# Most cookie-cutter city



## castermaild55 (Sep 8, 2005)

it seems so beautiful from sky
however, it might be easy to imagine without seeing if you see one part of them. The high-rise apartment building complex might be so. 
so might be old western city?

on the other hand, Tokyo might be chaos. ..

































what do you think?


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## ChitownCity (May 11, 2010)

That 2nd pic definitely takes the cake, which city is that??


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## dark_shadow1 (May 24, 2009)

Barcelona.


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## Ribarca (Jan 28, 2005)

dark_shadow1 said:


> Barcelona.


Yep. That's the Eixample. The 19th century city enlargement after the city was finally allowed (by Madrid) to tear down its city walls and expand.

Amsterdam's canal area is amazingly planned as well. In the middle you can see the more chaotic old town surrounded by well planned canals from the city expansion (17th century).


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## Luli Pop (Jun 14, 2010)

Ribarca said:


> Yep. That's the Eixample. The 19th century city enlargement after the city was finally allowed (by Madrid) to tear down its city walls and expand.


it's been more than a hundred years and still crying???



anyways, I think nobody matches HK with its cookie cutter skyscrapers, and US and UK suburbs with its coockie cutter homes!


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## Chainedwolf (Feb 27, 2010)

Uhm, American Suburbs? (and some mexican ones modelled after them)


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## Ribarca (Jan 28, 2005)

Luli Pop said:


> it's been more than a hundred years and still crying???
> 
> 
> 
> anyways, I think nobody matches HK with its cookie cutter skyscrapers, and US and UK suburbs with its coockie cutter homes!


Such a sad character you are. It's obviously relevant as it explains why Barcelona could not grow organically... Anyway the last time I have a discussion with you. On the ignore list you go:cheers:.


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## Concrete Stereo (May 21, 2005)

Luli Pop said:


> anyways, I think nobody matches HK with its cookie cutter skyscrapers, and US and UK suburbs with its coockie cutter homes!


Hate to burst the bubble, but US is very much matched with cookie cutter suburbia.

And the Netherlands/UK with row-houses, surely.


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## Phriggin' Ogre (Aug 3, 2003)

Damn, looks like you can get easily lost in Barcelona.


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## desertpunk (Oct 12, 2009)

US suburbs, obviously. And don't forget all those new towns in China which have that cookie cutter look goin' on.


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## Saigoneseguy (Mar 6, 2005)

Definitely Chinese cities with their low rise apartments built from the 1970s.


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## Concrete Stereo (May 21, 2005)

Phriggin' Ogre said:


> Damn, looks like you can get easily lost in Barcelona.


the Eixample is sort of generic yes, also in architecture (...speculation...). Mostly outspokenly ugly even. It's the villages and cities inside the city that have the charm, and the diagonal and the old roads connecting them.

Easy to navigate though - uphill is away from the sea, downhill is towards the sea


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

Barcelona is amazing


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

the modern version, Athens:


Athens:

SCROLL>>>>









old pic, the buildings are white now after the Olympic makeover:









www.soest.hawaii.edu









www.airphotos.gr









www.airphotos.gr









neorion










satellite:










close-up of the 'small' peninsular at bottom:


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

more Athens, the sea of 5-12 storey blocks, population 5 million, at one time with the 3rd most densely populated areas in the world:


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

Hong Kong


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## Dimethyltryptamine (Aug 22, 2009)

Las Vegas is pretty bad









dmtgc flickr


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## Ribarca (Jan 28, 2005)

Concrete Stereo said:


> the Eixample is sort of generic yes, also in architecture (...speculation...). Mostly outspokenly ugly even. It's the villages and cities inside the city that have the charm, and the diagonal and the old roads connecting them.
> 
> Easy to navigate though - uphill is away from the sea, downhill is towards the sea


There are hundreds of modernista masterpieces.

Athens is just crazy from above!


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## ChitownCity (May 11, 2010)

Oh My Fukin God!!! Athens just looks plain rediculous!!!...


