# Will Metro-Miami pass Chicagoland in highrises?



## dave8721 (Aug 5, 2004)

The totals of the Miami and Chicago Metros according to Emporis:

Miami Metro(pop 5,361,723)
Completed: 945
U/C: 130
Approved: 137
Proposed: 88

Total: 1300

Chicago Metro(pop 9,608,458)
Completed: 1145
U/C: 31
Approved: 40
Proposed: 86

Total: 1302

Momentum is on Miami's side. Do you think South Florida will Pass Chicago-land for second most highrises in the U.S.?


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## The Mad Hatter!! (Oct 27, 2004)

in my opinion it can happen but can we sustain it is the question, the problem with our metro area(miami) is that we go on these incredible booms but them go years only getting a few buildingd built,while chicago seems to always be booming.


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## MikeHunt (Nov 28, 2004)

I don't think so. Chicago is one of the top 5 business centers in the US. Miami is not. In this regard, while there are scores of residential towers under construction in Miami, there are practically no offices towers being built. In fact, other than the Espirito Plaza, which is tiny (but stunning), I don't think that any office towers have been built in Miami since the late '80s/early '90s.

That being said, I much prefer Miami to Chicago.


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## NWside (Oct 1, 2003)

Probably, but who cares about highrises in the suburbs, unless they're TOD like in Toronto? It's all about building in the central core of the city.


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## VansTripp (Sep 29, 2004)

I thinks that it will happen.


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## The Mad Hatter!! (Oct 27, 2004)

MikeHunt said:


> I don't think so. Chicago is one of the top 5 business centers in the US. Miami is not. In this regard, while there are scores of residential towers under construction in Miami, there are practically no offices towers being built. In fact, other than the Espirito Plaza, which is tiny (but stunning), I don't think that any office towers have been built in Miami since the late '80s/early '90s.
> 
> That being said, I much prefer Miami to Chicago.


see now why is it that they let uneducated people become members,not to be rude but before you make an outlandish comment maybe you should go and read or do a google search,it'll make sure you don't look like an idiot.
last office tower completed in the miami area was mellon financial.

miami office towers underconstruction,proposed,approved
1001 park west-32 stories
transit village1-17stories
transit village 2- 20+ stories
park place 36 stories
latitude one-23 stories
fortune development-??? 900ft office tower

plus other mixed used office projects
lynx 100,000sqfeet of office space
capital-80,000sq feet 
infinity 2-50,000ft
ten musuem-25,000
cardinal symphony-28,000
600brickell-260,000
900 biscayne 69,000
citicentre 173,000
flatiron-100,000 
riverfront-300,000

in total were in the top 10 for most office space proposed/uc/app


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## dave8721 (Aug 5, 2004)

The Mad Hatter!! said:


> see now why is it that they let uneducated people become members,not to be rude but before you make an outlandish comment maybe you should go and read or do a google search,it'll make sure you don't look like an idiot.
> last office tower completed in the miami area was mellon financial.
> 
> miami office towers underconstruction,proposed,approved
> ...


Plus Coral Gables builds a few 12 to 15 story office buildings every year.


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## streetscapeer (Apr 30, 2004)

NWside said:


> Probably, but who cares about highrises in the suburbs, unless they're TOD like in Toronto? It's all about building in the central core of the city.


Thank you for your enlightening comment. There are no high-rises in the suburbs of Miami, however. Most, if not all, are in the various downtowns located throughout the metro-region, and most are TOD.
The City of Miami itself (pop.~400,000), where at least half of the highrises are proposed and constructed is getting to be very progressive in terms of city-planning, all residential highrise projects, for instance, must be mixed use with either office space or retail space (on the ground floors)!

And please don't bring Toronto into this.


As to which metro area will have the most highrises, I really can't say, everything is too up-in-the-air right now!


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## Landier (Feb 10, 2005)

ha ha ha, he said "up-in-the-air"... funny funny!


