# City in the world with the best transport SYS.



## Bitxofo

Alargule said:


> Anyway, maybe it'd be fair if everyone here _at least_ motivated his/her choice (instead of just shouting 'Tokyo!' 'London!' 'Madrid!')...


Tokyo is the best metro and train system among the networks I have visited: 60 approx.
:yes:
And it is far ahead from the 2nd in the list: London.


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## DonQui

Tokyo because of coverage, density, and quality. 

Case closed.


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## Dallas star

Ok any other cities besides to tokyo how about london,dubai,newyork,chicago,singapore,bejiing,
newdelhi,losangelos,seattle,portland,berlin,paris,london,
prague,rotterdam,cairo,johannesburg,washintonD.C


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## kashyap3

what exactly is Tokyo's average ridership per day?


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## Dallas star

off wikipedia
The Tokyo Subway (地下鉄 chikatetsu) is one of the world's most extensive metro/subway systems. The two primary networks are operated by

Tokyo Metro Co. Ltd (formerly Teito Rapid Transit Authority [Eidan]), 8 lines. The lines are called Tokyo Metro in English. Minimum price for one ride: 160 yen. 
Tokyo Metropolitan Bureau of Transportation (Toei), 4 lines. The lines are called Toei Subway in English. Minimum price for one ride: 170 yen. 
Several other railways in the capital, notably the Tokyo Waterfront Railway, also qualify as metro (subway) by most definitions.

The Tokyo Subway often has direct service to other types of train lines including JR and private lines such as the Keio, Odakyu, and Tobu lines.

It is important to not confuse the Tokyo Subway with Japan Rail (JR), which charges a separate fee from the Toei and other private lines.

On April 1, 2004, the Teito Rapid Transit Authority (TRTA) was privatized and renamed the Tokyo Metro Co. Ltd (東京地下鉄株式会社, Tōkyō Chikatetsu K.K.). The company also uses the name Tokyo Metro (東京メトロ) in Japanese for promotional purposes.

The privatization affected only the TRTA, and the Tokyo Metropolitan Government continues to operate its own Toei lines separately. (The word toei (都営) means "metropolitan-operated.")


Train at Shinjuku stationThe separate administration of two metro systems in the same city causes several inconveniences for customers:

The same ticket cannot be used on both systems. An additional 90 or 100 yen is charged to switch to the other system regardless of the length of the ride. However, the PASSNET system gets around such issues, by allowing one stored-fare card to be used on most of the rail operators in the Greater Tokyo Area (with the noticeable exception of JR East which uses its own Suica system). The introduction of PASMO in 2007 will finally produce one unified stored fare for most of the Tokyo transit system. 
The two systems represent the metro network differently in station, train and customer information diagrams. For example, the Toei map represents the Toei Oedo Line as a circle in the centre, implying a key function for Tokyo's whole public transport system; the Tokyo Metro's map saves the central ring line for the marunouchi line and JR Yamanote Line. 
Currently (as of September 2005), there are 168 train stations operated by Tokyo Metro, with an average of 5.69 million passengers per day. They employ 8,721 staff, and the busiest station is Shinjuku (which is also the world's busiest, and second largest, with an estimated traffic of 2 million passengers per day).


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## Cartel

cfloryan said:


> I think The question "Which city has the best transportation system?" doesn't refer to just public transit (then it would have written "which city has the best public transit?").
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the original intention was to consider all forms of transportation, namely roads and public transit


I can olnly judge from the cities I myself have experienced. In terms of public transport I was most impressed with Hong Kong and Los Angeles.
Also an unlikley candidate, Cairo. On top of the metro and huge train network there are immense numbers of taxis, mostly peugots and ladas, where you can pay as little as $1 USD for a half an hour ride across the city,to your exact destination avoiding all the queues.


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## kashyap3

Wikipedia on Tokyo Metro's Daily Ridership said:


> 5.69 million passengers per day


well it doesnt seem extraordinary

many cities have the same/similar ridership numbers, if not greater


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## Meleager

sorry. Delete this.


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## ♣628.finst

cfloryan said:


> In light of this, my nominations are:
> - Calgary
> - Frankfurt
> - Madrid
> - Houston
> - Dallas


Calgary? Yes it has a very efficient transport system, yet it's far from the best around the world.

Frankfurt... I had never thought it's among the best though.

Madrid--- certainly Madrid's metro is the most efficient around the world--- extensive system throughout its large downtown and its outskirts.

Houston--- I would definitely disagree with this... it's among the worst among developed large cities.

Dallas--- I would say that's mediocre...

In my opinion, the top 5 are:

1- Hong Kong
2- Madrid
3- Vancouver
4- Tokyo
5- Edmonton


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## sravan2569

Mumbai Suburban Railway system, part of the public transportation system of Mumbai, is provided for by the state-run Indian Railways' two zonal Western Railways and Central Railways. The system carries *more *than *6.1 million* commuters on a *daily basis* and constitutes more than half of the total daily passenger capacity of the Indian Railways itself. *It has the highest passenger density of any urban railway system in the world.*

The Mumbai Suburban Railway, as well as Indian Railways, are an offshoot of the first railway to be built by the British in India in April 1853. This was also the oldest railway system in Asia. The first train ran between Mumbai and Thane, a distance of 34 km. The Bombay Railway History Group [1] has been striving to document railway heritage along this line.

Given the geographical spread of the population and location of business areas, the rail network is the principal mode of mass transport in Mumbai.
Contents
[hide]

* 1 The System
* 2 Mumbai Railway Vikas Corporation (MRVC)
* 3 Zones and Corridors
o 3.1 Western Line
o 3.2 Central Line
o 3.3 Harbour Line
* 4 World Record Passenger Traffic Density
* 5 Overcrowding
* 6 Fatalities
* 7 List of stations
o 7.1 Western line
o 7.2 Central (Main) line
o 7.3 Harbour line
o 7.4 Diwa-Vasai Road Corridor
* 8 Coaches
* 9 Pictures of Local trains
* 10 See also
* 11 External links

[edit]

The System

The Suburban Railway system in Mumbai is one of the most complex and intensively utilised public transportation systems in the world. Spread over 303 route kilometres, it operates on 1500 V DC power supply from overhead catenary lines. The suburban services are run by electric multiple units (EMUs). 184 rakes (train sets) of 9-car and 12-car composition are utilised to run 2067 train services, which carry 6.1 million passengers every day.


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## Vapour

kashyap3 said:


> well it doesnt seem extraordinary
> 
> many cities have the same/similar ridership numbers, if not greater


That figure is only for the "Tokyo Metro" railway company. The combined ridership of all railway operators in Tokyo is around 36 million daily.


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## Dallas star

Wow 36 Mill thts like more than 3/4 of the intire city


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## Dallas star

Does sauo pauolo i know i spelled that wrong,have a metro,and bus


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## kashyap3

Vapour said:


> That figure is only for the "Tokyo Metro" railway company. The combined ridership of all railway operators in Tokyo is around 36 million daily.


can we get some stats of combined riderships of other cities?


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## Dallas star

Guys common we get it Tokyo has a lot of ridership now lets move on and talk about cities other than Tokyo


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## Chicagoago

Chicago isn't the best in the world, but very healthy for the United States. I can go anywhere I want in the city without too much hassle. 

Chicago Transit Authority:

2,273 route miles on the bus system
12,000 bus stops
153 routes throughout the city

222 miles of elevated/subway rail track
144 rail stations
service to both airports

Metra Rail ( commuter rail )

230 rail stations throughout the 6 country region
495 miles of track on 11 routes

Pace Suburban Bus Service

240 fixed routes
services 220 communities in the Chicagoland area

A total of 393 bus routes and 374 rail stations.


CTA Rail Map....









which is overlaid and expanded by Metra:


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## Dallas star

Nice map 
Seattle Monorail


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## Tricky

I can't believe that someone has put up Sydney and Melbourne on this thread... their public transport system clearly sucks!!!.... though Melbourne's is far better than Sydney's.

In terms of affordability, efficiency, cleanliness and availability throughout the city, BERLIN is certainly missing - Berlin has one of the best public transport systems in the world (even better than London or Paris - clearly the best in Germany, so stuff Frankfurt). The one thing Berlin lacks is a good airport system - but other than that it's transport system is pretty damn good (new central station, ring system of suburban trains, a huge (day & night) bus, tram and subway-system, that is very well integrated!

Haven't been to many US or Asian cities, but I believe that in the US, only New York or Chicago would qualify for this thread, and in Asia probably Hong Kong & Tokyo. ... not sure about Singapore (not much there in terms of public transport), and cities like Bangkok, Shanghai & Seoul are still very much struggling with traffic congestion due to too many cars and not enough public transport options.


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## Tricky

The Berlin transport system may not be the biggest in size (in terms of number of subway lines, stations or kilometer length), however, it is probably one of the best INTEGRATED systems in the world - and it works!!! There is only a few cities in the world where actually CAN quite comfortably live without a car and still be very mobile around the whole city. 

Check these links for detailed plans of *BERLIN* 

Suburban & Subway trains
http://www.bvg.de/index.php/en/Common/Document/field/file/id/1398

Tram
http://www.bvg.de/index.php/en/Common/Document/field/file/id/1399

24/7 public transport options
http://www.bvg.de/index.php/en/Common/Document/field/file/id/2012


*The Berlin metro (U-Bahn)*

*The largest metro system in Germany*
The Berlin metro (U-Bahn) is one of the most modern subway systems in all of Europe, and the most extensive public transport network of this type in Germany

The Berlin metro system is well known for its high levels of performance and its emphasis on environmental responsibility.

Its nine lines extend a total of 151.7 kilometers, and serve 170 stations.

The Berlin metro system is used by more than one million people every day. Every year, its trains carry 400 million passengers. It accounts for roughly half of the transport volume provided by the Berliner Verkehrsbetriebe.

*Facts and figures*
The trains of the Berlin metro system clock around 400,000 kilometers every weekday. That adds up to 132 million kilometers every year. We could also say that on average, the trains circle the globe nine times every single day.

The average speed of the metro trains is 30.7 kilometers per hour. During rush hour, trains currently run at 3 or 5-minute intervals. 

By the way, you can use every cell phone network while on our trains or in our stations. You can also charge your cell phone at all of our BVG ticket machines.

*The "MetroNetz"*
A tram and bus-based core city network not to be confused with the underground metro. To supplement the metro (U-Bahn) and urban rail (S-Bahn) systems, a tram and bus-based core city network was expanded and renamed the "MetroNetz" in 2004. 

This expansion transport network shortens travel times for passengers.

The lines run at least 20 hours a day at 10-minute intervals, often at even shorter intervals. The "MetroNetz" system consists of trams, which are called "MetroTrams", and buses, which are called "MetroBuses". This core city network also includes twelve "ExpressBus" lines.

*The largest tram network in Germany*
BVGTrams are a major feature of the landscape in many parts of the city, and no one would think of eliminating the yellow carriages anymore these days.

In 1994, the BVG launched a comprehensive modernization project for its tram division. More than ten years later, the tram system - the largest in Germany, by the way - now displays some truly impressive features. 

*Advantages of the tram*
Trams feature outstanding speed, safety, punctuality and reliability.
Cleanliness, comfort, wheelchair accessibility and environmental friendliness are also taken for granted these days. The routes are clearly laid out and based on demand, and the division also prizes the economic efficiency of its tram operation. 

*Facts and figures*
There are 187.7 kilometers of tram tracks in Berlin. Added together, the 28 daytime lines and 5 nighttime lines cover a total length of 430 kilometers. The combined distance traveled every day by the Berlin trams corresponds to circling the globe 1.3 times. 

A total of 171 million passengers are carried on 1.3 million trips every year. Or 560,000 passengers take a total of 5,300 tram trips every day. 

The trams serve 789 stops, which means one stop every 459 meters. 

They run at an average speed of 19.2 kilometers per hour. 

Extending 431 kilometers, the overhead wiring system for the trams is fixed on 6,809 pylons as well as approximately 2,000 building mounts. It supplies electricity not only to the carriages but also to the point heaters, switch controls, and signal systems as well as lighting facilities at some of the stops. 

*Ferries*
You can use your BVG ticket on six ferry lines operated by our partner companies. They run every day on 6.9 kilometers of water routes in the city.

*S-Bahn* 
The Berlin S-Bahn is a metro system operated by S-Bahn Berlin GmbH, a subsidiary of the Deutsche Bahn. The Berlin S-Bahn consists of 16 lines and is integrated with the mostly underground U-Bahn to form the backbone of Berlin's rapid transport system. Although the S- and U-Bahn are part of a unified fare system, they have different operators: the U-Bahn is run by BVG, the main public transit company for the city of Berlin.

