# Historical photos of motorways and roads in your country



## Zibou

Some old pictures of French Autoroutes can be found here :
* http://panneauxenbeton.chez-alice.fr/michelin_autoroutes.html
They used to be signposted with concrete Michelin signs... the 130 kph speed limit was imposed on the autoroute network in 1973.


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## Patrick

german A8 near the austrian border in the 60s

























Berlin - Rostock - Magdeburg in 1984
http://www.mwillems.nl/berlijn84.htm


























































somewhere between Berlin and Dresden in 1986
http://www.autobahn-online.de/phorum/read.php?7,50824

















A9 near Bayreuth in the early years
http://www.ub.uib.no/prosj/mellomkr...ultur/Fotohistorie/Agfa/storebilder/foto5.htm









A2 german-german border at Helmstedt in 1989
http://www.grenzen-los.de/deutsch/foto-001.html


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## Mateusz

Very nice pictures, I interest about infrastructure in Communist Block  I wish to find some pictures takin in those time of motorways constructed in Poland during the communism era. Current A2 from Wrzesnia to Konin, and current A4 from Jaworzno to Kraków...


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## cezarsab

i can't believe its Germany up there!!
what a hell of a change!

the last pic is very cool...every car has its direction...some to ddr some bdr transit..so to cssr..cool


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## Mateusz

True, so much things changed since 1989.


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## Patrick

i just wonder why they wrote CSR with single S on the sign far left


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## Qwert

Patrick said:


> i just wonder why they wrote CSR with single S on the sign far left


Maybe that sign with CSR was older. From times when name CSR was used for Czechoslovakia. I think it was before 1960.


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## SmarterChild

Patrick said:


>


Is this the east? one could actually get to scandinavia from there back then? :?


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## Patrick

maybe there were special ferrys to scandinavia for west berliners?


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## Qwert

Patrick said:


> maybe there were special ferrys to scandinavia for west berliners?


Well, Iron courtain doesn't mean that there was no traffic between East and West.


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## Mateusz

We know, but this trafic was limited


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## rilham2new

*Indonesia*

_Some Hihghway pics from late 1980s_

*Tangerang Interchange - (Tangerang - Merak tollway)* *Banten Province









*Cawang Interchange - Jagorawi Tollway* *Jakarta









*Tomang Interchange - Jakarta Inner Ring-road* *Jakarta


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## mapman:cz

*D1 in CSSR*

Pictures of D1 in former Czechoslovakia taken in 1970's:

Km 2 heading Brno:









Km 5 heading Brno:









Km 22 heading Brno:









Km 23,5 heading Praha:









Km 43 heading Praha:









Km 44 heading Praha:









Km 62 heading Brno:









Km 82 heading Praha:









Km 104 heading Brno:


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## Mateusz

Ceskoslovenske dalnice :cheers:


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## x-type

those photos from DDR and ČSSR are amazing!!!!! please, keep'em posting!!

btw, it's so interesting to watch the cars: in ČSSR old Škoda, DDR Trabant and Wartburg, Poland Polonez and Polski Fiat, Yugoslavia Zastava (but in Yugoslavia we had quite a mixture, a lot of german cars (Beetle, Wartburg, Trabant), Škoda, Polski FIat, Renault 4 (we had a factory)... my grandpa had exactly the same Wartburg as in photo of Jankomir interchange


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## Mateusz

I can post some pictures of FSO Polonez and Polski Fiat 125p/FSO 1500  But I worry about that it will be off topic...


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## Moveax

KIWIKAAS do you have any old photos from Wellington?


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## Stifler

This is a good example of the evolution happened in the Spanish network in the last decades.










A 'Comarcal' road (¿CV-159?), 'Nacional' road (N-VI) and Autovía (A-6).


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## RawLee

The oldest pic I could find...it is the M7 motorway


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## Patrick

haha, that picture from spain is cool  maybe an 8 lane superhighway, darkblack asphalt, is coming to the right in the future? 

@Rawlee, from which year os that pic?

here are some more german pictures from Autobahn Online

AVUS in Berlin, 1925 (nowadays part of A115)









Autobahn Köln-Bonn, 1932, first exit near Wesseling (better: two lane limited-access road), nowadays A555









the same road (Köln-Bonn) in 1973









the first autobahn gas station near Darmstadt in 1936









nowadays A8, here in 1936









after ww2, these signs were posted on the west german sides of the german-german border to remember the downfall of the third reich and were removed after the reunification, when the current border to Poland has been officially regarded as valid. the pic is from 1956.


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## RawLee

I have absolutely no idea.


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## Patrick

sorry for flooding this thread with photos, but at the moment i have much fun in searching those old pictures 

i hope that's ok 

some pictures from http://www.heimatsammlung.de/topo_unter/10/autobahn/autobahn.htm

(West-)Berliner Stadtautobahn (A100, A115 nowadays)

Zehlendorf in the 50s









Siemensstadt (year unknown)









1961









Charlottenburg


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## Mateusz

Feel free to post them  Those pictures form old times are great. I was always interested , ''how it was''


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## x-type

here are some more photos from Yugoslavia. sorry for bad quality, i photographed them with my mobile from my children's encyclopedia (from 1986 )

1. i don't know which border crossing this is. it might be Šentilj/Spielfeld (today SLO/A) because Renault 4 has Maribor's plates, and there is Mercedes which must have A or D plates (i cannot see well)









2. motorway near Rijeka, part of today's motorway Zagreb - Rijeka. this motorway is unofficialy the oldest in Yugoslavia (officialy the oldest is in Slovenia). Slovenians claim that it was just a dual carriageway because of "blue" sign. i cannot claim that in 1970's it had green motorway sign, but in 1990's it had green sign 100% (and it was absolutely unchanged from 1970's)









3. toll boots Lučko (Zagreb south), entrance to today's A1 Zagreb - Split (and Zagreb - Rijeka as A1/A6). it is unrecognizable today because those old boots were changed in late 1990's. 









4. west entrance (from Istrian side) to tunnel Učka. it was the longest tunnel in Yugoslavia (5062 m), built in 1981 i think. today it is 3rd longest tunnel in Croatia. toll boots are today slightly changed, but generally it looks similar


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## goschio

Patrick said:


> german A8 near the austrian border in the 60s


LOL, the construction workers wear Lederhosen.


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## LT1550

SmarterChild said:


> Is this the east? one could actually get to scandinavia from there back then? :?


Yes, this is the GDR. There were scheduled ferry connections from Rostock and the Island of Rügen to Denmark and Sweden ... GDR-citizens could make trips for example to Trelleborg, Sweden but they were not allowed to leave the ship... some still sprang into the Baltic Sea to leave the ship and finally their country.


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## Nikom

*Lisbon *

A5 in the 40's



















25th April Bridge construction




























Some roads:


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## Mateusz

It looks really nice  Where A5 is located ? Or it has other number now ?


