# American Football (outside the USA)



## Double Duty (Aug 20, 2012)

Velodromo Maspes-Vigorelli, home of the Rhinos Milano American football team:


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## Double Duty (Aug 20, 2012)

Various X-League and collegiate football games in Japan:

The Koshien Bowl at Koshien Stadium in Nishinomiya:



The Pine Bowl at the Sapporo Dome:


Football at Seibu Dome:


Football at Yokohama Stadium:


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

weava said:


> Most Canadian schools use*Canadian football*rules adapted for the high school game. The exception is*British Columbia, which uses NFHS rules as used in the United States.[4]
> 
> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_school_football
> 
> ...


Well how odd is that? People in BC always say they feel cut off from the rest of Canada and more in line with Washington/Oregon so here's another example of that. The only other part of Canada like that is the extreme SW of Ontario. They're culturally American in every way as they tune into Michigan media rather than Ontario. Their cultural reference point for everything is the US rather than their own country. They don't even support their own sports teams, they consider Michigan teams the 'home team'.


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## Scba (Nov 20, 2004)

Football at some of those Japanese baseball stadiums looks uncomfortable.


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

I would assume this is the largest American Football specific stadium outside of the US

Estadio Gaspar Mass.
Monterrey, Mexico
capacity: 16,000 
team: Universidad Autónoma de Nuevo León Auténticos Tigres


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Estadio Olímpico Universitario (1968 Summer Olympics, 1986 FIFA World Cup)
Mexico City, Mexico
Capacity	68,954
team: Pumas CU UNAM (Cougars)


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Estadio Olímpico de la UACH
Chihuahua, Mexico
Capacity	22,000
team: Águilas UACH (Eagles)


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Estadio Juan Josafat Pichardo Cruz
Toluca, Mexico
capacity: ?
team: Potros Salvajes UAEM


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

American college football is starting a tradition of playing in Dublin, Ireland. the 5th "Emerald Isle Classic" will be played this Saturday. Penn St vs. UCF at Croke Park.










In 2012, 48,820 watched Notre Dame play Navy at Aviva Stadium










1988	Lansdowne Road	Boston College vs. Army: 42,525	
1989	Lansdowne Road	Pittsburgh vs. Rutgers: 45,525	
1996	Croke Park	Notre Dame vs. Navy: 38,651
2012	Aviva Stadium Notre Dame vs. Navy	: 48,820	
2014	Croke Park Penn State vs. UCF	TBD


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## mamangvilla (Jun 23, 2009)

That's a rather big jump to move from Aviva to Croke. Are they sure they can fill it up to capacity?


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Croke Park, Dublin


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

NFL at Wembley (8 games since 2007; there will be 3 more this 2014 fall season)


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

*Austria:*
Vienna Vikings can anyone identity this stadium?









Tivoli Stadium: home of SWARCO Raiders


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

*Brazil: *


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

*Germany: *

New Yorker Lions: Eintracht-Stadion


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## diablo234 (Aug 18, 2008)

Sort of off-topic but I figured I should post this here since it shows how much American football (particularly the Dallas Cowboys) is popular in Mexico.










*A Road Trip, Mexican Style, to Watch the Cowboys*



> By JULIÁN AGUILAR
> Published: December 17, 2011
> 
> MONTERREY, Mexico —The convenience store was the last stop until the border on the road leading out of this industrial Mexican city, and Raul Vargas, a tour guide, made his instructions clear: the 24 die-hard Cowboys fans on his charter bus should get their snacks and beer now, because this bus would not stop again until it reached the United States Customs checkpoint in Laredo.
> ...


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## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

I'm actually kind of surprised that American football appears to have a bigger following than Rugby Union in many European nations (As a matter of expense and cultural proximety). Very impressed with the crowds in the likes of Germany and Austria


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## Chimaera (Mar 14, 2007)

weava said:


> *Austria:*
> Vienna Vikings can anyone identity this stadium?


Ernst Happel Stadium.


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## Rev Stickleback (Jun 23, 2009)

Walbanger said:


> I'm actually kind of surprised that American football appears to have a bigger following than Rugby Union in many European nations (As a matter of expense and cultural proximety). Very impressed with the crowds in the likes of Germany and Austria


The NFL is a rather more glamorous product to sell than rugby union, where the game is still played usually at small provincial stadiums. Amateurism, lasting up until 1995, probably stifled the game's development more than any other factor.

What is noticeable is that despite the interest in the NFL in the UK, the domestic game is viewed with almost total apathy. Fans seem to be fans of the NFL first, and the game second.


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2014)

Rev Stickleback said:


> The NFL is a rather more glamorous product to sell than rugby union, where the game is still played usually at small provincial stadiums. Amateurism, lasting up until 1995, probably stifled the game's development more than any other factor.
> 
> What is noticeable is that despite the interest in the NFL in the UK, the domestic game is viewed with almost total apathy. Fans seem to be fans of the NFL first, and the game second.


Rugby is way bigger than football (American) in countries where rugby is a traditional major sport, such an England or France. In Germany, that has never been the case. Rugby is practically non-existent there from what I can tell. 

The Germans seem way more of an Americanized nation, and you'll notice that they also have well supported ice hockey and basketball leagues, which are nowhere to be found in say, the UK. At least not as big as in Germany, where they both average over 4,000. 

I also think your assessment of Brits is unfair. Apathy towards amateur competition? Can you blame them? The interest isn't there to support a professional league, and I wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to watch amateurs.


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## Rev Stickleback (Jun 23, 2009)

5portsF4n said:


> Rugby is way bigger than football (American) in countries where rugby is a traditional major sport, such an England or France. In Germany, that has never been the case. Rugby is practically non-existent there from what I can tell.
> 
> The Germans seem way more of an Americanized nation, and you'll notice that they also have well supported ice hockey and basketball leagues, which are nowhere to be found in say, the UK. At least not as big as in Germany, where they both average over 4,000.
> 
> I also think your assessment of Brits is unfair. Apathy towards amateur competition? Can you blame them? The interest isn't there to support a professional league, and I wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to watch amateurs.


Rugby isn't really a rival to American football though, and the existence or not of rugby in the country has no real bearing on whether American Football is popular at domestic level.

Yes, the game is amateur in the UK, but the same would have been true in Germany, and they started getting the crowds.

Maybe having multiple NFLE teams helped the game in Germany a great deal, creating a sense of national competition that didn't ever exist in the UK. By the time a 2nd UK team was added, support for the Monarchs was already on a death spiral.

Than again, a quick look at the German wiki page shows that the game has being going on a long time in Germany, since the 1970s.


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2014)

What are attendances like in the UK?

I've found a source for attendances in the GFL in Germany. Instead of doing the maths, I've categorized them in tiers. These are for the 2013 seasonhttp://stats.gfl.info/gfl/2013/confstat.htm

*Attendance*
Under 1,000: 66
Between 1,000-2,000: 27
Between 2,000-3,000: 12
Between 3,000-4,000: 3
Between 4,000-5,000: 3
Between 5,000-10,000: 5
Over 10,000: 1

There were about 6 without any recorded attendance.


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

> Velodromo Vigorelli is a velodrome in Milan, Italy. It is currently used mostly for American football events. The stadium holds 9,000 people and was built in 1935 by Vigorelli Cycles. It was burned down during the second world war after bombing of Milan by the RAF[1] but then rebuilt.


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

46,000 attended the Mexican Championship game last weekend. Pumas CU Authentic beat Tigres UANL in the final of the ONEFA


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## djwizard84 (Nov 21, 2007)

That's the 1968 Olympic stadium in Mexico City. Somehow it's like our rose bowl  a must visit when you are in the city.


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## CollegeBoy (May 10, 2014)

What's the Japanese's level of interest with American football?


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Chimaera said:


> Ernst Happel Stadium.


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## lemog (Oct 2, 2009)

Brazil have 2 rival leagues: Superliga, which is the official league, and Touchdown, which is considered the most prestigious. Can't find information about attendence though. Both leagues are in the playoffs:


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## Zack Fair (Jan 31, 2010)

isaidso said:


> I believe Simon Fraser University in Vancouver plays American Football. They're the only team in Canada that I know of. I suppose they'd be some recreational teams here and there that do.


That's because they are the only Canadian school to play in the NCAA's Division II.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Zack Fair said:


> That's because they are the only Canadian school to play in the NCAA's Division II.


To most college football fans in this country Simon Fraser fell off the face of the earth. I bet many assumed their program went belly up. Out of sight, out of mind. Hopefully their US experiment will be a short one and they'll come back to the fold. It's plain bizarre that they'd abandon Canadian Football, our national university league, and erase themselves from their own country's sports landscape.

I have nothing against American Football, but why jump ship when 99% of the football played in this country is Canadian Football?


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## carnifex2005 (May 12, 2010)

isaidso said:


> To most college football fans in this country Simon Fraser fell off the face of the earth. I bet many assumed their program went belly up. Out of sight, out of mind. Hopefully their US experiment will be a short one and they'll come back to the fold. It's plain bizarre that they'd abandon Canadian Football, our national university league, and erase themselves from their own country's sports landscape.
> 
> I have nothing against American Football, but why jump ship when 99% of the football played in this country is Canadian Football?


They used to play in the NAIA (US) for years before joining CIS for about a decade. The only reason they are back in the US is because the NCAA finally allowed them to join full time. I do remember they had one good CIS run about a couple of years after joining but then faded back into obscurity. The biggest reason for playing in the US is the massively decreased travel costs. UBC has also toyed around with joining the NCAA because of that reason too.


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## mvcg66b3r (Sep 16, 2011)

Just a few more seasons and we might see Simon Fraser move up to the Football Championship Subdivision (I-AA).


