# Your thoughts on farmscrapers?



## RandomDude01 (Jan 27, 2016)

What are your thoughts on farmscrapers? I noticed that vertical farming is becoming more popular and I like the idea of growing food in skyscrapers. I would like to know what do you think about farmscrapers and will they be commonplace in the near future?


----------



## Mr Cladding (Aug 17, 2014)

Farmscrapers are absolutely essential in meeting the challenges posed by an increasingly urban population. To an extent we have them in London , however a first step would be to have mini-farms in towers instead of vanity gardens.


----------



## alexandru.mircea (May 18, 2011)

I saw a documentary about bees and according to it, bees don't have a problem with the car-generated pollution of cities, compared to the huge problem they have in the countryside because of the pesticides used in agriculture. City-grown honey is clean, hence rooftop hives are becoming more and more popular in Paris. There's a leading restaurant in this movement, they cook with honey exclusively of their own production.


----------



## pt24 (Feb 2, 2016)

It's the first time I heard about them and I want to inform myself. IMO farmscaper would be an good solution. In facts in Italy (and I think also all over the world) fields are threatened by cities building. And people don't understand the importance of farming. For example, the italian law allows cities buildings are located a few tens metres from farms, but farms have to be located handreds meters by cities buildings: it's nonsense. Farms are so damaged by law.

A new skyscraper is just been built in Milan: "Bosco Verticale" (Vertical Forest)
by Stefano Boeri. I can imagine it full of vegetable gardens .


----------



## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

*Bosco Verticale (Vertical Forest or Upright Forest)*
Milan (Porta Nuova district), Italy

*DESCRIPTION*
Bosco Verticale is a model for a sustainable residential building, a project for metropolitan reforestation that contributes to the regeneration of the environment and urban biodiversity without the implication of expanding the city upon the territory. It is a model of vertical densification of nature within the city that operates in relation to policies for reforestation and naturalization of large urban and metropolitan borders.

It's composed of two residential towers (111 m and 78 m height), host 900 trees (each measuring 3, 6 or 9 meters tall) and over 2,000 plants from a wide range of shrubs and floral plants that are distributed in relation to the façade’s position to towards the sun. On flat land, each Vertical forest equals, in amount of trees, an area equal o 7,000 sqm of forest. In terms of urban densification the equivalent of an area of single family dwellings of nearly 75,000 sqm. The vegetal system of the Bosco Verticale aids in the construction of a microclimate, produces humidity, absorbs CO2 and dust particles and produces oxygen.

*AWARDS*
* _*Best Tall Building 2015 - Europe (by CTBUH - The Council of Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat)*_

* _*International Highrise Award 2014 (by Frankfurt Museum of Architecture)*_
On November 19, 2014, the international jury for the prestigious “International Highrise Award”, promoted by the Frankfurt Museum of Architecture, has announced that Bosco Verticale of Milan is the winner of the prize that every two years is assigned to the most beautiful and innovative highrise in the world. 

The president Christoph Ingenhoven said: “Bosco Verticale is an expression of the human need for contact with nature. It is a radical and daring idea for the cities of tomorrow, and without a doubt represents a model for the development of densely populated urban areas in other European countries”. 

Its creator, Italian architect Stefano Boeri declared: “Bosco Verticale represents a new approach to the highrise building, where trees and humans share their living space. It is the first example worldwide of a tower that enhances the hosting city with plant and fauna biodiversity.”



















See more pics, info:
1) http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=867790
2) http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1816028


----------



## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

Here a proposed project designed by Proger, Systematica, ABDR, FOA and other consultants.
Milan’s Fruit Wholesale Market is one of the biggest in Italy. Currently there is the need for a renovation plan, aiming to reposition its facilities, services and, at a broader sense, its role at international level.

The vertical farm









The masterplan (490,000 sqm)


----------



## RandomDude01 (Jan 27, 2016)

^That looks really cool and I hope that it will be built someday.


----------



## Cloudship (Jun 8, 2005)

I think they are interesting. But, I don't see them as really viable for the future. For actual agriculture, it is really a waste in many ways. Structurally you have huge loads - you have to get all that soil and plant up there, and then back down when it dies off (nature is a cycle, not stagnant). Plus you are not going to have animal and insects living up their successfully- not enough space to support them, and the interactions with them and large populations is not healthy. Have you ever smelt a farm? They look bucolic in pictures - but what happens when it comes time to fertilize the garden?

I am all for the idea of green roofs and integrating more nature into our urban areas. But I think urban farms is really more capitalizing on romantic notions than practical means - I am worried it will have a negative effect - environmental issues with gardens high up in the air with high winds, stagnant crops and caged wildlife to support them, and drawing attention away from rural farming.

Overall, there are lots of sparsely populated areas on the planet, that can sustain life. The problem is we are trying to all squeeze into these cities. I think we need to address the issue with responsible farming, getting big business out of farming, and better crops and a holistic approach to farming.


----------



## Major Deegan (Sep 24, 2005)

"Farmscrapers" and vertical gardens are never going work. High altitude in combination with low temperature and inadequate lighting (half of your usable area remains in perpetual shadow!) create unfavorable conditions for any sort of commercially-viable crops. Developing agricultural technology makes it possible to get greater and greater yields out of existing land, so it is not like we are running out of farmland anytime soon.


