# Lively Warsaw



## Herbie Fully Loaded (Aug 28, 2009)

Nice update!


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## Shep (Dec 1, 2009)

Flawerwell said:


> Simply, Poland isn't such religious as you think


That's true. The most conservative and religious people are old-dated ones, who has been brainwashed by some sick priest (And his radio station). Fortunatelly this group is getting less numberous, and there are more and more atheists, especially the youth.


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## Flawerwell (Jun 20, 2009)




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## Wielki Gmach (Dec 22, 2008)

Flawerwell said:


> I prefer good European law than stupid polish law.


good european law about cucumber and bananas is very smart and remeber snail is a fish because ue says that :banana::lol:


btw
where is place from last picture




Flawerwell said:


> Simply, Poland isn't such religious as you think


:yes:


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## Flawerwell (Jun 20, 2009)

Wielki Gmach said:


> good european law about cucumber and bananas is very smart and remeber snail is a fish because ue says that :banana::lol:
> 
> 
> btw
> ...


Yeah, sometimes EU makes too much stupid regulations. 
And that place is near a crossing Jana Pawła II St. with Elektoralna St. a view from north to south.

I don't want to make off topic, but for people who think that Warsaw is conservative and backwarded - a poll made by Newsweek in June 2010 in Warsaw: 66% pro gay civil unions, 27% against; 49% pro Europride (7% going to attend), 25% against; 86% pro homoerotic exhibition in National Museum, 8% against (rest neutral or don't know). So don't tell that we are conservative 

source: http://www.newsweek.pl/artykuly/sekcje/spoleczenstwo/warszawa-przyjazna-gejom,60220,1


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## rychlik (Feb 14, 2008)

Shep said:


> That's true. The most conservative and religious people are old-dated ones, who has been brainwashed by some sick priest (And his radio station). Fortunatelly this group is getting less numberous, and there are more and more atheists, especially the youth.


I know this is not a place for religious discussions but I'm a young Pole in Canada and see nothing wrong with being semi-religious. I hope Poland doesn't become brain washed by the western Europeans into thinking Christianity is bad and that Poland should become another cookie cutter atheist Euro country. That would be the saddest of all. Lastly, just because gay life is not part of the mainstream in Poland does not make it a backwards country. The culture is not at that stage yet. What's next? Women should be *against* giving birth to children? Then Europe will really die out. Being *too* liberal is not always good. 

Now, let'e enjoy the pics.


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## Flawerwell (Jun 20, 2009)

rychlik said:


> I know this is not a place for religious discussions but I'm a young Pole in Canada and see nothing wrong with being semi-religious. I hope Poland doesn't become brain washed by the western Europeans into thinking Christianity is bad and that Poland should become another cookie cutter atheist Euro country. That would be the saddest of all. Lastly, just because gay life is not part of the mainstream in Poland does not make it a backwards country. The culture is not at that stage yet. What's next? Women should be *against* giving birth to children? Then Europe will really die out. Being *too* liberal is not always good.


You live in Canada, so maybe you don't know the situation in Poland. Catholic church got all lands which was stolen by communists and much more - church even expelled schools or poor-houses to sell buildings and got money. Priests break in a politics and make politicians to do decisions even when most people are against. And of course church tell with a hate about atheists, women, gays or all people who don't support priests. The same situation was in Italy, Ireland, Portugal, Spain... so don't be surprised that European people lost their faith. In America people treat the religion personally, in Poland religion is public. When I asked my 5 friends if they are catholics, they said "yes". Then I asked them if they believe in Immaculate Conception, Last Judgment and our resurrection they started laughing and said that it's stupid. So that's look the faith of most young Poles here (officially about 90% catholics, but how many really?).


























































































The interion is in a Royal Castle (totally destroyed during II world war and rebuilt by communists). It's not a building on the photo below (it's a Palace on the Water in a Bath Garden, it survived the war without damages).


