# THAILAND | High Speed Rail



## napoleon

Thai Forum https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=944672


Thailand to build over 2,500-km high-speed railways in 20 years

BANGKOK, March 30 (Xinhua) -- Thailand will build 2,506 km high-speed railways linking northern Chiang Mai, northeastern Nong Khai, southeastern Rayong and southern Padang Besar with the capital by 2036, a Thai official said.

Suphalerk Soodyodprasert, Rail Project Development Officer from the Office of Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning (OTP) under Thai Ministry of Transport, introduced the development of high-speed railways in Thailand Thursday at the Rail Asia Expo & RISE Symposium.

The first phase of Bangkok-Nong Khai high-speed rail, Thailand's first high-speed railway under Thailand-China cooperation, is under construction after a ground-breaking ceremony late last year, Suphalerk said.

He also introduced Thailand's master plan of high-speed railways.

The four projects in the first period from 2017 to 2021 include a 253-km first phase of China-Thailand cooperation project, or the high-speed rail between Bangkok and Nakhon Ratchasima, a 355-km second phase from Nakhon Ratchasima to Nong Khai on the Thai-Lao border, a high-speed rail linking Suvarnabhumi, Don Mueang and U-Tapao airports and its further extension to Rayong, and a 380-km Bangkok-Phitsanulok high-speed rail, according to Suphalerk.

He added that a 211-km Bangkok-Hua Hin high-speed rail has been put into the second period of plan, which lasts from 2022 to 2026.

A 288-km high speed rail from Phitsanulok to Chiang Mai is also planned in the second period.

For the third period from 2027 to 2036, Thailand plans to extend the Bangkok-Hua Hin high-speed railway by 424 km to Surat Thani and then another 335 km to Padang Besar on the Thai-Malaysian border.

The master plan is set to cost some 1.57 trillion baht (about 50 billion U.S. dollars).

30/3/2018 http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-03/30/c_137077695.htm


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## napoleon

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## napoleon

Thailand's location drives transport investment plan

A modal shift in transport for greater competitiveness is the name of the game behind the government's massive infrastructure development programme, which will be kicked off this year with the tendering of four high-speed-rail projects.

Under the grand plan, 55 projects worth Bt2.27 trillion (US$66.29 billion) are to be completed by 2020.

These projects are part of the government's long-term development plan but are being expedited by a commitment to infrastructure investment, the opening up of Myanmar, and the implementation of the Asean Economic Community (AEC).

The Finance Ministry is expected to submit a draft Bt2.2-trillion borrowing bill for the Cabinet’s approval this month.

In the 2013 fiscal year, infrastructure spending of Bt100 billion is earmarked, according to Transport Minister Chadchart Sittipunt.

"The infrastructure development projects are designed to make Thailand the true centre stage of Asean. Under this plan, Bangkok will no longer singly represent Thailand. Major cities will gain greater prominence, thanks to the AEC, which will allow us to expand our territory without having to go to war, and extend regional connectivity," the minister said in an interview.

Of the total budget of Bt2.2 trillion, 64 per cent will fund 31 rail-related projects, 24 per cent will go to 13 road projects, 7 per cent to seven water-transport projects, and 4.75 per cent to four air-transport projects.

Ultimately, these projects are expected to improve linkages between Thailand and its Asean neighbours, reduce logistics costs, deal with growing traffic congestion, and boost tourism revenue.

Chadchart envisages Thailand as the centre of Asean through its presence in the Bay of Bengal Initiative for Multi-Sectoral Technical and Economic Cooperation (Bimstec), the Greater Mekong Subregion (GMS), the Ayeyawady-Chao Phraya-Mekong Economic Cooperation Strategy (ACEMECS), and the Indonesia-Malaysia-Thailand Growth Triangle.

To benefit fully from these connections, Thailand requires a new seamless network and new rules to facilitate cross-border transport.

Thailand will be linked with the regional groups through the Southern Economic Corridor (Bangkok-Phnom Penh-Ho Chi Minh City), the East-West Economic Corridor (Malamang-Phitsanulok-Khon Kaen-Savannakhet-Danang), and the North-South Economic Corridor (which links Thailand with Kunming, China, via Laos and Myanmar). Through Route R9, Thailand will link Vietnam, Cambodia and Myanmar.

The road links are expected to boost border trade, which totalled $22.7 billion in the first nine months of 2012.

"We need to be friends with all our neighbours and must not take advantage of them. This can be a win-win deal for all sides," Chadchart said.

New investments in rail projects are designed to reduce logistics costs, which now account for 15.2 per cent of gross domestic product, against 8.3 per cent in the United States.

The cost is high as freight transport is 86 per cent by road, though this mode is the most polluting and most dangerous to life.

From 71 billion kilotonnes equivalent of carbon emission in 2010, 35 per cent came from goods transport and 36 per cent from the manufacturing sector.

Shipment by rail and water, currently at 12 per cent and 2 per cent respectively, will be promoted because of their lower costs compared to road transport.

"Rail transport should be tentatively raised to 40 per cent," Chadchart said.

Costing a total of Bt900 billion, the four high-speed-rail routes will help the government achieve that goal.

While the high-speed trains will speed up travel for individual commuters, they will also promise a shorter transport period for goods.

In Bangkok, where new roads cannot be built, the combined length of the electric-train routes will be expanded by 10 times from 40 kilometres to 468.8km. Tendering of the MRT Pink Line is expected to take place next month.

"If the tendering of all 10 new projects can be launched within two years, they will all be completed seven years from now," he said.

In the air-transport segment, some airports will be improved to attract more tourism revenue.

"There are 38 airports in Thailand, but 72 per cent of tourist arrivals are seen through Suvarnabhumi Airport," Chadchart said.

"The bottleneck must be tackled. In this regard, the Mae Sot airport could be used for travel to Myanmar."

He said there was plenty of fiscal room to finance the projects.

"We can issue 3-per-cent bonds to finance the infrastructure projects.

"This is worthwhile as it will reduce energy consumption, pollution and logistics costs. We can invest first and pay back the investment through profits reaped from the projects," he said.

The government tentatively plans to finance 8 per cent of the needed funds through revenue of involved state enterprises, 69 per cent through borrowing by government and state enterprises, 9 per cent through annual fiscal budgets, and 14 per cent through public-private investment.

Unlike the Bt350-billion budget for the water-management scheme, which is backed by a borrowing decree, the minister said it was necessary for the government issue a law to back the Bt2.27-trillion transport-infrastructure investment.

"We need a law as we want to make it a national agenda, turning the projects into contingency plans that will bind all [subsequent] governments to follow through. It's a necessity for the nation. Whoever becomes the government must continue with it, as it will benefit the entire country."

To Chadchart, dealing with environmental concerns is key to the success of the scheme. Without public acceptance, the projects could face delays.

As much of the investment will go to rail projects, the government also needs to make sure that the State Railway of Thailand is capable of handling the projects.

He said the new SRT governor Prapat Chongsanguan and the labour union had started to see the urgency of restructuring, as few want to take a train ride because of poor service.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/bus...drives-transport-investment-pla-30197376.html


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## napoleon

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## napoleon

BANGKOK | Bang Sue Central Station

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1583451



Source: Design Concept Co.



















napoleon said:


> SRT inks deal for Bang Sue rail terminus
> 
> Published: 19 Jan 2013
> 
> The State Railway of Thailand (SRT) yesterday signed a multi-billion-baht contract for the construction of a new railway terminus and depot in Bang Sue.
> 
> The project is expected to be completed in two and a half years.
> 
> Sino-Thai Engineering & Construction Pcl and Unique Engineering and Construction Pcl were contracted to build the Bang Sue terminus and depot worth 29 billion baht for the SRT.
> 
> The terminus will house four platforms for community trains, 12 platforms for long-distance trains, eight platforms for future use, a ticket office, a ramp to connect to the subway system and a multi-storey car park.
> 
> Presiding over the contract signing ceremony, Transport Minister Chadchat Sittipunt said he would push for the construction to be completed within two and a half years.
> 
> He said the Bang Sue station will play an important role in the country's mass transit system because it will serve as a hub for all the country's electric rail networks. He said there will be good connections to other modes of transport, unlike with the Makkasan Airport Rail Link station which was not properly connected to other forms of transport.
> 
> The contract signed yesterday was part of the Bang Sue-Rangsit section of the Red Line electric railway project.
> 
> The second contract of the project concerns the construction of the railway track between Bang Sue and Rangsit. Project creditor, the Japan International Cooperation Agency, is reviewing investment details. The minister expects the signing to take place next month.
> 
> The third contract for the Bang Sue-Rangsit project is for the procurement of trains. Officials are examining the shareholding details of a potential contractor before this is signed.
> 
> Mr Chadchat said Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, who paid a visit this week, had expressed Japan's interest in Thai infrastructure projects, especially in transport such as high-speed railways.
> 
> The minister said he has encouraged Japan to bid for high-speed railway contracts in the future.
> 
> Mr Chadchat said bidding contest terms for the signalling system and train procurement would be announced in the third quarter of this year.
> 
> http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/transport/331557/srt-inks-deal-for-bang-sue-rail-terminus


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## napoleon

High-speed train bids to start in 2013

Published: 17/08/2012 at 02:06 AM 

The government plans to open international bidding early next year on the first phase of the high-speed rail project.

The 400-billion-baht first phase is scheduled to be completed in 2018.

The high-speed train system will largely run alongside existing lines.

They are Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima on the Bangkok-Nong Khai line; Bangkok-Hua Hin on the Bangkok-Padang Besar line; Bangkok-Phitsanulok-Chiang Mai; and Bangkok-Pattaya-Rayong on an extension line from Suvarnabhumi airport.

Cost of the first phase is estimated at 400 billion baht for a system that can handle speeds of up to 250 kilometres per hour.

Passengers will travel 3.44 hours on the 745-km of Bangkok-Chiang Mai route, 1.35 hours on the 256-km Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima route, 1.09 hours on the 225-km Bangkok-Hua Hin route and one hour on the 220-km Bangkok-Rayong route.

Construction will be along existing routes, while the governors of provinces along the way must submit reasons for having a station in their province.

The international bidding will be held early next year after completion of environmental and health impact assessments.

Pansak Vinyaratn, chairman of the advisory board to Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, said the government is negotiating with bidders from South Korea, Japan, China and France.

The high-speed train will supply other Asean members and southern China with goods such as light parts, high-tech parts, seafood, fresh-cut flowers, vegetables and fruits.

The government anticipates that goods shipment by rail will increase to 80% of the total in six years from only 2% now.

This will reduce logistics costs by 35% or 400 billion baht a year on lower petrol consumption.

As well, warehouse costs and increased management efficiency will bring the total annual saving to 720 billion baht.

Currently, 17-35% of fresh goods turn rotten in transit.

Revenue from fruit exports is targeted at 336 billion baht in 2018, up from 56 billion last year.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/transport/307991/high-speed-train-bids-to-start-in-2013


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## napoleon

High-speed train to Pattaya in 5 years

Published: 11 Mar 2013 

The first high-speed train line to Pattaya is expected to begin by 2018 after the government opens a bid to build the service in September, a senior Transport Ministry official said on Monday.

Chula Sukmanob, director of the Office of Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning, said the Pattaya line would take five years to complete for the one-hour route. It will be followed by trains to Nakhon Ratchasima, Phitsanulok and Hua Hin a year later.

The train will run at 250 kilometres per hour.

Update: Pattaya high-speed link on track for 2018
Mr Chula said the bid for the technology for the four high-speed lines could take place in September followed by bids for other aspects. The bid for technology can help the government to project the entire construction cost, he added.

Japan, China, South Korea, France, Germany and Spain are among possible contenders for the bid on technology.

The train project is part of the government's 2 trillion baht infrastructure development scheme. It plans to forward the draft for the developments to parliament for approval this month.

The second phase of the train project includes the extension of the Phitsanulok line to Chiang Mai.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/transport/339918/high-speed-train-to-pattaya-in-5-years


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## napoleon

Pattaya high-speed link on track for 2018

Published: 12 Mar 2013

The government is aiming to complete the country's first high-speed train between Bangkok and Pattaya by 2018.

Three other lines linking the capital with Phitsanulok, Nakhon Ratchasima and Hua Hin are also scheduled to be completed the following year.

The planned four high-speed rail routes are part of infrastructure projects under the 2-trillion-baht borrowing plan to be tabled before the cabinet for its approval next Tuesday.

Barring any problems, the bill will be forwarded to parliament by the end of this month for final approval, with a target to complete all projects in seven years.

Other key projects to be financed with borrowing under the bill include 10 mass transit projects, dual track railways and road projects which have undergone environmental impact analyses.

Of the total borrowing, 1.65 trillion baht will be spent on railway development, 30.7 billion baht on water transport system development, 243 billion baht on road development, and 12.19 billion baht on road checkpoint development.

Chula Sookmanob, director of the Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning Office, said the government expected to invite bids for the four high-speed trains in September. Bidders will be required to specify their technology for the train in the bidding contest to enable the government to project the construction cost. Interest is expected from Japan, China, South Korea, France, Germany and Spain.

Mr Chula said the government will establish a new organisation before September to manage the high-speed links.

He said the government hopes to be able to reduce the country's logistics costs by at least 2 per cent after all projects featured in the bill are completed.

The country's logistics costs stood at 1.75 billion baht in 2012 against its gross domestic product of 11.5 trillion baht in the same year.

The projects could also reduce fuel costs by at least 100 billion baht a year and cut travelling time between Bangkok and the provinces within a 300km radius to 90 minutes from three hours.

PM's Office Minister Varathep Ratanakorn said the government would meet state agencies on Friday to make sure it can clearly answer questions about the projects that may be raised in parliament.

Earlier report: High speed train to Pattaya in 5 years
The government has extended an exhibition on the projects by another four days to Saturday to make sure the public are informed about them, he said.

Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva reiterated Monday he disagreed with the borrowing plan.

Mr Abhisit visited the exhibition with deputy leader Korn Chatikavanij and party spokesman Chavanond Intarakomalyasut Monday at the Government Complex on Chaeng Watthana Road.

They were accompanied by Finance Minister and Deputy Prime Minister Kittiratt Na-Ranong and Transport Minister Chadchat Sittipunt.

Mr Abhisit said the projects could be implemented through the original 300-billion-baht plan using the annual budget since some of them are already included in ongoing development plans. He cited dual-track railways as an example.

He also said the planned high-speed railways should be extended to Nong Khai and Malaysia instead of ending at Nakhon Ratchasima and Hua Hin.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/339944/pattaya-high-speed-link-on-track-for-2018



Map shows the four high-speed rail projects currently in the planning stage, with the red line to Pattaya to be built within five years.


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## napoleon

Thailand gears up for massive high-speed train project

10:12 PM 17 March 2013
DPA/Bangkok

Thailand is poised to place its economic growth aboard a $60bn high-speed train project which could help drag the Asian country out of the middle-income trap.

Tomorrow, the cabinet is expected to accept a bill to allow the government to raise 2.2tn baht ($73.3bn) in off-budget spending on infrastructure investments over the next seven years, 80% of which is destined for new railways linking Bangkok to the provinces.

The legislation would then need approval from parliament, which is expected by the end of the month. The special law is controversial as it allows the Finance Ministry to borrow above the annual budget, despite rules that limit public debt to less than 60% of gross domestic product.

“There is a danger that the law will become a loophole,” said former finance minister Chalongphob Sussangkarn, a senior economist at the Thailand Development Research Institute (TDRI). “It bypasses all the fiscal discipline in the system.”

The new law also raises transparency questions.

“If it is off-budget, there is no parliamentary scrutiny, so the disbursement procedures can become lax and fiscal prudence goes out of the window,” said Korn Chatikavanij, another former finance minister and deputy leader of the opposition Democrat Party.

Korn said the government’s normal budget could cover the 2.2tn-baht expenditure for the project that most parties seem to agree is necessary. A high-speed rail link between Bangkok and Nong Khai in north-eastern Thailand was a key campaign promise of the Democrat Party for the 2010 election.

“The infrastructure investments will not only increase GDP by an average of 1% per year but also create 500,000 jobs,” Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said recently. The Finance Ministry has predicted the trains will help lift the country out of the middle-income trap - in which a country’s economy stagnates before it becomes wealthy - by 2020.

The railways project is also expected to cut national fuel costs by 300bn baht ($10bn) a year and create new domestic trade routes.

It would eventually link Thailand to China via a $7bn high-speed railway planned through landlocked Laos, and through Malaysia to Singapore.

According to the initial plan, the high-speed tracks will be built parallel to existing rails operated by the state railway authority from Bangkok to Chiang Mai, Nakhon Ratchasima, Hua Hin and Pattaya.

“I think we will start them all at the same time,” Transport Minister Chadchart Sittipunt said. “We will start bidding in the third of fourth quarter, and construction begins next year.”

The project’s success will hinge on the performance of Chadchart, a former professor of civil engineering at Chulalongkorn University who was appointed minister in October.

Chadchart has come with a clean reputation to a ministry regarded as corrupt. “The biggest credit I would give this government is for giving this job to Chadchart. He’s a very good guy,” Korn said. “If he stands firm, and makes sure no politicians make money from this, that’s very good news for the country.”

So far, only Japanese and Chinese firms have expressed serious interest in the high-speed train project. “I haven’t heard anything from the German firms,” Chadchart said.

One problem Chadchart faces is what to do with State Railways of Thailand (SRT), the 122-year-old enterprise that is losing about 10bn baht a year.

“If the new high-speed trains are run by the SRT, it’s going to be a complete disaster,” Chalongphob said.

The TDRI, which researched the feasibility of the high-speed rail project last year, concluded that it would benefit the country if the government insisted that international bidders include local parts in the trains. That would protect Thailand from becoming totally dependent on imports to keep the trains going in the future.

“I think there is a conjunction of interests to make this project happen, but the question is whether it will be worth it for Thailand,” Chalongphob said.

http://www.gulf-times.com/asean-phi...gears-up-for-massive-high-speed-train-project


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## napoleon

Government to Ensure Transparency in Its Planned Two-Trillion-Baht Investment Projects 

(15/03/2013)

The Government will ensure transparency in its planned investment in transportation and logistics mega-projects, worth two trillion baht, or 66 billion US dollars.

Transport Minister Chadchart Sittipunt said that many people visiting the Thailand 2020 exposition had expressed their opinions about the mega-projects, which would be implemented over the next seven years.

The exposition began on 9 March and will run through 16 March at the Government Complex on Chaeng Watthana Road in Bangkok. It shows Thailand’s future in 2020, with the infrastructure development mega-projects. The Government expects that it will create confidence among investors and the people.

Mr. Chadchart said that the Thailand 2020 exposition had received a positive response from members of the public and private sectors, students and the general public. He said that, apart from providing visitors with information and proper understanding about the Government’s investment in transportation and logistics networks in all regions of the country, the Thailand 2020 exposition has also offered an opportunity for the Government to listen to public opinion on the mega-projects.

He stated that, in a survey of the mega-projects, most respondents to the questionnaire expressed their concern about corruption that might take place in various steps of the project implementation. They called for a monitoring process to ensure practices of transparency in all projects.

In this regard, Mr. Chadchart said that the Government and the Anti-Corruption Organization of Thailand had discussed the issue relating to various matters, such as procurement procedures, specifications, and auction processes. The issue must also cover the Government’s investment of 350 billion baht to finance flood prevention and water management projects.

He said that the Government and Anti-Corruption Organization of Thailand would sign a document for cooperation in ensuring transparency and good governance on the mega-projects.

The Anti-Corruption Organization of Thailand, a private sector initiative, was launched in 2011. It comprises members of the Thai Chamber of Commerce, the Thai Bankers Association and the Federation of Capital Market Organizations. The objective is to raise public awareness and antipathy against corruption through education, suppression, and transparency.

The Cabinet recently approved the initial plans to invest two trillion baht in transportation and logistics. Some of these projects include high-speed trains and dual train track development, a better overall road network for connecting ASEAN economic corridors, improved sea ports, and more border facilities to enhance border trade.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said that Thailand’s strong fiscal position allows the country to finance these projects through various sources, including government borrowing. The participation of the private sector will be encouraged in some projects, as well.

http://thailand.prd.go.th/view_news.php?id=6683&a=2


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## napoleon

Cabinet approves bill for Bt2 trillion loans, goes to parliament tomorrow

BANGKOK, March 19 – The cabinet today approved a bill empowering the Finance Ministry to seek Bt2 trillion in loans for investment in Thailand’s communication and transport infrastructure.

Deputy Prime Minister/Finance Minister Kittiratt Na-Ranong said the loans, to be sought from domestic and international financial sources, will raise Thailand’s public debt, but at less than 50 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP), a level not exceeding the financial disciplinary framework.

The first decade of payment will be mainly for interest --Bt20 billion-- while the principal plus interest will be paid from the 11th year onward until the Bt2.2 trillion package is totally paid up. The entire debt payment period takes fifty years.

Mr Kittiratt said the loans will be mainly sought from domestic financial sources which have a liquidity of over Bt2 trillion at present, adding that the government will avoid borrowing from overseas to avoid impacting the Thai baht and prevent an influx of foreign capital.

Transport Minister Chadchat Sittipunt said several projects on road, rail and marine transportation will be simultaneously kicked off while constructions of high-speed train system, dual railway tracks and major roads will be carried out in parallel.

He said the appreciating Thai baht will not have a negative impact on the infrastructure project since most construction materials are from domestic suppliers while imports are not an obstacle thanks to the strengthened Thai currency.

Minister to the Prime Minister’s Office Varathep Rattanakorn said the proposed bill will be tabled to the House of Representatives tomorrow and deliberations will be speeded up so that constructions will start as planned.

The House of Representatives should pass the bill in September, he said.

An appendix of the bill puts the infrastructure development project under three major strategies: 1) strategy on lower-cost transport system at a cost of Bt354.560 billion, 2) strategy on communication and transport to connect with neighbouring countries at Bt1.04 trillion, and 3) strategy on upgrading transport system for more flexibility at Bt593.801 billion. The remaining loans will be spent to support the three strategies.

Under strategy I, rail and marine transport systems will be developed and dual tracks will be built on various routes including Lopburi-Denchai, Map Kabao-Jira Junction, Jira Junction-Ubon Ratchathani, Nakhon Pathom-Hua Hin-Surat Thani-Padang Besar and other routes that connect to the core network.

The strategy also includes development of marine and shore transport emphasising development of deep-sea ports and seaside ports on the coasts of the Gulf of Thailand in the East and the Andaman Sea in the West to link with the road and rail system.

Strategy II calls for development of infrastructure for communication and transport to the country centre and connections to neighbouring countries. The high-speed train system under Strategy II includes several routes: Bangkok-Chiang Mai, Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima-Nong Khai, Bangkok-Hua Hin-Padang Besar, Suvarnabhumi-Chachoengsao-Pattaya-Rayong, Denchai-Chiang Rai and Ban Pai-Mukdaharn-Nakhon Phanom.

Strategy III concentrates on Bangkok with construction of a complete rail network to connect the city centre and suburban areas for commuting convenience. (MCOT online news)

http://www.mcot.net/site/content?id=514838f7150ba0c410000076#.UUhftxeBmpc


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## napoleon

One high-speed bidder to rule them all

Published: 20 Mar 2013 at 17.51

The government will select just one firm from all bidders to run four high-speed train lines, probably by the third quarter of the year, Transport Minister Chadchat Sittipunt said on Wednesday.

The minister said bids will cover trains and their signal systems. Bidding on civil work will follow, he added.

Train manufacturers from China, Japan, Spain, South Korea and France have so far shown interest in building and running high-speed trains. There are high-speed trains in all five countries.

Mr Chadchat said the government will select only one winner to operate the four lines. The government "does not want to have four different systems of the high-speed train on four routes because that could mean high maintenance costs," he said. "So only one firm will be selected."

The first four lines to be put to bids will run from Bangkok to Pattaya, Phitsanulok, Nakhon Ratchasima and Hua Hin.

Once it is running, the eastern train to Pattaya will be extended to Rayong and probably Chanthaburi and Trat. Long range plans call for other extensions as well. The northern train will be further built from Phitsanulok to Chiang Mai; Nong Khai is already planned to be the eventual terminus of the Northeast route from Nakhon Ratchasima, and the line to Hua Hin will go further south to Padang Besar in Songkhla province, at the Malaysia border.

The government expects the country's first high-speed train between Bangkok and Pattaya to be running by 2018. The lines to Phitsanulok, Nakhon Ratchasima and Hua Hin are scheduled to be completed in 2019.

High-speed train plans are central to the government's two-trillion baht scheme for megaprojects to improve infrastructure.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/transport/341540/winner-takes-all-on-high-speed-train-lines


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## napoleon

Designing a Happy Journey: Reviving Kyushu through creativity

When	16 March - 26 May 2013 | 10:30-21:00
Where	Gallery 2, TCDC

While Thailand is embarking upon a transport system reform with a view to equipping the railway system, which costs less in terms of fuel consumption, with “high speed” in order to ensure the economic growth and welfare of its citizens, Japan is already at the top of its development in railways, which extend a valuable service from main cities and local areas.

Kyushu is one of the areas where quality and new travel experience has boosted the island’s economy and local incomes. Kyushu Railway Company (JR Kyushu) selected designer Eiji Mitooka to fulfill what was missing in bus service and air travel. That was to be more than a mean of transport and make a superb and joyful journey. Mitooka’s user-centered philosophy focused on the user’s convenience, and also captured the local identity through the use of local materials. His work for JR Kyushu company for over 25 years will be showcased in this exhibition, including the exterior and interior of 29 trains, the development of railway stations, property projects, public relations media, etc.

The success of “JR Kyushu” is a striking case study not only of the advancement of technology and effective management, but also of a winning combination of “Kyushu’s elements”, “business acumen” and “design process”. The principle was applied to every aspect of the rail services and the company became Japan’s biggest provider of sightseeing railway operations. It also involved the local community in the development of train, helped boost local businesses both in agricultural and tourism sectors, and generated income which allowed more local development and better visiting experience.

“Designing a Happy Journey: Reviving Kyushu through creativity” is a collaboration between Kyushu Railway Company (JR Kyushu) and Thailand Creative & Design Center (TCDC), in association with Don Design Associates (DDA) with support from Japan External Trade Organization (JETRO, Bangkok). This exhibition from Japan has been retitled from “Eiji Mitooka Happy Railway Design Exhibition”, with rearranged content.

http://www.tcdc.or.th/eventse.php?act=view&id=477&lang=en


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## napoleon

Thailand 2020 Exhibition



hs5prw said:


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## Guest

Fantastic project. Thailand long deserved to change the gear in development and such insane infrastructure upgrade will certainly assist that.


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## Codename B

*Central provinces set for high-speed railway boost
Prices for properties near stations may rise*
Published: 23 Mar 2013 at 00.00

*Lop Buri and Nakhon Sawan are expected to be the top two provinces for rising land prices in the coming years if the first phase of four high-speed train projects kicks off.*

Thitiwat Teerakulthanyaroj, an executive vice-president of property consultant Century 21 Realty Affiliates (Thailand), said both provinces will become an emerging market for property once they have high-speed train stations.

"These two Central Plains provinces are new to property development as there have been no key drivers," he said. "Their land prices have been stable."

According to the Transport Ministry, the first phase of the four high-speed routes will run from Bangkok to Phitsanulok (342 kilometres), Nakhon Ratchasima (256 km), Pattaya (187 km) and Hua Hin (225 km).

Mr Thitiwat said other destinations served by the first four routes have seen an increase in land prices for consecutive years and already have a mature property market.

Pattaya is driven by tourism and industry, Hua Hin by tourism and Ayutthaya by industry, while Phitsanulok and Nakhon Ratchasima are big cities and transport hubs.

Mr Thitiwat said high-speed rail links will bring an opportunity to create new development near stations.

Areas within the first ring close to stations will usually belong to the government, which may lease land to the private sector to develop commercial property such as hotels, offices, retail outlets and conference facilities.

"The second ring will attract condo development due to higher land prices. The third ring will be for low-rise houses," Mr Thitiwat said.

In phase two of the high-speed rail network, routes will extend to Chiang Mai in the North, Nong Khai in the Northeast, Rayong and probably Chanthaburi and Trat in the East and Padang Besar in Songkhla in the South.

Late last month, Century 21 joined Thammasat University's architecture and planning faculty to conduct a survey on condo demand near high-speed rail lines among 1,115 people living in Bangkok, Nonthaburi and Pathum Thani.

About 88% of respondents agreed that high-speed rail influenced their decisions to buy a condo unit.

The most popular route was Bangkok-Chiang Mai, followed by Nakhon Ratchasima, Hua Hin and Rayong.

Asst Prof Pornphan Verapreyagura said people view Chiang Mai as a booming tourist destination after many Chinese visitors followed a popular Chinese film made in the province.

However, Mr Thitiwat said the Bangkok-Chiang Mai route will be more difficult to build than other routes due to its undulating geography.

The 745-km route is so long that an environmental impact assessment will take longer, but the route is regarded as the most valuable.

Asst Prof Pornphan is also researching the three restive deep-South provinces of Narathiwat, Pattani and Yala.

"They are strategic destinations, a door to other Asean countries, due to good infrastructure," she said.

"Despite the violence, people in these three provinces rarely relocate elsewhere. Fewer than 1% have moved out, but they did not sell their houses in their hometowns."

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/retail/341985/central-provinces-set-for-high-speed-railway-boost


----------



## Cyganie

napoleon said:


> Source: Design Concept Co.
> 
> 
> 
> http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4753/50044852jq0.jpg
> http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/1199/62340895cw8.jpg
> http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4866/15810608rm2.jpg
> http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/8718/75444781.jpg
> http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/6872/61944200.jpg
> http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3765/60316267.jpg
> http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/3125/71992321.jpg


Looks more like an airport terminal, but I like it! In what way will the new station have impact on Hualamphong Station in Bangkok and will there be a connection between both stations?

[/QUOTE]

Yingluck is so beautiful, suay mak! :cheers:


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## Silly_Walks

3.2 looks like a woman spreading her holiness


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## Sunfuns

All this looks great, but is there already a money for building it? What is the probability that a significant portion of it get's accomplished within the next 10-15 years? I have no way of looking past the shiny plans, but perhaps someone here who lives there or can read Thai has some deeper insight. Thailand is still a relatively poor country after all..


----------



## archstudent

^^ ofcouse, we have money (see previous page for more info.) 

last thing, maybe you should change your attitude about thai economy... we are not poor country anymore and our gdp keep growing 6-7% from now
click here for more info
high speed train and other kind of infrastructure are an important factor for future economy growth


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## Sunfuns

archstudent said:


> ^^ ofcouse, we have money (see previous page for more info.)
> 
> and last thing i wanna tell you.. *do not underestimate thai economy*


It's all good then, looking forward to see pictures of actual construction soon. 

As for Thai economy, I was roughly familiar with the situation already. It's much better than in neighbouring Laos or Myanmar, nevertheless among countries having, currently building or seriously contemplating HSR only Morocco has lover GDP per capita.


----------



## tonii

Sunfuns said:


> It's all good then, looking forward to see pictures of actual construction soon.
> 
> As for Thai economy, I was roughly familiar with the situation already. It's much better than in neighbouring Laos or Myanmar, nevertheless among countries having, currently building or seriously contemplating HSR only Morocco has lover GDP per capita.


Thailand is not super rich like those developed nations. But compare it with Laos and Myanmar is a very very wrong idea.


----------



## melrocks50

tonii said:


> Thailand is not super rich like those developed nations. But compare it with Laos and Myanmar is a very very wrong idea.


He's not comparing it to Laos or Myanmar, he's simply saying that Thailand is more developed. Still, don't get mad when people say Thailand is far from a high income economy because it is true. Also, based on the design, I'm a bit skeptical SRT will be able to manage and maintain all those large futuristic stations and facilities, because based on the dirty ugly current stations that are in use, I seriously doubt they can manage these stations, but that's just me. If they can, then kudos! Thailand's train system will finally be vastly upgraded!


----------



## tonii

melrocks50 said:


> He's not comparing it to Laos or Myanmar, he's simply saying that Thailand is more developed. Still, don't get mad when people say Thailand is far from a high income economy because it is true. Also, based on the design, I'm a bit skeptical SRT will be able to manage and maintain all those large futuristic stations and facilities, because based on the dirty ugly current stations that are in use, I seriously doubt they can manage these stations, but that's just me. If they can, then kudos! Thailand's train system will finally be vastly upgraded!


Nah. I didnt get mad. I dont even live in the country anymore. But saying it is far from high income is different from it is poor income, dont you think. He had the judgement on the country which he is not familiar with. You tell me that is a fair post? Thailand is high middle income economy and rank 20th for total GDP. The total budget to build high speed rail is roughly 7% of yearly GDP. Tell me if that economy cannot support the project ? He didnt even accept that he was wrong but change the point to that he was not familiar with the country. Come on...


----------



## hans280

tonii said:


> You tell me that is a fair post? Thailand is high middle income economy and rank 20th for total GDP. The total budget to build high speed rail is roughly 7% of yearly GDP. Tell me if that economy cannot support the project ? He didnt even accept that he was wrong but change the point to that he was not familiar with the country. Come on...


Yes, but there's a wider range of issues here. One of them is, who shall ultimately pay for the construction costs - in particular, how much does the government plan to subsidise. This is closely linked to the question of levels of economic development. In France (where I live), the TGVs are sometimes nicknamed "millionaire trains" because virtually no low-income individuals, and no families with children, can/will pay the ticket prices. Yet the ticket prices are no higher than what SNCF must necessarily demand in order to recoup the construction costs. The French conclusion would be that high-speed trains make sense only when the economy is so highly developed that your average citizen is a well-heeled member of the middle class. It is also for this reason that the only mid-income country so far who has invested in HS is Morocco - a decision which was heavily "influenced" by its formal colonial masters in France. 

This is NOT to say that Thailand cannot afford to invest in HS lines and rolling stock. Of course it can. The question is, what happens then? It would probably have to be either (1) trains running half-empty most of the time; or (2) the government dishing out a hefty subsidy to keep ticket prices low.


----------



## tonii

hans280 said:


> Yes, but there's a wider range of issues here. One of them is, who shall ultimately pay for the construction costs - in particular, how much does the government plan to subsidise. This is closely linked to the question of levels of economic development. In France (where I live), the TGVs are sometimes nicknamed "millionaire trains" because virtually no low-income individuals, and no families with children, can/will pay the ticket prices. Yet the ticket prices are no higher than what SNCF must necessarily demand in order to recoup the construction costs. The French conclusion would be that high-speed trains make sense only when the economy is so highly developed that your average citizen is a well-heeled member of the middle class. It is also for this reason that the only mid-income country so far who has invested in HS is Morocco - a decision which was heavily "influenced" by its formal colonial masters in France.
> 
> This is NOT to say that Thailand cannot afford to invest in HS lines and rolling stock. Of course it can. The question is, what happens then? It would probably have to be either (1) trains running half-empty most of the time; or (2) the government dishing out a hefty subsidy to keep ticket prices low.


Yes, your point is absolutely valid. It's not the problem about the money for investment in the project. But how to sustain it in a long run when the project itself is known as a non-profit by running the service only. There is a very clear example from the countries which already has this running, including Europe and East Asia.

The government have seen it and clearly communicate that by only operate the service alone won't give back any investment return. But there are multiple reasons for them to still push forward the project. One of the reason is to increase the economy activity on each region along the rail line. And push the people outside the capital city, make the link between all sub provinces around bangkok to link into bankok (and vice versa to other region hub city) easier and faster. This which cannot be archived by domestic low-cost airline. There are a lot of gap to fill regarding to thailand transportation system. Especially for the train which is very very old. Also the freight transportation which will also share the new link network for faster transfer as well. 

And other clear reason for this project, is the push from Chinese government where they want to connect down into southeast asia using their existing high speed rail network. Actually this is one of the first thing that spark the interest in this HSR project when it was introduced in last couple of goverments. And then the government start to look at other feasibility of the project regarding to local economy and etc. The final picture of this project is the line which completely link down from china to thailand - burma - vietname - laos - malaysia and singapore. It's very ambitious goal I can tell. But here we start it first from thailand where our local economy is roughly big enough to support such system.

Operation cost will be high. Service cost will be low (compare to the developed nations). The rough ticket price is already shown from the study which is expected to be lower than low-cost airline. The potential number of customers has been included and calculate into the feasibility and amount of the money which the government have to subsidize. All possible indirect investment returned including local economy boost, the reduction in oil consumption and transportation time, the reduction in accient lost, etc, has been included in the study. So yes, we don't just give it a go just for the sake of having HSR in the country. That is stupid.

FYI, the investment money will be from domestic loan 50% and yearly transporation budget 50%. Spread across 7 years. The project is not only focus to HSR. But also the upgrade to existing rail track, road network and urban metro line in bangkok. The HSR will take around 40% of the chunk. So if someone think this is already too much money. Look at the rest. 

Nobody can say this will absolutely work. It is the risk we take. But by proper study and preparation. Hopefully it will be a success story like what happened to China. The infrastructure investment scene in asia is a very hot topic rightnow. So you might seems surprise and doubt why these countries care so much about this type of project which seems to be frozen in europe rightnow. I'm living in UK and the new London - Burminham link will take 25 years to finish. Compare that and you will see the different. Or maybe look at Laos HSR project which will take 140% of their year GDP to build. That's a lot lot more crazy I can tell.


----------



## hans280

tonii said:


> Operation cost will be high. Service cost will be low (compare to the developed nations). The rough ticket price is already shown from the study which is expected to be lower than low-cost airline. The potential number of customers has been included and calculate into the feasibility and amount of the money which the government have to subsidize. All possible indirect investment returned including local economy boost, the reduction in oil consumption and transportation time, the reduction in accient lost, etc, has been included in the study. So yes, we don't just give it a go just for the sake of having HSR in the country. That is stupid.


As an economist I have quite a bit of sympathy for this line of argument. Too often, the debate about public investment breaks down between two groups of "fundamentalists": one who argues that if the users of a given train line cannot cover the full costs through ticketing then therefore the investment is a wasteful squandering of taxpayers' money (often heard in the UK press); one who argues that this train line will produce big, tangible benefits to society at large (i.e. beyond the users of the trains) and therefore it must be a good idea (often heard in the French press). 

A more balanced argument must - in my view - evolve around the following question: what benefits will the non-train using society benefit from the investment, and how much should policy makers be willing to pay for these benefits? Failing to address this issue properly can result in money being squandered (sometimes the case in France, Spain and China) or opportunities being squandered (frequently the case in the UK).


----------



## Baron Hirsch

Sunfuns said:


> As for Thai economy, I was roughly familiar with the situation already. It's much better than in neighbouring Laos or Myanmar, nevertheless among countries having, currently building or seriously contemplating HSR only Morocco has lover GDP per capita.


Wait a minute, please get your facts right. These are the 2012 IMF figures for some HSR countries: 

Germany 39,028 USD/capita/annum
Spain 30,557 
Russia 17,709
Turkey 15,001 
Thailand 10,126 
China 9,162 
Morocco 5,265 

As we all know, this in no way reflects their investment into HSR. Just like Hans says, building HSR is very much a political decision, not one dictated by economic circumstances.


----------



## hans280

Baron Hirsch said:


> Wait a minute, please get your facts right. These are the 2012 IMF figures for some HSR countries:
> 
> Germany 39,028 USD/capita/annum
> Spain 30,557
> Russia 17,709
> Turkey 15,001
> Thailand 10,126
> China 9,162
> Morocco 5,265
> 
> As we all know, this in no way reflects their investment into HSR. Just like Hans says, building HSR is very much a political decision, not one dictated by economic circumstances.


The Baron implicitly points to a slight inaccuracy in my argument: my point about a "dominant middle class" as a precondition for HSR is, of course, based on a medium-sized European (or other) economy. Here as in so many other cases China is a law unto itself. If there's 1.3 billion people, and 10 per cent of those people have money, then.... :lol:


----------



## tonii

hans280 said:


> As an economist I have quite a bit of sympathy for this line of argument. Too often, the debate about public investment breaks down between two groups of "fundamentalists": one who argues that if the users of a given train line cannot cover the full costs through ticketing then therefore the investment is a wasteful squandering of taxpayers' money (often heard in the UK press); one who argues that this train line will produce big, tangible benefits to society at large (i.e. beyond the users of the trains) and therefore it must be a good idea (often heard in the French press).
> 
> A more balanced argument must - in my view - evolve around the following question: what benefits will the non-train using society benefit from the investment, and how much should policy makers be willing to pay for these benefits? Failing to address this issue properly can result in money being squandered (sometimes the case in France, Spain and China) or opportunities being squandered (frequently the case in the UK).


Well yes. Because if you take the profit from running the service only when consider such project. You will never have it. As far as I know all HSR service in east asia including japan, china, taiwan and south korea made a loss on the first couple of years. Even until now some lines still doesnt make a profit on its own. So the indirect investment return must be heavily included when they study it. Just like what you said. I dont have all information for you regarding to the government study. But as far as I can tell they look and follow very closely to the japanese model where land investment and other factor are included. 

Thailand doesnt have the economy of scale like China. So its a bit risky. The reason the government rush this project to happen now is due to a very high domestic liquidity. And the currency is very strong. If we do it 10-20 years later it would be a much much more expensive. Considering the economy status. It seems this is the best time if we are going to do it. If one thing Im not sure if it is the same as other countries is the rail track investment which they say it will not be counted as the cost to the project. Due to the reason of making HSR to be more feasible to build. And they want to see it as the investment for the whole country future. Just like building road where you dont take it as a cost as well. So the whole cost will be on the system, train and technology only. You as an economist could tell me if that thing is called stupidity or vision. I dont know.


----------



## Sunfuns

melrocks50 said:


> He's not comparing it to Laos or Myanmar, he's simply saying that Thailand is more developed. Still, don't get mad when people say Thailand is far from a high income economy because it is true. Also, based on the design, I'm a bit skeptical SRT will be able to manage and maintain all those large futuristic stations and facilities, because based on the dirty ugly current stations that are in use, I seriously doubt they can manage these stations, but that's just me. If they can, then kudos! Thailand's train system will finally be vastly upgraded!





tonii said:


> Nah. I didnt get mad. I dont even live in the country anymore. But saying it is far from high income is different from it is poor income, dont you think. He had the judgement on the country which he is not familiar with. You tell me that is a fair post? Thailand is high middle income economy and rank 20th for total GDP. The total budget to build high speed rail is roughly 7% of yearly GDP. Tell me if that economy cannot support the project ? He didnt even accept that he was wrong but change the point to that he was not familiar with the country. Come on...


Do we really need to get so touchy about it? I clearly stated that Thailand is better off than Myanmar or Laos. Did absolutely have to add "much, much better"?

It's a valid discussion regarding the money and how affordable it will be for the inhabitants. In Morocco, another middle income (low income?) country building HSR, there is/was a lot of opposition to the project on exactly these grounds.


----------



## Sunfuns

hans280 said:


> Yes, but there's a wider range of issues here. One of them is, who shall ultimately pay for the construction costs - in particular, how much does the government plan to subsidise. This is closely linked to the question of levels of economic development. *In France (where I live), the TGVs are sometimes nicknamed "millionaire trains" because virtually no low-income individuals, and no families with children, can/will pay the ticket prices.* Yet the ticket prices are no higher than what SNCF must necessarily demand in order to recoup the construction costs.


I think this is a bit of a straw man argument. TGV's are for medium long distance travel and low income individuals simply don't travel much regardless of mode of transportation. And of course for 3-4+ people a car will be cheaper no matter what.


----------



## hmmwv

Baron Hirsch said:


> Wait a minute, please get your facts right. These are the 2012 IMF figures for some HSR countries:
> 
> Germany 39,028 USD/capita/annum
> Spain 30,557
> Russia 17,709
> Turkey 15,001
> Thailand 10,126
> China 9,162
> Morocco 5,265
> 
> As we all know, this in no way reflects their investment into HSR. Just like Hans says, building HSR is very much a political decision, not one dictated by economic circumstances.


I think Thailand is perfectly capable of building a HSR system, and has good reasons to do so, especially considering it'll help tourism as well. But are those figures you provided adjusted to PPP? I'm asking because according to IMF Thailand's GDP per capita is $5,678. http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft...82,544,474,941,754,446,698&s=NGDPDPC&grp=0&a=


----------



## Sunfuns

Baron Hirsch said:


> Wait a minute, please get your facts right. These are the 2012 IMF figures for some HSR countries:
> 
> Germany 39,028 USD/capita/annum
> Spain 30,557
> Russia 17,709
> Turkey 15,001
> Thailand 10,126
> China 9,162
> Morocco 5,265
> 
> As we all know, this in no way reflects their investment into HSR. Just like Hans says, building HSR is very much a political decision, not one dictated by economic circumstances.


Other sources report China's GDP per capita having surpassed Thailand's in 2011. But anyway that is not the point. I was jut raising the point about finances and wondering how real all those plans are in a not particularly rich country. And by the way I'm not against it. I think there will be plenty of users particularly considering how popular the country is with tourists.

Now we've got a real discussion albeit a bit heated :lol:


----------



## tonii

hmmwv said:


> I think Thailand is perfectly capable of building a HSR system, and has good reasons to do so, especially considering it'll help tourism as well. But are those figures you provided adjusted to PPP? I'm asking because according to IMF Thailand's GDP per capita is $5,678. http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2013/01/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=41&pr.y=9&sy=2012&ey=2012&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=512%2C666%2C914%2C668%2C612%2C672%2C614%2C946%2C311%2C137%2C213%2C962%2C911%2C674%2C193%2C676%2C122%2C548%2C912%2C556%2C313%2C678%2C419%2C181%2C513%2C867%2C316%2C682%2C913%2C684%2C124%2C273%2C339%2C868%2C638%2C921%2C514%2C948%2C218%2C943%2C963%2C686%2C616%2C688%2C223%2C518%2C516%2C728%2C918%2C558%2C748%2C138%2C618%2C196%2C522%2C278%2C622%2C692%2C156%2C694%2C624%2C142%2C626%2C449%2C628%2C564%2C228%2C283%2C924%2C853%2C233%2C288%2C632%2C293%2C636%2C566%2C634%2C964%2C238%2C182%2C662%2C453%2C960%2C968%2C423%2C922%2C935%2C714%2C128%2C862%2C611%2C135%2C321%2C716%2C243%2C456%2C248%2C722%2C469%2C942%2C253%2C718%2C642%2C724%2C643%2C576%2C939%2C936%2C644%2C961%2C819%2C813%2C172%2C199%2C132%2C733%2C646%2C184%2C648%2C524%2C915%2C361%2C134%2C362%2C652%2C364%2C174%2C732%2C328%2C366%2C258%2C734%2C656%2C144%2C654%2C146%2C336%2C463%2C263%2C528%2C268%2C923%2C532%2C738%2C944%2C578%2C176%2C537%2C534%2C742%2C536%2C866%2C429%2C369%2C433%2C744%2C178%2C186%2C436%2C925%2C136%2C869%2C343%2C746%2C158%2C926%2C439%2C466%2C916%2C112%2C664%2C111%2C826%2C298%2C542%2C927%2C967%2C846%2C443%2C299%2C917%2C582%2C544%2C474%2C941%2C754%2C446%2C698&s=NGDPDPC&grp=0&a=


I think all of those numbers are PPP adjusted.


----------



## tonii

Baron Hirsch said:


> Wait a minute, please get your facts right. These are the 2012 IMF figures for some HSR countries:
> 
> Germany 39,028 USD/capita/annum
> Spain 30,557
> Russia 17,709
> Turkey 15,001
> Thailand 10,126
> China 9,162
> Morocco 5,265
> 
> As we all know, this in no way reflects their investment into HSR. Just like Hans says, building HSR is very much a political decision, not one dictated by economic circumstances.


This is a very interesting point. I doubt the politician will gain much from pushing such project where it only affect the middle class up. Considering the current financial status of thai population. As much as everybody said in this thread. This project has a very high risk. The government would want to use those money in the populism project rather than HSR. 

Maybe you could elaborate more?


----------



## Sunfuns

HSR could be a kind of populism as well. It can and sometimes is sold as a sign that the country is now technologically advanced and can afford something truly world class.


----------



## tonii

Sunfuns said:


> HSR could be a kind of populism as well. It can and sometimes is sold as a sign that the country is now technologically advanced and can afford something truly world class.


Well, that's kind of true. But I have to give you a bit of the background of the current government which its majority of the vote came from lower class people. Compare to the opposition party where majority of their votes came from middle class. So to make it populism policy, I doubt HSR is one of them.

I don't deny that the there is politic reason for every project that is pushed by the government. But this government is very well known for their economy stimulus policy. Bangkok 10 lines of urban metro system was also part of their policy. The new international airport was also part of their policy. And now the HSR and overall transportation infrastructure upgrade is also their current policy. I see more reason for them to push this from economy point of view rather than gaining political popularity from their main vote which doesn't get direct benefit from all of these. (well the freight transport will help, but still , it's more of the benefit to middle class rather than the lower class).


----------



## hans280

tonii said:


> This is a very interesting point. I doubt the politician will gain much from pushing such project where it only affect the middle class up. Considering the current financial status of thai population. As much as everybody said in this thread. This project has a very high risk. The government would want to use those money in the populism project rather than HSR.
> 
> Maybe you could elaborate more?


Tonii, we have certainly had that argument here "on the continent". People wonder why the interior design of the TGV trains (even on first class) is so crummy. The truth is, the socialist government of Mitterand made a express decision to go for a spartan look in order to "democratiser la vitesse". They knew full-well that they were creating something for the better-off and wanted to avoid a PR disaster. The Spanish RENFE have done the exact opposite. Their AVE trains on main lines such as Madrid-Barcelona are billed as a replacement for airlines and they charge exactly the same (high!) prices that were previously paid for air tickets. The implicit message is: if you're the kind of person who wouldn't use domestic flights, then this train is not for you.


----------



## Baron Hirsch

Sunfuns said:


> HSR could be a kind of populism as well. It can and sometimes is sold as a sign that the country is now technologically advanced and can afford something truly world class.


This is definitely the case here in Turkey, where the ruling party AKP in part resembles the Thai Rak Thai Party (only that they jailed the old establishment, not the other way around). Populism and a strong belief in 1960s style modernization (highways, nuclear power plants, giant airports, hydroelectric dams) are part of their repertoire. While they are very neoliberal in policy, they strangely have been very statist in their policy towards the railway, investing incredible amounts into the HSR network, which is still short at the moment but will connect several major cities by the end of the decade. High-speed train fares are around the same as the much slower intercity buses, which bus companies have attacked as they see it as an unfair subsidy and ruinous to their business. It must be a highly deficitary business, but the high-speed trains are being pushed as a traffic system very normal people can afford. The fares are definitely the lowest in Europe.


----------



## Restless

hans280 said:


> Tonii, we have certainly had that argument here "on the continent". People wonder why the interior design of the TGV trains (even on first class) is so crummy. The truth is, the socialist government of Mitterand made a express decision to go for a spartan look in order to "democratiser la vitesse". They knew full-well that they were creating something for the better-off and wanted to avoid a PR disaster. The Spanish RENFE have done the exact opposite. Their AVE trains on main lines such as Madrid-Barcelona are billed as a replacement for airlines and they charge exactly the same (high!) prices that were previously paid for air tickets. The implicit message is: if you're the kind of person who wouldn't use domestic flights, then this train is not for you.


Doesn't Barcelona-Madrid only run 17 trains per day, compared with a capacity of 150 trains per day?

And I suspect that the other HSR lines that RENFE are still building won't produce enough profit + other economic benefits to justify the cost of construction in the first place.

Think of bridges to nowhere - where it might be cheaper to let the bridge collapse rather than continue to maintain it for a few luxury vehicles.


----------



## Sunfuns

Restless said:


> Doesn't Barcelona-Madrid only run 17 trains per day, compared with a capacity of 150 trains per day?


That's a very theoretical maximum... How many trains do you think should be run there? That's exactly the same number of trains as runs between much bigger Paris and London. On both routes the majority takes the train instead of flying. 

If you are looking for routes where 50 trains a day would make sense then you would never build anything anywhere in Europe.


----------



## Restless

Sunfuns said:


> That's a very theoretical maximum... How many trains do you think should be run there? That's exactly the same number of trains as runs between much bigger Paris and London. On both routes the majority takes the train instead of flying.
> 
> If you are looking for routes where 50 trains a day would make sense then you would never build anything anywhere in Europe.


Let me make it real-life then.

On the Tokyo-Osaka line (515km) - looks like there are 142 trains per day
Beijing-Tianjin (115km) 60+ trains per day so far
Beijing-Shanghai (1368km) 90+ trains per day so far
London Euston to the North - looks like 100+ trains per day on the 220km/h service

These are the sorts of frequencies that are needed in order to make a high-speed train service worth building. But in order to do so, you need mass-market passenger traffic to do so, not just premium passengers. Then the resulting rise in property values around the stations could pay for all the construction costs

Does the Madrid-Barcelona line pay for itself and create enough economic benefit elsewhere to justify the investment?

===

And if we look to the Eurostar, they were expecting to run over 80 trains per day back in 2004.
But today there are only 27 eurostar trains from London and it has been a financial mess.

Generally international routes have a lot less traffic than domestic ones as well.


----------



## Restless

Baron Hirsch said:


> This is definitely the case here in Turkey, where the ruling party AKP in part resembles the Thai Rak Thai Party (only that they jailed the old establishment, not the other way around). Populism and a strong belief in 1960s style modernization (highways, nuclear power plants, giant airports, hydroelectric dams) are part of their repertoire. While they are very neoliberal in policy, they strangely have been very statist in their policy towards the railway, investing incredible amounts into the HSR network, which is still short at the moment but will connect several major cities by the end of the decade. High-speed train fares are around the same as the much slower intercity buses, which bus companies have attacked as they see it as an unfair subsidy and ruinous to their business. It must be a highly deficitary business, but the high-speed trains are being pushed as a traffic system very normal people can afford. The fares are definitely the lowest in Europe.


Mass passenger traffic is pretty much the only way a new rail line can ever hope to pay for itself.

There is a huge upfront investment cost to building a railway and a much smaller operating cost. So normally a railway ends up with a modest operating profit, but it's not enough to pay off the cost of construction.

Now, the interesting part is when you can push a lot of foot traffic through a train station. Then property values in the immediate area can increase dramatically with the number of shops and apartments built.
Eg. A 500 unit apartment block could create a profit of $100000 per apartment. So 20 apartment blocks around a station could be worth a cool $1billion


----------



## Sopomon

Restless said:


> And if we look to the Eurostar, they were expecting to run over 80 trains per day back in 2004.
> But today there are only 27 eurostar trains from London and it has been a financial mess.
> 
> Generally international routes have a lot less traffic than domestic ones as well.



Eurostar is a profitable company, I believe.


----------



## Sunfuns

Restless said:


> Let me make it real-life then.
> 
> On the Tokyo-Osaka line (515km) - looks like there are 142 trains per day
> Beijing-Tianjin (115km) 60+ trains per day so far
> Beijing-Shanghai (1368km) 90+ trains per day so far
> London Euston to the North - looks like 100+ trains per day on the 220km/h service
> 
> These are the sorts of frequencies that are needed in order to make a high-speed train service worth building. But in order to do so, you need mass-market passenger traffic to do so, not just premium passengers. Then the resulting rise in property values around the stations could pay for all the construction costs
> 
> Does the Madrid-Barcelona line pay for itself and create enough economic benefit elsewhere to justify the investment?
> 
> ===
> 
> And if we look to the Eurostar, they were expecting to run over 80 trains per day back in 2004.
> But today there are only 27 eurostar trains from London and it has been a financial mess.
> 
> Generally international routes have a lot less traffic than domestic ones as well.


For 90% of European routes Chinese or Japanese frequencies is an impossible fantasy. There simply aren't that many passengers who would want to travel those routes regardless of price. Maybe with Indian prices, but who would support such enormous subsidies? And remember Japanese trains are just as expensive as European ones and so are Chinese when compared with average local incomes. 

I'm sure Barcelona-Madrid more than pays for it's operating costs and basic infrastructure maintenance. Most high speed services do. Not certain about Renfe, but Deutsche Bahn and SNCF definitely make profits from those.


----------



## Restless

Sopomon said:


> Eurostar is a profitable company, I believe.


After most of their debts were "restructured"


----------



## Sunfuns

And having said all that there could be few more trains on the aforementioned line in Spain. Perhaps there will be when a competing company will be allowed to operate on the line in few years time. There will never be 90 or 140, though.


----------



## Restless

Sunfuns said:


> For 90% of European routes Chinese or Japanese frequencies is an impossible fantasy. There simply aren't that many passengers who would want to travel those routes regardless of price. Maybe with Indian prices, but who would support such enormous subsidies? And remember Japanese trains are just as expensive as European ones and so are Chinese when compared with average local incomes.
> 
> I'm sure Barcelona-Madrid more than pays for it's operating costs and basic infrastructure maintenance. Most high speed services do. Not certain about Renfe, but Deutsche Bahn and SNCF definitely make profits from those.


Yes, 90% of routes in Europe simply don't have the traffic to ever run at East Asian traffic levels, even at Indian prices.
Japanese prices are very high, but I think that's more to do with Japan and the extremely high service levels they have, and the fact that they have a captive market with little competition from planes or cars.

And when I look at Beijing-Shanghai versus Madrid-Barcelona I see

*Madrid-Barcelona*
$57000 GDP per person
$222 for a 621km journey

*Beijing-Shanghai*
$13000 GDP per person
$90 for a 1368km journey (the equivalent of $41 for 621km)

So you can see that Beijing-Shanghai is more affordable than Madrid-Barcelona, even accounting for the GDP differential.

And this ignores the fact that incomes in China are still rising by 15%-20% per year, whilst rail fares are almost fixed.


----------



## Sunfuns

You are exaggerating Spanish prices, they have been lowered recently. 150 euros return tickets are easy to obtain, if bought few weeks in advance 100 euros are possible as well.

Spanish HSR is not the most expensive in Europe any more. I believe that honour now goes to Deutsche Bahn.


----------



## OriK

Restless said:


> Does the Madrid-Barcelona line pay for itself and create enough economic benefit elsewhere to justify the investment?


If I remember correctly, the Madrid-Barcelona HS services have an economic return of ~130%

That means thaf for each invested euro... Renfe gets 1'30€ that surplus is used to compensate the deficit on some newer HS lines that have a return of ~90%

Globaly, the HS network in Spain is profitable.


----------



## Restless

Sunfuns said:


> You are exaggerating Spanish prices, they have been lowered recently. 150 euros return tickets are easy to obtain, if bought few weeks in advance 100 euros are possible as well.
> 
> Spanish HSR is not the most expensive in Europe any more. I believe that honour now goes to Deutsche Bahn.


ok, if a single ticket is 75euro that is USD$100, then your previous assertion about relative affordability is valid.
It'll probably be true for the next 5 years, as wages in China will probably be double what they are today.

But it just highlights the point I was trying to make earlier. If you have a high-speed railway, the best way to run it is to lower prices and get as many passengers as you can.


----------



## Restless

OriK said:


> If I remember correctly, the Madrid-Barcelona HS services have an economic return of ~130%
> 
> That means thaf for each invested euro... Renfe gets 1'30€ that surplus is used to compensate the deficit on some newer HS lines that have a return of ~90%
> 
> Globaly, the HS network in Spain is profitable.


Just to clarify, is that definition of economic return composed of:
operating profit - depreciation/interest + wider benefits to the economy

===

So for the newer lines with less benefit than what they cost, would you agree that they should never have been built in the first place?

And should rail services like the one below even have been started? How did they get the traffic estimates so wrong, given they already had the data on existing passengers?

*Spain cuts high speed 'ghost train'*
Spain's state-controlled rail operator has been forced to axe one of its newest high speed train services after it emerged that the only nine passengers were using it each day.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...603392/Spain-cuts-high-speed-ghost-train.html


----------



## OriK

^^ What do you mean by depreciation/interest... Renfe just gets more money that the amount they expend...

All lines start being unprofitable... and the link you mentioned is completely tendencious, that line was an experiment over existing infraestructure (no waste in infraestructure!) and they got 9 passengers MORE than when a transfer was required, so they cancelled the direct link and now transfer is compulsory again...


----------



## napoleon

Hitachi eyes train project

The Nation May 9, 2013 1:00 am

Hiroaki Nakanishi, chairman of Hitachi, yesterday held talks with Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra at Government House on the company's interest in participating in development of operating systems for the high-speed-rail project.

Nakanishi said Hitachi had invested continuously in the Kingdom, the company's production hub in the region. Yingluck thanked the chairman for Hitachi's commitment and confidence in Thailand and expressed her wish for an extension of coordination between the two countries. Japanese firms such as Hitachi are welcome to take part in Thailand's infrastructure project, which requires a huge investment of more than US$67 billion (Bt2 trillion), she said. Hitachi is a diversified company and has 11 business segments, including IT systems, electrical systems, social and industrial systems, automotive systems, electronic-component devices, and construction and financial services.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Hitachi-eyes-train-project-30205720.html


----------



## Restless

OriK said:


> ^^ What do you mean by depreciation/interest... Renfe just gets more money that the amount they expend...
> 
> All lines start being unprofitable... and the link you mentioned is completely tendencious, that line was an experiment over existing infraestructure (no waste in infraestructure!) and they got 9 passengers MORE than when a transfer was required, so they cancelled the direct link and now transfer is compulsory again...


9 extra passengers at an additional 18000euro of operating cost.

For 18000euro, they must have been expecting at least 200 passengers to make it worthwhile. That is a huge margin of error, given they already had the data to model this.

===
Doesn't RENFE account for interest/depreciation/debt repayments? For a railway line, this is normally larger than the actual operating costs.

I'll give you a recent example with this.

*Beijing-Tianjin 350km/h HSR*
Length: 115km
Construction Cost: 20.42 billion RMB (about US$ 3.4billion)

Interest on the construction debt: 0.6 billion RMB per year
Construction Depreciation over 20years: 20.42 / 20years = 1 billion RMB per year

===

*1st year of operation in 2008*
Revenue: 1.1 billion RMB

Total Cost: 2.8 billion RMB
-Operating Cost: 1.2 billion RMB
-Interest Cost: 0.6 billion RMB
-Depreciation: 1 billion RMB

===

It's taken from 2008 to 2012 for revenue to match cash going out.

But to do this, they're running large trains with a capacity of 1000 passengers every 15minutes, so that's 60+ trains per day.

These construction, operating and interest costs are low by HSR standards. 

Plus revenue will likely double within 10years whilst total costs won't increase much. So it will probably be judged a phenomenal success because it will be carrying 50million people a year and will be really profitable.

NB. If you ever look at the project appraisals for Eurotunnel or Eurostar, they are truly awful by any standard. The Anglo-French consortium treated the project as a cash cow to be overbilled at will, which left huge upfront debts that could never hope to be repaid by Eurotunnel/Eurostar.


----------



## Sopomon

"Plus revenue will likely double within 10years whilst total costs won't increase much. So it will probably be judged a phenomenal success because it will be carrying 50million people a year and will be really profitable."

That's the most amazing amount of projection that I've come across in a long while. 

BACK TO THAILAND...


----------



## Sunfuns

That service with 9 extra passengers was obviously a miscalculation and was dropped in short order. Do note however, that there was no extra infrastructure spending on the line or rolling stock to provide it. 

All Spanish lines are capable of providing an operating profit which accounts for salaries, rolling stock, track access charges (to Adif) and depreciation. What is not included is the capital costs of construction of the line. Those can not be repaid by the railway alone and I doubt there was ever an expectation of that happening.


----------



## Sunfuns

But yes, let's go back to Thailand


----------



## Restless

Sopomon said:


> "Plus revenue will likely double within 10years whilst total costs won't increase much. So it will probably be judged a phenomenal success because it will be carrying 50million people a year and will be really profitable."
> 
> That's the most amazing amount of projection that I've come across in a long while.
> 
> BACK TO THAILAND...


That is a conservative estimate by the way, given the railway has already been built and is running today.

In 5-7years, incomes in China will probably be double what they are today, because of widespead labour shortages which will only get worse from now.

That will vastly increase the number of travelers from the 25milliion we see today. And we're talking about Beijing (13million) and Tianjin (6million) only being 30minutes from each other. That's daily commuting distance.

So 50million is reasonable, given population growth in those cities and increased incomes.

Then you can see that the interest and depreciation are FIXED and account for most of the total cost. So total costs do not scale directly with the number of people. Experience from other HSR networks shows a modest increase in total costs with every doubling of passengers.

So you can see that revenue will scale upwards directly based on the number of people whilst costs don't rise as much. Plus it ignores the fact that a richer population has the ability to pay higher ticket prices, but we're not going down that road today.

===
NB. Every infrastructure project like this has a 20-30year projection. Have a look at the World Bank or Asian Development Bank to see some examples.


----------



## Restless

Sunfuns said:


> That service with 9 extra passengers was obviously a miscalculation and was dropped in short order. Do not however, that there was no extra infrastructure spending on the line or rolling stock to provide it.
> 
> All Spanish lines are capable of providing an operating profit which accounts for salaries, rolling stock, track access charges (to Adif) and depreciation. What is not included is the capital costs of construction of the line. Those can not be repaid by the railway alone and I doubt there was ever an expectation of that ever happening.


That makes sense.

But the capital construction costs should be accounted for in some way, and there has to be enough social/economic benefits elsewhere.

Otherwise why add this to the debt issued by the Spanish government, which is now threatening to bankrupt the country?


----------



## Restless

Sunfuns said:


> It's all good then, looking forward to see pictures of actual construction soon.
> 
> As for Thai economy, I was roughly familiar with the situation already. It's much better than in neighbouring Laos or Myanmar, nevertheless among countries having, currently building or seriously contemplating HSR only Morocco has lover GDP per capita.


China is currently at the same wealth level with Thailand.

And the Guangzhou-Guiyang mixed passenger and freight railway is roughly comparable to what Thailand is looking for.

There are loads of project reports from the world bank below, which tell you almost everything you would want to know. I'd be surprised if the Thai government hasn't already studied this in depth, and used some of it as the basis for their requirements.
http://www.worldbank.org/projects/P107559/guiyang-guangzhou-railway?lang=en


----------



## Codename B

napoleon said:


> Siemens targets big projects
> 
> Published: 7 May 2013
> 
> Munich-based Siemens, an industrial bellwether that makes products ranging from fast trains and gas turbines to hearing aids, foresees flourishing prospects for its Thai operations particularly in line with the government's planned 2-trillion-baht infrastructure projects.
> 
> Siemens is interested in a joint development with the government in the mass transit system and, thanks to a variety of technologies, it is well equipped for any joint investments, said Roland Busch, chief executive of Siemens' infrastructure and cities sector.
> 
> "[Apart from Thailand], there are several countries where we are interested to invest, including Singapore, where the company is already involved in some infrastructure investments," he said.
> 
> "Siemens is also exploring an investment opportunity in Vietnam, where there is anticipated rapid city expansion, particularly in Ho Chi Minh City."
> 
> In the German train giant's first foray into local manufacturing, Siemens last year agreed to set up a 50-50 joint venture with Cho Thavee Dollasien Co (CTV-Doll), a Khon Kaen company, to assemble passenger coaches in Thailand.
> 
> CTV-Doll will be responsible for manufacturing, assembling and maintenance of the coaches; detailed engineering and assembling of the interiors using local materials whenever possible; and manufacturing complete car body shells including painting.
> 
> Siemens will complete the coach designs, provide technical assistance and supply complete bogies and other major components from Vienna.
> 
> Mr Busch said Siemens's main focus is to introduce more clean technologies as part of the effort to protect the environment and cope with climate change.
> 
> He said cities have been expanding rapidly around the world. The question is how can Siemens take care of health and quality of life while maintaining economic growth, he said.
> 
> With demand for energy also rising, Siemens must use energy more efficiently, invest wisely, have high-quality industries and use technologies that benefit health, Mr Busch said.
> 
> Siemens is offering a leadership award to those who have distinguished roles.
> 
> http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/news/348734/siemens-targets-big-projects


..


----------



## Sunfuns

Restless said:


> China is currently at the same wealth level with Thailand.
> 
> And the Guangzhou-Guiyang mixed passenger and freight railway is roughly comparable to what Thailand is looking for.
> 
> There are loads of project reports from the world bank below, which tell you almost everything you would want to know. I'd be surprised if the Thai government hasn't already studied this in depth, and used some of it as the basis for their requirements.
> http://www.worldbank.org/projects/P107559/guiyang-guangzhou-railway?lang=en


Yes, but what I was questioning initially is not whether the system would be useful but whether the government has enough money to build it in the first place. It's not the same. 

China is already moving rapidly into higher level economy investing a lot in education and research, can't say the same about Thailand. I'd be surprised if the former is not well ahead of the latter in terms of GDP in another decade. 

Anecdotal evidence: I work in a scientific research and every year there are more and more top level publications from China in my field (#2 in Asia now). Japan is the world leader only behind US, South Korea is doing ok but not as well as one would expect given the size of their economy, same goes for Taiwan, something semi-serious has started to emerge from India (mostly still copy-cat), few strong spots in Singapore as well. The contribution of the rest of Asia has been very close to zero so far...


----------



## Restless

Sunfuns said:


> Yes, but what I was questioning initially is not whether the system would be useful but whether the government has enough money to build it in the first place. It's not the same.
> 
> China is already moving rapidly into higher level economy investing a lot in education and research, can't say the same about Thailand. I'd be surprised if the former is not well ahead of the latter in terms of GDP in another decade.
> 
> Anecdotal evidence: I work in a scientific research and every year there are more and more top level publications from China in my field (#2 in Asia now). Japan is the world leader only behind US, South Korea is doing ok but not as well as one would expect given the size of their economy, same goes for Taiwan, something semi-serious has started to emerge from India (mostly still copy-cat), few strong spots in Singapore as well. The contribution of the rest of Asia has been very close to zero so far...


There's a sortable ranking on Wikipedia on R&D spending, and you can see how Thailand is only spending 0.25% which is really low.

Then there's China and much of Europe at the 2.0% mark.

So I agree that Thailand won't grow as fast as China, but they will still be subject to the same growing pains in transportation and urbanisation, just a little later.

But China's growth is now spilling over into SE Asia in a big way, and will lift everyone them up as well.


----------



## Sunfuns

Restless said:


> But the capital construction costs should be accounted for in some way, and there has to be enough social/economic benefits elsewhere.
> 
> Otherwise why add this to the debt issued by the Spanish government, which is now threatening to bankrupt the country?


Those projects were started in a different economic climate with high growth and record low unemployment. At the time it seemed that income from other areas will easily afford enough money to pay for massive infrastructure upgrades (highways as well, not just HSR). Now they are just trying to finish (and not even all of it) what was started during the good times and where a lot of money has been spent already. It makes sense to do so even if at slower pace. It will be easier to make a profit with rail once the economic climate improves again and the new lines will probably be in use longer than any of us here are alive.


----------



## OriK

Restless said:


> 9 extra passengers at an additional 18000euro of operating cost.
> 
> For 18000euro, they must have been expecting at least 200 passengers to make it worthwhile. That is a huge margin of error, given they already had the data to model this.
> 
> ===
> Doesn't RENFE account for interest/depreciation/debt repayments? For a railway line, this is normally larger than the actual operating costs.
> 
> I'll give you a recent example with this.
> 
> *Beijing-Tianjin 350km/h HSR*
> Length: 115km
> Construction Cost: 20.42 billion RMB (about US$ 3.4billion)
> 
> Interest on the construction debt: 0.6 billion RMB per year
> Construction Depreciation over 20years: 20.42 / 20years = 1 billion RMB per year
> 
> ===
> 
> *1st year of operation in 2008*
> Revenue: 1.1 billion RMB
> 
> Total Cost: 2.8 billion RMB
> -Operating Cost: 1.2 billion RMB
> -Interest Cost: 0.6 billion RMB
> -Depreciation: 1 billion RMB
> 
> ===
> 
> It's taken from 2008 to 2012 for revenue to match cash going out.
> 
> But to do this, they're running large trains with a capacity of 1000 passengers every 15minutes, so that's 60+ trains per day.
> 
> These construction, operating and interest costs are low by HSR standards.
> 
> Plus revenue will likely double within 10years whilst total costs won't increase much. So it will probably be judged a phenomenal success because it will be carrying 50million people a year and will be really profitable.
> 
> NB. If you ever look at the project appraisals for Eurotunnel or Eurostar, they are truly awful by any standard. The Anglo-French consortium treated the project as a cash cow to be overbilled at will, which left huge upfront debts that could never hope to be repaid by Eurotunnel/Eurostar.


This is getting really offtopic but anyway...

That service was a Toledo-Madrid-Cuenca-Albacete AVE train... previously (and currently) there was Madrid-Toledo and Madrid-Cuenca-Albacete services... as Toledo, Cuenca and Albacete are cities within the same region they tried this new service... without investing a single euro in infrastructure... what did they find out? ... that people was traveling Madrid-Toledo or Madrid-Cuenca/Albacete as previously and only 9~ persons per train were traveling beyond Madrid... so they split again the route as it didn't make sense... that doesn't mean that there was only 9 persons in the train, probably the number was over 200... but everybody was leaving/boarding at Madrid.

And no, RENFE doesn't account for interest/depreciation/debt (except for the trains, but it's included in the balance)... 1st of all, RENFE doesn't exist since 8 years ago when it was splitted in Renfe and Adif... since then, Renfe operates the railways (among other operators) and Adif manages the infrastructure (among other managers).

Renfe and the other operators pay a fee to Adif (or the owner of the infrastructure) to operate trains on that infrastructure.

The HS lines in Spain are built with an amortization period of 100 years (not 20) but it's a fact that Adif covers more than the HSL maintenance costs with Renfe's fees... anyway the best solution in Spain was making high speed lines as the initial studies indicated that an upgrade or a new conventional line has a similar construction cost (it's higher but not by far) and the operation wouldn't be profitable. Anyway, why people is always worrying about railways amortizations and never about highway amortizations? both of them have a huge indirect economic impact and a direct social impact.


----------



## ddes

Will Bangkok have another HSR station besides Bang Sue? I can't imagine coming out from Suvarnabhumi, and taking the Airport Link to Bang Sue just to go to Pattaya.


----------



## Codename B

The high speed line for Bangkok-Pattaya-Rayong line will have its own station, as it will be an extension of the Airport Rail Link.


----------



## Restless

OriK said:


> This is getting really offtopic but anyway...
> 
> That service was a Toledo-Madrid-Cuenca-Albacete AVE train... previously (and currently) there was Madrid-Toledo and Madrid-Cuenca-Albacete services... as Toledo, Cuenca and Albacete are cities within the same region they tried this new service... without investing a single euro in infrastructure... what did they find out? ... that people was traveling Madrid-Toledo or Madrid-Cuenca/Albacete as previously and only 9~ persons per train were traveling beyond Madrid... so they split again the route as it didn't make sense... that doesn't mean that there was only 9 persons in the train, probably the number was over 200... but everybody was leaving/boarding at Madrid.
> 
> And no, RENFE doesn't account for interest/depreciation/debt (except for the trains, but it's included in the balance)... 1st of all, RENFE doesn't exist since 8 years ago when it was splitted in Renfe and Adif... since then, Renfe operates the railways (among other operators) and Adif manages the infrastructure (among other managers).
> 
> Renfe and the other operators pay a fee to Adif (or the owner of the infrastructure) to operate trains on that infrastructure.
> 
> The HS lines in Spain are built with an amortization period of 100 years (not 20) but it's a fact that Adif covers more than the HSL maintenance costs with Renfe's fees... anyway the best solution in Spain was making high speed lines as the initial studies indicated that an upgrade or a new conventional line has a similar construction cost (it's higher but not by far) and the operation wouldn't be profitable. Anyway, why people is always worrying about railways amortizations and never about highway amortizations? both of them have a huge indirect economic impact and a direct social impact.


I'm thinking that 100years for amortisation seems like a long long time, since they have to rebuild and update the system after 30years.

And who does loans or mortgages for 100years? 30years seems to be the practical limit.

I think highways get away with amortization, because they usually end up running beyond their design capacity.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

Restless said:


> I'm thinking that 100years for amortisation seems like a long long time, since they have to rebuild and update the system after 30years.
> 
> And who does loans or mortgages for 100years? 30years seems to be the practical limit.


Ask it this way: what does it cost to rebuild and update a 30 year old railway on an existing right of way, compared to building a brand new railway through existing property?


----------



## Sunfuns

chornedsnorkack said:


> Ask it this way: what does it cost to rebuild and update a 30 year old railway on an existing right of way, compared to building a brand new railway through existing property?


Exactly. The main British railway lines built 150 years ago are mostly still in use. Well maintained railways last a lot longer than 30 years and of course so do highways. 30 year mortgage limitation is for completely different reasons.


----------



## Restless

chornedsnorkack said:


> Ask it this way: what does it cost to rebuild and update a 30 year old railway on an existing right of way, compared to building a brand new railway through existing property?


Who knows? It's 30 years in the future and will depend on inflation and what needs to be done and how.

The West Coast Main Line constructed in the previous century in the UK was recently upgraded (ie. rebuilt to handle 220km/h tilting trains). The project costs overran so that it would probably have been cheaper to build an entirely new one in the first place.

But 10years ago in one of the rounds of trunkline speedups in China, the old lines were upgraded to 200km/h for barely $1million per kilometre.


----------



## Restless

Sunfuns said:


> Exactly. The main British railway lines built 150 years ago are mostly still in use. Well maintained railways last a lot longer than 30 years and of course so do highways. 30 year mortgage limitation is for completely different reasons.


The signalling and electronics generally have to be replaced in one go, with lifespans of 30 years in mind.

HSR trains are normally built with 10years of operation in mind.


----------



## OriK

Restless said:


> The signalling and electronics generally have to be replaced in one go, with lifespans of 30 years in mind.
> 
> HSR trains are normally built with 10years of operation in mind.


10 years?

These trains have been running for 21 years...


----------



## tonii

ddes said:


> Will Bangkok have another HSR station besides Bang Sue? I can't imagine coming out from Suvarnabhumi, and taking the Airport Link to Bang Sue just to go to Pattaya.


Bangsue will be the main station for northern, north eastern and southern line. Makkasan (currently main station for airport rail link) will be used for the main station of eastern line. 

So going to Pattaya will used the existing link of ARL and expand from that. There is still no clear info whether you can go to Pattaya directly from the airport or you have to go back into the town first. I doubt it would be the former. Because the line HSR line from Bangsue terminal will pass through Don Mueang which will have its own HSR station as well. It should be the same case here. 

Airport Link will play a major role in the future where it expansion will go through Bangsue and then Don Mueang which will completely link 2 airports and 2 main HSR station together.


----------



## Restless

OriK said:


> 10 years?
> 
> These trains have been running for 21 years...


Most high speed lines in the world are being built with high intensity operation with as little as 3minutes between trains.

Therefore any train faults effectively shut down the entire line, and old trains are more likely to break down.

Now, AVE can get away with this, because there are only 1 or 2 trains per hour. Fewer trains means a lower likelihood of a breakdown occurring. And if the railway is bidirectional, then they can just shunt them onto the other track which has the spare capacity.

Eurotunnel have a nice little diagram explaining how it works, because they shut down sections for maintenance all the time.


----------



## Codename B

*High-speed railway routes changed*
Published: 22 Oct 2014 at 10.28
Newspaper section: Business
Writer: Chatrudee Theparat 

*The government on Tuesday made some changes to its high-speed development plan, adding a Bangkok-Rayong route and splitting the Nong Khai-Map Ta Phut route into two — Nong Khai-Nakhon Ratchasima and Nakhon Ratchasima-Bangkok-Map Ta Phut.* 

In July, the National Council for Peace and Order approved a 2.4-trillion-baht infrastructure plan through 2022 covering dual-track rail, electric trains, highways, waterways and airports.

Two high-speed rail routes costing a combined 741 billion baht would link Thailand with southern China.

The Nong Khai-Map Ta Phut route would cover 737 kilometres and cost 393 billion baht, while the Chiang Khong-Phachi route would be 655 km and cost 349 billion.

Construction was scheduled to last until 2021.

But the cabinet yesterday said the government now opted instead to build three routes of 1.435-metre standard gauge with speeds of up to 180 km/h.

They are Nong Khai-Nakhon Ratchasima (355 km), Nakhon Ratchasima-Bangkok-Map Ta Phut (512 km) and Bangkok-Rayong (193 km).

Chaiwat Thongkhamkhun, deputy director of the Office of Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning (OTP), said the new routes would first undergo feasibility and design studies.

These should take about a year to complete, he said.

Land expropriation is scheduled for 2016, while construction will start three or four years from now.

The cabinet also yesterday acknowledged an OTP proposal for an eight-year infrastructure development programme from 2015-22.

The Transport Ministry is now in the process of improving details of the government's 2.4-trillion-baht infrastructure development plan.

Mr Chaiwat said the first 68 billion baht was earmarked for investment under the government's infrastructure plan in the fiscal-2015 budget.

The cabinet yesterday stuck with the five-fold strategy covering railways, mass-transit development in Bangkok, land transport linking major production bases nationwide and in neighbouring countries, water transport and air transport, he said.

The urgent projects are aimed at improving connections within the country's transport network including gateways to border trade, major cities upcountry and Bangkok.

Mr Chaiwat said six dual-track rail routes with a total construction budget of 117 billion baht would be implemented first.

They are the Jira junction in Nakhon Ratchasima-Khon Kaen (185 km); Prachuap Khiri Khan-Chumphon (167 km); Map Kabao in Saraburi-Nakhon Ratchasima (132 km); Nakhon Pathom-Hua Hin (165 km); Lop Buri-Pak Nam Pho in Nakhon Sawan (148 km); and Hua Hin-Muang districts in Prachuap Khiri Khan (90 km).

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/news/438877/high-speed-railway-routes-changed


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## Codename B

*Summary of HSR northern line phase II: Phitsanulok - Chiang Mai*









*Route 3 orange lines is chosen*

The lines will go through six provinces and have 5 stations.

Sukhothai station
Satchanalai station
Lampang station
Lamphun station
Chiang Mai station

The cost will average 2 baht/km and cost 414 baht/trip, which will take 1 hour and 8 minutes.

OTP will present a report to the Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) and to the Office of Natural Resources and Environmental Policy and Planning (ONEP). To follow the procedure and present the results of the study to the Ministry of Transport.

*Phitsanulok - Chiang Mai*


----------



## Codename B

..


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## Codename B

China is interested in 3 HSR lines in the first phase, while Japan is interested in Bangkok-Chiang Mai route in the second phase.


















http://www.bangkokbiznews.com/home/.../616790/โครงการพัฒนารถไฟฟ้าทางคู่มาตรฐาน.html

------------------------------------------------------------------

*Prayut guarantees transparency of rail deal with China*
Petchanet Pratruangkrai The Nation
Beijing November 12, 2014 1:00 am

*CHINA HAS agreed to help Thailand build dual-track railway lines and medium-speed train projects via government-to-government deals, Prime Minister General Prayut Chan-o-cha said yesterday.*

The deal was reached when Prayut met with Chinese President Xi Jinping and Premier Li Keqiang on the sidelines of Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (Apec) summit in Beijing. 

The project was discussed in the context of the Beijing-sponsored land and maritime "Silk Road" to expand trade routes from China throughout the region and to Europe, he said. 

"Chinese leaders said Thailand and China should cooperate on the project to have regional physical links, since we already have the routes, so we just [need to] upgrade and improve them," Prayut told reporters.

"China agreed to cooperate and fully support the development of double 1.435-metre standard-gauge [rail lines] to complete the linkage between China and Asean."

Prayut said his government had plans to build many rail lines and China agreed to support the construction of routes from Bangkok to Nong Khai and from Bangkok to Map Ta Phut, as well as a sub-route from Kaeng Khoi to Map Ta Phut on the Eastern Seaboard.

Prayut guaranteed transparency of the project, saying it was a deal between the two governments without private-sector involvement. 

"Of course, many countries are interested in development of rail projects but in other routes, not this one. 

"We have to talk to them later," he said. 

"What we have to do for the rail system is to increase the length of the rail [lines] and speed of the trains. The single light rail [line], as used currently, must be upgraded to standard gauge and the speed should be 160km/h; for the high-speed trains - 250km/h - we need further study about its viability," he said. 

While in Beijing, Prayut also met executives of three Chinese private firms - C&G, China Northern Locomotive, and China Medical Equipment - to exchange views on investment in Thailand. 

The three Chinese conglomerates showed considerable interest, while the Thai prime minister said they must ensure fair benefits for Thais and environment protection.

He said he ordered Thai government agencies such as the Board of Investment to study rules, regulations and laws to facilitate investment by the Chinese firms, based on fair practice.

C&G - a leading waste-to-energy investor and operator in China - told Prayut the company wanted to set up a waste-processing plant in Thailand but it faced restrictions on investment capital. 

Initially, the firm wanted to invest Bt3 billion in setting up a plant in the Rojana Industrial Estate or Navanakorn Industrial Estate. However, Thailand has a law that restricts investment capital to Bt2 billion.

Prayut said his regime was amending investment-related law for joint-venture firms, so the Chinese firm could wait for the law to be amended soon. He also called for C&G to consider carefully the health of people and environmental impact on nearby areas.

China Northern Locomotive, which has already sold rolling stock to the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration, also wants to join the Thailand's high-speed-rail project.

Prayut said this project had been negotiated under a government-to-government contract, so China Northern should talk with its government.

China Medical Equipment, meanwhile, said it wanted to build a plant in Thailand in the near future to use as a manufacturing base for exports to third countries. So far, this company has only shipped products to Thailand.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/bus...ransparency-of-rail-deal-with-C-30247542.html


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## Codename B

*Bangkok - Rayong line ready for construction*
*193.5km *

The EIA study for Bangkok - Rayong line is now done! The line will be given to the cabinet, and will begin construction as soon as it is approved.


The line is 193.5km long and cost 1.53 billion baht (466.17 million USD). 
The travel time will be 1 hour and 10 minutes with a speed of 250km/h.
There are 6 stations in total: Lat Krabang (Bangkok), Chachoengsao, Chonburi, Si Racha, Pattaya and Rayong. All elevated and with a tunnel of 300 meters.
The economic return (EIRR) will be 13.26% and financial return (FIRE) of 0.26%.
The price will be 1 baht per km.
Standard gauge 1.435m and with system consistency with european and japanese HSR.

http://news.voicetv.co.th/business/134600.html

_In thai_


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## Codename B

The MoU for the two remaining HSR lines is now approved.


Bangkok - Nakhon Ratchasima and Nakhon Rachasima - Map Ta Put (512 km) : 2015-2020
Nakhon Ratchasima - Nong Khai (355 km) : 2015-2020
------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Thai-China rail project MoU approved*
Published: 25 Nov 2014 at 19.29
Writer: Online Reporters 

*The cabinet approved a draft memorandum of understanding (MoU) between Thailand and China for mutual cooperation on the development of the Nong Khai-Map Ta Phut dual-track electric rail route, government spokesman Yongyuth Maiyalarp said Tuesday.*

The draft MOU, proposed by the Transport Ministry, will allow China to play a lead role in developing the 1.435-metre standard-gauge railway route, stretching 734km from Nong Khai, Nakhon Ratchasima, and Kaeng Khoi district of Saraburi to Map Ta Phut, Rayong, on the Eastern Seaboard. Another 133km section links Bangkok with Kaeng Khoi.