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## Zack Fair (Jan 31, 2010)

isaidso said:


> To most college football fans in this country Simon Fraser fell off the face of the earth. I bet many assumed their program went belly up. Out of sight, out of mind. *Hopefully their US experiment will be a short one and they'll come back to the fold.* It's plain bizarre that they'd abandon Canadian Football, our national university league, and erase themselves from their own country's sports landscape.
> 
> I have nothing against American Football, but why jump ship when 99% of the football played in this country is Canadian Football?


I don't get your statement. Why should they fail in the NCAA? Just because you don't like to see a Canadian university playing in an American league? I don't buy your "To most college football fans in this country Simon Fraser fell off the face of the earth", just because you don't like it, doesn't mean you can speak for all football fans in this country, isaidso. Football is football, I don't think people now despise SFU because they play in the NCAA, in the same way they don't dislike Canadian players going south to play for some college team or been drafted by the Broncos or the Ravens. 
College football in Canada doesn't produce enough good player, and scouts don't even bother to take in consideration Canadians universities. Maybe Simon Fraser will be the first of many, and hopefully that will improve the current situation. And yes, I want to see more Canadians in the NFL, hopefully we'll see one day a canuck quaterback winning a Superbowl.


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## EdooGdl (Aug 28, 2009)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHVmhyZGrWg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0fOfLh8YFU


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Brazil defeats Panama; Earns Nation’s First Berth to World Championships

Estadio Rommel Fernández, Panama City, Panama


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## Bobby3 (Jun 26, 2007)

So weird seeing uprights without a curved post.


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## iurruti24 (Feb 28, 2014)

Any Football stadium planned outside USA?


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## The Real Gazmon (Jun 20, 2013)

So, I understand the differences between the CFL and NFL, but are there any similar differences from NFL to European/Mexican leagues, etc? In terms of the laws/rules.


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

The Real Gazmon said:


> So, I understand the differences between the CFL and NFL, but are there any similar differences from NFL to European/Mexican leagues, etc? In terms of the laws/rules.


From what I've seen, most leagues outside the US tend to adopt NCAA's rules rather than the NFL's rules.


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## EdooGdl (Aug 28, 2009)

*SOME AMERICAN FOOTBALL STADIUMS IN MEXICO *

ESTADIO OLÍMPICO UNIVERSITARIO - PUMAS UNAM 



















ESTADIO TECNOLÓGICO - BORREGOS ITESM


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## EdooGdl (Aug 28, 2009)

ESTADIO WILFRIDO MASSIEU - AGUILAS BLANCAS IPN




























ESTADIO JOM - LINCES UVM




























ESTADIO OLIMPICO UACH - AGUILAS UACH


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## EdooGdl (Aug 28, 2009)

ESTADIO GASPAR MASS - AUTÉNTICOS TIGRES UANL 




























LA CUEVA DEL LEÓN - LEONES ANAHUAC SUR


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## EdooGdl (Aug 28, 2009)

ESTADIO UNIVERSITARIO UANL


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## CollegeBoy (May 10, 2014)

Hmm...it might be better for the NFL to put a team in Mexico City rather than London.


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## Lumbergo (Nov 17, 2009)

it would make a hell of a lot more sense (something I think the NFL is lacking these days but that's another story)


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

will the team in Monterrey, MX play in the new stadium under construction or will they stay at ESTADIO UNIVERSITARIO UANL ?


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2015)

weava said:


> will the team in Monterrey, MX play in the new stadium under construction or will they stay at ESTADIO UNIVERSITARIO UANL ?


The image posted above is of a college football team (Autenticos Tigres UANL). They normally play in a 15,000 seater, though they have taken some games - like Championship games (they are one of the most successful programs btw) - to the 45,000 seat Estadio Universitario, which is the image shown above. The Universitario is also located on the campus. 

There are two major soccer teams in Monterrey. One is CF Monterrey, the other is Tigres UANL (UANL being the name of the college). 

The reason why I'm telling you all this is that the new stadium being built in Monterrey is CF Monterrey's, not Tigres. Since Tigres UANL and Autenticos Tigres UANL are tied to the college, they will both continue playing of campus stadiums. If Tigres UANL ever gets a new stadium, I'm sure it will host some Autenticos Tigres games too. 

This is their regular stadium:


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## EdooGdl (Aug 28, 2009)

Well, in México the higher level in football is in the college (some teams have the level and infrastructure of a NCAA div II team). In Monterrey the biggest teams are Autenticos Tigres de la UANL ( Nuevo Leon State Authentic Tigers) and Borregos del Tecnológico de Monterrey ( Monterrey Tech Rams). 

Autenticos Tigres plays regular games in Gaspar Mass Stadium and the Championship games take place in Estadio Universitario that also belongs to the UANL, but is the home of Tigres FC too (the major soccer team)

The Borregos stadium is the Estadio Tecnológico, placed in Tecnológico de Monterrey campus, this stadium is also home of Rayados FC, the other major soccer team in the city, but in a few months Rayados is moving to their a new modern stadium, and Estadio Tecnológico will disappear, and the university will build a smaller but nice and modern american football stadium for Borregos.

Estadio Tecnológico:



















The new home of Borregos:


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

EdooGdl said:


> The Borregos stadium is the Estadio Tecnológico, placed in Tecnológico de Monterrey campus, this stadium is also home of Rayados FC, the other major soccer team in the city, but in a few months Rayados is moving to their a new modern stadium, and Estadio Tecnológico will disappear, and the university will build a smaller but nice and modern american football stadium for Borregos.
> 
> Estadio Tecnológico:
> 
> The new home of Borregos:


That looks great. How much will it seat/cost?


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2015)

EdooGdl said:


> Well, in México the higher level in football is in the college (some teams have the level and infrastructure of a NCAA div II team). In Monterrey the biggest teams are Autenticos Tigres de la UANL ( Nuevo Leon State Authentic Tigers) and Borregos del Tecnológico de Monterrey ( Monterrey Tech Rams).
> 
> Autenticos Tigres plays regular games in Gaspar Mass Stadium and the Championship games take place in Estadio Universitario that also belongs to the UANL, but is the home of Tigres FC too (the major soccer team)


With Monterrey getting a new stadium, how long do you think it will be before Tigres look elsewhere too?


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## CozMan (Feb 6, 2015)

Monterrey is a great sports town, they support all of their teams, especially the football teams they have been selling out their stadium for decades, even when Tigres got related.


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## CozMan (Feb 6, 2015)

I think an American Football team in Mexico would do well but the ticket prices would have to be lowered, for example big football derbies here in Mexico are no higher than $200 dollars. They could play some games in Mexico City, Monterrey , Hermosillo or other northern city where the game is followed the most.


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## iurruti24 (Feb 28, 2014)

Amazing stadium for Football outside The USA! Good job in Mexico!


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## Double Duty (Aug 20, 2012)

You can watch the Koshien Bowl LXIX (played on December 14, 2014) from Japan on USTREAM:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/56441416


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## carnifex2005 (May 12, 2010)

Double Duty said:


> You can watch the Koshien Bowl LXIX (played on December 14, 2014) from Japan on USTREAM:
> 
> http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/56441416


Here's the second half.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/56441423


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## Double Duty (Aug 20, 2012)

Elite Football League of India

http://www.efli.com






Uncertainty prevails despite hype surrounding EFLI


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## Welkin (Sep 3, 2010)

If you get the chance, pick up John Grisham's book "Playing for Pizza" about life in the Italian Football League. Not a bad little read. Made me want to go to Italy for the food and a game.


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## RegiON4 (Dec 11, 2012)

weava said:


> That looks great. How much will it seat/cost?


The new stadium will be part of a new district of the Tecnológico de Monterrey, the budget is 500 million dollars, this began when the soccer stadium is completed and the old stadium demolished. The stadium you mention will for over 10k people, exclusively for football.


All District Project in the official thread here : http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1699803


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## larsul (May 26, 2007)

RegiON4 said:


> The new stadium will be part of a new district of the Tecnológico de Monterrey, the budget is 500 million dollars, this began when the soccer stadium is completed and the old stadium demolished. The stadium you mention will for over 10k people, exclusively for football.
> 
> 
> All District Project in the official thread here : http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1699803


you mean 500 million Pesos right? because there's no way that stadium can cost that amount of money.


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## Double Duty (Aug 20, 2012)

Various Bowl games in Japan:

Christmas Bowl, Ajinomoto Stadium, Chofu, Tokyo - Japanese High School Championship Game


Pine Bowl, Sapporo Dome, Sapporo, Hokkaido - College Football Champion of Hokkaido vs. College Football Champion of Tohoku
  

Azuma Bowl, Yokohama Stadium, Yokohama, Kanagawa - Kanto Collegiate League Championship Game



Koshien Bowl, Koshien Stadium, Nishinomiya, Hyogo - College Champion of the Kanto Region (East Japan) vs. College Champion of the Kansai Region (West Japan)
 

Japan X-Bowl - Championship Game for the X-League (highest level of football in Japan consisting of company teams and club teams sponsored by companies)


Rice Bowl, Tokyo Dome, Bunkyo, Tokyo - X League Champion (Japan X Bowl) vs College Champion (Koshien Bowl)


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## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

I find it odd that American Football in Japan would prefer to play at Ballparks rather than Soccer/Rugby Stadiums which Japan has no lack of.
Also some of those Ballparks are of the Cookiecutter variety with the rotating seating on the wings yet they have left them in Baseball mode. Maybe too costly to move?


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

I was looking at Toulouse, France on google maps today and noticed they had an Astroturf American football field, turns out they even have a female team, something that isn't even common in the US...


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

So in interesting news, the 2017 NFL pro bowl will be in...... Brazil? Sounds like the sport is really taking off there from these articles.

NFL considering Brazil for Pro Bowl




> Brazil already has two well-established semi-professional leagues in place, and television ratings for the NFL are increasing rapidly.
> 
> The league is also available on the broadcast channel Esporte Interativo, which said games reached 23.8 million people in Brazil last season, with an average of almost 900,000 per game.
> 
> ...


