# Vertigo Transsib: Pyongyang



## Vertigo (Oct 23, 2002)

The last city in these series of my Transsiberian travel. It's certainly the weirdest city I ever visited, and I expect that to remain so for the rest of my life. 

Arriving by train in the city was a strange experience in itself. Because of the energy crisis in the country, many parts of Pyongyang don't have electricity on parts of the day. There's also no streetlights in most parts of the city. So we travelled by train along huge rows of commie blocks, which we could only vaguely see in the moonlight. Creepy.

After arriving on Pyongyang's main station (military music blasting through the speakers...), we were waited for by our guides, who immidiately brought us to our hotel. This hotel (160 meter high) is only meant for foreign tourists and is situated on an island in the river (so tourists can easily be seperated from North-Koreans). This means that they can allow things for the tourists that are not allowed outside. We had BBC World on our TV and there's even a casino in the basement! 

The next days we wouldn't go anywhere without our guides. They showed us lots of monumental places in the country at a very fast pace, while trying to ensure you won't see much of the regular life in the country. But they don't fully succeed in that: you get quite a good impression of the poor village life when passing through the countryside by train or car. Unfortuantely, taking pictures of such scenes was out of the question.

In Pyongyang things are a bit more relaxed: you can freely take pictures in most streets. This is because Pyongyang's citizens are privleged citizens: they get better clothes, jobs, food, etc. Also, the city doesn't look bad at all. It's not beautiful though, except when you like huge amounts of commie blocks and giant communist momuments. 

The country is getting a bit more modern. There are far more private cars on the streets than some years ago. Also, there are some food kiosks on street, operated privately (!) by people, at the same time competing(!!) the state-run shops. What's more: FIAT recently opened a car factory in the country... and there's even advertising (!!!!) in the streets for the cars produced there.

Anyway, here's are the first pics of Pyongyang. Unfortunately during our entire stay it was very foggy and cloudy. I tried to correct some pics because of that, but this also means that they are a bit grainy and strange coloured. 

More pics will follow.

1. The Great Leder Kim-Il-Sung. Still President of the Democratic(?) People's Republic of Korea, despite the fact that he's dead since a couple of years.









2. The Arch of Triumph. Of course a little bit higher than the one in Paris.









3. 









4. 









5.









6.









7. The Great People's Study House, some sort of central library. Would they have George Orwell's 1984? 









8.









9.









10. The Tower of Juche Idea (180 m). The Juche Idea is the principle on which the country is founded. It stresses the importance of independance and self-reliance for a country. A bit weird in a country that could only function because of cheap trade with the Soviet Union. The economy had collapsed since than, and there's even not enough food in the country now. Things are slowly improving though, partly because they now (reluctantly) accept foreign aid.









11. The view from the Juche Tower









12.









13.









14. A busy street in the heart of the city.









15.









16.









17.









18.









19.









20. Night view from our hotel room (40th floor)









More to come...


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## John (Sep 11, 2002)

You know, Vertigo, I was waiting for those pictures alot 
And now I can say wow! 
This is indeed looking freaky, all those empty streets, commieblocks and all. It seems you had a very interesting experience there, and staying in a hotel on the 40th floor should be pretty fun as well, at least for the views you get from there.

Although the city looks not THAT bad in those pictures, but as you noticed this must be North Korea's show-off place #1 so I can only imagine how people live in other places in N.Korea hno:

Thanks for the pictures and of course waiting for more, every photo of this country has exceptional value.

Btw, Vertigo, could you also write some details what the guides told about Pyongyang and generally about N.Korea? Did they tell anything about why the country lives like that, what is the future of the country and generally what issues they talked about? I'm really wishing to go there myself some day


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## Vertigo (Oct 23, 2002)

By themselves, the guides mostly talked in a very "statistical" manner: they told loads of facts about what we saw, but always things like "what", "who" and "when", never "why"... (if you understand what I mean). Although I was surprised their talks had less propaganda than I expected. 

But when you started asking about politics or the relation with America, the stream of propaganda, lies, etc. started. Interesting to hear for some time, but you can't get into a serious discussion with them, so you get numb with it. Therefore I found it more interesting to talk with them about casual things, like how they lived their lifes, etc. They spoke pretty openly about those issues and they turned out to be very nice and kind people anyway...