The S-Bahn routes all feed into one of three core lines: a central, elevated east-west line (die Stadtbahn), a central, mostly underground north-south line (die Nord-Süd Bahn), and a circular, elevated line (die Ringbahn). Geographically, the Ringbahn takes the form of a dog's head and colloquially known to Berliners by that name (Hundekopf). Outside the Ringbahn, suburban routes radiate out in all directions.


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## Phil

Regarding daily ridership, here are some figures for Paris :
Transilien and RER (trains) : 2.9 million 
Metro : 3.65 million
Buses : 3.26 million
Tram/Val/lighrail : 0.16 million

total : about 10 million passengers a day.


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## Tintin27

Singapore MRT network is one of the best in Asia. They are currently building Circle line which will be completed by 2010. Stations are very well integrated with the LRT network in some new towns, new upcoming monorail network for Sentosa. Bus interchanges for feeder routes are also very well integrated with the MRT station with Ez Card which is similar to HK's Octopus card.. 
http://urbanrail.net/as/sing/singapore.htm


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## ignoramus

Dallas star said:


> How about Singapore anybody have any pics!!!


Its not perfect but its certainly worth mentioning. The backbone of the *public transportation system* comprises of:

*1. Mass Rapid Transit (MRT)*
64 Operating Stations
Newest Fleet - 2003









*2. Light Rapid Transit (LRT)*
31 Operating Stations
Newest Fleet - 2003









*3. Bus*
Newest Fleet - 2006









*Taxi*
Newest Fleet - 2000s









*Fares For 1, 2 & 3 Paid Via The ezlink Contactless Smart Card*
Since April 2002


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## Dallas star

Nice pics what city has the easeist public transportation system to get to and from the airport. Dallas,Hong Kong,and Atlanta are on my list what do you think.


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## Dallas star

Also what city in the world has the safest transpotation system.


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## Dallas star

Common anybody


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## Tintin27

Dallas star said:


> Nice pics what city has the easeist public transportation system to get to and from the airport. Dallas,Hong Kong,and Atlanta are on my list what do you think.


Kuala lumpur, New Bangkok airport coming up at Suvaranabhumi... All have airport express trains like HK connecting to the main Central hub..


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## SE9

Dallas star said:


> Nice pics what city has the easeist public transportation system to get to and from the airport. Dallas,Hong Kong,and Atlanta are on my list what do you think.


Quite a few cities have train links from airport to city. London has the Heathrow Express - non stop from Heathrow to Central London in 15 minutes, as well as the Gatwick Express:


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## Yardmaster

Singapore and HK have good transport systems where they are available, but compared to major cities like Tokyo, Paris, London, or New York, their coverage is limited. And it's all very well to say "what about the hills?": that isn't the point.

Singapore's MRT works fine: provided you're next to a MRT line. When I was in Singapore I asked many people for a "bus map", i.e. a map that showed where each bus-route travelled.

I was was met with blind incomprehension, both at relevant retail outlets, and from my acquaintances. The best I got was a book of bus timetables, from which I had to work out, by trial and error, which bus routes were closest and most convenient to my intended destination at the intended time.

The idea of putting bus-routes- with their route numbers- on a map seemed totally incomprehensible to everyone I spoke to. I was left to my own devices.

After I left Singapore, I wrote to the Ministry of Transport about this. I also submitted copies of maps of my own city, to show how (if you couldn't think for yourself) bus routes could be indicated on a metropolitan map. All I got back from the Singaporean Government was "We have received your email and will consider it", or words to that effect.

Singapore's transport system is fine ... provided you don't need to go further than walking distance from an MRT or LRT station (and that's not much of Singapore).


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## ignoramus

Yardmaster said:


> Singapore and HK have good transport systems where they are available, but compared to major cities like Tokyo, Paris, London, or New York, their coverage is limited. And it's all very well to say "what about the hills?": that isn't the point.
> 
> Singapore's MRT works fine: provided you're next to a MRT line. When I was in Singapore I asked many people for a "bus map", i.e. a map that showed where each bus-route travelled.
> 
> I was was met with blind incomprehension, both at relevant retail outlets, and from my acquaintances. The best I got was a book of bus timetables, from which I had to work out, by trial and error, which bus routes were closest and most convenient to my intended destination at the intended time.
> 
> The idea of putting bus-routes- with their route numbers- on a map seemed totally incomprehensible to everyone I spoke to. I was left to my own devices.
> 
> After I left Singapore, I wrote to the Ministry of Transport about this. I also submitted copies of maps of my own city, to show how (if you couldn't think for yourself) bus routes could be indicated on a metropolitan map. All I got back from the Singaporean Government was "We have received your email and will consider it", or words to that effect.
> 
> Singapore's transport system is fine ... provided you don't need to go further than walking distance from an MRT or LRT station (and that's not much of Singapore).


When did you last visit? Anyways since 2005 or so, the transport department here has put up bus service number and route details and fare information on all major bus stops and all bus terminals here.

And the same information is also available in a small bus guide book sold at major bookstores here.

And one of the bus operators is trying out this next bus stop displays system onboard buses, which informs you of the approaching bus stop name.

And you just tap in and out with your ''fare''card onboard buses so you never need to calculate your fare.

And everything's in english.

Just some info, thought you might want to know. 

If you are asking about problems with the Singapore bus system its gotta be that the bus timetables are not available at bus stops (printing them for the thousands of bus stops here for the hundred or so different bus services would be a nightmare), and timetables are only available for SOME BUSES online. And bus frequencies and bus fleet renewal programmes could be improved.

The problem doesn't lie with the bus service information availability.


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## xInfamuzPunjabix

I would say London wins, no doubt about that.
Whereas i also like Hong Kong's subway system, Houstons trams, Dallas's new trains and the list goes onnnnnn and onn


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## xInfamuzPunjabix

btw did anyone post Seattles transport system picx? they look pretty good too =)


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## hkskyline

Both London and Hong Kong have done major overhauls of their bus fleets in the past few years. Both systems have smart card capabilities.


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## Manila-X

hkskyline said:


> Both London and Hong Kong have done major overhauls of their bus fleets in the past few years. Both systems have smart card capabilities.


Both HK and London use the same type of bus models. London on the other hand keeps it's traditional red and doesn't have the full wrap-around advertising that some HK buses have.


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## Dallas star

I preffer Hong Kongs busses how about other Euro cities like Frankfurt, Edinburgh, And Liverpool, ect I missed alot


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## ailiton

Yardmaster said:


> Singapore and HK have good transport systems where they are available, but compared to major cities like Tokyo, Paris, London, or New York, their coverage is limited.


You are so wrong. HK's bus system is one of the largest in the world and it covers every little corner in the city. This is why HK has the highest transport usage rate in the world.

Who says transport is just about railway?


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## Tintin27

ailiton said:


> You are so wrong. HK's bus system is one of the largest in the world and it covers every little corner in the city. This is why HK has the highest transport usage rate in the world.
> 
> Who says transport is just about railway?


Very true. Area wise HK, SG are very small compared to london, tokyo but bus system covers everywhere. having lived in SG in past, I know how extraordinary sg public transport is. The feeder routes serves the locations very frequently with the nearest MRT interchange. The bigger townships are covered by LRT routes that are connected to the MRT network all with one Ez contactless smart card that can be topped up at places like 7elevens, MacDs ... HK is similar if not better..

BTw, I love the vestibuled double deckers which are in berlin... Looked so good.. Anyone has pics of those??


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## Tintin27

ignoramus said:


> When did you last visit? Anyways since 2005 or so, the transport department here has put up bus service number and route details and fare information on all major bus stops and all bus terminals here.
> 
> And the same information is also available in a small bus guide book sold at major bookstores here.
> 
> And one of the bus operators is trying out this next bus stop displays system onboard buses, which informs you of the approaching bus stop name.
> 
> And you just tap in and out with your ''fare''card onboard buses so you never need to calculate your fare.
> 
> And everything's in english.
> 
> Just some info, thought you might want to know.
> 
> If you are asking about problems with the Singapore bus system its gotta be that the bus timetables are not available at bus stops (printing them for the thousands of bus stops here for the hundred or so different bus services would be a nightmare), and timetables are only available for SOME BUSES online. And bus frequencies and bus fleet renewal programmes could be improved.
> 
> The problem doesn't lie with the bus service information availability.


I heard that SMRT is testing out next stop display inside buses.. IS Sb transit installing them as well? Also, is there passenger information display installed at major bus stop displaying when the next bus will arrive approx? I think with other cities around the world installing them, I am sure pretty soon SG will install as well if they havent started already..


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## ignoramus

Tintin27 said:


> I heard that SMRT is testing out next stop display inside buses.. IS Sb transit installing them as well? Also, is there passenger information display installed at major bus stop displaying when the next bus will arrive approx? I think with other cities around the world installing them, I am sure pretty soon SG will install as well if they havent started already..


1. Most of SMRT's buses have ''next stop'' LED displays in them. They are currently being tested & tweaked. SBS Transit intends to have these displays in its buses as well. They are currently seeking out for potential suppliers of such systems.

2. ''Bus departure time'' CRT displays are installed at all bus interchanges & terminals. These displays were intended to be installed at all major bus stops as well, but this project was scrapped 2 years back. (UPDATE: They have since revived the project, and are currently seeking out ways of implementing this.)

3. I have seen ''bus arrival time'' LED displays in Taipei & Kaohsiung.

4. SMRT & SBS Transit have also embarked on a programme to test out CCTVs onboard buses and trains. Prototypes have been installed on selected buses and trains.

5. Singapore's rail system will be entirely disabled friendly later this year (excluding 3 stations). The bus system will progressively have wheelchair friendly buses (200 buses have been ordered, some of which are already in service), with the entire fleet being wheelchair friendly by 2023.


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## Yardmaster

ignoramus said:


> When did you last visit? Anyways since 2005 or so, the transport department here has put up bus service number and route details and fare information on all major bus stops and all bus terminals here.


It was 2002. 



ignoramus said:


> And the same information is also available in a small bus guide book sold at major bookstores here.


That's all very well, (and I bought the book!) but, my problem was, for instance, finding the best way to get from Jurong to the base of Bukit Timah by public transport. Eventually I did it using two MRT lines, one bus, and a lot of sweating. I came home a different way.



ignoramus said:


> And one of the bus operators is trying out this next bus stop displays system onboard buses, which informs you of the approaching bus stop name.
> 
> And you just tap in and out with your ''fare''card onboard buses so you never need to calculate your fare.
> 
> And everything's in english.
> 
> Just some info, thought you might want to know.
> 
> If you are asking about problems with the Singapore bus system its gotta be that the bus timetables are not available at bus stops (printing them for the thousands of bus stops here for the hundred or so different bus services would be a nightmare), and timetables are only available for SOME BUSES online. And bus frequencies and bus fleet renewal programmes could be improved.
> 
> The problem doesn't lie with the bus service information availability.


That's all fine, but none of it would really help me to get from point A (or let's say point X) to the closest set-down point at the base of Bikit Timah: what would have helped would have been a map or street directory with the bus routes marked on it.

Like this: (examples from Melbourne) ...










or this:










Do you have these things? IMHO, without them your transport system is missing something. I did actually manage to finally buy a directory of Singapore which showed bus stops as little dots with a cross-reference to a table of the bus-numbers that stopped there, but it still didn't show the routes!


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## get13

Dallas star said:


> I preffer Hong Kongs busses how about other Euro cities like Frankfurt, Edinburgh, And Liverpool, ect I missed alot


 :lol: Edinburgh has got to be one of the worst cities in the world for transport. It's very easy to get to *other* cities from Edinburgh but getting around Edinburgh itself is a nightmare. I admit the busses are good, clean and frequent however it really needs a system capable of moving more people faster. There is no suburban rail, no trams(however there is a plan for them)and no metro. It has nothing except from busses. I actually laughed when I saw Edinburgh in the "City in the world with the best transport SYS" thread. :lol:


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## DaDvD

@Bsrt: I totally agree with you, but let me make you some corrections:
Madrid's population is 3,205,334 inhabitants while Madrid's metropolitan area population goes up to 5,843,041 inhabitants.
Also the first metro line was opened in 1919 (Line 1 from Sol to Cuatro Caminos)


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## Bsrt

Yes, i know, the numbers i wrote were gone :S...
The real difference is 1'5 million, because London is 7'2 million...


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## Dallas star

Ya I was also wondering about that Bsrt


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## Bitxofo

I agree in almost everything about Madrid, except the traffic which is horrible, worse than in London or Paris!


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## Bsrt

I'm not so sure that traffic is worse in Madrid than in London, i was in london last week and the one before and everything was horrible, every time i go i like more the city itself but traffic jams in Regent, Picadilly or Oxford stret are really horrible, and they are not so broad streets, so that make them even more horrible for pedestrians. In the case of Paris i can't talk because i don't know the city as Madrid or London...


