# Statistical Results of "Top 10 best world skyline" thread...



## MattSal (Dec 24, 2004)

Hi everyone! There was recently a thread, "Top 10 best world skyline" that amassed 15 pages of people posting. I decided to take the information in this thread and create a statistical analysis of it!

The original thread:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1533122

This was an effort to show SSC what their _actual_ top 10 skylines were without the burden of a poll to limit choices. Thanks to jmbill for the original thread.

A couple notes about the procedure:

Each vote for a city was counted as just one vote in the appropriate rank (1-10) given by the original poster.

Ties were allowed and counted as one vote for each city mentioned in a tie at that rank (e.g. two cities tied for 6th both received a 6th place vote).

To increase accuracy, certain posts were discounted if they had a noticeable regional or typological bias (e.g. only listing Brazilian cities or medieval European skylines). I realize this might be a controversial decision, but this is _Skyscraper_City, so I went with lists that rated skylines based on some metric of highrises/density/etc. with a worldwide scope of view.

Approximately 90 lists were processed, resulting in 914 votes cast and 46 cities receiving at least one vote.

I did not cast any votes myself.

A couple notes about the results, which are posted below:

RANK refers to the largest-to-smallest rank of the cities by their SCORE.

CITY is the name of the city. Skylines part of the same city/metro area were generally included under the same entry (e.g. Manila/Makati).

TALLY shows the number of votes cast for each city in each rank 1-10.

AVG is the average rank of all votes cast for each city.

TOTAL is the total number of votes of any rank cast for each city.

SCORE is the aggregate of the ranks, with 1st counting for 10 points, 2nd for 9 points, 3rd for 8 points, etc.

The COLOR of each line refers to its regional location. Blue represents the Americas, Yellow Europe, Red Asia, and Green the Middle East.

Without further ado, here are the results:









There are some really interesting trends to consider after looking at this! Here are a couple main notes I made:

Every single list polled had New York City ranked. Only 2 didn't rank Hong Kong.

NYC and Hong Kong are clearly the two frontrunners, with a more general Top 5 of NYC, HK, Shanghai, Chicago, and Dubai being fairly standard.

Certain cities, such as Toronto and Dubai, had votes across the board in many ranks, possibly showing some sort of controversy in ranking them?

There is a very sharp drop off in votes after about the top 20 cities, so that is possibly a more extensive consideration for Top Skylines.

So, based on this analysis and the voices of the SSC community in this fairly limited sample, the TOP 10 SKYLINES IN THE WORLD ARE:

1. New York City
2. Hong Kong
3. Shanghai
4. Chicago
5. Dubai
6. Singapore
7. Toronto
8. Tokyo
9. Kuala Lumpur
10. Sydney

I would love to do a similar analysis on a much larger sample size one day, or even a blind poll where you don't have the burden of seeing other people's choices.

Hope you enjoyed this! Any questions are more than welcome.


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## Yellow Fever (Jan 3, 2008)

Interesting!


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## wino (Sep 8, 2009)

SSC has spoken..


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## Highcliff (May 4, 2006)

good job....:drool::drool::master::master::cheers::cheers2:


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## L.A.F.2. (Jun 26, 2012)

I feel like US cities and especially European ones are overrated, while Asian ones are underrated.


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## bozenBDJ (Jul 18, 2012)

^ +1 ; More anti-Jakarta propaganda evidence hno: .

I want a remake of this again.


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## KillerZavatar (Jun 22, 2010)

L.A.F.2. said:


> I feel like US cities and especially European ones are overrated, while Asian ones are underrated.


the reason being, the search being in english. if chinese and other languages were also represented, the top rankings might not differ much, but the ones in the later places would differ quite significantly i assume. the problem being that how many results of which language etc makes it even more complicated though. so i think the results are good already, when keeping in mind that it is english-speaking-country centered


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## saiho (Jun 28, 2009)

L.A.F.2. said:


> I feel like US cities and especially European ones are overrated, while Asian ones are underrated.


So true.