An interesting thing is, that they do not deny the problematic situation they're in. They talked quite openly about the electricity shortages, and even about the food problems. However, they didn't blame the system or the Leaders for that. Instead, they saw their system as the only solution to their problems, and blamed all hostile foreign powers for their problems. The way they spoke about this made me think they really, really believe in this and they are not just repeating propaganda. One of the guides said in an almost desperate way that he really wanted that the country would be respected more by the world. And I think he was talking honestly at that moment.

It all was very close to "1984", if you ask me. "He loved Big Brother....".


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## Huhu (Jun 5, 2004)

Wow great pics.

Btw what is that gigantic pyramid thing?


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## snake (Nov 27, 2003)

Vertigo said:


> This hotel (160 meter high) is only meant for foreign tourists and is situated on an island in the river (so tourists can easily be seperated from North-Koreans). This means that they can allow things for the tourists that are not allowed outside. We had BBC World on our TV and there's even a casino in the basement!


The hotel was built and still is managed by a Macao Chinese businessman, Macao has a huge casino business. so it's not surprise to have casino in this hotel. Sometime I just wonder whether we Chinese have a natural gene for gambling, so many Chinese addict to it. And most of tourists to N. Korea are Chinese, I believe. Personally, I don't like gambling. 



> 20. Night view from our hotel room (40th floor)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not a bad nightview, better than what I thought.


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## cicarra (May 29, 2004)

The city is absolutely beautiful and stunning. Very very futuristic and uncrowded. Everything is simply so orderly. Thank you Vertigo for the great pictures!


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## Den Haag AvW (Sep 11, 2002)

Fascinating! kay:
It must have been one extraordinary experience!


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## cicarra (May 29, 2004)

Huhu said:


> Wow great pics.
> 
> Btw what is that gigantic pyramid thing?


That's the famous RyuGyong hotel. Too bad it never got finished coz the gov't ran out of money.


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## JP (Oct 26, 2002)

unbelievable ! I did not know that was possible to take photos of this city. Really impressive... so sad...


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## John (Sep 11, 2002)

Vertigo said:


> By themselves, the guides mostly talked in a very "statistical" manner: they told loads of facts about what we saw, but always things like "what", "who" and "when", never "why"... (if you understand what I mean). Although I was surprised their talks had less propaganda than I expected.
> 
> But when you started asking about politics or the relation with America, the stream of propaganda, lies, etc. started. Interesting to hear for some time, but you can't get into a serious discussion with them, so you get numb with it. Therefore I found it more interesting to talk with them about casual things, like how they lived their lifes, etc. They spoke pretty openly about those issues and they turned out to be very nice and kind people anyway...
> 
> ...


This is pretty interesting. It's perhaps normal that they're not telling propaganda stuff to the tourists, the foreigners wouldn't believe that anyway so no need to waste time. I think the real propaganda is directed to the N.Koreans themselves just to keep them loyal o the regime and make believe all the stuff which is said.

And I also believe they could be honest, after all it's their country, the regime leaders are also their people, not set by some occupying force (as in case of the USSR), so naturally it must be really sore to know that your country is treted badly in the world ...even if it's N.Korea. I completely understand those people, just too bad there's nothing they can do


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## schmidt (Dec 5, 2002)

Very interesting thread again!

Pyongyang seemed so gigantic and empty, depressing in some ways as well, but I was quite impressed with the quantity of lights in the last pics, I thought most of those buildings were empty.

It's a sad situation for that people, even more when you have 2 ultra modern and successful neighbours.

Cool thread, I hope I can make some similar trip someday.

By the way, how long did you take from Moscow all the way to Pyongyang? And were there any flights from Pyongyang to Europe or you just had to go back to China to catch a plane?


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## beivushtang (Nov 4, 2003)

pyongyang is freakily one of the most interesting place in the world, beautiful, how did you get a visa to the DPRK ?


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## Singidunum (Jul 25, 2004)

GREAT!

whole trip and pics are just GREAT!

:applause:

Pyongyang is very nice because it is not overcrowded.

