# EHF Handball Champions League arenas



## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

Man's EHF CL season 2010./2011.


*RK Zagreb* - Arena Zagreb, Zagreb, Croatia, cap. 15.200

*HSV Handball* - O2 World, Hamburg, Germany, cap. 13.800

*Rhein-Neckar Löwen* - SAP Arena, Mannheim, Germany, cap. 13.200

*THW Kiel* - Sparkassen Arena, Kiel, Germany, cap. 10.250

*Montpellier HB*, La Grande Salle, Montpeller, France, 10.000

*A.C. PAOK* - PAOK Sports Arena, Thessaloniki, Greece, cap. 8.500

*FC Barcelona Handbol* - Palau Blaugrana, Barcelona, Spain, 8.250

*AaB Håndbold* - Gigantium Arena, Aalborg, Denmark, cap. 6.500

*SG Flensburg* - Campushalle, Flensburg, Germany, cap. 6.300

*RK Pivovarna Laško* - Zlatorog Arena, Celje, Slovenia, cap. 6.000

*RK Metalurg Skopje* - Boris Trajkovski Sports Arena, Skopje, Macedonia, 6.000

*CB Ademar León* - Palacio Municipal, León, Spain, cap. 6.000

*BM Ciudad Real* - Quijote Arena, Ciudad Real, Spain, cap. 5.200

*MKB Veszprém* - Veszprém Arena, Veszprém, Hungary, cap. 5.000

*Chambéry Savoie Handball* - Le Phare, Chambéry, France, cap. 4.500

*RK Buducnost* - Morača Sports Center, Podgorica, Montenegro, cap. 4.500

*Vive Targi Kielce* Hala Legionów, Kielce, Poland, cap. 4.200

*BM Valladolid* - Huerta del Rey, Valladolid, Spain, cap. 3.500

*RK Bosna Sarajevo* - Olimpijska dvorana Zetra, Sarajevo, Bosnia-Herzegovina, cap. 3.500

*SC Pick Szeged* - Városi Sportcsarnok, Szeged, Hungary, cap. 3.200

*Chekhovskiye Medvedi* - Sportivnaya baza, Chekhov, Russia, 3.000

*KIF Kolding* - Kolding Hallen, Kolding, Danmark, cap. 2.650

*FC Porto* - Dragão Caixa, Porto, Portugal, cap. 2.200

*HCM Constanţa* - Sala Sporturilor, Constanta, Romania, cap. 2.000

*RK Kolubara* - Sportska hala, Lazarevac, Srbija, cap. 1700

*Kadetten Handball* - Schweizersbildhalle, Schaffhausen, Switzerland, cap. 1.500


24 teams go to group stage: 19 directly + 5 from qualification rounds. Also, there are few teams I haven't mentioned so please post your comments so we can update the list.


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

*RK Zagreb* - Arena Zagreb, Zagreb, Croatia, cap. 15.200


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

*HSV Handball *- O2 World, Hamburg, Germany, cap. 13.800


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

*Rhein-Neckar Löwen* - SAP Arena, Mannheim, Germany, cap. 13.200


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

*THW Kiel* - Sparkassen Arena, Kiel, Germany, cap. 10.250


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

*Montpellier HB*, La Grande Salle, Montpeller, France, 10.000 u/c (to be opened at September, just on start of the new Champions league season)


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## Livno80101 (Mar 15, 2009)

great thread 

and I have a question

what do you think, where will 2011 F4 be held? Zagreb? Ljubljana? Paris? Gdansk? as I believe there wont be once again in Germany...


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

*FC Barcelona Handbol* - Palau Blaugrana, Barcelona, Spain, 8.250


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

*AaB Håndbold* - Gigantium Arena, Aalborg, Denmark, cap. 6.500


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

Livno80101 said:


> great thread
> 
> and I have a question
> 
> what do you think, where will 2011 F4 be held? Zagreb? Ljubljana? Paris? Gdansk? as I believe there wont be once again in Germany...


I don't know. Are those all candidates? I that case i would like to see F4 in Zagreb or Ljubljana.


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

*SG Flensburg* - Campushalle, Flensburg, Germany, cap. 6.300


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

*RK Pivovarna Laško* - Zlatorog Arena, Celje, Slovenia, cap. 6.000


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## Livno80101 (Mar 15, 2009)

FredPerry said:


> I don't know. Are those all candidates? I that case i would like to see F4 in Zagreb or Ljubljana.


I dont know are those candidates, I just gave some examples, as I believe there are no much handball arenas in Europe able to host such event as F4 is...


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

*RK Metalurg Skopje* - Boris Trajkovski Sports Arena, Skopje, Macedonia, 6.000


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

*CB Ademar León* - Palacio Municipal, León, Spain, cap. 6.000


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

*BM Ciudad Real* - Quijote Arena, Ciudad Real, Spain, cap. 5.200


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

*MKB Veszprém* - Veszprém Arena, Veszprém, Hungary, cap. 5.000


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

*RK Buducnost* - Morača Sports Centre, Podgorica, Montenegro, cap. 4.500


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

*Vive Targi Kielce* - Hala Legionów, Kielce, Poland, cap. 4.200


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

*BM Valladolid* - Huerta del Rey, Valladolid, Spain, cap. 3.500


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## Frnjchuga031 (Jan 26, 2009)

Nice thread ! kay:


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## likasz (Sep 4, 2008)

No Italian teams?


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## Livno80101 (Mar 15, 2009)

likasz said:


> No Italian teams?


