# Inner city



## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

The term inner city has many meanings. To most American and Canadian cities, the term refers to the poor decayed areas of the city centre. To some Europeans and Asians, it's the richest part of the city.

What does inner city mean to you and what areas or districts in your city do you consider this term?


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## Octoman (Nov 16, 2006)

Personally, when I think of the inner city I envisage the urban areas immediately surrounding the city centre. I think of this area as being in stark contrast to the wealthy centre - sink estates, crime etc although clearly this is a generalization. In London for instance these inner city areas have undergone huge regeneration in the last decade. Its just that the term was often used when referring to run down urban areas.

Starting from the city centre I would call the various strata of the city - City centre--inner city--inner suburbs--outer suburbs--suburbia. I guess after that comes the commuter belt.


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## ♣628.finst (Jul 29, 2005)

For Hong Kong--- Kowloon and Northern part of the Island are conisdered as the "inner city" of Hong Kong. The contrast in living standard is stark, often wealthy neighbourhoods are quite close to the inner city--- the difference is that wealthy neighbourhoods often have very tall residentials (typically 100-200m), and they blocked the view of the harbour. In Hong Kong, height is very valuable.

Some parts of the inner city are upper-class neighbourhoods. Their living cost is often high--- Typically very high rent, and expensive stores, if you happened to live in West Kowloon, Mid-Levels or Happy Valley, for example. These neighbourhoods are within 5 km from the city centre of Hong Kong. Crime is in general, not a significant problem in these upper-class neighbourhoods. However, there are many inner city neighbourhoods with significant social problem, e.g. Mong Kok, Tsim Sha Tsui (1-2 km from West Kowloon), North Point and Wan Chai (both are around 1-2 km from Happy Valley)

However, most suburbs (15-40 km from the city centre) in Hong Kong often have even worse crime rate and living standard in general. These suburbs are often categorised as "New Territories", a stark contrast to the more peaceful fringe of the city (5-40 km from the city centre, often much more isolated, some resemble American suburbs while some are quaint neighbourhoods along the coast) The fringe has high rent, around 30%-60% of upper-class neighbourhoods in the inner city. 

For example, in Saskatoon (East Side) a 2,000 sq.ft. house costs around CAN $150,000. 
============================================
in Stanley (Fringe, Upper-class), a 2,000 sq.ft. house typcially costs around CAN$ 2,000,000+
in West Kowloon/Mid-Levels (Inner City, Upper-class), a 1,500 sq.ft. flat costs around CAN$ 1,500,000-2,500,000, a 500 sq.ft. would cost around CAN$ 500,000- 1,000,000. 
in Wan Chai (Inner City, Lower-class/middle-class?), a 500 sq.ft. flat costs around CAN$ 400,000.
in New Territories (Lower-class suburb), a 500 sq.ft. flat costs around CAN$ 150,000.
while a 2000 sq.ft. detached house (Typically middle-class) costs around CAN$ 600,000-1,000,000.


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## staff (Oct 23, 2004)

The Scandinavian definition of inner city is the dense buildup (ie. multistory buildings with storefronts etc, comparable to what you in North America would consider a "downtown") in the center of the city.

I recently made this map (from flight photos) of Malmö's inner city:


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## Cristovão471 (May 9, 2006)

In Australia it's usually the upper market area and the richest, as in the proximity to the city rather than living 30km's away in suburbia.


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## FREKI (Sep 27, 2005)

In Copenhagen's case it's the area within the old defenses 
( basicly the oval area )


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## ilcapo (Jan 5, 2007)

Staff : why did you include the commie-block districts to the left and right of the stadium? but not rosengård etc.. what makes this area inner-city-like? 
just asking.


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## monkeyronin (May 18, 2006)

The term "inner city" may mean a poor urban area in North America, but for most (or at least, the larger) cities, the inner city is the wealthiest part, while the inner suburbs tend to have the bad neighbourhoods, with a few exceptions (like Harlem in Manhattan or Regent Park in Central Toronto).