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## MikeHunt (Nov 28, 2004)

The Mad Hatter!! said:


> see now why is it that they let uneducated people become members,not to be rude but before you make an outlandish comment maybe you should go and read or do a google search,it'll make sure you don't look like an idiot.
> last office tower completed in the miami area was mellon financial.
> 
> miami office towers underconstruction,proposed,approved
> ...


Amigo:

I graduated from a top 25 university and law school and am a member of Phi Beta Kappa (if you know what that is). I am also an extremely successful attorney in NYC. Which stellar institution did you attend: Florida State, U of M or FAU?

I visit Miami regularly and was even there last week. I don't know about office parks that you're addressing, but on Brickell Avenue and near the Miami Arena (i.e., downtown Miami), I have not seen any office towers under construction. Everything appears to be residential.


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## VansTripp (Sep 29, 2004)

The Mad Hatter!! said:


> see now why is it that they let uneducated people become members,not to be rude but before you make an outlandish comment maybe you should go and read or do a google search,it'll make sure you don't look like an idiot.
> last office tower completed in the miami area was mellon financial.
> 
> miami office towers underconstruction,proposed,approved
> ...


Do u know that land in city proper of Miami is almost run out for more sprawl coming down?


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## Accura4Matalan (Jan 7, 2004)

I hope not. Miami's highrises are rubbish compared to those in Chicago.


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## The Mad Hatter!! (Oct 27, 2004)

MikeHunt said:


> Amigo:
> 
> I graduated from a top 25 university and law school and am a member of Phi Beta Kappa (if you know what that is). I am also an extremely successful attorney in NYC. Which stellar institution did you attend: Florida State, U of M or FAU?
> 
> I visit Miami regularly and was even there last week. I don't know about office parks that you're addressing, but on Brickell Avenue and near the Miami Arena (i.e., downtown Miami), I have not seen any office towers under construction. Everything appears to be residential.



i don't need your credentials ,what you do for a living is your problem not mine.

as to what you said about not seeing any office towers underconstruction,well i guess that strike 2 for you...because lets see we have the federal courthouse,transit village1,and transit village2 all underconstruction less than 3 blocks away from each other all in downtown miami.latitude one is working on its foundation and its not on brickell avenue but its on south miami avenue,which is in brickell village.parkplace2 is the second phase of park place which just got it occupancy license and should start early next year.

also i'd like to add that coral gables which is about 5mins away from downtown miami is becoming miami's second cbd since it recently acquired the hq's of burger king,the regional hq of kraft foods,american airlines,peoplesoft,mastec,kodak,aol latin america and many more.the only thing stopping it from becoming a major skyline is the height limits the city set on itself in order to keep the small town feel.its pretty much a suburban office park on crack,but its not in the suburbs its in the central core.


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## The Boy David (Sep 14, 2004)

In a word: No.

The day Miami surpasses the windy city in the highrise stakes is a dark day indeed.


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## PeterSmith (Jul 6, 2005)

I don't think it will happen. Not now anyway. Perhaps by the end of the century if Miami continues to be the "It" city. But right now Miami just doesn't have the economy to maintain the momentum. I don't think hotels and condos are enough, you need companies and offices. Miami has an EXTREMELY tiny economy for a city its size - Miami metro has a GMP of only $50 billion, give or take. That's not even in the top 20 in the US (and number 20 - Oakland, CA - is double Miami at $100 billion, so you can imagine how many other metros are ahead of Miami). It's possible, but more needs to happen to be able to make a solid claim that it will.


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## PeterSmith (Jul 6, 2005)

Also, I didn't know Coral Gables was headquarters of Burger King. I thought BK moved out of Miami when that Ft. Worth company bought them out. I just assumed it was moved out. If they decided to keep it in Miami that is very noble of them. Kudos.


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## MikeHunt (Nov 28, 2004)

The Mad Hatter!! said:


> i don't need your credentials ,what you do for a living is your problem not mine....


