# Beijing Olympics



## Harkeb (Oct 12, 2004)

I know this should be in under Skybar, but the issue needs to be raised...

Its strange- perhaps not, that discussion threads and posts on the Beijing Olympics Games and criticism of it, are almost immediately closed and or just simply deleted. 
Are we being censored? Does this site gets sposnsorships from the chinese government? 
This ironic seeing that our chief moderator is from The Netherlands- a country that value freedom of speech greatly. Just asking :dunno:


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## TEBC (Dec 26, 2004)

yes, they did the same with my post!! why people dont want to discuss this?? is an important issue


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## snow is red (May 7, 2007)

I guess it is not any censorship or anything, if you just type in the search box "Beijing Olympics" I bet you will see alot of threads, things always end up in turmoil and chaos with insult throwing at one another in any political Beijing Olympics threads, so maybe you understand why now.


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

SSC has to be careful with China topics otherwise the site will be banned in China.


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## Andrew (Sep 11, 2002)

This issue is being discussed in multiple threads all across the boards, including in the Mainland China subforum.


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## oliver999 (Aug 4, 2006)

i dont know chinese close any forum, even those chinese forum critics goverment siverly. of course, except for porn forum.


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## LMCA1990 (Jun 18, 2005)

:lol: well, i see it as a valid topic. maybe it's true; we're being careful so that our chinese forumers continue to have access to it instead of the government banning it.


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## Alphaville (Nov 28, 2007)

I don't see why citizens of nations with free speech should have to 'tread lightly'. It's an issue of human rights, people have a right to discuss it. End of story.


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## gladisimo (Dec 11, 2006)

SSC tends to close all sorts of threads that get too out of hand with attacks. 

This is true not only of China and the Olympics, but of many other topics, you'd know about this if you ever paid attention and perhaps used a little bit of your brain to think.

SSC is not a political forum, and I dunno about the possibility of it being banned in China, but the powers that be try to discourage the site from being bloated and sidetracked with things not having to do with skyscrapers.


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## bonivison (Jan 17, 2007)

Everything error is because of China
China is devilized by Western media


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## Alphaville (Nov 28, 2007)

bonivison said:


> Everything error is because of China
> China is devilized by Western media


Have you actually stopped and considered why the Chinese Government (not people) are being "devilised" by Western media?

Generally the same media that "devilised" apartheid South Africa and currently is to Zimbabwe: *blatant human rights abuses.* Even in my own country, Australia, where past treatment of the First Australians gets a huge amount of media attention, generally people can separate themselves from their Government. That's the essence of a democracy. 

I've been to China -- I love the place but things are not peachy keen as people like you and propaganda machines would like to depict.


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## Alphaville (Nov 28, 2007)

gladisimo said:


> SSC tends to close all sorts of threads that get too out of hand with attacks.
> 
> This is true not only of China and the Olympics, but of many other topics, you'd know about this if you ever paid attention and perhaps used a little bit of your brain to think.
> 
> SSC is not a political forum, and I dunno about the possibility of it being banned in China, but the powers that be try to discourage the site from being bloated and sidetracked with things not having to do with skyscrapers.


There are off-topic forums specifically for the purpose. "Perhaps if you used a little bit of your brain to think" --- you would have remembered that.


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## Bandit (Dec 6, 2006)

You've got to be kidding if you think Western countries are free. TV personality Bill Maher was eventually fired from ABC television because he dared to say that the terrorists of 9-11 weren't dumb. Or how then in Los Angeles when your car was damaged if you didn't display a US flag. Despite the British crying about democracy in Hong Kong, they never gave the people of Hong Kong the right to elect their own governor ever. What do you call that? It's called a foreign occupied dictatorship.

What do you think the Chinese will learn if the internet wasn't censored? The governement also censors anti-Western sites. So that would mean the Chinese would learn how much Westerners hate them for having an economy that is not under the West's control. You wouldn't see all those positive attitudes towards Westerners in polls taken by the West in China anymore. The Chinese aren't an abused girlfriend or wife of the West. Don't think you can trick them into believing abuse is all about love. Maybe you're going to make the same mistake as in Iraq. You bomb them and kill their family members then you think the Iraqis will greet you with hugs and kisses and throw roses afterwards.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

I predict that this thread will be locked. Oh, the irony. :lol:


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## Alex Pox (Jan 9, 2005)

bonivison said:


> Everything error is because of China
> China is devilized by Western media


I think a fight is going to start from this post. 
I'm not saying whether this post is right or wrong. I think the reason why these threads got closed is that this kind of topic can easily start an argument and it often gets ugly in the end. 
I don't think we are being careful of being banned by the Chinese government or whatsoever. It doesn't make any sense.


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## gladisimo (Dec 11, 2006)

Alphaville said:


> There are off-topic forums specifically for the purpose. "Perhaps if you used a little bit of your brain to think" --- you would have remembered that.


There are other rules regarding what is allowable and what is not. Asking why threads are banned, for example, is outright unacceptable, same as asking for a person to be banned/unbanned. Stop being a whino and go talk about stuff like this in a political forum. 

Sometimes I can't believe the morons in this forum. 

It's not as though the mods just ban random things. And don't single out a single piece of information from my thread, I included other reasons for the threads being banned too. 

Like I said, this is a skyscraper forum, not a place for political debate, go read the skybar rules, and be a little observant of threads that have been closed historically. 

If you really can't figure it out, go PM a mod, stop making threads asking why threads are closed.

Oh, and by the way, thinking and remembering are not the same things, so don't quote things and try to make a point, especially when you come out an idiot.


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## gladisimo (Dec 11, 2006)

10ROT said:


> I predict that this thread will be locked. Oh, the irony. :lol:


I love it most when smart forumers know a thread is gonna get locked, and the admin/mod quote them, and say something like "oh my god, you CAN predict the future!"

:lol:


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

Wow, it's still around. That even astounded me!


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## kix111 (Jun 14, 2007)

all media's fault haha XD

media on both side hide a lot of truth


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## bonivison (Jan 17, 2007)

Chinese government is not perfect
But it need administrate 1.3 billion people
It is not easy!!!
Most of Chinese understand our government
Though it is not always right
But we will unite around it!


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## CongTuSaiGon (Dec 31, 2006)

This is a game of shame.


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## Alex Pox (Jan 9, 2005)

kix111 said:


> all media's fault haha XD
> 
> media on both side hide a lot of truth


This is the first non-bias statement i've ever heard in ages! 
Good on ya~


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## duskdawn (May 13, 2006)

bonivison said:


> Chinese government is not perfect
> But it need administrate 1.3 billion people
> It is not easy!!!
> Most of Chinese understand our government
> ...


In this Tibet's case, Chinese gov't did nothing wrong and they had my full respect.


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## Bandit (Dec 6, 2006)

CongTuSaiGon said:


> This is a game of shame.


Petty nationalistic envy brings out that sentiment.


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## sylodon (Sep 5, 2004)

del


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## Bandit (Dec 6, 2006)

Another one. What did I tell you?:lol:


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## chewys (Feb 4, 2004)

If the Beijing Olympic is to be boycotted, should the London Olympic be given the same treatment ?

We know the UK's complicity in the illegal invasion of Iraq ? This illegal invasion caused the death of about 1 million Iraqis, the destruction of a country, the ruining of lives of at least 5 million people who become refugees in their own country. Also, UK was a coloniser that has done a lot of damage, killing and plundering. They have looted many contries national treasures and are still keeping them in their own museum. 

I'd say boycott London too!

And what about US ? Should this country that has yet to learn to stop war mongering be allowed the privelage of holding any future Olympic games. Would you reaction be as shrill if the country hosting the Olmpic is USA ?
Afterall the US was not only involved in Iraq, but was involved in large scale killings in Vietnam, as well as being implicated in the progrom that took place in Chile, Indonesia, Palestine just to name a few places.
I'd say no more Olympic for US in the future!

Infact, what is Olympic but a platform for one to act self-rigteously. Forget about the Olympic Spirit, for it is only an ideal fit for ancient Greeks !


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## UD2 (Jan 21, 2006)

whatever, this tread is pointless anyways. 

Good luck Beijing on your Olympics. The world supports you and all your people.


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## oliver999 (Aug 4, 2006)

CongTuSaiGon said:


> This is a game of shame.


wanna another vietnam vs china war?:lol:


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## Harkeb (Oct 12, 2004)

The thread on Beijing Olympic developments in SKYBAR has- as predicted- being closed eventhough relevant news have been posted, in a non provocative way. 
Tubeman, I hope you feel happy for closing the thread because YOU are 'sick of hearing about it'!

If these news cannot be posted and discussed in Skybar, where the hell should it be discussed? To all those 'sick and tired' of reading about China's abuse of power and human rights, don't read. You are obviously complacent to the fact that many people in China are sick and dead because the world close its eyes to the abuse going on there. 

------------------------------------------
Tendulkar opts out of Olympic torch relay 


(CNN) -- India cricket star Sachin Tendulkar has pulled out of the Olympic torch relay in New Delhi, just a day before the event.


Tendulkar did not want to risk his groin injury ahead of the start of the IPL.

