# Highway & traffic safety



## edolen1 (Oct 12, 2004)

I know, it sucks! Luckily here in Europe I haven't encountered it as much as in the US, but you can find asses who don't wanna move here as well..

About multi-lane arterial roads, it's funny, but here in Slovenia at least, keeping to the right is only obligatory and recommended on motorways and expressways, but not on avenues in cities, where you can drive on whichever lane you prefer, but that means you can also overtake on the right. I'm not sure why that's the case, but I guess it may be cuz of the fact that we don't have that much avenues to begin with..


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## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

LtBk said:


> What is it with the left lane that makes drivers lose logic?


I'd say lack of proper driving education? That would be the cause to begin with. Then, there is a total lack of left lane enforcement. Finally, there is no peer pressure on left-lane hogs because Americans consider light flashing and/or honking to be an overkill, so most of the time they just tailgate slow drivers hoping to force them to the right.


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## Æsahættr (Jul 9, 2004)

In Minnesota there is no "left lane passing only" law. 
x_x


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## NZer (Sep 12, 2002)

It's shocking here in Perth, even big slow trucks will hog the passing lane on the freeway, seemingly oblivious to the fact that there is a queue behind them crawling along at 90-95km/h.


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## x-type (Aug 19, 2005)

in Croatia we mostly don't have that problem since motorway interceptors are present. anyway, it is still very possible to see some people who think that motorway is their and they are doing more then 160 in passing lane.
also, when traffic at motorway is high, everyone goes to left (fast) lane instead of slowing down for few km/h


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## Cicerón (May 15, 2006)

It's a real problem here in Spain. In fact, traffic authorities broadcast radio advertisements about it. :crazy:


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

In what?Slow drivers hogging up or too many drivers at the left lane?At least you guys are doing something about it.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

Yes. It truly is a bitch.


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## FM 2258 (Jan 24, 2004)

Cicerón said:


> It's a real problem here in Spain. In fact, traffic authorities broadcast radio advertisements about it. :crazy:


I wish they'd do that here in the United States. Instead of stupid "buckle up" billboards they should post "Get out of the FUCKING LEFT LANE" billboards. Also why do people drive so slow in the freeways here in my city of Austin. It's the slow drivers that **** things up for the rest of the highway.  You can easily force 1000 cars to slow down because you slowed down but there is no way to speed up 1000 cars in front of you. 

I want to get an extremely loud horn to put on my car so people can hear it on the freeway. I want it to be as loud as a freight train locomotive horn.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

I thought people in Texas drive fast? MD drivers are slow(and the same can be said for NE drivers too).


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## EricIsHim (Jun 16, 2003)

FM 2258 said:


> should post "Get out of the FUCKING LEFT LANE" billboards.


Signs do say "KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT PASS" in the US.
But without authority enforcement like seat belt rules, it really doesn't mean anything.


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## go_leafs_go02 (Jan 16, 2007)

problem isn't really that big here in Ontario.

Americans are brutal for it, along with their lack of signalling while changing lanes.

Heck, most people around here signal in parking lots.


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## ZeTaCy (Jan 14, 2007)

The Netherlands doesnt really have that problem. We are always stuck in traffic that we cant even exercise that "right" :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## x-type (Aug 19, 2005)

interesting, Spaniards are complaining about driving in left lane, but while i was in Spain, right and middle lanes were mostly full, and left not. interesting. mayba Catalans are driving better 
and while my friend from Barcelona was here at my place, she asked me why was i driving in middle lane when right was empty  interesting


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## Cicerón (May 15, 2006)

x-type said:


> interesting, Spaniards are complaining about driving in left lane, but while i was in Spain, right and middle lanes were mostly full, and left not. interesting. mayba Catalans are driving better
> and while my friend from Barcelona was here at my place, she asked me why was i driving in middle lane when right was empty  interesting


Well, the problem is when a truck driver overtakes another truck at 110 km/h in a two lane (2x2) motorway. I can't remember exactly what the advert said, but it was something like this: "you will create a traffic jam if you drive too slowly on the left lane". So I suppose the advert was made for truck drivers. 

And yes, we drive better in the north of Spain, not only Catalans  :lol:


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

trucks drive 110km/h in Spain?!


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## x-type (Aug 19, 2005)

Chris1491 said:


> trucks drive 110km/h in Spain?!


130 in Croatia

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FtKCHmbM988

to make things worse - it's a cistern hno: hno:


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## Cicerón (May 15, 2006)

Chris1491 said:


> trucks drive 110km/h in Spain?!


I meant, if a truck drives at 95 km/h the other one overtakes at a slightly faster speed. So both trucks are almost parallel during hundreds of meters. I said 110 km/h because I didn't really know how fast a truck could overtake another :lol: Anyway, the maximum legal speed for trucks is 100 km/h in Spain.


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## x-type (Aug 19, 2005)

Cicerón said:


> I meant, if a truck drives at 95 km/h the other one overtakes at a slightly faster speed. So both trucks are almost parallel during hundreds of meters. I said 110 km/h because I didn't really know how fast a truck could overtake another :lol:


that reminds me when i was driving Renault 4 on a motorway and tried to overtake a truck. omg, that was really stupid :nuts:


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

High limits for trucks then. In the Netherlands, trucks are only allowed to drive 80km/h. I didn't know there were truck limits higher as 96km/h in Europe (UK/Ireland).


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

Jeroen669 said:


> Doesn't the keep-your-lane system in america allow you to drive in whatever lane you want?


There is no such system, its the stupidity,ignorance, and selfishness of American drivers.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

*Seatbelt laws where you live.*

I've been wanting to know, for ages, what are the seatbelt laws where you all live.

Here in Portugal, everybody in a car must use them.


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

DFM said:


> I've been wanting to know, for ages, what are the seatbelt laws where you all live.
> 
> Here in Portugal, everybody in a car must use them.


are there supposed to be places on Earth,where they are not a must?
anyways,here,they are compulsory. along with that the cars' lights must be on all the time..even at daylight.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

RawLee said:


> the cars' *lights must be on all the time..even at daylight.*


Really? I didn't know thst, i'm shocked! (I must sound so ignorant, which, I probably am.)


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

More and more countries make lights on a mandatory by daylight. Poland has introduced in recently too.

When it's not a mandatory, things differ from country to country, in Belgium and Germany, drivers usually have the lights off at daylight, while the majority of the Dutch have them on.


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## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

In Estonia, everybody in the car must wear seatbelts, except a taxi driver inside the city, passengers in a taxi, a driving instructor and when drving on an ice road. Passengers in buses don't have to wear seatbelts either, cause the majority of buses here don't even have seatbelts so it wouldn't change much.

About headlights:
C'mon, it should be clear to everyone that having headlights on 24h makes cars much more visible.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Chris-Very intersting, do you keep you're headlights on?

Rebasepoiss- Except a taxi driver indide the city... and when driving on an ice road. That Sounds strange to be honest.


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## Frog (Nov 27, 2004)

When I was in South Korea most cars didn't have a seatbelt and nobody used them, there was probably a law but when most people bought cars they had the seatbelts taken out and I never saw it enforced. That was 1990-2000 so I might have changed now but it was quite different coming from UK where I always put on a seatbelt by instinct .


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## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

DFM said:


> Chris-Very intersting, do you keep you're headlights on?
> 
> Rebasepoiss- Except a taxi driver indide the city... and when driving on an ice road. That Sounds strange to be honest.


When weather is cold enough, we have roads over frozen sea between islands and mainland. I think it's pretty obvius why wearing a seatbelt there is not so good idea.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Frog-South Korea... not suurprised.

Rebasepoiss-To get out on time if the ice breaks.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

DFM said:


> Chris-Very intersting, do you keep you're headlights on?


Usually, yes.

It's not to see, but to be seen.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Chris1491 said:


> Usually, yes.
> 
> It's not to see, but to be seen.


Yes, I understand


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## ElviS77 (Aug 3, 2007)

Chris1491 said:


> Usually, yes.
> 
> It's not to see, but to be seen.