I'll take that to mean that you're economically unsuccessful and attended a lousy university. How many square feet of office space are under construction in downtown Miami? The answer: very, very few compared to NY and Chicago.


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## Bartolo (Sep 20, 2004)

wut does TOD mean exactly


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## WBB (Apr 28, 2005)

Should be more in Miami metro imo!


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## Rx727sfl2002 (Apr 8, 2004)

*Attorney?*

Did someone say they dabble in the law?

well while it may APPEAR as you so stated that miami boom is residential
from what you stated yourself its only your precipitated perception of what the reality is
so it APPEARS to me that the argument has been lost and that miami stands as being number one in construction.

PS miami is only 100 years old and overall it seems its played catchup to alot of cities in 5 short years....


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## DarkFenX (Jan 8, 2005)

Maybe metro but definitely not as a city itself. I don't think any city will surpass Chicago as US's city with the second most skyscraper.


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## Bobdreamz (Sep 12, 2002)

I fail to see what the arguement is concerning what type of highrises are being constucted in Miami to the question posed by the starter of this thread. He asked if the number of highrises in our metro will surpass the amount currently planned, u/c or built and judging by the numbers provided it certainly seems like it for the moment.
Simply because they aren't all office towers should not diminish the fact that greater Miami is a highrise metropolitan area. We all know that Chicago is one of the top business cities in the US and is building office buildings as well yet the majority of it's boom within the last 5 years has consisted of residentials which is also true of the majority of US cities undergoing significant construction lately. Residential buildings add to the skyline and a healthy vibrancy to any city.
Outside of Chicago or NYC what other US city besides Miami (city proper) now has 9 buildings over 500ft./152m U/C ?


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## streetscapeer (Apr 30, 2004)

^thank you


Remember we're talking about *Metro*-Miami and *Metro*-Chicago


For Miami this includes the beaches, Ft Lauderdale(and its beaches, Hollywood and (its beaches), Coral Gables, West Palm Beaches, etc

There are tens of miles and miles of highrises along the coast away from downtown Miami (where the most significant boom is located)


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## PeterSmith (Jul 6, 2005)

The argument I was trying to make is that to me it seems that cities grow by acquiring jobs, which then cause people to move there. To me it seems as though Miami is anticipating a far larger population than it has jobs to accommodate. Where are all the people that will live in these highrises going to work? Perhaps my impression is off, but that is how it appears to me. I guess Miami could surpass Chicago in skyscrapers, but with the current situation, these skyscrapers would either not be filled or they would be filled with unemployed people. Although....I bet there's enough people living underneath I-95 downtown to fill the Empire World Towers. Maybe that's it. Maybe Miami is building luxury high-rise homeless shelters. Seriously though, to me it seems like Projected People > Projected Jobs = Not Good City


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## Effer (Jun 9, 2005)

In another 10 years?


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## streetscapeer (Apr 30, 2004)

PeterSmith said:


> The argument I was trying to make is that to me it seems that cities grow by acquiring jobs, which then cause people to move there. To me it seems as though Miami is anticipating a far larger population than it has jobs to accommodate. Where are all the people that will live in these highrises going to work? Perhaps my impression is off, but that is how it appears to me. I guess Miami could surpass Chicago in skyscrapers, but with the current situation, these skyscrapers would either not be filled or they would be filled with unemployed people. Although....I bet there's enough people living underneath I-95 downtown to fill the Empire World Towers. Maybe that's it. Maybe Miami is building luxury high-rise homeless shelters. Seriously though, to me it seems like Projected People > Projected Jobs = Not Good City



I agree with you completely...I have no idea what function these new high-rises will take within the city!

But this skepticism is not limited to Miami, but includes Chicago and, believe it or not, NY as well!


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## Talbot (Jul 13, 2004)

Bartolo said:


> wut does TOD mean exactly


Transit Oriented Development

And, i dont think that Miami will pass Chicago anytime soon, but you never know what could happen in the future.


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

I think it's really possible. Miami seems to be a highrise type of city to me.