American football growing quickly in Brazil


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## luispradogt (Mar 23, 2015)

*Jajaja*

Jajaja


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## slipperydog (Jul 19, 2009)

NFL looking to play games in Mexico, Germany (Frankfurt/Dusseldorf) in 2017. 

Considering the Pro Bowl to Brazil in 2017.

Still on track for a permanent NFL franchise in London by 2022.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...any-to-host-nfl-games-league-explores-markets


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## noize (Jul 24, 2004)

...


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Zack Fair said:


> don't buy your "To most college football fans in this country Simon Fraser fell off the face of the earth"


Except for the fact that they have. Most people assume their football program went belly up because they're not in CIS any more. When you check the standings, watch University Rush/college football weekly wrap ups, newspaper sports pages they're never mentioned any more. It's like they don't exist and never did.

SFU can do what they want but they've also effectively erased themselves from the Canadian sports landscape.


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

The NFL is going to play 2 exhibition games in New Zealand (using players who don't make the teams...) , one at Eden Park in Auckland and the other at Wellington Regional Stadium.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/68991114/nfl-set-for-historic-pair-of-matches-in-nz



> The ground-breaking concept, which has been nearly four years in the making and is likely to be called the Southern Bowl, will involve six NFL franchises – including the Cowboys, the San Francisco 49ers and the Arizona Cardinals.
> 
> Once the final 53-man rosters for the 2015-16 season for those franchises are confirmed in late July, two high-profile coaches will select squads from those players who miss the cut. The coaches will likely announce their squads towards the end of September.
> 
> That puts the likes of Hayne, who is thought to be on the verge of making the final cut with the 49ers, and Hamilton's Paul Lasike, who signed with the Cardinals at the start of this month, firmly in the frame to play.


Maybe these exhibition games will be used like a minor league? interesting concept and i'm sure the players will enjoy getting paid to play in games after getting cut.


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

American football to make Dublin return



> Dublin is set to host another Anerican College football game with the news that Boston College and Georgia Tech will face each other at the Aviva Stadium on Saturday 3 September 2016.


http://www.rte.ie/sport/other-sport/2015/0604/705824-american-colleges-football-makes-dublin-return/


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## KamZolt (Oct 22, 2010)

*Falcon Fields*. More of (just) a field than a stadium, but still home to Tychy Falcons - a team which plays in the 1st Division of the Polish American Football League (PLFA I).  (pictures from June 6, 2015)


FALCONS VS REBELS_1 by Kamil Zoltowski, on Flickr


FALCONS VS REBELS by Kamil Zoltowski, on Flickr


FALCONS VS REBELS_3 by Kamil Zoltowski, on Flickr​


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## KamZolt (Oct 22, 2010)

Last game at Falcons Field this season (PLFA I). Tychy Falcons vs Tytani Lublin 41-0  (June 20, 2015)


FALCONS vs TYTANI 2 by Kamil Zoltowski, on Flickr


FALCONS vs TYTANI 3 by Kamil Zoltowski, on Flickr


FALCONS vs TYTANI 1 by Kamil Zoltowski, on Flickr​


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

The Italian Championship had an attendance of 4,500










http://www.americanfootballinternat...en-win-italian-championship-in-front-of-4500/


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Big crowd of 14,000+ for a championship game in Brazil. 

Pantanal Arena hosted the final of the Superliga South Centre of Football
http://espn.uol.com.br/noticia/5594...u-maior-publico-na-historia-na-arena-pantanal


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

First American football sport specific stadium opened in Hungary.

http://www.americanfootballinternational.com/hungary-records-historic-first-ever-international-win/


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

*LONDON - New White Hart Lane (61,461)*

Well, I guess our new stadium deserves a mention in this thread seeing as we've entered into a partnership with the NFL starting in 2018:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...tenham-hotspur-ink-10year-stadium-partnership
http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/new-scheme/
http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/new-scheme/stadium/#welcoming-the-nfl

*Construction cams:*
http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/new-scheme/stadium-tv/



> *The NFL will play a minimum of two games per year during a 10-year partnership at our new Stadium.*
> 
> The new stadium has been designed for multi-use, including a structurally engineered fully retractable pitch – the first for any stadium in the UK – to ensure that the football playing surface is always in peak condition.
> 
> ...





meatball1 said:


> *Tottenham Hotspur FC*
> 
> 2x League:
> 1951, 1961
> ...


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=549397

And an unofficial animation create by weretheshelfside showing how the conversion will work:









http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=134402420&postcount=19664


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## Scba (Nov 20, 2004)

Where does the top field vanish off into?


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Scba said:


> Where does the top field vanish off into?


When the artificial surface is in use, the grass pitch will sit under the south stand. The reason it splits into three is to allow for the underground columns supporting that stand:


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

picture from the first American football stadium in Hungary. In Székesfehérvár, west of Budapest


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Hungarian League at Białystok City Stadium


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)




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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Top 20 European Teams: 

#1 Swarco Raiders. 

Founded	1992
League	Austrian Football League
Based in: Innsbruck, Austria
Stadium: Tivoli Stadium Tirol


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Top 20 European Teams: 

#2 Schwäbisch Hall Unicorns 

Founded	1983
League	German Football League
Based in	Schwäbisch Hall, Germany
Stadium	Optima Sportpark


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Top 20 European Teams: 

#3 New Yorker Lions

Founded	1987
League	German Football League
Based in	Braunschweig, Germany
Stadium	Eintracht-Stadion


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Top 20 European Teams: 

#4 Dresden Monarchs

Founded	1992
League	German Football League
Based in	Dresden, Germany
Stadium	Heinz-Steyer-Stadion; DDV-Stadion Dresden


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Top 20 European Teams: 

#5 Frankfurt Universe

Founded	2007
League	German Football League
Based in	Frankfurt
Stadium	Frankfurter Volksbank Stadion


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Top 20 European Teams: 

#6 Kiel Baltic Hurricanes

Founded	1988
League	German Football League
Based in	Kiel, Germany
Stadium	Kilia Stadion


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Top 20 European Teams: 

#7 Graz Giants

Founded	1981
League Austrian Football League
Based in Graz
Stadium ASKÖ Stadium Graz-Eggenberg


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Top 20 European Teams: 

#8 Amsterdam Crusaders

Founded:	1984
League: American Football Bond Nederland
Based in Amsterdam
Stadium:Sportpark Sloten


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Top 20 European Teams: 

#9 Berlin Rebels

Founded	1987
League	German Football League
Based in	Berlin, Germany
Stadium: Mommsenstadion


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Top 20 European Teams: 

#10 Vikings Vienna

Founded	1983
League	Austrian Football League
Based in	Vienna
Stadium:	Hohe Warte Stadium, FAC-Platz


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Top 20 European Teams: 

#11 Rhinos Milano

Founded	1977
League	Italian Football League
Based in	Milano
Stadium:	Velodromo Vigorelli











future?


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Top 20 European Teams: 

#12 Saarland Hurricanes

Founded	1982
League	German Football League
Based in Saarbrücken, Germany
Stadium	Ludwigsparkstadion


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Top 20 European Teams: 

#13 Panthers Wrocław

Founded	2013
League	Polish American Football League
Based in	Wrocław, Poland
Stadium	Wrocław Olympic Stadium


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Top 20 European Teams: 

#14 Allgäu Comets

Founded	1982
League	German Football League
Based in	Kempten
Stadium	Illerstadion


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Top 20 European Teams: 

#15 Carlstad Crusaders

Founded	1991
League	Superserien
Based in	Karlstad, Sweden
Stadium	Tingvalla IP


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Top 20 European Teams: 

#16 Helsinki Roosters

Founded	1979
League Vaahteraliiga
Based in Helsinki, Finland
Stadium	Helsinki Velodrome


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Top 20 European Teams: 

#17 Koç Rams (Koç Üniversitesi Spor Külübü)

Founded	2004
League	TAFL Superlig
Based in	Istanbul,Turkey
Stadium	sport complex at KOÇ UNIVERSITY


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Top 20 European Teams: 

#18 Kragujevac Wild Boars

Founded	2003
League	SAAF Serbian Superleague
Based in	Kragujevac, Serbia
Stadium	?


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Top 20 European Teams: 

#19 London Warriors

Founded	2007
League	BAFA National Leagues
Based in	Thornton Heath
Stadium	Streatham-Croydon RFC


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

Top 20 European Teams: 

#20 Cougars de Saint-Ouen-l'Aumône

Founded	1989
League	Championnat de France de football américain
Based in	Saint-Ouen-l'Aumône in the suburbs of Paris
Stadium Escutary Stadium


----------



## Scba (Nov 20, 2004)

Is the top team not playing on a 100-yard field?


----------



## Avangard-55 (Mar 12, 2014)

And what is that for a ranking?

How are the ranked, by what criteria?




I think with the end of NFL-Europe, there is nor professional league outside North America anymore.
I would guess, that German Football League is the best outside NA now.


----------



## Blackhawk_ (Sep 22, 2016)

This year in Mexico two brand new pro leagues emerged.

The *LFA* (Liga de Futbol Americano) and the *LNF* ( Liga Nacional de Football Profesional)

The LFA has 6 teams: Mayas, Dinos, Fundidores, Eagles, Condors, and Raptors. Four teams are based in the Mexico City metro area and the others in Monterrey(Northern MX) and Saltillo (Northern MX).

The LNF also has 6 teams: Destructores, Forajidos, Broncos, Jefes, Montañeses and Industriales. All of them located in Northern Mexico, with the city of Monterrey as the league's headquarters.

The source of players is the ONEFA and CONADEIP college leagues.


