# USA Sprawl Festival: January 1 to December 31



## AmherstMan (May 25, 2006)

I live in Suberbia. Its nice, shopping, easy to get a job, good places to eat, always something new, the list goes on.


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## degnaw (Jul 4, 2006)

^^ thats true only if you have a car and like spending a lot of time in it

Some of those pictures show extreme sprawl, but others actually looked very dense! (on a relativity basis, those are the densest sprawls ive seen). Ive lived in many places, usually in the suburbs, and it usually takes over 15 minutes just to reach the entrance of the neighborhood!


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

MORE!!!!! :banana:

*ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA*


















































































This one is my favorite.  So colorful! And decadent! 













































I have no idea what this was. It was next to the Seal Beach Naval Weapons Station. A mini-storage place? Some sort of prison? Navy barracks? I can't tell.


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## polako (Apr 7, 2005)

I love the Northern Dallas and Southern Orange County Sprawl. It is the result of upper-class Republicans fleeing to the ex-burbs thus creating perfect suburban surroundings. Irvine and Plano come to mind.


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## cmj2k2 (Aug 20, 2005)

more tar than someone who smokes 8 packs a day.


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## polako (Apr 7, 2005)

^Truth hurts, doesn't it?


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## salvius (Aug 4, 2004)

Fascinating, but ultimately culturally bereft and environmentally utterly irresponsible.


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## ronald (Dec 10, 2005)

*EU sprawl*

Thanks for your compilation, bond!
It shows that sprawl can be very different, depending on where you are. 

I'd like to make a contribution to this thread. Some people say that America needs more denser, _smart-growth_-type neighbourhoods. Just like they have in Europe. However, not all of Europe consists of these types of neighbourhoods. There is some serious urban sprawl in Europe aswell, and sometimes, it really resembles American sprawl! Just check out these pics:

Bremen, Germany:


Stuttgart, Germany


Cork, Ireland:




Leeds, England




Mansfield, England:


Really American, isn't it?


Nootdorp, close to The Hague in the Netherlands. 




Cul-de-sacs included (could it be any more American?)


The Copenhagen area:




Dobling, 6km from Vienna's historical center:


Marne La Valee, French sprawl in suburban Paris


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## streetscapeer (Apr 30, 2004)

great pics everyone


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## thryve (Mar 5, 2005)

^^ Well, those photos (apart from the German one) are exactly why nobody uses England as a smart-growth model, necessarily.

Anyways, hilarious thread title (took me a minute to understand because I'm a little slow time ta time) and cool pics.

-thryve


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## mhays (Sep 12, 2002)

European suburbia is generally much denser than US suburbia. The streets are generally much narrower, there are fewer parking spaces, and a much larger percentage of houses are the "close together" variety. Also, some of those UK photos showed duplexes, which are a large percentage of the "houses" in England.


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## ronald (Dec 10, 2005)

mhays said:


> European suburbia is generally much denser than US suburbia. The streets are generally much narrower, there are fewer parking spaces, and a much larger percentage of houses are the "close together" variety. Also, some of those UK photos showed duplexes, which are a large percentage of the "houses" in England.


I agree with that. 
European sprawl is, in general, incomparable to US sprawl. As those pics show, houses are closer together and there are fewer parking spaces indeed. Most houses are also smaller. Also, I think that the average middle class family home in Europe is 2-3 stories tall and narrower than the same type of home in the US, which are shorter but also more spread-out.


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## UnitedEurope (Jul 18, 2006)

I wonder what will happen to places like this when we run out of oil... If everyone starts to drive cars running on electricity then that would require an increased power generation capacity on an almost unimaginable scale. I cannot imagine any other power source than nuclear power that in could cover such a power demand in the long run, and I doubt anyone will invest hundreds of billions of dollars into power plants just to sustain the suburban way of life.


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## ronald (Dec 10, 2005)

I'm not sure if people will be willing to accept such massive use of nuclear power. Even though the chances an accident will happen are small, it's still there. Use of nuclear power is heavily protested in some countries.


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

Re: Europe vs American sprawl.

You have to remember that Europe, for the most part, is MUCH more crowded than the US. And where it *isn't* crowded (such as much of Scandiavia), typically it's pretty cold and not too many people would want to live there anyway. With a relative scarcity of space, Europeans *have* to use their land more effciently.

In America, we have much more developable land in comparison to our population. Going through local.live.com to get those aerials, in some of the metros (particularly Dallas-Ft Worth and Kansas City), I've just been *astounded* at how much undeveloped land is available. Maybe if and when the US gets to, like, 700 million people, we can talk about being as crowded as Europe.


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

*MORE* *MORE* *MORE* *MORE* *MORE* *MORE* *MORE . . . . . . .*

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*PHILADELPHIA*


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## illmatic774 (Jul 20, 2005)

damn, Philly's sprawl sucks.

keep it going though, im loving this.


