagé sur la voie, est resté bloqué à un passage à niveau, ce qui a provoqué la collision, entre les localités de Rodallo et de Caluso, dans le Piémont, a indiqué la compagnie nationale des chemins de fer italiens.
> 
> Les conducteurs du train, qui reliait Turin et Ivrée, et d'un véhicule accompagnant le poids lourds ont été tués dans la collision.
> 
> La suite dans Challenge de ce jour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deux personnes sont mortes et 18 autres blessées dans la collision mercredi en fin de soirée entre un train régional et un gros poids-lourd dans le nord de l'Italie, ont rapporté jeudi matin les services d'urgence. /Photo prise le 24 mai 2018/REUTERS/Massimo Pinca.


----------



## brick84

*Rome*

_"Tiburtina station" 
_





Dasf Sturm said:


> Di qualche giorno fa


----------



## Nexis

What services have been halted due to the bridge collapse?


----------



## Ugo Fantozzi

Nexis said:


> What services have been halted due to the bridge collapse?


Today There will be a meeting with Trenitalia for planned new additional service.
It is not excluded an upgrade of maritime transport:
https://www.amt.genova.it/amt/trasporto-multimodale/navebus/


----------



## Wilhem275

Nexis said:


> What services have been halted due to the bridge collapse?


Line Alessandria - Ovada - Genova is interrupted with no alternative routes for passenger services.
The freight branch to Genova Voltri is unaffected (passenger trains may be diverted and terminated there, if needed).


Lines from Turin and Milan were already under works until September, so they were rerouted from the "fast" line (right bank of the river) to the old line (left bank).

In any case, from both lines you can follow two routes to enter Genoa: via Sampierdarena station, now interrupted, or via the Granarolo tunnel, which points straight to Genova Piazza Principe station.

The latter is unaffected and will be used for virtually all trains from the north.


Usually all fast trains use the Granarolo tunnel and avoid Sampierdarena, so no big deal for them.
Sampierdarena was in fact served only by local services from the north, and these are now cut (probably rerouted through the tunnel too).

Also freight traffic to the port and to the western half of Liguria is interrupted.
The only possible ways, right now, are with a change of direction either in Piazza Principe station or Voltri station.


The coastal route is unaffected.


----------



## Coccodrillo

A scheme of the rail network around Genova (note that north is on the left):

http://www.ferrovie.it/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1694321#p1694313

orange = closed because of works until 3rd September
yellow = closed because of works for an unknown period
red = closed because of the collapsed bridge

One of the two parallel lines crossing the Appennini mountains is closed because of works, so passenger traffic to/from Milan/Turin has to use the single track line in light green (freight traffic uses the line to Ovada in dark green, which is mostly single track but where local passenger traffic has been suspendednto allow more freight trains).


----------



## Ugo Fantozzi

New Trains Genova Brignole - Genova Voltri:
Sundays








Monday-Saturday

















Source: Secolo XIX


----------



## Ugo Fantozzi

Nexis said:


> What services have been halted due to the bridge collapse?


Linea Genova – Acqui Terme

Dal 24 agosto il servizio si svolgerà così: in modalità ferroviaria da Acqui Terme a Campoligure; da Campoligure servizio sostitutivo su bus fino a Genova Pra’ via autostrada; da Genova Pra’ interscambio con servizio ferroviario urbano (frequenza 15 min) per raggiungere il centro genovese.

Il servizio sarà svolto in questa modalità fino alla riattivazione della linea ferroviaria interessata dal crollo.

Linea Arquata – Genova Brignole

Dal 27 agosto, terminate le lavorazioni di Rfi per il potenziamento infrastrutturale del Terzo Valico (lavori su bivio Fegino), il servizio ferroviario sarà riattivato totalmente (con percorso via galleria Granarolo), raggiungendo direttamente la stazione di Genova Principe, saltando le fermate di Genova Rivarolo e Genova Sampierdarena poiché quella parte di linea è interessata dal crollo;

Dal 3 settembre attivazione del servizio ferroviario Genova Rivarolo – Busalla (con cadenza oraria e secondo l’orario standard);

I servizi saranno svolti in questa modalità fino alla riattivazione della linea ferroviaria interessata dal crollo.

Linea Genova Voltri – Genova Nervi

Potenziamento del servizio di trasporto ferroviario in ambito metropolitano, già attivo dal 15 agosto scorso fino al 2 settembre; da 3 settembre tale servizio verrà esteso fino a Genova Nervi.

Linea Savona – Sestri Levante

Dal week end dell’8 settembre sarà attivato il servizio Savona – Sestri Levante come in settimana (1 treno ogni 30 minuti); con questa implementazione da Voltri a Nervi, nelle giornate pre-festive si avranno 3 treni all’ora, nelle giornate festive 2 treni all’ora (raddoppio dell’offerta anche nella tratta Voltri – Nervi con tutte le fermate);

Regione Liguria ha chiesto il potenziamento della capacità del servizio esistente, con l’aumento delle carrozze e quindi dei posti disponibili.

Nel corso dell’incontro,si è stabilito di puntare con forza sull’integrazione sia operativa sia tariffaria tra i vettori interessati al servizi pubblico. «Abbiamo intrapreso la strada che dovrà portare a un unico biglietto per viaggiare a bordo di Atp, Amt e Trenitalia, con riferimento all’area metropolitana genovese. Si tratta diun’accelerazione a quanto già si stava cercando di realizzare da tempo» spiega Enzo Sivori, presidente di Atp Esercizio.

Per quanto riguarda la logistica, la scelta di fondo per quel che concerne le linee delle vallate e del Ponente, è quella di utilizzare l’uscita autostradale di Genova Pra’ e di assestare il capolinea delle linee interessate su Voltri presso la piazza della Stazione Fs: «Da qui i nostri passeggeri troveranno un vero sistema di integrazione con Amt e con Trenitalia, grazie anche alla presenza di treni cadenzati con partenze ogni 15 minuti. A essere interessate sono le corse in arrivo da Valle Stura-Masone (sia quelle via autostrada sia quelle via viabilità ordinaria) e le corriere in arrivo da Arenzano e Cogoleto» aggiunge Roberto Rolandelli, direttore operativo di Atp Esercizio. Il consigliere delegato ai trasporti della Città Metropolitana Claudio Garbarino pone l’accento sull’utilizzo delle risorse arrivate dal Governo e dalla Regione: «È importante che anche Atp Esercizio possa contare su queste risorse, per poter rispondere così alle nuove esigenze dei cittadini. Rispetto all’integrazione tra i diversi vettori, noi da mesi portiamo avanti il discorso in tutte le sedi e in prospettiva l’integrazione dovrà essere estesa a tutte le nostre linee chegravitano sulla città di Genova; a Levante, a Ponente e per l’Entroterra».

Servizio su gomma

Viene implementato il servizio di collegamento tra le stazioni del ponente ligure con i centri urbani.

Servizio navebus

Dal 23 agosto è previsto l’aumento del 75% del servizio esistente tra Pegli e il Porto Antico, con l’inserimento di due coppie (andata e ritorno) di servizi in più passando da 4 a sette coppie giornaliere.
http://liguria.bizjournal.it/2018/08/ponte-morandi-viene-potenziato-trasporto-ferroviario/


----------



## Wilhem275

Coccodrillo said:


> A scheme of the rail network around Genova (note that north is on the left):
> 
> http://www.ferrovie.it/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1694321#p1694313
> 
> orange = closed because of works until 3rd September
> yellow = closed because of works for an unknown period
> red = closed because of the collapsed bridge
> 
> One of the two parallel lines crossing the Appennini mountains is closed because of works, so passenger traffic to/from Milan/Turin has to use the single track line in light green (freight traffic uses the line to Ovada in dark green, which is mostly single track but where local passenger traffic has been suspendednto allow more freight trains).


Due to the emergency situation, they sped up the works and the lines will reopen on the 27th

Trains from Turin and Milan will go back to the "fast" line (Succursale).


----------



## 1772

I hope this tragedy can be a wake-up call to the importance of improvement to Genua. 
This city has all the potential in the world but it's just been neglected for a long time. 
It's a beautiful city that could attract much more tourism than it does (a future Barcelona?) and it's location between western and central Europe with a port that could connect the mediterranian/world with the alpine region. 
I'd like HSR between France and the rest of Italy and beyond to central Europe and Lombardy/through the alps. 
Along with straightened motorways. 

All the potential is there. I hope the new government corrects the mistakes of old and make it happen.


----------



## JumpUp

Everywhere in Italy, there are still loco-hauled IC-trains.
Is there any strategy to replace those old trains with new material?

France / Germany are getting rid of their old loco-hauled IC-trains within the next 5-10 years - will Italy follow the same?
How old are the newest IC-coaches?


----------



## Ugo Fantozzi

JumpUp said:


> Everywhere in Italy, there are still loco-hauled IC-trains.
> Is there any strategy to replace those old trains with new material?
> 
> France / Germany are getting rid of their old loco-hauled IC-trains within the next 5-10 years - will Italy follow the same?
> How old are the newest IC-coaches?


Recently there was a renew of contract with Trenitalia who will provide new materials...


----------



## marzi01

Ic trainsets are to be partially replaced by former frecciabianca trainsets hauled by 2 e404 locomotives. the choaches, though, are identical to present refurbished ic coaches. As far as i know no conversion to emus/dmus is planned. The coaches offer ic standards with air conditioning, plugs and tables anyways.


----------



## M-NL

JumpUp said:


> Everywhere in Italy, there are still loco-hauled IC-trains.


What is wrong with that? A lot of long distance trains around the world are still loco hauled.


JumpUp said:


> France / Germany are getting rid of their old loco-hauled IC-trains within the next 5-10 years - will Italy follow the same?


France maybe, but Germany is not: They have started using the IC2 (class 146/147 loco + DOSTO coaches) in late 2016 and issued a tender for new IC locos and coaches just last year.


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## JumpUp

_class 146/147 loco + DOSTO coaches_

They are not used as individual DOSTO coaches - every train is a fixed unit, always with 5 coaches, it has a loco - yes, but the concept is more similar to the railjet than to "classic" loco + coaches train.


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## Wilhem275

JumpUp said:


> more similar to the railjet than to "classic" loco + coaches train.


Do you realize they're exactly the same thing, right?