Italian handball teams are on margins for years... last in CL was Conversano, 5 years ago, I think (I remember them as they played against Zagreb CO)... and there is low interest for handball in Italy


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## likasz (Sep 4, 2008)

^^Thanks.I thought that handball is popular in Italy because they hosted Eurohandball.


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

*SC Pick Szeged* - Városi Sportcsarnok, Szeged, Hungary, cap. 3.200


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

*FC Porto* - Dragão Caixa, Porto, Portugal, cap. 2.200


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

*HCM Constanţa* - Sala Sporturilor, Constanta, Romania, cap. 2.000


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

I didn't find any proper photos for some of those arenas, but you can see some of them on these video clips:

*A.C. PAOK* - PAOK Sports Arena, Thessaloniki, Greece, cap. 8.500
http://www.ehftv.com/ehfcl/ec/cl/men/2009-10/video/000720

*Chambéry Savoie Handball* - Le Phare, Chambéry, France, cap. 4.500
http://www.ehftv.com/ehfcl/ec/cl/men/2009-10/video/000902

*RK Bosna Sarajevo* - Olimpijska dvorana Zetra, Sarajevo, Bosnia-Herzegovina, cap. 3.500
http://www.ehftv.com/ehfcl/ec/cl/men/2009-10/video/000694

*Chekhovskiye Medvedi* - Sportivnaya baza, Chekhov, Russia, 3.000
http://www.ehftv.com/ehfcl/ec/cl/men/2009-10/video/001039

*KIF Kolding* - Kolding Hallen, Kolding, Danmark, cap. 2.650
http://www.ehftv.com/ehfcl/ec/cl/men/2009-10/video/000920


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## SpicyMcHaggis (Oct 7, 2008)

Some of those arenas are way too small and outdated 

EHF should put at least 5k capacity limit.


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

That is true, but, at the same time, some of them are really impressive. Overall, I wolud say there is at least 15 solid arenas.

I agree, 5k should be the minimum.. or maybe even 4k. Those 1-2k arenas are just too small.


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## likasz (Sep 4, 2008)

@FredPerry

HSV and Loewen played their matches of EHF Champions League 2009/2010 in smaller arenas.Loewen played in Karlslruhe and HSV played in 4.5k arena in Hamburg.


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

It depends of opponent. HSV played in big arena only against Barcelona and Zagreb in group stage. Lowen played all group games in small arena because their opponentes were not so attractive. In knock-out stage, they both played in big arenas.


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## ReiAyanami (May 14, 2008)

FredPerry said:


> I didn't find any proper photos for some of those arenas, but you can see some of them on these video clips:
> 
> *A.C. PAOK* - PAOK Sports Arena, Thessaloniki, Greece, cap. 8.500
> http://www.ehftv.com/ehfcl/ec/cl/men/2009-10/video/000720



PAOK arena, here is basketball mode (with more seats, probably)


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## likasz (Sep 4, 2008)

FredPerry said:


> In knock-out stage, they both played in big arenas.


In 1/8 Hamburg played against Vive Kielce in small arena


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

likasz said:


> In 1/8 Hamburg played against Vive Kielce in small arena


OK, so they only played 2 gruop games and 1/4 finals at o2 arena. It seems like they play at smaller arena when they can't sell enough tickets to fill the bigger arena.


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## tony64 (Nov 2, 2008)

Another picture to SC Pick Szeged Sport Hall:


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## hatunash (Jan 18, 2010)

Capacity of Zetra - Sarajevo has been downsized for this season. Full capacity is 10k.
Rk Bosna regularly uses Olimpic Hall Mojmilo (2.5k - completely new) and hall Mirza Delibasic (8k),depending on the opponent.


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

hatunash said:


> Capacity of Zetra - Sarajevo has been downsized for this season. Full capacity is 10k.
> Rk Bosna regularly uses Olimpic Hall Mojmilo (2.5k - completely new) and hall Mirza Delibasic (8k),depending on the opponent.


OK, tnx for info. Unfortunatly, I couldn't find any decent photo of this arena.

Last season RK Bosna played at Zetra hall which had capacity 3.500 for handball and that's why I wrote 3.500. I did the same thing with all arenas, so these are all official capacities for handball. Handball capacities are usualy lower than basketball since handball court is bigger.


btw if I made any mistake please correct me.


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## Marin Mostar (Jan 3, 2009)

I think that the qualty of the arenas is more important than capacitiy, and that should be the only criteria. With capacity limit you are making big cities (they can afford themselfs big arenas) privileged for no real reason and that`s bad.


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## FredPerry (Aug 22, 2005)

Marin Mostar said:


> I think that the qualty of the arenas is more important than capacitiy, and that should be the only criteria. With capacity limit you are making big cities (they can afford themselfs big arenas) privileged for no real reason and that`s bad.


Well, teams from smaller cities can play their games in nearest big city.

For example, ULEB Euroleague has capacity limit: 10.000 for A licenced teams and 5.000 for B licenced teams.


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## lukaszek89 (Nov 20, 2008)

Wisła Płock- Orlen Arena (5,381 for handball)


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## lukaszek89 (Nov 20, 2008)

double post


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## SpicyMcHaggis (Oct 7, 2008)

looks bigger


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## lukaszek89 (Nov 20, 2008)

it has awful side...


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## N23SK (Feb 16, 2012)

HC Metalurg @ SC Boris Trajkovski - Skopje




























They don't have some fanatic fans, so the atmosphere is more like theatrical. Only famous and rich persons "support" this club. Because of that they have 6k attendance. Too bad that HC Vardar hasn't got powerful team, because when HC Vardar played EHF CL there was hell atmosphere.