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

> History Made: Professional US Football Debuts in China


Well, the Arena version of American football.

http://caflfootball.com/history-made-us-football-debuts-in-china/


----------



## cinquante (Sep 3, 2007)

Blackhawk_ said:


> This year in Mexico two brand new pro leagues emerged.
> 
> The *LFA* (Liga de Futbol Americano) and the *LNF* ( Liga Nacional de Football Profesional)
> 
> ...


American Football was way a bigger deal in the past in Mexico.
It is said that in a game between UNAM-IPN in 1972 in the Azteca Stadium. More than 110k witnessed the game.
















Here is the complete game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5r7Rn6IA0c

Not to mention, attendance in Clasicos (UNAM-IPN) and (ITESM-UANL) even today, is 20k at least.

There has been a lot of attempts to create a Pro League. But until this year, it is starting to look like Mexico will finally have a stable PRO League.
There are a lot of cities interested in having a franchise, and some will get games next season. Starting with Mexico City and Monterrey, it will be easier to expand to cities like Saltillo (already has team), Torreon, Queretaro, Puebla, Guadalajara, Toluca, León. 
And after that Cities like Tijuana or Chihuahua.


----------



## Snassni (Feb 28, 2011)

Morocco's first international match vs Neuchatel Knights





The first American Football Africa Cup was held in 2014 in Egypt. Only Morocco and Egypt played. Morocco won and qualified for the world cup. Unfortunately they didn't have enough money to travel to the tournament after the host was changed.


----------



## jts1882 (Jul 15, 2012)

Summarizing the top 20 listed on the previous page:


#1 Swarco Raids (Austria 1992)
#2 Schwäbisch Hall Unicorns (Germany 1983)
#3 New Yorker Lions (Germany 1987)
#4 Dresden Monarchs (Germany 1992)
#5 Frankfurt Universe (Germany 2007)
#6 Kiel Baltic Hurricanes (Germany 1988)
#7 Graz Giant (Austria 1981)
#8 Amsterdam Crusaders (Netherlands 1984)
#9 Berlin Rebels (Germany 1987)
#10 Vikings Vienna (Austria 1983)
#11 Rhinos Milano (Italy 1977)
#12 Saarland Hurricanes (Germany 1982)
#13 Panthers Wrocław (Poland 2013)
#14 Allgäu Comets (Germany 1982)
#15 Carlstad Crusaders (Sweden 1991)
#16 Helsinki Roosters (Finland 1979)
#17 Koç Rams (Koç Üniversitesi Spor Külübü) (Turkey 2014)
#18 Kragujevac Wild Boars (Serbia 2003)
#19 London Warriors (UK 2007)
#20 Cougars de Saint-Ouen-l'Aumône (France 1989)

Eight German, three Austrian, one each Netherlands, Italy, Poland, Sweden, Finland, Turkey, Serbia, UK and France.

How many of the older teams are close to military bases (e.g. Germany, Italy)?

My suspicion is that this ranking sheds no light on where the NFL will look at an expansion franchise in Europe.


----------



## alexandru.mircea (May 18, 2011)

In my town there's a club called Molosses that has reached the national final of the French men's championship in 2014:






They lost 35-34 in what is considered a great final. 

Can't say I've been tempted to go and watch them, so far. Maybe if I had more free time I would.


----------



## EdooGdl (Aug 28, 2009)

Auténticos Tigres de la Universidad Autónoma de Nuevo León vs Borregos Salvajes del Tecnológico de Monterrey - Estadio Gaspar Mass 
(Nuevo Leon State Authentic Tigers vs Monterrey Tech Wild Rams - Gaspar Mass Stadium)










Pumas Dorados de la Universidad Nacionál Autónoma de México vs Águlias Blancas del Instituto Politécnico Nacional - Estadio Hidalgo

(National Autonomous University of Mexico Golden Cougars vs National Polytechnic Institute White Eagles - Hidalgo Stadium)


----------



## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

*Canada beats the USA for Gold in Harbin, China for the IFAF U19 Championship, 24-6*

Since the Championship began, the US has won twice and Canada has won twice. Not bad considering Canadians don't play 4 down US football. We play 3 down Canadian football. :colgate:


----------



## EdooGdl (Aug 28, 2009)

Expo Tampico, home field of Lagartos de Tampico (Tampico Aligators) a professional team located in Tampico, Tamaulipas in Mexico and currtent champions of North America Indoor Football. They play against USA pro teams.


----------



## EdooGdl (Aug 28, 2009)

I would like to see some college canadian football stadiums :cheers1:


----------



## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

EdooGdl said:


> I would like to see some college canadian football stadiums :cheers1:


American Football isn't played in Canada. 99.9% of football played in Canada is Canadian Football so it's not appropriate to post them in this thread. The only team I'm aware of that plays American football is Simon Fraser University in Vancouver and they've only been playing the US version for about 10 years.

American Football and Canadian Football used to be the exact same sport in the 1870s (Google McGill - Harvard series) but drifted apart to the point that Canadian and US teams stopped playing each other around 1900. University of Michigan's 2nd game ever was against the University of Toronto in 1879. The last game between the 2 schools was in 1880!


----------



## EdooGdl (Aug 28, 2009)

^^^^^^

Oh c'mon, is not a big deal, arena football is not "traditional football" and no one is complaining about show arena football pics. I just want to see some college and proffesional canadian football stadiums. :cheers:


----------



## Kerrybai (Apr 29, 2013)

I don't see any issue with posting both variants in this thread, or just rename it to gridiron or something.


----------



## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

I have no issue with it. I just didn't want to post things that the thread starter, _weava_, didn't intend the thread to be about. I pm'ed weava.


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

^^

I have no problem with a few Canadian posts, but I started the thread to show that American football is played outside the US since we always hear how the sport isn't played outside the US and has no future outside the US. So my idea was to showcase the sports growth in places like Asia, Latin America, and Europe.


----------



## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

weava said:


> ^^
> 
> I have no problem with a few Canadian posts, but I started the thread to show that American football is played outside the US since we always hear how the sport isn't played outside the US and has no future outside the US. So my idea was to showcase the sports growth in places like Asia, Latin America, and Europe.


That's what I thought. I'll start another thread as I feel it will take away from the intent of your thread and further confuse things regarding the 2 sports. Canadian Football doesn't belong under the heading American Football any more than American Football would belong under the heading Canadian Football. I'll start another thread.

Btw, I agree that American Football has made an impact internationally. Canadian Football, by contrast, is only found in Canada. I doubt anyone plays Canadian Football outside Canada.


----------



## CharlieP (Sep 12, 2002)

isaidso said:


> That's what I thought. I'll start another thread as I feel it will take away from the intent of your thread and further confuse things regarding the 2 sports. Canadian Football doesn't belong under the heading American Football any more than American Football would belong under the heading Canadian Football. I'll start another thread.
> 
> Btw, I agree that American Football has made an impact internationally. Canadian Football, by contrast, is only found in Canada. I doubt anyone plays Canadian Football outside Canada.


The CFL did try and expand into the USA in the 90s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Football_League_in_the_United_States


----------



## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

CharlieP said:


> The CFL did try and expand into the USA in the 90s.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Football_League_in_the_United_States


I forgot about that. I'd be shocked if there are still Canadian Football teams anywhere outside Canada today though. I doubt American Football teams in Europe, Asia, or latin America even know that Canadian Football is a sport despite playing a game that's a close cousin of it.

Btw, we still get Baltimore Stallions fans showing up at the Grey Cup.


----------



## EdooGdl (Aug 28, 2009)

isaidso said:


> I forgot about that. I'd be shocked if there are still Canadian Football teams anywhere outside Canada today though. I doubt American Football teams in Europe, Asia, or* latin America* even know that Canadian Football is a sport despite playing a game that's a close cousin of it.
> 
> Btw, we still get Baltimore Stallions fans showing up at the Grey Cup.


We american football fans in México know about CFL, in fact a few years a go, Ivan Zárate native from my hometown (Guadalajara), former player of UDLA Aztecs in Puebla, was the first mexican player in the CFL with Toronto Argonauts. 



















Now another mexican, Jair Viamontes, former player of UVM Wildcats, is looking for a chance in the CFL try-outs.


----------



## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Is the CFL on cable in Mexico?


----------



## miguelon (Oct 25, 2006)

isaidso said:


> Is the CFL on cable in Mexico?


Yes, on ESPN 8: " The Ochou"....

Not really, it is not on cable or on any provider that I know. Most mexican "premium packages" offer a wider selection of European Football, NFL, MLB and NBA, Tennis ATP or some racing and PPV events.

Some secondary cable channels now offer mexican College American Football and a selection of American College Football on ESPN 3.


----------



## CharlieP (Sep 12, 2002)

Twickenham Stadium, the home of English rugby football, looking good for tomorrow's Giants v Rams game:










From https://www.instagram.com/nfluk/


----------



## EdooGdl (Aug 28, 2009)

Estadio Hidalgo - Pachuca, México. October 21, 2016.


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

del


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)




----------



## EdooGdl (Aug 28, 2009)

....


----------



## EdooGdl (Aug 28, 2009)

....


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

NFL is playing 4 games in London next season.... that's too much IMO. Need to spread those games out, 2 in London and 1 or 2 in Germany is what I'd do. And give out some preseason games to Japan, China, and Brazil.


----------



## EdooGdl (Aug 28, 2009)

Mexico´s football national championship 2016


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

EdooGdl said:


> Mexico´s football national championship 2016


If the NFL creates a minor league (which is supposedly in the works), they should consider Monterrey.


----------



## Scba (Nov 20, 2004)

The UFL (when it existed) was considering a team there, but it was around the era when crime and unrest had spiked around there.


----------



## Double Duty (Aug 20, 2012)

Fujitsu Stadium in Kawasaki, Kanagawa Prefecture, Japan:


----------



## Double Duty (Aug 20, 2012)

Saitama Super Arena in Saitama, Saitama Prefecture, Japan:


----------



## Double Duty (Aug 20, 2012)

Yokohama Stadium in Naka Ward, Yokohama, Japan:


----------



## CharlieP (Sep 12, 2002)

weava said:


> NFL is playing 4 games in London next season.... that's too much IMO. Need to spread those games out, 2 in London and 1 or 2 in Germany is what I'd do. And give out some preseason games to Japan, China, and Brazil.