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## Boogie (Jun 17, 2006)

Flawerwell said:


> I don't want to make off topic, but for people who think that Warsaw is conservative and backwarded - a poll made by Newsweek in June 2010 in Warsaw: 66% pro gay civil unions, 27% opposed; 42% pro Europride, 25% opposed; 86% pro homoerotic exhibition in National Museum, 8% opposed (rest neutral or don't know). So don't tell that we are conservative


Unfortunately right wing government do not keep up with society changes...

Very nice photos. Many well known places.


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## Urbanista1 (Sep 13, 2006)

I agree, Poland is not that simple to define. I'm Polish Catholic but anti-Radio Maria and people like Kaczynski who live in the past and am for tolerance, progress, gay marriage etc. I actually think Canada and Poland are about the same in levels of tolerance although immigration of different ethnicities/races is a recent phenomenon that might time in Poland as a whole. When it comes to sex Poles can be pretty radical left wing : )

Looking at these pics, it makes me think that Warsaw represents very well the complexity that is Poland.


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## Tomesh (Mar 10, 2005)

Flawerwell said:


> You live in Canada, so maybe you don't know the situation in Poland. Catholic church got all lands which was stolen by communists and much more - church even expelled schools or poor-houses to sell buildings and got money. Priests break in a politics and make politicians to do decisions even when most people are against. And of course church tell with a hate about atheists, women, gays or all people who don't support priests. The same situation was in Italy, Ireland, Portugal, Spain... so don't be surprised that European people lost their faith. In America people treat the religion personally, in Poland religion is public. When I asked my 5 friends if they are catholics, they said "yes". Then I asked them if they believe in Immaculate Conception, Last Judgment and our resurrection they started laughing and said that it's stupid. So that's look the faith of most young Poles here (officially about 90% catholics, but how many really?).


:blahblah:

Maybe its best to stick to photos relevant to the title. We want to see *lively*!!






Urbanista1 said:


> I agree, Poland is *not that simple to define*. I'm Polish Catholic but anti-Radio Maria and people like Kaczynski who live in the past and am for tolerance, progress, gay marriage etc. I actually think Canada and Poland are about the same in levels of tolerance although immigration of different ethnicities/races is a recent phenomenon that might time in Poland as a whole. When it comes to sex Poles can be pretty radical left wing : )
> 
> Looking at these pics, it makes me think that Warsaw represents very well the complexity that is Poland


In the end such issues are complex anywhere, whether its Italy, Russia, Turkey or Bulgaria


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## euromerican (Oct 17, 2009)

rychlik said:


> I know this is not a place for religious discussions but I'm a young Pole in Canada and see nothing wrong with being semi-religious. I hope Poland doesn't become brain washed by the western Europeans into thinking Christianity is bad and that Poland should become another cookie cutter atheist Euro country. That would be the saddest of all. Lastly, just because gay life is not part of the mainstream in Poland does not make it a backwards country. The culture is not at that stage yet. What's next? Women should be *against* giving birth to children? Then Europe will really die out. Being *too* liberal is not always good.
> 
> Now, let'e enjoy the pics.


Agreed! I'm Polish but born and raised in the United States. Seeing Poland end up like Western Europe would be horrible. It is possible to be rich and religious. LOOK AT ISRAEL! Try telling Jews to be less religious and more liberal. They know that if they give into liberal pressure more and more Arabs will enter Israel and have tons of kids. It is common that if a country becomes less religious (Christian) then other religions fill in the gap. Look at Beligium. I wouldn't be surprised if in 50 years half the population will be Muslim. The Muslims don't give a SHIT about liberal crap. Just look at this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv85W0Nrj4Y

Please Poland, don't give in to Western European pressure! Don't become like them! I have met hundreds of people here in New York that tell me how they admire the fact that Poland could be both religious and increasingly wealthy. POLAND, STAY TRUE TO YOUR ROOTS!

(And no, I'm not some "Jesus freak", but I cannot deny that Christianity has kept Poland solid and united through the worst and best of times.)


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## Flawerwell (Jun 20, 2009)

I don't have more photos. Next will be after 17th of July. 

It's a little bit hard to show "lively" Warsaw because very wide pavements prevent formation a crowd, so streets usually look so empty. I should take photos near metro station or shopping malls - there always is a crowd.