Is there possibility to go into any other town or to drive in metro? 

could you go outside of hotel?

can you speak with people in ste streets? do north koreans you had contact with spoken english or russian?

thanks.


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## Kampflamm (Dec 28, 2003)

Great pics!

Does every tourist get a government minder? Did you bow your head in front of that Kim Il Sung statue? I read that even foreign tourists have to do that to show their respect.


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## Desven (May 18, 2004)

i'm suprised,because the quality of the streets doesn't seem to be so bad!


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## Wu-Gambino (Dec 13, 2002)

What's the tower to the far right?

Also did they say anything about that Ryugyong Hotel?


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## LSyd (Aug 31, 2003)

whoa, scary, fascinating and beautiful...if it wasn't supporting that regime, i'd consider going. 

those "not overcrowded streets" are like that because the government keeps people out; they assign where you live, and when and where you can travel. just think if the government falls how many people will move to Pyongyang.

great pics, and thanks, especially of the Ryogyung.

it's all so damned surreal.

-

p.s. if you want a wierd city, in a good way, go visit Asheville, North Carolina, U.S. it's a small mountain city mostly populated by stereotypical ******** conservatives and hippies. but despite that, it's a great city.


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## Vertigo (Oct 23, 2002)

@boom: our total trip was 5 weeks, including all the stops along the route. From Pyongyang we took a train back to Beijing, and took a plane back home from there.

@singidunum: we couldn't travel freely, we had two guides who more or less decided what we were going to do. We did visit the metro, pics will come tomorrow.

@kampflamm: so, yes we got guides from the state travel agency. We didn't really bow for the statue; the guides did of course and we just stood along them. I suppose disturbing them while doing that is not a good idea...


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## JoseRodolfo (Jul 9, 2003)

Great!!!!!!!! Thanks very much Vertigo!!!

here there ia an intersting "image trick", they painted snowed huge montains in the wall, so when we see the statue with the montains behind, we have the sensation that it´s even a bigger and higher statue!! Just try to imagine that with a white or gray wall behind, it certainly changes the way we see the statue...


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## zergcerebrates (Jan 23, 2004)

I'm surprised foreigners are allowed into North Korea. How on earth did you get in there in the first place??


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## waterloo (Aug 9, 2003)

wow thanks for posting Vertigo! Your picture really shows the life style of North Koreans. You are really lucky to visit North Korea ^~^ Lucky guy!


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## ArchMadness (Feb 29, 2004)

Awesome thread. Very Sureal indeed! Can't wait to see more photos


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## null (Dec 11, 2002)

it looks like 1300M tall


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## AtlanticaC5 (Mar 14, 2003)

Pyongyang looks very interesting, and a bit scary. Great pics!


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## hoogbouw010 (Sep 10, 2002)

Fascinating pics and story.


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## Vertigo (Oct 23, 2002)

@zergcelebrates: anyone can get into North-Korea, except when you're American, South-Korean or a journalist. And you have to arrange it through a travel agency, you cannot just apply for a visa yourself. 

@waterloo: Indeed... It's just sad that you South Koreans cannot enter the country and vice versa.


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## Siberian (Oct 25, 2003)

So great photos! I even didn't expect that the photos will be so interesting! I have no words! Thank you, Vertigo! I just hope that some little positive changes in the country will continue...

an incredible photo!


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## ulex (Dec 1, 2003)

What a scary place... It's scary to see what people can do with themselves. 
I hope the Koreans will unite in the future. May God bless them. 

@Vertigo. That photo of the hotel's top should win the urban photo contest 
And thank you very much for sharing your photos and impressions about your great trip.


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## Vertigo (Oct 23, 2002)

More Pyongyang pics.

21. Again the 180 meter high tower of the Juche idea.









22. 









23. Some pics of Pyongyang's metro. The metro has two lines. Like more metro systems in (former) communist countries, it is decorated with lots of propaganda / art. The metro is located very deep below the surface, so it can also act as atomic shelter. This is clearly visible because of the huge steel doors at the bottom of the escalators. I recommend to visit this great website about Pyongyang's metro.









24. Puhung Station.









25.









26. Puhung Station.









27. Yonggwan Station.









28. The trains are former Berlin "U-Bahn" trains.









29.









