# BIRMINGHAM | Connaught Square | 28 fl | App



## ComPurch

morestoreysplease said:


> The best thing about the Highgate side to Digbeth is the elevation it climbs and views back to the city ridge. About 12 years ago a factory was knocked down on the corner of Cheapside and Moseley Road and I contacted Philip Singleton (then an advisor to BCC planning) about trying to attract investors to the site for an hotel with an infinity pool overlooking the city - he loved the idea. But to this day the site is still empty - seriously it is the best viewpoint in town. The grid streets are a blessing to us in Digbeth because they also deliver great layline views like down Bradford St...


My earlier-stated '34 years off Bradford Street' were spent in the Ravenhurst 'Social' Offices overlooking that Cheapside/Moseley Road site,msp.Speculation was rife when the factory was demolished and the adjacent petrol station closed.As I recall there were many problems with the underground diesel tanks associated with the latter,which may-to this day-explain the lack of serious redevelopment?
I have said previously on SC that the City roof-view from Ravenhurst is superb and I and former colleagues would have seen the above site grassed-over as a mini-park with far-superior views of the cityscape than nearby Highgate Park.Therefore you are correct in your 'best viewpoint' viewpoint .

As an aside I have found *one* reason to big-up this side of Digbeth High Street.Tolkien and his Mother would walk from their Moseley home to worship at St Annes RC Church off Bradford Street,prior to his later orphan-move to Duchess Road,Ladywood.
Hard-pressed to champion much else round that part of the parish...


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## ComPurch

^^
...apart from The (other) Two Towers.


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## Sandblast

Which ones are those CP?


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## ComPurch

The middle of your pic near-emulates the view Tolkien would have had outside Duchess Road looking toward Perrott's Folly and the Waterworks Tower,S.

Or I'm :nuts:

(probably the latter)


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## Sandblast

Oh!! See what you mean now!


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## SimonTheSoundMan

Work has officially started on site.


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## Sandblast

Great!!!!! Thanks STSM!


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## ReissOmari

lol haven't even had an app yet. And this is a car park, what work exactly, taking the yellow gates down? :lol:


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## 916646

Djay did say we get excited by the tiniest bit of movement :lol:


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## blar

November 2016 Meeting of DRA:cheers:



> *Tuesday 15 November 2016, 18:00-19:30* The Old Crown Restaurant, High Street Digbeth, B12 0LD
> 
> Digbeth Residents Association invite you to their next meeting, to be held at the Old Crown on Tuesday 15 November.
> 
> This meeting will feature a presentation on the *Connaught Square development, from K4 Architects and Seven Capital.*


http://digbeth.org/november-2016-meeting-of-dra/

http://digbeth.org/connaught-square-the-plans/


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## SimonTheSoundMan

Ok, maybe not. Just some other stuff happening on site.


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## RalphGuy

It seems a planning app went in last week 2016/08273/PA for erecting new buildings from five to eighteen storeys in order to provide 940 dwellings and 5839 sq m of commercial/ retail/ leisure/ community uses.

Sorry I can`t post a link.


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## CL81

^^ https://eplanning.birmingham.gov.uk.../Skins/Birmingham/Menus/PL.xml&DAURI=PLANNING


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## Bureau des etrangers

^^ Some very attractive looking elevations.


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## ReissOmari

187 documents? This is going to be a fun read! Glad to see the app has finally gone in!


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## Brum X

Looks really good, this is what Digbeth really needs :cheers:


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## ROYAL BLUE




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## djay

Looks decent. I am impressed with the range of apartments... 3 bed is the max i saw. No studios either which is great to see. 

Some of the elevations make me wonder tbh. There are some blank elevations which i assume are service. Public realm looks good too.


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## 882774

Reminds me of the buildings that have gone up in South Side and I think they're ace.


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## Bureau des etrangers

From that Aerial render, it looks as though the only low rise part of this is the Irish Centre itself. Shame this couldn't have been given part of one of the new builds. Or is the Irish centre due a facelift any time soon?


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## BhamBadger

Cycle Lanes?


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## DBadger

Would be a good idea. And they could put a fence in for protection, because it's not legally prevented from doing so like a canal towpath.


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## ComPurch

As Seventies urchins we used to walk that route regularly.You achieved most kudos if you could spot a sewer rat while negotiating the green sewer pipe slime emanating from same.
Appy daze.


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## Telfordboy

Something like this could be done to the river maybe...










It keeps the walls but softens the river itself :dunno:


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## Billsmothers

nigeman said:


> ^^
> I'm sure it could be opened up more whilst still ensuring a raise in the water level is catered for, no doubt the cost element will have a bearing on any serious attempt to do this though.


Back in the 1970s they did build the raised walkway alongside it where it first goes into a culvert at Cannon Hill Park. I think at the time there was some idea it might be extended towards the city centre, but it just ends abruptly where it goes under the road by the cricket ground.

We are soon meant to be seeing a masterplan for future redevelopment alongside the river through Highgate, so this would be the time to consider opening up the river, with a possible new walkway/cycle route funded by new housing development.


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## morestoreysplease

In Los Angeles they have opened up a cycle path following the LA River from the San Fernando Valley all the way down to Long Beach which is a perfectly sun-washed concrete culvert slightly similar to this - well 1% similar lol! I cycled a few miles along the SF Valley part of it and it's a great idea.


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## Erebus555

I don't come on here very often any more so it's always nice to see big movements being made. And this is one hell of a big movement. I've had a keen interest in this site since the first planning app which was ambitious and truly original.

So looking at this new proposal, I can't argue with the ambition but the design quality is truly a let down. Where the original proposal excelled, this proposal falls down in diversity in the design. Simply changing the brick colour from building to building does not reflect the visual interest you get from the rest of Digbeth. The area is rich with inspiration to bring into the design. It's a formerly industrial area dominated by small to medium sized workshops - large warehouses are few and far between. Yet the warehouse seems to be a precedent here.

Window shapes and sizes are repetitive across the whole scheme. There are opportunities to really play around, especially in the central corridor overlooking the river, with materials and textures and create a visually exciting area. The sheer scale of the building can be visually broken down to reflect the urban fabric of Digbeth.

The corner of Stone Yard and the High Street is really disappointing. Huge curved corners are not a feature in Digbeth bar the coach station (and in that case it's used as a focal point). I would really like to see that reconsidered, especially as it will form part of a key view down towards the city centre.

The application highlights the Tall Buildings document. This tower is not distinctive enough to satisfy the policy, in my opinion. It's a building you can see going up anywhere in this country and will only act as a placemarker due to the fact it'll be the tallest thing in the area.

The landscaping strategy is well thought-out but for much of the day it is going to be overshadowed - this will negatively impact it. As such, the scheme is going to be heavily reliant on the retail to create a sense of place when you're in the main corridor. This is not going to be enough.

I hope the retail strategy is genuinely well-considered. The reliance on generic chain stores in these sorts of developments is unsustainable, uninspiring and unhelpful in creating truly distinctive areas. Look at Wapping Wharf in Bristol for how new large scale mixed-use developments can incorporate independent local retailers to achieve this.

High density residential development is what we need in cities now. But we need places for communities to live rather than just people and fear this development leans too much towards the latter. This isn't me saying "back to the drawing board", it's more of a "don't be so safe".


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## morestoreysplease

If the ground floors can't all be filled with retail I'd like a series of galleries where the street artists who make Digbeth such a vibrant arty area, can showcase their work on canvases or even the internal walls. I can see this area being a Zellig #2.


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## Bureau des etrangers

Is Connaught Square design a bridge too far?

Architect Joe Holyoak welcomes plans to bring the River Rea in Digbeth back to life in new development but questions the design proposals.


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## morestoreysplease

Over to Billsmothers...lol.

I think there's nothing wrong with any of it - bring it all on tout suite!


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## djay

I think he has a point. That being the river could be used better. i suspect though that the reason it is not, is the very reason why Joe is suggesting it should be incorporated more... becasue it looks sh*t and they don't want to apply or spend money to change it.

There needs to be some sort of central plan to improve the river culvert by the EA.


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## Billsmothers

morestoreysplease said:


> Over to Billsmothers...lol.


??????


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## Brummyboy92

Its a difficult one really, because whilst the river looks rubbish there, Ive seen it at bursting point after heavy rain (which is temporary of course), therefore would look much better when its full. But I doubt there is an alternative to safely raise the water level without causing flooding during heavy rain.


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## Brum Boy

Some good points raised in the Birmingham Post article.

The developer here is trying their best to make a feature out of the river but is in a difficult position as they know how dangerous the river can be after heavy rain. The proposed safety measures are necessary but hinder interaction as you will only be able to view the river through a glass screen.

The council and EA work need to work on strategy for this section of the river to create better interaction and support future planned developments along the river banks.

I would propose keeping the water level as existing but digging down to create a canal channel in the section of river passing through Digbeth. Water would be allowed to flow in and out at both ends at the existing height of the current river.

I’m not a specialist on river management but would expect my proposal to create a beautiful body of water to look at all year round, reduce flow in the canal section during heavy rain making it safer and supporting future developments to allow them to offer better interaction, keep flooding risk at an existing level in the canal section and up and down stream.

As I say I’m not a river management specialist and happy to be proved my proposal would not work.


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## BhamBadger

His proposal of rtemoving the curvature isn't the best, because then at best you'll create a bottleneck when it reconstricts at the end of the flat section, and at worse, it would just be a tiny trickle barely an inch deep when such a small amount of water spread over such a large flat area.

I do agree with him here, that there are too many bridges and all of them too large. Using space over the river to create a public square is folly, when the entire bank could be your public square. There are some very odd choices at work here.

Overall I like the plans, they're good, the buildings are nice, the river being used is great. But covering most of it up, and leaving the rest to look like a swerer is an odd choice.


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## Bugbyte

Not convinced at all I'm afraid. The culvert if it has a trickle going through it as in the render will get full of litter and the bridges just make the river look inconsequential. It reminds me of the river Dove in Ashbourne which is buried just past the medieval bridge near Waitrose. A complete lost opportunity. Sorry can't find a picture. The fact that there is a medieval bridge in Ashbourne and there is not a single picture of it on the internet speaks volumes. Here is a Google clicky. Spot the bridge, and spot the river!

I am not an engineer, but surely you could build a massive overflow pipe just under the pavements on the bank and put contractible wears in to raise the water level to at least fill the culvert? 

As for the buildings, aren't they all the same but just different colour bricks? Back to the bridges, what would entice people onto them? they don't look like they are on any through routes so I cannot see how they would attract people as in the render. This could be a perfect spot for a small market like the ones you wander across in Europe, but the layout is not right for this.