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## Tom 958

The Downtown Connector in Atlanta, now I-75/85, c. 1952










Another photo taken from the same location c.2004. Note that absolutely nothing is the same.


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## Nikom

MateoW said:


> It looks really nice  Where A5 is located ? Or it has other number now ?


A5 it's an highway that connects Lisbon, the capital, to Cascais, a coastal city 30 kilometres west of Lisbon. It is very know for it's traffic jam at rush hour today.It was the first highway built in Portugal in the 40's. 

A5->Lisbon-Cascais


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## Mateusz

Even in those times traffic was big on this motorway


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## Mateusz

Warsaw, Torunska Route under construction 











Warsaw, Poniatowski Bridge 











Warsaw, Lazienkowska Route


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## DanielFigFoz

UK

M1-










http://www.iht.org/motorway/m1bridge1961.jpg

M2-

http://www.iht.org/motorway/m2foreshorebw.jpg

Preston by-pass (1st UK motorway, now part of the M6)

http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/environment/historichighways/gallery/mwaysign.jpg


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## Mateusz

I suppose 3+3 motorways were somrthing uncommon in those time


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## ChrisZwolle

And it lacks shoulders. I read the Netherlands was the first country _in the world_ to construct shoulders at all motorways.


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## Timon91

Still 3+3 was quite something for those days


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## DanielFigFoz

Yeah, most motorways in the UK are 3+3.


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## 1000city

Patrick said:


> @Rawlee, from which year os that pic?


Looks like early/mid 90s considering cars. Great thread BTW :cheers:


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## RipleyLV

Which country built the first motorway in the world ? Wasn't Italy?


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## ChrisZwolle

1. Bronx River Parkway in 1922.









2. Cross Island Parkway, 1930's









3. Interchange Cross Island Parkway, 1930's









4. FDR Drive in 1949.









5. Grand Central Parkway in 1944.









6. GCP again, in 1955.









7. Henry Hudson Parkway in 1940









8. BQE (I-278) in 1960









9. Clearview Expressway (I-295) in 1960









10. Cross Bronx Expressway (I-95) in 1959









11. Gowanus Expressway (I-278) in 1944









12. Cross County Parkway in 1953









13. Garden State Parkway in 1960


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## ChrisZwolle

RipleyLV said:


> Which country built the first motorway in the world ? Wasn't Italy?


There isn't concensus about. Germany and Italy are often mentioned, but those were substandard. The Netherlands was the first country that included full size emergency lanes (shoulders) on all motorways. Personally, I think the New York Parkways can be seen as the predecessor of the motorway.


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## RipleyLV

Chriszwolle said:


> There isn't concensus about. Germany and Italy are often mentioned, but those were substandard. The Netherlands was the first country that included full size emergency lanes (shoulders) on all motorways. Personally, I think the New York Parkways can be seen as the predecessor of the motorway.


Thanks Chris for your answer, I'll sleep better now  
Cool pics, I like the second one, three level interchange, didn't expect that in the 30's!


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## RV

Some Helsinki roads in 1970-1972:
Lahti motorway interchange with Kehä I/Ring road I








Länsiväylä/Western motorway in Lauttasaari








Sörnäisten rantatie/Sörnäinen coastal highway, main highway towards Lahti, Tuusula and Porvoo








































































































































Sörnäinen CHW (Merihaka, 1982)








Kulosaari bridge (Itäväylä/Eastern motorway, 1970)








Itäväylä/Eastern motorway near Itäkeskus in 1970








Länsiväylä/Western motorway under construction in 1963








Tuusula motorway, 1970´s








Itäväylä/Eastern motorway near Itäkeskus, 1970








Lahti motorway, 1980´s








Lahti motorway, 1985


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## CborG

Some historical photo's of dutch motorways:

A2, near Amsterdam (1972) During the construction of IC Holendrecht and the A9:









A2, near Utrecht (1950-60):









today:


















A2, near Culemborg(1935):









same, 1979:









A2, north of Den Bosch (1950-60):


















A12, south of Utrecht (1965-70)









A22 near Velsen(1955-60):









A16, van Brienenoordbrug Rotterdam (1979):


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## CborG

Nice set of pics made in 1979, from www.wegenforum.nl:


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## Mateusz

Great pictures ! Roads in Netherlands looked great at those times


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## CborG

30 years later:


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## LtBk

I want to see old pictures of our Interstates.


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## Patrick

A29 near Oldenburg, Germany, during a NATO practise in 1984


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## RipleyLV

^ Ain't that hippy car, I mean, Volkswagen camper van?


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## Patrick

yeah 

more pics from http://www.geocities.com/marcelmonterie_d/index.htm around 1990


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## ChrisZwolle

Marcel has tons of pics from the former DDR. Very interesting.


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## Mateusz

Nice I always wanted to see DDR autobahn pictures, I wish to see picture of Polish E22 (today A4)


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## PLH

S22 Elbląg - Kaliningrad 

*1938, 1957, 2000, 2008*


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## ultra laverdi

^^^ it should be 4 lines road.


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## PLH

^^ Yes, but only when Kaliningrad were Königsberg.

But now the whole traffic are trucks and few cars.


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## mgk920

PLH said:


> ^^ Yes, but only when Kaliningrad were Königsberg.
> 
> But now the whole traffic are trucks and few cars.


How much is traffic expected to increase once that border checkpoint opens?

Mike


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## ChrisZwolle

Dutch "autosnelwegen";

A59 Waalwijk-Oost









A59 circa 1975









A59 U/C in 1961









Traffic has been busy for a long time:









Electronic sign on the S116 in Amsterdam, circa 1969.









A2 near Utrecht a long time ago:









A2 near Zaltbommel circa 1960
http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/1295/sab001100235lw5.jpg

Afsluitdijk before the motorway A7 was constructed:
[img]http://www.postcardsfrom.nl/17/nl171623.jpg

suicide lanes also existed in the Netherlands! (1965)


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## Verso

Interesting pics, incredible amount of traffic.


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## Timon91

Yeah. Suicide lanes in NL, the A2 was still paved with normal stones instead of asphalt or sth, that's a while ago :lol:
My parents have a encyclopedia from the seventies with lots of maps of the Netherlands. I've had a look at it and it's very interesting to see all highways that weren't there yet. If I have time I'll photograph them and post them here.


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## PLH

It's very noisy, but slows the traffic significantly. Such roads are common in smaller villages in Silesia - no need for repaving for 70 years kay:


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## Qwert

PLH said:


> It's very noisy, but slows the traffic significantly. Such roads are common in smaller villages in Silesia - no need for repaving for 70 years kay:


Such pavement is nice, but IMO it belongs to pedestrian zones or streets where traffic is very slow (like 20-30 km/h). In higher speeds and not to mention during rain it becomes very dangerous. Tyres don't have good grip on such pavement and thus it's totally unacceptable on nowadays national roads. That's also why this last stretch is going to be repaved. It stayed there so long because traffic is very low there since this road is parallel to motorway D2. But, locals said they will use the stones and pave some calm street with them, because they like them.