Exactly. Mandatory in Norway. As is seatbelts, as long as they are fitted in the car/bus/lorry. AFAIK, taxi drivers may still leave them off, but that law is probably going to change. The only time you are encouraged not to wear seatbelts, is when driving on and off ferries - for obvious reasons.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

I'm surpriesd you have to have them on even in the summer!


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

DFM said:


> I'm surpriesd you have to have them on even in the summer!


why?


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## keber (Nov 8, 2006)

Better visibility, that's the answer.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

RawLee said:


> why?


Let's say it's sunny tempreture of 24º you can see for miles and you still have to use the headlights?


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## keber (Nov 8, 2006)

No. That you can easily see oncoming traffic with headlights on. Even in summer it makes quite a difference.


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

DFM said:


> Let's say it's sunny tempreture of 24º you can see for miles and you still have to use the headlights?


Traffic signs are fluorescent...maybe this makes them more visible..and yes...it makes you easier to notice. 
BTW,what does temperature has to do with it?


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

When you want to enter a road, and take a fast peek over your shoulder, you'll easier notice cars with their headlights on.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Rawlee- It's just a example of a nice day.
Chris- I'll have a look at that in Portugal.


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## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

A couple of years ago I was almost ran over by a grey car on grey asphalt on a grey rainy day, because the driver hadn't turned headlights on.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Rebasepoiss said:


> A couple of years ago I was almost ran over by a grey car on grey asphalt on a grey rainy day, because the driver hadn't turned headlights on.


I belive that, here we put the headlights in the rain (it's very grey today).


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## sk (Dec 6, 2005)

we have big fines here in case someone doesnt put on a seat belt.
we dont use the lights during the day,only when its rainy or cloudy .


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## TheCat (Apr 21, 2006)

Hehe interesting discussion. In Canada, we don't have to keep lights on during the day, but there is a law that all cars imported/produced in Canada since 1994 must have daylight running lights, i.e. when you turn on the ignition, the lights automatically turn and stay on, but not at the same power level as actual headlights that are used at night.

I have almost never seen a car in Canada that does not have daylight running lights, and therefore, it is not a problem here. Virtually all cars here are visible because their headlights are always dimly lit. I am curious - is this very rare elsewhere in the world, such as in Europe?

Wearing a seatbelt here is of course mandatory, but I did find the bus remarks somewhat strange. There are actually buses with seat belts? Most of the time people have to stand anyway when the bus becomes full. This is interesting also


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## pwalker (Feb 19, 2007)

*In the U.S.,*

In the U.S. most states have mandatory seat belt laws, however, there are still a number of states (mostly western) where you can't be stopped for not wearing them, unless there is another violation. In other words, if you are obeying all traffic laws, then they can't pull you over for seat belt violations. 

The only state that requires lights turned on during daylight is Alaska. And I believe that is on only select highways.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

Here, you have to wear your seatbelt, and if the cops catch you without one, you can get a ticket and a fine.


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## keber (Nov 8, 2006)

TheCat said:


> I have almost never seen a car in Canada that does not have daylight running lights, and therefore, it is not a problem here. Virtually all cars here are visible because their headlights are always dimly lit. I am curious - is this very rare elsewhere in the world, such as in Europe?


In Europe it is not rare, more and more countries have mandatory to have headlights during the day. Even there, where it is not mandatory (like Germany) more and more people use headlights during the day.


> Wearing a seatbelt here is of course mandatory, but I did find the bus remarks somewhat strange. There are actually buses with seat belts? Most of the time people have to stand anyway when the bus becomes full. This is interesting also


Seatbelts are mounted on long distance buses and tourist buses (but not on city buses), however I doubt, that people use them a lot.


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## KHS (Mar 13, 2007)

In Croatia lights have to be on all the time also. New cars are adapted to this rule. Their lights are always on so you cant forget to turn therm on.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

I've been loking around in Portugal and I've not seen one car with the light's on during the day (even the one from Estonia), the Dutch ones, none.

Did you know that you can't put fog light's on here, so the car headlight hand dosen't go all the way around.


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## Realek (Mar 19, 2006)

In Macedonia they are both mandatory - the seatbelts and the lights during all times.


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## Jaeger (May 11, 2006)

DFM said:


> I've been wanting to know, for ages, what are the seatbelt laws where you all live.
> 
> Here in Portugal, everybody in a car must use them.



Same in the UK.


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## keber (Nov 8, 2006)

DFM said:


> I've been loking around in Portugal and I've not seen one car with the light's on during the day (even the one from Estonia), the Dutch ones, none.


Maybe you have fines for having lights on during the day? This was common in many parts of Europe about 20 years ago and as I've heard, Greece still punishes drivers for having lights in the day.


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## ElviS77 (Aug 3, 2007)

TheCat said:


> Hehe interesting discussion. In Canada, we don't have to keep lights on during the day, but there is a law that all cars imported/produced in Canada since 1994 must have daylight running lights, i.e. when you turn on the ignition, the lights automatically turn and stay on, but not at the same power level as actual headlights that are used at night.QUOTE]
> 
> Lights turning on with the ignition used to be the situation in Norway as well, but due to some EU regulations, we aren't allowed to do this anymore.


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## RoadUser (Aug 10, 2007)

Israel: wearing seatbelts is compulsory front and rear

Headlights must be on during the day during the winter (Nov. 1 to April 1, I think), even if it is a bright sunny winter's day.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

keber said:


> Maybe you have fines for having lights on during the day? This was common in many parts of Europe about 20 years ago and as I've heard, Greece still punishes drivers for having lights in the day.


No,I'm sure of that.


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## aussiescraperman (Apr 5, 2005)

very strict here, australia is safety mad.......

i reckon less than 0.01% of ppl don't wear seatbelts here.


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## keber (Nov 8, 2006)

ElviS77 said:


> Lights turning on with the ignition used to be the situation in Norway as well, but due to some EU regulations, we aren't allowed to do this anymore.


Hm, Norway is not in EU. And in Sweden, which is in EU, cars turn lights on on igniton. 
Something is wrong with your statement.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

:crazy:


ElviS77 said:


> Lights turning on with the ignition used to be the situation in Norway as well, but due to some EU regulations, we aren't allowed to do this anymore.


What? :crazy:


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## kebabmonster (Jun 29, 2004)

*England and Wales*

Every person aged 14 or over must wear an adult seat belt in a motor-vehicle, whether in the front or rear.

There are exceptions, such as 

-when reversing
-taxi-drivers
-disabled people
-certain types of buses (such as those providing a public service in a built up area, or which is constructed/adapted for the carriage of standiong passengers and the operator permits the standing) but not buses or coaches carrying 3 or more children on an organised trip.

There is a sh*tload of legislation relating to seat belts in England and Wales, but the above are the main points.


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## Halawala (Oct 16, 2005)

That's the funniest question Ive read. 

In the case of Qatar, the question should be "Is there any straight roads in your country??"


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## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

It would take years to picture all the bumby roads in Estonia. There must me thousands of km-s of bumpy road.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Rebasepoiss said:


> It would take years to picture all the bumby roads in Estonia. There most me thousands of km-s of bumpy road.


Same with Portugal.


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## wyqtor (Jan 15, 2007)

^^ In that case, in Romania there must be TENS of thousands of bumpy roads...


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## x-type (Aug 19, 2005)

Croatia could be placed high, too  fortunately, not on the main routes

but we all now where is the place with no bumpy roads and with fantastic gorgeous ultra super fucking shiny crashbarriers and fresh ultra super black asphalt which stays fresh for 10 years!


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

x-type said:


> Croatia could be placed high, too  fortunately, not on the main routes
> 
> but we all now where is the place with no bumpy roads and with fantastic gorgeous ultra super fucking shiny crashbarriers and fresh ultra super black asphalt which stays fresh for 10 years!


Where? The only bad roads here are inside Budapest,in other major cities and in the county.:nuts:


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

x-type said:


> but we all now where is the place with no bumpy roads and with fantastic gorgeous ultra super fucking shiny crashbarriers and fresh ultra super black asphalt which stays fresh for 10 years!