30. The Koryo hotel, the best hotel in town. Here, busisnessmen and foreign diplomats sleep. Tourists sleep in the second best hotel of the country. Both hotels are usually pretty empty. 









31. We were told this old farmhouse just outside Pyongyang was Kim-Il-Sung's birthplace. I don't know if that's really true.









32. Some building in downtown Pyongyang. At night, those coloured plates on the outside light up like a 70s disco. This while more Pyongyang citizens don't have electricity at night.









33. Of course this building in Kim-Il-Sung square is always illuminated at night.









34. The weirdest place that we visited was the School Children's Palace. Children come here to do after school activities, like sports, computers or music. We were told they're the best kids of the country. I have to admit the things we saw them perform were amazing. I don't know if the lessons they take are a lot of fun though... (but that's of course irrelevant in this country where the individual doesn't matter). 









35. The computer room in the School Children's Palace. Of course no internet access. They have Windows XP though...









36. A performance in the Palace. Really amazing what kids can do if they're trained in the ""right"" way. Of course the performance was a tribute to Kim-Il-Sung and the Worker's Party.









37. We also visited a circus. It consisted mostly of arobatics and those were really amazing. The most interesting thing however was the clown's act: here there made fun of an "American" soldier. Blurry pic, but you get the idea.









Ok, this were the last pics of Pyongyang. But soon I'll post some pics more North-Korean pics, this time about Kaesong and the border with South Korea.


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## waterloo (Aug 9, 2003)

Again thank you very much for posting Vertigo  i love the stations in Pyongyang, they are so luxurious looking. I cant wait to see your pictures around Kaesong and Demilitarized zone.


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## Gatis (Sep 22, 2003)

Beautiful again! Love this thread!
I liked the pictures with people here. And children... These made me remember these stupid "military show-offs" back in Soviet Union which had to be prepared by each class once per year - we trained this stupidity for several months until all the class moved like a group of robots...


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## snake (Nov 27, 2003)

What are they surfing at, SSC?

I thought S.Korean can visit N. Korea, they had a project called ???


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## ArchMadness (Feb 29, 2004)

I bet they just play solitare over and over again  

Again, Vertigo, these are awesome pics.


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## Singidunum (Jul 25, 2004)

now that pic of computers with winxp shows that they are not working on commodores like western propaganda shows.

and the funniest thing from north korea is the flower called - kimjongilia(type of begonia)









again your pics are great and lot of material for UPC.
I love this one:


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## Vertigo (Oct 23, 2002)

Yes, there's indeed such a flower, we read about it in an English language "newspaper". Besides the kimjungilia there's also a kimilsungia.


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## Zuelas (Jul 8, 2004)

Thx for the experience Vertigo 

So, as an American, I'd never be able to visit N Korea?


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## Vertigo (Oct 23, 2002)

> So, as an American, I'd never be able to visit N Korea?


.

Never say never. But you can't visit it right now.


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## LSyd (Aug 31, 2003)

Zuelas said:


> Thx for the experience Vertigo
> 
> So, as an American, I'd never be able to visit N Korea?


not necessarily...i saw a show where a journalist pretended to be a tourist and went.

as a journalism major/military officer, i doubt i'll ever visit ("officially") until reunification, which i'd like to do, having visited Hungary in 1996 and seeing the transformation taking place.

-


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## FM 2258 (Jan 24, 2004)

I want to visit North Korea sometime. I hope it doesn't change by the time I visit. Their communist totalitarian ways seem kinda cool.


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## Vertigo (Oct 23, 2002)

@LSyd: Yes, that would be very interesting. If some major change takes place in the country, I'll visit it again to see the difference. I'm afraid there won't be major changes in the near future there, though...

@FM2258: I don't think "cool" is the right word for a system that let it's citizens suffer so much. It's an interesting and fascinating country for sure, but cool? No.


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## JoseRodolfo (Jul 9, 2003)

That´s so intersting!! Thanks again Vertigo!!! kay:kay:


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## Vertigo (Oct 23, 2002)

Ok all, my last pics from North-Korea. This time from our side trip to the south of the country: the city of Kaesong and the border with South-Korea.