Presumably they're testing the water - if they can sustain 75-85,000 in London for four games, then they know a London franchise will have a good chance of getting 60,000 for eight games.


----------



## miguelon (Oct 25, 2006)

CharlieP said:


> Presumably they're testing the water - if they can sustain 75-85,000 in London for four games, then they know a London franchise will have a good chance of getting 60,000 for eight games.


I thing that as far as support, the water has been tested, and I'm pretty sure that London can support a team with an average attendance of +60,000 with lots of corporate boxes and suites that the NFL loves so much.

Probably now, the NFL is testing if its worth it. And if the following points can be "solved"
1.- TV deals (early morning kickoff for the US)
2.- Travel logistics
3.- UK taxes
4.- Long term stadium deal.


----------



## Andy-i (Nov 25, 2009)

miguelon said:


> I thing that as far as support, the water has been tested, and I'm pretty sure that London can support a team with an average attendance of +60,000 with lots of corporate boxes and suites that the NFL loves so much.
> 
> Probably now, the NFL is testing if its worth it. And if the following points can be "solved"
> 1.- TV deals (early morning kickoff for the US)
> ...


4: NEW WHITE HART LANE??


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

You'd think so.


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

ElvisBC said:


> panthers are for sale, who knows, maybe london franchise issue will be solved faster than we all thought.
> 
> it would suck, but NFL is full of bad ideas! they can't even define what the catch is :colgate:


The Panthers are not a likely candidate. They are successful where they are and the NFL does not move successful franchises.


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> There's an additional difficulty with the Jaguars as Khan is not keen for Tottenham's new stadium to be the base for any London franchise. This is because he owns another London club, Fulham FC, and although they're currently a division below Tottenham, he doesn't want to do anything that will help boost a rival. He's said many times he'd want Wembley as the base. It may be that the NFL doesn't care about this opinion though. We saw with Twickenham, where the stadium owners had to dismantle a bar to create the away-team's locker room and then rebuilt it again afterwards that compromises are being made for NFL in stadiums not designed to accommodate it from the outset. By pressing ahead with a partnership in Tottenham, things will be different.


No doubt the wheel is still in spin, but, to quote Khan again, the team moving to London is going to be the most valuable one in the NFL. That means 5B plus or a 3B gain for him by moving to whatever stadium the NFL says. By contrast, Fulham is valued around 1/10 of that. He could give it away and still be billions to the better.

A salient factor could be the terms of the London stadium agreements. The NFL never breaks lease contracts nor allows its franchises to do so.


----------



## nicko_viteh (Feb 13, 2010)

Last Saturday, Argentina and Brazil national teams played on Mineirão Stadium, in the first game ever between the nations. The result was Brazil 38-0 Argentina.

Article, with pictures and highlights.


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

nicko_viteh said:


> Last Saturday, Argentina and Brazil national teams played on Mineirão Stadium, in the first game ever between the nations. The result was Brazil 38-0 Argentina.
> 
> Article, with pictures and highlights.


Interesting. The inclement weather (as there was with several US college and pro games the last weeks) demonstrated again that football is intended to be played in whatever weather there happens to be. The team prepared for variations in weather will be more likely to win.


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...ame-featuring-winning-teams-in-2018-matchups/

Some solid teams in London next year with Tottenham and Wembley Stadiums being used. 

I was unaware of the tie between Nashville and London based on music that Amy Adams talks about. Maybe Grand Ole Opry and Covent Garden could trade places for a week this summer?


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

nicko_viteh said:


> Last Saturday, Argentina and Brazil national teams played on Mineirão Stadium, in the first game ever between the nations. The result was Brazil 38-0 Argentina.
> 
> Article, with pictures and highlights.


I spent the last month in Brazil and actually watched part of that game on TV as well as the Brazilian league championship the week before on TV. The quality was very bad but I got the feeling that American football is quickly gaining fan support in the country but it still a long ways behind the NBA's popularity there. Hopefully they can set up more youth leagues and such in the coming years to build up their quality.

In the sports stores, the inventory was something like 50% soccer balls, 24% basketballs, 24% volleyballs, and 2% american footballs (but I actually saw them for sale at a few stores which surprised me)


----------



## EdooGdl (Aug 28, 2009)

Credits to Imtonybitch



Imtonybitch said:


> *Monterrey, Nuevo León,
> 
> Tec de Monterrey, Campus Monterrey.
> 
> ...


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

NFL field at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium (hosting Raiders v Seahawks in October) starting to look NFL-y today....
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=149508211&postcount=66826


----------



## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

RobH said:


> NFL field at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium (hosting Raiders v Seahawks in October) starting to look NFL-y today....
> https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=149508211&postcount=66826




Are you ready for some (American) Football?!


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

aquamaroon said:


> Are you ready for some (American) Football?!


Sounds like a good match-up!

London gets 3 chances to see real football this year. Maybe a lot more in a few years.


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

RobH said:


> NFL field at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium (hosting Raiders v Seahawks in October) starting to look NFL-y today....
> https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=149508211&postcount=66826


looks like a far better football venue than Wembley.


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

A team in Florence, Italy made news today by hiring the former Baylor Bears head coach.

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/mac-engel/article215966180.html

Their stadium: Guelfi Sport Center


----------



## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

duplicate post


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...-no-question-a-team-could-be-successful-here/

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...-london-with-the-possibility-of-its-own-team/

Two riffs on Goodell’s comments about London being a sure winner for an NFL team.

Florio’s is the strangest since he raises trivial questions (taxes, exchange rates) as being unmanageable. You sort of wonder how large US companies can have 10k employees from 20 countries in India but the NFL can’t get 50 or so into London as non-residents. This is what financial people do every day.

Some other issues actually require some thought; but that hardly makes them insurmountable. The idea of weeks off before or after, playing 3 games at a stretch in the US, etc., are not new. In fact, it would be most common to play teams in the Eastern time zone which is 5 hours difference as compared to 3 hours to the west coast (which has 5 teams). And any team moving to London would be more than compensated for the inconvenience by having its value double overnight (per Khan, Kraft and other owners).


----------



## Nacre (May 9, 2016)

The issue of taxes and exchange rates is in fact a problem for Canadian teams in joint American-Canadian leagues. It isn't insurmountable, but it is a very real problem.


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Maybe this lot got confused by the exchange rates?

*Jacksonville Jaguars: Four players arrested at London nightclub for 'unpaid bar bill'*


----------



## jts1882 (Jul 15, 2012)

A £50,000 bar bill the night before a 1pm game?


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Nacre said:


> The issue of taxes and exchange rates is in fact a problem for Canadian teams in joint American-Canadian leagues. It isn't insurmountable, but it is a very real problem.


Not to be disagreeable but it is not a problem in the sense that you just address it and it goes away. The same way as having a source for grass or footballs: you need them and so you get someone to supply them. 

"Tax equalization" calculations can be done by 1000 firms in any large Canadian or US city. What you are hearing is whining and b/s'ing by people who don't know what they are talking about or were expecting a killing from salary "gross-ups" and didn't get one.


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> Maybe this lot got confused by the exchange rates?
> 
> *Jacksonville Jaguars: Four players arrested at London nightclub for 'unpaid bar bill'*


Anyone who has dealt with bars in SoHo knows what this is about. After you go in, the clubs invent L 1000 "entry fees"; L 2000 prices for a bottle of champagne they bought for L 10, etc. This is behavior that "clubs" in London are famous for. The question is why the players weren't warned.


----------



## Nacre (May 9, 2016)

pesto said:


> Not to be disagreeable but it is not a problem in the sense that you just address it and it goes away. The same way as having a source for grass or footballs: you need them and so you get someone to supply them.
> 
> "Tax equalization" calculations can be done by 1000 firms in any large Canadian or US city. What you are hearing is whining and b/s'ing by people who don't know what they are talking about or were expecting a killing from salary "gross-ups" and didn't get one.


The problem comes from things like Canadian NHL teams having expenses (such as player wages) in USD and local revenue in CAD. If the value of the CAD drops relative to the USD the team can instantly go from making a profit to running at a loss. That is combined with higher Canadian taxes on things like fuel and airport fees, which hurts sports teams chartering flights out of Canada.

Other business can mitigate risks by doing things like paying wages in the local currency. But the NHL cannot use most of those strategies. And it's worth noting that in most (all?) of the recent times Canadian NHL owners have financed their own arenas they have gone bankrupt.

I think this is one of the reasons the NFL has no interest in expanding to Mexico City despite the fact that Mexico makes much more sense than London in all three of the main issues: time zone, travel and existing fanbase. No owner wants to have their revenue in Mexican pesos and their expenses in US dollars.


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> ..
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/2019/september/nfl-stadium-tours-now-on-sale/


Interesting. First of all, I love English English. You would never see “bespoke”, “purpose-built” or “in due course” in an American sports press release. Even “commence” is doubtful when “start” or “begin” are already available. In fact, even if the writer used those phrases in the first draft they would be edited out. :lol:

I wouldn’t have thought that the differences are all that great. Are they mostly details or are there really major structural or operational differences as compared to soccer, rugby or general purpose stadiums?


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

pesto said:


> Interesting. First of all, I love English English. You would never see “bespoke”, “purpose-built” or “in due course” in an American sports press release. Even “commence” is doubtful when “start” or “begin” are already available. In fact, even if the writer used those phrases in the first draft they would be edited out. :lol:
> 
> I wouldn’t have thought that the differences are all that great. Are they mostly details or are there really major structural or operational differences as compared to soccer, rugby or general purpose stadiums?