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## _00_deathscar

Regarding the Singapore bus route map things, Hong Kong doesn't have one of those maps either...but we run fine without them...?


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## Minato ku

The traffic is worse in Paris than in London. ( I don't know Madrid )
Parisian are really bad driver.

Place de la Concorde champ Elysee ,Porte d'Orleans ,Boulevard St Michel , Rue de Rivoli, place de l'Opera , Boulevard Haussmann ... are good exemples and the traffic is terrible in suburbs to.

In Paris the traffic is heavy in minight too.


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## SE9

^
I've only been to Paris a couple of times, but I didn't know congestion was that bad. I've obviously seen pictures of the Champs Elysees jams, but never heard of midnight traffic.



Bsrt said:


> Yes, i know, the numbers i wrote were gone :S...
> The real difference is 1'5 million, because London is 7'2 million...


Thats 7.4million city population...

This is London's Urban Heavy rail (Overground) network, which is often overlooked. It's as important as the underground (metro) network, especially for those in South London where metro lines do not penetrate far.... 










When combined, the Underground and Overground provide a complete and extensive network, beaten only by Tokyo:










Unfortunately, I've never been to Madrid, but I hear its got a great transport system.


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## Metropolitan

minato ku said:


> The traffic is worse in Paris than in London. ( I don't know Madrid )
> Parisian are really bad driver.
> 
> Place de la Concorde champ Elysee ,Porte d'Orleans ,Boulevard St Michel , Rue de Rivoli, place de l'Opera , Boulevard Haussmann ... are good exemples and the traffic is terrible in suburbs to.
> 
> In Paris the traffic is heavy in minight too.


Well, Paris is a lot more densely populated than London is, hence it's natural that this generates more trafic. It's totally true by the way that there are traffic jams at midnight or even later in Paris. You can go to the Champs-Elysées at 3am and the avenue will be filled with cars.

However, I don't believe Parisians are as bad drivers as their reputation is. The average Parisian driver is very aware of his/her environment, and drive actually very safely once compared with most cities I've visited. For instance, if a pedestrian is illegally crossing the street, the Parisian driver will slow down. In most other cities, he would accelerate and honk in order to make understand he has the priority. By the way, in general Parisians don't use a lot the horn compared to what happens in other cities.

The only thing I see about Parisian drivers is that sometimes they create a second lane in order to turn left or things like that. But if they do so, it is actually to make the trafic more fluid. Hence I consider this as rather smart. Anyway, most people who are complaining about Parisian drivers being bad has obviously never driven in Italy, Spain or even in Berlin or Sydney. In all those cities, I had a lot bigger problems with drivers than in Paris, and this even as a Pedestrian.

Another thing by the way is that the freeway network in Paris is far more developped than it is in London. It would be hypocritical to consider it otherwise. While Paris has three circular freeways with the Périphérique, the A86 and the Francilienne, London has only the M25 which is similar to the further Paris one, the Francilienne.


----------



## BenL

But correct me if I'm wrong in saying that the Périphérique ranks amongst the most congested roads in Europe. There are more motorways running through central Paris but largely thanks to the congestion charge, London's traffic movement appears more fluid.


----------



## Minato ku

Urban Heavy rail system is very big in London.
Bigger than other city in Europe.

In comparaison Paris RER and suburban rail system
Big but not as London.


----------



## Danger! 50000 volts

Londons Underground network is very good, but it would be nice to see some major investment in new lines and stations, extensively covering south of the thames and further out into the suburbs, this could then free up the surface rail networks for faster express services. The bus and train networks are very good, and are amongst the best in the world, masses of money are being spent upgrading surface rail transport, trains and stations accross the city, and the country, this investment will need to be sustained for a very long time however. 
Ten years from now and London has the potential to have one of the most up to date public transport networks around, as long as the beaurocracy doesn't hinder progress too much (which, being the UK, it will unfortunately).

However, as far as roads/motorways are concerned, then yes, I'm afraid London is practically third world. Congestion charge or not, the fact remains that it takes over an hour to get from central london to the outer suburbs on most days at most times, the motorway access to airports is indeed crap as well, the M4 was built 40yrs ago, and a two lane dual carriageway from central london to the worlds busiest international airport is in my opinion a fucking joke, indeed as the whole cities road transport system is. Again, unlike the rest of the worlds cities, whose progress has for the most part remained unhindered, Londoners, and indeed most other UK cities, really have shit out thanks to beurocracy and nimbyism. Indeed 40 years ago, there was a plan to create arguably the worlds best and most efficient urban motorway system in London, check this out...

London Ringway System 

...indeed, the 'stings' of motorway that are in the city today are actually the first signs of what would have been one truly enormous motorway network, probably as good as that of LA, Houston, Bangkok, etc. Imagine if the same fate had happened the victorians when the railways were proposed, we really would be in the shit then, eh!!!


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## sweek

Tricky said:


> I can't believe that someone has put up Sydney and
> Haven't been to many US or Asian cities, but I believe that in the US, only New York or Chicago would qualify for this thread


Why would you only look at big cities? If you're going to start comparing by size, of course they'll win. But smaller cities can have incredibly good public transport systems too without being in all those top x lists of number of metro stations / airports / passengers etc. Portland for example has a very good system.


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## Dallas star

Very nice


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## shenqie

We don't want an urban motorway network IN central London or green and leafy suberban outer London thank you very much. Would you WANT to live next to one of these ? Do you like breathing diesel dirt and a fine mixture of noxious gases and other dust ? Only in cities where the people have no choice do they get lumped with these.

That's why the London Urban Ringway plan got ditched; From the bit's that had already been built it was seen that it was gonna be an enviromental and urban catastrophe in the making. It'd chop-up the city and destroy the very things, the very structure that make it what it is. 

The peripherique in Paris damages Paris because it forms a stinking ringfence around the more bijoux central areas. I'm not really sure of it's usefulness either - for many travellers, it just seems to serve a similar function to the M25 around London linking national routes - when it's not totally bunged up. However, if you travel at 2am in the morning it can be a quick way around Paris ... ;o) Ever tried parking in Paris ? When (mmmh) you do arrive in roughly the area you want to mooch around, you'll end up somewhere completely different 'cos there is no parking - and have you ever been 'triple parked' hehe, it's quite interesting trying to get outa that kind of squeeze. So what's the point of getting there so fast (if) in the first place ? However, driving to you local station DOES make a lot of sense on a wet morning ...

Urban Freeways are only ever really acceptable in dense cities if they are mostly stuck in tunnels, in fact Boston did the right thing by burying most of it's central area freeways recently (well, if the tunnel roof's would stop falling in anyway).


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## Dallas star

Ehat about city lines now a days with teroorist threats what is the safest transportation sys.


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## Dallas star

Common theres got to be more


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## ignoramus

*Singapore*

1. Anti-terrorism measures

CCTVs in
- Buses (Being tested on some buses)
- Trains (Being tested on the older trains, the newer trains already have them)
- Subway Stations (CCTVs capable of recording digital images are being installed, and the number of CCTVs per station is being increased)

Transit Security (Security Guards)
- Bus Interchanges
- Subway Stations

Police MRT (Train) Unit
- Patrols Subway Stations and Bus Interchanges

Mailboxes and trashbins are removed from all bus interchanges and train stations and relocated to outside these premises.

2. Passenger safety

Platform screen doors
- Underground train stations


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## SE9

*London Public Transport voted best in the World*

London's public transport system has been voted the best in the world in a survey of international tourists.

The UK capital also topped the poll as the most expensive city for transport, holiday review site TripAdvisor showed.

A quarter of the 2,000 people asked said London was the best overall for public transport, 16% voted for New York and 12% for Paris.

London's cabbies came out as being the best while New York, Mexico City and Paris were said to have the worst.

*Terrorist threats*

More than 70% of travellers said they use public transport while on holiday and three-quarters of respondents said a city's public transport system was a consideration when choosing where to visit.

Of those asked 9% said they would avoid using public transport because of recent concerns about terrorist threats.

TripAdvisor's Michele Perry said: "London's public transport services get a lot of bad press but it seems that the international travelling community think it's the tops all round, even taking into account that it is also thought to be the most expensive.

"The fact that nearly 75% of travellers said they take public transport into consideration when planning their trips suggests that a quality system is of great importance to a city's tourism industry, not just its commuters." 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5294790.stm


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## Dallas star

Wow when I think of psris I didnt know there was cabbys


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## Metropolitan

shenqie said:


> The peripherique in Paris damages Paris because it forms a stinking ringfence around the more bijoux central areas. I'm not really sure of it's usefulness either - for many travellers, it just seems to serve a similar function to the M25 around London linking national routes - when it's not totally bunged up.


Paris périphérique actually links residentials areas to business districts. La Défense, Val de Seine, La Plaine Saint Denis... all those business districts are located at the outskirts of the périphérique.

If you plan to use the périphérique in order to avoid Paris, then you're plain wrong, you actually go straight in the core of the city. I advise you to take the A86 or even the further Francilienne if you really want to avoid Paris. The périphérique is used for everyday's trips (mainly work and purchase).


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## Chilenofuturista

Tokyo, without a question...

But if we go proportionally then probably Madrid wins considering its "small" size.


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## torke

Metro de Madrid advertisment video link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrcZiYedePw


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## Justme

torke said:


> Metro de Madrid advertisment video link:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrcZiYedePw


year, cool ad.


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## Bahnsteig4

Strange that Vienna is NEVER mentioned. Apparently too little is known about the transport system over here. And remember that heavy rail/metro sytems are not always the best solution.

Vienna's metro and S-Bahn lines:










The tramway lines:









And, in addition there are dozens of bus lines.

Again, Remember: A good transport network should never be narrowed down to the number of subway lines.


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## Metropolitan

Paris transportation system is the result of a very specific History. To summarize, at the conception of the metro system, it's been decided that the network wouldn't leave the administrative borders of the city of Paris. Unfortunately, what wasn't planned was that the city would continue to grow... and today, here's how it looks like:










Such a growth forced the metro network to expand. Unfortunately, the short distance between stations makes the network slow, and hence lines can't be expanded too far because it wouldn't be competitive. As a result, we have a very dense network, but only serving the very core of the urban area:










The idea was that suburban trains would be enough to serve the suburbs. Those suburban trains have been designed in the 19th century to serve neighbouring towns. Unfortunately, because of the growth of Paris, those towns located sparsely around Paris became fully part of the urban area.

As both the suburban trains and the metro don't share a lot of connections, all of Paris main rail stations have grown into monsters, each of them unloading hundreds of thousands of people every day. Here's a map showing the Paris metro and the Transilien suburban rails system as they exist today:










As you can see, the double system of metro and suburban rails became fastly outdated. Today, Paris inner suburbs are twice more densely populated than the inner London, and some of them even developped as business districts such as it's the case at La Défense, Levallois, La Plaine, or the Val de Seine. Those aeras couldn't continue any longer to be served by the same network as the one serving Mantes, Chartres, Meaux or Dreux. A third system was necessary, there was simply no choice. And that's how is born the RER.

The RER is a hybrid system being an integration of modern city-centre subway and pre-existing suburban rail. From the suburban rail, the RER has the loading gauge. From the metro, the RER has the frequency, the passengers trafic, and the connections. At the opposite of suburban rails, the RER serves almost exclusively the urban area and nothing else. Here's how the map looks once the RER added:










Granted, this system seems a lot less efficient than others you know. But despite this, Paris urban rail system is, by far, the network generating the most trafic in Western Europe. Here are details of figures for all kinds of public transports together



Code:


[B]Paris public transports trafic[/B] [I](passengers a year)[/I]

Metro			1,335,700,000
RER		 	  782,900,000
Suburban Trains	 	  257,000,000
Bus (Paris+Suburbs)	  940,000,000
Tramway			   57,700,000
Other			    6,600,000

Total			3,379,900,000


Now as we've seen, there's been misconceptions in the Paris urban rail system which has lead authorities to build three specific rail systems. On the other side, the Paris motorway network has develloped relatively smoothly with time and seems fully adapted for an urban area of this scale. Despite the good effects such a motorway network has on mobility, the bas point is that it discourages people to take public transports. Here's the current motorway network in the Paris urban area:


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## Spooky873

i wish the US rail system was as good as Europes.


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## Dallas star

i wish the US rail system was as good as Europes.
I couldnt of said it better my self spooky873.


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## SE9

Good analysis and maps Metropolitan 


The London Underground network does not extend far into South London. 
This is because, when the tube network was being constructed over 100 years ago, South London was relatively sparsely populated. 
The region was just a collection of villages connected by roads.