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## Shawn (Nov 12, 2002)

Why a highly successful NYC attorney would feel the need to announce his vaunted status on a skyscraper discussion forum in an attempt to somehow add to his credibility in at argument over Miami skyscrapers is beyond me. Most attorneys that I know have more social tact than that, but hey . . . what do I know, I didn’t graduate from an American Top 25 university or join a prestigious frat. 

It seems perfectly reasonable to me that metro Miami will surpass metro Chicago in terms of skyscrapers, given the number of residential towers under construction in places like Ft. Lauderdale.


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## dave8721 (Aug 5, 2004)

PeterSmith said:


> I don't think it will happen. Not now anyway. Perhaps by the end of the century if Miami continues to be the "It" city. But right now Miami just doesn't have the economy to maintain the momentum. I don't think hotels and condos are enough, you need companies and offices. Miami has an EXTREMELY tiny economy for a city its size - Miami metro has a GMP of only $50 billion, give or take. That's not even in the top 20 in the US (and number 20 - Oakland, CA - is double Miami at $100 billion, so you can imagine how many other metros are ahead of Miami). It's possible, but more needs to happen to be able to make a solid claim that it will.


Metro Miami's GDP was over $120 billion as of 2001, I'm sure its gone up a lot since then since Miami's economy has been booming the last few years while the rest of the U.S. has been stagnant.


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## dave8721 (Aug 5, 2004)

MikeHunt said:


> I'll take that to mean that you're economically unsuccessful and attended a lousy university. How many square feet of office space are under construction in downtown Miami? The answer: very, very few compared to NY and Chicago.


Chicago isn't exactly bursting at the seems with new office towers either. Most of Chicago's new construction is residential too. To answer your question downtown Miami has 5.3 million square feet of office space currently under construction or being developed. Of course thats dwarfed by the 69,000 condo units going up around the downtown area.


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## PeterSmith (Jul 6, 2005)

dave8721 said:


> Metro Miami's GDP was over $120 billion as of 2001, I'm sure its gone up a lot since then since Miami's economy has been booming the last few years while the rest of the U.S. has been stagnant.


I had read different statistics. But my statistics were for GMP, not GDP - I'm not sure of the difference. But the ones I read stated that Miami's GMP was $50 billion, Ft. Lauderdale's was $27.1 billion, and it didn't mention West Palm, but I can't imagine it was that high. Nevertheless, if GMP doesn't refer to the amount of capital that flows through a region's economy in a given year, then I apologize for my error.

(I can't remember where I found the statistics on Miami, but this link lists the nation's top 20 GMPs for 2003 -http://www.gpec.org/infocenter/topics/economy/gmp.html - as you can see, the number 20 has a GMP of $105 billion, and Miami is not in the top 20.)


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## LA1 (Sep 12, 2002)

streetscapeer said:


> I agree with you completely...I have no idea what function these new high-rises will take within the city!
> 
> But this skepticism is not limited to Miami, but includes Chicago and, believe it or not, NY as well!


I have always wondered about this as well. Miami doesn't have the service sector employment of a larger city to fill these condos. Same goes with Las Vegas. Are these going to be nothing but vacation homes/2nd homes in both cities? Is that a good thing? All of these condos being built so someone can visit the city for a 1-2 weeks in a year? That is really no different than a empty building if they can't rent it out.


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## LA1 (Sep 12, 2002)

dave8721 said:


> Chicago isn't exactly bursting at the seems with new office towers either. Most of Chicago's new construction is residential too. To answer your question downtown Miami has 5.3 million square feet of office space currently under construction or being developed. Of course thats dwarfed by the 69,000 condo units going up around the downtown area.


Well, being that downtown Chicago has some 140 million sq ft in downtown (second to Midtown) to Miami's 15-20 million...

Actually, quite a few new office skyscrapers have just been built and a couple more are about to go u.c. I think only Midtown Manhattan has built more office space than downtown Chicago since 2000. Probably some 8-10 million new.