Tendulkar said on Wednesday that a groin injury would prevent him taking part.

"I received an invitation from Indian Olympic Association to run with the Olympic torch. I am honored at being invited, but I'll not be able to participate in the relay," Tendulkar told the Associated Press, adding that he withdrew on the advice of his physiotherapist.

He is the second high profile Indian sportsman to pull out of the torch relay.

The captain of the national football team, Bhaichung Bhutia, withdrew earlier this month, citing his support of Tibetan groups protesting against China's crackdown on their homeland.

Tendulkar, 34, needs just 172 more runs to become the highest run-scorer in Test cricket, but was forced to miss the last two Tests of the recent three-match series against South Africa due to his groin injury.

But he is scheduled to lead the Mumbai franchise in the Indian Premier League, a lucrative Twenty20 competition which begins later this week.

Massive security arrangements have been made for the torch relay in India and the route shortened in the wake of protests in a number of countries over Tibet and human rights issues in


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## megacool (Nov 6, 2006)

here's a essay from my chinese friend. some points i could not understand plenary, but i think it's worth to dart a look at. 

When we were seen as "Sick Men from East Asia", we were called The Peril. 
When we strived to get stronger, we are called The Threat. 

When we closed our doors to the world, you forced them open with drugs and guns. 
When we finally embraced Free Trade, you blame us for taking away your jobs. 

When we were falling apart, you marched in your troops and robbed us blind. 
When we put the broken pieces back together again, "Free Tibet" you screamed, it was an invasion! 

So, we tried Communism, you hated us for being Communists. 
Then we learned from Capitalism, you hated us for being Capitalists. 

When we had a billion people, you said "The planet is starving." 
So we tried to limit our population, you said it was Human Rights Abuse. 

When we were poor, you think we are dogs. 
When we loan you cash, you blame us for your debts. 

When we build our industries, you blame us for global warming. 
When we sell you goods you can afford, you blame us for dumping inferior products. 

When we buy oil, you called that exploitation and assisting genocide. 
When you fight for oil, you called that Liberation of Its People. 

When we were lost in chaos and rampage, you wanted Rules of Law for us. 
When we uphold our law and order against violence, you called that Violating Human Rights. 

When we were silent, you said we have No Free Speech. 
When we are NOW silent no more, you say we are merely "Brainwashed". 

"Why do you hate us so much?" We asked. 
"No" You answered, "We don't hate you." 
Truth is we really don't hate you either, but do you understand us? 
"Of course we do" You said, "We have BBC, CNN and AFPs." 
So we ask you now "What do you really know and want from us?" 
And "Why do you find it SO hard to accept us?"


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## Red flag's egg (May 6, 2007)

megacool said:


> here's a essay from my chinese friend. some points i could not understand plenary, but i think it's worth to dart a look at.
> 
> When we were seen as "Sick Men from East Asia", we were called The Peril.
> When we strived to get stronger, we are called The Threat.
> ...


this is intresting,my conclusion is that both china and western countries should uderstand each other, more communication needed


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## duskdawn (May 13, 2006)

Red flag's egg said:


> both china and western countries should uderstand each other, more communication needed


But the communication is going to be boycotted. :nuts:


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## z0rg (Jan 17, 2003)

Communication sounds too close to communism. Demonization is better, sounds closer to democracy.


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## Harkeb (Oct 12, 2004)

Indian leg of Olympic relay ends
17/04/2008 14:47 - (SA) 

New Delhi - The Indian leg of the global Olympic torch relay ended on Thursday after a short run along a central New Delhi avenue guarded by thousands of police and soldiers, AFP reporters said. 

The scaled-back 2.3km run passed off smoothly, with an estimated 16 000 police and soldiers having thrown up a huge security cordon around the avenue between the presidential palace to India Gate, two of New Delhi's main landmarks. 

Participants in the relay were flanked and guided by track-suited Chinese security guards, and running barely a few metres each. The relay lasted little more than 30 minutes. 

The security personnel by far outnumbered the groups of schoolboys and other select onlookers allowed into the relay zone. 

180 arrests 

Police in New Delhi said they had arrested around 180 Tibetan demonstrators during the day. 

"We have around 170 to 180 people in custody," a senior police official told AFP. 

Tibetan activist groups gave a similar figure on the number of demonstrators taken by police during the day. They said those arrested included a group of around 70 protesters who tried to make a run for the area where the torch relay began. 

An additional 46 Tibetans were also arrested in India's financial capital Mumbai on Thursday as they tried to storm the Chinese consulate, police in the city said. 

Protests have taken place across India, which is home to at least 100 000 Tibetan refugees including exiled spiritual leader the Dalai Lama.


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## staff (Oct 23, 2004)

Why is this thread still open?


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## Harkeb (Oct 12, 2004)

*your friends poem*

To 'Megacool' : You can only so much post your friend's propaganda. Fortunately, not everyone is controlled by the chinese regime. Some of us can actually think for themselves. 

As to why the thread is still open: people should be allowed to air their opposing views. So far, it has been in an orderly fashion.


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## Harkeb (Oct 12, 2004)

Little Hollywood gold for the Olympics 

LOS ANGELES (Fortune) -- On a Saturday afternoon last month, nearly 600 performers from Beijing were featured in a parade down Hollywood Boulevard to promote the upcoming Olympic games. The mayor of Los Angeles, Antonio Villaraigosa was on hand, and the theme was "Beijing welcomes you." Notably absent from the festivities, as far as I could tell, was the one thing you'd expect from a parade alongside the walk of fame: celebs. Indeed, the event itself went off with very little notice - I read about it in the Chinese press, but found no mention of it in the Los Angeles Times.

It's a small thing, but a reminder that Hollywood's relationship with the Olympics has gone from lukewarm to pretty much non-existent. It's a statement both about Hollywood and China, two of the most powerful (albeit in a very different way) forces in the 21st century, and, additionally, a comment on how the games always end up being politicized, regardless of who's hosting. Beijing, of course, is determined to stage a competition that the world will never forget - complete with gleaming new facilities, gala entertainment, and even customized weather. And why not? China is ascendant, and this is a great moment to show off its burgeoning economic might.

It first became clear in January that America's close and complicated relationship with China might develop some cracks under the glare of the stadium lights when Stephen Spielberg resigned as an artistic adviser to the summer games because of China's economic, political and military ties to the Sudan. Spielberg had lobbied the Chinese government to do more to do more to curb Sudan's attacks in Darfur. Chinese officials responded that it was unreasonable and irresponsible to assign them blame for Sudan's internal politics - although they did subsequently endorse a greater UN peacekeeping force in the region.

Since then, protests against the games over this and other human rights issues have risen to a low boil - led mainly by images of Chinese security guards tackling protestors who try to snatch the Olympic flame from runners on its world tour. There have been other celebrity outcries against the Olympics, from such movie stars as Don Cheadle and Mia Farrow (who has labeled Beijing "the genocide Olympics" and provided a list of sponsors she is urging boycotts of.

George Clooney, who has campaigned to raise awareness of Darfur, is in an interesting position. Omega watches, a company with whom he has a cushy endorsement deal, is one of those sponsors. Clooney has said he has encouraged Omega to drop its sponsorship. And Richard Gere, known for his championing of Tibet, has been a vocal critic of the games - not to mention Beijing's plans to run the torch through Tibet.

On top of all this is the brewing call for world leaders and corporate chieftains to boycott the opening ceremonies - Hillary Clinton called on President Bush to do so, and Barack Obama seemed to agree. All of these rumbles lead to a couple of conclusions. First, if members of the International Olympic Committee wanted to avoid controversy, they should have just awarded the games to Toronto (the distant runner-up for 2008). The fact that people are up in arms is not surprising - plenty of nations have boycotted Olympics over the years, including the Soviet Union skipping the Los Angeles games and China threatening to pull out of the Atlanta games over U.S. ties to Taiwan.

Secondly, maybe the Olympics and Hollywood really don't mix. Film-maker Ang Lee and music impresario Quincy Jones are still listed as creative advisors to the games, but a quick canvas of big media executives did not yield enormous involvement on their part (aside from NBC, of course, which holds the broadcast rights). One leader of one of the top film studios told me the Olympics are kind of a non-event in his eyes, but if he had a movie opening in China tied to the games he probably would reconsider it given the political tempest. 

My guess is that whether Hollywood is involved or not, China will still mount a thoroughly over the top and in some ways impressive production. My hope is that the focus will be on the sports and competitions themselves, and less on the pomp and circumstance. It's still amazing to recall that at the last games - albeit the winter variety - more people tuned in on key nights to watch American Idol than competitions. Then again, I thought there was something appropriate for the times about the scaled-down, least-watched-ever, post-strike iteration of the Academy Awards. Maybe the lesson here - one that both future Olympics and Hollywood can share - is that not everything needs to be a blockbuster


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## YelloPerilo (Oct 17, 2003)

Harkeb said:


> To 'Megacool' : You can only so much post your friend's propaganda. Fortunately, not everyone is controlled by the chinese regime. Some of us can actually think for themselves.
> 
> As to why the thread is still open: people should be allowed to air their opposing views. So far, it has been in an orderly fashion.


