# USA - Stadium and Arena Development News



## ArchMadness

This shrine to the baseball Gods will be completed by the 2006 season. Best of all PRIVATELY FUNDED!!!:colgate: 

I feel sorry for those suckers with higher taxes now:guns1: 


















































































Here's a link: http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stl/ballpark/stl_ballpark_newpark_newballpark.jsp

:cheers:


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## hngcm

how are they going to build it without interrupting the season?

it overlaps Busch Stadium


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## ArchMadness

> _Originally posted by_* hngcm *
> 
> how are they going to build it without interrupting the season?
> 
> it overlaps Busch Stadium


The construction teams will do all the ground work and parts of the stadium that do not overlap first. Then, after 2004 ends with a World Series celebration they start demolishing the parts that do overlap. I think then they plan on playing 2005 in a busted up Busch and then in a partially finished new Busch. 2006 rolls around with another win and the new stadium is done. Then the plan for the old stadium is to knock the rest down and build condos that overlook the new stadium. *I think* I read this about 6 months ago and I assuming that it is still the plan. I think the new Cincinanati stadium was built the same way. :cheers:


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## Sounder

*The largest outdoor football stadiums in the U.S.A.*

*1. Michigan Stadium - Ann Arbor, MI - 107,501 seats*










*2. Beaver Stadium - State College, PA - 107,282 seats*










*3. Neyland Stadium - Knoxville, TN - 104,079 seats*










*4. Ohio Stadium - Columbus, OH - 101,568 seats*










*5. Rose Bowl - Pasadena, CA - 98,636 seats*










*6. LA Memorial Coliseum - Los Angeles, CA - 92,000 seats*










*7. Tiger Stadium - Baton Rouge, LA - 91,600 seats*










*8. Sanford Stadium - Athens, GA - 86,520 seats*










*9. FedEx Field - Landover, MD - 86,484 seats*










*10. Jordan-Hare Stadium, Auburn, AL - 86,063 seats*










*11. Stanford Stadium - Palo Alto, CA - 85,500 seats*










*12. Bryant-Denny Stadium - Tuscaloosa, AL - 83,818 seats*










*13. Legion Field - Birmingham, AL - 83,091 seats*










*14. Florida Field - Gainesville, FL - 83,000 seats*










*15. Memorial Stadium - Clemson, SC - 81,474 seats*










*16. Notre Dame Stadium - South Bend, IN - 80,795 seats*










*17. Kyle Field - College Station, TX - 80,650 seats*










*18. Royal-Memorial Stadium - Austin, TX - 80,082 seats*










*19. Giants Stadium - East Rutherford, NJ - 80,062 seats*










*20. Doak Campbell Stadium - Tallahassee, FL - 80,000 seats*










*21. Arrowhead Stadium - Kansas City, MO - 79,451 seats*










*22. Camp Randall Stadium - Madison, WI - 76,634 seats*










*23. Invesco Field - Denver, CO - 76,125 seats*










*24. Pro Player Stadium - Miami, FL - 75,540 seats*










*25. Memorial Stadium - Berkeley, CA - 75,028 seats*










*26. Ralph Wilson Stadium - Orchard Park, NY - 73,967 seats*










*27. Memorial Stadium - Lincoln, NE - 73,918 seats*










*28. Bank of America Stadium - Charlotte, NC - 73,500 seats*










*29. Sun Devil Stadium - Tempe, AZ - 73,379 seats*










*30. Cleveland Browns Stadium - Cleveland, OH - 73,200 seats*










*31. ALLTEL Stadium - Jacksonville, FL - 73,000 seats*










*32. Oklahoma Memorial - Norman, OK - 72,765 seats*











*33. Lambeau Field - Green Bay, WI - 72,515 seats *










*34. Husky Stadium - Seattle, WA - 72,500 seats*










*34. Orange Bowl - Miami, FL - 72,319 seats*










*35. Spartan Stadium - East Lansing, MI - 72,027 seats*










*36. Reynolds-Razorback Stadium - Fayetteville, AR - 72,000 seats*










*37. Qualcomm Stadium - San Diego, CA - 71,000 seats*










*38. Soldier Field - Chicago, IL - 70,904 seats*










*39. Kinnick Stadium - Iowa City, IA - 70,397 seats*










*40. Citrus Bowl - Orlando, FL - 70,188 seats*










*41. Rice Stadium - Houston, TX - 70,000 seats*










*42. Reliant Stadium - Houston, TX - 69,500 seats*










*43. 3Com Park - San Francisco, CA - 69,400 seats*










*44. Memorial Stadium - Champaign, IL - 69,249 seats*










*45. M&T Bank Stadium - Baltimore, MD - 69,084 seats*










*46. The Coliseum - Nashville, TN - 68,799 seats*










*47. Lincoln Financial Field - Philadelphia, PA - 68,532 seats*










*48. Gillette Stadium - Foxboro, MA - 68,000 seats*










*49. Commonwealth Stadium - Lexington, KY - 67,530 seats*










*50. Seahawks Stadium - Seattle, WA - 67,000 seats*










*51. Ross-Ade Stadium - West Lafayette, IN - 66,295 seats*


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## TexasBoi

Great Pics and Thread
Most of the big stadiums are College Stadiums where the best of the game of football is played and most of the smaller stadiums are from the NFL


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## Guest

I think this is a international forum, for a better understanding it s better to call Fottball (=soccer) as Football and American Football as American Football. Without this "international" calling system we talk not from the same if we say here "Football". It s the same sense of decency to speak here english or at least to try it in this international forum part and not to talk e.g. in German with you.
Maybe for some Americans it s difficult to understand and respect other systems than them own.


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## Sounder

In the U.S.A. football is football & that boring sport in which they kick a ball around is soccer. The thread is about the U.S.A. if you didn't read the title.


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## JacobRit

Ha ok, so A) Football should be the game where you use your feet!
B) what can be more boring than 20 seconds of play and 5 mins of adverts for 5 hours?
and C) Football is the most popular sport in the world! American football does not come anywhere close

so think before you get into your one dimensional US Centric mindset!

Pratt!


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## Guest

And the funny thing about American Football: its Rugby, but with:

a) Lots of breaks to regain energy
b) Lots of padding, helmets and the like to ensure no actual contact and to ensure mummy's boy doesn't get hurt

On another note, I don't need to repeat what the enlightened JacobRit said other than that nobody in the wide world who is sane watches NFL or any other anally retentive American sport - now that is funny :lol:


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## TexasBoi

The great thing about that is we dont care what you think or say because we are not here to please you or cater to you. 
Funny, i have talked to many rugby players that has played Football and they say Football is about as physical if not more than rugby. You see what you see on tv and you think hey this is like rugby yet you probably never played a minute of the game.


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## TexasBoi

JacobRit said:


> Ha ok, so A) Football should be the game where you use your feet!
> B) what can be more boring than 20 seconds of play and 5 mins of adverts for 5 hours?
> and C) Football is the most popular sport in the world! American football does not come anywhere close
> 
> so think before you get into your one dimensional US Centric mindset!
> 
> Pratt!


after all that you just said Football is still Football...Soccer is still Soccer...does it hurt you so much that we will not call it what you want us to call it lol..Football games never go 5 hours
Harly anybody in the US Disrespects your sports..why do you disrespect ours??


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## Guest

I've not played professional - I'm simply not that good. I play wing and have played for ooooohhhhh for around 7 years. Luckily the worst I've had happen to me, is studs in the eye, being winded on several occasions and having an unfortunate incident when my crown jewels came into contact with a right royal of a kick (all better now :lol. I have however seen some awful acts - legs splitting right in two (ie a full clean snap with splintered bone ejecting out the leg - made half the team sick), awkward fulls with ankles twisting 90 degrees of more. My dad saw a guys eye pop out while he played, peoples faces being cut up like they had just been knifed. Its an awful game, but when played right it is a brilliant game.

The reason we disrespect your sport, is because you disrespect our sport by calling it soccer when its football. I dont call you a tossing loser do I - because you probably aint!!!!! So if you wanna be nice and not be the odd one out IN THE WHOLE WORLD then you really ought to understand where we are coming from.


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## TexasBoi

I know different people from different parts of the world that calls your sport soccer not just Americans...so its not just us


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## Sounder

Why do you guys have to ruin this great thread? Americans call football football and call soccer soccer. Deal with it. Now back to the topic....


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## rantanamo

You can move Sanford up the list above LA Memorial Colisseum after the new expansion


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## TexasBoi

sorry about that Sounder
I believe Oklahoma is renovating as well to get more seating


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## CharlieP

Sounder said:


> [*15. Memorial Stadium - Clemson, SC - 81,474 seats*


What freaks me out is how some of these stadia have such large capacities with whole ends missing - I'm trying to imagine how large the above would be if it the side stands were continued all the way round to form a bowl...


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## Kaneda

It would be interresting with a thread about the biggest FOOTBALL (the real football) stadiums in the US, or is it mostly played in American Football stadiums?


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## CharlieP

nick_taylor said:


> The reason we disrespect your sport, is because you disrespect our sport by calling it soccer when its football. I dont call you a tossing loser do I - because you probably aint!!!!! So if you wanna be nice and not be the odd one out IN THE WHOLE WORLD then you really ought to understand where we are coming from.


Nick - association football ("soccer") is only "football" colloquially in the parts of the world where it's the dominant code of football. In most states in Australia "football" is Aussie Rules, in NSW and QLD it's rugby league, in New Zealand it's rugby union, in Ireland it's Gaelic football, in the USA it's gridiron, in Canada it's Canadian football etc. etc. Even in the UK you'll find entities like "Leicester Football Club" (rugby union) and "Hull F.C." (rugby league) which were founded before the rules of soccer were established...

Where I _think_ you're coming from is the misguided belief that the code of football you follow is the only (or original) form of football, and North Americans and Australasians have "stolen" the game, unfortunately it just makes you look ignorant and intolerant...


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## CharlieP

Kaneda said:


> It would be interresting with a thread about the biggest FOOTBALL (the real football) stadiums in the US, or is it mostly played in American Football stadiums?


AAAARGH!!! There is no "real" football - football is a generic term for ball games played on foot. This argument is akin to beef and pork fans arguing ownership of the word "meat"... :bash:


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## Bigmac1212

Uga, the team mascot at Georgia, has a bigger home. With an added upper deck, Sanford Stadium's capacity is now 92746! Here's the link:

http://georgiadogs.collegesports.com/facilities/sanford/index.html


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## staff

One thing that is noticable is that NO stadiums in the US have a roof. At first i thought "then the crowd can't make any noise/chants", but then i realized - there are no supporters in the US! The crowd is there to eat junkfood and be a part of the "show"/circus. From a european view its mediocre. There is NO terrace culture in America...


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## th0m

College football is awesome, I wish we would have something like that in Europe!
Its one of the reasons I will 100% go back for college to the US again, after having had an amazing year (even though the football wasn't all that great at my school, lol).

And stop the Europe-US wars already, and just accept the fact that cultures differ, and so do stadiums!


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## ArchMadness

Some renderings of the proposed ballpark village. 


























What the architect says:
"This "Ballpark Village" would rise up from a re-established city street grid and would feature residential, office, and retail development that would bring vibrancy to the urban landscape 365 days a year. In the development section closest to the ballpark, a new building for the Cardinals Hall of Fame Museum would be framed by a series of themed restaurants and retail attractions that would provide an especially festive atmosphere on game days. 

The new ballpark design takes into account the rich architectural history of St. Louis as well as some of the more successful historic ballparks of the past, including St. Louis’ own Sportsman’s Park. The major materials of the building exterior are those of downtown St. Louis: brick, granite and glass. Arched masonry windows and openings recall both classic ballparks like Ebbetts Field and the architecture of Cupples Station located across the street."


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## Bigmac1212

Oklahoma's Memorial Stadium had an upgrade to raise it's capacity to 82,112. Here's a photo to what they added.


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## Guest

The whole crowd numbers issue is irrelevant. Since the Hillsborough disaster in the UK our stadia have had to follow much stricter rules regarding attendance, crowd control, etc. If the new Wembley Stadium followed the rules of US stadia in terms of crowd segregation, space apportionment, etc. the stadium would have a capacity approaching 200,000.


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## Zaqattaq

2nd Biggest Beaver Stadium just 5 minutes away!

May favorite american football stadiums have to be Qwest (Seattle) 
The Swamp (U FLORIDA) and Autzen (U Oregon)


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## Hobodog

DeMaFrost said:


> I think the only 5 true cookiecutters were the first 5 you mentioned. They were so similar at first that players would (jokingly?) remark they didn't know whether they were in St. Louis, Philly, or Atlanta until they looked at the other teams players. What were they thinking???
> 
> I think the other ones you mentioned were similar to cookie cutters. Anaheim had the rounded bowl shape, but it wasn't truely circular, same with Jack Murphey/Qualquomm in San Diego. They were not molded in the same style that was eerily similar at the other 5 parks


The Meadowlands, Giants Stadium can possibly be thrown in if you include the Vet...and maybe half of Shea stadium.


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## rantanamo

I love the open outfield plaza. Love the way it blends in with the city as well. This is what is great about the old ballparks. They just fit right into the cityscape.


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## Hobodog

Let me find a picture of Turner Field (don't flame me for mentioning the name so many seem to hate)...HKS copied right out of their playbook for this one...(note Turner is theirs too)


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## rantanamo

You're right. It is. The more squared off look of this looks more polished. Seems to fit much better with the surroundings as well.


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## edsg25

i agree with the observation that I hope the Cubs do better against the Cards at the new park.

like others, I think it looks like a great park. there is only one thing that I question about it: you guys have one of the best baseball towns in the nation. if anyone can fill a larger ball park than the norm of the retro era, you guys probably can.

that said, i see two things about the new park that might be a concern:

1. a small crowd will be gobbled up here

2. the park seems to have all the right feel, except one: intamacy. no, i'm not talking wrigley intamacy, but more like PacBell/SBC, the kind you see in so many of the other new parks

Has this issue been raised? Is it even an issue? Whatever, it's all pretty minor...you guys have a great thing going up.


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## Hobodog

What kind of intimacy do you not see? I see just as much as there is at PacBell, Safeco, etc...


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## th0m

What is a cookie-cutter stadium? I don't know a whole lot about baseball, so forgive my igorance


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## Hobodog

They were a series of stadiums built in the 70s that looked nearly identical. Giant concrete monoliths...let me fish out some pictures.


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## Bigmac1212

*First look at possible Marlins Ballpark*

It's not much, but it's a start.








That's just plain weird. :weird:


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## rantanamo

Looks like a retractable roof that would actually form a dome shape. Looks nice I think instead of just haveing a plain warehouse looking roof.


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## hngcm

looks like marlins fins...


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## DrJoe

well atleast its something different from the overdone throwback ballparks everyone is doing these days...the roof looks Skydomish


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## EAT my SHORTS!!!!!!

yea you're right dr.joe


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## th0m

It looks real nice. Better than them 'retro' parks.


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## birminghamculture

Looks good from that Picture. 

Cant wait to see some new renders


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## PHXbevo

Bigmac1212 said:


> It's not much, but it's a start.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's just plain weird. :weird:


hey a Tempe forumer! 

:hi:

That stadium looks nuevea-retarded


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## Bigmac1212

Here's a new picture:


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## The Mad Hatter!!

[/QUOTE]


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## rantanamo

Is that the Orange Bowl its sitting next to? OR Pro Player?


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## Bigmac1212

rantanamo said:


> Is that the Orange Bowl its sitting next to? OR Pro Player?


I think it's the Orange Bowl!


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## stlouiscityboy

I will miss the Old Busch alot. It was the first of its kind and it was design to play off the arch, see all the small archs at the top of the stadium. The new one will be great and i love how they are using the famous St. Louis Red Brick on the new one. I do think building the new stadium so close to the Daniel Boone Expressway was the stupidest things ever done, but hey im not paying for it.


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## etched Chaos

The Baseball park brick design, which is so familiar these days and used in probably every MLB ballpark i know of, is nice and i like it, but it is growing old. True it harks back to the olden days of baseball where the stadiums were part of emerging cities, but surely someone has to say 'No, i wanna innovate, I want to make my park a true beauty.'

Busch Park Mark 2 looks alright, from what i gather you losign a real unique park and getting well another brick based, fills the typical mould replacement.


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## rantanamo

The only reason current Busch is unique is because they tore down its siblings over the last 5 years. St. Louis did a great job of personalizing it though, once football left for Arizona.


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## PHXbevo

I'm just gonna chime in and say ...

Go Cubbies! 

and thanks St Louis for sending Phoenix the shitty ass football Cardinals. You could have sent the baseball cardinals instead.


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## edsg25

Hobodog said:


> They were a series of stadiums built in the 70s that looked nearly identical. Giant concrete monoliths...let me fish out some pictures.


and all that's left today is Busch, Shea in NYC (minus outfield seating, unlike the others) and ironically temporarilly back in the mix is RFK in DC.

The rest (Cin, Pgh, Philly, Atl and even the Astrodome, which had a Shea-type layout) are history.

What type of sports idiot believed that a park could be built that would serve well the needs of football and baseball?


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## reluminate

*New stadium deal for NY Giants*

Taken from the Bergen Record - http://www.northjersey.com 

*Giants and state applaud plan for bigger, better stadium*

Friday, April 15, 2005

By JOHN BRENNAN
STAFF WRITER










EAST RUTHERFORD - The New York Giants took a crucial step toward replacing their longtime Meadowlands home Thursday, more than 30 years after the team made the bold decision to move to the swamps of southern Bergen County.

And though it may be impossible to top the magnitude of that earlier event in New Jersey history, Giants executives who joined acting Governor Codey on Thursday in signing a 40-year agreement nonetheless are promising a facility that will scarcely resemble Giants Stadium.

In fact, Giants Vice President John Mara effortlessly offered a lengthy response when asked "what's new?" about the new Giants stadium, which is scheduled to open in mid-2009.

"More dining options, better concessions, more comfortable restrooms, a team store, additional dining and retail components, and brand-new practice and training facilities," Mara said. "It's going to be a sad day for us when the current building goes down, but we've got to deal with reality here."

The reality is that the majority of National Football League franchises are playing in new or extensively renovated facilities. That allows the teams to rake in tens of millions of extra dollars from additional luxury suites, thousands of premium seats costing $150 to $350 apiece and vast concourses that entice consumers to empty their pocketbooks on souvenirs and food.

Now the Giants plan to join the trend by utilizing 75 acres for the new stadium, a Giants Hall of Fame, a large steakhouse-style restaurant, endless aisles of Giants knicknacks in a team store and possibly a private 50-room conference center. The current facility, slightly southwest of the likely new site, takes up a mere 27 acres.

The Giants are intrigued by the 25,000-square-foot Packers Hall of Fame in Green Bay, Wis. That homage to the past features the Packers' three Super Bowl trophies, more than 75 exhibits on star players and coaches and a children's area where young fans can kick field goals or throw touchdown passes.

The site is open to the public year-round on non-game days.

An atrium at the Packers' facility features Curly's Pub - named after legendary player and coach Curly Lambeau - and the Frozen in Time ice cream parlor.

Don't be surprised to see an "L.T. BLT," a "Bill Parcells Tuna Salad" or a "Frankfurter Gifford" on the menu at the Giants' restaurants and upgraded concession stands.

Privately funded

The focus of Thursday's news conference, however, was on stadium finances.

Codey three times called the agreement "the best deal for taxpayers" of any NFL stadium, a statement echoed by New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority Chairman Carl Goldberg.

"While other states are building these stadiums on the backs of taxpayers, New Jersey said no," Codey said, referring to the Giants' willingness to pay the entire cost of construction.

Noticeably absent Thursday was sports authority President George Zoffinger, who until 48 hours earlier was still trying to convince Codey not to make the deal with the Giants.

Zoffinger wanted to wait until the fate of the New York Jets' effort to move to Manhattan was decided, which may not be until later this summer.

He also believes taxpayers will be hurt by the loss of revenue from the current stadium, since the Giants will collect the money from the new building.

But Codey produced a report by UBS Financial Services that he said demonstrated the new deal was "as good or better" for taxpayers than the current scenario, in large part due to the additional tax revenues raised by the more lucrative facility. The report concluded that the $700 million or more to be spent by the Giants, compared with up to $30 million from the state for infrastructure improvements, "represents the largest disparity of private-to-public initial capital investment for any existing stadium within the entire NFL."

Goldberg said Zoffinger was invited Thursday, but chose not to attend.

Will the fans follow?

The patriarchs of the two families that jointly own the Giants, 88-year-old Wellington Mara and 78-year-old Robert Tisch, beamed as sons John Mara and Steve Tisch spoke to the media.

Wellington Mara recalled how nervous he was waiting for Giants Stadium to open in 1976.

"We were really concerned with how our fans would react," said Mara, whose team wandered from Yankee Stadium to the Yale Bowl to Shea Stadium before landing in the Meadowlands.

"But it turned out that 93 percent of them renewed their season-ticket applications, so it turned out to be a great thing."

Codey and Giants officials stressed that the Jets are welcome to change their minds and remain in the Meadowlands. But the Jets are focused on obtaining final approvals for their $2 billion West Side plan, and fending off numerous lawsuits designed to stop them.

Many NFL teams have had their fans shoulder some of the construction cost by issuing "personal seat licenses," or PSLs, which require fans to pay $500 to $3,000 for the right to continue to buy their season tickets.

"Our present financing plans do not call for PSLs," John Mara said. "We would like to be able to finance this thing without them, but now we're up to $750 million in costs, and every time I hear it, it makes me shudder."

Concern over Xanadu

The memorandum of understanding signed Thursday by the Giants and the state is expected to be approved by the sports authority board Tuesday, but the Giants still will have additional details to work out.

Chief among them is figuring out how to coexist with the $1.3 billion Xanadu entertainment and retail project that has been under construction for several weeks at the Continental Arena site.

John Mara described himself as "cautiously optimistic" entering those negotiations.

However, he acknowledged that he has serious concerns about potential gridlock in the Meadowlands if Xanadu is open on football Sundays.

Bob Sommer, a spokesman for Xanadu developers Mills Corp. and Mack-Cali, said he expects the two sides would meet shortly.

"It's exciting that there will be two brand-new outstanding venues at the sports authority," Sommer said.

"The projects are mutually beneficial, and I believe both sides recognize that fact."

The Giants have not determined exactly where the new stadium will be located, but it is expected to be north and east of the current location, closer to Route 120 and Continental Arena.

"We need to do some digging, to see what's under there - or who's under there," John Mara quipped, referring to the legend that former Teamster Jimmy Hoffa is buried somewhere on the stadium grounds.

E-mail: [email protected]


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## spyguy

People shouldn't get upset over the use of football for American football since many of these stadiums are alternatively used for football/soccer with regional or international touring teams.


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## Sounder

staff said:


> One thing that is noticable is that NO stadiums in the US have a roof.


Check again. I reguarly attend Washington Husky games & Seattle Seahawk games both stadiums have a roof over the crowd.



> At first i thought "then the crowd can't make any noise/chants", but then i realized - there are no supporters in the US!


Check again. Many American stadiums are loud & have a great atmosphere. Most of the college venues posted on the first post of this thread are loud & have great atmospheres.



> The crowd is there to eat junkfood and be a part of the "show"/circus.


Are you talking about European soccer where they throw flares at players and have to play games in empty stadiums?

Come see a real football game in America at a good venue & you get to witness first hand the passion, noise, & atmosphere.


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## Sounder

zaqattaq said:


> 2nd Biggest Beaver Stadium just 5 minutes away!
> 
> May favorite american football stadiums have to be Qwest (Seattle)
> The Swamp (U FLORIDA) and Autzen (U Oregon)


Ever been to Autzen? It isn't among the top half of stadiums in the Pac-10. It is an overrated dump.


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## dande

Most of those big stadiums can pack in 100,000 + because they simply lack comfort of new modern stadiums. When you are in college you don´t really care about comfort while watching a game, in reality those stadiums would lose 40% of capacity if they raised the standards of the facilities. Red Star stadium in Belgrade used to be 100,000 stadium, now that it´s all-seater it seats "only" 68,000.


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## npinguy

both the americans and the europeans are embarassing themselves greatly.

Jesus.............soccer is a great sport. It's not boring. Football is a great sport. It's not a pussified version of rugby.

Both are great. And supporters of teams on BOTH sides of the pond are always roudy and excited and loud.

And all of them do stupid things occasionally - on both sides.





A somewhat unrelated question but - does anyone know what the biggest HIGH SCHOOL stadium is in the US? I say in the US because I assume Canada or Europe wouldn't have the #1. I also know high school football is really huge in the south and they spend millions of dollars on it, so i'm sure there's some stadiums that are pretty large...


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## rantanamo

Mesquite Memorial and Ratliff are both 20,000. Can't think of others that big.


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## Maroon Grown

has america heard of roof's? howcome so many dont have a roof over the grandstands?


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## Trey Howe

Well i actually played college football. I didn't even bother with playing "kickball"/ "socqueer ball"/ "kick-a-thon". Soccer may be just about the most borrrrrrrrring sport ever invented. Football is just better, so therefore since Americans are better, we play a better sport. Nuff said.

by the way, i heard that we (the US) is slowly but surely getting better than the rest of the world in soccer too. Pretty sad considering nobody gives 2 sh!ts about it here

Oh, i am ready for the hateful responses.....


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## kingdomca

Didnt an australian lose his life in the oxford v Cambridge university rugby game some 5-10 years ago? 
I think there have been at least one case of paralysis following each world cup, though alert and good sportmanship saved someone at the most recent competition as the pushing stopped following his cry of "neck" as he had felt it snap.
I also remember the welsh captain lying paralysed, I think, not too many years ago. Generally there are fatalaties every year in british rugby but its nothing to be proud off and is a real threat to the game beyond the obvious as some schools and clubs have abandoned the game fearing lawsuits.

Contesting rugby scrums is more dangerous than american football regarding the really serious stuff but also the usual minor incidents happening non-stop in rugby. 
I wouldnt want to play rugby, frankly, look at the forwards, they are a battered bleeding mess some getting a permanent rugby-forward appearance scars from hundreds of stitches, messed-up nose, ears etc. Fist fights are common, stamping and eye-gouging as well. current players have had ears torn right off and experienced split testicles, though this of course is more rare than just the usual constant sewing of players during blood-bins.


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## npinguy

Trey Howe said:


> Well i actually played college football. I didn't even bother with playing "kickball"/ "socqueer ball"/ "kick-a-thon". Soccer may be just about the most borrrrrrrrring sport ever invented. Football is just better, so therefore since Americans are better, we play a better sport. Nuff said.


actually hockey >>>>> football and soccer, hence Canadians are better than Americans.

yes? I think so.



> by the way, i heard that we (the US) is slowly but surely getting better than the rest of the world in soccer too. Pretty sad considering nobody gives 2 sh!ts about it here


HA yeah right.


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## PHXbevo

npinguy said:


> actually hockey >>>>> football and soccer, hence Canadians are better than Americans.
> 
> yes? I think so.
> 
> 
> 
> HA yeah right.


The USA is ranked 10th in the world. England 6. Here we come brits


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## Jerv

The fifa world rankings bear little resemblance to the actual order of world soccer. USA only play teams like Canada and Jamaica and so gain quite a lot of ranking points. I can think of at least 12 better teams in Europe and 5 South American teams, not to mention the african and asian teams.


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## eddyk

Trey Howe said:


> Well i actually played college football. I didn't even bother with playing "kickball"/ "socqueer ball"/ "kick-a-thon". Soccer may be just about the most borrrrrrrrring sport ever invented. Football is just better, so therefore since Americans are better, we play a better sport. Nuff said.


Utter bollocks!

Ive tried and ive tried to watch US Football but I cant its sooooooooooooo boring....run arounf for 7 seconds then stop for 3 minutes....oh my god!

World Football is more exciting and more popular than US football will ever be!

:2cents:

P.S
The two most popular sports in the world Happen to be Cricket and World Football....if you dont like it....tough


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## rantanamo

That's great that you've tried something, but what does it have to do with large outdoor stadiums in the U.S.?


----------



## JacobRit

stop it! its all subjective! sheesh.... p.s. Rugby players? Small? you say that with jonah lomu or ben Cohen steaming at you with the ball!


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## cpddavis

This is so stupid. Let me tell you as somebody who has played football and is a huge fan of it and who currently plays rugby (and has for over 10 years) that they are both extremely physical games.

However, there is simply no way you could play football games with a rugby kit and not have your entire team seriously injured within a couple of games. The stop-start nature of the game ensures that collisions are much more violent than in rugby. Attempting to tackle and block in that manner without protection would be ridiculous. Can you imagine a wide reciever going up for a ball on a slant or deep post completely exposed and taking a hit from a fast as hell 6'1 210 lb safety who doesn't have to worry about getting up and making another play immediately after or trying to steal the ball on the ground? Or how about a quarterback taking a blindside hit from a 270 lb defensive end or 245 lb linebacker coming off the edge. Careers would be over in very, very short order. As it is quarterbacks suffer from concussions quite often even with the helmet.

Rugby tackling is more about finesse and being in an advantageous postion after the tackle is more important than a few extra yards. Not that it isn't tough because it is, but the collision are just not at the level of football collisions. You are also less likely to be gang tackled since tacklers have to be aware and count on the ball changing hands multiple times before a tackle is made. In football it is eleven guys trying to kill one and the other ten be damned.

Very different in that respect. I love them both.


----------



## eddyk

I would say rugby tackles are softer _and_ harder than American football tackles!

Softer because both players dont have pads on and the tackler is less likely to do something crazy like diving at him from 5 feet away like you see in the NFL....but harder because well...they dont wear all the pads!

But if the truth be told I would rather be on the end of a US football tackle than a rugby one.

I remember playing rugby at school at break (recess) during the 2003 world cup cup....about 100 of us chasing the ball....you would chase the kid kick him to death as he was running trying to get the ball....and once you did get it you wish you hadnt as you then become the target to fists and boots...all in good fun though


----------



## PHXbevo

Jerv said:


> The fifa world rankings bear little resemblance to the actual order of world soccer. USA only play teams like Canada and Jamaica and so gain quite a lot of ranking points. I can think of at least 12 better teams in Europe and 5 South American teams, not to mention the african and asian teams.


uh-huh.

meanwhile, England plays such powerhouses as:

30/03/2005 Azerbaijan W 2-0 
26/03/2005 Northern Ireland W 4-0 
09/02/2005 Holland D 0-0 
17/11/2004 Spain L 1-0 
13/10/2004 Azerbaijan W 1-0 
09/10/2004 Wales W 2-0 
08/09/2004 Poland W 2-1 
04/09/2004 Austria D 2-2 
18/08/2004 Ukraine W 3-0 
24/06/2004 Portugal L 2-2 

holy smokes ... its amazing y'all arent ranked the world's #1 :|

meanwhile, these are the USA's recent results:

Feb. 9 Trinidad & Tobago 2-1 W Johnson
March 9 Colombia 3-0 W 
March 19 Honduras 1-0 W 
March 27 Mexico 1-2 L 
March 30 Guatemala 2-0 W 
Jan. 18 Denmark 1-1 T 
Feb. 18 Holland 0-1 L 
March 13 Haiti 1-1 T 
March 31 Poland 1-0 W 
Apr. 28 Mexico 1-0 W 
June 2 Honduras 4-0 W 
June 13 Grenada 3-0 W 
June 20 Grenada 3-2 W 
July 11 Poland 1-1 T 
Aug. 18 Jamaica 1-1 T 
Sept. 4 El Salvador 2-0 W 
Sept. 9 Panama City 1-1 T 
Oct. 10 El Salvador 2-0 W 
Oct. 13 Panama 6-0 W 
Nov. 17 Jamaica 1-1 T 



I think the rankings are fair and accurate.


----------



## rantanamo

> But if the truth be told I would rather be on the end of a US football tackle than a rugby one.


Let's run two unpadded people into each other, vs running two people in opposing cars at each other. Which would most likely hurt the people the most? I think the most misunderstood part about the pads in football is that they somehow stop pain. The pads are more like seatbelts and helmet as opposed to airbags. You still feel the pain, but the helmets stops your brain enough to not splatter from a basal skull injury..............most of the time. It hasn't always worked. Shoulder pads, or anything on the legs do absolutely nothing and are more for reducing calcium deposits from deep bone bruising. Period, you don't want to be tackled by Ray Lewis or Derrick Johnson on a regular basis. Rugby is rough, but the pads in hockey or football simply allow another level of contact by participants. Pads encourage harder and more violent contact.


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## eddyk

"Let's run two unpadded people into each other, vs running two people in opposing cars at each other. Which would most likely hurt the people the most?"

Misleading comment....I would rather be in a car getting hit by another car at 20mph than getting run into by a man at 20mph

Still....I would rather go and play US football...because im a wuss!

Dont get me wrong I know its rough....but I think rugby is more rough!

I know a profesional US football player will lose 15 years of his life....not sure what rugby players lose....appart from their looks 

World Football players are also at danger of an early death from heading the ball too often....its have happened before!

Im not sure if youve headed a solid ball flying in at 50mph but it does rattle your brain!


----------



## erki89

Good that i'm really bad in heading


----------



## rantanamo

Sport for wussies with world class speed and strength

http://www.ece.utk.edu/~eboyd/NFL's Greatest Hits.mpg


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## etched Chaos

Rantanamo, lighten up will you, eddyk isn;t saying American Football si a game for wussies he mertely saying he'd rather get hit by someone in pads than someone without. I play American Football and played Rugby for 7 years. There is no real difference, in Rugby especially if you a Forward you'll take more knocks and hits than an American Footballer will ever take in a game (barring a 30 touch a game Half-back) the hits aren't as violent but the punishment builds up to create the same effect. Also my injury list from Rugby is long, My lower body alone is shot to pieces because of the game and I only played at Junior - Colts level. 

Thats not to say i won't get many injuries from american Football, but I prefer tackling with pads on, there is nothing to prevent you from going at full-whack and hitting someone... But Rantanamo until you play rugby for a prolonged period of time, i think your words about the sport should be ignored, you have no basis to make comparisons.


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## rantanamo

why are you asking me to lighten up? I merely explained and showed something. 

Do you play in the NFL? D-1 or 2 college football? Until you play at these levels your words should be ignored as well. The difference in size/strength, etc make these levels different from high school, semi-pro, div III, etc. What makes any of your, especially European posters that haven't played or really know nothing about FOOTBALL, anymore important or correct than mine?

The same happens in every post. Something American is said to be inferior, we explain otherwise or that we simply have different philosophies, the subject is changed and our sports are said to be inferior, unpopular, etc, etc. I see a pattern.


----------



## etched Chaos

Cut the crap Rantanamo I never said American Football was inferior, why do you feel so slighted by everyone? i know a heck of alot about Football but because I'm 'European' i can't know anything because we Europeans couldn't possibly know much about Gridiron now could we? I never said that American Football is inferior i said that the opunishment is about the same because in Rugby its an accumulation in American Football its all-out hitting. If you think about it, both are similar sports but use hitting in different contexts, in Rugby its about wrapping up the player in American Football its about putting them to ground. 

Now please enlighten me as to where in this i made American Football out to be inferior? I haven't I've merely made my own comparisons and whats does it matter about what level you play at? So i play at Amateur Level who is to say that we don't hit hard or that there are players here that won't hurt people? Your acting like we could never emulate the great Americans at that sports, its not the point that the middle linebacker i play with is going to walk into an American College next season or that we have several players from our league now in NFL-Europe. When you learn to open your eyes, I'm sure the Europeans will too.


----------



## rantanamo

No one said you did, but the fact is you went straight to my post saying that I can't speak on it, when you have a post(really a board) full of people that have only watched limited action of FOOTBALL and I don't see this same chastising of them from you.



> Your acting like we could never emulate the great Americans at that sports


I have read the same thing several times in the other direction, specifically with regard to soccer, despite the US playing without the countries best athletes have had a lot more success than most of the non-European world. You talk of a guy walking into an American college, but there are almost as many college football teams as there are high school. Even I could have played if I liked. It all depends on if a scholarship is given to a major school. Those are the elite athletes. The level of an NFL Europe team is pretty much at the major college level. Basically its guys that NFL teams want to evaluate. Most guys there aren't good enough to play even on the bench in the NFL. That's why they are there.

The entire world has great athletes, but its just funny when guys talk of Lomu being big strong and fast, when there are tons of guys like Julius Peppers, KGB, Simeon Rice, etc, etc, etc, that are bigger, stronger and faster.


----------



## eddyk

"Still....I would rather go and play US football...because im a wuss!"

When I said that....I was speaking as if I had a choice between the two sports!


Theres actually a well know saying in the rugby world....

'Give blood...play Rugby'

It truely is a blood sport!


----------



## rantanamo

And you can make that choice from just watching while I cannot? Interesting. Blood, hahaha. Ask Teddy Bruschi or Ray Lewis about that.


----------



## CharlieP

rob12345 said:


> leave the football name alone thats our name we was playing football long before american football


And people were playing football long before soccer - what's your point?


----------



## rantanamo

????? now I am really confused.


----------



## eddyk

rantanamo said:


> And you can make that choice from just watching while I cannot? Interesting. Blood, hahaha. Ask Teddy Bruschi or Ray Lewis about that.


Yes blood....I cant remember the last time ive seen a rugby match which hasnt had blood in it!

There is alot of head bashing, elbowing, kicking etc.


----------



## etched Chaos

Rantanamo I'm not going to chasticise them all because you seem to do that well yourself. I find the whole bit that you think we all don't have the same level of knowledge to be a knock on me as well... I love the sport, i love it to the point that i was listening to the later rounds of the NFL Draft on an online Radio. I just take your general statements to be offensive to me, because your not accepting the fact that there are huge NFL fans in Europe. 
I know gusy like Julius Peppers are great athletes, i know that I'd never want to get hit by Ray Lewis, but don't talk down the players we have over here because they're not NFL standard... its not exactly easy to become NFL standard now is it? But we give every hit as if our lives depend on it and it could be our last, we play just as hard but not at as high a level.


----------



## rantanamo

Dude, now you are totally off of it. I'm not even addressing you, etched. Being knowlegeable about football as you are, you have to admit that a lot of the posts(ok, 99%) are very ignorant of football and show that over and over. I am not bunching you into that group. We know there are fans there or NFL Europe wouldn't exist anymore. Its your own compatriots that you must convince of that. 

I apologize if I am talking down your players. That was not my intention. I'm glad you guys give it your all and our great fans of our sport. Hard nosed football is always appreciated. Again, when I am debating the merits of the sport, it is obviously not a debate versus the likes of yourself. You understand. My contention is that your post are directed towards myself and not towards the posts from your own compatriots that really don't know anything about football. I don't know how long you have been posting here, but we have suffered this ignorance as the minority posters for a long long time. That's why the underdog role that some new posters try to take on for Europe is surprising and very ironic to many of us who have posted here for a while. We have heard all of this before.


----------



## Trey Howe

Actually, the size difference between D1 and D3 isn't that big anymore. D 2 football is sort of it's own thing. The national D-III champ had a bigger offensive line than Ohio States. The areas are graying. The biggest difference in football is that in college it really doesn't matter what division it is.....the hits are hard and fast. High school is different because the players are still teenagers. Being hit by a fully grown 22 yrs old man is quite different than being hit by a 17yr old boy (Trust me on this one, i know from experience). I actually signed with a Division-I program, but ended up going to a D-III school for $ reasons. D-III men can play ball.


----------



## rantanamo

You can say there isn't much difference, D3 men can play ball, but the speed/strength/skill difference is still huge. D3 would still get it handed to them pretty well. That's why you very very rarely, if ever get D3 players to the next level of ball. And you are right about 17 vs 22 year old. How about 22 vs 26? That's even a bigger difference because the level and time of training increases. That's the difference between football and other sports. IF a 17,18,19 year old has the skill in most sports they can compete. They have no shot in football because they would not have the body or mental capacity to take the pounding.


----------



## etched Chaos

Thats fair enough, but from my standpoint it looks as if you guys are the bigger dogs around here other than Eddyk and a few others you guys seems to rule the roost but then thats from my own POV and i was only trying to even things up a bit. Of course I'm in the wrong position to do so I love American Football, Soccer and Rugby so to pick a favourite would be asanine on my behalf.


----------



## panamared

sorry but football is football , american football should be call american handball o running ball somthing like that , the only country in the world that is trying to call football whit another name "soccer" and i dont know why.


----------



## TexasBoi

panamared said:


> sorry but football is football , american football should be call american handball o running ball somthing like that , the only country in the world that is trying to call football whit another name "soccer" and i dont know why.


the only country in the world that calls it soccer??? Are you sure about that?


----------



## CrazyCanuck

Canadians call it soccer too.


----------



## PHXbevo

panamared said:


> sorry but football is football , american football should be call american handball o running ball somthing like that , the only country in the world that is trying to call football whit another name "soccer" and i dont know why.


The homeland of the game, England, invented the term "soccer", denoting "association football" ... dumbass.


----------



## etched Chaos

I just find it weird that oxford students coined the Word 'Soccer' and yet we English never use it. It has firmly been adopted by American and similar countries to have other variations on the name of Football...


----------



## The Game Is Up

All I could say at this point is imagine if a woman were to be reading this silly debate over which is the "true man's man roughest sport". :laugh: Some of us guys like to take it to the nth degree. Keeps us away from reality for a while. :moods: et:

Carry on


----------



## JARdan

This photo looks photo-shopped:


Sounder said:


> *17. Kyle Field - College Station, TX - 80,650 seats*


----------



## eddyk

I think the lack of a cockpit on the plane closest to us gives it away!


----------



## eddyk

Wrong thread!


----------



## PHXbevo

JARdan said:


> This photo looks photo-shopped:


thats because it is, James Bond.


----------



## CharlieP

CrazyCanuck said:


> Canadians call it soccer too.


And Australians, and New Zealanders, and South Africans, and the Irish, and English, Scottish and Welsh in certain circumstances...


----------



## rantanamo

> I have also noticed many new NFL stadiums are opting for no seats or atleast no corner seats behind the endzones (Philadelphia, Seattle, Denver on one side, Tennessee, Tampa Bay.) I like the stlye but to many teams are doing it.


The reasons for open corners are for the plazas and to prevent swirling winds that are a problem in some bowls. Especially in Coastal Cities. The stadium this one most resembles is Philly with one whole open end zone. I like it. I really like the unique bowl shapes that the NFL goes with.


----------



## Cheese Mmmmmmmmmmmm

zaqattaq said:


> What's wrong with Qualcomm


The only thing wrong with it is, the NFL won't let San Diego host the Super Bowl till they build a new stadium.

I agree with you, Qualcomm's in great condition, but I guess they want a newer facility, (built in the 60s.) :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


----------



## Mr. T

^^
San Diego hosted the Super Bowl 3 years ago when the Tampa Bay beat Oakland.


----------



## ASupertall4SD

Cheese Mmmmmmmmmmmm said:


> The only thing wrong with it is, the NFL won't let San Diego host the Super Bowl till they build a new stadium.
> 
> I agree with you, Qualcomm's in great condition, but I guess they want a newer facility, (built in the 60s.) :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


As a season ticket holder, I must completely disagree. Qualcomm is in wretched condition. The run off from rain creates floods, the seats are horribly uncomfortable, the rows are too compact. The causeways are completely isolated from the action, there are no luxery suites, and lastly the replay monitors are smaller than my tv at home. Everything is wrong with it. The NFL will never come back to SD, 3 years ago being the last time ever, until there is a new stadium. That is an additional scar on Qualcomm.

Most importantly, the Qualcomm site, 160 acres of parking lot is a complete waste of prime real estate. It drains roughly 15 mil a year in maintenance, and has roughly 50 mil in deferred maintenance still due. The area is in need of massive infrastructure as wll. The new stadium will be fully funded by the chargers, roughly 400 mil. but still owned by the city. The infrastructure and deferred debt owed will be paid for by the chargers, 175 mil and the 50 mil. The over run cost will be paid by the chargers. Will create a 25 acres river front beautification and park system.

The chargers ask for 60 acres on the site to develop in return worth a pretty penny. But, as I believe, would be worth giving them, due to the fact that this will be a huge money making project. Hotel taxes, sales tax from development. New park system. New stadium, with super bowl as promised once every 5 years. Two college footbal bowl games. City wide pride. A competitive football team with equal economic strength to go after Top Notch talent.

That is why Qualcomm is wack, and a new stadium is necessary.


----------



## Cheese Mmmmmmmmmmmm

^ Thanks, I had never actually been to Qualcomm so I didn't know its condition (Hmm, I wonder why I said it was in "great condition"...  .) It was quite the innovative design back in the 60s, but from what you say it's fallen into disrepair.

But yeah, this new place's best selling point is it'll put San Diego back in the Super Bowl host city rotation.    

And yes, Mr. T, San Diego did just host Super Bowl XXXVII, but the NFL during that time publicly announced San Diego would NOT get another Super Bowl until they build a new stadium.


----------



## The Mad Hatter!!

i like it but it looks exactly like ravens stadium..i hope they don't put in yellow seats....that would be so tacky


----------



## SuperDog

zaqattaq said:


> What's wrong with Qualcomm



Qualcomm was built in the 60's and as we all know in Southern California anything over 40 years of age (including people) is considered an antique.


----------



## Cheese Mmmmmmmmmmmm

^ Mmmm, perhaps sky blue seats with canary yellow ones to compliment the Chargers old throwback uniforms! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## Dale

Hadl to Alworth ! Touchdown !


----------



## hngcm

Cheese Mmmmmmmmmmmm said:


> ^ Mmmm, perhaps sky blue seats with canary yellow ones to compliment the Chargers old throwback uniforms! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Powder blue to be exact.


----------



## PotatoGuy

That is awesome, i like it. how old is this







one?


----------



## reluminate

^ 38


----------



## rantanamo

The Mad Hatter!! said:


> i like it but it looks exactly like ravens stadium..i hope they don't put in yellow seats....that would be so tacky


How does it look like the Ravens Stadium? It does look like The Linc though.

The bottom level of Qualcomm seems to have the same problem all the convertibles do: baseball like flat first tier and stands that are too far away. Its the same reason ProPlayer will renovate when/if the Marlins ever move out. I think this is an illustration of how nice and modern our stadiums are. If you can throw out this thing, there is a pretty high standard.


----------



## Principes

Nice.


----------



## CharlieP

asohn said:


> ^ Hey, it's better to have 30,000 less seats than 30,000 empty seats.


30,000 *fewer* seats...


----------



## hngcm

Sexy.

But not up to NFL standards.

*the Q*


----------



## SDK4

The committee did a pretty good job coming up with a back plan for the new Mets Stadium.


----------



## SDK4

As I have said before, I think it would be awesome to have the Olympic baseball finals at the new Yankee stadium.


----------



## Gherkin

I like the first design, had a nice skyscraper next to it. The American football stadium looks a bit blocky, ugly, but a baseball ground looks good!


----------



## dewback

Qualcomm isn't in such bad state, but compared to the new Petco Park (the new ballpark for the San Diego Padres located in downtown) is just looks as old as anything in Balboa Park. In any case, I don't think the city will support the replacement of "the Q" until we get a new mayor.


----------



## vivayo

i always like this stadium, i have been there at least 75 times, but when i was there a few months ago, it seem obvious that it was no longer a modern, functional stadium


----------



## dewback

asohn said:


> I don't think the IOC wants a second-hand stadium.


Paris, Moscow, and Madrid are offering second-hand stadiums. Just look at the Stade de France, it will be old by 2012, but Paris is still considered the favorite.


----------



## hngcm

dewback said:


> Qualcomm isn't in such bad state, but compared to the new Petco Park (the new ballpark for the San Diego Padres located in downtown) is just looks as old as anything in Balboa Park. In any case, I don't think the city will support the replacement of "the Q" until we get a new mayor.


Well, we'll get a new mayor in a couple of months.


----------



## dewback

True, but there are some candidates that are not very fond of the project.


----------



## Cheese Mmmmmmmmmmmm

dewback said:


> True, but there are some candidates that are not very fond of the project.


No mayor or governor wants to spend money on stadiums or arenas, but you'd think San Diego would have a air-tight case because this would get them back in the lucrative SuperBowl rotation.

Unfortunately, the Petco Park project was a disaster, so that isn't helping matters.


----------



## dewback

Yeah, and the finances of the city aren't the best right now.


----------



## interpol

dewback said:


> Paris, Moscow, and Madrid are offering second-hand stadiums. Just look at the Stade de France, it will be old by 2012, but Paris is still considered the favorite.


I don't think the IOC is ever too concerned with the newest venues anymore. This push for the newest everything is what got cities like Montreal into so much trouble (Quebec was still paying off the debt of its 1976 Olympics some 20 or more years later). Montreal's stadium was only half finished too, during the Games! Grass was laid in Atlanta's only days before the Opening Ceremony and the roof on the Athens Olympic Stadium, was we all remember, was only put into place about 2 months before the Opening Ceremony last August. 

Hence; the IOC would rather _see_ the Stadium with their own eyes during the bid process. 

I support London, but if you ask me, I honestly think if the city wins the bid, the Olympic Park and stadium will look nothing like the proposals.


----------



## Jose Luis

I don't like the new facilities, its such a put down to see that NY doesn't have any chance to win the bid by now, it was a big dream of mine to go to NY and see the Olympic games... anyway London gots my entire support right now.


----------



## Perth4life14

fucken hell , americans build fucken massive stadiums!! love this one!!


----------



## ArchMadness

Here are a series of updates starting at groundbreaking...
June 04









July 04









Aug 04









Sept 04









Oct 04









Nov 04









Dec 04









Jan 05









Feb 05









March 05









Apr 05









May 05









June 05


----------



## Bigmac1212

*Oregon State's Updated (American) Football Stadium*

Oregon State's Reser Stadium is in the process of being upgraded. The end of Phase I will be this fall. Here's how the stadium will look like:
























Here's how it looks like now:








It makes the stadium look a little wierd, but I'm told that they will complete the look by 2007.


----------



## SDfan

The city is not going to be paying fully for a stadium. The only way spanos, the team owner threatening to leave the city for LA or werever, is going to get a new stadium is if he pays for half, or more. 1.1 billion in debut...I don't think so.

I like the new stadium desgin however.


----------



## kickazzz2000

PHXbevo said:


> well dont blame nyc because you're too fucking stupid to navigate the subway system.
> 
> take your anti americanism elsewhere.


your ignorance is ASTOUNDING

genius, what fucking subway is going to get you from a hotel 2 miles away from the meadowlands to fucking giants stadium.


answer the question, texan.


----------



## BobDaBuilder

The IOC says to NY, "thankyou for your application, but we have found a more appropriate host city on this occasion."


----------



## rantanamo

Has anyone actually listened to what the judges have been saying about the vote and why London won? I think most that are looking at shiny venues have missed the point all together.


----------



## Gherkin

^^^ is someone jealous?


----------



## BobDaBuilder

How greedy can you get? The Yanks have staged the Olympics in 1980(winter), 1984(summer), 1996(summer), 2002(winter) in recent times.

Now that the English have the games it is time to toss out baseball and put in cricket. That was a crime how baseball became an Olympic sport and they still cannot win their own game! Which countries outside of Japan, Korea, Cuba and the USA actually bother with the sport? And softball, please. That is really taking the proverbial. There is no baseball/softball diamonds in Europe/Africa/West Asia or South America.

Rugby also has to become an Olympic sport in place of one of them 'horsey events' like equestrian or yacht racing. 

This Olympics will be a good chance to restore decency to the games after they have been hijacked by our well meaning cousins who have no idea.


----------



## eddyk

London will be the first Olympics to have a BMX competition.

They should add darts....its like archery


----------



## samsonyuen

New York City’s dreams for 2012 Olympics dashed
Ottawa Citizen
Wednesday, July 06, 2005

NEW YORK -- Standing in Rockefeller Center on a gray Wednesday morning, Nick Patrickas absorbed the bad news: New York’s bid to host the Summer Games came up short. The weather fit his mood.

"Everybody seems disappointed," said Patrickas, a painter from Huntington, on Long Island, who came into Manhattan hopeful of a New York victory.

One month after their bid to build a $2 billion stadium on the West Side of Manhattan was torpedoed, city Olympic officials had their bid shot down in Singapore by the International Olympic Committee.

"I’m terribly disappointed," said Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who viewed the bid as a part of New York’s recovery from the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. "It was a unique opportunity for New York. ... I don’t know what’s going to happen down the road."

He and fellow delegates, clearly dejected at a post-election news conference in Singapore, said it was too soon to say whether the city would try for the 2016 Olympics, which stand a good chance of being awarded to the United States for the first time since the Atlanta Games in 1996.

A planned Rockefeller Center victory party Wednesday instead turned into an outdoor wake. A giant Jumbotron, used earlier to beam in a feed of the vote, carried a message of defeat: "Thank you New Yorkers for your support."

Leo Zuniga, 44, of Westbury, wasn’t surprised by the result: "The other cities have a longer history of bidding for the games." New York was the second city eliminated, after Moscow. Eventually, London was crowned the home of the 2012 Games.

"I wish London well," Bloomberg said - but then expressed hope that U.S. athletes would win every medal at the 2012 Games.

He and other delegates - including New York bid organizer Dan Doctoroff and U.S. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton - said they were not sure why New York fared so poorly.

"It’s very difficult to analyze," Clinton said. "I’m not going to be looking into the minds of anyone who cast a vote."

Barely a month ago, it was unclear if the city would even make a presentation in Singapore. A bitter political fight ended with the scuttling of the planned stadium on Manhattan’s West Side, once considered the key to New York’s bid.

But the city moved forward with a revised plan featuring a less expensive stadium in Queens that would double as a replacement for Shea Stadium, current home of the New York Mets.

City Council member John Liu, a Democrat, quickly called for the city to mount a bid for the 2016 Games.

"Mayor Bloomberg and Dan Doctoroff deserve credit for saving the 2012 bid after the rejection of the West Side stadium," said Liu. "In the same way, they should persist in an effort to bring the Games to New York in 2016."

Bloomberg has said that crucial deals for public funding and land - including the proposed Olympic Village site in Queens - were valid only for the 2012 bid.

"I think this was our moment," Doctoroff said.

Peter Ueberroth, president of the U.S. Olympic Committee, said New York - despite its energetic campaign - would not gain any special status if it entered the race to be the U.S. candidate for 2016.

"We will have a new process for the next four years," he said. "We’ll open it up."


----------



## cwilson758

what other US cities were planning a bid for the 2012. I do remember reading a while back something about Cincinnati trying at a bid...CINCINNATI, WTF?


----------



## Guest

All sports suck.

All atheletes are Nazis, coke-heads and wife-beaters.

All sports fans are homophobic apes of shockingly low intelligence.

The Olympics is a pile of fascistic commercialized trash.

Always was, always will be.

If they brought it to New York, I'd fucking move.

But not before spray-painting "PISS OFF JOCK *****" over every available surface of every new contruction site I could get my hands on.

Congratulations to London, by the way.


----------



## pottebaum

^Jeeze--somebody's bitter.


----------



## TexasBoi

kickazzz2000 said:
 

> answer the question, texan.


and then you call somebody else ignorant with your two whole posts bringing back a thread from last month just to start shit. :sleepy: yeah i wouldn't go around claiming anybody else is ignorant.


----------



## Fir3blaze

Flatiron said:


> All sports suck.
> 
> All atheletes are Nazis, coke-heads and wife-beaters.
> 
> All sports fans are homophobic apes of shockingly low intelligence.
> 
> The Olympics is a pile of fascistic commercialized trash.
> 
> Always was, always will be.
> 
> If they brought it to New York, I'd fucking move.
> 
> But not before spray-painting "PISS OFF JOCK *****" over every available surface of every new contruction site I could get my hands on.
> 
> Congratulations to London, by the way.


What a post...where are the moderators btw?


----------



## reluminate

Flatiron said:


> All sports suck.
> 
> All atheletes are Nazis, coke-heads and wife-beaters.
> 
> All sports fans are homophobic apes of shockingly low intelligence.
> 
> The Olympics is a pile of fascistic commercialized trash.
> 
> Always was, always will be.
> 
> If they brought it to New York, I'd fucking move.
> 
> But not before spray-painting "PISS OFF JOCK *****" over every available surface of every new contruction site I could get my hands on.
> 
> Congratulations to London, by the way.


Uh, are you 12?


----------



## samsonyuen

Yes, there was bidding for the USOC's bid. The final two were SF and NY. The second-last round has those two cities, plus Houston and DC. The first round also had Tampa, Cincinnati, and I think a few other cities.


----------



## cwilson758

well, if Tampa and Cincy can make a bid, then come on Nap-Town!!!


----------



## SpectreAT

Flatiron said:


> All sports suck.
> 
> All atheletes are Nazis, coke-heads and wife-beaters.
> 
> All sports fans are homophobic apes of shockingly low intelligence.
> 
> The Olympics is a pile of fascistic commercialized trash.
> 
> Always was, always will be.
> 
> If they brought it to New York, I'd fucking move.
> 
> But not before spray-painting "PISS OFF JOCK *****" over every available surface of every new contruction site I could get my hands on.
> 
> Congratulations to London, by the way.


 :weird: :sleepy:


----------



## sfenn1117

BobDaBuilder said:


> Which countries outside of Japan, Korea, Cuba and the USA actually bother with the sport? And softball, please. That is really taking the proverbial. There is no baseball/softball diamonds in Europe/Africa/West Asia or South America.


Umm do you have any idea how big baseball is in ALL latin american countries? Seems like half of all players in the Major Leagues are hispanic in some way. Dominican Republic, Panama, Venezuela, Mexico, even Canada. And in Japan baseball is huge. 

Who plays cricket besides the Brits?


----------



## kickazzz2000

TexasBoi said:


> and then you call somebody else ignorant with your two whole posts bringing back a thread from last month just to start shit. :sleepy: yeah i wouldn't go around claiming anybody else is ignorant.


Actually, its quite relevant considering london just won the bid that day.

And if anyone started shit, it was him. My only point was, if you are going you hurl insults, you had damn well better have your own shit straight.

Forgive me, however, for generalizing all texans as dumb as that tool.


----------



## Guest

sfenn1117 said:


> Who plays cricket besides the Brits?


Australia? India? Pakistan? New Zealand? South Africa? Zimbabwe? Bangladesh? Sri Lanka? West Indies?

I think that would make an area totalling over 2 billion people. Quite a popular sport.


----------



## TalB

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/325693p-278360c.html
*Fool's gold*
Jersey City: I am glad the 2012 Olympics are not coming to New York City. The organizers' manufactured enthusiasm turned me off to the idea from the get-go. It is clear we are not ready or structured to host such an event. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.

*Bill Bayiokos*

*The right call*
Manhattan: The reason New York lost its Olympic bid was the blatantly political West Side stadium fiasco and the scraped-together-at-the-last-minute plan to build a new Shea Stadium (which should have been the plan all along). The International Olympic Committee made the right decision.

*Noel MacNeal*

*Wake up!*
Manhattan: Now that their Olympic "dream" is over, could the "dreamers" at City Hall concentrate on improving transportation, education, health and social services - things that are meaningful to all New Yorkers instead of profitable for an elite group?

*Jonathan Tessler*

*Back to reality*
North Bellmore, L.I.: Now that Mayor Bloomberg and his billionaire buddies are done wasting time on their little sporting event, can they get back to running the city? I can name a few streets that need repaving and some teachers and firefighters who could use raises.

*Chris Poppe*

*Food fight*
Manhattan: French President Jacques Chirac can insult the British all he wants - the selection of London over Paris showed the world that insufferable arrogance doesn't pay off.

*Trevor Dick*


----------



## TalB

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/letters/25756.htm
*LOSING TO LONDON: GOTHAM'S BOTCHED BID*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 7, 2005 -- After all the hoopla, we finally see that New York was never really a candidate for the 2012 Olympic Games.

Maybe now we can finally get on with rebuilding downtown. 

There are those of us who need real, long-term employment — not the promise of useless football stadiums or games that many never wanted here in the first place. 
*Peter Tholke 

Bronx*

***** 

Cablevision has destroyed the Knicks and the Rangers. 

And now it has destroyed New York's bid to host the 2012 Olympics. 

Thanks guys. 
*Joseph Martini 

Oceanside* 

***** 

Although New York didn't land the bid for the 2012 Olympic Games, New Yorkers can at least take solace in London winning. 

Our closest ally will undoubtedly be a great host, and we should be happy for the people of England. 

We should be even happier to note that Paris lost — yet again. 
*James Kozack 

Manhattan*

***** 

Now that our push for the 2012 Olympics has come to an end, there's really only one thing to do: start looking toward 2016. 

No city deserves the Games more than New York. 
*Rachel Snyder 

Brooklyn *

***** 

On July 6, the International Olympic Committee didn't pick New York City to host the 2012 Summer Olympics. 

But it was on June 6, the day that the New York state Legislature voted against funding the proposed 75,000-seat, retractable-dome stadium that the Olympic bid was all but squashed. 

Nothing could have shouted "lack of commitment" more to this fickle IOC bunch than having the stadium shot down. 

When did this town go from being the capital of the world to taking a back seat to London and Paris? 
*Eugene Dunn 

Medford*

***** 

I just hope that Charles Dolan of Cablevision is a happy man. 

He killed the West Side stadium and the 2012 Olympics bid as well. 
*James Craven 

Philadelphia*

***** 

It really should come as no surprise that New York City didn't win the Olympic bid. 

After all, the world and the IOC have seen the way our city has handled a small area called Ground Zero. 

If we can't decide on the proper way to rebuild this site — and it seems we never will — then we have no hope of gaining the trust we need in order to host the Olympic Games. 
*Bob Mayfield

Brooklyn*


----------



## TexasBoi

kickazzz2000 said:


> Actually, its quite relevant considering london just won the bid that day.
> 
> And if anyone started shit, it was him. My only point was, if you are going you hurl insults, you had damn well better have your own shit straight.
> 
> Forgive me, however, for generalizing all texans as dumb as that tool.


Fair enough


----------



## Cheese Mmmmmmmmmmmm

TalB said:


> ...the selection of London over Paris showed the world that insufferable arrogance doesn't pay off.


... This coming from an American!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## TalB

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/326117p-278728c.html
*Royal treatment*
Maspeth: Now that Mayor Bloomberg and his well-heeled cronies have failed in their effort to foist an Olympic boondoggle on the good people of New York City, perhaps His Royal Highness King Michael the Smug can get back to tackling the everyday problems and worries of his 8 million constituents, the job for which he was elected.

*Robert Giliberti*

*Ouch!*
Manhattan: Mayor Bloomberg should really ask the people for some input before he goes off on his next big project. This is New York City, not Bloomberg Inc.

*Steven Fromewick*

*Open letter* 
Manhattan: Dear Mike: Now that your delusional Olympic bid and West Side stadium chase are dead ducks, maybe you can get back to the business of actually running the city and dealing with those minor annoying issues like education, transportation, urban blight, blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, yadda. Yes, we know they are not nearly as sexy as those colorful Olympic rings or a shiny new stadium, but they are what normal New Yorkers have to deal with every day. And now that we're done paying for your expensive Republican convention and defeating your absurd West Side stadium initiative, we can get down to some real fun - voting you out of office. Oh, and don't worry about your legacy, Mike. Your place in history as New York's most clueless and aloof mayor is secure.

*Tony Richards*


----------



## TalB

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/08/opinion/08fri4.html?oref=login
*The Olympic Games*

Published: July 8, 2005

New Yorkers whose hopes of getting the 2012 Olympics were dashed this week will surely rally around London. But it is still going to require a major effort for some of the city's leaders to get past their personal disappointment. Deputy Mayor Daniel Doctoroff - the bid's chief architect - and Mayor Michael Bloomberg expended a great deal of time and energy trying to bring the Olympics here. But the city's bid was always a dark horse at best, and in the end New York finished fourth among the five competing cities. 

It's easy to come up with reasons why New York did so poorly. Organizers never really managed to communicate their excitement to the public, and Olympic delegates took note. Insisting that the main stadium could be built only as part of a plan to move the Jets to the West Side of Manhattan was a huge mistake. When that plan fell apart, the scramble to get a backup site may have forced officials to sign onto an overly costly deal with the Mets for a new baseball stadium in Queens. 

Still, the failed Olympic pursuit had value. An Olympic stadium on the West Side was a bad idea, but it is good that the mayor's enthusiasm for the site drew attention to an underdeveloped slice of the city. Now rezoned, that area will get residential and other construction. The Olympic pursuit also helped to speed the rezoning of Brooklyn's waterfront and moved along other projects that would otherwise have been sidelined, maybe for years.

With the city budget in distress, it's questionable whether other desirable large projects, like the extension of the No. 7 subway line, can get beyond the planning stage without another large impetus. Of course, New York, a little older and wiser, could get back in the ring and try to win the 2016 Games.


----------



## TalB

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/326399p-279018c.html
*Sticking up for Mike*
Manhattan: Fernando Ferrer seized the moment following New York's loss of the Olympics to attack Mayor Bloom- berg for having "failed to fight for the priorities of New Yorkers" ("Dem hopefuls go for Mike's throat," July 7). Where were Ferrer and the other candidates while Bloomberg used the past 3 1/2 years to improve our schools, lower crime in our neighborhoods and save us from a budget deficit?

*Chuck Mayer*

*Yippee! We lost!*
Staten Island: I couldn't be happier that the 2012 Olympics will not be in New York. Just what we'd need - another 3 million people in the city. If New York gets the Olympics in the future, they should be held in Buffalo or Albany.

*Rick Galli*

*Faux pas*
Corona: Re the July 7 headline on New York losing the Olympics, "At least it isn't Paris": Can we stop the French-bashing, please? It's just another form of bigotry. I'm no Francophile, but I wouldn't call a nation that stands up to the world's only remaining superpower cowardly.

*Melanie N. Lee*

*No contest*
Manhattan: It's no surprise that New York lost the Olympic bid. An obvious lack of planning and enthusiasm caused the defeat.

*Ruth Friedman*


----------



## TalB

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/local/story/326663p-279292c.html
*City still carries torch, but for the 2016 Games*

A solid majority of New Yorkers think the city should go back to the starting line and bid for the 2016 Olympics - even though they're not sad to see the 2012 Games go elsewhere, a new Daily News poll shows.

Taken after New York lost the 2012 Games to London last week, the poll found that 58% of New Yorkers think the city should now chase the 2016 Games.

A roughly equal 56% think the city's 2012 bid, which spurred the rezoning of Manhattan's far West Side and ultimately wrought plans for a new Shea Stadium, has already resulted in long-term benefits to the city.

But New Yorkers, perhaps weary of all the haggling over the 2012 bid, also seem relieved it's over: 47% say it's good that the city lost the Games, compared with 34% who say it's bad.

Pollsters surmised that the diverging views have more to do with acrimony over the city's most recent bid than New Yorkers' views of the Olympics in general.

"There was never a plan that everyone seemed to get behind last time," said pollster Julie Weprin of Blum & Weprin Associates, referring to Mayor Bloomberg's unpopular plans for a stadium on Manhattan's far West Side, and his last-minute shift to a cheaper, more popular alternative near Shea Stadium.

"Perhaps people think there was a healthy debate, and now the city can go forward with a more coordinated plan," added Weprin. "Because New Yorkers seem to want the Olympics."

The poll offered mostly good news for Bloomberg, whose approval rating is close to its highest level ever at 61% among registered voters.

The random telephone poll of 800 New Yorkers was taken last Wednesday and Thursday and has a margin of error of 3.5 percentage points. Of the respondents, 629 were registered voters.

Although the mayor devoted enormous sums of time and political capital toward pushing his West Side stadium plan, only 38% of those polled said they thought the stadium's demise was a major factor in the city's loss.

At the same time, respondents seem divided over the mayor's handling of the Olympic bid, with 48% giving him a thumbs-up, 39% thumbs down, and 13% were not sure.

Those polled also had strong feelings about using taxpayer dollars to fund future stadiums, with 71% opposed to such expenditures.

As for the 2016 Games, the mayor has so far refused to say whether the city will pursue the event - an effort, some believe, to give the issue a rest until after the fall election.

David Saltonstall

Originally published on July 10, 2005


----------



## Zargyle

Awesome- I hope it gets built!


----------



## krodiger

Just a question. Are there more Giants or Jets fans in NYC?


----------



## HoldenV8

That's kinds like asking are there more Liverpool or Everton fans isn't it? Just becuase one doesn't go to the games doesn't mean they aren't a fan.


----------



## Nils

it simply does mean that. when i live in nyc (or any other city in connection with the city's team as well) and i don't go to the games of the team than i'm not a "fan". a real fan will attend his clubs games whenever it is possible. but i have to admit that perhaps a soccer fan in europe can't be compared with a football fan in the us because obviously europe guys have more solidarity, emotion and love to their club than the guys in the us have.


----------



## BobDaBuilder

Sounds like the NY Giants are a damn well run club who don't have to lean on the local councils.

How many matches per a season does Giants Stadium currently stage?


----------



## Kampflamm

At least 16 (Giants and Jets) plus a couple of MetroStars games (or have they moved to a different location) and some NFL preseason games.


----------



## Mr. T

^^
Kampf how do you know about the NFL and MLS? Dont you live in Germany?


----------



## Kampflamm

I used to live north of NYC for 6 years.


----------



## Cheese Mmmmmmmmmmmm

krodiger said:


> Just a question. Are there more Giants or Jets fans in NYC?


There's an old saying that Jets fans are actually Giants fans who couldn't get tickets (to Giants games!)

:rofl:


----------



## rantanamo

LOL. Just for that, I'm now a Jets fan for life. I hate the Giants...........and Eagles, Red........OK, I hate the whole NFC east except 'dem Boys. I still hate Arizona too. Tikki Barber........Eli............Strahan........where's the vomit emoticon!!!


----------



## reluminate

*New Soccer Stadium for MetroStars*

From the Bergen Record in NJ

* 2 roofs, 43 luxury suites and a concert stage*

Friday, August 5, 2005

By JOHN BRENNAN
STAFF WRITER 

HARRISON - The owner of the MetroStars soccer team is a billionaire, and the state of New Jersey is broke.

*Those two facts proved to be the key elements in completing an agreement that brought acting Governor Codey, numerous other elected officials and MetroStars executives to the steps of the Harrison Public Library on Thursday. They signed a memorandum of understanding to build a 20,000-seat open-air stadium that would open in mid-2007.*

The breakthrough in the multi-year negotiations, several speakers at the news conference said, came when the MetroStars, owned by Denver billionaire Philip Anschutz, agreed to pay for the stadium construction themselves.

"Everyone was unanimous in telling us that this was never going to work if we were asking for a new tax or handouts, or if we'd be putting taxpayers at risk," said Tim Leiweke, president of Anschutz Entertainment Group. "We heard it loud and clear."

Hudson County Executive Thomas DeGise recalled hearing a different message when the MetroStars first sought to move out of Giants Stadium.

"Five or six years ago, they came to the county and to the city of Harrison, asking if we would build them a soccer stadium," DeGise said. "Five or six years later, we haven't built them a soccer stadium, but we've helped them build their own soccer stadium. And that's the way it should be."

DeGise was referring to Hudson County's willingness to issue bonds to finance $80 million for stadium construction, $40 million for land acquisition and $40 million to acquire land and build an adjacent, 1,500-car garage. The MetroStars have agreed to repay the entire stadium construction bill, after previously offering to pay only $30 million.

*Harrison Mayor Ray McDonough said the town's investment was worthwhile because the stadium is to be the centerpiece of a 275-acre redevelopment project just south of Route 280. The project could include as many as 6,000 housing units, 3.5 million square feet of office space and 1.2 million square feet of retail space. Codey called the mixed-use plan "one of the largest redevelopment plans in state history."*

The focus Thursday was on the soccer stadium, which Leiweke said would attract numerous concerts as well as "football, lacrosse, rugby and every other sport and activity we can find."

Leiweke said brick would play a prominent role in the construction design, which will include a permanent concert stage at one end. About one-third of the capacity will be bench seating. Leiweke said the Harrison stadium will improve upon the three-year-old Home Depot Center that AEG built for its Los Angeles Galaxy soccer franchise in Carson, Calif.

MetroStars executive Nick Sakiewicz, who dryly referred to spending "four years, seven months, 27 days" negotiating the Harrison stadium plan, said two roofs on each sideline would cover the majority of the seats. The blueprint also includes 43 luxury suites.

*The stadium will be built across the Passaic River from the $310 million arena being built for the New Jersey Devils in Newark. But Sakiewicz said he did not expect the two buildings to compete, because indoor and outdoor concert businesses are different.*

The MetroStars' plan to build a training site and corporate office in Pequannock also is on schedule, said Sakiewicz, who added that he hopes to see that development open at the end of 2006.

The 66-year-old Anschutz is known as a sports fanatic, as evidenced by AEG's ownership of the Los Angeles Kings of the National Hockey League, the Kings' Staples Center home and four of the 12 franchises in Major League Soccer. He recently sold the Washington, D.C., franchise.

The heavy investment in a decade-old league that has lost an estimated $200 million or more apparently led AEG officials to weigh the MetroStars' fate even more heavily.

"If this league and this sport is going to work, and if our investment is going to work, it has to work in New York," Leiweke said.


----------



## reluminate

Stadium location (with other sport venues):









Some renderings:














































Heres a look at the development site taken from the Gateway Center in Newark by NYatKnight on the Wired New York forums:










With the Midtown skyline in the background:









Some renderings of the development surrounding the stadium:










Aerial view with the Newark Skyline in the background:


----------



## hngcm

nice, a bunch of MLS teams are building their own stadiums


----------



## Genç

Not bad, but I would have expected better for metrostars...
The space isn't being used well enough - look and the end stands, there must be seats for only a 1000 or so people there?! 
What is the capacity btw?


----------



## 40Acres

a fantastic step in the right direction for soccer development in the states. I dont particularly watch, like, or follow the MLS, but a domestic league with soccer specific stadia is what we need to promote the beautiful game... they just make me a fan yet.


----------



## spyguy

Sort of reminds me of the stadium they're constructing right now for the Chicago Fire.


----------



## reluminate

Genç said:


> What is the capacity btw?


20,000


----------



## reluminate

spyguy999 said:


> Sort of reminds me of the stadium they're constructing right now for the Chicago Fire.


Well, both teams are owned by the same person, and the stadiums were done by the same architect.


----------



## You are to blame

I like it alot


----------



## spyguy

asohn said:


> Well, both teams are owned by the same person, and the stadiums were done by the same architect.


Ha, wasn't expecting that one. Shows how much I know about MLS.


----------



## HoldenV8

*Best Baseball Stadium?*

Ok, for those of you who have been to MLB stadiums in the USA & Canada, and also to the Minor League stadiums, which, in your opinion, would you rate as the best and why? Personally I have never been outside of Australia but I love baseball and baseball stadiums, old and new. Being a Dodger fan I have to admit that Dodger Stadium is, sight unseen in person, my favourite.

Are the 'new' stadiums such as Oriole Park @ Camden Yards & Jacobs Field better than the older ones such as Wrigley, Fenway & Tiger Stadium? What about those built in the 1960's like Busch, Shea, RFK & Dodger Stadium? Are the newer retractable roof stadiums such as Bank One Ballpark & Miller Park better than the Metrodome, Kingdome or the Astrodome? And are these any better than those no longer standing or in use such as Cleveland Stadium, Ebbets Field or Shibe Park?

And are these in your opinion better than minor stadiums such as Durham Bulls Athletic Park or Fifth Third Field or the Baseball Grounds of Jacksonville?

You decide, and tell us why.


----------



## rantanamo

My favorite new era one is definitely Jacobs. It has an old time feel and a modern look. I don't know if the new ballparks are 'better' than the old ones. They are certainly more comfortable. I'm not really a nostalgia fan the way many are. The game has evolved and so should the ballparks, IMO. 

The 'domes' have definitely evolved for the better. Before they were simply multi-purpose domes. No better than the 70s cookie-cutters or even the era of ballparks before those of the 70s(some horrible multi-purpose stadiums that caused horrible dimensions). Now, places like Safeco and Miller Park are among the best, most modern stadiums in the world(though this board seems to ignore them consistently). Even Tropicana Field is a much better "ballpark" than the baggie dome of kingdome.

Minor League parks are also pretty much unknown around here. There are hundreds of these small, totally modern and full of major league amenities ballparks despite the U.S. vs EU thread saying the US doesn't have really nice smaller venues. I think they are excellent, but they are losing what the minor leagues are all about. Places like Frisco are harder to get into than the Texas Rangers, and tickets are often more expensive. Helluva ballpark in Frisco though.

Don't forget about asian and central and south american ballparks. The Japanese ballparks are especially nice. There are a few retractables like Fukuoku Dome and a retractable field in the Sapporo Dome. I like their ballparks, though most aren't as much of works of art, and they were pretty much forced by weather to play the indoor, artificial turf game.

IMO, baseball stadiums are simply the nicest stadiums there are. They are built for 80+ home games per year as opposed to the much less used grounds of other sports. Their locker and training facilities under the stadiums are therefore much more extensive than other sports. Their luxury and press areas are even more hotel like and they pretty much invented the stadium restaurant that are often overlooking the diamond. No real rules of field dimensions also allow funky stand configurations and room for frivalous and uneccesary craziness like pools, trains, and even office buildings or hotels right in the stadium.


----------



## edsg25

The best of the old, Wrigley

The best of the new, SBC


----------



## edsg25

rantanamo said:


> IMO, baseball stadiums are simply the nicest stadiums there are. They are built for 80+ home games per year as opposed to the much less used grounds of other sports. Their locker and training facilities under the stadiums are therefore much more extensive than other sports. Their luxury and press areas are even more hotel like and they pretty much invented the stadium restaurant that are often overlooking the diamond. No real rules of field dimensions also allow funky stand configurations and room for frivalous and uneccesary craziness like pools, trains, and even office buildings or hotels right in the stadium.


ain't that the truth!!! MLB is the only major sport that allows its ball parks to determine *their entire exterior dimentions* (outfield and behind the foul lines) allows for a degree of personality that niether the NFL, NBA, or NHL (have you ever heard of it?) can duplicate with their fixed rectangular boundaries.

That's why I give high marks to my favorite football team, *THE CHICAGO BEARS*, for breaking the mold and creating a startling beautiful assymetrical field with the Soldier Field seating bowl (and whether you like or dislike the stadium's contraversial exterior, it is hard not to fall in love with the interior. Chicago, the odd ball of cities, manages to have two symmetrical baseball parks (at a time when the concept is tabu), with the most asymmetrical of football stadiums (where balance is usually a prerequisite).


----------



## dewback

SBC is usually considered the best of the new era baseball stadiums. I also like Petco Park (local bias) because of several reasons, but more importantly because it doesn't try to create "a good old feeling" that recalls the origins of the team. After all, the local team is pretty new, and it would be pathetic if they made a copy of the old Yankee Stadium or something like that.


----------



## HoldenV8

I have to admit that I do like 'Soldier Field II' as it makes a nice change from either boring bowl stadiums such as Lambeau, Giants & Fedex Field and symmetrical stadiums like M&T Bank Stadium.


----------



## Sitback

Cool! How many over MLS teams have stadiums of their own or are building ones?

Any pics?


----------



## rantanamo

I like Petco too. Very different kind of style, and the open outfield is outstanding. 

The NFL is getting much better on the personality side of things. I know the European soccer fans don't like the non-perfect bowls, but I like the breaks in seating the way M&T, Gillette and The Linc have done. Its the only way they can compete with the personality that ballparks have.


----------



## Mr. T

My favorite is still Camden Yards even though it is over 10 years old. It is a magnificent stadium with a great view of the Baltimore skyline. Not to mention it started the new generation of ball parks.


----------



## Melchisedeck

Minute Maid Park in Huston......


----------



## hngcm

Chicago Fire, Metrostars, Dallas just completed their new stadium.

LA Galaxy and Chivas USA have their own.

I think Real Salt Lake has their own.

Columbus Crew has their own.


----------



## hngcm

edsg25 said:


> ain't that the truth!!! MLB is the only major sport that allows its ball parks to determine *their entire exterior dimentions* (outfield and behind the foul lines) allows for a degree of personality that niether the NFL, NBA, or NHL (have you ever heard of it?) can duplicate with their fixed rectangular boundaries.


Well in soccer, the only thing is that the field must be rectangular

it can be 120x80, or 100x60, or 120x60, or 100x80....


----------



## rantanamo

From reading regulations, most major soccer championships do require certain dimensions either at minimum or exact. The NBA actually only has a minimum and maximum length and width as with standardized circle and lane sizes. I wonder which courts take advantage or if they are all the same. I know a couple of years ago, scoring was way down and David Stern would often diatribe about the need for larger courts. That may have happened in some places. Not really sure. In the MLB though, one could have the stands hug the foul lines as long as there is an on deck spot and coaches boxes. The infield requirements are pretty much it. A wall twice as high as the green monster and closer in could be built if a team wanted to. Elevation changes can even be added like Minute Maid's center field. An outfield wall could be straight across, or very deep and round like the Old Polo Grounds. A field can be tiny or huge. Its all up to what the team wants to do and how they want to play. The form of the stadium can even determine how many home runs are hit their by cutting off incoming winds or letting in incoming winds(See Ameriquest and GABP). Though this is possible with NFL stadiums. That's why Cleveland has that huge gap on both ends. Old Cleveland Stadium used to swirl. The new stadium makes passing in one direction great and horrible in the other. Texas Stadium has very stagnant wind once the top two tiers of boxes were closed in. It has allowed the Cowboys to easily switch from kicker to kicker. Bill Parcells was talking about this the other day. At the same time, teams have always put up pretty good passing numbers in Texas Stadium. Running there is big advantage for the Cowboys because of the huge crown the field has. Defense is simply harder to play on large crowns. Ahhh, REAL homefield advantages.


----------



## rantanamo

It will be interesting if popularity rises rapidly over the next 5-10 years. Will these teams spend the money to really expand the way NASCAR has or simply go to NFL stadiums? Each stadium looks as if expansion would be very easy to accomplish.


----------



## skyperu34

its a very good one, but i think it lacks more tribunes


----------



## reluminate

Petco. Hopefully it'll break us away from "retro" parks.


----------



## SDfan

I love Petco, but Im a sucker for Wrigley Feild as well.


----------



## hngcm

rantanamo said:


> It will be interesting if popularity rises rapidly over the next 5-10 years. Will these teams spend the money to really expand the way NASCAR has or simply go to NFL stadiums? Each stadium looks as if expansion would be very easy to accomplish.


I'm guessing they'll just expand the stadiums.

Most teams used to play in NFL stadiums but decided to build their own stadiums, so i doubt they'll go back.


----------



## edsg25

As far as NL Calif goes, I agree that Petco is a super park, but I have to say I like SBC's more straight forward design more inviting (while giving high marks to an overlooked classic, DS)


----------



## HoldenV8

I know it no longer gets used for baseball (shame really) but this was the main baseball stadium for the 2000 Olympics in Sydney. This would make a great Minor League ballpark.

*Sydney Showground* Capacity 21,000


----------



## SouthBank

Although the heart says Wrigley, which imo is one of the most atmospheric stadiums in the world, the head probably goes for Miller Park. As well as being a mighty impressive sight, its a nice combination of Retro style and function-over-form modernity:


----------



## wh92stang

I'd have to say SBC Park in San Francisco is my favorite. Fenway in Boston is a close second.

My hometown stadium (Great American Ball Park) in Cincy is nice, but for a brand new stadium I feel they could have done a better job. It would be awesome if Northern Kentucky had a nice skyline along the river, but as it is, the open air outfield is pointed towards the river (which I like) but beyond that is kind of boring.

I've been to Miller Park in Milwaukee a lot too, and I'm not the biggest fan of it. It's in a very boring location surrounded by parking lots, the roof has it's problems, and I just think it's a pretty plain stadium. As far as retractables go I like Minute Maid and Safeco a lot better.


----------



## rantanamo

Ballparks are like Rodney Dangerfield around here

Much love to Safeco. One of the world's greatest stadiums period.



































and much love to some of our Japanese baseball brethren. I love the high tech look, but the interiors are lacking and turf, yuck, lol. Interesting reading about how baseball season is the rainy season so indoors and turf are pretty much a must.

Fukuoka YAHOO! Dome

















Osaka Dome

























Sapporo Dome

























Tokyo Dome


----------



## vivayo

which is the capacity for those japanese stadiums, Osaka, tokyo and Saporo seem pretty big, 

Osaka dome, reminds me to Skydome in Toronto


----------



## Zaqattaq

SF's for sure (once Pacbell now SBC?), and ofcourse PNC cause of the Pittsburgh skyline


----------



## mello

I'm not really a big fan of the retractable stadiums and definitely hate domes. A like a park where the sky is open and has a "big" feel to it. From what I've seen PNC Pittsburgh, SBC San Francisco, and Comerica Detroit seem to be the nicest parks. However, my hometown bias has to go to Petco here in San Diego because the only real retro aspect of it is an actual old building that was moved into the left field corner and became a "part of the park". Petco does not use the traditional old colors of red and green in the ballpark and the only brick is on the aforementioned Western Metal Building. 

The park at the park beyond center field is definitaly unique to Petco. And Petco has highrises literally right beyond the park. It has a 32 story building attached by a bridge and numerous highrises will be just beyond the perimeter of the Park by 2007. It will have gorgeous modern buildings right in your face for all to view. No park will even come close to these kind of views.


----------



## SDK4

Yankee Stadium by far.


----------



## DrJoe

Lets give some props to Skydome here. In the world of retro baseball stadiums, Skydome is something unique and different.










Most fascinating roof IMO also. Quick example.

Hello









Goodbye









Hello










Goodbye


----------



## ASupertall4SD

mello i agree. right now, pnc and sbc are my favorite as far as views are concerned. You did however misrepresent the greatness of the design. The building was not moved. It is in the exact same spot it has been since 1906. They designed the park around it, and late in the design decided the corner of it would actually be the foul pole. another building was moved to be a part of the right field building in the outfield. that was a very old building too. In 2009 or 2010, Petco will literally be unmatched, with only pnc as a rival. I think something in the range of 40 building of various heights ranging from three story lofts to 500 footers will be within the view of the seating bowl. Plus, the vegetation will be fully grown including the boguvilia(spelling) flowers that will top the tower at the entrance. a 25 story and a 20 story building will flank the great outfield park at the park.


----------



## rantanamo

Everyone forgets about "The Jake" when talking about newer parks that are great and not retro


----------



## TexasBoi

Old : Wrigley
New: Miller in Milwaukee...That is a great damn stadium. I also like Petco and Safeco.

The Ameriquest Field would be up there if it wasn't in that stupid suburb instead of the city of Dallas.


----------



## edsg25

mello said:


> I'm not really a big fan of the retractable stadiums and definitely hate domes. A like a park where the sky is open and has a "big" feel to it. From what I've seen PNC Pittsburgh, SBC San Francisco, and Comerica Detroit seem to be the nicest parks. However, my hometown bias has to go to Petco here in San Diego because the only real retro aspect of it is an actual old building that was moved into the left field corner and became a "part of the park". Petco does not use the traditional old colors of red and green in the ballpark and the only brick is on the aforementioned Western Metal Building.
> 
> The park at the park beyond center field is definitaly unique to Petco. And Petco has highrises literally right beyond the park. It has a 32 story building attached by a bridge and numerous highrises will be just beyond the perimeter of the Park by 2007. It will have gorgeous modern buildings right in your face for all to view. No park will even come close to these kind of views.


mello, i found myself agree with you on this one more than I wanted to. The retractible domes did a good job of trying to make themselves as little noticed as possible....but, you're right, they're still there, aren't they.

IMHO, the best of the genre: Houston's Minute Maid. The least obtrussive of all of them; the dome does a farily good job of hiding from view.

I'd put Safeco second on tis list.


----------



## TalB

I am probably one of the few to give Shea Stadium a postive review.


----------



## United-States-of-America

It has to be the Yankee Stadium. It's big, filled with stories from history, and fun.


----------



## SDK4

I honestly think we could be seeing some of the best stadiums being built in the next five years with the Cardinals next year and the Yankees and Mets by 2010.


----------



## CF

Bank One Ballpark:


----------



## rantanamo

I always forget about the BOB when talking about retractable roofed stadiums. Another great stadium never mentioned on this board.


----------



## Jaye101

Bank One Ballpark and Skydome knock the compitition away!!!!!


----------



## TalB

NewYorker1 said:


> It has to be the Yankee Stadium. It's big, filled with stories from history, and fun.


It's just too easy to Yankees fan, and they always keep poking at us Mets fan on how good they are. oke:


----------



## el pato

*BOB*

It's too bad people forget about BOB. I believe it's the first stadium with natural grass and a retractable roof. I only have one thing I don't like about it. When there aren't many fans in the stands there is far to much green with the dark green seats, dark green background, and dark green frame. I think it needs more purple to go with the Diamondbacks colors. 

It was my favorite new park until PNC and Petco came along.

My favorite old is deffinantly Fenway.


----------



## Scba

I like Baltimore and Cincy the best, I think. Great American Ballpark is very underrated, and refreshing.

Minors- Norfolk, Altoona, and Portland (OR)


----------



## rantanamo

I don't think most people get GABP. I was reading a site's article on it one day and they mentioned "Riverboat" theme. I literally had to search out some pics of it to see what they were talking about. Everything really is trying for a riverboat look






































anyways, some of the parks mentioned

Oriole Park at Camden Yards - Baltimore

































PNC Park(best damn view in sports)



























Petco Park


----------



## Zizu

Although I'm not interested in Baseball I've to admit...some really great stadiums here! Especially those retractable roof constructions...really massive


----------



## th0m

This does kind of dwarf the rest of the entire stadium. Does anyone know what the cap will be at after this phase? And when its all done?  (are there any other phases?) Kind of hauling up older threads, when I last saw the webcam, they were doing groundwork I think, so its gone real fast.


----------



## BobDaBuilder

Such a pity the Americans and Canadians are not into cricket.


----------



## SDK4

You may not see a cricket stadium in the US for 30, 40 years, maybe never. Americans will always choose baseball.


----------



## CF

BobDaBuilder said:


> Such a pity the Americans and Canadians are not into cricket.


Such a pity you Australians are not into Hockey.


----------



## BobDaBuilder

Correct me if I am wrong, but Oz actually won the Olympic gold medal in hockey in both men's and women's. :cheers:

Interestingly for those of you who are interested. The first international match ever played in cricket was between Canada and the USA in the 19th century somtime. Even before the Ashes started in the 1870's.

Americans only got into baseball after the ICC(Imperial Cricket Council) ejected the USA as they were not part of the Empire. So all those cricket clubs, became baseball clubs and the rest, as they say, is history.


----------



## Bigmac1212

*Possible New Oakland Athletics Ballpark*

Found this on another site:
































This may take the cake when it comes with new ballparks ideas. :eek2:

Edit: They got a pool. As a D'back fan, it's a ripoff off our idea.


----------



## Zaqattaq

This is awesome. I think it is necessary to compete with the SBC


----------



## rantanamo

I hope they can get it. I was just thinking about this while watching the Raiders game. McAfee could be renovated into a really nice stadium if the A's built a nice new home. 

Really like that design too. The most old school looking of the retros. Looks very intimate.


----------



## rantanamo

^not exactly. I think he was talking about Ice Hockey. Canada won the gold.

And the problem with the Americans not being accepted is that they didn't form professional leagues. Its not a shame, because baseball has a beautiful history, and the sport continues to spread.


----------



## hngcm

A building in the outfield, rip off of Petco Park.

and only 35,000?


----------



## hngcm

BobDaBuilder said:


> Such a pity the Americans and Canadians are not into cricket.


Pity?

I think it's a blessing.


----------



## HoldenV8

I like it also but it needs 45,000 seats, not 35. Still, the ballpark itself is an improvement on McAfee Coliseum which these days is more a stadium for the Raiders than the Athletics.


----------



## Zaqattaq

I myself like stadiums that are full


----------



## rantanamo

hngcm said:


> A building in the outfield, rip off of Petco Park.
> 
> and only 35,000?


Ever heard of Oriole Park at Camden Yards or Ameriquest Field? 

I like the small size too. If that's what they drawin the playoffs, then a full stadium is good.


----------



## rantanamo

> OAKLAND -- Oakland Athletics owner Lew Wolff today proposed building a new stadium for the Major League Baseball team near their current home at the Oakland Coliseum.
> 
> Wolff presented his plan to the Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum Authority, the public agency that manages the Coliseum-Area complex. The plan would include a 35,000-seat stadium in addition to a retail complex and either a hotel or residences with views of the field, similar to the Toronto Skydome.
> 
> "It is our hope to create more than just a ballpark, but one of the next major urban centers in the Bay Area that will greatly add to the economic base and the community image of the city we have called home for the last 38 years," Wolff said in a statement.
> 
> Wolff did not provide a cost for the project, which media reports have estimated at $300 to $400 million, but did say he would not seek a large public subsidy the way the Oakland Raiders did when they returned from Los Angeles 10 years ago.
> 
> "Our ownership group is willing to incur the vast majority of costs associated with the project; however to create the major urban development we envision is virtually impossible without some sort of public and governmental support," Wolff said in his statement.
> 
> South Bay officials who hope to lure the A's to San Jose were not surprised by today's proposal.
> 
> Santa Clara County Assessor Larry Stone, a board member of the Baseball San Jose group, said that his group always knew that Wolff had to make a new stadium proposal to Oakland.
> 
> "To be fair to the Oakland community and to satisfy Major League Baseball... Lew Wolff had to make a sincere, concerted effort to make a deal to get a ballpark in Oakland," Stone said.
> 
> Stone expects Wolff's proposal to fail.
> 
> "I don't think it will happen," Stone said.
> 
> In San Jose the A's would play in a downtown ballpark not in an industrial area such as the 66th and High streets site that Wolff proposed today.
> 
> "The best sites for modern ballparks are downtown. Look at Baltimore, Cleveland, Denver, Seattle," Stone said.
> 
> Stone had to be reminded that San Francisco also has a downtown ballpark and chuckled as he agreed that it was successful.
> 
> The South Bay also has much greater corporate support than Oakland, which is crucial to modern sports franchises, according to Stone.
> 
> "Name me three major corporations in Oakland. I can name two: Kaiser and Clorox. We have Cisco, Intel, HP, the list is endless," Stone said.
> 
> The San Jose Redevelopment Agency should have land secured for a possible ballpark on the western edge of Downtown San Jose, near the Diridon train station, within the next 30 to 60 days -- when Wolff's Oakland proposal collapses, San Jose will be waiting, Stone said.
> 
> "(Wolff) said he would take up to a year to attempt to make a deal that works in Oakland," Stone said.



I'm rooting for Oakland on this one.


----------



## sequoias

Interesting fact: The retractable roof for the Safeco Field in Seattle can support the weight of 8 ft of snow on the roof (it'll never happen) though the record amount of snow on the ground was 21 inches (nearly 2 ft). I don't know why they built the roof to stand that much snow. :-|


----------



## rantanamo

I'd imagine that's when its fully expanded. The structure should be much stronger when its retraceted and the parts are on top of each other.


----------



## reluminate

And for our European friends, it seems as if the roof covers mostly all of the seats..


----------



## rantanamo

speculation on a message board I was reading is that the roof would be part of a system to steer winds. I know that Cleveland Browns Stadium, GABP and SBC have wind steering designs, so its not a crazy concept. They were saying the material is translucent and that it doesn't rain much if at all there and its obviously not a sun shade. So I guess that makes sense with them being right on a bay.


----------



## TalB

Here is Yankee Stadium for those who actually like them, b/c it's so easy to be a Yankees fan for the last 80 years.


----------



## nygirl

don't like it. Whats with the swimming pool? Arizona has one too no? Do people really go swimming at baseball games? If so you wasted your ticket.


----------



## ASupertall4SD

i think it looks nice. i dont much care for people saying rip off of this and that. it is nice. a pool on the roof of a building. so what, it is cool. a building in the outfield. so what, it is cool. all it will do it give props to sd for the idea, and Az for the pool idea. i think this design looks very nice. i hope oak gets as they deserve a better venue.


----------



## rantanamo

It could be a condo building or hotel. The stadium is part of larger development.


----------



## Mekky II

asohn said:


> And for our European friends, it seems as if the roof covers mostly all of the seats..


Half of seats... if you watch well, roof is not really large


----------



## TexasBoi

wait a minute. Didn't they just renovate the coliseum(sp). Did that not work out or is there lease coming to an end?


----------



## el pato

I usually just read and look at pictures on this site. When I saw these pics I had to comment.

This could be the neatest design I've ever seen. When people complain it is a rip-off of another park that's just makes me mad. I think it's neccesary to take little things that worked well in one place and improve on them. Look at the size of that pool. The one in AZ is more like a hot tub. Plus the view from the the A's pool will be pretty amazing. 

Yes I'd agree that there have been to many retro style ballparks built in the past decade and I'd love to see more modern ones, but I can't complain about this park. This is how a park should be built. If this is built, I have to make the drive down I-5 to go see it. They'll deffinantly attract more fans in the bay area and the way the A's are playing mabey steal some Giants fans too.


----------



## rantanamo

The renovation was to make a better stand for the other side in the football layout. Before there was just a large temporary stand. Now there is a large, modern, permanent stand that retracts during baseball games. Other renovations took place before this.

I also read on the site that the A's have a series of 1 year leases as do the Marlins, so really there is a constant threat of relocation. San Jose has been quite smug about being able to build something nicer and luring the A's across the bay. The A's however, really wants the new stadium in Oakland.


----------



## Mr. T

I like the design a lot. Looks really nice.

As for the capacity of 35k which some may consider to be small you have to realize that the A's arent going to get 45 thousand people to go to the games. They are a really good team right now and they still pretty much play in an empty stadium when at home. I sont see why they would need a 45k stadium. 35k is good for Oakland.


----------



## Burton

*New Kansas City Arena (Sprint Center)*

Today the final designs were released for the Sprint Center, in downtown Kansas City, which is scheduled to open in late 2007. Capacity is 18,500.

















































































The arena will be connected to a large downtown entertainment/shopping district which is also now under construction. The medium-sized oval shaped transparent glass building in the upper middle of this picture will be the new headquarters for H&R block.
Broad view of Arena and KC Power & Light Entertainment-Shopping District








_All pictures from http://kc-photos.com_


----------



## th0m

Pardon my ignorance, but what teams will be using this new facility? I see a hockey and a bball setup. The center looks really nice, reminds me a bit of MSG, but a whole lot more modern at the same time  I like the cladding, just too bad about the huge Sprint sign on the roof. I also wonder how transparant the building will be in reality.


----------



## GNU

that is one sleek looking arena!!Like it very much.
but they should change the colors of the seats.


----------



## Burton

There are no permanent teams yet to play in the arena, the reason it's being built is to attract an NBA or NHL Franchise back to Kansas City. The Big 12 Basketball tournament (college) will likely be held here every year, or rotated with the new arenas in Dallas and Oklahoma City every few years.


----------



## flagship

My favorite baseball park is Kaufmann stadium in Kansas City.

In a world where most teams are building "retro" like parks in the cities downtowns, Kansas City's spacious suburban like setting is both unique and beautiful.


----------



## flagship

Petco Park does look really nice.

But looming at that overhead shot,it seems to me that they should of angled the stadium towards the water. There could of potentially been a really nice view there.

They got it going in the exaxt opposite direction.


----------



## flagship

I liked the picture of the Japanese ballparks.

Tropicana Field in Tampa Bay looks like it would fit right in with that group of stadiums.


----------



## Liam-Manchester

Wrigley Field for me- great atmosphere


----------



## M16A2

miller park!!


----------



## SDK4

flagship said:


> I liked the picture of the Japanese ballparks.
> 
> Tropicana Field in Tampa Bay looks like it would fit right in with that group of stadiums.


I know I might get laughed at for this, but during the summer even the crappy Tropicana Field is Perfect! 70 degrees, no bright sun or rain. Couldn't get any better. It's definitely one of the worst stadiums in the league, but sometimes a dome works out just right.


----------



## rantanamo

those beach communities are above sea level. NO is below sea level. And they will likely not get a new stadium as the Saints will probably move. It was already a dicey situation to keep them in NO without Superdome renovations or a new stadium. Now it would be years to get a new stadium, plus the uncertainty of whether NO can host an NFL team in the coming years.


----------



## BobDaBuilder

If I was the Saints, I'd relocate to New York City.

They have 2 teams there who have waiting lists for season tickets. So I'd bung in the Saints into the Bronx or Brooklyn, maybe even Manhatten.

Can the Jets and Giants do much to stop them moving to the Big Apple?


----------



## Zaqattaq

BobDaBuilder said:


> If I was the Saints, I'd relocate to New York City.
> 
> They have 2 teams there who have waiting lists for season tickets. So I'd bung in the Saints into the Bronx or Brooklyn, maybe even Manhatten.
> 
> Can the Jets and Giants do much to stop them moving to the Big Apple?


The Jets have been trying to move into Manhatten for years, it won't happen


----------



## BobDaBuilder

Greater New York has something like 15 odd million people(probably more). They have plenty of room for another club in the area. The region is screaming for another football club.

With potential waiting lists for season tickets, as a pure business proposal I'd be looking to move the side up there and put a team on the eastern side of the city as the Jets and Giants are to the west in Jersey.


----------



## vertigosufferer

It was a place of sanctuary that turned into a place of death, fear, anxiety and despair. How could they ever play another game of competative sport in such an arena ever again?


----------



## great prairie

vertigosufferer said:


> It was a place of sanctuary that turned into a place of death, fear, anxiety and despair. How could they ever play another game of competative sport in such an arena ever again?


O THE HORROR!!!!


----------



## tootshibbard

heavyzakura334 said:


> hahaha.... no, don't worry, I am not trying to start a US vs. the world thing going on. but sure, why not, let's bring back FIFA. that is a good idea, the US needs it.
> 
> I just mean to emphasize that many Americans do not appreciate many sports. Any sport is worthwhile, I am just saying that you have a very narrow view about what sport really is.




Huh? Why does the U.S. "need FIFA"? That is so patronizing. Are football/soccer fans so insecure about their game they need to try to push it down Americans throats? Americans are exposed to football!!!!! They vote with their feet. We are much more exposed to football here then Europeans are to hockey, basketball, la crosse, or baseball.

If Americans want to make soccer its number one sport then great. If not then its OKKKKKK. Europeans (and espeically Britts) don't have to be so insecure about Yanks not "getting it".

The U.S. is more well rounded then any European country in relation to its sports. Tell me another country where four differant sports leagues regularly draw 20,000-70,000 for its games and has up to 120 teams whos value is worth over 100 million dollars.

In Europe there is ONE major sport and every other sport is a good distance behind at best. And the U.S. has a very narrow idea of "what sports is about". What a load.

I think its Europeans (and the Britts specifically) who need to be exposed to more games from the outside world.


----------



## tootshibbard

asohn said:


> And for our European friends, it seems as if the roof covers mostly all of the seats..




LMAO...So true.


This stadium does look incrediable. Hopefully no matter where the A's end up putting this stadium (in Oakland or another city) they keep the design. It looks awesome.


----------



## brummad

at least we play sports that have a global following and we can have proper internationals...not like the world series of US baseball teams lol


----------



## brummad

oh and we are all very much exposed to hockey....we play it at school on fields


----------



## FM 2258

PHXbevo said:


> Good Choice NYC!
> 
> I bet millions of New Yorkers are overwhelmingly sighing releif at the ridiculous notion of an olympics in the City. WTF does New York have to prove to the world, which is the top, or one of the top 2 or 3 world class cities on the planet. London and Paris should follow suit. The olympics are dead as dead and a monumental waste of money. Let Mozambique host it for the next century, who fucking cares?
> 
> Only thing that sucks is that the New York Jets wont get their new stadium on the West Side.


I don't see the point of developed countries hosting the olympics anymore. Let the poor countries rush to build their infrastructure in order to showcase the olympics and their country. I honestly don't care about the olympics anymore either. The last one I cared about was the 1996 olympics in Atlanta. Also remember the 1992 ones for some reason.


----------



## TalB

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/sports/othersports/08olympics.html
*New York Mum as Los Angeles Says It Will Bid on 2016 Games*

By LYNN ZINSER
Published: September 8, 2005
A Los Angeles group declared its intention yesterday to bid for the 2016 Olympics, but the future of a potential New York bid remained far from clear two months after the city's failed attempt to land the 2012 Games.

The United States Olympic Committee has not announced its timetable for selecting an American bid city for 2016, but a committee led by Barry Sanders, a lawyer, and backed by Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa of Los Angeles unofficially kicked off the bidding season with its announcement.

"This is a city with so many obvious attributes, because of what kind of city it is, the climate, the spirit of the city," Sanders said in a telephone interview. "We think Los Angeles was made for the Olympic Games."

Since New York lost a five-city race for the 2012 Games in July, when London won the vote by members of the International Olympic Committee, city officials have not rushed to embrace another run for 2016. Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg has put off any serious consideration of another bid until after the November election. He emphasized during the 2012 process that New York could not guarantee it would return for another bid.

When Bloomberg has addressed the topic recently, he has said that the city would probably need to find another bid leader willing to spend the time and raise the money necessary because he doubted that Deputy Mayor Daniel L. Doctoroff, the 2012 bid leader, would continue in the role.

Doctoroff, who said yesterday that he did not want to comment on his future role, spent 11 years and said he raised about $35 million in private donations for the 2012 bid.

That does not mean other officials from the 2012 group could not revive the bid, which has been discussed among some of the board members.

The U.S.O.C. will give them plenty of time to consider the options. At a meeting Saturday in Denver, the committee will discuss how to choose the next American bid city. It is a process that officials have promised will be different from the one that gave New York the nod over San Francisco in 2002, because the U.S.O.C. has reorganized. In 2002, the committee's 123-member board voted on a winner. Now, the committee's board has been reduced to 11 members.

Some of the changes will also be a response to problems in the 2012 process. There was friction between the U.S.O.C. and NYC2012 over the bid's reliance on the West Side Stadium plan, which was rejected by New York State officials only a month before the I.O.C. vote, becoming a major factor in the bid's defeat.

The U.S.O.C. has vowed to institute a rigorous set of selection criteria to choose the next city, including an emphasis on having facilities approved long before the I.O.C. selection.

But those criteria are not likely to be determined until this fall, when cities will be offered the chance to apply. A winner is likely to be chosen by 2007 for the I.O.C. selection process, which will end in 2009.

The Los Angeles group's eagerness to bid comes as no surprise. The city failed to make the list of finalists the U.S.O.C. considered in 2002, but it has long sent signals that it would return for the 2016 race.

Sanders has a long history of involvement with Olympic sports, including serving as general counsel to the organizing committee of the 1984 Los Angeles Games, which was led by the U.S.O.C.'s current chairman, Peter Ueberroth.

Ueberroth, though, has no role with Sanders's group, a U.S.O.C. spokesman, Darryl Seibel, said. And Sanders said he was not relying on his long association with Ueberroth.

"He would not let us compromise his integrity, and we would not attempt to," Sanders said. "We not are advised at all by Peter Ueberroth."

Sanders emphasized that Los Angeles offered an extensive array of existing facilities, including the same Coliseum that was used in the 1932 and 1984 Games for the opening and closing ceremonies and for track and field. 

It remains to be seen whether Los Angeles's experience as an Olympic host will be a positive or a negative to the I.O.C. Sanders says that the selection of London as the site of an Olympics for a third time signals that the I.O.C. is not reluctant to tread on old ground.

Los Angeles is the only American city to play host for a Summer Olympics more than once. Part of New York's unsuccessful pitch for 2012 was that it had never been the host for the Olympics and would help break new ground for the Games.


----------



## tootshibbard

brummad said:


> oh and we are all very much exposed to hockey....we play it at school on fields




In the U.S. women play "field hockey". To each is own though.


----------



## tootshibbard

brummad said:


> at least we play sports that have a global following and we can have proper internationals...not like the world series of US baseball teams lol




I can see you are big into the sheep factor. Like people should care that India came to like a game because you colonized it for over 200 years!!!!

And baseball doesn't have a "global following"? Check yourself my friend. Baseball is the first sport in Japan, U.S., Taiwan, Korea, Cuba, Dominican Republic, and a 1A or #2 sport in a host of others. 

How many teams differant sports does the UK average 20-70k in attendance every year? In hockey and basketball in the U.S. attendance often is 15-20,000. And baseball (which is 162 games a year) often is 35,000 a year and football averages around 70,000 a year. Plus we have professional la crosse and "soccer" leagues as well that do pretty well.

So spare me that Britts are more "diversified" and appreciate sports better nonsense.


----------



## dANIEL2004

I dont see the reason for olympics 2016 in USA.They hosted the games a lot of times but tha 1996 was a catastrophe..


----------



## dANIEL2004

I dont see the reason for olympics 2016 in USA.They hosted the games a lot of times but tha 1996 was a disaster..


----------



## Zorba

@Tootshibbard: Europeans are more well rounded with sports than Americans. This is coming from me a person who has lived in both Europe and the U.S.

Many sports including basketball, F-1 Racing, football(soccer), water polo, athletics, Ice Hockey, Rugby, and Field Hockey are very popular throughout Europe. The reason why there arent 70,000 seat stadiums everywhere are because no country in Europe has even close to the population of the US and it wouldnt make sense to have huge stadiums that would never get filled.

European sports and sport competitions such as the Champions League football(soccer tournament) along with the European football(soccer) Championships are very popular throughout the world. Not to mention European soccer fans are far and away the best fans of any sport in the world.

I love many US sports. I am an avid Washington Redskins, Washington Wizards, Washington Capitals, and Washington Nationals fan but overall I accept that most sports in the US such as NFL Football, NASCAR, Baseball arent extremly popular outside of it. 

The only sport which is popular in both the US and the world is the NBA which is watched all around the world. I remember going to my uncle's house in Athens, Greece a few years ago and he had a big gathering to watch the first game of the NBA Finals between the Lakers and Nets. Keep in mind my uncle and most of the people in that room had never even been to the US but still loved the NBA since it is popular in Europe.


----------



## mrtocsin

tootshibbard said:


> In Europe there is ONE major sport and every other sport is a good distance behind at best. And the U.S. has a very narrow idea of "what sports is about". What a load.
> 
> I think its Europeans (and the Britts specifically) who need to be exposed to more games from the outside world.


You have obviosuly not heard of Rugby League, Rugby Union (six nations etc), Cricket (the Ashes series that is taking place at this very moment is off the chart fan wise in the UK at the moment). 

I am pretty sure that basketball is very popular in Italy and the Baltic states and Ice Hockey extremely popular in many Northern European countries.


----------



## soup or man

There was a tiny rumor that the Saints would play at the LA Coliseum. But I think that now they will play at the Medowlands.


----------



## tootshibbard

_


Zorba said:



@Tootshibbard: Europeans are more well rounded with sports than Americans. This is coming from me a person who has lived in both Europe and the U.S.

Click to expand...

_


Zorba said:


> Sorry, this proves nothing.
> 
> 
> _Many sports including basketball, F-1 Racing, football(soccer), water polo, athletics, Ice Hockey, Rugby, and Field Hockey are very popular throughout Europe. _
> 
> Tell me any other place in Europe where different countries and cities draw as many spectators to as many different sports as the U.S. does. You can't. Rugby if very popular (and that is a relative term) in the countries by my count. Field Hockey? Are you serious? Can field hockey get anywhere near 10,000 a game on a regular basis? Same with water polo. Now hockey is played with regularity in the Nordic and some eastern European countries but it is still a pretty minor sports in any of the western European countries outside the Nordic countries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The reason why there aren't 70,000 seat stadiums everywhere are because no country in Europe has even close to the population of the US and it wouldn't make sense to have huge stadiums that would never get filled._
> 
> If rugby was so popular in Europe as you claim why can't they find enough places to draw 30 or 40 k on a regular basis there?
> 
> 
> _European sports and sport competitions such as the Champions League football (soccer tournament) along with the European football(soccer) Championships are very popular throughout the world. Not to mention European soccer fans are far and away the best fans of any sport in the world._
> 
> 
> Of course they are popular around the world. Soccer is the widely played and watched sport in the world. How does this at all prove anything about sports diversity?
> And the "European soccer fans are the best fans of any sports" smacks of such provinciality and homerism that it does not even deserve a reply. Never mind how that is PROVABLE in any objective way. I KNOW we could go back and forth about the dumbness/merritts of that comment but the bottom line it is very provincial an ignorant stream of thought best to come out of a 12 years mouth then a grown adult who is "so well traveled".
> 
> 
> 
> I love many US sports. I am an avid Washington Redskins, Washington Wizards, Washington Capitals, and Washington Nationals fan but overall I accept that most sports in the US such as NFL Football, NASCAR, Baseball arent extremly popular outside of it.
> 
> 
> The insecurity of some Europeans (especially some Britts) is beyond the pale. The fact that Amerians aren't sheep and follow Britt sports seems to bring out the most insecure in them. You are wrong about baseball. It is the FIRST sport of over 500 million people!!!!!! Far many more people play baseball then "rugby". And the reason why crickets numbers are so inflated is because you include over one billion people on the India. The widespead "popularity" of a sport is no way indicittive to me of how great a sport it is. By many measures then figure skaing would be consdiered a very popular sport but give me La Cross any day of the week.


----------



## Nic

LOL @ Great Prairie!


----------



## dande

*Tickets?*

Are the tickets for NCAA as expensive as for the pro leagues?


----------



## 40Acres

i think ticket face value of this Texas vs. Ohio State game shown here were $65 each, but a pair of tix together were going for up to $2500 from the scalpers.


----------



## bubomb

rantanamo said:


> Its benches as are most college football stadiums. Still an absolutely huge stadium, and like all US stadiums, has a minimum width for each "seat" according to firecode.



Imagine the width for the minimum, as our American chums do like their burgers!!! In Europe that stadium could probably hold 350000.


----------



## hngcm

Nameless said:


> This is why College football>NFL.


Why?


----------



## [email protected]

HUGE !!!!!!


----------



## 40Acres

bubomb said:


> Imagine the width for the minimum, as our American chums do like their burgers!!! In Europe that stadium could probably hold 350000.


sounds unsanitary, as we know our european buddies dont like to shower


----------



## Nameless

bubomb said:


> Imagine the width for the minimum, as our American chums do like their burgers!!! In Europe that stadium could probably hold 350000.




You guys are on your way to fattieville as well so you shouldn't talk.


----------



## Nameless

hngcm said:


> Why?



You will find very few if any NFL games that even come close to the atmosphere of a college game.


----------



## Perth4life3

Sarajka said:


> ^ I think they should move the whole city.
> 
> We're at the beginning of a 30-40 year hurricane cycle, global warming is causing sea levels to rise...
> 
> There's just no way the city is going to last. New Orleans will have to be moved, probably in our lifetimes.



actually global warming doesnt cause sea levels to rise, it stays the same, fill a glass of water to almost the very top, now put in ice and wait for it to melt, the glass wont overflow it will just go back to the level it was before the ice was there, so if anything the polar caps melting is lowering the sea level!!!!


----------



## KMFDM

Sarajka said:


> ^ I think they should move the whole city.
> 
> We're at the beginning of a 30-40 year hurricane cycle, global warming is causing sea levels to rise...
> 
> There's just no way the city is going to last. New Orleans will have to be moved, probably in our lifetimes.


New Orleans is the birth place of Jazz and a cultural icon. It is just too important to give up on. You don't just "demolish" a historical place. They should build a 30-foot high levee wall around it if necessary, America has the means to do it.


----------



## BaylorGuy314

Rosenblatt Stadium in Omaha, NE. Home of the College World Series.



















Very old and different, but that's what I like about it. Plus, I love NCAA baseball.


----------



## Zaqattaq

Yea but if you love watching the game played at it's best sit back and watch the NFL in awe

I don't believe either is better
High School football might be the best


----------



## weill

nice


----------



## rantanamo




----------



## great prairie

Nameless said:


> You will find very few if any NFL games that even come close to the atmosphere of a college game.


It really depends on the college game, only rivalries and big games like UT/OSU have better atmosphere.


----------



## rantanamo

I think the NFL gets sold short on the atmosphere. 

Stadiums:
College stadiums are bigger for the big schools. NFL stadiums are nicer. College stadiums are older and have a larger variety in design due to their "tinker toy" nature

Pageantry:
Colleges have large bands, Big flags, bold long standing logos, more outrageous and/or regional mascots, traditional cheerleaders, stadium traditions and cheers and you are more apt to find a stadium bathed in a team color. NFL does have music from the stadium(Redskins have a band though), big flags, newer more up to date logos, alternate unis, sexy dance squads(called cheerleaders) a few cheers and usually lack stadium traditions because most teams have gone through two or three stadiums in the last 50-60 years. Both are colorful, but the college pageantry is memorable, steady and very specific to each school. It is most importantly familiar. If you go back to see your college team 30 years from now it will continue to be familiar. The uniforms will likely be very very similar. The cheers will be the same. Traditions will be the same.

Fans:
College fans are very loyal. Even when a team stinks for 10 years, huge stadiums are still very full, almost to capacity. Fans will watch their team no matter what. They will listen to what the head coach says and do it. They'll come out in the same color shirt, they'll stand until their team scores. They'll generally know all the cheers and traditions. They are also cheering for the jersey and school name moreso than players. NFL fans are generally not as loyal, and can be transient as to which team they root for. There is still passion there, just not the sheep passion that many college fans have.

Atmosphere. In general, I'd say college has better atmosphere. The NFL playoffs though are big time, as are rivalries like Cowboys-Eagles. The NFL games are a bit more relaxed. Likely because the defensive skill and athletes are so incredible in the NFL. They tend to deflate scoring much of the time, and if the home team is the defensive greatness team, then it can really get loud. There are few cheers per team, so you might get a de-fense or the rare J-E-T-S, Jets Jets Jets. You also have rare traditions like the Lambeau leap. In college, you have lots of cheers. I can think of several off hand for UT. We sing them in unison throughout the game. When your college team is on defense, you generally make lots of noise. Some places wave towels or whatever. Then you have the bands. It creates a great atmosphere. But these are mostly the biggest 30-40 schools. 

On the field: I've explained before. The NFL is more refined and specialized. If a guy is open, the quarterback generally hits him or puts the ball where it can be caught. Missed reads are rare by any player and usually result in first downs because the speed and strength is so equal. So the games come down to a few plays. Those plays can be very spectacular though with the calibre of athlete in the NFL. College is exciting for its own reasons, which is why many like it so much. There are more assignment mistakes since the players are younger and less experienced. Mistakes in college more often lead to long gains or touchdowns. You also have more experimentation at positions. In the NFL there's pretty much a prototype size, speed and mental make-up for each position. In college you might find a smaller, but faster running back, or a quarterback who only throws marginally well, but runs like a gazelle. The schemes are also more varied to take advantage of the more often made mistakes. It makes match-ups much more interesting. For example, Michigan's basic pro-style offense against Texas' spread option offense. Put all of that variety, with athlete's who are maturing into NFL calibre athlete's (almost there really) and you get a very exciting brand of football.


----------



## SDK4

I would put Rosenblatt at the top of a medium sized stadium category, not better than most major league stadiums.


----------



## The Mad Hatter!!

well this could just be the owner trying to get a new stadium built or just trying to find a reason to relocate

old story----
*Saints Stadium
After playing at the Superdome for more than two decades, the New Orleans Saints are one of several teams in the NFL who want a new stadium built. In the summer of 2001, owner of the Saints, Tom Benson requested that a new retractable roof stadium be built for the team by the 2006 season. Several sites have been discussed on where the stadium should be built including one 10 blocks from the Superdome. However, since 2001, little progress has been made on a new facility for the Saints. Originally the projected cost was roughly $450 million. Under the original plans, if a new stadium was built, it would be in an oval shape with 60-70,000 seats and a retractable roof to protect fans from bad weather. The stadium would also include a state of the art entertainment system, and fans would also be allowed to tailgate around the stadium. Throughout 2004 and 2005 there have been discussions of the Saints possibly relocating to Los Angeles or possibly San Antonio. There has been discussions of renovating the Superdome at a cost of around $174 million, but in April 2005, the Saints dropped the negotiations. The team does have a clause that allows them to leave the Superdome at New Orleans after the 2005 season.
old design for new stadium


----------



## Zorba

I really like that stadium.


----------



## 2005

JimB said:


> Oh, for God's sake, shut up about Tottenham just for once, can't you? It's very tedious. And if you had been to a big American football match, then you would know that the fans are very passionate indeed. Just as passionate as they are in English football. They may not sing spontaneous songs as "soccer" fans in Europe and South America. But that's just a matter of tradition. The fans at American football still make a hell of a noise, though.
> 
> So please - just for once - stop trying to turn every thread into a competition or a discussion about Tottenham.


Sorry just can't but piss everyone off well funny.


----------



## ttownfeen

2005 said:


> American "football" :| rivalrys are very big in size but that is it the passion isn't there simple as you want passion and singing and an amzing atmosphere go to FOOTBALL match like Tottenham vs Arsenal at whl or Everton vs Liverpool now that is a real sporting rivalry.
> 
> Sorry to be a git but it is true.



Hey, well this may not be all that spontaneous as the other team just got whupped, but dare to see this and deny American football fans lack passion (even if there is a smidgeon of unsportsmanship in this).

http://www.jandedesigns.com/RJYH Florida.wmv

(I hope its okay for me to post outside links. i get confused with all these different forums)


----------



## 2005

ttownfeen said:


> Hey, well this may not be all that spontaneous as the other team just got whupped, but dare to see this and deny American football fans lack passion (even if there is a smidgeon of unsportsmanship in this).
> 
> http://www.jandedesigns.com/RJYH Florida.wmv
> 
> (I hope its okay for me to post outside links. i get confused with all these different forums)


True but I bet they were singing because they were winning I've been to Nottingham Forest away games and they've been loosing and I joined in singing my lungs out and I've done the same just the once at a Tottenham game. I admit that tho that I would not take away the brilliance of that atmosphere. 

Only fair that I give a link hay.
http://www.tottenham-fans.com/aday_ina_life.htm


----------



## great prairie

ttownfeen said:


> Hey, well this may not be all that spontaneous as the other team just got whupped, but dare to see this and deny American football fans lack passion (even if there is a smidgeon of unsportsmanship in this).
> 
> http://www.jandedesigns.com/RJYH Florida.wmv
> 
> (I hope its okay for me to post outside links. i get confused with all these different forums)


have you ever been to a Texas/Oklahoma game?


----------



## ttownfeen

great prairie said:


> have you ever been to a Texas/Oklahoma?


Nope. I imagine its get loud there too. However, I hear they're leaving the Cotton Bowl after next year to go a home-and-home series.


----------



## great prairie

It's 2007

oh the question was meant to be asked to people who claim the Red river rivalry lacked passion? 

I quoted the wrong person


----------



## Jaybird

*Rate the Arena: Mellon Arena, Pittsburgh, PA*

RATE THE ARENA: Mellon Arena, Pittsburgh, PA.

Home of the Pittsburgh Penguins of the NHL, it was built in 1961 and located in downtown Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and is the oldest arena in the NHL, formerly known as the IGLOO. It has a capacity of over 17,000. The Penguins won the 1990-91 and 1991-92 Stanley Cup Championships when playing in this building.


----------



## DrJoe

It is awesome from the outside but the interior is old and outdated, the Penguins are heavily pursuing a new arena or else they will leave Pittsburgh. The roof originally retracted when built but it cannot anymore.

7/10 for being pretty cool.


----------



## Jaybird

I totally agree with your comments, DrJoe, I'll be off to Pittsburgh next year in March to see a Penguins/Leafs game! Looking forward to that! 

I give it a 7.5/10


----------



## nomarandlee

I think it looks pretty cool at least from tv and photos. It has some charecther at least from many of the new areans built in North American which if you look at photos of the inside are generally very hard to distinguish from one another.

The roof really used to retract? I think that is a fabulous idea. I wish my Blackhawks had done something like that. Imagine how cool it would be to watch hocky on not TOO COLD of nights during winter out in the elemants under the stars!!!!! That would rock.

Hopefully the last few organizations that will build a new arena in the future will take it into strong consideration.


----------



## waccamatt

Wow, I love the outside! Why don't they just renovate the interior into a modern arena. I would hate to see that treasure lost to the wrecking ball.


----------



## Boomer_Sooner

As a Univeristy of Oklahoma student, nothing compares to the Red River Rivalry. OU and UT are two schools that are undeniably in the top 5 in terms of tradition and history in college football. I read that some of you say it probably "lacks passion." How can you say that when you've never been? Classes are even canceled the day before at OU! The night before, OU and Texas fans go to the West End and trash talk and it gets pretty tense. Extra police force is required to make sure nothing gets out of hand. 

Great Prarie, great job in capturing the atmosphere! It truly is one of the greatest rivalries in college football. By the way.... Texas still sucks! 

Here are some of my favorite pictures from OU-Texas. 

This is permanently painted in the South Oval at OU:









Texas my have the scoreboard on us this year but they don't have this!
OU/Texas 2000 score:








OU/Texas 2003 score: 









































Pregame show - Pride of Oklahoma marching band - OU!


----------



## ArchMadness

Well they just started the demolition of the old Busch. The new one is really coming along now. 

July 05









August 05









September 05









October 05


----------



## Scba

Lame-ass if those green seats turn out to be that same Camden green, which I wouldn't doubt.


----------



## reluminate

Scba said:


> Lame-ass if those green seats turn out to be that same Camden green, which I wouldn't doubt.


The seats are red


----------



## petey

I'm gonna miss the old Busch.


----------



## samsonyuen

Neat project, so I guess there'll be one road extension, and one dead end since the stadium's location will have moved. I've always like Busch Stadium though, how round it is. The new one looks nice too though.


----------



## CharlieP

Just a quick question - does the term "cookie cutter stadium" come from the fact that they look like cookie cutters (which Busch does in a way), or from the fact that they look so similar to each other, like cookies made with the same cookie cutter?


----------



## reluminate

CharlieP said:


> Just a quick question - does the term "cookie cutter stadium" come from the fact that they look like cookie cutters (which Busch does in a way), or from the fact that they look so similar to each other, like cookies made with the same cookie cutter?


A little bit of both


----------



## CrazyCanuck

When is demolition of the old Busch?


----------



## Kuvvaci

*Best Soccer Stadium of America*

wich one is the best soccer stadium of America (both the south andthe north)?


----------



## Scba

From the north, it'd probably be the Home Depot Center in CA, for now.

There's probably a dozen or two better stadiums than that in the south, so I've got no idea there.


----------



## dave8721

I doubt KC would get a super bowl. Keep in mind the #1 thing league owners look at is where do they think their enterages and "hangers on" would like to spend a week in January. The NFL elite jet-setters weren't too pleased with Jacksonville, mostly complaining that it was too cold.


----------



## cmc

The Best of America.....

El Estadio Azteca (Azteca Stadium in Mexico City).


----------



## AcesHigh

cmc said:


> The Best of America.....
> 
> El Estadio Azteca (Azteca Stadium in Mexico City).


not sure if its the best, but its certainly one of the best in América. 

Brasil has some great stadiums, but most of them are kinda old and decript. I hope we win the bid for the 2014 Cup. We will have an excuse to build new GOOD and HUGE stadiums, whch may become the best in América.


----------



## Martuh

Macaraña or Azteca.


----------



## Kuvvaci

we must see the all stadiums to make a judgment...But yes, Asteca is one of the bests. It is the stadium of romantic times... But we need more pictures of this wonderful stadium..


----------



## Loranga

Is the capacity going to be expanded if awarded the Super Bowl?


----------



## cmc

From my point of view here are some of America's best soccer stadiums by country......

Mexico:
Azteca Stadium









Estadio Jalisco









Estadio La Corregidora









Estadio Chivas (2006)









Brazil:
Maracana









Estadio Mangueirao









Arena Multiuso (2006)









Estadio Joao Havelange (2005)









Argentina:
El Monumental









Ecuador:
El Monumental de Guayaquil









Estadio La Casa Blanca









Columbia:
Estadio Metropolitano









Estadio Azul (2007)









Estadio Deportivo Cali









Venezuela:
Estadio Metropolitano de Merida (200?)


----------



## bubomb

Here is a big one in Peru. 80093 is the capacity.


----------



## LEAFS FANATIC

*Rogers Centre in Toronto (formerly known as SkyDome):

Capacity of about 50,000 for football.*


*Porto match, Friday July 30, 2004. Porto 1 - Liverpool 0. Skydome, Toronto:*











*AS Roma - Glasgow Celtic. Skydome, Toronto:*











A new FIFA approved 20,000 + seater is being designed and built in Toronto. It will be a football-only stadium. I will post designs when I find some.


----------



## cmc

I didn't know the Skydome was used for soccer ...... :eek2: 

but one thing is for sure, it looks cool with soccer...


----------



## cmc

Reliant Stadium in Houston is home to the Texans, for American Football, but when it has soccer games, it sure looks nice......, trust me I've been to plenty of games.


----------



## LEAFS FANATIC

cmc said:


> Reliant Stadium in Houston is home to the Texans, for American Football, but when it has soccer games, it sure looks nice......, trust me I've been to plenty of games.



Great post cmc! I have been to Reliant Stadium for NFL action. The stadium is incredible! You are right on top of the action!

The skydome in Toronto was actually pretty good for soccer. I went to see the Roma match you see in the pic I attached....

:cheers:


----------



## eddyk

cmc said:


> I didn't know the Skydome was used for soccer ...... :eek2:
> 
> but one thing is for sure, it looks cool with soccer...




It is for hosting matches of clubs on tour....but there isn;t a team that plays there regularly (I dont think)...Thus I don't think it should count.



Of all stadums the Reliant is my fave in the Americas....if there is a club soccer team that play there regularly ina league....I'll choose that.


----------



## vivayo

Azteca is even better for me, its seats are relatively close to the pitch considering the size (110,000), not one single seat with obstructed view, plus the inclination is very, very, I have been there at a sold out game and it was insane, high above any other stadium experience,
and that counting all my visits, to Qualcomm stadium (during world series) , Petco Park, Fenway, Skydome or Rogers, LA. Coliseum( capacity crowd) Rose Bowl (during world cup), Anaheim Stadium, Montreal olimpic, and many others in Mexico

the feeling of entering this monster that has stands 45 meters above picht, and with the roof, the sound of people is soo high that I have trouble listening to my dad, that was in the next seat, we had to scream to hear each other

plus many amenities U/C


----------



## Menandro

For me, Azteca in Mexico !!! :cheers:


----------



## BobDaBuilder

^^^^^

Canada reminds me what it was like 20 years ago in Australia. We used to get excited about 2 big name clubs out here during their off seasons.

Then we realised we could do it just and good they them and decided to get our own teams acts together.

10 years ago I can recall the Canadian NT really pushing Oz in a WCQ. It took a penalty shoot out to resolve the matter.

Canada should join CONMEBOL number 1, then build herself a strong national league. CONCACAF is holding you guys back.


----------



## bubomb

Skydome looks far better than I thought it would (when football is played)

I think it was designed for American football as well as other sports. So as American football fields are very similar to football fields, then I think the Skydome should count.

Reliant and Azteca are better though. If they gave the Azteca a refurbishment (just seats, facade etc, nothing major), then it would easily be the best stadium in the world.

C'mon Mexicans - sell some tequila and some donkeys, and get that stadium looking nice and shiny.


----------



## hngcm

Azteca.


----------



## Бане

The one in Houston looks the best.

Azteca is nice too.. but very old now.


----------



## matherto

apart from that Baixada Arena (?) in Paranaense (?)
and possibly the Jalisco, the South American stadiums are crap. The seats are either faded or just not seats (terrace) they are really not very well maintained, look on fussballtempel at the pics of El Monumental. None of the stadiums are at World Cup standard in reality.

I know this could be down to financial positions for the clubs, but they really should upgrade the stadiums regardless of whether they get a World Cup.

North American stadiums are completely the opposite, really modern and nicely designed. My favourite would have to be Reliant Stadium.


----------



## Fangorn Fog

i think a law needs to be made to stop owners from naming stidaums after themseleves.....Buffaols Pilot Field went to North Americare Park then of all things..Dunn Tire Park. Rogers Stadium? Are we freaking kidding? That name will never hold a candle to Skydome.


----------



## Morten M

It must be Reliant Stadium in Houston (allready mentioned in this thread) or Qwest Field i Seatle.

*Qwest Field*










More photos in this thread about Qwest Field: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=199561

Lincoln Financial Field in Philadelphia is also a good one.



















But this is only judged on photos and TV coverage, because I have never been to a stadium in either North or South America.


----------



## hngcm

None can beat the atmosphere of Azteca.


----------



## spyguy

Those aren't dedicated soccer stadiums though, are they?


----------



## bubomb

As far as football (soccer) is concerned, this stadium is perfect. Absolutely perfect.


----------



## dewback

Probably Azteca, it has hosted two World Cup finals, but it seriously needs refurbishment and restoration.


----------



## Martuh

cmc said:


> Reliant Stadium in Houston is home to the Texans, for American Football, but when it has soccer games, it sure looks nice......, trust me I've been to plenty of games.


 :runaway: 

_O_


----------



## invincible

The thing that bugs me about Reliant is the huge amount of advertising around the scoreboard.

I like the crazy amount of tiers in the Peruvian stadium - and the coloured seats seem to give the impression that there's always a crowd, but they are getting a bit faded.


----------



## tomm

*Stadiums in Bs As (some)*

Estadio Unico








Racing Club








Boca jrs


----------



## rantanamo

invincible said:


> The thing that bugs me about Reliant is the huge amount of advertising around the scoreboard.
> 
> I like the crazy amount of tiers in the Peruvian stadium - and the coloured seats seem to give the impression that there's always a crowd, but they are getting a bit faded.


In American sports, its pretty much taboo to have ads on uniforms or around or near the playing surface, so you see them near and around the scoreboards. US stadiums also have much larger and more elaborate video systems that sub for a lot of the direct to player and field advertising.


----------



## reluminate

Fangorn Fog said:


> i think a law needs to be made to stop owners from naming stidaums *after themseleves*.....Buffaols Pilot Field went to North Americare Park then of all things..Dunn Tire Park. Rogers Stadium? Are we freaking kidding? That name will never hold a candle to Skydome.


Themselves? Stadium naming rights are sold for millions of dollars to these companies.


