# MISC | Graffiti & Vandalism: How serious is the graffiti problem on your city/country's trains?



## [email protected] (Apr 28, 2004)

Some examples near/in Paris :
Double deck train (RER) :

















































Subways :


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## anm (Aug 25, 2005)

Mr.JACOB said:


> What are talking about :bash: What kind of audio htere are short video links in wich u can see gays painting a moscow subway i tunnels and then the same painted subway car is running in traffic in some moscow subway station just check it again.


No need to bang on my head Mr. JACOB. The links from http://www.prokaza.org/prev.htm play only some crap music on my computer - no video.



Mr.JACOB said:


> An one more thing mr ANM if u know so well the subway in moscow u should recognize that this are the stations in moscow underground system. Here u got some more links mr "i dont believe u" : http://www.kgmoscow.ru/subway01.htm# take photo nr 2 for egzample. http://www.russianroulette.org/download.htm One more movie from moscow but this time dont give me crap that this is audio to...


photo #2 has been taken at Kurskaja station of Moscow metro circle line. A couple of other pics are likely to be from the Airport station, and one more is likely to be of one of the stations of Filevskaja line.

The video from russian roulette - this one opens as a video indeed. 90% of the trains shown are commuter trains (elektrichka). The are a few glimpses of subway trains... Not at stations that can be positively identified as Moscow metro stations. Although, given the pictures of Kurskaja and Airport, I am supposed to believe, again by association that this is Moscow metro.

Now what? Do you feel better Mr. Bad Manners? What have you proven anyway? That some bustards sometimes deface Moscow subway trains, that there have a few very rare occurences of such trains used before they have been repainted to normal colors.

Does it snow in Hawaii? It has snowed there today - check the news. Is snowing in Hawaii a typical event? No.

How bad is the problem of graffiti in Moscow subway? Any sensible person who have used the system at all, let alone regularly for many years, will confirm that seeing a graffiti train in Moscow metro is a very rare, actually shocking exception. In fact, I have not seen one such train live yet - only in these pictures. Are you satisfied?


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## Mr.JACOB (May 8, 2005)

anm said:


> No need to bang on my head Mr. JACOB. The links from http://www.prokaza.org/prev.htm play only some crap music on my computer - no video.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No im not satisfied. I just wanted to show u that somebody is doing grffiti in moscow as well. becouse u dont belive it . And bad manners are then when sombady is calling somebody els a bustard but dont even know this person. U dont know any thing about graffiti but u say that this is wrong and this people are stupid. I will tell u some thing. I dont want to convince u that this is good or bad. I dont undurstand it as well but i got friends how are doing graffiti on trains and they are people after studies like: arhitekture or history of art and for siure they arent bustards. Im not saying that scraching window is good i dont like it as well but this is how the grtaffiti loks like. There are some people saying. When its on legal wall then i like it somewere els no. But this is not working this way. Afcourse as in every thing there are people usualy some young guys how dont know what is graffit but they think that they are doing it by scraching windows or puting some shiti tags insaide the trains. I know that the problem is not graffiti but money look at all this shiti comersials on the trains or buses its like graffiti the diffrence is that somebody has paid for it and then its legal how stupid is this????????


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## anm (Aug 25, 2005)

Mr.JACOB said:


> No im not satisfied. I just wanted to show u that somebody is doing grffiti in moscow as well. becouse u dont belive it .


Yes, I believe that there are people who try to do it. And I maintain for all people who have not seen Moscow metro - the trains are free of graffiti 99.99% of the time, so that you have very small chance of seeing it. 



Mr.JACOB said:


> And bad manners are then when sombady is calling somebody els a bustard but dont even know this person. U dont know any thing about graffiti but u say that this is wrong and this people are stupid..


Oh, you want me to be very precise and specific in my degfinitions. OK, "bustards" is colloquial expletive reflecting my feelings about what these people are doing. My feelings aside, these people are criminals who should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for defacing and vandalizing public property.



Mr.JACOB said:


> I will tell u some thing. I dont want to convince u that this is good or bad. I dont undurstand it as well but i got friends how are doing graffiti on trains and they are people after studies like: arhitekture or history of art and for siure they arent bustards.


Again, they are criminals who should be fined and jailed.



Mr.JACOB said:


> Im not saying that scraching window is good i dont like it as well but this is how the grtaffiti loks like. There are some people saying. When its on legal wall then i like it somewere els no. But this is not working this way. Afcourse as in every thing there are people usualy some young guys how dont know what is graffit but they think that they are doing it by scraching windows or puting some shiti tags insaide the trains. I know that the problem is not graffiti but money look at all this shiti comersials on the trains or buses its like graffiti the diffrence is that somebody has paid for it and then its legal how stupid is this????????


I know very well what graffiti looks like. I've seen enough of it in US cities (NYC, Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Philadelphia, Washington DC, Boston, etc.)I do not like it in any shape or form. Period. And there is no point bringing up advertisement here - it is totally different. You are trying to be apologetic about graffiti, I suspect you have an agenda. Perhaps you are one of those people defacing property?

The rule is (and has always been): if it is not your property - do not touch it.
You like graffiti - buy yourself a house and paint it (if your neighbours will tolerate it).

Advertisement is legal, it is governed by laws. If majority of us dislike it - we can change these laws. This happens all the time in civilized societies, there is nothing stupid about it. Graffiti is illegal. The only thing I'd like to discuss in relation to it is what should be done better to stop these vandals.


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## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

Mr.JACOB, I never seen any graffiti in metro. I use it several times per day every day. But I never seen any graffiti.


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## redstone (Nov 15, 2003)

Should rail yards and rail depots be places of high security?

They are a neccessity in most cities... Getting people around.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

redstone said:


> Should rail yards and rail depots be places of high security?
> 
> They are a neccessity in most cities... Getting people around.


Definitely! Just like what happened in Manila years back!


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## redstone (Nov 15, 2003)

WANCH said:


> Definitely! Just like what happened in Manila years back!


But hearing what's happening to depots and yards in other cities, I wonder why are those places not high security areas..... 

What happened in Manila? :dunno:


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

redstone said:


> But hearing what's happening to depots and yards in other cities, I wonder why are those places not high security areas.....
> 
> What happened in Manila? :dunno:


They are but remember that some die-hards get managed to sneak in and paint some trains. To make it simpler, they know the yards pretty well, where to enter, timing and all that!


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## redstone (Nov 15, 2003)

WANCH said:


> They are but remember that some die-hards get managed to sneak in and paint some trains. To make it simpler, they know the yards pretty well, where to enter, timing and all that!



Singapore's MRT depots have bush hedge barriers, barbed wire fencing. Only a few gates. Every employee or contractor has to go pass these gates, which are guarded. Depots are high security places here.

But I can't say the same for the KTM Intercity train line. They're managed by Malaysia's KTMB. 

What happened in Manila??? :dunno:


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

redstone said:


> Singapore's MRT depots have bush hedge barriers, barbed wire fencing. Only a few gates. Every employee or contractor has to go pass these gates, which are guarded. Depots are high security places here.
> 
> But I can't say the same for the KTM Intercity train line. They're managed by Malaysia's KTMB.
> 
> What happened in Manila??? :dunno:


The one in Manila, look at the picture!

But if someone gets caught painting a train in Singapore or even attempting to paint one, the punishment is severe!


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## redstone (Nov 15, 2003)

WANCH said:


> The one in Manila, look at the picture!
> 
> But if someone gets caught painting a train in Singapore or even attempting to paint one, the punishment is severe!


Never ever heard anyone that had attempted to break into rail depots here before... :lol:

All trains are housed in huge rail garages (or whatever those huge buildings where trains are parked are called)....


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

redstone said:


> Never ever heard anyone that had attempted to break into rail depots here before... :lol:
> 
> All trains are housed in huge rail garages (or whatever those huge buildings where trains are parked are called)....


Most of them are except probably NYC!

And yeah, Manila's trains can't escape it's wrath


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## loadsofbulls (Jan 25, 2006)

uke: 

The graffitti are horrible. They make the towns like slum. In Tokyo, there are no such trashy trains. They've always been in perfect condition.


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## Mr.JACOB (May 8, 2005)

anm said:


> Yes, I believe that there are people who try to do it. And I maintain for all people who have not seen Moscow metro - the trains are free of graffiti 99.99% of the time, so that you have very small chance of seeing it.
> 
> 
> Oh, you want me to be very precise and specific in my degfinitions. OK, "bustards" is colloquial expletive reflecting my feelings about what these people are doing. My feelings aside, these people are criminals who should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for defacing and vandalizing public property.
> ...


As i sad before i dont want to convince anyone. I just want to say that people how dont know what its all about (its not enought to see painted wals) and people who compare it to drug dillers, killers and so on are narow mindet. Thats it. About thr advertisment if u got the power please change it ok. I will say ones again its all about money. If u want i can prove it to u. 
1. In my city some graffiti writers did advertisment for the pepsi company. They painted the whole train in smal MD pictures. Of course pepsi payd for that. But unfortunetly i dont have any flix so u will not belive me right?
2. German Writers made a movie That is Called Whole Train. They just gave the money to Railway Company and no problem The Whole Train was ready. 
http://www.wholetrain.com/main_english.html

And for the end some nice Advertisments compering to ILLEGAL shiti graffiti:

LEGAL
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/697/train4mac0012et.jpg
ILLEGAL
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2247/gdanskskm5b6ac.jpg
LEGAL
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/405/gdanskskm89qb.jpg
ILLEGAL
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/8052/madseen6to.jpg
LEGAL
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8330/super2zq.jpg
ILLEGAL
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/3626/00040id091032tw.jpg

And here is a legal wholetrain from porto alegre in brazil:
http://www.lost.art.br/124_wholetrain.htm


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

loadsofbulls said:


> uke:
> 
> The graffitti are horrible. They make the towns like slum. In Tokyo, there are no such trashy trains. They've always been in perfect condition.





















BTW Mr. Jacob, now that whole train thing in Germany isn't sport man! Same as what Cope2 did for his video!


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## crazyjoeda (Sep 10, 2004)

Iv never seen Graffiti on the out side of a Skytrain or Bus in Vancouver. There are some times a few small tags on the inside.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

crazyjoeda said:


> Iv never seen Graffiti on the out side of a Skytrain or Bus in Vancouver. There are some times a few small tags on the inside.


as posted earlier


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## invincible (Sep 13, 2002)

I'd hate to see graffiti covering a train like that. There's a depot on my line and today I had a look over (since the train had stopped to let a staff member off) and noticed that there was plenty of barbed wire and cameras. 

Trains in storage, however, don't get this sort of treatment.

Besides, Melbourne's operators have changed so much that a graffitied train could just wait until the company in charge pulls out or renames itself again.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

invincible said:


> I'd hate to see graffiti covering a train like that. There's a depot on my line and today I had a look over (since the train had stopped to let a staff member off) and noticed that there was plenty of barbed wire and cameras.


It's because of this!


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## Arpels (Aug 9, 2004)

ok lol points of view :dunno:


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

The Parisian subways and commuter train have mostly scrachiti at windows.
Graffiti aren't a big problem but the trains are dirty.


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## greg_christine (Jan 25, 2004)

*Case Study Report on Graffiti - New York City*

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_mobility/documents/page/dft_mobility_025965-03.hcsp

Case Study Report on Graffiti

The case studies - our findings

1. New York City: A focused approach to rapid cleaning and removal

1.1 Scale of the problem

Fifteen years ago the stations and cars of the New York subway were covered with graffiti1. Passengers recall not being able to see out of the windows, so complete was the coverage of the graffiti. Today both are completely clear from painted graffiti.

While painted graffiti has been eradicated from the system, there has recently been a problem of glass etching which has so far defeated the agencies, although plans are being developed to tackle this problem. 

1.2 Graffiti removal on the New York Subway

The Anti Graffiti Initiative

The New York City Transit subway system operates every day, 24 hours a day throughout the boroughs of Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx. The 25 subway lines serve 5.1 million customers on an average weekday and about 1.1 billion passengers a year. There are 5,800 cars, making over 6,000 train trips per day. There are 468 stations, 656 miles of track (not including sidings) and 18 yards where cars are kept overnight. All stations are open 24 hours a day, though some close certain entrances at night, when staffing is also reduced.

The anti graffiti initiative on the New York subway dates from 1984, when Robert Kiley was Chairman and David Gunn was President of Transit. It was in response to a strong public perception that the subway was unsafe, which had led to a fall in ridership.

Staff were assigned to the terminals and yards to start cleaning the rolling stock. Those cars that had a stainless steel exterior had to be completely cleaned; those that were painted had to be painted over. Stations were cleaned, one at a time, and inspected every day to ensure that they stayed clean. Any new 'hit' was cleaned off, or if this was not possible, painted over. 

Recognising that the task was enormous, and that to achieve some early successes it would be important to make a visible impact, the company embarked on a line by line approach to cleaning up the system. The first graffiti-free line was the F Line in February 1985. The whole network was finally graffiti free in May 1989. 

The theory that underpins the approach in New York is that the graffiti vandal (a term used in preference to 'artist') is motivated and rewarded by seeing their works displayed. Public transport is a perfect target: over five million passengers pass through the stations each day; countless others observe the cars that travel above ground. In order to remove the reward and hence the motivation, it is vital to clean off or cover over any graffiti before it can have an audience. It is said that if complete removal is not possible immediately, putting a line through it is an effective short-term measure.

Staff are deployed at terminals to clean each car after its journey down a line. These staff are issued with a Guide which sets out their priorities for cleaning. Highest priority is accorded to graffiti, which has to be cleaned off or covered over before the car is put back in service. Immediate removal has also been found to make removal easier, as it does not allow time for the paint to 'migrate' into the surface. All cleaners keep a graffiti notebook in which they record graffiti hits, which are then reported to the police.

The Subway Department of Transit has a mobile Wash Unit, and cleaners go out to stations in the middle of the night to remove graffiti.

Cars are seen as being most vulnerable to graffiti at night, when they are in yards or laid up on unused express lines. These are well lit and are subject to the informal surveillance of cleaning staff, as well as the formal patrol of the Transit Police.

Taking cars out of service to remove extensive graffiti undoubtedly causes problems in terms of disruption and delay, which in turn creates problems for front line staff in dealing with the anger and frustration of passengers. However, staff are described as being 'used to that anyway' and the problem is less now that the graffiti problem is so minimal.

The success of the initiative is attributed in large part to political will and the determination of senior management (Robert Kiley and David Gunn), and is said to have repaid the investment by an increase in ridership. However, it is not possible to measure the increase that can be attributed to this specific initiative, since other improvements were underway at the same time, including the introduction of new ticketing and gating arrangements.

The initiative is directed by a monitoring meeting where key managers are called to account. These were initially monthly, but are now held on a quarterly basis. Passenger surveys are carried out on a regular basis, and include questions relating to graffiti and other environmental nuisance, as well as such things as the standard of air conditioning and public announcements.

It is acknowledged that there has been some displacement of graffiti from the subway system to the surrounding area as a result of this initiative. The Mayor's Anti Graffiti Task Force (see below) is a multi agency initiative committed to a similar approach in the wider environment and which, therefore, tackles some of this displacement.

The media is seen as having been important in promoting the achievements of the initiative and attracting back passengers. Reporters were invited to see stations that had been cleaned up. Arrests of vandals are reported in the media which, in the view of Transit, is more important than the fact that the sentences may not reflect - in their opinion - the seriousness of the offence.

Law Enforcement and Detection

The Transit Police were incorporated into the New York Police Department (NYPD) in 1995. This is thought to have improved crime management and communications. The Transit Police Vandal Squad comprises one Lieutenant, eight Sergeants, and sixty officers. They have been involved in the initiative from the outset. Their task is to deploy staff to patrol and monitor the terminals and yards where cars have been cleaned, as a deterrent and to catch the graffiti vandals. They also have a designated team - the Graffiti Habitual Offender Suppression Team - who are proactive and target known offenders.

Large or significant pieces of graffiti are photographed to provide evidence if the vandal is caught and prosecuted. A record is made of the time taken to clean the graffiti and the cost of the materials, and both pieces of information are submitted to the court.

People found guilty in court of fare evasion, graffiti and vandalism, may be required to report to their local Precinct (police station) and may, as part of Community Service, be required to paint over or remove graffiti.

1.3 Graffiti removal in New York City

The Mayor's Anti Graffiti Task Force

Mayor Giuliani's Anti Graffiti Task Force was established in 1995. It is a multi agency initiative involving:

Department of Buildings
Department of Business Services
Department of Cultural Affairs
New York City Economic Development Corporation
Department of Environmental Protection
Department of Finance
New York City Fire Department
Department of Citywide Administrative Service
Department of Health
New York City Housing Authority
Department of Housing Preservation and Development
Human Resources Administration
Landmarks Commission
Law Department
Parks Department
New York City Police Department
Department of Probation
Department of Sanitation
New York City Transit
Department of Transportation
Department of Youth and Community Development Services
Office of the Mayor
Community Assistance Unit

The Task Force meets monthly, with meetings chaired by the Assistant Counsel to the Mayor. These are used to identify target areas for clean up, and to co-ordinate the contribution of the relevant agencies to the exercise.