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## Ramses (Jun 17, 2005)

What does the term cookie-cutter city mean? :dunno: 
I cannot find it on wikipedia, so can anyone explain it?


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## Dimethyltryptamine (Aug 22, 2009)

Ramses said:


> What does the term cookie-cutter city mean? :dunno:
> I cannot find it on wikipedia, so can anyone explain it?


When you use a cookie-cutter, you generally end up with a bunch of cookies all looking the same. When the term is used in reference to suburbs or estates, it just means that all the houses look the same (that's how I interpret it anyway :lol









http://www.flickr.com/photos/outlawyr/454715295/sizes/l/in/photostream/

Like so


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## potiz81 (Aug 9, 2005)

Athens' center looks chaotic from tha air...




















































































































But, talking about the city center, even it looks like concrete-jungle from the air, the surprise for the visitors is that it is really lovely when it comes to street level:


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## Orsino05 (Aug 21, 2007)

that's Barcelona / Spain


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## ReiAyanami (May 14, 2008)

Most of the buildings in the center have received face lift after 2004 and the city looks decent enough from the hills nowdays. Plus there is more green than it looks like.


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## guille_89uy (Jan 14, 2008)

Concrete Stereo said:


> the Eixample is sort of generic yes, also in architecture (...speculation...). Mostly outspokenly ugly even. It's the villages and cities inside the city that have the charm, and the diagonal and the old roads connecting them.
> 
> Easy to navigate though - uphill is away from the sea, downhill is towards the sea


What are you talking about? Do you know Eixample dret and a very important area of Eixample esquerre? That's not speculation darling, that's ART.


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## desertpunk (Oct 12, 2009)

Cookie cutter suburbs in North Phoenix









http://www.flickr.com/photos/docsearls/


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## Concrete Stereo (May 21, 2005)

definitely: Athens is the most generic city i've visited


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## Ramses (Jun 17, 2005)

Dimethyltryptamine said:


> When you use a cookie-cutter, you generally end up with a bunch of cookies all looking the same. When the term is used in reference to suburbs or estates, it just means that all the houses look the same (that's how I interpret it anyway :lol


So cookie-cutter cities are huge anonimous non-places. Places with no identities, places where you have no longer a name but where you are just a number, places where your presence has only minimal additional value for population statistics.

Now it makes sense to me. Thanks :cheers:


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## JmB & Co. (Jan 5, 2008)

I would say that cookie-cutter cities have a very strong identity. I like homogeneity, planning. These cities show a line, a style.


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

au contraire Athens looks _amazing_ from the air. I hope it somehow gets preserved like that, in a coupla hundred years it will be a treasured urban example form as equally 'homogenous' UNESCO World Heritage Sites such as Hausmannian Paris or medieval Fez.


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## [email protected] (Oct 1, 2008)

Miami's wetern suburbs look like an abstract painting from air. They also finish abruptly into the Everglades (see the left of the pic).


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## ReiAyanami (May 14, 2008)

A few more from the northern "suburb" of Athens, not that it has any real suburbs since city center density expands to the horizon, but anyway...

























Likavitos Hill










Views from Likavitos




























A group of people, which had too much time on their hands, made the entire city center of Athens 3D in google earth, 
among the few cities in GE that are like that. 
If you think your computer is good and you brave enough, go to GE and allow terrain and 3d buildings.
(It works in the updated free version)


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

levittown


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## minneapolis-uptown (Jun 22, 2009)

levittown is disgusting


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## Andre_idol (Aug 6, 2008)

I think Florida takes the lead...

There you go: http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/09/human_landscapes_in_sw_florida.html

:nuts:


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## ChitownCity (May 11, 2010)

^ Oh my god that is absolutely horrific!!! If I had an A-bomb that is exactly where I would drop it...


