# Germany - A rail journey



## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Germany​

P5193957 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Here are photos from my recent trip through Germany by rail. Here is the route i took


Untitled-1 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr​
Sailing from Southampton (page 1)
on the QM2 (page 2)
to Hamburg, (page 2)
then to Berlin, (Page 7)
then Dresden, Page 15  (from post 296)
then Nuremburg, Page 20 (from post 385)
then Fussen where the fairytale Neuschwanstein castle is Page 21 (from post 419)
and finally Munich.Page 24 (from post 468)


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Firstly heres is Southampton

A view over a very rainy Southampton from my hotel, here you cans ee the civic center and park, in the distance you can make out a large cruise ship the Arcadia


P5101789 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5101793 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5111796 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5111797 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5111799 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5111798 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

The Bargate, the old entrance to Southmapton who's city walls are largly intact


P5111800 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5111801 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5111804 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

QM2 arriving in Southampton


P5111805 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Docked


P5111831 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Old London to Southampton rail terminus, this area has been greatly improved since my last visit a few years ago!


P5111840 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## Linguine (Aug 10, 2009)

magnificent, thanks for sharing your photos on your rail journey in Germany...:cheers:


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

Beautiful, very nice photos from Germany


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## hmueller2 (Feb 3, 2009)

christos-greece said:


> Beautiful, very nice photos from Germany


they are not from germany (yet)


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## Tiaren (Jan 29, 2006)

This might get pretty interesting! I'm thrilled to see more!


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Thanks everyone, as said not in Germany yet, still in the UK, in Southampton. Will update with around 9 pics a day so as not to overwhelm.


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

One of the things i was very interested to see is how German cities compared to British ones, and others i had been to around the world, especially with reference to how they were bombed and their redevelopment after the war. Seeing what was left, what was restored and what quality it was restored to. With this in mind Southampton is an interesting place because it does have at times a very disjointed feel between modern developments and the medieval character of alot fo the city center. It seems most of the buildings from the industrial revolution and empire times have been lost in Southmaptons city center, with more preservation of the medieval buildings.

This grand building reminded me of ones in Liverpool and London


P5111844 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Anyone who knows of the Titanic will be interested to know this building was the White Star Lines offices during the disaster


P5111846 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5111847 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

A row of exclectic styles on the edge of teh docks


P5111848 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Was trying to get to the top of the car park to get a better view fo the ship but couldnt, anyway this was quite a smart car park with little units on the ground floor for boat storage etc. Always pleases me when such mundane buildings are given a bit of style and extra functionality


P5111851 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Unfortunately the glory days of 1st class customers travling by rail to the station on the right, and then staying overnight in the hotel on the left have long gone, but you can still feel the history of a bygone age.


P5111853 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

What was once a grand hotel is now apartments


P5111856 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5111859 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Some of Southamptons preserved medieval buildings, this was part of the city walls


P5111863 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## HS (Jun 7, 2008)

Southampton looks nice. I mean, I find many English cities dark, gray and sad and here it looks a little bit more like France or something. I'm waiting for the Germany!


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## yubnub (May 3, 2010)

great pics of Southampton although I was expecting Germany.


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## Avalanix (Aug 5, 2007)

Nice attunement for what is to come.
Great shots


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## hhhhh (Oct 28, 2009)

Nice shots.


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## Godius (Aug 31, 2011)

Nice captures, I like the diversity of architectural styles.


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Thanks everyone! I am aware of the thread title so will go through the next few pics a bit quicker


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

More buildings incorporated in to the city walls


P5111864 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

A trip on the Hythe Ferry, gives a good view as you pass the cruise terminal and very cheap, unfortunately the weather changed.


P5111869 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Hythe pier, aparently one of the top 10 longest in the UK and the oldest operating train on a pier in the world, and not much more exciting than it sounds! Was still a pretty authentic experiance though there really isnt anything in Hythe, other than a small shopping street and a couple of quaint houses


P5111878 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Those last two pictures are amazing - what a huge port. I am surprised they have the port in so close to the city. I would think it would be hard to load and unload ships to trains and trucks in such a confined space.

But it does look very impressive!!


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## hhhhh (Oct 28, 2009)

Hamburg is amazing.

Great pictures.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Amazing pictures. What a prevelige you had arriving in such a way! What a view, my god.


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## Letniczka (Feb 4, 2007)

cardiff said:


> I have to say the arrival in Hamburg was spectacular, but the facilities for ships is really poor! We got off the ship and then went through what looked like a terminal made out of ship containers, which was funky but very basic.


They started HafenCity 2003. 
When finished ... http://www.hafencity.com/de/ueberseequartier.html


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## manrush (May 8, 2008)

Beautiful photojourney.


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Tiaren said:


> Regarding the lack of historical buildings:
> Well, Hamburg was, as you probably know, hit pretty bad by bomings during WWII. For all the destruction that happened, I would even dare to say, they did a good job rebuilding the city. Hamburg still has it's fair share of historic architecture.
> (Hope you were inside the Rathaus/city hall, because it is even more gorgeous from the inside and luckily completely preserved.)
> Looking at the map you posted, you unfortunately didn't visit one single city/town that was spared in WWII. Munich might have given you a little glimpse of how beautiful german cities once were though.


I read up more on the bombings of German cities after i came back from visiting Germany, i think what struck me is how completely devestated the cities were, especially Dresden which was full of refuges as well. What surprised me was how coherent Hamburg felt, it felt like a vibrant bustling and very often beautiful city. I'll come to my views on Munich later as they are mixed, but i preffered Hamburg by far (maybe due to the entrance). In many places it felt more comparable to Australian cities in terms of modern and historical buildings, whereas in the Uk and other European cities there were alot fewer historical buildings in Hamburg.



hhhhh said:


> Hamburg is amazing.
> 
> Great pictures.


It is, thank you



joshsam said:


> Amazing pictures. What a prevelige you had arriving in such a way! What a view, my god.


It was a real privelige, thank you



Letniczka said:


> They started HafenCity 2003.
> When finished ... http://www.hafencity.com/de/ueberseequartier.html


Thanks, Hamburg and my city Cardiff share a similar accolade of largest waterfront regenerations in Europe



manrush said:


> Beautiful photojourney.


Thank you!


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Chicago esque overhead railways, well maybe it came first who knows but is a really cool urbanfeature weve lost in the UK


P5132488 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5132489 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

City hall


P5132490 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Stunning!


P5132493 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Internal couryard open to the public, something not seen in UK city halls which are normally more hostile to visitors


P5132496 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5132502 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5132503 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5132509 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Famous shipping company HQ


P5132514 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Nice shots! and nice architecture. I really love the elevated metro also. I was totally in love when I first saw the historical overhead monorail system in Wüppertal for instance.


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## Avalanix (Aug 5, 2007)

Indeed very nice pictures, although you could might post some more pictures per post.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^It keeps the tread pages short. I don't mind. better than 200 pics on one page...


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## Bavarian Angelshark (Nov 27, 2007)

wow, awesome pictures! kay:



cardiff said:


> ...One thing was very apparent the churches were much taller than British ones traditionally are...


St. Nikolai 147.8 m 
St. Petri 132.2 m
St. Michaelis 132.1 m
St. Jacobi 125.4 m 
St. Katharinen 116.7 m 

for comparison: tallest church in Munich: Frauenkirche 98.5 m


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Were these structures destroyed in the war and rebuilt or did they survive intact?


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## Tiaren (Jan 29, 2006)

^^
Most of Hamburg's inner city was completely destroyed. Often, only the charred (but still usable) facades were standing... So I would say partly rebuilt.
The city hall, shown on many pictures, is a little miracle though. It was almost untouched, from the outside or inside. Only the uppermost chamber in the belltower had burned out in the war.


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## Letniczka (Feb 4, 2007)

A pity, so few tourists enter our city hall, ... no time  

Great 3D tour guide of the interior of the building:
http://www.rathaus-3d.hamburg.de/#pano=175


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

joshsam said:


> Nice shots! and nice architecture. I really love the elevated metro also. I was totally in love when I first saw the historical overhead monorail system in Wüppertal for instance.


Thank you! Love this kind of urban transport, though it doesnt always provide the best xperiance for pedestrians



Avalanix said:


> Indeed very nice pictures, although you could might post some more pictures per post.


Thank you, didint want to have thousands of pics on one page



joshsam said:


> ^^It keeps the tread pages short. I don't mind. better than 200 pics on one page...


exactly



Bavarian Angelshark said:


> wow, awesome pictures! kay:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, and thanks for the heights. Ive noticed Munich mentioned a couple of times, is there a rivlry between the two cities or is it because they are the second and third largest cities?



Tiaren said:


> ^^
> Most of Hamburg's inner city was completely destroyed. Often, only the charred (but still usable) facades were standing... So I would say partly rebuilt.
> The city hall, shown on many pictures, is a little miracle though. It was almost untouched, from the outside or inside. Only the uppermost chamber in the belltower had burned out in the war.


Unbelievable it survived, a bit like St Pauls in London surrounded by devestation. Are there any pics?



Letniczka said:


> A pity, so few tourists enter our city hall, ... no time
> 
> Great 3D tour guide of the interior of the building:
> http://www.rathaus-3d.hamburg.de/#pano=175


I didnt get time to go inside so thanks for that, its really beautiful. love the mural of the docks in the main hall.


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

I loved how these lakes sprung off the main shopping center, was a real oasis in the heart of the city and quite a unique feature. Normally there is a bit of a walk from the main shopping streets.


P5132515 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5132523 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5132526 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5132527 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5132529 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Pano >>>>>>>>>>>>>>


P5132531 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

One of the few pedestrianised streets, in the UK there is generally at least one large pedestrianised street for shopping etc.


P5132537 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5132541 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5132542 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## Letniczka (Feb 4, 2007)

cardiff said:


> One of the few pedestrianised streets, in the UK there is generally at least one large pedestrianised street for shopping etc.


Hamburg is compared with Munich more British  so also we have such a "feature", the Spitalerstraße as main pedestrian street, very busy Mo-Sa. But the main feature of Hamburg are its passages, http://www.hamburg.de/passagenbummel , 13 as for today. As you were here, the port festival biased the real image of Hamburg's shopping city, since everyone was in the port then.
Hamburg and Munich rivaltry? Not really, and probably only something for hardcored online local patriots or soccer fans. Just too far away and too many differences.
The last Hamburg's rival was ... Altona, till 1864 Danish  That's why the Reeperbahn, incl. Große Freiheit or the Fischmarkt are pretty well developed today.


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## frank hannover (Oct 5, 2005)

Thank you for the cool pics from Hamburg , my absolute favourite city in Germany , and thats on the waterway entrance , unique !

In addition to the main churches you have the cityhall tower (112 m ),what make up the historic skyline . Thats why city fathers protect the city view from really tall skyscrapers. As your cool Alster lake pano shows they forbidd tall modern buildings nearly everywhere within the next miles.
But Hamburg was often named as a secret tip , a must too see city in papers like "the Guardian " or " the New York Times .
I 'll wait for more !


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Letniczka said:


> Hamburg is compared with Munich more British  so also we have such a "feature", the Spitalerstraße as main pedestrian street, very busy Mo-Sa. But the main feature of Hamburg are its passages, http://www.hamburg.de/passagenbummel , 13 as for today. As you were here, the port festival biased the real image of Hamburg's shopping city, since everyone was in the port then.
> Hamburg and Munich rivaltry? Not really, and probably only something for hardcored online local patriots or soccer fans. Just too far away and too many differences.
> The last Hamburg's rival was ... Altona, till 1864 Danish  That's why the Reeperbahn, incl. Große Freiheit or the Fischmarkt are pretty well developed today.