Please point out the propaganda part!

Sure, people can point out their opposing view, but whatever Chinese say is just pure propaganda in your eyes. Hypocrisy at its best!


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## kurklk (Dec 22, 2004)

duskdawn said:


> In this Tibet's case, Chinese gov't did nothing wrong and they had my full respect.


The question remains however that If they did nothing wrong whats the harm in letting them Protest? Here in the Bay Area people protest all the time for anything they want this is basic human rights. I come from India and I have many many many Tibetan friends and I have many Chinese friends and I firmly believe that *Tibet is, was and forever will be a part of China*. However that does not mean Tibetans cannot protest? Even In India which is not a native country for them, Tibetans and their Indian supporters protest against the Indian Government to get them better treatment. This is the essence of the debate in my mind. If the Tibetans want to protest let them. In fact letting them protest will do far more good than harm. It will let them heel to be a part of china. The Tibetans should be given every right as every Chinese. 

Incidentally only people from Democratic countries with a unbroken democratic rule (Britain, India, France, USA) Understand this kind of thinking. So In the US when the KKK holds rallies, In the US Muslims take out Anti went rally, In India Shiva Sena take out anti immigrant rallies, My heart sinks because these people are essentially Bigots However they as free citizens of a free country have the right to protest about anything they want. 

Im not saying anything bad about the Chinese and I really think Tibet belongs to China but that means Like any multi prularal country the Chinese have to stop thinking that "We helped them out a lot" In a truly free country there is no "Us" and "Them".. there is only "We".


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## kurklk (Dec 22, 2004)

opps sry double post..


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## YelloPerilo (Oct 17, 2003)

^^

It is not the protest I have problems with. What happened in Lhasa was an ethnic progrom against any Chinese citizen who is not Tibetan. This has nothing to do with democracy, freedom of speech or freedom of assembly, this is hate crime.


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## MILIUX (Sep 13, 2002)

staff said:


> Why is this thread still open?


Say no to propaganda. 

Fortunately, the Great Firewall of China doesn't extend to SSC.

As far as i'm concerned, if a government represses its people, then that people have the right to demand self-determination since it did not gained support. Same goes to North Korea, Zimbabwe, Burma and so on.


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## Bandit (Dec 6, 2006)

kurklk said:


> The question remains however that If they did nothing wrong whats the harm in letting them Protest? Here in the Bay Area people protest all the time for anything they want this is basic human rights. I come from India and I have many many many Tibetan friends and I have many Chinese friends and I firmly believe that *Tibet is, was and forever will be a part of China*. However that does not mean Tibetans cannot protest? Even In India which is not a native country for them, Tibetans and their Indian supporters protest against the Indian Government to get them better treatment. This is the essence of the debate in my mind. If the Tibetans want to protest let them. In fact letting them protest will do far more good than harm. It will let them heel to be a part of china. The Tibetans should be given every right as every Chinese.
> 
> Incidentally only people from Democratic countries with a unbroken democratic rule (Britain, India, France, USA) Understand this kind of thinking. So In the US when the KKK holds rallies, In the US Muslims take out Anti went rally, In India Shiva Sena take out anti immigrant rallies, My heart sinks because these people are essentially Bigots However they as free citizens of a free country have the right to protest about anything they want.
> 
> Im not saying anything bad about the Chinese and I really think Tibet belongs to China but that means Like any multi prularal country the Chinese have to stop thinking that "We helped them out a lot" In a truly free country there is no "Us" and "Them".. there is only "We".


If you read Western tourist accounts and an Economist journalist the authorities did let them protest for a couple of days at least. When the Tibetans saw they didn't face resistance, they escalated into violence and started to kill innocent civilians and that's when the authorities brought in reinforcements. So they were allowed to protests until they started to kill people. Is there something wrong with cracking down when they start to kill innocent civilians?

Do democratic countries let protestors kill people? No. The US crack down on the LA riots. And I just read in India 14 people protesting land seized by the government to create special economic zones have been killed by police within the last year. Democracies kill protestors too.


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## Golden Age (Dec 26, 2006)

I think everybody, more or less, wants the Olympic Games to be a success: the hosts, the athletes and the billions of people who'll be watching. The Tibet issue is not new, it's been festering for decades, the problem will not be solved by magic until the opening ceremony commences, but will need many years of patient negotiating.

Don't forget, the IOC awarded China the Olympics being fully aware of its authoritarian government and the Tibet situation. It would probably do so again today. It was simply Asia's time, next time it will be Europe's turn again in London.

Nonetheless, I would strongly urge to refrain from carrying the torch through 30 different cities around the globe the next time around. It is a farce and a huge waste of resources (the media is covering it as though OJ Simpson himself were carrying the torch).


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## Rapid (May 31, 2004)

So, lets go over how Beijing plans to funnel millions of people into the different Olympic venues? Any new bridges, roads, transit systems? Anyone :dunno:


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## binhai (Dec 22, 2006)

^^ Well, for starters: Beijing International Airport Terminal 3, biggest building in the world, many new ring roads and expressways (5th + 6th ringroad, renovation of all other ring roads, new airport expressway for terminal 3, expressway to chengde), and at least 3 new subway lines, renovation of streets near Qianmen to their 1930s appearance including a tram, tons of new skyscrapers, the greening of Beijing (much better landscaping than before), and a high-speed rail to Tianjin that takes just 30 mins (120 km distance).


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## staff (Oct 23, 2004)

MILIUX said:


> Fortunately, the Great Firewall of China doesn't extend to SSC.


The Great Firewall is a non-issue in any case, since it's only a speed bump. Every Chinese internet user can easily get around it without any problems.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

Rapid said:


> So, lets go over how Beijing plans to funnel millions of people into the different Olympic venues? Any new bridges, roads, transit systems? Anyone :dunno:



I heard that they are going CRAZY with transport there. As an American, I feel jealous that the Chinese are able to build their infrastructure so fast and painless. It would take over 20 years to build a 1km highway here. Then again, I would not to see their practices implemented.


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## dodge321 (Sep 5, 2007)

^^ Transport infrastructure is absolutely vital for the country, 5% of Beijing resident own cars and at peak hours the roads are like a parking lot. So to avoid grounding the country to a standstill, public transport, roads, rail and airport infrastructure must be built at an unprecedented speed to keep up with growth.


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## duskdawn (May 13, 2006)

kurklk said:


> The question remains however that If they did nothing wrong whats the harm in letting them Protest? Here in the Bay Area people protest all the time for anything they want this is basic human rights. I come from India and I have many many many Tibetan friends and I have many Chinese friends and I firmly believe that *Tibet is, was and forever will be a part of China*. However that does not mean Tibetans cannot protest? Even In India which is not a native country for them, Tibetans and their Indian supporters protest against the Indian Government to get them better treatment. This is the essence of the debate in my mind. If the Tibetans want to protest let them. In fact letting them protest will do far more good than harm. It will let them heel to be a part of china. The Tibetans should be given every right as every Chinese.
> 
> Incidentally only people from Democratic countries with a unbroken democratic rule (Britain, India, France, USA) Understand this kind of thinking. So In the US when the KKK holds rallies, In the US Muslims take out Anti went rally, In India Shiva Sena take out anti immigrant rallies, My heart sinks because these people are essentially Bigots However they as free citizens of a free country have the right to protest about anything they want.
> 
> Im not saying anything bad about the Chinese and I really think Tibet belongs to China but that means Like any multi prularal country the Chinese have to stop thinking that "We helped them out a lot" In a truly free country there is no "Us" and "Them".. there is only "We".


Wait, the problem is not about "protest". It's about Tibetan riotors burning Han Chinese girls alive and plunder the city, and the rest of the "democratic" world supports that.


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## UD2 (Jan 21, 2006)

................................................................................................ wow

shouldn't we all talk about things that we actually understand? You didn't recieve your education by reading newspapers, so why is everybody pretending to be experts in issues that they learned about from the news? 

There is a reason why news reports arn't considered academic sources when you write/wrote/are going to be writing your papers.

The ignorance... sigh.


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## yiserexoica (Apr 18, 2007)

Feeling surprised or not, protests are indeed allowed in China. And in fact quite a number of Tibetan students were engaged in a silent protest in one of the university campus in Beijing and the police did not even chase them away.

The problem now lies in the nature of the protest. Once violence is being deployed , I wouldn't even bother to call it a protest anymore.

The sad case is, many western media, while criticizing China for media censorship, they do not report such violent behaviours in Tibet. And many people watching such media propaganda, having very little knowledge about Tibet, simply believe that the Chinese troops are cracking down "innocent" and "peaceful" demonstrations.

To make things worse, some western media actually used fake pictures (e.g. pictures taken in Nepal or modified ones) to lie, beautify or simply deny the presence of riots in Tibet.

The bottom line is, once a protest turns into people-killing or car-burning riots, it should never get any support again no matter how strong or valid its argument is.


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## yiserexoica (Apr 18, 2007)

*Things you'll never see on CNN or BBC*

Worldwide pro-China protests
Sunday, 20 April, 2008

Several thousand Chinese have rallied in Paris, Britain, Berlin and Los Angeles in support of their country and against allegedly biased media coverage of the Olympic torch relay and unrest in Tibet.