The point here is that all the soccer stuff is in the West stand, all the NFL stuff in the East stand.

NFL won't be touching the soccer facilities and visa versa (this even includes separate tunnels), so the behind-the-scenes NFL tour will be showing completely different parts of the stadium to the regular soccer stadium tour.

WEST STAND (for soccer)










EAST STAND (for NFL)










You might like this blog btw:
https://notoneoffbritishisms.com/2011/02/13/bespoke/
https://notoneoffbritishisms.com/2013/12/05/purpose-built/


----------



## tinyslam (Mar 11, 2013)

Where is the NFL Away Locker Room?


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Good point. It's not on either drawing actually. Separated off a bit, it's actually closer to the soccer facilities. It's in the NW corner, inc its own tunnel.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Thanks. I figured that there are a lot more players on an Am. football team and they tend to be much larger people, and that that could be an issue. I guess it was enough of an issue to make completely separate facilities easier. 

In any event, when you are building from scratch ("bespoke") you might as well get as near to ideal NFL standards as possible.


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

*First NFL game at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium on Sunday
Chicago Bears @ Oakland Raiders*

Pitch retraction and field prep:





A couple of stadium prep photos (more in the stadium thread):


----------



## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

EdooGdl said:


> Borregos vs UBC Thunderbirds


That is so bizarre watching UBC playing US rules football. :sly:



carnifex2005 said:


> Had no idea that Monterrey played my local university, the Thunderbirds. Usually they play only Canadian rules, so I'm guessing it took awhile for them to get used to playing under American rules. Still a nice victory for Monterrey.


Considering American players take 3-4 months of intensive training to make the switch to Canadian football I'm surprised UBC even attempted it (but in the opposite direction). There are transferable skills but you pretty much have to start over from the beginning. Some star players never manage to make the transition at all.

Speaking of which, it's very impressive that UBC only lost 24-17. They probably only had a few weeks to re-learn everything. Maybe they only had a few days? UBC should invite Monterrey to Vancouver for a re-match but this time playing Canadian football. And why are the Thunderbirds in black and white?


This is what UBC wear for Canadian football









_Courtesy of The Province_​


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

*Oakland Raiders 24-21 Chicago Bears
Tottenham Hotspur Stadium Att. 60,463*

Photos









https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=162991180&postcount=88000









https://twitter.com/PaulSwampyMarsh









https://twitter.com/spursnewsonly

Light show


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180915224393715717https://twitter.com/NFLGirlUK/status/1180915224393715717

Raiders post-game locker room


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180954829360914432https://twitter.com/NFLUK/status/1180954829360914432

Highlights


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

The team with the longer flight and two more time zones to cross won, which is a positive for the NFL. Plus it seems to validate Chucky's concerns about getting to London early to minimized jet-lag (or perhaps undercut his argument that west coast teams and normally disadvantaged).


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## Bobby3 (Jun 26, 2007)

Do Sarries use Spurs' stuff or the NFL home stuff?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...o-london-on-permanent-basis-amid-la-failures/

Spanos barely has had time to try LA and he wants out. Is this the final step in his ploy to get SD to pay for a stadium?

Or is the London queue starting to form? Is that Shad Khan I see running this way? "Please have one person hold space for your entire group and respect the safety of others". :lol:


----------



## Double Duty (Aug 20, 2012)

You can now watch Japan's X-League games on YouTube:

X-League

Plus, pics of American football stadiums in Mexico:

Estadio José Ortega Martínez, Naucalpan de Juárez, Estado de México (via Maximo Advance):









Estadio Gaspar Mass, Monterrey, Nuevo León (via Universidad Autónoma de Nuevo León):

















Estadio Borregos, Monterrey, Nuevo León (via INMOBILIARE):


----------



## Double Duty (Aug 20, 2012)

More pics of Estadio Borregos, Monterrey, Nuevo León (via Borregos Monterrey):


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## Double Duty (Aug 20, 2012)

Check out the live webcam of the construction of Simon Fraser University's new stadium here: SFU Stadium

Renderings of SFU Stadium (via Simon Fraser University):


----------



## Double Duty (Aug 20, 2012)

The Bahamas Bowl at Thomas Robinson Stadium in Nassau, Bahamas (image via NSA Bahamas):


----------



## cmc (Oct 4, 2005)




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## EdooGdl (Aug 28, 2009)

some pictures from 2019 mexican college football season


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## Double Duty (Aug 20, 2012)

Expo Flash Field in Osaka, Japan:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

From Goodell's State of the NFL speech:

- Toronto is a great city for an NFL team; the local stadium requires upgrading
- Mexico City will continue to get yearly game for the next 2 years
- there is no timeline for London getting a team but two stadiums simplifies logistics tremendously

Some read the London comments as good news for J'vill or others whose teams are looking to relocated there. It is true that they were vague and showed no urgency. 

But I read this as part of the campaign to keep the focus on SoFi and LV, where there are three relocated teams in 2 new stadiums, lots of NFL offices and a gateway to the Asian market.

Assuming continued progress I would expect London (and Toronto and Mexico City) to become more visible again after the LA Super Bowl in 2 years.


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## mague (Dec 19, 2016)

Artilleros (LFA), Estadio BUAP 20000, Puebla, Mexico


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## GreenHornet553 (Jan 6, 2013)

It's cool to see our neighbors south of the border getting into tossing the pigskin around. Although I have to wonder if the sight lines are an issue at all, considering teams may have to play on a field with an athletics track?


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## Calvin W (Nov 5, 2005)

GreenHornet553 said:


> It's cool to see our neighbors south of the border getting into tossing the pigskin around. Although I have to wonder if the sight lines are an issue at all, considering teams may have to play on a field with an athletics track?


Don't think it's a big deal mate. Not too far back in US history teams were playing in much worse stadiums....


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

British dream of path to draft but the road is long


The National Football League holds its annual draft on Thursday and while the lockdown version means it will be online rather than the planned glitzy show in Las Vegas, there will be plenty of fans outside of the United States following along.




www.reuters.com





Interest in the NFL in the UK is growing (or so they say).

The Jaguars committing to two games in consecutive weeks in London conforms with the NFL’s published plan for moving a team there permanently. My guess is that Corona will push that back a year or two since you want LA and LV to get plenty of airtime worldwide and don’t want another story detracting from that.


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## Quintana (Dec 27, 2005)

I still remember we had this NFL Europe in the 90's. It was moderately popular in Germany but the rest of Europe wasn't interested. I think it started out with teams from London, Edinburg, Barcelona, Amsterdam, Düsseldorf and Frankfurt but by the time it folded there were just German teams plus Amsterdam.

I just looked it up and apparently it folded only in 2007.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Yes, but that was in effect a "minor league" with low caliber players who could not make the NFL teams. That's being avoided on this go-round with London (and then Germany?) getting full-fledged NFL teams.

Of course, could fail again.


----------



## Urmstoniain (Mar 23, 2015)

Just happened upon this, and thought folk on here might appreciate it...









Reuters Archive Licensing


Search and license clips from Reuters vast archive of news video footage, dating back to 1896



reuters.screenocean.com


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Some photos of some of the NFL areas I hadn't seen at Spurs stadium from the architect's website...








NFL | F3 Architects LLP


F3 worked closely with the NFL to design and deliver their hospitality and player facilities within the new Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. The dedicated player areas include a super-sized 515 sqm home…




www.f3architects.com


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## mwm991 (Aug 25, 2015)

The problem with developing players is that guys are effectively going from playing in public parks straight into NFL training camps. NFL Europe would be/was a good middle ground, and I think was probably before its time given we now have streaming and social media. Even if running at a loss something like that would serve a purpose in terms of growing the talent pool which is clearly saturated in the States.

One thing I have noticed the last five years or so though is there is a small but growing number of players from outside the US now playing college football, which can only help the talent pool.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

mwm991 said:


> The problem with developing players is that guys are effectively going from playing in public parks straight into NFL training camps. NFL Europe would be/was a good middle ground, and I think was probably before its time given we now have streaming and social media. Even if running at a loss something like that would serve a purpose in terms of growing the talent pool which is clearly saturated in the States.
> 
> One thing I have noticed the last five years or so though is there is a small but growing number of players from outside the US now playing college football, which can only help the talent pool.


It's nice to get players from all over the world but the NFL is 70 percent black. That makes player recruiting in Europe a relatively low priority as compared to developing revenue sources among upper middle-class northern Europeans and in countries where London still has cultural cachet.


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## EdooGdl (Aug 28, 2009)

Some Pro American Football Stadiums in Mexico (LFA and FAM)
All credits to their respective authors.


Caudillos - Chihuahua









Artilleros - Puebla









Condors - CDMX









Dinos - Saltillo









Raptors - State of Mexico









Tequileros - Guadalajara









Fundidores - Monterrey









Future Stadiums

Pioneros - Querétaro









Tiburones - Cancún


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## Double Duty (Aug 20, 2012)

Some great footage of the inaugural season of the WLAF's London Monarchs:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com





With player and media deals set, the NFL will focus on the international market. They are now committed to at least 4 games outside the US every year. Assuming 2 continue in London, and 1 in Mexico, the other likely choices are Germany and Canada. Meetings have been held with Berlin and Munich about hosting.

It's thought that the multiple owners who also own non-US teams will be quick to take advantage of their international experience and existing relationships.


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

while I understand the reasons, international NFL games are awful and simply wrong.

but ok, world cup in qatar is insane and world cup in the us is wrong as well and they are still doing it ....


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

ElvisBC said:


> while I understand the reasons, international NFL games are awful and simply wrong.
> 
> but ok, world cup in qatar is insane and world cup in the us is wrong as well and they are still doing it ....


Why? The NFL is the whole of American football. It’s not as if there are local professional leagues to consider. 