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

ChitownCity said:


> ^ Oh my god that is absolutely horrific!!! If I had an A-bomb that is exactly where I would drop it...


just take a look at cape coral and shit your pants while watching it on GE
I always get sad when you can still see that USA is building tons of these new neigbourhoods :bash:


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^^








http://www.directionhomeflorida.com/Cape Coral Aerial.jpg


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## eddeux (Jun 16, 2010)

joshsam said:


> just take a look at cape coral and shit your pants while watching it on GE
> I always get sad when you can still see that USA is building tons of these new neigbourhoods :bash:


florida is too beautiful for this sort of home building. With around 25 million people by 2020 I have no clue how this kind of urban sprawl can be sustained. I think the population needs to concentrated in select areas to limit sprawl so we don't end up using more uninhabited land. Florida needs just 3 megaregions to concentrate the population in (in my opinion): 
*South Florida *(including St. Lucie and Martin county too)
*Orlando-Jacksonville *
*Ft. Meyers-St.Petersburg-Tampa *

If growth was limited to these 3 regions florida would have cookie cutter cities w/ the density and height of present day Athens. :yes:


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## ChitownCity (May 11, 2010)

joshsam said:


> just take a look at cape coral and shit your pants while watching it on GE
> I always get sad when you can still see that USA is building tons of these new neigbourhoods :bash:


That's what I was refering to. And I agree completely, you would think that we would join the race with Asia for vertical sprawl by now...


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## Concrete Stereo (May 21, 2005)

Taller said:


> Of course I disagree. It is one of those blanket statements churned out by people who have probably never even been to North America, or Australia. There are plenty of places in Europe where the buildings are all quite similar, so why would that not constitute "cookie cutter" any more than North America? Are the Cotswolds in England "cookie cutter" because all of the cottages "look the same" ? Is Bath "cookie cutter" because all of the Georgian townhouses "look the same"? Of course not, because "cookie cutter" really is just an insult we like to use about areas other than our own cities.
> 
> I suppose this is not "cookie cutter" because it is European urban sprawl:
> 
> ...


untypically, this thread has been quite balanced until now.

It started off with Barcelona, Hongkong, Amsterdam and Athens


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## AMS guy (Jun 27, 2003)

To call the 17th-century canals area of Amsterdam a "cookie cutter city" is really weird. It suggests something boring or negative, while this city is unique 

But alright, you want your cookie cutter, so here we go:


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## The Cake On BBQ (May 10, 2010)

Taller said:


> Of course I disagree. It is one of those blanket statements churned out by people who have probably never even been to North America, or Australia. There are plenty of places in Europe where the buildings are all quite similar, so why would that not constitute "cookie cutter" any more than North America? Are the Cotswolds in England "cookie cutter" because all of the cottages "look the same" ? Is Bath "cookie cutter" because all of the Georgian townhouses "look the same"? Of course not, because "cookie cutter" really is just an insult we like to use about areas other than our own cities.
> 
> I suppose this is not "cookie cutter" because it is European urban sprawl:
> 
> ...


I didn't mention Asia or Europe because they've been already mentioned earlier in this thread.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Rev Stickleback said:


> And the truth is loads of Europeans would live in such developments too, if they could buy them in Europe for the same price.
> 
> I remember reading a book by a guy from Zimbabwe moving to England, who couldn't understand why people would choose to live in the tiny London terrace houses. It took him a while to work out that a house of the size he'd prefer, in London at least, was so far out of his price range that it was ridiculous.


Then just come and live here in Belgium where you can live the Belgian dream 
Cities lose inhab. and suburbs and suburban Towns gain inhab. in Belgium. Houses are not as big as in the USA because that would be impossible to pay unless you can pay a house of 1.000.000 euro. But most middel class live in three to four bedroom, freestanding houses.
Spatial planning sucks and toghetter with all the free standing housing, it feels like the whole country is develloped. There is no place you can go whitout seeing a house nearby, in Flanders at least, Wallonia is a diffirend story.

We can also provide you with the horor of strip malls and malls and miles of roads with large warehouses next to it.