RawLee said:


> Where?


:hammer: :hammer: :hammer:


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

x-type said:


> Croatia could be placed high, too  fortunately, not on the main routes
> 
> but we all now where is the place with no bumpy roads and with fantastic gorgeous ultra super fucking shiny crashbarriers and fresh ultra super black asphalt which stays fresh for 10 years!


Nepal.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

x-type said:


> but we all now where is the place with no bumpy roads and with fantastic gorgeous ultra super fucking shiny crashbarriers and fresh ultra super black asphalt which stays fresh for 10 years!





RawLee said:


> Where?





DFM said:


> Nepal.


:hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:


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## x-type (Aug 19, 2005)

DFM said:


> Nepal.


tente outra vez


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

Is this bumpy enough?:lol:


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## TheCat (Apr 21, 2006)

^^ lol actually the pavement on that road looks quite good, but rather it's the terrain that's very bumpy.

But coming back to the point, most major streets in Toronto are very cracked and bumpy, and are in a bad condition overall, although not everywhere. They are drivable and do their job relatively well, and the marking is usually in a decent condition too, but the surface at times is very very bad.


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## victor5101 (Jan 9, 2007)

*..*

hno:


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

TheCat said:


> ^^ lol actually the pavement on that road looks quite good, but rather it's the terrain that's very bumpy.


The whole road,from Miskolc to the Slovak border(~50km) has been repaved last year.


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## radi6404 (May 13, 2007)

In bulgaria there are bumpy roads but I promise there´s no one single bump on the E79/struma, Kulata - Sofia


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## Jeroen669 (Nov 29, 2006)

This summer I drove on the Belgium N67 between Eupen and Monschau. It was the worst (and most bumpy) road I've ever seen in Western Europe. In general Belgium roads are often bad maintained. In Holland bumpy roads are really rare. We've got generally a well maintained road network. One of the famous exceptions is the ex-motorway 'de Strijp' in Eindhoven. Some urban brick roads in the city I live are quite bad too (driving them only 20 km/h in a car, even only 10km/h in a truck).


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## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

Heh, our rural roads are bumpy, but to describe the streets of Tallinn, you would need a different category, something like: "Roads where a Ferrari is slower than an Opel"


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Yeah the Belgian N67 is really bad.

I'd have to bring up the old Reichsautobahnen. Especially the Polish A4 was HORRIBLE. You'd really got seasick on that road. Now that has all changed.


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## pilotos (Jan 24, 2007)

Well a lot of those in Greece, especially inner city roads, the fun thing is that while they are repaving the roads quite often, always the electricity/telecommunications/water companies are there to make new holes for us!Thus after they cover the holes, what remains is a bumpy road!


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## Sinjin P. (Jul 17, 2005)

Countless :devil:


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## radi6404 (May 13, 2007)

Bulgaria rural landroads which are not nationalroads can be bumpy, even when they are new, I do´nt know hwy, maybe they are paving over the old asphalt, the Sofia roads used to be bumpy but they are fixing them all now, nationalroads are usually fine.


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## ADCS (Oct 30, 2006)

*I don't know if you've seen this before*

This is pretty damn funny. It's a little "adult", but educational, so I'd say under 13 not allowed.:nuts::lol:

http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_apr2001/RoadSignRomance.jpg 

PS: If this is a little too skybarish, feel free to move. I didn't think the people there would appreciate it as much, though.


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## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

Oh man, it has been translated into hundreds of other languages over the years


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## arriaca (Feb 28, 2006)

I see this in Spanish


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## radi6404 (May 13, 2007)

quite funny


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## ADCS (Oct 30, 2006)

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Oh man, it has been translated into hundreds of other languages over the years


Glad to hear it. Not very often that you can find humor that truly translates across all languages :lol:


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

LOL.


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## gannman1975 (Jan 17, 2008)

pwalker said:


> Interesting topic.
> 
> In the US west, there are two kinds of left lane hogs...one type, especially in more rural areas, just don't know the protocol, and don't realize they are slowing traffic and causing frustration behind them. (These folks are usually in pre-1990 vehicles, btw).
> 
> ...


AMEN!


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## FM 2258 (Jan 24, 2004)

I think I'm going to keep a small tray of eggs in my car and if I catch up to a left lane hogger that won't get out of my way, I'll toss an egg at his/her car as I'm forced to pass on the right. 

Or hell, I could just make a personal sign that says "LEFT LANE FOR PASSING ONLY" or "SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT" and hold that up as I pass the jackass on the right.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

Is there anywhere in the US(aside from rural areas) where people know lane discipline?


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## OettingerCroat (May 24, 2005)

x-type said:


> that reminds me when i was driving Renault 4 on a motorway and tried to overtake a truck. omg, that was really stupid :nuts:


hahaha :hilarious


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## FM 2258 (Jan 24, 2004)

LtBk said:


> Is there anywhere in the US(aside from rural areas) where people know lane discipline?


Austin just got a new set of tollways and one thing I've noticed is that drivers on the tollway are excellent drivers. People I've encountered in the left lane have almost always pulled to the side.


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## Jeroen669 (Nov 29, 2006)

Is there enough enforcement to left-lane hoggers? The fines here are quite high for it.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

^^ Yeah, but the chance you get caught is minimal...


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## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

Chriszwolle said:


> ^^ Yeah, but the chance you get caught is minimal...


True, but in Europe other drivers force you pull to the right because they cannot overtake on the right. Here, left-lane hogs are cursed at, but generally people just overtake them as soon as they have a gap in the right lane. Plus, the chance you get caught in the USA is even smaller than in Europe.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

Most police in the US don't give a shit about left lane hoggers or any other driver violation, even if its illegal under law. They only care about catching speeders for revenue. God, i hate US mentality sometimes.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

^^ It's exactly the same, maybe even worse in Europe, especially Netherlands and the UK which are full of fixed speed traps.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

At least European drivers know how to move over to the right.


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## Czas na Żywiec (Jan 17, 2005)

FM 2258 said:


> I think I'm going to keep a small tray of eggs in my car and if I catch up to a left lane hogger that won't get out of my way, I'll toss an egg at his/her car as I'm forced to pass on the right.
> 
> Or hell, I could just make a personal sign that says "LEFT LANE FOR PASSING ONLY" or "SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT" and hold that up as I pass the jackass on the right.


Haha, ditto on the second part. I've been wanting to do for that longest time but never got around to it. :lol:


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## Czas na Żywiec (Jan 17, 2005)

LtBk said:


> Most police in the US don't give a shit about left lane hoggers or any other driver violation, even if its illegal under law. They only care about catching speeders for revenue. God, i hate US mentality sometimes.


They just passed a law in Colorado that if you are hogging the left lane on a motorway with a speed limit higher than 65mph/105km/h (So any motorway outside of urban areas) they can pull you over and fine you just for that.


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## Timon91 (Feb 9, 2008)

Why is Yukon so high? Moose?


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## ChrisH (Mar 7, 2006)

UK accident statistics are here: http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistic.../2008edition/sectioneighttransportacciden.pdf

Table 8.3 gives you data for motorways.


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## pijanec (Mar 28, 2007)

@Timon91: maybe drink & drive ?


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## Timon91 (Feb 9, 2008)

^^Yes, but why only in Yukon?


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## jsfox (Dec 15, 2008)

ChrisH said:


> UK accident statistics are here...


Chris, thank you! Do you happen to know if when they've calculated the rates for motorways it is per miles driven on motorways or per total miles driven for the UK?


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## ChrisH (Mar 7, 2006)

^^ Good question.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics/datatablespublications/tsgb/2008edition/ is the front page of that publication. Section 7, Table 7.4 shows you traffic data; in 2006 there were 99.2 billion vehicle-km on motorways in GB.

Rounding the figures, 8000 casualties from 100,000,000,000 vehicle-km is 1 casualty for every 0.00000008 vehicle-km, or 8 for every 100,000,000 vehicle-km. The definition of a casualty in the UK is anyone who needed, and got, medical attention after a collision which was reported to the police. You might want to check there are comparable methods for other countries!