I missed the Spitalerstraße, walked very close to it though! Thanks for the info.



frank hannover said:


> Thank you for the cool pics from Hamburg , my absolute favourite city in Germany , and thats on the waterway entrance , unique !
> 
> In addition to the main churches you have the cityhall tower (112 m ),what make up the historic skyline . Thats why city fathers protect the city view from really tall skyscrapers. As your cool Alster lake pano shows they forbidd tall modern buildings nearly everywhere within the next miles.
> But Hamburg was often named as a secret tip , a must too see city in papers like "the Guardian " or " the New York Times .
> I 'll wait for more !


Thank you, i completely agree that Hamburg is my favourite large city in Germany. I recomend it to anyone, i only touched the surface as would have loved to have gone to the museum, explored the parks etc.


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5132549 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5132550 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5132551 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5132553 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5132562 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5132563 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5132570 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5132573 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5142580 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## Letniczka (Feb 4, 2007)

Too many interesting storys on your pics, so only this one ...
P5132562
Hamburg's old and new telecommunication towers.
In the year 1948 there was, worldwide, the first Morse transmission after the new (current) standard between the Alte Post and Cuxhaven P5132268, though I don't suppose, the first characters were · · · − − − · · · / SOS.


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## Bristol Mike (Aug 5, 2007)

Fantastic thread mate, I really enjoy going through your photo threads. Look forward to the next instalment.


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## yubnub (May 3, 2010)

ditto, I had no idea Hamburg was so awesome looking. I will have to visit one day


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Letniczka said:


> Too many interesting storys on your pics, so only this one ...
> P5132562
> Hamburg's old and new telecommunication towers.
> In the year 1948 there was, worldwide, the first Morse transmission after the new (current) standard between the Alte Post and Cuxhaven P5132268, though I don't suppose, the first characters were · · · − − − · · · / SOS.


Interesting, the first morse transmition across water was done just outside my city.



Bristol Mike said:


> Fantastic thread mate, I really enjoy going through your photo threads. Look forward to the next instalment.


Thanks! 



yubnub said:


> ditto, I had no idea Hamburg was so awesome looking. I will have to visit one day


It is awsome, spend more time than i did though, it has some amazing sounding museums and attractions i didint see.


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Interesting canal side architecture reminds me of Bristol


P5142581 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Every large city in northern Europe has one of these unfortunately


P5142583 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Beautiful, definately like Bristol


P5142585 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5142590 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5142588 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Now the Hafen city is very unique, beautiful historic dockyards which I'm guessing are a mix of apartments and carpet shops, which were everywhere there.


P5142591 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5142592 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5142596 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

And the other side is the more modern development area. It was nice though feels like it needs time to develop a sense of its own identity, as is the case with all modern developments on this scale. When the concert hall is finnished (i'm avoiding spelling its name  ) I'm sure the area will have more of an identity, but it was lovely.


P5142600 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## Wapper (Feb 24, 2011)

Stunning!


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Wow what a nice city! very nice pictures too


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## Letniczka (Feb 4, 2007)

cardiff said:


> Interesting, the first morse transmition across water was done just outside my city.


A very famous story!!!

P5142592. The old buildings belong to the so called Speicherstadt (warehouse district), build after 1880, not to HafenCity. The last is the new quarter there. 

P5142590. Cremon ist Hamburg's oldest street, mentioned in 12th cent.

P5132573. Is that pic taken from the Marriott hotel?

A pretty funny story bout the street you see on right, which was named ABC Street already in the 17th century, since the houses there were "numbered" by letters A..B..C..D.. and not even by numbers. After the street was finished, they named the next street "Neue ABC-Straße" / "New ABC-Street". Later they had no ideas more :lol:


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Wapper said:


> Stunning!


Thanks!



joshsam said:


> Wow what a nice city! very nice pictures too


Thanks



Letniczka said:


> A very famous story!!!
> 
> P5142592. The old buildings belong to the so called Speicherstadt (warehouse district), build after 1880, not to HafenCity. The last is the new quarter there.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info and correction, yes the photo was from my room in the Marriott.


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5142605 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

This is actually a pano of 4 pictures, its a massive building


P5142606 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Same here


P5142611 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5142615 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5142617 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5142618 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

The only museum i went to, ok it was the main reason for visiting Hamburg in the first place as had been told how great it was, but the more i discovered of Hamburg the more i wished i'd booked more time there


P5142622 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

And heres whats inside, the worlds largest model world, cant really call it a model railway as its so much more than that!


P5142624 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5142627 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Where i'm going later in the trip


P5142630 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

I think what was most fantastic was how vehicles would travel from the other side of the room to tackle a fire, and once done go back again stopping traffic in the way. The whole place was an engineering marvel


P5142637 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

An example of the sense of humour around the place


P5142638 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## Chadoh25 (Dec 28, 2007)

Well done!


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## Wapper (Feb 24, 2011)

That model is incrediblemg: No surprise that it is in Germany though.

I really want to visit Hamburg now


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Chadoh25 said:


> Well done!


Thanks



Wapper said:


> That model is incrediblemg: No surprise that it is in Germany though.
> 
> I really want to visit Hamburg now


Personally i would have expected it more in the States, as they are more excentric but having it in Europe is much easier for me!


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

A walk around the harbour city


P5142646 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5142647 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5142648 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5142649 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5142650 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5142651 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5142653 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5142655 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5142665 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## Aranou (Apr 29, 2009)

Hi Cardiff, wonderful trip in the ship, wonderful pictures (every single one), wonderful thread. 
Thank you so much, this is one of the threads that really make this forum enjoyable.


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## Tiaren (Jan 29, 2006)

cardiff said:


> Personally i would have expected it more in the States, as they are more excentric but having it in Europe is much easier for me!


Then you don't know germans too well. They LOVE their train miniature models.

Great picures again by the way!


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Aranou said:


> Hi Cardiff, wonderful trip in the ship, wonderful pictures (every single one), wonderful thread.
> Thank you so much, this is one of the threads that really make this forum enjoyable.


Oh wow, massive compliment, thank you!



Tiaren said:


> Then you don't know germans too well. They LOVE their train miniature models.
> 
> Great picures again by the way!


To be honest ive not met many Germans, they dont generally live in the UK from my experiance, met lots of French, Spanish and eastern Europeans though. Kind of a British thing to like models as well, always a boating lake and some old men with nothing better to do (namely my dad)


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

A famous building from just before the war, named because of the trade links of the company


P5142667 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5142668 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5142670 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Loved how every church spire was open to climb (or take a lift in some cases), really dont get this in the UK, very few churches open their spires even for just once a month!


P5142672 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Saying that it was reall scary as you are stood with all four sides of the spire surrounding you, and you realise you are stoof about 100 feet up in a little stick that could blow off


P5142677 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5142680 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5142683 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Views over the lakes


P5142686 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5142689 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5142696 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## Skrapebook (May 7, 2010)

Stunning! 
Hamburg is immensly impressive! :banana::banana:


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## KamZolt (Oct 22, 2010)

The Market Square looks _fantastisch_!


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## hhhhh (Oct 28, 2009)

i Love Hamburg.

Amazing photos :]


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

_Fantastisch_ looking city indeed


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Skrapebook said:


> Stunning!
> Hamburg is immensly impressive! :banana::banana:


Thanks it is



KamZolt said:


> The Market Square looks _fantastisch_!


The area next to it is probably nicer, next to the canals



hhhhh said:


> i Love Hamburg.
> 
> Amazing photos :]


Thanks!



joshsam said:


> _Fantastisch_ looking city indeed


Thanks


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Last pics of Hamburg

Modern shopping center, nice but a bit souless


P5142725 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5142726 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5142727 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5142730 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5142733 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

The train station


P5142737 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5142742 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5142738 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Next up Berlin.


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## Wunderknabe (Jun 29, 2010)

And great it has been done 

Great work man, you really understand how to handle a camera


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

cardiff said:


> Cant remember seeing much of a university in Heidelburg, must have been away from the touristy older part? Still a pretty place to study though.


It's sometimes considered to be the oldest university in Germany (others are Prague and Vienna), nowadays it has 2 campuses off the centre (the biggest one on the edge of the city, across the Neckar) and several other buildings around the city. However, there are quite a few uni buildings in the centre itself, amongs others the central administration (right on Lange Straße, afaik) and a big canteen. As the campus idea is relatively new to German universities (and was introduced just in the 20th century afaik), elder unis are spread around the city and sometimes you'll hardly notice that its there.
Above all, a very pricy place to study, though.


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## Dr.Seltsam (May 28, 2008)

cardiff said:


> You can see the roof of the American embassy, shame the rest of it isnt as impressive


Fantastic photo thread! Thanks for sharing your photos with us!


I think the roof that you mean is not the one of the American embassy but the roof of the DZ Bank building.


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Wunderknabe said:


> And great it has been done
> 
> Great work man, you really understand how to handle a camera


Thanks! my ego is through the roof now 



thun said:


> It's sometimes considered to be the oldest university in Germany (others are Prague and Vienna), nowadays it has 2 campuses off the centre (the biggest one on the edge of the city, across the Neckar) and several other buildings around the city. However, there are quite a few uni buildings in the centre itself, amongs others the central administration (right on Lange Straße, afaik) and a big canteen. As the campus idea is relatively new to German universities (and was introduced just in the 20th century afaik), elder unis are spread around the city and sometimes you'll hardly notice that its there.
> Above all, a very pricy place to study, though.


Thanks for the info, in the UK universitys tend to concentrate in their fields (ie all medical together, creative studies together etc.)



Dr.Seltsam said:


> Fantastic photo thread! Thanks for sharing your photos with us!
> 
> 
> I think the roof that you mean is not the one of the American embassy but the roof of the DZ Bank building.


Thanks, love sharing the pics, its interesting to get the extra info from those in the know. Wasnt sure if it was the American embassy, thought it looked a bit fancy for the facade.


----------



## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Its a helical staircase, so you come down a different spiral to the one you go up, like the Palace of Chambord in France


P5152902 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5152907 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

A view to the victory column, it used to be just outside the Reichstag


P5152909 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

The new station


P5152914 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

The top is open, with rain water being diverted, while stale air is expelled


P5152917 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5152924 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5152926 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5152930 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

A building finally for all the German people


P5152937 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5152940 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5152945 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Soviet memorial to war dead


P5152946 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5152947 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5152954 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

The holocaust memorial


P5152959 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Was quite an interesting space, its left up to the explorer to interpret it. Personally i interpreted it as the blocks being bodies. At first it easy to overlook them, but the further you get to the center the biger they are until they they are all around and above you, and you are unable to ignor them. Quite moving


P5152962 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Heading to Potsdamer Platz


P5152963 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Very cool building


P5152966 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5152967 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Ritz carlton


P5152974 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

A pano 


P5152976 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Sony center, was a really nice public space


P5152988 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5152989 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Interesting that only Soviet memorabilia is for sale, i'm guessing aimed at western rather than ex soviet country tourists?


P5152996 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5152998 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Wall of terror, gave a good account of the Nazis rise to power and their crimes and ethos. Suprisingly, despite the UK's preocupation with WW2, i knew little of what the Nazis stood for, rather what they did. The soviet souvenires and sites like this all added to Berlin being completely tied up with the last 100 years (not that it should be forgotten


P5152999 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Cool


P5153000 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Had to be seen! though completely underwhelming, not as underwhelmingas the 'manequin piss' in Brussels though 


P5153001 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

cardiff said:


> The soviet souvenires and sites like this all added to Berlin being completely tied up with the last 100 years (not that it should be forgotten)


Firstly, that's what most people associate Berlin with. And these are the most important historical episodes for what Germany is nowadays without any doubt.
Secondly, unlike other metropolises, Berlin basically was forests and sand 300 years ago (I'm exaggerating a little bit here), so it's actually a city with a comparatively short history for both German and European standards.