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## N23SK (Feb 16, 2012)

I found some statistics about club's budgets. This is for sure one of the poorest competition in whole Europe (i don't know only how big are the budgets of the European volleyball teams). Even the teams who compete in the basketball ULEB Eurocup have bigger budgets. 

1. AG København 13.3 million
2. THW Kiel 9.5 million
3. FC Barcelona Intersport 9 million
4. HSV Hamburg 9 million
5. Montpellier HB 6.7 million
6. Atlético Madrid 6.5 million
7. Vive Targi Kielce 6 million
8. IK Sävehof 5.4 million
9. Füchse Berlin 4.7 million
10. Orlen Wisła Płock 3.8 million
11. RK Zagreb 3.5 million
12. MKB Veszprém KC 3.5 million
13. CB Ademar León 3.2 million
14. RK Cimos Koper 2.7 million
15. Kadetten Schaffhausen 2.5 million
16. HC Metalurg 1.5 million


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## SpicyMcHaggis (Oct 7, 2008)

There's no spectacular money in handball.. its extremely popular as amateur and recreational sport all over the continent (with exception of uk) but pro's don't really earn that much.


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## N23SK (Feb 16, 2012)

I know that players like Lazarov, Balic. Ilic, Vori and etc earns 150-200k euro, but it's still too poor to have 14 players in the team, to win the competition and at the end of the day to construct your budget to 9 million (Barca). And if we take the Kiel situation and if we know that every match they have sold out Arena, it gets that selling tickets is one of the major "sponsors" of the team. 
It would be good if someone post the highest payed handball players in the world. Somewhere I found that Karabatic earns around 500k, but that was in the time when he played for THW Kiel.


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## Neda Say (Feb 17, 2006)

N23SK said:


> I found some statistics about club's budgets. This is for sure one of the poorest competition in whole Europe (i don't know only how big are the budgets of the European volleyball teams). Even the teams who compete in the basketball ULEB Eurocup have bigger budgets.
> 
> 1. AG København 13.3 million
> 2. THW Kiel 9.5 million
> ...



Yes, there's a lot less money in European Handball than in Basketball but there's now more money in than in Volleyball! Which is only really popular in Greece and Italy these days!
Handball is on the rise and clubs budgets are definitely on the up! However paychecks are kept in check. Nikola Karabatic is still pretty much the number one player in terms of paycheck as is salary is reported to be still north of 450k a year in Montpellier! The transfer mechanisms are also on the rise with teams trying to negotiate better deals for their players but as a market it is still pretty immature. 

However as a professional sport Handball is catching up quite quickly and local championships are structuring nicely imo! Handball was nowhere 10 years ago and now they are ahead of European Volleyball in terms of media coverage! 

The German Bundesliga being for sure the number one league followed closely by the Spanish Liga Asobal! Both leagues enjoy good media coverage allowing their clubs to become European behemoths. Talking about my local market the french LNH is also structuring! The clubs are working to secure more budget and pushing for new arenas to be build! I heard the same things from Denmark and Norway! The leagues are small but well managed! I think the very essence of the sport is different! it's really a high school sport and still pretty much feels like it! That's probably why I love it

And the sport is also pushing on the world stage with very competitive teams now coming from Africa (Angola, Egypt, Tunisia), Asia (Korea), South America (Argentina)


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## N23SK (Feb 16, 2012)

Neda Say said:


> Yes, there's a lot less money in European Handball than in Basketball but there's now more money in than in Volleyball! Which is only really popular in Greece and Italy these days!
> Handball is on the rise and clubs budgets are definitely on the up! However paychecks are kept in check. Nikola Karabatic is still pretty much the number one player in terms of paycheck as is salary is reported to be still north of 450k a year in Montpellier! The transfer mechanisms are also on the rise with teams trying to negotiate better deals for their players but as a market it is still pretty immature.
> 
> However as a professional sport Handball is catching up quite quickly and local championships are structuring nicely imo! Handball was nowhere 10 years ago and now they are ahead of European Volleyball in terms of media coverage!
> ...


As I said, I don't know anything about club volleyball in Europe. But still, handball is behind hockey, rugby (although it's played only in few European countries) and basketball. Absolutely Bundesliga is the best handball league, but I cannot agree that Spanish ASOBAL is that strong as it was. I can see that in Spain attendance is lower by years, and I guess that in few years regional SEHA league and French LNH would be better than Spanish. For example Barcelona has around 1500 spectators and their second best team has around 2000 (Atletico Madrid). This numbers are for national championship. I hope that Balkan countries will rise their club handball again, as now Macedonia is doing with two pretty rich clubs, but still Serbia has poor teams, also as Croatia (they got only two eminent clubs). If EHF wasn't that corrupted and "close" federation, nowadays handball would be third best club sport. 
For me, the main problem still is that the club budgets aren't rising as it was expect. For example, previous years Kiel had 10.5 million budget, nowadays their budget is 1 million lower. Rhein Neckar Lowen, who had great potential, now is middle class team. I hope that the danish dream team of Copenhagen will motivate others to create more powerful teams which will mean that the wages will be bigger. Handball as game deserves more European media attention.


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## Neda Say (Feb 17, 2006)

You may know that Atletico Madrid is not really the Atletico! It is the former Ciudad Real Balonmano club and their attendance sunk when they had to relocate last! So they numbers are flawed it will take time for the graft to take in Madrid! As for Budget cuts well I heard Europe was going through a crisis so it's not surprising to have clubs not having the same means than 2/3 years ago! Look at all leagues in Europe they are cutting on expenses cause the money is just not there!