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## SE9 (Apr 26, 2005)

*Inner London* includes the wealthiest and most deprived areas of the city. I would personally include Newham and Harringey as Inner London.

The word "Inner City" can suggest deprived (North Peckham etc.) but can also mean trendy (Kensington, Mayfair etc.)



*Population:* 2,985,700 (of 7,517,000)


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

Actually Inner Paris is the municipality of Paris
It has rich and poor places but the inner city has not the richest and the poorest place of Paris metro.  
Inner Paris = 2,150,000 inhabitants










__ Limit of inner Paris
limite de departement : departments border
Ceinture vert : green belt
Parc naturel regional : Regional natural reserve 
*Coeur d'agglomeration : core of urban area*
agglomeration central : the rest of urban area (real suburbs)
autres agglomerations : other urban areas (Include in metro area)
espace rural : rural area

Actually the core of urban area is the real size of Paris with 6,700,000 inhabitants.


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## zachus22 (Dec 4, 2006)

monkeyronin said:


> The term "inner city" may mean a poor urban area in North America, but for most (or at least, the larger) cities, the inner city is the wealthiest part, while the inner suburbs tend to have the bad neighbourhoods, with a few exceptions (like Harlem in Manhattan or Regent Park in Central Toronto).


A lot of Toronto's 'bad' suburban neighbourhoods aren't really that bad, they've just developed not-so-nice perceptions because of a couple unfortunate incidents. People automatically assume that parts of Scarborough, Brampton, and Mississauga are 'ghettos' because of their substantial black populations. It's not really the case.


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## 1LONDONER (Mar 26, 2006)

SE9 said:


> *Inner London* includes the wealthiest and most deprived areas of the city. I would personally include Newham and Harringey as Inner London.
> 
> The word "Inner City" can suggest deprived (North Peckham etc.) but can also mean trendy (Kensington, Mayfair etc.)
> 
> ...



I dont know why they have greenwich as inner london, its clearly not. Places like Eltham and Norwood.

Id pretty much agree with those boroughs though bar greenwich


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

In many european cities the term "inner city" refers to the part surrounded by the (former) fortifications shortly before the industrialisation. That doesn't mean that the wealthiest parts are included and in some cities the term is identic with "city centre". In case of Hamburg everything within the orange marked ringroad which follows the old fortifications is called "Innenstadt" (inner city, city centre).










The wealthiest parts are however outside this ring (around the lake north of it or far west in the suburbs along the Elbe river). Actually the population in the city centre is very low. Most of it is retail and offices.


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## staff (Oct 23, 2004)

Mr_D,
The area you're referring to is whar I would call downtown CPH actually. 

ilcapo,
Basically because it's still considered inner-city by most people. Rosengård is far from that (well, not locationwise).


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

staff said:


> Mr_D,
> *The area you're referring to is whar I would call downtown CPH actually. *
> 
> ilcapo,
> Basically because it's still considered inner-city by most people. Rosengård is far from that (well, not locationwise).


The part he's refering to is the part that in danish is called "indre by"...so that must be the inner city - i agree with Mr D on this one


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## FREKI (Sep 27, 2005)

staff said:


> Mr_D,
> The area you're referring to is whar I would call downtown CPH actually.


Hmm... so would I to a tourist, but for a CPH'er I think downtown would be more understood as the area south of Kongen's Nytorv down to Vesterbro Torv and without the amager part such as Christianshavn and Island's Brygge..


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## SE9 (Apr 26, 2005)

1LONDONER said:


> I dont know why they have greenwich as inner london, its clearly not. Places like Eltham and Norwood.
> 
> Id pretty much agree with those boroughs though bar greenwich


If your thinking about deprivation, Greenwich easily has some of the poorest wards in the UK.

In inner London, Greenwich is more deprived than Wandsworth and Lewisham (as well as the obvious ones). 

This ranking includes the richer areas like Greenwich and Blackheath, so you see how bad some areas like parts of Woolwich are.