----------



## cristof (Feb 8, 2006)

the city is great ... lots of space left... u got the feeling that Berlin is the next big thing in Europe being there last week. tiny detail about Germans people... outgoing for sure but so not keen for speaking english ... it struck me but anyway Berlin is great.


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

thun said:


> Firstly, that's what most people associate Berlin with. And these are the most important historical episodes for what Germany is nowadays without any doubt.
> Secondly, unlike other metropolises, Berlin basically was forests and sand 300 years ago (I'm exaggerating a little bit here), so it's actually a city with a comparatively short history for both German and European standards.


Its history as capital of Prussia is also important. Other German cities that were equally as destroyed by war didnt dwell on it as much, though i suppose they have had longer to rebuild and move on, and focussed more on their histories as capitals of their respected states.



cristof said:


> the city is great ... lots of space left... u got the feeling that Berlin is the next big thing in Europe being there last week. tiny detail about Germans people... outgoing for sure but so not keen for speaking english ... it struck me but anyway Berlin is great.


It has as much potential as any other European capital from what i could see, and is a great city. Really surprised you found the Germans reluctant to speak English, i completely found the oposit, using only a few words in German, such as hello, goodbye, thank you, please, and then switching to English, the Germans were surprisingly easy to talk to. i never once had any problems comunicating and outside literally a couple of words, i speak no German. In fact I was wondering how Germans felt about English encroching into their lives, as everywhere i went i heared English being spoken, it almost seemed as if war had forced an alien culture into German culture? not sure if ive worded that correctly but something didnt feel right.


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Freidrich strab


P5153003 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5153005 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5153008 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5153010 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5153016 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5153018 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## Wunderknabe (Jun 29, 2010)

cardiff said:


> Freidrich strab


Interesting what you made of the famous Friedrichstraße 



About the language issue: well I can assure you german is still widely spoken in germany, gladly.

However, indeed many people are concernced about the amount of english influence.

For instance, it is common to find an english (..sounding) name for new products (I guess marketing-guys think it sounds cooler..). Although its quite nonsense sometimes..

--

However, good work on the photos, as always


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Thanks, its wasnt that i didnt hear German spoken, just that English was more widely spoken than i have heared in almost every other country ive been to where their native language isnt English. I wondered if this was a consequence of wwii, seperation and occupation, or just merely that Germany was comfortable with having both languages and not as staunchly resilient as say the French (or to a greater degree the Welsh where i am from)?


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5163262 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

City hall


P5163275 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Neptuine fountain


P5163277 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5163282 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5163299 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## Wunderknabe (Jun 29, 2010)

Great start to this page already.

You had fantastic light on your fernsehturm-stay. Cool deep urban feeling.

Did you visited the western part of the city as well (not that I wish you get there too soon  ) ?


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Made sure i was there for sunsert, one tip though is dont eat in the revolving restaurant, the food looked pretty but tasted like cardboard!

Funnily enough, my next set of pics are of the western part of the city.


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## Bristol Mike (Aug 5, 2007)

Brilliant photos cardiff. Especially love the colours on the Rotes Rathaus.


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

We caught the train over to Berlin Zoo, and wanted to go shopping. We had planned to spend the day in Potzdam but were a bit tired of sight seeing. A band got on the train and started playing music, funny at first but a bit of a cliche now (i remember thinking i would have found this cool 5 years ago.....i'm so jaded now!)


P5173302 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

New hotel just finnishing construction


P5173303 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Unfortunately the famous bombed church was undergoing renovation so didint take any pics, but we headed for supposedly europes largest department store, only to find it was a national holiday and all shops were closed! So a day strolling around the Tiergarten was decided on instead


P5173306 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5173308 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

The victory column, just asking to be climbed!

P5173309 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5173312 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5173314 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5173327 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

The German chancellors residence, more opulent than i was expecting


P5173328 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5173331 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## Odoaker (May 22, 2011)

Just can't get enough!


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

I LOVE GERMANY


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## Tiaren (Jan 29, 2006)

cardiff said:


> P5173328 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr
> 
> The German chancellors residence, more opulent than i was expecting


It's _Bellevue Palace_, residence of the president.


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## streetlegal (Sep 7, 2008)

Another awesome thread, Cardiff. I want to go back to Germany now!


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## the man from k-town (Sep 8, 2008)

awesome pics! very nice thread! i can't wait to see the dresden pics.


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Odoaker said:


> Just can't get enough!


Cool, there is plenty to come!



inno4321 said:


> I LOVE GERMANY


Me too!



Tiaren said:


> It's _Bellevue Palace_, residence of the president.


Is it the German president or Chancellor, she/the position is never reffered to as president in the UK?



streetlegal said:


> Another awesome thread, Cardiff. I want to go back to Germany now!


Thanks!



the man from k-town said:


> awesome pics! very nice thread! i can't wait to see the dresden pics.


Thanks, not long until Dresden


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Another statue to Bismark


P5173332 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Bellevue Palace


P5173333 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

A walk along the riverside, was lovely modern gardens and a really nice place to "promonade"


P5173336 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5173338 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5173340 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Not sure what this was (concert hall or debating chamber)


P5173341 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

This was almost like a modern take on a palace, its the german chancellery 


P5173345 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

I stopped here in a beer garden and had a burger, was a real slice of German leisure life and can imagine on hot summer days being a fun thing to do with friends


P5173350 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5173351 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## Dzwonsson (Feb 9, 2008)

@cradiff: this thread is awesome! Moreover, if awesomeness could be measured it'd be definately one of the most awesome SSC threads I've ever seen. Great job! :applause:


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

cardiff said:


> Is it the German president or Chancellor, she/the position is never reffered to as president in the UK?


Angela Merkel is the Federal Chancellor. The Chancellor is the head of Government. In other countries often called Prime Minister.

The Federal President is Joachim Gauck. The President is the head of state.


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## Tiaren (Jan 29, 2006)

cardiff said:


> Is it the German president or Chancellor, she/the position is never reffered to as president in the UK?


Bellevue is not the residence of _ Angela Merkel_ (our Chancellor) but the residence of _Joachim Gauck_ (our president).

The president is head of state in Germany, but holds only ceremonial power. Then comes the Chancellor, with the effective power.

By the way, the official residence of the Chancellor is this building on the right:

P5152924 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

But she prefers to live here, right opposite the Pergamon Museum (you must have walked by):


Am Kupfergraben 6A by clauskamp, on Flickr

It's usually highly secured by guards, as you can see.


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## MiaM (Jul 2, 2010)

Lovely pictures!


One reason for so many cold war memorabilia is sold in Berlin may be because Berlin was the only city divided in a western and an eastern part. Every other city were either part of the western or the eastern part in the cold war days.

Also ex GDR (East Germany) is probably the only part of the former east bloc where many people from the former west bloc understands the native language.

Another reason that memorabilia from the former east german Nationelle Volksarme ("national peoples army") and the former soviet red army is sold is that all ex. NVA signs, symbols and similar stuff and atleast many ex. red army stuff became redundant around 1990, so there is probably more sellable memorabilia available than from any other army. (This reminds me of the classic story of someone shopping on eBay while drunk, and wakes up and wounders what he's going to do with a 3 metre tall Lenin statue. :nuts: I don't know it that story is true or not, but it's a good story anyway).

There has also been a east germany nostalgia trend going on for some years now. ("Ostalgie" = a mix of "Ost" = east and "nostalgie" = nostalgia). The perhaps most famous part of that is the GDR designed "Ampelmenschen" traffic lights for pedestrian crossings. You recognise them by the hat the standing/walking man is wearing.


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## Xorcist (Jun 18, 2006)

cardiff said:


> Not sure what this was (concert hall or debating chamber)
> 
> 
> P5173341 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


this is the "Haus der Kulturen der Welt" ("House of the Cultures of the World") It is a national centre for contemporary non-European art. It presents art exhibitions, theater and dance performances, concerts, author readings, films and academic conferences on non-European Visual Art and culture. It was formerly known as the "Kongresshalle" conference hall, a gift from the United States, designed in 1957 by the American architect Hugh Stubbins Jr. as a part of the Interbau exhibition. John F. Kennedy spoke here during his June 1963 visit to West Berlin. 
To Berliners the building is also known as the "Schwangere Auster" ("pregnant oyster"). :lol:


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## Avalanix (Aug 5, 2007)

MiaM said:


> Lovely pictures!
> 
> 
> One reason for so many cold war memorabilia is sold in Berlin may be because Berlin was the only city divided in a western and an eastern part. Every other city were either part of the western or the eastern part in the cold war days.
> ...


 
That east german nostalgia is just terrible! Obviously the people in the east don't realise that the best thing that could happen to them was the reunification! I don't know how people can worship commieblocks, ex regime leaders, oppression, 24h surveillance, not able to move freely and their crappy cars they had back then. Also the people in the east are horribly arrogant when the topic west vs. east arises. People in the east tend to describe east germany as totally equal, actually even better then the west althought this was NEVER ever the case. And I think it's really sad that even school teachers try to manipulate their students, telling them tails about how beautiful it was to live in the GDR. I know that because I came to East germany in the 3rd grade, and this was/is a totally different world.


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Tiaren said:


> Bellevue is not the residence of _ Angela Merkel_ (our Chancellor) but the residence of _Joachim Gauck_ (our president).
> 
> The president is head of state in Germany, but holds only ceremonial power. Then comes the Chancellor, with the effective power.
> 
> ...


Very interesting, had no idea Germany had a seperate president, i dont think ive seen him refferenced in the UK once on the news and media, yet the French president is always talked about and their prime minister is only refferenced during elections, similarly with Italy. Funny how i walked passed her residence and didint notice it, but then 10 downing street is quite missable if it wasnt for the tourists outside te gates to the street. I also feel quite vindicaed that i thought the chancellerey looked like a modern palace!



MiaM said:


> Lovely pictures!
> 
> 
> One reason for so many cold war memorabilia is sold in Berlin may be because Berlin was the only city divided in a western and an eastern part. Every other city were either part of the western or the eastern part in the cold war days.
> ...


Very interesting, i assumed it was tourist tatt being sold rather than authentic memorabilia. There was a series of documentaries ont he TV about how east Germans had fond memories of teh past, they were generally people who had few skills, not much ambition and not much chance of a job unless they were given one. Additionally i loved the green mand with the hat, very unique



Xorcist said:


> this is the "Haus der Kulturen der Welt" ("House of the Cultures of the World") It is a national centre for contemporary non-European art. It presents art exhibitions, theater and dance performances, concerts, author readings, films and academic conferences on non-European Visual Art and culture. It was formerly known as the "Kongresshalle" conference hall, a gift from the United States, designed in 1957 by the American architect Hugh Stubbins Jr. as a part of the Interbau exhibition. John F. Kennedy spoke here during his June 1963 visit to West Berlin.
> To Berliners the building is also known as the "Schwangere Auster" ("pregnant oyster"). :lol:


Thanks, the pregnant oyster is how i remembered it being called.



Avalanix said:


> That east german nostalgia is just terrible! Obviously the people in the east don't realise that the best thing that could happen to them was the reunification! I don't know how people can worship commieblocks, ex regime leaders, oppression, 24h surveillance, not able to move freely and their crappy cars they had back then. Also the people in the east are horribly arrogant when the topic west vs. east arises. People in the east tend to describe east germany as totally equal, actually even better then the west althought this was NEVER ever the case. And I think it's really sad that even school teachers try to manipulate their students, telling them tails about how beautiful it was to live in the GDR. I know that because I came to East germany in the 3rd grade, and this was/is a totally different world.