Also, no customer gives a royal fvck about this difference.


----------



## Attus

JumpUp said:


> ut the concept is more similar to the railjet than to "classic" loco + coaches train.


A railjet _is_ a classic loco + coaches push-pull train, nothing more.


----------



## da_scotty

In a fixed formation. However there are nearly no services with seperate/single coaches, nearly all operators use fixed formations for coaches. It's way easier to plan/operate that way, as decoupling/coupling single coaches takes a long time.


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## marzi01

Trenitalia doesn't couple/uncouple anything besides some loco switches which will anyways be abandoned soon by putting in service all e401 locos +pilot coaches. 
Trenitalia's intercitys are therefore exactly like railjets, i really don't see your point.


----------



## da_scotty

marzi01 said:


> Trenitalia doesn't couple/uncouple anything besides some loco switches which will anyways be abandoned soon by putting in service all e401 locos +pilot coaches.
> Trenitalia's intercitys are therefore exactly like railjets, i really don't see your point.


I secondded your point, I didn't disagree .


----------



## MarcVD

marzi01 said:


> Trenitalia doesn't couple/uncouple anything besides some loco switches which will anyways be abandoned soon by putting in service all e401 locos +pilot coaches.
> Trenitalia's intercitys are therefore exactly like railjets, i really don't see your point.


There are still trains that split en route like the trains from Naples to Sicily, where one train part goes to Palermo and the other one to Syracusa. But they would have to split to enter the ferry anyway.


----------



## IThomas

*Matera Central Station*
Matera, Basilicata
design -- Stefano Boeri Architects (same designer of Milan's Bosco Verticale)


















​
The project consists of the structural renovation of the actual Matera Central FAL railway station, (one of the three FAL Bari – Matera stations serving the city) through an aesthetic and functional redevelopment together with technological upgrading of the railway itself.

The project is intended to give greater visibility to the Matera Central FAL Railway Station which is no longer to be considered simply as a necessary service structure sufficient for the railway connection, but a genuine and significant urban landmark, adapted to the primary urban and territorial function.

The New Station is designed to become a recognizable public space, an integral part of the pedestrian square that is reconfigured and redeveloped and directly connected to the main access routes to the historic city centre located a short distance away.


























​
A large rectangular opening in the roof of the underground gallery roof, covering about 440 square metres, directly connects the two above and below ground parts of the station bringing natural light and air to the completely redeveloped underground tunnel.

This important first step in the renovation process is linked to a new building that performs all the reception functions, ticketing, connections and services offered by the station as well as the main visible element, a large new roof of 44 mts by 33 mts and about 12 mts in height. This shelter transforms the external space into a covered square usable by travellers, residents and tourists who can enjoy a new public space for meeting, waiting, passing through or just walking and which finally breathes new life into an important section of the city that has historically been devoid of its own identity and urban value.




















271279219​


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## Shenkey

I wish we had any sanity like Italy on out Slovenian railways.


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## GENIUS LOCI

IThomas said:


> *Matera Central Station*
> Matera, Basilicata
> design -- Stefano Boeri Architects (same designer of Milan's Bosco Verticale)


Uh

I didn't know this project

Anyway I think Boeri is well aware of this other one designed by Gino Valle in the very same city where Boeri lives










https://goo.gl/maps/1PytuCk7BJE2


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## intersezioni

The new regional trains , inside and outside from innotrans 2018
From May 2019 until 2023 a maximum of 13 new trains per month will be issued by Hitachi Italy and Alstom Italy, 4/5 of the regional train fleet will be 100% new
(600 new trains + an option to add new purchases)


----------



## JumpUp

When the ex-FYRA trains will step into service on the Torino - Milano - Venezia railway - what's the plan for the older ETR 500 that run those hourly service today?

Where will the ETR 500 be used from then?


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## brick84

*in province of Palermo, Sicily*

















by Enrico Bavestrello, su Flickr


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## brick84

New ETR 500 M 01 Mercitalia Fast


----------



## hkskyline

Nov 11, 2018
*Thousands rally in Turin in favor of Italy-France rail link*
_Excerpt_

ROME (Reuters) - Tens of thousands of people rallied in northern Italy on Saturday in support of an ambitious Franco-Italian rail link, known as TAV, and against the decision of the ruling anti-establishment 5-Star Movement to reconsider the project.

The 270-km (167-mile) high-speed line is due to link the French city of Lyon with Turin in northern Italy at an estimated cost of 26 billion euros ($30.2 billion).

The plan has been beset by disapproval and protests, both regional and national, and in July Deputy Prime Minister Luigi Di Maio, leader of the 5-Star and industry minister, called for a review, putting his group at odds with coalition partner the League.

Around 30,000 people gathered in one of Turin’s main squares for what was the biggest pro-TAV demonstration so far, signaling the plan’s economic importance in one of Italy’s most industrialized regions.

“It’s yes, to economic development, to jobs, tourism and culture and all that is important to the city,” said Adele Olivero, one of the organizers of the rally, which gathered citizens, labor unions, parties as well as TAV workers.

Regional Governor Sergio Chiamparino called for a quick response from the government: “Turin and (the region) of Piedmont want the TAV, and they want a link with Europe, without barriers,” he said.

Chiara Appendino, 5-Star mayor of the city, said she accepted the arguments put forward by the protestors and that she was ready to “open a constructive dialogue.”

Work has already started on the project but Italy’s Infrastructure Minister said he wanted to re-negotiate the terms with France.


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## brick84

The following timelapse shows the connections and boarding of trains performed from "Messina Centrale" to ferries in "Messina Marittima":








(December 2018)


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## brick84

*Taormina, Sicily*

















by Lele H, su Flickr


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## brick84

*"Transiberiana d'Italia"*

touristic line among Abruzzo and Molise region.
One of highest railway line in Italy

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrovia_Sulmona-Isernia (italian)


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## davide84

Same line, historical train: http://www.ferrovie.it/portale/articoli/8237


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## Suburbanist

There used to be a quite pretty railway between Sulmona and Isernia, but the line was closed to all traffic by Abruzzo authorities in 2012.


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## Verso

I don't see much use of that video, not to mention it shows Switzerland until you run it.


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## brick84

The beautiful Tiger FS E632.030 hauling the Carnival express Milano-Venezia entering *Venezia Santa Lucia Station*














by _Federico Santagati_


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## brick84

_Freight_
*Rail Cargo Group launches direct Duisburg – Venice service*
Mar 15, 2019
Written by
David Burroughs



RCG says the non-stop connection between the up Adriatic port of Venice, Italy, and the intermodal terminal in Duisburg, Germany, will operate three times a week.

“Venice is at the top of the Italian port rankings and is on a growth course,” RCG says. “The Veneto region thus plays a decisive role as a hub on the upper Italian Adriatic.”

RCG has been handling increasing volumes from the southern ports of Trieste (Italy), Koper (Slovenia), and Rijeka (Croatia), with 3365 trains serving Trieste Freeport in 2018.

RCG says the new service will provide a direct link between Venice and the trans-shipment hub in Duisburg, a gateway for transport to and from Scandinavia. The TransFER Duisburg – Venice service will also offer ferry connections to Brindisi (Italy), Patras (Greece) and Pendik (Turkey), extending the logistics offer to Greece and strengthening its position in Turkey.
https://www.railjournal.com/freight/rail-cargo-group-launches-direct-duisburg-venice-service/


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## brick84

*Sicily to see job creation with construction of Bicocca-Catenanuova railway section*



MILAN, March 25, 2019 – “Today we celebrate in Sicily not only the start of a strategic project but also a relaunch of Sicily itself which, with this new *section of the Palermo – Catania railway*, welcomes this opportunity to further the development of the island’s infrastructure and create jobs in a region that has seen high levels of unemployment and a loss of workers to other areas of the country. This project alone will provide work for a combined total of 1,000 people, helping relaunch employment in the region for 1,000 families, especially Sicilian ones,” said Pietro Salini, Chief Executive of Salini Impregilo, at a ceremony celebrating the start of the €186-million project to expand the 38-kilometre Bicocca and Catenanuova section of the railway line between Palermo and Catania. The project belongs to a European Union initiative to create the so-called TEN-T network to connect and improve the functioning of the continent.

“This is an important project for the people who will work on it as well as those who will eventually benefit from a faster connection between the two parts of the island. The effect that this project will have today and when it will be completed is proof of how much it is a priority for Italy to relaunch the entire infrastructure sector and create jobs. Our company has been present in Sicily for nearly 100 years but it has been away from it for 15 of them. That means that there have not been any opportunities to build important infrastructure systems for the development of the region in the last 15 years.”

Today the number of people working for companies in this sector under crisis in Italy is a combined total of 66,000. When taking into account their families, we are looking at more than 260,000 people in economic difficulty.

Between 2008 and 2017, Europe lost 3.4 million jobs in the construction sector. Of the total, 539,000 were lost in Italy. This haemorrhaging of jobs concerns southern Italy where 40% of these half million jobs were lost. Sicily was the region most severely hit, responsible for the loss of 50% of the total lost in southern Italy.

At the inaugural ceremony of the project in Catenanuova, those present included Italian Infrastructures and Transport Minister Danilo Toninelli, Rete Ferroviaria Italiana Chief Executive Maurizio Gentile, Marco Falcone, regional council member responsible for infrastructure and mobility, and Catenanuova Mayor Carmelo Giancarlo Scravaglieri.

Rete Ferroviaria Italiana commissioned the project to the Raggruppamento Temporaneo di Imprese (RTI) consortium, with Salini Impregilo as the leader and other members including Astaldi, SIFEL and CLF. The first results are expected to come in 2020 with the opening of a line that will allow trains to travel faster at speeds of up to 200 kilometres per hour. All of the work is scheduled to be completed by 2022. Once other projects are finished, it will be possible to travel between Catania and Palermo in less than two hours by 2025.

The work includes a new railway headquarters, the installation of signalling and communication systems, electrical substations to power the trains, the renovation of the Bicocca station and the construction of a new station at Motta Sant’Anastasia.