KillerZavatar said:


> the reason being, the search being in english. if chinese and other languages were also represented, the top rankings might not differ much, but the ones in the later places would differ quite significantly i assume. the problem being that how many results of which language etc makes it even more complicated though. so i think the results are good already, when keeping in mind that it is english-speaking-country centered


It would be stable in top 5. Shenzhen and Guangzhou would shake up top 15 a bit (why are those 2 cities comparable to London or Moscow? or vice versa) and 20 and below would drastically change. However, I agree that once you keep in mind that the list is western-centric it is a fairly good assessment.


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## DZH22 (Aug 9, 2009)

A few observations:
-London at 12, cue the angry posters from the 2025 thread (here's your next target!)
-Melbourne 16 vs Sydney 10, even though at this point most people who "know" Australian skylines would have Melbourne ranked ahead of Sydney (almost no contest)
-Guangzhou should probably be 6. It's always underrated by the uninitiated.
-Chongqing at 31? Behind Vancouver? This is a top 15 skyline folks.

I will say that the top 5 looks pretty fair. The rest of the list doesn't look awful but I agree with whoever said that Europe was a bit overrated here, and Asia (China in particular) underrated.


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## Victhor (Sep 11, 2002)

Very funny! kay:
And yes, Asian cities are underrated, but because they get less atention in the media and in the forum because there are less forumers and photographers from there, and some go unnoticed when trying to think of cities with a top skyline.


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## msquaredb (Jul 3, 2012)

I think Philly is VERY underrated.


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## MattSal (Dec 24, 2004)

OP here, I think it should be noted that beyond the Top 20 or so, the results are probably extremely inaccurate. This thread asked for people to list their TOP 10 skylines, so anything that was outside that range is subject to much greater variance in results.

For example, a ton of people might think Sao Paulo has a fantastic skyline, but very few think it is worthy of a spot in the Top 10. So it is actually possible that even though Sao Paulo is ranked 27th, it might actually end up as high as 13th or 14th if people were asked their Top 20 Skylines instead.

Hopefully that makes sense.


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## DZH22 (Aug 9, 2009)

MattSal said:


> OP here, I think it should be noted that beyond the Top 20 or so, the results are probably extremely inaccurate. This thread asked for people to list their TOP 10 skylines, so anything that was outside that range is subject to much greater variance in results.
> 
> For example, a ton of people might think Sao Paulo has a fantastic skyline, but very few think it is worthy of a spot in the Top 10. So it is actually possible that even though Sao Paulo is ranked 27th, it might actually end up as high as 13th or 14th if people were asked their Top 20 Skylines instead.
> 
> Hopefully that makes sense.


I know how it works. My point is that certain skylines that should be ranked higher aren't, because some people have never even heard of them. (Guangzhou! Guangzhou! Guangzhou!)

Sao Paulo is probably ranked correctly. It just doesn't have the height. Sao Paulo's tallest building would be (approximately) #140 in NYC, 60 in Tokyo, 65 in Chicago, 50 in Guangzhou, 45 in Bangkok... heck even my city (Boston) has 7 taller buildings. Can't be a top 10 world skyline when none of your buildings touch the sky.


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

Guangzhou - the new central axis is lined with supertalls, 10 built or u/c









http://bbs.home.news.cn



Shenzhen - China's richest city and bigger than HK, fast becoming the country's tallest city - 12 supertalls built or u/c, 25 proposed









www.szpichappy.com


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## TowerVerre:) (Dec 1, 2012)

^^



TowerVerre:) said:


> My new Shenzhen Supertalls Video, based on z0rg's and Scion's List this time.
> Supertalls Total: 66
> Built: 3
> Under Construction: 9
> ...


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## DZH22 (Aug 9, 2009)

I think in the next 1-2 years, Guangzhou has a real shot at becoming China's best skyline, but within a couple years after that it will replaced at the top by Shenzhen.

Personally, I prefer Guangzhou right now because the cluster is much more centralized (not to mention more impressive). Eventually (especially after Ping An is done) Shenzhen's overwhelming amount of supertalls will be too hard to overlook.


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## Victhor (Sep 11, 2002)

the spliff fairy said:


> Guangzhou - the new central axis is lined with supertalls, 10 built or u/c
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow those pics!!!