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## djay

Brum Boy said:


> Some good points raised in the Birmingham Post article.
> 
> The developer here is trying their best to make a feature out of the river but is in a difficult position as they know how dangerous the river can be after heavy rain. The proposed safety measures are necessary but hinder interaction as you will only be able to view the river through a glass screen...
> 
> I would propose keeping the water level as existing but digging down to create a canal channel in the section of river passing through Digbeth. Water would be allowed to flow in and out at both ends at the existing height of the current river.
> 
> I’m not a specialist on river management but would expect my proposal to create a beautiful body of water to look at all year round, reduce flow in the canal section during heavy rain making it safer and supporting future developments to allow them to offer better interaction, keep flooding risk at an existing level in the canal section and up and down stream.
> 
> As I say I’m not a river management specialist and happy to be proved my proposal would not work.


The glass screen is for safety but there are other ways this can be treated. Whilst a barrier is needed due to the height, its treatment does not need to be glass. I think this is more what Joe is saying.

Also what would happen with a large rain fall event in your idea? Where would the water go if you canal is full? There is no permeable floodplain in the city for this water to go to so you'd then increase flood risk to more place or have a dry canal when the flow is low.



Bugbyte said:


> I am not an engineer, but surely you could build a massive overflow pipe just under the pavements on the bank and put contractible wears in to raise the water level to at least fill the culvert


But where is the water coming from to fill the culvert? When there is a flood event, where does that water then go? Surely it creates more of a flood risk as the canal bottlenecks the river flow.


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## Biosonic

Good comments from Joe and he makes a very good point about covering the river over too much. The glass barriers will be vandalised and they don't need to be so high only 1.1m


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## Brum Boy

For me the issue with the River Rea in Birmingham centre is safety. When there is heavy rainfall the torrent is such that anything in its path is taken away. The risk of people drowning is high in its current form and that’s why I say that the EA and council need a plan to support future developments along its banks.

The end goal must be to make the river accessible, remove barriers opening it right up to allow people enjoy it from close proximity by being able to walk and cycle next to it.

Get this right and future developments will not propose building on top of it, hiding it under bridges and adding barriers so you can’t get close.

I still think creating a canal section within its current footprint would solve many issues. Water flow from the existing river into the canal would flow unhindered. The volume of water flowing out of the canal section and back into the river would be the same as existing so there would be no additional flood risk. No new flood plains would be required.


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## citywatcher01

I agree with what the article says. And frankly why try to hide it. Its part of the city's industrial heritage. Im sure it could be be 'opened up' as a feature with floating walkways etc whist maintaining its current form and function


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## djay

Brum Boy said:


> For me the issue with the River Rea in Birmingham centre is safety. When there is heavy rainfall the torrent is such that anything in its path is taken away. The risk of people drowning is high in its current form and that’s why I say that the EA and council need a plan to support future developments along its banks.


With all due respect, the river Thames is a pretty strong river where you are in danger of drowning all the time if you are not a strong swimmer. Yet its accessible and low barriers in many places. Whilst the height is an issue, it is no taller than the bridge from the ICC to Brindley Place.



Brum Boy said:


> I still think creating a canal section within its current footprint would solve many issues. Water flow from the existing river into the canal would flow unhindered. The volume of water flowing out of the canal section and back into the river would be the same as existing so there would be no additional flood risk. No new flood plains would be required.


If more rain falls during the flood event, the canal will flood and not just the river below. You wouldn't have situation where the river below could take the additional water whilst the canal stays at one level.


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## Erebus555

Whilst there's no harm in showing off the river here, I don't think there's all that much benefit either. The points Joe makes are valid, especially about the 'balustrades' (I'm sorry but how are glass walls a good idea anywhere?), but I think any changes to the design in relation to river only need be minor. Affecting the flow and shape at what is a relatively short stretch is unnecessary.

I see the land north of where the river flows beneath the aqueduct by Fazeley Street as a much better opportunity for showcasing the river with some decent spacious landscaping.

All the developers at Connaught need to do is to not ignore the river and try to make sure it doesn't look like an open sewer. It's not enough of visual asset to change the nature of an area to re-incorporate.


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## Brum Boy

citywatcher01 said:


> I agree with what the article says. And frankly why try to hide it. Its part of the city's industrial heritage. Im sure it could be be 'opened up' as a feature with floating walkways etc whist maintaining its current form and function


 I don’t think a floating walkway would work due to the safety issues I mentioned earlier.


What would work would be a fixed bridge structure something like Millennium Walkway in the Peak District. Ours would be an urban version and beautiful in its own right.


https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attra...ium_Walkway-New_Mills_Derbyshire_England.html


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## Brummyboy92

Beautiful is a strong word, but yes I think something like that would work best.


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## BhamBadger

While that's a good idea it won't work here.

What they're doing is creating a new high street corridor with retail units.

This requires them to claim land from above the river, while simultaneously opening up the river. To do this they need their thick bridges and squares, or else you'd have two very narrow paths and few crossings. Thus, very inefficient.


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## Kingsheathen

The millennium walkways could be running along both sides of the culvert, at a lower level than the paved areas. They would be about a meter above the culvert level and two meters below the bridges. (There may not be room for this). People would be able to walk on the millennium walkways under the bridges. The walkways could go the entire length of the river through digbeth. Access to them would be provided at suitable locations. They would provide a new pedestrian route through digbeth.


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## citywatcher01

Brum Boy said:


> I don’t think a floating walkway would work due to the safety issues I mentioned earlier.
> 
> 
> What would work would be a fixed bridge structure something like Millennium Walkway in the Peak District. Ours would be an urban version and beautiful in its own right.
> 
> 
> https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attra...ium_Walkway-New_Mills_Derbyshire_England.html


Poor choice of words, I meant floating in the sense of being in the air above the culvert, not literally floating on the water


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## Erebus555

I don't really see the point of a walkway along the Rea - it would serve no practical purpose (Rea Street runs parallel for much of the length) and the river isn't substantial enough to be an attraction of sorts.

Opening it up at sections such as here and Warwick Bar makes more sense to me. For the rest of it, it could just be re-mediated as a corridor for wildlife and wildlife only.


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## nigeman

BhamBadger said:


> While that's a good idea it won't work here.
> 
> What they're doing is creating a new high street corridor with retail units.
> 
> This requires them to claim land from above the river, while simultaneously opening up the river. To do this they need their thick bridges and squares, or else you'd have two very narrow paths and few crossings. Thus, very inefficient.


^^
I agree BB, though we'd all love a "river front" the Rea is not a large river (except in flood) and that as been partially created through it being pushed underground or culverted right through the city centre.
You can't just open up this section as a fully accessible river frontage because of what the river goes through to get to this point.... blame the victorians for that...but what is good is the river, for all we see of it, will be visible and will be tidied up through this development.

In "la la land" the river runs through here and into Smithfield where, following a major rethink from BCC, a giant lake is proposed with a Geneva style fountain in the middle, and the River Rea sees the real light of day.:lol:


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## ComPurch

nigeman said:


> In "la la land" the river runs through here and into Smithfield where, following a major rethink from BCC, a giant lake is proposed with a Geneva style fountain in the middle, and the River Rea sees the real light of day.:lol:


Wouldn't the lake clash with the Infinte Rooftop Pool atop the 'New York Style' Forum Apartments? :lol:


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## ellbrown

The current view of Connaught Square from Rea Street. Seen from the no 3 bus.


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## Nessyjord

One potential example of how the Rea could remain in its current channel and also interact with the street scape/ development?










This is the Aarhus river in Aarhus, Denmark.


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## Erebus555

Difference there is that the river is relatively close to street level unlike the Rea. I don't know about the Aarhus but the Rea's level changes quite substantially too. They'll also not want to be able to give people the opportunity to go for a stroll along the subterranean stretches of the Rea when the river level is low.


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## Billsmothers

Some parts of Aarhus look very attractive, but that view isn't, particularly, is it?

The moral I take from that is, let's make sure we get plenty of trees into our new developments. There are worrying signs that we are going to miss this opportunity.


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## Nessyjord

Erebus555 said:


> Difference there is that the river is relatively close to street level unlike the Rea. I don't know about the Aarhus but the Rea's level changes quite substantially too. They'll also not want to be able to give people the opportunity to go for a stroll along the subterranean stretches of the Rea when the river level is low.


There's can be a fair tidal range at this spot along the coast, up to 1.5m earlier this Winter. What I like about this arrangement is that it's okay for the river to flood, ie. no damage caused. The concrete steps/ seating is a shared space for the river and public alike.


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## Sandblast

That looks like it could be perfect for this project in Birmingham, Nessyjord, thank you for showing this to us. Was that 'river street' in Aarhus completed in one construction phase, or is it an 'organic' development completed over a number of years? I can't work out if the buildings are 1970's, 80's or 90's designs.


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## SimonTheSoundMan

Erebus555 said:


> Difference there is that the river is relatively close to street level unlike the Rea. I don't know about the Aarhus but the Rea's level changes quite substantially too. They'll also not want to be able to give people the opportunity to go for a stroll along the subterranean stretches of the Rea when the river level is low.


I was working on Conaught Square site a couple of weeks ago. One day it was a good 4 to 5 feet deep, the next day it was like someone was having a pee up river.


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## Bugbyte

Any reason why we can't have a wear system to raise the water level to make the river more attractive that retracts in the hours before a serge is expected thus increasing the water capacity when needed? We could also have steps down to the river all along in a 'V' shape for people to sit next to (if the river doesn't stink!) which would also act as flood prevention. Or we could just bury it and have a fake river.


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## Sandblast

Weir?


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## morestoreysplease

Sunderland has a Wear


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## Bureau des etrangers

Holy shi.... 

get it built.


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## Brum X

Tower looks nice


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## BhamBadger

I like the Cheeky Beorma tower inclusion on the final picture.

I liked the original design. This is, however, better, though I hope there is still a priority on its usability to the public and the inclusion of retail and leisure on the ground floors.


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## daniboy173

Gutted - much preferred the original. This looks bland to me. Hope more detailed renders prove me wrong soon...


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## BlackCountryAl

Wow!


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## BhamBadger

BlackCountryAl said:


> Wow!


High Praise from BCA to be honest. :lol:


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## djay

Lol this went from different and distinctive to identikit residential.


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## RalphGuy

They`ve reduced the number of homes from 940 to 724 and they`ve reduced the commercial element from 65,000 sq ft to nearly 38,000 sq ft.


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## daniboy173

This is one of the worst amendments in history. Wtf are they doing?


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## djay

daniboy173 said:


> This is one of the worst amendments in history. Wtf are they doing?