----------



## spyguy

Soldier Field (eventually the Chicago Fire will move to their new stadium)

Click for full size:


----------



## ASupertall4SD

i does look nice though. although it looks a bit like a huge tent was placed over the current stadium. how bout a little better integration with the current design


----------



## TexasBoi

dave8721 said:


> I doubt KC would get a super bowl. Keep in mind the #1 thing league owners look at is where do they think their enterages and "hangers on" would like to spend a week in January. The NFL elite jet-setters weren't too pleased with Jacksonville, mostly complaining that it was too cold.


Is that why they are not rushing to Atlanta?


----------



## rantanamo

yes, and probably why DFW will only get one.


----------



## XCRunner

Scba said:


> From the north, it'd probably be the Home Depot Center in CA, for now.
> 
> There's probably a dozen or two better stadiums than that in the south, so I've got no idea there.


Do you not know anything about anything outside of the U.S.? Or were you just trying to be funny? Or were you born yesterday? Alright, maybe I'm being a little harsh here, but seriously, to consider the Home Depot Center the best in North America? If there were some way to quantify what makes a stadium great, The Azteca would beat it by about 10 million points. Then about 10 other Mexican stadiums. Then, MAYBE, you can move onto the U.S. stadiums.


----------



## XCRunner

spyguy999 said:


> Soldier Field (eventually the Chicago Fire will move to their new stadium)


Those are nice pics. Were you at that game? Or any other soccer games at Soldier Field recently? I go there way more for that than for The Bears (who I love btw).


----------



## rantanamo

XCRunner said:


> Do you not know anything about anything outside of the U.S.? Or were you just trying to be funny? Or were you born yesterday? Alright, maybe I'm being a little harsh here, but seriously, to consider the Home Depot Center the best in North America? If there were some way to quantify what makes a stadium great, The Azteca would beat it by about 10 million points. Then about 10 other Mexican stadiums. Then, MAYBE, you can move onto the U.S. stadiums.



Depends on what you mean by best. If you mean best soccer atmosphere, I'm sure it would be Azteca or something in South America, where soccer is king. If you mean, most modern or technology laden as best, then list of "better" stadiums than a Qwest, Soldier Field or Reliant in the world is very short if they aren't on the top of the list.

BTW, Soccer is played at Invesco


----------



## XCRunner

rantanamo said:


> Depends on what you mean by best. If you mean best soccer atmosphere, I'm sure it would be Azteca or something in South America, where soccer is king. If you mean, most modern or technology laden as best, then list of "better" stadiums than a Qwest, Soldier Field or Reliant in the world is very short if they aren't on the top of the list.
> 
> BTW, Soccer is played at Invesco


I see your point, but I still don't know if you could put the Home Depot Center up there. The only thing it has going for it is that it is designed specifically for soccer.


----------



## MoreOrLess

Isnt the plan with the new La Plata stadium to add on a duel circus tent style roof?

http://www.laplata.gov.ar/index.htm?gobierno/obraspublicas/Estadio/estadio.htm~central



bubomb said:


> If they gave the Azteca a refurbishment (just seats, facade etc, nothing major), then it would easily be the best stadium in the world.


What even with that horrible gaps between the fans and the pitch at one side like the new Wembley?


----------



## -ò_ó-

How about that? Azteca Stadium, Mexico City


----------



## Iggui

^^how ironic. a thread about soccer stadiums and here is azteca, one of the premier soccer stadiums in latin america, with pictures of an american football game. ha, ha..... (or "ja, ja..." in spanish)


----------



## -Corey-

wow "the big one"


----------



## -ò_ó-

Iggui said:


> ^^how ironic. a thread about soccer stadiums and here is azteca, one of the premier soccer stadiums in latin america, with pictures of an american football game. ha, ha..... (or "ja, ja..." in spanish)


hehe i know but i couldn't get a picture with similar size but with a fotball game


----------



## sharpie20

*Best AMERICAN stadiums??*

What do you think are the best stadiums, arenas or sporting venues in the US are??


----------



## ÜberMaromas

I think the reliant and the soldier field


----------



## High Life on LSD

Wrigley Field!


----------



## rantanamo

Conseco Field House has to be up there


----------



## USS Yankee

Yankee Stadium


----------



## CrazyCanuck

Raymond James, in Tampa.


----------



## BobDaBuilder

Indianapolis Motor Speedway.


----------



## Melchisedeck

1) Soldier field
2) Reliant Stadium
3) Ford Field.


----------



## ReddAlert

Wrigley Field is the best in my opinion.

heres a Wrigley picture.


----------



## 32 Stories

Ray Jay (Raymond James) Tampa


----------



## spyguy

Wrigley


----------



## nomarandlee

i'm so pizzed they are expanding the Wrigley bleachers. Hopefully it will not screw up the views.


----------



## TalB

Nothing beats MSG, which is the World's Most Famous Arena.


----------



## BaylorGuy314

What kind of American stadium?

There is just such a difference between the basic design of baseball, basketball, and american football stadiums. 

In American football, Reliant Stadium (PIC 1 & 2) in Houston, TX takes the cake...for now.

In basketball, Cameron Indoor (PIC 3 & 4) has one of the best environments in the country, although the design of the arena itself is very old. The same can be said about Allen Fieldhouse (PIC 5 & 6) in Lawrence, Kansas. I've only been to two NBA arena's (Toyota Center (PIC 7 & 8) in Houston, TX and American Airlines Center (PIC 9 & 10) in Dallas, TX) and I have to give the American Airlines Center the nod there, although it's only slightly more impressive. The atmosphere at NBA games and NCAA games is much, much different though.

As far as baseball is concerned, I love my own Baylor Ballpark in Waco, TX (PIC 11 & 12), but I am extremely biased. In all seriousness, I'd probably vote Wrigley Field (PIC 13 & 14) or Fenway Park (PIC 15 & 16) as the best baseball stadiums in the nation, although most other professional parks are newer, fancier, and have more gadgets, etc...

PIC 1 (Reliant Stadium):









PIC 2 (Reliant Stadium):









PIC 3 (Cameron Indoor):









PIC 4 (Carmeron Indoor):









PIC 5 (Allen Fieldhouse):









PIC 6 (Allen Fieldhouse):









PIC 7 (Toyota Center):









PIC 8 (Toyota Center):









PIC 9 (American Airlines Center):









PIC 10 (American Airlines Center):









PIC 11 (Baylor Ballpark):









PIC 12 (Baylor Ballpark):









PIC 13 (Wrigley Field):









PIC 14 (Wrigley Field):









PIC 15 (Fenway Park):









PIC 16 (Fenway Park):










Special mention to Oklahoma State's Gallagher Iba Arena in Stillwater, Oklahoma...


















...to the Rose Bowl in California...


















...and to Petco Park in San Diego, California:


----------



## Scba

I don't much like Soldier, it gives me the creeps. Maybe it's all the skyboxes. 

Here's one oddball you might not have seen before. Dr. Pepper/Seven Up Ballpark.
mg: 
mg:
mg:


----------



## BaylorGuy314

I do like Dr. Pepper/7up Ballpark, but IMO, the architectural style does not fit the Frisco (Texas) area at all. The design screams of something from the shores of Maine more than the plains of Tejas.

That being said, it's a beautiful ballpark.


----------



## edsg25

*Maximum size: college football stadium*

The NFL sure doesn't push the size issue of stadiums the way that colleges do. No NFL stadium has over 90,000 seats, yet in Division #1-A college football, the arms race is on. What once belonged to Michigan's Big House alone (100,000+) now belongs to Ohio State, Tennessee, Penn State, etc. 

And the arms race only continues. On one thread here, it showed a picture of what UT's stadium in Austin will look like when it maxes out at, I believe, 115,000.

College football is dominated by powerful football teams that seem to keep power for eternity. Each is referred to as *the program*, and part of the program that is every bit as important as the recruits on the field is the number of seats in the stands.

So clearly even 115,000 won't be the largest of these structures.

But what will be?

*At what point do you encircle a rectangluar field with endless tiers and reach a capacity level where the far away seats would need a telescope to see the game.

Simply put: what's the highest this number can grow....and still work?*


----------



## cmc

*Houston is now a Soccer City*

It has been officially announced that the San Jose Earthquakes will move to Houston. Tomorrow (12-16-05) the mayor, Bill White, will welcome the team to Houston at the city hall in the morning.


----------



## Iain1974

edsg25 said:


> The NFL sure doesn't push the size issue of stadiums the way that colleges do. No NFL stadium has over 90,000 seats, yet in Division #1-A college football, the arms race is on. What once belonged to Michigan's Big House alone (100,000+) now belongs to Ohio State, Tennessee, Penn State, etc.
> 
> And the arms race only continues. On one thread here, it showed a picture of what UT's stadium in Austin will look like when it maxes out at, I believe, 115,000.
> 
> College football is dominated by powerful football teams that seem to keep power for eternity. Each is referred to as *the program*, and part of the program that is every bit as important as the recruits on the field is the number of seats in the stands.
> 
> So clearly even 115,000 won't be the largest of these structures.
> 
> But what will be?
> 
> *At what point do you encircle a rectangluar field with endless tiers and reach a capacity level where the far away seats would need a telescope to see the game.
> 
> Simply put: what's the highest this number can grow....and still work?*



Well the record is about 200,000 for the Maracana but of course that includes standing room as well.

I think the rule of thumb is that spectators need to be no more than 190 meters from the furthest part of the field. Though who decided this and how I'm not sure. 

If I was guessing I'd say that 150,000 is about the maximum that can be accomodated in 'relative' comfort. Beyond that and I think the sheer logistics of having more people in a confined space would be overwhelming. How many toilet visits do 200,000 people require in 2 hours after all?


----------



## DrJoe

Isnt Reliant a little large for a soccer team??? They would be lucky to fill 1/3 of that place.


----------



## johnz88

You no one of the reasons they have such large capacities is because most if not all of the college stadiums have benches not seats and none of those stadiums could pass regulations for most sporting organizations. Plus there are no roofs on most.


----------



## kingdomca

But the thing is, can these venues not to a certain extent rely on their university to provide the logistics to make an extremly large crowd possible?

use school facilities for pre-match stuff, events, the school´s parking spaces spread round. Students living there attending by just walking there and alumni travelling far arriving early to minimise congestion etc.

Colleges need large capacities as I understand it, not least to attract alumni back to the school (and make donations) where football is just part of an event and a seat is vital, the actual view less important. There is an acceptance, or expectations of pretty basic bench-seating and very few games making roofs irrelevant.

Having said that I would consider US football probably ok to watch from far away as it works from set-pieces. even from way-up there you should be able to see players as a coloured dot if nothing else and understand play by their movement.

also considering that there will be about 100,000 at each days play of next years ashes cricket test at the MCG watching a similar set piece game with a much smaller ball, well it doesnt seem to be an issue under the right circumstances.
combining this, well I would say only the impact on infrastructure is in the way of a 200,000 stadium, though construction cost would put it some years off.

european football is different. It is about quality and corporate income etc like the NFL and with many more games and also more teams per capita at similar levels it will mainly be about building an awful lot of high quality 30-60,000 venues.

If the UK, which in the days o standing had many venues above 100,000 , will ever get a really big venue again it will be for cricket. and I think it could realistically happen in a decade.
Demand is way up and growing. There are potential fortunes to be made by selling countless millions of high-priced test tickets for days on end, and the length of games mean less congestion as arrival is spread out.
It may sound unlikely, and is speculative about the popularity of cricket in the future but apparently they could have sold 100,000 tickets easily for all days in the ashes thats millions of tickets. The potential income is staggering and could be hard to turn down one day.


----------



## MoreOrLess

As has been stated I'd expect the kind of seating plays a large role, I'd guess benched seating at somewhere like the new Wembley or Fedex Field would give you a capacity well above 100,000. Also from what I'v heard when it comes to modern all seater stadiums the ideal size is around 60-70,000, go beyond that and the cost per seat starts to rise.


----------



## cmc

I just put the picture to show a memorable soccer game in Houston, but the team will play at Robertson Stadium, while the city makes plans to built a soccer specific stadium.

Robertson Stadium- 33,000


----------



## Crocodine

Reliant Stadium = AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!

Congrats to Houston for having a soccer team. Who knows if Real Madrid will play there on the next year's tour. I hope so.


----------



## edsg25

great points on the bench (college) vs. seats (pro) configurations.

Have the expansions of the large stadiums continued the use of benches?


----------



## Zaqattaq

^ When we added 12,000 to Beaver Stadium in 2001 they were all seats instead of the benches in most of the stadium.

--------------------------
CFB thread
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=286428


----------



## Sexas

I think they will use the Astrodome


----------



## cmc

It would be a good idea to use the Astrodome, why coverted into a hotel or something else, when it has been a city icon of sports, it has hosted football, baseball, other non-sport events, and even a refuge, why not add soccer to the Astrodome's history. Plus, if that was the original problem to bring soccer to Houston, the lack of a soccer specific stadium, why not use it, I mean it's just sitting there.


----------



## KWEST

Now all the U.S. needs is best players money can buy


----------



## reluminate

johnz88 said:


> Plus there are no roofs on most.


Here we go again...


----------



## rantanamo

roof on college football stadium = vomit. That's about as nice as I could say it. I hope we never see that day.


----------



## bubomb

Good stuff. Now, the next stage is to start calling it by its proper name - football.

You are slowly getting there. Keep up the good work.


----------



## bubomb

rantanamo said:


> roof on college football stadium = vomit. That's about as nice as I could say it. I hope we never see that day.


but it rains in a lot of places in America. Why wouldn't you want a roof in an area where it rains a reasonable amount of the time?

Why do you hate roofs? Even if it hardly rains at all, what harm does a roof do?

You have bizarre attitudes towards roofs.

Do you have a roof on your house? or is that against tradition?


----------



## nomarandlee

blah, how patronizing .....


That is a good idea considering how big Houstons Latino population is. I wonder if they will put another team somewhere else in the Bay area though. As far as I knew I thought all of the big metros in Cali embraced soccer more then most.


----------



## 40Acres

we dont need roofs because we aren't pussies. need any more clarification?

PS. dont get pissy. its just a joke. sort of. college football is a different animal altogether. Do rugby stadiums NEED, and i mean, N-E-E-D roofs?


----------



## nomarandlee

sorry, but it doesn't rain in most places in the U.S. (except in the northwest, where they do have partial roofs on some stadiums) as much as in northern Europe.

Americans also like this thing called sunshine. Most Americans I think would rather be under the sun with Gods rays beaming down on them in sunlight 7 out of 10 days then worry about the 1 out of 10 games where they have to worry about a little drizzle.

To me if you watch a game under an oppresive low hung well extended roof you might as well just put "the pitch" or field and put it in an arenea.


----------



## bubomb

nomarandlee said:


> sorry, but it doesn't rain in most places in the U.S. (except in the northwest, where they do have partial roofs on some stadiums) as much as in northern Europe.
> 
> Americans also like this thing called sunshine. Most Americans I think would rather be under the sun with Gods rays beaming down on them in sunlight 7 out of 10 days then worry about the 1 out of 10 games where they have to worry about a little drizzle.
> 
> To me if you watch a game under an oppresive low hung well extended roof you might as well just put "the pitch" or field and put it in an arenea.


I said it rains in some places. I didn't say most. So you just confirmed what I thought.

What's an 'oppresive' roof? Is that a roof that calls you names and gives you low paid jobs?


----------



## bubomb

40Acres said:


> we dont need roofs because we aren't pussies. need any more clarification?
> 
> PS. dont get pissy. its just a joke. sort of. college football is a different animal altogether. Do rugby stadiums NEED, and i mean, N-E-E-D roofs?



No stadium NEEDS a roof, they don't even NEED toilets. The roof is just a nice thing to have incase it rains.

I understand not having a roof in an area with a nice climate. But stadiums in areas with decent amounts of rainfall should be totally roofed. 

I don't get why you said 'Rugby' stadium? A stadium is a stadium, what's rugby got to do with it?

or was it just an example?


----------



## Welshlad

its quite worrying that footy is getting big in the USA, soon they'll be whooping ass at it.... we shouldnt be celebrating the fact that they are beginning to realise the beauty of the best sport on the planet!!!

lol, joking aside, it is good to see footy becoming more popular even in the states


----------



## Lance

I think the best teams (domestic) are always gonna be in europe.... thats just the way it is. But it will be good to have a competitive league in the U.S. A higher profile and support will only result in higher quality, which will be good for everyone!


----------



## nomarandlee

Welshlad said:


> its quite worrying that footy is getting big in the USA, soon they'll be whooping ass at it.... we shouldnt be celebrating the fact that they are beginning to realise the beauty of the best sport on the planet!!!
> 
> lol, joking aside, it is good to see footy becoming more popular even in the states



 Any sport refered to as "footy" should be banned on that principle alone.


----------



## nomarandlee

bubomb said:


> I said it rains in some places. I didn't say most. So you just confirmed what I thought.
> 
> What's an 'oppresive' roof? Is that a roof that calls you names and gives you low paid jobs?



yes, something like that. Also the tendancy to do all they can to seperate humans from mother natures elemants and brilliant majesty. No sunshine, no stars, no clouds, no snow, no blue sky.

Just an ugly teflon or metal overhang for you to look right up into. No thanks.


----------



## 2005

No surprise FOOTBALL (soccer) is without a shadow of a doubt the best sport in the world i.e. the most popular.


----------



## Mac

How can any team build up a loyal following, when at the drop of a hat, they can just move to a different city and new supporters?....its crazy.


----------



## 2005

Mac said:


> How can any team build up a loyal following, when at the drop of a hat, they can just move to a different city and new supporters?....its crazy.


They will do it and it shall take time ever heard of the saying "patience is a virtue".


----------



## edsg25

a domed stadium was the "goof-er" that killed Minnesota football.

College football tradition dictates being outside, facing the elements.


----------



## danJonze87

Yes but still, where does that leave the San Jose fans?

It's an aspect of American sport that i really do not agree with.


----------



## HiJazzey

Why didn't they move to somewhere else in the bay area?


----------



## Urban Dave

What an amazing arena for soccer!


----------



## rantanamo

Most of the rainiest places have more torrential rains in the spring. That's how it is in Texas. In the fall, when football is played its first warm and sunny in most of the US. You might get one rainy game per season. Most seasons you get none. Maybe a wet game once in a while because of rain the day before. Then you MIGHT get some snow for 2-3 games in colder climates. Again, maybe. Remember, ONE GAME PER WEEK. There is simply no justification for a roof unless its retractable for indoor events or if you're in a very cold or extremely hot climate. Then its not even necessary either. The weather is simply a great thing in the US. Especially during football season. If football were played in the spring, you might see lots of roofs.

I can say that in my years at UT and since then, I can remember two games where it rained. I enrolled at UT in 1996. I remember the first game I saw vs New Mexico St in 1996 and Oklahoma St in 1998 as the only times it rained at DKR on gameday. I'm sure there were a few more. But not many.


----------



## dave8721

Even in Miami, one of the rainiest places in the U.S. has most of its rain fall in the Summer months. Only a couple UM games this year had rain fall.


----------



## Lance

I agree with the whole moving thing. I mean if they move to the same general area where the original fans can easily travel... then fair enough. If they move miles and miles away, then surely they will lose all their fans and end up having to start afresh.... except maybe a few glory supporters.


----------



## soup or man

Lance said:


> I think the best teams (domestic) are always gonna be in europe.... thats just the way it is. But it will be good to have a competitive league in the U.S. A higher profile and support will only result in higher quality, which will be good for everyone!


Best soccer team in the US is the LA Galaxy.

Btw..what does the FC in FC Dallas and Real in Real Madrid mean?


----------



## Nolke

FC = Football Club
Real = Royal in spanish


----------



## northern italian

2005 said:


> No surprise FOOTBALL (soccer) is without a shadow of a doubt the best sport in the world i.e. the most popular.


 :sleepy: :sleepy: :sleepy: :sleepy: :sleepy: :sleepy: 

Never been in a basketball arena ?


----------



## staff

northern italian said:


> :sleepy: :sleepy: :sleepy: :sleepy: :sleepy: :sleepy:
> 
> Never been in a basketball arena ?


:lol:


----------



## AcesHigh

cmc said:


> It would be a good idea to use the Astrodome, why coverted into a hotel or something else, when it has been a city icon of sports, it has hosted football, baseball, other non-sport events, and even a refuge, why not add soccer to the Astrodome's history. Plus, if that was the original problem to bring soccer to Houston, the lack of a soccer specific stadium, why not use it, I mean it's just sitting there.


The Astrodome cant be used because its a completely closed stadium, where natural grass dont receive sunlight and cant grow. And FIFA FORBIDS professional football games of being played on artificial grass.




It sucks for a team to simply change city! Thats what happens when a team is a franchise instead of a CLUB, like in all large football nations.


----------



## bubomb

nomarandlee said:


> yes, something like that. Also the tendancy to do all they can to seperate humans from mother natures elemants and brilliant majesty. No sunshine, no stars, no clouds, no snow, no blue sky.
> 
> Just an ugly teflon or metal overhang for you to look right up into. No thanks.



erm......ok


----------



## northern italian

staff said:


> :lol:


Fux soccer, sorry but I hate it 

Anyway there are lot of sports much more exciting and nice than soccer ... one of these is for sure basketball.


----------



## great prairie

danJonze87 said:


> Yes but still, where does that leave the San Jose fans?
> 
> It's an aspect of American sport that i really do not agree with.


The San Jose fans weren't supporting the team enough which is why they moved....


----------



## great prairie

bubomb said:


> but it rains in a lot of places in America. Why wouldn't you want a roof in an area where it rains a reasonable amount of the time?
> 
> Why do you hate roofs? Even if it hardly rains at all, what harm does a roof do?
> 
> You have bizarre attitudes towards roofs.
> 
> Do you have a roof on your house? or is that against tradition?


If you don't understand College Football don't bother posting about it...

also that is a very dumb analogy


----------



## NovaWolverine

having the fans in the rain or snow or whatever is a part of it too. It shows loyalty and gives a better experience.


----------



## DetroitBosnian

It doesnt rain that much in Michigan, and the wolverines season ends usually before it snows, so adding a roof seems pointless. I would like to see Michigan Stadium top 150,000. That would be cool.


----------



## cmc

AcesHigh said:


> The Astrodome cant be used because its a completely closed stadium, where natural grass dont receive sunlight and cant grow. And FIFA FORBIDS professional football games of being played on artificial grass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It sucks for a team to simply change city! Thats what happens when a team is a franchise instead of a CLUB, like in all large football nations.


I don't if you're aware that the New York Metrostars play on turf...
:eek2:
Giants Stadium


----------



## dewback

cmc said:


> I don't if you're aware that the New York Metrostars play on turf...
> :eek2:
> Giants Stadium


Yeah, but their games are not professional FIFA games. The Astrodome couldn't host a game between two national teams.


----------



## cphdude

northern italian said:


> :sleepy: :sleepy: :sleepy: :sleepy: :sleepy: :sleepy:
> 
> Never been in a basketball arena ?


Not one with 90.000 audience members...


----------



## bubomb

NovaWolverine said:
 

> having the fans in the rain or snow or whatever is a part of it too. It shows loyalty and gives a better experience.



It's a better experience watching a game for 2+ hours sitting in the wind, rain or snow?


erm....ok!


----------



## Sexas

bubomb said:


> It's a better experience watching a game for 2+ hours sitting in the wind, rain or snow?
> 
> 
> erm....ok!


Bubomb I live in Austin home to the UT, I can tell you it is way better watching it with crazy weather...it is not about the football (who care the football anyway!) it is all about the party and beers!


----------



## bubomb

Sexas said:


> Bubomb I live in Austin home to the UT, I can tell you it is way better watching it with crazy weather...it is not about the football (who care the football anyway!) it is all about the party and beers!



Fair enough. Its just that when I went to parties in my student days, we always had them in the student halls or someones house (unless it was the summer). I don't think i've ever seen a party being held outdoors in the snow or rain!! You would look stupid and people would point and laugh.

You would get cold and wet!! The rain would break the MIDI system!! In fact, where would you plug it in?

Anybody who prefers a party in the rain and snow, as opposed to the sun, must be a bit simple.


----------



## bubomb

I have to say that most these college stadiums are quite poor. They are big, but they look poor and are very basic.

A lot of them look like huge temporary stands with exposed frames holding them up. The Michigan Stadium reminds me of the old hampden. Terrible sight lines, and no facilities. Basically a big hole in the ground. A lot of them even have wooden benches instead of proper seats.

However, Ohio Stadium does look impressive. Kyle Field will be very good if they build behind the goal (which I think they are planning to do).

Still, a 100000 stadium for a University is very impressive regardless of the quality of the stadium.


----------



## nomarandlee

cphdude said:


> Not one with 90.000 audience members...



huh? What does that have to do with anything?


----------



## Lostboy

In fairness the very nature of sports like Ice Hockey and Basketball would mean that was impossible, but it doesn't mean the support base isn't there.


----------



## Iain1974

great prairie said:


> The San Jose fans weren't supporting the team enough which is why they moved....



Same thing hapenned when Wimbledon moved to Milton Keynes to become the MK Dons. The Wimbledon supporters abandoned them and set up their own team. Doing very well they are too in the Ryman League, Premier Division. Thats Division 7 level.

League Structure


----------



## empersouf

Soccer is gettingbigger and bigger in the us right?


----------



## Iain1974

The college stadiums really aren't a lot different in quality to the old ones in Britain of not so long ago before the Taylor report changed everything.

Many people, a definate majority in my opinion, preferred the old style stadiums with huge terraces. I'm sure bubomb can remember paying 3 quid to watch Rangers in the 80's.

These days the British stadiums are much more similar to NFL stadiums in quality (and ticket price). Most are smaller of course but with places like Majdeski or Pride Park they're best described as the lower tier of an NFL ground (with the obligitary roof).


----------



## XCRunner

Lance said:


> I think the best teams (domestic) are always gonna be in europe.... thats just the way it is. But it will be good to have a competitive league in the U.S. A higher profile and support will only result in higher quality, which will be good for everyone!


I think so too. Even if the sport does become popular here in the U.S. and the clubs became as rich as top European clubs, we would have competitions similar to the Premiership, La Liga, and Serie A, but we would have nowehere to go after that. We would have nothing as good as the Champions League/ UEFA Cup b/c there would not be any other really great leagues in CONCACAF (Mexico, but that would still only be 2 leagues, not 20 quality leagues like in Europe).


----------



## XCRunner

Threehundred said:


> Best soccer team in the US is the LA Galaxy.
> 
> Btw..what does the FC in FC Dallas and Real in Real Madrid mean?


Best team in the U.S. _overalll_ is D.C. United. If you mean the current champions then, yes, it is the Galaxy.

FC = football club
real = ?


----------



## Morten M

AcesHigh said:


> The Astrodome cant be used because its a completely closed stadium, where natural grass dont receive sunlight and cant grow. And FIFA FORBIDS professional football games of being played on artificial grass.


That is not correct! Artificial turf is allowed in official matches like the Champions League and UEFA Cup.

http://www.thefa.com/Grassroots/Fac...stings/2004/11/UEFAApprovesArtificialTurf.htm


----------



## XCRunner

Soufian said:


> Soccer is gettingbigger and bigger in the us right?


Debateable. I sure hope it is. And I think it will be big one day, but this is not for sure. Having a 0-0 tie at the end of regulation of the MLS final is not very good advertising to U.S. sports fans. Also, when the U.S. made it to the quarter-finals at the last World Cup, it drew tons of publicity to the sport. I don't see that happening this time with the group we're in...


----------



## Scba

bubomb said:


> I have to say that most these college stadiums are quite poor. They are big, but they look poor and are very basic.
> 
> A lot of them look like huge temporary stands with exposed frames holding them up. The Michigan Stadium reminds me of the old hampden. Terrible sight lines, and no facilities. Basically a big hole in the ground. A lot of them even have wooden benches instead of proper seats.
> 
> However, Ohio Stadium does look impressive. Kyle Field will be very good if they build behind the goal (which I think they are planning to do).
> 
> Still, a 100000 stadium for a University is very impressive regardless of the quality of the stadium.


They are poor quality because for the most part, they aren't used for much. Teams only play half a dozen or so home games a year, so unless the capacity was high enough or in a top school, the cost of a state-of-the-art stadium just wouldn't be as profitable.


----------



## rantanamo

I think bubomb has missed the US vs World and EU threads. This stuff has been argued and argued. And no this stuff isn't temporary.


----------



## bubomb

Iain1974 said:


> The college stadiums really aren't a lot different in quality to the old ones in Britain of not so long ago before the Taylor report changed everything.
> 
> Many people, a definate majority in my opinion, preferred the old style stadiums with huge terraces. I'm sure bubomb can remember paying 3 quid to watch Rangers in the 80's.
> 
> These days the British stadiums are much more similar to NFL stadiums in quality (and ticket price). Most are smaller of course but with places like Majdeski or Pride Park they're best described as the lower tier of an NFL ground (with the obligitary roof).


I think the reason a lot of people prefered the old grounds wasn't because of the poor facilities, but because you could stand. Each week you could meet your mates on the same area of the terrace. You also didn't need a season ticket. You could go one week, then maybe not the next week as you might be busy. In other words, you could choose when to go. You didn't have to fork out £400 up front, you could pay when you wanted to.

For me, the new German grounds are perfect. Modern, safe stadiums with superb facilities, but still the option to stand in areas with terracing. The perfect combination.


----------



## bubomb

XCRunner said:


> Debateable. I sure hope it is. And I think it will be big one day, but this is not for sure. Having a 0-0 tie at the end of regulation of the MLS final is not very good advertising to U.S. sports fans. Also, when the U.S. made it to the quarter-finals at the last World Cup, it drew tons of publicity to the sport. I don't see that happening this time with the group we're in...


Some of the best games i've ever seen have been 0-0's.


----------



## Lance

Thats another problem. Americans are used to reasonably high scoring games. If somebody just sees results on T.V of 0-0, 1-0 etc etc then they are likely to think they are boring games. Obviously, as mentioned by bubomb thats not always the case.... but without watching and understanding how the sport works it wont get appreciated. Getting people understanding the sport is the big challenge.


----------



## TalB

I always thought that Houston was a baskettball city after the recent championships from both the Rockets and the Comets.


----------



## johnz88

Hey since americans say soccer, how can FC Dallas be called "FC" when it stands for football club and plus it isn't even a club its a franchise. Same with Real Salt Lake, i bet if you ask their fans, they won't no what the Real part means.


----------



## cmc

dewback said:


> Yeah, but their games are not professional FIFA games. The Astrodome couldn't host a game between two national teams.


The Gold Cup final was held at this stadium (Giants Stadium)
and plus I've seen and have been to games for the 2006 world cup caulifying games, like the games at Costa Rica's, Ricardo Saprissa Stadium (field turf)and the game I went to in San Antonio between Mexico & Dominica, it was played in field turf......
what else do you want to know....


----------



## TexasBoi

XCRunner said:


> Debateable. I sure hope it is. And I think it will be big one day, but this is not for sure. Having a 0-0 tie at the end of regulation of the MLS final is not very good advertising to U.S. sports fans. Also, when the U.S. made it to the quarter-finals at the last World Cup, it drew tons of publicity to the sport. I don't see that happening this time with the group we're in...


Exactly. I believe the sport(Soccer, Football whatever you want to call it) is getting bigger no doubt in this country. But it will stay behind the NFL, NBA, MLB as well as the NHL in the country. Americans don't like 0-0 games nor do we like 2-2 games. Americans would be pissed at 5-5 games. They like points and despise ties. That's a good reason why the NHL had trouble in most American markets because of the low scoring and the ties. Now that they got rid of it and there are more scoring, people are slowly start to watch the sport again.


----------



## NovaWolverine

Yeah, MLS is definitely finding it's place in the US, it's going to take a while though, but what Americans on the large scale need to do is appreciate the skill that's involved on the little things, not just goal scoring, I think once that's accepted more, like how it is in hockey people will like it, I actually think hockey is very similar and MLS could become like the NHL someday. I know in the DC area soccer and lacrosse are two more obscure sports that there is a ton of following for.


----------



## bubomb

TexasBoi said:


> Exactly. I believe the sport(Soccer, Football whatever you want to call it) is getting bigger no doubt in this country. But it will stay behind the NFL, NBA, MLB as well as the NHL in the country. Americans don't like 0-0 games nor do we like 2-2 games. Americans would be pissed at 5-5 games. They like points and despise ties. That's a good reason why the NHL had trouble in most American markets because of the low scoring and the ties. Now that they got rid of it and there are more scoring, people are slowly start to watch the sport again.


Why do they despise ties? Winning, losing and drawing are all part of the game. I simply don't understand why somebody would hate a draw.

Rangers drew away to Porto this year. I was over the moon.

No disrespect, but is it because Americans in general have shorter attention spans than others, and need an obvious winner rather than spending time working out if a draw was a good result or not? In other words, they need lots of obvious big things happening to keep their attention.

It's sounds a bit like Hollywood. Crap films with big explosions and wise-cracking cops do better than classic thinking movies like 'Der Untergang'.

Britain also suffers from this dumbing down for the masses, although probably not as much as America.


----------



## nomarandlee

bubomb said:


> Why do they despise ties? Winning, losing and drawing are all part of the game. I simply don't understand why somebody would hate a draw.
> 
> Rangers drew away to Porto this year. I was over the moon.
> 
> No disrespect, but is it because Americans in general have shorter attention spans than others, and need an obvious winner rather than spending time working out if a draw was a good result or not? In other words, they need lots of obvious big things happening to keep their attention.
> 
> It's sounds a bit like Hollywood. Crap films with big explosions and wise-cracking cops do better than classic thinking movies like 'Der Untergang'.
> 
> Britain also suffers from this dumbing down for the masses, although probably not as much as America.



Yes, Americans are all just dumb ADD bastards. And not nearly as much as Britts (anymore dumb generlizations?)

I think Americans just like a winner at the end of the day. If a draw was all it was cracked up to be then why wouldn't their be draws allowed at the end of championship soccer/football games? I mean if one is unacceptable as a result in one instance shouldn't it be in another? There is just no excuse not to play through to and end result in my mind. There is nothing more awesome in sport to play to the bitter end for all the marbles and stakes in one game. The drama usualy increases the longer an overtime periods goes and a result is in the balence. 

As far as scoring? Well, yea that is a problem maybe. But it also goes the other way. I used to be a big basketball fan but for me the scoring is almost too frequant and easy. Without fail most games teams will also get within 80-100 points (I would say 75% of the time) I like games that are not very predictable and often have a wide variety of scoring. In baseball it is not all that uncommon to find a 1-0 or 2-0 score. Also there are certain games where teams will blow up and there will be scores like 18-2 or 17-0 (though pretty darn rare). In football teams often score as little as 0 or 3 points and at times score as many 7 touchdowns (49 points or thereabouts). There is so much variety in the scoring that indicates how well a team played or didn't play.


----------



## Xander

FC means Football Club, and Real means Royal (I think).

Why the **** are they moving to Houston??? Thats so shit, imagine if Chelsea moved to Liverpool or something, the most stupid thing iv ever heard!!!!


----------



## bubomb

nomarandlee said:


> Yes, Americans are all just dumb ADD bastards. And not nearly as much as Britts (anymore dumb generlizations?)
> 
> I think Americans just like a winner at the end of the day. If a draw was all it was cracked up to be then why wouldn't their be draws allowed at the end of championship soccer/football games? I mean if one is unacceptable as a result in one instance shouldn't it be in another? There is just no excuse not to play through to and end result in my mind. There is nothing more awesome in sport to play to the bitter end for all the marbles and stakes in one game. The drama usualy increases the longer an overtime periods goes and a result is in the balence.
> 
> As far as scoring? Well, yea that is a problem maybe. But it also goes the other way. I used to be a big basketball fan but for me the scoring is almost too frequant and easy. Without fail most games teams will also get within 80-100 points (I would say 75% of the time) I like games that are not very predictable and often have a wide variety of scoring. In baseball it is not all that uncommon to find a 1-0 or 2-0 score. Also there are certain games where teams will blow up and there will be scores like 18-2 or 17-0 (though pretty darn rare). In football teams often score as little as 0 or 3 points and at times score as many 7 touchdowns (49 points or thereabouts). There is so much variety in the scoring that indicates how well a team played or didn't play.



I hope you deliberately spelt ass wrong!

Draws are allowed in league games because it gives more options for points and makes it more exciting. Sometimes you need a draw, sometimes a win, sometimes you don't know if a draw is enough! It all adds up to the excitement of who will win the league, qualify for Europe, get relegated etc.

Penalty shoot-outs in Cups are very exciting because they don't happen that often. If they happened every week, they would no longer be exciting as you would get used to them. There is nothing more nerve-racking that a World Cup penalty shoot-out (as England always hilariously find out).


----------



## TalB

NovaWolverine said:


> Yeah, MLS is definitely finding it's place in the US, it's going to take a while though, but what Americans on the large scale need to do is appreciate the skill that's involved on the little things, not just goal scoring, I think once that's accepted more, like how it is in hockey people will like it, I actually think hockey is very similar and MLS could become like the NHL someday. I know in the DC area soccer and lacrosse are two more obscure sports that there is a ton of following for.


It's interesting to hear about that, b/c many people would have thought that the MLS would have died after its first few seasons, but it didn't. Unfortunately, it is liked as much as it is around the world. Maybe if the MLS managed to get Ronaldo, more would end up watching like they would in the UEFA leagues. On a sidenote, the WNBA will probably be nexting in finding its place.


----------



## Aquarius

Real Sant Lake? :sleepy: The United States is not a monarchy, that name is stupid..

In Spain many clubs have crown in their shield...

Real Betis Balompie in Sevilla










Real club Deportivo de La Coruña










Real Club Deportivo Espanyol de Barcelona










Real sociedad de Fútbol










Real Zaragoza










..........and more...


----------



## Martuh

AcesHigh said:


> The Astrodome cant be used because its a completely closed stadium, where natural grass dont receive sunlight and cant grow. And FIFA FORBIDS professional football games of being played on artificial grass.
> 
> It sucks for a team to simply change city! Thats what happens when a team is a franchise instead of a CLUB, like in all large football nations.


Nonsense. In The Netherlands, we have three professional teams (one in the Eredivisie) who play on artificial grass, they all meet the highest standards. Although artificial grass sucks and real grass kicks ass :bash:


----------



## DnH

How come only rich kids and middleclass youths play soccer in U.S?
In other countries its the other way around most of the time.


----------



## XCRunner

bubomb said:


> Some of the best games i've ever seen have been 0-0's.


I totally agree with you on this one. It may be hard to comprehend why this is if you're not from America (you are Scottish, correct?), but for some reason sports fans in the U.S. don't like ties. Steve Rushin just wrote an article about this in Sports Illustrated, about how the tie has dissapeared from North American sports.

In 1932 the Chicago Bears tied six games. There has only been one tie in the last six NFL seasons. The NHL just got rid of the tie. He goes on to mention how the tie is cherished is soccer (or football, whatever the hell one wants to call it). And how he thinks it should have a place in U.S. sports. I agree with him, but sadly, I think most here would disagree. They would maybe be okay with a tie if it had some goals, but not a 0-0 tie.

Soccer has a reputation here of being "boring" because there isn't enough scoring. I don't see how it's that much different from American Football. A 3-2 game is the same as 21-14 game. And even if there is less scoring (which there is). what's wrong with that? Americans don't like it for some reason, and I don't know why. Basketball is just the opposite. Scoring is so routine, it happens at about every other posession. This sometimes bores me, so I don't see why people don't have a problem with this but they have a problem with soccer. I'm not slaming basketball here, i like it as much as soccer.

So that's why a 0-0 draw in the final is a bad advertisement for MLS.


----------



## XCRunner

DnH said:


> How come only rich kids and middleclass youths play soccer in U.S?
> In other countries its the other way around most of the time.


That's not true. What about Eddie Johnson (I mean the Eddie Johnson who plays for FC Dallas, not the one on loan to Crewe Alexandra)?


----------



## nomarandlee

DnH said:


> How come only rich kids and middleclass youths play soccer in U.S?
> In other countries its the other way around most of the time.


 Because overprotective parents don't want their kids playing tougher sports like baseball (a line drive to the head with a baseball to an 8 year old can be pretty serious stuff), ice hocky, or American football. The rules are also relativley straight forward and makes kids run around the most and become tired (which most parents can appreciate). Plus it is rather inexpensive to play and run a league.


----------



## StuckInOklahoma

*Poor quality?*

Poor quality? Yea, this definitely screams poor quality:

Oklahoma Memorial Stadium: University of Oklahoma


































































































































What bleachers? Approximately 10-15k of the 82,000 seats are chairback.


----------



## BaylorGuy314

First of all, BuBomb, I don't think you understand the college game very well.

Most college stadiums are 50+ years old and hold lots of tradition. Many have existed since the 1920s, when the average attendnace was a couple of hundred spectators. No one wants to tear these old stadiums down and build state of the art, NFL-like stadiums. It costs a lot of money and you have to do it over and over again, something that most universities simply cannot afford. The average fan doesn't want to throw away the history and tradition for a chairback, armrests, air conditioning, a roof, or nice concessions.

In most college stadiums, most of the crowd stands for the entire game and never sits, except at halftime. Tailgating before and after the game is done whether it's -17C or 48C outside. Many tailgaters bring their own generators and large tents so they can watch TV, use stereos, etc, outdoors. I know when I tailgate, we usually get out there at about 9am for a 2pm game and stay for several hours afterwards. 

The reason there aren't roofs on most college stadiums is because it's stupid. Most colleges play 5-6 home games a year. The chances of absolutely horrid weather on one of those days is minimal, especially when you consider that Fall is not the rainy season in the US. If it does rain during a game, it usually only happens on one game per year. 

Teams in the northeast (the rainiest part of the US) have roofs, but they are the only ones that experience that much rainfall.

The biggest reason roofs aren't on college stadiums is that there is an accepted feeling that if you can't stand through the rain, sleet, snow, hail, or 50C heat, then you aren't a true fan. If the team plays in it, then the fans should sit or stand through it. I agree.

Sounds like you are expected collegiate stadiums to be NFL quality. If you need seatbacks, luxury concessions, a roof, A/C, and WANT to be indoor before a game, then you aren't cut out to be a college football fan.


----------



## BaylorGuy314

No sport should allow a tie or draw. That's just dumb. 

How can you walk away with a winner in some games and not others?

BuBomb, ADD stands for Attention Deficit Disorder.

Basketball and football are played by the "lower class" here in the US and it has been that way for quite sometime now. Don't know why, it just has.

People say that Americans just need to learn about the smaller things, other than just scoring, such as the matchups between players. That's the same thing we've been telling Europeans about baseball for years, but for some reason, it hasn't caught on.

It's just two different cultures. 

Personally, I think baseball is the greatest sport in the world. Why hasn't Europe caught on to that yet?


----------



## MoreOrLess

BaylorGuy314 said:


> First of all, BuBomb, I don't think you understand the college game very well.
> 
> Most college stadiums are 50+ years old and hold lots of tradition. Many have existed since the 1920s, when the average attendnace was a couple of hundred spectators. No one wants to tear these old stadiums down and build state of the art, NFL-like stadiums. It costs a lot of money and you have to do it over and over again, something that most universities simply cannot afford. The average fan doesn't want to throw away the history and tradition for a chairback, armrests, air conditioning, a roof, or nice concessions.


In that respect college stadiums are much more like British football grounds than NFL ones are. In both cases the club is inextricably linked to its location(Wimbledon moving to Milton Keeyes being a very unpopoular exception) and without the garenteed revenue of the NFL(clubs can be religated or fail to quality for the Champions League thus reducing their income).Even the new Wembley is being built on the site of the old stadium not because its an espeically good location but out of tradision. Whats causing a few clubs to build new stadiums in different locations recently is the fact that all seater grounds were introduced 15 years ago after the Hillsborough disaster thus reducing capacitys of grounds that don't have any room to redevolp due to being in the middle of towns/cities. I'd say that has effected the use of roofs aswell since many of those old standing room stands were uncovered, it is afterall much more unpleasent to sit in the rain than it is to stand in it.

I don't have anything agenst grounds having benchs/standing room its just that with such room you can obviously fit more people in a physically smaller stadium. Most British fans would I'd guess welcome the return of well designed standing areas as used in germany right now whether they preffer to stand or not now that holiganism has been largely removed from the game as they'd likely boost capacities, help atmosphere and reduce ticket prices. With the greater level of public interest in football compaired to the 80's I wouldnt be supprized if the likes of Man Utd could pull in monster attendances similar to collage teams if that happened.


----------



## XCRunner

How is it dumb to have a draw? You seem like you like sports, which means you would enjoy Sports Illustrated. Read Steve Rushin's article that I talked about in my other posts.

And what's more exciting: A win that's a total blowout, or a nail-biter that goes down to the very, bitter end? So what if it ends in a draw. No matter who you are, or what your favorite sport is, everyone has to admit that a hard-fought, blood, seat, and tears, down-to-the-wire game is better than a lopsided, run-up-the-score victory. What's wrong with having two equal teams?


----------



## Kampflamm

I can't believe that there's actually a team called "Real Salt Lake". That city has the most inappropriate team names (see Utah Jazz).


----------



## Kampflamm

At least Chivas USA has a decent logo


----------



## BaylorGuy314

XCRunner said:


> And what's more exciting: A win that's a total blowout, or a nail-biter that goes down to the very, bitter end? So what if it ends in a draw. No matter who you are, or what your favorite sport is, everyone has to admit that a hard-fought, blood, seat, and tears, down-to-the-wire game is better than a lopsided, run-up-the-score victory. What's wrong with having two equal teams?


Sure, I love close, hard fought games. That's the best kind- a down to the wire type game like the Baylor-OU game that ended in double overtime in Norman this year. I was on the edge of my seat for the last hour. OU ended up winning, but that's ok. I would've been pissed off to no end if they would've declared the game a tie though.

No one wants to see a blowout, but everyone loves to see games in overtime or extra innings. One of the greatest games I've ever watched was the 6 hour long, 18 inning Houston-Atlanta baseball game earlier this year. Of course, I'm biased towards Houston, but I would've been incredibly upset had that game ended in a hard fought "draw." The crowd goes to see a win or loss, not a tie. It's why they took it out of college football years ago.


----------



## BaylorGuy314

Exactly. Collegiate stadiums are built on the college campus. Here's a picture of Notre Dame's grounds:










The stadium has been there for generations. It would be extremely difficult and costly to build a new state of the art stadium there. It would also be throwing away nearly 100 years of tradition. 

Instead, college stadiums have been adding and expanding the press box area of stadiums. It is in these press boxes that the luxury amenities are located, such as suites, restaurants, bars, A/C, heat, etc, etc. Prices for these areas are at a premium though and the average fan cannot afford these seats.

There is simply a lot of tradition in many stadiums in the US that people wouldn't trade for the upgrades. It's the same reason that Wrigley Field in Chicago, Fenway Park in Boston, Allen Fieldhouse in Lawrence, and more haven't built new facilities. 

I would rather watch my teams play a game sitting on a bleacher in the boiling heat than to sit in the A/C in a suite. The latter type of atmosphere takes away from the experience.


----------



## johnz88

Thats changing now, the image of the "soccer mom" is fading, those kids were rich and just played for fun but now its turning into playing it because you love it and there is somewhere you can get with it.


----------



## nomarandlee

Iain1974 said:


> The college stadiums really aren't a lot different in quality to the old ones in Britain of not so long ago before the Taylor report changed everything.
> 
> Many people, a definate majority in my opinion, preferred the old style stadiums with huge terraces. I'm sure bubomb can remember paying 3 quid to watch Rangers in the 80's.
> 
> These days the British stadiums are much more similar to NFL stadiums in quality (and ticket price). Most are smaller of course but with places like Majdeski or Pride Park they're best described as the lower tier of an NFL ground (with the obligitary roof).



Let us non-UK folk in on what the Taylor reports were if you don't mind? I am pretty intrigued.


----------



## NovaWolverine

Basically, let's just acknowledge that there's no way in which people that have never been to a college football game and live in another continent and don't even really follow american football will understand what we're talking about. 

It's similar to soccer I don't know why it's hard to understand. And Americans are supposed to be the materialistic ones. It's about having up to 100k fans, many of them rowdy especially the students, yelling and screaming for your team, your yelling every defensive play to distract the opposing team, and not worrying about your stupid cup holder, put it on the damn floor. It's about the bands and pageantry, the tailgating, the talking trash.

And no, it's not too early for it to snow in michigan, the last game is in the third week of november, and it has snowed numerous times for this last game. 

All you foreign people are fixated on is the attendance and comparing it to euro stadia, it's not the big a deal, it's about the atmosphere and tradition and quality of team and program before the attendance. Attendance is important to the ones that are big like michigan, penn state, osu, tennessee, etc, but a lot of it is the experience. 

And this idea of a roof, it's nice but not necessary, having the experience of being in sub freezing temperature with snow, being bundled up, and still yelling your ass off, that is definitely a part of the experience, sorry if soccer people can't understand and I love soccer btw. 

And the other 100k plus people in the stadium doing the same, that's what it's all about. Standing and seating room, sure that's great, but it's about getting off your ass and rooting for your team creating an exciting and memorable experience, even handicapped, grandmas, I want everyone yelling. 

Michigan Stadium is planning the new renovation, it's gonna had better bathrooms and handicap access along with more room per person, hopefully not compromising the attendance, which we love to be at the top with. It's being debated whether to add luxury boxes, because the stadium hasn't discriminated in the past with seating, it's symbolic, but the added revenue would be great, there aren't any advertisements at all in michigan stadium.


----------



## XCRunner

Kampflamm said:


> I can't believe that there's actually a team called "Real Salt Lake". That city has the most inappropriate team names (see Utah Jazz).


Real Salt Lake is a really, really boring, uncreative, and above all else out-of-place name for that team; indeed, any America team. As for the Jazz, they used to be in New Orleans, so that explains it.


----------



## XCRunner

BaylorGuy314 said:


> The crowd goes to see a win or loss, not a tie. It's why they took it out of college football years ago.


No... I'm pretty sure the corwd goes and pays good money to see great games, played by great athletes at the top of their games. If they went to see wins and losses, then they could just walk down the street and watch a Little League baseball game for free. If people only go to games to see wins and losses, then how is this any different than going to a major league game? It's not.


----------



## TexasBoi

XCRunner said:


> No... I'm pretty sure the corwd goes and pays good money to see great games.


We do, but we also want to see if our team wins or loses not if they somehow ties Thats fucking boring. At the end of the day, everybody would walk out of the stadium confused and dejected because they wanted to see there team win or lose. That's what the crowd pays to see. To see the athletes and to see there team win. Not tie. Ties are just as bad if not worse than losses. America does not like it and hopefully, they never will.


----------



## You are to blame

Great for hoston, maybe they will become toronto's rival when we join the lead in 2007


----------



## Crocodine

Real = Royal; FC = Football Club

Do the US football teams play in the Libertadores Cup?


----------



## bubomb

XCRunner said:


> I totally agree with you on this one. It may be hard to comprehend why this is if you're not from America (you are Scottish, correct?), but for some reason sports fans in the U.S. don't like ties. Steve Rushin just wrote an article about this in Sports Illustrated, about how the tie has dissapeared from North American sports.
> 
> In 1932 the Chicago Bears tied six games. There has only been one tie in the last six NFL seasons. The NHL just got rid of the tie. He goes on to mention how the tie is cherished is soccer (or football, whatever the hell one wants to call it). And how he thinks it should have a place in U.S. sports. I agree with him, but sadly, I think most here would disagree. They would maybe be okay with a tie if it had some goals, but not a 0-0 tie.
> 
> Soccer has a reputation here of being "boring" because there isn't enough scoring. I don't see how it's that much different from American Football. A 3-2 game is the same as 21-14 game. And even if there is less scoring (which there is). what's wrong with that? Americans don't like it for some reason, and I don't know why. Basketball is just the opposite. Scoring is so routine, it happens at about every other posession. This sometimes bores me, so I don't see why people don't have a problem with this but they have a problem with soccer. I'm not slaming basketball here, i like it as much as soccer.
> 
> So that's why a 0-0 draw in the final is a bad advertisement for MLS.


Interesting. Thanks for that. Yes, the draw is an integral part of football. I just can't imagine football without draws. It makes the league more interesting, knowing that each team can get 3 different amounts of points each week.

I wonder why it's only America that hates the draw? It's a strange one. If one country hates it, you would think some others would. I suspect Canada probably hates it as well, as they have a similar culture to America.


----------



## bubomb

TexasBoi said:


> We do, but we also want to see if our team wins or loses not if they somehow ties Thats fucking boring. At the end of the day, everybody would walk out of the stadium confused and dejected because they wanted to see there team win or lose. That's what the crowd pays to see. To see the athletes and to see there team win. Not tie. Ties are just as bad if not worse than losses. America does not like it and hopefully, they never will.



Rangers drew away to Porto in the Champions League. It was a great result for Rangers. I was at the game, it was amazing. The Rangers fans went nuts. That draw was one of the main reasons we qualified for the next stage.


----------



## drmadham

northern italian said:


> Fux soccer, sorry but I hate it
> 
> Anyway there are lot of sports much more exciting and nice than soccer ... one of these is for sure basketball.


Youre italian and still say that? You should be locked up and silenced


----------



## bubomb

BaylorGuy314 said:


> First of all, BuBomb, I don't think you understand the college game very well.
> 
> Most college stadiums are 50+ years old and hold lots of tradition. Many have existed since the 1920s, when the average attendnace was a couple of hundred spectators. No one wants to tear these old stadiums down and build state of the art, NFL-like stadiums. It costs a lot of money and you have to do it over and over again, something that most universities simply cannot afford. The average fan doesn't want to throw away the history and tradition for a chairback, armrests, air conditioning, a roof, or nice concessions.
> 
> The reason there aren't roofs on most college stadiums is because it's stupid. Most colleges play 5-6 home games a year. The chances of absolutely horrid weather on one of those days is minimal, especially when you consider that Fall is not the rainy season in the US. If it does rain during a game, it usually only happens on one game per year.
> 
> Teams in the northeast (the rainiest part of the US) have roofs, but they are the only ones that experience that much rainfall.
> 
> Sounds like you are expected collegiate stadiums to be NFL quality. If you need seatbacks, luxury concessions, a roof, A/C, and WANT to be indoor before a game, then you aren't cut out to be a college football fan.



Basically you have summed up what I said. I did not say the I expected better, I was just giving my opinion on the quality of the stadiums. Big and basic (with a few exceptions). You have agreed with me that they are old and basic. I know why they are big and basic, but the reasons don't change the fact that they are big and basic. 

At no point did I say 'these stadiums should be much better quality'. In fact, I said any stadium holding 100000, for a university, is impressive.

You have also agreed with me on roofs. I said only grounds with substantial rainfall should have roofs, and you confirmed this is the case in the Northeast.

What's the problem here? They are big basic stadiums. Fine.


----------



## bubomb

nomarandlee said:


> Let us non-UK folk in on what the Taylor reports were if you don't mind? I am pretty intrigued.



The Taylor Report was brought in because Liverpool fans are drunken idiots. They killed 39 Italians and Belgians in Heysel, and 96 of their own fans at Hillsborough. Hilariously, Liverpool fans to this day class themselves as 'the victims'. It is part of the 'blame everybody else' culture that you find in Liverpool. Liverpool and it's people are never to blame for anything, it's always somebody else. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heysel_Stadium_disaster

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Report


We could of had modern stadiums with standing, like those in Germany, but Liverpool ruined it for everybody.


----------



## TexasBoi

bubomb said:


> Rangers drew away to Porto in the Champions League. It was a great result for Rangers. I was at the game, it was amazing. The Rangers fans went nuts. That draw was one of the main reasons we qualified for the next stage.


Well that is how it is over there. Over here, we despise/hate/loath/detest ties. No matter how exciting they are. There better be an outcome at the end of the game in which your team either wins or loses. If it doesn't, Americans will lose interest and the sport/league will becoming nearly irrelevant(NHL).

How could anybody like a tie. 
Bob "Did your team win"
Mike "No"
Bob "Did your team lose"
Mike "No"
Bob "What happended then?"
Mike "It ended in a tie, Nobody won"
Bob "WTF?"
that's the type of convo you would get here in the US.


----------



## bubomb

TexasBoi said:


> Well that is how it is over there. Over here, we despise/hate/loath/detest ties. No matter how exciting they are. There better be an outcome at the end of the game in which your team either wins or loses. If it doesn't, Americans will lose interest and the sport/league will becoming nearly irrelevant(NHL).
> 
> How could anybody like a tie.
> Bob "Did your team win"
> Mike "No"
> Bob "Did your team lose"
> Mike "No"
> Bob "What happended then?"
> Mike "It ended in a tie, Nobody won"
> Bob "WTF?"
> that's the type of convo you would get here in the US.


Yes, but that sounds like a conversation between 2 morons.


Here's the UK version -

David - "How did Rangers do last night?"
Stuart - "We drew 1-1"
David - "Great result"
Stuart - "Yeah, I thought Porto would hump us"
David - "especially with Rangers away from home"
Stuart - "That's us almost qualified"
David - "Yup, if Porto draw or lose their next game you are through"
Stuart - "I know, I can't wait for the next round of games"
David - "Ok, I better get home, see you tomorrow"
Stuart - "Ok, bye"


----------



## CF

2005 said:


> No surprise FOOTBALL (soccer) is without a shadow of a doubt the best sport in the world i.e. the most popular.


Good luck finding an American or Canadian that will agree with you there.

Hockey and Football(american)>Soccer.


----------



## CF

TexasBoi said:


> Well that is how it is over there. Over here, we despise/hate/loath/detest ties. No matter how exciting they are. There better be an outcome at the end of the game in which your team either wins or loses. If it doesn't, Americans will lose interest and the sport/league will becoming nearly irrelevant(NHL).
> 
> How could anybody like a tie.
> Bob "Did your team win"
> Mike "No"
> Bob "Did your team lose"
> Mike "No"
> Bob "What happended then?"
> Mike "It ended in a tie, Nobody won"
> Bob "WTF?"
> that's the type of convo you would get here in the US.


There are no longer ties in the NHL.


----------



## bubomb

CF said:


> Good luck finding an American or Canadian that will agree with you there.
> 
> Hockey and Football(american)>Soccer.



The key word was 'world'

America and Canada are not the 'world'

In Pakistan, for example, they will all say cricket is the best sport in the world. But overall, by far the most popular sport in the world is football (soccer).

I always find it strange that a great country such as the USA has such rubbish sports.


----------



## TexasBoi

CF said:


> There are no longer ties in the NHL.


I know that. 


> Yes, but that sounds like a conversation between 2 morons.


Irrelevant. I can say the same about your convo but I honestly could care less. The point is that most Americans cannot stand Ties as a result to end a game. If ties are natural, it will be not followed in this country, sorry.

For instance, i'm a Dallas Cowboys fan. My team lost 35-7 to our most hated rival yesterday. I was mad that we LOST. Washington ******* fans were happy that they WON. How do you think we both would feel if the game ended in a 14-14 tie. Not one person from each fanbase( which are huge fanbases btw) would be happy.In fact, they would be angry moreso than happy.


----------



## bubomb

TexasBoi said:


> I know that.
> 
> Irrelevant. I can say the same about your convo but I honestly could care less. The point is that most Americans cannot stand Ties as a result to end a game. If ties are natural, it will be not followed in this country, sorry.



You couldn't say the same about my conversation, as my conversation didn't sound like a conversation between 2 morons.


----------



## TexasBoi

bubomb said:


> You couldn't say the same about my conversation, as my conversation didn't sound like a conversation between 2 morons.


Oh who gives a fucking shit. That was not the point I was trying to make with my post.


----------



## bubomb

TexasBoi said:


> I know that.
> 
> Irrelevant. I can say the same about your convo but I honestly could care less. The point is that most Americans cannot stand Ties as a result to end a game. If ties are natural, it will be not followed in this country, sorry.
> 
> For instance, i'm a Dallas Cowboys fan. My team lost 35-7 to our most hated rival yesterday. I was mad that we LOST. Washington ******* fans were happy that they WON. How do you think we both would feel if the game ended in a 14-14 tie. Not one person from each fanbase( which are huge fanbases btw) would be happy.In fact, they would be angry moreso than happy.



Then why are football fans delighted when their team draws a game they were expected to lose?

Look at my Rangers/Porto example. We were delighted with an away draw. It meant we ended above Porto in the table.


----------



## TexasBoi

Because ties are accepted over there. But they simply are not over here. We like to have a 50/50 result to an end of a game. 50 percent chance of winning or 50 percent chance of losing. 

BTW, football fans over here are not delighted whatsoever.


----------



## bubomb

TexasBoi said:


> Because ties are accepted over there. But they simply are not over here. We like to have a 50/50 result to an end of a game. 50 percent chance of winning or 50 percent chance of losing.
> 
> BTW, football fans over here are not delighted whatsoever.


Football isn't like that. Sometimes you have a 90% chance of losing if you are at the bottom of the table and are playing a top team. So to get a point from a draw is a great result, as you had a 90% of getting nothing at all. 

Very few games are 50/50. The home team is the favourite most the time.

I think Americans are more shallow and can only understand win or lose. The don't have the depth to analyse if a draw was a good,bad or average result. The need an obvious answer - win or lose.


----------



## bubomb

JimB said:


> Please don't associate all of us with bubomb.
> 
> He's just a troll - clearly as anti American as he is anti English - who acts as a (bu)bomb on any thread in which he partakes.
> 
> He likes to lecture people about how to behave on a message board. Irony clearly isn't his strong point!


Stop following me, you troll (whatever that is?)


----------



## Carter

It is strange that Americans find draws hard to accept, for example an Indy 500 race is so boring imho. I prefer a draw over an indy 500 race any time. Nevertheless it's up to the Americans to decide what to like and what to dislike. 
I've been to a Yankees game and I was bored out of my mind. On the other hand, Americans give everything to win, that's why they are so damn good in almost everything. It's a mentality thing, no American will ever be happy with the second place. Europeans, when they come in second, tend to say: 'I gave it my best, so I am happy being second.' That's something an American will never do, I respect that.


----------



## XCRunner

bubomb said:


> The key word was 'world'
> 
> America and Canada are not the 'world'
> 
> In Pakistan, for example, they will all say cricket is the best sport in the world. But overall, by far the most popular sport in the world is football (soccer).
> 
> I always find it strange that a great country such as the USA has such rubbish sports.


I agree with you that the US and Canada are not the world and that football is by far the most popular sport in the world. But please don't bash our sports. You obviously don't like it when Americans bash football, so don't do the same thing back if you don't like it. I like American football and basketball as much as football (and track & field too, but that's another story). I don't think there is such thing as a rubbish sport as long as you have to work hard to be good at it.


----------



## 40Acres

your personal opinions are truth?


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## bubomb

40Acres said:


> your personal opinions are truth?



These are facts, not opinions.


----------



## luv2bebrown

bubomb i understand what your saying, but this is bascially it:

its so much nicer to enjoy these sports in nice sunny weather than indoors. the problem is since these are Universities and not commercial teams, they dont have the money to build retractable roofs. my university doesnt even have its own stadium anymore, and they are finding it difficult to fund even a small open-air stadium. additionally, college football seasons for the most part end before the bad weather kicks in. overall tho, because there isnt enough money for retractable roofs, people would rather sacrfiice a couple of games with bad weather for the rest of the season in good outdoor weather.

if each college had $500 million lying around to spend on retractable roofs tho, im sure those retractable roofed stadiums would be built, but we are poor college kids... we cant afford new socks!


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## rantanamo

are we back to the rubbish sports thing again. How cyclical


----------



## Iain1974

The Taylor Report 

Controversial at the time. Banished the hugely popular terraces from football grounds among other things. The linked site is quite interesting and very in-depth.

....Despite suggestions in some national newspapers, notably The Sun, that drunken Liverpool hooligan fans were behind the events at Hillsborough, the official inquiry concluded that police "operational errors" (HMSO, 1990, p.25) were the main cause of the disaster........


----------



## Crocodine

Stop flaming, lads.

Again: Do the USA football teams play in the Libertadores Cup?


----------



## NovaWolverine

Bubomb's message is not fact, plain and simple. We can just say it's a cultural thing, how bout we leave it at that and not insult eachother in the process.


----------



## BaylorGuy314

This thread has become very humerous in the last 24 hours or so.

One of the biggest reasons for the US to eliminate ties was the way college football was structured. 

For example:

Team A is 10-1-0
and
Team B is 9-1-1. 

However, Team B beat Team A earlier in the year. Who do you take in the postseason?

Now, being used to the scoring system, you would say "Well, you have to take Team A because they have 30 points and Team B only has 24." But that doesn't make much sense if Team B beat Team A already.

You see how this got confusing? 

Now assume that there are no draws.

Team A is still 10-1, but now, Team B is either 9-2 or 10-1. 
Assuming that Team B is also 10-1, then they are the obvious pick for the postseason because they beat Team A and have the same amount of wins.

Now, if Team B is 9-2, you have to take Team A, because while Team B beat Team A, Team B likely got their second loss against someone that Team A beat.

You follow?

There was no penalty for a draw, which I think is fair (you should be penalized for a loss, not for a draw), so the American system was left with lots of "What If" scenarios. 

Thus, draws were done away with. It made the system more clean cut. Plus, it excited the fans much more. If you went into a game between two 11-0 squads, you knew, at the end of the day, that one would be ahead of the other in the standings.


----------



## Iain1974

Although Americans claim not to like ties as a result of thier competitive nature, I find it strange that in the otherwise admirable world of college football the teams are allowed to pick their own divisions to play it. And there's no relegation! While Sunderland fans might like the sound of that the rest of the planet would struggle to comprehend sports with such a bizarre 'structure'


----------



## BaylorGuy314

Iain1974 said:


> Although Americans claim not to like ties as a result of thier competitive nature, I find it strange that in the otherwise admirable world of college football the teams are allowed to pick their own divisions to play it. And there's no relegation! While Sunderland fans might like the sound of that the rest of the planet would struggle to comprehend sports with such a bizarre 'structure'


Divisions (or conferences) became organized by geography and TV contracts more than anything. Once you are in a conference, you sign a binding contract not to leave. Conferences do realign from time to time, but it doesn't happen often.

Because conferences are primarily formed by TV contacts which like to put teams of relatively equal competitivness and fan base together, there are several stronger conferences (six, actually) that are deemed "BCS conferences" and they get more spots in the postseason than other conferences. That doesn't mean that a team from a non-BCS conferences isn't as good as a team from a BCS conference, it just means the conference, on average, is weaker.

It sounds very confusing, but makes sense if you follow the sport.


----------



## nomarandlee

Theres no relegation? The NCAA oversees all college sports (sometimes derided for having too heavy of a hand). They can put teams on probation, set up rules for scholarships, and I believe approve of reject realignment of conferances and witch teams move into what divisions (Div 1, 2, and 3). It is hardly mass chaos.


----------



## bubomb

luv2bebrown said:


> bubomb i understand what your saying, but this is bascially it:
> 
> its so much nicer to enjoy these sports in nice sunny weather than indoors. the problem is since these are Universities and not commercial teams, they dont have the money to build retractable roofs. my university doesnt even have its own stadium anymore, and they are finding it difficult to fund even a small open-air stadium. additionally, college football seasons for the most part end before the bad weather kicks in. overall tho, because there isnt enough money for retractable roofs, people would rather sacrfiice a couple of games with bad weather for the rest of the season in good outdoor weather.
> 
> if each college had $500 million lying around to spend on retractable roofs tho, im sure those retractable roofed stadiums would be built, but we are poor college kids... we cant afford new socks!



I totally agree. As I said, I was just giving my opinions on the the quality of the stadiums, not the reason behind the quality of the stadiums. 

If a 100000 big basic stadium was built and owned by Microsoft, or the exact same stadium was built and owned by some poor guy who lives in a hut in a rundown town, the quality of the stadium would be exactly the same in each case, regardless of who had the most money or any other reasons. My opinions were based solely on the stadium, not any other reasons. When you take into account that these stadiums are owned by universities, then yes, that makes them much more impressive. But on their own, without taking anything else into account, they are big and basic.


----------



## edsg25

DetroitBosnian said:


> I would like to see Michigan Stadium top 150,000. That would be cool.


one has to wonder how much bigger Michigan Stadium would get before condsidering an upper deck. Can you imagine how far away the last row of the Big House would be if it continued as one deck for 150,000 seats?


----------



## BaylorGuy314

The NCAA regulates college football very closely, most of the time TOO closely. Perhaps you are thinking of intramural sports?


----------



## edsg25

I'm not sure that the 100,000+ stadiums really serve the viewing public. All of these huge structures are built on campuses of flagship state universities (i.e. Michigan,Ohio St, Penn St, Tenn, LSU, etc.)

If there is that much interest in college football to have these 100,000+ stadiums, would the sport be better served if stadiums didn't grow to that immense size and the non-BCS conferences were able to upgrade their stadiums and their conferences rise to a more major status?

With such a large percentage of Americans going to and graduating from college, the old state flagships don't dominate t heir states the way they used to. Most grads have more interest in their alma mater than their state's flaship.

Let me use the state of Michigan as an example. Would the sport in the Big Ten be more enjoyable to watch if Michigan Stadium stopped it growth and the growth Spartan Stadium grew, so the gap between the two was miniscule?

Or taking it futher, would the state be better off if its three MAC schools (WMU, CMU, EMU) were able to generate interest in 50,000 seat stadiums (that interest is not there now), while the two B10 schools, U-M and MSU, froze stadium size?

My main point here: if there is itnerest in 100,000+ stadiums, wouldn't it be better to see that interest spread to other majors in state (as in U-M to MSU) or from the major conferences to the mid majors (i.e. U-M and MSU to EMU, CMU, WMU)????


----------



## moxwax

BaylorGuy314 said:


> The NCAA regulates college football very closely, most of the time TOO closely. Perhaps you are thinking of intramural sports?


Perhaps he is, or perhaps he really doesn't know anything about American College Football and should stop talking about it.

Look guys, there's no point in arguing about it. Americans will always prefer American Football/gridiron, and Europeans will always prefer European Football/soccer. Get over it. The MLS is mildly successful, and so is NFL Europe. Those establishments are there for people who like those sports. If you don't like them, don't watch them, and don't complain. Nobody's forcing you to like it. Both sports have their own detailed history, and both have established rules. So what.


----------



## bubomb

moxwax said:


> Perhaps he is, or perhaps he really doesn't know anything about American College Football and should stop talking about it.
> 
> Look guys, there's no point in arguing about it. Americans will always prefer American Football/gridiron, and Europeans will always prefer European Football/soccer. Get over it. The MLS is mildly successful, and so is NFL Europe. Those establishments are there for people who like those sports. If you don't like them, don't watch them, and don't complain. Nobody's forcing you to like it. Both sports have their own detailed history, and both have established rules. So what.



I agree, but football is much better.


----------



## bubomb

needs a roof


----------



## Scba

bubomb said:


> needs a roof


Whether you're joking again or not, IT ISN'T FUNNY ANYMORE. Go home.


----------



## BobDaBuilder

^^^^^^^^

No rain in Washington?


----------



## NavyBlue

Scba said:


> Whether you're joking again or not, IT ISN'T FUNNY ANYMORE. Go home.


I believe he is joking and he beat me to it...damn lol

Personally I prefer a roof but I do respect the American sports culture and their love of open air stadiums. Roof or no roof this place is huge and very impressive and it's right up there with Invesco Field as one of my favorite US stadiums.


----------



## rantanamo

It might be the best as far as amenities go. Don't underestimate that. Very expensive stadium that was ahead of its time.


----------



## Perth4life

HOLY SHIT !
thats the biggest stadium carpark i have ever seen ! OMG its huge!
thats not a good thing either lol.


----------



## 40Acres

Perth4life said:


> HOLY SHIT !
> thats the biggest stadium carpark i have ever seen ! OMG its huge!
> thats not a good thing either lol.



uh, we like to tailgate before football games in America. If you havent been to one of these parties, then you just havent lived. It requires having a large area where RVs and other vehicles can park. 

Its annoying trying to educate the masses about american culture. just ignore us, we have lots of fun without the rest of the world trying to know us.


----------



## DrJoe

I've never really been a fan of this one. When was it opened anyway???


----------



## HoldenV8

> thats the biggest stadium carpark i have ever seen ! OMG its huge!


Try looking at the carpark size for Giants Stadium and see which is bigger lol


----------



## bubomb

40Acres said:


> uh, we like to tailgate before football games in America. If you havent been to one of these parties, then you just havent lived. It requires having a large area where RVs and other vehicles can park.
> 
> Its annoying trying to educate the masses about american culture. just ignore us, we have lots of fun without the rest of the world trying to know us.


I've been to one. It was full of thousands of fat guys stuffing their faces with hamburgers and shouting 'YEEAAAHHHH.....LETS KICK SOME ASSSSS'

I wasn't impressed. My last dump was culturally more sophisticated than one of these parties.

Anybody with an IQ higher than a cabbage will feel uncomfortable at one of these events.


----------



## Morten M

40Acres said:


> uh, we like to tailgate before football games in America. If you havent been to one of these parties, then you just havent lived. It requires having a large area where RVs and other vehicles can park.
> 
> Its annoying trying to educate the masses about american culture. just ignore us, we have lots of fun without the rest of the world trying to know us.


A tailgate party must be boring for about 1 out of 4, because they have to drive the car home and can't drink... :cheers:


----------



## Basel_CH

> Best Stadium in the World!!!


Without a roof of course best stadium of the world, lol hno: 

Its easy to build up a stadium with this dimensions without a roof, cheap...


----------



## rantanamo

easy to build a mediocre stadium and slap a roof on it. Don't understand why you guys think crappy stadiums are built in the US. Especially in the NFL. Look at the world list for most valuable clubs/franchises. Its dominated by NFL clubs. Do you think they build cheap stadiums? No. Different in principle, purpose and design? Yes.


----------



## Köbtke

Although the design is rather generic in apperance, the stadium never fails to impress me, when I see pictures. It just looks huge. Not a pretty one, but an impressive one.

By the way, it's full every time the Redskins play, isn't it? And if I remember correctly, they're planning to expand?


----------



## bubomb

It's definitely an impressive stadium, but I personally (just my opinion) think stadiums without roofs look unfinished and too basic. With a roof it would of been a 10/10, but still a very good 8/10 without a roof. Again, this in just my personal opinion, so please don't "open up a can of WHOOP ASS" if you disagree.


----------



## Iain1974

rantanamo said:


> easy to build a mediocre stadium and slap a roof on it. Don't understand why you guys think crappy stadiums are built in the US. Especially in the NFL. Look at the world list for most valuable clubs/franchises. Its dominated by NFL clubs. Do you think they build cheap stadiums? No. Different in principle, purpose and design? Yes.


I thought the cities paid for these things?


----------



## rantanamo

Some do, some don't. Its up to the city and owners to agree. When cities pay for a portion, they usually get certain revenue and rental rights to the stadium like charging rent to the occupying team or being in charge of the revenues from other events. The "woe is me" from cities when they pay for 40-50% of these things is simply a political battle cry. When a venue is built in a manner in which it can produce huge taxes and revenue, then cities make out like gang busters. The AAC in Dallas is an example of a city paying for less than half of a venue, yet making out like champs in the surrounding property taxes and revenues. They even got an eyesore and contaminated piece of land cleaned up. One of the best investments Dallas has ever made as a city.


----------



## bubomb

It's a great stadium, but I think the Reliant in Houston is slightly better. I think the one in Houston is only 70000 but it looks far bigger than that.


----------



## BobDaBuilder

Giants Stadium is pretty good also, although they need to dig up that guy buried on the 10 yard line. The bump is a little unsightly. But overall the Septics have loads of great stadiums. Any wonder the soccer world cup when they staged it there was the best run and the most profitable.


----------



## bubomb

Why are Americans septics? I make jokes about fat Americans but it's just a joke. I love America and want to live there one day as parts of America are the best places in the world. 'Septics' sounds like you are being serious!!

The Giants stadium is something like 40 years old!!! It was way ahead of it's time when built. It looks about 15 years old, not 40.


----------



## MoreOrLess

I agree that Fedex field doesnt really look that much larger than many other NFL stadiums. Reliants roof helps I spose but generally I find stadiums with fewer tiers or with the seating area divided less equally between tiers tend to look larger.


----------



## bubomb

I'm suprised most American clubs can't afford roofs!! You would think they were richer and could easily afford one! I guess not!!


----------



## Zorba

bubomb said:


> I saw pics of football/soccer being played at the Reliant, it looked amazing, probably the best stadium in the world for football/soccer. FedEx field would also be great for football/soccer, but I don't think it has ever been played there.


Soccer has been played at FedEx Field on multiple occassions. The last being last summer when D.C. United of the MLS (US Soccer league) played a friendly game against Chelsea. Chelsea won 2-1.


----------



## Zorba

Here are some of my photos from FedEx Field in Landover, Maryland. The photos were taken at the recent Washington Redskins 35-7 domination of the Dallas Cowgirls.

The stadium seats just over 90,000 people.


----------



## Audiomuse

bubomb said:


> Why are Americans septics? I make jokes about fat Americans but it's just a joke. I love America and want to live there one day as parts of America are the best places in the world. 'Septics' sounds like you are being serious!!
> 
> The Giants stadium is something like 40 years old!!! It was way ahead of it's time when built. It looks about 15 years old, not 40.


People usually take pride in there country. I've seen British people getting upset of a light joke. Although personally I dont care what people think. I go along with it and laugh along. The truth is that you are right. There are more fat people in america than other countries. But there are some of the best looking people in the world here too.


----------



## svs

bubomb said:


> I'm suprised most American clubs can't afford roofs!! You would think they were richer and could easily afford one! I guess not!!


The weather in Berkeley is rather mild and the stadium doesn't need a roof! Plus this is for American college football not European soccer.


----------



## rantanamo

The joke isn't even funny considering you're talking about a college in California.


----------



## rantanamo

ahhh, yes, basketball season.


----------



## bubomb

rantanamo said:


> The joke isn't even funny considering you're talking about a college in California.


No, that's what makes it even funnier!!


----------



## bubomb

Zorba said:


> Soccer has been played at FedEx Field on multiple occassions. The last being last summer when D.C. United of the MLS (US Soccer league) played a friendly game against Chelsea. Chelsea won 2-1.



Good stuff. I would love to see some pics? as football in this stadium would look great!!


----------



## bubomb

macon4ever said:


> People usually take pride in there country. I've seen British people getting upset of a light joke. Although personally I dont care what people think. I go along with it and laugh along. The truth is that you are right. There are more fat people in america than other countries. But there are some of the best looking people in the world here too.



I know, some of the girls in LA were fantastic!!!!


----------



## johnz88

I think that many of you think its the best becasue it can fit 91 665, but i don't think that is a neccesity for a stadium. There are better stadiums such as Reliant Stadium, IMO that have less cap. Yet having a large cap. can also be good which is why the new Wembly stadium in London is better then FedEX field. It fits 90 000 and has a roof and has more leg room and area for each person than any other stadium.


----------



## bubomb

johnz88 said:


> I think that many of you think its the best becasue it can fit 91 665, but i don't think that is a neccesity for a stadium. There are better stadiums such as Reliant Stadium, IMO that have less cap. Yet having a large cap. can also be good which is why the new Wembly stadium in London is better then FedEX field. It fits 90 000 and has a roof and has more leg room and area for each person than any other stadium.



Too much leg room/area is a bad thing. You want the stadium to still have a compact feel for good atmosphere. Personally I love standing terraces as these are amazing for atmosphere and so for me the new German stadiums are the best in the world. Imagine being the goalkeeper in this pic!!! -


----------



## 40Acres

great prairie said:


> :|
> 
> 
> If you haven't heard of Mel Kiper don't even bother responding.


uh, no, i dont know who mel kiper is :|

gimme a break. i've been schooling you for 8 pages now and you dont think i know who some helmet-headed draft dork, who's only famous (and accurate) for calling Trev Alberts out, is?

the point being is that my sources are credible while yours are from consistently WRONG anyalysts, not to mention a subscriber-based college recruiting website, and some myspace accounts, e.g, "Draft Blitz", "Draft Insiders", et al.

Come on. One of those similar websites talks about VY being a 3rd or 4th round talent. And you've based your entire arguement about how RB is better than VY on these guys. I thought you would have come up with some better criteria by now ... its been weeks.

I guess i'm just right.




> why is your link any more valid then these...


Thats not even the point. You challenged me to find anyone who thought VY was a better prospect than RB (other than texas fans -- your exact wording), and i went out and found you multiple. Now you're backpeddling and trying to derail the discussion and i find it hilarious.


----------



## Scba

All traces of funny ended several thread ago.

I think it looks great, sort of a village around it, too.


----------



## 40Acres

great prairie said:


> :|
> Even then you haven't my whole argument has been they are both great players, no one will really know who is the better player until they have couple of NFL seasons under their belts. Reggie and Vince are the top 2 prospects by far, if you don't believe that you're godamn moron. I think Vince is the 2nd best which is perfectably acceptable to everyone but some Texas fans and I think Reggie is the #1, you think he is the next Rocket Ismail who played wide receiver???? I think it is fine to think Vince is the best but not at the cost of bashing Reggie, which is all you've done. There are definitely good arguments for both of them, I just think Reggie is better and I am not changing that so get over it.
> 
> 
> answer this ^^


I'm going to answer your ridiculous statement even though you havent bothered to approach mine (I wouldnt either if i was genuinely shut down like i've done to you).

So, i THINK these are your questions:



> Even then you haven't my whole argument has been they are both great players,* no one will really know who is the better player until they have couple of NFL seasons under their belts.*


no, you dickslap. that is not what the arguement is about. I know tech students arent known for their interpretive abilities, but the entire thread is about NFL *potential*, thus the constant use of the word "prospect", of which VY is the better of the two.




> Reggie and Vince are the top 2 prospects by far, if you don't believe that you're godamn moron.


Beleive what i say or you're a poopy-head. Sounds like Gestapo-based tactics of an aggie. Whoop!

VY and RB may very well be the top 2 prospects, as you say, but thats not really the arguement now, is it?




> I think Vince is the 2nd best which is perfectably acceptable to everyone but some Texas fans and I think Reggie is the #1, you think he is the next Rocket Ismail who played wide receiver????


Rocket was an all-porpose back, much, much like RB. Rocket returned kicks and played the slot ... much like reggie did. Rocket was compared to gale sayers in the 1991 Drafte Edition of Pro Football Weekly. here is the exact quote:

"Perhaps the most explosive open-field player since Gale Sayers. He's a time bomb waiting to explode. He has dynamite ability and competes like crazy. Dynamic impact player. (Blank) is the one super football player in the draft.

And of course, we've all heard the famous comparisons of RB to Sayers and, erm, Barry Sanders, and of course, not individually, but both of them combined :|

Why doesnt everyone take a deep breath and wait before comparing RB to TWO hall-of-fame standouts.



> I think it is fine to think Vince is the best but not at the cost of bashing Reggie, which is all you've done.


first of all, is Reggie your crush of the moment, or what? Are you related to him. I can bash him all i want. What's it to you?

Secondly, i havent even approached bashing him. I've made a statistical, quantitative and qualitative argument about WHY VY was a better prospect than Bush. Yes, it could come off as bashing because really, there is no comparison and RB's stats are so deceiving. Would it be bashing if i compared the intellectual aptitude of Ben Franklin and PAris Hilton? No, reality is reality, and if the shoe fits, and all that stuff ...

For example, Reggie Bush ran for only 20 carries TWICE this year. One was against Oregon and the other against Fresno State. Neither was particularly impressive vs. the run, especially FSU, which ended their season on a 4 game skid. Truthfully, that is not impressive, and the FSU game is considered the benchmark of RB's career. MEanwhile, VY had 3 benchmark games this year, Ohio State in Columbus, Oklahoma State in Stillwater, and USC in Los Angeles. Three games, and nearly 1300 yards of total offense and 10 touchdowns. Now THATS impressive against NFL quality prospects. Hell, take out Okie State, and we're still talking about 800 total yards and 6 touchdowns, all on hostile turf.



> There are definitely good arguments for both of them, I just think Reggie is better and I am not changing that so get over it.


I'm not really crying about it, like you are. I'm pretty confident in my arguement and my ability to present it and effectively bring to light why i think the way i think. On the other hand, i've yet to hear a strong case for your boy and why you think the way you do (other than some self annointed draft guru told you so). 

Game.
Set.
Match.


----------



## Fillet Tower

Ice hockey teams in London ceased to be because of lack of decent ice sports facilities. Yet there, in North America, they are building arenas like that one just for uni teams!! I think the place looks great and pretty expensive inside and out. Love the red brick exterior too, class.


----------



## MoreOrLess

Sadly though Wembley doesnt have the option of standing room plus I wouldnt call the westfalenstadion "new".

One of the biggest looking in comparason to its actual size for me is the main stand at Old Trafford, the tiers getting progressively smaller has a kind of "jin mao" perspective fooling effect IMHO.


----------



## bubomb

MoreOrLess said:


> Sadly though Wembley doesnt have the option of standing room plus I wouldnt call the westfalenstadion "new".
> 
> One of the biggest looking in comparason to its actual size for me is the main stand at Old Trafford, the tiers getting progressively smaller has a kind of "jin mao" perspective fooling effect IMHO.


Westfalenstadion (SIGNAL IDUNA PARK to be precise) is quite a new stadium. All 4 stands and corners have been rebuilt and the stadium has just had new seats put in. More upgrades are being done for the World Cup. The stadium has amazing facilities. It truly is breathtaking to watch a game there!!


http://home.arcor.de/znotti/Pics/stadionumbau05/02/stadionumbau05.htm

http://www.stadion-live.de/ausbau/a...dion_20050613/umbau_08_fifa_2006_dortmund.htm

http://www.stadion-live.de/ausbau/a...m_2006/20050531/umbau1_fifa_2006_dortmund.htm

http://www.stadion-live.de/ausbau/a..._2006/20050615/umbau10_fifa_2006_dortmund.htm

http://www.stadion-live.de/ausbau/a...21/westfalenstadion_13_fifa_2006_dortmund.htm

http://www.stadion-live.de/ausbau/a...21/westfalenstadion_14_fifa_2006_dortmund.htm

http://www.stadion-live.de/ausbau/ausbau_4_fifa_wm_2006/umbau2_fifa_2006_dortmund.htm

http://www.stadion-live.de/ausbau/ausbau_4_fifa_wm_2006/umbau4_fifa_2006_dortmund.htm


----------



## rantanamo

^You mean the UC Berkely campus?


----------



## bubomb

asohn said:


> bubomb, you've pushed the line. While the roof jokes are far from funny, you are entitled to your opinion. But lately you have been engaging in pure bigotry, calling Americans fat on numerous occasions, among other insults. You are making the forums an enjoyable place, and I have reported you to the moderators.


I'm glad i'm making the forums an enjoyable place, but I don't think this is a reason to report me!! As you have no sense of humour and are starting to cry then I will not call Americans fat anymore. I don't like seeing grown men cry so I won't do it.


----------



## reluminate

^ The things you say are immature and annoying and are inhibiting intelligent conversations. All I ask of you (as many others have expressed as well) is to tone it down and stick to the topic of discussion, and to not engage in your nonsensical anti-American banter.


----------



## bubomb

asohn said:


> ^ The things you say are immature and annoying and are inhibiting intelligent conversations. All I ask of you (as many others have expressed as well) is to tone it down and stick to the topic of discussion, and to not engage in your nonsensical anti-American banter.



Christ!! I agreed to your demands!! What more do you want? BLOOD!!


----------



## reluminate

bubomb said:


> I'm glad i'm making the forums an enjoyable place, but I don't think this is a reason to report me!! As you have no sense of humour and are starting to cry then I will not call Americans fat anymore. I don't like seeing grown men cry so I won't do it.


Haha. Oops - I meant to write *un*enjoyable - I assume you knew what I meant there.


----------



## reluminate

^ For god's sake...


----------



## BobDaBuilder

In regards to the London hockey scene....

Went along and saw some hockey in London at the London Arena on the Isle of Dogs back in 2001. The London Knights were playing the Bracknell Bees saw another match with the Knights playing Belfast Bombers. The attendance for the second game had come down a long way from the Bees match. They folded the team after that season due to financial problems from memory. So the club must have been struggling. All the players were Canadians too, maybe a few Americans and Europeans thrown in.

Looked like a decent enough stadium to me. Although it was basically a shed and the seating was just scaffolding like you get at the circus. It did the job okay. Even the Robbie Williams video of him ice-dancing was shot in there. (For the Americans who have no idea who that guy is, he is Britain's answer to Ricky Martin...but British if you get my drift). When I went over to the UK I initially thought the guy was actually a soccer player. Turned out he was a pop singer. Apparently he wants to become a stand up comedian now.

Anyway what struck me about having hockey in the UK is that it generally is not cold enough for the rivers or lakes to freeze. So you are not going to have kids running out to learn how to play hockey like you would in places like Scandinavia or Russia. So the grass roots will never be there. They would be better off at basketball although Britons are generally a small sized people so they probably won't be terribly good at that either. But, who are they kidding? They are not particularly good at many sports.


----------



## great prairie

bubomb said:


> I can't stand this new arena!! why the hell has it got a roof??? Totally ruins it!!


you're kicking a dead horse....


----------



## bubomb

ok, enough is enough!!


----------



## great prairie

I think reggie is better and have presented my case we'll see who the Texans draft.

you are incredibly arrogant and will look very stupid on draft day.


----------



## bubomb

asohn said:


> Haha. Oops - I meant to write *un*enjoyable - I assume you knew what I meant there.


Yes, but ironically you were correct!!


----------



## Rainier Meadows

:sly:


----------



## rantanamo

Who gets drafted first simply doesn't determine the best player, but rather the best player for a given team. You could have a situation where the best 5 college players are QBs, and teams that have drafted QBs the last two years and have a QB like Leftwich or Culpepper get drafted 9th or 10th.


----------



## 40Acres

great prairie said:


> you are incredibly arrogant and will look very stupid on draft day.


you might be right, and for that, i apologize. seriously. my intention wasnt to come off as an arrogant prick, unfortunately, passion can bring out the worst in individuals. i respect your views, but respectfully, i disagree. sorry if i'm playing the asshole longhorn.

look. the texans may very well draft bush. but in my opinion, and my opinion solely, VY is the better candidate for reasons given.

wreck em and hook em, and all that good stuff.

you're a texan and i'm a texan and for me, thats good enough. we have better shite to do than argue amongst those of the Great State.


----------



## CharlieP

^^^ Look, it's a mod! They do exist in this forum!


----------



## Bigmac1212

Loranga said:


> Capacity?


According to the athletics site, the new hockey arena will seat 3,200 seats.


----------



## eddyk

BobDaBuilder said:


> But, who are they kidding? They are not particularly good at many sports.



:O

Australians are hardly better than us at Basket ball and Ice hockey.

Or football, or possibly cricket :crazy:


Anyhoo.


I see these 10,000 capacity+ areas just for US Unis, and I get jealous that they have such great facilities...while in the UK we only have about half a dozen or so with a capacity of over 10,000.


----------



## great prairie

you can't call yourself a Texan if you can't argue about football...


----------



## 612bv3

back to topic

I think it's really sad that Cal will be renovating their stadium while Stanford is building a new one. Memorial Stadium sits right on top of the Hayward Fault, it will be split in half if there's a big earthquake on that fault. :bash:


----------



## SkyLerm

Reliant stadium looks fantastic, a huge stadium, also Azteca is great but is quite old althought is the only one stadium in the world that has hosted 2 world cup finals (1970 and 1986).


----------



## XCRunner

Azteca is not the best in America, it's the best in the world imo.


----------



## matherto

XCRunner said:


> Azteca is not the best in America, it's the best in the world imo.


HOW?????? the only good things about it are the atmosphere and the size. It's ugly, old, has crappy faded seats which most of the southern Americas stadiums have, they're not very well maintained, and the only good stadiums in America are the ones in the USA, and maybe the Skydome


----------



## Larry

*ARGENTINA:*​
*Bombonera stadium:*
City: Buenos Aires 
Capacity: 65.000




















*River Plate stadium:*
City: Buenos Aires
Capacity: 80.000




















*Mar del Plata stadium:*
City: Mar del Plata
Capacity: 45.000











*Rosario Central stadium:*
City: Rosario
Capacity: 50.000




















*Velez Sarsfield stadium:* (old pic)
City: Buenos Aires
Capacity: 70.000











*Château Carreras stadium:*
City: Cordoba
Capacity: 45.000










*Malvinas Argentinas stadium:* (old pic)
City: Mendoza
Capacity: 40.000




















*Ciudad de Salta stadium:*
City: Salta
Capacity: 35.000











*Independiente de Avellaneda stadium:*
City: Avellaneda
Capacity: 45.000









under construction, done in 2006


*Racing Club de Avellaneda stadium:*
City: Avellaneda
Capacity: 75.000











*Estadio Unico:* (brazilian model and Martin Palermo's wife)
City: La Plata
Capacity:65.000




















*Ciudad de la Plata stadium:*
Cty: La Plata
Capacity:65.000

















(roof under construction)


*Orfeo Arena:*
City: Cordoba


----------



## hngcm

XCRunner said:


> Azteca is not the best in America, it's the best in the world imo.


It nees a little touch up to be the best in the world.


----------



## matherto

hngcm said:


> It nees a little touch up to be the best in the world.


you mispelt "massive" touch up


----------



## XCRunner

matherto said:


> HOW?????? the only good things about it are the atmosphere and the size. It's ugly, old, has crappy faded seats which most of the southern Americas stadiums have, they're not very well maintained, and the only good stadiums in America are the ones in the USA, and maybe the Skydome


Atmosphere is the most important aspect of a stadium, imo. Who cares if the seats are crappy and faded.
The other sadiums I put up there with it are:

San Siro
Westfalenstadion
Santiago Bernebeu
New Webley
Ashburton Grove


----------



## dewback

612bv3 said:


> back to topic
> 
> I think it's really sad that Cal will be renovating their stadium while Stanford is building a new one. Memorial Stadium sits right on top of the Hayward Fault, it will be split in half if there's a big earthquake on that fault. :bash:


That is quite true, I wish they could build a new stadium somewhere. I guess its cheaper to renovate old Memorial Stadium than to build one from a scratch. Besides, Stanford is building its own new stadium on top of the bulldozed old one as their main reason to build it is to solve their lack of attendence.


----------



## cmc

*Super Bowl XL (Ford Field)*










*Ford Field*
*Capacity- 65,000
City- Detroit, Michigan
Year Built- 2002*


----------



## jr07

Ehh Not the most asthetically pleasing, but it looks nice inside.


----------



## tritown

It seems to blend in with downtown pretty well.


----------



## Kai Tak

Yeah the roof could use some character, but overall it really is a beautiful facility.

Someone post pics of the main lobbies and skyboxes. The way they built an old warehouse into the side of the stadium is really unique, very creative! :cheers:


----------



## rantanamo

World's greatest indoor venue, IMHO, and one of the best sporting venues ever built.....Period.


----------



## illmatic774

Agreed. Too bad it doesnt have a team to play in it



By the way, i'm sure that the city will decorate the roof for SB purposes. Like with what they did with it for the ASG.


----------



## TexasBoi

illmatic774 said:


> Agreed. Too bad it doesnt have a team to play in it
> .


damnit...you beat me to it lol


----------



## BaronVonChickenpants

worlds greatest indoor venue?A sweeping statement
Reliant Staduim Houston
Millenium Staduim Cardiff
Telstra Staduim Melbourne
all 3 could make an argument for that title


----------



## BobDaBuilder

Like the widescreen video boards. 

What became of the Silverdome and Tiger Stadium? The Silverdome was a modern marvel a few years back. 

Supposedly this new stadium is built in the dodgy parts of Detroit where it is mainly poor negroes, crime and drug abuse. Is it safe to park your car whilst going to a match?


----------



## rantanamo

Yes, I'm making that statement. Those mentioned are retractables, but still feel like domes inside. That's the difference here. Perhaps the huge skylights eliminate that feeling, but Ford almost feels like you're outdoors. Its almost like the Safeco Field of the NFL. As an entire project, this place is amazing. If there are better venues in the world, they are few and far between. I think that's amazing for me( a dome and roof hater) to say that. I wish more non-baseball stadiums would pay that much attention to detail. Too bad it has had a bad team playing there since it opened.

The Lions left the Silverdome for downtown. I don't know why. Perhaps the lack of suites in the Silverdome. Perhaps its suburban location as well. The Tigers left Tiger Stadium for Comerica. I'm guessing the cost of renovation from lack of good upkeep did Tiger Stadium in. Don't know for sure, but Comerica is, like most of the new MLB parks, outstanding. The two venues sit next to each other and have helped revitalize that area of downtown Detroit.


----------



## andysimo123

How much are tickets for the Superbowl? Am not talking on the Black market I mean face value.


----------



## MoreOrLess

Doesnt the superbowl have some kind of minium capacity? I remember someone mentioning the new Cardinals Stadium needed the space to construct some temp seats and thats around the same size as Ford Field.


----------



## Loranga

Is it Field Turf? And has it hosted any soccer games?


----------



## 40Acres

BobDaBuilder said:


> Supposedly this new stadium is built in the dodgy parts of Detroit where it is mainly poor negroes, crime and drug abuse. Is it safe to park your car whilst going to a match?



holy smokes. if the internet was around in the 40s, this is what it would look like. 




> Is it Field Turf? And has it hosted any soccer games?


i beleive its Field Turf, and no, it has not hosted any international soccer games or friendlies. Its only a matter of time, though. the Silverdome hosted the first ever indoor WC match, and that was in detroit. 

Ford Field is absolutely majestic in terms of urban stadiums.


----------



## Kai Tak

Is it true they're going to demolish the Silverdome? That thing was awesome! It seated over 80,000!!!


----------



## Loranga

40Acres said:


> i beleive its Field Turf, and no, it has not hosted any international soccer games or friendlies. Its only a matter of time, though. the Silverdome hosted the first ever indoor WC match, and that was in detroit.
> 
> Ford Field is absolutely majestic in terms of urban stadiums.


Yeah, I remember the games in Silverdome, Sweden played two of their games in it, natural grass in hexagon shapes was inserted into the playing field! These were the days when artificial grass was on its way out of the sport world...

I also remember it was extremely hot inside, as the Silverdome ventilation system was dimensioned for the NFL football season (september-january as most of us here know) and not for soccer games in the end of june/beginning of july.


----------



## Loranga

Little bit ironic that this years SB is played in *Ford* Field, the year haven't started really well for Ford...


----------



## johnz88

rantanamo said:


> World's greatest indoor venue, IMHO, and one of the best sporting venues ever built.....Period.


I don't think so, it is not the best indoor venue. The outside looks alright but the roof is ugly and the interior looks unfinished and doesn't have that same feeling as when you see somthing like Reliant Stadium, then you say wow but not for this.


----------



## krodiger

Go Steelers!!!


----------



## rantanamo

MoreOrLess said:


> Doesnt the superbowl have some kind of minium capacity? I remember someone mentioning the new Cardinals Stadium needed the space to construct some temp seats and thats around the same size as Ford Field.


That's correct. I believe the minimum is 72,000. The issue came up with Tampa and Jacksonville's Superbowl, but wasn't much of an issue since both have areas like Arizona's new stadium that easily add seats. I've not seen any plans as to how this will be corrected. Perhaps Detroit recieved a waiver because of the promise to build it and host a Superbowl(which are unbelieveably lucrative for an area). Perhaps they will add a couple of rows on the bottoms of the sideline seating. Perhaps they will add a row between the two decks. Perhaps they will fill in the gap with temp seats. Perhaps all of the above. I imagine the extra few thousand could easily be worked out in these ways. This place is pretty flexible as we've seen with that huge basketball game a couple of years ago. I imagine we'll see when they start doing the reports on Superbowl preparations where they show the field being painted, etc. In this case, new endzones and field symbols being sewn in. 

Is this the first Superbowl on an artificial infill surface? I can't even remember the last one on an artificial surface. New England's win over St. Louis maybe?


----------



## dave8721

I wonder when they are going to drop the roman numeral thing? The numbers are starting to get a little high to refer to them as the number in a sequence since the first. Wouldn't Super Bowl 2006 make more sense? I guess it would get a little confusing since the regular season is played in 2005 and the playoffs and SB in 2006.


----------



## Sounder

*NFL from the air (stadiums and practice facilities)*

The NFL from the air: aerial views of NFL stadiums and practice facilities.

From Sportsforum.ws


Arizona Cardinals

Sun Devil Stadium - Tempe, AZ

Practice Facility - Tempe, AZ

Future Stadium - Glendale, AZ


Atlanta Falcons

Georgia Dome (local.live)

Georgia Dome (google)


Baltimore Ravens

M&T Bank Stadium (local.live)

M&T Bank Stadium (google)

Practice Facility - Owings Mills, MD (google)


Buffalo Bills

Ralph Wilson Stadium - Orchard Park, NY (local.live)

Ralph Wilson Stadium - Orchard Park, NY (google)

Practice Facility - Orchard Park, NY (local.live)

Practice Facility - Orchard Park, NY (google)


Carolina Panthers

Bank of America Stadium (local.live)

Bank of America Stadium (google)

Practice Facility - Charlotte, NC (local.live)

Practice Facility - Charlotte, NC (google)


Chicago Bears

Soldier Field (uc) (local.live)

Soldier Field (uc) (google)

Practice Facility - Lake Forest, IL (local.live)

Practice Facility - Lake Forest, IL (google)


Cincinnati Bengals

Paul Brown Stadium (local.live)

Paul Brown Stadium (google)

Practice Facility - Cleveland, OH (local.live)

Practice Facility - Cincinnati, OH (google)


Cleveland Browns

Cleveland Browns Stadium (local.live)

Cleveland Browns Stadium (google)

Practice Facility - Berea, OH (local.live)

Practice Facility - Berea, OH (google)


Dallas Cowboys

Texas Stadium - Irving, TX (local.live)

Texas Stadium - Irving, TX (google)

Practice Facility - Irving, TX (local.live)

Practice Facility - Irving, TX (google)


Denver Broncos

Mile High Stadium (local.live)

Mile High Stadium (google)

Practice Facility Englewood, CO (local.live)

Practice Facility - Englewood, CO (google)


Detroit Lions

Ford Field (local.live)

Ford Field (google)

Practice Facility - Allen Park, MI (local.live)

Practice Facility - Allen Park, MI (google)


Green Bay Packers

Lambeau Field (local.live)

Practice Facility - Green Bay, WI (local.live)


Houston Texans

Reliant Stadium (local.live)

Reliant Stadium (google)


Indianapolis Colts

RCA Dome (local.live)

RACA Dome (google)

Practice Facility - Indianapolis, IN (local.live)

Practice Facility - Indianapolis, IN (google)


Jacksonville Jaguars

Altell Stadium (local.live)

Altell Stadium (google)

Practice Facility - Jacksonville, FL(local.live)

Practice Facility - Jacksonville, FL (google)


Kansas City Chiefs

Arrowhead Stadium (local.live)

Arrowhead Stadium (google)

Practice Facility - Kansas City, MO (local.live)

Practice Facility - Kansas City, MO (google)


Miami Dolphins

Dolphins Stadium (local.live)

Dolphins Stadium (google)

Pracitce Facility - Davie, FL(local.live)

Practice Facility - Davie, FL (google)


Minnesota Vikings

Metrodome (google)

Practice Facility - Eden Prairie, MN (local.live)

Practice Facility - Eden Prairie, MN (google)


New England Patriots

Gillette Stadium - Foxboro, MA (local.live)

Foxboro Stadium and Gillette Stadium (uc) - Foxboro, MA (google)

Practice Facility Foxboro, MA (local.live)

Practice Facility - Foxboro, MA (google)


New Orleans Saints

Superdome

Practice Facility - Metairie, LA


New York Giants

Giants Stadium - East Rutherford, NJ (local.live)

Giants Stadium - East Rutherford, NJ (google)

Practice Facility - East Rutherford, NJ (local.live)

Practice Facility - East Rutherford, NJ (google)



New York Jets

Giants Stadium - East Rutherford, NJ (local.live)

Giants Stadium - East Rutherford, NJ (google)

Practice Facility - Hempstead, NY (google)


Oakland Raiders

McAfee Coliseum

Practice Facility - Alameda, CA


Philadelphia Eagles

Lincoln Financial Field (local.live)

Lincoln Financial Field (uc) (google)

Practice Facility - Philadelphia, PA (local.live)

Practice Facility - Philadelphia, PA (google)


Pittsburgh Steelers

Heinz Field

Practice Facility - Pittsburgh, PA

San Diego Chargers

Qualcomm Stadium

Practice Facility - San Diego, CA


San Francisco 49ers

Candlestick Park (local.live)

Candelstick Park (google)

Practice Facility -Santa Clara, CA (local.live)

Practice Facility - Santa Clara, CA (google)


St. Louis Rams

Edward Jones Dome (local.live)

Edward Jones Dome (google)

Practice Facility - Earth City, MO (local.live)

Practice Facility - Earth City, MO (google)


Seattle Seahawks

Qwest Field (local.live)

Qwest Field (google)

Practice Facility - Kirkland, WA (local.live)

Practice Facility - Kirkland, WA (google)


Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Raymond James Stadium (local.live)

Raymond James Stadium (google)

Pracitce Facility - Tampa, FL(local.live)

Practice Facility - Tampa, FL (google)


Tennessee Titans

Adelphia Coliseum (local.live)

Practice Facility - Nashville, TN (local.live)


Washington Redskins

FedEx Field - Landover, MD (local.live)

FedEx Field (google)

Practice Facility Ashburn, VA (local.live)

Practice Facility - Ashburn, VA (google)


----------



## Sounder

The pictures are awesome, I totally got the feel of the place. Can't wait for Feb. 5th. Go Seahawks!


----------



## rantanamo

dave8721 said:


> I wonder when they are going to drop the roman numeral thing? The numbers are starting to get a little high to refer to them as the number in a sequence since the first. Wouldn't Super Bowl 2006 make more sense? I guess it would get a little confusing since the regular season is played in 2005 and the playoffs and SB in 2006.


Funny thing is, XL is the antithesis to what you are saying. Very simple. I can see what you're saying though. Just watch the credits roll to the end on any movie.


----------



## Iain1974

Are these facilities open to the public or are the teams very secretive about their practice sessions?


----------



## Sounder

^ it varies. Usually they are the most accessible during August camp.


----------



## BobDaBuilder

What would be the proportion of supporters attending the match that actually support the two competing clubs? Or is it mainly the "theatre goer" set.

BTW there is a soup kitchen in Melbourne called "Supa Bowl".


----------



## rantanamo

"theatre goer" from what I can tell. Drastic contrast to the Rose Bowl earlier this month where half the stadium was red and half orange. Big home party and bar party day though.


----------



## BobDaBuilder

It appears to be a world wide affliction this "theatregoer" set. We also have the same gathering of blow-ins and hoi poloi at our big game down under. You will find the same with the World Cup final in the soccer, the Olympics etc.. I think it sucks.


----------



## XCRunner

^^This is one of the things I don't like about the Super Bowl. Too many CEO's and corporate big-shots at the game, and not enonough real, hard-core fans. It deminishes the atmosphere



dave8721 said:


> I wonder when they are going to drop the roman numeral thing? The numbers are starting to get a little high to refer to them as the number in a sequence since the first. Wouldn't Super Bowl 2006 make more sense? I guess it would get a little confusing since the regular season is played in 2005 and the playoffs and SB in 2006.


I see your point, but the 40th SB is the perfect one for Roman numerals. Super Bowl *XL*. Extra Large! It's perfect for the Super Bowl.


----------



## Clashman

Loranga said:


> Little bit ironic that this years SB is played in *Ford* Field, the year haven't started really well for Ford...


The cynical side of me kinda wonders if they didn't have that in mind when they invested in the stadium. Throw in a couple million dollars for naming rights to support the local sports team and maybe people wont think quite so bitterly of you when you shut down thousands of jobs and suck hundreds of millions of dollars out of the local economy a couple years later.


----------



## 40Acres

XCRunner said:


> ^^This is one of the things I don't like about the Super Bowl. Too many CEO's and corporate big-shots at the game, and not enonough real, hard-core fans. It deminishes the atmosphere


well, at just over $500 a ticket, FACE VALUE, i cant really see too many commoners really making the trip to Detroit (especially Detroit) for the game. It would cost thousands to get a flight, hotel, ticket (scalped), food, booze, and souveniers, so this thing really is built for the corporate heads, as shite as that sounds. Many people would rather use the money on a HiDef DLP widescreen or something and have a huge party. I remember my dad used to come home every January with a new Big Screen TV back in the early 90s when the Dallas Cowboys were tearing shit up in the SuperBowl. I think its more traditional to have a big party than to try to attend the game.

In 2 years, the SB is in Glendale, AZ (new Cardinals Stadium) and i have no desire to attend, even if it is the Cowboys playing. I think they said face value for those tix will be $575.


----------



## rantanamo

^ Very true on the parties. All you ever hear is about someone having a party or bars or restaurants showing the games and having superbowl parties. Don't think I know anyone who has ever attended the superbowl. As expensive as Rose Bowl tickets were in many cases, I know a ton of people who have gone the last couple of years.


----------



## BaronVonChickenpants

rantanamo said:


> ^ Very true on the parties. All you ever hear is about someone having a party or bars or restaurants showing the games and having superbowl parties. Don't think I know anyone who has ever attended the superbowl. As expensive as Rose Bowl tickets were in many cases, I know a ton of people who have gone the last couple of years.



so there is no fan segregation at the super bowl?


----------



## BaylorGuy314

Not generally, since it's held at a neutral site and costs so damn much to get in.

Just another example why NCAA football is so much better than the NFL.


----------



## BobDaBuilder

There are some tour companies about that advertise 6 or so months out about organized visits to the Super Bowl, US Masters Golf, Indy 500 whatever your bag. Pretty sure they cost around $10,000 AUD all up, including airfares from Oz. It might be way more now, but I have seen it in the past.

It is probably a better idea just to get along to a regular match and get along to one of these parties. The actual cash you would save could be put towards beer and feed.

Only managed to get to one gridiron game in LA between two uni teams. It was too hard to get down to San Diego when I was last in America to see pro gridiron. LA lost their NFL teams apparently so it was disapointing initially. Then actually going to the Uni game it was sensational. The bands and dancing you get is better than you get for the Olympic games opening ceremony! 

What really surprised me about gridiron was the actual time it took to play a game. It must be close to 4 hours all up. Lots of fun and plenty of on-field violence. It is quite a simple game to understand also. Ignore what the commentators are always harping on about it just confuses things. It all boils down to somehow getting the ball 10 yards in 4 attempts any damn way possible, providing you don't break one of the laws. Quite similar to rugby league where you get 6 "tackles" to move the ball downfield.


----------



## Kampflamm

Looks alright for a domed stadium but it's not really that special.


----------



## NavyBlue

I'd forgotten how odd and ugly Candlestick Park looks when in football mode especially from the aerial provided in this thread. It's definitely suited to baseball as there's not one stand that runs parallel with either sideline or endzone. I think it's time for a new purpose built football stadium in San Francisco...

btw...will LA ever have a pro football team again?


----------



## eddyk

Well done on making the thread.

It must of taken you a while.....so here is me awarding your hardwork by posting a comment.


Best Three - Reliant Stadium, Mile High, Soldier Field

Honourable Mentions - Ford Field, Gillette Stadium, Bank of America Stadium

Worst 3 - Giants Stadium, Candlestick Park, Heinz Field


----------



## Loranga

The NFL stadia in California looks quite bad compared to the rest of the country...


----------



## Doc Halladay

Best: Arrowhead, Lincoln Financial Field, Qwest Field

Honorale Mentions: Gillette Stadium, Ford Field, Heinz Field

Worst: Texas Stadium, Gerogia Dome, FedEx Field


----------



## TexasBoi

The Dallas Cowboys(America's Team  ) will be getting a new stadium in 2009 in the suburb of Arlington:rant:. It will be much much much better than the one they are in now.


----------



## Zorba

Doc Halladay said:


> Best: Arrowhead, Lincoln Financial Field, Qwest Field
> 
> Honorale Mentions: Gillette Stadium, Ford Field, Heinz Field
> 
> Worst: Texas Stadium, Gerogia Dome, FedEx Field


Are you on crack? How is FedEx Field one of the worst stadiums in the NFL. If anything it is one of the best.


----------



## Sounder

^ FedEx was rushed because JKC wanted to see it before he died so some corners were cut.

Dan Pompei of TSN: rating the 31 NFL stadiums

TSN rates FedEx Field at #26


----------



## eddyk

Who is JKC?


----------



## Doc Halladay

Zorba said:


> Are you on crack? How is FedEx Field one of the worst stadiums in the NFL. If anything it is one of the best.



Because it reminds me of a corporate toilet bowl. The Club Level is nice, but it doesn't make up for the rest of the stadium.


----------



## great prairie

The stadium is one of the largest(92,000 I think) and has one of the best atmospheres but it doesn't look as nice as some of the other new stadiums(Reliant, Soldier, Seahawks etc....)


----------



## Doc Halladay

eddyk said:


> Who is JKC?


Jack Kent Cooke


----------



## SDfan

Qualcomm is a very ugly facility. Its very effecient, but sooo unattractive. They where going to tear it down and replace that massive parking lot around it into a new stadium and urban village....but thats fallen through. So they're either going to be putting the Chargers somewere else in the county (not the city, no room), or they'll just be shipped to LA...or San Antonio. But I'd be damned if they go their.


----------



## NavyBlue

Sounder said:


> Dan Pompei of TSN: rating the 31 NFL stadiums
> 
> TSN rates FedEx Field at #26


^^Good read...thanks for the link Sounder

I can't say I disagree too much with Dan Pompei's article except I'd have Invesco Field a lot higher than 14 and for all of FedEx Field's shortcomings, a 90,000 seater stadium deserves better than 26.

ps...I think he's spot on with his appraisal of Atlanta's Georgia Dome.


----------



## andysimo123

40Acres said:


> well, at just over $500 a ticket, FACE VALUE, i cant really see too many commoners really making the trip to Detroit (especially Detroit) for the game. It would cost thousands to get a flight, hotel, ticket (scalped), food, booze, and souveniers, so this thing really is built for the corporate heads, as shite as that sounds. Many people would rather use the money on a HiDef DLP widescreen or something and have a huge party. I remember my dad used to come home every January with a new Big Screen TV back in the early 90s when the Dallas Cowboys were tearing shit up in the SuperBowl. I think its more traditional to have a big party than to try to attend the game.
> 
> In 2 years, the SB is in Glendale, AZ (new Cardinals Stadium) and i have no desire to attend, even if it is the Cowboys playing. I think they said face value for those tix will be $575.


Are the $500 tickets the cheapest tickets? £250+ is a rip off. For the League cup final (english league cup football)the cheapest tickets are £36 with the most expensive over £70($125).


----------



## MoreOrLess

XCRunner said:


> ^^This is one of the things I don't like about the Super Bowl. Too many CEO's and corporate big-shots at the game, and not enonough real, hard-core fans. It deminishes the atmosphere


The same is true to some degree at the FA cup final although the tickets are quite a bit cheaper. The best atmosphere of any English game is normally the division one/championship playoff final IMHO, even more so at the new Wembley I'd guess(if the clubs involved have a big enough following to fill it) since the lease seating does not include the playoffs.


----------



## rantanamo

Kampflamm said:


> Looks alright for a domed stadium but it's not really that special.


not that special compared to what?


----------



## Kampflamm

All I'm saying is that I've seen better. The outside and inside both down wow me.


----------



## rantanamo

yes they are. This has been talked about on this board for years


----------



## cianobuckley

So whos better the dodgers or the angels?


----------



## 40Acres

Threehundred said:


> The Rose Bowl. Home of..well..The Rose Bowl. As well as the UCLA Bruins.


Also known as, "The house that Vince owns"


----------



## bubomb

rantanamo said:


> yes they are. This has been talked about on this board for years



I can't see anything ridiculous about these genuine questions!! You have to remember that most people in Europe couldn't name a single Baseball player in the entire history of Baseball, and the game is virtually unknown in Europe, so these questions are perfectly normal questions for someone from Europe to ask!!


----------



## ReddAlert

cianobuckley said:


> So whos better the dodgers or the angels?


The Angels. The Dodgers arent going to be overly impessive this year...at least I hope.


----------



## rantanamo

bubomb said:


> I can't see anything ridiculous about these genuine questions!! You have to remember that most people in Europe couldn't name a single Baseball player in the entire history of Baseball, and the game is virtually unknown in Europe, so these questions are perfectly normal questions for someone from Europe to ask!!


of course, when its been discussed to death.


----------



## bubomb

rantanamo said:


> of course, when its been discussed to death.


but the person asking the question might be a new user or might have never read previous posts about Baseball stadiums!! I've been here a while and I haven't seen the topic discussed before!!

Talking about new questions - why haven't most American stadiums got any roofs? I'm surprised they can't afford to put roofs on these large stadiums!!


----------



## Zaqattaq

rantanamo said:


> Trojans time is not over. They've out recruited everyone by a wide margin for the past couple of years. They may not be the greatest next year, but they'll be just fine.


No doubt their a top program, just assumed a USC fan would be thinking a National Championship


----------



## vivayo

Threehundred said:


> The Rose Bowl. Home of..well..The Rose Bowl. As well as the UCLA Bruins.


Remember that the Rose Bowl also hosted back in 1994 the final game of a "little tiny tournement" that somebody calls it FIFA World Cup. That has far more importance that all the rose bowl games, super bowls, etc, combined.

BTW I was there at the first two games.


----------



## 40Acres

vivayo said:


> Remember that the Rose Bowl also hosted back in 1994 the final game of a "little tiny tournement" that somebody calls it FIFA World Cup. That has far more importance that all the rose bowl games, super bowls, etc, combined.
> 
> BTW I was there at the first two games.


I'm a soccer lover to the core, but that WC final was dull as dull gets and probably ranks outside the top 20 of "most important games ever played in the Rose Bowl". Hell, the USA-Columbia game outranks the significance of that WC final if you really put it in perspective ... and i attended the match of the WC in Brazil-Holland at the Cotton Bowl in Dallas. Holy smokes, that was great.

BTW, anyone have any pics of the Rose Bowl during WC '94?


----------



## bubomb

40Acres said:


> I'm a soccer lover to the core, but that WC final was dull as dull gets and probably ranks outside the top 20 of "most important games ever played in the Rose Bowl". Hell, the USA-Columbia game outranks the significance of that WC final if you really put it in perspective ... and i attended the match of the WC in Brazil-Holland at the Cotton Bowl in Dallas. Holy smokes, that was great.
> 
> BTW, anyone have any pics of the Rose Bowl during WC '94?


Wrong i'm afraid. From a World perspective, the World Cup final is the most important game EVER played at the Rose Bowl!!

I can't think of a more important sport event played there (please remember that the Super Bowl means nothing to 90% of the World's population). There is no bigger event than the World Cup final (even if it was a boring final)!!


----------



## themongrel

i read somewhere that the superbowl final gets about 500million viewers world wide, the world cup final gets about 3billion. 

on a global scale the world cup final is by far the most important thing the rose bowl has ever staged, the only way the rose bowl can top it is if it gets to host the final again.


----------



## bubomb

40Acres said:


> I'm a soccer lover to the core, but that WC final was dull as dull gets and probably ranks outside the top 20 of "most important games ever played in the Rose Bowl". Hell, the USA-Columbia game outranks the significance of that WC final if you really put it in perspective ... and i attended the match of the WC in Brazil-Holland at the Cotton Bowl in Dallas. Holy smokes, that was great.
> 
> BTW, anyone have any pics of the Rose Bowl during WC '94?


----------



## 40Acres

bubomb said:


> Wrong i'm afraid. From a World perspective, the World Cup final is the most important game EVER played at the Rose Bowl!!
> 
> I can't think of a more important sport event played there (please remember that the Super Bowl means nothing to 90% of the World's population). There is no bigger event than the World Cup final (even if it was a boring final)!!



explain to me why it was so important to the legendary status of The Rose Bowl. In historical terms, it came years and years after the RB became known as the "Grandaddy of Them All". Its considered largely Americana, and a source of tremendous pride for Angelenos, Californians, and Americans. Its kinda like 'our' Wembley, where everyone dreams of playing as a kid. 

I stick to my point, that the WC final is not of top 20 significance as far as games played in the RB in relation to its status as "The Grandaddy". USA-Columbia would fall somewhere between 15-20 in terms of rank. One could even argue that the Women's WC final in 1999 would be a top-10 event, as it was was the most-attended women's sports event in history, with an official attendance of 90,185. This one game alone made great strides for the marketability of women's sports worldwide.


Yes, all of us on here realize soccer's audience .. you all beat that point to death ... but in terms of the status of the stadium, it has left little mark.


----------



## Scba

There's no way that 3 billion people watched the World Cup final. That's darn close to half of the entire world.


----------



## Bigmac1212

*Model pictures and renderings of renovated Stanford Stadium*

I don't know if we had more than the exterior of the press box. They have a site on the renovation of Stanford's (American) football stadium. Here's some of the pictures:
























Looks okay. This means the Cardinal (no, I'm not missing an s) track and field team needs a new venue to call home.


----------



## 40Acres

I've went to the old Stanford Stadium once, and had a great time. That was truly a unique setting .... with the Redwoods peeking out over the stadium top, the fog rolling in as night fell, and those oooold wooden benches. 

My team lost, but that was a great trip.

This new stadium looks great because its modern, but IMO, cant match up to the atmosphere of the old one.

Edit: Looking it over again, it kinda resembles a scaled down version of Sun Devil Stadium. That lower bowl is short, but overall, the stands appear steep. If they can fill that thing up, it could be intimidating the way the upper deck seems to be perched atop the field.


----------



## bubomb

40Acres said:


> explain to me why it was so important to the legendary status of The Rose Bowl. In historical terms, it came years and years after the RB became known as the "Grandaddy of Them All". Its considered largely Americana, and a source of tremendous pride for Angelenos, Californians, and Americans. Its kinda like 'our' Wembley, where everyone dreams of playing as a kid.
> 
> I stick to my point, that the WC final is not of top 20 significance as far as games played in the RB in relation to its status as "The Grandaddy". USA-Columbia would fall somewhere between 15-20 in terms of rank. One could even argue that the Women's WC final in 1999 would be a top-10 event, as it was was the most-attended women's sports event in history, with an official attendance of 90,185. This one game alone made great strides for the marketability of women's sports worldwide.
> 
> 
> Yes, all of us on here realize soccer's audience .. you all beat that point to death ... but in terms of the status of the stadium, it has left little mark.


Again, you are only seeing things from an American perspective!! I'm sure the 94 World Cup final wasn't nearly the biggest event at the Rose Bowl for Americans, but Worldwide, most people had never heard of the Rose Bowl until the 94 World Cup final was played there (including me). Worldwide nobody knows it is called the "The Grandaddy" in the USA. Worldwide the Rose Bowl is known for one single reason - the 94 World Cup final!!

You have to try and understand that outside of America, the Super Bowl games and the big college games played at the Rose Bowl mean next to nothing!!

The 94 World Cup final has left a massive mark on the stadium, as now people around the world know what the Rose Bowl is!! Before 94 they wouldn't have had a clue what you were talking about!!


----------



## bubomb

Scba said:


> There's no way that 3 billion people watched the World Cup final. That's darn close to half of the entire world.


It's the World Cup final man!! Of course half the world watches it!! It's the biggest sports event in the world!!


----------



## Wezza

rantanamo said:


> There are stands all around a baseball field. Many in different places. Some areas stacked more than others. Please o please stop this ridiculousness.


Get over it mate. I was just asking why baseball stadiums rarely had the same stands all the way around. It's something that i have always wondered about. It wasn't meant to ruffle anyones feathers, sorry if i offended you!!!


----------



## Scba

Are they going to try to attract an NBA team?


----------



## northern italian

I can't wait to see the games on the italian TV


----------



## rantanamo

great tournament so far. Nice upset by Northwestern State over Iowa on a buzzer beating 3-pointer.


----------



## STLSportsFan4

American Airlines Center is the best arena in the tournament and the country for that matter


----------



## ReddAlert

*European soccer in America?*

Since we are talking about NBA teams in Europe...would it at all be possible for an American team in one of your highly touted Euro leauges? I am sure a land of 300 million can put together a team that is at least competitive with those in Europe? Maybe a team in NYC, Miami, Chicago, or D.C.? Manchester United and Real Madrid got crowds upwards to around 60,000 in Chicago. 

I read something somewhere that European soccer is more popular and more watched in America than the MLS is.


----------



## Kampflamm

So which league would they then join? IMO such proposal would make little to no sense since we also have relegation in European leagues, so they wouldn't even be assured a couple of games against teams like Barca, Arsenal or Bayern.


----------



## MoreOrLess

MLS teams playing the in the Champs League would I'd guess be pushed for by some if the league were to become more sucessful although the Copa Libertadores would probabley be much easier for them to enter considering Mexican teams do already.


----------



## andysimo123

The only thing I can see happening is the the MLS being entered into the Champions league but that will never happen unless football becomes very very popular in the USA. They could never just enter into a league over here because each country has its own leagues in which only teams from the country can enter.


----------



## Lance

They wouldn't go in to the champions league. They can be included in the World Club Cup I suppose.... perhaps have some sort of North America qualifying competition. The european champions league is run by UEFA for european clubs. Each country has it's own FA and has its own competitions. FIFA run the world club cup since they are the world governing body. Friendlies..... yes. Entry in to the leagues or competitions.... no.


----------



## Martuh

ReddAlert said:


> Since we are talking about NBA teams in Europe...would it at all be possible for an American team in one of your highly touted Euro leauges? I am sure a land of 300 million can put together a team that is at least competitive with those in Europe? Maybe a team in NYC, Miami, Chicago, or D.C.? Manchester United and Real Madrid got crowds upwards to around 60,000 in Chicago.
> 
> I read something somewhere that European soccer is more popular and more watched in America than the MLS is.


No they couldn't, same as our best basketballteam never has a chance against your weakest team.


----------



## eli

Martuh said:


> No they couldn't, same as our best basketballteam never has a chance against your weakest team.


I think it is different.
The one who would be more profitable? The MLS teams to the Champion's League or European basketball teams to the NBA?


----------



## Plumber73

I don't see the point, and there is something called the Atlantic... Who really want's that setup, I mean nobody in Europe. The MLS certainly wouldn't like the idea. The MLS should be allowed to build and work towards becoming as popular as the European Leagues. What would plunking an all-star team in the US do to the MLS? Nothing good I'm guessing. 

NBA in Europe? I hate the idea of expanding all the time for the sake of getting bigger. You'd have to setup a whole division in Europe and have the teams play each other. I can't see teams traveling over an ocean and back every other week. Also, isn't there already some decent basketball leagues in Europe? 

Just not a great idea in my opinion. :2cents:


----------



## Sikario

South American teams aren't allowed in the Champions League so why should teams from the US? I'm afraid you could play each and every one of those 300 million at the same time, and they'd still struggle against the likes of Ronaldinho.

"Leagues apart"


----------



## Metropolitan

If MLS teams should join an international competition, I think it's more rational for them to join the Copa Libertadores.


----------



## hngcm

^^ south americans are mad enough that Mexican teams are in it already.

but yeah, it would be nice if the MLS champion gets a bid for the Libertadores.


----------



## Breakwood

MLS teams allready play in the Copa Sudamericana which is basically the UEFA cup of South America, so they could theoretically play in the Copa Lib in the future.


----------



## Zorba

ReddAlert said:


> Since we are talking about NBA teams in Europe...would it at all be possible for an American team in one of your highly touted Euro leauges? I am sure a land of 300 million can put together a team that is at least competitive with those in Europe? Maybe a team in NYC, Miami, Chicago, or D.C.? Manchester United and Real Madrid got crowds upwards to around 60,000 in Chicago.
> 
> I read something somewhere that European soccer is more popular and more watched in America than the MLS is.


If DC United played in a meaningful Premeiership game against a team like Chelsea or Liverpool, DC United would lose 4-0. 

Anyways, it wouldnt make sense putting US teams in like the English Premeirship or the Spanish La Liga because it would defeat the whole purpose of those leagues.


----------



## Maccabi

*HP Pavillion at Jan Jose,CA,USA*

This is the thread for HP Pavillion i n San Jose home of NHL team *San Jose Sharks*


----------



## Loranga

We'll see what happens when the G-14 teams leaves their "native leagues" and start their own league...


----------



## MoreOrLess

Sikario said:


> South American teams aren't allowed in the Champions League so why should teams from the US?


$$$$$$$$$


----------



## Isaac Newell

I can envisage a Champions League final in the USA one day or Juventus playing a home fixture in New York.


----------



## MoreOrLess

If football/soccer were to become massively popular in the US then I'm sure UEFA would be after a peice of that, whether FIFA would try and spot them or not is another matter I spose.


----------



## kingdomca

Loranga said:


> We'll see what happens when the G-14 teams leaves their "native leagues" and start their own league...


which they will never do. Their bluff should be called.


----------



## Loranga

kingdomca said:


> which they will never do. Their bluff should be called.


I would not be surprised if they do. Nevertheless, in that case, we could see a even bigger stadia boom in Europe (especially outside of England, Germany, France, Spain and Italy), like the one the U.S have had.


----------



## andysimo123

Loranga said:


> We'll see what happens when the G-14 teams leaves their "native leagues" and start their own league...


United have said they wont be going near such a league.


----------



## Loranga

Time will tell


----------



## johnz88

The other thing is that american teams aren't clubs but franchises and have I guess less freedom. The MLS runs the teams more that the owners. I don't know if the MLS would even let teams enter a tournament across the pond.


----------



## asdfg

Israeli teams are allowed to play in the Champions League so I don't see why not.


----------



## tommygunn

Isaac Newell said:


> I can envisage a Champions League final in the USA one day or Juventus playing a home fixture in New York.


What would be the point of that? it would not be the European champions league then.


----------



## johnz88

Why don't you post some pictures so we know what ur talking about


----------



## Tuesday

It would be great if there were 6 almost equally talented continent-areas all fighting to produce the best team on the planet. The best teams from Oceana, Europe, Asia, Africa, North America and South America all in a superleague each year. Shame that only Europe and S. America tend to compete at the moment. Does North America even have a continental club competition like the Libertadores or our Champions League?


----------



## MoreOrLess

I'd agree with kingdomca, a euro super league is unlikely to happen due to the uncertainly such a breakaway would cause. I think most of the big clubs now realise that without their local rivarys and connection to the rest of the country their fans would start to lose interest aswell.

If US football does start to gain populatity I'd guess their will be a struggle between FIFA and UEFA on this very issue. As we've seen with recent world cups FIFA wants to build the games popularity outside europe(Germany and possible France were able to host agenst their wishes) because it fears UEFA's growing power as the champs league and european championships have grown in importance relative to the World Cup.


----------



## Loranga

Don't forget that there is a lot of interest of these (G14) teams in countries like Sweden, Japan, USA, whatever, where the "local rivalry" isn't of as big interest as maybe in England or so. 

The G14 league could also give an opportunity for countries like Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, Greece (well, all european countries except England, Germany, Spain, France and Italy) to have really good club football in their respective countries).


----------



## soup or man

I remember last season, the LA Galaxy faced Manchester United for expo play.


----------



## XCRunner

This is even less likely to happen than NBA teams in Europe (which will never happen either). MLS teams in the Champions League is a pipe dream, let alone in EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, etc.


----------



## hngcm

Tuesday said:


> Does North America even have a continental club competition like the Libertadores or our Champions League?


Yep. The CONCACAF Champion's Cup.

Mexican teams DOMINATE the cup. 

This years final is between two Mexican teams, America and Toluca.


----------



## kingdomca

Loranga said:


> Don't forget that there is a lot of interest of these (G14) teams in countries like Sweden, Japan, USA, whatever, where the "local rivalry" isn't of as big interest as maybe in England or so.
> 
> The G14 league could also give an opportunity for countries like Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, Greece (well, all european countries except England, Germany, Spain, France and Italy) to have really good club football in their respective countries).


These G14 clubs still make much more money from their domestic leagues than they do from european competition. If they created a euro league they would wave goodbye to most of their income in order to join something extremly speulative that might easily fail.

They would need many games to just make up the shortfall in income.
What should the format be? 
One large 24 team league to get about the same number of games, but now most teams would be mid-table teams playing irrelevant games against opponents they dont really have any connections with. Watch the interest nosedive.
Group stages? what should the teams knocked out do for the remaining part of the season.

The G14 arent dumb enough to do this. What they want, especially the spanish and italian members, is to financially dominate their domestic leagues making it an easy money-making machine that also guarantees them access to europe.


----------



## simadon

Yup, Id really like to see 1-2 teams from the MLS in the Champs League.

One Euro bball team in the NBA playoffs could work but less likely.


----------



## Brent H.

Im not an MLS fan just because its just not of the quality of the Champions League and premiership and all that jazz. and its hard to follow European soccer due to the fact that live matches are on at strange hours and ESPN knows nothing about soccer. With American football, baseball and basketball, I can turn on the TV just about anytime and can usually find one of the three either being played or being talked about, but I have to search and seek out the few televised football matches that are on. I heard recently that ESPN was televising a match that was tape delayed an hour but on the ticker at the bottom of the screen, they had shown the final score of the game they were televising at the time. So fans in America were watching the game as if it was live and stupid ESPN flashes the final score while these fans were watching. 

Anyway, I cant imagine MLS teams being able to compete in the CL, there isnt enough support for an entire league that would be competitive at that level, and the way the MLS is run is completely different. I guess you could have 1-2 superclubs that could leech on to a European like like the Premiership or the SPanish league (San Antonio, Texas used to have a CFL team), but I doubt current fans of those leagues would like it.


----------



## Maccabi

I will leave this job to be done by people who know it better than me  
Or who live there.


----------



## Neda Say

great prairie just so you know Parker is french


----------



## Neda Say

I have a quick question, might be silly but hey... we are all silly most of the times 
what is so uncool about playing south american teams for North America?
If you go to play in brasil you would play infront of 50000+ on most games
I remember the Juventus road trip a couple of years ago they did not packed the stadium... when mexico comes to visit they don't do it either (ie last week in detroit)
What makes you think that Chelsea or Milan AC will do better for a sport who's not yet in the american top 3


----------



## Neda Say

I want to see the Vancouver Whitecaps and the Montreal Impact in the MLS and an American team winning the Concacaf Cup before US teams are authorised to play in any other league... American soccer made a lot of progress for sure but it's not there yet.