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## Fern (Dec 3, 2004)

MattSal said:


> OP here, I think it should be noted that beyond the Top 20 or so, the results are probably extremely inaccurate. This thread asked for people to list their TOP 10 skylines, so anything that was outside that range is subject to much greater variance in results.
> 
> For example, a ton of people might think Sao Paulo has a fantastic skyline, but very few think it is worthy of a spot in the Top 10. So it is actually possible that even though Sao Paulo is ranked 27th, it might actually end up as high as 13th or 14th if people were asked their Top 20 Skylines instead.
> 
> Hopefully that makes sense.


What are the criteria though? I would vote not just on size and density but also build and aesthetic quality of the buildings that make up the skyline. So for me London, Paris and Frankfurt, for example, would always rank above São Paulo.


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## teresabaixue (Feb 20, 2012)

whta a pity that there is no Shenzhen or Guangzhou in the top 10


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

That's an awful lot of work, but it's much appreciated. I've been hoping for a detailed and well thought out statistical analysis of the various SSC lists for a while. Well done.

Regarding over rated/under rated/regional bias. It's interesting to see how one's own list compares to how SSC people rate cities to see if you have a regional bias of your own. Looks like I over rate Calgary and Montreal as I have them both in the high 30s. I rank Toronto 6th or 7th and Vancouver around 28th so precisely where SSC people put them.

That said, there are some wildly bizarre placements on there. People seem to know which cities those are.


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## MattSal (Dec 24, 2004)

Fern said:


> What are the criteria though? I would vote not just on size and density but also build and aesthetic quality of the buildinggs that make up the skyline. So for me London, Paris and Frankfurt, for example, would always rank above São Paulo.


Well, Sao Paulo is just an example. You could replace it with any city for the same idea of inaccuracy beyond the Top 15-20 spots.

Personally, I think a skyline should be judged a LOT more than just height. Things like density, clustering, physical size, diversity, nighttime lighting, and natural setting should all play a big role in judging a skyline.

For example, I would almost definitely rank Chicago above Shanghai in my personal Top 10. Shanghai has taller buildings and might one day be a better overall skyline, but I feel that currently Chicago has a more cohesive concentration, a better natural setting, and a greater diversity of buildings.


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## MattSal (Dec 24, 2004)

isaidso said:


> That's an awful lot of work, but it's much appreciated. I've been hoping for a detailed and well thought out statistical analysis of the various SSC lists for a while. Well done.
> 
> Regarding over rated/under rated/regional bias. It's interesting to see how one's own list compares to how SSC people rate cities to see if you have a regional bias of your own. Looks like I over rate Calgary and Montreal as I have them both in the high 30s. I rank Toronto 6th or 7th and Vancouver around 28th so precisely where SSC people put them.
> 
> That said, there are some wildly bizarre placements on there. People seem to know which cities those are.


It was a fair bit of work, but I shared your sentiment and was very curious to see what an overall Top 10 list might look like for SSC.

That being said, I would love to one day expand the scope of this with an online poll where people choose their Top 10 from a list of 50 cities or so and submit it. I think if people don't have other peoples' lists to look at, there will be slightly different results. We could also have it a bit more standardized in terms of entries too.


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## -Corey- (Jul 8, 2005)

teresabaixue said:


> whta a pity that there is no Shenzhen or Guangzhou in the top 10


It is not just about quantity, it's also about quality.... I think that top 10 is perfectly fine.


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## Joseph Gomes (Jul 31, 2013)

I don't understand how Sydney, Tokyo and Kuala Lumpur comes ahead of Guangzhou...but I'm not surprised as very few Chinese visit this website. Many people don't even know about Guangzhou's existence, and majority of those who know about the city have little idea about its skyline. Such a shame...


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## wino (Sep 8, 2009)

well we have to admit it.. we still have that bias against developing countries' skyline. 
Developed Cities naturally have an advantage when it comes to popularity.


For what it's worth, this list is more about skyline popularity rather than being the "best".


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## bozenBDJ (Jul 18, 2012)

^^ :check: Which is exactly why i didn't participate in this.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

wino said:


> For what it's worth, this list is more about skyline popularity rather than being the "best".


That's more of less the same thing. If something is popular, doesn't that make it the 'best'?


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## L.A.F.2. (Jun 26, 2012)

^^ Are you sure?


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## wino (Sep 8, 2009)

^^ Lol




isaidso said:


> That's more of less the same thing. If something is popular, doesn't that make it the 'best'?


not always.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

^^ Honestly, how many best 'lists' mirror your own taste? Maybe 1%, if that.