In Los Angeles, police say up to 5,000 people gathered outside the Hollywood offices of broadcaster CNN in protest against one of the channel's commentators, Jack Cafferty, who described China as a "bunch of goons and thugs".

The channel has since apologised and said the April 9 remarks referred to the Chinese government, not the people, but the row only added to the anger felt by many Chinese worldwide following protests during the Olympic torch relay.

Media criticised

In Paris, up to 4,000 Chinese students and other expatriates gathered in the Place de la Republique wearing T-shirts daubed with the slogan "One China, One family" and brandishing signs critical of the western media, police says.

The protesters, who came from across France, unfurled a banner showing handicapped Chinese athletes who carried the torch during the chaotic relay through Paris last week, as they chanted "Beijing Olympic Games!" and "Go Peking!"

Chinese flags floated beneath heavy clouds along with a blue-white-and-red one symbolising French-Chinese friendship.

"We're demonstrating against the disinformation in the French and western media, to promote the Olympic Games and to construct a bridge between the French and Chinese people - and not a wall as the media do," says one of the rally's spokesmen, Thierry Liu.

Several French also joined the Paris rally including Joseph, 60, who says he travelled often to China and that he was "defending the right to the truth".

Protest outside BBC

More than 1,000 people, mainly students, also gathered outside the BBC's offices in Manchester, north-west England, while around 300 staged a demonstration outside the Houses of Parliament in London.

"I was in London ... during the torch relay on April 6 and we saw thousands of students coming from all over the UK just to support the torch relay and were really excited about that," London protester Becky Qin told BBC television.

"But when I went back to Cambridge and saw the recorded version of BBC News 24, we were disappointed to see nothing about the supporting groups at all.

"It was as if the torch was just struggling its way through London and it was all about how people were so resentful about it," she says, adding that the broadcaster had provided "blurry numbers" about how many people had died during March riots in Tibet.

Several hundred pro-Chinese activists also demonstrated in Berlin's Potsdamer Platz in the business district gripping banners with messages like "Media = untruths," and "China Olympia, one world, one dream".

The protests come more than a week after torch relays in Paris and London were disrupted by activists critical of Beijing's human rights record and its recent crackdown on unrest in the Himalayan region of Tibet.

Economic boycotts proposed

The prospect of a boycott and the marred European legs of the torch relay have angered the Chinese government and prompted ordinary Chinese to call for boycotts of European products, including the French supermarket chain Carrefour.

Protests against Carrefour and France took place in five Chinese towns Saturday, as the Bangkok leg of the protest-hit Beijing Olympic torch relay ended largely trouble free.

In an interview with France's Le Journal du Dimanche weekly, a senior Carrefour executive, Jose Luis Duran, says the chain took the protests "very seriously," although he described them as small and localised and causing no significant impact to date on its bottom line. 
Source: AFP


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## japanese001 (Mar 17, 2007)

This bulletin board will be deleted by the Chinese government.:yes:


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## bonivison (Jan 17, 2007)

Come to China
See the situation in person
You may find the truth


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## yiserexoica (Apr 18, 2007)

japanese001 said:


> This bulletin board will be deleted by the Chinese government.:yes:


I only know the Chinese people can view this bulletin board whenever they want to.

I also know that the news above was censored by your government.

Cheers.


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## Golden Age (Dec 26, 2006)

yiserexoica said:


> Several thousand Chinese have rallied in Paris, Britain, Berlin and Los Angeles in support of their country and against allegedly biased media coverage of the Olympic torch relay and unrest in Tibet.
> 
> 
> > Have some of the Western news media used a double standard in commenting on the Chinese situation? Yes. Has some of the news coverage been one-sided and even misleading? Yes. Does this mean that all of the Western media is biased against China or, worse, conspire to damage China? Absolutely not.
> ...


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## princeofseoul (Jun 8, 2004)

kurklk said:


> .. and I firmly believe that *Tibet is, was and forever will be a part of China*.


You are free to believe what you want. However, to the best of my knowledge, Tibet was not invaded/occupied/annexed by the Chinese until 60 years ago. 

Further, it should be noted that the same arguments that China is using to claim that Tibet was part of China can also be used to claim that Mongolia or Korea were part of China in the past. Does this sound extreme? Well, the claim over Chinese ownership of Tibet is just as ludicrous.

http://www.freetibet.org/info/facts/fact15.html


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## yiserexoica (Apr 18, 2007)

gl22 said:


> i simply find silly about the chinese protests! the point is....the western media can say whatever they want in their own counry! why that brothers the chinese? i think, those chinese migrants and studetns in the rally have been discriminated in the west for too long, now they are just using this chance to chant for their anger! they r protesting for themslves simly!


Well.. talking about different voices to be heard in a society. Irony huh.

And regarding why western media bothered the Chinese, I believe the answer is simple - You don't criticize other countries for media censorship when you yourself is is covering up so many facts about Tibet.

And just in case some of you still don't get it. The Chinese see the Olympics as the *people*'s games, so any boycott of the games simply means a boycott to the Chinese people. And if the pro-Tibetan protestors were allowed to disrupt the torch relay (and even with force, unfortunately), I don't see why the Chinese students should not be protesting (and in a peaceful and civilized manner) against biased news coverage.

**added**
After reading some of your posts I've suddenly realized it's simply a waste of time talking to you.:| Funny you brought up the term "discriminated".


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## Harkeb (Oct 12, 2004)

z0rg said:


> ^^ Hopefully all those violents will be judged according to Korean laws.


That kind of violence would be condoned in any civilised country. Keep your hypocritical "hopefully" to yourself, for in China such violators would be shot, no questions asked.
No oppositions in the Chinese part of the race would even be allowed, never mind violent demonstrations by non-chinese. 
Question is- how will chinese supporters react to another team to whom they would lost at an Olympic event? Can we expect the very same reaction, with the chinese police doing nothing to stop them?


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## Harkeb (Oct 12, 2004)

Still reason to worry about the Olympics -- five reasons, actually 

Here are five reasons to worry about what lays ahead for the Beijing Games:

1) The Chinese government still doesn't get it.

The one thing the world didn't want China to do was to try to host dissent-free, showcase Olympics. But China is still attempting to do just that. Its government has been blindsided by the global protests -- and genuinely perplexed by them, suggesting a surprising lack of understanding of today's world. Its grudging offer to meet with representatives of the Dalai Lama to discuss the situation in Tibet will win it little international goodwill.

2) The anti-Western backlash among the Chinese citizenry is real. 

Just as many Americans react defensively to criticism of U.S. from abroad (side order of crow with those Freedom Fries?), many Chinese bristle at what they perceive as constant China-bashing from the U.S. and Europe. This week a New York Times story quoted a poem posted on the Internet by "A Silent, Silent Chinese" and said by Chinese college students interviewed by the paper to accurately reflect their own feelings:

_When we were poor, you said we were destroying the planet.
When we tried limiting our numbers, you said it is human rights abuse.
When we were poor, you thought we were dogs.
When we loan you cash, you blame us for your debts.
When we build our industries, you called us polluters.
When we sell you goods, you blame us for global warming._

Could athletes from the U.S. or, say, France -- which has already been targeted by protesters in China for alleged anti-Beijing, pro-Dalai Lama bias -- receive a less-than-rousing welcome from Chinese fans? Especially if one of the athletes criticizes the policies of the host country? Or does something unsportsmanlike against a Chinese opponent? There is a risk that the Beijing Olympic slogan could change -- and it may already be changing -- from "One World, One Dream" to "Us Versus Them."

3) The Anti-Olympic movement has been born. 

Thanks to this year's torch relay, grassroots protest groups have discovered that the Games are a stage that commands the world's attention like nothing else. As if fears of disruptions and terrorism didn't already weigh heavily enough on host cities, now every future torch run could be a magnet for rebels with a cause. It is not farfetched to imagine that at least one anti-Olympic protester, and perhaps a number of them, will find their way to Beijing this August.

4) Olympic sponsors don't need any more p.r. disasters.

There could be a silver lining to all the unwanted attention the Beijing Games are receiving: Olympic TV ratings this August might go up. But advertisers and Games sponsors do not like controversy and negative news. Everything that is happening is making future Olympics a harder sell for the IOC.

5) The Games haven't even started yet. 

Some national Olympic Committees are warning athletes not to discuss politics in Beijing, and even though the Olympic Charter bans any kind of "demonstration or political, religious or racial propaganda ... in any Olympic sites, venues or other areas," the reality is that 20,000 reporters, photographers and broadcasters will be thrown in with 10,000 athletes for more than two weeks. Journalists are going to ask pointed political questions day after day. It seems almost inevitable that someone taking part in the Games will say, or wear, something inflammatory. How the IOC and the Chinese handle that moment will be crucial to the success or failure of the Olympics.

It is mere coincidence that the Dalai Lama maintains a government-in-exile office in London, the site of the 2012 Summer Games. Four years from now, as Britain throbs with its own Olympic headaches, perhaps he would be available for another lunch. We could talk about the eternal challenge of bringing the world together.


