# Americans: what effect do foreign skylines have on you?



## OtAkAw (Aug 5, 2004)

Honestly, I'm an Asian and I feel better with American influences.


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## superchan7 (Jan 21, 2004)

A42251 said:


> I feel pride, because we Americans invented skyscrapers and now many other countries are copying us.


heh...so the people over in China should be proud because Americans are toting guns and launching fireworks and rockets, things that were invented over there hundreds of years ago...

Whether the skyscraper is an invention is debatable...people just built higher and higher because of land value.


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## algonquin (Sep 24, 2004)

superchan7 said:


> heh...so the people over in China should be proud because Americans are toting guns and launching fireworks and rockets, things that were invented over there hundreds of years ago...
> 
> Whether the skyscraper is an invention is debatable...people just built higher and higher because of land value.


thats certainly not true, on a few levels.

Skyscrapers are, in fact, a bundle of innovations and inventions, each one crucial to it's function. We wouldn't have skyscrapers without elevators, air conditioning, improvements in steel technology, steel construction (try building 20 stories with load bearing exterior brick walls) revolving doors, etc. And as buildings go higher, the problems are far more complex (ie: double-decker elevators and multiple shafts). I do beleive these are all American innovations.

Secondly, land value is only half the story. Hieght is a psychological acheivement.


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## Justadude (Jul 15, 2004)

I am amazed at the visual power of some Asian skylines. The first time I saw a pano of Hong Kong I thought I was dreaming. Shanghai, Tokyo and others also have stunning cityscapes. 

European skylines are usually more subtle, though. I like that Paris' old monuments still play a part in its visual appearance. London is beginning to move away from that kind of look.... even Big Ben and Nelson's Colum are beginning to look stumpy compared to Swiss Re and the Canary Wharf projects. But the Eye was a nice nod back to the days when public interest, not corporate power, drove the development of the skyline.


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## AcesHigh (Feb 20, 2003)

A42251 said:


> I feel pride, because we Americans invented skyscrapers and now many other countries are copying us.


The Pharos of Alexandria was the first skyscraper imho.

South American countries had skyscrapers in the 20s already (I know US had in the 1880s)


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## AcesHigh (Feb 20, 2003)

edsg25 said:


> i must admit that a good percentage of the "awe" i expressed on the intitial post had little to do with aestethics or the quality of the architecture. more than anything else, some of the pictures of massive skylines (albeit mundane and undoubtedly mostly residential) are just reminders to me of how large that world is beyond our shores.
> 
> i believe, for all our power and sheer size (and maybe because of them), we can get damned provencial about the rest of the world....and massive skylines in cities I've never heard of gives me quite a reality check on how competitve the world out there is with us....and what the implications of that will mean for our future.


so you are in awe with brazilian cities, cuz all of them have massive skylines (although rarely really awesome architecture)


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## MplsTodd (Apr 13, 2005)

I do think that American cities certainly were well-known for high-rises before other nation's cities. However, I think that over time, other cities are catching up and in some cases moving beyond our skylines. The US still has many world-class cities (Boston, NYC, Chicago, San Fran, Seattle, Miami,etc), but we also have some cities that have an impressive skyline but not much else in the heart of the city (think of Dallas or Houston) as they are so suburbanized. In contrast, cities in other countries are more centralized and, in addition to having a growing skyline, also have an incredible sense of vitality too.

PS: I realize that both Dallas and Houston have made improvements to the vitality of their downtowns in recent years, but they hardly compare to European cities.


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## fox1 (Apr 27, 2003)

guys... here's the straight talk.

yes, you bet! American cities, as a general idea, and I should really say *America* itself IS seen by the entire world as *the* home of the skyscraper. It's pretty simple really. Empire State Building> you get the idea. The world knows the story. Old New York (and to a lesser extent Chicago) is forever imprinted in history and in the minds of people everywhere as the birth of the skyscraper.........


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## Justadude (Jul 15, 2004)

MplsTodd said:


> I do think that American cities certainly were well-known for high-rises before other nation's cities. However, I think that over time, other cities are catching up and in some cases moving beyond our skylines. The US still has many world-class cities (Boston, NYC, Chicago, San Fran, Seattle, Miami,etc), but we also have some cities that have an impressive skyline but not much else in the heart of the city (think of Dallas or Houston) as they are so suburbanized. In contrast, cities in other countries are more centralized and, in addition to having a growing skyline, also have an incredible sense of vitality too.
> 
> PS: I realize that both Dallas and Houston have made improvements to the vitality of their downtowns in recent years, but they hardly compare to European cities.