Poland is in Europe, no in America and if you want to stop atheism here, you should change the church. Older people remember church fighting with communist regime, so they are more religious. But my generation (I was born in 1992) remember only one church - rich, arrogant, bossy and hypocritical. Really wise priest Tischner said: "Nobody lost faith because of reading Marx, but many people lost faith because of meeting priests". The church will make Poland atheist.


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## Herbie Fully Loaded (Aug 28, 2009)

These last pics were amazing, i'm really waiting to see more .


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## Shep (Dec 1, 2009)

Flawerwell said:


> "Nobody lost faith because of reading Marx, but many people lost faith because of meeting priests".


That's exactly what I also wanted to quote! 

I completly disagree with you fellows, whereas it's hard not to agree with the one of the most famous futurologists - Alvin Toffler. According to Toffler, we 
are the last generation of the old civilization and at the same time first generation of a new civilization of XXI century. A civilization where the most important wealth is knowledge and science!

In my deep conviction, XXI century should be the age of reason, not religion.
There should be a thick line between church and a country - while in Poland (But for example in the US as well) two of this institutions permeate each other.

Country in its principle was supposed to be secular.
That's what also Founding Fathers of the United States thought. For example Thomas Jefferson.
They would have also been terrified, If they had seen what happens in "their states".

George W. Bush asked if he recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists, answered:
_"I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots."_

This issue of wrong distinguishing patriotism and being religious is very common to misunderstand, also in Poland - what we can perceive on the example of Kaczynski's electorate.

To sum up, In my mind, being atheist is a really high value. It testifies about being rational and about thinking logically - what are for me core values.

I truly admire countries like Czech Republic and Estonia - which are the least religious ones in the europe, but also other protestant counties like Sweden, where there is not too many people who believe that "there is a god").
It's also really interesting that those two countries are one of the richer ones of the former eastern bloc. 

I also agree with a theory of Max Weber showed in his book "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism". He claimed that sometimes in the development of capitalistic economy, the greater role than material factors played values of protestant religion (sense of hard working, saving up, thrift, moderation and self-esteem).
I would also like to point out, that all protestant countries in the europe are not really religious.

He was also afraid that through going to rationalizing regulations of all spheres of social life capitalistic system carries a risk to a human spirituality.
And although he was a believer, he was right. We can choose either science or religion.
The choice is yours.

I also strongly recommend you program of Proffesor Richard Dawkins called "The root of all evil", which you can YouTube.

@EOT
Photos are really amazing, that's Warsaw which I like. :cheers:
Waiting for more. 




Yours, Shep.


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## euromerican (Oct 17, 2009)

Shep said:


> That's exactly what I also wanted to quote!
> 
> I completly disagree with you fellows, whereas it's hard not to agree with the one of the most famous futurologists - Alvin Toffler. According to Toffler, we
> are the last generation of the old civilization and at the same time first generation of a new civilization of XXI century. A civilization where the most important wealth is knowledge and science!
> ...


Oh, so you admire the Czech Republic? I know tons of Czechs living all over the North East. In fact, my neighbors are Czech. You know what's funny? Almost all of them were brought up as Atheists or with no exposure to religion, but all of their children are baptized and enrolled in Catholic schools! They even bring their kids to Church on Sunday so they can have what their parents coouldn't! Shows you how different American, Canadian, etc, Czechs are than the ones still living in Europe. Now that I think about it, thank God I live in the U.S.! All I can say is you would hate living here. Everyone from the President, to the Mayors and Politicians of New York, Miami, Los Angeles, Chicago, etc are religious! God Bless America.

Oh, and Estonia? Don't get too excited. Most people on this side of the Atlantic can't even point it out on the map. :lol:


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## rychlik (Feb 14, 2008)

To all Poles fed up with Christianity in Poland, travel or live overseas for a while and see if you like it. 
I never understood one thing and maybe this can be cleared up. Almost all western European nations have a separation of church and state. It's not cool to be religious now a days (no crucifixes!). Fair enough. But why do they invite immigrants from mostly Islamic countries where the citizens are *extremely* religious? And they get everything that they want (mosques going up everywhere). You end up with a p'ussy, passive population and one that would kill for their religion. Does anyone see any problems here?