----------



## ReddAlert

TalB said:


> In the US soccer is hardly an enjoyed sport. Only minorities and immigrants are seen attending MLS games as well as watching the World Cup. It's just unfortunate, that many Americans will never understand soccer. On a sidenote, I can never understand why it even called soccer in this country especially when the name football makes more sense in how it is being used.


Yeah man, I dont know if it was this thread or another--where I was talking about the bags of Doritos that say "Cheer Mexico on in the 06 World Cup" and show a Mexican player--not an American.


----------



## FM 2258

I haven't read all the posts but I don't see any interest for soccer in the United States. Personally I think watching soccer is boooooooorrrrrring. :down:


----------



## NFLeuropefan

Welly said:


> Did you know, that if you placed all the hot dogs eaten at the Super Bowl end to end, you'd have far more fun than watching the drivel on the pitch?


Thank you dumbass, for the elightened post...


----------



## Welly

NFLeuropefan said:


> Thank you dumbass, for the elightened post...


Less of the personal insults and more of the stadium talk please or face a ban.


----------



## great prairie

Neda Say said:


> great prairie just so you know Parker is french


I always thought that too but I only checked on ESPN.com(should have checked wiki too) and he was born in Belguim and raised in France...


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3527

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Parker


----------



## rantanamo

MoreOrLess said:


> I must admit I'v never understood why cities go to such lenghts to get the superbowl, by comparason getting the european cup final is very much an afterthugh in stadium construction.


Because the Superbowl is huge. American sportsfans spend, spend spend. They buy their favorite player's shoes, clothes and advertised brands. NFL fans that can afford to go to the Superbowl spend even more. They bring their fatcat friends along as well. Not to mention all the celebrities and huge parties they throw. Its a bonanza that can pretty much offset the money spent on a stadium in one weekend. Not to menton those fatcats get valuable exposure to one's city. Positive image is pretty much priceless. As big as the Olympics are, it wouldn't suprise me if a Superbowl weekend alone could produce nearly the revenue. YES, that many people are coming to town and spending that much money. It's ridiculous. People that have been around a Superbowl weekend know what I'm talking about. It is simply nuts.


----------



## Scba

I think it's a STUPID idea! First they talk about renovating this place for the Super Bowl, then Kaufmann Stadium for the All-Star game, totally destroying the old images of the great stadia. 

Do the bigwigs of the sport leagues have a hard-on for KC all of a sudden? I just don't get it. Arrowhead must be one of the most difficult stadiums in the NFL to slap a roof on, being so wide open and spread out. It's classic just the way it is now.


----------



## 40Acres

FM 2258 said:


> I haven't read all the posts but I don't see any interest for soccer in the United States. Personally I think watching soccer is boooooooorrrrrring. :down:


yeah, and some people don't like beer, corn chips, or hardcore porn. And they have their opinions, but like yours, its the wrong opinion.


----------



## AcesHigh

Breakwood said:


> MLS teams allready play in the Copa Sudamericana which is basically the UEFA cup of South America, so they could theoretically play in the Copa Lib in the future.


do they???


----------



## AcesHigh

Tuesday said:


> It would be great if there were 6 almost equally talented continent-areas all fighting to produce the best team on the planet. The best teams from Oceana, Europe, Asia, Africa, North America and South America all in a superleague each year. Shame that only Europe and S. America tend to compete at the moment. Does North America even have a continental club competition like the Libertadores or our Champions League?



hello, I should remember that the Toyota Club has changed its format... FIFA finally decided to really change the competition and such... 

in the end of 2005 we had the first World Clubs Cup by FIFA. The champions of Oceania, Asia, Africa and North America, faced each other. The 2 best then faced either São Paulo (South America) or Liverpool (Europe).
Guess what? Both São Paulo and Liverpool won, and then faced each other in the final. São Paulo was champion.


----------



## AcesHigh

hngcm said:


> Yep. The CONCACAF Champion's Cup.
> 
> Mexican teams DOMINATE the cup.
> 
> This years final is between two Mexican teams, America and Toluca.



why the hell Mexican teams play in both Libertadores and this Concacaf Cup????

If a Mexican team wins at the Libertadores and another wins this Concacaf, then two mexican teams will be disputing the World Club Championship, representing two different continents!! This DOESNT MAKES SENSE!


----------



## hngcm

Nobody really cares about the World Cup Championship in reality. 

It's more about the prestige of the Cup.

And on that note.

Chivas defeated Sao Paulo in Morumbi 2-1.

So much for the past champions.

This cup belongs to Chivas.


----------



## AcesHigh

TalB said:


> In the US soccer is hardly an enjoyed sport. Only minorities and immigrants are seen attending MLS games as well as watching the World Cup. It's just unfortunate, that many Americans will never understand soccer. On a sidenote, I can never understand why it even called soccer in this country especially when the name football makes more sense in how it is being used.


this post cant be coming from an american. You are an immigrant, right??


----------



## AcesHigh

Was São Paulo eliminated? I am not following the Libertadores, cuz Internacional is the arch-rival of my team, Grêmio.


----------



## Lostboy

_And they have their opinions, but like yours, its the wrong opinion._

Abandoning objectivism just like that? Forgivable in the defence of the beautiful game.


----------



## AcesHigh

can MLS teams join a CLUB competition? I mean, MLS teams are not clubs. There is no relegation in MLS. Teams are franchises and can move from one city to the other!

Also, they all have fancy comic book names with comic book pop style logos, while european/south american clubs usually have shields and club names, like Sport Association "InsertNameOfCityHere". 


There are some 18 professional teams in US right?

Brazil has over 800 professional football teams. Buenos Aires alone has 16 professional football clubs.

Brazil has so many clubs that there are STATE championships... and some states have 3 divisions (relegation, promotion)


Here, a list of professional clubs in RIO GRANDE DO SUL STATE ALONE
Primeira Divisão (in bold, the teams that participate of the first division of the brazilian national championship)

* Clube Esportivo Bento Gonçalves
* Grêmio Esportivo São José (Cachoeira do Sul)
* Clube 15 de Novembro
* Sport Club Ulbra
* Sociedade Esportiva e Recreativa Caxias do Sul
** Esporte Clube Juventude*
* Esporte Clube Novo Hamburgo
* Esporte Clube Passo Fundo
* Grêmio Esportivo Brasil (Pelotas)
* Grêmio Atlético Farroupilha (Pelotas)








** Sport Club Internacional*
* Esporte Clube São José (Porto Alegre)
* Futebol Clube Santa Cruz
* Grêmio Esportivo Glória
* Esporte Clube São Luiz (Ijuí)
* Sport Club Gaúcho (Passo Fundo)
* Veranópolis Esporte Clube Recreativo e Cultural

Segunda Divisão

* São Gabriel Futebol Clube
* Esporte Clube Guarani (Venâncio Aires)
* Esporte ClubeAvenida(Santa Cruz)
* Grêmio Esportivo Bagé
* Guarany Futebol Clube (Bagé)
* Cachoeira Futebol Clube
* Associação Carazinhense de Futebol
* Tupy Futebol Clube (Crissiumal)
* Ypiranga Futebol Clube (Erechim)
* Sociedade Esportiva Recreativa e Cultural Brasil (Farroupilha)
* Associação Garibaldi de Esportes
* Clube Esportivo Aimoré (Bento Gonçalves)
* Clube Esportivo Lajeadense
* Esporte Clube Pelotas
* Esporte Clube Cruzeiro (Porto Alegre)
* Porto Alegre Futebol Clube
* Sport Club Rio Grande
* Sport Club São Paulo (Rio Grande)
* Esporte Clube Internacional (Santa Maria)
* Riograndense Futebol Clube (Santa Maria)
* Esporte Clube 14 de Julho (Santana do Livramento)
* Juventus Atlético Clube (Santa Rosa)
* Sociedade Esportiva e Recreativa Santo Ângelo
* Grêmio Esportivo Sapucaiense
* Esporte Clube Ipiranga (Sarandi)
* Três Passos Atlético Clube
* Estrela Futebol Clube
* Associação Esportiva Sapiranga


São Paulo state clubs (4 divisions - total, 104 clubs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

A1 divison (best one)
*AD São Caetano*
América Futebol Clube
Associação Atlética Ponte Preta
Associação Atlética Portuguesa
Associação Portuguesa de Desportos
Clube Atlético Bragantino
Clube Atlético Juventus
Esporte Clube Noroeste
Esporte Clube Santo André
Esporte Clube São Bento
Guarani Futebol Clube
Ituano Sociedade Civil de Futebol Ltda
Marília Atlético Clube
Mogi Mirim Esporte Clube
Paulista Futebol Clube Ltda
Rio Branco Esporte Clube
*Santos Futebol Clube*
*São Paulo Futebol Clube*
*Sociedade Esportiva Palmeiras*
*Sport Club Corinthians Paulista*

A2 Division
Associação Atlética Internacional
Associação Esportiva Araçatuba
Bandeirante Esporte Clube
Clube Atlético Sorocaba
Clube Atlético Taquaritinga
Comercial Futebol Clube
Esporte Clube Taubaté
Esporte Clube XV Novembro - Piracicaba
Grêmio Recreativo Barueri
Guaratinguetá Esporte Clube
Mirassol Futebol Clube
Nacional Atlético Clube
Oeste Futebol Clube
Olímpia Futebol Clube
Rio Claro Futebol Clube
Rio Preto Esporte Clube
Sertãozinho Futebol Clube
Sociedade Esportiva Palmeiras B
União Barbarense Futebol Clube Ltda
União São João Esporte Clube

A3 Division
Associação Atlética Flamengo
Associação Atlética Francana
Associação Atlética Itararé
Associação Esportiva Santacruzense
Atlético Monte Azul
Barretos Esporte Clube
Botafogo Futebol Clube
Esporte Clube Osasco
Esporte Clube Primavera
Esporte Clube XV de Novembro - Jaú
Ferroviária Futebol S/A
Grêmio Esportivo Mauaense
Independente Futebol Sociedade Civil Ltda
Osvaldo Cruz Futebol Clube
São Bernardo Futebol Clube Ltda
São Carlos Futebol Ltda
São José Esporte Clube
São Vicente Atlético Clube
Sociedade Esportiva Matonense
Sociedade Esportiva Votuporanga

Second Division
Amparo Athlético Club
Associação Desportiva de Guarujá
Associação Desportiva Guarulhos
Associação Esportiva Ilha Solteira
Atlético Esportivo Araçatuba
Barcelona Esportivo Capela Ltda
Batatais Futebol Clube
Campinas Futebol Clube
Capivariano Futebol Clube
Clube Atlético Assisense
Clube Atlético Guaçuano
Clube Atlético Joseense
Clube Atlético Lemense
Clube Atlético Lençoense
Clube Atlético Linense
Clube Atlético Penapolense
Clube Atlético Pirassununguense
Clube Atlético Taboão da Serra
Clube de Futebol Boa Vista Ltda
Esporte Clube União Suzano
Fernandópolis Futebol Clube
Força Esporte Clube
Ginásio Pinhalense de Esportes Atléticos
Grêmio Catanduvense de Futebol
Guariba Futebol Clube
Jabaquara Atlético Clube
Jaboticabal Atlético
Jacareí Atlético Clube
José Bonifácio Esporte Clube
Mogi das Cruzes Futebol Ltda
Oeste Paulista Esporte Clube
Osasco Futebol Clube
Presidente Prudente Futebol Clube
PSB São Bernardo Futebol Escola
Radium Futebol Clube
Sociedade Esportiva Itapirense
Sport Club Atibaia
Sport Club Campo Limpo Paulista
Sumaré Atlético Clube
Tanabi Esporte Clube
Tupã Futebol Clube
União Futebol Clube
União Suzano Atlético Clube
Votoraty Futebol Clube Ltda


----------



## TalB

AcesHigh said:


> this post cant be coming from an american. You are an immigrant, right??


It is true that I am not American-born, but that's besides the point. Honsestly, the male WASPs have never found soccer to be that great as oppossed to football, which shouldn't even have that name to start with. I have been to a Metrostars, now the Redbulls, game once, and most of the people I saw there were mainly Hispanics. When CNN showed the 1998 World Cup and on how it was viewed in the US, it was mainly minorities and immigrants who seemed to be the bigger fans. However, I do find it irony the US Womens Soccer Team is actually supported more than the US Mens Soccer Team, but my guess is that's b/c they just suck. On a sidenote, I actually did like soccer as my favorite sport and I have even played in a local soccer team, but as I started school, I started to like basketball more, so I lost all interests for soccer.


----------



## 40Acres

TalB said:


> However, I do find it irony the US Womens Soccer Team is actually supported more than the US Mens Soccer Team, but my guess is that's b/c they just suck.



First of all, how is that _ironic_? Secondly, you've disqualified yourself from making any future posts regarding soccer, as you obviously have NO CLUE about the current state of the game, especially in the United States. The MNT, in fact, does not 'suck'.

Stick to your chickball expertise on the WNBA threads. Thats more your speed.


----------



## NFLeuropefan

Oh, so that comment you posted was "stadium talk" Sure....... I'm not the one who started making stupid comments.....


----------



## NFLeuropefan

Seriously though, although soccer is not a nothing sport, it ain't much of anything here in the U.S. The TV ratings and attendace are pathetic for MLS, and the interest in the USMNT in so high that they show half of their games on tape delay..... Not to put down soccer, but that's kinda the reality.......


----------



## Zorba

great prairie said:


> ^^No they couldn't if their players where good enough to compete in the NBA they would playing in the NBA and not in greece


In the European Basketball Championships last summer, the Greek team which had 0 NBA players won the entire tournament beating teams from the rest of Europe who had star NBA players (Germany-Nowitski and France-Parker). This proves that basketball isn't about who has the most NBA players.

The quality of European leagues and national teams in Basketball has caught up to the US. I think that some of the elite European teams can play in the NBA.

European teams deserve much more credit than you give them.


----------



## Lostboy

_Not to put down soccer, but that's kinda the reality......._

As much as it would be a nice little addition for football to break into the American Market, if it doesn't the fact that the rest of the world is passionate about the game, and that its the most popular sport in a majority of countries, - curiously often those where it is not, New Zealand, India, Australia, South Africa etc tend to be places which as well as being former British Colonies, retained much British Culture, not sure quite why that should be - means we'll somehow manage to get over it, without too many nights crying into our pillows.


----------



## 40Acres

Zorba said:


> The quality of European leagues and national teams in Basketball has caught up to the US. I think that some of the elite European teams can play in the NBA.
> 
> European teams deserve much more credit than you give them.


did they play by the real rules or the women's rules of Europe basketball. So, you're saying that beating a team with ONE NBA player proves that greek teams belong in the NBA? LOL

Look, in a meaningful game, say something other than PRIDE on the line, the NBA team wins 9/10 games. Say, if a greek team WAS in the NBA and it was playoff game or something ... any team out of the west would blow out a greek team, though the greeks would give the bottom 4 playoff teams of the eastern division a good game. For example, a mediocre team in the weaker East division like the Miluakee Bucks with TJ Ford, Michael Redd, Charlie Bell, Andrew Bogot, Dan Gadzuric, Toni Kukoc, etc would just spank any team from Europe. 

But face it. The Euro leagues just get all of the NBA rejects. There are a ton of former college stars over there that light up those leagues, but can't make it out of training camp here in the states. 

We appreciate your enthusiasm in basketball, really we do, but tap the brake on winning the NBA championship a little bit.


----------



## Lostboy

_But face it. The Euro leagues just get all of the NBA rejects. There are a ton of former college stars over there that light up those leagues, but can't make it out of training camp here in the states. _ 

I know sod all about basketball, but I imagine leagues will operate in much the same way that all other professional sports leagues do. So whilst the gap in quality would initially be huge, because the differences in the money and prestige of the leagues, if say Greece managed to get a franchise - that is one very weird system btw - in the NBA, the Athens Hellenes, Spartan Invicibles or the Theban Medisers, they'd have access to the money, sponsorship, tv rights and the glamour of playing the best teams in the world, so it probably wouldn't be too long before they were doing rathe respectable. A Euroleague may get all the rejects, a European Team in the NBA however would not neccessarily be at such a great disadvantage.


----------



## 40Acres

Lostboy said:


> _But face it. The Euro leagues just get all of the NBA rejects. There are a ton of former college stars over there that light up those leagues, but can't make it out of training camp here in the states. _
> 
> I know sod all about basketball, but I imagine leagues will operate in much the same way that all other professional sports leagues do. So whilst the gap in quality would initially be huge, because the differences in the money and prestige of the leagues, if say Greece managed to get a franchise - that is one very weird system btw - in the NBA, the Athens Hellenes, Spartan Invicibles or the Theban Medisers, they'd have access to the money, sponsorship, tv rights and the glamour of playing the best teams in the world, so it probably wouldn't be too long before they were doing rathe respectable. A Euroleague may get all the rejects, a European Team in the NBA however would not neccessarily be at such a great disadvantage.



excellent point. 

Although, all things being equal, the Bucks beat Athens by 20 if they played in the NBA playoffs tonight.


----------



## 40Acres

rantanamo said:


> Because the Superbowl is huge. American sportsfans spend, spend spend. They buy their favorite player's shoes, clothes and advertised brands. NFL fans that can afford to go to the Superbowl spend even more. They bring their fatcat friends along as well. Not to mention all the celebrities and huge parties they throw. Its a bonanza that can pretty much offset the money spent on a stadium in one weekend. Not to menton those fatcats get valuable exposure to one's city. Positive image is pretty much priceless. As big as the Olympics are, it wouldn't suprise me if a Superbowl weekend alone could produce nearly the revenue. YES, that many people are coming to town and spending that much money. It's ridiculous. People that have been around a Superbowl weekend know what I'm talking about. It is simply nuts.



You know whats a crazy thought ... that in 2008 when Phoenix hosts the Superbowl, it will be on the same weekend as the FBR open, which brings about 500,000 golf fans over the 4-day weekend. Its one of the biggest, if not THE biggest golf tournaments in the world. It would probably be bigger if the organizers didnt insist on having it on Superbowl weekend every year.

I just cant even fathom the billions brought into the Phoenix metro that week.


----------



## Zorba

40Acres said:


> excellent point.
> 
> Although, all things being equal, the Bucks beat Athens by 20 if they played in the NBA playoffs tonight.


There is no team called "Athens"

There is Panathinaikos and there is Olympiakos (who arguably have become better than Panathinaikos)


----------



## NEWWORLD

I love it, great design, very modern and simple solution.


----------



## SkyLerm

what a nice stadium, nicer than the most of american NFL stadia


----------



## The Great Hizzy!

Well, the SB is probably a no-go now. KC voters rejected the plan to add retractable roofs, though they did vote yes to stadium upgrades to both Arrowhead and Kaufman Stadiums.


----------



## tonytowers

Anyway folks I got an announcement to make:

The game is called FOOTBALL

not soccer, get it right you bloody Americans! hehe


----------



## NFLeuropefan

THANK GOD!!!
Good thing for football.


----------



## CharlieP

tonytowers said:


> Anyway folks I got an announcement to make:
> 
> The game is called FOOTBALL
> 
> not soccer, get it right you bloody Americans! hehe


Soccer is just one kind of football - there are several other types of football in the world, and ignorant soccer fans posting the same complaint time after time doesn't help matters one little bit.


----------



## MoreOrLess

NFLeuropefan said:


> Seriously though, although soccer is not a nothing sport, it ain't much of anything here in the U.S. The TV ratings and attendace are pathetic for MLS, and the interest in the USMNT in so high that they show half of their games on tape delay..... Not to put down soccer, but that's kinda the reality.......


I can't find any actual attendance figures but isnt there normally quite a bit of interest when the big european teams play friendlies in the US? The world cup was very popular aswell which tends to suggest to me that it isnt so much a lack of interest in soccer/football as it is a lack of interest in the standard of play in the MLS and in events that take place outside the US. Unlike most devolping leagues the MLS does have the advantage of a large potential fanbase with lots of disposable income and access to large modern NFL stadiums to benefit from it.


----------



## Zorba

40Acres said:


> did they play by the real rules or the women's rules of Europe basketball. So, you're saying that beating a team with ONE NBA player proves that greek teams belong in the NBA? LOL


Like I said I dont think the teams had 1 NBA player. I just cant name the entire French teams roster off the top of my head.




> Look, in a meaningful game, say something other than PRIDE on the line, the NBA team wins 9/10 games. Say, if a greek team WAS in the NBA and it was playoff game or something ... any team out of the west would blow out a greek team, though the greeks would give the bottom 4 playoff teams of the eastern division a good game. For example, a mediocre team in the weaker East division like the Miluakee Bucks with TJ Ford, Michael Redd, Charlie Bell, Andrew Bogot, Dan Gadzuric, Toni Kukoc, etc would just spank any team from Europe.


Sure, against one of the better NBA teams the best Greek team would lose. There is no way Panathinaikos could beat the Spurs, Cavs, Suns, Heat, etc........ But if they played some non play-off teams in the NBA such as the Blazers, Hawks, BobCats, Raptors etc.... I am sure that a top Greek/top European team could win MEANINGFUL games against those teams. If you put Panathinaikos in the NBA they would win around 15-25 games. That is good enough to be in the league. I never said they would win the NBA Championship or anything like that.



> But face it. The Euro leagues just get all of the NBA rejects. There are a ton of former college stars over there that light up those leagues, but can't make it out of training camp here in the states.


A lot of them can make it in the NBA. Where do you think all the European NBA stars played before they came to the NBA? The European legues have tons of basketball talent. 



> We appreciate your enthusiasm in basketball, really we do, but tap the brake on winning the NBA championship a little bit.


I never said a European team could win the Championship. I never said that they would even make the playofss. But they would compete in the NBA and likely be able to beat most of the crappier teams in the league.


----------



## J-dog

This will help the stadium in stadiums around the world. Right now the stadium needs huge renavations and doing this will help the stadium rank go up alot


----------



## great prairie

> I never said a European team could win the Championship. I never said that they would even make the playofss. But they would compete in the NBA and likely be able to beat most of the crappier teams in the league.



http://www.euroleague.net/stats/statsPartido.jsp?temporada=E05&jornada=22&partido=222

Maccabis most recent game.....
Looking at the Box score I noticed they had three starters from America, I read their short biographies and none of them could make it in the NBA. They also scored 50 of 70 points.... the team they beat had 2 american starters. So you could compete with the Knicks and Bobcats :|


----------



## 40Acres

MoreOrLess said:


> which tends to suggest to me that it isnt so much a lack of interest in soccer/football as it is a lack of interest in the standard of play in the MLS and in events that take place outside the US.



DING DING DING DING DING

give the man a prize for 'getting it'

now there is talk of bringing Ronaldo to Red Bull New York. This is EXACTLY how the NASL failed by bringing in past-their-prime international stars to act indifferent on the pitch.


----------



## Meister2004

*Splash HomeRuns*

I asked me,
The SBC Park in San Francisco is famous because his Splash Home Runs behind the Right Field into the San Francisco Bay.
There are some other waterfront ballparks in the MLB like PNC PArk in Pittsburgh
or Great American Ballpark in Cincinnati.
Are some players in the MLB also able to hit some Splash Home Runs in these Ballparks.

Maybe you have some pictures of those Ballparks.


----------



## 40Acres

que?


----------



## Bigmac1212

There's a pool in Chase Field in Phoenix. There's been some splash downs there.


----------



## ReddAlert

-you could also hit one into the water fountains at Kaufman Stadium in K.C.

-There are also some hot tubs in Miami and Tampa Bay I think in the outfields.


----------



## ReddAlert

40Acres said:


> excellent point.
> 
> Although, all things being equal, the Bucks beat Athens by 20 if they played in the NBA playoffs tonight.


  I like your comments about the Bucks.


----------



## tootshibbard

MoreOrLess said:


> I can't find any actual attendance figures but isnt there normally quite a bit of interest when the big european teams play friendlies in the US? The world cup was very popular aswell which tends to suggest to me that it isnt so much a lack of interest in soccer/football as it is a lack of interest in the standard of play in the MLS and in events that take place outside the US. Unlike most devolping leagues the MLS does have the advantage of a large potential fanbase with lots of disposable income and access to large modern NFL stadiums to benefit from it.



The one thing for soccer/football will need to become big in the U.S. more then anything is for some Americans to become top tier players. If a handfull can be among the better players in the world I think that would progress the sport here.
Even if you transfered the best soccer teams to the U.S. right now I think they would only do marginally well (compared to Europe) untill Americans were seen as being as comeptitive as other top nations in terms of players.
We wouldn't have to be dominant in the sport or even among the best but our top player would have to show they are in the mix.


----------



## 40Acres

*Basketball: USA Allstars vs. World Allstars*

At the Nike Hoops Summit in Memphis

USA-109 vs. World-91

and it wasn't even as close as the score may indicate.

Wayne Ellington is gonna be a baller at University of Kansas ... he had 31 and was 5/6 from 3. University of Texas signee Kevin Durant had 19 i beleive. Both are gonna tear up the Big 12 next year.

Mouhamed Sene from Senegal had 15 points and NINE blocks. Kid was awesome on D. I see that he's almost 20 now ... is he planning on entering the NBA draft?


----------



## Zorba

ReddAlert said:


> I like your comments about the Bucks.


Too bad the Wizards would kick their asses.

_"Now, two seconds left in game 7 of the the 2006 NBA Eastern Confrence semi-finals between the Wizards and Bucks. Game tied at 84. Gilbert Arenas pulls up to shoot the 3.............at the buzzer.........ITS GOOD! WIZARDS WIN! WIZARDS WIN! The Bucks not only lose the game but now have to go back to living in Milwaukee. What a terrible way to end the season."_









:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


----------



## Isaac Newell

I'll bet the USA All Stars had better tattoos as well.


----------



## Iain1974

40Acres said:


> At the Nike Hoops Summit in Memphis
> 
> USA-109 vs. World-91


Can someone familiar with basketball tell us what the rule differences are between NBA and European games?

I'm assuming the number of players and time length is the same but there seems to be some significant differences or is it just in the way games are officiated (interpretation)


----------



## 40Acres

Iain1974 said:


> Can someone familiar with basketball tell us what the rule differences are between NBA and European games?
> 
> I'm assuming the number of players and time length is the same but there seems to be some significant differences or is it just in the way games are officiated (interpretation)


There are a number of different rules, most of them ridiculous in the int'l game:

~The games are shorter, in NBA its 48 mins long, FIBA 40 mins
~The court dimensions are smaller, in NBA 94' x 50', FIBA 91' 10" x 49' 2.5" 
~Size of the lane is curiously larger, in NBA 16' x 19', FIBA 19 ' 8.2" x 19' 0.3" 
~The 3 point line is easier to shoot from, in NBA 23' 9", FIBA 20' 6.1 " 
~Less fouls allowed, in NBA its 6, FIBA 5
~Bonus Free Throws are different, in NBA 1n1 freethrows after 5 fouls, FIBA you get 2 shots
~Goaltending, Not allowed in the NBA, allowed in FIBA

Those rule differences affect the integrity of the sport, the NBA is a MUCH harder game. Why should the US be held to those rules in international competition?


----------



## 40Acres

BURN!


----------



## Zaqattaq

I think the river has been hit from PNC park before


----------



## Skybean

I really believe SBC in San Francisco is my favourite ballpark.


----------



## ReddAlert

edit


----------



## ReddAlert

Zorba said:


> Too bad the Wizards would kick their asses.
> 
> _"Now, two seconds left in game 7 of the the 2006 NBA Eastern Confrence semi-finals between the Wizards and Bucks. Game tied at 84. Gilbert Arenas pulls up to shoot the 3.............at the buzzer.........ITS GOOD! WIZARDS WIN! WIZARDS WIN! The Bucks not only lose the game but now have to go back to living in Milwaukee. What a terrible way to end the season."_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


we will see Zorba. Your futile 1 game lead of the 5th spot is slowly dwindling away! We have just lost 3 straight and still are right on your tail! We still got two games left to face you clowns. 

Oh in the playoffs--you dont get us....you get the Cavs. The Wiz kids are gonna get lit up by Bron' like the Hong Kong skyline.  

And whats the problem with living in Milwaukee? At least they wouldnt have to duck and dodge bullets like Neo in the Matrix either. And if this nuclear exchange happens between the U.S. and Iran---Gilbert Arenas better watch out. He will get evaporated faster than the Nationals winning record last year. Etan Thomas, for not coming to the Bucks a year ago, will get his house taken out like the Redskins in the 2005-06 NFL Playoffs. Caron Butler will come back to the fold in his home in Racine.


----------



## Zorba

ReddAlert said:


> we will see Zorba. Your futile 1 game lead of the 5th spot is slowly dwindling away! We have just lost 3 straight and still are right on your tail! We still got two games left to face you clowns.
> 
> Oh in the playoffs--you dont get us....you get the Cavs. The Wiz kids are gonna get lit up by Bron' like the Hong Kong skyline.
> 
> And whats the problem with living in Milwaukee? At least they wouldnt have to duck and dodge bullets like Neo in the Matrix either. And if this nuclear exchange happens between the U.S. and Iran---Gilbert Arenas better watch out. He will get evaporated faster than the Nationals winning record last year. Etan Thomas, for not coming to the Bucks a year ago, will get his house taken out like the Redskins in the 2005-06 NFL Playoffs. Caron Butler will come back to the fold in his home in Racine.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

That is one of my favorite posts of all time! No joke!

Well we did just lose to Miami tonight. No big deal, we havent beaten them in three years. 

I know that we get the Cavs in the playoffs. That's why I said we would play ou guys in the east semi finals. That probably wont happen either though. I betting that Gibert Arenas is gonna give LeBron a nice little introduction into the NBA playoffs.

As for Baseball you cant really talk about the Nats. They had the same record as the Brewers last year. By the way, congrats on starting 5-0.

Its been just another day in DC for me..............................


----------



## Scba

Adam Dunn is the only guy that can and has gotten a splash at Cincy, when he hit that ridiculous 535 foot homer INTO THE NEXT STATE.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cin/ballpark/longest_hr.jsp 

San Francisco and Pittsburgh are the only parks that have realistic water landings in the MLB right now. I know Norfolk's got it going on in AAA.


----------



## Simon-maly

*Biggest SpeedWay Stadium in the world*

*1. STADION SLASKI in Chorzow 48 000 spec.


















2. OLYMPIC STADIUM in WROCLAW 30 000 spec.


















3. CZESTOCHOWA 25 spec.*​


----------



## matherto

Dominique79 said:


> Cardiff - Wales
> Millenium Stadium


there we go, the largest speedway stadium in the World, and what a great stadium it is too


----------



## XCRunner

BobDaBuilder said:


> ^^^^^^^^^
> 
> FIBA is better.


Yeah right. I'm American and I usually don't like it when we try to impose our will on the rest of the world but this is different, First of all, we invented and pioneered basketball. Second of all, the NBA is by far the biggest and best basketball league in the world. No other league in the world comes close to the competitiveness, excitement, and athleticism seen in the NBA. And compared to FIBA, it is immensly powerful and influental. I don't know why FIBA insists on making those outrageous and foolish rules, but whatever...


----------



## Boards

That is a truly superb world-class facility - and great to see it built at reasonable cost compared to other schemes.


----------



## reluminate

KM1410 said:


> The Indianapolis Motor Speedway is the largest motorsports stadium in the world.


What I was saying was that Bristol is the largest "full" motorsports stadium. Indianapolis is a series of gradnstands. Bristol is one continious bowl.


----------



## Sparks

Boards said:


> That is a truly superb world-class facility - and great to see it built at reasonable cost compared to other schemes.


^^ 25% over budget though.


----------



## Bigmac1212

If you're looking at capacity, Indianpolis Motor Speedway seats 250,000!


----------



## reluminate

^ We already cleared that up. Read the thread.


----------



## Meister2004

Here are the Dimensions

PNC Park:
Right Field:320
Right Center: 375
Center:399

SBC Park:
Right Field:309
Right Center:421
Center:399

Great American Ballpark:
Right Field:325
Center:404


----------



## MoreOrLess

Iain1974 said:


> Well there's also rugby (both codes) that have their loyal following but broadly speaking you're right. Footballs pre-emminence is unchallenged except on rare occasions such as an Ashes tour (cricket) or perhaps rugby union internationals. Even in the 'off-season' football tends to dominate the sports media with transfers and tantrums of star players. Oh and every other year theres a World Cup or European Championship.


Indeed, from that position its hard to get someone into another sport unless it involves their national team/players at a high level. Most of the playing seasons for the major US sports on the other hand are around 6 months arent they? that provides much more oportunity for a new sport to pickup fans.


----------



## HoldenV8

Only used once, that I'll admit. But, Telstra Stadium in Sydney. Capacity, 83,500


----------



## ExSydney

HoldenV8 said:


> Only used once, that I'll admit. But, Telstra Stadium in Sydney. Capacity, 83,500












83,500 capacity


----------



## matherto

I stand corrected...Telstra it is

and can people stop posting the American racetracks, they are speedways, not linked to the actual sport of 'speedway' and its stadiums


----------



## Sikario

I live about 1/2 a mile from my local speedway track. It's not huge but the sound coming from it every other week is insane.


----------



## NFLeuropefan

However, there is always some sport going on during every part of the year, plus football gets a heck of a lot of attention during the offseason. 

Baseball: April-October

Hockey: October-June

Basketball: November-June

Football: September-January, plus a huge offseason.


----------



## CorliCorso

Certainly not the biggest, but I'll take this opportunity to post this old classic, now sadly gone - Hyde Road, Belle Vue's former home.

























http://www.speedwayplus.com/HydeRoad.shtml


----------



## Maccabi

*LARGEST AMERICAN FOOTBALL STADIUM*

Which is the largest?Rose Bowl maybe?


----------



## 40Acres

why dont you just look it up. this has been discussed ad nauseum

Its not the Rose Bowl. Not even close.


----------



## Maccabi

*New Arizona Cardinals Stadium - Glendale, Arizona - 63,000 (2)*











































It is the new Stadium which will be ready for the next season.


----------



## Brent H.

Michigan Stadium, 107,501 

Other 100k+ stadiums include Tennesse's Neyland Stadium, Ohio State's Ohio Stadium, and Penn State's Beaver Stadium.

The planned expansion of Texas's Darrell K Royal Stadium will be over 110,000 people. Also there is talk of holding a few football games on the infield at racetracks like Bristol Motor Speedway in tennessee which has over 160,000 seats and Michigan International Speedway which has 137,243. I dont know how true these rumors are.


----------



## 40Acres

Don't forget college football and basketball

College Football: August - January
College Basketball: November - March


----------



## tootshibbard

I think European sports fans seemed to be more impressed with capacity and size then American fans (at least on this site)? Dunno why that seems to be the case.

For instance Cooke Stadium in DC is the biggest NFL stadium but I think most NFL fans would definatly not give it extra props or put it near their favorite new stadiums in the NFL.


----------



## NFLeuropefan

tootshibbard said:


> I want to Yankee stadium last year during the Cubs-Yanks series and I honestly thought the place was pretty dumpy. It lost most of whatever made it "historic" during the renovations of the 1970's and yet inside it still feels misty and dumpy (far worse then Wrigley does in comparison). Some of the sightlines in the upper deck are really bad as well. I will admitt most of the fins knew their shite though and were into the game.
> 
> The new stadium looks like it will be pretty awesome though (just wish they could have the stadium looking out towards the skyline). If you have great landscapes as you do in New York wouldn't one want to inrocperate them into the ballpark somehow?
> 
> God forbid they ever take down Wrigley I want them to having a ballaprk that faces towards the skyline looking into downtown. If you have such vistas might as well show them off.


I couldn't have said it any better myself. I have the exact same feelings about Yankee Stadium, it's a dump. I'll contradict what I said earlier, I like Fenway the best with Wrigley as a close 2nd. 

Of those I've been to:

1. Fenway Park
2. Wrigley Field
3. Citizens Bank Park
4. At&t Park (Or whatever the hell it's called)
5. Jacobs Field
6. PNC Park
7. Miller Park
8. Comerica Park
9. GABP (Cinncinati)
10. Kauffmann Stadium
11. Camden Yards
12. US Cellular Field
13. Shea Stadium
14. Yankee Stadium
15. Busch Stadium
16. Rogers Centre
17. Dolphins Stadium
18. Metrodome
19. RFK Stadium
20. Montreal Olympic Stadium


----------



## weill

AT&T Park in San Fran, you just gotta be there


----------



## AcesHigh

well, there are a few stadiuns in Europe with 100.000 people capacity. It seems to me that European are better. European stadiums have only SEATS. I mean real individual seats, not those benches you see in most american stadiums. Thats why european stadiums have smaller capacity.

When it comes about stadiums with benches, than MANY south american stadiums beat American stadiums... Maracanã held a crowd of 200.000 people at the 1950 World Cup final.


----------



## NFLeuropefan

Actually, most American Stadiums DON'T have benches. The ones you are thinking of are college stadiums. Most pro sports stadiums are all seaters. We also don't have any terracing.......


----------



## NFLeuropefan

I like the idea, too far from where I live though..........


----------



## OOOOOhhhh BETTY

NFLeuropefan said:


> Actually, most American Stadiums DON'T have benches. The ones you are thinking of are college stadiums. Most pro sports stadiums are all seaters. We also don't have any terracing.......


but most the NFL stadiums are about 70000 capacities. All the 100000 college stadiums use benches.


----------



## OOOOOhhhh BETTY

No stadium in Europe has a 100000 capacity. The closest is Barcelona (ESP) - 98934


----------



## rantanamo

If an exact replica of Wrigley was built, would anyone care? Or is the home of the lovable losers so loved because it is old?


----------



## BrizzyChris

Nice design, but I hate all the parking space around it, what a waste.


----------



## Brent H.

NFL stadiums are all about keeping up to date and having lots of luxury suites rather than capacity, thats why they are higher quality with more convienences, they are usually in urban areas, and have seating instead of benches. Colleges mainly just want to maximize capacity and money is more of a factor for colleges since they build their stadiums on things like donations and private funds. ALso tradition is a big factor with colleges, many stadiums are over 40 years old and rather than build a whole new stadium every 20 years they build on and upgrade their current ones.


----------



## Martuh

OOOOOhhhh BETTY said:


> No stadium in Europe has a 100000 capacity. The closest is Barcelona (ESP) - 98934


We don't use benches,we use seats. When we would use benches, a lot of stadiums easily reach 100,000 to 150,000.

And we have the biggest stadium in the world, and hey! It has benches!

Spartakiádní stadion (Strahov) - Prague
250.000 seats (stadionwelt.de)


----------



## Durbsboi

Hey look Maccabi finally took that BIG bloody signiture out!


----------



## 40Acres

BrizzyChris said:


> Nice design, but I hate all the parking space around it, what a waste.



they'll just _never_ get it.


----------



## _00_deathscar

OOOOOhhhh BETTY said:


> No stadium in Europe has a 100000 capacity. The closest is Barcelona (ESP) - 98934


Isn't the Camp Nou 120 000?

In any case, you don't need to have huge stadiums to create a memorable atmosphere...

Look at Anfield in Liverpool - only seats 45 000, measly by American stadium standards and yet it is a sight to behold (especially during European nights).


----------



## _00_deathscar

Ridiculous suggestion.

The MLS teams would get murdered by the likes of West Bromwich Albion and Sunderland nevermind the likes of Chelsea, Man Utd and Liverpool - and forget even thinking about Barcelona and Milan.


----------



## Karate_Kev

America should get rid of its stupid made up teams, and make soccer teams to work as the same club as the gridiron NFL ones. Washington Redskins soccer team, LA Raiders etc. Then they might have more resources. they could use the same colours, badges etc, increasing their merchandise ability. Europeans might take them a bit more seriously if they'd heard of them before. Mosts europeans have heard of the big gridiron sides. Bit like Real Madrid and Barca have basketball teams


----------



## Loranga

And Europe should get rid of all the commercials on the jerseys.

To heat up the discussion even more, do you think MLS could be the biggest soccer league in the world? The stadiums are there if needed...is the interest there too?


----------



## NFLeuropefan

Cub fans would burn down the city if they took down Wrigley.


----------



## NFLeuropefan

LOL


----------



## NFLeuropefan

No way, it's only the 5th most popular pro sports league in America!!!!


----------



## MexAmericanMoose

that last pic resembles Reliant Stadium


----------



## MexAmericanMoose

NFLeuropefan said:


> No way, it's only the 5th most popular pro sports league in America!!!!



he's right, plus, you got a plethora of college football, and college basketball fans


----------



## NFLeuropefan

It does, I really hope the Vikings build this place, as I'm SICK if watching football indoors at the Metroshithole.......


----------



## NFLeuropefan

Very true.......


----------



## NFLeuropefan

*GREAT IDEA*

What would you think about a yearly Cowboys-Texans game in Austin, similar to the Red River Rivalry.... Each team gets 42,000 tickets to sell, and they split the stadium half and half. The Texas band would play for halftime entertainment....


----------



## _00_deathscar

Football is viewed very much as a sport for poofs there.

Found that particularly strange...seeing as some of this came from ultimate frisbee or track sportsmen....


----------



## Lostboy

Its the mindset.

Football (Soccer) = European. The sort of person who would like Football (Soccer) = Europhiles = Middle Class Flag Burning, *** Loving, Liberals, unpatriotic, Kerry Voting, Abortion Loving Bastards.


----------



## _00_deathscar

Yea and I can see where they get some of that from too (the diving,rolling about whilst frolicking in the grass modern footballers seem to oh-so enjoy doing) but then there are also some thunderous challenges that are seen throughout footie - not to mention those easily mistimed studs in the ankle/knee/shin ... Steven Gerrard (at least formerly) being the culprit of many.










Right into the groin ... two footed .... studs up.


----------



## Telfordboy

CharlieP said:


> Soccer is just one kind of football - there are several other types of football in the world, and ignorant soccer fans posting the same complaint time after time doesn't help matters one little bit.


Well call it Association Football then.


----------



## NFLeuropefan

Lostboy said:


> Its the mindset.
> 
> Football (Soccer) = European. The sort of person who would like Football (Soccer) = Europhiles = Middle Class Flag Burning, *** Loving, Liberals, unpatriotic, Kerry Voting, Abortion Loving Bastards.


Don't you think that goes a bit too far???


----------



## NFLeuropefan

BTW, No one loves abortion.......


----------



## OOOOOhhhh BETTY

_00_deathscar said:


> Ridiculous suggestion.
> 
> The MLS teams would get murdered by the likes of West Bromwich Albion and Sunderland nevermind the likes of Chelsea, Man Utd and Liverpool - and forget even thinking about Barcelona and Milan.


Not by Sunderland.....they're REALLY shit!


----------



## matherto

NFLeuropefan said:


> It's a beauty, ain't it??? I've been to the old Busch, and I can't wait to go to the new one....... While I'm on the topic, what's the best stadium in baseball, in your opinion???


didn't realise theyd built a new stadium, looks cool


----------



## NFLeuropefan

Bump


----------



## MexAmericanMoose

i like the Pittsburgh and San Fran stadiums the most


----------



## Quorn

bump bump sho 'nuff! 

w0rrrrrrd!!!!!!


----------



## Meister2004

I want see pictures of New Busch Stadium


----------



## 40Acres

If houston drafts Vince Young I'm all for it!!

PICK VINCE YOUNG!!

However, there's NO WAY Jerry Jones or Casserly gives up home revenue, but it would be nice to bring some semblance of a tradition back to the No Fun League.


----------



## TexasBoi

Not no, but hell no.


----------



## tocino

It looks just as ugly as Reliant Stadium.


----------



## NFLeuropefan

Tocino=bacon.........


----------



## tocino

NFLeuropefan said:


> Tocino=bacon.........


----------



## NFLeuropefan

LMAO.....

That's awesome...


----------



## NFLeuropefan

Just wondering, was that supposed to be insulting???


----------



## tocino

NFLeuropefan said:


> Just wondering, was that supposed to be insulting???


Depends on your definition of 'insulting'.


----------



## NFLeuropefan

I thought it was hilarious....


----------



## tocino

NFLeuropefan said:


> I thought it was hilarious....


We're all happy then.


----------



## _00_deathscar

I know they are...but then they'd probably hammer the likes of Chicago Fire anyway.


----------



## Jules

I saw a Chicago fire game on TV once. Exciting. :tongue3:


----------



## Iain1974

_00_deathscar said:


> I know they are...but then they'd probably hammer the likes of Chicago Fire anyway.


I'd bet on Chicago. 

I'm looking forward to this season relegation battles as much as the chase at the top. I hope Portsmouth go down along with Sunderland. Plus West Brom I suppose.


----------



## DrJoe

*Stadiums of Major League Baseball (alot of pics)*

The MLB probably has the most varied set of stadiums in the world. They are all very unique. Anyway, on with the pics.


*Ameriquest Field*. Arlington, Texas




















*Angels Stadium*. Anaheim, California




















*AT&T Park*. San Francisco, California




















*Busch Stadium*. St. Louis, Missouri




















*Chase Field*. Phoenix, Arizona




















*Citizens Bank Park*. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania




















*Comerica Park*. Detroit, Michigan




















*Coors Field*. Denver, Colorado




















*Dodger Stadium*. Los Angeles, California




















*Dolphin's Stadium*. Miami, Florida




















*Fenway Park*. Boston, Massachusetts




















*Great American Ball Park*. Cincinnati, Ohio




















*Jacobs Field*. Cleveland, Ohio




















*Kauffman Stadium*. Kansas City, Missouri




















*McAfee Coliseum*. Oakland, California




















*Metrodome*. Minneapolis, Minnesota




















*Miller Park*. Milwaukee, Wisconsin




















*Minute Maid Park*. Houston, Texas




















*Oriole Park at Camden Yards*. Baltimore, Maryland




















*Petco Park*. San Diego, California




















*PNC Park*. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania




















*RFK Stadium*. Washington D.C.




















*Rogers Centre * (Skydome). Toronto, Ontario




















*Safeco Field*. Seattle, Washington




















*Shea Stadium*. NYC, New York




















*Tropicana Field*. St. Petersburg, Florida




















*Turner Field*. Atlanta, Georgia




















*U.S. Cellular Field*. Chicago, Illinois




















*Wrigley Field*. Chicago, Illinois




















*Yankee Stadium*. NYC, New York




















/end


----------



## Zorba

Wow. Great pictures. 

What comes to mind as I look at this, is that most ballparks pretty much have the exact same design besides a few different features. Parks like RFK may not be the best looking, but atleast they have an original design for baseball. 

BTW Why is Comercia park so small compared to all the other ballparks?

My favorite parks are Turner Field, Camden Yards, and Chase Field.

My least favorites are Tropicana Field, Dolphins Stadium, and Kauffman Park.


----------



## BobDaBuilder

Wouldn't you just love to own one of those apartment buildings across the street Wrigley Field in Chicago. You can see the people have built their own little grandstands on the roof to watch the games. 

You just come home from work, slip into your leisure suit, grab a slab of beer from the fridge and go up onto the roof to watch the game live.

Awesome!

p.s. Isn't Kansas City located in the state of Kansas and not in Missouri? Just like Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz?


----------



## Noostairz

DrJoe said:


> *Metrodome*. Minneapolis, Minnesota


^ i'm going there in a few weeks. 

great thread by the way.


----------



## DrJoe

BobDaBuilder said:


> p.s. Isn't Kansas City located in the state of Kansas and not in Missouri? Just like Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz?


There is actually 2 Kansas City's. They sit opposite each other in Missouri and Kansas. The larger of the two is in Missouri along with the stadium


----------



## moxwax

Zorba said:


> My least favorites are Tropicana Field....


I live in Tampa, and the Trop is definitely a shithole, despite the renovations they've been doing. They should tear the entire, outdated complex down (it wasn't even built for baseball...) and build a world class stadium to complement the other 2 we have in Tampa: Raymond James Stadium (american football) and the Forum (ice hockey). Our other 2 sports venues are amazing, and the Rays are stuck in this dump... No wonder they suck so bad


----------



## SDfan

Heres a nice view of what the skyline looks like at Petco. 










And its only going to get better...


----------



## DrJoe

^ Very nice. Petco is one of my favourites.


----------



## th0m

I'll be catching a game at Wrigley Field this summer! Great thread and great stadiums too.


----------



## Lostboy

Thing I like about these stadia is they are in the city centre with a very impressive backdrop, love the ones near the ocean, it makes the sport a part of the city rather than at its periphery. Europe's stadia are more often than not in a suburb somewhere, where the land is cheap. Although interestingly a lot of cricket stadia can be in similarly central locations, guess the bat and ball games have that in common.


----------



## ReddAlert

Lostboy said:


> Thing I like about these stadia is they are in the city centre with a very impressive backdrop, love the ones near the ocean, it makes the sport a part of the city rather than at its periphery. Europe's stadia are more often than not in a suburb somewhere, where the land is cheap. Although interestingly a lot of cricket stadia can be in similarly central locations, guess the bat and ball games have that in common.


Is this why people love the Millenium Dome so much--because of its urban location in Canary Wharf?


----------



## Zorba

ReddAlert said:


> Thats probally true. Some people hate on Milwaukee. Those people are fools though.


Nah, I'm kidding. I like Milwaukee.


----------



## rantanamo

more Miller Park


----------



## nomarandlee

Lostboy said:


> Thing I like about these stadia is they are in the city centre with a very impressive backdrop, love the ones near the ocean, it makes the sport a part of the city rather than at its periphery. Europe's stadia are more often than not in a suburb somewhere, where the land is cheap. Although interestingly a lot of cricket stadia can be in similarly central locations, guess the bat and ball games have that in common.



Part of that is because many stadiums are at least partially funded by local governments. Baseball stadiums are sometimes a way to look at keeping people near downtown and revitalise a neighborhood. 
That and also 81 games a year are played so in some locations the neighbhorhoods often thrive (or at least do well) around the ballparks. 
Also by keeping stadiums closer to downtown it is easier to attrack the after work crowd (many games start at 7pm local time).

In contrast American football games are more found in the suberbs (though with exceptions) partly because only there are only 10 games per year and also tail gating is a big part of the tradition in many locales. Also since games are played in Sunday there is not as much of a need to attract the work crowd to come to a game after 5pm. More and more NFL stadiums have been located to downtown though recently though.


----------



## Zaqattaq

carlspannard said:


> Fenway Park looks particularly cool. I like a bit of old school. Not so mad on the domed and multipurpose ones.The Tropicana stadium in particular looks like a dump.
> All in all though, Professional Baseball stadiums are the coolest bunch of stadiums in the world.


Fenway is the Highbury of baseball


----------



## Boot Wheat

zaqattaq said:


> Fenway is the Highbury of baseball


You mean it's like a library and has no atmosphere?


----------



## Zaqattaq

hahaa no


----------



## nomarandlee

maybe we could get some people to post minor league parks here as well. If any of our Japanese friends want to add their parks that would be a good addition.


----------



## dael318

SDfan said:


> Miller Park is so interesting to look at! Those are very nice pictures Reddalert.


I drive by Miller Park every day and can see it from some of the classrooms in my school, it never ceases to amaze me. The creator of this thread was right in saying that mlb stadiums are the most unique stadiums in the world. The only thing that I dislike about them is the number of ads you will find, from the scoreboards to the outfield wall. I guess the owner just wants to make money anyway he can, and I bet if I were in their shoes I'd be trying to find way to get more money out of the stadium too so I can't fault them.


----------



## dave8721

Now if only we had a real Baseball stadium in Miami, or real owners


----------



## ReddAlert

I like that first picture of Miller Park, rantanamo.


----------



## tmac14wr

Boot Wheat said:


> You mean it's like a library and has no atmosphere?


Whaattt? We got a Yankess fan here! Fenway is the best...can't get enough of it (can't get tickets either unless you wanna drop some dough). 

Someone said earlier made the implication that New Yorkers are only fair-weather fans...however I'll definitely have to disagree. I used to think the same way, basically out of pure hate for the Yankees, but I can definitely say with confidence that New Yorkers are Yankee fans through and through.

Quorn: It's one way to talk like an idiot, but why be so dumb that you even type that way?


----------



## Zaqattaq

tmac14wr said:


> Whaattt? We got a Yankess fan here! Fenway is the best...can't get enough of it (can't get tickets either unless you wanna drop some dough).
> 
> Someone said earlier made the implication that New Yorkers are only fair-weather fans...however I'll definitely have to disagree. I used to think the same way, basically out of pure hate for the Yankees, but I can definitely say with confidence that New Yorkers are Yankee fans through and through.
> 
> Quorn: It's one way to talk like an idiot, but why be so dumb that you even type that way?


No you have no idea what he is talking about, he was referring to an English football ground.


----------



## dave8721

tmac14wr said:


> Whaattt? We got a Yankess fan here! Fenway is the best...can't get enough of it (can't get tickets either unless you wanna drop some dough).
> 
> Someone said earlier made the implication that New Yorkers are only fair-weather fans...however I'll definitely have to disagree. I used to think the same way, basically out of pure hate for the Yankees, but I can definitely say with confidence that New Yorkers are Yankee fans through and through.
> 
> Quorn: It's one way to talk like an idiot, but why be so dumb that you even type that way?


You should have seen the attendance at Yankee games in the late 80's or early 90's. I went to a game against the White Sox in 1992 in Yankee Stadium where the attendance was probably about 8,000.


----------



## nomarandlee

dave8721 said:


> You should have seen the attendance at Yankee games in the late 80's or early 90's. I went to a game against the White Sox in 1992 in Yankee Stadium where the attendance was probably about 8,000.



Thats true. At least around New York I think in general most know their baseball yet they are spoiled, fickle, and narcissistic (they actually will try to make you beleive that economics of baseball is good as is).

Many of the fans outside of New York are into the Yanks because of the cache of the city(nothing wrong with that) or because some like to adopt front runners (which the Yanks dependably are).


----------



## ReddAlert

yeah, you tend to see the true fans when a team is doing badly. In Milwaukee....we had to put up with a godawful Brewers team for years. Now we are good. All kinds of people are coming out of the woodwork and claming the Brewers will be playoff bound. Where these people were 5 years ago is beyond me? Surely not at County Stadium or Miller Park the first few years.


----------



## Liam-Manchester

I really liked Wrigley Field when I went to see a game there last summer. It has a lot of character and is more than just a stadium like many of the venues in the pictures.


----------



## NFLeuropefan

Yes, very true. Even as a football fan, Wrigley field is like the Garden of Eden,
it's a shrine to baseball...


----------



## Lostboy

*Do Americans consider the NHL to be a major league?*

I've read somewhere that some Americans only regard the traditional three American Sports Leagues as being major national competitions, whereas Canadians almost universally regard the NHL as a major competition? 

How do most Americans see it?


----------



## NFLeuropefan

Guy Legend said:


> Of course hockey is considered part of the "big four".
> 
> I won't go into a great deal of specifics, but NHL attendance numbers will hit a new record this year. With the rule changes opening up the game and increasing the offense, we have a game now that more people than ever can enjoy.
> 
> Problem with hockey is that most of the fans are within in the cities of their respective teams and are probably lose interest once their team is eliminated. Again however, with a more exciting product, I'm sure that people will be more apt to watch.
> 
> Hockey has indeed spread into the US. You will see a record number of top 10 draft picks be Americans (including #1 Johnson).


True, but odds are this is a one year binge, most of the country still would not consider the NHL to be a big four league........


----------



## Nameless

I think it depends where you go in the US. Some markets like Detroit and Minnesota are hockey crazy while here in Phoenix the Coyotes are hardly talked about.


----------



## NFLeuropefan

Minnesota, hockey crazy.......... :hahaha:


----------



## Jules

NFLeuropefan said:


> Minnesota, hockey crazy.......... :hahaha:


I belive Minnesota is one of the bigger hockey states...


----------



## NFLeuropefan

You're right, there is somewhat of a following here, but in reality, hockey not on the level of basketball, football, baseball, and quite honestly even soccer will probably surpass it very soon.......


----------



## Nameless

Awesome thread.


----------



## Ze Englander Swine!!

*USA 94 World Cup*

Despite some questionable choices when it came to stadiums, my research has lead me to conclude that the USA had by far the highest average attendances for any World Cup, with some amazing 90000+ attendances for games that would struggle to get 30000 if they were held in a European country! Just look below -

Cameroon 2 - 2 Sweden - 93194
Colombia 1 - 3 Romania - 91586
Romania 3 - 2 Argentina - 90469
Sweden 0 - 1 Brazil - 91856
Sweden 4 - 0 Bulgaria - 91500
Italy 0 - 0 Brazil - 94194
USA 2 - 1 Colombia - 93689 
USA 0 - 1 Romania - 93869

The overall average attendance per match was 68991. So despite football (soccer) not even being in the top 4 sports in the USA, the USA still manages to do a big jobby on Europe!!! Makes you think! 

Not one of the better World Cups for football quality (not the fault of the USA), but I still loved it as it was a great country to explore for a month. I hope the USA holds it again sometime soonish (before I die), as the new stadiums will make it even better.


----------



## vivayo

the only reason of that averages is because USA 94 got also by far the biggest capacities,, I'm mean germany had 3.5 million tickets for all the tournament, and only in the first of 5 rounds of ticket sales, it recived 6 million purchace claiming more than 12 million tickets,,,,,, the tickets were sold on a lottery basis,,,,,,,,

in this world cup we will have a average per game of about 45- 50,000, but that is because there is no more seats.....

I personally attended to the Camerron vs Sweden and Colombia vs Romania games at the Rose Bowl, which was the biggest stadium used,,,,

the smalles one was JFK Stadium in Washington,, and at the moment the capacity was 55,000,,,, in Germany 2006 only 3 stadiums will have more than 55 K.....


----------



## Its AlL gUUd

TBH USA 94 (AKA The coca cola world cup) was one of the most crappest world cups ever, it felt very 'fake'. Diana Ross for a penalty anyone? :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## Ze Englander Swine!!

Bollocks!! Colombia v Romania would be lucky to get 45000 in Germany, let alone 90000. Russia v Cameroon in the USA got 74914, in Germany it would be about 35000. In France 98, many games were around the 30000 mark will lots of unsold tickets!! Same goes for Italia 90 and Mexico 86. Some of the Mexico stadium averages were as low as 14867, which is truly shocking!!!

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/archive/avewc.htm

If German stadiums were the same capacity as the USA ones, the average would still be far lower. There is not a hope in hell that Cameroon v Sweden would get a crowd of 93194 in Germany.


----------



## mrtocsin

Also remember the USA is far more popolous than any one European country so they have more large stadia to host games.

If the European Union held the World Cup, I know it would not happen, I think these would be the stadiums that might be chosen.

Camp Nou, Barcelona - 98934
Wembley, London - 90000
Giuseppe Meazza, Milan - 85700
Stadio Olimpico, Rome - 82307
Bernabeu, Madrid - 80354
Stade De France, Paris - 79959
Olympiastadion, Berlin - 76065
Old Trafford, Manchester - 76000
Olympic Stadium, Athens - 74443
Allianz Arena, Munich - 69901
Estadio Da Luz, Lisbon - 65647


----------



## Ze Englander Swine!!

Its AlL gUUd said:


> TBH USA 94 (AKA The coca cola world cup) was one of the most crappest world cups ever, it felt very 'fake'. Diana Ross for a penalty anyone? :rofl: :rofl:



hhmmm, I wonder why you didn't like it?? hhmmmm, I wonder???

Germany 74 and Argentina 78 will also not be very high on your list I presume!! So predictable....so predictable!!


Anyway, we are talking about attendances, not quality of football. The USA can't exactly force players to play better! I have been to 3 World Cups (soon to be 4), and in terms of enjoying my trip, the USA has been by far the best. Easily the best country to travel around out of the 3 World Cups I have been to. Japan/Korea would of been good i'm sure, but I couldn't make that one.


----------



## Ze Englander Swine!!

Cameroon v Sweden in any European country outside of Sweden would not get close to 93194, not even close!!


----------



## tv123

whats the point of the thread? another usa vs rest of the world crap?


----------



## Ze Englander Swine!!

No, just pointing out some amazing USA attendances for soccer.

Cameroon v Sweden - 93194 - AMAZING!!


----------



## Disraeli

Ze Englander Swine!! said:


> No, just pointing out some amazing USA attendances for soccer.
> 
> Cameroon v Sweden - 93194 - AMAZING!!


In the crowd that day would have been a couple of Swedes and Cameroonians(sp) plus other neutals so its not like the ground was full of Americans.


----------



## Its AlL gUUd

Ze Englander Swine!! said:


> hhmmm, I wonder why you didn't like it?? hhmmmm, I wonder???
> 
> Germany 74 and Argentina 78 will also not be very high on your list I presume!! So predictable....so predictable!!
> 
> 
> Anyway, we are talking about attendances, not quality of football. The USA can't exactly force players to play better! I have been to 3 World Cups (soon to be 4), and in terms of enjoying my trip, the USA has been by far the best. Easily the best country to travel around out of the 3 World Cups I have been to. Japan/Korea would of been good i'm sure, but I couldn't make that one.


ur making assumptions there


----------



## Ze Englander Swine!!

Disraeli said:


> In the crowd that day would have been a couple of Swedes and Cameroonians(sp) plus other neutals so its not like the ground was full of Americans.


I would be willing to bet that at least 80% of that crowd was Americans. Only 23 Cameroonians had the money to go to USA 94!!


----------



## mrtocsin

No offence but I'm sure most of the Yanks that went to the game only went to see what the fuss was about. It was something new for them.

I'm sure if they get the World Cup again, only two men and a dog will turn up for most games.


----------



## tv123

mrtocsin said:


> No offence but I'm sure most of the Yanks that went to the game only went to see what the fuss was about. It was something new for them.
> 
> I'm sure if they get the World Cup again, only two men and a dog will turn up for most games.


+23 cameroonians


----------



## Ze Englander Swine!!

Why is that Wiggey field rated so highly?? Is it because of its history? because as an actual stadium construction taken on its own, it doesn't look at all special!!


----------



## Ze Englander Swine!!




----------



## GNU

^^ Churchill ordering two beers?


----------



## rantanamo

We all know its not the newest and most hi-tech.

History, context in its neighborhood, atmosphere and unique features are part of why people love it.


----------



## Madman

I'd like to point out to any forumers new to these threads that Ze Englander Swine is actually a Scot, and a bitter one at that.


----------



## Ze Englander Swine!!

Why would my nationality be relevant?? If i am Scottish, English, Welsh, Dutch etc, what has that got to do with anything???

Sounds to me like you are racist against Scots.


----------



## nomarandlee

Ze Englander Swine!! said:


> Why is that Wiggey field rated so highly?? Is it because of its history? because as an actual stadium construction taken on its own, it doesn't look at all special!!


Six (or more) good reason why Wrigley is held in high esteem. And if you are a Cards/Chi-Sox fan no retort need apply!!!!!!  

1. it is the essence of a neighborhood ballpark. It ties into the surrounding character and neighborhood (one of the better Chicago has in terms of fun, nightlife, and atmosphere) seamlessly. Not to mention during broadcast you can at many times get views of the neighborhood and surroundings while just watching the game. 

You take the neighborhood and Wrigley away from one or vice versa both are irrevocably changed. Both are so intertwined and grew in coordination and mutually that they are inseparable.


2. It was by FAR the last to install lights (1988 I believe). For many they grew up watching Cubs baseball games after school in the summertime even outside of Chicago (since WGN is broadcast in many areas of the U.S. outside of Chicago unlike other teams). Still most of their games are played during the day unlike most teams. 

3. The bricks and ivy on the outfield walls is very unique even for baseball stadiums. The ivy and the "Green monster" in Fenway are probably the two most unique and iconic features of any baseball park in the country.

4. It is not overrun by skyboxes, huge jumbo TV screens, minimal advertising, or loud PA audio systems. It is all about the baseball at Wrigley (and the beer and hot girls too, which doesn't hurt its cause).

5. Great Elevated train station right by. Bars galore. Very few ugly parking lots. Hot girls. Baseball in the sun. The marquee in the front of the stadium.  Traditions like throwing back opponents home runs. The quirky and confined parameters of the field and the stadium. The intimacy and closeness of the seats to the field. 

6. 1914....The year that a high power gave Chicago and fans the great gift which is Wrigley to come stay in its Friendly Confines for a multitudes of generations to come.


It is hard to to point a finger on what is "American" but more then most others Wrigley is 100% Norman Rockwell Americana. It is as "American" as the Grand Canyon, ESB, Chevy, or Times Square.


----------



## al74

usa 94 was the worst world cup I ever seen, ....


----------



## Goofy

al74 said:


> usa 94 was the worst world cup I ever seen, ....


Correct. It was apalling.


----------



## nomarandlee

I think we could use another round of pictures. Anywhere from concourses, surrounding neighborhoods/stadium enviroments. etc...


----------



## Its AlL gUUd

Can i Just point out 'Ze Englander Swine' previously (infamously) known as Bubomb is a Scot who hates anything English (and now Germany for some reason) and has been banned several times for trolling and causing alot of trouble on these forums. I can't remember how many different names you have had, bubomb. 

Funny thing is Bubomb u don't realise that if you don't want to get banned over and over again, act like a decent human being, that is if you are one in the first place.


----------



## Its AlL gUUd

Goofy said:


> Correct. It was apalling.


I agree totally


----------



## nomarandlee

Its AlL gUUd said:


> sorry but USA's ranking of 4th makes me very suspicious of FiFA's intentions



me too, and I'm American!!! Still, I think if FIFA really wants to shove the sport down the throat of Americans given them a totally undeserved ranking would be a lame and inefficant way to do it. 98% of Americans would have no idea if the U.S. was rated 4th or 50th in the FIFA world rankings.


----------



## Goofy

nomarandlee said:


> I think we could use another round of pictures. Anywhere from concourses, surrounding neighborhoods/stadium enviroments. etc...


Here you go, some superb pics taken by me last night.























































They're a bit big but I can't be arsed resizing them.


----------



## Goofy

nomarandlee said:


> me too, and I'm American!!! Still, I think if FIFA really wants to shove the sport down the throat of Americans given them a totally undeserved ranking would be a lame and inefficant way to do it. 98% of Americans would have no idea if the U.S. was rated 4th or 50th in the FIFA world rankings.


To be fair, 98% of Americans would have no idea about pretty much anything.


----------



## Goofy

Couple more


----------



## nomarandlee

Goofy said:


> To be fair, 98% of Americans would have no idea about pretty much anything.



hahahaha, good one bigot. Trite American bashing, how original. :weirdo:


----------



## Ze Englander Swine!!

Its AlL gUUd said:


> Can i Just point out 'Ze Englander Swine' previously (infamously) known as Bubomb is a Scot who hates anything English (and now Germany for some reason) and has been banned several times for trolling and causing alot of trouble on these forums. I can't remember how many different names you have had, bubomb.
> 
> Funny thing is Bubomb u don't realise that if you don't want to get banned over and over again, act like a decent human being, that is if you are one in the first place.


Why do you keep on constantly pointing out that Bubomb was Scottish??? What have you got against Scots??? Do you think Bubomb represents 5 million Scots???

Are you trying to say that there are no English idiots in England??? Are you seriously saying all 50 million people in England are great guys? I've met plenty of English people who hate Scotland/Scots (hundreds of them attacked Scottish women and children at a Scotland v England game in Glasgow a few years ago). If Bubomb was English, you wouldn't point out his nationality, you wouldn't call him an 'English' idiot, you would simply call him an idiot, so why do you constantly call him a 'Scottish' idiot??

You wouldn't call a black guy a 'black idiot', you wouldn't call a Chinese guy a 'Chinese idiot' and you wouldn't call an English guy an 'English idiot', so stop call somebody from a Scotland a 'Scottish idiot'!!

I think you are an idiot, but it doesn't matter that you are English, all that matters is that you are an idiot.


----------



## Ze Englander Swine!!

Times Square didn't seem very American to me!! It wasn't even square. Just some busy streets, shops and a big Toys R Us, nothing special! New York is superb, but Times Square is no big deal.


----------



## Socrates

USA94 is the World Cup I have the fondest memories of.


----------



## yure323

Its AlL gUUd said:


> This what i like to see, if the North Americans are serious about football, they should be building these stadia, instead of playing them in NFL stadia which is like a kick in the teeth for the sport of football. kay:


and I didn't post all of the stadiums, there's also a stadium opening in Atlanta this year : http://www.atlantasilverbacks.com/pro/stadium.php
A stadium is going to be built in Montreal, but they haven't decided where to build it yet, it looks like Washington,DC and Kansas City will soon get a soccer stadium, Houston Dynamo from MLS doesn't have plans to build a stadium but I'm certain they'll build one in the near future, the only team in MLS that isn't going to build a soccer specific stadium is the New England Revolution, but that's because their owner Kraft owns Gillette stadium ( 67.000 ) and already keeps all the revenue and doesn't pay rent.
Also any expansion city must have a SSS if it wants a team in MLS, next year MLS will expand to Toronto, and in 2008 probably to Cleveland ( maybe St.Louis or Millwaukee ).


----------



## Martuh

NFLeuropefan said:


> Problem is, the capacity of these stadiums are so small, what do you do for big games????


There's probably a big football stadium in the States somewhere around.


----------



## yure323

NFLeuropefan said:


> Problem is, the capacity of these stadiums are so small, what do you do for big games????


They're building small for better atmosphere,stadiums this size are perfect for concerts and it creates demand. As for the big games, they can be played in Football stadiums like last year's LA Galaxy - Chivas USA game at the LA Coliseum ( it was a America - Chivas doubleheader, attendance 88.000 )


----------



## Scba

NFLeuropefan said:


> Problem is, the capacity of these stadiums are so small, what do you do for big games????


For truly big events, they can just go to one of our football stadiums.

20,000 is a nice size for an MLS team, you aren't going to draw too much more than that any time soon.


----------



## Zaqattaq

NFLeuropefan said:


> Problem is, the capacity of these stadiums are so small, what do you do for big games????


The MLS has no big games


The only one you could fill a large stadium for is the Los Angeles Derby between Galaxy and Chivas USA. 

What the MLS needs to do to become a real football league:

1. Abandon the Final, however it may not appeal to Americans the league title should be awarded to the highest point total like any other league.

2. An MLS CUP (FA Cup style including the USL teams)

3. Relegation and promotion between MLS and USL (like the point system this probably wouldn't work for Americans)

4. Get rid of the draft

5. Allow transfers for money instead of trades

6. No salary cap

7. Market better to Latinos

8. Include Canada

9. Gain 50 years of club heritage 

10. US win the World Cup (will happen in the next 100 years)

11. Get proper football club names

12. Proper football kits

13. Freddy Adu actually gets good


----------



## yure323

Scba said:


> For truly big events, they can just go to one of our football stadiums.
> 
> 20,000 is a nice size for an MLS team, you aren't going to draw too much more than that any time soon.


Yeah, and they're all going to be expandable to around 30,000 ( i know HDC from LA can be expandable to 35.000 quite easily ).


----------



## utrecht

Netherlands: 

51.000 - ArenA - Built in *1996*: 









26.000 - Abe Lenstra Stadion - Rebuilt *2004-2006* 









26.000 - Gelredome - Built in *1998* 









25.000 - Galgenwaard - Rebuilt *2003-2005*









22.000 - Euroborg - Built in *2006*









20.000 - Parkstad - Built in *2000*









But there's more: 
MyCom Stadion - 17.000 (capacity)- 1996
Willem II Stadion - 15.000 - 1996
Arke Stadion - 15.000 - 1998 

Future: 
ADO Den Haag - 20.000 (year 2008?) 
AZ - 15.000 (2006) 

It's unbelievable, but in the last ten years in the Netherlanders are built at least 15 new stadiums in the highest football league!!!


----------



## Breakwood

utrecht said:


> Netherlands:
> 
> It's unbelievable, but in the last ten years in the Netherlanders are built at least 15 new stadiums in the highest football league!!!


And this has to do with North America how?


----------



## Its AlL gUUd

I know why put those Dutch stadiums on here?


----------



## teunster

utrecht said:


> ... *snap* ...


You're either extremely dumb, or very chauvinistic..
Or perhaps even both.

:sleepy:


----------



## Iggybumtastic

What is this Dutch mincer playing at??? Piss off horse-porn lover, shouldn't you be running away from a German? 

This thread is for the best country in the World - The United States Of America!!


----------



## great prairie

> Whilst the game is still regarded as a carrier of liberalism, homosexuality and potentially a threat to their Republic and Constitution by many of the older Americans


rofl, if David Beckham wasn't so light in his loafers this wouldn't a be a problem 


edit: oh god I just realized you claimed it would hurt our CONSTITUTION.....LAY DOWN THE CRACK PIPE


----------



## Quintana

Spotting Bubomb isn't even remotely funny anymore...


----------



## Iggybumtastic

David Beckham - total SHIT STABBER!!


----------



## yure323

zaqattaq said:


> The MLS has no big games
> 
> 
> The only one you could fill a large stadium for is the Los Angeles Derby between Galaxy and Chivas USA.
> 
> What the MLS needs to do to become a real football league:
> 
> 1. Abandon the Final, however it may not appeal to Americans the league title should be awarded to the highest point total like any other league.
> 
> 2. An MLS CUP (FA Cup style including the USL teams)
> 
> 3. Relegation and promotion between MLS and USL (like the point system this probably wouldn't work for Americans)
> 
> 4. Get rid of the draft
> 
> 5. Allow transfers for money instead of trades
> 
> 6. No salary cap
> 
> 7. Market better to Latinos
> 
> 8. Include Canada
> 
> 9. Gain 50 years of club heritage
> 
> 10. US win the World Cup (will happen in the next 100 years)
> 
> 11. Get proper football club names
> 
> 12. Proper football kits
> 
> 13. Freddy Adu actually gets good


1. wouldn't work, because everything besides first place would be meaningless in Europe they fight against relegation and for spots in european competitions.
2. Ever heard of the US Open Cup ? http://www.usopencup.com/History/index_E.html
3. MLS is a single entity , USL's teams are individualy owned , pro/rel is not gonna happen in the near future if ever ( unless when MLS reaches its goal of 18 teams, and then create a MLS-2 ) 
4. The commisioner of MLS said that they will always keep the draft, although teams will be encouraged to build their own youth acadamies and they will get to keep the players that come out of their youth acadamies. 
5. MLS is a single entity, players have a contract with MLS, they just allocated to a team. Single entity has kept this league afloat for 10 years.
6. There's no real salary cap, it's more of a "salary suggestion", because only 5 teams are under the "salary cap", and the highest salary for a MLS player is 300.000, but Palencia,Donovan,Adu and a few others are payed much more.
7. Chivas USA is basicly a mexican team in LA , 40% of MLS' fanbase is hispanic, starting next year MLS will be televised on Univision again ( it was on Univision 1996-2000 ).
8. Toronto will be in MLS next year.
9. gonna take time...
10. it doesn't really matter IMO
11. MLS does have some crappy names like ( Real Salt Lake ) but there are also some good ones
12. Does a "proper" football jersey got to have a sponsor on the front ?


----------



## NEWWORLD

nice looking stadiums


----------



## You are to blame

Here is a more recent render of toronto's stadium which is well under construction and opens in 2007 for Canada's first MLS team and the U-23 World Championships.










and here is Atlanta's stadium, 1st phase opens in june


----------



## ASupertall4SD

sorry all, but a salary cap is the best idea sports has ever thought of. Parity is importnat. Having Serie dominant clubs like Jue and Inter and AC Milan is fine and dandy, but not fair for everyone else. It is the same teams each and every year, and that is boring. 

Serie B has decided to use a salary cap next year for the first time ever, and smaller clubs and italians all over are rejoicing. IT NEEDS to happen. My friend in Naples is excited because it means teams are judged on the ability to form a team rather than spend the money.


----------



## DrJoe

You are to blame said:


> Here is a more recent render of toronto's stadium which is well under construction and opens in 2007 for Canada's first MLS team and the U-23 World Championships.


This thing is going to be such a piece of junk. It's basically 2 grandstands and nothing else.


----------



## yure323

DrJoe said:


> This thing is going to be such a piece of junk. It's basically 2 grandstands and nothing else.


That's because the U-23 World Championship starts in June 2007 and it has to be finished by then, and the owners Maple Leafs Sports & Entertainment aren't spending a lot of money for the stadium.


----------



## Brent H.

great prairie said:


> I agree the NFL has a hard cap and parity is one of the things makes the league so popular. Out of 32 teams it is very to pick out who will be the worst or best next year..... The only downside is once a veteran player has his contract run out sometimes a team can't find room for him. A good example is Willie McGinest with the Patriots who is a 12 year veteran(all with patriots) and has been an all-star several times, he was also a fan favorite. He was a key player on 3 super bowl teams. They couldn't even offer him a contract because they needed to make room for younger players and with his age he was no longer in his "prime".


Under the American system of franchises and no relegation, caps are a must, not only to keep teams from over spending and dominating, but more importantly to keep teams from underspending. I know there have been complaints from the Buffalo Bills owner about the salary cap, largely due to the fact that having a cap means theres a floor as well. He wants to spend less money than the current floor.

They either have to have a cap like the NFL or relegation like club soccer, if theres something in between (like MLB) it wont work.

Basically the franchise system insures that the teams make money, they all split the TV money, they have revenue sharing and other such things. In MLB certain owners can make a profit using the tv revenues, sponsorships, and corporate suites, even if no one shows up to the games or buys their stuff, they dont care. Heck if the reported figures are accurate the Pirates and Devil Rays make more profit than the Yankees and Red Sox. MLB's system almost discourages winning. If they had the relegation system, the Devil Rays and the Royals and teams like that would actually have some sense of urgency and some desire to finish better than last place! A cap would make them feel like they could be competitive and once again discourage losing.

The Yankees do make me sick with their overspending, but teams like the Pirates make me equally as sick. The owners built PNC Park with taxpayer money and yet they refuse to pay for some decent players.


----------



## Quintana

1-3-2


----------



## chester84

definately #2


----------



## Lostboy

_I didn't realise how much americans hate Europeans. is this true or just you?_

Anyone using the term muppets, I'm guessing is a European. Furthermore they are an English Speaking European. I'm willing to stick my neck out that they are not from Cyprus, Malta, Gibraltar, Jersey, Guernsey or Mann, from numbers alone. Irish People tend not to be that stupid. And if I had to hazard a guess from a country within Britain then I'll really stick my neck out and say Scotland.


----------



## teunster

Iggybumtastic said:


> What is this Dutch mincer playing at??? Piss off horse-porn lover, shouldn't you be running away from a German?
> 
> This thread is for the best country in the World - The United States Of America!!


 :cheers:


----------



## Zaqattaq

Brent H. said:



> Under the American system of franchises and no relegation, caps are a must, not only to keep teams from over spending and dominating, but more importantly to keep teams from underspending. I know there have been complaints from the Buffalo Bills owner about the salary cap, largely due to the fact that having a cap means theres a floor as well. He wants to spend less money than the current floor.
> 
> They either have to have a cap like the NFL or relegation like club soccer, if theres something in between (like MLB) it wont work.
> 
> Basically the franchise system insures that the teams make money, they all split the TV money, they have revenue sharing and other such things. In MLB certain owners can make a profit using the tv revenues, sponsorships, and corporate suites, even if no one shows up to the games or buys their stuff, they dont care. Heck if the reported figures are accurate the Pirates and Devil Rays make more profit than the Yankees and Red Sox. MLB's system almost discourages winning. If they had the relegation system, the Devil Rays and the Royals and teams like that would actually have some sense of urgency and some desire to finish better than last place! A cap would make them feel like they could be competitive and once again discourage losing.
> 
> The Yankees do make me sick with their overspending, but teams like the Pirates make me equally as sick. The owners built PNC Park with taxpayer money and yet they refuse to pay for some decent players.


Amen


----------



## 2zanzibar

ASupertall4SD said:


> sorry all, but a salary cap is the best idea sports has ever thought of. Parity is importnat. Having Serie dominant clubs like Jue and Inter and AC Milan is fine and dandy, but not fair for everyone else. It is the same teams each and every year, and that is boring.
> 
> Serie B has decided to use a salary cap next year for the first time ever, and smaller clubs and italians all over are rejoicing. IT NEEDS to happen. My friend in Naples is excited because it means teams are judged on the ability to form a team rather than spend the money.


Well done Serie B!!


----------



## Iain1974

2zanzibar said:


> Well done Serie B!!


I'm not a fan of salary caps but in the US sports where relegation doesn't happen they make sense.


----------



## Scba

I really like how 'open' all of them are. Some Euro stadiums just seem cavernous, even if they have smaller capacities.


----------



## jmancuso

this thread is shit. :sleepy:


----------



## hngcm

You are to blame said:


> Toronto joins the league in 2007 as the 13th team
> 
> St louis and/or Cleveland will join in 2008, a philidelphia area team in 2009.


Is that a done deal?


----------



## alesmarv

Vancouvers proposed soccer specific stadium to be built by 2009. This stadium would be built next to the end stations of two metro lines, a pasenger train station and a sea bus terminal, aperently it would be one of the worlds most public transit friendly stadiums. It would initialy have a capacity of 15,000 which would be expadabel to 30,000.


----------



## Lostboy

Do you think a more spectacular backdrop is possible for a stadium?


----------



## Reptilikus

*American Football stadiums without roof?*

I allways wonder why there doesn't seem to be a tradition to put roofs over the spectators on Football stadiums i America. 
More new stadiums i now build with retractable roofs, while other still is build with very little or no roof at all! 

Doesn't the Americans care if it rains or is it just to expensive?

Gillette Stadium 2002









INVESCO Field at Mile High 2001









Lincoln Financial Field 2003









European stadiums with roof over the spectators

Stade de France 1998









Olympiastadion Berlin 2005









Estádio da Luz (Lisbon) 2003


----------



## Lostboy

It just comes from a different sporting tradition in a different climate. Also it seems that its more common for American Football Games to be played in daylight rather than as is common across Europe to have many games played in the evening. Additionally there are some teams in Europe with a similar climate to Southern America like Spain and Italy which don't play under full roofs.

Americans are rather sensitive about any topic which appears to be criticising them, and while far from being an Americophile or an Atlanticist, I can quite understand, Europeans often tend to be both rather unkind and ignorant of American Sports, in a way that Americans just aren't of European Based Sports.


----------



## eddyk

Rantanamo is going to love this thread for sure.


----------



## Noostairz

the design of those nfl stadiums certainly does expose the crowd to the elements, but isn't that what outdoor winter sports are all about - getting wrapped up warm and braving the elements to watch two teams battle it out come rain or shine.

over here we seem to call games off even if there's the slightest bit of snow, although it never used to be like that. in new england even where there's no roof and it's a blizzard outside the show must go on! admirable stuff!


----------



## rantanamo

All I will say is that we have better weather than European countries that have lots of roof(notice Spain doesn't have a lot of roof). At the same time, I'd say our weather is a bit more extreme as well as the uses of our stadiums being different. You can also use the nature of baseball as well. If it rains enough that a roof is needed, a baseball game is cancelled. Therefore, the question is why would it be needed?

questions for the original poster:

1.) Why are roofs considered to be so expensive by the original poster? If you look at the cost of the stadiums, the American stadiums are very comparable or more expensive in many cases? This might suggest that many luxuries and/or design cues are left out of their roofed counterparts just for the roof. So why do that if you're playing in Florida(the sunshine state) Also, look at Forbes list of the most valuable franchises. The NFL franchises are pretty damned valuable on average compared to any other sport. Affordability isn't the question.

2.) If roofs are that important to non American Football, then why not go the extra step that many NFL(and MLB) franchises are going and create full retractable roofs, that can close to the amount the team desires for a given match? Why does the U.S. have a number of retractables that is comparable to all of those in the rest of the world? Or even just have indoor stadiums like in the U.S.(which also has a comparable number to the rest of the world combined. This is generally how places with inclement weather on a regular basis are dealt with(the acception being Texas Stadium, which was engineered to be retractable in 1971 and Qwest, which is roofed and probably the most similar in climate to England)

3.) Why is there never a criticism of the Japanese tendency of playing indoors? I know why they do, but do you?

4.) If Americans are sensitive, its because of the repeated waves of European(mainly British as the roof is not necessarily European) posters asking the same questions, making criticisms based on how their stadiums have to be built based on their sports and climates, and the continuous criticism from those same posters trying to discredit our sports. We've heard it all before. I've been reading this board for maybe 2 years now. The same posts come up maybe 3 times a year by a new poster. At least there hasn't been an EU vs USA stadium post lately. Probably because the moderators don't tolerate them anymore.

5.) Does a roof stop the cold? For Soldier Field, Philly, New England or Invesco to add a European style roof, it would have to stop the cold. Otherwise you just dome it like Detroit or Minnesota.


----------



## rantanamo

yes, lol


----------



## Reptilikus

rantanamo said:


> All I will say is that we have better weather than European countries that have lots of roof(notice Spain doesn't have a lot of roof). At the same time, I'd say our weather is a bit more extreme as well as the uses of our stadiums being different. You can also use the nature of baseball as well. If it rains enough that a roof is needed, a baseball game is cancelled. Therefore, the question is why would it be needed?
> 
> questions for the original poster:
> 
> 1.) Why are roofs considered to be so expensive by the original poster? If you look at the cost of the stadiums, the American stadiums are very comparable or more expensive in many cases? This might suggest that many luxuries and/or design cues are left out of their roofed counterparts just for the roof. So why do that if you're playing in Florida(the sunshine state) Also, look at Forbes list of the most valuable franchises. The NFL franchises are pretty damned valuable on average compared to any other sport. Affordability isn't the question.
> 
> 2.) If roofs are that important to non American Football, then why not go the extra step that many NFL(and MLB) franchises are going and create full retractable roofs, that can close to the amount the team desires for a given match? Why does the U.S. have a number of retractables that is comparable to all of those in the rest of the world? Or even just have indoor stadiums like in the U.S.(which also has a comparable number to the rest of the world combined. This is generally how places with inclement weather on a regular basis are dealt with(the acception being Texas Stadium, which was engineered to be retractable in 1971 and Qwest, which is roofed and probably the most similar in climate to England)
> 
> 3.) Why is there never a criticism of the Japanese tendency of playing indoors? I know why they do, but do you?
> 
> 4.) If Americans are sensitive, its because of the repeated waves of European(mainly British as the roof is not necessarily European) posters asking the same questions, making criticisms based on how their stadiums have to be built based on their sports and climates, and the continuous criticism from those same posters trying to discredit our sports. We've heard it all before. I've been reading this board for maybe 2 years now. The same posts come up maybe 3 times a year by a new poster. At least there hasn't been an EU vs USA stadium post lately. Probably because the moderators don't tolerate them anymore.
> 
> 5.) Does a roof stop the cold? For Soldier Field, Philly, New England or Invesco to add a European style roof, it would have to stop the cold. Otherwise you just dome it like Detroit or Minnesota.


Hey, I'm just trying to learn her!
So the weather in Philly and New England is better than the weather in Europe, and a football game is cancelled in bad weather?

About the Japanese tendency to play inside, I don't know, but I could imagine is because of the hurricanes. And I have no problem with them playing indoor, people can play their sports like the want to!

And no, a roof doesn't stop the cold, but it helps! Does it have to be one way of the other? 

Like you say the NFL is one of the richest leagues in the world, and like you indicate it another tradition and other priorities. I just think it would look great if some of these great stadiums was roofed like in Europe. 
I have no interest in trying to discredit your sport and I doesn't want a discussion of Europe stadiums v.s US stadiums. The stadiums are different like the sports are. Both great in their own way!


----------



## nomarandlee

> canarywondergod]
> I didnt realise however how few games in the NFL are acutally played. It does make more economic sense to forget the roof and concentrate on seats, especially as the weathers better in the USA compared to England.


 In football stadiums the elements are also seen as natural and part of the game (as stated already). Also, in the winter it is sunny (yet very cold) more then raining or snowing and most people in winter wouldn't care to be under shade on a sunny (or already overcast) winter afternoon (90% of NFL games are during the day). 

If fans are to be more comfortable (they are more likely to be concerned with the cold) then just a roof a roof would be seen as lamely inadequate to giving them real comfort (where temperature rather then elements are more an issue). Many would think "you want to block out the sun while doing nothing about the cold?). Only a dome or retractable roof is likely to really make NFL fans feel more comfortable and appreciative of an overhanging structure.



> However why do most NFL grounds have one side missing e.g. INVESCO Field?!the stadiums would be awesome if they were complete bowls!


 
Because if they did all have bowls they would like very much alike to each other and stadiums in Europe. Gives a sense of more open space, landscape views beyond the stadium, more uniqueness to formation of the stands, and maybe most important midfield seats are are at a premium at NFL games (they cost the most) and so as many seats are possible are located in the middle sections as opposed to the end zones (which are not as desirable.)


----------



## BostonSkyGuy

Iggybumtastic said:


> Yes, it was agreed by most Americans on the board a few months ago that most American stadiums don't have roofs simply because the clubs/cities can't afford the extra expense.


Well that information is wrong. Here's a 2004 Forbes list of teams by Revenue. I've bolded the teams with domed or rooved stadiums. The Ranks (seen before the team name) is the rank of the value of the actual team.

Rank Team Current Value1 ($mil) 1-Yr Value Change (%) Debt/Value3 (%) Revenues ($mil) Operating Income4($mil) 

1 Washington Redskins 1,104 16 20 245 69.6 

*2 Dallas Cowboys 923 8 14 205 37.5 * 

*3 Houston Texans 905 14 36 201 55.5 * 

5 Philadelphia Eagles 833 35 40 198 44.3 

4 New England Patriots 861 14 54 191 30.5 

6 Denver Broncos 815 19 25 183 42.8 

7 Cleveland Browns 798 15 13 183 59.0 

8 Chicago Bears 785 26 25 175 33.1 

9 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 779 16 18 175 25.0 

10 Baltimore Ravens 776 20 35 172 34.8 

11 Miami Dolphins 765 20 26 170 32.1 

12 Carolina Panthers 760 18 16 169 17.3 

13 Green Bay Packers 756 24 4 168 23.4 

*14 Detroit Lions 747 18 29 168 25.1 * 

15 Tennessee Titans 736 19 17 164 22.2 

16 Pittsburgh Steelers 717 18 14 159 35.3 

_18 Kansas City Chiefs 709 18 18 159 24.0 _ 

17 Seattle Seahawks 712 17 16 158 6.0 

*19 St Louis Rams 708 18 14 157 21.8 * 

*26 New Orleans Saints 627 7 0 157 7.8 * 

20 New York Giants 692 21 9 154 20.2 

21 Jacksonville Jaguars 688 21 18 153 16.6 

22 New York Jets 685 21 15 152 26.5 

24 Buffalo Bills 637 13 11 152 28.5 

25 San Francisco 49ers 636 12 16 151 29.4 

23 Cincinnati Bengals 675 20 1 150 14.2 

27 Oakland Raiders 624 8 8 149 26.1 

28 San Diego Chargers 622 11 16 148 22.5 

*29 Indianapolis Colts 609 11 21 145 13.6 * 

*30 Minnesota Vikings 604 12 21 144 4.1 * 

*31 Atlanta Falcons 603 13 45 144 6.4*

_*32 Arizona Cardinals 552 9 14 131 -4.9 * _ 


I put the Kansas City Chiefs in Italics because they are currently going to put a retractable roof over their stadium so that they will be eligible to host the Super Bowl. The Cardinals currently play outdoors but are moving into a new stadium with a roof.

Notice that the bottom four teams generating the LEAST amount of revenue have enclosed stadiums? Granted the Vikings are moving to a new stadium which will be outdoors, but that's mainly because they want the advantage of playing outdoors in one of the coldest places.

The Cardinals are DEAD LAST in revenue and are currently building a state of the art stadium with retractable roof/endzones. If building a roof was so expensive, how could they do this? 

This list isn't really 100% proof that only teams with high money can build domes or roofs but what it does show is that places with domes happen to be hotter cities. Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Arizona, New Orleans are all some of the warmer climate cities when the league starts up in September. I think that has something to do with it as with a dome/roof you can control the climate indoors and set it to what you feel necessary.

Is it more expensive to build a roof? Sure, but that's not the main reasons most teams don't build them.


----------



## BostonSkyGuy

canarywondergod said:


> Thats not completely true as the majority of premiership and championship football team clubs have under soil heating, meaning if it does snow the snow merely melts away. Of course if it was a blizzard then the match would be called off, as what happened in Sunderland recently. However i could not sit through 20 odd home games a season in the wet a roof, for me personally, is a necessity when watching football in england.


Sorry, I guess I didn't convey my point well. I was stating that soccer could never be played in the blizzard conditions seen in the pics in this thread. I wasn't saying they don't play in snow, I just watched a game the US played where it was coming down hard, but wasn't sticking--I assume the stadium had soil heating.

Here in New England there's soil heating as well, but they don't use it for the Patriots because the snow is an advantage especially against warmer weather teams.


----------



## Reptilikus

nomarandlee said:


> Huh?? When did that happen? Roofs or domes are not that expensive these days. A retractable dome over an 80k might really increase the budget but just a roof (not even a dome)? No.


Now I'm begining to understand. 
- The stadiums rarely has a roof because it is used just to a few games a year, and therefore a big expense compared with the chance of rain.
- People pays the samme no mather if there is a roof or not, and still comes to the games in rain. 

A retractable roof is then primarily build to attract the superbowl and to increase the income on other events.

But who pays for the construction of the stadiums. The team or the city?


----------



## Iggybumtastic

BostonSkyGuy said:


> Well that information is wrong. Here's a 2004 Forbes list of teams by Revenue. I've bolded the teams with domed or rooved stadiums. The Ranks (seen before the team name) is the rank of the value of the actual team.
> 
> Rank Team Current Value1 ($mil) 1-Yr Value Change (%) Debt/Value3 (%) Revenues ($mil) Operating Income4($mil)
> 
> 1 Washington Redskins 1,104 16 20 245 69.6
> 
> *2 Dallas Cowboys 923 8 14 205 37.5 *
> 
> *3 Houston Texans 905 14 36 201 55.5 *
> 
> 5 Philadelphia Eagles 833 35 40 198 44.3
> 
> 4 New England Patriots 861 14 54 191 30.5
> 
> 6 Denver Broncos 815 19 25 183 42.8
> 
> 7 Cleveland Browns 798 15 13 183 59.0
> 
> 8 Chicago Bears 785 26 25 175 33.1
> 
> 9 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 779 16 18 175 25.0
> 
> 10 Baltimore Ravens 776 20 35 172 34.8
> 
> 11 Miami Dolphins 765 20 26 170 32.1
> 
> 12 Carolina Panthers 760 18 16 169 17.3
> 
> 13 Green Bay Packers 756 24 4 168 23.4
> 
> *14 Detroit Lions 747 18 29 168 25.1 *
> 
> 15 Tennessee Titans 736 19 17 164 22.2
> 
> 16 Pittsburgh Steelers 717 18 14 159 35.3
> 
> _18 Kansas City Chiefs 709 18 18 159 24.0 _
> 
> 17 Seattle Seahawks 712 17 16 158 6.0
> 
> *19 St Louis Rams 708 18 14 157 21.8 *
> 
> *26 New Orleans Saints 627 7 0 157 7.8 *
> 
> 20 New York Giants 692 21 9 154 20.2
> 
> 21 Jacksonville Jaguars 688 21 18 153 16.6
> 
> 22 New York Jets 685 21 15 152 26.5
> 
> 24 Buffalo Bills 637 13 11 152 28.5
> 
> 25 San Francisco 49ers 636 12 16 151 29.4
> 
> 23 Cincinnati Bengals 675 20 1 150 14.2
> 
> 27 Oakland Raiders 624 8 8 149 26.1
> 
> 28 San Diego Chargers 622 11 16 148 22.5
> 
> *29 Indianapolis Colts 609 11 21 145 13.6 *
> 
> *30 Minnesota Vikings 604 12 21 144 4.1 *
> 
> *31 Atlanta Falcons 603 13 45 144 6.4*
> 
> _*32 Arizona Cardinals 552 9 14 131 -4.9 * _
> 
> 
> I put the Kansas City Chiefs in Italics because they are currently going to put a retractable roof over their stadium so that they will be eligible to host the Super Bowl. The Cardinals currently play outdoors but are moving into a new stadium with a roof.
> 
> Notice that the bottom four teams generating the LEAST amount of revenue have enclosed stadiums? Granted the Vikings are moving to a new stadium which will be outdoors, but that's mainly because they want the advantage of playing outdoors in one of the coldest places.
> 
> The Cardinals are DEAD LAST in revenue and are currently building a state of the art stadium with retractable roof/endzones. If building a roof was so expensive, how could they do this?
> 
> This list isn't really 100% proof that only teams with high money can build domes or roofs but what it does show is that places with domes happen to be hotter cities. Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Arizona, New Orleans are all some of the warmer climate cities when the league starts up in September. I think that has something to do with it as with a dome/roof you can control the climate indoors and set it to what you feel necessary.
> 
> Is it more expensive to build a roof? Sure, but that's not the main reasons most teams don't build them.


They can't build roofs because they are on the dole and spent their last crisis loan on mad Jellies!!


----------



## NFLeuropefan

> Granted the Vikings are moving to a new stadium


Well, not exactly, they have a LONG way to go before they get the stadium that they want.....


----------



## Doc Halladay

Reptilikus said:


> Now I'm begining to understand.
> 
> 
> But who pays for the construction of the stadiums. The team or the city?


Usually it's a combination of the team, the city, and the taxpayers. However, a lot of these stadiums are getting a good chunk of money from naming rights. Hence your Lincoln Financial Field, Gillette Stadium, and Heinz Field among others. Lincoln Financial Group paid $139.6 million alone to have their name on the Eagles new stadium in 2003.

As for the no roof thing, ask anyone who has been to a game in a dome and a game outside and they will right away tell you that the game played outdoors in the elements is better. I've been to Ford Field in Detroit (roof) and Ralph Wilson Stadium in Buffalo (no roof) and there's really no competition... the game in Buffalo was a much better experience even if it was freezing cold out.


----------



## Iggybumtastic

A roof doesn't have to be a dome. You can have a normal fixed roof that just covers the stands.


----------



## Doc Halladay

Kind of like what Dallas has... their stadium is fugly x 10 though.


----------



## Iggybumtastic

Yeah, that's uglier than my girlfriend!! A nice clean modern roof like these ones -


----------



## rantanamo

This thread is doing exactly what I'm talking about. Why are we explaining the uselessness of a roof in freezing weather again? Why are we explaining horseshoes again? Why are we explaining the dynamics of why a horseshoe is pretty cool in our football? Why is the English set once again not looking at how their own stadiums are built, yet trying to apply some standard of only a few of their own stadiums? Why is European style 'canopy' still trying to be seen as some super expensive thing when there are many U.S. stadiums with NO ROOF that COST MORE as if NFL franchises are poor?

For new posters, just please read posts on American stadiums. You'll find that many questions that you have are asked over and over in many posts. All the way to the point that now you get questions like why does ___________ need a retractable roof.

For those not familiar with the NFL, I will say this................................If the NFL is doing it in their stadiums, then it must be a wise decision as far as being modern and revenue generating. You can hate those owners as much as you want, but they are the supreme league when it comes to making money, and the stadiums have evolved as such. Why do NFL stadiums have so many suites and club seats? Well, the NFL figured out in the 70's that the wealthy love to entertain at sporting events in their own luxury environs. It seems that Europe has begun to follow this as well. Why are there so many seats on the side, and fewer behind the ends? The NFL owners figured out that you can charge more for a better view, even when it is further away. Lo and behold, you're starting to see the 'saddle roofs' in Europe and Austrailia. Even the mighty Wembley is following NFL type design cues. So don't dismiss the NFL as some weirdo dierdos. They are setting the standard and those guys know how to make money.


----------



## Iggybumtastic

rantanamo said:


> This thread is doing exactly what I'm talking about. Why are we explaining the uselessness of a roof in freezing weather again? Why are we explaining horseshoes again? Why are we explaining the dynamics of why a horseshoe is pretty cool in our football? Why is the English set once again not looking at how their own stadiums are built, yet trying to apply some standard of only a few of their own stadiums? Why is European style 'canopy' still trying to be seen as some super expensive thing when there are many U.S. stadiums with NO ROOF that COST MORE as if NFL franchises are poor?
> 
> For new posters, just please read posts on American stadiums. You'll find that many questions that you have are asked over and over in many posts. All the way to the point that now you get questions like why does ___________ need a retractable roof.
> 
> For those not familiar with the NFL, I will say this................................If the NFL is doing it in their stadiums, then it must be a wise decision as far as being modern and revenue generating. You can hate those owners as much as you want, but they are the supreme league when it comes to making money, and the stadiums have evolved as such. Why do NFL stadiums have so many suites and club seats? Well, the NFL figured out in the 70's that the wealthy love to entertain at sporting events in their own luxury environs. It seems that Europe has begun to follow this as well. Why are there so many seats on the side, and fewer behind the ends? The NFL owners figured out that you can charge more for a better view, even when it is further away. Lo and behold, you're starting to see the 'saddle roofs' in Europe and Austrailia. Even the mighty Wembley is following NFL type design cues. So don't dismiss the NFL as some weirdo dierdos. They are setting the standard and those guys know how to make money.



OOOooooHHHhhhhhh.........Handbags!!


----------



## rantanamo

When I think of the great roofs in the world, I don't think of those Iggy, no offense. Qwest Field, Reliant, Athens Olympic, Miller Park, Safeco and Da Luz come to mind. I see no need for small canopies. I will at least give England credit for their roofs. If it rains a lot where you are, and you're truly building the roof to keep people out of that rain, you build it like Old Trafford or Emirates. Not just because its pretty or FIFA or the UEFA say to do it.


----------



## eddyk

Iggy is not english.

I thought I might let you know that.


----------



## rantanamo

I'm still waiting for my questions about European stadiums to be answered. No surprise, they never are. 

And if you're gonna make fun, Iggy, please stop your owners from building in the NFL style.


----------



## Goofy

How the **** did Freddie Ljungberg's kitbag end up on this thread?


----------



## Iggybumtastic

rantanamo said:


> I'm still waiting for my questions about European stadiums to be answered. No surprise, they never are.
> 
> And if you're gonna make fun, Iggy, please stop your owners from building in the NFL style.


I didn't know my 'owner' was building NFL style stadiums!!! The last thing the NHS should be doing is building a bloody stadium!! No wonder my knee's are fucked!!


----------



## Isaac Newell

I've always liked Texas Stadium, since the opening credits of Dallas.


----------



## Socrates

rantanamo said:


> I'm still waiting for my questions about European stadiums to be answered. No surprise, they never are.


You dumb ******** probably wouldn't understand the answers anyway, so whats the point?


----------



## Reptilikus

rantanamo said:


> Why is the English set once again not looking at how their own stadiums are built, yet trying to apply some standard of only a few of their own stadiums? Why is European style 'canopy' still trying to be seen as some super expensive thing when there are many U.S. stadiums with NO ROOF that COST MORE as if NFL franchises are poor?


Like I said before: People prioritize diffently. In Northern Europe every stadium build has a roof for the spectators. End of story! 
Is it wise financially? Roofs in Europe doesn't come cheap neither, so of course there is a reason why it's being build. 

I simply doesn't think people would come to the games if it rained and the stadium didn't have roof. People are different!


----------



## nomarandlee

> mauritius gunner]Noted, would the level of luxury also have to do with the amount of funds allocated by a state dept or the wealth of a college?


 In general no. Often time big time football/basketball programs pay for themselves and then some to the ponit they actually bring in BIG money and help subsidze other atheltic programs that need funding.



> e.g. Foxboro = Harvard Massachusets
> Stanford = Berkley University etc?
> 
> Because these two stadia are exceptionally plush, I am sure these do not reflect all college stadia. Also noted point about demand for tickets, however how often are these matches played and are they all a sell-out?


 Harvard plays at Harvard stadium in Boston. They never played at Foxboro stadium. Foxboro stadium was always a pro stadium as far as I know (and not a great one at that). And Stanford is in Palo Alto and the U.of California Berkley is in Berkely (which works out). 

They each have their own stadiums but neither are what I would describe as "plush" from what I know of either and are rather protypical of big time (neither are hardly among the biggest) football programs. There stadiums would certainly be nowhere be the level of modern NFL comforts and usual specs.


----------



## mauritius gunner

BostonSkyGuy said:


> Please don't feed the Euros. No matter what explaination you give for something they won't listen and will have the opinion Americans are stupid. Save your words and let them wonder about why Americans don't have roofs and why our college stadiums are so big. Why are they so big...think about it.
> 
> And Foxboro Stadium wasn't a college stadium. Go do some research.


WOOOooooooooooooooooooooo!!

Yep, just testing/teasing. 

:nuts: Oh p.s., Mauritius isn't in Europe....


----------



## rantanamo

> Also noted point about demand for tickets, however how often are these matches played and are they all a sell-out?


For the major football schools, it is more rare to not sell out. Attendance will vary only by a few hundred because of how many media or people are in the suites. Even if only 99% of the stands are filled, that other 1% is usually sold well in advance and someone just had to miss. Games are each Saturday in the fall. Similar to the NFL schedule, but less games that usually stop the first week of December, then a bowl game if the team was good.




> A former student of a university. I'd guess the main reason collage football is so popular is that their are not enough teams/cheap tickets on offer from the NFL to meet the demand for Gridiron/Football in the US.


This isn't the case at all. The NFL and college football are simply two different entities. If I had the money, I'd personally follow the Texas Longhorns every Saturday and the Dallas Cowboys all season on Sunday. I'm sure many feel the same. Two different atmospheres, different rules, different games. If the NFL was only drawing 10,000 per game, college stadiums would still fill up. You root for an NFL team, but once you attend a University, you are part of your schools team and spirit. That's about the best way I can describe why there is so much spirit for college teams. I am a Cowboys fan. I am a Texas Longhorn.

should point out that Stanford is totally remodeling their stadium and it will be plush. But as nomarandlee pointed out, the big programs have the big stadiums. They pay for themselves and other sports, and often get huge donations for facilities from alumni. College training facilities are on par with what you find in the NFL


----------



## dave8721

It should also be pointed out that we only use these giant stadiums about 6 times a year at the most. College Football season is only 11 or 12 games long.


----------



## rantanamo

true, but imagine with the right schedule, a team could easily average 80,000-90,000 per game. Especially in the Big 10 or SEC.


----------



## CharlieP

mauritius gunner said:


> what is an alumni??


Nothing. An alumn*us* is somebody who graduated from a particular university, and two or more are alumn*i*.


----------



## mauritius gunner

dave8721 said:


> It should also be pointed out that we only use these giant stadiums about 6 times a year at the most. College Football season is only 11 or 12 games long.


Good point raised, I suppose if only 11 or 12 games are played a year, it is more of an event and therefore easier to draw large crowds to college football games. But is this enough?

Surely these behemoths are costly to maintain?

Is there not a risk that these stadia could become white elephants? Is popularity for college football steadily increasing or declining?


----------



## Socrates

Crazy Yanks.


----------



## SouthBank

a) Mainly beacause the US is a big country, with hundreds of pockets of large population centres. Despite this, and unlike most other countries in the world, the most popular sports only have a relatively small number of professional teams. Combine these two factors and you go some way to explaining the size of these stadiums - in a way, therefore, college sports (although significantly different in many ways to the professional major leagues) serve slightly similar roles to the second and third divisions in European football, for example.

b) The larger and/or most prestigious US Universities are generally quite wealthy institutions (a combination of being allowed to charge extortionate fees and a strong tradition of alumni support). As a result, they can afford to spend money on such stadiums, even if they aren't necessarily financially viable (a large number of stadiums are named after/dedicated to wealthy benefactors who have significantly contributed to construction).

c) Because of point a, the demand is there...


----------



## rantanamo

mauritius gunner said:


> Good point raised, I suppose if only 11 or 12 games are played a year, it is more of an event and therefore easier to draw large crowds to college football games. But is this enough?
> 
> Surely these behemoths are costly to maintain?
> 
> Is there not a risk that these stadia could become white elephants? Is popularity for college football steadily increasing or declining?


Yes, college games are more like an event outside of the game. Especially the big rivalries like Texas-Oklahoma, Michigan-Ohio State or Notre Dame-USC. Old friends getting together, lots of partying, etc. The Florida-Georgia game is even called the World's Biggest Outdoor Cocktail Party. Make no mistake though, even vs the lowliest team, you're getting huge crowds. Such larger schools also invoke lots of state pride. You'll get celebrities and even non-alumni cheering for you if you a big state team. Most of the athletes will be homegrown if you're talking about a big state school like Texas or Alabama. People like to brag that their state produces the best talent.

I'd worry more about white elements in nations that don't have the consistent fandom. If you are Texas and your stadium seats 83,000 consistently and their's a long waiting list for tickets, then maybe its time to add 10,000 seats and modernize the stadium a little bit. Well, that's what is happening. Even if the team gets significantly worse, you still have a gameday tradition and a huge alumni base that wants to see the games. This doesn't even mention that these are old stadiums, many built in the early 1900s. There's actually an entire thread dedicated to college stadium expansion.

College football's popularity is constantly on the rise. Unless schools just drop their football programs or some heinous allegations start coming out, there should be a steady increase of fans. You are even seeing new schools like South Florida and smaller schools like Marshall, rise into the ranks of major college football. It started before the NFL and will probably be here after unless the NFL decides to go NBA on us and drop the age requirement and start a minor league. That would still make it hard as the strength, speed and skill difference in an 18 and 22 year old is massive. You pretty much never have a kid mature enough to take an NFL beating, nor do you have a kid with small enough ego to pass up playing in front of 90-100,000 people and raise one's value. 

If you are to use our minor league systems, then the U.S. has a ton of professional teams. We're just sport loving maniacs.


----------



## Isaac Newell

Spartan Stadium has been filled for an Ice Hockey game I think.


----------



## Socrates

There are not many stadiums anywhere that are not fit to host Champions League games. 20,000 Rangers fans and about a tenth as many Arsenal fans who visited el Madrigal in Spain will testify to that: 










But finals are a different matter. Since no NFL stadiums have been certified 5 star stadiums by UEFA, then none could be used for hosting a CL final.


----------



## mauritius gunner

Excellent feedback guys, keep the arguments flowing, including any pictures of famous college grounds.

Surely there must be enough of you out there who went to college and attended some of these?

Thought it would make a change from the usual NFL / NBA grounds which seem to feature a lot.

Still, nobody has answered my question earlier- surely with relatively few games played at these grounds each year (11 or 12 games), these behemoths are quite costly to maintain?

What about sponsorship and TV coverage, how often does this happen at each game, or is it only the final that is televised etc?


----------



## **** ***

Socrates said:


> 20,000 Arsenal fans and about a tenth as many Rangers fans who visited el Madrigal in Spain will testify to that:


pathetic and sad


----------



## rantanamo

I think the 5 star question for the NFL is a fair one and I'd like to play that one too



> * Minimum capacity of 50,000 (5-star venues) / 30,000 (4-star venues) – individual seats with backrests. (Venues that still have individual seats without proper backrests will still continue to be accepted. In future, however, closer attention will be paid to this aspect, and which will influence the committee’s decision regarding the addition of venues to these list categories.)


Pretty much a check for the NFL. The acceptions would be Lambeau, which is mostly benches on purpose plus seated club seats. The upper endzone section of Heinz has benches and would have to change, as would the "Dog Pound" section of Cleveland Browns Stadium



> * Pitch dimensions of 105 x 68 m. The field of play must be in pristine condition and be prepared accordingly for a final (quality of grass, irrigation, smooth surface, etc.).


The entire NFL playing surface is 360 feet long which is greater than 105m. The required width is 160 feet compared to 223 for UEFA width. That would require about 65 feet of extra width to be safe. or about 22 yards of total extra space. Its safe to say there is 11 yards of sideline space in the NFL. Most have been built for the 120 x 80 requirement by FIFA. Even Fedex Field(notoriously narrow) was close to the UEFA requirement without retracting seats(which it did for the women's World Cup.) Given that FIFA also approved many of the temp(some stadiums have actually temporary FIFA approved grass fields that blend into the infill turfs) and permanent grass conditions for friendlies, surface condition would not be much of an issue.



> * Protective fences around the field of play are not acceptable. Venues which have such installations will not be included on the list.


Can't think of one in the NFL



> * Sufficient room around the field of play for advertising boards and at least 18 TV cameras. In addition, there must be enough room between the goals and the first row of spectator seats behind both goals for a total of maximum 150 photographers.


Not much of an issue with many having FIFA dimensions already and the NFL field being longer



> * First-rate dressing-rooms for both teams and the referees (equal size and furnishings for both teams, spacious, bright and clean).


try getting away without this in the NFL



> * Suitable and appropriately equipped drug-testing room.


I honestly have no idea





> * Floodlighting of a minimum intensity of 1,400 lux (eV) in the direction of the main camera, and of 1,000 Lux (eV) towards the other areas of the stadium, plus an efficient emergency power supply able to provide, without interruption, the same luminouslight intensity as the main lighting.


The NFL minimum is 180 footcandles. ESPN, CBS, NBC and ABC have stated the need for 250 footcandles for High Definition broadcasts. 180 footcandles = 1937 Lux. 250 footcandles = 2690 Lux. All NFL games are broadcast in Hi-definition through the networks or through DirectTV's NFL Sunday Ticket. Without knowing it, we've seen uninterrupted backup systems, which are also NFL required. 3rd backups however are not required. 




> * Modern security installations (access monitoring system, adequate PA system, etc.).


given



> * A permanent TV surveillance system in colour that is able to monitor the movement of spectators, as well as their behaviour inside and outside the stadium. This installation must also be able to produce still shots of any troublemakers, which can then be distributed immediately to the security officers / stewards in the stadium.


Not only in place, but there are also holding cells, which is a surprise to me.



> * Clear signage that everyone can understand inside and outside the stadium, as well as in its immediate vicinity.


I don't know if this means in different languages or clear legible symbols, or brail? I do know that symbols and of a certain size are required at US sporting venues of a certain size re the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990. You also have the ADAAG in the US, requiring all kinds of signage and handicapped access requirements




> * Suitable covered seats for disabled spectators and their accompanying persons (minimum of two sectors with at least 50 places each). The areas for disabled spectators must be adequately equipped with toilet facilities and a refreshment bar.
> 
> 
> 
> * Acceptable sanitary facilities for spectators (both sexes) in terms of numbers, cleanliness and standards. Toilets without seats will no longer be accepted for spectators of either sex.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know exactly what they mean by 2 sectores, but in the U.S. you have the ADAAG and Americans with Disabilities Act that easily covers such requirements. All toilet areas must provide wheelchair access. Luxury Boxes and club seating areas are required to have covered wheel chair areas. as well as the requirement of at least 1% +1 of counted seats in the main seating bowl. Meaning for 65,000 seat Texas Stadium, there must be at least 651 such spaces. In addition companion spaces must be large enough to fit a wheelchair meaning the actual number is 2% = 2. 25% of stadium routes must also be wheelchair accessible as well as their being view and patron service requirements. Very very strict.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Provision of first-rate media facilities in terms of camera positions, working places, TV studios, etc., in accordance with the according to “UEFA Guidelines for Media Facilities”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> welcome to the invention of the press box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Adequate first-class facilities must be provided for VIPs, including a minimum of 150 places in the Honorary Tribune VIP box)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> welcome to inordinate amounts of such places
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * International airport(s) able to cope with the huge extra demands of a UEFA final (capacity for up to 60 charter flights per day in addition to normal serviceregular flights)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The U.S. is the large airport capital of the world
> 
> From looking at the criteria, the biggest problem would be places with Benches. That would include Cleveland, RCA dome, Heinz Field and Lambeau Field as of right now.
> 
> So the list would go like this:
> 
> M&T Bank Stadium
> Ralph Wilson Stadium
> Paul Brown Stadium
> INVESCO Field
> Gillette Stadium
> Reliant Stadium
> ALLTEL Stadium
> Arrowhead Stadium
> Pro Player Stadium
> The Tennessee Coliseum
> Giants Stadium
> Network Associates Coliseum
> Qualcomm Stadium
> Georgia Dome
> Bank of America Stadium
> Soldier Field
> Texas Stadium
> Ford Field
> Metrodome
> Louisiana Superdome
> Cardinals Stadium
> Lincoln Financial Field
> 3Com Park
> Qwest Field
> Edward Jones Dome
> Raymond James Stadium
> FedEx Field
Click to expand...


----------



## Socrates

**** *** said:


> pathetic and sad


Oh I see what you've done. You've turned around what I said! Thats very clever! Some might think it pathetic and sad but I am impressed.

Good show


----------



## **** ***

Socrates said:


> Oh I see what you've turned around. You've done what I said! Thats very pathetic! Some might think it sad and impressed but I am clever.
> 
> Show good


 :cheers1:


----------



## Martuh

Close the damn thread, it was a reaction to Comprehensive list of European football Stadiums which are NFL fit.


----------



## Socrates

Martuh said:


> Close the damn thread, it was a reaction to Comprehensive list of European football Stadiums which are NFL fit.


That doesn't mean its not a topic worthy of discussion. 

Who wouldn't want to see Rangers v Inter in this stadium:


----------



## hngcm

I wouldn't.

Now Juve and AC....


----------



## Martuh

Because they only play like 5 home games a year. When you count the total number of spectators in a season (not in ONE game), I guess even a club like Sunderland attracts more spectators.


----------



## rantanamo

If there were 10 or 15 home games, they'd be filled too. Some of these places are sold out for years.


----------



## 40Acres

Let these threads die please oh please!

Do some MF'ing research if you want to see pictures and learn about this retread topic. There is even a HUUUUUGE thread on this very board about college football. In fact, here.


----------



## Iggybumtastic

I presume US colleges can't afford roofs as none of the college stadiums have a roof!!


----------



## Socrates

^^ They probably spend any spare cash on the catering facilities since food is what most Americans spend all their cash on.


----------



## Iggybumtastic




----------



## Encinal

A couple of comments:

- "Plush" isn't really a word I would to describe many college stadia. Memorial Stadium in Berkeley, for example, has decaying wooden benches for seating, and only recently installed lights for night games. 

- College athletic programs, including the stadiums, are paid for through alumni donations, etc. They have different funding sources than the rest of the university.


----------



## Socrates

Do US stadiums have a MCDonalds in them? If not then thats an opportunity missed! $$$ down the drain!


----------



## ReddAlert

Socrates said:


> ^^ They probably spend any spare cash on the catering facilities since food is what most Americans spend all their cash on.


yeah....thats right. And what do Europeans spend all theirs on? Books, art work, musical instruments, art supplies, techno music? Please, come up with some better shit than that ****-rates.


----------



## Iggybumtastic

Most have more than one McDonalds in them. Up to 20 McDonalds can be found in some of new modern NFL stadiums.


----------



## ReddAlert

oh and whats this second city of the empire shit? Sorry, but unless you are from Los Angeles.....your from the second city of some long dead empire that the U.S. now supasses---China and India in the future.


----------



## ReddAlert

Iggybumtastic said:


> Most have more than one McDonalds in them. Up to 20 McDonalds can be found in some of new modern NFL stadiums.


Most stadiums sell their own foods.


----------



## Iggybumtastic

ReddAlert said:


> oh and whats this second city of the empire shit? Sorry, but unless you are from Los Angeles.....your from the second city of some long dead empire that the U.S. now supasses---China and India in the future.


----------



## 40Acres

ReddAlert said:


> your from the second city of some long dead empire


or one never born.



> It's SHITE being Scottish! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the fucking Earth! The most wretched miserable servile pathetic trash that was ever shat on civilization. Some people hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are colonized by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to get colonized by. We're ruled by effete assholes. It's a shite state of affairs to be in, Tommy, and all the fresh air in the world won't make any fucking difference!


----------



## Socrates

ReddAlert said:


> oh and whats this second city of the empire shit? Sorry, but unless you are from Los Angeles.....your from the second city of some long dead empire that the U.S. now supasses---China and India in the future.


Are all Americans as crude and uncultured as you?


----------



## Iggybumtastic

Socrates said:


> Are all Americans as crude and uncultured as you?


To be honest, they are not. Unfortunately this forum seems to attract the hod dog eating, beer swilling ******** that love shitty sports like American Football. The kind of American you find in the middle states.


----------



## 40Acres

> National picture of adults overweight and obesity in Scotland
> 
> On average, 40% of men in Scotland are overweight, with a BMI of 25-29.9. A further 16% are obese (BMI>30).
> 
> Pie chart showing 40% of men overweight, and 16% obese


You're the one for me, fatty


----------



## TexasBoi

Iggybumtastic said:


> To be honest, they are not. Unfortunately this forum seems to attract the hod dog eating, beer swilling ******** that love shitty sports like American Football. The kind of American you find in the middle states.


oh please. not one pictures you posted was humorous and it's funny how much jackshit you know about American sports in general. Don't be mad because you like shitty sports such like Association Football.


----------



## 40Acres

To be honest, they are not. Unfortunately this forum seems to attract the haggis eating, scotch swilling Sheepfuckers that love shitty sports like log tossing. The kind of Scot you find in the glens.


----------



## ReddAlert

Socrates said:


> Are all Americans as crude and uncultured as you?


define crude? Defending my country using true arguments? Seriously, tell me what the second city of the empire is? London? Please.


----------



## ReddAlert

40Acres said:


> ^^^
> love those traditional scottish traits .... green eyes, red hair, fire crotch


lol, yeah...like the Trolls. They live in the mountains too.


----------



## 40Acres

william wallace was a cocksmith and had an aussie accent.


----------



## ReddAlert

Socrates said:


> Typical ignorant American. Someone ought to tell you that schools are for learning not shooting practice.


Silly Rabbit. Scotsmen are for ewes.


----------



## Iggybumtastic

Check out this clip for thick Americans (the thick ****** is hilarious - 'I think Italy') -


http://www.extremefunnypictures.com/funnypic1145.htm


----------



## ReddAlert

Iggybumtastic said:


> It's not, it's your mum, and she loves Scottish Beef!!


nobody likes Scottish Beef. For we all know what disgusting things are done to the beef by their "farmers".


----------



## Iggybumtastic

40Acres said:


> william wallace was a cocksmith and had an aussie accent.



I'm just so offended, honestly, i'm really hurt!! I don't know how I will be able to go on!!


----------



## Jules

- edit


----------



## ReddAlert

40Acres said:


> william wallace was a cocksmith and had an aussie accent.


wrong, the savior of Scotland was actually an American named Mel Gibson.


----------



## ReddAlert

Iggybumtastic said:


> Check out this clip for thick Americans (the thick ****** is hilarious - 'I think Italy') -
> 
> 
> http://www.extremefunnypictures.com/funnypic1145.htm


******? Shit, a Dane is a ****** to you pale ass people.


----------



## Socrates

Mel Gibson is australian dick head


----------



## Yardmaster

BostonSkyGuy said:


> Please don't feed the Euros. No matter what explaination you give for something they won't listen and will have the opinion Americans are stupid. Save your words and let them wonder about why Americans don't have roofs and why our college stadiums are so big. Why are they so big...think about it.
> 
> And Foxboro Stadium wasn't a college stadium. Go do some research.


It's not just the "Euros".


----------



## Socrates

_'We'll make a big glass crater out of the fucking middle east for all I care'_ - Art the goddamn *******.


----------



## ReddAlert

Socrates said:


> Mel Gibson is australian dick head


sorry fool, he was born in America and moved to Aussie when his old man hit the jackpot. He lives in America now.


----------



## 40Acres

I can't beleive this bubomb dork has kids and presumably one of those pasty ass scottish broads. I bet his anklebiters are as fucking retarded as he is.

**** off our college FB thread, you need to be IP banned for fucking up every thread. Go beat your extra chromosome infested brats.


----------



## Socrates

ReddAlert said:


> sorry fool, he was born in America and moved to Aussie when his old man hit the jackpot. He lives in America now.


I don't care if he was born in an Alabama trailer park. He is still Australian.


----------



## Iggybumtastic

ReddAlert said:


> nobody likes Scottish Beef. For we all know what disgusting things are done to the beef by their "farmers".


adds to the flavour!!


----------



## Iggybumtastic

40Acres said:


> I can't beleive this bubomb dork has kids and presumably one of those pasty ass scottish broads. I bet his anklebiters are as fucking retarded as he is.
> 
> **** off our college FB thread, you need to be IP banned for fucking up every thread. Go beat your extra chromosome infested brats.



Yes, thats right *******, you of course took no part in fucking this thread up!!


That's the way the mind of a ******* works!! Always somebody else to blame!! Never himself!!


----------



## 40Acres

*'Fat cities' league adds to Glasgow's woes*
ANITA SINGH

*GLASGOW has been named as one of the UK's fattest cities, according to a survey.*

Its inhabitants exist on a diet of fast food and alcohol, do little exercise and spend their spare time slumped in front of the TV, the report said.

Bradford, Liverpool, Manchester and Newcastle also rank high in the obesity league. Edinburgh is placed 11th.

Southampton took the accolade of the fittest city in the UK, a title held by London for the past four years.

The annual survey was carried out by Men's Fitness magazine.

The results were based on data including the incidence of heart disease, the amount of junk food and alcohol consumed, and the level of gym membership.

Bradford was in 11th place in 2004 but shot up to fourth last year and is now in the number one spot, overtaking Manchester. Edinburgh drops one place to 11th.

Men's Fitness deputy editor, Michael Donlevy, said: "The report shows that, despite a lot of noise from the government and our country's apparent obsession with complicated fad diets, obesity is a growing threat to our health.

"Even Prince Charles has recently told us we are all lazy and overweight - and when Prince Charles starts on you, you know you're in trouble."

He added: "The truth is, as a nation we are not burning off enough of the calories we consume. You can ban smoking in pubs and arrest drunks, but who is to stop people gorging on junk food in their own front rooms?"

Related topic

It's shite being scottish


----------



## Iggybumtastic

ReddAlert said:


> ******? Shit, a Dane is a ****** to you pale ass people.


 not bad, that's a bit better!


----------



## ReddAlert

Socrates said:


> I don't care if he was born in an Alabama trailer park. He is still Australian.


sorry, but he is an American citizen.


----------



## Jules

Socrates said:


> To quote an American herom Peter Griffin:
> 
> You know what really grinds my gears - when you morons butcher the English language. Learn to spell, jeez.
> 
> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=apologise
> 
> 
> 
> 1 entry found for apologise.
> apologise
> 
> v 1: defend, explain, clear away, or make excuses for by reasoning; "rationalize the child's seemingly crazy behavior"; "he rationalized his lack of success" [syn: apologize, excuse, justify, rationalize, rationalise] 2: acknowledge faults or shortcomings or failing; "I apologized for being late"; "He apologized for the many typoes"


enunciate young one, and you will see

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=apologize

a·pol·o·gize Audio pronunciation of "apologize" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-pl-jz)
intr.v. a·pol·o·gized, a·pol·o·giz·ing, a·pol·o·giz·es

1. To make excuse for or regretful acknowledgment of a fault or offense.
2. To make a formal defense or justification in speech or writing.

v 1: acknowledge faults or shortcomings or failing; "I apologized for being late"; "He apologized for the many typoes" [syn: apologise] 2: defend, explain, clear away, or make excuses for by reasoning; "rationalize the child's seemingly crazy behavior"; "he rationalized his lack of success" [syn: apologise, excuse, justify, rationalize, rationalise]


----------



## Socrates

BostonSkyGuy said:


> You really are a dumbass aren't you?
> 
> 
> 
> Naaah, we must have the wrong person.


YOU MORON. You do have the wrong person.


----------



## Iggybumtastic

BostonSkyGuy said:


> You really are a dumbass aren't you?
> 
> 
> 
> Naaah, we must have the wrong person.



You got the wrong guy ********!! I haven't mocked the deaths of ANY peopel!!


----------



## 40Acres

looks like we finally hit the jackpot of sensitivity for you douches. I have to say, its about fucking time.


----------



## Socrates




----------



## Iggybumtastic

Look everybody, this is what a scumbag we have on the forum, here is the evidence. If I was an American I would be totally ashamed of this scumbag - Look at what the scumbag posted -


----------



## Jules

Iggybumtastic said:


> Look everybody, this is what a scumbag we have on the forum, here is the evidence. If I was an American I would be totally ashamed of this scumbag - Look at what the scumbag posted -


after those 9/11 pictures you posted...I'd be surprised if anyone cares


----------



## Socrates

You have 5 SSC windows open! :weirdo:

But yeah, seriously, 40acres is a wrong 'un.


----------



## 40Acres

ooooooooo .... scary!

You've managed to be banned under at least 4 usernames that i've known about, and soon on your way to the 5th. And thats all i've KNOWN about. There are surely others. Yet, here i am, byatch. 

I, for the life of me, have no clue how you avoid IP banishment. 

see the sig below.

Oh, 66


----------



## Iggybumtastic

40Acres said:


> ooooooooo .... scary!
> 
> You've managed to be banned under at least 4 usernames that i've known about, and soon on your way to the 5th. And thats all i've KNOWN about. There are surely others. Yet, here i am, byatch.
> 
> I, for the life of me, have no clue how you avoid IP banishment.
> 
> see the sig below.
> 
> Oh, 66



BEAST! BEAST! BEAST! BEAST!


----------



## 40Acres

Iggybumtastic said:


> BEAST! BEAST! BEAST! BEAST!


fucking A right. At least i know my next username after i get banned for this stupid shit.

s i x t y - s i x


----------



## Socrates

40Acres has the cheek to ask where the mods are. Ironically, if they were here to answer his question he wouldn't be here to hear it.


----------



## Iggybumtastic

RP1 said:


> after those 9/11 pictures you posted...I'd be surprised if anyone cares


Under the photo I posted what a terrible event it was and I was posting the pic not to mock, but to point out how Americans wouldn't like people mocking their dead. Totally different context.....although I doubt dumb ******** would be able to work that out!!


----------



## Iggybumtastic

40Acres said:


> fucking A right. At least i know my next username after i get banned for this stupid shit.
> 
> s i x t y - s i x


You don't even care that you mocked the dead!! You are a lowlife, and i'm not joking!!

BEAST! BEAST! BEAST! BEAST!


----------



## 40Acres

^^^
you should have thought about that before you started mocking Columbine, Jonesboro, and Conyers.


----------



## Iggybumtastic

40Acres said:


> ^^^
> you should have thought about that before you started mocking Columbine, Jonesboro, and Conyers.


but I didn't you thick *******. I didn't make those posts you dumb *******!! It was another poster!! How thick are you???


----------



## Socrates

Here is an avatar you could use 40Acres


----------



## Iggybumtastic

this would be better -


----------



## Socrates

Cheers man. Do you like the new Rangers top? I think its good but could be better


----------



## Iggybumtastic




----------



## NFLeuropefan

ratoronto said:


> Rogers Centre (formally Skydome) in Toronto, ON, Canada. When full and with the roof open there is no better MLB stadium. As well, it is right smack in the middle of a thriving, vibrant, and cosmopolitan metropolis. GO JAYS GO!!


Rogers Centre sucks, the atmosphere is terrible, and the staium itself is ugly.....


----------



## Bronski Beat

No, it's okay, i'll pop down tomorrow afternoon. I want to try my new outfit on so I may as well wear it tomorrow -


----------



## Doc Halladay

NFLeuropefan said:


> Rogers Centre sucks, the atmosphere is terrible, and the staium itself is ugly.....


And you've been there how many times...?

The atmosphere is unreal in the summertime when the roof is open and the Yanks or Sox (or any contender) are in for a series. When it gets 40,000 plus in there the atmosphere is second to none. I won't disagree with you though when there's 20,000 there. The atmosphere is pretty bad and all the open patches of blue seats is pretty fugly. Aesthetically speaking, it's been MUCH better over the past couple of years since Ted Rogers bought it. They replaced the crappy astroturf, renovated the concourses to make them wider and ditch the concrete look, and have also added some new scoreboards and a level of excellence inside the playing area itself to get rid of the bare concrete. It looks a LOT better than it did even 2 years ago.

The one thing you can't beat is the location. It's probably the best located stadium in MLB. Anyways...

My top 10:

1. PNC
2. Wrigley
3. Fenway
4. Comerica
5. Jacob's Field
6. Camden Yards
7. Yankee Stadium
8. Safeco
9. Citizens Bank Park
10. New Busch


----------



## Lanier

My Top Ten
1. Turner Field
2. Wrigley
3. Fenway
4. Yankee Stadium
5. Jacob's Field
6. Safeco
7. New Busch
8. Citizens Bank Park
9. PNC
10. Camden Yards


----------



## NFLeuropefan

Doc Halladay said:


> And you've been there how many times...?
> 
> The atmosphere is unreal in the summertime when the roof is open and the Yanks or Sox (or any contender) are in for a series. When it gets 40,000 plus in there the atmosphere is second to none. I won't disagree with you though when there's 20,000 there. The atmosphere is pretty bad and all the open patches of blue seats is pretty fugly. Aesthetically speaking, it's been MUCH better over the past couple of years since Ted Rogers bought it. They replaced the crappy astroturf, renovated the concourses to make them wider and ditch the concrete look, and have also added some new scoreboards and a level of excellence inside the playing area itself to get rid of the bare concrete. It looks a LOT better than it did even 2 years ago.
> 
> The one thing you can't beat is the location. It's probably the best located stadium in MLB. Anyways...
> 
> My top 10:
> 
> 1. PNC
> 2. Wrigley
> 3. Fenway
> 4. Comerica
> 5. Jacob's Field
> 6. Camden Yards
> 7. Yankee Stadium
> 8. Safeco
> 9. Citizens Bank Park
> 10. New Busch


I've been there once, although it was a Devil Rays game, you'd still expect the atmosphere to be much better. No one there even seemed to understand baseball, much less care about it...... That was the game where some guy who was running for Prime Minister or something threw out the first pitch..... 
Of the 18 I've been to, it's behind all of the but the Metrodome, Montreal Olympic, RFK, and Dolphins Stadium...


----------



## cazswell

I have to go against my home team (Blue Jays & Rogers Centre), but from the stadia I've been to (St. Petersburg/Tampa, Boston, TO, NYC, Baltimore, Montreal... small list I know), Fenway is superb.


----------



## i_am_hydrogen

Wrigley and Fenway are tops for me. Some shots of Wrigley by KCgridlock.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

Wow no Dodger Stadium fans? its a classic. still looks brand new and cant beat the view.

Got a renovation this year, with all 56,000 seats replaced and returned to their original pastel colors, as well as box seating similar to the hollywood bowl added to the field area. Looks magnificient.