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## Topher1 (Jun 15, 2005)

In response to the original question: Yes, Miami-metro probably will pass Chicagoland in highrises in the coming years.

Will Miami have a better skyline than Chicago? Hell no.

Will Miami's residential skyscrapers be filled? Yes. Eventually. Miami has consistently been one of the fastest growing metros for the last 30 years. Miami is running out of land to sprawl. Does that mean that the hundreds of thousands of people moving to Dade county each decade will suddenly stop coming? No. More people will have to find multi-unit housing to live in. Real-estate prices will slow things, but by no means will the growth stop. The market is just too resilient.

Where will all these people work? As I stated before, Miami's metro has been growing at an astonishing rate for decades. If the millions of people who have come to the area in the last 30 years found employment, I don't see why it will be any different for the people who will occupy the 69,000 new highrise units...

The point is, this isn't new growth. This is the same growth we've been seeing for decades. It's just manifesting itself in a different form (highrises, rather than single-family homes). It's ironic that so many on a skyscraper website are bitter about that.


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## streetscapeer (Apr 30, 2004)

PeterSmith said:


> I had read different statistics. But my statistics were for GMP, not GDP - I'm not sure of the difference. But the ones I read stated that Miami's GMP was $50 billion, Ft. Lauderdale's was $27.1 billion, and it didn't mention West Palm, but I can't imagine it was that high. Nevertheless, if GMP doesn't refer to the amount of capital that flows through a region's economy in a given year, then I apologize for my error.
> 
> (I can't remember where I found the statistics on Miami, but this link lists the nation's top 20 GMPs for 2003 -http://www.gpec.org/infocenter/topics/economy/gmp.html - as you can see, the number 20 has a GMP of $105 billion, and Miami is not in the top 20.)


I think the point dave8721 was trying to make is that you must use the *metro* statistics for GDP because it is metro areas, afterall, that we're comparing here. your figure above (whether GDP or GMP) seems *Not* to be for the Miami metropolitan area.


Do you seriously think that a United States metro area of *5.3 million*, does not even reach the top 20 in GDP stats for the country? Do you really believe that Oakland, CA has a greater GDP than metro-Miami?

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be surprised if Miami had the lowest GDP when compared to metros with similar population (Dallas, Atlanta, Houston) but it's not that drastic of a difference.


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## streetscapeer (Apr 30, 2004)

LA1 said:


> I have always wondered about this as well. Miami doesn't have the service sector employment of a larger city to fill these condos. Same goes with Las Vegas. Are these going to be nothing but vacation homes/2nd homes in both cities? Is that a good thing? All of these condos being built so someone can visit the city for a 1-2 weeks in a year? That is really no different than a empty building if they can't rent it out.



Of course the influx of new condo units does not correspond to the number of new jobs being created every month, but the same goes for Chicago!

It seems *highly* unlikely that someone would buy a condo, furnish it, and spend one week out of the year inhabiting it. Celebreties hardly do this. Alot of new residents will only be spending the wintery months in South Florida, which gains hundreds of thousands of snowbirds (probably close to a million, believe it or not). Many will stay there year-round just like a regular city, And quite a few will be suburbanites looking to beat the traffic and live "in the center of things", so to speak.


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## LA1 (Sep 12, 2002)

I know they don't relate. But Miami doesn't have the workforce of Chicago or NYC. Las Vegas does not. The jobs already exist for Chicago or NYC. It doesn't matter if new jobs are being created to keep up with the pace of new residential construction. In fact, Chicago's residential downtown explosion is really trying to play catch up with the jobs that have been there for decades. Chicago and NYC can gain 1 new office worker for a year, and it won't matter. Both cities already have hundreds of thousands of people who work in the city's core. Miami, Las Vegas or San Diego do not.


