# White vs. Yellow central divider line



## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

I am wondering what other countries besides N. America use yellow line that divides traffic moving in opposite direction? I know that in Europe only Finland and Norway paint central line in yellow colour. In Asia, it seems that Thailand and Indonesia both have yellow line as well. What about the rest of the world?


----------



## acela (Jun 24, 2004)

Malaysia uses white colour and only uses yellow colour when there is a road construction.


----------



## invincible (Sep 13, 2002)

I'm pretty sure yellow is used in New Zealand.

Yellow is also used in (the very few) parts of Australia which receive snowfalls.


----------



## vince_rilian (Jun 2, 2006)

In the Philippines, highways have yellow lines along urban/built up areas, but when you reach rural areas, they're often painted with white lines... while some roads, even if they are major roads, still use white lines...


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

invincible said:


> I'm pretty sure yellow is used in New Zealand.


In New Zealand, only a no-passing lane is painted in yellow. So, I think NZ still falls under the category of white central line.


----------



## Billpa (Feb 26, 2006)

If I'm not mistaken, most, if not all, South American countries use yellow- at least the pictures I've seen would suggest that. Also, I believe South Africa uses yellow on the edge and not the center.


----------



## pilotos (Jan 24, 2007)

In Greece, we use white lanes, yellow lanes are quite rare and i 've only see yellow lanes in mountain roads or in places with a lot of fogue, and yellow lanes also indicate that its forbidden to drive or park there.


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

The Netherlands use white markings.

Yellow is only in temporary situations, with road works, or, in special cases, when a line is drawn on the pavement, it means no parking along this pavement.


----------



## pilotos (Jan 24, 2007)

> The Netherlands use white markings.
> 
> Yellow is only in temporary situations, with road works, or, in special cases, when a line is drawn on the pavement, it means no parking along this pavement.


Also in Greece yellow lanes can be found in in temporary situations, such as construction works.


----------



## balasto (Jul 29, 2006)

Chris1491 said:


> The Netherlands use white markings.
> 
> Yellow is only in temporary situations, with road works, or, in special cases, when a line is drawn on the pavement, it means no parking along this pavement.


Same as in Spain.


----------



## BL (Feb 14, 2006)

vince_rilian said:


> In the Philippines, highways have yellow lines along urban/built up areas, but when you reach rural areas, they're often painted with white lines... while some roads, even if they are major roads, still use white lines...


it means there is no rule.


----------



## snupix (Apr 27, 2005)

balasto said:


> Same as in Spain.


It's EU standard, so it's the same within the EU (I still don't know how Sweden can use yellow traffic signs - in Croatia we had to change them to white bc of the EU)


----------



## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

snupix said:


> It's EU standard, so it's the same within the EU (I still don't know how Sweden can use yellow traffic signs - in Croatia we had to change them to white bc of the EU)


Aren't a lot of traffic signs in Finland also yellow?


----------



## snupix (Apr 27, 2005)

Rebasepoiss said:


> Aren't a lot of traffic signs in Finland also yellow?


I think they are. (The background is not white, but yellow)


----------



## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

A finnish road:


----------



## TheCat (Apr 21, 2006)

In Israel, a yellow line is used to mark the outer edges of the road and is
mandatory on all roads without a curb (so all non-urban roads). It is actually
very good, because in other countries often the edge is not clearly marked
and it is dangerous at night.

Here are a few examples:

























Double dashed yellow lines are used to mark public transportation lanes:









And lastly, red lines are temporary lines in construction zones.
However, I also like the North American system, because I think it is convenient
to have a different colour for separate directions. A third colour perhaps?


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

snupix said:


> It's EU standard, so it's the same within the EU (I still don't know how Sweden can use yellow traffic signs - in Croatia we had to change them to white bc of the EU)


Traffic signs with yellow background are perfectly legal as defined in the Vienna Convention from 1968. I personally don't like them, but I understand why they make sense in the countries that have heavy snowfalls in winter.


----------



## x-type (Aug 19, 2005)

in Italy sometimes appear yellow lines even without special situations. check out the picture









Croatia (and all former Yugoslav countries) had yellow edge lines on motorways and statal roads, but in last few years it has been changed and there are no more yellow lines (except in special situations). interesting thing: while we had yellow edge lines, special situations had been signed with red lines


----------



## Otis LA (Dec 21, 2004)

BRAZIL follows United States pattern, with yellow lines dividing opposite directions. But the continuous yellow line at left in duplicated roads are quite rare. White is common in this case (sorry, my english is not very good...).


----------



## TheCat (Apr 21, 2006)

x-type said:


> ...
> Croatia (and all former Yugoslav countries) had yellow edge lines on motorways and statal roads, but in last few years it has been changed and there are no more yellow lines (except in special situations). interesting thing: while we had yellow edge lines, special situations had been signed with red lines


Interesting, the second pic is similar to Israel, but in Israel the yellow line appears only
at the absolute edge, so on a highway like the one you posted, the line separating
the carriageways would be white, whereas the far right line would be yellow.
If you encounter a road marked like the one in your second picture, drivers
would assume they can only travel on the rightmost lane


----------



## ryanr (Sep 11, 2002)

It is yellow in the Philippines too:


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

China (Karakoram Highway in Xinjiang


----------



## Norsko (Feb 22, 2007)

In Norway lines that divides traffic moving in opposite direction are yellow, while lines that dividies traffic moving in the same direction (f.eks. on motorways) are white. The lines at the edge of the road are allways white.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

Seems like Sout Korea and China both have yellow central line. I updated the map.


----------



## gronier (Mar 2, 2005)

In Chile, only roads where there's a lot of snowfall, central line is yellow, in the other roads it's white


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

gronier said:


> In Chile, only roads were there's a lot of snowfall, central line is yellow, in the other roads it's white


I think it might be confusing. IMO, it is better to use either always white or always yellow central line without switching colours.


----------



## TheCat (Apr 21, 2006)

^^ I agree. I actually like the yellow central line in North America (and some
other countries). Although rare, ambiguities may arise in some occasions,
especially on roads with multiple lanes into each direction where even the line
separating opposite directions is dashed (I think in Germany there are such roads,
in which case they use a slightly thicker dashed line to indicate the separation).
So I think the yellow divider is a simple and effective way to get rid of all
ambiguities.

However, I also like the yellow line used at the edges of the road, like in Israel
and South Africa. On country roads at night it adds to safety, because the
driver easily knows that the yellow line is a "do not cross under any circumstance"
line. That yellow line actually also aids to some degree in distinguishing opposite
lanes of traffic, because a yellow line to your far left indicates you are travelling
on a 2-lane road where you share the traffic, whereas a white one indicates
you're probably on a motorway since the only edge marked by the yellow
line is on your right.


----------



## Nephasto (Feb 6, 2004)

TheCat said:


> Although rare, ambiguities may arise in some occasions,
> especially on roads with multiple lanes into each direction where even the line
> separating opposite directions is dashed (I think in Germany there are such roads,
> in which case they use a slightly thicker dashed line to indicate the separation).



Roads with multiple lanes into each direction where even the line
separating opposite directions is dashed??
Does that exist? I mean, by portuguese laws that would be forbidden, and I guess that by any reasonable law it would be forbidden too.
If there are multiple lanes into each direction but there's no divider, the line in the middle should allways be solid, not dashed. Because it's allways forbidden to cross that line, because you don't need the other direction lane to takeover, as it hapens with 1 lane per direction roads.


----------



## ADCS (Oct 30, 2006)

Nephasto said:


> Roads with multiple lanes into each direction where even the line
> separating opposite directions is dashed??
> Does that exist? I mean, by portuguese laws that would be forbidden, and I guess that by any reasonable law it would be forbidden too.
> If there are multiple lanes into each direction but there's no divider, the line in the middle should allways be solid, not dashed. Because it's allways forbidden to cross that line, because you don't need the other direction lane to takeover, as it hapens with 1 lane per direction roads.


I have seen several two lane roads where in an area with steep grades, there are extra climbing lanes for trucks. That is a possibility for where there would be two dashed lines signifying same way and opposing way.


----------



## Nephasto (Feb 6, 2004)

ADCS said:


> I have seen several two lane roads where in an area with steep grades, there are extra climbing lanes for trucks. That is a possibility for where there would be two dashed lines signifying same way and opposing way.


I've seen that in many places, but in those cases, the dashed line in between the two directions turns into a solid line when the extra lane appears.
At least here in Portugal.


I have a photo of one taken in Portugal(taken in the direction with 2 lanes):









The line between opposite directions is a mixed solid/dashed line. Solid for those travelling on the direction with 2 lanes, and dashed for those travelling in the direction with just one lane (who need to go to the lane in the opposite direction to overtake).

There's allways a solid or mixed solid/dashed line between directions, so there's no confusion.


----------



## TheCat (Apr 21, 2006)

Nephasto said:


> Roads with multiple lanes into each direction where even the line
> separating opposite directions is dashed??


I agree. To tell you the truth, I've seen it in a driving simulator in a virtual
part of Berlin  Here are 2 screenshots I made:


----------



## Nephasto (Feb 6, 2004)

^^Well, shot's from a driving simulatar aren't good enough for me.
I need to see real photo's to believe in it!


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

Nephasto said:


> Roads with multiple lanes into each direction where even the line
> separating opposite directions is dashed??


I have seen it in France, but in those cases central line was at least twice thicker and it was dashed with shorter intervals.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

TheCat said:


> To tell you the truth, I've seen it in a driving simulator in a virtual
> part of Berlin  Here are 2 screenshots I made:


Nowhere in Europe have I seen such wide lanes and empty streets. Nowhere :lol:


----------



## x-type (Aug 19, 2005)

in Barcelona at Diagonal!!! all are dashed!:lol: :lol: of course, only reason is changable traffic ragulation (arrows and X'es on portals above)


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> I have seen it in France, but in those cases central line was at least twice thicker and it was dashed with shorter intervals.


