# Elon Musk's Hyperloop, what do you think?



## AnOldBlackMarble (Aug 23, 2010)

I just came across this today, and I find the mystery quite intriguing. 


> Hyperloop: Billionaire Tech Mogul's New Idea Could Revolutionize Travel Forever
> 
> On the assumption that people will be living on earth for some time, Musk is cooking up plans for something he calls the Hyperloop. He won't share specifics but says it's some sort of tube capable of taking someone from downtown San Francisco to Los Angeles in 30 minutes. He calls it a "fifth mode of transportation"--the previous four being train, plane, automobile, and boat. "What you want is something that never crashes, that’s at least twice as fast as a plane, that's solar powered and that leaves right when you arrive, so there is no waiting for a specific departure time," Musk says. His friends claim he's had a Hyperloop technological breakthrough over the summer. "I'd like to talk to the governor and president about it," Musk continues. "Because the $60 billion bullet train they're proposing in California would be the slowest bullet train in the world at the highest cost per mile. They're going for records in all the wrong ways." The cost of the SF-LA Hyperloop would be in the $6 billion range, he says.
> source


...and here's the wiki on the Hyperloop.

Has anyone come across this before and thought what it could be? I think the most important points are that *IT IS NOT* a vacuum tube, and that it is *ALWAYS ON*, using very little energy while being able to *generate its own energy even beyond its own consumption*.

My guesses is that it would be a closed looping tube with pressure differentials from one end to the other. If it is made of transparent material that can be dimmed, like Smart Glass, then several miles of one end can be made opaque, to block out the sun, while the other end stays transparent. The opaque end remains at equilibrium temp with outside, while the transparent end heats up creating a pressure differential. Then by doing this back and forth between the two ends, and with well calculated locations for ventilation vents, you would establish a "wind cycle" within the tube, like the cycle of an electric motor. You could maintain the "wind" moving perpetually this way while added solar panels could power wind generators to ad a "boost" to the system in bad weather and at night. This way the "pods" would travel with the air, so no air resistance, and it might not even need a track, if the tube is slightly oval, and certainly no complex and expensive mag-lev tracks. 

This is my best guess from his description, and I'm curious to see what other people think.


----------



## gramercy (Dec 25, 2008)

how do you keep the pods level and how do you make sure the acceleration/deceleration is even and not sudden? how do you stop the pods from crashing into each other inside the tube?

I'm thinking it should still be maglev just not as big as a vacuum tube maglev train, meaning it should have a diameter to suit a pod that can seat 3 ppl instead of 4 ppl and a row

smaller diameter is key


----------



## AnOldBlackMarble (Aug 23, 2010)

gramercy said:


> how do you keep the pods level and how do you make sure the acceleration/deceleration is even and not sudden? how do you stop the pods from crashing into each other inside the tube?


Good questions. 

For the system to work the pods would have to fit snugly into the tube so that the air pressure can move them. This means no air could pass around them, so this would create an air barrier/cushion between each pod thus no chance of them running into one another. Also if the tubes and pods are slightly oval than the pods can NOT "twist" within the tube so they would stay as level as the tube is constructed. 

As for acceleration and deceleration, the tube would need separate on-ramps and off-ramps that enter into, and exit out, of the main "loop". In the loop the air is always moving. If the on-ramp comes into the "loop" at about a 25degree angle from parallel into the direction with the wind, the wind itself would create a "suction effect" drawing the pod into the wind. The acceleration would not be instantaneous. Plus it could be controlled at the "merge" by how much the "doors" to the loop are open. Fully opened doors would create a tremendous suction inside the on-ramp tubes, but if the doors are opened gradually than the "suction effect" would also be gradual. Also the on-ramp itself would probably need to have some "prop-vents" to generate more pressure especially near the "merge" to push the pods at speed so there is no jerking motion upon entering the loop. And the exit would work the opposite. A 25degree angle out of the direction of the wind so that the pod would be "spit out", and then once the "doors" to the exit are closed, with no more pressure behind the pod, the friction alone would slow it down. And the on-and-off-ramps can be as long as they need to be, one, two, or three miles, even more so that would mean very gradual acceleration and deacceleration. 



> I'm thinking it should still be maglev just not as big as a vacuum tube maglev train, meaning it should have a diameter to suit a pod that can seat 3 ppl instead of 4 ppl and a row
> 
> smaller diameter is key


The only reason I don't think it will be a maglev is due to energy requirements. Maglev requires a lot of power and according to Musk his system is extremely energy efficient, even possibly producing more energy than it consumes. That is impossible with a maglev. Mass is mass, and to move an entire, several-thousand tone train you need a lot of energy. Photovoltaic cells are still very inefficient otherwise they would be powering trains already. So the only other alternative I can think of, especially in a closed tubular loop like he describes, is using pressure differential, and the heat from the sun is easy "free" energy that would create a massive pressure differential. It would be more than enough to move the mass of a full train, or smaller pods, through the loop with no problem. The photovoltaic system he mentions would be needed to power the control mechanisms such as opening and closing vents to release or increase pressure at critical points, and the mechanism for for directing pods/trains into on and off ramps, and the closing and opening of the "doors" between ramps and loop. 

So for the system to work the way he describes it, the main bulk of energy that moves the mass, would have to come "naturally" somehow if his "hyperloop" can actually generate energy as he claims. I think what I described so far fits the required criteria pretty good. But I'm open to any other suggestions or criticisms.


----------



## Arnorian (Jul 6, 2010)

Just make this already:


----------



## Сталин (Dec 29, 2011)

Some concept images of it after searching:



















It seems like it might be a little based off of this:










A continuous circuit with these "pods" able to travel through it, and enter/leave at certain stations.


----------



## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

Hmm, sounds very interesting. Can't wait to hear more details!


----------



## gramercy (Dec 25, 2008)

Interesting idea, but I still think a frictionless Maglev tube with even higher speeds is the future for cross-continental tubes.

Make very small pods for literally 2-6 people, make the tube as small as possible, forget about incorporating other tubular infrastructure into it (except where it requires long tunnels and bridges), make it as compact as possible and then watch the LA-NYC time drop to an hour :banana:


----------



## erbse (Nov 8, 2006)

There was a concept very similar to Elon's one year ago. I'll post a link/video later (I think it's the one in #5).


----------



## AnOldBlackMarble (Aug 23, 2010)

gramercy said:


> Interesting idea, but I still think a frictionless Maglev tube with even higher speeds is the future for cross-continental tubes.
> 
> Make very small pods for literally 2-6 people, make the tube as small as possible, forget about incorporating other tubular infrastructure into it (except where it requires long tunnels and bridges), make it as compact as possible and then watch the LA-NYC time drop to an hour :banana:


With maglev you don't need a tube, just an extremely aerodynamic train. As for an evacuated tube, I think the risks are too high. One small fissure either in the tube or the pod/train would kill everyone instantly. A crack in the tube, would instantly be split wide open due to atmospheric pressure. At 4000km/h a train slamming into entering air would be like hitting a brick wall. It would be a catastrophic disaster. On the other hand if the train started leaking air, it is possible it could lose all air before it gets to the next station and everyone would either suffocate or die from "the bends". I think a vacuum tube is more dangerous than it is worth.


----------



## erbse (Nov 8, 2006)

^ What's your alternative proposal to a vacuum tube?


----------



## AnOldBlackMarble (Aug 23, 2010)

^^ The exact opposite... a pressure tube, or more accurately, a pressure differential tube like I described in post 1 and 3. A loop where the air within it travels thus any "pods" that enter it are carried by the moving air. Essentially a Pneumatic Tube system powered by the heat of the sun.


----------



## gramercy (Dec 25, 2008)

AnOldBlackMarble said:


> With maglev you don't need a tube, just an extremely aerodynamic train. As for an evacuated tube, I think the risks are too high. One small fissure either in the tube or the pod/train would kill everyone instantly. A crack in the tube, would instantly be split wide open due to atmospheric pressure. At 4000km/h a train slamming into entering air would be like hitting a brick wall. It would be a catastrophic disaster. On the other hand if the train started leaking air, it is possible it could lose all air before it gets to the next station and everyone would either suffocate or die from "the bends". I think a vacuum tube is more dangerous than it is worth.


I disagree, although your points are valid, I think we could have appropreate safety measures in place. For example segment the tube so that if the system detects a crack/air valves close off the remaining sections and stop traffic immediately.