Kaesong is a large city in the south of North-Korea. It has about 300,000 inhabitants. It's special because some historical parts survived the Korean war undamaged; so unlike other North-Korea cities, it has still some parts from before the Korean war. 
Besides, I also found it fascinating to walk around in another city besides Pyongyang. While Pyongyang is really a showcase city, things are different in cities like this. People look more poor and there are almost no cars on the streets, only lots of pedestrians and cyclists. Unfortunately, our guides didn't allow us to make pics on regular streets; although I managed to take a couple (see below).

Kaesong is very close to the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) with South-Korea, an area of 4 kilometers wide (2 km on each side of the border). In fact it is not demilitarized at all; the armies of both countries are standing face to face there, reminding of how the Iron Curtain was in Europe during the Cold War. Very sad that a country is devided like that. 

The most special place is the Joint Security Area (JSA). Here there's no fence on the border, only a very low concrete wall. In theory both countries have the right to maintain the security in all parts of the JSA, but since a couple of incidents both armies now stay on their own side of the border. Right in the middel of the JSA there are a couple of barracks, in which talks used to be held between the two countries. The border goes straight through the barracks.

The visit to the DMZ is something I will never forget. It's such a strange and sad place. A bit scary standing in a place with so much international tension. Also because we were "guarded" all the time by two North-Korean soldiers...

Ok, enough text, here are the pics.

1. The busy "freeway..." between Pyongyang and Kaesong. In fact it also goes to the DMZ. Just before entering the DMZ there's a sign: "Seoul: 70 km". But of course you won't reach Seoul from that road... 









2. The main street of Kaesong.









3. An overview of a historical part of Kaesong.









4. Just a street in Kaesong. 









5. 









6. In the historical part of Kaesong.









7. The entrance gate of the DMZ. Picture taken inside the DMZ, looking out to the northern side. Note the freeway sign just outside the gate. 









8. The Joint Security Area (JSA). The border runs right through the middle of the barracks. The large building on the other side is in South-Korea, I think it's their visitor's center.









9.









10. A North-Korean soldier just off the border









11. Some South-Korean soldiers.









12. Inside one of the barracks in the JSA. The border runs right through the large table. The North-Korean soldiers stand there to prevent us exiting the building on the South-Korean side.









13. And on the freeway, back to Pyongyang. This is my last North-Korean picture. I hope you found them as fascinating as I found visiting this country!


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## John (Sep 11, 2002)

Vertigo said:


> 8. The Joint Security Area (JSA). The border runs right through the middle of the barracks. The large building on the other side is in South-Korea, I think it's their visitor's center.


hey, just a few days ago I watched a South Korean film 'Joint Security Area' by Park Chan-Wook (one of the best S.Korean directors), some of your pictures are just like taken from that film, I think it was filmed in exactly same location , it's a great film, I really recommend it http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0260991/

and thanks for the pictures again kay:


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## Vertigo (Oct 23, 2002)

> hey, just a few days ago I watched a South Korean film 'Joint Security Area' by Park Chan-Wook (one of the best S.Korean directors), some of your pictures are just like taken from that film, I think it was filmed in exactly same location , it's a great film, I really recommend it http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0260991/


Thanks, it sounds like an interesting movie, I'll try to find it! kay:

BTW, I find it very unlikely that North-Korean authorities would allow such a movie to be shot right there. I've not seen the movie, but it seems more likely to me that they rebuilt the JSA somewhere else for that movie... shouldn't be too hard.


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## John (Sep 11, 2002)

Vertigo said:


> Thanks, it sounds like an interesting movie, I'll try to find it! kay:
> 
> BTW, I find it very unlikely that North-Korean authorities would allow such a movie to be shot right there. I've not seen the movie, but it seems more likely to me that they rebuilt the JSA somewhere else for that movie... shouldn't be too hard.


Oh I just made some research and found out that it was shot in Seoul film studio complex 










Anyway in the movie it looked incredibly familiar with your photos. And the movie doesn't really express negative attitudes towards N.Korea what makes it even more interesting to watch and understand what's really going on there.