It's called a suicide lane.:lol:


----------



## Nephasto (Feb 6, 2004)

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> I have seen it in France, but in those cases central line was at least twice thicker and it was dashed with shorter intervals.



But that's in city avenues, or in highways?
I guess in avenues.


----------



## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

Lanes with changable traffic direction are always dashed.....It has to be....Otherwise you wouldn't be allowed to cross it.


----------



## Nicolás (Dec 17, 2005)

Nephasto said:


> ^^Well, shot's from a driving simulatar aren't good enough for me.
> I need to see real photo's to believe in it!


Yeah, it's really like that sometimes - very confusing in bigger cities hno: I don't really like that. But it's true, the line is a bit thicker a dashed different but not always.


----------



## Bartolo (Sep 20, 2004)

In Ontario all a solid line means is its recommended to not cross onto the other side, double solid line mean very strongly recommended to not onto other side of the road. Its only illegal to pass when there is a sign that says, "No passing"


----------



## I(L)WTC (Jan 30, 2010)

Di-brazil said:


> I(L)WTC said:
> 
> 
> > Republica Argentina
> ...


----------



## TheCat (Apr 21, 2006)

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ I happened to drive there again 1.5 weeks ago:
> This is in the other direction:
> http://i42.tinypic.com/2lkzfkh.jpg


Heh it is very similar to the Canadian/American simultaneous left-turn lane, I've never seen them in Europe. But I think in that NL case you can only turn from one direction?

In Canada/US they are used to turn from both directions (which does sometimes cause potentially dangerous conflicts when drivers from opposite directions enter the lane at the same time - but as long as you are careful they work well and I like them).

We also often use them to enter a very wide and busy road from a driveway, because you can enter it when there is no traffic coming from the left only, and then signal and wait until the right side of the road is clear (here, again, there is the danger of cars entering from the right side, so caution must be exercised).


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

TheCat said:


> Heh it is very similar to the Canadian/American simultaneous left-turn lane, I've never seen them in Europe. But I think in that NL case you can only turn from one direction?


It's on the N63 4-lane divided highway in Belgium. It is basically a left-turn lane for property access. Since properties are only to the right on that picture, using this lane would only make sense in one direction. It's the first time I've seen this in Europe as well.


----------



## Bartolo (Sep 20, 2004)

In a lot of places in Ontario they will get rid of two lanes on a four lane road and put in a Centre left turn lane, especially on roads with lots of driveways


----------



## Fargo Wolf (Oct 23, 2009)

Bartolo said:


> In a lot of places in Ontario they will get rid of two lanes on a four lane road and put in a Centre left turn lane, especially on roads with lots of driveways


There's a central left turn lane in the community of Cache Creek, an hour west of where I live. It's on HWY 1 in the south area of the town and is used so drivers can access several motels and a gas (petrol) station.


----------



## Ron2K (Dec 28, 2007)

Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but New Zealand has an equivalent of a central turning lane.


----------



## Di-brazil (Sep 12, 2009)

I(L)WTC said:


> Di-brazil said:
> 
> 
> > no por?
> ...


----------



## Di-brazil (Sep 12, 2009)

\New Zealand


----------



## Nima-Farid (Jul 13, 2010)

In Iran it was yellow but it's changing to white


----------



## engenx4 (Jul 2, 2010)

in Brazil we use only the yellow


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

In some countries (mostly developing countries), they use yellow lines for the edge markings. Is this some bad rip-off where they didn't understood what the American yellow markings mean, or does it have some other kind of meaning?


----------



## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

ChrisZwolle said:


> In some countries (mostly developing countries), they use yellow lines for the edge markings. Is this some bad rip-off where they didn't understood what the American yellow markings mean, or does it have some other kind of meaning?


I guess it's more important to them to avoid running off the road than to avoid hitting other traffic...? (Ireland does this)


----------



## dizee (Apr 3, 2006)

In the case of Ireland, it's exactly the same as the US - just the carriageways are on the opposite sides.  Yellow on the left, white on the right - simple.

Seriously though it's almost certainly because it's more important to mark the edge of the road clearly, especially considering the quality of some of our (mostly minor) roads, many of which haven't been realigned since they were old country tracks.


----------



## TheCat (Apr 21, 2006)

Israel also does this (yellow on the edge, white in the middle). As you said, that's exactly the reason - it is to clearly mark the edge of the road, which indeed IMO is more important than marking the centre line, especially at night on 2-lane country roads.

Technically I have no problem with a white line at the edge (I do like the yellow centre line here in NA), but I do have a problem with the edge lines not being drawn or being completely faded (as is the case on many country roads here in Canada). Driving on some of them at night is brutal.


----------



## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

TheCat said:


> Israel also does this (yellow on the edge, white in the middle). As you said, that's exactly the reason - it is to clearly mark the edge of the road, which indeed IMO is more important than marking the centre line, especially at night on 2-lane country roads.
> 
> Technically I have no problem with a white line at the edge (I do like the yellow centre line here in NA), but I do have a problem with the edge lines not being drawn or being completely faded (as is the case on many country roads here in Canada). Driving on some of them at night is brutal.


Yup, in Virginia, roads either have no lines, a centerline, or center and edge lines. They never do as some European roads do and have only edge lines and no centerline.


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

TheCat said:


> it is to clearly mark the edge of the road, which indeed IMO is more important than marking the centre line, especially at night on 2-lane country roads.
> .


It's kind of appalling that over-safety-conscious Netherlands uses no edge markings on the most dangerous roads (narrow ones with trees next to the roadway). Apparently, the idea of someone going 10 km over the limit is worse than someone hitting a tree dead on. hno:

(Netherlands = speed nazi country).


----------



## TheCat (Apr 21, 2006)

^^ Heh what I like about NL is that all the lines that you do have on the roads are always clearly visible (at least from what I saw, both in photos and personally while being there). In Canada maintenance often can't keep up, and it's common to have many 2-lane roads in rural areas whose lines (especially the edge lines) are faded and sometimes almost completely invisible.

Also, the roads in Ontario (don't know about the rest of Canada) do not place those reflective posts at regular intervals at the edges of such country roads, something that is common in many European countries. They have a similar effect even if edge lines are not visible and there are no other devices like cat eyes.


----------



## x-type (Aug 19, 2005)

ChrisZwolle said:


> In some countries (mostly developing countries), they use yellow lines for the edge markings. Is this some bad rip-off where they didn't understood what the American yellow markings mean, or does it have some other kind of meaning?


i don't see a reason why wouldn't it be yellow. the same as some countries (lead by France) use dashed line for the edges (and I will never adapt on that). i actually liked when we had yellow edge markings till 2001.


----------



## RoadUser (Aug 10, 2007)

TheCat said:


> Israel also does this (yellow on the edge, white in the middle). As you said, that's exactly the reason - it is to clearly mark the edge of the road, which indeed IMO is more important than marking the centre line, especially at night on 2-lane country roads.


I read that Israel is going over to white edge lines to conform to some standard or other.

I don't know when this is supposed to happen but apparently we have a few more years of yellow lines.

Personally I'm not bothered either way. I've never had any trouble working out which side is the outer edge of the road, whatever colour it is.


----------



## TheCat (Apr 21, 2006)

^^ Oh really? That's news to me. I think that's unfortunate, since those yellow edge lines did provide better emphasis and visibility at night. Like you say, it is not necessary, but it's a nice feature. But as long as the lines are maintained and always visible, it doesn't matter as much what colour is used. Is Israel trying to follow the Geneva Convention more precisely?


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

I made that word up. In the last 15 years, a new approach has entered the Netherlands in terms of traffic safety. Despite the country being one of the safest in Europe for decades, they took more drastic steps. Nearly 90% of all rural road speed limits were lowered from 80 to 60 km/h, except for most numbered N-roads which remained 80 km/h. Besides that, thousands of the lowest design standard (R=18) roundabouts have been constructed along N-roads, plus city limits have expanded, a more aggressive traffic calming has been implemented and completely ridiculous passing bans have been put into place. Lots of 100 km/h roads were also downgraded to 80 km/h. The only way Dutch N-roads are going is down. Road widths are reduced, main non-urban roads have lane widths of only 2.75 m, meaning trucks have less than 10 cm on each side to maneuver. Shoulders are removed, as are many SOS bays. The road markings have been changed to make it visually less attractive to drive fast. Sometimes side markings are over 1 m from the side to optically reduce road width (you cannot pass each other within the road markings!)

Here's a visualization; a rural road, downgraded from 80 to 60 km/h, road markings further from the edge, road width reduced and replaced by rumble strips. But why? There is a separate two-way bicycle facility.


----------



## ssusa (Aug 1, 2010)

Fabri88 said:


> In Italy we have solid white lines at the side of the road and a broken white line in the middle.
> 
> Solid line in the middle means "overtaking forbidden" and "U-turn forbidden". Sometimes this line is double to strenghten the meaning.
> 
> In the middle of some roads you can find a mix of one solid and one broken line. This means that overtaking is allowed only to cars that are in the side in which there is broken line!


Some what similar to USA road l lines except we have two yellow solid lines and/or one side solid and one side broken where over take is allowed.


----------



## Fabri88 (Feb 9, 2011)

Thank you for the answer Chris.

I want to correct myself: solid middle line doesn't mean that overtaking is forbidden, but only that you can not cross that line.

For example: if you have the space and you have a little car driving slowly in front of you, you can overtake it but you can't pass the solid line.

If overtaking is forbidden there will be a plate on your side of the road.