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## Bandit (Dec 6, 2006)

Harkeb said:


> That kind of violence would be condoned in any civilised country. Keep your hypocritical "hopefully" to yourself, for in China such violators would be shot, no questions asked.
> No oppositions in the Chinese part of the race would even be allowed, never mind violent demonstrations by non-chinese.
> Question is- how will chinese supporters react to another team to whom they would lost at an Olympic event? Can we expect the very same reaction, with the chinese police doing nothing to stop them?


Of course someone from a historically racist country is going to try to make another out to be more racist. You know nothing about China except from your racist stereotypes. We already know the West is absolutely outraged at the non-violent anti-West protests in China that has happened in the last couple of weeks. But somehow hypocritcally excuses Tibetan mobs targeting and killing innocent civilians. Ironic that China helped in the anti-apartheid movement since the fifties yet most Western countries didn't end calling Nelson Mandela and the African National Congress "terrorists" until towards the end. Where was that superior humanity from the West who were the last of the world to support Nelsen Mandela? And you think the Chinese have to listen to hypocrites with their racist bias form of justice?

You show your racist ignorance to claim Chinese will riot if they lose to foreigners in the Olympics. Unknown to your lack of knowledge, China has hosted international sporting competitions before where their team didn't win and suprisingly no violence. Stop transferring the ugliness of your culture onto others. We know how racial supremacy is important to your culture. And we all know that's what this is really all about and not freedom.


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## z0rg (Jan 17, 2003)

Harkeb said:


> That kind of violence would be condoned in any civilised country.


As long as it is not committed by Tibetans against Han Chinese, of course. In such cases it is something we must support and celebrate unless we are agents of the CCP.


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## peacedot (Apr 10, 2008)

There has been a long time that the west see about China in a slang angle, nevertheless, boycotting Beijing Olympic games is the point of view among a small group of people, they are either easy enough to be brainwashed by the distorted media reports or paid by some anti-China orgnizations. 
As a Chinese live overseas, I can tell that some westerners hate China, they hate everything from China, good or bad, they just hate it. Reasons can be various, I think that they forget a rule that they themselves hold in esteem on the natural compitition. China's peaceful rise is good for us all, its growing is inevitably accompanied by opposing voices and behaviors. China is a nation with more than 5,000 years history, after all these up-and-down historic waves, the country is re-establishing its world positive images, I never worry about that such a nation cannot host a great Olympic Games. A country that has improved its 1.3 billion population's life standard in such a short time, what's wrong on hosting the Olympic Games in China? Why you boycott Beijing Olympic Games? Every country has its own problems, no need to mention China with a population of five times bigger than that of the States, and a nation of thousands years of history with a completely different political system to the west. What do you want from China? Human rights, human rights...how many times you want to take advantage of this to block China to step on the world stage? As a basic human rights and a universal theory, the improvement of living standard of the biggest population's nation of the world is the biggest human rights' contribution to our global development. I am glad to see the Olympic Games will be held in China, and I believe that the mojority of the people who live in the west would like to share the joy of this ' One world, One dream' Olympic Games in Beijing. Go China!


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

Bandit said:


> Of course someone from a historically racist country is going to try to make another out to be more racist. You know nothing about China except from your racist stereotypes. We already know the West is absolutely outraged at the non-violent anti-West protests in China that has happened in the last couple of weeks. But somehow hypocritcally excuses Tibetan mobs targeting and killing innocent civilians. Ironic that China helped in the anti-apartheid movement since the fifties yet most Western countries didn't end calling Nelson Mandela and the African National Congress "terrorists" until towards the end. Where was that superior humanity from the West who were the last of the world to support Nelsen Mandela? And you think the Chinese have to listen to hypocrites with their racist bias form of justice?
> .



How is that better now then China's deals and support of "Arabization" in Sudan by the north imposed on Africans on the south? South Africa was rife with injustices but it didn't kill millions of black Africans like Sudan has over the last few decades but yet you rightlously just go on a tirade against South Africa but then tell people to mind their own f'n buisness when Sudan has literally killed millions (maybe killing millions in genocides is preferable to apartheid?). 

Anyway, attack the man's points not his country, for all you know maybe he was or is just as disgusted about apartheid South Africa as anyone. If does condemn the past I am betting it is more genuine then you who likely only cares when it can be used as an attack debate tactic when it suites.


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## particlez (May 5, 2008)

it's a shame people like normandlee and harkeb can be sanctimonious, ignorant, and unwittingly hypocritical. 

it's one thing for tibetans to advocate for their independence. it's one thing to be upset with china's open lack of a free media. however, these two have overlooked basically every other aspect of the situation, yet persist in throwing out poorly-worded condemnations. apparently these two do not realize that the mainstream media systematically elides the problems of our own regimes, yet spins negative media attention against our competitor regimes. thus we rarely reference our very real genocide of the native americans (compared to the 'cultural' genocide of tibet), the ongoing discrimination ladled out to various minorities here, our support for even worse dictators overseas, etc. etc. 

IF you have read independent media critics such as uri avnery and michael parenti, you'd see past the schlock put forth from media tools like cnn and bbc. these journalists/media tools have taken an ethnic pogrom (against everyday citizens who just didn't happen to be part of their group) and turned it into some act of upstanding defiance. as for darfur.... just read up on the cia's involvement. mia farrow is being played like a pawn.


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## Bandit (Dec 6, 2006)

nomarandlee said:


> How is that better now then China's deals and support of "Arabization" in Sudan by the north imposed on Africans on the south? South Africa was rife with injustices but it didn't kill millions of black Africans like Sudan has over the last few decades but yet you rightlously just go on a tirade against South Africa but then tell people to mind their own f'n buisness when Sudan has literally killed millions (maybe killing millions in genocides is preferable to apartheid?).
> 
> Anyway, attack the man's points not his country, for all you know maybe he was or is just as disgusted about apartheid South Africa as anyone. If does condemn the past I am betting it is more genuine then you who likely only cares when it can be used as an attack debate tactic when it suites.



I love how hypocrites who hide behind freedom are always trying to restrict everyone else. Of course you think his racism justifyable. Where's the proof that Chinese will attack foreigners if Chinese teams lose. People in Sudan are all Africans. There are no Arabs in power. They're Africans who are Muslim. Stop with the racist propaganda just like at first you said that the people of Darfur were Christians. What does that say when you have to lie to get superior humatarian Westerners on board and care? You wouldn't have to lie about such things if you were actually right.

So you want to blame China for Sudan? Then let's blame the West for everything wrong in Africa. Darfur is only the tip of the iceberg of the evil legacy of the West in Africa. I bet you didn't know that every border in Africa was drawn up by the West. Why? Because racist Western imperialists bunched rival nations together under their colonies. Why? So that they would spend their time killing each other instead of focusing on the evil Westerner imperialist ruling them where you would also play favorites so everyone's anger would be focused on them. Just like Rwanda. And what happened to that superior humanity of yours there. One million people dead in three months. Far worse than Darfur and you did absolutely nothing. So do you think anyone in the world should listen to your twisted barbaric sense of justice while you say and do nothing about your illegal war and occupation in Iraq that has killed and displaced more people than in Darfur?

And your logic would be that the West is responsible for Tibet too. You do business in China so you help oppress the Tibetans and are responsible for everything that happens there. So why don't you quit with the lie that you care and just admit the real truth that everyone in the world has to yield to the master race. Notice that Western humanitarians and white supremacists have the same fears and agenda for the world these days?


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## Harkeb (Oct 12, 2004)

nomarandlee said:


> ...Anyway, attack the man's points not his country, for all you know maybe he was or is just as disgusted about apartheid South Africa as anyone.


I was a victim of apartheid and have experienced and witnessed firsthandedly the abuse of state power. Apartheid flourished because of underhand support from the USA & UK. Their silence prolonged the suffering of my country, just like what's happening in China. Thanks to people who refused to be silenced, South Africa is free.


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## Bandit (Dec 6, 2006)

Afrikaners were not victims of apatheid. They were the victimizers. And interesting how one of the first foreign trips that Nelsen Mandela took after being released from jail was to China. Why? Because China was a major backer in the region supporting movements against the racist South African apartheid regime while the countries of the West supported it. That's why there's a special hatred the Afrikaners have for the Chinese.


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

> Bandit said:
> 
> 
> > I love how hypocrites who hide behind freedom are always trying to restrict everyone else. Of course you think his racism justifiable. Where's the proof that Chinese will attack foreigners if Chinese teams lose.
> ...


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## Bandit (Dec 6, 2006)

> Where did I justify any supposed racism? I simply stated to argue his ideas not to take cheap shots about the past of his nation. South Africa is a nation that to a large extent dealt with their issues with continued peaceful reconciliation.


Because you don't find it a problem that he would make an absurd charge that Chinese people will attack foreigners if their teams lose. Where's the proof? Since you protect such a racist comment you support racism.

And you don't think that's a cheap shot and an attack on someone's country? That's why you're a racist and a hypocrite.



> Care to quote me where I said Darfaurians were Christian?


