# Stadiums Around the World that Could Host an NFL Game



## KLynch (Mar 5, 2011)

With the new collective bargaining agreement in the NFL moving the season to 17 games in 2021, you will see a lot more international and neural site games with that extra game. We've seen the NFL host games in London at Wembley, Twickenham, and Tottenham Hotspur Stadium; Mexico City at Estadio Azteca; and the Bills did some games at Rogers Centre in Toronto, which were not a huge success based on attendance and stadium orientation, and the Packers did a preseason game in Winnipeg, which the stadium field wasn't ready for.

I think you'll see the NFL try to get into a lot of different markets all over the world and would think some of the first targets would be Brazil, Ireland, France, Germany, Spain, Australia, Japan, and more. We've seen college football games in Dublin and Sydney, and I think it makes sense for Tottenham Hotspur Stadium to get in on this with their American football stadium accommodations.

Let's discuss what stadiums could host an NFL game. The field would need to be at least 130 yards in length (100 yard field, 2 10 yard end zones, and at least a few yards of extra space beyond each end zone.) I think the NFL will probably look for stadiums with at least 60,000 capacity and luxury suites and hospitality areas. The bigger the stadium the more attractive, but now that a team won't have to give up a home game to play these games, that might be less important and some smaller stadiums might get selected.

Also, please post pictures of NFL and college football games in international stadiums.


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

let‘s find out first if we‘re going to have a season at all ...

they said the only fair idea behind 17 games schedule is to have the same number of home games per conference per year. means one year AFC teams play 9 home games and NFC year after! I do not think 17 games schedule is going to impact international games too much, apart from having more regular season games means more “disposable“ games as well


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## GreenHornet553 (Jan 6, 2013)

One stadium that immediately comes to mind, at least for me, is the BC Place in Vancouver


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## ielag (Jan 13, 2013)

Veltins Arena. Could roll the grass field outside and lay down an artificial turf so the field wouldn't get marked/damaged for Schalke matches, has a retractable roof, and in a huge metropolitan region.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

Red Bull Arena in Leipzig gets my vote. Even though it's designed for a different sport, it's almost a perfect American Football stadium with regards to its sightlines and general design:



















Watching a game from the 50 yd line would look perfect here!


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## Elwin94 (Sep 25, 2017)

France: Stade De France
Germany: Berlin Olympiastadion/Allianz Arena/Red Bull Arena (Once it expand) / Signal Iduna Park (Will look awesome with the Yellow Wall Stand)
Spain: Wanda Metropolitano/Santiago Bernabeu/Camp Nou
Brazil: Maracana Stadium
Japan: Tokyo National Stadium
Australia: ANZ Stadium/MCG/Marvel Stadium


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## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

German certainly has Stadiums that are favorable to American Football, with the front rows being raised above the field level.
Most other rectangular stadiums built for soccer or rugby would need tarps over the first few rows as they'd be obstructed from the pay by the players on the sidelines.

Though an American Football field may fit easily, I'd say no to any Baseball fields (Japan, Korea), Athletics tack stadiums (like Berlin Olympic) or Cricket/Aussie Rules Ovals (I'd include Sydney's ANZ in its current configuration and Melbourne's Marvel Stadium regardless of movable tiers). I'll also throw in Stade de France and Dublin's Croke Park as thefield is just too large. The viewing experience in these would be awful.


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## krnboy1009 (Aug 9, 2011)

Walbanger said:


> German certainly has Stadiums that are favorable to American Football, with the front rows being raised above the field level.
> Most other rectangular stadiums built for soccer or rugby would need tarps over the first few rows as they'd be obstructed from the pay by the players on the sidelines.
> 
> Though an American Football field may fit easily, I'd say no to any Baseball fields (Japan, Korea), Athletics tack stadiums (like Berlin Olympic) or Cricket/Aussie Rules Ovals (I'd include Sydney's ANZ in its current configuration and Melbourne's Marvel Stadium regardless of movable tiers). I'll also throw in Stade de France and Dublin's Croke Park as thefield is just too large. The viewing experience in these would be awful.


Stade de France might be good for Canadian football.


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## KLynch (Mar 5, 2011)

While viewing experience and sight lines are cool, I wouldn't put too much stock into it. In America we do football games in old baseball stadiums and NASCAR tracks just for the novelty of it. Some college football stadium have some pretty bad seats, but football games are about the environment, and unless you are higher up and near the 50s, you are typically relying on the big screen to see some things. As far as height of the first row, I think it only needs to be slightly higher than what you see in most English stadiums. There are a lot of stadiums like M&T Bank Stadium, FedEX Field, and CenturyLink where the first row is not much higher.

If I were a betting man, I'd imagine the next three places NFL is targeting are Brazil, Germany, and Australia. Maracana Stadium and Allianz Arena look pretty turn key for NFL without any tarps. ANZ Stadium would work fine. 

The NBA got itself in quite the PR disaster with its love of China, so I don't think the NFL will go down that road.


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## ielag (Jan 13, 2013)

Elwin94 said:


> Signal Iduna Park (Will look awesome with the Yellow Wall Stand)


The Yellow Wall would absolutely revolt if an NFL game was played on BVB's grass during the Bundesliga season.


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## flierfy (Mar 4, 2008)

KLynch said:


> If I were a betting man, I'd imagine the next three places NFL is targeting are Brazil, Germany, and Australia. Maracana Stadium and Allianz Arena look pretty turn key for NFL without any tarps. ANZ Stadium would work fine.


There is no chance that an NFL game takes place in a football stadium during the season. Clubs spend significant amounts of money to get impeccable pitches. The last thing they want is a game rendering all these efforts worthless.
For this reason the only available stadiums could be the Stade de France and the Schalke Arena. The first is a national stadium which is rarely used in the final four month of the year. And the former has as mentioned above a retractable pitch. This allows the stadium operator to save the pitch while hosting the NFL.