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## LA1 (Sep 12, 2002)

streetscapeer said:


> Of course the influx of new condo units does not correspond to the number of new jobs being created every month, but the same goes for Chicago!
> 
> It seems *highly* unlikely that someone would buy a condo, furnish it, and spend one week out of the year inhabiting it. Celebreties hardly do this. Alot of new residents will only be spending the wintery months in South Florida, which gains hundreds of thousands of snowbirds (probably close to a million, believe it or not). Many will stay there year-round just like a regular city, And quite a few will be suburbanites looking to beat the traffic and live "in the center of things", so to speak.


Um yes. There was a big article a few weeks ago about the condo hotel all over the United States. Here in Chicago for instance, a couple was from Georgia but bought a $300,000 condo so they can spend a week in it for vacation instead of staying at a hotel.


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## streetscapeer (Apr 30, 2004)

^what I'm saying is that these actions are far from being the norm!


And there really are very, very few condo-hotels projects, if any at all, under construction or proposed, and they are usually already furnished by the hotel


Remember, this discussion is mainly about construction in the future since the number of highrises for each metro match-up quite well!


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## streetscapeer (Apr 30, 2004)

^^Why is this seen as a competition (again, can we please tone down the bitterness)...it's more of an assessment, I think! Chicago's skyscrapers are are very centralized (and I love that!), while Miami's scrapers are located in multiple downtowns throughout the metro (and I like that too!), they surely aren't just scattered about suburbia, as some have claimed here!


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## Topher1 (Jun 15, 2005)

LA1 said:


> It has nothing to do with bitterness. I am just wondering how Miami plans to fill the residential towers. No one answered my question. Speculation building can be a terrible thing.


Miami-Dade population:
2000: 2,253,362
2004: 2,363,600
Total Change: +110,238

Miami-Dade is a growing county. The majority of new development is multi-family. 27,559 people are moving into the county each year. These people will need a place to live. Even if many of the units are being initially purchased by investors, with this kind of residential demand, they will be used eventually.


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## streetscapeer (Apr 30, 2004)

and that's just Miami-Dade County. 

Aren't Broward County (1.7 million) and Palm Beach County (1.3 million) growing faster??


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## LA1 (Sep 12, 2002)

Topher1 said:


> Miami-Dade population:
> 2000: 2,253,362
> 2004: 2,363,600
> Total Change: +110,238
> ...


But many of these are immigrants who can't afford 300G condos.


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## The Mad Hatter!! (Oct 27, 2004)

LA1 said:


> But many of these are immigrants who can't afford 300G condos.


Along with Tampa, Miami led the nation with the sharpest increase in available jobs paying $100,000 or more, according to a survey by TheLadders.com, an online executive search firm.

"We have almost 200 people moving to Miami and Fort Lauderdale every day and who knows how many second-home buyers," said Ron Shuffield, president of Esslinger-Wooten-Maxwell Realtors, or EWM, one of the largest realty firms in the area. "That means by the end of the week there will be at least 1,400 people who want to live in the area, or 6,000 new people a month."

from investors business daily


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## jzquince69 (Nov 17, 2004)

I don't know what this bickering was all about anyway. Miami metro is way smaller than Chicago. That being said, there's way more development per capita than in Chicago. 

Chicago has 227 or so square miles. Miami has 34 or so. Chicago also has miles and miles of skyscrapers along Lake Shore Drive and Sheridan Rd. Miami has Biscayne and Collins all the way up (A1A) into Palm Beach County.

I did the same check on Emporis. Miami has already more skyscrapers than Chicago in a combo of those 4 categories. 

This residential vs. office arguement is ridiculous. I'm from Chicago. I know its downtown better than Daley himself. Some of Chicago's largest buildings are residential or at least mixed use or non-office: Hancock, Water Tower Place, Lake Point Tower, 900 N., Park Hyatt, *Trump, *Elysian, Presidential Towers, Marina City, Harbor Point Tower, One Mag Mile, 1000 Lake Shore Plaza, etc.... the list goes on.

Chicago will always have a larger downtown re sheer bulk, b/c that's just the way its gotta be. There's too many 500+ footers there. And its much older. 