Salini Impregilo has a long expertise in railway infrastructure in Italy and elsewhere. It is also involved in complex systems of high-speed and high-capacity trains. It built the high-speed railway lines between Milan and Turin, and the one between Bologna and Florence. Between Genoa and Milan, it is building the Terzo Valico dei Giovi high-speed railway line. It is also working on the Brenner Base Tunnel between Italy and Austria that will be the longest railway tunnel in the world once completed. In Perth, Australia, it is working on a light rail line called the Forrestfield-Airport Link.
https://www.salini-impregilo.com/en...n-of-bicocca-catenanuova-railway-section.html


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## brick84

^^




brick84 said:


> dal profilo Facebook di Falcone:


----------



## brick84

*Sardinia
*
_ATR 365 Golfo Aranci - Olbia line_


----------



## intersezioni

a matter of days and hundreds of new regional trains will arrive in service from here to the next 4 years throughout Italy, and will be the most modern train fleet in the world (along with high-speed trains), all built in Italy


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## rheintram

"All built in Italy". I'm absolutely sure those tenders were all won 120 % fair and square...


----------



## marzi01

Well then keep your convictions for yourself. Pop trains are by Alstom (not an Italian manifacturer) and Rock trains - if I am not mistaken - have been chosen since no other company presented an offer.


----------



## intersezioni

the trains are built by Italian companies that have existed for 100 years on the Italian territory, which have always built trains since they were born both for Italy and abroad and have only changed master.
Pistoia, Savigliano, etc. are they not Italian?
What useless controversy full of resentment and nastiness towards Italy, guys give yourself a calm, this is the reality


----------



## marzi01

Well the companies are actually not Italians. Alstom is French and hitachi is Japanese. The plants which they use, though, are 100% Italian. And if in Europe there is someone which “pilots” tenders to make the national company win, that is surely not Italy. Maybe some of the neighbors


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## davide84

I tend to agree, however in my post above I was actually replying to the topic of Trenitalia tenders for regional trains - see post #858 and following.

I will edit and clarify that.


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## Wilhem275

I knew that


----------



## intersezioni

Pop new regional train


----------



## japanese001




----------



## K_

marzi01 said:


> What is not acceptable is that forumers, presumably from other Europeans countries, come to tell us how the tender was probably not clear, when if there is something that is clear is exactly that Italy is pretty much the only really competitive market, especially when compared to France (what are we talking about!) and Switzerland (or Stadlerland). That is the expression of a prejudice which can really be kept outside forums, just as persons who express the prejudice are welcome to go on holiday to France and leave us alone.



Switzerland isn't "Stadlerland", although we may wish we were, given the problems SBB has with its new Bombardier trains... 

Italy isn't the only one to open its market. Private operators are now operating in several countries. And the UK rolling stock market is very open.


----------



## K_

I have a question about the proposed second connection to Malpensa Airport. This connection would link T2 with the Simplon mainline, and would then become the main access to the airport.

- What is the current status?
- What are the chances of this actually being build? And if so when?

I think that one of the services that could be operated over this connection would be an IC from Geneva via Brig, and Malpensa to Lugano. If Trenitalia goes ahead with its plans to run more high speed services to Malpensa this could offer a whole slew of interesting possibilities...


----------



## Suburbanist

K_ said:


> I have a question about the proposed second connection to Malpensa Airport. This connection would link T2 with the Simplon mainline, and would then become the main access to the airport.
> 
> - What is the current status?
> - What are the chances of this actually being build? And if so when?
> 
> I think that one of the services that could be operated over this connection would be an IC from Geneva via Brig, and Malpensa to Lugano. If Trenitalia goes ahead with its plans to run more high speed services to Malpensa this could offer a whole slew of interesting possibilities...


You can find several technical documents about the project here from a municipality in 5he affected area http://www.comune.casoratesempione....1&idCat=16358&ID=16358&TipoElemento=categoria

The last update was a technical note on 29/1/2019 where they speculate a 2025 date for the works


----------



## kokomo

Hi!
If you buy a ticket at FCO airport for the FL1 line to Ostiense, can you use the Metro with the same ticket or do you have another one?


----------



## FortyTwo

kokomo said:


> Hi!
> If you buy a ticket at FCO airport for the FL1 line to Ostiense, can you use the Metro with the same ticket or do you have another one?


The €8 ticket you buy at the airport is only valid on the FL trains to Rome. You can change with another FL train when in Rome with that ticket, as long as you stay inside the city.
If you want to take a bus, tram or metro train once you get off the FL, you have to buy a different ticket for the Atac network (I don't remember if they're sold at the airport, but you can buy them anywhere in the city like at newsagents, metro stations...).
The standard ticket is €1.50.


----------



## narkelion

As Fortytwo said, no, you can't take any other PT service in Rome with that 8€ ticket that is not another train within the city boundaries. 

Once you're off at Tiburtina, you'll have selling machines in the metro station. Cash only (they give you change up to 6€ though).


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## kokomo

Grazie👍


----------



## intersezioni

new services and regional train

ALL togheter






New intercity Giorno


----------



## brick84

*Ragusa Ibla, Sicily*
















by _Nuccio Parasiliti_


----------



## da_scotty

^^
Stunning!


----------



## Suburbanist

The railway lines in the island have a lot of touristic potential, if only they were better managed.


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## brick84

*Railway line Messina-Catania-Siracusa (Sicily)*

Works for the new airport railway-station goes on.





Hecmar said:


> *RFI - Fermata "AEROPORTO FONTANAROSSA" - WIP al 22/06/2019 ore 13.00*


----------



## brick84

*Roma Termini
*
update works





Dasf Sturm said:


> Foto recenti, il rifacimento della galleria è di bassa qualità, ma almeno non così rumoroso come si pensava. Belli i nuovi varchi.


----------



## kokomo

I still remember not that long ago (4 years) when you could jump on the train until the very last minute so say farewell to someone and then step off!


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## marzi01

You can still do it. You just need a 1,50€ tram ticket.


----------



## kokomo

marzi01 said:


> You can still do it. You just need a 1,50€ tram ticket.


Oh... before it used to be free. There were no controls at the entrance to platforms except those to High Speed where you could just say "I want to say bye to uncle Beppo" and they would wave you through...


----------



## TER200

Oh, I didn't know Trenitalia installed the same type of pre-boarding ticket controls that SNCF.
Does it apply to all trains or only _Frecce _?
Is this installed in many stations ?


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## marzi01

gates have been installed by RFI (not Trenitalia) and apply to all trains of all operators in Milano C., Roma Termini and Firenze SMN. In other major stations, they still put up temporary barriers for national trains (frecce, Italo, intercity). It is very often still possible to get through if you are accompanying elderly people, kids or people with a lot of luggage and you ask please, that you want to help and say goodbye. They’re often nice and not too hard on selection. The whole idea is to limit access to the platforms to some ethnicities and/or individuals which are commonly known for having the nice habit of pickpocketing or taking possess of luggage left in the luggage spaces located close to the doors of departing trains.


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## Coccodrillo

The last time I was in Milano Centrale tickets were checked by railway staff, this is the first time I see turnstiles.


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## brick84

next to*Altavilla Milicia (PA)*, Sicily















by _Vito Senofonte Manno_


----------



## IThomas

New video - Company profile Ferrovie dello Stato







> Among the largest industrial companies in the country, with a long history, we aim to become the system company serving passengers and commuters on high-speed trains, based on sustainability and integrated mobility.


----------



## Suburbanist

Could they use the disused underground platforms at Milano Centrale to expand its capacity?


----------



## marzi01

What disused platform?


----------



## davide84

Short answer is: no way.

Milano Centrale has elevated tracks, equivalent to second floor of a building. There were other tracks below this level, mainly used for cargo in the early years, but the only way to access them via was by means of railway lifts located at the beginning of passenger platforms:

http://www.unferrovieremacchinista.it/images/ascensore.jpg

These lifts cound carry only one wagon at the time and it is my understanding that they have been out of service fo decades and maybe also dismantled.
You can "see" one of them almost at the centre of the screen, a few meters inside the covered area. It actually looks like a rectangular hole:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/C...df23efee88ae846f!8m2!3d45.4839709!4d9.2060969


----------



## Wilhem275

EDIT: beaten by 40 seconds 


There were some freight platforms under the station, more or less at road level, with wagons being lowered there by lifts.
They became historically recognized because they were also used to load trains bound to concentration camps.

Large spaces are available under there, the whole building was designed to be huge.
They cannot be used in modern service because there are main roads crossing under the approach to the station, so ramps can't be built to reach the lower platforms (which are nowhere near modern standards, a total rebuilding would be necessary).
At lower levels there are two lines of metro.

In general it wouldn't be a good idea to expand capacity by adding extra platforms there, the problem in Milan is not the station itself but its approaching lines.
A through solution is what is needed, as was done for suburban services.


In my view the best solution is to make Porta Garibaldi the new central station, building underground platforms there and a couple of tunnels to connect the main lines.
Which was Milan's layout before the 1930's, albeit overground. In those days they believed the future were dead end main stations, today they are just a hindrance.


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## Suburbanist

Porta Garibaldi already has underground platforms, right?

Italotreno tried to use it as its main station... Didn't work despite its good location (metro lines, close to business center, trams)


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## Coccodrillo

Note that Porta Garibaldi has 22 tracks:

1-12 dead end accessible from Turin and the Simplon (and from elewhere with a long detour)
13-20 throught tracks accessible from Turin, Simplon and the east and south of Milan thanks to an curved tunnel
two underground tracks for the S-Bahn tunnel (again numbered 1 and 2 I think, quite confusing)

Most trains arrive from the curved tunnel and ends in Porta Garibaldi, while few use the dead end tracks 1 to 12 (I doubt these tracks ever see more than one train each hour). Only Centrale-Garibaldi-Malpensa Airport and S11 trains pass throught the station without terminating in it (3 trains per hour and direction) (plus the trains using the S-Bahn tunnel, that should be around 8 to 10 per hour and direction).

The station: https://www.google.ch/maps/place/Po...de66129442b7d437!8m2!3d45.4807212!4d9.1875632

End of the curved tunnel: https://www.google.ch/maps/place/Po...de66129442b7d437!8m2!3d45.4807212!4d9.1875632

edit: Italo used platforms 13 to 20 also for terminating trains, because 1 to 12 are built "the wrong way"


----------



## Wilhem275

Suburbanist said:


> Porta Garibaldi already has underground platforms, right?
> 
> Italotreno tried to use it as its main station... Didn't work despite its good location (metro lines, close to business center, trams)


Trenitalia did the same, I don't know if they still do. It's a convenient way to avoid losing time in&out Centrale, but the short section leading to Garibaldi (from the north side) is badly congested; and rich of conflicts, but that's the general curse of Milan.