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## KLynch (Mar 5, 2011)

An NFL game doesn't really put that much of a beating on grass unless it rains, which I know you can't predict, but can almost guarantee it in London. The Ravens turf at M&T Bank Stadium was in pretty impeccable condition during the first half of the season this year.


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## Rob73 (Jun 18, 2014)

I don't know why any stadium would bother unless the city they are located in has a large US expat community. I went to an NFL game, it took a long time to play, the action was limited, to much stop and start it's barely watchable live, for people used to watching football, rugby, rugby league or Aussie Rules its a non event live. It's a game made for TV and sitting outside the stadium tailgating and getting drunk.


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## krnboy1009 (Aug 9, 2011)

KLynch said:


> An NFL game doesn't really put that much of a beating on grass unless it rains, which I know you can't predict, but can almost guarantee it in London. The Ravens turf at M&T Bank Stadium was in pretty impeccable condition during the first half of the season this year.


the problem lies more with the paint job they need to do on the pitch.


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## Rev Stickleback (Jun 23, 2009)

Rob73 said:


> I don't know why any stadium would bother unless the city they are located in has a large US expat community. I went to an NFL game, it took a long time to play, the action was limited, to much stop and start it's barely watchable live, for people used to watching football, rugby, rugby league or Aussie Rules its a non event live. It's a game made for TV and sitting outside the stadium tailgating and getting drunk.


It's more about local support for the game. There aren't 80,000 ex-pats going to Wembley two or three times every year. Germany would almost certainly be able to draw support. Other countries, I'm not so sure. It's very hard to gauge how popular the sport is internationally.

I would imagine fans of the game, who probably watch games live on tv, are used to the stoppages.


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## Rob73 (Jun 18, 2014)

Rev Stickleback said:


> It's more about local support for the game. There aren't 80,000 ex-pats going to Wembley two or three times every year. Germany would almost certainly be able to draw support. Other countries, I'm not so sure. It's very hard to gauge how popular the sport is internationally.
> 
> I would imagine fans of the game, who probably watch games live on tv, are used to the stoppages.


There's about 200,000 Americans living in the UK, about 60,000 in London. 

When you watch on TV the stoppages are when the ads are played, when you watch in a stadium nothing happens. It's probably why people get drunk at the games, there's nothing else to do.


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## Rev Stickleback (Jun 23, 2009)

Rob73 said:


> There's about 200,000 Americans living in the UK, about 60,000 in London.
> 
> When you watch on TV the stoppages are when the ads are played, when you watch in a stadium nothing happens. It's probably why people get drunk at the games, there's nothing else to do.


I've been to a few of these games. The stadiums are not full of Americans. There are some Americans there, but the overwhelming majority are people from the UK. The sport has a fair-sized fanbase here.

I've little drunkenness at games, and as I said, fans will be quite aware of the stoppages, the worst of which are actually later in the game. They usually organise some kind of distraction in the stadium for the longer ad breaks, and the shorter ones aren't that long.


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

Rev Stickleback said:


> I've been to a few of these games. The stadiums are not full of Americans. There are some Americans there, but the overwhelming majority are people from the UK. The sport has a fair-sized fanbase here.
> 
> I've little drunkenness at games, and as I said, fans will be quite aware of the stoppages, the worst of which are actually later in the game. They usually organise some kind of distraction in the stadium for the longer ad breaks, and the shorter ones aren't that long.


yes, also many fans from continental europe came to those games. mostly people who do not get a chance to travel to the states that often. still, in long term that will ease a bit, Im not so sure about the future of these international games, not too bright imho. they should stick to the usa anyway.


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## Rev Stickleback (Jun 23, 2009)

ElvisBC said:


> yes, also many fans from continental europe came to those games. mostly people who do not get a chance to travel to the states that often. still, in long term that will ease a bit, Im not so sure about the future of these international games, not too bright imho. they should stick to the usa anyway.


As long as they keep selling out, they'll probably keep having them. They've been doing them since 2007, with pre-season games before that, so the "novelty" isn't wearing off. They undoubtedly help promote the game in the UK, and maybe Europe too, which is probably why the NFL is so keen.


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## KLynch (Mar 5, 2011)

When I attended an NFL game at Wembley (See my pictures here) the crowd was a mixed bag. I'd say there were 20,000-30,000 people that traveled from the US to see their team as its a fun trip and traveling for NFL is a pretty big thing as there are no restrictions on away fans in stadiums. The rest of the stadium was filled with fans from all over Europe. There were so many different languages being spoken around me. It seems NFL fans in Europe have picked a favorite team, and when that team comes to London, many make an effort to go. So between traveling American fans, traveling European fans, and people around London that just want to go to an NFL game, it's an easy event to fill. I think Germany, or Spain, or France, or Italy, or Ireland would have no problem filling a stadium for one game.


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## chicagobuildingnerd1833 (Sep 23, 2021)

RyukyuRhymer said:


> Yeah compared to China I agree. In east Asia, japan is probably the best market for American football. But it’s still far below many other sports in popularity here.


I am not denying the sport has a small popularity in Japan. However the sport is also noticeably less popular in Germany (soccer is most popular followed by handball and ice hockey), Mexico (like Japan baseball and soccer are most popular) and the UK (cares most about soccer, cricket and rugby). I think if the NFL were at the Saitama Stadium they would come close to selling out. Here is the crowd at the Rice Bowl.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RyukyuRhymer said:


> American football is not that popular here in Japan.
> Sure there is a pro league (and its been around for 50 years and has over 50 teams but in reality its just less than 20 teams in each tier), but its popularity is very small. In fact nearly a majority of the teams are found only in the greater Tokyo area, and the few remainder in Kansai, with one in Fukuoka. That's a lot more unbalanced than pro baseball, soccer, or basketball teams here where all regions are represented.
> 
> In college and high school, we have clubs for soccer, basketball, tennis, volleyball, etc.. but schools that have American football clubs are really really few. My university had one, and even though it was one of the better football schools.. it was obviously underfunded and made up of a group of fans. All the equipment were not new and some handcrafted.
> ...