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## sprtsluvr8 (Aug 5, 2006)

Inner city makes me think of the central downtown Atlanta's business/hotel/convention/government/entertainment district and Georgia State University. I don't know of any slums in the center of downtown, but there are a large number of homeless in and around the area. They're just tryinna get somethin t'eat...


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## staff (Oct 23, 2004)

Oelanddk,
Yeah, namewise it makes sense, but what about Österbro/Nörrebro, Vesterbro etc. etc. Suburbs?


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## FREKI (Sep 27, 2005)

staff said:


> Oelanddk,
> Yeah, namewise it makes sense, but what about Österbro/Nörrebro, Vesterbro etc. etc. Suburbs?


Nah, just different districts...

Copenhagen and Frederiksberg municipal is normaly known as "København" the areas/municipals outside all have their regional names such as the "Vestegn"


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

@DiggerD21, yes, the correct translation for Innenstadt into English would be downtown, not „Inner City“, although that is the direct translation. Inner city in many English speaking countries generally means downtown, plus the older, dense residential area’s surrounding it. If I was to get a train to the Innenstadt, I would expect it to take me to downtown. But someone saying they live in the Inner City, I would also imagine a much wider area.

In Australia, as mentioned, this generally has a positive inclination, as most inner city neighborhoods have been renovated and gentrified in the last couple of decades. People have realized that these inner city neighborhoods offer a better urban mix than the suburbs. Often close to work in downtown, great mix of restaurants etc. But I still remember when I was a child that these area’s were the poorest part of town. Full of decaying terraced houses and violent street thugs. This thankfully is a thing of the past and they are now the trendiest areas in any Australian city.

In Germany, it is much the same thing, but to be honest, I can’t think of the German word for what we call the Inner City suburbs. Like the Australian counterparts, they are the densest and most urban living areas in the city, with the best restaurants, trendiest neighborhoods etc. But unlike Australia, it is far more accessible to the average resident of the city. Essentially, more people live in these area’s than they do in Australian cities, with a much broader mix of working class to wealthy.

As shown above for London. This definition covers a bit wider area than would be devised in the Australian context. We would generally not consider all of Greenwich to be part of the innercity. But then again, there is no city in Australia as large as London.


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

staff said:


> Oelanddk,
> Yeah, namewise it makes sense, but what about Österbro/Nörrebro, Vesterbro etc. etc. Suburbs?


I would say that they make up the city together with Amager and Frederiksberg and "indre by" is the innter city...everything else are suburbs...but I don't know, I'm just a Jutlander


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

Justme said:


> In Germany, it is much the same thing, but to be honest, I can’t think of the German word for what we call the Inner City suburbs.


Neither can I. I think those areas are just called by their district name. Maybe there is a scientific term like "Innenstadtrandlage" or something like that, but obvioulsy nobody use it. However when someone in Hamburg says his flat is centrally located, it often means that is is within the U-Bahn-Ring or close to it. "Centrally" in terms of easily accessible by public transport.


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## MasonsInquiries (Jul 18, 2005)

Justme said:


> @DiggerD21, yes, the correct translation for Innenstadt into English would be downtown, not „Inner City“, although that is the direct translation. Inner city in many English speaking countries generally means downtown, plus the older, dense residential area’s surrounding it. If I was to get a train to the Innenstadt, I would expect it to take me to downtown. But someone saying they live in the Inner City, I would also imagine a much wider area.
> 
> In Australia, as mentioned, this generally has a positive inclination, as most inner city neighborhoods have been renovated and gentrified in the last couple of decades. People have realized that these inner city neighborhoods offer a better urban mix than the suburbs. Often close to work in downtown, great mix of restaurants etc. But I still remember when I was a child that these area’s were the poorest part of town. Full of decaying terraced houses and violent street thugs. This thankfully is a thing of the past and they are now the trendiest areas in any Australian city.
> 
> ...


like someone said earlier, it depends on where you're from. in the city, the "inner city" means the ghetto. in other meanings, it simply means downtown.