But I've said it before and I'll say it again. The mark of a great city is the number of residential high rises in the urban core. NYC and Chicago and Miami are this country's frontrunners in that category.

Chicago is an anomaly. But a good one at that.

BTW, I hope that World's Tallest spire does not get built. It has a horrible design. The last two proposals were much better.

BTW Also, Toronto has more skyscrapers than Chicago and a taller structure, CNT.


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## RaymondHood (Feb 5, 2014)

There's a great article in the current New Yorker magazine about global warming and sea-level rise. In metro Miami, the development industry is hiding its head in the sand, frantically building high-rises that won't be reliably accessible in years to come. Even now, many urbanized parts of the region are periodically under water. And the governor won't allow public employees to even mention the problem.


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## 009 (Nov 28, 2007)

RaymondHood said:


> There's a great article in the current New Yorker magazine about global warming and sea-level rise. In metro Miami, the development industry is hiding its head in the sand, frantically building high-rises that won't be reliably accessible in years to come. Even now, many urbanized parts of the region are periodically under water. And the governor won't allow public employees to even mention the problem.


I'll go with Chicago then


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## Miami High Rise (Feb 15, 2011)

RaymondHood said:


> There's a great article in the current New Yorker magazine about global warming and sea-level rise. In metro Miami, the development industry is hiding its head in the sand, frantically building high-rises that won't be reliably accessible in years to come. Even now, many urbanized parts of the region are periodically under water. And the governor won't allow public employees to even mention the problem.


You posted this same thing elsewhere, too. The article is better than most but still on the biased side. Very few specific low spots, mostly in south beach, see the current sunny day tidal flooding and only at kind tides, the blood moon, and a tiny bit at random spring tides (I've seen the gutters fill to within inches of street level at random spring tides). It's not going to be "new Venice" in 25 years. All that is for sure is that by 2100 it will be no less than one foot more than now, going by the current accelerated rate (over 20th century) but assuming it accelerates no more. It probably will, so this is really a bare minimal amount, but it is what can be counted on virtually unequivocally. The parts that flood are at 3 feet amsl or less, some being within a rounding error of 0 feet above normal high tide mark. Miami is considered to be about 6 feet overall (I thought it was 7), with many areas much higher. So for literal inundation it would take quite a bit. It's not quite time to follow the "Stoddard Slow and Graceful Depopulation Model" just yet.


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## RaymondHood (Feb 5, 2014)

Miami High Rise said:


> The article is better than most but still on the biased side.


Since I live at the other end of the country (the one with droughts, mudslides, forest fires, and earthquakes), I'm not very much up to speed on the details of South Florida's plight. It would be helpful if you identified the biases in the article -- conflicts of interest, inaccuracies, misinformation, falsehoods, etc. It struck me that the author used a wide variety of sources -- academics, elected officials, hands-on field workers, and the like.

One thing I didn't mention was saltwater intrusion into the water supply. Not an easy problem to deal with.


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## Miami High Rise (Feb 15, 2011)

Saltwater intrusion when it happens more I think will be the most pressing issue. That and the loss of flood control. But literal inundation is a ways off. And those credentials you listed don't always mean much. Stoddard is a professor and an elected official, but I wouldn't take his word as gospel. The UM professors might be a little better but still on the hippy dippy side relative to the rest of the U.


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## Miami High Rise (Feb 15, 2011)

And yes the California situation is quite alarming. And I only know about it by coincidence on the news in the background, I don't follow it specifically but thinking about what they've been saying, things like water rations, major Crop losses, etc quite heavy duty stuff. Florida just had some big Crop losses due to abnormal December rains.


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## Bobdreamz (Sep 12, 2002)

*Quote below was posted on July 22nd, 2005, 02:17 AM | Post#55*



FastWhiteTA said:


> Completed:
> 
> *Houston has 29 completed over 500 feet.
> LA 21
> ...