To the public Centrale is _the _station for all long distance services, almost all connecting regional and international services terminate there, so it's a problem to sell Garibaldi as a HS hub in current conditions.

One good thing is that Rogoredo is gaining recognition as a gateway to access southern and central Milan (MM3 and S lines), and even to the north side can be more convenient since MM3 is basically faster than staying on the HS train.
Rho Fiera is slowly following on the Turin HSL (MM1+S).
On the eastern line to Venice there's a plan to expand Segrate station into a main gateway (MM4+S), replacing the current regional hub oddly located in Pioltello.

Centrale is the problem here.


----------



## mad maker 30

dear every railway fans i just found a very interesting video from youtube (the video is made by japanese )
skip to 9:23 of the video and you will find out it
video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Je9T8lS4zY


----------



## Wilhem275

LOL, kind of very random


----------



## Suburbanist

Napoli Agrafola will have a similar network role as Milano Rogoredo IMO. But it needs subway expansion there.

Roma Tiburtina could be a much larger station if Roma ATAC local rail network were better and central stations were not closed due to lack of escalator maintenance.


----------



## brick84

*Railway Catania-Palermo, Sicily*


_Works for doubling stretch from Catania-Bicocca to Catenanuova (Enna)_

















































https://www.siciliainprogress.com/p...7St3Fn1WAUp5TE0sgt1jgtqDYGPZw0FMg0qywHdzlDiuI


----------



## IThomas

wrong thread


----------



## IThomas

Economic, social and environmental sustainability is one of the leading values of the FS 2019-2023 Industrial Plan, 
the cornerstone of all the activities carried out by FS Group's companies.


----------



## brick84

next to *Letojanni, Sicily*


















by Jan-Felix Tillmann, su Flickr


----------



## kokomo

*Railways in Puglia* (July 2019)


----------



## Verso

Didn't know there was a Gallipoli in Italy.


----------



## kokomo

Yeap... on the Ionian sea... Nice historical town and medieval castle

By the way, what I found out was that trains only were rolling actively in Puglia on the Bari-Lecce axis, the rest of the network (run by FSE, a subsidiary of FS it seems) is served mostly by buses.


----------



## marzi01

kokomo said:


> By the way, what I found out was that trains only were rolling actively in Puglia on the Bari-Lecce axis, the rest of the network (run by FSE, a subsidiary of FS it seems) is served mostly by buses.


Puglia has a much more complex service than this. The main lines (Adriatica line from Bologna to Lecce and Ionian line Bari - Taranto - Calabria) are served by Trenitalia for both long haul and local services. The Ionian line has a big offer deficit and the number of daily trains in each direction can basically be counted on fingertips. Besides Trenitalia, there are a number of other companies offering services on Ferrovie “concesse”, formerly privately owned. Among these is FSE (Ferrovie del sud-est, mentioned above in the quoted post) which provides service in the southern part from Bari and Lecce onwards in the Salento region. They recently became a subsidiary of the FS group in an effort to solve a dramatic financial and operational situation. Train traffic is currently suspended on some of their lines because of ongoing massive infrastructural updates. 
Other than FSE, a big role is taken by FERROTRANVIARIA, formerly FNB (Ferrovie del nord barese), sadly famous for the recent Andria accident. They provide copious and qualitatively great service on some metropolitan lines around Bari, including the connection to the airport. 
FNB, Trenitalia and FSE share the main station in Bari with yet another operator, FAL (Ferrovie appulo lucane). FAL links with its narrow gauge network Bari with Altamura, Matera and potenza, providing vital service to the interior. Their services are completed by (many) buses, which are actually faster than trains. Relevant upgrades are however coming here as well. 
Last, FdG (Ferrovie del Gargano) provide service around Foggia and in the Gargano area with a modern fleet made of Flirt trains. They moreover run local long distance buses all the way to Germany.


----------



## kokomo

Grazie mille!
Yes, while in Bari I took a look at FNB station, across the street, and I was aware that it provided services to the airport. 
I was in Matera too, not part of Puglia but Basilicata , and the station looked sad too. 
I was not aware of such modernization programs, I think they are surely needed because from what I've seen (especially in Gallipoli where I had more time to wander around) it looked very outdated.


----------



## IThomas

Verso said:


> Didn't know there was a Gallipoli in Italy.





kokomo said:


> Yeap... on the Ionian sea... Nice historical town and medieval castle


and one of the small gay destinations


----------



## eu01

marzi01 said:


> They recently became a subsidiary of the FS group in an effort to solve a dramatic financial and operational situation.


...and that's what FS is supposed to do, not to waste money by supporting bankrupt airlines.


----------



## backpackerstephen

Awesome photo! Makes me miss Italy


----------



## marzi01

eu01 said:


> ...and that's what FS is supposed to do, not to waste money by supporting bankrupt airlines.




We’ll see whether that happens or not. Anyways, it wouldn’t really by FSI’s decision.


----------



## kokomo

*Paestum *(July 2019)

It seems its currently under refurbishment, elevating platforms a bit higher than actual (any particular reason to that?) and station looked deserted. Not a single soul was seen.









ps: I found out that the locals pronounce it PAS-toon (i thought it was pa-ESS-toom)


----------



## Verso

Pæstvm? Is this a Latin-speaking town?


----------



## Clemente Delli Colli

It was, in its beginning, a Greek colony, then a Roman town. There is a big archeological area, with some magnificent and very famous temples.


----------



## marzi01

Platforms are being elevated to national standards for barrier free boarding


----------



## kokomo

Clemente Delli Colli said:


> It was, in its beginning, a Greek colony, then a Roman town. There is a big archeological area, with some magnificent and very famous temples.


Indeed 





marzi01 said:


> Platforms are being elevated to national standards for barrier free boarding


Thanks...


----------



## Suburbanist

Paestum station could easily be used as some sort of reception hub for tourists on day trips to the archaeological park, which is just some 300m away (entrance). 

It didn't even have functioning ticket machines a while ago


----------



## davide84

marzi01 said:


> Platforms are being elevated to *national standard*s for barrier free boarding


Not 100% sure about it, but the standard should be EU-wide (TSI interoperability norms) and all future trains should also be designed with that in mind.


----------



## Stuu

davide84 said:


> Not 100% sure about it, but the standard should be EU-wide (TSI interoperability norms) and all future trains should also be designed with that in mind.


There is more than one, so national would be correct in this instance. Italy has agreed to standardise on 550mm platforms, some other countries are different. The UK (obviously, we like being difficult) as well as the Netherlands and others are higher


----------



## marzi01

Germany higher as well


----------



## pccvspw999

Great Britain is a different problem: it has a complete different "loading gauge" as the continent. It's not only a problem with platforms.
On continent there a 4 height which may be possible:
35cm
55cm (UIC suggested European standard)
76cm (Germany p.e., not S-Bahn)
95cm (Germany S-Bahn)

Al measures with own tolerances. The problem is that higher the platform is, as farer it is from the rail. You can build it nearer, but the You have to exlude some sort of trains.
55cm is the highest wich will allow almost every vehicle passing by.


----------



## J L F

Hello.

A simple question: what does this symbol mean in the head of the train?


----------



## narkelion

It shows that the train has a "composizione bloccata", so basically acts like a DMU/EMU that can't be split.

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convoglio_bloccato


----------



## Gizmen

This sounds crazy! Really there is no need for temporary speed restriction with permanently locked switch like that was, in italian rules?! As I think train was given MA (mouvment authority) by ETCS for 300 km/h and sth like this on the path. It is ridiculous.


----------



## GENIUS LOCI

The problem is the switch was not locked at all, not in the right direction.
But they thought it was


----------



## Wilhem275

There is no need for any speed restriction, if the switch is properly locked. It will just act as a straight piece of rail.
That's not the point (pun intended...).

The need is for procedures which won't allow a not verified situation to be declared as clear and safe.
These have obviously failed in this case.


----------



## Gizmen

To be clear, we talking about sth like this

http://kolej.krb.com.pl/ie8/zal2.html

or about locking the point machine?
Next case is switch like this still controlled by interlocking (position of switch blades is known) or not?


----------



## Wilhem275

We still don't know if and how this point was blocked. Some types need an external device as seen in the link, others can be blocked using their own mechanics.

Position control is a different matter. Usually there still is a passive electrical position control, even if the machine is disabled. In some cases (for example when a replacement job has to be left incomplete) the electric controls have to be uncoupled too, and the wiring gets fixed with a temporary loop to simulate the correct feedback, so that the interlocking will work properly.

Of course, before providing a fake positive control, there must be absolute certainty that everything is in its right place.
Clearly there was a hole in these procedures.


----------



## pccvspw999

Two possibilities, IF the hypothesis will be confirmed:
“a hole in the procedures”, which I don’t imagine even possible, it would be foolish (ignoring too many lesson of the past);
“disregarding the procedures”, an act of criminal negligence, if true.

But maybe everything was done properly and verified, and than something different occurred afterwards.


----------



## davide84

Clearly it's not a hole in the procedures, not literally.
The workers have given written confirmation that the switch was locked in the proper position, therefore procedures already call for a check and written evidence.
Someone bears the responsibility for declaring something that was not true, and who knows why they did it. They even used the word "confirmed" in their written communication...


----------



## Wilhem275

I see no distinction here: to me, if a single worker's mistake is left free to generate some effects, it means the procedure is missing a layer of strong extra checks.

It's kind of self explanatory: if all this happened, it's demonstrated that an extra layer of check somewhere would have been necessary, and therefore is missing right now.

The point is not (only) to have workers putting more care in what they do, it's that the system must not need to rely on them doing it or not.


----------



## brick84

*Catania C.le, Sicily
*








































by _*Train Hunters*_


----------



## brick84

*Trains from drone along Sicily's east coast (province of Messina, Catania and Siracusa)*








by _Train Hunters_


----------



## brick84

*New railway station of MATERA-CENTRALE, Basilicata region*









































































































source: http://www.cobargroup.it/infrastrutture/ristrutturazione-stazione-centrale-matera/


----------



## brick84

Next to *Baragiano*, *Basilicata* region






Il caimano moribondo by Julian en voyage, su Flickr


----------



## brick84

*Milano C.le*





pinomaiuli said:


> che spettacolo!!!!
> 
> 
> View attachment 85206
> 
> 
> foto Michele Falzone


----------



## brick84

_Italo_ will connect *Turin and Reggio Calabria* from next 14 June.





