# NYC Crisis: Overcrowded Sidewalks



## Tom_Green (Sep 4, 2004)

krull said:


> ^ Maybe you are use to that, but I am not... I want to be able to walk without me having to walk on the street.


I am from Germany. My hometown has 8.000 people. I am not used to this, but i like it. 

The street is closed for the traffic.


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## Marathoner (Oct 1, 2005)

Then, you should also like HK.
We also have lots of these scenes in many places. And is noisier.


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## Tom_Green (Sep 4, 2004)

Marathoner said:


> Then, you should also like HK.
> We also have lots of these scenes in many places. And is noisier.


Yes i really enjoyed my stay in HK.
The street are full of life. 

Pic by me.


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## Accura4Matalan (Jan 7, 2004)

Khanabadosh said:


> Crowded sidewalks are quite common and normal in many european cities. I think this is a symbol of vibrant life.


I was thinking the same thing. Many of the streets in my city's centre have sidewalks as crowded as those in the pics.


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## krull (Oct 8, 2005)

^ Yeah well is my understaing that sidewalks in europe are narrower then the ones in NYC which are wider.


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## Martin S (Sep 12, 2002)

I notice that NYC does not go in for the British solution of pedestrianisation - i.e. close a street to motor vehicles at peak times and make it into one wide sidewalk. Not always popular but maybe the only solution.

I can think of worse problems.


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## reluminate (Aug 3, 2004)

^ They're considering that for 42nd St in NYC. The want to close the street to vehicular traffic and make it into a pedestrian mall with light rail down the center.


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## Jules (Jun 27, 2004)

Crowded streets help give Manhattan its indentity. I couldn't imagine them empty.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

RP1 said:


> Crowded streets help give Manhattan its indentity. I couldn't imagine them empty.


Couldn't imaging it either just like most streets in LA!

But that crowd density isn't that bad though! Compare it with Hong Kong streets especially when you're in Causeway Bay or Mong Kok!


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## Dallascaper (Jul 19, 2005)

I was in Times Square for Halloween '04; nice place, busy but not too crowded. But TS is not like Vegas, it was dead after 1 AM.

Those pictures of "street-life," however, make me glad I live in a sunbelt city. People are okay, but hoards of people living like insects turn me off. No offense, but that picture of Osaka is enough to make me vomit; there is no way...


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## streetscapeer (Apr 30, 2004)

When I was in New York in late November, it was much more crowded than in those pics...maybe those pics are just representations cuz when I went, there were actually throngs of people walking in the street because of massive jam on all the sidewalks sidewalks


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## DrJoe (Sep 12, 2002)

I suppose this is a good problem to have. 

Toronto was getting quite busy during Christmas time


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## philadweller (Oct 30, 2003)

This is a good thing. every US downtown/midtown should be so lucky. Fortunately most of the impenetrable crowds in NYC are between Penn Station and Times Square. There are other neighborhoods in Manhattan which are bustling but in a more comfortable way. 

Rockefeller Center and the tree, the Empire State Building, Port Authority, Radio City Music Hall, Broadway, the Chrysler Building, Grand Central Station, 5th ave, 42 street, the southern tip of Central Park...well it these attractions which keep the pulse a pumping, and they are all in the same Midtown chunk of the island so it makes perfect sense to have this much pedestrian traffic.

I like to watch people literally pour out of Penn Station and Grand Central Station.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

krull said:


> ^ Yeah well is my understaing that sidewalks in europe are narrower then the ones in NYC which are wider.


Umm, negitive. At least in the context of inner city area's where the main shopping streets are usually pedestrian zones with no traffic. This makes them pretty wide and they can still be as crowded as the shots previously of New York Streets.

Even the streets which have traffic like NY such as Oxford Street can be incredibly crowded and still pretty wide. Most of Oxford Streets pavements are as wide as the average NY sidewalk

London









































New York


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## JDRS (Feb 8, 2004)

samsonyuen said:


> Good news, but it can be a problem if it makes people not want to go back. I personally hate shopping on Oxford Street in London, and avoid it unless I have to go there to shop.