Thanks for bringing some rationality to an absurd discussion!


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

chicagobuildingnerd1833 said:


> I am not denying the sport has a small popularity in Japan. However the sport is also noticeably less popular in Germany (soccer is most popular followed by handball and ice hockey), Mexico (like Japan baseball and soccer are most popular) and the UK (cares most about soccer, cricket and rugby). I think if the NFL were at the Saitama Stadium they would come close to selling out. Here is the crowd at the Rice Bowl.


Selling-out can easily be done by unloading remaining tickets for almost nothing and then giving away the rest. Every sport on earth does this in one way or other. 

The main idea is to use the games as the centerpiece around extensive media and in-person events that will get onto local media which is potentially watched by huge audiences who then BECOME interested in what they are watching..


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## chicagobuildingnerd1833 (Sep 23, 2021)

pesto said:


> Selling-out can easily be done by unloading remaining tickets for almost nothing and then giving away the rest. Every sport on earth does this in one way or other.
> 
> The main idea is to use the games as the centerpiece around extensive media and in-person events that will get onto local media which is potentially watched by huge audiences who then BECOME interested in what they are watching..


Never thought of that. However, early ticket sales would be higher in a country that has at least some interest in the game. Japan would definitely have more early ticket sales than China this the NFL will make more money. Plus a Japan based NFL game can be marketed to a Chinese audience because they are in the same time zone region.


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## chicagobuildingnerd1833 (Sep 23, 2021)

Walbanger said:


> German certainly has Stadiums that are favorable to American Football, with the front rows being raised above the field level.
> Most other rectangular stadiums built for soccer or rugby would need tarps over the first few rows as they'd be obstructed from the pay by the players on the sidelines.
> 
> Though an American Football field may fit easily, I'd say no to any Baseball fields (Japan, Korea), Athletics tack stadiums (like Berlin Olympic) or Cricket/Aussie Rules Ovals (I'd include Sydney's ANZ in its current configuration and Melbourne's Marvel Stadium regardless of movable tiers). I'll also throw in Stade de France and Dublin's Croke Park as thefield is just too large. The viewing experience in these would be awful.


Germany has both the Waldstadion in Frankfurt and the Bayern Munich stadium to host NFL games and both are great as they are both in big cities and near airports with regularly scheduled transatlantic flights. I do not know about how the NFL would do in South Korea but Japan could definitely be a draw. I heard the Japan RFU is planning to build a brand new rugby stadium next to the Tokyo Olympic stadium which would probably be best for the NFL should they have games in Japan. For Australia I would say the new Sydney Football Stadium would be best for the NFL as around 40,000 seats would be ideal and the sight-lines would be great. No need for Berlin as Frankfurt and Munich are already getting games in Germany. Ireland’s best bet for NFL would be the Aviva Stadium as convincing the GAA would be hard. For France Paris have at least two rugby stadiums which would work out even if they have a smaller capacity although ether the Stade de France and Park de Princes could be used for a larger capacity even though both grounds do not really have good sight-lines.


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## chicagobuildingnerd1833 (Sep 23, 2021)

The new Sydney Football Stadium looks like a good option for the NFL should they want to play in Australia. The capacity (42,500) and sightlines seem good enough for an optimal experience for the NFL.


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## Juanpabloangel (Jun 7, 2015)

Elwin94 said:


> France: Stade De France
> Germany: Berlin Olympiastadion/Allianz Arena/Red Bull Arena (Once it expand) / Signal Iduna Park (Will look awesome with the Yellow Wall Stand)
> Spain: Wanda Metropolitano/Santiago Bernabeu/Camp Nou
> Brazil: Maracana Stadium
> ...


You could add in Optus stadium in Perth which is brand new and has the right capacity and assuredly the right level of corporate facilities, the “roster” for AFL is bigger than some sports so I imagine the facilities may be big enough for the multiple teams in an American football team.


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## Juanpabloangel (Jun 7, 2015)

Japan would be a safer bet logistically and it is in the right Timezone generally for anyone from other Asian countries who want to watch the game in person or otherwise.

Germany has a huge American football fan base as evidenced also by the crowds it would get in NFL Europe and has fabulous stadiums. I guess Spurs have bet large by making their stadium work for NFL and Wembley needs events and it is the largest available stadium in Europe.

i guess if you were having a new team London would be the best option, but Germany would be very close behind.

just as a matter of interest, how many states of the USA are not able to field an NFL team? Would it not be better if extra games were added into cities that may not have enough support or owner dollars but would love to see their local sport? I know Hawaii has the pro bowl but places like that. Including previously Las Vegas etc.


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

Juanpabloangel said:


> just as a matter of interest, how many states of the USA are not able to field an NFL team? Would it not be better if extra games were added into cities that may not have enough support or owner dollars but would love to see their local sport? I know Hawaii has the pro bowl but places like that. Including previously Las Vegas etc.


Most US states don't have an NFL team. All have a university team though, who are often as popular as their NFL counterparts. Hosting NFL games in states that don't have a team is rather pointless, achieves nothing, and fails to spread the game outside US borders which is what this extra game is all about.


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## HoldenV8 (Jul 18, 2005)

chicagobuildingnerd1833 said:


> The new Sydney Football Stadium looks like a good option for the NFL should they want to play in Australia. The capacity (42,500) and sightlines seem good enough for an optimal experience for the NFL.


