# Electric Car technology



## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

> *http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/15/business/15electric.html?hpw*
> 
> *Cities Prepare for Life With the Electric Car *
> 
> ...



..


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## yin_yang (May 29, 2006)

maybe trey will upgrade to electric for 2010 summer tour...


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## el palmesano (May 27, 2006)

The future: electric car with exchangable battery


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## el palmesano (May 27, 2006)

Better Place Battery Swap Demonstration


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## el palmesano (May 27, 2006)

Renault - Quickdrop / Battery switch


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## el palmesano (May 27, 2006)

Electric car fast charge


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## el palmesano (May 27, 2006)

*Electric engine, how does it work ?*


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## el palmesano (May 27, 2006)

Battery Exchange


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## el palmesano (May 27, 2006)

Project Better Place Video


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Standardization of charging points, power plugs/sockets and payment systems should be the highest priority right now. 

Electric cars are interesting for short drives, such as commuting. However, for long distance traffic, the range is too limited, charging times way too long and battery swapping still a futuristic step. Electric cars of the near future will likely be fitted with a gasoline or diesel propulsion as well to take over on long trips. 

The ultimate electric car would be one that is self-sufficient, i.e. it can provides it's own energy without having to charge or swap batteries. This would give unlimited range. But that's really a thing of the far future.


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## el palmesano (May 27, 2006)

Unlimited Range Electric Car


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## el palmesano (May 27, 2006)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Standardization of charging points, power plugs/sockets and payment systems should be the highest priority right now.
> 
> Electric cars are interesting for short drives, such as commuting. However, for long distance traffic, the range is too limited, charging times way too long and battery swapping still a futuristic step. Electric cars of the near future will likely be fitted with a gasoline or diesel propulsion as well to take over on long trips.
> 
> The ultimate electric car would be one that is self-sufficient, i.e. it can provides it's own energy without having to charge or swap batteries. This would give unlimited range. But that's really a thing of the far future.


please, watch the videos, becouse that isn't true, is possible to change the battery, is like a gasoline car, you need more gasoline, so with a electric car you need more energy, so you must change de battery and there's no problem


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## Capt.Vimes (Jul 15, 2009)

el palmesano said:


> Unlimited Range Electric Car


Soooo. I come to that station and have like 20 % of battery life left, but i need to recgarge, because on my way there is no other recharging station that i can reach. Do i pay for the whole charge of the battery, like 100%, or just the 80% i am missing, as i would on my normal car right now?

What would be the range of my electric car if it should have the same torgue as a Passat 1.9 TDi 131 bhp? I need that torque not to race anyone, but to safely overtake trucks.


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

> http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-0216-charging-stations-20110216,0,4310432.story
> 
> *Electric vehicles hit plug-in problem
> Competing technologies mean not all vehicles will be able to use the fastest charging method*
> ...


...


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

delete


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## diablo234 (Aug 18, 2008)




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## diablo234 (Aug 18, 2008)

More electric car charging stations being built.



> *NRG to start network of electric car charging stations in Houston*
> 
> By ELIZABETH SOUDER / The Dallas Morning News [email protected]
> Published 19 November 2010 10:32 AM
> ...


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## Atmosphere (Mar 15, 2009)

el palmesano said:


> please, watch the videos, becouse that isn't true, is possible to change the battery, is like a gasoline car, you need more gasoline, so with a electric car you need more energy, so you must change de battery and there's no problem


It IS a problem because battery replacement stations are expensive and they need a lot of room. While recharging stations can be fitted everywhere. You will also need a special infrastructure for making sure that every station has enough batteries to replace because people do not always use the same station so some will get a lot of batteries while other stations are losing ones.


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## Highwaycrazy (Oct 2, 2009)

Atmosphere said:


> It IS a problem because battery replacement stations are expensive and they need a lot of room. While recharging stations can be fitted everywhere. You will also need a special infrastructure for making sure that every station has enough batteries to replace because people do not always use the same station so some will get a lot of batteries while other stations are losing ones.


Good point. Especially, the transportation costs because these batteries would be very heavy and commodity prices keep increasing too.


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## Stainless (Jun 7, 2009)

Atmosphere said:


> It IS a problem because battery replacement stations are expensive and they need a lot of room. While recharging stations can be fitted everywhere. You will also need a special infrastructure for making sure that every station has enough batteries to replace because people do not always use the same station so some will get a lot of batteries while other stations are losing ones.


