# The true size of Osaka.What a beast!!!



## Nick (Sep 13, 2002)

Osaka is a massive city. Anyone who lives here would understand this first hand. Despite its huge size, there is considerable debate to how many people live there. In the city centre,which is quite small, there are only two million people. Ive seen population figures of between 10 and 20 million for its metropolitain area that includes Kyoto to Kobe and across to Nara. It acutually streches much further.But I guess you have to draw the line somewhere.

Here is a cut and paste from Osaka's city website.It gives the answer to what ive been looking for years.


Osaka Metropolitan Area 

Osaka forms an urban metropolis integrated with the rapid urbanization of the surrounding areas. The Osaka Metropolitan Area refers to the urban area closely related to Osaka geographically, socially and commercially. The area is undergoing a large growth in population, industry, and economic progress, and the industry, economy and citizens’ lifestyles cover a broad range of activities.
Basically, 128 municipalities including Osaka City constitute this area. 

The Osaka Metropolitan Area covers a total area of 7,800 square kilometers within a radius of about 50 to 60 km from the center of Osaka. The population totaled about 17 million as of 1995, making it one of the biggest metropolitan areas in the world.

Among these municipalities, 29 cities are located within a radius of approximately 20 km and are considered primary areas. They are closely related to Osaka City in the following aspects: straight-line distance, distance in time, continuous urban area, and population employed in Osaka City. In addition, 98 municipalities on the city outskirts are considered secondary areas.





Here's the same area on google.A bit patchy with all the photos, but you get the drift. This city is a monster.Notice how the urban areas go on beyond the picture .Japan is a crazy place.



Love it!!!!


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

I agree that Osaka's metro area is huge. Or to say, the whole Kansai area!


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## Nick (Sep 13, 2002)

True.

I wonder what the urban popluation of Kansai is?

From say...Omi Hachiman in Shiga to Bansho Ako in Hyogo.

It must be over 20 million


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## FREKI (Sep 27, 2005)

I remember being totally surprised this summer when I took the train from Osaka to Kyoto... the city never stopped 

Awesome place btw!


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

Is the metro Osaka region including Kobe and Kyoto usually? Or is it like NY and Philadelphia, where they just abut each other?


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## Nick in Atlanta (Nov 5, 2003)

@Nick: 15 million is the number that I've always seen used by reputable sources and they do include Kobe and Kyoto in that number.

For Metropolitan Tokyo I usually see a number around 25-27 million.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

Nick in Atlanta said:


> @Nick: 15 million is the number that I've always seen used by reputable sources and they do include Kobe and Kyoto in that number.
> 
> For Metropolitan Tokyo I usually see a number around 25-27 million.


This maybe true, but we have to keep in mind that the term "metropolitan area" means different things in different country's. In some country's it's not even based on commuting.

I don't know how Japan defines their metropolitan area's, I've tried looking into it, but most of the information is in Japanese of cause which is where I have to stop.

Osaka may have 15million using their current formular, but that maybe very different to how the U.S. measures and therefore can't be used as a direct comparison.

On the otherhand, for all I know, they may use the exact same formular. But I doubt that.


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

Kobe and Kyoto are always included in Osaka's Metro - and afaik the actual pop number is around 18mio (nearly the size of Sao Paulo). It's the second metro after Tokyo with approx. 36mio and an overbuild area of about 5000km2 - the largest in the world. There is a Japanese Urban Corridor similar to Boswash which includes nearly the whole southern/eastern coast of Honshu...


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## Nick in Atlanta (Nov 5, 2003)

The metro Osaka, Nagoya, Tokyo area must be pretty close to a continuous agglomeration. The population has got to be about 20 million for metro Osaka, 8 million for metro Nagoya and 36 million for metro Tokyo. Sixty-four million people is about half of Japan's population. It is amazing how much of this planet's GDP is produced in that 240 mile corridor!!


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## InitialD18 (Sep 17, 2002)

its so ambiguous though ... the definition of metropolis for different place ... 
as through your definition you basically can call the whole kansai area as one city/metro
its the same with the rhine metro area in germany ... 
or calling the whole pearl river delta as one metro ... 
or that whole eastern USA as one metro ... 

whereas metropolitan areas in Western country are most likely immediate 
urban expansion of its city ... usually suburbs without a different identity 
unlike that of kyoto-osaka-nara-kobe ... 
kyoto and kobe and nara are different cities and for me at least 
they aren't really urban expansion of osaka ... so calling it an area of osaka is like calling boston, new york and philly as one metro ... 
for me anyways its just hard in calling kyoto a part of osaka ... 

I see two different definition of metropolitan areas ...
one is the one you have suggested ... as a continuing urban space
the other is it must be an urban expansion of the city itself in this case
cities like kyoto, nara and kobe isn't an urban expansion of osaka ... 
however i do see your point in saying how these different cities 
urban areas intersects with each other ... 
but if one continous urban space is one metro area than in the future 
we are going to get kansai-kanto super metro ... yangtze-prd super metro
eastern USA super metro ... london-paris euro metro ... 