If Handball is behind Basketball and Hockey, it's only logical! The rise of European handball happened after Sydney Olympics! When EHF really pushed for a European Championsleague and a more unified competition copying the UEFA organization which is the most professional federation in Europe! 

However relying entirely on the European body won't be enough anyway especially with a weak economy! 

Today, Germany, Spain, France and Denmark have the most attractive championships but it will be a while before France and Denmark are able to gain the firepower or Spain and Germany! But it is good to see that Norway is also stepping up its game! Really the only disappointment would be Russia!

I'm also wondering how long Asobal will be able to sustain 16 clubs when the country is facing a very rought patch!

Germany Bundesliga has 18 clubs, Spain has 16 teams. France and Denmark have opted for a 14 teams format which is wise but does not generate lots of TV money! In all case I think money won't come from TV rights as much as in let's say football! Therefore clubs are pushing for new arenas! The process for sure is slow but it does offer some guarantees!


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## lukaszek89 (Nov 20, 2008)

I think You should add also Poland. 2 clubs in 10 richest are from Poland.


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## N23SK (Feb 16, 2012)

I don't want to show me as anti-handball fan. I'm big fan of this sport, but I'm totally disappointed that there's not any progress in the last 5-7 years, since EHF tried to copy UEFA and ULEB. In my country, almost every year we have CL club. It is Vardar or nowadays Metalurg. The organization is still same. Not the clubs organization. I mean EHF organization. They still don't carry if matches are broadcast with 4-5 cameras, they don't matter about the tickets, they still have pretty poor site (visit euroleague.net so you can compare with the handball situation), they are still giving final four organization to the city of Cologne and etc. You can visit the sites of Marca and AS, two main sport daily papers in Spain and see how many handball stories and reports they have. It's so poor. 
I understand you. You're trying to show me that the situation is going better. But it's not as it seems. Teams cut their budgets in every sport, but that's not argument why in handball the situation is still status quo. For me, handball is only entertainment fun for people from small cities in Germany, France, Spain and that only in small Balkan countries is present in the huge cities, in the capital cities.
Also I know about the Atletico Madrid situation.  But that's not the reason why in million+ city there are only 2k. Local basketball club Estudiantes has 9-10k on every game.
Am glad that Poland is making strong teams, but in my opinion in the next 10 years handball will still be played in several countries like Iceland, Germany, Spain, Slovakia, France, Croatia, Slovenia, Serbia, Macedonia, Poland, Denmark, Norway, Hungary, Czech Republic and maybe Bosnia, Montenegro, Austria and Russia.


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## SpicyMcHaggis (Oct 7, 2008)

Ice hockey and basketball are actively doing on promotion and expansion of their markets, fan bases and general image of the sport. That's why they are bigger and stronger than handball in every single aspect at this momemnt. One average player in top leagues in basketball and ice hockey earns more than entire top notch handball team. 

EHF doesn't help the clubs in any way.. there's no mutual sponsors, there's no mutual marketing.. they are stuck in the past and sadly i don't see it changing anytime soon. Same old people that live from the handball and not for it. 

TV rights are especially sad part. Income is basically non existent. Clubs and EHF even pay the TV stations to broadcast their matches and not the other way around. On other hand major leagues in basketball and ice hockey get multi-country deals worth a lot. 

Its all done so.. amateur.. 

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1099893

Basketball numbers are around the same i'd guess.. maybe a bit lower.. but still.. very high. 

Handball can only dream of such numbers 

It kills me to see that only international competitions are really well done and organized. 

CL final four in handball will again go unnoticed.. apart from the fans of the teams that play on it. 

On other hand Euroleague final 4 will have world wide broadcast.. turned into few days long event in the host city.


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## lukaszek89 (Nov 20, 2008)

Well, Polish federations is 100% unprofessional. Hanball is very dynamic and attractive for eye sport and attracts a lot of fans- but there is no proper organisation. We should host hanball tournament long time ago but we did not- they are unable to organize it.

I think it's also the case with basketball in Poland(although we organized Eurobasket), except volleyball- where we have probably one of the strongest leagues in Europe.


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## N23SK (Feb 16, 2012)

SpicyMcHaggis Do you know how much is HRT paying to RK Zagreb for their matches, or they broadcast for free?
About the club's budgets, it depends, but this year's biggest budget is around 30-35 million euro, maybe a little bit lower. But 2 years ago there were budgets of 40 and 50 million euros, especially before the economic crisis in Greece. I speak only for Euroleague. The lowest is around 3 million (Olimpija Ljubljana), so I can say that Euroleague is almost same with KHL. But if we look that teems need less players than in hockey, by player it's maybe more rich competition. But still, especially Greek, Turkish, Russian and Spanish teams earns enormous money from TV rights. Not so enormous like in UEFA CL, but still, for a second best European competition in which you need only 12-14 players, receiving TV-rights money is way bigger than in the other sports.
If EHF don't decide to rotate the final four tournaments in many countries, there won't be any brighter days for the EHF CL. Even SEHA league can be more organized than the people in Vienna HQ.


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## SpicyMcHaggis (Oct 7, 2008)

Big budget basketball clubs are unfortunately also history.. apart from Turkey and Spain. Crisis hit the Greek clubs really hard. I'd say that the top clubs can maybe compete with top ice hockey clubs but outside of those few elite clubs everyone else struggles.. and in ice hockey you have 8, 9 good paying (100k+ per player) leagues while in basketball its just 5, 6 (Turkey, Greece, VTB, ABA, Spain, Italy.. maybe few other clubs around the continent as well (Bayer etc)). 