People alway look back with rose tinted glasses, there were obviously people who benefitted through comunism but the majority didnt. The same story is still being played out in different parts of the world. If it was a better system it would still be around today, in the end it collapsed on its own rather than through war or subterfuge



Dzwonsson said:


> @cradiff: this thread is awesome! Moreover, if awesomeness could be measured it'd be definately one of the most awesome SSC threads I've ever seen. Great job! :applause:


Wow thank you, really glad you like it and makes me glad i posted the pics!



DiggerD21 said:


> Angela Merkel is the Federal Chancellor. The Chancellor is the head of Government. In other countries often called Prime Minister.
> 
> The Federal President is Joachim Gauck. The President is the head of state.


Thank you


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Found this building interesting due to its isolation from the rest of the city, obviously part of a street scape once, will be interesting to see how it forms part of one in the future


P5173354 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Chancellery


P5173355 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Gardens and fountains


P5173357 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5173366 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5173358 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5173369 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

This pano was quite difficult to do, but looks a bit boring!


P5173373 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5173378 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5173380 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## MattN (Oct 25, 2008)

cardiff said:


> Very interesting, had no idea Germany had a seperate president, i dont think ive seen him refferenced in the UK once on the news and media, yet the French president is always talked about and their prime minister is only refferenced during elections, similarly with Italy. Funny how i walked passed her residence and didint notice it, but then 10 downing street is quite missable if it wasnt for the tourists outside te gates to the street. I also feel quite vindicaed that i thought the chancellerey looked like a modern palace


The French president has executive power though, their Prime Minister does not have an equivalent role to ours. I don't think I've ever heard the President of Italy mentioned on our news (since that is another ceremonial head of state role), only the Prime Minister.


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## Avalanix (Aug 5, 2007)

> People alway look back with rose tinted glasses, there were obviously people who benefitted through comunism but the majority didnt. The same story is still being played out in different parts of the world. If it was a better system it would still be around today, in the end it collapsed on its own rather than through war or subterfuge


I don't think you got me right. 
Their deliberatly trying to brainwash people that the GDR was an absolutely nice place to live. That has nothing to do with your rose tinted glasses.
A huge amount of judges, teachers, city councils, police departments in the eastern states consists of only ex Stasi members. No matter what qualification you had back in 1990 if you didn't had any contacts you weren't about to get a good job. And these guys are today still pulling the strings.
And I know what I'm talking about I'm living there for 11 years now.
And it's not about the system it's rather about the people who are intolerant ignorant and always in a bad mood.


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

Yep. Italy's system is quite similar to the German one. The president (Napoletano) has mainly celebrational duties whereas the Prime Minister (Berlusconi/Monti) is the head of government. It is acutally just the same as in the UK: The Prime Minister does politics, the head of state (the Queen) celebrational duties. They all are parliamentary systems.
France however is different as it's a semi-presidential system where the president (head of state) has a lot more competences and power whereas the prime minister/the government has limited competences (mainly in domestic politics).


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## JValjean (Oct 15, 2009)

@Avalanix:

I completely disagree with your spiteful remarks towards Eastern Germany. I’m from Eastern Bavaria and I studied in Saxony (Zittau and Leipzig) and my wife’s from Weimar (Thuringia). All the administrative elite that has been imposed on eastern municipalities were more or less discarded Westerners! For example the upcoming mayor election in Leipzig will be fought by office holder Burkhard Jung originally from North-Rhine-Westphalia and the current police chief of Leipzig who’s originally from Upper Bavaria. These examples could be continued …

And yes I do believe that a few achievements of the GDR would at least have been worth thinking about whether they could have been adapted. But this wasn’t possible within this post-cold-war-atmosphere and the winner behavior of the western elites. The territories of the former GDR were then made available for exploitation to West German Cooperations.

Well, I’m a great admirer of the East German cityscape. In General less destroyed during and after (!) the war Saxon and Thuringian cities and the likes could preserve more of their heritage than most cities in the West: Just compare Leipzig, Dresden and Erfurt to Stuttgart, Cologne and Kassel.

@cardiff:
Very fine pictures, I’m keen on seeing further ones!


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## Avalanix (Aug 5, 2007)

> @Avalanix:
> 
> I completely disagree with your spiteful remarks towards Eastern Germany. I’m from Eastern Bavaria and I studied in Saxony (Zittau and Leipzig) and my wife’s from Weimar (Thuringia). All the administrative elite that has been imposed on eastern municipalities were more or less discarded Westerners! For example the upcoming mayor election in Leipzig will be fought by office holder Burkhard Jung originally from North-Rhine-Westphalia and the current police chief of Leipzig who’s originally from Upper Bavaria. These examples could be continued …
> 
> ...


Now that's exactly what I meant with brainwashing. 
First of all your claim the elite was replaced by westerners is completely rubbish. I live in Brandenburg and in all of the towns I know there is no one from the west. From about 150 people I know (school) nobody is from the west. (No surprise though) As you might know Matthias Platzeck president of Brandenburg and Stanislaw Tillich president of saxony are both ex Stasi members but of course they don't want the public to know. There's been a HUGE fuss going on after the reunification about getting stasi members out of power (for example former president of brandenburg manfred stolpe who brought innocent people to jail) but of course the vast majority DID stay in power. Why? Simply because all the well educated people were hired by the stasi, and they still had power even after reunification.
You're mentioned example is obviously an individual case. And these guys established a "little GDR" of course like metioned in this article in which you can see that all of the parliament of brandenburg is a former stasi employee:
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deuts...atzeck-sitzt-in-der-stasi-falle-a-664802.html 
so tell me a reason why this shouldn't have be done with judges teachers city councils etc when the whole government of brandenburg consists of ex stasi members ?


> And yes I do believe that a few achievements of the GDR would at least have been worth thinking about whether they could have been adapted.


A FEW ?? People have been caught and tortured for years just because they were telling the truth!

Winner behaviours of the west ? 
I don't know what you mean. It weren't the westerners who were screaming: "we are the nation"



> The territories of the former GDR were then made available for exploitation to West German Cooperations.


:lol: That's was maybe in the dreams of the easterners because there was nothing to exploit. Only very few westgerman companies invested in the east, due to lack of education, instability, corruption and of course the facilities were hopelessly outdated.
Show me some examples from 1990-1995 I'd be very curious if you would find some.
Or do you know any major eastern company today?

Cologne and Kassel (industrial town) are pretty bad examples. Try Freiburg and Aachen for instance since their size is more comparable.
Dresden has only it's city center there outer part is not taht beautiful.


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

MattN said:


> The French president has executive power though, their Prime Minister does not have an equivalent role to ours. I don't think I've ever heard the President of Italy mentioned on our news (since that is another ceremonial head of state role), only the Prime Minister.





thun said:


> Yep. Italy's system is quite similar to the German one. The president (Napoletano) has mainly celebrational duties whereas the Prime Minister (Berlusconi/Monti) is the head of government. It is acutally just the same as in the UK: The Prime Minister does politics, the head of state (the Queen) celebrational duties. They all are parliamentary systems.
> France however is different as it's a semi-presidential system where the president (head of state) has a lot more competences and power whereas the prime minister/the government has limited competences (mainly in domestic politics).


Thanks for the info, typical French doing their own thing  Think i'll stay out of the east and west debate as it still seems a contentious topic! Thanks for the comments and disscussion though, it is interesting to see into a countrys demographic.


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5173381 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

I'm assuming this is war damage, there was notable bullet holes around teh citys buildings


P5173382 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5173383 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5173384 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Aparently not abandoned but donated to students


P5173385 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5173386 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Grand jewish Synagogue


P5173388 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5173390 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5173392 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## JValjean (Oct 15, 2009)

Well I'm not interested in a discussion with you.

Just this one:


Avalanix said:


> Or do you know any major eastern company today?


Ask yourself about the reasons why the GDP per capita of Poland and the Czech Republic are over that one of the East German states wheras at Eastern bloc times it was the other way round. Think about it but don't write another emotionally reflex action answer. 

That's it from my side on this topic!


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## Avalanix (Aug 5, 2007)

Somehow I knew you would say that. 
And by the way the GDP per capita in eastern germany is easily above the GDP per capita in czech or poland.


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## Coihaique (Feb 22, 2011)

Avalanix said:


> Now that's exactly what I meant with brainwashing.


Of course, people with a different opinion than yours are brainwashed. But you think you know everything… But the world is not so easy black and white like you want it to be. Even if everything you say would be right, the way you say it makes you an very dislikable and arrogant person in my eyes. But you are not even right in many aspects, even if you may be in some or even many.



Avalanix said:


> First of all your claim the elite was replaced by westerners is completely rubbish. I live in Brandenburg and in all of the towns I know there is no one from the west. From about 150 people I know (school) nobody is from the west.


First he claimed about Saxony, you have your experience in Brandenburg. One proposal: Don’t gernalise! As you should know, there are much differences between the regions in East Germany, even today – as you can see not only in the history books (We are the nation was mainly screamed in Saxony and this was also the industrial “heart” of the GDR, while Brandenburg was and is more red and was industrial weak compared to Saxony also in GDR time, of course there were also “strongholds” in Brandenburg). By the way – how old are you? You know 150 people in the school? Nobody said, that the westerners came with there family, but of course many were installed in important positions but still had there family in the west and got paid double for this. Of course many of the Westerners came with good will to help (and to earn more) but who are you that you dare to say people are talking nonsense, when they made the experience that sometimes the new boss was not as competent as the old one and was even working against the people around him, because he was at the same time still employed at the west German company, the East German could be a possible competitor (of course most the Western company would have won the competition nevertheless, but there are more than enough examples, where you could at least question it). And it seems many people made this experience. I was too young to see it at work, but at the University in Dresden over half the professors were from the west, because everyone who was in the SED was fired. And I can say from my experience – yes – the western Professors I had tended to be much worse in their field than the old East German professors. Thatswhy there was the saying (which of course can be also unfair) that only the people form the west came which were not good enough to be installed on a Western university to take the places in East Germany which were free because of political reasons. But I agree – this is also black-white point of view, which I dislike. By the way, of course some people who have been in the SED and also some Stasi-people made it in new positions and in cases it is not the parliament I think it is the right decision, if this people did no major terrible things. Because often this people were intelligent (sometimes even very young) and were also used to built the new society. – I hope you know that West Germany after the war used the old Nazi-civil servants which were declared (Mitläufer – followers) to build the new state. Yes – and in my opinion (I bet you will not share) the GDR was a paradies (also in morality) compared to Nazi-Germany (at least if you not look so much on the first 10 years after the war – but hey – it was directly after the war and East Germany was ruled by Russia – and did you know how Germans acted in Eastern Europe – they did it different than in Western Europe).



Avalanix said:


> :lol: That's was maybe in the dreams of the easterners because there was nothing to exploit. Only very few westgerman companies invested in the east, due to lack of education, instability, corruption and of course the facilities were hopelessly outdated.


“Lack of education, corruption” – for all people not from Germany I can only say to this nonsense, that there were massive studies over education and knowledge differences in the East and the West – as there are studies today. They never found this “lack of education in the East” The only thing the west was better was the English language. Today the education studies most often say: education is best in Bavaria and Saxony and worst in Bremen and Berlin – no East West difference rather than a North-South difference. But of course I would never dare to say the people in the North of Germany lack education. For your rude comments towards East Germans I can only say: You are an arrogant ar*x*le. 



Avalanix said:


> Or do you know any major eastern company today?