So yes, it is just for motorways


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

Deaths on the roads here(in Hungary),is 83 in this August. From this,0 on motorways...even 0 in the entire year!

(only in hungarian:http://www.police.hu/statisztika/kozbiztstat/baleset0808.html)

There were 31 deadly accidents(39 death) on motorways last year in the period I-XII. Overwhelming majority is because of either speeding or not yielding.


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## ElviS77 (Aug 3, 2007)

The list isn't particularly surprising to me, and it is pretty conclusive regarding a few things. First, alcohol is a major killer on roads, and countries' attitude towards drinking and driving is a major factor. Also, based on personal driving experience in twentysomething European countries, I believe I could have placed each country fairly accurately on the list: Northern/Western European driving culture is far less aggressive than Southern/Eastern European, and even though motorways in, say, Greece or Romania are pretty straightforward, it's quite obvious that their way of driving leads to more accidents than you have in the Netherlands or Norway, for instance. Road quality matters surprisingly little, as does average age of the car park (Norway's roads are bad and we've got the oldest cars in Western Europe...). On the other hand, massive road improvements in Spain and Portugal have obviously helped in taking these countries out of the bottom section of the European statistics.


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## jsfox (Dec 15, 2008)

FYI:

http://cemt.org/IRTAD/IRTADPublic/we2.html


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

RawLee said:


> Deaths on the roads here(in Hungary),is 83 in this August. From this,0 on motorways...even 0 in the entire year!
> 
> (only in hungarian:http://www.police.hu/statisztika/kozbiztstat/baleset0808.html)
> 
> There were 31 deadly accidents(39 death) on motorways last year in the period I-XII. Overwhelming majority is because of either speeding or not yielding.


Excessive speeding? I was excepting higher because I thought Hungarian drivers are shitty.


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

LtBk said:


> Excessive speeding? I was excepting higher because I thought Hungarian drivers are shitty.


:lol:Actually,the number of wounded is high,~17000 just this year,but "only" 599 death so far,though none on motorways. It was 18000/808 last year.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

That's impressive!


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## (HUN)RoGeR (Jan 20, 2008)

RawLee said:


> There were 31 deadly accidents(39 death) on motorways last year in the period I-XII. Overwhelming majority is because of either speeding or not yielding.


And the lack of safety belt.

Edit: This Hungarian data looks neary impossible. Noone hurt on motorways? Can't imagine!
I think the police changed the statistic method and doen't count separate motorway.
The motorway accidents are integrated into the contys.


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

(HUN)RoGeR said:


> And the lack of safety belt.
> 
> Edit: This Hungarian data looks neary impossible. Noone hurt on motorways? Can't imagine!
> I think the police changed the statistic method and doen't count separate motorway.
> The motorway accidents are integrated into the contys.


Check my source,I cant say anything else.


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## (HUN)RoGeR (Jan 20, 2008)

RawLee said:


> Check my source,I cant say anything else.


I've checked.
1st page: Numer of accidents with injury.
Motorways: 0 @ 2008. Nobudy hurt on motorways? Nothing minor (2007: 34 accident, 71 injury) and mayor (18/27) injury?
Impossible, I think.


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

(HUN)RoGeR said:


> I've checked.
> 1st page: Numer of accidents with injury.
> Motorways: 0 @ 2008. Nobudy hurt on motorways? Nothing minor (2007: 34 accident, 71 injury) and mayor (18/27) injury?
> Impossible, I think.


Well,its not necessary that one might get hurt in an accident. I think "hurt" means,in this case,that you were taken to hospital->needed medical help. And since you dont really have accidents with 180km/h speed difference on motorways(which is quite possible on 2x1 roads,where cars go only with 90),I can believe these numbers. Colliding with 30 speed difference is not that much of a trauma...of course,if you dont land in the ditches.


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## (HUN)RoGeR (Jan 20, 2008)

RawLee said:


> Well,its not necessary that one might get hurt in an accident. I think "hurt" means,in this case,that you were taken to hospital->needed medical help. And since you dont really have accidents with 180km/h speed difference on motorways(which is quite possible on 2x1 roads,where cars go only with 90),I can believe these numbers. Colliding with 30 speed difference is not that much of a trauma...of course,if you dont land in the ditches.


No minor "hurt" means "heals within 8 days" and major means "heals beyond 8 day" (I hope've used the right expressionshno. So a broken arm is a major injury.


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## snowman159 (May 16, 2008)

A few things, I'd like to mention about statistics: 

Considering only death rates is a little simplistic. People who die a couple of days, weeks, months as a direct result of the accident don't show up. Same thing with permanent injuries and disabilities, psychological aftermaths, etc. A low death rate, but large number of injuries doesn't exactly mean roads are safe, even though politicians or the media sometimes try to make that point (conveniently leaving out the number of injuries).

A single bad accident involving a large bus and lots of fatalities - which can happen even on the safest roads for various reasons (alcohol, fatigue, human error, etc.) - and the death rate may jump way up. That doesn't necessarily imply roads are more dangerous overall. 

Also medical advances, improvements in rescue operations (response time, availability of choppers, etc.) can make an impact on the death toll.


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## ChrisH (Mar 7, 2006)

^^ In the UK, people who die up to 30 days after a collision and as a result of it are counted as fatalities. You're right that in other countries the definition can vary. I think in Portugal as long as you make it off the road alive it's not a fatal accident, even if you die in the ambulance!


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## kokanee2 (Jan 27, 2008)

On the Trans Canada Highway between Banff, AB and Lake Louise, AB, there are a two to three overhead wild-life crossings, and as I understand all highway bridges have been set up as under-grade crossings.

http://www.cpawscalgary.org/campaigns_nationalparks/trans_performance.php


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## Republica (Jun 30, 2005)

Why not aim for perfection? If you dont you will not do the best you can. Thats what they were trying. Is it not obvious?


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## H123Laci (Dec 6, 2007)

^^ people are unperfect, so the transport is unperfekt too...

it has no sence to choose a goal which cant be reached... (this is not the moon... :lol

It would be better to choose a goal of a 20-50% reduction...

it is impossible to prevent suicides (commited by intentional accidents), and to prevent negligence, DUI, DUD and Dw/oL...

(even policemen are doing these crimes... :nuts: )

you can only punish them... (if they survive)


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## gramercy (Dec 25, 2008)

i hate safety fascism but i hate hypocrisy even more
therefore:


1 - build roads that are safer (get rid of potholes for example...)
2 - encourage public transportation, build cycle lanes etc
3 - get rid of speed cameras
4 - check the mechanics of the vechicles much more thoroughly, especially heavy vechicles

meh


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## gramercy (Dec 25, 2008)

here 40-50 % (!!!) of people NEVER use the safety belt
here 80-90 % of the drivers NEVER keep a safe following distance
here 30-40 % of trucks ALWAYS run with more weight than allowed
here you cant drive more than 1 km withouth seeing a dangerous pothole
here even the main roads cross railroads
here we lack about 500 bypass roads, close to 3000 kms needed ... so traffic flows through towns


and yet what do the authorities concentrate on? alcohol, speed and whether or not you have a spare lightbulb !!!!!!!!!!!!



i read somewhere, that out of the 4-5000 annual car-related deaths only a few dozen are because of alcohol, only a few hundred are because of speeding......but over a 1000 are related to the lack of using the safety belt

if people used their safety belt, hungary could cut deaths by 20-25 % in one year


so you see, safety nazis should frankly hang themselves from their speed camreas


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

If the people in the car dont realize they are playing with their lives(=irresponsible),then by all means let them commit suicide.

The worst reason I've evr heard was "but I drive carefully"...this only works if only they live on this planet(including animals!)...