In these maps, we can see the difference in coverage:


*Metro network North of the Thames*











*Metro network South of the Thames*











South London's relatively low and sparse population, however, made it ideal to build overground railway, connecting the village centres. 
Over the years, these villages have grown and interwoven into one city (London).
This is why South is extensively covered by overground heavy rail, and why most of the major rail terminii (Charing X, Cannon St. Victoria, Blackfriars, Waterloo & London Bridge) serve south London:

*Overground Heavy Rail - North of the Thames (pop +5 million)*










*Overground Heavy Rail - South of the Thames (pop 3 million)*


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## lpioe

very interesting maps se9 and metropolitan


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## Dallas star

YA neat great job


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## Dallas star

Does any one have any renderings of any airports or new train stops to be disigned


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## Philipek

*Budapest*

One city that doesn't get mentioned a lot is Budapest. It's a fairly large city with a population around 2 million and the public transport in Budapest is excellent. Within the entire populated area of Budapest you are never further than 400 metres from a stop or station and the centre is extensively pedestrianised.

In fact Budapest boasts Europe's second oldest metro! Line 1 (the Millenium Metro) was planed in 1870 and opened in 1896. Lines 2 and 3 were built in the 1970's. Convientiently all 3 lines meet a single interchange station. Line 4 is currently under construction, linking the two main rail stations in Buda and Pest and construction of line 5 is due to start next year. In addition to this, line 2 is due for extensive rennovation as well as expansion to the airport. Whist the system is far from being the world's most expansive and the full length of the three metro lines is only 31.7km comprising 40 stations (with 12 new stations under construction) it is extremely efficient.









Map of the Budapest Metro









Budapest Foeldalatti Opera Station on Line 1

In addition to the metro Budapest is also well served by an extensive tram network. There are 35 tram lines throughout the city and line 4-5 is Europe's highest capacity operating with the world's longest tram (54 metres!) 









The World's longest tram!

Four light rail lines called Hev also serve the city and whilst they are mostly suburburban a few stations are underground near the centre. Budapest also has a fleet of electric trolly buses, buses and a short cog-wheel railway. The nightbus service is also excellent and well frequented. And more than anything - the transport is CHEAP and very well frequented and serves the entire city.

The major drawback in Budapest is that much of the rolling stock is decrepid, communist made and long past it's use by date. Some of the trams are over 40 years old. However, it is slowly being replaced and the lines extended. It may not be the cleanest or most state of the art system in the world, but it works very well, keeps cars off the streets and commuters moving. What's the point in having flashy trains if nobody's on them and they don't go anywhere?

(And I am not Hungarian! I just think the system there works wonderfully)


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## Dallas star

Ya but it doesnt look so modern Any way who knows anything about bejing, and shanghai.


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## Ellatur

whoa i cant believe seoul is not mentioned here yet! (unless i missed it :sleepy: )








the rides are really cheap; fares start from 800 won or around 80 cents and are cheaper for children. i think the fares for older generation is free? not sure about this but my granddad got tickets for free all the time
according to wikipedia, it has the third largest number of passengers per year after Tokyo and Moscow and has the 5th largest number of stations  (though these infos vary from different sources) and the system keeps expanding!


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## Dallas star

Wow thats huge I also cannot believe it wasnt mentioned yet lol


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## Dallas star

Anyways anyone got any pics of one of these citys at Rush hour...


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## hkskyline

*Seoul*'s subway stations


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## Metropolitan

Dallas star said:


> Anyways anyone got any pics of one of these citys at Rush hour...


For the matter, the Paris RER at rush hours is a real shame. It probably sums up the best all the inadequacies of the Paris transportation system.

Here are few shots... the worst is that, for all those pics, it's been generally less than 2 minutes that the last train has left the platform. Indeed there's a train every 90 to 150 seconds on RER lines at rush hour. Afterwards, we can still laugh about Japanese pushers filling up trains. We're not that far from it.


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## Harkeb

Seoul's subway is very efficient, clean with big wagons. They are now also installing elevator-like doors on many platforms, to prevent people from falling on the rails. 
But it lacks night buses. like London..and its great ticketing system. 
Therefore London still has the best transport network.


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## Dallas star

WOW


----------



## nick_-_taylor

Danger! 50 said:


> Londons Underground network is very good, but it would be nice to see some major investment in new lines and stations, extensively covering south of the thames and further out into the suburbs, this could then free up the surface rail networks for faster express services. The bus and train networks are very good, and are amongst the best in the world, masses of money are being spent upgrading surface rail transport, trains and stations accross the city, and the country, this investment will need to be sustained for a very long time however.
> Ten years from now and London has the potential to have one of the most up to date public transport networks around, as long as the beaurocracy doesn't hinder progress too much (which, being the UK, it will unfortunately).
> 
> However, as far as roads/motorways are concerned, then yes, I'm afraid London is practically third world. Congestion charge or not, the fact remains that it takes over an hour to get from central london to the outer suburbs on most days at most times, the motorway access to airports is indeed crap as well, the M4 was built 40yrs ago, and a two lane dual carriageway from central london to the worlds busiest international airport is in my opinion a fucking joke, indeed as the whole cities road transport system is. Again, unlike the rest of the worlds cities, whose progress has for the most part remained unhindered, Londoners, and indeed most other UK cities, really have shit out thanks to beurocracy and nimbyism. Indeed 40 years ago, there was a plan to create arguably the worlds best and most efficient urban motorway system in London, check this out...
> 
> London Ringway System
> 
> ...indeed, the 'stings' of motorway that are in the city today are actually the first signs of what would have been one truly enormous motorway network, probably as good as that of LA, Houston, Bangkok, etc. Imagine if the same fate had happened the victorians when the railways were proposed, we really would be in the shit then, eh!!!


You've got to be kidding me - The Ringway network would have sliced all of London up. If you want to see what would have happened look no further than the M11 extension towards Stratford. Only a few years old yet its always jammed up and it destroyed dozens of very nice Victorian homes.

If the 4 Ringways had been built, London would now be a dead city. The fact is all over the world: if you build new roads, within a few years this new capacity will eventually be clogged up. Ringway would have enveloped London, as people would be stuck in a mass of roads that would have carved through Royal Parks, destroyed thousands of communites and knocked down so many historical structures that you could build a city with them. Fact is - you don't need to drive a car in London. The bus and rail network is more than sufficient.

The Périphérique in Paris is exactly why we shouldn't have a similar motorway around Central London: it acts as a wall around the City of Paris and the surrounding urban area - its a legacy that is now so dependent upon by car drivers.




London Buses: 1,816mn
London Underground: 971mn
National Rail: 719mn
DLR: 53.07
Tramlink: 22.5mn
London River: 2.3mn

*Total: 3,583.87mn*

(Source: TfL Annual Report 2006, ORR National Rail Trends Yearbook 2005-06)




If we take the original poster requirements of:
- Underground Railways
- Bus
- Trains
- Ports & River Services
- Airports

Then London comes out quite well.....


*London Underground*
- It has the largest underground/metro/subway network on the planet - with a whopping 408 route km. The London Underground is what built London - it seeded entire communities and brought together a whole host of historical villages into the urban blitz that we know as London. As well as being the worlds oldest it incorporates modern features such as PSD's, electronic display boards (at all station platforms), as well as automated trains and by the 2012 Olympics, air conditioned trains. 

Contrary to what many people think - the system also has express and local lines (possibly even the first in the world). It is also continuing to expand with the East London Line Extensions to the north, south and west; the *Metro*politan Line (the original metro) is due an extension; while the Piccadilly Extension to Heathrow Terminal 5 is nearing completition. All stations have either been cleaned up or modernised in the last 3 years or will be by 2012, while all lines will be getting new rolling stock.

Yet despite its age it all still manages to operate to around 97% standards (I believe the Hong Kong MTR is around 98-99%) and retains an identity that the vasy majority of networks around the world lack.




*London Heavy Rail*
The London Underground is already immense, but what most people forget is that it isn't actually the largest heavy rail network in London (ie within the political boundaries - not the metro area). The Network Rail network within London is nearly 2x larger - with a route km (not track km) of 788km (there is around 5,000km of commuter route km in the metro). That gives a whopping 1,196km - route km - within the 1,579km2 of London, to give an idea of the size of the London heavy rail network - its longer than the combined route km of: 
- Madrid Metro
- Paris Metro
- New York Subway
- Moscow Metro
- Hong Kong MTR

And another 40km is being built within London at this precise moment with several new lines and extensions being planned.

The problem with the Network Rail network in London is that it covers several layers, much like Tokyo where there are a whole host of lines serviced by a multitude of train operators across hundreds of routes. Each operator has a multitude of lines that eventually wind their way into Central London and its 13 termini. These range from:
- London Bridge: the worlds oldest elevated station and oldest terminus
- London St Pancras: the beautiful terminus will become in 2008 the future home of Eurostar and Shinkansen services
- London Liverpool Street: busiest terminus in London
- London Paddington: iconic
- London Waterloo: largest by area
- London Victoria: most congested
As well as: London Euston, London Kings Cross, London Marylebone, London Moorgate, London Cannon Street, London Fenchurch Steet and London Charing Cross.

All are designed in a variety of styles from the 1830's to more modern 21st century designs - no other city offers as much diversity in terms of number of termini or architectural differences in termini.

London was also the first city in the world to have an airport express - city centre rail service. Today it offers three airport express services:
- London Heathrow Express
- London Gatwick Express
- London Stansted Express
London Luton essentially has its own airport express into London but this isn't a dedicated train to airport passengers, while the London City Airport now has a direct link to Central London thanks to the newly opened DLR extension. It is also possible to take a train without multiple local stops bewtween London Gatwick Airport and London Luton Airport through Central London. No other city comes close to providing so many heavy rail connections to so many airports.

London's Network Rail network is also heavily connected to the London Underground, creating multiple express lines and extra capacity - interchange is seamless. The entire London Heavy Rail network (excluding trams) has around 600 heavy rail stations within the city boundaries, while the metro has close to another 600 stations, meaning that London and its environs has a whopping 1,200 heavy rail stations; that may or may not be more or equal to that of Tokyo, but its definately larger than any other city in the world. London is also the only city in the world that will operate the fastest British trains, Italian tilting Pendolino trains, French TGV-inspired 300kph Eurostars and coming in 2008 - Japanese Shinkansens!

The variety of trains from HSR, commuter, metro and historical is simply vast - no other city has close to as many varied trainsets. On top of that, London and its surroundings has dozens of rail lines that are dedicated to historical trains, while numerous other historic services (such as the Cathedral Express which just travels to cathedral cities in the UK) originate from London.

The network continues to expand, 2007 will see the opening of the CTRL link into London St Pancras. 2008 will see the opening of the new Heathrow Express extension to the u/c Heathrow Terminal 5, while the Crossrail, Crossrail 2, Crossrail 3 and Thameslink schemes are quickly coming forward.




*London Buses*
The bus system is hard to measure in London, its massive - handles more people than all other public transport modes combined in London. Across its 700 routes and 6,500 scheduled buses (ie those running, not the entire fleet) it has coverage like no other mode - every community is next door to a bus route and you could be anywhere in London and only 5mins walk from a bus stop. The network is however more than just a transport mode, its a world wide icon - the red double decker bus is probably the most easily identifiable mode of any city other than perhaps the tube train.




*London Light Rail (DLR & Tramlink)*
London used to have a vast tram network, unfortunately it vanished after WWII as it made way for the bus network. Today however there are two networks and more are being planned. The first is the DLR - its more like a light rail-heavy rail hybrid, with the frequency, capacity and speed of some heavy rail networks from around the world, yet the high density stations of light-rail. It is one of the few networks in the world to be fully automated and covers 31km and 38 stations - alone it could serve most cities. It is also the fastest growing network in London, by 2012 the Woolwich Arsenal Extension, Stratford International Extension and Barking Reach Extension should be built. In the near future the network could be well over double its size and close towards 100km in length with dozens more stations.

The Tramlink network is slightly smaller (covers 38 stations and 28km) and is a a tram system that operates from Wimbledon through Croydon and out to a few South-Eastern areas of London. Its popularity and success have seen multiple extensions planned and the Croydon Tramlink network could quite easily double in length over the coming years. Yet other seperate tram networks are in planning around London - from the West London Tram, City Tram, Cross-River Tram, East London Tram, North London Tram and Greenwich Maritime Tram. Recent news is that the longest shoppping street in the world: Oxford Street which is congested by buses and served by the Central Line underground would be complemented by a brand new tram line.