Batteries would be swapped, so it would be one-in-one-out. The only problem would be if a station ran out of fully charged batteries, but that would change in a few hours anyway.


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

Atmosphere said:


> It IS a problem because battery replacement stations are expensive and they need a lot of room. While recharging stations can be fitted everywhere. You will also need a special infrastructure for making sure that every station has enough batteries to replace because people do not always use the same station so some will get a lot of batteries while other stations are losing ones.


Running out of used batteries would br like a gas stations running out of fuel. There will not be any "accumulation" of battery stockpiles as they will be recharged in the site. Only those that reach worn out status would have to be disposed, but that is a tiny, tiny fraction of any daily or weekly turnover.

A station just need to be dimensioned in a way it can recharge a sufficiently large # of batteries according to its demand.


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## khoojyh (Aug 14, 2005)

definately the future. strongly agree to produce more


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

> http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/automotive/sc-cons-0414-autocover-20110414,0,7716029.story
> 
> *It's a long road before plug-in vehicles reach mainstream*
> 
> ...


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## X236K (Mar 3, 2007)

EVs do not solve any of our energy supply problems. It is so obvious that I can't believe they are still being promoted... is that some kind of new religion?


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## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

X236K said:


> EVs do not solve any of our energy supply problems. It is so obvious that I can't believe they are still being promoted... is that some kind of new religion?


Of course it doesn't solve the energy supply problems and that's not really the point of EVs either. The point is that regular cars fully depend on oil-based fuels to power them whereas there are many different ways of producing electricity. EVs also improve air quality in cities where most of the people live.


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## Fuzzy Llama (Jan 24, 2009)

It doesn't solve but it does improve the situation dramatically. EV is about 3 times more energy efficient than a gasoline-powered car, and in addition it is quieter, does not pollute in the cities, cheaper and easier to maintain, and there is multitude of ways in which the energy for it can be produced for it.

Of course there is a lot of new problems with EV (the main is that the current generation of batteries is crap, and they depend on rare-earth minerals which are, well, rare), but combustion engine is a dead end, and it will drop out of mainstream in our lifetime.


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## X236K (Mar 3, 2007)

Fuzzy Llama said:


> It doesn't solve but it does improve the situation dramatically. *EV is about 3 times more energy efficient than a gasoline-powered car*, and in addition it is quieter, does not pollute in the cities, cheaper and easier to maintain, and there is multitude of ways in which the energy for it can be produced for it.
> 
> Of course there is a lot of new problems with EV (the main is that the current generation of batteries is crap, and they depend on rare-earth minerals which are, well, rare), but combustion engine is a dead end, and it will drop out of mainstream in our lifetime.


Where did you get the bold & red marked figure from?

Can you point out the other energy resources you are refering to? I'm not aware of any.

Why do you think the current generation of batteries is crap and why do you expect the "next gen" to be better? Our current battery technology is approaching the limits given by physics in term of energy density. Not mentioning the mining capacity and related environmental impacts.


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## Fuzzy Llama (Jan 24, 2009)

X236K said:


> Where did you get the bold & red marked figure from?


http://ec.europa.eu/transport/urban/vehicles/road/electric_en.htm
Electric engine can achieve up to 90% efficiency, internal combustion engine usually does not exceed 25%.



X236K said:


> Can you point out the other energy resources you are refering to? I'm not aware of any.


You might have misunderstood me, I've just pointed out that while gasoline (or Diesel oil, or LPG) can be efficiently produced only from fossil fuels, there are a lot of options for electricity production - ranging from renewable sources, through fossil fuels (and remember that some of those can't be used for gasoline production, such as brown coal) to the nuclear energy (which is very efficient and rather clean). Depending on region suitable solution can be used (for example countries like Iceland or Norway can power all their vehicles using renewable sources, others can use nuclear energy). 

Of course the switch from internal combustion car to EV will require countries to increase electricity production, but since it will be a gradual change it won't pose a great problem.



X236K said:


> Why do you think the current generation of batteries is crap and why do you expect the "next gen" to be better? Our current battery technology is approaching the limits given by physics in term of energy density. Not mentioning the mining capacity and related environmental impacts.


Li-Ion and Zinc-something batteries used in today's EVs can't power the vehicle long enough (nor be recharged fast enough) on a long-distance trips, and until this problem will be fixed an EV won't be used in the mainstream - i.e. as the only car in the family.
There are some developments in this field but I don't really know the details (although I really hope for the breaktrough). Can you provide some sources stating that it isn't physically possible to produce batteries with greater energy density?