----------



## Fargo Wolf (Oct 23, 2009)

Canada:

Double solid: Overtaking forbidden.
Single solid: In rural ares: Pass with care. In urban areas, I think it means no overtaking.
Single solid with broken line on one side: Overtaking permitted on side with broken line. Oncoming traffic may NOT overtake.
Broken line: Overtaking in either direction permitted.


----------



## Bartolo (Sep 20, 2004)

Fargo Wolf said:


> Canada:
> 
> Double solid: Overtaking forbidden.
> Single solid: In rural ares: Pass with care. In urban areas, I think it means no overtaking.
> ...


Passing is not allowed only when there are signs that state no passing, atleast that is the rule in Ontario. The lines are only suggestions.


----------



## Gareth (Apr 27, 2004)

The UK uses double-yellow lines extensively at the side for parking restrictions. Although it makes it quite clear where you cannot park, I've always felt they make UK roads look a bit scruffy, to be honest.


----------



## Fargo Wolf (Oct 23, 2009)

Bartolo said:


> Passing is not allowed only when there are signs that state no passing, atleast that is the rule in Ontario. The lines are only suggestions.


Here's what I was able to find online. You'll have to scroll down to get to the pavement marking section.

http://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/Getting-licensed/drivers3.pdf


----------



## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

Gareth said:


> The UK uses double-yellow lines extensively at the side for parking restricitons. Although it makes it quite clear where you cannot park. I've always felt they make UK roads look a bit scruffy, to be honest.


We will occasionally paint the curb yellow for that.


----------



## Gareth (Apr 27, 2004)

Painted kerbs are even more scruffy. 

I do like the thinner variant of yellow lines we have in the UK for conservation areas. Not only are they thinner, the yellow is much milder. I'd rather these wre standard, to be honest.


----------



## TheCat (Apr 21, 2006)

I must agree that lines or curb markings that signify parking restriction are much clearer than signs. The parking signs in Ontario (and I presume in the rest of Canada and the US) are often extremely confusing, because it's often not clear what side of the road they apply to, what side of the sign, etc. You always have to hunt for one if you don't happen to see any signs in the immediate vicinity.


----------



## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

I also like painted lines better than signs but...
-Road markings don't last very long in our climate.
-Painted lines are pretty much useless if they're covered by snow for 3 months a year.


----------



## Gareth (Apr 27, 2004)

^^ True. Snow does obscure road markings. Really, both signs & markings should be applied, to cover all bases.


----------



## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

A question for those countries that use yellow lines:
As we know in countries with white central divider lines like here in Greece, when the road its not completed, or in that section they do some works on the road, usually they use the yellow line to indicate the problem or that the road its not completed. In the countries that they use the yellow lines, examble U.S., Brazil etc in what signs or colours use to indicate the problem or that the section/road is uncompleted, under construction etc? I talking about the plain roads with 1 lane in each direction.


----------



## ScraperDude (Sep 15, 2002)

christos-greece said:


> A question for those countries that use yellow lines:
> As we know in countries with white central divider lines like here in Greece, when the road its not completed, or in that section they do some works on the road, usually they use the yellow line to indicate the problem or that the road its not completed. In the countries that they use the yellow lines, examble U.S., Brazil etc in what signs or colours use to indicate the problem or that the section/road is uncompleted, under construction etc? I talking about the plain roads with 1 lane in each direction.


In the US they use big orange signs, orange and white reflective barrels in construction zones. Sometimes they will line the construction area divider lines with solid yellow or white reflectors.


----------



## Fargo Wolf (Oct 23, 2009)

ScraperDude said:


> In the US they use big orange signs, orange and white reflective barrels in construction zones. Sometimes they will line the construction area divider lines with solid yellow or white reflectors.


It's pretty much the same in Canada. Major projects are well signed with orange construction signs and, on major works variable message boards. If pavement markings are removed on arterial routes, sometimes reflective tape is used. As am currently employed in setting up and taking down roadworks signage, I can show you the manual that is used in the Province of British Columbia, Canada (PDF files):

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/publications/eng_publications/TCM/Traffic_Control_Manual.htm


----------



## Ingenioren (Jan 18, 2008)

We use the same white and yellow markings trough construction-zone. Only difference is speed-limit and warning signs are yellow.


----------



## Northsider (Jan 16, 2006)

I find it entirely confusing when other countries don't use yellow to divide opposing traffic. Often I see dashed white lines to mark lanes and then a solid or dashed white line to mark opposing traffic. Huh?! How is this not confusing for people?


----------



## ScraperDude (Sep 15, 2002)

Fargo Wolf said:


> It's pretty much the same in Canada. Major projects are well signed with orange construction signs and, on major works variable message boards. If pavement markings are removed on arterial routes, sometimes reflective tape is used. As am currently employed in setting up and taking down roadworks signage, I can show you the manual that is used in the Province of British Columbia, Canada (PDF files):
> 
> http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/publications/eng_publications/TCM/Traffic_Control_Manual.htm


I was just in Toronto this weekend, drove up from Ohio and hit a few construction zones on the QEW. I'm not a fan of the orange/black stripe construction barrels. I find them harder to see at night.


----------



## Fargo Wolf (Oct 23, 2009)

ScraperDude said:


> I was just in Toronto this weekend, drove up from Ohio and hit a few construction zones on the QEW. I'm not a fan of the orange/black stripe construction barrels. I find them harder to see at night.


Those are kinda dark. Quebec has bright barrels which I like. They are reflective white, with reflective fluorescent orange stripes.


----------



## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Northsider said:


> I find it entirely confusing when other countries don't use yellow to divide opposing traffic. Often I see dashed white lines to mark lanes and then a solid or dashed white line to mark opposing traffic. Huh?! How is this not confusing for people?


If you live with it, you get used to it. Generally, the centre lines and the lane dividing lines look a bit different, but sometimes this is not a case, for example a road in Staines, UK, has a section like this;

---
---
---
---


----------



## IceCheese (Dec 20, 2006)

devo said:


> Yes, finally! I've never understood why we kept the yellow divider away from dual carriageways. Now, you deserve to be properly banned for driving if you're able to go against the traffic...
> 
> I just hope they make a swift change to clarify the process. And, that they take road markings serious and repaint them every year after the stupid studded tires have removed them.


The regions are given 4 years to complete the change, and are instructed to prioritize ramps, according to Veien & Vi: http://www.vegvesen.no/_attachment/331942/binary/579283


----------



## rilham2new (Oct 28, 2006)

In Riau Province, Indonesia ... I think we have both. But, we just don't understand how the yellow line works (most of the time).

Like this one is Ordinary National Road to neighboring province (we dont have expressway/highway). In Indonesia we drive on the left side of the road anyway.

ALL WHITE
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6234279795/in/photostream/









And in some stretch we have YELLOW on the left.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6234234607/in/photostream/








http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4725096578/in/photostream/









There's a national road inside the city proper 3x3 ordinary road heading to the airport. It now has YELLOW on the right instead :nuts:. This is inside the city of Pekanbaru
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6223469068/in/photostream/









In the city center..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6203589913/in/photostream/









In Indonesia, we have three level of Road Management, National Road (developed and maintained by Central Government), Provincial Road (developed and maintained by Provincial Government), and City/Regent Road (developed and maintained by Local City/County Government). 

We have Tollway as well, developed and maintained by private company. We dont have it here in Riau Province.

I honestly believe there are such rules in Indonesia. There are no regulations. Some lanes are wider, some lanes are narrower. Just thing that I dont understand.


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

I get the idea some Asian countries want to copy the "American" yellow road markings, but don't understand the concept, so they just paint some markings yellow and the others white. Sometimes the outer marking, sometimes the inner markings, etc.


----------



## MattiG (Feb 11, 2011)

ChrisZwolle said:


> I get the idea some Asian countries want to copy the "American" yellow road markings, but don't understand the concept, so they just paint some markings yellow and the others white. Sometimes the outer marking, sometimes the inner markings, etc.


Does the color matter, if people just ignore the markings regardless of the colour?


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Still, you have to begin somewhere. You don't improve traffic safety by accepting people disregard any traffic rules. If traffic is civilized in Europe, it can also be civilized in Asia or Africa. Decent road markings are a good place to start.


----------



## MattiG (Feb 11, 2011)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Still, you have to begin somewhere. You don't improve traffic safety by accepting people disregard any traffic rules. If traffic is civilized in Europe, it can also be civilized in Asia or Africa. Decent road markings are a good place to start.


Well... 

In my opinion, the road markings are just waste of money in India, for instance. Why to mark three parallell lines, when the reality is a mass of vehicles blowing the horn and driving eight side by side.


----------



## IceCheese (Dec 20, 2006)

Sometime people have to learn to value human life, and drive more according to rules, right?


----------



## xrtn2 (Jan 12, 2011)

IceCheese said:


> Sometime people have to learn to value human life, and drive more according to rules, right?




:nuts:


----------



## GlennHGSD (Jan 21, 2009)

I read that motorways in Norway, were technically defined as parallel one way roads, which would probably explain why they were previously fully white?


----------



## GlennHGSD (Jan 21, 2009)

Here's more examples of a new Norwegian motorway with yellow centre lines.
A new portion of E-18. Please note that these photos were taken before any opening of the road, which would explain some dirt and things in the roadway.



























http://www.tu.no/bygg/2012/06/01/slik-blir-nye-e18


----------



## IceCheese (Dec 20, 2006)

^^I think you mean E18, but thanks for ze pics!


----------



## Norsko (Feb 22, 2007)

^^ I like!


----------



## GlennHGSD (Jan 21, 2009)

Yes indeed, that was a typo. XD

Anyhoot, more roads and streets from Norway, just to add to the gallery in this thread. 