Indeed. There have been occasions when I've been on Oxford Street and literally people have stopped moving in a human gridlock (great for pickpockets)


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## A42251 (Sep 13, 2004)

krull said:


> There were estimates that there were 700,000 people in Times Square tonight!!!
> 
> That is the size of people in a small city all pack in Times Square! :eek2:


700,000 is amazing but they had two million at the millennium countdown six years ago! 

I wasn't in NYC this holiday season but I was in 2004. I remember being forced to walk in the street in Times Square because the entire sidewalk was taken up. 

Fifth Avenue near Rockefeller Center was at a standstill. The crowd of pedestrians was not moving. When you go to see the tree, it can take ten minutes just to walk from Fifth Avenue down the prominede that leads to the ice skating rink. 

Canal street in Chinatown has had impenetrable crowds most times I have been there, no matter what time of year.

I have been all of the top-tier alpha cities and I never experienced street-level crowds like I have in NYC.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Here are images of Central District in HK on a typical afternoon.


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## krull (Oct 8, 2005)

No wonder I saw more people this year...


*Record Year for Tourism*


A record 41 million people visited New York last year, according to estimates from city tourism officials. In November and December alone, 8.25 million tourists visited the city, spending $4 billion on hotels, restaurants, shopping, and entertainment, one of the best holiday seasons in years. These numbers seem to indicate that the predicted economic disaster of the subway strike did not come to pass. Mayor Michael Bloomberg said there’s no reason to expect the trend will reverse, but he and other city officials took the chance to urge the importance of faster progress on the Javits Convention Center.


@ Gotham Gazette


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## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

useless thread.
If the sidewalks are overcrowded,well then enlarge them.not a big deal I suppose


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## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

Justme said:


> Umm, negitive. At least in the context of inner city area's where the main shopping streets are usually pedestrian zones with no traffic. This makes them pretty wide and they can still be as crowded as the shots previously of New York Streets.
> 
> Even the streets which have traffic like NY such as Oxford Street can be incredibly crowded and still pretty wide. Most of Oxford Streets pavements are as wide as the average NY sidewalk
> 
> London


I think those pics from Oxford street were made during the christmas time when it indeed gets totally crazy.
but that happens in most places.
On a normal day Oxford street is not too crowded.
If you go there at around 8 to 11 you'll even find that its quite empty.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

Checker said:


> I think those pics from Oxford street were made during the christmas time when it indeed gets totally crazy.
> but that happens in most places.
> On a normal day Oxford street is not too crowded.
> If you go there at around 8 to 11 you'll even find that its quite empty.


Many of them were from the Xmas period, but others just in the winter months. Yes, Oxford street is even more crowded in two months up to Xmas, but so are the streets in NY. Afterall, the original article was exactly about that, the extra crowds in NY in November & December.

I Quote


> City sidewalks, busy sidewalks
> *'Tis the season to be overcrowded; NY, businesses seek ways to cope with record numbers of tourists*
> The Big Apple is girding to host a record 8.2 million visitors in November and December, according to tourism bureau NYC & Company. City and neighborhood officials as well as big retailers have been scrambling to prepare for the onslaught and to lay out plans for future years that promise even bigger crowds.


Oxford Street does have it's quiet moments in the early morning as you wrote, but that increases throughout the day and by the late afternoon it is choker blocked whether summer or winter.

And the same goes for Saturday's and Sunday's, particularly Saturday which is the busiest day of the week on Oxford Street.

It is one incredibly busy street, as busy as anything in NY and there is no point in denying it.

summer in Oxford St


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## Metropolitan (Sep 21, 2004)

Here are few pictures of Paris RER. Those pictures are about normal daily crowds at the rush hour in the morning. Please note that there are one train every 2 minutes.

According to the RATP, the line A of the RER is the busiest urban rail line in the world.



















I'm sorry if those pictures are obscure, but that's because I'm a bad photographer. It was automatically flashing when the light couldn't illuminate so far.


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## krull (Oct 8, 2005)

Justme said:


> It is one incredibly busy street, as busy as anything in NY and there is no point in denying it.


Really? Even more busier than Times Square?

Times Square is an all year around busy sidewalk event! It is nuts! As a native New yorker I try to avoid it. But the purpose of the thread is that other non-busy streets are getting full of people... It is becoming Like that of Times Square. Maybe it was the Holiday thing. But I never saw that much people in the holiday like this past one. Especially people wanting to be in such temperatures in the winter time. Crazy.