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## euromerican (Oct 17, 2009)

rychlik said:


> To all Poles fed up with Christianity in Poland, travel or live overseas for a while and see if you like it.
> I never understood one thing and maybe this can be cleared up. Almost all western European nations have a separation of church and state. It's not cool to be religious now a days (no crucifixes!). Fair enough. But why do they invite immigrants from mostly Islamic countries where the citizens are *extremely* religious? And they get everything that they want (mosques going up everywhere). You end up with a p'ussy, passive population and one that would kill for their religion. Does anyone see any problems here?


I don't get it either!!! Most of the Polish forumers have never been to the States or Canada so they don't understand. They look up to Estonia and Sweden, which are countries most Americans or Canadians could give two shits about! :lol:


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## rychlik (Feb 14, 2008)

euromerican said:


> I don't get it either!!! Most of the Polish forumers have never been to the States or Canada so they don't understand. They look up to Estonia and Sweden, which are countries most Americans or Canadians could give two shits about! :lol:


Exactly. One thing to add- Poland is one of the most successful, if not the most successful post communist countries. Other struggling nations should be looking up to it. They were the only country to avoid recession! The *difference* in standard of living for a Pole, Czech and Estonian is not very significant.


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## Shep (Dec 1, 2009)

euromerican said:


> Oh, so you admire the Czech Republic? I know tons of Czechs living all over the North East. In fact, my neighbors are Czech. You know what's funny? Almost all of them were brought up as Atheists or with no exposure to religion, but all of their children are baptized and enrolled in Catholic schools! They even bring their kids to Church on Sunday so they can have what their parents coouldn't!


_"If you have the delusion
that you're Napoleon, it must be fairly a lonely feeling
because nobody else agrees with you. Your faith that you are Napoleon
needs a lot of shoring up. But these people here, thousands of people all
have exactly the same delusion, and that must give wonderful reinforcement to their faith." _ - Richard Dawkins, The root of all evil.

That's how it works. Of course it's easier to live in a conviction that there is a God, but isn't bracing truth better than false hope?



euromerican said:


> All I can say is you would hate living here. Everyone from the President, to the Mayors and Politicians of New York, Miami, Los Angeles, Chicago, etc are religious!


Oh, be serious. That's nothing wrong with it, in Poland the situation looks exactly the same. And why should I hate living there? I have nothing against if someone is a believer or not, it's his own choice. I just think that we should separate church and the state.



euromerican said:


> Oh, and Estonia? Don't get too excited. Most people on this side of the Atlantic can't even point it out on the map. :lol:


They shouldn't be proud then. lol

Generally, I think that you probably didn't understand my statement at all, because your arguments don't even refer to mine ones.

The human mind is extremely susceptible to hallucinations. In my mind, we should reject this primitive superstitions...



Kind regards, Shep.


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## euromerican (Oct 17, 2009)

Shep said:


> _"If you have the delusion
> that you're Napoleon, it must be fairly a lonely feeling
> because nobody else agrees with you. Your faith that you are Napoleon
> needs a lot of shoring up. But these people here, thousands of people all
> ...


Not even gunna bother with your "enlightenment" caus this conversation is gunna go on forever. Let's get back to Warsaw.


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## Flawerwell (Jun 20, 2009)

Fortunately Poland (after 1989) had twice atheist President. And you really don't understand Polish reality! I don't bother because of religious people, but because of aggressive influence of church on government. 
- People want lessons about all religion in schools, church wants to teach only catholic - we have only catholic lessons.
- People want sexual education like in Western Europe, church wants no sexual education - we have only poor substitute of that education (fortunately we learn about anti-conception, not like in US only abstinence!)
- In a case of in vitro fertilization church uses really hateful language calling kids born thanks to this method as "kids without soul" or "Frankenstein's kids". For all people, who disagree with church, bishops said "They can only bark". Antisemitism among priests is nothing special. A priests in my aunt's village refused coming to dieing person because... the priest didn't want to damage his expensive car (the road was bad). 
Of course all people (atheists and non-catholic too) have to pay for religion lessons, social securities for priests and catholic universities. So how can I respect church if it steals my money and overrides democracy to force its decisions. For my peers church is one of the worst institutions in the country.