On the other hand, many of the cities that are rapidly centralizing and becoming skyscraper forests are also dealing with severe problems of human crush. Poverty, disease, and pollution are far higher in most of these places than in Dallas or Houston. In American cities, skyscrapers are often built as monuments of engineering, virtually pieces of art (look at the Houston skyline). In many other places, they are built as a means of simply stacking people on top of one another in the most compact and efficent manner possible (look at the Hong Kong skyline). "Vitality" is a very ambiguous term; until recently Kowloon was simultanously the most interesting and the most depressed part of Hong Kong.


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## chasedwar (Dec 7, 2004)

it is indeed true that many americans believe that USA is the centre of the universe. 
there are many reasons for this, we cant really blame them.
firstly the US is a vast country, a continent in its own right. every kind of climate and terrain can be found there, and people do travel large distances by car.
2nd most americans never leave the safety of their own country. the ones that do are usually in their 40s because they can afford it.
3rd what are the options, where to go? south American.... too dangerous
further North upto Canada, but that pretty much the same as the US.
either side are huge Oceans. expensive 5 or 6 hour flights.

Its niave to think that all americans are either stupid inbred country folk, bible bashers, red necks, white trailer trash or any other stereotypes. they all have a basic understanding of where they came from and the old worlds of Europe and the founding fathers.
I like to think that the average educated american has some idea about what is happening around the world today.
You will find it tough when China overtakes you as the worlds largest economy 
i hope you dont start a war with them though 

someone said that Asian cities are building skylines overnight. they may well be, but at least there is a valid reason for them. Mass migration to the cities (as per the wests industrial revolution of the 19th C. there are many Cities in the US that have a decent skyline with a tiny population of less than 1million. after 5pm the centres are ghost towns. SO WHO IS BUILDING SS FOR FUN?


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## sogod (Jul 12, 2004)

Id say it makes me proud, because it shows that, again, American culture, in the form of skyscrapers, wins.

If the whole world looks more and more like America, skyscrapers and all, can you really say that the 21st century is anything but another American century?


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

The assyrians where the first ones to use wheels, everybody uses weels now, does it mean we are all assyrians?


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## crazyjoeda (Sep 10, 2004)

A42251 said:


> I feel pride, because we Americans invented skyscrapers and now many other countries are copying us.


Americans originally built the tallest highrises and called them skyscrapers, but thats not really inventing. Other countries building tall buildings isnt copying because the need to build up is universal. Today the very tallest buildings no longer call the USA home.


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## algonquin (Sep 24, 2004)

virtual said:


> The assyrians where the first ones to use wheels, everybody uses weels now, does it mean we are all assyrians?


no, it just means we're 'copying' them.. LOL


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## fox1 (Apr 27, 2003)

sogod said:


> Id say it makes me proud, because it shows that, again, American culture, in the form of skyscrapers, wins.


ok... but still, really my friend, this statement and this opinion (while I sort of get it, if I really try) it still strikes me as kind of weird and insular and (mostly severely-lacking-in-an-idea of the real world



> If the whole world looks more and more like America, skyscrapers and all, can you really say that the 21st century is anything but another American century?


yet to be seen!


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## expat_marla (Feb 22, 2005)

sogod said:


> Id say it makes me proud, because it shows that, again, American culture, in the form of skyscrapers, wins.
> 
> If the whole world looks more and more like America, skyscrapers and all, can you really say that the 21st century is anything but another American century?


As an american living overseas, its this ^^ kind of thinking that makes me cringe. 

sogod.... what is it that is being 'won'? and furthermore, why would you want the world to look more and more like the US (not that the US looks bad)?


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## tanklv (Mar 14, 2009)

*Aparently the repuke idiot palin can see russia from alaska*

but I can barely see Toronto from Buffalo...

she's pretty "amazing"...

she also give's beauty queens a bad name.

actually, she gives ALL women a bad name...

thank god we dodged THAT idiot...

but they keep talking about her...

god help us all...


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

^^ You can see Toronto from Buffalo? I can't. Niagara Falls sure, but not Toronto. :dunno:


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## Dimethyltryptamine (Aug 22, 2009)

This thread = myheadissofarupmyass. That's what you all are known for 

No offense intended... of course


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## dnobsemajdnob (Jan 29, 2009)

i_am_hydrogen said:


> A lot of foreign skylines make me feel envious and jealous. I want them here. I really like that "mega-city" look of cities such as Sao Paulo, Tokyo, Shanghai, and Buenos Aires, for example.