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## mgk920 (Apr 21, 2007)

I don't know, I just don't see straight battery-electric cars doing any better in the market today than they did over a century ago - and for the very same reasons (range, turnaround time on refueling, driver/passenger comfort, availability of electricity to recharge, etc) - regardless of however much scarce to non-existent public treasure is poured into them in subsidies.

:no:

Mike


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## ed110220 (Nov 12, 2008)

mgk920 said:


> I don't know, I just don't see straight battery-electric cars doing any better in the market today than they did over a century ago - and for the very same reasons (range, turnaround time on refueling, driver/passenger comfort, availability of electricity to recharge, etc) - regardless of however much scarce to non-existent public treasure is poured into them in subsidies.
> 
> :no:
> 
> Mike


I think it will depend a lot on the price of fuel. Given cheap fuel, electric cars will never be attractive, but with fuel getting more and more expensive this may change.


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

http://www.hostedfile.com/videos/5734/simpsons-electric-car.html
A nice video about electric cars :lol:


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

> http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-gas-prices-electric-cars,0,4138419.story
> 
> *High gas prices can be difference for electric cars*
> 
> ...


...


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## diablo234 (Aug 18, 2008)

mgk920 said:


> I don't know, I just don't see straight battery-electric cars doing any better in the market today than they did over a century ago - and for the very same reasons (range, turnaround time on refueling, driver/passenger comfort, availability of electricity to recharge, etc) - regardless of however much scarce to non-existent public treasure is poured into them in subsidies.
> 
> :no:
> 
> Mike


The average commuting distance in the US is 29 miles, in which a roundtrip commute is well within range of most current electric cars, and in addition in advances to car batteries themselves that distance is expected to increase. Already there is an electric car that drove 375 miles from Southern Germany to Berlin on electric power alone without recharging the battery.

German electric car sets world record

Keep in mind that most people do not use their cars for inter-city trips or if they do it's very rare that people use their car to travel any more than 35 miles out from home.


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

> http://www.economist.com/node/18437910
> 
> *Battery technology*
> 
> ...


..

*More in link*


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

> http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2011/flow-batteries-0606.html
> 
> *New battery design could give electric vehicles a jolt*
> 
> ...


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## SamuraiBlue (Apr 2, 2010)

Battery powered electric cars are merely stop gaps for highly anticipated fuel cell powered electric cars.
Batteries are too bulky and contains toxic/hazardous material for it to be placed in an accident prone environment. 

On the other hand there is a possibility that many car manufacturers may go out of business when switching to electric cars since the strong point of car manufacturers was their knowledge and experience in the internal combustion engine. 
With electric cars the electric motor comes into center stage with various other companies that have more expertise in developing and manufacturing them.
Heavy drive shafts and central gear box may also become obsolete with multiple motors connecting to each wheel or even a more radical concept of turning the wheel into a motor itself.
Brakes for these machines will change as well with regenerative magnetic brakes instead of the conventional brake pads.


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## lime light power (Mar 31, 2011)

Not sure if I agree on the fuel cell thing...

Most manufacturers and oil companies seem to be pushing for an easier transition - with a hybrid combination of electric (with battery) and then biofuel, mostly promisingly from algae. Whatever can be standardized and can "fit" most easily into existing usage business models will be the technology pushed by corporations.

I just don't see it happening (right now) with fuel cells.


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

> http://www.chicagotribune.com/busin...rning-to-pedestrians-20110707,0,7531556.story
> 
> *Electric, hybrid cars to sound warning to pedestrians*
> 
> ...


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

> http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jul/10/electric-cars-take-over-roads
> 
> *Will electric cars ever take over our roads?*
> 
> ...


...


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## Tincap (May 23, 2010)

Rebasepoiss said:


> Of course it doesn't solve the energy supply problems and that's not really the point of EVs either. The point is that regular cars fully depend on oil-based fuels to power them whereas there are many different ways of producing electricity. *EVs also improve air quality in cities **where most of the people live.*


EVs just move the problem elsewhere. You've got to plug the things in and where does that power come from? Hydro power projects cause permanent damage to their surroundings. Solar and wind farms, although capable of being a supplemental source of energy, can never meet the primary energy needs required and also, cause permanent environmental damage to their surroundings. Nuclear power plants can be problematic...to say the least (it's still not over in Japan).And then there is coal. Lets not forget that power plants are the biggest polluters and emitters of CO2 in general, not cars. If we move to EVs, we will have to make _greater use of all_ of the above sources. Remove one source and our needs can not be met. 