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## Mosaic (Feb 18, 2005)

Osaka is as dense as Tokyo. Really excited.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2006)

I actually like the crowds.

I am in New York 99.999% of my free time and I love it.

I remember maybe a year or so ago, I rode the subway in Philadelphia, NO COMPARISON!

I felt alone. In fact, it was so frightening, if someone were to be robbed, there would be no one around to stop it!

At least in NYC, the NYPD are always there.

So say what you will about the crowds, but I love it! kay:


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## Tina From Taihape (Sep 27, 2004)

Tom_Green said:


> pfff......
> an normal day in Osaka. Pic by me.


Oh shit

My ass will,be pinched black and blue LOL *imagine all those crotches rubbing up against me* LOL
I swear that I will have a panic attack
It is unbelievable, very impressive


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## Æsahættr (Jul 9, 2004)

Shibuya


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## gutooo (Jan 30, 2005)

São Paulo - Brazil


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## krull (Oct 8, 2005)

I think some of you are showing photos when there is a parade or a festival or some special-day-sales crowds or people leaving some sort of concert, theater or whatever. :sly: 

I mean I am talking about an everyday thing that has been growing... (especially on the holidays) I am not making it up... there was a story on the first page to tell the tale.


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## Jaye101 (Feb 16, 2005)

OtAkAw said:


> 700,000? Im not impressed. 5,000,000 people gathered in Luneta Park in Manila during the visit of Pope John Paul II for the World Youth Day in 1995.


That's Toronto's Metro. :eek2:


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## Shawn (Nov 12, 2002)

I recently saw a TV program on NHK (Japan's public television) on Shinjuku Station, and it said that at any given point in time on a weekday, there are roughly 700,000 people inside Shinjuku Station and its immediate vicinity: thats roughly 600,000 pp sq mile. 3.5 million people actually use the trains in Shinjuku every day - the busiest train station on earth. 

And I avoid it like the plague, because despite how cool it may look in photos, it is absolutely hell when you need to be somewhere and you literally cant move because a wall of humanity hundreds of thousands of people thick separates you from your destination a quarter mile down the hall.

Krull, this is Shibuya Crossing (also the busiest pedestrian crossing on earth) at about 7:30pm on an average Tuesday in September:


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## seattlehawk (Nov 18, 2005)

When it comes to crowded streets, HK and Japanese cities clearly take the cake. There is no question about that, IMO


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## Justadude (Jul 15, 2004)

I don't see how this is a "positive" any more than a traffic jam. It's all fine and well to boast about overcrowding from a nightlife standpoint, but when you actually have to live and work in a city it stops being "fun" about the time you end up getting your breath squeezed out by a fat, sweaty, stinking, creepy-looking stranger that's standing just a little _too_ close to your hindquarters.

I don't see much that can be done about the problem, though. Closing the street to motor traffic is an option, but it creates other problems (namely automotive gridlock) when attempted in a place as large as NYC. Perhaps removing a lane from the road would help? It would discourage auto traffic and allow a significant amount of space to widen the sidewalks.


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## krull (Oct 8, 2005)

Ok I think I need a vacation in 2006 for a month. Hmm... I think I will go to Europe. :runaway: 


*NYC expects record number of tourists in 2006*


by Catherine Tymkiw 
January 17, 2006

*Get used to crowded sidewalks * and busy cash registers this year. Tourists are expected to flock to the Big Apple in record numbers, according to NYC & Company. 

*The city’s tourism bureau anticipates a record 43.3 million people will visit the city, up 4.5% from 2005. The number of international visitors should rise 7.5% to a record 7.2 million.* The totals would mark a full rebound from the tourism slump following the Sept. 11 attacks. 

Tourism generates more than $22 billion in spending, $5.4 billion in taxes and $13 billion in wages, according to NYC & Co. and Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who jointly announced the 2006 forecast. 

“Tourism, which supports nearly 330,000 jobs in our city and which is so vital to New Yorkers who are just starting their climb up the economic ladder, has more than made up the ground we lost following 9/11,” Mr. Bloomberg said in a statement. 

Business travelers are increasingly attending trade shows and conventions held here. Attendance at the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center topped 2.25 million last year -- the second-highest annual total. 