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## gramercy (Dec 25, 2008)

yes, except if 1000 people die than its safe to assume that at least that many get retarded, therefore we will have to pay a LOT for the rest of their lives


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## H123Laci (Dec 6, 2007)

gramercy said:


> so you see, safety nazis should frankly hang themselves from their speed camreas


you are a little bit overreacting this speedcam thing, arent you? :lol:


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## H123Laci (Dec 6, 2007)

gramercy said:


> that at least that many get retarded


you mean: disabled 
(unfortunately: many more... hno


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## gramercy (Dec 25, 2008)

i was once accelerating out of a roundabout and without looking i reached 59, for which they fined me
i was in 2nd gear....

and of course you are correct: people who dont use the safety belt are already retarded


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## H123Laci (Dec 6, 2007)

^^ you are mixing the importance of speed limit enforcing with the problem of the causeless and excessive speed limits... 

in that case the limit was 40km/h (maybe as an overall limit in the settlement), wasnt it?


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

gramercy said:


> here 40-50 % (!!!) of people NEVER use the safety belt
> here 80-90 % of the drivers NEVER keep a safe following distance
> here 30-40 % of trucks ALWAYS run with more weight than allowed
> here you cant drive more than 1 km withouth seeing a dangerous pothole
> ...


That's mentality mostly. I think I can safely say 80 - 90% of the Dutch motorists always use their seatbelt...


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

It's even 94%...


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## gramercy (Dec 25, 2008)

H123Laci said:


> ^^ you are mixing the importance of speed limit enforcing with the problem of the causeless and excessive speed limits...
> 
> in that case the limit was 40km/h (maybe as an overall limit in the settlement), wasnt it?


first of all, about speed cameras:







SPEED CAMREAS ARE A FORM OF TAXATION. PERIOD.

second, in my case, it was 50. if i went 3kph faster i would have gotten 2 points on my license just because my car is to fast in 2nd gear


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## Ingenioren (Jan 18, 2008)

Should easily let computers do the driving in the future, but untill then - humans do mistakes, and the point of the 0-vision is to achnowledge that mistakes should not cost you your life.... And if that costs someone to have a bit more boring drive, or get to work a little slower, the lives are much more important.... I think all new cars should have:

- Breathing test, to make sure you are not drunk.
- Refuse to start unless your seatbelt is fastened.
- Abs/Esp.
- Gps-controlled speeding-control. (Keeps the speedlimit for you)
- Radio/CD on steering wheel. 

All new roads of 70 km+ should have soft shoulders, soft signs and barriers. Divide facing trafic. 

Ped. crossings should have lights blinking when a ped. pushes a button.

Motorways are for safe and effictive transportation, if you want to ride fast, you go take a roller-coaster or the TGV. Still, 110km/h is good speed for motorways...

And it's not ok for people to be recless, they leave behind loved ones and society looses a lot of money...


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

How good is Hungarian drivers ed?


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## gramercy (Dec 25, 2008)

Ingenioren said:


> I think all new cars should have:
> 
> - Breathing test, to make sure you are not drunk.
> - Refuse to start unless your seatbelt is fastened.
> - Gps-controlled speeding-control. (Keeps the speedlimit for you)



and i think you are a nazi


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## Jeroen669 (Nov 29, 2006)

Ingenioren said:


> I think all new cars should have:
> 
> - Breathing test, to make sure you are not drunk.
> - Refuse to start unless your seatbelt is fastened.
> ...


Except for the ABS/ESP, I disagree. Those things will make a car so much more expensive, while you can question the (good-meant) effects of it. People need to have freedom to choose for these things. This would really make the 'Big-Brotherfeeling' only worse. hno:



> All new roads of 70 km+ should have soft shoulders, soft signs and barriers. Divide facing trafic.


I'm absolute for making roads wide enough, where possible. Central dividers make roads very inflexible though...



> Ped. crossings should have lights blinking when a ped. pushes a button.


I don't think it would help that much. You see those things here quite often, but it almost makes you want to look at the light itself more than at the pedestrian who wants to cross.



> Motorways are for safe and effictive transportation, if you want to ride fast, you go take a roller-coaster or the TGV. Still, 110km/h is good speed for motorways...


150km/h can be a good speed too. Depending on the vehicle, maybe even a bit faster. Motorways are designed to get people for fair travelling times from A to B. Imo you don't justify a low speed limit when it's designed for much higher speeds...



> And it's not ok for people to be recless, they leave behind loved ones and society looses a lot of money...


The society also looses a lot of money by more and more regulations. How cruel it may sound: you can't just prevent accidents for every price.


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## gramercy (Dec 25, 2008)

LtBk said:


> How good is Hungarian drivers ed?


CPR training + exam, 20 (?) hrs of studying + exam, 20 (?) hrs of driving on the track + exam, 20 (?) hrs of driving on the road (incl night, highway) + exam

takes several months and costs a fortune



after that you can safely operate a car....but of course you cant drive just yet..


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## H123Laci (Dec 6, 2007)

Ingenioren said:


> ...


naive ideas...

_- Breathing test, to make sure you are not drunk._

can be easily deactivated by specialists...

_- Refuse to start unless your seatbelt is fastened._

and what if U unfasten your seat belt while moving?
the engine stops?

_- Gps-controlled speeding-control. (Keeps the speedlimit for you)_

and what if you are just in the middle of an overtaking?
you are pushing the throttle, and nothing happens? :lol:
thats quite dangerous...


_Still, 110km/h is good speed for motorways..._

yeah... the only promlem: its fucking BOOOORING, and you can easily fall asleep... (maybe forever :lol

so you need a device which keeps awake... :lol:


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## Robosteve (Nov 6, 2008)

H123Laci said:


> _- Breathing test, to make sure you are not drunk._
> 
> can be easily deactivated by specialists...


I think it could be useful for drivers who aren't sure if they are below the legal limit or not, but it certainly shouldn't be mandatory.



H123Laci said:


> _- Refuse to start unless your seatbelt is fastened._
> 
> and what if U unfasten your seat belt while moving?
> the engine stops?


I agree, that's a silly idea. If someone wants to endanger their own life by not wearing a seatbelt, I honestly don't care, that's their own stupidity.



H123Laci said:


> _- Gps-controlled speeding-control. (Keeps the speedlimit for you)_
> 
> and what if you are just in the middle of an overtaking?
> you are pushing the throttle, and nothing happens? :lol:
> thats quite dangerous...


I agree, there are situations where speeding would be safer than not speeding. For instance, say you are driving 80 km/h on a steep descent with an 80 limit, and you look in your mirror and see a large truck coming up behind you with no way of slowing in time. It's a lot safer for you to accelerate out of the truck's way than to keep going 80 and cause an accident.



H123Laci said:


> _Still, 110km/h is good speed for motorways..._
> 
> yeah... the only promlem: its fucking BOOOORING, and you can easily fall asleep... (maybe forever :lol


It's not possible to generically say what a good speed limit is for a motorway. I know some inner urban motorways on which I would not be comfortable driving more than 70 km/h or so, but out in the countryside where there are much smoother curves, fewer intersections, less traffic and wider lanes I'll gladly exceed 130 km/h, assuming good weather conditions.

But, one night I was driving on the Hume Highway and there were incredible amounts of mist everywhere, reducing visibility phenomenally. I was driving 60 km/h (the speed limit was 110) simply because visibility was too poor to go any faster. This sort of individual judgment should apply in _every_ situation on such roads; it should never be the government's place to dictate the fastest safe speed of travel on rural roads.

You simply can't apply a "one size fits all" philosophy to speed limits, because not every driver has the same skills, not every car handles the same and not every day has the same weather.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

> Breathing test, to make sure you are not drunk.


Simply let another breathe, en then drive yourself...


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## H123Laci (Dec 6, 2007)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Simply let another breathe, en then drive yourself...


this trick doestn work with the seatbelt check:

the engine doesnt start with unfastened seatbelt, so the undrunk helper have to fasten it, but when s/he wants to get out s/he stops the engine by unfastening the belt... 


oops, the seat belt check can be cheated too:
you can fasten it before you get into the seat, and you can simply sit on it... :lol:


I think this safety incerasing thing wont be an easy task cause the stupidity and the ingenuity is infinite... :lol:


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## BND (May 31, 2007)

Simply the social insurance or what is it called shouldn't pay for the hospital treatment of those, who suffered an accident with a non-fastened seatbelt. I think only such measures could reduce the injuries, at least here in Hungary, since most of the deaths and injuries are because of the lack of using seatbelts. But with fining for speeding at a forgotten 30 km/h sign from a construction 3 months ago, the accident numbers won't be reduced.