Calm down. It's not that bad. It's just normal.


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## ellbrown

The JFK mural could do with repairs after years of graffiti and fly posters on the new version of it. What will happen to the Custard Factory side of the High Street, what's now Zellig car park.


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## djay

ellbrown said:


> The JFK mural could do with repairs after years of graffiti and fly posters on the new version of it. What will happen to the Custard Factory side of the High Street, *what's now Zellig car park.*


Answered your own question no?


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## ellbrown

There was an old public toilets hidden behind the JFK memorial. Blue and white tiles.

Thought someone​ ages ago said a Tesco Express would be built there?


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## joshwebb

How tall will it be now? About 65m?


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## Brum Boy

Glad to see that they have opened the river right up. This part is a big improvement.


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## 882774

This is just wow, a game changer for Birmingham. And what is needed to finally up Digbeth's game and turn in into a true destination/suburb. Just hope hope hope they keep the best of the industrial architecture and noise abatements don't start going in. Though the main music venues are on the opposite side of the road.

I love the design, the openness of it at street level, the shop fronts or whatever they will be, which will hopefully bring up the lovely old buildings on the opposite side and many will no doubt sell up, I know Manzils are waiting on this.

The White Swan will probably sell up too at some point. It's a shame in some ways as these businesses have survived so many years by a thread, same owners, Manzil since the 60s and Swan prob the same, but Digbeth needs this. Birmingham needs it and hopefully, if done well the success will spread. 

The prospect of being able to catch a tram from Digbeth to Jewellery Quarter via town is very exciting.
:cheers:


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## Brummyboy92

I do prefer the original concept, but this is not bad by any stretch. And as Tony Bear has said, Digbeth needs this, this will be a complete game changer for the area. And Digbeth will finally be able to thrive.


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## Bureau des etrangers

I'd love to see a render with both Connaught Square and that hanging gardens proposal we saw recently.


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## BhamBadger

So many businesses in Digbeth suffered because of how unpleasant the walk is from the Bullring.

This development and the metro will radically expand the usable city centre and hopefully revitalise businesses and public realm.

This is kind of a proof for public spending unlocking business potential. Would we have seen opportunities like this without the metro route?


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## LocalVernacular

On the face of it, this looks like an improvement to me. It's more open than the original proposal and extends Green Street/Stone Yard right through to the Coach Station. In addition, it looks like the buildings will have more personality, especially the tower which now has a rooftop detail. The commercial space looks like it's changed from double height to single storey, which I think is sensible in this location.

I'd still like to see a street of some kind between the tower and the adjacent building to make the scheme more permeable when approaching from the Bull Ring.


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## daniboy173

Ok so the one question that isn't being answered is 'why'? Fair enough I prefer the original designs, but I suppose that is subjective opinion, but the facts are as has been stated, less apartments and less commercial sq.ft space? Why would you do that? This is what confuses me...


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## RalphGuy

In terms of square footage, the original plans had just over 532,000 sq ft (940 apartments) and the new plans have nearly 442,000 sq ft (724 apartments) so a loss of approximately 90,000 sq ft of residential space.

As for the commercial aspect of the development, the original plans had around 65,000 sq ft whereas the new plans have around 38,000 sq ft. This amounts to a loss of approximately 27,000 sq ft of commercial space.

Why would they reduce the amount of saleable space by nearly 120,000 sq ft? Very odd but they must have their reasons.


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## Bugbyte

There may be less apartments, but they are a little bigger. I suspect the extra space has gone into the new square. I really like this, esp. the new square around the river. It looks like ampitheatre seating down to the river with greenery. This is so much better than the boarded over 'street' in the original plan. Nearly all of the ground floor of this development is commercial space, so there isn't a lot of scope for blank walls with plant behind it or car park grills (I think there may be a run of grills nr stone yard? but that's about it) which really kills an area. I also like the reduction in height towards the Swan. The renders do not show the quality of the buildings, but a similar, plain brick style like the proposed building behind the JFK mural will look quality. That way, the river and square become the statements and the buildings the backdrop, not the other way around. 

Are the plans for Deritend real? i.e. the tram stop and reduction to what looks like one lane of traffic? I forget, has it been decided the tram will go down here?

EDIT: Yep. It is planned to go down the high st after Curzon St. Don't know if the route past Curzon street is financed yet though.


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## ReissOmari

I know this is all residential, but it would have been nice to see a hotel in one of the buildings.


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## RalphGuy

ReissOmari said:


> I know this is all residential, but it would have been nice to see a hotel in one of the buildings.




It`s not all residential Reiss. There`s some commercial.


Bugbyte, they`ve still dropped the residential square footage by nearly 20%.


Either way, I`m looking forward to a start on site.


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## Billsmothers

Bugbyte said:


> Are the plans for Deritend real? i.e. the tram stop and reduction to what looks like one lane of traffic? I forget, has it been decided the tram will go down here?
> 
> EDIT: Yep. It is planned to go down the high st after Curzon St. Don't know if the route past Curzon street is financed yet though.



Can't say much about this but I'm told that an independent proposal, showing how the environment of the High Street might be transformed around the Metro extension, was put to planners recently. 

Apparently it was well received as being in tune with their thinking, and may possibly have some influence on the final design. If so, it could result in something a little more ambitious than is indicated here. 

The Eastside extension as far as the Custard Factory is fully funded at £137m.


----------



## Sandblast

Ultimately, where will this tram route head out to. It won't be much use to anyone terminating in the Digbeth area!


----------



## Silhillian

Sandblast said:


> Ultimately, where will this tram route head out to. It won't be much use to anyone terminating in the Digbeth area!




Isn't this the one that eventually goes to BHX?


----------



## Sandblast

That's what I'd imagine, but with the HS2 line up and running in less than 9 years, you'd have thought that there would be preliminary plans / suggested routes available to view?


----------



## ReissOmari

Sandblast said:


> Ultimately, where will this tram route head out to. It won't be much use to anyone terminating in the Digbeth area!


Imagine how many residential developments are proposed for Digbeth/Bradford Street.. Many of these don't have parking, the tram is perfect for the area me thinks! 

Then you've also got to think about the folks on route to the Airport, with HS2 and Heavy Rail I don't think anyone will use the tram out to the Airport NEC, but will be good links for everything in the way.


----------



## Billsmothers

Sandblast said:


> Ultimately, where will this tram route head out to. It won't be much use to anyone terminating in the Digbeth area!


Funnily enough, I think it will be very useful even when it only goes to Digbeth, which it will really "plug-in" to the rest of the city centre (imagine being able to hop on a tram here to go to Edgbaston or the Jewellery Quarter). It's a pity phase 1 was cutback from the originally proposed terminus at the junction of Adderley Street and the ring road, next to a multistorey Park and Ride facility.

The long term plan is to extend it via Bordesley Green, Heartlands Hospital, Chelmsley Wood and Birmingham Business Park to the airport, NEC and HS2 interchange. The rationale for it is that it goes through the deprived regeneration areas of East Birmingham and North Solihull, linking them to employment opportunities in the city centre and UK Central. It's a high priority in the package of connectivity projects linked to HS2, so it's scheduled to be open by 2026.

It's still at an early design stage, though maps have appeared here and there indicating the route, which is pretty much what you would expect given the corridor outlined above.

It is going to cost £735m, of which £183m has so far been identified (that might get you from Digbeth High Street to the Blues ground, maybe).

Basic details about all the Metro extensions are on the Midland Metro Alliance website. Information about all Transport for West Midlands capital projects planned for the next ten years, currently open for public consultation, are here: https://www.tfwm.org.uk/events/draft...-for-transport


----------



## ellbrown

Is already roadworks in Digbeth outside the Connaught Square site. Utility diversions for the Midland Metro.


----------



## ReissOmari

They're actually replacing the traffic lights to LEDs at the junction of Rea Street


----------



## Sandblast

ReissOmari said:


> Imagine how many residential developments are proposed for Digbeth/Bradford Street.. Many of these don't have parking, the tram is perfect for the area me thinks!
> 
> Then you've also got to think about the folks on route to the Airport, with HS2 and Heavy Rail I don't think anyone will use the tram out to the Airport NEC, but will be good links for everything in the way.



By the time the tram has wend it's way round to Exchange Square, on to Curzon Street, across to Digbeth High Street, I could have walked from House of Fraser and back twice!!!!!

It is not a useful distance ..... it is not a useful direct link to Digbeth.


----------



## DBadger

From House of Fraser, yes. But the tram doesn't just go as far as HoF.


----------



## Fidget808

Sandblast said:


> By the time the tram has wend it's way round to Exchange Square, on to Curzon Street, across to Digbeth High Street, I could have walked from House of Fraser and back twice!!!!!
> 
> It is not a useful distance ..... it is not a useful direct link to Digbeth.


It's useful for people who are less mobile than you.


----------



## Billsmothers

Sandblast said:


> By the time the tram has wend it's way round to Exchange Square, on to Curzon Street, across to Digbeth High Street, I could have walked from House of Fraser and back twice!!!!!
> 
> It is not a useful distance ..... it is not a useful direct link to Digbeth.


I think you may be underestimating how quickly the tram will cover that route.


----------



## Hugh90

I think this route will be quite useful, but even if it's not at least it's a start. We need to have some sort of public transport other than the sparse rail network we have. And the sooner we get something progressing the better. Being so reliant on cars can't be good for business in the city.


----------



## Billsmothers

Hugh90 said:


> I think this route will be quite useful, but even if it's not at least it's a start. We need to have some sort of public transport other than the sparse rail network we have. And the sooner we get something progressing the better. Being so reliant on cars can't be good for business in the city.


I wouldn't describe the local rail network as "sparse" - I think it covers the region quite well.

The number of passengers has more than doubled since the turn of the century, from 22.8m journeys a year in 2000/01 to 53.7m in 2015/16. Peak-time journeys by rail into central Birmingham overtook buses in 2011 and now stand at 36 per cent - almost level-pegging with cars. That's an astonishing turnaround considering that this city was rebuilt for the benefit of cars after the Second World War - and it would hardly be possible on a "sparse" network.

What's more, the rail network has further potential to be developed. We still have the CrossCity extension to Bromsgrove to come, the Camp Hill chords will deliver new stations at Hazelwell, Moseley and Kings Heath (and, hopefully, Balsall Heath), The Fort and Castle Vale. I was amazed a couple of years ago to see a map of proposed rail developments across the West Midlands which included more than 20 new stations.

Then there is the potential for passenger services on the Sutton Park line, plus increased frequencies of local services on the congested Coventry-New Street-Wolverhampton corridor once HS2 frees up capacity.