The NFL’s European audience is small but dedicated, and they want the real thing. No one is going to watch the London Dingos and the Manchester Drongos but they will lap up a meaningful NFL match.

It’d be nice if Australia was mentioned in the conversation now and then.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

As usual, small population and remoteness are the problems with Australia. Canada has more people and the cities are near the US border. 

Informally, it is believed there will be more than 4 non-US games in the near future since they have proven to be very effective at driving fan interest outside the US. Several sites in Germany were interested but Berlin and Munich provided the best brands and visuals (get your lederhosen and alpenhorns ready.).


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

Ramanaramana said:


> Why? The NFL is the whole of American football. It’s not as if there are local professional leagues to consider.
> 
> The NFL’s European audience is small but dedicated, and they want the real thing. No one is going to watch the London Dingos and the Manchester Drongos but they will lap up a meaningful NFL match.
> 
> It’d be nice if Australia was mentioned in the conversation now and then.


you misunderstood this one, NFL belongs in the USA and nowhere else


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

ElvisBC said:


> you misunderstood this one, NFL belongs in the USA and nowhere else


Not even Toronto? Hamilton? Maybe St. Catherine's? At least give me Tijuana.
.


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

nope, those are countries of ice hockey and football


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

ElvisBC said:


> nope, those are countries of ice hockey and football


You seem to be getting pretty dogmatic. But, hey, what else is new?

In fact, Canada has its own league of Canadian football, which is similar to US football. Players not quite good enough for the NFL often start there and eventually star in the NFL, including some of the all-time greats.

LIkewise, there's no doubt soccer dominates Mexico, but there is a Mexican league of American football and also college leagues.


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

pesto, I simply love it when you try to explain world of sports to me 😁


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

Germany is the most obvious next country to get a regular season game. Came across this interest tweet regarding German viewership of the NFL:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1379092451986612224
(article link in the tweet) So according to this, the TV ratings in Germany for the NFL are better than American ratings for the NHL, one of our Big 4 sports. That's pretty incredible given that 1.) Germany has a smaller population than the USA and 2.) Games are staged at odd times for Europe. It's hard to see an NFL franchise in Germany, that may be a bridge too far at the moment, but a regular season game there seems like a pretty obvious next step.


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

pesto said:


> As usual, small population and remoteness are the problems with Australia. Canada has more people and the cities are near the US border.


I think the situation is different enough to make sense. Canada is in the American timezone and can watch any match easily, including matches kicking off at 8pm when most people are able to watch. Australia is wealthy, English speaking, has the stadiums, would sell out, and whose timezone aligns with Asia, meaning primetime matches in the most populous region on the planet.

Most NFL matches in Asia kick off between 3am and 12pm on Mondays, when most people arent able to watch. One matcch in Sydney is tenable, and I would be shocked if NFL hadnt considered it. It doesn’t have to become a regular thing, just a one off. We had a college match here from two American colleges get 60,000 a while back.

Annoyingly, because of college and high school AF taking up Friday and Saturday, it means Asia doesn’t get any matches on the weekend, instead we put up with mornings on Friday, Monday and Tuesday, which makes things difficult for fans.


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

ElvisBC said:


> you misunderstood this one, NFL belongs in the USA and nowhere else


So football only belongs in England then?


pesto said:


> LIkewise, there's no doubt soccer dominates Mexico, but there is a Mexican league of American football and also college leagues.


The NFL is the second biggest team sport in Mexico. It’s bigger in Mexico than rugby league is in England. I’m not sure what Elvis would have to say about that.




aquamaroon said:


> Germany is the most obvious next country to get a regular season game. Came across this interest tweet regarding German viewership of the NFL:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1379092451986612224
> (article link in the tweet) So according to this, the TV ratings in Germany for the NFL are better than American ratings for the NHL, one of our Big 4 sports. That's pretty incredible given that 1.) Germany has a smaller population than the USA and 2.) Games are staged at odd times for Europe. It's hard to see an NFL franchise in Germany, that may be a bridge too far at the moment, but a regular season game there seems like a pretty obvious next step.


In Australia the AFL and NRL average over 500,000 each on tv, with many matches over 1 million. Smaller population tends to boost TV ratings relative to country size. I still think hockey is bigger in America than NFL in Germany.

Germany has an appetite for NFL, and that extends to all American sports bar baseball. Hockey and basketball are popular in Germany, so I think we’ll see all three leagues play regular season matches there regularly.


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

Ramanaramana said:


> So football only belongs in England then?


of course not, but premiere league does



Ramanaramana said:


> The NFL is the second biggest team sport in Mexico. It’s bigger in Mexico than rugby league is in England. I’m not sure what Elvis would have to say about that.


great, still doesn‘t mean teams should sacrifice one of very few home games they have and go play there


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

ElvisBC said:


> of course not, but premiere league does
> 
> 
> great, still doesn‘t mean teams should sacrifice one of very few home games they have and go play there


In football with balanced home and away fixtures and no playoffs, moving games around puts the integrity of the league into question. American leagues have unbalanced fixtures and playoffs, so it's not as big a deal I reckon. You're talking about a country where one bloke can decide to move his team to another city if he wants. Moving a game internationally pales in comparison. 

Also how else do you grow AF outside North America? The bottom up approach that football and basketball use so well doesn't work as it's not a simple game to play requiring few resources. If the sport is to grow its audience, it has to use the top down approach, which has been successful for AF in Europe.

And NFL is increasing amount of games it plays to 17 from 16, so the international games are now not even taking away from the local fans.


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

ever heard of Wimbledon F.C.?😁

kidding aside, I am fully aware why they‘re doing what they do but I do not have to like it or approve it, do I?



EDIT: I never said some sport doesn‘t belong somewhere, I am happy if someone is curling in Kongo, bit I just can‘t approve moving competitive games out of place where they are supposed to be, especially not if there are just a few of them as in NFL! For me, that is almost as bad as World Cup in Qatar!


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Holding matches in multiple countries sounds very natural as borders become less relevant for commerce and entertainment. When a sport has only 1 "major" league, as with Am. football, there is little choice in the expansion process but to have "official" games outside the home country. 

Soccer generally has single nation "major" leagues, each jealous of protecting its franchise. The various cross-border leagues or tournaments solve the issues of cross-border matches adequately, since they limit the ability of any national league from getting a foothold abroad. 

But with Asia and NA being largely untapped, there is a need to play local matches or risk losing out on enormous markets. EPL may stay home, but that just means good news for Germany, Spain, France, etc. I would think EPL will join the scramble or change the way they share revenues to allow the big players to exploit it independently.


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

ElvisBC said:


> ever heard of Wimbledon F.C.?😁
> 
> kidding aside, I am fully aware why they‘re doing what they do but I do not have to like it or approve it, do I?
> 
> ...


Obviously I disagree, but as you say you don’t have to like what they are doing. I think for smaller sports like AF they need to be bolder by doing what they’re doing, otherwise growth outside North America will be slow. And Qatar will be amazing, you know it.


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

amazing? no, that‘s impossible.
there is simply too much bitterness and bad karma around it and true football fan will never accept it! though, it might get better than expected and fans will hopefully have fun there, but amazing? in no universe!


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.nfl.com/videos/commissioner-roger-goodell-details-potential-international-expansion-for--274170



Goodell says that London is 100 percent ready for an NLF team. The League has no issues about fans, sponsors, stadiums, or government support. The don’t even have logistic problems for teams going over to play there or for the London team coming to the US.

The only remaining issue is how to make the playoffs fair for both the London team and the other playoff teams. That is still being worked on.

Super Bowls will not be going offshore until a team is established in the host city. 

Of course, this may just be PR to keep the UK fans excited, and that many issues remain.


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

If Shahid Khan had convinced the FA to sell Wembley, there might already be a timeframe for relocation. 

Going thru the teams, the only one that looks cast iron to move is Jacksonville. 

Without operating the venue they play in, does that lessen the chance of a move? I don't think it should.

Ticket revenue would beat anything in Jacksonville easy, even with rent accounted for. Commercially it would do better I think as you're opening up a whole new region, and not just the 60 million British market but further abroad in continental Europe. Broadcasting would improve with a local rooting interest. The net gain should offset the impact of not owning a venue. 

And yet Khan still tried to buy Wembley, so maybe it is that important to own. 

Unless the losses sustained from no crowds have changed the FA's stance, I don't see a way for Khan to own a venue in London. No one is going to build him a stadium. 

My prediction is that Khan will try to buy Wembley again, knowing that an offer this time might be more persuasive. 

Or he could play off Wembley and Spurs against each other to extract the best deals for his team and the NFL can agree to relocate without venue ownership.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Ramanaramana said:


> If Shahid Khan had convinced the FA to sell Wembley, there might already be a timeframe for relocation.
> 
> Going thru the teams, the only one that looks cast iron to move is Jacksonville.
> 
> ...


Yes. And London has cultural influence in the former Asian and African colonies as well as in Europe. Khan has openly talked about merchandising and streaming in South Asia and that it would quickly make the London team the most valuable in the NFL.

The NFL has a history both Wembley and the Spurs (they were involved in the design from the beginning) so they certainly have flexibility. Buying Wembley seems risky politically unless Khan can really talk it up as a soccer stadium that also hosts football.

J'ville is certainly the favorite.; Another possibility is the Chargers, who are having economic and ownership struggles. If Bezos or Ballmer buy them, it would certainly be a team with a lot of potential for attracting attention. But with either of those owners the NFL might prefer to keep them in LA.

I won't bring up others that might move since that annoys their fans.


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

The London Jaguars, London Chargers, London Bills, London Bengals. Struggling to think of any other possibility. Surely there isn't another team you think should be on that list.

The London Jaguars sounds by far the best.

Buying Wembley would be best solution, but as you say not easy as the people in charge of FA don't have final say on it and need support from constituents. Those at the top who tried to push a deal through last time are no longer there. The longer no crowds goes on the better chance Khan has I think, but it's harder than your average ownership exchange because of how many parties Khan has to appease. 