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## ElviS77 (Aug 3, 2007)

gramercy said:


> and i think you are a nazi


Real mature... Hopefully you're not old enough to drive... 

The worst thing about arguments like this is that they'll give the control freaks all the arguments they need to introduce a completely driver-free controlled road system. Average speed measuring speed cameras already excist, as does GPS systems with speed limits, autopilots and a bunch of other pieces of control equipment. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to realise that such systems may be made mandatory and used to remove the driver from the driving altogether. And it will happen, unless we're able to root out the idiot drivers and accept less invasive means of control. 

I'm not going to elaborate on this part of the subject much further, since I prefer to discuss real safety measures with serious people.


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## ElviS77 (Aug 3, 2007)

BND said:


> But with fining for speeding at a forgotten 30 km/h sign from a construction 3 months ago, the accident numbers won't be reduced.


I totally agree. That's got nothing to do with safety or sensible traffic management.


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## Kelaerkelaer (Mar 15, 2009)

These guys convinced me. I used to be a safety nazi when it came to speeding cameras, but not anymore 


gramercy said:


>


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## 54°26′S 3°24′E (Oct 26, 2007)

Total said:


> So... if moving tree and standing tree have same effect...
> 
> I am in my car, standing, in neutral, with brakes on (just to be detailed), and tree hits me with 70 kph... nothing happened?
> 
> ...


You guys should learn some basic physics....

The point is that the momentum, i.e. mass-velocity product is always preserved. I.e., if you have one car of mass m1 traveling at speed v1 crashing into another car/tree with mass m2 and (negative) speed v2, we always have:
m1*v1-m2*v2=(m1+m2)*V,
where V is the speed of the system immediately after the crash.

Hence, if you crash into another car with similar speed and mass, the final speed will be V=0. Assuming that the cars are identical, they will then both absorb an energy of m1*v1²/2. 

If that other "car" in fact is a solid tree, which wont absorb any of your energy, your car still has to absorb m1*v1²/2 as the final speed will be zero. This is of course because the tree is connected to the ground which probably has very large masss compared with your car.... However, on a modern highway there should not be such trees along the roads, and light poles and sign posts should give way if you crash into them, or better be behind a well designed crash barrier, in which case the absorbed energy of your car would be significant less. Note that the absorbed energy in this case scales with your vehicle's mass. This is why some rather heavy, but rather badly designed cars, like Crysler Voyager (at least last time I checked), manage to do fairly badly at crash tests.

Now to the worst case: If vehicle two is a heavy truck, the final speed is close to -v2, and vehicle 1 has to absorb something like m1*(v1+v2)²/2 (assuming that the truck is much stiffer than your own vehicle).. I.e., the absorbed energy is close to four times what you get when you hit a tree or another normal car.


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## ElviS77 (Aug 3, 2007)

54°26′S 3°24′E;34114740 said:


> assuming that the truck is much stiffer than your own vehicle


Not to mention heavier...


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## 54°26′S 3°24′E (Oct 26, 2007)

ElviS77 said:


> Not to mention heavier...


Thank you for making that clear. Regarding that flying tree, I would be pretty worried if it aimed at my windscreen.....


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## ElviS77 (Aug 3, 2007)

54°26′S 3°24′E;34115460 said:


> Thank you for making that clear. Regarding that flying tree, I would be pretty worried if it aimed at my windscreen.....


Agreed. On a slightly more serious note, as you and Ingienøren (I think...) touched upon, one of the most important safety measures is to reduce the injuries sustained if someone ends up off the road at speed. Crash barriers, removing trees and rocks, wide, carefully thought out "exit zones" etc all save lives.


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## ElviS77 (Aug 3, 2007)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Simply let another breathe, en then drive yourself...


Sure... Do you think sober people would line up to assist a drunk person to start driving? I certainly hope not.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

That depends how accepted DUI is in a country. For instance, from what I've heard it's more accepted in Belgium than in the Netherlands. I don't think it would be hard to find someone at a party to help you start your car.


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## gramercy (Dec 25, 2008)

The worst thing is that the state and safety nazis are forever telling us their mantras but don't lift a finger to improve conditions.

Classic cases in point:
- lack of railrod over/underpasses
- lack of tens of thousands of cycle lanes
- lack of proper painting and signals at busy intersections
- lack of bypass roads (NIMBYs are telling us we dont need them and then blame "traffic" for accidents downtown): hungary alone needs at least 500 bypass roads RIGHT NOW, close to 3000 kms. chief among which: M0 western section would have already been built had it not been for NIMBYs
- incredible amount of dangerous potholes (hungary has over 150.000 known potholes after last winter!!!!)
- old backroads that date back to the rebuilding after WWII with LOTS of bumps, small but tight curves, trees "positioned" where the bend would countinue etc.


And then these morons and liars turn around and collect money from old ladies doing 59 at a 50 zone while letting cyclers without helmets or even lights go on. Introduce speed cameras just to TAX people in a covert way. Its sickening


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## ElviS77 (Aug 3, 2007)

ChrisZwolle said:


> That depends how accepted DUI is in a country. For instance, from what I've heard it's more accepted in Belgium than in the Netherlands. I don't think it would be hard to find someone at a party to help you start your car.


Still, it would make drunk driving much less likely even in countries where DUI is not frowned upon. Also, at least at Norwegian parties, most people who aren't designated drivers tend to be rather tipsy themselves...:cheers:


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## gramercy (Dec 25, 2008)

ElviS77 said:


> Real mature... Hopefully you're not old enough to drive...


glad to disappoint :stupid:


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## ElviS77 (Aug 3, 2007)

gramercy said:


> glad to disappoint :stupid:


Well, next time you have something as "interesting" to say, feel free to locate the resident cretins. On the off chance you'd rather prefer to discuss serious issues in a serious manner, try behaving as an adult.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Anyway, I think improvement of road safety starts with a decent and safe road network (such as some of the things Gramercy pointed out above), but the mentality of the public is also very important, such as in wearing seatbelts, excessive speeding or DUI. 

I think speed cameras have little to no effect to traffic safety, because they're often installed at cash locations instead of near schools or dangerous intersections. Awareness campaigns in the mass media are a better way of influencing the motorists. Also, I think undercover surveillance cars are much better, they can really pull over reckless drivers, and leave the ones that speed a little to no danger.


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## gramercy (Dec 25, 2008)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Also, I think undercover surveillance cars are much better, they can really pull over reckless drivers, and leave the ones that speed a little to no danger.


Why not institute a thought police with telepaths in the back seat.
Every time they pull up behind you and the telepath senses that you are listening to a Tiesto song they overtake you then put a bullet between your eyes. 

How's that?

in case some cretin didnt get it: JUST KIDDING


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## gramercy (Dec 25, 2008)

Clarkson said it the best about speed cameras: people who (1) already know they are there will slow down for the duration then go on and people who (2) are new to the location will be fixated on their speedometre going over everything from cats to newborn babies.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

I think mentality is more important than quality of roads. Not all roads can be good, and sooner or later you'll have to drive one, you can't drive solely on motorways and other main roads. In many societies people drive incredibly recklessly even on good roads/motorways.


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## Robosteve (Nov 6, 2008)

gramercy said:


> and do that faster than your nerves work, otherwise its gonna be painful


Not necessarily. Just remove the brain first at the source and leave the brain until last at the destination.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

gramercy said:


> and do that faster than your nerves work, otherwise its gonna be painful


...and boring to sit or even stand in the machine for hours, and possibly you'd be faster by train. Besides, it's kind of OT. :shifty:


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## Ingenioren (Jan 18, 2008)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driverless_car

I have great benefit of seing wich cars are parked and wich are about to drive in mixed street trafic, in Norway lights are lit automaticly when the engine is turned on.