How fast would your pneumatic system be? AFAIK vacuum tube maglev could theoretically shrink the distance between megacities to essentially a couple of hours.


----------



## AcesHigh (Feb 20, 2003)

AnOldBlackMarble said:


> ^^ The exact opposite... a pressure tube, or more accurately, a pressure differential tube like I described in post 1 and 3. A loop where the air within it travels thus any "pods" that enter it are carried by the moving air. Essentially a Pneumatic Tube system powered by the heat of the sun.


http://jacquesmattheij.com/elon-musk-and-the-hyperloop



> So here is my vision for what ‘hyperloop’ stands for:
> 
> If you reverse the picture and you imagine a tunnel that is pressurized then there is a much easier way to make the whole thing work, in fact it would explain one of the two parts of the word ‘hyperloop’, the fact that it apparently is a loop, which means that it is going to recycle some critical component. (the other, the ‘hyper’ bit I assume refers to the maximum speeds attainable by such a system).
> 
> ...


----------



## AnOldBlackMarble (Aug 23, 2010)

gramercy said:


> I disagree, although your points are valid, I think we could have appropreate safety measures in place. For example segment the tube so that if the system detects a crack/air valves close off the remaining sections and stop traffic immediately.


True.


> How fast would your pneumatic system be? AFAIK vacuum tube maglev could theoretically shrink the distance between megacities to essentially a couple of hours.


I have no idea. I would think that at least 400km/h or so, or even higher, but 1200km/h, as Elon suggest, does seem high. But I really have no idea, so it might be possible. And I don't think a massive system like this has ever been tested to see how it would work. On the other hand having air "mass" in a tube would definitely limit itself at "some" speed, at some point. And since the tube would follow the contours of the earth, at extremely high speeds I can envision pressure-vortices forming where ever there is a bend in the tube. All this is just speculation, and until a test "tube" is built I don't think we can know for sure. 

A vacuum tube is for sure the ideal solution. I would love to see this technology happen, but I don't think we are there yet. Maintaining a vacuum tube on the surface of the earth, that also allows for millions of people to enter and exit it, I just don't see how it would be feasible with our technology today. Plus, I'm trying "figure out" Elon's idea within the "specs" he has given us so far. So I'm trying to stick to ideas that are feasible today and fit into his parameters. :cheers:


----------



## James Donaught (May 30, 2013)

Musk has described it as a combination of a rail gun, the Concorde, and an air hockey table. The latter two elements (and the purported energy efficiency) suggest an aerodynamic support system (think lifting bodies), rather than maglev, and although I think this would rule out a vacuum tube, it doesn't rule out reduced pressure, say to the equivalent of 30,000 feet in altitude. We know how to transport people safely under those conditions, and moving along at 200-300 mph through air of that density should be easy enough. "Railgun" suggests magnetic acceleration, and probably magnetic deceleration, which allows highly efficient recovery of the kinetic energy. You can even imagine incoming vehicles transferring their energy more or less directly to outgoing vehicles (hence the "loop").

The problem that needs to be solved is, what to do with the air in front of the vehicle? A passenger plane just displaces it to the sides, but in a close-fitting tube, you'd need to move it out of the way as the vehicle passed by, and perhaps restore it to the tube underneath (for lift) and/or behind the vehicle (for impulse) -- or possibly behind a vehicle in the other tube, going the other way. (Venting it to the atmosphere requires compressing it to 1 atm, a significant energy cost.)

Deriving additional energy from the system almost has to involve some form of solar energy collection. You could put acres of solar cells on the tops of the tubes; between LA and SF there'd be an enormous amount of energy collected, and the DC current could drive electromagnets that provide motive force along the way.

So: trains accelerated and moved by magnetics, supported by air, and moving through a partially evacuated tube. Sounds do-able to me!


----------



## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

*We think we know what Elon Musk's hyperloop is*


----------



## AcesHigh (Feb 20, 2003)

Bond James Bond said:


> *We think we know what Elon Musk's hyperloop is*


they think WRONG. 

Elon Musk was CLEAR in saying the Hyperloop was NOT evacuated.

furthermore, in no way the Hyperlook is supposed to be underground. Elon Musk has been clear in saying it would be CHEAPER than the high speed rail line in California.

One has to wonder how you can do an underground vacuum TUNNEL that is cheaper than high speed rail.


furthemore, again... its an hyperLOOP! The word loop is not there for no reason at all.

Therefore, its quite clear its the opposed to evacuated: it is a PRESSURE tube, with the air moving the cars inside at supersonic speeds.

Its kinda like cheating relativity: oh, you can´t move faster than light, so lets move SPACE TIME (which can expand and contract faster than light). Thats warp drive.


You cant move efficiently cars at supersonic speeds through air?? No problem. Move air itself, so the cars speeds relative to air is near 0.

Furthermore, exactly because of the way such a system would work, collisions would be impossible, just like they are in the Aeromovel monorail system: the air creates a cushion that makes collisions impossible.



Again, I think everybody should read this link
http://jacquesmattheij.com/elon-musk-and-the-hyperloop


----------



## AnOldBlackMarble (Aug 23, 2010)

Here's an interesting discussion about he hyperloop at Gizmag. 

How does Elon Musk's Hyperloop work?










What has Musk actually revealed about the Hyperloop? Putting together the bits and pieces from his comments over the past year amounts to something of a performance brief for what the Hyperloop would be capable of. In addition to the killer feature (downtown Los Angeles to downtown San Francisco in 30 minutes), we know that Hyperloop would double the gate-to-gate average speed of an aircraft over that distance, which is 560 km (350 miles). Musk has said Hyperloop is a non-scheduled service which leaves when you arrive, is immune to the weather and never crashes. The only specific technical hints Musk has provided is that it's not a vacuum tunnel, but is a cross between Concorde, a railgun and an air hockey table. This makes quite an impressive list of attributes. Naturally, there is a lot of speculation as to what Musk's Hyperloop must be.
source


----------



## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

*Coming August 12*


----------



## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

*Tesla’s Elon Musk has a wild new idea*


> Tesla Motors Chief Executive and co-founder Elon Musk started off his week on Monday by tweeting an announcement that, from anyone else, would have sounded like a tease for a bad sci-fi movie.
> 
> “Will publish Hyperloop alpha design by Aug 12. Critical feedback for improvements would be much appreciated.”
> 
> If you still think electric cars or rocket ships are cool, you haven’t been keeping up with Musk. His “hyperloop” is a proposed “really rapid transit system” that he says will be able to get a passenger from San Francisco to Los Angeles in a half-hour. That would mean travel at 800 miles per hour, or about twice the speed of conventional aircraft.


----------



## AnOldBlackMarble (Aug 23, 2010)

Hyperloop Is Real: Meet The Startups Selling Supersonic Travel​









The majestic Senate majority leader suite in the U.S. Capitol was still Harry Reid’s in September when he eagerly scooched his leather chair across the Oriental rug to gaze at something that, he was told, would change transportation forever.

Former SpaceX engineer Brogan BamBrogan (yes, that’s his legal name) pulled out his iPad for a preview. Two business partners, the half-billionaire venture capitalist Shervin Pishevar and former White House deputy chief of staff Jim Messina, carefully studied the powerful senator’s reaction. Even Mark Twain, a onetime riverboat pilot whose portrait hung over Reid’s desk, eyed the proceedings warily.

“What’s that?” asked Reid, sitting up, animatedly pointing at the iPad. BamBrogan’s home screen showed a photo of a desert plain with dazed and dusty half-dressed people wandering around at sunrise.

“Er, that’s Burning Man,” the engineer responded, then clued in the 75-year-old politician to the techno-hippie carnival that takes place pre-Labor Day in the Black Rock Desert of Reid’s home state of Nevada.

BamBrogan’s formal presentation was even wilder, a vision for efficiently moving people or cargo all over the Southwest, to start, and the world, eventually, at rates approaching the speed of sound.

At the end of the 60-minute pitch Reid sat back and smiled. That’s when Pishevar leaned in, asking the senator to introduce him to a Nevada businessman who owned a 150-mile right of way from Vegas to California for a high-speed train. Reid said he would, and they shook on it. And thus fell another obstacle in the group’s fast-moving efforts to actualize what until recently had seemed not much more than geek fantasy: the hyperloop.