The Task Force stresses the importance of making a visible impact, and so targets only small areas where the removal of graffiti will be noticed by the community and will be sustainable.

Prior to a graffiti removal exercise, outreach staff from the City Council and Mayor's office approach local businesses and residents with consent waiver forms, which give the owner's permission to remove graffiti from their building. A database of waivers is currently being compiled to avoid the need to obtain further waivers, should it become necessary to go back to any location in the future.

Graffiti is removed by applying chemicals to the site. These chemicals are then washed off. While the chemicals are highly toxic, when mixed with water they become harmless. If removal is impossible - for example if the surface itself is painted, and removal of the graffiti would result in the original paint being stripped too - then the surface is painted over.

Retail outlets sponsor the materials (paints and rollers) used to paint over graffiti, seeing it as a means of promoting themselves in the neighbourhood. The initiative uses over 4,000 gallons of paint each year, so sponsorship is important in keeping costs to a minimum.

The Probation Service uses people on Community Service on the work crews to clean graffiti in public places. There are likely to be between six and twelve individuals on each work crew, supervised by Probation. During the first three months of 2001, people serving Community Service Orders cleaned graffiti from about 800,000 square feet of public space. 

In the course of this initiative the City passed a law prohibiting the sale of spray paints and markers to those less than 18 years of age. They cannot be displayed openly in shops, and can be advertised by use of facsimile only. Graffiti vandals who are under 18 therefore have to either steal them or obtain them from over 18 year-olds.

Since the Anti Graffiti initiative has been perceived by the community to be successful there has been an increase in reporting. Indeed, reporting to the Department of Housing Preservation and Development has increased despite the fact the level of graffiti has decreased considerably over the last three years, so that public housing is now estimated at 80% graffiti-free. 

After a removal exercise, the local Precinct is notified and it is their responsibility to monitor and patrol the area, to ensure that the area is not re-targeted.

Some of the agencies and departments are able to estimate the annual costs of graffiti removal as follows:

Housing Preservation and Development
over $100,000

Sanitation
$117,000 ($86,000 being personnel)

Police Department
$5,000,000 (personnel)

Human Resources Administration
$1,000,000

Fire Department
$155,000



The first stage in the removal process is the application of highly toxic chemicals










The surface is then sprayed with water










The wall is cleaned. It may be necessary to re-apply chemicals to parts of the wall 










Police costs are calculated not only to cover the Graffiti Squad but on the basis that every officer is responsible for deterring and detecting even the most minor offence.

It is anticipated that the costs of graffiti removal will decrease over time, as the initiative is successful in deterring potential offenders. Some departments already report a decrease in expenditure on this basis.

The Mayor's Paint Programme was set up to enable communities to take pride and responsibility for their own neighbourhood. A total of $306,000 is spent on paint removal kits, which are made available to community groups who are willing to do the work themselves. The Programme is advertised, but also publicised through community group meetings. Groups are offered assistance on how to set about planning the work and getting waivers signed by owners. The need to continue removing any graffiti hits made after the initial exercise is stressed. Locations are checked out to make sure that the need is legitimate, and Groups are asked to take photographs before and after the removal, so that these can be kept on file.

The Mayor's approach to crime is rooted in the 'Broken Windows' philosophy, and addresses the 'quality of life' issues such as begging, graffiti and vandalism on the basis that this improves public perceptions and deters potential offenders. Leaders of graffiti gangs are often wanted for more serious offences and, thus, catching them indirectly prevents other crime.

This approach is said to have brought about a reduction in crime and a growth in business greater than in any other US city. In 1994, the New York Police Department began a new approach to policing. Each Precinct is required to hold weekly 'COMPSTAT' meetings where crime trends are reviewed, using state-of-the art computer mapping techniques able to pinpoint crimes down to block level. Precinct commanders are called upon to account for trends in incidents and are required to devise detailed strategies and target resources accordingly2.

While the Transit initiative predates the Task Force by over 10 years, and had already achieved considerable success, New York City Transit and the Transit Police play an important role in the Task Force in motivating other agencies and contributing their expertise. Their view is that the Task Force extends the removal of graffiti beyond the limits of the subway, hence decreasing the motivation of offenders further and reducing the chances of displacement.

1 A description of the origins and development of graffiti on the New York City transit system is provided in the Literature Review that forms part of this study. 

2 More details are provided in 'Respectful and Effective Policing: Two Examples in South Bronx' Robert C Davis and Pedro Mateu-Gelabert, Vera Institute of Justice, New York, March 1999


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## greg_christine (Jan 25, 2004)

*Case Study Report on Graffiti - London Underground*

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/grou...ts/page/dft_mobility_025965-04.hcsp#TopOfPage

Case Study Report on Graffiti

2. British Transport Police, London Underground Graffiti Unit: Focused on detection and arrest

2.1 Scale of the problem

Cleaning and repairing graffiti and vandalism on the London Underground network costs between £2.5 and £3 million a year. Despite some successes in recent years, incidents of graffiti and vandalism have been increasing. 

Data collected by the London Underground Graffiti Unit identified that most of the perpetrators are between 14 and 30 years of age. Most are boys and young men, although there has been an increase in the number of girls and young women involved in graffiti. The Unit have also identified that, although many come from poor or deprived home environments, there are others who come from comfortable and higher income families. Some of the perpetrators come from abroad. The Unit has apprehended young people from Berlin, Amsterdam, Paris, Spain and Sweden. 

2.2 The Graffiti Unit

The London Underground Graffiti Unit is staffed with three officers and is part of the British Transport Police. The Unit was first set up in 1992 in response to major problems from graffiti and vandalism in the early 1990s. It was temporarily disbanded in 1996 because it was felt that the problems of graffiti and vandalism had been largely resolved. However, the Unit was re-established in 1997 in response to evidence that the problems were increasing and with the growth of glass etching or 'Dutch graffiti'. 

The Unit commented that young people target the Underground network because:

"they want to be accepted, to get fame, to get recognition. They want their name to be known all over London, that's the key". 
There are certain prominent walls in the overground sections of the network that attract many incidents of graffiti and are known within the culture as 'halls of fame'. For example, there are the walls along the tracks at Barons Court and Hammersmith, and those by Westway on the approach to Paddington Station. 

In recent years, glass etching has increased in prevalence. The Graffiti Unit identify that those "doing the etching also do the paint. Etching is escalating and paint appears to be diminishing". The perpetrators use stones or drill bits for the etching and, if apprehended, these are easy to hide or throw away.

It is said that there is an increasing interest in glass etching because it will be there for much longer and not readily replaced because of the high costs involved. It costs about £6,000 to replace all the toughened glass windows in a LUL carriage. Measures that have been considered to tackle glass etching have included the use of film over the glass, but there are safety implications and this has not been introduced. London Underground is currently researching ways of preventing glass etching. 

There have been major incidents where the perpetrators have been seriously injured or killed through electrocution or when hit by a train. That does not appear to be a deterrent for these young people or young adults who will continue their activities even after a friend has been seriously injured or even killed. As the Graffiti Unit commented:

"young people today take more and more risks. The men used to plan their graffiti missions, they knew the area and what they were going to have to do, where the live rails were etc. But this isn't the case today. The 13/14 year olds, they don't do that, 
they just step out across the tracks and it's very dangerous. These kids do not even realise that the LUL power is on 24 hours a day, every day"
The Graffiti Unit have identified that those involved in graffiti are often also involved in other kinds of offences. Involvement in graffiti is said to be linked often to solvent abuse and use of cannabis. The Unit described a progression where: 

"the 14 year old will do graffiti, but then there is a steady progression - underage drinking, cannabis, shoplifting, car crime...damage to ticket machines, into street robbery and stealing mobile phones for money for drugs and paints. There is substantial evidence that they are involved in other crimes"
The approach of the Unit is based on the premise that recognition and good intelligence are the keys to apprehending offenders. Using computer software, the Graffiti Unit registers all tags and pieces on their database. The data is analysed to identify persistent offenders3 and hotspots for their activity. On the basis of this intelligence, the Unit will target locations and perpetrators. 

The Unit collects and presents to the Court evidence of all the perpetrator's other offences through tags and pieces. Section 6 of the Criminal Damage Act 1971 is used for arrest and to carry out house searches, including computer records. There is often photographic evidence in the home of the perpetrator actually carrying out acts of graffiti writing, these photographs are taken for inclusion in the perpetrator's 'black book' of pieces.

If the cost of the criminal damage is calculated at over £5000, the case will be referred to the Crown Court. The Unit is keen for those charged to go before the Crown Court because of the scope for tougher sentences. Providing all the evidence can result in those charged for the first time receiving a much stronger sentence, including a custodial term and a fine. 

The Graffiti Unit has had success with this proactive approach. For example, one young man has been sentenced to 240 hours of Community Service and a fine of £2,000, and another to 140 hours of Community Service and a fine of £1,000. 

The advantage of having a dedicated graffiti team is that they are in the position to collect and present all the evidence specific to an individual perpetrator. In contrast, the Home Office police are more likely to have the evidence specific only to the offence for which the person was apprehended. On this basis, the perpetrator may only be given a caution or a small fine, although he may have been responsible for more than thirty or more incidents. 

2.3 Issues emerging from the initiative 

The Criminal Damage Act 1971 was said by the Unit to be effective, but does not give Stop and Search powers. If Section 3 of that Act is strengthened in this regard it would enable the officers, for example, to search a group of young people out late at night or early in the morning for cans of spray paint. 

Despite the fact that they contain solvents, there is no regulation governing the sale of spray paint. With mixed effect, there have been attempts at voluntary agreements with retailers. A change in the law that treats spray paints in a similar manner to glues is required to begin to tackle an important source of such paints. 

More information needs to be made available to the Crown Prosecution Service to help them to effectively prosecute these kinds of offences. Although it was said that the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 had helped to raise awareness of these offences, more information needs to be provided to the Courts about the cost and seriousness of these offences and its links to other crimes. 

One issue in particular is that, when calculating the costs of graffiti, the Courts do not take into account the time that a train or carriage is out of service and hence not available for passenger use. If the time out of service while the train or carriage is cleaned and/or repaired were taken into account, this would significantly increase the total cost of the incident. With a LUL train, this can amount to thousands of pounds. This would not only mean that the seriousness of the problem would gain wider recognition but the case would be above the £5,000 limit and be referred to the Crown Court. 

About three years ago the Graffiti Unit tried, but failed, to get the cost of the train or carriage out of service taken into account in a test case. No attempt has been made to include these costs recently. 

The Graffiti Unit is against making 'legal' or 'permitted' walls available. It is said to do nothing to reduce the prevalence of graffiti more widely. There are also responsibilities under Health and Safety legislation for anyone making a wall in their ownership available for such purposes. 

3 Tags are generally personal to the perpetrator. Someone engaged in graffiti will usually only be allowed to write someone else's tag if they are there or to say 'hello'.


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## greg_christine (Jan 25, 2004)

*Case Study Report on Graffiti - Dutch Railways*

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/grou...ts/page/dft_mobility_025965-05.hcsp#TopOfPage

Case Study Report on Graffiti

3. Dutch Railways: A package approach

Nederlandse Spoorwegen (NS) is Holland's largest railway company. Each day, NS carries about a million passengers in 4,500 trains serving 320 stations on a rail network that extends over 2,500 kilometres.

3.1 Scale of the problem

The cleaning and removal of graffiti costs NS about 10m Gilders a year (about £3.5 million). The impact of graffiti on the NS network has increased significantly in the last two years. This is linked to the lack of priority given to the problem. At that time, it was thought that the problem had been contained, and resources within the police and the company were diverted to other priorities. 

Vandalism and graffiti on the network is more prevalent in the western half of Holland, in and around the cities and larger towns. There are also 'hotspots' elsewhere, for example near the border towns with Germany in southern Holland. Some trackside walls and buildings are intensely targeted with graffiti. For example, along the trackside from The Hague to Utrecht, including the panels installed to act as a barrier between the road and rail. Most of the graffiti, and especially the big pieces created with spray paints on the trains, occur while they are in the depots. 

In common with transport operators in other countries, the spread of so-called 'Dutch graffiti' is a problem for NS. This type of vandalism did not originate in the Netherlands but owes its name to the association between Holland and the diamond-cutting industry. Those responsible for the glass etching are not usually those engaged in spray painting 'pieces'. The perpetrators of the glass etching tend to be young people who are travelling, whilst it is usually the gangs or 'crews', often of older young people or adults, who are responsible for the 'pieces'. Stones or the stops from beer bottles are often used in the etching. 

Although perpetrators do come from other countries in Europe and beyond, most of the graffiti is the work of local gangs or 'crews' from within the Netherlands. There are many local magazines and Internet sites devoted to graffiti. 

Young people are responsible for most of the vandalism, graffiti and other crime on the NS network. The company identify that young people at a younger and younger age are responsible for criminal acts on the network. Today, there are acts of violence committed by twelve year olds. 

3.2 A company-wide commitment

The company distinguishes between 'objective security' (defined as the experiences of crime) and 'subjective security' (defined as the fear of crime and its impact on the motivation to travel and the health of staff). The presence of graffiti and vandalism are identified as key elements contributing to 'subjective security' or fear of crime. 

Within NS, there is a commitment from senior management that security is a priority for the company, and all employees are responsible for ensuring the security of passengers, staff and property. Public security is seen as central to providing a quality service. The company has an integrated public security policy governing the collection and analysis of information, the role of staff, and the use of technical and communication measures. 

There is a budget for security and a project team responsible for public security on the NS network. Over the last year, there has been increased investment for security. This has included a programme for the train depots to be equipped with CCTV surveillance cameras and patrols by security guards. 

There are over 800 employees whose work specifically includes responsibility for public security concerns. All these staff are issued with mobile phones and handheld computers to receive and download information about incidents, including those of vandalism. In addition, there are frontline staff (such as, train-based ticket inspectors and transport assistants) whose responsibilities include providing a presence that can deter misuse of the network, including through vandalism. 

3.3 Company-based initiatives

Rapid Cleaning and Removal

For the last ten years, NS has had a policy for the rapid removal and cleaning of graffiti. When staff report graffiti or vandalism on a train and, if it is not on a regular scheduled service, it is removed and cleaned within 24 hours. 

However, as the NS network has attracted increasing numbers of passengers, the company has had to deploy its rolling stock more intensively. Thus, it can be difficult to always rapidly remove trains from service and a small percentage of carriages with graffiti do travel the network, albeit for only a matter of a few days. That the numbers of such carriages are small was confirmed by observation as a passenger on the NS network. Across a variety of lines and services, during our short visit, only one carriage was seen in service with spray paint graffiti. 

Design and Materials

The company identifies the design of stations and rolling stock and the choice of materials as important elements in preventing graffiti and vandalism. New stations and trains are open, bright and with clear sight lines. Stations and trains that are open and transparent in design tend to stay cleaner and graffiti-free. It is company policy to use materials in the construction of new or refurbished stations that can be easily cleaned and are robust against graffiti. For example, there is a preference not to use concrete since the spray paint is absorbed and is difficult to remove. 

A Bus stop in a Dutch town










As with other transport operators, Dutch graffiti is a growing problem that is proving difficult to tackle effectively. The use of film across the glass is one option and is said to be used in the Paris Metro4. Although film does protect the glass, the visual effect of the etching is greater. Also, the film would need to be replaced regularly (daily on some routes) and this would be difficult to achieve and costly. Another option would be to coat the window glass with a transparent paste. When scratched, the paste can be re-applied. The company said this option was expensive and, as yet, its effectiveness was not fully known. 

NS has been proactive in encouraging the planting of high bushes and fast growing vegetation on trackside walls. This has been very effective in reducing the opportunities for the perpetrators of graffiti. 

Enhancing the Legal Response
Within the last two years, the Netherlands Government has announced that tackling insecurity in the public domain is a priority issue. Vandalism and graffiti are identified as important elements for creating unsafe public environments and there has been increased awareness of these problems by the Courts and Criminal Justice System. 

As an important innovation, NS employ a magistrate within the company and she is a member of the security project team. The presence of a magistrate within the team has acted as an important catalyst for raising awareness in the Courts of the importance of security for quality and safe travel. The magistrate knew who and how to contact those within the criminal justice system and raise awareness of the seriousness of vandalism, graffiti, travel fraud and other crimes. Prior to her involvement, there was a perception that these problems were really a 'company' issue. It is now more widely acknowledged that these problems cannot be tackled effectively within society unless security on public transport is seen as an integral part of safety in the public domain. 

The company takes legal action against the perpetrator for repayment of the cost of the damage. If the perpetrator is a young person, monies may be sought from their parents or arrangements made for payment to be made when they are in employment. By whatever means, the company is very strict that arrangements have to be made for payment of the damage. This, in addition to the criminal process, is said to be very effective and can have a preventive impact in the message it sends to other vandals. 