*London River Services*
The network is not as large as the other main transport modes and that is reflected by its lower volume of passengers, yet the network is still pretty extensive along the River Thames. There are 9 river service lines serving 23 'river stations' - each connected to one or all the London Underground, Network Rail, London Buses and DLR 




*London Personal Rapid Transit*
London in 2008 will also be the first city on the planet to have a personal rapid transit (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/20/npods20.xml) network that will essentially act like an automated taxi with a maximum capacity of 4 people across a 30mile network underneath London Heathrow Airport (which will also be exported to be used at the other London airports). The idea is that you could take a PRT vehicle from the foyer of your hotel or from your car and go direct to the check-in desk. It wil also mean that transfers between terminals will be the quickest on the planet - 10mins as you'd be contained within a system that would take you to directly where you need to go without any fuss.




*London Airports*
London is the worlds premier air hub - no other city offers as many destinations as London across its 5 international airports: 
- London Heathrow - world's busiest international airport
- London Gatwick - world's 7th busiest international airport
- London Stansted - world's 14th busiest international airport
- London Luton
- London City

All now handle a massive 135mppa - thats more than all passengers flying into the likes of France or Germany and clearly above the 2nd tier of global aviation hubs (Tokyo, Chicago, New York and Paris - all around 90mppa - around a 1/3 lower than London). Heathrow is getting a face lift, with the new Heathrow T5 opening in less than 2 years, while Heathrow East will open in 2012 practically redesigning the entire airport to bring it into the 21st century. Stansted is also getting another runway and new terminal to ensure that it can cope with the growth from Easyjet and Ryanair, while London City, London Luton and London Gatwick (the worlds longest air bridge is now open at London Gatwick Airport) are also seeing massive investment to ensure that London will be able to handle the expected 300-400mppa that will pass through its five international airports.

London also has a few dozen smaller airports dotted around that offer executive flights or smaller charter flights, these handle around 2mppa themselves.




London simply has so much. A vast underground railway, a vast heavy rail network, an immense bus network, a rapidly expanding light rail network, the worlds premier aviation hub and the worlds first PRT. It might not all be clean, and it doesn't always work to plan, but 97% of the time it does and at the same time you're travelling on a network that set the standard for all other networks on the planet. I think it offers the best all-round package for movement both within the city and around the planet and it continues to improve upon its 200 year history.


----------



## nick_-_taylor

*London Heavy Rail Map











Metro London Heavy Rail Map











London Bus Map











Central London Bus Map











London River Services*


----------



## Minato ku

Paris transportation Maps

*Heavy rail and RER in Paris metro area Map*









*Metro RER and Tramway in Paris Map*









*Bus Maps* PDF
Paris 75 (Central city )
http://www.ratp.info/picts/plans/pdf/secteur/bus_paris_geo.pdf
Seine Saint Denis 93 (North inner suburbs)
http://www.ratp.info/picts/plans/pdf/secteur/secteur8.pdf
Seine Saint Denis 93 (North inner suburbs)
http://www.ratp.info/picts/plans/pdf/secteur/secteur7.pdf
Haut de Seine 92 (North west inner suburbs)
http://www.ratp.info/picts/plans/pdf/secteur/secteur6.pdf
Haut de Seine 92 (West inner suburbs)
http://www.ratp.info/picts/plans/pdf/secteur/secteur5.pdf
Haut de Seine 92 (West inner suburbs)
http://www.ratp.info/picts/plans/pdf/secteur/secteur4.pdf
Haut de Seine 92 and Val de Marne 94 (South inner suburbs)
http://www.ratp.info/picts/plans/pdf/secteur/secteur13.pdf
Essone 91 (South outer suburbs)
http://www.ratp.info/picts/plans/pdf/secteur/secteur14.pdf
Val de Marne 94 (South East inner suburbs )
http://www.ratp.info/picts/plans/pdf/secteur/secteur12.pdf
Saint Saint Denis 93 (East inner suburbs )
http://www.ratp.info/picts/plans/pdf/secteur/secteur10.pdf
Seine et Marne 77 (East outer suburbs)
http://www.ratp.info/picts/plans/pdf/secteur/secteur11.pdf
Seine Saint Denis 93 (North East inner suburbs )
http://www.ratp.info/picts/plans/pdf/secteur/secteur9.pdf
*Night Bus Nocilien*
http://www.ratp.info/picts/plans/pdf/reseaux/noctilien.pdf


----------



## Bikkel

LOL
London's transport is so crappy, that even an episode of Eastenders was devoted to it :laugh:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/eastenders/episodes/episode_content/episode20060911.shtml

Best transport in London?

Whooah, yeah, 4 years behind on the communication system - they're still using smoke signals as we speak. Quite a surprise no train got drowned in London and its famously leaking waterlines :laugh:

London's tubes don't even run at night :laugh:


----------



## nick_-_taylor

I'd hardly call Eastenders - a soap opera as gospel truth of the real situation of the system my cucumber-confused chum!

It will delight you then that those leaking waterline aren't leaking. Had you done your research, you'd fine that its because of geology that water enters the system (however this has not been significant to the running of the system - dutchmen throwing themselves in the path of oncoming trains over cucumbers would be a more likely disturbance to the running of the system) via the surrounding rock and soils, water naturally will find its way through any tunnel which runs through geology that can contain large amounts of water. It is however not down to leaking watermains which are interestingly despite their age far superior to modern systems. You will be interested to know however that that water will be used in an ingenious idea to create an air conditioning system for the tube network! Use a problem to solve another - ingenious!

Actually the tube does run at night - they run until 12:30, as like with the majority of systems around the planet - they close down for maintenance. Its interesting to note that systems that do operate 24hours tend to be far more run-down, hence why there are so few around and I don't believe that you get value for money or use the network efficiently. Tokyo for instance despite its immense rail network size, superb efficiency and immense volumes goes into sleep mode - the reason is simple. You can't offer a good or reasonable service if you don't shut down the system to make upgrades or clean the place up.

Suprised you haven't brought up your superman driven Arnhem trolleybuses that travel faster than the speed of light! :laugh:


----------



## Justme

Bikkel said:


> LOL
> London's transport is so crappy, that even an episode of Eastenders was devoted to it :laugh:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/eastenders/episodes/episode_content/episode20060911.shtml


Ah yes, the man who thinks cucumbers are sold also in halves in the UK because everyone there is so poor they can't afford a full one, has spoken again. :lol:

And making up stories. There was never an episode devoted to the Underground, let alone devoted to problems of the Underground. The episode cucumber man tried to deceive us with, simply had a section where one of the characters was in the Tube when it stopped for a time between stations and had a verbal argument with some other guy because he had some family stress at home.

I've spent a similar amount of time stuck between stations on the U-bahn in Frankfurt. Maybe Eastenders should dedicate an episode to that :lol:

Hmmm, I think I have just admitted I watch Eastenders... :runaway:


----------



## Dallas star

Guys stop it


----------



## Dallas star

Heres one
Las vegas it is very convienient with traffic just bellow on the strip!


----------



## Dallas star

Heres one
Las vegas it is very convienient with traffic just bellow on the strip!


----------



## Dallas star

Sorry about the duble post


----------



## staff

Is the best mass transit system necissarily the biggest?
Hong Kong's transport system is fairly small, but definately my favourite system on the planet. No system in Europe (or North America of course) is close to it when it comes to cleanliness, punctuality (word?), efficiency etc.
And I have used all the 'big ones' and 'best ones' (London, Paris, Madrid, Berlin, Hong Kong, Moscow, New York, Hamburg, Munich, Copenhagen, Stockholm, Shanghai and so on...) in the world, except for Seoul and Japanese cities.

That said - London and Paris (which seem to be the main topics here) both have amazing public transportation systems.


----------



## Minato ku

Punctuality is not French :runaway:


----------



## Dallas star

What system has the fastest trains is it in bejing?


----------



## gunners

i dont want to brag but i do belive that london got voted the best public transport city in the world?????? and my god do i love half cucumbers thats all i can afford


----------



## Bikkel

Iain was stuck in that train and started to hassle people and mouth off an older chap. I saw thàt episode, I knew what I wrote :laugh:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/articles/2006/03/30/running_dry_leaks_emails_feature.shtml

Anyway, I have written to James Cameron and in his reply he agreed that cutting fresh cucumbers in two is an outrage. It's all part of the new green conservative party agenda.


----------



## nick_-_taylor

Not even I watch Eastenders, but I at least know that the character in question by the looks of it wasn't Ian, but Billy you fool. I bet it isn't even a real tube train, a mock design to allow filming (ie they can peice it together to get different angles)....afterall you do know that the 'Walford Tube Station' is fake and that they play tube train sounds - or do you think that there is a real Walford Tube Station. :laugh:

Considering that there are now well over 7.5mn people residing in London, 11 instances over the course of a year seem hardly problematic - I'd bet the Netherlands has far more problem of seepage...but then again that didn't prove that the London Underground was flooded as you made it out to be. Like with most things my clog-wearing friend - you lack substance.


----------



## Bikkel

No seeping, love! In NL we don't drink, don't brag about our country, instead we work and make things work!

You really don't have a clue how tragically silly you look, with your bragging of - what Forbes ranks as the #14 infrastructure, as your #1.

Just imagine what you may have learned, kid, when you hadn't been bragging about 'your' country or your london for at least 3 years now.

And yes, it was Ian http://www.bbc.co.uk/eastenders/eastenders/characters/character_content/character_ian_b.shtml

Do you enjoy looking like a complete ****?


----------



## sweek

Oh my, are we really discussing over an Eastenders episode?

I happen to have seen that one by the way, and the problem was apparently that some kids had pulled the emergency brake on the train ahead of them or something... can't blame LU for that.

But really, this is ridiculous, and Bikkel is doing the same as he has in the UK transport forums, and as he does when it comes to the big cities in the Netherlands in the Dutch forums.


----------



## nick_-_taylor

You really are that stupid aren't you Bikkel to believe that this individual (Ian) is the same person on the tube train called Billy:










This (note the set meant to resemble a District Line train with the green railings) clearly isn't Ian:










Billy:









Christ it wasn't even a real event but a soap opera! If Arnhem was imaginative enough then perhaps it could film a similar scene with its faster than light trolley buses!

Thanks once again for spoiling yet another thread - it seems to be the only thing you can manage these days.


----------



## Bikkel

Crikey, put the blame on me? I didn't bring up poor Lundun in the best transport sys thread, only fools and horses do :laugh: Doesn't change any from the fact that Eastenders included breakdowns in LU in an episode?

In fact I mentioned cities in Switzerland, Sweden, Germany and NL to perhaps have the best, none of you sad little wimps actually replied to that and, oh lo and behold when I dare to poke fun of those pathetically patriotic albions :laugh:


----------



## Bikkel

nick_-_taylor said:


> Thanks once again for spoiling yet another thread - it seems to be the only thing you can manage these days.


No, sad little Nick, you spoil the entire forum with your London and UK jihad. Your city smells of piss and vomit, doesn't have trains and tubes running at night, and thus London has no place whatsoever in this thread.


----------



## Dallas star

Stop it


----------



## Dallas star

Does anyone know anything about the Los Angelos rail.


----------



## Justme

Dallas star said:


> Stop it


Dallas, you can ask Bikkel to stop it as much as you like, but he never will. He needs the attention.


----------



## Dallas star

K then lets get back on topic


----------



## Bikkel

Justme said:


> Dallas, you can ask Bikkel to stop it as much as you like, but he never will. He needs the attention.


Yep, let's get back on topic! Clearly London is not the city with the best transport sys!

Smells of piss and vomit, has no services at night. I mentioned a few cities that have better transport than LDN. Typically no one replied to that.

I suggest you give up your childish following of me. Just because you didn't get the pun of the cucumber threads ... How silly it is accusing someone of needing the attention. We all seem to, hence we give our opinions here.


----------



## Justme

Bikkel said:


> Yep, let's get back on topic! Clearly London is not the city with the best transport sys!
> 
> Smells of piss and vomit, *has no services at night.* I mentioned a few cities that have better transport than LDN. Typically no one replied to that.
> 
> I suggest you give up your childish following of me. Just because you didn't get the pun of the cucumber threads ... How silly it is accusing someone of needing the attention. We all seem to, hence we give our opinions here.


Interesting comment. There are quite a few night services. How many cities have a better bus network at night? These are just the dedicated night services:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/spiders/pdf/central-london-night.pdf

These show all the maps (39 in total) with night services. Many normal services run 24/7.
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/spiders/default.asp?borough=night

And becuase the service is at nights and traffic light, the transit time is quite good.

As for you attempted escape about the cucumber threads just being a pun. You actually spent weeks arguing your case. It wasn't a pun, you actually believed it.

And needing attention? Then why do you have more than one user name here


----------



## Dallas star

How about Bejing how are they preparing for 2008 olympics?


----------



## Dallas star

Anyone know?