And this could have no other reasons? What would be if WestGermany had to adopt an totally different system over night? Do you think if WestGermany and China would unit over night and adopt the Chines rules much of the WestGerman companys would survive? If you think so - be happy in your little world. – There are more than enough examples a Western small family company “bought” (with massive state subvention) the former state owned company in the East for nearly nothing and today make 90% of their sales with the products produces in the East (sometimes the products are still the same), but the profit flows (also statistically) to the West, where the family still has their seat and their “Marketing”. – While the ordinary people form the Ruhr-area will not have had anything from the reunification and many people in the West had to accept some additional burden, the big winners of this are also sitting in the West. – Why for example did the German industry expand so much more into Eastern Europe, to Russia and today even China than for example the UK and France? Arrogant as you are you will say this is only because the West German industry is so good and has so educated WestGermans. – I think different – without reunification – VW for example would not challenge Toyota and General Motors as biggest carmaker in the world today.



Avalanix said:


> Dresden has only it's city center there outer part is not taht beautiful.


This is a clear example that you talk like a wise over things you have no clue about. Dresden has a fine, but not so big center, the parts surrounding the center are often ugly and many of the outer parts are maybe the most beautiful of the big cities in Germany. Blasewitz, Lockwitz, Löbtau, Pieschen, Dresden-Plauen – this are all very beautiful parts of the city (and this areas are of course no new incoroperations into the city like in some big cities in the West.


@cardiff: Many thanks for your interesting pictures. Over your threads I also discovered the beauty of the UK and I hope to make a longer holiday there soon.

PS: Sorry for my not so good English, but I was educated in the GDR. But you can be assured that I am strong in other fields. I am working as engineer for a East German company, owned by a West German company, and we are making more profit than our West German sister company, but unfortunately statistically I am also working for the West.

PSS: I am also glad for reunification and think the West had overall the far better system, but such onesided argumentations, which is and was never the reality for the majority of the East Germans I also hate.

There are two great movies for foreigners about this topic:

Das Leben der Anderen - perfect moviemaking - shows the dark side of the GDR - but I think arguments I read like "This is like the GDR realy was" are often also onesided and are made very often by people who also supported George W. Bush. 

Good bye Lenin: - also perfekt moviemaking - some people say it is a comedy -- but in my opionion this film manage to show the GDR far better than the Live of Others -- in this movie, the dark side of the GDR is also shown (that who say different have maybe not seen the movie) but it also shows other aspects -- of lose of identity, of family and so on - also higly recommended.


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Coihaique said:


> @cardiff: Many thanks for your interesting pictures. Over your threads I also discovered the beauty of the UK and I hope to make a longer holiday there soon.
> 
> PS: Sorry for my not so good English, but I was educated in the GDR. But you can be assured that I am strong in other fields. I am working as engineer for a East German company, owned by a West German company, and we are making more profit than our West German sister company, but unfortunately statistically I am also working for the West.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I guess there are still alot of wounds to heal, and understanding as well. Reading between the lines i can see that maybe east Germans are upset in their lives being deemed sub standard by west Germans, and some how implied that they were worse or less significant somehow, however unintentional it may be. I may be wrong on this? 
Glad you had a chance to look through my UK thread and its links, i love the UK and there are some truely spectacular places as there is across the whole of Europe adn teh world. I'm looking forward to my trip in August to the east of England.


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Just an update, i will be posting Dresden pics in 3 days time hopefully for those bored of Berlin

Anyway back onto some sunset and night pics


P5173394 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5173395 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5173397 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Loved these lamp post on Unter Den Linden, something so functional yet a piece of art


P5173399 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5173400 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5173405 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5173413 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5173418 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5173416 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5173423 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

This is actually 4 pictures stitched together


P5173427 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## the man from k-town (Sep 8, 2008)

another great post! thanks


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## Odoaker (May 22, 2011)

Nice! Just wish the Berliner Dom would get its original design back...










http://www.deutsches-architektur-forum.de/forum/showthread.php?t=85&page=5


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## Jugendstil (Jun 29, 2012)

*Wow great pictures! **What for a camera do you use? *

*The night shots look really interesting!*


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## Linguine (Aug 10, 2009)

thanks for the awesome photos...:cheers:


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## Godius (Aug 31, 2011)

Great updates, what kind of camera do you use?


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## Avalanix (Aug 5, 2007)

1. First of all the GDR system collapsed because it was bankrupt.
2. Stanislaw Tillich is Saxonian so I was referring to Saxony as well.
3. In fact I did an internship at our local city council. These guys are as thick as thieves would never hire someone from the west.
4. About the factories which were "up to date" when I take your statement seriously.


Just compare those images.
East Trabant
You had to wait about 15 years to get one by the way.








http://www.stag-budapest.com/images/katakt/trabant1(1).jpg

West BMW 1989

Neonazis in the GDR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByywkX2xIuc








http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg514/scaled.php?server=514&filename=img8199eo6.jpg&res=landing


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## Wunderknabe (Jun 29, 2010)

Dude, stop twisting around this damn east/west topic over and over again. Start another thread if you feel the need to talk about it.

cardiff: not bored at all, keep going


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## Avalanix (Aug 5, 2007)

Hey Hey I'm not the one who started flaming here.
Instead you should rather shut up and say that to the right guys!


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

the man from k-town said:


> another great post! thanks



Thanks!



Odoaker said:


> Nice! Just wish the Berliner Dom would get its original design back...
> 
> http://www.deutsches-architektur-forum.de/forum/showthread.php?t=85&page=5


I'm sure once the Palace is complete there will be the impetus to do something, though I think i'm very British in that i would see it as an opertunity to do something modern rather than just re-create the old.



Godius said:


> Great updates, what kind of camera do you use?





Jugendstil said:


> *Wow great pictures! **What for a camera do you use? *
> 
> *The night shots look really interesting!*


Thanks! Mostly taken on my Olympus Pen



Linguine said:


> thanks for the awesome photos...:cheers:


Thank you



Wunderknabe said:


> cardiff: not bored at all, keep going


Thanks


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5183434 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5183435 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5183437 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5183439 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Back into the recreated medieval area


P5183445 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5183447 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5183448 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5183450 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5183452 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## Tiaren (Jan 29, 2006)

You really liked the Cathedral, right? So many pics of it. XD


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## mlm (Sep 11, 2002)

Thank you for the thread, I really enjoyed browsing it. Many great photos kay:

I also love Germany and it's big cities, and like you, I have also visited and photographed severel myself. 

Looking forward to the next bunch....


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Tiaren said:


> You really liked the Cathedral, right? So many pics of it. XD


It made up most of the view from my hotel room so i couldnt miss it!



mlm said:


> Thank you for the thread, I really enjoyed browsing it. Many great photos kay:
> 
> I also love Germany and it's big cities, and like you, I have also visited and photographed severel myself.
> 
> Looking forward to the next bunch....


Thanks, Some great cities in Germany!


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Really loved the massing on these apartments


P5183453 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5183455 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5183456 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Lots of al fresco dining, again adding tot he holiday feel


P5183562 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5183563 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5183564 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5183566 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5183571 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Pleasure boat heading to the palace outside town, was cool hearing them toot their horns from my room


P5183576 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Much quieter once the day tourists had gone home


P5183577 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5183578 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5183579 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Lovely sunset


P5183580 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5183583 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

My hotel


P5183587 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5183591 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5183609 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5183610 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5183612 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5183614 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5183615 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## Tiaren (Jan 29, 2006)

Gorgeous city and great photography!


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## Wunderknabe (Jun 29, 2010)

I was in Dresden 10 years ago. Hard to believe how much it has changed.

Good work of photographing, cardiff, and yet again you always seem to be blessed with perfect conditions. Great view, this thread


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Tiaren said:


> Gorgeous city and great photography!


Thanks



Wunderknabe said:


> I was in Dresden 10 years ago. Hard to believe how much it has changed.
> 
> Good work of photographing, cardiff, and yet again you always seem to be blessed with perfect conditions. Great view, this thread


I'm sure alot of places have changed in the last 10 years, but i wonder how many for the better as in Dresden. Thanks, i always have a holiday in May as its nearly always nice weather in northern Europe (in fact its only one of 3 months in the UK we get great weather).


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Waking up to the sound of the birds, fountain and steam ships was magical. To be so close the center of a city and to be so peaceful and relaxed gave Dresden a really nice atmosphere


P5193621 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5193627 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5193628 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5193630 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5193631 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

I liked this piece of sculpture re-creating a famous painting 


P5193635 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5193637 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Larger Pano >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


P5193637 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

The frauenkirche where i was headed before the crowds


P5193643 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5193644 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5193648 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Reminds me of a church in Leeds


P5193650 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5193649 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Beautiful


P5193653 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5193655 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5193660 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5193661 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

This picture reminds me of a similar one i took in Istanbul


P5193662 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Beautiful views and the weather really started to get hot! Was quite disconcerting climbing to the top of the dome as you walk litterally on top of it as the walkway spirals around, and gets narrower and the roof comes in on you. 


P5193665 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

You can see the architecture gets prgressively worse the further you look, also i think you can tell historical buildings by the fact they are blackened by the firestorms. While it was a massive event for the city, there wasnt really any memorial or museum to the devestation (not one i noticed)? In a way it probably made the place feel more friendly and relaxed, but it did fell a bit like it was brushed aside as a too painful memory to be dealt with yet.


P5193668 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## Dr.Seltsam (May 28, 2008)

cardiff said:


> Was quite disconcerting climbing to the top of the dome as you walk litterally on top of it as the walkway spirals around, and gets narrower and the roof comes in on you.


Would you say this experience is worth 8 €uros?
I think this is ridiculous expensive.
Really beautiful photos by the way!!!

The buildings are not blackened because of any firestorms but because of the typical regional sandstone.


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## Tiaren (Jan 29, 2006)

Great pictures again!  
By the way, the buildings aren't black because of the firestorm, but due to oxidation of the special saxon sandstone, that they are build of.
Buildings like the Hofkirche (which reminded you of a church in Leeds) and the Semper Opera had to be partly rebuild, with some completely new stonework and now, after just 30-40 years, they already turned black.
Frauenkirche already black befor the War:


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

Dresden looks small but spectacular. Great photos!!


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Dr.Seltsam said:


> Would you say this experience is worth 8 €uros?
> I think this is ridiculous expensive.
> Really beautiful photos by the way!!!
> 
> The buildings are not blackened because of any firestorms but because of the typical regional sandstone.


Thanks, I wouldnt say it was worth 8euros simply because there are other observation points around the city for cheaper, and also like going up the Empire state building in new york, you are in the thing you most want a view of, and therefore are better off going up the palace tower or to keep the analogy going top of the rock in new york. 



Tiaren said:


> Great pictures again!
> By the way, the buildings aren't black because of the firestorm, but due to oxidation of the special saxon sandstone, that they are build of.
> Buildings like the Hofkirche (which reminded you of a church in Leeds) and the Semper Opera had to be partly rebuild, with some completely new stonework and now, after just 30-40 years, they already turned black.
> Frauenkirche already black befor the War:


Thanks both for that info



600West218 said:


> Dresden looks small but spectacular. Great photos!!


Its not a big city center but its not that small, there is plenty to see both sides of the river and i only really dipped my toe into what was on offer.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

Great atmosphere!!


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Thanks


P5193787 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5193786 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

A group of choral singers started up, was spontaneous i think and quite nice to listen to


P5193789 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5193792 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5193796 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5193798 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

There were ducklings on the water


P5193807 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5193810 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Market square


P5193811 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## phoenixboi08 (Dec 6, 2009)

A lot of the architecture reminds me of Italian styles...
I don't know much about it, but what would we call this architectural style?


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## Dr.Seltsam (May 28, 2008)

phoenixboi08 said:


> I don't know much about it, but what would we call this architectural style?


It's definitely Baroque style.


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## phoenixboi08 (Dec 6, 2009)

Dr.Seltsam said:


> It's definitely Baroque style.