Until recently, criminal damage was considered a minor offence in the Courts with the sentence of a fine and compensation. To calculate the compensation due, there is an agreement between the Justices and the police on the standard cost per square metre of damage. This standard cost includes cleaning and the monies lost by taking the rolling stock out of service. 

The Government has recently agreed that it can qualify as the more serious offence of 'public violence against persons or goods' with the scope for imposing a custodial sentence. 

Preventive Work in Schools
The company delivers programmes to young people in schools to deter misuse and dangerous behaviour and encourage responsible travel. 

One programme targets sixteen year olds and is about the consequences of violence against train staff. Nearly two-thirds of violent incidents towards staff involve people not travelling with a ticket or travelling without a valid ticket and some of these incidents involve those engaged in vandalism and graffiti. A ticket inspector who was severely assaulted has developed the programme. It includes a particularly effective and moving video that explores, in a story-format, the consequences of a severe assault for a man, his family and the perpetrator. 

A second programme is delivered by train drivers and is targeted at trackside incidents of trespass and vandalism. It includes a professionally produced video. This adopts a story-format to reveal how the activities of a group of young people playing by the track can escalate from play to vandalism by laying stones and other obstacles on the track. A young boy with the group then runs for his ball in the path of a fast-moving train and it is certain that he has been killed. Although he managed to jump clear, this is not known for some time. The focus is on the driver and the guard and the other young people expecting to find the body under the train. The video also shows other examples of dangerous behaviour, including: young adults sitting on the platform dangling their legs over the track, and a cyclist ignoring the red light to travel across a crossing with a train approaching. 

3.4 The Dutch Railway Police: Graffiti Co-ordination Team

Those responsible for graffiti have well-developed networks for information and communication. NS and the Railway Police identify the importance for those seeking to effectively tackle and prevent graffiti to access up-to-date and reliable information with the capacity to identify vulnerable locations and anticipate events. To be effective, the team identified the need for a co-ordinated and sustained approach of "cleaning and catching". 

The Dutch Railway Police are independent of NS, but work closely with the company. Within the Force, there is a team of four officers with a key role in registering graffiti and co-ordinating efforts to tackle graffiti and vandalism. Two years ago the team of officers was reduced to one. Although the registration of pieces and tags continued, there were little or no proactive measures to arrest the perpetrators. Recently, four officers were taken out of general service with the Railway Police and allocated to the Graffiti Co-ordination Team.

All incidents of graffiti - pieces and tags - are registered and analysed by the team using computer software. Information is exchanged between the Civilian and Railway Police. The Dutch Railway Police also benefit from Interpol arrangements that facilitate the exchange of information on graffiti and perpetrators across national borders. 

When a person or persons are apprehended for an incident of graffiti, a photograph is taken of the piece or tag and entered into the system to see if it matches any others that have been registered. The history of previous tags or pieces is made available to the Court, along with evidence of the current incident, and is taken into account in sentencing. 

3.5 Issues emerging from the initiative

As in other countries, the open sale of spray paints is perceived as a weakness in tackling graffiti. Spray paints can be purchased anywhere in the Netherlands, but they are expensive and many get stolen from open shelves. The police made an agreement with a shop in The Hague that they would take their spray paint cans off the open shelves. There was evidence that incidents of graffiti significantly decreased in the local area. 

NS and the Railway Police argue against 'legal' or 'permitted' walls to channel graffiti away from illegal sites. It is said that, in the graffiti culture, the real excitement and fame comes from tags and pieces on illegal sites. 'Legal' walls are where perpetrators practice their skills, but they do not stop using other sites. 

As in other countries, there is a problem with the walls of commercial buildings that back onto the railway tracks. The private owners of these buildings are often reluctant to spend money on removing the graffiti, especially when it is largely unseen by them and has little or no impact on their business.

4 Although on a visit in August 2001, the windows of many carriages in the Paris metro were observed to have been defaced by Dutch graffiti.


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## greg_christine (Jan 25, 2004)

*Case Study Report on Graffiti - Stockholm Transport*

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/grou...ts/page/dft_mobility_025965-06.hcsp#TopOfPage

Case Study Report on Graffiti

4. Stockholm Transport: A partnership approach

Stockholm Transport - AB Storstockholms Lokaltrafik (SL)- is owned by the County Council of Stockholm. SL's task is to provide passenger transport services to those living and working in the twenty-six municipalities of the County. It has responsibility for three bus companies, light rail and train operations and the Underground system. One million people travel on the network every day. The residents of Stockholm County are among the keenest users of public transport in Europe, with more than 70% of peak time commuters choosing to travel by public transport.

4.1 Scale of the problem

In 2000, the costs of removing graffiti and repairing incidents of vandalism exceeded SEK 100 million for the first time, an increase of more than 20% on 1999. These costs do not include the indirect costs of surveillance, preventive measures or delays to services. In 1999, the Underground was most affected. Bus infrastructure and vehicles accounted for the greatest increase between 1999 and 2000. 

Spray paint graffiti came to Sweden from the United States in 1986 when it figured prominently in the film 'Style Wars'. This film, shown in Sweden in 1986, was about graffiti crews in New York, featured hip hop music and targeted young people. There is said to be a significant difference between the perpetrators of today and those from the 1980s. The earlier perpetrators had informal codes about where to paint and not to paint. Today, graffiti has spread to cultural monuments, churches and historic buildings in the old city. 

There has been a growth of glass etching or Dutch graffiti, especially on train carriage windows. They have considered placing a film on the glass, but there are problems with fire regulations and this solution is expensive, as it requires the frequent replacement of the film. 

Acts of graffiti are carried out at all times, but afternoons and nights are preferred. In the daytime, the perpetrators focus on the train's central carriages as few passengers ride in these cars and they can work relatively undisturbed. At night, trains parked in the depots are the most vulnerable. 

Incidents of graffiti are often accompanied by other acts of vandalism. For example, two young people aged 15 years were apprehended in a tunnel after having switched the lights in a track signal. It is not uncommon for concrete posts to be placed on the track to give those engaged in graffiti warning of a train approaching as it hits or brakes to avoid these obstructions. In many accidents involving objects placed on the track, new graffiti has been found near the site. 

The vandalism is becoming more aggressive. The interiors of many carriages have been completely destroyed. Increasingly, spray paint images or pieces have been replaced by simply covering as many seats and walls as possible with paint. There is a significant trend away from artistic expression to destruction and violent behaviour. A video made by the perpetrators shows a whole train being 'bombed' with graffiti and vandalised. The images and the words accompanying the music on the video are aggressive and violent. Perpetrators have been apprehended carrying heavy sticks, rocks tied by rope and knives. Personal information about those employed to apprehend the perpetrators and tackle graffiti and vandalism is circulated on the Internet. 

Although those arrested for graffiti include those from other countries in Europe, the United States and Australia, most of the perpetrators are from Sweden and Stockholm County. The perpetrators of the graffiti are usually boys or young men, aged between 12 and 18 years, and come from families across social classes and income groups. There are also perpetrators as young as nine and as old as forty. The older men often provide 'role models' for the young people. 

Recently, more girls and young women are involved in graffiti and now have their own crews or gangs. Girls are said to choose tags that mean something to them, whilst boys will pick tags that are easy to write and look good. Although only accounting for a small minority of the perpetrators, there are an increasing number of second and third generation young people whose families have immigrated to Sweden. 

A small number of prolific perpetrators are responsible for about 80% of all incidents on the SL network. As an example of prolific and long term offending, two perpetrators were apprehended aged 29 and 30 years of age and known from their tags to be responsible for many incidents. Both had started with graffiti when they were 14 and continued in their activities for fifteen years. When apprehended, both were in regular employment and one had a young family. 

The perpetrators in gangs or crews are usually well organised and well prepared. Many wear masks and gloves, the latter to avoid getting paint on their fingers to aid detection. Their spray paints and other materials are often hidden earlier by the trackside to avoid carrying them to and from the site. Lookouts will often be posted on the platforms. The perpetrators may take two or three hours moving between stations in an attempt to mislead the police and security. 

Evidence gathered by those apprehending the perpetrators have revealed that many of the young people engaged in graffiti will also use illegal drugs (mainly cannabis, but increasingly ecstasy as well) and alcohol. The solvents in the spray paints can be an addiction. Those involved regularly in graffiti are often also engaged in other forms of criminal activity. 

There are serious accidents, even fatalities, involving those engaged in graffiti. Young people of 11 or 12 years of age have been apprehended only a few inches from the live rail. Often they are unaware that the rail remains live at night or that trains travel through the tunnels at that time. Young people have been known to surf on trains and hang out of the windows to spray paint. Injuries to themselves or their friends do not act as a deterrent. To spray paint in a very dangerous site increases their credibility within the sub-culture. 

4.2 A county-wide partnership 

SL works closely with other public, private and voluntary agencies in a partnership approach to tackle graffiti and vandalism. SL is a major contributor to the anti-graffiti network in Stockholm County that includes: local authorities; police; fire department; schools; housing corporations; attorneys; community representatives; the Swedish State Railways; the National Rail Administration; the National Road Administration; electricity companies; and the Post Office. The purpose is to exchange experiences and co-ordinate action. In several municipalities, there are local meetings held with school staff, parents, politicians and youth workers. 

In Stockholm, all the City departments co-ordinate their activities to rapidly remove graffiti. The City Council has good liaison with SL and there have been joint projects, such as letters to property owners and businesses with property near to the Metro to report graffiti to the police and the importance of recording the tags and pieces. 

A policy has been agreed by the County Governor and others that takes a public stand against 'legal walls' and so-called 'graffiti schools' where such activities are taught within art education programmes. A booklet warning of the dangers and consequences of graffiti has been sent to all 38,000 households in Stockholm with children aged 11 to 13 years. The City has also contributed financially to an anti-graffiti campaign on television that targeted young people. 

4.3 SL based initiatives

In 1993, the SL Executive Board agreed an action plan and budget for 'Operation Safety' for crime prevention and law enforcement on public transport in Stockholm.

Rapid Cleaning and Removal

It is company policy to remove graffiti and repair vandalism as soon as practical. When there is graffiti on a bus or train, it will be taken out of service and cleaned within twenty-four hours. If the graffiti is on a station or trackside, it will be removed as soon as possible. SL employs a hundred staff for the rapid cleaning of graffiti. There are cleaning staff available for twenty-four hours a day and seven days a week. 

From observation of travelling by bus and train in Stockholm, there were very few examples of graffiti on the rolling stock. 

Design Measures

In response to graffiti and vandalism, SL now uses more robust materials for the interiors of train carriages to make them easier to clean and restore. New rolling stock, especially on the Metro, is designed with open carriages, clear sight sights, and good lighting and visibility. 

The Stockholm underground system was inaugurated in 1950. From the start, artists were involved in providing interiors for the stations that would 'make underground travel an experience instead of just a means of transport'. There was a dual purpose - the artists believed these interiors could both provide an enhanced travel experience and 'counteract vandalism'. 

Public Art Features in the Stockholm Metro



















Following the competition to decorate the main T-Centralen station announced in 1956, the process was judged to be a success and more stations became the focus of artistic design. Today, sculptures, mosaics and paintings can be found in ninety of the Metro's hundred stations, most in chambers shaped from solid rock. Some 140 artists have contributed to the Metro's permanent art exhibition and many more have contributed to temporary art features. SL invests SEK 19 millions a year in developing and safeguarding this artwork, including from graffiti and vandalism. 

Preventive Work in Schools

To prevent the recruitment of young people into graffiti, SL has more than thirty school representatives employed by the company to visit all schools and talk to Year 5 and 6 students. Those representatives who visit the schools are bus and train drivers. SL's school representatives have an important role in reaching out to young people and in guiding and informing teachers and parents.

Falck Security

Falck Security is a private company that is contracted by SL to provide plain clothes security guards to patrol the rail and underground network. The guards will carry out a citizen's arrest to apprehend the perpetrators of criminal activities, including vandalism and graffiti. It is based on a similar operation in Oslo where a private security company was hired to work in plain clothes to detect and apprehend vandals. It was found that this approach was much more effective than patrolling in uniform. 

The Falck Vandal Squad in Stockholm was established in 1996. Initially, it was a small team that spent time learning the graffiti sub-culture and gathering intelligence. Today, there are many more guards in the Vandal Squad and they operate twenty four hours a day and seven days a week. 

Since March 1996, the Vandal Squad has apprehended 900 young people in the act of vandalism and graffiti. On a targeted operation, Falck Security has apprehended up to thirty people engaged in acts of criminal damage, including those on 'look-out' for security or the police. To be apprehended, the person does not have to have a can of spray paint in their hand, but to be acting together with those engaged in the graffiti. 

The Vandal Squad meets regularly with the Justices to raise awareness of the scale and seriousness of the problems on the public transport network. 

4.4 Stockholm Subway Police

The Subway Police was first set up in 1967 and by the mid-1980s had 170 officers. It was disbanded in 1994 during a major re-structuring of the Stockholm Police Force. At that time, the Stockholm police were re-organised into eight new districts and each district included responsibility for public transport, including the Metro. However, in 1998. it was decided that specialist skills were needed to police the underground and the Subway Police were reinstated, although not at the same strength. 

A new bus shelter in a residential district of Stockholm vandalised with a tag and scratched glass










Cover of the booklet circulated to families across Stockholm to raise awareness of the dangers and cost of graffiti and vandalism 










The Subway Graffiti Unit was set up in February 2000, initially with five officers and currently with nine. The Unit gathers intelligence on all incidents of graffiti, with tags and pieces registered on a database. There is a Scandinavian network for exchanging information and intelligence and the Unit contributes to this. 

Although each of the police districts remains responsible for investigating an incident and bringing charges, the Graffiti Unit will inform, advise and co-ordinate these activities. The Unit will also carry out its own investigation and prosecute when the offence is known to be the work of a prolific perpetrator responsible for many incidents. 

The Graffiti Unit has a meeting once a week with Falck Security to exchange information and co-ordinate operations. Initially, relationships between the Graffiti Unit and Falck were strained, but this has much improved with regular communication, and the security guards now attend a one day's training with the police. 

4.5 Lugna Gathan - Calm Streets

Lugna Gathan is a voluntary sector initiative that developed in 1995, initially through the involvement of SL. As mentioned earlier, major changes in the structure of the Stockholm police meant there was no longer a Subway Police force to patrol the underground network. SL was faced with two alternatives - either to employ security guards or to try a different approach. As a consequence Calm Streets was funded by SL, with unemployed and disadvantaged young people recruited and employed to patrol the network. 

Calm Streets has now extended its funding and activities to work in schools and within the community to help young people who are the victims of crime and at risk of offending. Most of the young people that Calm Streets works with are between 15 and 19 years. It has a Board of Management that includes the Mayor of Stockholm, the Chief of Police, a representative from SL and community representatives.

On the Metro, there are about sixty young people who patrol the network in pairs. They are there to assist passengers and enhance their feelings of safety, but not to apprehend troublemakers. There are concerns from SL about the deployment and efficiency of these patrols. Calm Streets also has a role in working with young people who hang about the Metro system and stations. They talk to these young people, gain their trust and attempt to engage them in constructive activities. Such interventions are said to prevent offending behaviour in the wider community, including on the Metro system.

The ethos of Calm Streets is to recruit people who are representative of the young people they work with. That is to employ people with similar life experiences and ethnicity and live in the same geographical areas in Stockholm County. There is said to be a great deal of frustration among young people, especially those who come from immigrant communities, because those working for the police and other official organisations do not reflect the diversity of Stockholm's present day residents. Calm Streets wanted to break this pattern and give those socially excluded young people an opportunity to access employment and act as positive role models to other young people from economically disadvantaged communities. 

It was hoped that, through the experience of working for Calm Streets, these young adults would move on to access other employment, for example in the police or fire services or Falck Security. Originally, the maximum period working for Calm Streets was to have been two years. However, many have not moved on but are still employed with Calm Streets as adults, some with family responsibilities. 

About a hundred people are now employed in Calm Streets, with most employees aged between 20 and 30 years. The staff employed by Calm Streets speak more than thirty different languages and they employ people from many different ethnic and religious groups. Everyone in the organisation wears a distinctive shirt and jacket. As well as its citywide role in patrolling the Metro, Calm Streets works within the community in fifteen Stockholm suburbs.

Calm Streets can be invited by a school to help with problems of offending or anti-social behaviour, including vandalism, and drug misuse. Currently, it is working in about ten different schools. The approach is to begin by talking to the young people about their problems, the kind of incidents that occur and who are responsible. Time will be taken building up the trust of the young people before discussing issues with the teachers and bringing them together. 

Calm Streets will work with the young people to develop a group of students to represent the school. Anyone can apply to be in this group, whether they have been responsible for past incidents or not. Calm Streets have found that "the troublemakers are often the ones who can solve the problems". However, once a member of that group, they have to take responsibility and provide a good role model for other students and attend school. Calm Streets will provide classes in anger management and conflict resolution. The police and other agencies will be involved to help raise awareness of drug misuse and the consequences of offending behaviour. Calm Streets will also involve the parents and support them and the young person who has been involved in offending behaviour or been the victim of crime. 