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## ElviS77 (Aug 3, 2007)

Jeroen669 said:


> I think for most of the people who don't wear them it's just a bad habit, especially for older people. They learned to drive without them, so they feel safe enough to drive without it. At least, that would be my explanation.


Yor're probably right. However, even up here in the snowy winter hell called Norway, where seatbelts have been mandatory for ages, almost 10% of motorists don't use them, so it's not the entire explanation. Must admit I'm an offender myself; from time to time when I go a km or so in a 30 zone, I neglect to fasten it. Don't know why, really, and I tell myself I should use it. Stupid, I know...


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## ElviS77 (Aug 3, 2007)

I remember watching a Discovery series about traffic safety a few years ago. One of the claims made was that if you widen a road by a foot (I think...), average speed increases by 2 mph (again, this is my personal recollation...). Thus, it doesn't take long before a safety benefit from an improved roadway is eaten up by an increase in driving speed. Quite interesting, even though I don't think we should stop improving roads because of this... But if true, it shows you need to think carefully about how to improve roads, simply making something that's more efficient doesn't necessarily improve safety.


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## Jeroen669 (Nov 29, 2006)

ElviS77 said:


> One of the claims made was that if you widen a road by a foot (I think...), average speed increases by 2 mph (again, this is my personal recollation...). Thus, it doesn't take long before a safety benefit from an improved roadway is eaten up by an increase in driving speed.


That isn't so weird. If you have to pass an other car on a small street with just a few cms difference, you'd also not do that with 50km/h. The more space you have, the more comfortable it will feel to pass at a higher speed. That's a natural reaction. That's also the reason why speeddifferences between vehicles so much more influence have on traffic safety that speed itself.


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## gramercy (Dec 25, 2008)

I think is much-much more important to creat 2x1 roads with spearated intersections, such as there are around - for example - Barcelona.

These roads are NOT highways, and there are only 1 lanes / direction, BUT there are no perpendicular vechicles coming onto the road and everyone turning on/off has an easier way. 

When you are going in the main section, you have priority over everyone else. Long straight sections and a higher (possible 100-110 kph) speed, ringroads around towns, no railroad crossings allow for higher capacity as sell. 


Below you can see:
- a highway
- a main road with separation (upper left)
- a high speed railline
- a regular rail line


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## ElviS77 (Aug 3, 2007)

Jeroen669 said:


> That isn't so weird. If you have to pass an other car on a small street with just a few cms difference, you'd also not do that with 50km/h. The more space you have, the more comfortable it will feel to pass at a higher speed. That's a natural reaction. That's also the reason why speeddifferences between vehicles so much more influence have on traffic safety that speed itself.


I'm not saying it's weird, on the contrary, I think it's quite understandable. However, feeling safe and actually being safe are two different things. The main safety problem with an undivided road is head-on crashes, and they become more severe with increased speed. If memory serves me right, this was one of the main suspects when it came to increases in road fatalities. Roads seem safer, cars are safer, thus, we drive faster... and the safety benefit of the improved road vanishes. The same was said regarding T or X junctions: you may improve them, but unless you remake them into roundabouts or grade-separated systems, you won't really reduce the number of serious crashes. Roundabouts are interesting, since they often lead to more collisions, but fatality and serious injury rates drop.


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## Dr.Mabuse (Jun 6, 2009)

*What do you think of this idea? "share space" no signs, ONLY the Priority to the right rule.*

Hi!










http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space

for the lazy ones
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=shared+space&search_type=&aq=f

Some euro countries try this out and even in USA and Australia!

Seems it works...do you think you can adapt such a concept to a bigger city like LA or New York, Berlin oder London????


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

Its called pedestrian or limited-access street. Very old concept.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

I think it's good for places with nearly no traffic, such as historical city centers or shopping streets.

Otherwise I think it's a stupid idea. Make it look like Africa (no signs, markings or road layout) so everybody doesn't know what to do and has to slow down so bad that it's "safer".


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

And in the end we all know traffic "safety" in Africa..


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## Billpa (Feb 26, 2006)

I recently heard a radio show dedicated to the blind and sight-impaired on BBC Radio 4 about this topic. Many in the sight-impaired community are quite concerned about the lack of a curb which helps them determine where the pedestrian zone ends and the car/bike area begins.


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## Stainless (Jun 7, 2009)

I like the idea of this. It can mean instead of having to wait at lights then speed up and slow down you can carry on through at a slow speed but stop much less. Pedestrians no longer have to wait at lights but feel it is safe to cross in front of cars who are happy to slow down for them. It is simlar to the occasions when traffic lights fail, as nobody has priority everyone slows down and proceeds with caution while cooperating with other road users, then everyone passes the crossroads quicker.


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## Glodenox (Mar 26, 2007)

Stainless said:


> It is simlar to the occasions when traffic lights fail, as nobody has priority everyone slows down and proceeds with caution while cooperating with other road users, then everyone passes the crossroads quicker.


Sorry to pick in on just a part of your post, but as far as I'm aware, there are usually still signs on intersections which indicate which road has priority (Stop-signs, Give Way signs or priority diamonds). Those signs are to be followed if the lights are defect. And if there are no signs, there's the priority to the right rule (talking about Belgium, will certainly be different elsewhere).

Greetings,
Glodenox


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## Stainless (Jun 7, 2009)

Glodenox said:


> Sorry to pick in on just a part of your post, but as far as I'm aware, there are usually still signs on intersections which indicate which road has priority (Stop-signs, Give Way signs or priority diamonds). Those signs are to be followed if the lights are defect. And if there are no signs, there's the priority to the right rule (talking about Belgium, will certainly be different elsewhere).
> 
> Greetings,
> Glodenox


In the UK we don't tend to have that. Often one road will be wider than the side road and have separate lanes for people turning right so you could assume it has more priority but there is nothing to say it has. Whenever this has happened the traffic flows better and you don't find yourself sitting at a red light while nothing moves on the intersection. Generally we would have priority to the right like at a roundabout if there was no signs but as there is no overall rule everyone treats it with caution and moves over slow enough not to cause a collision if someone does something unexpected.


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## Dr.Mabuse (Jun 6, 2009)

*The Most Dangerous Roads in the World*

Have fun 
http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2006/11/most-dangerous-roads-in-world.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yungas_Road

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=most+dangerous+roads&search_type=&aq=f

:baeh3:









*EDIT*
normally i dont like and post those videos, but to give a view what makes the most dangerous in the road such dangerous. at 0:55 you see the brave man climbing in his truck. RIP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI6YJv163r4

Could there be any way to rescue the truck??????


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## shpirtkosova (Jun 7, 2009)

*Near Death Expirience Accidents*

Here is one from Greece which always fascinates me everytime I see this video:


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## shpirtkosova (Jun 7, 2009)

Moderator, please help, the video does not load up... Can anyone see it? Here is the link btw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tth9krDtxII


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## Timon91 (Feb 9, 2008)

You've put the whole URL between youtube tags. You should only put the code after "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=" between those tags.

Horrible accident, that guy is pretty lucky to survive without a stratch.


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## keber (Nov 8, 2006)

Looking at his reaction, survival was probably the least concern.:lol:


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## Goyazny (Feb 1, 2009)

This goes to " women driver ".
Check this out:


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## DanMs (Apr 16, 2006)

^^ haha


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## bleetz (Feb 13, 2009)

shpirtkosova said:


> Here is one from Greece which always fascinates me everytime I see this video:


It is not that fascinating. My friend was once hit by a car while cycling in a similar way to the guy shown in this video. He thought he was feeling fine and even had an argument with the guy who hit him, but on his way to the hospital he realised that he had pissed all over himself and then some time later he lost his consciousness. Its called shock, I'd like to see a video of this guy 30 minutes later.