Thanks. That's what came to mind, but I wasn't sure...I've never really seen many examples of this (since I live in the US )


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Baroque is very beautiful, but can become overly fussy and a real nightmare on the eyes when overdone. Luckily the style is quite expensive and therefore limited to key buildings, though i believe Dresden had alot of these buildings before the war, and looking through the Dresden reconstruction thread a few of them were spectacular and some can only be described as vulgar!


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Heres the may pole, do they dance around it with the ribbons like in the UK?


P5193813 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Heading towards a modern shopping mall, i didnt take any pics of it as it was a bit anodyne and bland


P5193815 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5193816 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5193817 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5193821 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

I noticed how very little traffic there was in the city center


P5193823 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5193828 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5193830 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5193835 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## Xorcist (Jun 18, 2006)

cardiff said:


> Heres the may pole, do they dance around it with the ribbons like in the UK?


They do, but usually in small towns or villages in more rural areas (BAVARIA!!!!), not in the big cities (it´s a bit old fashioned to dance around it) ... just have a look at "Maibaum" (in english)  .Till now i always thought it is a more South German and Austrian tradition but nice to hear, that they even have them in the UK... i was born in Baden-Württemberg, near the swiss border and it was tradition to put a small maypole on the roof of the house where your secret love lives...I don´t know if that is still practiced (i never did)...i guess not (just asked my 19years old sister...she laughed...)


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

The May pole and Morris dancers are a very traditional southern English thing (not really seen in other countries of the UK or the north from my experiance). Seriously check out morris dancers if you want a laugh lol!


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5193838 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5193842 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5193844 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5193849 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5193852 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5193855 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5193857 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5193863 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5193869 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## MattN (Oct 25, 2008)

cardiff said:


> The May pole and Morris dancers are a very traditional southern English thing (not really seen in other countries of the UK or the north from my experiance). Seriously check out morris dancers if you want a laugh lol!


Apart from Barwick (-in-Elmet, just outside Leeds). Strangely enough I can't remember having seen another maypole in my life, though I probably have.


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## Andre_idol (Aug 6, 2008)

Beautiful photos


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## Avalanix (Aug 5, 2007)

Fantastic !


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

Indeed great updates from Germany :cheers:


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Catching the train


P5204040 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5204041 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5204042 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## Aranou (Apr 29, 2009)

Cardiff, again, wonderful thread. Fantastic. :applause: 
Thank you so much for sharing the trip and the pictures.
Berlin is not a wonderful city as Prague, Rome, Paris or Vienna. But it has a soul, different from everything we have seen before. It is a kind of feeling, a mixture of contemporary architecture and Germany with the Berlin of the 30's although destroyed and the 60-70's when it was divided in two blocks, as the whole world. 
Strong personality for that reason that, as you pointed out in a comment, leads you into strong feelings.


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## Wunderknabe (Jun 29, 2010)

You depicted Hamburg, Berlin and Dresden so well!

So I'm more than looking forward for Nürnberg


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Aranou said:


> Cardiff, again, wonderful thread. Fantastic. :applause:
> Thank you so much for sharing the trip and the pictures.
> Berlin is not a wonderful city as Prague, Rome, Paris or Vienna. But it has a soul, different from everything we have seen before. It is a kind of feeling, a mixture of contemporary architecture and Germany with the Berlin of the 30's although destroyed and the 60-70's when it was divided in two blocks, as the whole world.
> Strong personality for that reason that, as you pointed out in a comment, leads you into strong feelings.


Thanks makes it worth while uploading pictures, Berlin definately has parts as wonderful as Paris and London, but not as consitently or as diverse. Im sure there is understanding on both sides of that argument, unfortunately pride leeds us all into arguments and untruths.



Wunderknabe said:


> You depicted Hamburg, Berlin and Dresden so well!
> 
> So I'm more than looking forward for Nürnberg


Thanks, funny you should say you are looking forwards to Nürnberg! you will see


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

So next stop was Nürnberg, the only thing i knew about the place was that it held important trials and it had the artist Durers house and some pretty waterways. On the whole Nürnberg was probably the worst place i visted on my trip (though not a horrible place), but this was because i had a very poor start to my visit! Firstly my partners suit case broke which meant i had to drag it with a broken wheel past the drunks and homless outside the very grand and busy train station, secondly we checked into one of the worst hotels i have ever seen and had to walk out to the Ibis down the road, which after the beauty of our hotel room in Dresden was such a HUGE come down! AND the weather was overcast for the first and only time.
I should probably go back to Nürnberg as it was pleasant in parts (mostly the places in my pictures), but alot of the rebuilt buildings were quite bland and cheap looking compared to surviving buildings, or fully restored ones. Additionally my review of the hotel we walked out of, and their rediculous reply seems to be trending on Tripadvisor.com. On to pictures:

Probably the prettiest stretch of buildings in the city, though alot of drunks were about. it was the first time i noticed couples of men just sitting and drinking in the streets together out of cans or bottles. In the UK this is illegal unless you are sitting in an open air bar area on the streets, and while im sure they wernt all homless it gave a very negative impression.


P5204049 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5204051 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5204053 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5204054 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

I think this was the city hall


P5204057 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5204059 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5204060 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Up near the castle


P5204061 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Durers house


P5204063 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## Avalanix (Aug 5, 2007)

> So next stop was Nürnberg, the only thing i knew about the place was that it held important trials and it had the artist Durers house and some pretty waterways. On the whole Nürnberg was probably the worst place i visted on my trip (though not a horrible place), but this was because i had a very poor start to my visit! Firstly my partners suit case broke which meant i had to drag it with a broken wheel past the drunks and homless outside the very grand and busy train station, secondly we checked into one of the worst hotels i have ever seen and had to walk out to the Ibis down the road, which after the beauty of our hotel room in Dresden was such a HUGE come down! AND the weather was overcast for the first and only time.
> I should probably go back to Nürnberg as it was pleasant in parts (mostly the places in my pictures), but alot of the rebuilt buildings were quite bland and cheap looking compared to surviving buildings, or fully restored ones. Additionally my review of the hotel we walked out of, and their rediculous reply seems to be trending on Tripadvisor.com. On to pictures:
> 
> Probably the prettiest stretch of buildings in the city, though alot of drunks were about. it was the first time i noticed couples of men just sitting and drinking in the streets together out of cans or bottles. In the UK this is illegal unless you are sitting in an open air bar area on the streets, and while im sure they wernt all homless it gave a very negative impression.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Great joke!
Drunks in Nuremberg :lol:

Dude Nuremberg is just one of the most beautiful cities in Germany. This is the medieval in Germany. And the photos from others proof it. 
Dresden has one place that is filled with old buildings and that's it. The rest are former GDR buildings that are rather bad maintained when compared to Nuremberg.
It really caughts my intention that you are talking so bad about Nuremberg. I don't know someone who was dissappointed from it. (unlike to dresden)
The chance you will see someone drunk in Dresden is 10 times higher than in Nuremberg since the bavarians have a much stricter alcohol prohibition.
I don't think the police would allow something like that since Nürnberg has many visitors and tourists.


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

So whats wrong with drinking beer in the streets? Do it all the time.


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## Bavarian Angelshark (Nov 27, 2007)

Avalanix said:


> Dude Nuremberg is just one of the most beautiful cities in Germany.


Nürnberg *WAS *one of the most beautiful cities in Germany. I think cardiff described it the right way. Nürnberg offers a few nice streets, a nice castle and some impressive churches + great city walls, but there's *too much post war crap* in the city center. 90% of the post war buildings are absolutely horrible (just look at the Hauptmarkt - ugly facades, ugly windows). Imo Nürnberg should look at Frankfurt/Hildesheim and reconstruct some half timbered houses. If you want too see the medieval Germany you should visit Regensburg, Erfurt, Quedlinburg, Bamberg, Rothenburg...

Look at some pre war pictures of Nürnberg - almost everything is gone!


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## Odoaker (May 22, 2011)

In memorandum










http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...uer_002.jpg/800px-Nürnberg_Stadtmauer_002.jpg










:troll:


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## vitaniya (Jun 12, 2012)

Beautiful!impressive!


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## StoneRose (Sep 13, 2004)

cardiff said:


> Probably the prettiest stretch of buildings in the city, though alot of drunks were about. it was the first time i noticed couples of men just sitting and drinking in the streets together out of cans or bottles. In the UK this is illegal unless you are sitting in an open air bar area on the streets, and while im sure they wernt all homless it gave a very negative impression.



Huh??
When I was in Birmingham I saw lots of what I'd call antisocial white trash with pitbulls sitting in the city center drinking and I didn't see any police about.
I even had to laugh because I told my friend "Hmm, looks just like "Schwarzer Bär" which is a shitty are here in Hannover).


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Avalanix said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Great joke!
> Drunks in Nuremberg :lol:
> ...





Bavarian Angelshark said:


> Nürnberg *WAS *one of the most beautiful cities in Germany. I think cardiff described it the right way. Nürnberg offers a few nice streets, a nice castle and some impressive churches + great city walls, but there's *too much post war crap* in the city center. 90% of the post war buildings are absolutely horrible (just look at the Hauptmarkt - ugly facades, ugly windows). Imo Nürnberg should look at Frankfurt/Hildesheim and reconstruct some half timbered houses. If you want too see the medieval Germany you should visit Regensburg, Erfurt, Quedlinburg, Bamberg, Rothenburg...
> 
> Look at some pre war pictures of Nürnberg - almost everything is gone!


I could see that there were many pretty areas of Nürnberg, but there really was some truely poor infill of buildings obviously destroyed in the war or by post war planners. I wouldnt call Nürnberg an ugly city at all, just the mix of such a bad start to my arrival in the city combined with poor weather gave such a negative impression of the place. I cant state highly enough that it was this first impression that gave me such a bad mood towards the place, and it was mostly my own feelings after coming from blue skys and a fantastic hotel in Dresden to an Ibis in Nürnberg, maybe this will show you the comparison:

My room in Dresden


P5193623 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

The hotel we walked out of in Nurnberg


P5204043 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

The ibis we stayed at


P5204090 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr



goschio said:


> So whats wrong with drinking beer in the streets? Do it all the time.





StoneRose said:


> Huh??
> When I was in Birmingham I saw lots of what I'd call antisocial white trash with pitbulls sitting in the city center drinking and I didn't see any police about.
> I even had to laugh because I told my friend "Hmm, looks just like "Schwarzer Bär" which is a shitty are here in Hannover).


I'm not sayign it doesnt happen in the UK, but ive never seen decently dressed men around 20 years old, sitting on the main shopping street drinking out of cans of beer. In the Uk you would generally see them sitting outside a bar or restuarant drinking, the people i saw in Nurnberg and Munich were just sat on benches and walls drinking. Added to the homeless people and alcoholics outside the station gave a bad impression of the social makeup of Nurnberg and was the only time i felt uncomfortable in Germany (i almost felt unsafe). I'm sure its not like all the time as the next day was much better, and if you stay around stations then you are going to generally not be in the nicest area.



vitaniya said:


> Beautiful!impressive!


Thanks!


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

City walls, were very impressive in scale, seemed to stop the city dead though didint explore beyond them


P5204064 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5204066 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5204067 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5204068 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5204069 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Pretty


P5204070 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5204071 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Probably the best thing about Nurnberg is the waterways


P5204072 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5204074 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## 600West218 (Aug 30, 2010)

I don't think people should really be critiqueing what Cardiff says were his impression. This is a trip report and he saw what he saw and felt what he felt. That is what trip reports are about.

I don't think he is trying to make blanket statements about places - what he saw could be spot on or it could have been an aberation. And if you think it was an aberation then you can just let us know that, but not imply that somehow he is making stuff up.