Interesting article neverless ... kansai is definitely my favorite area of japan ...


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## Rail Claimore (Sep 11, 2002)

The Kansai, Aichi/Chubu, and Kanto areas of Japan are each independently highly integrated and totally continuous within their respective areas. You cannot tell where Kobe ends and Osaka begins, or where Tokyo ends and Kawasaki/Yokohama begins... it's all continuous and unbroken within each of the three.

Now the three are separated by terrain: Nagoya and Tokyo are separated by the Japan Alps. Kansai and Nagoya are slightly more integrated... the only major city between the two agglomerations is Otsu, and the shinkansen between Nagoya and Kyoto takes about 40 minutes nonstop. They will eventually join together pretty easily.

Kanto as at least 42 million people in the urban area, although only 34-36 million are part of greater "Tokyo" which is the Southern/Eastern half of the Kanto plain. The Nagoya area is built on the second-largest area of flat land in Japan and has about 11-12 million people. Kansai has about 18 million people, and is probably the most densely populated of the three.


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

Japan has anyway only about 20% of flat land area where the whole pop has to fit in. The majority of the Japanese live in the southern-eastern coast of Honshu - I don't want to calculate the density now, but it must surpass Rhein-Ruhr, Boswash and Pearl River Delta...


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## Nick in Atlanta (Nov 5, 2003)

Rail Claimore said:


> The Kansai, Aichi/Chubu, and Kanto areas of Japan are each independently highly integrated and totally continuous within their respective areas. You cannot tell where Kobe ends and Osaka begins, or where Tokyo ends and Kawasaki/Yokohama begins... it's all continuous and unbroken within each of the three.
> 
> Now the three are separated by terrain: Nagoya and Tokyo are separated by the Japan Alps. Kansai and Nagoya are slightly more integrated... the only major city between the two agglomerations is Otsu, and the shinkansen between Nagoya and Kyoto takes about 40 minutes nonstop. They will eventually join together pretty easily.
> 
> Kanto as at least 42 million people in the urban area, although only 34-36 million are part of greater "Tokyo" which is the Southern/Eastern half of the Kanto plain. The Nagoya area is built on the second-largest area of flat land in Japan and has about 11-12 million people. Kansai has about 18 million people, and is probably the most densely populated of the three.



Very interesting. Amazing how Japan's three major metro areas are all on their own coastal plain. I'm surprised that Japan hasn't embarked on some sort of plain creation project. It would cost hundreds of billions of dollars and take years, but it would add an enourmous amount of living space for Japan's heavily concentrated population.

Also, how much of these plains are used by rice farmers, who somehow have an immense amount of power in the Japanese government?

Have anyone tried to determine what percentage of Japan's Gross Domestic Product is created, designed, etc, in these three metro areas, or the three combined? I can't make a numerical guess, but I would think it would be the third largest GDP in the world, after the US and the whole of Japan and ahead of Germany. Three metro areas with the GDP greater than a country like Germany. Truly amazing.


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## Rail Claimore (Sep 11, 2002)

Building plains in Japan would be prohibitively expensive as opposed to building highrises instead, which is the current trend in Tokyo. Such land-moving projects are only reserved for new airports, which cost just as much to build on existing land in Japan thanks to weak eminent domain laws.

Japan is self-sufficient in rice, and the government massively subsidizes Japan's farmers, who have disproportionate representation in the Diet thanks to single-member districts. They also have quotas on the amount of foreign rice that can be imported any given year.

I'd say about 10% of Japan's total land area is dedicated to farming, another 10% for urbanization. Kansai is the only large plain in Japan that's at least 90, if not 100% built out. Kanto still has plenty of room in the northern half of the plain, and the Nagoya area only takes up maybe... 1/3 of its plain.

Kanto and Kansai alone would have a GDP total of about $2 trillion... adding in Nagoya would push it above Germany.


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## mic of Orion (Feb 24, 2005)

wow


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## Nick in Atlanta (Nov 5, 2003)

Double "wow."


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## AFL (Aug 11, 2004)

Osaka...part of urban conurbation that stretches continuously from Tokyo to Yokohama and to Osaka ..and least thats what the geography textbook says...pelase correct me if i'm wrong...


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## Shawn (Nov 12, 2002)

Your textbook is wrong. Tokyo to Yokohama? Of course, you cannot remotely tell where one city ends and the other begins (except for crossing the Tamagawa River). Yokohama to Osaka? There's about 200 kms of sharp, 4000+ meter mountains blocking the way . . .


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## Jules (Jun 27, 2004)

Impressive.


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## XCRunner (Nov 19, 2005)

^^Quite.


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