You remember the hyperloop, don’t you? It’s that far-out idea billionaire industrialist Elon Musk proposed in a 58-page white paper in August 2013 for a vacuum-tube transport network that could hurtle passengers from San Francisco to Los Angeles at 760 miles an hour. Laughed off as science fiction, it is as of today an actual industry with three legitimate groups pushing it forward, including Hyperloop Technologies, the team in Harry Reid’s office. They emerge from “stealth” mode with this article, armed with an $8.5 million war chest and plans for a $80 million round later this year. “We have the team, the tools and the technology,” says BamBrogan. “We can do this.” The 21st-century space race is on.

It’s hard to overstate how early this all is. There are dozens of engineering and logistical challenges that need solving, from earthquake-proofing to rights-of-way to alleviating the barf factor that comes with flying through a tube at transonic speeds.

Yet it’s equally hard to overstate how dramatically the hyperloop could change the world. The first four modes of modern transportation–boats, trains, motor vehicles and airplanes–brought progress and prosperity. They also brought pollution, congestion, delay and death. The hyperloop, which Musk dubs “the fifth mode,” would be as fast as a plane, cheaper than a train and continuously available in any weather while emitting no carbon from the tailpipe. If people could get from Los Angeles to Las Vegas in 20 minutes, or New York to Philly in 10, cities become metro stops and borders evaporate, along with housing price imbalances and overcrowding. 

Continue at source.


----------



## Ulpia-Serdica (Oct 24, 2011)

> *Hyperloop CEO: We Want to Go Public in Third Quarter*
> 
> Feb. 13 -- Hyperloop CEO Dirk Ahlborn discusses the project's goals and plans to go public with Bloomberg's Trish Regan on "Street Smart."


VIDEO: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2015-02-13/hyperloop-ceo-we-want-to-go-public-in-third-quarter


----------



## Huti (Nov 13, 2008)

most likely not (I'd love to be proven wrong though)


----------



## erbse (Nov 8, 2006)

Most likely what? It's about a Hyperloop feasibility study currently worked out by the crowd-sourced 100 people team at HTT. I'm looking forward to it.


----------



## Huti (Nov 13, 2008)

erbse said:


> Most likely what? It's about a Hyperloop feasibility study currently worked out by the crowd-sourced 100 people team at HTT. I'm looking forward to it.


we shall see. I'm still highly sceptic.


----------



## Ulpia-Serdica (Oct 24, 2011)

Hyperloop Website

I have to say the fact that so many top names from SV are on the Board of the company, does make me optimistic about the prospects of the Hyperloop



> *Hyperloop Is Coming*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


FULL ARTICLE: http://singularityhub.com/2015/02/16/hyperloop-is-coming/


----------



## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

This vacume transit is my best looking forward to see project!!

lovely project. musk ruled


----------



## Zenith (Oct 23, 2003)

Is there a thread for SpaceX?


----------



## AnOldBlackMarble (Aug 23, 2010)

Huti said:


> most likely not (I'd love to be proven wrong though)


I agree. I love this concept but I just don't see how a partially evacuated tube is less expensive than high speed rail. Also the pods will each have their own power source but only carry a handful of people. A train has one power source(locomotive) for hundreds of people. Everything about it just seems so much more expensive than an HSR network. The only advantage is speed. Speed means more volume over the same span of time from point A to B, so increased revenue. Maybe Musk calculated that the increased volume of travel offsets the extra costs of the engineering. Who knows? :dunno:


----------



## AcesHigh (Feb 20, 2003)

inno4321 said:


> This vacume transit is my best looking forward to see project!!
> 
> lovely project. musk ruled


Hyperloop is not vacuum. In fact, it won´t even WORK in vacuum, since it depends on air (Although on lower pressure than atmosphere at sea level) to work as cushion to make the vehicle float in the tube (think of an Air Hockey table) and to push AND PULL the vehicle at the same time.


think of a pneumatic tube system


----------



## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

AcesHigh said:


> Hyperloop is not vacuum. In fact, it won´t even WORK in vacuum, since it depends on air (Although on lower pressure than atmosphere at sea level) to work as cushion to make the vehicle float in the tube (think of an Air Hockey table) and to push AND PULL the vehicle at the same time.
> 
> 
> think of a pneumatic tube system


I see. understand your explanation good
but 
Forget the Hyperloop! Plan for vacuum tube travel between UK and the US unveiled - but is it just a pipe dream?

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...-announced-just-pipe-dream.html#ixzz3SnYcdVYb 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


----------



## AcesHigh (Feb 20, 2003)

a vacuum is much harder to maintain (and thus more expensive) than a reduced pressure tube.


----------



## Ulpia-Serdica (Oct 24, 2011)

*California is getting a Hyperloop, but not where you think*










Elon Musk's Hyperloop is going to become a reality, but not quite on the grand scale it was originally conceived for just yet. Hyperloop Transportation Technologies (HTT) has reached an agreement to build a 5-mile (8-km) passenger track for Quay Valley, a proposed "sustainable model town for the 21st century" in California's central valley.

While the original design was conceived with dreams of whisking passengers from Los Angeles to San Francisco in only 30 minutes, the planned 5-mile Quay Valley track running alongside Interstate 5 isn't likely to be traveling at the top speeds imagined for the technology. Rather, HTT sees it as a way to create a demonstration Hyperloop that works in the real world, carrying real passengers.

"This installation will allow us to demonstrate all systems on a full scale and immediately begin generating revenues for our shareholders through actual operations," said HTT CEO Dirk Ahlborn.

SOURCE: http://www.gizmag.com/agreement-reached-to-build-first-passenger-hyperloop/36285/


----------



## Huti (Nov 13, 2008)

^^

that's a solid start


----------



## Ulpia-Serdica (Oct 24, 2011)

Note that this company "Hyperloop Transportation Technologies" is different from "Hyperloop Technologies" the company mentioned in the article I posted earlier.


----------



## AcesHigh (Feb 20, 2003)

Ulpia-Serdica said:


> Note that this company "Hyperloop Transportation Technologies" is different from "Hyperloop Technologies" the company mentioned in the article I posted earlier.


yours is from Peter Diamandis. Isn´t he the same guy from the PLANETARY RESOURCES, the asteroid mining company? He is putting too much food on his mouth to chew...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Diamandis


----------



## Ulpia-Serdica (Oct 24, 2011)

Diamandis is backing Hyperloop Technologies indeed, which overall seems to have enlisted many more top-line backers than HTT, many of whom have a strong connection to Elon Musk.

I am surprised that HTT is going right away for the IPO instead of going first through private funding or maybe they are currently negotiating something on the side before the IPO.

*Hyperloop Transportation Technologies*








CEO: Dirk Ahlborn
Funding: IPO to raise at least $100 million (Q3 or Q4 2015)

*Hyperloop Technologies*








CEO: Brogan Bambrogan
Funding: 1 round, $8.5 Million on February 12, 2015


----------



## Shaddorry (Nov 8, 2012)

Think about these pipes laying in our oceans, connecting countries and continents faster than some airplanes. Will it be worth it? It's fast and energy friendly, but there's no room for error.



> *Hyperloop Construction Starts Next Year With the First Full-Scale Track*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## will101 (Jan 16, 2011)

I'll believe it when I see it.


----------



## erbse (Nov 8, 2006)

I don't think it'd be any more dangerous than say airplanes, rather on the contrary.


----------



## will101 (Jan 16, 2011)

erbse said:


> I don't think it'd be any more dangerous than say airplanes, rather on the contrary.


I don't think it will be dangerous. The problem is with Musk's claims about financing and revenue.


----------



## Huti (Nov 13, 2008)

will101 said:


> I'll believe it when I see it.


yeah, same here


----------



## VacaLoca (Sep 13, 2014)

Musk should try getting it kickstarted in Qatar or Dubai. Backers of the Burj Dubai would like to boast to the world they have the new transportation method as well. Connect Dubai with Qatar maybe. A lot less politics and regulations to worry about I assume


----------



## jcage (May 12, 2015)

The idea is really great, but is it possible at all?


----------



## Ulpia-Serdica (Oct 24, 2011)

*CALIFORNIA'S HYPERLOOP JUST INCHED A BIT CLOSER TO REALITY*

The Hyperloop, an idea first proposed by serial entrepreneur Elon Musk, might seem like science fiction: A super-fast, self-powered and practically indestructible new form of transportation would be pretty wild. But thanks to a newly formed company called Hyperloop Transportation Technologies (not affiliated with Musk), the idea just inched closer to reality.