----------



## Castle_Bravo

from urbanrail.net : http://www.urbanrail.net/as/beij/beijing.htm


> There are ambitious plans to expand the subway network in the Chinese capital, which include both subways, light rail and suburban trains (see map). In preparation for the Olympic Games held in Beijing in 2008, the following projects are currently under construction:
> 
> 1) Subway Line 5: The 27.6-km north-south subway will have 16.9 km and 16 stations underground and 10.7 km and six stations above ground. Construction officially started in Dec. 2002.
> 
> 2) Subway Line 4: 28.6 km with 24 stations (Dec. 2003 - Dec. 2007)
> 
> 3) Subway Line 10 with Olympic branch: 30.5 km with 26 stations (Dec. 2003 - Dec. 2007)
> 
> 4) In Dec. 2000 construction of an 18.9 km elevated light metro began, it will link the eastern suburbs of Tongzhou to the subway terminus at Sihuidong (BA Wang Fan). This line is due to be finished in 2002.


I think that Tokyo has the best subway system in the world, and it's surely the most efective. Also the subway in other highly developed cities in Asia is realy good (like in HK or Singapore), but i think that the subway in London is the most beautiful in the world.


----------



## Dallas star

Thx a million Catle Bravo


----------



## BenL

Castle_Bravo said:


> from urbanrail.net : http://www.urbanrail.net/as/beij/beijing.htm
> 
> 
> I think that Tokyo has the best subway system in the world, and it's surely the most efective. Also the subway in other highly developed cities in Asia is realy good (like in HK or Singapore), but i think that the subway in London is the most beautiful in the world.


Most people would say that on beauty alone, Moscow has the best underground system. What do you find striking about London's?


----------



## Canadian Chocho

I love how only 2 people have had the balls to mention Toronto, I applaud your courage! Anyways, yes I agree the best is Tokyo, Toronto is only okay for a city its size.


----------



## Dallas star

Canadian Chocho have any map of Torontos system??? Also any pics of the cool green trains?


----------



## Dallas star

What about Dubai are they doing anything with the public tranportation system?


----------



## Dallas star

Here are some things I dug up ARE NOT MINE
Torontos map


----------



## Dallas star

Another of toronto


----------



## Dallas star

Some i found of Dubai from ssp by Malec thx alot
Construction
<a href="http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3f3qb3.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/2092/3f3qb3.th.jpg" border="0" alt="Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us" /></a>
The train pics
<a href="http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=06aedubaimetro015ln1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/1870/06aedubaimetro015ln1.th.jpg" border="0" alt="Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us" /></a>




[img=http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/4650/dsc07572wh6.jpg]




Map of all


----------



## Bikkel

Justme said:


> Interesting comment. There are quite a few night services. How many cities have a better bus network at night? These are just the dedicated night services:
> http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/spiders/pdf/central-london-night.pdf
> 
> These show all the maps (39 in total) with night services. Many normal services run 24/7.
> http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/spiders/default.asp?borough=night
> 
> And becuase the service is at nights and traffic light, the transit time is quite good.
> 
> As for you attempted escape about the cucumber threads just being a pun. You actually spent weeks arguing your case. It wasn't a pun, you actually believed it.
> 
> And needing attention? Then why do you have more than one user name here


So, you'd settle for quite a few busses in an alpha city that pretends to be the best. London's nightly transport is poor even when compared to a NL city of a pop. of under 150k ... And no smells of piss and vomit here like in binge drinking LDN.

Yeah, cucumbers.

I actually know how much cucumbers cost back then. I was in Britain dozens of times before you were even born, and yes I kept you busy, din't I? Thoroughly enjoyed the banter though. Fruits and vegetables have always been either unavailable or ghastly expensive in the UK, and you seem to forget that the NL hold like 90% of the UK's cucumber market. NL is the biggest food stuff exporter after the USA and France, well ahead of for example your down under or Ca Nada.

Talking completely useless subjects around here is said to be 'komkommernieuws' - news on cucumbers. You indeed never got the pun, hence the effort you once again put in yet another reply.

Anyway; all nice and fine, but why are we discussing the usual suspects? Köln has tremendous public transport. Köln has HSR running straight into the city. Board on HSR, then get off at 200 metres from its prime musea and the Dom.

I'm pretty certain the best PT is not to be found outside of Japan or Europe (NL, BRD, CH, SE, FR).

In Arnhem wheelchair users can board on busses without any effort. We'll now have busses that would allow for enough space for bikers with their bikes. There might be other countries with equally smooth hubs when using public transport but those certainly don't include the cities mentioned in this thread.

Using PT in LDN for example is awfully time consuming.


----------



## Dallas star

Ugh......


----------



## Dallas star

Does anyone know about Japans bullet trains?


----------



## Minato ku

The *Shinkasen* is not a real urban transport

Shinkansen Tōkaidō (Tōkyō - Shin-Ōsaka) 
Shinkansen San'yo (Shin-Ōsaka - Hakata) 
Shinkansen Tōhoku (Tōkyo - Hachinohe) 
Shinkansen Jōetsu (Ōmiya - Niigata) 
Shinkansen Hokuriku ou Shinkansen Nagano (Takasaki - Nagano) 
Shinkansen Kyūshū (Shin-Yatsushiro - Kagoshima-Chuo) 

mini Shinkansen
Shinkansen Yamagata (Fukushima - Shinjo) 
Shinkansen Akita (Morioka - Akita) 










Tokyo station









0 1963 - 1986 220 Kph








100 1984 - 1991 220 Kph








200 1980 - 1986 240 Kph








300 1989 - 1998 270 Kph








400 1990 - 1992 240 Kph








500 1995 - 1998 300 Kph








700 1997 - 2004 285 Kph








800 2003 260 Kph








E1 1994 - 1995 240 Kph








E2 1995 - 275 Kph








E3 1995 - 275 Kph








E4 1997 - 240 Kph


----------



## Dallas star

Awsome great pics 
Wish amtrak would smatin up and build awsome like that.


----------



## Dallas star

Anyone know about Shanghia?


----------



## sweek

Are you just asking questions now to keep your thread going? If you're really curious you could look up those systems, and if you think they're worth putting in this thread, do it yourself.


----------



## XiaoBai

Dallas star said:


> Anyone know about Shanghia?












Shanghai currently has 5 lines in operation, with 4 more currently under construction. Check out the key in the lower right corner of the pic and count the first 5 color bars then find them on the map to see which ones are in operation as of now.


----------



## Marek.kvackaj

Just wonder: best metro(undeground system carrying per capita) is in Prague(population is just 1mil)
but per year carry 500 mil people. So I nominate Prague
Can compleat wit much bigger cites like Moscow,London..both over 8-10 mil population


----------



## Minato ku

Not really

Tokyo Metro 2.819 billion 
Moscow Metro 2.603 billion 2005
Seoul Metro 2.340 billion 2005
New York City Subway 1.449 billion 2005
Mexico City Metro 1.442 billion 2004
Paris Métro 1.336 billion 2004
London Underground 976 million 2005

But the best underground is is not forcing the largest.

*Prague Metro*

































Really nice subway


----------



## pdxheel

For its size (city: 556,000; MSA: 2 million) Portland, Oregon has a very good transportation system. It should be noted that all of Portland's systems have funding for major expansion.

LightRail (serves inner city and major suburbs):

























Street Car (serves downtown):

























Bike/Pedestrian:


----------



## vtower

I think that Pyongyang's subway system is one of the best in the world. It's clean and artistic. They are also very good at saving the electricity. They basically use Berlin's U-Bahn trains for subway and Czech's trams.


----------



## Minato ku

*Lyon* 465,300
Metro area 1,648,216










*Lyon subway * 1978

4 lines 226.1 millions commuters


























*Lyon tramway * 2001
2 lines + 1 under in construction opening in december 2006


----------



## Minato ku

vtower said:


> I think that Pyongyang's subway system is one of the best in the world. It's clean and artistic. They are also very good at saving the electricity. They basically use Berlin's U-Bahn trains for subway and Czech's trams.


Pyongyang use reformed Berlin U bahn trains and old Czech's tram.


----------



## BenL

I think the picture with the soldier was taken in South Korea...


----------



## Minato ku

I think so too.

The hall of this station is too modern and it has english inscription and information hall.


----------



## Dallas star

Prague looks very modern and so does Portlands street car
Pyongyang looks clean mabye cause there are Soldiers garding mabye


----------



## BenL

Well I thought the main reason was that the soldier has the South Korean flag on his uniform!


----------



## vtower

minato ku said:


> The hall of this station is too modern and it has english inscription and information hall.


That is true.


----------



## vtower

Dallas star said:


> Pyongyang looks clean mabye cause there are Soldiers garding mabye


Also, that is why Pyongyang's crime rate is very low. Everything is kept under control.


----------



## Castle_Bravo

And on the jacket of the solider you can see the south-korean flag 

The tram system in portland, looks good :cheers:

I think that the metro system in Prague is nothing special ( I know, in Warsaw it isn't better). The stations and trains are dirty, and old, but it has a good system with park&ride.



>


:eek2::eek2::eek2:
AMAZING!


----------



## Dallas star

nO NIGHT BUSSES UGHS


----------



## Bitxofo

^^No night buses in Tokyo, at leat until 2002. But I don't know nowadays...
:dunno:


----------



## Dallas star

Ohh thats good the traffic at night must have been bad with out busses!


----------



## Unsing

limited but not no...
Who on earth said so?


----------



## lokinyc

well, I'll vote for NYC simply because our system is truly 24hours, buses and subways.


----------



## Dallas star

24 h does not mean good service


----------



## sweek

Unsing said:


> limited but not no...
> Who on earth said so?


The only information i can find on Google is about night buses to other cities. There does not seem to be any local nightly transport, which is quite ridiculous. Or am I wrong and can you point me to a website that does show it?

24 hour service DOES mean good service. It's obviously not the only factor, but I think it is a very important one.


----------



## Minato ku

Paris has night bus system
* Nocillien*
many news night bus lines will be added the next year.
but this system is overcrowed
_note: Only the most important stations is represented in this map_
http://www.ratp.info/picts/plans/pdf/reseaux/noctilien.pdf


----------



## nick_-_taylor

London has possibly or one of the largest night bus networks of any city... so large it can't be fitted onto one map....

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/spiders/pdf/central-london-night.pdf
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/spiders/pdf/north-east-london-night.pdf
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/spiders/pdf/north-west-london-night.pdf
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/spiders/pdf/south-east-london-night.pdf
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/spiders/pdf/south-west-london-night.pdf


----------



## Unsing

sweek said:


> The only information i can find on Google is about night buses to other cities. There does not seem to be any local nightly transport, which is quite ridiculous. Or am I wrong and can you point me to a website that does show it?


Well, You can't get much information in English.
These are from the sites by some of the bus operaters.

Toei http://www.kotsu.metro.tokyo.jp/bus/kanren/iroiro_latenight.html
Tokyu http://www.tokyubus.co.jp/top/info_midnight/index.html
Tobu http://www.tobu.co.jp/bus/htdocs/pc/shinya/index.html http://www.tobu.co.jp/bus/htdocs/pc/shinya_exp/index.html
Seibu http://www.seibu-group.co.jp/bus/
Keio http://www2.keio-bus.com/shinya.html
Keihin http://www.keikyu-bus.co.jp/keikyu-bus/night.html
Keisei http://www.keiseibus.co.jp/pc/shinya-kk/index.html
Sotetsu http://www.sotetsu.co.jp/bus/midnight/


----------



## lokinyc

The MTA does a very good job of running the buses and subways ontime in the very late evening/very early mornings. Back when i would go out clubbing, you never had to wait more than 15 minutes for a train or bus, even at 3, 4 in the morning. According to the schedule on the MTA website, the trains come every 12-16 minutes in the wee hours. Of course when you're wasted, it can seem like an eternity.


----------



## Dallas star

So heres the stats so far 
Nyc l

one person has voted for a city u have to say u vote for the city for it to count


----------



## Dallas star

Also what suburb has the best infrasturcture like rail , bus , subway


----------



## Dallas star

does mta have an expasion i saw somthing on a tv show


----------



## alsen

TOKYO..!!!!


----------



## Manila-X

HK has night buses but are limited compared to cities such as NY or London. Also, they mostly run on core parts so if you live in Shek O, you're in deep ish!


----------



## ejd03

vtower said:


> I think that Pyongyang's subway system is one of the best in the world. It's clean and artistic. They are also very good at saving the electricity. They basically use Berlin's U-Bahn trains for subway and Czech's trams.



well you posted "south korean" soldiers in the middle of your pics. anyways seoul metro system is really good. one of the best


----------



## Kaitak747

HONG KONG 














































































Terrence said:


>





Terrence said:


>


----------



## EricIsHim

WANCH said:


> HK has night buses but are limited compared to cities such as NY or London. Also, they mostly run on core parts so if you live in Shek O, you're in deep ish!


if you live in Shek O, i am sure you can afford a short ride of taxi.
for the most part of HK, you have night buses or minibus running.

by all mean , i think hong kong does have the best system. there is full of options; they are safe, clean, efficient, frequent, and reliable.


