# World SLUMscape



## London™ (Jan 12, 2003)

jimm said:


> This picture might be not so old. The car looks new.


That picture looks like it's about 10 to 15 years old - you can tell that by the clothing the woman wears. The URL says "2_87", so this could be from 1987.


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## London™ (Jan 12, 2003)

Desven said:


> Berlin-Marzhahn


Uh... commieblocks?


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## rayman (Jan 11, 2004)

GreyX said:


> rayman...this is a thread on slums. We all know how that part of Bangkok looks like, so post "newer" pictures of slums in Bangkok.


yeah and pls post slums of manila and jakarta, there are tons of them there


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## swivel (Feb 26, 2004)

Jai said:


> Small correction: that's not India, but a famous photograph of a train supposedly taken in Tongi, Bangladesh, after some sort of world Islamic conference.
> 
> At the very least, its not an Indian train, but Bangladeshi, as the model of the carraige and paint scheme belies


Sorry :? . Tell this _guy_

I can't read the text..it's in what LOOKS like German....Maybe Dutch as I'm told.???? But I can still see that he's claiming to be in Bombay... I have no clue ..you could be right...sounds right because thats a S-Ton of people..Maybe he's just using the pic for his page :dunno:

Just take a _look..Go to the link up top that says local trains, or just go to the bottom of the page_


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## Thunderflip (Jul 15, 2003)

rayman said:


> yeah and pls post slums of manila and jakarta, there are tons of them there


Slums is what this thread is all about,so post Bangkok slums.Skylines do not belong to this forum.


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## cicarra (May 29, 2004)

*More*

Calcutta:

































São Paulo:

















Nairobi:


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## Thunderflip (Jul 15, 2003)

Bangkok slums










































Jakarta slums
















































































Manila slums


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## rayman (Jan 11, 2004)

Thunderflip said:


> Slums is what this thread is all about,so post Bangkok slums.Skylines do not belong to this forum.


sorry,dont have any slum pics


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## Thunderflip (Jul 15, 2003)

rayman said:


> sorry,dont have any slum pics


the do not post at all.


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## rayman (Jan 11, 2004)

why dont you post some slums of berlin?? if you like slum that much, I was in berlin and many buildings in eastern side of Berlin look like crap, grey old building , looks like sarajevo or smt  pls show us those photos.


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## skyscrapercity (Aug 31, 2004)

*Seoul's LAST slum, moon village vanish*

The Moon Village, the last slum(Dal-dongne in Korean) in Seoul, evacuated.










If you don't believe me, click this site ( click English.)  

Seoul's LAST slum!


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## Thunderflip (Jul 15, 2003)

Here you go, these are the ghettos of the former East Berlin:

















































Sorry,this was all I could find.


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## rayman (Jan 11, 2004)

great that asian cities start to loose all slums, Bangkok is the next asian city to loose all slums, Only 4-5 years left, they build corncobs apartment for them instead, for cheap rental prices 

here is a pic of the corncob flats which will replace the slum


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2004)

In Brasil we still has many of this


















































































































skyscraper in Sao Paulo


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## Thunderflip (Jul 15, 2003)

I think the Philippine government plans to exterminate slums at least within the next 20 years maximum, Indonesia maybe longer.


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## skyscrapercity (Aug 31, 2004)

Slums(worn-out or rusty districts in a city) are everywhere in the world.
Even developed countries have those ones.
Just seriousness of difference between rich and poor countries 

So the more important thing is how to solve, improve and develope those kind of city problem
and better quality of life for its citizens.


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## skyscrapercity (Aug 31, 2004)

Anyway, this picture looks BEAUTIFUL!

beautiful slum from a distance?


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## London™ (Jan 12, 2003)

skyscrapercity said:


> The Moon Village, the last slum(Dal-dongne in Korean) in Seoul, evacuated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, there it is. To be exact, Daldongnes _were_ somewhere between a slum and a low-class neighbourhood. The last daldongne is now being evacuated and replaced with huge apartment complexes as skyscrapercity said. 

A "slum" is defined as "a heavily populated urban area characterized by substandard housing and squalor." But the problem with defining Daldongnes as "slums" is that they were one of the least densely populated area in Seoul, not to mention that Daldongnes' crime rate was even lower than that of Gangnam, one of Seoul's most prestigious addresses. Also from what I've seen, people were very friendly and those narrow streets were relatively clean. (Of course they were below average, but they were certainliy better than slums like Compton, CA.) Education level was higher than that of an average North American slum and I've never seen a kid who doesn't go to school.

But at the same time, Daldongnes did have some characteristics of slums. Houses there were below standard and most people didn't have full-time jobs or enough money for living. In fact, the majoriy of people depended on the welfare programmes and some had to go to local food banks every day.

So are they slums? I don't know. What I know is that they are not there anymore.


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## swivel (Feb 26, 2004)

rayman said:


> why dont you post some slums of berlin?? if you like slum that much, I was in berlin and many buildings in eastern side of Berlin look like crap, grey old building , looks like sarajevo or smt  pls show us those photos.


Dude I think you've just got some sort of complex about slums in Bangkok. Don't be quite so defensive...WTF is your deal? Don't post at all if you can't handle the fact that plight is alive and well in Bangkok

Great pics Thunderflip. They look fairly new. This would probably be my favorite.


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2004)

*Slums: every city's got 'em.*

This is my first post on this site (so give me the benefit of the doubt).

I found this thread intriguing. Every city has its version of a "slum;" some are just more photographed than others because they have a much greater impact on the people viewing them. For instance, the slum of my city can't even compare to the amazing pictures those of you posted.


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## ryanr (Sep 11, 2002)

Rayman...cool it man. Just because you are off the brig doesnt mean you cant be brigged again or even banned. Please dont cause trouble with other forumers. If you dont want Bangkok to be involved in this thread, dont make it involved. Stop trying to defend your city like that. Slums are a reality, just face it. Bangkok, like many other cities in Asia and other less developed countries DO HAVE SLUMS, even if its just a little or a lot. Just because this is the world forum and i dont mod it, that doesnt mean i cant do anything. Clean up your act, man.


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## RafflesCity (Sep 11, 2002)

Keep the insults out of this thread, especially those who know better.


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## LSyd (Aug 31, 2003)

*Slums USA southern style*

here's some pics of "slums" in the U.S. that aren't trailers. while not as bad as the third world, it's some of the forms of what passes as a "slum" here. (i've got some pics of a worse/more run down area, but they're on a hard drive i can't get to work right now; sorry, but here's what i've got

shot in Birmingham, Alabama:

here's some "shotgun houses;" named that because they're long and narrow. and cheaply built. usually found in poorer areas of the city, it's been compared to the rowhouses in the Northeast U.S. as far as cheap housing stock.





































a couple that have been rehabbed about two blocks from my apartment (they're the only ones in my neighborhood I've seen)










here's a picture of where a decent-looking neighborhood turns into an industrial neighborhood; most of the trash is from when a creek behind the trees overran. the creek's known for being polluted and smells bad, especially because it goes through the areas of town that still have heavier industry.










then in the U.S. you've got the popular "ghetto," or more appropriately, housing projects; the 3 shots below are in one that's about 4 blocks from my apartment, and surrounded by nice and/or gentrified neighborhoods. just about every city's got a similar area though:




























another one on the west side 










in areas of town that are "the ghetto," there's a good deal of burnt out buildings





































other slummy shots:










homeless "camp" near downtown










here's some "slum" shots from Atlanta; not being from there, i didn't find or photograph "the worst" areas (or so i was told.)














































Columbia, South Carolina




























seeing how much of the world lives in slums, in literal garbage, does make me grateful that i didn't/don't live there.

-


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2004)

Favela in Morumbi the richest area of Sao Paulo.



















Visiting the favela confirmed many of the idea that I have learned as well as enlightened me to many more things. I was shocked at the actual proximity of large corporations and buildings to the favela. I had read about Morumbi being an area of rich apartment houses, but I was really shocked to see the huge COMPAQ, CityBank and Nestle buildings looking right into the favela from across the river.

Another part that took me by surprise was many people illegally tapped into the electricity. (only 20% of the homes have it legally in Real Parque favela.) This seems pretty difficult and must take some sort of education or trial/error to figure out how to tap into an electrical wire.


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## ryanr (Sep 11, 2002)

^What a contrast!! Thats quite shocking. Just imagine that about 5 families can live in a space equivalent to one tennis court.


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## amras (Apr 18, 2004)

yes @GreyX, it's a harsh reality isn't it? that means that poverty is still a major problem in the world. but hopefully things would change for the better and we won't be seeing these pictures anymore, we won't be discussing this topic anymore, and we won't have to worry about rayman anymore... :bash:


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## rayman (Jan 11, 2004)

amras said:


> yes @GreyX, it's a harsh reality isn't it? that means that poverty is still a major problem in the world. but hopefully things would change for the better and we won't be seeing these pictures anymore, we won't be discussing this topic anymore, and we won't have to worry about rayman anymore... :bash:


or worry about you


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## huaiwei (Jan 30, 2003)

rayman said:


> or worry about you


 Is that supposed to be another show of defience?

Once a person is brigged, normally the next step is an outright ban. If a brig cannot teach a person how to conduct himself responsibly and with maturity in this forums, then he dosent deserve a place in here at all.


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2004)

I don't like fighting in forums, so I'll try not to step on toes--

I think Swivle was trying to agree with me that there really aren't places (that I have seen anyways) like what is depicted in the pictures on this forum existing in the US. There are areas of extreme poverty, however, they manifest themselves in different ways.

JuanPaulo, I have to disagree with your statement about "why show the world something negative." Ignoring a problem has NEVER made it go away. If slums/ghettos/etc are disappearing thats fine, but it wasn't because the world ignored them. So, if these things do NOT exist, then it is wrong to say that they do, but if they DO indeed still exist, its fine to point them out so that something can be done about it as opposed to sweeping it under the rug. 

And on a related note, just because a problem has been solved does not mean that it never happened or wasn't a problem to begin with. Why forget human history?


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2004)

I guess my last post was a little late. Oh well, it's still true.


Passadico--I think some of those places weren't slums. They just need to mow their lawns. :jk:


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## AcesHigh (Feb 20, 2003)

LSyd said:


> here's some pics of "slums" in the U.S. that aren't trailers. while not as bad as the third world, it's some of the forms of what passes as a "slum" here. (i've got some pics of a worse/more run down area, but they're on a hard drive i can't get to work right now; sorry, but here's what i've got
> 
> shot in Birmingham, Alabama:
> 
> ...



I think anytime that an american that lives in places like that complains about the living conditions and american economy and stuff like that, he should be slapped in the face and shown how he would live if he was born in a 3rd world country!!

all the houses you showed would be low-middle class in Brasil, not POOR. Those are pretty good living conditions. I mean... whats so bad about living in places like that? You have electricity. Running water. Sewage. Asphalt in front of your house. You even has your OWN terrain!! In real slums, people build their houses with any material they can find on garbages and elsewhere, and they build it on terrains that DONT belong to them.


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## clive330 (Nov 10, 2003)

many of the houses in slums in first world countries would actually be really nice if the people werent content to live in squallor. These are really cute and similar wooden houses are prized, really expensive and immaculate in Australia.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2004)

Slum dwellers in US have cars, they must be pretty rich(compared to 3rd world. And they don't really look like slums, only if they coulld tidy up the place a little , it would look good.


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## lumpia (Apr 10, 2004)

depends what the average standards are in the country.. for instance if the average house type in a certain country was similar to the shotgun houses in the US, then shotgun houses wouldnt look that bad,. but if the average was much richer than that, shotgun houses would qualify as slums.. depends where you are, and how you look at things.. 

in my opinion; no matter how nice the house may be form the outside; poverty can still loom over the house's inhabitants inside. i've seen some pretty nice looking houses that are without electricity, gas, adequate heat or infested with a wide multitude of pests. if you assess that the houses' inhabitants are unable to find work or may be unqualified to find work that makes ends meet, then that would sorta be the same as people living in a slum anyway.. in the Philippines, there are slum dwellers that have enough money to afford TV's and entertainment centes, having electric-lines runin into their houses/shacks (goodness knows where they get the money from, but some of them obviously can), so even when we talk of slums, there is no set regulations on the types of peopel who live in them, just as there are no regulations on types of peopel who dont live in them...

poverty=poverty; no stereotypes - no assumptions...


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## AcesHigh (Feb 20, 2003)

adequate heat??? So ALL houses in Brasil are slums. For some UNKNOWN reason, heating is something almost unknown in Brasil. Ah ok... its a tropical country. Right. The southern areas get snow sometimes. Europeans who come to southern Brasil consider it so cold. Basically because they ARE NOT USED TO COLD! What?? An european not used to cold? Yeah, thats right. Europeans only feel cold when they go outside. Inside, their houses are constant 25 degrees celcius!! In Brasil, houses are about the same temp as outside... kinda like... if its 8 degrees outside, inside the house it will be about 12 degrees! How nice uh? And I am talking about RICH houses whch CAN afford heating. But nobody uses them here. And you barely see any heating system for sale. You can only find eletrical heating systems using resistances methods, which of course consume an absurd amount of energy...