----------



## i_am_hydrogen

^I've always liked Chavez Ravine. It has a nice atmosphere.


----------



## GNU

rantanamo said:


> DO NOT REPLY TO MY POSTS UNLESS YOU ARE GOING TO READ THE BOARD AND PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT YOU READ. I'm not going to thoroughly explain everything on every post for your pleasure. STOP THIS SOUR GRAPES posting.


Ok. first of all: This is an open forum and Ill reply to whatever post I want to.
Secondly: you should calm down. We dont want this discussion to turn into a troll circus.
Thx.



rantanamo said:


> - True that you have more retractable fields and had them first. Congratulations.


Thank you! Yet its still only the Veltins arena and the Gelredome that have a moveable pitch in Europe.
The only stadium outside of europe with that feature would be the Sapporo Dome I guess.



rantanamo said:


> - False that you only play on grass. Disproven by posters here.
> - If the domes choose to play on grass, they can. The temporary grass pitch was approved by FIFA for the 1994 World Cup and is often used for friendlies. The tray system has also been used by some teams such as the New York teams and Houston Texans. Its not that difficult of a thing to do.


Partly true.
You would have a hard time finding an artificial grass pitch in the german Bundesliga, the spanish primera division or the italian Seria A.
However the english premier league has some.
Most of them are mixtures between natural and artificial grass.
In Germany for example it isnt allowed to play on anything else than natural grass.
Yet, some european companies have just come up with some great new prototypes of artificial grass, which basically have almost the same chracteristics as natural grass.



rantanamo said:


> - Building a dome is a lot more costly and structurally difficult than building a light material roof held up by guy wires or small concrete stand roofs.


Again I have to disagree. Saying that domes are generally more costly than comparable alternative stadiums is a cheap statement.
Lets take the Texas stadium for example (since you have brought that up before).
There are some forumers on this board who dont like this stadium.
Personally I like it. It may not have the nicest exterior but I think that the interior still looks classy. Its nicely balanced and looks quite clean.
And I think its one of the stadiums with the highest number of exec. boxes. (correct me if Im wrong)
However, if we look at the construction costs (~36 million dollars), it has to be said that this stadium came at a very cheap price.
Of course we have to keep in mind that back in 1971? the dollar had a bigger value. Still I would say that this stadium was probably nice value for money.
Comparable stadiums nowadays are far more expensive due to rising labour and material costs etc, etc..
But there are also modern domes that came at a very cheap price.
Take the Amsterdam Arena as an example.
I think it was the first stadium in europe with a retractable roof and one of the first domes in the world with a pitch of natural grass.
The arena was completed in 1996 at a cost of approx. 96 million Euros (122million $).
Is that expensive? I dont think so.
The newly renovated AOL arena in Hamburg for instance is a stadium comparable in size (~55k seats) yet it was probabaly a mere 20 million euros more expensive.
So your argument is flawed. 



rantanamo said:


> - For the football ignorant, Artificial turf is a faster playing surface for football(American Football).


Absolutely. And its the very reason why its not allowed in most leagues in europe.
As I said: In the last years new artificial grass ptototypes have been developed which basically have very similar chracteristics to normal grass.
But that has only been since recently and its one of the reasons why the german DFB is thinking about a future allowance for mixed turfs 



rantanamo said:


> - In colder climates, unless you're going to build a giant greenhouse, a retractable field probably won't do all that much for a proper playing surface. Would be funny for the Vikings to roll in a dead surface. That's probably why some of your Nordic countries play on artificial surfaces.).


Lol a greenhouse? I dont think so :lol:

You know, Gelsenkirchen (home to the Veltins arena) isnt exactly located in the Caribbians either.
In the wintertime you can get temperatures of up to -20 degrees.
What helps immensely in those situations is a pitch heating system I guess.(Every Bundesliga club in Germany is bound to have one)
Its built in just right under the field.
And no, you probably wont need a greenhouse to keep the pitch alive. 



rantanamo said:


> - NFL revenue sharing system(salary cap included). The NFL was not dominant until the last 10 years. Before it was like any other sport. Teams totally made their own revenue. You had the rich(Dallas, San Fran, Chicago, NY, Philly, Washington) and everyone else. Just look at the Superbowl champs from '85-95. They come from that rich list. Since free agency, revenue sharing and salary cap the NFL has surged with more equalized competition. More fan interest when more teams have an actual chance. Its simple and some greedy owners may hate it. You can say what you want, but again, your own countrymen here have been calling for it.


You are right. there are some people here who want to introduce a salary cap for the wages of the players.
Yet there are probably equally as many people here who dont want that.

Apart from that nobody here wants to adopt the NFL franchise system.
Its a system that doesnt know the words "relegation" and "promotion".
A system in which you splash out some money to set up your own sports franchise and then often finance new sportical infrastructures by taxpayers money. 
But youve probably heard it all before I guess....



rantanamo said:


> - Stadium design. I see it already and ties into the above.


So what is it that you "see" ? Care to give any recent examples?



rantanamo said:


> - The NFL can learn globalization better. The NBA has kicked their butt in that regard.


Im also sure that the german Basketball league can learn a hell of a lot from the NBA, but thats really something different.
Fact is, that european football has not got much to learn from anybody when it comes to global marketing, stadium constructions, innovations etc..



rantanamo said:


> I repeat...............The NFL is not the only football league in America. College football has greater attendance, but a much more fractured television audience, which reduces the worth per ad though it has a lot more teams(117). If you read any other threads you'd know the difference though. During the NFL season, you have the NBA, College Basketball, MLS, NHL, NASCAR and the Major League Baseball penant races, playoffs and World Series. These are all super popular in America and the NFL has to compete TV dollars with them during its own season. The NFL still crushes them all I know its hard to understand a non-soccer sport being that popular, but it just is, and it continues to increase its television revenue year after year. I'm sorry, I don't care what could be for a continent. I'm talking about the here and now for one nation and its popularity HERE. Don't care if you hate me or the sport. Its doing damn well for such a domestic sport. Sour Grapes!!!! Does anyone disagree?


I dont dissagree that the NFL is doing well in America. (On a global scale its a different matter though)
But the fact remains that the NFL is the only *professional* football league in the States. Correct?
I honestly dont know what you are trying to prove with your post.
Sure, there are many sports leagues in the states, but the same would apply to here.
Every european state has atlest two professional football leagues.
Thats just how it is. And since we all play the same sport we obviously have european competitions.
Those competitions just happen to be the biggest sports competitions in the world.The world cup, the european championship and the champions league are pretty much setting the standard for everybody else when it comes to TV veiwing figures, marketing, sponsoring etc, etc..



rantanamo said:


> GOD DAMNIT!!!! (not apologizing for that. these new posters come on here every year and drive me friggin mad) Have you ever read anything I've said denying that each continent borrows from each other. A lot of the stadiums are designed by the same people. I know from reading those last few paragraphs that you read NOTHING that I typed. Dude, you're arguing with the same examples I did for what was more European.


Ok, ""Dude"". The fact that you think that Im a new poster just proves that you didnt read my posts in this forum either.
Im posting here since quite a while. You would normally not find me in topics that deal with baseball stadiums or that kind, because Im not into these sort of sports.(Poor me)
Therefore you can hardly accuse me of not following every step that you make on this board. 



rantanamo said:


> Then you totally just flat out not understand. Dude, YOUR OWN COUNTRYMEN have complained on this board countless times about the American Football design that a place like Manchester City has. The same posters who ask why the hell doesn't Paul Brown Stadium have taller stands behind the endline. IT IS NOT AN AMERICAN INVENTION. SHEESH!!!!! Its a trend in money making, and stadiums builders are noticing it. GOD DAMNIT!!!!!!!


Well why doesn it? In europe the stands on the sidelines are surely better to watch a game. (Ive been to some games where my seat was behind the goals and imo it sucked bigtime)
Yet there are thousands of fans that are paying to watch a game even if they have to watch it from the ends of a pitch.

So why are the ends in an american stadiums just not being developed and disregarded?
Why not invest a little more and close the gap?
You could sell the seats for extra cheap prices, and those stadiums would look much better and the atmosphere would be much better too.
I respect that there are different normes in North america, yet for us it seems like a wasted opportunity to not develop these stands.
Honestly: What would you have to loose?
the worst thing that could happen is, that the stands in the ends wouldnt be booked out all the time.
Yet here in Europe they are 
btw: Im german. I dont know much about Manchster city and what it has to do with american designs.
Again you should give some examples.


----------



## Scba

^^

Well, there's Arena Football, which is pro and growing rapidly in popularity. But it isn't technically the same game.


----------



## 40Acres

Checker said:


> Ok. first of all: This is an open forum and Ill reply to whatever post I want to.
> Secondly: you should calm down. We dont want this discussion to turn into a troll circus.
> Thx.


In rantanamo's defense, he answers the exact question about 5 times a year, just by different posters. I'd be frustrated too if i had to put forth this much effort to quelch misinformation.






> Yet, some european companies have just come up with some great new prototypes of artificial grass, which basically have almost the same chracteristics as natural grass.


I don't know for sure if Americans invented it (likely not), but we've been using Field Turf since the middle of the last decade with incredible success. Surely someone is always looking to perfect the technology, but in places like Lincoln, Nebraska, the weather is too crappy and used too forcefully to last through the fall. Thus, they use Field Turf in an open-air stadium. They are also one of the wealthiest College Football Programs in the country, and have sold out their stadium for something like 30 years in a row. On gameday, the stadium is the 2nd largest city in Nebraska ... so, cost isn't the issue, but weather.































> Again I have to disagree. Saying that domes are generally more costly than comparable alternative stadiums is a cheap statement.
> Lets take the Texas stadium for example (since you have brought that up before).
> There are some forumers on this board who dont like this stadium.
> Personally I like it. It may not have the nicest exterior but I think that the interior still looks classy. Its nicely balanced and looks quite clean.
> And I think its one of the stadiums with the highest number of exec. boxes. (correct me if Im wrong)
> However, if we look at the construction costs (~36 million dollars), it has to be said that this stadium came at a very cheap price.
> Of course we have to keep in mind that back in 1971? the dollar had a bigger value. Still I would say that this stadium was probably nice value for money.
> Comparable stadiums nowadays are far more expensive due to rising labour and material costs etc, etc..



I'm as big a Dallas Cowboys fan as they come, but you should never use Texas Stadium as an arguement in good design. The Cowboys are the 4th most profitable sports franchise in the world, so cost isn't ever an issue. they also have a cutthroat billionaire as an owner, who is building a castle of a stadium. It will be the nicest stadium/complex in the world when it is finished.



> I dont dissagree that the NFL is doing well in America. (On a global scale its a different matter though)
> But the fact remains that the NFL is the only *professional* football league in the States. Correct?


No, its not. There are several other pro leagues in the US, though not as big. Also, College Football is for all intents and purposes PROFESSIONAL football. It is a money making giant, and probably the 2nd most popular sports league in the US. So, i'm not really getting your point here.




> Sure, there are many sports leagues in the states, but the same would apply to here.
> Every european state has atlest two professional football leagues.
> Thats just how it is. And since we all play the same sport we obviously have european competitions.


I would say there are 9 MAJOR sports leagues in america that intersect each other throughout the year. 

NCAA (college) Football
NCAA (college) Baskeball
National Basketball Association
National Football League
National Hockey League
Major League Baseball
Major League Soccer
Pro Golf Association
NASCAR Auto Racing

and various In fact, there are only TWO DAYS on the entire sports calander in the USA that does not have a major sporting event (the day before and the day after the MLB all-star game). In contrast, i think europe has less professional variance, but of course quite a large number of footy teams. Thats not really a comparison, competing with NBA playoffs vs. NHL playoffs vs. MLB regular season really isn't the same as competing with the Champions League vs. La Liga or the CL and the premeirship, especially since a lot of the teams and players are involved in both, and on different days of the week.




> So why are the ends in an american stadiums just not being developed and disregarded?
> Why not invest a little more and close the gap?
> You could sell the seats for extra cheap prices, and those stadiums would look much better and the atmosphere would be much better too.
> I respect that there are different normes in North america, yet for us it seems like a wasted opportunity to not develop these stands.
> Honestly: What would you have to loose?
> the worst thing that could happen is, that the stands in the ends wouldnt be booked out all the time.



Most NFL stadium have a baseline standard of around 60K-70K fans. Any more, and you are risking TV blackouts if you don't sell out your stadium, thus, it is important to A) make the views desirable to increase attendence B) Increase your marketability by insuring sell outs C) Create demand for season tickets, and thus increasing donations and seat price increases, by often selling out. 

Of course, you don't see that in College Football because there is a different type of fan ... that is, bare-bones, few ammenities, "I'll sit anywhere just to be a part of the atmosphere", fan ... even though this same fan may use his or her sunday to attend an NFL game and expect the more luxurious environment. I'm that type of fan. On Saturdays in Austin, I'm sitting in the endzone, hot as shit, drunk on smuggled rum, rowdy and bare chested, etc, but on Sundays in Dallas, I expect to sit in the middle tier on the 35 yard line, drinking $8 beers, surrounded by fans wearing polo shirts, and excitable only during big plays. The NFL is a whole different animal when it comes to building stadiums and cater 100% to their fan base. This is why endzone seats are limited, and are actually parts of the stadium reserved for the so-called rowdy fans of the NFL (e.g., the Cleveland Dog Pound)


----------



## GNU

40Acres said:


> In rantanamo's defense, he answers the exact question about 5 times a year, just by different posters. I'd be frustrated too if i had to put forth this much effort to quelch misinformation.


He might be frustrated about it, but it was him who brought the topic up in the first place in our discussion 




40Acres said:


> I don't know for sure if Americans invented it (likely not), but we've been using Field Turf since the middle of the last decade with incredible success. Surely someone is always looking to perfect the technology, but in places like Lincoln, Nebraska, the weather is too crappy and used too forcefully to last through the fall. Thus, they use Field Turf in an open-air stadium. They are also one of the wealthiest College Football Programs in the country, and have sold out their stadium for something like 30 years in a row. On gameday, the stadium is the 2nd largest city in Nebraska ... so, cost isn't the issue, but weather.


Im sure that Turf is a great success in the states. American football is a sport that can be played on almost any kind of soft surface. Even on a professional level.
On top of that its cheap. you wont have to worry about the pitch not getting enough air, water or sunshine. It just doesnt matter.
you can put it in the darkest dome in the world and it wouldnt change anything.
On the other hand, the pitch in a football stadium is hugely important.
The chracteristics of the pitch are very importnat.
As rantamo pointed out earlier: a turf generally increases the speed of the game.
A ball would run and bounce off much more quickly than on natural grass.
This is one of the major reasons why it isnt allowed in many football leagues.
It would change the chracteristics of the game.
Its also the reason why you dont see so many domes in Europe as in America or Japan.
Reason being is, that until a decade ago it was very difficult and costly to keep a natural grass pitch in perfect condition in a conventional dome.
The amsterdam arena was one of the first domes in the world to feature a natural pitch. Yet, until this day the club has huge problems. They have to change the pitch several times a year because the grass wont get enough air in the bowl.



40Acres said:


> I'm as big a Dallas Cowboys fan as they come, but you should never use Texas Stadium as an arguement in good design. The Cowboys are the 4th most profitable sports franchise in the world, so cost isn't ever an issue. they also have a cutthroat billionaire as an owner, who is building a castle of a stadium. It will be the nicest stadium/complex in the world when it is finished.


Well, I was just saying that I personally quite like the interior of the Texas Stadium.
Of course opinions differ here.
There are certainly more beautiful stadiums around, yet I wouldnt say that it is a bad looking stadium.




40Acres said:


> No, its not. There are several other pro leagues in the US, though not as big. Also, College Football is for all intents and purposes PROFESSIONAL football. It is a money making giant, and probably the 2nd most popular sports league in the US. So, i'm not really getting your point here.


but the players that are playing College football are students arent they?
They are therefore not professional athletes.



40Acres said:


> Most NFL stadium have a baseline standard of around 60K-70K fans. Any more, and you are risking TV blackouts if you don't sell out your stadium, thus, it is important to A) make the views desirable to increase attendence B) Increase your marketability by insuring sell outs C) Create demand for season tickets, and thus increasing donations and seat price increases, by often selling out.


Ok, fair enough. If you are telling me that the average limit in stadium constructions is 60k-70k than thats fine.
I would just imagine that it wouldnt cost much more to raise the stands in the endzone.
and on the other hand there are big stadiums without a horsehoe design that are doing just fine.
Like for example the Reliant stadium.
why does it work there and not in other places?


----------



## rantanamo

Checker, I know you just want to battle all day and criticize everything done in America when it comes to stadiums, but you keep ignoring some obvious answers.

U.S. Stadium design = highly specialized. We're past our dome era. We're past our technology for the sake of tecnhology stage. At the same time, there is no UEFA or FIFA trying to dictate what they want from a stadium. Its all market and event driven. You ask, why does it work at Reliant or other symetrical designs. Well, you have to look at USE above all things. Reliant is not a football specific venue. It was actually built for their rodeo, and to host Final Fours and other large indoor conventions and events. Might it hamper them from charging max numbers at max prices like Qwest or Paul Brown? Yes, but it allows them to have other events. That's their choice vs designing a football specific stadium. Of course a stadium in the NFL will do fine. Its the NFL. They'd sell out a grassy hillside at $40 per ticket. We're not saying its illegal or inferior to design symetrical stands. We're saying there are other opportunities to be had from not designing symmetrically.

And yes, we understand college football players are students. If you watch college football, you understand its borderline ridiculous to argue the semantics of professional vs amateur in this case. The correct wording should be Major sport. It is competition for the NFL. Its on major television, has larger attendance number than the NFL, and there is plenty of age overlap of guys that continue to play college football, who could be in the NFL. The point is its competition and is more than a major sport. How can a sport, professional or amateur, that has higher attendance than the NFL, and has age overlap not be considered competition? The NFL is just smart enough to promote harmony between the two, unlike the NBA, who's owners seem to want college basketball dead.

Texas Stadium was designed in the 60s and its bowl still kicks the crap out of 80-90% of the world. These are its last 3 seasons though.

You argue turfs like some try to argue roofs here. Its just a different game. Surface doesn't matter as much, and difference in the NFL is celebrated from venue to venue, as long as the NFL approves the surface. You see more domes in Japan because it rains during baseball season a lot. You see more domes in America because there are more multi-use facilities. Both nations also happened to be the top two economic powers during the 'dome era', so cost was not as much of an issue.

And yes I'm frustrated. I only bring up stuff here, because I read millions of lines about the ignorance that is the American citizen, yet I read some very ignorant statements about America all the time. If I can better answer some of the charges, I'm going to. My problem is, you can usually read a few threads down, especially when an American stadium or group of stadiums, and get answers. Instead they are usually the least read threads here because its easier to say, Americans = ignorant, American sport = ignorants, American stadium design must = ignorant.


----------



## David Byrne

My girlfriend is American. What do you think of her?


----------



## GNU

rantanamo said:


> Checker, I know you just want to battle all day and criticize everything done in America when it comes to stadiums,


I dont. If my aim would be to criticise everything that is being done in America, well then you would probably find me in all those threads that deal with american sports.
Yet you dont. 
Then again its critizism that keeps this board going. Right?
If everybody would just say: Hey, thats great, fantastic etc.. then this board would be incredibly boring and uninteresting.



rantanamo said:


> U.S. Stadium design = highly specialized. We're past our dome era. We're past our technology for the sake of tecnhology stage. At the same time, there is no UEFA or FIFA trying to dictate what they want from a stadium. Its all market and event driven.


I think this is a bit harsh. The FIFA basically puts up a minimum of rules to increase the safety and comfort of a stadium.
It is not "dictating" to anyone how their stadiums are going to be constructed and how they should look like.
Im sure you know very well that you'll find all kinds of stadiums in europe.
The diversity is simply huge.
The market here dictates the design of a stadium aswell.



rantanamo said:


> You ask, why does it work at Reliant or other symetrical designs. Well, you have to look at USE above all things. Reliant is not a football specific venue. It was actually built for their rodeo, and to host Final Fours and other large indoor conventions and events. Might it hamper them from charging max numbers at max prices like Qwest or Paul Brown? Yes, but it allows them to have other events. That's their choice vs designing a football specific stadium. Of course a stadium in the NFL will do fine. Its the NFL. They'd sell out a grassy hillside at $40 per ticket. We're not saying its illegal or inferior to design symetrical stands. We're saying there are other opportunities to be had from not designing symmetrically.


But there are many other venues which are "closed". Soldier Field for example.Sure the sideline stands are higher than the endzone stands, yet there *are* endzone stands.
Take the Gillette stadium for example. Why not put up a simple higher stand at the end of the pitch?
Whats wrong with that? Sell it for cheap prices and youll still have a full house.And you make more profit.
Honestly: It works here in Europe so I dont see any reason why it shouldnt work in the US.



rantanamo said:


> And yes, we understand college football players are students. If you watch college football, you understand its borderline ridiculous to argue the semantics of professional vs amateur in this case. The correct wording should be Major sport. It is competition for the NFL. Its on major television, has larger attendance number than the NFL, and there is plenty of age overlap of guys that continue to play college football, who could be in the NFL. The point is its competition and is more than a major sport. How can a sport, professional or amateur, that has higher attendance than the NFL, and has age overlap not be considered competition? The NFL is just smart enough to promote harmony between the two, unlike the NBA, who's owners seem to want college basketball dead.


I never argued against the popularity of College Football.
Yet its not a professional sport. But thats probably also the reason why so many people want to watch it. It offers something different from the polished, franchise set-up NFL.
The fans of a College team probably know very well that their team is closely connected to tradition and history.
No billionaire can come along and snatch a team away and built it up somewhere else.
I guess thats the reason why its so popular.



rantanamo said:


> Texas Stadium was designed in the 60s and its bowl still kicks the crap out of 80-90% of the world.


I doubt that it would "kick the crap out 80-90% of the world". Its just too old for that.
But as I said: Yes, its a nice stadium with a beautiful interior. 



rantanamo said:


> You argue turfs like some try to argue roofs here. Its just a different game. Surface doesn't matter as much, and difference in the NFL is celebrated from venue to venue, as long as the NFL approves the surface. You see more domes in Japan because it rains during baseball season a lot. You see more domes in America because there are more multi-use facilities. Both nations also happened to be the top two economic powers during the 'dome era', so cost was not as much of an issue.


Once again: Europe is no sunshine state (or continent). It often rains here, even though not as much as in Japan during the rain-season.
That said: Domes arent really popular here either.
In fact theyve never been.
One major reason was, that you couldnt grow natural grass in domes.
And as you rightly pointed out:
Yes, american football and football are two different sports.
The condition of the pitch is obviously more important in Football.
Btw: You shouldnt argue that america and Japan were the top two economic powers during the dome era and that it has much to do with stadium construction.
Economic success has not that much to do with stadium constructions.
Germany is the 3rd biggest economy in the world (and has been since Japan overtook us somewhen in the 70s) yet we used to disregard our stadiums quite a lot until the 90s.
Nowadays Im sure that Germany has better arenas and stadiums than Japan.

Another example: Italy. The worlds 6th largest economy. their stadiums are outdated and no money has been invested in the infrastructure in the last 16 years.
Portugal, the poorest country in western Europe however has magnificent venues in contrast to its small population.



rantanamo said:


> And yes I'm frustrated. I only bring up stuff here, because I read millions of lines about the ignorance that is the American citizen, yet I read some very ignorant statements about America all the time. If I can better answer some of the charges, I'm going to. My problem is, you can usually read a few threads down, especially when an American stadium or group of stadiums, and get answers. Instead they are usually the least read threads here because its easier to say, Americans = ignorant, American sport = ignorants, American stadium design must = ignorant.


Again: Ive never argued in that way. Im curious and if I dont understand or like something Im going to investigate and critisize.
But to be honest: How much info would you get on an american board considering european venues.
It would be the same thing.
Ive also came across a lot of ignorance from american forumers.
In the end its all balanced out I guess


----------



## victory

David Byrne said:


> My girlfriend is American. What do you think of her?


I think the sex would be painful.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

Doc Halladay said:


> One of the best NFL games I've ever seen...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably one of the most controversial as well.


please dont remind me!!
:bash:  uke: :wallbash: :wallbash: :badnews: :mad2: :evil:  :devil:


----------



## Kngkyle

*Detroit for 2016 Olympics?*

No, i havent read anything saying that they are interested. But i was thinking about how they have pretty much everything needed. (Well, they would need to improve mass transit, but thats about it).

They have:
Ford Field which holds 70,000 people which could be used for opening and closing ceremony.








Then theres the Michigan Stadium in Ann Arbor, the largest stadium in the united states having 111,000 seats -- could also be used for the opening and closing ceremony. It was recently renovated, i think this is an old picture.








Comerica Park for baseball if that is reinstated. It holds 40,950 people. 








Joe Louis Arena (Home of the Detroit Red Wings hockey), holds 20,058 people. 








Detroit is on Lake Erie which could be used for some events.

---
This could turn Detroits depression around and put it on the map. 

Of course, it likely wont happen, just wanted to mention it. 

EDIT: I should add that all of Detroit Metro Airport is being redone already.

EDIT2: Found something on a news site on the subject.
"As for the Olympics, which could be one of the first held in two different countries if Windsor were included in a bid, that's a much longer shot, said Kilpatrick.

"But it's a hell of an idea," the Mayor said"


----------



## staff

Do they have an athletic stadium? Is there room for running tracks at the above American Football stadiums (which look really bad by the way )?

I think many cities in the world have the same kind of institutions, that Detroit has, already actually.


----------



## ReddAlert

Why do you have to rag on Detroit--calling it a shithole? Detroit is pretty fucked up in parts--but its still a liveable city. There are many parts of the city (as seen in hudkinas photos) that are good and beautiful with street life.


----------



## Scba

Yeah, they do need one. The Metrodome isn't half bad for football, but has never fit baseball well at all. 

And rain isn't an issue at games usually, unless you're on a coast. If the rain is hard enough, the game is halted. If you're in the stands, you either bring an umbrella or poncho, or head into the concourses.


----------



## Calvin W

Nice looking stadium, but nothing special or unique? It is a big improvement over the Metrodome.
What is the time table for it anyone? I will be down this summer to catch a few games, but will come back in a few years if/when this is built.


----------



## reluminate

skaP187 said:


> nice design. very nice. Specialy with the views to the citycentre, I like it! not to big, but far from small. Only the rooth is, is it not to small, or is it normall in the US to sit and watch the game in the rain? (I do not know a lot about the climate there to be hounest)


Baseball can't be played in the rain, so the lack of roof isn't an issue. Baseball is played in the spring/summer/early fall, so the weather is great. Excluding domed stadiums or stadiums with retractable roofs, it's unheard of to have large roofs on baseball stadiums (or any stadiums for that matter). American's simply dislike roofs, and perfer the open feeling. In situations where weather is an issue (which isn't so common), stadiums usually have retractable roofs.


----------



## Schindlers Fist

All these Baseball stadiums look the same, as do all the cities in the background!!

and none of the big Gridiron stadiums have roofs on them!! It's a shame they can't afford to build roofs as they would look great if they had the money to finish them.


----------



## Bigmac1212

Schindlers Fist said:


> and none of the big Gridiron stadiums have roofs on them!! It's a shame they can't afford to build roofs as they would look great if they had the money to finish them.


Geez, is it manditory to have roofs on stadiums? I may be biased, but it's nice to have football/soccer facilities without roofs.


----------



## dmg1mn

I'm excited about it.


----------



## hudkina

Actually, I'd say it's the opposite. About 20% of the city is rundown with the other 80% in fair, decent, or immaculate shape. The reason people seem to think that 80% of the city is "ghetto" is due to the fact that the majority of the rundown neighborhoods are in the core of the city. Most of the west side and far east side are very suburban in nature and where much of Detroit's large black middle class lives.

These are what the average Detroit neighborhoods look like from above:


----------



## nomarandlee

asohn said:


> Baseball can't be played in the rain, so the lack of roof isn't an issue. Baseball is played in the spring/summer/early fall, so the weather is great. Excluding domed stadiums or stadiums with retractable roofs, it's unheard of to have large roofs on baseball stadiums (or any stadiums for that matter). American's simply dislike roofs, and perfer the open feeling. In situations where weather is an issue (which isn't so common), stadiums usually have retractable roofs.



Oh brother hno: They are likely the most unique individualistic major stadiums in the world. Yet another who doesn't know what the fark he is talking about.


----------



## nomarandlee

Anyone got renderings for the Gophers new stadium? That is pretty unique. Very large football collge programs rarely get brand new stadiums this day in age. In fact I can't remember the last one to get its own new stadium off the top of my head (at least since I can remember which would be the early 80's)


----------



## Tom Ace

the Gophers new stadium isn't offical yet. There are still 3 different designs. And actually they are going to be presented in some way at the school tommorow.

http://www1.umn.edu/stadium/index.php


----------



## 40Acres

Schindlers Fist said:


> All these Baseball stadiums look the same, as do all the cities in the background!!
> 
> and none of the big Gridiron stadiums have roofs on them!! It's a shame they can't afford to build roofs as they would look great if they had the money to finish them.


see signature


----------



## XCRunner

No roof in Minnesotta... they better not plan on having many fans in April and a good chunk of May.


----------



## Scba

XCRunner said:


> No roof in Minnesotta... they better not plan on having many fans in April and a good ***** of May.


...chunk, you mean.


----------



## NFLeuropefan

OK......... what the hell do those photos prove??? A lot of things look decent from the air..... Even if the homes are OK, the crime and actual neighborhoods are terrible.....


----------



## NFLeuropefan

Big Jedi Knight said:


> Why are people on these forums terrified of admitting a city is shit. There are shit cities in the world, that's the reality of life. Let's have enough of this PC crap where we must never admit something is rubbish!!
> 
> Face facts, Detroit is a shithole, and no mickey mouse photos will change that!! You can't polish a turd!!
> 
> 
> What next??......Come to Mogadishu.......it's great!!



Thank you, LOL


----------



## NFLeuropefan

Tom Ace said:


> the Gophers new stadium isn't offical yet. There are still 3 different designs. And actually they are going to be presented in some way at the school tommorow.
> 
> http://www1.umn.edu/stadium/index.php


I'm pretty sure it's official.... From that link it looks like it is.......


----------



## Arttera

...


----------



## Arttera

:wave: Detroit it's a huge shit hole . The biggest in US and its not very pretty one , but change its on the way and city got everything ready. 
whatever you looking for, gone find all in Detroit. :cheers2:


----------



## dANIEL2004

Its an ugly city.......


----------



## mauritius gunner

this probably has been asked before but are any of these grounds designed to be expanded in years to come, should the need arise?


----------



## yure323

AKing said:


> Ive heard football(soccer)interest is growing in the US, is it true?
> 
> What you should do is to start a North American champions league. And get real LEAGUES. With promotion-relegation and qualifications to the champions league.
> 
> I hardly see a world wide champions league anytime soon even though it would be a dream ^^.


There is the CONCACAF champions cup, which is kinda like the North American champions league. Pro/Rel will probably never happen in the US, it might happen in 20 years maybe...


----------



## yure323

mauritius gunner said:


> this probably has been asked before but are any of these grounds designed to be expanded in years to come, should the need arise?


Yes, all the stadiums that have been or will be built are expandable, most of them are expandable to around 30,000.
BTW, Chicago Fire's new stadium is opening on June 11th, their stadium is going to be a real beauty.
Pics : http://chicago.fire.mlsnet.com/MLS/chf/stadium/bridgeview/


----------



## victory

AKing said:


> Ive heard football(soccer)interest is growing in the US, is it true?
> 
> What you should do is to start a North American champions league. And get real LEAGUES. With promotion-relegation and qualifications to the champions league.


They do have real leagues, just not in European format, but the USA is not Europe.

Promotion and relegation would never work out in North America, for many reasons.


----------



## jeicow

BostonSkyGuy said:


> Toronto's looks very...half-assed. Doesn't seem like they put much effort into designing it. Hopefully it changes, but I won't hold my breath.


I doubt it will change either. All politics. There was suppose to be a larger, probably nicer stadium built at York University but that fell through. Then I believe there was another proposal for one at The University of Toronto but it went no where too. The city needed the stadium to be built by 2007 b/c of the U-23 World Soccer Championship said they'd relocate the final matches to Edmonton if TO didn't get a stadium done. 

The owner's of it are MLSE (Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment) already owns the prime concert venue in the city ACC (Air Canada Centre), so a covered stadium would probably not see any use during the winter so we get our craptacular open air SSS which will likely end up getting into financial difficulties if the MLS team doesn't work out. I hope that they do something to it to make it more "nice" but I seriously doubt it. Except for people who are interested in this project, not many people in TO actually know it's u/c which sucks. A UFT location would have made it more central to downtown but we end up with this one on the exhibition grouns. Go figure.


----------



## yure323

BostonSkyGuy said:


> I really hope they build a soccer specific stadium here in Boston/New England. The Revolution are a good team (by MLS standards anyways) and hopefully the following around here will grow to where Bob Kraft (owner of the Revolution and Patriots) will build a stadium adjacent to Gillette. It would really help the MLS IMO--to have one of their better teams have a soccer specific stadium.
> 
> I really like Vancouver's stadium, not only for the stadium itself but for the backdrop. Toronto's looks very...half-assed. Doesn't seem like they put much effort into designing it. Hopefully it changes, but I won't hold my breath.


The owner of the NE Revs said that they will build a soccer stadium in the future, it's probably going to be adjacent to Gillette, but they're going to look at Boston first, but i doubt they could build a stadium there, and besides Kraft already ownes land around in Foxboro.


----------



## Breakwood

Rochester's PAETEC Park opened up last night. For the USL-1 game between Rochester and Virginia Beach. USL-1 is a level below MLS, but is not affiliated.


----------



## nomarandlee

yure323 said:


> Yes, all the stadiums that have been or will be built are expandable, most of them are expandable to around 30,000.
> BTW, Chicago Fire's new stadium is opening on June 11th, their stadium is going to be a real beauty.
> Pics : http://chicago.fire.mlsnet.com/MLS/chf/stadium/bridgeview/



It looks nice I just wish it was closer to downtown and central city. Even though its close to the city limits it has a suburban based orientation.


----------



## yure323

nomarandlee said:


> It looks nice I just wish it was closer to downtown and central city. Even though its close to the city limits it has a suburban based orientation.


Bridgeview will pay 100% of the stadium cost, i doubt Chicago would give any money for a stadium.


----------



## nomarandlee

True, also they want big car lots for suburban families instead of a more mass transit city but still would have liked to see it closer to downtown. 

Just from a personal standpoint it would have been nice to see them build on one of those UC lots (with possiable future Pink line service) and have it become the start of a real close to downtown sports complex. 

But hopefully Brideview will be a good base to receive as much of their fan base as possible. Having a town fit the bill for a stadium is no small incentive I just hope that long term it is best for the club.


----------



## mrtocsin

If Americans finally get the football bug and it will take a long time, they will be able to get players that will truely dominate the international scene. I don't expect a good USA football team until around 2024, but by then look out Brazil.


----------



## ReddAlert

There is some interest to build an urban soccer stadium in downtown Milwaukee. While not a huge fan, I would love to see it. I already have a perfect team name, colors, and logo if we get one.


----------



## spyguy

mrtocsin said:


> If Americans finally get the football bug and it will take a long time, they will be able to get players that will truely dominate the international scene. I don't expect a good USA football team until around 2024, but by then look out Brazil.


Well I know there are a few like Beckham and Ronaldo who want to build a career in the US, so that might help.


----------



## Wezza

Some nice little stadiums there. But i have to admit, these sponsorship deals with large corporations are getting out of hand........Pizza Hut Park???? LMAO What next?


----------



## ReddAlert

Wezza said:


> Some nice little stadiums there. But i have to admit, these sponsorship deals with large corporations are getting out of hand........Pizza Hut Park???? LMAO What next?


thats nothing. Ever heard of Taco Bell Arena? How about Petco Park?


----------



## nomarandlee

ReddAlert said:


> There is some interest to build an urban soccer stadium in downtown Milwaukee. While not a huge fan, I would love to see it. I already have a perfect team name, colors, and logo if we get one.



That could make a good rivalry for the Fire if that ever happened. If KC, SLC, or Columbus can handle a team Milwaukee sure as heck could. What downtown locations have been thrown around?

Throw out the ideas for your Milwaukee team Redd. I want to hear em'.


----------



## nomarandlee

Wezza said:


> Some nice little stadiums there. But i have to admit, these sponsorship deals with large corporations are getting out of hand........Pizza Hut Park???? LMAO What next?



As long as U.S. sports teams never go the way of the way of big corporate logo's on uniforms for its soccer teams (or any pro sports team for that matter) I'll make due. I find it odd that people rip on U.S. sports and leagues for being over commercialized (which they are) for me that is by far the biggest sell out to commercialism in sports one can have. With how anti-corporate some Europeans can be I am surprised more don't show indignation over it.

The day that the United, Allstate, or Motorola logo goes on instead of the Bears, Bulls, or Cubs is the day I very likely will refuse to keep watching pro sports.

I do have a dope old Newcastle United jersey though that has the Newcastle Brown Ale logo which is one of my favorite beers.


----------



## BaronVonChickenpants

Wezza said:


> Some nice little stadiums there. But i have to admit, these sponsorship deals with large corporations are getting out of hand........Pizza Hut Park???? LMAO What next?





what,like the Dairy Farmers Staduim?


----------



## BaronVonChickenpants

nomarandlee said:


> As long as U.S. sports teams never go the way of the way of big corporate logo's on uniforms for its soccer teams (or any pro sports team for that matter) I'll make due. I find it odd that people rip on U.S. sports and leagues for being over commercialized (which they are) for me that is by far the biggest sell out to commercialism in sports one can have. With how anti-corporate some Europeans can be I am surprised more don't show indignation over it.
> 
> The day that the United, Allstate, or Motorola logo goes on instead of the Bears, Bulls, or Cubs is the day I very likely will refuse to keep watching pro sports.
> 
> I do have a dope old Newcastle United jersey though that has the Newcastle Brown Ale logo which is one of my favorite beers.






i'd rather have adverstising on my teams shirt,than it being called a "franchise",and the team being upped and moved hundreds of miles to a differant part of the country when the owner felt like it


----------



## nomarandlee

BaronVonChickenpants said:


> i'd rather have adverstising on my teams shirt,than it being called a "franchise",and the team being upped and moved hundreds of miles to a differant part of the country when the owner felt like it



None of my favorite teams are likely to go anywhere anytime soon if ever so I am not really concerned about it.

Regardless, no matter what the defensive throwback jabs the idea of commercialized jerseys is dreadful.


----------



## victory

BaronVonChickenpants said:


> what,like the Dairy Farmers Staduim?


Subiaco was nearly re-named 'Crazy Johns Stadium' in an advertising deal, now that is ridiculous.




BaronVonChickenpants said:


> i'd rather have adverstising on my teams shirt,than it being called a "franchise",and the team being upped and moved hundreds of miles to a differant part of the country when the owner felt like it


I agree.


And I dony see any problem with advetising on jerseys.


----------



## BaronVonChickenpants

victory said:


> Subiaco was nearly re-named 'Crazy Johns Stadium' in an advertising deal, now that is ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree.
> 
> 
> And I dony see any problem with advetising on jerseys.





i think its all dependant on what sponsor you get,as long as its a well known brand,with a good name

unfortunaltey in the UK,we have succumbed to the naming of grounds.York City's ground,formerly Bootham Crescent,is now KIT-KAT Crescent!!!!!!


----------



## BaronVonChickenpants

nomarandlee said:


> None of my favorite teams are likely to go anywhere anytime soon if ever so I am not really concerned about it.
> 
> Regardless, no matter what the defensive throwback jabs the idea of commercialized jerseys is dreadful.




"are likely to"?????? ...............aren't you sure???
this shouldn't happen full stop.In the UK,a team is part of the local community.Football teams founded in the late 1800's we made up of boy's/men from the local factories/mines/mills,or boys clubs formed in the local area.They are as much a part of community as anything else


----------



## Wezza

BaronVonChickenpants said:


> what,like the Dairy Farmers Staduim?


Yeah exactly!! I think it's ridiculous! I'm the first to admit that Dairy Farmers Stadium is a stupid name, probably on par with Pizza Hut Park, Taco Bell Arena & Home Depot Centre.


----------



## yure323

ReddAlert said:


> There is some interest to build an urban soccer stadium in downtown Milwaukee. While not a huge fan, I would love to see it. I already have a perfect team name, colors, and logo if we get one.


Peter Wilt, former GM of the Chicago Fire is trying to get a soccer stadium built in Milwaukee, he was the guy that got Bridgeview stadium approved, the big difference now is that Milwaukee's stadium is going ( if it gets built ) to be 100% privately funded.


----------



## yure323

Wezza said:


> Yeah exactly!! I think it's ridiculous! I'm the first to admit that Dairy Farmers Stadium is a stupid name, probably on par with Pizza Hut Park, Taco Bell Arena & Home Depot Centre.


BTW, Bridgeview stadium will probably be called Toyota stadium, which is way better than the ones above.


----------



## yure323

mrtocsin said:


> If Americans finally get the football bug and it will take a long time, they will be able to get players that will truely dominate the international scene. I don't expect a good USA football team until around 2024, but by then look out Brazil.


Presently about half of MLS clubs have youth acadamies, but they're hoping that in 1 or 2 years every team will have one. I think that will be great for developing talent.
More : http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/special_packages/world_cup/14732286.htm


----------



## Wezza

yure323 said:


> BTW, Bridgeview stadium will probably be called Toyota stadium, which is way better than the ones above.


Yeah thats not too bad, but i still don't agree with it. Suncorp Stadium in Brisbane used to be Lang Park, it still basically is to everyone, Suncorp Stadium just it's corporate nickname. Gotta move with the times i suppose. 

P.S. Sorry for going O/T.


----------



## 40Acres

BaronVonChickenpants said:


> i'd rather have adverstising on my teams shirt,than it being called a "franchise",and the team being upped and moved hundreds of miles to a differant part of the country when the owner felt like it


I don't think you know how the system works in the US, although you like to pretend that you do. The term "franchise" only means that it is a franchise of the NFL/MLB/NBA/NHL/MLS office. These teams can only move locations with something like 75% approval from the other owners and 100% of the league office, and only under extenuating circumstances like abismal attendence, lack of funding from the host cities (arenas, stadiums), or general apathy. Either way, its basically the fault of the city if a franchise moves (Cleveland and Baltimore aside) ... its not like franchises in any of the sports move year to year. You'll never see entrenched teams like the Red Sox or Cubs move to Key West or something like that. Plus, with the country being so huge, and the constant influx of talent into the country from Europe (NBA/NHL) and Aisa/Latin America (MLB), expansion of the league is more likely than relocation. Hell, the league won't even let the saints or hornets move from New Orleans.

Oh, and the US DOES have a club-style system ... its called college athletics, which have been playing sanctioned sports since the mid 1800s. 

I can't wait to see more MLS expansion in the near future. Soccer is huge in certain pockets of the USA, like the southwest (Dallas, San Antonio, Phoenix), the Midwest (St. Louis, Chicago, Milwuakee, K.C., Cleveland, Cincy, Columbus), Southern Cal (LA, San Diego), the Northwest (Seattle, Portland), the South (Miami, Orlando, Birmingham, Atlanta, Charlotte, Charlottesville, Memphis), and the northeast (D.C., Boston, NY, Albany, Pittsburg, Philly).

I would love to see a SSS in Phoenix, with a retractable roof, somewhere in the lakefront of Tempe, downtown Scottsdale, or downtown Phoenix near the US Airways Center.


----------



## yure323

^^ MLS expansion :
Toronto 2007 100%
Cleveland, St.Louis and Philadelphia are the most likely candidates for 2007 or 2008, with Cleveland being the most likely IMO. San Jose's return also seems likely, because Wolff ( owner of the Oakland A's ) already bought rights for a MLS franchise. Vancouver will probably go to MLS in 2010 or later.
Cities with an outside chance : Millwaukee, Rochester, Atlanta, San Diego.
Or maybe come city is going to come out of left field like Salt Lake in 2005.


----------



## ReddAlert

nomarandlee said:


> That could make a good rivalry for the Fire if that ever happened. If KC, SLC, or Columbus can handle a team Milwaukee sure as heck could. What downtown locations have been thrown around?
> 
> Throw out the ideas for your Milwaukee team Redd. I want to hear em'.


Yeah, I also think it would be a pretty nice rivalry. Milwaukee has a large Latino community with connections to Chicago--that could make for some interesting games. 

The locations I heard of are in the Park East corridor, the near Southside, and the Third Ward--in the Italian Community Center lot. The last one would be the best in my opinion. It is already a dense area with alot of life...which could help for ticket sales. Plus, it would be right next to Summerfest and Lake Michigan. The views from the stands would be incredible--views of L. Michigan, the Art Museum, and the downtown skyline. Retail and condos I believe were apart of this project--which could help this along. Oh and many Third Ward condos are being bought up by people down in Chicagoland--which could also add a little bit to a rivalry. 

here is a picture of the area..


and for the logo and colors....I whipped this up. The logo is actually from Sprecher, a local brewery...but I think the logo should be similar to theirs--a Griffin like creature.


----------



## ReddAlert

yure323 said:


> Peter Wilt, former GM of the Chicago Fire is trying to get a soccer stadium built in Milwaukee, he was the guy that got Bridgeview stadium approved, the big difference now is that Milwaukee's stadium is going ( if it gets built ) to be 100% privately funded.


yeah, that would be the kicker. Getting the taxpayers to pay for Miller Park was a hassle and a new arena for the Bucks is facing an uphill battle. A soccer stadium would most likely be shot down faster than an X-Wing in the Death Star trench. 

I have read a bit about this Wilt and he seems very committed to this. I hope we see something done.


----------



## datilguy

Albuquerque and other southwestern citie might get teams. Soccer is very popular here (not just among the Hispanic population but also among everyone). The UNM soccer team did very well and is extremely popular...and Albuquerque has the ABQ Asylum and used to have a pro womens team. 

Albuquerque, Phoenix and El Paso could all support teams I'm sure.


----------



## BaronVonChickenpants

40Acres said:


> I don't think you know how the system works in the US, although you like to pretend that you do. The term "franchise" only means that it is a franchise of the NFL/MLB/NBA/NHL/MLS office. These teams can only move locations with something like 75% approval from the other owners and 100% of the league office, and only under extenuating circumstances like abismal attendence, lack of funding from the host cities (arenas, stadiums), or general apathy. Either way, its basically the fault of the city if a franchise moves (Cleveland and Baltimore aside) ... its not like franchises in any of the sports move year to year. You'll never see entrenched teams like the Red Sox or Cubs move to Key West or something like that. Plus, with the country being so huge, and the constant influx of talent into the country from Europe (NBA/NHL) and Aisa/Latin America (MLB), expansion of the league is more likely than relocation. Hell, the league won't even let the saints or hornets move from New Orleans.
> 
> Oh, and the US DOES have a club-style system ... its called college athletics, which have been playing sanctioned sports since the mid 1800s.
> 
> I can't wait to see more MLS expansion in the near future. Soccer is huge in certain pockets of the USA, like the southwest (Dallas, San Antonio, Phoenix), the Midwest (St. Louis, Chicago, Milwuakee, K.C., Cleveland, Cincy, Columbus), Southern Cal (LA, San Diego), the Northwest (Seattle, Portland), the South (Miami, Orlando, Birmingham, Atlanta, Charlotte, Charlottesville, Memphis), and the northeast (D.C., Boston, NY, Albany, Pittsburg, Philly).
> 
> I would love to see a SSS in Phoenix, with a retractable roof, somewhere in the lakefront of Tempe, downtown Scottsdale, or downtown Phoenix near the US Airways Center.





i didn't say i knew how things worked,did i?but fact,teams have been moved to other cities.Yes or no?doesn't matter about the circumstances,how agrees to it,etc etc......teams get moved....full stop.


----------



## Telfordboy

Yeah teams shouldn't be allowed to move its wrong wrong wrong. When Wimbledon moved they became one of the most hated teams in England and they don't even get good attendence at their new home. The worst case of the naming rights to a stadium has to be The Emirates Stadium, i couuldn't believe it when i heard that Arsenal with some of the most famous history and tradition in England had done it. I think i'll just call it The Grove or something.


----------



## victory

Wezza said:


> Yeah thats not too bad, but i still don't agree with it. Suncorp Stadium in Brisbane used to be Lang Park, it still basically is to everyone, Suncorp Stadium just it's corporate nickname. Gotta move with the times i suppose.
> 
> P.S. Sorry for going O/T.


And sorry for continuing this Ot trip...

My solution would be to name it "Suncorp Stadium at Lang Park".


----------



## CharlieA

Telfordboy said:


> Yeah teams shouldn't be allowed to move its wrong wrong wrong. When Wimbledon moved they became one of the most hated teams in England and they don't even get good attendence at their new home. The worst case of the naming rights to a stadium has to be The Emirates Stadium, i couuldn't believe it when i heard that Arsenal with some of the most famous history and tradition in England had done it. I think i'll just call it The Grove or something.


I'll gonna call it Ashburton, no way am I referring to it as "The Emirates"!


----------



## Telfordboy

CharlieA said:


> I'll gonna call it Ashburton, no way am I referring to it as "The Emirates"!


Good lad. 
One thing i don't like about a lot of these US stadiums is that the stands behind the goals are really small but in England this is traditionally where much of the atmosphere is generated as its where most of the hardcore home support sit/stand and the away fans usually sit in the stand facing them


----------



## rantanamo

^That's starting to happen the world over with the 'saddleroofs'


----------



## spyguy

yure323 said:


> BTW, Bridgeview stadium will probably be called Toyota stadium, which is way better than the ones above.


Toyota Park I thought


----------



## Zaqattaq

ha NYC stadiums, they never get built


----------



## www.sercan.de

thank you

but the costs are very high in the USA :runaway: 

average for a stadium is 700,000,000-1,000,000,000 :runaway:


----------



## yure323

Mr. Fusion said:


> Don't mention it.
> 
> I just thought it was really awesome how huge of renewal this is for the "big four" sports in the New York City area, which makes sense since all the venues they're replacing went up [or in the case of Yankee Stadium, heavily renovated] in the 1960s and 70s. Time to do it all again!
> 
> I personally can't wait to see what the next MSG will look like! I think it'd be really neat if they tied it into the architecture of the retro Penn Station they're building adjacent to it.
> 
> :grouphug:


Make that the "big five" sports, you forgot to mention the new soccer stadium, for 20.000 people in Harrison,NJ for the New York Red Bulls (former Metrostars) soccer team. Groundbreaking is scheduled in September 2006, and opening in April 2008.








The stadium probably won't look like that, because that rendering was made before Red Bull got involved, there have been some rumours that Red Bull wants to have a retractable roof, and Red Bull already bought naming rights so the stadium will be called Red Bull Park.


----------



## Dallas star

Seriosly thx guys


----------



## Mr. Fusion

^^ Ah yes I remember reading about that! It's great to see more soccer-specific stadia going up in the US.

:grouphug:


----------



## Mr. Fusion

www.sercan.de said:


> average for a stadium is 700,000,000-1,000,000,000 :runaway:


I can only assume the two ballparks and the stadium in the Meadowlands cost a few hundred million more than "average" due to their locations in / proximity to the city. But if that's the case, one would think the Mets ballpark and Meadowlands stadium would cost less, don't they own the parking lots these stadia are being built on? :dunno:

:grouphug:


----------



## nomarandlee

awesome time to be a sports fan in NYC. I would say my favorite looking projects are the new Nets stadium (though I think I read the particulars keep getting changed?), new Yankee stad, and even the Islanders new stadium (which looks like it can turn out very cool or kinda tacky). Also I love the idea of making the Meadowlands an urban node and hub of activity (is there any renders for the Xanadu project itself?

I also really like the look of the new Mets and Yank stadiums though it would be cool if at least one of them wasn't going retro. I would also like to see more renders of the Jets/Giants stadium as well. 

Also just one other critique is when you have one of the best skylines in the world stadiums should take advantage of the vistas they can provide!! 

Other then that the new stadiums look top notch and I like the idea of the development around much of them.


----------



## spyguy

All of these stadiums are amazingly expensive.


----------



## www.sercan.de

Mr. Fusion said:


> I can only assume the two ballparks and the stadium in the Meadowlands cost a few hundred million more than "average" due to their locations in / proximity to the city. But if that's the case, one would think the Mets ballpark and Meadowlands stadium would cost less, don't they own the parking lots these stadia are being built on? :dunno:
> 
> :grouphug:


so the real cost for the stadium is lower?


----------



## 2005

www.sercan.de said:


> thank you
> 
> but the costs are very high in the USA :runaway:
> 
> average for a stadium is 700,000,000-1,000,000,000 :runaway:



Wembley is something like $1.3b I think.


----------



## www.sercan.de

yeah
But Wembley is a record for Europe
a big record 

But in the USA there many stadiums with high cost??!!


----------



## Mr. Fusion

www.sercan.de said:


> so the real cost for the stadium is lower?


For the stadium itself, I think so. New stadia and ballparks around the NFL and MLB [outside of the largest cities NYC, Chicago, LA, Houston] have been averaging around $300 to $400 million, property included. Real estate in larger cities can really boost the price though. I'm not sure if this explains all the added cost, but most of it perhaps.

:grouphug:


----------



## TopperCity

cool


----------



## centreoftheuniverse

Mr. Fusion said:


> I can only assume the two ballparks and the stadium in the Meadowlands cost a few hundred million more than "average" due to their locations in / proximity to the city. But if that's the case, one would think the Mets ballpark and Meadowlands stadium would cost less, don't they own the parking lots these stadia are being built on? :dunno:


None of the teams own the land their stadiums are on.


----------



## Mr. Fusion

^^ Interesting. Thanks for the info!

:grouphug:


----------



## TopperCity

huh


----------



## TalB

Keep in mind that new Nets arena is still in the proposed stage, so don't celebrate just yet.


----------



## XCRunner

This is insane!!! Are all these projects being completed with taxpayer money? Becuase all of them put together (incl. the Nets and Red Bulls) is over $5 billion!


----------



## Mr. Fusion

TalB said:


> Keep in mind that new Nets arena is still in the proposed stage, so don't celebrate just yet.


True, however if they don't move to Brooklyn, they'll move to the Newark Arena. Continental Airlines Arena will face the wrecking ball almost certainly, Newark's new mayor wants it destroyed on the grounds that "having two arenas is silly."

:grouphug:


----------



## Mr. Fusion

XCRunner said:


> This is insane!!! Are all these projects being completed with taxpayer money? Becuase all of them put together (incl. the Nets and Red Bulls) is over $5 billion!


I know for a fact the Mets and Yankees are paying for their stadia in full. New Yankee Stadium costs _only_ $800 million, the additional funds are from the city or state for infrastructure/park improvments surrounding it.

:grouphug:


----------



## TexasBoi

Zorba said:


> The future is bright for the Skins. I can't say the same for the Cowboys. Not as long as you guys have T.O. on your team.


yeah..the future is bright for the Redskins instead of the Cowboys even though the Cowboys have one of the youngest defenses in the NFL and one of the younger backfields in the NFL. We build our team through drafts while you trade yours every year yet your future looks bright and ours dont? Also, for that not to make it just the past. You will have to do what you did last season consistently. Time will tell if you can in 2006. I don't think the Skins ever beaten the Cowboys more than 3 times in a row. I doubt that'll change this season...Back to the stadium now.


----------



## The_Big_O

That has to be the ugliest stadium design I have EVER seen.


----------



## Zorba

TexasBoi said:


> yeah..the future is bright for the Redskins instead of the Cowboys even though the Cowboys have one of the youngest defenses in the NFL and one of the younger backfields in the NFL. We build our team through drafts while you trade yours every year yet your future looks bright and ours dont? Also, for that not to make it just the past. You will have to do what you did last season consistently. Time will tell if you can in 2006. I don't think the Skins ever beaten the Cowboys more than 3 times in a row. I doubt that'll change this season...Back to the stadium now.


I don't want to take this thread any further off topic, so check your PM box for my response.


----------



## TalB

Mike Dolan, who owns all the Knicks, Liberty, and Rangers, has been against the new MSG being that he doesn't want to loose his taxbreaks that he gets from the current location.


----------



## reluminate

TalB said:


> Mike Dolan, who owns all the Knicks, Liberty, and Rangers, has been against the new MSG being that he doesn't want to loose his taxbreaks that he gets from the current location.


Not at all. The Dolan Family (Charles, and his son James - not "Mike"), who owns Cablevision Systems, in addition to owning the Knicks, Rangers, Liberty, Radio City Music Hall, and numerous TV Stations, OWNS Madison Square Garden. They're against building a new competing facility (such as the West Side Stadium), as they currently have a monopoly in Manhattan.


----------



## NovaWolverine

Actually...there have been some talks that are nothing but a dream at this point, of Dan Snyder building a new Redskins stadium on the RFK site, w/ a retractable roof, b/c he really wants a Super Bowl in DC and World Cup obviously would be good, and for a potential Olympic bid sometime in the future. The land that Fed Ex Field is on right now would go for a good amount of money. The only reason that stadium is there is b/c Jack Kent Cooke understandably didn't want to deal with the District gov't. Tearing it down seems like a huge waste, but the possibilities of a real nice stadium on the RFK site which is prime is really lucrative. 

But about the Dallas Stadium, when I see the new renderings, I'll judge. So far, you know it will be something special. That old rendering isn't very "Dallas Cowboys" though. Maybe in the future but I envision something tall and grand, but not all contemporary looking like the rendering.


----------



## Zorba

I have a hard time believing that FedEx field will be torn down, or that the Redskins would even seriously consider playing in D.C. again. 

There might be a possibility of it happening in around 15 years. FedEx field will be around 30 years old by then, so there might be some justification for building a new Redskins stadium.


----------



## The_Big_O

The Maryland Stadium Authority won't like that one bit.


----------



## NovaWolverine

Yeah, it's a real pipe dream, the only thing is with Snyder. It would be a huge story around here for sure. Fed Ex field is a real monster of a stadium, Snyder wants a temple for his team, and where RFK is located on East Capitol Street, next to the river, it has a great view of the Capitol and can be seen from a nice distance away. 

Also, Fed Ex field, logistically, is terrible, getting around over there is awful, the stadium will be 9 yrs old, and will be paid off in 6 yrs. Also, the land RFK is on is property of the National Park Service, and there's no plan on what to do with it yet except for nothing, the city would have to make a deal to acquire or it could be given to the Snyders. The whole thing to me is that this is Dan Snyder and he's done some things.

And he REALLY wants a Super Bowl held in DC, which is definite, unlike the world cup or olympics, if we had a retractable roof. Looks like he'll just have to suck it up or make a big decision. Dealing with the DC government would be a bitch though, if he wanted to get it done, with the wealth and know how he has, he could, but it would be a hassle.

With this said, it's pretty out there, I personally think that land could be very nicely redeveloped and get more people on the east side.


----------



## Zorba

^^ 
Why don't they just build a retractable roof over FedEx?


----------



## TalB

Dolan is also opposed to the Nets moving to Brooklyn just as much as he was for the Jets comming to Manhattan.


----------



## jamesinclair

yure323 said:


> Article about NY Red Bulls new stadium in the Sportsbussinesjournal :
> 
> You have to pay/make up an email address to read the article, so I'll save you the time and post some highlights.
> 
> * The soccer stadium could cost $150 million, making it the most expensive soccer stadium in the country
> 
> * "Construction is expected to start by March, and the facility could open in July 2008 depending on the severity of the winters, said Nick Sakiewicz, president of AEG New York and Red Bull Stadium."
> 
> * Cost increase is mainly due to Red Bull wanting a more European style design. 25,000 seats, 90% of which are covered by a roof, seats right down to the field.
> 
> * Suites: 60 now instead of 40, 12 rows from the field (suites are 20 rows away at Toyota Park).
> 
> * It will have a permanent stage, but it will be concealed more than the one in Chicago, with temporary seats. “You won’t be able to tell there is a stage there during soccer,” he [Sakiewicz] said.
> 
> http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com...51196&keyword=



Good to see that the sponsership is being useful. I wasnt a fan of calling a team the "red bulls" but if it means a great stadium...

If they want the most modern design, the seats shouldnt reach the field though. FIFA recommends elevated seats (or lowered field) for better visibility.


----------



## cphdude

^^Really? So is it just going to be for conserts and events?

anyways, it looks pretty good...


----------



## samsonyuen

That looks great! I love the outside. When is it finished? I know they're trying to land the Pens, but do they have any minor league hockey teams?


----------



## rantanamo

Some would say its being built out of spite towards Dallas. Not the whole picture, but certainly is part of it.


----------



## urban_phx

Awesome hockey seems to be a growing sport since phoenix just got a new arena a few years ago also


----------



## Mo Rush

glad to see this one beat out some of those other proposals


----------



## Jayayess1190

Nice


----------



## samsonyuen

What does Dallas have to do with KC building its own basketball/hockey arena?


----------



## 40Acres

samsonyuen said:


> What does Dallas have to do with KC building its own basketball/hockey arena?


Because Dallas got into the rotation of hosting the Men's and Women's Big 12 Basketball Tournament Championships when the Big 8 became the Big 12 adding 4 Texas teams to the conference. the B12 tourney had been a very HUGE staple of KC economy and tradition ... and were insulted that Dallas would even THINK of taking away their precious tournament. In all fairness to them, they rightfully host an amazing 4 days of basketball, but was often heavily slanted towards the north teams in the conference. So, to make it more 'balanced', Dallas gets to host the tournaments every few years. 

Kemper Arena was one of the reasons why KC was unable to hold the tournament every year ... although it is a very tradition-rich arena, it was becoming inadequate for the prestige of the event.

Also, it will take away the possibility of Dallas always getting to host regional championships for the midwest/south regional of the big NCAA tournament. Sort of pay-back for stealing the B12 tourney away.

I really like this design, reminds me of Phog Allen Fieldhouse in Lawrence, Kansas (University of Kansas) with the natural light. Can't wait to see it.


----------



## Gibson

The Game Is Up- Very interesting post. I never quite looked at it like that, but yeah, I see what you are saying. And it makes sense because with most of the sites you listed, including most of the new downtown parks even, all have some surface lot/parking ramps nearby that could potentially support the location of a new stadium.

Yet while I know the additional revenue from a new stadium is the main reason they are built, there are a few of the new retro stadiums in particular that really stand out to me character wise. There are ones* which I have a hard time seeing their teams building a new stadium in the city when the 30 year lease runs out. But who knows what the future holds.

*Those teams that have stadiums that I think really help define the city include:
-Pittsburgh (having the great view of downtown and the river, plus it is my favorite new park)
-San Francisco (being right on the bay, the tight cracker box feel, its just a beutiful park)
-Baltimore (Camden Yards started it all, plus the warehouse and city view and Babe Ruth thing, its all too perfect)

And to a lesser extent
-Detroit ( I cant put my finger on this one, but there is just something about the location/view and layout of Comerica)

(In many ways I view these as the future Wrigleys/Fenways. Not that those new stadiums not listed arent beautiful, just on location, design, and character... they dont seem as much of a fixture to me as those few listed above.)


----------



## Downs

I think the big retractable roof stadiums will fade first. Even Skydome in Toronto is showing some age, despite a great location. I just see that over time more problems will develop with the roofed stadiums, and their lack of quaintness will eventually spell their doom. But hey, what do I know.


----------



## Downs

Why not just design if for football, but build it in such a way that a track could be installed around the field by removing some of the seats that are closer to the football field. This could be done just for the duration of the Olympics. Then when the Olympics are over, just remove the track and put permanent seats back in. Its not that hard to do.


----------



## cwilson758

Mr. Fusion said:


> Not only will the Sprint Center bring back the NCAA Tourney and Big Twelve, but it was also built with the hope that they would attract an NBA or NHL franchise back to Kansas City. :grouphug:


You are just talking about early rounds of the NCAA tourney, correct? Because this new arena WILL NOT hot the Final Four. It is far too small. You need in upwards of 35,000 seats for the Final Four. I am not sure of the actual minimum number required, but a 20,000 seat arena isn't going to cut it.


----------



## Mr. Fusion

cwilson758 said:


> You are just talking about early rounds of the NCAA tourney, correct?


:yes:

Just as Kemper Arena has done in the past.

Although had the rolling roof for the Truman Sports Complex won approval in April, Arrowhead Stadium would have been a potential site for hosting the NCAA Championship.


----------



## Calvin W

KC wants NHL? There are lots of teams they can have. Pick any team from California, Florida or any other southern state.
Seriously I think they will get an NBA team before they get a NHL team. Either way someone will get a beautiful arena to play in.


----------



## samsonyuen

The project in Tulsa looks great, but if an NBA team were to move (either the SSS or the NOH), wouldn't they move to OKC, where there's been a team (interim) already?


----------



## Mr. Fusion

samsonyuen said:


> The project in Tulsa looks great, but if an NBA team were to move (either the SSS or the NOH), wouldn't they move to OKC, where there's been a team (interim) already?


I guess you did not hear, the Sonics were recently sold to a group of people from Oklahoma City, and they have set a deadline of 12 months for the city of Seattle to work out a new arena deal or they reserve the right to move.

If they move to OKC, I do not see a team moving to Tulsa. Kansas City still has a shot at the New Orleans or Portland franchises.

KC also had high hopes of enticing the future owner of the NHL's Pittsburgh Penguins, Sam Fingold, to move to the Sprint Center, but Fingold announced today he would keep the franchise in Pittsburgh so long as a new arena deal is worked out.


----------



## Kampflamm

DrJoe said:


> The glass is a bad idea. Arenas with natural light completely lose atmosphere and don't show well on TV. There is a reason no one has done it before(in a major arena)


Doesn't the Arena in Columbus, OH have a couple of windows?


----------



## yure323

What about colleges and universities in NYC metro area ? Are any of them planning to build new facilities ?


----------



## Flyboy41

*Cathedrals of College Hoops (Pics)*

Hello all, this is my first post and I love the site. I am a fan of stadiums especially college basketball arenas. Here are what I think are some of the best college basketball arenas in the USA. Feel free to add your own photos and thoughts.








Rupp Arena. Lexington Ky. University of Kentucky Wildcats. Capacity 24,000








Gallagher-Iba Arena. Oklahoma State Cowboys. Capacity 13,661








Dean Smith Center. North Carolina Tarheels. Capacity 21,571


----------



## 40Acres

Thank you for starting this thread. I was thinking of starting this one in October too.

IMO, Ghallager Iba Arena on the campus of Oklahoma State University is the most brutal place to play in America. Sure, Cameron Indoor Arena at Duke University is cool, but not nearly as noisy or raucous as GIA ... especially when the Cowboys are really good. 

*Oklahoma State University Cowboys
Ghallager Iba Arena
13,661*
















































*Duke University Blue Devils
Cameron Indoor Stadium
9,314*






































*University of Texas Longhorns
Frank Erwin Center aka "The Drum"
16,837 *


----------



## Red_Gravel

*Texas Tech Red Raiders & Lady Raiders
United Spirit Arena
15,000*























































*For you longhorns:*


----------



## Bigmac1212

This Sun Devil will do something I shouldn't:

McKale Center
University of Arizona
Tucson, Arizona
Approximate Capacity: 10,000


----------



## Red_Gravel

*Baylor University Bears
Ferrel Center
10,550*





































*University of Oklahoma Sooners
Lloyd Noble Center
11,528*



















*Texas A&M Uniniversity Aggies
Reed Arena
12,500*


----------



## ReddAlert

Red_Gravel said:


> *For you longhorns:*


TJ!


----------



## Scoots71

University of Alabama Crimson Tide
Coleman Colliseum 
14619


----------



## Red_Gravel

*University of Kansas Jayhawks
Allen Fieldhouse
16,300*





























*Kansas State University Wildcats
Fred Bramlage Coliseum
13,500*




















*University of Nebraska Cornhuskers
Bob Devaney Sports Center
13,500*




















*University of Missouri Tigers
Mizzou Arena
15,061*




















*University of Colorado Buffaloes
Coors Events Center
11,064*




















*Iowa State University Cyclones
James H. Hilton Coliseum
14,092*


----------



## Walbanger

Really enjoyed looking at those pics. It's hard to gather college arena info from Australia so thanks.


----------



## Flyboy41

*re*

This is one of the more unique arenas.















Assembly Hall. Indiana University Hoosiers. 17,000
















Value City Arena/Schottenstein Center. Ohio State Buckeyes. Columbus Ohio. 17,500 hockey, 19,500 basketball


----------



## Walbanger

Can someone explain to me why the Columbus Blue Jackets built their own arena when the Schottenstein Center looked perfectly suitable from a foreigners point of view?
I guess I have the same question as to why the North Stars moved to Dallas instead of the Target center but that's a bit off topic.


----------



## Flyboy41

Nationwide Arena was built mainly for the addition of luxury boxes. It is also in an area of downtown in need of an economic boost. Value City arena, while nice, doesn't have the number of luxury boxes that an NHL arena needed.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

You forgot the Shrine of College Basketball, Pauley Pavillion, Home of the 11 time NCAA Champion UCLA Bruins!












and here is one of the Long Beach Pyramid, home of the Cal State Long Beach Dirtbags...


----------



## Jackie003

u guys are lucky to have all of your stadiums replaced (yankees,mets,jets/giants,redbull,nets,devils,knicks/rangers). only in new york. the population base and the money. just don't understand why your team owners have to reply on assisstance from the local government. ppl like george steinbrunner can afford to take a hit of $50+ million in luxury taxes for going over the baseball cap with yankees payroll ($200+million) and still need a handout? jays are not doing that bad considering we spent around $80 million. hope u guys are ready for your tax increases.

:scouserd:


----------



## yure323

9 page article on the Atlantic Yards project :
http://newyorkmetro.com/news/features/18862/index.html


----------



## Ebola

What about the Staten Island NASCAR stadium? I read that, if built, it would be the largest stadium in NYC and NYS. Even though it's taking a long time, it's still pretty damn possible that it will be built.


----------



## yure323

http://www.bigapplesoccer.com/article.php?article_id=6664
*New rendering of Red Bull Park !!!* ( click on the link )
Very Euro looking stadium, with all the seats covered, two tiers all around and looks much bigger than it really is ( 25.000 ).


----------



## Rausa

:cheers: FINALLY a good (euro style) stadium in MLS..

Here's the render


----------



## yure323

The only soccer stadium that could rival Red Bull Park is going to be the new stadium in Washington,DC :
http://dcunited.mlsnet.com/MLS/dcu/stadium/poplar_point/


----------



## Calvin W

Ebola where can a guy get more info on the nascar facility? Let me guess a 1.5 mile oval, ala Texas, Chicago, etc.


----------



## Mr. Fusion

Calvin W said:


> Ebola where can a guy get more info on the nascar facility? Let me guess a 1.5 mile oval, ala Texas, Chicago, etc.


*Official Website: Race To New York* :yes:


----------



## Jackie003

lol new york red balls


----------



## Bigmac1212

*New Press Box Tower at Wake Forest's Groves Stadium*

Looks like the ACC institution in Winston-Salem, North Carolina wants some luxury features at it's football stadium. Here's the photos:










































I think it's a nice feature. What about you?


----------



## NeilF

Nice feature to the stadium, but I hate all this neo-retro build style bollocks. Every era should have it's own definition in archetecture and features like this seem to stand in the way of ours. I can also see the stadium side, at least from the way it looks in impressions above, looking like an early 80s office block in 20 years.


----------



## Red_Gravel

Neil: I don't know about WF, but some universities have specific requirements on architectural style when there is a new campus addition----just for the sake of uniformity. For example here are some buildings on my campus:

Old Building:










New Buildings:


----------



## NeilF

No, I gather that, just that I've always more thought along the lines of, "If you're going to do something modern, at least make it definable." For example, my old uni in Hull, England added onto old buildings and at least accepted that something old would never really fit. By keeping the scale of the other buildings, however, they've added a distinctly impressive modern structure into it. I can't find a postable picture, so follow the link and you'll see what I mean.

http://www.hull.ac.uk/hubs/

I dunno, it's just this proto-retro stuff is something that seems alien to me. It's probably something to do with the new part added to the National Gallery in London. Look at the far end. It just looks so crap and modern and is obviously a modern addition. Again, if you're going to do something modern, at least do it properly modern. Not doing so, as far as I see it, is not a preservation of history.










(look at the roof, for example, on the far left)


----------



## Red_Gravel

I see....Sort of like Sir Norman Foster's Kuppel Dome on the Reichstag parliament building:










Or the addition to the Pennsylvania Station in New York




























I am actually a big fan of this fusing to new with the old. I just don't think it is popular here as it is in Europe (I could be wrong). I can def say it's not really popular here in West Texas. I'm sure we will see more examples here as time progresses  

BTW NielF, Stunning campus!


----------



## ReddAlert

Looking good. I dont care what they say, I dig that stadium. College stadiums *shouldnt* be all futuristic looking in my opinion.


----------



## NeilF

Red_Gravel said:


> I see....Sort of like Sir Norman Foster's Kuppel Dome on the Reichstag parliament building


The Reichstag is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. Not just the dome, but the entirity of the inside follows the modern pattern, and it works amazingly. The same should be said about the pyramid at La Louvre, despite the fact that it's a hideously over-used example. 

In Edinburgh, where I live now, there's also a few old/new mixes that work fantastically well, both in addition to existing buildings and, especially, with modern work right in the heart of the old town - the stuff in Fish Market Close, for example;










Distinctly modern buildings that work, because they keep to the scale of the surrounding area. As far as I see it, that's where people go wrong. If you built a 40 story neo-gothic builiding in, say, the old town of Prague, it would look hideous because it would be so out of place, yet Gherey's Dancing Building, a modern anomoly (for lack of a better word) fits in perfectly with the city scape. I think that's something people don't realise - as long as things are kept to locality scales, they will work, no matter how big the old - modern mix is. 

I don't really know if Europe is more open to these things than the US or not. The hideous addition to the National Gallery was put there because of public opposition, lead by Prince Charles. The initial plan was for a modern, glass and steel structure, that looked, in all ways, an entirely seperate building and it worked so much better like that.

ReddAlert - can I ask you for more details as to why you feel like that? As far as I've seen it (not to suggest I'm right, I'm just looking for more to your opinion), colleges / universities, in most cases, are historical institutions that should evolve with time, and I think the campus is just a part of that. Take, again, the example I gave of my own university in Hull - the university, as a university, is about 75 years old, but some of the buildings are older, due to previous uses as Northern English faculties of UCL - the campus there reflects the history of the university, from it's days as a part of UCL right up to the present time.

The campus itself is a sort of time line through the expansion of the university. There are 100+ year old buildings, 75 year old buildings, 50 year old buildings, 25 year old buildings, current buildings and so on. While not all of it is to my particular taste, I found that campus more impressive than most of the US campuses that have buildings that are 5 years old that are only subtly distinguishable from 80 year old buildings, but are built like that to "preserve the history of the college" or something like that. Right down to stadia and sports facilities, I don't think that is the right way to look at things. Call me a Philistine if you will, but building something in 2006 to look like it's from 1906 is a complete disregard of history, rather than a preservation of it. It almost forgets that history isn't stagnant.

That and I really, really dislike new buildings made to look old. Again, to use an example from where I live, the hideous yellow brick tenements that blight parts of Edinburgh's New Town are a mess - built to old stone designs and made through current materials and methods. They really do blight what is, an otherwise beautiul town that has been built through various archetectural timescales, times and methods.


----------



## Red_Gravel

Perhaps one of the reasons for choosing a style that resembles the past could be its "timeless" appeal. What if a building built it a modern style today were to be less fashionable in the future to the point were it would be considered an eye-sore? There are many a buildings in the Bauhaus style that fit this category, not to mention a few Le Corbusier nightmares here in the US. Just a thought. Hmm…I want to say more but I have to run an errand.


----------



## skaP187

so actualy nothing happened in the video and this thread is realy about a (strange) goalpost?!!!! Get a live !!!!


----------



## nyrmetros

It's sad that the NYC Metro region will be building 8 new arena/stadiums in the same 4 year time period.

#1 - NFL stadium in the Meadowlands, NJ
#2 - MLS stadium in Harrison, NJ
#3 - NHL arena in Newark, NJ
#4 - NBA arena in Brooklyn, NY
#5 - NHL arena in Uniondale, NY
#6 - MLB stadium in Queens, NY
#7 - MLB stadium in Bronx, NY
#8 - NBA/NHL arena in Manhattan, NY

Is all this really necessary ??

#1 is not necessary
#2 is necessary
#3 is already happening
#4 is not necessary in the current location
#5 only needs some rennovations
#6 might be necessary
#7 only needs rennovations
#8 only needs minor rennovations


----------



## Mr. Fusion

^^ Do you not follow professional sports? I'm not questioning your logic of replacing a perfectly good building, but such things have nothing to do with why these new facilities are being built/proposed. :yes:


----------



## EtherealMist

nyrmetros said:


> It's sad that the NYC Metro region will be building 8 new arena/stadiums in the same 4 year time period.
> 
> #1 - NFL stadium in the Meadowlands, NJ
> #2 - MLS stadium in Harrison, NJ
> #3 - NHL arena in Newark, NJ
> #4 - NBA arena in Brooklyn, NY
> #5 - NHL arena in Uniondale, NY
> #6 - MLB stadium in Queens, NY
> #7 - MLB stadium in Bronx, NY
> #8 - NBA/NHL arena in Manhattan, NY
> 
> Is all this really necessary ??
> 
> #1 is not necessary
> #2 is necessary
> #3 is already happening
> #4 is not necessary in the current location
> #5 only needs some rennovations
> #6 might be necessary
> #7 only needs rennovations
> #8 only needs minor rennovations



lol the Mets desperately need a new ballpark. Shea is one of the oldest in the majors, and not old in a good way like Fenway or Wrigely, but rather in a bad way. Although it does have a enormous Apple that pops out of a top hat.


----------



## SaRaJeVo-City

I like this stadium a lot, looks very european...Build it


----------



## i_am_hydrogen

*Minor League Ballparks - Let's See Yours*

Post a few photos of your city's minor league baseball stadium.


----------



## nyrmetros

Mr. Fusion said:


> ^^ Do you not follow professional sports? I'm not questioning your logic of replacing a perfectly good building, but such things have nothing to do with why these new facilities are being built/proposed. :yes:


Yes, sadly I do follow the business of modern pro sports as well as the fan aspect of modern pro sports. I understand why this stuff is done, but I also like to point at from a fan perspective what doesn't need to be done.


----------



## nyrmetros

SaRaJeVo-City said:


> I like this stadium a lot, looks very european...Build it


Absolutely..... it's maybe the only new stadium being built in the NYC area that has any charm or intimacy to it that's not completely destroyed by coporate $.


----------



## Spooky873

The Knicks and Rangers need a new home. the end.


----------



## Scoots71

*Montgomery Riverwalk Stadium*

*Montgomery Riverwalk Stadium*
Montgomery, Alabama
4500 fixed seats, 7400 capacity
home of the Montgomery Biscuits of the AA Southern League in the Tampa Bay organization.
Hosted the 2006 Southern League All-Star game.


----------



## KM1410

*Indianapolis - Victory Field (Capacity: 15,500)*


----------



## ReggieZ

Whataburger Field - Corpus Christi,TX


----------



## ReddAlert

cool location but...Whataburger Field? Thats almost as bad as Taco Bell Arena.


----------



## ASupertall4SD

Lake Elsinore Diamond - Lake Elsinore Storm - A ball
6,066 fixed seats, 8000 capacity


----------



## ASupertall4SD

Rancho Cucamonga Quakes - The Epicenter
6,200 seat capacity


----------



## ASupertall4SD

Inland Empire 66ers - Arrowhead Credit Union Stadium
5,000 seat capacity


----------



## ASupertall4SD

Lancaster Jethawks - Clear Channel Stadium
6860 capacity


----------



## ASupertall4SD

And the last of the A Ball California League South Division stadiums

High Desert Mavericks - Stater Bros. Stadium
3,808 seat capacity


----------



## TalB

Mr. Fusion said:


> ^^ Source please?


July 7, 2006
Nets may sign an extension

NY Newsday
By Neil Best

The Nets, whose lease at Continental Airlines Arena is to expire after the 2007-08 season, are discussing an extension through 2011-12 with the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority, a person familiar with the talks said.

A spokesman for the team declined to comment on the status of lease negotiations.

The deal being discussed, which could be announced within the next week or so, would include escape clauses if the Nets' proposed downtown Brooklyn arena is completed before then.


----------



## ReddAlert

the Lancaster Jethawks have an awesome logo.


----------



## dave8721

Closest to Miami: Roger Dean Stadium in Jupiter FL (near Palm Beach). Home to the Class A (Florida State League) Jupiter Hammerheads and spring training for the Florida Marlins:
Capacity: 7,000


----------



## golobos

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_Arena

The Pit in Albuquerque is no doubt the best arena of all the 'mid-majors'. It just doesn't get better than 18,000 screaming New Mexicans in an arena that looks like it would seat about 10,000. The game two years ago against Utah, when Utah was on an 18-game winning streak, was the loudest arena I've ever been in. But since The Pit is in New Mexico, almost nobody knows about it.


----------



## nyrmetros

Spooky873 said:


> The Knicks and Rangers need a new home. the end.


No, they don't... But would you care to explain why you think they need a new MSG V ?


----------



## TalB

The Knicks, Liberty, and Rangers are fine where they are playing right now. I know that when I made a thread on MSG IV a while back, there were a number a of constant remarks of saying that it took away the stationhouse of Penn Station. I will not argue that it took something away, but that wasn't a landgrab, it was a buyout. Pennsylvaina RR was facing bankruptcy around that time, and sold it to the highest bidder, which happened to be the owner of MSG. About a decade ago, Mike Dolan, the owner at the time, was thinking about relocating MSG over the Hudson Yds, where the Westside Stadium would have gone, but decided to rennovate the place instead, which was the best idea. Even if a new stationhouse would be built there, it wouldn't erase the fact that the original was razed. I like the current one anyway, though it would be nice if the MTA put a free tranfer between the 7th and 8th Ave lines there in which you will have to pay again unlike at 42nd St-Times Sq.


----------



## ReggieZ

ReddAlert said:


> cool location but...Whataburger Field? Thats almost as bad as Taco Bell Arena.


Whataburger began in Corpus.


----------



## CharlieP

Go Biscuits!!!


----------



## TEBC

loved all


----------



## great prairie

ReggieZ said:


> Whataburger began in Corpus.


I was gonna post the same thing.....

but anyway here is Dr Pepper/7-up (Dr Pepper HQ is located here) Frisco Roughriders stadium


----------



## Nic

The Dell Diamond, Home of the Round Rock Express, AAA Pacific Coast League affiliate of the Houston Astros.


----------



## Scba

Dr Pepper/7-up Field is without a doubt in my mind the most innovative field in the minors today.

Unfortunately, it just doesn't look like it belongs in Central Texas, the architecture fits Florida or the Carolina coast much more.


----------



## great prairie

^^ it is in North Texas(DFW)


----------



## Canadian Chocho

Since I'm originally from Ottawa, Lynx Stadium:


----------



## TalB

There are several minor league ballparks in the NY metro area.

Keyspan Park (Brooklyn Cyclones)









Richmond County Bank Ballpark (SI Yankees)









Ductchess Stadium (Hudson Valley Renegades)









Senator Thomas J Dodd Memorial Stadium (Norwich Navigators)


----------



## Canadian Chocho

CanWest Global Park in Winnipeg:


----------



## Canadian Chocho

Am I the only one keeping this thread alive?

*Foothills Stadium*


----------



## Zaqattaq

*State College, PA*


----------



## Bigmac1212

*Indiana University renovating facilities*

Here's the link:

Indiana University renovating Memorial Stadium, other facilities 

Here's the photos of the expanded Memorial Stadium:



















Here's a photo of the proposed new baseball and softball stadia:










And the thing that could scare Hoosier fans; Assembely Hall, the basketball arena could be replaced:

New Basketball Arena possible 
:runaway:


----------



## indyfan

That new football stadium looks great but they'll need to start drawing a lot better.


----------



## 40Acres

Looks like a mix of Ohio Stadium and Lane Stadium in Blacksburg, Virginia


----------



## Bigmac1212

*Nebraska's Super Screen*

Stadium video screen's have advance of late. Here's Nebraska's Jumbotron, provided by Mistubishi's Diamond Vision:








Here's the picture you need to see:








They can put the (American) football scoreboard and stats on the video screen! The only thing they don't put is the play clock. (The double digit timer that the offense must snap the ball before it runs out.) I wonder why they don't have that on the video screen.


----------



## TalB

Mr. Fusion said:


> The link requires a login. Can you post the article text here? :yes:


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/19/nyregion/19moynihan.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
*Station Plan Is Called Dead, but It May Just Be Napping*

By CHARLES V. BAGLI
Published: October 19, 2006

The Moynihan Station project has had a number of near-death experiences in the 13 years since plans first surfaced to convert the city’s General Post Office into a grand transit center adjoining Pennsylvania Station.

Yesterday, the Pataki administration declared the $900 million project “dead” after Sheldon Silver, the Democratic speaker of the State Assembly, refused to endorse it at a meeting of the Public Authorities Control Board. A yes vote would have cleared the way for construction before Gov. George E. Pataki, a Republican, leaves office in December.

It was unclear whether yesterday’s event was truly fatal, or merely an attempt by Democrats to deny Mr. Pataki a legacy project. In fact, this project, or even a grander one that includes moving Madison Square Garden, could be revived next year, presumably by Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, the leading candidate for governor.

But any delay carries political and financial risks. Construction costs could escalate, federal financing could disappear or the project could become mired in lawsuits.

“This project is dead,” Charles A. Gargano, the governor’s top economic development official, said after the meeting. “We’ve got to start all over again.”

Mr. Gargano said that the speaker’s action had forced the state to terminate the deal with the developers selected to build Moynihan Station: Vornado Realty Trust and Related Companies.

State officials and transit advocates have argued that Moynihan Station is desperately needed to relieve overcrowding at Penn Station, the busiest transit center in the country, and to provide a grand gateway to New York City. But Mr. Silver, in alliance with State Comptroller Alan G. Hevesi and Mr. Spitzer, have repeatedly questioned the financing and legality of the project.

Governor Pataki, who had lobbied personally in its favor, issued a statement last night saying he was “deeply disappointed.” He said that city, state and federal officials had expended a tremendous amount of effort in planning for Moynihan Station, completing the environmental review and designing “a station worthy of Senator Moynihan’s name.”

“It is truly infuriating to now have to consider those efforts fruitless,” Mr. Pataki said.

Mr. Gargano bitterly attacked Mr. Silver, saying he was playing politics and did not understand the project. Officials have suggested that Mr. Silver and other Democrats were acting merely to deny Mr. Pataki any credit.

“He’s one sorry-minded politician,” Mr. Gargano said.

Christine Anderson, a spokeswoman for Mr. Spitzer, said he was disappointed that the two sides were unable to work out their differences. She said he hoped that the Pataki administration would not restart the bidding process “and foreclose the possibility of the project moving forward.”

Transportation advocates also expressed hope that Moynihan Station would once again survive rumors of its demise.

“I don’t think the project’s dead,” said Robert Yaro, president of the Regional Plan Association. “But it’s obviously not going anywhere during this administration, which has only 10 weeks to go. I have every reason to believe that this will be a priority for Spitzer, if he’s elected.”

Last night, Mr. Silver denied that he was playing politics. He said that serious questions remained about the financing and the legality of the Moynihan Station project. He said he favored a more comprehensive proposal from the developers to modernize Penn Station on both sides of Eighth Avenue, by demolishing Madison Square Garden and building a new arena within the post office building.

Transit advocates say that the larger proposal is a rare opportunity to overhaul Penn Station, but that it would also be enormously profitable for the developers, who would build a glass canopy over Penn Station, as well as a shopping mall, office towers, a hotel and residential buildings.

But that proposal is still in a nascent stage and has not been publicly unveiled, and has no funding for the estimated $1 billion cost of renovating Penn Station.

Mr. Silver said he offered a compromise yesterday: to approve the $230 million purchase of the post office building and to debate the merits of the proposals in the future. But the Pataki administration rejected the idea.

“There is no reason it shouldn’t be done,” Mr. Silver said of the Farley purchase. “It’s all about photo-ops and cornerstones for them.”


----------



## TexasBoi

Calvin W said:


> There are lots of games as big or bigger depends who you talk to.
> Michigan-Ohio
> USC-UCLA


USC-UCLA is more of a regional rivalry that nobody really cares about outside of Southern California. USC-Norte Dame is a different story, though.


----------



## DeMaFrost

I can't say that I'd kill a St. Louis Cardinals fan, but as a Cubs fan, I feel its my duty to bump into them when walking past them or at least give them a dirty look.


----------



## ultranet

They have created a moster..., they are everywhere.....


----------



## skaP187

Dirty bombs? dirty play perhaps!


----------



## Durbsboi

iTS all bullshit.............i hope


----------



## nyrmetros

it's all BS..... Americans are so gullible. oh well.


----------



## nyrmetros

It's all bollocks. MSG only needs minor rennovations. Who cares if MSG is the 2nd oldest arena in the NHL? It has character and charm, things you can not buy. Just ask Boston and Chicago. And Moynihan Station should be for Amtrak, not NJ Transit.


----------



## TalB

Unless Mike Dolan gets to keep his taxbreaks on the new MSG, he will not support it.


----------



## Bigmac1212

*The New Colorado Rapids stadium is called:*










You got it. Dick's Sporting Goods Park.

Let the dick jokes commence. :lol:


----------



## mdiederi

That sucks. :nuts:


----------



## Czas na Żywiec

I hate stadiums named after companies, which is pretty much the trend these days. The one I hate most is "US Cellular Field" in Chicago. - cringes -


----------



## Calvin W

Lets go to Dicks and kick some balls!


----------



## pompeyfan

*My mum does better*

hahahahahaha that was funny calvin hahahahaha
Finally a stadium name that is worse than the Pink Taco Stadium or the University of Phoenix Stadium.
My mum makes better stadium names - Moocy (combination of my two cats Moonie and Lucy)


----------



## The Concerned Potato

Bigmac1212 said:


> You got it. Dick's Sporting Goods Park.
> 
> Let the dick jokes commence. :lol:



what a fucking disgrace!hno:


----------



## BobDaBuilder

Perth's football ground in West Aust. was all set to be called "Crazy John's stadium" but it was unfortunately nipped in the bud by the government.


----------



## Canadian Chocho

LOL!! Haha!! I can see it now "The Rapids came up short at the Dick's"! :rofl:


----------



## Neda Say

Ok that one is really bad... I don't believe marketing and PR people agreed on that name!


----------



## The Concerned Potato

Neda Say said:


> Ok that one is really bad... I don't believe marketing and PR people agreed on that name!



:lol: 


some other bad names

American Airlines Arena

Pizza Hut Park

Minute Maid Stadium

Pro Player Stadium


i think in ice hockey, Nashville's rink is called "Gaylord Entertainment Center." 



Or maybe it's "Gaylord recreation center" 



Either way.... :lol:


----------



## NavyBlue

Here in OZ . . . Subiaco Oval in Perth was very close to signing a naming rights deal with telecommunications company Crazy John's.

Thankfully due to public backlash, the 'Crazy John's Stadium' idea was scrapped. :lol:


----------



## Neda Say

Ok ok all these names suck but how can you authorise anything with dick in it at this point I'm sorry you're just asking for it next to it the gaylord recreation center is a cool name. It's such a shame cause it's a really cool looking stadium I guess people will do just like for the emirates stadium or toyota park call it by his location name bridgeview or else...


----------



## TalB

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/14/sports/baseball/14stadium.html?ref=nyregion
*Honoring Robinson Is Part of Citi Field Plans*

By SEWELL CHAN
Published: November 14, 2006









_From left, Mets players Jose Reyes and David Wright, Mayor Mike Bloomberg and Jeff Wilpon, the Mets' senior executive vice president._

A rotunda honoring the life of Jackie Robinson, Citibank A.T.M.’s, a 41 percent increase in concessions and enough restaurant capacity to feed 3,134 people are among the features planned for the Mets’ new ballpark, Citi Field, which is scheduled to replace Shea Stadium in 2009, the team announced yesterday.

Gov. George E. Pataki, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and other politicians joined the Mets’ principal owner, Fred Wilpon, and several team officials and players yesterday for a ceremonial groundbreaking on a new 42,500-seat stadium. The design for the stadium is inspired by Ebbets Field, the former home of the Brooklyn Dodgers, and is expected to cost nearly $800 million.

Under a 20-year sponsorship deal with Citigroup, the stadium will be named Citi Field, displacing the name of William A. Shea. Shea, a lawyer, helped bring National League baseball back to New York in 1962, five years after the Brooklyn Dodgers and New York Giants left. Shea Stadium opened in 1964.

The Mets have encountered some criticism for not naming the new stadium for Robinson, the Dodgers legend who broke baseball’s color barrier in 1947, but Wilpon said fans would be welcomed into the soaring Jackie Robinson Rotunda, inscribed with this quotation from Robinson: “A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.” The rotunda will include a statue, still to be designed, and an exhibition on Robinson’s life.

The Mets also pledged to help the Jackie Robinson Foundation, created in 1973, build a museum and education center in Lower Manhattan. The foundation has given college scholarships to more than 1,100 minority students.

“It is my hope that as individuals and groups walk through the rotunda, they will begin to be inspired and begin to think about their own lives and what the meaning of their own lives is,” Robinson’s widow, Rachel Robinson, said at the ceremony. “I hope it will spread not just some joy, but some critical thinking about our society.”

Wilpon said that corporate support was essential to the project. “With the economics that go along with building a stadium like this, it is imperative that we receive revenues,” he said.

The Mets are financing the stadium with about $615 million in bonds. The city will contribute $90 million in capital funds and the state will contribute $75 million in rent credits to be used for infrastructure projects. The Mets have promised to use the stadium for at least 35 years.

The city estimates that the project will create 6,000 construction jobs while preserving the 1,000 jobs at Shea Stadium.

To secure City Council support for the bond financing, the Mets promised to devote 25 percent of their annual community and charitable efforts to Queens groups, and to have at least 25 percent of construction contracts and jobs go to Queens companies and residents. They said another 25 percent would go to firms owned by women or minorities. 

In addition to naming rights, Citigroup, a financial services company, agreed to buy time on SportsNet New York, a television network the Mets launched in March. The Citigroup name will be integrated into the team’s marketing and publicity campaigns and appear on walls, scoreboards, videos and automated teller machines throughout the ballpark. 

The number of toilets will increase, to 646 from 568, as will the number of wheelchair-accessible seats (to 830 from 174), luxury suites (to 54 from 45) and public elevators (to 11 from 4). The new stadium store will be 7,200 square feet; the store at Shea is 2,600 square feet.


----------



## nyrmetros

Building a smaller stadium in NYC is silly.......


----------



## nyrmetros

any new pics of the stadium ?


----------



## Zorba

nyrmetros said:


> Building a smaller stadium in NYC is silly.......


Isn't Shea usually pretty empty during mid-season though?


----------



## creil

There is no shame in naming rights for stadiums.

The new Indianapolis Colts Stadium.....Lucas Oil Stadium.

The only corporate stadium name that sounds decent (at lest in the US) is The Great American Ballpark in Cincinnati. Named for Great American Insurance Co.


----------



## The Concerned Potato

creil said:


> There is no shame in naming rights for stadiums.



obvious cultural differences....

fortunately over here 2 of the more famous grounds have acceptable names Emirates Stadium, Walkers Stadium

but then there's Kit Kat Crescent which is probably the most ridiculous name for a stadium second to Shrewsbury Town's Gay Meadow :lol:


----------



## rantanamo

*Friday afternoon Texas High School Football*

Incredible crowd for the anticipated matchup of Southlake's Mary Carroll High School vs Euless's Trinity High School. Southlake Carroll is the winner of the past 2 mythical high school national championships given by USA Today, and Texas 5a division II state champions 4 of the last 5 years. Trinity is a growing power who won 5a division I last season. Both teams came in undefeated, with Carroll carrying some incredible streaks into the game. They have not lost in the regular season in 6 years. The matchup was so anticipated that a gate crowd of 46,000 was announced at the beginning of the game. As you can see, the crowd continued to walk up. Keep in mind, Texas Stadium holds ~ 65,000. This is high school football. Not even college.


----------



## KansasCityMO

Yeah, Texas is crazy about their High School Football.


----------



## KansasCityMO

Also, in that last picture, why is the Cowboys backwards in the endzone? Is it just me or is something not right?


----------



## rantanamo

sorry, was a reversed image.


----------



## TallBox

who are the spectators? (family or students or what?)

how many students are there in the high schools?


----------



## Quintana

Who won?


----------



## rantanamo

Southlake Carroll has 2408 students
Trinity has 3765 students

A typical game in Texas would have about 10,000 students. There are always a lot more in the playoff, but usually not this many. There have been a few in the 40,000+ range, but I believe this is a record. The vast majority of spectators would just be interested, neutral parties. This matchup was anticipated as soon as both won state titles last season. Interesting contrasts between the two teams/schools/communities. Trinity is a very diverse school known for its unusually large concentration of Tongans(Euless has the largest population of Tongans in the US). Its a lower-middle to middle class community that lies just west of DFW airport. Southlake is about 5 miles north of Euless. I believe its second in Texas in per capita income behind Highland Park, is filled with upper-middle class to wealthy and their mansions, has lots of children of former pro athletes and is a vast majority 'white' school. I think a lot of people wanted to see the wealthy school go down, but it didn't happen. They've lost no games since the championship game in 2003, which they lost by 1 or 2 points.


----------



## EADGBE

How much were the tickets - compared with, say, Longhorns tickets and Cowboys tickets?


----------



## Wezza

That is crazy. High school? Do students have to pay for tickets?


----------



## irving1903

i was at that game it was crazy i have never seen Texas Stadium so Corwded for a High School game 

i seriously wanted the Trojans to win every one in Irving HATES SOUTHLAKE i know that there were a ton of people from our high school that went.

Its okay though Southlake will definety lose to ODESSA PERMIAN (the team from friday nigt lights) this friday


----------



## EADGBE

Wezza said:


> That is crazy. High school? Do students have to pay for tickets?


I don't know, hence the question. How much do you think it costs to hire a stadium like Texas Stadium? Staff wages, Security, overheads all have to be paid for by someone. 

Maybe it was free entry for all and the schools paid the hire charge (?), maybe Texas Stadium took its payment from food and souvenir sales. Maybe the event had a charge of $10 a ticket because they felt the market would stand it. I can speculate all day but I still won't know, so it made sense to ask...

Also, I have no idea what the relative pricing is for equivalent seats in NCAA and NFL, which is why I mentioned the Longhorns and the Cowboys.

Anyone?


----------



## rantanamo

Tickets this year were $10 for everyone, 2 or younger is free. $5 parking per car. The cheapest you'd get into a UT game would be $36 for bad seats. $60 for the Cowboys cheap seats. Yes, students pay to get in unless you are a band, drill-team member or have an athletics pass(athletes from other sports) from your school district.

The amazing thing is, many speculated that attendance would not be nearly what they expected because this was the day after Thanksgiving and many would be out of town. 

I'm wondering what the attendance will be like for the 5A state championship games this year. For the first time, they have pre-determined sites, with both games at the Alamodome and tickets are already on sale. Wonder if they will sell out once we know who makes it.


----------



## rantanamo

EADGBE said:


> I don't know, hence the question. How much do you think it costs to hire a stadium like Texas Stadium? Staff wages, Security, overheads all have to be paid for by someone.
> 
> Maybe it was free entry for all and the schools paid the hire charge (?), maybe Texas Stadium took its payment from food and souvenir sales. Maybe the event had a charge of $10 a ticket because they felt the market would stand it. I can speculate all day but I still won't know, so it made sense to ask...
> 
> Also, I have no idea what the relative pricing is for equivalent seats in NCAA and NFL, which is why I mentioned the Longhorns and the Cowboys.
> 
> Anyone?


Playing at Texas Stadium = $2500 per school per game. Every stadium will have a rental fee to cover lights, security and staff. This is usually covered by district or school athletic departments from their own earned revenue(ticket gate, concessions, advertising in programs and scoreboards, programs, etc) Concessions are run by Texas Stadium and include volunteer groups who are raising their own monies just as there would be on normal NFL gamedays. 

Normally, in the playoffs, Texas Stadium will host triple or quadruple headers(3 or 4 games in one day). The $10 gains access to every game and any seat in the lower bowl. If the lower bowl is filled, the upper tier is then opened. $10 is a bargain for even two games. Parking is charged as this is part of the city of Irving's lease agreement. They have a mandatory parking fee.

Again, a UT game would be $36 at the lowest if you have a friend or child with a sports pass and can get you guest tickets. The past few seasons this has been nearly impossible to do because of the number of donation and season pass seats. Many of these packages start ~$500 for bad seats. Suits are in the 10s of thousands

Cowboys cheap seats are $60. Again, many season tickets are sold, driving up the other seats as they become a rarity. You could likely pay $1500 for a good seat and season tickets start ~$1000 for bad seats and skyrocket into many times that as the seats get better. Suites go for crazy prices.

But we are talking about different levels of football here. People watch the NFL because they want to see some of the world's greatest athletes hit the hardest, run the fastest and run the most complicated schemes. People watch college for its great tradition, color and pageantry, more entertaining variety than the NFL and school spirit. High school ball is most exciting, most points, most mistakes, and a smaller helping of the color and pageantry of college football. Many are just there to see their kid play or perform in the band, or be cheerleaders. Different levels, but all are beloved.


----------



## Wezza

^^
Those prices are ridiculous for NFL games, but i guess if the demand is there, they can charge what they want!!

The cost of rent for the stadium to play a school match seems cheap enough??


----------



## EADGBE

Thanks Rantanamo. As ever, a very thorough job. I knew I could count on you.

One thing: Sure, there would be lots of family and friends at High School games, as you'd imagine - but 46,000? That's a lot of family and friends! They must have some big families in and around Dallas (come to think of if, there were quite a few Ewings) or there were lots of vaguely associated people there just to be part of the occasion. 

I'd guess there must have been a strong presence of alumni, just as in College football.

Also, $5,000 hires you Texas Stadium for what? 4 hours? That's very reasonable (especially with the dollar falling). I've been to wedding receptions that will have cost more per hour than that!

I should also add that this now looks like very good business for all concerned. Over $400,000 seat revenue all for an outlay of $5,000 goes straight into the local Schools' Sports authority. Texas Stadium gets concession sales from 46,000 hungry/thirsty spectators, Irvine City gets between $75,000 and $100,000 in parking revenue. Everyone gets a big game atmosphere at a fraction of the NCAA/NFL cost - and most get to see Jimmy Jr. get on the field.

As ever, I can only imagine that sort of thing happening here (sigh)...


----------



## Wezza

Not a bad way to make money!


----------



## The_Big_O

EADGBE said:


> Over $400,000 seat revenue all for an outlay of $5,000 goes straight into the local Schools' Sports authority. Texas Stadium gets concession sales from 46,000 hungry/thirsty spectators, Irvine City gets between $75,000 and $100,000 in parking revenue. Everyone gets a big game atmosphere at a fraction of the NCAA/NFL cost - and most get to see Jimmy Jr. get on the field.
> 
> As ever, I can only imagine that sort of thing happening here (sigh)...


Damn.


----------



## rantanamo

EADGBE said:


> Thanks Rantanamo. As ever, a very thorough job. I knew I could count on you.
> 
> One thing: Sure, there would be lots of family and friends at High School games, as you'd imagine - but 46,000? That's a lot of family and friends! They must have some big families in and around Dallas (come to think of if, there were quite a few Ewings) or there were lots of vaguely associated people there just to be part of the occasion.
> 
> I'd guess there must have been a strong presence of alumni, just as in College football.
> 
> Also, $5,000 hires you Texas Stadium for what? 4 hours? That's very reasonable (especially with the dollar falling). I've been to wedding receptions that will have cost more per hour than that!
> 
> I should also add that this now looks like very good business for all concerned. Over $400,000 seat revenue all for an outlay of $5,000 goes straight into the local Schools' Sports authority. Texas Stadium gets concession sales from 46,000 hungry/thirsty spectators, Irvine City gets between $75,000 and $100,000 in parking revenue. Everyone gets a big game atmosphere at a fraction of the NCAA/NFL cost - and most get to see Jimmy Jr. get on the field.
> 
> As ever, I can only imagine that sort of thing happening here (sigh)...


That game is not typical. The profile was just very high because they matchup has been anticipated since both won state championship last year. I'd imagine Texas Stadium will get at least that many fans over the course of a normal playoff Saturday, so yes, they are doing good business. This is precisely why you are seeing these great smaller stadiums all over the state of Texas. A given stadium that's popular can get a few games each week and rake in decent dough to be reinvested into their programs. Not to mention more events = more ad dollars.


----------



## Bigmac1212

*Husky Stadium Expansion plans*

Here's the link:

University of Washington unviels expansion/renovation plans

Here's the pictures:


















Another collegiate football stadium ditching the track. Although, I like the exterior.


----------



## Calvin W

With the endzone expansion capacity should be 80000+. Does the University need it?


----------



## Bigmac1212

*Oklahoma State's Football Stadium Expansion*

Here's some photos:


























It's sorta like what Florida State's got, minus the massive arena in one endzone.


----------



## rantanamo

I would think. U Dub is a pretty big program. I like that, look. Reminds me of an Alaho Stadium horseshoe.


----------



## Calvin W

So the one endzone + luxury boxes are being renovated/added?


----------



## rantanamo

Lambeau and Doak Campbell stadiums had an offspring. Two of my favorite stadiums, so I like it.


----------



## edsg25

what's the new capacity?


----------



## edsg25

all those new seats to fill...looks like the Huskies better return to being.....the Huskies.


----------



## Bigmac1212

Hopefully, none of the stadium will collapse, once construction starts.


----------



## 40Acres

Husky stadium is absolutely gorgeous -- and a great football program to boot. Very likable school and athletic dept. This looks like 3/4 of Neyland stadium, which is also a very cool stadium on the water.

I've never liked their track around the field. Nice to see that they are axing that.


----------



## Scba

Yeah. Not bad, but it looks like about a dozen other sites.


----------



## Jim856796

I somehow don't like the idea of axing the track. What if the renovations don't get approved?


----------



## rantanamo

that's what this makes me think of. I like.


----------



## rantanamo

Scba said:


> Yeah. Not bad, but it looks like about a dozen other sites.


which ones? I can think of the two that I mentioned.


----------



## TexasBoi

There was a picture floating around a couple years ago showing a similar capacity of fans in the Astrodome for a state championship game. I'm going to go out on the limb and say that no state can touch Texas as far as atmosphere and passion of high school football. It is very unique and very fun if you've never been to one. Entire towns shutdown from every Friday for games.


----------



## Mo Rush

invesco is awesome
phoenix
paul brown
reliant
soldier field


all fantastic venues


----------



## Jonestowncultinpicto

The Concerned Potato said:


> :lol:
> 
> 
> some other bad names
> 
> American Airlines Arena
> 
> Pizza Hut Park
> 
> Minute Maid Stadium
> 
> Pro Player Stadium
> 
> 
> i think in ice hockey, Nashville's rink is called "Gaylord Entertainment Center."
> 
> 
> 
> Or maybe it's "Gaylord recreation center"
> 
> 
> 
> Either way.... :lol:




Ali G would have a great time making fun of that . Gaylord entertainment was actually the people behind The Nashville Network or TNN , they are also involved in the grand ole opry and opry land theme park .


----------



## nyrmetros

any pics of the new stadium? wasn't there a thread already on this stadium? can they be merged?


----------



## AcesHigh

the new Grêmio stadium will be called probably either GERDAU ARENA MONUMENTAL (Gerdau is a local steel company), WAL MART ARENA (agh... WAL MART... yes... they are trying to get stronger in Brazil and specially enter my state) or PHILLIPS ARENA.

Sincerely, I kinda like GERDAU ARENA (the owner of Gerdau, Jorge Johanpetter Gerdau, is actually a counsellor of the football (soccer) club, cuz as you know, in soccer, the teams are usually CLUBS, not companies or franchises) and also the Phillips Arena. I even like Phillips Logo, and their colors are white and blue... add a bit of black and it will have the same colors as the team!!!


----------



## Rizzato

You cant be serious... dick's sporting goods park?

tell me you are joking?


----------



## NavyBlue

I must say you Americans are blessed when it comes to quality stadia's but here's a few stadiums that I believe deserve a little more credit...

*Cleveland Browns Stadium*









*FedEx Field Stadium in Landover*









*Bank of America Stadium in Charlotte*


----------



## Tampa on the move.

Seattle
Tampa
Phoenix
Houston
Denver


----------



## Mo Rush

oh my


----------



## TalB

Prudential Ctr, where the Devils will move to, has just been topped out.


----------



## Mr. Fusion

*Atlantic Yards plan gets final approval*

_BY BART JONES AND MELISSA MANSFIELD
Newsday Staff Writers_

Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver and Gov. George Pataki reached an agreement Wednesday clearing the way for a giant, $4-billion project that would reshape part of Brooklyn with office towers, apartment buildings and an 18,000-seat basketball arena hosting the New Jersey Nets.

The leaders agreed to move ahead with the 22-acre Atlantic Yards project after months of debate that pitted residents who fear destruction of Brooklyn's brownstone environment against officials and developers who believe it will create thousands of jobs.

The approval means "we can build critically needed housing, including affordable housing, new community facilities, grand open spaces and increase economic development all across Brooklyn," Pataki said. He added that he looks forward "to eating a hot dog as I watch the Brooklyn Nets play in Brooklyn's new arena in the 2009-2010 season."...

*Source: Here!*

:grouphug:


----------



## Mr. Fusion

*Revised Design: Brooklyn Nets Arena*

A departure from the entryways found at most other arenas, it appears they have instead put larger entrances in, eliminating the need for the smaller entryways spaced at every section:









ForestCityRatner Co

This and other images regarding the arena and Atlantic Yards project may be found on the aforementioned article link.

:grouphug:


----------



## nomarandlee

Thats very intreasting, didn't notice that at first. I wonder what the logic is behind such a set up. It still looks like it has a good number of exits.


----------



## moochie

*AA Arena, Dallas Texas*

I've just heard about this arena, and did a search, and can't find anything substantial on SSC. I've found plenty of info on google, but I'd really like to find more pics. Is there a thread about it? Can anyone find a good resource for it? It looks beautiful.


----------



## moochie

Ah, it's called "AA Center", not Arena. sorry about that. Mods, please feel free to delete this thread. I've managed to find what I need.


----------



## nyrmetros

nomarandlee said:


> Thats very intreasting, didn't notice that at first. I wonder what the logic is behind such a set up. It still looks like it has a good number of exits.


creates the impression of a larger crowd with a mass of people... IMO....
This new arena will unfortunately force MSG to do a major rennovation, or a complete build...... sad....


----------



## nyrmetros

Poor Lil Richard.......


----------



## ggaaxx

skaP187 said:


> What does it look like now?












The stadium will hold 53000 seats when it is complete.

The building at the end zone is a basketball arena.


----------



## 40Acres

I thought they would be much further along than that. Is is supposed to be done by Sept? 

Either way, that will be a badass stadium.


----------



## ggaaxx

40Acres said:


> I thought they would be much further along than that. Is is supposed to be done by Sept?
> 
> Either way, that will be a badass stadium.


The luxury boxes are done this year. The end zone will be done by Sept 2008.


----------



## rantanamo

Looks like the same stage that UT's stadium is, so the two year thing makes total sense.


----------



## th0m

That and the Gaylord Family Stadium for the Sooners are definitely some top-notch names for venues


----------



## Goothrey

That is a shame.

Naming a stadium after a company does the opposite affect of what it is intended to do. People are turned off by the company. I myself refuse to buy any of these companies' products in spite of the whole thing.


----------



## TalB

I would rather have the Nets stay in the Meadowlands or move to Newark with Devils rather than play in Brooklyn where people used to live.


----------



## Bay2Bay

*For the traditionalist...*

Lambeau Field, Green Bay, Wisconsin


----------



## nyrmetros

TalB said:


> I would rather have the Nets stay in the Meadowlands or move to Newark with Devils rather than play in Brooklyn where people used to live.


Ideally the Nets should move to Newark and hook up with the devils. There is no reasons this region needs FOUR 19, 000 seats arenas !!! (FIVE if the Brendan Byre Anrena is not torn down).


----------



## Mr. Fusion

nyrmetros said:


> Ideally the Nets should move to Newark and hook up with the devils. There is no reasons this region needs FOUR 19, 000 seats arenas !!! (FIVE if the Brendan Byre Anrena is not torn down).


It sounds excessive out of the context of a 22 million person population that makes up the New York metropolitain area.

With MSG V, Brooklyn Nets Arena, Prudential Center [Newark Arena] and a completely renovated Nassau Coliseum, it sounds as if Brendan Byrne would make a good conversion to an all indoor concert venue.

From Wikipedia:


> Continental Airlines Arena frequently is cited near the bottom of arena polls. It is commonly referred to as "cold and dull" in appearance, as well as being "cavernous". Recently, USA Today rated it the worst NBA arena. This has played a role in the Nets' and Devils' plans to vacate the arena. In an attempt to remain on par with the features of most modern arenas, circular LED rings were just installed on the facing of the upper level. The arena is also criticized for funneling both levels of the arena into one, crowded concourse. On the other hand, the arena is generally well-regarded for concerts, with its good sightlines and relatively good acoustics; the cavernous nature here can add to the drama of a top show.


:grouphug:


----------



## nyrmetros

It would make sense to convert the place to a permanent indoor concert venue/tradeshow place..... Absolutely no need for FIVE indoor arenas in this region..... Even FOUR is pushing it IMO.


----------



## nyrmetros

Is NYC a worldly sports capital ??


Care to take a stab at NYC? But we have to make 1 point established? Does NYC include the NYC region (which is parts of 3 states), or just NYC city limits proper ?

NYC region gives NYC a chance. NYC city limits does not.

NYC city limits:
Yankee Stadium - 56, 000
Shea Stadium - 55, 000
USTA (US Open Tennis) - Aurthur Ashe Stadium - 23, 000 (not sure about the other courts)
Madison Square Garden - 18,200 (ice hockey), 20, 000 (concerts)

Future:
Brooklyn basketball arena - 19, 000
Yankee Stadium - 50, 000
Mets Stadium - 45, 000




NYC Region:
Yankee Stadium - 56, 000
Shea Stadium - 55, 000
USTA Aurthure Ashe Stadium - 23, 000
Madison Square Garden - 19, 000
Nassau Colliseum - 17, 000
Giants Stadium - 80, 000
Rutgers Stadium - 45, 000
Brendan Byrne Arena - 20, 000
Yale Bowl - 64, 000


Future:
New Yankee Stadium - 50, 000
New Mets Stadium - 45, 000
Brooklyn Arena - 19, 000
New Nassau Colliseum - 19, 000
Newark Arena - 18, 000
Harison Stadium - 25, 000
New Giants Stadium - 83, 000


Total by 2010:
New Yankee Stadium - 50, 000
New Mets Stadium - 45, 000
Madison Square Garden IV - 19, 000
Aurthure Ashe Stadium - 23, 000
New Brooklyn Arena - 19, 000
New Nassau Colliseum - 19, 000
New Giants Stadium - 83, 000
New Newark Arena - 18, 000
New Harrison Stadium - 25, 000
Rutgers Stadium - 45, 000
Yale Bowl - 65, 000
Belmont Park - 200, 000
Aqueduct Track - 90, 000
Meadowlands Racetrack - 40, 000
Yonkers Raceway - 50, 000


----------



## nyrmetros

Goothrey said:


> That is a shame.
> 
> Naming a stadium after a company does the opposite affect of what it is intended to do. People are turned off by the company. I myself refuse to buy any of these companies' products in spite of the whole thing.


If only we were all like you.
In principle I hate it. However, if a company that I like sponsors a team or league that I like, I will be more abt to fork over some $.
However if I don't like the company, it doesn't matter who or what they sponsor.


----------



## TalB

Mr. Fusion said:


> It sounds excessive out of the context of a 22 million person population that makes up the New York metropolitain area.
> 
> With MSG V, Brooklyn Nets Arena, Prudential Center [Newark Arena] and a completely renovated Nassau Coliseum, it sounds as if Brendan Byrne would make a good conversion to an all indoor concert venue.
> 
> From Wikipedia:
> 
> 
> :grouphug:


If you were looking at the attendance figures of the NBA and ESPN.com, the Nets actually went up about seven spots last season on average.


----------



## el pato

#1 QWest: Deafening fans, amazing soundsystem, excellent setting. Was part of the halftime performance for yesterdays playoff game. My few minutes on the sideline were enough to convince me it's #1









#2 Reliant: nice freakin stadium









#3 Soldier Field 









#4 Gillette 









#5 FedEx: So there's only 8+ games a year and lots of people wanting to go to NFL games. At 91,665 it deserves more credit as a top stadium.









followed by
#6 Paul Brown (CIN)
#7 Arrowhead (KC) Old, but coolest shape and fans are close to game
#8 UofP (AZ) Excellent facility, horrible location. When will Phoenix learn? 
#9 M&T Bank (BAL)
#10 Heinz (PIT)

-sorry Eagles, Lincoln Financial seems like a rip off of Paul Brown. + I like PB more. 
-sorry Lions. Nice venue but football's meant for the outdoors. If you're gonna thrown tons of money into the stadium, at least put on a retractable roof.
-sorry Denver and Green Bay. I just ran out of room. I like both though.


----------



## jordancda

#1 Reliant
#2 Qwest
#3 Cleveland Browns
#4 Paul Brown
#5 Lambeau
#6 Bank of America
#7 Heinz
#8 University of Phoenix
#9 Li Fi
#10 Ford


----------



## nomarandlee

*Best/Most Historic N.A. Arena...*

This poll will only be of use to North Americans but of the old time areanas/stadiums do you think were the best or most iconic?


BEST for the NHL - 
BEST for the NBA - 
BEST OVERALL - 

Post some pics of the old stadiums as well if you got em'.

MOTREAL FORUM
MALPLE LEAFS GARDEN
CHICAGO STADIUM
BOSTON GARDEN
MADISON SQUARE GARDEN (prior versions included)


----------



## svs

nomarandlee said:


> This poll will only be of use to North Americans but of the old time areanas/stadiums do you think were the best or most iconic?
> 
> 
> BEST for the NHL -
> BEST for the NBA -
> BEST OVERALL -
> 
> Post some pics of the old stadiums as well if you got em'.
> 
> MOTREAL FORUM
> MALPLE LEAFS GARDEN
> CHICAGO STADIUM
> BOSTON GARDEN
> MADISON SQUARE GARDEN (prior versions included)


Most historic overall has to be the Los Angeles Colliseum. Two Olympic games, home of the USC Trojans, original home of the Rams, then the Raiders, site of multiple superbowls, home of the 1959 world series champion Dodgers. Is there any other stadium in the world that has been site of the Olympics, Superbowl, World series champions, and NCAA champions?


----------



## nyrmetros

Most historic arena is Madison Square Garden I, II, III, IV. 
Though just for 1 sport (hockey), either Maple Leafe Gardens or Montreal Forum.


----------



## nyrmetros

TalB said:


> If you were looking at the attendance figures of the NBA and ESPN.com, the Nets actually went up about seven spots last season on average.


The Nets would probably sell out in Bklyn. However, the true test is going to see who lives in Bklyn and remains loyal to the Knicks.


----------



## Overground

For hockey I'd have to go with the Montreal Forum.


----------



## victory

svs said:


> Most historic overall has to be the Los Angeles Colliseum. Two Olympic games, home of the USC Trojans, original home of the Rams, then the Raiders, site of multiple superbowls, home of the 1959 world series champion Dodgers.* Is there any other stadium in the world that has been site of the Olympics, Superbowl, World series champions, and NCAA champions?*


I'd guess no, but considering all but one of those events are purely American, it's really not that much of a feat.

And the LAC is not an indoor arena, it is an outdoor stadium.


----------



## ICP

victory said:


> I'd guess no, but considering all but one of those events are purely American, it's really not that much of a feat.
> 
> And the LAC is not an indoor arena, it is an outdoor stadium.


What he said ^^

NBA arena favourite for me is the old Chicago Stadium, or MSG I guess. 

NHL arena? Calgary Saddledome!!


----------



## Canadian Chocho

Again...Maple Leafs Gardens:


----------



## nyrmetros

ANyone know anything about the new Randalls Island stadium? Icahn field ?


----------



## Dreamlıneя

Great Thread!


----------



## Overground

Good on ya svs! This thread is probably what should have happened in the first place.

Before 1962 where did the Dodgers play? And also, before the had moved from Brooklyn(195?) did LA have a baseball team?


----------



## skaP187

Do I understand well that LA could hold Olympic wintergames as well??? ski area??? stunning, never thought that of LA (LA makes me think of beaches and stuff but allright then!)

P.S. impressive list!


----------



## AcesHigh

american stadiums are damn ugly and backwards, hardly they have nice transparent roofs like the european and japanese stadiums.


----------



## jimjones

AcesHigh said:


> american stadiums are damn ugly and backwards, hardly they have nice transparent roofs like the european and japanese stadiums.


They might not have transparent roofs but transparent roofs dont pay for tickets and fill the stands. transparent roofs dont pay rent as a long tern tenant and transparent roofs dont win championships. 

Los Angeles has plenty of tickets sold for probably the widest selection of sports a city has anywheres in the world. And they dont need transparent roofs to 
sell tickets. 

jim jones


----------



## jimjones

Overground said:


> Good on ya svs! This thread is probably what should have happened in the first place.
> 
> Before 1962 where did the Dodgers play? And also, before the had moved from Brooklyn(195?) did LA have a baseball team?


The LA Dodgers played at the LA memorial coliseum from 1958 to 1962. Three games of the 1959 world series were played in the coliseum with over 92,706 per game. The 1959 MLB all-star game was played there. team hanging dodgers stadium constructed. The highest attendance for a baseball game in the western hemisphere was between the new york yankees and the LA dodgers at 93,103 . FYI the largest attendance for a baseball games was at the melbourne cricket grounds in the late 1800's. 

LA had minor league teams who played at field owned by the Wrigley crewing gum family who owned the Chicago cubs. The california angels started as a minor league team. When the Dodgers arrived in LA the minor league team was colapsed and then granted an American League franchise in an expansion of that division of major league baseball in 1961. The American league angels played in wrigley field (los angeles) for 1961 and then shared dodger stadium from 1962 to 1966 when anahein stadium was opened. 

jim jones


----------



## svs

skaP187 said:


> Do I understand well that LA could hold Olympic wintergames as well??? ski area??? stunning, never thought that of LA (LA makes me think of beaches and stuff but allright then!)
> 
> P.S. impressive list!


I think it actually could though we would have to construct the ski jumps, luge and bobsled facilities. LA probably has more arenas capable of hosting an Olympic sized ice rink than any other city I know. There is an Olympic skating training facility currently in place at Lake Arrowhead, and many of the best American Olympic skaters Michelle Kwan, Sasha Cohen, etc. are from LA/OC.


----------



## svs

skaP187 said:


> Do I understand well that LA could hold Olympic wintergames as well??? ski area??? stunning, never thought that of LA (LA makes me think of beaches and stuff but allright then!)
> 
> P.S. impressive list!


I think it actually could though we would have to construct the ski jumps, luge and bobsled facilities. LA probably has more arenas capable of hosting an Olympic sized ice rink than any other city I know. There is an Olympic skating training facility currently in place at Lake Arrowhead, and many of the best American Olympic skaters Michelle Kwan, Sasha Cohen, etc. are from LA/OC.

PS. As I write this route 5 out of town is closed because of snow.


----------



## CharlieP

svs said:


> The English team celebrating their win in the 2005 IRS Soccer 7's held in Los Angeles.


Um, the England team won the 2006 IRB Rugby 7s in Los Angeles - is that what you meant?


----------



## svs

Yes, forgive the typos, I was tired when I posted. Just pointing out another international event for the Brits who refuse to believe anything of importance exists more than ten miles from the Thames.


----------



## jimjones

svs said:


> I think it actually could though we would have to construct the ski jumps, luge and bobsled facilities. LA probably has more arenas capable of hosting an Olympic sized ice rink than any other city I know. There is an Olympic skating training facility currently in place at Lake Arrowhead, and many of the best American Olympic skaters Michelle Kwan, Sasha Cohen, etc. are from LA/OC.
> 
> PS. As I write this route 405 out of town is closed because of snow.



SVS also to be mentioned with winter sports and LA is Ontario, California is currently constructing an ice hockey arena of 10,000 seats with the Anschultz group managing the the arena. That is 6 ice hockey arenas with over 10 k of seating a piece in a place that is known for being a sunbelt city with a desert in the region. Of course two are not currently active with tenants in Ice Hockey, LA Memorial Arena and The LA Forum. 

The problem I can see with hosting the winter games would be vertical drop for the downhill sking event and Cross country skiing would be out and that is a big part of the games. Ski jumps , bobsleds runs and indoor speed skating ovals are usually built even by northern cities for a winter olympics.

With the number of ice hockey arenas of 10k capacity being greater in number then Vancouver or most Canadian cities for number but not per capita I cant see too much of a problem . Speed skating has gone indoors and LA is more then capable to handle building a facility. 
Considering LA is the one of only two metro areas with two NHL franchises it is a testament to the popularity of the game when you also have long beach with a minor league team. LA with one NHL franchise(the ducks of anaheim) as exclusive sports tenant the Honda Center shows the strength as well. 
Hey maybe route 405 could be the cross country ski venue LOL

jim jones


----------



## svs

jimjones said:


> SVS also to be mentioned with winter sports and LA is Ontario, California is currently constructing an ice hockey arena of 10,000 seats with the Anschultz group managing the the arena. That is 6 ice hockey arenas with over 10 k of seating a piece in a place that is known for being a sunbelt city with a desert in the region. Of course two are not currently active with tenants in Ice Hockey, LA Memorial Arena and The LA Forum.
> 
> The problem I can see with hosting the winter games would be vertical drop for the downhill sking event and Cross country skiing would be out and that is a big part of the games. Ski jumps , bobsleds runs and indoor speed skating ovals are usually built even by northern cities for a winter olympics.
> 
> With the number of ice hockey arenas of 10k capacity being greater in number then Vancouver or most Canadian cities for number but not per capita I cant see too much of a problem . Speed skating has gone indoors and LA is more then capable to handle building a facility.
> Considering LA is the one of only two metro areas with two NHL franchises it is a testament to the popularity of the game when you also have long beach with a minor league team. LA with one NHL franchise(the ducks of anaheim) as exclusive sports tenant the Honda Center shows the strength as well.
> Hey maybe route 405 could be the cross country ski venue LOL
> 
> jim jones


Actually there is cross country skiing at Lake Arrowhead about an hour out of downtown. Here's info.http://www.rimnordic.com/Services.html. Mount Baldy has an vertical drop of 2100 feet. http://www.mtbaldy.com/ Shouldn't that be enough?

Didn't know about the hockey arena in Ontario though. Thanks.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

There is snow in West LA right now, first time since the 40's. maybe we can have cross country on Wilshire Blvd?


----------



## Benjuk

jimjones said:


> They might not have transparent roofs but transparent roofs dont pay for tickets and fill the stands. transparent roofs dont pay rent as a long tern tenant and transparent roofs dont win championships.


Obsessing with paying for tickets and filling the stands... Signing David Beckham... This way leads to hell.

Out of interest - how are the folks in the US/LA taking the news of Beckham's signing? Personally, I feel Galaxy are crazy paying so much for a bloke who basically stopped playing in 2002 and has been surviving on reputation ever since.


----------



## alwill

svs said:


> Yes, forgive the typos, I was tired when I posted. Just pointing out another international event for the Brits who refuse to believe anything of importance exists more than ten miles from the Thames.


The majority of brits do actually appreciate that not everything revolves around london, which is more than can be said about the typical tourist visiting us!!


----------



## jmancuso

AcesHigh said:


> american stadiums are damn ugly and backwards, hardly they have nice transparent roofs like the european and japanese stadiums.


apples to oranges. american football is best played out in the open and most stadiums reflect that. there are a few domed and more recently, retractable roof stadiums but there is nothing like watching a game in an open stadium.

same thing with baseball. there is something wrong watching a baseball game under a roof.


----------



## Weebie

London > LA

Don't get me wrong i hate gits but that infrastructure is no way near as good as london you d**khead yanks.

PS no one cares about stupid american sports anyway.


----------



## Benjuk

jmancuso said:


> apples to oranges. american football is best played out in the open and most stadiums reflect that. there are a few domed and more recently, retractable roof stadiums but there is nothing like watching a game in an open stadium.
> 
> same thing with baseball. there is something wrong watching a baseball game under a roof.


I don't believe he was talking about roofs that cover the pitch area - just the supporters... Something about watching a game that takes 3 hours in the pouring rain/snow - I just think it might be more comfortable with a roof above you. The players can get cold and wet, they're getting paid for it.


----------



## Billy321

> And staying with British invented sports.
> etc
> etc
> 
> Pitty your not any good at them.





> London > LA
> 
> Don't get me wrong i hate gits but that infrastructure is no way near as good as london you d**khead yanks.
> 
> PS no one cares about stupid american sports anyway.


Webbie = shit stirrer

Whats the piont?


----------



## Benjuk

gambit06 said:


> I assume the Gas won't be heading back to Twerton park for a spell?


Twerton's long gone, I think... How about Bath - I think they had a season or two there a while back.


----------



## 3SPIRES

^^ Twerton Park is Bath City's ground and it's still there, but i don't think it meets league standards.


----------



## gambit06

CharlieP said:


> PS What redevelopment? The Wikipedia page on Ashton Gate says that redevelopment of the Wedlock Stand _was_ to take place last season, taking capacity down to 15,000, but that this didn't take place (certainly, Bristol had a crowd of 21,203 against Bath last month)...


It has been put on hold as there has been some problem with the licensing for the bar that was to part of the stand (I kid you not) A lot of the advantage of the new stand was for the hospitality aspect. I think if they get promotion this year it may well give the relevant authorities a bit of a nudge.

Also reading the Bristol City forum today some people are not happy about what having Bristol Rugby playing at Ashton Gate week in week out will do to the pitch. Bristol Rugby will have to spend some money to keep it looking good and playable.


----------



## th0m

AcesHigh said:


> I know that stadiums must have roof protecting the entire crowd to host a FIFA World Cup match. Soccer stadiums all over the world have roofs, even the new stadiums in Brazil will all have roofs. Why on US they still build stadiums with no roof??? How primitive!


Stop trolling dude, seriously.


----------



## Benjuk

I love that 'lowly' 4th division clubs are getting themselves some nice stadia these days (Rover, Darlo, MK Dons, etc). Shows that ambition exists in all areas of English football.


----------



## The Concerned Potato

dont wish to offend any fans of Bristol Rovers or Bristol City, but i am AMAZED that at not one stage in their histories was a merge considered. Bristol deserves a big football club playing at the top end of English football


----------



## CharlieP

gambit06 said:


> Also reading the Bristol City forum today some people are not happy about what having Bristol Rugby playing at Ashton Gate week in week out will do to the pitch.


Bristol Rugby will play:

11 x Guinness Premiership games (12 if they finish in the top 2)
3 x Heineken Cup games (4 if they're one of the four best pool winners)
1 x EDF Energy Cup game

That's 15 home games, possibly 16, 17 if they do exceptionally well. Hardly "week in week out"...


----------



## gambit06

CharlieP said:


> Bristol Rugby will play:
> 
> 11 x Guinness Premiership games (12 if they finish in the top 2)
> 3 x Heineken Cup games (4 if they're one of the four best pool winners)
> 1 x EDF Energy Cup game
> 
> That's 15 home games, possibly 16, 17 if they do exceptionally well. Hardly "week in week out"...


It was a turn of phrase. Be that as it may one look at Readings pitch shows you how having a rugby team playing on the same ground can have an effect.


----------



## gambit06

The Concerned Potato said:


> dont wish to offend any fans of Bristol Rovers or Bristol City, but i am AMAZED that at not one stage in their histories was a merge considered. Bristol deserves a big football club playing at the top end of English football


THe chances of a merger are as likely as any other two teams playing in a city in England. Highly unlikely to 0. The two clubs represent two totally different parts of the city and the rivalry is deep seated. City had there chances of being a bit club but couldn't hold on at the right time. They've managed to flounder at a time when all the money came pouring into the game.


----------



## jimjones

*Well Again Los Angeles pulls it off*

Los Angeles will be host to the world figure skating championships in 2009. 

This certain puts LA in THE sports capital of the world class. 
Hey why not the last time London England hosted this event was 1950 and that was certainly not in an arena above 12,000 capacity. 

London however has hosted the worlds 4 times before 1951 and LA is having its 
first hosting in 2009. Hey La what took you so long too bizy counting money LOL.

jim jones


----------



## Kampflamm

> - You're talking about an American football stadium. A sport with a history of homefield advantage and big time fan interaction that effects the game in more than just a psychological fashion. Also a sport that has no real roof history.


Are you insinuating that there's no fan interaction or homefield advantage in soccer?


----------



## svs

jimjones said:


> Los Angeles will be host to the world figure skating championships in 2009.
> 
> This certain puts LA in THE sports capital of the world class.
> Hey why not the last time London England hosted this event was 1950 and that was certainly not in an arena above 12,000 capacity.
> 
> London however has hosted the worlds 4 times before 1951 and LA is having its
> first hosting in 2009. Hey La what took you so long too bizy counting money LOL.
> 
> jim jones


LA is not generally considered a "winter sports" venue, even though as you pointed out above, LA has more arenas that can support an Olympic skating rink than just about anywhere. (In addition to the 6 you mentioned, I suspect you could put one down in Pauley Pavillion, the Galen center, and the Walter Pyramid, but not entirely sure and of course there are two rinks at the Kings training facility in El Segundo.)

However since it snowed here last week, maybe we should push the winter sports a little harder.


----------



## Zaqattaq

Kampflamm said:


> The parking lots are made of grass?


Yes, they are just grass lots. This allows for the American tradition of tailgating.


----------



## palindrome

Kampflamm said:


> Are you insinuating that there's no fan interaction or homefield advantage in soccer?