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## Mateusz

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=3C97E3F4DF21871C

Very interesting report from DDR in 1990

Motorways...towns, Berlin 

Reccomended to watch


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## wdw35

Mateusz said:


> Cobblestone section, picture from 50s


Cobblestone motorway?? This must be the first time I see this!

Now how about a wooden pavement motorway 
That would be nice, or at least with wooden hard shoulders!

Edit: wooden road, as in:


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## Timon91

The A6 in Poland used to have some cobblestone sections until a couple of years ago, right?

I think this picture is Verso's, I found it on Google:


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## Mateusz

At least it is history for real now


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## Verso

I haven't been to Poland, Timon.  I think I found it on that Berlinka website, and I think this particular part wasn't a motorway officially (I think neither expressway), but it surely looks bad. 

I'll look at those videos, Mateusz, it sounds interesting!


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## Mateusz

They really are. They really makes me feel like in Poland in early 90s.


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## Dr.Mabuse

some historical movies








*EDIT
50 jaar geschiedenis van de E40 - Dutch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_JCU6ENeqs

pictures of the reichsautobahn
http://images.google.de/images?hl=de&um=1&q=reichsautobahn&sa=N&start=21&ndsp=21


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## Andrzej_3598

Mateusz said:


> Somewhere in Poland, probably '70. Milita's car, FSO Polonez


This is Warsaw. Behind this gentelmen - Trasa Łazienkowska. I would say late '70s, or early '80 (beginning of Polonez manufacturing - May 1978)


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## Morsue

Let me fix that for you.



Dr.Mabuse said:


> Driving on the autobahn 1937 countryroads vs motorways


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## RawLee

2 old videos from Hungary. Its M7 in the videos,since only that existed in the 70's.


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## H123Laci

^^ look at that "yellow angel" in the 1st video at 1:17... :lol:

maybe that car was chosen to make broken car owners laugh... :lol:


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## Mateusz

Ex-Reichsautobahn in Silesia


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## Fuzzy Llama

H123Laci said:


> ^^ look at that "yellow angel" in the 1st video at 1:17... :lol:


Look at the plates of the broken Fiat 125... Austrian car from Wien or am I wrong?


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## Mateusz

Seems like Fiat 125 was fairly poular abroad

Our newsreels always called Western countries as 'High developed countries' often without mentioning names


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## DanielFigFoz

Looks like he M7 was (is?) a good road. 
Very bad drivers though. But I lived in Portugal so I can't say much.


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## RawLee

The second video( I assume the bad drivers are in that) is an educational movie about how to(or how not to) drive on motorways.


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## keber

I think, that second video is more like educational - how to drive and not to drive on motorway.


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## sotavento

Qwert said:


> Such pavement is nice, but IMO it belongs to pedestrian zones or streets where traffic is very slow (like 20-30 km/h). In higher speeds and not to mention during rain it becomes very dangerous. Tyres don't have good grip on such pavement and thus it's totally unacceptable on nowadays national roads. That's also why this last stretch is going to be repaved. It stayed there so long because traffic is very low there since this road is parallel to motorway D2. But, locals said they will use the stones and pave some calm street with them, because they like them.


Stone pavement is really good INSIDE URBAN AREAS ... keeps speeds at a reasonable level (even when the driver want's to pass the urban zone at speed he is faced with the thundersound/bumpiness of the road and feels compeled to reduce his speeding. :cheers:

Overe here (in portugal) they use stone roadbed in Pedestrian crossings , slowing down /traffic calming areas , and even in complete sections of "water filled" terrain (where the soil is prone to water infiltration and the usual trackbed doesn't provide good enoug drainage). :cheers:

Urban renewal plans are also packed with stone sidewalk and roadbeds everywhere. 





























Off-topic: stone pavement is not dead at all ... in fact granit stone pavement is one of the largest portuguese raw material exports ... :lol:


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## Verso

Ban.BL said:


> Speed limits are the same as on Vienna tangential motorway


Is that supposed to be a guideline? :lol: J/k, don't take it personally. :cheers:


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## Qwert

Verso said:


> Is that supposed to be a guideline? :lol: J/k, don't take it personally. :cheers:


80 km/h is standard speed in case of urban motorways.


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## Ban.BL

I am not taking it personally i expected something "funny" from you. 
Guideline is urban motorway speed limitation.


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## Turnovec

Verso said:


> With a speed limit of 80 km/h (49 mph).  I didn't know there were bus stops along it. Are they still present?


Yes, and they look like they haven't been renovated or at least painted since they were built ...


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## Ban.BL

Here how does those bus stations look like link


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## Ban.BL

Turnovec said:


> Yes, and they look like they haven't been renovated or at least painted since they were built ...


something like this in Veliko Tarnovo




























i don´t think so... better for sure


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## Turnovec

^^ :lol: I don't know where you took the 2nd nd 3rd photos from but they're surely not from Veliko Tarnovo. Only the 1st photo is from VT, but i think it is very old , as that place doesn't look like that anymore.  

Either way, there's nothing like the view of these "houses" right by the Gazela bridge ... and couple of months ago they were still existing . hno:


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## Ban.BL

Photos are from Tarnovo google it.
Those houses near Gazela don´t exist there and i don´t get your point, isn´t the topic roads?


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## Turnovec

^^ Are you telling me that I don't know my own birthplace ?!? :lol: 

Posting 1000 photos of god knows what places on earth won't change the things i saw about Gazela... last time i passed there was in August this year. :dunno:


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## Ban.BL

So? I don´t get your point? 
Are you just telling that to bash and spam or is it on some peculiar way connected to topic?

And if you´re referring to Gypsy refugees from Kosovo i especially don´t see their connection to topic, care to explain?


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## Turnovec

^^ Hmmm , i think was replying to a comment by Verso and suddenly you showed up posting photos of unfamiliar or non-exisitng places ... I don't get it too :|


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## Timon91

Ban.BL said:


> Those houses near Gazela don´t exist there and i don´t get your point, isn´t the topic roads?


Well, in this FC Groningen fan report (= Dutch football club that played Partizan Belgrade in the UEFA Cup a few years ago) there are slums at that location. Even though this picture is not very clear, it is clear that there are slums. The description of this photograph in the fan report says "tussen de Sava en de snelweg bevinden zich uitgebreide sloppenwijken", in English: "between the Sava river and the motorway there are large slums", which seems to match the location Turnovec pointed at in Google Maps


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## Ban.BL

Gypsy refugees driven from Kosovo came there and settled, town find appropriate place for them to settle and build them homes end of the story.


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## Ban.BL

Turnovec said:


> ^^ Hmmm , i think was replying to a comment by Verso and suddenly you showed up posting photos of unfamiliar or non-exisitng places ... I don't get it too :|


Non-existing... yeah right :nuts:
talking about non-existing those slums you would like to be there in Belgrade, but they are not there. You really have more tn one issue with Serbia, how petty.


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## 1000city

Katowice - A4 (aka Górnośląska ave.)