L.A.F.2. said:


> ^^ Are you sure?


Yes, that's why 'best' is subjective. It's just someone's opinion. If people have deemed something #1, it's best in the eyes of society. Whether you and I think it's 'best' is a whole other story.


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## L.A.F.2. (Jun 26, 2012)

Sorry, but "best" is constituted by subjective personal preference, not a label for something that a majority faction favors. At least, that's my _opinion_.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Well we're all entitled to personal opinions, aren't we? The dictionary definition of 'best' would indicate that something is the most excellent, effective, or desirable. If something is a #1 seller, it certainly fits that definition in the broader sense. That said, what I consider 'best' music is largely summarized in my youtube account and would likely be wildly different than someone else's. Best differs from person to person based on personal taste and what we value.


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## Kafjren (Aug 21, 2013)

whta a pity that there is no Shenzhen or Guangzhou in the top 10
__________________


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## bozenBDJ (Jul 18, 2012)

\off-topic: There is a 'Best' in the Netherlands  .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best,_Netherlands


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## teresabaixue (Feb 20, 2012)

-Corey- said:


> It is not just about quantity, it's also about quality.... I think that top 10 is perfectly fine.


 but I don't think that cities such as Singapore .Tokyo, Kuala Lumpur, Sydney can beat Guangzhou and Shenzhen。Not only the quality of skyscrapers but also CBDs and the skylines


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## -Corey- (Jul 8, 2005)

Perhaps those 3 cities are too high, but the rest are fine.


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## Puppetgeneral (Jul 9, 2013)

Well I think the only reasons that Asian cities are being underrated because they started being best the last 10- 20 years with industrial booming. Esp. to guangzhou and Shenzhen. Although Shenzhen is like best at this but the city was only a fishing village in the 1970s. Guangzhou could be 2 reasons. 1st Europeans and Americans known Guangzhou as Canton for a pretty long time so if the name was still kept now it might not be as underrated as now. The other is Zhujiang CBD's talll buildings came up after 2000. They are probably many other reasons but this is my opinion of this.


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## -Corey- (Jul 8, 2005)

How about at street level? are they appealing?


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

At street level Guangzhou's pretty cool, the new CBD is trying out something new:









www.lifeofguangzhou.com


All car, rail and parking is underground








http://bbs.home.news.cn








http://pic.qnpic.com








Zorg








www.motiancity.com


















and on a larger plan the whole riverfront is being landscaped - but on an epic scale









www.globalphotos.org









www.globalphotos.org


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## Archaean (Apr 27, 2013)

That street level looks like a horrendous nightmare without a car. Its like the developers never made it out of the 1970s.


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## -Corey- (Jul 8, 2005)

I think at Street level European and American cities take the crown...


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## wino (Sep 8, 2009)

Archaean said:


> That street level looks like a horrendous nightmare without a car. Its like the developers never made it out of the 1970s.


I guess that is why they are building an underground rail....


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Archaean said:


> That street level looks like a horrendous nightmare without a car. Its like the developers never made it out of the 1970s.


It reminds me of La Defense in the sense that it looks very good, but it's not the type of place you're going to frequent on foot. It's for post card shots, but not on a human scale at grade. You'd need to walk 20 minutes just to find a store.


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## De Klauw (Apr 20, 2006)

L.A.F.2. said:


> I feel like US cities and especially European ones are overrated, while Asian ones are underrated.


Asian ones are a bit too much of the same. Especially the Chinese cities. At least, that's my opinion.


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## De Klauw (Apr 20, 2006)

Archaean said:


> That street level looks like a horrendous nightmare without a car. Its like the developers never made it out of the 1970s.


It's pedestrian friendly. What's against that? 

The contrary is true. Most cities are crowded by cars. I think you mix up abandoned and empty plaza's with car-free places.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

De Klauw said:


> It's pedestrian friendly. What's against that?


Is it though? Having huge wide pedestrian paths with lots of greenery is great, but what if you want a corner store? Pedestrian friendly also means you don't have to walk 20 minutes just to find basic things.

Ever been to a zoo? It's much the same. After an hour you're exhausted because everything is a huge hike and you just want to hop in a golf cart. Except here there aren't any tigers and elephants exhibits along the way.