I think for home field advantage he means that weather is an important part of home field advantage, which could specifically be seen last Sunday. The New Orleans saints (who play in a domed stadium) played the Chicago bears at Chicago, and the weather was terrible. This gave Chicago a clear advantage over New Orleans.


----------



## rantanamo

Kampflamm said:


> Are you insinuating that there's no fan interaction or homefield advantage in soccer?


When I make this statement, I mean that every 30 seconds in American football, a specific play and snap count are communicated from Offensive coordinator, to coach to QB or just coach to QB or Offensive coordinator to QB. This is relayed by the QB to the rest of the team on the field. This is preferrably done verbally because of the complexity of calling formations, blocking scheme, motion and where the ball is going. Then the QB from the line of scrimmage, must communicate blocking scheme and snap count, backs and lineman communicate schemes and point out blitzes before the ball is snapped. Fans can, have and will disrupt this communication, which makes it unique in sports. 

Of course fans in all sports can and do have a psychological effect on the game. This happens in American football too. The difference is, the fans can have a direct effect to the action on the field through penalties. Teams have developed different methods of combating this like silent counts, hand signals, and numbered wrist bands, but the complexity of plays pretty much gurantees that there are still communication problems at louder stadiums.


----------



## Kampflamm

zaqattaq said:


> Yes, they are just grass lots. This allows for the American tradition of tailgating.


What kind of super grass do they grow in South Florida? How can it withstand the wear and tear?

Anyway, you don't really need grass for tailgaiting.


----------



## EADGBE

jimjones said:


> Los Angeles will be host to the world figure skating championships in 2009.
> 
> This certain puts LA in THE sports capital of the world class.
> Hey why not the last time London England hosted this event was 1950 and that was certainly not in an arena above 12,000 capacity.
> 
> London however has hosted the worlds 4 times before 1951 and LA is having its
> first hosting in 2009. Hey La what took you so long too bizy counting money LOL.
> 
> jim jones


The problem I have with this is not your presumption that the 'a' should now become a 'the' in describing LA's 'world sports capital status'

The problem I really have is that somehow figure-skating is not just 'a sport' but one so profoundly important that it proves the first point.

Jim, rearrange these words:

straws, at, you're, clutching, mate!


----------



## Billy321

It has just been announced that London will be hotsing the world bog snorckling championships, in stanford bridge. If this doesnt if this doesn't confirm London as the greatest city on earth i don't know what will


----------



## jimjones

EADGBE said:


> The problem I have with this is not your presumption that the 'a' should now become a 'the' in describing LA's 'world sports capital status'
> 
> The problem I really have is that somehow figure-skating is not just 'a sport' but one so profoundly important that it proves the first point.
> 
> Jim, rearrange these words:
> 
> straws, at, you're, clutching, mate!


Yes the joke went over you head and if you are a guy I am not your MATE LOL. I dont MATE with guys sorry dude. 

Figure skating I really classify with cricket as a sport LOL. Actually I am sorry that is not fair to figure skating LOL. 

The sports capital of the world started with some london boosters and for all intense purposes they are wrong from the standard that makes the grade 
MONEY earned at the box office thru private means. 

The figure skating people have realized that Los Angeles equals a Big TV market and money. When is the last time figure skating choose London for those reasons???1950 . With the growth of TV since then you would think that London would have bid and hosted a couple of times in a sport capital of the world. 
Is it lack of interest, funding locally or lack of Commercial value in London that prevents London for 56 years ? Remember this is not like the Olympics as a four year event it is an annual event that has passed by a world city of 6 million people. 

I would think if people in London are part of A sport capital they should be able to host the world figure skating championships??? Halifax, Nova Scotia did in 1989. I would never link Halifax to being in a class with London however I just don't see many world championships hosted in London lately. OH unless it have something to do with soccer, cricket, darts , billiards, snooker or rugby. The sports world extends way beyond the boarders of the united kingdom. 

A world figure skating championships in Los Angeles is almost like holding them in Miami except LA has the training facilities and the heritage of recent champions on the womans side of the competition. London, I consider to be THE sports capital of Europe, should be able to host the world figure
skating and have hosted them as many time pre 1950 then post. Somehow that is not the case. 

jim jones


----------



## jimjones

Billy321 said:


> It has just been announced that London will be hotsing the world bog snorckling championships, in stanford bridge. If this doesnt if this doesn't confirm London as the greatest city on earth i don't know what will



What is that sports ROTFLMAO. What ever it is I calling my travel agent and booking my airflight and hotel as it must be important afterall it is in the worlds sports capital 

jim jones


----------



## EADGBE

jimjones said:


> Yes the joke went over you head


Well, judging from the length of your reply, it's a joke you're taking pretty seriously, too!



jimjones said:


> and if you are a guy I am not your MATE LOL. I dont MATE with guys sorry dude.


As if we hadn't seen it already, this sort of tells us just how disconnected you are from the UK, yet you seem to profess otherwise. It's a term we use a lot (sometimes ironically ) over here and in Australia. But, 'dude' will suffice - if you want to sound like Bill & Ted.



jimjones said:


> Figure skating I really classify with cricket as a sport LOL. Actually I am sorry that is not fair to figure skating LOL.


Sure cricket's an acquired taste but I find it difficult to call anything a sport where style marks are awarded. Where's the objectivity or accountability? A goal is a goal. A touchdown is a touchdown and so on. One judge's 5.9 is another judge's 6.0. You might as well call Miss World a sport!



jimjones said:


> The sports capital of the world started with some london boosters and for all intense purposes they are wrong from the standard that makes the grade
> MONEY earned at the box office thru private means.


Yeah, that's just how the Olympics got started, right? Have you ever heard of the Corinthian spirit?



jimjones said:


> The figure skating people have realized that Los Angeles equals a Big TV market and money. When is the last time figure skating choose London for those reasons???1950 . With the growth of TV since then you would think that London would have bid and hosted a couple of times in a sport capital of the world.
> Is it lack of interest, funding locally or lack of Commercial value in London that prevents London for 56 years ? Remember this is not like the Olympics as a four year event it is an annual event that has passed by a world city of 6 million people.


I think lack of interest, in all honesty. Don't forget we had olympic medallists in this period (John Curry, Robin Cousins and Torville & Dean). Maybe it's just not that exciting a prospect over here. I can imagine how all those sequins would appeal to the Hollywood wannabees in LA, though....



jimjones said:


> I would think if people in London are part of A sport capital they should be able to host the world figure skating championships??? Halifax, Nova Scotia did in 1989. I would never link Halifax to being in a class with London however I just don't see many world championships hosted in London lately.


Well, we have a cheese rolling world championship each year in Gloucestershire. Does that put it on a par with LA?



jimjones said:


> OH unless it have something to do with soccer, cricket, darts , billiards, snooker or rugby. The sports world extends way beyond the boarders of the united kingdom.


Now you're taking the piss. Soccer has more national representation than there are countries in the UN. Cricket is played in countries with a combined population over 3 times the size of the US. Rugby Union has sustained a four-yearly World Cup for over 20 years. Darts and snooker are obviously semi-sports that exist solely for the purposes of cheap TV. Nobody can even remember the rules to billiards, let alone play it.

You want to talk about extending beyond the borders? Let's take the one-time World League of American Football that became NFL Europe that should now be NFL Germany. Big success. Get the Rhein Fire into the AFC as a token foreign team and you could laughably call the Super Bowl winners the Champions of the world. Wait, that already happened in the MLB because the Toronto Blue Jays represent the rest of the world! World Series my arse!

And before you deride snooker, remember that the US likes to think it 'owns' the sport of pool - before getting beaten by Europe in the Mosconi Cup.



jimjones said:


> A world figure skating championships in Los Angeles is almost like holding them in Miami except LA has the training facilities and the heritage of recent champions on the womans side of the competition. London, I consider to be THE sports capital of Europe, should be able to host the world figure
> skating and have hosted them as many time pre 1950 then post. Somehow that is not the case.


Very gracious of you. So basically, if London can lure a few crappy sports to have their insignificant world championships there, it will overtake LA? 

Right then. Recently, the world Pie Eating championships was held once again in Wigan (which is, of course, the spiritual home of the pie). I propose we elevate it to Demonstration Sport status at the 2012 Olympics and hold the annual World Championships in the Sports Bar on Haymarket. Then, only then can we make a claim over the mighty Los Angeles!


----------



## svs

EADGBE said:


> Well, judging from the length of your reply, it's a joke you're taking pretty seriously, too!
> 
> 
> 
> As if we hadn't seen it already, this sort of tells us just how disconnected you are from the UK, yet you seem to profess otherwise. It's a term we use a lot (sometimes ironically ) over here and in Australia. But, 'dude' will suffice - if you want to sound like Bill & Ted.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure cricket's an acquired taste but I find it difficult to call anything a sport where style marks are awarded. Where's the objectivity or accountability? A goal is a goal. A touchdown is a touchdown and so on. One judge's 5.9 is another judge's 6.0. You might as well call Miss World a sport!
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's just how the Olympics got started, right? Have you ever heard of the Corinthian spirit?
> 
> 
> 
> I think lack of interest, in all honesty. Don't forget we had olympic medallists in this period (John Curry, Robin Cousins and Torville & Dean). Maybe it's just not that exciting a prospect over here. I can imagine how all those sequins would appeal to the Hollywood wannabees in LA, though....
> 
> 
> 
> Well, we have a cheese rolling world championship each year in Gloucestershire. Does that put it on a par with LA?
> 
> 
> 
> Now you're taking the piss. Soccer has more national representation than there are countries in the UN. Cricket is played in countries with a combined population over 3 times the size of the US. Rugby Union has sustained a four-yearly World Cup for over 20 years. Darts and snooker are obviously semi-sports that exist solely for the purposes of cheap TV. Nobody can even remember the rules to billiards, let alone play it.
> 
> You want to talk about extending beyond the borders? Let's take the one-time World League of American Football that became NFL Europe that should now be NFL Germany. Big success. Get the Rhein Fire into the AFC as a token foreign team and you could laughably call the Super Bowl winners the Champions of the world. Wait, that already happened in the MLB because the Toronto Blue Jays represent the rest of the world! World Series my arse!
> 
> And before you deride snooker, remember that the US likes to think it 'owns' the sport of pool - before getting beaten by Europe in the Mosconi Cup.
> 
> 
> 
> Very gracious of you. So basically, if London can lure a few crappy sports to have their insignificant world championships there, it will overtake LA?
> 
> Right then. Recently, the world Pie Eating championships was held once again in Wigan (which is, of course, the spiritual home of the pie). I propose we elevate it to Demonstration Sport status at the 2012 Olympics and hold the annual World Championships in the Sports Bar on Haymarket. Then, only then can we make a claim over the mighty Los Angeles!


I think this thread is getting a little out of control. As the token resident of Los Angeles in this thread, I have to say again that I don't think any one city is the World Capital of sport. There are a lot of places to consider with very good facilities and a history of hosting international games. It amazes me how defensive some of the London posts seem to be.

I would like to clear up some of the misunderstanding about the "World Series" which is basically the American baseball championship although Canadian teams have played. The term "World Series" is due to the original sponsor of the games, the New York World, a newspaper that no longer exists. About a third of major league players are born outside the USA and though they play for American teams that represent American cities, they retain their original citizenship. We were beginning to see the formation of national teams to at least take part in the Olympics until the Europeans decided to get rid of baseball as an Olympic sport partially out of Anti-American prejudice and partly out of an inability to find European venues to play the game. We can still play international baseball in the Pan American games but it seems a shame to not have a series where the Asian countries can play other than the Little League championships.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

Billy321 said:


> It has just been announced that London will be hotsing the world bog snorckling championships, in stanford bridge. If this doesnt if this doesn't confirm London as the greatest city on earth i don't know what will



LOL congrats! :banana:


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

svs said:


> I think this thread is getting a little out of control. As the token resident of Los Angeles in this thread, I have to say again that I don't think any one city is the World Capital of sport. There are a lot of places to consider with very good facilities and a history of hosting international games. It amazes me how defensive some of the London posts seem to be.
> 
> I would like to clear up some of the misunderstanding about the "World Series" which is basically the American baseball championship although Canadian teams have played. The term "World Series" is due to the original sponsor of the games, the New York World, a newspaper that no longer exists. About a third of major league players are born outside the USA and though they play for American teams that represent American cities, they retain their original citizenship. We were beginning to see the formation of national teams to at least take part in the Olympics until the Europeans decided to get rid of baseball as an Olympic sport partially out of Anti-American prejudice and partly out of an inability to find European venues to play the game. We can still play international baseball in the Pan American games but it seems a shame to not have a series where the Asian countries can play other than the Little League championships.



very cool, i never knew that.


----------



## Benjuk

svs said:


> I think this thread is getting a little out of control. As the token resident of Los Angeles in this thread, I have to say again that I don't think any one city is the World Capital of sport. There are a lot of places to consider with very good facilities and a history of hosting international games. It amazes me how defensive some of the London posts seem to be.
> 
> I would like to clear up some of the misunderstanding about the "World Series" which is basically the American baseball championship although Canadian teams have played. The term "World Series" is due to the original sponsor of the games, the New York World, a newspaper that no longer exists. About a third of major league players are born outside the USA and though they play for American teams that represent American cities, they retain their original citizenship. We were beginning to see the formation of national teams to at least take part in the Olympics until the Europeans decided to get rid of baseball as an Olympic sport partially out of Anti-American prejudice and partly out of an inability to find European venues to play the game. We can still play international baseball in the Pan American games but it seems a shame to not have a series where the Asian countries can play other than the Little League championships.


True - however, it doesn't alter the fact that tv commentators are often heard referring to the reigning World Series holders and Superbowl winners as 'the World champions'.

All this is irrelevent though - the thread is about "Los Angeles - A (not THE) world capital of sport."

Personally I'd say that L.A., London, and Melbourne, would be joint at the top of the list. All three have a tremendous array of venues and events and due to their wide spacing around the globe shouldn't be considered as threats to each other's status!!


----------



## rantanamo

They just look like grass RV columns or cheap car parks


----------



## jimjones

The thing is some of these British people know and acknowledge that they have a narrow local view of sports. It seems as a Canadian not from a major metro area I can examine the issue and make a good Judgement based on economic activity in this sector of business. 

Rattling someones chain in the process may be enjoyable but not my true purpose. Baseball by the way has over 170 national associations world wide. 
The headquarters for amateur baseball worldwide is in LAUSANNE Switzerland. 

The reasons for baseballs exclusion in the 2012 summer games was quite simple. 
The international federation could not see it attracting numbers in London at the Olympics so put it on the shelf to when it will next probably come to the Americas or an country with an upward trend for the game. Another reason was that major league baseball was cool to the idea as it really doesnt see growth potiential in England thus not wanting to break their season for a competition that would not promote the game . There are 40 teams with about 800 players in england. Compare that with fellow commonwealth nation australia with 57000 players on over 5000 teams and you see why baseball and softball where put on the shelf and will be voted for inclusion on a case by case basis. Other countries in Europe have well established pro leagues in Continential Europe. Holland and Italy come to mind. This is not as popular a sport as soccer is in europe but it is not bad for an american sport. Soccer does better in America then baseball does in Europe. Beijing makes sense to include baseball there because they are in a region that pro baseball is big with japan, south korea and taiwan all having pro leagues playing in stadiums the size of those in the major leagues in america. China itself has a 6 team pro league. 


As far as anyone in north america is probably concerned the India and Pakistan could probably run a world series of cricket and it would not be a big deal. Of course the world cup of cricket is in the carribbean this year. 
Must using the title of World be restricted to soccer at all times? 
No not really because with a world series of kayber tossing my province could field some great athletes in that as we do have some great highland games here. Same goes for Fergus Ontario and even North Carolina and southern California. 

Would it mean much not really. By the way there is the world classic of baseball and that was held for the first time in 2006 with 16 teams from every continent in the world with the exception of antartica . The best of pro baseball for the major leagues and the other nations with pro leauges were in the world classic of baseball.
Italy, The Netherlands, South Africa, Cuba, Dominica Republic, Canada, Australia, The peoples republic of China, Taiwan, Puerto Rico, Panama, Mexico
The United States, South Korea and Japan. Japan won the championship over Cuba, South Korea finished third and the Dominica Republic finished fourth
with no team from the mainland of the Americas qualifying for the finals.

There is a World cup of baseball with amatuers and the first place it was held was in Great Britian in 1938. Great Britian actually won the gold medal. 

Major League Baseball has the right to call it the World Series more now then anytime in history as 27 percent of the players of major league baseball are from 4 continents and that amounts to 223 of the 813 players are from countries other then the United States. Baseball is growing with the expansion of players in the major leagues from countries like Arbua, Venezuela, Curacao, Guam. 
Colombia, Taiwan , South Korea, Australia and Japan. 

jim jones


----------



## jimjones

Benjuk said:


> True - however, it doesn't alter the fact that tv commentators are often heard referring to the reigning World Series holders and Superbowl winners as 'the World champions'.
> 
> All this is irrelevent though - the thread is about "Los Angeles - A (not THE) world capital of sport."
> 
> Personally I'd say that L.A., London, and Melbourne, would be joint at the top of the list. All three have a tremendous array of venues and events and due to their wide spacing around the globe shouldn't be considered as threats to each other's status!!


and you are right three diverse sports cities with three different sports tastes. 
All deserving of sport capital titles

jim jones


----------



## svs

For what ever it is worth, I would have no problem with including cricket, rugby, golf, bowling, and chess in the Olympics. Its the Olympic committee that limits the number of sports. Hell I would even bring the tug of war back if people would watch it.


----------



## jimjones

svs said:


> I think this thread is getting a little out of control. As the token resident of Los Angeles in this thread, I have to say again that I don't think any one city is the World Capital of sport. There are a lot of places to consider with very good facilities and a history of hosting international games. It amazes me how defensive some of the London posts seem to be.
> 
> I would like to clear up some of the misunderstanding about the "World Series" which is basically the American baseball championship although Canadian teams have played. The term "World Series" is due to the original sponsor of the games, the New York World, a newspaper that no longer exists. About a third of major league players are born outside the USA and though they play for American teams that represent American cities, they retain their original citizenship. We were beginning to see the formation of national teams to at least take part in the Olympics until the Europeans decided to get rid of baseball as an Olympic sport partially out of Anti-American prejudice and partly out of an inability to find European venues to play the game. We can still play international baseball in the Pan American games but it seems a shame to not have a series where the Asian countries can play other than the Little League championships.


The World classic of Baseball was very good march of 2006 and is going to be played in 2009 and every year after that. All continents have national teams that are made up of the best of their pro players. Japan. Taiwan ,South Korea and china all have their top players in and Japan won the world classic of baseball last year. It was not really in baseballs best interest to be in london for 2012 because the growth is not in great britian for baseball. 

jim jones


----------



## BenL

Jim, your excessive anglophobia does get rather tedious. I do wonder what awful things may have happened to you here... In order to retain some face, perhaps you should leave this discussion to the more tolerant and informed, such as "svs"?


----------



## SouthBank

Oh dear - I appear to have created an unstoppable city-bashing monster with my London thread, suppose I should have seen that coming...hno: 

There is no doubt that London and L.A are both top world capitals of sport, as pointed out by some of the more sane and less zenophobic individuals here.. I have to say though that some of the stadiums/arena/tracks posted in this post are clutching at straws a bit - I cut off the London post at 10,000 seats plus, and didn't include horse-racing or motor-racing circuits. All that said, it's still an interesting comparison if you take this into account.

Just my opinion of course, but looking at it purely based on merit; I'd say that London is probably ahead of L.A with regards stadiums and L.A is probably ahead of London in terms of arenas. Given the popularity/unpopularity of certain sports in each city this makes perfect sense I suppose.

Have to say that there is also a lot of ignorance being shown here - many North American posters appear to underestimate the huge worldwide appeal of certain sports such as cricket, rugby etc, which sadly represents a fairly insular outlook of many from the continent in my experience.. Equally too many Europeans dismiss baseball and American football as irrelevant because they are mainly restricted to the Americas - this is surely all irrelevant when at the end of the day we're talking about stadiums and arenas here??

I've lived in the states and am a big fan of the 3 big U.S sports - American Football, Baseball and Basketball. There is no doubt at all that sport is as big a deal there as it is anywhere. I think it's a shame that some people on here take things so personally and can't appreciate things outside their own city/country/continent. I'm proud of being British and a Londoner - which is why I started the London post, but to anyone who seems hellbent on proving they are from the biggest/best place, please think about whether you really know what you're talking about or whether you're just being ignorant.:cheers:


----------



## Overground

Hear, hear, Southbank. Well said! 

It would probably be a good idea now that people should leave the discussion unless it is pertaining the thread title.

Question then. What was/or still is being used for the annual Rugby 7s tournament in LA? Will this be an on going thing?


----------



## svs

Overground said:


> Hear, hear, Southbank. Well said!
> 
> It would probably be a good idea now that people should leave the discussion unless it is pertaining the thread title.
> 
> Question then. What was/or still is being used for the annual Rugby 7s tournament in LA? Will this be an on going thing?


I basically agree that ranking is unnecessary. I only responded and began this thread because of the LA bashing from some of the Londoners. I have visited London numerous times and only have admiration for that city and I have a few British cousins myself. 

I put in the stuff about the surfing, beach volleyball and skiing to emphasize the opportunities LA give the inhabitants of the city to participate in sports as well as just act as spectators.

The rugby 7's tourney was held at the Home Depot center in Carson, the same place Beckham will be playing next year. As far as I know, this was a one time event. There is organized Rugby, both men's and women's teams played in LA on a semipro level. One of the best teams in the US is located in my little suburb of Santa Monica. They play at Corsair stadium at Santa Monica City College.


----------



## CharlieP

svs said:


> The rugby 7's tourney was held at the Home Depot center in Carson, the same place Beckham will be playing next year. As far as I know, this was a one time event.


The USA has been a host of the IRB Sevens since 2004, but after three years at Home Depot Center, the 2007 event will be held in San Diego's PETCO Park...


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## Amaruu

As soon as you expressly state that this is not a city v city thing, it becomes exactly that.

I live in Melbourne, it too likes to call itself the sporting capital of the world. You will never win an argument like this. It's pointless. Just accept the fact that as credentialled as you think your city is in being a world class sports city, there are other cities which can lay as much claim to that as yours can. 

From where I sit, and its just my perspective, London has the bigger sporting events, LA has a shitload more sporting venues.

But when I mean sporting events, I don't mean Olympics or those events which get shared around. Sooner or later, everyone will get to host an Olympics or World Cup. What I am referring to are those events which are permanently in your city.

Take Melbourne. It has:
AFL Grand Final
Melbourne Cup horse race, second biggest horse race in the world
Formula One Grand Prix
Motor Cycle Grand Prix
Australian Open, tennis grand slam

Take London:
FA Cup Final
English premier league fixtures
Wimbledon
Etc etc

No offence to LA, but other than hosting LA Lakers basketball matches and American football, there is not a lot of permanent sporting events which the rest of the world knows about. Nearly every American city has its own basketball team and football team. Whereas with London, their events seem more global.

Having said that, the pics of all the LA stadia, just the sheer number of them, is very impressive and its hard to imagine any other city in the world having as many venues as the selection above.

So, its a bit of 50/50 with LA and London. No-one is gonna win this argument.


----------



## svs

Amaruu said:


> As soon as you expressly state that this is not a city v city thing, it becomes exactly that.
> 
> I live in Melbourne, it too likes to call itself the sporting capital of the world. You will never win an argument like this. It's pointless. Just accept the fact that as credentialled as you think your city is in being a world class sports city, there are other cities which can lay as much claim to that as yours can.
> 
> From where I sit, and its just my perspective, London has the bigger sporting events, LA has a shitload more sporting venues.
> 
> But when I mean sporting events, I don't mean Olympics or those events which get shared around. Sooner or later, everyone will get to host an Olympics or World Cup. What I am referring to are those events which are permanently in your city.
> 
> Take Melbourne. It has:
> AFL Grand Final
> Melbourne Cup horse race, second biggest horse race in the world
> Formula One Grand Prix
> Motor Cycle Grand Prix
> Australian Open, tennis grand slam
> 
> Take London:
> FA Cup Final
> English premier league fixtures
> Wimbledon
> Etc etc
> 
> No offence to LA, but other than hosting LA Lakers basketball matches and American football, there is not a lot of permanent sporting events which the rest of the world knows about. Nearly every American city has its own basketball team and football team. Whereas with London, their events seem more global.
> 
> Having said that, the pics of all the LA stadia, just the sheer number of them, is very impressive and its hard to imagine any other city in the world having as many venues as the selection above.
> 
> So, its a bit of 50/50 with LA and London. No-one is gonna win this argument.


Well, we do have the LA open, the Santa Anita handicap, the Long Beach grand prix, the X-games, etc. etc. In America, the championships tend to get spread around a lot because we have a lot of great cities and even NYC is not dominant in the US the way London is in Britain. I grant that Melbourne is very impressive in the number and quality of its venues as well especially given Australia's overall population. I think what makes LA unique as a sporting capital is the number of opportunities the inhabitants have to participate in sports as well as just observe. I think that both Sydney and Melbourne resemble LA in this regard having great access to the Ocean and the beaches but of course, I suspect the skiing in Australia is probably not the best.


----------



## Sitback

I think people are missing the key point. You should look at it not as a number of different sports the city accomadates, but the figures involved with how many people watch it. Now football (soccer) is by far away, far far faaaaar away the most watched sport on Earth. The Premiership is the most watched sports league on Earth and London has 7 teams alone in the Premiership. We have the home of tennis which is one of the very biggest sports around, most certainly bigger then figure skating for christ sake. And the home of Cricket which no matter what you say. It's the biggest sport for 1/5 of the worlds population. Surely these things matter most. LA has a wide variety of sports and great stadiums and arenas, but the sports they host just don't grap the wider audience as you Americans would like to believe.


----------



## svs

Sitback said:


> I think people are missing the key point. You should look at it not as a number of different sports the city accomadates, but the figures involved with how many people watch it. Now football (soccer) is by far away, far far faaaaar away the most watched sport on Earth. The Premiership is the most watched sports league on Earth and London has 7 teams alone in the Premiership. We have the home of tennis which is one of the very biggest sports around, most certainly bigger then figure skating for christ sake. And the home of Cricket which no matter what you say. It's the biggest sport for 1/5 of the worlds population. Surely these things matter most. LA has a wide variety of sports and great stadiums and arenas, but the sports they host just don't grap the wider audience as you Americans would like to believe.


I think you are missing the point. You are still trying to play the city vs. city game. As for tennis, how many people play it, as opposed to watch it. Wimbleton is very nice one week a year, but what about the rest of the time?


----------



## Overground

svs said:


> The rugby 7's tourney was held at the Home Depot center in Carson, the same place Beckham will be playing next year. As far as I know, this was a one time event.The USA has been a host of the IRB Sevens since 2004, but after three years at Home Depot Center, the 2007 event will be held in San Diego's PETCO Park...





CharlieP said:


> The USA has been a host of the IRB Sevens since 2004, but after three years at Home Depot Center, the 2007 event will be held in San Diego's PETCO Park...


Ahh...k, thanks. It's too bad 'cause Home Depot Ctr's pitch is already set up for rugby, football where PETCO is a baseball park. How does the pitch set-up inside a baseball park for rugby? They must have to bring in seating so it levels out the sides...trying to visualise what it would look like.


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## Overground

No worries I've answered my question about Petco's rugby set-up. The baseball left-centre field doesn't have additional seating brought up to the touchline. So I guess they would allow people to sit in the usual outfield seats if they wanted. Though Petco is bigger and more seats I think Home Depot, with added seats would be the better choice. Here is the render -


----------



## Sitback

svs said:


> I think you are missing the point. You are still trying to play the city vs. city game. As for tennis, how many people play it, as opposed to watch it. Wimbleton is very nice one week a year, but what about the rest of the time?


A lot of people play tennis actually.


----------



## Elsongs

svs said:


> LA is not generally considered a "winter sports" venue, even though as you pointed out above, LA has more arenas that can support an Olympic skating rink than just about anywhere. (In addition to the 6 you mentioned, I suspect you could put one down in Pauley Pavillion, the Galen center, and the Walter Pyramid, but not entirely sure and of course there are two rinks at the Kings training facility in El Segundo.)
> 
> However since it snowed here last week, maybe we should push the winter sports a little harder.


It also didn't stop this girl from Torrance from becoming an Olympic medalist:










...I believe her name is Michelle Kwan.


----------



## jimjones

SouthBank said:


> Oh dear - I appear to have created an unstoppable city-bashing monster with my London thread, suppose I should have seen that coming...hno:
> 
> There is no doubt that London and L.A are both top world capitals of sport, as pointed out by some of the more sane and less zenophobic individuals here.. I have to say though that some of the stadiums/arena/tracks posted in this post are clutching at straws a bit - I cut off the London post at 10,000 seats plus, and didn't include horse-racing or motor-racing circuits. All that said, it's still an interesting comparison if you take this into account.
> 
> Just my opinion of course, but looking at it purely based on merit; I'd say that London is probably ahead of L.A with regards stadiums and L.A is probably ahead of London in terms of arenas. Given the popularity/unpopularity of certain sports in each city this makes perfect sense I suppose.
> 
> Have to say that there is also a lot of ignorance being shown here - many North American posters appear to underestimate the huge worldwide appeal of certain sports such as cricket, rugby etc, which sadly represents a fairly insular outlook of many from the continent in my experience.. Equally too many Europeans dismiss baseball and American football as irrelevant because they are mainly restricted to the Americas - this is surely all irrelevant when at the end of the day we're talking about stadiums and arenas here??
> 
> I've lived in the states and am a big fan of the 3 big U.S sports - American Football, Baseball and Basketball. There is no doubt at all that sport is as big a deal there as it is anywhere. I think it's a shame that some people on here take things so personally and can't appreciate things outside their own city/country/continent. I'm proud of being British and a Londoner - which is why I started the London post, but to anyone who seems hellbent on proving they are from the biggest/best place, please think about whether you really know what you're talking about or whether you're just being ignorant.:cheers:


Well south bank I think it is a very subjective thing of course. 
As a north american I can take the view that LA has the title because of a preceived Bias but really what convinces me is a few factors, 
Money spent
Diversity of the sports followed and supported by the population 
Involvement of the Business Class in the franchises. 
Te production of high performance athletes. 
on those three counts LA would have it hands down 

But on the side of London is that you have long standing club histories
Some new venues
and a world wide recognized institution like Wimbelton that LA does not have with maybe the except of the Rose Bowl new years day game. 

Stadiums without tenants to me is just an exercise in archtecture. 
Money may not be the standard people in great britian use but it is certainly the standard I use in Canada. LOL

jim jones


----------



## Elsongs

Speaking of Wimbledon, these two sisters from Los Angeles have done quite well there


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## Benjuk

Elsongs said:


> Speaking of Wimbledon, these two sisters from Los Angeles have done quite well there


Aye, but they had to leave the city in order to play in a Grand Slam tournament. London, Paris, Melbourne, New York - a pretty good line-up of Sporting Capitals.


----------



## svs

Benjuk said:


> Aye, but they had to leave the city in order to play in a Grand Slam tournament. London, Paris, Melbourne, New York - a pretty good line-up of Sporting Capitals.


Only if you define sporting capital as tennis. While conceding London and Melbourne's superiority as having the best facilities for watching tennis, I suspect LA has more courts than any city in the world although most of them are private. At any rate LA's superiority as the capital of basketball, the one sport that everyone can agree is a world sport still remains. Home of the Lakers the most popular and successful basketball team of the last 35 years, the Clippers, the Sparks, and UCLA Bruin's not to mention USC coming on strong. For whatever its worth most Americans consider Tennis more a sport for playing than for watching and would rank its importance below American football, basketball, baseball, ice hockey, NASCAR racing, and golf. Other countries of course would rank these differently which is why it is stupid to keep playing this "my city is the best" game. London, Melbourne, Paris, and New York are great sports centers, but LA can hold its own with any of them. As to who's number #1, it depends on what is the most important to you.


----------



## SouthBank

jimjones said:


> Well south bank I think it is a very subjective thing of course.
> As a north american I can take the view that LA has the title because of a preceived Bias but really what convinces me is a few factors,
> *Money spent
> Diversity of the sports followed and supported by the population
> Involvement of the Business Class in the franchises.
> Te production of high performance athletes.
> on those three counts LA would have it hands down *
> 
> *But on the side of London is that you have long standing club histories
> Some new venues
> and a world wide recognized institution like Wimbelton that LA does not have with maybe the except of the Rose Bowl new years day game. *
> 
> Stadiums without tenants to me is just an exercise in archtecture.
> Money may not be the standard people in great britian use but it is certainly the standard I use in Canada. LOL
> 
> jim jones


Lol! I don't even know where to start with this - I do actually wonder whether you're taking the piss..

All the things highlighted in bold above are based entirely on your blinkered-view of the world and are so obviously not true and/or irrelevant to anyone with a bit of sense that it's ridiculous. I suggest you re-read what you've written, then go and find some sort of concrete evidence for any of the points you are making.. and even if you could, I have no doubt that someone else could come along and find evidence to the complete contrary.

I also think you need to read through this thread again and actually allow some of it to sink in this time - none of the Stadiums listed in the London thread are without tenants, it's just that once again, the nature of some of those tenancies doesn't fit with your North America-centric understanding of sport. Wembley, for example will be used as much as any NFL stadium each year.

I'm not trying to be nasty here, I just want you to take those blinkers off for a minute - I mean, do you honestly truly believe that the new years game at the Rose Bowl is equal to Wimbledon in terms of global awareness, or that somehow the 'Business Class' is more involved in sport in L.A?? Please..




svs said:


> At any rate LA's superiority as the capital of basketball, the one sport that everyone can agree is a world sport still remains.


C'mon - Basketball is the one true world sport?? You really need to step away from the idea that if it isn't big in America, it doesn't count. I'm not saying Basketball isn't big enough worldwide to be considered a global sport - it is; it's just that as many people have said before, Football (as in non-American Football) is far, far, far away a more global sport than Basketball, or anything else for that matter.

I do appreciate, however, that you at least acknowledge that there is no way of finding 'The' sporting capital of the world, unlike some people here, I just wish you wouldn't keep ruining your own argument by throwing up comments like this!


----------



## BenL

Svs said that basketball is _a_ world sport - not _the _world sport. This is undeniably true.

I find Jim Jones' ultra capitalistic view of the world quite hilarious where "money spent" and "production" of athletes comes above all. People aren't made on a construction line Jim...


----------



## svs

SouthBank said:


> Lol! I don't even know where to start with this - I do actually wonder whether you're taking the piss..
> 
> All the things highlighted in bold above are based entirely on your blinkered-view of the world and are so obviously not true and/or irrelevant to anyone with a bit of sense that it's ridiculous. I suggest you re-read what you've written, then go and find some sort of concrete evidence for any of the points you are making.. and even if you could, I have no doubt that someone else could come along and find evidence to the complete contrary.
> 
> I also think you need to read through this thread again and actually allow some of it to sink in this time - none of the Stadiums listed in the London thread are without tenants, it's just that once again, the nature of some of those tenancies doesn't fit with your North America-centric understanding of sport. Wembley, for example will be used as much as any NFL stadium each year.
> 
> I'm not trying to be nasty here, I just want you to take those blinkers off for a minute - I mean, do you honestly truly believe that the new years game at the Rose Bowl is equal to Wimbledon in terms of global awareness, or that somehow the 'Business Class' is more involved in sport in L.A?? Please..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C'mon - Basketball is the one true world sport?? You really need to step away from the idea that if it isn't big in America, it doesn't count. I'm not saying Basketball isn't big enough worldwide to be considered a global sport - it is; it's just that as many people have said before, Football (as in non-American Football) is far, far, far away a more global sport than Basketball, or anything else for that matter.
> 
> I do appreciate, however, that you at least acknowledge that there is no way of finding 'The' sporting capital of the world, unlike some people here, I just wish you wouldn't keep ruining your own argument by throwing up comments like this!


What I said is that basketball is a sport played everywhere in the world, unlike baseball played mainly in the western hemisphere and Asia or cricket, played basically where ever the British empire once set its flag or even soccer/foootball. You make the same arguement you accuse me of, saying if sport isn't big in Europe it doesn't count.

This one reason why there can never be a concensus "world sport capital". Most Brits have no respect for American Football and baseball, and frankly most Americans think soccer is a good game for children that haven't attained full bone growth, and that cricket is a good way to catch up on your sleep. As important as Premier league football, is to you, for us it is as interesting as major league baseball is to you. We weren't raised with it; it's just not that interesting to us. I wouldn't expect you to care about the superbowl as much as we do. As I have said in the past, I only started this thread to defend my city against the anti-LA bashers that seem mostly to come from London for reasons I really don't understand. I hope London has a great olympics and that you all come to LA for the Olympics in 2016.


----------



## SouthBank

svs said:


> What I said is that basketball is a sport played everywhere in the world, unlike baseball played mainly in the western hemisphere and Asia or cricket, played basically where ever the British empire once set its flag or even soccer/foootball. You make the same arguement you accuse me of, saying if sport isn't big in Europe it doesn't count.





BenL said:


> Svs said that basketball is a world sport - not the world sport. This is undeniably true.


If you re-read my post, I acknowledged that basketball _is_ a world sport, I just don't agree that it is "the one sport that everyone can agree is a world sport", something that is far more applicable to football/soccer, and certainly not just wherever the British Empire stretched too either, hence basketball not being the one sport that everyone can agree is global!

Also - svs, I've lived in the US and do infact care about gridiron, baseball and basketball. I fully acknowledge that both basketball and baseball could be considered world sports, although gridiron is not there yet. The simple fact, remains, however, that all the main sports that are big in London/UK _are_ also big globally - football, rugby, cricket are all at least as popular in 2-3 other continents. As such, I don't make the same argument that I accuse you of at all, I just wanted you to acknowledge that because a game isn't big in America, it doesn't mean that those hundreds of nations around the world that _do_ care are irrelevant!


----------



## CharlieP

Overground said:


> No worries I've answered my question about Petco's rugby set-up. The baseball left-centre field doesn't have additional seating brought up to the touchline. So I guess they would allow people to sit in the usual outfield seats if they wanted. Though Petco is bigger and more seats I think Home Depot, with added seats would be the better choice. Here is the render -


Here's the plan as well:


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## Flyboy41

*John Paul Jones Arena -- Charlottesville, Virginia USA*

The new home of the University of Virginia Cavaliers men's and women's basketball.
From the arena website 
The name of the new 16,000 seat arena at the University of Virginia has people wondering. Where did that name come from? Is it named after the Revolutionary War Hero? Did the Led Zeppelin Bassist have ties to Charlottesville? Neither.

The new state of the art facility is recognition and a thank you from a son to his father.

Paul Tudor Jones II, a 1976 U. Va. graduate, made an extraordinary $35 million commitment to the University of Virginias newest arena and was granted his naming request to honor his father, John Paul Jones. Mr. Jones has described his fathers life as being dedicated to four things: his faith, his family, the University of Virginia and basketball. Jones senior is a 1948 graduate of the Universitys School of Law who currently lives in Memphis. His love of the University has never faded. He continues to participate in alumni functions, including serving three years as president of his alumni chapter and helping prospective U. Va. students through the admission process.

Basketball is a passion he shares with son Paul. Jones the younger was the first alumnus to voice concern that the University needed to replace the aging University Hall. In November 2001, he made a 10-year $20 million pledge that put the Arena project on the fast track. The ground breaking for this state of the art facility was May 30, 2003. The John Paul Jones Arena is the first facility in the country built by a public university almost entirely from private funds. It will also hold the title of the largest arena in the Commonwealth of Virginia.

Construction was completed during the Summer 2006. The arena is home to University Men's and Women's Basketball teams and host to a myriad of attractions including concerts, family shows, and community events. The Arena's inaugural lineup included such diverse acts as WWE Monday Night RAW, James Taylor, Kenny Chesney, Dave Matthews Band, The Wiggles Live and Eric Clapton.

The front entrace is designed to reflect the architecture of the campus










The interior is a horseshoe shape which makes for a great concert venue. I should know, I was there for a concert and my seats were great in the upper deck.
http://graphics.ocsn.com/schools/va/graphics/new-arena-landscape-plan.gif

The interior features state of the art scoreboards and luxury boxes
http://fmweb.virginia.edu/fpc/arenaproject/Sitework/SiteWorkJuly06.htm

One of the nicest arenas I've been to.


----------



## jimjones

OMG who would know the Bass player of Led 
Zeppelin would have an arena named after him in north carolina 

Jim jones


----------



## jimjones

Benjuk said:


> Aye, but they had to leave the city in order to play in a Grand Slam tournament. London, Paris, Melbourne, New York - a pretty good line-up of Sporting Capitals.


STRAIGHT out of muther #$$%^#& COMPTON homeboy . Dizzle to K Gizzle 

jim jones


----------



## jimjones

Elsongs said:


> Speaking of Wimbledon, these two sisters from Los Angeles have done quite well there


You know where the championship resides usually shows the support of the local community. I dont know if the William sisters where the product of the largest 
Olympic endowment fund in the history of the games with the 1984 Los Angeles Games but we will have to see what comes from the massive profits from 
London 2012 to pass judgement. London should be able to do better in 2012 then it did in 1948 . 

Yes london should be able to make 220 million america from their hosting duties after all they are taking a page from LA and funding the games 100 percent from the private sector  Glad they are getting that expertise via the anschultz group of los angeles who are redeveloping the O2 dome. 

jim jones


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## nyrmetros

nada ?


----------



## Lostboy

_What I said is that basketball is a sport played everywhere in the world, unlike baseball played mainly in the western hemisphere and Asia or cricket, played basically where ever the British empire once set its flag or even soccer/foootball. You make the same arguement you accuse me of, saying if sport isn't big in Europe it doesn't count._

Shame you have had to spoil a fairly good run of posts with hateful ignorance. Football is least successful in countries most heavily associated with the British Empire.


----------



## svs

SouthBank said:


> If you re-read my post, I acknowledged that basketball _is_ a world sport, I just don't agree that it is "the one sport that everyone can agree is a world sport", something that is far more applicable to football/soccer, and certainly not just wherever the British Empire stretched too either, hence basketball not being the one sport that everyone can agree is global!
> 
> Also - svs, I've lived in the US and do infact care about gridiron, baseball and basketball. I fully acknowledge that both basketball and baseball could be considered world sports, although gridiron is not there yet. The simple fact, remains, however, that all the main sports that are big in London/UK _are_ also big globally - football, rugby, cricket are all at least as popular in 2-3 other continents. As such, I don't make the same argument that I accuse you of at all, I just wanted you to acknowledge that because a game isn't big in America, it doesn't mean that those hundreds of nations around the world that _do_ care are irrelevant!


Goodness, I never said that hundreds of nations are irrelevant. I just pointed out that soccer football is not all that important to me and cricket less and that fact would color how I would rank any so-called world capital of sport. I have been in Europe during two World cups, and of course we have sponsored the world cup here. I certainly acknowlege that soccer football is important globally, if that will make you happy. This still doesn't have anything to do with what city is the world capital of sports. 

Somebody made a snotty comment about the four cities that host tennis grand slams being the capitals of sport, so I pointed out that LA can be considered the capital of basketball as a balance. I think I can defend that.

Although, I don't personally follow soccer football all that closely myself, (this should be pretty obvious by now) I certainly have a lot of friends and aquaintances who do. When I worked in South Central LA, a lot of soccer was watched in the lunch room, but you know, it wasn't Premier league soccer. Folks here who do follow soccer are much more interested in Mexican league, Central American, and South American Games. La Opinion (Spanish language) which is actually the number two newspaper in LA devotes more than 50% of its sports page to soccer/football, again mostly Mexican league, central and South American, as well as to the Galaxy, Chivas, and our professional soccer league. There is some coverage of continental football, especially if South American players are involved, but British football is just not of all that much interest here. I suspect the global audience for Premier league has more to do with Sky broadcasting than the actual quality of the teams. Again, I am not an expert here, I am just going by Britains' record in the World cup.

Until, I see a little more interest in cricket in countries that were never colonized by Britain, I still have to consider that one a local sport, while acknowleging that the British empire at its height was incredibly spread out and obviously influential. When then Italians and Greeks start playing cricket, we can talk. As for rugby, I have to admit, it is a great sport, my daughter played intramural rugby at University of California Santa Cruz, as I have mentioned before, my little suburb of Santa Monica has one of the best rugby teams in the US, but again I think its of a lot more interest to folks in the Commonwealth, than the world at large.

You are just proving my point that any opinion of whtever city is going to be called the world capital of almost anything is going to be an opinion which is not the same as a fact. Can we still be friends?


----------



## svs

Lostboy said:


> _What I said is that basketball is a sport played everywhere in the world, unlike baseball played mainly in the western hemisphere and Asia or cricket, played basically where ever the British empire once set its flag or even soccer/foootball. You make the same arguement you accuse me of, saying if sport isn't big in Europe it doesn't count._
> 
> Shame you have had to spoil a fairly good run of posts with hateful ignorance. Football is least successful in countries most heavily associated with the British Empire.


I don't think "hateful" applies. We are all ignorant about some things. I admit my phrasing was not good. I was trying to say that cricket, as far as I can tell is a sport basically only played in the Commonwealth. Soccer football is obviously a different case. See the above post for clarification of what I was trying to say.


----------



## Benn

The Facade does match the UVA campus very well, and it certanly has a unique look to it, but I have some issues with the bowl. Its very aesthetically pleasing, but its built like a concert venue first and a basketball arena second, the back end of the horseshoe is distant for an NBA arena yet its just under 16,000 seats. As a unque idea I like it, but its not something I would copy as far as big (12,000+) arenas are concerned.


----------



## jimjones

Lostboy said:


> _What I said is that basketball is a sport played everywhere in the world, unlike baseball played mainly in the western hemisphere and Asia or cricket, played basically where ever the British empire once set its flag or even soccer/foootball. You make the same arguement you accuse me of, saying if sport isn't big in Europe it doesn't count._
> 
> Shame you have had to spoil a fairly good run of posts with hateful ignorance. Football is least successful in countries most heavily associated with the British Empire.


Well lets examine it. Basketball and Soccer really are played in the same amounts of popularity across the globe but of course soccer is played in much larger venues globally. Even in the US soccer has that quality despite being about 6th on the scale for popular sport for pro leagues. Soccer however does have mass appeal for girls in north america. Today has about 11 million of both sexes play amateur soccer in america . Soccer in all fairness is a way beyond just the British Empire as to a certain degree baseball is beyond the Americas and Asia. South and Central American countries have great soccer histories with Montevideo Uruguay being the first place the Fifa World cup was played in 1930. Considering South America has hosted four times out of the 18 times and would have been 5 times if Colombia had honored its hosting duties in 1986 it is a very good record of hosting of between 20 to 25 percent of the time. The British Empire has however only hosted once of about 5 percent of the time with once in England 1966. 
Then if you include Mexico's two hostings and the united states hosting once the Americas have certainly done well. British Empire countries by 2010 would only had hosted twice with england in 1966 and south africa in 2010. 

You consider that world cup 1994 had attendances with (all person seated) for every game played(many in round play games without the united states playing) in the rose bowl at levels that wembley had for games that england was playing. Some games at the rose bowl had more then england on home soil in Wembley in 1966. Wembley's advantage besides having a soccer mad English public to draw from was they could cram people in standing room sections above the 72,000 mark that is commonly used for the old wembley stadium. 

If a world cup was held in the new Wembley the stadium would not match one single games attendance that the rose bowl had during 1994. 
The New Wembley will not break the single game attendance record set in los angeles' rose bowl for two record soccer games. the record for the largest attendance for a soccer game during an olympics or a fifa womens world cup game. 

50,535 was the lowest attendance for a game in the United States for World cup 1994. 16,000 was the lowest attendance for a game for World cup 1966 in England. Gee I wonder why England, which I truly consider the World capital of soccer, could not manage to numbers that are experienced in America except when England took the field ? It is a very simple cause and effect . 
England has a population that is multi-cultural today but didn't really have it as much in the 1960's . Los Angeles and America was built on multiculturalism that provides audiences for wide range of sports beyond traditional homegrown sports. Ex pat Canadians make up great number of the ice hockey faithful in the southern united states. The LA galaxy is supported by the Hispanic community of LA in very large numbers as is the CD Chivas of the Mexican soccer league playing in the LA Galaxy home stadium the home depot center. I would not doubt that the Rugby Sevens matches at San Diego's Petco Field would be attended in great numbers made up of the Australia, New Zealand, British and South Pacific Island ex pat communities in Southern California. It is not the population numbers that make for great support across the board it is the huge variety in the demographic for South California. 
Hateful ignorance no just a knowledge in research of all places .

Jim Jones


----------



## Billy321

SVS u are starting 2 sound as bad as jim! 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ICC-cricket-member-nations.png

have a look at the link and re-think your comment about cricket benig a local sport. If u think the distribution on that map shows cricket 2 be a 'local sport' then i want some of what you have been taking!! 

As for the premiership, it is the most watched league in the world, and the statndard is very high, *arguably* the best in the world, alot of the best players in the world play in the premiership. The reason this doesnt translate into world cup success is because most of the best players are from forien nations. The actual england team is pants!


Anyway does anyone know what sort of crowds the rugby games in PEPCO attract? I would have thought it would be easyier and cheaper to play the games in a smaller retangular staduim, LA has got enough of them!


----------



## Mr. Fusion

nyrmetros said:


> ANyone know anything about the new Randalls Island stadium? Icahn field ?


http://www.risf.org/projects_track2.html

:grouphug:


----------



## svs

Billy321 said:


> SVS u are starting 2 sound as bad as jim!
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ICC-cricket-member-nations.png
> 
> have a look at the link and re-think your comment about cricket benig a local sport. If u think the distribution on that map shows cricket 2 be a 'local sport' then i want some of what you have been taking!!
> 
> As for the premiership, it is the most watched league in the world, and the statndard is very high, *arguably* the best in the world, alot of the best players in the world play in the premiership. The reason this doesnt translate into world cup success is because most of the best players are from forien nations. The actual england team is pants!
> 
> 
> Anyway does anyone know what sort of crowds the rugby games in PEPCO attract? I would have thought it would be easyier and cheaper to play the games in a smaller retangular staduim, LA has got enough of them!


Looking at your map, the group of full memberslooks a lot like the old British Empire to me, Britain, Australia, India, Pakistan, South Africa, NZ, etc. Actually I'm surprised that there aren't more full members from the old British colonies in Africa. Since the USA is listed as an affiliate member, which I assume is the second rank, I can't pay too much attention to the other colors. I know there are small numbers of cricketclubs scattered through the world, but there really is a reason that cricket is not an Olympic sport. I accept the fact that cricket is important to you and to a lot of folks scattered throughout the world, just not outside of the old British empire. And as Ihave said before, we have at least three cricket pitches in town that I know of and a functioning league made up mostly of British and South Asian ex-pats.

I don't argue that the premier league is the most watched league due to the penetration of Sky TV in the third world. I think we are getting way to emoptional about all this. These are just games.

I'm not sure about the rugby, but the soccer matches at the Home Depot Center are pretty well sold out as I understand it and with Beckham coming here the attendance will probably go up.


----------



## Overground

Guys, listen, the London thread was locked because certain people decided to create a city v city thread, or London v LA thread...on "A" LONDON thread....ya...go figure eh? This was at no fault of Londoners or their ilk.

Now this thread has turned into the same thing and here's why. These comments below were unprovoked as well if you read through each page.

Page 1



svs said:


> Yes, forgive the typos, I was tired when I posted. Just pointing out another international event for the Brits who refuse to believe anything of importance exists more than ten miles from the Thames.


Continued city v city hostility and created by the thread starter no doubt. Kind of defeats the purpose if the thread's going to be closed. svs I expected a bit better from you.

Page 2

jimjones unilaterally, for no reason, started it here, page 2 post #36


jimjones said:


> Los Angeles will be host to the world figure skating championships in 2009.
> 
> This certain puts LA in THE sports capital of the world class.
> Hey why not the last time London England hosted this event was 1950 and that was certainly not in an arena above 12,000 capacity.


This is obviously city v city and it really started with this very post.

here, page 2 post #40


jimjones said:


> Yes the joke went over you head and if you are a guy I am not your MATE LOL. I dont MATE with guys sorry dude.
> 
> Figure skating I really classify with cricket as a sport LOL. Actually I am sorry that is not fair to figure skating LOL.
> 
> The sports capital of the world started with some london boosters and for all intense purposes they are wrong from the standard that makes the grade
> MONEY earned at the box office thru private means.


An escalation of hostility and continued prohibited city v city banter.

On page 2 alone jimjones mentioned London 14 times and remember this is where the city v city crap got started again. It's quite obvious this is the reason for all the bullshit. Myself and others have contributed to this thread in a positive way but it's ironic that jimjones and his defensive posts wants to destroy a thread that he should so vehemently support. Again, it just defeats the purpose.


----------



## Overground

CharlieP said:


> Here's the plan as well:


Thanks! I wonder if they added seating up to the touchline from the outfield wall it would be better, I just don't like that big gap. I would still go for a normal rugby seating set-up and HD would still be my choice for the tourney.


----------



## svs

Overground said:


> Guys, listen, the London thread was locked because certain people decided to create a city v city thread, or London v LA thread...on "A" LONDON thread....ya...go figure eh? This was at no fault of Londoners or their ilk.
> 
> Now this thread has turned into the same thing and here's why. These comments below were unprovoked as well if you read through each page.
> 
> Page 1
> 
> 
> 
> Continued city v city hostility and created by the thread starter no doubt. Kind of defeats the purpose if the thread's going to be closed. svs I expected a bit better from you.


Let me repeat again, I started this thread because of comments disparaging LA on that London thread that was locked. I do not approve of "city vs. city" spam wars and have tried to explain over again why they cannot be won. 

Some of my comments may have been misinterpreted, but for the record I like London a lot, I have visited there many times, I have family there, my sister has given concerts in London which I have attended. I respect London as a sports town and have never said anything negative about the city or its facilities. If I have no personal interest in cricket, it is probably my loss, as it is yours if you have no interest in NFL football. I am not emotional about this but some of my respondents seem to get overly upset over what should just be fun. If any of my attempts to be humerous have offended anyone I apologize.

I invite anyone to come visit S. Cal. I hope you enjoy it as much as I have enjoyed England and Scotland. Now can we be friends, hands across the sea and all that sort of bosh?


----------



## Sitback

jimjones said:


> If a world cup was held in the new Wembley the stadium would not match one single games attendance that the rose bowl had during 1994.
> The New Wembley will not break the single game attendance record set in los angeles' rose bowl for two record soccer games. the record for the largest attendance for a soccer game during an olympics or a fifa womens world cup game.


What has that got to do with anything? So what? The Rose Bowl has a bigger capacity then the New Wembley. That doesn't prove anything. And soccer is much bigger then Basketball internationally please don't dispute that anyone it's silly.


----------



## Sitback

And as for LA. A great sports city but the fundemental flaw to calling it 'World Sporting Capital' is the fact that it's soccer is almost non-exsistant and considering that soccer is the world's most played and watched sport by far. Then how on earth can LA compete when it lacks that monopoly on the world's biggest sport and if anything is right down on the list of great soccer cities. It's a major handicap. No matter how great LA is for NFL, baseball and basketball.


----------



## nyrmetros

Mr. Fusion said:


> http://www.risf.org/projects_track2.html
> 
> :grouphug:


seems like a good place for a soccer game..... maybe Metro/rbny can play an US Open Cup game there.....


----------



## svs

Sitback said:


> And as for LA. A great sports city but the fundemental flaw to calling it 'World Sporting Capital' is the fact that it's soccer is almost non-exsistant and considering that soccer is the world's most played and watched sport by far. Then how on earth can LA compete when it lacks that monopoly on the world's biggest sport and if anything is right down on the list of great soccer cities. It's a major handicap. No matter how great LA is for NFL, baseball and basketball.


A much bigger lack is the lack of an NFL football team. Actually we have two professional soccer teams playing in a 25,000 seat relatively new stadium, the Galaxy, one of the best American soccer teams and the Chivas which is associated with one of the most successful Mexican League teams. Most games are pretty close to sold out, and there are a lot of fans, especially from south of the border. And you couldn't have missed the fact that Beckham is coming here, even if he is past his prime. And we did host the world cup here in 1994. I believe the last time England hosted was in 1966. I also believe we still hold the record for most fans to attend a soccer football game which was set at the 94 world cup at the Rose bowl......So no, I don't think we are all that handicapped by lack of "football".

The second biggest newspaper La Opinion devotes more than half its sports pages to soccer although it doesn't pay much attention to the Premier league.
We do get televised Mexican League and South American games which my Spanish speaking friends tells me is a lot better anyway. I am no afficienado, so I can't really tell myself. I am familiar enough to be able to recognize Andreas Cantor and his cries of ........."GOOOOOOOOOAL!!!!!

And for the fortieth time, I never referred to LA as "the world's sports capital", but as "a world's sports capital". Please don't make this a contest that no one can win.


----------



## 612Buddha

jimjones said:


> OMG who would know the Bass player of Led
> Zeppelin would have an arena named after him in north carolina
> 
> Jim jones




u related?


----------



## Sitback

svs said:


> A much bigger lack is the lack of an NFL football team. Actually we have two professional soccer teams playing in a 25,000 seat relatively new stadium, the Galaxy, one of the best American soccer teams and the Chivas which is associated with one of the most successful Mexican League teams. Most games are pretty close to sold out, and there are a lot of fans, especially from south of the border. And you couldn't have missed the fact that Beckham is coming here, even if he is past his prime. And we did host the world cup here in 1994. I believe the last time England hosted was in 1966. I also believe we still hold the record for most fans to attend a soccer football game which was set at the 94 world cup at the Rose bowl......So no, I don't think we are all that handicapped by lack of "football".
> 
> The second biggest newspaper La Opinion devotes more than half its sports pages to soccer although it doesn't pay much attention to the Premier league.
> We do get televised Mexican League and South American games which my Spanish speaking friends tells me is a lot better anyway. I am no afficienado, so I can't really tell myself. I am familiar enough to be able to recognize Andreas Cantor and his cries of ........."GOOOOOOOOOAL!!!!!
> 
> And for the fortieth time, I never referred to LA as "the world's sports capital", but as "a world's sports capital". Please don't make this a contest that no one can win.


scraping.the.barrel. Those footballing facts are small fry really. LA Galaxy regardless of the Beckham factor on an international scale is a small time club and altho Mexico has produced some great players they still are left in the wake of their European and South American counterparts. Tell me, do you go to Japan, Africa, China, India, Australia or where you may be and see loads of people wearing Chivas football shirts. No you'll mostly see Man United, Real Madrid, AC Milan, Arsenal, Barcelona etc...

No Rose Bowl doesn't hold the record. It may hold the record for an all seated capacity but back in the days when stadiums had no seats the Old Wembley in a FA Cup final in 1923 had nearly 250,000 in the stadium. The official biggest attendance for a world cup match was the 1950 World Cup final. Brazil vs Uruguay at the Maracana Stadium. 199,854 people.

No matter what country the World Cup goes to it will always have people flying from all over the world to watch their teams matches. It just so happens that the Rose Bowl is the biggest all seater capacity stadium for a World Cup match to be held in so far. Say if Austalia one day holds the World Cup and a match is held in Melbourne at the 100,000+ seater MCG then I'm sure the record will be taken. Or with any stadium with a larger capacity that holds a world cup game between two big teams anywhere in the world. So on that point you made yet again it means nothing.

Also. Of course in a city so Hispanic like LA you're gonna get more attention payed to Spanish, South American and Mexican leagues. It's a no brainer. So what does that prove? It doesn't prove that Hispanic leagues are better if a Spanish man says it's better then the Premier League. I personally don't think it's better. It's slower paced and you don't get superstar players like C.Ronaldo, Shevchenko, Henry, Gerrard, Ballack, Tevez, Van Persie playing in South America or Mexico do you? When one of their home grown players become great they end up going to either Spain, Italy or England. But in terms of the quality of the football and players that Spain's La Liga and England's Premierleague has... There isn't much inbetween them. Last season there was an English and Spanish team in the final of the Champions League. The year before an English team won the Champions League. And this year all English teams finished top of their Champions League groups above their Spanish rivals... So how on earth it can be better I dunno. In New York you get more people watching the Premierleague then Spanish leagues. So really it is a matter of geographic location.

So all in all yes LA does lack in Football (Soccer). Sorry.


----------



## Scba

LA could be the Soccer capital of the US right now, you can't try that excuse. You can't say that just because we don't have a giant soccer field that LA isn't a worthy capital candidate; how many different sports does London support? Baseball, American Football, Oval Racing, Hockey, and Basketball are all international sports. None of them may be THE international sport, but we're still talking about massive followings outside of the Americas. 

Home Depot Center is a legit field, if you want to go back to that old debate. Los Angeles has done a fantastic job if incorporating virtually every sport into a field somewhere around the city. London simply stands by its stubborn guns.


----------



## jimjones

Scba said:


> LA could be the Soccer capital of the US right now, you can't try that excuse. You can't say that just because we don't have a giant soccer field that LA isn't a worthy capital candidate; how many different sports does London support? Baseball, American Football, Oval Racing, Hockey, and Basketball are all international sports. None of them may be THE international sport, but we're still talking about massive followings outside of the Americas.
> 
> Home Depot Center is a legit field, if you want to go back to that old debate. Los Angeles has done a fantastic job if incorporating virtually every sport into a field somewhere around the city. London simply stands by its stubborn guns.


You see this is not a london vs los angeles debate in my mind at all. 
You have too much of a clash of cultural values for that. Lets just say the variety is more strongly supported in LA and London has its narrow choice of what it supports and Soccer being a world sport is supported very well even with west ham struggling financially as it is said in the british media. What london does support it supports very well but those are really british empire sports with the exception of soccer which is a world wide sport. 

I was going over the records of Wimbledon champions and The US , Australia and mainland Europe have dominated the game over the home field great british players of the last 50 years plus. 
The last time a british woman was in the finals was when Virginia Wade won in 1977. The last time a british man was in the finals was 1938 with Buddy Austin. The last time a british man won was 1936 with Fred Perry winning over a NAZI tennis player by the name of Gottfried von Cramm. 
American Pete Sampras shares the most mens singles titles with Britian William Renshaw. 
The LA area has produced four mutli-wimbledon winners on the womens side
Venus Williams , Serena Williams , Lindsay Davenport and Billy Jean King in the last forty years. The williams sisters and davenport being very recent. 
The William sisters are from compton, Lindsay Davenport is from Palos Verdes
California and Billy Jean king is from Long Beach. 

To me of the four grand slam sites Americans, Mainland Europeans and Australians seem to have dominated the game as of late. 
You could probably put Pete Sampras' name on Flushing Meadows stadium with out much despute although Arthur Ash I am sure would be there because of memorial tribute for his play on the court, civil rights and his hard battle against HIV Aids. 
You can have Rod Laver on centre court of the Australian open but really there is not real recent local hero in tennis for the French Open or Wimbledon to have a court named after. 

The thing is Wimbledon is Wimbledon with or without the British being a force in that sport. Even if William Renshaw was in the era of a Pete Sampras at Wimbledon beating Pete Sampras I still dont see it being good for a court to be named after in in Wimbledon's case because Wimbledon is such a cut above the rest for stature. Now saying that LA girls have done very well their and that is partly a product of a good sports legacy in south california surrounding the 1984 Olympics. A great all year climate in LA also helps bigtime. 


jim jones


----------



## svs

Sitback said:


> scraping.the.barrel. Those footballing facts are small fry really. LA Galaxy regardless of the Beckham factor on an international scale is a small time club and altho Mexico has produced some great players they still are left in the wake of their European and South American counterparts. Tell me, do you go to Japan, Africa, China, India, Australia or where you may be and see loads of people wearing Chivas football shirts. No you'll mostly see Man United, Real Madrid, AC Milan, Arsenal, Barcelona etc...
> 
> No Rose Bowl doesn't hold the record. It may hold the record for an all seated capacity but back in the days when stadiums had no seats the Old Wembley in a FA Cup final in 1923 had nearly 250,000 in the stadium. The official biggest attendance for a world cup match was the 1950 World Cup final. Brazil vs Uruguay at the Maracana Stadium. 199,854 people.
> 
> No matter what country the World Cup goes to it will always have people flying from all over the world to watch their teams matches. It just so happens that the Rose Bowl is the biggest all seater capacity stadium for a World Cup match to be held in so far. Say if Austalia one day holds the World Cup and a match is held in Melbourne at the 100,000+ seater MCG then I'm sure the record will be taken. Or with any stadium with a larger capacity that holds a world cup game between two big teams anywhere in the world. So on that point you made yet again it means nothing.
> 
> Also. Of course in a city so Hispanic like LA you're gonna get more attention payed to Spanish, South American and Mexican leagues. It's a no brainer. So what does that prove? It doesn't prove that Hispanic leagues are better if a Spanish man says it's better then the Premier League. I personally don't think it's better. It's slower paced and you don't get superstar players like C.Ronaldo, Shevchenko, Henry, Gerrard, Ballack, Tevez, Van Persie playing in South America or Mexico do you? When one of their home grown players become great they end up going to either Spain, Italy or England. But in terms of the quality of the football and players that Spain's La Liga and England's Premierleague has... There isn't much inbetween them. Last season there was an English and Spanish team in the final of the Champions League. The year before an English team won the Champions League. And this year all English teams finished top of their Champions League groups above their Spanish rivals... So how on earth it can be better I dunno. In New York you get more people watching the Premierleague then Spanish leagues. So really it is a matter of geographic location.
> 
> So all in all yes LA does lack in Football (Soccer). Sorry.


Have it your way if it makes you happy. I refuse to get into a city vs. city feud. I cannot understand why anyone living in London would be so insecure about his obviously important city. I never tried to proove LA is a major soccer center, just that the sport is well represented and growing.


----------



## jimjones

Thing is SV well really have to remember that we are the uncultured colonies over here and we can be very thankful that the european tradition sports of joisting on horseback or duels with pistols or swords didnt take off here. Do they have joisting in London anymore ???

aside from a stupid debate 

look at any city in the world you want in regards to the issue and ask 

A. how successful are the teams for attendance
B.how successful are the teams for championships
c. how much local ownership is involved with the teams
d. how much public funding is needed for the venues
e. if sports the primary function of the venues
f. what is the life cycle of venues in a city for financial viability
g. does a city go beyond the core native sports to support foreign sports
h. How successful is a city with regards to hosting international events from the standpoint of a balance sheet
j. What type of athletic legacy does a city have from hosting an international event
k. What type of track record does a city have in regards to producing high performance athletes. 

The City that has those things at the highest levels could probably be called the sports capital of the world. Objectively taking a view at those ten points
would make it very apparent even with cultural differences or tastes. 

jim jones


----------



## dunwyn

Just to add a small addendum to this topic.

Melbourne is the "Ultimate sports city".

http://www.arksports.com/index.php?pageId=0066

I also do like LA!


----------



## Reddog794

wow.... talk about having to have your sports egos stroked. This thread is nothing but a pissing contest, and not a very good one. Each side of this... banter, is picking they're own axe to grind.

I digress, LA hell-of-a-city to watch any sport in because it's always nice (well except now, they're getting a bit of the Canadian chill), and the fans get into it pretty much all the time. Hockey, of all things is popular down there. I'm not going to talk about London, not because I don't like it, quite the opposite, but this is an LA thread, and it makes it look silly when you talk about something that has nothing to do with the thread title.

What's the word on a roof over the coliseum? It's a beautiful facility, but the lack of a roof is pretty much its biggest detrator. As well a very upgrades such as exec boxes, and a proper news box would really give it an edge in general for a possible NFL team. I've heard that LA might also be host to a second NHL team, which would be blasphemous, but hey, it worked in NY, and Bettman is only trying to make money it seems. For a growing soccer-football power, it's doing well, due to the fact that the Home-Depot stadium can be expanded upon, and if enough people show up, who knows maybe the Galaxy would play in the coliseum? More and more poeple are watching it, and Americans have a tendancy to take a good idea and run with it. I like the Aniheim Convention Centre, it looks f*ckin cool, but is it used much?


----------



## nyrmetros

TalB said:


> That was completed a while ago.


I want to see a MLS game played here !


----------



## nyrmetros




----------



## nyrmetros




----------



## Canadian Chocho

Crafty mormons.


----------



## Bigmac1212

Looks similiar to what the Chicago Fire built.


----------



## Benn

It's definately got more going on than toyota park, with facade work wrapping around 3 sides not just the 1. I like the white brick and/or stone look better as well, pretty classy. The pedestrian areas around the stadium in the renderings are a nice touch as well.


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## nomarandlee

Looks real nice. Should be one of the nicest in MLS when its done. I like that they plan to put it in a hood as opposed to parking lots as well.


----------



## nyrmetros

All MLS stadiums will fundamentally look alike for a variety of reasons......


----------



## skaP187

at least it is all around the pitch and not with an open end, ugly roof though... but to be hounest nice stadiuim all in all.


----------



## Inkdaub

I like it.


----------



## Lostboy

Has MLS really advanced in terms of attendance that it can guarantee crowds for a 20,000 stadium


----------



## Neda Say

This one looks really good! I really like the wavy roof. When do they start building it?


----------



## Scba

Lostboy said:


> Has MLS really advanced in terms of attendance that it can guarantee crowds for a 20,000 stadium


I'm not so sure that Salt Lake can after a few years, but in most other cities with franchises, yes.


----------



## nyrmetros

Even if the team averages 18 k and the stadium holds 20 k.........


----------



## Elsongs

Looks much better than the fake Salt Lake MLS stadium!


----------



## Elsongs

Lostboy said:


> Has MLS really advanced in terms of attendance that it can guarantee crowds for a 20,000 stadium


People in SLC wanna see Beckham too.


----------



## hngcm

what's the capacity


----------



## nyrmetros

about 20 k or so...


----------



## Mr. Fusion

nyrmetros said:


> that was a rushed what if 2012 IOC rendering....... nothing more than that.


Actually it appears to be the current model, and on second thought its a very unique design, I like it!


----------



## Mr. Fusion

*Barclays Center*









Barclays Center

*Facts & Figures:*
*Completion -* Planned Fall 2009
*Location -* Atlantic & Flatbush Avenues, Brooklyn
*Capacity -* 18,000 Basketball, 20,500 [Maximum With Floor Seating]
*Cost -* Unknown / Entire Atlantic Yards Project $3,500,000,000

*Background:* "As the centerpiece of over 8 million square feet of development and open space, the Barclays Center ushers in not only a triumphant return for sports in Brooklyn. It signals a renaissance for Brooklyn. With 14 enhanced entrances, a top-fed upper concourse and 18,000 seats for basketball, the Barclays Center will provide an incomparibly intimate seating experience. Visitors will have the option of taking 10 subway lines and the LIRR, just 8 minutes from Wall Street, 18 minutes from Penn Station and 20 minutes from Times Square or Grand Central Station."

England-based Barclays Bank has paid in excess of $300 million for 20-year naming rights to the venue.

_Source: Barclays Center Official Website - NEW!_

:hug:


----------



## Mr. Fusion

*Update - Nassau Coliseum Redevelopment*

*Hub plan headed to Hempstead*

_By Doug Miller_

The Nassau Legislature voted 16-2 on Monday to give Lighthouse Development Group its blessing to begin the process of negotiating with the Town of Hempstead over the future development of the 77-acre Nassau Hub site.

But the approval came with a terse admonition from legislators on both sides of the aisle, who warned that many of the existing conditions of the memorandum of understanding between County Executive Thomas Suozzi and Lighthouse were unacceptable, and that not enough had yet been done to alleviate the concerns of the surrounding communities...

*Source: Here!*

:hug:


----------



## Mr. Fusion

*Update - MSG V*

*Garden redo scores point*

_Paul D. Colford_

The state is warming up to a new Madison Square Garden.

Development officials agreed yesterday to study the environmental impact of building a new Garden on Ninth Ave. - a sign that the ambitious project is gaining traction.

Vornado Realty Trust and The Related Cos., the developers that are turning the landmark Farley Post Office on 33rd St. and Eighth Ave. into an extension of Penn Station, haven't yet submitted plans for the entire project, which would also include a new Penn Station, office towers and a new arena.

But they're expected to this spring - and the $500,000 study ordered up by the Empire State Development Corporation would be a necessary first step in building a new Garden...

*Source: Here!*

:hug:


----------



## nyrmetros

Mr. Fusion said:


> *Garden redo scores point*
> 
> _Paul D. Colford_
> 
> The state is warming up to a new Madison Square Garden.
> 
> Development officials agreed yesterday to study the environmental impact of building a new Garden on Ninth Ave. - a sign that the ambitious project is gaining traction.
> 
> Vornado Realty Trust and The Related Cos., the developers that are turning the landmark Farley Post Office on 33rd St. and Eighth Ave. into an extension of Penn Station, haven't yet submitted plans for the entire project, which would also include a new Penn Station, office towers and a new arena.
> 
> But they're expected to this spring - and the $500,000 study ordered up by the Empire State Development Corporation would be a necessary first step in building a new Garden...
> 
> *Source: Here!*
> 
> :hug:



Damn it. We don't need a new MSG. Just fix the bathrooms and she's set. yes we do need a new train station in the old post office building!


----------



## TalB

Part of the General Post Office (Farely Bldg) was already built over to have the expansion of Penn Station, and say keep the rest of it by not building another MSG over it.


----------



## nyrmetros

TalB said:


> Part of the General Post Office (Farely Bldg) was already built over to have the expansion of Penn Station, and say keep the rest of it by not building another MSG over it.


correct. The Post Office was built by the people who build the original Penn Station. It's a perfect place for the new train station, but not a new arena.


----------



## Mr. Fusion

I take a few minutes out of my day to update a thread, seemingly for two people who do not want any of it built.

Ahh, the irony... :lol:

:hug:


----------



## nyrmetros

Mr. Fusion said:


> I take a few minutes out of my day to update a thread, seemingly for two people who do not want any of it built.
> 
> Ahh, the irony... :lol:
> 
> :hug:


It's important that we discuss this. I may not want it built, but I want to be kept updated of what is happening.


----------



## TalB

Mr. Fusion said:


> I take a few minutes out of my day to update a thread, seemingly for two people who do not want any of it built.
> 
> Ahh, the irony... :lol:
> 
> :hug:


Mr. Fusion, I am not telling you what to like or hate about these new sports facilities, I am just stating my opinion on them. If you don't like it, then that's your problem, not mine. I feel that the reason that NYC and any other city does not need a new stadium is b/c ticket prices are already as high as it is right now, and a new stadium will only make them higher. Also, I feel that teams do not need a new stadium or arena to compete and it's teams that win championships, not having a new place. As I met with Neil deMause, the authour of Field of Schemes, last summer, he mentioned on how sports owners or getting subsidized bonds at the expense of us taxpayers. I feel that if a new stadium should be built, it should be owners paying for it, not us.


----------



## Mr. Fusion

TalB said:


> Mr. Fusion, I am not telling you what to like or hate about these new sports facilities, I am just stating my opinion on them. If you don't like it, then that's your problem, not mine.


Not sure where that came from. I stated a fact and noted the irony, nothing more.



TalB said:


> I feel that the reason that NYC and any other city does not need a new stadium is b/c ticket prices are already as high as it is right now, and a new stadium will only make them higher. Also, I feel that teams do not need a new stadium or arena to compete and it's teams that win championships, not having a new place. As I met with Neil deMause, the authour of Field of Schemes, last summer, he mentioned on how sports owners or getting subsidized bonds at the expense of us taxpayers. I feel that if a new stadium should be built, it should be owners paying for it, not us.


I completely agree. Professional sports are a multi-billion dollar industry which can afford to build these monuments to themselves. :yes:

That said, the reality is team owners can manipulate their way into receiving taxdollars, so naturally they take advantage of this. There is also little we can do about it, as there is nothing stopping owners from taking their team [and their economic benefit] elsewhere. :sly:

:hug:


----------



## nyrmetros

The NY owners can not lie and say they need new buildings in order to compete for championships.....


----------



## TalB

Mr. Fusion said:


> I completely agree. Professional sports are a multi-billion dollar industry which can afford to build these monuments to themselves. :yes:
> 
> That said, the reality is team owners can manipulate their way into receiving taxdollars, so naturally they take advantage of this. There is also little we can do about it, as there is nothing stopping owners from taking their team [and their economic benefit] elsewhere. :sly:
> 
> :hug:


I didn't think you were going to agree with that, b/c from your previous posts in this thread, you seemed to be against me.


----------



## Mr. Fusion

TalB said:


> I didn't think you were going to agree with that, b/c from your previous posts in this thread, you seemed to be against me.


I understand your pain with losing these older facilities. I had a chance to visit Lambeau Field both before and after the renovation that took place between 2001 and 2003. I remember standing at the edge of the south parking lot back in 1999... Imagine a bleak, gray overcast sky, with half a mile of endless worn-out blacktop in front of you, raising up towards a stadium built of concrete, corrugated sheet metal and glass. Right then, I realized why Lambeau was such an intimidating place to play. When I visited in 2003, the seating bowl was there [which is good], but the rest of the stadium has been turned into a five-star hotel. In my opinion it has lost a lot of the homefield advantage they once held. :no:

Where you have been sympathetic to these older stadia and arenas in this thread [and rightfully so], I have taken more of a realist approach. If it sounded like I was against you, apologies. But I am not, and I wholly understand your thoughts. If I sound excited to watch these old facilities be replaced, it is only because I do not have the connection you have with them.

:hug:


----------



## nyrmetros

My grandmother went to Yankee Stadium to watch Ruth and Gherigg play. My mother went to watch Yogi, ******, and Mickey play. I went to the stadium to watch Mattingly play, and now I just go to see the Yankees play. That's 3 generations of 1 family at the stadium.

It's easier to accept that a new stadium is need for the betterment of the team, but obviously that is not the case here.

My grandfather and mother used to go to Rangers games at MSG III. My grandfather never made it to MSG IV.


----------



## nyrmetros

Don't know if this was posted before, too lazy too look in the thread....

The proposed rennovations for MSG before they thought about building new....

http://www.ellerbebecket.com/portfolio_template_226.html


----------



## Chairman

nyrmetros said:


> My grandmother went to Yankee Stadium to watch Ruth and Gherigg play. My mother went to watch Yogi, ******, and Mickey play. I went to the stadium to watch Mattingly play, and now I just go to see the Yankees play. That's 3 generations of 1 family at the stadium.


Yeah usually when time advances, more people get born.


----------



## rantanamo

you simply can't compare the original Yankee Stadium to what it is now. Same location, but vastly different building thanks to renovation after renovation.


----------



## nyrmetros

rantanamo said:


> you simply can't compare the original Yankee Stadium to what it is now. Same location, but vastly different building thanks to renovation after renovation.


granted. but it's still the same location. all the place needed was a $200 mil rennovation..... nothing more than that.


----------



## TalB

It is a shame to loose a great stadium like Shea Stadium, and I don't care how ugly it was said to be.


----------



## nyrmetros

it's ugly, but it gets the job done.... it's NYC....


----------



## Mr. Fusion

It would be nice if the Jets moved back to Flushing, to have a "New York" named team play within the states boundaries again. :hug:


----------



## Mr. Fusion

TalB said:


> Keep in mind that the project is still proposed and Ratner could loose it all in court or if the NBA Board of Governors do not approove the relocation.


But I thought the Atlantic Yards project has been approved in its entirety, including Barclays Center. See article in post #106.

When was the last time any professional sports franchise was successfully blocked from moving? Granted its possible but not likely.

:hug:


----------



## nyrmetros

Mr. Fusion said:


> But I thought the Atlantic Yards project has been approved in its entirety, including Barclays Center. See article in post #106.
> 
> When was the last time any professional sports franchise was successfully blocked from moving? Granted its possible but not likely.
> 
> :hug:


It appears the NHL blocked the moving of the Pittsburgh Penguins..... thus the first attempted sale fell through....


----------



## nyrmetros

gerryflood said:


> having live in both nyc and boston, both cities are great. You need to get out of the boroughs man...you obviously haven't been to boston.


Been to Boston 12 times. I didn't say I don't have a fun time when I'm there.... but it's my olbigation to rag on this inferior city with inferior people.... That city hasn't done a damn thing for this country since the American Revolution..... I thank you for your services then...... and then you a$$hats go and destroy the Boston Garden..... and then you go and destroy the elevated Green line.... at least ya'll kept Fenway..... the last relics of an American Institution that your city has to offer....


----------



## irving1903

Longhorn Al said:


> No Ameriquest (Ballpark in Arlington) love?




i think the name now is RANGER STADIUM @ THE BALLPARK in ARLINGTON

something like that i heard the news say it.... but i'll still call it the ballpark


----------



## gerryflood

LOL...no problem man. You continue to vent....get it off your chest. (Didn't know anyone, let alone a New Yorker, cared much about the elevated section of the Green Line). Email me next time you come to town, this "inferior" Bostonian will buy you a pint.


----------



## nyrmetros

gerryflood said:


> LOL...no problem man. You continue to vent....get it off your chest. (Didn't know anyone, let alone a New Yorker, cared much about the elevated section of the Green Line). Email me next time you come to town, this "inferior" Bostonian will buy you a pint.


Appreciate the offer. Was supposed to make there this Sat for the Rangers game actually, but couldn't get out of work.


----------



## palindrome

nyrmetros said:


> Been to Boston 12 times. I didn't say I don't have a fun time when I'm there.... but it's my olbigation to rag on this inferior city with inferior people.... That city hasn't done a damn thing for this country since the American Revolution..... I thank you for your services then...... and then you a$$hats go and destroy the Boston Garden..... and then you go and destroy the elevated Green line.... at least ya'll kept Fenway..... the last relics of an American Institution that your city has to offer....


:banana: :banana: ^^ :nuts:


----------



## Rockmont

Slamming Payton Manning












Sorry dude. No longer valid.


----------



## gerryflood

talk to me when he gets two more...'till then, he's a one-hit wonder.


----------



## gerryflood

nyrmetros said:


> Appreciate the offer. Was supposed to make there this Sat for the Rangers game actually, but couldn't get out of work.



B's aren't doing too well...what's new. Rangers will get into the playoff though...been to several Rangers games at the Garden.


----------



## TalB

Mr. Fusion, an owner cannot arbitrairly move a team, it has to be approoved by the NBA Board of Governors. The same thing happened when the Grizzlies left Vancouver for Memphis as well as the Hornets leaving from Charlotte to New Orleans. If a number of them vote against the move, it will thrawrt the Nets going to Brooklyn. The approoval by the city and state prior to this does not affect their decision.


----------



## Mr. Fusion

Correct. Even if the NBA did not approve the franchise move, I do not see that preventing the Nets moving to Brooklyn. In 1995 the Los Angeles Rams moved to St. Louis without the approval of the NFL. The Rams were taken to court but they ultimately won as they are not in LA.

On what grounds, other than "we do not want you to leave the state because your heritage is rooted in New Jersey" would the NBA attempt to block it? I think they will recognize the investment in Barclays Center as a positive business move for the league.

:hug:


----------



## Canadian Chocho

Coors Field is pretty decent.










But one of my favourites is Miller Park.


----------



## kinggeorge

rogers centre, heart of the city, unique stadium, when full its amazing,....go jays go


----------



## Rockmont

gerryflood said:


> Fenway--Best baseball stadium in America
> 
> Fenway--left side of photo...look for red grandstand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the most spectacular shots of Boston ever.


----------



## edsg25

the best of the old: Wrigley

the best of the new: AT&T


----------



## nyrmetros

gerryflood said:


> B's aren't doing too well...what's new. Rangers will get into the playoff though...been to several Rangers games at the Garden.


I support the Original 6. But F Boston! Ahh the Rangers.... how I love them.


----------



## nyrmetros

Mr. Fusion said:


> Correct. Even if the NBA did not approve the franchise move, I do not see that preventing the Nets moving to Brooklyn. In 1995 the Los Angeles Rams moved to St. Louis without the approval of the NFL. The Rams were taken to court but they ultimately won as they are not in LA.
> 
> On what grounds, other than "we do not want you to leave the state because your heritage is rooted in New Jersey" would the NBA attempt to block it? I think they will recognize the investment in Barclays Center as a positive business move for the league.
> 
> :hug:


The Nets heritage is actually on Long Island, where Brooklyn is located. mute point though.


----------



## gerryflood

Man..just when I thought you were coming around...now you go acting like a true new yanker....sorry new yorker.


----------



## nyrmetros

gerryflood said:


> Man..just when I thought you were coming around...now you go acting like a true new yanker....sorry new yorker.


haha yes.


----------



## GNU

Reliant has my fav interior together with the Estadio da Luz in Lisbon:


----------



## nyrmetros

gerryflood said:


> Great pics...thanks for posting them. I like Reliant Field the best...fans seem to hang over the field.



The Houston Dynamo should just move in here and drive the local nfl team out into the sea.


----------



## TexasBoi

nyrmetros said:


> The Houston Dynamo should just move in here and drive the local nfl team out into the sea.



yeah but see they actually want to fill the stadium....but at least the Dynamo has competant managament. what do i care....I'm a Cowboy fan. Our stadium will be the best once it's finished in 2009.


----------



## moochie

TexasBoi said:


> yeah but see they actually want to fill the stadium....but at least the Dynamo has competant managament. what do i care....I'm a Cowboy fan. Our stadium will be the best once it's finished in 2009.


You may just be right about that. It's certainly an impressive monster of a stadium. In fact, if I were a betting man, I'd bet that Dallas will host the superbowl in 2011 in large part because of it. I'd guess that Indy will host in 2012 or 2013.

I'm slightly prejudiced... <cough> but my favorite NFL stadium is Lucas Oil Stadium... or "The Luke" here in Indy. It's about 300' tall (about 100 meters) 70,000 seats, retractable roof, retractable windows. Here are a few more renders, a live updating construction webcam shot and some links:

SSC thread:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=445872

Early video flythrough:
http://www.in.gov/iscba/media/flythrough.html

Official site with tons of construction pics and renders:
http://www.in.gov/iscba/


----------



## EADGBE

Wow, impressed with the 'Luke'! It should really have its own thread here. The website is pretty helpful, and the construction is further on than I'd imagined.

Just one thing: The 'Night Crowd' render obviously shied away from using 70k+ people, probably because it would have killed the CAD software. Instead, they achieve a similar effect, with (if you look closely) what appears to be vast quantities of what can only be described as 'gritty foam'. Effective!


----------



## cinosanap

'The Luke' looks like an old power station (Battersea in London etc).


----------



## moochie

cinosanap said:


> 'The Luke' looks like an old power station (Battersea in London etc).



I'ts built in the old Hoosier Fieldhouse style that originated in Indiana more than a hundred years ago. Here are a few good examples from Indianapolis alone. Similar structures are all over the region:

Indiana State Fairgrounds Coliseum 









Butler University, Hinkle Fieldhouse, the most famous. Countless movie and tv scenes have been filmed in it and around it.









Conseco Fieldhouse, home of the Pacers, just a few blocks from The Luke. About 5 years old, a bit of a modernist version of the Hoosier design. Considered by most to be the best basketball arena in the world.









And now... The Luke


----------



## www.sercan.de

still do not understand why the capacity of the reliant stadium is only 70.000
Looks so much bigger to me


----------



## dallasburg

*Stadiums of Dallas*

Some pics of stadiums in the Dallas-Ft.Worth Area.

Sorry, thread under construction.


----------



## skaP187

no pics to be seen... Fix it!!!!


----------



## dallasburg

skaP187 said:


> no pics to be seen... Fix it!!!!


i dont know whats wrong with it.


----------



## vahebaronian

As everyone hates on Los Angeles. They still will become the American representative for the 2016 Olympics


----------



## vahebaronian

Looks like a UFO landed in Soldier field


----------



## Jim Jones WINS!!!!!!

vahebaronian said:


> As everyone hates on Los Angeles. They still will become the American representative for the 2016 Olympics


Yes there is the potential there that Los Angeles again will rescue the Olympic movement after London has totally trashed it with spending that is out of control . The effect of London and Great Britian's idiotic economic behavior may have a new governor of the Tokyo Prefeiture withdraw the 2016 bid for that mega city and you have both Denmark and Hungary having turned thumbs down on future bids. 

It will be LA, Chicago or Rio for a rationization of the games. Rio may get the nod 
to be the first city in South America to host the games as they are finishing venues of an olympic standard for the Pan Am games. 

Jim jones wins !!!!!!!!!


----------



## dallasburg

the rose bowl in pasadena. u gotta love it.:banana:


----------



## dallasburg

thread still u/c.


----------



## moochie

Brent H. said:


> The new stadiums in Dallas and Indianapolis will just raise the bar.


Agree with this. Both are done by HKS I'm pretty sure. I don't have a lot of info on Dallas, perhaps someone else can chime in, but it sure is an impressive beast.

As for "The Luke" in Indy, 70,000 seats, retractable roof and windows, here are a few pics and a live refreshing webcam pic of construction, and the official site which has plenty of pics and info.

SSC thread:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=445872

Early video flythrough:
http://www.in.gov/iscba/media/flythrough.html

Official site with tons of construction pics and renders:
http://www.in.gov/iscba/


----------



## dallasburg

the new cowboys stadium will kill! :banana:


----------



## Schmeek

Yeah, no chance of a merge. Thank god. Football success comes and goes in cycles. I bet there are a lot of people in the world who would never believe Man Utd were in the second div. in the eighties....
....City were in the top flight in the late seventies(if only briefly)and their time will come again, as will Rovers'. In fact I think it WILL happen quite soon, especially if city hang on to that promotion spot!

Appparently the chairman is a very rich man and is waiting to climb out (finally) of that b*stard of a lge 1 before he starts piling the money in. 
And as far as the stadium is concerned I think they need to tear down the williams (main) stand along with the wedlock and build a whole new two-tiered 'L' shape which carries round the corner. This could give Ashton Gate a potential capacity of around 35,000-40,000.

Sorry, forgot this was supposed to be the Gas' thread, wasn't it.hno:


----------



## EADGBE

The Concerned Potato said:


> dont wish to offend any fans of Bristol Rovers or Bristol City, but i am AMAZED that at not one stage in their histories was a merge considered. Bristol deserves a big football club playing at the top end of English football


There were quite a few years where you could have used exactly the same logic to propose a merger between Birmingham City and Aston Villa. For a so-called 'second city', arguably the city of Birmingham's status is less represented in football success _pro rata_ than even Bristol.


----------



## SkyLerm

Looks like a 40k seater...:sly:


----------



## Alle

Thx for the link.

I have some questions about this. Sicne im not very much intro gridiron (but it is interesting).

First of all congratulations Japan, 48-0 against france .

How often is this World Cup going to be played, every year, every fourth year? I hope its every fourth year or every second year so that it gets more interesting when its played.

Secondly, does the USA have all their starplayers with them?


Any photos of the stadiums?


----------



## rantanamo

AKing said:


> Secondly, does the USA have all their starplayers with them?


Not even close. They don't even have college star players, let alone professional. The US roster is completely filled with college players that ended their college careers last season and haven't been picked up or drafted by any of the professional leagues. And these players are from all divisions of college football. Looking at the roster, they'd be a lower tier team in Division I or upper tier team in Division II judgind by the level of talent. The US could possibly form 250 better teams than this. Probably more.


----------



## rantanamo

not a huge soccer fan, but love the new stadium boom. Also glad to see the MLS doing well enough to garner nice new digs for each team.


----------



## Canadian Chocho

3tmk said:


> Damn DC, they'll even get a better stadium than RB park
> Oh well, I'm ditching RB anyway as soon as they bring the second team to NY
> Maybe the Mets might give us a way cooler stadium


New York doesn't deserve a second team.


----------



## 3tmk

Yes we do
So far only New Jersey has a team 
I can bet you that it will be even more successful than the Metrobulls, if and only if they locate it within the city limits and near decent transport.
By the time RB park opens, I'm sure we'll have the plans for a new stadium
and the rivalry is what will really make both clubs take off


But for this thread, it must be said that Poplar point is far from being approved or officialized, this is still early schemes to persuade the District to finally give in the land it owns to the franchise to build their own stadium. I'm sure the final product will be different, although it kicks ass


----------



## nyrmetros

Canadian Chocho said:


> New York doesn't deserve a second team.


You are right. NYC deserves its first MLS team.


----------



## GNU

27.000?
It definitely looks way bigger on the renderings.
More like 35-40k


----------



## GNU

hmm...

Germany beat Korea 32-2 yesterday


----------



## Canadian Chocho

Ugh, American gridiron!


----------



## Canadian Chocho

nyrmetros said:


> You are right. NYC deserves its first MLS team.


For fucks sake it's the same thing. Red Bull Park is supposed to be across the bridge from New York, it ain't that far. Look at RBNY attendance, absolute shite! Another club in New York would just be a waste of time and money.

I don't understand why you would build a 25 000+ seat stadium for a club whos highest attendance this year so far at home was 15 500, let alone form a new cub in the city. 

PS. Here's and interesting fact: the largestt attendance this year for a game involving New York was in Toronto.

Toronto 'til I die!


----------



## Canadian Chocho

Oh and on the subject of DCU's stadium. It's nice, too bad it's for a shit team like DCU. Luciano Emilio is the biggest wanker in MLS.


----------



## krudmonk

DCU fans deserve a great stadium. New York metro _doesn't_ deserve a *second* team.


----------



## krudmonk

This is a joke. NFL will always be king here, but why does American football have to be sold abroad?


----------



## 3tmk

Canadian Chocho said:


> For fucks sake it's the same thing. Red Bull Park is supposed to be across the bridge from New York, it ain't that far. Look at RBNY attendance, absolute shite! Another club in New York would just be a waste of time and money.
> 
> I don't understand why you would build a 25 000+ seat stadium for a club whos highest attendance this year so far at home was 15 500, let alone form a new cub in the city.
> 
> PS. Here's and interesting fact: the largestt attendance this year for a game involving New York was in Toronto.
> 
> Toronto 'til I die!


I don't think you know what you are talking about, so let me lecture you

The Metrobulls play in GIANTS Stadium, which is in the meadowlands in New Jersey. The only way to get there is through the tunnel with a car, or getting a bus from the Port Authority, which obviously sucks. Unless if you carpool or own a car, it's hell to get there, and even if you love the team (which I don't), you have to deal with Giants stadium which is in horrible state, and they play on artificial turf, which is a joke.

Now, you talk about the Red Bull Park. I have to say that stadium is going to shit over anything else built so far by the MLS. But that stadium is still in construction. In fact it's been delayed because, surprise surprise, the ground pollution was greater than expected (cough New Jersey cough). Still, it is in a nice location, in Harrison, a bridge away from Newark, the area is in major rejuvenation, and what's more, it is served by PATH, so even if it is a bit further from the city than the meadowlands, people can get there by rail, even from the city, they just get a ride on the train, and the stadium will be in an urban environment, instead of the sprawling parking desert that is the meadowlands.

The problem is, it won't be completed until 2009.
Until then, the club still plays at Giants Stadium, and after 12 years of crap, they finally started playing well. It's no wonder people aren't willing to get through the trouble of going to the GS, despite the club's current good form. Also many people (like me), dislike Red Bull owning the franchise, so until I get a second team, I'm stuck with them, and I won't let a poser like you talk bullshit without putting you back in your place.
Because I can assure you, a second team will be nothing but a success, and I bet that the Metrobulls will ride on its coattails

Oh, and I remember Angel shitting all over your stadium of seagulls kay:
:cheers:


----------



## carlspannoosh

Stadia?Sports arenas? Just a thought. Nevermind.


----------



## Benn

Not to say that the New York area won't deserve another team eventually, but there are alot of cities that deserve to get one before New York gets a second. The MLS would be better served by putting a team in the following areas:
Vancouver
Phoenix
Milwaukee
Montreal
Bay Area
Philly
Twin Cities
Portland
And maybe try Florida again, although they have had a terrible track record with pro soccer

Maybe eventually a second to new York, but not until some deserving cities get A team.


----------



## Canadian Chocho

3tmk said:


> Oh, and I remember Angel shitting all over your stadium of seagulls kay:
> :cheers:


2-1???? Big fucken deal, just wait 'til our next meeting (Aug 12th I believe), Toronto will "shit" all over you like we did against Dallas.


----------



## sapmi1

I love it! Let's hope they'll build it! :banana:


----------



## Nameless

I voted San Diego but the poll should have included Phoenix.


----------



## nomarandlee

7t said:


> You do realise East Rutherford is located in Northern Jersey, right?
> More precisely, Bergen County, the richest county in the State and also part of the New York Metropolitan area.


Yea, but I got the impression that it was located in a pretty suburban middle class area from what I can remember when we stayed in Secaucus.. I can't remember what the Manhattan proposal was going to cost but I don't remember it as something a lot more then this one which I would think it would be in comparison.


----------



## urbanpreppie05

*Summa Field at Infocision Stadium, Akron, OH, 25-30,000 seats*

Slated Opening: September 12, 2009.
Cost: 55 Million, not tax supported or Tuition based
For: The University of Akron, Akron, OH (23,000 Students)

History: The Akron Zips football team (2005 MAC Champs) have played in the historic yet dilapidated Rubber Bowl since the 1930's. And in the last 20 years, the stadium has fallen in such disrepair, that parts of the 35,000 seat stadium have tarps over it because the seats are unsafe. To Fix the stadium would cost $66 million dollars.
Did I mention its about 8 miles off campus?
This is probably the possibly the second largest project in the school's history- second only to the Landscape for Learning project, where the school closed two streets and converted them to green space, and built a new Student Union, Classroom Building, Rec Center and Field House, parking deck and 2 residence halls. 
The project is so big that it's not without some controversy...the University bought the Quaker Square Crowne Plaza Hotel center to house the students to be displaced for the stadium. They did this without the mayor knowing, and he's upset that the University will be closing one of downtown's 2 hotels. (he fails to acknowledge that the downtown hotel market has been VERY soft for years, but that's another story). As a concession, when the University takes the hotel over at the end of the year, they will only be closing half of it until 2009. The University also transferred land to the city so someone would be able to build a new hotel downtown. (And apparently, there have been offers)
Another controversy is that some businesses/homes will have to be relocated. 2 holdouts are Manny's Pub/Aroma Coffee (he owns them both) who has stated he wants to be a part of the new project, and The Odd Corner, a cannabis shop who doesnt want to move. Because this is an educational development (there are also classrooms and residence halls on the site) eminent domain proceedings may be used. Hopefully, they'll be able to sort it all out before it comes to that. 
In general though, the project has been met with excitement and will likely increase enrollment in the coming years.
Anyway, here it is!


----------



## Jim856796

Good. I hope the old Rubber Bowl gets redeveloped somehow.


----------



## 7t

The stadium is built in the large Medowlands Complex that's spread in an area that used to be swamp land. It's accessible to Route 3 which is one of the major highways that links New Jersey with New York. There are no suburban areas nearby.


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## Bigmac1212

It's nice.

Now we need Kent State and Toledo to get some new facilities.


----------



## pompeyfan

looks a lot like DKR


----------



## Goothrey

Yeah, I can see how it looks like DKR with that second deck, however, on a much smaller scale.


----------



## th0m

Very nice. So where's all this money coming from, then?


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## urbanpreppie05

th0m said:


> Very nice. So where's all this money coming from, then?


Donations, naming rights, tickets sales, etc. Not student funds or tax dollars.


----------



## Bobby3

What is the plan for the Rubber Bowl? Getting torn down?


----------



## gct13

Bump.

The 2007 season is a few weeks away and the new North End Zone is ready:




















The new suites / press area on the west side will be completed for the 2008 season-











*More Memorial Stadium renovations photos >>>>*


----------



## Goothrey

This is great for Illinios. My cousin is a senior there.


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## th0m

The Endzone structure seems to go down farther than it shows on the pictures, is it totally done yet? Also, I'm assuming they're losing capacity from biting such a large chunk out of that upperdek for the - sweet looking, might I add - luxury boxes, or at least until they, as they put it, 'revamp' the horseshoe which apparently isn't part of the original expansion/renovation plan. All in all, it should be a sweet place to be at, that West (and East) facade reminds me of Soldier Field.


----------



## Benn

Yeah, its dropping down to around 60,000 seats, they weren't selling out the stadium regularly, so the suites, club seats and reduced capacity seems to make some sense. 
About the Northwestern comments, its the smallest school in the big ten, and has always been an academics first kind of school. They don't fill up either venue dependably, and although both are old the school has more important things to spend money on than expansions to the stadium or a new arena. Last year visiting Big Ten teams often had more fans at Northwestern games than Northwestern did.


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## th0m

Getting beat by New Hampshire in your own stadium (after you paid them a nice guarantee, nonetheless) doesn't help either. But of course there are countless more examples for that scenario (Colorado, Miss. State, Duke, Rutgers to name a few).


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## Pronaos

gct13 said:


> The new suites / press area on the west side will be completed for the 2008 season-


What are they going to do about the upper deck for this season?


----------



## gct13

Capacity was 69k before the renovations began, capacity for the 2007 season while construction is still going on will be 57k, and capacity when it's all said and done in 2008 will be around 65k.

The upper deck on the side where the cranes are in that pic will be closed to spectators in 2007, they'll continue to work on adding the suites / new press area.


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## th0m

Are they going to remove the columns that obscure the view for some spectators on the lower deck?

The reduced capacity shouldn't pose problems either, since they drew an average of 43k over 7 games last year.


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## Benn

On the west side there won't be any obstructed views, but alot of seats are/have been removed for the suites/club seats. As far as I know the east side will not be changed.


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## Jim856796

So which do you prefer: Dual stadium complex (separate facilities for baseball and football), or just a single multipurpose stadium?


----------



## nomarandlee

*Tampa Bay Rays (MLB Baseball) new stadium proposal*

From over in the Tampa Forum (Jonknee specifically). New renders about a new proposed Rays stadium (MLB baseball).



> http://blogs.tampabay.com/rays/2007/11/rays-unveil-dra.html
> 
> 
> November 28, 2007
> *Rays unveil dramatic ballpark vision*
> 
> ST. PETERSBURG — The Tampa Bay Rays this afternoon revealed a bold plan for a new waterfront baseball stadium at one end of a dramatically transformed St. Petersburg downtown.
> 
> *The Rays’ plans call for a $450-million, open-air, 34,000-seat stadium to open in 2012 at the current site of Al Lang Field*. *On the other end of downtown at Tropicana Field, the team proposes a massive retail and residential development.*
> "We’re talking about a major-league downtown," Rays principal owner Stuart Sternberg said during a meeting with the St. Petersburg Times editorial board, where he previewed the concept.
> 
> "My goodness, it's beautiful," said Gov. Charlie Crist, after a rendering of the stadium was unveiled.
> 
> The break in the team’s silence comes after nearly three weeks of speculation. Rays officials said they spent 1 1/2 years working on the plan, which was first reported Nov. 9 by the St. Petersburg Times’ Web site, www.tampabay.com.
> 
> The team formally unveiled its plans at a 2:15 p.m. announcement that included Crist, St. Petersburg Mayor Rick Baker and Major League Baseball president Bob DuPuy.
> 
> Several significant questions remain about financing, parking and the Florida heat.
> Rays officials insist the project will not require new tax money.* But the plan does call for $60-million in state tax money and property tax revenue from the redeveloped Tropicana Field site, as well as proceeds from the sale of that land.
> The team says it believes it can stay within its $450-million stadium budget and, if not, would be responsible for any cost overruns.*
> 
> "No new taxes," Sternberg said.
> 
> The stadium would require approval of St. Petersburg voters, because it involves a long-term lease of waterfront property. The team is asking for a November 2008 city referendum.
> 
> *The stadium would include a sail-like cover, anchored to a 320-foot-tall mast, that could be used when it rains.* It would be constructed in a way to maximize views of the waterfront and the city skyline in what Sternberg termed a "sweeping, open, inviting" design.
> 
> "We want to create something iconic … that will become the postcard shot of St. Pete," Rays vice president Michael Kalt said.
> 
> The Rays plan for the stadium to open for the 2012 season, which would allow the team to play host to the Major League Baseball All-Star Game within a few years. The team believes the stadium would become a destination, with fans spending hours before and after games in the area.
> 
> "We have the ability to make such an impact on the community, and we embrace our responsibility," said Rays president Matt Silverman.
> 
> Among the key points to the project:
> 
> Tropicana redevelopment
> 
> *The Rays are working with one of the world’s largest private real estate developers to turn Tropicana Field and its adjacent parking lots into a mixed-use development worth up to $700-million.*
> 
> Hines Interests in Houston has developed a plan to turn the 85-acre Trop site into a sprawling retail and residential community, anchored by a major outdoor merchandise chain. Rays officials declined to name the retailer.
> 
> The development would include 900 residential units and 1-million square feet of retail space, team officials said. Fourteen new acres of public parks would be created and centered around an enhanced Booker Creek.
> 
> *If the Rays keep to their timetable, work on the site would begin in 2009, and a first phase would be complete by 2011.*
> 
> "It’s a blank canvas for a developer," said Rays president Matt Silverman.
> 
> Combined with a new stadium on the waterfront, team officials said the development could finally push the growth of downtown beyond the waterfront while fulfilling the promise of economic development that never materialized at the Tropicana site.
> 
> In order for any of it to happen, though, the city first would have to request proposals for the site from developers — a requirement because the land is publicly owned.
> 
> The city would get to set the ground rules — how many residential units, how much retail — but the developers would set the asking price.
> 
> Rays officials said Hines is interested in developing the site, but recognize that other developers would be, too. Kalt said the team would ask the city to begin the development process within months.
> 
> Financing
> 
> Sternberg pledged that the stadium would be built with no new city taxes. The money, $450-million, largely would come from the Rays and the redevelopment of the Tropicana Field site.
> 
> The cost includes a contingency, Kalt said, as well as money for improvements to a park to the north of the stadium. Any cost overruns would be the team’s responsibility, Kalt said.
> 
> Here’s how the financing would work:
> 
> The Rays, who now pay about $1-million a year in rent to the city, would increase their yearly payments to close to $10-million. The city would then issue bonds, with the rent as the pledged revenue, to pay approximately $150-million of the construction costs.
> 
> The Rays also would benefit from the sale and redevelopment of the Tropicana Field site. The team said the site could be worth between $250-million and $300-million to the Rays. Part of that money would come from the future property taxes created by the Tropicana redevelopment. Called tax increment financing, the program funnels city and county property taxes toward downtown capital projects.
> 
> The tax program has been in place in downtown St. Petersburg since 1982 and runs through 2035.
> 
> The two revenue streams, Kalt said, are "sufficient to form a financing plan."
> 
> Sternberg said the team also would pursue $60-million in state funding in the form of a sales tax subsidy.
> 
> "It is a significant amount of money that would cause us to make changes in our design" if the legislature rejects the funding, Sternberg said. But, "it wouldn’t be a show stopper."
> 
> Weather issues
> 
> *Though the stadium would be open air, a sail-like roof that could be deployed in about eight minutes would provide cover in the event of rain, *resulting in postponements or delays only in extreme conditions.
> 
> The Rays would play mostly night games in the stadium and would plan to keep the cover on during the afternoons to keep the temperature in the seating area down. *Fans or misters would provide cooling, and some stadium areas — possibly the concourses — would be air-conditioned*.
> 
> Team officials said with that technology and the breeze coming off Tampa Bay, the stadium would be relatively comfortable even without full air conditioning. The team has hired a climatologist who estimates it would be about 4 degrees cooler than the average temperature for a game in Atlanta, and on par with summer conditions in Kansas City and St. Louis.
> 
> Stadium design
> 
> Rather than the retro look that has been popularized in Baltimore, Cleveland, Arlington, Texas, and San Diego, the proposed stadium would have an open, modernistic “21st century design” without a brick in the building.
> 
> Though the 34,000-seat stadium would be a snug fit when oriented on the Al Lang site, *the field dimensions will not be compromised, with somewhat standard measurements, including 320 feet down the rightfield line, with balls that go over the wall and splash into the water.*
> 
> *The roof would be attached to the top of the stadium and anchored to a 320-foot mast in left-centerfield*. The cables for the roof would be strung permanently over the playing field but high enough that they would only come into play in the most extreme circumstances. (Architects said the same thing about the catwalks at Tropicana Field, but they are hit regularly.)
> 
> "Essentially it’s a glorified umbrella," Kalt said.
> 
> "I like to think of it as a convertible top," Silverman said.
> 
> The seating areas would be constructed to maximize views of the water and St. Petersburg’s skyline, with what would be the smallest upper deck seating area (about 10,000 seats) in Major League Baseball. There would be no seats from the rightfield foul pole across to left-centerfield.
> 
> Although the stadium will be designed for baseball, it will be able to accommodate other events, including football, which could lead to a college football bowl game.
> To accommodate the stadium, the Rays say they would need to fill in a small area of the waterfront to shift a section of Bayshore Drive east. The road would be closed to vehicles on game days.
> 
> At today's announcement, Rays' first-baseman Carlos Pena hit balls from what would be the spot of home plate in the new ballpark. After several attempts, he hit a ball into the Tampa Bay.
> 
> Parking
> 
> *There would be minimal parking on the site, provided by a small garage*. The Rays say there are enough existing spots in lots and garages in the area. They say there are 12,000 spots within a 15-minute walk of the stadium and that many could be used for game parking, that more could be available, and there will also be parking at the Tropicana Field site, with some type of shuttle service.
> 
> -- By Aaron Sharockman and Marc Topkin, Times staff writers
> 
> November 28, 2007


----------



## nomarandlee

Renders via Jonknee via *SP Times *(originally)..........


----------



## nomarandlee




----------



## Beware

*Just Curious*

:hm: Why is This " Devil Ray " project proposed for, downtown, St. Petersburg.... instead of, downtown,*Tampa? * Is it due to Money, Politics, or Both?


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## Benn

Kauffman gone wild?


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## ElVoltageDR

I wonder why they didn't just design a better first stadium... Tropicana Field is one ugly motha fu...


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## Scba

Well, the team is Tampa bay, not Tampa.

This seems decent, but I'm just not sure that people would put up with some of the weather they get, even when partially covered. You'd need a full retractable dome. Also, the roof and tower are the only things remotely inspiring about the field. Something else needs some spice.

And they gotta change those new uniforms - YUCK!


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## Longhorn Al

I like it a lot. But I'm sure it'll get pretty humid there.


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## Uncle Phil

I think the new jerseys and hats are a downgrade. And they no longer are the Devil Rays. They are now the Rays, as in rays from the sun. 

Awesome stadium proposal. Much, much better then the pile of junk they called home before. I just wish they could build in Tampa instead of St. Pete. I believe they signed an agreement with the city though.

And looking at the Rays as a team, they could be alright next year.


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## carlspannoosh

Its almost sort of uhm European looking. That roof reminds me a bit of the roof at one end of the Oval in London.


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## eMKay

That is gorgeous, much better than some of the boring recent MLB designs.


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## Gecko1989

this is a really nice refreshing design for a baseball stadium all the new ones that are being built are just copy the baltimore Oreils stadium but this has a really new fresh design.


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## Maxim98

Scba said:


> Well, the team is Tampa bay, not Tampa.
> 
> This seems decent, but I'm just not sure that people would put up with some of the weather they get, even when partially covered. You'd need a full retractable dome. Also, the roof and tower are the only things remotely inspiring about the field. Something else needs some spice.
> 
> And they gotta change those new uniforms - YUCK!


Well, the article mentions that a roof can extend over the entire field in about eight minutes via those lines you see suspended above the field.

I like the design. Sure is an improvement over Tropicana - yuck!

St. Pete is a really lovely place - this will only add to the waterfront's charm and no doubt increase the appeal of the team to locals. It's a very nice location.


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## Bobby3

Gecko1989 said:


> this is a really nice refreshing design for a baseball stadium all the new ones that are being built are just copy the baltimore Oreils stadium but this has a really new fresh design.


I loved Camden Yards at first, but now I can't stand the "classic parks" because everyone is building one.

Credit to the Rays for going out on a limb.


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## Maxim98

Here's an interesting picture of the existing practice field (Al Lang Field - the actual place where the Rays play is on the interior side of the downtown). The building you see going up in this picture will really compliment the design of this field I think-


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## Benn

First the Twins, now the Rays being somewhat creative. It definately borrows from Kaufman stadium in KC, not in a bad way though. Be interesting to see how well the retractable roof works, looks like it has some similarities to the Montreal Olympic stadium roof, which has certainly been problematic. Price tag isn't awful considering the roof and all either.


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## nomarandlee

Beware said:


> :hm: Why is This " Devil Ray " project proposed for, downtown, St. Petersburg.... instead of, downtown,*Tampa? * Is it due to Money, Politics, or Both?


I can't tell you for sure as I am not from the area but I think the teams logic has been that St.Pete is more or less the middle in the TB-STP-Sara Metro. Maybe a local could tell me if I am correct.


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## Joop20

This looks rather fancy, very creative for an MLB stadium! :cheers:


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## nomarandlee

I dig the stadium. I think it is pretty darn creative and innovative. It does seem a bit expensive for a 34k stadium that will have a mast instead of a hard roof but I like the sense of openess that it will still provide. The shadows from the wires may be a bit distracting but hopefully nothing major.

It kinda reminds me of having a bit of Calatrava in it. If executed well it I think it can be potentially be striking and if the new roof system looks or acts goofy it looks like it could be taken down without too much fuss.


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## hoosier

Beautiful stadium. I just think due to the humidity during the summer the roof should be able to completely cover the stadium and the facility should be air-conditioned.

As far playing in Tampa, that city already has the Buccaneers and Lightning and St. Pete, being a large city itself and part of the metroplex, deserves to have a pro sports team.


----------



## Mr. Met

*NEW YORK | Citi Field*


































On November 13, 2006, Citigroup - the leading global financial services company operating in more than 100 countries - and the New York Mets announced an exclusive 20-year, multifaceted strategic
View from the Northeast marketing and business partnership that includes the naming rights for Citi Field, the new world-class home of the Mets, scheduled to open by Opening Day 2009.

Citi Field will feature unprecedented sightlines, amenities, and comfort for Mets fans, sports fans and visitors to the New York metropolitan area. The open-air ballpark connects the Mets' National League heritage to the future and to the City through a number of unique design elements. Citi Field will feature natural grass and capacity for approximately 45,000 fans. A contoured seating configuration will bring spectators closer to the field on all levels to provide optimal sightlines for a more intimate and entertaining experience throughout the park.

> AMENITIES/FAN ENHANCEMENTS
View from Home Plate• Citi Field's baseball-specific design produces superior sightlines for the game throughout the venue. There is a more intimate atmosphere with seating angled toward the infield and set down closer to the field. Forty-two percent of the ballpark's seats will be located in the Concourse (or lowest) seating level.

• The ballpark will feature some of the widest unobstructed concourses in new sports facilities. Concession stands and restrooms will be located within the facility's exterior walls leaving the circulation areas with uninterrupted views of the field.

• Wider seats provide enhanced comfort throughout the venue while more space between the rows allows for improved legroom.

• The Concourse level features 360-degree, walk-around circulation around the ballpark with expansive field views and ample standing room. The Promenade level features a split-deck design providing uninterrupted views into the ballpark from the circulation and concession areas.

• Fans throughout the ballpark will have access to multiple sit-down, climate-controlled restaurants, bars, clubs, and lounges, a majority of which will provide field views, and a wide range of menu choices.

• Numerous permanent attractions built into the master plan add to Citi Field's family-friendly environment, including: an expanded Fan Fest family entertainment area within the ballpark on the Concourse level, an enhanced outfield Picnic Area adjacent to the batter's eye, multiple party deck areas, and an interactive Mets museum with club memorabilia and Hall of Fame displays.

> ARCHITECTURAL HIGHLIGHTS
Citi Field• Inspired by tradition, Citi Field will be clad in brick, limestone, granite and cast stone, with the brick closely resembling the masonry used at Ebbets Field, both in color and texture. Exposed steel will be painted dark blue and the seats will be dark green.

• A structural steel "bridge" motif throughout Citi Field reinforces the Mets' connection to New York's five boroughs while also symbolically linking the team's storied tradition to its future. Design elements call for exposed trusses, light towers, scoreboard structure, and a roof canopy that recall the ballparks of yesteryear.

• This landmark partnership will accelerate Citi's and the Mets' current significant commitments to the community with new resources to develop and launch outreach platforms and programs in and beyond New York City, involving both the Citigroup Foundation and the New York Mets Foundation.

Jackie Robinson RotundaAs the first step in this effort, the Mets and Citi will commission a statue and name the entry rotunda of Citi Field - inspired by the classic design of Ebbets Field - to honor Jackie Robinson, the legendary pioneer and great American who broke baseball's color barrier with the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1947. The partnership will include a significant commitment to recognize and perpetuate, in and around the rotunda and the community, Robinson's legacy and the "nine values" he embodied as articulated by his daughter and Foundation Vice Chair, Sharon Robinson: courage, integrity, determination, persistence, citizenship, justice, commitment, teamwork, and excellence.

In addition, Citi and the Mets through a pledge to the Jackie Robinson Foundation will help create the Jackie Robinson Foundation Museum and Education Center in lower Manhattan. As much as a tribute to Jackie Robinson, the Museum and Education Center will educate children about Jackie Robinson's pioneering spirit and leading role in social change. This partnership will support new programs for the Jackie Robinson Foundation, including leadership development and scholarships for students who exemplify Jackie's humanitarian ideals.

> SETTING HIGHLIGHTS
• A landscaped plaza around the ballpark will welcome fans, improve access and egress, and create space for pre- and post-game activities, vendors, and other amenities.

Various areas of Citi Field will reinforce the setting of the venue and the Mets connection to the City of New York and baseball history, including: the Ebbets Club behind the plate, Coogan's Landing beyond the leftfield fence, the "East Side" stands in rightfield, and "The Orchard" picnic area in centerfield.

> ON THE DIAMOND
Field Orientation: The four-acre natural turf field will expand from home in a northeasterly direction with the leftfield line stretching northward, and the rightfield line extending eastward.

Right Field Porch: In rightfield there will be a singular deck that will be situated to extend into and over fair territory by eight feet.

Pitcher Friendly: Distinctive asymmetrical outfield walls, along with generous dimensions (LF - 335'; LC - 379'; CF - 408'; RC - 383'; RF - 330') make for a traditional pitcher's park.

> DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION
Sterling Equities, the Mets ownership group, has expertise and experience in the development and management of premium New York City properties, as well as new minor league ballparks in Coney Island and Port St. Lucie, Fla. The Citi Field project is developed by Queens Ballpark Company, L.L.C. and has been designed by the internationally renowned architects of HOK Sport. HOK Sport has designed and renovated 13 of the 30 major league ballparks in use today and seven of the last eight to open in Major League Baseball. Hunt-Bovis, a joint venture of Hunt Construction Group and Bovis Lend Lease, will provide construction management.


----------



## Mr. Met

*ST. PETERSBURG | New Rays Ballpark*

New tax revenues, new jobs, and over $1 billion in new investment, all at no additional cost to taxpayers.
The Rays’ new waterfront ballpark and the redevelopment of the Tropicana Field site will continue St. Petersburg’s remarkable renaissance. Together, these projects will bring a dynamic mix of amenities downtown and create inviting new places within this lively, cosmopolitan community. Representing over $1 billion in private investment, these projects will not only activate the downtown core throughout the year, but bring new retailers, housing and open space to the area and serve as examples of superior architecture, urban design and sustainable development. They will contribute significantly to the area's culture and skyline.


----------



## Mr. Met




----------



## DeMaFrost

It looks like small dimensions for the field. I wonder if it would be possible to hit it ACROSS the waterway onto a boat or that dock like landmass


----------



## Calvin W

Already a thread about this stadium.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=331487


----------



## Calvin W

Again there is already a thread about this stadium. I suggest you take a look around before starting duplicate threads.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=316181


----------



## Mr. Met

No, that is for a different stadium. The stadium in the link you posted is for the Texas State University Longhorns football team. This is for the Dallas Cowboys of the NFL stadium. There is a big difference.


----------



## Mr. Met

It will be like AT&T park in San Fransisco where you can hit into the water. Nobody will be able to hit more than 5oo ft in a home run derby and the dock is probably further than that. I don't know if there is enough room for the boats to sit there like n San Fransisco, now the Rays only need a big name hitter who will hit it there consistently. But they are becoming a better team for a change.


----------



## 67868

stop making new threads
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=411641


----------



## eMKay

Mr. Met said:


> No, that is for a different stadium. The stadium in the link you posted is for the Texas State University Longhorns football team. This is for the Dallas Cowboys of the NFL stadium. There is a big difference.


And there is already a thread for that stadium, it's even on the first page...
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=411641


----------



## TexasBoi

Mr. Met said:


> No, that is for a different stadium. The stadium in the link you posted is for the Texas State University Longhorns football team. This is for the Dallas Cowboys of the NFL stadium. There is a big difference.


The Texas State University Longhorns?:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Mr. Met

*MIAMI | New Marlins Ballpark*

For a decade, the Marlins have attempted to get a new ballpark. On January 22, 2008, that could become a reality. The Marlins wanted to build a half billion dollar retractable roof stadium. It would seat about 34,000 fans and it would be a way for them to bring in more revenue so they could field a more competitive team every year instead of their infamous fire sales.


----------



## city_thing

Nice to see an American stadium that isn't surrounded by 4,000,000 square miles of carpark and highway.


----------



## hngcm

Has it been approved?


----------



## lpioe

Very nice design, I love the roof and the location.
Do you have more renders?


----------



## Calvin W

I may have posted the wrong link but at least I take alook around before spamming the forum with useless threads. 

Grab a glove and get in the game!

Your a newbie so I won't be to much of an asshole.


----------



## Mr. Met

Other Development (Part of Overall Project)


----------



## nyrmetros

can a mod just merge this thread? thanx.


----------



## Wezza

I don't usually like baseball stadiums, this one looks pretty funky though.


----------



## BobDaBuilder

So what happens to the old joint? It doesn't seem long ago they built it.


----------



## Chitowner245

Actually, Sam Zell wants to sell the stadium first to the Illinois Sports Facilities Authority, so that they can raise the mone to renovate the Wrigley so that it can stand for what the Tribune said, "The forseeable future." I'm not a huge fan of Zell or the tribune, but he's going to sell the stadium first before he sells the team in order to insure that 1. Wrigley won't be knocked down 2. that the team will be essentially forced to continue playing at Wrigley. The bottom line is that Zell wants things to stay the way they are, which will also make hopefully not as likely that the name will be changed from Wrigley. The ISFA helped with the soldier field renovation (which I hate) and the comiskey renovation (which is nice). A public fund could be developed by the ISFA in order to raise money for a renovation and to hopefully keep the Wrigley name. Zell is a whitesox investor, and I'm glad he's not a cynical bastard trying to destroy this city's most cherished sporting venue. Soldier Field could've been dealt wit much better by not placing a bizarre space ship within the beautiful classical skin, and by not reducing the number of seats by 20,000 and driving up ticket and concession prices. Apparently, authorities realize that the cubs fans will not tolerate anything other than a renovation that maintains the stadium's historical value. BTW: there are articles online that go into further detail.


----------



## nomarandlee

^^ True but I don't think Zell really gives a darn about having the ISFA have it in order to keep the Cubs there and renovate as much as using that as a pretext to sell the Cubs to the state and the idea to the general public for complicated tax reasons which would allow him to sell it for mroe then if he did if he sold it to the new owner. The chances that a new owner would want to spur Wrigley or least the location of Wrigley and the city for suberbs is far fetched I would think.


I hope what you want is not something like Comisky which I think even with the improvements is one of the worst new generation stadiums to come along in baseball. I have been saying for a while that I am ready for a partial demolition of the park (the grandstands) and while leaving the outfield completely alone. Make it look very similar to the PNC grandstands which are low and not dominated by skyboxes. The outside I am not sure what I would want done but I would want to keep the marquee and would want to stay away from brick which almost every retro ballpark has utilized. I would still want them to keep the name though and not sell it out.

I don't often agree with Jay Marriotti and think of him as a bit of a tool but his suggestions in the paper today are pretty much what I have been thinking of for a few years now (every since reports of pieces crumbling).

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/mariotti/752197,mariotti012208.article
_Zell is starting to scare me
Trib owner's talk of unloading Wrigley to state and profiting off naming rights show that he just doesn't get the allure of the Cubs_.............


----------



## nomarandlee

Here is some photos of the grandstand at PNC park which I would most like the Cubs to emulate if they went for drastic renovations though I suggest they leave the outfied alone...



















Do NOT want....


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## Mr. Met

they already fixed the outfield ones, I don't think they will go for anything too radical because the Bears did that to Soldier Field and Illinois took the stadium's landmark status away


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## jkramb

*Virtual tour of new Indiana University basketball practice facility*

For those of you who follow college basketball, Indiana University just released a virtual tour of its new basketball development facility. To see it go to www.iuhoosiers.com and click play on the right where it says "hoosier highlights" They basically show you half of the building the other side of the building is identical and is for the women's basketball team.

What do you guys think. I think it looks fantastic and will serve the mens and women's basletball teams well.


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## GunnerJacket

If it helps them lose more games, I'm all for it! 




(Looks nice, though.)


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## jkramb

GunnerJacket said:


> If it helps them lose more games, I'm all for it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Looks nice, though.)


HMM. Illinois? Purdue? Kentucky? What's your poison?


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## GunnerJacket

I'm just razzing!  

Georgia Tech (obviously) and ACC, myself. But I was raised on Syracuse and my cousin (Evansville) and uncle (Miami, Ohio) helped forge a loathing of Bobby Knight. I also didn't appreciate the demeanor of IU's long-time soccer coach, but both characters knew how to win.


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## Dallasbrink

Indianas Coach Calvin Sampson is a cheap shot. Be careful;, when he leave Indian, you might find out he broke the recruiting rules like he did in Oklahoma, loosing you scholarships and him getting paid more and not penalized at Kentucky.


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## jkramb

GunnerJacket said:


> I'm just razzing!
> 
> Georgia Tech (obviously) and ACC, myself. But I was raised on Syracuse and my cousin (Evansville) and uncle (Miami, Ohio) helped forge a loathing of Bobby Knight. I also didn't appreciate the demeanor of IU's long-time soccer coach, but both characters knew how to win.


You had a problem with Yeagley? I've never heard a bad word about the man, although that's probably because he is considered god by the fans for creating one of the best soccer program in the country. It's hard to believe we have never gone more than 3 years without making it to the college cup (final four). Who would have ever though a small town in Indiana could put a college soccer team on the field that could beat a Mexican national team.


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## skobabe8

I cant find the video. :bash:


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## SpiderMonkey

Yeah, I can't find the video on the site. Is there a direct link that you can post. I would love to see the new place.


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## jkramb

sorry, they moved it.
go to http://iuhoosiers.cstv.com/ than click on all access in the top right and than go to mens basketball and than features. It will make you register for a free password, but it is quick and painless.


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## skobabe8

jkramb said:


> sorry, they moved it.
> go to http://iuhoosiers.cstv.com/ than click on all access in the top right and than go to mens basketball and than features. It will make you register for a free password, but it is quick and painless.



Thanks! Looked pretty good. Maybe not like Florida's new facility, but the money they have is on a different level.


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## jkramb

skobabe8 said:


> Thanks! Looked pretty good. Maybe not like Florida's new facility, but the money they have is on a different level.


Really, I think it's a lot nicer than Florida's. Here is a link to Florida http://www.gatorzone.com/facilities/?venue=oconn&sport=baskm&page=practice
I think Florida's is maybe nicer looking on the outside, but that's because IU's is built to match the indoor track and Assembly Hall. The one at IU will also cost more than Florida's. What do you guys think, Which one looks nicer?


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## jkramb

*New Indiana University Football Stadium Expansion*

http://all-access.cstv.com/cstv/pla...Features & Interviews (MediaType)&media=30501

You will have to create a free username and password to view the virtual tour.


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## eMKay

*Ralph Engelstad Arena, the greatest small arena?*

No doubt in my mind. Text taken from the arena website...

"It's impossible to describe the $104+ million Ralph Engelstad Arena in just a few words, but it is described by many as the "finest facility of its kind in the world." The 400,000 square foot arena is nothing but first class. All concourse floors are granite, each seat is constructed of leather and cherry wood, and there are 48 full luxury suites, two mini suites, and two enormous club rooms featuring the longest freestanding bars in the state. The training facility features a 10,000 sq. ft. weight room and underwater treadmill, fourteen locker rooms, the extra Olympic Sheet of Ice, and with the addition of the Betty Engelstad Sioux Center for the basketball and volleyball programs, what you have is more than a world-class facility; you have the Ralph Engelstad Arena.

The biggest attraction though, and the reason the arena was built, is Fighting Sioux Hockey. In its inaugural season (2001-02) in the new Ralph Engelstad Arena, Fighting Sioux Hockey attendance erupted into an all time high. All of the games in this 11,640 capacity hockey arena sold out in just 43 minutes after single game tickets went on sale for the inaugural season.

Since opening its doors on October 5, 2001, the Ralph Engelstad Arena has played host too many big attractions, such as Tim McGraw, Kenny Chesney, Stars on Ice, Dennis Miller, the Minnesota Wild, Toby Keith, Andre Agassi and Andy Roddick and many other entertainers and professional sport teams.
From December 25, 2004 – January 4, 2005, Ralph Engelstad Arena played host to the 2005 IIHF World Junior Hockey Championship. This tournament featured the best under-20 hockey players from around the world and put Grand Forks and Ralph Engelstad Arena at center stage in the hockey world for two weeks. It was the biggest event that this region had ever seen.

Ralph Engelstad Arena played host to the NCAA Division I Men’s Hockey West Regional Championship March 24-25, 2006 where the Fighting Sioux defeated Holy Cross to advance to the NCAA Frozen Four.

The 2008 Men’s World Curling Championship will be held at Ralph Engelstad Arena in April 2008. The Championship will feature 12 teams representing 12 countries competing for the Men's World Curling Title."

Interior photo tour...
http://www.pbase.com/mmingo/grandforks_jan2007

Review from "The Ultimate Sports Roadtrip"
http://www.thesportsroadtrip.com/ralphengelstadarena.html


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## Joop20

So, where is this arena located? And who are the Fighting Sioux? Is it only used for icehockey on a regular basis, or also other sports?

The exterior looks quite boring to be honest, there were some interior pics in the opening post, but apperantly they were deleted...


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## eMKay

Joop20 said:


> So, where is this arena located? And who are the Fighting Sioux? Is it only used for icehockey on a regular basis, or also other sports?
> 
> The exterior looks quite boring to be honest, there were some interior pics in the opening post, but apperantly they were deleted...


Only some of the pics worked, read the post again and go to the link for interior pics.

It's a college hockey team, the description in the post also shows what else it's used for, if you had bothered to read it.


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## Scba

You should tell us where it is somewhere in the text, though, rather than make us search around for it.


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## Benn

Its rediculously fancy, too bad it was funded by a probable Nazi on the condition that the school change its name back to the fighting Sioux against the Tribe's will.


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## Bobby3

Joop20 said:


> So, where is this arena located? And who are the Fighting Sioux? Is it only used for icehockey on a regular basis, or also other sports?
> 
> The exterior looks quite boring to be honest, there were some interior pics in the opening post, but apperantly they were deleted...


Grand Forks is in North Dakota. The University of North Dakota plays there.


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## antishock8

What a great school logo! What an amazing arena. I love it. I'm incredibly jealous we don't have anything like that where I live. Beautiful.

Ralph Engelstad Arena Quick Facts

Hockey seating capacity: 11,640 
Basketball seating capacity: 12,119 
Concert seating: 13,154 
Luxury Suites: 50 (48 full, 2 mini) 
Club Seats: 264 
2,200 Logos 
300 Television Sets 
4,000 tons of Steel 
3.2 Miles of Brass Accents on the floor 
1.1 Million Bricks 
$110+ Million Dollar Facility with the Betty Engelstad Sioux Center


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## antishock8

Noted Native American artist Bennet Brien of Belcourt, N.D., is the designer of the Fighting Sioux symbol. Mr. Brien’s artwork is vastly displayed but his most notable work can be seen in the main lobby of the Federal Office Building, on the University of North Dakota campus, and the lawn of the State Capitol in Bismarck. Brien, who holds a Master of Fine Arts degree from the University of North Dakota, describes the symbolism of the UND athletic mark as follows:



The feathers symbolize the outstanding rewards that students, faculty, staff, and alumni will achieve for academic, athletic and lifelong excellence. 
The determined look in the eyes symbolizes fortitude and never giving up and the focus necessary for sustained academic, athletic and lifelong achievement. 
The paint on the cheekbone symbolizes that life can be a battle and we have daily struggles. 
The color green symbolizes the development of young people and their growth at the University of North Dakota. 
The color yellow symbolizes the sun which provides humanity, light and warmth in order in order that life can continue. 
The color red symbolizes the lifeblood that has been poured out to make our state and people great.


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## antishock8




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## antishock8




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## antishock8




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## antishock8




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## antishock8




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## antishock8




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## antishock8




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## antishock8




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## eMKay

Benn said:


> Its rediculously fancy, too bad it was funded by a probable Nazi on the condition that the school change its name back to the fighting Sioux against the Tribe's will.


He wasn't a Nazi, and he didn't make the school change it's logo back, he said he did not want the school to change the logo. But we are not discussing your political ignorance here, we are discussing an amazing arena.


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## Benn

eMKay said:


> He wasn't a Nazi, and he didn't make the school change it's logo back, he said he did not want the school to change the logo. But we are not discussing your political ignorance here, we are discussing an amazing arena.


I worded that first statement poorly, He did not want the name to change from the Fighting Sioux, I had stated change back, as opposed to changed in the first place, my bad. And it certainly looks like a great arena, which I have unfortunately been unable to make it to.

However my understanding of the situation was that (and this is according to both an Architecture professor and an Ethnic Studies professor as well as reading) that the donation that led to the construction of the arena stipulated that the team name remain the fighting Sioux, something that ALL of the tribes opposed.

He also had a ton of Nazi Paraphenalia including a painting of himeself in a Nazi uniform, signed on the back "to Adolph from Ralphie", now I don't know what it takes for you to call someone a Nazi, sympathiser, wanna be Brownshirt ect, but that does it for me. He was quite the philanthropist too. But thats part of who he was which is really too bad, and you can call me ignorant or anything else you want, but this is still true. And I think the sketchy origins are somewhat relevant.