Mid '70s:









Jan '09:









^^ It got massive noise barriers since then ^^


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## bleetz

The transformation is very impressive.

Are there any pedestrian crossings built/planned for that road? I mean overground or underground, not single level, of course.


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## Ban.BL

Buliding Danube bridge Beška, Serbia, 70's


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## Timon91

^^Is that the bridge that was bombed in the Yugoslav war and that has been reopened recently? Or was that another bridge? I remember reading sth about that bridge in the newspaper a couple of months ago.


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## Ban.BL

It was bombed, but not destroyed, NATO have bombed it twice, but didn't manage to destroy it. It was closed from end of April 1999. (when they've bombed it), until July when it was reconstructed. 
The bridge was finished in 1975. 



















Now they are building new bridge beside that one, the same as the old one, because motorway goes over the bridge and it can hold only 1x2 lane.


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## HS

bleetz said:


> The transformation is very impressive.
> 
> Are there any pedestrian crossings built/planned for that road? I mean overground or underground, not single level, of course.


There are some, but on the left side of this photo there is a city and on the right side there are only few office blocks, shopping mall and one hospital, so we don't need so many pedestrian crossings over it.


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## blogen_

seem said:


> ^^ I don`t know about any fortification built up in these parts of Old town in the 1775. Fortification of the old town was damaged by Maria Theresa in 1775. So not built up and not in this area.
> 
> just black marked area - http://www.culture.gov.sk/pk/sl/mksr/dok01/rez7.gif


The exterior fortifications existed in the late Middle Ages already (built against the hussites): The city walls and the suburban fortifications in the 16th century Onto the 18th century the city was bigger at this, a new fortification was being built because of this.


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## seem

^^ Thank you, I didn`t know that. Anyway we are totaly off topic.


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## Spookvlieger

*These pictures are not mine but from Wimpie25 on Photobucket!

Belgium:*

*E25 in 1986*










*N4 in 1979*










Interchange with the Brussels RO near Zaventem late 70ties










NO idee where this could be, either Brussels RO or Antwerp RO










*Digem interchange 70ties*



















E40 Beez viaduct over the river Maas(Meuse)near Luik (Liège)










*Antwerp RO*










*E40 or A10 Brussels -Ostend*










*A26 Near Liège*










*A10 Brussels-Liège*


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## piotr71

I *think* it's Antwerp. The tall building is a hotel (do not remember the name). By that hotel, international coaches have their stop and just behind is a petrol station. Right hand side carriageway would lead us to Breda and Eindhoven.


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## ChrisZwolle

Yes, it's the R1 near Berchem, looking west. To the right is the church tower of Berchem.

Here's how it looks today:


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## piotr71

I found name of the hotel:



>


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## Spookvlieger

^^^^I never understood why we let our highwaysides grow over with so much greenery. See how it looked in the 70ties...much nicer!


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## hofburg

trees clean air.


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## Fargo Wolf

Love the pics everyone.


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## riiga

Very nice pictures indeed. I fixed the colour and tone on four of those from Belgium, since I though those were really good pictures. Looking at them now gives an even more beautiful image of what the motorways look back in the days...


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## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, it's a shame that Belgian motorways have become jungles. They have a similar issue in Germany. You don't see much from the motorway, even in urban areas.


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## Spookvlieger

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yeah, it's a shame that Belgian motorways have become jungles. They have a similar issue in Germany. You don't see much from the motorway, even in urban areas.


Yea... It's like that when driving around Brussels. Your near a big city and what do yo see? You might as well be standing in a jam in a forest .
I've always liked it when driving in the Netherlands and you could see the skyline of a city from miles away...


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## Escher

Vegetation blocks noise and pollution. It's a bless for whom live near.


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## ChrisZwolle

No, the effect on noise is so marginal and uncertain it isn't even considered in noise studies which round off decibels at 2 decimals. They say the noise-reducing effect is at most 1 dB if vegetation is fully grown with summer leafs. 

The effect on pollutant concentrations is not exactly known, and the concentrations drop rapidly once you're off the lanes. 25 meters is enough to reduce NOx by as much 40%. Unless the trees are directly next to the shoulder, the effect will be pretty marginal.


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## x-type

interesting yellow markings in Belgium. when did they leave it and what did it mean actually (i see also regular white)?


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## Spookvlieger

x-type said:


> interesting yellow markings in Belgium. when did they leave it and what did it mean actually (i see also regular white)?


Normally yellow is only used when roads ar undergoing works to lead traffic to ohter lanes(temporary). Mayby there were works nearby or mayby some things changed sinds then. I won't know because I was born in 1991


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## piotr71

Found in wiki whilst searching for something else. England M6 1969:


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## Komiksulo

This is a very interesting thread--I especially like seeing the pictures of eastern European motorways. Keep in mind that when I was growing up in Canada, they might as well have been on the moon; there was no way we could have visited them. 

For a change of pace, here's a link to historical pictures of the Queen Elizabeth Way, which was the first divided highway in Ontario. It was completed in 1939. From the site http://www.thekingshighway.ca/.

Picture page 1
Picture page 2

It bears a great resemblance to the German autobahns of the same period, but still has some undivided sections.


----------



## seem

when was our motorway (D1) "Harbour bridge" (Prístavný most) projected..


----------



## Basincreek

Surprised we don't have any pics of the Pennsylvania Turnpike yet.


----------



## Spookvlieger

Basincreek said:


> Surprised we don't have any pics of the Pennsylvania Turnpike yet.


Find some please!


----------



## Spookvlieger

Some picture I found:

*Hollywood freeway during the 50ties*









http://www.infomercantile.com/images/e/e1/Hollywood-Freeway.jpg


----------



## Spookvlieger

*Interstate 90,1961*









http://www.61thriftpower.com/images2/highway.jpg


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## Spookvlieger

Cahuenga Pass Freeway at Mulholland Drive - 1941










Cahuenga Pass Freeway at Highland - 1940










1959 - Freeway median near Hollywood










all from this site:http://www.google.be/imgres?imgurl=...=N&ndsp=20&tbs=isch:1&ei=rVppTPTqN9ObOIagxbgF


----------



## 1+1=3

D1 near Prague in 70's vs 2005


----------



## 1+1=3

First section of D1 near Prague in 1971, originally it had yellow stripes which were abandoned few years later, and it lacked middle crash barriers since they were not considered important, and there was no speed limit!


----------



## hofburg

1+1=3 said:


> First section of D1 near Prague in 1971, originally it had yellow stripes which were abandoned few years later, and it lacked middle crash barriers since they were not considered important, and there was no speed limit!


damn, 1 year before we got a motorway! :lol:
I read the wiki article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D1_motorway_(Czech_Republic). it's too bad the motorway wasn't finished before WW2 already.  and what were you doing from 1945 to 71??


----------



## 1+1=3

hofburg said:


> what were you doing from 1945 to 71??