Anyways, Cardiff, thanks for this excellent trip report. You are really changing my image of Germany. I always though of it as a very interesting place, but not necessarily a beautiful one. But through your pictures I am now realizing it most definitely is beautiful. Without a doubt your trip report will be consulted by me before I plan my trip to Germany.

Keep up the good work and I'm looking forward to the rest.


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## StoneRose (Sep 13, 2004)

600West218 said:


> I don't think people should really be critiqueing what Cardiff says were his impression. This is a trip report and he saw what he saw and felt what he felt. That is what trip reports are about.
> 
> I don't think he is trying to make blanket statements about places - what he saw could be spot on or it could have been an aberation. And if you think it was an aberation then you can just let us know that, but not imply that somehow he is making stuff up.


Totally agree!


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## Avalanix (Aug 5, 2007)

Thank you for your beautiful pictures cardiff!


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## yubnub (May 3, 2010)

fantastic pictures of the castle but I liked your pictures of the lakes and mountains more  I visited some years ago when it was totally covered in scaffolding so I climbed the mountain trails on the other side of the bridge which was awesome. If you walk high enough you eventually get a nice view looking down on the castle and it does look best from a distance.


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## elnorteño (Mar 25, 2012)

Offspring said:


> The castle surrounded by mountains, forests and lakes... Like in fairy tale!


..falta el principe azul y la princesa encantada que lindo!:cheers:


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## Letniczka (Feb 4, 2007)

JValjean said:


> I totally understand the point of "AnOldBlackMarble" and I think that especially the Italians are doing a way better job by authentic restaurations than the Germans use to do!


Your statement is the most ridiculous on this by far. :lol:
What they do is even an AUTHENTIC RESTAURATION.
What should they do? Make it 500 years older, for Japanese tourists, or what ?

I don't think we like this object very much, since we have round 13 thousands other castles, palaces & ruins.


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## Nababesco (Jan 5, 2012)

* Germany is the most beautiful country in the world. It is incomparable. *

:applause:


*Ich liebe Deutschland!!!* m))


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

goschio said:


> The point is Neuschwanstein is not some kind of medieval castle ruin that should be left alone. Its a modern dream palace of a maniac aristocrat. When it was built there was already electric light and railroads. Its a modern building of the industrial age.
> 
> And yes, when it was built it was completely out of its time. Some kind of 19th century kitsch Disney style castle.


Exactly. This building in its days was the most modern building in the whole kingdom, although it doesn't look like that. It used state-of-the-art techniques (e.g. a cast iron structure for the throne hall) and had the most advanced technology (the first phone line in Bavaria, an electric system to call servants, automatic toilets, an automatic oven, central heating, etc.).
The whole thing basicaly is a coulisse, not a castle. So an authentic renovation has to look a bit like Disney castle.


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## Nababesco (Jan 5, 2012)

* Berlin under the Nazi regime *


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Scrapernab2 said:


> Wow, I've been on that bridge when there were so many people, you could not make your way to the other side.


Cool! It was scary enough with a couple of people on it!



friedemann said:


> Totally awesome, this thread! If you're planning to visit Germany once again, don't miss the Mosel Valley or the Black Forest :colgate:


Thanks, sure will!



AnOldBlackMarble said:


> Hmmm, don't like it. It's too clean. It looks plastic. Where's the weathering, the age, the old world rusticness? I think the Germans are going a little overboard with the renovating. A little age, a few rough edges, weather spots, give a castle its character, otherwise it is just another plastic Disney attraction.





SBYcity said:


> As a matter of fact the castle itself is not so old as you imagine, it was built in the 15-16 century CMIIW. A little bit of renovation makes it look wholo new :lol:
> And disney's sleeping beauty castle is modelled after this castle too
> 
> @ Cardiff : I really enjoy your thread, great photos





JValjean said:


> I totally understand the point of "AnOldBlackMarble" and I think that especially the Italians are doing a way better job by authentic restaurations than the Germans use to do!
> 
> Anyway Neuschwanstein will always be a bit of a Disneyland castle...





goschio said:


> The point is Neuschwanstein is not some kind of medieval castle ruin that should be left alone. Its a modern dream palace of a maniac aristocrat. When it was built there was already electric light and railroads. Its a modern building of the industrial age.
> 
> And yes, when it was built it was completely out of its time. Some kind of 19th century kitsch Disney style castle.





thun said:


> Exactly. This building in its days was the most modern building in the whole kingdom, although it doesn't look like that. It used state-of-the-art techniques (e.g. a cast iron structure for the throne hall) and had the most advanced technology (the first phone line in Bavaria, an electric system to call servants, automatic toilets, an automatic oven, central heating, etc.).
> The whole thing basicaly is a coulisse, not a castle. So an authentic renovation has to look a bit like Disney castle.


Think youve all answered yourselves. IMO its not Disney but a product of its time, there are many fantasy castle around northern europe, especially in the UK that have either been extended in to fabulous homes or completely transformed during the industrial revolution, especially as Neo Gothic was such a popular style during that period. As for renovation being better in different countries it is totaly subjective as from what ive seen in Italy its about the externality only, scratch a little deeper and you have modern materials and modern building techniques, in the UK it more about everything being authentic, even materials etc, but then there is more modern designs attached to old structures as long as they are distinctly different. Not sure what the stance is in Germany? Not saying one is better than the other, but each has its own positives and negatives, as is each individual renovation.



Offspring said:


> The castle surrounded by mountains, forests and lakes... Like in fairy tale!


It really is, and probably where the ideal fairy tales comes from



yubnub said:


> fantastic pictures of the castle but I liked your pictures of the lakes and mountains more  I visited some years ago when it was totally covered in scaffolding so I climbed the mountain trails on the other side of the bridge which was awesome. If you walk high enough you eventually get a nice view looking down on the castle and it does look best from a distance.


Thanks, the countryside is what takes your breath away more, really beautiful!



Nababesco said:


> * Germany is the most beautiful country in the world. It is incomparable. *
> 
> :applause:
> 
> ...


Definately beautiful, but one of hundreds of beautiful countries in the world!


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Next we arrived in Munich, it was very obvious that this was a large city with a distinct attitude from the start. We stayed near the train station, next to a lap dancing club! I think from now on i will not stay anywhere near train stations again, as although the hotel wasnt awful, it wasnt that great with a receptionist desperately trying to get us to upgrade (which we did but later complained about many things and got the upgrade free). First impressions of Munich were that it was gritty and very busy, eventually after exploring more i saw the other side which was very beautiful in places and quite relaxed. What struck me most about Munich was how American it was, almost every other accent was American, the feel was very north american, and even the fashion had that very pretentious new york 5th avenue feel. It was definately very different to the rest of Germany i had seen, and felt far more confident and assertive. The weather wasnt too great on the first day, but soon became scorching!

One thing i noticed alot in Munich was how alot of the buildings didnt seem to feel either old or modern, but somewhere in between.


P5224372 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5224374 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5224375 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5234385 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234387 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234389 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5224380 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234383 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

While walking back to my hotel there was a homless man in his boxers and a t shirt in this fountain doing stretches, lets just say the combination of water and white thin clothing left nothing to the imagination, much to everyones hilarity and disust! I'm sure he must have known what he was doing!


P5234386 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

edit


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## Linguine (Aug 10, 2009)

splendid photos from Germany...:cheers2:


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Thanks!


P5234390 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Main shopping street seemed to have a couiple of carbuncles, luckily there seemed to be some new construction replacing them. interestingly these new construction sites showed the history of what was on the site, something i found fascinating and brought other people to see what was happening. Also i remember when C&A used to be in the UK!


P5234391 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

TALL


P5234393 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

This white building especially seemed quite kitsch in its reconstruction, looked too perfect to be historic


P5234394 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

City hall


P5234395 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

At this point after climbing so many steps to high observation points, we said that this would be the last!


P5234397 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5234402 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234403 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

A Pano


P5234404 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## Wunderknabe (Jun 29, 2010)

Great view, I guess it was worth the stairs?


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## Chadoh25 (Dec 28, 2007)

Great photos!


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

I'm surprised to hear that you think that Munich is North American in style. I really disagree on this point, though I agree that it is very, very different to the rest of Germany. 

Excellent photos all the same. I've enjoyed this whole journey.


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## hmueller2 (Feb 3, 2009)

In Germany we say "München: das größte Dorf der Welt" (Munich: the largest village in the world) :lol:


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## Bavarian Angelshark (Nov 27, 2007)

^^ says someone from Frankfurt :lol:


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

Why people call Munich "The largest village in the world"?


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## hmueller2 (Feb 3, 2009)

Well Frankfurt has only 700k inhabitants while Munich has 1.4 million 
I just think that Munich, compared to other cities of that size (Hamburg, Vienna etc.) is rather provincial, besides the tourists.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing, in fact I like Munich and the whole surrounding.

As Svartmetall said, Munich is just completely different than the rest of Germany.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

What do you mean by "provincial"?


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## hmueller2 (Feb 3, 2009)

Provincial in a few ways:

Bavarians a usually conservative, Catholic and very focused on tradition. Although Munich is more liberal than the rest of Bavaria.
The "real Münchener" , who were born there are very proud of their city. Being a hardcore Bayern München fan, going to the Oktoberfest in "Trachten" and drinking a lot of Bavarian Beer is the standard. This of course unites the people or generates some kind of a community you usually don't have in megacities.

Munich is also called "Schickeria" in Germany (schick=fancy, chic) because of the relatively large group of affluent Bavarians who like to party, go shopping or skiing in Kitzbühel. :lol:
Kitzbühel is a VIP ski resort in Austria (like Aspen), 1h drive away from Munich and therefore called "Hausberg der Münchener" (backyard mountain of the Munich inhabitants). During Winter you will see a lot of Porsches and BMW's in Kitzbühel with an "M" licence plate.


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## JValjean (Oct 15, 2009)

cardiff said:


> This white building especially seemed quite kitsch in its reconstruction, looked too perfect to be historic


This is an example of what I tried to point out in a previous post. Restorations in Germany are too often executed much too sterile. I'm German/Bavarian myself and in my hometown this building was renovated 10 years ago:










The brickwork was completely plastered and the interstices were only painted on the plastering. I think it's the same with the white building in Munich.

Anyway I disagree with the statement that Munich is totally different to the rest of Germany. After all it's the Bavarian capital and therefore there are several Bavarian cities where you can find similarities in terms of historical architecture: e.g. Passau, Landshut, Regensburg ...


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## Avalanix (Aug 5, 2007)

> First impressions of Munich were that it was gritty and very busy, eventually after exploring more i saw the other side which was very beautiful in places and quite relaxed. What struck me most about Munich was how American it was, almost every other accent was American, the feel was very north american, and even the fashion had that very pretentious new york 5th avenue feel. It was definately very different to the rest of Germany i had seen, and felt far more confident and assertive. The weather wasnt too great on the first day, but soon became scorching!


Totally Agreed.
I mean look at it: everywhere skyscrapers and traffic streets+traffic jams in the city.
Zero histortical buildings and absolutely gritty.
Hail this thoroughly AMERICAN city.
And dude you really have to search for beauty in this town. Luckily you did and found the OTHER side of Munich which was just nearly half as nice as Dresden or Berlin.


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## JValjean (Oct 15, 2009)

The notorious Avalanix as we know him ...

Just for clarification: I like German cities with historical city core and I do like the cities shown in this thread. Some more some less and I'm waiting for a conclusion by cardiff about the different places that he saw!

It's a fine thread this one anyway!