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## AcesHigh (Feb 20, 2003)




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## Bruno BHZ (Nov 15, 2002)

AcesHigh said:


> adequate heat??? So ALL houses in Brasil are slums. For some UNKNOWN reason, heating is something almost unknown in Brasil. Ah ok... its a tropical country. Right. The southern areas get snow sometimes. Europeans who come to southern Brasil consider it so cold. Basically because they ARE NOT USED TO COLD! What?? An european not used to cold? Yeah, thats right. Europeans only feel cold when they go outside. Inside, their houses are constant 25 degrees celcius!! In Brasil, houses are about the same temp as outside... kinda like... if its 8 degrees outside, inside the house it will be about 12 degrees! How nice uh? And I am talking about RICH houses whch CAN afford heating. But nobody uses them here. And you barely see any heating system for sale. You can only find eletrical heating systems using resistances methods, which of course consume an absurd amount of energy...


That´s true. You reminded me when a Dutch friend of my sister visited Belo Horizonte, during May. The temperature was extremely nice for her, during the day, specially for a "supposed" fall, around 20ºC, a bit more around mid-day, a bit less during the afternoon and morning. But during the night, the temperature fall to 12ºC. I wouldn´t say that inside our apartment it was the same temperature, because we closed all the windows, and even our bodies heat the air a bit. But it was around 14º, 15ºC. She said she never felt so cold during the night as here in Brazil, she never had to sleep with so much clothes on, and stay with so much clothes inside a closed place. She got a flu while here... It sounds so ironic...


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## swivel (Feb 26, 2004)

AcesHigh said:


> I think anytime that an american that lives in places like that complains about the living conditions and american economy and stuff like that, he should be slapped in the face and shown how he would live if he was born in a 3rd world country!!



C'mon now...no need for slapin'
In LSyd's defense, he never complained or said anything of this nature...go take a look for yourself. Better yet I'll bring it to you: "while not as bad as the third world, it's some of the forms of what passes as a "slum" here".

He's dead right ...thats what would be considered slumish here if we even used the term anymore. Maybe higher end, but slumish none the less. 

This may be the only thing he's been exposed to. This is what he wanted to share, so he did..Some of the images he posted would be considered " slummy " according to most in america....which brings me here....

These last few posts are an absolute perfect example of what I was trying to explain earlier....Read carefully..

I've tried to explain through out this entire thread that we do not know slums such as rios or anywhere for that matter....But some of you we're hell bent on proving slums are alive and well in the US...So fine ...we post what we would CONSIDER slums.. And what happens ..people start slapin' . 

And Indian, Where we're you earlier when I needed your post! This is what I'm talking about

"Slum dwellers in US have cars, they must be pretty rich(compared to 3rd world. And they don't really look like slums, only if they coulld tidy up the place a little , it would look good. 

I tried explaining this much earlier in the thread...we settled on posting what we CONSIDER U.S. slums. In my opinion ( as I've recently learned ) American Samoa is really the only true existing slum in america..the rest of our poor, unfortunate areas are considered just that...just poor hoods ..not slums...And rightfully so ...take indians post for ex.


And last but not least...



AcesHigh said:


> all the houses you showed would be low-middle class in Brasil, not POOR. Those are pretty good living conditions. I mean... whats so bad about living in places like that? You have electricity. Running water. Sewage. Asphalt in front of your house. You even has your OWN terrain!! In real slums, people build their houses with any material they can find on garbages and elsewhere, and they build it on terrains that DONT belong to them


We know that, Just go read the rest of the thread. I think you'll see that people are fully aware of this and in complete and total agreement

"all the houses you showed would be low-middle class in Brasil, not POOR."

Well, we're not in Brasil are we...and he never claimed them to be in worse shape...actually he did the exact opposite ...so why bash the guy for doing exactly as he was suppose to?

This thread was back on an even keel with a good vibe .
Then people forget that there are 6 other pages of text they need to read before they post.


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## JuanPaulo (Feb 26, 2004)

Swivle said:


> This thread was back on an even keel with a good vibe .
> Then people forget that there are 6 other pages of text they need to read before they post.


Exactly!


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## FM 2258 (Jan 24, 2004)

I honestly think slums bring character to a city. They're a fact of life and all we can do is do our best to clean them up. Slums are pretty fascinating to me. I would like to know and have the experience of living in one but I wouldn't want to have to live in one for a long time. .


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## Suncity (Jun 9, 2004)

Triumph Speed3 said:


> The largest slum in the world: Dharavi(Mumbai).


WOW! That's a lot of EMPHASIS!!! 

NGOs generally claim it to be the largest in Asia.

BTW did you visit Dharavi in your seven month or other hellish trips in India?
I remember reading your Indian experiences where you saw dead bodies in Paharganj and people in Kolkata brushing their teeth with dirty water, the hot and horrible weather, banana lassis leading to upset belly, foreigners suffering from malaria, the worst airports and the worst road! It was interesting to read about the "real" India from your many posts.

For more about Dharavi (Yes, Indians also post about slums in India and not just "glittering" buildings).

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=122088


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## szehoong (Sep 11, 2002)

baqthier said:


> Producer of Entrapment, Sean Connery wasn't happy that Kuala Lumpur has no slums. So he decided do a "facelift" by superimposing KL some nasty stuffs that looked bad, though not as demented as him.
> 
> Entrapment scene! OMG! Canal Tour in KL?!
> 
> ...



yea.....a lot of people whom haven't been to KL think that is real!  


To increase the exotic fair of the movie, instead of staying at the various hotels in KL which are very cheap, they decided to stay in some run-down shophouse (and they just had to access it from a 'dirty' backlane as if shophouses do not have shop-front access). 

The funny thing is that they could afford to stay in London (and even stayed at an expensive hotel there) while in KL they had to live in some run-down place. Oh......and they had the money to rent a Mercedes limo to the new year's party! :lol:

It is funny to Malaysians cos most of the stuffs in the movie is just too fake (unlike of how these Hollywood studios portray American cities)


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## Triumph Speed3 (Aug 11, 2004)

Suncity said:


> WOW THOSE ARE BOLD LETTERS WITH A LOT OF EMPHASIS!!!
> 
> NGOs generally claim it to be the largest in Asia.
> 
> ...



Yes, it is me!  
Been to India twice(well, actually 3 times if you include a short trip)
i hope you don't think I hate India. I am an outdoor sports/ adrenaline junkie and that region of Asia(Nepal, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh) is a paradise for me, so full of adventures. 




Suncity said:


> Aren't you the one who saw dead bodies in Paharganj and people in Kolkata brushing their teeth with sewer water, the hot and horrible weather, banana lassis leading to upset belly, foreigners suffering from malaria, the worst airports and the worst road!



Did I say something wrong? Did I lie?
Have you been to India?

Yes, I saw dead bodies in Paraganj and other places in India, I saw people taking sh*t and piss on the street everywhere in India, the summer in Delhi is hellish, almost everyone gets sick from food in India, India is the least hygienic nation I have been to( I have been to over 30 countries so far), one of the worst airports in the world(not the worst, my 2nd pick), the worst road(Grand Trunk Road) etc. 
Do you want me to go on?
Are you saying what I said is wrong?
All I know is that all those nice photos you guys post here are not REAL India. Why can't you guys accept Indian as what it really is and pretend to be something else?


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## Imperfect Ending (Apr 7, 2003)

szehoong said:


> yea.....a lot of people whom haven't been to KL think that is real!
> 
> 
> To increase the exotic fair of the movie, instead of staying at the various hotels in KL which are very cheap, they decided to stay in some run-down shophouse (and they just had to access it from a 'dirty' backlane as if shophouses do not have shop-front access).
> ...


same goes for Bangkok..


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## Cauo (Oct 29, 2003)

*@poksa*



Poska said:


> There are big drug dealers there. U can enter in the hood but i don't think u'll get out with all ur money or all ur clothes if u don't come to buy weed. Especially if u're a tourist...


 ooh , that sounds scary , is that a project were lives the "social waste" of paris , (sorry for this extreme word i dont mean it so .... 

what people life there , are there arabic or black people life , and can the police dont spot this crime there ... and are the drug dealers inhabitans of "pablo picasso "


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## Suncity (Jun 9, 2004)

Triumph Speed3 said:


> Did I say something wrong? Did I lie?


It's your personal experience.



Triumph Speed3 said:


> Have you been to India?


Hmm...Good Question.



Triumph Speed3 said:


> Yes, I saw dead bodies in Paraganj and other places in India, I saw people taking sh*t and piss on the street everywhere in India, the summer in Delhi is hellish, almost everyone gets sick from food in India, India is the least hygienic nation I have been to( I have been to over 30 countries so far), one of the worst airports in the world(not the worst, my 2nd pick), the worst road(Grand Trunk Road) etc.


So you are the world veteran and India expert. I have visited many cities in the world and India too. I have seen places worse than Kolkata. But I never believe in passing judgements like the "WORST IN THE WORLD". "DIRTIEST IN THE WORLD" etc... 



Triumph Speed3 said:


> Do you want me to go on? Are you saying what I said is wrong?


This is a free forum. It's your wish whether you want to go on *trashing India *  as you have already done in many threads. 

Though I do find your experiences a bit one sided.



Triumph Speed3 said:


> All I know is that all those nice photos you guys post here are not REAL India. Why can't you guys accept Indian as what it really is and pretend to be something else?


This is the moot point that *I object to*. (I don't really care much about your personal experience) 

You have said this before too. 

Who says that we don't accept India the way it is? We accept India the way it is but we also want it to improve and become a better nation. Go to the India section / Asia section and see the postings and discussions before you jump to conclusions. It's not just a "rosy" picture of India there. People are seriously discussing the problems and issues related to urban India. 

BTW it also needs to be pointed out that this forum is basically about skylines, skyscrapers, buildings and urban development activities. So I don't see why people should not be posting pictures of such developments in India in this forum. *Just because India has slums doesn't mean India cannot have building projects/development activities as well.* Posting pictures of such projects in no way means that they present an "unreal" (or "real") picture of India! 

I find it a bit too convenient to dismiss it off as "pretending to be something else"??? WOW! 

*The "nice" photos are also part of India just as the slums of Dharavi are. There is no "pretension" to it.* . Check out the thread on fishing village and other discussions about slums in India. They have been started and discussed by Indians. And they will continue to be discussed in the hundreds of Indian forums because it's something we have to deal with and improve.

India is a mix of many levels of living. There's super poor and super rich. There's a big middle class too from lower middle class to upper middle class. *No one can just pick and choose any particlular section and say that this is the "REAL" India. Even India veterans will never make that mistake. *  

Having lived in India for over two decades (and a portion of it in some of the worst slums), I think I know more about "REAL" India than many others. But even I won't dare to claim I know all of "REAL" India.


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## Poska (Sep 12, 2004)

Cauo said:


> ooh , that sounds scary , is that a project were lives the "social waste" of paris , (sorry for this extreme word i dont mean it so ....
> 
> what people life there , are there arabic or black people life , and can the police dont spot this crime there ... and are the drug dealers inhabitans of "pablo picasso "


It's just a housing project so people with low incomes live there.In every city in the world there are housing projects, it's normal. In France most of the people who live in these hoods have arabic origins or african origins and there are some asiatics too. It's not like in USA where u got black ghettos, porto rican ghettos... The french housing projects are "multiracial".
Yea the drug dealers live there... for the moment. When they got enough money they buy a house far from the projects and u got kids who replace them cause customers will still come to the hood ....


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## Triumph Speed3 (Aug 11, 2004)

Suncity said:


> So you are the world veteran and India expert. I have visited many cities in the world and India too. I have seen places worse than Kolkata.


Name cities you visited that have more poverty and slumbs than ones in India. I have a hard time believing someone who once lived in the worst slums in India travelling all over the world. 




Suncity said:


> India is a mix of many levels of living. There's super poor and super rich. There's a big middle class too from lower middle class to upper middle class. No one can just pick and choose any particlular section and say that this is the "REAL" India. Even India veterans will never make that mistake.


Middle class did not exist in the 50, 60's in India and there has been an impressive growth in middle class in recent years in India, but don't make it sound like that there are more middle class people in happy la la land than people in extreme poverty and Dalits. Over 400 million Indians live below the poverty line, that is over 40% of your population, and there are another millions of lower class people. that is more than 300 million middle class+wealthy Indians. 




Suncity said:


> Check out the thread on fishing village and other discussions about slums in India. They have been started and discussed by Indians.