We were busy with building socialism 
Anyway, after the WW2 there was huge decline of individual traffic and we reached same number of cars of 1939 not until late 50's.


----------



## g.spinoza

1+1=3 said:


> D1 near Prague in 70's vs 2005


Very nice!


----------



## ed110220

The Settlers Way (N2)-Black River Parway (M5) interchange in Cape Town just after it was completed in 1962. Just beyond is the Raapenberg Road exit and in the background Athlone power station.










Since then the empty median has been taken up by extra lanes, the southbound M5 to westbound N2 ramp has been removed and replaced by one at Raapenberg Road and the cooling towers at Athlone were demolished on 22 August 2010.

Credit Etienne du Plessis who has an amazing collection of photos from the 1940s onwards on Flickr.


----------



## BND

http://fortepan.hu/ is a site with loads of old photographs, mostly from Hungary. Worth checking if you have time. Here are two motorway-related pictures:

Beginning of M1-M7 motorways in Budapest, from the mid-70's:









M7 at the beginning of the 70's. The car is a Ford Taunus, with plates from the Federal Republic of Germany:


----------



## keber

Damn, I really must take some time and scan a book I have at my job from late 1970s (or early 1980s) describing most Italian autostrade with bunch of photos.


----------



## ed110220

Another part of the N2 in Cape Town, this time the recently completed Eastern Boulevard in 1967. 










Etienne du Plessis


----------



## ed110220

Newly constructed N1, 1950.










The N1 in the 1950s at the foot of the Tygerberg Hills, today in Cape Town's northern suburbs but then open countryside. This appears to be just East of what is now the Plattekloof Road exit.










Same location, 1950. Look at all that freshly turned soil. This must have been something for 1950 I think.










N1, 1960. Concrete pillars next to the road look rather hazardous!










The N1-N7 Wingfield cloverleaf interchange under construction, 1964.










N1 near Worcester, 1961. 










N1 between Cape Town and Paarl, 1974










All from Etienne du Plessis on Flickr.

For comparison, this is roughly the same place at the Tygerberg Hills today:


----------



## bogdymol

A1 motorway, Romania (opened in 1973):



dnd said:


> *A1 - year 1982*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: pietgazz
> http://www.panoramio.com/user/3429406?with_photo_id=26075708


----------



## Bad_Hafen

^^bikes and horses on motorway :nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Bicycles are legally allowed on many U.S. Freeways.


----------



## DanielFigFoz

Not on many European ones though :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I believe it was allowed on Spanish Autovías until recently.


----------



## Le Clerk

Bad_Hafen said:


> ^^bikes and horses on motorway :nuts:


We used to be a much healthier and greener country.


----------



## Alpos

In 1974, the first highway in Turkey, built with Bosphorus Bridge.


----------



## Bad_Hafen

Le Clerk said:


> We used to be a much healthier and greener country.


With all those clean communist steel industry


----------



## seem

*Viaduct Podtureň former longest bridge in Slovakia near Tatras on a motorway D1, Liptov region between 1977-83
*


----------



## 1000city

blogen_ said:


> Why do they not sink the motorway to underpasses? It would be possible to rehabilitate the city above the underpass.





seem said:


> ^^ It was build up in communist state so urbanism was not that good, they didn`t care about some crapy and shanty old town.


It's not about the commies, it's about the modern urbanism, that proved to be a dead end. Priority for individual transportation, separation of pedestrians and road traffic, adoration of wide multilane streets, overpasses etc. They did it in the west too with UK beeing probably the best example (not mention the USA). We had a lot of this in Poland too. In my city they turned this...









...into this:









Despite owning a car in commie times was a luxury the roundabout was shut down (not for trams) few years after opening duoe to heavy traffic jams and accidents. One big fail. It's now in the very centre of the city looking awful and expecting redesign and refurbishment after construction of the nearby new train station is finished.

In the neighbouring city of Chorzów they turned this...








...into this:









The once pleasant square became a sea of asphalt and conretehno: The overpass was supposed to be demolished, but the small city ain't got aprox. 400 mio euros for the new bypass, so it'll stay with us for many more years :bash:


----------



## Bad_Hafen

*Belgrade *early 70´s


----------



## Bad_Hafen

Road Banja Luka - Jajce 

70´s 










1900´s


----------



## Bad_Hafen

Rugovo Canyon near Peć, Serbia


----------



## Buddy Holly

Bad_Hafen said:


> Rugova Canyon near Peja, the Republic of Kosovo


There, fixed that for you. :cheers:


----------



## Bad_Hafen

it is not important to what extent you change the names like Rugovo-a, Peć-ja Kosovo-a they are still Serbian words, with Serbian root and meaning. 

Now pls contribute with photos


----------



## Triple C

Alpos said:


> In 1974, the first highway in Turkey, built with Bosphorus Bridge.


In terminology, Karayolu (even the quality or pave doesn't matter) is Highway and Otoyol is Motorway. It's an Otoyol.

Antalya;
Istanbul road at 1930's. The road get asphalted before become a part of E-24(as old European road numerations) highway til the new numerations. Currently maintaned by Municipality including light railline.









The slight curve at the back of the photo is now a 2x3 road with 2 collector roads (total 10 lane) that merges D-400 and D-650 (_taken 2 years ago_);









Kemer road, before the completion of urban boulevard goes parallel;









This highway is a carpark today









This road is also owned by Municipality today (with classic tramline);

















This part at City Center, Kalekapısı was also counted as highway. It's a pedestrian street currently (Taken at 1940's);


----------



## Uppsala

Motorway at E4 Essingeleden in 1966 when it was opened. Look at the old police uniform that was used in Sweden in that time. The motorway was opened by the prime minister Tage Erlander who was prime minister in Sweden 1946-1969. This is still the important part of the motorway network in Stockholm. :happy:


----------



## Des

ed110220 said:


> The Settlers Way (N2)-Black River Parway (M5) interchange in Cape Town just after it was completed in 1962. Just beyond is the Raapenberg Road exit and in the background Athlone power station.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since then the empty median has been taken up by extra lanes, the southbound M5 to westbound N2 ramp has been removed and replaced by one at Raapenberg Road and the cooling towers at Athlone were demolished on 22 August 2010.
> 
> Credit Etienne du Plessis who has an amazing collection of photos from the 1940s onwards on Flickr.


Wow the cape flats look so empty!


----------



## panda80

A documentary realized in 1977 about a truck trip from England to Doha, Qatar. Very interesting testimonies and images from the roads back then. The first episode presents the route from London to Istanbul, and is considered the "easy bit":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTn70VLaNaE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhmQqDBwCNE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ytf5Xe8a50&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gpBvnfJygQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAw0vDxVbNQ&feature=related


----------



## panda80

And the second part, from Istanbul to Doha, is considered the "difficult bit". It's just incredible how the roads in Turkey changed till now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ04eXwiE0k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w3OTGItTzA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgbm0KaiT6A&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izw4vuBZb4E&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAw0vDxVbNQ&feature=related


----------



## Bad_Hafen

1977.