The first test track for the Hyperloop is going to be laid in California soon, according to Fortune. The five-mile prototype is expected to cost $100 million and be ready to use by next year. The company just signed off with local landowners so they can get started.

The Hyperloop, a 400-mile transport tube expected to cost $8 billion, will enable a 30-minute commute between Los Angeles and San Francisco. And although Musk is not officially involved in the California prototype, the technology could one day speed up commute times between other cities, such as in Texas, where Musk himself is planning another test track.

Since it was unveiled in 2013, the Hyperloop concept has garnered both excitement and skepticism. An air-propelled futuristic rail line that propels travelers between cities at 800 miles per hour certainly sounds exciting, but some have doubts about the technological feasibility of such a project. Transit authorities in California reportedly balked at the idea, concerned about earthquakes and the fact that such a system would have to span all kinds of terrain and privately owned land.

With today's news, the project inches away from the sci-fi realm and closer to the real world. If successful, the Hyperloop likely wouldn't be fully up and running for another decade. Plenty of time to test it out and work out the kinks.

SOURCE: http://www.fastcompany.com/3046535/...hyperloop-just-inched-a-bit-closer-to-reality


----------



## Ulpia-Serdica (Oct 24, 2011)

*Meet the Man Building Elon Musk's 760MPH Hyperloop: Interview with Dirk Ahlborn*


----------



## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

VacaLoca said:


> Musk should try getting it kickstarted in Qatar or Dubai. Backers of the Burj Dubai would like to boast to the world they have the new transportation method as well. Connect Dubai with Qatar maybe. A lot less politics and regulations to worry about I assume


They are not that stupid :tongue3:


----------



## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

Ulpia-Serdica said:


> ... If successful, the Hyperloop likely wouldn't be fully up and running for another decade. Plenty of time to test it out and work out the kinks.


:lol:


----------



## Ulpia-Serdica (Oct 24, 2011)

The first images of what the Hyperloop, tubular transportation system of the near future, could look like have surfaced.

The images come courtesy of Hyperloop and UCLA's Hyperloop SUPRASTUDIO, which are together trying to have meaningful and critical discussions about how the transport will shape the future.

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2015-06/10/hyperloop-concept-imagery


----------



## Ulpia-Serdica (Oct 24, 2011)

*Elon Musk has launched a competition to build pods for his futuristic Hyperloop*


----------



## Stravinsky (Jan 20, 2012)

God, I hope they bring it over here to Europe. A 1000 km/h train!

I would love sitting in a coffin for like 3 hours to get from Madrid to Berlin.

I also don't mind not going for a piss for hours.


----------



## Cal_Escapee (Jul 30, 2010)

Stravinsky said:


> God, I hope they bring it over here to Europe. A 1000 km/h train!
> 
> I would love sitting in a coffin for like 3 hours to get from Madrid to Berlin.
> 
> I also don't mind not going for a piss for hours.


They can put "water closets" in the capsules and just imagine 1000 km/hr sex. Forget the "mile high club" or whatever.


----------



## SaigoneseMod (May 24, 2013)

They'd just need a bigger tube for a full size carriage.


----------



## Shaddorry (Nov 8, 2012)

Cal_Escapee said:


> ...just imagine 1000 km/hr sex. Forget the "mile high club" or whatever...


You're this one guy... :lol: hahaha


----------



## AnOldBlackMarble (Aug 23, 2010)

I love this concept but I'm still waiting on the magic technology with which they are going to build this thing. The renders show the tubes to be transparent. That would be great, but what are they going to be built from to resist the forces of moving at 1000mph? Also how are they going to handle the heat, in the California dessert, especially since they are sealed tubes, for them to be partially evacuated. Sealed transparent tubes could easily reach 500C or more. You would be roasted as a turkey by the time you arrive at your destination. :shifty:

I realize that they have to build a test version first, but I would still like to hear some suggestions on how they plan to make this happen.


----------



## Brasilfuturo (Jul 24, 2006)

In a quick answer i would say that i'm not very in the project, but from i had already read about, i see a very good reason to have sealed tubes.
The main reason it's that travelling at 1000 km/h (1300 in the original project) require a lot of energy if you have to fight air resistance.
So the sealed tubes will have very few air inside to avoid heat friction and to require less energy. And with few air inside, even if they are transparent, the sun light will not over heat the air inside these tubes because it will be so few in.
(sorry,i hope you understand what i explained, but english it's not my first language).


----------



## AcesHigh (Feb 20, 2003)

AnOldBlackMarble said:


> I love this concept but I'm still waiting on the magic technology with which they are going to build this thing. The renders show the tubes to be transparent. That would be great, but what are they going to be built from to resist the forces of moving at 1000mph? Also how are they going to handle the heat, in the California dessert, especially since they are sealed tubes, for them to be partially evacuated. Sealed transparent tubes could easily reach 500C or more. You would be roasted as a turkey by the time you arrive at your destination. :shifty:
> 
> I realize that they have to build a test version first, but I would still like to hear some suggestions on how they plan to make this happen.


as I understand, this is almost like a pneumatic tube, so the air moves together... so there will be constant airflow I think. Plus:

1) maybe IN THE DESERT the tubes will not be totally transparent. At 1000 km/h you may have alternate sections... 1 transparent, 2 non transparent... the view would still be like a a cinema, the brain combining the snapshots to create a continuous flow...

2) they may have air circulator systems?


----------



## Ulpia-Serdica (Oct 24, 2011)

> *Engineering Giant AECOM Will Work On Hyperloop Project*
> 
> Engineering giant AECOM will lend its services to the realization of Elon Musk’s dream of an immense “Hyperloop” network that could revolutionize long-distance high-speed transit on land, according to recent reports.
> 
> Hyperloop-podHyperloop Transportation Technologies (HTT) has announced that it has entered an agreement with AECOM for the contribution of its engineering services to the project in exchange for stock options in the mass transit startup.


https://cleantechnica.com/2015/08/31/engineering-giant-aecom-will-work-on-hyperloop-project/


----------



## Manabu (Jul 9, 2011)

AcesHigh said:


> as I understand, this is almost like a pneumatic tube, so the air moves together... so there will be constant airflow I think.


*Wrong*. Please read the whitepaper before commenting. Or at least the wikipedia page about hyperloop...



AcesHigh said:


> 1) maybe IN THE DESERT the tubes will not be totally transparent. At 1000 km/h you may have alternate sections... 1 transparent, 2 non transparent... the view would still be like a a cinema, the brain combining the snapshots to create a continuous flow...


All proposals that I've seen use aluminium (not transparent aluminium) tubes. The transparent ones in images are just "artistic concepts" or to show the capsule inside the tube.

The idea of alternating transparent and opaque sections is interesting, though the speed of the car will vary a lot during the travel so this ratio will have to be constantly changing.


----------



## Ulpia-Serdica (Oct 24, 2011)

*Introduction to Hyperloop Technologies Inc.*








> *Hyperloop Technologies Is Raising $80M, Names Ex-Cisco Pres Rob Lloyd CEO, Emily White As Advisor*
> 
> Some big moves ahead for Hyperloop Technologies, the LA-based futuristic tubular transportation startup with high ambitions to rethink high-speed transportation services to “work anywhere and live anywhere and be anywhere”. The company has appointed a new CEO — Rob Lloyd, who had been president at Cisco — and also added another familiar name to its list of advisors. Emily While, formerly COO of Snapchat and an ex-Facebook executive, is joining as a board observer.
> 
> ...


http://techcrunch.com/2015/09/16/hy...-rob-lloyd-as-ceo-and-emily-white-as-advisor/


----------



## Fluxit (Jan 5, 2015)

tonbenron said:


>


This video raises some very serious questions about the feasibility of
these vacuum tubes, dangers to passagers, engine efficiency in almost vacuum, exit routes, depressure problems etc. 
Which makes you wonder whether this is really just completely phantasy ...


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

goschio said:


> ^
> Its probably best to first have a functioning land based hyperloop line before attempting complicated underwater tunnel systems.
> 
> But lets speculate. Why not juts build the tube like an oil pipelines and anker it at the seafloor. Would be much cheaper. And in case of emergency, the tube can be opened and the train just floats up to the surface.