4.6 Issues emerging from the initiative

The experience of SL and the Stockholm police is that 'legal walls' merely provide practice sites for the perpetrators of graffiti who will prefer and continue to use illegal sites. Those involved in graffiti do not use the Internet as a substitute medium but as means of communication and for extending publicity for their pieces and tags. With more transport operators adopting a policy of rapid removal of graffiti, perpetrators increasingly see the Internet as a more permanent arena for the display of their pieces and tags. 

The free availability of spray paints remains a problem. In Stockholm, there is a shop specialising in spray paint selling the cans at cheaper prices to those who are members through their regular involvement in graffiti. Despite attempts by the authorities to restrict or stop the trade, this shop is said to be selling about 30,000 cans of spray paint a week. Changes in legislation that provided for restrictions on the open sale of spray paints would be effective. 

Advertising and the media can give out mixed messages that suggest graffiti is acceptable. SL has an agreement with the local media that pictures of graffiti will not be shown as this only fuels the perpetrator's desire for acknowledgement and publicity. 

The language used in describing graffiti and how it is tackled is important. In Stockholm, it is considered important not to refer to the response as a 'war' as this is aligned to the culture of violence and aggression increasingly adopted by the perpetrators. 

There is little scope for intervention for a young person engaged in their first act of vandalism or graffiti. 

If the police or Falck Security apprehend a person of 15 years or younger, the only recourse is for a social worker to contact the young person and their parents. This can only result in one visit and the young person may not receive the message that such activities are serious and unacceptable. The Graffiti Team with the Subway Police have developed a proposal to work with young people aged between 10 and 13 years who have offended for the first time. If this proposal is developed, it will involve meetings with the young person and their parents to talk through the incident and explain the consequences of re-offending and reinforce parental responsibility. 

Parents, teachers and youth workers in particular should learn to spot the early signs of a child's or young person's engagement with graffiti. There can be important signs from scribbles in a school book that could suggest the beginnings of an attraction with the sub-culture. 

It is often difficult to get the criminal justice system and the Courts to respond to graffiti with sufficient seriousness. The police, the Swedish Association of Local Authorities and SL have suggested a number of changes to the criminal code. In particular, that the maximum sentence should be one year's imprisonment and not six months as currently. Also, that the stop and search powers should be extended to permit the police to search suspected perpetrators for spray paint cans. It is hoped that some of these changes will go before the Swedish Parliament.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Mr. Jacob, the new SKM trains look pretty slick! I would be surprised it anyone paint them!


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## danthediscoman (Feb 8, 2006)

I would rather see talented exterior graffiti art on the Chicago trains than those stupid full car exterior ads that are now popular. Vandals?...sure...but talented vandals!


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## Mr.JACOB (May 8, 2005)

WANCH said:


> Mr. Jacob, the new SKM trains look pretty slick! I would be surprised it anyone paint them!


WARSAW SKM










GDANSK SKM


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## Zaki (Apr 16, 2005)

I have never seen any graffiti on any Toronto subway trains, metro trains, or trams. Graffiti really isn't a big problem in Toronto.


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## Third of a kind (Jun 20, 2004)

greg_christine said:


> ALL GRAFFITI WRITERS ARE STUPID PEOPLE!!!
> 
> I find it remarkable that some people are so self-absorbed that they think of their acts of vandalism as having artistic value!


now this here

this is a prime example of "the public" putting down something that they don't understand and cannot be apart of. thats the problem people who can't particpate in art always what to say what art is or isn't.


Who are you to determine if a blockbuster, or a burner has no artistic value. With ignorant statements like that you obviously are unaware of the aesthetic's of art in general. I'm not saying graffiti, i'm saying art because thats what it is. Sure not all of it is good, but are all paintings on canvases good? are all etchings made with the skill of rembrandt? Does every writer have the soul of Cope? no

maybe you need to get out of your house, or town more my dude


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Third of a kind said:


> now this here
> 
> this is a prime example of "the public" putting down something that they don't understand and cannot be apart of. thats the problem people who can't particpate in art always what to say what art is or isn't.
> 
> ...


Cope gets alot of respect in NY! But there are some who said that Cope paid off the MTA just to paint a full train in his documentary!


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## greg_christine (Jan 25, 2004)

Third of a kind said:


> ...this is a prime example of "the public" putting down something that they don't understand and cannot be apart of. thats the problem people who can't particpate in art always what to say what art is or isn't.
> ...


This is the classic claim made by those seeking to intellectualize crap into art. The claim is made, "If you don't like it, you don't understand it!" The reality is that common sense still applies. The reality is, "If it looks like crap, it is crap!" Graffiti on trains is worse than crap. It is vandalism. If a preference for graffiti-free trains marks me as a Philistine, I'll wear the label proudly.


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## palindrome (Nov 25, 2004)

I can't stand graffiti. Art my ass. Go graffiti some paper in your own house, while i ride a nice clean train.


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## Zaki (Apr 16, 2005)

Graffiti may appear as art but what graffiti is painted on makes it vandalism. You cannot paint on someone elses property without their permission. There are laws agaisnt it.


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## zivan56 (Apr 29, 2005)

I have yet to see a Vancouver Skytrain car with outside graffiti, and I have been taking it every day for years. I don't know where you found that pic, but it looks like one of the employees did that (as the car was being prepped for painting for the new Translink logo, which would have resided in the area that is clear if it were complete). Cargo trains/cars are almost 100% covered in graffiti though...


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## _zner_ (May 24, 2005)

dont you just love the graffiti`s?? its an art for me..


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

(((myx))) said:


> dont you just love the graffiti`s?? its an art for me..


Here's some on Manila's commuter trains 



















and a bonus


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## Mr.JACOB (May 8, 2005)

greg_christine said:


> This is the classic claim made by those seeking to intellectualize crap into art. The claim is made, "If you don't like it, you don't understand it!" The reality is that common sense still applies. The reality is, "If it looks like crap, it is crap!" Graffiti on trains is worse than crap. It is vandalism. If a preference for graffiti-free trains marks me as a Philistine, I'll wear the label proudly.


Hey Greg i told u allready u are a dickhead u dont remember ?

I dont know i found thi photo somewhere it it u Greg or is it some of ur friends??


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## Third of a kind (Jun 20, 2004)

greg_christine said:


> This is the classic claim made by those seeking to intellectualize crap into art. The claim is made, "If you don't like it, you don't understand it!" The reality is that common sense still applies. The reality is, "If it looks like crap, it is crap!" Graffiti on trains is worse than crap. It is vandalism. If a preference for graffiti-free trains marks me as a Philistine, I'll wear the label proudly.



Apparently you didn't read or comprehend what I said. Miscomprehension is a sign of illiteracy

I and i'm sure no one else has a problem with your preference for Clean trains, but what I have a problem with is how you addressed all writers with ignorance and stupdity. Your probably the type who watches that old nun talk about what art is, or rely on a text books verbatim to make up your mind

you probably need to get out of the country or something man
later


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## greg_christine (Jan 25, 2004)

Resorting to personal attacks is a sign of not having anything intelligent to say.


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## Third of a kind (Jun 20, 2004)

greg_christine said:


> Resorting to personal attacks is a sign of not having anything intelligent to say.





greg_christine said:


> ALL GRAFFITI WRITERS ARE STUPID PEOPLE!!!
> 
> I find it remarkable that some people are so self-absorbed that they think of their acts of vandalism as having artistic value!


Hey Greg, apparently you are right. Thanks for using yourself as a sign of someone without any intellegence on these boards.

Do yourself a favor and remember that when your tightening your dunce and sitting in your house eating some of that ham under your confederate flag country boy.

i'm done with this thread peace.


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## Mr.JACOB (May 8, 2005)

Third of a kind said:


> Hey Greg, apparently you are right. Thanks for using yourself as a sign of someone without any intellegence on these boards.
> 
> Do yourself a favor and remember that when your tightening your dunce and sitting in your house eating some of that ham under your confederate flag country boy.
> 
> i'm done with this thread peace.


NICE ONE :rofl: :applause: :applause: :applause:


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## beta29 (Sep 30, 2004)

In Berlin "European capital of graffiti" it gets even more worse!
























































So you see it´s a very big problem here.....


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## staff (Oct 23, 2004)

I love Berlin.


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

Wow Berlin is... the king :scouserd: 

In 80's Paris metro was the one of best for graffiti (Some station was completely degraded like Louvre Rivoli in 1991 and in 1992 hno: ) but now graffiti are immediately cleaned. :banana: 

Now only tunnels closed stations and advertisements are some graffiti.


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## Dreamliner (Jul 18, 2005)

*If the "artist" does his work on his own property, or on the property of others with their permission, that's fine. Otherwise, they are simply egotistical, selfish vandals. The latest problem here in NYC's subway is that now these "artists" have resorted to etching window's of train's with a type of acid. Resulting in completely obscuring and permanently ruining the window. The MTA is experimenting with an acid-resistant coating to eliminate the problem. I must say, the problem has been greatly reduced, not only on the subway, but in the neighborhoods as well. *


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## mankawabi (Dec 30, 2005)

In San Juan's (Puerto Rico) Metro (Tren Urbano), graffiti is nonexistent  The trains are as clean and pretty as they come. People respect them.


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## Taylorhoge (Feb 5, 2006)

Yeah Tren Urbano has nothing on it but outside the metro system graff is everywhere especially Hato Rey,Carolina,Ocean Park.
NYC is being written over now by artists from Europe.


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## mankawabi (Dec 30, 2005)

^^ Yep, sadly that's true. But I think the level of civility people have shown in the T.U. is amazing. Now if we could only get them to respect the city as much as they do the trains... San Juan would be the neatest city on Earth.


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## Taylorhoge (Feb 5, 2006)

yeah but taht wont come true becuase of the amount of graff artists throughout the metro.If Basquit is having a showing at the modern museum and theyre letting artists tag the wall facing 26 then I highly doubt that its going to die in the metro.


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## invincible (Sep 13, 2002)

Dreamliner61 said:


> *If the "artist" does his work on his own property, or on the property of others with their permission, that's fine. Otherwise, they are simply egotistical, selfish vandals. The latest problem here in NYC's subway is that now these "artists" have resorted to etching window's of train's with a type of acid. Resulting in completely obscuring and permanently ruining the window. The MTA is experimenting with an acid-resistant coating to eliminate the problem. I must say, the problem has been greatly reduced, not only on the subway, but in the neighborhoods as well. *


Many years ago, vandals in Melbourne would just kick the entire window out.

These days it's really been cleaned up though, drivers will pretty much refuse to drive a train with graffiti on the outside and the stuff on the inside gets cleaned up pretty quickly, but it does really look bad when stuff has been scratched onto the windows and walls and it looks like they just used a bit of sandpaper to obscure it. And because of idiots with knifes and other sharp objects, public transport vehicles no longer have soft seats with plenty of foam inside but instead what is essentially just a bit of fabric wrapped around plastic.

In Melbourne, there's heaps of places where graffiti is tolerated, or even encouraged. The rail network isn't one of them.


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## ♣628.finst (Jul 29, 2005)

palindrome said:


> I can't stand graffiti. Go graffiti some paper in your own house, while i ride a nice clean train.


Indeed. A neatly painted concrete wall or train wall do not require any graffiti to make it functional. Graffiti is a kind of vandalism. It should not be tolerated at all.


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## Iggui (May 17, 2005)

the santiago metro is graffiti free, though there is some scratching out of windows. there is some graffiti on some of the exterior entrances into the subway from the street level, but not the cars or stations themselves. unfortunately, there is extensive graffiti on the buses and the city in general . 

i'm not opposed to murals, but tagging just sucks.


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## luisdaniel (Mar 4, 2006)

^^^yep, Santiago metro none, but buses...


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## Jape (Feb 8, 2005)

We had the wildest times in the late 80's and early 90's, too. But then the city decided to get rid of graffiti definitively - even legally made graffitis were buffed in many places. Of course writers didn't give up and they are still doing them, but extremely stritch security policy has decreased the artistical quality of graffiti here.

Helsinki metro has been extremely stritcly secured and therefore almost almost graffiti free - I have seen only once a metro piece IRL and a few pictures. Tags, stickers and scrathed windows are really usual though, and outdoor stations get pieces and smaller throw ups pretty frequently.

But commuter trains have been easier to paint, especially in the olden days. I'd like to add some train pics but usually graffiti sites don't allow their material to get used without permission.

Anyway, I totally prefer graffiti (especially well-made pieces) to public adverts. Preferably I see stylish letter combinations, characters, etc in public city space than some damn leaflets that have only one function - to command us all to buy and buy. Beauty has nothing to do with the law in this case.

@Beta29 - Damn, Berlin seems to be really wild in that sense. This is just awesome!


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## beta29 (Sep 30, 2004)

Yes, it´s really chaotic here at the moment....it´ s getting more and more worse. The biggest problems in Berlin(and in whole Germany) are the laws, they´re just not hard enough. No one is really feared. We don´t have enough police because there´s no money. By the way the police has really nothing to say in some districts.....police cars are going to be sprayed or tagged(photo)

I read in a newspaper that Berlin is the city with the most graffiti in the world after New York. That´s scary because New York has nearly 4 times more inhabitants than Berlin.

The BVG(metro) and S-bahn are trying to clean the trains in 24 hours but they just don´t get it done! The S-bahn has more outside graffiti and scratching, the metro has problems with tagging, vandalism and scratching. We also have cameras in the metro trains but the trains look as bad as always.

Of course there are a lot of very good pieces in Berlin....I´m not a fan of vandalism and tagging but I like graffiti, when it really looks good

@Jape: That´s my metro station where I go to work every day....they just made it two weeks ago.....I have to say I love it!


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

Jape said:


> Anyway, I totally prefer graffiti (especially well-made pieces) to public adverts. Preferably I see stylish letter combinations, characters, etc in public city space than some damn leaflets that have only one function - to command us all to buy and buy. Beauty has nothing to do with the law in this case.
> 
> @Beta29 - Damn, Berlin seems to be really wild in that sense. This is just awesome!


Interesting 
In Paris public averts had serious problem with graffiti some years ago between 2002 and 2004.
Those graffiti was paint by anti-averts associations 
but RATP has do lawsuits against those associations.

_I don't sure that my last expression is very english_


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## Chicagoago (Dec 2, 2005)

I've never seen anything on any Chicago trains. Just the window scratching and marks on the inside of the trains. 

I was in Berlin last year and the level of graffiti in that city blew away anything else i've seen.


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## LosAngelesMetroBoy (Aug 13, 2006)

out here the commuter trains get a lil grafiti on them, but for the most part people just tag the insides of the busses


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## sfgadv02 (Apr 29, 2005)

Wow, and I thought NY was bad! With the new trains, we don't get a lot of scratching since there are plastic covers on them now.


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## [email protected] (Apr 28, 2004)

minato ku said:


> Interesting
> In Paris public averts had serious problem with graffiti some years ago between 2002 and 2004.
> Those graffiti was paint by anti-averts associations


Some examples in Paris in 2003


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## Ramses (Jun 17, 2005)

beta29 said:


>


Wow! That takes some courage.


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## Falubaz (Nov 20, 2004)

i would say 'stupid' and not 'couragous', but it's only my point of view


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## Nouvellecosse (Jun 4, 2005)

beta29 said:


> In Berlin "European capital of graffiti" it gets even more worse!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, I've always wondered how the police in Germany can afford to use expensive luxury cars as patrol vehicles.


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## Taylorhoge (Feb 5, 2006)

they arent really expensive in germany and the rest of Europe for that matter compared to North America they are baiscally Fords and Chevys. Iguess those cops were too busy eating doughnuts to pay attention to there cars.


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## maxxam80 (Apr 6, 2003)

lol a bmw is a lot lot cheaper in the USA than the UK


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## Nephasto (Feb 6, 2004)

Taylorhoge said:


> they arent really expensive in germany and the rest of Europe for that matter compared to North America they are baiscally Fords and Chevys.


:nuts: :weird:


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## Peloso (May 17, 2006)

minato ku said:


> Interesting
> In Paris public averts had serious problem with graffiti some years ago between 2002 and 2004.


In Paris - as in most cities in the world - the problem is too often the ad boards (humiliating our intellect all the time), and not the graffiti.


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## Jape (Feb 8, 2005)

minato ku said:


> Interesting
> In Paris public averts had serious problem with graffiti some years ago between 2002 and 2004.
> Those graffiti was paint by anti-averts associations
> but RATP has do lawsuits against those associations.


I think I've see a document about those French anti-advert associations. First I thought they are just some stupid vandals who see themselves as heroes who fight for what's right. But they actually have some good points - who really has right to decide how our everyday environment is like? Some advertisers who just want to get your money?


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## Skabbymuff (Mar 4, 2006)

^ thats exactly what i wrote my dissertation about at university  'graffiti and advertising in our public spaces, why is one accepted and the other not'. was interesting to note the similarities of both their goals, and methods.