----------



## reetasharma (Jan 22, 2015)

The plants create moisture harming the solid structure of the building and hence weakening the pillars which may result in frequent algae and requirement for painting the walls.


----------



## pt24 (Feb 2, 2016)

Re: difficult building of farmscrapers.

However, would it be possible to design the lowest high-rises with some levels totally hosting small crops, as for example vegetable gardens? IMO, yes. These buildings have to have particular features in order to avoid harming of the structure (features similar to green roofs), the best microclimate for the chosen plants, ect. A natural ventilation system can take away humidity and bad smells. I think there's a wide plants variety, hence it's possible choose the best plant for every level, every heigh, ect. A correct planning is clearly essencial.

It's difficult actually get on skyscrapers big crops, but IMO only the smaller ones. But this's a big success and progress.


----------



## Jon5738 (Oct 26, 2013)

Cloudship said:


> I think they are interesting. But, I don't see them as really viable for the future. For actual agriculture, it is really a waste in many ways. Structurally you have huge loads - you have to get all that soil and plant up there, and then back down when it dies off (nature is a cycle, not stagnant). Plus you are not going to have animal and insects living up their successfully- not enough space to support them, and the interactions with them and large populations is not healthy. Have you ever smelt a farm? They look bucolic in pictures - but what happens when it comes time to fertilize the garden?


Hydroponics doesn't use soil. Furthermore, an automated system would require less flooring, which would mean you could get many floors of crops for each floor of humans.

Hyroponics have been used for agronomic crops since the 1970s and the only reason it isn't bigger than it is is because of government farm subsidies. Petroleum is still cheap, which is a factor but one day sooner or later it won't be cheap to transport a load of wheat thousands of miles.


----------



## dreamgirl214 (Feb 24, 2016)

@IThomas that is stunning!

I love the design, it looks like a very relaxing environment.


----------



## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

:cheers:



IThomas said:


> *DOSSIER: Is Milan ready to build a vertical farm? *
> 
> After the international success of *Bosco Verticale* -the two residential towers with trees and shrubs on the facades, designed by Italian architect Stefano Boeri- replied in different places around the world, the City of Milan has in mind a new challenge: the Skyfarm.
> 
> ...


----------



## ThatOneGuy (Jan 13, 2012)

I will reserve my opinion until one is actually built. I love the Vertical Forest towers but no farms have been built.


----------



## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

The main problem now is how finance the project. A 80-100 meters farm-tower would be a great addition to 'green architecture' for sure. We'll see


----------



## Kyll.Ing. (Nov 26, 2012)

Another problem farmscrapers face, which hasn't been touched upon here: Heat.

Crops, or for that matter all plants on Earth, have evolved to grow in conditions representing natural sunlight. Ideal growth conditions are achieved at a solar incidence of roughly 1000 W/m2. 

The main drive behind farmscrapers is area efficiency. You should, ideally, get many square metres of plants per square metre of building footprint. But the sun will only supply those 1000 Watts per m2 of building footprint. Put more plants in the building than the footprint suggests, and at least some of them will have to make do with less than what the sun gives. The sun alone will not be enough to give light to more crops than you could plant within the walls of its ground floor.

Okay, fair enough, then you have to supply your own light. Rig up some lamps, turn them on, and watch those crops bloom. Except that you're now blasting your building with 1000 Watts per square metre of crops - which translates to thousands of Watts per square metre of floor area, if you stack plants. And your electricity bill will not be the biggest problem yet. That would be to get rid of all the heat. Watts of power is transferred to air with a heat capacity of watts per cubic metre per Kelvin, resulting in increased temperature. So now you'll have to supply cooling. _Now_, the electricity bill is your biggest problem. Compared to just ploughing up some idle land outside town, or at least just take your entire farm to one level on the rooftop, the farmscraper endeavour would be a costly affair.

Of course, there are workarounds. The plants will only make use of certain wavelengths in the solar spectrum to grow (otherwise, the plants would have been all black). You could cut all the artificial light from the non-essential wavelengths to save energy, that ought to save a couple dozen percent of the energy (this is why that big indoor lettuce farm in Singapore is lit with purple light).

You could also make use of a synergy effect. There are some buildings which would love to make use of some waste heat - most notably, swimming pools, since keeping so many cubic metres of water so high above room temperature is rather costly. With an efficient heat pump, you could also use the farm's waste heat to heat water for a nearby hotel or gym or sports center, whose showers tend to chug hot water like it's going out of fashion.

Or you could put the farmscraper somewhere cold, and let the cold outside air supply the required cooling. Of course, the trade-off is that you get less sunlight if you plan to make use of that, and you're not going to get most of your Watts back for any useful purposes, but at least you can use passive cooling.


But yeah, in a hot country whose energy supply mostly relies on fossil fuels, the energy consumption of a farmscraper would be a major problem, both cost-wise and environmentally. For such places, you might be better off farming traditionally, or at least not as intensive as a farmscraper typically does.


----------