Mr Yongyuth said the cabinet also approved a proposal to set up a Thailand-China joint committee to push ahead with and thrash out the rail project details. The panel will be jointly chaired by Transport Minister Prajin Juntong and the president of China’s National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC). 

The approval came after China agreed to lend Thailand cash to construct three dual-track railways as part of a government-to-government deal to boost regional transport links.

The agreement was made at a full-delegation meeting led by Chinese Premier Li Keqiang and Thai Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha early this month. 

ACM Prajin earlier said the rail project is estimated to cost about 400 billion baht.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/445360/thai-china-rail-project-mou-approved


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## Codename B

http://www.thairailtech.or.th/assets/Uploads/Chaiwat-ThongkamkoonOTPPwp-Eng.pdf


----------



## hans280

Codename B said:


> The MoU for the two remaining HSR lines is now approved.


Sorry, Codename B, but I'm a bit confused. The railway lines you mention (and show on the map) seems to include the new connection between Bangkok and Rayong? Yet, in previous communications that line was supposed to be laid out for 250 km/h, but the information you provided has it down as a more modest 180 km/h. Are they planning two separate lines, or one line in mixed usage as highspeed/normal, or have they simply lowered their level of ambition?


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## Codename B

Those maps, which got released this month are a translation of the thai report from a couple of months ago, so the timeframe might be a little off. 
e.g. EIA for BKK-Rayong line is already done, while in the map it will be done in 2015.

As of now from the latest news, the Bangkok - Rayong line will have a speed of 250km/h (180km/h in Bangkok area), as they are using the old study from the previous government.

The reason for this speed is because this line is mainly for passenger service, while the other two lines will mainly serve cargos and goods to and from China and down to Map Tha Put port. However design studies for these two lines are not done yet, so the chance of them raising the speed, when the study is done sometimes mid 2015, might be a possibility. 

Note: A few months ago they have raised the speed from 160km/h to 180km/h, so we might see that again.



> *China to provide loan for Thai rail projects*
> Wednesday, November 12, 2014 Written by David Briginshaw
> 
> *THE Chinese government has agreed a soft loan for the construction of standard-gauge double-track lines in Thailand, which currently has a metre-gauge rail network.*
> 
> The agreement was signed at the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation (Apec) summit in Beijing by the Chinese premier Mr Li Keqiang and Thailand's prime minister General Prayut Chan-o-cha. Thailand will repay the loan by supplying rubber and rice to China.
> One standard-gauge line will run from Nong Khai on the border with Laos south via Kaeng Khoi where it will split to serve Bangkok and Map Ta Phut in Rayong. There will also be a direct standard-gauge line from Bangkok to Map Ta Phut.
> 
> The lines will be operated initially by what the Thais describe as "mid-speed" trains unless feasibility studies confirm that 250km/h operation will be viable.
> 
> "We have agreed to build the dual-track rail routes using 1435mm-gauge to improve transport connectivity," Prayut said. "If we don't start construction now, it will prove an obstacle to transport in the future. We have to make a decisive move, otherwise transport development will be delayed and the cost of the project will increase."
> 
> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...-loan-for-thai-rail-projects.html?channel=542


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## napoleon

NLA passes MOU for dual-track railway routes

BANGKOK, 4 December 2014 (NNT) - The National Legislative Assembly (NLA) has approved a memorandum of understanding (MOU) between Thailand and China to construct two dual-track railway routes. 

The project is part of Thailand’s infrastructure development plan of 2015-2022 in cooperation with the Chinese government which includes the standard gauge dual-track railways on the 734-kilometer Nong Khai-Korat-Kaeng Khoi-Map Ta Phut Port route and the 133-kilometer Kaeng Khoi-Bangkok route. 

Transport Minister ACM Prajin Juntong presented the project, saying it would give rise to Thailand’s first standard gauge dual-track routes and would be jointly executed by Thailand and China in the form of a government-to-government project. 

During the debate, several NLA members voiced their support for the MOU, believing the project would decrease logistical costs, reduce accidents and pollution and provide convenience for travelers. However, they noted that the project should take into account the effects on communities and the participation of the private sector while involving specialists to ensure the project’s transparency, timeliness and efficiency. Furthermore, they hoped that a summary of benefits and repercussions would also be presented to the NLA for consideration. 

Before concluding his presentation, ACM Prajin added that the MOU was brought to the NLA’s floor for approval in order to demonstrate the project’s transparency and hoped that the project would set a new standard in domestic transportation. Subsequently, the NLA voted 187 in favor of the MOU with 7 abstentions and no objections.

http://thainews.prd.go.th/CenterWeb/NewsEN/NewsDetail?NT01_NewsID=WNPOL5712040010013


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## napoleon

Rail MoU to be signed during PM's China visit this month

The Nation December 9, 2014 5:57 pm

Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha will make an official visit to China on December 22-23 when the memorandum of understanding on the dual-track railroad project in Thailand is expected to be signed.

Government spokesman Yongyuth Mayalarp said Tuesday that Prayut had been invited by the Chinese leader.

The agreement is expected to be inked by Transport Minister Prajin Juntong and the president of China's National Development and Reform Commission.

After that a joint task force would be set up and a Chinese team sent to Thailand to conduct the feasibility study. 

Construction is expected to commence in 2016 on two standard-gauge parallel railways -the 734-kilometre Nong Khai-Korat-Kaeng Khoi-Map Ta Phut Port line and the 133km Kaeng Khoi-Bangkok line.

The project is part of Thailand's infrastructure development plan for 2015-22.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/bus...ed-during-PMs-China-visit-this--30249459.html


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## Codename B

*Thailand, China sign train investment pact*
Published: 19 Dec 2014 at 18.55 Writer: Online Reporters 

*The long wait for new rail system investments ended on Friday after Thailand and China signed an agreement to build new tracks to fulfill Thailand's ambition to improve its hapless train system. *









_Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha (right) smiles in talks with visiting Chinese Premier Li Keqiang while they witnessed the signing ceremony on the train and agriculture agreements at Government House. (Photo by Chanat Katanyu)_

The memorandum of understanding was signed at Government House by Transport Minister Prajin Juntong and Xu Shaoshi, chairman of the National Development and Reform Council of China. The ceremony was witnessed by Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha and Chinese Premier Li Keqiang.

It capped a visit by the Chinese premier who is the most prominent world leader to visit the country since the military seized power on May 22.

Mr Xi will also attend the Greater Mekong Subregion (GMS) summit in Bangkok on Saturday, along with delegates from Thailand, China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar.

Under the agreement signed on Friday, China will build the country's first standard-gauge tracks on two routes. The first one will run from Nong Khai province to the Map Ta Phut deep-sea port in Rayong province via Nakhon Ratchasima province and Kaeng Khoi district in Saraburi for 734 kilometres. A second 133-kilometre line will run from Kaeng Khoi to Bangkok.

The project will be carried out on a government-to-government basis with further financial details including the construction cost to be discussed, according to Thai government statement.

The lines will consist of 1.435-metre tracks that will enable trains to run at speeds up to 180 kilometres per hour, and can accommodate high-speed trains up to 250km/h in the future. The State Railway of Thailand currently uses the 1-metre gauge system.

The Xinhua news agency on Thursday estimated the construction cost at US$10.6 billion (350 billion baht).

Construction could start in 2016 and be completed in 2022, according to the agreement.

The two countries agreed that preparation should start as soon as possible. ACM Prajin said early this month that it could begin in February.

Gen Prayut has said that the new system will be built for normal trains only but did not rule out a plan to bring high-speed trains to Thailand in the future.

The train project is in line with plans to improve its rail transport and the country's ambition to be the transport hub linking Southeast Asia with China.

China plans to build another line from its southern border to Vientiane in Laos which will connect to the Thai line in Nong Khai

The train deal will foster economic growth between China and Southeast Asia, Yang Yong of the China Railway Corporation told Xinhua.

Gen Prayut will visit China on Monday and Tuesday. While there, he plans to take a high-speed train ride from Beijing to Tianjin, said government spokesman Yongyuth Mayalarp said.

The two countries also signed another agreement on agriculture under which China would buy more farm products from Thailand. Commerce Minister Chatchai Sarikulya signed the deal on behalf of Thailand.

Gen Prayut said before meeting with Mr Li that China would buy 2 million tonnes of Thai rice but did not specify the timeframe of the purchase.

Chutima Bunyapraphasara, the permanent secretary for commerce, said the two countries would hold talks in the future about deliveries.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/transport/450907/thailand-china-sign-railway-deal


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## Codename B

*Other countries welcome to invest in three other rail routes: Prajin*
Supalak Ganjanakhundee
The Sunday Nation December 21, 2014 1:00 am

*Japan, South Korea and European countries still have an opportunity to invest in Thailand's railway systems - despite the pending 867-kilometre double-track project being allocated to China, Transport Minister Prajin Juntong said yesterday.*

Besides the recently approved Nong Khai-Nakhon Ratchasima-Kaeng Khoi-Map Ta Phut (734km) and Kaeng Khoi-Bangkok (133km) routes, which China will be involved in, Prajin says the government plans to construct three more rail routes that offer investment opportunities to other countries.

He said the first line would be built along the East-West Economic Corridor - Mae Sot-Phitsanulok-Phetchabun-Khon Kaen-Mukdahan - and the second route was Phu Nam Ron-Kanchanaburi-Bangkok-Rayong.

Japanese investors may be interested in the third route, from Bangkok to Chiang Mai, he said.

"We will discuss these rail development possibilities with Japan when the new [Japanese] government has taken office," he said at the side of the Greater Mekong Sub-region (GMS) summit here.

Prajin said that since the projects were announced in July, many foreign investors had shown an interest, including investors from Japan, South Korea and Europe.

He said the East-West Corridor route was initially going to be a highway but the junta realised a rail system would be a better option logistically. 

The rail route was a crucial part of the rail network in the Greater Mekong Sub-region.

Prajin said GMS countries had agreed to establish the Greater Mekong Railway Association to coordinate and cooperate on rail systems in the region. 

Commenting on the cooperation with China, Prajin said the joint working group - which he would chair - would begin the survey and study work for the project early next year.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/nat...come-to-invest-in-three-other-r-30250323.html


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## Codename B

The plan for all HSR lines are now more clear.

China got two of the lines and construction is expected to begin December 1, 2015 as a new year gift for thais. Construction for these two lines will take 3-4 years.


Nongkhai - Korat - Kaeng Khoi - Map Tha Phut (734 km)
Kaeng Khoi - Bangkok (133 km)

Japan is interested in the remaining three lines and negotiation with Japan will be held at the end of this month or february, after Japan has set up its government.


Bangkok - Chiang Mai (749 km)
Tak - Phitsanunoke- Khon khaen - Mukdahan (658 km)
Pu Nam Ron - Kanchanaburi - Bangkok - Rayong (380 km)









http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1420435456


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## Codename B

*Train construction in Sept: Prajin*
Published: 15 Jan 2015 at 19.18
Writer: Amornrat Mahitthirook 

*The Transport Ministry on Thursday set in motion the first railway investment project with a construction plan tentatively set for a September launch. *

The preliminary timetable is included in the roadmap of the railway investment project and unveiled by Transport Minister Prajin Juntong, as Thailand prepares for a series of meetings on the massive infrastructure plan beginning this month.

China was awarded the first 350-billion-baht project in December to build two dual-track lines of the 1.435 metre standard gauge from Nong Khai to the Map Ta Phut Industrial Estate via Kaeng Khoi district in Saraburi and from Kaeng Khoi to Bangkok. The total distance is 873 kilometres.

The construction plan is divided into four sectors. The first section is from Bangkok to Kaeng Khoi totaling 133km. The second sector of 246km is from Kaeng Khoi to Map Ta Phut. The third section running 138km is from Kaeng Khoi to Nakhon Ratchasima. The fourth sector covering 355km starts in Nakhon Ratchasima and ends in Nong Khai.

ACM Prajin said construction of the first two sections could begin in September and would be ready for service in December 2017. Construction on the third and fourth sectors would begin in December this year and be completed in March 2018.

The project is split into four sectors to speed up the work, he added.

Details of the plan and other issues will be thrashed out in talks between Thai and Chinese officials beginning this month.

The officials will meet for the first time on Jan 20 and 21 in a joint steering committee after signing the train agreement in December in Bangkok. The committee will centre on plans to survey the route and related studies.

Deputy Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith said the new lines would mostly run parallel to the present tracks to save on construction costs.

The second meeting on Feb 5 and 7 will focus on financial and investment issues.

Mr Arkhom said the form of investments remained open, including an option on a joint investment with China, the setting up of an infrastructure fund, a state budget and a plan to mobilise money from the Stock Exchange of Thailand.

One clear condition is that Thailand will take full responsibility for train services, he added.

Officials are now collecting information on Thai construction firms which could join the lucrative project.

The partnership between Thai and Chinese companies will be concluded for approval in the third round of meetings scheduled for Feb 25-27, according to ACM Prajin.

The new tracks will double train speed to 160km per hour and are part of the plan to project Thailand as a transport hub in Southeast Asia.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/transport/457067/train-construction-in-sept-prajin


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## rbt4mak786

Great i really like it thanks for share....


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## Codename B

Wisarut said:


> Investment plan for Thai - China railway to be concluded on 1 March 2015 after the meeting on 25-27 February 2015
> 
> The construction will be 2 phases
> 1. BKK (Bangsue Central) - kaen Khoi - 133 km and Kaeng Khoi - Maptaphut (246.5 km) - construction started on 1 September 2015 and opened in December 2017 - preferably 5 Dec 2017 for a good reason
> 2. Kaeng Khoi - Nakhon Ratchasima (138.5 km) and Nakhon Ratchasima - Nong Khai (355 km) - construction started on 1 December 2015 and opened in March 2018
> 
> Thai contractors need to make a contract with Chinese contractors who have technology to speed up the construction to be done at such a high speed - at least 15 Chinese companies are qualified according to Thai contractors while Chinese section has 5 railway companies and subsidiary to handle contraction - signal and EMUs
> 
> There are many choice of investment - 100% loan in Yuan denomination, Joint venture or Chinese investment first and Thai government paying back - which section Thai government can invest and the relating budgets and loan + mutual funds to finance the project will be discussed later even though it is a big must to use Chinese signals and EMUs but it has to deal with Dong Phraya Yen section [Kaeng Khoi - Pakchong - 55 km] when they are going to construct the line to Khorat while the traffic has to be handled by Thai Railway men of SRT
> 
> However, TDRI raising a concern that there is no proper bidding and the way to construct the line within short period of time is quite expensive - to measure to handle the cost overrun issue - need to reveal all investment plans including the loan and string attached - no bidding means no bargaining
> http://www.bangkokbiznews.com/home/...0150116/628991/เคาะงบรถไฟไทย-จีน4แสนล้าน.html
> http://news.voicetv.co.th/thailand/155424.html
> http://www.dailynews.co.th/Content/economic/294173/_ประจิน_ฟุ้งรถไฟเร็วสูงไทย-จีนเสร็จปี61
> http://manager.co.th/iBizchannel/viewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000005524


..


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## Codename B

*Sino-Thai railway route on track to start this year 873km line estimated to cost at least B350bn*
Published: 16 Jan 2015 at 06.00
Writer: Amornrat Mahitthirook 

*Construction of four sections of a double-track rail route under joint development by Thailand and China are to start this year, according to plans announced by Transport Minister ACM Prajin Juntong Thursday.* 









Two sections are expected to be ready in 2017 and the others in 2018, he said.

The minister was speaking after a preparation meeting for talks with Chinese counterparts scheduled for Tuesday and Wednesday in Bangkok on the joint development of the double-track railways.

Construction of the first two sections — a 133km track from Bangkok to Kaeng Khoi and a 246.5km track between Kaeng Khoi and Map Ta Phut — will begin in September this year, and services on the two sections will begin in December 2017, according to the minister. 

The two other sections — a 138.5km track between Kaeng Khoi and Nakhon Ratchasima and a 355km track from Nakhon Ratchasima to Nong Khai — will be built from December this year, and services will commence in March 2018. 

The route is divided into four sections to serve quick exploration and design, ACM Prajin said. 

The 873km rail project is estimated to cost 350 billion baht. However, he said the sum could change pending the land survey. If new land is needed for the project, land expropriation expenses would rise. 

According to ACM Prajin, the Transport Ministry-based administration office governing the project, headed by permanent secretary for transport Soithip Traisuth, is assigned to design rail and signal systems. 

It will also explore land, deal with the environmental impact, take care of utilities as well as handle the public relations campaign in a bid to move the project forward smoothly, he said.

The project will kick off on March 1 with officials being sent to explore land where the route is planned to go through, he said. 

The minister said the project must run in line with the framework so it will achieve the planned target. 

Speaking about the talks with Chinese counterparts next week, ACM Prajin said details of the projects, including the land survey, construction plans and the time frame for each job, along with the proportions of domestic and foreign investment, will be made clear. 

The minister said 12-15 Thai companies which have experience in various fields are being sought out to take part in the project, while Chinese counterparts will conclude the list of developers from five Chinese state enterprises.

The firms will be weighed up and selected to proceed with the project, he said, adding that the conclusion of the matter will be known at a third meeting on Feb 25-27.

Thailand and China last month also signed an agreement to construct the 734km Nong Khai-Nakhon Ratchasima-Kaeng Khoi-Map Ta Phut rail line and a 133km track from Kaeng Khoi to Bangkok.

Deputy Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith said the first meeting will pave the way for the establishment of a joint steering committee, which will lay out the schedule of work and designs and conduct a project expenses appraisal. 

He noted that train carriage technology will employ the Chinese system, while track design will be made to comply with the Thai topography since it may be necessary for the sections to go through mountain tunnels.

The first talks could also touch upon human resources development and technology sharing on railway construction and operation. 

Mr Arkhom said a sub-committee assigned to make decisions on finance sources and type of investment will have to conduct a study to find the most suitable type of investment and method for the optimum benefit of the country.

The sub-committee must conclude laying out the details before the second meeting on Feb 5-7.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/457128/sino-thai-railway-route-on-track-to-start-this-year


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## Wisarut

Even Chinese correspondents starting to pay attention to such a sudden plan of Junta by Big Jin:
Thailand to build railway project with China in September (泰交通部长预计中泰铁路9月动工 计划两年半内完工)
Locomotive Co. [Photo/Xinhua]
BANGKOK -- Thailand has tentatively decided to begin building its first standard-gauge railways in cooperation with China in September, Transport Minister Prajin Juntong said on Thursday.
Two dual-track rail lines, with a total length of more than 800 km, will be built to connect northeast Thailand's Nong Khai province, Bangkok and eastern Rayong province.
The entire project is divided into four sections, and work on the first two sections, which span 133 km and 246 km respectively, will start in September and conclude in December 2017, Prajin was quoted by Bangkok Post as saying.
The third and fourth sections, totaling 493 km, are expected to commence in December this year and ends in March 2018, he added.
Thai and Chinese officials will meet to talk about details of the plan and other issues, according to the minister.
The first round of meetings between the two sides will take place next week and center on plans to survey the route and related studies.
The second round, scheduled for early February, will focus on financial and investment issues, while the third in late February will discuss the partnership between Thai and Chinese companies, Prajin said.
http://www.guancha.cn/Industry/2015_01_16_306475.shtml
http://europe.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2015-01/16/content_19337985.htm


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## khoojyh

I have a question, let say China build one HSR route and Japan build one, are they finalise train set to use ?


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## Codename B

khoojyh said:


> I have a question, let say China build one HSR route and Japan build one, are they finalise train set to use ?


The first two lines will employ train carriage technology of the Chinese system, however the rest will employ the Japanese system or however get the three remaining lines.


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## khoojyh

Codename B said:


> The first two lines will employ train carriage technology of the Chinese system, however the rest will employ the Japanese system or however get the three remaining lines.


So there would Shinkansen and CRH, 2 system in a country. So passenger from Chiangmai to have train change at lopburi (Ayuttaya?) to continue journey to Bangkok since different of system apply (from Shinkansen to CRH)?


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## Codename B

All lines terminate at Bangkok Bang Sue Grand Station though, while the Northern line and Northeastern line will share the same track up until Ban Pachi Junction (Ayutthaya). 
We should hear more about it once they begin negotiation with Japan and how the technology will work out.

10 platforms on the third floor will be for the HSR network








wwc234 said:


> http://www.hflight.net/forums/topic/15810-นั่ง-b767-300-ไปภูเก็ต-by-orient-thai-airlines/page-2


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## Codename B

> China got two of the lines and construction is expected to begin September & December 2015 for the first two lines.
> Construction for these two lines will take two and half year years.
> 
> Nongkhai - Korat - Kaeng Khoi - Map Tha Phut (734 km)
> Kaeng Khoi - Bangkok (133 km)
> Japan is interested in the remaining three lines and negotiation with Japan will be held at the end of this month or february.
> 
> Bangkok - Chiang Mai (749 km)
> Tak - Phitsanunoke- Khon khaen - Mukdahan (658 km)
> Pu Nam Ron - Kanchanaburi - Bangkok - Rayong (380 km)


All 5 lines would look something like this.


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## khoojyh

Codename B said:


> All 5 lines would look something like this.


Thanks, in my opinion, north south direction should go to one system, east west should be one system. 

i hope Thai high speed rail could bring up the whole piece of Thai base IT technology firm, do not repeat Taiwan high speed rail failure, Taiwan model just like an adult drive Ferrari where he have no ideal how a Ferrari is made.


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## Wisarut

Codename B said:


> All 5 lines would look something like this. http://i60.tinypic.com/6r0g1l.jpg


Where did you get this image? BTW, the route from Mukdahan to Mae Sod still not finalize yet - but the line from Khon Kaen to Mukdahan should follow Ban Phai - Mukdahan - Nakhon Phanom instead as this project also has a space for both meter gauge and standard gauge though. Sadly, there is no real planned route from Ban Phai to Phitsanuloke though ... and I know that the route from Phisanuloke to Mae Sod must pass Sukhothai 



khoojyh said:


> Thanks, in my opinion, north south direction should go to one system, east west should be one system.
> 
> i hope Thai high speed rail could bring up the whole piece of Thai base IT technology firm, do not repeat Taiwan high speed rail failure, Taiwan model just like an adult drive Ferrari where he have no ideal how a Ferrari is made.


to get the fact straight, these networks will have max speed of 160-180 kph as the way to get it done quickly at the cheapest cost and most of the section will follow the existing railway line with the exception of the route from Phitsanuloke to Lampang and Lampang to Lamphun and of course Kaeng Khoi - Pakchong section [AKA Dong Phraya Yen section] - well these are the mix of both passenger and cargo as Chinese demands to run cargo to Laem Chabang Port without changing the trains anyway. an adult drive Ferrari where he have no ideal how a Ferrari is made? Well, we just use terminology as "Driving Mercedes benz on the Cart tracks instead of 4 lane highways" - the Northern line and Northeastern line has shared the track from BKK to Ban Phachi (90 km) though.


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## Codename B

For the Tak-Mukdahan line where the route aren't finalized yet, I loosely drawn it from this image krub.









http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1420435456


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## mosdelta

Standard gauge line construction to start ‘in September’

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...-line-construction-to-start-in-september.html



THAILAND: A series of meetings between Thai and Chinese government officials on January 20-21 is expected to pave the way for construction of Thailand’s planned 1 435 mm gauge main lines to begin by September.

Speaking in Bangkok on January 18, Thai Transport Minister Prajin Juntong set out a provisional timescale for construction of two conventional standard gauge lines totalling 873 route-km. The first of four civil works packages would be implemented from September with a view to the project being completed by March 2018. The four packages cover sections from Kaeng Khoi to Bangkok (133 km), Kaeng Khoi to Map Ta Phut near Rayong (246 km), Kaeng Khoi to Nakhon Ratchasima (138 km) and Nakhon Ratchasima to Nong Khai (355 km).

Forming a north-south corridor intended to support future rail links through Laos to China, the standard gauge lines will be designed for mixed-traffic operation at up to 160 km/h. Construction will be undertaken with Chinese supervision under the terms of a memorandum of understanding between the two governments signed in December 2014. Officials are reported to be assessing how far local contractors could participate ahead of a final project structure being signed off by the end of next month, Prajin said.


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## khoojyh

Wisarut said:


> to get the fact straight, these networks will have max speed of 160-180 kph as the way to get it done quickly at the cheapest cost and most of the section will follow the existing railway line with the exception of the route from Phitsanuloke to Lampang and Lampang to Lamphun and of course Kaeng Khoi - Pakchong section [AKA Dong Phraya Yen section] - well these are the mix of both passenger and cargo as Chinese demands to run cargo to Laem Chabang Port without changing the trains anyway. an adult drive Ferrari where he have no ideal how a Ferrari is made? Well, we just use terminology as "Driving Mercedes benz on the Cart tracks instead of 4 lane highways" - the Northern line and Northeastern line has shared the track from BKK to Ban Phachi (90 km) though.


Thai high potential of IT/ technology/ hardware manufacturer firm is there I believe there should have share the business of high speed train. Is there any request of CRH to set manufacture plant at Thailand? In the other way, what is target % local made product in whole high speed rail project?

Lastly, Chinese demands run cargo freight to seaport, u mean they will use high speed rail truck or old track?


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## Wisarut

khoojyh said:


> Thai high potential of IT/ technology/ hardware manufacturer firm is there I believe there should have share the business of high speed train. Is there any request of CRH to set manufacture plant at Thailand? In the other way, what is target % local made product in whole high speed rail project?
> 
> Lastly, Chinese demands run cargo freight to seaport, u mean they will use high speed rail truck or old track?


New track as those Chinese government have pressed the demands on Thai government that there should be through service as they have fed up with the waste of time of changing bogies or transshipment.

At least, there should be subway rolling stock manufacturing though. However, I expect 50% local content in the local version of subway rolling stocks though.


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## Codename B

Progress on the Bang Sue Grand Station
Pics taken by khun Marut



marut said:


> *Update งานก่อสร้างสถานีกลางบางซื่อ 17 / 01 / 2558*
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## Wisarut

Starting the High Speed train project from Nakhon Ratchasima to Nong Khai (355 km) as a part of Nong Khai - Nakhon Ratchasima - Maptaphut (734 km) with 4 public hearings - Nakhon Ratchasima on 20 Jan 2015 (Sima Thani Hotel near Nakhon Ratchasima railway station), Khon Kaen on 21 Jan 2015, Udonthani on 22 Jan 2015 and Nong Khai on 23 Jan 2015 as Big Jin Demand the project to start the construction in September 2015 - they will use the railway land strip with 80 meter wide and the station area will be 160 meter wide 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...otal_comments=3&ref=notif&notif_t=photo_reply
http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?newsid=1421741929
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vs8_wVQCiYA
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1421747326
http://www.thaihispeedtrain.com/khorat-nongkhai/about3.php
http://m.matichon.co.th/readnews.php?newsid=1421741929
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=408108592680899&set=p.408108592680899&type=1
http://www.thaihispeedtrain.com/khorat-nongkhai/file/doc57-11_opt.pdf 
http://www.thaihispeedtrain.com/khorat-nongkhai/file/doc58-01_opt.pdf 
http://www.thairath.co.th/content/475953

























Design of stations - Bua Yai (big lotus) - Ban Phai (hand made bamboo) - Khon Kaen (Dinosaur) - Udon Thani (Bang Chiang Pottery) - Nong Khai (Naga) - all elevated
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=408111552680603&set=p.408111552680603&type=1
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=408055482686210&set=p.408055482686210&type=1
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=408054282686330&set=p.408054282686330&type=1

















Bua Yai station - Ban Phai station 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=408118622679896&set=p.408118622679896&type=1
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=408054442686314&set=p.408054442686314&type=1









Khon Kaen - Udonthani station
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=408130766012015&set=p.408130766012015&type=1&theater









Nong Khai station
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=408144979343927&set=p.408144979343927&type=1&theater

According to Q & A - it seems to me that even though this line will be 180 kph at the beginning, the line will be upgraded from 200 kph to 200 kph or better for passenger train while cargo train will be 120 kph - Container yard will be in Khon Kaen, Udon Thani and Nong Khai - and after Bug Yai and Ban Phai has been added, there will be container yards at Bua Yai and Ban Phai as well - the axle load is 22.50 ton - something which alarm me as Chinese cargo train use 25 ton locomotives!
http://www.thaihispeedtrain.com/khorat-nongkhai/Q&A.php

More can be seen from 
http://www.thaihispeedtrain.com/khorat-nongkhai/


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## tonii

Wisarut said:


> to get the fact straight, these networks will have max speed of 160-180 kph as the way to get it done quickly at the cheapest cost


That is not quite accurate. The track geographic itself will be planned to support upgrading to higher speed train (250+) in the future. Only that the first operation will be run by 180 kph train. The government will seek for the upgrade once the demand is picking up to the point, so that there is not much need for subsidize.

The cost is not that much lower. Compare to making full fledge high speed, it's only 20-30% cheaper due to less advance signalling and train set. And the only reason why it can be done quickly (2.5 years according to the plan) because the 2 lines is cut into 4 sections, and construction work start as almost as the same time.

And this only apply to north-eastern line where we have MOU with China. There is still no solid information for the rest 3 lines which the government plan to do the same thing with Japanese government. Even though the initial study has already been done base on constructing full fledge high speed train network.


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## NergiZed

Any chance that this will link up with the Chinese HSR system via Laos? I was always under the impression that the Chinese wants an HSR from China to Bangkok all the way down to Singapore through Malaysia.

Although I guess China should probably finish it's own HSR before casting their HSR net on their immediate neighbors.


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## Wisarut

NergiZed said:


> Any chance that this will link up with the Chinese HSR system via Laos? I was always under the impression that the Chinese wants an HSR from China to Bangkok all the way down to Singapore through Malaysia.
> 
> Although I guess China should probably finish it's own HSR before casting their HSR net on their immediate neighbors.


ONLY when Chinese government are forced Lao government to accept the project and loan to finance the project. After that, Chinese loan or Japanese loan to Thai governemnt for the line from Bangsue Central to Padang besar


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## Wisarut

After the first discussion on Thai - China Railway Project - Big Jin has come up with conclusion 
1. Main contractors are Chinese while Thai contractors are subcontracted 
2. Using survey results in 2010 - 2014 including double tracking to help proper connection with existing railway networks to prepare the route and station construction with distribution center in the following sections

2.1 BKK - Kaeng Khoi (133 km) 
2.2 Kaeng Khoi - Map Taphu (246.5 km) - These first 2 sections will be started in October 2015 and done in April 2018
2.3 Kaeng Khoi - Nakhon Ratchasima (138.5 km) 
2.4 Nakhon Ratchasima - Nong Khai (355 km) - These last 2 sections will be started in December 2015 and done in April - October 2019 due to the difficulty to deal with Dong Phraya Yen and Khao Yai National park as well as the communities along Friendship Highway 

3. Max speed is allow 160 - 180 kph with upgradable to real High speed train

Well, Big Jin never neglect the existing meter gauge line at all - Southern line to Malaysia will be electrified double tracking - to connect with electrified routes of KTMB

For the case of Laos, we have learnt that LPDR is going to sign the contract with Chinese government in 2015 and started the construction of Boten - Viengchan route in 2016.

There are 3 ways to deal with project finance
1. Chinese Loan with special interest (2% per annum or lower) with 30-40 year paying period with 10 year grace period - favorite way
2. Public - Private - Participation to be in line with the new PPP law of 2013 
3. Thai - Chinese government investment 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r0..._embedded&x-yt-ts=1421782837&x-yt-cl=84359240
http://www.manager.co.th/iBizChannel/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000008597


Let's see how Japanese - German and South Korea are competing to get the share of the route - after Chinese government manage to get into the line from BKK to Nong Khai and Kaeng Khoi to Map Taphut
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1421910466


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## tonii

NergiZed said:


> Any chance that this will link up with the Chinese HSR system via Laos? I was always under the impression that the Chinese wants an HSR from China to Bangkok all the way down to Singapore through Malaysia.
> 
> Although I guess China should probably finish it's own HSR before casting their HSR net on their immediate neighbors.


It will be standard guage all the way from China to Thailand. China one will be HSR since the beginning. Thailand one will be designed and support and upgradable. Laos one is not clear, but due to country economy, it might not worth running full HSR on that section. So I would say no, until Laos can catch up with its neighbors. Until then, we might only see HSR running on just China or Thailand side.


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## khoojyh

NergiZed said:


> Any chance that this will link up with the Chinese HSR system via Laos? I was always under the impression that the Chinese wants an HSR from China to Bangkok all the way down to Singapore through Malaysia.
> 
> Although I guess China should probably finish it's own HSR before casting their HSR net on their immediate neighbors.


For malaysia to Singapore section. So far planning of high speed train only limited to Kuala Lumpur to Singapore. There is no plan for Kuala Lumpur to northern part of peninsular which bordering with Thailand.


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## khoojyh

tonii said:


> It will be standard guage all the way from China to Thailand. China one will be HSR since the beginning. Thailand one will be designed and support and upgradable. Laos one is not clear, but due to country economy, it might not worth running full HSR on that section. So I would say no, until Laos can catch up with its neighbors. Until then, we might only see HSR running on just China or Thailand side.


Which mean I am actually miss out one information... the HSR project is actually dual track design as per high speed rail requirements but it's run as normal train when it complete? And upgrade to real high speed rail when it is necessary in future?


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## MartinG

Super train


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## Wisarut

Ajarn Sammart warning: if the terms of loan for Bangsue Central - Kaeng Khoi - Nakhon Ratchasima - Nong Khai / Kaeng Khoi - Map Taphut are not so generous as Japanese loan (2-4% annual rate of Chinese loan with grace period of 4 year paid back in 20 years vs 1.4% of Bangsue Bang Yai loan for MRT with grace period of 7 years paid back in 25 years) while Chinese government still impose the right to design, construct, and run the service by themselves without consent from Thai people and Thai government, such a line will be hopeless.
http://www.manager.co.th/Politics/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000017900


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## Codename B

*PM woos private sector to build high-speed trains*
ERICH PARPART
THE NATION February 13, 2015 1:00 am










*PRIME MINISTER General Prayut Chan-o-cha has invited the private sector to build short-distance, high-speed trains to attractive sites near Bangkok in order to facilitate tourism.*

The government will provide support in terms of acquiring land for construction along with tax and non-tax incentives, similar to the Japanese public and private partnership model. Germany is believed to have shown an interest in investing, he said.

The possible rail routes being considered for this high-speed train project are Bangkok-Pattaya and Bangkok-Hua Hin. 

The cost, the conditions, funding and construction plans, along with possible incentives could be proposed by the private sector and the government would be willing to talk to anyone about the matter, he said.

"The Board of Investment [BoI] has discussed today about possible investment in high-speed trains to support the tourism industry," Prayut said. 

The investment will be in the nature of a public and private partnership as there are many well-funded companies that can afford such an investment and the government can provide land for this venture," the prime minister said, after presiding over the BoI's first meeting of the year. "A similar project in Japan for a 700-kilometre high-speed railway costs around Bt400 billion," he said.

He said the government would provide land already owned by the State Railway of Thailand for such an investment. However, the construction of a high-speed line, which would require a relatively straight route, might require the government to expropriate land and provide compensation to people who might be affected in the process.

'Not part of seven-year plan'

Industry Minister Chakramon Phasukavanich clarified that the new idea for a high-speed railway is not part of the government's seven-year plan to build infrastructure worth Bt3 trillion. He said "the government would find it hard to try and fund it on its own", explaining that as the reason why the idea was being floated, to see if it draws a response from the private sector.

"The speed for this new high-speed train idea would be similar to the speed of the [Japanese] Shinkansen, which requires a straight railway line to operate on. This would mean that the construction might require expropriation of land and the estimated cost of Bt400 billion is not expensive. But the amount the government is expected to spend on investment in railways such as double tracks and standard gauges is already high, so this project is open for private sector participation," he said.

He added that Germany's ambassador to Thailand had revealed to him this week that Siemens AG had expressed an interest in the project, as they have extensive expertise in building high-speed railways. The most likely route that was being discussed was Bangkok to Hua Hin via Phetchaburi province. He believes the Bangkok-Pattaya route would be more feasible, as it would pass through Sri Racha district and Laem Chabang Port before Pattaya and could be extended to Map Ta Phut Industrial Estate in the future.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/bus...ctor-to-build-high-speed-trains-30253985.html


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## Wisarut

Even though Mom Aui (ML Pridiyathorn Devakula - grandson HRH Prince Devawongse Varopakarn) want Thai - China railway project - but he decline the loan in Renminbi Yuan denomination as Renminbi Yuan has not been freely floated as US Dollars - lower interest rate in US dollar is preferred by Mom Aui - even though it is more likely that he has seen Renminbi Yuan appreciation in the market so it would hurt Thailand in the long run when Thailand has to pay back the loan.
http://www.thairath.co.th/content/481097

Chinese investors want to make a joint venture with Chonburi Concrete Production PCL (CCP) to produce concrete sleepers for Chinese contractors who are going to win Thai - Chinese railway project
http://www.thanonline.com/index.php...9:2009-02-08-11-47-38&Itemid=479#.VN8HOOasV11

Big Too asking government officers to discuss about how to let private sectors making a joint venture for Thai - China railway projects as well as all the future railway projects including BKK - Pataya high speed + BKK Hua hin High speed which should be a combined route
http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?newsid=1423897535


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## Wisarut

While Big Jin is discussing with China on the issue of Thai - China railway, Big Too has come up with the idea of Shinkansen after the trip to Japan as the way to pressure China to come up with cheaper loan with extended grace period and longer term loan 
http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?newsid=1424052854


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## Codename B

*Chinese officials to visit Nong Khai next month*
The Nation February 17, 2015 4:51 pm

*Chinese representatives will next month visit Nong Khai to survey the location of the Thai-Chinese dual track railway that will link the northeastern province with Bangkok and Rayong.*

Transport Minister ACM Prajin Juntong visited Bejing last week to co-chair a meeting with China on the joint development project of the 1.435-metre standard-gauge rail network (Nong Khai-Nakhon Ratchasima- Kaeng Khoi-Map Ta Phut). 

Prajin said the construction would proceed in the form of a G-2-G joint project. China would commit to the Engineering Procurement Construction (EPC) and lend Thailand with the interest rate below 2 per cent. The loan will also be interest free for the first four years of the twenty-year agreement. 

Representatives of the two countries will re-convene when they visit Nong Khai on March 10-1.

Nong Khai will also serve as an interchange for the Lao route, which was also funded by China. Raising public understanding about the project is also one of the important activities during the visit. 

During the visit, China and Thailand will sign a Memorandum of Cooperation (MoC) on the distribution of the work involved, which will be a clear guide for each country to fulfill the obligations. 

Thailand will basically take on more than half of all works, comprising land expropriation, EIA appproval, civil jobs and planning for commercial developments around the railway. 

China will undertake the observation, design and other tasks needing highly advanced technology such as tunnel boring and mountain road building. Construction of a Maintenance Centre will be undertaken by China in the first phase, before being forwarded to the Thai operation.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/bus...s-to-visit-Nong-Khai-next-month-30254272.html


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## Wisarut

Finding the settlement for Thai - China railway on 10-11 March 2015 - so far Chinese creditor and Chinese government agree that 2.5% interest rate is acceptable even though the wish for the lower interest rates to be at 2% or less along with the extending of grace period from 5 years and loan pay back period from 15 - 20 year would be a lot better - but expect not to borrow money to cover 100% of project since Thai government going to issue bonds and issue the mutual funds for land exappropriation and for construction since exchange rate risk is the greater concern for Thai government. 

For the first section (Bangsue Central - Kaeng Khoi - Klong 19 - Chachoengsao - Pataya - Maptaphut, the construction started in October 2015 to be done in 30 month while the second section (Kaeng Khoi - Pak Chong - Khorat - Nong Khai will be started in early 2016 and done in 36 months. 

Thailand will take at least half of responsibility on Thai - China railway project including land exappropriation, EIA, Civil work other than the jobs since Thailand is an owner of the project
On the other hand, China will take responsibility on tunnel digging, signal and traffic control installation, fast platelaying with concrete sleepers at the same time by Chinese contractors and Thai subcontractors along with the initial survey, design and maintenance center will be done by Chinese contractors first before transferring the jobs to Thai contractors. the new assembly line for rolling stock also has to be handled by Chinese firms.

There will be a field survey on Nong Khai raiway yard to see whether it is appropriate to construction high speed train station just before going across mekhong with the new railway bridge in parallel with existing First Thai - Lao Friendship Bridge.

For Thai - Japan railway, now it is up to the decision for Japanese government to decide which route is to be executed first including:
1. Mae Sod - Tak - Phitsanuloke - Khon Kaen (Ban Phai) - Mukdahan - 770 km
2. Phu Namron - Kanchanaburi - Bangsue Central - Maptaphut with a branch line to Aranyaprathet - 339 km
3. Bangsue Central - Phitsanuloke - Chiang Mai - 653 km

Let's see the agreement with Japan on 17 Feb 2015 before the final decision on Thai - Japan railway project by the end of 2015 though
http://manager.co.th/Daily/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000020208
http://manager.co.th/Politics/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000020009
https://www.facebook.com/NOW26TV/ph...de2fe38c700&size=746,310&fbid=406320062860953
https://www.facebook.com/NOW26TV/ph...41827.262434403916187/406290826197210/?type=1
http://www.chaoprayanews.com/2015/0...B8%B8%E0%B 9%88%E0%B8%99-%E0%B8%A3%E0%B9%88/
http://news.voicetv.co.th/thailand/168525.html
http://www.thairath.co.th/content/481677
http://thaipublica.org/2015/02/the-truth-of-thailand-rail-system-14/
http://manager.co.th/iBizChannel/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000019672
http://www.thanonline.com/index.php...e&id=265757&catid=176&Itemid=524#.VONnefmUfpm
http://www.manager.co.th/iBizChannel/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000019135
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=R1wGEaFNWNY
http://www.dailynews.co.th/Content/...0%B9%89%E0%B8%99 %E0%B8%97%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%87


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## Codename B

..


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## Wisarut

Khun Codename B, you better make an English translation of those scanned and captured info from Khun Marut - in the way I have done here:
http://2bangkokforum.com/showthread.php?3980-SRT-Dark-Red-Line-under-construction&p=47028#post47028


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## Codename B

Can you post yours here krub?  I'm really not good at translating thai to english.


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## Wisarut

Codename B said:


> Can you post yours here krub?  I'm really not good at translating thai to english.



















Donmueang station - almost Donmueang Central by any standard
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater









First phase will have red line commuter only
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater

People of Prempracha community including Thaninthorn village gone mad after learning that ITD is going to demolish Kasem Udomphan flyover across railway track to make the way for red line commuter along with the issue of road damage, dust from construction site, and the cracked and subsided houses due to the vibration. The U-turn ITD is going to make to replace Kasem Udomphan flyover cannot be used by Bicycle and pedestrians at all ... 
http://www.thairath.co.th/content/481902

































Second phase will have both Airport Link extension and High Speed train station to form Donmueang Central
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater

People asking for explanation about the extra works since they never want to take a tax burden to finance the extra works for red line commuter 
http://www.now26.tv/view/35963/ชาวบ้านจี้รัฐแจงปรับแบบรถไฟฟ้าสายสีแดงใหม่.html

























Rangsit station after rearrangement with 4th track 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater


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## Wisarut

Chatuchak station at km 11 after rearrangement with 4th track 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater









Wat Samian Naree station after rearrangement with 4th track 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater









Bangkhen station after rearrangement with 4th track 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater









Thung Song Hong station after rearrangement with 4th track 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater









Laksi station after rearrangement with 4th track 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater









Karn Keha km 19 station after rearrangement with 4th track 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater

























Lak Hok station after rearrangement with 4th track 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater










During the discussion with 200 local people along red line commuter at Donmueang room, Miracle Grand Hotel, SRT insisting that after the rearrangement to add the 4th track and stretching the platform of Bangsue Central from 230 meter o 630 meter, red line commuter networks will be opened by the end of 2018 - Contract 1 is 17.87 % done while Contract 2 is 32.41% done while the 3rd contract is up to bargaining as Mitsubishi - Sumitomo and Hitachi insisting that they can cut down the price up to 35 billion Baht while SRT demand the cut to 30 billion Baht
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1424167945
http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?newsid=1424152928
http://www.bangsue-rangsitredline.com/pr9.php
http://news.voicetv.co.th/thailand/168351.html
http://www.thaipost.net/news/180215/103160


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## Wisarut

Plan for Bangsue Central can be seen here Scanned by Khun Marut 
http://www.otp.go.th/index.php/projectotp/17-2550/1825-itsi.html
https://www.facebook.com/marut28/media_set?set=a.10200255167954652.1073741826.1016592051&type=1












the first floor with the grey zone for the connection with Bangsue Subway station 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater









the second floor with Intercity and red line Commuter train level - Bangsue Station Master office will be on the second floor
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater

















the 3rd floor with Standard gauge line and Airport Link extension - 400 meter long platform for High Speed and 250 meter long platform for Airport Link
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater



















Bangsue Central building after modification
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=752922568109732&set=p.752922568109732&type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...1691709245359.94540.1016592051&type=1&theater

















In the new version of Bangsue Central Scanned by Khun Marut - the 3rd floor is for High Speed train as well as Airport Link extension - this has effectively simplified the yard on the Bangsue Central building as shown here
On the 3rd floor, 4 platforms will be assigned for the Southern standard gauge train 6 platforms will be assigned for Northern and Northeastern standard gauge lines and 2 platforms will be assigned for Eastern line standard gauge including Airport Link extension 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater









the arrangement from the 1st floor to the 3rd floor including Mezzanine level
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater









My Goodness, it must be 10 tracks on Bangsue Central
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...47531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=3&theater

More details about the readjustment of Bangsue Central by Khun Marut
https://www.facebook.com/marut28/media_set?set=a.10205063947531136.1073741946.1016592051&type=1


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## Wisarut

Fast track EIA on 873 km Thai - China railway to get it down within 6 months to be eligible for 2% annual interest loan from China EXIM Bank
China Railway Construction Corporation (CRCC) handled the survey on Bangsue Central - Kaeng Khoi - Klong 19 - Chachoengsao - Maptaphut
China Railway Engineering Corporation (CREC) handled the survey on Kaeng Khoi - Nakhon Ratchasima - Nong Khai
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1424670437


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## kunming tiger

In other words the sooner the better,


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## Wisarut

kunming tiger said:


> In other words the sooner the better,


However, the turbulence on FOREX has compelled Thai government to borrow from domestic sources since the FOREX fluctuation cost even more than higher annual interest rates from domestic sources.


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## ccdk

nice rendering!


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## Codename B

Illustration by Khun ChAiNaRaI for how each tracks will be shared by different systems.

They are: SRT Dark Red line (Commuter), Standard gauge train (HSR), Meter gauge train (SRT), Airport Rail Link (ARL) and freight train.



ChAiNaRaI said:


> อ้างอิงจากแผนปรับแบบสายสีแดง บางซื่อ-รังสิต ตามภาพนี้
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> ผมได้ทำภาพโมเดล 3D จำลองขึ้นมาเพื่อให้เห็นภาพบริเวณถนนวิภาวดีชัดเจนมากขึ้นนะครับ และจำลองถนนถนนวิภาวดีและทางด่วนโทลเวย์ด้วย ทำให้เกิดสิงมหัศจรรย์ทางความวุ่นวายของโครงสร้าง (555)
> 
> ปล.เอา Desiro ตัวอื่นแทน 360 ของ ARL ไปก่อนนะครับ 555
> ปล.โมเดลหัวรถจักร GEA โดยคุณ Suprachoke S. โมเดลรถไฟฟ้าอื่นๆ รถจักรไอน้ำ รถสินค้าจาก 3DWarehouse
> ปล.แชร์ได้ตามสบายครับ
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> ภาพตัดขวางทางวิ่งครับ
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> มุมจากถนน Local Road
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> แบบใหม่นี้ผมพึ่งเห็นหลังจากทำโมเดลแบบเดิมไปแล้ว เลยขอลงทั้งสองเลย
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> ทางรถไฟสายเหนือ จะมี 10 ทางยาวตั้งแต่บางซื่อ-ดอนเมือง หลังดอนเมืองจะเหลือ 6 ทาง และถ้ารวมกับถนนวิภาวดีกับทางด่วน ที่มีช่องการจราจร 16-20 ช่องจราจร
> ปริมาณการเดินทางเข้าออกกรุงเทพจากทิศเหนือช่างมากมายอะไรขนาดนี้จำนวนที่รองรับนี่คงไม่ต่ำกว่า 5 ล้านคนต่อวันเป็นแน่


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## Wisarut

Full benefit from Thai - China railway - while asking for 50 million Baht for railway from Hatyai to Pak bara - 
http://news.voicetv.co.th/business/175722.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fIRrSvR5NFI
http://www.tnamcot.com/2015/03/06/%...%B8%A3%E0%B8%96%E0%B9 %84%E0%B8%9F%E0%B9%84/


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## ComradeFrana

Honestly I'm quite underwhelmed by the planned Bang Sue station. Not only there seems to be zero improvement to the surroundings except green spaces with questionable utility, but more importantly the station doesn't put much thoughts on service integration and inter-modality. 

The most striking to me are separate concourses for HSR and commuter rail, that will result in transferring passengers having to go down from 3rd to 1st and then back to 2nd floor, with obvious bad effects on transfer time and passenger circulation. It also isn't really clear to me if HSR trains will be able to continue south on the Airport link, because if not it will add a (quite avoidable IMHO) transfer and in both cases the location of the Airport link platform (on the side of the station rather than in center), is less than ideal in terms of both station throat conflicts and transfer time.

Additionally, regardless of the above, the station could use another mezzanine between the upper and lower track levels, shortening transfers between both the upper-level platforms themselves and HSR and commuter rail platforms.


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## Wisarut

ComradeFrana said:


> Honestly I'm quite underwhelmed by the planned Bang Sue station. Not only there seems to be zero improvement to the surroundings except green spaces with questionable utility, but more importantly the station doesn't put much thoughts on service integration and inter-modality.
> 
> The most striking to me are separate concourses for HSR and commuter rail, that will result in transferring passengers having to go down from 3rd to 1st and then back to 2nd floor, with obvious bad effects on transfer time and passenger circulation. It also isn't really clear to me if HSR trains will be able to continue south on the Airport link, because if not it will add a (quite avoidable IMHO) transfer and in both cases the location of the Airport link platform (on the side of the station rather than in center), is less than ideal in terms of both station throat conflicts and transfer time.
> 
> Additionally, regardless of the above, the station could use another mezzanine between the upper and lower track levels, shortening transfers between both the upper-level platforms themselves and HSR and commuter rail platforms.


There is a reason why the new design has to make separate levels for High Speed train and commuter train. It is reduction of complexity to cut down the cost which already become cost overrun by endless delays and endless demands. Why ask more if it is the way to cut down the cost when extra works have come?


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## Codename B

*Thailand Railway Infrastructure Projects*
20/03/2015









http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1426668355

*Double Tracking - Meter Gauge - 2,529 km - (120 km/h)*
_Speed for passenger train will be 100 km/h
Speed for freight train will be 60 km/h_

*Phase I - 903 km (2014-2018)*
_Bidding this year_

Chachoengsao - Klong 19 - Kaeng Koi (106 km) : waiting for approval
Thanon Jira Juncton - Khon Kaen (185 km) : waiting for approval
Prachuab Khirikhan - Chumporn (167 km) : waiting for approval
Lopburi - Paknam Pho (148 km) : waiting for EIA
Map Krabao - Nakhon Ratchasima - Thanon Jira Junction (132 km) : waiting for EIA
Nakhon Pathom - Hua Hin (165 km) : waiting for EIA

*Phase II - 1,626 km (2015-2020)*
_EIA to be completed at the end of the year_

Hua Hin - Prachuab Kiri Khan (90 km)
Pak Nampho - Denchai (285 km)
Thanon Jira Junction - Ubon Ratchathani (309 km)
Khon Kaen - Nongkhai (174 km)
Chumphon - Surat Thani (167 km)
Surat Thani - Songkhla (339 km)
Hat Yai - Padang Besar (45 km) : electrified to connect with Malaysia
Denchai - Chiang Mai (217 km)

*Phase III (2016-2020)*

Denchai - Chiang Khong (246 km)
Surat Thani - Phang Nga - Phuket (163 km)
Phetchabun - Loei - Nong Bua Lamphu - Chaiyaphum (n/a)
Nakhon Sawan - Kamphaeng Phet - Tak - Mae Sod (n/a)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Mid Speed Train - Electrified Standard Gauge - 4,035 km - (180 km/h)*
_For passenger trains the maximum speed will be 200 km/h. For freight train the maximum speed will be 120 km/h
The track will be built to be able to handle a speed up to 350 km/h and can be upgraded to HSR later on, when there is enough deman_d

*Phase I - 873 km (2015-2018) - Joint Thai-Chinese railway*

Bangkok - Kaeng Khoi (133 km) : Construction September 2015
Kaeng Khoi - Map Ta Phut (246.5 km) 
Kaeng Khoi - Nakhon Ratchasima (138.5 km) : Construction December 2015
Nakhon Ratchasima - Nong Khai (355 km)

*Phase II - 3,361 km (2016-20??) - Joint Thai-Japanese railway*
Japan will choose one or more routes at the end of the year, when design studies for these routes are done.
It is expected that Japan will choose one of these three routes first or all of them.

Bangkok - Chiang Mai (715 km) : Design study to be done Q4/2015
Kanchanaburi - Laem Chabang & Bangkok - Aranyaprathet (635 km) : Design study to be done Q4/2015
Tak - Mukdahan (700 km) : Design study to be done Q4/2015

_Other routes still under design phase_

Pak Para Deep Seaport - Songkhla Seaport (142 km) : Design study to be done Q4/2015
Bangkok - Padang Besar (970 km) : Thailand is in talks with Malaysia about how this line will be linked at the border. 

*High Speed Train - 414 km - (200-350 km/h)*
_Thailand's largest business groups including the Charoen Pokphand group (CP) and Thai Beverage Plc are interested in co-investing with the government in the high-speed rail routes linking Bangkok with tourist destinations._

Bangkok - Hua Hin (193 km) : Investment plan will be given to the cabinet in May. Bidding this year.
Bangkok - Pattaya - Rayong (221 km) : Investment plan will be given to the cabinet in May. Bidding this year.


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## Wisarut

Now, even the billionaire Thanin of CP and Billionaire Charoen of Thai Bev going to invest in this Hua Hin - Pataya High Speed train project during the ceremony for second subway tunnel - However, the decision on that Bangsue Central - Pataya / Bangsue Central - Hua Hin will be decided in May 2015 - the fares of the High Speed train in question may not be attractive so, the land development around the high speed train stations are in need - Thai bev already hoard the land around Hua Hin area while CP have money to burn and BTSC has both experience on running mass transit and real estate business.
http://www.manager.co.th/iBizChannel/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000027943
http://www.posttoday.com/ธุรกิจ-ตลา.../ชงครม-เคาะรถไฟเร็วสูงกทม-พัทยา-หัวหินพ-ค-นี้
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1425888956
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1425898836
http://www.khaosod.co.th/view_newsonline.php?newsid=TVRReU5Ua3dOakU0TUE9PQ==&subcatid=

still raise a concern on Chinese loan despite of the appeal from Chinese government
http://news.voicetv.co.th/thailand/176970.html

Still raise a concern on High Speed train project - better invest on eliminating rural poverty instead
http://www.khaosod.co.th/view_newsonline.php?newsid=TVRReU5Ua3hNRGMxTlE9PQ==


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## Codename B

*CP, ThaiBev eye high-speed rail routes*
9 Mar 2015 at 15:48
WRITER: PATSARA JIKKHAM

*Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha has confirmed a number of Thailand's largest business groups including the Charoen Pokphand group (CP) and Thai Beverage Plc are interested in co-investing with the government in the high-speed rail routes linking Bangkok with tourist destinations.*

Thai media quoted Arkhom Termpittayapaisith, secretary general of the National Economic and Social Development Board, as saying earlier that some Thai conglomerates were in talks as a group with the government to invest in the Bangkok-Hua Hin and Bangkok-Pattaya-Rayong routes.

In addition to the agribusiness conglomerate CP group and Chang brewer Thai Beverage, industrial estate operator Amata Corporation Plc, consumer products giant Saha Group and skytrain operator Bangkok Mass Transit System Plc were said to be interested.

Gen Prayut checks out the model of the tunnel's cross section.

"Talks are still in progress and they will team up [as a consortium]," Gen Prayut said.

Asked whether CP and ThaiBev could invest together since their businesses are so different, Gen Prayut said: "It doesn't matter. They can borrow. They don't use their own money. I don't know how many have joined [the consortium]. They'll borrow both locally and abroad and invest with the government.

"We'll then talk about the ratio: whether it's 70:30 or 50:50 investment or a share of benefits under the concession model. Since it takes hundreds of billions (of baht), they'll look for an appropriate offer. In any case, a conclusion must be reached this year," said Gen Prayut.

The 211-kilometre Bangkok-Hua Hin route requires an investment of 98.4 billion baht. It is in the process of seeking approval for the environment impact assessment (EIA). The 196km Bangkok-Pattaya-Rayong route, costing 152 billion, has just completed the EIA. 

The premier on Monday launched the eastbound tunnel boring machine for the Tha Phra cut and cover tunnel, which will cross the Chao Phraya River. It is part of the Sanam Chai-Tha Phra extension of the Blue Line.

The 27km Blue line runs from Hua Lamphong-Bang Khae and Bang Sue-Tha Phra. Of the total length, 22km are elevated.

"The Blue Line will be completed by the third quarter of 2018 and the Purple Line will begin a trial run this year," Gen Prayut said.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/492344/cp-thaibev-eye-high-speed-rail-routes


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## Codename B

*Joint Thai-Chinese railway plan on track, says minister*
JIRASAK WONGKAMJAN
THE NATION March 13, 2015 1:00 am

*THAILAND and China are expected to finish surveying the routes and designing the dual-track railway on time, Transport Minister Prajin Juntong said yesterday. The Thailand-China joint committee held its third meeting on developing the standard-gauge (1.435 metre) railroad linking Kunming in China with Vientiane in Laos and Bangkok and Map Ta Phut in Thailand.*

The survey and design for Phase 1 (Bangkok-Kaeng Khoi, Saraburi) and Phase 2 (Kaeng Khoi-Map Ta Phut) are scheduled to be completed by August by China Railways Corporation and China Railway Construction Corporation.

The survey and design of Phase 3 (Kaeng Khoi-Nakhon Ratchasima) and Phase 4 (Nakhon Ratchasima-Nong Khai) is scheduled to be completed by December by the two Chinese corporations. 

All parties will set up field offices this month to oversee construction. 

The project will be divided into three parts:

 Basic infrastructure - track-laying and power-supply work will be undertaken by Thailand;

 Hilly terrain - advanced technology and the railway signalling system will be the responsibility of China;

 Operations and maintenance - will be handled by both countries.

A joint venture will be set up to divide the work into three phases.

In the first three years, China will take responsibility for train operations and rolling stock. 

In the next four years, Thailand and China will work together.

After the seventh year, Thailand will be solely responsible for the entire operation, with China serving as an adviser. China has agreed to Thailand's proposal for China to provide training to staff from entry to high levels and technology transfer to the Transport Ministry, State Railway of Thailand and the private sector. 

Short-term courses of three to six months, or four to eight months, will begin in August. Mid-term courses of 1-1.5 months start in October. Long-term courses of one year or more will kick off this year.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/bus...railway-plan-on-track-says-mini-30255891.html


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## Codename B

Bang Sue Grand Station









https://www.flickr.com/photos/id-image/15809801710/sizes/k/



wwc234 said:


> cr Natthaphat Viriyanukroh


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## NergiZed

Glorious progress.

It's great to see these get underway. I hope this network is eventually tied into the HSRs linking Thailand to China. I would love to venture through SE Asia from Southern China via HSR.


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## Codename B

The first two lines will be be constructed to link with Laos and Kunming in mind. I think Laos is going to begin building their section next year.


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## kunming tiger

Codename B said:


> The first two lines will be be constructed to link with Laos and Kunming in mind. I think Laos is going to begin building their section next year.


 What source do you have to confirm the Laos section will start next year?


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## Wisarut

kunming tiger said:


> What source do you have to confirm the Laos section will start next year?


Well, after the negotiation with Thailand on the railway from Bangsue Central to Nong Khai with a branch line from Kaeng Khoi to Map Ta Phut, the next on the line will force the negotiation on 7200 Million Dollar loan for Lao - China railway soon
http://www.rfa.org/lao/economy/rail...-contract-railway-project-03162015194658.html


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## kunming tiger

I for one can't wait to see tangible progress on the line from the Kunming side.


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## hmmwv

I'm surprised that China only managed to secure such a small portion of the Thai HSR project compare to the Japanese.


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## Codename B

Some of the other HSR lines were presented to China for consideration too, however they were only interested in those two lines, mainly because those lines are consistent with China's plan to connect with ASEAN. 

For the Joint Thai-Japanese railway, it is not final yet, which route or how many routes Japan will choose, they have till the end of the year, when the studies for these lines are done to give their answer. 

________________________________________

*China and Japan plan to build rail lines in Thailand*
Published: Wed, 2015-03-11 08:00

*New rail investors to come to Thailand*

Chinese and Japanese companies to bid for the contracts, for the building of railways in Thailand, according to press-service of the Chinese government.
According to a proposal of Chinese investors, a new rail line will link the port of Rayong to the border with Laos. At the same time, according to plans of Japanese companies, the new rail line will cross the country from east to west and connect Bangkok with the border towns of Thailand. In addition, both China and Japan declared their intention to build high-speed rail lines in Thailand.

In the case of China, implementation of railways projects will help the company to strengthen its economic influence in Asia, while Japan to create conditions for the further development of the Japanese business in Thailand, taking into account a significant number of Japanese companies, doing business in Thailand.

http://www.railwaybulletin.com/2015/03/china-and-japan-plan-to-build-rail-lines-in-thailand


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## Codename B

*Sino-Thai railway operating agreement*
13 Mar 2015

*THAILAND: An operating model for the planned 872 route-km standard gauge north-south corridor was agreed at a meeting of Chinese and Thai officials in Bangkok on March 12.*

The first of four civil works packages worth a total of 328bn baht (US$10bn) would be implemented from September with a view to the project being completed by March 2018. The four packages cover sections from Kaeng Khoi to Bangkok (133 km), Kaeng Khoi to Map Ta Phut near Rayong (246 km), Kaeng Khoi to Nakhon Ratchasima (138 km) and Nakhon Ratchasima to the border town of Nong Khai (355 km).

Under the latest accord, China would run the new railway unilaterally for the first three years of operation. A Thai-led joint venture would then assume responsibility during a three-year transitional period; Thai national railway SRT would hold a 30% stake, private investors from Thailand a further 30%, and Chinese agencies the remainder. One potential stumbling block could be the rates of interest offered by China for loans to fund civil works. The financing arrangements are to be finalised at a summit in Kunming in May.

According to the preliminary details, Thailand will be responsible for the civil works, and Chinese companies for tunnel construction, track and signalling installation and supply of the rolling stock. The railway is intended for mixed-traffic operation, and maximum operating speed would be 180 km/h.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...reement.html?sword_list[]=thailand&no_cache=1


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## Codename B

Investment return and EIA for two high-speed rail line Bangkok - Pattaya & Bangkok - Hua Hin will be accelerated and are expected to be concluded in two weeks.

Bidding for these two lines will be accelerated to be done before the next election on February 2016.

http://www.thairath.co.th/content/487917


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## Wisarut

hmmwv said:


> I'm surprised that China only managed to secure such a small portion of the Thai HSR project compare to the Japanese.


What do you mean? DID Japanese investors are going to get the big chunk? Well, It is up to their own decision to pick the first section to start Thai - Japan railway though ... as it is likely to be the line from Phu Namron checkpoint to Aranyaprathet via Bangsue Central though


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## hmmwv

Wisarut said:


> What do you mean? DID Japanese investors are going to get the big chunk? Well, It is up to their own decision to pick the first section to start Thai - Japan railway though ... as it is likely to be the line from Phu Namron checkpoint to Aranyaprathet via Bangsue Central though


Well, I was just going with what Codename B posted several posts up. It appears that the Chinese portion is only 873km while the Japanese got 3,361km.



> Phase I - 873 km (2015-2018) - Joint Thai-Chinese railway
> Bangkok - Kaeng Khoi (133 km) : Construction September 2015
> Kaeng Khoi - Map Ta Phut (246.5 km)
> Kaeng Khoi - Nakhon Ratchasima (138.5 km) : Construction December 2015
> Nakhon Ratchasima - Nong Khai (355 km)
> 
> Phase II - 3,361 km (2016-20??) - Joint Thai-Japanese railway
> Japan will choose one or more routes at the end of the year, when design studies for these routes are done.
> It is expected that Japan will choose one of these three routes first or all of them.
> Bangkok - Chiang Mai (715 km) : Design study to be done Q4/2015
> Kanchanaburi - Laem Chabang & Bangkok - Aranyaprathet (635 km) : Design study to be done Q4/2015
> Tak - Mukdahan (700 km) : Design study to be done Q4/2015
> 
> Other routes still under design phase
> Pak Para Deep Seaport - Songkhla Seaport (142 km) : Design study to be done Q4/2015
> Bangkok - Padang Besar (970 km) : Thailand is in talks with Malaysia about how this line will be linked at the border.


----------



## tonii

hmmwv said:


> Well, I was just going with what Codename B posted several posts up. It appears that the Chinese portion is only 873km while the Japanese got 3,361km.


This plan has missing a huge southern part which is also in China's plan to link to Singapore. So that might add up in the future. I'm sure China is in the better position to build that line once the project is coming up. (Actually there is already a separate high speed train project linking to Huahin , but it's still not clear if it's going to be shared with this plan or not)

To be fair, those 3 lines which got proposed to Japanese government. Only 2 lines is feasible enough to be build within this 10 years (West to East line, and Northern line). The West - North eastern line is totally new and never been studied before. Hence nobody knows if it's going to be done anytime soon. I doubt it will get pushed much, since there is not much demand yet, and the link to neighbor country (Myanmar on the left and Laos on the right) is unlikely to be real anytime soon. As oppose to the Northern line which link to Thailand 2nd largest city Chaingmai, and West-East line which link between Dawei seaport and Map ta put seaport.

My gut feeling tells me that both countries will get the same amount of work in the end, when everything is set and done. 

Unless the new comer like German and French which start to negotiate with the government will have any influence...


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## kunming tiger

tonii said:


> This plan has missing a huge southern part which is also in China's plan to link to Singapore. So that might add up in the future. I'm sure China is in the better position to build that line once the project is coming up. (Actually there is already a separate high speed train project linking to Huahin , but it's still not clear if it's going to be shared with this plan or not)
> 
> To be fair, those 3 lines which got proposed to Japanese government. Only 2 lines is feasible enough to be build within this 10 years (West to East line, and Northern line). The West - North eastern line is totally new and never been studied before. Hence nobody knows if it's going to be done anytime soon. I doubt it will get pushed much, since there is not much demand yet, and the link to neighbor country (Myanmar on the left and Laos on the right) is unlikely to be real anytime soon. As oppose to the Northern line which link to Thailand 2nd largest city Chaingmai, and West-East line which link between Dawei seaport and Map ta put seaport.
> 
> My gut feeling tells me that both countries will get the same amount of work in the end, when everything is set and done.
> 
> Unless the new comer like German and French which start to negotiate with the government will have any influence...


 The long term plan would be to link Vietnam in the east to Bangladesh in the west. 

Of course all countries along the route would the route would need to see something tangible , up and running first. 

Both the Japanese and the Chinese would have their hands full with their current commitments so the southern link is up for grabs. 

Until the KL to Sin link gets underway nothing will happen.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

^^ Look at the map. A HSR Nanning-Hanoi-Vientiane looks like it could make sense.


----------



## Wisarut

chornedsnorkack said:


> ^^ Look at the map. A HSR Nanning-Hanoi-Vientiane looks like it could make sense.


Lots of Moutain along Xiang Kwang, Hua Phan, and Sam Nuea have made direct route very difficult so the northern connection from Vinh to Tha Khaek before heading to Viengchan capital would be better choice









































Now, we do learn from those who live in Sawankhaloke district of Sukhothai that not all people of Sukhothai are happy with High Speed train as the section from Phitsanulok to Chiang Mai via Sukhothai need land exappropriation as the section from Phitsanuloke to Lampang via Sukhothai requires land exappropriation in Mueang district, Sukhothai district and Sri Satchanalai station and there is no station to connect with Sawankhaloke terminus of Sawankhaloke branch line which has a lot more people but have a station at Sri Satchanalai which is more like the beetroot station rather than viable station. 

Worse, the land exappropriation has gobbled the arable land owned by farmer families for generations without a station or good payment in return so the protest ensues. 
http://manager.co.th/Local/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000032687


----------



## kunming tiger

chornedsnorkack said:


> ^^ Look at the map. A HSR Nanning-Hanoi-Vientiane looks like it could make sense.


 Take a closer look like at ground level the Nanning Hanoi part makes sense 

The link would need to go down the coast then westwards into Laos due to the terrain.

I would say south of Vinh, the problem with this proposal is that it doesn't take into account realities on the ground.

curent infrastrure in Vietnam is poor , falling to pieces. They are currently widening the main highway south .

They to get their level crossings to work get the main highways upgraded to expressway standard.

There is just one expressway in the country.

A direct line through Nanning Hanoi and Vietianne might serve the Chinese but that would be feasible only if the Kunming link was scrapped .

Assuming Vietnam agrees to pay for it and let the Chinese build it and the Central government ignores the Yunnan lobby and abandones the on going HSR construction towards the border with Laos.

But it ignores the fact that Danang port would be esier to link to the terminus of the east link. That opens Central Vietnam. 

I went through this area last month There is no real industry other than agricultural low incomes.


Moving to the other side the contrast was stark, world class expressways factories high rises instead of wooden huts private cars instead of motos cities instead of towns but above dollars instead of dimes. 

Big money is going into Puer 

Neither route is easy But Thailand is being over run by Chinese tourists by Vietnamese tourists particularly from Yunnan and Si Chuan 

Kunming to Bangkok will pay for itself on tourism alone 

An expensive HSR project especially one funded and buit by the Chinese in the current tensions surrounding the South China seas isn't the brightest idea. 

Politics aside they would be more open to linking to Camabodia and thailand via laos to the west easier cheaper and more popular.

Da Nang and Saigon via Laos and Cambodia respectively the cost is minimal to Vietnam .

Right now a direct HSR link to china is dead in the water anti chinese feeling could blow up at any time.

Nobody in their right mind would run the HSR via Vietianne I suspect it was the price the chinese had to pay for the project to cross laos.


----------



## Codename B

*Govt putting all electric train projects into high gear*

*BANGKOK, 21 March 2015 (NNT) – The Prime Minister is adamant his administration has been expediting all pending electric train projects in the Bangkok Metropolis, anticipating their completion within the year 2020.*

Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha stated in his televised public address that the construction of electric rail lines across Bangkok and parts of its vicinities is currently progressing quickly. He noted that the Purple Line Bang Yai-Bang Sue is in the process of system installation and the test run is planned for early 2016. As for the MRT Blue Line extension, he said it is likely to be ready for service in 2018.

Meanwhile, Gen Prayut added that a target has been set for all other projects which are now underway to be finished and put in operation no later than 2020. These projects consist of the Green Line extension, both on the southern section Bearing-Samut Prakan-Bang Pu and the northern section Mo Chit-Saphan Mai-Khu Khot, the Orange Line Rama 9-Min Buri, the Pink Line Khae Rai-Min Buri, and the Red Line Rangsit-Bang Sue.

In regard to the high-speed rail system, the premier disclosed that the government will initially consider short-haul routes between Bangkok and popular destinations, such as Pattaya, Rayong and Hua Hin, due to much interest from private investors. For the Bangkok-Chiang Mai route, he said Japan is keen on investing in the project and the Transport Ministry has been assigned to study the joint venture in detail.

http://thainews.prd.go.th/centerweb/newsen/NewsDetail?NT01_NewsID=WNPOL5803210010006


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## kunming tiger

Case in point 

The Kunming - Bangkok expressway came through Banna crossed Laos into Northern Thailand . Shorter and easier most likely cheaper.

Southern China and Northern Thailand are more heavily populted than Northern Laos even Vietianne is only the size of prefecture level city in Yunnan. Vietnam is larger but most people live in the river deltas or along the coast, NW Vieltnam is sparsely populated. 

Running the line through Vietianne is more political expediency rather than economic neccesity.

Kunming-Yuxi- Simao- Jing Hong- Chiang Rai- Chiang Mai makes more sense than

Nanning-Hanoi-Luang Prabang-Vietianne


----------



## chornedsnorkack

kunming tiger said:


> Take a closer look like at ground level the Nanning Hanoi part makes sense
> 
> The link would need to go down the coast then westwards into Laos due to the terrain.
> 
> I would say south of Vinh,


Agreed. There does seem to be a (minor) road crossing the mountains in that region.


kunming tiger said:


> the problem with this proposal is that it doesn't take into account realities on the ground.
> 
> curent infrastrure in Vietnam is poor , falling to pieces. They are currently widening the main highway south .
> 
> They to get their level crossings to work get the main highways upgraded to expressway standard.
> 
> There is just one expressway in the country.


Yes, but how does the current infrastructure in Laos compare?
I expect it also is poor. Vietnam at least does have the narrow gauge railway from Saigon all the way to Haiphong, Pingxiang and Kunming. Laos has nothing past the Vientiane bridge.
And now look at the terrain. The route north of Vientian goes through mountains all the way north to Yunnan border... and then all the way through Yunnan and beyond.
Whereas the route east of Vientian to Vinh goes along the relatively flat Mekong valley, crosses mountains only briefly between Laos and Vinh, then again over a flat coastal plain. Easy to build, and a lot of people to serve.


kunming tiger said:


> A direct line through Nanning Hanoi and Vietianne might serve the Chinese but that would be feasible only if the Kunming link was scrapped .
> 
> Assuming Vietnam agrees to pay for it and let the Chinese build it and the Central government ignores the Yunnan lobby and abandones the on going HSR construction towards the border with Laos.
> 
> But it ignores the fact that Danang port would be esier to link to the terminus of the east link. That opens Central Vietnam.


Yes, and?
Vietnamese want to build HSR Hanoi-Saigon.
This includes Hanoi-Vinh section.
If China builds Hanoi-Vinh HSR for Vietnam because China wants to get through Vietnam to Laos, then Vietnamese themselves can try to build Vinh-Danang-Saigon, because they want to get to Saigon. Then they have less HSR to build themselves.


kunming tiger said:


> I went through this area last month There is no real industry other than agricultural low incomes.
> 
> 
> Moving to the other side the contrast was stark, world class expressways factories high rises instead of wooden huts private cars instead of motos cities instead of towns but above dollars instead of dimes.
> 
> Big money is going into Puer
> 
> Neither route is easy But Thailand is being over run by Chinese tourists by Vietnamese tourists particularly from Yunnan and Si Chuan
> 
> Kunming to Bangkok will pay for itself on tourism alone


Yes, and? How about Nanning-Hanoi-Vinh-Vientian-Bangkok?


kunming tiger said:


> An expensive HSR project especially one funded and buit by the Chinese in the current tensions surrounding the South China seas isn't the brightest idea.
> 
> Politics aside they would be more open to linking to Camabodia and thailand via laos to the west easier cheaper and more popular.
> 
> Da Nang and Saigon via Laos and Cambodia respectively the cost is minimal to Vietnam .


And the use to Vietnam is also limited.


----------



## kunming tiger

The crossing has to be north of Hue just south of the old DMZ. 

Hue/Da nang seaport by pass Vietianne to the south.

infrastructure down there is a shambles 

They won't make a move until the HSR is up and running and profitable and tensons in the south china seas simmer down.

ideally nanning hanoi hue saigon connecting to phom penn in the south and eastern thailand via hue.

any link to vietianne from hanoi it would have to be a low priority

once the HSR link from kunming is finished i expect large influx of chinese into laos .


----------



## kunming tiger

1.If China builds Hanoi-Vinh HSR for Vietnam because China wants to get through Vietnam to Laos, then Vietnamese themselves can try to build Vinh-Danang-Saigon, because they want to get to Saigon. Then they have less HSR to build themselves.

The Chinese want to get to SE Asia not Vietianne via Vietnam once they join kunming to bangkok then it's done.

2,And now look at the terrain. The route north of Vientian goes through mountains all the way north to Yunnan border... and then all the way through Yunnan and beyond.
Whereas the route east of Vientian to Vinh goes along the relatively flat Mekong valley, crosses mountains only briefly between Laos and Vinh, then again over a flat coastal plain. Easy to build, and a lot of people to serve.

Once you reach Yunnan proper from Vietnam it is a plateau it's flat from Laos it is uphill but the expressway allows for high speed until you get onto the plateau

3 Whereas the route east of Vientian to Vinh goes along the relatively flat Mekong valley, crosses mountains only briefly between Laos and Vinh, then again over a flat coastal plain. Easy to build, and a lot of people to serve.

define a lot


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## chornedsnorkack

kunming tiger said:


> The crossing has to be north of Hue just south of the old DMZ.
> 
> Hue/Da nang seaport by pass Vietianne to the south.
> 
> infrastructure down there is a shambles


Then can you explain - why detour to Hue, not Vinh?


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## kunming tiger

Easy there are three major seaports in Haiphong near Hanoi the one near Saigon and Danang near Hue.

Also the end of the proposed west to east line in Thailand finishes near that areay . 

at first i couldn't understand why build such a line but if you join da nang to the seaport in burma you could move freight point to point going around the straights of malacca and south china sea.

hue is also the center of the tourist trade any rail link would need to pass through the two and it is heavily populated more so than vinh you have hoi an directly south.

in hindsight if the thais can get the vietnamese and burmese to sign on with japanese help that line would be very important more so freight 
finally disposble incomes are higher in the hue hoi an area. poor roads mean cars are
not a good option


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## kunming tiger

da wei port in burma might be the other port i was referring to


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## Codename B

One of the lines will go to Laem Chabang and Map Tha Phut Seaport (Thailand's biggest seaport), so I think there's a little reason for China to want HSR to Danang.

Thailand's plan to bypass the Malacca Strait is constructing HSR line from Map Tha Phut Seaport to Myanmar's Dawei Seaport.

Line 2 on the map


----------



## kunming tiger

Only recently was Dawei connected to the rest of Myanmar by road and rail. There are plans to construct a deep water port in Dawei.[3] In November 2010, the Myanmar Port Authority signed a US$8.6 billion deal with Italian-Thai Development to develop the seaport at Dawei.[4] This development would become Myanmar's first special economic zone (SEZ), which includes plans to develop a 250 square kilometres (97 sq mi) industrial estate, with sea, land (railway and road) infrastructure links to Thailand, Cambodia, and Vietnam, as well as a gas pipeline to Thailand's Kanchanaburi Province and commercial and residential developments.[5]

A transnational highway and a railway line across the Tenasserim Hills connecting Dawei and Bangkok are planned if the deep water port project goes ahead.[7] This port could significantly reduce Singapore-bound traffic when completed.[8]


----------



## Codename B

Like this.









http://www.thaibizchina.com/thaibizchina/th/about-china/country/sichuan/transport.php


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## kunming tiger

Codename B said:


> One of the lines will go to Laem Chabang Seaport (Thailand's biggest seaport), so I think there's a little reason for China to want HSR to Danang.
> 
> Thailand's plan to bypass the Malacca Strait is constructing HSR line from Laem Chabang Seaport to Myanmar's Dawei Seaport.



I think you mis understood my post it's true that they Chinese dont care abou a HSR link to da nang 

however the end of the end of the east west link in thailand could be connected to da nang that would be in the interests of vietnam not China.

connecting all the seaports in the region by rail would have advantages.


----------



## kunming tiger

Codename B said:


> Like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.thaibizchina.com/thaibizchina/th/about-china/country/sichuan/transport.php


good map

all major seaports in the region will eventually be linked together .


----------



## Codename B

kunming tiger said:


> I think you mis understood my post it's true that they Chinese dont care abou a HSR link to da nang
> 
> however the end of the end of the east west link in thailand could be connected to da nang that would be in the interests of vietnam not China.
> 
> connecting all the seaports in the region by rail would have advantages.


Yes, you're right. The East-West Corridor line to link Thailand with Danang was only to be a highway at first, however they changed it to be a HSR line to connect the seaports and also promote border trade. But since this line was only thought up recently, we will have to wait for the feasibility- and design study to done at the end of year. 

But I don't really see this line happening soon, since there are other lines that are more important.


----------



## tonii

kunming tiger said:


> I think you mis understood my post it's true that they Chinese dont care abou a HSR link to da nang
> 
> however the end of the end of the east west link in thailand could be connected to da nang that would be in the interests of vietnam not China.
> 
> connecting all the seaports in the region by rail would have advantages.


Yeah that's right. Actually that is the reason why this line (Tak - Mukdahan) just get proposed now. Linking several ASEAN sea ports and promote border trade between Myanmar, Thailand, Laos and Vietnam. Running that line for local Thais alone doesn't serve much since there is little demand around that area.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

kunming tiger said:


> Easy there are three major seaports in Haiphong near Hanoi the one near Saigon and Danang near Hue.
> 
> Also the end of the proposed west to east line in Thailand finishes near that areay .


There is a west to east line in Thailand. It ends at Ubon Rathchathani.

If it were continued across Mekong, South Laos and over mountains to Hue or Danang, then what?

Look at it this way: Vietnam has 3 major settled regions. South Vietnam around Saigon, North Vietnam around Hanoi and Haiphong, and Central Vietnam with Hue and Danang.

If Vietnam wanted a railway connection west to Thailand:
Saigon-Bangkok has to cross the wide delta branches of Mekong. It would also connect Vietnam with Cambodia at Phnom Penh, where the existing railway goes.
Danang-Ubon Rathchathani would have to cross mountains. It would also have to cross southern Laos, but it can cross Mekong upstream of delta, where the river is narrower.
Hanoi-Nong Khai also has to cross mountains, and then middle Laos. Mekong flows west-east there. Since Thai bank has no railway there anyway, it would make sense to follow the Laos bank to Vientiane, and then cross to Nong Khai.

But which of these three would be most useful for Thailand?


----------



## kunming tiger

Codename B said:


> Yes, you're right. The East-West Corridor line to link Thailand with Danang was only to be a highway at first, however they changed it to be a HSR line to connect the seaports and also promote border trade. But since this line was only thought up recently, we will have to wait for the feasibility- and design study to done at the end of year.
> 
> But I don't really see this line happening soon, since there are other lines that are more important.


 They need that west east link built and operating before it could be extended to the south china sea.

shipping freight and passeners would develop that area immensly, 

this won't be done this decade.


----------



## kunming tiger

chornedsnorkack said:


> There is a west to east line in Thailand. It ends at Ubon Rathchathani.
> 
> If it were continued across Mekong, South Laos and over mountains to Hue or Danang, then what?
> 
> Look at it this way: Vietnam has 3 major settled regions. South Vietnam around Saigon, North Vietnam around Hanoi and Haiphong, and Central Vietnam with Hue and Danang.
> 
> If Vietnam wanted a railway connection west to Thailand:
> Saigon-Bangkok has to cross the wide delta branches of Mekong. It would also connect Vietnam with Cambodia at Phnom Penh, where the existing railway goes.
> Danang-Ubon Rathchathani would have to cross mountains. It would also have to cross southern Laos, but it can cross Mekong upstream of delta, where the river is narrower.
> Hanoi-Nong Khai also has to cross mountains, and then middle Laos. Mekong flows west-east there. Since Thai bank has no railway there anyway, it would make sense to follow the Laos bank to Vientiane, and then cross to Nong Khai.
> 
> But which of these three would be most useful for Thailand?



The better question would be what would be useful for Vietnam?

The problem in Vietnam is that geographically and culturally the country is divided into north and south.

there is need to develop the center of the country to link the two together right now development there is lagging the coastal strip is heavily populated can be turned into a tourist strip 

The shortest way into SE Asia is right across the ho Chin minh trail less distance less cost and . from the center to you build north and south. 

Da Nang has the best infrastrucure I've seen the government is already working on it. 

the problem with the nanning hanoi vietianne route is that it does a lot for china not much for vietnam except using it as a transit point. 

the average speed by road is 30 km/h that is faster than the train. that is over mainly flat terrain. 

unless the Chinese propose it, finance it build it but don't operate or own it then fine they can have a a HSR that runs across Vietnam to Nanning.

Short of that Vietnam won't agree to it. The Chinese have never proposed it nor has anybody else for good reason. 

it's duplication of infrastructure , they don't need two links through Laos just one. 

A Nanning Hanoi Da nang Saigon line would link the entire country with branch lines to cambodia and thailand via laos.

it sells itself linked to china SE Asia and the entire country . 

a ride through the mountains of laos won't cut it.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

kunming tiger said:


> The better question would be what would be useful for Vietnam?
> 
> The problem in Vietnam is that geographically and culturally the country is divided into north and south.
> 
> there is need to develop the center of the country to link the two together right now development there is lagging the coastal strip is heavily populated can be turned into a tourist strip
> 
> The shortest way into SE Asia is right across the ho Chin minh trail less distance less cost


Actually, the narrowest neck of Vietnam is around Quang Binh.

But creating a high speed railway from Thailand to Danang does nothing to connect Vietnam. Rather, it cuts Vietnam in three, as Central Vietnam will have its separate connections.

What would connect Vietnam is a high speed railway north-south, Hanoi-Danang-Saigon. And they want to build it. But this does little for anyone else.


kunming tiger said:


> and . from the center to you build north and south.
> 
> Da Nang has the best infrastrucure I've seen the government is already working on it.
> 
> the problem with the nanning hanoi vietianne route is that it does a lot for china not much for vietnam except using it as a transit point.
> 
> the average speed by road is 30 km/h that is faster than the train. that is over mainly flat terrain.
> 
> unless the Chinese propose it, finance it build it but don't operate or own it then fine they can have a a HSR that runs across Vietnam to Nanning.
> 
> Short of that Vietnam won't agree to it. The Chinese have never proposed it nor has anybody else for good reason.
> 
> it's duplication of infrastructure , they don't need two links through Laos just one.


How many links does Yunnan need? Kunming-Guiyang? Kunming-Nanning? Kunming-Chongqing? Kunming-Chengdu? Which of these are excessive?


kunming tiger said:


> A Nanning Hanoi Da nang Saigon line would link the entire country with branch lines to cambodia and thailand via laos.