Oslo:









http://www.flickr.com/photos/golub/2626038659/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/timo/10269628/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/antimega/272603402/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/golub/2625930262/
Trondheim:








http://www.flickr.com/photos/ystenes/7129592243/


Random locations anywhere else:









http://www.flickr.com/photos/separatesky/7209214244/










http://www.flickr.com/photos/ssmt/1464799399/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/ohait/6906991528/


----------



## IceCheese (Dec 20, 2006)

GlennHGSD said:


> http://www.flickr.com/photos/ohait/6906991528/


This pictures really shows how great yellow midline is for winter roads.


----------



## BringMe (May 7, 2011)

What about this ones in Colombia? U.S sistem right?


----------



## vladanng (Aug 2, 2009)

in Serbia there is no yellow lines i think, only in Belgrade in some boulevards yellow lanes marks that its not for regular cars, but for buses, taxi's, ambulances, police and that stuff.


----------



## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

Please, explain me something: what is the difference (in terms of passing regulations) of

THIS (which I assume is no passing allowing = no crossing the solid line allowed)










and THIS









Is the latter passing authorized only from drivers on the further-spaced intermittent line side? If so, why not follow international standards and put a solid line in the line that can't cross (overtake over) to the opposite one?


----------



## riiga (Nov 2, 2009)

Suburbanist said:


> Is the latter passing authorized only from drivers on the further-spaced intermittent line side? If so, why not follow international standards and put a solid line in the line that can't cross (overtake over) to the opposite one?


The double solid line means no passing, as you said. The longer dashed and shorter dashed line combined means that you are allowed to pass from both sides, but that passing from the side with the longer dash could be dangerous, i.e. it is not recommendend that you pass, but you may do so if you want to.


----------



## GlennHGSD (Jan 21, 2009)

yeah, it doesn't mean that passing is prohibited... but , it's like "dude, you really shouldn't pass there, unless you want to be scraped off the truck you never saw around the bend"


----------



## devo (Jun 24, 2011)

We also have a single solid line (sperrelinje) but it is never used. If we were to follow so-called international standards in the example above, one would not be able to overtake, coming towards the camera's position. However, we sometimes have a single solid line in combination with the warning line above (varsellinje) when the other direction has a crawl lane and the line of sight is sufficient for overtaking.

Another fun fact is that the long line above is 9m with a 3m gap, the short 3m with a 9m gap. They are 10cm wide, sometimes 15. However, I'm not sure about the length of solid lines, so don't ask.


----------



## IceCheese (Dec 20, 2006)

^^When roads have 50 km/h speed limit or less, they're shorter.


----------



## devo (Jun 24, 2011)

Excatly: 3m long with 1m gap.


----------



## Nima-Farid (Jul 13, 2010)

nice info, didnt know these numbers


----------



## Hemi4WD (Jun 14, 2012)

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> ADCS, I also believe that yellow line is better than white. That is why it is interesting for me how the DOT will explain why they are switching to white. Saving money is the only logical explanation to that...
> 
> Other countries were not born metric, they all switched at some point.


I'm also for the yellow lines. When they did the switch here in Australia in the mid to late 80's, that was the main argument, saving money.

As for the metric, Australia went through that change, starting in 1970. The road MPH signs were converted in 1974.



ChrisZwolle said:


> In some countries (mostly developing countries), they use yellow lines for the edge markings. Is this some bad rip-off where they didn't understood what the American yellow markings mean, or does it have some other kind of meaning?


Nothing to do with misunderstanding the US markings. What about the "non-developing" countries then, what's the meaning there?



Di-brazil said:


> :nuts::nuts:
> 
> in fact , yellow is better





engenx4 said:


> :nuts::nuts:using only white is very confusing


That photo is from Sydney, NSW, Australia.

I agree that using only white is confusing. If you look carefully, you'll notice that the 'lane lines' are shorter and thinner than the 'dividing (separation) lines' only when used in multi lane configuration. In single lane configuration (one way each way) the 'lane lines' and the 'dividing (separation) lines' are the same size (the thinner ones). It is very rare to find the thicker and longer 'dividing (separation) lines' on single lane (each way) roads.

The 'lane lines' or standard 'dividing (separation) lines' are 3m long, 100mm wide, with 9m gaps. The thicker lines are 9m long, 150mm wide, with 3m gaps. These thick dividing lines were used even when we had the centre yellow continuous lines. White dashed lines were still used on road centres for allowing overtaking.

It's a bit easier to tell on the road as the road reflectors are more visible. The 'lane lines' have a white reflector immediately in front of them (now that's also changing where all the reflectors will be positioned in the centre of the gap between the dashes), whereas the 'dividing (separation) lines' have a yellow reflector positioned between the dashes.



Penn's Woods said:


> ^^The problem in that picture (in my opinion) is not the fact that the edge line's yellow but that it's dashed. Rather, it _would_ be a problem if it were dashed white like the lines between lanes are - you need to be able to tell the difference in poor visibility conditions between the edge of the road and a crossable lane marking. A solid line of either color would be enough there, I think.


You're right, except that the yellow dashed lines are not an edge line there and on many metropolitan roads, the edge lines aren't used. Those yellow dashes indicate 'clearway' specific times (peak) when you can't park.



niterider said:


> That photo looks like a street in New Zealand. Dashed yellow lines are a parking control there rather than the marking for the edge of the road. Roads there are marked with a white edge like most countries.


NZ and AUS are very similar in many ways, LOL. Even the road markings are the same except that we changed the centre solids to white and you guys kept yours unchanged.



KIWIKAAS said:


> ^^
> It's Australia (New South Wales) on a road with clearway (the broken yellow shoulder markings)


:applause: Can't miss the Aussie Ford Falcon, LOL.



nerdly_dood said:


> Looks like their usage is similar to either NZ or Australia (not sure which or both) - they use a dashed white line in the same situation that America uses a dashed yellow line, but both use a solid yellow line the same way.


Yes, Sweden and Finland seem like they use the same methods as in NZ and AUS (prior to the changeover in mid 80's).



DanielFigFoz said:


> You're right and it's only New Zealand.


Currently, yes.



ChrisZwolle said:


> I get the idea some Asian countries want to copy the "American" yellow road markings, but don't understand the concept, so they just paint some markings yellow and the others white. Sometimes the outer marking, sometimes the inner markings, etc.


C'mon. I get the feeling of the "western superiority complex" towards the Asian/third world/developing/uncivilised countries. Get over it.


----------



## GlennHGSD (Jan 21, 2009)

As highways in Norway slowly begin the change:


----------



## Nima-Farid (Jul 13, 2010)

why r they changing?


----------



## MattiG (Feb 11, 2011)

Nima-Farid said:


> why r they changing?


They need to know which side of the road is the right one and which one is the left one. They forgot the old golden rule: The right leg is the one having the big toe on the left.

Next year, the concept will be extended to the 1+1 roads: The left side of the road will be yellow and the right one white.


----------



## Galro (Aug 9, 2010)

GlennHGSD said:


> As highways in Norway slowly begin the change:


Looks ugly.


----------



## xrtn2 (Jan 12, 2011)

Galro said:


> Looks ugly.


I dont think so.


----------



## Nima-Farid (Jul 13, 2010)

Galro said:


> Looks ugly.


agreed. it looks 20 years old...


----------



## xrtn2 (Jan 12, 2011)

Nima-Farid said:


> agreed. it looks 20 years old...



:nono:


IMO Yellow line is most beautiful than white line.










White line is so monotous.


----------



## GlennHGSD (Jan 21, 2009)

Don't really see what's so wrong about it, all our roads with centrelines have them, why not highways too? Certainly brings more unity to our existing road system.


----------



## Nima-Farid (Jul 13, 2010)

or you can convert to all white....


----------



## GlennHGSD (Jan 21, 2009)

Or how about not?:bash: 

In case you don't know, Norway gets a lot of snow each year, and though if the snow is thick enough to cover the entire roadway any marking doesn't really help, but it does help to see the centre of the road if there is a light cover of snow on it.


----------



## Norsko (Feb 22, 2007)

^^
In Norway the yellow line has always been used to separate traffic moving in opposite directions, it is in our blood to have a yellow line to the left. :lol: For some reason this was never implemented on the motorways which always have been all white. Meanwhile; With the motorway"network" growing into places which never had motorways before A LOT of dangerous situations have occurred when (old) people not familiar with roads like this drives into the wrong carriageway. The yellow motorway left line (on ramps as well) is one way of trying to end this. The "Austrian hand" sign is another.


----------



## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Until, say, 20-25 years ago in Italy central lines were white while side lines were yellow. I don't know why they changed them in an all-white scheme.


----------



## GlennHGSD (Jan 21, 2009)

Then there's the also the fact that repainting the some 380 km of highways( motorways) that Norway has compared to the probably, several thousands of regular 2 lane, 3 lane ,and 4 lane roads, already with centrelines, is probably considerably less expensive, than doing it the other way. Then there's also the fact that yellow centrelines on a highway is less of a transition for Norwegians, than repainting our road network entirely...

Thinking logically might help at times.


----------



## GlennHGSD (Jan 21, 2009)

Having been to East Norway now, still here for that matter. I got to see some highways, and it is kinda amusing, they are white for one stretch, then yellow, then white, then yellow, white again.

It's like you're in Europe, US, Europe again, into an American tunnel, Europe, US again, onto a European bridge, US again. XD


----------



## atmada (Jan 9, 2008)

The only yellow line in Solo, ID. Separating main road and railway track.








_photo by *Shaggy_Solo*_









source: http://mobilhybrid12.blogspot.com/2012/02/jalan-slamet-riyadi-pusat-aktivitas.html


----------



## ChrisBerg91 (Mar 1, 2012)

devo said:


> However, we sometimes have a single solid line in combination with the warning line above (varsellinje) when the other direction has a crawl lane and the line of sight is sufficient for overtaking.


This is not the situation anymore. The government have removed this marking combination from our roads. They've removed this to improove safety, since there used to be alot of accidents on these roads.