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## staff (Oct 23, 2004)

Oelanddk said:


> I would say that they make up the city together with Amager and Frederiksberg and "indre by" is the innter city...everything else are suburbs...but I don't know, I'm just a Jutlander


But still, just because the direct translation of "Indre By" is inner city, it doesn't necissarily mean just that, as JustMe pointed out.

Indre by = Downtown
Indre by + "Broerne" + Frederiksberg + Christianshavn etc. = Inner City.

Well, what do I know - I live on the other side of the planet.


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## bayviews (Mar 3, 2006)

WANCH said:


> The term inner city has many meanings. To most American and Canadian cities, the term refers to the poor decayed areas of the city centre. To some Europeans and Asians, it's the richest part of the city.


In the US, the “inner city” term gained popularity in the late 1960s as a coded euphemism for “ghetto”, usually a mostly low-income black neighborhood. 

However that term is used much less, as more & more of the largely African American & other minority residents of the ghettos have moved to the suburbs, not just the inner ‘burbs but also to the outer edges & the centers have become gentrified. Meanwhile, the suburbs & fringes have become the new gateways for many of the recent Latino, Caribbean, Asian, Middle Eastern & African immigrants. 

Really, only in a few "rustbelt" cities like Buffalo, Gary, and Milwaukee do ghettos remain a nearly exclusively a mostly inner city phenomenon. In that respect, US metros are becoming more like those in Europe, even as Europe’s metros are converging with the US model with respect to increased racial & ethnic diversity.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

WANCH said:


> The term inner city has many meanings. To most American and Canadian cities, the term refers to the poor decayed areas of the city centre. To some Europeans and Asians, it's the richest part of the city.
> 
> What does inner city mean to you and what areas or districts in your city do you consider this term?


"Inner city" has a very clear meaning in my hometown Vienna. Its the synonym for the 1st out of 23 districts. 

Its belonging as a whole to the UNESCO world heritage, hosts many headquarters of the leading Austrian banks and companies, is full of cultural and political institutions, tourist masses, and if you are able to pay for an apartment or even a penthouse there, I'd say you have brought it quite far in your life...









The inner city is pretty much the area encircled by the Ringroad + Danube canal.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Justme said:


> @DiggerD21, yes, the correct translation for Innenstadt into English would be downtown, not „Inner City“, although that is the direct translation. Inner city in many English speaking countries generally means downtown, plus the older, dense residential area’s surrounding it. If I was to get a train to the Innenstadt, I would expect it to take me to downtown. But someone saying they live in the Inner City, I would also imagine a much wider area.


Interesting. As I have wrote above in Vienna the exact term "Inner city" is the name of the 1st district. In German its "Innere Stadt". And its principally the city within the torn down city walls, plus the Ringstraße built there instead of the walls.

The "inncer city" is however only one of quite a few "inner districts".


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Deleted


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## urbane (Jan 4, 2005)

bayviews said:


> In the US, the “inner city” term gained popularity in the late 1960s as a coded euphemism for “ghetto”, usually a mostly low-income black neighborhood.
> 
> However that term is used much less, as more & more of the largely African American & other minority residents of the ghettos have moved to the suburbs, not just the inner ‘burbs but also to the outer edges & the centers have become gentrified. Meanwhile, the suburbs & fringes have become the new gateways for many of the recent Latino, Caribbean, Asian, Middle Eastern & African immigrants.
> 
> Really, only in a few "rustbelt" cities like Buffalo, Gary, and Milwaukee do ghettos remain a nearly exclusively a mostly inner city phenomenon. In that respect, US metros are becoming more like those in Europe, even as Europe’s metros are converging with the US model with respect to increased racial & ethnic diversity.


Exactly: when I think of the inner city in the American context I think of the mainly residential neighborhoods that surround downtown and that are often economically depressed. As you pointed out, however, many of these neighborhoods are gentrifying and it seems to me that the inner suburbs are becoming more and more the residential communities for low income households.