Sorry, I haven't read any posts about you guys dealing with poverty issues in India, the vibe I was getting were that you guys are denying the majority of India, and praising westernization that only applies to very few Indians. 

The impressions I got from my visits in India were that most middle class Indians think they are so much superior than the majority of Indians, 400 million+ Indians living below the poverty line, the ones sleep on the street, don't have sewer system at their homes, can't afford to go to school etc. I have talked to some educated young Indians who actually believe that there are more middle class happy Indians than poor ones, and India's future is bright and trouble free. Some of them even despise poors and embarrassed of them.

Go do some volunteer work if you are really concerned about India.

And sorry if I sounded too harsh, I love India but I am very disappointed with educated middle class Indians.


----------



## Suncity (Jun 9, 2004)

Triumph Speed3 said:


> Name cities that have more poverty and slumbs than ones in India.


I usually avoid saying anything bad about any place that's not my country on this forum. If it's not my country I will generally not say anything that's uncharitable. People on this forum post pictures of their countries so that others can appreciate it. 

BTW there are plenty of places with more slums and poverty. 



Triumph Speed3 said:


> I have a hard time believing someone who once lived in the worst slums in India travelling all over the world.


What's hard to believe in that? You pre-judge people. A lot of Indians have humble and poor backgrounds and they do manage to do well through hard work and studies. Even the President of India and Prime Minister of India are from humble backgrounds. The President's father collected sea shells for a living and the Prime Minister comes from a poor farmer family.



Triumph Speed3 said:


> Middle class did not exist in the 50, 60's in India and there has been an impressive growth in middle class in recent years in India, but don't make it sound like that there are more middle class people than people in extreme poverty and Dalits. Over 400 million Indians live below the poverty line, that is over 40% of your population, that is more than 300 million middle class Indians.


Middle class existed in 50s and 60s but the numbers were small. Now they are 300 million as per you. So the growth of the middle class has been impressive!

On the other hand the percentage of poor has also gone down a lot from over 75% to 26%. The numbers are still huge but the rate of growth of poverty has also come down a lot. That's not a mean achievement. Every Indian realizes that there is much more to be done.

BTW who is making it sound that there are more middle class Indian than poor Indians? Did I say that in any of my posts? I don't think anyone else did that either. So don't see why you have to criticize something that has not been said.



Triumph Speed3 said:


> Sorry, I haven't read any posts about you guys dealing with poverty issues in India, the vibe I was getting were that you guys are denying the majority of India, and praising westernization that only applies to very few Indians.


Show me a statement by an Indian on this forum where people have denied that poverty exists in India.

You really have got some cliched ideas about India and Indians.



Triumph Speed3 said:


> The impressions I got from my visits in India were that most middle class Indians think they are so much superior than 400 million Indians living below the poverty line, the ones sleep on the street, don't have sewer system at their homes, can't afford to go to school etc. I have talked to some educated young Indians who actually believe that there are more middle class happy Indians than poor ones, and India's future is bright and trouble free. Some of them even despise and embarrassed of the poors.


You have talked to "some", "educated" Indians. Based on that you draw conclusions about what that "most" middle class Indians "think". 

Most Indians do believe that India has a better future. But I have yet to see any Indian who says that India's future is trouble free.

I guess your small Indian circle and my big Indian circle are far removed from each other.



Triumph Speed3 said:


> Go do some volunteer work if you are really concerned about the future of India.


And what gives you the idea that I don't? I think I have spent quite a bit of my time in volunteering work. It's my country and it's my duty.

*BTW Who are you to say what I need to do? * 

That gives the impression that you are talking from a position of "superiority" (using your own word). 



Triumph Speed3 said:


> I am very disappointed with educated middle class Indians.


Obviously you don't know many educated middle class Indians. Maybe you should be mixing with the right types. Go to the schools, colleges, institutes and see if "educated" middle class Indians are the caricatures you make them out to be.


----------



## Triumph Speed3 (Aug 11, 2004)

Wow, you being offensive there,



Suncity said:


> I usually avoid saying anything bad about any place that's not my country on this forum. If it's not my country I will generally not say anything that's uncharitable.


Then I don't believe you. You can send me a mail if you are so righteous. But according to my experiences and other resources, India has the largest number of poor people and slums in the world.




Suncity said:


> What's hard to believe in that? You pre-judge people. A lot of Indians have humble and poor backgrounds and they do manage to do well through hard work and studies. Even the President of India and Prime Minister of India are from humble backgrounds.
> 
> It shows your superficial knowldege of India.


so what you are saying is that your president and prime minister grew up in slums? And you used to live in the biggest slums in India and somehow managed to succeed, and now you are now successful and an avid world traveller. Why do I have such a hard time believing it? I didn't know Indian caste system was so generous to Dalits and other unprivileged ones. Maybe I am wrong because of my superficial knowldege of India. 




Suncity said:


> Middle class existed in 50s and 60s but the numbers were small.
> 
> So the growth of the middle class has been impressive.
> 
> On the other hand the percentage of poor has also gone down a lot from over 75% to 26%. That's not a mean achievement.


Maybe I am wrong with my statistics,
it was from a book I have.
but according to 
http://www.indiaonestop.com/povertyindia.htm
my statistic is not too far off, 
an estimated 350-400 million are below the poverty line, 75 per cent of them in the rural areas.
that is about 35 miillion(35% of the population)+100's of millions of lower class people(ones live in chawls etc).
(BTW I don't fully believe what it says on indiaonestop.com.)




Suncity said:


> You really have got some cliched ideas about India and Indians.


Well, maybe I do, but it is from someone who actually visited there a couple of times extensively and been to most cities in India. My opinions are from actual visits there, not from newpapers, movies or books. I am entitled to make opinions about India, right? 
And maybe my opinion might be even more accurate than what you Indians think. Sometimes your judgements can be blurred when you actually live in it, and outsider's viewpoints can be more accurate. 
As a film maker, I know for fact my opinions on my own films are not always the same as critics or audiences think, and who is correct? Always the critics and viewers.



Suncity said:


> think I have spent quite a bit of my time in volunteering work. It's my country and it's my duty.


I am glad that you do volunteering works. I have a couple of westerner friends who lived in India(Dharamsala and Kolkata) to volunteer, and I've got an impression that most middle/upper class Indians are ignorant about volunteering works and poverty issues from what they said. 





Suncity said:


> That gives the impression that you are talking from a position of "superiority" (using your own word).
> Obviously you don't know many educated middle class Indians.


no, I am not talking from a postion of "superiority", you are getting that impression because of your insecurity. Maybe I don't know many educated middle class Indians, but when I did a TV report on Hijras, I met alot of alot of people in Scheduled Castes. I was very impressed by the lower class and spiritual Indians. I am not so impressed with hundreds of upper/middle class people,especially yuppie wannabes I met in India.


What makes India amazing is NOT modernity and westernization in India. 

Stop being embarrassed of slums in Mumbai that every foreign tourists are going see when they fly into the airport.
Stop being infatuated with new shopping malls and apartment buildings in Mumbai that only .000001% of Indians are going to use. You think westerners are going to be impressed with Indian shopping malls or skyscrapers?(well, more like what skyscrapers?)
Worry about hundreds of millions of Indians starving and dying on the streets, and not getting any education.
Worry about child labour and child prostitution issues in India.


----------



## Suncity (Jun 9, 2004)

Triumph Speed3 said:


> Wow, you being offensive there


I don't think I am the one being offensive here. Sorry, if you think I am.



Triumph Speed3 said:


> Then I don't believe you. You can send me a mail if you are that righteous.


Why on the earth should I send you mail? I have never asked you to believe me. Check my postings and you can judge for yourself. 

The reason I generally try to avoid saying strange things about another country is not because I am a saint or something. It is because saying something based on superficial knowledge creates misunderstandings and long threads...(One example is this thread...another was the thread on dirtiest cities...there are plenty of such examples on this forum).



Triumph Speed3 said:


> so what you are saying is that your president and prime minister are from slums?


I said they are from very "humble" backgrounds. You find hard to believe that? I am sure there must be some stuff on the net about them. And yes many of our political leaders and respected people have risen from slums / poverty.



Triumph Speed3 said:


> And you used to live in the biggest slums in India and somehow managed to succeed, and now you are now successful and an avid world traveller.


Well it's upto you to believe it or not. I "succeeded" (if you can say that) because of my parents and teachers' efforts.

I have said I have visited many countries. I never said I am an "avid" traveller. I don't have too much money and run on a budget. 



I am a bit amazed that you find that hard to believe! 



Triumph Speed3 said:


> Why do I have such a hard time believing it? I didn't know caste system was so generous to Dalits and other unprivileged ones. Maybe I am wrong because of my superficial knowldege of India.


I doubt you know much about the caste system. I have lived it. You have seen it from outside or read about it. The caste system has turned out to be a social evil. We have come a long way in 50 years trying to discard a thousand year old system which is filled with injustice. Could it and should it have been faster? Absolutely. Is there a long way to go? Yes. But is their hope? Of course. 

Is there is life beyond the caste system. Dalits and lower caste people are the majority and as they gain more political and social power, things will improve for all of us. 



Triumph Speed3 said:


> Maybe I am wrong with my statistics,it was from a book I have.
> but according to
> http://www.indiaonestop.com/povertyindia.htm
> my statistic is not too far off,
> ...


I am really puzzled with your math.

Whether its 300 million or 500 million poor, both numbers are large. It is also true that poverty rates have come down by large numbers. Just because we have 300 million poor doesn't mean we ignore the remaining 700 million Indians and say that it's only the 300 million poor who represent the real India. 



Triumph Speed3 said:


> Well, maybe I do, but it is from someone who actually visited there a couple of times extensively and been to most cities in India. Myopinions are from actual visits there, not from facts, newpapers, movies or books. I am ntitled to make opinions about India, culture, lower class India and upper class India, right?


You are entitled to your opinion of course as I am to mine. But generalizing Indians (or any nationality) is incorrect. 



Triumph Speed3 said:


> And maybe my opinions might be even more accurate than what you locals think. Sometimes your judgements can be blurred when you actually live in it, and outsider's viewpoints can be more accurate.


Although I disagree with some of your opinion, I agree with your point. Outsiders often have a better insight. But they also risk the problem of seeing another culture through a narrow pre-defined prism (example Lonely Planet).



Triumph Speed3 said:


> As a film maker, I know for fact that my opinions on what I make is not always the same as critics or audiences think, and who is correct? Always the critics and viewers.


In that case you are the film maker and I am the viewer. 





Triumph Speed3 said:


> I am glad that you do volunteering works. I have a couple of westerner friends who lived in India(Dharamsala and Kolkata) to volunteer, and I've got an impression that most middle/upper class Indians are ignorant about volunteering works and poverty issues from what they said.


I have heard that complaint before. You have to realize that India is a huge country and the majority of volunteers are Indians and not westerners. 

There are hundreds of Indian volunteer associations doing excellent work. They don't get publicity because they are doing things for their own country. What's the big deal in that?

It's my belief (and I may be wrong) - one of the main reasons is that most Indians volunteer in Hindu, Muslim or secular organizations. Most westerners volunteer in Christian or western funded NGOs. Thus their paths hardly cross.

Also there are plenty of selfish and snobbish Indians. That doesn't mean that the entire middle or upper class is like that.



Triumph Speed3 said:


> no, I am not talking from a postion of "superiority", you are getting that impression because of your insecurity. Maybe I don't know many educated middle class Indians, but when I did a TV report on Hijras, I met alot of alot of people in Scheduled Castes. I got impressed by the lower class and spiritual Indians, but not so impressed with upper/middle class people, especially yuppie wannabes.


I don't have any insecurities regarding this forum discussion. But I can make out when someone sounds "superior". 

You cannot judge a whole middle class based on some yuppie wannabes.



Triumph Speed3 said:


> What makes India amazing is NOT modernity and westernization in India.


India is amazing because of itself. And there is nothing wrong in trying to adapt the good points of modern western civilization.



Triumph Speed3 said:


> Stop being embarrassed of slums in Mumbai that every foreign tourists are going see when they fly into the airport.


It's not an embarrasment because foreign tourists see it. If that were the reason then those slums would have been cleared out. The general consensus is that there is no justification in clearing slums for beautification purposes. The slums are a reality and what bothers most Indians is that all of the projects of rehabilitation and improvement get bogged down in lengthy debates and court cases. There is no reason why the slums cannot be improved. That's the issue here.



Triumph Speed3 said:


> Stop being infatuated with new shopping malls and apartment buildings in Mumbai that only .000001% of Indians are going to use.


Well we have not seen such malls in India, before and thus many of us are currently infatuated with them. When they spread to every city and town it will be time to move on to something else.

And if just .000001% Indians went to malls, then they wouldn't be opening them in dozens. The malls and hypermarts are part of a more orgainized retailing structure that's happening now in India. It's bound to create more jobs that go back to the villages too (from where our food comes). 