That would be an absolute safety nightmare given that this is one big near-vaccuum or low pressure chamber. All kinds of things could crash into it. So you'd at least would like to add some protective layer of gravel at least on top.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

tonbenron said:


> The Eurotunnel consists of two 7.6 m diameter rail tunnels with a 4.8 m service tunnel in between. The Hyperloop tunnel under the Baltic Sea would consist of two 6.5 m diameter tunnels with "connecting tunnel segments" and "shafts for evacuation and ventilation," according to their study.
> 
> Not sure how "evacuation shafts" would work on the western side of Åland, where there are almost no islands for about 40-50 km (almost the length of the Eurotunnel), and the water is up to 100-300 m deep. The Eurotunnel was also built under much shallower water (30-50 m). Seems to me that they would need an evacuation tunnel. So yeah, I still don't see how the cost could be reduced by a factor of up to 7,4 times...


Don't get me wrong. I don't see that either. I just wanted to mention the factor tunnel diameter. I have to say however that I thought the difference would be larger. Anyway, hyperloop between Helsinki and Stockholm sounds like complete fantasy. They should rather stick with Bratislava-Vienna. First of all, I would benefit more from it (for the unlikely case of it getting real ) and secondly it doesn't involve crazy long distance underwater tunnels with untested technology and the distance being much more manageable.


----------



## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)

*Elon Musks Hyperloop: BUSTED!*


----------



## Сталин (Dec 29, 2011)

Nexis said:


> *Elon Musks Hyperloop: BUSTED!*


I doubt thunderf00t knows what he's talking about. This project has hundreds of engineers working on it, they will figure it all out. These "busted" videos are just pure clickbait. It's like if aviation was just discovered a few days ago, then I could make a video titled "How flight can kill you" or "why planes don't work." Same thing.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

He doesn't seem to be an expert and it can be questioned if he knows what he is talking about it. But at least some of his points seem to be very problematic for the project. 

You can of course trust all those engineers to tackle those problems but I'd be sceptical about it. 

This is not just like aviation. It is more like the Concorde, energetically more favourably but technically considerably more challenging.


----------



## Zaz965 (Jan 24, 2015)

one proposal by dj4life
helsinque stokholm


dj4life said:


> The idea of a hyperloop train developed by Elon Musk may be a considerable option for connecting Stockholm and Gothenburg or Stockholm and Helsinki (via Åland islands)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Jacques DV (Aug 30, 2016)

What a great initiative!
Imagine this becomes maintstream, what a small place the world would become, even smaller than now with the low-cost air carriers.
I am looking forward to the implementation in real life!


----------



## Beckharm (Sep 9, 2016)

it's a joke.


----------



## PortToday (Mar 10, 2017)

*Hyperloop to connect Abu Dhabi and Dubai*

The UAE may become the first site where Hyperloop One will implement its initiative. 
At the Middle East Rail conference in Dubai last Tuesday, Hyperloop One CEO Rob Lloyd shared some up to date photos from its test site in the Nevada and introduced the idea of Hyperloop system for the United Emirates, which would allow passengers to travel from Dubai to Abu Dhabi in just 12 minutes. The journey will be happening in special pods at the speed of 1,200 kilometres per hour.
Hyperloop One has previously said they could have an operational system built in the UAE in the next five years, after signing an agreement with the Roads and Transport Authority.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

And anything known about the technological principles used for the system yet? Or are they fine with showing some pictures and anouncing yet another "first line"?


----------



## PortToday (Mar 10, 2017)

Slartibartfas said:


> And anything known about the technological principles used for the system yet? Or are they fine with showing some pictures and anouncing yet another "first line"?


It will be a bunch of small pods (rather than one large train) and will be on demand, leaving when you want to leave, and going directly to your chosen station. 
The infrastructure will be made up of large tubes that run between destinations, and the pods will hover in these (they’d levitate rather than be on tracks). 
The environment within the main tube will be controlled so that there will only be a very small amount of air, creating a suction of sorts, so that the pods move from one end to the other very quickly, like a parcel in a postal shoot.
Here's a link to the article with the video showing how it will work:
http://whatson.ae/dubai/2017/03/hyperloop-one-dubai/


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

^^ I knew the basic outline. But like so much before, this is fairly thin on actual details. What is the propulsion? Linear magnetic? The levitation however I suppose is based on floating on the remaining air rather than magnetic levitation, right?

How are switches going to work or is that system going to work as a strict loop. What about vast temperature variations in desert climates and consequently extension or shrinkage of the metal tubes? How are they managing the heat within the tubes (in full desert sun you could possibly boil an egg on top of those tubes). 

You know, Hyperloop wouldn't be the first system of its kind to fail during development.


----------



## ssiguy2 (Feb 19, 2005)

I am no engineer so don't really know if the whole idea is viable but I do know that this is the kind of revolutionary thinking that is needed to help solve our transportation needs in the 21st century and beyond. 

The real issue is probably not the technology itself but rather the politicians and the bribes they accept to maintain the status quo. Alston in France and Siemens in Germany have powerful friends. In Canada , Bombardier is use to government handouts and is the epitome of corporate welfare courtesy of the politicians they bribe. These companies have a vested interest in making sure that no viable alternatives of mass transportation see the light of day. 


Munk's idea of looking outside the box is what we need to propel ourselves into the future. In the 20th century when radical new types of transportation were needed they didn't just decide to improve the buggy but rather created a whole new technology which would have been heresy a generation earlier..........the train. 

The world does not need an evolution in transportation which the big companies offer but rather a complete revolution which redefines what travel really means and requires a tearing down of all our set paradigms and starting fresh. Imagine where we would be today in urban transit if in the 19th century everyone decided that trains were OK but the idea of running a train underground was lunacy.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Come on. Save those conspiracy theories for another day. It doesn't need some conspiracy to prevent this technology from happening. The huge up front cost with uncertain viability is enough to create a formidable obstacle. I do give Musk credit for creating th BS PR to make it a sexy undertaking, which in take seems to ahve successfully attracted some people with too much money who are either developping it or would like to be the first to have one (Dubai comes to mind for the latter). 

Sure, radical innovation like that often comes from others than the big companies, but not always. The Transrapid was developed by Siemens and Thyssen Krupp for example and they managed to create a mature and reliable technology in fact. Still, the technology did not succeed and again, it doesn't need a conspiracy to explain that. Actually, China seemed to be interested and looked as if it would evaluate theh possibility of building its brand new high speed rail network as maglev. Why do you think did they build that Transrapid line in Shanghai? Certainly not because a metro would not have done it instead. Yet, they apparently preferred to go for traditional HSR technology. I don't know why but I would guess because of a mix of costs and risks. Btw, HSR technology itself is the child of big government / big business innovation and I'd say a pretty successful one. 

I am actually happy about every company trying to make a hyperloop type technology reality. Nonetheless I remain highly sceptical about the success chances. As far as I can see it, things are still in an incredible prelimary stage so one can not even discuss technology a lot as so much is still unknown.


----------



## ssiguy2 (Feb 19, 2005)

Like I said I am no engineer and do not know whether the technology is viable. 

My point is that it is Munk's kind of thinking that we need to solve our transportation issues in an ever increasing population which is becoming more connecting literally by the day. Yes I know about the Shanghai train and it is a great type of advancement in rail technology but it is exactly that, an evolution of an existing technology. 

Our radically changing planet need radically new ideas that almost never come out of the major companies that have a vested interest to maintain the status quo with regular improvements. 

Where would we be if the computer companies decided to just keep improving our computers with better forms of reels and computer cards? What our technology revolution requires was a revolutionary idea.......the microchip. In order to bring about true transportation revolution we must have companies and people {like Munk} who are willing to tear up well worn diagrams, think outside the box, and toss all of our preconceived ideas out the window. 

When I was a kid going to school in the 1970s here in Canada, evolution and our progression from Neanderthal man was taught as a given, no questions asked. Now of course we know that everything I was taught was untrue because we don't share the same DNA. This simply exemplifies how one small discovery can change our perception of the world and our place in it.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

If Maglev is merely an evolution of transportation technology, so is Hyperloop.

Regarding Computer technology, actually this is very much an evolution and not a revolution we are seeing, already for the last 10-20 years. Actually that stepwise evolution in IT technology is going to hit a will at some point, unless there is some fundamental new technology helping us out. Quantum computation could be such a thing but it is uncertain if it will manage to become the next big thing or fail while trying. 