Sure!
For Vietnam, Hanoi-Vinh-Danang-Saigon would be the mainline, and Hanoi-Nanning and Vinh-Vientiane-Bangkok would be the branch lines. For China, Nanning-Hanoi-Vinh-Vientiane-Bangkok would be the mainline, and Vinh-Danang-Saigon the branch line. Same network!


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## Terminator2014

kunming tiger said:


> Has the line survey work been completed?



昆明兄弟你好! You used to live here?


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## kunming tiger

Terminator2014 said:


> 昆明兄弟你好! You used to live here?


 Thailand, Philippines, Taiwan, China, Australia and New Zealand.

Not in that order


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## Wisarut

Japanese said they are going to invest into 2 major lines:
1. Bangsue Central - Phitsanuloke - Chiang Mai - 680 km
2. Phu Namron - Kanchanaburi - Bangsue Central - Chachoengsao - Laem Chabang with a branch line to Aranyaprathet
2.1 Phu Namron - Kanchanaburi - Bangsue Central - 180 km - with a hope to connect with Dawei Deep sea port
2.2 Bangsue Central - Chachoengsao - Laem Chabang - 139 km
2.3 Bangsue Central - Chachoengsao - Aranyaprathet - 255 km

Sadly, Japanese government declines to invest on Maesod - Tak - Phitsanuloke - Phetchabun - Khon Kaen (Ban Phai) - Roy Ed - Mukdahan (718 km) since they need further studies.
http://www.manager.co.th/iBizChannel/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000037347


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## Codename B

*Japan-Thai project due for approval*
1 Apr 2015 at 06:00 WRITER: AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK

*Japan is likely to get Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha's approval to its plan to build two double-track rail routes running from Kanchanaburi to Sa Kaeo and from Bangkok to Chiang Mai, Transport Minister Prajin Juntong said.*

The routes, which will be joint Japanese-Thai construction projects, will see new standard gauge railways of 1.435m linking provinces and major industrial areas in Thailand's westernmost and easternmost regions as well as the Thai capital and Chiang Mai, the tourist centre in the North.

The plan was unveiled yesterday by ACM Prajin after his meeting with Hiroshi Muto, Vice-Minister for Transport, Tourism and International Affairs of the Japanese Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism to pave the way for the two countries' cooperation.

"Japan has strong intentions to construct both routes and it is likely to win approval," he said. "We're just waiting for the final say from Gen Prayut."

During the meeting, Mr Muto gave ACM Prajin a draft agreement on the two projects for consideration. It is due to be sent to Gen Prayut's cabinet in late April so a memorandum of understanding between the two countries can be written in May.

Then construction can begin as soon as next year, ACM Prajin added. 

The prime minister said earlier that Thailand welcomes foreign countries which want to help develop its railroads, especially the Kanchanaburi-Bangkok-Aranyaprathet-Laem Chabang route.

ACM Prajin said that route is attractive to people from Tokyo because Kanchanaburi, which borders Myanmar, links Thai rail transport and the Dawei deep seaport project which Japanese authorities are interested in helping Nay Pyi Taw develop.

This line also runs past Japan's industrial bases in Thailand and the Laem Chabang industrial estate in Chon Buri before ending in Sa Kaeo's Aranyaprathet district, which is next to Cambodia.

Japan has also expressed interest in helping Thailand conduct studies of the Tak-Phitsanulok-Phetchabun-Khon Kaen-Roi Et-Mukdahan route, ACM Prajin said.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/514039/japan-thai-project-due-for-approval


----------



## Wisarut

Codename B said:


> *Japan-Thai project due for approval*
> 1 Apr 2015 at 06:00 WRITER: AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK


Clear and obvious reasons for this Japanese government's decision:

1. Japanese communities in Chiang Mai and Sri Racha
2. Dawei Deep Sea Port

Hope that MOU will be signed in May 2015 according to schedules - with 8-12 month survey after MOU has been signed and the 4-year construction after the end of survey.

Phu Namron - Kanchanaburi - Bangsue Central - Chachoengsao - Laem Chabang with a branch line to Aranyaprathet will have a mixed use of both passengers and cargo - to load refined oil and industry products for export to Burma and Cambodia. On the other hand, section to Chiang Mai via Phitsanulok will have to focus on passengers

Thai - Japan railway would be financed by JICA loan and Japanese infrastructure funds.

Some interesting fact that Japanese government going to invest on the line to Phu Namron checkpoint and the line to Laem Chabang as electrified double track in meter gauge for the obvious reasons:
1. already have a meter gauge line to Kanchanaburi and Namtok (the good old Thai Burma railway)
2. the existing meter gauge to Laem Chabang Deep Sea Port which come to exist by JICA loan.
3. existing line to Aranyaprathet 

This will effectively allow red line commuter to extend the service if they want to. 
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1427950063


----------



## Wisarut

After Japanese agree to invest on High Speed train from Bangsue Central to Chiang Mai via Phitsanuloke (his home town), he has urged to speed up the railway reforms to allow the High Speed train to Chiang Mai to be realized
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1428057953


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## Codename B

After China got two of the rail lines due to begin construction this September.
Japan has also picked two rail lines. Construction for these lines will begin next year and MoU with Japan will be signed in May. 
Survey and design study will take 8-12 months, while construction is expected to take 4 years.



> *Joint Thai-Chinese Rail Projects - 873 km (2015-2018)*
> 
> Bangkok - Kaeng Khoi (133 km) : Construction in September 2015 (Electrified Standard Gauge 180km/h and above)
> Kaeng Khoi - Map Ta Phut (246.5 km)
> Kaeng Khoi - Nakhon Ratchasima (138.5 km) : Construction in December 2015 (Electrified Standard Gauge 180km/h and above)
> Nakhon Ratchasima - Nong Khai (355 km)





> *Joint Thai-Japanese Rail Projects - 1.964 km (2016-2019)*
> 
> Bangkok - Chiang Mai (672 km) : Construction in 2016 (High Speed Train 250km/h and above)
> Bangkok - Kanchanaburi (180 km) : Construction in 2016 (Electrified Meter Gauge 160km/h)
> Bangkok - Laem Chabang (139 km)
> Bangkok - Aranyaprathet (255 km)
> Tak - Phitsanuloke - Phetchabun - Khon Khaen - Roi Et - Mukdahan (718 km) (No study yet on this line)


Red: Joint Thai-Chinese Rail
Blue: Joint Thai-Japanese Rail
White: Lines under study


----------



## Codename B

*Bang Sue Grand Station*



barth said:


> A sharper, clearer picture, shot this morning ...  (panorama made up of 5 pictures taken with a Canon PowerShot SX60 HS)


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## Wisarut

Japanese plan to bid for high speed train including the line to Chiang Mai or so
http://www.oknation.net/mblog/entry.php?id=953341
http://www.oknation.net/blog/akom/2015/04/09/entry-1


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## Codename B

*Bang Sue Grand Station*









*Photo By Arnuparp Jantakaew*‎


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## Wisarut

Progress on High Speed train to Chiang Mai - as it got a boost from Japanese government to support this project 
route surveying in late 2015, construction in late 2016 and done by the end of 2020. Need 7724 rai of land expropriation (1235.84 hectares) at 10,814 Million Baht - 

OTP just submit the EIA on this Bangsue Central - Chiang Mai line with the distance of 672 km at 426,898 Million Baht with 12 stations with station design according to provincial identity - even the first section from Bangsue central to Phitsanuloke with the distance of 384 km need an investment of 212,893 Million Baht while the line passing 8 provinces ไระ้ 7 stations - all are at the same old station with exception is Lopburi station at Pa Wai (5 km south of existing Lopburi station) and Phichit station (2 km north of existing Phichit station) with the maintenance center at Chiang Rak - 67 km elevated tracks from Bangsue central to Ayutthaya with 4 km tunnel at Lopburi city section and 8.5 km elevated track on Pak Nampho - Beung Boraphet section - the rest is at grade with the height enough to deal with great flood like the flood of 2011

The other section is Phitsanuloke to Chiang Mai at 214,005 Million Baht on 285 km section with 5 stations - need the new track from Sukhothai to Lampang from the section beyond Highway 12 to pass Phrom Phiram (Phitsanuloke), Kong Krailat (Sukhothai) to pass Sri Samrong (Sukhothai), Sawankhaloke (Sukhothai), and Sisatchanalai (Sukhothai) before passing Wangchin (Phrae), Long (Phrae) before passing Highway 1023 and tunnel across Highway 11 to Mae Tha before heading to Lampang station - using the same old track from Nogn Wua Thao to Hang Chat before heading to the new way to Sala Mae Tha (Lamphun) before following the same old track at 10 km before reaching Lamphun station to terminate at the existing Chiang Mai station with the maintenance center at Chiang Mai. Sukhothai station will be 6 km from downtown Sukhothai city and Sisatchanalai is 3 km from downtown Sisatchanalai while the other 3 stations will be at the existing stations. The travel time will be 3 hours and 16 minute

There is a hope to get 24800 passengers a day with the highspeed cargo on the train just like Postal service of France that use TGV for express mail and to replace aviation cargo. 

There is going to be 3 classes
1. VIP class at 200 Baht + 4 Baht per km fares with 3 seats per row -> 2900 Baht
2. VIP class at 100 Baht + 2.50 Baht per km fares with 4 seats per row
3. VIP class at 70 Baht + 1.50 Baht per km fares with 5 seats per row -> 1100 Baht

Note: I have expected the boycott from those from Sawankhaloke as there is no station to connect with the existing Sawankhaloke station while those from Uttaradit and Phrae boycott this high speed train line as it has a station at Sisatchanalai to please those Sukhothai faction at the expense of Uttaradit faction and Phrae faction. There is also a historical burden of those in Sawankhaloke district who used to be the main province until the change to Sukhothai district in 1940. 

http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1428916213


----------



## Codename B

> *Joint Thai-Japanese Rail Projects - 1.964 km (2016-2019)*
> 
> Bangkok - Chiang Mai (672 km) : Construction in 2016 (High Speed Train 250km/h and above)
> Bangkok - Kanchanaburi (180 km) : Construction in 2016 (Electrified Meter Gauge 160km/h)
> Bangkok - Laem Chabang (139 km)
> Bangkok - Aranyaprathet (255 km)
> Tak - Phitsanuloke - Phetchabun - Khon Khaen - Roi Et - Mukdahan (718 km) (No study yet on this line)





















https://www.facebook.com/Homebuyersfanpage/timeline?ref=page_internal


----------



## Codename B

> *Joint Thai-Chinese Rail Projects - 873 km (2015-2018)*
> 
> Bangkok - Kaeng Khoi (133 km) : Construction in September 2015 (Electrified Standard Gauge 180km/h and above)
> Kaeng Khoi - Map Ta Phut (246.5 km)
> Kaeng Khoi - Nakhon Ratchasima (138.5 km) : Construction in December 2015 (Electrified Standard Gauge 180km/h and above)
> Nakhon Ratchasima - Nong Khai (355 km)


*Nakhon Ratchasima - Nong Khai Section*














































Bua Yai Station









Ban Phai Station









Khon Khaen Station









Udonthani Station









Nongkhai Station









https://www.facebook.com/Homebuyersfanpage/timeline?ref=page_internal


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## Wisarut

^^^ 
the only thing that need to change is that the Ban phai station for High Speed train must be 3 km North of existing Ban Phai station to function as junction for the line from Ban Phai to Nakhon Phanom via Mahasarakham, Roy Ed and Mukdahan- Furthermore, Need to find the new place for the bridge across Mekhong for Thai - Lao - China railway as the OTP proposal at 800-900 meter east of existing First Friendship Bridge has been found unsuitable - too closed to Wat Chommanee - and public park - need heavy land exappropriation on Thai side - need to negotiate with Lao side to accept the new place on railway land 
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1428298303


----------



## Codename B

Bangkok - Chiang Mai

The speed will be no less than 250 km/h

Bangkok - Phitsanuloke
386 km 
1 hour 40 minutes
640-1,700 baht (19-52 USD)

Bangkok - Chiang Mai
669 km
3 hour 20 minutes
1,100-2900 baht (33-89 USD)









https://www.facebook.com/Homebuyers...3037740163742/633036980163818/?type=1&theater


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## Codename B

No, he didn't scrap it. It just goes by another name: Electrified Standard Gauge Railway

All lines will be built to handle a speed up to 350 km/h
However they will use mid speed train 180-200 km/h for joint thai-chinese rail to save cost, and because this line will also be used for cargo, but they can raise the speed, when there is enough demand.

Joint thai-japanese will use High speed train with speed of 250 km/h or above, since there is enough passenger demand to justify it, and doesn't have to wait for when there is enough passenger demand to raise the speed.

In addition the government is also mulling HSR with the private sector with starting speed of 250 km/h or above for Bangkok-Pattaya and Bangkok-Hua Hin line, since there is also enough passenger demand to justify it.


----------



## Wisarut

Kullerauge said:


> Ok, seems sensible. I never understood the idea of Yingluck's government to offer high speed passenger transport routes linking Bangkok with the North and Northeast anyway. The northeastern region is populous, but it has very low urbanization, all the population is scattered in thousands of villages and a few small urban centres and purchasing power there is the lowest in Thailand. And a high speed rail ticket from Bangkok to Chiang Mai (the only significant city in the north) would cost more than a flight and be a lot slower.


for the case of Northern line, the way to please her men as she is coming from Chiang Mai.
For the case of Norther eastern line to Nong Khai, it is to connect with Lao - China railway and it is also the way to please Northern Isan voters.
There is a tug of war for the line to Ubon but it has been rejected because it has no international link.


----------



## Codename B

Kullerauge said:


> Maybe a bit on the optimistic side.
> Just for comparison:
> The high speed rail route Berlin-Düsseldorf in Germany, more or less 500 km with 8 stops, needs 4 1/2 hours and costs around 4000 baht.
> 
> PS:
> The German high speed rail segment of Deutsche Bahn is currently in the red because it lost many passengers to cheaper long distance buses.


This is Thailand, price and construction cost are cheaper.
Example. We don't pay the same price as western country for public transport, such as metro. 
Prices will also be in this range to compete with low cost Airlines for the same distance.

The government know well that they will be making a loss at the beginning. Their aim is to encourage development in cities along the lines, following the japanese model, hence the joint thai-chinese railway will also be used to handle cargo to and from China.

The goal for Thai HSR is to achieve this. Create business, create cities and create income.
Japanese model.


----------



## tonii

Kullerauge said:


> Maybe a bit on the optimistic side.
> Just for comparison:
> The high speed rail route Berlin-Düsseldorf in Germany, more or less 500 km with 8 stops, needs 4 1/2 hours and costs around 4000 baht.
> 
> PS:
> The German high speed rail segment of Deutsche Bahn is currently in the red because it lost many passengers to cheaper long distance buses.


Well, you might want to take this into account when you want to justify this line.

* Labour cost here is a lot cheaper
* The initial investment is a lot cheaper (land, construction, etc)
* Train service is always designed to make profit from other stuff (land, office and shop space nearby station, etc) , not purely train service.
* Bangkok - Chiangmai alone has at least 5 millions foreigner tourist traveling between both cities. Excluding the local passenger. 
* Just look at Bangkok metro system and compare to european country. It's already cheaper even with the same technology and system.

This Bangkok - Chiangmai line will run 'at least' 250km/h. Maybe around 300. With the express service, it won't stop at every station but the major one. So you should be able to reach the destination within 3 hours. Yes, it obvious that stopping at every station will make the travel time longer than that.


----------



## tonii

Kullerauge said:


> The news on Thai rail projects are confusing. Will there be _real_ high speed rail or not? I thought Prayut had scrapped all plans of the previous government and instead decided to build new routes with a speed limit of 180 km/h (which clearly is not high speed rail).


I'm not surprise, even for us it's still confusing at first because they don't make thing clear since the beginning. Mostly because the new government doesn't want to be seen as copying the same plan from the last one.

But as Codename-B explain. It's now more clear that all new standard gauge line will be built to support HSR spec (maximum of 350 km/h) with the one joint-venture with Chinese run 180 km/h train at first until demand is picking up, and one with Japanese run at 250+ km/h, and another one which is done via thai PPP will also be 250+ km/h.

Finally the plan is pretty similar to the last one. Except for only north-eastern line which get reduce to 180 for the initial phase due to demand and sharing with freight transport. And the way to finance the project, which originally will come from domestic loan, but now is the joint-venture between Thai government and Chinese/Japanese/Thai Company.


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## tonii

Kullerauge. said:


> ^^
> You don't have to become sarcastic.
> The point in question is if the extra billions for high speed passenger rail, which, unlike freight transport or conventional rail passenger transport, is hardly an essential service, could not be spent on other more important projects in a middle-income country. If you want to build a house, you don't start with a golden roof. Thailand may be a borderline case, as it is a relatively developed country among the emerging economies - but Laos sure has other priorities than wasting 6 billion dollars on luxury rail (Laos' anual GDP is 10 billion dollars).


Its obvious for Loas that they have other priority and should not waste billions onto this project. Anyway last time I heard , Loas section will be just normal standard guage with maximum speed of 160 and no mentioning of upgradable option. Most of the cost will come from tunneling section which occupy most of the line. 

Its an unfortunate case for Laos. They get pressured by Chinese government due to the connectivity to Asean plan. But this will not change anytime soon as many part of the country already get taken over by chinese merchant and business. At this rate it is just a matter of time before they get wholely swallow. 

Thailand already try to play it safe by limit the initial speed. And co-investment with Chinese government will make sure we wont invest too much beyond our capability. Same as the rest of other HSR line which is all joint venture with third party. The only plan that fully fund by the government now is the upgrade of conventional train to be double track not HSR.


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## Codename B

21 Apr 2015

Deputy Minister of Transport has reveal the progress of talks with the private sector with both CP and Thailand Beverage Plc, who are interested in two high-speed rail route, Bangkok - Hua Hin and Bangkok - Pattaya.

For the route of Bangkok to Pattaya, which is less than 200 kilometers, the private sector has proposed to extend the route to Rayong, so that it's worth the investment. Study for the line is expected to take 1-2 months.

clip showing Bangkok-Rayong route





http://www.thairath.co.th/clip/16672


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## Codename B

The government plans to accelerate the Bangkok - Padang Besar line. The southern line will start moving immediately to link with the Thai-Chinese line Bangkok - Nong Khai. 
This line will be a joint venture with the private sector. The initial speed will be 180 km/h at first just like Thai-Chinese lines.

For the Bangkok - Chiang Mai line, MOU with Japan will be signed this May, then in June site survey and design will begin and will take about 1 year.

http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1429693274



> All lines will be built to handle a speed up to 350 km/h
> 
> 
> 
> *Joint Thai-Chinese HSR - 873 km (2015-2018)*
> 
> Bangkok - Kaeng Khoi (133 km) : Construction in September 2015 (180km/h at first)
> Kaeng Khoi - Map Ta Phut (246.5 km)
> Kaeng Khoi - Nakhon Ratchasima (138.5 km) : Construction in December 2015 (180km/h at first)
> Nakhon Ratchasima - Nong Khai (355 km)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Joint Thai-Japanese HSR - 672 km (2016-2019)*
> 
> Bangkok - Chiang Mai (672 km) : Construction in 2016 (200-300km/h)
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Private Sector HSR - 1.375 km*
> 
> Bangkok - Rayong (194 km) : Charoen Pokphand Group (CP) (200-300km/h)
> Bangkok - Hua Hin (211 km) : Thai Beverage Plc (200-300km/h)
> Bangkok - Padang Besar (970 km) : Design Study (180km/h at first)
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## ddes

^^ Are you saying that the Bangkok - Hua Hin and Bangkok - Padang Besar will be two separate lines?


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## Codename B

They will probably use the same track, but Bangkok - Hua Hin section will use a higher speed. Just like the Rayong and Chiang Mai line, which will also share some of the track with the Joint Thai-Chinese line.


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## tonii

Codename B said:


> They will probably use the same track, but Bangkok - Hua Hin section will use a higher speed. Just like the Rayong and Chiang Mai line, which will also share some of the track with the Joint Thai-Chinese line.


A bit correction. Bkk - Ch line will be fully dedicade HSR. Not sharing with anyone. 

The line with initial speed of 180 km/h is built with HSR spec. So I doubt they will double the cost by creating a separate line. As you suggest that they could may well be run 2 services on the same track. But with higher speed on the shared section for HSR train.


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## kunming tiger

ddes said:


> ^^ Are you saying that the Bangkok - Hua Hin and Bangkok - Padang Besar will be two separate lines?


What are the chances of the Padang Besar Line getting the green light anytime soon? 

It seems logical to me that the HSR network to eventually expand to meet up with the line from Singapore.


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## tonii

kunming tiger said:


> What are the chances of the Padang Besar Line getting the green light anytime soon?
> 
> It seems logical to me that the HSR network to eventually expand to meet up with the line from Singapore.


Nobody knows. This is the first time we hear about the southern link (apart from Bkk-Huahin HSR). But the news emphasize that they want to push start on this line as soon as JP joint venture project is finalized so it can be available Not too long after the BKk-Nongkai line finish. 

Its a bit up in the air now. Because this line doesnt have any private sector or other goverbment who express their interest yet (and I doubt the current gov would want to fully fund it as they already have too many project in hand). Good chance would be the third country who join this one or the chinese want to occupy the whole line linking from northeast to south.


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## Wisarut

tonii said:


> Nobody knows. This is the first time we hear about the southern link (apart from Bkk-Huahin HSR). But the news emphasize that they want to push start on this line as soon as JP joint venture project is finalized so it can be available Not too long after the BKk-Nongkai line finish.
> 
> Its a bit up in the air now. Because this line doesnt have any private sector or other goverbment who express their interest yet (and I doubt the current gov would want to fully fund it as they already have too many project in hand). Good chance would be the third country who join this one or the chinese want to occupy the whole line linking from northeast to south.


Billionaire Charoen of Thai Bev, Billionaire Thanin of CP and Billionaire Khiree of BTSC are fight to get the High Speed lines - so Big Jin is going to start the bidding for semi High speed line from BKK to Padang Besar after realizing the full High speed line to Chiang Mai 

Big Jin even expect the semi high speed line from Phu Namron checkpoint - Kanchanaburi [Tha Ruea Noy] - BKK - Chachoengsao - aranyaprathet / Laem Chabang 

For the line to Padang Besar, the regular bidding will be in use as it has been on the interest of billionaire - first section will be Bangsue to Hua Hin and the line to Pataya which is to be start in May 2015 

Thai Bev want the line to Hua Hin while CP want the line to Pataya while the owner of BTSC want to make a JV with China on the route to Nong Khai 

http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1429693274 

CP also asking Thai government to extend the high speed line to Rayong since the line to Pataya is not enough. However, I would like to ask CEO of CP to pressure SRT and consultant company to start this line at either Bangsue Central or Makkasan Central rather than Lad Krabang which is too remote as it is on the eastern suburb, not the city center within Ratchadaphisek ring as either Bangsue Central or Makkasan Central
http://www.thairath.co.th/clip/16672 
http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?newsid=1429789427 
http://www.manager.co.th/iBizChannel/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000046715


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## kunming tiger

tonii said:


> Nobody knows. This is the first time we hear about the southern link (apart from Bkk-Huahin HSR). But the news emphasize that they want to push start on this line as soon as JP joint venture project is finalized so it can be available Not too long after the BKk-Nongkai line finish.
> 
> Its a bit up in the air now. Because this line doesnt have any private sector or other goverbment who express their interest yet (and I doubt the current gov would want to fully fund it as they already have too many project in hand). Good chance would be the third country who join this one or the chinese want to occupy the whole line linking from northeast to south.


 Golden opportunity for someone .


----------



## xjtyou

tonii said:


> Its obvious for Loas that they have other priority and should not waste billions onto this project. Anyway last time I heard , Loas section will be just normal standard guage with maximum speed of 160 and no mentioning of upgradable option. Most of the cost will come from tunneling section which occupy most of the line.
> 
> Its an unfortunate case for Laos. They get pressured by Chinese government due to the connectivity to Asean plan. But this will not change anytime soon as many part of the country already get taken over by chinese merchant and business. At this rate it is just a matter of time before they get wholely swallow.
> 
> Thailand already try to play it safe by limit the initial speed. And co-investment with Chinese government will make sure we wont invest too much beyond our capability. Same as the rest of other HSR line which is all joint venture with third party. The only plan that fully fund by the government now is the upgrade of conventional train to be double track not HSR.


Disagree with your opinion on laos.
If there is no infrastructure, the developmentvof laos will be in the air


----------



## Wisarut

xjtyou said:


> Disagree with your opinion on laos.
> If there is no infrastructure, the developmentvof laos will be in the air


Some Lao nettizens said improving the existing roads with full of potholes first ... while some Lao nettizens never see the benefit of railway transport across the country as they think that Laos should be more like center of Universe to reap the benefits of railway instead of being just a passing


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## tonii

No I dont mean Laos should not build infrastructure. But infrastructure should come with clear benefit and the reasonable price (compare to country GDP). If it is not for the reason to link China down to Asean I doubt this line will get built anytime soon. The cost is huge and it run pass small section of the country with very low density population. Hence it might be better for Laos to shift that money to be used for other infrastructure that has higher priority and give clearer benefit for country development in next decade. Thats my point. 

But never mind. It will get built soon. At least it will benefit the region as a whole. Its just less burden on bigger country at the beginning.


----------



## Codename B

*CP seeks to invest in fast train projects*
Firm meets Prajin over high-speed plan
24 Apr 2015 at 06:00
WRITER: AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK

*Agro-industrial and food conglomerate Charoen Pokphand (CP) has expressed an interest in investing in the government's high-speed train projects, Transport Minister Prajin Juntong says.*

Speaking after a meeting on Thursday with CP executives, ACM Prajin said the agro-business giant wanted to invest in both the development and also administration of the projects.

One project links Bangkok, Pattaya and Rayong, with a total distance of 194km, requiring an initial budget of 150 billion baht, the minister said.

At the meeting, CP had invited two other companies — Citic Construction from Hong Kong and HNA from China, which also showed interest in joining the investment — to meet the minister.

The minister had asked CP to conduct a feasibility study for the project to be submitted to the Transport Ministry by May 9.

"The window of opportunity for investment is still open to other investors," said ACM Prajin, noting the ministry has not yet passed a list of investors to the cabinet but was asking CP to work on a study of the routes the company was interested in.

The ministry expects to submit the list to the cabinet for approval at the end of next month, he said.

Thai Beverage Plc (ThaiBev) also has shown an interest in investing in the high-speed train linking Bangkok and Hua Hin.

Bangkok Mass Transit System Plc, or BTS, has an interest in a double-track train from Khon Kaen to Map Ta Phut.

Meanwhile, Strabag, a construction firm from Germany which is interested in investing in Thai train projects, also met ACM Prajin.

The company has showed an interest in a route between Satun and Songkhla.

Meanwhile, Thailand is working closely with China on a survey of a double-track rail project linking Bangkok, Vientiane and Kunming.

It will include a study on the environmental impacts of the project, and details of how the investment will be funded.

Speaking after another meeting, ACM Prajin said a Chinese team of 80 experts and authorities had been sent to work with Thai officials from the State Railway of Thailand (SRT) and his ministry to conduct a land survey of the Thai rail routes: Bangkok-Kaeng Khoi; Map Ta Phut-Kaeng Khoi; and Nakhon Ratchasima-Nong Khai, the far northeastern province opposite the Lao capital of Vientiane.

The minister also held talks with state authorities overseeing the project to prepare for a meeting with China that is scheduled for May 6-8 to discuss the development of a double-track rail route.

Next month, ACM Prajin said, the Chinese team will install 3D cameras for aerial surveys into areas which stand to be affected.

The results will be fed into the study process.

At the meeting, three working groups, chaired by three SRT deputy governors, were set up.

The working groups comprise technical committee members undertaking work on the rail system and communication systems; commercial and ticketing committee members responsible for route controls, safety concerns, ticketing systems and facilities; and personnel committee members overseeing staff training programmes and maintenance of trains.

As for an environmental preparedness plan, ACM Prajin said a new consultant team hired by the SRT will be set up to support the existing team.

It will work closely with the Chinese to ensure the results of a study on project impacts will be handed over to an environmental committee in September.

Meanwhile, deputy Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith is working on the set-up of the maintenance centre and an investment model, he said.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/539463/cp-seeks-to-invest-in-fast-train-projects


----------



## Codename B

*Thais eye Japanese bullet trains for north-south route*
April 25, 2015 6:26 am JST
JUN ENDO, Nikkei staff writer

*TOKYO -- Thailand could use Japanese bullet trains in its planned north-south rail link, Deputy Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith told The Nikkei here Friday.*

The high-speed link proposed by Thailand's military-led government runs between Bangkok and the northern city of Chiang Mai, about 700km away. The project is seen costing some 430 billion baht ($13.2 billion). It will likely be undertaken by a joint Thai-Japanese effort, Arkhom said.

Thailand could develop the land, while tracks, stations and rolling stock could fall under Japan's purview.

"We will decide how to divide the costs at a future time," Arkhom said.

He expressed hopes of signing a memorandum of understanding with Japan as early as May to launch a formal feasibility study.

The two sides would then spend about a year evaluating the project's safety and possible environmental impact before deciding whether to go ahead with Japanese trains.

"We hope to start construction within 2016 if all goes well," Arkhom said, with a possible completion date of 2020.

Large cities including Ayutthaya and Sukhothai are along the planned route, which could draw demand from both businesspeople and tourists. But the entire undertaking could fall through if recovering investment appears too high a hurdle. Yingluck Shinawatra's interest in Japanese trains as prime minister came to nothing in the end.

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Thai counterpart Prayuth Chan-ocha agreed here in February to cooperate on railroad construction in the Southeast Asian country. Japan has since pushed for the use of its bullet trains.

Tokyo has also proposed a southern route along a major east-west trade artery, with the possibility of speeding up transportation to and from the Dawei special economic zone in Myanmar. Thailand and Japan are also in talks toward a memorandum in this area, Arkhom said.

Thailand plans to build a separate north-south rail link with China, with which it agreed to cooperate on rail projects last December. Bangkok hopes to strike a diplomatic balance between the two Asian powerhouses by reaching a deal with Tokyo as well.

http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Eco...-Japanese-bullet-trains-for-north-south-route


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## SamuraiBlue

Interesting. It seems as if Thais are denying PRC a direct north south route from PRC by going with Japanese on this route.


----------



## Wisarut

SamuraiBlue said:


> Interesting. It seems as if Thais are denying PRC a direct north south route from PRC by going with Japanese on this route.


That because PRC declines the route from Bangsue Central to Chiang Mai as it has no direct link to Chiang Rai and Chiang Khong which is going be business center for Chinese investor up north ... Nevertheless, the route to Chiang Khong would also not be on Chinese interest unless the Lao - China railway to Viengchan has been realized first.

PRC prefers the Bangsue central to Nong Khai with extension to Map Ta Phut via Klong 19 bypass.


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## Codename B

*Bang Sue Grand Station*

Pics by Khun Marut

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=536809&page=53



marut said:


> *สถานีกลางบางซื่อ 26 / 4 / 2558*
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## Wisarut

Japan is going to sign MOU for both 670 km High Speed train from Bangsue central to Chiang Mai and the 574 km rail networks from Phu Namron to Laem Chabang Deep Sea Port with extension to Aranyaprathet in May 2015 while asking Japanese to study on the route from Mae Sod to Mukdahan since SRT only study on the route from Maesod to Phitsanuloke and Ban Phai to Nakhon Phanom via Mukdahan
For the deal with China, it should be a cheap loan with the annual interest rate of less than 2% with 6-7 year grace period and 30 year payback along the issue of the 30-km line from Nong Khai station to Viengchan Capital station 
http://www.thairath.co.th/content/496053
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1430366015


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## Codename B

next ->


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## Wisarut

kunming tiger said:


> Why would a foreigner need to leave the country to renew their visa if he were married to a Thai national?


This is a Visa regulation by Ministry of Foreign Affairs which those expats in Thailand have to do the VISA RUN as a regular basis.



tonii said:


> Khun Wisarut. Could you please not include your own opinion into the news. It's totally out of context and cause confusion (including the visa renewal things).


I just write the things I have seen by my own experience - nothing wrong at all.


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## tonii

There is nothing wrong but it is not part of the news. Nor officially written by the media. If you want to express your opinion at least make the note. So it does not mislead people who has no background of thailand.


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## Codename B

Bang Sue Grand Station taken by khun Marut



marut said:


> *Update สถานีกลางบางซื่อ 17/5/2558*
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## Codename B

News for the two HSR projects by the private sector

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*Govt to finalise 2 high-speed rail projects in June-July*
The Nation May 20, 2015 6:06 pm

*Transport Minister ACM Prajin Juntong revealed Wednesday that the development plans of two high-speed train projects would be finalised around June or July.*

The plans for the two lines - Bangkok-Hua Hin (Bt90 billion) and Bangkok-Pattaya (Bt100 billion) - would be submitted to the Cabinet for approval. 

He expects the signing of memoranda of understanding for the construction around September or October. The construction period will last about three years. 

Only Thai companies will be allowed to bid for the projects, he said.

The MoU for three long routes - Bangkok-Chiang Mai, Mae Sot-Phitsanulok-Khon Kaen-Mukdahan, and Kanchanaburi-Bangkok-Map Ta Phut - is expected to be signed in Japan during May 27-28. Construction is expected to start in the second quarter of 2016.

Prajin added that Thailand and China will finalise in September on the financial cost of two train projects with combined length of 873 km. The first will run from Bangkok to Kaeng Khoi and then Map Ta Phut. The second will link Kaeng Khoi and Nong Khai. 

He said the construction of the first phase - Bangkok-Kaeng Khoi may start in October.

Aside from rail network extension, the Transport Ministry this year is awarded Bt140 billion in this fiscal year to invest in the road network. Additional Bt45 billion was topped up early this year, Prajin said.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/bus...high-speed-rail-projects-in-Jun-30260535.html


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## Wisarut

Now TV 26 report about High Speed train to Hua Hin early August 2015 while High Speed train to Rayong in late August to early September 2015 so the construction can be started in 2016 and take 3 years to get done.

Big Jin said CP is going to invest on High Speed train to Rayong via Pataya, Thai Bev wants High Speed train to Hua Hin while BTSC want both High Speed train to Rayong via Pataya and High Speed train to Hua Hin - German, Hong Kong, Mainland China and Japan also want to invest in this project - either as partner with those Thai company who want to invest on High Speed train or doing without local partners.
http://www.now26.tv/view/44812/คมนาคมเปิดประมูลไฮสปีดเทรนหัวหินส-ค-นี้.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hFQZ5Iz7RtY





Now TV 26 report about High Speed train to Hua Hin early August 2015 while High Speed train to Rayong in late August to early September 2015 so the construction can be started in 2016 and take 3 years to get done.

CP Making a clear decision to invest on High Speed Train for sure
http://www.cp-enews.com/cp_hotnews_view?topic=502


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## Codename B

Natthaphat Viriyanukroh









Natthaphat Viriyanukroh









Natthaphat Viriyanukroh









Natthaphat Viriyanukroh


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## Wisarut

Way to run High Speed train from Bangsue Central to Hua Hin all the way to Surat Thani regular hour vs rush hour
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10205702981306581&set=pcb.10205702990346807&type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10205702981466585&set=pcb.10205702990346807&type=1&theater









Hope to start high speed train service from Bangsue Central to Hua Hin in 2019, Bangsue Central to Surat Thani in 2022 and Bangsue central to Padang Besar in 2039
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10205702988266755&set=pcb.10205702990346807&type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/marut28/posts/10205702990346807


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## tonii

This is the first time I see the detail of southern HSR extension. Hope it's just the old plan and the government will push it to happen faster. Expanding to Padang Besar by 2040 is too long!


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## Wisarut

Construction of High Speed train to Hua Hin and Pataya will be started in 2016 - Bangsue Central - Hua Hin route with the total distance of 206 km alone has a price tag of 81 billion Baht while the 193-km route from Bangkok (Land Krabang) to Pataya and Rayong has a price tag of 150 billion Baht
http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?newsid=1432526236


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## Codename B

*Thailand and Japan to sign agreement on railway projects : Prajin*
May 26, 2015 4:51 pm

*Thailand and Japan will sign the memorandum of cooperation on railway development projects on Wednesday after the Cabinet gave the approval, said Transport Minister Prajin Junthong on Tuesday.*

The Cabinet on its weekly meeting on Tuesday gave the green light to the draft MOC between Thailand and Japan in relation to their joint development of new rail systems in the Kingdom.

The official signing of the MOC between the Thai and Japanese governments will take place tomorrow in Japan.

The agreement applies to three rail routes, namely the Bangkok-Chiang Mai route which is part of the high-speed rail system, the Kanchanaburi-Bangkok-Laem Chabang Port route, and the Mae Sot-Mukdahan route for which Japan will contribute support in the survey process. 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/nat...to-sign-agreement-on-railway-pr-30260957.html


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## Wisarut

Thailand and Japan to sign agreement on railway projects : Prajin
TRANSPORTATION
the Nation
May 26, 2015 4:51 pm
Thailand and Japan will sign the memorandum of cooperation on railway development projects on Wednesday after the Cabinet gave the approval, said Transport Minister Prajin Junthong on Tuesday.

The Cabinet on its weekly meeting on Tuesday gave the green light to the draft MOC between Thailand and Japan in relation to their joint development of new rail systems in the Kingdom.

The official signing of the MOC between the Thai and Japanese governments will take place tomorrow in Japan.

The agreement applies to three rail routes, namely the Bangkok-Chiang Mai route which is part of the high-speed rail system, the Kanchanaburi-Bangkok-Laem Chabang Port route, and the Mae Sot-Mukdahan route for which Japan will contribute support in the survey process. 

Cabinet approves pact with Japan on high-speed railway
THE NATION 
May 26, 2015 5:45 pm
THE CABINET Tuesday approved a draft memorandum of cooperation (MoC) between Thailand and Japan on the joint development of a high-speed railway from Chiang Mai to Bangkok and a feasibility study for the Mae Sot-Mukdahan railway to connect the eastern and the western economic corridors.

Newly appointed Deputy Government Spokesman Colonel Weerachon Sukhondha-patipak said that under the agreement, Japan's Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism (MLIT) and the Japan International Cooperation Agency would work with their Thai counterparts to develop and upgrade the railway system and connectivity within the Southern Economic Corridor linking Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam.

Big Jin said after MoC has been signed, it will take another month to find the way of G to G with the investment in either EPC (Engineering Procurement and Construction) or Public Private Partnership PP 
http://manager.co.th/iBizChannel/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000059810
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1432634474

Thailand approves $12 bln Japan railway scheme
BANGKOK
Related: INDUSTRIALS section
Reuters
Tue May 26, 2015 6:50am EDT 


May 26 Thailand's cabinet has approved a $12 billion railway project to be built with Japanese help, a deputy government spokesman said on Tuesday, one of several big-ticket plans the government hopes will stimulate Southeast Asia's second largest economy.

The Thai-Japan rail project is the latest initiative by the military government to help jump-start a slowing economy by strengthening infrastructure, employment, transport and tourism.

"Thailand's transport minister will be the one to sign the memorandum of cooperation agreement for the railway system with the minister of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism of Japan tomorrow," Colonel Weerachon Sukondhapatipak, the deputy government spokesman told reporters.

The high-speed rail scheme will cover a distance of 670 km (416 miles), connecting Bangkok to the northern city of Chiang Mai.

Construction could begin as early as the second quarter of 2016.

Thailand's trade-dependent economy is stuttering amid slow demand for its exports. The state planning agency recently cut its 2015 full-year growth to 3 to 4 percent from 3.5-4.5 percent.

The government has yet to disclose details on a second railway route connecting the Thai capital Bangkok to various industrial zones, including a deep-sea port on Thailand's eastern seaboard.

The railway projects are separate from the government's eight-year investment plan worth more than $56 billion to upgrade infrastructure, including the development of public transportation, railways, roads and sea and air transportation.

The ruling junta has targeted infrastructure spending as a long-term fix to some structural problems that has been a drag on the economy. The projects are also expected to stimulate private investment.

($1 = 33.5500 baht) (Reporting By Aukkarapon Niyomyat; Writing by Pairat Temphairojana; Editing by Amy Sawitta Lefevre & Shri Navaratnam)


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## Codename B

*Way clear for joint rail project*
Erich Parpart
The Nation May 27, 2015 1:00 am

*The Cabinet yesterday approved a draft memorandum of cooperation (MoC) between Thailand and Japan on the joint development of a high-speed railway from Chiang Mai to Bangkok and a feasibility study for the Mae Sot-Mukdahan railway to connect the eastern and the western economic corridors.*

Newly appointed Deputy Government Spokesman Colonel Weerachon Sukhondha-patipak said that under the agreement, Japan's Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism (MLIT) and the Japan International Cooperation Agency would work with their Thai counterparts to develop and upgrade the railway system and connectivity within the Southern Economic Corridor linking Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam.

The MLIT has also expressed its intention to develop the Bangkok-Rayong railway jointly with Thailand, an offer that is under the study of this country's Transport Ministry.

"There was no mention at the meeting about the cost of the construction or how long the railways would be," Weerachon said, adding that the MoC would be signed by today in Tokyo. 

Transport Minister Prajin Juntong told the Nation Multimedia Group this month that the high-speed railway between Bangkok and Chiang Mai would be 715 kilometres long and was scheduled to open in 2019. 

He also said trains on the route were expected to be capable of 250km/h and the project's value was estimated at Bt400 billion, thanks to a low-interest loan from Japan. The government hopes that the interest rate will not exceed 1.5 per cent. 

The railway project is part of Thailand's strategic transport connectivity plan, linking the mass-transit systems of big cities to small towns and neighbouring countries.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Way-clear-for-joint-rail-project-30260975.html


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## Wisarut

Thai minister interview
Bangkok ready to shoulder bullet train project risk
HIROSHI KOTANI, Nikkei staff writer

Nikkei
May 27, 2015 4:10 am JST

BANGKOK -- The Thai government is willing to lead efforts to adopt Japan's bullet train technology for a high-speed rail project, the transport minister said Tuesday.

Importing the "shinkansen" rail system will entail high costs, Prajin Juntong acknowledged in an exclusive interview with The Nikkei. But the project will have significant value for Thailand, so the government will take on associated risks, he said.

Prajin is scheduled to meet with Japanese counterpart Akihiro Ohta in Tokyo Wednesday, with the two men set to sign a railway cooperation agreement. Plans call for linking the Thai capital to the northern city of Chiang Mai, a tourism destination, with 680km of rail.

Prajin applauded the bullet train technology in the interview, calling it an advanced transport system that involves not only technology but also real estate development along the rail corridor. The shinkansen service is expected to operate in Thailand at 200kph at a minimum, he said, noting that the precise speed will be determined by striking a balance between travel time and cost.

Given that Thailand lacks shinkansen operation expertise, it will ask for Japan's cooperation at the beginning, Prajin said. He also revealed that a task force for hammering out specific development plans by summer 2016 will be launched within the next month with members from both countries.

One issue in Thailand's adoption of a bullet-train system is profitability. While admitting that the project may seem difficult when only economic elements are taken into consideration, Prajin pointed out that it would bring about great benefits overall, such as improving quality of life and buoying tourism.

The project is expected to cost a whopping 430 billion baht ($12.7 billion), according to one estimate. But Prajin declined to comment on the price, saying he will wait until details of the plan are worked out.

The minister did say, however, that the construction cost will be paid by the Thai government and financial support from Japan. He noted that the Japanese government and industry expect Japanese funds to be used for the project -- showing a reluctance to tap the envisioned Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, an institution proposed by China.
http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Eco...k-ready-to-shoulder-bullet-train-project-risk

















Here is Bangsue Central - Chiang Mai High Speed train table
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1428916213
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10205780684449111&set=pcb.10205780690649266&type=1









For Isan line, the table for fee will be as shown
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10205780684409110&set=pcb.10205780690649266&type=1&theater









For eastern seaboard, the ticket will be as this
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10205780684289107&set=pcb.10205780690649266&type=1&theater

Thailand, Japan sign bullet-train deal
27 May 2015 at 17:52 4,290 viewed4 comments
WRITER: KYODO NEWS

Transport Minister Prajin Juntong and his Japanese counterpart Akihiro Ota sign a memorandum of understanding to cooperate on potential introduction of Japan's bullet-train technology in Thailand. (Kyodo photo)
RELATED SEARCH

Thailand railway investment
Thailand and Japan on Wednesday signed a memorandum of understanding to cooperate on the possible introduction of Japan's shinkansen bullet-train technology into the kingdom.

Transport Minister Prajin Juntong and his Japanese counterpart Akihiro Ota signed the pact during talks in Tokyo. The agreement will enable the two countries to begin a feasibility study and evaluate demand and the profitability of a roughly 660-kilometre high-speed railway project linking Bangkok and Chiang Mai.

Tokyo and Bangkok are also expected to discuss specifics, such as the construction of routes and stations, Japanese officials said.

Tokyo is hoping the latest MoU with Bangkok will give a boost to its bid to export bullet train technology to India and other countries.

If realised, the cost of the project is expected to exceed 1 trillion yen (273 billion baht).

Major Japanese companies, such as East Japan Railway Co, Hitachi, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, and Mitsui & Co, are considering joining the project, according to the Japanese Transport Ministry.

Japan has been seeking to increase connectivity in Thailand and Malaysia at a time when members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) are trying to establish a more integrated Asean Economic Community in 2015.

In March, Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha and Japanese Premier Shinzo Abe agreed to speed bilateral talks on developing the railway sector in Thailand.

Get full Bangkok Post printed newspaper experience on your digital devices with Bangkok 
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/transport/574655/thailand-japan-sign-bullet-train-deal


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## Wisarut

Applying Shinkansen technology for Bangsue Central - Chiang Mai with a price tag exceeding 1 trillion Yen (8100 Million USD) but problem remain about the financial resources, along with the finalized exact routes, the station positions, the schedule to implement and open the line even though Thai government said it is about 670 km. If implemented successfully, this will be the second country after Taiwan which used Shinkansen technology. 

Now, Japanese government has set up Consortium to handle this project including East Japan Railway Co. Ltd, Mitsui & Co. Ltd (AKA Mitr Siam in Thailand), Hitachi Co. Ltd and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Co. Ltd) - 

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/business/AJ201505280053
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e0iK9fhxZPU


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## Wisarut

Seh Kai Oo (Maj Gen Sansoen Kaewkamnoed - deputy PM Office Speaker) said even though 670 km Thai - Japan High Speed train from Bangsue to Chiang Mai along with the 574 km cargo line from Phu Namron checkpoint to Laem Chabang and the plan for branch line to Aranyaprathet via Chachoengsao with the new bypass route for Bangkok as well as Kanchanaburi has got MoC signing on 27 May 2015, Thai - Chiang railway from Bangsue Central to Nong Khai via Nakhon Ratchasima with max speed of 180 kph still goes on - with a goal to start the first phase from Bangsue Central to Nakhon ratchasima by the end of 2015 before extending to Nong Khai and branching line from Kaeng Khoi to Maptaphut via Klong 19 bypass along with Eastern line and Sattahip line
http://www.manager.co.th/Home/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000062100
http://thainews.prd.go.th/centerweb/News/NewsDetail?NT01_NewsID=WNECO5806010020002
http://www.tnamcot.com/content/198879
http://www.ryt9.com/s/nnd/2172185
http://www.manager.co.th/Politics/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000062117
http://www.now26.tv/view/45899/รัฐยันเดินหน้า-รถไฟเชื่อมไทย-จีน-ในปี58.html


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## Wisarut

=Tep= said:


>


Now, Chinese Embassy said Chinese government will offer the more flexibility on the financial deals on Thai- China railway projects to get the interest rates closed to what Japanese government has offered which is about 2 percents per annum.
REF: Prachachat Thurakij


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## Neungz

pin


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## Codename B

Bang Sue Grand Station



barth said:


> Today


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## Wisarut

Chiang Mai terminus for High Speed train - while leaving the existing Chiang Mai station on Charoen Mueang road, Wat Ket commune within Chiang Mai city Municipal intact as the existing Chiang Mai terminus was opened 1948 to replace the original one which has been bombed away on 21 Dec 1943. 

















Lamphun station for High Speed train on the existing yard as it is at the edge of Lamphun city - outside the old city moat

















Lampang station for High Speed train on Saman Maitree road while keeping the original Nakhon Lampang station (opened 1 April 1916) intact

https://www.facebook.com/marut28/posts/10205870933385278
http://www.oknation.net/blog/akom/2015/06/05/entry-2










Now, cabinet has just given an approval for Chinese loan from China EXIM Bank to finance Thai - China railways while Big Jin has confirmed that MoT going to push project forward - started with Bangsue Central - Kaeng Khoi - Map Taphut in this October 2015
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1433845061
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1433846347


















Khun Phaisan Phuedmonkhon Condemning toward Democrat man like Ajarn Samart has to resort of telling a blatant lie to the public to say that Thai - China railway has been cancelled - Now, Cabinet just approve the loan from China EXIM bank to finance the construction of Thai - China railwya while red line commuter now getting 10 billion Baht funds via JICA loan
http://manager.co.th/Politics/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000065439


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## Codename B

*Transport Minister asserts rail development going as planned*
Date : 9 มิถุนายน 2558

*BANGKOK, 9 June 2015 (NNT) – Thailand’s cooperation with China and Japan on railroad development projects are moving forward as planned, according to the Transport Minister.* 

The Minister of Transport ACM Prajin Juntong has explained to the Cabinet that the cooperation projects between Thailand - China, and Thailand - Japan under the ministry’s rail transport development project 2015-2022 are proceeding according to plan, adding that he is confident that the projects will be completed within the designated timeframe. 

The rail transport development cooperation between Thailand and China includes the construction of northeastern Bangkok - Nong Khai, and Kaeng Khoi - Maptaphut, a 973 kilometer railway line utilizing the standard gauge 1.435 meter track, allowing trains to operate at speeds of 180 kilometers per hour. 

The Chinese rail project is aimed to serve passengers and accomodate light and high value cargo. The construction will be divided into four phases, with Bangkok - Kaeng Khoi and Kaeng Khoi - Maptaphut designated for the first two phases. 

The construction of the first two phases is scheduled to commence October 2015 with a 30 month timeframe. The later phases, Kaeng Khoi - Nakhon Ratchasima - Nong Khai, will begin construction February 2016 with a 36 months timeframe. 

The northern Bangkok - Chiang Mai High Speed Train line's construction will be carried out in cooperation with Japan, using the Japanese Shinkansen train system on the standard gauge 1.435 meter track. The 672 kilometer high speed line will be capable of train services at over 200 kilometer per hour speed. 

The Japanese train project will mainly serve passengers. The construction for the high speed line is set to commence in mid 2016. 

Thailand and Japan is now studying the feasibility of the eastern line Bangkok - Aranyaprathet and Bangkok - Laem Chabang railway projects, to either use the standard 1.435 meter gauge system or the 1 meter gauge system that is currently used in Thailand. The eastern line project will be mainly designated for cargo transportation.

http://thainews.prd.go.th/CenterWeb...ewsID=WNECO5806090010012#sthash.2mKbrlc5.dpuf


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## Wisarut

More details about Bangsue Central - Hua Hi High speed train - turning Hua HIn station for High Speed train as the new landmark of Hia Hin city

During the inspection tour of SRT governor with Mayor of Hua Hin city to prepare for both massive double tracking from Nakhon Pathom to Hua Hin and from Prachuab Khirikhan to Chumporn and High Speed train from Bangsue to Hua Hin
1. Hua Hin new station building after double tracking will be just the western edge of existing Hua hin station
2. Hua Hin station for High Speed train will be opposite to Hua Hin Airport at Bo Fai
3. Need 6,352 sq. m. for Hua Hin station of high speed train with the station length of 1 km - 450 meter for station building - 
4. both Hua Hin station for High Speed train Hua Hin new station building will be elevated station - using both existing 80 meter wide strip + 40 meter wide strip outside railway area
5. Bangsue Central to Hua Hin with the distance of 221 km and 98.399 billion Baht investment consisted of 83 billion Baht for construction + 9.324 billion Baht for electrification + 1.905 billion Baht consultant + 4.1 billion Baht land exapropriation 
6. EIRR from Bangsue Central to Hua Hin is 8.11% even though the extension to Padang Besar will boost the benefit to 12.76%
7. ticket rate at 2.5-3.0 Baht per km - at 522 - 627 Baht with travel time of 1 hour
8. there will be 4 stations
8.1 Nakhon Pathom at existing Nakhon Pathom station 
8.2 Ratburi at Koo Bua commune - 3 km South of existing station 
8.3 Phetburi at Khao Luang, Thongchai commune on Phewtkasem highway - 1.5 km from existing station 
8.4 Hua Hin in front of Bo Fai AIrporrt [AKA Hua Hin airport] - around Hua Hin Soi 2 - 7 km North of existing Hua Hin station and 300 meter from Phetkasem 

Mayor of Hua Hin going to prepare the mass transportation to connect High Speed train station at Bo fai with downtown Hua Hin - using private run minibus - but need much better decoration to fit with the grace of new Hua hin station at Bo Fai

http://www.thansettakij.com/2015/06/18/3779


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## Codename B

*Southern and Eastern High Speed Rail lines construction to commence in 2016*
Date : 17 มิถุนายน 2558










*BANGKOK, 17 June 2015 (NNT) – The construction of the Bangkok - Hua Hin and Bangkok - Pattaya High Speed Rail lines are expected to commence mid 2016, according to the Minister of Transport. *

The Minister of Transport ACM Prajin Juntong has revealed the progress of the High Speed Rail construction for the southern line Bangkok - Hua Hin and the eastern line Bangkok - Pattaya, saying that the projects have passed the survey and design phase and are now being considered by the Environmental Impact Assessment Committee (EIA). 

He added that the projects will then proceed to the Term of Reference (TOR) drafting phase and will be presented for the Cabinet's consideration in August this year, and the TOR will be disclosed to the public during October - November. The construction operator of these projects will be selected early 2016 and the actual construction is set to commence mid 2016. 

For the SRT Red Line project, the Governor of the State Railway of Thailand (SRT) Wuthichart Kalyanamitra has revealed that the SRT stil does not have an agreement on the median price bargain with MHSC Consortium and the details of the work. He added that new negotiations are set to take place 18 June 2015 to make a conclusive decision within this month. 

The SRT has proposed a budget of 30.5 billion baht, while the proposed budget by the private company is at 32.8 billion baht. The targeted median price is approximately 31 billion baht. 

The SRT Governor has said the negotiation details will be presented for the consideration of the SRT board, while he remains positive that the bargain will be concluded. 

MHSC Consortium is the auction winner in the third contract bidding of the SRT Red Line project, which involves construction for the electrical and mechanical systems for the SRT Red Line Bang Sue - Rangsit, and train procurement for the SRT Red Line Bang Sue - Rangsit and Bang Sue - Taling Chan services.

http://thainews.prd.go.th/CenterWeb...ewsID=WNECO5806170010011#sthash.mlpXwFvd.dpuf
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/bus...ctor-to-build-high-speed-trains-30253985.html


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## Codename B

Bang Sue Grand Station



Bkk3657 said:


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## Codename B

Ten said:


> taken from air , 21 June 2015


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## Wisarut

Route survey for Thai - China railway along with the visiting of of Kaeng khoi loco depot -
https://www.facebook.com/pr.railway/posts/1107105215971015
https://www.facebook.com/pr.railway/photos/pcb.1107105215971015/1107103702637833/?type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/pr.railway/photos/pcb.1107105215971015/1107103705971166/?type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/pr.railway/photos/pcb.1107105215971015/1107103712637832/?type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/pr.railway/photos/pcb.1107105215971015/1107103642637839/?type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/pr.railway/photos/pcb.1107105215971015/1107103645971172/?type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/pr.railway/photos/pcb.1107105215971015/1107103672637836/?type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/pr.railway/photos/pcb.1107105215971015/1107103649304505/?type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/pr.railway/photos/pcb.1107105215971015/1107103665971170/?type=1&theater

Khun Mone son of Singh Sanam Luang reporting that Chinese engineers and workers coming to make a survey around Muean Ek for Thai - China railway from Bangsue central to Nong Khai
https://www.facebook.com/permalink....ent_id=987999781239920&ref=notif&notif_t=like


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## Wisarut

New JV company to run and install signal - need to adjust the route which they have found the 36 km of gas and fuel pipelines of PTT from Klong 1 to Klong Phutsa - Initially Chinese want the pipeline to move out but this requires extra EIA so the route has to be readjusted - For the signal, Chinese want signal center at Bangsue but SRT offer Chiang Rak Noy as Bangsue has got so many development - may not have enough space to do so - Route design must be done by 21 August 2015 with 3-4 more stations - definitely at Ban Phachi and Kaeng Khoi but the rest is up to Chinese and Thai designers - the route changing should not more than 20% to prevent further delays - more stations at Pang Asok and Khok Sa-ad

Japan going to focus on laying the signal system from Bangsue central to Ban Phachi at the distance of 81.8 km
http://www.bangkokbiznews.com/news/detail/654434
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1435749467
http://www.manager.co.th/iBizChannel/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000074450
http://www.manager.co.th/Home/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000074460
http://www.innnews.co.th/shownews/show?newscode=628780
http://www.bangkokbiznews.com/news/detail/654434
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1435738610

the Thai - China railway started to lay the foundation stone at Kaeng Khoi Junction (km 125 from BKK) on 23 october 2015 there will be 4 contracts to be handled by Thai contractors 70% and 30% Chinese contractors on difficult sections (Contract 3) and bridges. Survey can be cut ot 18 months since it follows much of the existing route and more info form double tracking 

4 contractors will be including 

1. Contract 1: Bangsue central - Kaeng Khoi -
2. Contract 2: Kaeng Khoi - klong 19 - Chachoengsao - Pataya Maptaphut
3. Contract 3: Kaeng Khoi - Khorat - digging up the tunnels
4. Contract 4: Khorat - Nong Khai

One team handle Contract 1 and contract 3 and the other handle Contract 2 and Contract 4

BKK - Nong Khai section to use the old EIA and extra info with the maintenance center at Khaeng Khoi and traffic control at Chiang Rai noy

need more stations and some deviated from the old route due to the pipeline at Klong 1

Furthermore, this Thai - China railway must be integrated with Thai - Japan high speed line to Chiang Mai - even though Chinese signal system is considered - must be opened system for nationwide signal integration 

Need conclusion on how to finance section 1 and section 3 on 28-30 August 2015 - 
Frame Work Agreement sign on 10 September 2015
Draft the contract from 11 September to 19 october 2015 to be signed on 20 October 2015 
Lay the foundation stone at Kaeng Khoi Junction (km 125 from BKK) on 23 october 2015

Budget for this project is 420 billion Baht and Chinese promising low interest rates
http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?newsid=1435981693 
http://www.manager.co.th/Daily/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000075077


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## Codename B

Marasi said:


> *China-Thai railway complete in 5 years *
> 27 Jul 2015 at 22:12
> WRITER: AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK
> 
> Transport Minister Prajin Juntong expects the double-track railway linking southern China, Laos and central Thailand will be completed within five years.
> 
> The minister discussed the transnational railway project with Lao authorities in Bangkok on Monday. After the meeting, he said that Thailand and Laos would push for completion by 2020.
> 
> "Tracks in Thailand and Laos will take about four years to connect. The section that will link with Kunming will be done within five years. So by 2020, the link from Kunming to Bangkok and Map Ta Phut surely will be completed," ACM Prajin said.
> 
> He also said that construction for all sections of the railway in the three countries would start this year. He referred to the 520-kilometre-long line from Kunming to China's border with Laos, the 417km section from the border to Vientiane, and the 867km section from Nong Khai province adjacent to Vientiane to Bangkok and the Map Ta Phut area in the eastern province of Rayong.
> 
> Thai and Lao authorities also plan to build a dedicated railway bridge across the Mekong River to serve the transnational railway instead of using existing track on the first Thai-Lao friendship bridge linking Nong Khai and Vientiane, ACM Prajin said.
> 
> http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/transport/635984/china-thai-railway-complete-in-5-years.


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## Codename B

*Thai Transport Min: High-speed train project made significant progress*
BY EDITOR ON	2015-07-29 THAILAND

_High-speed train project made significant progress_

*BANGKOK, 29 July 2015 (NNT) – The Ministry of Transport has revealed that the construction project for a high-speed train between Bangkok and Chiang Mai province has made significant progress.*

Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith said the 672-km high-speed railway is a collaborative effort between Thailand and Japan.

The island country has hired a construction company to provide additional design advice to the existing blueprint made by the Office of Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning.

Mr. Arkhom said Japan is placing great emphasis on safety, as it will be the first time a railway system outside of the country is being modeled after the Shinkansen.

Japan is suggesting that it be built as an extension to the regular railway. The Transport Minister admitted that it would change plans for land expropriation.

Another meeting over the speed railway development will be held in Japan late next month. The complete construction plan is expected to be completed and ready for Cabinet approval in June next year. Construction will begin approximately in two years.










http://news.thaivisa.com/thailand/t...ain-project-made-significant-progress/109710/
http://www.posttoday.com/biz/news/329593


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## Codename B

atomx said:


> * Bangsue grand station @ Jatujak area*
> *under construction
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## Codename B

*CP, ThaiBev line up for train deals*
3 Aug 2015 at 03:28 | WRITER: AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK

*Charoen Pokphand Group (CP), the country's largest agro-industrial and food conglomorate, will propose a 150-billion-baht investment plan for a high-speed train linking Bangkok, Pattaya and Rayong this month, Transport Minister Prajin Juntong says.*

CP met him late last month and reaffirmed the company's interest in developing the 194km Bangkok-Pattaya-Rayong project, ACM Prajin said. The group plans to submit its investment plan for the 150-billion-baht project to the Transport Ministry this month, he said.

Bangkok-Pattaya-Rayong is one of two high-speed train routes planned. The other is the 211km Bangkok-Hua Hin route, worth 98 billion baht. Thai Beverage Plc (ThaiBev) has shown interest in investing in that route, the minister said.

ACM Prajin said the ministry is asking the Secretariat of the Cabinet whether it can submit the Bangkok-Pattaya-Rayong rail project to cabinet for approval ahead of its environment impact assessment (EIA) report.

The State Railway of Thailand (SRT) has yet to get the EIA report and the minister has instructed transport permanent secretary Soithip Traisuth to work with the Natural Resources and Environment Ministry to speed it up.

The EIA report for the Bangkok-Hua Hin route, prepared by the Office of Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning, is finished and now being reviewed by the National Environment Board.

"The cabinet will be asked to set conditions that bids can be called only when the EIA report is endorsed," he said. Bidding is expected to take place in June next year while construction will take netween 30-36 months, he said.

SRT governor Wuthichart Kalyanamitra said the EIA report should be ready this month and later will be sent to the Natural Resources and Environment Ministry for review. He said slow design work has delayed the report. The track passes mountains and river basins and parts of the route also overlap with the Thai-Chinese rail road project linking Map Ta Phut in Rayong and Saraburi's Kaeng Khoi district.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/641516/cp-thaibev-line-up-for-train-deals


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## Codename B

SRT Bang Sue Complex

































http://www.thansettakij.com/2015/08/04/6088
http://www.manager.co.th/iBizChannel/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000090110



barth said:


> Today


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## Qtya

Codename B said:


> Mr. Arkhom said Japan is placing great emphasis on safety, as it will be the first time a railway system outside of the country is being modeled after the Shinkansen.


What about Taiwan's HSR line?


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## SSCreader

The Japanese used 'unconventional' means to win the Taiwanese market, and had to pay US$ 65M as a compensation. As a result of this, the line is using European tech for the signalling, larger tunnel dimensions like in Europe, and the initial driver training was done by French and German drivers.


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## Wisarut

Design of Bangsue Central - Kaeng Khoi - Nakhon Ratchasima will be done on 18 August 2015 - However, Kaeng Khoi - Maptaphut and Khorat - Nong Khai section will have to speed up even though it will pass the deadline of 31 August 2015 but it does not matter as these later 2 section will start the construction in early 2016

After all section design is done, both Thailand and China must set up adviser board to make a price assessment on this project - to hire the consultant in mid August 2015 - with a hope to get a clear price on 30 September 2015 - Thailand is going to find the financial resource to support the construction on steel rail, concrete sleepers and ballast - the signal, electro mechanic, the locomotive and carriages is JV - Chinese side will form a single organization by Public and private participation while SRT and private section will have to form Thai organization ... but still not quite settle that it will be Thai 51 Chinese 49 or Thai 60 Chinese 40

For the financial resource - 1. regular budget, 2. state enterprise funds 3. domestic and foreign loan 4. Infrastructure funds - For the issue of system, it is up to the interest rate of Chinese loan with amount of loan - to be announced on 10-12 September 2015 - the project started on either 23 October 2015 for the memorial of King Chulalongkorn or 1-10 December 2015 during His Majesty's natal day at Kaeng Khoi Junction

Now, there is short term training of 30 railway men of SRT in 40 days from 11 August to 9 October 2015 to learn all about the terminology

http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?newsid=1439350275


Now, Big Jin is so bullish that he expects to lay the corner stone on 23 October 2015 at Kaeng Khoi Junction - the bidding started in either October 2015 or December 2015

For the case of infrastructure, SRT is going to handle using domestic loan of 200 billion Baht - but let's see the result by the end of August 2015

For the traffic and maintenance of 100 billion Baht, this section is what Chinese want to focus with 40% Chinese investment or 40 billion via EXIM Bank of China with 60% investment by Thai section through the new companies.

Signal, electric power, rolling stocks,, traffic and maintainance will be done at Chiang Rak noy which function as OCC - Chinese sector asking Thailand to exempt VAT or import duty to cut the burden during the first 10 years of operation

Let's see th result from the meeting in Pataya on 3-5 September 2015 even though the interest rates have not been concluded yet due to the loan act of both Thailand and China cannot be easily reconciled even though Thailand insisting 2% interest rate per annum at 25-30 year paying period with 6-7 year grace period - need to modify the 40 km section from Rangsit to Ban Phachi to avoid PTT pipelines 

In addition to 5 stations of High speed train [Bangsue Central, Ayutthaya, Saraburi station at Klong Priaw, Pak Chong at Nong Sarai and Khorat], the following 4 station will be added so the cargo train can make a stop to give a way for passenger trains - Ban Phachi Junction, Kaeng Khoi Junction, Pang Asoke and Khok Sa-ad

ONLY need land exappropriation for 10% since it built on the railway right of the way - removing those slum dwellers done by SRT

the real bone of contention is the signal system since Thai - China railway and Thai - Japan must share the track from Bangsue Central to Ban Phachi Junction - still inconclusive whether to use either Chinese signal system or Japanese signal system even though OTP want to use European system to allow both Chinese and Japanese to share the same tracks. Still need to make a settlement with Japan by the end of August 2015.

If Japanese still disagree, MoT has no choice but to start the Thai- China project at Chiang Rak while Thai - Japan railway starting at Bangsue Central along Northern railway all the way to Chiang Mai at 672 km 

For Bangsue Central - Nong Khai line will invest 330,000 million Baht - 220,000 Million Baht for construction - 110,000 million Baht for rolling stock and maintenance - the bidding will be started after the cabinet resolution on 10 September 2015


For the special bidding section - 70% will be handled by registered Thai contractors while 30% which involved with tunnel and bridges will be handled by Chinese contractors 
the first 2 contractors will be handled from Bangsue central to Kaeng Khoi (133 km) and Khaeng Khoi to Khorat (138.5 km) - with sign the contract on 20 october 2015 before laying the corner stone on 23 October at Kaeng Khoi Junction - if it failed to meet this target, December 2015 is the alternative to be done within 2 year and 6 month and opened in mid 2018

For the first contract, CRC + CRCC which are contractors from China will make a consortium with Thai contractors to handle from Bangsue central to Kaeng Khoi (133 km) 
On the other hand, CRC + CREC which are contractors from China will make a consortium with Thai contractors to handle Khaeng Khoi to Khorat (138.5 km) 
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1439374273


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## Codename B

*Bang Sue Grand Station*





















CNXWORLD said:


> สถานีกลางบางซื่อ
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## Codename B

*B3.4 trillion (USD95.4 billion) for projects over 8 years*
18 Aug 2015 at 07:31 WRITER: WICHIT CHANTANUSORNSIRI

*The government has earmarked 3.38 trillion baht for eight years' worth of infrastructure projects, says Deputy Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith.*

Railways have captured the largest portion of the budget through 2022, with standard gauge high-speed trains claiming 36%, double-track rail 17% and electric trains 18%.

Other projects involve road construction, waterways and air transport.

Half the investment budget will be funded by borrowing, and the government is likely to let the private sector take part in a public-private partnership (PPP) scheme to lower public debt, Mr Arkhom said.

The Public Debt Management Office (PDMO) last week said Thailand's ratio of public debt to GDP would peak at an estimated 53% in 2019 -- assuming the government's infrastructure investment and borrowings amount to 300-400 billion baht a year -- before edging down to 52% in 2020.

Under the eight-year infrastructure plan, the PDMO will borrow 638 billion baht in the next fiscal year starting Oct 1 to fund projects.

Mr Arkhom said the government would expedite auctions for the Yellow and Pink electric train lines this year.

The Purple Line from Bangkok to Nonthaburi is scheduled to start test runs in December and enter service early next year, while an extension of the current Blue Line -- now under construction -- is set to begin operating in 2019.

An auction for a motorway linking Pattaya and Map Ta Phut will take place this year, while two other motorways -- Ayutthaya-Nakhon Ratchasima and Nonthaburi-Kanchanaburi -- will go to auction this year at the earliest.

The 96-kilometre Bang Yai-Kanchanaburi road will cost 55.6 billion baht, with 50.2 billion earmarked for construction and 5.42 billion for land expropriation; the 196-km Bang Pa-in-Nakhon Ratchasima route will cost 84.6 billion, with 78 billion for construction and 6.6 billion for expropriation; and the 32-km Pattaya-Map Ta Phut road will cost 20.2 billion, with 14.2 billion for construction and 6 billion for expropriation.

Separately, the Comptroller General's Department estimates the investment budget for government and state enterprises at 800 billion baht for fiscal 2016, about 100 billion more than in fiscal 2015. The Highways Department alone will be assigned a budget of 73 billion baht for next fiscal year, up 40%.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/news/658940/b3-4-trillion-for-projects-over-8-years


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## tonii

From the latest news. The project face a big obstacle when the Chinese train might not be able to share track with Japanese Shinkansen (which is the original intention by Thai gov, as there is bottleneck between Chiangrak Noi and Bangsue). This might give them no choice but to push away the terminal station for Chinese one to start at Chiangrak Noi instead of Bangsue. There is a huge debate in thai forum as it might not be feasible, since forcing the people to travel that far just to get on Chinese train (eastern line) could potentially kill the ridership. 

* NOTE : Chiangrak Noi station is located in Ayudthaya province which is outside of bangkok. Even further than Don mueang (secondary airport)


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## Wisarut

tonii said:


> From the latest news. The project face a big obstacle when the Chinese train might not be able to share track with Japanese Shinkansen (which is the original intention by Thai gov, as there is bottleneck between Chiangrak Noi and Bangsue). This might give them no choice but to push away the terminal station for Chinese one to start at Chiangrak Noi instead of Bangsue. There is a huge debate in thai forum as it might not be feasible, since forcing the people to travel that far just to get on Chinese train (eastern line) could potentially kill the ridership.
> 
> * NOTE : Chiangrak Noi station is located in Ayudthaya province which is outside of bangkok. Even further than Don mueang (secondary airport)


Need political adroit and shrew to deal with the belligerent 2 powers (Chinese vs Japanese) as the way to allow the track sharing rather than setting up the new center at Chiang Rak Noy (Southern limit of Ayutthaya or the Northern limit of Pathum Thani - north of Chiang Rak)


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## hans280

tonii said:


> From the latest news. The project face a big obstacle when the Chinese train might not be able to share track with Japanese Shinkansen (which is the original intention by Thai gov, as there is bottleneck between Chiangrak Noi and Bangsue).


What is the problem, do you know? As far as I'm aware the Japanese Shinkansen trains use the standard track gauge of 1435mm - same as China. Will the Japanese railway construction in Thailand be of the old Japanese narrow 1067mm gauge design? That sounds highly inoptimal to me. Or is the problem related to electricity, signalling or something else?


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## tonii

hans280 said:


> What is the problem, do you know? As far as I'm aware the Japanese Shinkansen trains use the standard track gauge of 1435mm - same as China. Will the Japanese railway construction in Thailand be of the old Japanese narrow 1067mm gauge design? That sounds highly inoptimal to me. Or is the problem related to electricity, signalling or something else?


It's not the problem with the track (as both are using the same standard gauge 1.435 meters). But the Japanese mention that sharing another system with Shinkansen would impact the safety. Yet, there is still no information why it's such the case. Some people start the be concerned that China/Japan relationship might play the part in this.

Currently there is only enough space for 2 pairs of standard gauge between Chiang Rak Noy and Bangsue grand station. One is already occupied by Airport Rail Link system which will link between Bangsue grand station and Don Mueang airport. And another one that is yet to be decided. The government original plan was to share these 2 pairs with all HSR that bound from Bangsue grand station. As they didn't expect this problem to happen.

And we don't even think about HSR Southern line which have to share the same track as well (and potentially it might use different system from Chinese and Japanese one)...


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## Wisarut

hans280 said:


> What is the problem, do you know? As far as I'm aware the Japanese Shinkansen trains use the standard track gauge of 1435mm - same as China. Will the Japanese railway construction in Thailand be of the old Japanese narrow 1067mm gauge design? That sounds highly inoptimal to me. Or is the problem related to electricity, signalling or something else?


There are a lot more hidden problems which you may never recognize:
1. Chinese engineers keep telling Thai engineers and architects to cut Donmueang station out of the list of stations for Thai - China railway due to the animosity toward Donmueang station of red line commuter which will turn into Donmueang central once Thai - Japanese railway from Bangsue Central to Chiang Mai via Phitsanuloke

2. Chinese engineers giving Thai railway men a lot of headache when they never want Thai - China railway to be too closed to Natural Gas and Oil pipelines of PTT which has been constructed on the railway land long time ago by using the Chinese standard argument -> 5 meter away from railway line while Thai Railway follows the Japanese standard of allowing PTT to construct of the Natural Gas and Oil pipelines at 4.6 meter from the railway tracks.


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## tonii

Wisarut said:


> Need political adroit and shrew to deal with the belligerent 2 powers (Chinese vs Japanese) as the way to allow the track sharing rather than setting up the new center at Chiang Rak Noy (Southern limit of Ayutthaya or the Northern limit of Pathum Thani - north of Chiang Rak)


Exactly. Starting from Chiang Rak Noy station would totally kill the ridership for Chinese (eastern) line as it's too far to go to. Even if there is the commuter that link directly between Bangsue and Chiang Rak Noy, but having Don Mueang airport sit in the middle will totally drag people into plane rather than train. Who in the right mind will design train terminal station to be even further than the airport. Crazy.

Personally, if it's really the problem and China / Japan won't get into agreement to share the track (just for the sake of 30 km bounding into the grand station) then we should just cancel it and use someone else who can. It's our people tax money to pay for this, not theirs. Seriously.


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## kunming tiger

you are borrwing their money on favorable terms the taxpayer will foot the bill in the end but without their financial support these projects won;t proceed unless you can find somebody else you can both build and finance the lines and it's an extensive network to boot. 

Should a compromose be worked out? That is stating the obvious.


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## tonii

kunming tiger said:


> you are borrwing their money on favorable terms the taxpayer will foot the bill in the end but without their financial support these projects won;t proceed unless you can find somebody else you can both build and finance the lines and it's an extensive network to boot.
> 
> Should a compromose be worked out? That is stating the obvious.



There is more than enough domestic loan for the project. This does not really rely on that. We can finance ourself. And there are many european countries who show interest on building the line. So technically we dont really need china or japan. It is all about political decision.

Actually what i say is the original plan from previous gov. The junta just change everything and partially rely on chinese/japanes finance just because they dont want to pay for it. Even southern and eastern HSR now become fully Funded by private sector. 

To be fair Im really scare the outcome. As Junta gov choose to go with some of the worse decision. They just hand these 2 lines directly to China and Japan to protect their own interest. And now this decision get back to then. 

However I still do hope they can work this out and not pushing chinese line out off Grand station. As that would be a really stupid idea.


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## Wisarut

kunming tiger said:


> you are borrwing their money on favorable terms the taxpayer will foot the bill in the end but without their financial support these projects won;t proceed unless you can find somebody else you can both build and finance the lines and it's an extensive network to boot.
> 
> Should a compromose be worked out? That is stating the obvious.


If it is not the foreign loan, the domestic loan through saving bonds will help but that would be truly massive loan ever ask from Thai people to pool their hard earning saving to realize such a massive project with something that break a trillion Baht landmark (about the same amount of Thai banknotes circulated in Thailand right now) or more ..... in addition to the way Revenue Dept squeezing the tax money to the last drop. 

Favorable interest rate would something 2% per annum or less ... other than that, the domestic loan to prevent FOREX fluctuation is the other option though even it means to pay higher rate.


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## Codename B

OTP recently held a seminar for the Thai-Chinese HSR Korat - Nong Khai section














































.........................................................................................................









Bua Yai Station









Ban Phai Station









Khon Khaen Station









Udonthani Station









Nong Khai Station

http://koratstartup.com/2015/09/01/สนข-เปิดเวทีสรุป-รถไฟทาง/


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## tonii

Quote from khun codename-B above with more detail.

There are 2 design options

1 - Mixed transport. Maximum speed 200 km/h for passenger train and 120 km/h for fridge train.
2 - Exclusive passenger transport. Maximum speed 300 km/h for passenger train.

The track and geometry construction will cover both options. 

Please note that the initial operation will be mixed transport (as stated in previous news). Until the demand is picked up, then the latter option will be chosen.


----------



## Codename B

*Thai-Chinese HSR - 873 km*

Clip for the Korat - Nongkhai section during the recent seminar


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## Codename B

Summary of Thai High Speed Rail Projects

*Joint Thai-Chinese HSR - 873 km - 200 km/h*
Bangkok - Map Ta Phut - Nongkhai (133 km) - Construction estimated to begin in December

*Joint Thai-Japanese HSR - 672 km - 250 km/h*
Bangkok - Chiang Mai (672 km) - The design study will be completed and presented to cabinet for approval in June 2016

*Private Sector HSR - 405 km - 250 km/h*
Bangkok - Rayong (194 km) - Waiting for EIA - Bidding in 2016
Bangkok - Hua Hin (211 km) - Waiting for EIA - Bidding in 2016

*All lines will be built to handle a speed up to 350 km/h to allow for future upgrades*

For the shared section between Chinese HSR and Japanese Shinkansen (Bangkok - Ban Pachi), the track will use European standard signaling system to allow all trains to use the track.

Red dots are HSR stations


----------



## Wisarut

Japanese going to train Thai people how to run and maintain the High Speed train from Bangsue Central to Chiang Mai
http://news.voicetv.co.th/business/256302.html

Deputy PM Somkid who handle the financial and economic affairs have given an endorsement for both Thai - Japan railway (both High Speed train from Bangsue Central to Chiang Mai and the double tracking from Ban Phu Namron checkpoint to Laem Chabang via the special route as the existing Southern route are full - need to the new railway bridge across Chao Phraya at the Mouth of Chao Phraya river) and Thai - China railway from Bangsue to Nong Khai 
http://news.voicetv.co.th/business/256452.html


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## Codename B

*Thai-Japanese Railway lines projects*

*Electrified Double Track Meter Gauge Rail*
_Under feasibility study_

Bangkok - Kanchanaburi (180 km)
Bangkok - Aranyaphrathet (255 km)
Bangkok - Laem Chabang (139 km)

*High Speed Rail (Shinkansen)*
_Design is finished, currently applying for EIA_

Bangkok - Chiang Mai (672 km)


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## Codename B

*Public Private Partnership Thai High Speed Rail*

Bangkok - Hua Hin (222 km)
Bangkok - Pattaya - Rayong (193.5 km)

For the high-speed train project Bangkok - Pattaya - Rayong and Bangkok - Hua Hin. The lines are now under examination by the Transport Ministry. 
The plan will conclude with the Board of PPP Directors by the end of this year.

http://www.manager.co.th/iBizChannel/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000110531


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## Codename B

*Bang Sue Grand Station*










Concrete pillars can now be seen from the sky.









Credit: khun *Amorn PonJaroen*


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## Codename B

*Premier hopes to see early start to Thailand railway*
By ZHAO YINAN (China Daily)
Updated: 2015-10-10 08:14









Premier Li Keqiang meets with Thai Foreign Minister Don Pramudwinai in Beijing on Friday. [FENG YONGBIN/CHINA DAILY]

*Premier Li Keqiang called for an early start to a Beijing-backed rail project running through Thailand during his meeting with Thai Foreign Minister Don Pramudwinai on Friday.*

Li said railway cooperation is the highlight of Sino-Thai cooperation, which can facilitate Beijing's Road and Belt Initiative to synergize with Thailand's economic development strategy.

"In addition, rail cooperation will also promote cultural and people-to-people exchanges between China and Thailand, as well as exchanges between China and countries in the Indochina Peninsula," Li said.

*"China and Thailand are family."*

The minister, a former Thai ambassador to China, said the Thai government attaches great importance to its relations with China, especially the cooperation in the rail sector. He said the Thai government is glad to see an early start to the construction.

The Chinese and Thai governments have recently agreed to start constructing a 840 km railway connecting Kunming in Yunnan province with Thailand's Nong Khai province, Bangkok, and Rayong province by the end of this year.

Thai Deputy Prime Minister Tanasak Patimapragorn said during the China-ASEAN Expo in the southern Chinese city of Nanning in September that the upcoming railway would be an important mode of transport for goods and people between China and Thailand.

The deputy prime minister said the line is expected to fuel economic development of Thailand and its neighboring countries, and Chinese cargo can also be more conveniently transferred to other parts of Asia, Africa and Europe through Thailand, which can help Chinese companies reduce their transportation costs.

According to China Railway Construction Corp, the round-trip fares from Kunming to Bangkok will be around 700 yuan ($115), between half and one-third of the airfare, and the freight fees are equivalent to one-ninth of the cost by air, Xinhua News Agency reported.

Thailand, the second largest ASEAN economy, currently has about 360 km of dual-track rails and is planning to upgrade transportation infrastructure.

Yang Xiuping, secretary-general of the ASEAN-China Center, said the railway will help tourism in Southeast Asia.

Statistics from China Tourism Academy showed 11 million Chinese tourists traveled to Southeast Asia in 2014.

The railway is expected to bring about 2 million more each year.

China is the biggest trade partner of Thailand and its second-largest export destination. Bilateral trade reached $63.4 billion in 2014.

Mechanical products take up half of the total products imported from China, while China buys plastic and rubber products from Thailand.

This year also marks the 40th anniversary of the establishment of bilateral diplomatic ties.

Thailand's GDP is expected to grow by 3 to 4 percent this year, after a dismal 0.7 percent growth in 2014.

During Friday's meeting, Li also spoke highly of Thailand's coordination role in China's relations with the ASEAN countries in the past three years, and he said China is willing to deepen ties with ASEAN countries and maintain regional stability.

Li said the Chinese economy has entered a new normal, and the government should follow the trend and encourage an innovation-driven economy, which will also provide business opportunities for neighboring countries including Thailand.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2015-10/10/content_22147115.htm


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## Wisarut

it would be a great inconsideration for Khun Somkhid for not adding Mahasarakham and Roy Ed into the ilist of the railway from maesod to Mukdahan via phitsanuloke and Khon Kaen - even though MAaesod - Tak - Sukhothai - Phitsanuloke - Phetchabun - Khon Kaen - Kalasin - Mukdahan has a distance of 
815.82 km at 159,773 Million Baht - For the case of Phunamron - Laem Chabang with the new route across Mahachai Line as well as Nam Tok line and Southern line along with Sattahip line with the distance of 475 km at 175000 million Baht (meter gaugue) 
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1444394723
http://www.thansettakij.com/2015/10/09/13006

bring Japanese to joint cargo train scheme from Kanchanaburi to laem Chabang with the new route
http://www.thairath.co.th/clip/26923


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## Codename B

For the PPP High Speed Rail projects, Bangkok - Hua Hin (211 km) 81,136 million baht and Bangkok - Pattaya - Rayong (193.5 km) 152,448 million baht, the design for both lines are now complete, they are now waiting to be approved by EIA and are expecting to be up for bidding in the first half of 2016.

Passenger speed for the Joint thai-chinese line (873 km) has now been upgraded to 200km/h.

For the joint thai-japanese line (672 km), Japan has sent a team to explore the area along the line.


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## Codename B

*Thailand hopes to reach loan terms for 800-km joint venture rail project with China this month*
in Business | October 24, 2015 11:02 am

*The Ministry of Transport will meet the Chinese government for the eighth time next week in Beijing to finalise the planned 800-kilometre long joint venture Thai-Chinese rail project.*

The ministry’s senior officials held high hope that this round of meeting will reach conclusion on loan terms as well as all details concerning the joint venture project.

Deputy transport minister Ormsin Chiwapruek said yesterday that from October 27- 29 of this month, the transport minister will be leading a committee to Beijing to hold talks with Chinese authorities regarding the joint Thai-Chinese rail project.

He said this meeting will be the eighth of such talks and will finalize all the details involved in the planned Nong Khai – Bangkok – Map Taphut rail project.

Preliminary on-site surveys have been carried out by the Chinese officials and the meeting hopes to finally conclude interest rates for the loan that the Chinese government will be granting to Thailand.

Mr Ormsin explained that this point has been the major stumbling block in past negotiations.

The Chinese government had earlier proposed a rate of 2.5% but Thai officials felt that that was too high and proposed a rate not exceeding 2%. Should this round of talks succeed then it is expected that a signing will be planned in the near future, he said.

The Ministry of Transport has set a target for the Thai-Chinese rail project to begin in December of this year. If things go to plan, the construction of the 800 km stretch of the two planned lines from Bangkok – Kaeng Khoi – Nakhon Ratchasima – Nong Khai and from Kaeng Khoi – Map Taphut will begin with the construction of the Chiang Rark Noi station in Ayutthaya province.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/th...nt-venture-rail-project-with-china-this-month


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## Codename B

*Bang Sue Grand Station*



barth said:


> Today...


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## Codename B

^^



marut said:


> *Update สถานีกลางบางซื่อ 1/11/2558*
> ภาพรวมโครงการบริเวณกลางอาคารสถานี
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> https://www.facebook.com/ThaiRailNews
> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.904644156284244.1073741831.887847737963886&type=3


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## Codename B

Implementation of major infrastructure projects will be shorten, if approved by the cabinet. 

Status

Thai-Chinese HSR will begin groundbreaking in December.
Two PPP HSR: Bangkok-Hua Hin and Bangkok-Rayong will be up for bidding next year.
Thai-Japanese HSR: Feasibility and design study will be done in June 2016.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Government poised to fast-track 8 projects*
4 Nov 2015 at 03:25
NEWSPAPER SECTION: NEWS | WRITER: PATSARA JIKKHAM & AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK

*Implementation of the projects, which the cabinet hopes to speed up prior to the bidding process, could be shortened from 22 months to nine months, Mr Somkid said.*

He said the projects designated for next year and 2017 are worth 347 billion baht. They are the Pink Line; the Yellow Line; the Blue Line (Bang Sue-Tha Phra); Bang Pa-in-Nakhon Ratchasima motorway; Bang Yai-Kanchanaburi motorway; a garbage disposal plant in Nonthaburi; garbage disposal facilities in Nakhon Ratchasima; and a marine commerce centre.

Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith said the ministry is pushing for the cabinet to include two high-speed train routes worth 246 billion baht in the PPP fast-track programme.

The two routes -- Bangkok-Hua Hin and Bangkok-Rayong -- will be shortened from two years to nine months if they are approved by the cabinet, he said.

He said some 20 investment projects worth 1.79 trillion baht that need swift implementation for next year are being tweaked before they are submitted to the cabinet.

Meanwhile, Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha stressed an infrastructure investment project with China would proceed amid concerns the railway deal with China is dragging on.

He said there was constant progress in talks with Beijing over the dual-track Nong Khai-Rayong rail scheme and both sides were negotiating to overcome obstacles which include the project loan.

Gen Prayut said "symbolic" construction of the rail project would proceed to mark the 40th anniversary of Thai-Chinese bilateral ties while the negotiations continue. There are eight rounds of negotiations between Thailand and China for the Thai-China railway project will connect Nong Khai to Bangkok to Map Ta Phut.

Gen Prayut said rail projects with Japan would also proceed. He defended the Ministry of Transport's proposal for him to use special powers under Section 44 of the interim charter to fast-track projects.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/753440/government-poised-to-fast-track-8-projects


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## Wisarut

SamuraiBlue said:


> Who is going to pay for this cockamamie scheme?
> 
> Beijing?
> 
> If so then I believe Malaysia and Singapore should stop all plans and have the Chinese build it for them free of charge.


Loan from China + domestic loans + mutual funds for infrastructure


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## kunming tiger

SamuraiBlue said:


> Who is going to pay for this cockamamie scheme?
> 
> Beijing?
> 
> If so then I believe Malaysia and Singapore should stop all plans and have the Chinese build it for them free of charge.


 What is your issue exactly with the financial side? As long as you are not paying for it yourself exactly who finaces it and how are not your concern.

To answer your question the Chinese are contributing a significant amount of the cost of the project that makes it viable in the first place.

Your second suggestion isnt as silly as it seems,the Chinese are about the only ones with the capital, knowledge, technology and ambition to do exactly that the Singapore/KL link would be a piece of cake compared to the other lines they are contemplating building. 

This is a done deal so get over it or stage a public demonstration otherwise move forward like the rest of us.

“ small minded people laugh at the grand schemes of others because that's what small people do"

Out of the three proposed lines the eastern line looks to be the least likely or last line to be realized.


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## Wisarut

kunming tiger said:


> Out of the three proposed lines the eastern line looks to be the least likely or last line to be realized.


the mutual distrust between Chinese government and Vietnamese government are the reason.


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## SamuraiBlue

Wisarut said:


> Loan from China + domestic loans + mutual funds for infrastructure


Then I guess not even half would go beyond paper. There are no plans for the Malay-Singapore line to go further north. Vietnam as you posted is never going to agree in connecting with PRC. Myanmar doesn't have the money and is going through disputed region. Both Laos and Cambodia doesn't really have the money either. 

The east to west freight line has much more possibility in which each nation can take commission from the cargo passing through which will do more for their respected economy.


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## Wisarut

SamuraiBlue said:


> Then I guess not even half would go beyond paper. There are no plans for the Malay-Singapore line to go further north. Vietnam as you posted is never going to agree in connecting with PRC. Myanmar doesn't have the money and is going through disputed region. Both Laos and Cambodia doesn't really have the money either.
> 
> The east to west freight line has much more possibility in which each nation can take commission from the cargo passing through which will do more for their respected economy.












the Southern line will be started from Bangsue Central to Hua Hin ... but it is up to Thai private sector + foreign partners to do the down and dirty jobs on Railway land along the Southern line as shown here:

http://thaihispeedtrain.com/huahin/about2.php









For the issue related to Thai - Japan railway, here is the line to be chosen:

Following from Ban Phu Namron checkpoint to Ban Kao station (upgraded from stop) and then following Namtok Line all the way to Na Karn station (upgraded from stop) before going through the new line to Tha Muang Container yard (station upgraded from stop) before following Namtok line To Nong Pladuk Junction and following the existing Southern line to Tha Chalaeb before following the new line to meet with Mahachai line at Phrom Daen station (upgraded from stop) before following the new line to pass the mount of Sanphasamit canal before going across Chao Phraya river before following the new line to Bang Pakong and reaching Sattahip line at Phan Thong station to Sriracha and Laem Chabang branch line to Laem Chabang 
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1429674831
http://manager.co.th/Home/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000046115
https://www.facebook.com/Homebuyers...3093136824869/633092846824898/?type=1&theater


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## Sunfuns

SamuraiBlue said:


> Then I guess not even half would go beyond paper. There are no plans for the Malay-Singapore line to go further north. Vietnam as you posted is never going to agree in connecting with PRC. Myanmar doesn't have the money and is going through disputed region. Both Laos and Cambodia doesn't really have the money either.
> 
> The east to west freight line has much more possibility in which each nation can take commission from the cargo passing through which will do more for their respected economy.


I don't think your pessimism is fully warranted. While I also don't think all of this will be built (particularly in Vietnam) the central route is already almost in construction via Laos and northern Thailand. Sure, not really a HS line, but good enough for the current needs.


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## Codename B

Bangkok-Rayong (194km) and Bangkok-Hua Hin (211km) HSR will be up for bidding in third quarter of 2016.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


*Ministry fast-tracks 2 rail routes*
29 Dec 2015 at 03:30 | WRITER: AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK

*The Transport Ministry is fast-tracking two high-speed train routes under the public-private partnership (PPP) programme.* 

They are the 94.7-billion-baht Bangkok-Hua Hin route and 152.5-billion-baht Bangkok-Pattaya-Rayong route. 

Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith said he has instructed the State Railway of Thailand (SRT) to speed up the study on the investment of the two high-speed train lines to comply with the Private Investments in State Undertakings Act. 

The two projects will be put on the PPP fast track for urgent investment next year, he said.

"The details of the investment model will be stipulated by the PPP committee," the minister said.

"But at this stage, both Thai and foreign private operators will be allowed to invest."

SRT governor Wuthichart Kalyanamitra said a consultancy firm will send an investment study on the two lines to the SRT by February.

The Transport Ministry will consider it before forwarding it to the State Enterprises Policy Commission, or the superboard, and the PPP committee for further deliberation, he said.

"The study of two projects is aimed to be sent to the PPP committee by the first quarter of next year, or the second quarter at the latest," said Mr Wuthichart.

He added that the construction bids for the two routes could be launched in the third quarter.

The contractors will be sought next year, the governor said.

After the investment costs for the two projects are concluded, work will be done on stipulating the investment ratio between the private and state sectors. 

Private firms will also be asked which work they are interested in, such as civil work, construction, train operation and property development along the rail lines, Mr Wuthichart said.

Thai Beverage Plc has shown an interest in investing in the 211km Bangkok-Hua Hin route.

Charoen Pokphand Group, the country's largest agro-industrial and food conglomorate, meanwhile, is willing to invest in the 194km Bangkok-Pattaya-Rayong route.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/809520/ministry-fast-tracks-2-rail-routes


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## sdery

> What is your issue exactly with the financial side? As long as you are not paying for it yourself exactly who finances it and how are not your concern.
> 
> To answer your question the Chinese are contributing a significant amount of the cost of the project that makes it viable in the first place.


I would assume that the Chinese government is treating this like any other infrastructure project where the Chinese government backed banks lend to the project but that the local governments have to provide loan guarantees. The risk to the local governments is that if the project goes over budget (a very definite risk) or if they interest rate on the loans is too high then the incoming project revenue might not be enough to pay the principal and interest charges on the loan...and the local government (per the guarantees) would have to pay back the Chinese banks.

In other words, the Chinese are not building these projects for free and there is considerable risk to local governments, especially if they agree to provide loan guarantees.


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## Wisarut

sdery said:


> I would assume that the Chinese government is treating this like any other infrastructure project where the Chinese government backed banks lend to the project but that the local governments have to provide loan guarantees. The risk to the local governments is that if the project goes over budget (a very definite risk) or if they interest rate on the loans is too high then the incoming project revenue might not be enough to pay the principal and interest charges on the loan...and the local government (per the guarantees) would have to pay back the Chinese banks.
> 
> In other words, the Chinese are not building these projects for free and there is considerable risk to local governments, especially if they agree to provide loan guarantees.


the Chinese loan in US Dollars via Chinese EXIM Bank in question has become a bone of contention as Chinese government said 2.5% per annum is what they can offer to Thai government but Thai government (both Bank of Thailand and Ministry of Finance) have pressed the demand to Chinese government that 2.00% per annum is the maximum interest rate Thai government can accept. Initially, Chinese government is going to offer loan in Renminbi but Thai government (both Bank of Thailand and Ministry of Finance) said Renminbi cannot be liquidated as easy as US Dollars.


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## Codename B

*China to drop loan rate for train project - Arkhom*
19 Jan 2016 at 18:37
WRITER: AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK

*China has agreed in principle to reduce the interest rate for loans for its joint rail project with Thailand, Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith said on Tuesday.*

After several rounds of negotiations, China's vice premier promised to slash the rate to 2% from 2.5%.

"In the latest talks with Deputy Prime Minister Somkid Jautripitak, Chinese Vice Premier Wang Yang pledged the 2% interest rate," Mr Arkhom said.

The pledge could become official at the two countries' next meeting, expected in February, at which time the joint venture's structure could be finalised.

The transport and finance ministries are considering increasing China's stake in the project to 70% from the propsed 60%. Mr Arkhom said the issue will be decided before the next meeting.

He said increasing China's investment will not derail the project because the operational plan remains unchanged with China letting Thailand take over all operations after seven years.

The loan issue has played a part in the delay of the Thai-Chinese train scheme as the government repeatedly had urged China to cap the interest rate at 2%.

The project covers the medium-speed train routes from Nong Khai to Map Ta Phut in Rayong and Kaeng Khoi to Bangkok. The two countries expect construction to get underway in May.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/transport/831872/china-to-drop-loan-rate-for-train-project-arkhom


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## Codename B

Progress of Bang Sue Grand Station taken today.










Segment is now being set up.










Credit: _Khun Niphitphong Tangsiriwarangkun_


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## Codename B

*Update from thai news:*

Feasibility study for Public Private Partnership HSR:
*Bangkok - Pattaya - Rayong (194 km)* and *Bangkok - Hua Hin (211 km)* with a speed of 250 km/h will be completed in March.

Afterwards they will be given to the PPP board for approval, where bidding will take place right after.

For the *Thai-Chinese HSR (873 km)*, after the groundbreaking ceremony by laying the foundation on Dec 19, construction for this line will begin in May as planned, after China recently agreed to lower the interest rate from 2.5% to 2%. The next round of negotiation will take place next month in Beijing after the Chinese New Year.

*Thai-Japanese HSR (672 km)* is still waiting for EIA, which is expected to be completed in June. However _Thai-Japanese electrified double track meter gauge (574 km)_ with a speed of 160 km/h is well underway and will begin on January 27.

http://www.posttoday.com/analysis/interview/411637


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## hans280

^^Many thanks for the succinct update. As a foreigner who doesn't read Thai I tend to get lost. There's SUCH a multitude of plans on the table, promoted by Thai/Chinese/Japanese interests; operating passengers-only/freight/mixed; and proposing proper high-speed/200km/h "poor man's HS"/old fashioned 160km/h


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## Codename B

*Push for Bangkok-Rayong rail plan*
THE NATION January 28, 2016 1:00 am

*THE FINANCE Ministry plans to push for the Bt152-billion Bangkok-Rayong high-speed-rail project for consideration under the PPP fast-track scheme as the sixth of 20 planned mega-projects.*

Finance Minister Apisak Tantivorawong said after a meeting of the Public Private Partnerships (PPP) Policy Committee that the panel wanted the project to enter the PPP fast-track process.

Trains would run on the 193.5-kilometre railway at speeds of up to 250km/h. However, the Transport Ministry will have to review whether the project needs participation from the private sector, the types of investment and the route's operation, Apisak said.

"This meeting did not yet finalise the Bangkok-Rayong high-speed-railway construction project, so the committee has asked the Transport Ministry to review its plan for this project and submit it at the next meeting," he said.

The five projects to be moved up are expected to cost about Bt334 billion.

Three are rail projects - the Pink Line's Khae Rai-Minburi section, the Yellow Line's Lat Phrao-Samrong section and the Blue Line's two extensions from Hua Lamphong to Bang Khae and Bang Sue to Tha Phra. 

*Others* 

The other two projects are the Bang Yai-Kanchanaburi and Bang Pa-in-Nakhon Ratchasima motorways.

Some of these projects are at the stage of preparing documents before submitting them to the Cabinet for further consideration. 

The Blue Line extensions are expected to be resubmitted to the PPP Policy Committee in April and proposed to the Cabinet in May.

Apisak, also chairman of the PPP Policy Committee, said the PPP Fast Track scheme would help shorten the consideration of any project |to only eight months from 24 months.

The State Railway of Thailand also reported its plan for the development of railway double-tracking to be divided into two phases. It would spend Bt129 billion on the first phase and Bt200 billion on the second.

The meeting also acknowledged the progress of amending the PPP Act to allow private participation in the government's projects more easily so that they can be moved on faster than before.

According to the amended PPP Act, projects with investment of less than Bt1 billion do not have to |pass through the PPP Policy Committee. 

Those with investment between Bt1 billion and Bt5 billion are also exempt from the committee's consideration if they are not infrastructure projects.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Push-for-Bangkok-Rayong-rail-plan-30277914.html


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## Codename B

Pics by _Chuthaphong Saetang_

Thai-Chinese HSR model at Office of Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning.


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## kunming tiger

SamuraiBlue said:


> Who is going to pay for this cockamamie scheme?
> 
> Beijing?
> 
> If so then I believe Malaysia and Singapore should stop all plans and have the Chinese build it for them free of charge.


 please click on the link below

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1806727


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## kunming tiger

The central and western corridors are U/C . 

Dates of completion

Kunming-Mohan 2020

Kunming -Ruli 2021


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## Codename B

Thai-Chinese HSR speed will now be 250 km/h and focus only on passenger, while cargo will instead be handled by the meter gauge double track line that is currently u/c.



Wisarut said:


> Thai - Japan railway will have both high speed to Chiang Mai and cargo on the existing lines - and so, the case of Thai China railway, the old Thai - China High Speed train of 250 kph will be revived with cargo to be handled by existing meter gauge lines so as to use existing stations without need to need for extra stations to handle cargoes - this is a solution to cut down the cost
> http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1455097471


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## kunming tiger

Perhaps 250 kmph on theThai side nowhere that through Southern Yunnan and Laos.


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## Wisarut

kunming tiger said:


> Perhaps 250 kmph on theThai side nowhere that through Southern Yunnan and Laos.


Yah, as Thai people pressing the demands for that high speed at the affordable prices - demands which should never be disputed


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## Codename B

k.k.jetcar said:


> You don't want to mix high speed rail with other slower forms of rail transport, especially freight, as it defeats the purpose of high speed rail, which is to provide safe, high speed, and reliable intercity transport that is competitive with air travel. Also, running high speed trains on non grade separated track is to be avoided, as it increases risks of accidents, unless you want to run the trains no faster than current trains (120km/h?)


The section that will be shared is not local or freight trains track, but the Thai-Chinese high-speed rail track route.

Thailand believes part of the high-speed rail track from Bang Sue in Bangkok to Ban Phachi in Ayutthaya can share the same rail route with Thai-Chinese high-speed rail track, but Japan thinks not. 

Japan suggested the construction of a separate track, which increased the project's cost as a result.

Further talks to discuss the project will take place on June 20.

_The section going north._


----------



## Codename B

Construction of Thai-Chinese railway project to get started in August or September

*BANGKOK, 16 May 2016 (NNT) - Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith announced that the 10th meeting of a joint committee for a Thai-Chinese railway cooperation project went smoothly.*

Thailand will be responsible for the project’s investment capital and China will consider reducing construction and rail system costs while maintaining safety standards and suitability details of which will be resolved within one week.

The construction is divided into two parts: the construction of infrastructure and rail system and that of a high-speed train. The construction is expected to get started within August or September.

http://thainews.prd.go.th/CenterWeb/NewsEN/NewsDetail?NT01_NewsID=WNECO5905140010015


*THAILAND WILL go ahead with the Sino-Thai railway project, work on which is expected to start in September this year after both countries' officials reached an agreement at their 10th meeting in Beijing on Wednesday and Thursday.* 

The move followed the agreement in principle on March 23 in Hainan by the leaders of the two countries on government-to-government cooperation by which Thailand would solely invest in the project and start construction of the railway track for the Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima section first.

"Thailand will invest in the whole project according to the agreement by the two nations' leaders," said Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith. 

He said the committees of both nations would have more discussions on the project's investment value following a Thai request to the Chinese side to revise down costs of civil engineering work and the electrical train system. The cost revision would take into account safety standards, he added.

"The Chinese side will conclude this matter within one week," said Arkhom.

The Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima section is about 271.5 kilometres in length, as part of the 873km full project, which will run from Nong Khai to Bangkok and then to Laem Chabang and is expected to cost more than Bt500 billion. 

Arkhom said the project would obtain the engineering procurement and construction model, but would be divided into two parts - civil engineering works, and rolling stock and signalling system.

He said the civil engineering work would be the responsibility of the Thai side and the government would seek participation of Thai contractors. The work might be divided into four or five parts in order to speed up construction. The government might start construction first of the section that has the fewest problems such as the Korat-Pak Chong section, or the section in Ban Phachi, Ayutthaya.

The Chinese side would be responsible for the rolling stock and signalling system as well as drawings for the construction, said Arkhom. The Chinese government would select China's state-owned enterprises with high quality standard after agreement with the Thai side.

Arkhom said the Thai side would also operate the high-speed trains by setting up a train operator with train operation and manpower training support provided by the Chinese side.

The Thai side will also seek funding for the project. The country is willing to consider loans offered by China to procure the rolling stocks system from it. However, the cost and conditions of the loan would have to be acceptable. 

"The two sides agreed to set a time framework of the civil engineering construction as first phase within August or September," said Arkhom. 

*"We expect the designs to take about 60 days," he said, adding the next meeting was scheduled for June to finalise the framework of cooperation between Thai and Chinese governments on the details of the railway project. *

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Thai-Chinese-train-project-back-on-track-30285927.html


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## k.k.jetcar

Well, in that case, it would be "too many cooks spoiling the broth". You would have too many issues of compatibility, because both countries want to install their own systems. When something goes wrong, there are too many issues of liability, and when you are talking about the amount of money involved in these types of projects, something like an accident occurring could have far reaching implications, not just domestically, but internationally.


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## tjrgx

k.k.jetcar said:


> Well, in that case, it would be "too many cooks spoiling the broth". You would have too many issues of compatibility, because both countries want to install their own systems. When something goes wrong, there are too many issues of liability, and when you are talking about the amount of money involved in these types of projects, something like an accident occurring could have far reaching implications, not just domestically, but internationally.


That's a problem. Two standards for HSR run parallel in Thailand and they are not compatible with each other....


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## ddes

Why don't Thailand propose to the Japanese to build a system like the one in Taiwan? The signaling would be the same, but keep the line separate from the Chinese one.


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## Wisarut

ddes said:


> Why don't Thailand propose to the Japanese to build a system like the one in Taiwan? The signaling would be the same, but keep the line separate from the Chinese one.


This is the way Thailand is trying to get the best deals from both Chinese government and Japanese government, clear and simple


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## Wisarut

BTW, Chinese columnist has come up with assessment on Thai - China Railway after Big Too (PM Prayut) has decided to start the section from Bangsue Central to Nakhon Ratchasima with the total distance of 250 km with max speed of 250 kph financed by domestic loan (definitely government Bonds and mutual funds) at 170,000 Million Baht since Thailand cannot stand with the Chinese's study result that demand 190,000 Million Baht investment (including 800 Baht daily wage for Chinese workers while Thai version would use 300 Baht daily wage) ... along with the interest rates on loan from Chinese EXIM Bank at 2.5% since Thailand has pressed the demand for 2% annual interest rate on loan and the controversies on the commercial developments along the route as almost all sections along the route (except the newly appropriated land) belongs to SRT.

Even though Thailand accepts Chinese technology on High Speed train along with Chinese contractors for the line to Khorat, there is no clear point when the section on Khorat to Nong Khai will be implemented. Worse, Japanese government has offered the loan for Thai - Japanese railway (Bangsue Central - Phitsanuloke - Chiang Mai) at 1% annual interest rate, the main reason why Thailand has pressed such a low interest rate on loan at the first place. 

Chinese columnist said Japanese loan is actually costing more than Chinese loan at the long run despite of lower interest rate since Loan in Yen denomination will be more appreciated by FOREX fluctuation than Chinese loan which have exchange rate under control while insisting that the regular rate on loan from Chinese EXIM Bank is 3% a year while the friendship rate is 2.5% a year. Therefore, Thai government's request for the loan at 2% annual rate is totally unfair to Chinese government and should never set an example to other countries who beg for Chinese loan to follow. The 2% annual rate for Indonesian High Speed train is just an aid for Indonesian government to implement Jakarta - Bundung high speed train, not a commercial rate. 

Chinese columnist even insists that since Thai - China railway has been initiated by Chinese government so the interest rates at the market rate of 2.5-3% along with commercial development along the railway line to pay off the debts are fully justified. 

Note: Mainland Chinese government has failed to learn that almost all Foreign loans by Thai government have become securitized loan - Thai government is going to pay back the loan and interests at the fixed exchange rates which both Thailand and creditors have agreed with. 
On the other hand, Chinese government should learn about the sensitive issue of the land along the railway line. Commercialization of the railway land without consent from Thai people on the certain rates of land leasing mean Chinese government has declared WAR against Thai people. 

http://onebelt.net/bencandy.php?fid=4&id=330


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## tjrgx

Wisarut said:


> On the other hand, Chinese government should learn about the sensitive issue of the land along the railway line. Commercialization of the railway land without consent from Thai people on the certain rates of land leasing mean Chinese government has declared WAR against Thai people.
> 
> http://onebelt.net/bencandy.php?fid=4&id=330



Isn't China side had discussed commercialization of the railway land with Thai side already? Thai side didn't agree, so it is off the table. What do you mean "Commercialization of the railway land without consent from Thai people" means "has declared WAR against Thai people" ?? Isn't China has been consulting Thai side all along? Or you mean Thai negotiators don't represent the interest of Thai people? It was merely an option in a long negotiation, so when Thai said it is not OK, that should be the end of it and move on... So please don't employ such harsh rhetoric e.g. "declared WAR against Thai people"...

On a lighter note, I think China columnist is wrong on the loan issue, China ExIm offers US dollar loan, not RMB loan. China ExIm wanted to offer RMB loan at much lower interest rate to Thai but got rejected since Thai side thought future transaction cost is too high (RMB is not fully convertible yet)


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## tjrgx

ddes said:


> Why don't Thailand propose to the Japanese to build a system like the one in Taiwan? The signaling would be the same, but keep the line separate from the Chinese one.


Taiwan HSR use Siemens/Japan hybrid signaling system and has some problems lately...


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## George W. Bush

What does "commercialization of the railway land" even mean? The only places of interest for commercialization are the railway stations and immediate surroundings. That's not really a large area, so why is this such a sensitive issue?


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## Wisarut

tjrgx said:


> Isn't China side had discussed commercialization of the railway land with Thai side already? Thai side didn't agree, so it is off the table. What do you mean "Commercialization of the railway land without consent from Thai people" means "has declared WAR against Thai people" ?? Isn't China has been consulting Thai side all along? Or you mean Thai negotiators don't represent the interest of Thai people? It was merely an option in a long negotiation, so when Thai said it is not OK, that should be the end of it and move on... So please don't employ such harsh rhetoric e.g. "declared WAR against Thai people"...
> 
> On a lighter note, I think China columnist is wrong on the loan issue, China ExIm offers US dollar loan, not RMB loan. China ExIm wanted to offer RMB loan at much lower interest rate to Thai but got rejected since Thai side thought future transaction cost is too high (RMB is not fully convertible yet)


For the issue of loan, the reason why Thai government has chosen US Dollar denomination is due to the fact that it is Bank of Thailand's regulation that the foreign loan should be in the fully convertible currency. If Renminbi has been fully convertible, Thai government would certainly taking a serious consideration on loan in RMB denomination.



George W. Bush said:


> What does "commercialization of the railway land" even mean? The only places of interest for commercialization are the railway stations and immediate surroundings. That's not really a large area, so why is this such a sensitive issue?



For the issue of commercial development of land along the railway line, it is necessary to draw the CLEAR lines that which section of railway land can be commercially developed without invoking a controversy and which section has been forbidden from commercial development as it is the reserved land for double tracking or other railway's necessaries including housing for workers and officers. 

For the width SRT land strip, the railway land will be 40 meter wide (less than the way Chinese railway have dictated to 50 meter wide land strip) with exception on the area around the station which is about 200-300 meter wide though. 

The land beyond the SRT land strips and the areas around railway stations belong to the local landlords so it is necessary for Chinese government and Chinese investors to negotiate with those landlords FIRST or better settle in Industrial estates instead for some certain investment. JV with local real estate companies would help. For those well to do, just purchase condo with the city area would work as many stations for Thai - China railway are within the urban areas or the edge of the city limits.


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## tjrgx

Wisarut said:


> The land beyond the SRT land strips and the areas around railway stations belong to the local landlords so it is necessary for Chinese government and Chinese investors to negotiate with those landlords FIRST or better settle in Industrial estates instead for some certain investment. JV with local real estate companies would help. For those well to do, just purchase condo with the city area would work as many stations for Thai - China railway are within the urban areas or the edge of the city limits.


What was the China position then? ask Thai gov to buy/confiscate the land strips and give it to China property developers? I don't think China gov has a role to get involved in negotiating with those landlords. If you want this scheme to be viable, this can only be B2B model, as you said, form a JV with locals to co-develop.... 

The whole thing is confusing... China want to be a stakeholder or loan provider? if the former, it makes sense for them to develop these area to compensate the railway cost. I assume China is the later. Then they shouldn't worry if the railway will turn profitable or not, unless they worry Thai side won't keep good on repaying the loan so China has to raise other revenue to cover the possible loss in advance...

Thai side should be more motivated than China to develop these areas. Only a few HSRs around the world will be turn profitable, unless you count the property appreciation in the surrounding area. Thai railway authority should be the one teaming up with local developers to build department stores and other amenities to cover the railway cost...


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## George W. Bush

I still don't get it. A HSR route isn't like a (Thai-style) highway where you can develop the land along the road because it is fully accessible by car. A HSR train will just pass by and only stop at railway stations. Why should that make land along the route commercially more interesting?


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## tjrgx

George W. Bush said:


> I still don't get it. A HSR route isn't like a (Thai-style) highway where you can develop the land along the road because it is fully accessible by car. A HSR train will just pass by and only stop at railway stations. Why should that make land along the route commercially more interesting?


I think that depends on the station density. If they are dense enough, then developing the land along the route is commercially viable...


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## tjrgx

tjrgx said:


> What was the China position then? ask Thai gov to buy/confiscate the land strips and give it to China property developers? I don't think China gov has a role to get involved in negotiating with those landlords. If you want this scheme to be viable, this can only be B2B model, as you said, form a JV with locals to co-develop....
> 
> The whole thing is confusing... China want to be a stakeholder or loan provider? if the former, it makes sense for them to develop these area to compensate the railway cost. I assume China is the later. Then they shouldn't worry if the railway will turn profitable or not, unless they worry Thai side won't keep good on repaying the loan so China has to raise other revenue to cover the possible loss in advance...
> 
> Thai side should be more motivated than China to develop these areas. Only a few HSRs around the world will be turn profitable, unless you count the property appreciation in the surrounding area. Thai railway authority should be the one teaming up with local developers to build department stores and other amenities to cover the railway cost...


Some final thoughts on this:

1. Interest rate. I know it became a point of contention when Thai media compare 2% in Indonesia case to 2.5% in Thai one. I understand that was part of the negotiation. But still simple comparison lacks nuance. China side is a stakeholder and operator in a JV with local Indonesian SOE, so they have certain control over the project, that means risk premium on the loan is lower. It is not favorable to compare rates across the board, just as you can't simply compare 1% japanese loan has offered (is this accurate number?) with 0.1% (50 years, 15 year grace period) in India HSR case...

2. Standards. It seems Japan and China will build HSRs with different standards. Chinese standard is compatible with European one, while Japanese one is higher and more strict. Japan's unwillness to share tracks is less to do with the animosity to China but more to do with compatibility and safety concerns. Whose fault will be if something goes wrong, Japan's signaling system or China's rolling stock? If Thai only want to have these 2 HSR lines it is OK to have two standards. If Thai want to have a HSR network then it is important to have a unified standard so Thai can have more rolling stock choices and network can be inter-connected. (Actually during the recent EU-Japan EPA talk, EU side are constantly asking Japan to lower its tech barrier so EU firms can compete with local firms in Japan's domestic market)


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## Wisarut

tjrgx said:


> What was the China position then? ask Thai gov to buy/confiscate the land strips and give it to China property developers? I don't think China gov has a role to get involved in negotiating with those landlords. If you want this scheme to be viable, this can only be B2B model, as you said, form a JV with locals to co-develop....
> 
> The whole thing is confusing... China want to be a stakeholder or loan provider? if the former, it makes sense for them to develop these area to compensate the railway cost. I assume China is the later. Then they shouldn't worry if the railway will turn profitable or not, unless they worry Thai side won't keep good on repaying the loan so China has to raise other revenue to cover the possible loss in advance...
> 
> Thai side should be more motivated than China to develop these areas. Only a few HSRs around the world will be turn profitable, unless you count the property appreciation in the surrounding area. Thai railway authority should be the one teaming up with local developers to build department stores and other amenities to cover the railway cost...


Investors can only leasing SRT land for commercial development - for the areas neighbor to SRT land, esp in urban areas, take a look at this before embarking investments:

To prevent any controversies, take a look at this to get some thought which can be applied 

1) How a foreigner can buy real estate in Thailand - Yes indeed, foreigners can certainly invest in the Thai property market
http://www.ajarn.com/blogs/neil-mcdonough/how-a-foreigner-can-buy-real-estate-in-thailand/

2) Can Foreigners Own Property in Thailand?
http://property.thaivisa.com/can-foreigners-property-thailand/

3) Buying Land - Thailand Property
http://www.siam-legal.com/realestate/thailand-buying-land.php

There is an anecdote from Thai editorial cartoonist during the early day economic boom in early 1990's that



> Those pessimists would think that when investors are shopping around the land that force Thai people to become landless mass while those optimists would think they can travel to foreign land without the need to take international flight or go across the border.



Now, Thai government and Chinese government has agreed with the total price tag at 189,999 Million Baht before signing the revised Framework of Cooperation (FOC) - down from 220,000 Million Baht according to Chinese government's suggestion 
BTW, 170,000 Million Baht has not taken Ban Phachi section into account though. The cut of 30,000 Million Baht is due to the whole investment by Thai government so it has to use Thai prices are a rule along with the cut of unnecessary stations including 

1) Ban Phachi (may be constructed once Thai - Japanese railway have been signed) 
2) Kaeng Khoi (construction once the line will be branched out along Klong 19 Bypass and Aranyaprathet Line to Chachoengsao)
3) Khok Sa-ad (no need for this station) 

ONLY Bangsue Central (new terminus for Bangkok), Ayutthaya (km 71 from Bangkok terminus at Hua Lamphong), Saraburi (km 116 from Bangkok terminus at Hua Lamphong), Pak Chong (km 183 from Bangkok terminus at Hua Lamphong) and Nakhon Ratchasima (km 264 from Bangkok terminus at Hua Lamphong) will be constructed as High Speed train stations 

There will be a maintenance center at Chiang Rak Noy station (km 56 from Bangkok terminus at Hua Lamphong) and making a move on the section from Bangsue Central to Ban Phachi to avoid PTT Pipelines and Lam Takhong reservoir 

Thai - China High Speed train will start at the 3 km Klang Dong - Pang Asok section in Dong Phraya Yen as a pilot section with a price tag on this section at 500 Million Baht - started in September 2016 

the detailed design must be done within 60 days - Thai government will basic infrastructure using Thai contractors to handle 5 sections, start the construction in August - September 2016. 
Chinese government will handle the High Speed train system and rolling stocks using Chinese state enterprises which have experiences on High Speed train to be picked by Thai government

There will be a JV companies to handle traffic with Chinese contribution on administration, training, and human resource developments for the early years 

For financial resources, Thai government is going to issue bonds and mutual funds to finance this project while seeking Chinese loan to pay for the High Speed train system and rolling stocks, if Chinese government agree with 2% annual interest rates on loan to purchase and install High Speed train system and rolling stocks. 

REF: http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1465184306

Those Khorat people get so excited with Thai - China High Speed train from Bangsue Central to Khorat
http://koratstartup.com/2016/06/06/hst-nak-bkk/

Ajarn Samart (Democrat man who graduated from Tokyo Institute of Technology after graduating from Chiang Mai University) gone mad after learning about the cost overrun on Thai - Japan railway from Bangsue Central to Chiang Mai via Nakhon Sawan and Phitsanuloke - 51% more expensive that even Yinglux version => as the cost to implement the system gone up from 387,821 Million Baht to 530,000 Million Baht. However, Ajarn Samart has failed to learn that Japanese have to come up with such a high price for a good reason - Japanese government FLATLY REFUSE to share tracks with Thai - China railway so they have to add the extra cost for separated tracks .... this is something OTP has to learn very hard way since they never take this issue into account before. 
https://www.yaklai.com/news/politic/samart-point-hi-speed-train-expensive/
http://www.matichon.co.th/news/162819


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## George W. Bush

tjrgx said:


> I think that depends on the station density. If they are dense enough, then developing the land along the route is commercially viable...


HSR is not a metro line, it will neither have high station density (otherwise it wouldn't be HSR) nor a mass commuter transport function (at least not in Thailand, in a foreseeable future). Why should somebody be interested in building houses, retail space or offices on land along a HSR route many kilometers outside the station area (only for the reason there being a HSR track)? It's a question I already asked before but nobody could ever explain it in an even mildly convincing way. To me it's almost equally a strange idea as if wanting to "develop" land along flight routes in between airports.


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## ddes

George W. Bush said:


> HSR is not a metro line, it will neither have high station density (otherwise it wouldn't be HSR) nor a mass commuter transport function (at least not in Thailand, in a foreseeable future). Why should somebody be interested in building houses, retail space or offices on land along a HSR route many kilometers outside the station area (only for the reason there being a HSR track)? It's a question I already asked before but nobody could ever explain it in an even mildly convincing way. To me it's almost equally a strange idea as if wanting to "develop" land along flight routes in between airports.


I think the reason why they've basically called dibs on land is for two reasons:

Firstly, it's an indirect and polite manner to effectively monopolize anciliary developments around the stations.

Secondly, the nature of urbanization in East Asia, and the fact that Bangkok-Chiang Mai and Bangkok-Korat-Khon Kaen lines travel along existing major arteries means there's a huge potential for the 'commuterization' of high-speed rail lines (prevalent in Japan, in progress in China and Taiwan). And with that comes even more scope for more commercial, industrial and residential developments around future stations. You're looking at a maximum of 50-60km intervals of agriculture or untouched land before you get some form of urbanization, be it a large town or a city. In addition, when you consider the potential of cities and metro areas, this dibs on land becomes very, very contentious because of its investment potential, and this being Thailand, has a high probability of development happening.

I still remember the early 2000s when Suvarnabhumi was in the middle of nowhere. Now it's virtually nonstop urbanization along Sukhumvit Road from Bangkok to Pattaya.


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## George W. Bush

ddes said:


> I still remember the early 2000s when Suvarnabhumi was in the middle of nowhere. Now it's virtually nonstop urbanization along Sukhumvit Road from Bangkok to Pattaya.


Yes, but this is a consequence of expanding road infrastructure. Cars can leave a highway at many points, it's an entirely different story. How could 50 km or more of rail tracks with no stopping point in between catalyze that much investment _througout_ the route?

In Japan it makes sense to use HSR e.g. between Tokyo, Osaka and Nagoya because these are cities with very extensive metro systems which perfectly complement the HSR. Same when travelling from Beijing to Shanghai and probably also in Taiwan. But not in Thailand, where the metro system in Bangkok is still comparably limited (even though rapidly expanding) and nonexistent outside Bangkok.


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## Codename B

*Phahonyothin Yothin Transit Oriented Development (TOD)*

Thailand's first Transit Oriented Development (TOD). To develop the land around Bang Sue Grand station. From the second public hearing.




























































Credit: Khun Chuthaphong Saetang


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## Wisarut

George W. Bush said:


> Yes, but this is a consequence of expanding road infrastructure. Cars can leave a highway at many points, it's an entirely different story. How could 50 km or more of rail tracks with no stopping point in between catalyze that much investment _througout_ the route?
> 
> In Japan it makes sense to use HSR e.g. between Tokyo, Osaka and Nagoya because these are cities with very extensive metro systems which perfectly complement the HSR. Same when travelling from Beijing to Shanghai and probably also in Taiwan. But not in Thailand, where the metro system in Bangkok is still comparably limited (even though rapidly expanding) and nonexistent outside Bangkok.


Extension of the road in question are the branch from BKK - Chonburi Motorway (Highway 7) and Onnut - Ladkrabang road in the North, the Branch of Bang Na - Bang Pakong at km 15 (from Bang Na) in the South, the access ways to Kingkaew road in the west though. 

For the case of Donmueang is another matter as it has already has the rail access since the first day of Donmueang Airport by Siamese Army Aviation Dept (the embryo of Royal Thai Air Forces) - and the Phahonyothin has been added in 1936, Vibhavadee Rangsit highway has been added in 1966, Donmueang Tollway has been added in 1994-5 though ... 

the distance of Airport Link from Phayathai to Suvannabhum is The 28.6 kilometers though and the other 26 km extension from Phayathai to Donmueang ...

Now, private sector in Khon Kaen want both Monorail and LRT networks for Khon Kaen city - even though it will be long way to go to have a line to Khon Kaen airport ... as there are a lot of Chinese businessmen settled in Khon Kaen City. 

Sadly, the decision to set up Nakhon Ratchasima airport around Tha Chang area (40 km east of downtown Khorat city - opened in 1997) has caused a lot of hassle though ... 
Let's see when Chiang Mai LRT will become a reality as it has to fight against those red minibuses run by the familiar organized crimes ... while Hatyai city Hall better impement Hatyai Monorail as soon as possible and negotiate with AOT to allow Hatyai Monorail to function as Airport Link as so many local people as well as tourists have pressed the demands as they can no longer stand with 300 Baht flat rate minibuses that go between Hatyai international airport and Hatyai city / Songkla city


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## Codename B

*Govt eyes shared rail link plan*
8 Jun 2016 at 04:00 | WRITER: AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK

*Transport authorities are proposing a rail track-sharing idea to cut costs in the Bangkok-Chiang Mai high-speed train project, said a Transport Ministry source.*

Under the plan, the Thai-Japanese 672km-line would share a length of railway line with the Thai-Chinese high-speed train project linking Bangkok and Nakhon Ratchasima, which will subsequently reduce the cost by 90 billion baht.

Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith has called a meeting with Japanese authorities to settle a disagreement on the project value -- 530 billion baht estimated by Tokyo, against 440 billion baht put up by Bangkok, the source said.

Japan's figures are higher because it suggested building the rail line from Bang Sue railway station in Bangkok to Chiang Mai while Thailand wants the track to start at Ban Phachi station in Ayutthaya, located north of the capital. In its initial study, the Transport Ministry proposed a section of rail between Bang Sue and Ban Phachi can share facilities with the Thai-Chinese project.

It is not only the cost issue that needs a decision, the source added. Thai authorities also are worried whether there is enough space for a new railway to be built on some parts of the route, where there are already rail links. Many lines appear to squeeze into limited areas running from Bang Sue to Don Muang and Rangsit, the source said.

However, it is difficult to talk Japan into changing the construction plan due to Japan's unique Shinkansen technology. "The Japanese technology cannot connect with the other rail technologies [of China and Europe]," the source said.

Chinese high-speed rail technology is more open. If the talks with Japan fail and Thailand still wants to push the rail track-sharing idea, it needs to discuss the plan with its Chinese counterpart, the source said.

"It may turn out that China needs to share a rail track with the Airport Rail Link extension," the source suggested, referring to the government's plan to build a new extended rail line linking Don Mueang and Suvarnabhumi airports.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/1004513/govt-eyes-shared-rail-link-plan


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## George W. Bush

I always wonder how these planning people operate. Didn't they know from start that Shinkansen and Chinese technology have serious compatibility issues?


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## Wisarut

George W. Bush said:


> I always wonder how these planning people operate. Didn't they know from start that Shinkansen and Chinese technology have serious compatibility issues?


I have never thought that those in OTP have ever known that Shinkansen and Chinese technology have serious compatibility issues. Even they did know, they still thought that European signal will solve compatibility issues.


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## tjrgx

Wisarut said:


> I have never thought that those in OTP have ever known that Shinkansen and Chinese technology have serious compatibility issues. Even they did know, they still thought that European signal will solve compatibility issues.


They don't know European signals compatible with Chinese systems but not Japanese ones. EU is pressing Japan hard on this issue in recent EPA negotiations...


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## Codename B

*High-speed rail routes chosen for PPP fast track*
9 Jun 2016 at 07:36 | WRITER: CHATRUDEE THEPARAT

*Two high-speed rail projects, the 193.5-kilometre Bangkok-Rayong route worth 153 billion baht and the 211km Bangkok-Hua Hin route worth 94.7 billion, are set to be included for fast track consideration in the public-private partnership (PPP) scheme.*

Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith said the two were likely to be submitted for approval by the PPP committee by this month or next. If approved, they will be the sixth and seventh such projects.

Last November the government put five projects worth a combined 334 billion baht on the front burner under the PPP scheme, giving them a mandate to start in the second half this year.

They comprise three mass-transit routes in Bangkok: the Pink Line from Khae Rai to Min Buri, the Yellow Line from Lat Phrao to Samrong, and the Blue Line extension from Hua Lamphong to Bang Kae and Bang Sue to Tha Phra. The routes were worth a combined 194 billion baht, while two interprovincial motorways were worth 140 billion.

The two motorways will link Ayutthaya's Bang Pa-in district with Nakhon Ratchasima and Nonthaburi's Bang Yai district with Kanchanaburi.

The 1.435 metre-gauge high-speed rail linking Bangkok and Rayong is part of the government's Eastern Economic Corridor (EEC) development plan that aims to build up Chon Buri, Rayong and Chachoengsao as locations for a high-technology industry cluster.

The cabinet is scheduled to consider the law governing special economic zones for EEC development over the next two weeks.

Mr Arkhom said the Bangkok-Rayong route is conducting an environmental impact assessment (EIA), while the Bangkok-Hua-Hin route's EIA is completed and pending approval by the National Environment Board.

The government aims to kick-start the construction of 20 megaprojects valued at 1.6 trillion baht this year as part of a plan to stimulate the economy.

The cabinet already approved 11 projects worth 460 billion baht that are expected to be completed by 2022. The proportion of private investment accounted for 25% of total investment. Eight projects are under construction.

He said the proportion of private investment in the infrastructure projects was likely to increase to 30% once the cabinet approved the two high-speed rail projects in the PPP fast-track scheme.

BTS Group chairman Keeree Kanjanapas urged the government to be more generous in wooing private investment, citing infrastructure projects as requiring massive investment with a long wait to receive a return.

He lauded the PPP scheme for allowing the private sector to play a greater role in infrastructure projects, which will reduce the government's financial burden.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/transport/1005405/high-speed-rail-routes-chosen-for-ppp-fast-track


----------



## George W. Bush

Wisarut said:


> I have never thought that those in OTP have ever known that Shinkansen and Chinese technology have serious compatibility issues. Even they did know, they still thought that European signal will solve compatibility issues.


Great. If the responsible planning agency doesn't know the basics, then it's no wonder the whole process is such a mess. Aren't they already building Bang Sue station on the assumption that there will be HSR track sharing?


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## ddes

I don't know what's with the Japanese. Shinkansen technology can clearly run on European signal, as Taiwan has proven and is the exact thing they're trying to sell to USA. And it's not like CRC nor JR East or JR Tokai is going to operate the line. This unnecessary terms by the Japanese seems indicative of their sudden lack of interest rather than signal compatibility.


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## tjrgx

ddes said:


> I don't know what's with the Japanese. Shinkansen technology can clearly run on European signal, as Taiwan has proven and is the exact thing they're trying to sell to USA. And it's not like CRC nor JR East or JR Tokai is going to operate the line. This unnecessary terms by the Japanese seems indicative of their sudden lack of interest rather than signal compatibility.


Taiwan HSR has EU(Siemens)/JP hybrid system and has some issues lately though (railroad switch,etc)....


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## ddes

tjrgx said:


> Taiwan HSR has EU(Siemens)/JP hybrid system and has some issues lately though (railroad switch,etc)....


Well, we also mustn't forget that the original E2s run fine on China's network.


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## Wisarut

Reason behind the cost overrun from Bangsue Central to Chiang Mai (669 km) from 450,000 Million Baht according to OTP to 546,000 Million Baht according to Japan is that Japanese government making a clear point to construct the separated tracks from Bangsue Central to Ban Phachi (82.8 km)

Therefore, Japanese has given the following suggestion to deal with cost overrun issue:
1. Making the construction into 3 phases which Thailand has agreed with this idea as it has postponed some of unnecessary expenditure. 
2. First phase started from Bangsue Central to Lopburi (the Northern limit of SRT commuter) as Japanese government have pointed out that Thailand will become full blown aging society on 2025 so the long travels are no longer necessary ... However, Thailand making a clear point that the first phase of High Speed train system must be about 200-250 km long. 
3. the daily number of passenger during the first phase is still in dispute. Japanese said 45000 passengers a day on the first phase according to the study by OTP is too much due to the fact that Thailand will become full blown aging society on 2025 so the long travels are no longer necessary. However, Thailand has insisted this daily number of passenger at 45000 passengers a day due to the increasing internal migration of those new generations by High sped train and the set up of SMES in regional areas. 

4. Japanese making a clear point to Thailand that Thai government MUST come up with the workable urban planning to set up mass transits to feed the High Speed train stations to increase the coverage of passengers along with commercial development around station areas as well as along the high speed trains to increase the number of passengers by more migration as well as the encouragement to set up more stations. 

Furthermore, Thai government must invest on infrastructure while letting JV company with Private sector to run the train if state enterprise is not capable to run this high speed train.

MoT deputy permanent secretariat told Japanese partners that MoT is drafting the master plan on commercial development around 12 stations of High Speed train from Bangsue Central to Chiang Mai as Japanese partners have made such a request. 

On the issue of cargo service along the existing line from Nong Pladuk to Laem CHabang along with the Northern line and North eastern line, there are still lots of issue that failed to meet the market demands [Read : Japanese investors and Japanese Industries in Thailand]. Therefore, the further studies are in need before setting up SPV to run cargo train from Kanchanaburi to Aranyaphrathet with a branch line to Laem Chabang deep sea port with a total distance of 574 km. At the time being, Thailand and Japan has set up the surveying and development of cargo rail transports at Toyota Tuso (Thailand) on 2 June 2016.

Furthermore, Japanese partners have pointed out that there are many ship from Cambodia are using Laem Chabang Deep Sea Port instead of Sihanukville Deep Sea Port but they want to ship their cargo to Poipet checkpoint via cargo rails. 

Even more still, Japanese partners making a clear point that Thailand must improve the traffic on existing railway networks to be much more efficiency before setting up the traffic zoning along with connection and the access of under constructed red line commuters and Airport link before ever come up with bypass sections. 

http://www.prachachat.net/news_detail.php?newsid=1465793259


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## Wisarut

Thai China railway is going to construct the first 3 km of 252.35 km Bangsue Central - Nakhon Rachasima line at Klang Dong station on Railway land in September 2016 - by asking Chinese government to finish Klang dong section in the next month - After the 11th negotiation, the number of stations has been fixed to 6 stations - Detailed design by Chinese government will be fully done in Feb 2017 - so Thai government will start bidding on the section which design has been done first
http://www.manager.co.th/iBizChannel/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9590000060310

Somkid asking cabinet to finalize the plan for High speed train to Rayong
http://www.manager.co.th/iBizChannel/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9590000058324


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## Codename B

*Construction of Bangkok – Nakhon Ratchasima high speed train to begin in Sept*
16 Jun. 2016 | 18:22

BANGKOK, 16 June 2016 (NNT) - The Thai - Chinese Train Committee has agreed to start constructing a 3.5-kilometer railroad in Nakhon Ratchasima in September this year.

Minister of Transport Arkhom Termpittayapaisith on Thursday attended a meeting with the committee. The meeting agreed to construct the first phase of the Bangkok – Nakhon Ratchasima high speed train at Klang Dong station located in a property of the State Railway of Thailand. The construction can start immediately and there is no need to build elevated structures to avoid mountains, said the minister. 

The meeting also instructed a Chinese technical team to finish designing the projects within one month. Bidding for the project has been scheduled to take place in August and the construction will begin in September. 

The rest four phases of the railroad will be jointly designed by Thai and Chinese technical teams who will periodically submit the project’s progress report to the committee. 

http://thainews.prd.go.th/website_en/news/news_detail/WNECO5906160010029


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## Wisarut

Codename B said:


> *Construction of Bangkok – Nakhon Ratchasima high speed train to begin in Sept*
> 16 Jun. 2016 | 18:22


There will be 4 sections for Bangkok to Nakhon Ratchasima with total distance of 252.35 km

1. Klang Dong Section 3.5 km at km.150+500 to km.154 +500 (more likely km. 154 +000) - design must be done in August 2016 and construction must be started in September 2016
2. 10 km - design must be done in October 2016
3. 120 km - design must be done in December 2016 
4. 119 km - design must be done in February 2017

the list of 6 high speed train stations from Bangkok to Nakhon Ratchasima are

1. Bangsue Central 
2. Donmueang
3. Ayutthaya
4. Saraburi
5. Pak Chong
6. Nakhon Ratchasima 

Even though the latest figure is 189,981 million Baht, Thai government and Chinese government will have to find the way to cut the cost to meet the goal of 179,000 million Baht - at least the cut of 7000 Million Baht must be met without cutting further number of stations even though the cut of 10,000 Million Baht is necessary 
http://www.matichon.co.th/news/176571
http://www.manager.co.th/iBizChannel/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9590000060538


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## tonii

George W. Bush said:


> Great. If the responsible planning agency doesn't know the basics, then it's no wonder the whole process is such a mess. Aren't they already building Bang Sue station on the assumption that there will be HSR track sharing?


No - The original plan was done when HSR was still designed to be fully invested by Thai government via open international bidding, which means track sharing could happen using the same HSR technology for both lines. Everything was clearly planned out at that point.

Yes - It just become a mess when the new gov decided to give those 2 tracks to both Chinese and Japanese, without thinking in advance that it's possible for either Chinese or Japanese to refuse sharing the same track , or adapt to use the shared european signalling. It's when political view taking over the engineering and now cause a massive problem.


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## Wisarut

tonii said:


> Yes - It just become a mess when the new gov decided to give those 2 tracks to both Chinese and Japanese, without thinking in advance that it's possible for either Chinese or Japanese to refuse sharing the same track , or adapt to use the shared european signalling. It's when political view taking over the engineering and now cause a massive problem.


More likely, those in OTP never take the *political animosity* between Japan and China into account at all so they failed to take the cost overrun by extra tracks into account ... for the political issue, it is the way Junta has learnt very hard way that they way they thought that it is the way to cut down the cost actually adding extra cost which is beyond their thoughts .... and give a rude shock ... not to mention about that *political animosity* which Thai government have never Directly experienced - other than the day of Great Games


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## tjrgx

Wisarut said:


> More likely, those in OTP never take the *political animosity* between Japan and China into account at all so they failed to take the cost overrun by extra tracks into account ...


I think it is less to do with the political animosity. Japan won't share tracks even if it is built by European companies. The signaling systems are simply not compatible


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## Wisarut

Now, Post Today has given further details on High Speed train from Bangsue Central to Nakhon Ratchasima

1. Section 1: Klang Dong - Pang Asok at km 150 + 000 - km 154 + 500 on the existing Railway land along this section - with the design must be done by the end of August 2016 so as to start bidding and construction in September 2016

2. Section 2: 6 km east of Pak Chong station - Klong Khananchit station at km 179- km 189 as tunnel section with the design must be done by the end of October 2016 so as to start bidding and construction in November 2016

3. Section 3: from Kaeng Khoi to Nakhon Ratchasiam (km 119 - km 253.250) which cover the connection of the first 2 unconnected section - with the design must be done by the end of December 2016 so as to start bidding and construction in January 2017. Actually, Section 3 consists of 3 separated sections including

3.1 Section 3A Kaeng Khoi - Klang Dong (km 119 - km 150) AKA Dong Phraya Yen Section - 
3.2 Section 3B Pang Asok - Bundai Mah - Pak Chong (km 154 + 500 - km 179) AKA Pakchong - Sikhiw section
3.3 Section 3C Klong Khananchit - Nakhon Ratchasima (km 189 - km 253 + 250) AKA Khorat section 


4. Section 4: Bangsue central - Kaeng Khoi (km 0+000 - km 119) - with the design must be done by the end of February 2017 so as to start bidding and construction in March 2017 - this is the most serious section of all as it has to have the accommodation for both Thai - China high speed train with the vacant space for Thai - Japan high speed train on the first 82.8 km section from Bangsue Central to Ban Phachi - and Ayutthaya is the station that need to have extra platforms to accommodate both Thai - China High speed train and Thai - Japan High Speed train - after all Japanese have invested a lot in Rojana Industrial Estate in Ayutthaya city Island. Furthermore, the old Ayutthaya station dated 1921-1922 must be preserved.
http://www.posttoday.com/biz/gov/438130


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## George W. Bush

Build first, then plan.



> Although the decision to first bid for and construct only 3.5 km pf the route "might seem new and strange for this large project", it "isn't against the investment principles" and the ministry thinks it won't have to wait until both sides can decide on the entire project, the source said. The sooner any part of the project can begin, the more likely the government will implement bilateral cooperation to develop Thailand's first high-speed rail route, the source said.
> 
> The source claimed construction of the 3.5 km section of the route is estimated to cost 1.5 billion baht, while the entire project is estimated to cost 163 billion baht. Thailand and China, however, could not reach agreement as to who should shoulder the cost of redesigning the project after it had been changed from a maximum speed of 250 kph to 180 kph. The cost of the redesign is estimated to come to three billion baht. Thailand will likely have to pay for it as China had only agreed to pay for the first design, the source said.
> 
> *Sangwon Liptapanlop, president of the Thai Contractors Association, said it was strange the government wanted to press ahead with the project without any certainty about the implementation. "A project of this large scale should have waited until a clear plan to implement it is ready and clear sub-contracts for construction are drafted so that the interested bidders can be confident in it," he said.*


http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/1013837/thai-sino-rail-project-accelerates


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## Wisarut

Thai government has made a clear determination that Thai - Japan High Speed train to Chiang Mai must get the first phase from Bangsue Central to Phitsanuloke with the distance of 384 km before embarking the 2nd phase from Phitsanuloke to Chiang Mai with the distance of 289 km.

Thai government have agreed with Japanese government on commercial development along with this high speed train line - with the detailed design started in 2017 to be finished in 2018 so as to call a bidding by the end of 2018 - as they have realized that even the first section will take 3-4 years to be done. The development of Thai - Japan high speed train must be done within 5 years instead of 10 years.

http://www.manager.co.th/iBizChannel/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9590000062869


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## tjrgx

*AFP: Thailand approves long-delayed US$5.2 billion rail link to China*

http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/south...-approves-long-delayed-us52bn-rail-link-china

Thailand’s military government on Tuesday approved US$5.2 billion to build the first stretch of a high-speed railway that will ultimately link Bangkok to southern China, a massive joint infrastructure project with Beijing that has been dogged by delays.

The project is part of China’s huge regional infrastructure plan to build a high-speed rail network connecting the southern city of Kunming with Laos, Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore.

Construction has already begun in Laos but the Thai segment of rail has been stymied for years by tussles over financing, loan terms and protective labour regulations in the Southeast Asian kingdom.

The funding approval from Thailand’s cabinet came after junta chief Prayuth Chan-ocha invoked his absolute powers last month to clear a series of legal and technical hurdles standing in the way of the deal.

“The Cabinet has approved phase one of the high speed railway ... from Bangkok to Korat with 179 billion baht (US$5.2 billion) budget for a four-year plan,” said Kobsak Pootrakool from the Prime Minister’s office.

The first stage of the high-speed line will run 250km between Bangkok and the northeastern province of Nakhon Ratchasima, also known as Korat. The plan is to then extend the track to Nong Khai on the border with Laos.

Thailand will cover the construction costs but the vast majority of technical expertise will come from Chinese engineers – something that has disgruntled local firms who were angered by Prayuth’s decision to loosen restrictions placed on foreign engineers.

“Thailand will be responsible for the construction, while China will be responsible for design,” Thai Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith said on Tuesday.

The rail deal is one of the biggest foreign investment projects in Thailand in years and is part of Beijing’s “One Belt, One Road” infrastructure drive which aims to revive ancient Silk Road trading routes.

China’s largesse and increased investment presence in Asia comes as rival power the US becomes more isolationist under President Donald Trump.

Thailand’s junta has grown closer to Beijing since its 2014 power grab, shelling out billions on Chinese arms and welcoming investment from the regional superpower.


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## Codename B

Ticket prices for Bangkok - Nakhon Ratchasima route are revealed to be as follows:

Bangkok - Ayutthaya : 64 km - 195 baht (5,60 USD)
Bangkok - Saraburi : 110 km - 278 baht (8 USD)
Bangkok - Pak Chong : 174 km - 393 baht (11,30 USD)
Bangkok - Nakhon Ratchasima : 253 km - 535 baht (15,37 USD)

The trip from Bangkok to Nakhon Ratchasima will take 1 hour and 17 minutes.


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## Codename B

The Ministry of Transport is speeding up the Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima high-speed train project 
after getting the green light by the Cabinet

The expected construction is in October this year










Mr. Arkhom Termpittayapaisith Minister of Transport revealed the results of the Cabinet meeting yesterday that the Cabinet meeting has approved the cooperation projects of high-speed railway between Thailand - China for the Bangkok - Nakhon Ratchasima route at 1,790,413 million baht. It is a 100% investment from Thailand and the contract is divided in two project contracts. Contract 1 is for civil construction, accounting for 75% of the value of the contract. Contract 2 consists of 3 contracts, representing 25% of the value of the contract. 2.1 Contract Design 2.2. Civil and Contracts Control. 2.3 Railway Systems and Training Works.

It is expected at the 20th meeting between August 15 -17, 2017 that it will be possible to sign the contract 2.1 with the proposal of the Cabinet for approval and in early September to sign the contract 2.2. After these two contracts are signed, construction will commence on the first 3.5 km stretch, with a budget of 425 million baht in October 2017. The Department of Highways is assigned to carry out the construction, since it will be faster because it is a government agency.

However, in terms of investment budget, the Cabinet has assigned the Ministry of Finance to consider it. The Office of the Budget has proposed to use the loan to carry out the project, which will be foreign loans and domestic money, except for land ownership. This will need to be considered again as appropriate.

source: http://www.innnews.co.th/shownews/show?newscode=796407


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## Wisarut

No need for bidding for the First section of Thai - China High Speed train - 3.5 km at 425 Million Baht since Highway Dept is going to do this construction - started in October 2017 only after the 20th meeting 
to get the detail design contract signed on 15-17 August 2017 and project consultant contract signed since September 2017. Thai government also ask Chinese government to issue the detailed design for 
the second contract within 4 months instead of 8 months so as to call the bidding for the next 11 km 

Budget of Year 2017 at 2,648 Million Baht
Budget of Year 2018 at 43,097 Million Baht 
Budget of Year 2019 at 62,216 Million Baht
Budget of Year 2020 at 59,702 Million Baht and
Budget of Year 2021 at 12,017 Million Baht

the Opening date will be December 2021 with the ticket prices up to 535 Baht using the rate of 80 Baht + 1.8 Baht per km distance (total 253 km), so the rate will be 

Bangsue Central - Ayutthaya at 195 Baht
Bangsue Central - Saraburi at 278 Baht 
Bangsue Central - Pak Chong at 393 Baht
Bangsue Central - Nakhon Ratchasima at 535 Baht - travel time 67 minutes 

the train will run 90 minute interval with the seat of 600 seats per set (totally 6 sets) - with expected number of daily passengers at 5310 passengers a day in 2021 before going up to 26830 passengers a day in 2051 due to 26 trains which run at 35 minute interval

the economic benefit will be 11.68% for Bangsue Central - Nakhon Ratchasima (6 stations - Bangsue central, Donmueang, Ayutthaya, Saraburi, Pakchong, Nakhon Ratchasima with maintainance 
center at Chiang Rak Noy) after major urban development around the station to boost from the current rate of 8.5% but it will be up to 13.52% once it has been extended to Nong Khai with the stations at Ban Phai, Khon Kaen, Udonthani an Nong Khai

However, the section from Kaeng Khoi to Map Ta Phut via Klong 19 bypass will added later 

Need land exappropriation for curve correcting to ensure 250 kph max speed (around 10-15%) - 818 Rai on Bangsue section, 1997 Rai for Ban Phachi section - totally 212 million Baht
http://www.thansettakij.com/content/177958
https://www.prachachat.net/property/news-3549

Big Too also insists that we would NOT be at the disadvantage for Thai - China Railway
http://www.thansettakij.com/content/177948


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## Wisarut

Testing the first 40-50 Chinese engineers before gaining permission to work in Thai - China High Speed train project
https://www.prachachat.net/property/news-6884

sending 100 Thai - Chinese engineers including those from Highway Dept to work on the first 3.5 km section of Thai - China High Speed railway to work 24 hours a day 7 days a week to get the permanent way of 4 meter high and 12 meter wide done within 3 months after start working in October 2017 and done in December 2017 - and the next on the line is 11 km section from Pak Chong to Klong Khanant Jit
https://www.prachachat.net/property/news-6967

the council of Thai engineers now defining the technology transfer so Thai engineers can deal with High Speed train track and machine maintenance by themselves.
http://www.manager.co.th/Business/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9600000073165


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## Wisarut

Plan for land development on 541.47 rai of land around new Pak Chong station of Thai - China railway - even though it is Treasury Dept land used by Army Ordinance Dept as factories but there are a lot of people in Tha Manao community in Nong Sarai commune, and Phrom Pradit village in Chanthuk commune of Pak Chong district - so compensation for those local people are in need -

Just the new Pak Chong station alone cover 277,461 sq. meter of land (173.4 Rai) - no community while the actual commercialized land will be on 588,900 sq. meter of land (368 Rai) - even though Army men and Treasury Dept have agreed with development scheme but the local people who have to move out are going up against such a plan by showing defiance against the Treasury Dept who are going to evict them out
http://www.springnews.co.th/th/2017/07/71439/

MoT explaining NLA about Thai - China High Speed train phase 1 (Bangsue Central - Nakhon Ratchaisma) - 252.5 km at 179,412 Million Baht - 250 kph max speed with 11 trains a day - travelling time from Bangsue central to Khorat at 67 minutes - NLA men agree but still raising a concern on 2800 Rai of land exappropriation due to the rising protest by those farmers who lease Treasury land around Pak Chong high speed train station - not to mention about 150000 Million Baht track and rolling stock maintenance cost 
http://www.bangkokbiznews.com/news/detail/765420


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## Codename B

=== at grade tracks
=== elevated tracks
=== 5 bridges
=== 4 tunnels










From top to bottom
- Nakhon Ratchasima Station
- Pak Chong Station
- Saraburi Station










https://www.prachachat.net/property/news-8004


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## Wisarut

Thai - China high speed train 
58.5 km at grade
101.1 km elevated track
4.1 km of 5 via ducts
6.3 km of 4 tunnels around Kaeng Khoi 
818 rai of land exappropriation at Bang Sue section and 1997 rai of land exappropriation at Ban Phachi section - need to spend 10000 million Baht to remove the pipelines and high power electric lines - and need to get permanent way of 3.5 km at 425 million Baht around Pang Asok - Bundai Mah done first 
https://www.prachachat.net/property/news-8004


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## Wisarut

competitors for High Speed trains to Khorat - Bang Pa In - Khorat motorway
https://www.prachachat.net/property/news-9754


Clear point from OTP - no extension from Donmueang to Ayutthaya for the airport link extension to connect Donmueang, Suvannabhum and U-Tapao together since the study on the PPP on airport link extension to connect Donmueang, Suvannabhum and U-Tapao together is almost done and the extension to Ayutthaya would postpone PPP plan for years instead of by the end of 2017. Furthermore, this extension is a duplication with High Speed train to Chiang Mai which is Thai - Japan project - those who want to go to AYutthaya better change the train at Bangsue central instead 
https://www.thairath.co.th/content/1014890
https://www.dailynews.co.th/economic/587440


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## Wisarut

Even more issue on Thai - China Railway - the consultant fee - the cabinet approving the budget of 1649.08 million Baht but Chinese want more - so Thai government is threatening to cancel Thai - China railway if they cannot accept the price
http://www.manager.co.th/Business/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9600000080082


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## Wisarut

The signing ceremony for Thai - China High Speed Railways postponed by a month to early September 2017 according to the latest news
https://www.khaosod.co.th/economics/news_466481

Thai steel makers pressing demands to participate in Thai - China High Speed Railway instead of letting Chinese steel makers to dump their steel products without passing Thai Industrial Standard to feed Thai - China Railway projects
https://www.prachachat.net/economy/news-17344






5 Thai Engineering and Architecture Organizations [Council of Thai Engineers, Council of Thai Architects, Engineering Institute of Thailand, Deans of Engineering Dept Council and Federation of Thai Industries] are Pressing 5 demands to Thai government to ask Chinese government to do the following things as a part pf Technology transfers including

1. Technology transfers on design, construction control on 25 branches in 9 major groups to enable Thai engineering and architects to gain more expertise 
2. Technology transfers on railway traffics and railway track, rolling stock and traffic control system maintenance to enable Thai engineers to handle the maintenance by themselves. 
3. technology transfer on production to enable to produce modern railway carriages in Thailand (aircon carriages with WIFI system / better power cars and son) by the local Thai companies at least 50%
4. technology transfer on production of spare pare so that the local Thai companies and produce at least 40% of necessary spare parts)
5. Thai Engineering and Architecture Organizations are going to teach and test 400 Chinese engineers and architects so that they can work on station design to meet the real needs of local Thai people - 3 sets will be tested in China and 1 sets will be tested in Thailand

This will be a part of negotiation on 11 August 2017 before the 20th meeting in Thailand on 15-17 August 2017 with 40 Thai representatives from 5 Thai Engineering and Architecture Organizations [Council of Thai Engineers, Council of Thai Architects, Engineering Institute of Thailand, Deans of Engineering Dept Council and Federation of Thai Industries] - which will be considered as the design experts, ready to handle the extension of Thai - China high speed railways (Nakhon Ratchasima - Nong Khai) which Thai engineers and architects will handle such a project while Chinese partners will act as mentors.

Council of Thai Architects is now raising the serious question on city planning along with urban development around stations - it needs to be in line and at the same direction with those High speed train construction 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdVT8YBdoRc
https://www.prachachat.net/property/news-18753


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## Wisarut

Donmuang - U-Tapao - Rayong High Speed train with 50 year concession as PPP Net cost with commecial developments on 204 rai of Makkasan central along with commercial developments on 10 stations with the investment of 308,000 Million Baht - 30000 million Baht cost overrun due to the demand to enable High Speed train to have Direct access into Suvannabhum Airport and U-Tapao Airport so as to function as the real EEC gateway - EIRR at 12.8% and FIRR at 2.4%

1. the high speed train tracks of 226000 million Baht including 
1.1 159000 Million Baht for civil work, 
1.2 32000 million Baht for electromechanic works including electrification and signal installation, 
1.3 22000 million Baht for EMUs and 
1.4 13000 for miscellaneous expenditure
2. investment on Makkasan central at 82000 million Baht including 
2.1 major construction at Makkasan central at 55000 million Baht 
2.2 25000 million Baht on construction and commercial development
2.3 2000 million Baht for utilities and improving the access to Makkasan Central

Construction started in December 2018 which separated into 2 sections (Phyathai - Donmuang and Lad Krabang - Rayong) with total distance of 260 km and opened in mid 2023 with 169500 passengers a day
10 stations of Donmuang - U-Tapao - Rayong High Speed train are including
1. Donmueang - EOL for both Express train and commuter
2. Bangsue Central
3. Makkasan Central 
4. Suvannabhum
5. Chachoengsao
6. Chonburi
7. Sri Racha - now become just like Japanese town 
8. Pataya 
9. U - Tapao - EOL for express train
10. Rayong - EOL for city line

max speed of 250 kph - it will take 2 hour for city line from Donmuang to Rayong and it will take 1 hour for express train from Donmuang to U-Tapao
City line ticket rate - 13 Baht + 2 x number of travelling km
express line ticket rate - 20 Baht + 1.8 x number of traveling km 

Need to dig tunnels in the following 3 sections
1. Rama 6 road to Ranong 1 road due to the fact that this section has to pass Chitladda Royal Station 
2. New tunnel to access into Suvannahhum station from Lad Krabang station 
3. Khao Chee Jan tunnel to access into U-Tapao airport

2 depots -
1. existing Airport Link Depot at Klong Tan to handle City Line
2. new depot for Express line at Chachoengsao on 400 Rai of land - North of existing Chachoengsao Junction 
https://www.prachachat.net/property/news-21905

















MoT Minister Akhom along with permanent secretariat and inspector general inspecting the area to construct the first section of Thai - China High Speed train from Klang Dong station to Pang Asok station in Phraya yen commune, Pak Chong district of Nakhon Ratchasima on 13 August 2017
http://www.thansettakij.com/content/194072


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## Wisarut

SRT Governor insisting that the Donmuang - U-Tapao - Rayong High Speed train with 50 year concession for as PPP Net cost with commercial developments on 204 rai of Makkasan central along with commercial developments on 10 stations with the investment of 308,000 Million Baht are for easing the financial burden vof the government since Article 6 and Article 9 of Railway Act of BE 2494 has allowed SRT to do so even the Civil and Commercial Code has limited the concession to 30 year but it is expected that Junta and SRT are going to find the way to get around anyway - the bone of contention which are to be solved is the new place to replace Makkasan Factory 
http://manager.co.th/Business/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9600000083211


Even after te bargaining that cut down the designing fee from 2014 million Baht to 1706 million Baht while the personnel hiring have been changed from 500 chinese to 50 Chinese + 450 Thailanders which effectively cut from 5140 million Baht to 4000 million Baht but MoF still want to make a cut to 3000 million Baht even though it is still well over the cabinet approved budget of 1648 million Baht - a bone of contention indeed 

the consultant fee of Thai - China Railway is another bone of contention since Chinese government insists 3000 Million baht consultant fee is the minimum acceptable price even though Ministry of Finance of Thailand insisting that 1648 million baht is the maximum they can pay to Chinese government 
https://www.prachachat.net/property/news-21908


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## tjrgx

*Construction of first phase of Thailand-China railway project to start in October*

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-08/19/c_136539091.htm

BANGKOK, Aug. 19 (Xinhua) -- China and Thailand are working together to sign two contracts of the first phase of Thailand-China railway project in September to begin the construction work of the first section in October, Chinese Embassy in Bangkok said in a statement Saturday.

According to the statement, the two countries concluded negotiations of the contract of design work of the first phase of Thailand-China railway project and agreed on the price in the supervision contract during the 20th meeting of Joint Committee on Railway Cooperation between Thailand and China.

"It is a new significant progress that the project made after being approved by Thai cabinet and Thailand's National Legislative Assembly," the statement said.

It also mentioned that both sides had been required to accelerate their work to make it possible for the two sides to sign the two contracts in September and to begin the construction work of the first section in October.

The construction of first phase, or the 253 km railway from Bangkok to Nakhon Ratchasima, will start gradually from the first 3.5 km section, the second 11 km section, the third 119 km section and finally the fourth 119 km section.

The railway project will also be further extended from Nakhon Ratchasima to Nong Khai on Thai-Lao border, which is called the second phase.

"The preparation work for the second phase of the project will start soon," the embassy said.

China and Thailand have held meetings of Joint Committee on Railway Cooperation for 20 times over the past two years, the statement said both sides have overcome many difficulties and solved many problems.

Chinese side will be responsible for the design work and supervision, which will incorporate many Thai engineers and architects while the Thais will be responsible for construction work. The project will also use Thai equipments and materials as much as possible.

Once finished, the project will be the first standard gauge high speed railway of the Thailand and the railway, according to the statement, "will improve Thailand's transport system, enforce its role as the transport hub in the region, boost economic growth in the country, especially its northeastern part, contribute to the Eastern Economic Corridor project and benefit other countries along the railway."


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## Wisarut

Public Hearing on High Speed train connecting 3 Airport - a mix of existing Airport link with Airport Link extension and High Speed train on the Eastern region - in Chachoengsao -with a hope to get it done in 2023
10 stations

1. Donmuang
2. Bangsue Central
3. Makkasan Central
4. Suvannabhum 
5. Chachoengsao
6. Chonburi
7. Sri Racha - Japanese Town on the Eastern Seaboard
8. Pataya
9. U-Tapao Airport
10. Rayong

Depot at the existing Klong Tan Depot with First CTC control and the new Chachoengsao Depot with second CTC control - with a hope to get daily passengers from Airport city line at 103,920 men a day and Airport Express at 65,630 men a day

https://www.prachachat.net/property/news-30308


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## Wisarut

Page for High Speed train that connect 3 Airports (Donmueang - Suvannabhum - U Tapao) ==> http://www.hsr3airports.com/










Route with the total distance of 244 km
1. Existing Suvarnabhumi Airport Rail Link and City Air Terminal (ARL) => 28.7 km
2. Airport Rail Link Extension : Phaya Yhai – Don Mueang (ARLEX) => 21.8 km
3. High Speed Rail : Bangkok (Lad Krabang) - Suvannabhum – Rayong (HSR) => 193.5 km










Suvannabhum Triangle - allowing High Speed train to make direct access to Suvannabhum Airport station










Donmueang Station - at Donmueang station of red line commuter by staggering up - definitely the area at the old Donmueang station has been reserved for High Speed train to Chiang Mai via Phitsanuloke










U-Tapao Triangle to allow the access to U-Tapao international Airport before heading to Rayong

ticket for Airport city line at 13 + (2.0 x travelling distance in km) HSR ticket at 20 + (1.8 x travelling distance in km) opened in 2023


Cabinet approving 3500 Million Baht for consultant fees on Thai - China High Speed train - up from 1,649.08 Million Baht - a compromise rate when the original rate has failed to recognize the cost overrun due to the hike of Chinese consultant fees
https://manager.co.th/Business/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9600000088730


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## Wisarut

Wisarut said:


> Page for High Speed train that connect 3 Airports (Donmueang - Suvannabhum - U Tapao) ==> http://www.hsr3airports.com/
> 
> 
> Route with the total distance of 244 km
> 1. Existing Suvarnabhumi Airport Rail Link and City Air Terminal (ARL) => 28.7 km
> 2. Airport Rail Link Extension : Phaya Yhai – Don Mueang (ARLEX) => 21.8 km
> 3. High Speed Rail : Bangkok (Lad Krabang) - Suvannabhum – Rayong (HSR) => 193.5 km
> 
> ticket for Airport city line at 13 + (2.0 x travelling distance in km) HSR ticket at 20 + (1.8 x travelling distance in km) opened in 2023











the actual investment on the Seamless connections between Donmueang - Suvannabhum - U-Tapao airport with airport link extensions and high speed express train => Construction at 220,608 Million Baht and the Land Development around the stations at 82,113 Million Baht - total 302,721 Million Baht - need to be PPP with private sectors though
the expected number of passengers in 2023 are - Donmueang - Suvannabhum 103,920 men a day - Suvannabhum - U-Tapao - Rayong 65,630 men a day - total 169550 men a day - the future goal 362,410 men a day
http://www.thansettakij.com/content/201634


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## Codename B

Hopefully construction can then begin next month as scheduled.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Contracts signed as Thai high speed project progresses
05 Sep 2017










*THAILAND: Officials from Thailand and China signed two co-operation contracts for the planned Bangkok – Nakhon Ratchasima high speed railway project on the sidelines of the three-day BRICS Summit in Xiamen, which ended on September 5.*

The contracts are worth 5·2bn baht and cover ‘design and supervision’ tasks for the new railway. The planned 1,435 mm gauge high speed line would be designed to Chinese standards for operation at up to 250 km/h, and would cover a 252 km route between the two cities.

The long-delayed project will be financed wholly by Thailand, at a cost estimated to be 179bn baht. But project delivery and railway systems will be covered by Chinese organisations, under the terms of a bilateral agreement. The agreement has proved controversial in Thailand, but the project was approved by the Thai cabinet in July.

Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-o-Cha was invited to participate in the BRICS summit by Chinese President Xi Jinping, having been left off the list of invitees for a high-profile ‘Belt and Road’ infrastructure conference in May. Observers had viewed this as a snub for overt the failure to launch the high speed project.

The Bangkok – Nakhon Ratchasima scheme is the latest iteration of a proposal that would have been Chinese-funded and connected with the railway now being built from China into Laos. However, negotiations on an extension of the trans-Laos railway into Thailand are reported to have collapsed when Chinese officials discovered that the Thai government was pushing ahead with double-tracking the existing metre-gauge railway between Bangkok and the border city of Nong Khai.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...ed-as-thai-high-speed-project-progresses.html


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## Codename B

Bangkok - Rayong HSR

Recent released study of stations location and their design. This line is scheduled to be u/c in 2018.




































































































http://www.hsr3airports.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/โครงการรถไฟเชื่อม-3-สนามบิน-แบบไร้รอยต่อ.pdf


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## Wisarut

Contracts signed as Thai high speed project progresses
Railway gazette
05 Sep 2017

Investment in Thailand's extensive metre-gauge main line network has cast doubt on the viability of a long-planned standard gauge railway linking the country to China via Laos.

THAILAND: Officials from Thailand and China signed two co-operation contracts for the planned Bangkok – Nakhon Ratchasima high speed railway project on the sidelines of the three-day BRICS Summit in Xiamen, which ended on September 5.

The contracts are worth 5·2bn baht and cover ‘design and supervision’ tasks for the new railway. The planned 1 435 mm gauge high speed line would be designed to Chinese standards for operation at up to 250 km/h, and would cover a 252 km route between the two cities.

The long-delayed project will be financed wholly by Thailand, at a cost estimated to be 179bn baht. But project delivery and railway systems will be covered by Chinese organisations, under the terms of a bilateral agreement. The agreement has proved controversial in Thailand, but the project was approved by the Thai cabinet in July.

Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-o-Cha was invited to participate in the BRICS summit by Chinese President Xi Jinping, having been left off the list of invitees for a high-profile ‘Belt and Road’ infrastructure conference in May. Observers had viewed this as a snub for overt the failure to launch the high speed project.

The Bangkok – Nakhon Ratchasima scheme is the latest iteration of a proposal that would have been Chinese-funded and connected with the railway now being built from China into Laos. However, negotiations on an extension of the trans-Laos railway into Thailand are reported to have collapsed when Chinese officials discovered that the Thai government was pushing ahead with double-tracking the existing metre-gauge railway between Bangkok and the border city of Nong Khai.

Thai version of this news: Thai government is signing the 5,206.771 Million Baht contract to hire Chinese firms to handle design and consultant for Thai - China High Speed train during the 9th BRICS Xiamen Summit at Xia Men

Here are the contracts in question:
1. Detailed Design Services Agreement at 1,706.771 Million Baht 
2. Construction Supervision Consultant Services Agreement at 3,500 Million Baht 

During the 9th BRICS Xiamen Summit at Xia Men, MoT Akhom said during the construction of Bangsue Central - Nakhon Ratchasima High Speed train construction, Thai government is going to deal with the study on the extension from Nakhon Ratchasima to Nong Khai to connect with Lao - China Railway
https://mgronline.com/business/detail/9600000091221
http://www.banmuang.co.th/news/economy/89941


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## tjrgx

*7 pct of construction of first section of Thailand-China high speed railway completed*

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-03/22/c_137058073.htm

PAK CHONG, Thailand, March 22 (Xinhua) -- Construction of the first section of Thailand-China High Speed Train project has been running smoothly, or 7 percent completed, Thanin Somboon, Director-General of Thailand's Department of Highways said on Thursday at the construction site here.

The clearing and grubbing of the first 3.5-kilometer section is finished in the main, contributing to a 7 percent completion of the section, said Thanin at a press tour to where the project began last December.

"The highway department is confident to finish the 3.5-kilometer section within four months, or before August, once we are fully funded," said the director-general.

So far, the cooperation between China and Thailand has been going well, which would be a referential experience for the construction of future sections, Thanin emphasized.

Thailand and China jointly inaugurated the construction of Thailand's first high-speed railway from Bangkok to northeastern province of Nakhon Ratchasima, or the 253-km first phase of Thailand-China high speed railway last December.


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## Codename B

Thailand-China high-speed railway project running smoothly
Bangkok - Nakhon Ratchasima HSR


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## Codename B

Bangkok - Rayong HSR (Public Private Partnership) connecting 3 airports

Newly released info clip with Eng subtitles


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## Wisarut

Cabinet approving PPP Net Cost investment on High Speed train connecting 3 airports with total distance of 220 km - with fares as follows: Makkasan to Pataya at 270 Baht and Makkasan to U-Tapao at 330 Baht
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHUIMpNzuIM#t=540s
https://www.khaosod.co.th/economics/news_892185
http://m.thansettakij.com/content/272120
https://www.posttoday.com/economy/545831

High Speed train down South should not just stop short at Hua Hin, it must be extended all the way to Surat Thani via Chumporn as the way to support tourist business in Chumporn (Koh Tao) and Surat Thani (Koh Samui - Koh Pha Ngan) - fully justified as it is still within the appropriate distance of 500 - 800 km - This is going to please Billionaire Charoen of Beer Chang for sure as he badly want this high speed train to support his real estate project at Cha Am or so
https://www.dailynews.co.th/economic/634356


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## napoleon

Cabinet approves airports-connecting rail project

27 Mar 2018 

BANGKOK, 27 March 2018 (NNT) – The cabinet approved a 700-billion baht high speed rail project connecting three airports in central Thailand, said an adviser attached to the Office of the Prime Minister. 

Nattaporn Jatusripitak revealed the cabinet approved the high speed rail project connecting Don Muang, Suvarnabhumi, and U-tapao airports to be invested in a PPP Net Gross format with the private sector. 

The 220-kilometer rail project costing 700 billion baht will be constructed in two phases, with the government managing the land rights and the private sector providing the construction, train systems and operations, land development, and maintenance. 

Selected firms will be given a 50-years period to co-invest with the government and the State Railway of Thailand. 

Trains will run up to 250 kilometers per hour, providing direct connection between the three airports. A ride from U-tapao to Bangkok is estimated to take 45 minutes, while a ride between Makkasan station in Bangkok and Pattaya will cost 270 baht, and 330 baht between Makkasan and U-tapao respectively. 

Responsible agencies will draft terms of reference to begin the selection process of a private firm to co-invest in this project. 

The cabinet also approved a 3.57 billion baht budget for real assets survey and management costs, and the 119.46 billion baht credit for co-investment with the private sector payable in annual increments for no less than 10 years. 

In addition, the cabinet endorsed the plan to transfer 22.56 billion baht debts from the Airport Rail Link project to the responsibility of the government, and mandating the area alongside the high speed tracks between Don Muang airport and Suvarnabhumi airport as an extension of the Eastern Economic Corridor project.

http://thainews.prd.go.th/website_en/news/news_detail/WNECO6103270010023


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## napoleon

Over 300 investors attend Market Sounding for the High Speed Rail Linked 3 Airports Project



Mr Kobsak Phutrakul (second right), Minister Attached to Office of the Prime Minister, recently presided over the opening ceremony of the Market Sounding for the High Speed Rail Linked 3 Airports Project, which is one of the major projects in developing the Eastern Economic Corridor (EEC) apart from the projects to upgrade U-Tapao Airport, Laem Chabang Port phase 3 and Map Ta Phut Port phase 3. Mr. Kanit Sangsubhan (second left), Secretary General of the Eastern Economic Corridor Office; Mr. Anont Luangboriboon (right), Acting Governor of the State Railway of Thailand (SRT); and Mr. Jaray Roongthanee (left), SRT's Deputy Governor for Infrastructure, provided information and answered questions from more than 300 Thai and international investors at the event held at Sheraton Grande Sukhumvit Hotel, Bangkok.

27/3/2018 http://www.thaipr.net/general/848843


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## In Fra Structure

Wisarut said:


> Cabinet approving PPP Net Cost investment on High Speed train connecting 3 airports with total distance of 220 km - with fares as follows: Makkasan to Pataya at 270 Baht and Makkasan to U-Tapao at 330 Baht
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHUIMpNzuIM#t=540s
> https://www.khaosod.co.th/economics/news_892185
> http://m.thansettakij.com/content/272120
> https://www.posttoday.com/economy/545831
> 
> High Speed train down South should not just stop short at Hua Hin, it must be extended all the way to Surat Thani via Chumporn as the way to support tourist business in Chumporn (Koh Tao) and Surat Thani (Koh Samui - Koh Pha Ngan) - fully justified as it is still within the appropriate distance of 500 - 800 km - This is going to please Billionaire Charoen of Beer Chang for sure as he badly want this high speed train to support his real estate project at Cha Am or so
> https://www.dailynews.co.th/economic/634356




I was at the Rail Asia Expo & Rise Symposium yesterday and received an update from the Ministry of Transport & SRT. The HSR Medium Term Plan is Bangkok to Hua Hin and the Long Term Plan is Hua Hin to Surat Thani to Padang Basar (759kms).


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## MerynnTrant

call me crazy but I would like to see a high speed rail way project between Thailand and Burma. It would better integrate the Burmese economy to the Thai one.


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## Wisarut

MerynnTrant said:


> call me crazy but I would like to see a high speed rail way project between Thailand and Burma. It would better integrate the Burmese economy to the Thai one.


Better wait until Thailand has approved the construction of the line from either 
(1) Tha Kilen to Phu Namron checkpoint before crossing the Border to Dawei or (2) Nakhon Sawan - Kamphaeng Phet - Tak - Mae Sod checkpoint before crossing the border to Mawlamyine to get the right of the way first

Alternatively, waiting until the high speed line to Chiang Mai via Phitsanuloke done first before branching out from Sukhothai to Tak and Mae Sod


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## CItricash

MerynnTrant said:


> call me crazy but I would like to see a high speed rail way project between Thailand and Burma. It would better integrate the Burmese economy to the Thai one.