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## eMKay

I do not see how being a philanthropist can be "bad" and I also don't see how collecting WWII memorabilia and throwing joke parties makes someone a Nazi, I mean, how many potheads light up a 4:20? Does that make them all Nazis? I didn't think so, so will you drop the BS?


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## city_thing

How exactly is this the greatest small arena?


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## Joop20

eMKay said:


> Only some of the pics worked, read the post again and go to the link for interior pics.
> 
> It's a college hockey team, the description in the post also shows what else it's used for, if you had bothered to read it.


Dude, I did bother to read your post, but how am I supposed to know that Grand Forks is in North Dakota, or that the Sioux are a college hockey team. 
And I asked whether it's used for other sports on a _regular_ basis, not the one-off events that are mentioned in your post. 
I'm sure it's a great arena, but it's not to my taste. To me, it looks like it was designed in the 1970s, with all the brickwork, dark brown wood etc. And I don't get the added value having seats constructed of leather and cherry wood in an arena really.


----------



## antishock8

Joop20 said:


> Dude, I did bother to read your post, but how am I supposed to know that Grand Forks is in North Dakota, or that the Sioux are a college hockey team.
> And I asked whether it's used for other sports on a _regular_ basis, not the one-off events that are mentioned in your post.
> I'm sure it's a great arena, but it's not to my taste. To me, it looks like it was designed in the 1970s, with all the brickwork, dark brown wood etc. And I don't get the added value having seats constructed of leather and cherry wood in an arena really.


That's interesting. The very things that you don't like about the arena, I love. I think the design and decor reflect the mid-West, cowboyish, frontierism that the area still possesses. I also appreciate the attention to detail the arena has: brasswork, the leather chairs, logos everywhere. 

What the arena does, imo, is establishes a first-class hockey program at a small school that has to compete for skilled players in a very limited resource-pool. Think about it. This school has to complete with all the major schools like Michigan, etc., PLUS the minor hockey leagues constantly drafting talent out of high school.


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## Joop20

antishock8 said:


> That's interesting. The very things that you don't like about the arena, I love. I think the design and decor reflect the mid-West, cowboyish, frontierism that the area still possesses. I also appreciate the attention to detail the arena has: brasswork, the leather chairs, logos everywhere.
> 
> What the arena does, imo, is establishes a first-class hockey program at a small school that has to compete for skilled players in a very limited resource-pool. Think about it. This school has to complete with all the major schools like Michigan, etc., PLUS the minor hockey leagues constantly drafting talent out of high school.


Good point. I guess it's my personal preference that i prefer contemporary design over the 'cowboyish' style.

As far as competing for skilled ice hockey players - I have to admit I'm not into college sports or icehockey at all. And being from Europe, I don't exactly know how the hockey leagues and player transfers work, but I get your point.


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## Benn

eMKay said:


> I do not see how being a philanthropist can be "bad" and I also don't see how collecting WWII memorabilia and throwing joke parties makes someone a Nazi, I mean, how many potheads light up a 4:20? Does that make them all Nazis? I didn't think so, so will you drop the BS?


I did not intend to say the philanthropy was bad, I was trying to point out that was GOOD the NAZI stuff was bad. Anyway if you take the Nazi stuff as a joke thats fine, I dont' think it was a joke, but that was in the last post (really who celebrates Hitler's birthday every year as a joke) I made my point, I'm done. cool arena, maybe a little over the top but whatever.


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## koolio

nyrmetros said:


> terraces?


Is that even a question? Why would they ever allow terraces in North America?


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## nyrmetros

koolio said:


> Is that even a question? Why would they ever allow terraces in North America?


Houston currently has terraces.


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## Jayayess1190

This will do a lot of good to help revitalize Chester, hopefully.


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## Benn

several college basketball arenas have some standing terraces, although thats about it (and apperently Houston), although I don't think there are any laws against them in any state I know of.


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## koolio

nyrmetros said:


> Houston currently has terraces.


Isn't that a high school stadium?


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## ElVoltageDR

Probably the best MLS- dedicated stadiums to be built. DC's upcoming stadium is nice as well.


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## Benn

koolio said:


> Isn't that a high school stadium?


College mostly, University of Houston


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## hngcm

ElVoltageDR said:


> Probably the best MLS- dedicated stadiums to be built. DC's upcoming stadium is nice as well.


What's the status on Poplar point?


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## BoulderGrad

hngcm said:


> What's the status on Poplar point?


I posed the same question on the DC pages. Here's the responses:



BoulderGrad said:


> So the development looks awesome, and I'm glad they're still at least talking about a stadium on the site. But I haven't been totally keeping up on the news about the development (being all the way over here in Seattle). So was the original development proposed by the team itself, and this is a proposal from a new developer? Is this a new plan from the DC united? What sort of things is the optionalness of the stadium decided on?





NovaWolverine said:


> The original development was by MacFarlane who is one of the owners of the soccer team. Fenty reneged and wanted to see more options. The Clark development was chosen and MacFarlane is working with them to integrate a stadium into the Poplar Point development. The "optionalness" has to do with the funding of the stadium. Originally MacFarlane was going to build the stadium with his money but he wanted infrastructure improvements to the area that would come from the city funds. The figure given for infrastructure was too high so that's why Fenty reneged. Now, if they can come to an agreement about the funding, I don't see any reason why this won't go forward. A lot of public funds were used in the construction of the Nationals stadium across the river so that has left a sour taste in many peoples mouths.
> 
> But also be aware that there are a lot of people that don't want any public funds going towards the stadium at all. Some of the bonds for the Nats stadium will be raised before a specified time frame that were stipulated for the bonds, I don't know maybe 20 yrs or something. That excess money was to go back to the businesses from which the bonds were being raised. But with this United stadium, Fenty wants to give the excess funds to the Poplar Pt. development. Businesses don't like that so there will be more politics in the process, but in the long run I think it gets approved.


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## nyrmetros

koolio said:


> Isn't that a high school stadium?


It's a college football stadium. The stadium used to have bleachers, however they were removed so that the Houston footy supporters could have a nice terrace. Well that, and they were constantly breaking the bleachers....


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## 40Acres

*Question about the '94 World Cup*

Saw this on another thread, and I've seen it here and there when discussing US '94 and future hosting possibilities for the USA, but _why exactly_ is/was the Rose Bowl perceived as an unsuitable venue for the final? Considering that its arguably the most famous and historical stadium in a country _obsessed_ with stadiums, set firmly in a cultural and footy hotbed, I question whether the vitriol its simply "world arrogance" that the USA got to finally host the world's biggest event, or if there is a more valid reason.

I've been to the Rose Bowl numerous times. Its gorgeous. Old, but gorgeous. We value classic stadiums here, and I assume that some other countries do as well, particularly in the UK. I suspect when Arsenal moved from Highbury to Emirates, there was grumbling. Should ManU ever bounce from Old Trafford, there would be many decrying the move.

Moreover, the RB was able to hold over 94,000 spectators, which, to my recollection, was second only to Azteca, though i could be remembering incorrectly. There was no other venue that could hold something this valuable, but also in a suitable environment as far as interest in the sport goes (e.g., Michigan Stadium, Neyland Stadium)

Anyway, I enjoy the setting of the RB, though not for the creature comforts as the modern stadiums have. It is a modern day "arena-for-the-ages". I hope it is never destroyed. Besides, you just have to sit in the thing for an hour and a half. 

I suspect that much of the disdain comes from the match itself, which was poorly played and the biggest stars that day were very flat, but is NOT a reflection of field conditions, weather, or anything else related to the stadium or city itself. Can anyone enlighten?


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## Benn

The Maracana in Brazil had capacity of almost 200,000 when it opened (and about 100,000 at present) in 1950 for the record. 
As far as I can tell the issues most Europeans have with the Rosebowl are three fold: one there is an extreme distaste for bleachers in europe which I cant eplain, two the Rosebowl has a very shallow pitch which is seen as disadvantagous for sightlines and atmosphere, and finally it does not have roof, which most Europeans will consider a must. And I suspect there is a splash of anti-American sentiment.
I wouldn't change much but, I appreciate as American Football holy ground.

However when you compare it to the numerous final match hosts with athletics tracks (Berlin Olympic, Yokohama ect) I think it stacks up pretty well in terms of capacity, sightlines and proximity to the field.


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## 40Acres

Okay, well lets call the '66 cup the beginning of the modern era, both in world cup football and in stadium construction. This cup was hosted by England and as the obvious choice for the final, we had 

WEMBLEY '66:









which, at the time were the holy grounds for football. It almost gets a free pass on this alone, but opened one year later than the RB and could not withstand irrelevance by the end of the century. 

AZTECA '70 & '86:









which was built in '66, and largely irrelevant by '86. Apart from the bench seating in the upper mezzanine, the grandstands sit far from the pitch. I will fully admit, though, that Mexico has a HUGE and DISTINCT advantage playing in this football palace, as the elevation, dirty air, and volume in the stands makes Azteca one of the most difficult places to play in the world. As a host for a WC final though, i don't see how it outlasts the Rose Bowl outright.

OLYMPIASTADION '74:









Are you kidding? A complete mess for hosting football, complete with track and unused space surrounding the pitch up to a good 40 yards. The Rose Bowl destroys this by a mile, almost literally

ESTADIO RIVER PLATE '78:









I've seen Argentina play in this stadium before, and although the atmosphere is literally second to none, it could HARDLY be deemed suitable for bull fighting, much less the premier sporting event on the planet. You don't like bench seating? how about concrete blocks? The stadium sways back and forth and feels dangerous. Sheesh. Rose Bowl outlasts this one as well.

BERNEBEU '82:









Another legendary ground made perfectly for viewing football. No complaints, it outclasses the RB in terms of footy watching in every aspect.

STADIOOLYMPICO '90:









Another afterthought as far as WC final stadiums go. Horrible sightlines, removed from the action, etc. Winner: RB

STADE DE FRANCE '98









Again, the distance too great from the endlines and sidelines for intimacy. I guess the roof is what really matters for WC finals, I'm starting to sense.

YOKOHAMA '02









I feel like I'm just repeating myself here.

BERLIN '06









The goals are a mile from the touchline. But hey! There's a roof after all!

ROSE BOWL '94









This pic shows american football configuration, but the football pitch is actually much wider and buts up intimately against the grandstands.

Personally, I feel that the RB wins out over all but Spain and England, and was underrated as a finals venue.


----------



## HoldenV8

40Acres, I have to agree. Apart from the Rose Bowl having no roof and thus no protection for the fans from the elements (hot Californian sun for one), I see the RB as one of the best World Cup Final stadiums there has ever been.

However, in the USA there are plenty of other stadiums which would be more than capable of holding the final. Namely.....

Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum (92,000)
FedEx Field (91,655)
Beaver Stadium (107,282)
Michigan Stadium (107,501)
Neyland Stadium (104,479)

The list goes on and on from pro football stadiums to college stadiums. The problem seems to stem from quite a few of the larger stadiums not having a roof (Rose Bowl, LA Coliseum, FedEx Field, Giants Stadium etc).

With regards to the roof situation, if they are worried about the heat of the day for spectators and players, play the damn games at night.


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## Kobo

Interesting thread. I didn't realise their was such angst against the Rose Bowl being chosen as the w.c final stadium. However why was it chosen as the LA stadium instead of the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum? Both are similar IMO. From your photo comparisons I feel that Madrids Bernebeu and Paris's Stade de France can rival how close the spectators are to the pitch. I think your Stade de France photo doesn't do it justice the fans are closer then that, but not as close as the Rose Bowl. Heres another stade de france photo:









(Alright behind the goal their not as close as I thought, but their closer then the old wembley, the Stade de France is a great stadium)

Its worth also mentioning that the Rose Bowl is one of only two stadiums to host both a mens and womens world cup final! So it must be considered a good stadium by Fifa. I suppose another question you should ask is, "Where else should the final have been played in the states?" I think the obvious answer would have been New York, however if Washington D.C or Chicago have had larger stadiums at the time maybe they would have been considered. Yes their are larger stadiums than the Rose Bowl in the U.S e.g Beaver Stadium in the State of Pennsylvania & Michigan Stadium in Ann Arbor, Michigan. But come on these places can't hold a World Cup Final it has to be held in an internationally known city and Los Angeles is that. I feel that it was the correct stadium to be used for the final, the city has the resources and experience to host such an event, and it was the largest stadium used in the tournament. It just had to host the final!


----------



## Carrerra

If USA hosts WC again it will be the worst decision by FIFA. It's a shame already that USA hosted WC in 1994. It makes no sense that FIFA gives a right to host WC to a country where most of people don't know even what football is.


----------



## Spartan_X

^^ I agree completely.


----------



## Kobo

Carrerra said:


> If USA hosts WC again it will be the worst decision by FIFA. It's a shame already that USA hosted WC in 1994. It makes no sense that FIFA gives a right to host WC to a country where most of people don't know even what football is.


I expect America will host it again but I hope not as soon as 2018, I feel thats a little unfair. However your comment about American's not knowing what football is, is a weak argument, they do know what it is 19 million americans play the game. The reason football is not as big in the U.S as the rest of world is due to many factors. 1. Because of British colonialism and its global presence spread this very simple game across the world. 2. When Britain tried to spread it to America, it rejected the game because Americans associated football with old imperialist Europe and didn't want it sport's to be part of culture in the "New World", and so created its own sports Baseball, American Football etc. 

He are some facts about the success of the 1994 World Cup. During the 1994 W.C match between Morrocco and Saudi Arabia played in New Jersey's Giants stadium, it drew a crowd of more than 72,000 on a Wednesday afternoon. Its presumptuous to assume that this contest would not have drawn one-fifth of the figure in either Italia 90 or Mexico 86 the two preceding world cup hosts. As in these countries which have core football fans, the fans would have found it beneath their interest to attend a game contested by such mediocre teams. My next point is USA 94 set and still holds the highest average attendance of a fifa World Cup that of 68,991. I could go on and on and on, I shall not as this thread is about stadium architecture not about globalisation of sports, but Carrerra I hope you get my point that americans do know what football is!


----------



## Carrerra

Regardless of how many Americans know what football is, now that continental rotation policy in hosting WC is abandoned there will be no more WC in USA as long as football is treated like minor sports there. 

In case of 1994 WC it was North America's turn to host the tournament but Mexico had already WC twice and there was no country which could afford WC except USA therefore 1994 WC had to go to USA. But this kind of fluke is not by USA side any more because the rotation system is not in effect from bids for 2018 WC.


----------



## Kobo

As I said 19 million people play football in the states, thats just under a third of the population of Great Britain. Football in the states won't ever become the biggest sport as its other sports are too much part of its culture. However it could one day overtake the NHL to be 4th largest. With regards to it being North America's turn in 1994 you are wrong, if any it was South America's as that continent had not hosted since 1978 with North America previously hosting in 1986. However for the 1994 W.C bids the USA beat Morocco and football mad Brazil for the rights to host. So I don't think that is a "fluke"! America was chosen as it could create a large amount of money from the tournament, and fifa could take its biggest football tournament into a new market. Also the roation policy wasn't used in 1994 as you implied. Finally I feel America will hold the tournament again one day as its the worlds super power and can't be ignored, I doubt it will be 2018 but maybe by 2032.


----------



## Rizzato

NeilF said:


> That said, I think there are other nations who should be given a chance before USA, given how relatively recently the USA held the championships. .


This is exactly right. 

Yet, I can understand why the footballing nations would be alittle ticked off when their main sporting event is being taken across the globe to countries with less passion for the sport; it only happens every 4 years and this is another reason why many countries would be enraged since USA had it recently


----------



## Rizzato

Carrerra said:


> Off the topic what do you think of America's invading Iraq for Weapons of Mass Destruction which turned out to be Weapons of Mass Disappear later. Who will punish the misjudgement of USA which caused Mass Destruction of Iraqi people?


We all do not agree with what our president and administration has done.
my country has fucked up that area, stationed itself around Iran on both sides, and is _still in fucking IRaq_
man, I hope we can just pull out of that whole area when we get a new prez; let some sort of healing process begin for the seething global population.

anyways, off topic, you shouldnt do that, etc


----------



## Carrerra

Rizzato said:


> We all do not agree with what our president and administration has done.
> my country has fucked up that area, stationed itself around Iran on both sides, and is _still in fucking IRaq_
> man, I hope we can just pull out of that whole area when we get a new prez; let some sort of healing process begin for the seething global population.
> 
> anyways, off topic, you shouldnt do that, etc


I don't want to have further discussions with you Americans about whether USA is the right candidate for World Cup. That's what I meant in that post. Good Bye!


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## Kobo

Carrerra said:


> Off the topic what do you think of America's invading Iraq for Weapons of Mass Destruction which turned out to be Weapons of Mass Disappear later. Who will punish the misjudgement of USA which caused Mass Destruction of Iraqi people?


This is completely off topic and belongs on a different thread. I oppose the war in Iraq.

I think the USA shouldn't host W.C again until at least 2026 or 2030, 2018 is just too soon.


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## carlspannoosh

40Acres said:


> Saw this on another thread, and I've seen it here and there when discussing US '94 and future hosting possibilities for the USA, but _why exactly_ is/was the Rose Bowl perceived as an unsuitable venue for the final? Considering that its arguably the most famous and historical stadium in a country _obsessed_ with stadiums, set firmly in a cultural and footy hotbed, I question whether the vitriol its simply "world arrogance" that the USA got to finally host the world's biggest event, or if there is a more valid reason.?


 I actually think 1994 was a very good World Cup. Full stadiums, and some classic games. The only disapointment was the final really. In terms of stadiums, I was watching on TV and not there, so all I cared about was that the stadium enhanced the ambience of the whole occasion. 

The stadium used for the final no doubt had a lot going for it,e.g big capacity and fans close to the action but it did lack in certain ways. 
Basically, for football, if you have shallow tiers you probably need a roof, so that the noise and atmosphere isnt lost to thin air.Chants can't catch on in a stadium with this design because the noise goes straight out of the stadium.

The World Cup Final 1994 lacked a proper football atmosphere. There was no communication across the tv of any chants, or much in the way of crowd reaction at all.If there is a sudden counter attack the defending team often has little time to think and can be unnerved if the crowd encourages the attacking team to go for the jugular. In a good stadium this type of thing is accentuated and enhances the whole drama of the game. 

Having said that, most World Cup Final stadiums have been shit for various reasons and I dont see any reason why USA should be singled out, afterall as mentioned earlier, it was still a very good World Cup .


----------



## Scoots71

In response to people saying that the American World Cup attendance was only higher because of the stadium sizes, keep in mind That the U.S. got nearly 3.6 million in attendance (the tournament record) in only 52 games, compared to the 64 in all World Cups since.


----------



## eMKay

Carrerra said:


> I don't want to have further discussions with you Americans about whether USA is the right candidate for World Cup. That's what I meant in that post. Good Bye!


Yeah, because you lost the argument due to ignorance, and had to resort to more ignorance.


----------



## NeilF

Scoots, again, I think that your post is misleading, in that you are playing around with statistics a little too much to suit your own needs; over the course of 52 games, the overall available capacity in USA was about 3,750,000, compared with a total overall available capacity of about 3,400,000 over the 64 games in Germany and 2,900,000 in France over those 64 games. Even though there were fewer games in USA, the number of tickets for sale overall was greater than in the two subsequent tournaments in Europe. I don't buy this attendance argument - given the various ways that I can play around with statistics, I can make a pretty valid argument for whatever I choose to. To be honest, I think the only revealing statistic we really have is percentage of overall capacity that was filled during the tournament; in USA, this was about 95.5%, 96% in France and 98.5% in Germany. I don't think that an overall difference of 3% is enough to draw inference here. In other words, given the massive differences in capacities across hosts and the change in format that we've seen, drawing inference from statistics, especially across the whole history of the world cup, is fairly difficult and it doesn't provide a good argument, or a good proxy for quality of a host nation. 

As I said, the fact that the USA is able to provide enough quality stadia with this sort of capacity is hugely impressive and it should make the USA a top competitor for a future world cup bid but I still don't buy into the argument being formed in this thread that the USA did something particularly special to attact so many people through the gates. A world cup in itself will attract those sorts of crowds. The ability to provide stadia of that sort of capacity is massively impressive, the crowds themselves, I'm afraid, aren't.


----------



## krudmonk

NeilF said:


> Krudmonk, the most likely explanation as to why USA holds the record for highest average attemdance is because...


I conceded all of those points already. My argument was that the percentage of people who don't care for football/soccer is largely outweighed by the sheer numbers of people who live here. Thus, proportions are rendered useless because it was successful anyway.


----------



## Benjuk

As we know, 2010 will be in Africa, 2014 in Brazil - I'm one of those idiots who can't see beyond Europe for 2018, but 2022... With Europe and South America out, that would leave North/Central America with 'only' Asia and Africa to beat. The only serious competition for the USA in that area is Mexico, and as they've already had the finals twice, and as the US had a greater economy/population in it's favour, and FIFA's continued hope to push the sport in a huge market, I find it hard to imagine anyone getting the vote over the US in 2022 (especially if the Europeans get behind one country for 2018, then 'trade' votes with Jack Warner and Co. for 2022).

So, 2022 - USA. Best venue for the final... By then there could be any number of new venues.

Finally, as I understand it, FIFA regulations only require that the VIP/Media areas be covered, the regular supporters can still be out in the sun/rain.


----------



## miguelon

me and my family attended the 94 world cup, we got tickets for 2 first round games at the rose bowl, first game was colombia vs rumania, then camerun vs sweden attendance above 90,000 in both games, im not sure if it was a complete sell out but in bot games the stadium looked full...

the athmosphere was great, but the sun and heat were horrible, and to get a drink or food was a nightmare,,, still with a +90,000 you will always get a experience of a lifetime.

Still spain, england, italy deserve first to get another world cup.


----------



## AcesHigh

HoldenV8 said:


> One thing I have noticed with the World Cup Final venue. Now it may or may not be a coincidence but.....almost every final has been held in the capital city of the host country. Remember I said almost. Brazil 50, West Germany 74, USA 94 & South Korea/Japan 02 were the exceptions.


actually, back in 1950, Rio de Janeiro was still the brazilian capital, since the construction of Brasilia would start just 9 years later.

What is today´s Rio de Janeiro state was a state called Guanabara, with its capital in Niteroi, and Rio de Janeiro city was the Federal District (a separate state)


----------



## svs

carlspannard said:


> Basically, for football, if you have shallow tiers you probably need a roof, so that the noise and atmosphere isnt lost to thin air.Chants can't catch on in a stadium with this design because the noise goes straight out of the stadium.


I was at the most recent Rose Bowl game. The chants and the crowd noise were transmitted very well. The stadium was very loud.


----------



## AcesHigh

actually, I think the Azteca stadium in Mexico is EXCELLENT and much better and cooler than Rosebowl!!

(haha, both are MEXICAN stadiums , in some sense)


----------



## nyrmetros

Carrerra said:


> If USA hosts WC again it will be the worst decision by FIFA. It's a shame already that USA hosted WC in 1994. It makes no sense that FIFA gives a right to host WC to a country where most of people don't know even what football is.


So I guess the most attended and most profitable FIFA WC ever was a mistake?


----------



## svs

Also in term of general fan support, let me just mention that the Los Angeles Galaxy had its home opener today at the Home Depot Center. All 27,000 seats were sold out. Bekham had a goal and an assist BTW. Plenty of support for football in LA.


----------



## NavyBlue

nyrmetros said:


> So I guess the most attended and most profitable FIFA WC ever was a mistake?


Funny how people conveniently forget that FACT.


USA '94 was great and would be even better should they host the tournament again.


----------



## nyrmetros

NavyBlue said:


> Funny how people conveniently forget that FACT.
> 
> 
> USA '94 was great and would be even better should they host the tournament again.


The next FIFA WC in the USA would be 5 times bigger than WC '94.


----------



## Federicoft

I think the problem with the Rose Bowl is the low gradient of the grandstands, which spoils the atmosphere and the sightness, and makes the closeness to the pitch pretty much futile. 
Are there some pics from the stands available?


----------



## Benn

Here are a couple, for a 90,000 seater it really is fairly close in, just shallow pitch of the bowl makes it feel smaller and more open, its got a very elegant curveture though. I kind of like being able to the trees and hills rise up around the Rose Bowl, really gives it a unique feel in this country.




























And here is link to the renovation plan, its a pretty big pdf
http://www.rosebowlstadium.com/pdfs/RoseBowlmasterplan.pdf


----------



## TalB

I would like to know what kind of fans were surveyed for this, b/c I have a feeling that it's not likely that these were everyday fans like us.


----------



## centreoftheuniverse

^^Why? Because your Mets are at the bottom? :lol:


----------



## nomarandlee

bigwilley said:


> I have been to wrigely and i didn't think wrigley was dumpy at all. It's a shame the history that has taken place at yankee stadium will be replace, and just being in the same structure as the greats of baseball called their home should send shivers down your spine
> and btw I hate the yankees & Redsox




I don't think Wrigley is all that dumpy either and is actually not it to bad of shape for its age. It holds up a ton better then the old Comisky did at the end and is in better form then the renovated Yankee stadium. 

Yankee stadium obviously does have great history but I have heard and it seems that it was radically altered during the 1970's renovation. Even a non-baseball fan would likely know they are in a unique park at Fenway or Wrigley. Someone who isn't much of a fan and who past teams and names they would not be impressed by likely would see few redeeming qualities in Yankee stadium. There is only so much ambiance that ghosh can provide in contrast to what is right in front of your eyes.


----------



## nomarandlee

TalB said:


> I would like to know what kind of fans were surveyed for this, b/c I have a feeling that it's not likely that these were everyday fans like us.


I think part of the problem is that it gives equal weight to the categories. For instance ease of affordable parking? I love that most of the time I wouldn't dream of parking within one-half mile of Wrigley and almost always take the L. It increazed by booze factor and serves the park much better then having endless lots around it.


----------



## TalB

centreoftheuniverse said:


> ^^Why? Because your Mets are at the bottom? :lol:


Actually, the Marlins and Nationals ballparks scored worse, so they aren't dead last.



normarandlee said:


> I think part of the problem is that it gives equal weight to the categories. For instance ease of affordable parking? I love that most of the time I wouldn't dream of parking within one-half mile of Wrigley and almost always take the L. It increazed by booze factor and serves the park much better then having endless lots around it.


I don't like paying the parking prices at stadiums, which is why am I glad that both Shea and Yakee Stadiums are not isolated so I can park somewhere nearby for free.


----------



## bing222

there is now a webcam

link:http://www.giants.com/fan_zone/ConstructionCam.asp


----------



## Indiana Jones

*INDIANAPOLIS - Indianapolis Motor Speedway (~300,000)*

I thought I would throw this in here since it doesn't fall under largest crowds for a stadium.

The home of the Indy 500 (IndyCar Series), Brickyard 400 (NASCAR) and now US Grand Prix (Moto GP). While the Indy 500 isn't what I used to be, it still draws between 250-300,000 fans every May. Unification of the two American open wheel series has helped. The Brickyard draws slightly less and the USGP is expecting over 100,000.

I like Indy as an oval because each turn is unique and tricky. With little banking, the turns are difficult and require (depending on the cars) braking or lifting (usually).

There are a million pictures, here are a few.










Front Straight:





































Turn 1:










Turn 2:










Turns 3 and 4:










Infield mounds:










Pit Lane:










Arial:










Infield Museum:










1992 Finish (Largest crowds were these years):






2006 Finish:


----------



## en1044

nice...i was on that golf course a few summers ago when i visited my cousin...its so big!


----------



## nyrmetros

Life was better before Tony George screwed things up. Oh well. Maybe unification will work out.


----------



## Scba

I'm surprised they haven't built condos somewhere in the infield.


----------



## swerve3030

I remember cheering for the Unsers in that race. Just an exciting day when the INDY 500 came around on the calender.


----------



## dande

*New MSG*

Anyone has renders of what it look like after the big facelift?


----------



## dande

*MSG*

Anyone has renders of the new interior after the big facelift?


----------



## en1044

I really dont understand what everyone's obsession with Reliant Stadium is...


----------



## en1044

http://www.msg.com/renovation/


----------



## Benn

They are totally destroying the bowl. More suites and what have you, but it's kind of a classic at this point. Too bad, but I suppose it was bound to happen sooner or later.


----------



## canarywondergod

isnt it time they built a new one anyway? i suppose space in manhatten is more limited these days now


----------



## en1044

canarywondergod said:


> isnt it time they built a new one anyway? i suppose space in manhatten is more limited these days now


The new bowl does look nice, and it seems as if theyre trying to keep some aspects of the original one


----------



## Benn

Sort of, and the concourses are much better than the current situation, There has just been enough history in that building tearing out most of the bowl and droping court and mid leve suites doesn't feel right, but anyway it's there building and they are paying for it privately so I can't argue too much.


----------



## TexasBoi

en1044 said:


> I really dont understand what everyone's obsession with Reliant Stadium is...


Ever been up to it and in it? It's a monstrous beauty.


----------



## nyrmetros

check the NYC stadium thread. bump it if you can.


----------



## nyrmetros

Reliant looks much better in soccer configuration than gridirons.....


----------



## nyrmetros

You will not be able to recognize MSG 4.5 aside from the roof.


----------



## Benn

The interior is fantastic, up near or at the of the NFL, the exterior is just terrible though, especially compared to the interior.


----------



## mgk920

Man, a discussion of NFL stadia and *NO* mention of Lambeau Field????

http://www.lambeaufield.com/

SHEESH!

hno:

Mike


----------



## en1044

TexasBoi said:


> Ever been up to it and in it? It's a monstrous beauty.


I have been there...its good, but not the best ive been to.


----------



## larsul

I think if we are talking about design, the worst stadiums i saw was Monsters park (really ugly and old) and the Lucas stadium (looks like an old warehouse). The last one is a shame. They invested all that money with such a horrible design..
The dallas cowboys new stadium and the Reliant are a piece of art. Not so far is the cardinals stadium, it is really a state of the art stadium..


----------



## en1044

larsul said:


> I think if we are talking about design, the worst stadiums i saw was Monsters park (really ugly and old) and the Lucas stadium (looks like an old warehouse). The last one is a shame. They invested all that money with such a horrible design..
> The dallas cowboys new stadium and the Reliant are a piece of art. Not so far is the cardinals stadium, it is really a state of the art stadium..


Lucas Oil Stadium probably has the most unique design out of all of them, and is awesome.


----------



## Indiana Jones

Pah, Fieldhouses are awesome and timeless. Lucas Oil will look great in Indiana in 25-35 years because it fits the area so well.


----------



## johncreasy

*Future Stadiums*

*-Name: Vikings Stadium
-Location: Minneapolis, MN
-Tenant: Minnesota Vikings
-Capacity: 68,000
-Surface: Unknown
-Construction Begins: Unknown
-Opens: 2011/2012
-Cost: $954 million
-Architect: Roma Design Group*








*Or*









----------------------------------
*-Name: 49ers Stadium
-Location: Santa Clara, CA
-Tenant: San Francisco 49ers
-Capacity: TBD
-Surface: TBD
-Construction Begins: TBD
-Opening: 2012
-Cost: Unknown
-Architect: HTNB*

















----------------------------------
*-Name: Los Angeles Stadium
-Location: Los Angeles, CA
-Tenant: Undetermined
-Capacity: 75,000
-Surface: Grass
-Construction Begins: Possible Fall 2008
-Opening: Possible Fall 2011
-Cost: $625 Million
-Architect: Unknown*

























----------------------------------
*-Name: Saints Stadium
-Location: New Orleans
-Tenant: New Orleans Saints
-Capacity: 60-70,000
-Surface: Unknown
-Construction Begins: Unknown
-Opening: Unknown
-Cost: Unknown
-Architect: HOK*


----------



## karim aboussir

I heard every single NFL team will have a new stadium by 2020


----------



## en1044

karim aboussir said:


> I heard every single NFL team will have a new stadium by 2020


As in their wont be a single stadium used in 2020 that is being used now?


----------



## mgk920

en1044 said:


> As in their wont be a single stadium used in 2020 that is being used now?


All of these new stadia, including the recently renovated Lambeau Field, pretty much max out all potential on-site team revenues. Now it's beginning to look like the teams are trying to 'out flash' each other (and at GREAT expense!) while the Green Bay Packers opted to concentrate on building from their rich, time-honored traditions.

I'm fully expecting the Packers to still be happily playing their home games at Lambeau in 2020.

Mike


----------



## Indiana Jones

I don't ever see Lambeau being obsolete. A sad day that will be.

I see the general direction of stadiums with more suites and more expensive seats. Has anyone ever built a stadium and said, "ticket prices will be lower!" What ever happened to showing up to games just to support your team? Now it's about how quickly you can get a $10 beer and the plushness and width of your seat.

Every stadium should have a terrace or large bleacher area. I'd rather sit there with real fans than the wine sippers between the twenties.


----------



## Iain1974

Indiana Jones said:


> Has anyone ever built a stadium and said, "ticket prices will be lower!" What ever happened to showing up to games just to support your team? Now it's about how quickly you can get a $10 beer and the plushness and width of your seat.


Try Germany.

Something we could do with is a thread about ticket prices/concessions. I think a top game in Germany is ~$10. One of our German friends might know better but this is the impression I have.


----------



## www.sercan.de

The lowest in Germany are 10-15 Euro (terrace)


----------



## Calvin W

NFL has or soon will price themselves out of 90/95% of the average fans price for tickets. Soon you will need to be a millionaire to see a game live or a VERY lucky average schmuck.

Oh well Cheers to the fall of the NFL. Anyone want to predict how soon?


----------



## dudu24

How much is some average season ticket in NFL ?


----------



## Indiana Jones

Yea, ze Germans have it figured it with terraces. Man I love terraces. Every is close to the action too. :cheers:

The cheapest NFL ticket is ~$25 and usually nosebleed. These are hard to get since there are so few and are scalped at around $40. 

College football is more affordable.


----------



## Iain1974

$25 is very reasonable. 

I posted some Premier League prices in one of the excellent German stadiums thread. Not many for $25.


----------



## Indiana Jones

I should have prefaced that by saying that $25 tickets can only be found for some teams and there are very few at that price.

I think the cheapest tickets in the New Cowboys Stadium are $60 and nosebleed. That's the nasty trend. I like how the terraces are great seats and cheap.


----------



## mgk920

Outdoor 'bowl' seats at Lambeau are in the $58-72 range.

Mike


----------



## MRichR

It should also be noted that an NFL team only has 8 home games a year, excluding pre-season and playoffs, and has a higher demand, so it makes sense that their tickets would be more than other sports. The wating list for season tickets for many teams can stretch years, or decades.


----------



## Big Texan

Calvin W said:


> NFL has or soon will price themselves out of 90/95% of the average fans price for tickets. Soon you will need to be a millionaire to see a game live or a VERY lucky average schmuck.
> 
> Oh well Cheers to the fall of the NFL. Anyone want to predict how soon?


Ill take up that bet
$1,000,000 on NEVER!


----------



## larsul

theres my million USD for NEVER Too


----------



## mavn

Big Texan said:


> New Stadium (US Soccer stadiums are starting to look like there Euro Cousins)


How about that for a Klagenfurt copy...


----------



## GunnerJacket

Hopefully things will proceed as planned and by about 2014 only New England and Seattle will be playing in NFL/college stadiums. If that comes to be then it's been suggested that will be the biggest financial turning point for the league and teams. Obviously a select few such as LA and Chicago are doing well, but getting everyone into their own "homes" will allow more and more funds to go towards the on field product.

BTW, the politicos in DC should be embarrassed for their treatment of United, especially in light of how they bent over for the Nationals new baseball stadium. I get the disparity in potential returns, but the public and political treatment of DC has been pathetic considering the quality of United's support and their contributions to the community. Done right I fully suspect DC could be hosting 25k+ crowds on a regular basis.


----------



## www.sercan.de

NY one is the best (maybe because i like Klagenfurt  )

How will the new one in Washington look like?

Capacites?


----------



## michał_

Benn said:


> You know I have wondered if they are considering buying the upper deck and roof from Klagenfurt, it looks almost identacle (though a little bit bigger than what they want) and it might be cheaper with steel prices what they are, although shipping wouldn't be cheap.


I don't think so. From what I read, WortherseeStadion was designed in such a way, that the roof will stay after changing capacity and will only be lowered a few meters.



www.sercan.de said:


> NY one is the best (maybe because i like Klagenfurt  )
> 
> How will the new one in Washington look like?


I hate it. Mostly because I like Klagenfurt  and it just seems such a soulles copy...

As for Washington, this is what I found on the Poplar Point project, but I don't think it's going to be built, the Poplar Point section of DC's website is gone...


----------



## lpioe

The future stadium of Real Salt Lake looks pretty nice.
Btw is there any specific reason why they have "Real" in the name?

And is the name of the team playing at Buck Shaw really "Earthquakes"?
That would be pretty stupid imo...


----------



## Wezza

mavn said:


> How about that for a Klagenfurt copy...


I was thinking the same thing! 

P.S. Are San Jose planning a new stadium?? The one they're playing out of is pretty poor.


----------



## El Mariachi

Some cool looking new stadiums. Not too bad considering how the league isnt at the same level as the other big leagues in the U.S/Canada. The new stadiums being developed will surely set a new standard in soccer specific stadiums in America. Red Bull Park, the new Salt Lake, Philly, and D.C. designs look pretty awesome.

Here is another one being developed in St. Louis. They are probally the next city to get a team after Philly and Seattle. The logo in particular is awesome.


----------



## michał_

Judge Phillip Banks said:


> I dont think those little balls are apart of the offical logo.


Here in Europe placing establishment time in crests is very common, so I thoguht it will stay that way. But let's hope you're right.

guys- what about the Wizards? I haven't seen them listed here. Is that proposal of a new stadium still on it's way to be built?











And two more questions:
1. What is up with the whitecaps stadium? I've already heard versions of 15k, 20k+ and 30k+ capacity for their proposed stadium. I know they are struggling with the city, but which of these sizes is the most probable or most recent?

2. Is there any attempt for an MLS franchise in Mexico? That would be very interesting... (is it even possible in legal ways?) I just ask cause the design of Estadio Nueva Corona looks so much like the MLS


----------



## El Mariachi

^yeah, ive seen some logos with the dates on them. The font for the date on that logo is pretty goofy!

1-I am not too familiar with Vancouver, but I think that stadium has hit a few roadblocks. Hopefully it gets built because it looks pretty cool.

2-I doubt the MLS would work in Mexico. They have their own league and teams with large fanbases and history. I reckon that the league would be scoffed at and hated if it tried to set up there. I personally like the MLS developing as a rival to their league. 

I think the MLS will probally try to continue expanding into other American cities and Canada. There are still many markets in these two countries that would support an MLS team. The only other places that I could ever see joining the MLS is San Juan and Kingston--but those would be a great stretch.


----------



## nyrmetros

www.redbullpark.com may have some pics of the harrison stadium for Metro..


----------



## CorliCorso

nyrmetros said:


> www.redbullpark.com may have some pics of the harrison stadium for Metro..


That looks much larger than 25,000.


----------



## Carrerra

Judge Phillip Banks said:


> Here is another one being developed in St. Louis. They are probally the next city to get a team after Philly and Seattle. The logo in particular is awesome.


You say St.Louis is likely to be a MLS franchise in the future after Seattle(2009) and Philadelphia(2010), but what does 2009 in the crest mean? The year the club is likely to be founded or the year the club is likely to join the league?


----------



## lpioe

wikipedia:


> St. Louis is currently without a Major League Soccer team, but is considered a leading candidate for expansion in 2009.


----------



## Carrerra

lpioe said:


> wikipedia:St. Louis is currently without a Major League Soccer team, but is considered a leading candidate for expansion in 2009.


Where is it in Wikipedia that St.Louis is a leading candidate for expansion in 2009? As far as I lookep up in there, 

*Expansion*

While no other cities have been named for the 17th and 18th spots, *St. Louis is considered the next frontrunner*. MLS has declared interest in Atlanta, Las Vegas, Montreal, Detroit, Portland, San Diego, Ottawa, Vancouver, a return to Miami, and a second team in New York

As you see, St.Louis is a most likely candidate for expansion to the 17th spot, but it cannot happen no earlier than 2010 because its predecessor Philadelphia is scheduled to join MLS in 2010


----------



## lpioe

It was in the article of St. Louis under sports.

Is expansion limited to 1 team per year?


----------



## TXLove

NFL-Reliant Stadium 
MLB-Petco Park 
NBA-Phillips Arena 
NHL-American Airlines Center 
NCAA football-Royal Memorial 
NCAA basketball-Allen Fieldhouse


----------



## berkshire royal

I found this on the MLS site regarding the new stadium in Philadelphia. 



> CHESTER, Pa. -- Before the shovels were ever placed into the ground, Keystone Sports and Entertainment, LLC -- the Major League Soccer Philadelphia 2010 ownership group -- understood there were hurdles to clear first.
> A big question was answered Tuesday when the ownership group announced the hiring of design and construction teams for its $115 million, 18,500-seat stadium to be built along the Chester waterfront in time for the 2010 season.
> 
> Rossetti Architects, an international design firm with offices in Detroit, Los Angeles, Denver, Newport Beach and Shanghai, and ICON Venue Group, based in Denver, will lead the design and construction of the stadium. Rossetti Architects will be designing the stadium while ICON will provide project management services to ensure that the stadium project is done on schedule and within its budget for the 2010 season.
> 
> "We are launching a premier MLS franchise and building a world class stadium so we wanted nothing less than the best owner's representative in the sports industry to oversee the design and construction of our newest local landmark and the best sport architecture firm to design it," Nick Sakiewicz, CEO and operating partner of Keystone Sports and Entertainment said in a statement. "Rossetti's noted innovative and stunning designs coupled with ICON's well-earned reputation as soccer-specific development experts are the perfect combination. They will be a tremendous compliment to our project team."
> 
> The stadium will be constructed at the foot of the Commodore Barry Bridge in Chester, just 13 miles from downtown Philadelphia. The multi-purpose stadium will also feature an 11,000-square-foot club, 38 suites ranging in size from eight to 21 seats (plus an owner's suite with 29 seats), a special 2,000-seat zone for the Sons of Ben supporters club and a party deck overlooking the field and river. The facility will have a waterfront park and plaza used not only for stadium entry, but also for city-sponsored events such as festivals.
> 
> Rossetti has partnered with ICON on three other MLS projects and one arena in the past including Red Bull Park in Harrison, N.J.; Toyota Park in Bridgeview, Ill.; Real Salt Lake in Sandy, Utah; and Citizens Business Bank Arena in Ontario, Calif. Rossetti also designed The Home Depot Center in Carson, Calif.
> 
> "It is truly a pleasure to partner with Keystone Sports and Entertainment to design the new home of MLS soccer in Pennsylvania," said Gino Rossetti, Chairman of Rossetti. "The team of ICON and Rossetti is a continuation of a longstanding relationship and one that has resulted in numerous successful MLS projects. It is extremely rewarding for us to work with Nick and his partners to realize the dream of a stadium in Chester which will anchor an exciting new development on the riverfront. We are passionate about designing projects that harmonize with the existing fabric of the community while also encouraging new investment and activity, and I believe that the stadium in Chester is a perfect example of this approach."
> 
> Rossetti also has designed professional, civic and collegiate sports venues across the country and around the world. Rossetti has professional sports facility experience with arenas and stadiums such as the USTA National Tennis Center in Flushing Meadows, N.Y. (home of the U.S. Open); Ford Field (Detroit Lions); Scotiabank Place in Ottawa; and the Palace of Auburn Hills, home of the NBA's Detroit Pistons.
> 
> "ICON and Rossetti have set the gold standard for MLS stadium design and project management with landmark projects for the Chicago Fire and Real Salt Lake," said Tim Romani, president of ICON Venue Group. "We are delighted to team up again with Gino and Matt and are excited to create another spectacular American soccer venue. Nick Sakiewicz and his partners at Keystone Sports and Entertainment have a grand vision for their new venue and ICON is proud to be on their team."
> 
> Romani will serve as principal-in-charge. Marc Farha, ICON senior vice president, will serve as project executive, and Steven Wronski, ICON director, will serve as senior project manager. In addition to the three MLS projects with Rossetti, Romani and his team have also worked on Dick's Sporting Goods Park in Commerce City, Colo. Other noteworthy ICON projects include the Pittsburgh Penguins' new arena, The O2 Arena in London, O2 World Arena in Berlin, Sprint Center in Kansas City, and Prudential Center in Newark, N.J.


I'm confused as to what this means. Does it mean that the original stadium design is being scrapped or does it mean that construction has started?


----------



## fenway58

*the best of the best*

mlb=fenway park 








nba= new boston garden 








nfl=gillette stadium








NHL= joe louis arena








NCCa football= Michigan Stadium








NCCA Basketball= Pauley Pavilion


----------



## neckbang

Football : Inveco Field, Denver
Baseball : Petco Park, SanDiego
Basketball : United Center, Chicago
Hockey : Pepsi Center, Denver


----------



## Canadian Chocho

What do you guys think is the best for MLS?


----------



## El Mariachi

Canadian Chocho said:


> What do you guys think is the best for MLS?


Got to go with the Home Depot Center. But that will change over time.


----------



## eMKay

NFL = University of Phoenix Stadium
MLB = Dodger Stadium
NBA = who gives a crap
NHL = Xcel Energy Center
I laugh at the Texans voting for AAC, and Joe Louis Arena? It's a dump.


----------



## Sea Toby

Football: the new Dallas Cowboys stadium
Baseball: the new Busch Field
Basketball/Hockey the new BOK Center 








Soccer: the new Liverpool Reds stadium


----------



## en1044

Sea Toby said:


>


Just a question, did you read the thread title?


----------



## en1044

delete


----------



## Sea Toby

Yes, but I like soccer as much as I enjoy baseball, football, basketball, and hockey. In my opinion good basketball and hockey arenas are the same. Therefore I added my fifth passion, soccer. Down here in Texas I dare say more children are playing soccer than hockey or basketball. We do have an MLS team here as well. Unfortunately, this soccer stadium design knocks my socks off and is better than anything in American soccer.

I wish to add one more, the best minor league baseball park is Dickey-Stephens Park in North Little Rock.


----------



## en1044

^ ok, but did you read it thoroughly


----------



## TU 'cane

NFL- Lambeau (rich history and winter time madness, Green Bay) or Texas Stadium ( Gotta love that hole in the roof, Irving)

MLB- Busch Stadium ( I just love it!, St. Louis )

NBA- Pepsi Center ( I've always loved that one, interesting design, Denver )

Other- BOk Center ( I am biased but this thing is unbelieveable, Tulsa )

Sea Toby, I also like the BOk Center and here is a better pic of it:


----------



## Big Texan

I do wish that the BOK Center was built in Dallas in place of the American Airlines Center. I love the American Airlines Center, but this would look beter in Victory. Good job Tulsa, it is a work of art.


----------



## Sea Toby

*Many new stadiums in AA Texas League*

HKS and HOK have designed some great new minor league parks recently. The Fenway Park of the South was finally replaced by the Arkansas Travelers recently. The new Dickey-Stephens Park in North Little Rock is a beauty in a somewhat dismal area, replacing old Ray Winder Field. One has to understand North Little Rock is basically a bedroom community of the much larger and sophisticated Little Rock with the downtown towers and the state capitol. North Little Rock reminds many of the railroad yards of East Saint Louis, Illinois. So when this beauty was built, the ballpark reminded many of railroad stations and depots around America. 

If you enjoy minor league baseball, a trip around the Texas AA League will do wonders to your health. Tulsa has the last of the old ballparks, and its not that old, but they are building a new ballpark on the east side of downtown. Once its done, every ballpark in the Texas League will have won awards for the best minor league ballpark during the past twenty years. From Midland, Corpus Christi, Frisco, North Little Rock, Springdale, Springfield, not to mention the beauty Tulsa will build soon. The Round Rock ballpark was built for a Texas AA League team, but its now a wonderful Pacific Coast AAA League ballpark as is the beauty in Oklahoma City built for AAA from the start. They are all great, but it seems the newer ones are getting better and better. 

Old Ray Winder, the old ballpark in Little Rock is still standing, and worth seeing. Its not like the older parks were deadbeats either. While they don't meet the new Minor League codes, the old ballparks in Wichita, Amarillo, Lubbock, El Paso, Shreveport, and Alexandria are still standing with other independent league using them. For the scantioned Texas League it was either build a new ballpark or lose your franchise. 










Who would have thought it? Baseball and trains go together.

A trip around the Texas League, continued. The new Whataburger Field near the port area of Corpus Christi. It resembles an old cotton warehouse nearby the Texas Aquarium, the old carrier Lexington, and a great view of the Hwy 181 bridge. 










San Antonio's Nelson Wolff's Stadium is another beauty in the Texas League.









And there is another AAA Pacific Coast League ballpark at Roundrock. Built for the AA Texas League, this ballpark moved up to be the home of a AAA franchise.









We won't forget Midland, the first to build a new ballpark. Its been renamed the First American Bank Ballpark.









The trip will take us to the new Dr. Pepper Field in Frisco. 









Traveling north to Oklahoma City's AT&T Bricktown Ballpark. That is a statue of Johnny Bench by the entrance. There are other statues of Mickey Mantle and Warren Spahn at the third base and first base entrances. Oklahoma City isn't in the Texas League, its in the Pacific Coast League as Roundrock's. 









Tulsa's older Driller Stadium. She will soon be replaced. While the design isn't in as yet, I fully expect something on the quality of the others in the Texas League, and better than Oklahoma City's Bricktown Ballpark. By the way, this is a tall order. Frankly, I love all of these ballparks.









Springdale's new Arvest Ballpark.









Springfield's Hammonds Field.


----------



## HUSKER

Really beutiful stadiums in texas., This is the perfect example that "BIG" does not means "Beautiful" by any means.


----------



## Sea Toby

The last World Cup baseball series held in the Caribbean was in Puerto Rico, which has a fine stadium the Montreal Expos once played a few home games before the franchise finally moved to Washington, D.C. I have heard that the Dominican Republic wants to hold the next Caribbean Word Cup games in a new stadium, but I am not sure whether it will happen. In the future, when Mexico holds these Caribbean World Cup games, will they host the games in Monterey's nice baseball stadium or will Mexico build a new ball park elsewhere? 

Monterey's ball park seats more fans than US minor league parks, some 27k. Do you have any photos, the best I can find is a satellite image from Google Map/Earth.


----------



## Inkdaub

Here's Qwest...with the SafeCo roof included for free.










My favorite MLB stadium is probably SafeCo but the M's are so terrible I'm too mad to select their place and instead will choose...

PNC Park in Pittsburgh










NBA I choose Staples










NCAA Basketball...The Pit looks small in this pic but seats 18,000 and was THE sporting venue while I was growing up.










NCAA Football...Husky Stadium


----------



## Iain1974

Michie Stadium - Army Black Knights

What a setting(!)


----------



## BoulderGrad

The totally biased list (Raised in Boston and DC, went to college in Colorado, and now live in Seattle for bias references) :

NFL Stadium: Qwest Field (Seattle, WA) Well worth the hit on the city's pocket book








(stadiums of NFL: http://www.stadiumsofnfl.com/posters.htm)

MLB Stadium: Fenway Park (Boston, MA) Always a classic








(from bonus productions website)

NHL and NBA Stadium: Verizon Center (Washington D.C.) Even better with the new scoreboard, and really spruced up Chinatown








(insidearenas.com) 









(wikipedia)

NCAA football Stadium: Folsom Field (U of Colorado, Boulder) Now that's a scenic setting!








(from Flickr)

NCAA Basketball Stadium: Comcast Arena (U of Maryland, College Park) Lets go Terps!








(flickr)


----------



## massp88

Seattlelife said:


> PNC Park in Pittsburgh and Petco Park in San Diego are easily my 2 favorite stadiums in the US.
> 
> Now if only a city would opt to not sell out the name.


It's such a rare situation in todays times for a pro sports stadium not have a sponsored name attached to it. It's a great way to make millions a year. With a team like the Pirates, that extra revenue is greatly needed.


----------



## Bobby3

Thank God Green Bay has held out. Can you imagine calling Lambeau Filed something like "Chase Bank Stadium"? Almost sinful to even think about.


----------



## tritown

^^ Better than Washington Mutual Stadium, right?


----------



## Bobby3

tritown said:


> ^^ Better than Washington Mutual Stadium, right?


Heh, true.


----------



## Seattlelife

tritown said:


> ^^ Better than Washington Mutual Stadium, right?


Is Safeco Field going to remain since Safeco is no more?


----------



## weava

football: arrowhead or Laumbeau









baseball: My favoarite park is hammons field, Springfield MO


----------



## SIC

*Beavers co-owner sees Portland as a two-sport star*
"There's a real benefit to cities in sports, and you need a public investment to make it happen," says Merritt Paulson, co-owner of the Portland Beavers and Portland Timbers. Paulson, here at PGE Park, is working on arranging $85 million in public financing to renovate PGE Park and build a new baseball stadium in the Lents neighborhood.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/10/beavers_coowner_sees_portland.html


----------



## Bobby3

*CHARLOTTE - American Legion Memorial Stadium (Roughly 24,000)*

I say roughly because it's not all-seated.

I don't have any pictures of it, but here's a map image.

No suites, those boxes are for coaches and media.

It was finished in 1936, making it Charlotte's oldest sports venue. It was recently in the news because it's being highly considered as the venue for the University of North Carolina at Charlotte's (49ers) football team because due to the economy they're facing a real mountain to build a new stadium.

You can probably tell by the satellite image, it's in pretty bad shape. But believe it or not, it does have some charm. The stone work separating the field from the stands is quite nice and the view of the city out the open end is really nice.

What can be done with it is pretty limited as it's bounded on one side by Charlotte's busiest road (and with other work going on in the area, a vital artery), and on another by a college that serves over 40,000 students.

I really don't know what to do with it. Actually, I'd tear it down, give the land to CPCC (the college) and build a 20-30,000 seat "green" stadium in Eastland as a replacement.


----------



## Bigmac1212

There's a university called the University of North Carolina Charlotte (Charlotte for athletics purposes) that's starting up a football team. They could use the stadium as their home field.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Work to start soon on the SSS in Philly:
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=598223&sec=mls&cc=5901


----------



## nyrmetros

great news


----------



## cubsfan

Red Bull Arena: 











Finally an MLS stadium done right.


----------



## Arist

I think the final result will tell us if it was done right.


----------



## cubsfan

Arist said:


> I think the final result will tell us if it was done right.


You're joking right? If they played in it as is it'd be better than the shite they've produced thus far.


----------



## SIC

cubsfan said:


> You're joking right? If they played in it as is it'd be better than the shite they've produced thus far.


Yeah, HDC is just terrible. *rollseyes*

Like they need a roof for more than shade in southern california.


----------



## Arist

you cant claim anything is great until we see the finished product.


----------



## cubsfan

SIC said:


> Yeah, HDC is just terrible. *rollseyes*
> 
> Like they need a roof for more than shade in southern california.


HDC is wonderful? *rollseyes*


----------



## cubsfan

Arist said:


> you cant claim anything is great until we see the finished product.


What is it exactly you think is going to go wrong? Will they forget to put the roof on? They'll accidently leave the seats out?


----------



## Arist

no point arguing my point when you have all already made up your mind.


----------



## KingmanIII

cubsfan said:


> HDC is wonderful? *rollseyes*





SIC said:


> Like they need a roof for more than shade in southern california.


..


----------



## nyrmetros

cubsfan said:


> Red Bull Arena:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally an MLS stadium done right.


Can't wait!


----------



## Overground

Lucky devils! For me that's going to be the best stadium in MLS.


----------



## BoulderGrad

How did they get Red Bull _Arena_ for a _stadium_?


----------



## JYDA

BoulderGrad said:


> How did they get Red Bull _Arena_ for a _stadium_?



I know at least here in Canada everyone thinks the word means "hockey rink" but it's exact definition is simply a sports venue surrounded by spectators. Arena is commonly used in Europe to refer to stadiums.


----------



## nyrmetros

any word on Philly ?


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Nope, none after the groundbreaking.


----------



## nyrmetros

ElVoltageDR said:


> Nope, none after the groundbreaking.


damn


----------



## ryebreadraz

ElVoltageDR said:


> Nope, none after the groundbreaking.


The stadium is in jeopardy. Here's a quote from the CEO of the ownership group, Nick Sakiewicz:

“I wish we could give you hard commitments today, but we’re not even sure the stadium is going to be built,” Sakiewiecz told the Delaware County Times. “If the markets tank next month, then we won’t build this thing. We’ll be out $15 million and everyone goes home.”

There are some other articles that make the situation seem better and argue that this is just posturing as they argue over tax zones and other things, but the rumors that ownership lost a big chunk of money in the economic downturn, combined with this quote is worrisome.


----------



## tritown

ryebreadraz said:


> The stadium is in jeopardy. Here's a quote from the CEO of the ownership group, Nick Sakiewicz:
> 
> “I wish we could give you hard commitments today, but we’re not even sure the stadium is going to be built,” Sakiewiecz told the Delaware County Times. “If the markets tank next month, then we won’t build this thing. We’ll be out $15 million and everyone goes home.”
> 
> There are some other articles that make the situation seem better and argue that this is just posturing as they argue over tax zones and other things, but the rumors that ownership lost a big chunk of money in the economic downturn, combined with this quote is worrisome.


From what I hear, I wouldn't read too much into that.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

You can always check here: http://www.earthcam.com/clients/redbullarena/


----------



## Ganis

ElVoltageDR said:


> You can always check here: http://www.earthcam.com/clients/redbullarena/


thanks, wow, great progress


----------



## JYDA

New pics of Philadelphia's stadium.



















Not bad for 18,500 capacity. However I don't like the field level entranceways


----------



## Grasshopper Zurich

looks nice


but a soccer-stadium needs a complete roof over all stands


----------



## KingmanIII

Grasshopper Zurich said:


> looks nice
> 
> 
> but a soccer-stadium needs a complete roof over all stands


The original design did have one.


----------



## Ganis

Grasshopper Zurich said:


> but a soccer-stadium needs a complete roof over all stands


why?


----------



## Bobby3

I understand costs are a factor, but I wish they'd incorporate some local elements into these stadiums rather than the cookie-cutter design they're using.


----------



## Ganis

all US Soccer stadiums will be considered a let down after Red Bull Arena is finished.


----------



## Ganis

Bobby3 said:


> I understand costs are a factor, but I wish they'd incorporate some local elements into these stadiums rather than the cookie-cutter design they're using.


you know, for philly....that stadium looks real....Philly. Looks like the same bricks on constitution hall, has a college feel almost.


----------



## hngcm

Huge letdown after the first couple of renders came out...


----------



## Benn

Yeah the original design was a lot better, seems like a very poor decision, although this is probably a fair bit cheaper.


----------



## JYDA

Red Bull Arena update:


----------



## Ganis

the Concert Stages can be removed for stands after soccer becomes more popular in the USA. until then they provide nice out door venues for music festivals.


----------



## nyrmetros

Good call on the Metrostars - Ottawa stadium.........


----------



## tonight

kay:


----------



## nyrmetros

Wow, that new Houston stadium looks terrible. Yea it's better than nothing...............


----------



## ElVoltageDR

^Any pics of it? Haven't seen it.


----------



## Ganis

ElVoltageDR said:


> ^Any pics of it? Haven't seen it.


Its a TRue Bowl with a Trap like wrap around it, will sit about 21,000. Rough renderings so far. 
http://www.khou.com/video/index.html?nvid=328757&shu=1

NO STAGE THOUGH!!!!!!!


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Hmm, I'll wait to see a final design. Looks way to basic to be anything near to a final design.


----------



## Ganis

*HOUSTON - New Dynamo Stadium (21,000)*

*Houston Dynamo*










MLS Championship
2006, 2007

Possibly the most popular team in the USA.

http://www.khou.com/video/index.html?nvid=328757&shu=1


----------



## ryebreadraz

Ganis said:


> Possibly the most popular team in the USA.


Sorry, but the Galaxy are easily the most popular club. Even before Beckham joined and left the club, the Galaxy were leading the league in attendance year after year.


----------



## Houstonian

I posted these in the wrong area, thanks Ganis for telling me.

Renderings





















Thesite is already cleared; is located in the Warehouse Discrict.










The rendering of the stadium looks like a space ship (UFO whatever you call it) and it will probaly light up the area; send property values up.


----------



## GunnerJacket

a) I think Houston might be the most infamous team, given the level of franchise gifted them. But that's nit-picking, and besides...

b) ...I'd say no MLS team has a level of popularity worth bragging about! 

- - - - - 

As for the stadium, good for Houston. Their fans have stepped up and deserve a proper home. I'll share a toast when they break ground.

:cheers:


----------



## ryebreadraz

Keep in mind that these are just initial renderings. Right now it's a very bare bones design and doesn't even have a press box or suites. My guess is the final designs will have a better facade, plus the press box and suites. If they go ahead with this design then it will probably be the worst SSS out there, but when it's all said and done, I think it will be an improved design that doesn't make it the best SSS yet still on par with the others around the league. What they definitely have going for them is a great downtown location though.


----------



## El Mariachi

GunnerJacket said:


> b) ...I'd say no MLS team has a level of popularity worth bragging about!
> 
> :


ain't that the truth. 

Its a rough looking rendering--but it looks pretty futuristic and a good step in the right direction.


----------



## Houstonian

Zorba said:


> I wouldn't say Houston Dynamo are the most popular team in the MLS. It is hard to judge at this point in time anyways being that the stadium situation in all MLS cities are not the same. There are teams with beautiful new soccer specific stadiums (LA, Salt Lake, etc...) which attract many fans by themselves, and then there are clubs like DC United which probably has the most loyal fans in the MLS, which is due in most part to them being the most successful team in the leagues history.
> 
> In any case, I like the design for the stadium. The exterior looks especially nice, and in comparison to those of other MLS stadiums, probably more expensive. Where is te financial backing coming from for the stadium?
> 
> All in all, good for the MLS to have more of these new stadiums in the league.
> 
> I just wish some of the clubs would change their names to stop trying to sound sppealing to various ethnic minorities in their cities (*Real *Salt Lake,* Chivas *USA, Houston *Dynamo*....:lol


Here's the info on the stadium...



> http://www.khou.com/video/index.html?nvid=328757
> 
> HOUSTON—On the east side of downtown sits the future site of the new Dynamo stadium.
> 
> “*We think it’s about an $80 to $85 million stadium. (It will have) 21,000 seats, but nothing fancy though.* It’s very functional,” said Dynamo GM Oliver Luck.
> 
> Many say that the stadium will be functional enough to keep in Houston a championship team that has made noises about moving into the suburbs. It’s hoped it will be functional enough to keep the fans happy.
> 
> “It’s gonna be much more fan friendly in terms of concessions and restrooms and some of those things that we just don’t really have over at Robertson Stadium. Most importantly, it’s going to be much easier to get to in terms of the parking and access. *A rail line will literally run right next to the stadium*,” said Luck.
> 
> The new stadium is expected to encourage new development. When it’s finished, it’s expected to increase the property values of everything around it.
> 
> It’s reported that after the Dynamo moves in, that extra property tax money would kick $20 million into the project.
> 
> Reports indicate that the city is already in the game, but county commissioners still have to approve the deal.
> 
> “No one’s taxes are increased. It’s just taking the increased taxes, some of that money and allocating that to help build the stadium,” said Houston council member Peter Brown.
> 
> TSU will also pass along $2.5 million for the right to play its football games there, said TSU Athletic Director Charles McClelland.
> 
> “We’re gonna’ have our own locker rooms. We’re gonna share the sales for concessions, on ticket sales so it’s gonna’ be the home of the Texas Southern University fighting tigers,” said McClelland.
> 
> *The players should take to the new field in the first part of 2011.*


Looks fancy to me in those renderings.



Judge Phillip Banks said:


> ain't that the truth.
> 
> Its a rough looking rendering--but it looks pretty futuristic and a good step in the right direction.



It looks like a spaceship that just landed on the ground imo lol. :nuts:


----------



## hngcm

that's beyond bland...at least put a tarp roof or something


----------



## Ganis

*HOUSTON - New Dynamo Stadium (21,000)*

*Houston Dynamo*










MLS Championship
2006, 2007

Possibly the most popular team in the USA.

http://www.khou.com/video/index.html?nvid=328757&shu=1


----------



## Ganis

Stop moving it. Its a proposed stadium. Leave it where it belongs.


----------



## www.sercan.de

Capacity is under 30,000 
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=741492


----------



## wearethefuture

Didn't know what thread to put this in but i came across this;

Red Bull Arena Update: 10th February.































@ http://www.wcbs880.com/pages/3839032.php?imageGalleryXRefId=937465#imgXR


----------



## Benn

It will be the same difference, the back row there is as far as anywhere in America if not the world. The scoreboard will help, but unless they put in seating over the lower deck the sightlines will be awful. Lucas Oil Field in Indy is the only stadium with the Final Four seriously taken into consideration, and the only way to proguce legit sightlines would be to either have a retractable lower level or be able to drop the field 15'-20'.


----------



## hkskyline

*Bobcat Stadium expansion put on hold, potential donors feeling economic crunch*
27 May 2009

BOZEMAN, Mont. (AP) - The start of Montana State's planned expansion of Bobcat Stadium has been delayed by at least a year due to the economic crunch, athletics director Peter Fields said.

"People feel like we have a good project and that we've laid out a good plan," Fields said. "They want to be involved but they want to see what's going on with their own economic futures before they invest in something else."

The first $9 million phase of the project calls for construction of 38 SkySuites on two levels above the existing east grandstand.

The entire project, which Fields has said could take as long as 20 years and $100 million to complete, includes replacing the east grandstand, adding an academic center, an indoor practice facility, improved strength training and sports medicine facilities and upgrades to other athletics facilities.

Artificial turf was installed at Bobcat Stadium last summer.

Fields said the athletics department will not seek state funds or student fees to help pay for the work, he said.

Bobcat football coach Rob Ash said school officials will be working hard to raise the money.

"Things have slowed down a little bit," he said. "Charitable giving is down across the country. It's an issue, but we're not going to sit back and wait around. We're going to actively pursue the donors that have to help us for the stadium project.

"I personally want to continue to actively talk about the indoor practice facility," he added. "I still think that's what we need here more than anything else. It would benefit all student-athletes, not just football."


----------



## hkskyline

*So long: Detroit board OKs leveling Tiger Stadium *
2 June 2009

DETROIT (AP) - What remains of historic Tiger Stadium will be demolished after the city rejected a $33.4 million proposal by a nonprofit group to preserve and renovate the old ballpark.

The Economic Development Corp. board voted 7-1 on Tuesday to authorize the complete demolition of the stadium, said Waymon Guillebeaux, executive vice president of project management for the Detroit Economic Growth Corp., a public-private group that staffs the EDC.

"We cannot have a partially demolished building remaining indefinitely," Guillebeaux told The Associated Press.

A nonprofit group trying to save the stadium blasted the decision, saying it wasn't told a vote was coming. One leader called the board's decision "shortsighted."

"We are obviously going to do everything we can -- including calling on all of our friends and supporters -- to try to get this decision reversed," said Gary Gillette, board member and secretary of the Old Tiger Stadium Conservancy.

The ballpark at the corner of Michigan and Trumbull became home to the Tigers in 1912, when it opened as Navin Field. The beloved stadium hosted 87 years of baseball, three All-Star games, Babe Ruth's 700th career home run in 1934 and even the Detroit Lions from 1938 to 1974.

The city, which owns the stadium, searched for ways to develop the site after the Tigers departed for nearby Comerica Park after the 1999 season. After a few years, officials began to talk about demolishing the building to make way for new development.

Wrecking crews finally went to work last June, and much of the stadium was torn down by fall. But the Detroit City Council voted 5-3 last October to spare -- for the time being -- a remaining wedge stretching from dugout to dugout. Council members said they wanted to give stadium advocates, led by the conservancy, more time to raise funds for a proposed redevelopment of the surviving structure.

The group submitted a plan earlier this year to renovate the stadium into a commercial building with a working ballfield for youth and amateur baseball. The project had an estimated price tag of $33.4 million, much of which would be covered by historical and other tax credits. A $3.8 million federal earmark also was approved for the project.

"In terms of some of their plans, they met our approval," Guillebeaux said. "The biggest issue was the funding."

Guillebeaux said the conservancy's proposal relied on plans to raise funds rather than money, loans and credits already in hand.

"If they came in with a solid, well-funded plan, I'm sure we would discuss it," he said. "But at this point they have been afforded every opportunity to provide that."

The conservancy has struggled to raise money "in the teeth of the worst economic situation since the Great Depression," Gillette said, but progress is being made and the group is optimistic it can reach its fundraising goals.

Gillette said other development projects in Detroit seem to be given "the benefit of the doubt" when it comes to funding benchmarks, but the stadium project is falling victim to the DEGC's "blind lust for demolition. Their idea of how to redevelop Detroit is to demolish it."

Guillebeaux said negotiations already are under way with the two Detroit-area companies that carried out last year's partial demolition under a joint venture allowing them to sell the stadium's steel and other components for scrap. The city didn't pay for the project but forfeited a $300,000 payment from the companies by not authorizing the complete demolition of the ballpark.

That isn't an option this time around, Guillebeaux said, given a sharp decline in scrap prices in the last year. Demolishing the rest of the stadium likely will cost the city about $400,000, with $300,000 covered by money put up by the conservancy in advance, in case their plans for the site were rejected or fell through, he said.

Guillebeaux said demolition will begin as soon as possible.


----------



## Ganis

everything must go at some point


----------



## Scba

The new CWS ballpark soon to be under construction in Omaha officially named TD Ameritrade Park. Wish I could make a thread for it...


----------



## ryebreadraz

Scba said:


> The new CWS ballpark soon to be under construction in Omaha officially named TD Ameritrade Park. Wish I could make a thread for it...


A college baseball stadium thread that you can address it all in:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=839768


----------



## Scba

ryebreadraz said:


> A college baseball stadium thread that you can address it all in:
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=839768


True, but I meant a development thread, since it'll be u/c for a few years.


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## Ganis

I think there needs to be an area for threads for stadiums under 30,000 that are IMPORTANT! US Soccer Stadiums and College Baseball Championship Stadium.


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## Scba

Maybe I can get by on the loophole that it expands to 35,000. Can't hurt to try.


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## hkskyline

*Nets CEO defends decision to jettison design of architect Frank Gehry *
10 June 2009

NEW YORK (AP) - The chief executive of the Nets defended his team's decision to jettison architect Frank Gehry's design for a new arena in Brooklyn and replace it with a more conventional and less costly option.

The team announced last week that the Barclays Center in Brooklyn will be based on a design by Ellerbe Becket.

Nicolai Ouroussoff, the architecture critic of The New York Times, wrote Tuesday that the switch was "a shameful betrayal of the public trust, one that should enrage all those who care about this city." He called the new plan "a colossal, spiritless box" and said "its low-budget, no-frills design embodies the crass, bottom-line mentality that puts personal profit above the public good."

"Unfortunately the world we live in today is very different than what it was three or four years ago when we hired Frank," Nets chief executive Brett Yormark said Wednesday at Street & Smith's SportsBusiness Journal's conference on sports facilities and franchises.

"The world is more simplistic. It's not as grand and glitzy. And I'm not sure that design would have been appropriate right now, as much as we all loved it. I think the design that we have now is very appropriate. It speaks to Brooklyn."

Also at the conference:

--Mark Lamping, chief executive of the company building a new stadium for the Giants and Jets in East Rutherford, N.J., said he'd like to have a naming-rights deal before the building opens next year but sounded unsure whether he will.

--Mets executive vice president Dave Howard defended his team's $400 million, 20-year deal with Citigroup Inc. for Citi Field.

The Nets say they must break ground for the arena before the end of the year. Barclays PLC had the right to terminate its naming rights deal when construction failed to begin by last December, according to Yormark, but decided to give a one-year grace period.

Yormark said that despite the recession, there was still sufficient resources in the area to sell luxury suites.

"There is so much money in New York, and people still have it and made lots of it over the years," he said. "In today's market, if you can create that value proposition, they will spend it. And yeah, you can't take it for granted anymore and they're not out there leading with their wallet, but if there's good justification, people have disposable income in this market. There are 20 million people, and you can be successful."

However, he has learned from the empty premium seats at new Yankee Stadium, which are priced at $500 to $2,625.

"In some cases they have been scrutinized unfairly, in most cases unfairly," he said. "But I think what it has taught me and I think just people in general in the industry is the power or PR and how to manage PR and how to try to redefine perception. I just think it's made me look at that a little differently because you want to control the message in the market before the message is controlled for you."

New Jersey Devils owner Jeff Vanderbeek, in a later segment, repeated the Nets would be welcome at the Prudential Center in Newark if the Brooklyn deal falls through.

"We've always said that they would. We'd certainly welcome them with open arms," he said.

At the Meadowlands, talks with Allianz SE ended last September after Holocaust survivors and football fans said seeing the company's name on the stadium would be a constant reminder of the company's ties to Nazi Germany.

"The Jets and the Giants will be playing in this facility for a long, long time," Lamping said. "You can't force the economics of the deal in year one or year two simply because the market may not be where it needs to be."

As for Citi Field, Reps. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, and Ted Poe, R-Texas, urged Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner to demand that Citigroup cancel the deal because of $45 billion the bank received in government aid. Six New York House members asked the Obama administration to ignore the complaints.

"I just found that to be a very unfortunate, you know, politicizing of the issue," Howard said. "In this country, a contract is a contract. Congress does not have the power or the right to dictate that a contract should be breached. That to me is very offensive from a policy standpoint."

Howard said empty seats were not a big issue at Citi Field, where the top ticket price averages $495.

"I think we've been unfairly sort of tendered in this discussion," he said. "Where we see the issue for us is at the sort of I would say the fringes of the changes in the price points. ... It's not behind home plate. For us, it's not above the dugouts that's an issue. It's sort of in the fringes of the outfield, the fringes on the club level."

------

AP Sports Writer Rachel Cohen contributed to this report.


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## lpioe

^^ Any renders of the old and the new project?


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## Ganis

I thought everyone would be happy since they weren't getting those goofy towers that came with it.


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## Benn

No, the initial render shown in the New York times looked like they were just going to plop down the Conseco Fieldhouse on Atlantic and Flatbush, which is really lazy, and not addressing the site specifics at all. Say what you will about Gehry's plan (I personally liked it) at least he spent some time analyzing what would really serve the area the best, not just the team. I know they are on something of a budget now ($400-500 million), but they could at the very least do something original.


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## TexasBoi

en1044 said:


> yeah...thats when Jerry went the other way and sold his soul for three more...
> 
> And the Devil said, "From now on ye shall play with crackhheads and convicts."" And it was good.
> 
> In Dallas.


This is rich coming from a ******* fan who has Satan himself as their owner.:lol:


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## en1044

TexasBoi said:


> This is rich coming from a ******* fan who has Satan himself as their owner.:lol:


and my team affiliation matters because?

I'll be the first to say FedEx is a piece of shit.

BTW, we all know Jerry is the real Satan.


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## Ganis

WonderlandPark said:


> Nice stadium. Hope the visiting teams like it more
> sorry, can't stand the Cowboys.
> 
> After the Giants/Jets, I wonder how long it will be before another new NFL stadium gets built?


Minnesota
San Francisco/ Oakland 
San Diego
Washington
Buffalo
St Louis


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## Nordeaster

http://www.minnescraper.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=247&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=2040

Here is a link to minnescraper.com. There are updated pics of the new Twins stadium under construction in downtown Minneapolis.


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## ryebreadraz

Ganis said:


> Minnesota
> San Francisco/ Oakland
> San Diego
> Washington
> Buffalo
> St Louis


There's also the possibility of a stadium in Los Angeles. A lot of possibilites wrt to NFL stadiums right now.


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## hkskyline

*Official: Pontiac Silverdome, the former home of Detroit Lions, may be auctioned off *
26 June 2009

PONTIAC, Mich. (AP) - The former home of the Detroit Lions may be headed to the auction block.

Emergency Financial Manager Fred Leeb says attempts to sell the Pontiac Silverdome have not been successful, and he's prepared to hand it over to an auctioneer if it will speed up the sale of the empty landmark.

Leeb tells The Oakland Press that Pontiac will continue negotiating with potential buyers, but the Detroit suburb also will set up a worldwide auction.

The city spends about $1.5 million annually to maintain the structure.

Pontiac has tried repeatedly to sell the 80,000-seat domed stadium since the Lions left in 2002 to move to Ford Field in Detroit.


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## Scba

*OMAHA - TD Ameritrade Park (24,000-35,000)*

TD Ameritrade Park, opening 2011, replaces aging Rosenblatt Stadium (Built 1948, 25,500) as the main baseball facility in Omaha as the new home of the College World Series, passing the torch as the largest baseball stadium in the US without a Major League team. The CWS will be played here for at least 20 years, but the AAA Omaha Royals, who shared Rosenblatt, will move to a smaller stadium in Sarpy County. It's expected that TD Ameritrade could attract minor league All-Star games and major league exhibitions, or serve as the emergency neutral-site or temporary home for an MLB team.


Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Tenants: College World Series, Creighton University, Other (Not Omaha Royals)
Construction begins: 2009
Targeted completion: 2011
Cost: $128 million
Capacity: 24,000 permanent, expands to 35,000 for major events (CWS, MLB games)
26 luxury suites, 1,000 club seats




























Current site:










http://www.tdameritradeparkomaha.com/site/alt-home.asp


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## Scba

The rule is that a stadium must have a 30k+ capacity, and though permanent is only officially 24k, I'd expect 30k to be broken easily once the grounds open for the CWS.


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## Bigmac1212

Sheesh, why not call it Rosenblatt Stadium II?


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## Scba

Bigmac1212 said:


> Sheesh, why not call it Rosenblatt Stadium II?


For that much money, on a non-MLB stadium, gotta have a corporate sponsor.


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## Ganis

I like it. Omaha Is really turning into a beautiful city.


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## ryebreadraz

I definitely don't love that they're leaving Rosenblatt. It's a great place with so much history and it's not a bad place to watch a game. That said, if the NCAA was demanding that the city build a new stadium to keep the College World Series, then they did the right thing. While the stadium is part of the history, it's the city of Omaha and their people that make the CWS truly special. This stadium looks solid. Not great, but it will more than get the job done.


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## El Mariachi

thats a sharp looking stadium.

I would love to see Omaha get an MLB team. Its not going to happen, but it seems like a nice city to have professional baseball.


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## weava

It seems to large for Creighton but if they do play there it will be by far the nicest home field in the MVC which is saying something since WSU and MSU have nice stadiums for college teams.


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## KingmanIII

El Mariachi said:


> thats a sharp looking stadium.
> 
> I would love to see Omaha get an MLB team. Its not going to happen, but it seems like a nice city to have professional baseball.


Me, too. I'm curious to see where they'd fit another 10,000 seats.


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## Scba

KingmanIII said:


> Me, too. I'm curious to see where they'd fit another 10,000 seats.


Yeah, I don't see how it's possible with the renderings they have now, unless it's included.


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## Bobby3

weava said:


> It seems to large for Creighton but if they do play there it will be by far the nicest home field in the MVC which is saying something since WSU and MSU have nice stadiums for college teams.


They already have the best college soccer stadium, so why not?


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## Scba

Aaaaaand back in the general thread. Lovely. Because it was causing such a problem as a standalone thread. Seating capacity for the CWS games WILL BE over thirty thousand.


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## hkskyline

*Fee for tours of new $1.15 billion Cowboys Stadium in Arlington, Texas *
26 June 2009

ARLINGTON, Texas (AP) - Fans concerned about affording to see a game or a show at the new $1.15 billion Cowboys Stadium in Arlington can still check out the place. For a fee.

Tours began Friday at the retractable-roof venue of the Dallas Cowboys, the same day as thousands of hopefuls for the Fox TV show "American Idol" showed up for auditions.

Stadium tours, at $15 for adults and $12 for children, will be conducted every half-hour and last up to 75 minutes.

The tour includes the high-tech scoreboard control room, the press box, the Cowboys locker room and limited field access.


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## hkskyline

*Wayne County judge sides with city, allows demolition of historic Tiger Stadium to resume *
8 June 2009

DETROIT (AP) - Tiger Stadium's stay of execution turned out to be a brief one as a judge ruled Monday that demolition of the historic ballpark could begin again.

Wayne County Circuit Judge Prentis Edwards rejected a request by the Old Tiger Stadium Conservancy to issue a preliminary injunction preventing further demolition of the stadium. He also lifted a temporary restraining order issued Friday afternoon that halted work begun just hours earlier.

Edwards agreed with attorneys for the city that the nonprofit group likely can't raise the funds for a proposed $33.4 million redevelopment project, noting there is little financing in hand after years of work.

"It appears here that the plaintiff has been given every opportunity to succeed with this project," Edwards said after about an hour of arguments, but the conservancy has "simply failed to come up with the requisite funding."

The prospects for success in the future, Edwards said, are "very, very dim."

Crews were expected to resume tearing down what remains of Tiger Stadium "immediately," Waymon Guillebeaux, executive vice president for project management and contract services at the Detroit Economic Growth Corp., said after the hearing.

Much of the ballpark, which opened in 1912 as Navin Field, was demolished last year after sitting vacant since the Detroit Tigers departed for Comerica Park in 1999. But a section extending from dugout to dugout was left standing while the conservancy sought to raise money to transform the stadium into a commercial building with a working ballfield.

Michael Myckowiak, attorney for the conservancy, argued in court Monday that the city's Economic Development Corp. has acted in "bad faith" in its dealings with the conservancy. He blasted the vote last week by the EDC board to level the stadium, saying the conservancy wasn't told a decision was imminent.

"It's our belief that what went on ... was a sham," he said.

Myckowiak asked for more time to raise money, saying the group has paid for security at the site through the end of June.

But Frederick Berg, attorney for the EDC, said the conservancy had been given plenty of time but simply didn't come up with the tax credits, loans and other financing necessary for the redevelopment project.

"They don't have them today, they won't have them tomorrow and it's not likely that they're going to have them any time soon," he said.

Stopping demolition now will cost the city $150,000, in addition to the $400,000 already being paid to the demolition contractor to carry out the work, Berg said.

"There are a multitude of economic reasons why the EDC believes the time has come and gone for the conservancy to make its case," he said.

That position was condemned was condemned by Gary Gillette, the conservancy's secretary.

"Every major development project in the city of Detroit is behind schedule or many have been canceled. ... I want to know why we're the ones singled out, that when we're behind schedule because of the worst economic conditions since the Great Depression, we have to be killed off with a bullet to the head in the middle of the night -- or in the morning at the EDC meeting -- while other people are continuing to work with the city," Gillette said outside the courtroom.

"This is unconscionable and unwarranted in the extreme," he added.

Conservancy leaders appealed to Mayor Dave Bing to intervene to save the ballpark. But Bing said in a statement that while he remained "sensitive to the concerns of those who wish to preserve Tiger Stadium," he would "honor" the judge's decision.

Conservancy president Thomas Linn said the group would not appeal Edwards' decision.


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## KingmanIII

Scba said:


> Aaaaaand back in the general thread. Lovely. Because it was causing such a problem as a standalone thread. Seating capacity for the CWS games WILL BE over thirty thousand.


Yeah, some of the rules here could use a bit of tweaking.


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## Ganis

Scba said:


> Aaaaaand back in the general thread. Lovely. Because it was causing such a problem as a standalone thread. Seating capacity for the CWS games WILL BE over thirty thousand.


I know. This is Bull Shit. we need threads for smaller stadiums.


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## hkskyline

*Happy birthday, Forbes Field - NL's first baseball palace opened 100 years ago *
29 June 2009

PITTSBURGH (AP) - Roberto Clemente's first hit and Babe Ruth's parting shot occurred within the confines of the most spacious ballpark any major league baseball team called home.

So did Bill Mazeroski's 1960 World Series Game 7 homer, one so improbable, so magical that it seems certain to live in baseball's memory bank as long as the sport exists.

The first fireworks night and last tripleheader? Chuck Noll's first home game as the Steelers' coach? The first live broadcasts of major league baseball and college football? Forbes Field was home to all of that and much more during 61 eventful years that helped launch not one but, eventually, two ballpark-building construction binges.

Baseball's modern ballpark era was ushered in 100 years ago Tuesday when Forbes Field was christened in the Oakland section of Pittsburgh. Today, its treasures live on in a modern-day gem named PNC Park that copies much of Forbes' coziness, charm and quirkiness.

Forbes Field was the National League's first modern concrete-and-steel park, a massive-for-its-era structure that towered above a picturesque city park and was so innovative that many of its touches can still be found in ballparks from coast to coast.

While the Philadelphia Athletics' Shibe Park (later, Connie Mack Stadium) predated Forbes by two months, nothing in baseball's relatively brief history to that time rivaled the two-tiered palace that Pirates owner Barney Dreyfuss dedicated before a Cubs-Pirates game on June 30, 1909. Fittingly, the Cubs will honor the anniversary by playing in Pittsburgh on Tuesday night.

Built so the Pirates could abandon flood- and fire-prone Exposition Park, Forbes cost approximately $2 million for land and construction -- about $48 million today -- or more than three times Shibe's estimated cost. The opening day crowd of 30,338 was five times larger than for Game 5 of the Cubs-Tigers World Series the year before.

"This is the happiest day of my life," Dreyfuss said then, albeit he was initially criticized for building his baseball showplace a 10-minute trolley ride away from downtown.

Five days later, Dreyfuss invited fans attending an Independence Day doubleheader to stay for a post-game fireworks show. More than 40,000 did, and another tradition was born.

To preserve baseball's best grass playing field, Pirates manager Fred Clarke designed and patented the first infield tarp. The ballpark also was the first with elevators and padded outfield walls, later, and the batting helmet was invented there by Pirates executive Charlie Muse.

Dreyfuss disliked the long ball, and it showed in every one of Forbes' nooks and crannies.

The left-field line was 360 feet from home plate, center field was nearly a bus ride away at 457 feet. The grandstands towered 85 feet above the right field wall, a huge scoreboard had to be cleared in left.

The Pirates were so certain no player could hit a ball out to center, the batting cage was stowed inside the playing field during games. It remained there even after Dick Stuart carried it with a 1959 drive.

As cavernous as a national park, 35,000-seat Forbes Field didn't play host to a single no-hitter during the more than 4,700 major league games played there, including the last tripleheader in 1920, when the Reds took two of three. All that open space helped the Pirates' Chief Wilson hit a record 36 triples in 1912.

Forbes' first tape-measure drive was Ruth's 714th and last, a May 26, 1935, shot for the Boston Braves that was his third of the day and the first to clear Forbes' right-field roof.

"I didn't think anyone could hit a ball that hard," Pirates pitcher Guy Bush said.

He should have known better. Ruth and Lou Gehrig put on such a home run exhibition during a 1927 World Series workout that it clearly intimidated the home team, and the Yankees promptly swept the Pirates.

"That World Series was over before it started," Ruth said.

The 1960 Series was much different. Led by the Ruth and Gehrig of the day, Mickey Mantle and Roger Maris, the Yankees were big favorites who flashed their prodigious power during victories of 16-3, 10-0 and 12-0. The Pirates countered by winning all the close games, and Mazeroski finished it off on Oct. 13, 1960, with the only homer to end a World Series Game 7.

Forbes Field was more than baseball, although the Negro Leagues' Homestead Grays and Pittsburgh Crawfords also occasionally staged games there. The Steelers played there from 1933 until the mid-1960s, returning for a Noll-coached 1969 exhibition against the Bengals. Pitt football and the pro soccer Phantoms also briefly called it home.

For all of Forbes' charms -- seats close to the action, no playing field signage, a right field screen that Clemente peppered for 15-plus seasons with line drives -- the so-called House of Thrills was showing its age when it closed on June 28, 1970. Fittingly, Mazeroski made the final putout during a doubleheader sweep of, yes, the Cubs.

The entrances were narrow and dimly lit, the bathrooms tiny, onsite parking was nonexistent and, remarkably, a ballpark located near the Pitt and Carnegie Mellon campuses did not sell beer.

Still, Clemente marveled as Forbes shut down, "I spent half my life there."

Not long after Forbes was razed to make way for the Pitt Law School, Pittsburghers who initially embraced Three Rivers Stadium's spacious concourses and comfortable seats began longing again for a baseball-only park with grass, fewer seats and better sight lines.

Once baseball's retro-era ballpark boon began with Baltimore's Camden Yards in 1992, nearly every one of the 21 ballparks built since has incorporated qualities first seen in Forbes Field and Shibe Park. PNC Park, opened in 2001, copied Forbes' rectangular light towers, picturesque skyline, left-field bleachers and expansive outfield. The section of left-field wall over which Mazeroski's homer traveled was erected behind PNC's right-field stands.

In Oakland, Forbes' center-field wall still stands, and home plate is preserved under glass. A historical marker denotes Mazeroski's homer.

Pittsburgh gave up once on Forbes Field. It's much more reluctant to let go of baseball's first crown jewel this time.


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## hkskyline

*Gamecock men's and women's soccer to play on upgraded surface at South Carolina's Graveyard *
30 June 2009

COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) - South Carolina is installing a state-of-art grass field and drainage system at Gamecock soccer's Stone Stadium.

The renovations are expected to be completed by August and cost about $462,000, according to athletic administrator Kevin O'Connell who oversees department construction.

Men's coach Mark Berson said the improvements will make the surface one of the best and most reliable in the country.

There have been instances in the past where the field was unplayable.

Women's coach Shelley Smith remembered playing Florida in a 2006 game as the rain kept falling. It went into overtime and puddles of standing water squished up with every free kick and contested ball.

"We just decided to call it," Smith said, the game ending at 1-1.

Berson said home NCAA contests against American in 1985 and Duke in 1995, both 2-0 losses, were marred by bad weather. "You don't want to lose the home field advantage," he said.

The revamped field will have a sand base and a complex, modern drainage system. The bumps and ruts of the past will be gone, replaced by a laser-graded, grass showpiece. The completed surface should easily hold up to the 20 or so games played by the two teams during the fall season, Berson said.

The project should be finished a few weeks before the men play an exhibition at home against High Point on Aug. 25. The women first play there against College of Charleston on Aug. 27.

The upgrade is the latest in South Carolina's plan to overhaul its aging athletic complex. The athletic department opened a $35.6 million baseball stadium in February. Directly across from the stadium, nicknamed The Graveyard because it's alongside the House of Peace cemetery, is the rising $13 million Dodie Anderson Academic Enrichment Center.

Athletic director Eric Hyman has plans for more than $150 million in additional improvements expected to reshape most sports offices, practice fields and competition venues.

In April, university trustees approved $49.9 million for athletic projects, including a 12-court tennis center, an administrative building and a parking garage.

Berson, who began the NCAA program in 1978, remembers during that inaugural soccer year when he and his players unloaded bleachers from a truck so fans could have a place to sit at varsity games.

"We as coaches are really thankful to the administration for what we've been able to do," Berson said.

South Carolina's soccer surface was serviceable, but had flaws that brought concerns, both Berson and Smith said.

The field's longtime sprinklers were the kind you might formerly find on a golf course, big and round and easy to slip on if you try and plant your foot, said Smith, the women's coach since 2001.

Despite the field deficiencies, both soccer programs have thrived.

Berson has had just two losing campaigns in 31 seasons in charge of the Gamecocks. He's made the NCAA tournament 18 times and produced such U.S. soccer stars as Josh Wolff, Clint Mathis and current national team member, goalkeeper Brad Guzan.

Smith's made her mark here as well with only one losing season since 2001 and consecutive NCAA appearances in 2007 and 2008 for the first time in program history. In Sept. 2007, the Gamecocks opened the season with a 1-0 victory at powerhouse North Carolina.

Berson and Smith said the two soccer teams should see benefits from the enhanced facility, including the potential to hold conference tournaments and NCAA tournament games. Berson's club competes in Conference USA since the SEC does not offer host men's soccer championships.

"This is something that can be done right away that will directly impact student athletes' experience here and our ability to host events," Berson said. "So it has an important competitive aspect and is important for both programs."


----------



## VX-NerveAgent

! allot of HUGE ****** football stadiums!


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## Huskies

i dont understand this ... does many threads make the site slower or something ? :S cause why else would you merge in a thread about a small stadium in a 200 page thread where it is imposible to find anything .... ? isnt it way better if you have several specific thread about what you want to read about ? i mean whats next merging the wembley , twickenham and emirates thread into a " London - stadium and arena development news " on 1000 pages ?


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## el pato

*EUGENE, OREGON USA: Hayward Field*

This is the University of Oregon's track and field venue. It opened in 1919 and has been quite busy lately. The track and field Olympic trials were held here last summer. The US Championships were in town last weekend. And from what I've heard, NCAA Nationals are on there way next year.

This was last years Olympic trials. Some larger temporary stands were set up in the corners to seat more people.









Here are some pictures I took today. I love walking through old venues especially when empty. It feels like walking through the past.


----------



## el pato

Here's some more:









































Some not so luxurious press boxes.


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## samuelsamario

Vacano el estadio..


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## Ganis

thats where Animal House was filmed


----------



## hkskyline

*Beavers owner withdraws Lents ballpark proposal *
19 June 2009

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) - The owner of the Portland Beavers is withdrawing his proposal to build a ballpark in the city's Lents neighborhood, where community opposition grew strong.

Merritt Paulson says the focus must be on paying for renovations to Portland's downtown PGE Park for a Major League Soccer franchise. The Portland Timbers soccer team, which Paulson will own, is expected to start play in 2011.

Because PGE Park would no longer be able to host the Beavers, the Triple-A affiliate of the San Diego Padres must find a new home. Paulson also owns the Beavers.

In a letter to Portland Mayor Sam Adams and city commissioners Friday, Paulson said it is critical that a funding agreement for PGE Park be in place to meet a Sept. 1 deadline or there's a risk of losing the franchise in Portland.

"For this reason, and a lack of community support for a new Triple-A stadium in Lents, I am withdrawing our proposal for a Lents baseball stadium," Paulson wrote.

Plans to tear down the city's Memorial Coliseum and build a ballpark adjacent to the Rose Garden, home of the NBA's Portland Trail Blazers, were scrubbed earlier.

Then hundreds of opponents turned out at a meeting over the proposal to build the ballpark in Lents Park on Thursday night.

Friends of Lents Park spokesman Nick Christensen said in a statement the group would focus on preserving Lents Park and revitalizing Lents Town Center.

"We sincerely hope the Beavers and the city of Portland can come to an agreement that will keep the Beavers in Portland, with a responsible funding plan and a thorough site selection process," Christensen said.

Adams expressed concern Thursday that the Beavers would be forced to leave town if the Lents proposal did not go through.

Paulson has raised the possibility of moving the team to nearby Vancouver, Wash., or to Hillsboro, a suburb west of Portland.

The Pacific Coast League has seen a few franchise shifts in recent years. Edmonton moved to Round Rock, Texas, after the 2004 season. The Tucson Sidewinders moved to Reno before the start of this season.

"As for the future of the Portland Beavers, I am committed to do everything possible to keep the Beavers in Portland or the Portland area," Paulson wrote. "And I intend to work with area business, sports, government and community leaders to make that happen."


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## el pato

Wow. I didn't realize my new thread would get moved out of the way if the venue didn't cost a certain amount of money, seat a certain amount of people, or was not built recently. SNOBS! I was just sharing some pics. Anyone interested in architecture would have some curiosity as to how a stadium could stand the test of time and last nearly 100 years. It will surely be used well past its 100th birthday.

One of my favorite things about this site is the opportunity to look at photos of structures. Now that I know interesting photos will simply get moved to the "Development News" section, I have lost respect for this site.

WARNING. Make sure any thread you start is of a building that: A.) Is in a significant city. B.) Seats a significant amount of people. C.) Cost a certain amount of money to build. and D.) Isn't old!


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## lpioe

^^ Only requirement to have an own thread is to seat 30k people.

Thanks for the pics anyway, I haven't seen many of athletic stadiums in the US.


----------



## KingmanIII

lpioe said:


> ^^ Only requirement to have an own thread is to seat 30k people.
> 
> Thanks for the pics anyway, I haven't seen many of athletic stadiums in the US.


That needs to be done away with.


----------



## PureBlueSea

Can anyone tell me which is the most famous soccer stadium in Usa?


----------



## Ganis

PureBlueSea said:


> Can anyone tell me which is the most famous soccer stadium in Usa?


umm... none.... well maybe.....ya none. the best stadium for soccer has turned out to be Safeco Field in Seattle and that is a football stadium.


----------



## Bobby3

Ganis said:


> umm... none.... well maybe.....ya none. the best stadium for soccer has turned out to be Safeco Field in Seattle and that is a football stadium.


Safeco Field is a baseball stadium.

PureBlueSea, the Rose Bowl. It's an American football stadium, but soccer is played there. World Cup and Olympic finals for men and women have been there.


----------



## el pato

lpioe said:


> ^^ Only requirement to have an own thread is to seat 30k people.
> 
> Thanks for the pics anyway, I haven't seen many of athletic stadiums in the US.


Most arenas don't seat 30K. 

It needs to be done away with. I know there are architects on this site and I know many large projects have been influenced by small stadiums. Oh well. It's not my site. The people that run it have the right to do what they think is good for the site.


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## en1044

el pato said:


> Most arenas don't seat 30K.
> 
> It needs to be done away with. I know there are architects on this site and I know many large projects have been influenced by small stadiums. Oh well. It's not my site. The people that run it have the right to do what they think is good for the site.


arenas and stadiums are different, in case you never noticed.


----------



## lpioe

For Arenas it's 10k, Stadiums 30k.
If you don't like this, you should post here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=741492


----------



## KingmanIII

Ganis said:


> umm... none.... well maybe.....ya none. the best stadium for soccer has turned out to be Safeco Field in Seattle and that is a football stadium.


You're thinking of Qwest -- Safeco is the baseball stadium.


----------



## tritown

PureBlueSea:
I'd say the most famous stadium built first for soccer is the Home Depot Center near Los Angeles.









Built 2003, seats 27,000, home of Los Angeles Galaxy and Club Deportivo Chivas USA.


Also, Qwest Field in Seattle is generating a lot of attention.









Built in 2002, total capacity for American football and large friendlies is 67,000, but capacity for the local club team is about 32,500. They just use decorative tarps over the upper bowl.

I would say that Home Depot Center for now is the most famous.


----------



## KingmanIII

tritown said:


> PureBlueSea:
> I'd say the most famous stadium built first for soccer is the Home Depot Center near Los Angeles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Built 2003, seats 27,000, home of Los Angeles Galaxy and Club Deportivo Chivas USA.
> 
> 
> Also, Qwest Field in Seattle is generating a lot of attention.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Built in 2002, total capacity for American football and large friendlies is 67,000, but capacity for the local club team is about 32,500. They just use decorative tarps over the upper bowl.
> 
> I would say that Home Depot Center for now is the most famous.


They're opening the upper decks for the friendlies against Chelsea (7/16) and Barca (8/5) -- the Chelsea match has been sold out for weeks.


----------



## tritown

KingmanIII said:


> They're opening the upper decks for the friendlies against Chelsea (7/16) and Barca (8/5) -- the Chelsea match has been sold out for weeks.


Yeah, I know. I'll be there in the upper decks:cheers:

What I meant was that they're covering the upper decks and Hawk's nest for league games. These exhibitions and maybe(?) the MLS Cup will have capacity at 67,000.

Considering how many season ticket holders there are now (22,000), and the alleged 10,000 person waiting list (deposit holders?) for 2010 season, the artificial capacity is subject to change, but it may remain the same. It probably depends on renewal rate from this year.


----------



## hkskyline

*All-you-can-eat seats: Gluttonous baseball fans stuff their faces for the price of admission*
8 July 2009

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) - First pitch was still half an hour away and the empty plastic cups, crinkled foil wrappers and peanut shells were already piling up under the blue seats in the Metrodome's upper deck.

While the Minnesota Twins prepared to play the Cleveland Indians on a recent evening, a few hundred fans were getting ready for a night-long contest of their own -- a race to empty out the concession stands before they closed.

"I've done four hot dogs, three nachos, a pretzel, some popcorn and about four of these pops," said Charlie Romain, proudly treating himself to an early 22nd birthday feast. "It's only been an hour, but I'm digesting a bit right now."

High above third base, Sections 232 and 233 have been turned into all-you-can-eat seats for 10 Tuesdays this season. So far, about one-third of the 600 available tickets have been sold for each of the special nights.

In this season of recession, the Twins are just one of several ballclubs trying such stuff-your-face promotions, the idea being to boost attendance, which is running more than 6 percent behind last year.

The clubs may not have counted on gluttonous fans like Jorge Retamal and Ron Benson, though. Their goal: make the home team lose money on the deal.

"I just like the idea that, because food is so expensive, I can come and, like, stick it to the system," Retamal said. "You know what I mean? I feel like I can even things out a little bit, just like baseball evens everything out."

For $34, up from the usual $22, customers can get a decent though distant view of the diamond and an unlimited amount of hot dogs, nachos, popcorn, peanuts, pretzels, soda and water during a 3 1/2-hour window that is sure to ruin any lingering New Year's resolutions.

Buddies Kyle Cash and Adam Petersen weren't too worried about the next-day cost to their stomachs.

"We're just here to pig out," Cash said with a smile.

Retamal and Benson, students at North Central University, walked from the campus a couple of blocks away. What amounts to free grub is clearly a big draw for the college-student demographic. Almost all the customers in the designated seats were young guys.

"As long as there's food involved, that's all that matters," said Benson, whose goal was to devour 20 hot dogs.

The Twins say they aren't too concerned about losing money on the really big eaters. Beer isn't included in the deal, for one thing. No waffle cone sundaes, either. And the all-you-can-grab grub ends at 9 p.m. no matter how many innings are left.

"Between the ticket and the food price, we're pretty well covered," team spokesman Chris Iles said. "It is a great deal for fans, though."

Two years ago, Dodger Stadium in Los Angeles began offering all-you-can-eat seats in an often-empty section of the outfield bleachers, inviting fans to help themselves to as many as those famous Dodger dogs as they want. This season, the tickets cost $25 when purchased in advance, $30 on game day.

In San Diego, the Padres are doing it, too, for $28 or $32, depending on the seat. They even have a "veggie dog" for those health-conscious Southern Californians.

The Pittsburgh Pirates, Baltimore Orioles and Texas Rangers also are among the teams offering stuff-your-face tickets.

The promotions are part of a larger effort by the major leagues to sell tickets in this downturn. This year, the Twins have tied the price of a $21 left-field seat for Monday games to the Dow Jones average from the previous Friday. The Dow closed last week at 8,280, dropping the price to $8.

"We're always looking for ways to be more creative," Iles said.

So are the fans.

Defending their gluttony, Retamal and Benson boasted that they had all the basic food groups covered.

"Ah," Retamal said, spying the jalapenos alongside an order of nachos, "I've got some veggies here!"


----------



## Scba

It's tough for Qwest, because you don't want to only open up part of the upper deck.


----------



## ryebreadraz

The Dodgers changed the right field bleachers to all you can eat last year. Hot dogs, nachos, soda, popcorn, pretzels, candy, peanuts, but if you want beer then you have to pay for it.


----------



## Ganis

What about the A's new stadium?


----------



## The Game Is Up

Ganis said:


> What about the A's new stadium?


http://newballpark.blogspot.com/2009/02/now-its-official.html


----------



## Ganis

damn... that sucks. so they are still stuck in the worst stadium for baseball in the USA


----------



## Benn

It was perfectly fine until they built mount Davis, the ugliest addition in sports for sure.


----------



## Ganis

??? What ???


----------



## ryebreadraz

Ganis said:


> ??? What ???


When the Raiders moved back to Oakland, there were changes made to the stadium. Outside of the regular sprucing up and modernizing, they also added an upper deck along one side to increase capacity and add suites/club seats. It looks awful, is an awful seat and ruined the view and open feel at the stadium, which was its lone redeeming quality. That addition was nicknamed "Mount Davis" for dear ol' Al.

Before:









After:


----------



## buy

*New Red Bull Arena pictures - 6 July 2009*

From the website of WCBS new york. <3 chopper shots!


----------



## The Game Is Up

Ground officially broken for the new Florida Marlins baseball stadium in Miami.













































































































All from the Sun-Sentinel

http://postpix.palmbeachpost.com/my...yID=48283&pSlideshow=1&picnum=11&move=B#Image
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sfl-marlins-stadium-renderings,0,5007526.photogallery


----------



## Basincreek

What the hell is that last thing? Some sort of tiered, oversized hot tub?

Actually, if they got some thong wearing honeys from South Beach in that it might not be such a bad idea.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Well, they do have cheerleaders called the Marlins Mermaids. I'm not sure whether that's where they want to send them. 

Actually, from what I've read, this is going to be a tank for some type of animatronic marlin that would jump out and in after every home team HR. It would be interesting to see how that would work.


----------



## Scba

The Game Is Up said:


> Well, they do have cheerleaders called the Marlins Mermaids. I'm not sure whether that's where they want to send them.
> 
> Actually, from what I've read, this is going to be a tank for some type of animatronic marlin that would jump out and in after every home team HR. It would be interesting to see how that would work.


Do they still have the Manatees?


----------



## The Game Is Up

Yes they do. If you check the video links that I posted yesterday at the Marlins stadium thread you would see them entertaining the crowd that was at the groundbreaking ceremony.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

the Marlins new stadium looks so small. whats the capacity? 32,000?


----------



## ryebreadraz

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> the Marlins new stadium looks so small. whats the capacity? 32,000?


~ 37,000


----------



## massp88

*Worst NFL Stadium 2`*

Pretty straight forward, what is the worst stadium in the NFL?


----------



## Severiano

Oakland-Alameda Coliseum. This is a baseball stadium, it looks ridiculous when I watch it on TV, I feel bad for the fans they look so far away from the field. Candlestick Park is a close second, pretty much the same problem as OAC, but it is no longer used for baseball. The Bay area has got to step it up in the stadium department.


----------



## ryebreadraz

Severiano said:


> Oakland-Alameda Coliseum. This is a baseball stadium, it looks ridiculous when I watch it on TV, I feel bad for the fans they look so far away from the field. Candlestick Park is a close second, pretty much the same problem as OAC, but it is no longer used for baseball. The Bay area has got to step it up in the stadium department.


All of California is awful with regards to stadiums. Los Angeles lost their teams because they didn't have a suitable stadium, while San Diego, Oaklan and San Francisco are among the worst stadiums in the league. The problem is that none of the cities, counties or state will contribute any money to a stadium and building in California costs a fortune.


----------



## en1044

Severiano said:


> Oakland-Alameda Coliseum. This is a baseball stadium, it looks ridiculous when I watch it on TV, I feel bad for the fans they look so far away from the field. Candlestick Park is a close second, pretty much the same problem as OAC, but it is no longer used for baseball. The Bay area has got to step it up in the stadium department.


I'll see your Bay Area stadium and raise you one Candlestick Park as the worst.

At least half of the Oakland Coliseum is suited for football. Candlestick straight sucks. Its ALL baseball.


----------



## salaverryo

en1044 said:


> I'll see your Bay Area stadium and raise you one Candlestick Park as the worst.
> 
> At least half of the Oakland Coliseum is suited for football. Candlestick straight sucks. Its ALL baseball.


Plus the swirling wind currents at Candlestick drive everybody crazy, players & spectators alike. Notice how the area around the stadium is totally desolate. Nobody wants to live there, not even the homeless...


----------



## ryebreadraz

salaverryo said:


> Plus the swirling wind currents at Candlestick drive everybody crazy, players & spectators alike. Notice how the area around the stadium is totally desolate. Nobody wants to live there, not even the homeless...


The wind reeks havoc on kickers there, but can you imagine what it was like when baseball was played there?


----------



## KingmanIII

ryebreadraz said:


> The wind reeks havoc on kickers there, but can you imagine what it was like when baseball was played there?


During the 1961 All-Star Game, Stu Miller was blown off the mound...and issued a balk.


----------



## KingmanIII

ryebreadraz said:


> All of California is awful with regards to stadiums.


Stadiums, easily.

Ballparks, beautiful.


----------



## ryebreadraz

KingmanIII said:


> Stadiums, easily.
> 
> Ballparks, beautiful.


Agreed minus the A's. The cost between building a ballpark as opposed to a stadium is the difference there and remember that the two newest ballparks in CA were a long time coming. Lots of fighting and almost moving before Petco and AT&T got done.


----------



## hkskyline

*New Cowboys stadium offers more than just football, fans can check out contemporary art *
20 August 2009

ARLINGTON, Texas (AP) - Football fans waiting in concession lines this fall at the Dallas Cowboys' new stadium will be able to walk away with more than just a beer and a hot dog: They can also get a museum-quality art experience.

Fourteen contemporary works commissioned for the stadium will be displayed everywhere from entries to staircases to the sprawling walls above food stands. Most of the works will be in place by the first regular-season game on Sept. 20.

As plans for the nearly $1.2 billion stadium shaped up, contemporary art seemed a natural fit for the sleek, high-tech building, said Gene Jones, the wife of Cowboys owner Jerry Jones.

"We wanted it to be more than a football stadium," she said. "We thought we had a building that would be something for the community."

Looming over a main staircase in the stadium, Gary Simmons' "Blue Field Explosions" depicts two forceful white blasts against a blue background. On the main staircase at the opposite end of the stadium, splashes of color greet visitors in Franz Ackermann's "Coming Home (Meet Me) At the Waterfall."

"I bring five floors together as one unit," Ackermann said.

Olafur Eliasson's "Moving stars takes time" has been installed from the ceiling inside an entryway, its stainless steel parts floating overhead.

Michael Auping is chief curator at the Modern Art Museum Fort Worth and a member of the art council formed to offer advice on the project. He said part of the project's significance comes from the way the art and architecture come together.

"There isn't anything like this anywhere," Auping said.

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello noted that other stadiums have statues or displays pertaining to their teams, but not art like this.

"I think this as far as we know is very unique," Aiello said.

Arts council members said the sheer number of people expected to come through the stadium made an impression on the artists. Charlotte Anderson, the Jones' daughter and a Cowboys vice president, said almost three million people will visit during its first year, attending everything from sporting events and concerts to tours of the stadium.

Some of the artists have taken their cue from the battles that will be waged on the field.

Motivated by the psychology of the sport, Mel Bochner said he proposed working with the word "win." Work will begin next week on his piece, which will be a series of capitalized words, beginning with "WIN! VANQUISH! CONQUER! CLOBBER!"

"That's what football is about," he said. "It seemed to me that that captured the ethos of a crowd entering the stadium."

"I think the Dallas Cowboys are to be congratulated for embarking on this program, which will put a lot of new eyeballs on a lot of new art," Bochner said.

As artist Terry Haggerty worked on a painting that will resemble a giant red and white striped wave above a concession stand, he said that after seeing the "monstrousness of the space" he wanted his piece to distort it a bit.

"It's going to be a bit of a fisheye lens," he said.

Charles Wylie, a curator of contemporary art at the Dallas Museum of Art and member of the arts council, said that the project is exciting because it gives people the chance to experience art outside of a museum.

"I think it really opens up the definition of art for people," Wylie said.

------

On the Net:

Cowboys Stadium, http://stadium.dallascowboys.com


----------



## Topher51

ryebreadraz said:


> The wind reeks havoc on kickers there, but can you imagine what it was like when baseball was played there?


The original layout of Candlestick Park


----------



## krudmonk

Wow, that place got wrecked worse than the Coliseum. Imagine if they both stood in their original form like Dodger Stadium today.


----------



## hkskyline

*Report: New stadium in SJ would generate millions *
3 September 2009

SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) - A new report shows San Jose has much to gain if the Oakland Athletics move into town.

The report commissioned by the city and released Thursday says a 32,000-seat ballpark for a Major League team would generate $130 million in new spending each year and create more than 2,000 jobs.

The analysis shows the stadium would bring in about $1.5 million to the city's coffers.

San Jose still has to obtain permission to pursue the A's since the city currently falls in the San Francisco Giants' territory.

The A's -- tired of sharing a rundown space with the NFL's Oakland Raiders -- are looking to leave Oakland after trying unsuccessfully for years to find a suitable site in the city for a new stadium.


----------



## KingmanIII

hkskyline said:


> *Report: New stadium in SJ would generate millions *
> 3 September 2009
> 
> SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) - A new report shows San Jose has much to gain if the Oakland Athletics move into town.
> 
> The report commissioned by the city and released Thursday says a 32,000-seat ballpark for a Major League team would generate $130 million in new spending each year and create more than 2,000 jobs.
> 
> The analysis shows the stadium would bring in about $1.5 million to the city's coffers.


Hmmm...wonder where we've heard this schtick before... hno:


----------



## krudmonk

KingmanIII said:


> Hmmm...wonder where we've heard this schtick before... hno:


For comparison's sake, against the proposed 49ers stadium in Santa Clara...

1. Construction would be 100% privately financed.

2. Total cost would be half as much.

3. Venue would host ten times as many events.

4. Site is actually near other businesses that would benefit from pre- and post-game activity.


----------



## KingmanIII

krudmonk said:


> For comparison's sake, against the proposed 49ers stadium in Santa Clara...
> 
> 1. Construction would be 100% privately financed.
> 
> 2. Total cost would be half as much.
> 
> 3. Venue would host ten times as many events.
> 
> 4. Site is actually near other businesses that would benefit from pre- and post-game activity.


Hmm...didn't know this plan would be privately funded.

Then yes, that makes it one hell of a deal for the city.


----------



## krudmonk

KingmanIII said:


> Hmm...didn't know this plan would be privately funded.
> 
> Then yes, that makes it one hell of a deal for the city.


The concessions from the city are the city-owned land and a parking garage which will be used by this stadium and the nearby arena. I don't know how the land would be dealt: gifted, leased, etc. The garage would allow current surface parking lots to be put to higher-density use, though, which is great.


----------



## Keithire

*OMAHA - TD Ameritrade Park (24,000 - 35,000) - NCAA CWS*










The ballpark will have a capacity of 24,000 people, with the ability to expand to 35,000 spectators, and open in 2011. It will replace Johnny Rosenblatt Stadium as the home of the Royals and CWS. It is also expected that the Creighton University baseball team will play there, though paperwork has not been signed. Ballpark cost - $128 million.

Groundbreaking for TD Ameritrade Park occurred January 21, 2009.

http://www.tdameritradeparkomaha.com


I wanted to show everyone how construction is going so far, and plan on posting new updates from time to time.


----------



## Ganis

they better work faster!


----------



## weava

Has Creighton commented on if they will or won't play their homes games here?


----------



## ryebreadraz

^^^ The assumption remains that they will, but nothing has been signed yet.


----------



## Scba

I'll warn you now, I already tried to make this thread once, and it got relegated to the general US thread.


----------



## Keithire

I hope Creighton decides to play at this field because I'd like to see it used for more than a few weeks in the summer. I was also surprised how small of an area this ballpark is being shoehorned into.


----------



## weava

Scba said:


> I'll warn you now, I already tried to make this thread once, and it got relegated to the general US thread.


with a capacity of 35,000 it meets the 30k min so they better leave it open.


----------



## KingmanIII

Keithire said:


> I hope Creighton decides to play at this field because I'd like to see it used for more than a few weeks in the summer. I was also surprised how small of an area this ballpark is being shoehorned into.


I've heard talks of an independent league team expanding to Omaha.

If the place can seat 35k in the future -- I know, it's a pipe dream -- but it'd be nice to see MLB there.


----------



## Scba

KingmanIII said:


> I've heard talks of an independent league team expanding to Omaha.
> 
> If the place can seat 35k in the future -- I know, it's a pipe dream -- but it'd be nice to see MLB there.


It would be nice to see some international baseball competitions, or if MLB had a pair, an all-star game. 35k is more seats than Pittsburgh has.


----------



## www.sercan.de

so when its finished it will be 24k?


----------



## en1044

Scba said:


> It would be nice to see some international baseball competitions, or if MLB had a pair, an all-star game. 35k is more seats than Pittsburgh has.


PNC Park seats 38k


----------



## ryebreadraz

www.sercan.de said:


> so when its finished it will be 24k?


It will seat 24,000 permanently, but the expansion to 35,000 is easy and can be done temporarily so there is talk that it may be expanded to 35,000 for the College World Series each year if there is the demand the expect.


----------



## weava

KingmanIII said:


> I've heard talks of an independent league team expanding to Omaha.
> 
> If the place can seat 35k in the future -- I know, it's a pipe dream -- but it'd be nice to see MLB there.


no city with under 2 million has a chance of getting a MLB team


----------



## Keithire

I can't remember Omaha ever wanting an MLB team. We do have the Omaha Royals (AAA affiliate to KC) but they are having their own stadium being built in Papillion, NE. An independent league team playing in TD Ameritrade Park could be fun.


----------



## Scba

The renders of the park look larger than 24k seats, so maybe some of those would be tarped off to create to lower capacity. As is, there's no way to temporarily add 11k more seats in that space.


----------



## Ganis

weava said:


> no city with under 2 million has a chance of getting a MLB team


arlington has the Texas Rangers and has just over 200,000 people.


----------



## ryebreadraz

Ganis said:


> arlington has the Texas Rangers and has just over 200,000 people.


The Rangers also consider Dallas as part of their market. They have Arlington and Dallas. Omaha wouldn't have a city so close like Dallas to draw from.


----------



## hoosier

Ganis said:


> arlington has the Texas Rangers and has just over 200,000 people.


Arlington is a suburb of Dallas- Dallas is the market being served, which has WAY more than 2 million people. You of all people should know this.


----------



## hoosier

I don't get why Omaha is getting TWO baseball stadiums. Why won't the Royals play in TD Ameritrade Park? Talk about overkill.


----------



## hoosier

Keithire said:


> I can't remember Omaha ever wanting an MLB team. We do have the Omaha Royals (AAA affiliate to KC) but they are having their own stadium being built in Papillion, NE. An independent league team playing in TD Ameritrade Park could be fun.


Two AAA baseball teams in Omaha? Come on.


----------



## Ganis

ryebreadraz said:


> The Rangers also consider Dallas as part of their market. They have Arlington and Dallas. Omaha wouldn't have a city so close like Dallas to draw from.





hoosier said:


> Arlington is a suburb of Dallas- Dallas is the market being served, which has WAY more than 2 million people. You of all people should know this.


Let me post his quote again.



weava said:


> no city with under 2 million has a chance of getting a MLB team


He didnt say "No Metroplex" or "No Suberb of 2 multi million people cities"


----------



## ryebreadraz

Ganis said:


> Let me post his quote again.
> 
> He didnt say "No Metroplex" or "No Suberb of 2 multi million people cities"


You're nitpicking and you know it. His intent was clear.


----------



## weava

Ganis said:


> He didnt say "No Metroplex" or "No Suberb of 2 multi million people cities"


really, are you texans that dumb?


----------



## koolio

Ganis said:


> Let me post his quote again.
> 
> 
> 
> He didnt say "No Metroplex" or "No Suberb of 2 multi million people cities"


Aside from the dumb point, how exactly does the word superb (miss spelled no less) fit in with the rest of your statement?


----------



## Keithire

hoosier said:


> Two AAA baseball teams in Omaha? Come on.


Independent League isn't affiliated with A ball.


Omaha Royals wanted a smaller stadium so they built their own.


----------



## en1044

Ganis said:


> Let me post his quote again.
> 
> 
> 
> He didnt say "No Metroplex" or "No Suberb of 2 multi million people cities"


Oh Ganis...thats funny.

You know what he meant.


----------



## KingmanIII

hoosier said:


> Two AAA baseball teams in Omaha? Come on.


Both Rosenblatt and the new CWS park are way too large for AAA ball; the O-Royals only draw 5-6k/night.


----------



## KingmanIII

Ganis said:


> arlington has the Texas Rangers and has just over 200,000 people.


Arlington actually has about 375,000 people.


----------



## KingmanIII

koolio said:


> Aside from the dumb point, how exactly does the word superb (miss spelled no less) fit in with the rest of your statement?


He misspelled "suburb."


----------



## Basincreek

Getting a new stadium for the Niners is tricky. San Francisco wants them to stay in the city but doesn't want to help financially in any way. There was lots of opposition to AT&T Park even though it was 100% privately financed. So then the 49ers looked to Santa Clara but that is being opposed by the Great America (or whatever it's called now) theme park.





Okay, being a masochist I went back and read this entire thread. It seems like the first 130 pages were equal parts roof discussion and Texas Longhorns masturbation. The roof thing I found very odd. I just can't figure out why anyone would ask about such a thing. Do any US sport fans go into the threads about stadiums in Europe and ask, "why do you guys put those dreadfully oppressive roofs on your stadiums?"


----------



## mattec

I believe Cedar Fair, the parent company of Great America theme park has hinted at suing to stop the 49er's stadium project.

http://www.kcbs.com/pages/5200840.php?

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-beat/Santa-Clara-Stadium-Scares-Great-America-jw-59061752.html


----------



## weava

krudmonk said:


> Wow, that place got wrecked worse than the Coliseum. Imagine if they both stood in their original form like Dodger Stadium today.


well now that you mention it, maby they should also wreck dodger stadium for a NFL team :lol:

Would it be possible to turn Angles field back into a NFL stadium.


----------



## ryebreadraz

weava said:


> well now that you mention it, maby they should also wreck dodger stadium for a NFL team :lol:
> 
> Would it be possible to turn Angles field back into a NFL stadium.


They wouldn't do it, but a few years ago there was talk of building a football stadium in the Angel Stadium parking lot.


----------



## Basincreek

Sure you could turn it back into a NFL stadium. Though the Angels sure aren't going to let you and I would question the practicality of it since it would probably cost as much as new stand-alone stadium.


----------



## Ganis

mattec said:


> I believe Cedar Fair, the parent company of Great America theme park has hinted at suing to stop the 49er's stadium project.
> 
> http://www.kcbs.com/pages/5200840.php?
> 
> http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-beat/Santa-Clara-Stadium-Scares-Great-America-jw-59061752.html


How can a football stadium next door ruin attendance to a theme park? These guys are looking for money where they cant get it.


----------



## Keithire

Update:


----------



## 504souldja

^^i can't really see what the hell is going on in those pics


----------



## Scba

I'd like to see this become like the National baseball stadium or something, since it's pretty neutral. A place where we could host international matches, the few there are.


----------



## Scba

Any news?

Later Edit: And here's a thought. I've seen that the UFL is considering placing a team in Omaha. Would they...play here? There's no other large stadium in the Omaha area, and Ameritrade wouldn't be being used in the fall.


----------



## eMKay

Scba said:


> I'd like to see this become like the National baseball stadium or something, since it's pretty neutral. A place where we could host international matches, the few there are.


That's a pretty good idea, especially since the Royals aren't playing there. Seems like a shame, 24k isn't much larger than CocaCola field, we sell it out pretty regularly (friday night, sunday afternoons).


----------



## Richo83

*US stadiums in need of repair/replacement*

Hi everyone, I thought it would be interesting to hear what people's thoughts on what are the stadiums in most need of repair/replacement/destruction. (if the mods think this covers ground of another us stadium thread and should be nuked, remove it but the us stadium news thread doesn't necessarily cover what people think should happen but what will, plus that's one of the biggest threads here, this could be a one thread for US stadium grievances)

A few ground rules, don't list the stadiums of teams you don't like (pointless), try to explain why this stadium needs changing (a pic specifically illustrating the problem would get bonus points although don't bother if you can't, I couldn't) and don't list stadiums which are being replaced/repaired. It's pointless pointing to Giants stadium as having problems when it's not going to be used anymore for that exact reason. It would be also nice if we could also focus on the services in the stadium not just the looks.

Ok as is custom I'll start off, three stadiums really stand out for me:

Bradley center - Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Milwaukee Bucks, Admirals, Iron, Marquette uni



















Why? Well for starters it's very ugly and looks like a stone block, and inside the lack of modern features means the club has poor corporate facilities, poor crowds and suffers in terms of profits meaning it struggles compared to other teams. As a Bucks fan I've been to a game here and it was underwhelming, I was expecting to see the US stadium standard yet was left disappointed.

RFK stadium - Washington, DC, DC United, Washington Freedom










Why? This stadium isn't really used by anyone, Washington's nfl and mlb sides doesn't use it, and the mls side wants to move. If anything, this stadium might be destroyed due to uselessness. It's unsuitable for soccer due to it being too big, it's unsuitable for baseball due to it not being specifically designed for the sport (which sucks, just ask marlin fans) and it's too small for football.

Candlestick park - San Francisco, California, San Francisco 49ers










Why? Again, a stadium which is too old and doesn't fit it's requirements, the Giants have moved out and the 49ers really should. 

These are fairly obvious examples especially the last two so US sports fans, who know more about their stadiums and sports than I do, what's some stadiums which really, well, don't do the job?


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## weava

RFK has already been replaced by 2 stadiums so I don't see why its on your list; New Nationals Ballpark and FedEx Field


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## LosAngelesSportsFan

In LA, 

1) Colosseum - Needs a big time renovation. keep the look, just update the damn thing (will happen in the near future)

2) Rose Bowl - Same as above (Soon to start)

3) Sports Arena - tear it down, its a relic

4) Pauly Pavilion - Gathering funding, should begin by the end of the year. Major interior revamp as well as exterior changes

5) Forum - mostly used as a church so really no need

6) Dodger Stadium - Continue the renovations. Lower level has been completed, working on the rest of the stadium.

6) Staples Center / Honda Center / Home Depot Center / Angels Stadium / Ontario Arena / Galen Center are all new or newer so no need for any changes


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## Benn

The Bradley center is in need of a renovation, but a replacement would be a waste of money this city doesn't have. $50 million would do it fine, not the $300+ million for a new arena.

-The Bucks and Marquette have no need for more seats (18,718).
-They would have a hard time selling more suites (68).
-Concourses are fine, could use improved lighting.
-Restrooms are fine.
-It could do with club seating and loge seating areas, but thats an easy fix like they did in Phoenix or OKC.
-Concessions could use an upgrade.
-Could use new seats.
-Could use a new scoreboard.

And I think you are the first person I have heard who doesn't like the granite facade.

The only serious problem with it at this point is that primarily serves two basketball teams yet is built to accomodate hockey, but there isn't a good alternative for the Admirals. A $50 million renovation would have it in good shape for another 20 years.

Milwaukee would be better served with a renovation here and possibly a MLS facility and team down the road. Or maybe a couple of streetcar lines. Or a balanced budget.

Teams in the big four that really need a new facility in my mind.

NFL

-49ers
-Chargers
-Raiders
-Vikings

NBA

-Sacremento
(assuming the Barclay's Center gets built, even in its stripped down design)

NHL

-NY Islanders
-Detroit
-Edmonton

MLB

-Tampa
-Oakland As

I would say that the Niners and Islanders are in the worst shape, but all of the above could use better facilities.


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## Agent Zeke

In Pittsburgh,

Heinz Field is fairly new, opened in 2001.

PNC Park is the best stadium in baseball, also opened in 2001.

The Igloo is nearly 50 years old and the smallest arena in the NHL, but is in the process of being replaced by the larger and high-tech Consol Energy Center across the street, which will open in August 2010.

Pitt replaced the old Fitz Field House in 2002 with the Peterson Events Center.

Duquesne plays at the A.J. Palumbo center, which is now 22 years old and not extraordinarily outdated, but it is a smaller gym (about 5,300) and it's highly possible that the Dukes will play bigger games at the Consol Energy Center.

I would say that the JLA in Detroit could use at least a renovation if not an entirely new building for the Red Wings, but I doubt they'll touch that place in the near future.


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## Richo83

weava said:


> RFK has already been replaced by 2 stadiums so I don't see why its on your list; New Nationals Ballpark and FedEx Field


Still used by DC United, but good point, I hope this thread is used for stadiums which fall into disuse and should be destroyed as well.

Benn I agree Bradley center needs repair rather than replacement, I don't mind suggestions for either (I designed this thread for both) repair or replacement of stadiums. Good post btw. 

We'll agree to disagree on the outside. Regardless I don't want this to turn into another stadium opinion thread where many arguments break out over many stadiums, if we could keep arguments to a minimum and info on why people think a stadium needs improvement/replacement that would be good. So far everyone's been pretty good, cheers.


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## Dexter Morgan

*MLB:*

Replaced-

Tropicana Field








'










Oakland Collesium



















Renovated:

Rogers Centre aka Skydome


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## BoulderGrad

OOh, good thread Idea.

Venues in Seattle that could use some t.l.c. or a wrecking ball:

Husky Stadium:
Lower bowl is ancient and crumbling. Renovation plans have already been drawn up that would remove the athletics track, lower the field, and add upper deck seats to the non-lake side end zone bowl. Price tag is $300mil, but neither the state, city, or university has the kind of money to play with at the moment.

Key Arena:
During the whole Sonics fiasco, the idea of a $300mil renovation was thrown around. I keep maintaining that they should tear down and start again. The current setup works for the current tenants (Storm and Seattle U Basketball), but is horrible for hockey of all levels (The Thunderbirds bolted for Kent) and too small for NBA basketball. Pittsburgh got their brand new arena for around $300mil. I say we should do the same and try to draw the NBA back and get an NHL team while we're at it.

Memorial Stadium:
A 17,000 seat outdoor stadium located adjacent to Key arena in the Seattle Center. The original stands are to be torn down and replaced with an underground parking garage covered by a large lawn. The stadium will be rebuilt on the eastern most edge of the site with a single grandstand, allowing for smaller crowds for high school games and for better festival concert setups.

Mercer Arena:
Built in 1912, it is home to the first American Stanley cup champions (Seattle Metropolitans). Served as home to a number of hockey teams, and temporarily to the Seattle opera. Currently sits vacant in need of redevelopment. Plans are in place to redevelop it as a concert and opera venue, but as usual, money is an issue.


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## Dexter Morgan

The IZOD Center needs to go... the entire arena uses one concourse


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## Dexter Morgan

weava said:


> RFK has already been replaced by 2 stadiums so I don't see why its on your list; New Nationals Ballpark and FedEx Field


DC United still plays at RFK. They should get a soccer only facility and RFK should get the wrecking ball.


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## Lord David

I can see an RFK replacement should Washington DC want an Olympics bid.

Replace it with a 80,000 seater Olympic Size Stadium that can be expanded to a 100,000 seater+ rectangular stadium that can fit both a NFL field and Soccer field.

Then you have the whole area as a mini Olympic Park of sorts.


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## Dexter Morgan

Lord David said:


> I can see an RFK replacement should Washington DC want an Olympics bid.
> 
> Replace it with a 80,000 seater Olympic Size Stadium that can be expanded to a 100,000 seater+ rectangular stadium that can fit both a NFL field and Soccer field.
> 
> Then you have the whole area as a mini Olympic Park of sorts.


And who's going to use it once the Olympics are over? The Nationals (Nationals Park) have a brand new stadium and the Redskins (FedEx Field) have a relatively new stadium.


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## weava

Dexter Morgan said:


> And who's going to use it once the Olympics are over? The Nationals (Nationals Park) have a brand new stadium and the Redskins (FedEx Field) have a relatively new stadium.


 the redskins could probably use a new stadium by the time the US is given an olympics.


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## Bobby3

The Redskins want to leave, they don't really like FedExField.

Our stadium situation --

*Bank of America Stadium* (Uptown, Charlotte): Built 1996. The Carolina Panthers play here, and privately own it. It's in good shape, they sell out every game but it doesn't need more than 74,000 really. No issues with the concourses or anything, all seats are still in good shape. Video boards could probably use an upgrade, but that's nitpicking. Has good public transit (LYNX train and CATS bus) access being uptown.

*Charlotte Bobcats Arena* (Uptown, Charlotte): Brand new. Bobcats don't sell out often. The Checkers (ECHL, AHL next season) play here too. It's right on a rail line, which is cool.

*American Legion Memorial Stadium* (Elizabeth, Charlotte): Holds about 24,000, it's very old -- was a WPA project in the 1930's. Doesn't have a tenant. Its eastern stand fell apart -- literally -- last year and it's currently undergoing repairs. To be honest it needs a complete refurbishment, but its status as a WPA relic makes that difficult. Would make a great soccer stadium if they widened the field. Elizabeth is a cool place.

*Bojangles' Coliseum* (Commonwealth, Charlotte): Another one with historic status, because at the time it was the largest unsupported steel dome in the world. It was built in 1955 and refurbished inside between 1988 (when the Hornets arena opened) and 1992. So it's in okay shape for a secondary arena. People from Charlotte actually prefer it to the uptown arena, it has a better atmosphere. Concerts sound better, basketball is more intimate, ect.
*
Halton Arena* (University City, Charlotte): UNC Charlotte's arena. It's good.

*Knights Stadium* (Fort Mill, South Carolina): The AAA Knights play here and it sucks pretty bad. Very utilitarian 80's concrete venue. They want to move uptown (next to BoA Stadium) but a lawyer that wants to move an MLB team here keeps blocking their land swap deal. Nobody likes him.

I haven't been to the stadiums in Davidson, but Monroe has a stadium and I don't like it.


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## Scba

Baltimore Arena. Wrecking ball and/or mother of all refurbishments.


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## ryebreadraz

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> In LA,
> 
> 1) Colosseum - Needs a big time renovation. keep the look, just update the damn thing (will happen in the near future)


When is the Coliseum going to be updated? The new lease with USC only required that the video boards and sound system be upgraded, both of which have happened. The rest of the renovations are very minor things and more along the lines of maintenance than it is renovation. With USC only paying the Coliseum Commission $1.6 million per year and the stadium operating very near a loss, there just isn't the money for the renovation it so badly needs.



> 2) Rose Bowl - Same as above (Soon to start)


Again, when will this renovation start? They are currently exploring the possibility of renovating the place, but they're just at the survey stage. Without a firm plan of what they want done, a design firm, budget or timeline, I wouldn't call it soon to start. I'd put any renovation at 50/50 right now.




> 3) Sports Arena - tear it down, its a relic


Agreed.




> 4) Pauly Pavilion - Gathering funding, should begin by the end of the year. Major interior revamp as well as exterior changes


Renovations are supposed to start in months, but they're still lacking funding. There are serious doubt about whether or not they will be able to raise the funds necessary for this abomination of a renovation plan.



> 5) Forum - mostly used as a church so really no need


If the Pauley renovation goes through, UCLA will likely play the majority of their games at the Forum and it may get some renovations as a result.