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## euromerican (Oct 17, 2009)

Flawerwell said:


> Fortunately Poland (after 1989) had twice atheist President. And you really don't understand Polish reality! I don't bother because of religious people, but because of aggressive influence of church on government.
> - People want lessons about all religion in schools, church wants to teach only catholic - we have only catholic lessons.
> - People want sexual education like in Western Europe, church wants no sexual education - we have only poor substitute of that education (fortunately we learn about anti-conception, not like in US only abstinence!)
> - In a case of in vitro fertilization church uses really hateful language calling kids born thanks to this method as "kids without soul" or "Frankenstein's kids". For all people, who disagree with church, bishops said "They can only bark". Antisemitism among priests is nothing special. A priests in my aunt's village refused coming to dieing person because... the priest didn't want to damage his expensive car (the road was bad).
> Of course all people (atheists and non-catholic too) have to pay for religion lessons, social securities for priests and catholic universities. So how can I respect church if it steals my money and overrides democracy to force its decisions. For my peers church is one of the worst institutions in the country.


1. What other religious lessons do you want? How to be a good Muslim? Please!

2. Sex education in Poland is fine. Trust me, I live in the United States and our sex-ed is waaaaaaaaaay behind yours. You learn about anti-conception. What more do you want?

3. As for in vitro fertilization: I agree, the Church should stay out of that. It's a personal choice and gives a woman that wants a baby hope. I think this will change in Poland tho.

4. "Antisemitism among priests is nothing special. A priests in my aunt's village refused coming to dieing person because... the priest didn't want to damage his expensive car (the road was bad)."

That's ant-semitic? And just caus that preist was an ass, all preists are? There are THOUSANDS of good priests that would do anything to help others. They go on missions to third world countries, give money to parishioners in need, and fight for the community. There are always gunna be rotten apples in a basket, so don't say "all preists are bad, selfish, and rape little boys", because that shows your uneducated and ignorant.

5. If you have a problem with your taxes going to religious education then why do you live in a country that is uber-Catholic? Seriously, move to Sweden where your taxes will go towards abortions, "intergrating" immigrants from the Middle East, and paying for their 10 children each to attend Muslim daycares. You choice


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## Flawerwell (Jun 20, 2009)

History of church in America is completely different than in Europe, because in US since the beginning there was freedom of religion, in Europe church was ruling. It's the most important thing, I think. And in America small protestant churches have really engaged members. In Poland for many people going to church is rather only tradition. I don't know any person, who pray before dinner, what is popular in US. So more possible is that Poland will be similar to Ireland or Portugal, not to US.

According to Muslims - have you seen the new mosque, which is now being built in Warsaw for 10 000 believers? 









http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/3/7599/z7599223X.jpg

Also hindu people (especially immigrants from India) will have their own temple, so Warsaw is becoming more interesting place. In the end of August there is a festival of different cultures and immigrants, I'll also post the photos.









http://warszawa.gazeta.pl/warszawa/51,34889,7935883.html?i=1


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## euromerican (Oct 17, 2009)

Flawerwell said:


> History of church in America is completely different than in Europe, because in US since the beginning there was freedom of religion, in Europe church was ruling. It's the most important thing, I think. And in America small protestant churches have really engaged members. In Poland for many people going to church is rather only tradition. I don't know any person, who pray before dinner, what is popular in US. So more possible is that Poland will be similar to Ireland or Portugal, not to US.
> 
> According to Muslims - have you seen the new mosque, which is now being built in Warsaw for 10 000 believers?
> 
> ...


Ireland and Portugal are fine examples, modern but still quite traditional. And please post pictures from the festival, I would like to see those.