----------



## Uppsala

^^
That part of E94 is now a part of E70.


----------



## Triple C

^^ So the E94 now belongs to Turkey or another Southern Europe country.


----------



## Uppsala

^^
E94 is now going from Corinth to Athens.

But in 1977 it was going from Klagenfurt to Dobreta turu Severin via Zagreb and Belgrade. 

Today most part of the old E94 is replaced by E70, some parts by E61.


----------



## Bad_Hafen

Belgrade 1974. 

You can see a lot of streets-motorways


----------



## Uppsala

Bad_Hafen said:


> Belgrade 1974.
> 
> You can see a lot of streets-motorways


Lovely film with a lot of 1970s feeling. 

And I noticed it was possible to see the low pressure sodium lights at the motorway in Belgrade. :happy:


----------



## Bad_Hafen

yes they were common back than on motorways i remember seeing them on Zagreb ring road until few years ago.


----------



## x-type

i passed almost whole A3 in HR few days ago and i have noticed them at some intersections. so they are not dead


----------



## bogdymol

Autobahn:













































pictures stolen from here


----------



## Bad_Hafen

Old sign in Serbia


----------



## bogdymol

There are a lot of historical photos of motorways in Russia on this website.


----------



## piotr71

East Germany (DDR) A motorway under construction somewhere near Erfurt.



>


wiki


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That is B4.


----------



## Norsko

Bad_Hafen said:


> Old sign in Serbia


When did directional signs in Yugoslavia change from blue to yellow?


----------



## keber

In eighties but very slowly.


----------



## hofburg

^ do you know why they decided to change?


----------



## keber

Bu, don't know. 

Probably they wanted modernised look and they took Swiss font and Italian colours (except for yellow, which came from Germany - I pressume), at first on new motorway Ljubljana-Kranj. Then other roads followed.

In my opinion colour scheme of ex-Yugoslavian signage is the most clear in Europe - green-motorway - blue-2 and 4 laned expressways - yellow-normal roads - white-towns and cities.


----------



## Bad_Hafen

keber said:


> In my opinion colour scheme of ex-Yugoslavian signage is the most clear in Europe - green-motorway - blue-2 and 4 laned expressways - yellow-normal roads - white-towns and cities.


agree


----------



## hofburg

Verso said:


> And a pic of some old internally-lit signs in Ljubljana:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3577347474 by anjči_


old signs in ljubljana. I always thought that they are for expressways.


----------



## Norsko

^^ Old colour scheme, new font.

I agree, the way you use patching on all signs is very clear. Here we only use blue signs (our motorway color) on normal roads on the last junction before a motorway, but you never see yellow (our color for normal roads) on a motorway sign. It feels like the planning of this system never was concluded proparly. (Unless we just copied Germany, wich I think has the exact same color scheme.)


----------



## Bad_Hafen

selling gasoline in Belgrade


----------



## Bad_Hafen

*E-75, 70's.*
Yugoslavia (Serbia) I presume


----------



## Bad_Hafen

Crash in Belgrade 1979.


----------



## Djurizmo

These photos of Porsche are real photos of "Belgrade phantom" crash. 

Movie, based on true story was filmed in Serbia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YWZ-aa-aqU


----------



## Bad_Hafen

Road builiding in Novi Sad, Serbia before WWII



















Novi Sad


----------



## Bad_Hafen

Belgrad 1960. 










older


----------



## dars-dm

3rd Ring (pre and during (re)construction, from oldmos.ru)









2000 (Luzhniki section u/c)









2000 (Luzhniki, newly-opened section)









2000 (Leninskiy prospekt interchange u/c)









2000 (Leninskiy prospekt)









2000 (Vavilova, intercange u/c)









1963 (Avtozavodsky bridge)









1980 (Gavrikova tunnel u/c)









1975 (Rizhskaya)









1975 (Rizhskaya)









1999 (Rizhskaya, reconstruction)









1980s (Savelovskaya)









1998 (Leningradka interchange)









1999 (Leningradka interchange)









1999 (N. Maslovka, still with trams)


----------



## aswnl

dars-dm said:


> 1998 (Leningradka interchange)


Why is changing lanes prohibited here ?

Nice pictures, by the way


----------



## dars-dm

aswnl said:


> Why is changing lanes prohibited here ?


Cause it was/is a tunnel entrance/exit ramp


----------



## italystf

The "Autostrada dei Laghi", opened in 1924 was probably the first motorway in the world. It had only 2 lanes back then.

Original map of that period: nowadays A8, A9 and A8\A26 follow the exact same route.









Opening celebrations, 1924









Beginning of A8 in Milan with toll booth. Pic taken in 1929.









A9 near Como in 1929.









Other pics from http://www.storiadimilano.it/citta/milanotecnica/strade/autostrade.htm

Milan toll booth









A8-A9 intersection in Lainate


















The Milan - Turin motorway (now A4) opened in 1932: here the halfway point ("metà strada") between the two cities.









In 1947 near Novara opened the first motorway rest area in the world (Autogrill Pavesi). Turin - Milan motorway was upgraded to 2x2 in 1962.
Pics from http://www.veveri.it/img/storia/pav4.jpg
1948:








1949.








1955: still the old pre-war Italian flag








1962: when the motorway was upgraded to 2x2, was completed the bridge structure containing the restaurant. Other 11 similar rest areas were built across Italy in the following years. In 1970s they started to build two rest areas, one for every direction with no bridge.

















View from above.








Advertisement above the motorway, when it was half-profile only.









In 1935 opened the Genoa - Serravalle motorway, now A7.









Some pics of Italian "autostrade" in 1950s and 1960s.
Pics and info here: http://www.miol.it/stagniweb/autosole.htm

A10 Genoa - Savona opened as half-profile in 1956 and as full-profile in 1964: here some pics before duplication:
















Here the highway has 3 lanes, the central one for overtaking in both directions:








It was 2+1 in central Genoa:


















The viaduct over Polcevera river in Genoa opened in 1967:



























A7 Milan - Genoa opened in 1960 already as 2x2 but without hard shoulders and crashbarriers:








Toll booth on A7 near Genoa: 5-digit Italian licence plates are extremely rare today, even in smaller provinces.








Beginning of the A7 in the outskirt of Milan:









"Autostrada del Sole" Milan - Neaples was built between 1956 and 1964, already as 2x2 with hard shoulders. The first section, between Milan and Parma opened in 1958, being the first 2x2 motorway of Italy. Here a fuel advertisement from 1964 celebrating the completition of the motorway:









GRA (Rome's ringroad) in 1962: 1+1 road with at-grade intersections.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^I thought that G.R.A was built as 2x2 road at the beginning


----------



## Zagor666

Very nice Pictures :cheers:Funny to see all those Oldtimers on the Road


----------



## ko7

Very nice pictures. I really like the picture of the viaduc in Genova.