©2005 Crain Communications Inc.


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## carfentanyl (May 14, 2003)

OtAkAw said:


> 700,000? Im not impressed. 5,000,000 people gathered in Luneta Park in Manila during the visit of Pope John Paul II for the World Youth Day in 1995.


5,000,000 people? I'm not impressed. In the Netherlands 5 people and a dog showed up when Pope John Paul II came to our country for a visit. Even the catholic people were not a fan of his conservative thoughts and stayed away. Since then he didn't really like our country that much.


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## polako (Apr 7, 2005)

carfentanyl said:


> 5,000,000 people? I'm not impressed. In the Netherlands 5 people and a dog showed up when Pope John Paul II came to our country for a visit. Even the catholic people were not a fan of his conservative thoughts and stayed away. Since then he didn't really like our country that much.


Yeah, that's because you guys are immoral flaming liberal dushbags.


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## edubejar (Mar 16, 2003)

Having grown up most of my life in a typical suburban U.S. city, I have to say that at first my experiences of crowded sidewalks was exciting when I would visit major East Coast and European cities. But now that I'm approaching 30, I find them more and more exhausting. My last visits to Paris and NYC, for instance, were as much tiring as fun, due to the stress that results from constantly fighting your way through crowds of people in major and popular streets...and in the case of Paris, small sidewalks in the smaller, older streets, that although charming and excitingly vibrant...tiring! I would say that as a younger thus more ample city, New York city has much less of this than European cities like London or Paris, but there are places like Times Sq and vicinity and around Penn Station that can be a stampede! 

I guess my point is that although I support lively and vibrant cities rather than boring hyper-suburbanazation, I'm for cities studying overcrowdedness wherever it occurs and seeing how it can be minimized...not by doing away with vibrant cities, but perhaps building other points of interest and function (in the case of NYC, maybe more train stations like London (8 or 9) and Paris (6 or 7) so that most people don't congragate exclusively in Penn Station or Central Station--why not an intercity station in Brooklyn, for instance?). Afterall, the overcrowdedness around Penn Station are the users (arrivees and departees) of the intercity trains, suburban trains and combination of subway lines...those are too many functions already, on top of too many destinations. For Amtrack destinations North, couldn't there be a "North Station" somewhere in Uptown Manhattan? For Amtrak destinations South, couldn't there be a "South Station," somewhere in Downtown, underground? For Amtrack destinations West, Penn Station could be it. Just a thought with plenty of suggestions open for modifications.

As for points of Interest, maybe Harlem can go through yet another Rennaissance and create something culturally irrisistable that can attract tourists all day long just like Times Square and the villages.


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## Rene Nunez (Mar 14, 2005)

polako said:


> Yeah, that's because you guys are immoral flaming liberal dushbags.


please tell me you were just joking with that comment. :rant: it was so immature or obviously said by an uneducated person or ass...or all of the above.I am embarrassed to be from the same city as you.


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## Grantus (Feb 10, 2005)

Some of the pedestrian traffic these places get is bs!


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## Mekky II (Oct 29, 2003)

If China lets more chineses visit the world, be prepared to see your cities completely overcrowned, not only few streets... :hahaha:


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## polako (Apr 7, 2005)

Rene Nunez said:


> please tell me you were just joking with that comment. :rant: it was so immature or obviously said by an uneducated person or ass...or all of the above.I am embarrassed to be from the same city as you.


Yeah, I was joking. I actually love "Holland", my college teacher is from there and she is super hot.


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## Mr Man (Sep 11, 2002)

NYC is not dense enough!!

If some people may find things too crowded at a certain time or place then that's great news for other retail areas of the city which should see an influx of people. In addition, some people will be on streets early morning or very late in order to escape the crowds... which will encourage businesses to remain open 24/7.


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## Rene Nunez (Mar 14, 2005)

polako said:


> Yeah, I was joking. I actually love "Holland", my college teacher is from there and she is super hot.


Oh ok i was really surprised too because many NewYorkers are comparable to the views of the Dutch people..Such as myself..which is prob why i got so mad..lol


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## meow (Mar 1, 2005)

I saw two places in Turkey where pedestrian traffic stops because of congestion 
Istanbul Taksim and The Bars Street in Bodrum (in the summer)


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