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## thryve (Mar 5, 2005)

It's fascinating


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## Rockefeller (Jan 1, 2005)

I can't understand why people want to live like this! Thanks, but i'll take my shoebox condo over this nonsense any day.


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

*TUSCON*


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## steppenwolf (Oct 18, 2002)

What are your own feelings about Sprawl Bond? Youre clearly very interested in it to have collected all those pics, but what does the sight of it do for you or make you feel? I'd really love to know?


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## degnaw (Jul 4, 2006)

Bond James Bond said:


> You have to remember that Europe, for the most part, is MUCH more crowded than the US. And where it *isn't* crowded (such as much of Scandiavia), typically it's pretty cold and not too many people would want to live there anyway. With a relative scarcity of space, Europeans *have* to use their land more effciently.
> 
> In America, we have much more developable land in comparison to our population. Going through local.live.com to get those aerials, in some of the metros (particularly Dallas-Ft Worth and Kansas City), I've just been *astounded* at how much undeveloped land is available. Maybe if and when the US gets to, like, 700 million people, we can talk about being as crowded as Europe.


Canada probably has more *habitable* empty land than in the US, yet their suburbs are generally much more dense, especially in the very outer areas.



UnitedEurope said:


> I wonder what will happen to places like this when we run out of oil... If everyone starts to drive cars running on electricity then that would require an increased power generation capacity on an almost unimaginable scale. I cannot imagine any other power source than nuclear power that in could cover such a power demand in the long run, and I doubt anyone will invest hundreds of billions of dollars into power plants just to sustain the suburban way of life.


Everyones talking about hydrogen cars and the automakers have all recalled and cancelled their electric cars, but honestly, once the oil runs out we cant make cheap hydrogen (today its made from some fossil fuel) and we dont have enough non-oil power supplies to make it with electrolysis. :cheers: 
Of course, you could always ride your bike, but I doubt id like to ride 35+ miles (distance from here to city center)


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

steppenwolf said:


> What are your own feelings about Sprawl Bond? Youre clearly very interested in it to have collected all those pics, but what does the sight of it do for you or make you feel? I'd really love to know?


Well, some of the sprawlier stuff is rather wasteful, though I have no problems with the denser stuff.

But it's the patterns and, mostly, the sheer size and scale of it all which fascinates me. It's _endless_. I find it fascinating in the same way I would find a place like Coruscant fascinating: It's like this mega-machine civilization that just keeps going and going without end!


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## titeness (Jul 3, 2004)

Its all good till gas hits $6 a gallon, then you'll see a lot more suburban moms offering "favors" for gas money.


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## streetscapeer (Apr 30, 2004)

Bond James Bond said:


> Well, some of the sprawlier stuff is rather wasteful, though I have no problems with the denser stuff.
> 
> But it's the patterns and, mostly, the sheer size and scale of it all which fascinates me. It's _endless_. I find it fascinating in the same way I would find a place like Coruscant fascinating: It's like this mega-machine civilization that just keeps going and going without end!



I see the exact same thing....North American cities are huge and endless, the sheer size of human development is fascinating indeed. I'm always amazed when I'm leaving Miami to go on a road trip, I live on the southern end of the metro area and I don't end up leaving the whole metro area (full of dense suburbia a la Paris or LA) until an hour and half later (70+ miles). Amazing imo


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## sogod (Jul 12, 2004)

mhays said:


> European suburbia is generally much denser than US suburbia. The streets are generally much narrower, there are fewer parking spaces, and a much larger percentage of houses are the "close together" variety. Also, some of those UK photos showed duplexes, which are a large percentage of the "houses" in England.


Incomparable? Huh? Those pics of European sprawl look almost exactly as some of the American pics. In fact, quite a few of the American pics looked denser I would say (larger houses that are just as close together). I'd say that are very comparable. They are both, after all, sprawl, and if you don't have a car, your screwwwwwed.


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## RiversideGator (Dec 31, 2005)

A lot of those pics look like fairly dense suburban developments, i.e. houses close together on small lots. I dont see very many 1/2 to 1 acre lots in the pics which are the real land eaters. 

I think electrified streetcars could be used to service most of these neighborhoods if needed. I live in a 1920s suburban development about 3 miles from downtown Jacksonville and streetcars used to run about 2 blocks from my house all the way to downtown until the 1940s. It would be quite easy to bring those back and link them into a commuter rail system.


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## Æsahættr (Jul 9, 2004)

How beutiful, you've featured my suburb in your MPLS section.


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## mhays (Sep 12, 2002)

sogod said:


> Incomparable? Huh? Those pics of European sprawl look almost exactly as some of the American pics. In fact, quite a few of the American pics looked denser I would say (larger houses that are just as close together). I'd say that are very comparable. They are both, after all, sprawl, and if you don't have a car, your screwwwwwed.