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## Skrapebook (May 7, 2010)

I love german thoroughness! kay:
South european run down ruins suck a**! :lol:


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

hmueller2 said:


> Provincial in a few ways:
> 
> Bavarians a usually conservative, Catholic and very focused on tradition. Although Munich is more liberal than the rest of Bavaria.
> The "real Münchener" , who were born there are very proud of their city. Being a hardcore Bayern München fan, going to the Oktoberfest in "Trachten" and drinking a lot of Bavarian Beer is the standard. This of course unites the people or generates some kind of a community you usually don't have in megacities.
> ...


Explains the high end fashion i saw! 



JValjean said:


> This is an example of what I tried to point out in a previous post. Restorations in Germany are too often executed much too sterile. I'm German/Bavarian myself and in my hometown this building was renovated 10 years ago:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe German ideals on renovation is to make it look brand new? I guess Munich refelcts its region in the same way any other regional capital does.



Avalanix said:


> Totally Agreed.
> I mean look at it: everywhere skyscrapers and traffic streets+traffic jams in the city.
> Zero histortical buildings and absolutely gritty.
> Hail this thoroughly AMERICAN city.
> And dude you really have to search for beauty in this town. Luckily you did and found the OTHER side of Munich which was just nearly half as nice as Dresden or Berlin.


I think you need a trip to north America! The streetscape and feel felt very similar to the nicest, less dense areas of north american cities like new york, toronto and chicago., the architecture was very different (though not as different as you would expect). If you wander around the train station then you can hardly call munich beautiful, walk past that large fountain and you discover it is a beautiful city. 



JValjean said:


> The notorious Avalanix as we know him ...
> 
> Just for clarification: I like German cities with historical city core and I do like the cities shown in this thread. Some more some less and I'm waiting for a conclusion by cardiff about the different places that he saw!
> 
> It's a fine thread this one anyway!


Thanks!



Skrapebook said:


> I love german thoroughness! kay:
> South european run down ruins suck a**! :lol:


i like a mixture of both 



Wunderknabe said:


> Great view, I guess it was worth the stairs?


it was but we must have climbed at least 15 towers across Germany!



Chadoh25 said:


> Great photos!


Thanks



Svartmetall said:


> I'm surprised to hear that you think that Munich is North American in style. I really disagree on this point, though I agree that it is very, very different to the rest of Germany.
> 
> Excellent photos all the same. I've enjoyed this whole journey.


like i said above, not north american downtown, but similar to many areas in north american cities where there are typically restaurants and less dense areas. There was just more a feeling of being in north america than europe.


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5234409 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234410 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234411 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5234413 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234414 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234418 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5234417 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234416 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5234419 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234420 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234421 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

cardiff said:


> This white building especially seemed quite kitsch in its reconstruction, looked too perfect to be historic


It actually is a reconstruction (the building from the 50ies, the tower from the 70ies) of the old gothic town hall from the 15th century which used to be redesigned in baroque and neogothic styles during its history untill it finally got destroyed in WWII.


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## Filandon (Jun 24, 2009)

Skrapebook said:


> I love german thoroughness! kay:
> South european run down ruins suck a**! :lol:


Somehow I felt so sorry for you, I did not expect to find such an stupid statement... As a Southern European I advise you to travel a bit a more, there´s life out there and not only ruins, (which has an enormous value anyway no matter how ignorant someone can be not to appreciate them).

I really like Germany, and this thread is a good example of the wonders you can find travelling it,

Bravo Cardiff :applause:


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## Chadoh25 (Dec 28, 2007)

Lovely photos! Well done!


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

thun said:


> It actually is a reconstruction (the building from the 50ies, the tower from the 70ies) of the old gothic town hall from the 15th century which used to be redesigned in baroque and neogothic styles during its history untill it finally got destroyed in WWII.


Thanks for the info, i guess German ideals of reconstruction must focus towards making them looking like they are brand new rather than aged?



Filandon said:


> Somehow I felt so sorry for you, I did not expect to find such an stupid statement... As a Southern European I advise you to travel a bit a more, there´s life out there and not only ruins, (which has an enormous value anyway no matter how ignorant someone can be not to appreciate them).
> 
> I really like Germany, and this thread is a good example of the wonders you can find travelling it,
> 
> Bravo Cardiff :applause:


Thanks



Chadoh25 said:


> Lovely photos! Well done!


Thanks


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Sorry for the lack of updates this week as i have been holidaying in the east of England, if you like these pics then check out my UK thread for those pics of Cambridge, Norwich etc.

Anyway the last few sets of pics

Here is the Opera house, i learnt in Neuschwanstein that the king wanted to build a grand opera house similar to Dresden but never got around to it (being so busy building castles and palaces!)


P5234423 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234425 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234426 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Off the square is the palace, which is undergoing renovation. Its an interesting place but obviously completely destroyed in the war, as many rooms are completely empty of furniture and furnishings, and some rooms undecorated. A real shame and a testement to the devestation the city suffered, but also great that the building has been rebuilt with some stunning rooms. Some things havent been rebuilt like the rooftop garden and lake!

Here are the crown jewels of Bavaria (everytime i see another countries crown jewels it always makes me laugh how small they are in comparisson to the UKs or how unrefined they seem, these seemed quite delicate and pretty compared to most).


P5234430 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Many different styles in this palace


P5234431 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Beautiful!


P5234433 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5234438 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234440 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

Not quite sure what this is for? Impressive though


P5234442 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## Letniczka (Feb 4, 2007)

cardiff said:


> i guess German ideals of reconstruction must focus towards making them looking like they are brand new rather than aged?


Unfortunately, Germans are not rich enough to do "aged" renovations every 5 years, like people in other countries usually do. Let us wait how the castle will look like in the year 2076, before the next reconstruction 

Good eye again Stephen!!!


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## Tiaren (Jan 29, 2006)

cardiff said:


> Here are the crown jewels of Bavaria (everytime i see another countries crown jewels it always makes me laugh how small they are in comparisson to the UKs or how unrefined they seem...


Sorry, but here you sound a little conceited...

You should've paid the _Grünes Gewölbe/Green Vault_ in Dresden a visit.
It's the largest treasure collection in all of Europe, one of the most valuable and probably the most impressive (just alone because of the architecture and presentation). Puts pretty much your crown jewels to shame (which I visited in the Tower of London).

Info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grünes_Gewölbe


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## XXX. (Sep 1, 2012)

NICE PICS.


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Tiaren said:


> Sorry, but here you sound a little conceited...
> 
> You should've paid the _Grünes Gewölbe/Green Vault_ in Dresden a visit.
> It's the largest treasure collection in all of Europe, one of the most valuable and probably the most impressive (just alone because of the architecture and presentation). Puts pretty much your crown jewels to shame (which I visited in the Tower of London).
> ...


Yes i guess i did sound conceited, but when the worlds largest diamonds and jewels are attached to numerous crowns etc its hard not to be, also similar collections are in the possesion of the crown are are unfortunately only shown on rare occasions and not in full. I was lucky enough to see the exhibits in Dresden and they were absoulutely fantastic and are spectacular! They are however not crown jewels and are part of a collection made up of donations, comissioned pieces, bought items and presents donated to the Saxonian (have i got the right region?) King. Incidentally there were similar items in the Palace in Munich though the collection was alot smaller though no less impressive. I really recomend anyone visit the collection in Dresden even if you have no interest in these kind of things! Are there German crown jewels or are there just regional ones?


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Letniczka said:


> Unfortunately, Germans are not rich enough to do "aged" renovations every 5 years, like people in other countries usually do. Let us wait how the castle will look like in the year 2076, before the next reconstruction
> 
> Good eye again Stephen!!!


As i said earlier each style of renovation has its own merits and draw backs, i'm not saying one is better than the other


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## JValjean (Oct 15, 2009)

cardiff said:


> Are there German crown jewels or are there just "regional" ones?


What a question! Take a look here: Imperial Regalia



> "The Imperial Regalia, insignia, or crown jewels (in German Reichskleinodien, Reichsinsignien, or Reichsschatz) are the regalia of the Emperors and Kings of the Holy Roman Empire. The most important parts are the Imperial Crown, the Holy Lance and the Imperial Sword. Today they are kept at the Schatzkammer Treasury in the Hofburg palace in Vienna, Austria.
> 
> The Imperial Regalia are the only completely preserved regalia from the Middle Ages ...
> 
> The regalia is composed of two different parts. The greater group are the so-called Nürnberger Kleinodien (roughly translated Nuremberg jewels), named after the town of Nuremberg where the regalia were kept from 1424 to 1796"


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Thanks, i saw those when i was in Vienna!


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

cardiff said:


> Thanks for the info, i guess German ideals of reconstruction must focus towards making them looking like they are brand new rather than aged?


That's true. But I don't understand why one should make a renovation/ reconstruction look aged? Point is to preserve the building for the next few hundred years. The ageing comes automatically after 50 years or so. Adding artificial patina to make it look older would be very, well, fake IMO.


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

I'm not saying its a bad thing or a good thing, i can see where you are coming from and understand about preserving buildings for the future, but i cant help but think that maybe some of its past is lost in this preservation style, and the history of the building is notably lost in its apearance. Also from seeing some reconstructions/renoavations from across the world there is a tendancy to dumb down a design (removal of statues, rendering over details etc.). Also modern paint finnishes or materials sometimes can give a plastic look. I'm not specifically talking about Germany here, but playing a bit of Devils advocate


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5234443 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234445 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234446 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5234448 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

I think it was about this point in my trip that i started to have enough of walking!


P5234450 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234452 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5234453 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234454 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234458 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## Xorcist (Jun 18, 2006)

cardiff said:


> Not quite sure what this is for? Impressive though
> 
> 
> P5234442 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


it is the Feldherrnhalle. It was built between 1841 and 1844 at the southern end of Munich's Ludwigstrasse next to the Palais Preysing and east of the Hofgarten. Previously the Gothic Schwabinger Tor (gate) occupied that place. Friedrich von Gärtner built the Feldherrnhalle at the behest of King Ludwig I of Bavaria after the example of the Loggia dei Lanzi in Florence. The Feldherrnhalle was a symbol of the honours of the Bavarian Army. It contains statues of military leaders Johann Tilly and Karl Philipp von Wrede. The central sculptural group was added in 1882, after the Franco-Prussian War.

On Friday morning, 9 November 1923, the Feldherrnhalle was the scene of a confrontation between the Bavarian State Police and an illegally organized march by the followers of Adolf Hitler. When ordered to stop the marchers continued; the State Police felt threatened and opened fire. Four policemen and sixteen marchers were killed and a number were wounded, including Hermann Göring. As a result, Hitler was arrested and sentenced to a prison term. This was one of the efforts by the Nazis to take over the Bavarian State, commonly referred to as the Beer Hall Putsch. (by Wikipedia)


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Thanks for the info!


P5234459 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234461 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234464 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5234465 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234467 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr

This was cool, unfortunatley this small section was the only part of the English garden i managed to see, but surfing in a city center park on the river is a pretty cool thing i havent seen before, was the water made to go this fast for this purpose or was it someone thinking "i have a good idea!"? 


P5234468 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

This part of the city was definately the relaxed beautiful side i had heared so much about, shame i was was staying in the polar oposite end of town!


P5234469 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234470 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234471 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## Xorcist (Jun 18, 2006)

Yeah but anyway Munich is a nice and livable place. i really like the city, though i live in rival Berlin...i hope you were at BBQ at the beaches of Isar River or at least tried out some of the nice beergardens....even that touristic one at the chinese tower is just loveley  try some good bavarian beer and a brezel, and of course enjoy the lederhosen and the terrible music ))


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

Unfortunately we didnt have time, and had run out of energy


P5234475 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234477 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234479 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5234480 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234482 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234483 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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## cardiff (Jul 26, 2005)

P5234486 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234488 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


P5234491 by stephenanstiss, on Flickr


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