Although I very much like the idea of hybrids, full on EVs are not the answer. 

~BG


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## Mr_Dru (Dec 15, 2008)

In november Schiphol Amsterdam has inaugurated a new fleet of 167 Tesla Model S taxis, giving it the largest fleet of all-electric taxis of any airport in the world. 
The cabs will be operated by two taxi companies.


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## mcarling (Nov 1, 2008)

Ingenioren said:


> You can go on long trips in a Model S, just need to take a 30 min break every 300km.


It takes only 90 seconds for a battery swap and the range is 300 miles, not 300 kilometers.


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## TrojaA (Dec 4, 2014)

I really like the Tesla Model S apart from its huge Touchscreen. (I'm no friend of it and e.g. BMW's iDrive is much better to use while driving). The thing is that the Model S isn't very cheap, but on the other hand that wasn’t the plan of Tesla.

In general it’s a “problem” that electric vehicles don’t save money over the entire term (not uncommonly it's more expensive), because the money you save through using less taxed electricity, you spend extra on the battery when buying the car. So you place energy costs (fuel) on hold and pay off them during the use. If you bought an EV, then you would pay much of these costs just as you would purchase the car. So at the moment I’d say that electric cars aren’t often affordable for the majority of people who travel 10km to 50km to work. (And there a much of these people who often don’t buy new cars or very cheap one)

The range isn’t really a problem if you have two vehicles (e.g. families often have two), so one could be used for commuting to work and the other one for longer trips. Refueling a Tesla isn't a very time-robbing thing when using a supercharger, so 80% of the battery power within the first 40-minutes seems to be okay, if you have to do this once, but if your trip takes 2 or 3 of these charges.. nope that’s no fun. ;-) The problem is, even with the Tesla you don’t do at Richtgeschwindigkeit (130km/h) hardly more than 250km (lowlands). Some may reach 300km with a full battery, but that’s the maximum. Here it’s a problem of the physics also a normal car usually consumes much fuel above 130km/h and the worst thing is to break and accelerate. Acceleration from 0 to 70km/h uses as much fuel as 100km/h to 120km/h. Although breaking doesn’t hurt so much with an electric vehicle, acceleration still does.
Battery swapping always sounds so nice, but I don’t think that there are high chances we’ll ever see this. There are high infrastructure costs and just a handful of different battery assemblies would be possible. Doesn’t seem very likely to me, but I take pot lock.

Ah btw, as I said electricity is less taxed and I assume that once the electric cars spread widely, there will be a high tax on your electricity you’re using for the car. (And it could be that you have to pay general and get your money back with the tax declaration if you didn’t use so much energy for your electric vehicle)

All in all I would say we’ll see whether the electric car will be successful or not. Decisive for me is a higher battery capacity, because I do job-related trips more than 700km long, commute to work 125km one direction etc. and even my petrol/gasoline-driven car reaches with a 62l fuel tank ~760km when driving only on motorways, so currently my driving profile doesn’t match the profile of EVs. But I have an open mind about any new technology.


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## Kanadzie (Jan 3, 2014)

for those people with large networks of trolley-bus, why not put the springs/pantograph on your car roof to use the electricity for free 

You can keep small battery or gas engine to drive up to the lines, then run on electricity when in the convenient routes


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## mcarling (Nov 1, 2008)

^^
Just don't get caught by the police.


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## Kanadzie (Jan 3, 2014)

is there a specific law against it? It is just a decoration that happened to touch the wires. City should be ashamed to have such things, people could get hurt


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## mcarling (Nov 1, 2008)

^^
Taking electricity from the public infrastructure and not paying for it is illegal in virtually every jurisdiction on the planet. The police and courts would see it as equivalent to unauthorized tapping into the power distribution lines.


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## MarcVD (Dec 1, 2008)

Kanadzie said:


> for those people with large networks of trolley-bus, why not put the springs/pantograph on your car roof to use the electricity for free
> 
> You can keep small battery or gas engine to drive up to the lines, then run on electricity when in the convenient routes


600-750 Volts... You'd need some serious insulation. DC current, too; so
a simple transformer won't do, you'd need a chopper. Also, it's not that 
extensive, the longest trolleybus line in the world is Simferopol-Yalta in 
Crimea, 86 km. But it's true that in the eastern block, there are some utility
vehicles equipped with poles.


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