Are you burmese?  mingalaba


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## Wisarut

MerynnTrant said:


> call me crazy but I would like to see a high speed rail way project between Thailand and Burma. It would better integrate the Burmese economy to the Thai one.


BTW, the border dispute at Singkhon along with Three Pagoda Pass has prevented Thailand from upgrading Singkhon Checkpoint in Prachuab Khirikhan and Thee Pagoda checkpoint in Kanchanaburi into full fledged International Checkpoint like Ranong - Kaw Thaung, Maesod - Myowadee, Phunamron-Tiki village, and Maesai - Takhilek.

For the case of Phunamron, 36km of railway from Tha Kilen station to Phunamron checkpoint are in need - not to mention about 29km Kanchanaburi bypass from Wang Yen to Tha Ruea Noy since the existing bridge across Kwae Yai at Tha Makham cannot accept heavy load along with some double tracking as necessary while the route from Nakhon Sawan to Mae Sod need 257 km of new line along Ping river and Highway 12 to be constructed


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## CItricash

^^^^
I'm talking with MerynnTrant not uncle wisarut :nuts:


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## Wisarut

MoT going to submit the plan fpr High Speed train from Bangsue central to Phitsanuloke to get cabinet approval in May 2018 along with Phase 2 double tracking on 9 routes including the new line like Denchai - Chiang Rai - Chiang Khong and Ban Phai - Roy Ed - Nakhon Phanom
https://www.dailynews.co.th/economic/636861


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## gogreent

Wisarut said:


> Due to the EIA issue on the section from U-Tapao to Rayong, the High speed train to connect 3 airports will start from U-Tapao to Donmuang - but need EEC Board to approve the TOR for this PPP net cost project with 50 year concession first in Feb 2018 and they will issue the invitation letters to private section in July 2018 before signing contract in August 2018 with a hope to start the service in 2023 - and first year passengers at 169550 passengers a day with investment plan of 236,700 Million Baht
> 
> Government need to spend 3600 million Baht for land expropriation to create triangle track at Lad Krabang along with the section out of railway land while private section need to come up with commercial development on 9 stations with total distance of 220 km including
> 
> Donmuang - near Donmuang Airport
> Bangsue - at Bangsue Central
> Makkasan - at Makksan Central + 140 rai of land around Makkasan Central
> Suvannabhum at Suvannabhum station of Airport link
> Chachoengsao - at the new place 1 km North of existing Chachoengsao Junction
> Chonburi - either at existing Chonburi station or the new precinct
> Sri Racha - either at existing Sri Racha station or the new precinct
> Pataya - either at existing Pataya station or the new precinct
> U Tapao at U Tapao airport
> 
> https://www.prachachat.net/property/news-110285
> http://www.thansettakij.com/content/248892




Hi Wisarut, for Sriracha station will it be in the existing or new place?


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## Wisarut

gogreent said:


> Hi Wisarut, for Sriracha station will it be in the existing or new place?


Well, it is supposed to be at the existing Sri Racha Junction - unless the concession holder making the otherwise decision.


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## gogreent

Wisarut said:


> Well, it is supposed to be at the existing Sri Racha Junction - unless the concession holder making the otherwise decision.


Ok..Thanks! Hope no any changes.


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## Wisarut

PTT - BTS - STECON now making a consortium to obtain the 50-year concession on High Speed train connecting 3 airports (Donmueang - Suvannabhum - U-Tapao) with total distance of 220 km and a price tag of 224 billion Baht with the bidding in May 2018, picking the winner in November 2018 and opened the service in 2023
Note: CK and BEM along with ITD are going to fight to get this 50-year concession on High Speed train connecting 3 airports (Donmueang - Suvannabhum - U-Tapao) 
https://mgronline.com/business/detail/9610000040924
https://mgronline.com/daily/detail/9610000040979
https://www.dailynews.co.th/economic/640065


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## Wisarut

Airport Link high speed train has become one of the project which JBIC is going to cooperate with both Thai government and Mainland Chinese government to realize the project - along with other projects within Eastern Economic Corridor - the expanding Eastern Seaboard that cover the whole Eastern region - this is the way Japanese government to gain something from the rising economic influence of Mainland China in Thailand - definitely offering a cheap loan but Chinese contractors and supplier of EMUs have to purchase something from Japan in return for that CHEAP LOAN.
http://www.tnamcot.com/view/5aea9784e3f8e40acdc45fdb
https://mgronline.com/politics/detail/9610000043510

Way to turn this 224 billion Baht High Speed train that connect 3 airports with the distance of 226km into a money maker project. We have to pay serious attention since PTT-BTS-STECON-CK is going to form consortium with Japanese - European firm to invest this project while CP is going to form alliance with China Construction and Chinese banks to win this 50-year concession project with a price tag of 224 billion Baht. 

For the normal firms, Creditors would would require a price of 6% per year for this 224 billion Baht loan - just interest alone would cost 12 billion Baht

Even with 30-50 year concession, it would not be a good investment if there is not enough revenue in first 20-30 year - 240-360 billion Baht interest burden.

However, creditors would grant a loan with price tag of 2.5-3% a year - which is about 6 billion Baht - Still not a good investment if there is not enough revenue in first 20-30 year - 100- 120 billion Baht interest burden.

With such a high cost of loan, the big investors must come up with some money maker scheme to cover the cost. After all, they know that the ticket price of 1000-1500 Baht per trip with the annual number of passengers at 1 million Baht means the revenue of 1-1.5 billion Baht a year - even after 3 trips a year, the revenue would be 4.5 billion Baht - still not enough to pay the loan interests. 

It is the real estate investment which will give enough revenue to pay off the loan - First government would cover the construction cost at 120 billion Baht from the expected construction cost of 160 billion Baht. There will be investment on Makksan (140 rai) and Sri Racha (30 rai) at 45.155 billion Baht - with 3.787 billion Baht for land expropriation 

Those private concession holder have to invest on land development around Donmueang station, Bangsue Central, Makkasan, Suvannabhum (well within station area though), Chachoengsao, Chonburi, Sri Racha, Pataya and U-Tapao

Makkasan has been designated as gateway to EEC and those concession holder have full right to deal with existing Airport Link, park and ride. There are 4 zones to handle 

1) Zone A - business area on 139.82 rai of land including existing Makksan station, Hotel, convention center, seminar center, shopping mall along with park and ride - this one is the main focus.

2) Zone B (the later package) - Office on 179,2 Rai of land with the new Makkasan tower, business center, office center, banks, and Industrial estate of Thailand

3) Zone C (the later package) - urban resident area (the old railway worker and officer houses), hospital (definitely the new hospital on the existing Railway hospital to be at the level closed to Bumrungraj Hospital, international school and exhibition center)

4) Zone D (the later package) - Railway museum on 38,6 rai of land that brick building of Ror For Phor 2465 and the factory building 2471 with 15 rai of land as a park.

This is definitely the main boost - the money makers that justify the 224 billion Baht loan at the first place.

Sri Racha is distribution center and a big warehouse for Laem Chabang deep sea port and there are already 5000 Japanese residents in Sri Racha which has become Osaka of Thailand. Certainly, those landlords have hoarded the land around Sri Racha and wait for this High Speed train to kick start their real estate projects.


http://www.thansettakij.com/content/278408


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## Sellemantz

So the train will be 250kmh ?


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## Wisarut

Sellemantz said:


> So the train will be 250kmh ?


Just a necessary to be that way to cut the cost with an acceptable speed.


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## Appleich

Thailand's $7bn railway draws Siemens and Bombardier
Bangkok also invites Asian bidders for Eastern Economic Corridor

Apornrath Phoonphongphiphat | Nikkei Asian Review | May 08, 2018 23:31 JST

BANGKOK -- Thailand plans an auction in June for a high-speed rail project to link the country's three major international airports, with Germany's Siemens and Bombardier of Canada regarded as two of the leading potential bidders.

More details: https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Thailand-s-7bn-railway-draws-Siemens-and-Bombardier


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## Wisarut

Private sectors of Rayong including Rayong Chamber of Commerce lamenting that High Speed train connecting with 3 Airport would not be good for Rayong due to the decision to cut the section from U-Tapao to Rayong out to Phase 2 expansion - a Big Loss of opportunities.
Note: What a Nonsense. Where are you when SRT and MOT along with OTP are doing an EIA for this high speed train to connect 3 airport? You ask for High Speed train but refuse to help the government to deal with those lobbyists who want to terminate the line at Map Ta Phut for their selfish gain as well as the issue of pollution in Map Taphut during the construction of the land as well as land expropriation? Those who take neutral ground during the time of crises would not deserve to get what they want at all, how shameful!
https://mgronline.com/local/detail/9610000049455

Ready for bidding for High Speed train connecting 3 airports with a total distance of 220 km and a price tag of 220 billion Baht after Eastern Economic Corridor (EEC) Act has become a law of the land - 

SRT is going to sell the bidding form in June 2018 after issuing the invitation notes to Embassies in Bangkok along with other foreign and domestic investors by the end of May 2018 and call the bidding in November 2018 to get the winner by the end of 2018 or first quarter of 2019 due the long negotiation with the winner of bidding due to the fact that it is the Joint Venture between public sector and private sectors which involved in hundred billions Baht question.

SRT is drafting the decree for land expropriation which will take only little section due to the fact that 95% of this line will be on Railway land - with the real exception for Chachoengsao station along with Depot and Maintainance center at Chachoengsao on 100 rai (40 Acres or 16 Hectares) of land 

https://www.prachachat.net/economy/news-160423


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## Wisarut

Wall Street Journal Mentioned about High Speed train to Khorat as a part of Thai - Lao - China Railway
https://www.wsj.com/articles/railro...n-network-no-one-else-really-wants-1526644804


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## Wisarut

Bidding for 5,000 million Baht Sikiw - Kudjik section of Thai - China High Speed train started in June 2018
However, all 14 contracts of Thai - China High Speed train with total price tag of 179,412 Million Baht would not be fully started all sections by the end of December 2018 due to land expropriation issue - So far, only 1 out of 14 civil work contracts with total price tags of 122,593 Million Baht have been started 

Section one is permanent way with total distance of 3.5 km from Klang Dong to Pang Asok with a price tag of 425 million Baht by Highway Dept has been started since 2 March 2018 and now it is 7.32% done - still digging for proper drainage and landslide protection wall along with weight testing - still on the stage of purchasing construction materials - to be done in September 2018, just on time when section 2 got the contractor to handle Sikiw - Kudjik section.

Section 3 from Kaeng Khoi to Khorat via Bundai Mah and Khok Kruad with the distance of 119.5 km with a price tag of 57,905.02 Million Baht - still inspecting the construction blueprints from China - and there will be 5 contracts for Section 3 to be on bidding in August 2018 including 1 contract for 2 tunnels in Muak Lek section and Lam Takhong reservoir section with total distance of 15 km and total price tag of 10,000 Million Baht - this tunnel at Lam Takhong reservoir section is due to the issue of area vulnerable to landslide which require deep tunnel of 10-20 meter than original plan and cause the cost overrun from 9000 million Baht to 10000 million Baht 

Section 4 from Bangsue Central to Kaeng Khoi including Bangsue - Donmueang - Nava Nakhon Industrial Estate - Chiang Rak Noy (km 56 - near Pratoo Nam Phra In community) - Bang Pho - Prakaew - Saraburi - Kaeng Khoi with 6 contracts with total price tag of 58,932.79 Million Baht including a short tunnel of less than 1 km at Pha Sadet - Hinlap - still need to inspect for land expropriation - still waiting for Chinese consultants to design the this section to be submitted in June 2018 to get the real detailed scrutiny by Thai consultants before calling the bidding for 6 contracts of section 4 in September 2018 

https://www.prachachat.net/property/news-162805

Sending invitation notes for High Speed train for connecting 3 airports with total distance of 220 km and a price tag of 220 billion Baht to potential investors on 24 May 2018 before selling the bidding Form in June 2018 
and call a bidding in November 2018 to get the winner by the end of December 2018 or early 2019 due to the long negotiation after the end of bidding process since it is the big JV by public sector and private sector 
At least BTSC and CP along with Thai Bev are competing and rivaling to get this 50-year concession as it allows the potential real estate development along High Speed train line and high speed train stations -
not to mention about foreign investors since it allows up to 51% foreigner ownership of this 50-year concession with possible 49 year extension of concession
https://www.prachachat.net/economy/news-163321
https://www.prachachat.net/economy/news-160361


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## Wisarut

Government going to invite private sectors to make JV on High Speed train that connect 3 airports

PTT going to joint with BTSC 
CP going to form an alliance with CITIC Limited from China (conglomerate) and Itoshu (Japanese trading firm)
Furthermore, Sansiri is joining with Tokyu Group from Japan which has experienced in construction of railway line along with real estate - already become alliance with Sansiri due to the experience in condo development in Sri Racha - and Sri Racha junction along with Makkasan central are next on the line while Smart city is further goal. Tokyu has picked up CK PCL as a local contractor partner due to Japanese connection (owners of CK has graduated from Engineering school in Japan) 
Siemens and Alsthom are going to invest on this 
SCB and K-Bank are going to underwrite this project.

The TOR implied that it has allowed Chinese investor to invest up to 75% of shareholders - through crossed shareholdings 

High Speed train that connect 3 airports consists of:
1. Existing Airport Link - 28.5 km - to be subsidized by the government at 22,558.06 million Baht
2. Airport link extension to Donmueang - 21 km
3. High Speed train from Suvannabhum to U-Tapao via Pataya - extensions and high speed train line will cost investors at 168,718 Million Baht
4. Leasing of 150 Rai (24 Hectares) of Makkasan Central along with 25 Rai (4 hectares) of Sri Racha Junction with permission for real estate developments.
5. 10,671.09 million Baht for reorganizing Airport link in exchange for coming to deal with existing airport link to improve the services
the total price tag is 224,544.36 Million Baht

the bidding forms will consist of 4 sections
1. General qualification bidding form 
2. Technical bidding including the past projects, the design, the experience on running high speed train
3, Financial bidding - the concession payment along with subsidies they need from the government along with 10 year installment plan to pay back the subsidies.
4. Special offer bidding including EMUs the development to enhance number of passengers - invested all by private sectors 

this has followed EEC Act which has been approved 

the schedule will be as follows:
30 May - 17 June 2018: Announcement for invitation for international bidding - to get the winner by the end of 2018
18 June - 9 July 2018: Selling bidding forms
10 July - 9 October 2018: the bidders submitting Questions about this project
10 July - 30 October 2018: the answers to those bidders who submitted questions
23 July 2018: First meeting with those who purchase bidding forms
24 July 2018: the bidders come to see the existing Airport Link area as well as the plan for further extension to Donmueang and U-Tapao
24 September 2018: Second meeting
12 November 2018: submitting the bidding forms
By the end of 2018: the final negotiation results revealed before signing the contract for 50 year concession with economic benefit of 700 billion Baht

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEUHz7s0YBY
https://mgronline.com/business/detail/9610000051535
https://www.prachachat.net/property/news-165581
https://www.khaosod.co.th/economics/news_1128514


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## Appleich

*Eastern High-speed Railway (Three-Airport Rail Link) is taking shape:*










Source: [1], [2]


> High-speed Airport Rail Link Auction Shapes Up
> 
> Chatrudee Theparat and Lamonphet Apisitniran | Bangkok Post | 24 May 2018 at 04:09
> 
> *Participants are scheduled to submit their bidding prices over the next couple of weeks, and the winning bidders may be announced by July.*
> 
> The railway project entails extending Bangkok's Airport Rail Link, which runs to Suvarnabhumi airport in Samut Prakan province, to connect to Don Mueang airport in northern Bangkok and U-tapao airport in Rayong province. The entire route will stretch 220km, with the train reaching a maximum speed of 250kph. The route comprises nine high-speed stations: Don Mueang, Bang Sue, Makkasan, Suvarnabhumi, Chachoengsao, Chon Buri, Sri Racha, Pattaya and U-tapao.The project is expected to become operational in the next five years.
> 
> More details: https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/tourism-and-transport/1471549/high-speed-airport-link-auction-shapes-up





> 5 Big Bidders Eye Airport Link
> 
> Lamonphet Apisitniran | Bangkok Post | 25 May 2018 at 06:44
> 
> *Five giant bidders are expected to join the upcoming auction of the 224.54-billion-baht high-speed railway linking Don Mueang, Suvarnabhumi and U-tapao airports, says Industry Minister Uttama Savanayana.*
> 
> But he declined to disclose the company's names, saying only that the project has been in the cross-hairs of several local and foreign investors. These are likely to include BSR Joint Venture, a consortium of BTS Group Holdings Plc (75%), Sino-Thai Engineering and Construction Plc (15%) and Ratchaburi Electricity Generating Holding Plc (10%). PTT Group and Charoen Pokphand Group have also expressed their intention to join the auction and seek investment partners, along with firms from Japan and China.
> 
> More details: https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/tourism-and-transport/1472181/5-big-bidders-eye-airport-link


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## Wisarut

More and More vested interests in Rayong have petitioned to restored the high speed train section to Rayong after EIA has cut short to U Tapao Airport - 
Note: Where a heck are you when we need to do EIA to deal with High speed train connecting 3 airports ? Your failure to defense EIA on the section from U-Tapao to Rayong have forced the government to cut short the routes -
https://www.thairath.co.th/content/1295751

During the 24th meeting of Thai - CHina Railway, Speed up the design for Thai - China High Speed train with a distance of 252.35 km and a price tag of 179,412.21 Million Baht so as to call a bidding for section 2 in November 2018 and started all 14 sections by April 2019 along with the negotiation for the way to finance the section from Khorat to Nong Khai along with the new parallel railway bridge across Mekhong to Viengchan.

At the time being, the first section of 14 section - the permanent way from Klang dong to Pang asok with the total distance of 3.5 km still goes well - now Chinese has sent the consultant engineer to control and inspect the work to be in line with Chinese specification with a hope to be done in August 2018. 

For the design of all 14 sections, it has to be done on 8 June 2018 - and Chinese architects have revised the design for section 2 is from Si Kiw to Kudjik with the distance of 11 km and SRT will decode so as to come up with the appropriate price to call a bidding in August 2018 to start section in November 2018 - with TOR according to procurement act of 2017 

For the other 12 section, section 3 to 7 will call a bidding in September 2108 so as to start the construction in March 2019 while section 8 to 14 will be on bidding in November 2018 so as to start the construction in April 2019

For the issue of blacklisting ITD due to panther incident, it is up to Comptroller General to decide 

For the case of Phase 2 from Khorat to Nong Khai with the distance of 353 km, Thai architects and engineers will make detailed design by themselves with Chinese advisers to connect with Lao - China Railway - with a hope to get preliminary design by the end of 2018 so as to start the construction in September 2019 and Chinese wants to speed up Khorat - Nong Khai section to allow traffic to commerce at the same time.

For the issue of Nong Khai -Viengchan section, Chinese will be the one who handle studies and designs with trilateral meeting to define the point along with station on Lao side - So far, both Thai and China agree in principal that the new railway bridge will be 30 meter east of existing First Friendship Bridge - with the railway bridge can handle both standard gauge train and meter gauge train while there will be no more rail traffic on the existing first friendship bridge - just for road traffic only. 

For the electromechanic and platelaying along with EMU and training, the negotiation about the details have not been settled yet.
Now, Chinese MoF is going to send the contract, the loan interest rates and conditions along with the issue of breaching the contract and lawsuits to confiscate the asset of project - According to Thai laws, any breaching will extended the project with condition of the condition beyond controls and natural disasters - need to be settled by August 2018. If the negotiation failed, MoF will find the new financial sources other than Chinese loan - and the results from negotiation on EMU loan will be submitted to cabinet in September 2018. 


Here is the list of 14 contracts
Contract 1 - Permanent ways from Klang Dong to Pang Asok with total distance of 3.5 km by Highway Dept. to be done in August 2018
Contract 2 - Sikiw - Kudjik with total distance of 11 km - to be on bidding in August 2018 and construction started in November 2018
Contract 3 - Khon Kaeng - Bundai Mah with total distance of 32 km
Contract 4 - Muak Lek - Lam Takhon with total distance of 11,7 km 
Contract 5 - Buntai Mah - Lam Takhon with total distance of 24.8 km
Contract 6 - Lam Takhong - Khok Kruad with total distance of 37.6 km 
Contract 7 - Khok Kruad - Nakhon Ratchasima including the new station building for High Speed train with total distance of 13,7 km - all to be called a bidding in September 2018 to January 2019

Contract 8 - Bangsue - Donmueang with total distance of 11 km - the biggest bone of contention due to red line commuter 
Contract 9 - Donmueang - Nava Nakhon with total distance of 26 km 
Contract 10 - Nava Nakhon - Ban Pho with total distance of 23 km
Contract 11 - Chiang Rak Noy - Depot
Contract 12 - Ban Pho - Phra Khaew including Ayutthaya station for High Speed train with total distance of 14.4 km
Contract 13 - Phra Kaew - Saraburi including the new Saraburi station near Robinson Saraburi 
Contract 14 - Saraburi - Kaeng Khoi - 13 km

Let see the result for negotiation on the 25th meeting from 8 to 10 August 2018 in Beijing

https://www.innnews.co.th/breaking-news/news_100611/
https://mgronline.com/business/detail/9610000054555


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## Wisarut

7 firms purchasing bidding forms for High Speed train connecting 3 airports (Donmueang - Phayathai 21.6 km, Phayathai - Suvannabhum 28.5 km and Suvannabhum - U-Tapao 170 km)
 
1) BTSC Group Holding 
2) Charoen Phokkaphan Holding Co. Ltd.  
3) Italian Thai Development PCL
4) Unique Engineering and Construction PCL
5) Energy Complex Co Ltd - Real estate Arms of PTT PCL and PTT Exploration PCL
6) Itoshu Corp. Ltd. (Japanese trading firm)
7) Sinohydro Corporation Limited

the bidding form will be sold until 9 July 2018 - and the first meeting will be held on 23 July 2018, the field inspection will be on 24 July 2018
- the second meeting on 24 September 2018 - the questions will be asked from 10 July to 9 October 2018
the bidding forms will be submitted on 12 Nov 2018

the winner will be declared in December 2018 and one month negotiation will be held until early 2019 before signing the contract 

the total project price tags are: 224,544.36 Million Baht including 
1) Investment on extension to Donmuang and U-Tapao at 168,718 Million Baht
2) Investment on the existing Airport LInk (signal and rolling stocks) at 10,671.09 Million Baht (Government will take care of existing Airport Link infrastructure at 22,558.06 Million Baht)
3) Land Development on 150 rai of Makkasan Central + 25 Rai of Sri Racha station at 45,155.27 Million Baht 
https://www.dailynews.co.th/economic/649995
http://efinancethai.com/LastestNews/LatestNewsMain.aspx?ref=A&id=WDBNcGhtbTBJR3c9&security=BTS
http://www.naewna.com/business/346183
https://www.ryt9.com/s/iq05/2843396
https://www.thairath.co.th/content/1311679
https://mgronline.com/business/detail/9610000060522
https://www.dailynews.co.th/economic/649995
https://www.dailynews.co.th/economic/649693

7 firms turn up for airport link auction 
19 Jun 2018 at 04:16 
NEWSPAPER SECTION: NEWS	| WRITER: THODSAPOL HONGTONG & OM JOTIKASTHIRA 

Seven bidders turned up at the first day of the auction process for the 224-billion-baht high-speed railway project Monday set to link Don Mueang, Suvarnabhumi and U-Tapao airports. 

The number of bidders has not been finalised yet. Both domestic and foreign firms can purchase project bidding papers at the State Railway of Thailand (SRT) until July 9. Each bidder needs to pay one million baht for bidding documents.

Of the seven firms listed by the SRT Monday, four had been widely expected by the media and investors to participate in the bidding. 

They are BTS Group Holdings Plc (BTSG), Charoen Pokphand Group (CP), Italian-Thai Development Plc (ITD) and PTT Plc (PTT). 

The other three are Japanese trading company Itochu Corporation, Chinese state enterprise Sinohydro and Unique Construction & Engineering Plc, an established local contractor. The next step from July to October allows bidding firms to ask questions about the project.
https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/1487834/7-firms-turn-up-for-airport-link-auction
https://www.eeco.or.th/en/project/infrastructure-development/high-speed-train


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## Wisarut

Wisarut said:


> 7 firms purchasing bidding forms for High Speed train connecting 3 airports (Donmueang - Phayathai 21.6 km, Phayathai - Suvannabhum 28.5 km and Suvannabhum - U-Tapao 170 km)
> 
> 1) BTSC Group Holding
> 2) Charoen Phokkaphan Holding Co. Ltd.
> 3) Italian Thai Development PCL
> 4) Unique Engineering and Construction PCL
> 5) Energy Complex Co Ltd - Real estate Arms of PTT PCL and PTT Exploration PCL
> 6) Itoshu Corp. Ltd. (Japanese trading firm)
> 7) Sinohydro Corporation Limited
> 
> the bidding form will be sold until 9 July 2018 - and the first meeting will be held on 23 July 2018, the field inspection will be on 24 July 2018
> - the second meeting on 24 September 2018 - the questions will be asked from 10 July to 9 October 2018
> the bidding forms will be submitted on 12 Nov 2018
> 
> the winner will be declared in December 2018 and one month negotiation will be held until early 2019 before signing the contract
> 
> the total project price tags are: 224,544.36 Million Baht including
> 1) Investment on extension to Donmuang and U-Tapao at 168,718 Million Baht
> 2) Investment on the existing Airport LInk (signal and rolling stocks) at 10,671.09 Million Baht (Government will take care of existing Airport Link infrastructure at 22,558.06 Million Baht)
> 3) Land Development on 150 rai of Makkasan Central + 25 Rai of Sri Racha station at 45,155.27 Million Baht
> https://www.dailynews.co.th/economic/649995
> http://efinancethai.com/LastestNews/LatestNewsMain.aspx?ref=A&id=WDBNcGhtbTBJR3c9&security=BTS
> http://www.naewna.com/business/346183
> https://www.ryt9.com/s/iq05/2843396
> https://www.thairath.co.th/content/1311679
> https://mgronline.com/business/detail/9610000060522
> https://www.dailynews.co.th/economic/649995
> https://www.dailynews.co.th/economic/649693


Now, STECON has become the 8th bidder for High Speed train connecting 3 Airports
https://mgronline.com/business/detail/9610000061424


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## Appleich

Bids Sought for $5.5 Billion Thailand to China High-Speed Rail

• Total cost for first phase of the project is 180 billion baht
• Contract part of wider plan for rail line from Bangkok to Laos

Natnicha Chuwiruch | Bloomberg | June 25, 2018, 4:00 AM GMT+7

*Thailand will seek bids in the fourth-quarter for a 180 billion baht ($5.5 billion) high-speed rail project that’s part of a wider plan for a train network to China.*

The bidder will build the first half of the network in Thailand, Minister of Transport Arkhom Termpittayapaisith said in an interview Thursday. His ministry expects to receive detailed designs this month from China, its partner for the project, before approving them in August to kick start the bidding process for the 253-kilometer (157-mile) route.

More details: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-24/bids-sought-for-5-5-billion-thailand-to-china-high-speed-rail


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## Wisarut

China Railway Group Co. Ltd. has jointe the bidding for High Speed train connecting 3 airports

15 firms are now bidding for High Speed train connecting 3 airports
1) BTSC PCL
2) CP Holding CO Ltd
3) ITD PCL
4) Unique Engineering and Construction CPL
5) Energy Complex Co. Ltd.
6) Itochu Co.Ltd.
7) Sinohydro Corporation Limited
8) STECON PCL
9) BEM PCL
10) Fujita Corp.
11) C. Karnchang PCL
12) China Railway Construction Corporation Limited
13) Ratchaburi Powerplant Holding PCL
14) TPi Polene PCL
15) China Railway Group Co. Ltd. 
https://www.prachachat.net/property/news-183405


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## Wisarut

In the last day of purchasing the bidding forms, the number of bidders for High Speed train connecting 3 airports has been tallyed up to 31 firms
1) BTSC PCL
2) CP Holding CO Ltd
3) ITD PCL
4) Unique Engineering and Construction CPL
5) Energy Complex Co. Ltd.
6) Itochu Co.Ltd. from Japan
7) Sinohydro Corporation Limited
8) STECON PCL
9) BEM PCL
10) Fujita Corp. from Japan
11) C. Karnchang PCL
12) China Railway Construction Corporation Limited from Mainland China
13) Ratchaburi Powerplant Holding PCL
14) TPi Polene PCL
15) China Railway Group Co. Ltd. from Mainland China
16) China Communications Construction Company Limited from Mainland China
17) China Resources (Holdings) Company Limited from Mainland China
18) CITIC Group Corporation from Mainland China
19) Korea-Thai High-Speed Railroad Consortium Inc. 
20) Thoed Damri Co. Ltd. 
21) Salini Impregio S.p.A. from Italy
22) Hitachi Asia (Thailand) Co. Ltd. from Japan
23) TRANSDEV GROUP from France
24) SNCF INTERNATIONAL from France
25) Japan Overseas Infrastructure Investment Corporation for Transport & Urban Development from Japan
26) Power Line Engineering PCL 
27) Central Patthana PCL.
28) LMT Stone Co. Ltd.
29) Wannasser Internationnal Green Hub Berhad from Malaysia 
30) China State Construction Engineering Corportation Limited from Mainland China
31) MRCB Builders SDN. BHD. from Malaysia 
https://www.prachachat.net/property/news-187267


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## Wisarut

SRT has allocated 7,210.67 Million Baht budget as a compensation for the private sector who won the bidding for 50 year concession for High Speed train connecting 3 Airports with a distance of 220 km and price tag of 224.544.36 million Baht for the extra works on the section from Bangsue Central to Donmueang to accommodate the nearly finished red line commuter along with Thai - China High Speed train to Khorat and Thai - Japan High Speed train to Phitsanuloke which are going to share the same space.

Furthermore, the 7,210.67 Million Baht budget as a compensation will also have to cover the section from Bangsue Central to Makkasan so as to accommodate the red line commuter which have to be extended to Bangkok railway terminus at 
Hua Lamphong and Hua Mark (AKA the missing link) during the inspection tour to Makkasan central and existing Airport Link along with the line from Donmuang all the way to U-Tapao airport.

the section around Chitladda Royal station would be dry ditch for about 3 km and the bidding for missing link will start in early 2019

the section near Donmueang also have to be stagged since Thai China Railway and Thai - Japan railway would refuse to make track sharing 

For the land expropriation, the budget will be 3500 million Baht to pay for 254 households who have to move out which cover 550 Rai for Chachoengsao - 380 Rai is for Depot while about 100 Rai is for the High SPeed train track and the other
70 Rai is for Chachoengsao High SPeed train station - this section alone requires 2900 million Baht - the other 600 million Baht is to create triangle at Lad Krabang to allow the high speed trains to enter into Suvannabhum Airport along with 
U-Tapao airport on 850 rai of land.


MoT reviewing the plan for High Speed train to Phitsanuloke (380 km with a price tag of 276 Billion Baht) after learning that it has fallen short for the daily number of passengers - need to be at least 30000 passengers a day to break even and 4-50000 passengers a day to make money but the estimated number is just about 10000 passengers a day - Therefore, the land development around the stations along with facilities to connect with existing railway lines that function along with mass transit system to function as feeders have become mandate.

the plan would be just like 30-year concession for Pink Monorail and Yellow Monorail - 

Need to do land expropriation now since any further delay will cost more due to the rising interest rates after economic recovery
https://m.mgronline.com/business/detail/9610000073787


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## cheehg

Wisarut said:


> MoT reviewing the plan for High Speed train to Phitsanuloke (380 km with a price tag of 276 Billion Baht) after learning that it has fallen short for the daily number of passengers - need to be at least 30000 passengers a day to break even and 4-50000 passengers a day to make money but the estimated number is just about 10000 passengers a day - Therefore, the land development around the stations along with facilities to connect with existing railway lines that function along with mass transit system to function as feeders have become mandate.
> 
> https://m.mgronline.com/business/detail/9610000073787


30000 passenger is about 60 trains a days for a 8-car set (500-650 passengers per train). So it is 30 pairs. every 30 mins one direction. 

I think depends the ticket price, it will need at least 40-50 pairs of trains to make operational profits. If Thai state pays for the construction cost, the operation company pays royalty.


----------



## Appleich

*Eastern High-speed Railway (EEC HSR; Bangkok - U-tapao International Airport):*


> Thailand's $7bn rail project draws 31 local and foreign bidders
> Companies likely to form joint ventures for Eastern Economic Corridor link
> 
> Apornrath Phoonphongphiphat | Nikkei Asian Review | July 10, 2018 18:28 JST
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BANGKOK - Thirty-one companies from Thailand and abroad have expressed interest in bidding for the right to build the country's first high-speed railway, which will link three major airports.*
> 
> "This shows that the high-speed train project is much-awaited ... [and] has interested many Thai and foreign companies. I am surprised there are some Asian companies joining the bidding, particularly from South Korea and Malaysia," said Pairin Chuchotethavorn, Thailand's deputy minister of transport. The State Railway of Thailand, the state-owned railway operator, is overseeing the bidding process. Between June 18 and July 9, a total of 31 companies bought the document outlining the terms of reference for the project.
> 
> There are 14 Thai companies considering a bid, along with seven Chinese companies, four Japanese, two French, two Malaysian, one Italian and one consortium from South Korea, according to a statement from SRT. Among the Thai bidders are well-known conglomerates, such as food processor Charoen Pokphand Group and BTS Group Holdings, which operates Bangkok's Skytrain elevated railway. Multinational corporations, including Japan's Hitachi and SNCF, the French state-owned railway operator, have also expressed interest. Chinese bidders include China Resources and China Railway. Germany's Siemens and Bombardier of Canada, two companies that had showed interest earlier this year, withdrew from the bidding. According to SRT, officials from the Eastern Economic Corridor, an investment zone, and the railway operator will meet with representatives of the 31 bidders on July 24 for a briefing. SRT will also conduct a tour of construction sites on July 26. The deadline for submitting bids is Nov. 12.
> 
> More details: https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Thailand-s-7bn-rail-project-draws-31-local-and-foreign-bidders


_Note: these participatory entities are not individual bidders. They are part of groups, partnerships or consortium but required by SRT to buy term of reference (TOR) envelopes separately._

*Northeastern High-speed Railway (Thai - Chinese HSR; Bangkok - Nakhon Ratchasima):*


> High-speed rail bidding plans on track
> 2nd section auction set for next month
> 
> Bangkok Post | 27 Jul 2018 at 02:25
> 
> *Bidding on the construction contract for the second section of the 252.35-km Bangkok to Nakhon Ratchasima Thai-Chinese high-speed rail project will take place in August as planned.*
> 
> The 11-km second section is one of four in the first phase of an overall project that will see a second phase stretch from Nakhon Ratchasima to Nong Khai. The Chinese have already sent a construction plan for the 11-km second section, from Sikhiu district to tambon Kut Chik in Sung Noen district in Nakhon Ratchasima province, said Thanin Somboon, director-general of the Department of Highways. The Thai side at this point has requested some minor changes in the construction plan and the Chinese are expected to send back a revised version within the month, he said. This means bidding for the construction contract for the second section should take place next month as planned, he said.
> 
> Designing the construction plan for the third section, stretching 119km long from Kaeng Khoi district of Saraburi to Nakhon Ratchasima, is a work in progress, he said. China is expected to submit the draft of this section soon for inspection and possible revision, he said, adding that bidding for the construction of this section of line is expected to take place some time between September and January next year. Construction of the Kaeng Khoi-Nakhon Ratchasima section is planned to begin in March next year, he said. The fourth and last section, also 119-km long from Bangkok to Kaeng Khoi, is also in the construction planning stage, he said, adding that bidding for the construction of this section is expected between November this year and March next year. Construction of the fourth section is planned to begin in April next year, he said.
> 
> More details: https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/tourism-and-transport/1510642/high-speed-rail-bidding-plans-on-track


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## Wisarut

cheehg said:


> 30000 passenger is about 60 trains a days for a 8-car set (500-650 passengers per train). So it is 30 pairs. every 30 mins one direction.
> 
> I think depends the ticket price, it will need at least 40-50 pairs of trains to make operational profits. If Thai state pays for the construction cost, the operation company pays royalty.


Maximum from Donmuang to U-Tapao or Pataya is just 500 Baht
For the case of Phtisanuloke and Chiang Mai, mass transit connections have become necessary including the case of connecting Ayutthaya city island with Ayutthaya station, Lopburi station at Pa Wai with downtown Lopburi city and Phra Phutthabat, Nakhon Sawan at Nong Ping with downtown Nakhon Sawan, Phitsanuloke station with bus terminal and Phitsanuloke Airport, Lampang with bus terminals and airport, Lamphun (separated province but considered as the Southern suburb of Chiang Mai city) with either the future commuter or expanded LRT from Chiang Mai city and Chiang Mai terminus with the future LRT (blue line)


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## Wisarut

Ai Sisuwan raising the issue on Makkasan land that SRT has made the contract in the way to loss the oppotunity to gain 84 billion Baht more from the revenue of Makkasan land as a part High Speed train to link 3 airports as the way to undermine Junta government by indirectly attacking the goverment via SRT Governor who have to compile with the Government policy
https://www.prachachat.net/property/news-200286
https://www.prachachat.net/property/news-200049


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## Wisarut

Wisarut said:


> Private sectors of Rayong including Rayong Chamber of Commerce lamenting that High Speed train connecting with 3 Airport would not be good for Rayong due to the decision to cut the section from U-Tapao to Rayong out to Phase 2 expansion - a Big Loss of opportunities.
> Note: What a Nonsense. Where are you when SRT and MOT along with OTP are doing an EIA for this high speed train to connect 3 airport? You ask for High Speed train but refuse to help the government to deal with those lobbyists who want to terminate the line at Map Ta Phut for their selfish gain as well as the issue of pollution in Map Taphut during the construction of the land as well as land expropriation? Those who take neutral ground during the time of crises would not deserve to get what they want at all, how shameful!
> https://mgronline.com/local/detail/9610000049455
> More and More vested interests in Rayong have petitioned to restored the high speed train section to Rayong after EIA has cut short to U Tapao Airport -
> Note: Where a heck are you when we need to do EIA to deal with High speed train connecting 3 airports ? Your failure to defense EIA on the section from U-Tapao to Rayong have forced the government to cut short the routes -
> https://www.thairath.co.th/content/1295751


After the tussle between Industrial estate of Thailand who raised the issue not to construct the highspeed train to Rayong via Maptaphut vs. Rayong Chamber of Commerce, Governor of Rayong and Private sector of Rayong who keep pressing the government to construct High Speed train connecting 3 airports to Reach Rayong, EEC Board have to come up with the task force to deal with 30 km extension from U-Tapao Airport to Rayong with a distance of 30 - 40 km and a price tag of 10,000 Million Baht. This extension has to bypass Maptaphut industrial estate due to the issue with EIA - Need land expropriation to construct this extension along with Rayong station yard which is in between Highway 36 and local highway 3138 and it is 4 km from Downtown Rayong 

https://www.prachachat.net/property/news-200007


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## Wisarut

Permanent way of Section 1 (Klangdong - Pang Asok) with a distance of 3.5 km and a price tag of 425 Million Baht is 20% done - still delay from the goal 
the bidding for section 2 (Sikiw - Kudjik) with a distance of 11 km and a price tag of 5000 million Baht will be started in August 2018 so as to start the work in November 2018 
Chinese consultant is now working on designing 20 km tunnel from from Chanthuek to Klong Phai - definitely a cost overrun to 10,000 Million Baht - will be delivered to SRT in October 2018 and hope that the bidding on contract 3 will be started by December 2018
The other 11 contracts still on design while Thailand is asking China to deliver by the end of August 2018 so as to be decoded for bidding for the first 6 contracts in September 2018 so as to start the construction in March 2019 and the other 5 contracts in November 2018 so as to start in April 2019
For section from Nakhon Ratchasima to Nong Khai, the design will be done by Thai architects but Chinese architects will be advisers for detailed designs along with the design of EMUs - Hope that the studies will be done by the end of 2018 so the construction can be started by the end of 2019 and opened by the end of 2023.

For the progress on Thai - Japan railway from Bangsue Central to Phitsanuloke with a distance of 380 km, there is a big bone of contention that there are too few number of passengers - 29000 passengers a day along with the low benefits - need to apply commercial development around the station - need more land purchases but there is a risk with Phitsanuloke market along with communities around Phitsanuloke station which can cause the revolt. The construction can be started in 2020 - 2021 though and it will carry the price tag of 276,225 Million Baht. 

https://www.prachachat.net/property/news-203147


Agreement on 25th Thai - China Railway meeting signed including the agreement on detailed design, engineering control, platelaying, electric system, EMU and training, phase 2 construction from Khorat to Nong Khai along with the connection from Nong Khai to Viengchan , financial cooperation and High Speed train technology transfer 
http://www.thansettakij.com/content/305150


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## Wisarut

Public hearing on Thai - China Highspeed train phase 1 (Bangsue Central - Nakhon Ratchasima - 252.3 km with a price tag of 179 billion Baht) on 27 August 2018 at Simathanee Hotel - Hotel near Nakhon Ratchasima railway station - 190 km elevated track, 54.5 km at Grade 7.8 km tunnels at Muak Lek and Lam Takhong with EMU of 594 seats per set with max power at 5200 KW 250 kph max - running at 90 minute interval with 6 stations (Bangsue Central, Donmuang, Ayutthaya, Saraburi, Pakchong and Nakhon Ratchasima - ticket between 107 to 534 Baht per trip - using 80 + 1.8x travelling distance in km formula. This train will run from 6 AM to 10 PM so that the overnight express to Khorat would not be hurt - running at 90 minute headway to be opened in 2023

So far, Khorat people giving a positive response since most are elevated tracks within urban areas - still concern about how to design the stations to accommodate the massive double tracking to Nakhon Ratchasima and the way to connect with the local mass transit system - for the land expropriation, the widest would be at 80 meter wide to accommodate both double tracks and high speed train while the narrowest strip wil be in urban areas - High Speed train will be over the elevated track over the existing double tracking - elevated double track will be 16 meter height while the high speed train will have elevated track at 21 meter height - while the elevated sections and at grade section will be 7 - 22 meter

http://www.one31.net/news/detail/4070
https://www.facebook.com/horkorat/posts/1833147383401266
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhZVKvnAl9g 
http://www.bangkokbiznews.com/news/detail/811435



thanyakij said:


> (Captured from Video)
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Which one would you prefer - the old design vs the new design for Nakhon Ratchasima Railway station for both intercity and High speed train
https://www.facebook.com/KoratForumSkyscrapercity/posts/1877045655707398?__tn__=C-R
https://www.facebook.com/natakritnews/posts/1921743201197172?__tn__=C-R


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## cheehg

90 minutes interval is way too less traffic for a HSR line. It won't even cover the operational cost. The 200 km/h mixed traffic line will be more reasonable. A 252 km line makes only 15 minutes difference between 250 km/h and 200 km/h for a no stop train. It if will stop on all the stations there will be no difference at all. In this corridor one double line railway is enough.


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## Wisarut

cheehg said:


> 90 minutes interval is way too less traffic for a HSR line. It won't even cover the operational cost. The 200 km/h mixed traffic line will be more reasonable. A 252 km line makes only 15 minutes difference between 250 km/h and 200 km/h for a no stop train. It if will stop on all the stations there will be no difference at all. In this corridor one double line railway is enough.


Well, This is the first step - next is heading to Nong Khai, which has to be done and opened a year after opening section to Nakhon Ratchasima. *With the intercity buses that run 24 hours a day 7 days a week for the route from Bangkok to Nakhon Ratchasima, it will pressure to extend the operating out to something like 5 AM to midnight.*

BTW, the double tracking to Nakhon Ratchasima you are referring got 24 month delays due to the pressing demands by Mayor of Khorat city and those who live in Khorat city Municipal as well as those who live in Sikiw Municipal to get elevated tracks.

BTW, the travel time from Bangsue Central to Nakhon Ratchasima (252.3 km) is 90 minutes and each train has 594 seats 
http://www.bangkokbiznews.com/news/detail/811435

The route to Khorat is surprisingly on great demands but some has raised the issue that the ticket may be too high but those who live in Khorat city said paying premium for saving time with less traffic accidents when intercity buses slipping out of Friendship Highway or get stuck in traffic jam in Friendship Highway is okay.
https://www.facebook.com/moremovemag/photos/a.160625153949804/2095909533754680/?type=3


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## Appleich

Thai $6.9 Billion Rail Project to Pick Consortium by January

Natnicha Chuwiruch | Bloomberg | September 11, 2018, 3:44 PM GMT+7

▸Military government plans to connect three major airports
▸Thai, Chinese and Japanese firms are studying project terms

*Thailand expects to select a consortium by January to build a 225 billion baht ($6.9 billion) high-speed rail link connecting three international airports, one of the largest transport projects in its history.*

The agency overseeing the plan, the Eastern Economic Corridor Office, aims to make as much progress on the project as possible ahead of elections due from February next year, said its Secretary General Kanit Sangsubhan. Some 31 firms, mostly from Thailand, China and Japan, are studying the project’s terms. One area of assessment will be "how much the consortium will ask of the government for co-investment," Kanit said in an interview in his office in Bangkok on Monday.

The military government in power since a coup in 2014 has championed infrastructure investment to try and lift the pace of Thai economic growth toward the levels achieved in neighboring nations. But it remains to be seen how much of its agenda will remain intact after general elections, amid signs of opposition to elements of the push.

The Eastern Economic Corridor is a 1.7 trillion baht plan to add infrastructure and advanced industries in the provinces of Rayong, Chachoengsao and Chonburi. The rail link would run between Bangkok’s two international airports and another near the tourist hot-spot of Pattaya, the U-Tapao International Airport in Rayong. Talks are underway for Airports of Thailand Pcl to be a partner and shareholder in the planned expansion of U-Tapao, Kanit said.

Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-11/thailand-s-6-9-billion-rail-link-to-pick-contractor-by-january


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## cheehg

BKK to Rayong HSR make more sense. At least the area is very popular tourist destination.


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## Wisarut

cheehg said:


> BKK to Rayong HSR make more sense. At least the area is very popular tourist destination.


the problem is the EIA issue with Maptaphut industrial estate. After Maptaphut industrial estate has raised the concern about EIA, it has compelled the government to shorten the route to U-Tapao which caused the outrages from those who live in Rayong province and Rayong city. Need to make political compromised to end these conflicts of demands though.


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## Wisarut

CRRC CEO making a clear determination to export China Railway High-Speed to Thailand to connect all 3 airports in Thailand (SUvannabhum, Donmueang, U-Tapao) - Let's see they can offer narrow body Fuxing High Speed EMUs so that they can run the high speed train on the existing Airport Link structure which can deal with EMUs with the width not more than 3 meter without major modification of station buildings. 
https://mgronline.com/specialscoop/detail/9610000092093


Even though CP has strong connection with Chinese firms, CP has hint that EMU for High Speed train connecting 3 airports will be from European countries which offer High Speed train with narrow bodies (not more than 3 meter wide) since CP are reluctant to invest on major modification of Airport Link stations building to accommodate the wide body EMUs (3.2 meter wide) for High Speed train which are the only High Speed EMUs Japanese and Chinese firms could offer. Therefore, Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane S.p.A. (FS) and Société nationale des chemins de fer français (SNCF) of France have the edge since 

1. FS has ETR 1000 with body width of 2.924 meter whie running at 300 kph used by Trenitalia (Subsidiary of FS) while 
2. SNCF ha TGV with the body width of 2.900meter whie running at 300 - 320 kph used by SNCF

Note, this means CRRC needs to come up with Fuxing Hao with narrow body to rival European since the current version of Fuxing Hao has the width of 3.360 meter - even the older generation has 3.2 meter wide body
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuxing_(train)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TGV
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frecciarossa_1000
https://www.prachachat.net/property/news-219551


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## ddes

I've been to Bangkok a gazillion times, but only took the Airport Rail Link for the first time in my life a month ago. Why did they opt for such a narrow width considering it's standard gauge? And why does Thailand love designing sharp bends of 90deg, ie. Skytrain, MRT and ARL.


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## cheehg

Wisarut said:


> CRRC CEO making a clear determination to export China Railway High-Speed to Thailand to connect all 3 airports in Thailand (SUvannabhum, Donmueang, U-Tapao) - Let's see they can offer narrow body Fuxing High Speed EMUs so that they can run the high speed train on the existing Airport Link structure which can deal with EMUs with the width not more than 3 meter without major modification of station buildings.
> https://mgronline.com/specialscoop/detail/9610000092093
> 
> 
> Even though CP has strong connection with Chinese firms, CP has hint that EMU for High Speed train connecting 3 airports will be from European countries which offer High Speed train with narrow bodies (not more than 3 meter wide) since CP are reluctant to invest on major modification of Airport Link stations building to accommodate the wide body EMUs (3.2 meter wide) for High Speed train which are the only High Speed EMUs Japanese and Chinese firms could offer. Therefore, Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane S.p.A. (FS) and Société nationale des chemins de fer français (SNCF) of France have the edge since
> 
> 1. FS has ETR 1000 with body width of 2.924 meter whie running at 300 kph used by Trenitalia (Subsidiary of FS) while
> 2. SNCF ha TGV with the body width of 2.900meter whie running at 300 - 320 kph used by SNCF
> 
> Note, this means CRRC needs to come up with Fuxing Hao with narrow body to rival European since the current version of Fuxing Hao has the width of 3.360 meter - even the older generation has 3.2 meter wide body
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuxing_(train)
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TGV
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frecciarossa_1000
> https://www.prachachat.net/property/news-219551


Airport line won't be part of the HSR to north and east? Those lines will be also narrow body loading gauge?


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## Thinnakorn

cheehg said:


> BKK to Rayong HSR make more sense. At least the area is very popular tourist destination.


Tourism seems to be a minor when compare to tremendous industries hub!


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## Wisarut

ddes said:


> I've been to Bangkok a gazillion times, but only took the Airport Rail Link for the first time in my life a month ago. Why did they opt for such a narrow width considering it's standard gauge? And why does Thailand love designing sharp bends of 90deg, ie. Skytrain, MRT and ARL.


It has to be compact since the area along eastern line has 40-meter wide land strip since 1957 and now the section along the eastern line have a lot of built up both legally and illegally.

Sharp bent have a lot to do with constrains of areas that make wider curves too costly to construct. The value of land are going to need a lot of Eagle gold bullion coins and maple Leaf gold bullion coins to cover as a compensation to the landowners including Chulalongkorn University and Crown Properties Bureau and other landowners though.



cheehg said:


> Airport line won't be part of the HSR to north and east? Those lines will be also narrow body loading gauge?


The Concession of High Speed train connecting 3 Airport have to take care of existing Airport Link as well as the new section beyond Lad Krabang and the section to Donmuang via Bangsue Central.


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## Wisarut

Section 2 of Thai China Railway from Sikiw to Kudjik with a distance of 11 km and price tag of 4000 Million Baht - consited of 4.19 km elevated track and 6.81 km at grade with permanent way and track maintainance center at Kok Sa-at with temporary platform.
the bidding started in November 2018 so the contract can be signed by the end of January 2019. The qualified bidder must handle at leat 600 million baht on railway projects 
http://daily.bangkokbiznews.com/detail/345099
https://www.khaosod.co.th/economics/news_1580916
https://www2.posttoday.com/aec/news/564561


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## Wisarut

cheehg said:


> Airport line won't be part of the HSR to north and east? Those lines will be also narrow body loading gauge?


High Speed train connecting 3 Airport has been considered as a part of High Speed train for the Eastern Seaboard (now named as Eastern Economic Corridor) with a price tag of 7000 million US Dollars (224 billion Baht). 

This High Speed train connecting 3 airport with total distance of 220 km (including the existing section of Airport Link section) would double the number of the passengers for 3 airports (Donmueang - Suvannabhum - U-Tapao) from 75.3 million passengers a year (Suvannabhum 45 million passengers, Donmueang 30 million passengers U-Tapao 0.3 million passengers) to be at 190 million passengers a year (Suvannabhum 90 million passengers, Donmueang 40 million passengers U-Tapao 60 million passengers).

This has been funded by domesitic bonds rather than foreign loan since Ministry of Finance is showing strong objection to Chinese loan with high interest rate which is totally unacceptable. However, the loan for EMU and electromechanic and signal can be foreign loan if the interest rates are in Thai Government's favors. 

the bidding for 50-year concession will be held in the next 3 months though and sign the contract with contractor in January 2019 and it take about 5 years to construct the system to be opened in December 2023 
https://www.thaipost.net/main/detail/18296
https://mgronline.com/japan/detail/9610000095499


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## Wisarut

TOR for section 2 Thai - China High Speed train Phase 1 (Bangsue Central - Khorat with a price tag of 179,412.21 Million Baht) with total distance of 11 km has been issued with the price tag cut from 5000 Million Baht to 3,350.475 Million Baht - down by almost 30% - Public hearing on TOR for section 2 will be called from 28 September to 4 October 2018.

Qualified contractors must already handled the projects related to railway or electric train construction and platelaying as well as Track Rehabilitation and Track Strengthening, road, bridge and tunnel construction with a price tag in single contract not less than 500 Million Baht - along with the handle railway track at grade, elevated tracks and underground track - not including the construction of locomotive and EMU depot or the passing loop maintainance 

The TOR for the construction including 

1. 11 km of railway track from km 214+000 to km 225+000 including 6.81 km of at grade track and 4.19 km of elevated track 
2. Station yard for track maintainance center at Khok Sa-Ad including traffic control, housing, vehicle wash
3. the drainance, the track removing, the infrastructure as necessary 
4. the removing and rebuilding of existing track from km 215+520 - km 219+894 

Score criteria
1. details that meet specific TOR 10 points
2. Project management and administration 20 points
3. qualified personnel 20 points 
4. construction machines and equipment 10 points
5. Construction Methods 40 points

Need to pass each criteria not less than 60% with the overall score at least 75% to be technical qualified. 

This work has to be done within 18 months after the date of start working on the construction - Jan 2019
https://mgronline.com/business/detail/9610000097188

More details on Thai - China Railway section 2 
https://www.facebook.com/ake.bluechifamily/posts/1961641653882770

TOR for bidders of this section
http://www.railway.co.th/auction/tor/detailtor.asp?codetor=613763886


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## Wisarut

SRT coming up with TOR for Thai China Railway soon - ready to issue the TOR for section 2 (Sikiw - Kudjik) with total distance of 11 km at 5 billion Baht on 28 September 2018 while bidding form will be sold by the end of October 2018

For the csection from Chanthuek to Klong Phai with a price tag of 10 billion Baht to constuct the tunnel section will get TOR ready by the end of December 2018 - with a condition for virtually all local contents of construction materials. 

the other 2 sections will be ready for decoding to get BOQ in November and December 2018 with total 12 contracts
Section 3 from Kaeng Khoi to Nakhon Ratchasima (119.5 km ) will consist of 6 contracts and Section 4 from Bangsue Central to Kaeng Khoi (119 km) will consist of 6 contracts 

For the comparaison of High Speed train - 
Chinese High Speed train from Beijing to SHanghai with total distance of 1318 km has a ticket price of 2775 Baht (2.2 Baht per km) Shinkansen from Tokyo to Osaka with the distance of 515 km has a ticket price at 4000 Baht (about 8 Baht per km)
TGV system from Paris to Masalle with the distance of 862 km has a ticket price at 4100 Baht (about 5 Baht per km)
ICE system from Berlin to Frankfort with the distance of 462 km has a ticket price at 4300 Baht (about 10 Baht per km)

If we follow the Chinese system on Bangsue Central to Khorat (253.5 km), the ticket price is 556 Baht - Shinkansen will be 2024 Baht, 
If we follow the Chinese system on Donmuang to U-Tapao (220 km), the ticket price is 484 Baht - Shinkansen will be 1,760 Baht, and TGV will be 1,100 Baht
https://www.thaipost.net/main/detail/18274
https://www.posttoday.com/economy/565335
https://www.naewna.com/business/365911


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## Wisarut

After SRT has revealed the TOR for section 2 (Sikiw - Kudjik) at 3,350.475 Million Baht with total distance of 11 km from km 214+000 to km 225+000 including 6.81 km of at grade track and 4.19 km of elevated track, SRT and MoT are working on the TOR for the section 3 and section 4 with 12 contracts to be done in December 2018 so the construction of all section can be done in April 2019 and 12 contracts will be listed as follows:

Section 3: Kaeng Khoi - Nakhon Ratchasima with total distance of 119.5 km with 5 contracts are including
Contract 3: Kaeng Khoi - Klang Dong and Pang Asok - Bundai Mah (31.9 km)
Contract 4: Muak Lek tunnel and Lam Takhong tunnel with total distance of 11.9 km
Contract 5: Bundai Mah - Lam Takhong with total distance of 24.8 km including Pakchong station
Contract 6: Lam Takhon - Sikhiw and Kudjik to Khok Kruad with total distance of 37.5 km
Contract 7: Khok Kruad -Nakhon Ratchasima with total distance of 13.7 km

Section 4: Bangsue - Kaeng Khoi with total distance of 119.5 km and 7 contracts including 

Contract 8 Bangsue - Donmueang with total distance of 11.0 km 
Bangsue Central is now under the hand of STECON and Unique Engineering PCL - with High Speed train section of 2.8 km
Donmueang station is up the concession holder for 50-year concession on High Speed train connecting to 3 airports - this will require 1.09 km of section to handle high speed train 
Contract 9 Donmuang - Nawanakhon 22.7 km
Contract 10 Nawanakhon - Ban Pho 23.0 km
Contract 11 maintainance center at km 56 
Contract 12 Bang Pho - Phra Kaew 14.4 km including Ayutthaya station 
Contract 13 Phra Kaew - Saraburi 30.0 km
Contract 14 Saraburi - Kaeng Khoi including Saraburi station 13.0 km including Saraburi station 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1967587193288216&set=a.1914290831951186&type=3&theater


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## Wisarut

the latest news about Thai - Japan High Speedtrain to Chiang Mai implied that Japanese government would grant loan rather than joint venture as hoped by Thai government according to these news and articles which implied that this Thai - Japan High Speedtrain to Chiang Mai should be postponed for at least 10 years 
https://www.naewna.com/business/370377
https://www.thairath.co.th/content/1403046

Nevertheless, those from Chiang Mai Chamber of Commerce are trying to lobby to realize this High Speed train project at all cost. MoT tried to lobby so hard but Japanese Government says NO to the investment as Joint Venture 
http://www.trjournalnews.com/คมนาคม-ฝันสลาย-ญี่ปุ่/
http://www.thansettakij.com/content/335981
https://workpointnews.com/2018/10/23/ญี่ปุ่น-เมินลงทุน-รถไฟไ/
http://www.thansettakij.com/content/334135


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## cheehg

This line won't make any profit even long term so Japanese is not interested to invest. Loan is different.


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## Wisarut

cheehg said:


> This line won't make any profit even long term so Japanese is not interested to invest. Loan is different.















A lot of issue to be settle for Thai - Japan railway to Chiang Mai (672 km at 420,000 Million Baht) with the study result for the first section from Bangsue central to Phitsanuloke with 380 km at 276,225 Million Baht has been done since November 2017 wiht the results in the hands of OTP.

There are a lot of issue on TOD, traffic, track maintainance, civil works, EMUs, since it requires much more complicated arrangement 

Using Texas model [JOIN Model or Japan Oversea Infrastructure Investment Corporation for Transport and Urban Development)] to entice Japanese to invest on Thai - Japan High Speed train - using 70- 80% Thai investment : 20 - 30 %Japanese investment instead of the orginal 50% : 50%

If Japanese government still refuses to show any strong interests, Thai government would change the priority toward the ongoing Thai - China Railway as well as High Speed train for 3 airports and of course Southern line to Hua Hin at Bo Fai. Nevertheless, Thailand still give a provision to allow Japanese investment on High Speed project to raise the level of relationship as well as to do the technology transfers since Japan keeps endless developments of High Speed train and Thailand would like to obtain the technology
https://mgronline.com/business/detail/9610000107000
https://siamrath.co.th/n/50892
https://www.prachachat.net/property/news-240661
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRmo4N5Zq-Y


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## ddes

How is Bangkok - Chiang Mai air passenger numbers?

I would think that on the back of Bangkok-Chiang Mai traffic, this would be a no brainer for the Japanese - certainly more so than Bangkok-Udon Thani. I would admit that there is more "potential" on Thai Chinese line from a domestic standpoint alone.


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## WalkerEmp

ddes said:


> How is Bangkok - Chiang Mai air passenger numbers?
> 
> I would think that on the back of Bangkok-Chiang Mai traffic, this would be a no brainer for the Japanese - certainly more so than Bangkok-Udon Thani. I would admit that there is more "potential" on Thai Chinese line from a domestic standpoint alone.


If someone to be blamed, it must be Thai govt.

The the military government of Thailand don't want to invest HSR northern line in one huge amount of budget. So they separated it into 2 sections.
I. Bangkok - Phitsanulok
II. Phitsanulok - Chiang Mai

The Japanese have opposed this idea along the time. If this line is to be done, the entire line must be done in ONE phase.


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## Wisarut

CP making a head start for High Speed train connecting 3 airports by signing MOU with faculty of Rail Transport Engineering, Mahidol University to do R & D on High speed train and relating projects while hiring Leo Mak Sek Man who used to deal with High Speed train project in Malaysia.

CP is going to handle High Speed train connecting 3 airports, started with the major improvement on the existing Airport Link to be able to accommodate with High Speed train EMUs along with Airport Link EMUs started in October 2021, after the land transfers on 1 January 2021. Next is the construction on the section from Suvannabhum to U-Tapao Airport. The last step is to extend to Donmueang with the tunnel from Phaythai to Bangsue central. 









กลุ่มซีพี เดินหน้ารถไฟไฮสปีด ผนึกวิศวะมหิดล วิจัยแผนพัฒนาระบบ


กลุ่มซีพี ไม่รอวิกฤติโควิด-19 สงบ เดินหน้าเมกะโปรเจ๊กต์รถไฟไฮสปีดเชื่อม 3 สนามบิน จับมือวิศวะมหิดล วิจัยแผนงานพัฒนาระบบรถไฟฟ้าความเร็วสูงและการจ้างงานบัณฑิต




www.thansettakij.com







__ https://www.facebook.com/thaimotnews/posts/275848237152512


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## Wisarut

After EIA Clearance by the end of June 2020, the other 12 sections of Thai - China High Speed train with total distance of 253 km at 179,413 Million Baht will get contracts signed. The first 2 sections are:

1. Klang Dong - Pang Asok - 3.5 km now 75% done by Highway Dept
2. Sikiw - Kudjik 11 km won by Civil Engineering PCL at 3,350.47 Million Baht - defeating ITD PCL. Now, the infrastructure clearance is on going. 

12 contracts still waiting the approval including:
7 contracts still waiting the contract signing once EIA clearance by the end of June 2020 including
1. Donmueang - Nava Nakhon with the distance of 21.80 km - Sinohydro - Sahakarn Wisavakorn Co., Ltd. - Thiphakorn Co.Ltd. won the bidding at 8,626 Million Baht 
2. Nava Nakhon - Ban Pho with the distance of 23 km - China State Construction Engineering Corporation Co. Ltd. - Nawarat Patanakarn Public Company Limited - AS Associated Engineering (1964) Co.Ltd. won the bidding at 11,525 Million Baht
3. Phra Kaew - Saraburi with the distance of 31.60 km - Unique Engineering and Construction PCL won the bidding at 9,429 Million Baht
4. Muak Lek tunnel and Lam Takhon Tunnel - Nawarat Patanakarn Public Company Limited won the bidding at 4,279.328 Million Baht
5. Saraburi - Kaeng Khoi with the distance of 12.99 km including the construction of Saraburi station - Civil Engineering PCL won the bidding at 8,560 Million Baht 
6. Kaeng Khoi - Klang Dong and Pang Asok - Bundai Mah with the distance of 30.21 km - Thai Engineering Co.Ltd. won the bidding at 9,330 Million Baht 
7. Lam Takhon - Sikiw and Kudjik - Khok Kruad with the distance of 37.45 km - BINA from Malaysia - Nabha Construction Co.Ltd. won the bidding at 9,788 Million Baht 

3 contracts still waiting approval from SRT Board
1. Bundai Mah - Khok Kruad with the distance of 26.10 km including the construction of New Pak Chong station - Krungthon Engineering Co.Ltd. won the bidding at 9,838 Million Baht
2. Ban Pho - Phra Kaew with the distance of 13.30 km including the construction of Ayutthaya station - ITD PCL won the bidding at 9,913 Million Baht 
3. Khok Kruad - Nakhon Ratchasima with the distance of 13.69 km including the construction of Nakhon Ratchasima station - SPTK Consortium won the bidding at 7,750 Million Baht 

Chiang Rak Noy Depot with the price tag of 6,093.037 Million Baht still waiting for bidding results - even ITD seems to win the bidding.

The other one from Bangsue Central to Donmueang needs further discussion with CP All so as to prevent any friction with High Speed train connecting 3 airports 

Nevertheless, SRT admitting that the troubles for blue print correcting to fit the modification have delayed project by 6 months - effectively makes Thai - China opened in 2024 rather than 2023.








ลุยเซ็น 12 สัญญารับเหมา หลัง มิ.ย. EIA ไฮสปีด ไทย-จีนผ่าน


รฟท. เตรียมเซ็นสัญญา 12 ผู้รับเหมา หลังค้างเติ่ง ติดยื่น อีไอเอเพิ่มเติม จากการปรับแนวเส้นทาง คาดว่าได้รับอนุมัติมิ.ย.นี้




www.thansettakij.com


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## Wisarut

On the issue of High Speed Connecting 3 Airports - Consider using EMUs from Japan, especially Hitachi which has been produced for European market due to the compactness of High Speed Train EMUs (2.7 m wide EMUs) which Chinese rolling producers still unable to come up with with narrow body High Speed Train EMUs for exports. Furthermore, the specification for signal is ETCS just like Thai - China High Speed train. JBIC also offers financial supports so that CP All could purchase Japanese High Speed EMUs.

Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane S.p.A. will handle the consultant for commercial development of high speed train stations along with BEM (10% shareholder) 

China Railway Construction Co.Ltd. (10% shareholder) and Italian Thai Development PCL (5% shareholder) and Ch. Karnchang (5% shareholder) will handle the construction and station upgrade along with signal installation 




__ https://www.facebook.com/ThaiDevReport/posts/1807840379358245










รถไฟความเร็วสูง 3 สนามบินโครงสร้างธุรกิจใหม่ “เครือซีพี” - Forbes Thailand


องค์กรมูลค่าล้านล้านอย่าง “เครือซีพี” กำลังแตกไลน์จากธุรกิจหลักในอุตสาหกรรมการเกษตร-อาหารไปสู่ บริการขนส่งมวลชน-อสังหาริมทรัพย์




forbesthailand.com












Hitachi targets high-speed rail projects from Texas to Thailand


Japanese group seeks role in 90-minute route linking Houston and Dallas




asia.nikkei.com


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## Wisarut

MoT starting the plan for land expropriation before transferring the land to construct High Speed train connecting 3 Airports (Donmueang - Suvannabhum - U Tapao - 220 km at 224,544 Million Baht) while CP All has sent the men to survey on the Airport Link assets before transferring in October 2021 along with soil checking. much of the land belonged to SRT along with Highway Dept and Rural Highway Dept, so the permissions are in need, so MOT has told SRT along with Highway Dept and Rural Highway Dept to speed up the process to grant permission for CP All to access to the land in question.

While waiting for permission, CP all starting the land survey including soil checking along with assets of SRTET Airport Link before the land transfers by the end of October 2021 with the condition that CP All must improve the Airport Link services.
Furthermore, CP All would have to check the human resources so as to minimize the number of new recruits and minimize the training time, the way of cost cutting. 

There are three types of land along High Speed train connecting 3 Airports
1. Land to be expropriated - originally need 857 Rai 3 Ngan 59 Square Wah (137.2636 Hectares) on 924 land plots and 334 buildings. However, CP All has pressed the demands for extra land expropriation so the land to be expropriated would be 885 Rai 3 Ngan 88 Square Wah (141.7552 Hectares) on 931 land plots and 360 buildings while the trees will remain 571 land plots.
2. Land being encroached - with 2 sections with total number of 1352 buildings
2.1 Donmueang - Suvannabhum 782 buildings even though the actual numbers that caused the real problem is 197 buildings along with 206 buildings without complete documents - but no need for litigation to remove those who encroach the land. 

2.2 Suvannabhum - U Tapao - 570 buildings even though the actual numbers that caused the real problem is 301 buildings along with 37 buildings without complete documents but CP All needs to file litigation and prosecution on the owners of 212 buildings to remove those who encroach the land by the court injunction including 5 buildings at Khao Phrabat 128 buildings at Bang Lamung and 57 buildings at Pattaya - Ban Huaykwang and 2 buildings at Khao Chee Jan 

3. Land that need infrastructures removed. The cost for removing infrastructure has been down from 479 million Baht to 335.74 Million Baht - and the budget allocations to remove both electric lines and waterworks pipes will be ready in May 2020. Permission to allow access into the areas to remove public utilities are in need.

SRT has to transfer the existing land along Airport Link along with Lad Krabang to U Tapao by the end of October 2021 and Donmueang to Phayathai by the end of October 2022. 
สั่งฟันผู้บุกรุก 212 หลังพ้นไฮสปีด-เวนคืนเพิ่ม 28 ไร่ เร่งส่งมอบพื้นที่ให้ซี.พี.








เร่งส่งพื้นที่ “ไฮสปีด 3 สนามบิน” เริ่มขุดเจาะชั้นดิน - “ซีพี” สำรวจทรัพย์สินเร่งโอน “แอร์พอร์ตลิงก์”


“คมนาคม” กางผังเวนคืน เร่งทยอยส่งมอบพื้นที่ “ไฮสปีดเชื่อม 3 สนามบิน” เข้าพื้นที่ขุดเจาะสำรวจชั้นดินแล้ว มั่นใจไม่มีปัญหา ขณะที่ “กลุ่มซีพี” เริ่มสำรวจทรัพย์สิน “แอร์พอร์ตลิงก์” เร่งโอนก่อน ต.ค. 64 ตามเงื่อนไขสัญญา




mgronline.com












คมนาคมพอใจความคืบหน้าไฮสปีดเชื่อม 3 สนามบิน


กระทรวงคมนาคม เดินหน้าส่งมอบพื้นที่ไฮสปีดเชื่อมสามสนามบิน ขณะที่ซีพี ลงพื้นที่สำรวจทรัพย์สินแอร์พอร์ตลิงก์แล้ว คาดโอนงาน ต.ค.64




mgronline.com


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## Wisarut

Thai - China Railway Bangsue Central - Nong Khai - 
First Phase from Bangsue Central to Nakhon Ratchasima with the price tag of 179412.21 Million Baht to be opened in 2025
EMU to use for this line is Fuxing CR300AF in 8 car formation with 6 sets of EMUs for the first phase running from 6 AM to 10 PM with 90 minute interval with the daily number of passengers on the first year at 5310 passengers a year
The route will be 188.68 km elevated tracks and 54.09 km at grade and 8 km tunnels in Muak Lek and Lam Takhong with total distance of 250.77 km
There will be 6 stations 
1. Bangsue Grand Central - 3 floors+ underground with connection to Bangsue Subway station
1.1 Underground parking - 1700 cars
1.2 1st floor Ticket selling, commercial development - underground with connection to Bangsue Subway station 
1.3 2nd floor Red line commuter and and intercity trains - 12 platforms
1.4 3rd floor High Speed train to Khorat and other places - 12 platforms

2. Donmueang - 4 floor - 
2.1 1st floor for Parking, 
2.2 2nd floor Ticket selling, 
2.3 3rd floor for High Speed train connecting three airport 
2.4 4th floor Red line commuter and High Speed train to Khorat 

3. Ayutthaya
3.1 1st floor Intercity train and future red line commuter that cover the existing Ayutthaya station building with connection to Pasak river for both ferry and passenger boats - those old wooden rows have to be removed - and the access to station used to both existing access road and new road
3.2 2nd floor Ticket selling and passenger hall 
3.3 3rd floor for High Speed train to Khorat and Northern line

4. Saraburi
4.1 1st floor for Intercity Trains and commuter with the new station 
4.2 2nd floor Intercity train Ticket selling, 
4.3 3rd floor for High Speed train Ticket selling, 
4.4 4th floor High Speed train to Khorat 

5. Pak Chong 
5.1 1st floor for Parking and access to the new station to allow connecting with existing railway network
5.2 2nd floor commercial development and main entrance
5.3 3rd floor Ticket selling, 
5.4 4th floor High Speed train to Khorat 

6. Nakhon Ratchasima 
6.1 1st floor commercial development 
6.2 2nd floor Ticket selling and platform for intercity trains
6.3 3rd floor High Speed train to Khorat 

the ticket rate:
Bangsue Grand Central - Nakhon Ratchasima 535 Baht
Bangsue Grand Central - Pak Chong 393 Baht
Bangsue Grand Central - Saraburi 278 Baht
Bangsue Grand Central - Ayutthaya 195 Baht
Bangsue Grand Central - Donmueang 105 Baht


Traffic control and Maintenance center at Chiang Rak Noy
Track Maintenance center at Saraburi and Khok Sa-ad

Progress on 14 sections - First section (Klang Dong - Pan Asok) at 3.5 km - 73.81% done while second section (Si Kiw - Kud Jik) at 11 km is 8.65% done




__ https://www.facebook.com/pr.railway/posts/3572506246097554





__ https://www.facebook.com/Thailand.Infra/posts/949437542161392


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## Wisarut

SRT asks Attorney General to counter check on the contract for purchasing 6 sets of Fuxing CR300AF EMU in 8 car formation along with ECTS-2 signal and system with a price tag of 50,633.50 Million Baht in Baht and US Dollar Denomination (80% US Dollars and 20% Thai Baht).

There is an issue on EIA Clearance for Aytthaya station - either lower the height of station which have been considered too high against the old ruins of Ayutthaya city island or moving 7 km away from existing Ayutthaya station - and so far moving from existing Ayutthaya station to 7 km away is not a good option since it is inconvenient for the transportation connections with existing bus networks for Ayutthaya city center.

For the issue double tracking from Hua Hin to Prachaub Khirikhan with a price tag of 5807 Million Baht, SRT has to give 11-month extension to ITD due to the failure for SRT to make a land transfer to allow ITD to modify the station yards on time.








ร.ฟ.ท.ชงอัยการตรวจร่างสัญญา 2.3 ไฮสปีดไทย-จีน ส่วน EIA ยังติดปมแบบ “สถานีอยุธยา”


“รถไฟไทย-จีน” ติดปม EIA ติงแบบสถานีอยุธยากระทบโบราณสถาน ด้านผู้ว่าฯร.ฟ.ท.เร่งเจรจา ยันสถานีควรอยู่ในเมืองเพื่อเชื่อมเดินทางสะดวก ขณะที่บอร์ด ร.ฟ.ท.ไฟเขียวร่างสัญญา 2.3 เร่งชงอัยการและ ครม.




mgronline.com


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## Wisarut

Ayuthaya railway station for High Speed train must get design approval from Fine Arts Dept as a part of the revised EIA clerance before signing the contract with contractors since this High Speed train station must cover the existing Ayutthaya station withut damaging existing building. Futhermore, archeological survey on the construction areas around Ayutthaya station fo High Speed train must be executed. The parking space must be behind the station areas. However, the plan to expand the local Highway No. 3053 must be limited so that it would do no harm to the old building. 



__ https://www.facebook.com/TransportDailynews/posts/2635583896663112


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## Wisarut

CP All is going to take over Airport Link from SRTET in October 2021. 
Before such takeover, CP All has sent their men to investigate on the Airport Link Assets and CP makes a clear point before issuing the 10,671 Million Baht cashire Cheque to SRT to take over Airport Link in October 2021 according to the contract.

Clear Point from CP All: Once CP All has taken over Airport Link, first things to be done are to investigate all 10 systems of Airport Link such as 

1. the existing 9 sets of Siemens Desiro EMUs 
2. telecommunication and 
3. signal system
4. Power distribution
5. Equiment in Depot and Maintainance center 
6. Gates
7. Civilwork structure 

So far, the system is safe for service but need further improvements including

1. Signal and traffic control system need to be changed from the Propriety system of Siemens to Open system to allow EMUs of other brands to run on the system 
2. Need to stock more spare part before the takeover in October 2021, especially the spare parts which no longer in the production line of Siemens and its partners. First spare parts to be stocked are Braking systems. This would need several hundred million Baht to deal with major renovation of EMUs. 
3. New High Speed EMUs once Signal and traffic control are being changed to opened system comparable to ECTS-2 (High Speed train system) 
4. Parking space, access roads to stations, and even stairways alogn with escalators to reach station buildings to be improved inclduing the underground connection between Phetburi subway station and Makkasan station of Airport Link to complement with exisitng Skywalk.

The massive increases in efficiency need to reach the theoretical LIMITS without purchasing the new fleets of EMUs until the rising demands well over the latest maximum figure of 80000 men a day have compelled CP All to purchase the new EMUs which should be in late 2023 - 2024. 


The delay of takeover is due to the asset assessment along with those men from FS (Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane S.p.A.) cannot come to Thailand due to Covid-19. 

For those personnels from SRTET, some would have been picked by CP All so they can start their work immediately - only those incompetent ones must be removed and replaced by those who have been trained by those competent ones.

CP All has a contract to enter into the railway land for the construction:
1. Phayathai - Suvannabhum - 28.5 km has to be entered immediately once SRT has received the cashir cheque of 10671 Million Baht from CP All. 

2. Suvannabhum - U Tapao - 170 km has to be transferred within 2 years (24 months) even though it can be speeded up to 15 months - Hope to be done in late 2023

3. Phayathai - Donmueang - 22 km has to be transferred within 4 years (48 months) even though it can be speeded up to 27 months - hope to be done in late 2024 - 2025 

Even Before takeover, CP All is going to lay the first corner stone for the construction of High Speed train connecting 3 airports in February 2021. However, CP All has to draft the plan to remove infrastructure and land expropriation as needed before laying the corner stone. 

Land expropriation on 931 land plots with the size of 885 Rai 3 Ngan 88 Square Wah (141.7552 Hectares) along with 360 buildings 1352 huts of those slum dwellers (782 huts between Donmueang - Suvannabhum + 570 huts between Suvannabhum - U-Tapao) is still going on at the price tag of 3570 Million Baht 








ซี.พี. เข้าบริหารแอร์พอร์ตลิงก์ ต.ค.64


"ซี.พี." เร่งตรวจสอบทรัพย์สิน "แอร์พอร์ตลิงก์" จ่อเปลี่ยนอะไหล่ ปรับปรุงขบวนรถเก่า รื้องานระบบ ที่จอดรถ ทะลวงทางเข้า-ออกสถานี เพิ่มประสิทธิภาพการบริการ




www.prachachat.net


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## Wisarut

7 Sections of Thai - China High Speed train has just received EIA clearance - allowing SRT to sign the contracts with contractors who won bidding:


Contract 3-1: Kaeng Khoi - Klang Dong and Pan Asok - Bundai Mah with total distance of 30.21 km at 9,330 Million Baht
Contract 3-2: Muak Lek tunnel and Lam Takhong tunnel with total distance of 12.23 km at 4,279 Million Baht
Contract 3-3: Bundai Mah - Lam Takhong with total distance of 26.10 km at 9,838 Million Baht - including Pakchong station
Contract 3-4: Lam Takhong - Sikiw and Kudjik - Khok Kruad with total distance of 37.45 km at 9,848 Million Baht
Contract 3-5: Khok Kruad - Nakhon Ratchasima with total distance of 12.38 km at 7,750 Million Baht - including Nakhon Ratchasima station
Contract 4-6: Phra Kaew - Saraburi with total distance of 31.60 km at 9,429 Million Baht
Contract 4-7: Saraburi - Kaeng Khoi with total distance of12.99 km at 8,560 Million Baht - including Saraburi station

Bangsue - Ban Phachi section still need some modification of details as a part of EIA including the design and construction of Ayutthaya station without demolishing existing Ayutthaya station building dated 1922 while the High Speed station would be at the same place as existing Ayutthaya station 

For the contracts of EMUs and training along with signal installation (AKA contract 2.3) at 50,633.50 Million Baht, SRT has asked Attorney General to counter-check the contract with a hope to get contract signed in October 2020. Now, SRT has issued Notice to Proceed (NTP) to design the system to be done in 275 days while this contract has the effective period of 64 months:
the payment started in 2021 at 8,234.21 Million Baht
the payment for Year 2022 will be 3,622.36 Million Baht,
the payment for Year 2023 will be 20,481.93 Million Baht,
the payment for Year 2024 will be 18,295 Million Baht,

The opening of the system will be in 2026.








คชก.ปลดล็อก EIA ไฮสปีด “ไทย-จีน” ชง สผ.เคาะ จ่อเซ็น 7 สัญญา 5.9 หมื่นล้าน


คชก.เคาะ EIA รถไฟไทย-จีน ช่วงบ้านภาชี-นครราชสีมาแล้ว เร่งชง สผ.ชุดใหญ่อนุมัติ ร.ฟ.ท.จ่อเซ็นรับเหมา 7 สัญญาวงกว่า 5.9 หมื่นล้าน ลุยก่อสร้าง ส่วนช่วงบางซื่อ-ภาชี เร่งชี้แจงแบบสถานีอยุธยา “นิรุฒ” มั่นใจ ต.ค.เซ็นสัญญาซื้อระบบ 2.3




mgronline.com


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## Wisarut

Ajarn Samart of Democrat Party has raised the issue of slow progress on Thai - China High Speed Railway from Bangsue Central to Nakhon Ratchasima while Lao - China Railway is almost Done while urging the EIA clearance to allow bidding of Thai High Speed railway from Nakhon Ratchasima to Nong Khai 





Войдите на Facebook


Войдите на Facebook, чтобы общаться с друзьями, родственниками и знакомыми.




www.facebook.com












รถไฟความเร็วสูง "ลาว" ว้าววว! แซงหน้า "ไทย"?


รถไฟความเร็วสูง "ลาว" ว้าววว! แซงหน้า "ไทย"? "สามารถ ราชพลสิทธิ์" จี้รัฐบาลเร่งรัดการก่อสร้างด่วน โดยเฉพาะช่วงโคราช-หนองคาย รับผู้โดยสารจากจีนและลาวที่จะเดินทางมาไทยด้วยรถไฟลาว-จีน ซึ่งกำลังจะเปิดให้บริการในปลายปี 2564




www.thansettakij.com


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## Unknow2

Wisarut said:


> Ajarn Samart of Democrat Party has raised the issue of slow progress on Thai - China High Speed Railway from Bangsue Central to Nakhon Ratchasima while Lao - China Railway is almost Done while urging the EIA clearance to allow bidding of Thai High Speed railway from Nakhon Ratchasima to Nong Khai
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Войдите на Facebook
> 
> 
> Войдите на Facebook, чтобы общаться с друзьями, родственниками и знакомыми.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.facebook.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> รถไฟความเร็วสูง "ลาว" ว้าววว! แซงหน้า "ไทย"?
> 
> 
> รถไฟความเร็วสูง "ลาว" ว้าววว! แซงหน้า "ไทย"? "สามารถ ราชพลสิทธิ์" จี้รัฐบาลเร่งรัดการก่อสร้างด่วน โดยเฉพาะช่วงโคราช-หนองคาย รับผู้โดยสารจากจีนและลาวที่จะเดินทางมาไทยด้วยรถไฟลาว-จีน ซึ่งกำลังจะเปิดให้บริการในปลายปี 2564
> 
> 
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> 
> www.thansettakij.com


I don't bother reading his post. But tell him Tendering, Engineering and EIA team commute via his broken BRT system. That's why they never reach the destination or do anything in time.


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## Wisarut

the news about Thai - China High Speed train Phase 2 from Nakhon Ratchasima to Nong Khai with total distance of 356 km and 5 stations including
1. Bua Yai (main drop point for Chaiyaphum via Highway 202)
2. Ban Phai (main drop point for Mahasarakham, Roy Ed via Highway 23 - this will be especially truly dropping point once the new railway line to Nakhon Phanom via Mahasarakham, Roy Ed, Mukdahan has become a reality)
3. Khon Kaen (main drop point for Loei and Kalasin via Highway 12)
4. Udonthani (main drop point for Sakhon Nakhon via Highway 22 and Nong Bua Lamphu via Highway 210)
5. Nong Khai (main drop point for Buengkarn via Highway 212 and Loei via Highway 211)

Cargo train from Laos will have to make a drop at Natha (3 km South of Nong Khai station) - maintenance center will be at Chiang Rak Noy with Light maintenance center at Natha. The track maintenance center will be at Ban Makha (Nakhon Ratchasima), Nong Mek (Khon Kaen) and None Sa-Ad (Udonthani). Once Thai - China High Speed train has become fully done, the travel distance between Bangkok and Nong Khai will be 609 km with travel time of 3 hours and 15 minutes instead of 8 - 10 hours. The station building will be according to the Isan Identity while the design must be in line with Thai - China high speed train from Bangsue Central to Nakhon Ratchasima

Let's see the results from public hearing in Khon Kaen on 14 July 2020, Udonthani on 15 July 2020, and Nong Khai on 16 July 2020 with another round of public hearing after the first hearing. Hope that the study results will be done in 2021 and the construction can be started later and done in 2028. 



__ https://www.facebook.com/TransportDailynews/posts/2651240605097441










ร.ฟ.ท.กางผังรถไฟ “ไทย-จีน” ระยะ 2 ช่วงโคราช-หนองคาย เปิดฟังความเห็นชาวอีสาน


ร.ฟ.ท.กางผังออกแบบแนวเส้นทางรถไฟ “ไทย-จีน” ระยะ 2 “นครราชสีมา-หนองคาย” เปิดเวทีฟังเสียงประชาชน 4 จังหวัดอีสานครั้งที่ 1 ประเดิมชาวโคราช ก่อนเดินสาย 14-16 ก.ค.ที่ขอนแก่น-อุดรธานี-หนองคาย




mgronline.com


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## Wisarut

Ex Senator Damrong Phuttan (AKA Bung Lah) has given a reminder to SRT as well as the contractor who is going to handle the construction of High Speed train station of Ayutthaya that they should do NO HARM to existing structure of Ayutthaya station and the surroundings due to the status of Ayutthaya city as World Heritage - Note: Some has suggested to move High SPeed train station to Ban Mah area which is 2 km North of existing Ayutthaya railway station 








เรื่องเล่าจากดำรง : สถานีรถไฟความเร็วสูงที่อยุธยา ต้องสร้างอย่างไม่ทำลายคุณค่าทางประวัติศาสตร์


ติดตามข่าวสารได้ที่ https://www.springnews.co.th




www.springnews.co.th


----------



## Wisarut

After the public hearing on Thai - China High Speed Train Phase 2 from Nakhon Ratchasima to Nong Khai has been held, Ambassador of Japan has started reviving Thai - Japan High Speed train from Bangsue Central to Phitsanuloke before heading to Chiang Mai


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## Wisarut

For the upcoming public hearing on Thai - China Railway at Royal Nagara Hotel in Nong khai on 16 July 2020 -

Details about Nong Khai station for High Speed train - at the existing Nong Khai station to allow the connection between the existing raillway which will become double track and High Speed train.