Here is a tread on Suburbia in Belgium: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1157889

Example of a Belgian strip mall:









Example of a belgium mall:









How Belgian suburbs look like:




























For ground pictures: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1157889


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## eddeux (Jun 16, 2010)

^^ Not that bad, I suppose. Do most Belgian cities have good public transportation from suburbs into the city?


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## dleung (Mar 5, 2008)

I wouldn't consider Athens or Amsterdam or Barcelona "cookie cutter" just because their buildings look similar or are arranged rigidly. While there was the regulatory framework for repetitiveness, the populating of buildings happen in gradual accretion, and it is visually-evident through the subtle nuances between architectures of different eras.

The term "cookie cutter", however, suggests an element of speed by which identical buildings pop up quickly within one short period of time:


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## Ramses (Jun 17, 2005)

dleung said:


>


I guess that's the place where they invented depression :nuts:


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

èđđeůx;64979549 said:


> ^^ Not that bad, I suppose. Do most Belgian cities have good public transportation from suburbs into the city?


Most suburbs have bus connections. Some have train and bus or tram(lightrail) connections.
I think the bus connections in Belgian cities are good. Like in my little city (40.000 inhab) 12 buslines stop at the trainstation, connecting nearby villages, towns, cities. The longest line to another city is +-20km.

But you also have cities like Hasselt nearby (80.000) It forms the main crossing points of a lot of buslines around the region and trainlines that go from my region to other regions.

Train lines that stop in the trainstation:

ICE
Tongeren - Blankenberge (NMBS - trein) 


ICK
Hasselt - Gent-Sint-Pieters (NMBS - trein) 


IRc
Hasselt - Antwerpen-Centraal (NMBS - trein) 


IRc
Hasselt - Luik-Guillemins (NMBS - trein) 


IRe
Hasselt - Antwerpen-Centraal (NMBS - trein) 


L
Hasselt - Leuven (NMBS - trein) 


P
Genk - Brussel-Zuid (NMBS - trein) 


P
Hasselt - Antwerpen-Centraal (NMBS - trein) 

There are some 40 buslines that stop at the trainstation on 20 busperrons.Pretty nice for a city with only 80.000 inhab...


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## Luli Pop (Jun 14, 2010)

I totally agree with Dleung, many forumers confused cookie-cutter city with planified city.

Clearly Dleung's examples showed what a cookie-cutter city is.
Besides, I don't see the point for those houses to be dettached since they are almost attached. Spending more materials or just for a status impression?


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

On a rough guess, about two thirds of Great British towns.


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## Benonie (Dec 21, 2005)

joshsam said:


> Cities lose inhab. and suburbs and suburban Towns gain inhab. in Belgium.


Wrong.
That was correct untill ten years ago. Nowadays all cities are gaining inhabitants. Brussels came from 950.000 in the nineties and has passed 1.100.000 last year. Same thing in Ghent, Antwerp and smaller cities.
The expanding population, mostly by young immigrants and there growing families, is the main problem in the biggest cities (houses, schools, mobility...)
But you won't find 'coockie-cutter' cities here. Belgian cities grow 'organic' and rather chaotic.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^ I agree on the organic and chaotic cities, but last week there where new articles on "city flight" in the Belgian newspapers. Read the tread in Belgium forum. 
Platteland of stad?


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## scottyaks143 (Oct 11, 2010)

Wow it looks like a 3d scene.. Nice one..


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## ChitownCity (May 11, 2010)

Ramses said:


> I guess that's the place where they invented depression :nuts:


:lol::lol::lol:


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## ChitownCity (May 11, 2010)

....


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## Saigongirl (Jun 29, 2009)

What's the problem with the so-called "cookie cutter" urban planning?
I think Athens looks a lot like my hometown, Ho Chi Minh city (Saigon). Both look so messy and chaotic!
Similar houses in a row, with lots of greenery, are beautiful, don't you think?