Same goes for car technology. Like it or not, truly revolutionary inventions and technologies are much rarer and harder to achieve then people commonly believe. They do happen though. From the top of the head I would think of Laser technology for example. That was something truly revolutionary. Modern molecular biology / biotechnology is based on a lot of rather rather traditional technologies but is an example how those can be applied to do something truly revolutionary.

PS: Regarding Neanderthals, I fear your information is not up to date. Science has done a big leap back again in this regard. While it is indeed wrong that Neanderthals are one step in a single continuous line of human evolulation, it is equally wrong that no Neanderthal heritage exists in moder human beings. In fact, a lot of ideas about Neanderthals seem to be wrong. They were neither stupide cave men, nor where they those unflexible carnivours who failed to make use of plentiful plant based food sources. A lot remains unclear but especially Europeans show genetic heritage from Neanderthals (a certain low percentage). Which proves that there was some mixing of some sort, even if pure Neanderthals obviously died out for whatever reason. 

You are correct however how modern molecular biology has been earth shattering to a lot of disciplines of biology. The whole field of taxanomy has been hit by a real earthquake and is in the process of complete reconstruction.


----------



## Kyll.Ing. (Nov 26, 2012)

ssiguy2 said:


> Like I said I am no engineer and do not know whether the technology is viable.
> 
> My point is that it is Munk's kind of thinking that we need to solve our transportation issues in an ever increasing population which is becoming more connecting literally by the day.


The issue with Hyperloop isn't as much about the problems it fails to solve, it's the problems it fails to address. Sure, it would be feasible to build these small transport capsules that fly between cities at a thousand kilometres per hour. One way or the other, they'll find a way to make it work. But the capacity of the system would be really small compared to the average commuter train. At best, it will dispatch as many people per hour as a high-capacity amusement park attraction: 3000 people or so per hour, per station.

More people require higher transportation capacities, not higher velocities. The problem isn't travel times, it's the amount of people the system can transport. Hyperloop will transport few people, very fast, over long distances (comparable to small aircraft). What's needed is a system that can transport _lots_ of people at appreciable speeds, between their homes and workplaces (usually within the same city). Hyperloop is a marvellous system for what it does, but it doesn't quite do the right thing.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

^^ Well, it seems fairly clear to me that this won't be a mass transportation system but a luxury, high speed transportation system. 

Even if they should at one point create a system with larger, maybe bus sized capsules, it probably would not get beyond a medium capacity system.


----------



## Kyll.Ing. (Nov 26, 2012)

Slartibartfas said:


> ^^ Well, it seems fairly clear to me that this won't be a mass transportation system but a luxury, high speed transportation system.
> 
> Even if they should at one point create a system with larger, maybe bus sized capsules, it probably would not get beyond a medium capacity system.


Hopefully, some of Hyperloop's concepts and technologies could be scaled up to work with actual trains, that would be the best thing to come out of it. Cheap low-pressure tunnels and safe high-speed carriages could find good application in high-speed train systems too.


----------



## Wheeloffortune (Jun 10, 2018)

I doubt the practicality of this project.


----------



## Architecture lover (Sep 11, 2013)

^ How do you mean?

In the new test it reached a speed of 190 miles per hours in just 5 seconds.
This is not just a render project, you have actual engineers working on it, and billionaires investing their money.

Anyways as of recently there is a planed route between Pittsburgh, Columbus, and Chicago. Possibly the first cities to get the Hyperloop.


----------



## MerynnTrant (Apr 4, 2018)

could be a good competitotr to regional airlines


----------



## MerynnTrant (Apr 4, 2018)

but I think gaining land right use for long stretches is going to be a pain. imagine a route from LA to NYC


----------



## Architecture lover (Sep 11, 2013)

There will be administrative obstacles if the US decides to play with bureaucracy, on the other hand if it's the same innovative society that we used to know and love, then this massive technological improvement will be all across North America in no time. 

After all, generations of people haven't seen something this great for so long.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Architecture lover said:


> ^ How do you mean?
> 
> In the new test it reached a speed of 190 miles per hours in just 5 seconds.
> This is not just a render project, you have actual engineers working on it, and billionaires investing their money.
> ...


That was not even a prototype. Not even close. 
This was a modified electric car in tube, guided by some flimsy metal median. After this test run they are still pretty much as far away from realizing their vision as before.


----------



## Architecture lover (Sep 11, 2013)

Well it's technology that's being worked for engineers to figure it out how to put the whole thing together. Is it that hard to realize this? There's so many teams in the United States and Europe (predominantly Spain and France) working on the Hyperloop, that's why Elon Musk left the idea to other people, his hands are more than busy, this was exactly what he envisioned, other successful people investing into something entrepreneurial but still feasible - and Richard Branson and others accepted the idea.

This is not the type of technology you get from one day to another, people need to work their asses off first. And it's not a far away timeline anyway, the 20's will already see the Hyperloop moving globally.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

But they merely made some small modifications to an existing bare stripped car, added some flimsy metal sheet to a tube and then managed to accelarate existing technology in a tube without causing any major incident. 

If anything this was a very rudimentary preliminary test on how the tube behaves with a moving unit in there which has little to do with the final product. Unless you want to tell me that the Hyperloop is actually merely a rubber tire based fast conventional e-bus in a tube.

You are right though, that this technology, even though no component of it is truly new or never thought before, won't happen over night. Yet in the next sentence you claim it is going to happen over night (broad application within 5-10 years is basically overnight for something that is not even beyond conceptual phase yet)

Just have a look how long it took to develop the Transrapid technology until it was a reliable prototype ready for large scale application (which then never happened but that was another story, the product itself was working perfectly fine). Yes, 22 years from the construction start of the test facility to having a ready product on a revolutionary completely new technology. 
It is to my knowledge also the fastest regular land based service today (430 km/h), even if the track is a rather short one at a length of 30 km. Have a look here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlXY6GIEYl4


----------



## Architecture lover (Sep 11, 2013)

You're constantly missing the point that it is a vehicle in an almost vacuum tubes! So no it's not just an e-bus in a tube. The Hyperloop has so many advantages compared to the Maglev, and speed is one of them. Instead of the US buying super expansive bullet trains from Asia, it can wait for half a decade to get the real thing, it didn't have a high speed rail for too long so half a decade is not going to make a huge difference.
By the way, your misinformation about the project becoming reality is surprising, each weeks the media is overflown with info about the development of the technology and cities and continents are basically competing to get the first one in their lands, setting timelines as short as 2021, which I do believe is very optimistic, but when you see how many people are working on it, it might as well be real, I'd still go with something around 25-26. Truth is, the first one to get it, the more profit, that's why the rush and that's why so many people are on it.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

The only off the shelf proper large capacity 500 km/h speed maglev out there isn't Asian but German technology. 

It is really hard discussing Hyperloop as it means so many different not well defined fluffy concepts that all seem to merely share the tube and some sort of vehicle moving in it at high speed and low pressure. By that definition I suppose even the failed concept was Hyperloop, except that it predated everything. 

The Swiss shelfed the concept because costs were too high. Yes, costs, even though it was also a maglev train in relatively compact low pressure tunnels. That is one of the reasons why I don't believe the proponents a word when the claim it will be oh so cost effective. I am not saying that they could make it but I am certainly not believing it before I don't see a really cheap working Hyperloop down the road in years or decades. If any of the companyies survives long enough. 

The media is full of reports indeed and most of those reports are of absolutely terrible quality often not even getting the fundamental details right of what is being tested and how and why. 

Hyperloop one may be one of the more serious companies working on it and also one of the few which have actually done at least some practical research already. But that is so preliminary what they are doing, we are miles away from a first proper test track. I am not sure if Hyperloop is capable of circular tracks or if that is even part of the concept but for testing it certainly would make a lot of sense as it is the only possibility to test longer runs without a full length corridor.


----------



## Architecture lover (Sep 11, 2013)

Well, there goes another one - HyperloopTT in France is building its own testing low pressure tubes, which happens to be in the same city as the aerospace giant Airbus.

The conversation is tiresome. Why? Because when the Hyperloop was announced we had people saying no way, now that we have actual teams working on a possible realizations across both US and Europe (Spain, France), we still encounter that no way attitude. 