The high speed train station shown here is just preliminary design - the internal design is quite impressive with Naga design. However, exernal design is not quite unique, so the further refinement is in need.

Nong Khai station has 3 floors

- First floor - the main entrance - the connection between High Speed train and double tracking which can be accessed from the eastern gate or western gate. Furthermore, Nong Khai station will have immigration office just like Padang Besar station to handle arrival and departure before transferring to Lao - China railway which is going to cross the new Friendship Bridge for Railway. 

- Second floor - the airconditioned waiting hall for passengers with separate sections for domestic travellers and international travellers with separated platforms to handle immigration process

- Third Floor - there will be 5 platforms

4 platform for domestic trains

1 Platform for international trains

the track for cargo train.

The track within Nong Khai province will be as follows:

At Grade: Nong Toom Halt in Udonthani to Highway 211 (near the defunct Nong Song Hong Halt) in Nong Khai
Elevated track from Highway 211 (near the defunct Nong Song Hong Halt) in Nong Khai to the new Thai - Lao Friendship Bridge for Railway


Hope that this Thai - China High Speed train could reach Nong Khai by the end of 2027.




__ https://www.facebook.com/Thailand.Infra/posts/975222949582851




Design of Udonthani station for High Speed train at the existing Udonthani railway station with internal design of Ban chiang teracotta pots and Isan style textile

The track within Udonthani province will be as follows:

- At Grade: Border of Udonthani north of Khao Suan Kwang station all the way before reaching Kumphawapee station, the sectin from Highway No. 2023 to the Northern end of Huay Sam Phat station, the section from Nong Takai to Highway No. 216

- Elevated track: Kumphawapee station - Highway No. 2023, Nong Takai station and Udonthani city from Highway No. 216 (before reaching Nong khon Kwang station all the way to Nong Toom station)




__ https://www.facebook.com/Thailand.Infra/posts/974861989618947


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## Wisarut

Thai - China High Speed train Phase 2: Nakhon Ratchasima - Nong Khai


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## Wisarut

- Rayong high speed train station with a shape of pineapple on Highway No. 3547 at Ban Khai district near Wat Nam Khok Kao - 3 km from Koh Loy intersection and 5 km from downtown Rayong city - due to the issue of high land expropriation prices - to be the same place as Rayong station of double tracking

- Klaeng station with a shape of Mangosteen on Highway no. 344 between Klaeng district office and Siam ParaInterwood Co.Ltd. - 2 km from Sukhumvit road 

-Chanthaburi station with a shape of Durian on Sukhumvit road near Rai Ya intersection - 3 km from downtown Chanthaburi - also not far from Rajabhat Institute of Queen Rambaibanee - should be the same place at Chanthaburi station by turning the planned Khao Rai Ya station into Chanthaburi station while turning the planned Chanthaburi station into Plabpla station with container yard instead 

- Trat with a shape of Zalacca on Sukhumvit road near PEA office - 2 km from downtown Trat city - much better place than the planned Trat station at Noensai which is 10 km from downtown Trat



__ https://www.facebook.com/Thailand.Infra/posts/978775415894271


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## Wisarut

Clearing slum dwellers along with those who need to move out of the expropriated land from Suvannabhum to U-Tapao by the end of February 2021 with the latest appeals by the end of August 2021. Those who need to terminate the land leasing contracts will have to move out of railway land in October 2020 for section from Lad Krabang to U Tapao and December 2020 for the section from Donmueang to Phyathai. Ready to deal with renovation of Airport Link to accommodate High Speed train in October 2021 through the renovation from June 2020 to September 2021. Need to make a survey on the land which CP All is pressing the demands (63 land plots on the points of contention) along with the EIA on the land in question. Hope that, the construction is done and ready for services in January 2026.





__ https://www.facebook.com/TransportDailynews/posts/2658061491082019


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## Wisarut

Here is the information for Thai - China High Speed train to connect with Lao - China Railway with 5 stations (Bua Yai, Ban Phai - Khon Kaen - Udonthani - Nong Khai) with break of the gauge for cargo trains from Laos and China at Natha (3 km South of Nong Khai station) - Depot and light maintenance center along with container yard with mobile cranes to transfer container boxes between Thai cargo trains and Lao - Chinese cargo trains will be at Natha as well. However, the author has wished for the 6th station at Khao Suan Kwang. This high speed train will use 8 car formation EMUs (Fuxing) just like the one for Bangsue Central - Nakhon Ratchasima with ECTS-2 traffic control system. Track maintenance will be at Ban Makha, Nong Mek, None Sa-ad and Natha. Starting point will be at km 251+881 even though the actual construction will be at km 253+031.075 and the ending point will be at km 609+043.259 (Mid point of the new Railway Bridge across mekhong - the border pole) with total distance of 356.01 km (102.90 km elevated tracks + 253.11 km at Grade) - no need for tunnels. There will be 2 contracts for construction - one will handle Nakhon Ratchasima - Ban Phai while the other handle Ban Phai to Nong Khai - the other contractors are handling signal and electromechanic matter. The ticket price for the 3 hour trip from Bangsue Central to Nong Khai is 1200 Baht - comparable to Low Cost Airline service + buses and van from Airport to Friendship Bridge



__ https://www.facebook.com/Thailand.Infra/posts/980167002421779


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## Wisarut

On the Market Sounding for High Speed train connecting 3 Airport Phase 2 at Bangkok Convention Center, Central Grand Hotel, High Speed train connecting 3 Airport Phase 2 will start from U-Tapao to Trat via Rayong, Klaeng, and Chanthaburi with the distance of 190 km to be opened in 2028 if PPP with private sector has become successful in 2024. So far, EIRR is 5.39 % - still lower than 12% threshold, so the line can be shortened to Klaeng with total distance of 100 km to boost up EIRR to pass the 12% threshold. We had better wait until the government has come up with PPP deal though. 

This Highspeed train line started at Ban Chang Railway station (EOL of High-Speed train connecting 3 airport) to Rayong station on Highway No. 3574 (Rayong - Ban Khai) just 3 km North of Koh Kloy intersection . After that, the line is heading to Klaeng to reach Klaeng station at Highway 344 (Chonburi - Klaeng) - 2 km from Klaeng intersection. The line will follow the future new railway line that passes Na Yai Arm district, Tha Mai district to Chanthaburi station at Khao Rai Ya intersection before passing Klung district of Chanthaburi, Khao Saming district of Trat before reaching Trat railway terminus that is opposite of PEA office n Sukhumvit road (Highway No. 3) - 2 km from Trat intersection. 

Once the line has been opened in 2028. the first-year number of passengers will be 7429 men a day before climbing up to 10800 men a day in 2038 and 19500 men a day in 2058. The travel time along the route from U-Tapao to Trat will be 64 minutes with max speed of 250 kph (the average speed is generally 70% of max speed).

However, those local people and investors wish for this line to be extended all the way to Trat rather than shortened to Klaeng. IMHO, terminating the line at Chathaburi near Khao Rai Ya intersection seems to be the optimal choice for me though.



__ https://www.facebook.com/TransportDailynews/posts/2660786687476166





__ https://www.facebook.com/pr.railway/posts/3700923566589154


https://www.facebook.com/Thailand.Infra/posts/981529228952223
ลุยไฮสปีด เฟส 2 บูมระยอง-จันทบุรี-ตราด



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=979378022517112


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## Wisarut

More details on On the Market Sounding for High Speed train connecting 3 Airport Phase 2 from U-Tapao to Trat

Distance from U-Tapao to Trat: 190 km includuing 164 km of elevated tracks and 26 km of at grade track. 
Passing: Rayong, Chanthaburi and Trat
station positions:

Rayong station near Wat Nam Khok Kao - 4.9 km from downtown Rayong city and 3 km from Koh Kloy Intersection - it will have locomotive depot on 144 rai (23.04 hectares) of land within the same railway yard. It will allow phase by phase expansion.
Klaeng station - near Moh Plian intersection - 2 km from downtown Klaeng city 
Chanthaburi station near Khao Rai Ya intersection - Sukhumvit intersects with Highway 316 - 8 km from Chanthaburi city
Trat station near PEA Trat office on Sukhumvit road - 2 km from downtown Trat
 Starting Point: the curve before turning to U-Tapao Airport - that form Triangle track that allow the train from Pataya to reach Rayong without going to U-Tapao while allow the trains from Rayong to access to U-Tapao without changing the direction 

Travel time:
U-Tapao - Trat - 64 minutes
Donmueang - Trat - 110 minutes
Ticket price: 95 Baht + (2.1 x Number of travel kilometers) 

Properties of High Speed train:
Gauge: 1.435 meters
Max speed : 250 kph 
Signal: ECTS Level 2 or CTCS level 3 or Digital ATC which is wireless signal system, 
—————————
Passenger growth can be separated into 2 cases

full implementation - U-Tapao - Rayong - Chanthaburi - Trat - Once the line has been opened in 2028. the first-year number of passengers will be 7429 men a day before climbing up to 10800 men a day in 2038, 15251 men a day in 2048 and 19,575 men a day in 2058. However, the price to pay for full implementation is 101,728 Million Baht inclduing 12,999 million Baht land expropriation, 69,148 Million Baht of construction cost, 12,088 Million Baht of Electromechanic system, and 4,664 Million Baht Rolling stocks - and the administration cost for 30 year concession is 57,383 Million Baht. EIRR is at 5.39% (lower than 12% threshold), FIRR is at -2.88% (loss ridden), NPV is -118,149 million Baht (some said NPV is -44,956 Million Baht) and B/C is 0.16. 
section by section by rising demands - which can be separated into 4 phases
U-Tapao - Rayong - investment at 20,510 Million Baht (1,837 Million Baht land expropriation 13,845 Million Baht Civil Works, 2,025 Million Baht, Electromechanic system, 3,498 Million Baht Rolling Stock ) EIRR 9.38% NPV at -4,803 Million Baht 
U-Tapao - Rayong - Klaeng => Highest FIRR at -1.12% (less loss ridden) with investment of 40,951 Million Baht (including 4,740 million Baht land expropriation, 27,080 Million Baht civil work, 4,502 Million Baht Electromechanic system, 3,498 Million Baht Rolling Stock ) and the 30 year administration cost at 30,498 Million Baht and EIRR at 7.25% with NPV at -39,487 Million Baht (some said NPV at -15,282 Million Baht) and B/C at 0.25 - the number of passengers at rayong station jumps from 2874 men a day to 6447 men a day due to the fact that those passengers from chanthaburi is going to use Klaeng station as their terminus
U-Tapao - Rayong - Klaeng - Chanthaburi - requires 30,000 million Baht more than U-Tapao - Rayong - Klaeng while the number of passengers from Chanthanuri remain more or less the same. - with investment of 71,013 Million Baht (including 8,459 million Baht land expropriation, 49,194 Million Baht civil work, 7,893 Million Baht Electromechanic system, 3,498 Million Baht Rolling Stock ) and the 30 year administration cost at 30,498 Million Baht and EIRR at 5.57 % NPV - 32,067 with NPV at -32,067 Million Baht and B/C at 0.25 
U-Tapao - Rayong - Klaeng - Chanthaburi - Trat - same as Case 1.


There are several choices for investment:

Government invests on land expropriation just like High Speed train connecting to 3 airports
Government invests on civil works like Blue ring
Government invests on both land expropriation and civil works and let private sector running the trains
For PPP investment, there are several choices for private sectors:

PPP Net cost like BTSC and High Speed train connecting 3 Airports - the preferred method of PPP 
PPP Gross Cost like MRT Purple line 
PPP Modify Gross Cost 
The way to encourage more private sector to participate in this project are

Bidding with high subsidies along with rights to make a land development along the High speed train to ensure that FIRR at positive 3 - 5% even though it could violate the land expropriation laws. Need new laws to override the existing Civil and commercial codes to allow land development other than the areas around the stations. Need amendment to allow EEC to cover the high speed train line to help this matter and extend the concession from 30 year (maximum limit according to the civil and commercial codes) to 50 years. Land expropriation issue along with EIA clearance also matter.
Negotiate with CP Holding to extend the line from U-Tapao to eliminate the need for depot at Rayong station and the need for new EMU sets to boost EIRR to break 12% limit and make positive FIRR realized. 
With such issues of encouraging more private participation, SRT would ask EEC Board to extend EEC investment packages to cover extension of High Speed train to Trat that allow commercial development along High Speed train, not to mention about 50 year concession to supersede 30 year limits as dictated by Civil and Commercial Codes. Even more concern is the inflation issue which is going to make a cost overrun as the project has been done in phase by phase basis rather than the whole 190 km line. 

Furthermore, Some from chamber of commerces in Eastern region provinces have said that it would be better to construct the double track line to support logistics while functioning as feeders for High Speed train since the Eastern railway from Sri Racha to Rayong along with Ban Chang that passes Rayong, Chanthaburi, Trat all the way to Klong Yai has a price of 90000 - 100000 million Baht with the total distance of 260 km. After all, the section from Ban Chang to Rayong has to share the same land strip as High Speed train from U-Tapao to Rayong. 
https://www.facebook.com/Thailand.Infra/posts/981717285600084
“ไฮสปีดเฟส 2” เชื่อมระยอง-ตราดรายได้ไม่คุ้ม-รฟท.เปิดทางเลือกสร้างทีละสถานี
บิ๊กทุนแจม‘ไฮสปีดเฟส 2’



__ https://www.facebook.com/TransportDailynews/posts/2660786687476166


https://www.hsrrayongchantrat.com/w.../07/เอกสารประกอบการประชุม-Market-Sounding.pdf

More detailed results from the public hearing with people from Rayong to Trat about High Speed train from U-Tapao to Trat can be seen here including more stations as well as the route changing:
สรุปการประชุมกลุ่มย่อย ครั้งที่ 1 – การรถไฟแห่งประเทศไทย


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## Wisarut

CP All is going to start the construction of High Speed Train connecting three airports on Suvannabhum - U-Tapao in February 2021 while section from Donmueang to Phyathai would be delayed to October 2023 and even the optimistic goal is January 2022. Furthermore, CP All is going to take over Airport Link as a part of High Speed Train connecting three airports in October 2021 after clearing the land expropriation issues on Lad Krabang - Suvannabhum - U-Tapao section by the end of August 2021. Furthermore, the removal of infrastructure before the construction has been started along with the termination of 213 land leasing contracts by SRT (100 contracts for Donmueang - Phyathai section to be done in December 2020 and 113 contracts along Suvannabhum - U-Tapao section to be done in October 2020). Furthermore, 569 households of those who trepassed railway land (267 households for Donmueang -Suvannabhum + 302 households from Suvannabhum to U-Tapao) have to be removed. SRT also has to grant the permission for Harbor Dept, Rural Highway Dept, MEA, PEA, MWA, PWA, Royal Thai Navy, Highway Dept to clear infrastructure on railway land along the route. 

For the additional land expropriation as demanded by CP All at 6 areas of contention (Lad Krabang station, Suvannabhum Airport, Irrigation Dept watergate at Chacheongsao, the bridge across Bang Pakong river, Khao Cheejan tunnel, and U-Tapao Airport) on 63 land plots and 48 landowners, the survey will be done in July 2020 and the conclusion will be done in August 2020 before the summary whether it has become necessary for additional EIA

CP All has to deal with existing Airport Link structure in the following manners:
1. the installation of the new signal system of ECTS-2 on Airport Link tracks and Airport Link EMUs to accommodate High Speed train EMUs .
2. station renovation with more light installation.
3. reinforcement of station and track structure to handle heavy high speed EMUs.
4. the inspection before doing the first 3 things will be done in July 2020 before executing the installation and renovation to be done in September 2021 before the official transfer to CP All in October 2021 

Reason for delay of transfer is due to the fact that those men from Italian consultant firm cannot come to inspect the structure of Airport Link due to Covid-19 - need to use E-mail contacts until those Italian consultant men have received the permission and visa clearance with health certificates to come to Thailand and passed 14-day state quarantine. 

SRT is going to transfer the section Suvannabhum to U-Tapao in February 2021 while the section from Phayathai to Donmueang has the most serious headache, hope get the land transfer done in January 2022 or October 2023 for the worst case scenario. 

For the budget for land clearning, there are 2 section to get approval from Budget Bureau - 490 Million Baht for clearing the land for CP all and 4103 million Baht to allow the removal of Utilities by Utility owners which has not been requested yet. 
ซี.พี. ตอกเข็มไฮสปีด ก.พ. 64 ประเดิมเฟสแรก "สุวรรณภูมิ-อู่ตะเภา"


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## Wisarut

Note: those local people of Rayong city has complained that Rayong station at Wat Nam Khok Kao (4.9 km from downtown Rayong city and 3 km from Koh Kloy Intersection) is too far away - better stick with the old precinct at Koh Kloy intersection even it means to double or triple the budget for land expropriation.


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## Wisarut

CP All has appointed 7 Gurus to deal with High Speed train connecting three airports with societies along the route along with the Universal Design of stations so the handicapped and senior citizens can come to use High Speed train without the need of valets and the local people would get the benefits from High Speed train connecting three airports with sustainable developments on both social capitals and environmental capitals with 4 goals to be met 
1. Environmental friendly 
2. Circular economy 
3. Inclusive economy 
4.Grassroots development. 

Furthermore, this High Speed train connecting three airport must generate both permanent jobs and temporary jobs for those who live along the route while making a strong connection with local communities and promote the local OTOP and SMEs of those local Eastern Seaboard along the route, not just those who live around the station areas. This high speed train must support people to ride more train to cut down energy consumption with human resource development and community development while preserving the local culture and traditional jobs. More human resource development through smart development along with community development to boost quality of life as a part of project development to realize country development are in need. The sustainable environmental and ecological protection are also in need for all 5 provinces along the routes (BKK, Samut Prakarn, Chachoengsao, Chonburi, Rayong). Furthermore, this high speed train must be designed in the way to allow everybody who can purchase the tickets to use the train, even they are senior citizens or the handicapped - no one is left behind. 

After all, this is the first real and serious mega project of Easter Economic Corridor (EEC) which is going to become a model for other corridors to follow. 

Here is the list of 7 Gurus 
1. Rector of King Mongkut's Institute of Technology Ladkrabang 
2. Chairman of Sufficient Economy Institute
3. CEO of Mae Fah Luang foundation under Royal Patronage 
4. deputy Dean, Faculty of Fishery, Kasetsart University 
5. Associate Professor, Faculty of Law and Administration, Boorapha University 
6. Chonburi Chamber of Commerce
7. Head of the Blind Association of Thailand

ลุยตั้งคณะทำงาน ดัน "ไฮสปีดเชื่อม 3 สนามบิน" 
“ซีพี” ดึง 7 กูรูเสริมทัพสร้างความเชื่อมั่นโครงการรถไฟฟ้าความเร็วสูง 
"ซีพี" ตั้ง 7 ผู้ทรงคุณวุฒิ ร่วมพัฒนารถไฟไฮสปีดเชื่อม 3 สนามบิน 








'ซีพี'ระดมสมองวางแผนสร้างความเชื่อมั่นไฮสปีดเทรนเชื่อม 3 สนามบิน


บริษัทรถไฟความเร็วสูงสายตะวันออกเชื่อมสามสนามบินเชิญผู้ทรงคุณวุฒิร่วมพัฒนาความยั่งยืนโครงการรถไฟความเร็วสูงเชื่อมสามสนามบิน ตอกย้ำจุดยืนขับเคลื่อนธุรกิจคู่ขนานไปกับการพัฒนาที่ยั่งยืนเพื่อประเทศไทย พร้อมเปิดมุมมองครั้งแรกของคณะที่ปรึกษาชูแนวคิดพัฒนาอย่างยั่งยืนครบวงจร




www.thaipost.net


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## Wisarut

During the public hearing on High Speed train extension from U-Tapao to Trat at AVADA Hotel in Trat, those 300 men who participate that public hearing had learnt that the EIRR of this extension to Trat is at 5.39%, well below the minimum of 12% EIRR - only the section from U-Tapao to Klaeng has the best chance with EIRR of about 9%. This has become a big upset. so the only remedy is to come up with massive double tracking from Ban Chang all the way to Klong Yai via Rayong, Klaeng, Chanthaburi and Trat 
‘คนตราด’ส่อแห้ว! ประเมินไฮสปีดเทรนเชื่อม 3 สนามบินไม่คุ้มลงทุน


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## Wisarut

Map of High Speed train connecting three Airport including the extension to Trat


https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1Rn3edZkrx0HqZ7UHLV1u_w7YevI37Cp6&hl=en&ll=12.729723554579525%2C101.88053868174642&z=12


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## Wisarut

More details on 5 zones of development for Ayutthaya Railway station TOD
Zone 1: Development on Railway station building for massive double tracking and High Speed train along with the railway office and officer apartments and housings.

Zone 2: Commercial area along Rojana Road (the main road to Ayutthaya Industrial estate) with low rise building not higher than 30 meters which include hotels. office buildings, seminar and convention center and low rise condominiums.

Zone 3: Commercial area to supper tourism and the mall around the station areas including shops, restaurants, hotels, malls, apartments, and guesthouses to support both tourists and business travelers.

Zone 4: Commercial and resident including middle class condominiums, high class condominiums, shopping mall and retailers for growing communities around the station.

Zone 5: high class residents for those long term residents and tourists.

There will be 2 major areas for TOD Ayutthaya
1. Ayutthaya city Island
Northern limit: Pa Phrao road
Southern limit: Rojana road
Western limit: Cheekun road
Eastern limit: Pasak river

Virtually no new construction other than the bridge across Pasak river to allow convenient connection between Railway station and those who live and work in Ayutthya city island by foots, bicycles or small mass transits

2. Ayodhaya city Municipal on the eastern bank of Pasak river

Northern limit: Wat Ayodhaya and Pasak river
Southern limit: Rojana road
Western limit: Pasak river
Eastern limit: Ayodhaya Municipal road

For the mass transit lines, here is the list to be done - either by existing minibus companies or the new companies
1. Railway station - Rojana Industrial estate
2. Chao Phrom market - Railway station - Government Complex of Ayutthaya
3. Ayutthaya city Island
4. Chao Phrom market - Ayutthaya Historical Park - Ayuthaya Hospital
5. Chao Phrom market - Rajabhat Ayutthaya
6. Railway station - Ayuthaya floating market



__ https://www.facebook.com/Thailand.Infra/posts/994510920987387





__ https://www.facebook.com/491766874595130/posts/718483315256817










สนข.ลุยพัฒนาพื้นที่รอบสถานีรถไฟอยุธยา


สนข.เปิดให้ประชาชนมีส่วนร่วม พัฒนา TOD ชู 5 โซนพัฒนาพื้นที่รอบสถานีรถไฟอยุธยา ลั่นช่วยดันเมืองมรดกโลกรองรับศูนย์กลางการค้าและบริการท่องเที่ยว




www.thaipost.net




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELEGivS-tpc


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## Seksunjd

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## VITORIA MAN

nice design !!!


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## Wisarut

CP Plan for upgrading Airport Link with billions of Baht as investment even before the takeover in October 2021, no more luggage section on Airport Express (four car formation set of EMU) since it will be converted to seats as the cheap measure (just 150 million Baht) before the New EMUs for connecting three airports has become a reality in the next 2-3 year after October 2021 (the day CP has taken over Airport Link by paying SRTET at 10,671 Million Baht). CP All waiting for FS from Italy to come to Thailand in October 2020 to deal with Airport LInk, with the help from EEC Board. CP All, will consider only the competent men of SRTET to be on contract with CP All while the rest will be replaced by the newly recruited with the competent SRTET men as their mentors. 

From the preliminary investigation, on 9 sets of EMUs, telecom system, electric distribution, equipment in the maintenance center at Klong Tan, signals, gets, civil works, spare parts in the inventories, the results said they they are usable but there is a real need for replacing the proprieties signals of Siemens to become the opened signal systems to allow cheaper EMUs to run. Now, CP All has gotten the list for major upgrades but need to set the proper schedules and investment for major upgrades which requires at least 1000 Million Baht. 

Next upgrades are parking lots, the access roads to all stations such as the case of Makkasan Central. The new underground connection with Phetburi subway station to complement with existing skywalk connection will be implemented. Commercial development around Makkasan Central on 140 Rai (22.4 hectares) of land will be implemented. For commercial development around U-Tapao station, CP All will have to wait for the planning of U-Tapao Airport development from BTSC-Bangkok Airways so as to finalize the exact position of U-Tapao station. 

Construction from Suvannabhum to U-Tapao with the distance of 170 km will start in February - March 2021 with a hope to be done in 2026. Italian Thai development PCL (ITD PCL) will handle the construction while China Railway Construction (CRCC) will handle ECTS-2 signal and system installation. There are a lot of choices for EMUs from Siemens, Bombardier, Alstom, Hyundai-ROTEM, CRRC-Sifang, Hitachi. BEM PCL and Ch. Karnchang PCL still focus on Orange Line MRT (Bang Khun Nont - Minburi) Bidding, so they have not made any decision on High Speed train yet. 

Now, ITD PCL has come up with construction plan as section by section, 30-40 km per section and take 5 years to be done and opened in 2026 rather than 2023 and section from Makkasan to Donmueang will be delayed by 1-2 year up to the land transfer.

According to the plan, 3 main sections to be done

Phayathai - Suvannabhum - 28 km will be transferred immediately after paying SRTET at 10,671 Million Baht
Suvanabhum - U-Taphao - 170 km to be done in 2 years but can be speed up to 15 months
Phyathai - Donmueang - 22 km to be done in 4 year but speed up to 27 months. 
Land expropriation will be 885 rai 3 Ngan 88 Square Wah (141.7552 hectares) on 931 land plots, 360 building, 517 land plots of trees, 1352 huts of slum dwellers (782 huts of slum dwellers on Donmueang to Suvannabhum even though only 560 huts will have to be settled along with those 570 huts from Suvannabhum to U-Tapao), 
Phayathai to Suvannabhum can be ignored so only 560 slum dwellers need to be settled. 

Rumor widespread that CP Want to Construct the Sri Racha station at the new precinct and the new Pataya station at Ban Huay Kwang [13.2 km south existing Pataya railway station][ on CP Land of 600 Rai (96 Hectares) which CP plan for commercial developments on their own land after the land price has been shot up to 10 million Baht per Rai (6.2.5 Million Baht per hectare) and those land in question are in the hand of those real estate developers. However, since the new station will require extra EIA clearance just like the case of 5 bones of contention. After all, CP All has made unofficial talk with SRT on the land around station issues which implies that 25 Rai (4 Hectares) of SRT land around Sri Racha station along with 200 Rai (32 hectares) around Pataya station still not large enough to satisfy the endless demands from CP All.
ซี.พี. อัพเกรดแอร์พอร์ตลิงก์ ย้ายสถานีไฮสปีด "พัทยา" เข้าเมืองใหม่


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## Wisarut

New Design of Khon Kaen station of High Speed Train without redesigning the recently opened Khon Kaen elevated station has incorporated the architecture of Isan style Chapel hall with decoration of solar at the roof section of façade while the rest of the façade would be Isan style of bamboo wickerwork with the internal decoration of mouth-organ,. bamboo wickerwork, Isan style silk handwoven and Golden Shower Tree. This station also has a via duct to connect with the future Khon Kaen LRT. 



__ https://www.facebook.com/Thailand.Infra/posts/1029283167510162


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## Wisarut

It took 2 years and 6 months for Highway Dept to learn how to construct the 3.5 km permanent ways for Thai - China High Speed train from Klang Dong to Pang Asoke from km 150 + 500 to km 154 + 000 and compile the textbooks on how to construct permanent way for High Speed train in Thai language using their experience with Chinese supervisors to be distributed to all contractors who is going to handle the other 13 contracts for constructing Thai - China High Speed train. This section will be transferred to SRT by the end of September 2020. 

The construction of high speed train permanent ways starts with clearing the land by cutting and uprooting the grasses and trees and removing debris and compacting the soil, testing the compacted soil to check the load the way way the soil has deformed. 

98% of raw materials including concrete, reinforced steel rods, and top layer materials, can be purchased from domestic sources while the other 2% have to be imported including special canvas to protect humidity from ruining the permanent ways and the ground wires to handle the 25000 Volt AC electricity 

The construction of the permanernt ways also also including 4 km paved access road with 2 lanes and the width of 6 meter. The permanent way of High speed train must be 300 cm thickness and last at least 100 years before major rehabilitation - and the permanent way in question must handle 250 - 280 kph high speed train and the materails must pass CBR (California Bearing Ratio) test on Embankment layer, 210 - 230 cm thick bottom layer, and 70 cm thick top layer (sub ballast) that need to mix with 19% 2 inch ballast, 9% half inch ballast, and 72% stone dust with 5% water. There will be sand and special humidity proof canvas layer between bottom layer and top layer. After top layer is done, the next layer is ballast and plate laying. 

This has required a lot of trials and errors while improving the communication with Chinese supervisors and it took 6 months to make both Thai workers and Thai engineers along with Chinese supervisors to understand one another about the mixed design, technical learning, how to select the raw materials, how to mix the material, and other engineering details. Highway Dept also have a deep respect to Chinese supervisors for setting very high standard for selecting the raw materials to the point Highway Dept men have to use this experience for the construction and rehabilitating existing 100000 km highway nationwide. 
สร้าง 2 ปี 6 เดือน คันทางไฮสปีดไทย-จีน ช่วง "กลางดง-ปางอโศก" 3.5 กม.
ก.ย.นี้ ส่งมอบรถไฟไทย-จีน เฟสแรก



__ https://www.facebook.com/TransportDailynews/posts/2712432662311568


เสร็จแล้ว! รถไฟไทย-จีน 3.5 กม.แรก ก่อสร้างมาราธอน 2 ปี 6 เดือน
http://songkhlastation.com/pdf/C-200917004065.pdf



__ https://www.facebook.com/departmentofhighway/posts/3275440219198162


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## Wisarut

When CP All has shown their true nature on Hihg Speed train connecting three Airports Project



__ https://www.facebook.com/reporterjourney/posts/1557179321121054


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## Wisarut

PM Prayut and the cabinet are going to approve the purchase of New EMUs [officially known as The Trackwork, Electrical and Mechanical (E&M) System, EMU, and Training Contract ] for Thai High Speed train with China Railway International Co.,LTD (CRIC) and China Railway Design Corporation (CRDC)at 50,633.50 Million Baht (7% VAT included) on 29 October 2020, up from 38,558.38 Million Baht approved on 29 August 2017 by 12,075.12 Million Baht due to the following necessary changes:

1. the purchase of Infrastructure Maintenance machines and instruments along with the construction of EMU Facility along with Track Welding and Storage Base and Long Track Storage Base. This has been moved from civil work section to The Trackwork, Electrical and Mechanical (E&M) System. This change has added the expenditure by 
7,032.78 Million Baht 

2. the changes of High Speed train EMU from CRG2G (Hexie Hao) due to Intellectual Properties issue along with the issue of obsolescence to CR Series (Fuxing Hao) which is newer generation of Chinese High Speed train without the Intellectual properties issues as well as the up to date technologies. This change has added the cost by 2,530.38 Million Baht

3. the change of Ballasted Track to Ballastless Track at Bangsue - Donmueang section and the station yard of Ayutthaya, Saraburi, Pakchong, Nakhon Ratchasima and the tracks within the tunnel. This change has added the cost by 2,227.57 Million Baht

4. Other expenditures including the extension of guarantee from 1 year to 2 years to meet the requirement of Thai procurement regulation at 284.39 Million Baht
This contract has to be done within 64 Months period after signing the contracts 








ประยุทธ์ เตรียมลงนามรถไฟไทย-จีน วงเงิน 5 หมื่นล้าน 29 ต.ค. 63


ครม. เห็นชอบ ปรับกรอบวงเงินและร่างข้อตกลงการจ้างและสัญญาจ้างสัญญางาน ระบบราง ระบบไฟฟ้าและเครื่องกล รวมทั้งจัดหาขบวนรถไฟและจัดฝึกอบรมบุคลากร (สัญญา 2.3)




www.prachachat.net


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## Wisarut

Design of Udonthani station for High Speed train which will be at the same place as the existing Udonthani station which is going to have the new elevated station building once Khon Kaen - Nong Khai double tracking has become a reality. The Udonthani station of High Speed train will have the internal decoration of Ban Chiang terracotta pots. 

There will be 2 access roads to this station - the main western section at the circle in front of existing Udonthani station and the secondary eastern section at Rotfai road. 

The station building will be 3 floors - the first floor to sell the tickets with 2 major zones - the zone for double tracking and the main office of Udonthani station and High speed train ticket station. 
The second floor will be the platform for double tracking with the passenger hall with air conditioned room and non air conditioned room. 
The second floor will have the control room for High Speed train station. The third floor will be the platform for high speed train with 2 platforms and 4 tracks - 2 are the passing loops for the trains to stop while the middle 2 main track will be for those special High Speed express with nonstop service from Nong Khai to Bangkok and vice versa.




__ https://www.facebook.com/Thailand.Infra/posts/1034803743624771


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## hkskyline

* SRT asked to respect slum dwellers *
Bangkok Post _Excerpt_
Oct 6, 2020

A group representing city slum dwellers on Monday asked the State Railway of Thailand (SRT) to take care of 30,000 people affected by infrastructure projects related to the high-speed train network.

Members of the Four Slum Region Network, an advocacy groups for marginalised communities in the kingdom, marked World Habitat Day by submitting a petition to the SRT.

It asks Transport Minister Saksayam Chidchob to look after 30,000 low-income residents living on SRT land by railway tracks and stations.

"Slum dwellers are always asked to make a sacrifice and move out when the state wants to lease or use public land for development schemes," said Nuengnitch Chidnok, president of the Four Slum Region Network after submitting the petition.

"The authorities and policy makers never bother to listen to their voices and there has been no help for those evicted from state property," she said.

More : SRT asked to respect slum dwellers


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## Wisarut

hkskyline said:


> * SRT asked to respect slum dwellers *
> Bangkok Post _Excerpt_
> Oct 6, 2020
> 
> 
> More : SRT asked to respect slum dwellers


The usually obstructive way of those overbearing NGOs who got donation by continuing the agitation with the cooperation from those Slum mafia who pretend to be poor slum dwellers to gain public sympathy despite of the fact that they have already gotten Free Satellite dishes so as to enable to watch TV as they please. How Shameless they are!



__ https://www.facebook.com/PPTVHD36/posts/4966306346720438


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## Wisarut

PM Prayut and the cabinet are going to approve the purchase of New EMUs [officially known as The Trackwork, Electrical and Mechanical (E&M) System, EMU, and Training Contract ] for Thai High Speed train with China Railway International Co.,Ltd (CRIC) and China Railway Design Corporation (CRDC) at 50,633.50 Million Baht (7% VAT included) on 28 October 2020, up from 38,558.38 Million Baht approved on 29 August 2017 by 12,075.12 Million Baht
due to the following necessary changes:

1. the purchase of Infrastructure Maintenance machines and instruments along with the construction of EMU Facility along with Track Welding and Storage Base and Long Track Storage Base. This has been moved from civil work section to The Trackwork, Electrical and Mechanical (E&M) System. This change has added the expenditure by 
7,032.78 Million Baht 

2. the changes of High-Speed train EMU from CRG2G (Hexie Hao) due to Intellectual Properties issue along with the issue of obsolescence to CR Series (Fuxing Hao) which is newer generation of Chinese High-Speed train without the Intellectual properties issues as well as the up to date technologies. This change has added the cost by 2,530.38 Million Baht

3. the change of Ballasted Track to Ballastless Track at Bangsue - Donmueang section and the station yard of Ayutthaya, Saraburi, Pakchong, Nakhon Ratchasima and the tracks within the tunnel. This change has added the cost by 2,227.57 Million Baht

4. Other expenditures including the extension of guarantee from 1 year to 2 years to meet the requirement of Thai procurement regulation at 284.39 Million Baht


PM Prayut also telling SRT along with Dept of Rail Transport to make a settlement with Fine Arts Dept on the design of Ayutthaya High Speed train station while SRT must speed up on EIA Report to get EIA Clearance from Ban Phachi to Nakhon Ratchasima 
ดีเดย์! 28 ต.ค.นายกฯ นั่งหัวโต๊ะ เซ็นสัญญา 2.3 รถไฟไทย-จีน 5.06 หมื่นล้าน 



__ https://www.facebook.com/TransportDailynews/posts/2729627023925465


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## hkskyline

Wisarut said:


> The usually obstructive way of those overbearing NGOs who got donation by continuing the agitation with the cooperation from those Slum mafia who pretend to be poor slum dwellers to gain public sympathy despite of the fact that they have already gotten Free Satellite dishes so as to enable to watch TV as they please. How Shameless they are!
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/PPTVHD36/posts/4966306346720438


Do they get priority for public housing or other resettlement options? How does it work in Thailand where public infrastructure projects displace residents, even these ones who probably don't have any title to the land?


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## Wisarut

hkskyline said:


> Do they get priority for public housing or other resettlement options? How does it work in Thailand where public infrastructure projects displace residents, even these ones who probably don't have any title to the land?


Well, even with the new housing, it has become necessary to create jobs near their apartments and housings though. Those slum dwellers are such wayward persons though.


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## Wisarut

World Heritage Center along with UNESCO and Fine Arts Dept have raised a concern on Ayutthaya High Speed train station since the current design of Ayutthaya High Speed train station along with TOD idea of using Ayutthaya High Speed train station as transportation hub is going to force World Heritage Center and UNESCO to delist Ayutthaya from World Heritage status.
Therefore, Fine Arts Dept is asking consultant to redesign Ayutthaya High Speed train station as much lower rise building than the existing design with less space with much simple but blend with environment - with absolutly necessary space for transportation hub
Furthermore, Fine Art Dept has told that TOD for Ayutthaya High Speed train station should focus MORE Tourism and recreation than economic and commercial development that please investors around Rojana Industrial estate. Fine Arts Dept along with Ministry of Culture going to set up working committee to make a serious assessment on the design of Aytthaya High Speed train station along with TOD since Fine Art Dept has virtually everything to say about this high speed train station design and TOD. 
ยูเนสโกส่งสัญญาณรถไฟความเร็วสูงกระทบมรดกโลกอยุธยา


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## Wisarut

Here is the design of Ayutthaya High Speed train station which Fine Arts Dept and UNESCO have raised the issue to the point that there is a serious reconsideration to move Ayutthaya High Speed train station to Ban Mah (km 74.69) rather than existing Ayutthaya station at km 71.08 with the access to Highway No. 32 (AKA Asian Highway)








ยูเนสโกห่วง'สถานีไฮสปีดอยุธยา' หามาตรการดูแล ไม่กระทบมรดกโลก


วันที่ 7 ต.ค. - นายประทีป เพ็งตะโก อธิบดีกรมศิลปากร กล่าวว่า จากการประชุมหารือร่วมกับ นายสรพงศ์ ไพฑูรย์พงษ์ รองปลัดกระทรวงคมนาคม และนายพิเชฐ คุณา ธรรมรักษ์ รองอธิบดีกรมการขนส่งทางราง พร้อมด้วยเจ้าหน้าที่ของการรถไฟแห่ง




www.thaipost.net







Wisarut said:


> World Heritage Center along with UNESCO and Fine Arts Dept have raised a concern on Ayutthaya High Speed train station since the current design of Ayutthaya High Speed train station along with TOD idea of using Ayutthaya High Speed train station as transportation hub is going to force World Heritage Center and UNESCO to delist Ayutthaya from World Heritage status.
> Therefore, Fine Arts Dept is asking consultant to redesign Ayutthaya High Speed train station as much lower rise building than the existing design with less space with much simple but blend with environment - with absolutly necessary space for transportation hub
> Furthermore, Fine Art Dept has told that TOD for Ayutthaya High Speed train station should focus MORE Tourism and recreation than economic and commercial development that please investors around Rojana Industrial estate. Fine Arts Dept along with Ministry of Culture going to set up working committee to make a serious assessment on the design of Aytthaya High Speed train station along with TOD since Fine Art Dept has virtually everything to say about this high speed train station design and TOD.
> ยูเนสโกส่งสัญญาณรถไฟความเร็วสูงกระทบมรดกโลกอยุธยา


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## Unknow2

hkskyline said:


> Do they get priority for public housing or other resettlement options? How does it work in Thailand where public infrastructure projects displace residents, even these ones who probably don't have any title to the land?


Let's split the case into 2

First, if they have rights for said land. Usually, government will told you to move out and give you a compensation. Base on evaluated price or last recorded buy/sell price that has been registered with Department of Lands, depend on which is higher.

Evaluated price is a survey of land price by Department of Lands conducted every few years. Usually it is much lower than the market price. This is kind of a bottom-line price as they need some kind of number to work with (base number for taxation etc.).

Department of Lands will know how much you got from selling or you paying for a plot of land. Because by Thai law, both parties(buyer and seller) have to notify them that ownership of the land has been switch. You are required to tell them the price of the deal, which then will be taxed. If you tell them it's zero, or some ridiculously low number to dodge the tax, they will use the evaluated price. So most people will told the cheapest price possible.

Mostly, this will run into 3 problems. Evaluated price is very low so you get underpay. Or ,assuming you tell them the truth when you bought the land, inflation caught up (because you might bought this plot of land 40 years ago) and you get underpay. Usually, this first two will be settle easily. The third is a bit complicate and kinda same with the second case, so I'll explain it there.

Secondly, a trespasser. Usually they are the more problematic than the first. Because the will demand compensation for the plot of land they didn't own. Mostly, government will pay them to move out (which I don't understand why). Problem is, a lot of them can afford a decent house in the suburb. But the plot of land they trespass has business opportunity. They might open a stall or something there and a demand to move out means the end for their income. This can also be the 3rd problem the first case run into. They might own a plot of land and that said land generate their income. In this case, public hosing isn't the option. They don't want house, they want business opportunity. Or at least, money. That's why public housing offer never works.



Wisarut said:


> Here is the design of Ayutthaya High Speed train station which Fine Arts Dept and UNESCO have raised the issue to the point that there is a serious reconsideration to move Ayutthaya High Speed train station to Ban Mah (km 74.69) rather than existing Ayutthaya station at km 71.08 with the access to Highway No. 32 (AKA Asian Highway)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ยูเนสโกห่วง'สถานีไฮสปีดอยุธยา' หามาตรการดูแล ไม่กระทบมรดกโลก
> 
> 
> วันที่ 7 ต.ค. - นายประทีป เพ็งตะโก อธิบดีกรมศิลปากร กล่าวว่า จากการประชุมหารือร่วมกับ นายสรพงศ์ ไพฑูรย์พงษ์ รองปลัดกระทรวงคมนาคม และนายพิเชฐ คุณา ธรรมรักษ์ รองอธิบดีกรมการขนส่งทางราง พร้อมด้วยเจ้าหน้าที่ของการรถไฟแห่ง
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thaipost.net


Moving a station to Ban Mah should be the last last last last last option. Maybe a redesign to the roof should help? Since there's already a row of 3-story apartment building on the other side of the riverbank to block the view.


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## Jero1971

Hi Guys, I am new here, but super interested in Transport and High Rise Buildings. I live in Bangkok and have a Real Estate Company, so see the whole town and have access to many buildings. I make videos about this.


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## Wisarut

Nong Khai High Speed train station - station that function as International station for transferring between Thai - China railway and Lao - China Railway will be at slightly different from existing Nong Khai station at km 621 + 100 since the station is at the western end of Nong Khai Railway Yard. 

On the other hand, existing Nong Khai station will have platforms improved and the crossing point between platforms. Nong Khai station at km 621 + 100 has been opened in 2000 to supersede the old Nong Khai station at km 623 + 580 which has been downgraded to halt in 2000 and removed out the list in 2008. 

Nong Khai High Speed train station will have both immigration office and custom office (definitely CIQ). 

There will be 2 access roads to this station - 
the main entrance is at the road that connect the old Friendship Highway (Highway No. 243 - the Northern end of both High-speed train station and existing Nong Khai railway station) and Nong Khai government Complex - Ban Na Kai road (the Southern end of High-Speed train station) near Ban Don Doo Moo 1 Welfare Center and Tong Nueng Boutique House Hotel. 

the secondary entrance is on Nong Khai railway road (the main access of the existing Nong Khai Railway station) 

Nong Khai High Speed train station building will be 3 floors - with connection to the existing Nong Khai railway station by via duct across the platform, the access needs to walk through existing platforms of Nong Khai station. 

the first floor to sell the tickets with 2 major zones 

the zone for domestic travelers - the main axis of Nong Khai railway station with escalators to second floor for passenger waiting room
the zone for International travelers with arrival and departure on Northern and Southern end - with health quarantine zone along immigration office along with quarantine center for checking plants, animals, food, and drugs along with custom office which will be the same as International Airports.
The second floor will be passenger halls with both airconditioned room and non airconditioned room. The second floor is the operating office for High Speed train service
The second floor will have the control room for High Speed train station. 
The third floor will be the platform for high speed train with 5 platforms and 6 tracks - 4 domestic platform and 1 international platform with one track without platform for the cargo trains of Lao - China railway to head to Natha for Transshipments of cargoes.

External design of station would be modern building with local arts in details with Lord Naga, Waves, Mekhong river and steaming sticky rice pot. The front section will have 1 main triangular roof and 2 secondary triangular roofs taken from Naga mouth while showing the hood. The facade f station will use waves and the pattern of sticky rice pot made by weaving. There will be Naga at the center of the pool in front of the station 
The internal design will have naga image along with the scale of naga with earth brown color, azure color and white color.,

the track will be elevated before reaching Highway 211 (Highway to Tha Bo) to pass the ex Nong Song Hong railway station before passing Na Tha Transshipment Point to Nong khai high speed train station before reaching the Friendship Bridge




__ https://www.facebook.com/Thailand.Infra/posts/1041958519575960


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## Wisarut

SRT Board is going to approve the bidding result for Chiang Rak Noy Depot and Traffic Control Center for Thai - China High Speed train and Italian Thai Development PCL is the winner with the bidding result of 6,514 Million Baht, down from the mean price of 7,664 Million Baht by 1,149.6 Million Baht. Furthermore, SRT Board needs to give 1-year extension for Civil Engineer Co.Ltd. who has been handling the construction of 11 km permanent way from Sikiw - Kudjik with a price tag of 3,115 Million Baht due to the issue of moving the signal from the existing railway line. The design and settlement for Bangsue Central to Donmueang has not been finalized yet since it needs to get CP approval due to the issue of space sharing,. 
15 ต.ค.นี้ เคาะผลประมูลอีก 1 สัญญา'ไฮสปีดไทย-จีน' 








ไฮสปีดเทรนไทย-จีนสะดุด! จ่อขยายเวลาก่อสร้างสัญญา 2-1 ระยะทาง 11 กิโล-ชงบอร์ดเคาะอิตาเลียนไทย ซิวงาน - ข่าวสด


รถไฟไทย-จีนสะดุด - รายงานข่าวจากการรถไฟแห่งประเทศไทย (รฟท.) กระทรวงคมนาคม เปิดเผยว่า ในการประชุมบอร์ดรฟท. วันที่ 15 ต.ค. รฟท. จะนำเสนอผลการประมูล โครงการก่อสร้างรถไฟความเร็วสูง (ไฮสปีดเทรน) ไทย-จีน เส้นทางกรุงเทพฯ-นครราชสีมา งานสัญญาที่ 4-4 งานก่อสร้างศูนย์ซ่อมบำรุงเชียงรากน้อย วงเงิน 7,664...




www.khaosod.co.th







__ https://www.facebook.com/TransportDailynews/posts/2737400883148079


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## Wisarut

On the issue of development around High Speed train connecting 3 airports - Now, KMITL Rector has pressed the demands to the CP All CEO to construct Phrachom Klao station to bring those who work, study in KMITL as well as those local people of Hua Takhe area to become regular passengers of High Speed trains connecting three airports


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## Wisarut

Signing the 50,633.5 Million Baht contracts on the High Speed train EMUs, high speed rail system, ECTS-2 signal, training, technology transfers between SRT and China Railway International / China Railway Design Corporation at Santi Maitri building of the Government House. 









Here is the CR Series ( Fuxing Hao) EMUs to be used for Thai - China High Speed train with 250 kph Max speed due to the Intellectual Properties issue with CRG2G (Hexie Hao). Thailand has to purchase 6 sets of Fuxing Hao in 8 -car formation with the price tag of 7,010 Million Baht, down from 7,200 Million Baht after bargaining to cut down from 1,200 Million Baht per set to 1,166 Million Baht per set. 

Each set of Fuxing Hao consist of 2 Business Class carriages, 4 Standard Class carriages, 1 restaurant car and ordinary carriages without facilities with total seats of 594 seats including 96 sets of First Class (Business class) and 498 seats of Standard Class.

The system will have vibration controls on 3 axis including Lateral, Vertical, Longitudinal and Realtime.

For the progress, the 12.33 km tunnel section at Muak Lek and Lamtakhong will get the extension from 31 October 2020 to 31 January 2021 due to covid-19 and the way to deal with ongoing double track section. 
https://www.facebook.com/sod.mot/videos/1227957547588662/








จับตา นายกฯ เซ็นสัญญา "ไฮสปีดไทย-จีน" สัญญา 2.3 วันนี้


รฟท.จับมือไชน่าเรลเวย์ ลงนามสัญญาโครงการก่อสร้างรถไฟความเร็วสูง (ไฮสปีดไทย-จีน) ช่วงกรุงเทพฯ-นครราชสีมา จ่อทุ่มงบ 5 หมื่นล.จัดหาขบวนรถไฟ-เพิ่มบุคลากร




www.thansettakij.com












เปิดสเปก "ฟู่ซิ่งเฮ่า" รถไฟความเร็วสูงเมดอินไชน่าปักหมุดไฮสปีด กทม.-โคราช


นับจากครั้งแรกวันที่ 21 ธ.ค. 2560 ที่จับจอบขุดดินถมคันทางสร้างช่วงสถานีกลางดง-ปางอโศก ระยะทาง 3.5 กม. ณ มอหลักหิน เพื่อริเริ่มโครงการ วันที่ 28 ต.ค. 2563




www.prachachat.net


----------



## Wisarut

PR Dept reported on signing 50,633.50 Million Baht contract for CR300 EMUs and ECTS-2 signal along with technology transfer and training of Thai Railway men to handle Thai - China High Speed train at 3 PM at the Government House:









Prime Minister and Defense Minister General Prayut Chan-o-cha has presided over the signing of a 50.63-billion-baht contract, known as "Contract 2.3,” under the Thai-Chinese high-speed railway project.

The signing ceremony took place at 15.00 hr on 28 October 2020 at Government House. Governor of the State Railway of Thailand Niruj Maneepun represented Thailand in signing the contract, while China was represented by China Railway International Company and China Railway Design Corporation.

The contract covers trackwork, electrical and mechanical systems, and staff training for the Bangkok - Nong Khai high-speed rail project (Phase 1 of the Bangkok - Nakhon Ratchasima section). It involves a 253-kilometre track and will last 64 months. This railway is expected to open for public service in 2025.

At the signing ceremony, the Prime Minister cited this railway as a strategic line that would enhance the competitiveness of Thailand. It would also serve as a key mechanism for national and regional development, linking with major cities along the rail route that could be further developed into regional hubs.


https://thailand.prd.go.th/ewt_news.php?nid=10307



























More details on 253-km Thai - China High speed train using 6 sets of Fuxing Hao CR300 EMUs in 8-car formation (2 first class carriages and 6 second class carriages) with max speed of 250 kph including technology transfers and training with the price tag of 50,633.50 Million Baht.

There will be 6 stations along the route including
1. Bangsue Central (the same as red line commuter)
2. Donmueang (connecting with red line commuter) 








3. Ayutthaya using the old precinct of Ayutthaya railway station 








4. Saraburi on Highway 362 (Saraburi Bypass road - 3 km from existing Saraburi station at Pak Priaw) - will have the new railway station to connect with existing railway networks which function as the feeder 








5. Pakchong station on Highway 2247 near Sub Muang on the land of Army Ordinance - 5 km from existing Pakchong station in downtown Pakchong - will have the new railway station to connect with existing railway networks which function as the feeder 








6. Nakhon Ratchasima station using the old precinct of Ayutthaya railway station at Hua Rotfai market. 

The 253 km route will be electrified double track in standard gauge - with ballast-less section from Bangsue to Rangsit and the 12.33 km tunnel section at Muak Lek and Lam Takhong along with the station area of Ayutthaya, Saraburi, Pakchong and Nakhon Ratchasima. The rest will be ballast track. 

3 Maintenance center will be at 

Chiang Rak Noy (km 56 - with rolling stock repairing center and traffic control center)
Track Maintenance center at Saraburi and Khok Sa-ad
Frequency - 90 Minute interval running from 6 AM to 10 PM with a hope that the traffic period will be extended from 5 AM to midnight with the interval shortened to 45 - 60 minutes in response to the intercity bus between Mochit 2 Bus terminal and Khorat Bus terminal which run 24 hours a day 7 days week. 

Ticket price calculation: 80 Baht + (1.8 * travelling distance in km)

From Bangsue Central, the ticket price will be as follows: 

Donmueang 105 Baht
Ayutthaya 195 Baht
Saraburi 278 Baht
Pakchong 393 Baht
Nakhon Ratchasima 536 Baht
First year of service will have the estimated number of passengers at 5,315 men a day from Bangsue Central - Nakhon Ratchasima section with the rest will added up to 20,000 men a day 



__ https://www.facebook.com/Thailand.Infra/posts/1057547391350406


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## Wisarut

Design of the High Speed train from Nakhon Ratchasima to Nong Khai including High Speed train stations from Bua Yai to Nong Khai with the local elements even though the designs have not been finalized yet due to the needs of feedbacks from the local people to correct any shortcomings during public hearing 




__ https://www.facebook.com/ThaiRailNews/posts/3403220333093268


https://www.hsrkorat-nongkhai.com/w...2-Presentation_Focus-Group_Final_20201028.pdf 



__ https://www.facebook.com/hsrkorattonongkhai/posts/209801063899916


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## Wisarut

Land Expropriation for High Speed train connecting 3 Air ports will be about 6 times of assessed prices by Treasury Dept - to be paid in January 2021 before transferring all the land plots to CP All in August 2021

CP All making some changes on the places to set up High Speed train station to feed New City on CP All estates 

220-km High Speed train station connecting 3 airports with prices tag of 224,544 Million Baht has helped to spin up the land prices in EEC Zone (Chachoengsao, Chonburi and Rayong), forcing the land expropriation cost on679 households on 931 land plots (850 Rai - 136 Hectares) from 3570 Million Baht to 8000 Million Baht to the point that SRT is begging teh cabinet to approve the extra budget for land expropriation so as to transfer the land to CP All in August 2021, the payment startedd in January 2021. 

Now, CP All is asking to move Chachoengsao station of High Speed train to the new city of Paed riw, Chonburi station of High Speed train, Sri Racha station of High Speed trainand Pattaya station of High Speed train to Ban Huay Kwang as the measures to deal with rising cost for land expropriation along with the boost of CP All estate. To be fair, the 50 year concession has allowed the changes of station for high speed trains even though it is CP All (Concession holders) have to deal with EIA on their own with their own expenditure of land expropriation with need 6-12 month to be done while such a change will need permission from SRT Board. At the time being, EEC Board would need to get the final settlement of stations by CP All by the mid November 2020. This will be serious issue on Chachoengsao station for High Speed train and Depot on 550 Rai of land (88 Hectares) if CP did not the land which government is trying to do land expropriate and the land expropriation will have to be done by October 2021 and construct in 5 years to be done in 2026. Heavy fine would apply to CP for any delays. 

SRT has to deal with land expropriation along with those 36 cases of unsettled cases of land expropriatin and 267 settled cases of railway land encroachment so as to transfer Suvannabhum - U-Tapao to CP All in August 2021 and Phaythai - Donmueang in October 2023. The infrastructure removal on 756 spots is not the real problems since those owners of infrastructure are working on infrastructure removal with the budget of 4103 Million Baht 

Furthermore, the 2800 Rai (448 Hectares) land expropriation and TOD for Thai - China Railway at Saraburi, Pakchong, and Khorat will be started in 2021.

The reason why CP All want to change the station positions from existing railway stations (other than Chachoengsao station which is 1500 meters away from existing Chachoengsao Junction station) is due to the fact that CP Want to come with their own version of TOD other than Makkasan and Sri Racha which OTP has already come up such a plan. 
So far, CP All has come up with Chachoengsao station for High Speed train between existing Chachoengsao and existing Don Sri Nont station (Southeastern bank of Bang Pakong river) betwen Highway 304 and Highway 315, slightly far from downtown Chachoengsao city instead of the paddy field near Chachoengsao Provincial Central Stadium (Subin Pimpayachan Stadium).

For the case of Chonburi station for High Speed train would be around Khao Choeng Thian or so - not far from existing Chonburi railway station. 

For the case of Pataya station, it will be on 600 Rai (96 Hectares) of CP All estate around Ban Huay Kwang between Pataya Floating Market Halt and Suan Nong Nuch Halt. CP All has given the reason that the areas around existing railway stations have a lot of owners which have given CP All really hard time for TOD. 200 Rai (32 Hetares) around Pataya railway station has a price at 10 Million Baht per rai (62.5 Million Baht per hectare) - effectively cost too much for CP All to do TOD. Furthermore, 25 rai of SRT Land at Sri racha is too little for CP All to do TOD. Such a movement by CP All is going to vex the landowners like Central Pattana (CPN) whuch has Central Pataya at 2-3 km from existing Pataya railway station. 

For the case of Chachoengsao station of high speed train, the area is on the paddy fields in Bang Toei township, Wang Takian township, Tha Khai township, Tha Kwan township, Ban Mai township and Bang Phai township ... and now paddy filed near Suwinthawongse road (Hihgway 304) is now 6 million Baht per rai (37.5 million Baht per Hectare). 

For the case of Thai - China High Speed train, the EIA Clearance from Ban Phachi to Nakhon Ratchasima has been approved - effectively allow the contract signing the contract in 2021 along with the purchases of 6 sets of EMUs along with ECTS-2 signals and technology transfers with a hope to be done in December 2025 ... and there are 2815 Rai (450.5 Hectares) land expropriation at 5,637.85 million Baht including Ayutthaya station (500 Rai / 80 Hectares), Saraburi station, Pakchong station and nakon Ratchasima station. 

At least, Thai - China Railway has the settled station positions including:
1. Bangsue Central - 3rd floor 
2. Donmueang - going to connect with red line commuter station of Donmueang with the area cover existing Donmueang station. 
3. Ayutthaya - about 200 - 300 meter from existing station and cover existing Ayutthaya station 
4. Saraburi station is on 97 rai (15.52 hectares) near Klong Priaw reservior on Royal Irrigation Dept - 3 km east of existing Saraburi station. The station is at Saraburi bypass road (Hihgway 362) near Robinson Saraburi. There will be TOD on 3000 rai (480 Hectares) of land around Saraburi station. 
5. Pakchong station is on 500 rai (80 Hectares) on Treasury land from Army Oridinance - 5 km east of existing Pakchong railway station in downtown Pakchong town. There will be TOD on 3000 rai (480 Hectares) of land around Pakchong station. 
6. Nakhon Ratchasima at existing railway station on 200 rai (32 hectares) of existing railway land - need to demolish the old station building dated back to 24 June 1955. and the station will function as intercity railway station. There will be TOD on 3000 rai (480 Hectares) of land around Nakhon Ratchasima station. 








ซีพี รื้อแนวรถไฟไฮสปีด ย้ายสถานี ต่อจิ๊กซอว์เมืองใหม่


ทำเล EEC บูมสวนเศรษฐกิจ ที่ดินแนวรถไฟความเร็วสูงเชื่อม 3 สนามบินราคาพุ่งไม่หยุด กระทบค่าเวนคืนอัพเท่าตัว จาก 3.5 พันล้าน เป็น 8 พันล้าน




www.prachachat.net




รฟท.จ่อชงบอร์ดอีอีซี ของบ 3.1 พันล. ลุยไฮสปีดเชื่อม 3 สนามบิน
https://www.facebook.com/TransportDailynews/posts/2750227495198751


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## Unknow2

This is exactly why I said SRT should put a phrase "moving station location is not allowed, but adding more station is allowed" in the contract. Now CP is going to move Pattaya station from the population center to their own plot of land 10km+ from the city. Now, it is not so convenient to travel from BKK city center to Pattaya city center.

Isn't building Pattaya station and add new station 10km south of Pattaya station, in the middle of CP's land, a more sensible solution?


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## Wisarut

Unknow2 said:


> This is exactly why I said SRT should put a phrase "moving station location is not allowed, but adding more station is allowed" in the contract. Now CP is going to move Pattaya station from the population center to their own plot of land 10km+ from the city. Now, it is not so convenient to travel from BKK city center to Pattaya city center.
> 
> Isn't building Pattaya station and add new station 10km south of Pattaya station, in the middle of CP's land, a more sensible solution?


If SRT Board reject such station moves, CP All will have no choice but to add stations on their own estates at Ban Huay Kwang or so.


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## Unknow2

Wisarut said:


> If SRT Board reject such station moves, CP All will have no choice but to add stations on their own estates at Ban Huay Kwang or so.


If CP really wants to move the station, I doubt if they (SRT board) will have a guts to reject CP demands.

Adding extra station is a much more sensible approach. Pattaya station is also a transfer point for Pattaya monorail project. Lets hope its all but a CP ruse to force landlord around Pattaya station to surrender their plot of land to CP at lower price. I'm more than welcome if CP is going to add new station in their plot of land and develop a beautiful plan city there. But not moving Pattaya station.


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## Wisarut

Unknow2 said:


> If CP really wants to move the station, I doubt if they (SRT board) will have a guts to reject CP demands.
> 
> Adding extra station is a much more sensible approach. Pattaya station is also a transfer point for Pattaya monorail project. Lets hope its all but a CP ruse to force landlord around Pattaya station to surrender their plot of land to CP at lower price. I'm more than welcome if CP is going to add new station in their plot of land and develop a beautiful plan city there. But not moving Pattaya station.


Agree, since so many Thai nettizens have shown strong objections on such a movement by CP All ... and ask for extra stations as a compromise.


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## Wisarut

On the issue of Natha Cargo station - the main cargo transfer station of Thai - China Railway (3 km South of existing Nong Khai station) since Thai - China Railway has made a clear point that it must be high speed passenger railways, so all cargo trains of Lao - China Railway have to be transferred to existing Thai cargo trains to Laem Chabang Deep Sea Port. Thai Railway is going to grant the 50-year concession for electrifying the line from Nong Khai to Laem Chabang Deep Sea Port to serve the transfer of cargo trains to and from Lao - China railway.

Natha Cargo station will be on the western side of existing Natha Railway station with the following details:
1. six tracks on the yard (probably 3 tracks of meter gauge lines and 3 tracks of Standard gauge lines for Lao - China Railway with the distance of at least 1200 meters with RMG cranes on the railway tracks to transfer container boxes just like SRTO yard at Laem Chabang Deep Sea Port. 
2. Container yard for cross border services, 
3. Container yard for domestic services including rice, tapioca, para rubber products from factories in Udonthani, Nong Khai and Buengkarn 

4. Container yard for emptied container boxes
5. EXIM product clearance yard
6. Custom office
7. Container X-Ray System to detect any illegal and human trafficking in the container boxes. 

There will be Natha Locomotice Depot and Stabling yard for major repairs of High Speed train along with the apartments for those railway officers to take some rest before resuming their jobs. 
There will be the new Friendship Bridge across Mekhong exclusively for railway service with single track for meter gauge line and double track for standard gauge line.




__ https://www.facebook.com/Thailand.Infra/posts/1061909740914171


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## Wisarut

CRRC and KMITL, Jointed Chinese Thai Training, High-Speed Train Technology 2020 @ KMITL Engineering School.
Each year, 5 to 10 students from the Rail Transportation Program, Mechanical Engineering Department, KMITL Engineering School participate the training at CRRC Co. Ltd. China and also co-teaching by company experts.
Looking forward to these global opportunities including this pathway, Apply to KMITL Engineering School. 





Facebook







www.facebook.com


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## Wisarut

CP All making a clear point that they have full right to move station positions as they please. After all, the allocation of land around existing stations are too small to please CP All while the landowners around existing stations have spun the land prices well above the Treasury Dept Prices. 

First to be move is Pataya station for High Speed train which will be moved to Ban Huay Kwang (about 13 km South of existing Pataya railway station - between Pataya Floating Market and Suan Nong Nut park) which CP All had already has 600 Rai of land (96 Hectares) around that station. Next is Chonburi station, and Chachoengsao station which is going to move to Don Srinon rather than the paddy fields near Chachoengsao Stadium (1.5 km North of existing Chachoengsao Junction). 

The section from Suvannabhum to U-Tapao is going to be transferred to CP All in August 2021 to be under construction in October 2021 to be ready for service in 2026. Any delay would be heavy fines. The section from Phayathai to Donmueang will be transferred in October 2023 - but need to deal with 267 cases of those who encroach the railway land. 

However, such a change on station positions require the consent and approval from EEC Board and SRT. SRT ansd EEC Board have told CP All that CP All better come up with their own EIA on the new station positions if they insist to make such a change. SRT is going to make a press conference on the issues of the changes on station position on 4 November 2020.









'คณิศ'ย้ำกลุ่มซี.พี.มีสิทธิขยับสถานีรถไฟความเร็วสูงฯ


คณิศแย้มกรณีกลุ่มซี.พี. จะขอขยับสถานีของโครงการรถไฟความเร็วสูงเชื่อม 3 สนามบิน เป็นสิทธิตามสัญญา RFP แต่ต้องได้รับอนุมัติจาก รฟท.ก่อน




www.thaipost.net


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## Pritian

Progress Bullet Train (350 km/h) Jakarta-Bandung (Indonesia)


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## thebeatlesalways123

best highspeed train thailand in southeast asia, the longest 232 km, while indonesia 142 km, good job thailand


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## maptaphut

Wisarut said:


> Agree, since so many Thai nettizens have shown strong objections on such a movement by CP All ... and ask for extra stations as a compromise.


In Pattaya we need two stations: one in central Pattaya and one in the Jomtien-area, (Floatingmarket/Huay-Kwang).
Pattaya is a big destination and should be a big Market for the New line.


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## Wisarut

maptaphut said:


> In Pattaya we need two stations: one in central Pattaya and one in the Jomtien-area, (Floatingmarket/Huay-Kwang).
> Pattaya is a big destination and should be a big Market for the New line.


That's the compromise which many Thai nettizens are asking from CP All.


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## Wisarut

thebeatlesalways123 said:


> best highspeed train thailand in southeast asia, the longest 232 km, while indonesia 142 km, good job thailand


the distance from Bangsue central to downtown Khorat city (Nakhon Ratchasima) IS 253 km! Next is Nakhon Ratchasima to Nong Khai with the distance of 354 km though.


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## Wisarut

Thai - China High Speed train to connect with Lao - China Railway which are to be opened in December 2021 vs. High Speed train connecting three airports: which one will be the first to be done?

For the case of Thai - China High Speed train, the total price tag of 431,759 Million Baht is the main reason for Thai government to cut this project into 2 phases: Phase one from Bangsue Central to Nakhon Ratchasima with total distance of 253 km and a price tag of 179,412 Million Baht financed by Government Bond to allow using Thai contractors as many as possible while Chinese government is handling the design, the construction control, supplying the system and EMUs while training Thai railway men to handle this High Speed train.
Now, the first 3.5 km permanent way from Klang Dong to Pang Asok is done by Highway Dept in September 2020.
Next is the 11 km from Sikiw to Kudjik which is 42% done while the rest are waiting for signing the contracts and the revised EIA on Bangsue Central - Ban Phachi with EHIA at Ayutthaya station. 
There is a silver lining that the contract for 6 sets of Fuxing High Speed train of eight car formation (totally 48 carriages) + ECTS-2 Signal and training of Thai railway men to handle both rolling stocks and track maintenance with the price tag of 50,633 Million Baht has been signed. 

For the case of High Speed train connecting three airports with the distance of 220 km and a price tag of 224,544 Million Baht, the project has to be postpones since CP All never satisfied with station positions due to rising land speculation around the railway stations which would be high speed train station. Better construct high speed train stations on the estate of CP All rather than the closed proximity to the Cities that please speculators. 

Let's see when High Speed train connecting three airports will be started








รถไฟไทย-จีน VS ไฮสปีด CP สายไหนจะสร้างเสร็จก่อนกัน


คอลัมน์ ชั้น 5 ประชาชาติ ประเสริฐ จารึก สถานการณ์การเมือง น่าจะเข้าทำนองคำโบร่ำโบราณที่ว่า “ศัตรูผูกอาฆาตมันง่าย จะให้ปรองดองกันมันยาก” แต่ไม่ว่า




www.prachachat.net





Thai High Speed train: Raising the standard for travelling


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## Wisarut

Minister Saksiam is going to sign 5 contracts of Thai - China High Speed train with the total price tag of 40,275.33 Million Baht on 18 November 2020 after getting EIA clearance including:

1. Contract 3-2 : Muak Lek tunnel and Lam Takhong tunnel with total distance of 12.23 km - Naowarat Phatthanakarn PCL won the bidding with the price tag of 4,279.33 Million Baht 

2. Contract 3-3 : Bundai Mah - Lamtakhong including Pak Chong station of High Speed train with total distance of 21.6 km - Krungthon Engineering Co.Ltd. the bidding with the price tag of 9,838 Million Baht 

3. Contract 3-4 : Lamtakhong - Sikiw and Kudjik - Khok Kruad with total distance of 37.45 km - BPNP consortium won the bidding with the price tag of 9,848 Million Baht 

4. Contract 3-5 : Khok Kruad - Nakhon Ratchasima including Nakhon Ratchasima station of High Speed train with total distance of 12.38 km - SPTK consortium won the bidding with the price tag of 7,750 Million Baht 

5. Contract 4-7 : Saraburi - Kaeng Khoi including Saraburi station of High Speed train with total distance of 12.99 km - Civil Engineering Co.Ltd. won the bidding with the price tag of 8,560 Million Baht 

On the other hand, the following contracts still pending for contract signings: 

1. Contract 3-1 : Kaeng Khoi - Klang Dong, Pang Asoke - Bundai Mah with total distance of 30.21 km - Italian Thai Development PCL - China Railway Engineering Corporation (ITD - CREC No. 10 Joint Venture) won the bidding at the price of price at 9,349 Million Baht by disqualifying Nabha Construction - Prasarana Malaysia Berhad (member of BPNP Consortium) who offer the lower price at 9,330 Million Baht. This dispute is pending to the assessment by Comptroller General Dept. If it is not going to be settled in the peaceful mean, expect the court battle.

2. Contract 4-2: Donmueang - Nava Nakhon with total distance of 21.8 km - Sino Hydro - Sahakarn Engineering Co.Ltd., Thiphakorn Co.Ltd. won the bidding with the price tag of 8,626.8 Million Baht 


3. Contract 4-3: Nava Nakhon - Ban Pho with total distance of 23 km - China State Construction Engineering Corporation, Naowarat Phatthanakarn PCL, AS Associate (1964) Co.Ltd. won the bidding with the price tag of 11,525.36 Million Baht 


4. Contract 4-5: Ban Pho - Phra Kaew with total distance of 13.3 km including Ayutthya station of High Speed train - Italian Thai Development PCL won the bidding with the price tag of 9,913 Million Baht - Pending for using the old EIA which limit the construction NOT to go beyond the Railway land of SRT.

5 Contract 4-6 Phra Kaew - Saraburi with total distance of 31.6 km - Unique Engineering and Construction PCL, won the bidding with the price tag of 9,429 Million Baht 









รฟท.ดีเดย์ 18 พ.ย.เซ็น 5 สัญญาไฮสปีด “ไทย-จีน” ก่อสร้างโยธาวงเงินกว่า 4 หมื่นล้าน


รฟท.เตรียมเซ็นงานโยธารถไฟไทย-จีน จำนวน 5 สัญญา วงเงินรวมกว่า 4 หมื่นล้าน 18 พ.ย.นี้ คาดทยอยออก NTP ให้ผู้รับเหมาเริ่มงานได้หลังปีใหม่ พร้อมเร่งทบทวน EIA ช่วงบางซื่อ-บ้านภาชี หลังได้ข้อยุติสถานีอยุธยา




mgronline.com












ศักดิ์สยาม เซ็น 5 สัญญารวดรถไฟไทย-จีน 4 หมื่นล้าน 18 พ.ย.


ดีเดย์ 18 พ.ย. “รถไฟ” ได้ฤกษ์เซ็นงานโยธา 5 สัญญา ไฮสปีดไทย-จีน “กทม.-โคราช” กว่า 4 หมื่นล้าน ”ศักดิ์สยาม” เป็นประธาน นายนิรุฒ มณีพันธ์




www.prachachat.net









รฟท.เตรียมเซ็นสัญญาก่อสร้างงานโยธาไฮสปีดไทย-จีน 5 สัญญา 18


นายนิรุฒ มณีพันธ์ ผู้ว่าการการรถไฟแห่งประเทศไทย (รฟท.) เปิดเผยว่า ในวันที่ 18 พ.ย.นี้ นายศักดิ์สยาม ชิดชอบ รมว.คมนาคม จะเป็นประธานพิธีลงนามสัญญาก่อสร้างงานโยธา โครงการความร่วมมือระหว่างรัฐบาลแห่งราชอาณาจักรไทยและรัฐบาลแห่งสาธารณรัฐประชาชนจีน



www.ryt9.com












“รฟท.” จ่อเซ็น 5 สัญญารวด ก่อสร้างโยธาไฮสปีดไทย-จีน 4 หมื่นลบ. ดีเดย์ 18 พ.ย.นี้!


“รฟท.” จ่อเซ็น 5 สัญญารวด ก่อสร้างโยธาไฮสปีดไทย-จีน 4 หมื่นลบ. ดีเดย์ 18 พ.ย.นี้!




www.kaohoon.com












เค้กก้อนใหญ่ ‘รถไฟไทย-จีน’ ผลประโยชน์ข้า...ใครอย่าแตะ


เค้กก้อนใหญ่ ‘รถไฟไทย-จีน’ ผลประโยชน์ข้า...ใครอย่าแตะ : คอลัมน์ห้ามเขียน หนังสือพิมพ์ฐานเศรษฐกิจ ฉบับที่ 3,626 หน้า 19-20 วันที่ 12 - 14 พ.ย. 2563 โดย...พรานบุญ




www.thansettakij.com


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## Wisarut

Clear Point from CP All on the issue of stations of High-Speed train connecting three airports with the distance of 220 km and price tag of 224,544 Million Baht and 50 year concession: Three stations must be moved to other precincts due to the rising land speculation that drive the land prices around the existing railway stations (Chachoengsao Junction, Pataya and Sri Racha) have added the intolerable cost for land expropriation not to mention about the 25 Rai (4 Hectares) of SRT land at Sri Racha offered to CP which is too small to satisfy CP All. 

For the case of Chachoengsao, it is likely to move to either Don Sri Nont or another place in the Southern bank of Bang Pakong river. For the case of Pataya, CP estate at Ban Huay Kwang station has been under serious consideration due to CP estate is 600 Rai (96 Hectares)

Therefore, CP All has to give a hard lesson to those land speculators by moving the station position on CP Own estates as the measures to wither those speculators down to their bones despite of the risks of creating beetroot stations even CP All is going to implement feeder systems to connect Pataya city, Sri Racha city, Chonburi city, and Chachoengsao city with planned High Speed Train station not to mention about delays of opening the line due to the need for EIA on CP All estates. This is going to delay the schedule to be opened in 2026 for the first section and 2028 for the full system.

For the creditors, the ones that offer cheapest deal (lowest interest rates on loan which are to be pay back all in 30 years) would be the first priority creditor, so Japan Bank for International Cooperation (JBIC) and China Development Bank (CDB) would be the first creditors which CP All have in their mind.

CP All is going to handle Airport Link by 24 October 2021 by paying the right to operate at 10671 Million Baht to SRT.

the request for land expropriation budget from 3570 Million Baht to 8000 Million Baht still has no conclusion yet since the land price assessment is not done yet. 

https://www.prachachat.net/property/news-555268


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## Wisarut

The 4.3 km elevated track of High-Speed train with 132 pillars on Sikiw - Kudjik section is 100% while the overall 11 km of Sikiw - Kudjik section with a price tag of 3,115 Million Baht is 43% done. The delay has a lot to do with Covid-19 epidemic causing labor shortage. Next is to install the concrete segments of the elevated tracks to be done in 2021. On the other hand, the other 6.7 km at grade section still working on soil recompacting and the signal installation will be started in the late 2021 though. The construction of track maintenance center, the changes on existing railway tracks and infrastructure along with the installation of drainage will work on the earnest. 

Saksiam (Minister of Transport) is going to sign the other 5 contracts for Thai - China High Speed train with total price tag of 40,275 Million Baht on 23 November 2020 since he was busy on 18 November 2020.

1. Contract 3-2 : Muak Lek tunnel and Lam Takhong tunnel with total distance of 12.23 km - Naowarat Phatthanakarn PCL won the bidding with the price tag of 4,279.33 Million Baht

2. Contract 3-3 : Bundai Mah - Lamtakhong including Pak Chong station of High-Speed train with total distance of 21.6 km - Krungthon Engineering Co.Ltd. the bidding with the price tag of 9,838 Million Baht

3. Contract 3-4 : Lamtakhong - Sikiw and Kudjik - Khok Kruad with total distance of 37.45 km - BPNP consortium won the bidding with the price tag of 9,848 Million Baht

4. Contract 3-5 : Khok Kruad - Nakhon Ratchasima including Nakhon Ratchasima station of High-Speed train with total distance of 12.38 km - SPTK consortium won the bidding with the price tag of 7,750 Million Baht

5. Contract 4-7 : Saraburi - Kaeng Khoi including Saraburi station of High-Speed train with total distance of 12.99 km - Civil Engineering Co.Ltd. won the bidding with the price tag of 8,560 Million Baht

The other 7 contracts still waiting for clearance including

1. Contract 3-1 : Kaeng Khoi - Klang Dong, Pang Asoke - Bundai Mah with total distance of 30.21 km - Italian Thai Development PCL - China Railway Engineering Corporation (ITD - CREC No. 10 Joint Venture) won the bidding at the price of price at 9,349 Million Baht by disqualifying Nabha Construction - Prasarana Malaysia Berhad (member of BPNP Consortium) who offer the lower price at 9,330 Million Baht. This dispute is pending to the assessment by Comptroller General Dept. If it is not going to be settled in the peaceful mean, expect the court battle.

2. Contract 4-2: Donmueang - Nava Nakhon with total distance of 21.8 km - Sino Hydro - Sahakarn Engineering Co.Ltd., Thiphakorn Co.Ltd. won the bidding with the price tag of 8,626.8 Million Baht

3. Contract 4-3: Nava Nakhon - Ban Pho with total distance of 23 km - China State Construction Engineering Corporation, Naowarat Phatthanakarn PCL, AS Associate (1964) Co.Ltd. won the bidding with the price tag of 11,525.36 Million Baht

4. Contract 4-5: Ban Pho - Phra Kaew with total distance of 13.3 km including Ayutthya station of High-Speed train - Italian Thai Development PCL won the bidding with the price tag of 9,913 Million Baht - Pending for using the old EIA which limit the construction NOT to go beyond the Railway land of SRT.

5. Contract 4-6 Phra Kaew - Saraburi with total distance of 31.6 km - Unique Engineering and Construction PCL, won the bidding with the price tag of 9,429 Million Baht

6. Bangsue Central - Donmueang with total distance of 15.21 km including the construction of Donmueang station - still waiting for CP All to come up with the design since the section will have to share the same space as Airport Link connecting three Airport.

7. Maintenance Center at Chiang Rak Noy - still under scrutiny even though Italian Thai Development PCL has won the bidding.

Hope that the line will be opened in Late 2027 though.




__ https://www.facebook.com/TransportDailynews/posts/2769645053256995


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## Wisarut

We have learnt that the contract signing has been postponed to 26 November 2020.

There was inspection on the progress of Thai - China High Speed train construction at Soong Noen, the planned tunnel across the high speed train route, along with the permanent way at Klang Dong - Pan Asok section and whole route from Bangsue Central to Nong Khai on 23 - 24 November 2020 to find the solution for that level crossing (case to point is level crossing at Ban Thanon Na Dee in Sikiw district of Nakhon Ratchasima) by Transportation Committee of the Parliament along with SRT Governor, Provincial Governors, Representatives from Irrigation Dept, Highways Dept, Rural Highway Dept.
รฟท,กมธ.คมนาคม ติดตามความคืบหน้าไฮสปีดไทย-จีน เส้นทาง กรุงเทพ-หนองคาย 



__ https://www.facebook.com/pr.railway/posts/4081748528506654


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## Wisarut

Rising cost for land expropriation by 22 % due to High Speed train connecting three airports and High Speed train to Khorat and Nong Khai along with Infrastructure removal and EIA on Ayutthaya station is going to drag Thai - China High Speed train to be opened in 2026 and High Speed train connecting three airport to be opened in 2028.
รถไฟไทย-จีนเคลียร์ปมไม่จบ ราคาที่ดิน 3 จังหวัด พุ่งดักหน้า 22%

Deputy Director of Dept of Rail Transport has come to inspect the first 3.5 km section from Klang Dong - Pang Asok - need road hump for better drain of rain water to the gutter rather than staying in the potholes near the permanent way which has been transferred to SRT on 25 November 2020.

For the case of 10.5 km of Sikiw to Kudjik, it is 42% done. The 5 contracts will be signed on 26 November 2020 by Minister of Transport though.
"พิเชฐ"ลงพื้นที่ตรวจงานก่อสร้างรถไฟไทย-จีน 3.5 กม. หลังก่อสร้างเสร็จแต่เกิดน้ำท่วมขัง 
‘ทางหลวงฯ’ ส่งมอบงานแล้ว! ไฮสปีดไทย-จีน เฟสแรก 3.5 กม. ‘คมนาคม’ ถือฤกษ์ 26 พ.ย. 63 พร้อมเซ็น 5 สัญญา 4 หมื่นล้าน



__ https://www.facebook.com/DRT.OfficialFanpage/posts/823037588473187


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## Wisarut

Going to finish the first phase double tracking with total distance of about 700 km by the end of 2022 even though it is likely to be done in 2023 while realizing 14 lines of mass transit system (MRT - BTS Skytrain - Red line commuter networks - Monorails) along with High Speed train connecting Three Airports and Thai - China High Speed train by the end of 2028 








“คมนาคม” เผยปี 65 รถไฟทางคู่เสร็จ 5 สาย-เปิดเอกชนร่วมใช้ราง ลดต้นทุนโลจิสติกส์


“คมนาคม” เผยปี 65 รถไฟทางคู่ก่อสร้างเสร็จอีก 5 สาย ระยะทางกว่า 700 กม. เร่งก่อสร้างรถไฟความเร็วสูง 2 สาย เตรียมเปิดเอกชนร่วมใช้ราง ตั้งเป้าเพิ่มสัดส่วนขนส่งทางรางเป็น 30%




mgronline.com


----------



## Wisarut

5 Contracts have been signed at 1:30 PM in Ministry of Transportation Club for Thai - China High Speed train with total distance of 101.15 km with the investment of 40,275 Million Baht

Here the list of 5 contracts:
Contract 3-2 Railway line with total distance of 12.23 km including Muak Lek tunnel (DK 130+841.25 - DK 138+820),and Lam Takhong Tunnel (DK 186+800 - DK 191+050) with total tunnel section of 8 km 3.27 km permanent way at grade, and 0.96 km elevated track with the price tag of 4,279,309,390 Baht and Nawarat Patanakarn Public Company Limited is a contractor.

Contract 3-3 at Bundai Mah and Lam Takhong (DK 160+700 - DK 186+800) by Thai Engineering and Industry Co.Ltd. with total distance of 26.10 km including 1.15 km permanent way at grade, and 24.95 km elevated track and Pakchong station for High Speed train with Platforms to connect with existing railway line which are on double tracking project. The total distance of 9,837,997,397.39 Baht

Contract 3-4 Lam Takhong - Sikiw (DK 191+050 - DK 214+000 ) and Kudjik - Khok Kruad (DK 225+000 - DK 239+500) by Italian Thai Development PCL with total distance of 37.45 km including 14.12 km permanent way at grade, and 23.33 km elevated track with the price tag of 9,848,000,000 Baht

Contract 3-5 Khok Kruad - Nakhon Ratchasima (DK 239+500 - DK 251+881.22) by SPTK Joint Venture [Nabha Construction Co.Ltd, Sekartar SDN BHD and BINA Puri SDN BHD from Malaysia] with total distance of 12.38 km including 7.85 km permanent way at grade, and 4.53 km elevated track within Khorat city and Nakhon Ratchasima station for High Speed train to be integrated with new station building of Nakhon Ratchasima along with elevated double track with total price tag of 7,750,000,000 Baht

Contract 4-7 Saraburi - Kaeng Khoi (DK 106+016.75 - DK + 119+008.50) by Civil Engineering PCL with 12.99 km of elevated track and the new Saraburi High Speed train station near Robinson Saraburi and the new platform to make a connection with existing double track section with total price tag of 8,560,000,000 Baht

Hope that this High Speed train line will be opened for service in December 2025.

However, the following 7 contracts with total price tag of 66,000 Baht need serious clearance before signing

Contract 3-1 Kaeng Khoi - Klang Dong (DK 119+008.50 - DK 130+841.25 and DK 138+820 - DK 150+500 ) and Pang Asok - Bundai Mah (DK 154+000 - DK 160+700) with total distance of 30.21 km with the price tag of 11,000 Million Baht due to the dispute between ITD-CREC NO.10 JV who had been picked by SRT at 9,348 Million Baht vs. BPNP (Nabha Construction Co.Ltd, - BINA Puri SDN BHD from Malaysia) who offered the lower price at 9,330 Million Baht but being rejected by SRT. The case still pending to Anti Corruption and Administration Court. Let's see how the Anti Corruption and Supreme Administration Court Judges will decide on this bitter dispute.

Contract 4-1 Bangsue Central - Donmueang including Donmueang station for High Speed train with total distance of 15.21 km with the price tag of 10,000 Million Baht. Need CP All to submit the design since CP All is going to run High Speed train connecting three airport, so the design for proper traffic are in need.

Contract 4-2 Donmueang - Nava Nakhon with total distance of 21.80 km with the price tag of 8,600 Million Baht.