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## city_thing (May 25, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Some examples in Paris in 2003


I wish such attacks on adverts would happen more often. Especially here in Australia.


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## Tubeman (Sep 12, 2002)

On a related subject we had a grisly incident on my line while I was on Annual leave: On January 12th a group of 4 graffiti writers were chased from Barking Sidings by security, and 2 of them ran into the path of a westbound District Line train and were killed. The 2 survivors banged on the driver's door and started shouting that he'd just killed their mates... errr, like as if he could swerve... its pretty obvious who they have to blame for being dead.

The poor driver is only 23 bless him, a really nice lad... Now the BTP want to arrest him because (under instruction) he moved the train to Barking platform before the emergency services arrived. So great, you kill 2 people because they were stupid enough to run in front of your train, you then get harssed by their mates, and then get arrested for your trouble. And people wonder why Tube drivers get paid so much.

This is the second accidental 'double' one-under in as many months, 2 people fell under a train at my station (Earl's Court) just before Christmas.

Fucking idiots :bash:


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## Taylorhoge (Feb 5, 2006)

New York hasnt had a major death of graff artists since the 80s


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## beta29 (Sep 30, 2004)

some more Berlin stuff:























The famous 1UP crew fom Berlin Kreuzberg, with the most graffiti in Berlin
Also seen in Britain, France, Sweden, Belgium, Netherlands, Finland, Poland, Italy, Greece....














....


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## Jape (Feb 8, 2005)

beta29 said:


> some more Berlin stuff:
> http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/8127/wcwocheb1545co0.jpg


I wonder if your train depots are secured at all - those writers seem to have time to do their work really carefully.


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## beta29 (Sep 30, 2004)

Jape said:


> I wonder if your train depots are secured at all - those writers seem to have time to do their work really carefully.


Yes, the depots are well secured but a big part of the trains are standing outside at night!


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## FallenGuard (Nov 2, 2006)

LOL @ the Graffitie'd Cow! :lol:


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## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

There is almost no graffiti on trains or trams in Estonia and even if there is any, it is cleaned quite fast. But some examples:


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## Nikom (Sep 24, 2005)

In Lisbon graffiti is not a big problem,but there are many trains with graffiti's


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## Jean Luc (Mar 23, 2006)

Taylorhoge said:


> Well Im srry I was a little drunk so I may have condricted myself.
> However yes it is apart of it but most writers and artist find it unattractive at least from what I have seen and the guys in London RIP im srry for what I said before about them.However to greg you cant stop graffiti and that even i you do stop your city from doing that it wont bother me I like what I do becuase it defies mainstream and I like art and the fact Im doing it with a spraypaint can and thats my opinion so whether you like it or not thats the way it is.


Well then the only way to stop you is to arrest you and throw you in jail where you belong, you scum.



Tubeman said:


> Oh, and yet another suspected writer got squished by one of our trains at Barking last night, that's three fatalities in a month and yet another traumatised driver. Good job young man... well bloody done! You've wrecked a driver's life and that of your family for the sake of some shitty tags which will be buffed off before they even hit passenger service.


Well said.


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## Taylorhoge (Feb 5, 2006)

Okay then do it then..... Like I said before I dont care what people think Ill do it and threatining over the internet is really imature


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## xAKxRUSx (Mar 7, 2006)

^^ Again, not a threat, but don't be surprised if one day your face is full of paint... or your face is behind bars.


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## Taylorhoge (Feb 5, 2006)

how it will it be full of paint it comes out of a spray can


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## xAKxRUSx (Mar 7, 2006)

^^ Spray the can in one location (like a cup) and the paint will add up. Finish the whole can, and you'll have some paint in your cup.


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## Jape (Feb 8, 2005)

xAKxRUSx said:


> Well obviously it's a great idea to go around smashing windows of those cars. Obviously. Or maybe just spray paint them? Yea, thats a great idea. I don't like it, so I am going to show it by vandalizing it.


Now, you totally misunderstood my point. I don't like cars and adverts, but _I'm not smashing them_. I just think public discussion is needed.



xAKxRUSx said:


> Public property belongs to everyone.


Yeah, it certainly does. But why is it owned by advertising companies then?



Jean Luc said:


> With public property like trains and railway stations these vandals do not receive permission from the owners (the public) before committing their acts


Do you really think that public property like trains and railway stations are now owned by the public? Hell no. Average citizens have no possibilities to affect legally how public city space should be like.

And I'm not talking about just graffiti here, but all sorts of art. Graffiti is just the most radical antithesis to all that advertising. I'd be so happy to see photo galleries, all kinds of paintings, drawings, etc. in public city space - something that is made by citizens, not by advertising companies.

Oh, heck I hate the atmosphere of these discussions. I'm neither smashing others property here nor wishing to jail those who disagree with me.


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## Taylorhoge (Feb 5, 2006)

xAKxRUSx said:


> ^^ Spray the can in one location (like a cup) and the paint will add up. Finish the whole can, and you'll have some paint in your cup.


That takes a while for that to happen. Well said Jape I dont do it for the crime I do it for the art.


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## greg_christine (Jan 25, 2004)

http://www.qgazette.com/news/2006/1108/features/002.html

Graffiti Vandal Arrest Hailed 
BY RICHARD GENTILVISO 

Oliver Siandre, aka Kiko, is going to jail. As the 114th Police Precinct announced its 103rd graffiti arrest, leading the city, it was also announced that the notorious graffiti vandal has pleaded guilty to 28 counts of criminal mischief for spraying his Kiko tag on some 50 sites in Astoria. The announcements were made at the October meeting of the 114th Precinct Community Council. 

Siandre took a plea deal on October 19 in Queens Supreme Court. Judge Barry Kron sentenced him to six months in prison and a fine of $25,000 for the damage he caused. Siandre turned down an earlier plea deal for one to three years in prison. He was facing up to seven years if convicted. 

"We were calling for a little bit more jail time," said Andrew Moesel, communications director for Councilmember Peter Vallone Jr. However, according to the district attorney's office, more jail time would have made Siandre eligible for parole with restitution, Moesel said. 

"[Siandre] will be in jail for four to six months, and he will have to pay back the community," said Moesel. "Hopefully, this will set a good precedent." Vallone Jr. led the fight to prosecute Kiko. "For someone like Kiko who did literally thousands of dollars of damage, we think he deserves jail time," said Moesel. 

Captain Christopher Tamola, executive officer of the 114th Precinct, said Siandre was also sentenced to four and one half years probation. "He can be sent back [to prison] if he violates his probation," Tamola said. 

Tamola, in reporting that the precinct had just made the 103rd graffiti arrest so far this year, said there have also been 190 graffiti cleanups this year. He credited the 114th Civilian Observation Patrol and Jim and Barbara Pollock. "They are our point people in the graffiti effort," he said.


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## xAKxRUSx (Mar 7, 2006)

Jape said:


> Now, you totally misunderstood my point. I don't like cars and adverts, but _I'm not smashing them_. I just think public discussion is needed.


No, I understood your point, I was just making another point by making an extreme example. Just so I can get the point across clearer




Jape said:


> Yeah, it certainly does. But why is it owned by advertising companies then?


Because they pay obnoxious amounts of money to put those ads up... and if you read my previous posts, you'll see that part of that money goes to the government... which in turn goes to schools, etc.

And yes. We might want to restrict some advertising space... maybe limit it. We should discuss this.

But you also need to remember that no one is making you buy the products. You can just simply ignore it.

But yea, maybe discussion is needed. Maybe we should limit the amount of ads per some area... etc.




Jape said:


> Do you really think that public property like trains and railway stations are now owned by the public? Hell no. Average citizens have no possibilities to affect legally how public city space should be like.


Well actually, the public has a lot of say. There are neighborhood meetings, public hearings, polls, votes, etc. You just have to get involved.

Whether or not the public has enough time, or cares, is another thing.

But one this is for certain, is that most people dislike graffitti and don't want to see it.



Jape said:


> And I'm not talking about just graffiti here, but all sorts of art. Graffiti is just the most radical antithesis to all that advertising. I'd be so happy to see photo galleries, all kinds of paintings, drawings, etc. in public city space - something that is made by citizens, not by advertising companies.


More art, actual art, would be great. Like something like Moscow's Metro or Athens Metro... thats really amazing.
But that costs a lot of money.



Jape said:


> Oh, heck I hate the atmosphere of these discussions. I'm neither smashing others property here nor wishing to jail those who disagree with me.


I didn't mean to offend you, or say that you go around smashing property. I gave that example to help bring my point across. Please try reading it again, and see if you can understand the point I was putting across. Maybe I could have worded it better... but hopefully you can see what I was saying now.


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## Jean Luc (Mar 23, 2006)

Vandals are useless, worthless, good-for-nothing low-lifes who think they have the god given right to do whatever they like, regardless of what anyone else thinks, and not be held responsible for it. This is the same kind of thinking that young children have - selfish, self-indulgent, self-centred, which is what vandals are. Children grow out of this but vandals maintain this mentality thanks to the army of do-gooders who make up excuses for their appalling behaviour.


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## Jean Luc (Mar 23, 2006)

Jape said:


> Yeah, it certainly does. But why is it owned by advertising companies then?


They don't own public space. They lease it for a certain amount of time, which they pay for. When that time is up, the ads are removed. There is a difference between owning and leasing, one that you're obviously unaware of.



Jape said:


> Do you really think that public property like trains and railway stations are now owned by the public? Hell no.


Public authorities operate trains, stations etc on our behalf, and they have never given permission for any of the (illegal) grafitti to be done, which is what makes it illegal.



Jape said:


> Average citizens have no possibilities to affect legally how public city space should be like.


Really?? Just shows how ignorant you are. Citizens in cities the world over have been successful in preventing developments from going ahead that they didn't want e.g. freeways, high-rise buildings, demolition of old historic buildings. Sometimes they used illegal means, other times legal ones e.g. the ballot box.



Jape said:


> I'd be so happy to see photo galleries, all kinds of paintings, drawings, etc. in public city space


Which would probably be vandalised in short order. There are murals (legal wall paintings) here in Sydney which have been grafittied, requiring them to be cleaned. As a result, they are now covered in a transparent grafitti-resistant coating, in order to protect them i.e. allow easy cleaning without damaging the mural. Other things like sculptures and statues have also been vandalsied. So much for vandals respecting public art.



Jape said:


> Oh, heck I hate the atmosphere of these discussions.


Then nick off.



Jape said:


> I'm neither smashing others property here nor wishing to jail those who disagree with me.


Jail is appropriate punishment for perpetrators of serious damage, or repeat offenders.


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## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

Jape hates the atmosphere because of people like you, Jean Luc, who can't disguss things without insulting others....

Edit: I have a question for you guys....If I buy an advertisement space on a tram, for example, and paint it in graffiti style, would it still be an ugly and bad thing to do?


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## Jape (Feb 8, 2005)

xAKxRUSx said:


> Because they pay obnoxious amounts of money to put those ads up... and if you read my previous posts, you'll see that part of that money goes to the government... which in turn goes to schools, etc.


At least here money to schools, public healthcare, etc. come from taxpayers taxes, not from advertising companies. Sure they pay for their advertising space, but it should be citizens who decide, not money.



xAKxRUSx said:


> But you also need to remember that no one is making you buy the products. You can just simply ignore it.


Yes, but isn't it pity that public space is full of things that are worth ignoring? Wouldn't it be better if it was full of pieces of art, something that awakes thoughts and feelings?



xAKxRUSx said:


> But yea, maybe discussion is needed. Maybe we should limit the amount of ads per some area... etc.


We definitely should. I don't know about other cities, but here the amount of adverts has increased constantly. For example in one metro station a big legally made mural has been covered with a Coca Cola banner - and that's not an exceptional case.



xAKxRUSx said:


> Well actually, the public has a lot of say. There are neighborhood meetings, public hearings, polls, votes, etc. You just have to get involved.
> 
> Whether or not the public has enough time, or cares, is another thing.


Yes. People should take care of our everyday environment. I know that sounds naive, but that's just how it is.

And I dare to state that modern day consumption culture doens't encourage us to care about such things. 



xAKxRUSx said:


> But one this is for certain, is that most people dislike graffitti and don't want to see it.


It depends. At least here legally made murals have been liked, even among those who otherwise don't like graffiti and taggings.



xAKxRUSx said:


> More art, actual art, would be great. Like something like Moscow's Metro or Athens Metro... thats really amazing.
> But that costs a lot of money.


It doesn't have to be like in Moscow or Athens. Some students from art-related schools may do it for free. Also, when checking some websites where people may publish their self-made art, it easy to see that our world is full of talented "underground artists" whose work should get more public attention. Metro stations, pedestrian tunnels etc. aren't certainly the worst places for them.



xAKxRUSx said:


> I didn't mean to offend you, or say that you go around smashing property. I gave that example to help bring my point across. Please try reading it again, and see if you can understand the point I was putting across. Maybe I could have worded it better... but hopefully you can see what I was saying now.


Ok. 

@ Jean Luc: It's not forbidden to listen what others are trying to say - even if their views differ from yours. That's what people call conversation.


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## greg_christine (Jan 25, 2004)

Rebasepoiss said:


> ....
> 
> Edit: I have a question for you guys....If I buy an advertisement space on a tram, for example, and paint it in graffiti style, would it still be an ugly and bad thing to do?


Commercial advertising that looks like graffiti has been done:

















The major difference between such ads and actual graffiti is that the property owner has given permission and is being compensated. This is one of the things that I don't understand about the creators of graffiti. Why would they risk arrest when they could actually get paid to do similar work? Don't try to tell me that actual graffiti is any more artistic than advertising. It takes a lot more talent and effort to make a decent looking ad than most of the graffiti tags that I have seen.

The following article is about a Sony ad campaign that attempted to mimic graffiti:

http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,69741,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1

_Sony Draws Ire With PSP Graffiti

By Ryan Singel| Also by this reporter
02:00 AM Dec, 05, 2005

Seeking to market its handheld game device to hip city dwellers, Sony has hired graffiti artists in major urban areas to spray-paint buildings with simple, totemic images of kids playing with the gadget. But the guerrilla marketing gambit appears to be drawing scorn from some of the street-savvy hipsters it's striving to win over.

Coming on the heels of widely publicized news that Sony music CDs infected customers' computers with security-hole-inducing spyware, the campaign for the PlayStation Portable is being derided on the internet as an attempt to buy the credibility of street art.

In San Francisco, critics have expressed their disapproval by adding some spray paint of their own to the Sony ads. On a wall outside a beer garden in San Francisco's bohemian Mission District that caters to motorcyclists and bike messengers, someone spray-painted over every character, adding the commentary, "Advertising directed at your counter-culture."

Outside Casa Maria, a small Mission bodega, someone wrote, "Get out of my city," added the word "Fony" to the graffiti and penned a four-line ditty slamming Sony.

Other cities targeted in the campaign include New York, Chicago, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Los Angeles and Miami, according to Sony spokeswoman Molly Smith.

The advertising, based on original artwork commissioned by Sony's ad agency, features a collection of dizzy-eyed urban kids playing with the PSP as if it were a skateboard, a paddle or a rocking horse, but doesn't include the word Sony or PSP anywhere.

When asked about the criticism, Smith countered that art is subjective and that both the content and the medium dovetailed with Sony's belief that the PSP is a "disrupter product" that lets people play games, surf the internet and watch movies wherever they want.

"With PSP being a portable product, our target is what we consider to be urban nomads, people who are on the go constantly," Smith said.

Floyd Hayes, the head creative director at Cunning Work, which specializes in nontraditional marketing campaigns such as promoting a Sci-Fi Channel TV show about the Bermuda triangle through reward signs (.jpg) for a missing sock, doesn't disapprove of the campaign, though he thinks the seemingly hypnotized kids in the artwork might send the wrong message about the PSP's thrill factor.

But Hayes doesn't think Sony has crossed any lines with the faux street art. "Sony and PSP have every right to use this type of media," Hayes said. "They have done it for (a) very long time very successfully and spoke the language of the streets without being patronizing."

Piers Fawkes, who runs the IF blog that focuses on new currents in marketing, also liked the campaign.

"It's a cheeky wink toward a savvy audience who are already familiar with the product," Fawkes said. "It's reflective of modern approach to marketing. The creative classes are sick of marketing when done badly or blandly, but when it's done in (an) intelligent manner, we appreciate it."

Fawkes questioned whether the backlash was very widespread.

"I wonder if that's a San Francisco phenomenon," Fawkes said. "I know there's certain mindset there."

Sony isn't the first corporation to use graffiti and stencils to market its products. In 2001, IBM paid Chicago and San Francisco more than $120,000 in fines and clean-up costs after its advertising agency spray-painted Linux advertisements on the cities' sidewalks.

Unlike IBM, however, Sony says it's paying businesses and building owners for the right to graffiti their walls.

Casa Maria was paid $100 for two weeks' use of its wall, according to co-owner Mario Arana._


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## xAKxRUSx (Mar 7, 2006)

Jape said:


> At least here money to schools, public healthcare, etc. come from taxpayers taxes, not from advertising companies. Sure they pay for their advertising space, but it should be citizens who decide, not money.