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## ja_kubek2 (Dec 23, 2008)

euromerican said:


> 2. Sex education in Poland is fine. Trust me, I live in the United States and our sex-ed is waaaaaaaaaay behind yours. You learn about anti-conception.


it show, that you know nothing about sexual education in poland. i still go to school in poland and i had only 2 (!) lessons about this. one lesson was only for girls (i don't know what they did) and on second lesson teacher said about illnesses (HIV, AIDS etc). and nothing mouch. so i thing that isn't sufficient.


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## Flawerwell (Jun 20, 2009)

ja_kubek2 said:


> it show, that you know nothing about sexual education in poland. i still go to school in poland and i had only 2 (!) lessons about this. one lesson was only for girls (i don't know what they did) and on second lesson teacher said about illnesses (HIV, AIDS etc). and nothing mouch. so i thing that isn't sufficient.


You had a bad teacher, because I learnt about all anti-conception methods and abortion.

Ireland is even more conservative than Poland, because they have more strict law about abortion and even... divorces. I heard that it's really hard to get diverce in Ireland.

To end this off-topic I must say, that Poland isn't really bad, because my generation is much different that our parents. I bet that Poland for ten years will be a very nice place to live. I'll post photos of the festival of course after the event. Next time I'll focus on crowd on the streets, because it's the weakest part of my photos - I must admit that I usually show empty pavements. And of course new buildings - in June started construction of 160 metres skyscraper and I must take photo of the new temples, when they will be finished.


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## rychlik (Feb 14, 2008)

euromerican said:


> 1. What other religious lessons do you want? How to be a good Muslim? Please!
> 
> 2. Sex education in Poland is fine. Trust me, I live in the United States and our sex-ed is waaaaaaaaaay behind yours. You learn about anti-conception. What more do you want?
> 
> ...


Excellent points. I always say this that Poles do not know how lucky they really are. I just wish Poland (and Canada too) would get better in soccer. :cheers:

NOW, concerning the Muslim mosque (which is also a cultural center) and the Hindu temple: I hope this is not a sign of things to come. This is how this c'rap starts. One temple here, another one there. Before you know it you are France or Germany or worse- Londonistan  How do Poles feel about full on immigration? To the best of my knowledge, Poland is not encouraging immigration into their country and they are not yet a refugee country.


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## Flawerwell (Jun 20, 2009)

rychlik said:


> Excellent points. I always say this that Poles do not know how lucky they really are. I just wish Poland (and Canada too) would get better in soccer. :cheers:
> 
> NOW, concerning the Muslim mosque (which is also a cultural center) and the Hindu temple: I hope this is not a sign of things to come. This is how this c'rap starts. One temple here, another one there. Before you know it you are France or Germany or worse- Londonistan  How do Poles feel about full on immigration? To the best of my knowledge, Poland is not encouraging immigration into their country and they are not yet a refugee country.


Poland is a refugee country for Chechen people, because according to new EU law refugees can stay in the first country, which they come into. Poland is on the eastern border of EU... And now Warsaw is full of Vietnamese immigrants. 
Polish law isn't liberal for immigrants, but situation will have to change, because of decline of population and more retired people. I heard that Muslim League is going to build mosques also in Poznań and Łódź, they have just bought a ground and project. Another mosque is being built in Białystok.


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## Elvenking (Jul 22, 2008)

I don't think that beeing religious, patriotic and conservative is something to be ashamed of so mark, that these opinions are yours, not everybody agrees.

And... wasn't this thread about pics of Warsaw? :dunno:


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## euromerican (Oct 17, 2009)

Flawerwell said:


> Poland is a refugee country for Chechen people, because according to new EU law refugees can stay in the first country, which they come into. Poland is on the eastern border of EU... And now Warsaw is full of Vietnamese immigrants.
> Polish law isn't liberal for immigrants, but situation will have to change, because of decline of population and more retired people. I heard that Muslim League is going to build mosques also in Poznań and Łódź, they have just bought a ground and project. Another mosque is being built in Białystok.