Having said all of that, you are quite right about the importance of developing as extensive a Metro network as possible. I've always said that if you took an international sample of cities with excellent transport systems you would notice that they share certain characteristics: they run on rails, are powered by electricity, are high-frequency with good interchange, information and ticketing systems. 

Whether these systems are trains, trams, tram-trains or very light rail is less important. Yes, for the time being we have to put up with diesel trains on the Snow Hill lines, but their cross-platform interchange with Metro at Jewellery Quarter and The Hawthorns (not yet quite so good at Snow Hill, unfortunately) is a model for how we should be looking to weave the two modes together in future developments.

Buses (which I'm amused to notice you don't mention), will always have an important role, but for the reasons outlined above I think the West Midlands needs to maximise the use of rail, both heavy and light. 

As I've mentioned more than once before, a few years ago it seemed Birmingham was putting all its eggs in the bendy-bus plus bus lanes (alias Sprint) basket, with the Metro left out in the cold, but the city centre extension seems to have changed perceptions radically. If there is one thing that I find more exciting than the many new individual projects currently underway or planned for the city centre, it's the way the Metro will link them all together.


----------



## BhamBadger

As a brief extension to Billsmothers,

In a couple of years Wolverhampton will have be Exemplar in tying in all three of our major transport methods, in addition to long distance coaches all departing from one well integrated interchange quarter.

Further metro extensions will serve well in penetrating areas where heavy rail can't, and busses aren't sufficient in capacity.


----------



## Bugbyte

If I remember correctly this extension will tie in Digbeth Coach Station. One thing we are bad at IMO is Park and Ride. I inevitably use them in other cities where they are signposted on the way in and find them cheaper and easier than looking for a car park. I often notice that they also do season tickets for commuters which is a very good idea. I can't really think of any park and rides in Birmingham that are signposted off the main routes in apart from the M5 Metro stops, so it is a pity that there is no P&R at Alderly as originally planned.


----------



## DBadger

West Brom is signposted from the M5 as a park and ride but it is not obvious that they mean it for Birmingham.


----------



## Billsmothers

Bugbyte said:


> One thing we are bad at IMO is Park and Ride. I inevitably use them in other cities where they are signposted on the way in and find them cheaper and easier than looking for a car park.


I think the Nottingham system is outstanding in this respect. If you are travelling there from Birmingham now you can take the M42/A42 and the newly widened A423 to Clifton Park-and-Ride, which is in a field before you hit any suburbs. There is another Park-and-Ride site further north on the M1.

If the Metro was extended along the Hagley Road you could have a similar facility linked to the M5 at Quinton. Nottingham has the advantage of being a smaller city so the journey time is not too prohibitive, although having said that I'm not sure there's a huge difference between Clifton-city centre and Quinton-city centre.

The Adderley Street MSP is a different case as it's so far in, but it means cars can be kept at the perimeter of the city centre and there is a parking issue in Digbeth quite apart from the connection to the Metro. 

the only Park-and-Ride site I've ever used on the Metro is Wednesbury Parkway, which I've found quite useful for accessing Wolverhampton in the early evening peak.


----------



## BhamBadger

I always found Priestfield useful.
It's becoming particularly important as Wolverhampton has a prdestrianisation drive.


----------



## BhamJim

Shirley (M40/M42) junction near Blythe Valley would be a great place for a park and ride. It could not only be a link to city centre and stop people using the M6 - Spaghetti route into town, but also provide a link to BHX.


----------



## Hugh90

Billsmothers said:


> I wouldn't describe the local rail network as "sparse" - I think it covers the region quite well.
> 
> 
> 
> The number of passengers has more than doubled since the turn of the century, from 22.8m journeys a year in 2000/01 to 53.7m in 2015/16. Peak-time journeys by rail into central Birmingham overtook buses in 2011 and now stand at 36 per cent - almost level-pegging with cars. That's an astonishing turnaround considering that this city was rebuilt for the benefit of cars after the Second World War - and it would hardly be possible on a "sparse" network.
> 
> 
> 
> What's more, the rail network has further potential to be developed. We still have the CrossCity extension to Bromsgrove to come, the Camp Hill chords will deliver new stations at Hazelwell, Moseley and Kings Heath (and, hopefully, Balsall Heath), The Fort and Castle Vale. I was amazed a couple of years ago to see a map of proposed rail developments across the West Midlands which included more than 20 new stations.
> 
> 
> 
> Then there is the potential for passenger services on the Sutton Park line, plus increased frequencies of local services on the congested Coventry-New Street-Wolverhampton corridor once HS2 frees up capacity.
> 
> 
> 
> Having said all of that, you are quite right about the importance of developing as extensive a Metro network as possible. I've always said that if you took an international sample of cities with excellent transport systems you would notice that they share certain characteristics: they run on rails, are powered by electricity, are high-frequency with good interchange, information and ticketing systems.
> 
> 
> 
> Whether these systems are trains, trams, tram-trains or very light rail is less important. Yes, for the time being we have to put up with diesel trains on the Snow Hill lines, but their cross-platform interchange with Metro at Jewellery Quarter and The Hawthorns (not yet quite so good at Snow Hill, unfortunately) is a model for how we should be looking to weave the two modes together in future developments.
> 
> 
> 
> Buses (which I'm amused to notice you don't mention), will always have an important role, but for the reasons outlined above I think the West Midlands needs to maximise the use of rail, both heavy and light.
> 
> 
> 
> As I've mentioned more than once before, a few years ago it seemed Birmingham was putting all its eggs in the bendy-bus plus bus lanes (alias Sprint) basket, with the Metro left out in the cold, but the city centre extension seems to have changed perceptions radically. If there is one thing that I find more exciting than the many new individual projects currently underway or planned for the city centre, it's the way the Metro will link them all together.



I think the train system is doing just fine. But i personally consider it sparse as it is the only real form of public transport we have in birmingham currently. And that is not the fault of the rail network. Trains should just be one part. But for an effective public transport system you need very good coverage. I have lived all over birmingham over the years and have never been closer than a 10 minute drive away from a station, which isn't great when you have to drive just to get your public transport. 

I feel the trains tend to be better for people living outside the city than the people around the centre. But again just my opinion.

I don't mention the buses as why would you want to get on something that costs more and takes 2 to 3 times longer. Not going to encourage people to switch from cars.
But I love when I read more infrastructure being built because the more the better in my mind mind and linking stuff together is one of the big problems we need to solve.
I really am a public transport guy coming from London where cars are the anti christ but feel I have never had a viable option to use it in birmingham as I'd be sacrificing a lot of time and money just to make the point of using it.


----------



## Bureau des etrangers

Can we keep the transport chat in the transport forum??


----------



## Hugh90

Bureau des etrangers said:


> Can we keep the transport chat in the transport forum??



Apologies, got a bit carried away, haha. But really excited about this project. Think it's going to be great for the city giving us another completely different style quarter. Hope it gets moving quickly. Do we know what sort of timescales they are looking at or do we not know yet?


----------



## 916646

This will be going to the planning committee on the 22nd of June

http://eplanning.idox.birmingham.gov.uk/publisher/mvc/listDocuments?identifier=Planning&reference=2016/08273/PA


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## RalphGuy

I already thought it had got planning. 

Did someone (Simon?) say that we might be seeing a start on this later on in the Summer?


----------



## joshwebb

Don't forget they added 2 floors, this could be the reason.


----------



## RalphGuy

Fair point Josh. I'm just impatient. It worries me sites like this won't get built. The more time wasted 'ballsing around', it diminshes the chance it will get built.


----------



## SimonTheSoundMan

RalphGuy said:


> Fair point Josh. I`m just impatient. It worries me sites like this won`t get built. The more time wasted 'ballsing around', it diminshes the chance it will get built.


They're just getting Fabric Square completed first. Let CTC and Seven Cap regroup. Fabric is in final fix and snagging for many parts of the development. Connaught Sq development is 100% on.


----------



## RalphGuy

Simon, I remember you saying in another post a few months back that they'd got two sites starting this Summer and I think we ascertained that one of them was Connaught (unless I was wishful thinking). Can you see this starting by the end of the year at the latest?


----------



## 916646

https://birmingham.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/291519
Watch Seven Capital's presentation and words from Bob Ghosh from 0:56:00-1:50:00

Cllr Barry Henley: "Not enough variety"
Cllr Fiona Williams: "Little boxes once again"
Cllr Gareth Moore: "Tower, which isn't particularly imaginative could have a negative impact on the surrounding area"
Cllr Peter Douglas-Osborn: "Good standard of living for families..so all in all, this is a magnificent Seven Capital project"


----------



## BhamBadger

PerpetualBrum said:


> https://birmingham.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/291519
> Watch Seven Capital's presentation and words from Bob Ghosh from 0:56:00-1:50:00
> 
> Cllr Barry Henley: "Not enough variety"
> Cllr Fiona Williams: "Little boxes once again"
> Cllr Gareth Moore: "Tower, which isn't particularly imaginative could have a negative impact on the surrounding area"
> Cllr Peter Douglas-Osborn: "Good standard of living for families..so all in all, this is a magnificent Seven Capital project"


Lab, Lab, Con, Con, for anyone interested in the parties there.

I agree with Cllr Willians and Cllr Moore here really. Their criticisms are quite valid. 

I really need to question Cllr Osborn though. These really don't strike me as family flats? This strikes me much more as a young professional or commuter type flat than any sort of family home?


----------



## RalphGuy

So has this proposal got to go back to the drawing board?


----------



## 1874

RalphGuy said:


> So has this proposal got to go back to the drawing board?


From what I hear this has pretty much been the case from the start...


----------



## Brum X

RalphGuy said:


> So has this proposal got to go back to the drawing board?


Well it hasnt been declined yet so why would it have to go back to the drawing board ?


----------



## RalphGuy

1874 said:


> From what I hear this has pretty much been the case from the start...



Well what are the planning committee expecting then? A greater variety of flatted accommodation, no tower etc etc?? I can't see how the tower is a problem here when Beorma has a thirty storey tower approved just up the road.


----------



## djay

Some Councilors talk rubbish don't they. 0% affordable is a struggle to believe here considering their track record of selling apartments the size of a shoebox for £250k a pop.



RalphGuy said:


> Well what are the planning committee expecting then? A greater variety of flatted accommodation, no tower etc etc?? I can't see how the tower is a problem here when Beorma has a thirty storey tower approved just up the road.


Yeah negative impact is a bit hard to understand but the variety point is easily understood.

It is interesting that nearly every development in Birmingham has a viability issue when it comes to affordable housing though. It isn't as if land is super expensive but house prices are flat.


----------



## woodhousen

so have we got a determination outcome yet?