What Khan has done a good job of is showing that he's committed to both sports by renovating and expanding Fulham's ground, proving there's no chance of Fulham leaving CC. One of the rumours the British media were spreading was that he planned on relocating Fulham to Wembley, which in my mind was never true, but a way to paint him as some bloke coming in to ruin English football. And it worked as general opinion of him seemed negative. 

I wonder if some sort of joint ownership could be agreed. Maybe even build a second pitch beneath like at Spurs. Seems like all the rage now with Real Madrid doing the same.

Whatever happens, I hope the stadium situation doesn't prevent the Jaguars from moving to London.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

I wouldn't think so; there's always New White Hart Lane if Wembley can't be worked out.. 

The NFL has said that every team will have to host at least one game abroad every 8 years; that implies about 4 games every year. But J’ville wants to host at least 1 game per year at Wembley. Altogether that implies 5 or so matches. Maybe 1 each at Wembley and Tottenham, one in Mexico and one in Germany? That leaves one for Asia or maybe another in Germany..

I believe that between COVID and remaining issues, the NFL is going to focus less on moving a team right away and more on building the streaming market and related media around the world. By then it may be clear if Berlin or Munich could support teams. Add one more in Europe and you could cut the number of trips to the US. But this is speculation, of course.


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

london monarchs sucked big time, and so will any NFL team based outside US. insane idea made by greedy idiots, nothing else! "billions are not enough" ..... FIFA sends best regards to NFL!!!


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

ElvisBC said:


> london monarchs sucked big time, and so will any NFL team based outside US. insane idea made by greedy idiots, nothing else! "billions are not enough" ..... FIFA sends best regards to NFL!!!


Generally, NFL and soccer are not direct competitors. The NFL aims at a better educated business or professional crowd and non-UK residents (Geramanic, Scandinavian and E. European). 

The NFL owners who also own soccer clubs in the UK are strongly supportive of the move. They do not view it as a threat to their soccer interests to a meaningful degree.


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

ElvisBC said:


> london monarchs sucked big time, and so will any NFL team based outside US. insane idea made by greedy idiots, nothing else! "billions are not enough" ..... FIFA sends best regards to NFL!!!


Perhaps this discussion simply isn’t for you. 

It’s not that insane. Comparing the London Monarchs to an NFL team is unfair. As we’ve seen with the London games, when you have the real thing the interest is there.

My idea of how it would work best is to base the players in Jacksonville. Have their families live there, and simply travel to London to play home matches. It would make things so much easier on everyone involved, especially cos most of the team will be American, at least for a good while yet. 



pesto said:


> I wouldn't think so; there's always New White Hart Lane if Wembley can't be worked out..
> 
> The NFL has said that every team will have to host at least one game abroad every 8 years; that implies about 4 games every year. But J’ville wants to host at least 1 game per year at Wembley. Altogether that implies 5 or so matches. Maybe 1 each at Wembley and Tottenham, one in Mexico and one in Germany? That leaves one for Asia or maybe another in Germany..
> 
> I believe that between COVID and remaining issues, the NFL is going to focus less on moving a team right away and more on building the streaming market and related media around the world. By then it may be clear if Berlin or Munich could support teams. Add one more in Europe and you could cut the number of trips to the US. But this is speculation, of course.


The idea I mentioned above to Elvis in basing teams in the US would solve many of the biggest problems facing a relocation overnight. The good thing about the NFL is that it’s not MLB. The short season and few matches makes these potentially difficult problems much easier to solve. I still reckon for the Americans playing for that team, and their families, being based in the US makes most sense in the short term. 

If London can host a team, Germany certainly can. NFL is more popular in Germany than England right now, and by a decent margin from what Ive researched. Germany has a far more American sports culture than the rest of Europe, with hockey, basketball and AF all popular sports.

The hotbeds are southern Germany, stretching into Austria, So Bavaria (Munich) and Baden-W (Stuttgart), with northern outliers like Hamburg and Berlin in the mix. The NFL is about twice as popular in these regions than in the rest of the country.

As in England though, same stadium issues with having to rent from football. It will all depend on whether the NFL is ok with such solutions.

One opportunity could be to get involved right now with Hertha Berlin, who are looking to build a 55,000 stadium near the Olympic stadium in Berlin. A partnership there with Hertha like at Spurs could solve the stadium issue. Munich and Hamburg will be tougher because no new stadiums are on the horizon and those clubs are not likely to want to ground share outside of one-off games here and there.


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

pesto said:


> The NFL owners who also own soccer clubs in the UK are strongly supportive of the move. They do not view it as a threat to their soccer interests to a meaningful degree.


pesto, you‘re genius sometimes 😁 it is nothing but spectacular to think even for a second that american football could affect footy in the UK 😁😁 ... that was so great, made my day, definitely your best post ever!!!
what a day .... finally got my jab in the morning and now this ... can‘t get any better


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Ramanaramana said:


> Perhaps this discussion simply isn’t for you.
> 
> It’s not that insane. Comparing the London Monarchs to an NFL team is unfair. As we’ve seen with the London games, when you have the real thing the interest is there.
> 
> ...


The last I heard, the London team would make 3 road trips to the US every year and stay for 2-3 weeks at at a dedicated training and housing facility (probably in the Virginia area which is central to NY, Philly, Balt, DC, Atlanta, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, etc.). Families would relocate or not at their choice.

Berlin is favored for matches since it is the capital and very photogenic. It is also near Poland, which is another hotbed of interest. Munich covers Austria and Switzerland and the southern Slavs. Friends of mine in Frankfurt want a game there based on the large number of financial and government offices, but I'm not sure if Hesse has sufficient people or the notoriety of Berlin and Munich.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

ElvisBC said:


> pesto, you‘re genius sometimes 😁 it is nothing but spectacular to think even for a second that american football could affect footy in the UK 😁😁 ... that was so great, made my day, definitely your best post ever!!!
> what a day .... finally got my jab in the morning and now this ... can‘t get any better


So, you know that football is no threat to soccer but you still don't want it in England anyway, either as the Monarchs or as US teams visiting? 

Why do you care? It's as if you're Catholic and you object to Mosques; or you love fish and chips and object to Korean tacos. Just ignore them and let others worry about them.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

NFL picks 3 German cities to bid for regular-season game


LONDON (AP) — The NFL selected the cities Düsseldorf, Frankfurt and Munich on Tuesday to enter a final bidding stage to host a regular-season game in Germany. Next season is the target for Germany to host its first game, though it could also debut in 2023 because of potential scheduling...




apnews.com





NFL narrows cities for 2022 or 2023 games to Munich, Frankfurt and Dusseldorf. I guess Berlin is already tried and true at this point.

They also note that Scandinavia, France and Spain are candidates for future games.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

NFL announces international market partnerships: Rams in China, Buccaneers in Germany, Dolphins in Spain

NFL “awards” various countries for teams to focus on developing, with several teams getting Mexico.(apparently somebody believes there is treasure in the Sierra Madre).

And ATT Stadium (Arlington) has announced a deal with the Mexican national team to play some matches there for 4 years.


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## coys500 (May 16, 2017)

I find this so weird. Why can’t an NFL team just market themselves wherever they like ? What exactly is the issue with that ?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

coys500 said:


> I find this so weird. Why can’t an NFL team just market themselves wherever they like ? What exactly is the issue with that ?


More or less the same reason they don't do it in the US. It would be a horrible waste of money and defeat the point of being a cartel, which is divided markets with no competition and therefore the ability to set your own price.

Some teams have already planned and structured their marketing toward foreign markets for years (e.g., the Rams in E. Asia and LatAm) and don't want others to come in and take advantage of their work..


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## coys500 (May 16, 2017)

Seems quite ironic in what is supposed to be the biggest free market country in the world. Sounds like something N Korea would have in place. Imagine telling Manchester United you can only market yourself in Mexico. Sounds ludicrous.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

coys500 said:


> Seems quite ironic in what is supposed to be the biggest free market country in the world. Sounds like something N Korea would have in place. Imagine telling Manchester United you can only market yourself in Mexico. Sounds ludicrous.


This is a 500-page discussion. You can get an intrroduction on-line at many, many websites. 

Every significant league does this in some form, typically profit sharing, spending limits, player limits, limiting membership, internal rules and penalties, etc. They are cartels but their local countries allow them to freely violate local antirust laws, so they limit who members can play, how much you can spend, your total number of players and payroll, etc. 

New developments in EU competition law are regular topics for investors and ways of structuring around them are discussed. Europeans tend not to notice because the local governments have tried to give the highly influential leagues broad exemptions so as to make them rich enough to expand worldwide.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Spurs bid to host NFL magnum opus Super Bowl - Coliseum


The Super Bowl is the annual playoff championship game of the National Football League (NFL). It has served as the final game of every NFL.




www.coliseum-online.com





At the moment a Super Bowl host city has to have an NFL franchise, but Tottenham and Sydney are talking about hosting a future Super Bowl.

This has never been taken seriously by the NFL. But a meeting of the Bucs and Rams at New White Hart Lane would attract some fan and press attention.


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## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

Nor does Sydney have a Stadium of the calibre required to host a Super Bowl. Even a regular season game would be a subpar experience at Accor Stadium.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Walbanger said:


> Nor does Sydney have a Stadium of the calibre required to host a Super Bowl. Even a regular season game would be a subpar experience at Accor Stadium.


Ideas about attracting Super Bowls and the like are usually closely correlated with an effort to attract big bucks for stadium expansion/renovation/suites/entertainment district, etc.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.nfl.com/news/packers-buccaneers-cardinals-jaguars-saints-to-play-international-games-in-2022



For 2022 the NFL announces 5 games total in Mexico City, Munich and London (2 sites, with Tottenham getting 2 matches). Many details still forthcoming.


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