As far as apartment buildings are concerned, there are thousands of them coming up in every city. Most of the apartments are built not as status symbols but because there is a need for them.



Triumph Speed3 said:


> You think westerners are going to be impressed with Indian shopping malls or skyscrapers?(well, more like what skyscrapers?)


The malls and the high rise buildings are being built for Indians. So don't see why westerners need to be impressed. Have you seen any Indian tourist brochure highlighting malls and highrise buildings?

We want westerners to enjoy the Taj Mahal, Hawa Mahal, Victorial Memorial and also like us as a country and a people.



Triumph Speed3 said:


> Worry about hundreds of millions of Indians starving and dying on the streets, and not getting any education. Worry about child labour and child prostitution issues in India.


I see that "superior" tone again?

The issues you raise are valid points and they are discussed threadbare in hundreds of Indian forums. (Most of us Indians are a highly politicized lot, know our rights and most of us will call a spade a spade!).

*So what do you suggest?* Should we Indians stop posting about highrise buildings and skylines of India in www.skyscrapercity.com because a large section of Indians are poor, don't have access to education, live on footpaths, have poor hygiene etc...? Should we only worry and start posting details of caste system, Dalits, child labour and child prostitution in a skyscraper /skyline forum? I doubt any forumer on this forum would be interested in discussing those issues. They are here to see buildings and skylines.


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## JuanPaulo (Feb 26, 2004)

Some more pics of slums I found on the net. I do not know the current conditions of these places...they might no exist at all today so if anybody knows, please update us.

Nairobi, Kenya









Rio de Janeiro, Brazil







\

Manaus, Brazil









Manila, Philippines









Dhaka, Bangladesh


















Bombay, India (January 2003)


















Hong Kong, China









Montego Bay, Jamaica









Colombo, Sri Lanka









Luxor, Egypt


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## Suncity (Jun 9, 2004)

More about slums...

*Every third person will be a slum dweller within 30 years, UN agency warns 

Biggest study of world's cities finds 940 million already living in squalor * 

John Vidal
Saturday October 4, 2003
The Guardian 

One in every three people in the world will live in slums within 30 years unless governments control unprecedented urban growth, according to a UN report. The largest study ever made of global urban conditions has found that 940 million people - almost one-sixth of the world's population - already live in squalid, unhealthy areas, mostly without water, sanitation, public services or legal security. 
The report, from the UN human settlements programme, UN-habitat, based in Nairobi, found that urban slums were growing faster than expected, and that the balance of global poverty was shifting rapidly from the countryside to cities. 

Africa now has 20% of the world's slum dwellers and Latin America 14%, but the worst urban conditions are in Asia, where more than 550 million people live in what the UN calls unacceptable conditions. 

The world's 30 richest countries are home to just 2% of slum dwellers; in contrast, 80% of the urban population of the world's 30 least developed countries live in slums. Although the report emphasised that not all slum dwellers are poor, the UN warned that unplanned, unsanitary settlements threaten political stability and are creating the climate for an explosion of social problems. 

Evils

"There is a vacuum developing, because local authorities have no access to the many slums," said Anna Tibaijuka, the director of UN-habitat. 

"Extreme inequality and idleness lead people to anti-social behaviour. Slums are the places where all the evils come together, where peace and security is elusive and where young people cannot be protected." 

Ms Tibaijuka called on governments to urgently address a deteriorating situation which potentially threatened security and would increase pressures on immigration to rich countries. The report found that some slums were now as large as cities. *The Kibera district in Nairobi, classed as the largest slum in the world, has as many as 600,000 people. The Dharavi area of Mumbai and the Orangi district of Karachi have only slightly fewer people, while the Ashaiman slum is now larger than the city of Tema in Ghana, around which it grew. * 
Other cities, such as Dhaka in Bangladesh, have several hundred small slums or squatter settlements, which have no access to services and are liable to be moved on at short notice. "The world is entering a significant stage," say the report's authors. "Over the next 30 years, the urban population in the developing world will double to about 4 billion people, at the rate of about 70 million a year. Rural populations will barely increase and begin to decline after 2020." 

The authors also predicted that threequarters of the world's anticipated population growth would take place in relatively small cities with populations of between 1 million and 5million. The report found that the world's urban population had increased by 36% in the 1990s, and that city authorities had been unable or unwilling to keep up. 

"Slums are the product of failed policies, bad governance, corruption and a lack of political will," the report says. "Very few countries have recognised this critical situation and very little effort is going into providing jobs or services." 

But the authors roundly blamed laissez-faire globalisation and "neo-liberal" economic policies imposed on poor countries by global institutions such as the International Monetary Fund and the World Trade Organisation for much of the damage caused to cities over the past 20 years.

The authors say people are encouraged to move to the cities by factors including the privatisation of public services, job losses, and the removal of subsidies and tax breaks from key industries. Such effects, they say, increase inequality, and make sure that those who move to the cities remain in deep poverty. 

"One of the few direct benefits that slum dwellers have gained from globalisation is greater access to aid agencies," the report says. 

"But the very limited advantages are outweighed by a truly formidable array of disadvantages - so many, in fact, that some governments might be excused for not wishing to take part at all in globalisation if they have the welfare of the urban poor at heart." 

"In a form of colonialisation that is probably more stringent than the original, many developing countries have become... suppliers of raw commodities to the world, and fall further and further behind." 

The authors conclude that as "cities have become a dumping ground for people working in unskilled, unprotected and low-wage industries and trades... the slums of the developing world swell".

*Centres of decay and deprivation*

· *Phnom Penh*, Cambodia Up to 230,000 people live in dilapidated buildings which are often flooded. Squatter settlements have grown beside railway tracks, canals and reservoirs 

· *Nairobi*, Kenya Some 600,000 people live in Kibera, the world's largest slum, where there is little running water, poor sanitary facilities and frequent outbreaks of violence 

· *Rio de Janeiro*, Brazil Favelas started appearing in the 1950s, and there are now about 700, housing a total of about 1 million people. *Many have been upgraded * 

· *Colombo*, Sri Lanka Thousands live in deteriorating tenement blocks or derelict houses on high land in the old city centre 

· *Cairo*, Egypt Slum areas have developed on desert land owned by the state. Some began as relocation sites for rubbish collectors and the army 

· *Mumbai*, India Tens of thousands live in decaying slums known as *chawls*. These were built by factory owners and sometimes collapse in the monsoons 

*Chawl development in Mumbai:*

The build-up to a new Mumbai
By: Gigil Varghese 
August 27, 2004 

http://www.mid-day.com/news/city/2004/august/90972.htm

Every month, MHADA and BMC have been approving 30 buildings in south Mumbai, which can be redeveloped by private builders. *So far a whopping 19,462 low-rise buildings, mostly chawls, have been identified for the construction projects.*

South Mumbai’s skyline is set for a drastic makeover. Skyscrapers of 20 floors and more will soon be replacing low-rise chawls, synonymous with the city.

The Maharashtra Housing and Area Development Authority (MHADA) and the Brihanmumbai Municipal Corporation (BMC) have recently identified 19,462 buildings in the city that can be redeveloped by private builders.

According to redevelopment rules, builders can build 50 per cent more flats in the new projects and sell them at market rates. Since property rates in South Mumbai range between Rs 5,200 and Rs 10,500 per square feet, builders can make a killing on the sale of extra flats. 

Builders are reportedly making a beeline for the projects. According to government sources, MHADA and BMC are reported to be issuing 30 approvals every month for such projects. 
Areas that are being dotted with buildings with over 20 storeys are Girgaum, Gamdevi, Prabhadevi and Khetwadi. The old tenants are being accommodated around the property according to the area they previously lived in. 

“Although there was a demand for flats in south Mumbai, supply was dead. Now, residents in suburbs who can afford to, can buy a flat in these new buildings,” said Sunil Mantri, secretary of the Maharashtra Chamber of Housing and Infrastructure (MCHI).

A property developer, Harish Mehta, who is developing 11 properties in south Mumbai said that the pace at which the redevelopment is happening will stabilise the price of property in south Mumbai.

Though the redevelopment will bring in wider roads near the buildings, the redevelopment scheme has not been able to address water and other infrastructure-related problems for the residents. 
The highs...

* Every flat will measure between 1,200-1,500 sq feet 
* Multi-storeyed parking facility
* Wider roads near the buildings
* Health clubs 
* Conference rooms
* Landscaped gardens 
* High speed and more service lifts 

... and the lows

* Water supply has not increased in proportion to the number of flats 
* Old municipal sewage pipes have not been replaced 
* The widening of roads has been uneven. While redeveloped buildings have left space for widening of roads, undeveloped properties next door mean that the roads do not have a consistent width
* Maintenance charges in the new buildings will be hefty 

There are pros and cons to shifting from this place. We are happy to shift to the new tower because the old house did not have a lift and other amenities. But the maintainence charges are also going to be more. 
— Saraswatichand Ratanchand Javeri (72)
Resident of the 100-year-old Kothari Mansion, Girgaum 


The old chawl did not have enough light. We had to use fluorescent lights during the day too. Here, we have enough air and sunlight.
— Gita Vasudev Nimlekar (58)
Resident of a high-rise near Shiv Tapi, Gamdevi 

“I like to sit near the window in the evening and look at the sea at Marine Drive. I am happy to shift here as the bungalow was for one family. As the size of the family increased we had to make alterations.
— Nandini Shah (65)
Resident of a 100-year-old bungalow, Mani Jugal, now replaced by a high-rise, Saarthi, Chowpatty


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## Triumph Speed3 (Aug 11, 2004)

Suncity,

No offense, 
but I never meant to sound superior,
I feel more kinship toward what I call REAL Indians, 
and I have huge respect for your culture and religion.

What I said so far are very true to my opinions,
As I said before I have been to many countries,
from Cambodia to Tanzania,
and 
Yes, I saw dead bodies in Paraganj and other places in India, I saw people taking sh*t and piss on the street everywhere in India, the summer in Delhi is hellish, almost everyone gets sick from food in India, India is the least hygienic nation I have been to, one of the worst airports in the world, the worst road(Grand Trunk Road) etc.
everything I have said are true.
That does not mean I dislike India, 

What supprises me the most is the you and other Indian posters' values are very westernized. What I mentioned above are mere truth, but nothing to be ashamed of.


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## JuanPaulo (Feb 26, 2004)

Triumph Speed3 said:


> Yes, I saw dead bodies in Paraganj and other places in India


You mean you saw dead bodies laying on the road or in the slums or something??? I might have miss your first posts but I don't understand this?


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## Suncity (Jun 9, 2004)

Triumph Speed3 said:


> Suncity,
> 
> No offense,
> but I never meant to sound superior,
> ...


I take your opinions and experiences of India at face value. 

The only thing that I object to is what you are trying imply (maybe without knowing it).

You are saying that the "real India" is what you think  and what you saw  and the "unreal India" is what we portray. You believe that only some people who fit your pre defined standards are "real Indians". The rest like us who don't fit the bill are "westernized" etc. You saw dead bodies in Paharganj so that has to be the real India. I didn't see any then I must be talking of the unreal India. 

You also make it sound like Indians are "ashamed" of their problems because what others may think. The truth is most Indians are worried about their problems and are seeking solutions for their own good. They are ashamed because they have not been able to do better. They are not ashamed because someone saw them having unhygenic conditions. After all they will be the ones living their lives. Someone else is not going to live it for them.

You may like India and you may like India's religions and cultures but the net result of your comments is that they end up generalizing and caricaturing India. 

You use the term "westernized" as if it is some kind of imposition on Indians. In that sense I doubt I am "westernized". If I were "westernized" in that sense then I would be agreeing with you instead of disagreeing.

I apologise if I have offended you or hurt your sensitivities.


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## kshatriya (Jun 14, 2004)

Suncity has said all that needs to be said, but I'll just put in my 2 paise worth.
Tiumph Speed3........You see India through a very narrow focus, based on your thoughts from talking to a few Indians and visiting a few places in India. I doubt you could've visited all of India, it's a massive country. The things you have seen are happening, no one doubts what you have said. But "Indians" (Not the few NRI's or "educated" people that you have met, they are a minority) are not ashamed of their country, they are very proud of it. To an extent we want our cities to be slum free so that it's a nicer place to live in, but we know their difficulties more than you do, so there's no need for you to "educate" us "dillusioned" Indians. I know how much the society has changed, I know that the cast system is dying a slow death and that Dalits and other minorities today enjoy several special benifits. I know how much poverty has reduced and know how much is yet to be done. With a population of over a billion, there are a lot of people that need help and everything will take time, but I'm happy that things are moving forward. Re. the Indian forumers on here, why don't you visit the India forum regularly? We openly discuss our problems there in more detail. Since you seem to have an inerest for India and it's issues, maybe you could join us there?


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## cicarra (May 29, 2004)

Triumph Speed3 said:


> Suncity,
> 
> No offense,
> but I never meant to sound superior,
> ...