But basketball will bounce back.. its problem is that its mostly popular in areas where financial crisis is big.. but the interest and fan support didn't drop. That's most important. 

As for HRT and RK Zagreb... peanuts.


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## likasz (Sep 4, 2008)

N23SK said:


> I found some statistics about club's budgets. This is for sure one of the poorest competition in whole Europe (*i don't know only how big are the budgets of the European volleyball teams*). Even the teams who compete in the basketball ULEB Eurocup have bigger budgets.



Nobody knows how big are budgets of volleyball clubs, nobody publishes it. The best players in Poland get around 250k Euro per season. Russians and Italians pay more.Greek league is a history.

For sure situation of handball in europe is much better now. Volleyball CL has no sponsors (sic!) and clubs have to pay more than they get from european cups.National leagues from Russia, Poland and Italy are much better organized than european cups.

Guys from EHF are developing their sport very good.


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## N23SK (Feb 16, 2012)

SpicyMcHaggis said:


> Big budget basketball clubs are unfortunately also history.. apart from Turkey and Spain. Crisis hit the Greek clubs really hard. I'd say that the top clubs can maybe compete with top ice hockey clubs but outside of those few elite clubs everyone else struggles.. and in ice hockey you have 8, 9 good paying (100k+ per player) leagues while in basketball its just 5, 6 (Turkey, Greece, VTB, ABA, Spain, Italy.. maybe few other clubs around the continent as well (Bayer etc)).
> 
> *But basketball will bounce back.. its problem is that its mostly popular in areas where financial crisis is big.. but the interest and fan support didn't drop. That's most important. *


This is very important. Basketball fans never left out their teams. As I saw last week's Cibona-Partizan match, there very nearly 4.5k in the hall. Red Star fans are coming back to the matches, while handball clubs when they start to show poor results, the fans are leaving and focusing on another sport. This is my opinion based on watching matches on TV. 
Although there's crisis in Greece, still the most payed players earns 2-2.5 million per year, and it seems that beside crisis they have respectable teams. There interesting thing that one basketball player in Macedonian teams earns 150-170k per year and a lot of another player earns from 50-80k per year, which is wage that some handball players earns in the best Bundesliga.
If EHF don't realize the real situation, there won't be some dramatical changes. Still we have arenas with 2-3k, more than 20 years old and the most important thing there's not define date and hour when the teams can play. Germans play on Thursdays, Russians on Sunday noon, Barcelona every Saturday at 4:00 and etc. 
Just because there are still dedicated fans to their handball clubs, there's still some competitiveness, because if we let handball only to the Germans and Scandinavians, it will be a theatrical show for small citites.


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## Битола (Aug 6, 2010)

^^Speaking of attendances at sports games in Europe, I was amazed when I saw how many spectators there were at games at the European Water Polo Championship in Eindhoven. The very first game (Macedonia vs. Turkey) had an attendance of only 150 and the final only had 2,300.


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## Junkie (Oct 5, 2007)

ratipok said:


> The question is which Slovenian teams, that is how many? Slovenian handball federation wont join this league unless there are at least four, possibly five, Slovenian clubs in the league (my opinion offcourse). Celje, Gorenje and Cimos without question and probably Maribor as fourth. You say it would not be fair that Slovenia would have four teams in this league, I (and most of Slovenian public I believe) say why would it be unfair? Does this league wants quality or quantity? If SEHA would follow your "ideal league concept" and offer two permanent spots to Slovenia, Slovenian federation and their club members wouldnt even sit behind the barganing table. In any case, even if your concept of 2+2 for Slovenia would be realized that would mean that two Slovenian teams would simply qualify each year, with being a major upset if one of them would fail to do so.
> 
> My ideal SEHA concept would be a league of 16 teams from:
> 4 teams from Slovenia (Gorenje, Celje, Cimos, Maribor)
> ...


4 Slovenian teams?? Your best team Koper is actually very week team, I even think that one would be OK.


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## ratipok (Feb 21, 2008)

Junkie said:


> 4 Slovenian teams?? Your best team Koper is actually very week team, I even think that one would be OK.


Nice try, at trolling :banana: .

On the other note. Koper is actually the third best Slovenian team at the moment, with one draw and five loses in the first part (20 rounds) of the Slovenian championship (8 points behind Gorenje and 3 behind Celje who both still has one match to play). They did finished as runners up in Slovenian cup (lost to Celje) and second in Champions league group stage (behind Hamburg and ahead of Metalurg) and will play Kielce in the Round of 16. After 20 rounds top six placed teams in Slovenian championship will play in the championship playoffs against each others and it is highly unlikely that we will see Koper in the Champions league next year (top two teams). But thats just because the league is strong obviously. They will finish third though and will qualify to the newly established EHF European cup (a merger of EHF Cup + EHF Cup Winners Cup). Interesting enough, Koper has a budget that is surpassed only by Zagreb in SEHA league. Similarly to Gorenje and Celje.

Slovenian league is currently designated as sixt in Europe, which means two spots in Champions league and another two in the newly established European cup for next season. Judging by the performances of clubs in this season EHF competitions it is likely that the league will become officialy designated as third in the power rankings (were it once already was).