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## ChitownCity (May 11, 2010)

^^ nothing's wrong with it as long as it's urban in my opinion. but when it's applied to single family homes then it becomes a problem. I love Athens, Barcelona, Amsterdam and all those other places. I would commit suicide if I were forced to live in south florida or any other generic suburb for the rest of my life...


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## dleung (Mar 5, 2008)

High-rise sprawl gives a better return on the land, but is equally coma-inducing. Think of numerous developments in HK and China with dozens of identical towers spaced 20 feet apart... or even some of the new stuff going up in North American suburbs.



Ramses said:


> dleung said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


The pictures are in Toronto, btw. This map shows how much of the cityscape looks like the above picture:

Faded Red denotes sprawl from 1985 - 1999
Red denotes sprawl from 1999 - 2006
Yellow is all new sprawl since 2006








The rest of the city's area is mostly single-family houses (abeit older and with trees), but the regions highlighted is exactly like the picture - treeless, dense, cookie-cutter sprawl.


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## Penguino (Sep 22, 2007)

vancouver looks cooki cutter








by DEE.GRAPHICDESIGN









by ckkelley at ssp









http://www.flickr.com/photos/rtrska/3410602461/[


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## Nouvellecosse (Jun 4, 2005)

I can see how someone would think the newer Vancouver condos are cookie cutter, but the last picture is of the office district and shows only office buildings that all have completely different designs. How much do you actually know about the city?


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## guille_89uy (Jan 14, 2008)

*Barcelona*


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## ChitownCity (May 11, 2010)

^ Nothing about it judging off those pics looks "cookie-cutter"...


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## Penguino (Sep 22, 2007)

Nouvellecosse said:


> I can see how someone would think the newer Vancouver condos are cookie cutter, but the last picture is of the office district and shows only office buildings that all have completely different designs. How much do you actually know about the city?


know it pretty good. lived ther 4 a while when i moved to canada but it is not a exciting place. office towers there not interesting to me.

you live in vancouver? sorry if i hurt your feelings.








by DEE.GRAPHICDESIGN









by ckkelley at ssp









http://www.flickr.com/photos/rtrska/3410602461/


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## dleung (Mar 5, 2008)

Maybe you don't know what cookie-cutter means? It's not synonymous with "boring". Your second pic is cookie-cutter, but not the others. Why r u posting the same things twice?


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## Nouvellecosse (Jun 4, 2005)

Exactly. Cookie-cutter doesn't mean boring or that you don't find something impressive. It means an example of an identical design repeated over and over again. The office district is not cookie-cutter.

And no, my feelings weren't hurt, it was just a silly thing to say.


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

What I don't understand is, where are we coming up with these carved-in-stone encyclopaedic definitions of "Cookie Cutter"? Why are we so certain that it is _"not synonymous with "boring"_ ? It is obviously a pejorative term and one used to ridicule reams of buildings that have been cranked out with no effort to vary shape or design. They could have been cranked out in 1880 or 1980. I would think that "boring" would certainly be a term associated with "cookie cutter", would it not? It would to me, anyway.


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## dleung (Mar 5, 2008)

Ahh, TB playing devil's advocate again...

"Man, the nightlife in Burnaby is so cookie-cutter!"


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

I found a perfect one!


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## ChristianM23 (Oct 15, 2010)

these show example of gentrification instead of cookie cutter. However, cookie cutter is still something i don't understand well.


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## The Cake On BBQ (May 10, 2010)

Cookie-cutter=boring. Yes, pool's closed.


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

dleung said:


> Ahh, TB playing devil's advocate again...
> 
> "Man, the nightlife in Burnaby is so cookie-cutter!"


Not so much devil's advocate; more _"wtf is he talking about??"_ 
Are you in Burnaby now? I haven't been there in many years.