Are you serious!? Wow, I'm surprised. :runaway:


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## Sexas (Jan 15, 2004)

JuanPaulo said:


> Some more pics of slums I found on the net. I do not know the current conditions of these places...they might no exist at all today so if anybody knows, please update us.
> Hong Kong, China


Wow! so many A/C, how can this be a slum?


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## Menino de Sampa (Sep 21, 2003)

^^^^^^^^

Î agree, this is not slum, just ugly buildings.


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

Do historical slums count in this thread? :?

Well if they do, I present to you Lower Manhattan in the 1890's:













































































































Many people worked in sweathshops


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

Then of course there were the infamous slums of Victorian London:










A family of 10 living in an attic:









People lived in all kinds of weird places. Here are census-takers counting some people:


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

A few more of NYC before the turn of the century:

Homeless on Mulberry St









Tenement off of Jersey St









A nicer view of Mulberry St









Kids playing









By the 1940's, this is what the Lower East Side had deteriorated to:


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## JuanPaulo (Feb 26, 2004)

Wow good pics. I guess the Hong Kong buildings for many are just gettoes, but then again, following the formal Webster definition of a "slum", they would also be catagorizes as "slums"


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## gentlejunho (Aug 12, 2004)

I once lived in the place where is really near the place of the moon village located in the bongchon dong.(not that I was from the poor family but I used to have to save money so I just entered to live there for cheaper rent for about 7 months.)

Its no dangerous to live there but I liked living there because the people are more warmly and diligent.
They better abide by the trash recycling policy and they keep clean on the street although they dress in poor way and the house look really old and poor.
If some neighbour have serious financial problem,they colect donation from the neighbours.Trust me.

Most of them get up before at 6 and then go out for working.
Its great to live near them.
I still miss my days lived there.


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## Trances (May 19, 2003)

great find looking in to the past there Bond


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## gentlejunho (Aug 12, 2004)

although the pics are kind of old dayed and this district was placed by the new construction. I liked living near there.

It was safer and more impressive living there.


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## mybach (Sep 18, 2004)

Thunderflip said:


> That Seoul slum photo is ages old.Today, I think Seouls is slum-free from what I know.


:nono: 
Seoul,Korea,now


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## rayman (Jan 11, 2004)

szehoong said:


> yea.....a lot of people whom haven't been to KL think that is real!
> 
> 
> To increase the exotic fair of the movie, instead of staying at the various hotels in KL which are very cheap, they decided to stay in some run-down shophouse (and they just had to access it from a 'dirty' backlane as if shophouses do not have shop-front access).
> ...


Yeah, I dont know why they wanna show asia as a poor country with lots of slums and run down buildings, but when they make movies in the US they always have to live in some luxury apartment and stay in modern skyscrapers and fly by helicopter to show of some glassy facades, but as I said above in asias case they will build up some slum or just stay in a slum place during all the movie..... If you seen The Beach with leonardo they only stayed in kao san road when they were in Bangkok (one of Bangkoks ugliest street) which made the look of Bangkok so poor and unmodern but in real its a very modern city.


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## Trances (May 19, 2003)

i think that little unfair on Kao San Rd
its hardly the worst place or even indicative of some of the places in Bangkok


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## FM 2258 (Jan 24, 2004)

Menino de Sampa said:


> ^^^^^^^^
> 
> Î agree, this is not slum, just ugly buildings.


Yeah, I thought you had to be rich to live in Hong Kong.


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## Cauo (Oct 29, 2003)

*@all*

more pictures of Slums , please i find this thread interesting , have anyone here more pics of sao paqulo ? Please post !


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

I took this in Sao Paulo, close to USP...









But I really LOVE these victorian London slums, not that I wanted to live there, but they are really romantic - even if it sounds a bit strange. Charles Dickens is watching you


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

Kuesel said:


> But I really LOVE these victorian London slums, not that I wanted to live there, but they are really romantic - even if it sounds a bit strange. Charles Dickens is watching you


If you're interested in that sort of thing, this here is an excellent site on London during Victorian times - they're soon to put the whole site contents into a book as well:
http://www.victorianlondon.org/

And here's a site with pics of children of the London slums:
http://www.hiddenlives.org.uk/photographs/streets.html
^
A sample from that site:


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## clive330 (Nov 10, 2003)

rayman said:


> If you seen The Beach with leonardo they only stayed in kao san road when they were in Bangkok (one of Bangkoks ugliest street) which made the look of Bangkok so poor and unmodern but in real its a very modern city.


No its not! The vast majority of Bangkok would be regarded as a slum by western standards. Even the very nice areas have a boom gate with a guard and its straight into slums with people just sitting about, dirt and stray dogs.

Fly over Bangkok and its virtually all low rise, old, dirty buildings. Where there might be a new shopping centre, it will be surrounded by hundreds of dirty old buildings. There certainly are a few nice, fully developed areas, but they are not the majority. 

Even if Thailands economy can continue growing at the rate it achieved in much of the 90s, Bangkok is so huge that it will take decades to develop the whole place. However, as with Istanbul, I would say that Bangkok's poor areas feel a lot safer than in most other developing or developed countries.


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## JuanPaulo (Feb 26, 2004)

clive330 said:


> No its not! The vast majority of Bangkok would be regarded as a slum by western standards. Even the very nice areas have a boom gate with a guard and its straight into slums with people just sitting about, dirt and stray dogs.
> 
> Fly over Bangkok and its virtually all low rise, old, dirty buildings. Where there might be a new shopping centre, it will be surrounded by hundreds of dirty old buildings. There certainly are a few nice, fully developed areas, but they are not the majority.
> 
> Even if Thailands economy can continue growing at the rate it achieved in much of the 90s, Bangkok is so huge that it will take decades to develop the whole place. However, as with Istanbul, I would say that Bangkok's poor areas feel a lot safer than in most other developing or developed countries.


I do not agree with you clive330. I have been to Bangkok and many areas of the city look as 1st world as any city in the US or Europe...even better. Yes there are some slums in the city but by your comment it appears like you really haven't seen Bangkok, not even on pics. btw, I think you should be more careful when you talk about a place, even if you do not like it. You are entitled to your own opinion, but I think you comments are rude and provocative.


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

Bond James Bond said:


> If you're interested in that sort of thing, this here is an excellent site on London during Victorian times - they're soon to put the whole site contents into a book as well:
> http://www.victorianlondon.org/
> 
> And here's a site with pics of children of the London slums:
> ...


Thanks a lot, I will surf around today a bit in these sites! I have a book with these old pictures and some discriptions of the llife conditions and diseases spread over....


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## redstone (Nov 15, 2003)

Although Singapore does not have any true slums, there are a few rural villages left.


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

Hey I found some more old London ones . . .









Slum housing at Snowfields, Bermondsey.









Backyard of one of the lodging houses in Mill Lane Deptford.









This one is relatively recent, from the page on which it was found . . .
*"Sherston Place in Bermondsey. By 1900, the living conditions in Bermondsey were awful. There were known examples of nine people living in one room and one tap serving 25 houses with no sanitation. Conditions remained bad well into the 20th century. 
Creator: Unknown 
Date: c.1920"*

Then there's also a page on Liverpool:
http://www.mersey-gateway.org/server.php?show=nav.00100g004


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

JuanPaulo said:


> I do not agree with you clive330. I have been to Bangkok and many areas of the city look as 1st world as any city in the US or Europe...even better. Yes there are some slums in the city but by your comment it appears like you really haven't seen Bangkok, not even on pics. btw, I think you should be more careful when you talk about a place, even if you do not like it. You are entitled to your own opinion, but I think you comments are rude and provocative.


Isn't Bangkok going to free of slums within two or so years?


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## Cauo (Oct 29, 2003)

*@cello*



cello1974 said:


> Sao Paulo, almost 800,000 people live in favelas and Cingapura housing projects, starting with the worst pictures:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


interesting pictures cello
; i am so scarry when i think about the fact that there are a lot of housing projects in SP they are turned into "slums" ! why? and do you know the percentage of housing projects in your city ?


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

Hey, cool pics Grollo. I didn't know Aus ever had slums.


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## Never (Jan 9, 2004)

Newcastle Upon Tyne England









Glasgow Slums









London Slums









Belfast


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## centralized pandemonium (Aug 16, 2004)

Wow, cricket was populor in Australia in the 30's.


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

Cauo said:


> interesting pictures cello
> ; i am so scarry when i think about the fact that there are a lot of housing projects in SP they are turned into "slums" ! why? and do you know the percentage of housing projects in your city ?


Actually, 1.2 million people were settled into these housing projects, which became slums after a while. The people are still poor, although they have better housing quality, so their "carrers" are still those of criminals, dealers, murderers, thieves etc... 800,000 people are still living in slums. To have a notion of what we are speaking: In the same city every 10th inhabitant (measured in Brazilian R$ even every 7th) is a millionaire! And the middle class is still huge! This is one reason why it cannot be considered developped. Much of the development is still upper-class and middle class, not lower class as they are "settled around" in the city without improving their financial situation.


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## aplz (Oct 13, 2004)

Found these on Filthymess ages ago.

They're original photos of NYC from the 1970's.



















_You can see the people on the bottom, so some these buildings were actually inhabited_


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## carfentanyl (May 14, 2003)

A ghetto is not the same as a slum, and a slum is not the same as a shantytown.

People from 2nd and 3rd world countries saying that the USA has no slums and that life is 'great' in the US ghettos compared to some of the 3rd world shantytowns don't see things in the right perspective I think.

I mean what's worse? Living in a rundown neighbourhood in a developed country like the US with a very high crime and violence rate or living in a shantytown somewhere in India where life might not be that dangerous at all? It's probably harder to deal with the big difference between poor and rich in a developed country than between poor and less poor in a developing country.


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## Trances (May 19, 2003)

those newyorks
hard to belive they exisit


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## rdm (Jun 13, 2004)

*@ all*

any pictures of chinese slums?


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## sean storm (Nov 18, 2004)

any pictures of filipino slums?


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## km-sh (Mar 3, 2004)

I think there're no slums in Shanghai or other Chinese cities.


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## SkylineTurbo (Dec 22, 2004)

^ There probobly are, just not commonly known.


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## Bluestreak (Nov 23, 2004)

JuanPaulo said:


> First of all, this is Webster's dictionary definition of "slum":
> 
> Slum:  heavily populated urban area characterized by substandard housing and squalor. A foul back street of a city, especially one filled with a poor, dirty, degraded, and often vicious population; any low neighborhood or dark retreat. Usually in the plural form.
> 
> ...


The difference in slums in say Rio or Chicago is that many slums in Chicago are public housing and aren't constructed by the poeple who live there and have sanitation and water, gas lines (though if you don't pay it gets turned off) Many slum areas of the city were once prosperous neighbrohoods that became slums over the years. Many are being revitalized rather rapidly.

There was a story of a man who was living in a bridge for 3 years or soemthing. He had a tv, a playstations. Pretty amazing. It's a bridge that raises up to let boats through.
Slums differ and appear to depend on social equalities and inequalities. Brazil doesn't seem to provide as much public housing as the US and therefore has more people squatting on government land. Right?


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## Bluestreak (Nov 23, 2004)

For pics of slums and urban decay go to this site. It might be on Skyscrapercity already but for those of you who don't know of it, just copy into your address bar.

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...=/images?q=chicago+housing+projects&hl=en&lr=


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## km-sh (Mar 3, 2004)

Bluestreak said:


> For pics of slums and urban decay go to this site. It might be on Skyscrapercity already but for those of you who don't know of it, just copy into your address bar.
> 
> http://images.google.com/imgres?img...=/images?q=chicago+housing+projects&hl=en&lr=


can see nothing


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## Bluestreak (Nov 23, 2004)

km-sh said:


> can see nothing


Sorry. It works as a link for me when I click it. It's a pretty extensive site.

A lot of slum areas on the west side of Chicago were created after the riots when Martin Luther King Jr. was killed. People destroyed their own neighborhoods and they never recovered.


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## potto (Sep 12, 2002)

Errr I think that there is a mis-conception with 'slum'. Mostly slums are collections of semi-permanent 'illegal' housing and shelters; they are built on private, public or non-owned land without permission. Therefore one can have all the amenities, such as TVs, mobile phones, refrigerators as any other home but it is the status of the legality of the home that is the question and also the problem: The legality means that the Authorities do not recognise or acknowledge their existence and therefore the slum areas are often not integrated into the city infrastructure to get clean water, dispose of sewage etc Slums may also be 'cleared' without consultation and are therefore deemed temporary in nature. However you will find a very tight-knit community, involving shared resources and efficient living. The people living in slums rely on an informal economy to earn money, this is often a relatively low income amount therefore the quality of their homes is poor but not always. The informal economy is never acknowledged or regulated but plays a vital role in the city and again is often highly efficient. 