----------



## nigeman

Surely Seven Capital have discussed this with planning in depth prior to submitting the application, only to get bashed about by councillors ?? .... Seven Capital have been doing wonders for the city, especially in terms of number of units, which is what the city needs and government wants.
I really like the proposal, but I'm worried here these councillors who it seems "speak for everybody" may give Seven Capital a lot of grief on this and it may end up only a patch of the inspired idea they revealed to us last year hno:


----------



## 882774

As I've been saying for a long time, Bham City Council often trying to justify their paypacket and thus holding back some of teh best stuff in this city or watering it down for no reason. This whole scheme is incredible and should be supported, if they want changes it should be expressed in a positive constructive way.


----------



## JRB1234

So has this been rejected then? If it has what a foolish decision by the council. 

They still have planning for the previous scheme though don't they.... maybe they will just proceed with that instead of a redesign.


----------



## CL81

JRB1234 said:


> So has this been rejected then? If it has what a foolish decision by the council.


No it hasn't. They were just presenting the scheme to the planning committee to get their feedback.


----------



## 882774

I see Custard Factory has just been sold too, didn't the Council pour a load of funding into that? Or am I getting confused with something else.


----------



## JRB1234

*Connaught Square | Digbeth High Street | 18fl | Prop.*

Thanks CL81. Hopefully this gets planning. It is a handsome project and will certainly encourage more development within the area.


----------



## SimonTheSoundMan

RalphGuy said:


> So has this proposal got to go back to the drawing board?





JRB1234 said:


> So has this been rejected then? If it has what a foolish decision by the council.


Planning committee cannot turn down an application based on design, only the legalities. A conservation order may help the council a little when it comes to aesthetics, but there isn't one here.


----------



## SimonTheSoundMan

RalphGuy said:


> Simon, I remember you saying in another post a few months back that they'd got two sites starting this Summer and I think we ascertained that one of them was Connaught (unless I was wishful thinking). Can you see this starting by the end of the year at the latest?


Fabric Square has been delayed so therefore the start of this has.

Yes by end of year you'll see activity.


----------



## Brum X

SimonTheSoundMan said:


> Fabric Square has been delayed so therefore the start of this has.
> 
> Yes by end of year you'll see activity.


I think this will get planning permission however after watching some of the planning committee meeting, the River Rea appears to be a problem especially with the environment agency and i can understand why.


----------



## RalphGuy

The number of 1 bed 1 person flats is also a problem for the planning committee as they fear these will get rented out to students. They've suggested that the flats should be increased in size to become 1 bed 2 person homes so I presume the total number of apartments will be reduced. Personally, I agree with them on that issue.


----------



## BhamBadger

RalphGuy said:


> The number of 1 bed 1 person flats is also a problem for the planning committee as they fear these will get rented out to students. They've suggested that the flats should be increased in size to become 1 bed 2 person homes so I presume the total number of apartments will be reduced. Personally, I agree with them on that issue.


Exactly, one of the councillors was completely false to suggest this scheme is a good family scheme.


----------



## Bureau des etrangers

Digbeth's new public space will be as big as Victoria Square and packed with festivals, markets and events


----------



## 882774

That didn't seem as negative as people suggested on here?

They seem to be making valid points and an increase it heaight to 20 floors. Not sure how many families who can afford a large pad would want to live in city centre though? Digbeth is hardly family friendly is it, and East Side Park is the nearest green space, I would not feel safe taking a family there, let alon emyself on some occasions.


----------



## 1874

Tony Bear said:


> sure how many families who can afford a large pad would want to live in city centre though? Digbeth is hardly family friendly is it, and East Side Park is the nearest green space, I would not feel safe taking a family there, let alon emyself on some occasions.


Maybe not currently but there are at least 10 schemes proposed along, and to the south of, High Street Deritend - some already u/c. Only some of these need completing and the area will begin to improve (subjectively, of course) massively.


----------



## 882774

I must admit, I've walked around Digbeth a hell of a lot day and night and the trouble I have seen has been minimal, however it does have a very bad rep for muggings, though again I've only ever heard this off others. The main problem is it can be very quiet at night and not very well lit. The worst thing I've seen is a gang of hooded masked Skateboarders taking control ofthe dual carriage way, holding back traffic skating down the rd like something out of a mad max film. I think someone tried to mug me last year, but I told him to f*ck off and he did. I sense more there is shady stuff going on in some of the units, the snooker hall that was closed down for child sex exploitation still operates illegally as you see it all locked up, shutters up, cars parked outside on pavement with steam coming from the vents. Also actually witnessed two guys car ringing. The homeless shelter caused a few probs for Custard Factory sometimes, other than that, really for an inner city area of factories I neevr feel threatened. A lot worse on Broad STreet and look waht they are building there.


----------



## djay

Tony Bear said:


> ...the snooker hall that was closed down for child sex exploitation still operates illegally as you see it all locked up, shutters up, cars parked outside on pavement with steam coming from the vents...


Pretty sure, like in all of these type of closures, the licence is just granted to a new person and it continues to operate. It is unlike to be operating illegally.


----------



## 882774

djay said:


> Pretty sure, like in all of these type of closures, the licence is just granted to a new person and it continues to operate. It is unlike to be operating illegally.


Illegally in the eyes of people who were groomed there and their families but yep I get what you are saying. A lot of businesses just operate in a family members name and get past a lot of dubious activity from experience. There are simply not enough police to monitor or take action unless it's blatant I think these days.


----------



## leonigmig

Tony Bear said:


> Illegally in the eyes of people who were groomed there and their families but yep I get what you are saying. A lot of businesses just operate in a family members name and get past a lot of dubious activity from experience. There are simply not enough police to monitor or take action unless it's blatant I think these days.


Way off topic, but if you think this is happening then please report it to the police.


----------



## djay

Brum X said:


> Yeah i have to agree, its next to a National Express coach stn and Nightclubs over the road. Its hardly in the midst of lots of high quality buildings.


But Beorma is perfectly located in the middle of a cluster just like the BCU halls at Eastside... hmmmn.


----------



## Brum X

djay said:


> But Beorma is perfectly located in the middle of a cluster just like the BCU halls at Eastside... hmmmn.


However where the Beorma Quarter meet Allison street on the other side, it comes into contact with old Digbeth, just like this does with Bradford street. Yeah if we were planning on building the MODA tower here, maybe out of place but a 27 floor tower ????? As you say hmmmmmmmm


----------



## BirminghamCORE

Brummyboy92 said:


> 27? Too early to say without visuals, however that's far too high for the location.


You couldn't make it up :nuts:


----------



## Brum X

PerpetualBrum said:


> Planning app. 27 floors in total, 24 of those apartments & those remaining three stories, with glass balustrades on fl 25 look prime for some sort of restaurant. Obviously we need to see better visuals really to make heads and tails of the upper levels, but all I know is at this moment in time, it stands at 27 floors


Josh will be a happy boy


----------



## djay

For the record i always thought Digbeth should be low to medium rise but the damage is done already so meh.


----------



## Brum X

djay said:


> For the record i always thought Digbeth should be low to medium rise but the damage is done already so meh.


How is the damage already done, we dont have any tall buildings in this area ?


----------



## blar

Connaught Square Digbeth by Robert Holland, on Flickr


----------



## djay

Brum X said:


> How is the damage already done, we dont have any tall buildings in this area ?


There are three tall buildings pretty much approved though. Beorma, Smithfields Masterplan and this. The direction of travel is the encouragement of taller buildings. Only a matter of time until more tall buildings will be proposed. I might be wrong though.


----------



## ReissOmari

Lunar Rise is quite tall, why shouldn't we start pushing talls out towards the Ring Road.. Connaught Square is actually closer to the City Core than Moda Broad Street.


----------



## 882774

Because Digbeth is soooo low rise and flat, it's nice to have a few tall buildings to break up the skyline but they do really need to be high quality and perhaps in the brown brick fashion - industrial bronx looking. Imagining taller versions of I-Land and west side stuff which I relaly like


----------



## djay

Not often do i agree with Tony but i think he is right. Tight urban grain, low to medium rise should be the scale around here. A few talls in the right places but so far the only tall that makes sense to me is Smithfield.

I would also say, if you go tall on this site, go tall and make it a statement like Hilton in Manchester or Moda. This is pretty pointless for an everyday resi building when considered in context.


----------



## ReissOmari

I'm happy with this height anyway, it's been amended so many times so hopefully this is the last time and by the time it gets approved (hopefully) Fabrick Square and a few of the other big SC projects will be finished so this could potential start straight away.

This is 27 floors (28 included double height ground floor). Beorma Quarter is 113m at 30 floors, so we could potentially be seeing another 100m+ building here!!

This would be a great if Beorma actually got built and a additional tower in Smithfield too, potentially 3 100m+ towers all within a short distance of each other.


----------



## joshwebb

ReissOmari said:


> I'm happy with this height anyway, it's been amended so many times so hopefully this is the last time and by the time it gets approved (hopefully) Fabrick Square and a few of the other big SC projects will be finished so this could potential start straight away.
> 
> This is 27 floors (28 included double height ground floor). Beorma Quarter is 113m at 30 floors, so we could potentially be seeing another 100m+ building here!!
> 
> This would be a great if Beorma actually got built and a additional tower in Smithfield too, potentially 3 100m+ towers all within a short distance of each other.


True but with this only being resi i can see it being 85-90m tall. Still very good though. Hope we see Smithfield 40fl+ proposal soon. And those two 36 storey mixed use of resi, hotel n office at curzon street. And why not a 45fl+ at holloway circus. :banana:


----------



## SMUK86

ReissOmari said:


> I'm happy with this height anyway, it's been amended so many times so hopefully this is the last time and by the time it gets approved (hopefully) Fabrick Square and a few of the other big SC projects will be finished so this could potential start straight away.
> 
> This is 27 floors (28 included double height ground floor). Beorma Quarter is 113m at 30 floors, so we could potentially be seeing another 100m+ building here!!
> 
> This would be a great if Beorma actually got built and a additional tower in Smithfield too, potentially 3 100m+ towers all within a short distance of each other.



Agree with this...that hopefully this is the last of the amendments as it's time to get the spade in the ground and for Digbeth for start to realise the potential that has been talked about ad nauseum for 10-15 years. Last thing we need here is for this to drag on another couple of years and then get canned for another 5-10 years due to another recession (which we are due). 

Hopefully the height increase allows an increase in the size of the apartments, the amount of car parking and affordable housing element all of which the committee incessantly moaned about at the consultation last time.