Two major games played in Australia have been at Stadium Australia. The first was the 1999 American bowl when the San Diego Chargers, with Aussie punter Darren Bennett, played the Denver Broncos. Denver won 20–17 in front of 73,811. The second was the opening game of the 2016 NCAA Div.1 FBS Football Season between the California Golden Bears and the Hawaii Rainbow Warriors. 61,247 saw California win 51–31.

You would find that any NFL game played in Australia would probably be played either at the 100,024 capacity MCG, or the more suitable 83,500 capacity Accor Stadium (Stadium Australia). The new SFS might be deemed too small.


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## chicagobuildingnerd1833 (Sep 23, 2021)

HoldenV8 said:


> Two major games played in Australia have been at Stadium Australia. The first was the 1999 American bowl when the San Diego Chargers, with Aussie punter Darren Bennett, played the Denver Broncos. Denver won 20–17 in front of 73,811. The second was the opening game of the 2016 NCAA Div.1 FBS Football Season between the California Golden Bears and the Hawaii Rainbow Warriors. 61,247 saw California win 51–31.
> 
> You would find that any NFL game played in Australia would probably be played either at the 100,024 capacity MCG, or the more suitable 83,500 capacity Accor Stadium (Stadium Australia). The new SFS might be deemed too small.


The Waldstadion in Frankfurt only holds 48,000 assuming the NFL converts it into an all seater (with standing it is around 51,000) and is scheduled to host NFL games. I personally think the Sydney Football Stadium would be better than the Stadium Australia because the NFL would have it much easier to sell out and given Australia’s love for Aussie rules and rugby league (two sports similar to American football), Australia would have a harder time getting seats than Germany (soccer obsessed), Mexico (loves soccer and baseball) and the UK (loves soccer the most but interested in cricket and rugby union/league as well).


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## Juanpabloangel (Jun 7, 2015)

Ramanaramana said:


> Most US states don't have an NFL team. All have a university team though, who are often as popular as their NFL counterparts. Hosting NFL games in states that don't have a team is rather pointless, achieves nothing, and fails to spread the game outside US borders which is what this extra game is all about.


the National football league but not many in the nation can see it. I would expect cities would bid for the rights to a single game whether they are international or national given the opportunity!


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## chicagobuildingnerd1833 (Sep 23, 2021)

Juanpabloangel said:


> the National football league but not many in the nation can see it. I would expect cities would bid for the rights to a single game whether they are international or national given the opportunity!


Within the United States I think the best bet for the NFL to host something in a market without a team is the Pro Bowl. The Super Bowl requires a host market has an NFL team and the Pro Bowl would work perfectly for an experimental event. They used to play the Pro Bowl a lot in Hawaii so I do not see the problem with them hosting it in a market with no NFL team.


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

chicagobuildingnerd1833 said:


> The Waldstadion in Frankfurt only holds 48,000 assuming the NFL converts it into an all seater (with standing it is around 51,000) and is scheduled to host NFL games. I personally think the Sydney Football Stadium would be better than the Stadium Australia because the NFL would have it much easier to sell out and given Australia’s love for Aussie rules and rugby league (two sports similar to American football), Australia would have a harder time getting seats than Germany (soccer obsessed), Mexico (loves soccer and baseball) and the UK (loves soccer the most but interested in cricket and rugby union/league as well).


There's no issue of selling out an NFL game in Australia, be it Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Adelaide or Brisbane. MCG would sell out, ANZ would sell out, so SFS's only point of difference is that it would be the most modern stadium in Australia by virtue of being built most recently.

The popularity of RL and AFL means nothing in relation to NFL. American football looks a lot like League/Union, so why aren't the rugby codes a big deal in the US? Because that's not how these things work. NFL has a niche following in Australia, but the event of an NFL match taking place in Australia would sell itself no dramas. MCG would be 90,000+, ANZ would be 75,000+ easy.



Juanpabloangel said:


> the National football league but not many in the nation can see it. I would expect cities would bid for the rights to a single game whether they are international or national given the opportunity!


The idea behind the extra fixtures is try and build audiences in places where the sport isn’t popular. That’s not the case in South Dakota, so why bother preaching to the converted? It's like Chelsea taking a game to Bristol because they don't have top flight football. Just doesn't make any sense.


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## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

Juanpabloangel said:


> You could add in Optus stadium in Perth which is brand new and has the right capacity and assuredly the right level of corporate facilities, the “roster” for AFL is bigger than some sports so I imagine the facilities may be big enough for the multiple teams in an American football team.


Except for the fact that Perth is the 4th city in a small/mid sized country. 
Plus, even with Optus Stadium having a raised ground tier above the playing surface, the field is 165m long by 140m wide. Thats a lot of atmosphere killing area between the fence and a *110m/49m American Football field.


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## chicagobuildingnerd1833 (Sep 23, 2021)

Ramanaramana said:


> There's no issue of selling out an NFL game in Australia, be it Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Adelaide or Brisbane. MCG would sell out, ANZ would sell out, so SFS's only point of difference is that it would be the most modern stadium in Australia by virtue of being built most recently.
> 
> The popularity of RL and AFL means nothing in relation to NFL. American football looks a lot like League/Union, so why aren't the rugby codes a big deal in the US? Because that's not how these things work. NFL has a niche following in Australia, but the event of an NFL match taking place in Australia would sell itself no dramas. MCG would be 90,000+, ANZ would be 75,000+ easy.


I guess you understand the sports scene in Australia more than me since you are from there and I’m from the US. However, I think playing in a smaller stadium like the Sydney Football Stadium will put less pressure when it comes to selling out games. The NFL already made a deal with the Waldstadion in Frankfurt so I know the NFL is okay with playing games in smaller stadiums.