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## N23SK (Feb 16, 2012)

I can agree that Slovenia has better handball club competition than any other Balkan country. But still, I think that 4 teams is not so good idea at the start. Because this league will be more stronger than domestic Slovenian championship and it will have benefit for 4 Slovenian and for only 2 clubs from any other country. In that case, the handball in other countries will go down, because 3rd clubs from Macedonia, Serbia and Croatia will not have any quality rivals, so they will not be motivated to invest in youth camps and quality players from abroad.
If your federation wont like to seat to negotiate if there are only 2 or 3 places for your teams, than they don't need to negotiate. If you think you have strong league, than have it. I'm still assured that SEHA is great project for the Balkan teams. Metalurg is example how good competition as SEHA is, can produce stronger team for EHF CL. Because when they played Macedonian league they had poor results. And about telling how many quality teams has Macedonia, I can bet with you that Vardar is also very strong team with good players and believe if Vardar meets some Slovenian team that Vardar will win the battle.


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## SpicyMcHaggis (Oct 7, 2008)

Some of the Slovenian posters are seriously deluded.. with 4 Slovenian clubs in the league two of those would be rock bottom. Being 3rd or 6th league means absolutely nothing when there are only 2 leagues (German and Spanish) in the Europe where there are more than 2 competative clubs. Get real..


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Here are the two French arenas which were used this season:

*Location: Montpellier,* Languedoc-Roussillon
*Name: Park&Suites Arena*
*Handball Capacity: 9,000 seats*
*Opening: 2010*





























































































-------------------



*Location: Chambéry,* Savoy
*Name: Le Phare* 
*Handball Capacity: 4,423 seats*
*Opening: 2009*


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## ratipok (Feb 21, 2008)

Sorry but saying some of them/us are deluded is just being plain ignorant. I guess it really is hard to acknowledge for some that Slovenian league posseses quality. Saying that Slovenia doesnt have more then two competitive clubs to join the regional league is just plain trolling. Top three Slovenian teams (Celje, Gorenje and Cimos) all have a budget that in SEHA league is surpassed only by Zagreb and they are playing the Slovenian championship. All of their budgets would even increase dramaticlly if they would join this regional league (especially those of Gorenje and Cimos since their main sponsors have a strategic intrests in the markets of ex-Yugoslav countries). During this season Cimos finished second in their Champions league group stage behind German title holders Hamburg and were the only ones that made them a run for their money on both maches in the group, while Celje and Gorenje both plays in the quarterfinal of the Cup winners cup and the EHF cup (being among the favourites to win the title). Maribor is among the favourites to win the Challenge cup and is also in the quarterfinal. Next to Germany Slovenia is the only country in this season without a club being knocked out of a EHF competition. Spain's record was intact until Valladolid (currently third in Asobal league) was drawn togheter with Gorenje in the third round of the EHF Cup.

I have taken the liberty to check the results in EHF competitions during the past decade. Taking into account winners, runners up and semifinalists. Here are the stats:

EHF Champions League:
- Slovenia (1 win, 2 semifinals - two different clubs - Celje and Prule 67)
- Hungary (1 win, 2 semifinals - one club - Veszprem)

EHF Champions Trophy / EHF Supercup
- Slovenia (1 win, 1 final - one club - Celje)
- Hungary (2 semifinals - one club - Veszprem)

EHF Cup:
- Slovenia (1 final, 1 semifinal - two different clubs - Gorenje and Cimos)
- Hungary (1 semifinal - one club - Dunaferr)

EHF Cup Winners Cup
- Hungary (1 win, 1 semifinal - two different clubs - Veszprem and Dunaferr)
- Croatia (1 final, 1 semifinal - one club - Zagreb)
- Slovenia (2 semifinals - two different clubs - Celje and Gorenje)
- Bosnia (2 semifinals - two different clubs - Bosna and Izviđać)
- Macedonia (2 semifinals - one club - Vardar)
- Serbia (1 semifinal - one club - Partizan)

EHF Challenge Cup (a competition that isnt played by clubs ranked in top 6 of the EHF power league rankings, which means that Slovenian and Hungarian clubs didnt play in this competition for the whole last decade - other nations in the current SEHA league all did)
- Slovenia (1 win, 1 semifinal - two clubs - Cimos and Slovan)
- Macedonia (1 final - one club - Pelister)
- Croatia (1 semifinal - one club - Medveščak)
- Serbia (1 semifinal - one club - Partizan)

So lets say a team recieves a point if they have lost in the semifinal, two points if they lost in the final and three for winning the trophy. That would give us the following table:
- Slovenia 19 pts
- Hungary 12 pts 
- Croatia 4 pts 
- Macedonia 4 pts 
- Bosnia 2 pts
- Serbia 2 pts

Is there really anything more to say? The only country that is somewhat close to Slovenian results in Europe during the past 10 years is Hungary, while others are not even close.

Back to reality..


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## ratipok (Feb 21, 2008)

@N23SK

I doubt Metalurg got this good simply by playing in SEHA league. Maybe it contributed somewhat but the main reason why they are where they are currently is money. Money brought results to them even before SEHA really even started properly, imo. Btw, I really respect Vardar and know they are a hard nut to crack for any team (especially at home).

And another thing why SEHA officials desperatly want Slovenian clubs to join this league. Sponsorship. Gorenje, Cimos, Mercator and Petrol are among the firms with strategic intrest in the ex-Yugoslav markets. Those are known for their patronage of handball. Especially Cimos and Gorenje who are main sponsors of Koper and Velenje (Cimos also is the main sponsor of Gradačac, a team from the Bosnian premier league).