*I treni Italo sbarcano in Calabria, nuova linea Torino-Reggio*

*Con 4 servizi al giorno partire dal 14 giugno garantirà fermate a Paola, Lamezia Terme Rosarno e Villa San Giovanni*

di Redazione

20 maggio 2020

















I treni Italo sbarcano in Calabria, nuova linea Torino-Reggio


Con 4 servizi al giorno partire dal 14 giugno garantirà fermate a Paola, Lamezia Terme Rosarno e Villa San Giovanni




www.lacnews24.it


----------



## davide84

I think it's probably the longest direct journey by train in Italy, in terms of kilometers...


----------



## kokomo

How long could that trip be? I assume that Italo has made a market research for such journey


----------



## davide84

Milano - Reggio Calabria should be something around 1300 km, another 120-130 km between Torino and Milano... above 1400 km!
I don't know who's going to run the entire trip, but for intermediate stretches not having a change in Rome could be interesting.

Right after Italo's announcement, Trenitalia made a press release about its similar service.


----------



## Suburbanist

These trains from Italy to R.C. are slow, though  due to an excessive number of stops:



Paolo1979 said:


> ^^
> Quasi.
> 
> 
> 
> 05:23
> 
> Porta Nuova16:30
> 
> Reggio Calabria11:07
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Italo
> 
> 8111Porta Susa - Rho Fiera - Centrale - Reggio Emilia - Bologna - Firenze S.M.N - Tiburtina - Termini - Nap. Centrale - Salerno - Agropoli - Vallo d. Lucania - Sapri - Paola - Lamezia Terme C - Rosarno - Villa S.Giovanni
> 
> 
> 13:19
> 
> Porta Nuova00:07
> 
> Reggio Calabria10:48
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Italo
> 
> 8143Porta Susa - Rho Fiera - Centrale - Reggio Emilia - Bologna - Firenze S.M.N - Tiburtina - Termini - Afragola - Salerno - Agropoli - Sapri - Paola - Lamezia Terme C - Rosarno - Villa S.Giovanni
> 
> 
> 
> 07:30
> 
> Reggio Calabria17:20
> Milano
> Centrale9:50
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Italo
> 
> 8136Villa S.Giovanni - Rosarno - Lamezia Terme C - Paola - Sapri - Vallo d. Lucania - Agropoli - Salerno - Nap. Centrale - Termini - Tiburtina - Firenze S.M.N - Bologna - Reggio Emilia
> 
> 
> 13:30
> 
> Reggio Calabria00:27
> 
> Porta Nuova10:57
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Italo
> 
> 8158Villa S.Giovanni - Rosarno - Lamezia Terme C - Paola - Sapri - Vallo d. Lucania - Agropoli - Salerno - Nap. Centrale - Termini - Tiburtina - Firenze S.M.N - Bologna - Reggio Emilia - Centrale - Porta Susa
> 
> Avrebbero potuto osare di più e provare a fare rete con coincidenze per tutte le destinazioni servite da Italo.


They could run a service in around 8h40 with a service on this pattern: Torino P.S. - Milano P. Garibaldi - Bologna C. - Firenze Campo di Marte - Roma Tiburtina - Napoli Afragola - Salerno (then all other stops until Reggio Calabria)


----------



## kokomo

11 hours is a loong trip... mamma mia...


----------



## brick84

After this two new services, 
Italy started again the debat about the Strait of Messina Bridge.


----------



## Coccodrillo

The new Florence HS station will make connections worse. It will actually be of no advantage for Milan-Rome trips (there are already a lot of no-stop trains on this route), quite indifferent for trips ending in Florence itself (it might be nearer to their destiantion for some people, farther for others), and will make trips longer for people going to other destinations in Tuscany (for example, Venice-Pisa or Milan-Arezzo) because they will have to take a tramway. The only people taking advantage of this new HS stations will be those from Verona/Venice (and beyond) to Rome (and beyond), because these relations today don't have faster trains skipping Florence entirely.

An acceptable solution would be to build new platforms for non-HS trains. The red platforms would serve cities west of Florence, while for cities east of it they could either built curved platforms in the green location, or straight platforms in the blue location. Another option would be to build new platforms north of this triangle, and make through trains avoiding Santa Maria Novella (for example, Pisa-Florence Belfiore-Arezzo instead of separate Pisa-Florence SMN and Florence SMN-Arezzo trains).


----------



## JoFMO

pccvspw999 said:


> Oh, please! Centrale “overcrowded”? By far not! With the right layout it can be almost doubled in capacity!
> Long journey? It takes 30 minutes (Rho to Rogoredo with stop in Centrale), it will be never less then 20 minutes, even with a tunnel).
> Money: the source has dried up! It lasts only to complete the network.
> Bologna/Firenze: easier to build, probably unnecessary (Firenze), and justified by far more through traffic.
> You may disagree, but it’s only because lack of knowledge. Sorry.


Having a different opinion does not translate into a lack of knowledge. Sorry my fellow.

A tunnel Rho - Rogeredo saves around 15 Minutes from Torino to Roma and frees space for additional terminating trains on the surface in Centrale.

Bringing down Torino - Roma close to 3:30 to 3:45 hours runtime with a stop at Centrale would make the route competitive with air travel and is therefore more then worthwhile.


----------



## pccvspw999

JoFMO said:


> Having a different opinion does not translate into a lack of knowledge. Sorry my fellow.


As opinions are founded on knowledge, when opinions do diverge it's mainly for lack of knowledge (at least the knowledge of all the knowledge of the counterpart). In other cases it's even worse...


> A tunnel Rho - Rogeredo saves around 15 Minutes from Torino to Roma and frees space for additional terminating trains on the surface in Centrale.


No way, it will take at least 20 minutes as through trains will need to stop 10 minutes to premit passengers to interchange with the main station due to longer walkways. An You will spend billions to achieve the same result that can be done with a fraction of that money? Firstly get the most of less, and only that after we can talk about the rest


> Bringing down Torino - Roma close to 3:30 to 3:45 hours runtime with a stop at Centrale would make the route competitive with air travel and is therefore more then worthwhile.


For how many passengers? How many flights are there from Turin to Rome/Venice nowadays that may be avoided?
The train is already competitive, and appreciable (>=10 min) time savings will affect only 5-10% of the passengers. Or even less, in my opinion.

Let's make Milano Centrale a modern station and upgrade the node without spending bilions for a useless tunnel and millions of passenges will profit of it.


----------



## JoFMO

pccvspw999 said:


> No way, it will take at least 20 minutes as through trains will need to stop 10 minutes to premit passengers to interchange with the main station due to longer walkways. An You will spend billions to achieve the same result that can be done with a fraction of that money? Firstly get the most of less, and only that after we can talk about the rest


If you really believe, that a train has to spend 10 Minutes in an underground station to allow people to change to overground platforms, you might be the one that lacks some knowledge....

A stop in Centrale underground doesn't need more that 5 Minutes. In Germany the ICE-Trains in Frankfurt stop for only 5 Minutes, a station where usually 80% of the 900 passengers on board an ICE-Train embark and disembark. And they change the direktion of the train. So a through running station in Milano would be perfectly fine with 4-5 minutes for a stopping train.


----------



## pccvspw999

I'm not quite sure that 80% exchange rate will occur "usually" (as I'm quite familiar with Frankfurt, I will be more confident with 50%), but those exchanges happen at the same level, even at the same platform. When You put the trains 30m below one another, things change significantly.
But as You say: "5 minutes of stop in Frankfurt", same must be achieved in Milan. And 5 minutes out of 30 are spared.
Another 3 minutes can be spared with faster approach to the platforms (60km/h routes).

But You still miss to answer the question: how many passegers do profit singificantly (>=10 min) from the tunnel? Any how many will have longer to go?


----------



## marzi01

I am joining the discussion at this point for two brief points.
First, it is completely absurd to theorize longer stops in underground stations to allow for “interchanges”. A great example is Bologna centrale. Most high speed trains stop underground, some stop overground, and yet the stop time is 3 minutes for all. 
Second, it is not only passengers from Turin or Brescia or Bologna who would benefit from a second “passante”, but mostly passengers to and from Milan itself, having access to an easier to reach, more practical station and - mostly - cutting travel time to and from milano centrale, avoiding the slow approach between lambrate and centrale. So the number of benefitted passengers is not a concern at all. 
The only concern is the cost.


----------



## davide84

I agree that Milano Centrale is highly inefficient and could and should be improved. My opinion is based on the comparison with the surface tracks of Zurich HB, which handle more departures between 7:00 and 8:00 than Milano Centrale with less tracks and without being classified as "overcrowded". And there were even more trains before the new underground line...
I understand you can't plainly copy solution A into problem B, but IMHO this is a very strong indicator that Centrale has some hidden capacity despite being a terminal station.


----------



## Coccodrillo

marzi01 said:


> avoiding the slow approach between lambrate and centrale


The problem here is not the lack of a tunnel (which would be a nice thing anyway, without considering the cost), but the extremely slow approach that Italian railway use. Basically from the beginning of Milano Centrale area to the buffer at the end of a track it's 1.5 km of 30 km/h running, and before that it is a not much faster travel, with no track switch faster than 60 km/h on the side track in the ara up to beyond city limits (that is, 10 km or so).

Beside that, Italian railways are still full of slow track switches, with most of those located in stations limited to 30 km/h on the side track and 60 km/h for switxhes located in junctions outside stations.

For instance, this junction south of Como forces nearly all passenger trains (except the very few skipping Como station) to slow down to 60 km/h, and that just because RFI didn't bother to put faster switches there (actually, for some years there was at least one 100 km/h switch, but it was placed just after a 60 km/h switch so all trains were limited to the slower speed).









Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.ch





Zürich HB and Frankfurt Hbf are both (mostly) dead end stations, too, but with faster approaches. The first thing Italians should do is make tracks inside stations and cities faster, and that's doable without building new alignments or tunnels, but just with new switches and procedures.