I don't understand the keenness to nail cookie-cutter down to a specific "definition". It could obviously mean different things as it is a bit of a put-down description.
Sort of like trying to put restrictions on the meaning of "Fugly". :lol:


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## Nouvellecosse (Jun 4, 2005)

I think the real question is what's the point of using a highly specialized and much less familiar term like cookie-cutter when all one means is boring? Why not just say boring?

Well the answer is obviously that a thread called most boring city wouldn't be allowed to exist due to its potential to incite conflict, so using a thread about another topic just to insult any city you don't like or don't find interesting should be viewed no differently.


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## Avian001 (Aug 26, 2005)

"Cookie-Cutter" is definitely an insult in the USA. As mentioned, it generally refers to dull, repetitive housing, but can also refer to other repetitive designs that lack thought or care.

It doesn't mean a grid-based planning system.

I'm typing this right now as an American staying in Barcelona's Eixample district. I do not consider this area "cookie-cutter" by any means. Yes, the urban fabric is a repetitive system of gridded blocks. But so are many American cities. The point is that _individual buildings are unique_, not repetitive.

Coincidentally, I came here from Amsterdam and am returning there in a few days. Of all cities cited, I cannot imagine why _anyone_ in their right mind would consider Amsterdam "cookie-cutter." It is most definitely *not*.


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

Nouvellecosse said:


> I think the real question is what's the point of using a highly specialized and much less familiar term like cookie-cutter when all one means is boring? Why not just say boring?
> 
> Well the answer is obviously that a thread called most boring city wouldn't be allowed to exist due to its potential to incite conflict, so using a thread about another topic just to insult any city you don't like or don't find interesting should be viewed no differently.



I'm not sure how highly specialized "cookie cutter" is as a term. It generally refers to things stamped out repeatedly looking the same. 

I don't feel strongly enough either way to get all worked up about it, but if people say that a lot of buildings look boring because they all look alike, then I suppose that is what the thread is about. Can cookie cutter look "exciting"? :dunno: If people are finding the thread insulting it can easily be closed I suppose.


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## thebackdoorman (Jan 26, 2005)

Why is Barcelona, Athens, Vancouver and Amsterdam in this thread.
Cookie-cutter does not mean a grid system, it also does not necessarily mean repetitive.
If i make one thousand cookies, but spend 1 hour on each one, they are not "cookie-cutter" like even if they look the same. If I use an industrialized size oven and other sorts of machinery, and I come up with one thousand cookies, then that is cookie-cutter like.
So places like Barcelona, well first you will not make a good detective if you think all the buildings look the same cause they do not---because buildings are of the same size and in a grid, it does not mean they are the same. Second, to describe it as cookie-cutter you also have to show that they were built quickly and mechanically.
So, american suburbia is pretty cookie cutter like, one might claim that some mvrdv or gehry buildings are cookie-cutter, but a place like Barcelona??


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## dleung (Mar 5, 2008)

^^Exactly. So far, none of the pics of Barcelona, Athens, etc were showing cookie-cutter. Although Penguino mentioned Vancouver apparently for the wrong reasons (that it's boring), it can be argued that parts of Vancouver ie: concord pacific, and parts of the eastern suburbs are indeed cookie-cutter. Of course, much less so than most North American cities. Yaletown highrises look similar, but only because of regulation, not because one developer stamped out dozens of towers all at once. A most "boring" city thread won't work because "boring" is subjective, whereas "cookie cutter" is objectively defined by the built form. That this is confusing to some people is really surprising.


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

So... what really is the point of the thread? What are we gaining from it? Seems a bit on the lame side, to me.
So far all it seems to be is: _"City A is cookie cutter. No, it isn't, it is just boring"._
_"City B is cookie cutter. No, it isn't because it is European, and is built on a grid system". _


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## dleung (Mar 5, 2008)

Thebackdoorman couldn't have explained it any more clearly. Seems like many people do understand the concept, which is why i don't understand your continued negativity? The natural progression of this thread I presume is to look into examples of cookie-cutter, notice their economies of scale, and maybe discuss ways to achieve that without the coma-inducing environments that tend to result.