----------



## Dallas star

awesome i love hong kong
anyone have any pics of tokyo


----------



## Dallas star

There arent any subways in Melbourne i thought the was.


----------



## Justme

Dallas star said:


> There arent any subways in Melbourne i thought the was.


No. Some of the suburban networks have small sections underground in the city center, but generally they are suburban rail networks. In many cases though, they are similar to the German S-bahn, although generally more like a cross between the S-bahn (hybrid suburban rail) and R-bahn (regional rail)

But not subways or metros.


----------



## Dallas star

Thx alot


----------



## Guest

Madrid


----------



## Kenwen

WANCH said:


> It's pretty obvious where I live
> 
> During the day yes but how bout after midnight? The MTR doesn't run past 12 and nightbuses are limited. Yes there are taxis it's they cost more especially if you're travelling long distance.
> 
> And yes most of those living in Shek O can afford a taxi ride especially those coming home drunk from a party in Lan Kwai Fong
> 
> The city with the best transportation system is one where you *don't* need to own or buy a car. And HK is one of this.


I agree with u, hk is a city where u dont need a car because the public transport is so convinient, i dont even need to use taxi for most of the time i stay in hk, i will choose hk for this


----------



## Dallas star

Ok
Hong Kong l
Only one city voed for common.


----------



## svs

I've been all over the world and have never seen a system better than Paris. I don't think there is a single place in the city more than three blocks from a metro station, and there is a very elaborate bus system as well. The RER connects the city to just about any place your might want to go in the suburbs. NY is great if you live on the west side and want to go uptown or down town, but not so hot if you want to go cross town. Train service is good to the island but you have to get to the right terminals first. Tokyo covers a lot of territory and hooks up with the bullet trains which are fantastic but there is the issue of sardine can like crowding. Same with Mexico City. London is great in the central city but not so good in the outer parts of town. I think the Paris metro sets the standard for everybody else (now if they just didn't go on strike all the time and close down after midnight.....).


----------



## anm

^^

So, how does Moscow compare to these cities in your opinion?


----------



## SkylineHeaven

NYC has the best in the world without a thought! Then Chicago the 2nd best in US of course!:lol:


----------



## xAKxRUSx

Moscow has one of the best transport systems


----------



## Dallas star

Guys to verify your vote say you vote for what ever city you chose or I cannot tally up the scores.


----------



## Dallas star

Madrid-1
Hong Kong-1
Moscow-1
Paris-1
Is that it?


----------



## Peshu

Very difficult to out-do Madrid .
For it's population Madrid is quite a compact city . Add to it the fact that it is the most dynamic city in Europe . With the worlds best nightlife . i.e throngs of people late at night means the transport authorities can make a huge business virtually 24/7 .


----------



## itsmevishal2k4

some of the plans of mumbai

















^^ new metro line coming up









mumbai already has a train system that is on ground but they are planning on building a metro, has bus lines, and 60,000 taxis(correct me if im wrong) and over 100,000 autorickshawas (motorized 3 wheelers in use only in subarbs)


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## Dallas star

Wow never seen anything of Mumbai looks great!


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## Karakuri

Hi everybody.
Paris has the best transportation system in the world as far as I know. Why?:
London: I remember having spent some time in London for christmas once, and the underground, buses and trains didn't work!!! Moreover british trains are famous for being dangerous (many accidents).
Tokyo: have you ever tried to walk between 2 subway stations? It takes more than half an hour. As for me stations are too far away from each other. The bus service is so poor (as in the whole country), and there is NO tram at all.

But the problem in Paris is big: it is dirty, bad smelling and the security is not sufficient. There are too many graffitis, people pissing, collapsing ceilings... And the RER is dirty, some people have nothing better to do than engraving words on the windows, setting fire to the seats...
But fortunately stations are beeing renewed one after one, and the RER aging trains will be replaced by 2009.


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## anm

Karakuri said:


> But the problem in Paris is big: it is dirty, bad smelling and the security is not sufficient. There are too many graffitis, people pissing, collapsing ceilings... And the RER is dirty, some people have nothing better to do than engraving words on the windows, setting fire to the seats...
> But fortunately stations are beeing renewed one after one, and the RER aging trains will be replaced by 2009.


If people also not replaced along with the trains, they will paint graffitis, piss on the renovated stations, engrave windows and set seats on fire in the new trains just the same... As Miklhail Bulgakov says in "The heart of a dog" - the problem is not in the poor state of a toilet, it is in people's heads.


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## Minato ku

No there are not to many graffity in trains and stations 
The problem is inside the tunnel.

In fact newest trains in Paris metro are cleaner than the older.
The newest line (opened in 1998) is clean.

Paris has many problem

Metro
line 4 : The second busiest line of Paris subway has very old train 
crowed and without air cond
(MF 59 1964 renovated in 1989 )
line 13 : the most crowed line of Paris metro 
pushers will be committed

Bus : Parisian car traffic is really dense a creazy

RER
line A : too busy
Line B : Need a renovation
Line B and Line D : one tunnel for two lines between 
Line C : Too slow and too many branch
Line D : Too many branch


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## Dallas star

Who do u vote for dude?


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## tablemtn

Paris's transportation network is not very good in some of the suburbs. In fact, places like Clichy-sous-Bois are very isolated, and it takes a long time. La Courneuve only has one station, and the next station on that line is all the way in Le Bourget. The bus system is very incomplete in these areas, too. 

In fact, the serious isolation in Paris's suburbs is part of the reason behind the riots and car burnings.

I'd have to vote for Tokyo, simply because the area has so many people, and the subway lines are so extensive.


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## Manila-X

EricIsHim said:


> ^^ You got the point. And one thing unlike many other cities, all the transportation modes in HK compete with each other to find their own markets and survive. From point A to point B, there are always more than one choices of transportation and they are just as fast as each other. This competition maintains the high standard of service in all modes of transportation and keep the best improving.


I agree with HK's transportation as well. But not every place in the region is well covered such as parts of any outlying island, The New Territories or even the south and southeastern parts of HK Island. Areas such as Tai Tam, Repulse Bay and Stanley and accessible by bus but why bother? Most of those who live there can afford a car.


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## hkskyline

WANCH said:


> I agree with HK's transportation as well. But not every place in the region is well covered such as parts of any outlying island, The New Territories or even the south and southeastern parts of HK Island. Areas such as Tai Tam, Repulse Bay and Stanley and accessible by bus but why bother? Most of those who live there can afford a car.


A lot of people in Hong Kong can afford cars even if they don't live in the rich enclaves. But the fact that the middle class has shunned the car for public transit shows convenience and coverage are key factors.


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## Karakuri

Japan's railway network is unbeatable.


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## EricIsHim

WANCH said:


> I agree with HK's transportation as well. But not every place in the region is well covered such as parts of any outlying island, The New Territories or even the south and southeastern parts of HK Island. Areas such as Tai Tam, Repulse Bay and Stanley and accessible by bus but why bother? Most of those who live there can afford a car.


By all mean, competition is not just railways vs buses, minibus is also in competition with franchised bus and taxis and vice versa. Tai Tam, Repulse Bay and Stanley are well served by bus as well as minibus. If you count how many bus routes and minibus routes origin at Stanely via Repulse Bay, you get a handful of them.


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## Dallas star

W00T finaly ppl from Hong Kong post about hk transit not other ppl out of HK!!!
What would the fastest transport be from point a - point b????
And how about the bullet train?????


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## krull

NYC trasportation might look outdated and dirty, but it has an express service (which I really like) and it runs 24 hours! Oh and the service is usually on time and very reliable. Except on weekends when they seem to not run the express trains sometimes because of track construction related work. Or so they say. :| 

They are fixing up stations and doing cleaning but it does take forever!


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## Manila-X

EricIsHim said:


> By all mean, competition is not just railways vs buses, minibus is also in competition with franchised bus and taxis and vice versa. Tai Tam, Repulse Bay and Stanley are well served by bus as well as minibus. If you count how many bus routes and minibus routes origin at Stanely via Repulse Bay, you get a handful of them.


Yes buses and mini buses frequently serve this area pretty well also taxis. But in one thread long time ago, we discuss on the MTR's expansion and why the south line only goes to the Aberdeen / Ap Lei Chau area. I just don't think and MTR line to Repulse Bay / Stanley isn't needed.

As for the bullet train? HK doesn't need one.


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## hkskyline

krull said:


> NYC trasportation might look outdated and dirty, but it has an express service (which I really like) and it runs 24 hours! Oh and the service is usually on time and very reliable. Except on weekends when they seem to not run the express trains sometimes because of track construction related work. Or so they say. :|
> 
> They are fixing up stations and doing cleaning but it does take forever!


To be fair, it is extremely difficult to renovate New York's subway stations because of their age. They were simply not designed to handle today's passenger flow or facilities, and it will cost a lot of money to upgrade them to today's standard. That being said, London's Underground has done a fine job renovating a lot of its stations in the central zone (1), and would be a fine model to follow for New York.


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## hkskyline

WANCH said:


> As for the bullet train? HK doesn't need one.


Hong Kong is planning with Guangdong province for a high speed rail line to Guangzhou. The terminus is expected to be near the West Kowloon Cultural District. They're already digging there for a new rail extension to connect 2 KCR lines.


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## EricIsHim

WANCH said:


> Yes buses and mini buses frequently serve this area pretty well also taxis. But in one thread long time ago, we discuss on the MTR's expansion and why the south line only goes to the Aberdeen / Ap Lei Chau area. I just don't think and MTR line to Repulse Bay / Stanley isn't needed.
> 
> As for the bullet train? HK doesn't need one.


Repulse Bay and Stanley aren't dense enough to support any heavy rail and geographically, it is almost impossible to build a heavy railway there.

The southern island just got turned down by the government again last week. It is only the forth on the list. The plan has been around for more than a decade now and possibly for another decade before becomes reality.


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## EricIsHim

Dallas star said:


> W00T finaly ppl from Hong Kong post about hk transit not other ppl out of HK!!!
> What would the fastest transport be from point a - point b????
> And how about the bullet train?????


Many of us have lived and travelled other major cities around the world. We have experienced the public transportation there. It is not because we are from HK and simply says HK is at the top of the list. It is our personal experience feel that HK tranportation system is one of the best among all cities.

There is no real answer for the point a - point b question, unless a and b are definied. I can only say for most part of HK, travel with public transportation is just as fast as you drive or even faster, and motor vehicles can serve destinations more directly and possibly as fast as railways.

By far, bullet train is not needed within the city boundary, the city is too small for it. But as hkskyline, there are plans to have such train services wiht other Peral River Delta cities.


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## krull

hkskyline said:


> To be fair, it is extremely difficult to renovate New York's subway stations because of their age. They were simply not designed to handle today's passenger flow or facilities, and it will cost a lot of money to upgrade them to today's standard. That being said, London's Underground has done a fine job renovating a lot of its stations in the central zone (1), and would be a fine model to follow for New York.


I understand. But London seem to get a good amount of help from the federal government for its public infrastructure. Something tha NYC doesn't get too often. This is a big country and roads are the king here. NYC gives alot of money to the federal government than it gets back. It is really unfair.


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## Manila-X

EricIsHim said:


> Many of us have lived and travelled other major cities around the world. We have experienced the public transportation there. It is not because we are from HK and simply says HK is at the top of the list. It is our personal experience feel that HK tranportation system is one of the best among all cities.
> 
> There is no real answer for the point a - point b question, unless a and b are definied. I can only say for most part of HK, travel with public transportation is just as fast as you drive or even faster, and motor vehicles can serve destinations more directly and possibly as fast as railways.
> 
> By far, bullet train is not needed within the city boundary, the city is too small for it. But as hkskyline, there are plans to have such train services wiht other Peral River Delta cities.


True of being more of a personal experience. Another factor would be safety. Commuting in HK is safe. You don't have to worry about getting robbed or mugged.


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## hkskyline

krull said:


> I understand. But London seem to get a good amount of help from the federal government for its public infrastructure. Something tha NYC doesn't get too often. This is a big country and roads are the king here. NYC gives alot of money to the federal government than it gets back. It is really unfair.


Yes, funding is a major headache especially for these aging systems that require significant maintenance budgets, sometimes even more than to build everything from scratch.


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## superchan7

Hong Kong's system is superb in many reasons, and one of them is the natural geographic environment that the city was forced to develop in. I believe the resulting population density is also a reason for the popularity (and profitability) of mass transit.