----------



## brick84

*Calabria*

_Palizzi Marina (RC) - Ionan railway line_

















by Jens Naber, su Flickr


----------



## K_

pccvspw999 said:


> Oh, please! Centrale “overcrowded”? By far not! With the right layout it can be almost doubled in capacity!


Indeed. A terminal station should be able to handle 4 trains per hour per track. The station has 24 tracks, so should be able to handle 96 trains per hour. It is not handeling anything near that.


----------



## brick84

*Catania, Sicily*

_new "Catania Aeroporto-Fontanarossa" station closed the airport





































_


----------



## brick84

*Abruzzo region*

_Avezzano-Roccasecca line_

Capistrello & Pescocanale





























source: Fondazione FS


----------



## legolego

legolego said:


> News update (un-official):
> 
> France: in a few weeks will be assigned conctracts related to the French stretch of the Tunnel; works will begin in the *end of 2021. *Work in progress at the french access portal side
> 
> Italy: have been finish the site activities near Maddalena work zone; has been started the assignment for the new highway junction, necessary to reach the work zone.
> On* half 2021 *will be assigned conctracts related to the Italian stretch of the Tunnel >>> On the *2022, *expected start of works for the Italian stretch of the Tunnel
> 
> Railway service start : *2030*
> 
> (Osservatorio TAV)


On March 2021 will restart work in the Italian stretch of the tunnel


----------



## brick84

*Abruzzo region*

near Cansano (AQ)


----------



## legolego

legolego said:


> New Rail Link *Turin  - Lyon [F] - *so called *"NLTL"*
> 
> _
> View attachment 758911
> _
> 
> Total Lenght: *270 km* (70% FRANCE ; 30% ITALY)
> 
> Railway Tenant : RFI - Italy | SNCF - France | TELT - Base Tunnel
> 
> *FOCUS on "Iternational Base Tunnel" *
> *
> View attachment 758937
> *
> 
> Lenght : *57,5 Km* (50% Italy - 50% France)
> Estimated costs: *8,6 € billion*
> Estimated finish date: *2029*
> Work in progress: *[ actually 19% ]*
> Vmax:* 220 km/h passengres - 120 km/h freight*
> 
> Some multimedia:
> *Chiomonte - Preparation works
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Base Tunnel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Another pair of video news about *NLTL Turin-Lyon* ongoing works


----------



## legolego

*BBT Brenner Base Tunnel Italy - Austria [A]

08.02.21*
*Isarco river underpass construction site: completed shift of the existing railway line*


----------



## brick84

closed to

*Railway station of "Taormina-Giardini Naxos" - Sicily*


----------



## legolego

*BBT Brenner Base Tunnel Italy* - *A**ustria [A]

04.03.21*

Webuild Group , awarded the tender for the realization of the Fortezza- Ponte Gardena stretch, related to the new Brenner railway base tunnel construction.

The contract is referred for the realization of a *new 22,5 km* long x4 railway line, with a Vmax 200-250 km/h.
The value of the tendr is *1,2 billion €*


----------



## intersezioni

treno sanitario.
The only health train in Europe, it can circulate throughout Europe, each carriage ( 8 carriage) has 7 intensive care resuscitation posts, each bed is centralized with a medical station that controls all parameters.
electric autonomy and oxygen


----------



## 437.001

Question.

Mount Etna is having yet another eruption these last weeks.
I've seen on the TV that some towns were covered in ash.
Has any railway line been affected by it?


----------



## davide84

The italian stretch between the tunnel and Turin will be upgraded with some km of totally new alignment, design is underway by the infrastructure owner directly.
No high speed, conventional line with freight vocation.

On the French side I am quite ignorant...


----------



## legolego

New High Capacity railway line *Milan-Genova* - so called *"Terzo Valico"* 

16 / 7 / 2021 update

*Webuild: new "Terzo Valico dei Giovi" breakthrough. Excavations over 68%*
Just a month after the first breakthrough, the Fegino construction site is the protagonist of a new breakthrough, between the Voltri interconnection tunnel (the so-called “odd-numbered” track) and a large structure in the Valico tunnel, which will be the longest in Italy, with 27 km already completed. The “even-numbered track” was completed in December 2020, and the new milestone almost completes the interconnection. The work’s overall excavations have now progressively reached 68% of the total.[...]







webuild







www.webuildgroup.com


----------



## brick84

*By train on the Messina ship*


_The ferrying of railway trains on the Strait of Messina is considered an extension of the railway infrastructure that connects Sicily to the continent. The transport of rolling stock on ships reaches up to the present day almost in the same way it was started in the distant 1899 with the first ferry boats of the Italian Society of Railways of Sicily. This video made in 2018 shows us the final stages of boarding the Messina ship of InterCity 724 Syracuse / Palermo-Rome. The ferry has a length of 147 meters and in its 4 tracks has a carrying capacity of 449 meters. To learn more about navigation, you can consult our second website www.navifs.it which, in addition to reporting the entire fleet, allows you to know in detail many aspects of this service._


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## kokomo

Crossed the strait back in 2017 on the night train, lovely experience


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## brick84

*Turin Porta Susa AV station*







Porta Susa train station @ Turin by Guilhem Vellut, su Flickr

Metro gate @ Porta Susa train station @ Turin by Guilhem Vellut, su Flickr

Porta Susa train station @ Turin by Guilhem Vellut, su Flickr

Porta Susa train station @ Turin by Guilhem Vellut, su Flickr

Porta Susa train station @ Turin by Guilhem Vellut, su Flickr

Porta Susa train station @ Turin by Guilhem Vellut, su Flickr

Porta Susa train station @ Turin by Guilhem Vellut, su Flickr


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## brick84

Railway station of *Agrigento C.le (Sicily)*























by _Patrick Bobst_


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## bruno amsterdamski

Two news :
1. Trenitalia is assessing the possibility of ordering a shorter variant of its Frecciarossa ETR1000 high speed train which could use the train ferries between the mainland and the island of Sicily. The trains would operate a combined Venezia/Milano – Roma – Palermo/Siracusa service, with the short sets joining and splitting en route.








Shorter high speed trains to fit Sicilian train ferries


ITALY: Trenitalia is assessing the possibility of ordering a shorter variant of its Frecciarossa ETR1000 high speed train which could use the train ferries between the mainland and the island of Sicily. The Ministry of Infrastructure & Transport envisages ordering a fleet of 12 four-car mini ...




www.railwaygazette.com





2. The replacement of diesel trains with hydrogen on a line in central Italy is being studied by AECOM. The first scheme covered by the proposals is the refurbishment of the 300 km Apennine line from Sansepolcro to Sulmona.
The companies will also carry out pre-feasibility studies for hydrogen operation on the long-proposed Two Seas Railway.
This would cross Italy from west to east, connecting Roma’s Fiumicino airport with San Benedetto del Tronto via Rieti, Amatrice and Ascoli Picen.








Hydrogen trains planned for Apennine route


ITALY: The replacement of diesel trains with hydrogen on a line in central Italy is being studied by AECOM, Spanish renewables group Iberdrola, green hydrogen firm Cinque International and sustainable development specialist Ancitel Energia & Ambiente.




www.railwaygazette.com





Does anybody know the details of the Venezia/Milano – Roma – Palermo/Siracusa service? Timetable, frequency etc. WIll be the train joined/split in Villa San Giovanni/Bologna?

And what is the name of "Two Seas Railway" project in Italian? Are there any materials about it availabe in internet? What is the current state of this project? Is this only idea or there are good chances for realization?


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## Stuu

bruno amsterdamski said:


> And what is the name of "Two Seas Railway" project in Italian? Are there any materials about it availabe in internet? What is the current state of this project? Is this only idea or there are good chances for realization?


I had never heard of this but there is a very detailed Italian wikipedia page about it. Basically it's been talked about for nearly as long as Italy has been a nation, but nothing has happened. It would be a big and expensive project for a pretty small market, so it doesn't seem an obvious priority


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## 33Hz

bruno amsterdamski said:


> Does anybody know the details of the Venezia/Milano – Roma – Palermo/Siracusa service? Timetable, frequency etc. WIll be the train joined/split in Villa San Giovanni/Bologna?


I suspect that the words "Trenitalia is assessing the possibility" means it is way too early to ask such questions.


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## K_

33Hz said:


> I suspect that the words "Trenitalia is assessing the possibility" means it is way too early to ask such questions.


I thought that the tracks on the ferries can accomodate about 4 cars. So they would need to devellop a 4 car ETR1000. Or an 8 car that can be split. 
But given te time the whole process takes, would just transferring passengers to a fast ferry not be quicker?


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## bruno amsterdamski

K_ said:


> I thought that the tracks on the ferries can accomodate about 4 cars. So they would need to devellop a 4 car ETR1000. Or an 8 car that can be split.


That's exactly what the article is about 


K_ said:


> But given te time the whole process takes, would just transferring passengers to a fast ferry not be quicker?


Interesting question. Does the boarding process really take so long? (in the article it is mentioned the trains should be able to board using batteries without help of diesel loco) BTW: After redirecting Hamburg-Kopenhagen traffic through island Fyn it is probably the last passenger railway ferry in Europe. (and yes, I'm aware of the seasonal train Stockholm-Berlin but it is a night train so somehow different  )


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## K_

bruno amsterdamski said:


> Interesting question. Does the boarding process really take so long? (in the article it is mentioned the trains should be able to board using batteries without help of diesel loco) BTW: After redirecting Hamburg-Kopenhagen traffic through island Fyn it is probably the last passenger railway ferry in Europe. (and yes, I'm aware of the seasonal train Stockholm-Berlin but it is a night train so somehow different  )


I have taken that train a few times. The whole process of getting us from Villa San Giovanni to Messina took about 2 hours. You can see that in the timetable btw. And we arrived in Siracusa with over 2 hours delay. I think that just having a frequent fast ferry across would be quicker and more reliable. People don't stay in the train while it is being ferried across anyway.


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## M-NL

K_ said:


> Or an 8 car that can be split.


That would make the most sense, since you would then only need a maneuvering control stand in the middle, instead of a full blown cab, which takes 1/3 of the cars length and takes away train capacity.


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## bruno amsterdamski

K_ said:


> People don't stay in the train while it is being ferried across anyway.


Interesting. So is the only reason to get the train over the strait that you do not need to carry your luggage?