"You" was plural. Since you back the hypocrites that charge China for what's happening in Darfur, you therefore bear the responsibility of what they lie about. Just like you use the token example of Sudan to attack China as doing nothing but bad things in the world.



> No, but they do play a part in the culpability of a very f'ed up regime. I find your hypocrisy about entrenched support for Apartheid South Africa being a moral failing and then fail to acknowledge how China's dealings with a genocidal regime that has arguably carried out far worst crimes then apartheid South Africa by killing millions in the last decades is somehow not abhorrent in your mind. When its China the attitude seems to be "non-interference" or "internal sovereign matters" yet when you need arguing points that is surely not the case. Of course I am not telling you not to critique history or comment yet don't be such a raging nationalist dunce to condemn some history (other people's) and then use cowardly rationales like "respecting sovereignty" or "non-interference" when the issue of Chinese despicable associations come up.


And the West campaign against communism pushed Indonesia in 1965 to kill off the Chinese population there. One million innocent Chinese civilians dead in less than a month. Far worse than Darfur, far worse than Tibet and yet not a tear from the self-anointed champions of humanity. And what about the one million Kurds that have been killed by US allies at the time? And what about 300 million Dalits that live under slavery today. And what about everything else? Not a word from the self-anointed champions of humanity. Why? Because they're crimes committed by Western allies. And you don't understand why you're a hypocrite?

And you think you get to dictate to the world what's important. When you ignore massacres far worse than those that you complain about, it's only about a white supremacist trying to exercise power by dictating to the world what's important. And what's more an example of exercising power by demandig the world to address only one lesser crime and not the worst or all.

And hypocrites always cry "foul" when their own logic turns against them. LOL!!!


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

> Bandit;20408581]Because you don't find it a problem that he would make an absurd charge that Chinese people will attack foreigners if their teams lose. Where's the proof? Since you protect such a racist comment you support racism.


 So you mind read now? Where did I infer that I agree that Chinese people likely will attack foreigners? Just because I ask you not to take cheap shots at his country as a deflection means that I agree with every idea he utters?:lol: 



> "You" was plural. Since you back the hypocrites that charge China for what's happening in Darfur, you therefore bear the responsibility of what they lie about. Just like you use the token example of Sudan to attack China as doing nothing but bad things in the world.


 Oh I see, so since some guy somewhere said that Darfur was Christian that makes me having said so as well. And you accuse the western press of playing loose with the facts?



> And the West campaign against communism pushed Indonesia in 1965 to kill off the Chinese population there. One million innocent Chinese civilians dead in less than a month.


 And when China's support for Pol Pot lead to millions of Cambodians deaths. You are bringing up old s--t just to throw at the wall and see what sticks. What is your point? Lets talk about the things China does today that some think should aknowledged and not condoned who are not racist or "Sino-phobes" but honerable concerned people of which there are many?





> And what about the one million Kurds that have been killed by US allies at the time? And what about 300 million Dalits that live under slavery today. And what about everything else?


 Please expand.



> it's only about a white supremacist trying to exercise power by dictating to the world what's important. And what's more an example of exercising power by demandig the world to address only one lesser crime and not the worst or all.


 What I see are some Sino-supremicist if anything who think the nobody in the world should dare utter any criticims of the Chinese government actions or ask for a remedy to current attrocities and who think the "prestige" of a silly sports comeptition comes before genocide, censorship, and autocracy etc.

The thing is I have never claimed or demanded that my country or any other nation not be proteseted or not to be critiqued. You seem to think that China is so special and beyond reproach that it deserves special protection from scrutiny. Who is the ethocentric who thinks that his country is deserving of special status and protection from criticism and then you throw out the "racist" card like its the spart change in your pocket.hno:


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## Bandit (Dec 6, 2006)

> So you mind read now? Where did I infer that I agree that Chinese people likely will attack foreigners? Just because I ask you not to take cheap shots at his country as a deflection means that I agree with every idea he utters?


And you apparently can't read at all. That sure helps in denial. You defended the racist post who charged tht Chinese will attack foreigners if their teams lose. This only shows that you're not reading anything and just reacting to your racism alone.



> Oh I see, so since some guy somewhere said that Darfur was Christian that makes me having said so as well. And you accuse the western press of playing loose with the facts?


I love the cover-up and lies. This just shows your ignorance on the subject and you know nothing. The Darfur activists before finding a scapegoat in China tried to use the racist angle that Arabs were attacking and committing genocide on Black Christians in Darfur which was a lie to get Westerners on board to care because we all know Christians have priority over everyone else. More racism as usual.



> And when China's support for Pol Pot lead to millions of Cambodians deaths. You are bringing up old s--t just to throw at the wall and see what sticks. What is your point? Lets talk about the things China does today that some think should aknowledged and not condoned who are not racist or "Sino-phobes" but honerable concerned people of which there are many?


We've heard about Pol Pot. The hypocrite talking about going off subject... The Chinese didn't instruct Cambodia to kill people like the US did with Indonesia in 1965. And more hypocrisy on top of that hypocrisy since the US supported that very Cambodian regime because they were anti-Vietnam. Nothing compares to crimes against humanity like those of the West where it's all racially motivated to this very day. The Chinese never attempted to take over the world like the West attempted. And of course your white supremacist values doesn't look at that a serious crime yet your made-up paranoaid racism does take priority. All you can do is make up your ficticious crimes as usual.



> Please expand.



You need explanation on how the West cover-ups far worse crimes committed by themselves and their allies? It's called you're in denial.



> What I see are some Sino-supremicist if anything who think the nobody in the world should dare utter any criticims of the Chinese government actions or ask for a remedy to current attrocities and who think the "prestige" of a silly sports comeptition comes before genocide, censorship, and autocracy etc.
> 
> The thing is I have never claimed or demanded that my country or any other nation not be proteseted or not to be critiqued. You seem to think that China is so special and beyond reproach that it deserves special protection from scrutiny. Who is the ethocentric who thinks that his country is deserving of special status and protection from criticism and then you throw out the "racist" card like its the spart change in your pocket.


I guess only a racist supremacist would know what it takes. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

I love how you're trying to displaced all the guilt and excuses of your crimes against humanity onto China. China has never used those excuses. China doesn't dictate to the world what to do or how to think. Only you hypocrites do. That's the difference. No one has said China is a saint. You think that because in your limited black and white logic, you believe there's only good and evil. And if I'm exposing your evils to the world, you're limited way of thinking assumes that I'm saying China is the good. No that's only how Westerners think because it helps in the denial that they're the greatest criminals against humanity in the history of the world that they only have to show a token compassion like Darfur and Tibet where still they have done nothing but words to make them feel like they're a champion and the only good in the world unlike what the West's racist history says.

When someone points out how much of a hypocrite you are, it's not about believing in one's own superiority. It's about discrediting a liar and the hypocrite pointing the finger. It's that simple. You're just upset that exposing the truth of your lies makes it harder for you to make the case for the world that you're motivated by good when it's really about white supreamcy. You can't trick the world into obedience to white supremacy if it's exposed not as the compassionate and humanitarian propaganda as you make it out to be.


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## particlez (May 5, 2008)

normandlee and harkeb need to pick up actual history books before going on their pulpits. 

harkeb, afrikaners were defeated and the victims of war crimes in the boer wars, but they were definitely not discriminated against under apartheid. afrikaner politicians were dominant during the apartheid era! that's akin to southern whites complaining of discrimination during the jim crow era. 

as for normandlee, he insists on condescending statements directed towards the gulf arab states and china, yet he fails to recognize worse behavior in his own backyard. how can anyone glowingly write about every incremental domestic development, yet turn around and repeat the accusations of a very questionable news media against ___ foreign nation?

tibetans are a minority. as such, they will most likely lose much of their cultural distinctiveness. yet their situation isn't much different from that of minorities in other places. but they're also full-fledged citizens, with the same rights as other citizens. similar independence sentiments exist in places like okinawa, hawaii, puerto rico, the basque country, california, etc., but scant media attention is ever lavished on them. the mainstream media doesn't recognize this, and endlessly broadcasts footage of nepali police beating their local tibetan demonstrators, and it's all backed up with a sermonizing, propagandistic message about the inherent evils of a mysterious regime.

based on the posts by these 2; it's safe to conclude that harkeb and normandlee are wilfully ignorant, or more likely, lacking in both information and independent analysis of the news media around them. thus they are able to type multiple pharisaical messages, without seeing the irony. *there's no point to acknowledging them.*


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## Harkeb (Oct 12, 2004)

^ Keep the eye on the ball. We dont live in the past for we are the future in the making. Right now, the future does not look good. Please keep your personal attacks to yourself. I dont give a damn what you think of me. 
If you have different views in news reports, post them by all means. But do no pretend to have a higher iq then the rest of us. I did not buy my degreeS.


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## Bandit (Dec 6, 2006)

Little hypocrite Harkeb sends me a private email filled with hypocrisy and personal attacks accusing me of not knowing who he is. Well, hypocrite racist troll, you don't know the Chinese and you shouldn't expect anything less in return when you yourself make your ignorant racist charges. Only a racist would think personal attacks are out of bound but racism is okay.