I'm talking about "typical" rather than examples. Also, like I said, some of those pictures are actually showing duplexes. 

Also, much of that European stuff has pretty good transit, better than what most US suburbs have.


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## The Cebuano Exultor (Aug 1, 2005)

*Excess Beyond Compare...*

As I was watching these photos of American Sprawlburgs...I was amazed but at the same time saddened by the excessive suburbanization and exurbanization. 

American sprawl is the summation of everything that is environmentally unsustainable about the "American Dream".


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

*yay, more*

*ORLANDO*































































































































Aerial view of the local university. It almost reminded me of the rest of the sprawl.

While nice-looking, it seems rather generic. It reminded me of all the McPeople who live in the McHouses in these pics of Orlando's McSprawl who got their McDegree from this McUniversity so they can work in their McJobs and raise their 2 McKids and go to McChurch on Sunday. 

Oh yeah - and eat at McDonald's for lunch.


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## Kiss the Rain (Apr 2, 2006)

OMG now this is SERIOUSLY BAD, i knew sprawl was bad in the US, but ever expected this bad. How could one but feel sorry for all the poor guys living in those shitholes and thinking to themselves that they've done the american dream. Oh the poor mother earth, so much good land wasted. SERIOUSLY SOMEONE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS.


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## Sideshow_Bob (Jan 14, 2005)

Haha, it's horrible actually, but interresting to look at though..


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## fred_mendonca (Nov 11, 2005)

(edited)

Could you post more images please?


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## ronald (Dec 10, 2005)

fred_mendonca said:


> Mais algumas imagens


Could you please post in English here? I don't understand Spanish. Thank you!


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

^
Also when you (he) quote(s) a post with a lot of pics DO NOT include the actual pics. Thank you.


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## fred_mendonca (Nov 11, 2005)

ronald said:


> Could you please post in English here? I don't understand Spanish. Thank you!


By the way, it's not Spanish, it's Portuguese.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

I think Florida cities have the worst sprawl in the nation.


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## I-275westcoastfl (Feb 15, 2005)

^go to texas or somewhere else its worse

Suburbs are ok, i like suburbs in grids i hate the whole curvy dead end taking half an hour to get out of a sub division kind of suburbs. With a car any suburb is good basically. I was raised in a grid area of poor people and low middle class i liked it like that.


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## smartlake (Jul 11, 2004)

I live in sprawl, I don't really have a choice, as I live with my parents. Growing up in the suburbs is defininitely the ideal place for a family, I think. It is so much safer and the houses are so much nicer. I recently went into the city (Spokane, WA) and the decrepid state of the houses there alarmed me, and I constantly felt as if I were about to be robbed. I _am_ sheltered, though, and I try to like the city, but I like what I grew up in best.


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## ChicagoSkyline (Feb 24, 2005)

WOW, Bond James Bond, you are such suburban sprawl collector! Do you have any Naperville,IL sprawl pix for Chicago suburbs?
Crazy pix sprawls...:runaway:


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

^
Unfortunately they don't have any Chicago area coverage.


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## ChicagoSkyline (Feb 24, 2005)

Bond James Bond said:


> ^
> Unfortunately they don't have any Chicago area coverage.


hmm, interesting! Anytime soon? :cheers:


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## ChicagoSkyline (Feb 24, 2005)

Bond James Bond said:


> ^
> Unfortunately they don't have any Chicago area coverage.


Oops, you sure miss some of the true sprawl out here!:j/k:
Who are they?


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

^
"They" are local.live.com


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

*ATLANTA*

All of these were from Cobb and Gwinett counties - except maybe the first one which might have been in Sandy Springs




























Wal-Mart!!


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## ChicagoSkyline (Feb 24, 2005)

^^
Seriuos, ATL suburbs need to learn "how to take care of their lawn!" Looking at those ugly lawn, make me think that it is in winter or something!:runaway:

Anyway, wal-mart is the defacto retail store of suburban cities and towns...lol


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## mhays (Sep 12, 2002)

Lawn care is a destructive force in the US. In some places water is the problem, with watering useless lawns taking up astonishing amounts. Everywhere you go, the chemicals that people put on their lawns run off into streams, impacting everything from oceans to your many peoples' drinking water. Not to mention the chemicals your dog or kid ingests straight from your yard. 

Of course a lot of marketing energy is behind all this. Only a few public service ads going the opposite way.


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

ChicagoSkyline said:


> ^^
> Seriuos, ATL suburbs need to learn "how to take care of their lawn!" Looking at those ugly lawn, make me think that it is in winter or something!:runaway:


The pics were taken in winter, when the lawns were dormant.