----------



## Verso

Great photos! But it's disputable, if those were really motorways. I guess in those times it was enough, if a road was wide and straight (Belgrade-Zagreb road was also called a motorway from the beginning, even though it had 2 lanes at first (it didn't have the motorway sign though)). But what if there was such a road somewhere else in the world already before 1924, but we don't know about it, because people didn't call it "motorway"?


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> Great photos! But it's disputable, if those were really motorways. I guess in those times it was enough, if a road was wide and straight (Belgrade-Zagreb road was also called a motorway from the beginning, even though it had 2 lanes at first (it didn't have the motorway sign though)). But what if there was such a road somewhere else in the world already before 1924, but we don't know about it, because people didn't call it "motorway"?


Those road were called motorway back then because, although being 1+1, they were built specifically for motorized traffic and not-motorized traffic wasn't allowed. Plus, they were tolled and had no at-grade intersections with local roads. No road anywhere in the world was build before with those characteristics.

Some pics of "Autostrada del Sole" (A1) in 1968:
source: http://maggiolinomane.blogspot.com/2011/10/autostrada-del-sole-era-il-1968-tra-le.html

"Aglio Est" rest area between Bologna and Florence.









Near Magliano Sabina.









Queue at Benevento toll booth.









Monteporzio Catone exit, between Rome and Naples.









Near Florence.









First toll booth near Milan (Melegnano).

















Near Orte.









Another old pic of "Aglio" rest area on A1.









Other pics of Italian motorways from early 70s:

A1 near Florence: 3x2 without hard shoulder for a short section.









A1 near Florence in 1970.









Florence toll booth.









A9 Como - Swiss border in 1972.









A4 Milan - Bergamo.









A14 in Apulia (km signs style didn't changed in 40 years!).









"Teano" rest area between Rome and Naples.









Building the Brenner motorway (italian side) in the 70s.









Novara toll booth on Milan - Turin motorway in 1930s.









Novara bypass in 1980s: now roaside yellow lines aren't used anymore.









Beginning of "Autostrada dei Laghi" in Milan in 1959: the second carriaggeway was already needed.









Same place in 1929.









And in 1960.









Billboard from 1930 celebrating the construction of Milan - Bergamo motorway.









Alfa Romeo safety test in 1965, Milan.









Workers of "Autostrada del Sole" having their lunch in 1960: looking at their clothes and equipment, that pic seem taken more than a century ago!









Celebrations at the opening of the complete "Autostrada del Sole" in 1964.









Beginning of "Autostrada del Sole in Milan, late 1950s.









A11 Firenze Mare in 1961: it was built as 1+1 in 1933.









The original 1+1 Firenze Mare through a Roman aquaduct near Lucca.









This is a PDF e-book about the history of Italian motorways. It's in Italian only but full of interesting pics.
http://www.autostrade.it/pdf/la-nostra-storia/parte1.pdf
http://www.autostrade.it/pdf/la-nostra-storia/parte2.pdf


----------



## x-type

i had no idea that Italy had yello edge lines  Yugoslavia copied it from you probably.


----------



## Verso

Great again. Italystf, do you perhaps know when the first motorway with (at least) 4 lanes was opened in Italy? Also, when did Italy start using the motorway sign?


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> Great again. Italystf, do you perhaps know when the first motorway with (at least) 4 lanes was opened in Italy? Also, when did Italy start using the motorway sign?


Our first 4 lanes motorway was A1 between Milan and Parma except the Po bridge opened on 7 december 1958. No idea when motorway sign was introduced, neither A numbers.


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> Our first 4 lanes motorway was A1 between Milan and Parma except the Po bridge opened on 7 december 1958.


Wow, that's 34 years after 1924. So _Autostrada dei Laghi_ (or some other) wasn't widened to 4 lanes before 1958?


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> Wow, that's 34 years after 1924. So Autostrada dei Laghi (or some other) wasn't widened to 4 lanes before 1958?


Yes. I can't find the exact date but it was somewhere in early 60s. In 1960, according to Wikipedia, opened the link with CH. Turin - Milan was upgraded in 1962.


----------



## keber

x-type said:


> i had no idea that Italy had yello edge lines  Yugoslavia copied it from you probably.


Not only yellow lines, signage was directly copied too. I remember that sign in lower right corner being on Slovenian A10 (now A1) still until about 2000.



italystf said:


> A1 near Florence: 3x2 without hard shoulder for a short section.


And design of climbing lanes in Slovenia is (sadly!) still exactly that as in this picture on completely new motorways.


----------



## bogdymol

keber said:


> And design of climbing lanes in Slovenia is (sadly!) still exactly that as in this picture on completely new motorways.


What's the problem with the climbing lanes?


----------



## italystf

Border between Italy and Territorio Libero di Trieste (1977-54) near Duino:

























I-YU border in Fiume\Rijeka before WWII.









Some pics of the I-YU border after WWII:

























































Border crossing "Casa Rossa" near Gorizia during Ten Days War.








Soldiers helping tourists to leave Yugoslavia at the breakup of the war.








other pics: http://www.linkiesta.it/foto-slovenia

Opening celebrations of A1 Milan - Bologna in 1959
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLknHEnig_o&feature=related

Driving from Milan to Stresa in 1953 through "Autostrada dei Laghi"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6RxdzSz9eQ

Opening of the A3 Salerno - Reggio Calabria in 1974 (note the A17 sign, thad doesn't exist anymore).
http://www.mneo.tv/1974.-Dopo-20-anni-Aosta-e-Reggio-Calabria-sono-più-vicine-1-0-0-0-85.html


----------



## Verso

^^ Very interesting. This one also (I've finally found the old-style car on our expressway sign):


----------



## keber

bogdymol said:


> What's the problem with the climbing lanes?


There should be a hardshoulder for full length because there is a higher probability of broken vehicles. Actually instead of climbing lane there should be a normal profile with a third driving lane on the inside (like in Austria).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I agree, climbing lanes are too often cheap solutions that take away the much-needed shoulder. Another issue with climbing lanes is that the shoulder driving lane ends at the top of the hill, causing trucks to be forced to the left lanes at a slow speed. This often results in weird manoeuvres and dangerous situations. Adding a third lane in the median is much better indeed. They do that in Germany too, but not in France. 

Situations like these are dangerous, no shoulder and sharp turns, hardly any time to react to broken down vehicles. (A75 in southern France)

foto 082 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> Another issue with climbing lanes is that the shoulder driving lane ends at the top of the hill, causing trucks to be forced to the left lanes at a slow speed.


In Slovenia climbing lanes end further away, so trucks can gain speed (the only good thing about our climbing lanes).


----------



## Penn's Woods

italystf said:


> ....In 1947 near Novara opened the first motorway rest area in the world (Autogrill Pavesi)....


Interesting pictures! But I'd bet money that the Pennsylvania Turnpike and Merritt Parkway both had service areas when they opened in 1940.


----------



## italystf

Penn's Woods said:


> Interesting pictures! But I'd bet money that the Pennsylvania Turnpike and Merritt Parkway both had service areas when they opened in 1940.