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

I wouldnt worry about China losing its famed streetlife or corner stores - every side street is packed with stalls, mon n pop stores and vendors, from brand new Shenzhen to overplanned, boulevard-mad Beijing. This is the same for Guangzhou where the vast majority of the city is still very Chinese at street level. It's basically the poorer side of the cities, but in a decidedly good and vibrant way. Also, bear in mind central Guangzhou with 94,000 people averaging per sq mile is about one third denser than Manhattan.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=g...=guangzhou+street+life&tbm=isch&um=1&imgdii=_


Guangzhou:









www.theimaginaleye.com









www.holidaychinatour.com
















Andrew McConnell, http://imgc.allpostersimages.com
















www.lifeofguangzhou.com, www.guardian.co.uk


















https://blog.klm.com


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## L.A.F.2. (Jun 26, 2012)

De Klauw said:


> Asian ones are a bit too much of the same. Especially the Chinese cities. At least, that's my opinion.


But with London being ahead of Guangzhou with such a major difference in size is nonsense. London has a few nice small buildings, but Guangzhou also has some really nice, much larger ones and many more buildings.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

the spliff fairy said:


> I wouldnt worry about China losing its famed streetlife or corner stores - every side street is packed with stalls, mon n pop stores and vendors, from brand new Shenzhen to overplanned, boulevard-mad Beijing.


Posting a flood of photos showing that vibrant streets do exist doesn't negate one little bit that this area is vastly lacking when it comes to that. The issue is the area that you featured. That streets packed with stalls are to be found a 30 minute walk away is little consolation if you're standing on this stretch below:



the spliff fairy said:


> At street level Guangzhou's pretty cool, the new CBD is trying out something new:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## DZH22 (Aug 9, 2009)

-Corey- said:


> I think at Street level European and American cities take the crown...


It depends which American cities you are talking about. NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, San Francisco... yes, excellent street levels. (throw in Montreal for best street level in Canada, since it's basically a weekend destination for us Boston folk) But on the flip side, many cities (particularly in the south) have absolutely terrible downtowns from a pedestrian standpoint. The newer ones especially, like Charlotte, just don't offer a true urban experience. 

The main juxtaposition is with the cities that were established before cars, vs the cities that were built to cater to them. Night and day, really.


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## -Corey- (Jul 8, 2005)

I'm not talking about just pedestrian friendly cities, what I meant was that architecturally speaking American/Canadian cities tend to look neat, cleaner, nice and everything in order. It's like if every building is merged with the street and not boring (I'm talking about downtowns since this thread is about skylines aka downtowns).


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## teresabaixue (Feb 20, 2012)

At street level Shenzhen's pretty cool too
all pictures from gaoloumi.com


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

isaidso said:


> Posting a flood of photos showing that vibrant streets do exist doesn't negate one little bit that this area is vastly lacking when it comes to that. The issue is the area that you featured. That streets packed with stalls are to be found a 30 minute walk away is little consolation if you're standing on this stretch below:


Actually the central axis still has three surviving informal 'villages' on it's sides. Anyhoo it's not different from Canary Wharf or Lower Manhattan where neither do you find many corner stores or 'mon n pop' businesses.


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

This is Huangpu Dadao village - check out the density










demolition nears it's borders:









Xian village - currently mounting a spirited campaign to survive but doubtful how long it will last


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## ashley005 (Aug 23, 2013)

Best differs from person to person based on personal taste and what we value.


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## -Corey- (Jul 8, 2005)

Is that smog in Shenzhen?


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

YES (though yeah it could be heat/ humidity haze too). The area is the worlds' factory base, though now competing with Chongqing .


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## bozenBDJ (Jul 18, 2012)

the spliff fairy said:


> Xian village - currently mounting a spirited campaign to survive but doubtful how long it will last


That place looks alot like Indonesian cities :nuts: hno:.


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## -Corey- (Jul 8, 2005)

It looks depressing :S


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

the spliff fairy said:


> Actually the central axis still has three surviving informal 'villages' on it's sides. Anyhoo it's not different from Canary Wharf or Lower Manhattan where neither do you find many corner stores or 'mon n pop' businesses.


Perhaps Guangzhou can hold on to those 'villages' rather than emulating less than ideal practices seen elsewhere.


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