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## PornStar (Jul 22, 2003)

These soldiers do look pretty serious 
Did they allow you take the pix of them just like that? 
I wonder why those soldiers don't just go to South Korea for a better life(assuming most of the Northern guys are dying to get there, no?), I mean there's no wall!


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## John (Sep 11, 2002)

PornStar said:


> These soldiers do look pretty serious
> Did they allow you take the pix of them just like that?
> I wonder why those soldiers don't just go to South Korea for a better life(assuming most of the Northern guys are dying to get there, no?), I mean there's no wall!


That was exactly my thought when looking at those pictures with the borderguards. 

In his place I'd just run as fast as I can into the S.Korean territory









Although I guess it wouldn't be that easy for them. They're perhaps hypnotised or drugged. Or maybe it was told that their wives and children would be killed if they run to S.korea. Can't think of other reasons what would keep them this way.


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## Singidunum (Jul 25, 2004)

I heard that they were raising flags on the border. Finally at some height south korea gave up 

THANKS FOR THE PICS!!!


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## Vertigo (Oct 23, 2002)

@John: it looks like they recreated it very well! I really want to see that movie.

About those soldiers escaping...:



> Or maybe it was told that their wives and children would be killed if they run to S.korea.


That's the most probable answer. Also, I think North-Korea makes sure the soldiers at such strategic points live a good life compared to the average North-Korean, so there's less desire with those soldiers to escape.

@singidunum: yes, we saw an incredibly tall flagpole on the North Korean side. We were told it was about 150 m high.


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## Singidunum (Jul 25, 2004)

160m!


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## waterloo (Aug 9, 2003)

yes! i have been waiting for your pictures Vertigo  And i must say it was worth waiting~


















so beautiful~It is hard to find a city with traditional Korean style house in South Korea...Well maybe except for Jeonju


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2004)

It looks really scary, I feel sorry for that people.


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## schmidt (Dec 5, 2002)

Now I have some questions too 

Do any of you know if Brazilians are also allowed in North Korea? How did u manage to get into the country? Is it any difficult? I mean, it's such a strict state, everything seems to be really controlled and not flexible.

I would feel REALLY scared if I went to North Korea someday, specially from being a Westerner...

But it seems the guards are allowed into the other side of the border as you could see in the pic inside the barracks, aren't there any problems with that?

And finally, was this one of the pics they wouldn't allow you to take?










Thanks a lot again, this is one of the most interesting threads ever.


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## Chibcha2k (Oct 19, 2002)

its like a horror movie...like 28 days later.... no one on the streets...so desserted...and that monolithic ruin of a hotel...AWESOME!:happy::happy::happy::happy::happy:

look...colombia flag on the board!
we also fighted on that war


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## Vertigo (Oct 23, 2002)

> Do any of you know if Brazilians are also allowed in North Korea? How did u manage to get into the country? Is it any difficult? I mean, it's such a strict state, everything seems to be really controlled and not flexible.


Yes, Brazilians are allowed, except journalists. Entering is not very difficult, if you book a tour through a tour agency (about the only way to enter the country). Most likely, the tour agency will than also arrange a visa, which you have to pick up at the North-Korean embassy in Beijing. At least, that's the way it worked with us. We heard some stories of people being denied a visa for no apparant reason, but we got it without any trouble. 



> I would feel REALLY scared if I went to North Korea someday, specially from being a Westerner...


Well, I wasn't really scared, although it felt a bit claustrophobic, with the guides who were constantly with us. One time we had dinner without the guides and we openly discussed lots of things (in Dutch) about the country... later I started worrying a bit that they may have heard some things, even though I know they won't understand Dutch. It's easy to get paranoid in that country.



> But it seems the guards are allowed into the other side of the border as you could see in the pic inside the barracks, aren't there any problems with that?


That's indeed an interesting thing. When visitors from North-Korea enter the building, they can walk all around the building and North-Korean soldiers guard the door to the South. When visitors from the South-Korean side enter the building, they can also walk around freely and South-Korean soldiers guard the door to the North.

We asked what would happen if visitors would try to enter the building at the same time. They told us, that both sides contact each other when they want visitors to enter the building. So, despite the fact that they are enemies and officially still in war, they communicate with each other about visitor movements in the JSA. I found that a weird and interesting detail.