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## EricIsHim

^^ The resulting population density is the main key of the success.


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## Dallas star

Yes exspecially because of the hilly terrain!


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## Manila-X

Not really public transportation but how about The Mid-Levels escalator?

Imagine how convenient for Mid-Levels residents coming home from work especially if they're working in Central.


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## hkskyline

WANCH said:


> Not really public transportation but how about The Mid-Levels escalator?
> 
> Imagine how convenient for Mid-Levels residents coming home from work especially if they're working in Central.


The Midlevels escalator is just a series of passageways much like an underground pathway system as in Toronto's PATH or an above-ground system as in Calgary's +15. It's not a mode of public transport since it isn't really any vehicular form of movement - just a series of escalators.


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## Dallas star

Is it true the escalators only go one way at a certain time and you need to walk stairs on the other side???


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## hkskyline

Dallas star said:


> Is it true the escalators only go one way at a certain time and you need to walk stairs on the other side???


Yes, in the morning escalators run downhill and they reverse for the afternoon rush.


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## Manila-X

hkskyline said:


> Yes, in the morning escalators run downhill and they reverse for the afternoon rush.


But around midnight, the escalators stop operation.


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## hkskyline

WANCH said:


> But around midnight, the escalators stop operation.


Well, obviously. Why waste the electricity to power these machines when there is little traffic? Even the MTR stops some of its escalators on weekends to conserve power. There is a strong movement locally to be more environmental these days.


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## Dallas star

Thats good NY should really follow hks mtr!


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## Manila-X

Dallas star said:


> Thats good NY should really follow hks mtr!


One difference is, some of NY's metro lines run 24 hours. HK's MTR stops several minutes after midnight.

I think the priority of NY's metro system for now should be modernizing it's trains and ticketing system.


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## hkskyline

WANCH said:


> One difference is, some of NY's metro lines run 24 hours. HK's MTR stops several minutes after midnight.
> 
> I think the priority of NY's metro system for now should be modernizing it's trains and ticketing system.


New York subway's frequencies drop considerably after midnight. Even on weekends the wait for a train can take many many minutes. The MTA really need to start modernizing the aging stations. Maintenance is a big issue for them. Some of the lines now have new trains and they look quite nice. Their LED screens are more modern than the MTR!

The MTA is also experimenting with a smart card payment system that is linked to a bank account. Citibank is trying it out on the 4/5/6 line.


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## EricIsHim

The down time of MTR during late night is the usual time of any maintanence work along the entire network. It is the time to find any damage on the rail track, lights, etc. and proceed with repairments. It is necessary to have the system shuts down for service to keep the system up. All the screen doors installed on all of the indoor platforms were done a few hours every night for a long period of time.

New York subway's frequency does not just drop considerably, but also runs as local service stopping at every station. The new MTA trains do look awesome, but MTA needs to keep up with its maintanence work to keep the trains look good. Otherwise, they become old very quick. 

The MTA ticket system is very simple, it's US$2 per ride no matter where you go. With the new card system, it does speed up the process. I think it works just like the octopus, but it is a real MasterCard.


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## _00_deathscar

WANCH said:


> I agree with HK's transportation as well. But not every place in the region is well covered such as parts of any outlying island, The New Territories or even the south and southeastern parts of HK Island. Areas such as Tai Tam, Repulse Bay and Stanley and accessible by bus but why bother? Most of those who live there can afford a car.


That's a very narrow minded view. As hkskyline said, nevermind Repulse Bay and Stanley but many in much 'lesser' neighbourhoods can afford cars, but prefer to use the public transport instead as in the long run it saves money as well.


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## JoKo65

xAKxRUSx said:


> Moscow, Russia.
> 
> You can get just about anywhere in the city using public transport. Quick and easy.


I agree, I think it's Moscow.


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## Dallas star

ok a vote for moscow and welcome to SSC JoKo65 !


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## ignoramus

hkskyline said:


> New York subway's frequencies drop considerably after midnight. Even on weekends the wait for a train can take many many minutes. The MTA really need to start modernizing the aging stations. Maintenance is a big issue for them. Some of the lines now have new trains and they look quite nice. Their LED screens are more modern than the MTR!
> 
> The MTA is also experimenting with a smart card payment system that is linked to a bank account. Citibank is trying it out on the 4/5/6 line.


citibank is really going after the public transit fare payment market! They have even launched a hybrid VISA card-contactless smart card for fare payments in Singapore late last year. It is used just like any other VISA credit card except that you can use it to "tap" in and out of the fare readers as well when using the trains and buses.


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## JoKo65

Dallas star said:


> ok a vote for moscow and welcome to SSC JoKo65 !


Thanks!


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## hkskyline

ignoramus said:


> citibank is really going after the public transit fare payment market! They have even launched a hybrid VISA card-contactless smart card for fare payments in Singapore late last year. It is used just like any other VISA credit card except that you can use it to "tap" in and out of the fare readers as well when using the trains and buses.


Website for the New York limited trial : http://www.mastercard.com/us/paypass/subway/index.html

Trial ends 31 May 2007.


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## Mahratta

I would have to say London. Overall, it is flawless in its mass transport system. Toronto isnt that bad, but the bus fares are high..


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## Chilenofuturista

According to me, Madrid.


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## -Corey-

id say that new york has the best transportation system.


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## Dallas star

What about Barcelona? I heard Madrid...


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## luisdaniel

^^ Madrid It's far better i think


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## Dallas star

Yes, madrid realies on cars too much since they are creating huge free ways systems like the boston big-dig!


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## Brizer

It's definitely NOT Houston!! What do the poor & disadvantaged folk do?!


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## CORLEONE

JoKo65 said:


> First of all Madrid has not 320 km metro. Second Madrid has S-Bahn (cercanías) too.


YOU ARE RIGHT IT HAS 317 km hno: 
CERCANIAS HAS 339,1 km

TOTAL: 656 Km


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## CORLEONE

LARGER METRO SYSTEMS:

Londres 408 Km 
Nueva York 393,3 Km 
Madrid 317 Km 
Tokio 292,3 Km
Moscú 278,3 Km 
París 212,5 Km


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## Minato ku

I always thinked that is weird.

Paris metro is smaller than Madrid metro but Paris metro has 2x more passengers than Madrid metro.

Do you know crowd in Madrid metro ?


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## Guest

minato ku said:


> I always thinked that is weird.
> 
> Paris metro is smaller than Madrid metro but Paris metro has 2x more passengers than Madrid metro.
> 
> Do you know crowd in Madrid metro ?


Yep, i'm not living in Madrid, but I have friends. In rush hours, Madrid metro is impossible too.


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## JoKo65

How big is the RER network in Paris?


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## Minato ku

571 km.









The central sections are vey crowed.


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## ale26

frozen said:


> Yep, i'm not living in Madrid, but I have friends. In rush hours, Madrid metro is impossible too.



Omg no one cares:| every major city in the world's metro during rush hour is impossible!!

Get over yourselves.


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## GNU

frozen said:


> So like Madrid (tube and RENFE
> 
> Madrid RENFE


But RENFE is commuter rail right?
Im not really sure if you can compare both.
There is a metro train network in Berlin aswell for example.


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## Minato ku

frozen said:


> Yep, i'm not living in Madrid, but I have friends. In rush hours, Madrid metro is impossible too.


I know it was a little joke. :lol:


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## CORLEONE

The point is that, if Madrid has more km of underground than Paris and less people using it, this means that there is a higher quality and the system is better. I have used Madrid´d underground all my life and I never saw such a crowdy station as the pictures shown from Paris, unless in Santiago Bernabeu´s stop in sunday football match or in Las Ventas in Bullfight periods.

Madrid Metro was used by 655 million people in 2006
Paris is 1,365 billon people.


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## Minato ku

Actually I prefer crowed subway.  
It show that Paris metro is more profitable than Madrid metro.

A new ring line is planned in inner suburbs, the traffic is estimated at 1 million passengers per day.


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## Guest

Checker said:


> But RENFE is commuter rail right?
> Im not really sure if you can compare both.
> There is a metro train network in Berlin aswell for example.


The same happen with Madrid. In Madrid houses prices are impossible, and people goes to live out of the city. Madrid has 3 million of people but the metro area is about 6. This is the symbol of Commuter trains in Spain (Called "Cercanías"):










Madrid is rounded by cities of medium size which made up the ring of Madrid. Lots of people travel every morning to go to their jobs (In 11-M, the attacks happened in RENFE trains, not in the tube. The victims were people which come from these parts to Madrid). 

The bigger ring madrid cities are:

Alcalá de Henares 204.000
Alcorcón 162.524
Alcobendas 103.149
Coslada 82.894
Fuenlabrada 195.131
Getafe 158.363
Leganés 181.248
Móstoles 216.821
Parla 101.458
Pozuelo de Alarcón 78.083 
Las Rozas 71.937 
San Sebastián de los Reyes 65.767 
Torrejón de Ardoz 32,6 109.483 

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Área_metropolitana_de_Madrid

Renfe commuter trains:



















At Atocha Station:










At Príncipe Pío Station:


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## Guest

minato ku said:


> 571 km.


For sure! Paris has the double metro area population than Madrid


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## GNU

frozen said:


> The same happen with Madrid. In Madrid houses prices are impossible, and people goes to live out of the city. Madrid has 3 million of people but the metro area is about 6. This is the symbol of Commuter trains in Spain (Called "Cercanías"):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Madrid is rounded by cities of medium size which made up the ring of Madrid. Lots of people travel every morning to go to their jobs (In 11-M, the attacks happened in RENFE trains, not in the tube. The victims were people which come from these parts to Madrid).
> 
> The bigger ring madrid cities are:
> 
> Alcalá de Henares 204.000
> Alcorcón 162.524
> Alcobendas 103.149
> Coslada 82.894
> Fuenlabrada 195.131
> Getafe 158.363
> Leganés 181.248
> Móstoles 216.821
> Parla 101.458
> Pozuelo de Alarcón 78.083
> Las Rozas 71.937
> San Sebastián de los Reyes 65.767
> Torrejón de Ardoz 32,6 109.483
> 
> http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Área_metropolitana_de_Madrid
> 
> Renfe commuter trains:


allright so RENFE is more comparable to the Regionalexpress in Germany then which serve the metro and surrounding cities.
the S-Bahn is urban transportation though.

(S-Bahn on the left and Regionalexpress on the right)


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## Minato ku

frozen said:


> For sure! Paris has the double metro area population than Madrid


Don't forget that RER is not all the suburban rail of Paris.
Paris suburban system


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## Guest

minato ku said:


> Don't forget that RER is not all the suburban rail of Paris.
> Paris suburban system


Ok, so maybe Paris suburban system is closer to Berlin ones. We have a simpler ones so. But they work pretty good


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## CORLEONE

minato ku said:


> Actually I prefer crowed subway.
> It show that Paris metro is more profitable than Madrid metro.QUOTE]
> 
> I prefer to do the Metro for the users and feel confortable in it. For me, that I use it every day, is more profitable to pay 1 Euro to move all around the city by metro and find a place to sit most of the days I use it, than knowing that somebody else is winning money from me while I travel with the breath of a smelly guy on my face.
> 
> By the other hand the metro invoice system is quite well made so there is really few people that gets into the underground without paying, thats way you will never find controlers in Madrid underground neither in Cercanias.


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## CORLEONE

minato ku said:


> Actually I prefer crowed subway.
> It show that Paris metro is more profitable than Madrid metro.


I prefer to do the Metro for the users and feel confortable in it. For me, that I use it every day, is more profitable to pay 1 Euro to move all around the city by metro and find a place to sit most of the days I use it, than knowing that somebody else is winning money from me while I travel with the breath of a smelly guy on my face.

By the other hand the metro invoice system is quite well made so there is really few people that gets into the underground without paying, thats way you will never find controlers in Madrid underground neither in Cercanias.


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## YohIMhER

i think tokyo has by far the best public transportation system in the world. it has 36 lines with 1000+ stations that carry 20 million people daily. 

according to the Urban Transport Factbook, There are 0.61 commuter rail stations in the Tokyo area per square mile (one for each 1.6 square miles) of developed land area, combined with the high density connecting bus networks, Commuter rail ridership very dense, at 6 million per line mile annually, by the highest among automotive urban areas.

the total length may not be as long as some of the other cities, but we also have to take the physical size of these cities into account, according to wikipedia, tokyo's surface area is only 620 km², while nyc has 780 km², Moscow 1081 km² and london 1580 km².


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## Minato ku

It is wrong, for that don't count the size of the city but the suze of the metro area.

In number of km in the central city Paris win.
Over 3 stations per km² 

But I agree with you for me Tokyo is the best.


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