> 6) Dodger Stadium - Continue the renovations. Lower level has been completed, working on the rest of the stadium.


We'll see if they ever get any further in these renovations. They were short on money before the McCourt divorce and whether they will have the money for any more renovations is a major question for the smaller renovations to each level let alone their pie in the sky 50 years plan.



> 6) Staples Center / Honda Center / Home Depot Center / Angels Stadium / Ontario Arena / Galen Center are all new or newer so no need for any changes


Galen Center never went through with their second phase of suites because of lack of interest, but they still want to put them in so if USC ever gets a consistent winner, those will go in. Staples is one of the worst modern arenas for watching an event, but it's a massive moneymaker and any changes would require a major structural change so that won't be happening.


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## soup or man

Lord David said:


> I can see an RFK replacement should Washington DC want an Olympics bid.
> 
> Replace it with a 80,000 seater Olympic Size Stadium that can be expanded to a 100,000 seater+ rectangular stadium that can fit both a NFL field and Soccer field.
> 
> Then you have the whole area as a mini Olympic Park of sorts.


You clearly read my post in one of the Olympic threads.

:nuts:


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## nyrmetros

Dexter Morgan said:


> DC United still plays at RFK. They should get a soccer only facility and RFK should get the wrecking ball.


DC needs a soccer stadium


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## nyrmetros

Bobby3 said:


> The Redskins want to leave, they don't really like FedExField.
> .



They built it.


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## ryebreadraz

nyrmetros said:


> They built it.


Sure, the Redskins built it, but it was really Jack Kent Cook who built it and Daniel Snyder wants no part of it.


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## Scba

More talk coming out that if Omaha lands one of the two new UFL teams (it's probably Omaha and SLC) that they'll play here. But I've heard the Ameritrade folks aren't happy with the idea of football there.

The field dimensions really don't look big enough to me, but if they can fit it, go for it. Someone needs to step up and make this place look like less of a White Elephant.


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## dmoor82

KingmanIII said:


> Arlington actually has about 375,000 people.


^^^^Arlington took over The #50 spot for The U.S. most populated cities,Arlington bumped Wichita out of The top 50!


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## RaiderATO

Scba said:


> Someone needs to step up and make this place look like less of a White Elephant.


This stadium isn't doing any less than the Blatt.

TD Ameritrade brings the visitors downtown, where they can more easily spend money. It upgrades the facility (in amenities/location/capacity), which will go a long way in keeping Omaha as the home of the CWS.

The only thing this stadium isn't good for are the folks who lived around the zoo and charged people to park in their yards.


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## Scba

Rosenblatt has the Omaha Royals; Ameritrade won't.


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## RaiderATO

Scba said:


> Rosenblatt has the Omaha Royals; Ameritrade won't.


While I'm not close to the situation, I assume it won't be too long until they hop away from the rainbow bleachers and into downtown.


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## Scba

RaiderATO said:


> While I'm not close to the situation, I assume it won't be too long until they hop away from the rainbow bleachers and into downtown.


The Royals are building their own stadium in the suburbs.


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## RaiderATO

Scba said:


> The Royals are building their own stadium in the suburbs.


Whose decision is that? Royals? TD Ameritrade's?

THAT'S the stadium that seems like a waste.


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## Scba

RaiderATO said:


> Whose decision is that? Royals? TD Ameritrade's?
> 
> THAT'S the stadium that seems like a waste.


There was a big drawn out hissy fit by every side. So yeah, something doesn't look like it's adding up in the end.


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## eMKay

And what is the status of the Royals new stadium? I can't find a thread for it


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## Scba

It's official now; UFL Omaha WILL play at Ameritrade in 2011.


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## Keithire

Update:


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## HHH_Gopher

Anyone know what might happen in the Bay Area? It's looking like it's more likely that the Niners will eventually move to San Jose.

http://www.bizjournals.com/twinciti...4/26/daily4.html?s=industry&i=sports_business

While I'm not sure I love the idea of the 49ers not playing in San Fran, the proposal actually looks pretty sound. It also appears as though the A's will be off to San Jose - which is still a bizarre move to me.

Anyhow, there had been talk of the Niner's and Raiders sharing a facility, which actually would make some sense if you look at the geographic locale of San Jose. However, if the A's move on, why wouldn't the Raiders look to knock down the "old" parts of McAfee Stadium and build a new structure opposite Mt. Davis. It seems to me that if you simply replicated the 1995 addition on the West side, developed some sort of endzone seating on both the north and south sides, and installed black seats, you could have a solid NFL stadium in amenities, revenue-generation, and aesthetics. It's surprising to me that this hasn't been more publicly promoted.


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## desertpunk

This drama is what? 20 years old?


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## isaidso

*HAMILTON - Pan American Stadium (15,000 - 50,000)*

The Golden Horseshoe has been awarded the 2015 Pan American Games. Opening and closing ceremonies along with other events will take place in Toronto. The main athletics stadium will be built in Hamilton, 60 km to the southwest along the lakeshore. 

The Golden Horseshoe has a population of roughly 9 million people. Toronto is the largest city in the region with about 6 million people while metropolitan Hamilton isn't second largest with about 750,000 people. Their primary sports team is the Hamilton Tiger-Cats of the Canadian Football League. They are the oldest professional football team in north America.

The proposal is for a 15,000 seat athletics stadium that can later be expanded to 30,000 to make it suitable for the Hamilton Tiger-Cats football team. The design and location is to be basically the same as the previously proposed Commonwealth Games stadium for Hamilton:

*Pan American Games configuration @ 15,000 seats*










*Hamilton Tiger-Cats configuration @ 30,000 seats*





































The updated render that is Pan American Games specific:


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## soup or man

Here is a rendering of the 49ers stadium in Santa Clara that I've never seen before.










Not bad.


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## weava

Scba said:


> It's official now; UFL Omaha WILL play at Ameritrade in 2011.


any renders of football mode?


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## Scba

Not horrible. And if attendance is through the roof, they could probably line up some temporary bleachers in the outfield...


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## Scba

Construction photos show a LOT of progress. Looks like the second deck is just about done.

Creighton is playing some larger games there in 2011, and all games in 2012. 

The UFL's Omaha Nighthawks are still on to play in fall 2011, after a season at old Rosenblatt. Ticket sales seem to be good, so there shouldn't be a problem selling out/adding seats for football.


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## htpwn

> The facilitated talks between the Hamilton Tiger-Cats and the city have reached the end of the road without an agreement.





> The continuing impasse not only casts doubts on the viability of going ahead with a new stadium to replace the aging Ivor Wynne,* it raises questions about the long-term sustainability of the football team in Hamilton.*


http://thespec.com/Opinions/Columnist/article/800466


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## skyperu34

Very nice location for a beautiful outdoor stadium...


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## isaidso

*22,000-50,000 seat proposal*

An extension to August 31st has been granted to agree on a location for the Pan American Stadium. A downtown location was promised to the Pan American Games organization with the City of Hamilton deciding upon West Harbour which is central and on the water front.

The Hamilton Tiger-Cats football team is north America's oldest professional sports team, and would be the primary tenant after the Pan American Games. Team owner, Young, wants a car focused suburban location next to major highways. The 'East Mountain' is his desired location for the new stadium.

So it's city planners/architects/citizens vs. the wishes of a sports team owner. Honestly, Young is misguided if he thinks putting a stadium in the middle of nowhere is good for his team. Not only will it be harder for Hamiltonians to get there, but people from outside Hamilton aren't going to make a trip to a stadium in the sticks.

If people make the effort to go to Hamilton for football, they're going to want to see the city as well. The East Harbour location is 11-12 km from downtown. What is one supposed to do before and after the game? Look at the highway? Here below is an another proposal for the downtown West Harbour site. Not only is this a place that would attract people all day long, but it's near a major rail/transit corridor. People from outside Hamilton could simply get off at the station and walk over. 

*Another design for the West Harbour location (downtown)*




























http://hamiltonbay.blogspot.com/p/vision-for-future.html


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## isaidso

*Extra shots*


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## isaidso

*Some more that depicts what could be built around the West Harbour Stadium*


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## isaidso

I could certainly see myself hanging out here! This is what is going to secure the Tiger-Cats future, not being next to a highway. Why can't Young see that? This is fabulous! kay:


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## jetstar

i'm looking forward to see this new facitly be finish. greeting from hamilton.:cheers:


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## KingmanIII

Whoa, that West Harbour design looks way better than the old one.


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## zebrahead

yeah, I too am loving it... I hope they ditch the east mountain proposal... what's the point of a stadium in suburbia? if that's they fdirection they want to take they might as well build it next to the airport and get it out of town all together!


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## KingmanIII

^^ Not only that, with the Ti-Cats stinking up the joint like they've been, I don't think the owner should be making these types of demands which run contrary to the wishes of the host city.

Seriously, how do you lose double-digit games every season with Tre Smith and JESSE FREAKING LUMSDEN in the same backfield, even with all his injury woes? Sad.


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## JYDA

Reminds me of Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis


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## weava

I love the new stadium design.


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## isaidso

KingmanIII said:


> ^^ Not only that, with the Ti-Cats stinking up the joint like they've been, I don't think the owner should be making these types of demands which run contrary to the wishes of the host city.


Team owner, Young, is the Tiger-Cats' own worst enemy right now. He wants to reach out to potential fans in Niagara, KW, Guelph, London, Oakville, and the Greater Toronto Area, but thinks he needs a location next to highways to do it.

If I'm going to travel all the way to Hamilton to see football, I want to see some of Hamilton too. I don't want to get stuck in the middle of nowhere. What am I supposed to do before and after the game? Stare at the highway?

The West Harbour City proposal above is enough to make me a season's ticket holder, and I live in Toronto. I'm not about to make the trek to East Mountain in the middle of the sticks.

Btw, the Tiger-Cats looked really good Friday night. Quarterback Glenn made 29 out of 36 for 336 yards and 3 touchdowns in a 28-7 thumping of the Winnipeg Bluebombers. Play like that all year and they'll go all the way to the Eastern Final.


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## isaidso

Whitestar Group's updated images for the West Harbour site:












































* Since 1869!*


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## KingmanIII

All I can say is, if Bob Young won't take the West Harbour design, I know a few NCAA DI programs who might.

How much money are they talking for this?


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## Walbanger

Geezuz, that is very sharp. The CFL look like they could have some real stadium gems for the smaller city teams. Looking good guys.


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## Archbishop

That looks a lot like Lucas Oil Stadium! I love it!


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## isaidso

^^ It does, and I love Lucas Oil Stadium.



KingmanIII said:


> All I can say is, if Bob Young won't take the West Harbour design, I know a few NCAA DI programs who might.
> 
> How much money are they talking for this?


I heard roughly $500 million, but that would include upgrading the entire site: adjacent buildings, road work, rail station upgrade, etc. There is nothing in the area presently except for rail. 

I'm not sure what the cost would be just for the stadium.



Walbanger said:


> Geezuz, that is very sharp. The CFL look like they could have some real stadium gems for the smaller city teams. Looking good guys.


It's a sigh of relief for football fans in Canada. We've watched as league after league refurbished, renovated, or built fabulous new facilities while much of our football league continued to suffer in 60-100 year old stadiums. Within 4 years, it's likely that Commonwealth in Edmonton, McMahon in Calgary, and Skydome in Toronto will be the shoddiest stadiums in the league. 

A combination of age, horrific sight lines, and a hostile landlord would easily rank Skydome in Toronto as the worst football stadium. After the current stadium boom, it's the Argonauts who desperately need a proper football stadium. Skydome has been a disaster for football from the very start.


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## Bobby3

That new design looks fantastic, what team in their right mind wouldn't want to move into that?


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## isaidso

Bobby3 said:


> That new design looks fantastic, what team in their right mind wouldn't want to move into that?


Honestly, I don't get it either. Hopefully, either he'll see the light before the opportunity passes or the city/Games Committee will soldier on with this West Harbour proposal with or without Young's support. If it gets built, I doubt he'll keep the Tiger-Cats at Ivor Wynne.


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## krudmonk

That is a beautiful design.


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## Steeltown

Where Bob Young wants to put the stadium in Hamilton.









Proposed East Mountain Pan Am Stadium site


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## kuquito

too bad a running track can't be squeezed inside the Rogers Centre


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## Steeltown

*Group offers to build west harbour stadium* 

July 28, 2010 
By Danielle Wong
http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/815920

The White Star Group has sent a letter to city council announcing it is prepared to enter into an agreement with the city, province, Katz and AEG Management Group and the Tiger Cats to build a new west harbour Pan Am stadium. 


The e-mail, which was sent to councillors and Mayor Fred Eisenberger late Tuesday, says the White Star Group is willing to build a retractable roof stadium at the west harbour site and provide funds over and above the $110 million slated by municipal, provincial and federal governments. 


The group is proposing to build and own the stadium and give the city a leaseback with the option to buy, “with the understanding that Katz, AEG, would manage the facility and the Tiger Cats organization would work out with the management the preferred 10 Games committee requirements.”


Tourism executive director David Adames said tonight it’s too early to tell how much a game changer the letter is. 


The letter will be discussed at the mayor’s Pan Am advisory board’s next meeting Tuesday. 

Adames said he will be calling White Star property owner Marino Rakovac Thursday to learn more about the proposal.


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## isaidso

kuquito said:


> too bad a running track can't be squeezed inside the Rogers Centre


They squeezed a football field in there with awful results and you want to make it even worse by shoving a track in there too? Athletics tracks kill the football experience. 

That stadium is only good for baseball. Almost everything else is a complete disaster in that facility.


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## Archbishop

Take away the track and the 22,000 seat version would be amazingly perfect for an MLS team.


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## koolio

The track events are being moved to Toronto. No new stadium for Hamilton.


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## Commandant

koolio said:


> The track events are being moved to Toronto. No new stadium for Hamilton.


Hopefully they still get the stadium. I'd hate to see a great design like this put on the scrapheap.


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## carnifex2005

koolio said:


> The track events are being moved to Toronto. No new stadium for Hamilton.


Not necessarily. This is actually may be great news for the Ti-Cats and Canadian soccer. Most of the soccer games are now going to go to Hamilton. They can get their stadium now without the god awful track and Bob Young (owner of the Ti-Cats) is now going to apply for an NASL franchise to play in the Pan-Am stadium. I suspect he will fight tooth and nail to shut out Katz and this Whitestar group so that he can keep all revenue from the new stadium.


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## koolio

I doubt they'd be able to build a soccer stadium of similar scale as the proposed track stadium simply because it would be a massive waste of money considering how the government has already funded BMO Field in the past. In the end, I think BMO Field will end up being the primary stadium while David Brayley will become the secondary venue. I know that Ian Troop said that all games will be moved to Hamilton but I have serious doubts.


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## carnifex2005

koolio said:


> I doubt they'd be able to build a soccer stadium of similar scale as the proposed track stadium simply because it would be a massive waste of money considering how the government has already funded BMO Field in the past. In the end, I think BMO Field will end up being the primary stadium while David Brayley will become the secondary venue. I know that Ian Troop said that all games will be moved to Hamilton but I have serious doubts.


It wouldn't be a soccer stadium though. It would be a football stadium that would host soccer games during a 3 week period. I know it is semantics but the future plans for any stadium, track or soccer, was always going to have the Ti-Cats as primary tenants post-games. The plans for a NASL franchise and soccer academy is also something that could help fill dates at the stadium.


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## slipperydog

It's nothing special, but it definitely doesn't deserve all the hate being directed its way. It's a perfectly suitable stadium, and let's be honest, as long as they are out of the Stick, that's an improvement.


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## derzberb

desertpunk said:


> Looks awful. Like a college stadium. FAIL


What is awful about college stadiums? Those college-patchwork-stadiums are simply exciting. These state-of-the-art-stadiums create no athmosphere, they are simply boring, sterile.

Stadium must breathe the athmosphere of beer, hotdog, mustard and ketchup-dirt on the ground and on the seat (that's it - life stinks), pop-corn, cheering and so on. Theses new stadia look and feel like properly cleaned dining room of Mr and Misses New Money.


----------



## bd popeye

> Theses new stadia look and feel like properly cleaned dining room of Mr and Misses New Money.


True and like it or not rich corporate America in the US is taking over stadiums (season tickets) using games as social events to woo clients and customers. And the owners are pricing the Regular Joe Six pack fan out of the stadium. This in my opinion is happening in all major sports in the US.


----------



## Bobby3

The 49ers proposal is a bad ripoff of Lincoln Financial Field, which was designed by a guy with a phobia of all things round.


----------



## JJG

Ok, seriously, this stadium does NOT look bad. 

I don't get all the hate.....


----------



## desertpunk

derzberb said:


> What is awful about college stadiums? Those college-patchwork-stadiums are simply exciting. These state-of-the-art-stadiums create no athmosphere, they are simply boring, sterile.
> 
> Stadium must breathe the athmosphere of beer, hotdog, mustard and ketchup-dirt on the ground and on the seat (that's it - life stinks), pop-corn, cheering and so on. Theses new stadia look and feel like properly cleaned dining room of Mr and Misses New Money.


Well if you like "patchwork stadiums", this is the one for you!


----------



## T74

derzberb said:


> What is awful about college stadiums? Those college-patchwork-stadiums are simply exciting. These state-of-the-art-stadiums create no athmosphere, they are simply boring, sterile.
> 
> Stadium must breathe the athmosphere of beer, hotdog, mustard and ketchup-dirt on the ground and on the seat (that's it - life stinks), pop-corn, cheering and so on. Theses new stadia look and feel like properly cleaned dining room of Mr and Misses New Money.


tend to agree with this

the obsession with bubbles and domes and roofing everything in world sport these days is taking something away from the game


----------



## Topher51

T74 said:


> tend to agree with this
> 
> the obsession with bubbles and domes and roofing everything in world sport these days is taking something away from the game


I would think that the European crowd would prefer the patchwork of the US college stadiums to the pros since like many of their football stadiums, they started out as small venues decades ago and have grown to accommodate the fan base. 

No matter what you think of the Niner's new stadium, it is better than what they have now. Except for location, of course.


----------



## rantanamo

massp88 said:


> What is so special about the New Cowboys Stadium? If having 5 tiers of luxury boxes and a general sterile feel is to be considered the new norm/curve, then sure the new 49ers Stadium will be below the curve.
> 
> While I don't like having all the suites bunched together, I think this is a new style of design and looks better than most other modern NFL stadiums.


Cowboys Stadium has an arena like finish out. Heck, most arenas are finished out as nicely. Most pictures don't do justice to just how nice and complete of a feel the place has even compared to UofP and Reliant(Reliant is pretty damned nice though). It really is the first large stadium I've seen that looks like no corner was cut anywhere. Even the concrete is all polished and stained. The glass on the outside is really spectacularly clear looking as well. You can really tell it is a special glass. It really is sparkling. It feels really large, but I wouldn't say sterile at all.

I think some are referring to the new 49ers stadium simply not having that look of incredible finish out on the bleacher sides. Its more like something you'd see at Arrowhead. I don't think it looks bad, but if its as windy as Candlestick, they need to go ahead and cover those stands. I understand the point of keeping it open, but its just not something you see anymore outside of upper concourses. I love the bowl design though.


----------



## Bobby3

Topher51 said:


> I would think that the European crowd would prefer the patchwork of the US college stadiums to the pros since like many of their football stadiums, they started out as small venues decades ago and have grown to accommodate the fan base.
> 
> No matter what you think of the Niner's new stadium, it is better than what they have now. Except for location, of course.


That isn't saying much though, Candlestick (and it's neighbor across the bay) is among the worst venues in American pro sports.


----------



## Jericho-79

Since we're all talking about California NFL/MLB stadiums-

Who here has hope that that New Los Angeles Stadium (courtesy of Roski) in Industry will actually be constructed?


----------



## weava

rantanamo said:


> I think some are referring to the new 49ers stadium simply not having that look of incredible finish out on the bleacher sides. Its more like something you'd see at Arrowhead. I don't think it looks bad, but if its as windy as Candlestick, they need to go ahead and cover those stands. I understand the point of keeping it open, but its just not something you see anymore outside of upper concourses. I love the bowl design though.


That stadium is nothing like arrowhead. I read back when the design was first released that the openings in the corners were purposely designed as to allow the wind to flow through in a way that wouldn't create the crosswind problems that candlestick has.


----------



## hngcm

Jericho-79 said:


> Since we're all talking about California NFL/MLB stadiums-
> 
> Who here has hope that that New Los Angeles Stadium (courtesy of Roski) in Industry will actually be constructed?


I hope it crashes and burns.


----------



## slipperydog

Jericho-79 said:


> Since we're all talking about California NFL/MLB stadiums-
> 
> Who here has hope that that New Los Angeles Stadium (courtesy of Roski) in Industry will actually be constructed?


I'm hoping the downtown AEG/Leiweke stadium gets built instead...


----------



## bd popeye

^^.. The fine citizens of Los Angeles have been _talking_ about building new stadiums or remodeling the Memorial Coliseum since the Rams and Raiders left LA in 1994. So far not a single shovel full of dirt has been turned.:|


----------



## carnifex2005

bd popeye said:


> ^^.. The fine citizens of Los Angeles have been _talking_ about building new stadiums or remodeling the Memorial Coliseum since the Rams and Raiders left LA in 1994. So far not a single shovel full of dirt has been turned.:|


Because the citizens are smart enough not to pay for it through tax dollars. Good for them I say. If the NFL is such a good business then someone would build a stadium out of their own pocket. I always laugh when cities are afraid when their teams threaten to move to LA when no one in LA is going to build a stadium for any team. Such an empty threat yet cities fall for it all the time.


----------



## dfwabel

But now it may be built, but with no tenant. But where can the Ti-Cats really go? Halifax or another city in Nova Scotia?

http://tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=330136

From the story:

_HAMILTON, Ont. -- After a marathon meeting, Hamilton's city council voted to build a controversial new stadium at a downtown site, but it's now unclear just who will be using it.

Plans had been for the facility to host the 2015 Pan Am Games before becoming the new home for the CFL's Hamilton Tiger-Cats.

Tuesday's vote followed months of negotiations that saw stadium supporters divided between two proposed sites -- downtown's West Harbour and the Ticats favoured East Mountain site.

Councillor Bob Bratina said the vote was 12 to 3 in favour of the West Harbour site, but councillors are now faced with trying to lure the city's CFL team to the facility.

Ticats owner Bob Young made a bombshell announcement Monday saying he was withdrawing his support for the proposed stadium negotiations.

Hamilton's councillors are now trying to change his mind.

"We have to first of all try to re-establish some kind of relationship with the Tiger-Cats," Bratina said moments after the vote.

"Apparently they've been avoiding our attempts to contact them in the last couple of days -- or they haven't responded at least."

An amendment was made before Tuesday night's voting that required city council to approach the Ticats to try to find a solution to the impasse, but one has yet to be reached.

The Ticats announcement leaves the CFL club with no place to play after its lease at aging Ivor Wynne Stadium runs out in 2011._


----------



## bd popeye

carnifex2005 said:


> Because the citizens are smart enough not to pay for it through tax dollars. Good for them I say. If the NFL is such a good business then someone would build a stadium out of their own pocket. I always laugh when cities are afraid when their teams threaten to move to LA when no one in LA is going to build a stadium for any team. Such an empty threat yet cities fall for it all the time.


...and I agree. Teams have many times threatened cities to leave if they don't get a new playpen. In some cases it works..in many it does not.


----------



## carnifex2005

dfwabel said:


> But now it may be built, but with no tenant. But where can the Ti-Cats really go? Halifax or another city in Nova Scotia?
> 
> http://tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=330136
> 
> From the story:
> 
> _HAMILTON, Ont. -- After a marathon meeting, Hamilton's city council voted to build a controversial new stadium at a downtown site, but it's now unclear just who will be using it.
> 
> Plans had been for the facility to host the 2015 Pan Am Games before becoming the new home for the CFL's Hamilton Tiger-Cats.
> 
> Tuesday's vote followed months of negotiations that saw stadium supporters divided between two proposed sites -- downtown's West Harbour and the Ticats favoured East Mountain site.
> 
> Councillor Bob Bratina said the vote was 12 to 3 in favour of the West Harbour site, but councillors are now faced with trying to lure the city's CFL team to the facility.
> 
> Ticats owner Bob Young made a bombshell announcement Monday saying he was withdrawing his support for the proposed stadium negotiations.
> 
> Hamilton's councillors are now trying to change his mind.
> 
> "We have to first of all try to re-establish some kind of relationship with the Tiger-Cats," Bratina said moments after the vote.
> 
> "Apparently they've been avoiding our attempts to contact them in the last couple of days -- or they haven't responded at least."
> 
> An amendment was made before Tuesday night's voting that required city council to approach the Ticats to try to find a solution to the impasse, but one has yet to be reached.
> 
> The Ticats announcement leaves the CFL club with no place to play after its lease at aging Ivor Wynne Stadium runs out in 2011._


They could go to Moncton, Quebec City or sell the team to Ottawa. All of the choices wouldn't be without major headaches. The funny thing is that the Pan-Am Games people may not give them the money to build the stadium since it won't be a legacy project (with no tenant post games). There have been whispers that the federal and provincial money for the stadium will just be given to other Pan-Am venues and Hamilton will get nothing. Now that would be sad yet funny at the same time.


----------



## BoulderGrad

bd popeye said:


> ...and I agree. Teams have many times threatened cities to leave if they don't get a new playpen. In some cases it works..in many it does not.


Worked twice, but not a third time in Seattle.


----------



## rantanamo

weava said:


> That stadium is nothing like arrowhead. I read back when the design was first released that the openings in the corners were purposely designed as to allow the wind to flow through in a way that wouldn't create the crosswind problems that candlestick has.


good lord. Are you disagreeing just to disagree. I was referring to the uncovered concourses. Most new stadiums don't have uncovered concourses. The new 49ers stadium drawing clearly shows uncovered concourses that are open to the elements like the old Texas Stadium or Arrowhead.


----------



## bd popeye

> The new 49ers stadium drawing clearly shows uncovered concourses that are open to the elements like the old Texas Stadium or Arrowhead.


No real need for enclosed concourses in California because of the lack of precipitation and mild tempatures. 



> The annual average precipitation at Santa Clara is 15.08 Inches. Rainfall in is fairly evenly distributed throughout the year. The wettest month of the year is January with an average rainfall of 3.03 Inches.


----------



## rantanamo

bd popeye said:


> No real need for enclosed concourses in California because of the lack of precipitation and mild tempatures.


I've been there in December and January. It wasn't exactly mild there. Looking up the averages, that aren't that far off from Dallas in the winter, and there really is only about a 15 degree increase in averages in the summer. Not exactly San Diego late in the season.


----------



## bd popeye

rantanamo said:


> I've been there in December and January. It wasn't exactly mild there. Looking up the averages, that aren't that far off from Dallas in the winter, and there really is only about a 15 degree increase in averages in the summer. Not exactly San Diego late in the season.


But... It will never snow in Santa Clara like Dallas _sometimes_ in the winter. Never will it ever get that cold..unless there's another ice age.

Let's see in November the average hi in SC is 65F the low 45F.. January it dips to a frigid 59F for a high and 42F for an average low. Dallas is 55F and 36F.. But it does snow on occasion.

Well us nerds never go outside anyway!! Bottom line is I hope the 49ers new stadium is built. Period!


----------



## Calvin W

bd popeye said:


> But... It will never snow in Santa Clara like Dallas _sometimes_ in the winter. Never will it ever get that cold..unless there's another ice age.
> 
> Let's see in November the average hi in SC is 65F the low 45F.. January it dips to a frigid 59F for a high and 42F for an average low. Dallas is 55F and 36F.. But it does snow on occasion.
> 
> Well us nerds never go outside anyway!! Bottom line is I hope the 49ers new stadium is built. Period!


Wow 55F is so cold! Not. No need for a domed stadium in weather like that. Most NORTHERN cities in the USA would love to be that warm at that time of the year. Guess fans must be soft down there.:lol:


----------



## rantanamo

Calvin W said:


> Wow 55F is so cold! Not. No need for a domed stadium in weather like that. Most NORTHERN cities in the USA would love to be that warm at that time of the year. Guess fans must be soft down there.:lol:


The point is not about domes. The point is, that's an expensive stadium that lacks some of the basic architectural treatments. You simply don't see stadiums done like that anymore. Despite them claiming so, there's no advantage of open concourses like that. They actually take away some of marketing opportunities that companies like to take advantage of in concourses(that = money). My statement about temperature is that are claiming some warmness to the open concourses, when its not all that warm there later in the season.

Again, its something that new stadiums simply are NOT doing. Especially for that cost. I imagine the stadium will be plenty luxurious inside and be green as all get out, but don't claim some design innovation for something that has gone on for most of stadium building history. Especially at that price.


----------



## bd popeye

^^ All the high rollers in their club suites and club seating in that new 49ers stadium will have enclosed concourses.. And if you look at the artist renderings of the stadium....well... I like it..

http://www.49ersnewstadium.com/49ers.html#/home

http://www.49ersnewstadium.com/49ers.html#/page-2


----------



## Steeltown

*A pitch for pro soccer *
Hamilton 'ripe' for a team, say Canadian greats 

John Kernaghan
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/249030--a-pitch-for-pro-soccer

A business plan based on soccer and other activities is enough to support a 15,000- to 20,000-seat Pan Am Games stadium in the west harbour, says Hamilton's best-known soccer player.

"We could have some of the best soccer ever played on Canadian soil here in Hamilton," said John McGrane. "You could have a Manchester United, a Chelsea, an Inter Milan playing in Hamilton."

His comments come as city staff develop a Plan B to establish that a $100-million to $150-million stadium can be sustainable without the Tiger-Cats.

The former national-team star, recent hall-of-famer and sports businessman said the critical mass is in place to make it work.

"But the No.1 priority right now has to be the Tiger-Cats," he stressed. "I'm a fan and want them to stay. It would be better for the taxpayer if you had the Ticats and soccer in a stadium."

The city's Pan Am expert, David Adames, said soccer has always been part of the plan for the stadium. The city will be reaching out to the national and provincial soccer associations and people like McGrane as it develops its case.

Soccer became more important after Athletics Canada was successful in getting track and field moved from Hamilton to Toronto. Soccer replaced those events for the 2015 Games.

McGrane, who Ticats owner Bob Young sought out before he proposed a North American Soccer League team for the east Mountain, said simple math indicates the game can flourish from the developmental to the pro level in Hamilton.

"There are close to 28,000 people playing soccer in Hamilton. That means their families and friends -- around 200,000 people or almost half of the city's population -- are touched by soccer."

He said the soccer legacy from the Pan Am Games, in concert with attendant Canadian Soccer Association programs, would vastly improve local development.

The former general manager of the Hamilton Steelers says that means local players competing as pros before home crowds.

"That's the exciting legacy that has been lost in the stadium debate."

A voice from Canada's West Coast agrees with this assessment.

Vancouver Whitecaps president Bob Lenarduzzi says Hamilton is "absolutely" primed for a soccer surge.

Lenarduzzi, whose Whitecaps will move from a second division level to Major League Soccer next year, said the city could support a second division or NASL-level team that would play around 20 home games annually.

And that does not mean second-rate, he pointed out.

"You can't compare it to the NHL and AHL," Lenarduzzi said.

The Whitecaps have a winning record against Toronto FC of the MLS in the national pro championship tournament and NASL teams have upset higher-ranked teams.

So a Hamilton team would meet the Toronto team annually even though they are in different leagues.


----------



## Calvin W

rantanamo said:


> The point is not about domes. The point is, that's an expensive stadium that lacks some of the basic architectural treatments. You simply don't see stadiums done like that anymore. Despite them claiming so, there's no advantage of open concourses like that. They actually take away some of marketing opportunities that companies like to take advantage of in concourses(that = money). My statement about temperature is that are claiming some warmness to the open concourses, when its not all that warm there later in the season.
> 
> Again, its something that new stadiums simply are NOT doing. Especially for that cost. I imagine the stadium will be plenty luxurious inside and be green as all get out, but don't claim some design innovation for something that has gone on for most of stadium building history. Especially at that price.


Then why note state that fact instead of bringing up the temp, which isn't a factor?:nuts:


----------



## JJG

*PRAIRIE VIEW - PVAMU Athletic Complex: New Football Stadium [name TBD] (15,000)*










I feel that as a student of this school, I have to post it. No one else will....

As the main feature of the new athletic complex, Prairie View A&M University's football team is getting a well deserved new stadium. As seen here.









(The rendering you see is well over 15,000, of course. This is just the final phase of the entire plan.)

The Presentation

Here's all the plans from the firm responsible for this project.

Smith & Company Architects

The $34 million football stadium will be built south of the current "stadium" (which will be converted into the soccer/track facility), the 15,000 seat stadium will feature:

- FieldTurf
- Club seating
- 12 luxury boxes
- an Athletic Department building on the north side
- locker rooms (that's a big deal because the teams have to use the basketball arena's locker rooms)
- workout facility
- areas for classes
- position meeting rooms
- administrative offices
- and even a memorabilia area.

Considering that the current football stadium looks like this....










































.... and the rest of the facilities look like this....



















































This is a much... MUCH needed project.


----------



## rantanamo

Greatest band stadium of all-time.

Just kidding. My sister goes to PView, so I'm just teasing.


----------



## eMKay

That is a much needed upgrade indeed, I've seen high schools with much better facilities.


----------



## crazyalex

Why Cowboy Stadium got 4 votes, Louisiana Superdome got none ?


----------



## JJG

crazyalex said:


> Why Cowboy Stadium got 4 votes, Louisiana Superdome got none ?


Because people have there own biases and hatred for certain teams.....


But yeah, when I first stepped on campus and saw the stadium, my first reaction was: "WTF is this?" 
It's _still_ my reaction even 4 years after.... It makes me wanna vomit.
And to rantanamo, don't take this the wrong way, but who's ya sister?


----------



## rantanamo

JJG said:


> Because people have there own biases and hatred for certain teams.....
> 
> 
> But yeah, when I first stepped on campus and saw the stadium, my first reaction was: "WTF is this?"
> It's _still_ my reaction even 4 years after.... It makes me wanna vomit.
> And to rantanamo, don't take this the wrong way, but who's ya sister?


incoming freshman :bash: Taking her down in the morning.


----------



## JJG

rantanamo said:


> incoming freshman :bash: Taking her down in the morning.


Ok.

Just give her the advice to stay away from MOST of the dudes there, and she'll be fine. Wish her all the luck in the world.


----------



## JJG

eMKay said:


> That is a much needed upgrade indeed, I've seen *high schools with much better facilities*.


I can't begin to tell you how many time's I've heard and said that....


----------



## slipperydog

eMKay said:


> That is a much needed upgrade indeed, I've seen high schools with much better facilities.


Not to nitpick, but that wouldn't really shock me. Many high schools have much more capital to invest in their facilities than lots of smaller colleges across the country.

Fantastic news for PV though! It's easy to feel out-done in a football state like Texas.


----------



## carnifex2005

*ALLEN - Allen High School Football Stadium (18,000)*

News from April but here's a story about a new high school football stadium that will cost $60 million dollars and will seat 18,000. I wonder if this will be the beginning of an arms race of trying to further monetizing high school sports just like the NCAA does.

The new stadium will feature:

* Video Scoreboard
* Two level press box with film deck and Observation deck
* Home side reserved seating with seat backs
* 1,5000 additional parking spaces with 4,500 total parking spaces
* 18,000 seat Stadium with upper deck seating including:
o 5,000 reserved seating,
o 2,700 General Admission
o 4,000 Students
o 5,300 Visitor
o 1,000 Band





























Here's a pdf with more information and renders...


----------



## Mr. Fitz

Stadium isn't big enough for a thread I'm afraid mate.


----------



## JJG

It's a HIGH SCHOOL stadium.... 

I think it should be an exception. 


lol... 18,000 for High School football..... only in Texas.


----------



## KingmanIII




----------



## rantanamo

carnifex2005 said:


> News from April but here's a story about a new high school football stadium that will cost $60 million dollars and will seat 18,000. I wonder if this will be the beginning of an arms race of trying to further monetizing high school sports just like the NCAA does.


This war started in Texas a while ago. I had a thread a while ago dedicated to them. This is simply the new top dog.


----------



## Benn

Suppose someone was bound to one up Midland eventually. Bigger and fancier than a lot of FCS facilities. Little ridiculous, in this part of the country 4,000 is big for a high school, the one that I went to has 2,500 bleacher seats and that is about it (no on site concessions stands or restrooms, in the school itself though), finally replaced the track and maybe some day there will be lights.


----------



## Richo83

Calvin W said:


> Wow 55F is so cold! Not. No need for a domed stadium in weather like that. Most NORTHERN cities in the USA would love to be that warm at that time of the year. Guess fans must be soft down there.:lol:


55F is about 13c, that's pretty damn cold.


----------



## Calvin W

Richo83 said:


> 55F is about 13c, that's pretty damn cold.


Throw a minus sign in front of that and then it is starting to get cold. People are weak!


----------



## en1044

Richo83 said:


> 55F is about 13c, that's pretty damn cold.


Is this a poor attempt at sarcasm?


----------



## soup or man

Richo83 said:


> 55F is about 13c, that's pretty damn cold.


55F is NOT cold. Do I have to pull out the Ice Bowl vid again?

THIS is cold.


----------



## Richo83

en1044 said:


> Is this a poor attempt at sarcasm?


I'm lame at sarcasm yes, but no it's not. Some people do find 55f cold, I am one of them. Admittedly, I like to watch sports in comfortable temperatures 60+, which is why at times I'm bothered, should I be picked on for wanting to enjoy myself outside? This is why summer sports are popular, because watching sport in warmth is enjoyable as opposed to freezing your arse off. Where I'm from, 55f is a cold average winter day.


----------



## en1044

Richo83 said:


> I'm lame at sarcasm yes, but no it's not. Some people do find 55f cold, I am one of them. Admittedly, I like to watch sports in comfortable temperatures 60+, which is why at times I'm bothered, should I be picked on for wanting to enjoy myself outside? This is why summer sports are popular, because watching sport in warmth is enjoyable as opposed to freezing your arse off. Where I'm from, 55f is a cold average winter day.


May I ask where you are from?


----------



## eMKay

Richo83 said:


> 55F is about 13c, that's pretty damn cold.


:lol: that's T-shirt weather here.


----------



## soup or man

It's going to be pretty hard for anyone to beat this. This is what happens when the Carolina Panthers score.


----------



## Sonrise

Richo83 said:


> 55F is about 13c, that's pretty damn cold.


You're joking right?


----------



## Sonrise

en1044 said:


> May I ask where you are from?


Wussville. 

Just kidding; kinda.


----------



## JJG

soup or man said:


> It's going to be pretty hard for anyone to beat this. This is what happens when the Carolina Panthers score.


OH that's just not fair..... :lol:

Pretty awesome.


----------



## Richo83

en1044 said:


> May I ask where you are from?


I'm from Melbourne, Australia. 55f is about 13 degrees Celsius which is slightly below the average maximum temperature in the coldest month in winter, which is July. Winter = cold. I only watch sports in winter because I have to (because they're played during winter). I know some here might find me soft but I don't appreciate cold windy weather!


----------



## soup or man

Richo83 said:


> I'm from Melbourne, Australia. 55f is about 13 degrees Celsius which is slightly below the average maximum temperature in the coldest month in winter, which is July. Winter = cold. I only watch sports in winter because I have to (because they're played during winter). I know some here might find me soft but I don't appreciate cold windy weather!


You need to do some push-up's.


----------



## Archbishop

55 degrees is warm for the winter. Actually it's very hot for the winter. That's weak!


----------



## Richo83

I didn't think my statement would shock so many people, I mean considering Melbourne's winter is cold compared to most other Australian cities, really most aussies would find 55f very cold in winter, it's just our cities I guess! We don't have snow in winter which might explain things. Only Hobart and Canberra are colder and no-one wants to live there because... everyone thinks they're freaking cold!


----------



## Richo83

...


----------



## bd popeye

Excellent thread once again Commandant!



Buffalo Civic Stadium aka War Memorial Stadium Buffalo NY.. aka >>> The Rockpile. In it's orginal configuration as built by the WPA in 1937.

The Rockpile



> Originally named Civic Stadium, the Rockpile was built as a WPA project, a federally funded make work program administrated by President Franklin D. Roosevelt during the depression years. Construction started in 1935 and after three years its doors opened in 1938. Back then Buffalo didn't have a professional football franchise so after it opened and through the World War II years, Civic Stadium was used mostly for parades and civic gatherings. The AAA baseball Bisons played their games in Offermann Stadium, a few blocks away on Michigan and East Ferry Street.
> 
> It wasn't until 1947, when the Buffalo Bills of the newly formed All American Football Conference, decided to call Civic Stadium its home. The Bills fielded very competitive teams back then, twice finishing second in their division to the mighty Cleveland Browns, who's roster featured future pro football hall of famers, Otto Graham, Marion Motley and Lou Groza and a guy named Don Shula. Fans flocked to the Rockpile to watch some exiting football back then and in 1949 when talks of the AAFC merging with the established NFL arose, it seemed Civic Stadium and Buffalo, N.Y. were headed into the big time. This was not to be however, as the NFL only absorbed the Browns, the San Francisco 49ers and the lowly Baltimore Colts. Most of the Bills better players were added to the Browns roster. During the decade of the 1950's, Civic Stadium turned into a stock car racing venue.
> 
> In 1959, Buffalo learned that it would be awarded a professional football franchise once again, this time in the newly formed American Football League. Detroit businessman, Ralph C. Wilson Jr. was a minority owner of the Detroit Lions but longed to own his own team. Wilson had originally wanted to place a team in his winter home of Miami, Florida but after being spurned by the Orange Bowl, Wilson was informed about the loyal fans of Buffalo and its stadium.
> 
> In 1960, Offermann Stadium was closed and demolished to make way for a new public school and the Bisons joined the Bills in newly renamed War Memorial Stadium and it was during the ensuing decade that the Rockpile would experience its hey day. Both the Bisons and the Bills would win championships inside the friendly confines of War Memorial Stadium. The Bills' teams featured such players as fullback Cookie Gilchrist, quarterbacks Jack Kemp and Darryl Lamonica, defensive linemen Tom Sestack and Ron McDole, future hall of famer Billy Shaw, punter Paul Maguire and pro football's first soccer-style kicker Pete Gogolak. The Bisons fielded a future hall of famer too in catcher, Johnny Bench. It all came to end in the early seventies when the Bills moved into there new suburban home, Rich Stadium and the Bisons moved to Winnipeg, Canada. The Rockpile sat unused from 1973 till 1979 when minor league baseball returned and was played there until 1988.


----------



## bd popeye

> Lane Field original configuration San Diego CA 1936




From wiki..



> Lane Field is a former baseball stadium located in San Diego, California. The ballpark was home to the San Diego Padres of the Pacific Coast League from 1936 through 1957.
> 
> The ballpark was located in downtown San Diego, at the end of West Broadway near the waterfront. Broadway bounded the park to the south (first base). Its other two close bounding streets were Harbor Drive (third base) and Pacific Highway (right field). There were various buildings to the north (left field) between the ballpark and Ash Street.
> 
> Before it was called Lane Field, the stadium began its life as a U.S. Navy athletic field in 1925. Two years later, football bleachers were added. The field also had a track, used for motorcycle and auto races. When Bill "Hardpan" Lane relocated his Hollywood Stars from the Los Angeles area in 1936, he arranged for the Works Progress Administration to rebuild the venue as a baseball park. Although the WPA was known by the derisive nickname "We Putter Around", there was apparently no puttering in this project, as they finished the work in just two months time.
> 
> The new construction had a temporary look to it. The park had no roof, no lights, and not even a backstop. Its bleachers sat 8,000. The original entrance, a small Spanish-architecture structure, was retained for the ballpark, behind where the home plate area was established.
> 
> According to a 2004 San Diego Union-Tribune article, the original field dimensions were 339 feet to the left field foul pole, 480 to the deepest part of center field, and 355 feet to right, a large rectangle. Along with the other remodeling, the dimensions were eventually reduced to a more normal size: 329 to left, 426 to center, 330 to right.
> 
> The first Padres game at Lane Field was played on March 31, 1936. The next year, a roof was added over the main part of the seating, and attendance improved. Attendance was boosted by a PCL pennant winning team and the attraction of budding young local star Ted Williams.
> 
> The Padres would win another PCL pennant in 1954. By then they had begun to look for a new facility. The wooden park, so near the waterfront in a presumably picturesque setting, was also constantly in need of repair and replacement of its boards, which tended to rot quickly in the sea air.
> 
> Lane Field was finally abandoned by the Padres following the 1957 PCL season. The next season, the team shifted to the new Westgate Park, located in San Diego's Mission Valley area.
> 
> The site of Lane Field is now Cruise Ship Parking, a parking lot between Pacific Highway and Harbor Drive which is used by cruise ship passengers. It is located approximately halfway between the museum ships Star of India and USS Midway. A plaque at the corner of Broadway and Pacific Highway commemorates the ballpark.


----------



## will101

Commandant said:


> San Jose Municipal Stadium (1942), San Jose, California (thanks to littleballparks.com for pics)


Ah, my home town ballpark. Cramped, dingy and way out of date, there won't be many tears shed when it's gone. The players hate it because home-to-second points SSW, which means right handed batters face into the Sun in the late afternoon. About 20 years ago the locker rooms were made 4X larger, and they are still the smallest in the California League. And the legroom for fans (I'm 6-3) is horrible. The team has actually discussed closing the concession stands inside the grandstand, and building new ones just outside.

A while back some Silicon Valley gazillionaire was making noises about building a new grandstand beyond center field, and during the off season flipping the field 180 degrees. But that talk dried up after the dot crash, and the possibility of the A's moving down here seems to have killed the plan for good. Which is unfortunate. I like minor league baseball, and having to drive to Modesto or Stockton to watch it is a depressing thought.


----------



## Bobby3

Yea, legroom is an issue at old stadiums like that. I'm 6'7", so I feel your pain -- quite literally.


----------



## KingmanIII

Commandant said:


> Tad Gormley Stadium (1937), New Orleans, Louisiana


Tulane should fix it up and move there.


----------



## Bobby3

They've used it a couple of times, some fans adore it, some fans absolutely hate it.

One bonus it has over their old stadium on campus is that being a municipal venue, it can serve beer.

If it didn't have that track it'd probably be perfect for them.


----------



## mattec

KingmanIII said:


> Tulane should fix it up and move there.


Tulane is doing a study to build an on-campus stadium

They used to play a couple of games there though.


----------



## Commandant

Grape Bowl Stadium (1940), Lodi, California


----------



## Commandant

Aztec Bowl (1936), San Diego, California









Aztec Bowl today:


----------



## KingmanIII

mattec said:


> Tulane is doing a study to build an on-campus stadium


Audubon Park?


----------



## mattec

KingmanIII said:


> Audubon Park?


I think their goal is to get it as close as possible to the original Sugar Bowl as possible


----------



## Scba

Something probably obvious that I still don't get about the WPA from an economical point...where did all the money to build/pay for these projects and programs come from?


----------



## will101

Scba said:


> Something probably obvious that I still don't get about the WPA from an economical point...where did all the money to build/pay for these projects and programs come from?


They just borrowed it, thinking that the boost to the economy would cover the cost. And it worked, as the Roosevelt administration had a net budget surplus until we got into WWII.


----------



## Commandant

Roosevelt Stadium (1936-37), Jersey City, New Jersey (thanks to http://www.njcu.edu/programs/jchistory/pages/R_Pages/Roosevelt_Stadium.htm for pics)









































Civic Stadium (1938), Eugene, Oregon (thanks to digitalballparks.com for pics)


----------



## will101

Commandant said:


> Civic Stadium (1938), Eugene, Oregon (thanks to digitalballparks.com for pics)


Sadly, probably not long for the world. The Em's (Eugene Emeralds) have moved to the brand new University of Oregon ballpark, and the Y wants to buy the property to build a new community and athletic center.

http://www.democratherald.com/sports/community/article_c4b53d0c-a579-11df-8f63-001cc4c002e0.html

hno:


----------



## will101

Commandant said:


> Roosevelt Stadium (1936-37), Jersey City, New Jersey (thanks to http://www.njcu.edu/programs/jchistory/pages/R_Pages/Roosevelt_Stadium.htm for pics)


Isn't this where the Dodgers played several games in 1956-57 to show City Hall that they were seriously unhappy with their options, and thinking about leaving? IIRC their reception here was lukewarm, as this was the home of a farm club for the Giants.


----------



## bd popeye

Scba said:


> Something probably obvious that I still don't get about the WPA from an economical point...where did all the money to build/pay for these projects and programs come from?


From the Federal Government of the USA.

http://www.indiana.edu/~liblilly/wpa/wpa_info.html



> The Works Progress Administration (WPA) was a relief measure established in 1935 by executive order(President F. Roosevelt) as the Works Progress Administration, and was redesigned in 1939 when it was transferred to the Federal Works Agency. *Headed by Harry L. Hopkins and supplied with an initial congressional appropriation of $4,880,000,000, it offered work to the unemployed on an unprecedented scale by spending money on a wide variety of programs, including highways and building construction, slum clearance, reforestation, and rural rehabilitation.* So gigantic an undertaking was inevitably attended by confusion, waste, and political favoritism, yet the 'pump-priming' effect stimulated private business during the depression years and inaugurated reforms that states had been unable to subsidize.


And..

http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/couch.works.progress.administration



> WPA Projects and Procedures
> 
> The legislation that created the WPA, the Emergency Relief Appropriation Act of 1935 sailed through the House, passing by a margin of 329 to 78 but bogged down in the Senate where a vocal minority argued against the measure. Despite the opposition, the legislation passed in April of 1935.
> 
> Harry Hopkins headed the new organization. Hopkins became, “after Roosevelt, the most powerful man in the administration” (Reading 1972, pp. 16-17). All WPA administrators, whether assigned to Washington or to the agency’s state and local district offices, were employees of the federal government and all WPA workers’ wages were distributed directly from the U.S. Treasury (Kurzman 1974, p. 107). The WPA required the states to provide some of their own resources to finance projects but a specific match was never stipulated -- a fact that would later become a source of contentious debate.


----------



## Bobby3

Would be a shame if Civic Stadium closed, looks charming.

A lot of our inner city parks (Independence Park and Bryant Park chief among them) have some beautiful WPA stonework and tiny little baseball stadiums made from stone in them. They're neat.


----------



## flashman

I like the idea shown in the video for retractable seats over the track. But I'm reading that a new plan is now approved for the current football stadium. Soemthing like $150 million, but only to rebuild one half of the stadium. Very unusual. Then again, this whole project has been.


----------



## carnifex2005

dfwabel said:


> So today, the city council will vote to build a new stadium on the Ivor Wynne site. The team has signed a 20-year lease.
> 
> http://www.insidehalton.com/news/article/927773--taylor-meed-ward-talk-sense
> 
> 
> 
> Is it fair to assume that the designs here are not going to be the one chosen?


Yes. They are doing a massive renovation of Ivor Wynne instead. The stadium is only going to be used for soccer during the Pan-Am games.










The side with the press boxes is going to be renovated. Everything else (the endzones and other side) is going to be torn down and rebuilt. The new stadium will be 25,000 in size, a reduction from it's current size of 30,000 seats.


----------



## JJG

dfwabel said:


> And.....


... what? 

:dunno:
I guess this thread just got a little slow.


----------



## Commandant

Holman Stadium (1937), Nashua, New Hampshire (thanks to littleballparks.com for pics)

























Muzzy Field (1939), Bristol, Connecticut (thanks to www.digitalballparks.com for pics)


----------



## T74

What's the go with the dud seating at the superbowl?

Heard several hundred got kicked out because the seats were deemed unsafe.

Not hearing much else here, but how did this occur?


----------



## JJG

T74 said:


> What's the go with the dud seating at the superbowl?
> 
> Heard several hundred got kicked out because the seats were deemed unsafe.
> 
> Not hearing much else here, but how did this occur?


Not taking the time to actually double check the safety of the seating. That's why...


----------



## bd popeye

> Originally Posted by *T74*
> _What's the go with the dud seating at the superbowl?
> 
> Heard several hundred got kicked out because the seats were deemed unsafe.
> 
> Not hearing much else here, but how did this occur?_





JJG said:


> Not taking the time to actually double check the safety of the seating. That's why...


That was part of the problem...here's the story.



> http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/news/story?id=6096112
> 
> ARLINGTON, Texas -- After a limited number of sections in temporary seating areas at Cowboys Stadium were not completed in time, 400 fans were left without seats at Super Bowl XLV on Sunday.
> 
> Two hours before the game, workers were frantically trying to fix the sections or get the fans "relocated to similar or better seats," valued at $800. The NFL found alternate seating for 850 of the 1,250 fans affected. The 400 who were not able to be seated were given a refund of triple face value -- $2,400.
> 
> "Incomplete installation of temporary seats in a limited number of sections made the seats unusable," the NFL said in a statement. "The safety of fans attending the Super Bowl was paramount in making the decision and the NFL, Dallas Cowboys and City of Arlington officials are in agreement with the resolution. We regret the situation and inconvenience that it may have caused. We will conduct a full review of this matter."
> 
> The NFL tried to placate those 400 fans, taking them inside the stadium to watch the game on monitors in the North Field Club behind the Pittsburgh bench. They also had the option of viewing the game from standing-room platforms in each corner of the stadium. Those fans will still get the triple refund.
> 
> The fans "watched game in club w/free food, soft drinks + merchandise," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello tweeted. "The other 850 were re-located to seats in equal or better locations. NFL + Cowboys staff and families gave up seats."
> 
> After saying all week that he expected Sunday's game to set an all-time Super Bowl attendance record with 105,000 fans seated inside the stadium, Dallas Cowboys owner/general manager Jerry Jones come up short as the announced attendance of 103,219 was just shy of the 103,985 mark set in Super Bowl XIV between the Los Angeles Rams and Pittsburgh Steelers at the Rose Bowl.


----------



## Marckymarc

T74 said:


> What's the go with the dud seating at the superbowl?
> 
> Heard several hundred got kicked out because the seats were deemed unsafe.
> 
> Not hearing much else here, but how did this occur?


It occurred because of poor planning. The seating setup was illegal (safety violations):

The illegal sections had rows of seats with about 30 seats in each row. That's fine except the law (and common sense) says that you have to have exit access on _both_ sides of the row (aisles and tunnels on both sides of the section). The idiots who built these sections didn't take that into consideration. They expected _everyone_, including those sitting in the very end of those 30+ row of seats, to exit on only _one side_ of the section. That would mean some people would have to stumble across more than _30 people_ to exit their row of seats on the opposite side. Not only is this a major hassle, but in an emergency would be extremely unsafe, if not a potential death trap.


----------



## T74

Thanks for the replies guys. I was really surprised by this because I've never heard of ths kind of thing happening in the USA, and given it's the super bowl, you figure everyone triple checks everything


----------



## rantanamo

nah, the actually issue was no rail installed in the isles. This was straight from the Arlington fire chief.


----------



## Marckymarc

rantanamo said:


> nah, the actually issue was no rail installed in the isles. This was straight from the Arlington fire chief.


Thanks for the correction. makes sense. having a hand rail on a very steep aisle with a huge drop off is kind of a necessity one would think. :nuts:


----------



## sweet-d

I had no idea Taft Stadium in OKC was a WPA Stadium.


----------



## farmwolf

*Carter Finley Stadium*

Haven't seen any posts for this stadium. Anyone have any photos?


----------



## mattec

farmwolf said:


> Haven't seen any posts for this stadium. Anyone have any photos?






























with 57,583 seats, this stadium is large enough for its own thread, which I might do later


----------



## Scba

The UFL's Virginia Destroyers are planning on expanding the Virginia Beach Sportsplex from 6,000 seats to 14-17k. First images coming out...


----------



## en1044

The Sportsplex is so shitty.


----------



## metros11

en1044 said:


> The Sportsplex is so shitty.


For UFL it's perfect.


----------



## Topher51

metros11 said:


> For UFL it's perfect.


Nothing that a little paint and 8,000 more seats won't fix. 

If UFL attendance really ever takes off they'll need to upgrade the parking and traffic flow in and out of there though.


----------



## en1044

Topher51 said:


> Nothing that a little paint and 8,000 more seats won't fix.
> 
> If UFL attendance really ever takes off they'll need to upgrade the parking and traffic flow in and out of there though.


They would be better off playing at Foreman Field at Old Dominion University. It's a much nicer stadium.


----------



## Scba

From what I gather, Foreman and ODU didn't want them playing there, since their team had just been revived and they were hoping to corner off the market. They were also considering Harbor Park before picking the VBS.


----------



## KingmanIII

James Madison University's expansion of Bridgeforth Stadium to 25,000 seats is nearly complete:


----------



## Scba

Nearly complete?


----------



## KingmanIII

^^ it'll be ready by the start of the 2011 season


----------



## Commandant

Gittone Stadium (1938), Vineland, New Jersey









Tomato Bowl (1940), Jacksonville, Texas


----------



## massp88

*U.S. Team Most in Need of a New Stadium/Arena*

I am curious what you feel is the sports team located in the U.S. that is in need of a new ballpark/stadium/arena?

I am limiting this to the U.S. so the thread can be more focused.

I think the New England Revolution of the MLS need their own stadium and badly. Yes they play in Gillette which is a state of the art and great stadium, but the atmosphere is terrible. The Revs don't draw large crowds so playing in a 68,000 seat stadium with only 12-16,000 people showing up is awful.

I would also say the Boston Red Sox need a new stadium as well. I love Fenway, it's an amazing stadium and I have gone to several games there.

But I can't help but think that a new, modern and larger stadium would be a better option for Red Sox fans.


----------



## slipperydog

DC United
NE Revolution
Oakland A's

There are plenty of outdated stadiums (Chargers, 49ers, NY Islanders, etc.), but the teams above are the teams in most need of their own facility.

FWIW, I wouldn't touch Fenway. The size and location are perfect for that city and they've already renovated it. It's in pretty good shape for its age.


----------



## liebeaffe

Everything I've read says the New York Islanders need a new arena. I haven't been in the Coliseum, but I hear it is awful and outdated.


----------



## ExWNY'er

The Niners have to top the list for the NFL.


----------



## JYDA

San Jose Earthquakes. They're playing in a glorified public park


----------



## carnifex2005

ExWNY'er said:


> The Niners have to top the list for the NFL.


I would argue the Raiders but both are very close. By league I would rank them...

NFL = Oakland Raiders
MLB = Oakland A's
NBA = Sacramento Kings
NHL = NY Islanders
MLS = DC United


----------



## SJAnfield

carnifex2005 said:


> I would argue the Raiders but both are very close. By league I would rank them...
> 
> NFL = Oakland Raiders
> MLB = Oakland A's
> NBA = Sacramento Kings
> NHL = NY Islanders
> MLS = DC United


Ditto!


----------



## nomarandlee

Tampa Rays and I don't think its evern very close.


----------



## Benn

At least the Trop has okay sightlines and amenities for baseball (even if the location sucks and the roof is terrible), Candlestick and the Coliseum have awful angles for football, and the concourses at Candlestick are joke, they would have been deficient when it opened.


----------



## El Mariachi

The Milwaukee Bucks need a new arena in the next decade.


----------



## BoulderGrad

NHL:

Islanders
Red Wings
Oilers
Flames


----------



## bigbossman

what's with the general shitness of stadiums in the bay area??


----------



## BoulderGrad

bigbossman said:


> what's with the general shitness of stadiums in the bay area??


A lack of and refusal to use tax dollars to build new arenas?


----------



## mrakbaseball

massp88 said:


> I am curious what you feel is the sports team located in the U.S. that is in need of a new ballpark/stadium/arena?
> 
> I am limiting this to the U.S. so the thread can be more focused.
> 
> I think the New England Revolution of the MLS need their own stadium and badly. Yes they play in Gillette which is a state of the art and great stadium, but the atmosphere is terrible. The Revs don't draw large crowds so playing in a 68,000 seat stadium with only 12-16,000 people showing up is awful.
> 
> I would also say the Boston Red Sox need a new stadium as well. I love Fenway, it's an amazing stadium and I have gone to several games there.
> 
> But I can't help but think that a new, modern and larger stadium would be a better option for Red Sox fans.


First off, the MLS needs to fold ASAP or do America a favor and move to Argentina. :lol:

Fenway isn't being replaced anytime soon. The current Sox ownership group has spent millions upgrading it the past 8 years and the last thing the Red Sox or MLB for that matter, need, is another mallpark. Fenway's 100th anniversary is next year.
http://fenwaypark100.com

The Rays need a new ballpark or they need to contract. The A's need a new ballpark or they need to contract.


----------



## JYDA

mrakbaseball said:


> First off, the MLS needs to fold ASAP or do America a favor and move to Argentina. :lol:


I take it you haven't caught Sounders fever lol


----------



## Bobby3

Are we only talking about top level pro teams? Because there are some real howlers in the college and minor league ranks.

City Stadium in Richmond where the Richmond Kickers play and UR Spiders used to play is hilariously bad. Wallace Wade at Duke is pretty awful too.

American Legion Memorial Stadium in Charlotte is supposed to host our lacrosse team and I'm afraid to go near it, it had a major collapse in 2009 and they recently closed it again after they found cracking in a support column. I'd say that needs to be replaced. It was built in 1936 and expanded in 1974.


----------



## HUSKER

Easy question: San Diego Chargers, Minnesota Vikings and the St Louis Rams.- Those 3 teams are ready to move if they dont have new stadium agreements right away.


----------



## will101

HUSKER said:


> Easy question: San Diego Chargers, Minnesota Vikings and the St Louis Rams.- Those 3 teams are ready to move if they dont have new stadium agreements right away.


Horsepucky. There is a big difference between _wants_ and *needs* a new stadium. All three of those teams have functional stadia. They all just have a case of grass-is-greener syndrome.


----------



## will101

bigbossman said:


> what's with the general shitness of stadiums in the bay area??





BoulderGrad said:


> A lack of and refusal to use tax dollars to build new arenas?


It's more complicated than that. Yes, the most educated and liberal metro area in the US mostly refuses to spend tax money on stadiums. But the Niners were about to build a new place at Candlestick Point, before Tagliabue forced Eddie D. out. The Yorks have no idea how to run a team or build a stadium, and had to wait until their kid was old enough to do the job. The Giants went out and found the money,and got the job done. The A's were ready to build Cisco Field in Fremont, until Fremont's small town mentality kicked in, and the city council panicked. The Warriors _got_ a rebuilt arena, and are happy about it. The outdoor Coliseum is actually a good place to watch football, despite all of the crowing here. Most of those crowing have never been there for football. And San Jose built a nice medium-sized arena for the Sharks, and has not been shy about spending more on improvements to keep the team happy.

Other than the A's, Niners and Quakes things are pretty good here.


----------



## vanbasten88

will101 said:


> Horsepucky. There is a big difference between _wants_ and *needs* a new stadium. All three of those teams have functional stadia. They all just have a case of grass-is-greener syndrome.


Exactly and as much as I'm a stadium nerd & love seeing new and exciting stadia rise up, the rich blokes who own the NFL teams mentioned above will use the threat of a move to LA to extract a new shiny keeping up with the (Jerry) Jonses stadium so they don't lose face at the next billionaires meeting also known as the Owners summits. If the citizens are smart, or in a gambling mood, they'll call the bluff and once the threat of LA is no longer there...the owners and teams will get on with things. I wonder if MPLS will take the plunge first seeing as they've already lost the Lakers to LA. 

IMHO the team that NEEDS a new stadium pronto is DC United. The lease at RFK is crippling them and at a time when MLS is growing and some really well run and profitable teams are up and running [Seattle, Portland(likely profitable*) Vancouver(likely profitable*) ] it would be a shame for MLS's first dynastic team to get left behind[and have to relocate] because the District spent all their money/stadium goodwill on the Nats. 

*based on current season ST sell outs and them having seemed to learn the lessons from Seattle on how to successfully start up.


----------



## bd popeye

> and the concourses at Candlestick are joke, they would have been deficient when it opened.


For 2010 I agree the concourses are deficient. I disagree about 1960 when Candlestick was first opened.. When the "Stick" opened in 1960 it was strictly a baseball park. It was used in it's baseball configuration for football for one season by the Oakland Raiders but the attendance was paltry. There was need need for the large concourses of today.

The Giants attendance was good for that time period in the first few years the stick was opened. The capacity was about 43,000.

SF Giants home attendance

1960 1,795,356
1961 1,390,679
1962 1,592,594
1963 1,571,306
1964 1,504,364

And those attendance figures are over approximately 72-77 home days because of scheduled double headers. So..over the first five years of the Stick the average home attendance was about 21,000. So I feel those concourses were more than adequate.


----------



## bigbossman

Anyone know where I can find NFL attendances prior to 1999?


----------



## bd popeye

> Anyone know where I can find NFL attendances prior to 1999?


Humm?? 15 minutes later!

Found it. here ya go!..it only give the total and average per game attendance. Not attendance for individual clubs.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/history/pdfs/History/Paid_Attendance.pdf

And if you need some NFL history..

http://www.nfl.com/history

Enjoy!


----------



## bigbossman

Yeah it's the individual attendances I'm looking for. The NFL seems to be one of the hardest to find. I know that prior to the millenium NFL crowds weren't what they are now (regular blackouts etc), but it seems shocking that the info isn't available especially when I can find stats from the Greek league in the 1980s... 

Cheers for the link although I've been there before...


----------



## bigbossman

Only one I found was the Vikings

http://www.vikings.com/team/history/attendance-info.html


----------



## bd popeye

> Cheers for the link although I've been there before...


That's fine bossman.. I understand your frustration. You know I can find MLB attendance back to the 1920's.. but historic NFL attendance besides the link I showed you? You gotta do a lot of diggin'. If I find it I'll post it in this thread.


----------



## SIC

vanbasten88 said:


> Exactly and as much as I'm a stadium nerd & love seeing new and exciting stadia rise up, the rich blokes who own the NFL teams mentioned above will use the threat of a move to LA to extract a new shiny keeping up with the (Jerry) Jonses stadium so they don't lose face at the next billionaires meeting also known as the Owners summits. If the citizens are smart, or in a gambling mood, they'll call the bluff and once the threat of LA is no longer there...the owners and teams will get on with things. I wonder if MPLS will take the plunge first seeing as they've already lost the Lakers to LA.
> 
> IMHO the team that NEEDS a new stadium pronto is DC United. The lease at RFK is crippling them and at a time when MLS is growing and some really well run and profitable teams are up and running [Seattle, Portland(likely profitable*) Vancouver(likely profitable*) ] it would be a shame for MLS's first dynastic team to get left behind[and have to relocate] because the District spent all their money/stadium goodwill on the Nats.
> 
> *based on current season ST sell outs and them having seemed to learn the lessons from Seattle on how to successfully start up.


Not to forget Philly, Toronto, and LA Galaxy. They all pretty much sell out, LA Galaxy dont but they charge so much that they make more with 18k in the stadium than philly does.

But yes, DC needs it more than New England or San Jose. Their owner doesn't have as many deep pockets and their rent is much higher and the facility much worse. Theres a real danger of them having to move to another city to keep on paying the bills. Which would be a giant black eye for MLS.

Candlestick is terrible, but the 49ers are in no danger of being that broke.


----------



## isaidso

Toronto won't get a new stadium for soccer, but BMO Field will likely undergo an expansion. 5,000-10,000 extra seats?


----------



## will101

bigbossman said:


> Anyone know where I can find NFL attendances prior to 1999?


Several teams, including the Niners, have their media guides online. For the Niners, this means attendance for every game, home and road, from the beginning in 1946.

But if you want the whole kit and kaboodle, then you need to find the first edition of a book called 'Total Football'. It's really big, and probably only available in the reference sections of the library. Which means bring coins for the copier. But there is a section in the book which lists the result of every NFL game ever played, and the attendance if available. That means every modern game (as far as it goes, the book was published around 2000) but not very many games in the 1920s. But it's the best that you will find.

I actually have much of the data on a pretty big spreadsheet, if you can read Mac Excel.


----------



## will101

SIC said:


> Candlestick is terrible, but the 49ers are in no danger of being that broke.


Candlestick really isn't that bad. Every seat is a chair style, the sightlines aren't that bad (and most are pretty good), it has a large upper deck fairly close to the field, and the weather is much better in the fall than in the spring and early summer. The point has been raised that even though the place is crumbling, it's not bad enough for the fans to get up in arms. Which has worked against the new stadium drive. Somewhat.

I would consider Lambeau (narrow bench seats without backs, low sightlines) to be worse from an actual watching-the-game standpoint.


----------



## Dexter Morgan

*UNIONDALE - New Nassau Coliseum (17,000+)*

http://www.wpix.com/wpix-new-nassau-coliseum-proposal,0,5277653.story


----------



## Jericho-79

Can't they just ditch Uniondale and stick with the Barclays Center?


----------



## KingmanIII

^^ Barclays is built around a basketball court, so that's a no-go.


----------



## Dexter Morgan

Jericho-79 said:


> Can't they just ditch Uniondale and stick with the Barclays Center?


then it wouldn't be in Long Island. This arena is for people for live on Long Island, all 5 million of them. Not only for the Islanders hockey team but for concerts and other events.


----------



## flashman

Haven't been to the Icelander's barn for over 15 years. It was awful back then. Wasn't much to recommend the area around the arena. 

What kind of economic shape is Oniondale in these days? Is it viable as a future urban center-arena site or is it best just abandoned?


----------



## matthemod

*Baseball Question*

Apologies beforehand if this has been answered somewhere else before on this thread or elsewhere (using SSC search wasn't all that successful) but I was floating around on here looking at all the Baseball stadiums, and I just wondered whether anyone more knowledgeable than me knew how come most new Baseball stadia have dark green seats? 

The only reasons I can think off is that the white ball contrasts easily with the green to make it more visible, or tradition, or simple cost!


----------



## slipperydog

Absolutely no reason. Just a random aesthetics fad recently.


----------



## en1044

matthemod said:


> Apologies beforehand if this has been answered somewhere else before on this thread or elsewhere (using SSC search wasn't all that successful) but I was floating around on here looking at all the Baseball stadiums, and I just wondered whether anyone more knowledgeable than me knew how come most new Baseball stadia have dark green seats?
> 
> The only reasons I can think off is that the white ball contrasts easily with the green to make it more visible, or tradition, or simple cost!


It's supposed to fit into the "retro" trend. Many older ballparks had green seats.


----------



## BevoLJ

Lord David said:


> What I meant was from city centres. Obviously, for a North American style setup the students are housed within university complexes. But people from the city do need to go from time to time to the university, after all, how do all those staff get there without any major transportation?


The University of Texas is one of the largest and has by far the largest athletic program in the US and it is in the heart of Austin with all kinds of transportation and access. For those universities in the smaller cities, well they are smaller cities. It is even easier in smaller towns to build easy access to such facilities than in a big city like Austin.

http://maps.google.com/maps/myplace....033096,0.066047&mpa=0&ctz=300&mpf=0&t=k&z=15


----------



## mattec

Scba said:


> Morgantown and WVU has its own sort of monorail-like transit system.


it was put in a an engineering project between the University and Boeing. It's primary use is to connect the three main campuses of WVU in Morgantown, not move large volumes of people across the town. All of the people I know at WVU (which is a lot because I'm from WV) do not rely on the PRT because it breaksdown a lot. They might use it for short trips to class, but they pretty much just drive to where they need to go and they certainly don't use it on game days, unless they absolutely have to. 

Here's a pic of one of the cars


----------



## samdman

Pittsburgh is pretty great for people that live in the center of the city because the stadiums are no more than a 15 minute walk from anywhere downtown.


----------



## BevoLJ

^^

Ya, Pittsburgh was actually the first town that came to my mind when I saw this thread.


----------



## will101

samdman said:


> Pittsburgh is pretty great for people that live in the center of the city because the stadiums are no more than a 15 minute walk from anywhere downtown.


What about the other 98% of the metro area?


----------



## ryebreadraz

Los Angeles is a little strange. Staples Center is a block away from a rail line and a second rail like will serve that station beginning early next year. The Coliseum will be served by that same rail line as well and the Rose Bowl has shuttles running from Old Town and a rail line from Old Town. Even Dodger Stadium has a shuttle from Union Station. 

Every major venue in the city will be accessible via public transit by early next year, but the problem is that the public transit in LA is still growing. Nobody west of Culver City has rail access and many people who have access to transit don't take it. So yeah, a lot of people in LA have or will have easy access to every stadium, but many of those don't take it and more don't have access.


----------



## Richo83

LCIII said:


> Ever been to a soccer game in Phili? The stadium is anything but well served.


Agreed, but I was more ranking on the top four sports in the US.



LCIII said:


> I'd offer Seattle up as a good option in this case. CenturyLink and SafeCo are our stadiums that house the Mariners, Seahawks and Sounders. All have incredible access to the King Street Station which is directly connected to the parking lot at CenturyLink. They share parking assets and their location on the south end of the city makes it easier for those driving in from out of the city to skip the downtown traffic.


You can't criticise me for throwing up Philadelphia for having a poorly located soccer stadium when Seattle has a run down out of date Key Arena which is largely unsuitable for hosing both nba and nhl matches. I think that's worse personally.


----------



## bennyboo

well in key arenas defence it is pretty old and i think its positioning is good. but thats just a matter of opinion.


----------



## zshenzhuyu

Products purchased from Coach Stores, factory stores and from their menu are guaranteed to be a real business. In fact, some departmental stores, special stores and catalogs serve as a Coach Handbag outlet discount coach handbags outlet along with a limited number of duty free stores and the internet websites.In many of the main factory warehouses back stocked merchandise might show up that never made it out of the factory.


----------



## canadiancreed

Id' like to add Toronto to the mix for well planned spots for sports venues. The combo of the skydome and the ACC being as downtown as you can get makes it stupid easy to get too, whether you drive, walk, or take transit. Add to that they service the Blue Jays, Argos, Raptors and the Maple Leafs and you've got almost every sport covered of the big four.

One to add to the worst? Ottawa and the Corel Centre. They had a perfect spot out right downtown in Lebreton Flats where transit could have gotten too easily, and it'd be easyish to drive too with a bit of rejigging of the roads (really anyplace in Ottawa is easy to get too driving unless your'e going across the river). Instead they slap it as far west as you can go so unless you live in the west end, it's a bloody pita to get too. Only one way in, one way out. If the team lasts long enough, maybe in twenty years, they'll do it right and move it downtown, but it's Ottawa, so I doubt it.


----------



## Lordpenguinton

I would say regarding football, American style, an essential component to the stadium experience is the tailgate. So stadiums with excellent freeway connections are preferred. That Jet's stadium on Manhattan's westside was doomed from the start because you can't tailgate. College football stadiums are another excellent example of the US doing whatever the hell suits them (kind of like our continuing devotion to the Imperial system of measurement), we use these stadiums 6 or 7 times a year, and these team's fans plan accordingly. I've been to many a college game and yes it's a bitch to park, but hey that's life, no one is going to build a subway or lightrail in Gainesville Florida for 90,000 drunk people to use 7 days a year. Baseball on the other hand is totally different. I think the teams and cities (it's not just the cities doing though) that integrate the best (winning also helps) have the best set up. Think New York, Yankees as of now, though the Mets are conveniently located via subway as well, Boston, San Francisco, Philly, DC, Baltimore and the Chicago teams, plus several others. It's not just infrastructure but that there are 81 home games in baseball, only 41 in basketball and only 8 in the NFL. Home games and other stadium usage definitely plays a role in stadium infrastructure. At risk of rambling on too long you also have a number of arenas that since they are used for both NBA and NHL also get a lot of game nights, not to mention concerts and other events. I think almost every major US city now has their major arena located in or near downtown. I know San Francisco doesn't have one and Sacramento's is located in the middle of nowhere in relation to it's downtown, Chicago's is in the west of downtown, but pretty much every US city has a downtown arena, and if you don't you should get one. See Oklahoma City Thundersonics as a reason to bring yourself into the 90's. I don't know why cities don't just build arenas and then rent them out to NBA/NHL teams. Screw concession agreements and tax breaks, just build it, use it as an extension of your convention center, or as an employment center or gun range. Store salt in it for the winter (Atlanta). Hell it's a big building, usually with no architectural significance, that's very elastic. Great for state fairs and that Poison/Duran Duran bill.


----------



## LCIII

Richo83 said:


> You can't criticise me for throwing up Philadelphia for having a poorly *located* soccer stadium when Seattle has a run down *out of date* Key Arena which is largely unsuitable for hosing both nba and nhl matches. I think that's worse personally.


That would be a relevant arguement if we had an NBA or NHL team...but we dont. And since when was this about the quality of the arenas? I'm pretty sure we were discussing location...and if we are, then Key Arena, were it still in use for either NBA or NHL, would be quite alright given it's prime location on the northern side of downtown Seattle just below the towering Space Needle. I'd prefer it were down in the stadium district but it's worked well enough up where it is for many many years.


----------



## Topher51

nyrmetros said:


> Winning changes everything with fair weather Islander fans. The building is not an excuse though it does have some major transportation issues which are not even being addressed..........


Winning (or at least being competitive) changes everything with 99% percent of fanbases.


----------



## eMKay

Lordpenguinton said:


> I would say regarding football, American style, an essential component to the stadium experience is the tailgate. So stadiums with excellent freeway connections are preferred. That Jet's stadium on Manhattan's westside was doomed from the start because you can't tailgate. College football stadiums are another excellent example of the US doing whatever the hell suits them (kind of like our continuing devotion to the Imperial system of measurement), we use these stadiums 6 or 7 times a year, and these team's fans plan accordingly. I've been to many a college game and yes it's a bitch to park, but hey that's life, no one is going to build a subway or lightrail in Gainesville Florida for 90,000 drunk people to use 7 days a year. Baseball on the other hand is totally different. I think the teams and cities (it's not just the cities doing though) that integrate the best (winning also helps) have the best set up. Think New York, Yankees as of now, though the Mets are conveniently located via subway as well, Boston, San Francisco, Philly, DC, Baltimore and the Chicago teams, plus several others. It's not just infrastructure but that there are 81 home games in baseball, only 41 in basketball and only 8 in the NFL. Home games and other stadium usage definitely plays a role in stadium infrastructure. At risk of rambling on too long you also have a number of arenas that since they are used for both NBA and NHL also get a lot of game nights, not to mention concerts and other events. I think almost every major US city now has their major arena located in or near downtown. I know San Francisco doesn't have one and Sacramento's is located in the middle of nowhere in relation to it's downtown, Chicago's is in the west of downtown, but pretty much every US city has a downtown arena, and if you don't you should get one. See Oklahoma City Thundersonics as a reason to bring yourself into the 90's. I don't know why cities don't just build arenas and then rent them out to NBA/NHL teams. Screw concession agreements and tax breaks, just build it, use it as an extension of your convention center, or as an employment center or gun range. Store salt in it for the winter (Atlanta). Hell it's a big building, usually with no architectural significance, that's very elastic. Great for state fairs and that Poison/Duran Duran bill.


Yes, totally agree. Here in Buffalo our arena and ballpark are downtown, while the stadium is out in the suburbs surrounded by parking lots, and we tailgate with the best of them. It's the perfect setup.


----------



## mhays

Kansas City looks like an awful setup. How bizarre that on SSC it would be argued that transit isn't important...

I agree that Seattle's setup is very good for NFL, MLB, and MLS. Two stadiums on very little land, including an exhibition hall. Each stadium has a parking garage, which combined might serve 1/3 of football attendees (the largest crowds). The rest of the parking is efficiently served by nearby office buildings, streets, etc. Transit, which is used pretty heavily for games, includes commuter rail, light rail, most Downtown bus routes, and Washington State Ferries. Freeways nearby include I-90 and I-5. The stadiums themselves are excellent, including a movable roof for baseball that takes away the uncertainty. The stadium area lacks hotels, but there is one (250 rooms) next door, a 30-second walk from the gate at Safeco and a minute or two from Qwest. 

Efficient use of land is crucial. I can't believe what a freaking waste some stadiums are. We use about 25-30 acres for the two stadiums, exhibition hall, and two parking garages combined. Some places use 10x that. 

It's important to have public land next door. How else would you get the gauntlets of hot dog sellers etc.? 

We do have an unfortunate 10-acre surface parking lot between the football stadium and Pioneer Square, i.e. the edge of Downtown proper. However, half of that lot has a mixed-use complex planned, which has announced an August start and is currently showing signs of activity.... The other half will be saved for tailgating (5 acres = 750 cars or so), temporary storage of seating sections, public events, etc.


----------



## Boriska

Even if I never seen a US Stadium, via photos my favorite stadium is for me the Cowboys Stadium and the Soldier Field.
The worst is the San Francisco 49ers actual stadium. But I heard that they will construct a new stadium


----------



## dave8721

The Bank Atlantic Center in Sunrise, FL (where the Florida Panthers NHL team plays) is walking distance to alligators and other wildlife since it was built across the street (literally) from the Everglades in the far western suburbs.

Aerial of the stadium:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=sunri...sspn=0.395901,0.557556&safe=moderate&t=h&z=15


----------



## Archbishop

Everything is pretty centrally located in downtown Indy. Victory Field is one of the better places to park for Lucas Oil Stadium, and Conseco isn't too far.


----------



## weava

mhays said:


> Kansas City looks like an awful setup. How bizarre that on SSC it would be argued that transit isn't important...


We have three indoor areans downtown with over 10k seats, so the arena situation is great, the football stadium has easy highway access and lots of tailgating. The only prob with KC is the soccer stadium and Nascar track are way out in a sparsly populated suburban part of Kansas and many would like the baseball stadium downtown but its to late to move any of them now as all the stadiums are brand new or newly renovated sans kemper. 
There was also a article in the KC paper this week discussing the future of kemper arena now that downtown has 3 arenas.
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/07/18/3021919/kemper-arenas-future-is-up-in.html


----------



## Topher51

will101 said:


> What about the other 98% of the metro area?


As someone who has been to numerous Steelers games over the last 10 years, traffic into and out of the North Shore flows fairly well, as long as your aren't trying to show up a hour before kickoff. If you are arriving later, you can also park downtown and walk across the bridges or park at Station Square and take the ferry. On top of that, the new T line will be serving the stadiums starting in 2012. 

You want to see a cluster F? Try going to a game at FedEX Field for a Redskins game. It's a 45 minute metro ride from Arlington, VA, then a 25 minute walk from the station. Or you can take the beltway or 295, but that is at least an 1.5 hour commitment to AND from. I left four hours early for a game once and got there at halftime. 

Give me Pittsburgh any day.


----------



## broncoempire

koolio said:


> They can't possibly accommodate three teams in one arena at the same time.


The Staples Center in Los Angeles accommodates the Lakers, Clippers and the Kings with relatively no trouble with plenty of room for concerts, the circus, Grammy Awards, and other events during their seasons. MSG is one of the busiest arenas in the world and it would probably be of minimal difficulty to add the Islanders. Not that the Dolans would ever go for this, however.



desertpunk said:


> Clearly that's a problem. Maybe a $200 million problem to fix by tearing out the existing arena's excess seating around the floor and expanding elsewhere. But it's not the same problem as having no arena and begging voters for $450 million. However I wouldn't expect any such refinements made to Barclays.


It's not just a case of expanding the floor area so much as the rink leads to compromised sightlines from a range of seats whether they be at the end of the rink or in the upper level where the views are centered differently. One only has to see a picture of the Energy Solutions Arena during the 2002 Winter Olympics or a picture of US Airways Center in Phoenix when the Coyotes played there to see this phenomenon in action. Why do you think the majority of venues do not sell seats behind the stage for concerts? It's a similar type scenario.

Shoehorning the Islanders into an already under construction Barclays Center isn't the same as the Leafs purchasing and then modifying an already under construction Air Canada Centre as that venue was still largely centered around a rink size playing surface. All that required was additional suites, locker room areas, restaurants, etc. A large amount of Barclays' superstructure of steel is already in place thereby locking in the overall footprint of the building, and thus the playing surface. If the best option is playing in a building that only utilizes 14,000 seats and a percentage of premium suites, boxes, club seats because of the overlapping configuration of the rink, is it really that much better than their current scenario?


----------



## Dexter Morgan

kev_427 said:


> Why couldn't they just move to MSG? The Giants and Jets share a stadium, why can't the Rangers and Islanders?


Because the Rangers and Knicks already share MSG. Plus the Rangers and Isles play in the same division, they are actually rivals, unlike the Giants and Jets.


----------



## RMB2007

Any idea? Seems rather small for an American football stadium. Hmmm...


----------



## Archbishop

Half of the seats are boxes. That's a bizarre stadium.


----------



## Lumbergo

the score board is too small and waaaay to many boxes.


----------



## carnifex2005

Interesting article from Grantland about why New York's new stadiums/arenas are lacking in design.


----------



## Benn

RMB2007 said:


> Any idea? Seems rather small for an American football stadium. Hmmm...



Looks like a small South American stadium, like some the recent Colombian and Peruvian stadiums with all the boxes stacked up along the sides and a single shallow bowl.


----------



## freki65

great


----------



## en1044

Where did you find that picture?


----------



## eMKay

That's a college field based on the hash marks, so some sort of mid level college program with way too much money


----------



## NokiaFanz

Interesting


----------



## DimitriB

more a football/soccer stadium than a NFL stadium


----------



## kaz03

*Ideas for new Chicago Cubs stadium*

This thread is about ideas for a new cubs stadium but you don't need to be a cubs fan or even know who the cubs are just share your ideas for a new baseball stadium, feel free to share pictures too. Try to give a detailed response to the question don't just write one sentence.


----------



## weava

They just need to remodel the current stadium.


----------



## Marckymarc

Tear down Wrigley and build this


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

Wrigley Field is great. There is no reason for a remodel. I was just there a couple months ago. Having grown up in the bay area and going to Giants games at the most beautiful ballpark in baseball I had low expectations. While Wrigley is missing many modern amenities, it is in great shape for it's age and the atmosphere is fantastic.


----------



## Darloeye

^^^^ What stadium is that picture from ?


----------



## kaz03

]in my opinion wrigley should just be remodeled, im glad that the planned remodel wont change the park much, just make it more sound and make the concourse better.


----------



## kaz03

im sorry my last post got messed up but what i said was that i think wrigley should stay the same but i also post a picture of the stadium i designed that would also be cool for the cubs if it was on the lakefront. if you click the link it will take you to the stadium.


----------



## mattec

Darloeye said:


> ^^^^ What stadium is that picture from ?


looks like one of the old cookie cutter/ multi purpose stadiums in either Cincinnati or Pittsburgh, just judging by the hills...


----------



## metros11

Fabio1976 said:


> http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1110...ner-don-garber-if-we-can-build-the-stadium-we
> 
> The most important sport of the world in the most important city of the world !!!
> 
> I hope and think that the Cosmos ( or another NYC soccer team ) will play in MLS at Citi Field by 2013 and in a new soccer stadium in Queens by 2015.
> 
> Borough Boys NYC


The headline reads:

_MLS Commissioner Don Garber: *If* we can build the stadium, we will have the 20th team in New York City_

Good luck with that Napoli.


----------



## Boriska

Maybe the MLS teams will play Champions League in the future.


----------



## Darloeye

Can't see New York getting a team anytime soon. Its not the most important sports city in the world, Think thats London well next year anyway ! Think they are wanting to built a new stadium next door to Citi Field. Can't see them letting Major League Soccer teams play in the Champions League.


----------



## Fabio1976

metros11 said:


> The headline reads:
> 
> _MLS Commissioner Don Garber: *If* we can build the stadium, we will have the 20th team in New York City_
> 
> Good luck with that Napoli.


How you know who I am a Napoli fan ?


----------



## eMKay

Darloeye said:


> Its not the most important sports city in the world


No, it's not. But the headline doesn't state that either, it's the most important city "of" the world. lol, "of" the world? It's the most important city "IN" the world...or "ON" the world if you want to be technical.


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^Soooo.... why this not moved to Soccer Stadiums of USA thread?


----------



## metros11

Fabio1976 said:


> How you know who I am a Napoli fan ?


Because you spew the same nonsense on the BigSoccer forum. Did you seriously people wouldn't know who you are if you used a different screen name? Every post you make is the same, it includes something about a stadium in NYC with some unrealistic date. If I had a nickel for every one of your posts like this I'd probably be able to build my own stadium in NYC with that money.


----------



## Fabio1976

metros11 said:


> Because you spew the same nonsense on the BigSoccer forum. Did you seriously people wouldn't know who you are if you used a different screen name? Every post you make is the same, it includes something about a stadium in NYC with some unrealistic date. If I had a nickel for every one of your posts like this I'd probably be able to build my own stadium in NYC with that money.


I like your last idea. Perhaps it can be the ideal solution...........


----------



## nyrmetros

I would like to see a MLS stadium built near Shea and the USTA near Flushing Meadows Park. It is the only logical place in the whole city, IMO. But just calling the team the Cosmos is not the final solution. The ownership must understand MLS inside and out. The ownership must understand that civic pride in portland and Seattle is unfortunately not enough in NYC. I wish it were.


----------



## Hudson11

with two baseball teams and two American Football teams (ok, the football stadium is in New Jersey) i don't see a new stadium for a less popular sport any time soon.


----------



## Marckymarc

nyrmetros said:


> The ownership must understand that civic pride in portland and Seattle is unfortunately not enough in NYC. I wish it were.


I'd gladly trade some of Portland's enthusiasm soccer for some enthusiasm for baseball and/or hockey--two sports that I love a lot more than soccer, but that Portlanders don't give two rips about.


----------



## JYDA

Boriska said:


> Maybe the MLS teams will play Champions League in the future.


There was that bizarre rumour in the Guardian a week ago that suggested UEFA are considering it. I personally don't believe it.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...to-receive-invite-to-play-in-champions-league


----------



## GunnerJacket

Boriska said:


> Maybe the MLS teams will play Champions League in the future.


I'll take "_Things That Will Never Happen_" for $400, Alex.


In all seriousness, there is a realistic possibility of CONCACAF and CONMEBOL having a formally merged Champions League once MLS becomes more established. Might be harsh for clubs from the smaller nations, but as a tourney that would produce more big name clashes to draw international viewership. More games like Club America vs Santos, Boca vs. Chivas, etc. Especially as casual American footie fans become familiar with Latin American soccer brands.


----------



## metros11

GunnerJacket said:


> I'll take "_Things That Will Never Happen_" for $400, Alex.
> 
> 
> In all seriousness, there is a realistic possibility of CONCACAF and CONMEBOL having a formally merged Champions League once MLS becomes more established. Might be harsh for clubs from the smaller nations, but as a tourney that would produce more big name clashes to draw international viewership. More games like Club America vs Santos, Boca vs. Chivas, etc. Especially as casual American footie fans become familiar with Latin American soccer brands.


MLS clubs have already tried their luck in CONMEBOL competition, I believe DC participated in Copa Sudamericana. The problem is travel, it's just way too far.


----------



## JYDA

metros11 said:


> MLS clubs have already tried their luck in CONMEBOL competition, I believe DC participated in Copa Sudamericana. The problem is travel, it's just way too far.


Or the fact that CONCACAF banned its teams from participating in Copa Sudamericana when they created the CONCACAF Champions League. Although that may change now that Chuck Blazer is gone. The CONMEBOL president said last year "the door is open" to MLS participation in Libertadores but there's a lot of politics and a ton of bad blood between CONCACAF and CONMEBOL.


----------



## mopper513

*BUFFALO - Univesity at Buffalo Stadium (29,013)*

*Buffalo Bulls*
2008 Mid-America Conference Champs


----------



## Scba

Place is waaaaaay too big for that football team.


----------



## desertpunk

They can fill it up:










Like anything, it depends on the matchup and the kind of season they're having. Strong college football teams are fairly new to people in Buffalo.


----------



## Elwin135

The Superdome new LED Lights


----------



## krudmonk

lipstick on a pigdome


----------



## KingmanIII

another UCF clone :yawn:

please just kill this program and bring back UAH hockey


----------



## rantanamo

KingmanIII said:


> another UCF clone :yawn:
> 
> please just kill this program and bring back UAH hockey


most of the college behemoths started off in some small similar form to these "UCF clones"


----------



## JJG

slipperydog said:


> Here is a pic of a UAB game at Legion Field. The problem is that everyone in Birmingham is either an Alabama or Auburn fan. *There is very little interest in UAB football*.


3-9 with a new coach?

I doubt "intrest" is the real issue...


----------



## slipperydog

JJG said:


> 3-9 with a new coach?
> 
> I doubt "intrest" is the real issue...


Trust me, there has never been interest in UAB football, no matter how well they've done. Admittedly they've always been pretty mediocre. Maybe a new facility will get them better recruits.


----------



## mattec

slipperydog said:


> Trust me, there has never been interest in UAB football, no matter how well they've done. Admittedly they've always been pretty mediocre. Maybe a new facility will get them better recruits.


If they could break out of UAT's grip they might make something of themselves, but as of right now, the BoT is content to suppress UAB football.


----------



## mattec

michał_;86302417 said:


> And gotta keep in mind that dedicated threads are reserved for stadia 30,000+


the stadium will probably be 30,000


----------



## canarywondergod

Elwin135 said:


> The Superdome new LED Lights


Superb, the renovation is looking great!


----------



## Benn

The exterior is looking better than it ever has, that new "champagne" finish or whatever they call it does look good. The seating bowl is looking a little disjointed at the moment but if they replaced the confetti seats with black and yellow one it would look sharp on the inside too.


----------



## KLynch

will101 said:


> Too close to Washington. The arrival of the Nationals destroyed the attendance of the Orioles, so a hockey team in Baltimore could easily do the same thing to the Capitals.


That's had nothing to do with the Nationals. 14 straight losing seasons, name me one fan base other than the cubs that would still relentlessly support their team in a streak like that. There are often many series in the first half of the year when they O's are still in it that have huge attendance. 

Not sure how Hockey would do in Baltimore, but the town is definitely itching for another franchise. Looks like that will probably MLS, and that will be exciting.


----------



## KingmanIII

BoulderGrad said:


> Meh, shelved. We'll either soon be talking about a new Islanders stadium, or about them moving.


----------



## jay stew

KingmanIII said:


>


KC would probably fare better with a NBA franchise.


----------



## broncoempire

Not to mention this alleged support for a NHL franchise in Kansas City is tepid at best and there isn't a suitable ownership group. 

Given the issues for a plethora of teams in both Kansas City and St. Louis, I'm not sure modern sports economics are conducive to the state of Missouri accommodating all the teams it already has, much less additional ones.


----------



## Jericho-79

^^Yes, and there's a good chance St. Louis could lose the Rams.

I would gather that the only valuable teams in the state of Missouri are the Chiefs and the Royals.


----------



## KingmanIII

jay stew said:


> KC would probably fare better with a NBA franchise.


definitely

but spending $276 million and not getting a major-league franchise has made the natives restless


----------



## KingmanIII

Jericho-79 said:


> ^^Yes, and there's a good chance St. Louis could lose the Rams.
> 
> I would gather that the only valuable teams in the state of Missouri are the Chiefs and the Royals.


umm...aren't you forgetting someone?


----------



## blacktrojan3921

KingmanIII said:


>


Wasn't it already established that Kansas City is not a viable option for an NHL franchise?

And in regards to the Islanders arena, I think in the end a new arena will be approved and built on Long Island -though not likely in Nassau County-; even without taxpayer approval. After all who -besides politicians- takes taxpayers seriously?


----------



## eMKay

KingmanIII said:


> umm...aren't you forgetting someone?


:lol:

He must have had a brain fart, I mean to forget a team that has won what, 16 championships? :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Jericho-79

KingmanIII said:


> umm...aren't you forgetting someone?





eMKay said:


> He must have had a brain fart, I mean to forget a team that has won what, 16 championships? :lol::lol::lol:


I apologize. I had a Rick Perry moment.:doh:

Are you guys referring to the Cardinals? I mean- it can't be the Blues.:angel:


----------



## mattec

*Is this over the top for 'amateur' athletics?*


----------



## Dallas star

Just a little.


----------



## Dimethyltryptamine

I don't think so. It's these sorts of facilities that will produce some of the best football players in the country, and no doubt, will draw people to the University of Tennessee.


----------



## mattec

After some digging, it's a $40mil facility and Peyton Manning put up $30mil


----------



## joezierer

If you think College Football is amateur Do I Have News For You.


----------



## JYDA

They forgot something! Where's the academic study room? lol


----------



## WesTexas

"THUNDER DOME OF POWER!!!!" This might be a little over the top.


----------



## Marbur66

joezierer said:


> If you think College Football is amateur Do I Have News For You.


Well, it's _officially_ amateur. But that's about it.


----------



## JYDA

Clearly it's more of a recruiting tool than anything else. The same thing happened in college basketball. Florida built an over the top practice facility with all the bells and whistles that wowed recruits and now everyone's building them.


----------



## mattec

joezierer said:


> If you think College Football is amateur Do I Have News For You.


notice the ' '


----------



## mattec

JYDA said:


> Clearly it's more of a recruiting tool than anything else. The same thing happened in college basketball. Florida built an over the top practice facility with all the bells and whistles that wowed recruits and now everyone's building them.


with the recruiting wars going on as they are, eventually college athletes could be taking a step down -in terms of facilities- when they go to the pros....


----------



## KingmanIII

Is this?


----------



## rantanamo

There has been an arms race of college football and basketball facilities for while. While that video looks nice, I don't see anything special or unique that most larger FBS schools don't have already have. Especially the locker room, weight room and training facilities. The indoor field looks nice, but only because its longer than their current indoor facility which is damn impressive itself. Then the video lies. Players will not be overlooked by the best coaching staff in the country........................LOL.


----------



## bd popeye

Darloeye said:


> ^^^^ What stadium is that picture from ?


Three Rivers Stadium, Pittsburgh PA 1970-2001. Check the link below for verfication.

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157624218926901/


----------



## ihav3nofri3ndzz

rantanamo said:


> While that video looks nice, I don't see anything special or unique that most larger FBS schools don't have already have. Especially the locker room, weight room and training facilities.


Except the part where Tennessee IS one of the larger FBS schools in terms of football and they basically already have all of that stuff. They are just paying $40mil to add to it all. This is all an addition to an already massive training complex.


----------



## robbery4774

1. If you are a talented youngster, but didn't make your graduation in school, is it still possible to join a college? 

2. Is it possible to join a proffesional team of NFL or NBA without the path of playing at a college?

3. is it true, that the good athletes on the college don't need to learn for their marks and get automatically good marks to focus on the games, because it is very important for the college to succeed in these games?


----------



## GunnerJacket

robbery4774 said:


> 1. If you are a talented youngster, but didn't make your graduation in school, is it still possible to join a college?


Technically no. Universities and colleges are only supposed to admit students who have successfully completed primary and secondary education. If a student failed to graduate High School then he would need a GED (graduate equivalency diploma) in order to be eligible for college.


> 2. Is it possible to join a proffesional team of NFL or NBA without the path of playing at a college?


Yes, but the athlete would need to wait 3 years (NFL) or 1 year (NBA) to participate in either league per the agreement between those leagues and their players' unions.


> 3. is it true, that the good athletes on the college don't need to learn for their marks and get automatically good marks to focus on the games, because it is very important for the college to succeed in these games?


If we assume the student isn't cheating, then there are incidents of where student athletes are so good and it's assumed they'll be a highly paid pro someday that they take only the minimum amount of classes, take only easy classes with marginal workloads, and the also take full advantage of any study assistance provided to scholar athletes. The result is that athlete taking token classes merely to maintain their status as a student of that school.


----------



## Topher51

Tennessee is my alma mater and I have lived and breathed Big Orange since I could crawl, so I can't help but be a homer about this. Yes, it is entirely necessary to have a facility like this if you want to compete in the SEC. You don't draft your players, you have to make them want to play for you. Have the nicest facilities is key in that. This video is purely propaganda to make 18 year old want to come to Tennessee, so I would expect it to be over the top. 

As was stated earlier, this is just a $40 expansion and renovation of the existing facility. I graduated in 2001 and this is the second expansion since then. I used to go to summer camp at Neyland-Thompson and even back in the mid 1990's it was pretty amazing. 

They don't mention an academic center in the video because that is in a seperate building next to the track. That is for all the student atheletes though, not just the football players. They also have their own dorm and cafeteria. 

UT has amazing facilities for all their sports. The athletes live like kings there. 
http://www.utsports.com/facilities/index.html


----------



## rantanamo

ihav3nofri3ndzz said:


> Except the part where Tennessee IS one of the larger FBS schools in terms of football and they basically already have all of that stuff. They are just paying $40mil to add to it all. This is all an addition to an already massive training complex.


point I was making is that its not unusual for larger FBS schools to have such facilities, which is the question that was asked. And yes, its pretty much necessary if you even want to even be competitive in one of the top conferences.


----------



## en1044

joezierer said:


> If you think College Football is amateur Do I Have News For You.


For most of the players it is very much an amateur sport.

Of the 200 or so players that get drafted every year, there are thousands of other people who stop playing after college and go on to a regular life.


----------



## iamawesomezero

how are they going to build it without interrupting the season?

it overlaps Busch Stadium


----------



## WesTexas

KingmanIII said:


> Is this?


Awesome arena, sad name. I cant believe they didnt call it the KenTaco Hut Arena!


----------



## weava

en1044 said:


> For most of the players it is very much an amateur sport.
> 
> Of the 200 or so players that get drafted every year, there are thousands of other people who stop playing after college and go on to a regular life.


for FBS players and D1 basketball players(10,000+ players), they are not amateur, they are getting special treatment like crazy. They are going to be getting $2000 a year in free money, plus free tuition and food, tons of free clothes, get to do lots of free traveling(to bowl games or preseason basketball tournements in places like vegas, mexico, etc), get special treatment during recruiting(aka girls), get special treatment by teachers and get free tutors, etc.


----------



## bd popeye

weava said:


> for FBS players and D1 basketball players(10,000+ players), they are not amateur, they are getting special treatment like crazy. They are going to be getting $2000 a year in free money, plus free tuition and food, tons of free clothes, get to do lots of free traveling(to bowl games or preseason basketball tournements in places like vegas, mexico, etc), get special treatment during recruiting(aka girls), get special treatment by teachers and get free tutors, etc.


.....and division 1A schools make millions of dollars from the ability of these young persons to play a particular sport.


----------



## joezierer

bd popeye said:


> .....and division 1A schools make millions of dollars from the ability of these young persons to play a particular sport.


Only the BCS (or Power 6 if you prefer) teams actually make money on their athletic program.

It may not even be that many.


----------



## weava

bd popeye said:


> .....and division 1A schools make millions of dollars from the ability of these young persons to play a particular sport.


Around 15-20 of the 300+ D1 schools turn a profit, most schools lose millions of dollars every year.

For Every Ohio State/Texas type of school there are 20 North Texas' or Western Michigan U's that lose money. Even most BCS conference school's athletic departments lose money.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5490686


----------



## RaiderATO

weava said:


> Around 15-20 of the 300+ D1 schools turn a profit, most schools lose millions of dollars every year.
> 
> For Every Ohio State/Texas type of school there are 20 North Texas' or Western Michigan U's that lose money. Even most BCS conference school's athletic departments lose money.
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5490686


The program might lose money (or break even due to creative accounting), but the impact on the university as a whole is much greater. Aside from direct gameday donations, there are also more long lasting relationships (and $$ giving) fostered from successful athletic programs.

They might operate at a loss in the athletics dept., but they're not a net loss for the university.


----------



## mgk920

KingmanIII said:


> Is this?


University of Louisville (Louisville, KY) basketball arena.

Mike


----------



## rantanamo

The key phrase being used here is "Athletic program". Many many many D-1 football programs make money. Same with basketball. With Title IX though, many sports that don't make money have to be kept alive because they are women's sports.


----------



## JJG

Hey, one of my pictures for my school's football stadium made it on Bleacher Report!

I mean, yeah it's b/r and it kinda ruins the moment, but I'm glad some of my "work" is out there.... probably because it's the only picture that captures the stadium as it should be seen.

It's #3 on the 30 Worst Stadiums and Arenas in American Sports. And that's just about the ONLY thing I agree with them about.


----------



## rantanamo

JJG said:


> Hey, one of my pictures for my school's football stadium made it on Bleacher Report!
> 
> I mean, yeah it's b/r and it kinda ruins the moment, but I'm glad some of my "work" is out there.... probably because it's the only picture that captures the stadium as it should be seen.
> 
> It's #3 on the 30 Worst Stadiums and Arenas in American Sports. And that's just about the ONLY thing I agree with them about.


Worst list ever


----------



## Darloeye

Nice picture. Had page had some great looking birds.
KFC Yum Center is a joke name of a area tho.


----------



## JJG

rantanamo said:


> Worst list ever


I know. That's why I said, it's the ONLY thing I agree with....


----------



## Welkin

mattec said:


> After some digging, it's a $40mil facility and Peyton Manning put up $30mil


Sorry, but Peyton only donated $1 million (still a generous donation) towards the facility. His $1 million donation brought their total donations up to $30 million on the $39 million facility.


----------



## iamawesomezero

Hard choice! I choose LA


----------



## carnifex2005

Seattle sports-arena talks well under way, documents show

A wealthy San Francisco hedge-fund manager and officials in the Seattle mayor's office have been working behind the scenes for eight months to bring an NBA team back to the city as early as next fall and build a new arena, according to emails and documents that reveal a far more concerted effort than previously known.

A Dec. 13 agenda for a meeting between the parties shows they were talking about details such as a "Review of Basic Deal Structure," "Financing Issues," including "City Debt Capacity," and "Security for Public Financing."

The documents, released Friday to The Seattle Times under a public-disclosure request, also provide the first glimpse of how the largely unknown hedge-fund manager, 44-year-old Seattle native Christopher Hansen, approached the city about his desire to buy an NBA team and build an arena south of Safeco Field.


----------



## Hindustani

candlestick park is just so bad. 

cant wait for the new Santa Clara stadium


----------



## nyrmetros

GunnerJacket said:


> Yeah, it will be interesting to see what eveolves. Metro's right about the travel concerns, which several MLS coaches and players mentioned before at the idea. CONMEBOL wants access to north American money, CONCACAF wants to parlay off the brand names of south American soccer clubs, so it seems only a matter of time till something happens.
> 
> In the meantime, CONCACAF has their work cut out for them in trying to develop pro soccer, and may lead a global revisit to the idea of multi-national leagues. One of Blazer's lackeys was pushing for a Caribbean league and a joint less ague of central America nations. Since the CONCACAF Champions League isn't a huge money maker, the question was would these models yield more profit for the clubs? I think they'll keep exploring this, because CONCACAF lacks the volume of talented nations to add true appeal.


I love the premise of the concacaf champions league, but outside of the USA, Canada, and Mexico, I don't know any of the teams involved.


----------



## nyrmetros

metros11 said:


> MLS clubs have already tried their luck in CONMEBOL competition, I believe DC participated in Copa Sudamericana. The problem is travel, it's just way too far.


Yes I remember dc playing in the copa sudamericana. Only time I have ever pulled for them. Their travel log was insane that year.


----------



## WesTexas

rantanamo said:


> Worst list ever


I second that. What is that guy smoking? What does he consider to be the best???


----------



## JJG

WesTexas said:


> I second that. What is that guy smoking? What does he consider to be the best???


More than likely some modern building that's NOT Cowboys Stadium.


----------



## WesTexas

Cowboys stadium works. I have been to plenty of games in it, and those who knock it have never been to it.


----------



## ryebreadraz

Benn said:


> The Twin Cities are very entertainment-centric, I would guess in MLS team (particularly if located near a Hispanic center in St Paul or Minneapolis proper) would draw pretty well, I think 12,000-15,000 a game average would be realistic long term with it a bit higher for the first couple seasons.


If 12-15k is the number than there is not a chance in hell that Minnesota gets a MLS team. The five most recent expansion teams are all drawing at least 18k per game and selling out pretty much every game. If they can't sell MLS on being able to draw 18k per game then they won't even be in the discussion.



BoulderGrad said:


> Rams do not need a new stadium either, but I can understand them wanting a few "keeping up with the Jones'" improvements.


If the Rams don't get a new stadium or gigantic, massive renovations then they are going to move. It's that simple. The Rams can get out of their lease if the stadium isn't in the top quarter of the league and it won't even be close without major changes.


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## rantanamo

Per the Rams' own agreement, they need a new stadium or a serious renovation.


----------



## eMKay

GunnerJacket said:


> The Falcons shouldn't be on the list. They don't need a new venue, they just want more gameday money, and they could get that through a renovation of the dome and a redo of their deal with the City and GWCC. But as a stadium and in terms of views and general amenities the Georgia Dome is still very good.
> 
> By all accounts the Bills should be #7 or 8 as well, with a similar story to the Falcons only their market means there's less demand for the high $ suites and premium seating.
> 
> I'll say this, though: If those 8 did get new digs in the next 10-15 years then it's safe to say the NFL would have near perfect venues for all their members, which would be a feat for any league.


Bills are working on a major upgrade right now. It might be just structural, or it might be a major deal, we don't know here yet.


----------



## will101

*Super Bowl L: site-by-site look at 2016 possibilities*

This is a speculative look at who is in the running for hosting Super Bowl 50 (*L*), to be played in 2016:


> The NFL traditionally awards Super Bowl sites at its May meeting. If the league were to hold true to form for selection of the Super Bowl L host, that would mean bids for 2016 would have to come in by March or April.
> 
> Here's a look at top options and their chances of securing the 50th Super Bowl.
> 
> Santa Clara, Calif.
> 
> Pros: The 49ers' new stadium will open in 2014, the first new football stadium in California since the 1960s. A Super Bowl has traditionally gone to new stadiums, especially in warm weather spots. This pick would also return the game to the Golden State for the first time since the 2003 game in San Diego.
> 
> Cons: Not many. The NFL may want to award the game to one of its more-traditional host cities, and a Super Bowl here would also be quite spread out, stretching from San Jose to San Francisco.
> 
> Odds: Good
> 
> New Orleans
> 
> Pros: Will be tied with Miami at 10 after next year for having hosted the most Super Bowls. The NFL may want to recognize one of its best Super Bowl cities with the historic game.
> 
> Cons: The game will have just been in New Orleans three years earlier (2013). The league prefers more spacing.
> 
> Odds: Good ...


Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/sto...site-look-at-2016-possibilities#ixzz1mTk93vDE


----------



## ryebreadraz

I think they're going to hold off so they can see what happens with Farmers Field. If it gets the green light then I think they'll want to put the 50th Super Bowl back in LA.


----------



## El Mariachi

I wish Green Bay had more hotel rooms. A 50th Super Bowl at Lambeau would be pretty cool. First SB champion and the Lombardi Trophy connection. Obviously a pipedream given the size of Green Bay (lack of amenities), it's lack of hotel rooms, small airport, & the cold weather. Current planned expansion will make the stadium the 4th largest in the NFL.


----------



## RMB2007

And the chances of the stadium in Miami being renovated are?


----------



## ryebreadraz

RMB2007 said:


> And the chances of the stadium in Miami being renovated are?


Looks low at the moment. They tried to tie funding for it to something else (I think the convention center?), but it got dropped and there doesn't appear to be anything imminent.


----------



## RMB2007

ryebreadraz said:


> Looks low at the moment. They tried to tie funding for it to something else (I think the convention center?), but it got dropped and there doesn't appear to be anything imminent.


What's this? A billionaire owner not willing to stump up the money to pay for the renovation. Ah, only in America.


----------



## GunnerJacket

RMB2007 said:


> What's this? A billionaire owner not willing to stump up the money to pay for the renovation. Ah, only in America.


I thought he floated almost all the funding for the latest round of renovations that dolled up the suites and such? The angle now being "Any further improvements would be to bring the Super Bowl, erego the city has vested interest to help out."

Not saying I buy it but that's what I thought he was playing.


----------



## carnifex2005

carnifex2005 said:


> Seattle sports-arena talks well under way, documents show
> 
> A wealthy San Francisco hedge-fund manager and officials in the Seattle mayor's office have been working behind the scenes for eight months to bring an NBA team back to the city as early as next fall and build a new arena, according to emails and documents that reveal a far more concerted effort than previously known.
> 
> A Dec. 13 agenda for a meeting between the parties shows they were talking about details such as a "Review of Basic Deal Structure," "Financing Issues," including "City Debt Capacity," and "Security for Public Financing."
> 
> The documents, released Friday to The Seattle Times under a public-disclosure request, also provide the first glimpse of how the largely unknown hedge-fund manager, 44-year-old Seattle native Christopher Hansen, approached the city about his desire to buy an NBA team and build an arena south of Safeco Field.


NBA arena backer Chris Hansen to reveal Seattle plan Thursday

A much-awaited proposal from Chris Hansen, the wealthy San Francisco mystery man who wants to build a sports arena in Seattle to lure NBA and NHL teams, is slated to be unveiled Thursday by Mayor Mike McGinn, according to sources familiar with the matter.

Hansen plans to privately reveal details of his offer to McGinn, who is expected to hold a news conference without Hansen present to discuss the proposal, said one source with direct knowledge of the talks.

But final arrangements of the news conference were still being worked out Wednesday night, without firm word on whether it will happen, said a City Hall source briefed on the plans.


----------



## michael.v.lescano

*SEATTLE - New NHL/NBA arena*

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/...osed-for-hosting-NBA-NHL-teams-139470698.html

New sports arena proposal unveiled for NBA, NHL teams
By KOMO Staff Published: Feb 16, 2012 at 1:57 PM PST Last Updated: Feb 16, 2012 at 2:44 PM PST

Comments (35)
Print
Email

King County Executive Dow Constantine (left) and Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn announce the sports arena proposal at a news conference.
SEATTLE - A proposal to build a major new Seattle sports arena with the capacity to host an NBA and NHL team was unveiled Thursday in a news conference.

Mayor Mike McGinn and King County Executive Dow Constantine jointly announced the plan to applause and cheers at an afternoon news conference at Seattle City Hall. 

No new taxes would be used to fund the new arena under his plan, and comes at a time when both the NBA and NHL have franchises potentially looking for new homes.

Chris Hansen, hedge fund manager and Seattle native, is behind the proposal, which he has been discussing with city and county officials for several months.

Under the plan, the arena would be located south of Safeco Field in the SoDo stadium district of Seattle. It would have the capacity to host an NBA franchise to replace the Seattle SuperSonics, an NHL pro hockey team, concerts and other large-scale events.

"It would mean that Seattle SuperSonics could play once again in our city," McGinn said.

Added Constantine: "This is a great and optimistic day for our city and our county."

In his proposal, Hansen pledges to raise $290 million in private investment for the facility. In addition, he and his investor group would pay the costs of acquiring an NBA team, for a total commitment of some $500 million.

Hansen also would seek a partner who would recruit an NHL team to the new facility, under the plan.

Any additional costs would be financed by a combination of tax revenues generated by the facility and rental income paid by the teams, according to Hansen's proposal.

"The $200 million investment from the county and city would be repaid (from) revenue that would not otherwise exist," McGinn said.

Constantine and McGinn said any agreement to build a new arena must meet certain criteria, including a requirement that it be self-funding and not rely on new taxes.

Private investors must bear the risk for revenue shortfalls and any cost overruns must be the responsibility of private investors, under the criteria announced by McGinn and Constantine.

"On first look, we have an exciting proposal that, if successful, would mean hundreds of millions of dollars of private investment in our city - an investment that means even more during our city's fragile economic recovery," McGinn said.

But Constantine cautioned that there is much more work to be done before the proposal can become a reality.

"It's not game settled - this is the tipoff of the first game of the preseason," he said. "It's just great to have a chance to get back on the court."

It's not clear which NBA or NHL team would come to Seattle under the proposal. 

But many analysts say the most likely NBA franchise would be the Sacramento Kings. That team is in a battle with the city down there to build a new arena - and March 1 is the deadline for a plan.


----------



## shhyvoodoo

Please bring back the Sonics!!
If I was the maloofs, I would call Hansen like yesterday and get this deal done...


----------



## GunnerJacket

As long as it doesn't impact the Sounders fan support, I'm okay with this!


----------



## JJG

GunnerJacket said:


> As long as it doesn't impact the Sounders fan support, I'm okay with this!


It shouldn't....


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## Welkin

This seems like an odd location for an arena. Doesn't Seattle have any better options? I know it's down by the other stadiums, but this is in a low rise industrial and port area. Arenas tend to do very well when they are downtown located around bars and restaurants for before and after the games. I don't see anything like that here. Just north of CenturyLink Field looks rather nice, but this location is a good mile or more away from that area. I know you can basically stick an arena anywhere (just ask any of us who have been to a Senators game in Ottawa) but why do it if you have better options? You would think that Seattle would have learned their lesson with Key Arena.


----------



## carnifex2005

Welkin said:


> This seems like an odd location for an arena. Doesn't Seattle have any better options? I know it's down by the other stadiums, but this is in a low rise industrial and port area. Arenas tend to do very well when they are downtown located around bars and restaurants for before and after the games. I don't see anything like that here. Just north of CenturyLink Field looks rather nice, but this location is a good mile or more away from that area. I know you can basically stick an arena anywhere (just ask any of us who have been to a Senators game in Ottawa) but why do it if you have better options? You would think that Seattle would have learned their lesson with Key Arena.


That is by far the best location. All the bars are about a 10 minute walk away. Basically behind Century Link Field in the pic I posted above.


----------



## JiminyCricket

Welkin said:


> This seems like an odd location for an arena. Doesn't Seattle have any better options? I know it's down by the other stadiums, but this is in a low rise industrial and port area. Arenas tend to do very well when they are downtown located around bars and restaurants for before and after the games. I don't see anything like that here. Just north of CenturyLink Field looks rather nice, but this location is a good mile or more away from that area. I know you can basically stick an arena anywhere (just ask any of us who have been to a Senators game in Ottawa) but why do it if you have better options? You would think that Seattle would have learned their lesson with Key Arena.


Key Arena is in a great spot actually, in an Urban park surrounded by a thriving urban neighborhood with lots of restaurants, bars, and lots of entertainment like the Space Needle, rides, and EMP/Science Fiction Museum. The problem with it was it's small size and lack of suites, it was considered 'unprofitable'.


----------



## Welkin

*


carnifex2005 said:



That is by far the best location. All the bars are about a 10 minute walk away. Basically behind Century Link Field in the pic I posted above.

Click to expand...

Key Arena is in a great spot actually, in an Urban park surrounded by a thriving urban neighborhood with lots of restaurants, bars, and lots of entertainment like the Space Needle, rides, and EMP/Science Fiction Museum. The problem with it was it's small size and lack of suites, it was considered 'unprofitable'.*

I stand corrected. Go Sonics.


----------



## KyleinOKC

Nephasto said:


> And is thata bad?! To break even!?!
> They organized some great olimpics and modernized all athens!!


Damn shame a difference of nearly 7 years between this post and now makes.

*Riot police guard Greek assembly as protesters gather*

Riot police shielded Greece's national parliament Sunday as demonstrators gathered to protest against austerity measures on the eve of talks in Brussels on a 130-billion-euro ($171 billion) bailout needed to avert bankruptcy. Hopes for a deal at the meeting of euro zone finance ministers have risen after Athens last week detailed new budget cuts. But skeptics, led by Germany, are wary about Greece's determination to shrink its debt mountain. ...


----------



## KyleinOKC

HoldenV8 said:


> Ok, for those of you who have been to MLB stadiums in the USA & Canada, and also to the Minor League stadiums, which, in your opinion, would you rate as the best and why?


OK, I know this post is around 7 years old but I am not going to rifle through 200 plus pages to see if somebody answered this dude 

Oklahoma City AT&T Bricktown Ballpark:












































The Old All Sports Stadium:


----------



## eMKay

IMHO Best MLB Stadium is a tossup between Target Field and PNC Park. I have only been to one Minor League park (Coca Cola Field, Buffalo), it was once by far the best in minor league ball and better than most major league parks. However there are many many excellent minor league parks now and most major league ones have been replaced.


----------



## Scba

My favorite minor league park is the one in Reading PA (whatever its current name is), but that's more due to atmosphere. The actual stadium's a dump. Best design that I've been to is in Aberdeen MD, but the general atmosphere is a complete 180 from Reading's.


----------



## jay stew

^^FirstEnergy Stadium.


----------



## en1044

If anyone hasn't heard this yet....

Speaking of minor league parks and such, you guys should check out the website for the Red Sox new spring training park--JetBlue Park.

jetbluepark.com


----------



## James8686

WTF? You think that is ugly!! You are sooo wrong! 
__________________


----------



## Commandant

Renderings of Tulane's proposed on-campus stadium:


----------



## Commandant

Proposed Baylor on-campus stadium:


----------



## Commandant

Expansion plans for Boise State's Bronco Stadium:


----------



## Benn

Why on earth aren't they maintaining the curved geometry of the corners, thats going to look really bad from inside the bowl. Seems like it would make a lot more sense to complete the other end around, lower the field, shift a bit towards the open end and have proper horseshoe with the stands extending down near the field. Maybe this way is cheaper, but it ain't pretty. Too bad that a team so fun too watch couldn't get these expansions executed a bit more cleanly.


I really dig Tulane's proposal though, looks like a great view with great atmopshere in the works if they can get people to show up.


----------



## JJG

Road54WE said:


> Colisseum after the new expansion


Can't see anything.... _which_ Colisseum?


----------



## Commandant

JJG said:


> Can't see anything.... _which_ Colisseum?


Don't bother, it was a spam message.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Benn said:


> Why on earth aren't they maintaining the curved geometry of the corners, thats going to look really bad from inside the bowl. Seems like it would make a lot more sense to complete the other end around, lower the field, shift a bit towards the open end and have proper horseshoe with the stands extending down near the field. Maybe this way is cheaper, but it ain't pretty. Too bad that a team so fun too watch couldn't get these expansions executed a bit more cleanly.


Boise did have a plan that would do comparable to what you're proposing, and that the existing second tier would become a complete bowl with new stands placed underneath to make a new complete 1st tier. However, the team now fields they're in a race to get bigger before the next wave of realignments leaves them on the "outside," and the fastest and cheapest way to do that is via an independent structure. Supposedly it will be placed so that the field could be shifted and the existing tiers can someday be rounded off on the other end. 



> I really dig Tulane's proposal though, looks like a great view with great atmopshere in the works if they can get people to show up.


Agreed. I think Tulane football could become quite solid with a proper venue, and that there'd be enough people in the area who like football but don't want to be consumed by LSU that would appreciate the product. Plus, anything that sticks even a tiny craw into the LSU faithful is a good thing in my book. :colgate:


----------



## WesTexas

I like all of those.


----------



## carnifex2005

New turf for Century Link Field in Seattle. It is FieldTurf Revolution and the Seattle Seahawks are going to be the first team in the NFL to use it. It's going to get a lot of use in the next two seasons since the Washington Huskies football team are going to be sharing the stadium with the Seahawks and Sounders while Husky Stadium gets rebuilt.


----------



## JJG

carnifex2005 said:


> New turf for Century Link Field in Seattle. It is FieldTurf Revolution and the Seattle Seahawks are going to be the first team in the NFL to use it. It's going to get a lot of use in the next two seasons since the Washington Huskies football team are going to be sharing the stadium with the Seahawks and Sounders while Husky Stadium gets rebuilt.


.... I had NO idea that Hawks Nest was bench seating. 

(learn somethin' new everyday)


----------



## Welkin

JJG said:


> .... I had NO idea that Hawks Nest was bench seating.
> 
> (learn somethin' new everyday)


That new field looks nice. It is definitely an upgrade. Is it just me or does the Hawk's Nest look rather steep? I would be fine walking up it to a seat, but walking down after a beer or six might be an issue. Anyway, it is a beautiful stadium.


----------



## KyleinOKC

Commandant said:


> Proposed Baylor on-campus stadium:


What's with the euro-roof design?


----------



## Benn

Wealthy Baylor alums are above getting sunburn?


----------



## JJG

KyleinOKC said:


> What's with the euro-roof design?


I highly doubt that roof stays on. This isn't the final design....


----------



## Topher51

GunnerJacket said:


> Door swings both ways. Newer stadiums can include all the bells and whistles cherished by recruits and big donors, to say nothing of concourses capable of all the space for eateries, sufficient bathrooms, etc. And sometimes the costs for an expansion can outweight the benefits. Or the outcome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldstadia.com


I have still never seen anything on why Georgia Tech added that odd looking overhang in the endzone. Any insight, Jacket?


----------



## GunnerJacket

The budget couldn't allow for relocating or renovating the building you see in that corner of the stadium. So, in simplest terms they essentially raised that section of the bottom tier up to the second one so as to account for a roof line of the adjoining building. 

So you might ask _"Why didn't they just make the whole second tier come down to that level?"_ Because the rest of the stands feature a row of suites between the tiers, and due to design considerations for incorporating those suites with the rest of the stadium, they weren't going to work at a lower height. And Tech did legitimately need more premium seating.

Tech could've held out on the second tier all together and ended up with a structure somewhere in the 46k capacity range, but they were told that in order to justify the construction loans they needed to show a significant increase in capacity and they were at 45k before. Alas, the fund raising went slower than hoped and the design was ultimately done on the cheap - A compromise in trying to maximize capacity with little regard to overall calibre of the structure.

I really, really wish they'd overspent on making a lower second tier that matched that on the east stands shown in your picture, looking something like BC's Alumni Stadium. Tech could've filled in the corners later and possibly add at the south stand eventually as the office space is moved. It'd be smaller but infinitely more charming and filled more often. But Tech's alumni notoriously give mostly to the school and less so the athletic dept., which has made great strides but is so constrained for land and managing older buildings. (This is the oldest on-campus venue in 1A) 

Put simply, it's an example of architecture done without any art or craft. It functions, but it doesn't inspire. And in this instance I don't blame the architects, as they were simply following orders.


----------



## eMKay

Topher51 said:


> I have still never seen anything on why Georgia Tech added that odd looking overhang in the endzone. Any insight, Jacket?


Put a roof on that crazy thing at it would be at home in the EPL


----------



## Darloeye

eMKay said:


> Put a roof on that crazy thing at it would be at home in the EPL


yeah but do like that skyline :cheers:


----------



## joezierer

eMKay said:


> Put a roof on that crazy thing at it would be at home in the EPL


It'd still be nicer than anything in Buffalo.


----------



## JJG

joezierer said:


> It'd still be nicer than anything in Buffalo.


Uncalled for.


----------



## derzberb

Topher51 said:


> I have still never seen anything on why Georgia Tech added that odd looking overhang in the endzone. Any insight, Jacket?


seriously: what is wrong with it? looks in a way unique.


----------



## eMKay

derzberb said:


> seriously: what is wrong with it? looks in a way unique.


Who said there was anything wrong with it? One person called it odd, I called it crazy, doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it.


----------



## derzberb

i would like to call it funny, then.


----------



## GunnerJacket

derzberb said:


> seriously: what is wrong with it? looks in a way unique.


As an afficianado of historic soccer stadiums in Europe I can appreciate the asymmetry, as well as the idea of working with a budget. As a GT grad and fan, however, what is "wrong" about it reads thus:

- The budgetary constraints shortchanged many design elements that are now coming back to haunt the Institute. Amenities and space along the renovated east stands (sidelines facing the camera above) and even within the new north stands are already considered inadequate, to say nothing of lacking character. Very bare bones, and already being redressed for one utility upgrade and to remodel concession areas. You can see one shot of the exterior here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/roundamerica/3068212651/, and the Techwood drive side is, IMO, even more tacky.

- The design also restricts future expansion and/or renovation, even if the Edge building is someday removed from that corner. Rounding that end to match the other side and marry-up with the east stand's upper deck would require tearing away part of the new north stand. In other words, any hope of modifying the structure would be more costly than needed.

- The particular shape of the new upper-north tier and the configuration of the overhang has a killing effect on the noise. Sitting in that stand you have difficulty even hearing the band... which is in the lower tier just below you! Tech fans generally avoid this area because of it. We're told material changes and framing design of the stand plays a part, and know that the architects did away with all the top-shelf features usually employed in stadiums these days.

- The main reason the costs for the expansion were so restricted was because much of the total project funds went to renovating the east stands to improve ADA accommodations. This was necessary because they refuse to touch the west stands for fear of the huge costs in bringing that historic structure into full ADA compliance. As a result there's little harmony between all the stadiums components, and the concessions for the west stands remain sad. 

- GT, sadly, didn't need 55k. That was a target level used by a previous coach (O'Leary) in his contract negotiation demands. 50k would be near perfect since it's a comparably small school and so seeing so many empty seats has been a real morale killer. Considering almost all of this was funded through loans, it suggests they shouldn't settled on a smaller product for less overall money, as the return for seldom used seats can't be that high.

It's not butt ugly, and like I said it works in the simplest sense. But considering the pedigree of the program and the designs being realized at places like TCU, Miss St, etc, GT deserves much better. I'd rather they have an architectural gem that's highly undersized than simply a glorified high school stadium.


----------



## ihav3nofri3ndzz

KingmanIII said:


> they're supposed to be enclosing the end zone opposite of the new expansion:


the addition in the endzone(bottom of the pic) is so out of place and ruins the whole flow of the stadium. I know it's been a concern of some that this new addition will ruin the view of the skyline/mtns for the rest of the stadium. Whether that's worth protecting or not is completely debatable, but, I know I definitely don't like this concept. I feel they can do better. They still haven't removed the track and lowered the field yet which as far as I know is the first thing that will be done. This whole additional endzone is several years away. Probably several from even being started. Although, Boise decides to start things at odd times. I mean, who removes giant sections of sidewalk in the middle of a semester? Oh well.


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## Jen5JamQ

of the smaller stadiums are from the NFL


----------



## carnifex2005

Her's a story about Las Vegas making an exact replica of the Nurburgring.


----------



## Welkin

carnifex2005 said:


> Her's a story about Las Vegas making an exact replica of the Nurburgring.


Its time to add that one to my bucket list. Wow, that is going to be fun.


----------



## nomarandlee

For those of you who don't know where DePaul is it is in Chicagos near north side in its Lincoln Park neighborhood.



> http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/spo...new-arena-on-fullerton-and-sheffield-20120327
> 
> *DePaul University Plans to Build New Basketball Arena on Fullerton and Sheffield: Exclusive*
> 
> Plan pending trustee approval
> 
> Updated: Wednesday, 28 Mar 2012, 2:48 PM CDT
> 
> By Joanie Lum, FOX Chicago News
> 
> Chicago - It's long been a desire of students and alumni to be able to attend basketball games near the campus.
> 
> FOX Chicago's Lou Canellis reports that the preferred location is Fullerton and Sheffield, where DePaul already has a parking lot.
> 
> That corner is steps away from the CTA Fullerton stop on the edge of campus. If it happens, would mean the influx of 10,000-12,000 fans coming to the neighborhood to attend a Blue Demons basketball game, in what already is considered a congested area..........
> 
> There were rumors about other locations: the Finkl Steel plant on Cortland and the Morton Salt Company on Elston.
> 
> The university did not have a comment about specific locations. But DePaul did send out a statement:
> 
> "A proposal to explore opportunities that address this... is among many ideas on a wide range of issues that are part of the current draft of the university's next long-range strategic plan. The strategic plan is pending trustee approval. The university has a great relationship with Allstate Arena, where the men's program has played the last 32 seasons and we most recently hosted the women's NCAA 1st and 2nd rounds this season."
> 
> The contract with Allstate Arena ends in 2015.


----------



## eMKay

Welkin said:


> Its time to add that one to my bucket list. Wow, that is going to be fun.


Having been to the real one twice, I'm prepared to be underwhelmed.


----------



## seatokyote-ite

*SEATTLE-Downtown Waterfont Arena/Convention Center*

*Developer pitching downtown waterfront arena, convention center *










At this point strickly a concept but rumblings in city to move forward with a new arena have been louder than ever so we will see what occurs in time:

Credit: 

KING 5 News 
Developer pitching downtown waterfront arena, convention center 
by CHRIS DANIELS / KING 5 News
Bio | Email| Follow: @ChrisDaniels5 KING5.com
Posted on March 29, 2012 at 10:31 PM
Updated Friday, Mar 30 at 4:58 PM 

SEATTLE - John Torrance can rattle off the numbers with the best of them.
He can quote how many people are in the Seattle-metro area, the size of the convention center, or the city’s rank in the TV markets all off the top of his head.

But nowadays, he seemed focused on one number: 46. As in Pier 46.

Torrance, a Vice President at CB Richard Ellis, is pitching building an arena/convention center/ferry terminal on the Pier. He’s not the first person to do that. Back in 2008, former Sonic “Downtown” Freddie Brown was talking about building an “Emerald City Center” there to host an NBA and NHL team.

Torrance claims, he’s been working on this for two years, and is finally ready to go public. He’s released a series of architechtural drawings, which he believes could drum up support to build the complex, currently leased to Hanjin shipping.

“It fills two big needs,” he says by phone. “It’s a perfect spot.”

But unlike Chris Hansen, down the street, Torrance doesn’t own the land. He also doesn’t have the backing of big money investors, yet.

There is also another issue. The land is not for sale.

Peter McGraw, spokesperson for the Port, called the idea a “non-starter”. “We have no plans to make plans,” said McGraw. “We’d like Hanjin to be here for a long time.”

Brian Robinson, who founded Arena Solution, and has been an advocate for the Hansen proposal and efforts in Bellevue, says other proposals are further along. “The proposed development of Pier 46 is conceptual in nature. It currently lacks the support of key government officials and a committed ownership group willing to bring the NBA or NHL to any arena that could be put there. Until these components are identified there is a real risk that it will distract officials from the more viable project.”

Torrance seems undeterred, and says he’s still working with national developers on the project, and hopes to reveal more soon


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## Jericho-79

An NBA/NHL arena, convention center, and ferry dock all in one.

Thought I've seen everything.


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## Darloeye

Some of that design look like the Baltimore Arena design.


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## seatokyote-ite

Jericho-79 said:


> An NBA/NHL arena, convention center, and ferry dock all in one.
> 
> Thought I've seen everything.


Actually, the proposal is well thought after. You are keeping the maritime powers happy, by allowing ship/transit open in an already tight shipping area of Elliot bay with the transformation of a cargo staging area. You are opening up new convention space and arena space in a city that lacks property space for an arena keeping it in a stones throw of a heavly populated sports entertainment area. With the tranformation of the waterfront slowly underway with the removal of the viaduct, it is an attractive offer plus It certainly beats moving the arena to the burbs.