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## LSyd (Aug 31, 2003)

bizarre man. great pics, what a trip.

-


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## Shafick (Jun 21, 2004)

*Impressive views......!*
kay:


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## RafflesCity (Sep 11, 2002)

:applause:

a very insightful thread with some great pics!


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## Vertigo (Oct 23, 2002)

Thanks all for your nice comments...!


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## Singidunum (Jul 25, 2004)

I 'VE FIGURED IT OUT!

Soldiers wont run because they saw propaganda. The subtitile for the photo of their border soldiers on their website is "Don`t cross this line. US soldiers are only meters away!"

And what they saw for their whole life is this:


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## cicarra (May 29, 2004)

^I can faintly understand how on earth can people possibly believe in that! Have they got no sense at all!?


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## ignoramus (Jun 16, 2004)

Notice how they painted that little girl in the picture crying out for help in desperation...and how the ''EVIL'' americans are going to shoot the girl...

North Korea's Propaganda Industry is really flourishing. I bet poster designers in N.K. earns big bucks...relative to other N.Koreans of course.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

Awesome pics.


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## Vertigo (Oct 23, 2002)

Yes, propaganda also plays a big role of course. But I think people who live in the poor villages and don't have enough to eat, while the goverment claims it's the best country in the world... that they will start to thing for themselves and start to doubt about the propaganda. Same thing for people who have contact with foreign people. But probably many cannot escape, or if they can they won't because of the consequenses that will have for their family members.


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## lindenthaler (Apr 11, 2003)

Vertigo said:


> Yes, propaganda also plays a big role of course. But I think people who live in the poor villages and don't have enough to eat, while the goverment claims it's the best country in the world... that they will start to thing for themselves and start to doubt about the propaganda. Same thing for people who have contact with foreign people. But probably many cannot escape, or if they can they won't because of the consequenses that will have for their family members.


it would be good that you make small website, diary combined with these pictureso we can read it everywhere. Or it would be good idea to ope new section on ssc "Diaries from Travell" where we can read about travells in cities etc. ?


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## Vertigo (Oct 23, 2002)

@individue: I'm in the process of building a web site about this and other journeys. Could take a while before it's online though...


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## Singidunum (Jul 25, 2004)

Look at this website. They have list of many travelouges of NK visitors. I wonder if someone from NK has seen and registered Vertigos pics.
http://www.pyongyangsquare.com/portal/tourism.html


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## Farrapo (Oct 7, 2003)

one of the most interesting threads I ever seen!!! thanks for sharing those great pics with us!!! kay:


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## npinguy (Apr 15, 2004)

John said:


> That was exactly my thought when looking at those pictures with the borderguards.
> 
> In his place I'd just run as fast as I can into the S.Korean territory
> 
> ...



You don't seem to understand.


Do you know WHY the two north korean soldiers stand on the border and look at each other instead of looking towards the border in case the south koreans decide to invade?

Do you know why that is? It's not a weird korean or communist tradition.

It's because if one of the soldiers decides to make a run for it and try to get across the border it's the other one's job to SHOOT HIM. It is part of the established and understood protocol and obviously it's happened before.

Another interesting thing to note about the JSA is that the doors in that meeting building can be locked from both sides by separate keys. As in two separate keys for EACH of the two doors (4 in total)

So when north korean visitors are in the building they look the south door with their key, and when south korean visitors are they look the north door with their key.




Vertigo said:


> 19.



I CAN'T BELIEVE NOBODY ASKED ABOUT THIS YET!!


WHAT....THE HELL....IS THAT????


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## Dr. Dubai (Mar 22, 2004)

that's the tallest building of North Korea, a Hotel:

chekc this site:

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=130967


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## snake (Nov 27, 2003)

npinguy said:


> You don't seem to understand.
> 
> 
> Do you know WHY the two north korean soldiers stand on the border and look at each other instead of looking towards the border in case the south koreans decide to invade?
> ...


I heard that kind of stories too, even you are a tourist, if you try to cross that line, say from north to south you would shot dead by south, and if you cross south to north, you will be shot dead by north immediately right on that spot. So the tourists were always told there rule of #1, never ever try to do that and there is no joking about that.