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## bruno amsterdamski

M-NL said:


> That would make the most sense, since you would then only need a maneuvering control stand in the middle, instead of a full blown cab, which takes 1/3 of the cars length and takes away train capacity.


I do not understand. Could you elaborate on it?


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## kokomo

bruno amsterdamski said:


> Two news :
> 1. Trenitalia is assessing the possibility of ordering a shorter variant of its Frecciarossa ETR1000 high speed train which could use the train ferries between the mainland and the island of Sicily. The trains would operate a combined Venezia/Milano – Roma – Palermo/Siracusa service, with the short sets joining and splitting en route.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shorter high speed trains to fit Sicilian train ferries
> 
> 
> ITALY: Trenitalia is assessing the possibility of ordering a shorter variant of its Frecciarossa ETR1000 high speed train which could use the train ferries between the mainland and the island of Sicily. The Ministry of Infrastructure & Transport envisages ordering a fleet of 12 four-car mini ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.railwaygazette.com


So, this would mean to put in freeze the Messina bridge?


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## davide84

It is already in freeze for its own reasons...


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## TER200

M-NL said:


> That would make the most sense, since you would then only need a maneuvering control stand in the middle, instead of a full blown cab, which takes 1/3 of the cars length and takes away train capacity.


But they want to split the train to go to separate destinations in Sicily, so fully functional cabs will be needed at each end of the half-trains.


bruno amsterdamski said:


> I do not understand. Could you elaborate on it?


Having 4 cabs in a ~200m long train of two half-trains will significantly reduce its capacity. What M-NL means is that instead, they could put just a very small cab (without the long nose with shock absorbers) for shunting at one end of the half-trains, so an 8-car train will have only 2 real cabs and two mini ones, and lose less space.


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## M-NL

TER200 said:


> But they want to split the train to go to separate destinations in Sicily, so fully functional cabs will be needed at each end of the half-trains.


Then a small shunting control stand will not work. 
At what speeds does the train need to go on Sicily? If it doesn't need to go over 180 km/h, you could go for a central gangway design, with the DSB class MF/IC3 as the most extreme form, to keep the end sections as short as possible and the passenger space as big as possible. You would get trains with different ends, which is quite common in Japan.


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## brick84

*Sicily*

_Catania-Siracusa line_

bridge over "Simeto" river


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## 33Hz

K_ said:


> I thought that the tracks on the ferries can accomodate about 4 cars. So they would need to devellop a 4 car ETR1000.


That's exactly what the article says they are doing.



M-NL said:


> At what speeds does the train need to go on Sicily? If it doesn't need to go over 180 km/h,


The new Messina - Catania - Palermo route upgrades are being built for 200 km/h.


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## intersezioni

A great return


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## brick84

*Ragusa, Sicily*













Source


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## K_

There is a project to connect Malpensa T2 directly to the Simplon line just north of Galarate. This would make it possible to run trains from Switzerland to Malpensa. What is the current state of this project?


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## legolego

K_ said:


> There is a project to connect Malpensa T2 directly to the Simplon line just north of Galarate. This would make it possible to run trains from Switzerland to Malpensa. What is the current state of this project?












works should start in a few months. The assignment's procedure has been stopped early in the first half of 2021 due to some environmental appeals, now rejected.

Here you can find all the project's informations









Collegamento ferroviario MXP T2 - Linea RFI Sempione - COMUNE DI CASORATE SEMPIONE: comunicazione, informazione e servizi utili per i cittadini, le aziende e le istituzioni.


COMUNE DI CASORATE SEMPIONE: comunicazione, informazione e servizi utili per i cittadini, le aziende e le istituzioni.



www.comune.casoratesempione.va.it


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## bruno amsterdamski

^^ Will the trains to/from Switzerland go through the airport?


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## Coccodrillo

Not for the time being, I suppose.

Here is the missing section (from the Terminal 2 station to the Simplon railway): https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/45.6588/8.7549

A train going from the Simplon tunnel to Malpensa airport would end up there: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/45.61033/8.87373

However, here a chord linking Malpensa (west) to the line to Milano Centrale (south) is missing. Sure, technically you could reach Milano Centrale also using the line to the east, but this is not feasible in reality as it becomes quite busy from Saronno onwards.

An exceptions are the existing trains from Bellinzona (Switzerland, on the Gotthard line) to Malpensa via Varese-Gallarate. They are now using the single track chord from Busto Arsizio FS to Busto Arsizio Nord (visible in the second link). I have read that an idea is to make them change direction in Gallarate and access Malpensa fron the north rather than the south, but I don't know how much realistic it is. The distance compared to the current route would be shorter, but Italians are quite slow to reverse the direction of a train (usually no less than 15'), so it would likely be quicker to take the longer, but withour reversal, route.


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## bruno amsterdamski

^^ So what is the main goal to build this link? Which realtions will be handled there?


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## The Wild Boy

Hello. Is there a dedicated thread for the Brenner Base Tunnel in this forum? There is one but it's in Italian. I can't seem to find if there is a dedicated thread about this project in English language.


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## Sunfuns

The Wild Boy said:


> Hello. Is there a dedicated thread for the Brenner Base Tunnel in this forum? There is one but it's in Italian. I can't seem to find if there is a dedicated thread about this project in English language.


There is one dedicated to Austrian base tunnels including Brenner (in English).


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## Coccodrillo

This one: AUSTRIA | Base Tunnels Compilation



bruno amsterdamski said:


> ^^ So what is the main goal to build this link? Which realtions will be handled there?


I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if even the public entities supporting the project don't know it.

Without the chord near Busto Arsizio-Castellanza, EuroCity trains from Switzerland cannot use it (because they couldn't go on to Milan in a reasonable way). It might be used by S5 or RE trains coming from Milan and going to Malpensa Airport via Gallarate. Or by trains from Bellinzona reversing in Gallarate. Or they may just build that link and leave it unused (or under-utilized) until they build the southern chord near Busto Arsizio-Castellanza.

Technically they could divert existing Milano Centrale/Milano Cadorna-Milano Bovisa-Saronno-Castellanza-Malpensa trains from the existing route via Busto Arsizio Nord to a route via Busto Arsizio FS and Gallarate, but this would make little sense as this would mean moving trains from a quieter and shorter route to a busier and longer route, so it makes no sense. Anyway the chord necessary to dot hat already exists: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/45.61072/8.87532

I cannot think of many possible rational uses of the Malpensa T2-Simplon railway missing link, unless they also build the missing chord south of the airport. It is like having built the Zürich Airport link only with access from the north-eastern side: not totally useless, but not useful for most of traffic. They could extend the existing Milano Centrale/Milano Cadorna-Milano Bovisa-Saronno-Castellanza-Malpensa trains towards Sesto Calende-Stresa-Domodossola, but they would have to renounce to their existing "airport surcharge" in tickets, and also introduce second class on these trains (if they don't have it already). Such trains could be useful, but in addition to the existing ones on the Domodossola-Gallarate-Busto Arsizio FS-Milano route, not in their replacement (and I am still speaking of regional/regio-express services, not about EuroCity trains which really cannot go via Malpensa without the missing chord).

(Busto Arsizio Nord actually lies south of Busto Arsizio FS, because Nord refers to the name of the railway company, not to the location of this station: Ferrovie Nord Milano = North Milan's Railways)


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## legolego

The Wild Boy said:


> Hello. Is there a dedicated thread for the Brenner Base Tunnel in this forum? There is one but it's in Italian. I can't seem to find if there is a dedicated thread about this project in English language.


you can find informations here, because of it won't be an High Speed Railway:









ITALY | Railways


The new Florence HS station will make connections worse. It will actually be of no advantage for Milan-Rome trips (there are already a lot of no-stop trains on this route), quite indifferent for trips ending in Florence itself (it might be nearer to their destiantion for some people, farther for...




www.skyscrapercity.com


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## K_

Coccodrillo said:


> I cannot think of many possible rational uses of the Malpensa T2-Simplon railway missing link, unless they also build the missing chord south of the airport.


I think it might be useful to extend current SBB IR trains that end in Domodossola all the way to Malpensa.


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## Coccodrillo

There aren't that much, and they have an irregular timetable.

On that line, it would be nice to extend to Domodossola IR90 trains from Geneva, rather than the RE from the Lötschberg. That would be already difficult (IR90 should use double deck trains in the future, which have limitations south of Brig). Extending them to Malpensa would be even harder (smal loading gauge, different current, ...).

It would also be nice to have faster trains (RE, not the existing S50) from Ticino to Malpensa extended to Brig with this new line. Two birds with one stone: a connection from Valais-Bern to Malpensa, and a Ticino-Valais connection faster than the alternatives (Centovalli or MGB) and without ahving to change trains at leats twice. The only sad note is that SBB Flirts (includign TILO's) seats are less comfortable than a stone bench.

Malpensa Airport had less traffic than Zürich's one pre-covid, but it is still quite a big airport (24 compared to 32 MPax/year).


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## JumpUp

Hello,

several years ago, in 2015, it said that Fondazione FS Italiane stored one ETR 450, (train set ETR 450.03). Is there any news if that ETR 450 will run on Italian railways again? I don't find any information about it online. Thanks


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## Imons2020

Hi, sorry for the late answer and bad English! 
The ETR450 needs to complete the restoration. In the future it will be part of a new segment of the "FS Italiane Foundation" built on fast and luxury historic trains, with ETR 252 "Arlecchino" (restoration completed), ETR 302 "Settebello" (restoration started) and ETR 200 "Polifemo".
HERE some infos!


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## JumpUp

Imons2020 said:


> Hi, sorry for the late answer and bad English!
> The ETR450 needs to complete the restoration. In the future it will be part of a new segment of the "FS Italiane Foundation" built on fast and luxury historic trains, with ETR 252 "Arlecchino" (restoration completed), ETR 302 "Settebello" (restoration started) and ETR 200 "Polifemo".
> HERE some infos!


Thanks, so there WILL BE a future for ETR450? That is very positive!