You're the one that started this thread that has nothing to do with the theme of this website and your pouting and stamping your feet because you accuse someone of going out of bound? LOL!!!!!

What are you going to say, Afrikaner? You're not a racist because you love black people?


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

^^ classy as always Bandit hno:



> And you apparently can't read at all. That sure helps in denial. You defended the racist post who charged tht Chinese will attack foreigners if their teams lose. This only shows that you're not reading anything and just reacting to your racism alone.


 Again, show where I defended the view that Chinese will attack foreigners their team if their team does lose? I don't think under that exact scenario that is likely to happen so why would I care to comment on it? The attacks by a few Chinese in other nations are reprehensible though especially considering the fact that the Chinese government would never consider foreigners protesting about certain things in high profile locations and yet some Chinese abuse that right they are given in other nations and even resort to physical violence which is an ugly darn shame.




> Quote:
> 
> I love the cover-up and lies. This just shows your ignorance on the subject and you know nothing. The Darfur activists before finding a scapegoat in China tried to use the racist angle that Arabs were attacking and committing genocide on Black Christians in Darfur which was a lie to get Westerners on board to care because we all know Christians have priority over everyone else. More racism as usual.


 Who are these "Darfur activist" of which you speak and how I am associated with them? Do all "Darfur activist" think that the victims are Christian? I have never been under that impression so trying to discredit me by lumping me in with them I think actually only discredits you. However, the fact that Darfurians are Muslim, Chrisitan, or Martian doesn't matter as the rape and pillaging that has been inflicted upon them has been utterly sytamatic and brutal and one in which the Chiense government protected the culpable Sudan government for years with the UN veto shield (something the U.S. also gets accused of doing with Israel). However what those in Darfur have had to experience in the last five years is far more lethal and excruciating but neither make it right.




> We've heard about Pol Pot. The hypocrite talking about going off subject... The Chinese didn't instruct Cambodia to kill people like the US did with Indonesia in 1965. And more hypocrisy on top of that hypocrisy since the US supported that very Cambodian regime because they were anti-Vietnam. Nothing compares to crimes against humanity like those of the West where it's all racially motivated to this very day. The Chinese never attempted to take over the world like the West attempted. And of course your white supremacist values doesn't look at that a serious crime yet your made-up paranoaid racism does take priority. All you can do is make up your ficticious crimes as usual.


 First of you are not sure what China did or didn't do and if the Chinese government was at all brave they would have real freedom of information procedures to some of their classified material as some other country's do. Maybe they elite did or didn't approve but it sure didn't effect their support much nor their complicity similar to Myanmar, Sudan, or Zimbabwe today.

The U.S's support for the Khmer Rougue is utterly reprehsinsable and contempable. So was China's who was the Khmer Rougue's overwhelming primary military and aid donor who did the heavy lifting in keeping the Khmer Rouge relevant despite all their crimes up until almost the very end.

Yes, everything is "all racially motivated" today because of course in history, contemporary or otherwise, we all know that there aren't bad or malicious actors with malicious intent or who carry out destructive policies. Yes, that is strictly a "western phenomena". Maybe the person yelling racist at every chance is projecting?



> Quote:
> You need explanation on how the West cover-ups far worse crimes committed by themselves and their allies? It's called you're in denial.


 Covers up? What are you talking about? There are no harsher critics then western critics upon themselves. Yet, try to have an open and honest dialogue of the historicity in China in the education or media sphere and I am sure one has to tread very carefully.

I was merely asking for sources (or your version) of the 1 million Kurd number or for instance the one million Chinese "killed" in a month in Indonesia as it seems you may be engaging in funny numbers. 



> I guess only a racist supremacist would know what it takes.
> 
> I love how you're trying to displaced all the guilt and excuses of your crimes against humanity onto China. China has never used those excuses. China doesn't dictate to the world what to do or how to think. Only you hypocrites do. That's the difference. No one has said China is a saint. You think that because in your limited black and white logic, you believe there's only good and evil. And if I'm exposing your evils to the world, you're limited way of thinking assumes that I'm saying China is the good. No that's only how Westerners think because it helps in the denial that they're the greatest criminals against humanity in the history of the world that they only have to show a token compassion like Darfur and Tibet where still they have done nothing but words to make them feel like they're a champion and the only good in the world unlike what the West's racist history says.
> 
> ...


 * So anyone that shows concern or takes issue with events in the world not in their neighborhood is a racist now? Or it just makes westerners "racist"? Listen pal, you can talk about racism and imperialism and all other deflections that have absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand. You can yell RACIST one thousand times and try to divert and act as if it has anything to do with Chinese government policies or the merits of protesting but the tactic is obvious and the diversion only discredits your point. 

Westerners and China each have large warts in their history both ancient and contemporary so as there is no need to make childish itemizations of wrongs like you seem to want to do. The basic issue is if there are deeply flawed or abhorrent policies CURRENTLY by governments either domestic or foreign do things get better by people shutting up and not criticizing? (would you be adamant to critics of the U.S. or western nations that the best way to progress is to shut up or is just for the motherland China?) Or do things change by actually acknowledging wrongs? 

I will ask you in terms a nationlist can perhaps better relate. Just because the Chinese government hasn't always been perfect does that mean that Chinese must be totally indifferant or refrain from critique of Japan's actions during WW2 or of issues surrounding them today? (or are you going to arrogently assert that China has never done wrong). Yet, that is precisely what you seem to be asking of others just because your nationlist sensabilities are hurt. 

Racist "westerners" protest their own wars, their own corporations greed, economic injustice, against the worst strain of racism in their own nations. By such displays there is an obvious nuanced range of positions in such places which is healthy unless one thinks a nation should comprise of sheep. What inflames the passion and leads to massive protest by Chinese? Not complicity to genocide's, aiding ruthless dictators, or demanding unfettered media but instead protesting other nations protesters and the "humiliation" of a sporting event not being a tranquil display of unfettered appreciation of EVERY aspect of China (including government policies). I guess some think Olympics should be one big nationalist orgy to indulge in and that even in this case the whole world should join in. Some day maybe we can even get the CCP to run our media as well since preserving China's self-image is the most noble of causes above all other issues in the world.





> particlez


 Is obviously a banned malcontent in violation of forum etiquette before.


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## Bandit (Dec 6, 2006)

You know a troll that can't argue when they just repeat the same thing over and over again. I forgot you're not even reading and just reacting from your racist instincts of someone inferior daring to challenge you. Don't balme me because you defend a racist poster. Defend him, then you defend his racist insecure rants.


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

particlez said:


> .
> 
> as for normandlee, he insists on condescending statements directed towards the gulf arab states and china, yet he fails to recognize worse behavior in his own backyard. how can anyone glowingly write about every incremental domestic development, yet turn around and repeat the accusations of a very questionable news media against ___ foreign nation?
> 
> ...



The nature and intricacies of the two regions is so different and so is my view of them.
However, as a general philosophy do I admit to not having a fetish for autocratic governance or highly censored manipulated media and control of dissent? 

What is this "glowingly write about every incremental domestic development" refer to? What news media do you want? That which is controlled and censored by nationalist government circles? Sectors of highly dissented media which is an industry unto itself in American'/western media? (of which I indulge but has its place but like any not alone in a vacuum). Are you seriously suggesting that one goes to CCP media or Sheik censored news outlets to get real contrarian (to its target audience) hard hitting news?

As far as Tibet I haven't even got into the issue and for me isn't nearly as dramatic or important as the imposition the CCP forces itself on its own people even despite the adulation nationalist give it. Independence movements and their claims and counter claims are often convuluted messy affairs that are infused with subjectivity. The differance with t he other independance movements you claim is that people are allowed to partake in groups or assocations and protest and be advocates for their position! In Puerto Rico they have voted on the issue of independance or to become a state and voted the status quo.


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

Bandit said:


> You know a troll that can't argue when they just repeat the same thing over and over again. I forgot you're not even reading and just reacting from your racist instincts of someone inferior daring to challenge you. Don't balme me because you defend a racist poster. Defend him, then you defend his racist insecure rants.


 I wasn't supporting his post I was against yours. I merely asked to not take cheap shots at his nation/society as it is irrelevant frankly at least to the point you did and I have seen you do it on other occasions as well. To not be a racist one has to agree with YOUR version of history and events and the vitriolic rhetoric you use base your arguments?

Race or racism has nothing to do with all this as it is just again a fallacy by distraction. Extreme hyper-nationalism on the other hand........


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## Bandit (Dec 6, 2006)

Quit lying to yourself. You demanded that no one question his racist post. And all the times I see you do in any thread that has to do with China is your trolling negative comments. You don't see me going in threads of Western countries or anyone else postings crap about them. You don't see me in there reminding every hypocrite that has something to criticize China about their evil history upon humankind. And you're the one in threads on China posting your anti-China views complaining about negative reactions and then demanding rules to prevent critcism of your posts? You call that classy. You want to hide behind the freedom that you don't care about but your own. Hitler also believed in freedom... his own. Doesn't make him a champion for "freedom" either.