Also they have started to put barriers on places where there is 2+1 roads and 90 km/h roads too improove safety.


----------



## N.J. (Jul 16, 2013)

nerdly_dood said:


> Don't know about Sweden or the rest of Europe, but Norway does indeed use a yellow centerline. This only applies to two-way traffic on the same strip of pavement; divided highways use all white lines.
> 
> Also worth noting is that the Irish usage of yellow edge lines is similar to the American way of doing it, as it keeps yellow always on your left.


Only Norway and Finland uses yellow center line. Sweden as with rest of Europe uses white only. In Sweden you never see any yellow paint.

Yellow center line is 500000 times better than white!!!!


----------



## friedrichstrasse (Jan 8, 2007)

In Italy yellow lines are used to mark the special lanes, used for buses or bikes.


----------



## lowenmeister (Oct 1, 2012)

Sweden used to have yellow center lines but changed it when Sweden went from left hand traffic to right hand traffic.


----------



## N.J. (Jul 16, 2013)

^^^ Wasn't everything painted in yellow? I dislike when pedestrian crosswalks are painted in yellow. I know Switzerland does that. It's good Sweden switched to right side traffic.

It is idiotic that countries do not paint yellow for center divided lines. When I was in Sweden, I was confused and did not know whether it was one or two way street.


----------



## N.J. (Jul 16, 2013)

*In 1971 the U.S. MUTCD mandated the use of Yellow center divided line for safety and better visibility reason, and far less confusion. Also because Yellow was the standard color for warning signs.*


----------



## Nils de Gothia (Mar 11, 2013)

N.J. said:


> ^^^ Wasn't everything painted in yellow? I dislike when pedestrian crosswalks are painted in yellow. I know Switzerland does that. It's good Sweden switched to right side traffic.
> 
> It is idiotic that countries do not paint yellow for center divided lines. When I was in Sweden, I was confused and did not know whether it was one or two way street.


I spent a year in the US 1992-93. I almost found it hilarious how Americans know how terrific everything is in the States, without having seen a bit of the peripheral world. http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/11/the-world-according-to-americans/ Tell me something about accidental rates and traffic casualty rates in the US compared so say, Sweden, where you couldn´t distuinguish one way streets from two-way traffic roads.

The American System in traffic design is to presume that everybody is dumb. The traffic environment and information system has a design which allows you to drive without any knowledge. No wonder, Driver´s Ed is joke. If you happen to do something stupid, a lawsuit will ruin you. Bad luck. But as an American you´re right. Americans, and obviously YOU in particular, certainly is in need of yellow center divided lines.


----------



## ElviS77 (Aug 3, 2007)

^^
As a Norwegian, I've grown up with yellow central divider lines and I actually find them useful. Not because I find it particularly difficult to drive where the lines are white, but the yellow ones are marginally easier to see on winter roads and they also represent an extremely simple, free-of-charge aid to drivers unfamiliar with the given section of road. Again, this is by no means a vital thing and it's certainly to do with habit, but still, I like them and think they're useful.


----------



## xrtn2 (Jan 12, 2011)

In Brazil Yellow its used to central divider line anjd no parking line.


Example:










But same way its always white.


----------



## Exethalion (Dec 23, 2008)

Europe don't need yellow lines because their drivers have good lane discipline. :troll:


----------



## N.J. (Jul 16, 2013)

Nils de Gothia said:


> I spent a year in the US 1992-93. I almost found it hilarious how Americans know how terrific everything is in the States, without having seen a bit of the peripheral world. http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/11/the-world-according-to-americans/ Tell me something about accidental rates and traffic casualty rates in the US compared so say, Sweden, where you couldn´t distuinguish one way streets from two-way traffic roads.
> 
> The American System in traffic design is to presume that everybody is dumb. The traffic environment and information system has a design which allows you to drive without any knowledge. No wonder, Driver´s Ed is joke. If you happen to do something stupid, a lawsuit will ruin you. Bad luck. But as an American you´re right. Americans, and obviously YOU in particular, certainly is in need of yellow center divided lines.


Rest of North and South America, including Thailand, Norway and Finland uses yellow center line... Are they all dumb? Yellow is easier still.


----------



## N.J. (Jul 16, 2013)

Exethalion said:


> Europe don't need yellow lines because their drivers have good lane discipline. :troll:


Has nothing to do with having good driver discipline. Don't make it more difficult for people.


----------



## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)

Nils de Gothia said:


> I spent a year in the US 1992-93. I almost found it hilarious how Americans know how terrific everything is in the States, without having seen a bit of the peripheral world. http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/11/the-world-according-to-americans/ Tell me something about accidental rates and traffic casualty rates in the US compared so say, Sweden, where you couldn´t distuinguish one way streets from two-way traffic roads.
> 
> The American System in traffic design is to presume that everybody is dumb. The traffic environment and information system has a design which allows you to drive without any knowledge. No wonder, Driver´s Ed is joke. If you happen to do something stupid, a lawsuit will ruin you. Bad luck. But as an American you´re right. Americans, and obviously YOU in particular, certainly is in need of yellow center divided lines.


The Northeastern states are rolling out complete streets in most towns and all cities so things are getting more and more complex. There narrowing wider streets and roads with a combination of bike lanes and sidewalks , adding roundabouts about lighter used dangerous intersections , adding tree strips along certain speeding stretches....full barrier railroad intersections , longer pedestrians signals...and a few other misc things which have brought down the accident rate by half in certain areas. Theres been a recent push to accelerate the plans in the wake of some horrific accidents...it seems to be happening for the cities.


----------



## volodaaaa (Apr 9, 2013)

Why to confuse drivers with yellow divider line? Despite of worse visibility in bad weather conditions, it is less visible even at night as well. In most of European countries, yellow lane means stopping and parking restrictions.


----------



## suburbicide (May 4, 2012)

volodaaaa said:


> Why to confuse drivers with yellow divider line? Despite of worse visibility in bad weather conditions, it is less visible even at night as well. In most of European countries, yellow lane means stopping and parking restrictions.


I fail to see how a yellow center line is "confusing". White may be marginally more visible at night, but visibility really depends more on how old the paint is than whether it's yellow or white. Yellow is more visible in partially snow covered roads.

In Norway there was a proposal in the late 90s to change to white center line, and the main argument for it was that it would save money (less complexity=cost savings). The proposal was turned down at the political level due to opposition from traffic safety organizations and the general public. The cost thing is really the only valid argument I can see in favor of all white.


----------



## xrtn2 (Jan 12, 2011)

At Night


----------



## N.J. (Jul 16, 2013)

volodaaaa said:


> Why to confuse drivers with yellow divider line? Despite of worse visibility in bad weather conditions, it is less visible even at night as well. In most of European countries, yellow lane means stopping and parking restrictions.


Are you joking? Yellow is very visible at night!


----------



## N.J. (Jul 16, 2013)

suburbicide said:


> I fail to see how a yellow center line is "confusing". White may be marginally more visible at night, but visibility really depends more on how old the paint is than whether it's yellow or white. Yellow is more visible in partially snow covered roads.
> 
> In Norway there was a proposal in the late 90s to change to white center line, and the main argument for it was that it would save money (less complexity=cost savings). The proposal was turned down at the political level due to opposition from traffic safety organizations and the general public. The cost thing is really the only valid argument I can see in favor of all white.


Why would Norway switch to white? So crazy, idiotic and confusing.


----------



## ed110220 (Nov 12, 2008)

N.J. said:


> Why would Norway switch to white? So crazy, idiotic and confusing.


Maybe to match Sweden? I don't think anyone who isn't used to yellow finds white confusing. I've never heard of anyone finding white confusing. Many things confused me when learning to drive - the colour of the road marking wasn't one of them.


----------



## ed110220 (Nov 12, 2008)

N.J. said:


> ^^^ Wasn't everything painted in yellow? I dislike when pedestrian crosswalks are painted in yellow. I know Switzerland does that. It's good Sweden switched to right side traffic.
> 
> It is idiotic that countries do not paint yellow for center divided lines. When I was in Sweden, I was confused and did not know whether it was one or two way street.


One would assume a street was two way unless there were signs saying one way... Personally I find yellow centre dividing lines look a little bit odd and unappealing visually. That's just because I'm not used to them.


----------



## Autobahn-mann (Mar 1, 2013)

x-type said:


> in Italy sometimes appear yellow lines even without special situations. check out the picture


 This because in Italy made the things in the worst way...
In Italy the yellow line indicated road words (same than rest EU nations), or reserved lane... In this photo there was a road work that was finished but at the end wasn't replaced the line with white...hno:
However, in the old italian Highway code (1957-1992) yellow line was used to limited the border of the road (now white), and there wasn't line for road works (introduced with new highway code of 1992)


----------



## Iregua (Aug 12, 2013)

Spain used the yellow center line until the 1980's. This is a picture of the national road N-IV through Despeñaperros mountain pass in the early 80's or late 70's:


----------



## xrtn2 (Jan 12, 2011)

^^ 


Very interesting.


----------



## Alqaszar (Jan 18, 2008)

@gspinoza:

Italy changed from yellow to white for the margin lines in 1993. I remeber driving from Venice to Padova on A 4 back then. The road markings were being painted on a new asphalted stretch, and I thought they were making a mistake...


----------



## parinandv (Apr 16, 2009)

Nephasto said:


> Roads with multiple lanes into each direction where even the line
> separating opposite directions is dashed??
> Does that exist? I mean, by portuguese laws that would be forbidden, and I guess that by any reasonable law it would be forbidden too.
> If there are multiple lanes into each direction but there's no divider, the line in the middle should allways be solid, not dashed. Because it's allways forbidden to cross that line, because you don't need the other direction lane to takeover, as it hapens with 1 lane per direction roads.