Hong Kong has lots of cookie-cutter apartments:









This is literally how they design them:








24 towers x 40 floors x 8 units per floor x 3 people per unit = 23,000 people on a couple hectares, lol


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

Ok, dleung, go for it! Looks to me to be the same stuff we've trotted out about suburban sprawl and urban high rise housing about three hundred times already, but you see something of interest that clearly I do not. Break a leg! kay:


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## Ashok (Jul 17, 2004)

dont nominate Barcelona - it is on the other extreme of cookie cutter cities !


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## Concrete Stereo (May 21, 2005)

dleung said:


> ^^Exactly. So far, none of the pics of Barcelona, Athens, etc were showing cookie-cutter. Although Penguino mentioned Vancouver apparently for the wrong reasons (that it's boring), it can be argued that parts of Vancouver ie: concord pacific, and parts of the eastern suburbs are indeed cookie-cutter. Of course, much less so than most North American cities. Yaletown highrises look similar, but only because of regulation, not because one developer stamped out dozens of towers all at once. A most "boring" city thread won't work because "boring" is subjective, whereas "cookie cutter" is objectively defined by the built form. That this is confusing to some people is really surprising.


Well... For me 'cookie-cutter' as a concept is very much related to the cliché (or reality) of the endless sprawl of say LA suburbs

But on a more personal level, I have to say I have an experience from both Athens and Barcelona Eixampla which is not so much about being cookie-cutter but about being 'generic' (or about being 'badly built speculation').

Athens is the most generic city I've ever visited. In this sense that it feels you could exit a random metro station and be surrounded by the same faceless white diarrhea without knowing where you are, and without a general feeling of quality. I'm putting it a bit hard, but the city's urbanism is very criticiseable from this point. 

The same goes for Barcelona - which is at the same time pretty and ugly. Barcelona has a scale of faceless generic speculative architecture which deserves to be criticized. I don't want to suggest Barcelona is not worth a visit, or isn't worth its current status, but at the same time it has a huge scale of developments which aren't fitting to the general image of the city. The Eixampla - to be perfectly honest - is mostly in terrible condition. And it's getting worse - in this sense that in the old towns many quality buildings have been replaced by developments that are - quite frankly - just about making money. Badly constructed, badly detailed. As a tourist you don't notice - because you make sure you stay in the pretty area - but as an inhabitant, you are mostly in using the diarrhea. I think a city (any city, but especially Barcelona) or at least the architects should be very much concerned with defending the general quality of the city. You need high standards. As I said before, it should at least be possible to criticise this aspect - without getting into pointless discussions about respect and disrespect.


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

Most North Americans who visit Europe see only the pretty touristic areas and never come across the blandness, or the sprawl of suburbs, and often leave the country thinking sprawl or boring repetition doesn't exist in Europe (note I have said _"most"_ not_ "all"_ so hopefully this will prevent people screaming at me! :lol. When you live in a city, you get to know it at a different level.


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## guille_89uy (Jan 14, 2008)

Concrete Stereo said:


> The same goes for Barcelona - which is at the same time pretty and ugly. Barcelona has a scale of faceless generic speculative architecture which deserves to be criticized. I don't want to suggest Barcelona is not worth a visit, or isn't worth its current status, but at the same time it has a huge scale of developments which aren't fitting to the general image of the city. The Eixampla - to be perfectly honest - is mostly in terrible condition. And it's getting worse - in this sense that in the old towns many quality buildings have been replaced by developments that are - quite frankly - just about making money. Badly constructed, badly detailed. As a tourist you don't notice - because you make sure you stay in the pretty area - but as an inhabitant, you are mostly in using the diarrhea. I think a city (any city, but especially Barcelona) or at least the architects should be very much concerned with defending the general quality of the city. You need high standards. As I said before, it should at least be possible to criticise this aspect - without getting into pointless discussions about respect and disrespect.