Current urban thinking says that slum areas and the informal economies that help run them should be recognised legally and be joined with the infrastructure of the city, this will help rid the areas of the health issues of poor quality water and sewage, but will allow the peoples lives to go on as they were and keep their communities and investments intact. This is required because to educate and support a single person to achieve the levels of GDP output as a typical person in the US costs many millions of dollars, this is an impossible scenario to achieve in most countries in the current capitalist structured world economy (simply divide the total GDP of a country and divide that by the number of working age population and see the impossibility of the task) and therefore the informal economy has to stay.

The UN gives these guidelines to authorities to measure a 'slum';
Access to improved water (access to sufficient amount of water for family use, at an affordable price, available to household members without being subject to extreme effort); 
Access to improved sanitation (access to an excreta disposal system, either in the form of a private toilet or a public toilet shared with a reasonable number of people); 
Security of tenure (evidence of documentation to prove secure tenure status or de facto or perceived protection from evictions) 
Durability of housing (permanent and adequate structure in non-hazardous location) 
Sufficient living area (not more than two people sharing the same room).

Social housing are not slums... in the parts of the 'developed' and 'developing' world large scale social housing arose from slum clearance, this was a physical and legalisation change of the slums nature however the fundamental level of poverty and the causes of that poverty are never dealt with by a purely physical change (are you listening Rayman?!) and social housing, although dealing with an initial issue of dilapidation and health problems, have always been the poor-man of the city.

Of particular note, coming back to the idea that 'slums' are better than slum clearance in the long term... the methods of slum clearance employed are very damaging for the long-term stability of the area, see the large scale post war slum clearance in London that basically tore apart communities that had existed for many generations to disperse the population into new homes in new towns. This led to the social decay of many areas leading people to reminisce about the good days of the slum...


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## Menino de Sampa (Sep 21, 2003)

Cauo said:


> interesting pictures cello
> ; i am so scarry when i think about the fact that there are a lot of housing projects in SP they are turned into "slums" ! why? and do you know the percentage of housing projects in your city ?


? It's the opposite: the slums are turned in housing projects.


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## Minas68/AI5 (Sep 21, 2004)

Cauo said:


> interesting pictures cello
> ; i am so scarry when i think about the fact that there are a lot of housing projects in SP they are turned into "slums" ! why? and do you know the percentage of housing projects in your city ?


because the people there have no education (unfortunately), sense of Fashion, good taste in music or hygiene. a good chunk of them are even criminals. that's why a housing project is turned into a slum again


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## FM 2258 (Jan 24, 2004)

Slums look kinda cool to me, as long as I don't live in one.


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

km-sh said:


> I think there're no slums in Shanghai or other Chinese cities.


This is not true. I have seen a report on Shanghai and other Chinese cities and their slums. They looked like bombed out houses, and if Tokyo and Hong Kong have them why shouldn't China have them??? UNO says that about 20% of Shanghaians live in slums. :cheers:


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## odegaard (Jul 27, 2004)

FM 2258 said:


> Slums look kinda cool to me, as long as I don't live in one.


I second that. Poor people have to live somewhere. :cheers:


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## Ubermensch (Aug 20, 2004)

I'm from Bombay, India. I love the place but I'm not going to fool myself or others by saying that we dont have any slums! We have too many!

Recently, our new Chief Minister for the state has gone on a demolition drive. Displacing almost 3 million people by destroying illegal structures. Some have been rehabilitated while others have left to go back to their villages.

Could the forumers here tell me how slums have been irradicated in their countries? Where did these people go? and Who fills the jobs that these slum dwellers once held?


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

Ubermensch said:


> Who fills the jobs that these slum dwellers once held?


Indians  Only joking

In the UK most slums were cleared during the first half of the twentieth century, the government mainly did this by building better housing . The people who used to live in them became more prosperous because of the welfare state and better education while the jobs they used to do are now done in developing countries. There are still poor areas where people do not work or have menial jobs that cannot be exported but they are not 'slums' which could be compared to 19th century Britain or the developing world.


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

Ubermensch said:


> Could the forumers here tell me how slums have been irradicated in their countries? Where did these people go? QUOTE]
> Building Cingapura housings, named after the city of Singapore:
> 
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2005)

Here's an example of what is being done in South Africa's informal settlements (don't ever call it a slum, you will be smacked by the locals  

This is what one of Johannesburg's largest townships, Alexandra, looked like:





































And now:




































































































A River runs through it ......

Before:




























And Now:


























































































































































Roads were sand roads or didn't exist but now:



























































































And then there was light :




























Leisure activities:




























Art:


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## Alex Pox (Jan 9, 2005)

km-sh said:


> I think there're no slums in Shanghai or other Chinese cities.


Are you kidding me???
There are also slum-like places in HK, Taiwan, NewYork, maybe seoul!!Why not CHINA!!!
I'm Chinese and I live in China too and I can prove that some Chinese cities are developing incredibly rapidly, but "NO SLUMS"? Not that good yet!
And actually some small cities are quite ugly with boring achitectures and are poorly planned, why do I know that? Because I grew up in one of them! not like some arrogant people who were born in the luxerious Shanghai and never see the other side of our country!
I think you should learn to respect the fact and other people......


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## Puntagorda (Jan 19, 2003)

..


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

Another great find of classic American slums!!!!!

Here's some more, from the 40's and 50's. . .

Mississippi





























Johnstown, PA, 1940 - WHAT A DUMP!!!!!



















Even lots of white ppl back then were really poor. 









Scranton, PA, 1941









Mobile, AB, 1941


















Straight out of Porgy and Bess!









Somewhere in Kentucky, LOL









Somewhere in South Carolina









These next ones are from a GREAT site with pics of Savannah, Georgia in the 1940's . . .

Pics are here:
http://www.library.armstrong.edu/lis1/lis1-05.html


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## Cauo (Oct 29, 2003)

*@passadico and all that knows*



passadiço said:


> Favela in Morumbi the richest area of Sao Paulo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 the pictures from morumbi with the office scrapers of COMPAQ; NESTLE ans so on .. this are quite shocking to see this what an contrast , is it right that this favela called favela real parque ? have any person here more pictures of this contrast area , eventuelly satelite pictures this favela must be very big ?


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## General Huo (Jan 4, 2005)

cello1974 said:


> This is not true. I have seen a report on Shanghai and other Chinese cities and their slums. They looked like bombed out houses,


They looked like bombed out because we were tearing down for building new houses in those places.



> and if Tokyo and Hong Kong have them why shouldn't China have them???


because China is still a socialism nation, I didn't see slums in old soviet cities either. socialism nations have no super-riches, neither super-poors in the city.



> UNO says that about 20% of Shanghaians live in slums. :cheers:


I never heard that, mind to give us a link?

I did see quite large size slum houses in late 1970s and early 1980s, when Culture Revolution was just over and many people who were forced to go to countryside backing to cities, so many just build slums. but in late 1980s and early 1990s those slums were virtually all gone, because 1)in that period of time Chinese economy grew in double digits. 2)gov built lots of commie blocks in that time to house those people in slums, yes in that time people still got houses from gov and there is no house for sell, you just need to pay little rent.

But now we are building nicer looking commie blocks, but this time all houses are for sale, you have tp pay for them(capitalism now, socialism are gone) . and of course large size of old commie blocks are getting tearing down every where, like being bombed out, and many western journalists shots them during tearing down, and "see, Chinese slums" lol


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## nygirl (Jul 14, 2003)

aplz said:


> Found these on Filthymess ages ago.
> 
> They're original photos of NYC from the 1970's.
> 
> ...




See, this is interesting and i dont know if anyone mentioned it before I did not read into this thread that much, just looked at the pics but alot of people in harlem, and the south bronx especially back in the 1970's and into the 1980's were burning down their own apartment buildings i forget why, money and ecomincally related most likely.


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

Cauo said:


> the pictures from morumbi with the office scrapers of COMPAQ; NESTLE ans so on .. this are quite shocking to see this what an contrast , is it right that this favela called favela real parque ? have any person here more pictures of this contrast area , eventuelly satelite pictures this favela must be very big ?


Here are some other ones:
Favela Heliópolis, São Paulo's biggest favela, has 69,000 inhabitants:









This is an areal view of Morumbi (who the hell wants to live in these Apartment buildings?????):









The "best" pics are still those of Rio de Janeiro:























:runaway: :runaway: :runaway: :runaway: :eek2: :eek2:


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

No Real Parque isn't that big. And it has improvede a lot and will improve more!


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

More Real Parque:

















But most of the slums are being cleared like this, it is called Cingapura:















:cheers:


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## Cauo (Oct 29, 2003)

*@cello*



cello1974 said:


> More Real Parque:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 interesting pictures of sao paulo cello - but are the baracks in the one picture in front of the office scrapers still exist yes or no ? 

i think cingapura projects are an good idea but the danger is that this cingapura houses can also turn into slums in time or not ?


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## Zaqattaq (Nov 17, 2004)

WOW that old Johnstown,PA pic is great

p.s. it is still a shitty ass city full of drug dealers now


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

The cingapuras have the advenatge that the people still can live in their neighbourhood in their social environment, not like in France or the US where the slum people were deslocated to some beaulieux.

The disadvantage: only close to the important highways and the city center the cingapuras are quickly built (like the Favela do Gato at the Tiete). In the deep south of Sao Paulo where it is most important, the people still live in conditions like in the poorest african country and nobody cares - out of sight... and the other thing: people who move to the cingapuras have now to pay for electricity and water - but I don't know if there is a big difference to what they pay the gatos (the illegal infrastructure "distributers").


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

Kuesel said:


> The cingapuras have the advenatge that the people still can live in their neighbourhood in their social environment, not like in France or the US where the slum people were deslocated to some beaulieux.
> 
> The disadvantage: only close to the important highways and the city center the cingapuras are quickly built (like the Favela do Gato at the Tiete). In the deep south of Sao Paulo where it is most important, the people still live in conditions like in the poorest african country and nobody cares - out of sight... and the other thing: people who move to the cingapuras have now to pay for electricity and water - but I don't know if there is a big difference to what they pay the gatos (the illegal infrastructure "distributers").


It is not right that nobody cares about the people who live in the South. Afriend of mine, Ana Carolina is architect and works at the city administration. There are various projects. But the problem is: There are too many projects and there is a quarrel (since 3 years!!!) about how to clear S SP slums the best way. Some want to use the area cleared as industrial park, otherrs want to renature them. And it is very difficult to intervene in those slums. 
But as it seems, there will be built 13 to 15storey apartment houses, as the ground there is very expensive!!!


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

Cauo said:


> interesting pictures of sao paulo cello - but are the baracks in the one picture in front of the office scrapers still exist yes or no ?
> 
> i think cingapura projects are an good idea but the danger is that this cingapura houses can also turn into slums in time or not ?


Yes, many barracks still exist. Many times you can see new barracks being built in the middle of the Cingapuras! :bash:


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

Leichestern said:


> From what I can see, i get the impression that the living conditions in slums in Bangkok is a bit higher than those in India, africa or south america.


No. At least in Brazil, most slums have sewage, tap water, electricity and so forth! This is big rubbish!


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

Leichestern said:


> From what I can see, i get the impression that the living conditions in slums in Bangkok is a bit higher than those in India, africa or south america.


No. At least in Brazil, most slums have sewage, tap water, electricity and so forth! This is big rubbish!


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## Klas (May 16, 2005)

have any person here pictures of the barrios of Buenos aires ? thanks !


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## BHK25 (Jan 25, 2005)

Depresing. Millions of people living in those conditions.Poor people in USA complain about the way the live. They should check this thread out.


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## XiaoBai (Dec 10, 2002)

I think this has already been brought up, but this is not a slum--the buildings aren't very attractive but this is a typical chinese residential neighborhood...notice how they all have A/C...perhaps hanging the clothes out the window looks slummy, but again--that's just the chinese and their obsession with air-drying their clothes.


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## Leichestern (Oct 28, 2004)

cello1974 said:


> No. At least in Brazil, most slums have sewage, tap water, electricity and so forth! This is big rubbish!


That's why I said i get the impression. It may be true or not true to what I had said. It's just the impression i get about Bangkok's slums.


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

You have to differ between slums and squatterings. Favelas in Brazil are mostly the latter - illegally built houses (mostly not shacks, but real brick buildings, it's not anymore Orpheo Negro era ) that steal water and electricity from the city's infrastructure by a so-called "gato". Favela is not the same as povertry and the other way round. Sometimes you see very nice houses of people who became rich but stayed in the favela. 

A slum is a neighbourhood in decline as the area between central station and Rodoviaria in Rio or St. Efigenia neighbourhood in Sampa. But also some of the declined Paris or Moscow beaulieux.