----------



## Erebus555

djay said:


> Not often do i agree with Tony but i think he is right. Tight urban grain, low to medium rise should be the scale around here. A few talls in the right places but so far the only tall that makes sense to me is Smithfield.
> 
> I would also say, if you go tall on this site, go tall and make it a statement like Hilton in Manchester or Moda. This is pretty pointless for an everyday resi building when considered in context.


I'm back with my monthly visit (and grumble). I completely agree with this. Height increases are usually a nice surprise but the statement 'big isn't always beautiful' will forever ring true. If they're to invest in making this tower more of a statement then we would be better off with a more inspirational proposal.

Mediocre design in this location sets a dangerous precedent for the rest of the area, but as you've said before, the damage may already be done.


----------



## Bureau des etrangers

Just glad to hear there's still movement behind the scenes. This will improve a huge area of land.


----------



## woodhousen

We are now at 85m tall and 27 floors....


----------



## joshwebb

woodhousen said:


> We are now at 85m tall and 27 floors....


Well your the mod woody.


----------



## sefton66

^^ :lol:


----------



## Brum X

woodhousen said:


> We are now at 85m tall and 27 floors....


And what is your opinion on a 85 metre tower next to the coach station in digbeth.

Good or bad ?


----------



## Mosleyan

Is it really indicative of anything though? I've seen diggers on this site on and off for about a year.. does anyone have any news regarding any movement with this project??


----------



## ellbrown

The site looked clear today, no diggers. Even the car park near the Digbeth High Street was empty! Just the usual graffiti on the hoardings / walls of the River Rea.


----------



## ReissOmari

Mosleyan said:


> Is it really indicative of anything though? I've seen diggers on this site on and off for about a year.. does anyone have any news regarding any movement with this project??


It's still sitting in the planning portal, must be the longest an application has been pending, it was submitted in November 2016! Almost 18 months ago, baring in mind the average application takes 3 or 4 months to get through planning.


----------



## Mosleyan

Yeah I then met briefly one or two people from Seven Capital and they told me they hoped to be on site in April(2017)!! I guess not.


----------



## Brum X

However i would put this project in the "challenging" league of construction projects simply becouse of our River REA, its not your average development especially as this tricke of water can become a violent river when we have floods so care and attention is needed. This is probably the reason for the delay with this project but as long as they get it right, i can be patient.

Im sure this will get approved shortly.


----------



## Engels

ReissOmari said:


> It's still sitting in the planning portal, must be the longest an application has been pending, it was submitted in November 2016! Almost 18 months ago, baring in mind the average application takes 3 or 4 months to get through planning.


No suxh thing as 'average'

While 13 weeks is the target for determinationof major applications its reliant on whether the applicant has actually submitted everything necessary.foe the planning authority to determine it. 

Just in the West Midlands i know of several major applicationa submitted in 2014 & 2015 that are still undetermined due to various issies


----------



## SMUK86

Amendments were submitted in Oct/Nov so it should be reviewed by the committee in the next few months if they have produced everything needed.


----------



## 916646

First things first.

New images of Building 1:



















Zoomed in: 




























& there's many other amendments. 7 pages of amendments no less. I've spent two hours sifting through and my word, I just don't have it in me to upload them all to Flickr and onto here. So, please take it upon yourself to have a look at the planning application.

Few things in short:
Widening of the river channel, floodable terraces with a 2.1m drop from ground to river edge & wider and denser planting of trees & shrubs nearby to strengthen the public realm thus creating a 'green oasis'. 

The revised app from October still stands, including a single bridge instead of the multiple ones proposed last year. Anywho - 770 residential units with the distribution of those being: 79 1 bed for 1 persons 10%, 288 1 beds for 2 persons 37% , 204 2 beds for 3 persons stands at 26% , 153 2 bed for 4 persons stands at 20% & there's 46 3 bed apartments which equates to 6%. Also, the dev comes with 43,872 sq.ft of comm space including a community gym. There'll also be 105 car parking spaces & 656 cycle spaces. 

http://eplanning.idox.birmingham.gov.uk/publisher/mvc/listDocuments?identifier=Planning&reference=2016/08273/PA

There the app ^^ Here are a plethora of other pictures

The 4 buildings.



























Building 2 elevation:









4 elevation:









Courtyard:









Bradford Street:









Building 4:









Building 3 facade:


----------



## ReissOmari

This is getting exhausting now 

I know it's for the better, but this really is enough amendments, 18 months this app has been sitting in the planning portal, it'll most likely be on it for 2 years by the time we getting a result!!

Thanks for the hard work PB.


----------



## Mercurius

That looks superb!! Would be very happy to have that as the end result.


----------



## GregglesUK

Surprising not many apartments in Birmingham have proper balconies, in Leeds it was almost obligatory to have external metal balcony. I do like the design of this very much, will do wonders for the full area and looks a very desirable place to live.


----------



## Brum X

Yes i agree, its looks fantastic and they need to get this right, especially with the river that can flood. Its not a normal devlopment.


----------



## Mosleyan

With each amendment I love this scheme more. They've gone a long way since the first version almost couple of years ago. Let's hope it gets approved soon.


----------



## RalphGuy

^^ Agreed.

When can we now expect this to go to the planning committee?


----------



## Brum Knows Best

Agree with everyone, this seems to be getting better with each amendment, need to insure the developments are right and off good quality 
Wish for one more amendment to make the tower a even 100m but that might be getting a bit greedy


----------



## Force_alfa

just hope this actually starts! much needed development in the area.


----------



## RalphGuy

How long will we have to wait for this to go before the planning committee? Could it be another three to four months?


----------



## morestoreysplease

Love this - nothing wrong in any way at all.


----------



## nigeman

Force_alfa said:


> just hope this actually starts! much needed development in the area.


^^
This will transform Digbeth beyond recognition, a great scheme and a real game changer to help reintegrate Digbeth back into the city centre proper. :banana:


----------



## BhamJim

Buildings 2, 3 and in particular 4 seem to be very similar in design to Lansdowne at Fiveways. I wonder if this means that Inter-serve are already to go with the project and if the construction process will be the same? If so that could mean it gets going quickly once through planning.

I've been impressed with the Lansdowne build, it's come out a lot better in the flesh than I was expecting, and it's gone up quick IMO. I'm not convinced by design though, particularly the windows, which appear the same here. I'm assuming that fronting a busy arterial route (Hagley Road at Fiveways, and Digbeth High Street here with Building 4) its a solution to cope with noise, fumes etc... 

Perhaps one of the forum expects could provide info on this.


----------



## Nacho

There will be a reduction in the number of flats but the tower will remain at 28 storeys.


----------



## Hasaandoo

Nacho said:


> There will be a reduction in the number of flats but the tower will remain at 28 storeys.




I don’t mind the tower is important lol we need this, this is the Digbeth catalyst l!


----------



## ReissOmari

Nacho said:


> There will be a reduction in the number of flats but the tower will remain at 28 storeys.


Is that a ghost? Where you been Nacho !


----------



## joshwebb

Approved.


----------



## jonfsnow

joshwebb said:


> Approved.


I expect diggers and piling rigs and a crane on site by this afternoon


----------



## LocalVernacular

Let's see if Seven Capital make any comments on start times... Been too many false dawns in Digbeth.


----------



## Hasaandoo

Let hope this give lunar rise a kick up the arse to start there venture


----------



## Mosleyan

I've just gone past the site. Still no piling rig :lol: will keep you posted


----------



## MrSirrus

I can see the site from my office.

I'll be the first to tell you all when a piling rig shows up


----------



## Mosleyan

MrSirrus said:


> I can see the site from my office.
> 
> I'll be the first to tell you all when a piling rig shows up


We'll see about that.. :lol:


----------



## SMUK86

Summer according to this article:

https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/midlands/green-light-200m-apartments-and-27-storey-tower-plans

Not fully complete until August 2023, that seems such a long way off. Do we know yet if Colmore Tang are going to be Building it?


----------



## LocalVernacular

Blimey, they must have had that article written in advance of the planning meeting! 

Here's an extract (link in SMUK86 post above):-


> Work on site is expected to begin in summer 2019 with the first phase expected to complete in March 2022 with hopes for the whole site to be completed by August 2023.


All eyes on this, this summer!


----------



## daumal

I'm really looking forward to this one. It'll make such a difference - hopefully Connaught Square and the Metro arriving in a few years will be the catalyst for doing something with the high street.


----------



## Bham123

Excellent news


----------



## mylesbrum

*Connaught Square | Digbeth High Street | 28fl | 86m | Prop.*

In ten years time Digbeth will be completely unrecognisable, a genuine contender for London's cool neighbourhoods... I can only hope that the Connaught units are used for more of the wonderful independent bars and restaurants we're seeing around Digbeth.


----------



## Brum X

Mosleyan said:


> I've just gone past the site. Still no piling rig :lol: will keep you posted


Daily updates coming soon from the Number 50 bus :cheers:


----------



## ReissOmari

12 YEARS ago this thread was started, we finally have approval after over 2 years of amendments! I think we deserve the Zebra for this one!


----------



## sefton66

:banana: epper:


----------



## Bham123

Please add 14m more on


----------



## rotundazag

*Connaught Square | Digbeth High Street | 28fl | 86m | Prop.*

Someone posted the development article on Old Pics of Brum on Faceache.

Check out the responses - a shocking amount of ignorance. People moaning it will close down music venues, put people out of jobs, no social housing etc etc - honestly there are some really idiotic people out there.

Loads of moaners yet it’s obvious the vast majority don’t even have a clue where this development will be.

I can guarantee a lot of these whingers haven’t visited the city centre in yonks! 

Just to add I like Old Pics of Brum but blimey it comes to something when people reminisce about the crappy old subways!!

Anyway I think this is the best thing that could happen to Digbeth - bring it on.


----------



## BhamBadger

Bham123 said:


> Please add 14m more on


Why?


----------



## sefton66

^^ let me guess they’re moaning the council are wasting money building this instead of collecting their bins too? 


Generally a bit of a comedy value reading the comments of some people


----------



## Bham123

BhamBadger said:


> Why?


Make it 100m


----------



## Bham123

Bham123 said:


> Make it 100m


But then again 86m is good also another tower added to the skyline will look good with the lunar rise 75m near it.


----------



## jonfsnow

link the page?


----------



## Brum X

rotundazag said:


> Someone posted the development article on Old Pics of Brum on Faceache.
> 
> Check out the responses - a shocking amount of ignorance. People moaning it will close down music venues, put people out of jobs, no social housing etc etc - honestly there are some really idiotic people out there.
> 
> Loads of moaners yet it’s obvious the vast majority don’t even have a clue where this development will be.
> 
> I can guarantee a lot of these whingers haven’t visited the city centre in yonks!
> 
> Just to add I like Old Pics of Brum but blimey it comes to something when people reminisce about the crappy old subways!!
> 
> Anyway I think this is the best thing that could happen to Digbeth - bring it on.