BTW: Should we move somewhere else with this disscusion? Dont want this to be deleted because we are probably offtopic

Nice pics "parcdesprinces"! Chambery arena looks really nice and a lot bigger inside than it is by capacity. And I just realized that Montpellier arena first two pics arent renders :cheers:


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## N23SK (Feb 16, 2012)

ratipok said:


> @N23SK
> 
> I doubt Metalurg got this good simply by playing in SEHA league. Maybe it contributed somewhat but the main reason why they are where they are currently is money. Money brought results to them even before SEHA really even started properly, imo. Btw, I really respect Vardar and know they are a hard nut to crack for any team (especially at home).
> 
> ...


About Metalurg, that's the personal view of the team's chiefs. They all agree that playing SEHA helped them to have more serious games. It's not same to play against Zagreb, Tatran, Borac and Nexe, or playing against Pelister, Tineks Prolet, Borec and etc. Of course that money play huge part, but they had the same budget and last year, but they don't even pass the qualifying stage. 
The these with the sponsors is absolutely true, as we can see that also ABA basketball league has plenty of Slovenian sponsors and till this year NLB was main sponsor. Besides that, chairmanship like the Slovenian clubs for improving the quality of the competition. My opinion is that if Slovenians join this league, that it will be organized much better, there will be more TV broadcastings and that sponsors from all countries will enter in the SEHA league, just because Slovenian market is more attractive than Macedonian or Montenegrin.


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## Kazurro (Jan 23, 2005)

N23SK said:


> I found some statistics about club's budgets. This is for sure one of the poorest competition in whole Europe (i don't know only how big are the budgets of the European volleyball teams). Even the teams who compete in the basketball ULEB Eurocup have bigger budgets.
> 
> 1. AG København 13.3 million
> 2. THW Kiel 9.5 million
> ...


Ademar is 2.2 million not 3.2, and we expect a great reduction for next year. (I must correct it, the budget is 2.124.631 euros)

This is our arena, probably one of the oldest in EHF Champions League

*Location:* León, León
*Name:* Palacio Municipal de Deportes
*Handball Capacity:* 5,188 seats
Opening: *1970









*


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## Kazurro (Jan 23, 2005)

I must correct myself. Ademar budget for 2011-2012 season is *EXACTLY *2.124.631 euros



Neda Say said:


> You may know that Atletico Madrid is not really the Atletico! It is the former Ciudad Real Balonmano club and their attendance sunk when they had to relocate last! So they numbers are flawed it will take time for the graft to take in Madrid! As for Budget cuts well I heard Europe was going through a crisis so it's not surprising to have clubs not having the same means than 2/3 years ago! Look at all leagues in Europe they are cutting on expenses cause the money is just not there!
> 
> If Handball is behind Basketball and Hockey, it's only logical! The rise of European handball happened after Sydney Olympics! When EHF really pushed for a European Championsleague and a more unified competition copying the UEFA organization which is the most professional federation in Europe!
> 
> ...


About CR that was the official reason but IMHO is not true. During the times of precrisis, minor professional sports in Spain like basketball or handball were subsidied by municipal governments and by real estate companies or local banks (usually in order to get benefits like faster permissions to build etc...)

CR was heavily subsidied by his owner a very important bussinessman, who had a close relationship with the regional government of Castilla La Mancha, the region where Ciudad Real is. After 30 years with the same party in power things changed last year as they lost the government. Just a few days afterwards the owner decided to move the team.

You wonder how ASOBAL is able to sustain a 16-teams League. The answer is easy, is unable. Teams are receiving less subsidies as most of municipalities and local banks are near bankrupcy or doing considerable cuts for avoiding it. Nowadays most of ASOBAL teams are not paying wages (I've read some informations saying only 3 teams dont owe money to players).

For example Ademar, is a team in a 200,000 inhabitants city were handball is very popular as our football team sucks and our basketball team is far from his best era. The average attendance is more than 3000 people which is the best in Spain along with Atlético (and is not any boom, it has been in that way since the mid-90s), our youth teams are the best in Spain along with Barcelona, so as you can imagine we have one of the most solid structures in Spain. 

But the reality is different. We owe four months to the players because the Municipality (near bankrupcy) dont pay the promised subvention and one of the sponsors, a State-owned railway company have not paid yet. The money owned by them to Ademar is 400.000 euros, although fortunately seems the problem of the railways is only a merely bureaucratic one. So although we get good income from tickets we cant pay. Then you can imagine which is the situation for those teams who depends almost enterely from subventions or subsidies and has not 3000 season ticket holders like us, but only 100 or 200 people.


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## N23SK (Feb 16, 2012)

@Kazurro

How much do the players earn at Ademar, if you now? Do they have big wages, like 10-15k per month or lower?


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## Kazurro (Jan 23, 2005)

N23SK said:


> @Kazurro
> 
> How much do the players earn at Ademar, if you now? Do they have big wages, like 10-15k per month or lower?


There's a player, a well-known Spanish player who's earning about 10k per month. The other players are earning about 5k-6k or less, including Stranovsky (he's signing for Barça next year is said to earn about 150-200k per year). The total budget for salaries is about a million, I don't remember exactly.

By the way Rutenka is said to be earning 800k per year in Barça I dont know if it is true... but I believe it.


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## ratipok (Feb 21, 2008)

Last round of the regular season in Slovenian championship, another day of hard fought matches for top Slovenian teams:

*Cimos Koper* : Šmartno Herz Factor Banka *39:35 (18:17)*

*Trimo Trebnje* : Istrabenz Plini Izola *27:23 (12:12)*

Maribor Branik : *Ribnica Riko hiše* *28:29 (14:14)*

Krka : Celje Pivovarna Laško *26:26 (11:14)*

*Gorenje Velenje* : Jeruzalem Ormož *38:22 (18:10)*

The "Championship playoffs" will be played among the top six teams during the first 20 rounds, with clubs attaining their points from the regular season.
1. Gorenje Velenje - 39 points
2. Celje Pivovarna Laško - 33
3. Cimos Koper - 27
4. Trimo Trebnje - 22
5. Maribor Branik - 17
6. Krško - 17

The rest of the bunch will play in the "Relegation playoffs". Looks like Gorenje and Celje are almost certainly set for next years Champions League, while Cimos is set to play in the newly established European cup. Trimo and Maribor will battle it out on who will join them.