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

chicagobuildingnerd1833 said:


> I guess you understand the sports scene in Australia more than me since you are from there and I’m from the US. However, I think playing in a smaller stadium like the Sydney Football Stadium will put less pressure when it comes to selling out games. The NFL already made a deal with the Waldstadion in Frankfurt so I know the NFL is okay with playing games in smaller stadiums.


We know that Dortmund was approached but rejected it. That only leaves Berlin OS among the 60,000+ stadiums when you convert standing, as Bayern is in. 

Frankfurt was one of the best supported teams in the NFL Europa, and is Germany's financial hub. 

I think these factors are what made Frankfurt’s smaller capacity palatable. 

Believe me when I say a home and away NFL fixture in Australia would sellout in no time at all. MCG/ANZ wouldn’t be a problem, and I’d expect tickets to sell out in a few days. It would be a big deal. Everyone knows that the NFL is a big deal in America, even if they don’t necessarily follow it.

There are still plenty NFL fans that would snap up tickets, but even if that weren’t the case this country is full of theatregoers, especially those that attend events perceived as high profile, and they gladly pay dear prices for it so gate takings would be lucrative. It would also air on Channel 7 which currently has NFL rights I reckon which is one of the two major commercial networks here. In summary, it would be a big event both in the stadium and in TV. 

It’s inevitable we’ll host one eventually. Really a no-brainer. What works against us is that we’re smaller than Texas, so Europe is getting all the attention.


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## chicagobuildingnerd1833 (Sep 23, 2021)

Ramanaramana said:


> We know that Dortmund was approached but rejected it. That only leaves Berlin OS among the 60,000+ stadiums when you convert standing, as Bayern is in.
> 
> Frankfurt was one of the best supported teams in the NFL Europa, and is Germany's financial hub.
> 
> ...


Guess Stadium Australia it is then. I would rule out the G because of how big the playing surface is with no retractable seating like Stadium Australia or the Docklands.


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## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

If you ignore the fact the Melbourne's MCG and Docklands both are Ovals which is a major negative on the sightlines of sports play on a rectangle. There's also the issue of both stadiums ground tiers not only meeting pitch level at the front row, but both ground tiers have a very shallow rake of 12 degrees. 
To see over the top of sideline personal of an NFL game, you'd probably lose ⅔ of the ground tier of the MCG, and the whole ground tier of Docklands (regardless of movable seating segments).

In this hypothetical, I agree that out of Australian stadiums, the new SFS would suit the sightlines requirements of American Football best. Brisbane's Suncorp Stadium would be second best but you'd still lose a few ground tier seating rows. That capacity drop would see it below 50000, which by then it's harder to justify on capacity alone to choose Brisbane over Sydney.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Since the great majority of revenues come from non-gameday sources the size and shape of the stadium may be of relatively less importance. Sticking with world brand cities (Sydney and Melbourne) seems like the best bet. 

The NFL doesn't plan to locate a team in Australia (or anywhere else outside the US) for the time being, so the point is to get people interested in the sport and to use new media to watch it from their homes, bars, etc. There will be the occasional local match combined with a dedicated presence which will focus on local events, promotions, developing sponsors, etc.


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

chicagobuildingnerd1833 said:


> Guess Stadium Australia it is then. I would rule out the G because of how big the playing surface is with no retractable seating like Stadium Australia or the Docklands.


I agree ANZ is best option, but Victoria is very aggressive when it comes to events. It's why, despite Sydney being the more recognisable name that people associate with Australia, the Australian Open and Grand Prix are both held in Melbourne. It would come down to a bidding war between Victorian and NSW governments, so I wouldn't rule out MCG. 

Filling the MCG is also seen more of an accomplishment than ANZ by virtue of its size. European football clubs filling ANZ never got the same attention as when Liverpool had 95,000 at MCG.


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## chicagobuildingnerd1833 (Sep 23, 2021)

Ramanaramana said:


> I agree ANZ is best option, but Victoria is very aggressive when it comes to events. It's why, despite Sydney being the more recognisable name that people associate with Australia, the Australian Open and Grand Prix are both held in Melbourne. It would come down to a bidding war between Victorian and NSW governments, so I wouldn't rule out MCG.
> 
> Filling the MCG is also seen more of an accomplishment than ANZ by virtue of its size. European football clubs filling ANZ never got the same attention as when Liverpool had 95,000 at MCG.


I think the NFL is very snobbish about what stadiums they select. Stadium Australia has great sight lines along the players’ bench but is not as good behind the end zones. The G on the other hand is just a big oval with no good sight lines for anything but Aussie rules or cricket. The G is the most historic stadium in Australia and the largest but is everything the NFL does not want. The NFL had the option to play in the Berlin Olympiastadion but turned it down likely because it had a running track.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Ramanaramana said:


> I agree ANZ is best option, but Victoria is very aggressive when it comes to events. It's why, despite Sydney being the more recognisable name that people associate with Australia, the Australian Open and Grand Prix are both held in Melbourne. It would come down to a bidding war between Victorian and NSW governments, so I wouldn't rule out MCG.
> 
> Filling the MCG is also seen more of an accomplishment than ANZ by virtue of its size. European football clubs filling ANZ never got the same attention as when Liverpool had 95,000 at MCG.


I don't think it will come down to a bidding war. The NFL will decide based on their viewership demographic studies unless there is no meaningful difference between cities. 

The LA Rams have been given exclusive rights to develop the Australia and China markets, which indicates the perceived link between them. Since no one else has been given any rights in Asia, it seems that these two countries are the first outposts for the Asian strategy. Australia works well for Korea, Japan and much of China and SE Asia (as well as being a target viewing audience in its own right)..


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

chicagobuildingnerd1833 said:


> I think the NFL is very snobbish about what stadiums they select. Stadium Australia has great sight lines along the players’ bench but is not as good behind the end zones. The G on the other hand is just a big oval with no good sight lines for anything but Aussie rules or cricket. The G is the most historic stadium in Australia and the largest but is everything the NFL does not want. The NFL had the option to play in the Berlin Olympiastadion but turned it down likely because it had a running track.