Just move 1,500 km east to NY then.


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## socrates#1fan (Jul 1, 2008)

pbrdpbrd said:


> Americans would rather live and work in a low rise building than in a skycraper. After the 9/11 twin towers attack who is comfortable working or living in a skycraper. I know that Chicago and New York for historical reasons are 2 exceptions to the rule but if you travel all over America you will see that the vast majority of people live in one or two story homes and work in one or two story office buildings. Remember I said the vast majority....here and there you will find some skycrapers in the downtown of cities but the vast majority does not work in them.


True, at least in my region most people live in 1-2 story single wood (sometimes brick or the unbearable mix of brick and wood) frame homes of a ‘modern’ variation of traditional American homes.
Cities with 100’000 people may not have any high-rises at all.


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## xXFallenXx (Jun 15, 2007)

socrates#1fan said:


> True, at least in my region most people live in 1-2 story single wood (sometimes brick or the unbearable mix of brick and wood) frame homes of a ‘modern’ variation of traditional American homes.
> Cities with 100’000 people may not have any high-rises at all.


Temecula has 100,700 people in it, and it's tallest is 5 stories! :happy:...hno:


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## ThatDarnSacramentan (Oct 26, 2008)

xXFallenXx said:


> Temecula has 100,700 people in it, and it's tallest is 5 stories! :happy:...hno:


Elk Grove is entirely two story houses and strip malls and it passed 100k.


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## Jardoga (Feb 9, 2008)

Xusein said:


> Australian cities kind of give me a California or Florida vibe. Obviously because of the more subtropical climate. Heavily dissimilar to most other US cities though, Australian skylines seem to be newer looking than many of the skylines here too perhaps because the ones here developed earlier.


Depends on what city you look at, cities like Sydney, Gold Coast, and Brisbane yes, but if you look at other cities like Melbourne (which has a cooler climate) you will see that it looks a lot more European in terms of architecture, but still has many skyscrapers.

I noticed on google street view many American cities don't have very good inner city areas ( in terms of strip shops, cafes, restaraunts, clubs etc) , they seem to be more of just a middle ring suburbia with an occasional commerical zone just here and there, whereas Australian cities inner city areas have these and give off a great inner city vibe.


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

desertpunk said:


> What are you talking about? What constitutes "average"? True, our cities are not larded with new airports because the ones we built in the 1970s and '80s are quite adequate. Where new expansion is needed, what some countries can build for a few million dollars such as a runway can cost $2 billion here. A new terminal can cost as much as $4 billion and an entirely new airport might cost $6-10 billion here, not the $400-800 million that other countries pay. Sorry everything isn't brand new: I guess we just don't feel like spending hundreds of billions on new airports to impress visitors. The poverty and homelessness issue isn't the fact that we have such a problem and other societies don't, it's that our problem is VISIBLE because we haven't made the commitment to either institutionalize the mentally ill and keep them off the streets, or because we don't have a social safety net derived from 50% income taxes and a minimal defense budget; which this year alone, would free up $650 billion plus another $1 trillion in additional taxes to spend on sanitizing our cities of the visible poor and homeless.hno:


Nothing wong with "average". Didn't say American cities are crap or shitty. Being average in the developed world is pretty good on a global scale.


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

Jardoga said:


> Depends on what city you look at, cities like Sydney, Gold Coast, and Brisbane yes, but if you look at other cities like Melbourne (which has a cooler climate) you will see that it looks a lot more European in terms of architecture, but still has many skyscrapers.
> 
> I noticed on google street view many American cities don't have very good inner city areas ( in terms of strip shops, cafes, restaraunts, clubs etc) , they seem to be more of just a middle ring suburbia with an occasional commerical zone just here and there, whereas Australian cities inner city areas have these and give off a great inner city vibe.


Well that very much depends on the American city and the neighborhood. There are large hoods in Chicago, Boston, S.F., Philly etc. which can have a great dense mix. However _very_ generally your observation is correct. 

Aussie cities on average do have a more cohesive vibe. Not on a European type level but more then the average American one.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

Older cities like Boston, Washington DC, Milwaukee, Chicago, New York etc have good inner city areas while younger ones like Atlanta, Charlotte, and Miami don't. Personally, I like European cities better but the US has good cities.