Ive just had a rant back Zag, cant be doing with moaners and people stuck in the past, really grinds my teeth :nuts:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/brumpictures/


----------



## mylesbrum

rotundazag said:


> Someone posted the development article on Old Pics of Brum on Faceache.
> 
> Check out the responses - a shocking amount of ignorance. People moaning it will close down music venues, put people out of jobs, no social housing etc etc




What bloody music venues? Complete morons, what use is there in retaining a shite surface car park? This isn't going to do anything other than benefit Digbeth.


----------



## Mosleyan

rotundazag said:


> Someone posted the development article on Old Pics of Brum on Faceache.
> 
> Check out the responses - a shocking amount of ignorance. People moaning it will close down music venues, put people out of jobs, no social housing etc etc - honestly there are some really idiotic people out there.
> 
> Loads of moaners yet it’s obvious the vast majority don’t even have a clue where this development will be.
> 
> I can guarantee a lot of these whingers haven’t visited the city centre in yonks!
> 
> Just to add I like Old Pics of Brum but blimey it comes to something when people reminisce about the crappy old subways!!
> 
> Anyway I think this is the best thing that could happen to Digbeth - bring it on.


I've been member of few such groups on Facebook and I had to leave two of them because of the sheer stupid ignorant whinging negativity. And yes exactly people wistfully reminiscing about concrete underpasses and smog just because they were young at the time. Made me puke hno:


----------



## Brum X

Mosleyan said:


> I've been member of few such groups on Facebook and I had to leave two of them because of the sheer stupid ignorant whinging negativity. And yes exactly people wistfully reminiscing about concrete underpasses and smog just because they were young at the time. Made me puke hno:


Same Mos :nuts:


----------



## Brum X

Sorry to go off topic folks but this is what the same people who are complaining about Connaught square are the same people who loved this.

I dont know if you was in Birmingham in the early 90s Mos (You was probably a little nipper) but where FIVE GUYS is now in the new Bullring used to look like this.

You couldnt make it up. :nuts:


----------



## markmcd1976

I love the ones who miss the cesspit of the 1960s bullring.


----------



## rafter1

I'll get me coat.ld:


----------



## Mosleyan

Brum X said:


> Sorry to go off topic folks but this is what the same people who are complaining about Connaught square are the same people who loved this.
> 
> I dont know if you was in Birmingham in the early 90s Mos (*You was probably a little nipper*) but where FIVE GUYS is now in the new Bullring used to look like this.
> 
> You couldnt make it up. :nuts:


I was born in '91 (and in a different country....) so this Birmingham I only know through old photographs and films but find it endlessly fascinating.


----------



## Bham123

Whooaa so much better now


----------



## SMUK86

SMUK86 said:


> Summer according to this article:
> 
> https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/midlands/green-light-200m-apartments-and-27-storey-tower-plans
> 
> Not fully complete until August 2023, that seems such a long way off. Do we know yet if Colmore Tang are going to be Building it?



Colmore Tang conformed:

https://www.constructionenquirer.co...e-start-for-200m-birmingham-mixed-use-scheme/


----------



## Bureau des etrangers

August 2023 does sound like a long way off but it'll be here in no time. Plus it's a very big site. Just glad to see a developer finally confirmed.


----------



## rotundazag

Which is phase 1 & which is phase 2?


----------



## Brum Knows Best

Does anyone have a before picture of this site? can't remember what is looked like before all the demolition.

With this and hopefully a few other developments going ahead, Digbet will be a place to live.


----------



## 882774

Mosleyan said:


> I was born in '91 (and in a different country....) so this Birmingham I only know through old photographs and films but find it endlessly fascinating.


I think the interior of the new Bullring is fab and it obviously kickstarted the city's regeneration with Selfridges and love Spiceal Street but the street layout and exterior of the new Bullring is disgusting and like a huge barrier, or castle in the city centre. 

The old Bullring was dingy but more of a hub of cultural activity and some brilliant little independent shops. I think we lost that and it has never returned. Would love to see a dedicated new old Bullring where these smaller traders could have come in, it would have been perfetc for pop ups and street food stalls. I just do not like the large corp chains. Way too many in Brum and it set the precedent for things to come.


----------



## rockrocky

rotundazag said:


> Which is phase 1 & which is phase 2?


We are definitely getting the tower first. Here is the Indicative Phasing Plan from the planning application. Not sure where the split is from phase 1 to phase 2 though.


----------



## MrSirrus

Mosleyan said:


> We'll see about that.. :lol:



I can see the site from my office.


I will be the 3rd person to tell everyone when a piling rig goes up.


----------



## Guest

Nice to know tower is in first phase this will be a shot in the arm 4 digbeth along with other resi's also incorporating river in this about time and having more independent retailers as mosleyan and others have commented and that 2023 finish sounds dubious I would have thought summer start finished by late 21 early 22 at most but what do I know


----------



## mylesbrum

Razmus dazmussen said:


> that 2023 finish sounds dubious I would have thought summer start finished by late 21 early 22 at most but what do I know



I would say it's about right since they're phasing it out, they probably COULD do it quicker but I think they'd rather save money and do it bit by bit - also the whole canal filling job will probably be a lengthy task.


----------



## nigeman

Must admit I thought after such a long wait, Seven Capital/Colmore Tang would have had their guys prepping the site within weeks of the planning permission, that said they've probably redirected resources and manpower into different projects whilst battling with the planners.
To date though Seven Capital have delivered on everything they've committed to to date, so looking forward to this in the summer :banana:


----------



## markmcd1976

It will all depend on off plan sales probably. Hit the required target and it will start.


----------



## sefton66

Seven capital often exceed their own expectations in sales I don’t see this being any different if anything I could imagine people more likely to want to live here than 5 ways etc.


----------



## Kingsheathen

I think it’s a good thing that Seven Capital will use their own construction company, Colmore Tang to build this. It should make it easier to agree a price and actually start building. Many jobs stall when the developer and the Contractor can’t agree a price for construction costs. It seems we have with situation at Luna Rise at the moment.


----------



## sefton66

I think had this have gone ahead a few years back we wouldn’t have seen it built out and probably amended to be less ambitious and smaller scale

Seven capital have done some big projects got a lot of knowledgeable staff on board and grown colmore tang I think this is more deliverable by themselves now than in the past


----------



## MrSirrus

Mosleyan said:


> I've been member of few such groups on Facebook and I had to leave two of them because of the sheer stupid ignorant whinging negativity. And yes exactly people wistfully reminiscing about concrete underpasses and smog just because they were young at the time. Made me puke hno:



I am a member of the one in Halesowen. I've never felt so... different from people I share the place I live with.


One was a rant about liking the old days when "women knew their place" and "anorexia didn't exist" and the other was a comment saying the the local Co-Op was bang out of order because they were organising charity funding for a place in BARTLEY GREEN! Which is NOT Halesowen!


Co-op responded to a complaint, which the user on the Facebook wrote, without a hint of irony, that the reason they'd picked a place in Bartley Green was because it was the nearest charity that applied for funding.


These are the kind of people that will moan about anything. The only thing I'd say to them is how do you expect us to be able to do anything about services without improving the economy of the city first?


----------



## rotundazag

^^ prior to social media they swore loudly at lampposts whilst necking a can of special brew


----------



## metrogogo

Some activity at Connaught Square with what could be ground surveys taking place on both sides of the River Rea.


Connaught Square Digbeth High Street by metrogogo, on Flickr


----------



## rotundazag

^^ get it built!!


----------



## Hasaandoo

rotundazag said:


> ^^ get it built!!




Summer start


----------



## SimonTheSoundMan

sefton66 said:


> Seven capital often exceed their own expectations in sales I don’t see this being any different if anything I could imagine people more likely to want to live here than 5 ways etc.


No they don't!


Seven Capital plc "sell" them to their daughter company Seven Invest Ltd, who get stuck trying to sell them for years!


----------



## Eastside al

There are portacabins being delivered and set up on the car park behind the white swan this morning, quite a few vans in there aswell.


----------



## jonfsnow

Is this being built all at the same time?


----------



## Hasaandoo

jonfsnow said:


> Is this being built all at the same time?




I think it phased, they are building the tower first which is main thing lol


----------



## rotundazag

*Connaught Square | Digbeth High Street | Residential / Retail | 28fl | 86m | Approved*

In the same way that the Eastside Locks proposal could become a “Brindleyplace Place” for that area, I see the equivalent here for Digbeth.

No doubt about it, it’s a real game changer - bringing the River into play is a huge.

So much to look forward to - 2one2, 103 - Arena/Paradise - the ever expanding Jewellery Quarter - now this!


----------



## jonfsnow

Hasaandoo said:


> I think it phased, they are building the tower first which is main thing lol


I'd rather they do up the river with the public realm and some shorter buildings round it first. Digbeth has no green space. That way if Brexit shafts everything further down the line we have a more complete development. Building the tower first will mean we just have a weird Montparnase isolated with no public realm in the middle of Digbeth.


----------



## nigeman

Eastside al said:


> There are portacabins being delivered and set up on the car park behind the white swan this morning, quite a few vans in there aswell.


^^
Site investigations by the look of it, a couple of small drilling rigs burrowing away at lunchtime today.


----------



## damo1969

Colmore tang be finishing off regency place summer hill and SJUV move straight over to Connaught!!


----------



## RalphGuy

damo1969 said:


> Colmore tang be finishing off regency place summer hill and SJUV move straight over to Connaught!!



Are you surmising this damo or do you know?


----------



## damo1969

I'm sure they announced that colmore were going to build it in the press blurb so I am surmising as would fit logistically for a start soon ish or hoping!


----------



## Mosleyan

Colmore Tang is their 'in-house' contractor, they build everything by Seven Capital.

I think Ralph's question was whether you're sure they'll be on the site right after finishing off SGUV and Regency Place


----------



## damo1969

No I'm not sure but they have all those projects nearing completion not sure how far nexus and copper box are along but haven't announced any other big scheme so it was a logical guess no more sorry


----------



## nigeman

damo1969 said:


> No I'm not sure but they have all those projects nearing completion not sure how far nexus and copper box are along but haven't announced any other big scheme so it was a logical guess no more sorry


^^
They haven't announced anything new locally, but nationally Seven Capital have a number of large schemes underway.
Following receiving planning permission for Connaught they announced they expected to be on site in the summer, so unless we hear differently, I think within 2-3 months this "mouth watering game changer" will be underway.