Well yes, they come from taxpayers too. I meant that part of that money that comapanies pay to advertise, go to schools and stuff too. A city leases the space (if its public property) and collects the money. What does it do with the money? It uses it for public programs such as schools, etc. That and the city collects a tax on the money that the company paid. So thats more money. Do you see what I am trying to say?



Jape said:


> We definitely should. I don't know about other cities, but here the amount of adverts has increased constantly. For example in one metro station a big legally made mural has been covered with a Coca Cola banner - and that's not an exceptional case.


Yes, that is a problem. And unfortunatly its all too common. There should be some sort of laws preventing this.



Jape said:


> It depends. At least here legally made murals have been liked, even among those who otherwise don't like graffiti and taggings.


I have no problems with murals. None. If the city allows a spot, sure why not.




Jape said:


> It doesn't have to be like in Moscow or Athens. Some students from art-related schools may do it for free. Also, when checking some websites where people may publish their self-made art, it easy to see that our world is full of talented "underground artists" whose work should get more public attention. Metro stations, pedestrian tunnels etc. aren't certainly the worst places for them.


That works too. Again, I think my comment from above covers this point too.


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## Jean Luc (Mar 23, 2006)

Vandals don't care what others think about them and what they do, and I don't care what they think about me. If you grafitti someone else's property without getting their permission first then that is criminal damage and is illegal. Trying to justify it by calling it art is just a pathetic excuse. Pure and simple.


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## xAKxRUSx (Mar 7, 2006)

^^ Agreed


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## Taylorhoge (Feb 5, 2006)

I like legal murals but sometimes stuff looks good even if it is done illegaly


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Taylorhoge said:


> I like legal murals but sometimes stuff looks good even if it is done illegaly


Yup some illegal murals look nice. I'm a graf writer myself but the thing is, if writers would do their pieces illegally, they're better doing it on abandoned buildings or the side walls of industrial complexes. Definitely not on houses, churches or any place of worship or monuments or landmarks.


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## xlchris (Jun 23, 2006)

I think this are the first Dutch trains in this topic,









^^ ^^ ^^ hno: 








^^ ^^ ^^ hno: 








^^ ^^ ^^ hno: 








^^ ^^ ^^ hno: 








^^ ^^ ^^ hno: 








^^ ^^ ^^ hno: 








^^ ^^ ^^ hno: 








^^ ^^ ^^ hno: 








^^ ^^ ^^ hno: 

*And a clean train*








^^ ^^ ^^  :lol:


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Captain Chaos said:


> Bastard! You beat me to it, sort of....
> 
> *WANCH*.... here's a challenge for ya. Every time someone's said their trains don't get graffiti'd, you've got a picture to prove 'em wrong.
> 
> ...


You're right about that but I have *never* seen or heard the Singapore MRT getting bombed. One thing the penalties are severe in SG if you get caught. Most likely those who will attempt to paint the MRT are die-hard writers from other countries instead of local Singaporeans. 

But neighbouring Malaysia had some bombed trains


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## Taylorhoge (Feb 5, 2006)

What they should do liked they used to do in San Fransisco was create an area for leagl graff that way problems wont happen as often.


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## Xelebes (Apr 1, 2007)

Our LRT trains have surprisingly little graffiti. I think that is due to the fact that so few highschool kids ride the LRT.


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

Sometimes I see trains or subways with little graffiti, Paris has some problem with that, but it is not bad as Rome.


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## beta29 (Sep 30, 2004)

Berlin again:





















Greetings from Berlin in London


This was at my metro station one morning....i think it´s awesome


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## LosAngelesSportsFan (Oct 20, 2004)

how long does it take to do one of those pieces?


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## beta29 (Sep 30, 2004)

Try this link....it´s quite easy to make it in five minutes!

Here you can see the very famous 1UP crew from Berlin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewc5AZKOAuw&mode=related&search=


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

There's isn't as much graffiti on the trains in Copenhagen as there used to be in the nineties but still I see pieces like every time I go on a train.
It seems like the MOA crew that used to do the most graffiti on the trains in Copenhagen aren't that active anymore.

VIM (Stockholm) MOA (Copenhagen) and ALL (Oslo) pieces on NY-trains

Monsters of Art 4 video - not only from Copenhagen


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## KoolKeatz (Jan 30, 2007)

WANCH said:


> How serious is the graffiti problem on your city/country's trains?


Problem? Graffiti makes a grey urban world shiny. There is no liveable art like streetart! 



beta29 said:


> Try this link....it´s quite easy to make it in five minutes!
> 
> Here you can see the very famous 1UP crew from Berlin
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewc5A...elated&search=


1UP is crazy! :nuts:


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## Tubeman (Sep 12, 2002)

Some decent pieces there, but this shit is what gives graff a bad name:










...Plus letting off the powder fire extinguishers... how old are they? 9?


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

Here's a classic one man whole train from Copenhagen - Kegr (old MOA member):


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## Blijdorp (Oct 18, 2005)

That must have cost a lot of graffiti! The trains and stations in Berlin look horrible some people just really ruin it. Trains in Rotterdam are mostly grafitti free so are the stations, is does look a lot better when they are grafitti free.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Oelanddk said:


> There's isn't as much graffiti on the trains in Copenhagen as there used to be in the nineties but still I see pieces like every time I go on a train.
> It seems like the MOA crew that used to do the most graffiti on the trains in Copenhagen aren't that active anymore.


I think the MOAS are more into interrails now or inter-city transit. The only thing I don't like about this crew is they prefer writing their crew name instead of their individual tag names. Anyway, here is embed


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## BoulderGrad (Jun 29, 2005)

Tubeman said:


> Some decent pieces there, but this shit is what gives graff a bad name:
> 
> ...Plus letting off the powder fire extinguishers... how old are they? 9?


I'd agree. The complex artistic stuff is really cool and interesting. I'd almost want to let the artist guys have a few trains to take their time on and do an even more kick ass job, like a mural train (but maybe that takes some of the thrill out of it?). I think people would be less likely to do the stupid carving your name in the window crap if there were real art work too. Any subway systems actually have a program like that?


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

BoulderGrad said:


> I'd agree. The complex artistic stuff is really cool and interesting. I'd almost want to let the artist guys have a few trains to take their time on and do an even more kick ass job, like a mural train (but maybe that takes some of the thrill out of it?). I think people would be less likely to do the stupid carving your name in the window crap if there were real art work too. Any subway systems actually have a program like that?


Not a metro system but they had a mural art program in Brazil especially in Sao Paulo's *commuter trains*. Those who participated were some of the most prominent Sampa graf writers like Os Gemeos and Nina.






They also had a similar program in the Cape Town metro.


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

WANCH said:


> I think the MOAS are more into interrails now or inter-city transit. The only thing I don't like about this crew is they prefer writing their crew name instead of their individual tag names. Anyway, here is embed


I think that is what makes that crew so great - everybody that knows about train-graffiti knows about the MOAS, cause they are like everywhere.
But then again not many knows who are MOA members. Think the most famous is ATOM from Germany and the former member KEGR from Copenhagen (who doesn't make trains anymore - but is like everywhere in the streets of Copenhagen).


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Oelanddk said:


> I think that is what makes that crew so great - everybody that knows about train-graffiti knows about the MOAS, cause they are like everywhere.
> But then again not many knows who are MOA members. Think the most famous is ATOM from Germany and the former member KEGR from Copenhagen (who doesn't make trains anymore - but is like everywhere in the streets of Copenhagen).


MOA must be the largest graf crew in Denmark or even in Scandinavia. 

A friend of mine is now living in HK but was originally from Copenhagen. He writes Dofi and is from the TWO crew. He knows some of the MOAS writers.

Here are some of this stuff


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## xAKxRUSx (Mar 7, 2006)

beta29 said:


> Try this link....it´s quite easy to make it in five minutes!
> 
> Here you can see the very famous 1UP crew from Berlin
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewc5AZKOAuw&mode=related&search=


Those assholes. Why isn't anyone doing anything? :bash: :bash: :bash: 

People just pass by... and don't care? I would have bashed their skulls in... fucking vandals.


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

xAKxRUSx said:


> Those assholes. Why isn't anyone doing anything? :bash: :bash: :bash:
> 
> People just pass by... and don't care? I would have bashed their skulls in... fucking vandals.


Would you alone have bashed their skulls in? Think people are afraid to do something when they walk by alone. I don't think it's because people don't care, I just think they are afraid to do something.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

One thing, some of these writers have guts to do it in the open public such as the ones in Europe.


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## greg_christine (Jan 25, 2004)

WANCH said:


> You're right about that but I have *never* seen or heard the Singapore MRT getting bombed. One thing the penalties are severe in SG if you get caught. Most likely those who will attempt to paint the MRT are die-hard writers from other countries instead of local Singaporeans.
> 
> But neighbouring Malaysia had some bombed trains


The penalties for creating graffiti in Singapore include caning:

*Images removed by Mod*

The above images have appeared on several different websites. Sometimes they are purported to be in Singapore and other times in Malaysia.


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## greg_christine (Jan 25, 2004)

^^ In 1994, an American teenager living in Singapore was found guilty of vandalizing cars with spray paint. He was sentenced to four months in jail, a $2200 fine, and six strokes of the cane. The full story can be found at the following link:

http://www.corpun.com/awfay9405.htm


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## Taylorhoge (Feb 5, 2006)

Rocky Mountain News

Samaritan graffiti: As art, it can be good
Youths volunteer talent to decorate recreation center
By Fernando Quintero, Rocky Mountain News 
May 5, 2007
Alejandro Casillas is quite familiar with the spray-painted letters and other markings that designate the neighborhood gang in the Globeville section of Denver.

The 15-year-old knows that "tagging" is a crime, and an unwanted presence on fences, walls and buildings.

But recently, Casillas and other neighborhood young people were introduced to the idea of graffiti as a cultural art form.

On Friday, as part of its Cinco de Mayo festivities, the Globeville Recreation Center unveiled a giant graffiti mural that Casillas helped design.

"It's about ethnic pride," he said.

"It's looked down upon because it comes from our neighborhoods. But I take it as art from my culture."

Levi Garcia, a 14-year-old Globeville resident and a freshman at West High School, developed an appreciation for the intricate lettering and other designs that his father draws on letters that he writes from his prison cell.

"My dad's an artist. He's a good artist," Garcia said proudly.

"He does lettering and art. He also does tattoos for a lot of the other inmates. I guess he was my inspiration."

Now Garcia, who also helped paint the mural that covers all four walls of the recreation center's gymnasium, wants to hone his artistic skills.

"I want to stick with it and watch my artwork evolve," he said. "It's a pleasure showing other people what I can do.

"Now I look forward to the future, to move more forward in life. We're seen as criminals. But we're artists."

The city approved the mural as part of an anti-graffiti initiative with youths in the community.

In addition to painting the mural, participants pledged to not engage in illegal tagging and spent a day going throughout Globeville removing graffiti.

"The reality is that graffiti art is a type of personal expression that many youth post because they want their art to be seen," said Michael Barney, the city of Denver's director of recreation.

"Projects such as this have far greater value in the effort to reduce illegal graffiti than any enforcement policy."

Julia Martinez-Bezjak, the center's recreation coordinator and Garcia's aunt, said she was surprised and pleased that the mural project got the go-ahead from city parks and recreation officials.

"I was so happy that we got to do this for the kids and for our community," she said of Globeville.

It's a mostly Hispanic neighborhood that, in 2006, had the seventh-highest crime rate in the city and where nearly 84 percent of children receive free school lunches - an indicator of family poverty.

"I think the mural ties in well with Cinco de Mayo because it's about showing cultural pride, even when others try to bring you down," Martinez-Bezjak said.

Some members of the city's graffiti task force voiced concerns that providing a wall for graffiti art only encourages illegal tagging.

But a Denver graffiti artist who goes by the name "Wiser" said he believes just the opposite.

He and his business partner volunteered their time to teach neighborhood children graffiti art techniques and headed up the recreation center mural project.

"These kids are getting old enough to go out and start tagging - we teach them to do it on canvas, on sketch pads, in notebooks," said Wiser, whose design business specializes in graffiti art and personalized apparel.

"We teach them how to do graffiti art like a professional. Soon we hear them saying, 'I'd rather do legal graffiti than tag the streets,' It's a positive thing for them. It's positive for the community.

"Educating people on graffiti as an art form prevents graffiti in vandalism form. And the kids are eager to learn about it."

Nathan Valdez, 15, said that he and his fellow artists were impressed to learn that graffiti is a practice that goes back many centuries.

"We learned about the first graffiti artist - he was a messenger who went from city to city and always left his mark wherever he went," said the East High School sophomore.

The mural, which features the name "Globeville" spray-painted in giant letters, also includes stylized nicknames of the young artists as well as characters representing local youths, and sports memorabilia.

Casillas said he hopes that the graffiti would elicit positive feedback from local residents.

"If people see it as something negative, it will be dead," Casillas said.

"If people give it more respect, it will continue to grow."


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

greg_christine said:


> ^^ In 1994, an American teenager living in Singapore was found guilty of vandalizing cars with spray paint. He was sentenced to four months in jail, a $2200 fine, and six strokes of the cane. The full story can be found at the following link:
> 
> http://www.corpun.com/awfay9405.htm


It was reduced to 4 since Clinton, who was US president at that time intervened. But still, even 4 strokes is harsh enough.

But despite that laws, graffiti still exist in Singapore mostly *legal walls*. The trains would be risky not just the harsh penalties but security in the MRT yards is tight.

Singapore


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## Avatar (Sep 11, 2002)




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## FM 2258 (Jan 24, 2004)

When I was in Italy there were shitloads of graffiti especially in Roma. I saw some in Milano but not much in Catania.


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

^^
The trains in Roma a totally overpainted - or atleast they have been for many years. Don't know the situation right now, but when I was there in 2003 there were graffiti on every train.
http://en.sevenload.com/videos/FtD1WwH/M-TV1-Rome

...btw. those Sydney kids weren't the smartest around


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## trainrover (May 6, 2006)

Montreal metro's worst offenders are advertisers underground -- thoughtless habit nowadays of slopping 25-foot-high ads on its tall subteranean walls -- I still haven't figured out how come taggers roaming underground in the metro don't take aim right at their trumpers' output . . .


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## ♣628.finst (Jul 29, 2005)

greg_christine said:


> ^^ In 1994, an American teenager living in Singapore was found guilty of vandalizing cars with spray paint. He was sentenced to four months in jail, a $2200 fine, and six strokes of the cane. The full story can be found at the following link:
> 
> http://www.corpun.com/awfay9405.htm


We do need such law--- especially against those disruptive teenagers. Graffiti is by no means a good sign of a city, especially on its public transport. Advertising on public transport is perhaps, another real problem as well. As a passenger we should have the right to have a clean public transport without both advertisements and graffiti. If these costs poorer service, we still need these to be done.

By the way, Hong Kong is not safer than Singapore because of our abolishment on caning. These should be done when they are young (i.e. age 12-30)


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Gherkin said:


> We do need such law--- especially against those disruptive teenagers. Graffiti is by no means a good sign of a city, especially on its public transport. Advertising on public transport is perhaps, another real problem as well. As a passenger we should have the right to have a clean public transport without both advertisements and graffiti. If these costs poorer service, we still need these to be done.
> 
> By the way, Hong Kong is not safer than Singapore because of our abolishment on caning. These should be done when they are young (i.e. age 12-30)


HK *never* had a law on caning or any physical punishment. But the region's KCR got bombed


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

^^
So which one did you do? :jk:


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## Pippi444 (Jan 28, 2007)

never mind this post


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

Some 2008 pictures from the S-Trains in Copenhagen


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## icracked (Feb 15, 2007)

^^Actually some of those graffiti look good on that train:cheers:


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## 6-6-6 (Jan 14, 2008)

Tubeman said:


> 'Actual' crimes? So trespass and criminal damage aren't crimes any longer?
> 
> It could be argued that graffiti is a pretty bad crime, as it affects so many people and costs local authorities and transport companies around the world billions each year to put right... oh, and the vast majority is shit:
> 
> ...


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## 6-6-6 (Jan 14, 2008)

i love graffiti on trains, that for me is art, without it the trains are so boring, i wish the metro of mexico city had more graffiti, we only have scretching on windows and that is kinda lame, i think graffiti shows the lifestyle and personality of every city and that is very interesting.


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

6-6-6 said:


> i love graffiti on trains, that for me is art, without it the trains are so boring, i wish the metro of mexico city had more graffiti, we only have scretching on windows and that is kinda lame, i think graffiti shows the lifestyle and personality of every city and that is very interesting.


Then paint the wall of your room,or your house,or the face of your mother,but not public or private property,for which someone paid to look clean. Everyone who paints a graffiti/tags/scratches the windows should go to jail,and their families should pay the damage,since they failed to educate their children...


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

Brand new Desiro vandalised...