I agree ANZ would win, I just wouldn't rule out an aggressive bid from Victorian government which might make some difference in consideration.


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

pesto said:


> I don't think it will come down to a bidding war. The NFL will decide based on their viewership demographic studies unless there is no meaningful difference between cities.
> 
> The LA Rams have been given exclusive rights to develop the Australia and China markets, which indicates the perceived link between them. Since no one else has been given any rights in Asia, it seems that these two countries are the first outposts for the Asian strategy. Australia works well for Korea, Japan and much of China and SE Asia (as well as being a





pesto said:


> I don't think it will come down to a bidding war. The NFL will decide based on their viewership demographic studies unless there is no meaningful difference between cities.
> 
> The LA Rams have been given exclusive rights to develop the Australia and China markets, which indicates the perceived link between them. Since no one else has been given any rights in Asia, it seems that these two countries are the first outposts for the Asian strategy. Australia works well for Korea, Japan and much of China and SE Asia (as well as being a target viewing audience in its own right)..


There isn't another country in the world in which the two major cities are as even as Sydney and Melbourne. Population, economy, culture, it's all split down the middle.

It often comes down to which government can provide the best offer. Otherwise there's little difference between the two cities. If anything, Melbourne holds the distinction of being a better sports city. Our downtown sporting precinct and public transport is also superior. But Sydney has the global recognition and rectangular stadiums.

I expect both cities to host in time. It won't be like England where only London gets a look in.


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## chicagobuildingnerd1833 (Sep 23, 2021)

Ramanaramana said:


> There isn't another country in the world in which the two major cities are as even as Sydney and Melbourne. Population, economy, culture, it's all split down the middle.
> 
> It often comes down to which government can provide the best offer. Otherwise there's little difference between the two cities. If anything, Melbourne holds the distinction of being a better sports city. Our downtown sporting precinct and public transport is also superior. But Sydney has the global recognition and rectangular stadiums.
> 
> I expect both cities to host in time. It won't be like England where only London gets a look in.


I understand what you are saying but I do not know if the NFL would want to play at the G given the poor sight lines. I think that the NFL should go with Japan first for the Asia/Pacific region as they have a larger population and have a small but noticeable domestic following of American football. I am aware the NFL is already in China right now but I know absolutely nothing about the sport’s popularity there and I also think it is not a matter of if but when an NFL team has exclusive international home market in Japan. Plus the Saitama Stadium I brought up will likely meet the NFL’s snobbish requirements.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Ramanaramana said:


> There isn't another country in the world in which the two major cities are as even as Sydney and Melbourne. Population, economy, culture, it's all split down the middle.
> 
> It often comes down to which government can provide the best offer. Otherwise there's little difference between the two cities. If anything, Melbourne holds the distinction of being a better sports city. Our downtown sporting precinct and public transport is also superior. But Sydney has the global recognition and rectangular stadiums.
> 
> I expect both cities to host in time. It won't be like England where only London gets a look in.


Sounds very reasonable. I assume Kroenke will also do demographics in China, Japan and Korea and see which city would attract more viewers. But both over time seems inevitable.


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## chicagobuildingnerd1833 (Sep 23, 2021)

Can we see a foreign Super Bowl. England: Is Tottenham Hotspur Stadium A Future Super Bowl Site?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

chicagobuildingnerd1833 said:


> Can we see a foreign Super Bowl. England: Is Tottenham Hotspur Stadium A Future Super Bowl Site?


I wouldn't expect it soon unless there is a permanent team in London. It's been mentioned that team owners want to keep the revenues for league members.


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## chicagobuildingnerd1833 (Sep 23, 2021)

pesto said:


> I wouldn't expect it soon unless there is a permanent team in London. It's been mentioned that team owners want to keep the revenues for league members.


Agree the idea is far fetched. The NFL requires a Super Bowl host market to have an NFL team based there. The Tottenham Hotspur Stadium bid for the Super Bowl is as dead on arrival as Russia’s recent Euro bid.


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## HB07 (Jul 9, 2014)

Why not the Mohamed V Stadium in Casablanca, Morocco ? The crowd is really crazy there


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## chicagobuildingnerd1833 (Sep 23, 2021)

HB07 said:


> Why not the Mohamed V Stadium in Casablanca, Morocco ? The crowd is really crazy there


I do not think the NFL will be popular in Morocco. You can certainly imagine what a game there will be like but they are very much not on the league’s radar.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

chicagobuildingnerd1833 said:


> I do not think the NFL will be popular in Morocco. You can certainly imagine what a game there will be like but they are very much not on the league’s radar.


Your are right: the NFL would generally not go to a location where they don't have a plan for establishing a long-term operation. The regions where their focus is directed are China, Australia, Mexico, Brazil and W. Europe. 

But you said "stadiums that COULD host" an NFL game, so you open up possibilities almost anywhere.


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## Calvin W (Nov 5, 2005)

NFL in Australia would never succeed. Australia love their footy and rugby too much to embrace the NFL. It is a fringe player in the sport world down there.


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

Calvin W said:


> NFL in Australia would never succeed. Australia love their footy and rugby too much to embrace the NFL. It is a fringe player in the sport world down there.


What do you mean by succeed?

Could gridiron sustain a domestic professional league with broadcast deals, strong attendances and media coverage? Of course not. But that wouldn't be point of NFL matches in Australia.

Would the NFL sell out ANZ or MCG in a targeted approach similar to London? Absolutely, and in fact that would be the expectation.

They have no trouble selling out stadiums in London despite the NFL being niche in the UK too. Why would Australia be any different? MLB is even more niche in the UK, and it sold out its games.