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## ratipok (Feb 21, 2008)

During this week the board of the Association of Slovenian first division clubs granted Celje a permission to join SEHA league in the next season under several restrictions. Some would say thats a surprise but not really, since one of the conditions is that they will have to play ALL of the games in the next season Slovenian league (32 rounds). So in esence Slovenian league doesnt lose anything.

Celje is the only club who gained the permission and they were the only one who applied for one (other Slovenian clubs are currently not interested in joining the regional league). 

Since Celje will be forced to play all games in Slovenian league that means that they will likely play majority of matches in SEHA with their reserve players (they just wont be able to play 32 Slovenian league matches + at least 10 Champions league + Slovenian cup and probably well over 20 SEHA matches. Thats around 75 matches of the season. Unless they double their current budget (which they wont since that would mean probably over 5 million) and sign at least one full field squad of player of similar quality they currently have, they will drop dead in the middle of the season. So, either they will "die" in early December or they will play SEHA with reserves, since Slovenian league is competitive (if they play with reserves there they will lose their chances for Champions league qualification by December) and only Slovenain league brings Champions league qualifications (you get nothing for winning SEHA), which is one of their primary objectives each season and brings clubs the most money.

It is also good to note that all that doesnt mean that Celje if 100% approved for SEHA league during next season. They still dont have the green light of Slovenian handball federation and since most of Slovenian league clubs, officials and fans are against this league their approval is unlikely.


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## mlm (Sep 11, 2002)

Not really a regular CL arena but BSV (from Denmark) played their home game against Atletico Madrid here in Herning. The attendance for the game was 10.137, but the capacity is higher when adding more chairs closer to the field. The record for a handball game here is 12.138.

Location: Herning, Denmark
Name: Jyske Bank Boxen
Handball Capacity: 10.000-12.138 seats (depending on configuration)
Opening: 2010


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## Kazurro (Jan 23, 2005)

mlm said:


> Not really a regular CL arena but BSV (from Denmark) played their home game against Atletico Madrid here in Herning. The attendance for the game was 10.137, but the capacity is higher when adding more chairs closer to the field. The record for a handball game here is 12.138.
> 
> Location: Herning, Denmark
> Name: Jyske Bank Boxen
> ...


Ademar played once at León Arena (our bullring) with a capacity of 10.000 people. However it has been not considered in recent times for important matches because of the fact the enviroment in the _Palacio de Deportes_ is much hotter.

By the way about the issue of debts in Spain, nowadays there are only five teams who dont owe wages to his players, Barcelona, Atleti, La Rioja, Huesca and Anaitasuna. I hope problems will solve here...


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## N23SK (Feb 16, 2012)

Metalurg - Zagreb 7k but there was an theatrical atmosphere


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## alwn (Jan 24, 2010)

Kazurro said:


> I must correct myself. Ademar budget for 2011-2012 season is *EXACTLY *2.124.631 euros
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I didnt know that a strong league like Asobal has such a low attendance. What is the average attendance? I couldn't find any figure.. 
German Bundesliga stay better with around 4.500 average att..

What's going on with Elgorrida Bidasoa? It is still play in asobal?


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## Juarrox (Nov 3, 2007)

*AG Copenhagen plans to break EHF CL’s visitors record!
*

Danish champion, AG Copenhagen is already in preparation of TOP 8 home match in the EHF Champions League. Danes want to make something special, that is why Management decided to organise match at the “Parken Stadium”, the biggest one in Copenhagen, where AG already broke world’s record in spectators at one handball match – more than 35.000 last year in Danish Championship Final against Silkeborg.

This time, capacity will be smaller – about 22.000, enough to break record of the EHF CL and to fit all the standards and conditions for TOP handball events.


Source: http://www.handball-planet.com/2012/03/ag-copenhagen-plans-to-break-visitors-ehf-cl-record/


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## Kazurro (Jan 23, 2005)

alwn said:


> I didnt know that a strong league like Asobal has such a low attendance. What is the average attendance? I couldn't find any figure..
> German Bundesliga stay better with around 4.500 average att..
> 
> What's going on with Elgorrida Bidasoa? It is still play in asobal?


Well I don't know but I suppose is about 1,500.

Whilst in Germany or Scandinavia handball has got some importance in big cities as the second professional team sport (Berlin, Hamburg, Copenaghe, etc...) in Spain this role is for basketball and the cities where handball is popular usually are small ones where there's any other major sport. For example in my city (metro 200,000 inhabitants) we have a second division basketball team and our football team is an amateur one in the fourth level. Same for other historical cities of our handball like Ciudad Real (about 70,000 inhabitants), Irún (Bidasoa, about the same), Granollers (60.000),etc... And most of the teams of ASOBAL are from similar cities like Logroño (150k), Antequera (40k), Cuenca (50k), Huesca (50k)...

Bidasoa nowadays is playing in the División de Plata, our second category very far from promotion or relegation. They've had a lot of economic troubles in the past, but I hope them to return to elite.

By the way, we've defeated Veszprem. It's the first time in our history we win a knock-out in Champions League


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