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

ØlandDK said:


> Some 2008 pictures from the S-Trains in Copenhagen


Nice pics but try to limit them to 5  Thanks.

BTW, any MOAS flicks? Are they still active?

*More Mexico City*


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## 6-6-6 (Jan 14, 2008)

RawLee said:


> Then paint the wall of your room,or your house,or the face of your mother,but not public or private property,for which someone paid to look clean. Everyone who paints a graffiti/tags/scratches the windows should go to jail,and their families should pay the damage,since they failed to educate their children...


in that case, i´d totally paint the face of your mother, that would be a perfect graffiti and then you could send me to jail.

who cares


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## gladisimo (Dec 11, 2006)

Perhaps people like you are why Singapore/Malaysia has to resort to caning.

That or get raped in the ass by other dudes in jail, as it apparently happens in jail.

By the way, sucks for the guy who got caned... he won't be able to sit for weeks =/


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

gladisimo said:


> Perhaps people like you are why Singapore/Malaysia has to resort to caning.
> 
> That or get raped in the ass by other dudes in jail, as it apparently happens in jail.
> 
> By the way, sucks for the guy who got caned... he won't be able to sit for weeks =/


Not just that but caning like that scars for life. Those people are professionals and know exactly how to cane to give maximal pain and maximal scarring. Can't say I disagree though. Vandalism costs everyone money.


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

WANCH said:


> BTW, any MOAS flicks? Are they still active?


Yes they are - only 5 pics this time














































...I btw think that some of the graffiti that I showed in the other post are also done by MOA members -MDHS and FERS - I'm not sure though...


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

Btw. MOA pics are a bit rare because they clean of the MOA pieces faster than the graffiti by others.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

gladisimo said:


> Perhaps people like you are why Singapore/Malaysia has to resort to caning.
> 
> That or get raped in the ass by other dudes in jail, as it apparently happens in jail.
> 
> By the way, sucks for the guy who got caned... he won't be able to sit for weeks =/


I wouldn't mind seeing pieces on the outsides of trains but I hate seeing tags and scratches on the insides.

Anyway, *Rome* argubly has the most bombed metro system in the world much worst than NY's.

*Roman Metros*


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

^^
The reason why the metro trains in Rome are so overpainted is because they aren't cleaned that often.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

ØlandDK said:


> ^^
> The reason why the metro trains in Rome are so overpainted is because they aren't cleaned that often.


Why because can't afford "the buff"? These trains might have over 10 layers of paint


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

Paris metro is often bombed but they clean it rapidly, so it is rare to see an bombed train.

In 1980's it was worse, 









So the new livery of 1992 (actual one) was anti gaffiti (infact it is just stickers that could be remplaced.)


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

Really don't know. Maybe they are given up the fight on graffiti or just don't find it that immportant to have clean trains. Or simply just because they can't afford it.
You can see in some of your pics that there are several layers of paint. Haven't seen that on other trains than the ones in Rome.


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

6-6-6 said:


> in that case, i´d totally paint the face of your mother, that would be a perfect graffiti and then you could send me to jail.
> 
> who cares


Dude...every mother paints their faces...its called...make-up...
BTW,if I tag your car,or spray a big ugly graffiti on it,will you thank me? If you would,then spray that,but dont public property,for what people pay,and you(or other "artists")destroy it...as I said..you ruin your own property the way you want,but dont try to justify damaging public(or other's) property by saying:its art...Leonardo(who was an artist) only painted where he was asked to paint...most of the world would be very happy if these "artists" would follow him in this sense.


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## xAKxRUSx (Mar 7, 2006)

Those poor trains .

Vandals!!!

I decided to take things into my own hands... A couple months ago there were several trains that were standing out in the rail yard. One morning... they were tagged. I decided to take a brush one night, and painted over the tags. I figure if those vandals consider themselves "artists" then nothing would hurt them more (except maybe breaking their hands) then seeing their "art" destroyed.


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

haha you you are trying to fight vandalism by doing it yourself? Nice try...


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## Xabi (Nov 8, 2004)

In the Basque Country we have a serious problem with Euskotren company whose trains and stations are vandalized every week. Near to a hundred of stations, lot of them at lonely places without security monitoring, makes so easy to draw graffities at night. 





*Train vandalized in Bilbao*





*Train with graffities at an unknown place*

Some photos collected at a basque pro-graffiti blog:



















This blogs defines the Bilbao metro as one of the cleanest metro in Europe and sells a 75 min. video about graffities made on Bilbao metro trains. uke:









Instead, in Bilbao metro is impossible to see any graffiti at trains or stations. A cleaning team deletes the graffities during all the day. Some years ago Bilbao metro suffered an average of two graffities every day. Nowadays the average is similar, I supose.
Cleaning and security are priority for Bilbao metro.





*Two vandals making a graffiti at a metro train.*

Personally I hate graffities made on trains, stations and other public buildings. I understand that some of them are really beauty but I think trains or stations are not place to draw them. Authorities could provide places where young people could paint their graffities.


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## xAKxRUSx (Mar 7, 2006)

ØlandDK said:


> haha you you are trying to fight vandalism by doing it yourself? Nice try...


If you mean that I "vandalized" vandalism, then yes. Or in other words, I attempted to clean up the vandalism.


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## 6-6-6 (Jan 14, 2008)

RawLee said:


> Dude...every mother paints their faces...its called...make-up...
> BTW,if I tag your car,or spray a big ugly graffiti on it,will you thank me? If you would,then spray that,but dont public property,for what people pay,and you(or other "artists")destroy it...as I said..you ruin your own property the way you want,but dont try to justify damaging public(or other's) property by saying:its art...Leonardo(who was an artist) only painted where he was asked to paint...most of the world would be very happy if these "artists" would follow him in this sense.


agreed. BTW, I love Rome's.


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## Peloso (May 17, 2006)

The problem in Rome, as in any other city, is not graffiti and art, it is BAD graffiti and art. But what ruins a city's aesthetic is most often placards for advertising and other manufacts that are intended to give grey cities a more "artsy" look. Strangely enough (NOT!), I never heard anti-graffiti nazis talk against stupid and often hideous placards.
"But that's because everything must have its place!"
Bull***t. Revolting ads are everywhere.


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## fishcatdogbird (Sep 12, 2002)

1LONDONER said:


> As weird as it sounds 3 hours after making this post, the person i was with on that day randomly sends me the image from a flickr.


Exactly the same thing happened to Mile End Station on Boxing Day 2007, by the next day the entire place had been cleaned as if you couldnt even tell it had happened was very impressed as EVERY surface was covered and i mean everything, ticket machines, display signs all columns, walls and parts of the floor, crazy!


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

xAKxRUSx said:


> If you mean that I "vandalized" vandalism, then yes. Or in other words, I attempted to clean up the vandalism.


IMO that's a pretty strange way to solve a problem...


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

Some new once from CPH:














































...alot more can be found at www.time2bomb.dk


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## Paddington (Mar 30, 2006)

When I was in Amsterdam, I could not believe how much graffiti there was on the subway. You would have never expected graffiti at all in one of the old, historic capitals of Europe, let alone so much of it. hno:

There's also tons of graffiti in London, especially in the outer parts alongside the walls around train tracks.

The European underclass really seems to like the most disgusting aspects of American ghetto culture. I've seen more graffiti when I was over there than I do here.


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## coreyt (Dec 25, 2005)

Graffiti could be really cool....if it was on a designated wall. If i saw someone spraying anything public, i would walk up and punch them.


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## jamesinclair (Mar 21, 2006)

I was just in switzerland and france and shocked at the level of graffiti. Paris: Every train, inside. Switzerland: not the trains but the walls on train ROWs.

In Boston ive seen graffiti only once. A train is pulled from service if there is graffiti on it.


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

Some new ones:


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

In the Paris metro line 3.


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## GTR22 (Nov 14, 2007)

The Muni Metro never has grafitti on the side of the trains like on the posts above but there are those ones they scratch on the windows and the maker ones sometimes but more on buses. BART however i have only seen a few scratched ones, quite surprised. Guess because of the cameras on there and the ocassional BART police pass bys.


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## urbanfan89 (May 30, 2007)

They should build electric and barbed wires around railway infrastructure to stop taggers.

And a Singapore-style caning probably won't "hurt" either.:lol:


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## BroadGauge (Dec 13, 2004)

Are you vandals? Why the **** do you post photos of graffiti then.


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

Are you a train?


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## xAKxRUSx (Mar 7, 2006)

urbanfan89 said:


> They should build electric and barbed wires around railway infrastructure to stop taggers.
> 
> And a Singapore-style caning probably won't "hurt" either.:lol:


:applause:


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## cees (Jun 25, 2006)

tagging is ugly to me, but they should make trains much more atractive for artwork. they should make a big championship of it, who make's the best.


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

> *More graffiti on S-trains*
> 
> By The Copenhagen Post
> 
> ...


 ...


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

Great pics everyone. I am surprised that they don't get rid of it so quickly in Europe.

When I was on the NY subway, they got rid of the graffiti so quickly that it was not noticeable later on.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

GTR22 said:


> The Muni Metro never has grafitti on the side of the trains like on the posts above but there are those ones they scratch on the windows and the maker ones sometimes but more on buses. BART however i have only seen a few scratched ones, quite surprised. Guess because of the cameras on there and the ocassional BART police pass bys.


Just some rare examples

BART









Caltrain


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

Not trains but some inner city vans:


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## D.D. (Nov 26, 2007)

thats some serious graffity vandalism...hno:


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## seawastate (Feb 25, 2008)

Washington, DC doesn't seem to have graffiti on its Metro, maybe on the overpasses but I haven't seen any on trains. Just minor scratches on windows...


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## Pippi444 (Jan 28, 2007)

greg_christine said:


> The penalties for creating graffiti in Singapore include caning:
> 
> The above images have appeared on several different websites. Sometimes they are purported to be in Singapore and other times in Malaysia.


Can someone PLEASE remove these offensive images?


Before i saw these images didn`t know that anyone still used such crappy punishment.


Why the hell do some people support torture?!?!?


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## Bitxofo (Feb 3, 2005)

^^Incredible!
hno:


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## Xpressway (Dec 2, 2006)

No graffittis in the outside or inside of Santiago de Chile's subway trains, although some windows are etched.

Inside the subway stations there's no graffitti either.

(well someone may find a pic of graffiti in our subway but it surely won't last for long as they're removed really quickly).


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2008)

I must say its not even a minor problem in Singapore. I never seen any train or station in graffiti, just once few lines sprayed on a pylon. 


This thing is obviously photoshopped, you can only see the upper four regulations in trains, not that ass :nuts: :lol:



Pippi444 said:


> Why the hell do some people support torture?!?!?


Cos other people support vandalising, i.e: wasting commuters' money. If they just put financial fines, then some vandals with richer parents would feel free to do mess. Everyone is afraid of pain, especially THAT pain. 

As far as I know, its not necessary to do graffiti to keep breathing :bash: If someone likes arts, then i recommend him to choose one of Singapore's Arts schools. Or graffiti his own room. :yes:



RawLee said:


> Brand new Desiro vandalised...


 ^^ This picture emphatically proves that Singapore way is justified. 

And to finish my involvement in this eternal conflict between Singapore laws and European mentality, I must stand in favor of Singapore. It happened to me many times to fall asleep in the train or bus and never got robbed. Neither buses nor trains got graffiti, so my hard-earned fare is not wasted. In any suburb in this city, I can freely go out in the middle of the night, juggle with money and handphone and nothing can happen to me. I know what I'm saying - I was formerly European.


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## HipHopCanada (Feb 13, 2009)

Some Frankfurt train graffiti.


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## leekie008 (Oct 9, 2008)

WANCH said:


> Chicago



In sydney you will never go into a train WITHOUT graffiti.
Its everywhere that you just get use to it. Its not the nice graffiti but the stupid type where it look like shit.

The retarts go so far they just pour buckets of paint onto the train


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## poshbakerloo (Jan 16, 2007)

Recently I have seen quite a few trains on London's Bakerloo Line with graffiti...:-S


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

The line 3 of Paris, have serious problem with graffity, I always see graffity in the train of this line.
Fortunely it is only the exterior... inside the line 3 train are some of cleanest train of Paris metro.


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## Dahlis (Aug 29, 2008)

I cant remember last time i saw grafitti on a train in stockholm


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

Paris metro line 3


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## Ribarca (Jan 28, 2005)

Tagnuzlsx said:


> Why do people get so hung up about Graffiti. It shouldn't be a crime at all When done well, it brightens up the atmosphere in a city.


Why don't they spray their own car or house. 

It's a disgrace to mess up what is not yours. That's the great thing of living in Asia, people respect public means.


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## 2co2co (Apr 8, 2008)

> When done well, it brightens up the atmosphere in a city


The problem is, it happens only 1~2% of the whole, and the rest 98~99% leads to increased crimes (Broken Window Theory)


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

A few more from Copenhagen:


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

*MISC | How serious is the graffiti problem on your city/country's trains?*

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=310793

PART-II


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

*SINGAPORE EXCLUSIVE!!!*


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

*Swiss man faces caning over Singapore graffiti*
http://www.mysinchew.com/node/39990
2010-06-04 15:57'

SINGAPORE, Friday 4 June 2010 (AFP) - A Swiss man has been arrested in Singapore on suspicion of breaking into a high-security subway depot and spray-painting graffiti on a train, an offence punishable by caning, police said Friday.

"We confirm that a 33-year-old Swiss male national has been arrested in relation to the case," a spokesman for the Singapore Police Force told AFP.

No further details were available pending the investigation into the incident, which took place in May.

The Swiss embassy in Singapore had no immediate comment.

Subway operator SMRT said it was helping police with the investigation, but gave no further information.

The train has been scrubbed clean but a clip on video-sharing site Youtube -- still visible at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CV4JYKBEQo -- shows the vandalised train as it left a suburban station.

The Straits Times newspaper reported Friday that the suspect was believed to have cut his way into the depot, a restricted zone surrounded by fences topped with barbed wire.

Singapore, a close US ally, considers itself a prime target of Southeast Asian extremists and lists the train system among possible points of attack, along with the airport and US-linked establishments.

Vandalism is punishable in Singapore by three to eight strokes of the cane as well as jail terms of up to three years and a maximum fine of 2,000 Singapore dollars (1,424 US).

An American teenager, Michael Fay, garnered global headlines in 1994 when he was jailed and caned in Singapore after he was found guilty of vandalising several cars. Fay was caned despite a US appeal for clemency.


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## k.k.jetcar (Jul 17, 2008)

^^
Not a fan of some of the more authoritarian aspects of Singapore, but this "artist" deserves what's coming to him.
*I'm surprised they let this train run on a revenue service. In Japan they would have kept in the depot until it was cleaned.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

k.k.jetcar said:


> ^^
> Not a fan of some of the more authoritarian aspects of Singapore, but this "artist" deserves what's coming to him.
> *I'm surprised they let this train run on a revenue service. In Japan they would have kept in the depot until it was cleaned.


The artist knows the risk of getting caught in the Lion City but he happens to be a *hardcore bomber* and does have the guts of getting up and making his mark despite the penalties and security. In fact to some of them, having caned marks is like wearing a *badge of honour*. 

I noticed the other pieces is by Banos, he's *MOAS* one of the dopest train painting crews in Scandinavia. 

With most cases of Japanese trains, a few of them do run with graffiti on it as with the case of some JR trains in Tokyo.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

*Graffiti Assault*


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## k.k.jetcar (Jul 17, 2008)

Actually not JR trains there, first one appears to be Tokyo Municipal subway Asakusa line on a non-revenue run (lights off, no passengers), and later is a Tokyo Metro train at the shed.

Nothing "cool" about: first, breaking and entering, and second, vandalizing public property. It's been proven- when grafitti is allowed unchecked, it attracts other (more serious) crimes and blight. Because this stuff says to people:"we don't give a sh*t about this place or this train, you can do anything here, hey take a look at what I did, me me me!!" Simply said: Doing sh*t leads to bigger sh*t.


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

I don't favor canning or such measures. Prolonged house arrests, with electronic monitoring (and real jail time if violated), would do the job. 

But I guess the ultimately measure is withdrawing every car/bus/tram/train that has been vandalized from service until it gets clean, even at expense of quality of service. Fares should be increased to cover such costs. The combination of such measures would then push the general public against these people, which it is what is ultimately needed.

But I still have no sympathy for those who don't respect third parties property rights.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Suburbanist said:


> I don't favor canning or such measures. Prolonged house arrests, with electronic monitoring (and real jail time if violated), would do the job.
> 
> But I guess the ultimately measure is withdrawing every car/bus/tram/train that has been vandalized from service until it gets clean, even at expense of quality of service. Fares should be increased to cover such costs. The combination of such measures would then push the general public against these people, which it is what is ultimately needed.
> 
> But I still have no sympathy for those who don't respect third parties property rights.


The laws are different in Singapore and caning is the *mandatory* punishment for minor felony crimes. At least its better than getting the death penalty.