You just seem waaaaaaaaaay to happy about all of this! Do me a favor and leave Tarnobrzeg and spend a month in London (and not tourist London, but where people really live). The moment you come back to Poland you will kiss the ground!


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## Jedrzej (Dec 25, 2005)

Flawerwell said:


> Poland is a refugee country for Chechen people, because according to new EU law refugees can stay in the first country, which they come into. Poland is on the eastern border of EU... And now Warsaw is full of Vietnamese immigrants.
> Polish law isn't liberal for immigrants, but situation will have to change, because of decline of population and more retired people. I heard that Muslim League is going to build mosques also in Poznań and Łódź, they have just bought a ground and project. Another mosque is being built in Białystok.


I must say that I thought the same as you few years ago. That Poland should be more multiethnic etc. But then I went to the UK for long holidays after matura and saw that it's not that nice. These people are very different from us and they do not really have positive influence on the society. Instead they try to highlight that they are the best in everything while mostly they are very uneducated people. It's quite hard to put it into words. I think that Poland should be open for Ukrainians, Belarussians or other people from Europe but not really for people from India or Pakistan. 

And about mosque in Białystok. It is not made for arabs but for tatars - people who live in this land for centuries and for me it's peferctly ok.


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## Herbie Fully Loaded (Aug 28, 2009)

More pics, please!


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## rychlik (Feb 14, 2008)

Flawerwell said:


> Poland is a refugee country for Chechen people, because according to new EU law refugees can stay in the first country, which they come into. Poland is on the eastern border of EU... And now Warsaw is full of Vietnamese immigrants.
> Polish law isn't liberal for immigrants, but situation will have to change, because of decline of population and more retired people. I heard that Muslim League is going to build mosques also in Poznań and Łódź, they have just bought a ground and project. Another mosque is being built in Białystok.


You exagerate. I was in Warsaw in '07. Saw only a few Vietnamese and Asians + one African lady. Immigrants have not yet taken over Warsaw. Come to Toronto and see real multiculturalism. You seem suspiciously a little too "mosque happy". Why? 
I think most Poles that left for England will eventually come back. This is one way for Poland not to become a refugee/immigrant nation and actually produce children so the culture does not start dying out. Be responsible. 
NOTE: one of the safest and most productive societies in the world is the Japanese society. Funny enough their country does not allow full scale immigration from Africa/South East Asia. Can you explain why? Maybe they are smarter than Europeans 
Feel free to show us ethnic neighbourhoods in Warsaw.


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## Jedrzej (Dec 25, 2005)

^^ I don't know how it is about Japan, but isn't it because they literally don't have enough space? There is far too much people at the moment there, so I guess that they simply can't find space for new ones.


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## rychlik (Feb 14, 2008)

^^
Absolutely not true. Japan currently has one of the fastest declining populations in the world. Also they're one of the oldest nations, as in they have a lot of seniors living longer than ever before. If there are other nationalities working there, then they are other Asian groups. I believe Islam is almost non-existent in Japan. They know mixing would not work so they do not bother. They're smarter I guess. :cheers:


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## euromerican (Oct 17, 2009)

rychlik said:


> ^^
> Absolutely not true. Japan currently has one of the fastest declining populations in the world. Also they're one of the oldest nations, as in they have a lot of seniors living longer than ever before. If there are other nationalities working there, then they are other Asian groups. I believe Islam is almost non-existent in Japan. They know mixing would not work so they do not bother. They're smarter I guess. :cheers:


100% true. That's why Japanese art, food, culture, etc. is so different than that of the rest of the world. It's not ruined by outside influences. They never wanted immigrants, still don't, and never will. Heck, good for them!


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## Flawerwell (Jun 20, 2009)

rychlik said:


> You exagerate. I was in Warsaw in '07. Saw only a few Vietnamese and Asians + one African lady. Immigrants have not yet taken over Warsaw.


This year in downtown I was passing Asian person per each 5 minutes. I dont know which part of Warsaw you visited. And were you on Jarmark Europa?