But good news for Chinese tourists is that Chinese can visit both North and South quite easily so don't need to risk lofe to see both sides.


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## Singidunum (Jul 25, 2004)

I beleive that they were born and listened whole life the worst propaganda about SK and USA. They never got a single true info. So why would they want to run somewhere they will slaughter them according to the story they listened for their WHOLE life.


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## snake (Nov 27, 2003)

Singidunum said:


> I beleive that they were born and listened whole life the worst propaganda about SK and USA. They never got a single true info. So why would they want to run somewhere they will slaughter them according to the story they listened for their WHOLE life.


You are so smart huh, better next time you cross that line by yourself to show to those brainwashed N. Koreans how easy it is. :bash:


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## npinguy (Apr 15, 2004)

snake said:


> I heard that kind of stories too, even you are a tourist, if you try to cross that line, say from north to south you would shot dead by south, and if you cross south to north, you will be shot dead by north immediately right on that spot. So the tourists were always told there rule of #1, never ever try to do that and there is no joking about that.
> 
> But good news for Chinese tourists is that Chinese can visit both North and South quite easily so don't need to risk lofe to see both sides.



no no. You try to go from the north to the south and the NORTH soldiers will shoot you.


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## Singidunum (Jul 25, 2004)

why would they shoot a tourist?

it hasn`t happened before. I guess its like any border and that they just tell you politely to move back and if you don`t oh well ...


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## snake (Nov 27, 2003)

Singidunum said:


> why would they shoot a tourist?
> 
> it hasn`t happened before. I guess its like any border and that they just tell you politely to move back and if you don`t oh well ...


How do you know it hasn`t happened before? It is not like any other border!


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## npinguy (Apr 15, 2004)

They probably would NOT shoot a tourist because then they'd have an international incident on their hands.

But you can bet the soldiers would shoot each other.


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## Vertigo (Oct 23, 2002)

> But you can bet the soldiers would shoot each other.


Right. 

But the guy in that pic is seriously close to the border. When he takes one step, he's across. And from that moment the North Koreans can't shoot him anymore, because shooting someone in South Korea would be a hell of an incident.

So there's more to it than the thread of being shot dead. I think's it's both propaganda and fear for family members.



> So the tourists were always told there rule of #1, never ever try to do that and there is no joking about that.


No one told us that we couldn't cross the line. I think they suppose you're not stupid enough to do such a thing.


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## turboskyline (Feb 17, 2004)

Hey Vertigo...... thank you soo much for the amazing pictures....I have never seen so many high quality pics of NK... It looks so weird yet so adictively facinating at the same time and yet it is very sad as well. When I visit Asia soon it is a top priority of mine to visit there. If you don't mind me asking, was it expensive? I have heard it can be very expensive because not so many people go and everything is through only a few certain travel agencies and such...oh and also...my gf has visited there and she said that all the normal north korean people whenever they talk they have to say something like "praise our great leader Kim il Sung" or something like that did you hear this?


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## Vertigo (Oct 23, 2002)

> If you don't mind me asking, was it expensive? I have heard it can be very expensive because not so many people go and everything is through only a few certain travel agencies and such...


Right. It is rather expensive. Mostly because you'll need two full-time guides and a driver, even if you're just travelling with two persons like we did. We payed about 1000 euros for a five day tour (three full days in the country). This included everything: the Beijing-Pyongyang trains ride (and back), the hotels, the food, drinks, entrance fees, the guides, the driver, transport, etc.

Could be cheaper if you go with a large group though. 



> my gf has visited there and she said that all the normal north korean people whenever they talk they have to say something like "praise our great leader Kim il Sung" or something like that did you hear this?


I heard less praising of the leaders than I expected. Of course no critisism, but they weren't talking about the leaders all the time.

We didn't speak many North-Koreans though... in fact as a tourists you only speak to your guides. In the train to Pyongyang we happened to share a compartment with some North-Koreans, who were nice to talk to. We steered clear of political themes though, for (our and their) safety.

On the way back from Pyongyang we spoke a foreign diplomat living in North-Korea. That was very interesting, because he could speak freely about his impressions in the country.


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