----------



## RalphGuy

nigeman said:


> ^^
> They haven't announced anything new locally, but nationally Seven Capital have a number of large schemes underway.
> Following receiving planning permission for Connaught they announced they expected to be on site in the summer, so unless we hear differently, I think within 2-3 months *this "mouth watering game changer"* will be underway.



The Opal Fruits of development.


----------



## ReissOmari

Opal Fruits?? Wow really showing your age there :lol:


----------



## RalphGuy

Forgotten they were that long ago. Fond memories. Was one of those who would approach a packet with a determination not to chew but would fail miserably.


----------



## ComPurch

Same with Opal Mints and Fruit Pastilles.


----------



## RalphGuy

Don't remember Opal Mints at all. Fruit Pastilles yes, remember those. Never quite tickled my taste buds like Opal Fruits did. I think unwrapping the Opal Fruits from their variously coloured paper wraps helped delay the experience a bit longer, thus increasing the pleasure. 


New thread created in Spaghetti Junction to discuss memories of our younger years.


----------



## blueboy

Pacers? They were like mint opal fruits.


----------



## metrogogo

The big clean up begins.


Connaught Square | Digbeth High Street by metrogogo, on Flickr


Connaught Square | Digbeth High Street by metrogogo, on Flickr


Connaught Square | Digbeth High Street by metrogogo, on Flickr


Connaught Square | Digbeth High Street by metrogogo, on Flickr


----------



## Bham123

Another mid rise tower at 86m not bad. If only they do round it off to 90m or even at 100m.


----------



## Route 435

I'd like this to be 8 floors and lower. Just add to the density as I think towers are out of character for the Digbeth and Deritend High street area.
Love what they proposed with the River Rea though.


----------



## LocalVernacular

Still plenty of life on the Connaught Square site when I walked past this morning. 'Enabling works' I'm assuming?


----------



## Ppmb80

LocalVernacular said:


> Still plenty of life on the Connaught Square site when I walked past this morning. 'Enabling works' I'm assuming?


When did they say they were due to start construction on this ?, game changer for digbeth should be a catalyst for other developments to get moving ...


----------



## ReissOmari

Ppmb80 said:


> When did they say they were due to start construction on this ?, game changer for digbeth should be a catalyst for other developments to get moving ...


Should be a Summer start


----------



## SMUK86

This one is on the agenda for next weeks planning meeting, from what I can make out from the recommendation it has been deferred to agree/secure a S106 agreement on numerous aspects of the development such as the River Rea and Public Realm as well as offsite affordable housing.


----------



## Hasaandoo

SMUK86 said:


> This one is on the agenda for next weeks planning meeting, from what I can make out from the recommendation it has been deferred to agree/secure a S106 agreement on numerous aspects of the development such as the River Rea and Public Realm as well as offsite affordable housing.




So does this mean it isn’t starting any time soon?


----------



## Guest

Been dragging it's feet this one, hope they start on this finally. 
Digbeth needs this, and so does the river rea.


----------



## RalphGuy

Very odd. Thought this was approved. When I saw the thread had returned, I thought they'd made a start on site. They were supposed to be starting in the Summer. Well it's Summer now, let's see a start.


----------



## Brum X

RalphGuy said:


> Very odd. Thought this was approved. When I saw the thread had returned, I thought they'd made a start on site.


Me too zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## Hasaandoo

What a S106 agreement? And they need to get on with this, it really is taking the biscuit now


----------



## Brum X

Hasaandoo said:


> What a S106 agreement? And they need to get on with this, it really is taking the biscuit now


Especially with how quickly Eastside locks has taken to get approved and compared to this, it is a bit of a joke. :bash:


----------



## 916646

Hasaandoo said:


> What a S106 agreement? And they need to get on with this, it really is taking the biscuit now


This might help


----------



## Hasaandoo

*BIRMINGHAM | Connaught Square | High Street Deritend | Residential/Retail | 28fl | Approved*



PerpetualBrum said:


> This might help




Now that amazing 

And 

a) restrict the development or use of the land in any specified way
b) require specified operations or activities to be carried out in, on, under or over the land
c) require the land to be used in any specified way; or
d)require a sum or sums to be paid to the authority )on a specified date or dates or periodically.

Im sure they have stated all there above intention with accordance with these requirements...


----------



## djay

Hasaandoo said:


> Now that amazing
> 
> And
> 
> a) restrict the development or use of the land in any specified way
> b) require specified operations or activities to be carried out in, on, under or over the land
> c) require the land to be used in any specified way; or
> d)require a sum or sums to be paid to the authority )on a specified date or dates or periodically.
> 
> Im sure they have stated all there above intention with accordance with that requirements...


They will need to exchange the legal contract which pretty much forces them to do it.


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## Hasaandoo

djay said:


> They will need to exchange the legal contract which pretty much forces them to do it.




How long do you think that will take?


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## djay

It’s finger in the air stuff.


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## nigeman

Must admit this delay is really disappointing, I thought all the i's had been dotted and t's crossed. You can understand why some developers just walk away from some projects after years of wrangling over stuff like this.hno:
This one is in my top three for starts this year along with 103 Colmore Row and the Mercian for being "game changers"...


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## 1874

BCC really do seem to be milking this one for all it's worth.


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## djay

1874 said:


> BCC really do seem to be milking this one for all it's worth.


In what way?

The original delays were due to Natural England/Environment Agency so I am confused by your statement.


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## LocalVernacular

Just having a look at the docs - I'm no planning official, so I could be wrong - but this looks to be a 'minor' amendment to the S106 set out when planning was granted back in January (17th)

The original S106 proposed included the developer funding the relocation of the Kennedy Memorial. This is now considered not feasible, and so instead the developer will provide funding for a new work to be commissioned.

This is the main text:-




> Members will recall that they previously resolved to approve the Connaught Square development subject to the completion of an appropriate S106 agreement that
> included the relocation of the John F Kennedy public art from High Street into the
> development. Officers are currently in the final stages of completing the agreement,
> however through discussions with the artist who constructed the work it has become
> clear that it cannot practically be incorporated into the development as envisaged.





> Therefore the developer has agreed to commission new public art to the value of £50,000.
> 
> 1.2 Members are requested to authorise this amendment to the original resolution (set
> out in paragraph 8.1 below) to enable the agreement to be completed and planning
> permission to be issued.


If I'm reading it right, this should mean the S106 is pretty much agreed and so the original 'summer' start could still be on the cards?


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## djay

LocalVernacular said:


> If I'm reading it right, this should mean the S106 is pretty much agreed and so the original 'summer' start could still be on the cards?


Read exactly right. It's why i brought up my point above as i actually read the reason for why it is being brought back to committee.

Only caution i would give is that there are conditions to discharge i believe (from the original committee report whether this has changed, i do not know) so it's unlikely they will start for at least another 8 weeks minimum unless they start on site unlawfully.


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## 1874

djay said:


> In what way?
> 
> The original delays were due to Natural England/Environment Agency so I am confused by your statement.


Correct me if I'm wrong but it was my understanding that there had been several revisions to the proposal post-submission which don't appear to have been due to Natural England/Environment Agency comments (i.e. design revisions such as height, materials, car parking spaces, number of units etc). And now the existing JFK artwork can't be incorporated for whatever reason so the developer is paying for a new piece of art to be commissioned. Perhaps milking was the wrong word but this has certainly been very drawn out considering the app was submitted in 2016. Surely much of this could have been resolved during pre-app discussions?


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## haqemi

1874 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but it was my understanding that there had been several revisions to the proposal post-submission which don't appear to have been due to Natural England/Environment Agency comments (i.e. design revisions such as height, materials, car parking spaces, number of units etc). And now the existing JFK artwork can't be incorporated for whatever reason so the developer is paying for a new piece of art to be commissioned. Perhaps milking was the wrong word but this has certainly been very drawn out considering the app was submitted in 2016. Surely much of this could have been resolved during pre-app discussions?




In a very major scheme such as this, issues/delays relating to the delivery of s.106 heads of terms are not unusual. It would appear that the developer and the local authority have negotiated a reasonable alternative to ensure that there’s no appeal against failure to deliver this requirement.


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## djay

1874 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but it was my understanding that there had been several revisions to the proposal post-submission which don't appear to have been due to Natural England/Environment Agency comments (i.e. design revisions such as height, materials, car parking spaces, number of units etc). And now the existing JFK artwork can't be incorporated for whatever reason so the developer is paying for a new piece of art to be commissioned. Perhaps milking was the wrong word but this has certainly been very drawn out considering the app was submitted in 2016. Surely much of this could have been resolved during pre-app discussions?


There were revisions but we do not know whether that was due to the Council (some will have been of course) and others by Consultees. The latter may have only brought up the issues at planning stage as they are not always consulted at pre-app. 

Indeed some of the amendments might have been down to the applicant crafting the scheme during the application process.

But as haqemi said, it's a major scheme, they take an age.


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## metrogogo

Some movement over at Connaught Square with the removal of rubbish and some vegetation around the gap in the wall that overlooks the River Rea, hopefully, this is to facilitate the erection of safety barriers before work on the site can begin.


Connaught Square | High Street Deritend by metrogogo, on Flickr 


Connaught Square | High Street Deritend by metrogogo, on Flickr


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## 916646

metrogogo said:


> Some movement over at Connaught Square with the removal of rubbish and some vegetation around the gap in the wall that overlooks the River Rea, hopefully, this is to facilitate the erection of safety barriers before work on the site can begin.
> 
> 
> Connaught Square | High Street Deritend by metrogogo, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Connaught Square | High Street Deritend by metrogogo, on Flickr


K4 are no longer involved on this. Another architect have been brought on board to take the project forward and work closely with CTC. They all work together on another project in the city...Hopefully a positive move & a start on site soon


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## djay

I assume the new architect has won the working drawings package.


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## RalphGuy

PerpetualBrum said:


> K4 are no longer involved on this. *Another architect have been brought on board to take the project forward* and work closely with CTC. They all work together on another project in the city...Hopefully a positive move & a start on site soon



Who?


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## 916646

RalphGuy said:


> Who?


Building Design Group (BDG)


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## Hasaandoo

PerpetualBrum said:


> Building Design Group (BDG)




PB when do you think work will commence on site?


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## 916646

I have zero idea. Look at the Whatever Happened thread


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## RalphGuy

A long time in planning and still waiting for this to start but I am hopeful. And why not?


Situated in Birmingham's bohemian district of Digbeth and close to the streets of Deritend and Bordesley where the real Peaky Blinders strutted around over a hundred years ago, Connaught Square is just one of many proposals being put forward at present.


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