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## Deo (Jun 20, 2006)

Flawerwell said:


> ...
> BTW, 17th of July in Warsaw will be *Europride* (European LGBT parade, each year in different city) so I'll also took some photos. Of course all people are welcome to have some fun


I'm not against gays and lesbians, but the name of this 'show' is too much 4me ...

PS - 'Our EuroPride will be held 09-18 July 2010 in Warsaw. It will be the first, and probably the biggest, EuroPride in *Eastern* Europe (Warsaw - *Cental* Europe!!!!!!! - Deo) ever. Our motto is “Liberty, Equality, Tolerance”.'










Program:

9 July - Official Opening of the EuroPride 2010
2 July - Opening of the Film Festival
9 - 18 July - "Ars **** Erotica". For the first time in Poland. Exhibition at the National Museum
2 - 18 July - Film Festival
9 - 18 July - Pride House
9 - 18 July - Exhibitions
15 July - Boy George DJ's in M25
15 July - Trade Unions Conference OPZZ
15 - 16 July - 3rd International GLBT Business Leader Forum
16 July - L-World
16 July - Press conference with the participation of politicians
16 July - London Gay Men's Chorus and Stockholm Gaykör concert - Sala Kongresowa (Palace of Culture and Science - Congress Hall)
16 July - Hiacynt Tolerance Award - Gala
*17 July - Parade*
17 July - Official after parade concert
16-18 July - Pride Park (family picnic begins on Friday and lasts until Sunday)
http://www.gayguidepoland.pl/europride-2010?gclid=CLq7q-yT66ICFQM9ZgodjlxWdA


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## Flawerwell (Jun 20, 2009)

THIS WEEKEND WARSAW WAS REALLY LIVELY!

First EuroPride in Central&Eastern Europe took place in Warsaw 17th July 2010. I must admit that I was a little bit scared. But everything was better than I expected. My lovely city never disappointed me 

Before parade there was many connected events. I caught some pictures of lively Warsaw (no more empty streets like in my recent pictures!). So, welcome in a 1-week gay capital of Europe.









One view on downtown. I very like this picture - it shows colourful and happy face of the city.









One day before parade there was organised a dance lesson for homosexual couples. It was held on Krakowskie Przedmieście (main representative street).


















The weather was very hot. City extended some water for everyone who wants to cool. 









Next there was a free walking with a guide to visit all important to LGBT people places in Warsaw and get to know about famous Polish gays as a writers Jarosław Iwaszkiewicz, Witold Gombrowicz or Maria Konopnicka.









Of course it's almost impossible to visit Warsaw without meeting monumental architecture - that's I love there.



























The city grows everyday.









Most popular gay club, but very hard to enter (extremely strict door police) - many Polish celebrities boast of going there.









Next walking was organised by Jewish communisty in Warsaw and it was about connection between homophobia and antisemitism. In the photo: the only synagogue in Warsaw, which survived 2nd world war.









For the end of the day in a cultural centre there was organised a sabbath supper with a free entry.


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## Flawerwell (Jun 20, 2009)

The route of the parade was perfect to see the heart of communist architecture in Warsaw - so-called "District of Ministries". But firstly:

The weather was very very hot. The parade had about 10 000 participants. There was of course also some protests with about 100 participants. In a parade took part left-wing politicians and some famous people. Thousands of Warsaw's inhabitants were staying on a parade's route and smiling, taking photos or greeting us.









The parade starts near Blue Skyscraper - one of the first skyscrapers in Warsaw. Before this building there was a Great Synagogue (demolished by Nazis).




































A professor from Polish Academy of Sciences and his wife.


















Many people were waving and greeting from windows and balconies.









Architecture of "District of Ministries"


















Socialist-realist "Grand Hotel" - an exclusive hotel (during communist regime) for politicians and foreign (mostly from USSR) guests. Now also hotel.









Ministry of Agriculture


















The end of parade on Constitution Square. During all day was only one accident - some right-wing extremists were throwing eggs - they were fastly arrested by police. The reactions of ordinary people were much more better than I expected. Warsaw can be proud!

Tomorrow I'll show very lively Old Town during Sunday smooth weather.


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