Ten years later and here is a update for the city of Miami proper & not the metro area:

30 Skyscrapers over 500+ feet | 152 + meters Completed & Built
18 Skyscrapers over 500+ feet | 152 + meters Under Construction


http://www.skyscrapercenter.com/int...ison=on&output[]=list&dataSubmit=Show+Results

Houston now has 33 Skyscrapers over 500+ feet | 152+ meters with 2 more Under Construction.http://www.skyscrapercenter.com/int...ison=on&output[]=list&dataSubmit=Show+Results

Miami the city proper now ranks #3rd. largest skyline in the US after NYC & Chicago in the number of highrises over 500+ feet | 152+ meters.









http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/...iew from Miami Marine stadium_zpsomztwd5u.jpg

^ This is before Brickell Citi Centre has risen also.


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## Aceventura (May 6, 2007)

Sunny Isles Beach right now has 10 over 500 ft with 2 more under construction. The first of these were being topped off around '05 and the newest were not yet proposed.







https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/23103938739/ Miami-1 by Zachary Gresham, on Flickr Back to the very first post and ignoring any speculation. How many *highrises* right *now* are built in the Miami Metro, everything in Miami-Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach? And how many are there now in the Chicago Metro? (Not trying to start a pissing contest, I'm aware that Miami's skyscraper skyline will never catch Chicago's, I'm aware of the large GDP gap between the Metros as well.)


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## RaymondHood (Feb 5, 2014)

jzquince69 said:


> . The mark of a great city is the number of residential high rises in the urban core...



I'd say that the mark of a great city is a humanly-scaled ground plane and a flourishing human presence well-distributed throughout town.


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## marvchristensen (Oct 24, 2015)

dave8721 said:


> The totals of the Miami and Chicago Metros according to Emporis:
> 
> Miami Metro(pop 5,361,723)
> Completed: 945
> ...


It is a distinct possibility.


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## Chicagoago (Dec 2, 2005)

marvchristensen said:


> It is a distinct possibility.


That was 10 years ago. As far as what I can find for metros and completed/under construction/proposed highrises:

Chicago: 1,507
Miami: 1,135


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Chicagoago said:


> That was 10 years ago. As far as what I can find for metros and completed/under construction/proposed highrises:
> 
> Chicago: 1,507
> Miami: 1,135


What ever benchmark one uses it's clear that the gap is closing. Chicago may be the US' big transit hub and one of the principal reasons for its size but Miami is turning into the bridge between south America and the north American mainland. 

As much as I love Chicago, it will be difficult for it to stay ahead indefinitely. As good as Chicago's geographical location is, Miami's is better.


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## Aceventura (May 6, 2007)

Chicagoago said:


> That was 10 years ago. As far as what I can find for metros and completed/under construction/proposed highrises:
> 
> Chicago: 1,507
> Miami: 1,135


Thanks. :cheers: I've had trouble searching the internet for current numbers. Emporis seems to be reasonably accurate, but I don't know how to cull the unbuilt and proposed in a timely fashion. 

This linked chart helps give a little bit of insight into the current cycle of residential construction in South Florida, though it does not differentiate in height so it's tough to distinguish how many are mid-rises. In addition to this chart there were around 250 residential buildings constructed during the '03-'10 cycle, again that number includes mid-rises. These numbers don't include office highrises and scrapers, but those numbers should be relatively low in past 15 years, my guess would be 20.

http://cranespotters.com/TrendsFiles/TrendsVideo_20151227_211533.pdf


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## RaymondHood (Feb 5, 2014)

isaidso said:


> Chicago may be the US' big transit hub and one of the principal reasons for its size but Miami is turning into the bridge between south America and the north American mainland.
> 
> As much as I love Chicago, it will be difficult for it to stay ahead indefinitely. As good as Chicago's geographical location is, Miami's is better.


It's good to take a broad view like this. But geographical location can be a double-edged sword. Taking an even broader view, hydrology and geology (sea level rise and saltwater intrusion into the Florida aquifer) are not on Miami's side, and very little is being done now to mitigate the eventual and inevitable crisis.


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