In Thailand, we have dashed yellow lines separating opposing lanes in a multiple-lane road, and the thickness of the lines is slightly thicker.


----------



## queclasetipo123 (Jul 15, 2008)

*In Venezuela some lines are white and some yellow

Only White lines


















































Yellow and White lines*


----------



## xrtn2 (Jan 12, 2011)

Brazil


BR 470 (RS) by PAC 2, on Flickr


BR 146 (MG) by PAC 2, on Flickr

At night


Curva sinuosa by AndersonSantos., on Flickr


----------



## xrtn2 (Jan 12, 2011)

Yellow line = no parking also in Brazil 


Pavimentação Pato Branco (PR) by PAC 2, on Flickr


----------



## -Valentino- (Feb 13, 2015)

I *LOVE* Yellow center divided lane; easier to distinguish, more clear and much nicer. I don't understand why Europe (besides Norway) uses white on everything; what is worst is that sometimes it's not even double or single white lane, and may use dashed. How are you suppose to know whether is it one or two way road?!


----------



## x-type (Aug 19, 2005)

-Valentino- said:


> I *LOVE* Yellow center divided lane; easier to distinguish, more clear and much nicer. I don't understand why Europe (besides Norway) uses white on everything; what is worst is that sometimes it's not even double or single white lane, and may use dashed. How are you suppose to know whether is it one or two way road?!


because European road signs are much more distinctive than American 
also, here in HR we have one more thing that makes you sure - side cat's eye bars: when the right is red, and left is white, you are sure that you are on two way road. like here.. on the one way roads both left and right are red - example.
however, it is not the rule because it is not standardized: many countries use orange cat's eyes on both sides, in Slovenia and Austria white always marks left edge of the road, red marks the right edge, in Germany they have only white etc.


----------



## MattiG (Feb 11, 2011)

-Valentino- said:


> I *LOVE* Yellow center divided lane; easier to distinguish, more clear and much nicer. I don't understand why Europe (besides Norway) uses white on everything; what is worst is that sometimes it's not even double or single white lane, and may use dashed. How are you suppose to know whether is it one or two way road?!


 Easy. White is MUCH more reflexive than yellow.


----------



## xrtn2 (Jan 12, 2011)

yellow :cheers:


----------



## -Valentino- (Feb 13, 2015)

MattiG said:


> Easy. White is MUCH more reflexive than yellow.


That's not true. The reason why America switched from all white to yellow 40 years ago was due to making it more clear and distinguished as well as lowering accident rate.


----------



## albert0123 (Jun 5, 2010)

-Valentino- said:


> That's not true. The reason why America switched from all white to yellow 40 years ago was due to making it more clear and distinguished as well as lowering accident rate.


Any sign the nuber of accident lowered because of this switch. For in Europe with all the white lines the accident rate is way lower compared to the US. 
Please refer to www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/road-traffic-accidents/by-country/


----------



## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

^^I doubt that you could attribute differences in accident rate solely to line color. Does anyone have real figures either way?

(Just intuitively, as an American driver, there are times - poor visibility conditions in particular - that it is helpful to have the center line in a different color than the others. And the (supposed) inferior reflectivity of yellow can be solved with cats-eyes....)


----------



## MattiG (Feb 11, 2011)

-Valentino- said:


> That's not true. The reason why America switched from all white to yellow 40 years ago was due to making it more clear and distinguished as well as lowering accident rate.


 What is not true?


----------



## -Valentino- (Feb 13, 2015)

^^ We could all agree that having 2 different colors are more distinguishable (or at least solid/double lanes of same color).


----------



## Xpressway (Dec 2, 2006)

Yellow on the median may help when there is light snow (heavy snow will cover all paint no matter the color).
In highways with barriers or jerseys, yellow may not be needed on the pavement as signals can be placed on the top borders of the barriers to signal the middle.

Yellow on the sides is brutally ugly IMO.


----------



## -Valentino- (Feb 13, 2015)

Xpressway said:


> Yellow on the median may help when there is light snow (heavy snow will cover all paint no matter the color).
> In highways with barriers or jerseys, yellow may not be needed on the pavement as signals can be placed on the top borders of the barriers to signal the middle.
> 
> Yellow on the sides is brutally ugly IMO.


Actually white paint with snow is very difficult to see; at least with yellow more distinguishable as well. 

Yellow on left side and white on right side on highways is fine, as used in North America. Both sides yellow is ugly I agree.


----------



## Kanadzie (Jan 3, 2014)

I think the whole point was to indicate opposite driving direction, so only on left side...


----------



## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

-Valentino- said:


> I don't understand why Europe (besides Norway) uses white on everything; what is worst is that sometimes it's not even double or single white lane, and may use dashed. How are you suppose to know whether is it one or two way road?!


Erm...you see this at the beginning of the road?


----------



## -Valentino- (Feb 13, 2015)

Road_UK said:


> Not all people in the Netherlands are Dutch.


A person who lives in the Netherlands is Dutch. A person who lives in the UK is British, a person who lives in Canada is Canadian. What do you mean?


----------



## -Valentino- (Feb 13, 2015)

Suburbanist said:


> I just think a different color to separate direction of traffic is a better option. That is all. It is like my preference for graphic drawing signs of road rules abundantly in use in Europe instead of US-style written signs. I think drivers react better to image patterns than having to read a written message when they have just 1-2 seconds to grab the message before distraction or avoidance quicks in.
> 
> This has nothing to do with intelligence, character or attributes of people living in a place or other.
> 
> ...


^^ Agree!!! That's what I said in previous threads too


----------



## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

-Valentino- said:


> A person who lives in the Netherlands is Dutch. A person who lives in the UK is British, a person who lives in Canada is Canadian. What do you mean?


I am both Dutch and British but live in Austria. You see what I mean? People emigrate.


----------



## suburbicide (May 4, 2012)

-Valentino- said:


> All lanes were painted white prior to the 70s. Not sure in Canada though.


sigh...


----------



## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

-Valentino- said:


> A person who lives in the Netherlands is Dutch. A person who lives in the UK is British, a person who lives in Canada is Canadian. What do you mean?


Actually, in the European Union (if I understand correctly), a citizen of one member state can live in any other as long as he or she wants without having to change citizenship. (Assuming they have a job and other such requirements.) May not even be allowed to change citizenship. So I'm sure there are plenty of people living permanently in the Netherlands who are not Dutch either by background or citizenship and wouldn't consider themselves Dutch.


----------



## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

I'm definitely not Austrian, even though God did say that if one person has sexual intercourse they become the same.


----------



## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

-Valentino- said:


> A person who lives in the Netherlands is Dutch. A person who lives in the UK is British, a person who lives in Canada is Canadian. What do you mean?


This one beats them all. Wow.


----------



## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

^^ What was it like being German for a while?


----------



## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

^^You could ask that one of any Austrian over 70. :troll:

EDIT. Um, any Austrian over 70 who was actually in Austria 70 years ago. As opposed to any aging Anglo-Dutch-Austrian ski freaks of your acquaintance who may have been there since the Innsbruck Olympics.


----------



## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^You could ask that one of any Austrian over 70. :troll:
> 
> EDIT. Um, any Austrian over 70 who was actually in Austria 70 years ago. As opposed to any aging Anglo-Dutch-Austrian ski freaks of your acquaintance who may have been there since the Innsbruck Olympics.


Not me. I was still in the process of future-production at the time. We are going terribly off-topic but what else is there to say about these stinking dividing lines anyway apart from Canadian statements that they are super cool in North America.


----------



## MattiG (Feb 11, 2011)

Penn's Woods said:


> Actually, in the European Union (if I understand correctly), a citizen of one member state can live in any other as long as he or she wants without having to change citizenship. (Assuming they have a job and other such requirements.) May not even be allowed to change citizenship. So I'm sure there are plenty of people living permanently in the Netherlands who are not Dutch either by background or citizenship and wouldn't consider themselves Dutch.


Even changing the citizenship does not necessarily hide your origin.

My late aunt emigrated to Sweden in the early 1950's, and lived for about 50 years as a citizen of Sweden. Even if almost all of her friends and business contacts were Swedish, she felt more a Finn than a Swede.


----------



## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

Well, now we're getting philosophical*, but I'd say your aunt, as a Swedish citizen, had a right to be considered "Swedish," either in general or for purposes of exercising the rights of a citizen, such as voting. And a right not to be. (And saying "anyone who lives in Canada is Canadian" sounds less strange to me than it may to Europeans, even if it's not technically true because some people living in Canada aren't, or aren't yet, Canadian citizens. Because Canada, like the U.S., is full of people who came from elsewhere with the intention of becoming Canadian or American, and would resent being told, "no, you're not a Canadian because you weren't born here.")

*And even more off-topic, but at this point it's a drop in the bucket.


----------



## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

Another thread derailed...


----------



## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

^^I just went along for the ride. Or maybe "careened" along, since we're talking about a derailment.

(You have no idea how many times today I've controlled myself. :angel: )


----------



## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

Road_UK said:


> Not me. I was still in the process of future-production at the time. We are going terribly off-topic but what else is there to say about these stinking dividing lines anyway apart from Canadian statements that they are super cool in North America.


Oh, *those* dividing lines. I thought you were talking about borders! It's hard to tell what thread you're on lately. But we've had plenty to say about these lines already, and long before Valentino was here.


----------



## solchante (Jan 6, 2010)




----------



## Kozhedub (Jan 8, 2011)

^^
That's how they do it in Russia


----------



## [atomic] (Oct 12, 2013)

:nuts: I hope that this wasn't tax payer funded :lol:


----------



## 54°26′S 3°24′E (Oct 26, 2007)

-Valentino- said:


> Finally a European who agrees with us! Wonder why Norway is the only smart European country though using yellow ? Anyone know the history behind that?