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## Harkeb (Oct 12, 2004)

You are aware that you're making a big fuckhole of yourself, arent you? :banana: I don't like the chinese government, plain and simple. They are evil; They do not deserve to get the Olympic Games, just as much as SA did not deserve to compete in the Olympics back in the day. I stand for the freedom of the tibetan and the taiwanese people. What's your point? Where does Racism come in?


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## dinmu (Sep 5, 2006)

I really like the slave owner, dalai lama things, 
I really hate the chinese gov to save 98% tibetan slave class from the dalai cliche


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## Bandit (Dec 6, 2006)

Harkeb said:


> You are aware that you're making a big fuckhole of yourself, arent you? :banana: I don't like the chinese government, plain and simple. They are evil; They do not deserve to get the Olympic Games, just as much as SA did not deserve to compete in the Olympics back in the day. I stand for the freedom of the tibetan and the taiwanese people. What's your point? Where does Racism come in?


Coming from the racist troll. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Of course you don't recognize your own racism. Because you want to fool yourself into believing that your racism is your humanitarian side at work. Just like all oppressors think what they're doing is what's best for all and not themselves so it justifies in their mind it's all right to be evil.

Of course you like the Taiwanese. The Taiwanese were allies of the apartheid South African government helping each other to develop nuclear weapons so you can drop them on Africans.


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## Harkeb (Oct 12, 2004)

Politically minded stars split on skipping Beijing Olympics 

(CNN) -- Hip-hop performer will.i.am is no stranger to the political arena -- having spearheaded the Internet-favorite "Yes We Can" music video in support of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama.









Actress Mia Farrow holds a torch May 2 as she urges Beijing to help stop the violence in Sudan's Darfur region.

Now he's taking a stance in opposition to some of his fellow performers. The Black Eyed Peas front man says that staying away from the Beijing Olympics because of China's human rights record and crackdown on protesters in Tibet is a mistake.

"I feel the same passion on the injustice that's happening in Tibet and wanting to take a stand," said the performer, whose group plans to perform in China next month. "But then, at the same time ... you could stay home and hold picket signs or you could go there and influence them."

Since the announcement that Beijing would be host of the games, human rights activists have decried the International Olympic Committee's decision.

They say the games will provide an international public-relations platform for a Chinese government that denies its citizens basic human rights and has enforced a crackdown in Tibet, which lost its independence to China in 1951, over anti-Beijing demonstrations there.

Many high-profile entertainers have said they will not support the Olympics in protest of China's record. Actress and longtime political activist Mia Farrow said boycotting the Beijing games would send a strong message to China's government.

Don't Miss
Hadley: Skipping Olympics opening is 'cop-out' 
"No one wants to hurt the athletes," she said. "But to boycott the opening ceremonies -- yes. It's up to us as human beings to make it clear what the right thing is."

Richard Gere, who opposes China's handling of Tibet, has appeared at demonstrations and favors a boycott.

Money/Fortune reported Steven Spielberg resigned as an artistic adviser to the summer games because of China's economic, political and military ties to the Sudan. 

A number of world leaders, including German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk and British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, have said they will not attend the opening ceremonies in Beijing.

A handful of senators, including presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, sent President Bush a letter urging him not to attend the opening ceremonies, saying that "if the Chinese government is ever to treat its people with basic human rights, it must be sent a bold and clear message."

Bush has said he will attend the Olympics, but has not committed to attending the opening ceremonies.

Last month, the U.S. House of Representatives overwhelmingly approved a resolution urging China to end its crackdown on Tibet and free nonviolent protesters imprisoned there.

Meanwhile, will.i.am and others argue that boycotting the ceremony and the games only hurts Chinese citizens, who have no control over their leaders. The Grammy-winning artist also said he senses a whiff of hypocrisy in some calls for staying away from the games.

George Clooney, in a widely reported interview with Spain's el Paris newspaper, said that "it seems excessive to boycott the games because China does business in Darfur."

"America is talking out of both sides of its mouth," will.i.am said. "I know that everything I buy in America says 'Made in China' on it. So for me to just say, 'Yeah, that's right, boycott China' ... you're talking out of both sides of your mouth."


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## Harkeb (Oct 12, 2004)

Olympic torch scales Everest 

EVEREST BASE CAMP, Tibet (CNN) -- The Olympic flame reached the top of the world Thursday morning, carried to the summit of Mount Everest by climbers wearing oxygen masks to breathe in the thin air of the earth's highest point.










The Olympic torch reaches the top of Mount Everest.

A 23-year-old Tibetan woman, Tsering Wangmo, carried the flame atop the peak. She was the last of five climbers -- three Tibetans and two Han Chinese -- to pass the torch to each other near the summit. 

Once there, the mountaineers removed their masks so television cameras could record their faces and so they could shout and cheer their feat.

The climbers, braving gusty winds and freezing windchill, relayed the flame -- ignited from the main Olympic flame, now making a course across China en route to host city Beijing -- to the summit by 9:18 a.m. (9:18 p.m. ET Wednesday), about two hours ahead of schedule.

"They were very motivated; they were very excited," journalist Tomas Etzler said from the Everest base camp at 5,200 meters (17,060 ft). Watch as the torch reaches the top »

The climbers started their ascent at 3 a.m. Thursday (3 p.m. Wednesday) along the Tibetan side of Everest, known there as Chomolungma. Twenty-two of the 31 climbers were Tibetan.

The torches and fuel used in the relay were specially developed by the Chinese space agency, allowing the flame to continue burning at such high elevations, Etzler said.

Harsh weather had forced a delay in the climb, damaging several camps along the way, officials said, but earlier Wednesday, a spokesman for the Chinese climbers said two of three damaged camps had been repaired and mountaineers were on the way to fix the third.

China's official television network, CCTV, broadcast dramatic live images from nearby peaks of the climbers making their way up the steep side of the 8,848-meter (29,030-foot) mountain, as well as close-up views of the climbers using ropes and spiked boots to secure their footing on the treacherous slope.

Two groups climbed to the summit: a 12-person team of torchbearers and a supplemental seven-person pickup team, officials said. The team of about 50 includes 31 climbers along with coaches, advisers and other support staff members.

The flame is burning in a lantern designed to protect it from low-oxygen conditions of the high altitude. 

The main Olympic flame began its three-month trek through China on Sunday after a global torch relay.

Secrecy kept journalists at the base camp from knowing when the summit attempt might begin. Tight security surrounds the mountain to prevent any anti-Chinese and pro-Tibet protests.

The climbers needed four to six days of good weather to climb to the summit and return, officials said.

Despite the secrecy ahead of the effort, elaborate technical plans are in place so that CCTV can broadcast the ascent live.


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## Bandit (Dec 6, 2006)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jexrkriu934

The Dalai Lama's secret hit squad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGt94YJIA_0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aboblx-0zAs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1dILwsmwCQ&feature=related


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## kix111 (Jun 14, 2007)

LOL!!!!!!! that video in the end its sooo funny


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## WAleks (Mar 26, 2008)

You won't die of hunger at Beijing Olympics... http://banooda.com/Important/BeijingFastFood.pdf


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## kix111 (Jun 14, 2007)

^^yes every single chinese loves every food listed in that pdf, they are so amazing!


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## OtAkAw (Aug 5, 2004)

^^Are those for real???


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## Pem (May 17, 2005)

WAleks said:


> You won't die of hunger at Beijing Olympics... http://banooda.com/Important/BeijingFastFood.pdf


this is a nice example of anti-chinese racism! are you proud of yourself?


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## WAleks (Mar 26, 2008)

noooo...
for God's sake! i am not a racist. i just thought it's funny, at least for me as a European, but i think i would never eat these things, but i mean...some people do...if it is their culture...i don't have a problem with that, i guess there are lots of things Chinese people would hate what we eat in Europe. I would never eat e.g. frog legs like many people do here as well..so...hahaha...it's just funny for me. i am sorry. i didn't mean any harm. peace


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## HKG (Aug 2, 2006)

Well lots of Chinese including my Dad dosen't like them either!
It's ok WAleks is not a racist !


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## Pem (May 17, 2005)

WAleks said:


> noooo...
> for God's sake! i am not a racist. i just thought it's funny, at least for me as a European, but i think i would never eat these things, but i mean...some people do...if it is their culture...i don't have a problem with that, i guess there are lots of things Chinese people would hate what we eat in Europe. I would never eat e.g. frog legs like many people do here as well..so...hahaha...it's just funny for me. i am sorry. i didn't mean any harm. peace


haha sorry i kinda scared you off  but the "happy olympics" thing at the end of the pdf went amiss... and yeah i do love frog legs :cheers:


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## WAleks (Mar 26, 2008)

hahahaaa
it is not my pdf, a friend of mine sent it to me and he found it in the Internet, it's just because we found it funny...in some way..but did not want to offend anyone!


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## WAleks (Mar 26, 2008)

maybe the one who made it had another view about it, maybe even racistic, i don't care, but...eeeewww how can you eat that guys!!?!?! hahaa


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## HKG (Aug 2, 2006)

No it is not racist,these foods you can find in the Wangfujing street in Beijing only!


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