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## Mateusz (Feb 14, 2007)

Once car smacked my shoulder when I waslking on the street, I fell onto ground but didn't die


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

shpirtkosova said:


> Here is one from Greece which always fascinates me everytime I see this video:


That guy (with the motorbike) is really very lucky: after that crush looks really O.K.


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## fail (Sep 25, 2009)

In Russia there're a lot of car crahes:cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

^^ some stuff I noticed

1) Red light running
2) lack of traffic lights at wide boulevards
3) high-speed head-on collisions
4) generally stupid behaviour
5) lack of divided roads


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

I wonder if the Russian government knows about the problems of Russian drivers. Probably not.


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## fail (Sep 25, 2009)

Here is another video about driving russians, they can't wait for a red light I see.





 
But what was that truck driver @ 3.05 thinking?? :nuts:


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## Timon91 (Feb 9, 2008)

I see that it takes some effort to survive a drive in Russia, sometimes they really seem to cause an accident on purpose  :jk:


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Nah, Moscow is a city with almost as much inhabitants as the entire Netherlands. More people concentrated in one area = also more accidents concentrated in one area.

No doubt that Moscow /Russia is less safe than the Netherlands though, but we are übersafe.


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

I noticed that most of the accidents in the first russian video cause by wet road with the extremely fast speed limit of those cars


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## Timon91 (Feb 9, 2008)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nah, Moscow is a city with almost as much inhabitants as the entire Netherlands. More people concentrated in one area = also more accidents concentrated in one area.
> 
> No doubt that Moscow /Russia is less safe than the Netherlands though, but we are übersafe.


I know, but that's why I added the :jk: smiley 

Most of those accidents seem to happen at the same junctions anyway, it's not like the whole city is completely unsafe.


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## shpirtkosova (Jun 7, 2009)

Wow those roads in Moscow are very wide, maybe they should be expressways with barriers between which they do not seem to have. I also agree they do not seem to like red lights too much.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

bleetz said:


> It is not that fascinating. My friend was once hit by a car while cycling in a similar way to the guy shown in this video. He thought he was feeling fine and even had an argument with the guy who hit him, but on his way to the hospital he realised that he had pissed all over himself and then some time later he lost his consciousness. Its called shock, I'd like to see a video of this guy 30 minutes later.


I know what losing consciousness is like.


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

Also nioticed from both videos that many drivers in Moscow streets, the drive uncarefully with maximum speeds, that's why they are so many accidents


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## shpirtkosova (Jun 7, 2009)

christos-greece said:


> Also nioticed from both videos that many drivers in Moscow streets, the drive uncarefully with maximum speeds, that's why they are so many accidents


Are you a Greek? What is the guy on the my first video saying to the car driver?


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## Mr_Dru (Dec 15, 2008)

*Netherlands Highway patrol*

Policemotor hits by a car! A bit shocking to see it hno:

He was escorting an Ambulance


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## shpirtkosova (Jun 7, 2009)

Mr_Dru said:


> *Netherlands Highway patrol*
> 
> Policemotor hits by a car! A bit shocking to see it hno:
> 
> He was escorting an Ambulance


Very sad indeed, I hope he survived.


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## Timon91 (Feb 9, 2008)

AFAIK he did


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## Angelos (Dec 20, 2006)

shpirtkosova said:


> Are you a Greek? What is the guy on the my first video saying to the car driver?


He is saying "For **** sake, you have red, you have red" then he walks away after that i cant hear what they say although the woman says something about green light


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

^^ Exactly that... he accuses her about passing with red light...



Mr_Dru said:


> *Netherlands Highway patrol*
> Policemotor hits by a car! A bit shocking to see it hno:
> He was escorting an Ambulance


hno: I hope he is O.K. too...


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## RipleyLV (Jun 4, 2008)

Death... nobody knows where and when, but it will come.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7-Yg8HUd4g

PS: Lol at p*****.net


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## Jeroen669 (Nov 29, 2006)

^^ The music couldn't be more dramatic. These are the vids to become quiet of...



christos-greece said:


> hno: I hope he is O.K. too...


"Agent raakt zwaargewond" means: Officer becomes heavily injured.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

RipleyLV said:


> Death... nobody knows where and when, but it will come.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7-Yg8HUd4g
> 
> PS: Lol at p*****.net


The video is sad, but at least 'pizdec' is funny.


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## Timon91 (Feb 9, 2008)

Sad video. I remember a video that someone posted on the Wegenforum with pictures of fatal accidents. The fact that I remember it well says enough hno:


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

^^ Indeed hno:


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## Highwaycrazy (Oct 2, 2009)

a truck passes illegally forcing oncoming cars into the shoulder; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtJd6E-uoTw&feature=channel_page


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## Timon91 (Feb 9, 2008)

mg: That guy is lucky that the oncoming traffic can move to the shoulder!


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

I found this video about this tunnel in Moscow city; maximum speed and careless on the icy road cause the problems below...


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Tunnels leaking water is a problem all across the world. But in Moscow it's bigger because of the lower temperatures I guess..


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

^^ Probably low temperatures yes...


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## TheCat (Apr 21, 2006)

RipleyLV said:


> Death... nobody knows where and when, but it will come.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7-Yg8HUd4g
> 
> PS: Lol at p*****.net


According to some of the comments, the person who was hit actually survived.


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## Xpressway (Dec 2, 2006)

RipleyLV said:


> Death... nobody knows where and when, but it will come.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7-Yg8HUd4g
> 
> PS: Lol at p*****.net


The pedestrian survived, and that's one awful edition of that video.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/accident/pedestrian.asp


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## gigilamoroso (Dec 10, 2008)

*Russia...wow*

Russia...rotten politicians...rotten drivers...rotten road planning...wow...seems like a nice country to live.

I can see lots of criminal behaviours here. Of course always with innocent people killed or injured.


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## aswnl (Jun 6, 2004)

Timon91 said:


> AFAIK he did


Last week I heard he still is in a coma...

By the way, it was a foolish action by the police-officer. There was no need to wipe the right lane free from traffic at all, and if that had to be done, a red cross could be shown on the signalling system.

However you never wish someone a faith like this... hno:


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

New video:




Do you know what that man says in Russian?


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## TheCat (Apr 21, 2006)

^^
Well, I'm completely bored during my lunch break at university, so I will try  This is more like a summary, not a word-by-word translation. I also did not include the names of the places, since I am not familiar with them.

"The yellow light appears, but whoever rushes, won't cross the intersection in time. The police video camera shows that the law was broken by both drivers: the first driver started driving on yellow, and the second tried to run the intersection on red. The meeting happened exactly in the middle."

"On this square, the same picture. The truck stops on yellow, but the other car decides to pass it, and 'meeting' the other car is inevitable. Both cars say goodbye to their bumpers. The driver who had the green was so surprised that he forgot to even use the brake, rolling beyond the camera's field of view."

"On this square, drivers like to drive perpendicularly to the road, and on red lights. It seems that the Russian car was being chased by an import, whose trajectory was corrected by an unsuspecting driver making a legal left turn."

"The same bridge over the river, but now an acrobatic episode. The driver decided to make a left turn without reducing speed, ending up on the roof."

"It turns out that it is dangerous to cross the ring road even on a green light during the day. It is possible to end up on the right side."

"On the same ring road, it is also possible to get a frontal hit by the rear end of another car. The imported car having lost control caused havoc on all lanes of the drivable surface."

"Motorway, night, the speed is 100 km/h and higher. But for someone even that is not enough, so passing is done even on the dividing line. The maneuver didn't work out - the driver chipped the car in the opposing left-most lane, causing a chain reaction. Almost no one could brake in time."

"And this is another road; two cars are stationary with their emergency lights on. The driver of one of them is trying to find the cause of the unexpected stop under the hood. But suddenly, a 'checkers-style' driver who makes a sharp lane change is not able to control the vehicle. The stopped car turns over and covers its owner. Only because of a miracle he is able to survive and even independently crawl from under the car, at which moment help arrived."


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

^^ Thanks for the translate @TheCat
The most accidents made because they (drivers) pass with a red light hno:


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