BTW: Asia vs Brazil: only what I know by visiting places personally - in Brazil the favelas and lower neighbourhoods are HUGE and ugly, but have mostly all the infrastructure, TV, cars etc while for example in Indonesia there is always some small shacks in modern and center neighbourhoods. The life is more miserable there I think, but it's less outstanding!


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## oki (Jul 18, 2004)

i'm fascinated in pittsburgh slums from the early 20th. century. they are great.
they are more human then todays hongkong slums


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## bmkhan (Jan 3, 2005)

here goes some chicago housing projects


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

Here is a social housing project in São Paulo


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

Ah, I found  
Thanks, Cello!


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## ReddAlert (Nov 4, 2004)

hydrogen said:


> ^Sure...
> 
> *Cabrini Green*
> 
> ...


I read they used to have 11 shootings a night--in that one building.


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## ThaQuest (Apr 25, 2004)

these are the most slum like pictures i could dig up that i have uploaded to the internet. 

kwun tong, hong kong:









mong kokg, hong kong (sorta but not really):









lian tang, shenzhen. these are commie blocks where low-income factory workers live, but probably not "slums":


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## i_am_hydrogen (Dec 9, 2004)

bump


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## swivel (Feb 26, 2004)

decay sbx style - circa 1989


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## Klas (May 16, 2005)

*@all*

is it right that the slum pop in big cities is growing up to 1,5 milliards in 2020 !? more photos please !


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## Klas (May 16, 2005)

*@all*

whats with more slum pics of your cities countrys please ? !


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## jagjag (Jul 29, 2005)

I used to live in a slum in Bangkok and my mom still does. She refuses to leave. She said she'd die where she was born. well, stupid of her but anyway, i think if all slum-dwellers in Bangkok act like her then it's tough to get rid of slums in my city. It's not that bad living in a slum. People tend to be very territorial and if you learn not to tresspass, then you'd be alive and well in a slum.

there will always be poor in bangkok no matter what unless they themselves will do something about it. no matter how good the government programs are, if the people will not help themselves, then might as well give the programs to the rats.

Many of Bangkok's citizens, especially the nouveau riche, refuse to see the truth that there are big time slums in Bangkok. They want to forget their past. They want to forget that they used to be poor. I used to be ashamed myself for being so poor. I am not rich, but just better. There's nothing to be ashamed of being poor living far away from the royal family's world. I was born poor and it was not my fault nor my parent's fault.

but again, if you open your eyes, there are slums in bangkok even if it's not as big as rio's or jakarta's. i just hate your rich noses' arrogance. please. and i don't believe it's going to be eradicated in a short time. Capitalism will always make a poor out of people. if everyone's rich, who would labor the businessmen's factories? If i'm rich, i wouldn't even think of working in one.


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## c0kelitr0 (Jul 6, 2005)

man, manila's slum is huge!


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

When it was still up, The Kowloon Walled City was the "Slum of all slums"

If you watched the movie Bloodsport, the kumite matches happened inside the yamen.

*"Once you've stepped inside of the narrow corridors, it's time to protect your nuts guys!" - Lin, Bloodsport*


















The early times


















inside









heroin









The Walled City today, The buildings have been demolished and is now a park


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

The Chicago ones... Candyman was made there, isn't it?

Hong Kong looks sooooooooooo great! Not for the people who live there, but it has something romantic on it, like the old London slums


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Candyman was set in Cabrini Green but from what I know is the place is being demolished because of the high real estate property near the downtown.

Anyway, more photos of the Kowloon Walled City. The place was called Hak Nam, City Of Darkness.













































On demolition









A book about life in the Walled City

Not really a slum but check out The Chungking Mansions


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## YelloPerilo (Oct 17, 2003)

^^^

BTW its spelled Hag Lam (Dark or Black Forest)

The movie Chunking Express by Wong Karwai (Chongqing Shenlin actually means Chongqing Forest) was partly filmed in this building. Great movie


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Chinese to English spelling varies just like Gung-Fu, Kung-Fu. Slum or not but there is something mysterious about these buildings


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## maxxam80 (Apr 6, 2003)

I have been inside chungking masions last year

the lifts are very scary to ride

there is blood all up the walls and no windows

the guestrooms are like prison cells

and just to think the Penisula is about 100m dwn the road


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

But I still think The Kowloon Walled City looks more mysterious and much worst compared to The Chung King Mansions.

What do you guys think? Do you think Chungking Mansions can be considered a slum or a ghetto?














































The Peninsula Hotel in Kowloon, right nearby


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## Klas (May 16, 2005)

*@all*

an intresting thread at all but some older posters here are right this thread lives ponly with actually photos /pictures of youre cities slums /housing areas /trailer parcs /ghettos and so on.... ; whats with them post more NEW pictures please ! what are the percentage of our cities population who lives in rundown /housing/ trailer or slum areas !? whats also with new facts about this Slum please! the UN said at example that the slum developpers worldwscapes europe) up to 2 billion (2 milliarde europe) in the next future ;whats with this prognose of the UN are you agree? questions over questions answears over answears please ;-) and more new picture PLEASE


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## raymond_tung88 (Mar 26, 2004)

The Chungking Mansions, although as gritty and run down as it looks, is historical and vital icon of Hong Kong. I feel as though demolishing the complex will add on to the Hong Kong government's list of buildings which have been unjustly demolished and replaced by newer, bland buildings.


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## Klas (May 16, 2005)

Klas said:


> an intresting thread at all but some older posters here are right this thread lives ponly with actually photos /pictures of youre cities slums /housing areas /trailer parcs /ghettos and so on.... ; whats with them post more NEW pictures please ! what are the percentage of our cities population who lives in rundown /housing/ trailer or slum areas !? whats also with new facts about this Slum please! the UN said at example that the slum developpers worldwscapes europe) up to 2 billion (2 milliarde europe) in the next future ;whats with this prognose of the UN are you agree? questions over questions answears over answears please ;-) and more new picture PLEASE


sorry my fault/ error : the UN said that the slum population worldwide will grow up from 1 billion developers worldwide yet ( 1 milliarde europe ) up to 2 billions worldwide !? what you think about this prognose of UNO are they realistic or not thanks and PLEASE only NEW photos of your cities slums and when they do not exist any more please no photos okay ?


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

I think it's the same thing about the Kowloon Walled City but the government demolished it!


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## Klas (May 16, 2005)

*@all*

more photos pls


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

Here some pics of my town - not nessecary of slums but of social decline: Needle Park Zurich (Platzspitz and Letten close to Main Station - on the "other side of Bahnhofstrasse") 10 years ago:


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## qt_bi (Sep 13, 2005)

rayman said:


> yeah and pls post slums of manila and jakarta, there are tons of them there



yeah its like a given fact, yeah in Bangkok too tons of AIDS infested slum areas, atleast slums in manila are educationally and physically better than Bangkok slums........... defensive ang potah! Ulol!


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

Just found this pic of Morumbi - must be Paraisopolis (the biggest favela of the city, but maybe some Paulistanos among you may know better:


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## Lastresorter (Nov 24, 2004)

baqthier said:


> Producer of Entrapment, Sean Connery wasn't happy that Kuala Lumpur has no slums. So he decided do a "facelift" by superimposing KL some nasty stuffs that looked bad, though not as demented as him.
> 
> Entrapment scene! OMG! Canal Tour in KL?!
> 
> ...


I believe that's a collage of Melaka River in Melaka + KLCC? I never watched Entrapment but I've heard how negatively it portrayed KL by "planting" a slum right next to the city... 

This is what Melaka River looks like:


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

I saw much worse slums (but smaller) in KL in the early 90s - but I think it's all cleaned away in the meantime. The Entrapment collage (it's not even a slum but just an old fishing village I think) is famous and a parody of itself


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## Lastresorter (Nov 24, 2004)

^^ Exactly... thats not a slum but a small historical village by the river bank. There are still small "kampungs" (villages) in KL but those are far from being slums, they were mainly squatters and I believe will be clean up by this year. Most squatters ppl were relocated to low cost housing projects. I agree that poor citizens need to live somewhere inexpensive but decent. This is an example of the low cost apartments in KL:


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## redstone (Nov 15, 2003)

Lastresorter said:


> ^^ Exactly... thats not a slum but a small historical village by the river bank. There are still small "kampungs" (villages) in KL but those are far from being slums, they were mainly squatters and I believe will be clean up by this year. Most squatters ppl were relocated to low cost housing projects. I agree that poor citizens need to live somewhere inexpensive but decent. This is an example of the low cost apartments in KL:


Yup. I perfectly agree. Kampungs are not neccessary slums.
Some have very long history.

Massive clearing of Singapore kampungs started in the 1970s.
Another huge phase started in the mid 1980s.
Yet another (slightly smaller) phase was in the mid 1990s, the clearing of Punggol's kampungs.

Some of these kampungs, like Kampung Punggol date way before the British colonisation of Singapore. Now they are all gone. 

There are still a few rural villages left in Singapore, but sadly they will be cleared one day. 
The Kampung is like the heritage of South East Asian housing.


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## ♣628.finst (Jul 29, 2005)

Pittsburgh... I wish to live that kind of slum--- they seems renovated, more attractive now... but that kind of originality arouse my memory of 70s North Dakota... Those wealthy farmers(They have to be lower-middle class, since in 80s I saw little of these huts survived) living in cute but ugly (slummy) huts... Then they demolished all of them with beautiful nice houses.

I love that Pittsburgh pic:


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## ♣628.finst (Jul 29, 2005)

Bond James Bond said:


> Even lots of white ppl back then were really poor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They're really cute slums... Especially the one in Kentucky.


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## didu (Jun 13, 2005)

Hong Kong:


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## szehoong (Sep 11, 2002)

George W. Bush said:


> Not so unique, Bangkok has several such communities. In fact one is located along the canal Khlong Saen Saep near Ratchaprasong which is Bangkok's prime commercial location. I can't remember its name right now (Baan Khlua?). I do not know anything much about it, but it must have been there long before this area became commercially important, because I doubt the inhabitants would have been able to afford the property prices . Judging from the pictures it looks pretty much like all the other traditional wood houses that are still quite abundant along Bangkok's main river and canals. Now to call these "traditional villages" slums is really a matter of definition. Their inhabitants may have modest incomes but in no case are these crime ridden socially disfunctional communities, and there is no lack of basic infrastructure. They are a legacy of the times when Bangkok still was the "capital village" of pre-industrial Siam.
> 
> Courtesy of the Thai forum:



Bangkok's might be similar to KL's Kampung Baru but KL's 'kampungs' are very well organised - just that they do not looked so nice from bird's eye view due to those hideous zinc roofing. Thus many interprete em as squatters or slums which they are not. Many inhabitants are well-to-do and they own at least 2-3 cars per household. Many have digital satellite dishes as well. 


Here's some satellite imageries of KL's famous Kampung Baru which is just like a few hundred metres from Petronas Twin Towers. Notice the grid arrangement....semething that even KL's CBD is lacking of!


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## szehoong (Sep 11, 2002)

Let's take a closer look:












Even closer....


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## Subangite (Sep 20, 2005)

from google earth, KG Bahru doesn't really look like slums at all, I guess they are one of the closest thing to KL slums. I read though there's a plan to redevelope the area. Gentrification anyone?


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

Cliff said:


> Does tokyo have any slums? I don't think so...


It has wooden shacks and some cages, where people live in. But they are not as many. And mostly inhabited by burakudin...


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## Klas (May 16, 2005)

*@all*

more pics pls. of your cities run down /worst or slum areas !!!!!and please only! new photos not some from the 80 ties or 90 ties


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## Jules (Jun 27, 2004)

Hood:


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## ♣628.finst (Jul 29, 2005)

Xäntårx said:


> I love that Pittsburgh pic:


Are they really slums? If they are really slums, then Canada&US have a lot of these right now, in some worst smaller city, not just in Chicago, LA, SF, the South, Philly or NYC.


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## Steel Flame (Jan 21, 2006)

A webpage showing some Detroit slums

http://community.webshots.com/myphotos?action=viewAllPhotos&albumID=163808567&security=JBeEGX


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## redstone (Nov 15, 2003)

Not all dirty buildings are slums.


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## F-ian (Oct 29, 2005)

redstone said:


> Singapore HAD slums.
> 
> Now many of them are conserved and re-adapted into anything from hotels to offices.



not all are Re-adapted into anyting from Hotels to Offices


These Pics taken a Week ago in Singapore:

I like this Building Tho to me it looks cool





the Land in Front is on Sale


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## DELCROID (Apr 9, 2006)

VIDEO OF CARACAS' SLUMS (29:00 APROX.):

http://www.ccnmtl.columbia.edu/draft/jfrankfurt/d_urbana.ram


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## Æsahættr (Jul 9, 2004)

Manila:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=manila&t=k&om=1&ll=14.46856,120.964376&spn=0.003818,0.00677

People have taken up residence inside the interchange loops there:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=manila&t=k&om=1&ll=14.862744,120.858879&spn=0.007622,0.01354


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## datilguy (Jan 18, 2006)

I dont know about the definition of "slum" in America. However, I have personally seen and witnessed 6 santytowns in America. These rank right along with the worst favelas in Brazil, Nairobi etc......with the exception of ones built on refuse dumps. I also have a right to speak of them because I used to live in one.