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## brick84

*Railway station of ENNA, Sicily*


Some pics taken by me last week

























brick84 said:


> *Stazione di Enna*
> 
> Splendida stazione a mio modesto parere, peccato che nel giro di pochi anni verrà dismessa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2570610
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> View attachment 2570617
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> View attachment 2570621
> View attachment 2570623





brick84 said:


> Che dire... la stazione è davvero splendida.
> 
> Ho fotografato tra l'altro alcuni dettagli: soffitto, luci a LED, i bagni... Quest'ultimi sono tra i più puliti e ben tenuti che io abbia mai visto.
> 
> Da notare altresì la presenza della cappella e lo stato in cui è tenuta.
> 
> Un vero peccato sia sottoutilizzata a causa del servizio e della distanza con la città.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2570657
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> View attachment 2570693


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## kokomo

I always found peculiar, and curious, the rails painted white on the sides in Italy. I know it's supposed to prevent excesive expansion due to heat but my point is how do they paint them? Is there any special wagon or machinery to do so?


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## PippO.SkaiO

kokomo said:


> I always found peculiar, and curious, the rails painted white on the sides in Italy. I know it's supposed to prevent excesive expansion due to heat but my point is how do they paint them? Is there any special wagon or machinery to do so?


Standard maintenance vehicles with a tank of paint

Italian: Binari Bianchi
English (google): White rails (Google Translator)



> _The choice of painting the rails white is a measure taken to limit the thermal rise of the rails. In itself, the measure would be perplexing: with the same irradiation, the difference in temperature between a white painted rail and an unpainted one is in fact limited to an interval between 3 °C and 6 °C; but precisely this small difference, in certain critical situations typical of the summer season, becomes extremely significant on lines built with Continuous Welded Rail (CWR)._


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## Coccodrillo

JumpUp said:


> Thanks, so there WILL BE a future for ETR450? That is very positive!


Also the ETR 401 has been partially restored (only externally, and only two of the four coaches). The ETR 401 was the prototype of class ETR 450, and the only unit of the original class ETR 400.

The old numbering scheme called, for instance, "Class ETR 250" the trains ETR 251 to 254, while later FS changed the scheme so that Class ETR 450 was composed of ETR 450.001, 002, and so on. According to this logic, the ETR 401 is the first and only unit of Class ETR 400. The same class number has been recycled for the new Bombardier/Hitachi Zefiro, but it is not the first time Italy recycles class numbers: ATR 100 are both the Stadler GTW used on the Vinschgaubahn and quite unknown intercity DMUs built in 1935.









Vinschgaubahn – Wikipedia







de.wikipedia.org












Autotreno SAD ATR.100 - Wikipedia







it.wikipedia.org












Autotreno FS ATR.100 - Wikipedia







it.wikipedia.org


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## pccvspw999

Coccodrillo said:


> Also the ETR 401 has been partially restored (only externally, and only two of the four coaches). The ETR 401 was the prototype of class ETR 450, and the only unit of the original class ETR 400.
> 
> The old numbering scheme called, for instance, "Class ETR 250" the trains ETR 251 to 254, while later FS changed the scheme so that Class ETR 450 was composed of ETR 450.001, 002, and so on. According to this logic, the ETR 401 is the first and only unit of Class ETR 400. The same class number has been recycled for the new Bombardier/Hitachi Zefiro, but it is not the first time Italy recycles class numbers: ATR 100 are both the Stadler GTW used on the Vinschgaubahn and quite unknown intercity DMUs built in 1935.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vinschgaubahn – Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> de.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Autotreno SAD ATR.100 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Autotreno FS ATR.100 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it.wikipedia.org


In relation to ETR.401 there was a news end of december showing the other two coaches hauled to Bologna to be reconnected with the first two actually preseved in Cremona. It seems it will be restored completely, exteriorly and functionally.
Here the mentioned news


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## K_

...delete...


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## kokomo

kokomo said:


> I always found peculiar, and curious, the rails painted white on the sides in Italy. I know it's supposed to prevent excesive expansion due to heat but my point is how do they paint them? Is there any special wagon or machinery to do so?


I was checking that the Swiss, after one year test, found out inconclusive results regarding white paintaing the track🤷🏼‍♂️









I binari "sbiancati" non servono


Le FFS prendono atto che dipingere di bianco non offre vantaggi tangibili nella lotta contro la loro deformazione dovuta alle alte temperature




www.rsi.ch


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## brick84

San Leonardo river valley - Ragusa, Sicily












by Giorgio Di Stefano


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## brick84

*Upgrade of Bari Centrale*


----------



## kokomo

And what happened to the facade of the old building? Was it covered by mirrors??? I was there in 2019


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## pccvspw999

kokomo said:


> And what happened to the facade of the old building? Was it covered by mirrors??? I was there in 2019
> View attachment 2688755
> 
> View attachment 2688754
> 
> View attachment 2688753


No. It is a new entrance building on the other side of the railyard, a sort of "south side access".
The old building is still there as You saw it.


----------



## legolego

legolego said:


> New High Capacity railway line *Milan-Genova* - so called *"Terzo Valico"*
> 
> 16 / 7 / 2021 update
> 
> *Webuild: new "Terzo Valico dei Giovi" breakthrough. Excavations over 68%*
> Just a month after the first breakthrough, the Fegino construction site is the protagonist of a new breakthrough, between the Voltri interconnection tunnel (the so-called “odd-numbered” track) and a large structure in the Valico tunnel, which will be the longest in Italy, with 27 km already completed. The “even-numbered track” was completed in December 2020, and the new milestone almost completes the interconnection. The work’s overall excavations have now progressively reached 68% of the total.[...]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> webuild
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.webuildgroup.com


UPDATE JAN. 2022

*Avanzamento al 31/01/2022
Terzo Valico tunnelling : 67.717 ml of 88.245 >>> 76,7%.*






Commissario Terzo Valico | Accompagnare la realizzazione per garantire l’interesse pubblico







terzovalico.mit.gov.it


----------



## hkskyline

* Italy's State Railway May Have Been Target of Cyber Attack *
_Excerpt_
Mar 23, 2022

MILAN (Reuters) - Italian railway company Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane (FS) said on Wednesday it had temporarily halted some ticket sale services as it feared they had been targeted by a cyber attack.

"Since this morning, elements that could be linked to a cryptolocker infection have been detected on the computer network of Trenitalia and RFI," the company said in a statement. "The network is currently being checked." 

More : Italy's state railway may have been target of cyber attack


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## doc7austin

Italy's most famous train - The Intercity Notte ICN 1982 Siracusa - Milano via Messina (and the railway ferry) :







Enjoy!


----------



## Braillard

Coccodrillo said:


> This one: AUSTRIA | Base Tunnels Compilation
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if even the public entities supporting the project don't know it.
> 
> Without the chord near Busto Arsizio-Castellanza, EuroCity trains from Switzerland cannot use it (because they couldn't go on to Milan in a reasonable way). It might be used by S5 or RE trains coming from Milan and going to Malpensa Airport via Gallarate. Or by trains from Bellinzona reversing in Gallarate. Or they may just build that link and leave it unused (or under-utilized) until they build the southern chord near Busto Arsizio-Castellanza.
> 
> Technically they could divert existing Milano Centrale/Milano Cadorna-Milano Bovisa-Saronno-Castellanza-Malpensa trains from the existing route via Busto Arsizio Nord to a route via Busto Arsizio FS and Gallarate, but this would make little sense as this would mean moving trains from a quieter and shorter route to a busier and longer route, so it makes no sense. Anyway the chord necessary to dot hat already exists: OpenStreetMap
> 
> I cannot think of many possible rational uses of the Malpensa T2-Simplon railway missing link, unless they also build the missing chord south of the airport. It is like having built the Zürich Airport link only with access from the north-eastern side: not totally useless, but not useful for most of traffic. They could extend the existing Milano Centrale/Milano Cadorna-Milano Bovisa-Saronno-Castellanza-Malpensa trains towards Sesto Calende-Stresa-Domodossola, but they would have to renounce to their existing "airport surcharge" in tickets, and also introduce second class on these trains (if they don't have it already). Such trains could be useful, but in addition to the existing ones on the Domodossola-Gallarate-Busto Arsizio FS-Milano route, not in their replacement (and I am still speaking of regional/regio-express services, not about EuroCity trains which really cannot go via Malpensa without the missing chord).
> 
> (Busto Arsizio Nord actually lies south of Busto Arsizio FS, because Nord refers to the name of the railway company, not to the location of this station: Ferrovie Nord Milano = North Milan's Railways)


Thanks for the details
What is urgently needed is a quadrupling of the Domodossola - Milano railway !


----------



## brick84

*Sicily*

"Blues" trains were presented in Palermo few days ago. They will start service from late June:


----------



## doc7austin

Villa San Giovanni (Calabria) - Milano Centrale via Salerno, Roma Ostiense, Pisa, Ligurian Coastline and Genova in a Deluxe Sleeping Car:







Enjoy!


----------



## intersezioni

Trenitalia, medical train:


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## brick84

*Sicily*

works for upgrade of Agrigento-Porto Empedocle, stretch through the archeological ruins of "Valle dei Templi"









































source: _Fondazione FS Italiane_


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## brick84

*Sicily*

_Catania-Siracusa railway line_













by _Salvo Bottaro_ -Train Hunters


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## glksc

brick84 said:


> *Sicily*
> 
> works for upgrade of Agrigento-Porto Empedocle, stretch through the archeological ruins of "Valle dei Templi"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3170901
> 
> 
> View attachment 3170908
> 
> 
> View attachment 3170912
> 
> 
> View attachment 3170917
> 
> 
> source: _Fondazione FS Italiane_


They are destroying the beautiful landscape with those hideous wind turbines.


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## brick84

*Calabria*

Train "Italo" travelling among Pizzo and Vibo Valentia













by _Salvo Bottaro, Train Hunters_


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## intersezioni

In the spring of 2023 the Milan-Nice section with the TGV via Genoa and the western Ligurian Riviera should be activated

Race test November 2022


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## bruno amsterdamski

^^ Will it be a relation Milan-Nice or longer?


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## Richard_P

Recently new drivers video emerged this time from Ljubljana to Trieste Centrale, good quality worth to watch.






Complementary there is also alternative routing from Villa Opicina to Trieste Campo Marzio from special event train in 2004.


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## brick84

*Railway station of Caltanissetta C.le (Sicily)*

dectails of ceiling










































































by Angelo Cancelosi


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## brick84

*Acireale (CT), Sicily*
















by _Rossano Privitera_


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## brick84

*Sicily*

The new train "Blues" was presented in Palermo C.le today


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