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## socrates#1fan (Jul 1, 2008)

Our cities are unique if you ask me!  ^^

Though I wish they were healthier. =/


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## Jakarta (Dec 15, 2009)

Hello guys, im from indonesia...
US Cities vs China Cities (Number of highrise above 10 stories)

New York 7.750
Chicago 1.100
Los Angeles 560
San Fransisco 550
Honolulu 525
Houston 490
Philadelphia 390
Dallas 350
Boston 305
Washington 300
Miami 291
Atlanta 259
Arlington 215
Seattle 215
Denver 211
Detroit 197
Minneapolis 190
San Diego 181
Baltimore 170
Las Vegas 168
Miami Beach 156
St Louis 155
Fort Lauderdale 141
Kansas City 133
Pittsburg 129
Cincinnati 118
Nashville 112
Cleveland 111
Newark 107
Jersey City 99
San Antonio 98
San Juan 98
Indianapolis 92
Portland 91
Milwaukee 89
Columbus 88
Phoenix 85
Charlotte 82
Austin 78
Aventura 78
Alexandria 72
Memphis 69
Oakland 69
Long. Beach 66

Hongkong 7.600
Shanghai 1.100
Macau 560
Chongqing 550
Guangzhou 520
Wuhan 480
Beijing 400
Shenzhen 360
Tianjin 290
Xiamen 260
Shenyang 180
Hangzhou 180
Xian 170
Chengdu 165
Dalian 156
Harbin 143
Qingdao 137
Jinan 120.
Nanjing 100
Shijiazhuang 100
Fuzhou 95
Zigong 90
Dongguan 86
Wuxi 80
Zhuhai 80
Guiyang 80
Foshan 74
Changsa 72
Nanchang 68
Zhengzhou 64
Ningbo 62
Kunming 59
Jiangmen 55
Nanning 54
Urumqi 50
Suzhou 50

So:banana::banana:

10 best skyline US cities equal wih 10 best skyline China cities, but US second cities still win agains china second cities


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## Bruton (Jan 31, 2009)

I'm sorry, but Shanghai has way more. What are the parameters being used?


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## Bruton (Jan 31, 2009)

LtBk said:


> Older cities like Boston, Washington DC, Milwaukee, Chicago, New York etc have good inner city areas while younger ones like Atlanta, Charlotte, and Miami don't. Personally, I like European cities better but the US has good cities.


I was very surprised about Charlotte. It's downtown was much more active than I would expect.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

Too bad the city is mostly suburban.


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

LtBk said:


> Older cities like Boston, Washington DC, Milwaukee, Chicago, New York etc have good inner city areas while younger ones like Atlanta, Charlotte, and Miami don't. Personally, I like European cities better but the US has good cities.


 Agreed. I consider on average European cities to be much more aesthetically pleasing and cohesive then NA, SA, or Asian cities. Doesn't mean that NA and Asia don't have some rather kick asse cities, character, and urban gems. Even though I stylistically like European cities it would be a pity to have other continents to greatly resemble them.


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## foadi (Feb 15, 2006)

Bruton said:


> I'm sorry, but Shanghai has way more. What are the parameters being used?


it's emporis stuff. user-updated. they don't have accurate figure for developing countries.


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## foadi (Feb 15, 2006)

xXFallenXx said:


> Temecula has 100,700 people in it, and it's tallest is 5 stories! :happy:...hno:


that tends to happen in exurbs.

it amazes me how much temecula has changed since i moved away. glad my family left though, i hated it there. i feel sorry for you.


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## null (Dec 11, 2002)

foadi said:


> it's emporis stuff. user-updated. they don't have accurate figure for developing countries.



He's a Danish troll, just ignore him.

Can someone tell me how a city like this (Nanjing) has only 100 hi-rises?


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

I don't think Bruton is Danish. He sounds more like an American.


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## desertpunk (Oct 12, 2009)

Why wouldn't China's cities have more talls? High rises resolve a lot of land use issues, especially for a population that large. Picture China if they developed the way americans do: there would be no available land for anything it would be so carpeted with suburban tract houses. China is doing things right. It's America with nearly 310,000,000 people that has to rethink our cities.


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## foadi (Feb 15, 2006)

china has more highrises desertman, it's all useless outdated info


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## null (Dec 11, 2002)

LtBk said:


> I don't think Bruton is Danish. He sounds more like an American.


I mean Jakarta.


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## fish.01 (Jul 7, 2009)

dnobsemajdnob said:


> I love China, but cities like HK and Shanghai will never have buildings like this. They're from another era and won't be replicated.


Though I don't think Shanghai is totally devoid of old style high rise charm:










They need to be impressive as they are facing off across the river with this:










(Both from Wikipedia)


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## ano369ther (Dec 24, 2009)

Great content and very helpful thank and keep up the good work.


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