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## BoulderGrad

seatokyote-ite said:


> Actually, the proposal is well thought after. You are keeping the maritime powers happy, by allowing ship/transit open in an already tight shipping area of Elliot bay with the transformation of a cargo staging area. You are opening up new convention space and arena space in a city that lacks property space for an arena keeping it in a stones throw of a heavly populated sports entertainment area. With the tranformation of the waterfront slowly underway with the removal of the viaduct, it is an attractive offer plus It certainly beats moving the arena to the burbs.


Don't see how this makes it any more open for shipping. You're just kindof moving the ferry dock closer to the cargo shipping docks.

Don't forget the fact too that they're proposing building this on top of a still heavily used container staging area. The port would have to agree to selling that first and then find a way to recoup the lost capacity. Not to mention now you have Ferrys and Cruise ships constantly crossing your paths now instead of other cargo ships.


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## seatokyote-ite

When referring to “opening shipping” the reference was meant by opening adequate facilities to hosting cruise ships. Currently with the increasing cruise ship industry Seattle’s facilities are less then subpar so one would have to look at this as an opportunity to increase the standards. Currently the Port of Seattle is earning roughly 4.6 million dollars from Hanjin a year on what is already a back and forth leasing fiscal with this space threatening more and more to shift more towards Tacoma/South Puget Sound, so how much revenue can be produced with an actual competitive arena, convention facility, an NBA franchise/NHL franchise and a more attactive cruise ship area?

I am all about how Seattle was developed but, I also like the out with the old in with the new standards with the waterfront revitalizing an all together better more attractive shoreline for the people. I feel it is an opportunity to still have shipping and revenue but at the same time, increasing tourism, the potential revenue with an NBA/NHL relocation and boosting convention intake which all will create jobs as well in replacement of Hanjin. 
It’s obvious that there will be red-tape and controversy along the way and maybe chances are slim however, I envision it as the investors do as a shift in the right direction if it plays out as planned. Overall our arena revenue sucks and is hardly where it should be as business is shifted to either an outdated Tacoma Dome, or a more updated facilities in Spokane/Portland with the newer state of the art facilities there.


----------



## BergenScooterPatrol

M's against arena in neighborhood



> SEATTLE -- For now, the Seattle Mariners believe a proposal to build a new NBA/NHL arena in Seattle needs to find a different home.
> 
> The Mariners sent a formal letter to the city of Seattle and King County officials Tuesday opposing the idea of a new multipurpose arena in the same neighborhood as the Mariners' home of Safeco Field.
> 
> The letter, signed by Mariners chairman Howard Lincoln, cited concerns about traffic and scheduling of events taking place in an area that already features Safeco Field and CenturyLink Field -- the home to the Seattle Seahawks and Sounders.
> 
> In the letter, obtained by KJR-AM and later by The Associated Press, Lincoln says the franchise supports the idea of the NBA returning to Seattle, but that an exhaustive examination of various sites for a new arena in the greater Seattle area needs to be conducted.
> 
> "The proposed SODO location, in our view, simply does not work," Lincoln wrote. "It would bring scheduling, traffic and parking challenges that would likely require hundreds of millions of dollars to mitigate. We doubt that an arena could succeed financially at this location, given mitigation costs and necessary scheduling limitations. Without highly restrictive scheduling limitations, traffic gridlock would put all of the area's teams at risk."
> 
> The Mariners are the first and largest local organization to express its desire for Christopher Hansen to look at other site options for his proposed arena. Hansen, a wealthy San Francisco venture capitalist and Seattle native, owns land adjacent to the Mariners' parking garage and has proposed a new arena that would cost between $450 million and $500 million and would include $290 million in private investment. Hansen's group also would be responsible for the purchase of an NBA franchise and finding a partner interested in bringing an NHL franchise to Seattle.
> 
> The public financing component of the proposal would be capped at $200 million, and paid back through taxes and rent collected on the tenants of a gleaming new building. An arena review panel created by Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn and King County executive Dow Constantine is expected to give its recommendation about Hansen's proposal Wednesday.
> 
> In his letter, Lincoln says the Mariners are completely in favor of the NBA returning to the region following the departure of the SuperSonics for Oklahoma City following the 2008 season.
> 
> Lincoln suggested suburbs of Renton and Bellevue, along with Seattle neighborhoods of South Lake Union and Seattle Center -- where KeyArena sits -- should be looked at for a new facility. The Mariners cited the decision on where Safeco Field sits, saying that site was settled on after a year of public conversation.
> 
> "Regardless of which site is ultimately chosen, this needs to be a thoughtful public process that balances the preference of one investor with all of the region's important commercial, transportation and maritime interests, as well as the long-term interests of the region's fans," Lincoln wrote.
> 
> Later Tuesday, the Port of Seattle released a letter it sent to the arena advisory committee expressing its concerns over traffic in the area of the proposed venue and supporting the idea of looking at alternate sites.
> 
> Lincoln later wrote that should an extensive evaluation determine the neighboring site is best for a new arena, the Mariners will work with the city and Hansen's group to mitigate as many issues as possible. McGinn later issued a statement saying the issues the Mariners raised about transportation would be raised in the environmental review process.
> 
> "This is a Seattle-specific proposal to locate an arena in Seattle's stadium district, which was created for stadiums after an extensive process of review," McGinn said. "As mayor, I will work to address the Mariner's concerns, as I continue working with King County and Chris Hansen to bring an NBA and NHL team to Seattle."


----------



## seatokyote-ite

Surprise surprise... Nintendo is not in favor of an arena on leased Hanjin space. As if one could not see that comming as far as the M's protecting the interest.. they should be more worried about re-bulding a franshise then the development of another. I remember hearing rumblings of the same traffic congestion with the building of SAFECO.. Hello people you want to grow like a real city, lets utilize mass transit more effectivly then.. ha ha.. I cring at the thought of this stadium moving to SUBURB Bellevue or Renton yuck... Thunderbirds moving to The Showare Center in Kent was bad enough, a new arena especially in E. Suburb land would really kill Kent's arena..


----------



## seatokyote-ite

Mariners might rue the day they interfered with proposed Sodo arena

Mariners are asking for a public-relations nightmare by opposing Chris Hansen's arena proposal, even if some of their concerns are valid.






By Jerry Brewer

Seattle Times staff columnist



Related

Latest arena developments




Jerry, you nailed it "The Mariners sound like stingy, grumpy old men yelling for H... (April 4, 2012, by Emeralddeacon) MORE 



Funny. Not sure anything can be more of a congestion mess than mercer street during... (April 4, 2012, by yerkdawg) MORE 












Rue the day.

Mariners president Chuck Armstrong exhumed that ancient cliché Wednesday as he spoke to several media outlets while attempting to do the impossible: explain why the local baseball team has a beef with Chris Hansen's proposal to build an NBA/NHL arena in its backyard.

"Our view is that Hansen, if he built it in that location, he would rue the day he did it," Armstrong told me, repeating a line he used on 97.3 KIRO-FM earlier in the day.

Why? Because of traffic.

Yeah, traffic.

Though the Mariners raise valid concerns, it comes across as silly, maybe even petty, to listen to a sports franchise with a publicly funded stadium complain this much about another project. The Port of Seattle, which is concerned about protecting billions of dollars in maritime business revenue, has a legitimate gripe, and it expressed its view strongly in a letter to the city's Arena Advisory Panel earlier this week. The Mariners followed Tuesday with their own letter to civic leaders, which officially outs them as major opposition.

The Mariners say they are all for the NBA and NHL coming to Seattle, but not in their 'hood. They don't want the congested Sodo area to become unbearable. They're worried about hindering their "fan experience," and because they haven't been to the playoffs since 2001, they know a lot about hindering a fan experience. They're using words such as "ingress" and "egress" to give their argument some sophistication.

Look at it objectively. They have a point. Problem is, it's a molehill issue that isn't worth it for them. The Mariners sound like stingy, grumpy old men yelling for Hansen to get off their lawn. Even worse, they risk alienating far more fans than they already have during this decadelong dry spell.

Because of traffic.

"The proposed Sodo location, in our view, simply does not work," Mariners chairman and chief executive officer Howard Lincoln wrote in the letter. "It would bring scheduling, traffic and parking challenges that would likely require hundreds of millions of dollars to mitigate."

The Mariners are calling for a well-thought process, which is a reasonable request. It's what Hansen wants, too. They can work together, and if the Mariners want to get rid of the perception that they're being selfish, they will have to be cooperative moving forward.

Adding a sports/entertainment arena that would seek to have 200 events a year would be a problem if nothing is done to alleviate traffic and parking issues. Everyone gets that. The Mariners don't need to bark about it. It's understood. The Arena Advisory Panel already has noted it.

The Mariners must recognize the big picture: Losing the Sonics four years ago caused irreparable damage to the city's sports morale. Bringing them back, along with the NHL, isn't just a nice wish. It's a must to reinvent Seattle's sports culture and infuse the region with a fresh spirit and hope.

Hansen doesn't just have an idea. He has offered the best arena plan the city may ever see. His group has pledged $290 million toward the project, and the rest of the financing is clever and unobtrusive for the average citizen. If the Mariners remain objectors and Hansen's project fails, many fans will never forgive them.

Because of traffic.

Worth it?

"That's an excellent question," Armstrong said. "In the sports business, perception oftentimes becomes reality. Yeah, there's a risk. But suppose we just say, 'Yeah, we support it,' and four or five years from now that area becomes a total quagmire because we didn't speak up? It's a difficult line to draw, but people need to know what our concerns are. Let's have a process and discuss them."

Asked a pointed question about the Mariners being afraid of competition, Armstrong said, "That's just wrong." Asked if the team is conspiring with the Port of Seattle to ruin Hansen's proposal, Armstrong said, "We're not in cahoots with the Port." Asked about the Mariners' financial contribution to a polling of local residents that seems both anti-arena and deviously deceptive, with questions such as whether they would support a sports arena over public schools (which is as far from the issue as it gets), Armstrong said, "I have not seen any of the questions."

The Mariners have been in the sports business long enough to know they can't be the good and bad guy. Their take is nuanced, but they will be looked upon as an enemy of Hansen, an enemy of the Sonics revival and an enemy of the hope that many local sports fans have right now.

Is that an overstated mischaracterization? Probably. Remember, the Mariners hosted an incredible, first-class Sonics Night last season. But are overstated mischaracterizations common in our black-and-white sports world? Absolutely.

The Mariners are engaging in a fight they can't win. Did you notice that their Sodo pals, the Seahawks and Sounders FC, have been savvy enough to take the high road? If the NBA and NHL come to Sodo, it'll now be considered a middle finger to the Mariners. If they don't come, the Mariners may have even fewer traffic worries than they do now because some casual fans will boycott them.

Irrational sports fans aren't the only ones shaking their heads. During an interview on Sports Radio KJR on Wednesday, City Councilmember Bruce Harrell didn't sound too happy with Lincoln's letter, either.

"I was disappointed in the substance and tone," Harrell said. "Many of the issues they raise are non-issues."

The Mariners say they're open to collaborating with Hansen on a resolution, and such cooperation needs to happen as soon as possible to alter their public image.

Otherwise, their days will be filled with the most rue.

Jerry Brewer: 206-464-2277 or [email protected]. On Twitter @Jerry_Brewer.


----------



## Black Box

I'm fine with it in SODO, just not on the waterfront.


----------



## Bobby3

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/04/05/3150906/city-staff-recommends-giving-9.html

That's about a potential Uptown baseball stadium in Charlotte for our AAA team, the Knights. They currently play across the state line in Fort Mill, South Carolina where they've been since the 80's, before that they played at Crockett Park (named for the wrestling promoter) in Charlotte.

Knights Castle in Fort Mill isn't *that* far away, but people think it is. Plus there isn't much to do in Fort Mill (I don't actually mind Fort Mill, it's alright). This would be good, people could get to games via public transit this way (which is good because they drink) and it's centrally located so you don't have to use the interstate. I hate the interstate.

A shade roof would be nice because it gets real hot, but it's fine without one.


----------



## mrakbaseball

seatokyote-ite said:


> *Developer pitching downtown waterfront arena, convention center *


No renderings of Hansen's proposed arena near the Safeco Field garage?


----------



## nomarandlee

> http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...ment-chicago-bulls-blackhawks,0,6636341.story
> 
> *Report: New development in works next to United Center*
> 
> 2:44 p.m. CDT, April 28, 2012
> Crain's Chicago Business reports: Chicago Bulls owner Jerry Reinsdorf and Chicago Blackhawks owner Rocky Wirtz are working to put together a privately funded $75-$85 million development on a parking lot east of United Center.
> 
> The 260,000-square-foot development, which could include restaurancts, bars, a team store, event space and team offices, would connect with the stadium's east side via an atrium-like entrance.


..via spyguy @ SSP



spyguy said:


> Even though the Bulls might be done for the playoffs (let's hope not), at least Reinsdorf is finally set to take advantage of the excitement surrounding the Hawks/Bulls. LA Live Lite.
> 
> http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20120428/ISSUE01/304289963/united-center-plans-retail-space
> 
> *United Center plans retail space
> By Ryan Ori and Micah Maidenberg*
> 
> Not far from the Michael Jordan statue, the United Center's owners hope a $75 million to $85 million retail development soon will take flight.
> Chicago Bulls owner Jerry Reinsdorf is leading a venture that plans to build 260,000 square feet of restaurants, bars, a team store and event space in the sprawling parking lot east of the arena, according to documents obtained by Crain's. Chicago Blackhawks owner Rocky Wirtz would be part of the venture, which could include team offices, parking, a terrace and a green roof..........


----------



## vivaldi mausefalle

*COPPER PEAK SKI FLYING HILL - Ironwood, MI, USA*

The only ski flying hill in _Western Hemisphere_: The smallest one of six existing in the world.

*Hill name*: Copper Peak
*Location*: Ironwood, Michigan, USA
*Constructor*: Heini Klopfer
*Opened*: 1970
*Last jumps*: 1994
*Status*: out of order, but under re-construction; plans to reconstruct hill to international FIS standards 
*Hill Record*: 158 m (518 ft)
*Club*: Gogebic Range Ski Club
*Owner*: Copper Peak Inc.
*Member of*: K.O.P. (club of all ski flying hills; originally just *Kulm*-*Oberstdorf*-*Planica*)
*Official site*: http://www.copperpeak.com/ and http://www.copperpeak.org/
*Other site*: http://www.skisprungschanzen.com/EN...States/MI-Michigan/Ironwood/0575-Copper+Peak/
























*Year Opened*-_*Location*-*Hill name*_ (of all other Ski Flying hills): 

*1969 - *Planica (Slovenia) - "Letalnica bratov Gorišek"* 
*1936 - *Vikersund (NOR) - "Vikersundbakken"* 
*1979 - *Harrachov (CZE) - "Čerťák"* 
*1950 - *Oberstdorf (GER) - "Heini Klopfer Schanze"* 
*1950 - *Bad Mittendorf (AUT) - "Kulm"*


----------



## vivaldi mausefalle

*World Cup*:
-only 2 events in 1981 (1st ski flying World Cup event ever)
-both won by *Anton Lipburger* (Austria)

*Hill Record* (1994):
*158 m (518 ft) -Mathias Wallner (AUT)
*158 m (518 ft) -Werner Schuster (AUT)

*Inrun Tower*:
*height - 73 m / 240 ft (highest ski jumping inrun tower in the world)


----------



## vivaldi mausefalle

*Plans to enlarge and rebuild the hill*

*The profile of the ski flying hill is out-dated and has no FIS certificate anymore, so it takes a huge financial effort to reconstruct the hill to international standards. Nevertheless the Copper Peak Inc. tries to revive the ski flying hill. 

*There are plans to rebuild the jump, so that World Cup or COC events again are possible on the K170-facility. The plan is to spend 250,000 US$ by 2013 for filling the landing hill with 1150 m³ of soil in order to decrease the landing angle from 41° to 36°, as well as building a new judges tower, installing a total of 500 m guardrails and an artificial snow making facility.


----------



## vivaldi mausefalle

Hill Record





Copper Peak 1994, longer video


----------



## vivaldi mausefalle

*INRUN TOWER*


----------



## vivaldi mausefalle

All 6 Ski Flying Hills in the world


----------



## vivaldi mausefalle

*Under construction (progress):*

Charlie Supercynski, President of Copper Peak Inc. speaks in February 2012:

"_We continue to make progress on two important front in our effort to restore ski flying". 

January 2012 - "digging of the 75,000 cubic foot colection pond on the north side of the hill was completed. With the smaller 25,000 cubic foot distribution snow making pond on top completed we will start the construction of the snow-making infrastructure this sprin (2012). This will include the installation of appropriate pumps, controls, pipping, etc. It is estimated this phase of the project will cost in the range of $200,000. With the scarcity of snow this winter, it would have been impossible to host a meet this season reinforcing the need for snow-making system".

A second important project is the installation of the safety fence along landing slope. We have all the necessary hill measurements to install the fence at an estimated cost of $30,000.

We hope to see you at the hill this summer to take in the Adventure Ride. This activity is our primary source of income and your presence will help greatly to provide ne necessary finaces for these two important projects_".

http://www.copperpeak.org/president_speaks.htm


----------



## vivaldi mausefalle

*1970* - *the first event on this hill* (year in youtube title is actually wrong)


----------



## Commandant

Arizona State wants to build a stadium to replace aging Sun Devil Stadium. Some renderings:


----------



## Commandant

Missouri's stadium expansion just won approval...


----------



## JJG

Commandant said:


> Missouri's stadium expansion just won approval...


All for the SEC.....


----------



## Commandant

Boston U is adding a new sports field for men's lacrosse...


----------



## Commandant

Proposed Ole Miss stadium expansion:










Kinnick Stadium renovation renderings:










Kyle Field expansion renderings:










Michigan State Spartan Stadium rendering:


----------



## slipperydog

Commandant said:


> Missouri's stadium expansion just won approval...


What's expanded about it? Looks about the same to me.


----------



## JJG

slipperydog said:


> What's expanded about it? Looks about the same to me.


It's an extra 5,000 seats you're looking at. 

There's some more, but I forgot what else....

BTW:









I'd be better if A&M just demo Kyle Field and start a new. That place has waaaaaaay too many issues.


----------



## vivaldi mausefalle




----------



## vivaldi mausefalle




----------



## vivaldi mausefalle

*Hill Record* 

*1970* | (TCH) *Zbyněk Hubač* | *134* m (*440* ft)

*1973* | (JPN) *Akitsugu Konno* | *136* m (*446* ft)

*1973* | (USA) *Jerry Martin* | *137* m (*449* ft)

*1973* | (JPN) *Akitsugu Konno* | *138* m (*453* ft)

*1974* | (USA) *Tom Dargay* | *144* m (*472* ft)

*1974* | (USA) *Jerry Martin* | *144* m (*472* ft)

*1975* | (USA) *Jerry Martin* | *147* m (*482* ft)

*1976* | (DDR) *Hans-Georg Aschenbach* | *154* m (*505* ft)

*1981-2-13* | (AUT) *Alois Lipburger* | *154* m (*505* ft)

*1990* | (TCH) *Stanislav Vasko* | *156* m (*512* ft)

*1994-1-22* | (AUT) *Mathias Wallner* | *158* m (*518* ft)

*1994-1-23* | (AUT) *Werner Schuster* | *158* m (*518* ft)


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> What's expanded about it? Looks about the same to me.


New upper deck on the far sidelines in that Picture, and the light section of the end-zone seating represents proposed expansion for the future.


----------



## GunnerJacket

So the Michigan State and Iowa projects are almost exclusively for amenity upgrades, eh? Seems right since they're sizable enough and the trend is towards maximizing per-seat revenue. 

Btw, I see Miss St. Has started fund raising for their expansion plans.


----------



## RMB2007

What's the deal with college stadiums and retro architecture?


----------



## GunnerJacket

RMB2007 said:


> What's the deal with college stadiums and retro architecture?


1. The bulk of these venues are on campuses with loads of historic buildings and very traditional institutional architecture.

2. Most of the sports biggest donors are older, nostalgic gents who are trying to maintain ties to their team's history.


----------



## Otto Racecar

RMB2007 said:


> What's the deal with college stadiums and retro architecture?


Also, alot of these stadiums were built in the early 1900's such as spartan stadium in 1923 and kinnick stadium in 1929. These stadiums have had renovations/expansions over the years but generally keep the same aesthetic that they were built with. This is generally the rule in colleges not the exception. The arizona st stadium concept pictured above is an example of a college who is building from scratch in the modern era.


----------



## rantanamo

Most major universities have a masterplan complete with zoning and aesthetic requirements. There are exceptions, but there are usually requirements that the exceptions must meet. One could go radical, but it would require certain landscaping and architectural elements to tie it to the university. A&M wouldn't have as much problem, but a place like Iowa or Missouri have a strong campus aesthetic.


----------



## slipperydog

JJG said:


> I'd be better if A&M just demo Kyle Field and start a new. That place has waaaaaaay too many issues.


New stadium ain't gonna fix the bat poop everywhere


----------



## JJG

:?



slipperydog said:


> New stadium ain't gonna fix the bat poop everywhere


.... that's why I said it would be better to just demolish Kyle Field.


----------



## slipperydog

JJG said:


> :?
> 
> 
> 
> .... that's why I said it would be better to just demolish Kyle Field.


Oh they actually live in the stadium? i had always been under the impression they lived in nearby caves


----------



## JJG

slipperydog said:


> Oh they actually live in the stadium? i had always been under the impression they lived in nearby caves


Well that guano has caused so much structural damage, it's hard to imagine adding more to it. I really don't think they'll have a problem getting rid of the bats. There are warning signs, even...


----------



## Bobby3

I had no idea about the bat poop problem at Kyle Field, that's wild. My old high school's stadium (it actually has a name, Phil Hughston Memorial Stadium) has a problem with goose poop, one time it was so bad they had to move a game.

This is the most informative post in SSC history.


----------



## vivaldi mausefalle




----------



## Marckymarc

*PORTLAND - New Hillsboro Ballpark (4,500)*










The Hillsboro City Council Tuesday night approved a business agreement laying out terms to bring the Yakima Bears "A" league team to a new $15 million stadium to be built alongside Highway 26 in Hillsboro.










The new 4,500 seat baseball park, which would be built near Hillsboro Stadium, would be paid for with bonds to be paid off by ticket surcharges, concession revenue and parking fees. It would also be available for other community uses more than 300 days a year, says Hillsboro Mayor Jerry Willey.

The ballpark agreement now signed by Hillsboro and the Yakima Bears needs to be approved by Northwest, Major and Minor Baseball league organizations by June 29 for "Play Ball" to ring out at the professional level in Hillsboro for the 2013 summer season.

The metro area has been without professional baseball since the Portland Beavers exited two years ago, so the Portland Timbers soccer franchise could take over what's now known as Jeld Wen Field.

http://www.kgw.com/sports/baseball/...roceed-with-15-million-stadium-157401235.html


----------



## carnifex2005

Nice pics. It is a rather amazing stadium.


----------



## JJG

carnifex2005 said:


> Nice pics. It is a rather amazing stadium.


That looks better than my COLLEGE stadium..... 

(You have no idea how sick I am of saying that).


----------



## Benn

I still have a hard time fathoming suites at a high school stadium. Only in Texas


----------



## SJAnfield

JJG said:


> That looks better than my COLLEGE stadium.....
> 
> (You have no idea how sick I am of saying that).


I know the feeling. Sac State grad here


----------



## Enio125

jtk1519 said:


> Bond money can only be used for facilities. It cannot go to hire more teachers or buy textbooks or anything like that. [/IMG]


Thank God! What high school needs to spend money on useless crap like that?


----------



## JJG

Enio125 said:


> Thank God! What high school needs to spend money on useless crap like that?


First off, it's high schools who HAVE big money like Allen. Most schools in the northern suburbs of DFW have plenty of that. 

Second, to think for one second that this is "usless crap", you obviously have no idea what also comes with this place.

- concerts
- playoff games 
- ceremonies

All of which bring added revenue to the community. So no, sir, it's NOT "usless crap".


----------



## rantanamo

They showed the other facilities built in the bond package on the Highlight show on friday. For those complaining about this, they aren't seeing the incredible additions that were made to the school in this bond package. Just incredible school facilities, as well as the stadium having facilities for wrestling, golf and additional football training facilities. First class stuff.


----------



## jtk1519

Enio125 said:


> Thank God! What high school needs to spend money on useless crap like that?


Did you miss my very next sentence about how Allen voted to raise their property taxes so that the district would have more money for teachers, supplies, etc.? In fact, they voted to increase their property taxes to the highest legal rate in the state. Under the state's "Robin Hood" plan which takes money from wealthy districts and gives it to poorer districts, Allen loses a lot of it's tax revenue to other districts.

As for the stadium itself, aside from the fact that it was desperately needed, what they built will generate a lot of revenue for them. Aside from Allen football and soccer games it will host playoff games and, this could have just been baseless fan scuttlebutt, one guy I talked to waiting to get in said the Tom Landry Classic is moving from SMU to Allen and so might the FCS national championship game which is currently played at FC Dallas Stadium in Frisco. Again, could be baseless rumors but the potential for even more revenue is everywhere.

And then there is the practical matter. The new stadium sits across the street from the high school and includes an indoor golf facility and indoor wrestling facilities. Previously the district had to pay to bus the wrestling kids to the freshman campus where the wrestling facilities were. So the district will be saving some $250,000 a year by not having to rent temporary stands for the old stadium and it will save money by having all it's high school facilities at the same spot. 

Now all of that could have probably been done for less than $60 million but they people voted, used their money to build it and afterward then raised their own property taxes to go towards the district's operating budget. Again, this is a very wealthy community (one of the hundred wealthiest in America)that has just about the best of everything in it's schools and it shows in their graduation rates and test scores. It's really hard to find any fault with any of this even if the numbers seem staggering.


----------



## jtk1519

And not to hijack this thread but to put this in perspective, Allen High's current campus is almost 500,000 sq ft and opened in '99 where it contains it's own television studio and a branch of Collin College. The high school band is the largest marching band in the world with some 800 members this year and the campus just opened (paid for with the same bond package that built the stadium) a new career and technology wing which houses, among other things, a student run restaurant and it also built a state of the art performing arts center which itself contains a brand new, $100,000 Steinway grand piano. And it was named a National Blue Ribbon School. This is a high school that was among the biggest and best at almost everything long before the stadium ever opened.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

That stadium looks brilliant, especially on the outside.


----------



## KingmanIII

jtk1519 said:


> As for the stadium itself, it's unreal. I've never seen anything like it. It's nicer I think than SMU's Ford Stadium and that venue is only 12 years old. I like it more than FC Dallas Stadium too.


How would you say it stacks up to UNT and TCU?


----------



## JJG

jtk1519 said:


> As for the stadium itself, it's unreal. I've never seen anything like it. It's nicer I think than SMU's Ford Stadium and that venue is only 12 years old. I like it more than FC Dallas Stadium too.


Amazing thing is, it's probably just (AT BEST) the _5th_ best looking venue in the area.


----------



## Schreiber242




----------



## Ste56phanief

if you didn't read the title.


----------



## Linkin5

Did anyone post pictures of the expansion of Nebraska Memorial Stadium that is currently about halfway done?


----------



## rantanamo

saw it on TV on Saturday. There's barely a steel skeleton of the new deck so far.


----------



## KingmanIII

Linkin5 said:


> Did anyone post pictures of the expansion of Nebraska Memorial Stadium that is currently about halfway done?


From early August:

http://nebraska.rivals.com/photofeature.asp?SID=928&fid=40556



















From late August:


----------



## carnifex2005

Huge news for sports in the United States and in a lot of the world. AEG is being put up for sale.

The company that owns the Staples Center and the Los Angeles Kings announced late Tuesday it is being put up for sale, sparking a potential billion-dollar bidding war for some of the sports and entertainment world's glitziest properties.

The Anschutz Co., run by Denver billionaire Philip Anschutz, said it is seeking a buyer for its AEG subsidiary, which also has stakes in the L.A. Live entertainment venue in downtown Los Angeles, the Los Angeles Kings professional hockey team and the Los Angeles Galaxy pro soccer team.

It's unclear how far along the process is or whether any likely buyers have emerged.

If a deal goes through, it would mark the second blockbuster sports transaction in Southern California this year, following the $2.15-billion purchase of the Los Angeles Dodgers baseball team by Guggenheim Baseball Management. That was a world-record price for a sports franchise.

“Given the success of the management team and employees in establishing AEG as one of the premier real estate development, live sports and entertainment platforms in the world, as well as the value AEG has created with the strategic assets that comprise its platform, this is an appropriate time to transition AEG to a new qualified owner," said Cannon Y. Harvey, Anschutz Co. president.

The AEG unit is pursuing plans to build a professional football stadium next to the Staples Center in hopes that it would serve as the future home of an NFL team.


----------



## KingmanIII

^^ AEG runs Sprint Center too, wonder what this means for KC's prospects for landing a major-league franchise...


----------



## msflier

*El Paso, TX: New AAA Baseball Stadium*










Today the mayor of El Paso, Texas made it official that he will not use his veto, which would overturn the building of a new AAA baseball stadium in downtown El Paso. This means that the Tucson Padres will be sold and moved to El Paso in 2014.

http://ballparkdigest.com/201209205...nt-veto-ballpark-lease-pcl-to-el-paso-in-2014

http://www.elpasotimes.com/newupdated/ci_21591703/mayor-john-cook-opts-against-veto-ballpark-moves


----------



## JJG

RaiderATO said:


> Orioles, A's, Braves, Reds, Nationals, all in the playoffs, and all in the lower 50% of payroll (and all with less that 1/2 of the top 3 $$$$ teams). Half the playoff teams are in the lower half, and all the playoff teams are fairly equally spread throughout the payroll spread. Looks to me like payroll has less to do with success in MLB than any other sport.
> 
> 
> What you're talking about isn't the parity I was talking about. You're talking about the effects of a salary cap. MLB doesn't have a salary cap, yet attains the most parity (in performance) of any american professional sports league.


Yeah, I think he's thinking about the NBA....


----------



## Welkin

RaiderATO said:


> Orioles, A's, Braves, Reds, Nationals, all in the playoffs, and all in the lower 50% of payroll (and all with less that 1/2 of the top 3 $$$$ teams). Half the playoff teams are in the lower half, and all the playoff teams are fairly equally spread throughout the payroll spread. *Looks to me like payroll has less to do with success in MLB than any other sport*.
> 
> 
> What you're talking about isn't the parity I was talking about. You're talking about the effects of a salary cap.* MLB doesn't have a salary cap, yet attains the most parity (in performance) of any american professional sports league*.



Here is a thought, spend a little time on Google looking up information before you throw out a casual thought as fact. There will always be those years in MLB where a team with a massive payroll (Red Sox) fails to perform and teams with little payroll (A's with 16 players making the league minimum) out perform expectations. However, when you look that the winners and losers over the last 20+ years, the teams with the higher payroll win dramatically more games than the teams with a smaller payroll. Of the last 21 World Series, the big spending teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Braves, Giants, Cardinals and Phillies have been in 19 of them. The low salary teams, A's, Royals, Padres, Rays, Pirates have been in 1. In baseball, more than any other sport, money means everything.


----------



## joezierer

Welkin said:


> I don't hate the Rays and I am not an Expos fan. I am a long suffering Jays fan. I was only pointing out that if the Rays don't work out in Tampa, there might be some people in Montreal that would like another shot. I my point was that it does not make a lot of sense to spend $750 million on a new stadium in Tampa to attract the team from St. Pete when the team is really not all that popular to begin with. They have already tried this in Miami and the results have been less than outstanding. The Marlins had the lowest first year attendance of any new stadium built in the last 11 years. Why would Tampa expect anything better.


Okay but you keep saying that the Rays should move to Montreal which is terrible. The Expos played games in Puerto Rico that's how bad their attendence in Montreal was. If you really want to move the Marlins and the Rays you need to put them in new cities. I'd agree with you on the Marlins having horrible attendence but I don't think you get how awful the Trop is. It is easily the worst stadium in MLB and if I was a Rays fan I would never go to their games.


----------



## Welkin

joezierer said:


> Okay but you keep saying that the Rays should move to Montreal which is terrible. The Expos played games in Puerto Rico that's how bad their attendence in Montreal was. If you really want to move the Marlins and the Rays you need to put them in new cities. I'd agree with you on the Marlins having horrible attendence but I don't think you get how awful the Trop is. It is easily the worst stadium in MLB and if I was a Rays fan I would never go to their games.


Actually I never said the Rays should move to Montreal. I stated that Montreal was interested in the Rays. I really don't know if Montreal could support a MLB team again. I know during the 80's it was not uncommon for them to draw over 2.3 million per year, but during most of the 90's, they drew as bad as the Rays do now. Personally I don't know what will happen to the Rays. They have lousy attendance at the Trop, but I don't see enough fan interest to justify spending $750 million on a new stadium in Tampa especially considering Tampa's current economic slump. Unfortunately, if they moved to Portland, Charlotte or Montreal they would still struggle to draw more than 25,000 fans a night and would be just another small market, low revenue club getting crushed by the big boys every year. Anyway, good discussion but we have gotten way off topic and I apologize for that.


----------



## ChesterCopperpot

Here's the design


----------



## RMB2007

> Legislation signed for new arena
> 
> SEATTLE -- King County Executive Dow Constantine and Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn signed legislation Tuesday on the funding plan for construction of an arena that could be used to lure the NBA back to Seattle.
> 
> The executives signed the deal a day after a negotiated memorandum of understanding between the city, county and investor Chris Hansen was approved by the city and county councils.
> 
> "The process is still not finished, but a major and critical milestone has been achieved," Constantine said.
> 
> The plan calls for a $490 million arena built in the area where Safeco Field and CenturyLink Field are located, with $200 million coming in public financing. The public investment would be paid back with rent money and admissions taxes from the arena, and if that money falls short, Hansen would be responsible for making up the rest. Other investors include Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer and two members of the Nordstrom department store family.


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8513391/legislation-signed-seattle-arena-deal


----------



## soup or man

Move the Kings to Seattle. Simple as that.


----------



## SVB28

Or a place that already has an amazing arena. KC


----------



## KingmanIII

^^ Word.


----------



## RMB2007

> St. Pete mayor rejects Rays' request to explore Hillsborough
> 
> St. Petersburg Mayor Bill Foster will not let the Tampa Bay Rays consider a new ballpark in Hillsborough County, insisting that the team look no farther than St. Petersburg or Pinellas’ Gateway area for a new home.
> 
> Foster made that clear Friday in a letter to Rays principal owner Stuart Sternberg. The mayor’s position was not unexpected, but it furthers the divide between the team’s desire to look beyond St. Petersburg and Foster’s desire to keep them within it.


http://www2.tbo.com/news/rays/2012/...jects-rays-request-to-explore-hill-ar-545516/


----------



## RMB2007

> *Knights release new renderings of uptown ballpark*
> 
> CHARLOTTE, N.C. – The Charlotte Knights released two photo renderings of their new stadium as construction continues in uptown Charlotte.
> 
> Crews began pouring concrete on the construction site last week after breaking ground on September 13.
> 
> The new ballpark will replace their current 22-year-old Fort Mill, South Carolina home and will be named BB&T Ballpark.
> 
> The Charlotte City Council the County Commission both voted to kick in $8 million each in subsidies so the team could secure financing for the facility, which will open in the spring of 2014.
> 
> The stadium for the Chicago White Sox’s Triple-A affiliate will seat 10,000 people. The team projects attendance to double to 600,000 fans annually with the new uptown ballpark.


http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/Knights-release-new-rendering-of-uptown-ballpark-180202521.html





Webcam link:

http://charlotteknightsatuptown.com/media-gallery/webcam


----------



## mrakbaseball

RMB2007 said:


> http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/Knights-release-new-rendering-of-uptown-ballpark-180202521.html


That's a nice view of the skyline but another ballpark outfitted with "traditional" green seats. Where's the variety?

Since 1990, 13 different MLB teams have won the World Series.During that time, 8 teams have won the NBA Finals.


----------



## adeaide

*Arlington (Dallas) Cowboys Stadium*


----------



## will101

mrakbaseball said:


> That's a nice view of the skyline but another ballpark outfitted with "traditional" green seats. Where's the variety?


Is the building in left field going to be a hotel? I couldn't find any reference to it at all. And if it is, they might want to talk to the folk in Toronto about that.


----------



## mrakbaseball

will101 said:


> Is the building in left field going to be a hotel? I couldn't find any reference to it at all. And if it is, they might want to talk to the folk in Toronto about that.


Well, any extra "entertainment" will probably just add to the minor league charm.


----------



## en1044

*Va Beach/Kings/Arena Details worked out
*
http://blogs.wavy.com/2012/11/27/va-beachkingsarena-details-worked-out/



> After months of negotiations it appears the details have been worked out to build an arena in Virginia Beach, and bring a major league sports team with it.
> 
> But the deal is far from being done.
> 
> A plan to build a $350 million arena on the Virginia Beach oceanfront, with an NBA team as its anchor tenant, moved forward tonight.


----------



## SJAnfield

en1044 said:


> Va Beach/Kings/Arena Details worked out
> 
> http://blogs.wavy.com/2012/11/27/va-beachkingsarena-details-worked-out/


Good luck to Virginia Beach. It's gonna be sad loosing the Kings, and many fans here will be very heartbroken, but loosing the stench of he Maloofs is a welcome move.


----------



## en1044

I thought the whole Virginia Beach idea had died until this. Now it looks more likely than before.

I'm going to doubt the move until it actually happens.


----------



## mrakbaseball

en1044 said:


> I thought the whole Virginia Beach idea had died until this. Now it looks more likely than before.
> 
> I'm going to doubt the move until it actually happens.


Seattle or Virginia Beach, who gets a NBA team first?


----------



## en1044

Should be Seattle, but no one ever said life was fair.


----------



## slipperydog

Awesome.


----------



## GunnerJacket

_'Merica!!!_


----------



## slipperydog

Regions Field in Birmingham, AL to open on Wednesday


----------



## Topher51

slipperydog said:


> Regions Field in Birmingham, AL to open on Wednesday


Wow, not bad for a AA park.


----------



## Darloeye

Its looking great.


----------



## JJG

bakeware5 said:


> They should tear down that old stadium and rebuild it properly, with luxury boxes, a roof, and some decent stands.
> __________________
> ★ First Chairman of the Friends of Shahbaz Sharif Society for the Advancement of Elevated Public Transportation ★
> 
> now presenting: ANTWERP


.... _what_ old stadium?


----------



## weava

bakeware5 said:


> They should tear down that old stadium and rebuild it properly, with luxury boxes, a roof, and some decent stands.
> __________________
> ★ First Chairman of the Friends of Shahbaz Sharif Society for the Advancement of Elevated Public Transportation ★
> 
> now presenting: ANTWERP


no idea what stadium you are talking about, but **** your roof suggestion. 'This is 'MERICA!


----------



## eMKay

bakeware5 said:


> They should tear down that old stadium and rebuild it properly, with luxury boxes, a roof, and some decent stands.
> __________________
> ★ First Chairman of the Friends of Shahbaz Sharif Society for the Advancement of Elevated Public Transportation ★
> 
> now presenting: ANTWERP


They should tear the roof off that crappy old stadium so the fans could get some warm sunshine for once in their life. If it rains? Wear a raincoat.


----------



## Lumbergo

he's a spambot, ignore him.


----------



## carnifex2005

Lumbergo said:


> he's a spambot, ignore him.


Heh. The bots are getting smarter. This time it fooled 3 people. Soon we'll be having coherent conversations with them.


----------



## carnifex2005

World's biggest ice skating arena to be built at the historic Kingsbridge Armory in the Bronx, New York.

Story here.


----------



## SVB28

The championship of the first College Football Playoff will be in Dallas apparently, announcement coming tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/McMurphyESPN/status/326879495460102144
Not sure what he is saying about the 3 semifinal stadiums though lol.

and the 6 semifinal sites that will rotate each year: Rose Bowl (LA), Chick-fil-a Bowl (ATL), Fiesta (ARI), Orange (MIA), Sugar (NO), and Cotton (DAL)
https://twitter.com/McMurphyESPN/status/326888209516724226


----------



## JJG

SVB28 said:


> The championship of the first College Football Playoff will be in Dallas apparently, announcement coming tomorrow.
> 
> https://twitter.com/McMurphyESPN/status/326879495460102144
> Not sure what he is saying about the 3 semifinal stadiums though lol.
> 
> and the 6 semifinal sites that will rotate each year: Rose Bowl (LA), Chick-fil-a Bowl (ATL), Fiesta (ARI), Orange (MIA), Sugar (NO), and Cotton (DAL)
> https://twitter.com/McMurphyESPN/status/326888209516724226


*Arlington. 

And how creative is the name for it, huh?


----------



## slipperydog

With WVU moving to the Big 12, their baseball program is getting a new stadium.


----------



## freddie80

*Nfl New York stadium*

Hello guys!
I'll be in New York next April 2014 for the first time. I'm planning my trip and I would like to watch an Nfl match, but I need some tips from you. Which is the nearest Nfl stadium to New York? I prefer to not walk away from New york city.
Furthermore, I would like to buy those kind of ticket that allows you to eat as much as you like at the stadium...how much it costs this kind of ticket generally? thank you so much!


----------



## carnifex2005

freddie80 said:


> Hello guys!
> I'll be in New York next April 2014 for the first time. I'm planning my trip and I would like to watch an Nfl match, but I need some tips from you. Which is the nearest Nfl stadium to New York? I prefer to not walk away from New york city.
> Furthermore, I would like to buy those kind of ticket that allows you to eat as much as you like at the stadium...how much it costs this kind of ticket generally? thank you so much!


Sorry, but there are no NFL games in April. The season starts in September and ends in late December. Have a fun time in New York though. New York is a great city and in April/May the weather is just starting to turn nice.


----------



## JJG

freddie80 said:


> Hello guys!
> I'll be in New York next April 2014 for the first time. I'm planning my trip and I would like to watch an Nfl match, but I need some tips from you. Which is the nearest Nfl stadium to New York? I prefer to not walk away from New york city.
> Furthermore, I would like to buy those kind of ticket that allows you to eat as much as you like at the stadium...how much it costs this kind of ticket generally? thank you so much!


Yeah, no NFL in April. 

But you could probably catch a Yankees game or Knicks/Nets game if ya wanted.


----------



## isaidso

NHL would still be going as well. You'd have a pick of either Rangers, Devils, or Islanders.


----------



## freddie80

JJG said:


> Yeah, no NFL in April.
> 
> But you could probably catch a Yankees game or Knicks/Nets game if ya wanted.


Thank you so much for your answers guys! how can I catch a yankees game if the nfl season is over? do you mean a friendly match?


----------



## Ionut_Lupu

New York Yankees is a baseball team (MLB) and NFL teams don't play friendly matches.


----------



## Topher51

Ionut_Lupu said:


> New York Yankees is a baseball team (MLB) and NFL teams don't play friendly matches.


The comarable to a friendly match for American sports would be preseason exhibitions, but they aren't as remotely as interesting as a soccer friendly.


----------



## Union Man

Hey just wondering about the views of Americans and Canadians on this thread, regarding the NFL games being played in London? Is it a good thing for the NFL and North American sport as a whole? Jaguars vs 49ers at Wembley today.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Union Man said:


> Hey just wondering about the views of Americans and Canadians on this thread, regarding the NFL games being played in London? Is it a good thing for the NFL and North American sport as a whole? Jaguars vs 49ers at Wembley today.


"They're playing in London today?... Well isn't that cute..."

I imagine its about as interesting to us as when Liverpool or AC Milan play a US tour for Europeans. It certainly helps the profile of the team outside of the US, but kindof a big... meh... to US fans.


----------



## Calvin W

Union Man said:


> Hey just wondering about the views of Americans and Canadians on this thread, regarding the NFL games being played in London? Is it a good thing for the NFL and North American sport as a whole? Jaguars vs 49ers at Wembley today.


Well for a lot of Canadians CFL is way more important than NFL. So where the game is played doesn't really matter.


----------



## will101

Union Man said:


> Hey just wondering about the views of Americans and Canadians on this thread, regarding the NFL games being played in London? Is it a good thing for the NFL and North American sport as a whole? Jaguars vs 49ers at Wembley today.


I have no idea if it is good for the league as a whole, but it was fun this morning to see the Niners beat the living snot out of Jacksonville in an "exotic locale".


----------



## Union Man

Why are they doing it for? As in they use to play non season promotion games, what's the reason to play a season game abroad? Jaguars are playing a home game in London for the next few years now. There's talk of them adopting London as their home town, is this realistic? Sorry for all the questions, I'm just intrigued .


----------



## Scba

The NFL is focusing its international efforts on London in hopes of possibly moving a team there or adding an expansion team there. Controversial, but a poorly kept secret.


----------



## JJG

I'm starting to believe that Goodell wants to move the Jaguars to England. 

They're gonna be over there NEXT year, as well. How many times has this been with this team?


----------



## RMB2007

Interesting article on the BBC's site about all this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/american-football/24687966



Plenty of talk going round that Populous are designing a new stadium for Tottenham Hotspur F.C. (Spurs) that could also be home to a London NFL team, with the capacity for NFL matches being 65,000.


----------



## Guest

JJG said:


> I'm starting to believe that Goodell wants to move the Jaguars to England.
> 
> They're gonna be over there NEXT year, as well. How many times has this been with this team?


Jax makes too much sense. But I don't know how Khan's involvement with Fulham in London helps him get on board a Tottenham/NFL stadium share. 

Though I guess Goodell wouldn't really have to do much to convince Jax bail out. Jags are guaranteed to stay in Jax til 2017 or something right? After that though, they're primed for relocation.


----------



## SJAnfield

I personally think the answer regarding London and LA is expansion.


----------



## westsidebomber

RMB2007 said:


> Interesting article on the BBC's site about all this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/american-football/24687966 http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/580/7lie.jpg/ Plenty of talk going round that Populous are designing a new stadium for Tottenham Hotspur F.C. (Spurs) that could also be home to a London NFL team, with the capacity for NFL matches being 65,000.


The comments on that article are hilarious. Several of them are about how the sport is "too boring" and doesn't appeal to British sensibility and how it will never catch on...basically the exact same comments uninformed Americans make about soccer.


----------



## ChesterCopperpot

$69.5million High School stadium in Texas under consideration

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57610847/does-texas-need-a-$69.5m-high-school-football-stadium-voters-to-decide/


----------



## Otto Racecar

ChesterCopperpot said:


> $69.5million High School stadium in Texas under consideration
> 
> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57610847/does-texas-need-a-$69.5m-high-school-football-stadium-voters-to-decide/


Although it does seem like a lot of money for a hs stadium, it looks like this is meant for 7 large high schools to share in their school district which makes it slightly more understandable although you would think that money would get you more then a 14,000 capacity.


----------



## will101

ChesterCopperpot said:


> $69.5million High School stadium in Texas under consideration
> 
> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57610847/does-texas-need-a-$69.5m-high-school-football-stadium-voters-to-decide/


The bond will not happen.

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...adium-bond-issue-falls-4958900.php?cmpid=hpfc


----------



## JJG

will101 said:


> The bond will not happen.
> 
> http://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...adium-bond-issue-falls-4958900.php?cmpid=hpfc


I must admit, I'm a little shocked...


----------



## vitaming

> The Atlanta Braves will leave the city for Cobb County for the 2017 season, the team has said.
> 
> The Braves, who have played at Turner Field for 20 years, will be leaving downtown Atlanta for the first time since relocating the franchise from Milwuakee in 1966. The Braves' contract at Turner Field expires after the 2016 season and will not be renewed.
> 
> The Braves will move into a new stadium to be built near the intersection of I-75 and I-285, the team said on the Twitter account.


http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9...ving-turner-field-relocating-cobb-county-2017

RIP downtown Atlanta


----------



## en1044

Go home Atlanta, you're drunk.


----------



## GunnerJacket

vitaming said:


> http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9...ving-turner-field-relocating-cobb-county-2017
> 
> RIP downtown Atlanta


Obviously you don't know where Turner Field is located. If this happens in the long run it will have a net 0 affect on downtown. However it would, IMO, continue baseball's alienation of urban/black fans.

I'm not in favor of the move but much of the Braves issue stems from the stadium's location and lack of transit access. And since 70% of the Braves ticket base lies north of the city...

If anything I'm more amazed that they feel confident that one of the most fiscally conservative counties in the area would pony up $400M for this. I can't see this being popular with the Tea Party folk. But if it happens I'd love for it mean a rail spur into Cobb County.


----------



## matthemod

Barely 20 years old, madness!


----------



## JJG

The Allen school district fired several employees and staff members, yet found a way to pay for a $60 million stadium. 

The local media has been KILLING them and someone on _105.3 The Fan_ called it "instant karma"...


----------



## Bobby3

I didn't know they fired all those people. I'm sure they'll probably try to market the games at the old stadium next season as "heritage games" or something.


----------



## rantanamo

JJG said:


> The Allen school district fired several employees and staff members, yet found a way to pay for a $60 million stadium.
> 
> The local media has been KILLING them and someone on _105.3 The Fan_ called it "instant karma"...


is there a link about the firings? i thought the facilities were built through bonds and not school funding sources.


----------



## JJG

rantanamo said:


> is there a link about the firings? i thought the facilities were built through bonds and not school funding sources.


http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/allen/headlines/20110219-allen-isd-plans-budget-cuts-including-50-jobs.ece

http://www.protecttheclassroom.com/2011/03/allen-isd-still-spending-60m-on-football-palace/

http://www.businessinsider.com/bus-barn-allen-texas-2011-11


----------



## rantanamo

just as i figured, none of the articles talking about the differences in funding sources.


----------



## Otto Racecar

rantanamo said:


> just as i figured, none of the articles talking about the differences in funding sources.


It does look like the stadium was part of a 119 million dollar bond package that included money for a fine arts center as well as transportation upgrades.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/08/08/60-million-dollar-high-school-football-stadium-allen-texas


----------



## weava

construction cams have been added to the construction sites at the both stadiums under construction at Missouri State (football and soccer/track stadiums)

http://www.missouristatebears.com/facilities/construction.html


----------



## will101

weava said:


> construction cams have been added to the construction sites at the both stadiums under construction at Missouri State (football and soccer/track stadiums)


OK, I know nothing about Missouri State or Springfield, so I'm guessing that both cameras are facing north, the football stadium cam is atop the press box, and the track cam is atop Glass Hall. Right?


----------



## weava

will101 said:


> OK, I know nothing about Missouri State or Springfield, so I'm guessing that both cameras are facing north, the football stadium cam is atop the press box, and the track cam is atop Glass Hall. Right?


soccer stadium cam is on glass hall facing north (you can see JQH arena/some of downtown buildings in the background). the football stadium cam is facing east.


----------



## will101

*Apartments in the 'Outfield' — Minor-league team wants residences at ballpark*










From Yahoo!:


> One of the reasons fans love Wrigley Field is because it appears to have been dropped into an otherwise typical neighborhood on the North Side of Chicago. The rooftop apartments beyond the ivy-covered bleachers add character and charm to the ballpark setting. Chicago Cubs ownership should have purchased those properties along Waveland and Sheffield avenues long ago. Too bad for them.
> 
> The Lansing (Mich.) Lugnuts and the city that owns their ballpark want to take a page from Wrigley's book and construct perhaps 100 apartments literally inside of the stadium. By way of a $22 million project split down the middle with public and private funds, the Midwest League's Class A club for the Toronto Blue Jays and the city seek to expand and upgrade Cooley Law School Stadium in downtown Lansing, the state capital.
> 
> The plan, called the "Outfield," would be part of a bigger plan to upgrade parts of downtown as a whole. It's a similar concept to what Fort Wayne, Ind. has done with its pro team, the Tincaps, and the Harrison Apartments beyond the left field fence.


The rest of the article, with a slide show, is here: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-b...nts-add-residences-to-ballpark-193608092.html


----------



## Bobby3

That's a neat idea, similar to what Charlotte Motor Speedway did with the condos above turn one. I think an English soccer team (I want to say Leyton Orient) does something similar, not sure what the revenue stream has been like though.


----------



## will101

Bobby3 said:


> That's a neat idea, similar to what Charlotte Motor Speedway did with the condos above turn one. I think an English soccer team (I want to say Leyton Orient) does something similar, not sure what the revenue stream has been like though.


I checked out Leyton Orient here: http://www.footballgroundguide.com/leyton_orient/ but it doesn't seem the same. This is the first time that I've seen anything like this at a ballpark, but the article refers to a couple of other places that I will have to research.


----------



## carnifex2005

Funny response to the "leaked" Canada 2026 World Cup bid plans that was posted on Reddit 

Texas 2026 World Cup bid sites


----------



## weava

carnifex2005 said:


> Funny response to the "leaked" Canada 2026 World Cup bid plans that was posted on Reddit
> 
> Texas 2026 World Cup bid sites


that's kinda of interesting idea, Texas is similar in size to European countries that get to host, so why not have a Texas only bid, they have the stadiums(and better stadiums than Canada IMO). They could use the bid as an excuse to get high speed trains to connect all the cities.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Of course, then everyone would have to go to Texas.

Ew.

;-)


----------



## carnifex2005

Yeah, California and Florida fall short in the amount of stadiums needed for a World Cup to be only held in the state if they follow the Canadian model. The only place in the world that would be able to do it like Texas might be the London metro area.


----------



## SJAnfield

carnifex2005 said:


> Yeah, California and Florida fall short in the amount of stadiums needed for a World Cup to be only held in the state if they follow the Canadian model. The only place in the world that would be able to do it like Texas might be the London metro area.


As a proud native Californian, I would humbly disagree that Cali would fall too short. I think we have a solid core in place, and have several sites that would be able to step up relatively quickly. 

LA #1- Rose Bowl 
LA #2- The Coliseum 
Santa Clara/San Jose- Levi's Stadium 
San Diego- renovated Qualcomm or New Chargers Stadium 
Oakland- a renovated Coliseum or Memorial in Berkeley 
Fresno- Bulldog Stadium 
Palo Alto- Stanford Stadium 

Cities that would need major renovations but have solid base or in place or potential: 

San Francisco- renovated Candlestick, AT&T Park (not at all ideal, but would meet capacity requirements) or Kesar with expanded seating and upwards of 20,000 temporary seats. Palo Alto could also potentially represent SF market. Sacramento- Hughes and Hornet are already 20,000+, but would need massive temporary seating (Hornet would probably need a complete redo. Its fugly and already temporary, however, a complete renovation of Hornet is in our latest master plan, and discussions I've had with administrators and people in the know in the past have put it at around 30,000 or more). If Sac Republic got an MLS spot, new stadium could have temporary seating up to 40,000. Also Davis' Aggie Stadium is at 15,000, but was built with major expansion in mind 
Anaheim- Angels Stadium if it underwent significant renovation, but has capacity now Stockton- Stagg Stadium is at 30,000, and press box falling apart, but renovation could bring up to par (although it is Stockton. Biggest strike against it) 

Alright, maybe home state bias, but still, think Cali could pull it off


----------



## carnifex2005

Yeah for California, I only counted 8 since I would assume that baseball stadiums would not fly with FIFA. Of California stadiums that are built or under construction...

Rose Bowl - Los Angeles 90,000+
Memorial Coliseum - Los Angeles 90,000+
Qualcomm - San Diego 70,000+
Levi's Stadium - Santa Clara 70,000+
O.co Coliseum - Oakland 60,000+
California Memorial Coliseum - Berkeley 60,000+
Stanford Stadium - Stanford 50,000+
Bulldog Stadium - Fresno 40,000+

That would leave a shortfall of 2 or 3 stadiums. Of course, this is assuming that Farmer's Field never gets built and Candlestick gets demolished in the next year or two. That being said, California could probably jury rig something like Canada would have to do for a World Cup.


----------



## irving1903

weava said:


> that's kinda of interesting idea, Texas is similar in size to European countries that get to host, so why not have a Texas only bid, they have the stadiums(and better stadiums than Canada IMO). They could use the bid as an excuse to get high speed trains to connect all the cities.


If Qatar could do it why not Texas. Throw in Denton's new Apogee Stadium and SMU's Ford Stadium, it could work. 


Apogee stadium aerials, Opening Night, UNT by Jonny Donut Carroll, on Flickr



SMU 2 by [email protected], on Flickr


----------



## will101

carnifex2005 said:


> Yeah for California, I only counted 8 since I would assume that baseball stadiums would not fly with FIFA. Of California stadiums that are built or under construction...
> 
> Rose Bowl - Los Angeles 90,000+
> Memorial Coliseum - Los Angeles 90,000+
> Qualcomm - San Diego 70,000+
> Levi's Stadium - Santa Clara 70,000+
> O.co Coliseum - Oakland 60,000+
> California Memorial Coliseum - Berkeley 60,000+
> Stanford Stadium - Stanford 50,000+
> Bulldog Stadium - Fresno 40,000+
> 
> That would leave a shortfall of 2 or 3 stadiums. Of course, this is assuming that Farmer's Field never gets built and Candlestick gets demolished in the next year or two. That being said, California could probably jury rig something like Canada would have to do for a World Cup.


What's the minimum threshold for the cup? Spartan Stadium in SJ holds more than 31k. Both Kezar Stadium and Balboa Stadium were rebuilt with room for temporary seating, and both could be brought above 30k without too much trouble. For that matter we could do something similar with Hughes Stadium in Sacramento.


----------



## will101

GunnerJacket said:


> Of course, then everyone would have to go to Texas.
> 
> Ew.
> 
> ;-)


:lol:


----------



## carnifex2005

Minimum capacity for a World Cup venue is 40k.


----------



## will101

carnifex2005 said:


> Minimum capacity for a World Cup venue is 40k.


Thanks. Assuming that baseball stadiums are out of the loop (this will be during the season) then at least two stadiums will have to have temporary seating to put them above 40k.

Then we would have another problem: getting *five* MLB teams out of the state for as long as possible. Plus the AAA teams in Fresno and Sacramento. For most of the teams, this is just a matter of convenience (and trying to get maximum attendance), but the A's (assuming they haven't moved yet) would need to go on a long trip, similar to the time the RNC had their convention in the Astrodome in 1992. I have no doubt that FIFA would have kittens at the prospect of playing Cup matches on infield dirt.


----------



## will101

Here's a thought: make it a joint bid with Nevada. Sam Boyd Stadium in Las Vegas and Mackay Stadium in Reno are both over 30k, both have the capability for temporary seating to at least 50k, and both are less than 30 miles from the California border. Nevada would turn cartwheels at the prospect of sharing this.


----------



## skaP187

carnifex2005 said:


> Minimum capacity for a World Cup venue is 40k.


45k bruto, netto 40k, or something like that.
Keep 45k to be on the safe side.


----------



## weava

new structure is starting to go up at Missouri State, Plaster Field


----------



## Guest

will101 said:


> Thanks. Assuming that baseball stadiums are out of the loop (this will be during the season) then at least two stadiums will have to have temporary seating to put them above 40k.
> 
> Then we would have another problem: getting *five* MLB teams out of the state for as long as possible. Plus the AAA teams in Fresno and Sacramento. For most of the teams, this is just a matter of convenience (and trying to get maximum attendance), but the A's (assuming they haven't moved yet) would need to go on a long trip, similar to the time the RNC had their convention in the Astrodome in 1992. I have no doubt that FIFA would have kittens at the prospect of playing Cup matches on infield dirt.


You're probably overanalyzing something that's nothing but a hypothetical what-if scenario.


----------



## will101

5portsF4n said:


> You're probably overanalyzing something that's nothing but a hypothetical what-if scenario.


You realize, of course, that we live in a world where Qatar will host the Cup in 2022. If they can bribe their way into hosting a Cup, so can we.


----------



## Guest

will101 said:


> You realize, of course, that we live in a world where Qatar will host the Cup in 2022. If they can bribe their way into hosting a Cup, so can we.


I assumed you were indulging in a bit of fun trying to come up with a scenario where Texas could hold a WC on its own. I didn't for one second think you were serious about the possibility, in which case I'm not sure what to say other than wishing you good luck with that. 

But hey, a Texan World Cup would suggest that the secessionists have realized their dream of having their Tejas to themselves, so maybe we can all hope and pray.


----------



## GunnerJacket

will101 said:


> You realize, of course, that we live in a world where Qatar will host the Cup in 2022. If they can bribe their way into hosting a Cup, so can we.


You'd have to bribe US Soccer, first, as that organization would dictate the logistics of any bid, which must be considered national.


----------



## Lumbergo

5portsF4n said:


> I assumed you were indulging in a bit of fun trying to come up with a scenario where Texas could hold a WC on its own. I didn't for one second think you were serious about the possibility, in which case I'm not sure what to say other than wishing you good luck with that.
> 
> But hey, a Texan World Cup would suggest that the secessionists have realized their dream of having their Tejas to themselves, so maybe we can all hope and pray.


the funny/interesting point of this is that Texas is one of the few states that could actually survive on it's own economically speaking...it's got the same GDP of many well-off European countries. now militarily speaking they might have some issues if Mexico ever decided it wants it's old territory back....


----------



## slipperydog

new ballparks in El Paso and Charlotte open in eight days...here is what they currently look like

http://home.elpasotexas.gov/stadium-cam/

http://charlotteknightsatuptown.com/media-gallery/webcam


----------



## Bori427

How big are those parks?


----------



## Guest

To the naked eye it looks between 2-5,000.


----------



## Calvin W

Bori427 said:


> How big are those parks?


Charlotte has a capacity of 10,000 listed and El Paso is listed at 9,500.

Both include outfield setting as well as grandstand.


----------



## Bobby3

Yeah, Charlotte's is 10,000. It's a cool little stadium, has a great view of Uptown. They've been desperate to move back into Charlotte for a long time, it's great to see their hard work and patience finally pay off.

We'll probably be bidding for a bunch of college tournaments now.


----------



## slipperydog

Opening night in Charlotte


----------



## Bori427

Looks more like a 15k seater...


----------



## will101

*Austin Peay State's football stadium has a sinkhole problem*

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/sinkhole-opens-austin-peay-stadium-tennessee-23790421


----------



## will101

*$60 million Allen HS stadium closing for fall*

From espn.com:


> Big doesn't necessarily mean better in Texas.
> 
> The $60 million football stadium at Allen High School that opened in 2012 will be closed for games this fall due to concrete cracking in the structure.
> 
> With Eagle Stadium closed this fall, Allen will play three "home" games in nearby Plano, paying that school district $5,300 for each one.
> 
> The Dallas Morning News reported Tuesday that design flaws at the stadium's concourse level contributed to the cracking, with some support structures not made in a way that would sustain the weight anticipated on that level of 18,000-seat Eagle Stadium.
> 
> The discoveries were made during an analysis of the facility commissioned by the school district after the cracking became apparent in February, according to documents obtained by the Morning News. About 70 percent of the analysis has been complete; a full report is due next month.
> 
> "The stadium is not safe for public assembly," superintendent Lance Hindt told the newspaper.


The rest of the story and a video can be found here.


----------



## weava

Plaster Stadium, Springfield MO (Last Season vs This week)


----------



## IllumL8ker

http://www.wellsvilledaily.com/article/20140522/Sports/140529861

Bills officially for sale!


----------



## will101

IllumL8ker said:


> http://www.wellsvilledaily.com/article/20140522/Sports/140529861
> 
> Bills officially for sale!


I'd still love to see a fan group buy the team. But even if you get the bylaws exception past the NFL owners, the logistics are mind-boggling. To raise a billion dollars, you would need _one million_ members paying $1,000 each. Or, if you lower the share price to $100, the membership has to go up to ten million.

Let's just hope that they sell to somebody other than Trump.


----------



## IllumL8ker

Update on the Buffalo Bills:

The goal is to identify a candidate by the end of July, and have the sale approved by NFL owners at the league’s meetings in October.


----------



## JJG

IllumL8ker said:


> Update on the Buffalo Bills:
> 
> The goal is to identify a candidate by the end of July, and have the sale approved by NFL owners at the league’s meetings in October.


You know, there's already an entire thread for the Bills and their stadium.


----------



## IllumL8ker

JJG said:


> You know, there's already an entire thread for the Bills and their stadium.


These are major Developments though!!


----------



## weava

updates from the Missouri State Univ. football and soccer/track stadium construction


----------



## mrakbaseball

New scoreboard at the Sullivan Arena.










and the scoreboard it replaced.


----------



## mrakbaseball

mrakbaseball said:


> New scoreboard at the Sullivan Arena.


The scoreboard isn't "new", it was previously installed at the Cow Palace in Daly City.


----------



## will101

mrakbaseball said:


> The scoreboard isn't "new", it was previously installed at the Cow Palace in Daly City.


That's the "Colliseo Cube", custom built in 2012 for the minor league San Francisco Bulls hockey team. The Cow Palace roof wasn't designed to hold a big scoreboard when built in in 1939-41, so the Cube weighed something like half the amount that comparable scoreboards weigh.

When the Bulls folded last January, the team and the Cow Palace apparently cut a deal to sell it to Anchorage. The Wikipedia article on the team is here, and a video from 2012 about the new scoreboard and the upgrades to the Cow Palace is here.


----------



## will101

*As 49ers enter new home, California's other stadium issues still unsettled*

From Sports Illustrated:


> by Tim Newcomb
> Posted: Thu Aug. 7, 2014
> 
> The NFL has more stadium issues in California than teams. And don’t expect that to change anytime soon.
> 
> While the San Francisco 49ers have pulled off their move to Santa Clara and 68,500-seat, $1.2 billion Levi’s Stadium, the Oakland Raiders face a murky future at O.co Coliseum, the San Diego Chargers harbor hopes of building a new stadium next to the Padres’ Petco Park and just about every developer with any tie to sports has an idea for a new NFL stadium in or near Los Angeles.
> 
> Oakland
> 
> The Raiders play in the only remaining NFL stadium that is shared with a MLB team. Opened in 1966, O.co Coliseum has gained recent renown for its sewage issues and bland concrete design in a league adding cutting-edge buildings every year. The Raiders want something new, but so do the Oakland A’s. There isn’t room for them both to build new single-sport stadiums on the same site, to say nothing of the money.
> 
> While the A’s were busy finalizing a fresh 10-year lease starting in 2015 that keeps baseball in O.co, the Raiders were floating ideas of tearing down O.co in 2015 to make way for Coliseum City, a planned mixed-use development to would contain a new football-only stadium.
> 
> But with no developer on tap -- the last one pulled out earlier this year -- and a dearth of funding, Coliseum City doesn’t have much life.
> 
> ​​​The new A’s lease does have some Raider-friendly loopholes, such as a clause that lets either party vacate the lease with a two-year notice (if the A’s leave, they still have to pay rent for the rest of the way). But with the city of Oakland unwilling to put up funds on a new stadium -- they still owe about $180 million on O.co -- it remains up to the Raiders to figure out a financing plan if they want to stay in Oakland.
> 
> The Raiders have long considered moving to Santa Clara -- it isn’t San Francisco, which may make it easier to swallow from a PR perspective​. Levi’s Stadium architect Tim Cahill of HNTB Corporation tells SI.com the 49ers' new building was originally designed with two home locker rooms. The idea of sharing a home field was abandoned early on, but the space was still hard-wired in and now serves as storage for the 49ers.
> 
> But sharing a venue in Santa Clara would prove much more difficult than it does in New Jersey, where MetLife Stadium was designed and built with the knowledge that the Jets and Giants would share the facility. Levi’s Stadium has no such luxury.
> 
> The entire stadium is branded solely for the 49ers. The building itself features white steel and red accents in everything from seats to concession buildings. Remember, Levi’s Stadium sits closer than 40 feet from the 49ers’ headquarters and practice fields. The more than 500 pieces of art are 49ers-related, and the stadium holds a giant team store -- obviously those details could be changed. A brand-new 49ers museum takes up street-level space, and owner Jed York has his custom-designed suite built in. Levi’s Stadium fits the 49ers. The addition of the Raiders would feel like just that: an addition.
> ​
> Los Angeles
> 
> The NFL loves Los Angeles, but without a stadium the notion of a team relocating to the area is merely fantasy. New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft's signaled the NFL's willingness to get creative in July when he floated the concept of the league building a new stadium, which would be at least a $1 billion project.
> 
> ​An NFL-owned stadium could prove critical to any relocation bid, which would surely include a hefty fee to help pay back the stadium costs. The league may also be enticed by the possibility of hosting events such as the Pro Bowl close to NFL Network's suburban headquarters in Culver City.
> 
> In return, the NFL would need to sweeten the pot for the local team by freeing up local revenue streams in the form of sponsorships or seat licenses.
> 
> San Diego
> 
> Don’t forget about the Chargers. While San Diego is often thrown into the Los Angeles relocation discussion, the team and new city leaders will engage in talks on how to replace Qualcomm Stadium, which was built in 1967, with a new 70,000-seat venue east of Petco Park in downtown San Diego.
> 
> In order to pull together funding, the city could sell and/or develop the 166 acres that now houses Qualcomm and could also ask for a hefty contribution from the Spanos family, which owns the Chargers.
> 
> While the 49ers were able to successfully replace Candlestick Park, Oakland, San Diego and Los Angeles have 1960s-era stadium realities bumping against their dreams. Stadium sites aren’t hard to find -- it's finding the money that’s the rub.
> 
> Tim Newcomb covers stadiums, design and gear for Sports Illustrated. Follow him on Twitter at @tdnewcomb.


The article and some pictures are here.


----------



## RMB2007

> MIAMI (CBSMiami) – For the first time in 20 years, the hurricane-damaged seats at the Miami Marine Stadium could be filled with spectators, as the Miami Marine Stadium enters into a tentative deal to host the Miami International Boat Show for at least 2016 and 2017.


http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/11/12/miami-intl-boat-show-moving-to-marine-stadium/

As it is now:

http://www.marinestadium.org/photo?type=87


----------



## Lumbergo

RMB2007 said:


> http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/11/12/miami-intl-boat-show-moving-to-marine-stadium/
> 
> As it is now:
> 
> http://www.marinestadium.org/photo?type=87


there is actually a thread dedicated to the Miami Marine Stadium here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=609927

the stadium had been left to disrepair for years but thanks to a renewed effort to preserve the historic stadium and it's unique architecture it seems that it may have a future after all. :banana:

a nice shot showing the setting of the stadium:



QuantumX said:


> DSC_1365 by QuantumX, on Flickr


----------



## slipperydog

Norfolk Admirals, AHL affiliate of the Anaheim Ducks, are being sold and relocated to San Diego, CA

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/jan/07/anaheim-ducks-ahl-norfolk-admirals-san-diego/


----------



## slipperydog

Columbia, SC breaking ground on new 8,000 seat minor league baseball stadium today

http://ballparkdigest.com/2015/01/08/ballpark-preview-spirit-communications-park/


----------



## Bobby3

Columbia will have two new baseball stadiums of basically the same size.


----------



## slavoski

nice one


----------



## weava

Bobby3 said:


> Columbia will have two new baseball stadiums of basically the same size.


Minor league baseball seems to do well in NC. I was just thinking about it and realized NC is the largest state without a MLB team. I wonder how well a MLB team in Charlotte would do.


----------



## Bobby3

weava said:


> Minor league baseball seems to do well in NC. I was just thinking about it and realized NC is the largest state without a MLB team. I wonder how well a MLB team in Charlotte would do.


Would probably do better in the Triangle. Charlotte's a lot bigger but it's stretched pretty thin with what it has now.


----------



## KingmanIII

slipperydog said:


> Columbia, SC breaking ground on new 8,000 seat minor league baseball stadium today
> 
> http://ballparkdigest.com/2015/01/08/ballpark-preview-spirit-communications-park/












































I dunno if I like this plan, either. I understand that it's supposed to be a part of a major downtown redevelopment, but farm teams can be fickle. I would've either built a smaller park for an indy league team, or I would've moved in with USC, and filled the space with something else.


----------



## KingmanIII

Bobby3 said:


> Would probably do better in the Triangle. Charlotte's a lot bigger but it's stretched pretty thin with what it has now.


The Triangle already has the Bulls, the Mudcats, and UNC baseball.


----------



## omahajayscu

*OMAHA | UNO Community Arena (7500)*

University of Nebraska-Omaha is well underway with construction of their new arena adjacent to Aksarben Village (large mixed use, urban redevelopment on the site of the former Aksarben Racetrack). Although, the arena is designed specifically with Men's Hockey (NCAA Div 1 NCHC) in mind, it will also be home to Men and Women's basketball and Women's Volleyball. (NCAA Div 1 Summit League). The project is on schedule to be completed in time for the 2015-16 athletic season.

The arena will uniquely have a second sheet of ice that will be open to the public. 

*Stats:*
Capacity: 7500
Cost: $81.6 million
Size: 205,000 sf
Sheets of ice: 2

*Site Plan:*
Aksarben Village to the North (left)









*Renderings:*

































*Construction Photos:*

































*Additional Information:*
http://www.unomaha.edu/athletics/arena.php
http://www.unomaha.edu/athletics/arena.php


----------



## KingmanIII

_Another_ Omaha arena? Wonderful.


----------



## KingmanIII

Oh, and min. 10k capacity. Sorry.


----------



## SJAnfield

At first I thought it was sponsored by the card game uno.


----------



## RMB2007

*Jane Sanders Stadium*



















https://twitter.com/kmacj3311



> Oregon softball's new home for the 2016 season, Jane Sanders Stadium.
> 
> The 1,500-seat stadium will be built at the current site of Howe Field. There will be space to add temporary outfield bleachers for postseason games.
> 
> Financing for the new stadium was spurred on by a $10 million gift from Robert Sanders in honor of his late wife.


www.goducks.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=500&SPID=245&SPSID=4377&KEY=


----------



## weava

well, so far no High School has a stadium large enough for it's own thread but Texas may get there soon...



> Voters in McKinney, Tex., have given the go-ahead to spend nearly $63 million on building a high school football stadium after months of contentious debate in the suburb north of Dallas.
> 
> The 12,000-seat facility and an attached events center would be just the latest in a growing list of supersized high school stadiums in Texas.
> 
> The McKinney project has frequently been compared to the $60 million high school stadium in nearby Allen. With seats for 18,000 people, the Allen stadium has nearly the same capacity as Madison Square Garden. Another school stadium under construction in Katy, outside Houston, will have 12,000 seats at a projected cost of more than $62 million.












http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/12/sports/high-school-football-stadium-texas-63-million.html


----------



## Edgar Vix

*Attendance: 156,990*








_Foto: Reuters_
http://globoesporte.globo.com/futeb...-levam-mais-de-150-mil-jogo-em-autodromo.html


----------



## RMB2007

> In February we announced that Walt Disney World Resort plans to build a new sports venue at ESPN Wide World of Sports Complex. Today, we’re excited to give you a first look at the design of the new state-of-the-art venue.
> 
> The new indoor sports venue, which will be adjacent to the Jostens Center, will feature a flexible design that can morph from one large competition space capable of seating more than 8,000 fans to as many as four separate competition areas. It will be so flexible that it can be configured to host a variety of other sports, such as basketball and volleyball, as well as concerts.
> 
> It will be the only venue of its size in America that is specifically designed with cheerleading and dance competitions in mind, offering special warm up and practice areas as well as spaces for judges and officials.
> 
> The facility, expected to be complete within the next 18 months, will perfectly complement the growing number of prestigious cheerleading and dance events at Disney. Currently, the sports complex plays host to nine cheerleading and dance competitions, such as the National High School Cheerleading Championships in February.


https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/b...x-to-become-new-epicenter-of-cheer-and-dance/










https://twitter.com/cheerUPDATES


----------



## Chevy114

Interesting, I thought the 2 arenas they already had were enough, but guess not


----------



## Saiholmes

> Rams to break ground on $2.6 billion Inglewood stadium Thursday
> 
> The Los Angeles Rams will break ground on their $2.6 billion stadium in Inglewood, California, during a ceremony at 11 a.m. PT Thursday.
> 
> NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, Rams owner Stan Kroenke and Inglewood mayor James Butts will all be in attendance.
> 
> The 70,000-seat stadium and an adjacent, 6,000-seat performance venue will be the centerpiece of a 298-acre, mixed-use development on the site of the old Hollywood Park racetrack, set to be completed for the 2019 season. The Rams are playing at Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum in the meantime.
> 
> The ceremony will mark the start of digging for a 100-foot-deep hole where the stadium will reside. Ultimately the venue will also include a hotel, office space, retail and housing. It is scheduled to host the Super Bowl in 2021 and is in the running to host the 2024 Summer Olympics.


http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...s-break-ground-26b-stadium-inglewood-thursday
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-rams-stadium-construction-20161110-story.html


----------



## Saiholmes

> Los Angeles Rams break ground on $2.6-billion Inglewood stadium, 'new era' of NFL
> 
> With more than 100 invited guests in attendance — politicians, media, members of the Pro Football Hall of Fame and even NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell — Kroenke and others plunged shiny silver shovels into a pile of dirt and extolled the virtues of a privately financed stadium that’s expected to cost more than any other.
> 
> “This thing is going to be unbelievable,” Kroenke said. “I don’t think people really understand the scale of this.”
> 
> “For the first time, we have a true indoor/outdoor venue. … It’s totally unique in the world,” said Mark Williams, who heads the sports and entertainment division at stadium architect HKS.


http://www.latimes.com/sports/rams/la-sp-rams-ground-breaking-20161117-story.html

Los Angeles Rams' stadium to be world's most expensive.


----------



## Saiholmes

The most expensive stadium and the first true indoor/outdoor venue in the world



slipperydog said:


> Some updated renderings...


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=136657103


----------



## spot_skylines

Looks cool....


----------



## Saiholmes

> Welcome to the world, the Vegas Golden Knights.
> 
> At 6:17 p.m. Tuesday, a brand was born that will bring world-wide publicity to the city and an expansion hockey team which will represent Nevada as the state’s first major league professional sports franchise.
> 
> The Knights’ name was announced amid great fanfare at Toshiba Plaza as an estimated 5,000 people waited outside the team’s home, T-Mobile Arena, to listen to speeches from team majority owner Bill Foley, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and Clark County commissioner Steve Sisolak before the revealing of the nickname, colors and logo.


http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports...hl-team-officially-named-vegas-golden-knights


----------



## JJG

Saiholmes said:


> http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports...hl-team-officially-named-vegas-golden-knights


Aces... Scorpions... Gamblers... Mobsters... Rattlers... Cobras... White Tigers... Outlaws... Jackrabbits... Sidewinders... Jokers... Vultures


Could have went with any of those, but instead... "Golden Knights".


----------



## Saiholmes

JJG said:


> Aces... Scorpions... Gamblers... Mobsters... Rattlers... Cobras... White Tigers... Outlaws... Jackrabbits... Sidewinders... Jokers... Vultures
> Could have went with any of those, but instead... "Golden Knights".


It delivers high quality and an excellent feel. This is a great choice.









https://twitter.com/i/moments/801244831162990592


----------



## Jthurmo2

JJG said:


> Aces... Scorpions... Gamblers... Mobsters... Rattlers... Cobras... White Tigers... Outlaws... Jackrabbits... Sidewinders... Jokers... Vultures
> 
> 
> Could have went with any of those, but instead... "Golden Knights".



From my understanding they couldnt associate any name with gambling which is a bummer because THATS what we associate Vegas with. Aces would have been a COLD name though. Cobras as well.


----------



## soup or man

Las Vegas Knights. Simple. Effective.

Owell. A King will always outrank a Knight.


----------



## Calvin W

soup or man said:


> Las Vegas Knights. Simple. Effective.
> 
> Owell. A King will always outrank a Knight.


A throw back to the California Golden Seals perhaps....


----------



## slipperydog

soup or man said:


> Las Vegas Knights. Simple. Effective.
> 
> Owell. A King will always outrank a Knight.


Expecting a full-out invasion from the South when the Kings battle the Knights.


----------



## soup or man

slipperydog said:


> Expecting a full-out invasion from the South when the Kings battle the Knights.


That's going to be a rivalry for sure. Lots of LA transplants in Vegas.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Hard for me to argue with the name or the logo. Both appear about as good as they could have hoped, I feel. Might've left off the "Golden," myself, but I understand the connotation. Overall pretty solid. If I gotta see another franchise in the sunbelt then I guess this isn't bad.


----------



## will101

Saiholmes said:


> http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports...hl-team-officially-named-vegas-golden-knights


The "golden" part is a fumble, as Nevada's official nickname is "Silver State".


----------



## JJG

Jthurmo2 said:


> From my understanding they couldnt associate any name with gambling which is a bummer because THATS what we associate Vegas with. Aces would have been a COLD name though. Cobras as well.


I was told... which is stupid. 

If you're going to have a team in the gambling capital of the world, you may as well go for those names. 

"Aces" was pretty much what EVERYONE wanted from what I've seen.


----------



## Calvin W

Las Vegas "Silver Bullets" would have been cool.


----------



## Cjones2451

soup or man said:


> Las Vegas Knights. Simple. Effective.
> 
> Owell. A King will always outrank a Knight.


Apparently that was off the table because of the London Knights of the Ontario Hockey League junior team


----------



## Saiholmes

JJG said:


> I was told... which is stupid.
> If you're going to have a team in the gambling capital of the world, you may as well go for those names.
> "Aces" was pretty much what EVERYONE wanted from what I've seen.


I strongly prefer Golden Knights or Silver Knights over Aces. In fact it is crucial for us to feel more human.


----------



## Scba

At least it wasn't a Brandiose process


----------



## JJG

Saiholmes said:


> I strongly prefer Golden Knights or Silver Knights over Aces. *In fact it is crucial for us to feel more human*.


:? ...wha?


----------



## Saiholmes

JJG said:


> :? ...wha?


Disputing the name is a waste of time. This name exudes things I’m proud of and believe in. That's pretty much the way I like it. The people who matter to me are the ones who are building things I respect.


----------



## Chevy114

Miami Marine Stadium is getting renovated:

current:




















Renovation:


















http://miami.curbed.com/2016/11/22/13713948/miami-marine-stadium-renovation


----------



## Chevy114

So apprently the future of the Pawtucket Red Sox is in question. They have had ideas like other cities in the RI or even mass. This article says 9,000 letters have come in about moving the team to somewhere in mass:

http://deadspin.com/the-pawtucket-red-sox-have-gotten-9-000-postcards-tryin-1792274013


----------



## RMB2007

> Houston group bringing a rugby franchise, stadium to the city
> 
> The ownership group behind the new Major League Rugby franchise the Houston Strikers is finalizing plans to develop a plot of land adjacent to the Houston Sports Park along TX-288 and south of Mowery Road. Now they're sharing renderings of the $10 million rugby complex they're looking to construct.
> 
> The new stadium would initially have room enough in bleachers for up to 5,000 fans, with plans for expansion to accommodate much more than that.


www.chron.com/sports/article/Housto...ild-a-stadium-11019505.php?platform=hootsuite


----------



## Chevy114

RMB2007 said:


> www.chron.com/sports/article/Housto...ild-a-stadium-11019505.php?platform=hootsuite


I'm intrigued, I wonder if Rugby could work in America if it was given the proper stadiums?


----------



## will101

Chevy114 said:


> I'm intrigued, I wonder if Rugby could work in America if it was given the proper stadiums?


I doubt it. Stanford has a strong rugby tradition, and they are lucky if they get more than 200 people to watch their big games.


----------



## Calvin W

will101 said:


> I doubt it. Stanford has a strong rugby tradition, and they are lucky if they get more than 200 people to watch their big games.


Think back, not long ago soccer was an unkown in the USA. Rugby will find a niche and do well.


----------



## will101

Calvin W said:


> Think back, not long ago soccer was an unkown in the USA. Rugby will find a niche and do well.


"... not long ago ..."?? I attended games of the NASL Quakes in the mid 70s that drew over 20k.

/sarcasm deleted/


----------



## Calvin W

will101 said:


> "... not long ago ..."?? I attended games of the NASL Quakes in the mid 70s that drew over 20k.
> 
> /sarcasm deleted/


Compared to Football, Baseball etc. That's not that long ago.


----------



## Scba

Does the benefit of having a rugby-only space outweigh the cost of building one, when there's no shortage of stadiums in Texas?


----------



## will101

Calvin W said:


> Compared to Football, Baseball etc. That's not that long ago.


That was more than forty years ago. If you assume that rugby is on a growth curve, and a good team at a popular college draws less than 200 per game now, I would say that it could easily be 30 years before we have professional rugby teams reaching 20,000 for top matches. Add to that the 40 year period between the initial popularity of soccer in the US, to the point where they are all getting soccer specific stadiums now, you are looking at somewhere close to the end of the century before rugby is getting their own stadiums in the US.


----------



## will101

Scba said:


> Does the benefit of having a rugby-only space outweigh the cost of building one, when there's no shortage of stadiums in Texas?


Right now, rugby would have trouble justifying the expense of just an exclusive field plus fencing. This does not include parking, bathrooms, lights, seating, locker rooms, public address systems, and so forth.


----------



## Bobby3

Scba said:


> Does the benefit of having a rugby-only space outweigh the cost of building one, when there's no shortage of stadiums in Texas?


Charlotte has a small rugby-only stadium, the team recently paid the mortgage off and its been very beneficial to them to not have to rent from someone else and get crappy dates.


----------



## WesTexas

Saiholmes said:


> The most expensive stadium and the first true indoor/outdoor venue in the world
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=136657103


Have you not seen The Seattle Mariners Stadium? Its pretty much an open air stadium with a roof.


----------



## jblaze15

*Twin Cities Stadiums*

Hi, heres a sweet vid I found of the stadiums in Minneapolis & St. Paul.

https://www.airvuz.com/video/Aerial-Vūz-of-Minnesotas-Stadiums?id=58f8d44b9ae514272b46deec


----------



## RMB2007

RMB2007 said:


> https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/b...x-to-become-new-epicenter-of-cheer-and-dance/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/cheerUPDATES












https://www.flickr.com/photos/cchard/


----------



## RMB2007

> Progress marches on at ESPN Wide World of Sports as the new 'cheerleading' arena continues to progress!


https://twitter.com/cheerUPDATES


----------



## Chevy114

Glad they did this. I haven't been to Orlando where there wasn't a weekend where the complex was packed with at least 1 sport if not more for the entire weekend


----------



## RMB2007

> More details have emerged about a massive off-Strip music venue that will break ground next year if all goes according to plan.
> 
> Plans recently filed with Clark County show that the development, a partnership of casino operator Las Vegas Sands Corp. and sports and entertainment firm Madison Square Garden Co., would cover 593,750 square feet.
> 
> *The concert arena would have a capacity of 18,500 and is forecast to hold 40 to 50 events, *according to a document, which does not give a time frame for the events.
> 
> The plans also show that the developers aim to start construction in June and finish in July 2020.


https://www.reviewjournal.com/busin...ff-strip-music-venue-to-break-ground-in-2018/


----------



## RMB2007

> CHESAPEAKE BAYHAWKS OWNERSHIP ANNOUNCES NEW STADIUM PLANS
> 
> The Chesapeake Bayhawks hinted that the franchise was looking for a lacrosse-specific home in March of 2017. That’s when the Baltimore Business Journal reported the team’s ownership had proposed a $40 million stadium as part of a “bigger sports complex.”
> 
> The news had most excited for the future of the Bayhawks in a new stadium. It followed along the lines of the Ohio Machine, which opened the first lacrosse-specific MLL stadium this May.
> 
> *The Bayhawks made their plans official on Thursday, revealing alongside the Chesapeake Sports and Entertainment Group a “multi-sport field and performance complex” that included an amphitheater and 10,000-seat stadium — the new home of the Chesapeake MLL franchise.* The new stadium and complex will be located in Crownsville, Md., a town approximately 20 minutes from Navy-Marine Corps Stadium in Annapolis, where the Bayhawks have hosted home games since 2010.


https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/pro/mll/chesapeake-bayhawks-ownership-announces-new-stadium-plans


----------



## slipperydog

*Nike exec stakes claim to bring MLB team to Portland*

A Nike executive connected to a group seeking to bring a Major League Baseball team to Portland has formed a company to facilitate deal-making and to lobby local officials.

Craig Cheek, a vice president at the footwear giant overseeing training, baseball and football operations, acknowledged Monday that the company, Portland Diamond Project, is baseball-related but declined to comment further. John McIsaac, who said he has been retained as a spokesman for the would-be baseball management group, acknowledged Cheek's connection to group, which includes former Portland Trailblazers announcer Mike Barrett.

Portland Diamond Project was founded last July, according to its articles of organization. No owner or manager is listed. But Cheek's name appears on paperwork the company filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission showing it sought to raise $6 million and had already sold equity worth $500,000. Cheek is listed as Portland Diamond Project's executive officer and director, and records show the company is registered at the address of his riverfront home in Lake Oswego.

The company's website went online in July of last year, domain registration records show. The entire site is a landing page showing only a circular blue, black and white logo, with a styled capital "P" in the center.

Lobbyist registration records filed with the state ethics commission and the City of Portland show Cheek's company is being represented by high-power lobbying firm Oxley and Associates. Four days after Oxley was retained, Mayor Ted Wheeler met with its vice president, Evyan Andries, at downtown steak and seafood restaurant Jake's Grill. Andries didn't immediately return a request for comment. McIsaac, the company spokesman, said their lobbyists also met with Commissioner Nick Fish, who was unavailable for comment.

McIsaac said Portland Diamond Project is in the midst of land-related transactions, but declined to elaborate. He said the company will make a public announcement Wednesday about its plans.

"This project is a really big deal," McIsaac said.

Portland has long been on the short list for cities that could play host to an MLB team, should the league expand or a team's owners seek to relocate. It's not immediately clear where a ballpark would be located, and many stumbling blocks stand in the way, including land acquisition and construction costs, connections to public transit and parking, and politics.

-- Gordon R. Friedman

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2018/04/post_629.html


----------



## Chevy114

Welp Tampa needs to hurry up...


----------



## slipperydog

University of Oregon @uoregon
Combining elements of its historic past while looking to the future, the new Hayward Field will be the finest track and field facility in the world when it opens in 2020. 





































DETAILS: https://hayward.uoregon.edu/about


----------



## aquamaroon

:uh: mg:

Wow!! That is a HUGE upgrade from their previous plans. Good for Oregon!

Edit: From the website, here is an additional render of the new stadium in daylight:


----------



## will101

Just for some perspective, this is how the stadium, then called Kincaid Field, looked when the Oregon Webfoots played their home football games in the 1920s. Photo from fishduck.com.










And this is how it looks now, when they get a full house for the US Track and Field Championships.


----------



## CaliforniaJones

slipperydog said:


> University of Oregon @uoregon
> Combining elements of its historic past while looking to the future, the new Hayward Field will be the finest track and field facility in the world when it opens in 2020.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DETAILS: https://hayward.uoregon.edu/about


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> University of Oregon @uoregon
> Combining elements of its historic past while looking to the future, the new Hayward Field will be the finest track and field facility in the world when it opens in 2020.


Home of the Fighting Nikes!


----------



## prageethSL

Holly Cow!! This is 100X times better than the previous plan.

:applause::applause::applause::applause:


----------



## RMB2007

> U.S. Rep. Rodney Davis is on board with the Champaign-Urbana Mass Transit District's plan to expand its Illinois Terminal facility in downtown Champaign, a project that also could lead to a privately developed hotel, conference center and sports arena.
> 
> The private investment Davis was referencing is developer Hans Grotelueschen's proposal to build a hotel and conference center in downtown Champaign that includes a 5,000- to 6,000-seat arena, apartments and office space. Earlier this year, the UI declared it supports the downtown site for an arena for a proposed Division I hockey program at Illinois.


www.news-gazette.com/news/local/201...eral-funding-illinois-terminal-expansion.html


----------



## The Game Is Up

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2018/05/heres_what_a_major_league_base.html





















> Photographs of architectural renderings of a proposed Major League Baseball stadium obtained by The Oregonian/OregonLive show backers of the pro-ball effort envision their team playing in a sleek, open stadium near the Willamette River.
> 
> The renderings depict a circular stadium with open views to the southeast and roughly two-thirds surrounded by translucent walls. A circular, crowd-covering awning appears supported by cables descending from a towering lighted white spire outside the stadium’s northwest end, similar to the structure of the Tilikum Crossing bridge.
> 
> Drawings also show substantial greenways and trees and – surprising for ever-rainy Portland – apparently no roof or dome over the field or many of the seats. It’s unclear whether the proposed design includes a parking structure.


----------



## rantanamo

That's what you get for living in Fort Worth


----------



## RMB2007

> HISTORIC MOVE PAVES THE WAY FOR MAJOR LEAGUE RUGBY
> 
> The Houston SaberCats (Major League Rugby) & The City of Houston (Mayor Turner) will be breaking ground on a world class rugby and multi-sport complex within the existing Houston Sports Park facility south of downtown Houston. The SaberCats complex will include 3 fields and parking for over 1,100 vehicles. The highlight of the project is a main field which will have seating for over 3,000 people, concessions, lighting to accommodate night games and other attractions to enhance the fan experience.


https://www.aveva.com/en/Resources/...gn=Oktopost-Americas-NA-2018-HoustonSabercats


----------



## RMB2007

> PawSox Sign Letter of Intent to Build a Triple-A Ballpark in Worcester, Massachusetts
> 
> The Pawtucket Red Sox today signed a Letter of Intent to build an innovative downtown ballpark in Worcester, Massachusetts that would be scheduled to open in 2021. PawSox Chairman Larry Lucchino today signed the letter in a ceremony at Worcester's City Hall with Lieutenant Governor Karyn Polito, Mayor Joseph Petty, and City Manager Ed Augustus. The project is subject to the approval of the Worcester City Council, the International League, and the National Association of Professional Baseball Leagues ("Minor League Baseball").


https://www.milb.com/pawtucket/news...llpark-in-worcester-massachusetts/c-290731946



> Red Sox chairman Tom Werner confirmed the rumors Friday, saying that the Pawtucket Red Sox, or Paw Sox, will be moving to Worcester.
> 
> "We love the PawSox in Rhode Island, but I understand that Larry (Lucchino) felt that this was a good thing for his franchise, the Triple-A franchise, to move it to Worcester," Werner told reporters at a charitable event.
> 
> The construction of a new ballpark will cost up to $90 million and the development project will also include the creation of 250 apartments, 2 hotels, and space for restaurants or retail. It is expected to create 500 full-time jobs and 2,000 part-time jobs.
> 
> City of Worcester officials said the proposed self-supported development is expected to cost between $86-90 million. The Commomwealth of Massachusetts will commit $35 million over next 2 to 3 years.


https://www.wcvb.com/article/worcester-pawsox-move-become-woosox/22758218


----------



## RMB2007

> Savannah is moving ahead with its plans to construct a $140 million arena.
> 
> The Savannah City Council recently awarded AECOM Hunt an $11.2 million construction management contract for the planned facility.
> 
> The Savannah Morning News reports that AECOM will manage construction of the planned 269,000-square-foot arena.
> 
> It's expected to contain about 9,000 seats, 12 luxury suites and 450 club seats.
> 
> The construction manager is expected to work closely with the architectural team during the design and construction phases of the arena to bring the project in on schedule and within budget.
> 
> Construction of the arena is expected to begin next year and be completed in the summer of 2021.
> 
> In June, international design firm Perkins+Will was hired by the city to design the new arena. The Savannah City Council approved the $8.8 million design contract.


https://www.wjbf.com/news/georgia-news/savannah-moves-ahead-with-plans-to-build-new-arena/1452737793


----------



## RMB2007

RMB2007 said:


>





> Worcester City Councilors approved the borrowing of nearly $101 million to pay for the design, construction and land acquisition costs for the new home of the Pawtucket Red Sox and a host of other ordinances intended to expedite the project, which must be completed in time for the 2021 baseball season.
> 
> Now, the project must move quickly. Included in an agreement signed with the team, an owner's project manager must be chosen by Oct. 10 this year. Permitting, land acquisitions and other necessary steps must be done in time for construction to begin by July 1 next year.
> 
> The city plans to acquire the proposed ballpark parcel on mostly vacant land in the Canal District.
> 
> A lease agreement between the city and Triple-A minor league baseball team must be negotiated by Dec. 1.
> 
> Of the $101 million being borrowed by the city, the team will pick up $36 million in a combination of up-front cash and rent over a 30-year lease.
> 
> The ballpark itself is estimated to cost between $86 million and $90 million.


http://m.wbjournal.com/article/20180917/PRINTEDITION/309149999


----------



## weava

I can't find the old kemper arena thread so I'll post this here. 
https://cityscenekc.com/hy-vee-arena-opens-bringing-new-bounce-to-west-bottoms/

The remodel is complete with with the floor built between the upper and lower decks to create an over/under arena with many courts so it can host large tournaments. This has to be the best re-use of a large arena other than the prymid in Memphis. Nice to see these some of these old arenas getting new life instead of being demolished like what most cities have done. 

upper level









lower level


----------



## The Game Is Up

https://www.cardplayer.com/poker-ne...uld-be-demolished-to-make-way-for-mlb-stadium



> Rumors surrounding a potential sale of Caesars’ Rio casino-hotel located less than a mile from the Las Vegas Strip have existed for years, but a fresh one has surfaced this week.
> 
> According to the Las Vegas-based blog VitalVegas, there’s a “new rumor” that the casino that has hosted the annual World Series of Poker for more than a decade could be sold and then demolished to make way for an MLB team in Sin City.
> 
> Las Vegas already has an NHL team, and the Oakland Raiders are set to move to the gambling hub upon completion of a nearly $2 billion stadium. Thanks to the proliferation of sports betting across the country in the wake of the Supreme Court’s mid-May gutting of the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act of 1992, the major sports leagues have greatly warmed to legalized gambling. Major League Baseball could be interested in a franchise in the Silver State.
> 
> MLB commissioner Rob Manfred said on the The Dan Patrick Show early this year that “Vegas is a viable expansion alternative.” Manfred is eyeing 32 franchises, up from 30.
> 
> “There’s been a spike in investor interest in parcels around Rio,” VitalVegas claimed on its Twitter account. “The speculation part: If an MLB ballpark plan is in the works, it’s an ‘Aha’ moment for why Stations has invested so much in the [nearby] Palms [casino] when it can’t possibly recoup the investment—unless they know something we don’t.”



https://twitter.com/VitalVegas/status/1049336944897847296

https://twitter.com/VitalVegas/status/1049338952463736832


It could well turn out to be nothing but who would've thought they'd gain both NFL and NHL within a few years.


----------



## The Game Is Up

> A pair of tweets by the closely-watched Vital Vegas Twitter account has set off a firestorm of speculation about the possibility of Major League Baseball coming to Las Vegas and a stadium being built where the Rio hotel-casino currently stands.


https://www.ktnv.com/news/tweets-about-mlb-stadium-replacing-rio-drive-internet-wild


----------



## Chevy114

Not sure where this guys specifically, so here it goes. A former Jags employee says he heard the Jags are moving to London in 2022, but he needs 24 out of the 32 owners to approve it first:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...ms-shad-khan-plans-to-move-jaguars-to-london/


----------



## weava

Las Vegas is the #40 TV market. No way they get a 3rd big 4 team, especially not a MLB team. 

Supporting 1-2 pro teams is one thing, but they will not be able to support 3 teams, especially when MLB teams are so reliant on local TV deals. The NFL could be viable anywhere because of the league's national TV deals but small market baseball teams struggle and LV would be a disaster with sub 10,000 attendances and very low TV money.


----------



## jain ladda

*Top 5 Best Upcoming Sports Stadiums in America*


----------



## GunnerJacket

Chevy114 said:


> Not sure where this guys specifically, so here it goes. A former Jags employee says he heard the Jags are moving to London in 2022, but he needs 24 out of the 32 owners to approve it first:
> 
> https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...ms-shad-khan-plans-to-move-jaguars-to-london/


"I'll take '_Secrets that everyone knows_' for $800, Alex."

Seriously, though, if this discussion picks up it belongs in either the Wembley thread or the New White Hall Lane thread, depending on the most likely venue to host.


Back to Vegas...


----------



## RMB2007

> Plans have been revealed to develop a 15,000-seat cricket stadium as part of a wider mixed-use development in the US city of Allen, Texas.
> 
> Texas-based Thakkar Developers, in collaboration with the CricRealty Company, unveiled the Allen Sports Village plans yesterday (Tuesday). Along with the cricket stadium, the Village will feature more than 500,000 square feet of office space, 1,000 residential units, 165,000 square feet of retail and restaurants, a training centre, an events centre, and two hotels.
> 
> The City of Allen, which is a suburb of Dallas, is working with the developers to finalise an economic incentives agreement to support the project. Yesterday’s announcement came after Poorvesh Thakkar of Thakkar Developers last week told the Dallas Morning News that he’s positive the reported $500m (£395.2m/€438.5m) project will be built, adding that the development team already owns the around 80 acres of land needed.
> 
> In addition to professional cricket, the multi-use stadium will also be suitable for other sports, as well as concerts and special events. Construction on the site is expected to begin in 2019, with the first phase, including the stadium, expected to be completed in 2021.


https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/2018/12/19/cricket-heart-texan-sports-village-project/


----------



## JJG

RMB2007 said:


> https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/2018/12/19/cricket-heart-texan-sports-village-project/


----------



## dfwabel

JJG said:


>


There were two dozen city RFPs to USA Cricket regarding a potential U.S.-based T20 professional league. 49ers Exec. VP Paraag Marathe is the Board Chair for USA Cricket.


----------



## pesto

dfwabel said:


> There were two dozen city RFPs to USA Cricket regarding a potential U.S.-based T20 professional league. 49ers Exec. VP Paraag Marathe is the Board Chair for USA Cricket.


There has been talk of that sort for decades. The problem is that there is little potential media money due to the slowness of play and the average fan is of Caribbean or S. Asian origin and not that wealthy or is here temporarily.

The only adult leagues I see in South Bay are 100 percent foreign-born S. Asians. The kids' leagues consist mostly of fathers forcing their sons to learn to play, usually strongly against their will. They want to be playing Madden instead. :lol:

For sure, could be different in other parts of the country.


----------



## Calvin W

pesto said:


> There has been talk of that sort for decades. The problem is that there is little potential media money due to the slowness of play and the average fan is of Caribbean or S. Asian origin and not that wealthy or is here temporarily.
> 
> The only adult leagues I see in South Bay are 100 percent foreign-born S. Asians. The kids' leagues consist mostly of fathers forcing their sons to learn to play, usually strongly against their will. They want to be playing Madden instead. :lol:
> 
> For sure, could be different in other parts of the country.


Have you ever watched 20/20? It is not slow at all! NFL is slow in comparison to 20/20. 

Cricket is to advanced for the average American sports fan. You actually have to watch and pay attention to the game. Unlike the TV spoon fed games that USA is used to.


----------



## Lumbergo

is it just me or does the scale of the stadium in that rendering appear to be too small to be a cricket stadium? I know it's only 15K but that footprint is the size of a small arena. cricket fields are massive - are they not?


----------



## weava

Calvin W said:


> Have you ever watched 20/20? It is not slow at all! NFL is slow in comparison to 20/20.
> 
> _*Cricket is to advanced for the average American sports fan*_. You actually have to watch and pay attention to the game. Unlike the TV spoon fed games that USA is used to.


You are either a troll or uninformed.


----------



## Calvin W

weava said:


> You are either a troll or uninformed.


 Neither.

Just because the NFL have rules for every little thing doesn't make the game more complex. 
Having rules against endzone celebrations, automatic coin tosses, Disqualifying your quarterbacks, etc means a typical American over processed game

I have watched NFL. Simple game....


----------



## Guest

i watch cricket. it isnt complex. neither is nfl. there is no such thing as a complex sport. theyre all easy to get. they only seem complex to people that dont care to watch in the first place. 

but if youre going to launch pro leagues, youre not going to get the average sports fan to tune in. you need a lot of cricket fans to succeed. i havent seen too much evidence of a latent fanbase to support a pro league in NA.


----------



## RMB2007

They need to start somewhere in order to better promote the game and, according to previous reports, Texas is one state where many immigrants from India are now calling 'home'. So they should have a decent support base in Texas to get things up and running. 



> Immigrants relocating to Texas on rise


https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article41327274.html



> Asian Indian population booming in Dallas-Fort Worth


https://www.dallasnews.com/news/news/2012/01/11/asian-indian-population-booming-in-dallas-fort-worth



> Gov. Greg Abbott courts Indian immigrants, a group gaining visibility, clout in North Texas


https://www.dallasnews.com/news/tex...ts-group-gaining-visibility-clout-north-texas


----------



## The Game Is Up




----------



## RMB2007

> Miami Marine Stadium Final Renovation Plans Revealed
> 
> When Ultra Music Festival announced its move to Virginia Key, many fans wondered whether the festival would be utilizing the iconic and historic Miami Marine Stadium. This stadium sits right on the property and used to play host to huge concerts out on the water. However the stadium is still condemned after Hurricane Andrew and cannot be used as is. This week, final plans were revealed for the Miami Marine Stadium’s renovation and they look amazing.
> 
> The stadium will be fully renovated for $50 million and a giant stage will be built out on the water connected by docks according to the concept images. Now the plan will go out to bid soon, but it won’t be ready for Ultra for some time. The renovation is expected to be completed in 2022. What the construction would mean for future editions of Ultra is anybody’s guess, but one day Ultra will be able to use a legendary water stage.


https://www.edmtunes.com/2019/02/miami-marine-stadium-final-renovation-plans/


----------



## RMB2007

> An investment group aiming to build a 20,000-seat cricket stadium in metro Atlanta has closed a deal to purchase Gwinnett Place Mall, according to a report by Bisnow, a commercial real estate publication.
> 
> The struggling mall would be repurposed into a stadium that would be surrounded by a mixed-use project that would include retail, residential and office space.
> 
> Early estimates pegged the planned investment at $70 to $125 million for the stadium alone, plus an additional $80 to $100 million for ancillary developments.


https://www.globalatlanta.com/repor...nett-place-mall-into-cricket-stadium-complex/


----------



## Archbishop

Spending 9 figures on a cricket stadium in America is an incredible way to waste money.


----------



## aquamaroon

^^ Nothing against the sport but I agree. $100 million for a cricket stadium in America?? ridiculous.


----------



## Calvin W

Obviously not, otherwise they wouldn't be developing it.


----------



## slipperydog

RMB2007 said:


> https://www.globalatlanta.com/repor...nett-place-mall-into-cricket-stadium-complex/


I find this utterly fascinating.


----------



## Walbanger

^^ If this Cricket Ground goes ahead, they should shape the field as an Oval rather than a circle so if it can more satisfactorily cater for wider use like Rugby, Gaelic Sports, Aussie Rules. And if it all goes tits-up, it can be repurposed into an Athletic track stadium.


----------



## Guest

slipperydog said:


> I find this utterly fascinating.


Apparently part of an 8 team league. Georgia is 4% Asian population. Of that, who knows how many are actually from subcontinent. 

It’s possible that this only makes sense from a landgrab point of view. But longterm viability is questionable.


----------



## WesTexas

As a football coach, There is more to the game than what you listed. getting 11 men to do one thing for a play to go a certain way, and then each player knowing what they can and can not do while trying to achieve that goal is very difficult. 

At the same time, we think any sport we do not understand is complicated. 



Calvin W said:


> Neither.
> 
> Just because the NFL have rules for every little thing doesn't make the game more complex.
> Having rules against endzone celebrations, automatic coin tosses, Disqualifying your quarterbacks, etc means a typical American over processed game
> 
> I have watched NFL. Simple game....


----------



## WesTexas

Walbanger said:


> ^^ If this Cricket Ground goes ahead, they should shape the field as an Oval rather than a circle so if it can more satisfactorily cater for wider use like Rugby, Gaelic Sports, Aussie Rules. And if it all goes tits-up, it can be repurposed into an Athletic track stadium.


If it goes "tits up" we will find a way to turn it into a football stadium.


----------



## pesto

5portsF4n said:


> Apparently part of an 8 team league. Georgia is 4% Asian population. Of that, who knows how many are actually from subcontinent.
> 
> It’s possible that this only makes sense from a landgrab point of view. But longterm viability is questionable.


Well, it's not just subcontinentals; there's the Caribbean and other places where the Brits colonized and who now come to the US in large numbers. But I would be skeptical. 

Btw, the book _Netherland_ deals in part with the dream of starting a cricket league in NY. It's quality lit, an updating of the Gatsby mythology. Also good if you know much about Manhattan and Queens.


----------



## slipperydog

*Houston SaberCats*































































https://www.houstonchronicle.com
https://twitter.com/Hou_Sabercats


----------



## The Game Is Up

> Jackie Robinson Stadium in Compton will be refurbished in a partnership involving the Los Angeles Dodgers Foundation and the charitable organization operated by Dodger pitching star Clayton Kershaw and his wife Ellen, it was announced Monday.
> 
> The partnership involving Kershaw's Challenge will also include the construction of a new "Field 42'' at Gonzales Park, site of Jackie Robinson Stadium.
> 
> Construction will begin later this year on the 52nd and 53rd Dodgers Dreamfields, continuing the LADF's commitment to build 75 Dodgers Dreamfields by 2033, the 75th anniversary of the team's move to Los Angeles.
> 
> The renovation of Jackie Robinson Stadium will include upgrades to the field, outfield fence, dugouts, scoreboard, backstop, lighting, bathrooms/locker room facilities and spectator viewing areas.
> 
> The new Field 42 will serve youth baseball and softball players ages 5-12. It will include a large LED scoreboard, windscreens on the outfield wall and an enclosed batting cage and a new irrigation and watering system to ensure that the field stays ready for play well into the future.


http://www.foxla.com/sports/jackie-robinson-stadium-in-compton-to-be-refurbished


----------



## The Game Is Up

> DUNEDIN, FL -- The Toronto Blue Jays and the city of Dunedin will host a groundbreaking ceremony for the new Blue Jays spring training facilities.
> 
> The event will take place Tuesday at 10 a.m. at the current Dunedin Stadium, 373 Douglas Ave.
> 
> Work is already underway on an $80 million face lift on both facilities under an agreement that will maintain Dunedin as the spring training facility for the Toronto Blue Jays and its minor league team in Dunedin for the next 25 years.
> 
> Plans call for the total renovation of the stadium and the expansion of the Blue Jays Player Development Complex at the Louis A. Vanech Recreation Complex at 3051 Garrison Road.
> 
> Construction will by completed by February 2020.


https://patch.com/florida/dunedin/groundbreaking-ceremony-set-new-toronto-blue-jays-stadium


----------



## Chevy114

It looks good, reminds me of how they renovated the O's stadium in Sarasota and now it's one of my fav. spring training stadiums


----------



## The Game Is Up

6 Groups Offer Proposals For Pawtucket Red Sox Stadium Site

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2019/04/26/pawtucket-red-sox-mccoy-stadium-rhode-island-proposals/


----------



## slipperydog

*Agua Caliente plans new downtown Palm Springs sports, entertainment arena*



> A new arena that could be home to a minor league NHL team and host to major entertainment acts is coming to Agua Caliente Band of Cahuilla Indians land in downtown Palm Springs, officials announced Wednesday afternoon.
> 
> The NHL Seattle franchise and Oak View Group have submitted an application for a minor league NHL team, which if approved, would play in the arena in Palm Springs by fall 2021, according to the tribe.
> 
> The 300,000-square-foot arena will be built on 16 acres of tribal land and include roughly 10,000 seats, according to the tribe. An adjoining facility will be built alongside it for use as a community gathering space and training center for a minor league hockey team.
> 
> Grubbe said he doesn't have details on what the arena would look like yet, and not to expect renderings anytime soon. He did say that the arena would be state of the art and would fit in with the overall look of downtown Palm Springs.
> 
> Groundbreaking and construction is scheduled to begin in February 2020, according to the tribe. The arena is expected to open by fall 2021 in time for the hockey season.


FULL ARTICLE: https://www.desertsun.com/story/spo...arena-possible-nhl-affiliate-team/1576998001/


----------



## JJG

slipperydog said:


> *San Antonio Rampage purchased by Vegas Golden Knights, will relocate to new 6,000 seat ice arena in Henderson, Nevada*
> 
> https://www.nhl.com/goldenknights/n...ity-of-henderson-issue-ahl-update/c-315009272


The people of San Antonio are not happy about this... 

Mainly because some are actually paranoid of the Spurs being moved to Vegas along with this and the WNBA Silver Stars.


----------



## pesto

KingmanIII said:


> _Another_ Vegas arena? Really?


Hard to believe. But Vegas runs to a different dynamic.

As with restaurants, they can afford to be 3/4 empty most of the time because their major purpose is to lure and keep people at the casinos. And if you don't have the right sized venue, even if rarely used, you risk missing out on a few major conventions every year.


----------



## GreenHornet553

@Chevy

Seeing Orleans Arena set up like that for hockey, along with the recent popularity of the Golden Knights, makes me wonder if UNLV may try and join Arizona State in division 1 hockey any time soon. I mean, its only a matter of time before more of the PAC 12 and such cash in on the recent popularity and participation increase of hockey on the west coast, especially California thanks to the success of the Anaheim Ducks and LA Kings. I could see UNLV following suit.


----------



## GreenHornet553

@RMB 2007

Why would St Pete build another stadium when Tampa already has a good downtown arena in Amalie Arena?


----------



## Chevy114

To be fair Henderson is 20 minutes or so from Las Vegas so having a minor league team that close isn't that uncommon in a lot of sports.


----------



## weava

No reason Vegas should have both an NHL and AHL team when there are cities of 2 million like San Antonio, Cincinnati, Portland, and Kansas City that don't have a team from either league...


----------



## slipperydog

weava said:


> No reason Vegas should have both an NHL and AHL team when there are cities of 2 million like San Antonio, Cincinnati, Portland, and Kansas City that don't have a team from either league...


To be fair, the owners of the Vegas Golden Knights' primary aim is to make decisions that are most advantageous for their franchise, not to ensure geographic American hockey socialism.


----------



## pesto

It does sound a bit odd but I assume they see an opportunity with the Canadian and US snowbirds that come to the desert for the winters as well as locals priced out by the NHL. 

In any event, it's always hard to make comparisons with LV since, for example, LV has as much air traffic as those 4 other cities combined and far more hotel rooms. It really is not very comparable to other cities its size.


----------



## Calvin W

weava said:


> No reason Vegas should have both an NHL and AHL team when there are cities of 2 million like San Antonio, Cincinnati, Portland, and Kansas City that don't have a team from either league...


Toronto have both. Same with Chicago, San Jose, Montreal and Winnipeg.

San Jose and Winnipeg even have both teams in the same arenas.


----------



## pesto

Btw, I notice that the worst NFL stadium poll lists several stadiums without current teams including the top 3 "worst" positions. It might be time to revise the rankings or just drop the whole idea.


----------



## RMB2007

The Utah Warriors announced today its intentions to build a new 10,000-seat multi-sport stadium, which will serve as the permanent home for the Warriors rugby team by 2023. In addition to Warriors home games during the MLR season, the stadium will serve as a venue for other professional sports teams that the Warriors ownership group intends to bring to the state of Utah.

The planned state-of-the-art facility will also play host to community, high school, concerts and other entertainment-industry events and serve as the vital anchor tenant for a live-work-play entertainment-style district in one of Utah’s Wasatch Front communities.

To build the Warriors’ first-class facility, the organization has teamed up with sports-venue construction giant Mortenson. Mortenson, the No. 1 Sports Facility Builder according to Engineering News-Record, has been operating in the Utah community since 1983 and recently opened a permanent office in Utah.









Utah Warriors announce new multi-use stadium plans - Utah Warriors Rugby


Salt Lake City, Utah — September 29, 2020. The Utah Warriors announced today its intentions to build a new 10,000-seat multi-sport stadium, which will serve as the permanent home for the Warriors rugby team by 2023. In addition to Warriors home games during the MLR season, the stadium will serve...




www.warriorsrugby.com


----------



## RMB2007

*Major League Cricket (MLC) has reached an agreement with the City of Grand Prairie to develop the sport’s first world-class stadium in the United States.*

MLC, USA Cricket’s exclusive partner for the development of a professional Twenty20 league in the country, has received approval from the Texan city on a long-term lease agreement to begin an extensive redevelopment of AirHogs Stadium.

The parent company of MLC, American Cricket Enterprises (ACE), in cooperation with USA Cricket, the national governing body for the sport, has appointed design firm HKS to repurpose and design the stadium.

The City of Grand Prairie owns AirHogs Stadium, which opened in 2008 as the home of the Texas AirHogs American Association of Independent Professional Baseball team. The Airhogs folded last month.

The stadium, located between Arlington and Dallas, is adjacent to Lone Star Park horse racing track and currently seats a capacity of 5,445. It features 13 luxury suites and what is deemed to be ample space for improved amenities to enhance the experience of fans and cricketers alike.

The stadium will be repurposed to be completely dedicated to cricket, with an increase in the seating capacity planned to accommodate more than 8,000 spectators with additional and upgraded hospitality features.

The redevelopment of the venue is scheduled to take place throughout 2021 before playing host to the Texas MLC franchise that is planned to launch in 2022, as well as a base for the USA Cricket national team and a High Performance Center.









‘World-class’ cricket stadium set for Texas - The Stadium Business


Major League Cricket (MLC) has reached an agreement with the City of Grand Prairie to develop the sport’s first world-class stadium in the United States. MLC, USA Cricket’s exclusive partner for the development of a professional Twenty20 league in the country, has received approval from the...




www.thestadiumbusiness.com


----------



## slipperydog

These MLC folks, whoever they are, must have a lot of cash to burn.


----------



## nyrmetros

aquamaroon said:


> Seems to me like the ultimate goal is to get the NBA to Tampa, and boy this arena looks great. My only question would be, is Tampa-St. Pete a big enough metro to support TWO big time arenas?


Doubtful.....


----------



## RMB2007

Utah Warriors co-founder and partner Lucas Kjar, founder of the Autosource Dealerships, announced today the purchase of land and a facility to build a privately-funded rugby academy focusing on innovative, tactile, and engaging learning strategies for young men. The school, called Liberty Boys Academy, in Liberty Lake, Washington, will launch grades 4th through 6th in the fall of 2021 and will scale up to grades 4th through 12th in the near future.









Warriors Co-Founder Announces Plans to Build School & Rugby Academy - Utah Warriors Rugby


Herriman, Utah — Utah Warriors co-founder and partner Lucas Kjar, founder of the Autosource Dealerships, announced today the purchase of land and a facility to build a privately-funded rugby academy focusing on innovative, tactile, and engaging learning strategies for young men. The school...




www.warriorsrugby.com


----------



## RMB2007

The Arizona State athletics department got the green light on Wednesday to start construction on the school’s $115 million new multi-purpose arena in January.

The 5,000-seat arena, which will be located south of Rio Salado Parkway on the east side of Packard Drive, will host the school’s men’s hockey and wrestling teams, and women’s gymnastics program.

The arena will house an adjacent community hockey rink and will also host concerts, conferences and other events, according to a university press release.

The project is scheduled to be completed by December 2022.









ASU to begin construction on multi-purpose arena in January


The Arizona State athletics department got the green light on Wednesday to start construction on the school's new multi-purpose arena in January.




arizonasports.com


----------



## Hudson11

History of NFL venues


----------



## PHofKS

A 5,000 seat arena is under construction in Clarksville, TN (2020 pop. City;165,000 Metro; 306,000) to host Austin Peay State University basketball and minor league hockey. It is remarkably similar in look to the above Arizona State proposal *shown above*. It will be owned by Montgomery County and operated by the owners of the Nashville Predators NHL team, 45 miles away, who also operate the wildly successful Bridgestone Arena in Nashville.

















It will feature a sheet of ice in the main arena and a second sheet for public use and youth hockey.









_*Rufus Johnson and Associates*_ were the architects.


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1348739152536342528


----------



## Chevy114

Nice without crowds because of covid, I bet we can wedge stadiums into all sorts of fun places now!


----------



## PHofKS

The Knoxville, Tennessee City Commission has given approval for the construction of a $65 million minor league baseball stadium in a run-down industrial/commercial part of town near the City's small, but developing 'Old Town' district. The stadium is planned to host USL Soccer, also as well as concerts and many other events. There will be additional mixed-use development costing up to $100 million to be financed and owned by the project developers. 

My slides with renderings from the project submittal to the city. 





































A draft of the construction time line;


----------



## RMB2007

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465728938500579333


----------



## PHofKS

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465728938500579333
How the proposed rebuilt 30,000 seat NASCAR stadium in Nashville will fit in with the under-construction soccer stadium;










And a couple of other views;


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1467998840200462341


----------



## RMB2007

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1475533182434897921


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## slipperydog

"Economist advises caution."

LOL.


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## RMB2007

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1475920958963736587


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## RMB2007

The USA Cricket’s strategic partners American Cricket Enterprises (ACE) and the country of Santa Clara had agreed to enter into an exclusive negotiating agreement (ENA) to design, negotiate and seek approvals for a state-of-the-art cricket stadium project in the city of San Jose. The proposed area for the construction of the stadium is 14 acres which is located in the Santa Clara County Fairgrounds.

The exclusive negotiating agreement will be effective for the next 12 months which might allow both parties to zero upon the nitty gritties of the overall project. And also, there are high-level plans to construct a 6,000-8,000-capacity seater stadium with an ability to further enhance the capacity to 15,000 with temporary seating.

According to the sources, it is expected that the $50M stadium development project will be undertaken in phases with an aim to wrap up phase one of the construction project before the 2024 T20 World Cup. 

The proposed stadium is also be a home to Major League Cricket’s (MLC) San Francisco Bay area franchise.









Proposal agreed for a new cricket stadium in San Francisco Bay area


The proposed stadium is also be a home to Major League Cricket's (MLC) San Francisco Bay area franchise. If the proposed agreement comes into a shape, it will




fanaticbuff.com


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## Juanpabloangel

Major league cricket wow.


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## RMB2007

Plans for a new cricket stadium at the Santa Clara County Fairgrounds have been announced by Major League Cricket and Santa Clara County. The popular sport has been gaining traction in the Bay Area, with the MLC crediting the growing South Asian community as a catalyst for construction in San Jose. HKS will be the project architect, charged with designing a state-of-the-art arena to seat up to 15,000 fans.

The San Jose grounds will be one of only a few international cricket grounds in the United States and among the largest in the county. The current largest ground is the Central Broward Regional Park in Lauderhill, Florida, able to host 20,000 fans. The stadium hosted four Twenty20 World Cups since 2010.









HKS-Designed Pro Cricket Stadium Proposed for Santa Clara County Fairgrounds - San Francisco YIMBY


Plans for a new cricket stadium at the Santa Clara County Fairgrounds have been announced by Major League Cricket and Santa Clara County. The popular...



sfyimby.com


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## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484970660245893122


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## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486397781619232769


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## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491535190069366785


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## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501256563037663235


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## PHofKS

Progress on the Clarksville, TN F&M Bank Arena. It will accommodate 6,000 spectators for hockey and college basketball.


PHofKS said:


> Some more renderings and a construction picture; construction picture from Henry Taylor;
> View attachment 1914630
> 
> 
> Renderings from Rufus Johnson;
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> View attachment 1914632
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> 
> Practice ice;
> View attachment 1914633
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> 
> View attachment 1914635
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> 
> View attachment 1914636
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> 
> It will have 5,000 seats for Austin Peay basketball, which suits a small school (but with a strong basketball tradition). Dressing rooms and fan amenities will be first class, however.
> 
> *EDIT:* Some construction pictures from early October;
> View attachment 2278989
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> View attachment 2278991
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> View attachment 2278991


From Clarksville Now...


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## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501344683242393602


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## Tered

3/15/2022
*Dollar Loan Center and Silver Knights Arena Completed in Henderson, Las Vegas*




TheMagnitude of Las Vegas


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## slipperydog

Oak View Group, the global venue development, advisory and investment company for the sports and live entertainment industries, has commenced work on a $150m (£114m/€136m) transformation project at Baltimore’s Royal Farms Arena.

OVG is working with the Baltimore Development Corporation and Thirty Five Ventures, a company co-founded by NBA star Kevin Durant and businessman Rich Kleiman.

Once renovated, it is hoped the arena will serve as a key anchor on the west side of downtown Baltimore and help drive further investment in the area. The renovations will be fully funded by OVG and Thirty Five Ventures.

The city-owned Royal Farms Arena opened in 1962 and has been used to stage basketball and ice hockey games. Renovations to the arena will include new seats and suites, refurbished concourses, upgraded concession areas and a revamp of the building’s appearance.

Other upgrades will include focuses on sustainability through locally-sourced materials, LED lighting, low flow and waterless fixtures, “world-class” acoustics, and next-generation touchless and self-serve technologies.

The new-look arena, *which is scheduled to open in 2023*, will host concerts, family shows and other events, as well as UFC, tennis, boxing, NBA exhibition games, NCAA events and more.









OVG begins work on $150m Baltimore Arena revamp


Oak View Group, the global venue development, advisory and investment company for the sports and live entertainment industries, has commenced...




www.thestadiumbusiness.com


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## nyrmetros

Baltimore needs more hockey.


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## aquamaroon

slipperydog said:


> OVG begins work on $150m Baltimore Arena revamp
> 
> 
> Oak View Group, the global venue development, advisory and investment company for the sports and live entertainment industries, has commenced...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thestadiumbusiness.com


Great to see arena investment in a city without an NBA/NHL team. If OVG is listening lol, I would like to pitch Cincinnati as their next market, IMO after Baltimore it's the most obvious metro area in the country for a state of the art arena that doesn't have one yet.


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## slipperydog

Sharks Sports & Entertainment (SSE), the parent company of the San Jose Sharks of the National Hockey League and San Jose Barracuda of the American Hockey League, along with PIVOT Agency, announced today that it has reached a 10-year agreement with Tech CU to become the naming rights partner of a new, state-of-the-art, 4,200-seat arena being constructed at Sharks Ice at San Jose to be known as Tech CU Arena. The naming rights partnership was voted on and approved unanimously by the San Jose City Council earlier today.

Tech CU Arena is the crown jewel of a 200,000 square foot expansion of the Sharks Ice at San Jose public skating facility and will become the new home of the San Jose Barracuda. The venue is scheduled to open in August of 2022, in time for the start of the 2022-23 AHL season.



https://www.sjbarracuda.com/news/detail/techcuarena












__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512160306880937985


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## PHofKS

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517494429254258689

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517498707377364995


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## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520055307166052354


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## RMB2007

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1519774619561074688


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## aquamaroon

Today was the 148th annual "fastest two minutes in sports" the Kentucky Derby, and in a stunner, a massive underdog named Rich Strike won it! At 80-1 odds!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523076844546772992

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523099824840531968
So not only a longshot, but THE longest shot in the field. Some first time bettors at Churchill Downs who didn't know what they were doing made some money today lol. Not the craziest thing that's happened since 1875, but it's one for the books!



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1523087584980832256


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## RMB2007

MAJOR LEAGUE CRICKET SECURES $120M FUNDING TO DRIVE AMERICAN CRICKET DEVELOPMENT

The $120 million investment into MLC will primarily be dedicated to building premier cricket-specific stadia and training centers to develop a new generation of American star cricketers. This unprecedented infrastructure investment will transform the landscape for professional cricket and enable the United States to host global events over the next decade and beyond. As well as international games, world-class T20 action will be played annually with MLC bringing the best cricketers in the world to play in cricket-specific venues with natural turf wickets and first-class amenities for fans.









MAJOR LEAGUE CRICKET SECURES $120M FUNDING TO DRIVE AMERICAN CRICKET DEVELOPMENT - Major League Cricket


Investment in MLC will transform U.S. cricket landscape and fund the construction of world-class cricket stadia and training centers nationwide Major League Cricket (MLC) is pleased to announce it has completed an initial close of a $44 million Series A and A1 Fundraising Round led by a group of...




www.majorleaguecricket.com


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## PHofKS

The city of Chattanooga, Tennessee has announced plans to build a new minor league baseball stadium in a very run-down industrial district south of the Chattanooga downtown as shown here (my cards).
























It will cost up to $79.5 million for which the money would come from several sources.









A large part of the funding would come from property taxes on the expected surrounding development. From the CHATTANOOGAN.


> More than 100 acres of the long-neglected U.S. Pipe and Wheland Foundry sites "will begin transforming into a world-class live-work-play district that will generate more than $40 million for schools," Hamilton County Mayor Jim Coppinger and Chattanooga Mayor Tim Kelly announced at a press conference at the site on Thursday.
> 
> Flanked by nationally renowned master developer Jim Irwin of New City Properties, the mayors detailed a public-private partnership that they said "will allow a long-planned revitalization of the blighted site - which is expected to generate more than $1 billion in private investment - to begin in earnest."
> 
> They said an initial $350 million phase, which will include multi-family residential buildings, class-A office space, and public recreation areas, will be anchored and catalyzed by a $79.5 million multi-use stadium.


The area was an important industrial area with a major iron foundry many years ago, but is now a classic example of urban decay. The park is proposed to be built in the shadow of the old foundry.












> Flanked by nationally renowned master developer Jim Irwin of New City Properties, the mayors detailed a public-private partnership that they said "will allow a long-planned revitalization of the blighted site - which is expected to generate more than $1 billion in private investment - to begin in earnest."
> 
> They said an initial $350 million phase, which will include multi-family residential buildings, class-A office space, and public recreation areas, will be anchored and catalyzed by a $79.5 million multi-use stadium.
> 
> Officials said, "The stadium itself will only be used by the Lookouts 20 percent of the year. The rest of the time, it will be a community asset, available for residents to use for local events or to freely access as yet another beautiful, open green space in our city.


EDITED; Added a sharper rendering.


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## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554892267969814528


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## RMB2007




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## slipperydog

Oklahoma City set for new arena


Oklahoma City Council has approved the final plans for a new arena which is set to replace an existing venue...




www.thestadiumbusiness.com





Oklahoma City Council has approved the final plans for a new arena which is set to replace an existing venue at the OKC Fairgrounds.

The $102m project, set to be majority funded from tax revenues, was given the green light at a meeting yesterday (Tuesday) after what Mayor David Holt described as a “fairly momentous vote”. A tender process to construct the facility, currently dubbed OKC Fairgrounds Coliseum, is set to commence immediately.

Designed by Populous, the arena will have a seating capacity of up to around 8,000. It will feature an innovative upper level concourse that can be configured to provide seating via retractable seats, sponsor activation zones, vendor space, or any combination of these elements.

The 140-foot-by-270-foot event floor is driven by equestrian events, but will be able to host multi-purpose events such as state basketball finals, Disney on Ice, state wrestling finals, concerts and rodeos. An open multi-story entry will frame a view of the Oklahoma City skyline from the concourse level.

Populous was commissioned by Oklahoma State Fair Inc., with the expectation that construction will be able to commence following this year’s fair, which runs from September 15-25. The new facility will replace Jim Norick Arena, which opened in 1965 and is named after the city’s late mayor.

It is intended that the current venue will operate until the new arena opens in 2024, at which point it will be demolished.


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## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1562200232326074370


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## RMB2007

New texts show former Mississippi governor helped funnel welfare funds to Brett Favre for USM volleyball stadium









New texts show former Mississippi governor helped funnel welfare funds to Brett Favre for USM volleyball stadium - ProFootballTalk


Hall of Fame quarterback Brett Favre keeps inching toward potential Paul Crewe status.Anna Wolfe of Mississippi Today reports that newly-revealed text messages show that former Mississippi governor Phil Bryant helped funnel federal welfare funds toward the building of a new volleyball stadium at...




profootballtalk.nbcsports.com


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## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572578541769986048


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## JJG

slipperydog said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1572578541769986048


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## RMB2007

Georgia State University officially opened its new Convocation Center in the Summerhill neighborhood of Atlanta, near Center Parc Stadium.

The latest addition to Georgia State’s growing presence in the neighborhood and in downtown Atlanta, the Convocation Center at 455 Capitol Ave. has a seating capacity of up to 8,000 and it will host large-scale events such as First-Year Convocation, commencement and concerts. It will also be the new home court for Georgia State men’s and women’s basketball.









Georgia State to Open New Convocation Center


Georgia State University will officially open its new Convocation Center Sept. 15 in the Summerhill neighborhood of Atlanta, near Center Parc Stadium.




news.gsu.edu




.


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## GunnerJacket

I'm nonplussed by this particular design, but as a whole I really appreciate what GSU and their partner developers are doing with the neighborhood. It will be dramatically different from when the Braves last played there, and all the changes are making for a MUCH more vibrant neighborhood. I suspect this will help in providing a viable event venue for many nights, adding a draw to make people come and linger.


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## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579879521762697234


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## BlazerBlaze

GunnerJacket said:


> I'm nonplussed by this particular design, but as a whole I really appreciate what GSU and their partner developers are doing with the neighborhood. It will be dramatically different from when the Braves last played there, and all the changes are making for a MUCH more vibrant neighborhood. I suspect this will help in providing a viable event venue for many nights, adding a draw to make people come and linger.


Dude the new arena is brutal design wise. I drive by it every day for work and it's just a giant grey box. The "window to the city" on the north side is non-noticeable and frankly hidden by trees from the interstate and Capital Square area. 

Took the drone out for the first time during the Southern-State tailgate and grabbed this picture which, to me, shows how badly this looks like an ugly giant grey shoebox plopped down in the city. They've got some of the color spotlights like the Benz, but they don't go all the way around the arena for some reason. Really feels like they ran short on funding and had to cut some corners on this one. 

(also, my dear cauldron needs a re-touch of paint. Poor thing)


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## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579484854898806785

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579502014056103938


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## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1581112056648200192


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## Chevy114

As a former wrestler and coach, I'm excited to see how cool this place looks for wrestling matches!


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## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582118617252233216


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## Chevy114

Man this is going to be like the chargers at the galaxy's stadium


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## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586188034780717057


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## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1591446052846059521


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## eurocup2016

Chevy114 said:


> Man this is going to be like the chargers at the galaxy's stadium


It's gonna be much worse. The Charges actually had a new home under construction when they played at Galaxy stadium. The Chargers left San Diego, the Coyotes were kicked out of Glendale. Galaxy stadium was temporary for the Chargers. At the moment ASU arena is permanent for the Yotes for the time being. Galaxy stadium is one third the capacity of SoFi. ASU arena is one fifth the capacity of Glendale.


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## Sandro14

KC current new stadium has new renderings. Article about it: Kansas City Current Releases New Renderings and Construction Timeline for Downtown Stadium - Kansas City Current


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