There is a shantytown in Odessa, TX called "Little Mexico" which has nothing to do with race seeing as a quarter of the population is non-hispanic, but it is known that because of the living conditions there. At the high-point, it housed about 5,00 people..in the 80's. Now, only around 700 people live there, but its still there. Also, because of pride, it is VERY well hidden, and one has to look very hard to find it. Its on the south-west side of the city, technically outside city limits. In most respects, it is virtually undestinguishable from a shantytown in Mexico. A majority of the houses there are built with wooden pallets, galvanized tin and blue tarps. It originally sprang up after the horrific emplyment loss founded after the oil bust. I havent been back there in about 8 years, so I currently not aware of the status. Many areas on the extreme south side of Odessa look (from a distance) like shantytowns....however, looks can be decieving and really...its just a combination of older-building and dumpyards. 

I have seen fullblown shantytowns on many Indian Reservations in the southwest. The most notable ones are the ones outside of Chinle, Ganado, Pine Hill, Mcartys and Tohatchi. However, these can be disputed as cultural differences. Though about 50% are shacks and shanties...the other 50% are either mobile homes or traditional hogans (on the Navajo) so many of the "shanties" can be attributed to family-related squatter or perhaps impromptu shelters.

Also, I have been to 2 more shantytowns in other locations accross America. 

The shantytown is still alive here in the US. People with dirt-floors, tar-paper walls and tin roofs. However, these are extremely well hidden, and rather miniscule in size compared to those in developing countries. Also a thing to keep in mind is the rpidly fluctuating population of these shantytowns. For example, Los Dalies de Tome in the Rio Grande Valley may have 5,000 people for a few years, but..6 weeks down the road, the population may dwindle depending on the economic situation of its inhabitants.


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## parisuite (Apr 14, 2006)

Very interesting thread..I love looking at slums. =P
Makes me appreciate what I have even more..


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## achineseinchina (Dec 18, 2005)

very impressive


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## schmidt (Dec 5, 2002)

I don't think slums are something to be proud of. Slums are something to *get rid* of.


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## LordMandeep (Apr 10, 2006)

i remember when i was young going through this vast slum in LA.

Every city has poor parts.

Toronto had real slums in the great depression and in the early 1900's.

The city looked like a ghetto till in the 60's, then its been looking much better.

There are a quite a few commieblocks. I wouldn't call anywhere in Toronto a slum, but there are some ghettos, but there are not big areas and really i visted most and they aren't really that bad.


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## schmidt (Dec 5, 2002)

^^ I went to somewhere in western Toronto, in some used clothes store to buy a pair of skiing pants. One of the ugliest places I've ever seen. I can't remind the name of the subway station right now.


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## ryanr (Sep 11, 2002)

lotrfan55345 said:


> Manila:
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=manila&t=k&om=1&ll=14.46856,120.964376&spn=0.003818,0.00677
> 
> People have taken up residence inside the interchange loops there:
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=manila&t=k&om=1&ll=14.862744,120.858879&spn=0.007622,0.01354


I dont think the second link shows slums. They are just simple rural/village housing.

Here's a photo i took from a plane of the first link you posted: (slums in the foreground by the highway)


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## Klas (May 16, 2005)

*what with actuell slumpictures*

^^^^


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## lumpia (Apr 10, 2004)

^^^^What??


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## Furiine (Jul 7, 2004)

A picture of Philadelphia I took in 2007, only a couple blocks from the skyscrapers. Every single house is boarded up or simply forgotten.









Another of Philadelphia, from March 2005


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## jaylichtman (Mar 1, 2007)

I'm not sure if I would call these slums, but here is a picture of some extremely dense (and brightly colored) housing next to the Jama Masjid in Delhi:


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## Karakuri (Dec 5, 2006)

Poska said:


> Some Paris "slums"


Are you joking? Do you know what a slum is? All those blocks you showed have running water, electricity, elevators, heating...people pay a rent (even if as these are public housing projects rents are realy realy low)!


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

Some misc USA slums from the air.

These don't include any public housing projects.

South Bronx









Brooklyn (Bedford-Stuyvesant)









Cleveland









Detroit.









Newark









Another St Louis


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

And some aerials of "slums" in Miami.

The blue roof things are tarpolins placed atop roofs over damage from a recent hurricane.

Allapattah









Glenwood Heights









Liberty City









Little Haiti


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## Dhakaiya (Jul 26, 2006)

75% slums in Dhaka have been recently evicted.....a few slums will remain until the rehousing process is complete.


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## zachus22 (Dec 4, 2006)

Thank you Bond for posting those pictures! I'm absolutely fascinated / astonished at how vibrant and alive the Eastside (?) of Manhattan used to be, at the peak of Italian immigration.

It's really sad to see how such an upbeat, thriving community can just plummet to hell with a 'mere' demographic shift. If only it were possible to sustain once-healthy communities forever, the NY's and LA's of the world would be much nicer to drive through.

And, I'm sick of hearing people talk about white slums and black slums. The fact is, it's not even about race anymore. It may have been at one point, but it's just not the case in this day and age. I think it's obvious most big-city American ghettos are comprised mainly of blacks and hispanics, and that most Brazilian slums possess more black people than Canada has altogether, but I can't stand it when people attach an ethnicity to a city's ghetto.

Don't really know where I'm going with this, but thanks for hearing me out


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## Anymodal (Mar 5, 2005)

This thread is fantastic, thank you all for your pictures.

The worst slums in Canada probably are within Indian reserves in Northern Ontario or Yukon. BC has some nasty reserves too, they kind of remind me of some of Bond James Bond's amazing photos. It's a shame most people don't ever see them or even know they exist...

When I was in South America the most shocking country in terms of slums was def. Brazil. I don't know if there is more poverty, but the slums are right there, you see them from the highway in the suburbs and in Rio they're in the mountains sort of right on top of you, everywhere you turn. When I was in Chile and Argentina I rarely saw any slums, but that doesn't mean there isn't any, it means they are well hidden (not necessarily good). Those pictures of Buenos Aires commie blocks aren't at all representative of the poorest of the poor. They're more like the posh areas of the poor hoods


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## Ian (Nov 26, 2006)

Anymodal said:


> This thread is fantastic, thank you all for your pictures.
> 
> The worst slums in Canada probably are within Indian reserves in Northern Ontario or Yukon. BC has some nasty reserves too, they kind of remind me of some of Bond James Bond's amazing photos. It's a shame most people don't ever see them or even know they exist...
> 
> When I was in South America the most shocking country in terms of slums was def. Brazil. I don't know if there is more poverty, but the slums are right there, you see them from the highway in the suburbs and in Rio they're in the mountains sort of right on top of you, everywhere you turn. When I was in Chile and Argentina I rarely saw any slums, but that doesn't mean there isn't any, it means they are well hidden (not necessarily good). *Those pictures of Buenos Aires commie blocks aren't at all representative of the poorest of the poor. They're more like the posh areas of the poor hoods *


Exactly!!!; the people living in those commieblocks are very poor, but they live a little better than other parts of that neighbourhood in Buenos aires.


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

This thread still extists as it seems... thanks for revitalization. Here a pic of one of my favourits: Rocinha - not exactly a "slum", but a sqauttering (favela), that became a city within the city with all its organization (pop 75-300'000, no one really knows ):


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

^
I'm convinced that a lot of those hillside favelas would actually look cool if they painted them all-white. It would look like a Greek village!


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## coolink (Apr 20, 2005)

this thread is interesting

but yeah i don't understand why the authority in Brazil don't crack down the slumps there......it's not;s just architecturally speaking but the crime rate in those slumps are pretty high.
demolish everything and build decent apartment or housing blocks....i think Brazil is not that poor a country. or they want to keep the slumps for the tourism industry?


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

But no other Latin American country builds more social housing than Brazil!


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

The problem is not that Brazil is poor but the horrible extreme Gini-coefficient. I think it's worldwide the third worst country in wealth distribution! What they need is finally a communist revolution. But it never will happen because the catholic church tells the poor it's God given that they have to live like that and the Evangelists take the last Real out of the pocket of the poorest hno:


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

Kuesel said:


> The problem is not that Brazil is poor but the horrible extreme Gini-coefficient. I think it's worldwide the third worst country in wealth distribution! What they need is finally a communist revolution. But it never will happen because the catholic church tells the poor it's God given that they have to live like that and the Evangelists take the last Real out of the pocket of the poorest hno:



The worst crap you have ever written! And when you show Rocinha, how about showing images of Cingapura and Parque do Gato (which was fromerly favela do Gato).
And nope, not the third worst, there are about 20 countries worse! hno: 
Turkey and Romania are getting much closer to that also!


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

Parque do Gato

http://www.revistaprisma.com.br/habitacao/habitacao_13.html


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

Cingapura Project


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

This building is being sanitated for the "Morar no Centro" project


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

Hey, this thread is for showing slums, not nice and new stuff.


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

*Artur Alvim social housing project*


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

*The Biggest Favela of Sao Paulo*

will become a sanitated neighbourhood, favela Heliópolis:
http://portal.prefeitura.sp.gov.br/noticias/empresas_autarquias/cohab/2006/01/0003 :banana: :cheers:


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

*Morar no Centro Aerial pic*








It should once be a hotel, now it is becoming space for poor people who now get the chance for decent housing downtown.


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

Example from Curitiba


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

You know exactly that I know the Cingapura and Parque do Gato projects and their history. Because of the communist revolution I was just provoking but that was obvious. The Gini coefficent IS unfortunatly one of the worst in the world, it's hard to deny. At least it's not at the end anymore... and about the religious topics: that's what a LOT of people told me in Brazil and I experienced myself. I really don't know what is so wrong with that statement apart from a little provokation :cheers:

BTW: some projects also went wrong as in France - for example the Cohab in Carapicuiba.... but that city anyway lost the connection while all the other ones around are booming  At least they try to enforce some park projects.


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## Gutovsky (Aug 11, 2006)

The São Paulo Cingapura housing projects never solved any problem, they were mere façades to hide back slums. I don't know of any of them that really replaced a favela.
On the other hand, the Parque do Gato was created to solve a particular problem: a slum formed on the side of a river (Tamanduateí) which was very visible to a hotel right across the Tietê river; nevertheless, it's now a decent place for very poor people to live, the buildings are still quite nice.
I think other projects under way are much nicer, such as the Favela Pantanal project. It's a huge area that is now being sanitated, there are brand new school and water treatment plant in it, plus full accessibility to the city. It won't totally erradicate the slums, but will enormously reduce it.
Oh, and by the way, I happen to have a very good source: I'm a local! 

I have an OBJECTIVE question for any locals: How did Seoul and Bangkok solve the slums projects? Simply by building houses? And if so, are there neighboring cities with slums? I hope not, because then it would have been simply a relocation of the problem.


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## Azia (Nov 18, 2007)

*any slums in Manila*

are there any Slums in Manila yet ? pictures please?!


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

Some of the Cingapuras are already surrounded by shacks of wood again. And many aof the social housing buildings are very decadent after just some years!


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

I'm going to bump up this classic thread! Was reading this thread and was reminded of it.


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/evilpandagirl/slum3.jpg









http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e302/mariboe/Kenya14JanSlummen7.jpg









http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/emmaaronson/IMGP2189.jpg


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## lak (Dec 22, 2008)

Madrid Spain, not a slum but a neighborhhod with hight concentration of poverty

http://urbancidades.files.wordpress...de-viana_diciembre-2007_small.jpg?w=400&h=309
http://urbancidades.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/5casa-de-corredor_tetuan_2001_small.jpg

Harlem

http://www.uta.fi/~mn68362/pics/harlem.JPG


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## lak (Dec 22, 2008)

Caracas, Venezuela


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## DanteXavier (Jan 6, 2007)

Interesting thread, surprised that I missed it earlier.


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

Its a interesting thread indeed...


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## lak (Dec 22, 2008)

Tepito, Mexico city


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## elbart089 (Nov 18, 2007)

Tepito is not a slum, it's the worst neighborhood of Mexico City, but those color blankets are actually are a "market", people are selling goods down there, not living there, at night the blankets get removed and you can see the street again. lol


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## Occit (Jul 24, 2005)

This kind of threads seems to be only for brazilians...


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## lak (Dec 22, 2008)

Why?, Brazil is the Only country in the world with slums?, didn't you see the Caracas slums which btw is also my hometown?..


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## Wey (Jul 8, 2008)

Occit said:


> This kind of threads seems to be only for brazilians...


¬¬

I'm not anwering that... I promised to start the year peacefully.


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