In Europe I think the term Inner City makes less sense. In Italy for example there is the city center (usually historic) and the periphery (usually constituted of either large residential buildings built in the 50s, 60s, 70s or of single family homes. The divide isn't necessarily marked, however, since there can be some overlap.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

Slartibartfas said:


> Interesting. As I have wrote above in Vienna the exact term "Inner city" is the name of the 1st district. In German its "Innere Stadt". And its principally the city within the torn down city walls, plus the Ringstraße built there instead of the walls.
> 
> The "inncer city" is however only one of quite a few "inner districts".


It does seem that the term "inner city" in Austria, like Germany refers more to what we would call "downtown" or the city center. As the term inner city in many English countries would also mean the surrounding inner residential districts.

Of interest, is there a great difference between innenstadt and stadtmitte? Is stadtmitte technically even more precise to the center of town that innenstadt (downtown) or are they about the same?


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## SE9 (Apr 26, 2005)

1LONDONER said:


> I dont know why they have greenwich as inner london, its clearly not. Places like Eltham and Norwood.
> 
> Id pretty much agree with those boroughs though bar greenwich


Geographically, Greenwich (the town) should be. In terms of depravity, Greenwich the borough should also be classed as Inner.

This is the top 20 most deprived boroughs in London. The Inner London boroughs are shaded red:

*Tower Hamlets* (4 out of 354)
*Hackney* (5 out of 354)
*Islington* (6 out of 354)
*Newham* (11 out of 354)
*Harringey* (13 out of 354)
*Southwark* (17 out of 354)
*Camden* (19 out of 354)
*Lambeth* (23 out of 354)
*Greenwich* (41 out of 354)
*Barking and Dagenham* (42 out of 354)

*Waltham Forest* (47 out of 354)
*Lewisham* (57 out of 354)
*Hammersmith & Fulham* (65 out of 354)
*Brent* (81 out of 354)
*Ealing* (99 out of 354)
*Hounslow* (102 out of 354)
*Enfield* (104 out of 354)
*Kensington & Chelsea* (116 out of 354)
*Wandsworth* (128 out of 354)
*Croydon* (140 out of 354)


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

Justme said:


> Of interest, is there a great difference between innenstadt and stadtmitte? Is stadtmitte technically even more precise to the center of town that innenstadt (downtown) or are they about the same?


I think in german language the terms Innenstadt, Stadtmitte, Zentrum, Centrum, Altstadt all refer to the historic city centre. Which term is actually used is just a regional fashion. In Hamburg the words Innenstadt and Centrum are pretty common.
The word-by-word translation of Innenstadt is Inner City. The meaning seems to be different though.
Another thing which can appear: People from the edge of a city (either a low density villa suburb or a high density commieblock suburb) may say "Ich fahre in die Stadt" (I drive into the city) when they actually go the districts around the city centre.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Justme said:


> It does seem that the term "inner city" in Austria, like Germany refers more to what we would call "downtown" or the city center. As the term inner city in many English countries would also mean the surrounding inner residential districts.
> 
> Of interest, is there a great difference between innenstadt and stadtmitte? Is stadtmitte technically even more precise to the center of town that innenstadt (downtown) or are they about the same?


I am no expert but I would say so. If someone is looking for the "Stadtmitte" I would explain him the way to the Stephans cathedral square. The very center of the center of Vienna. Its even highlighted in the subway as special station.

But I can not grant you that others use the word differently.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

Hartford is your typical American city on this respect, as the more poorer neighborhoods in the metro are in the central city. Hartford has some of the poorest zip codes in the New England region.

But as downtown is developing into more into a livable neighborhood, it has gotten more affluent. In 2000, before redevelopment took place, downtown had a average income double (or even triple) the amount in other poorer 
areas in Hartford. I think that the gap has widened incredibly since then.

Some "inner city" characteristics have gotten into the suburbs, but for the most part, it's truly a central city phenomenom here. In general, there are rings of poverty here, with a rich downtown, poor neighborhoods, and rich suburbs.


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