Contract 4-3 Nava Nakhon - Ban Pho with total distance of 23 km with the price tag of 11,000 Million Baht.

Contract 4-4 Chiang Rak Noy Maintenance Center and Traffic Control Center at km 56 with the price tag of 6,500 Million Bah - need SRT Board to give the final decision even though Italian Thai Development PCL has won the bidding.

Contract 4-5 Ban Pho - Phra Kaew with total distance of 13.30 km with the price tag of 9,900 Million Baht due to issue on Ayutthaya station building for High Speed train at the same precinct as existing Ayutthay railway station which need EIA Clearance to keep within Railway land strip, not going further due to the strong objection from Fine Arts Dept and the status of Ayutthaya city Island as World Heritage that requires stringent controls on the construction. The only alternative is to construct the station at 3-10 km away from Ayutthaya city Island just like the case of Luang Phrabang railway station of Lao - China railway which is totally unacceptable.

Contract 4-6 Phra Kaew - Ban Phachi - Saraburi with total distance of 31.60 km with the price tag of 9,400 Million Baht

Hope that the six contracts other than contract 4-1 could be signed in January 2021 while the last contract (contract 4-1) could find the settlement in February 2021.









จรดปลายปากกา! รฟท. MOU เอกชน เดินหน้าไฮสปีดไทย-จีน 5 สัญญา ระยะทาง 101 กม. มูลค่า 4 หมื่นล้าน คาดเปิดให้บริการปี 68


ชื่นมื่น! รฟท. MOU เอกชน เดินหน้าไฮสปีดไทย-จีน 5 สัญญา ระยะทาง 101 กม. มูลค่า 4 หมื่นล้าน บูมการขนส่งทางราง เชื่อม สปป.ลาว-จีน ก้าวสู่ฮับขนส่ง-โลจิสติกส์ในภูมิภาค คาดแล้วเสร็จพร้อมเปิดให้บริการปี 68นายชยธรรม์ พรหมศร ปลัดกระทรวงคมนาคม เปิดเผยว่า วันนี




www.trjournalnews.com












'ไฮสปีด'ไทย-จีน เฟส 1 ลงนามต่ออีก5 สัญญากว่า 115 กม.


มาครึ่งทางแล้ว!! รถไฟไฮสปีดไทย-จีน เฟส 1 กรุงเทพฯ-โคราช ได้ไปต่ออีก 5 สัญญา รวมแล้วกว่า 115 กม. เดินเครื่องก่อสร้าง 3 ปี คาดลงนามอีก 6 สัญญาเกือบ 6 หมื่นล้าน ม.ค.64 ส่วนอีก 1 สัญญาจะเจรจากับไฮสปีด 3 สนามบินจบ ก.พ.นี้ มั่นใจเปิดให้บริการปลายปี 68 คาดให้รัฐวิสาหกิจเข้ามาเดินรถ




www.dailynews.co.th












‘รถไฟไทย-จีน’ เลื่อน กำหนดเปิด เป็นปี 68 วันนี้ลงนามผู้รับเหมาเพิ่ม 5 สัญญา


“รถไฟไทย-จีน” เลื่อน กำหนดเปิด เป็นปี 68 วันนี้ลงนามผู้รับเหมาเพิ่ม 5 สัญญา มูลค่า 4 หมื่นล้าน วาดฝันเปิดวิ่งดันประเทศไทยเป็นฮับคมนาคม



www.thebangkokinsight.com












รฟท. เดินหน้ารถไฟความเร็วสูงไทย-จีน ลงนามก่อสร้างงานโยธาอีก 5 สัญญา คาดให้บริการได้ในปี 2568






www.thailandplus.tv












รฟท.เซ็น 5 สัญญา ไฮสปีดไทย-จีน กว่า 4 หมื่นล้านบาท


รฟท.เดินหน้ารถไฟความเร็วสูงไทย-จีน ลงนามก่อสร้างงานโยธาอีก 5 สัญญา วงเงิน 40,275 ล้านบาท ตั้งเป้าเปิดให้บริการปี 2568…




tna.mcot.net












ยื่นปปช.สอบรถไฟฟ้าไทย-จีน


ยื่น ปปช. สอบกรมบัญชีกลาง เหตุตีความเข้าข้างเอกชน ชิงการประมูลรถไฟไทย-จีน




www.posttoday.com












(เพิ่มเติม) ITD-NWR-CIVIL เซ็นสัญญาสร้างไฮสปีดเทรนไทย-จีนตั้งเป้าเปิดบริการปี


นายชยธรรม์ พรหมศร ปลัดกระทรวงคมนาคม เป็นประธานในพิธีลงนามในบันทึกข้อตกลงคุณธรรม และสัญญาการก่อสร้างโครงการความร่วมมือระหว่างรัฐบาลแห่งราชอาณาจักรไทยและรัฐบาลแห่งสาธารณรัฐประชาชนจีนในการพัฒนาระบบรถไฟความเร็วสูงเพื่อเชื่อมโยงภูมิภาค ช่วงกรุงเทพมหานคร



www.ryt9.com












ร.ฟ.ท.ลงนามสร้างไฮสปีดไทย - จีน 5 สัญญา ตั้งเป้าเปิดให้บริการ 2568


ร.ฟ.ท. เดินหน้ารถไฟความเร็วสูงไทย-จีน ลงนามก่อสร้างงานโยธาอีก 5 สัญญา มูลค่ากว่า 4 หมื่นล้าน เตรียมเร่งเครื่องลงนามเพิ่มอีก 7 สัญญา หวังแล้วเสร็จเปิดให้บริการ 2568




www.bangkokbiznews.com







__ https://www.facebook.com/ThaiRailNews/posts/3479520925463208





__ https://www.facebook.com/atirat.ratanasate/posts/3592726804168715


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## Wisarut

Appleich said:


> *Summary of all contracts as of November 2020:*
> Completed
> 
> Contract 1 Klang Dong - Pang Asok (3.50 km; THB 425 million) by Department of Highway
> Contract 2.1 Detailed design services (THB 1,707 million) by Government of the People's Republic of China
> Under construction
> 
> Contract 2-1 Sikhiu - Kut Chik (11.00 km; THB 3,115 million) by Civil Engineering Ltd.
> Contract signed
> 
> Contract 3-2 Muak Lek - Lam Takhong tunnels (12.23 km; THB 4,279 million) by Nawarat Patanakan Plc.
> Contract 3-3 Bandai Ma - Lam Takhong and Pak Chong Station (21.60 km; THB 9,838 million) by Thai Engineer and Industry Ltd.
> Contract 3-4 Lam Takhong - Sikhiu and Kut Chik - Khok Kruat (37.45 km; THB 9,848 million) by Italian-Thai Development Plc.
> Contract 3-5 Khok Kruat - Nakhon Ratchasima and Nakhon Ratchasima Station (12.38 km; THB 7,750 million) by SPTK Joint Venture
> Contract 4-7 Saraburi - Kaeng Khoi and Saraburi Station (12.99 km; THB 8,560 million) by Civil Engineering Ltd.
> Contract 2.2 Construction supervision consultant services (THB 3,500 million) by Government of the People's Republic of China
> Contract 2.3 Rail and system work, rolling-stock procurement and technology transfer services (THB 50,633 million) by China Railway International Ltd. and China Railway Design Corp.
> Environmental impact assessment (EIA) clearance process
> 
> Contract 4-2 Don Mueang - Navanakorn (21.80 km; THB 8,626 million) by SST Joint Venture
> Contract 4-3 Navanakorn - Ban Pho (23.00 km; THB 11,525 million) by CAN Joint Venture
> Contract 4-5 Ban Pho - Phra Kaeo and Ayutthaya Station (13.30 km; THB 9,913 million) by Italian-Thai Development Plc.
> Contract 4-6 Phra Kaeo - Saraburi (31.60 km; THB 9,429 million) by Unique Engineering & Construction Plc.
> Under tender process
> 
> Contract 3-1 Kaeng Khoi - Klang Dong and Pang Asok - Bandai Ma (30.21 km; THB 9,330 million) by Thai Engineering Ltd.
> Contract 4-4 Chiang Rak Noi Maintenance Depot (THB 6,514 million) by Italian-Thai Development Plc.
> Under design process
> 
> Contract 4-1 Bang Sue (Km.11) - Don Mueang (15.21 km.)
> Source: Prachachat on November 25, 2020 (in Thai) & Matichon on November 26, 2020 (in Thai)



Contract 1 Klang Dong - Pang Asok (3.50 km; THB 425 million) by Department of Highway => Section from DK DK.150+500 - DK.154+000 [Done]
Contract 2-1 Sikhiu - Kut Chik (11.00 km; THB 3,115 million) by Civil Engineering Ltd. => Section from DK.214+000 - DK.225+000 [Under Construction]
Contract 2.2 Construction supervision consultant services (THB 3,500 million) by Government of the People's Republic of China
Contract 2.3 Rail and system work, rolling-stock procurement and technology transfer services (THB 50,633 million) by China Railway International Ltd. and China Railway Design Corp.
*Contract 3-1* Kaeng Khoi - Klang Dong and Pang Asok - Bandai Ma (DK 154+000 - DK 160+700) (30.21 km; THB 9,330 million) => Kaeng Khoi - Klang Dong section from (DK 119+008.50 - DK 130+841.25 and DK 138+820 - DK 150+500 ) along with Pang Asok - Bandai Ma (DK 154+000 - DK 160+700) still pending due to the issue with both Anti Corruption and Comptroller General due to the bidding dispute of * ITD-CREC NO.10 JV who gives a bidding at 9,348 Million Baht vs. BPNP [BINA Puri SDN BHD. - Napha Construction Co. Ltd who gives a bidding at 9,330 Million Baht]* which may need to settle in Supreme Administration Court
Contract 3-2 Muak Lek - Lam Takhong tunnels (12.23 km; 4,279,309,390 Baht) by Nawarat Patanakan Plc. [Contract Signed] => Muak Lek tunnel section at DK 130+841.25 - DK 138+820 and Lam Takhong tunnel section at DK 186+800 - DK 191+050
Contract 3-3 Bandai Ma - Lam Takhong and Pak Chong Station (21.60 km; 9,837,997,397.39 Baht) by Thai Engineer and Industry Ltd. [Contract Signed] => Section from DK 160+700 - DK 186+800
Contract 3-4 Lam Takhong - Sikhiu and Kut Chik - Khok Kruat (37.45 km; 9,848,000,000 Baht) by Italian-Thai Development Plc. [Contract Signed] => Lam Takhong - Sikhiu Section from DK 191+050 - DK 214+000 and Kut Chik - Khok Kruat section from DK 225+000 - DK 239+500
Contract 3-5 Khok Kruat - Nakhon Ratchasima and Nakhon Ratchasima Station (12.38 km; 7,750,000,000 Baht) by SPTK Joint Venture [Contract Signed] => Napha Construction - Timsekartar SDN BHD - BINA Puri SDN BHD. to handle the section from DK 239+500 - DK 251+881.22
Contract 4-1 Bang Sue (Km.11) - Don Mueang (15.21 km.) => Need CP All who holds the concession of High Speed train connecting three Airports to come up with the design - hope to get it done in February 2021.
Contract 4-2 Don Mueang - Navanakorn (21.80 km; THB 8,626 million) by SST Joint Venture => under tender process with a hope to settle in January 2021.
Contract 4-3 Navanakorn - Ban Pho (23.00 km; THB 11,525 million) by CAN Joint Venture => under tender process with a hope to settle in January 2021.
Contract 4-4 Chiang Rak Noi Maintenance Depot (THB 6,514 million) by Italian-Thai Development Plc. (ITD PCL0 => under tender process, still waiting for the final decision from SRT Board to award the bidding to ITD PCL with a hope to settle in January 2021.
Contract 4-5 Ban Pho - Phra Kaeo and Ayutthaya Station (13.30 km; THB 9,913 million) by Italian-Thai Development Plc. => under tender process and need to compile with Fine Arts Dept. who has a lot to say with EIA since the station is just within 1 km from Ayutthaya city Island with World Heritage Status with a hope to settle in January 2021
Contract 4-6 Phra Kaeo - Saraburi (31.60 km; THB 9,429 million) by Unique Engineering & Construction Plc => Section from DK 74+412.91 - DK.106+016.75 under tender process with a hope to settle in January 2021.
Contract 4-7 Saraburi - Kaeng Khoi and Saraburi Station (12.99 km; 8,560,000,000 Baht) by Civil Engineering Ltd. [Contract Signed] => to handle the section from DK 106+016.75 - DK + 119+008.50
REF: รายงานผลการปฏิบัติตามมาตรการป้องกันและแก้ไขผลกระทบสิ่งแวดล้อม และมาตรการติดตามตรวจสอบผลกระทบสิ่งแวดล้อม บทที่ 1 โครงการรถไฟความเร็วสูง สายกรุงเทพฯ-นครราชสีมา (ช่วงชุมทางบ้านภาชี-นครราชสีมา)


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## Wisarut

บจ.บิน่า พูรี่ เอสดีเอ็น บีเอชดี (Bina Puri Sdn Bhd (BPSB)) ร่วมทุนจนได้งานรถไฟความเร็วสูงในเมืองไทยในราคา 1036 ล้านริงกิต บริษัทนี้มาลงทุนเมืองไทยแต่ปี 2003 และได้งานถนนเข้าสนามบินสุวรรณภูมิด้วย









Bina Puri JV secures RM1.04 bil HSR contract in Thailand


BANGKOK (Nov 26): Bina Puri Holdings Bhd (Bina Puri), through its joint-venture SPTK Joint Venture Co Ltd (SPTK JV), today signed a contract package with State Railway of Thailand (SRT) on the high-speed railway (HSR) project to connect Bangkok to Nakhon Ratchasima.Bina Puri’s wholly-owned...




www.theedgemarkets.com







Wisarut said:


> สัญญาที่ 3-5 งานโยธาสำหรับช่วงโคกกรวด-นครราชสีมา (DK 239+500 - DK 251+881.22) ดำเนินการโดย บริษัท กิจการร่วมค้า เอสพีทีเค จำกัด (ซึ่งประกอบด้วย บริษัท นภาก่อสร้าง จำกัด (NPA Construction Co Ltd) บริษัท ทิมเซคาร์ตาร์ เอสดีเอ็น บีเอชดีจำกัด (Tim Sekata Sdn Bhd) และบริษัท บิน่า พูรี่ เอสดีเอ็น บีเอชดี จำกัด (Bina Puri Sdn Bhd (BPSB) ซึ่งเป็นบริษัทจากประเทศมาเลเซีย) ซึ่งมีจุดเด่นคือ มีงานก่อสร้างทางรถไฟระยะทางรวม 12.38 กิโลเมตร ซึ่งประกอบด้วย งานก่อสร้างคันทางระดับดิน 7.85 กิโลเมตร ทางลอยฟ้า 4.53 กิโลเมตร และ อาคารสถานีนครราชสีมา มูลค่ารวม 7,750,000,000 บาท
> 
> กลุ่มกิจการร่วมค้าSPTK ประกอบด้วย บจ.นภาก่อสร้าง เป็นธุรกิจรับเหมามีประสบการณ์งานก่อสร้างโครงสร้างพื้นฐานด้านคมนาคมของภาครัฐ เป็นรับเหมาในเครือบ จ.กำแพงเพชรวิวัฒน์ก่อสร้าง เช่น ถนน สะพาน ทางลอด งานระบบป้องกันน้ำท่วม ผลงานสำคัญ เช่น มอเตอร์เวย์สายบางใหญ่-กาญจนบุรี ก่อสร้างทางแยกต่างระดับจุดตัด ก่อสร้างถนนสาย 314-ลาดกระบัง
> 
> ส่วน บจ.ทิมเซคาร์ตาร์ เอสดีเอ็น บีเอชดี เป็นรับเหมาจากประเทศมาเลเซีย ก่อสร้างงานโครงการรถไฟฟ้ายกระดับ สถานี ถนน สะพาน ของรัฐ รัฐวิสาหกิจและเอกชน ผลงานสำคัญ เช่น ก่อสร้าง The Ampang Package A Line Extension Project และโครงการ Nilai Interchange
> 
> ด้าน บจ.บิน่า พูรี่ เอสดีเอ็น บีเอชดี เป็นบริษัทก่อสร้างที่มีความชำนาญ ในงานก่อสร้างทุกประเภท ผลงานสำคัญ เช่น โครงการก่อสร้าง The Ampang Package A Line Extension Project เป็นต้น


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## Wisarut

Decision of CP All to move High Speed train station in Chachoengsao, Chonburi, Sri Racha and Pataya have caused serious chaos on the planned feeding system including Pataya Monorail. Now, It seems that CP All has decided to settle Sri Racha High Speed train station to the existing 25 Rai (4 Hectares) of Railway land at Sri Racha probably due to the pressure from Japanese communities within Sri Racha city. However, We would like to see the proposed sites for Chacheongsao, Chonburi and Pataya station for High Speed train though 

CP ย้ายสถานีป่วนไฮสปีดเทรน กระทบเวนคืนที่ดิน-โมโนเรลพัทยา


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## Wisarut

Permanent Secretariat of MoT asking CP All to come up with their own exact alternative places for 3 high speed train stations for Chachoengsao, Sri Racha and Pataya as a part of High Speed train connecting three Airport along with the design for 15-km section for Bangsue Central - Donmueang (package 4-1 of Thai - China High Speed train) by the end of December 2020. According to TOR of High Speed train connecting three airports, the concession holder must take a full responsibilities on the tunnel part of missing link with the price tag of 3,200.86 Million Baht and 15-km Bangsue - Donmueang with the price tag of 4,009.81 Million Baht even though the actual construction on that section would be 10,000 Million Baht. At the time being, CP All has hinted that Chachoengsao would be on the Southern bank of Bang Pakong river opposite to downtown Chachoengsao city or even Don Sri Nont station while Pataya high speed train station will be at Ban Huay Kwang station on 600 Rai (96 Hectares) of CP All's estate which is in between Pataya Floating market and Nongnuch Park while Sri Racha station on 25 Rai (4 Hectares) of Railway land is too small to satisfy CP All. 








ซี.พี.อุบเงียบสถานีไฮสปีด คมนาคมสั่งแจ้งพิกัด ธ.ค.


ปลัดคมนาคมเดดไลน์ ซี.พี.ย้าย/ไม่ย้ายตำแหน่งใหม่ 3 สถานีไฮสปีด 3 สนามบิน เร่งเคลียร์จุดทับซ้อนรถไฟไทย-จีน “สถานีดอนเมือง” จะสร้างเองหรือไม่




www.prachachat.net


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## maptaphut

Wisarut said:


> Permanent Secretariat of MoT asking CP All to come up with their own exact alternative places for 3 high speed train stations for Chachoengsao, Sri Racha and Pataya as a part of High Speed train connecting three Airport along with the design for 15-km section for Bangsue Central - Donmueang (package 4-1 of Thai - China High Speed train) by the end of December 2020. According to TOR of High Speed train connecting three airports, the concession holder must take a full responsibilities on the tunnel part of missing link with the price tag of 3,200.86 Million Baht and 15-km Bangsue - Donmueang with the price tag of 4,009.81 Million Baht even though the actual construction on that section would be 10,000 Million Baht. At the time being, CP All has hinted that Chachoengsao would be on the Southern bank of Bang Pakong river opposite to downtown Chachoengsao city or even Don Sri Nont station while Pataya high speed train station will be at Ban Huay Kwang station on 600 Rai (96 Hectares) of CP All's estate which is in between Pataya Floating market and Nongnuch Park while Sri Racha station on 25 Rai (4 Hectares) of Railway land is too small to satisfy CP All.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ซี.พี.อุบเงียบสถานีไฮสปีด คมนาคมสั่งแจ้งพิกัด ธ.ค.
> 
> 
> ปลัดคมนาคมเดดไลน์ ซี.พี.ย้าย/ไม่ย้ายตำแหน่งใหม่ 3 สถานีไฮสปีด 3 สนามบิน เร่งเคลียร์จุดทับซ้อนรถไฟไทย-จีน “สถานีดอนเมือง” จะสร้างเองหรือไม่
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.prachachat.net


Sad to say, but Huay-Kwang is to far from Central Pattaya. Again , the Customer is the looser.


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## Wisarut

maptaphut said:


> Sad to say, but Huay-Kwang is to far from Central Pattaya. Again , the Customer is the looser.


The is the way CP All is giving the hard lesson to those land speculators around Pataya railway station including Central Patthana that if they refuse to sell the land in the way that please CP All, those speculators will be ruined.

Civil Engineering PCL is ready to construct High Speed train after getting the contracts for construct Thai - China High Speed train using civil work experts
in following sections

Contract 2-1: Sikiw - Kudjik (11 km) is now about 50% done.
Contract 4-7: Saraburi - Kaeng Khoi (12.99 km) including Saraburi High Speed train station building and track maintenance center while removing infrastructure with the price tag of 8560 Million Baht with the construction period of 1,080 days.

Civil Engineering PCL has constructed the concrete casting factory along with the concrete milling factory, and the concrete mixing factory in 
Saraburi which is 40 km from the construction site. 









ซีวิล ประกาศพร้อมพัฒนาโครงการรถไฟความเร็วสูง


‘ซีวิลเอนจีเนียริง’ ประกาศความพร้อมพัฒนาโครงการรถไฟความเร็วสูง ชูแนวคิด บริหารจัดการสมัยใหม่ ทีมบุคลากรและเทคโนโลยีก่อสร้าง ร่วมผลักดันไทยเป็นศูนย์กลางคมนาคมขนส่งและโลจิสติกส์ในภูมิภาคอาเซียน




www.thansettakij.com


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## Wisarut

CP All CEO has made a clear point that CP All is going to grab extension from U-Tapao International Airport to Rayong via Ban Chang. After all, Hihg Speed Train connecting three airports has been considered as the main engine of Economic Growth in EEC to rebuild the economic system of the country after the Covid-19 Depression. Therefore, serious consideration have to be taken. 

For the case of High Speed train connecting three airports (Donmueang - Suvanabhum - U-Tapao) with the price tag of 224,544 Million Baht which has 50-year contract signed on 24 October 2019 and CP All has set up High Speed train connecting three airports Co.Ltd. with registered capitals of 4,000 Million Baht in 2020, the company still waiting for land transfers along with detailed designs and capitalization which will be done in July 2021. All the land must be fully transferred or creditors will refuse to grant the loan for CP All. 

There will be three sections to be transferred which are now working with EEC Board: 
1. Phayathai - Suvanabhum (AKA Airport Link) which need to pay SRTET 10,671 million Baht to allow the transfers from SRTET to CP All in October 2021. After the transfer, CP All expect to spend myriad millions Baht for major upgrades to allow high speed train EMUs to run on airport link tracks without causing traffic troubles. However, the final assessment for the major upgrade of signals and structure of existing station buildings and track structure. At the time being, the plan for major upgrade of existing Airport Link would require major design by CP All's alliances. 

The biggest bone of contention on this section is Makkasan central develpment which require major detailed designs which takes at least 2 years to be done and make a public revealation and the other 2 years to finish the construction.
Makkasan Central development is not considered as new city since the land allocation at makkasan central is just 497 rai (79.52 hectares) which is considered as big station complex which takes 2 years to finish the design since the design for such a complex is a lot more difficult than construction. 

2. Suvannabhum - U-Tapao to get land transfers down in 15 - 24 months - Covid 19 has caused the difficulty to estimate the number of passengers from Suvannabhum and U-Tapao not to mention about U-Tapao development plan by BTSC Neverthless, CP All keep talking with EEC Authority and it would take 5 years of construction to be done which the Covid-19 epidemic has receded. However, 50-year concession requires the long term thinking. 

The biggest bones of contention are the station postions on this section othern that U-Tapao Airport Terminus. 
CP All has told the press that they have check the suitability, engineering, geographic, and demographic structure to pick as many passengers as possible. However some of existing railway station areas have become deteriorated too much or have too many strings attached (read: those raging land speculators, lang lords, real estate developers who spin the land prices out of control while causing other conflicts with CP All which can become bloody which could drag Godfathers of Eastern Seaboard as the partners of conflicts if necessary). The final decisions would never be revealed until the time is right. 

This is due to the fact that CP all is going to perform TOD on all high speed train stations, not just Makkasan central and Sri Racha on railway land. One of the interesting thing that CP All has no land banks in the hand despite of the news that CP All has the 600 rai of land (96 hectares) around Ban Huay Kwang station which is 13.2 km from existing Pataya railway station. CP All said that there will be no additional EIA despite of the fact CP All is pressing demands for land expropriationon the areas outside for allocated land which just got EIA approved to facilitate the construction. The construction of railway tracks takes a few years to be done. but the station construction and land development around the stations takes longer time to be done. Furthermore, the feeder systems have to be implemented. For the case of New City of Chachoengsao on the Southeastern bank of Bang Pakong river planned by the former CEO of CP All (father of current CP All CEO), it is not really considered as the new city since the area of plannned New City of Chachoengsao is much less 10000 Rai (1600 Hectares) which is the minimum criteria for "New City" status. The high speed train station in question just the main focal point for further city expansion instead - allowing the area around the station to meet with existing cities, just like the way to plant the seeds to see the seeds grow into the trees which can be grown into big trees or otherwise. Just let the infrastructure helps to realize development by itself. 

Creating new city requires a lot of developments which take decades to be done and it is a duty of the government to create "new City", not the private sector. 

3. Donmueang - Phyathai to get land transfers down in 27 - 48 months 

One sure thing for EMUs would be European standard but the supplier of rolling stocks can be Chinese, Japanese or European countries. 

At the time being, CP All and their alliances are working on detailed design, capitalization and the wait for land transfers in full to allow full construction without the unconnected sections which creditors would not tolerated.

Only after land transfer, the construction can be started to be done in 5 years and expect the investment about myriads million Baht including right to run Airport Link and construct according to progress. 

For the issue related to moving of station positions for TOD, CP All would NOT release details to public due to the raging land speculation by landlords real estate developers and land spectulator around the existing station buildings that add unnecessary extra cost for land expropriation. The change of station position would delay the projects for sure but the finalizations would not realized though. 

Neverthless, the TOD would not create the new cities for sure since a new city around station requires at least 10000 rai (1600 Hectares). So far. the land around stations and the land allocation for high speed train connecting three airports are well below 10000 rai (1600 Hectares). The planned stations can create a relatively smaller Smart cites to handle hundred thousand workers who are their passengers rather than the actual new cities. The retailers would follow the new stations but still have no clear plans but it is up to the feeder systems for each station. However, the clearer plan for retailers will be revealed once U-Tapao - Rayong extension has become a reality. Further development would be serious considered once the line has been extended to Trat. However, the firm development on the extension to Rayong have to be realized to attract domestic and international investors first. Now, the government has already invested on Laem chabang Deep Sea Port expansion, U-Tapao International Airport expansion while planning massive double tracking and New Line on eastern seaboard line to attract more investors. Government must work hand in hand with private sectors to give more confident to investors. 

High Speed train connecting three airports is the real heart of EEC and the serious bet of CP All and Government must work hand in hand with private sectors to realize this project. 
After all, High Speed train connecting three airports is the new infrastructure for the new economic system to catapult Thailand to 4.0 Era and increate the potential to Chachoengsao, Sri racha, Pataya, Rayong along the route for urban development and and become a part of Greater Bangkok. Still lots of works to be done including station and structure designs. After all, it takes 7-9 years to realize the first Skytrain and Subway line. High Speed train connecting three airports is a big challege but it will become the big pride when it is opened to connect those citties. Vision of the future indeed erven though it would take 10 - 15 years to become fruitful. 

CP All is going to ask the government to do the land exporpriation from Ban Chang to Rayong to allow the construction of 20-km extension from U-Tapao International Airport to Rayong with the price tag of 20,510 Million Baht to make EEC in full circuit. After realizing Rayong High Speed station, next on the line is the line to Chanthaburi and Trat so as to realize High Speed train from U Tapao to Trat with the distance of 190 km and a price tag of 122,238 Million Baht. This 190-km High Speed train from U Tapao to Trat will be 30-50 year PPP net cost. 

Furthermore, CP All said Goverment Need NEC for Northern region and SEC for Southern region to meet the need to China, our richer neighbors, India, Japanese and Uncle Sam since EEC alone is not enough. This will need Industry 4.0 to support such project and the need to become Global player into the level to attract big boys like Tesla and Google Inc to attract Google Cloud, Amazon to attact Amazon cloud by being the right place for them to help our SMEs. This is exactly the way Vietnam has attracted investors with a lot of working age people. CPTPP has nothing to do with this - need to create the base to become competitive point. After all, Government needs to keep those SMEs alive since they are the real tax payers but the government needs to force them to reform themselves in exchanges for helps. Similar things can be said to SMEs who are suppliers for CP All. 

This implication state about the massive expansion of high speed train networks to connect with High Speed train connecting three airports.

The way to keep economic going in 2021 - 2022 requires new economic engines to compensate tourism which has been damaged heavily by Covid-19 to the point that it would take at least 3 years if not a decade to get the real recovery. One of the drastic measurements to rebuild the economics by taking a controvery by allowing forigners to invest on real estate and the issue of Green Cards (Peremanent Resident status) to allow the rebuilding of economic engines for drive the new economic system including digital economy, digital education, Agriculture 4.0.
This will require the amendment of Immigration Act of BE2508 (1965) which dated back to the Cold War period. However, this concession would apply to the investors who need to invest at least 1 Million US Dollars, 1 Million GB Pounds, 1 Million Euros or 100 Million Japanese Yen with verified and proven financial resources along with consideration just like US Green Cards and Singaporean Green Cards. 

Further drastic reforms to realize the new economic system including digital economy, digital education, and Agriculture 4.0. One of the reforms is to reduce digital divide along with the access to computers and smart phones for all ages, not just for entertainment and social networks which are not adequte enough. Need computers in every house to realize both work from home and study from home along with SME from home as the lesson from Covid-19. Even children and senior citizens could be able to trade their products online from and they better learn to set up the companies from home. This is the way for realizing comeback stronger. Those children and senior citizens better learn more about internet and social network security to protect from their crimes as well. Artificial Intelligence (AI) for public health and other innovation will be realized.

Agriculture reforms are also in need 
1. Masterplan for drastic expansion of irrigation system nationwide to cover at least 6% of arable land of 120 million Rai (19.2 million Hectares) which requires long term investment just like the road construction.

2. new agricuture management system by both knowledgable SMEs and private sectors who really know about new kind of managment to realize agro-industry through service farming. This kind of new agricuture management system demand the serious reforms on existing local agricultural cooperatives to be able to become shareholders of the new companies to handle the new management for service farming and agro-industry. However, the government need the revision to cooperative regulations to allow such a thing in addition to the government incentives to PTT, SCB, CP All, to come up with such new management. Landscape desgn on arable areas to ge the right products from suitable land to please local farmers also in need to give an incentive to participate in this project as the way to come up with guaranteed sustaible revenue insurant for all 5000 exiosting cooperatives. 

Year 2021 will have injected money to heal from Covid-19, so Thailand has to spend money in very smart way to keep the country pass through economic hard time. SMEs must be helped to make them pass through economic hard time or the failed SMEs would create a lot of trouble ahead. The third quarter of 2020 has shown some economic recovery sign from the second quarter of 2020 but expect economic recession in the 4th quarter of 2020 due to the loss of tourist business due to covid 19. 

So, year 2020 will be minus 6% GDP growth while economic growth in 2021-2 acccording to IMF will allow economic to be back to almost the same level as 2019 or better. However, we will see whether IMF prediction can be realized, especially the export. If there is pandemic that cause the real Great Depression worldwide, some exports will be hurt. 

Those retailers of CP All in tourist spots are the ones in troubles while Telecom sector of CP All is stablized even though the demands for roaming and international SIM cards by tourists have been reduced but the rising demands for data exchanges and internet broadbands to allow work and study from home along with the setup of digital workplaces since the days of lockdown in April 2020 are the ones that help to offset the loss of tourist demands. Those agriculture arms of CP All still not suffer from Covid-19 Depression yet. 

This lockdown has become the real agent for drastic changes that force both economic systems and industries to go online, social networks have become social commerce. Furthermore, office has to become facilitate areas for cooperation, not the real working area to allow officers to come to the office just once a week or once a month. Private sectors have to readjust despite of the worries. Those who fail to readjust will have the cost reduced in the unpleasant ways along with all other exhausive measures to force such readjustment as fast as possible while some industries take time for such readjustment. 

Need economic stimulation to help SMEs - Covid is the great crisis that needs enormous budget to do so. If we failed to bring economicto pas through this turbulent, political instablity due to the lact of consumption due to Covid-19 ensues. After all, SMEs would become customers of this High Speed train connecting Three Airports so they are deserved such helps. 









ชงขยายไฮสปีด EEC ยาวถึงระยอง "ศุภชัย" ดันเครื่องยนต์เศรษฐกิจตัวใหม่


“บิ๊ก ซี.พี.” แนะพลิกวิกฤตโควิดรีฟอร์มประเทศ คืนความแข็งแกร่ง ศก.ไทย ปลดล็อกต่างชาติลงทุน อสังหาริมทรัพย์ “เครื่องยนต์ใหม่”




www.prachachat.net












เปิดใจ “ศุภชัย เจียรวนนท์” ไฮสปีด EEC คือการเดิมพันประเทศ


สัมภาษณ์พิเศษ หลัง “เครือเจริญโภคภัณฑ์” หรือ ซี.พี. จับมือพันธมิตรไทยและต่างชาติ ตั้งบริษัท รถไฟความเร็วสูงสายตะวันออกเชื่อมสามสนามบิน จำกัด




www.prachachat.net


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## Wisarut

Progress on 11-km SIkiw - Kudjik section of Thai - China High Speed Train with the price tag of 3,114 Million Baht: 44% done.
Details: 
6.7 km at Grade section: Soil conditioning almost done - ready to lay the top layer after finishing the foundation and making the layers of permanent way including the installation of Geo Membrane and sand just like Klang Dong - Pang Asok section. 
4.2 km elevated section : All the Holes have been dug, some of concrete reinforced pillars have been cast, ready for erecting the track on the pillars.
Two sets of launchers have been installed including the Northern Launcher for installing the concrete track and Southern launcher is about to move to assemble the concrete track
Khok Sa Ad Light maintenance center : Civil work on this maintenance center with passing loop yard has shown the real sign of progress 

Those 5 contractors who will start their works in early 2021:
Contract 3-2: Muak Lek tunnel and Lam Takhong tunnel by Naowarat Phatthanakarn PCL with 8 km of tunnel sections from 12.23 km works 

Contract 3-3: 26.10 km Bandai Mah - Lam Takhong by Thai Engineering and Industry Co.Ltd.

Contract 3-4: 37.45 km Lam Takhong - Sikiw by Italian Thai Development PCL. 
Contract 3-5: 12.38 km Khok Kruad - Nakhon Ratchasima including Nakhon Ratchasima station by SPTK (Nabha Contruction and Ti, Sekjatar SDN BHD from Malaysia and Bina Pri SDN BHD from Malaysia 

Contract 4-7: 12.99 km elevated track on Saraburi - Kaeng Khoi section including Saraburi station by Civil Engineering PCL, the same one as the one who run contract 2. 



__ https://www.facebook.com/Thailand.Infra/posts/1093218334449978


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## Wisarut

Need at least 4 more months for Further EIA on Ayutthaya High Speed train station on the existing Ayutthaya railway station due to the pressure from World Heritage Subcommittee even though both SRT and World Heritage Subcommittee agree to use the old design that passed EIA clearance as the main design. The delays are due to the further details on the ancient sites around the station as requested by World Heritage Subcommittee.

This EIA issue is going to delay the opening of Thai - China High Speed train from Bang Sue Grand Central to Nakhon Ratchasima with 14 construction contracts and the price tag for civil works of 117,914.08 Million Baht from the goal of 2025 since it delays the signing of 5 contracts from the section from Donmueang to Ban Phachi.








“รถไฟไทย-จีน” ลุ้นอนุฯ มรดกโลกเคาะศึกษาแบบสถานีอยุธยา


รฟท.ลุ้นมติคณะอนุฯ คุ้มครองมรดกโลกวันนี้ ศึกษาผลกระทบมรดกโลก แบบสถานีอยุธยา “รถไฟไทย-จีน” ควบคู่ไปพร้อมก่อสร้าง หวังลงนามผู้รับจ้างอีก 5 สัญญา เร่งรัดก่อสร้าง หวั่นรอศึกษาจบต้องเลื่อนเปิดหวูดหลุดแผนปี 68




mgronline.com





SRT is negotiating with CP All on the issue of 20 km U-Tapao - Rayong extension of High Speed train connecting three airports with the price tag of 20,510 Million Baht since CP All has shown strong interests to realize this 20 km extension.

20 km U-Tapao - Rayong extension of High Speed train connecting three airports with the price tag of 20,510 Million Baht consists of 1,837 million Baht land expropriation from Ban Chang to Rayong, 471 million Baht consultant fee, 13,845 million Baht civil work, the installation of ECTS-2 signal and electrification of 2,025 Million Baht and 2,332 Million Baht for new sets of EMUs. 

After realizing 20 km extension to Rayong, there is further extension to the following stations:

Phase 2 Rayong - Klaeng with the price tag of 40,951 million Baht

Phase 3 Rayong - Klaeng - Chanthaburi with the price tag of 71,013 million Baht

Phase 4 Rayong - Klaeng - Chanthaburi - Trat with the price tag of 101,728 million Baht

Investment will be PPP net cost with 30-50 Year concession

20 km U-Tapao - Rayong extension of High Speed train connecting three airports starts at the eastern section of U-Tapao airport passing Ban Chang raiwlay station to Rayong station on Highway 3574 (Rayong - Ban Khai) - 3 km from Koh Kloy intersection. 

Klaeng station will be 2 km from Klaeng intersection on Highway 344 (Chonburi - Klaeng) 

Further extension to Chathaburi will pass Na Yai Arm, and Tha Mai to reach Chanthaburi at Khao Rai Ya intersection, passing Mueang district, Makham, Klung to Khao Saming before reaching Trat terminus opposite to PEA on Sukhumvit road - 2 km from Trat intersection. The total distance from U-Tapao to Trat will be 190 km. 

The reason why the extension to Rayong would not pass Maptaphut due to the issue of EHIA, so it would better to go along the railway line to Ban Chang before heading to Highway 36 and end up at 3 km from Koh Kloy intersection rather than Central Festival Rayong but need EIA to deal with this U-Tapao - Rayong first. 









รถไฟเจรจากลุ่ม CP ขยายไฮสปีดระยอง 2 หมื่นล้าน


“การรถไฟฯ” เจรจา “ซี.พี.” ลงทุนไฮสปีดอีอีซี “อู่ตะเภา-ระยอง” ระยะทาง 20 กม. วงเงิน 2 หมื่นล้าน เผยสัญญาเปิดทางเอกชนรายเดิม เดินหน้าตามกระบวนการ PPP




www.prachachat.net


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## daeng_jal

I though the Chinese & CP all won't be sharing tracks?


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## Wisarut

daeng_jal said:


> I though the Chinese & CP all won't be sharing tracks?


Well, it is a costly affair to construct the lines that share the same space with different maximum speed


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## Wisarut

Sikiw - Soong Noen with total distance of 11 km


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## daeng_jal

Wisarut said:


> Well, it is a costly affair to construct the lines that share the same space with different maximum speed


So would they be sharing or not?


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## Wisarut

daeng_jal said:


> So would they be sharing or not?


Let's see how the section has been actually implemented.


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## Wisarut

Afte SPTK Consortium (Sino-Hydro, Sahakarn Wisavakorn Co., Ltd. and Tipakorn Co.Ltd.) had withdrawn after winning Thai - China High Speed train contract 4-2 (Donmueang - Navanakhon - 21.80 km) at 8,626.8 Million Baht since the fluctuation of construction cost, SRT Board has considered picking the second place like Unique Engineering and Construction PCL who offers the price at 10,000 Million Baht have been considered as the contractor despite of the higher price. 

Furthermore SRT has considered the advertising and commercial development on 12 red line commuter stations (other than Bang Sue Grand central) to get more revenue to pay back the Japanese loan. 









จับตา เคาะ "ยูนิค" คว้าเค้กหมื่นล้านไฮสปีดไทย-จีนช่วง "ดอนเมือง-นวนคร"


รถไฟประชุมบอร์ดพรุ่งนี้ (22 เม.ย.64) วาระพิจารณาเพียบ จับตาเคาะ "ยูนิค" สร้างไฮสปีดไทย-จีน สัญญา 4-2 ช่วงดอนเมือง-นวนคร ชงขยายกรอบเงินก่อสร้างสายสีแดง




www.prachachat.net


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## Wisarut

The real estate developer (A West property Co.Ltd.) of the Grand Bang Saen Village at Bang Saen district of Chonburi gone mad when the High-Speed train connecting three airports has effectively split the Grand Bang Saen village at Huay Kapi Soi 17 Huay Kapi township, Bang Saen district of Chonburi into 2 separate sections. to solve the issue of sharp curve at Saen Suk Halt. A West Property demands 100 million Baht compensation after the expropriation of 2 rai (800 square wah) out of 30 rai of land to create the land strip which effectively splitting the village into 2 sections and render the split section into blind spots which greatly depreciate the development prices to the point that the company has to return the deposits to those customers but the company got 40 million Baht compensation, so they have to appeal for more compensation. 
A West property Co.Ltd. has claimed that the land has the average development cost of 10000 Baht per square wah (effectively cost 8 million Baht) along with all other related cost and the company has stipulated the land price for this village at 30000 Baht per square Wah ... and some of 147 Houses at 3 million Baht per unit within the land strip has to be demolished. 

However, the compensation is just 26000 Baht per square Wah along with the compensation for demolishing houses are too low to become acceptable. Furthermore, the High-Speed train land strip has effectively cut the accesses to Sukhumvit road and New Khao Larm Tat road - effectively rendered the land around that village into blind spot, so more compensation is in need.

At least 3 suburb villages in Chacheongsao need to ask for compensation - especially the villages within New Chacheongsao station and maintenance center along with a condominium and apartment in Chonburi within the high-speed train land strip. 

Furthermore, the high-speed train land strip section within U-Tapao and Rayong has hit Electrolux factory - need the real and immediate compensation for moving to other places. 

These are the main reasons why some landowners refuse the settlement with SRT on the land expropriation issue. SRT has to make a deposit in the bank to allow the compensation payment through Bank transfers. 
บ้านจัดสรรโวย ไฮสปีดผ่าซีก ขอชดเชย100ล.


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## Wisarut

After SPTK Consortium (Sino-Hydro, Sahakarn Wisavakorn Co., Ltd. and Tipakorn Co.Ltd.) had withdrawn after winning Thai - China High Speed train contract 4-2 (Donmueang - Navanakhon - 21.80 km) at 8,626.8 Million Baht since the fluctuation of construction cost, SRT Board has considered picking the second place like Unique Engineering and Construction PCL who offers the price at 10,000 Million Baht have been considered as the contractor despite of the higher price.

Unique Engineering and Construction PCL said the company can the biding cost by 9 Million Baht to 10,570 Million Baht contract - closed to the mean price of 10,917 Million Baht since the hike of steel has made further reduction of bidding impossible. Worse is that the new bidding will need to hike the mean price by at least 30 million Baht to about 11,000 million Baht due to the hike of steel and other raw materials and the way to win the bidding by offering impossibly low prices and made the winner unable to sign the contract when the prices of raw materials has fluctuated. Let's see how Railway Board will response during the next meeting on 29 April 2021.

There are 4 more contracts of High Speed train from Bang Sue Grand central to Nakhon Ratchasima which still not signed yet:

Contract 4-2 (Donmueang - Navanakhon - 21.80 km with the mean price of the mean price of 10,917 Million Baht ) - still waiting for Railway Board Decision
Contract 3-1 (Kaeng Khoi - Klang Dong, Pang Asok - Bundai Mah with the mean price of 11,386 Million Baht - ITD and 10th Bureau of China Railway with the mean price of has call a bidding at 9,349 Million Baht but Comptroller General said the winner should be the Malaysian -Thai Consortium with the bidding at 9,340 Million Baht which Railway Board has disqualified that bidder. Need the court ruling for this case.
Contract 4-1 Bang Sue Grand Central - Donmuean 15.21 km at 15,000 Million Baht - almost reaching the settlement with CP All who are going to construct High Speed train connecting three airport. SRT men would have to deal with this job by itself to speed up the project and they will deduce the cost from High Speed train connecting three airport. Expect the construction can be started by the end of 2022 after clearing those slum dwellers and those infrastructure within Railway land.
Contract 4-5 Ban Pho - Phrakaew - 13.3 km with Italian Thai Development PCL as contractor with the bidding of 9,913 Million Baht . Still negotiation with Fine Arts Department on the issue of Ayutthaya station for High Speed train due to the status of Ayutthaya city as the World Heritage. So, the design must be in line with the existing ancient city. Furthermore, Governor of Ayutthaya and Mayor of Ayutthaya city are pressing the demands to be the at grade section with height of 7 meter to be able with deal with the Flood like the Great Flood of 2011. The alternative of rerouting as requested by Fine Art Department will cause at least 5-6 year delays which is totally unacceptable.
SRT is going to issue NTP (Notice to Proceed) to contractors of three sections which have already signed the contracts on 29 March 2021 in Mid 2021 since the contractors and SRT would have to make a mutual understanding on the details of construction for the sections they are going to handle. There contractors of three sections are:

Contract 4-3 : Nava Nakhon - Ban Pho - 23 km at 11,525 Million Baht by AS Associate Engineering (1964) - Naowarat Phatthana PCL - China State Construction Engineering Corporation Limited are the contractors
Contract 4-4 : Chiang Rak Noy Maintenance center and traffic control at 6,573 Million Baht - Italian Thai Development PCL is a contractor.
Contract 4-6 : Phra Kaew - Saraburi- 31.60 km at 9,428 Million Baht by Unique Engineering and Construction PCL a
ไฮสปีดยังติด4สัญญางานโยธา เร่งเคลียร์แบบช่วงทับซ้อน"ซีพี"

รถไฟ “ไทย-จีน” ยังติด 4 สัญญา ลุ้นบอร์ดรับราคายูนิค-เร่งเคลียร์สถานีอยุธยาและช่วงทับซ้อน “ซีพี”
รฟท.คาดได้ผู้ชนะประมูลรถไฟทางคู่สายเด่นชัย-เชียงของ,สายบ้านไผ่-นครพนม ก.ค.นี้ : อินโฟเควสท์


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## Wisarut

Very reasons for High Speed Train in Thailand at 250 kph : Cost Effective Matter! Furthermore, the space between Up track and Down track for the case of 350 kph max speed must be at least 5 meters and the 7000 meter curve radius for 350 kph max speed have to be fully observed so land expropriation out of railway tracks are absolutely necessary. Furthermore, ballasted tracks are forbidden for the case of 350 kph max speed. Furthermore, Subgrade width of Slab tracks for 350 kph max speed must be at least 13.6 meter wide and Subgrade thickness must be at least 2.70 meters Effective Area of the high speed trains of 350 kph need to be at least 100 sq.m. for a big tunnel containing double track and at least 70 sq.m. for each double tunnel of single track. Furthermore, the signal must be CTCS-L3 type for the 350 kph max speed. The wireless communication of CTCS-L3 type will have to be Single network interlaced coverage. The Subgrade Mast for power supply will have to be H-Beam, cannot use round concrete poles and levers of OCS must be Aluminum Alloy which are more expensive than Steel. Furthermore, the ticket prices for 350 kph max case must be 7 Baht per km => not just 2.30 - 3.75 Baht per km as in Mainland China. 



__ https://www.facebook.com/Thailand.Infra/posts/1180992439005900


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## Wisarut

Starting the first step of the construction of High Speed train connecting three Airport - CP All was hiring Italian Thai Development PCL which has been signed on 31 March 2021 to handle the construction with the funds of 3,603.728 Million Baht to work on the Early Work/Pre-NTP Work from 1 April 2021 to 31 August 2021 before issuing NTP (Notice to Proceed) which are to be started not later than 23 October 2021. 

The Pre NTP works are including: 
1. the Early work for contractors, the transportation of construction materials and workers, field offices, worker camps, the field civil work laboratory, the factory to cast and assemble the concrete tracks and concrete parts of high speed train, the EIA work, the safety works. 
2. the Baseline Design of High Speed train. 
3. the preparation of structure construction, access roads the field test and lab test, the work on support pillars, the special machines for assemble the main base structure, the Launching truss for assemble the main track structure 
4. Coordination for removing infrastructure. 








ซี.พี. นับหนึ่งไฮสปีด 3 สนามบิน เซ็นจ้าง "อิตาเลียนไทย" เปิดหน้าดิน 3.6 พันล้าน


"อิตาเลียนไทย" แจ้ง "ตลาดหลักทรัพย์" จับมือ "ซีพี" นับหนึ่งเตรียมงาน งานก่อสร้างไฮสปีดเชื่อม 3 สนามบิน ดอนเมือง-สุวรรณภูมิ-อู่ตะเภา วงเงิน 3.6 พันล้าน คาด




www.prachachat.net


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## Wisarut

Construction of Khok Sa-ad Maintenance Yard of Thai - China High Speed Railway


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## Wisarut

MoT trying to find the way to break the deadlock of Ayutthaya High Speed Train station by making a settlement with World Heritage Subcommittee on the following three issues


1. Constructing Ayutthaya High Speed train station as the underground station: MoT has given the answer to World Heritage Subcommittee that it is very hard to implement if not outright impossible since Ayutthaya city is flood prone area as they have seen during the Great Flood of 2011 and the drainage system for that underground High Speed train station would double or even triple the cost to implement that Section.


2. Rerouting to follow the bypass road: MoT has given the answer to World Heritage Subcommittee that this option is impossible to implement since all other contracts next to that Ayutthaya high speed train station have already been implemented, effectively impossible to change according to the whim of World Heritage Subcommittee. 

3. Move Ayutthaya station of High Speed train out of existing Ayutthaya station: MoT has given the answer to World Heritage Subcommittee that this option is possible to implemented but the idea of moving the station to Ban Mah station with the Northern end at Highway No. 32 (Asian Highway - Bang Pa In - Nakhon Sawan), very inconvenient to make a connection with Ayutthaya city island even though Ban Mah station is just a few kilometers north of the existing Ayutthaya Railway station, effectively create a beetroot station which is NOT good at all and it also destroys the TOD (Transportation Oriented Development) plan to make more money to clear the debts of High Speed train system. 

At the time being, MoT would ask Italian Thai Development PCL to construct the High Speed train tracks to make a connection until the issue of Ayutthaya High Speed train station have been settled down. 

So far, World Heritage Subcommittee seems to agree that Ayutthaya station of High Speed train should be implemented within existing Ayutthaya station yard but it has to be scaled down and narrower with traditional Thai architecture of Ayutthaya period to be more acceptable.



__ https://www.facebook.com/TransportDailynews/posts/2896951053859727


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## Wisarut

Progress on High Speed train connecting three airports (Donmueang - Suvannabhum - U-Tapao) with the distance of 220 km at 224,544 Million Baht :

1. CP All was hiring Italian Thai Development PCL which has been signed on 31 March 2021 to handle the construction with the funds of 3,603.728 Million Baht to work on the Early Work/Pre-NTP Work on that Suvannabhum - U-Tapao section from 1 April 2021 to 31 August 2021 before issuing NTP (Notice to Proceed).

The Pre NTP works are including:
1.1. the Early work for contractors, the transportation of construction materials and workers, field offices, worker camps, the field civil work laboratory, the factory to cast and assemble the concrete tracks and concrete parts of high speed train, the EIA work, the safety works.
1.2. the Baseline Design of High Speed train.
1.3. the preparation of structure construction, access roads the field test and lab test, the work on support pillars, the special machines for assemble the main base structure, the Launching truss for assemble the main track structure
1.4. Coordination for removing infrastructure. 

2. CP All is going to pay a cashier Check to SRT to purchase the whole Airport Link system at 10,671 Million Baht so as to start the service takeover on 25 October 2021.

3. NTP (Notice to Proceed) will be issued by 24 October 2021 so that the contractors hired by CP All are going to enter into construction site on 25 October 2021 which takes 5 years to be done. So far, CP All has not sent the request for extension due to the endless Covid-19 epidemic yet. 

4. After the cabinet has increased the budget for land expropriation from 3,570 Million Baht to 5,740 Million Baht, Ministry of Finance is going to pay 607 Million Baht for land expropriation from Suvannabhum to U-Tapao as the first priority which is to be done before 24 October 2021 even though the real settlement have to be done in May - June 2021 first. The rest of land expropriation funds will be issued in Budget Year 2022.

5. for that Shared section with Thai - China High Speed trains from Bang Sue Grand Central to Donmueang with the distance of 15 km, CP All is going to ask SRT to handle that section since it would take time for land transfer to CP All in October 2023, too late for Thai - China High Speed train which is to be opened in 2024. This would require the amendment of 50-year concession contract along with the the area of working and the reduction of subsidies and the issue of construction

First Option is to let Chinese architects to design that shared section. If Chinese architects refuses to work, SRT would have to ask cabinet to add extra budget to design and construction. However, it needs cabinet resolution to deal with those issues related to design and construction Bang Sue Grand Central to Donmueang design and the amendment of contracts with CP All. This is very serious issue since the design blueprints must be done by July 2021 and the construction on that Bang Sue Grand Central to Donmueang must be started by the end of 2022. 










ซี.พี.ตอกเข็มไฮสปีด “สุวรรณภูมิ-อู่ตะเภา”


อัพเดตแผนก่อสร้างไฮสปีดเชื่อม 3 สนามบิน ร.ฟ.ท.ยัน ต.ค.นี้ส่งมอบพื้นที่กลุ่ม ซี.พี.ได้ตามแผน เผยอนุมัติให้เข้าพื้นที่เตรียมไซต์ก่อสร้างไปแล้ว




www.prachachat.net


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## Wisarut

Very reason why we need to construct Khok Sa Ad Light Maintenance Center which has been constructed by Civil Engineering Co.Ltd. as a part of Contract 2-1. Construction started in April 2019 whcih is to be doner in October 2020 but now it has to be extended and still delayed from the goal by 30%.

Khok Sa Ad Light Maintenance Center is a marshalling yard for High Speed and it has to handle the basic maintenance for High-Speed train EMUs and the storage for machines and instruments along with tools for track maintenance. It also functions for the EMU parking for emergencies. 

Khok Sa Ad Light Maintenance Center consists of 
1. Signaling Building 
2. 22 kV Sub Station 22 kV for power distribution 
3. Office Building 
4. Work Area Rail Garage 
5. Material Storage 
6. Work Area Oil Depot
7. Communication Tower
8. Three rest houses for railway workers.








__ https://www.facebook.com/Thailand.Infra/posts/1186758445095966


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## Wisarut

Starting the construction of Section 4-7 ofThai - China High Speed train from Saraburi - Kaeng Khoi with the distance of 12.99 km at 5 PM of 12 May 2021 in front of Wat Taling Chan, Taling Chan township, Mueang district of Saraburi.


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## Wisarut

Italian Thai Development PCL is starting the work of Thai - China High Speed train Section 3-4 at Lam Takhon - Sikiw, Kudjik - Khok Kruad with total distance of 37.45 km with total price tag of 9,848 million Baht with Section 2-1 (Sikiw - Kudjik) in between. Temporary office of ITD PCL is at Nong Nam Khun station in Sikiw district.



__ https://www.facebook.com/Thailand.Infra/posts/1190544924717318



SRT Board has hire NPSE Consortium (Napha Construction Co.Ltd. - Singsila Engineering Co.Ltd.) to handle the new locomotive repairing factory at Kaen Khoi at 1560 Million Baht (7% VAT included) to be done within 730 days after the land transfer. If there is no objection, the contract can be signed. This new Locomotive repairing factory is to handle the heavy repairs of the new SDA-3 locomotives and to relieve the burden of Bang Sue Locomotive Depot.

SRT Board still not approving Unique Engineering and Construction PCL to handle Contract 4-2 (Donmueang- Nava Nakhon - 21.8 km) at 10,500 Million Baht, slightly below the mean price of 10,917 Million Baht since it needs legal clearance that SPTK (Sino-Hydro, Sahakarn Engieering, Thipakorn) have decided Not to sign the contract at 8,626.8 Million Baht due to the price fluctuation that make the JV unable to secure the low prices of the raw materials.









บอร์ด รฟท.เคาะจ้างนภาฯ 1.5 พันล้านสร้างโรงซ่อมแก่งคอย เบรก “ยูนิค” รับสัญญา 4-2 รถไฟไทย-จีน


บอร์ด รฟท.เคาะจ้าง “กลุ่มนภาฯ” สร้างโรงซ่อมแก่งคอย 1.5 พันล้านบาท รองรับซ่อมหนักหัวจักร 20 คัน ยังเบรกเคาะ “ยูนิค” รับงานสัญญา 4-2 รถไฟไทย-จีน สั่งดูข้อกฎหมายเพิ่มเพื่อความรอบคอบ




mgronline.com


----------



## Wisarut

Contractors starting to construct the section of Thai - China High Speed train within Khorat city


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## Wisarut

Department of Transport has come up with 5 choices to deal with the issues of Ayutthaya High Speed train station to be submitted to World Heritage National Committee on World Heritage Protection Protocol on Monday 24 May 2021:

1. Ayutthaya station as underground station with underground track => Very hard to implement since Ayutthaya city has suffered from perennial flood with high risk of the station being flooded. Furthermore, the system to deal with flood around the station Yard would require extra budget to do so. 

2. Constructing the station and the route along the Highway 32 to avoid World Heritage area => impossible to implement since it would force the government to change the contracts of the under constructed sections to Ban Phachi and Bang Pa In which require New EIA => totally unacceptable. 

3. Constructing Ayutthaya station for High Speed train at either Ban Mah near Highway 32 or Klong Suan Ploo. => This option is possible to implement but this would cause inconvenience for changing the trains to feeder systems to reach Ayutthaya city Island - effectively cutting down the number of passengers which is very hard to accept. 

4. Constructing Ayutthaya station for High Speed train at the same precinct as the existing railway station with the exclusive city planning. => this one is a fine choice 
5. Let Italian Thai Development PCL (Contractor) to construct the track first before making the settlement on station position. Well, this choice is possible to implement but the dire consequence of such decision would fall into World Heritage National Committee on World Heritage Protection Protocol since it has effectively deprives the rights of local citizens to access High Speed train, effectively declaring war against the local people of Ayutthaya. 





__ https://www.facebook.com/DRT.OfficialFanpage/posts/931013804342231


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## Wisarut

CP All is going to invest 1700 Million Baht to improve Airport Link with the following settlements for Level of Service and Customer Satisfaction with SRTET in the following manners: 


Improve electric system including wireless communication system, signal for traffic control system to make the train runs in time, improvement of CCTV system for better security, the fire extinguishing system, and electric power system for EMUs and other facilities within EMUs, and other related issue. 
Improving railway stations including direction signs with public toilets, improving footpaths to stations and station facilities, adding more green space, and improvement of traffic around stations, the parking lots, better and more light around stations, more ventilator fans for stations have to be erected, more roofs and cover in the stations to protect passengers from burning hot Sun and heavy rain. 
Turning 4 luggage vans to become passenger carriages to handle at least 1000 more passengers an hour to cut down the waiting period during rush hours. 
 After the transfer of Airport Link on 24 October 2021, the old cards still in usable until the new cards have been issued. 
High Speed train connecting three airport require PP investment of 257,464 Million Baht (157,872 Million Baht by Government and 99,592 Million for Private sectors) to support EEC. 
Once this High Speed train connecting three airports are done while the development of U Tapao Airport will be finished, it will give economic benefit of 650,000 Million Baht with 16,000 jobs for construction and 100000 jobs of those related business within the first 5 years. Once concession is expired, it will become state properties. 
So far, the land clearance on that 170 km section from Suvannabhum to U-Tapao is 86% done with the land expropriation of 5,521 Rai (883.36 hectares) with the expectation to be done in September 2021.

The contractor is starting the early works such as the construction of access road and temporary along with site office, labor camp, and concrete yard. Hope that High Speed train connecting with 3 airports will be opened in 2025.



__ https://www.facebook.com/eecwecan/posts/1112365649246639



สั่งปรับปรุงแอร์พอร์ตลิงก์ เตรียมงบ 1.7 พันล้าน รองรับรถไฟฟ้าสามสนามบิน
https://www.eeco.or.th/th/news/347
คืบหน้ารถไฟไฮสปีด เชื่อมอีอีซี เคลียร์พื้นที่ก่อสร้าง 86%


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## Wisarut

Now, Fine Art Department has made a clear point on the issue of Ayutthaya Station of High Speed Train in the following Manners:

Fine Art Department Prefers the following Choices:
1. Ayutthaya station as underground station with underground track. *They prefer to spend 10,000 Million Baht More and they can live with 5 year delays along with extra budget for flood controls!*

2. Constructing the station and the route along the Highway 32 to avoid World Heritage area => impossible to implement since it would force the government to change the contracts of the under constructed sections to Ban Phachi and Bang Pa In which require New EIA. *After all, they can live with 7 year delays along with extra budget for EIA along with the construction of elevated track along Asian Highway (Highway 32) and the new place for Ayutthaya station which cannot be interchanged with existing Railway system!*

The other 3 choices which are more rational to implement have been rejected by Fine Art Department due to the following reasons:

*1. All three choices requires 20-meter elevated tracks on the railway land which is totally Unacceptable in the eyes of Fine Arts Department.

2. The preferred Choices are more pleasing to Fine Arts Department despite of at least 10000 Million cost overrun and 5-7 years delays due to New EIA. *

There will be 180-day studies to solve this issue of Ayutthaya station before submitting to the National Committee of World Heritage Protocol before submitting to the UNESCO Committee on World Heritage next year.

Note: It is just a matter of time Governor of Ayutthaya and even Ayutthaya people or even Minister of Transportation and Prime Minister would have to file the lawsuit against Fine Art Department for showing such *defiance and insubordination* against the government policies while causing such an unnecessary Delay of High Speed train Project.

เล็ง 2 แนวทางรถไฟเร็วสูงเลี่ยงกระทบมรดกโลกอยุธยา
View attachment 1543683



> 1. Ayutthaya station as underground station with underground track => Very hard to implement since Ayutthaya city has suffered from perennial flood with high risk of the station being flooded. Furthermore, the system to deal with flood around the station Yard would require extra budget to do so.
> 2. Constructing the station and the route along the Highway 32 to avoid World Heritage area => impossible to implement since it would force the government to change the contracts of the under constructed sections to Ban Phachi and Bang Pa In which require New EIA => totally unacceptable since it requires New EIA and new land expropriation - delaying project by 5-6 years.
> 
> 3. Constructing Ayutthaya station for High Speed train at either Ban Mah near Highway 32 or Klong Suan Ploo. => This option is possible to implement but this would cause inconvenience for changing the trains to feeder systems to reach Ayutthaya city Island - effectively cutting down the number of passengers which is very hard to accept.
> 4. Constructing Ayutthaya station for High Speed train at the same precinct as the existing railway station with the exclusive city planning. => this one is a fine choice
> 5. Let Italian Thai Development PCL (Contractor) to construct the track first before making the settlement on station position. Well, this choice is possible to implement but the dire consequence of such decision would fall into World Heritage National Committee on World Heritage Protection Protocol since it has effectively deprives the rights of local citizens to access High Speed train, effectively declaring war against the local people of Ayutthaya.


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## kunming tiger

Appleich said:


> Actually, it’s the opposite from what you say. This is how Thailand protecting its national interest at best and avoid falling into debt traps. You can ask CCP and tell us why they didn’t let state companies to jointly invest in this HSR with Thai counterparts but rather preferred Thai gov to sign into huge debt with high interest rate and award all construction contracts to Chinese contractors in the first place. There might be several obstacle and delay along the way but Thailand doing HSR on its own is much better and wiser.


hindsight is the only real wisdom in the world. According to the reports coming out of Thailand the project is behind schedule , time is money therefore you are paying interest on the money borrowed to start construction the longer it takes to finish the more it will cost in the long term. HSR require large up front investment there is no cheap way to do it, as for debt traps the Chinese are built more HSR than the rest of the world combined and partly financed that by borrowing money from international institutions ho were concerned about lending money to them when it was in their interests to do so. The HSR system in China is often credited as one of the major factors driving the huge growth economic activity and a economic growth rate that is jaw dropping. They have established a model for economic development for developing nations to follow with whatever compromises are needed for their respective countries. Taking shortcuts like using ramps in urban areas create more problems with public opposition that doesn't justify the savings in cost. Awarding contracts to local companies is a good idea but if the project reaches a standstill due to the converge of factors we are seeing now how are those companies better off. As for awarding the construction work to state companies or Chinese SOE the reason is simple enough they build faster , cheaper and better that anyone else this would usually make them the first option not the last option. As for loans the Thai government could have secured finance from any number of international banks for the purpose, the terms and conditions are which are entirely a matter for them . We are not privy to that decision and if their ability to service then loans was an issue why did they green light the project. On a minor note the correction translation of 中国共产党 should be CPC. It is clearly visible on all official documentation including their passports etc As for contacting them on the matter concerning the issues you raised above as I am neither a citizen or resident of Thailand of the PRC and have no issues at stake it might be better for someone from Thailand to contact them , they might be willing to accommodate you. The premise is simple why would the Chinese insist on using Chinese labour, Chinese Technology, and Chinese Capital in building a project to world class level on budget and on schedule in most instances well it would interesting to see their reaction to that inquiry. 

As the old proverb says "小马过河 "


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## Appleich

Preach whatever you want. It's our money and this is how we want to spend it. You can tell this to other developing countries (especially in Africa). I'm sure they'd be more interested and willing to jump into these ideal schemes than Thailand.


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## Codename B

The Thai-Chinese Joint Committee proposed to China to invest 60% and Thailand 40% or 70% China and 30% Thailand, but from negotiations China is unwilling to co-invest with Thailand's proposal, because it's not useful to them.

The reason was that we do not give permission to China to develop both sides of the land around the train line, and the right on the land around train station like Laos gives, which is absurd, basically selling the country. Not even the current Gov is that stupid. 

This causes China not to ask for a joint venture resulting in Thailand to invest entirely on this HSR line on its own.

Thailand then was ready to be in charge of all constructions, except for bridge and tunneling work, where a company from China is required, because they have more expertise, or if a construction company from China will join in the construction, it must be joint venture with a Thai company. Let Thai companies be the leader.


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## Wisarut

kunming tiger said:


> hindsight is the only real wisdom in the world. According to the reports coming out of Thailand the project is behind schedule , time is money therefore you are paying interest on the money borrowed to start construction the longer it takes to finish the more it will cost in the long term. HSR require large up front investment there is no cheap way to do it, as for debt traps the Chinese are built more HSR than the rest of the world combined and partly financed that by borrowing money from international institutions ho were concerned about lending money to them when it was in their interests to do so. The HSR system in China is often credited as one of the major factors driving the huge growth economic activity and a economic growth rate that is jaw dropping. They have established a model for economic development for developing nations to follow with whatever compromises are needed for their respective countries. Taking shortcuts like using ramps in urban areas create more problems with public opposition that doesn't justify the savings in cost. Awarding contracts to local companies is a good idea but if the project reaches a standstill due to the converge of factors we are seeing now how are those companies better off. As for awarding the construction work to state companies or Chinese SOE the reason is simple enough they build faster , cheaper and better that anyone else this would usually make them the first option not the last option. As for loans the Thai government could have secured finance from any number of international banks for the purpose, the terms and conditions are which are entirely a matter for them . We are not privy to that decision and if their ability to service then loans was an issue why did they green light the project. On a minor note the correction translation of 中国共产党 should be CPC. It is clearly visible on all official documentation including their passports etc As for contacting them on the matter concerning the issues you raised above as I am neither a citizen or resident of Thailand of the PRC and have no issues at stake it might be better for someone from Thailand to contact them , they might be willing to accommodate you. The premise is simple why would the Chinese insist on using Chinese labour, Chinese Technology, and Chinese Capital in building a project to world class level on budget and on schedule in most instances well it would interesting to see their reaction to that inquiry.
> 
> As the old proverb says "小马过河 "


Have you ever learnt about political and legal landmines when the bidders gone crash on the way SRT Board have pick the winner yet?

Have you hands into the Railway land is the shortest way have your hands burnt as if you were putting your hand into molten steel. So many foreign investors have learnt very hard way on this land issues in Thailand.


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## Wisarut

Codename B said:


> The Thai-Chinese Joint Committee proposed to China to invest 60% and Thailand 40% or 70% China and 30% Thailand, but from negotiations China is unwilling to co-invest with Thailand's proposal, because it's not useful to them.
> 
> The reason was that we do not give permission to China to develop both sides of the land around the train line, and the right on the land around train station like Laos gives, which is absurd, basically selling the country. Not even the current Gov is that stupid.
> 
> This causes China not to ask for a joint venture resulting in Thailand to invest entirely on this HSR line on its own.
> 
> Thailand then was ready to be in charge of all constructions, except for bridge and tunneling work, where a company from China is required, because they have more expertise, or if a construction company from China will join in the construction, it must be joint venture with a Thai company. Let Thai companies be the leader.


Yah, I have seen some Chinese contractors have formed the joint venture with Thai partners though.


----------



## cheehg

Appleich said:


> Actually, it’s the opposite from what you say. This is how Thailand protecting its national interest at best and avoid falling into debt traps. You can ask CCP and tell us why they didn’t let state companies to jointly invest in this HSR with Thai counterparts but rather preferred Thai gov to sign into huge debt with high interest rate and award all construction contracts to Chinese contractors in the first place. There might be several obstacle and delay along the way but Thailand doing HSR on its own is much better and wiser.


The main income even for Chinese railway inside China is from freight. Chinese companies think this project should be 200km/h mixed use for passenger and freight.
Chinese companies think Thailand's decision to build HSR is not economical viable. So they don't want to invest on this project. 

Thailand borrowed much more from Japan than China for many projects.
It was IMF and World bank traped debts to Thailand after Sorros attacked Thai currency.


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## Wisarut

cheehg said:


> The main income even for Chinese railway inside China is from freight. Chinese companies think this project should be 200km/h mixed use for passenger and freight.
> Chinese companies think Thailand's decision to build HSR is not economical viable. So they don't want to invest on this project.
> 
> Thailand borrowed much more from Japan than China for many projects.
> It was IMF and World bank traped debts to Thailand after Sorros attacked Thai currency.


Freights would be handled by existing Thai railway networks which need to run as daily basis or even more frequent services with such sheer volumes from Mainland China


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## Codename B

cheehg said:


> The main income even for Chinese railway inside China is from freight. Chinese companies think this project should be 200km/h mixed use for passenger and freight.
> Chinese companies think Thailand's decision to build HSR is not economical viable. So they don't want to invest on this project.
> 
> Thailand borrowed much more from Japan than China for many projects.
> It was IMF and World bank traped debts to Thailand after Sorros attacked Thai currency.


Unlike with China, for projects with Japan, Thailand can use its own workers and construction companies and materials within the countries, which China doesn’t agree to.


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## Wisarut

Codename B said:


> Unlike with China, for projects with Japan, Thailand can use its own workers and construction companies and materials within the countries, which China doesn’t agree to.


Only the special canvases which cannot be produced in Thailand will have to be imported from Mainland China, as far as I know. To keep much of the works to help Thai contractors, the detailed on raw materials to be used as a part of TOR have to be revealed so Thai contractors could calculate the cost before bidding.


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## Appleich

cheehg said:


> The main income even for Chinese railway inside China is from freight. Chinese companies think this project should be 200km/h mixed use for passenger and freight.
> Chinese companies think Thailand's decision to build HSR is not economical viable. So they don't want to invest on this project.
> 
> Thailand borrowed much more from Japan than China for many projects.
> It was IMF and World bank traped debts to Thailand after Sorros attacked Thai currency.


The only difference is that IMF and World Bank are not countries. They don’t really have powers. Unlike China which is a country, they never ask something like land concessions as collateral for the lending or trade privileges from the borrower. In short, they can’t really do what Neo-colonial empire would do.


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## cheehg

Appleich said:


> The only difference is that IMF and World Bank are not countries. They don’t really have powers. Unlike China which is a country, they never ask something like land concessions as collateral for the lending or trade privileges from the borrower. In short, they can’t really do what Neo-colonial empire would do.


Wrong，IMF and WB are USA backed. they are exactly for Neo-co benifits. If you are old enough to know the condictions of them to loan to Asian countries during 1997 crisis. Thailand was one of the victims. Thailand should have be a more developed country now if it is not this crisis.


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## cheehg

Codename B said:


> Unlike with China, for projects with Japan, Thailand can use its own workers and construction companies and materials within the countries, which China doesn’t agree to.


It depends the loan contracts and countries. China ex. bank is created to help Chinese companies to export goods and service by provide loans to import countries. So the condiction is to buy Chinese goods and services, They are many non-Chinese projects in this fashion, Japanese has Indian HSR, French has Moroco HSR.
If countries borrow in other methods, they can do whatever they want. Thai HSR is like this. Chinese companies can bid for contracts but the decision is made by Thailand. If Chinese companies want to use non-Thai work force, they have to give the season that they cannot find Thai workers in the field first.


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## mabo.univ

Wisarut said:


> According to the design i have seen, they need to build the new access roads around Ayutthaya station for High speed train which is the same place at the exiting Ayutthaya station as demanded by the local Ayutthaya people


I live in Ayutthaya myself. Right now there is already huge traffic problem around chedi roundabout and road between the central and lotus Robinson. I can not imagine the what will look like after the HSR is being built. 
Plus the potential flooding threat along the Pasak river. A lot of buildings were flooded just a few months ago along the river. 

Inevitably Ayutthaya and Saraburi land price will be increased value if HSR will be built in time. Living in ayutthaya and working in Bangkok is more viable. Comparing with the current rail system take around 2 hours. 

But in my personal opinion, the local traffic system is unlikely solve the traffic problem along the train station if there is a huge crowd in and out the station.


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## mabo.univ

Codename B said:


> Unlike with China, for projects with Japan, Thailand can use its own workers and construction companies and materials within the countries, which China doesn’t agree to.


As far as I know, Japan is no longer interested to build the HSR from bangkok to Chiang mai.


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## Codename B

mabo.univ said:


> As far as I know, Japan is no longer interested to build the HSR from bangkok to Chiang mai.


My answer was not in anyway related to HSR by Japan, but projects with Japan in general.

Also, Thailand in cooperation with Japan are currently studying following rail master plans.
What Japan was saying was that, they were not interested in sharing Bangkok-Chiang Mai HSR tracks with the northeastern HSR line, which Thailand must find a solution to.

_“Both sides reaffirmed the determination to continue collaboration in the development of the quality infrastructure, including transport system in Thailand through key railways development projects, such as the *Red Line Mass Transit System* and the *Bangkok-Chiang Mai High Speed Rail* as well as the *Second Mass Rapid Transit Master Plan in Bangkok Metropolitan Region (M-MAP2)*, the *Bang Sue Smart City* and the road traffic cooperation.”_









"ศักดิ์สยาม"โปรยยาหอม "ญี่ปุ่น" เปิดแผน MR-MAP ศึกษาจบปลายปี'64 นี้


"ศักดิ์สยาม" ถกร่วม "ญี่ปุ่น" โปรยยาหอมแผนงานลงทุนคมนาคม ย้ำยังให้ความสำคัญแผน M-MAP2 และไฮสปีดภาคเหนือ ก่อนโชว์ไอเดีย "MR-MAP" คาดปลายปีศึกษาเสร็จ




www.prachachat.net


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## Wisarut

mabo.univ said:


> As far as I know, Japan is no longer interested to build the HSR from bangkok to Chiang mai.


Beware, Chinese government would fill the vacuum though, a big humiliation for Japan for sure.


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## mabo.univ

Codename B said:


> The Thai-Chinese Joint Committee proposed to China to invest 60% and Thailand 40% or 70% China and 30% Thailand, but from negotiations China is unwilling to co-invest with Thailand's proposal, because it's not useful to them.
> 
> The reason was that we do not give permission to China to develop both sides of the land around the train line, and the right on the land around train station like Laos gives, which is absurd, basically selling the country. Not even the current Gov is that stupid.
> 
> This causes China not to ask for a joint venture resulting in Thailand to invest entirely on this HSR line on its own.
> 
> Thailand then was ready to be in charge of all constructions, except for bridge and tunneling work, where a company from China is required, because they have more expertise, or if a construction company from China will join in the construction, it must be joint venture with a Thai company. Let Thai companies be the leader.


I think you have take the possible expansion plan into the account. Take ayutthaya for example. The future bkk-cnx HSR also passing here, without the extra land. Expansion will be unimaginable. As for the current plan. Ayutthaya station is a vertical structure. 
Secondly, building bridge and tunnel is just the first step for HSR. There are tracking laying, Power cabling and power supply, signal installation, control center, track testing etc. Let the Thai staff work on-site without previous relevant experience. Although some knowledge may be similar. But not technological identical.
Laos-china railway use single-track for the moment. When the traffic amount pick up. LCR will has the reserved land for double track expansion.


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## Wisarut

mabo.univ said:


> I think you have take the possible expansion plan into the account. Take ayutthaya for example. The future bkk-cnx HSR also passing here, without the extra land. Expansion will be unimaginable. As for the current plan. Ayutthaya station is a vertical structure.
> Secondly, building bridge and tunnel is just the first step for HSR. There are tracking laying, Power cabling and power supply, signal installation, control center, track testing etc. Let the Thai staff work on-site without previous relevant experience. Although some knowledge may be similar. But not technological identical.
> Laos-china railway use single-track for the moment. When the traffic amount pick up. LCR will has the reserved land for double track expansion.


The land in question will be on Ayodhaya Municipal (the old one before the foundation of Ayutthaya city Island) on 4 March 1851. The TOD of Ayutthaya station has stipulated in such a way


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## Codename B

mabo.univ said:


> I think you have take the possible expansion plan into the account. Take ayutthaya for example. The future bkk-cnx HSR also passing here, without the extra land. Expansion will be unimaginable. As for the current plan. Ayutthaya station is a vertical structure.
> Secondly, building bridge and tunnel is just the first step for HSR. There are tracking laying, Power cabling and power supply, signal installation, control center, track testing etc. Let the Thai staff work on-site without previous relevant experience. Although some knowledge may be similar. But not technological identical.
> Laos-china railway use single-track for the moment. When the traffic amount pick up. LCR will has the reserved land for double track expansion.


Ayutthaya HSR station was already designed as a TOD that can accommodate both the North and Northeastern HSR lines.

Also, key contracts for the northeastern HSR, known as Contract 2.3, covers the railway system, electrical, *signaling and communication systems*, procurement of train carriages, *personnel training*, the operation and maintenance works and *technology transfer.*

Those stuff are already included in the contracts, so that Thailand can learn and build HSR track on its own now (and in the future).


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## Wisarut

the way Naowarat Phatthanakarn PCL workers are digging high speed train tunnel near Lam Takhong reservoir



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=952309428985105


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## Wisarut

progress on Thai - China high speed railway


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## kunming tiger

cheehg said:


> The main income even for Chinese railway inside China is from freight. Chinese companies think this project should be 200km/h mixed use for passenger and freight.
> Chinese companies think Thailand's decision to build HSR is not economical viable. So they don't want to invest on this project.
> 
> Thailand borrowed much more from Japan than China for many projects.
> It was IMF and World bank traped debts to Thailand after Sorros attacked Thai currency.


you know your history 

there are two competing models of development, the Laos Model and the Afghanistan Model both deliver outcomes in line with the respective systems backing them.


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## Codename B

*Thailand’s Goal to Become a High-Income Nation by 2029 *
10 January 2022



> A target has been set that, by 2029, the EEC will help pull Thailand out of the middle-income trap and turn it into a developed country. The EEC is also set to become a model for special economic zones across the country in the future.











Striving to Enhance Thailand’s Standing to Become a High-Income Nation


All relevant agencies have been urged to raise the public awareness of the benefits to be gained from the Eastern Economic Corridor (EEC), under the Government’s policy of pulling Thailand out of the middle-income trap and developing it as a high-income country.




thailand.prd.go.th






> Outlays from private investment prospects in the EEC are predicted to stay at 2.2-2.5 trillion baht over the next five years. Of the total, about 200 billion baht would come from investment in the Eastern Aviation City, city development around U-tapao airport, *and development around the main high-speed rail stations linking three airports.*
> 
> Investment in targeted industries is estimated at 400 billion baht a year, of which 250 billion would be normal annual investment, with the remainder from new S-curve industries such as electric vehicles, digital, medical services, logistics, smart farms and food, said the EEC Office.











EEC seen as solution to 'middle-income trap'


The government's flagship Eastern Economic Corridor (EEC) is expected to play a key role in helping Thailand overcome the "middle-income trap" by 2029.




www.bangkokpost.com





*🚅 High-speed rail linking 3 Airports, the second high-speed rail line of Thailand, is under construction. *
-Basic Detail-
• Distance: 220 km.
• Speed: 250 km./h.
• Station: 9 stations (Donmueang, Bang Sue Grand station, Makkasan, Suvarnabhumi, Chachoengsao, Chonburi, Sriracha, Pattaya, and Utapao)
• Train: on selection
• Project budget: 6.8 billion $ (100% Thai budget)
• Opens in 2025 (Suvarnabhumi-Utapao section, 2026 for the rest)

















Source: Progressive Thailand


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## Appleich

*China's pan-Asian railway sputters to a halt in Thailand*








China's pan-Asian railway sputters to a halt in Thailand


Bangkok's indifference to Beijing's plan creates gap in Belt and Road network




asia.nikkei.com










China wanted to take all from a rail project in Thailand but turned out they got nothing


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## mabo.univ

Appleich said:


> *China's pan-Asian railway sputters to a halt in Thailand*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China's pan-Asian railway sputters to a halt in Thailand
> 
> 
> Bangkok's indifference to Beijing's plan creates gap in Belt and Road network
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asia.nikkei.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China wanted to take all from a rail project in Thailand but turned out they got nothing


As the major regional rivalry in Asia, you can not trust that much from a Indian news outlet about China. 

Thailand has fully invested in the HSR between the Bangkok to Kunming. Most of the contract are already under construction. I am in Khon Kaen railway station two months ago. Most of the train stations are elevated and accomdate the metre gauge and future high speed train. So what made CRUX claim as they stated in News?

India is not capable of construct such project in terms of technology or economy. I am not surprised that how people are jealous in this regards. 

According to the Bangkok Post. Thai deputy prime Minister has formed a panel to accelerate the construction the second Mekong bridge connecting to Nong Khai and Vientiane. And give SRT green light for the budget.


----------



## Appleich

CRUX quoted that article wrote by Nikkei Asia which is a Japanese publication. It's not really the Indians who broke this news which, either ways, still accurately take into account of all the facts about this project.

I think Nikkei is referring to the fact that China can no longer extend its freight corridor via network of standard gauge railways into Malay Peninsula because Thailand makes clear its standard gauge railways (the real high-speed one) will only cater passenger train traffic. This means China's BRI Railway come to a halt at Laos-Thailand border and will have to transfer its freight traffic onto meter gauge railway somewhere. The situation creates somewhat of a rail gap where prospect of having seamless cargo services between South East Asia and China is no longer realistic.


----------



## mabo.univ

Appleich said:


> CRUX quoted that article wrote by Nikkei Asia which is a Japanese publication. It's not really the Indians who broke this news which, either ways, still accurately take into account of all the facts about this project.
> 
> I think Nikkei is referring to the fact that China can no longer extend its freight corridor via network of standard gauge railways into Malay Peninsula because Thailand makes clear its standard gauge railways (the real high-speed one) will only cater passenger train traffic. This means China's BRI Railway come to a halt at Laos-Thailand border and will have to transfer its freight traffic onto meter gauge railway somewhere. The situation creates somewhat of a rail gap where prospect of having seamless cargo services between South East Asia and China is no longer realistic.











Saksayam defends rail link plan


The Transport Ministry says it has told parliament that it wants to connect the kingdom with the China-Laos railway to create a seamless inter-border transport link.




www.bangkokpost.com




What kinds of Third hand source news it is. Why not read local Thai News?

Bangkok Post says Thai Government is want a seamless link. On the another hand, CRUX has distorted and twisted their narrative. If you are living in Thailand youself. You know what is going on the ground. Majority contract is under construction. Indian CRUX wanna make people to believe Thai HSR is going nowhere. 

Thai Government want to build a HSR with 250 km/ hours. It is never the main purpose to transport cargo on HSR rail. 

However it is clear that Thai HSR is linking the Laos-China railways.


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## Appleich

mabo.univ said:


> Thai Government want to build a HSR with 250 km/ hours. It is never the main purpose to transport cargo on HSR rail.


It was. That's why you wouldn't see section no. 3 in the picture below on any rail maps now because the main purpose of standard gauge railways in Thailand are now for passenger services only:


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## mabo.univ

Appleich said:


> It was. That's why you wouldn't see section no. 3 in the picture below on any rail maps now because the main purpose of standard gauge railways in Thailand are now for passenger services only:
> View attachment 2649735


China did propose two routes. Thailand choosed a Reduced version. It is Ok. after all, Thailand has the right and sovereignty on its soil. Thailand wants its HSR. It is for sure. 

HSR and Cargo Rail are different rail system. Even the track is different, of course it is different in price. 

Even though certain cargo can be loaded in the HSR carriages. 

The final point I want to make is that all the news you read should be examined and fact-checked. Especially you care about it. Nikkei claims that I quote'" the transportation between bangkok and Nong Khai is not so important. If you ever drive from Bangkok to Korat. You know how busy it is all the time on Route number 2. It make me sick. It especially insult the people from northeast of Thailand.
In this new year alone. More than 200+ Thai people lost their life for traffic accidents 
during the new year holidays. Should the Thai HSR to be built early. More lives can be saved.

If Nikkei news preaching is correct, Thai government also shouldn't be busy building M6 high way either


----------



## Wisarut

mabo.univ said:


> China did propose two routes. Thailand choosed a Reduced version. It is Ok. after all, Thailand has the right and sovereignty on its soil. Thailand wants its HSR. It is for sure.
> 
> HSR and Cargo Rail are different rail system. Even the track is different, of course it is different in price.
> 
> Even though certain cargo can be loaded in the HSR carriages.
> 
> The final point I want to make is that all the news you read should be examined and fact-checked. Especially you care about it. Nikkei claims that I quote'" the transportation between bangkok and Nong Khai is not so important. If you ever drive from Bangkok to Korat. You know how busy it is all the time on Route number 2. It make me sick. It especially insult the people from northeast of Thailand.
> In this new year alone. More than 200+ Thai people lost their life for traffic accidents
> during the new year holidays. Should the Thai HSR to be built early. More lives can be saved.
> 
> If Nikkei news preaching is correct, Thai government also shouldn't be busy building M6 high way either


Beware of our own Media bias when they have not been properly bribed.


----------



## Codename B

Rumour has it that the 3 Airports High Speed Rail will use Siemens train, after the official Siemens FB page posted specs for their HSR train in Thai.