The aim of any NFL matches held in Australia would be to sell out large stadiums, and to broaden the awareness of the sport in the country. It wouldn't be to overtake the NRL or AFL by hosting one or two matches a year lol.

If we use London as a barometer, then NFL in Sydney and Melbourne would 100% succeed. Scarcity + novelty/experience + American culture + recognisable sporting brand + small but dedicated fanbase + wealthy population would see these events sell 80,000+ tickets in a few days, if not hours. No question about it.


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## chicagobuildingnerd1833 (Sep 23, 2021)

I think Europe is all covered for NFL games. Frankfurt, Munich and two stadiums in London seems like enough for Europe. LATAM only has Mexico City for games but I think that playing a game at the Maracana in Rio could be a good next step if they want to expand their LATAM influence. I do think Asia-Pacific would be the best for the next NFL international game. China and Australia are the most talked about destinations but I think Japan would be best as they have a small but noticeable following of American football and when American leagues come to Japan they always do well there.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Calvin W said:


> NFL in Australia would never succeed. Australia love their footy and rugby too much to embrace the NFL. It is a fringe player in the sport world down there.





https://www.gq.com.au/fitness/sport/nfl-sydney-australia-2024/news-story/1255d48541c88467e21ca480473c5783#:~:text=A%20new%20NFL%20office%20is,iconic%20Dallas%20Cowboys%20in%20Sydney


.

That's today; NFL is worried about 20 years from now. The Rams now have an office in Sydney and rumor is they plan to host the Rams vs. Dallas there in 2 years. Melbourne is apparently talking about getting games there as well so as not to let Sydney get ahead.


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

In 20 years’ time, it will still be behind all the other sports, somewhere between 10th and 13th I’d hazard. Sporting preferences are nigh on impossible to change, especially when it comes to ‘foreign’ sports, and most population growth in Australia comes from Asia, not USA, which means NFL will continue to be very niche, especially as no one plays the sport here.

The NFL can make money in Australia as it does in Europe. It’s not going to make a dent in the sporting landscape of either but clearly that’s not the aim, because they don’t support grassroots and local leagues, which is the foundation all major sports are built on. They want to make money and raise awareness of the NFL brand. That’s very achieveable, and it’s a big coup to get regular season NFL games…..they’d sell out very quickly….. but don’t expect it to turn the NFL into a national obsession.

Unlike Canada or Mexico who benefit from border proximity and timezone, the worst thing about the NFL from our point of view is that it hosts all its games on Sunday afternoons to evenings in the USA. It couldn’t be more of a disadvantage to growing the game in Australia if it tried, as it means 90% of matches air between 3am and 2pm on a Monday, when no one is watching television. The Thursday night game is on Friday morning, which is the same problem. Watching gridiron in Australia, you’re better off becoming a CFB fan as at least those games air on Sundays!

Whatever long game you think they’re playing, other sports are too, and many do it better. Basketball, specifically the NBA, is a phenom in Australia in a way that NFL will never be. It regularly ranks high on most searched sports, people play it everywhere casually and it’s one of the highest participation sports, stars are extremely well known, and it simply permeates the culture in a way no other American sports can even approach.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Ramanaramana said:


> In 20 years’ time, it will still be behind all the other sports, somewhere between 10th and 13th I’d hazard. Sporting preferences are nigh on impossible to change, especially when it comes to ‘foreign’ sports, and most population growth in Australia comes from Asia, not USA, which means NFL will continue to be very niche, especially as no one plays the sport here.
> 
> The NFL can make money in Australia as it does in Europe. It’s not going to make a dent in the sporting landscape of either but clearly that’s not the aim, because they don’t support grassroots and local leagues, which is the foundation all major sports are built on. They want to make money and raise awareness of the NFL brand. That’s very achieveable, and it’s a big coup to get regular season NFL games…..they’d sell out very quickly….. but don’t expect it to turn the NFL into a national obsession.
> 
> ...


I think that's generally right. But you don't need to dominate a country to get rich. Doing pretty well with the wealthier1/4 of the people in 40 countries will be good enough.

Football has fewer games and aims at a somewhat wealthier, business, tech and brand-oriented crowd at the stadium and the rest watching via media. China, Korea, Japan are in the same time zones as Australia and have huge, well-to-do diasporas in the US. Putting NFL games in Sydney and Melbourne works as part of a strategy to penetrate those markets as well as Australia, where apparently promoters are offering deals too good to pass up..


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

I've never gotten the sense that NFL owners care about growing the sport internationally, but rather growing the NFL brand and making money from that in the form of ticket sales, sponsorships, merchandise, and whatever growth in broadcasting or take-up of GamePass that leads to. I suspect that NFL owners realise that growing the grassroots is extremely difficult as it's an expensive and complicated sport to play, making it very difficult to get off the ground in countries where it doesn't have cultural roots. 

They probably figure funding grassroots in other countries is a poor use of resources as they suspect it won't lead to a situation like basketball because that sport is very easy to play by yourself, with two people, 5v5, and you can find hoops everywhere. AF is impossible to play properly unless it's highly organised, and many sports compete for the same fields here. Unless you have that baseline population that is familiar with the game, getting any substantial take-up is hard going.

People here have awareness of the sport, not least due to influence of American culture, and there is an avid following, similar to the UK or Germany in relative terms. It would be a very successful event that you could do every year and would do just as well as London. And though Australia is less populated than Texas, we share a timezone with south, southeast and east Asia. I'm certain that's going to see the country host regular season games, rather than just pre-season. 

The stadiums however are not on par with what Europe can offer. Sydney/ANZ is the only real option where the NFL would be satisfied with capacity and facilities and it would look good on television. MCG in Melbourne would get 90-100,000 people I suspect but it's a cricket stadium, so you wouldn't see any of the crowd unless the cameras panned to it, which might be a negative from a branding perspective. 