There was a time in NY during the mid 80s when the MTA decided to not run its fleet of bombed trains for a whole day.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

*RAL crew assault*


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

*Singapore wants extradition of Briton for graffiti*

SINGAPORE (AP) – Singapore said it will seek to extradite a British man accused of spray-painting a subway car with an alleged Swiss accomplice last month.

A court issued an arrest warrant for Lloyd Dane Alexander for allegedly breaking into a train depot and vandalizing a subway car on May 16 with Oliver Fricker of Switzerland, Singapore Police Force said Tuesday in a statement.

Police said Alexander fled Singapore and authorities will seek to extradite him, depending on the extradition treaty Singapore has with the country where he is eventually located.

Police declined to give details on Alexander's age, profession or possible whereabouts. He likely fled to Hong Kong, the Straits Times reported Tuesday without citing a source for the information.

A Singapore court charged Fricker, 33, with one count of trespassing and two counts of vandalism Saturday. Fricker is free after posting bail of $100,000 Singapore dollars ($71,000). A preliminary hearing is set for June 21.

"Investigations disclosed that there is an accomplice who is at large," the police said. "He is a British national and left Singapore before the incident was reported to the police."

Singapore has a well-earned reputation for severe punishments for minor crimes. Vandalism carries a fine of up to SG2,000 ($1,415) or up to three years in jail — in addition to three to eight strokes of a cane.

Singapore caned American teenager Michael Fey for vandalism in 1994 — ignoring pleas for leniency by then President Bill Clinton — in a case that drew international attention to the country's harsh punishments.


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## The Cake On BBQ (May 10, 2010)

Problem? If anything graffiti makes trains look better.


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## FDW (Mar 9, 2010)

What you get for graffiti here in San Francisco is not necessarily the Big-easily noticeable type, but the more amateurish scribbling with permanent marker and Paint Pens on the inside of Vehicles Buses and Trains alike.


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## bayviews (Mar 3, 2006)

FDW said:


> What you get for graffiti here in San Francisco is not necessarily the Big-easily noticeable type, but the more amateurish scribbling with permanent marker and Paint Pens on the inside of Vehicles Buses and Trains alike.


Suffice to say, its mighty hard to imagine 2 cities, Singapore & SF, where the attitudes toward public raffitti could be so different. 

Singapore seems to work a lot better!


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## mrtdude5 (Mar 13, 2010)

Actually, there is a lot of permanent marker/white-out scribbling on seats in Singapore, especially on buses. It's just the spray-painting that is extremely rare.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

FDW said:


> What you get for graffiti here in San Francisco is not necessarily the Big-easily noticeable type, but the more amateurish scribbling with permanent marker and Paint Pens on the inside of Vehicles Buses and Trains alike.


Graffiti in SF is almost everywhere despite strict laws. But it is rare on the BART especially on the outside.

But some BART trains though get bombed!



















And also some


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## bayviews (Mar 3, 2006)

A lot of the public transit agencies, including MUNI, BART, Caltran, & others around the BayArea seem to be having serious trouble living within their operating budgets. 

Sadly, the first that always gets cut is cleaning, leaving the buses & trains a complete mess of graffitti, & garbage. 

The NYC subway system showed us the right way a few decades ago when it initiated a zero tolereance policy regarding graffitti, etc. It woked wonders in bringing a positive image for the subways. 

We have to get back to that sense of pride in our public transit facilities.


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## greg_christine (Jan 25, 2004)

http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/news/topstories/3750088.Graffiti_gang_jailed/

Graffiti gang jailed

2:55pm Sunday 12th October 2008

A gang of graffiti artists have been jailed after a two-year campaign of vandalism on trains and stations around south London, including an attack to Epsom.

Tom Collister, 22, of West Wickham, Darren Austin, 21, of Beckenham, Joshua Piehl, 19, of Tunbridge Wells, and William Setzdempsey, 19, of Uckfield - who belonged to the Just Kant Stop and the Forever Doing Crime crew - were jailed for a combined total of more than six years for their part the £60,000 worth of damage.

British Transport Police said the four were prolific vandals who caused delays and disruptions to train services after they defaced carriages during organised overnight tagging sessions – many committed while on bail.

According to police, they were linked to the crimes through photographs, paint cans and materials seized from their homes, as well as vehicles belonging to Collister and Setzdempsey containing spray cans and masks.

Among the items were pictures taken of the gang at work vandalising trains.

Mobile text messages planning the attacks were also retrieved by police.

Detective Sergeant Pete Thrush said the vandals were so intent on causing damage that not even the threat of death had deterred them.

"In 2004 Austin was arrested for trespassing on the railway in an incident where he received an electric shock from the 750 volt live rail.

"Yet he continued to trespass to spray graffiti on trains and sidings.

"In 2006 he handed an ASBO preventing him from carrying spray paint, but he was subsequently linked to a series of offences."

D Sgt Thrush said the group were linked to crimes via photographs, paint cans and materials seized from their homes.

Vehicles belonging to Collister and Setzdempsey containing spray cans, masks and other materials were also seized.

Tags belonging to the group were linked back to offences across the southeast, including Epsom.

"Numerous bits of graffiti paraphernalia were seized during various house searches.

"Many had tags linking back to each of them on everything from railway timetables to shoe boxes, with even a pair of slippers being seized with their tags on it," D Sgt Thrush said.

He said the group would communicate by text message to plan their next attack.

One such message included: "Safe M8 U up 4 doin a live tube plot 2nite". Another stated: "I'm doin sum track sides by myself anyway I've got 6 cans of stella an paint."

D Sgt Thrush said: "These people are persistent dedicated vandals.

"The court has recognised the seriousness of the offences, the risk these young men take with their lives and the cost to the train companies and public of south London.

"I would rather see people go to court than go to the morgue."

The four sentenced on Friday after pleading guilty to conspiracy to commit criminal damage.

Judge Stephen Robbins said, in sentencing, graffiti and criminal damage was a serious offence and a jail term would act as a deterrent to others.

"The fact is that this type of offending sickens members of the public who have their travelling lives blighted by this sort of criminal damage," he said.

Collister was sentenced to 30 months jail for conspiracy after he was linked to tags SKEAMS, SKEAMZ, SKEAM and FDC.

Austin was sentenced to 18 months jail for the conspiracy. He was linked to the tag FDC.

Piehl was sentenced to 12 months jail for the conspiracy. He was linked to the tags SKAM and JKS.

Setzdempsey was sentenced to 15 months jail for the conspiracy. He was linked to the tags NOIS and JKS.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

*In Belgium It's a serious problem. I'd say 50% of all rolling stock is cladded.*










































































































































































































































































































Old metro station in charlerloi:


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

*Discusting graffiti in Belgium:*


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

*More Belgium*


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)




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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

*Belgian trains:*


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

*A must see !!!!*

*Worst train station in Belgium:* Kapellekerk in Brussels


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## manrush (May 8, 2008)

There seems to be little to no graffiti problems on the T and Commuter rail.

I could also be in denial about this.


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## bayviews (Mar 3, 2006)

manrush said:


> There seems to be little to no graffiti problems on the T and Commuter rail.
> 
> I could also be in denial about this.


No, actually, it seems the case that most of the eastern US cities have a low tolerance for graffitti. 

NYC & Philly were the worst, but NYC really cleaned it up. Boston never seemed as bad. 

When public budgets are very tight everywhere across the US as they are now, cleaning up graffitti gets a lower priority.

Worst of all though is how transit has turned into fast food on wheels, with all the resultant mess & inconvieience.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

bayviews said:


> No, actually, it seems the case that most of the eastern US cities have a low tolerance for graffitti.
> 
> NYC & Philly were the worst, but NYC really cleaned it up. Boston never seemed as bad.
> 
> ...


Graffiti cleaning in Belgium has also low priority. And I must say the trains that are cleaned look awfull aftherwards: they don't get repainted and on a lot of trains you can see the damaged origional paint with a lot of scratches on, or they get overpainted but not clearing the windows and that kind of stuffhno:. The NMBS(nationale maatschappij der belgische spoorwegen)National Belgian railways system all run by our gouvernment wich has bigger problems on his hands nowadays... It's crisis and they can't afford repainting or repairing...It's really sad!


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

*Here is site on Graffiti on Belgian Trains:*

http://www.fatcap.com/article/bbo-1.html


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## manrush (May 8, 2008)

The graffiti problem in Belgium can almost be compared to the graffiti problem in Italy.

*Almost*.


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

I think they should treat tagged cars as unsuitable for services, and so tagged stations. They shall remain closed and emergency cleaning teams should be deployed overnight if needed. Graffiti shall not be tolerated, regardless of the any bullshit argument about "the youth don't having a voice".


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

Suburbanist said:


> I think they should treat tagged cars as unsuitable for services, and so tagged stations. They shall remain closed and emergency cleaning teams should be deployed overnight if needed. Graffiti shall not be tolerated, regardless of the any bullshit argument about "the youth don't having a voice".


You know, I actually agree with you for once. I hate graffiti on transport systems.


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## Busfotodotnl (Mar 18, 2009)

Dorfmeister said:


> This is definitely not a train running in Belgium.
> 
> MS75/AM75 doesn't have flat side panels nor do they have that much doors per cars.


This is a German train.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

That Hitler train is so hardcore, though it is offensive to others!


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

I dont get this fascination many people have with taggers as if trains were made better when vandalized


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## Rail_Serbia (May 29, 2009)

Teach said:


> Also, can I please ask that people stop posting pictures of trains with graffiti on them over here? I know you guys probably mean well, but you're actually helping the vandals: by posting their 'work' online for everyone to see, you're giving them the attention they so desperately crave, and thus encounraging them to go out and do more. Many train enthusiast discussion boards already have rules in place banning the posting of pictures of tagged trains for this very reason. Thank you!


I have one better suggestion: use dice to conceal, like for pornography. It would make better effect...maybe...


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## SydneyCity (Nov 14, 2010)

Graffiti on Sydney's CityRail network is still an ongoing problem, although it is nowhere near as bad as it used to be. It is relatively rare these days to see any train with any marking other than a small tag or scribble on the exterior actually in revenue service, but in the late 1980s and 1990s, graffiti was rampant on the network and it wasn't uncommon for trains to be completely caked in graffiti.

Interior graffiti is still sadly a large problem on all modes of public transport, particularly window etching. Most train windows have some tag scratched into them.

Some Sydney graffiti:


New Cityrail livery? by mattb26j, on Flickr

Grimey by nitro.vo, on Flickr

Pardn? by Sir Topham Hatt., on Flickr


back seat by _littlestar_, on Flickr

Due to the problem of graffiti, some Sydney bus seats have fabric like this in order to deter it:

15 | Dale Harrison by Ambiguous Horse, on Flickr


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## xrtn2 (Jan 12, 2011)

in Brazilian big cities very serious

in 1Brazilian small cities there arent grafitti

In my city 260,000 inhabitants isnt a problem, thanks God, our viaducts and new places are very clean.


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## fbeavis (Feb 8, 2012)

Sydney's public transit looks third world in those pics. Looks like an NYC subway car from the 80's.


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## webeagle12 (Oct 1, 2007)

To people who are for graffiti on public transportation, bring you cars over here, I'll spray paint it all over.... then I'll ask if it still looks good to you.

Damaging public transportation cost money to company, which will pass a buck to customers in order to offset the cost of repairs. Lets me do that shit to your property and see if it's right or not....


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## State of the Union (Jul 12, 2010)

I still don't get the purpose behind this. People who are proponents of graffiti often use the "they just want to be known" argument. You can't even read that $hit. It just makes everything look $hitty for no reason.

There already is a negative stigma associated with public transportation. I would love to ride in a clean, stylish new bus that doesn't have some idiot's idiotic gangster name all over it.


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## jayradikal (Feb 13, 2012)

fbeavis said:


> Sydney's public transit looks third world in those pics. Looks like an NYC subway car from the 80's.


Heh, thanks, that's the look I was going for when I took the photo (2nd one is mine)

They are infact from the 80s, they've been slowly phased out over the years with newer models but they're still around. Worst on summer days. 

I'm a fan of graffiti, but not texta tagging or scrappy work. In the 80s it had it's whole culture going, which it still does but these days it's just dirty Lads Ironic description of them. They do a lot of the yuck texta ones, much like in my picture. They have no class or style. Window etching is the worst.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Movie about train bombing:

Hide and seek

part2: The Netherlands + Belgium

the belgian part starts @ 5:00 You'll immediatly see the extend of the problem.






Part 3: Belgium






Part 4: Belgium+ Germany


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## Silly_Walks (Aug 23, 2010)

There are some beautiful graffiti works of art. But in my opinion, people that deface public or private property should be locked up for a few years.


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## poshbakerloo (Jan 16, 2007)

In the UK you pretty much never ever see any graffiti on trains! Maybe some very minor tagging but thats about it. They other day when I went into work the train I used had one of its coaches gratified outside, but that was the first time I have ever seen it on the line in my 22 years of life.

I know in the 90s London Underground has quite a bit, particularly on its older and unpainted trains. Pretty much all UK trains have bright liverys which put people off grafiti as it doesn't show up as well as a silver train...

An urban train service like this in most places would have graffiti but not in London


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## Dimethyltryptamine (Aug 22, 2009)

It's not really an issue here, as it tends to be buffed off trains as soon as it's spotted in an attempt to curb graffiti (i.e. what's the point if it's going to be gone by sun rise)

Here's a video made by some of the graffers


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## Sopomon (Oct 2, 2010)

poshbakerloo said:


> In the UK you pretty much never ever see any graffiti on trains! Maybe some very minor tagging but thats about it. They other day when I went into work the train I used had one of its coaches gratified outside, but that was the first time I have ever seen it on the line in my 22 years of life.
> 
> I know in the 90s London Underground has quite a bit, particularly on its older and unpainted trains. Pretty much all UK trains have bright liverys which put people off grafiti as it doesn't show up as well as a silver train...
> 
> An urban train service like this in most places would have graffiti but not in London



Naw, graffiti happens a hell of a lot in London, but like in the post above, they buff it off super quick, and as well as that, CCTV, CCTV everywhere. Every rail yard in the Capital has cameras everywhere. (Kinda fitting in with the UK's surveillance culture)


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

^^ BUnch of criminal losers who should be chased with teaser and what else out of subway property.

I don't understand why they don't put more security around tunnels or else. Especially in subways where you don't have many points of entry.... or depots, where high-voltage electric fence and razor-wire can deter these thugs.


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## Silly_Walks (Aug 23, 2010)

In Hong Kong I saw there was a 5000 HKD fine for graffiti. That seemed to work.


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## Frank IBC (Jan 14, 2008)

Virtually nonexistent on Washington DC's metro system (although there is some on private buildings and bridges along the right of way). I'm very proud of that.


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## HARTride 2012 (Apr 1, 2007)

joshsam said:


> Movie about train bombing:
> 
> Hide and seek
> 
> ...


The level of graffiti in Belgium disgusts me. :/


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## bayviews (Mar 3, 2006)

Frank IBC said:


> Virtually nonexistent on Washington DC's metro system (although there is some on private buildings and bridges along the right of way). I'm very proud of that.


Indeed, you've every reason to be proud! The Washington Metro really is fantastic model of a very clean & well run subway with very little graffti, crime, or other annoyances. Kudos to WMATA management & staff & particularly the metro riders of the Washington, Virginia, Maryland region!


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

HARTride 2012 said:


> The level of graffiti in Belgium disgusts me. :/


Nothing is really done to tackle the problem. Most trains at night are in trainyards that are not or very poorly garded. It really invites graffiti painters...Belgium needs to tackle the problem in similar way like NYC does. The only country I've seen in Europe that does worse is Italy. There wasn't a single train or metro in Rome that wasn't painted completely full and I mean completely!

like this!: :nuts:


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## HARTride 2012 (Apr 1, 2007)

joshsam said:


> Nothing is really done to tackle the problem. Most trains at night are in trainyards that are not or very poorly garded. It really invites graffiti painters...Belgium needs to tackle the problem in similar way like NYC does.


Agreed. When I visited Brussels in 2009, there were many of the buildings in downtown, surrounding the train stations, were tagged as well.


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## Dahlis (Aug 29, 2008)

I havent seen graffitti on a train in Stockholm for many years.


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

Dahlis said:


> I havent seen graffitti on a train in Stockholm for many years.


I had a bit of an issue at Vårby Gård. Some little thugs jumped the fence and started tagging the train. For safety purposes the driver didn't take off until they had finished. But once they had finished the train did proceed to Norsborg before being taken out of service and cleaned. Trains aren't allowed to run with graffiti here which I think is great.

On a side note, though. I did take pictures of the morons tagging the train and sent them to the police and SL. Hopefully they'll be taken to task.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

HARTride 2012 said:


> The level of graffiti in Belgium disgusts me. :/


3 years later , nothing changed. Video made in August this year:


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## Zaz965 (Jan 24, 2015)

line 5, são paulo








https://brasil.elpais.com/brasil/2016/03/02/politica/1456956313_726844.html


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## Zaz965 (Jan 24, 2015)

huge graffiti in são paulo subway line 2


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