Facebook လောဂ်အင်ဝင်ရန်


သင်၏ သူငယ်ချင်း၊ မိသားစု၊ သင်သိသောသူမျာနှင့် စတင်၍ ချိတ်ဆက်ပြီ မျှဝေရန် Facebook သို လောဂ်အင်ဝင်ပါ။




www.facebook.com


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## mabo.univ

Appleich said:


> It was. That's why you wouldn't see section no. 3 in the picture below on any rail maps now because the main purpose of standard gauge railways in Thailand are now for passenger services only:
> View attachment 2649735


I reviewed from the news report that 2015 China proposed the plan with 180km/h. However a lot of the revision has occurred. The route has been revised. And speed as well been upgraded. 
From my understanding, 180 km is cargo and passenger mixed. 250km/h is passenger only


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## Codename B

mabo.univ said:


> I reviewed from the news report that 2015 China proposed the plan with 180km/h. However a lot of the revision has occurred. The route has been revised. And speed as well been upgraded.
> From my understanding, 180 km is cargo and passenger mixed. 250km/h is passenger only


No, the 180km/h was the idea of the brainless Junta, when he took power and stole the HSR projects from PM Yingluck. He wanted to reduce the speed of the train to save cost and even called it “medium speed train”. 

After a lot of public outrages, it’s now reverted back the original 250km/h speed and the lines that you see today.


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## mabo.univ

Codename B said:


> No, the 180km/h was the idea of the brainless Junta, when he took power and stole the HSR projects from PM Yingluck. He wanted to reduce the speed of the train to save cost and even called it “medium speed train”.
> 
> After a lot of public outrages, it’s now reverted back the original 250km/h speed and the lines that you see today.


As a Chinese-Thai mixed family. I hope this can be a win-win project. 

Back to 1990's Bangkok is more developed than most of Chinese cities. However after 30 years. Thai city has been left behind In terms of traffic congestion and city planning etc. Through My study in China. I do notice their HSR Is more far away from the city center. I am not saying chinese choice of location is better. But Chinese rail construction has a long vision for every 5-10 years. 

My personal opinion is that 180km/h combined with cargo may not be such bad idea. After all cargo rail is more profitable than passengers rail. If Northeastern line is a big success. Many more line will be followed. Srt has book yearly losses of 10 billion Baht. Profitability should be a concern for Thailand.

However, I am not totally against the planned speed of 250km/h if everything has been thoroughly studied over.


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## Codename B

mabo.univ said:


> As a Chinese-Thai mixed family. I hope this can be a win-win project.
> 
> Back to 1990's Bangkok is more developed than most of Chinese cities. However after 30 years. Thai city has been left behind In terms of traffic congestion and city planning etc. Through My study in China. I do notice their HSR Is more far away from the city center. I am not saying chinese choice of location is better. But Chinese rail construction has a long vision for every 5-10 years.
> 
> My personal opinion is that 180km/h combined with cargo may not be such bad idea. After all cargo rail is more profitable than passengers rail. If Northeastern line is a big success. Many more line will be followed. Srt has book yearly losses of 10 billion Baht. Profitability should be a concern for Thailand.
> 
> However, I am not totally against the planned speed of 250km/h if everything has been thoroughly studied over.


The big outrages was that the 180km/h is only a little bit faster than the double track projects with 160km/h max speed, while having to invest a lot more.

In terms of profitability, Thailand is following the Japanese TOD model, capitalizing on development around the stations. The main goal of Thai HSR is not much about making profits from HSR, but to spur developments in other cities and regions and creating new cities around the HSR stations.

Don’t get high hope for northeastern line, since SRT will be running it. The most profitable one will be the 3 airports HSR line by the private sector, CP. Since they know what they’re doing, much more than SRT.


----------



## mabo.univ

Codename B said:


> The big outrages was that the 180km/h is only a little bit faster than the double track projects with 160km/h max speed, while having to invest a lot more.
> 
> In terms of profitability, Thailand is following the Japanese TOD model, capitalizing on development around the stations. The main goal of Thai HSR is not much about making profits from HSR, but to spur developments in other cities and regions and creating new cities around the HSR stations.
> 
> Don’t get high hope for northeastern line, since SRT will be running it. The most profitable one will be the 3 airports HSR line by the private sector, CP. Since they know what they’re doing, much more than SRT.


There are a few point I wanna add up. 

180km/h with the potential to upgraded to 250km/h. It was the plan during that time. The main reason is that Thai government do not want to invest higher amount of money and loan negotiations also failed. 

Electrified rail start super fast. Much faster than diesel powered train. I have a headache when the train is being filled with diesel. Plus standard gauge offers more seats and capabilities.

Anyway 250 km is still not bad choice. People in Bangkok will travel more to Korat in the weekend.


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## Wisarut

mabo.univ said:


> There are a few point I wanna add up.
> 
> 180km/h with the potential to upgraded to 250km/h. It was the plan during that time. The main reason is that Thai government do not want to invest higher amount of money and loan negotiations also failed.
> 
> Electrified rail start super fast. Much faster than diesel powered train. I have a headache when the train is being filled with diesel. Plus standard gauge offers more seats and capabilities.
> 
> Anyway 250 km is still not bad choice. People in Bangkok will travel more to Korat in the weekend.


253 km within 90 minutes which quite a godsend for those suffered from traffic jam at Dong Phraya yen section of Friendship Highway


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## Wisarut

End of Line for the first phase of Thai - China High Speed train at km 251 + 881.22





Land Transfer for the first phase of High Speed train connecting three airport to be done in March 2022.
Need to amend the contract after CP All (AERA One) had paid SRTET just 10% of 10,671.090 million Baht to get EMUs transfers to AERA One due to the issues of Covid-19 Epidemic. If Aera one has to pay in the installment manners which is:
5% for the first year 
7% for the second year 
10% for the third year 
10% for the fourth year 
10% for the fifth year
67.7% for the sixth year

the actual payment in 10 years will be ballooned up from 10,671.090 million Baht 11,705.463 million Baht due to the incurring annual interest rates which is 1,034.373 million Baht

At the time being, SRT could transfer only 98% of 180 km land strip (the 170-km land strip on Lad Krabang to U-Tapao and 10-km land strip from Bang Sue Grand Central to Donmueamg Airport) to Aera one, the last 2% of 180 km land strip will be transferred by the end of March 2022 due to the infrastructure removal along with land ownership clearance for 100 land plots along with the removal of those 200 households of slum dwellers.

The last 12 km from Bang Sue to Phyathai will need to remove at least 2 public utility including the BMA Drainage system and Pump station at Samsen canal along with FPT Oil Pipeline before the final transfer in October 2023.



https://mgronline.com/greeninnovation/detail/9650000006040










ซีพี-สกพอ.ถกแก้สัญญาไฮสปีด เร่งส่งมอบพื้นที่ 100% มี.ค.นี้


สกพอ.เตรียมประชุมบอร์ดบริหารไฮสปีดเชื่อมสามสนามบิน19 ม.ค.นี้ เคาะแก้สัญญา หลัง “ซีพี” เลื่อนจ่ายค่าบริหารแอร์พอร์ต เรล ลิงก์ 10,671 ล้านบาท ขณะที่ความคืบหน้าส่งมอบพื้นที่ยัน 100% ภายใน มี.ค.นี้




www.bangkokbiznews.com


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## Wisarut

Compromises which CP All Should accept: 
The payment will be shortened from 6 years according to SRT Board to 3 years according to the Government to cut down the accumulated interest rate which has been fixed to 2.375% a year - effectively cutting the total payment on civil works from 149,650 Million Baht to 142,000 Baht.

However, CP All have to take full responsibility on Section 4-1 of Thai - China High Speed train which has been boosted up from 3,896 million Baht to about 13,079 million Baht in addition the section of High Speed train connecting with 3 airports which CP All (AERA One) has to take an responsibility a 11,006 Million Baht - about 9,183 million Baht extra payment will government has to pay back to CP All within 3 years. 









รฟท.ขยาย MOU ซี.พี.เจรจาแก้สัญญา "ไฮสปีด" ถกโมเดลรัฐเลื่อนจ่ายคืนเร็วขึ้นแลกสร้างทับซ้อนไทย-จีน


รฟท.ขยาย MOU ถกแก้ไขสัญญาร่วมทุน ไฮสปีดเชื่อม 3 สนามบิน อีก 3 เดือน เปิดโมเดลเลื่อนจ่ายค่างานโยธาจากปีที่ 6 เป็นปีที่ 3 แลก ซี.พี.รับภาระค่าก่อสร้างช่วงทับซ้อนรถไฟไทย-จีน บางซื่อ-ดอนเมือง เพิ่ม 9 พันล้าน




mgronline.com


----------



## mabo.univ

SRT of Thailand loss 240 million baht from delay the Sino-Thai HSR per year by paying extra money to consulting company.

SOURCE:bangkok post


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## Wisarut

Progress on Thai - China High Speed Train reported on 25 March 2022 including the settlement on the issue of Ayutthaya with UNESCO 








Section done: Section 1-1 Klang Dong - Pang Asok by Highway Department (3.5 km)
Ongoing constructions:
1. Contract 2-1: Sikiw - Kudjik (11 km) by Civil Construction Services and Production Co. Ltd. with Expected Goal 100% Actual goal 85.29% delayed by 14.71%
2. Contract 3-2: Muak Lek tunnel and (12.35 km) by Naowarat Phatthanakarn PCL with Expected Goal 10.07 % Actual goal 0.56% delayed by 9.51%
3. Contract 3-3: Bundai Mah - Lam Takhong (21.60 km) including Pak Chong High Speed Train station by Thai Engineering and Industries Co. Ltd. with Expected Goal 22.04% Actual goal 2.73% delayed 19.31%
4. Contract 3-4: Lam Takhong - Sikiw and Kud Jik - Khok Kruad (37.45 km) by Italian Thai Development PCL with Expected Goal 17.69% Actual goal 21.03% progress 3.34%
5. Contract 3-5: Khok Kruad - Nakhon Ratchasima including Nakhon Ratchasima High Speed Train station (12.38 km) by SPTK joint venture with Expected Goal 17.92% Actual goal 2.15% progress 15.77% due to the disputes with those municipal in the western suburb of Nakhon Ratchasima city 
6. Contract 4-2: Donmueang - Nava Nakhon (21.80 km) by Unique Engineering and Construction PCL with Expected Goal 0.01% Actual goal 0.01% delayed 0.00%
7. Contract 4-3: Nava Nakhon - Ban Pho (23.00 km) by CAN Joint venture with Expected Goal 7.98% Actual goal 0.83% delayed 7.15%
8. Contract 4.6: Phra Khaew - Saraburi (31.60 km) by Unique Engineering and Construction PCL with Expected Goal 0.01% Actual goal 0.01% delayed 0.00%
9. Contrac 4-7: Saraburi - Kaeng Khoi (12.99 km) including Saraburi High Speed train station by Civil Engineering PCL with Expected Goal 12.07 % Actual goal 16.11% progress 4.04%
10. Contract 4-4: Chiang Rak Noy Depot and maintainance center by Italian Thai Development PCL 

The contracts wiuch cannot be signed yet

1. Contract 3-1 : Kaeng Khoi - Klang Dong and Pang Asok - Bundai Mah (30.21 km) - need Supreme Adminisration Court Ruling to end the disputes between competing contractors. 
2. Contract 4-1: Bang Sue Grand central - Donmueang (15.21 km) - need to deal with the way to allow AERA One to construct Donmueang station of High Speed train which have to share the space between Thai - China High Speed train and High Speed train connecting three airport 
3. Contract 4-5: Ban Pho - Phra Kaew (13.30 km) by Italian Thai Development PCL due to the issue of Ayutthaya High Speed train station building and the world heritage site. 

Nevertheless Contract 4-5 has gotten the clearance from UNESCO
The original construct for Ayutthaya High Speed train station: 2,250 Million Baht (614 million Baht on the structure and tracks and 1,636 million Baht for the construction of Ayutthaya station for High Speed train. 
However the ongoing Russian vs. UKraine Conflicts has expected the 20% extra cost of 327 million Baht along with 198 million for the additional works, This will leave the funds for the construction for Ayuthaya railway station of high speed train a 2,161 million which it can slightly reduce the cost for tracks and structure from 614 million Baht and the rest would have to be the main station building. This will compell to call for the new bidding if Italian Thai Development PCL has declined to accept the new prices.









คืบหน้าไฮสปีดเทรนกรุงเทพฯ-โคราช ปลดล็อกสถานีอยุธยาเชื่อม EEC


อัพเดตความคืบหน้ารถไฟความเร็วสูงไทย-จีน ณ 25 มีนาคม 2565 โดยโครงการรถไฟความเร็วสูงไทย-จีน ช่วงกรุงเทพฯ-หนองคาย เริ่มต้นนับ 1 มาตั้งแต่ปี 2560




www.prachachat.net


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## Wisarut

Section 2-1 (Sikiw - Kudjik) with the distance of 11 km is almost done



__ https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1327506431085445&id=100014783023170



Section 2-1 (Sikiw - Kudjik) with the distance of 11 km at Soong Noen
https://www.facebook.com/neung.chakkarat.5/posts/2532026676953692


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## OnRail123

When will the trial run start? Getting a train to actually run, even if only between two stations, would be exciting.


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## mabo.univ

OnRail123 said:


> When will the trial run start? Getting a train to actually run, even if only between two stations, would be exciting.


At least 4-5 years. The bottle neck sections haven't been yet started. Not need to mention the sleeper, track, Power cabling, signaling, stations, maintenance center. 

according to land expropriation plan in Korat and Ayutthaya, it seems a lot of properties around the existing station will be demolished.


----------



## Wisarut

Progress on Thai - China High Speed Train with the price tag of 179,412.21 million Baht distance of 250.77 km is 4.62% which is much slower than expected goal of 8.64% by 4.02% due to the ongoing troubles, a serious crisis indeed to the point that it is unlikely to be opened in 2026.









The problem is due to the land expripriation from the government agencies including Forestry Dept on section that pass Dong Phraya Yen, Irrigation Dept on section that pass irrigation ditches, and Treasury Dept, 









Section done: Section 1-1 Klang Dong - Pang Asok by Highway Department (3.5 km with the price tag of 490 million Baht)

Ongoing constructions:
1. Contract 2-1: Sikiw - Kudjik (11 km with the price tag of 3,114.98 million Baht) by Civil Construction Services and Production Co. Ltd. with Expected Goal 100% Actual goal 85.29% delayed by 14.71%

2. Contract 3-2: Muak Lek tunnel and (12.35 km with the price tag of 4,279 million Baht) by Naowarat Phatthanakarn PCL with Expected Goal 12.33 % Actual goal 0.56% delayed by 11.83 %

3. Contract 3-3: Bundai Mah - Lam Takhong (21.60 km with the price tag of 9,838 million Baht) including Pak Chong High Speed Train station by Thai Engineering and Industries Co. Ltd. with Expected Goal 27.21% Actual goal 2.73% delayed 24.48% 

4. Contract 3-4: Lam Takhong - Sikiw and Kud Jik - Khok Kruad (37.45 km with the price tag of 9,838 million Baht) by Italian Thai Development PCL with Expected Goal 21.47% Actual goal 21.03% delayed 0.44% 

5. Contract 3-5: Khok Kruad - Nakhon Ratchasima including Nakhon Ratchasima High Speed Train station (12.38 km with the price tag of 7,750 million Baht) by SPTK joint venture with Expected Goal 20.55% Actual goal 2.22% delayed 20.33% due to the disputes with those municipal in the western suburb of Nakhon Ratchasima city

6. Contract 4-2: Donmueang - Nava Nakhon (21.80 km with the price tag of 10,570 million Baht) by Unique Engineering and Construction PCL with Expected Goal 0.02% Actual goal 0.01% delayed 0.01%

7. Contract 4-3: Nava Nakhon - Ban Pho (23.00 km with the price tag of 11,525.35 million Baht) by CAN Joint venture (China State Construction Engineering Corporation Limited - A.S. Associate Engineering (1964) Co. Ltd. - Naowarat Phatthanakarn PCL) with Expected Goal 11.73% Actual goal 0.83% delayed 10.90%

8. Contract 4.6: Phra Khaew - Saraburi (31.60 km with the price tag of 9,429 million Baht) by Unique Engineering and Construction PCL with Expected Goal 0.04% Actual goal 0.01% delayed 0.03%

9. Contrac 4-7: Saraburi - Kaeng Khoi (12.99 km with the price tag of 8,560 million Baht) including Saraburi High Speed train station by Civil Engineering PCL with Expected Goal 14.34 % Actual goal 16.11% progress 1.77%

10. Contract 4-4: Chiang Rak Noy Depot and maintainance center with the price tag of 6,573 million Baht by Italian Thai Development PCL but the construction cannot be started since the land expropriaion for Chiang Rak Noy Depot and maintainance center is not done yet. 

The section is not started yet:
1. Contract 3-1 : Kaeng Khoi - Klang Dong and Pang Asok - Bundai Mah (30.21 km with the mean price tag of 11,386 million Baht ) - need Supreme Adminisration Court Ruling to end the disputes between competing contractors including Comptoller General who takes side with Thai - Malaysian contractor (BPHB ) vs. SRT Board of Director who take side with Italian Thai Development PCL - -CREC No.10JV .

2. Contract 4-1: Bang Sue Grand central - Donmueang (15.21 km ) - need to deal with the way to allow AERA One to construct Donmueang station of High Speed train which have to share the space between Thai - China High Speed train and High Speed train connecting three airport. This would require the amending the 50-year contract to allow AERA One to handle the project. 

3. Contract 4-5: Ban Pho - Phra Kaew (13.30 km with the mean price of 11,801 million Baht ) due to the issue of Ayutthaya High Speed train station building and the world heritage site and the contractor would be the third contractor (Bunchai Phanit (1979) Co.Ltd. - subsidiary of Civil Engineering PCL who offers the bidding price at 10,326 Million Baht) since Italian Thai Development PCL who offers 9913 milllion Baht refuses to confirm the price due to The ongoing Russian vs. UKraine Conflicts has expected the 20% extra cost of 327 million Baht along with 198 million for the additional works, This will leave the funds for the construction for Ayuthaya railway station of high speed train a 2,161 million which it can slightly reduce the cost for tracks and structure from 614 million Baht and the rest would have to be the main station building. 

There will be 2 sections to deal with - One is the track and the other is Ayutthaya railway station for high Speed train station which SRT is spending 6 month for studying and need to wait for UNESCO to approve HIA of Ayutthaya railway station for high Speed train which take another 12 month to be done. Therefore, SRT would ask the third contractor (Bunchai Phanit (1979) Co.Ltd. - subsidiary of Civil Engineering PCL who offers the bidding price at 10,326 Million Baht) to handle the track construction first but need to get legal clearance first before signing the contract in the next 2 months to handle the track construction first. Once HIA clearance is done, Ayutthaya railway station for High Speed train will be the next

Covid-19 epidemic has compelled the contractors to recruit more local workers rather than imported workers to eliminate the issues with labor movements.

Now, the land expropriation decree has been issued to solve the problem.

For Contract 2-3 with the price tag of 50,633.5 Million Baht system installation and EMU to be paid in US Dollar 80% amd Thai Baht 20%, the rising US Dollars is now become a big issue not to mention about Covid-19 that wreck havoc on both Thailand and Mainland China.

With such delays, expect the line to be open not in 2026 for sure.

For the second section from Nakhon Ratchasima to Nong Khai with the distance of 357 km and 5 stations (Bua Yai - - Ban Phai - Khon kaen - Udonthani - Nong Khai) is now waiting for EIA clearance with a hope to start the bidding in December 2022 so as to start the construction from October 2023 to September 2027 and system installation from April 2024 to September 2029. 

For the 3rd section from nong Khai to Vientiane with the distance of 16 km will need to construt the new Friendship bridge - 30 meter east of existing bridge but still not fully settled yet. 









วิกฤต "รถไฟไทย-จีน" ก่อสร้าง 5 ปีคืบ 4.62% “รับเหมาฟ้องร้อง-ติดมรดกโลก-เวนคืนล่าช้า” ‘ไฮสปีดสายแรก’ ส่อลากยาวหมดลุ้นเปิดปี 69


บิ๊กโปรเจกต์ความร่วมมือโครงการรถไฟ ไทย-จีน เส้นทางกรุงเทพฯ-นครราชสีมา ระยะทาง 250.77 กม. วงเงินลงทุน 179,412.21 ล้านบาท สำหรับค่ารื้อย้ายและเวนคืน และค่างานโยธา โครงการก้าวเข้าสู่ปีที่ 8 แล้ว นับจากวันลงนามบันทึกความเข้าใจ




mgronline.com


----------



## thebeatlesalways123

so when wil be open bangkok nakhon? 2027?


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## Wisarut

thebeatlesalways123 said:


> so when wil be open bangkok nakhon? 2027?


Likely to be delayed


----------



## OnRail123

Which Phase 1 of Eastern HSR and Northeastern HSR will be completed first? There seem way too much politics to contend with. The contractors are right to delay work until the politicians and local powers sort out the situation.

Is the Northeastern double track project still on track? If so, Phase 3 of the Northeastern HSR project should be given priority to get that bridge done, along with logistics infrastructure in Nong Khai. That should generate the most tangible benefits in the shortest time.


----------



## Wisarut

OnRail123 said:


> Which Phase 1 of Eastern HSR and Northeastern HSR will be completed first? There seem way too much politics to contend with. The contractors are right to delay work until the politicians and local powers sort out the situation.
> 
> Is the Northeastern double track project still on track? If so, Phase 3 of the Northeastern HSR project should be given priority to get that bridge done, along with logistics infrastructure in Nong Khai. That should generate the most tangible benefits in the shortest time.


The delays have everything to do with the following issues
1. Covid-19 epidemic that wreck havoc on those immigration workers which compelled the contractors to hire the natives who are unempyed by Covid-19 epidemic
2. the conflicts with different agencies who are the landowners which need land expropriation decrees for force those agencies as well as the landowners to surrender the land plots.
3. the issue on HIA (Heritage Impact Assessment) which need UNESCO approval for Ayutthaya High Speed Train Station at the same precintc as existing Ayutthaya railway station which takes a year to be done after SRT has finished the assessment which takes 6 months to be done.
4. the need to get the Supreme Administration Court Ruling to put the end of disputes of SRT Board vs. Comptoller General since Comptoller General is not satisfied with the Central Administration Court Ruling which is NOT in their favors.


----------



## mabo.univ

OnRail123 said:


> Which Phase 1 of Eastern HSR and Northeastern HSR will be completed first? There seem way too much politics to contend with. The contractors are right to delay work until the politicians and local powers sort out the situation.
> 
> Is the Northeastern double track project still on track? If so, Phase 3 of the Northeastern HSR project should be given priority to get that bridge done, along with logistics infrastructure in Nong Khai. That should generate the most tangible benefits in the shortest time.


Even Phase 3 is getting the priority, it won't make any difference since the Thailand is not interested in developing Na Tha station into a logistic center(Transhipment yard) for the moment for SGR.

When the Thailand sent its first fruit container by Rail. The customs was not prepared either. Customs post is 3 km from the station. Equipment and facilities fells behinds at the moment.

For passenger. If Thailand allow LCR train across the future bridge to Nong Khai. Then the kamaavat meter gauge station would be obsolete in this regard.


----------



## Wisarut

mabo.univ said:


> Even Phase 3 is getting the priority, it won't make any difference since the Thailand is not interested in developing Na Tha station into a logistic center(Transhipment yard) for the moment for SGR.
> 
> When the Thailand sent its first fruit container by Rail. The customs was not prepared either. Customs post is 3 km from the station. Equipment and facilities fells behinds at the moment.
> 
> For passenger. If Thailand allow LCR train across the future bridge to Nong Khai. Then the kamaavat meter gauge station would be obsolete in this regard.


Well, Thai government wants to give a concession by private sectors have pressed the complains that they need amenities to keep private sector staying in that area including shower rooms, restrooms, 7-11 convenient stores and more local trains to feed those cargo stations.


----------



## OnRail123

mabo.univ said:


> Even Phase 3 is getting the priority, it won't make any difference since the Thailand is not interested in developing Na Tha station into a logistic center(Transhipment yard) for the moment for SGR.
> 
> When the Thailand sent its first fruit container by Rail. The customs was not prepared either. Customs post is 3 km from the station. Equipment and facilities fells behinds at the moment.
> 
> For passenger. If Thailand allow LCR train across the future bridge to Nong Khai. Then the kamaavat meter gauge station would be obsolete in this regard.


Assuming the double track project is on track, getting Phase 3 done first is to prepare for the seemingly inevitable delay of the Northeastern HSR project. Phase 3 infrastructures would presumably include the facility for transshipping cargos between the meter gauge and standard gauge railways on the Thai side and provide higher border-crossing capacity for meter gauge passenger trains to make use of the new Lao Thai Railway Station in Vientiane.


----------



## mabo.univ

OnRail123 said:


> Assuming the double track project is on track, getting Phase 3 done first is to prepare for the seemingly inevitable delay of the Northeastern HSR project. Phase 3 infrastructures would presumably include the facility for transshipping cargos between the meter gauge and standard gauge railways on the Thai side and provide higher border-crossing capacity for meter gauge passenger trains to make use of the new Lao Thai Railway Station in Vientiane.


Logic thinking is not self-evident here. What the decision maker in Bangkok do not necessarily share the points of view with Issan people(Thai northeastern). 

From Asian countries mentality is perhaps like this. A border connection with superior foreign railway systems embarrassing central government. It is not in the Bangkok's interest that Nong Khai prosper before the Bangkok-Nong Khai connection.

Same thing is also valid for Malaysia-singapore HSR. Malaysia leader worry about johor state falling to closer to Singapore.

There is story with way back 2015. Chinese officials talked several around with Thai ministerial level officials. However Thai officials did not have enough mandate to decide anything.Then level of talk rose to vice premiere level. 

Another things Thai people are quite addicted to the old things. There are not uncommon here to drive the car for 15-20 years. In Bangkok, there are still public bus which produced in 70's. Thailand SRT even imported 
Japanese retired JR hakkido kiha train for future operations. 

Compare with Kenya and Tanzania who has both metre gauge. They even switch to standards gauge step by step. 

Perhaps. One possible scenario is that the current Mekong bridge reached the maximum capacity then Thailand decide to build new one then.


----------



## Wisarut

mabo.univ said:


> Logic thinking is not self-evident here. What the decision maker in Bangkok do not necessarily share the points of view with Issan people(Thai northeastern).
> 
> From Asian countries mentality is perhaps like this. A border connection with superior foreign railway systems embarrassing central government. It is not in the Bangkok's interest that Nong Khai prosper before the Bangkok-Nong Khai connection.
> 
> Same thing is also valid for Malaysia-singapore HSR. Malaysia leader worry about johor state falling to closer to Singapore.
> 
> There is story with way back 2015. Chinese officials talked several around with Thai ministerial level officials. However Thai officials did not have enough mandate to decide anything.Then level of talk rose to vice premiere level.
> 
> Another things Thai people are quite addicted to the old things. There are not uncommon here to drive the car for 15-20 years. In Bangkok, there are still public bus which produced in 70's. Thailand SRT even imported
> Japanese retired JR hakkido kiha train for future operations.
> 
> Compare with Kenya and Tanzania who has both metre gauge. They even switch to standards gauge step by step.
> 
> Perhaps. One possible scenario is that the current Mekong bridge reached the maximum capacity then Thailand decide to build new one then.


Using Chinese loan will deprive the rights for Thai contractors to gain the jobs which are unacceptable.


----------



## OnRail123

Wisarut said:


> Using Chinese loan will deprive the rights for Thai contractors to gain the jobs which are unacceptable.


A railway is just a means to an end. Saving some jobs for Thai railway contractors may end up costing many more jobs in other segments of the Thai economy and developments in general, by depriving that important means of economic and social development for a longer time.

Keep jobs is always a good thing. The real question is at what cost, especially the opportunity cost to the overall economy. If the benefit of the railway is limited to creating some contract jobs, it does not sound like that the project should proceed.


----------



## mabo.univ

Wisarut said:


> Using Chinese loan will deprive the rights for Thai contractors to gain the jobs which are unacceptable.


Taking loan or not is not essential part of this delimma. Never ending administration barrier and legal battle, reluctant take action are in deed. Since you talk about the loan issue. Let us analysis a little bit. 
Does Thailand have sufficient funding like this?
The answer seems mostly unlikely. Let us take a look at BTS, MRT, airport Link, all the toll road in and out of bangkok and Eastern HSR. How many project are in concession agreement? Suppose that government want to fully invest in HSR. SRT will build Eastern line instead of CP lead consortium.Eastern line should be more profitable than northeastern line. 

Who get the contract is not main problem either. I believe They are equal qualified. No contractor can do their job if the land is not fully allocated to them, right?

If, I say if Thailand really has the ambition to link all the railways and becomes logistic center in ASEAN. It must put itself into a bigger picture. Who provide loans? Who get the job? It doesn't matter too much.it is super important for Thailand to become administration efficient and transparent. To have a long term vision. To win-win with its partners! Thailand has more talents, unfortunately the younger generation deserve a better platform which talents can succeed.

It is ridiculous to focus on a single comet, when you are in the greatest galaxy.


----------



## Wisarut

mabo.univ said:


> Taking loan or not is not essential part of this delimma. Never ending administration barrier and legal battle, reluctant take action are in deed. Since you talk about the loan issue. Let us analysis a little bit.
> Does Thailand have sufficient funding like this?
> The answer seems mostly unlikely. Let us take a look at BTS, MRT, airport Link, all the toll road in and out of bangkok and Eastern HSR. How many project are in concession agreement? Suppose that government want to fully invest in HSR. SRT will build Eastern line instead of CP lead consortium.Eastern line should be more profitable than northeastern line.
> 
> Who get the contract is not main problem either. I believe They are equal qualified. No contractor can do their job if the land is not fully allocated to them, right?
> 
> If, I say if Thailand really has the ambition to link all the railways and becomes logistic center in ASEAN. It must put itself into a bigger picture. Who provide loans? Who get the job? It doesn't matter too much.it is super important for Thailand to become administration efficient and transparent. To have a long term vision. To win-win with its partners! Thailand has more talents, unfortunately the younger generation deserve a better platform which talents can succeed.
> 
> It is ridiculous to focus on a single comet, when you are in the greatest galaxy.


Foreign Loan always have strings attached - either just simply string or tightening nooses depended on the conditions of the loan. It is a tradition to use loan to pay for the imported materials from the country who has given the loan despite of the availability of materials from domestic sources, a big upset to local industries.



OnRail123 said:


> A railway is just a means to an end. Saving some jobs for Thai railway contractors may end up costing many more jobs in other segments of the Thai economy and developments in general, by depriving that important means of economic and social development for a longer time.
> 
> Keep jobs is always a good thing. The real question is at what cost, especially the opportunity cost to the overall economy. If the benefit of the railway is limited to creating some contract jobs, it does not sound like that the project should proceed.


Well, keeping the jobs always have political end to secure voters for upcoming elections and donations from contractors.


----------



## Appleich

Wisarut said:


> Using Chinese loan will deprive the rights for Thai contractors to gain the jobs which are unacceptable.


Thai contractors + local workers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chinese contractors + foreign workers


----------



## mabo.univ

Appleich said:


> Thai contractors + local workers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chinese contractors + foreign workers


Shortsighted and xenophobia are by no means patriotism.

How many industries, fishing, construction business rely on foreign labor in Thailand?

Many Thai business can not survive without Myanmar worker alone. Thai worker can not fill in the these vacancies. You know this. Everyone in Thailand know this. 

Are Northeastern HSR are 100% Thai company?
Answer is no. Not even in Double track project and 3 airports HSR. Thailand do not possess all these civil construction capabilities for these amount of work. 

Is HSR delay good for Thailand?

Answer is no either. Delay firstly damaged its reputation in terms of higher risks level which made other future international partners less likely to participate. 
Secondly Thailand gov end up paying more money than it should be. By building less 5% in over 4 years for NE HSR. Thailand need to paying more money for consultants company and increasing inflation. 

By deliberately disconnecting Nong Khai and Vientiane South last year, Thailand has lost many business opportunities in Na Tha Station. Not mentioning the jobs it failed to create. 

Thai Gov has recently promoting NE economic corridor. Let us hope it will be materialized. 

The love for Thailand should never be narrowed minded and populism. Rather it should be visionary and constructive.


----------



## Appleich

mabo.univ said:


> Shortsighted and xenophobia are by no means patriotism.
> 
> How many industries, fishing, construction business rely on foreign labor in Thailand?
> 
> Many Thai business can not survive without Myanmar worker alone. Thai worker can not fill in the these vacancies. You know this. Everyone in Thailand know this.
> 
> Are Northeastern HSR are 100% Thai company?
> Answer is no. Not even in Double track project and 3 airports HSR. Thailand do not possess all these civil construction capabilities for these amount of work.
> 
> Is HSR delay good for Thailand?
> 
> Answer is no either. Delay firstly damaged its reputation in terms of higher risks level which made other future international partners less likely to participate.
> Secondly Thailand gov end up paying more money than it should be. By building less 5% in over 4 years for NE HSR. Thailand need to paying more money for consultants company and increasing inflation.
> 
> By deliberately disconnecting Nong Khai and Vientiane South last year, Thailand has lost many business opportunities in Na Tha Station. Not mentioning the jobs it failed to create.
> 
> Thai Gov has recently promoting NE economic corridor. Let us hope it will be materialized.
> 
> The love for Thailand should never be narrowed minded and populism. Rather it should be visionary and constructive.


Chinese imperialist propaganda just didn't work on us, sorry.


----------



## Wisarut

mabo.univ said:


> Shortsighted and xenophobia are by no means patriotism.
> 
> How many industries, fishing, construction business rely on foreign labor in Thailand?
> 
> Many Thai business can not survive without Myanmar worker alone. Thai worker can not fill in the these vacancies. You know this. Everyone in Thailand know this.
> 
> Are Northeastern HSR are 100% Thai company?
> Answer is no. Not even in Double track project and 3 airports HSR. Thailand do not possess all these civil construction capabilities for these amount of work.
> 
> Is HSR delay good for Thailand?
> 
> Answer is no either. Delay firstly damaged its reputation in terms of higher risks level which made other future international partners less likely to participate.
> Secondly Thailand gov end up paying more money than it should be. By building less 5% in over 4 years for NE HSR. Thailand need to paying more money for consultants company and increasing inflation.
> 
> By deliberately disconnecting Nong Khai and Vientiane South last year, Thailand has lost many business opportunities in Na Tha Station. Not mentioning the jobs it failed to create.
> 
> Thai Gov has recently promoting NE economic corridor. Let us hope it will be materialized.
> 
> The love for Thailand should never be narrowed minded and populism. Rather it should be visionary and constructive.


Interests of Mainland China like these ones are in serious conflicts with our own national interests.


----------



## mabo.univ

Appleich said:


> Chinese imperialist propaganda just didn't work on us, sorry.


My idea is basic the same as Facebook page Thailand infrastructure posted last year in September. 

By the way, I am not Chinese citizen nor working for Chinese government. 

My wife is from Issan. Every New Year and Songkran, we just wanna go home safe and
comfortable. 

I just explain with the simple facts. If you want to prove your point, you should use fact to prove them. 

Label others unreasonably or calling names do not make you more righteous.


----------



## mabo.univ

Wisarut said:


> Interests of Mainland China like these ones are in serious conflicts with our own national interests.


Serious Interest conflicts a big word between Thailand and China. 

If so, Thailand wouldn't cooperate with China for these railway projects back then. 
If so, why SRT bought so many locomotive for meter gauge from China and CRRC passengers sleeping car?


Fact is that both China and Thailand invest hugely in Each way back 90's and China is also the biggest trading partner with Thailand. 

No matter in Robinson or some small 20 baht shop, how many products are made in China. Thai Durain biggest export market is China. All the imported Fruit in China, there are 40% come from Thailand alone. 

The relationship between the two countries can even date back to Ayutthaya dynasty in 14th century. Not mentioning that princess Sirindhorn speaks fluently Mardarin Chinese.

Cooperation and win win is main topic rather than the differences.


----------



## Codename B

mabo.univ said:


> Serious Interest conflicts a big word between Thailand and China.
> 
> If so, Thailand wouldn't cooperate with China for these railway projects back then.
> If so, why SRT bought so many locomotive for meter gauge from China and CRRC passengers sleeping car?
> 
> 
> Fact is that both China and Thailand invest hugely in Each way back 90's and China is also the biggest trading partner with Thailand.
> 
> No matter in Robinson or some small 20 baht shop, how many products are made in China. Thai Durain biggest export market is China. All the imported Fruit in China, there are 40% come from Thailand alone.
> 
> The relationship between the two countries can even date back to Ayutthaya dynasty in 14th century. Not mentioning that princess Sirindhorn speaks fluently Mardarin Chinese.
> 
> Cooperation and win win is main topic rather than the differences.


What win-win is there with China, when they want to use their own workers, materials and lands on both side of the track.

Oh you mean win-win just like Laos-China railway right? Where Chinese goods and produce are shipped to Laos daily, while Lao goods are rarely transported to China, and fresh produce is not carried at all.

Where Chinese government-owned companies hold a 70 percent stake in the rail project and a Lao state company holds the remaining 30 percent.

_“Laos is up to its eyeballs in Chinese loans for mega infrastructure projects including hydro-electricity dams and its first railway link that opened last year.

Debt has climbed to a dizzying US$13.3 billion - almost three quarters of gross domestic product.”_

Because of this, Laos also owe China 2/3 of its annual economic output. 









Long queues for petrol stations as fuel crisis hits Laos


BANGKOK: Long lines of motorists queuing for petrol have been snaking through the streets of Vientiane in recent days as Laos struggles with a growing fuel crisis. Some parts of the reclusive communist nation have been suffering shortages for weeks, according to state media, but on Monday (May...




www.channelnewsasia.com












Government of Laos Seeks Way Out of Fuel Crisis - Laotian Times


The Government of Laos is seeking solutions to the fuel crisis, including finding ways to access the foreign currency desperately needed to bail out fuel importers.




laotiantimes.com












Beijing’s zero-COVID policy snags Lao exports to China via new railway


The Laos-China Railway is expected to reduce transportation costs, but the pandemic is delaying the benefits.




www.rfa.org


----------



## mabo.univ

Codename B said:


> What win-win is there with China, when they want to use their own workers, materials and lands on both side of the track.
> 
> Oh you mean win-win just like Laos-China railway right? Where Chinese goods and produce are shipped to Laos daily, while Lao goods are rarely transported to China, and fresh produce is not carried at all.
> 
> Where Chinese government-owned companies hold a 70 percent stake in the rail project and a Lao state company holds the remaining 30 percent.
> 
> _“Laos is up to its eyeballs in Chinese loans for mega infrastructure projects including hydro-electricity dams and its first railway link that opened last year.
> 
> Debt has climbed to a dizzying US$13.3 billion - almost three quarters of gross domestic product.”_
> 
> Because of this, Laos also owe China 2/3 of its annual economic output.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Long queues for petrol stations as fuel crisis hits Laos
> 
> 
> BANGKOK: Long lines of motorists queuing for petrol have been snaking through the streets of Vientiane in recent days as Laos struggles with a growing fuel crisis. Some parts of the reclusive communist nation have been suffering shortages for weeks, according to state media, but on Monday (May...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.channelnewsasia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Government of Laos Seeks Way Out of Fuel Crisis - Laotian Times
> 
> 
> The Government of Laos is seeking solutions to the fuel crisis, including finding ways to access the foreign currency desperately needed to bail out fuel importers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> laotiantimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beijing’s zero-COVID policy snags Lao exports to China via new railway
> 
> 
> The Laos-China Railway is expected to reduce transportation costs, but the pandemic is delaying the benefits.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rfa.org


RFA frequently made certain facts with anonymous sources which make the reportage reliability very questionable.

If you claim laos fresh products never made it to China. How is that possible Kaocharoen in Thailand export fresh coconut and durian to China recently?

There is strict customs protocol from China side. No doubt about it. I even see the LCR attendance wears hazmet suit until recently. You can argue practically of this regulation. But rules is rules. The Japanese fruit importer have similar rules about fruit bio hazard and freshness which is even stricter. Japanese company even sent their inspector to the field. Take pineapple for example, once there is heavy raining on the pineapple, their contract is automatically canceled. 

LCR during is building period did hire local workers. However these employers enter varies on specific requirements, such as qualifications and languages abilities, education etc. 

Right now, LCR is on its operation period. It Hire even more employees, such as train driver, attendance, technician, controller, cargo planner, passenger service, security, facility keeping staff, cook etc. These staff not only make monthly salary, they also receive professional training. So is it a loss for Laos

Where do you mean by LCR taking the land along the track?

Do you mean LCR do farming along the railway track?

Comparing the meter gauge in Thailand, it occupy more land. 

Please let me point out the differences, 

LCr is a separated subgraded railway which consist underpass and overpass, also fully fenced.
There are high standards drainage system, cover by retaining walls, certain section equipped with noise barrier. car, automatic blocking, computer controlled systems, electrified 25kv, signaling, electronics substation etc. All these facilities do require more land than Thai meter gauge. Does it make some sense?

Right now China is cooperating with Thailand on HSR. Transfer the expertise, training the railway major student in Khon Kaen university. Thai students generally respect teachers. Isn't wired for Thai people criticize their Chinese teachers while receiving training?? Especially Thailand railway is still outdated at this stage?


----------



## mabo.univ

Ok. I have to admit that It is China's mistakes that Laos don't have oil under its ground. 555


----------



## Codename B

mabo.univ said:


> RFA frequently made certain facts with anonymous sources which make the reportage reliability very questionable.


Yes, we should read something like Xinhua and China Daily instead, because those are not biased at all.



mabo.univ said:


> If you claim laos fresh products never made it to China. How is that possible Kaocharoen in Thailand export fresh coconut and durian to China recently?


Your reading comprehension is still just as lacking as ever. I never claim, it is from the people interviewed in the article and also it specifically said *rarely* which does not mean *never*. Also they are talking about *Lao products*, and *not Thai products* 🤦🏻‍♂️



mabo.univ said:


> Where do you mean by LCR taking the land along the track?
> 
> Do you mean LCR do farming along the railway track?
> 
> Comparing the meter gauge in Thailand, it occupy more land.


They demanded that on Thai-China HSR, reread what I wrote again.



mabo.univ said:


> Please let me point out the differences,
> 
> LCr is a separated subgraded railway which consist underpass and overpass, also fully fenced.
> There are high standards drainage system, cover by retaining walls, certain section equipped with noise barrier. car, automatic blocking, computer controlled systems, electrified 25kv, signaling, electronics substation etc. All these facilities do require more land than Thai meter gauge. Does it make some sense?


I don’t understand what you are trying to tell here, it’s not about the space the railway occupy. I am talking about they (China) wanted land on both side of the Thai-China HSR tracks, mainly around the stations to build stuff there on their own. Think buildings, commercial areas and also they wanted 99 years lease on the land too. Which is absurd.



mabo.univ said:


> Right now China is cooperating with Thailand on HSR. Transfer the expertise, training the railway major student in Khon Kaen university. Thai students generally respect teachers. Isn't wired for Thai people criticize their Chinese teachers while receiving training?? Especially Thailand railway is still outdated at this stage?


What have this anything of relevant here? Other than you want to take a jab on Thai railway (which is obviously outdated). Who are criticizing these “Chinese teacher”, we are talking about the unfavorable condition for Thailand, which China had proposed. It took several meetings with China, before both could come into an agreement, where Thailand is not at an advantage. The training of Thai staffs and technology transfers was one of the demand from the Thai side!

In your mind, I guess you just want Thailand to build it quick like Laos, but everything built and mostly owned by China. And Thailand are not alllowed to criticize them either, because Thai railway is outdated, so better keep the mouth shut and accept it. And when it’s done. Most of the profit will go to China. Win-win condition right?


----------



## Codename B

mabo.univ said:


> Ok. I have to admit that It is China's mistakes that Laos don't have oil under its ground. 555


You are confused with your own inability to read and understand. That’s all.


----------



## mabo.univ

Codename B said:


> Yes, we should read something like Xinhua and China Daily instead, because those are not biased at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Your reading comprehension is still just as lacking as ever. I never claim, it is from the people interviewed in the article and also it specifically said *rarely* which does not mean *never*. Also they are talking about *Lao products*, and *not Thai products* 🤦🏻‍♂️
> 
> go back your post 1284, you said in your posting that Laos Fresh product do not go to China at all. did you read what what you have argued?
> 
> 
> 
> They demanded that on Thai-China HSR, reread what I wrote again.
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t understand what you are trying to tell here, it’s not about the space the railway occupy. I am talking about they (China) wanted land on both side of the Thai-China HSR tracks, mainly around the stations to build stuff there on their own. Think buildings, commercial areas and also they wanted 99 years lease on the land too. Which is absurd.
> 
> 
> Codename B said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are confused with your own inability to read and understand. That’s all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What have this anything of relevant here? Other than you want to take a jab on Thai railway (which is obviously outdated). Who are criticizing these “Chinese teacher”, we are talking about the unfavorable condition for Thailand, which China had proposed. It took several meetings with China, before both could come into an agreement, where Thailand is not at an advantage. The training of Thai staffs and technology transfers was one of the demand from the Thai side!
> 
> In your mind, I guess you just want Thailand to build it quick like Laos, but everything built and mostly owned by China. And Thailand are not alllowed to criticize them either, because Thai railway is outdated, so better keep the mouth shut and accept it. And when it’s done. Most of the profit will go to China. Win-win condition right?
Click to expand...


----------



## mabo.univ

Codename B said:


> You are confused with your own inability to read and understand. That’s all.


what is your logic here? if China allow Thai Fresh products enter, why China do not allow Laotian Fresh product enter?


----------



## Codename B

mabo.univ said:


> go back your post 1284, you said in your posting that Laos Fresh product do not go to China at all. did you read what what you have argued





mabo.univ said:


> what is your logic here? if China allow Thai Fresh products enter, why China do not allow Laotian Fresh product enter?


If you had read the article that I had provided in my previous post, they had clearly explained why. 

But let me make it extra easy for you.

_*“Most Lao produce, including bananas and watermelons, haven’t been transported by train to China yet because these agricultural products are perishable, and the train containers are too hot for them,” the official said.

Only some dried agricultural products from Laos, such as rubber, cassava and soil from Laos, can be exported by land to China via the railway, he said.*_









Beijing’s zero-COVID policy snags Lao exports to China via new railway


The Laos-China Railway is expected to reduce transportation costs, but the pandemic is delaying the benefits.




www.rfa.org





And here‘s a recent article in Thai, concerning Thai fresh product to China.









มช.เผยรถไฟจีน-ลาวไม่พร้อมขนทุเรียน เหตุลานเปลี่ยนถ่ายยกตู้สู่รถหัวลากทำได้น้อย


มช.เผยรถไฟจีน-ลาวไม่พร้อมขนทุเรียน เหตุลานเปลี่ยนถ่ายยกตู้จากรถไฟสู่รถหัวลากทำได้เพียงครั้งละ 9 คันรถ รับรถไฟได้แค่วันละขบวน แนะผู้ส่งออกเลี่ยงเส้นทางบก




www.prachachat.net





The article said Lao-China railway are not ready to transport durian. They can only transfer 9 carriages from trains to trucks, and only once per day.

For the export of fresh fruit products from Thailand to China. It is found that the Mohan Railway Customs Checkpoint which is one of the fruit imports under The “Protocol on the Transport of Fresh Fruits Through Third Countries” between Thailand and China is not yet ready to operate. It is expected to be ready to open in late August 2022, later than the original schedule in May. *The aforementioned situation has therefore prevented the Lao-China railway to be used as the main route for Thai fruit transportation.*


----------



## mabo.univ

Back to 2015-2017, Thailand would like China to be the main investor of Northeastern HSR, which accounted for 60 -70 percents of the whole project, in this case,China can not expect a fair financial returns? 

If it is HSR, passenger ridership are the main source of income, unfortunately lots of HSR need government subsidies which Thailand are unable or unwilling to commit. 

Look at what happens to Northern HSR, it was the same story, Japan can not invest in a project as a major investor without a complete financial plan. 

It is not how the things work out. Stop being Childish and naive. 

Thailand and China are partners, not zero-sum relationship. Any agreement has to be made by both parties. Both parties has to be beneficiary and winner. So simple is that.


----------



## Codename B

mabo.univ said:


> Back to 2015-2017, Thailand would like China to be the main investor of Northeastern HSR, which accounted for 60 -70 percents of the whole project, in this case,China can not expect a fair financial returns?


One must be really dumb to accept such a condition by China. 99 years lease, right of land developments along the line, using their materials and workers and with no technology transfers to name a few.

Also, Thailand offered many types of partnership with China, 70:30, 60:40, 50:50 and so on. They (China) declined every proposals.



mabo.univ said:


> Look at what happens to Northern HSR, it was the same story, Japan can not invest in a project as a major investor without a complete financial plan.


Thailand have made it perfectly clear that Thai HSR main source of income are from land developments along the stations. That is why the eastern line is doing PPP.



mabo.univ said:


> Look at what happens to Northern HSR, it was the same story, Japan can not invest in a project as a major investor without a complete financial plan.


FYI the study and financial plan was done by Japan JICA. But Japan only want to be the provider of loan, not an invester of the rail. Before you assume something, get some facts in first.



mabo.univ said:


> It is not how the things work out. Stop being Childish and naive.
> 
> Thailand and China are partners, not zero-sum relationship. Any agreement has to be made by both parties. Both parties has to be beneficiary and winner. So simple is that.


You’re the naive one here. Why did you think it took so long before each parties could come to an agreement. In the end both countries agreed to the conditions and are satisfied with it.


----------



## mabo.univ

Codename B said:


> One must be really dumb to accept such a condition by China. 99 years lease, right of land developments along the line, using their materials and workers and with no technology transfers to name a few.
> 
> Also, Thailand offered many types of partnership with China, 70:30, 60:40, 50:50 and so on. They (China) declined every proposals.
> 
> 
> 
> Thailand have made it perfectly clear that Thai HSR main source of income are from land developments along the stations. That is why the eastern line is doing PPP.
> 
> 
> 
> FYI the study and financial plan was done by Japan JICA. But Japan only want to be the provider of loan, not an invester of the rail. Before you assume something, get some facts in first.
> 
> 
> 
> You’re the naive one here. Why did you think it took so long before each parties could come to an agreement. In the end both countries agreed to the conditions and are satisfied with it.


your points confused me. one side you said China should not get the land lease. the other side you say the main source of income is from the the land developments along the stations. So which one is correct?

I said very clearly Japan did not want to invest in HSR, So, why Thailand did not take the loan and started to build it?

The main issue is not who build it. it is the never ending land expropriation, legal battle and inefficient government coordination holding the project back. No contractor can do a better job if they can not enter the building site.

It seems the Indonesian HSR is being built at a timely manner which is using Chinese System, how is that not possible in Thailand?


----------



## Codename B

mabo.univ said:


> your points confused me. one side you said China should not get the land lease. the other side you say the main source of income is from the the land developments along the stations. So which one is correct?


What is there even to confuse? China should in no circumstances get any right to land lease for 99 years. And Thailand is gonna develop the land along the stations itself. They (China) are not here to build and own the line for themselves. They are here to sell their technology and trains. Come on.



mabo.univ said:


> I said very clearly Japan did not want to invest in HSR, So, why Thailand did not take the loan and started to build it?


I think I explained clearly to you once that the Thai Gov is prioritizing northeastern and eastern HSR, since the investment returns are higher than the northern HSR.



mabo.univ said:


> The main issue is not who build it. it is the never ending land expropriation, legal battle and inefficient government coordination holding the project back. No contractor can do a better job if they can not enter the building site.
> 
> It seems the Indonesian HSR is being built at a timely manner which is using Chinese System, how is that not possible in Thailand?


Look at the conditions of the Indonesian HSR, and you will get the answer. It’s 70:30 using Chinese loan.

Also the Indonesian HSR officially started in 2016 with land expropriation, while the Thai northeastern HSR was officially launched by the Thai government in October 2020. In that time Indonesian HSR progress was more than 40%.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_railway_in_Indonesia


----------



## kunming tiger

Both projects in both countries are still moving forward that's a positive.


----------



## mabo.univ

Codename B said:


> What is there even to confuse? China should in no circumstances get any right to land lease for 99 years. And Thailand is gonna develop the land along the stations itself. They (China) are not here to build and own the line for themselves. They are here to sell their technology and trains. Come on.
> 
> 
> 
> I think I explained clearly to you once that the Thai Gov is prioritizing northeastern and eastern HSR, since the investment returns are higher than the northern HSR.
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the conditions of the Indonesian HSR, and you will get the answer. It’s 70:30 using Chinese loan.
> 
> Also the Indonesian HSR officially started in 2016 with land expropriation, while the Thai northeastern HSR was officially launched by the Thai government in October 2020. In that time Indonesian HSR progress was more than 40%.
> 
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_railway_in_Indonesia


So why the imperialist invest in Indonesia HSR, not in Thailand. 

Is it simply because of ridership projection is higher than Thailand?

However from geopolitical point of view, Thailand seems far more important than for Indonesia from Chinese prospective.

My conclusion is that China refuse to co-invest in Thailand HSR is pure economic


----------



## Codename B

mabo.univ said:


> So why the imperialist invest in Indonesia HSR, not in Thailand.
> 
> Is it simply because of ridership projection is higher than Thailand?
> 
> However from geopolitical point of view, Thailand seems far more important than for Indonesia from Chinese prospective.
> 
> My conclusion is that China refuse to co-invest in Thailand HSR is pure economic


Even with all those links provided, you still don’t understand anything and just say things without thinking. They want to invest, but Thailand could not accept those conditions. I feel like I’m just repeating myself here again and again. 

You should just stop with your “conclusion“ that is nothing more than assumptions. How many times have you said stuff here that are outright wrong. Even given facts you still ramble on and on.


----------



## kunming tiger

The sooner they finish both projects thje better as it serves the public interest else they might face the same fate as Nordstream 2.


----------



## mabo.univ

Codename B said:


> Even with all those links provided, you still don’t understand anything and just say things without thinking. They want to invest, but Thailand could not accept those conditions. I feel like I’m just repeating myself here again and again.
> 
> You should just stop with your “conclusion“ that is nothing more than assumptions. How many times have you said stuff here that are outright wrong. Even given facts you still ramble on and on.


I have read all the previous link and thread that I can find. All the facts support my point. If you do not agree with my conclusion, would you give your conclusion please?


----------



## Codename B

mabo.univ said:


> I have read all the previous link and thread that I can find. All the facts support my point. If you do not agree with my conclusion, would you give your conclusion please?


What point? Even the conclusion that you said that China didn’t want to co-invest was wrong.
How can someone who have read come to this conclusion. Either you are just trolling or have difficulty understanding stuff.


----------



## mabo.univ

Suppose, you are middle income person who wanna buy a BMW car in Thailand, however you don't have enough cash for the car. You wanna get a loan from the bank. 

The bank will certainly ask for your previous bank statement, your income certificate, even you have to mortage your other property. Or ask for a credible person as a guarantor. Bank need to make sure you can pay the debts back. Isn't it?

The same rules is also valid for foreign investment and loans.


----------



## Codename B

mabo.univ said:


> Suppose, you are middle income person who wanna buy a BMW car in Thailand, however you don't have enough cash for the car. You wanna get a loan from the bank.
> 
> The bank will certainly ask for your previous bank statement, your income certificate, even you have to mortage your other property. Or ask for a credible person as a guarantor. Bank need to make sure you can pay the debts back. Isn't it?
> 
> The same rules is also valid for foreign investment and loans.


Except you can just borrow from your own family in the house. Also the bank doesn’t come and take your garage, once you get the car 😂

I hope you never make any business decision for other people except for your own.


----------



## mabo.univ

Codename B said:


> What point? Even the conclusion that you said that China didn’t want to co-invest was wrong.
> How can someone who have read come to this conclusion. Either you are just trolling or have difficulty understanding stuff.


I just engage with you for a discussion which. Your rudeness and name calling behavior can not strengthen your opinion in any meaningful way. 

The ignorance in the business rules and so-called patriotism will not make this country properly progress, rather to hold her back.


----------



## Codename B

mabo.univ said:


> I just engage with you for a discussion which. Your rudeness and name calling behavior can not strengthen your opinion in any meaningful way.
> 
> The ignorance in the business rules and so-called patriotism will not make this country properly progress, rather to hold her back.


I guess all the facts and links I had provided to you also didn’t make you any smarter. Because you’re just rambling on stuff that are already explained several times here and just can’t move on for some reason.

All the ignorant stuff that you’d said here, I have provided with facts that proved otherwise, still you goes on and on. What have you provided to support these “conslusions” of yours? Any article? Nothing.

Are there more you want to get out of your chest?

Both countries had already made their agreement and are satisfied with it. So don’t really understand what you want. To give China 99 years lease and lands along the stations?



mabo.univ said:


> The ignorance in the business rules and so-called patriotism will not make this country properly progress, rather to hold her back.


Nor will stupid business decisions.


----------



## mabo.univ

Codename B said:


> Except you can just borrow from your own family in the house. Also the bank doesn’t come and take your garage, once you get the car 😂
> 
> I hope you never make any business decision for other people except for your own.


From which family member Thailand can borrow billions of USD from without paying interests and guarantee free?


----------



## Codename B

mabo.univ said:


> From which family member Thailand can borrow billions of USD from without paying interests and guarantee free?


Did I say that they don‘t pay interest?


----------



## mabo.univ

Codename B said:


> Did I say that they don‘t pay interest?


So, let me rephrase my question that from which family member you can borrow billions of dollars from?


----------



## mabo.univ

kunming tiger said:


> The sooner they finish both projects thje better as it serves the public interest else they might face the same fate as Nordstream 2.


I personally desperately wanna use it to visit my family in Issan. how sooner it can be done and how successful the HSR project can be are two different things.

Looking back these major project like"Hopewell" and Betong airport. Both are failed in a dramatic way which become reputation damage. From Planning to execution, Thailand need to be cautious and realistic in this regards 

No matter how much I expect to sit on this HSR. It has to be economic feasible and operational success. The huge potential financial losses is the least thing that I want.


----------



## Codename B

mabo.univ said:


> So, let me rephrase my question that from which family member you can borrow billions of dollars from?


You made an analogy and comparing it to taking a loan from the bank to buy a car, now why would TH do that and take those disadvataged terms by the bank (China), when they can just borrow it from within the country (family member), in this case Thai banks. And here’s the catch, Thai bank not gonna take the garage (land along the stations) from start and even if the HSR fail, it will still belong to Thai bank and not foreign companies?



mabo.univ said:


> No matter how much I expect to sit on this HSR. It has to be economic feasible and operational success. The huge potential financial losses is the least thing that I want.


Are you not contradicting yourself here with feasibility and operation success, when you want TH to accept China’s terms? Operation success for who? China?


----------



## mabo.univ

Codename B said:


> You made an analogy and comparing it to taking a loan from the bank to buy a car, now why would TH do that and take those disadvataged terms by the bank (China), when they can just borrow it from within the country (family member), in this case Thai banks. And here’s the catch, Thai bank not gonna take the garage (land along the stations) from start and even if the HSR fail, it will still belong to Thai bank and not foreign companies?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you not contradicting yourself here with feasibility and operation success, when you want TH to accept China’s terms? Operation success for who? China?


Please talk truth between each other. Don't pretend to be live as an alien by not knowing how things work out in Thailand. 

If it's so easy to pull out the operation without creating the budget blackhole. Why the CP led consortium get the most profitable Eastern HSR project instead of SRT?

If you enjoy seeing Thailand stuck in medium income trap and continue to be Polarized within the different regions. You can continue demonize the foreign investors.


----------



## mabo.univ

Codename B said:


> You made an analogy and comparing it to taking a loan from the bank to buy a car, now why would TH do that and take those disadvataged terms by the bank (China), when they can just borrow it from within the country (family member), in this case Thai banks. And here’s the catch, Thai bank not gonna take the garage (land along the stations) from start and even if the HSR fail, it will still belong to Thai bank and not foreign companies?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you not contradicting yourself here with feasibility and operation success, when you want TH to accept China’s terms? Operation success for who? China?


Thailand Bank Lending Rate was reported at *5.415 % pa in Mar 2022*.
If gov really take laons from the domestic bank, it higher interest in the end
Please correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## Codename B

mabo.univ said:


> Thailand Bank Lending Rate was reported at *5.415 % pa in Mar 2022*.
> If gov really take laons from the domestic bank, it higher interest in the end
> Please correct me if I am wrong.


Interest rate is 1.5-1.6%. The loan is 85% domestic loan and 15% foreign loan.









ชงครม.เคาะลงนามสัญญาไฮสปีดไทย-จีน 5 หมื่นล้านกู้ดอลลาร์ฯ 85%


'ศักดิ์สยาม' ส่งหนังสือถึงจีน นัดประชุม JC ครั้งที่ 28 หารือกำหนดอัตราแลกเปลี่ยน และวันลงนามสัญญา ธปท.แนะเลือกกู้สกุลดอลลาร์สหรัฐ ทำ Forward Rate




www.posttoday.com







mabo.univ said:


> Please talk truth between each other. Don't pretend to be live as an alien by not knowing how things work out in Thailand.
> 
> If it's so easy to pull out the operation without creating the budget blackhole. Why the CP led consortium get the most profitable Eastern HSR project instead of SRT?
> 
> If you enjoy seeing Thailand stuck in medium income trap and continue to be Polarized within the different regions. You can continue demonize the foreign investors.


Maybe because it‘s a PPP project and they won the bidding? And SRT already have their hands full in northeastern line. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Nobody is demonizing “foreign investors“. We’re talking about the unfavorable terms given by China, which you are so keen to support for some reason.

I don’t understand why is it that hard for you to understand.


----------



## mabo.univ

Codename B said:


> Interest rate is 1.5-1.6%. The loan is 85% domestic loan and 15% foreign loan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ชงครม.เคาะลงนามสัญญาไฮสปีดไทย-จีน 5 หมื่นล้านกู้ดอลลาร์ฯ 85%
> 
> 
> 'ศักดิ์สยาม' ส่งหนังสือถึงจีน นัดประชุม JC ครั้งที่ 28 หารือกำหนดอัตราแลกเปลี่ยน และวันลงนามสัญญา ธปท.แนะเลือกกู้สกุลดอลลาร์สหรัฐ ทำ Forward Rate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.posttoday.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe because it‘s a PPP project and they won the bidding? And SRT already have their hands full in northeastern line. 🤷🏻‍♂️
> 
> Nobody is demonizing “foreign investors“. We’re talking about the unfavorable terms given by China, which you are so keen to support for some reason.
> 
> I don’t understand why is it that hard for you to understand.


Your article do support my previous point that Government did not have enough budget for HSR. 

PPP projects also means that government did have enough funding for Eastern HSR and unwilling to commit extra financial risks.

However Thai gov borrow in USD terms, interest rate was lower back then, the interest rate right now is more or less 3 percents, Not mentioning that Thai baht has devalued 12% comparing with 2019. Which means Thai gov need to pay more than 2019 unless the loan contract explicitly said it was fixed interest rate.


----------



## Codename B

mabo.univ said:


> Your article do support my previous point that Government did not have enough budget for HSR.
> 
> PPP projects also means that government did have enough funding for Eastern HSR and unwilling to commit extra financial risks.
> 
> However Thai gov borrow in USD terms, interest rate was lower back then, the interest rate right now is more or less 3 percents, Not mentioning that Thai baht has devalued 12% comparing with 2019. Which means Thai gov need to pay more than 2019 unless the loan contract explicitly said it was fixed interest rate.


This line cost is about $5,9 billion USD, which is equivalent to the cost of two mass transit lines in BKK or about 1,13% of Thai GDP.

85% of the project will be financed with internal debt denominated in Thai baht, with the rest 15% raised as external debt denominated in U.S. dollars. I’m not sure, if it’s fixed interest rate, however the eastern HSR line has a fixed interest rate, so I’m assuming this one might be too.


----------



## Codename B

*For comparison the terms of Lao-China railway*

1. Laos owes China $5 billion in this project. Laos GDP is only $20 billion USD (2022).

2. Guaranteed by 5 Lao mines.

3. Lose land to China, 50 meters per side, or 100 meters on both sides, along the railway line.

4. High interest loan of 3%

5. China owns 70%, Laos owns 30%. if Laos can't pay off the loan. China will own all of them. But Laos still has to pay interest on the loan.

6. Construction uses Chinese engineers, technicians, as well as workers. All Chinese. Lao workers have no part in the construction.

7. Construction company is a Chinese company. The consulting company is Chinese. Laos does not have the right to inspect the construction in any way.

8. Lao loan debt along with this project is $5 billion. Laos has to bear additional loan debt to operate. Laos has to pay off the loan in dollars only.

9. In the future, if Laos is unable to pay off debts for railway construction loans. Laos has to compensate as China demands, for example, having to give land concessions in Laos for 99-500 years to compensate China.

10. Since the start of construction until the construction is completed. Laos needs to expel the local Lao people by any means to hand over construction land to China, and Lao people have no right to enter the construction area.

Source:




__





à¸„à¸“à¸°à¸›à¸£à¸°à¸Šà¸²à¸Šà¸™ à¹€à¸¢à¸²à¸§à¸Šà¸™à¸›à¸¥à¸”à¹à¸à¸ Free YOUTH and PEOPLE | à¸à¸±à¸™à¸™à¸µà¹‰à¹€à¸‡à¸·ˆà¸à¸™à¹„à¸‚à¹ƒà¸™à¸à¸²à¸£à¸à¹ˆà¸à¸ªà¸£à¹‰à¸²à¸‡







www.facebook.com





*Are these the terms that you want for Thailand too?*

Extra info
11. Lao railway is only single track with trains operating at 160km/h only.

12. Lao had sold their National Power Grid to China to manage for 25 years. So it’s not hard to imagine what they would do, if they can’t pay off their Lao-China railway debts.









Laos Grants 25-Year Power Grid Concession to Chinese-Majority Firm


The deal will deepen China’s involvement in the Lao government’s goal of transforming itself into the “battery of Southeast Asia.”



thediplomat.com


----------



## mabo.univ

Codename B said:


> This line cost is about $5,9 billion USD, which is equivalent to the cost of two mass transit lines in BKK or about 1,13% of Thai GDP.
> 
> 85% of the project will be financed with internal debt denominated in Thai baht, with the rest 15% raised as external debt denominated in U.S. dollars. I’m not sure, if it’s fixed interest rate, however the eastern HSR line has a fixed interest rate, so I’m assuming this one might be too.


According to Bangkok Bank, the minimum loan rate is above 5.25 percent, however it is almost impossible for ordinary Thai people to get it. 

I understand it is a national project that government has voucher for this loan. 

If the HSR suffered losses,So does the Thai Bank.


----------



## mabo.univ

Codename B said:


> *For comparison the terms of Lao-China railway*
> 
> 1. Laos owes China $5 billion in this project. Laos GDP is only $20 billion USD (2022).
> 
> 2. Guaranteed by 5 Lao mines.
> 
> 3. Lose land to China, 50 meters per side, or 100 meters on both sides, along the railway line.
> 
> 4. High interest loan of 3%
> 
> 5. China owns 70%, Laos owns 30%. if Laos can't pay off the loan. China will own all of them. But Laos still has to pay interest on the loan.
> 
> 6. Construction uses Chinese engineers, technicians, as well as workers. All Chinese. Lao workers have no part in the construction.
> 
> 7. Construction company is a Chinese company. The consulting company is Chinese. Laos does not have the right to inspect the construction in any way.
> 
> 8. Lao loan debt for only this project is $5 billion when it is launched. Laos has to bear additional loan debt to operate. Laos has to pay off the loan in dollars only.
> 
> 9. In the future, if Laos is unable to pay off debts for railway construction loans. Laos has to compensate as China demands, for example, having to give land concessions in Laos for 99-500 years to compensate China.
> 
> 10. Since the start of construction until the construction is completed. Laos needs to expel the local Lao people by any means to hand over construction land to China, and Lao people have no right to enter the construction area.
> 
> Source:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> à¸„à¸“à¸°à¸›à¸£à¸°à¸Šà¸²à¸Šà¸™ à¹€à¸¢à¸²à¸§à¸Šà¸™à¸›à¸¥à¸”à¹à¸à¸ Free YOUTH and PEOPLE | à¸à¸±à¸™à¸™à¸µà¹‰à¹€à¸‡à¸·ˆà¸à¸™à¹„à¸‚à¹ƒà¸™à¸à¸²à¸£à¸à¹ˆà¸à¸ªà¸£à¹‰à¸²à¸‡
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.facebook.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Are these the terms that you want for Thailand too?*
> 
> Extra info
> 11. Lao railway is only single track with trains operating at 160km/h only.
> 
> 12. Lao had sold their National Power Grid to China to manage for 25 years. So it’s not hard to imagine what they would do, if they can’t pay off their Lao-China railway debts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laos Grants 25-Year Power Grid Concession to Chinese-Majority Firm
> 
> 
> The deal will deepen China’s involvement in the Lao government’s goal of transforming itself into the “battery of Southeast Asia.”
> 
> 
> 
> thediplomat.com


The whole project costs 5.9 billion dollars, who is possible that Laos owe China 5 billion dollars, taking account that China invest more?

160km passenger and 120 km for cargo mixed rail is more profitable than passengers only railway,

Did you double check with these figures?


----------



## Codename B

mabo.univ said:


> The whole project costs 5.9 billion dollars, who is possible that Laos owe China 5 billion dollars, taking account that China invest more?
> 
> 160km passenger and 120 km for cargo mixed rail is more profitable than passengers only railway,
> 
> Did you double check with these figures?


I guess I wasn’t clear. What I meant is that, with this project, Lao owes China a total $5 billion.
Between 2008-2019, Laos signed a total of $5 billion in Chinese loans for more than a dozen infrastructure projects, such as dams and hydroelectricity generation.









Laos’ scenic railway built on mountain of Chinese debt


Laos opened a new $6 billion rail link with China to much fanfare this month, but analysts warn the party could be short-lived as the government grapples with a potential debt crisis.




www.bangkokpost.com





And Profit for who? When China owns 70%???

And how about the other terms? Or are you just gonna ignore them? Hello 👋🏻 



mabo.univ said:


> 160km passenger and 120 km for cargo mixed rail is more profitable than passengers only railway,


And Thailand is building nationwide double track railway for both passengers and cargo.


----------



## mabo.univ

Codename B said:


> I guess I wasn’t clear. What I meant is that, with this project, Lao owes China a total $5 billion.
> Between 2008-2019, Laos signed a total of $5 billion in Chinese loans for more than a dozen infrastructure projects, such as dams and hydroelectricity generation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laos’ scenic railway built on mountain of Chinese debt
> 
> 
> Laos opened a new $6 billion rail link with China to much fanfare this month, but analysts warn the party could be short-lived as the government grapples with a potential debt crisis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bangkokpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Profit for who? When China owns 70%???
> 
> And how about the other terms? Or are you just gonna ignore them? Hello 👋🏻
> 
> 
> 
> And Thailand is building nationwide double track railway for both passengers and cargo.


I have numerous evidence that your posting are either inaccurate or fake. The only advantages for SRT is easy to book the ticket, can buy snack onboard. However the safety and speed of Laos single track is superior than Thai double track. 

I am just curious where your claim come from? 

By comparing with diesel powered train and electrified train is just meaningless. We both know how it feels as passenger. No to mention the double track in Thailand is far from completion.


----------



## Wisarut

High Speed Rail Platform





















for all lines
Bang Sue Grand Station (Krung Thep Aphiwat Central Terminal)
Bangkok, Thailand









The Isan line to Khorat and Nong Khai will be the first to be in this platform to be opened in 2026 - 2027
Eastern line connecting three airport to U-Tapao via Pataya will be opened at Krung Thep Aphiwat Central Terminal in 2028 - 2029 due to the need to dig tunnel from Phyathai all the way to Bang Sue Grand Station (Krung Thep Aphiwat Central Terminal) .... Nobody would even dare to think about any construction above either Chitladda Palace and Chitladda Royal station while the old royal tuft club which will become the new park would have the giant statue of King Bhumibol
Northern line to Phitsanuloke and Chiang Mai will be at Krung Thep Aphiwat Central Terminal in 2032 - 2037 since Japanese government are not very busy to implement this line
Southern line to Hua Hin, Surat Thani and Padang Besar to be started in 2032 to 2042 due to the distance issue and the need to see the success of other high speed line. 




__ https://www.facebook.com/ERailsRoom/posts/220291236992211


----------



## Wisarut

Progress on Muak Lek tunnel for High Speed train to Khorat
Muak Lek Tunnel of High-speed rail Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima project is under construction. Total length of 3,465 m.



__ https://www.facebook.com/ProgressiveThailand/posts/543039527827711


----------



## Wisarut

Thai - China High Speed Line - from the EIA and other sources
Km.   Mi.   Stations
0     0     Bang Sue Grand Station สถานีกลางบางซื่อ
13.765      8.553       Don Meuang ดอนเมือง
37.350      23.208      Chiang Rak Noi เชียงรากน้อย (Chiang Rai Noy is not a real station but depot and maintenance center along with traffic control)
63.450      39.426      Ayutthaya อยุธยา
110.030     68.369      Saraburi สระบุรี
173.400     107.746     Pak Chong ปากช่อง
251.260     156.125     Nakhon Ratchasima นครราชสีมา - Maintenance Base and Station Yard at km 217.300

(EOL of Nakhon Ratchasima section behind Nakhon Ratchasima railway station is km 253.030075)
333.600     207.289     Bua Yai บัวใหญ่ - track maintenance at km 319.1
395.500     245.752     Ban Phai บ้านไผ่ - passing loop for cargo train at Mueang Phon km 365.00
437.500     271.849     Khon Kaen ขอนแก่น - passing loop for cargo train at Nong Meg km 419.400
553.900     344.177     Udon Thani อุดรธานี - track maintenance at 501.2 and passing loop for cargo train at Huay Sam Phat km 528.00
606.000     376.551     Nong Khai หนองคาย (Na Tha Depot is at km 602 while EOL of Nong Khai section is at the border line in the middle of the New Friendship Bridge at km 609.043259)



https://eia.onep.go.th/services/web//doc/download-eia?id=10139




https://eia.onep.go.th/services/web//doc/download-monitor?id=22906




http://www.otp.go.th/index.php/edureport/view?id=118




https://www.hsrkorat-nongkhai.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Fact-sheet-30012020.pdf




https://www.otp.go.th/uploads/tiny_uploads/ProjectOTP/2557/Project5/ReportExecutiveSumTH.pdf


https://www.otp.go.th/index.php/edureport/view?id=118&id=118


----------



## Wisarut

Progress on Section 4-6 of Thai - China High Speed train - Unique Engineering and Construction PCL has entered into construction area and set up the field office to handled the 31.60km section from Phra Kaew to Saraburi including 7.02 km at grade and 24,58 km elevated tracks.





__ https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1450453882124032&id=100014783023170


----------



## Wisarut

Progress on High Speed train construction from Muak Lek to Saraburi





Progress on High Speed train on Section 4-3 (Nava Nakhon - Ban Pho)



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=505900998129639



Progress on high Speed train from Rangsit to Saraburi via Ayutthaya


----------



## Wisarut

Now, Section 3-3 (Bundai Mah - Lam Takhong) of Bangkok - Khorat High Spped train has installed the segments for elevated section.



__ https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=193064746561208&id=100075730516124


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## Wisarut

Starting to clear the pipelines on Railway land by Index International Group PCL who is a contractor hired by Fuel Pipeline Transportation Limited (FPT) at 172.48 million Baht to clear the pipeline from Phyathai - Bang Sue - Klang Krung village to allow the construction of connection from Phyathai to Bang Sue Grand Central (now Krung Thep Apiwat) all the way to Donmueang



__ https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=167307899267262&id=100079641581769


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## Wisarut

Here is the latest news on 140.96 Rai (22.5536 hectares) of land around Makkasan Central to be transferred to CP All (Asia Era One Co., Ltd ) for TOD and set up Makkasan Smart City with mied use with Market Sounding on 30 November 2022








เปิดผัง 'มักกะสัน' 140ไร่ วางไกด์ไลน์พัฒนาให้ 'ซีพี'


สกพอ.เตรียมส่งมอบพื้นที่มักกะสัน140 ไร่ ดัน “ซีพี” ปั้นโครงการมิกซ์ยูสเมืองอัจฉริยะ หนุนประตูสู่อีอีซี เดินหน้าจัดมาร์เกตซาวดิ้งภาคเอกชน-ประชาชน 30 พ.ย.นี้ เช็คเสียงแผนผังการใช้ประโยชน์ที่ดิน




www.bangkokbiznews.com












เปิดพิมพ์เขียวพลิกโฉม "มักกะสัน" CP ทุ่มแสนล้านปั้นมิกซ์ยูส ศูนย์กลางธุรกิจ เกตเวย์ EEC


เปิดพิมพ์เขียวพลิกโฉม “มักกะสัน” CP ทุ่มแสน …




www.matichon.co.th







__ https://www.facebook.com/Thailand.Infra/posts/1565410020564138


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## Wisarut

Need to deal with delays by endless protests







from those local people along Thai China High Speed Train along with those defiant slum dwellers with reinforcements from those NGOS and owners of public utilities within railway land and the expropriated areas



__ https://www.facebook.com/TransportDailynews/posts/698716885038882


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## Wisarut

Department of Rail Transport along with Office of the National Economic and Social Development Council (NESDB), The Office of Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning (OTP), The Public Debt Management Office (PDMO), and State Railways of Thailand (SRT) asking Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism (MLIT), Japan Railway Construction, Transport and Technology Agency (JRTT), JICA and Embassy of Japan to speed up the studying on High Speed Rail to Phitsanuloke to be done in March 2023 before extending to Chiang Mai via Sukhothai with the following investment plans which Thai Government has come up with the following plan:
1. Krungthep Aphiwat Central Terminal [Bang Sue Grand Central] - Don Mueang - Ayutthaya - Lopburi - Nakhon Sawan - Phichit - Phitsanuloke (380 km) at 212 billion Baht (In 2017, the cost is 276,226 million Baht while in 2021, the cost is 261,754 million Baht)
2. Phitsanuloke - Sukhothai Srisatchanalai - Lampang - Lamphun - Chiang Mai (288 km) at 232 billion Baht
However, it is up to Japanese partners to come up with investment plans - either concession or loan to finance the project.

"กรมราง" ถก "ญี่ปุ่น" เร่งศึกษาลงทุนรถไฟความเร็วสูง "กรุงเทพฯ-เชียงใหม่" จบใน มี.ค. 66



__ https://www.facebook.com/DRT.OfficialFanpage/posts/454334906890977





__ https://www.facebook.com/TransportDailynews/posts/700647028179201


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## Wisarut

Need to start clearing the land along with slum dwellers and the infrastructures along with High Speed train from Nakhon Ratchasima to Nong Khai with total distance of 356 km (171 km elevated tracks and 185 km at grade with stations at Bua Yai, Ban Phai, Khon Kaen, Udonthani and Nong Khai - with the depot and Maintainace Center in Na Tha) with a price tag of 300 billion Baht in eary 2023 before calling a bidding for 13 contracts (12 civil works and 1 ECTS-2 signal installation) to handle the construction of the line to get the winners in December 2023 before sigining the contracts in early 2024 to get the line done in 2028. They have learnt the hard lesson from the first 14 contracts for the construction from Bang Sue Grand Central to Nakhoon Ratchasima with Covid19, endless protests, slum dwellers and infrastructure om the railway land. Once the whole system is done, the total distance from Krungthep Aphiwat Central Terminal to Nong Khai via Nakhon Ratchasima will be 609 km








ต้นปีหน้า! ชงบอร์ด รฟท. เคาะรถไฟไฮสปีด เฟส 2 รวม 13 สัญญา 3 แสนล้าน | เดลินิวส์


รฟท. เตรียมชงบอร์ด รฟท. เคาะรถไฟไฮสปีด เฟส 2 “นครราชสีมา-หนองคาย” 13 สัญญา 3 แสนล้าน ต้นปีหน้า ลุยประมูลได้ผู้ชนะปลายปี 66 เริ่มก่อสร้างปี 67 เปิดบริการปี 71 นำปัญหางานล่าช้าเฟส 1 มาปรับใช้ ต้นปีหน้าเร่งขับไล่ผู้บุรุก-รื้อย้ายสาธารณูปโภคให้จบ ก่อนเซ็นสัญญา




www.dailynews.co.th


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## Wisarut

Contract 4-4: Chiang Rak Noy Maintainance Center, the Main Maintainance center and traffic contro for both Thai - China High Speed Train (Krungthep Aphiwat Central Terminal - Nakhon Ratchasima - Nong Khai) and Thai - Japanese High Speed Train (Krungthep Aphiwat Central Terminal - Phitsanuloke - Chiang Mai)



__ https://www.facebook.com/chatchaysrt/posts/6023208284358175


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## Wisarut

Time to say farewell to Nakhon Ratchasima Railway station (the recent building have been opened on 24 June 1955) with the celebration from 21 to 25 December 2022 to allow the construction of Nakhon Ratchasima High Speed Train station which functioned as Nakhon Ratchasima Railway station for double tracking which will be elevated station for double tracking. 








รำลึก 122 ปี สถานีรถไฟโคราช ก่อนทุบทิ้งสร้างสถานีไฮสปีด


โคราช จัดรำลึกสถานีรถไฟประวัติศาสตร์ 122 ปี ร.5 ทรงเปิด …




www.matichon.co.th












อวสาน “สถานีรถไฟโคราช” ทุบทิ้งเตรียมรีโนเวทโฉมใหม่รองรับ “ไฮสปีดเทรน-รถไฟทางคู่” จัดงานรำลึก 122 ปี - EXECUTIVE ONLINE


ปิดฉากสถานีรถไฟเก่าแก่กลางเมืองย่าโม “สถานีรถไฟโคราช” ท […]




executivekorat.com







__ https://www.facebook.com/KoratForumSkyscrapercity/posts/5787578657987392


Time to clear the community around Nakhon Ratchasima Railway Station Yard to construct Nakhon Ratchasima High Speed train station




__ https://www.facebook.com/KoratForumSkyscrapercity/posts/5790881770990414


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## Wisarut

Progress on Section 4-7 (Saraburi - Kaeng Khoi including Saraburi station of High Speed train near Saraburi Government Complex)



__ https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=154898340623149&id=100083089519589



Progress on Section 4-73 (Nava nakhon - Ban Pho)



__ https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=154598120653171&id=100083089519589


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## Wisarut

Demolition of the old Nakhon Ratchasima Railway station at km263 which had been opened on 24 June 1955 will be started in February 2023 to make the way for the new Nakhon Ratchasima Railway station for both High Speed train and the 8-km elevated double track. Hope that it will be ready for service in 2026-27 while the extension to Nong Khai will be done in 2028 - 2029 








ปิดตำนาน 122 ปี เตรียมทุบทิ้ง “สถานีรถไฟโคราช”


“รฟท.” เตรียมทุบทิ้ง ตำนาน 122 ปี “สถานีรถไฟโคราช” เริ่มก.พ.66 เล็งสร้างสถานีใหม่ รองรับไฮสปีด-รถไฟทางคู่ หนุนผู้โดยสารใช้บริการเพิ่มขึ้น




www.thansettakij.com


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## Wisarut

Here is the plan for the new station building for Nakhon Ratchasima railway station to handle both high speed train







and existing local trains and intercity trains will become
https://www.facebook.com/groups/164027930945387/permalink/1095455934469244/?mibextid=S66gvF

Progress on High Speed train section 4-7 (Saraburi - Kaeng Khoi including station building for Saraburi High Speed train station


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## Wisarut

Naowarat Phatthanakar PCL Board of Directors have come to inspect the progress on Section 3-2 (Muak Lek tunnel - Lam Ta Khong tunnel) with the total distance of 12.23 km including
1. 1 km elevated track
2. 3 km at grade section 
3. about 8 km tunnel works including
3.1 Pha Sadet tunnel 0.274 km
3.2 Muak Lek tunnel 3.400 km
3.3 Hin Lap tunnel 0.162 km
3.4 Klong Phai tunnel 4.100 km 

It is a single tunnel with double track to allow the trains to pass at both direction with the height of 11.82 km and the width of 13.04 meter




__ https://www.facebook.com/Nawaratpatanakar/posts/573867578083353


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## Codename B

*Construction progress of the Thai-China High Speed Railway project Phase 1: Bangkok - Nakhon Ratchasima (253 km) - 16.30% (edited updated Dec)*

Red section is completed.
White sections are under construction.
Orange section are remaining contracts waiting for construction.









Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchatsima section consists of 14 contracts. Only 3 contracts have not yet been constructed.

These are:
Contract 4-1: Krungthep Aphiwat Central Terminal, Don Mueang. - Waiting to be built at the same time with Eastern HSR 3 airports project: Bangkok - U-Tapao.
Contract 4-5: Ban Pho - Phra Kaew. Waiting to study about the impact of HIA world heritage. Will be done in April 2023
Contract 3-1: Kaeng Koi- Klangdong and Pang Asok-Bandai Ma. Wait to open the auction next year.


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## Codename B

*Thai - China High Speed Railway project phase 2 - Nakhon Ratchasima - Nongkhai (356 km) is ready be presented for Cabinet approval in January-February 2023.*




__ https://www.facebook.com/TransportDailynews/posts/710786577165246



*Full list of infrastructure projects that will be presented for Cabinet approval in January - February are:*

High Speed Train Project Thai-China HSR Bangkok - Nong Khai, Phase 2: Nakhon Ratchasima - Nong Khai, with a distance of 356 km.
Red Line Suburban railway system extension project, Taling Chan - Siriraj section, with a distance of 5.7 km.
Red Line Suburban Railway Extension Project, Rangsit - Thammasat University, Rangsit Center, with a distance of 8.84 km.
Red Line Suburban railway system extension project, Taling Chan - Salaya section, a distance of 14.8 km.
Red Line Suburban Railway Extension Project, Bang Sue - Phaya Thai - Makkasan - Hua Mak section and Bang Sue - Hua Lamphong (Missing Link), with a distance of 25.9 km.
Double track railway project, Phase 2: Khon Kaen - Nong Khai, with a distance of 167 km.
Double track railway project, Phase 2, Pak Nam Pho - Den Chai section, with a distance of 285 km.
Double track railway project, Phase 2, Chira-Ubon Ratchathani Junction, with a distance of 308 km.
Intercity highway project (Motorway) No. 6 or M6, Bang Pa-in - Nakhon Ratchasima, a distance of 196 km. It will be proposed to approve the construction cost framework for all 16 sections that must be adjusted, which increases the budget by approximately 6,700 million baht, which is still within the limit of the cabinet. Approved in 2015.


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## Wisarut

Progress on Land Expropriation for High Speed train connecting three airports on 30 November 2022:
Suvannabhum - U-Tapao : 100% done since June 2022
Phyathai - Donmueang: 73.75% with a hope to transfer all the land plots in October 2023.



__ https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=685847816658866&id=101683141742006


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