I already mentioned why I think a regular season game will be held. But another factor is that the AFL and NRL finish their seasons in September, meaning anything from October onwards, which is still early in the NFL season, gives free rein over stadium availability, puts a spotlight on the event as cricket season isn't yet in full flight, and it's springtime, meaning weather should be very good, sunny between 15 and 23 degrees. 

August is a congested sporting period, the stadiums are used frequently meaning potential for bad pitches, and it's winter, with all its weather unpredictability. A rumoured August pre-season game can test the water if they like, but like London I don't think it will be long before they host the real thing.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Ramanaramana said:


> I've never gotten the sense that NFL owners care about growing the sport internationally, but rather growing the NFL brand and making money from that in the form of ticket sales, sponsorships, merchandise, and whatever growth in broadcasting or take-up of GamePass that leads to. I suspect that NFL owners realise that growing the grassroots is extremely difficult as it's an expensive and complicated sport to play, making it very difficult to get off the ground in countries where it doesn't have cultural roots.
> 
> They probably figure funding grassroots in other countries is a poor use of resources as they suspect it won't lead to a situation like basketball because that sport is very easy to play by yourself, with two people, 5v5, and you can find hoops everywhere. AF is impossible to play properly unless it's highly organised, and many sports compete for the same fields here. Unless you have that baseline population that is familiar with the game, getting any substantial take-up is hard going.
> 
> ...


Again, sounds very reasonable. The NFL has focused on the UK (London), Germany, Spain, Brazil, Mexico, China and now has added Australia, apparently in response to local requests. 

London was selected partly because of its visibility in Europe and the Commonwealth. It's not hard to imagine that Australia is viewed as "paying for itself" while providing an additional tool for accessing the major E. Asian countries.


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## alan_jose_santana (Dec 31, 2021)

Talking about brazilian stadiums:
Maracanã / Rio de Janeiro (78.000) *
Estádio Nacional / Brasília (70.000)*
Castelão / Fortaleza (67.000)*
Mineirão / Belo Horizonte (62.500)
Arena do Grêmio / Porto Alegre (55/60.000)
Those are the stadiums above 55.000 spectators that would be able to host some games. Some with 40k+ (Neo Química Arena, Allianz Parque and Arena da Baixada) are for sure able to host some matches but they lack capacity (and an NFL match in Brazil would atract a lot of public)
The stadiums with the * need pitch improvement. Specially Maracanã and Castelão that are a iminent risk of injury to anyone who plays in these grounds


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## chicagobuildingnerd1833 (Sep 23, 2021)

alan_jose_santana said:


> Talking about brazilian stadiums:
> Maracanã / Rio de Janeiro (78.000) *
> Estádio Nacional / Brasília (70.000)*
> Castelão / Fortaleza (67.000)*
> ...


I already said earlier in this thread I would like to see the NFL come to the Maracana. It would make perfect sense for the most popular sports league in the US to make a stop at one of the world's most iconic stadiums. It is interesting that you came up with other possible locations in Brazil for the NFL. As for the pitch improvement, if they can get it good enough for the World Cup, Olympics and Copa America then they can easily make the pitch NFL quality.


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

It would have to be Maracana due to no obvious options in Sao Paulo. Sao Paulo would be ideal, but Corinthians & Palmeiras grounds aren't of requisite capacity, and in the case of SPFC not good enough.

Sao Paulo and Rio are the only likely options. Porto Alegre/Belo Horizonte/Brasilia/Fortaleza wouldn't get a look in. With all due respect it would be like the NFL playing its UK games in Newcastle. Big cities yes but Brazil's sporting culture, population and economy is concentrated on Sao Paulo/Rio, and specifically Sao Paulo, which is the largest and richest city in Latin America by a long stretch. Rio is the only appropriate fallback option AFAIC.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

The Dolphins were given local exploitation rights, so I assume they would be one of the teams. And there seems to be no reason from a PR point of view NOT to use Rio.


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## Juanpabloangel (Jun 7, 2015)

I guess a lot of the infrastructure needed to host in a standard football stadium in Brazil might be complicated also as the areas for the players will likely be low capacity and standard compared to other places, Brazil is a place that has built new stadiums or significantly refurbed, but probably not with the NFL and its multiple teams within a team in mind.


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## Juanpabloangel (Jun 7, 2015)

Walbanger said:


> Except for the fact that Perth is the 4th city in a small/mid sized country.
> Plus, even with Optus Stadium having a raised ground tier above the playing surface, the field is 165m long by 140m wide. Thats a lot of atmosphere killing area between the fence and a *110m/49m American Football field.


having had the opportunity to see my own football team play there in our off season, I see your point, it’s pretty but pretty dysfunctional for American football and football.


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

Naturally none have been built with hosting NFL in mind, that would be idiotic. But Maracana's changing rooms are huge from what I've seen.


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## alan_jose_santana (Dec 31, 2021)

Those stadiums I've mentioned were built in less than ten years and most of them (except Grêmio stadium) hosted matches (semi finals and quarter finals, apart Maracanã which hosted the final), so I guedd in that aspect they would be easily able to host an NFL match
However, I agree with Ten Hag. In an cenario which a NFL match would come to Brazil, SP and Rio must be the obvious choices (even so that a match in Mineirão for exame would certanily sold out)


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## chicagobuildingnerd1833 (Sep 23, 2021)

@alan_jose_santana did a terrific job listing the best stadiums the NFL could use in Brazil. Also @Ramanaramana (aka Ten Hag) and a few other resident Aussies did a decent job talking about what stadiums would be best in Australia for the NFL. Anyone from any other country suggest possible stadiums in their country for the NFL. Perhaps @RyukyuRhymer could come up with a decent list of Japanese stadiums for the NFL to use.


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