I tried to do a little bit of research on this, but was not successful. As far as I know, Norway has never had white center lines. This is a picture from the main street of Oslo in 1970, and before that there was mostly gravel in Norway ;-)









I believe there were more European countries with yellow center line before, I guess we just are more stubborn than the rest up here in here in the north + that we have more snow and hence yellow line makes sense for visibility.

(The road authorities btw have tried to switch a couple of times, lastly around 2000, but again had to pull back due to popular resentment. Since then yellow lines have also been introduced to divided highways / one way streets, where the left line used to be white in Norway.)


----------



## xrtn2 (Jan 12, 2011)

solchante said:


>


:nuts:


----------



## xrtn2 (Jan 12, 2011)

54°26′S 3°24′E;123360107 said:


> Seems like Argentina has made its own compromise....


:nuts::nuts::nuts:


----------



## prp002 (Oct 4, 2010)

White in Australia


----------



## 54°26′S 3°24′E (Oct 26, 2007)

So, the odd Australian practice of placing bike lanes on the shoulders of multilane highways has not ended. No wonder helmets are mandatory by law....


----------



## KIWIKAAS (May 13, 2003)

^^ crazy eh? I can't think of any other developed country where they do this on busy urban motorways. New South Wales would be the worst culprit. Quite a bizar practice in any case.


----------



## prp002 (Oct 4, 2010)

54°26′S 3°24′E;132005088 said:


> So, the odd Australian practice of placing bike lanes on the shoulders of multilane highways has not ended. No wonder helmets are mandatory by law....


The helmet law allows us to put the lanes there. You may also be amused that our gun laws enacted 20 years ago put a stop to mass shootings


----------



## xrtn2 (Jan 12, 2011)

Brazil 

Yellow and White


----------



## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

54°26′S 3°24′E;123362217 said:


> Yellow vs white road paint is not the most important safety feature, but I indeed believe there is a difference in visibility in winter. In winter time, highly trafficated roads, where center lines are most important, more often than not are only partially covered by snow, and then, as Glenn's excellent post earlier indicated , yellow lines are more visible than white. Reflective side posts are helpful to keep you on the road, but does not prevent head-on crashes which is the most serious type of accident on medium trafficated two-way non-separated roads.


Absolutely. Also, I've been in situations - say an undivided U.S. highway in a rural area early in a snowstorm on a Sunday evening (so it's normally a heavily traveled road but at that moment you've got it to yourself) - where it's helpful to know that that line to your left is the center line, not the far side of the road.


----------



## KIWIKAAS (May 13, 2003)

prp002 said:


> The helmet law allows us to put the lanes there. You may also be amused that our gun laws enacted 20 years ago put a stop to mass shootings


This makes no sense.
Allowing bicycles on quieter rural motorways or expresways with a lower traffic volume, although uncomon in the world, is understandable.
Allowing cyclists on busy urban motorways is just plain stupid policy. The emergency stopping shoulder is just that, not a cycle lane. 
A cycle helmet is not going to be of much use when colliding with a car or heavy vehicle travelling at 80-110kph.


----------



## prp002 (Oct 4, 2010)

KIWIKAAS said:


> This makes no sense.
> Allowing bicycles on quieter rural motorways or expresways with a lower traffic volume, although uncomon in the world, is understandable.
> Allowing cyclists on busy urban motorways is just plain stupid policy. The emergency stopping shoulder is just that, not a cycle lane.
> A cycle helmet is not going to be of much use when colliding with a car or heavy vehicle travelling at 80-110kph.


It makes perfect sense. Cars do not hit the cyclists, otherwise the lanes would not be there. Perhaps in your country cyclists are targets for drivers

What IS stupid policy is the unlimited speed limits on German motorways. How is that safe?


----------



## KIWIKAAS (May 13, 2003)

prp002 said:


> It makes perfect sense. Cars do not hit the cyclists, otherwise the lanes would not be there. Perhaps in your country cyclists are targets for drivers
> 
> What IS stupid policy is the unlimited speed limits on German motorways. How is that safe?






























And considering the extremely low volumes of cyclists on motorways in Sydney, it would appear the risk of injury or death is relaively high....
:dunno:


----------



## 54°26′S 3°24′E (Oct 26, 2007)

prp002 said:


> It makes perfect sense. Cars do not hit the cyclists, otherwise the lanes would not be there. Perhaps in your country cyclists are targets for drivers
> 
> What IS stupid policy is the unlimited speed limits on German motorways. How is that safe?


My comments came from my experience as a daily cyclist and car owner in Sydney about 16 years ago, where I was truly shocked to see this practice. I cannot talk for the the Kiwis, but I certainly feel a lot safer biking in Norway, even during winter, than in Sydney. I always use helmet, but as noted by KIWIKAAS, a helmet won't help you much if hit by a car on a motorway. Germany btw has far fewer road accidents per capita than Australia.

Although there were a few oddities in Australian traffic, I had a truly great year in Australia. In particular, I made som very good friends down under!


----------



## KIWIKAAS (May 13, 2003)

I live in the Netherlands, but the situation in NZ is nearly as bad as Australia, although they don't allow cyclists on busy urban motorways there (as is the case nearly everywhere on the globe).
Here is a good article by an experienced cyclist on Sydney's motorway cycle lanes:
https://idonotdespair.com/2014/07/0...highways-in-australia-cycling-for-extremists/


----------



## Ingenioren (Jan 18, 2008)

Is it much better with these sidewalks on expressways seen in Norway? (They are planning to remove them all eventually)










(Not off-topic - look this is the old standard with white lines.)


----------



## 54°26′S 3°24′E (Oct 26, 2007)

A bit better as these are normal sidewalks separated from the road by a curb and not meant for high speed cycling, but certainly not ideal and hopefully soon removed. As far as I know, only Oslo has a few of these for some reason?

I will have to take a picture of yellow bike path paint one of these days ;-)


----------



## Kanadzie (Jan 3, 2014)

prp002 said:


> What IS stupid policy is the unlimited speed limits on German motorways. How is that safe?


Because people aren't morons and are able to determine on their own what speeds are safe?


----------



## Highway89 (Feb 19, 2015)

Suburbanist said:


> I think it is better to have a different color signaling divide between opposing lane travel. I prefer Norway scheme therefore.
> 
> Bear in mind, however, that in Europe there are far less wide multi-lane roads where you are allowed to cross the central line. Turning lanes (aka "suicide lanes") that accept traffic from both directions are uncommon, and sometimes they are painted with (white) zebras.
> 
> If I remember it correctly, in Spain it is fairly common to paint a direction of travel arrow on 2+1 roads.


I completely agree with you.

The only problem I see is that we should change the colour we use (in Spain at least) for roadworks from yellow to orange to avoid confusion.


Another difference regarding road marking is broken vs. solid outer lines. On motorways, France, Spain, Algeria and Morocco seem to be the only countries that use long dashed lines. On non-motorways, I think Sweden also uses dotted or dashed lines.


----------



## ElviS77 (Aug 3, 2007)

54°26′S 3°24′E;132030170 said:


> As far as I know, only Oslo has a few of these for some reason?


I think the reason is that these urban expressways are so old (1960s) that no-one really considered it a problem - the current Ring 3 was built with several intersections with traffic lights. Back then in the rest of the country, no-one considered building multi-lane urban expressways at all...


----------



## mw123 (Oct 23, 2009)

KIWIKAAS said:


> And considering the extremely low volumes of cyclists on motorways in Sydney, it would appear the risk of injury or death is relaively high....
> :dunno:


I agree entirely with what you've said here. I rarely see people cycle on those shoulder lanes and when I have, everyone invariably comments about how stupid and dangerous it looks.


----------



## 54°26′S 3°24′E (Oct 26, 2007)

Shared bike /pedestrian paths are still most common in Norway. The solution does not work very well in urban areas, especially since there are often also driveways and cracks and potholes in the asphalt. No paint is used on these shared paths. However, things have slowly been improving over the last 10 years, and some of the major routes have now dedicated bike lanes or paths. Slightly on thread topic, many of these newer paths have lanes indicated using the same color scheme as ordinary roads. In addition, red tarmac is sometimes applied on the bike lanes to set them apart.


----------



## LegendMeadow (Nov 2, 2015)

54°26′S 3°24′E;132030170 said:


> only Oslo has a few of these for some reason?


We have them in Bodø.


----------



## xrtn2 (Jan 12, 2011)

*Brazil *

Yellow lines are used to separate traffic moving in opposite directions




























and white lines are used to separate traffic moving in the same direction


----------



## MattiG (Feb 11, 2011)

*Finland plans to switch to white*

A few weeks ago, the Ministry on Transport introduced the proposal for a renewed Road Traffic Act of Finland. The proposal includes a statement to quit using yellow paint on the road markings and use white color instead. The colors of traffic signs will not change: The background of warning, restrictive and prohibitive signs remains yellow.


----------



## Kpc21 (Oct 3, 2008)

Maybe another issue. Concerning just the all-white countries (except for temporary signage).

In some European countries - like Poland or Germany - a line separating traffic directions not permitted to cross is double solid. In some others - Bulgaria, Slovakia too if I am not mistaken, not sure about Austria - it's single solid, same as the line separating the hard shoulder.

Which solution is better?

Double solid - more noticeable and persuasive.
Single solid - paint efficient.

About the Finnish idea - I am for sticking to the solution applied till now in the specific country. Why should everything be exactly the same and unified? It gives the country kind of identity, that it's different in something.

In Poland, there was a project of law which was going to replace the double solid line with single solid line. As well as make the outline on warning signs thicker, not sure about the background about the warning signs (now we have yellow, most European countries have white - but yellow makes more sense as it's the "warning" color). But I would definitely prefer sticking to what we have now.