+ 1000000000


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## Botswana (Aug 29, 2009)

While there certainly is sprawl in Europe, it is not nearly as bad as it is in Canada and the USA. Just drive through Edmonton one day. Faceless, soulless, godawful houses all exact replicas of each other placed in gigantic rows.










This is a picture of our north side. DISGUSTING. :nuts:Even my neighborhood is filled with multiple replicas of the same ugly houses with the exact same design. At least cities like Barcelona have some culture and elegance, North American sprawl is just one gigantic jungle of shit. Edmonton is bigger in area than Chicago and New York, and we have much less people. 

It's even worse in a city like Atlanta or Phoenix, where it is just miles and miles of the same horrid two story houses with white picket fences. If I was a dictator of America, I would burn down all the suburbs and force people back into the city. :bash: The thing is, in Europe there isn't enough space to have all of these massive sprawling cities, so you have more compact ones with nice little towns everywhere, in Canada and the USA, we have TONS of room, so we can expand our cities as far as we want, until they're just a mush of massive little neighborhoods vomited all over the countryside.

At least Asia got it right, and all the people live IN the city.


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## Ribarca (Jan 28, 2005)

Concrete Stereo said:


> The same goes for Barcelona - which is at the same time pretty and ugly. Barcelona has a scale of faceless generic speculative architecture which deserves to be criticized. I don't want to suggest Barcelona is not worth a visit, or isn't worth its current status, but at the same time it has a huge scale of developments which aren't fitting to the general image of the city. The Eixampla - to be perfectly honest - is mostly in terrible condition.


It's the eixample! And there we are at the root of the problem. You don't know what the eixample entails since you can't spell it. 

The eixample is in a better state than ever.... The most beautiful boulevards of Barcelona are here and it's one of the pricier neighborhoods. You probably mean the outskirts of which technically most are not even Barcelona proper...


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## dmoor82 (Jul 7, 2009)

My home city of Oklahoma City,Oklahoma USA might fit The mold of this thread perfectly!Sad to say!


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## Ni3lS (Jun 29, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Miami's wetern suburbs look like an abstract painting from air. They also finish abruptly into the Everglades (see the left of the pic).


Lol. And they're wondering why there are alligators living in their basements or blocking the highways.


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## strandeed (May 31, 2009)

I would rather suffer American suburban "sprawl" than live in this depressing arrangement commonly found in British cities.

These pictures were taken not far from where I live.


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## Mr Bricks (May 6, 2005)

^I disagree. With some basic renovation those houses could look almost charming. They look robust and real and the streets are smaller not to mention there´s no gridiron plan.


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## strandeed (May 31, 2009)

That is exactly the attitude that causes this mess...

you are looking at one of the poorest, most welfare dependent and crime ridden areas of the north east.

An interesting fact I have noticed seems to be the link between poverty and red brick terraced housing wherever I have traveled in the UK 

There is NOTHING to be envious about in this town... As someone who has lived in both the USA and the UK... there is no comparison.

Cookie cutter American suburbia anytime 

Here is a satellite photo of Ashington (the town pictured). 










look it up


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## ChitownCity (May 11, 2010)

^ that second pic looks terrible but I see nothing wrong with the rest of it. I'd rather have are suburbs (the new ones) look like that instead of what they are right now. I don't see how that is depressing compared to new subdivisions like the ones in Florida, but then again I've always liked rowhomes...


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## strandeed (May 31, 2009)

What is planned on paper does not mean it will work in real life.... property values in this area remain very low and the streets are not a nice place to walk through.

Row upon row of terraced houses quickly become shabby due to the high concentration of people in a small area, combined with a lack of jobs.

It is also awkward to navigate due to fact every street looks the same.


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## ChitownCity (May 11, 2010)

^ Lol true


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## dleung (Mar 5, 2008)

The problems you mention have less to do with the built form as it is the population that lives in it. If it's close to the inner city and transit, it'll gentrify eventually, perhaps marketed as a bohemian hipster neighbourhood...


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