If you want me to enlight you on every single paper of research they have so far, sorry I can't do that, I am not an engineer myself, I am just an enthusiast who happens to see massive interest about the project from various different sides.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

I don't say "no way". I say there is far too much BS and marketing talk involved and I don't like either. The way they'll convince me is by putting money into real research facilities _and _getting meaningful engineering started ... while cutting back on their nonsense cost calculations which can be nothing but imaginative thinking when not even the technical details are clear yet. If Hyperloop One continues like that a few years and gets somewhere with it, they can change my mind but I don't see why I should buy the hype now. 

The good thing for Hyperloop is that noting of what they plan to do involves truly new technology, merely the adoptation of existing technology to a new end result and even that end result is not unheard of either but merely never realized. That makes things somewhat easier but the end result is still challenging enough nonetheless.

From what I can currently see I would expect that they will climb down on the speed side (from 1000 km/h maybe down to 500 km/h or 300 km/h) and they will probably go for low capacity uses. If they overcome the challenges and keep up long enough.

PS: I am not an expert either but if you happen to know any research paper they have published I'd be happy to know. I doubt there are any, for good reasons, even if they had data to write them they do corporate research and be utterly stupid to publish it in any other form than a patent maybe, which comes only way down the road when they are close to a final product.


----------



## Architecture lover (Sep 11, 2013)

Slartibartfas said:


> The way they'll convince me is by putting money into real research facilities _and _getting meaningful engineering started


That's exactly what they're doing, and no one really cares about convincing anyone in anything, they just want the thing done, and for them to be the first ones to get it.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

> no one really cares about convincing anyone in anything


So what's the point of all the PR nonsense and over the top promises that they can't even possibly know at that point?


----------



## Architecture lover (Sep 11, 2013)

I really have no idea.


----------



## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

Hyperloop makes only sense if it goes at above 500km/h, preferably faster than 1000km/h. This would eliminate the need for pretty much all flights on those routes. 

The implications would be profound. Whole countries and even continents would shrink to the commuter size of a metropolitan area.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

^^ No it wouldn't. The capacity of the system would be almost certainly far too low to replace air traffic along any major route. As it is proposed now, if it works it will be a luxury niche product. If it is very successful, maybe less pricy but still as limited in capacity.


----------



## Marathaman (Jul 24, 2007)

the thing is 90% scam in my opinion. the virgin one is basically a maglev which is nothing new.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

The basic concept isn't so outlandish as such even if very challenging. Not being anything particularely new actualyl helps them as the trick is merely to bring existing technologies together. I would not invest a Cent as I am sceptic myself but I do wish them luck. 

I do not expect a world revolution in any case. Concorde did work but not revolutionize the world either.


----------



## Z-Zyl (Jun 10, 2006)

Slartibartfas said:


> ^^ No it wouldn't. The capacity of the system would be almost certainly far too low to replace air traffic along any major route. As it is proposed now, if it works it will be a luxury niche product. If it is very successful, maybe less pricy but still as limited in capacity.


Hyperloop is a hyped scum... but, if _we'll assume it would be completed_, it can definitely replace air traffic.

If we'll send 30 passengers' capsule every 2 minutes (which is possible with multiple loading boards), it will give us ~8M passengers per year in every direction, which is comparable with small airport.

If we'll send capsule every 30 seconds, it will be 24M passengers (or 50M both in-out) from every direction, which is comparable with big airport.

If station will take 4-5 directions, it can send-receive (in theory) more passengers than any biggest airport of our days.
It can be like "international metro"... even trip times will be almost the same: unlike airplane capsule doesn't need time to get echelon and goes directly from city center to city center.

Also, Hyperloop-like stuff is expensive, but cost structure is different: CAPEX is VERY high, but OPEX is low, which means, that it makes sense for operator to send more people for lower price up to the theoretical limit of the line. So prices could be some euros-tens of euros per passenger*km. Extremely fast and extremely cheap at same time.


----------



## Kyll.Ing. (Nov 26, 2012)

Z-Zyl said:


> If we'll send 30 passengers' capsule every 2 minutes (which is possible with multiple loading boards), it will give us ~8M passengers per year in every direction, which is comparable with small airport.
> 
> If we'll send capsule every 30 seconds, it will be 24M passengers (or 50M both in-out) from every direction, which is comparable with big airport.


That assumes operations around the clock, though, and does not really account for what times of day people will want to travel. It would do little to take away the rush hour crowds, for instance.

I think that the closest exsiting comparison to Hyperloop operations today are rollercoasters at large amusement parks. The very highest theoretically attainable capacity of those are around 3000 passengers per hour, dispatching 30-person trains a few times every minute. However, that's theoretical capacity, in practice it's really rare to break 1500 pph. There's always somebody with special needs, or who take a long time to get into or out of the train, or who fumble badly with bags, or don't pay attention, or the coaster itself acts up somehow. And nobody is travelling with any luggage to speak of; if you want to introduce that you add another significant cause of delays.

The capacity could be increased with some complicated sort of system with multiple loading bays that dispatch a capsule whenever one is ready. But such a system would require a hub the size of a large train station, taking up tons of real estate (defeating one of the main purposes of Hyperloop, namely the compact hubs), and the capacity would be rather bad compared to a train station as well.

I have more faith in a train-based system than a capsule-based one. Do the things with the magnetic propulsion and the vacuum tunnels, ditch the ideas of tiny capsules and small loading stations. Hyperloop's drawbacks mostly relate to capacity, which can be mostly solved by upscaling the concept a little.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Those are maximum capacities of a fancy premium product for the selected few, not of a means of mass transportation. A single high speed train, in double traction, a day can carry that many people. 

That doesn't mean that if it should ever break through as a feasible technology, it could not be of merit for said market of premium high speed transportation. But let's please stop that nonsense that Hyperloop is an alternative to High Speed trains because it is not it is aimed at an entirely different market and purpose. The Concorde did not replace railway either, did it?


----------



## Modestas Gailius (Jun 20, 2017)

Most recent video on the Hyperloop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcikLQZI5wQ


----------



## womfalcs3 (Mar 23, 2008)

Slartibartfas said:


> The basic concept isn't so outlandish as such even if very challenging. Not being anything particularely new actualyl helps them as the trick is merely to bring existing technologies together. I would not invest a Cent as I am sceptic myself but I do wish them luck.
> 
> I do not expect a world revolution in any case. Concorde did work but not revolutionize the world either.


Concorde failed because its lower energy efficiency could not compensate [for] the time-saving benefits.

This could face the same demise. It all depends on the trade off between the energy in takes to transport one passenger-km and the time savings a person incurs. The benefit of current planes is they can transport 200 passengers at once thousands of kilometers.


----------



## snow is red (May 7, 2007)

*China Plans Hyperloop Track in Mountains*

Bloomberg News
19 July 2018, 10:52 GMT+1

Test system in Guizhou province to be no longer than 6.3 miles
California-based startup HTT strikes deal to build track

China jumped on the hyperloop bandwagon, enlisting a U.S. startup to build a test system in a mountainous southwest province of the country.

Hyperloop Transportation Technologies, a California-based enterprise, is setting up a joint venture with a company controlled by the government of Tongren, a city in the Guizhou province. Each will contribute 50 percent of the capital for the venture, the city said in a statement Thursday. The test track will be no longer than 10 kilometers (6.3 miles), and the two parties will seek to expand it for commercial operations based on trial results and regulations.










The country of 1.4 billion people is trying new technologies to improve its transportation network and reduce pollution. Hyperloop Transportation Technologies, or HTT, is one of several companies formed to develop hyperloop systems since billionaire Elon Musk in 2013 released a manifesto detailing his idea for moving people at superfast speeds through a tube.

Shares of Chinese companies that could be suppliers for a rail system using magnetic levitation advanced. Hunan Zhongke Electric Co., which produces electromagnetic stirrers and separators, rose by a daily limit of 10 percent in Shenzhen. Yantai Zhenghai Magnetic Material Co., which develops and manufactures neodymium iron boron permanent magnets, closed up 4.9 percent.

HTT has also signed a pact for a Hyperloop route in Abu Dhabi, and has a deal with Brno, the Czech Republic, according too its website. It is also preparing an experiment in Toulouse, France, where it aims to get the system ready within three years.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...erloop-track-in-mountains-enlists-u-s-startup


----------



## Architecture lover (Sep 11, 2013)

snow is red said:


> HTT has also signed a pact for a Hyperloop route in Abu Dhabi, and has a deal with Brno, the Czech Republic, according too its website. It is also preparing an experiment in Toulouse, France, where it aims to get the system ready within three years.
> 
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...erloop-track-in-mountains-enlists-u-s-startup


More of this please! We already have too much of the knows it all - never gonna happen attitude over here.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

The headline talks about "in the mountain" while the article doesn't mention that aspected at all, or did I miss it somewhere?