There is also a very rare option: a double dashed line. Meaning a lane with variable traffic direction, indicated by special traffic lights: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_lane

Our law gives such an option, but I don't think it's used in practice anywhere in Poland.


----------



## Kanadzie (Jan 3, 2014)

^^ Interesting

In Canada double-solid and single-solid have the same meaning, and are used basically interchangeably. I've never seen a real explanation but generally a 2 lane road of good quality would be double-solid (when passing prohibited), and a small 2-lane road or motorway would use single-solid (e.g. when lane changes not allowed)
But, always, the dashed line is single, since like you mention, double-dashed is for a exclusive lane usually in contraflow direction.


----------



## Kpc21 (Oct 3, 2008)

I wrote a post yesterday evening but didn't manage to send it because a forum update started...

I wanted to indicate two examples:










Some countries use this paint-saving version of painting the traffic-excluded areas. Slovakia, for example.

Poland doesn't have it and such areas are always fully filled with those lines.

The quality of horizontal signage is generally quite poor in Slovakia, unlike in Poland, but regardless of that, this version of painting an excluded area is a good idea in my opinion.

And an example from Poland:










Do you have any idea WHY this excluded area at the beginning of the left-turn lane? It would be much simpler if it wasn't present and you could drive smoothly onto this lane. Which many drivers do anyway, ignoring the excluded area.


----------



## GlennHGSD (Jan 21, 2009)

Let's change it up a bit - here's a few road videos showing the yellow lines on Norwegian roads, and motorways.

Oslo:





Lake Mjøsa north of Oslo:





Bergen:





Rural roads:


----------



## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

Kpc21 said:


> In some European countries - like Poland or Germany - a line separating traffic directions not permitted to cross is double solid. In some others - Bulgaria, Slovakia too if I am not mistaken, not sure about Austria - it's single solid, same as the line separating the hard shoulder.
> 
> Which solution is better?
> 
> ...


In Estonia it's a single solid if there's only one lane in each direction and a double solid if there is more than one lane in either direction. 

Single solid
Double solid

The latter is mostly used in cities because we don't have highways with more than one lane in either direction that don't have a median.


----------



## sotavento (May 12, 2005)

snupix said:


> It's EU standard, so it's the same within the EU (I still don't know how Sweden can use yellow traffic signs - in Croatia we had to change them to white bc of the EU)


The yellow is also "eu standard" ... it means temporary or danger. Most northwern have snow all year round so they get to use "temporary" yellow all year round.




The same goes for the other EU countries ... ALL OF THEM use yellow markings whenever they want.


----------



## Kpc21 (Oct 3, 2008)

I think it's not true you had to change them. Maybe someone of the politicians somehow got supported by a manufacturer of road paint, or by a company providing road lines painting services?

It's same with the turn-right-on-red arrows in Poland, which had a form of static signs below the semaphore before we joined the EU and the government said they have to made them be actually a semaphore, turning on only under some conditions when we join the EU. While Germans still use static arrows, the former West Germany even adopted this solution from the former East Germany - and they have no problem with being in the EU and having static "conditional arrows".

There was actually no need for changing it, but someone said it has to be changed because of the EU (which was not true) and it was done.

The semaphore arrow has only one advantage. When the drivers from the opposite direction, turning left, have an "unconditional" signal allowing them to turn left, I shouldn't be allowed to turn right on red, so the semaphore arrow just disappears in such a situation. Static arrow couldn't be used at all. But it could be solved by installing semaphore arrows in the places where they are necessary and static arrows where they aren't.


----------



## MattiG (Feb 11, 2011)

Kpc21 said:


> I think it's not true you had to change them. Maybe someone of the politicians somehow got supported by a manufacturer of road paint, or by a company providing road lines painting services?
> 
> It's same with the turn-right-on-red arrows in Poland, which had a form of static signs below the semaphore before we joined the EU and the government said they have to made them be actually a semaphore, turning on only under some conditions when we join the EU. While Germans still use static arrows, the former West Germany even adopted this solution from the former East Germany - and they have no problem with being in the EU and having static "conditional arrows".
> 
> ...


What is all this talk about traffic signs and the EU? The EU does not regulate them.

The coordinating instrument is the Vienna Convention on Traffic Signs, facilitated by the UN. It is voluntary to join this agreements, and every member country has a power to make deviations. 

In my opinion, the German implementation of turn-on-red is bad, because the sign is barely visible in many cases.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

Wow, more than 10 years on, my thread is still going strong


----------



## Kpc21 (Oct 3, 2008)

The Polish one is also bad, because the arrow is green, while the meaning of a very similar signal is totally different. The similar one allows to turn right /or left/ without taking care of anything, while this one forces you to stop and to give way to other.

But we have already had a discussion about it and it seems, quite many countries use green arrow signals here.

This one:










vs. this (the similar) one:



















Plus it's generally agreed that the green signals means "you can drive", while in such a situation you actually can't drive just so, you must stop first and give way first to the pedestrians and cyclists (at a separated path), then to the cars on the street across.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

Yeah, if I saw a green light arrow, I would automatically assume that I can make a turn without having to stop first. Being from the USA, I would recognize a small square sign depicting a green arrow as the one that allows the right turn on red after a full stop though.


----------



## grykaerugoves (Jun 25, 2013)

I like the Brazillian model of using yellow lines to divide oncomming traffic and white multi lane markings. Very nice.


----------



## Kanadzie (Jan 3, 2014)

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Yeah, if I saw a green light arrow, I would automatically assume that I can make a turn without having to stop first. Being from the USA, I would recognize a small square sign depicting a green arrow as the one that allows the right turn on red after a full stop though.


I actually had this issue driving in Poland... I thought I had priority but whoa, car is coming from my left :lol:
Just adopting the "permitted unless expressly forbidden" standard of the USA/Canada would be cheaper and better IMO.

I've noticed in some jurisdictions (e.g. Laval, Quebec) they put the "no turn on red" when the opposite side has a protected left turn phase. But elsewhere (e.g. Ontario) this isn't used and typically you have right turn on red and protected left turns intermingling. Honestly... I don't see the issue, just pay attention :lol:


----------



## xrtn2 (Jan 12, 2011)

grykaerugoves said:


> I like the Brazillian model of using yellow lines to divide oncomming traffic and white multi lane markings. Very nice.


kay:


----------



## Gedeon (Apr 5, 2013)

Kpc21 said:


> Do you have any idea WHY this excluded area at the beginning of the left-turn lane? It would be much simpler if it wasn't present and you could drive smoothly onto this lane. Which many drivers do anyway, ignoring the excluded area.


Because you can't stop there without partly blocking the other lane.


----------



## MattiG (Feb 11, 2011)

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Yeah, if I saw a green light arrow, I would automatically assume that I can make a turn without having to stop first.


That is a common way to interpret the traffic lights arrow. The German way in non-intuitive because a lit green arrow and a non-lit green arrow do not have the same meaning.

In Finland (and in many other countries, I believe), the right-turn-on-red is allowed if the turning lane is clearly separated from the main carriageway and from the traffic lights, like here:

https://goo.gl/maps/KrC7RJb1YbG2

The allowed setups in Finland are:









Right-turn traffic has its own lane after the crossing









No conflicting traffic flow from the opposite direction









Right-turning and left-turning traffic end up at different lanes









The separating triangle big enough: The left-turning traffic from the opposite direction has merged to the crossing road before the point of conflict.

Other rules apply, too: If the pedestrian path across the separating triangle is contiguous, its minimum length is 6 meters.


----------



## Kpc21 (Oct 3, 2008)

Gedeon said:


> Because you can't stop there without partly blocking the other lane.


When you apply to the lines and stop in the allowed area, you block the other lane anyway. Not partly, but fully.

So I don't see any sense in it. It makes the situation worse rather then better. If you block the lane partially, you can still be overtaken by vehicles like bicycles, motorbikes, narrower cars.



MattiG said:


> That is a common way to interpret the traffic lights arrow. The German way in non-intuitive because a lit green arrow and a non-lit green arrow do not have the same meaning.


The Polish way is even more non-intuitive, since both arrows are lit and they have totally different meanings.



MattiG said:


> In Finland (and in many other countries, I believe), the right-turn-on-red is allowed if the turning lane is clearly separated from the main carriageway and from the traffic lights, like here:
> 
> https://goo.gl/maps/KrC7RJb1YbG2


In Poland, such a set-up is not allowed. The separated right-turn carriageway has to have the traffic light too.

Which is often annoying for the pedestrians. See here, for example: https://goo.gl/maps/jNa9ALEHRTG2










If I walk the street from the right - on the sidewalk on the side of the camera - and I want then to go forward from the camera perspective, on the right-hand sidewalk, I have wait for the green light twice. 

Of course, I usually ignore the red light on the right-turn lane, but it's how you can easily get a fine from the police.


----------



## Gedeon (Apr 5, 2013)

Kpc21 said:


> When you apply to the lines and stop in the allowed area, you block the other lane anyway. Not partly, but fully.
> 
> So I don't see any sense in it. It makes the situation worse rather then better. If you block the lane partially, you can still be overtaken by vehicles like bicycles, motorbikes, narrower cars.


But such overtaking isn't allowed. Therefore, the markings are done like that.

I agree that it maybe would be better without them.


----------



## Kpc21 (Oct 3, 2008)

It is allowed as long as you can fit with your vehicle between the vehicle in the queue and the curb (or the line). It's how it is sometimes in front of the traffic lights where there is only one *marked* lane, but the street and this lane are so wide, that actually two cars (although not trucks or buses) fit on it next to each other and they create two *unmarked* lanes ("virtual" ones, but the law allows it - at least our Polish law says that the lanes may be "marked" or "unmarked").

Maybe it's different in the US, Croatia, or wherever you are from


----------