Here's one of the Kansas City pics, taken in the spring. Note how lush and green the lawns are - as lawns tend to be in the spring:


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## ChicagoSkyline (Feb 24, 2005)

^^
 Now we are talking! Anyway, I didn't mean that we have to be too concious about our lawn and all, afterall, I really hate to pay all those water irrigation money by feeding those lawn tons of water, but this year has been bless so far with lots of moist so I am not worry about it because it is all natural!:cheer:


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## LordMandeep (Apr 10, 2006)

i dislike the suburbs that look sparkling clean and where all the houses are the same. 

In our suburb all the houses are different sizes and colours and are much closer to each other. PLus there is a little grit and the place isn't polishing clean. Its actually good because it makes the neighbourhood much more lively looking. 

I don't understand those massive spaces between the houses. You can still have massive homes with much smaller lots. 


High density Sprawl 
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=...&ll=43.753551,-79.739628&spn=0.00441,0.012102


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## degnaw (Jul 4, 2006)

woah, that second pic of georgia is extremely wierd (who would put a 12+ story building with a large parking garage in the middle of nowhere? Its obviously good ideology for not sprawling, but the location is...

I agree with Lord Mandeep, The only point of having a lawn is to make you feel rich and makes you mow it... Many people argue that kids use the lawns to exercise but the majority in my neighborhood do it in the streets (there are no cars anyways, much too boring). Although I was surprised to see that the GTA-an homes were so large, as they looked tiny from the air. Oh yeah, did I mention that the houses are so spread out because they have to be? That is right, The development must have a combined density of LESS THAN 1.8 units/acre, so if you want to build condos, which are in high demand, you must build large, spread out houses in the same area in order the have the 'hood approved.


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

degnaw said:


> woah, that second pic of georgia is extremely wierd (who would put a 12+ story building with a large parking garage in the middle of nowhere? Its obviously good ideology for not sprawling, but the location is...


There were actually some more buildings just beyond the borders of the picture.


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## I-275westcoastfl (Feb 15, 2005)

ChicagoSkyline said:


> ^^
> Seriuos, ATL suburbs need to learn "how to take care of their lawn!" Looking at those ugly lawn, make me think that it is in winter or something!:runaway:
> 
> Anyway, wal-mart is the defacto retail store of suburban cities and towns...lol


screw walmart there is a Speedzone in that pic!!! :colgate:


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## *Sweetkisses* (Dec 26, 2004)

LordMandeep said:


> i dislike the suburbs that look sparkling clean and where all the houses are the same.
> 
> In our suburb all the houses are different sizes and colours and are much closer to each other. PLus there is a little grit and the place isn't polishing clean. Its actually good because it makes the neighbourhood much more lively looking.
> 
> ...


I agree with you. The sterile look is not a good look at all.


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## ChicagoSkyline (Feb 24, 2005)

LordMandeep said:


> i dislike the suburbs that look sparkling clean and where all the houses are the same.
> 
> In our suburb all the houses are different sizes and colours and are much closer to each other. PLus there is a little grit and the place isn't polishing clean. Its actually good because it makes the neighbourhood much more lively looking.
> 
> ...


:runaway:
Those are some commie houses!


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## ChicagoSkyline (Feb 24, 2005)

I-275westcoastfl said:


> screw walmart there is a Speedzone in that pic!!! :colgate:


Yea, way too many commie walmarts! :runaway: 
LOL, we got that kind of fun park here too in Chicago burbs!:cheer:


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

I would love to see sprawl from Canada, Australia, SA, and other places.


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

LtBk said:


> I would love to see sprawl from Canada, Australia, SA, and other places.


Well, this thread is called "*USA* Sprawl Festival . . . "


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## LordMandeep (Apr 10, 2006)

COMMIE HOUSES....
Those all are around 300-400 K US! Thats quite the norm here.


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## Kiss the Rain (Apr 2, 2006)

James Bond, you have done a very good job presenting the US to the world in a not-so-good way, but we aplaude your honesty anyway.


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## marionacho (Mar 3, 2006)

It seems that there is no perfect choice. Suburban sprawl may have attached a few environmental costs, but I believe it is the citizens who have the ultimate right to choose the kind of city they want to live in. And if people in the US have chosen to live in the privacy of their low density developments, I think there is nothing regrettable in it.


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

Can somebody pleeeeease lock this thread? It's getting too big and I don't intend anyone to respond to it anymore.


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## elgooG (May 30, 2007)

Were the Philadelphia pictures taken around the Doylestown (Bucks County) area?


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## Nameless (Jul 8, 2004)

I don't see a problem. Some people would rather live in a nice house with a decent backyard.


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

Bond James Bond said:


> Can somebody pleeeeease lock this thread? It's getting too big and I don't intend anyone to respond to it anymore.


As I said - pleeeeeeeeeeese do not respond to this thread anymore! It's too big to download and look at the comments!


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