If that were to mean underground "Hyperloop" propelled by maglev that would be pretty much 1:1 the Swiss Metro concept. So it has been revived and rebranded as the now fashionable "Hyperloop"?


----------



## Anticalaca (Jul 21, 2013)

Sorry if is already brought up, but, what about an hyperloop only for merchandise transit? I mean, commodities and stuff. It has all the pro's of the project, and at the same time all the disadvantages from the public-transit dissapear.


----------



## womfalcs3 (Mar 23, 2008)

Slartibartfas said:


> The headline talks about "in the mountain" while the article doesn't mention that aspected at all, or did I miss it somewhere?
> 
> If that were to mean underground "Hyperloop" propelled by maglev that would be pretty much 1:1 the Swiss Metro concept. So it has been revived and rebranded as the now fashionable "Hyperloop"?


One of Hyperloop's distinguishing features is that the capsule(s) travel(s) in a tube that is evacuated of air. Hence, you will have less resistance.


----------



## Kyll.Ing. (Nov 26, 2012)

Anticalaca said:


> Sorry if is already brought up, but, what about an hyperloop only for merchandise transit? I mean, commodities and stuff. It has all the pro's of the project, and at the same time all the disadvantages from the public-transit dissapear.


It could definitely work, but it wouldn't improve much in terms of logistics. Hyperloop is a hub-to-hub system, like trains, planes, or ships. And the hub-to-hub part of goods transport is the easy part logistics-wise. Once you've loaded something onto a train, plane, or ship, it's fairly cheap to send it to another station/airport/port. The expensive and complicated part is getting something from the producer (factory) to the hub (station/airport/port), and from the next hub to the end destination. After all, large volumes are sent between hubs, but at the hub it all has to be sorted and each individual bit of cargo sent to the destination. This part of supply chain management is known as the Last Mile Problem.

Hyperloop essentially wouldn't do anything to address the Last Mile Problem. It's a fast transport method between hubs, but in cargo transport speed isn't always essential (unless the cargo is perishable goods like food), cost efficiency is. And while Hyperloop is fast, its capacity is rather low, so it will have a hard time competing on cost. And it is just as complicated to pack a container of cargo into a Hyperloop capsule as it is to pack it into a train carriage or shipping container. I think it could be a great means of cargo transportation for the middle leg of the journey, but the first and last legs are the complicated ones, and Hyperloop doesn't do much to address that.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

womfalcs3 said:


> One of Hyperloop's distinguishing features is that the capsule(s) travel(s) in a tube that is evacuated of air. Hence, you will have less resistance.


This feature is far from new or unique in fact. It has not been realized to date in a functioning system though. So much is true.


----------



## Marathaman (Jul 24, 2007)

Slartibartfas said:


> The headline talks about "in the mountain" while the article doesn't mention that aspected at all, or did I miss it somewhere?
> 
> If that were to mean underground "Hyperloop" propelled by maglev that would be pretty much 1:1 the Swiss Metro concept. So it has been revived and rebranded as the now fashionable "Hyperloop"?


that's what i've been saying. clearly the vacuum tube isn't going to work, so we're essentially left with a heavily marked-up maglev.


----------



## Stan-nec (Aug 8, 2018)

> *Virgin Hyperloop One will build a $500 million research center in a tiny Spanish village*
> 
> Bobadilla, a tiny village in southern Spain that’s nestled between a 130-year-old railway and the Rio Guadalhorce, isn’t really known for much. But soon, it will feature a $500 million technical complex dedicated to an ultra fast, futuristic transportation system that was first conceived by Elon Musk.
> 
> Virgin Hyperloop One announced a deal on Tuesday with the state-owned administrator of railway infrastructures to build a research and development center in the little Spanish village. It will be the Los Angeles-based company’s first foray on the European continent.


https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/7/17660380/virgin-hyperloop-one-500-million-research-center-spain


----------



## Stan-nec (Aug 8, 2018)

Here is the list of 4 companies that are currently developing Hyperloop projects. There are other smaller projects, but these ones seem to be the ones with the best shot.

*Virgin Hyperloop One*

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/hyperloop-technolgies

*Hyperloop Transportation Technologies*

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/hyperloop-transportation-technologies

*TransPod*

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/transpod

*Arrivo*

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/arrivo


----------



## fountainkopf (Aug 18, 2013)

Slartibartfas said:


> This feature is far from new or unique in fact. It has not been realized to date in a functioning system though. So much is true.



It is similar to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel_energy_storage as a principle.


----------



## Zaz965 (Jan 24, 2015)

pardon me for the off topic, but he is the young elon musk








https://www.megacurioso.com.br/arte...s-mostram-celebridades-em-momentos-unicos.htm


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

> Hyperloop One says Missouri route is economically viable
> The company expects tickets to be cheaper than the price of gas for the same journey.


https://www.engadget.com/2018/10/17/hyperloop-one-says-missouri-route-is-economically-viable/


----------



## fountainkopf (Aug 18, 2013)

Musk has never hold a hammer before ?


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

^^
^^

Yeah sure. Magic economics.

It also looks as if that Hyperloop corridor would dump you somewhere on the peripery of St. Louis, so you can easily add more time to get there than the supposed total travel time of the loop.

Give me a proper HSR which connects downtown to downtown in 2 h without any transfers required and with actual mass transportation capabilities any day.


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Slartibartfas said:


> ^^
> ^^
> 
> Yeah sure. Magic economics.
> ...


On the local news interview I watched this week, they mentioned that downtown to downtown is the plan. But even if it only went as far as the STL airport, you can ride the metro train to downtown from there.


----------



## Diggerdog (Sep 24, 2008)

Slartibartfas said:


> ^^
> ^^
> 
> Yeah sure. Magic economics.
> ...


So, from that map, you can tell where it would 'dump' you lol Biased much?

You would rather a 'proper' HSR that takes...2 hours! And costs...what...what would a full fledged HSR cost for that route? I am guessing it would be significant.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

^^ Yes, one can clearly see from above map that the terminus in St. Louis is shown nowhere near its downtown. Aren't you able of seeing the obvious? (That is assuming of course that map above isn't complete BS to begin with)

It looks like St. Charles but probably it is supposed to be nearby St. Louis Lambert International Airport. Let's suppose they connect that Hyperloop to the metro station at the airport. From there it is a fine 51 min ride to downtown St. Louis, including transfer we are talking here about at least 1 h additional travel time. Totalling your travel time for downtown to downtown with the Hyperloop of 1h 30 min, the speed top notch HSR could achieve or merely half an hour faster of what a moderate HSR can easily achieve as well. A 2h HSR connection between Downtown St. Louis and Kansas City would need to operate at roughly 200 km/h average speed. That is a moderate average HSR speed. 

If that is not feasible one could go for a much more cost effective rail express service, at the lower range of HSR. The Railjet connection Vienna-Linz in Austria operates at an average speed of 150 km/h (max speed 230 km/h) with a similar number of stops. It connects a city of 1.8 Mio inhabitants with a city of less than 250k inhabitants and works out fine. An equivalent rail service between St. Louis and Kansas City would take less than 3 h, downtown to downtown, about an hour faster than by car. 

Regarding the costs, they would be substantial of course, but the system is a mature and high capacity one with a broad range of producers, that means it is capable of moving a lot of people, on par with a complete highway. The Hyperloop on the other side is a luxury offer, for low capacity. The cost estimates mentioned so far are completely unrealistic and it will be interesting to see how they want to cover them, given the much lower possible ridership numbers than rail.


----------



## Zaz965 (Jan 24, 2015)

:grass::grass:


----------



## Anticalaca (Jul 21, 2013)

I wonder if some day, some of the pipelines of gas-transport (a few of them are really wide enough) could be recycled to make hyperloops. They are hermetic ducts, after all.

And of course using somethimg already constructed, lower the costs in high percents.


----------



## Zaz965 (Jan 24, 2015)

tesla factory, nevada

















https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1945967&page=1419


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

So why is he calling a car factory which appears even in its not remotely reached final dimension smaller than eg the VW factor in Bratislava a "gigafactory"? Just the usual hyperbole?


----------