Well, maybe it was the first in Europe. When the first expressway in the US opened? How many countries had motorways or expressways before WWII?


----------



## pt640

italystf said:


> Well, maybe it was the first in Europe. When the first expressway in the US opened? How many countries had motorways or expressways before WWII?


^^
1943 Hungary 16km expressway

http://filmhiradok.nava.hu/watch.php?id=5524#


----------



## italystf

pt640 said:


> ^^
> 1943 Hungary 16km expressway
> 
> http://filmhiradok.nava.hu/watch.php?id=5524#


Very similar to the original "Autostrada dei Laghi".


----------



## seem

1934, somewhere in Northern Slovakia -


----------



## Penn's Woods

italystf said:


> Well, maybe it was the first in Europe. When the first expressway in the US opened? How many countries had motorways or expressways before WWII?


There are a lot of expressways/freeways in the New York area (some of them getting a good distance from the city, on Long Island or to the north) today that were opened as early as the 20s but may not have been expressways/freeways at the time. (By the way, I'm using the words "expressway" and "freeway" to mean the same thing - a limited-access road, no driveways, no grade crossings.... In official U.S. definitions an expressway is something short of that, but everyone, and I mean everyone, from the Northeast to Chicago, except roadgeeks and specialists, uses them for that, with "expressway" being the dominant term.) The West Side Highway in Manhattan (although I'm not sure it was called that), which no longer exists, looks to me as if it was an expressway by any standards when it opened about 1930. You could even argue for the Harlem River Drive in upper Manhattan, which opened in the 1890s as a place to race horses and carriages and so on, which converted to automobile use in the 1910s, and a privately-owned toll road called the Long Island Motor Parkway that also opened...I forget when, say somewhere between 1905 and 1915...It closed in the 30s.

The first long-distance intercity freeway/motorway/expressway was the Pennsylvania Turnpike: a 160-mile (about 250-km) segment, from Carlisle (west of Harrisburg) to Irwin (near Pittsburgh), opened in 1940. It was, and still is, a toll road. I believe it even had no speed limits at first.

Also in North America, I believe the Queen Elizabeth Way, connecting the Niagara area to Toronto, opened around 1940. But I don't think it has service areas in the European sense.

As you may know, toll-free Interstates in the U.S. do not have commercial facilities (restaurants, etc.) on them: a "rest area" is a parking area with toilet facilities, picnic tables, maybe vending machines, sometimes tourist information. This is because at the time the legislation funding the system was enacted, there were people in Congress worried about businesses in small towns that relied on through traffic. So instead you get that sort of thing at exits (which at least means there's competition....) Toll roads will have "service areas" where you will find restaurants, or fast-food places or Starbucks, or several of them, or gift shops.... (I've never heard of a hotel at one.) What you describe as a "rest area" - the one in Italy with the restaurant - I'd call a "service area." Just to be clear, the Pennsyvania Turnpike has service areas. 



pt640 said:


> ^^
> 1943 Hungary 16km expressway
> 
> http://filmhiradok.nava.hu/watch.php?id=5524#


1943 wasn't before World War II; it was during. 

:cheers:


----------



## bogdymol

pt640 said:


> ^^
> 1943 Hungary 16km expressway
> 
> http://filmhiradok.nava.hu/watch.php?id=5524#


Main road 4 between the city-center and Ferihegy airport?


----------



## -Pino-

italystf said:


> 1962: when the motorway was upgraded to 2x2, was completed the bridge structure containing the restaurant. Other 11 similar rest areas were built across Italy in the following years.


That's a very familiar design on the Northern Italian motorways indeed. Interesting to read that there is eleven of them.

Here you can see one in its current state on Streetview. I think it's even the one pictured?


----------



## italystf

-Pino- said:


> That's a very familiar design on the Northern Italian motorways indeed. Interesting to read that there is eleven of them.
> 
> Here you can see one in its current state on Streetview. I think it's even the one pictured?


Are there any rest area above the motorway outside Italy?
It's a pity that we abandoned this design for newer rest areas.


----------



## mapman:cz

Brückenrasthaus Frankenwald: 
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/25347132
http://maps.google.c0m/?ll=50.40614...651,0.009645&t=k&z=17&vpsrc=6&brcurrent=5,0,1


----------



## Morsue

italystf said:


> *Are there any rest area above the motorway outside Italy?*
> It's a pity that we abandoned this design for newer rest areas.


There are several on the Spanish AP-7.


----------



## Norsko

E 18, Vestfold, Norway.


----------



## Spookvlieger

italystf said:


> Are there any rest area above the motorway outside Italy?
> It's a pity that we abandoned this design for newer rest areas.


Belgium has lots of these restaurants.(they are all butt ugly overhere) There is also one in The Netherlands. Autogrill seems to have lots of these resaturants around the world.


















http://static.destinia.com/imglib/hotelfotos/g/168/168720_013.jpg









http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4012/4414075243_2db31bbf92.jpg









http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/32490870.jpg









http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/54831998.jpg









http://www.globalview.be/pictures/big/A_23725.jpg


----------



## Penn's Woods

italystf said:


> Are there any rest area above the motorway outside Italy?
> It's a pity that we abandoned this design for newer rest areas.


The so-called Oases on the Illinois tollway system (around Chicago, basically). I was out there a few months ago; they're pretty cool. (As cool as a service area can be....)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Tollway_oasis


----------



## pt640

bogdymol said:


> Main road 4 between the city-center and Ferihegy airport?


yes


----------



## häggblom

The two I know about of in Sweden, both built in the 80´s though, so not very old. 

Gävle.









Nyköping. I think this one looks a bit ragged...


----------



## phiberoptik

And one in Croatia, on Zagreb bypass


----------



## bogdymol

I always wanted to visit one rest area that is constructed like the ones you guys posted above. Unfortunatelly I couldn't find on on my roads...  And I don't remember that one from Zagreb bypass... I see that I missed it...


----------



## x-type

^^ it is only closed pedestrian overpass. restaurants and bars are at the sides.

my favourite (and one of the best service areas i have visited) is Lançon en Provence, France. i have found only this photo:










wonderful tarte au framboises!


----------



## Chilio

Few pictures of the construction of Bebresh viaduct on Bulgarian A2 in the early 80ies:


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> Are you sure? Slovenia exports many Renaults nowadays.


i am not sure actually, but i doubt that they have been exporting French cars. 
i also know that Revoz is one of the most important Renault's factories


----------



## dubart

x-type said:


> they were produced in Sarajevo. other western cars produced in YU: Opel Kadett in Serbia (Kikinda), Renault 4 and 5 in Slovenia (Novo mesto)


I think Citroëns were also manufactured in ex Yugoslavia (Cimos Citroën): http://www.citroenet.org.uk/foreign/jugoslavija/cimos.html

Revoz built Renault 12, 16 and 18 as well.
_At the beginning of 1973, a cooperation agreement was signed with Renault and the production of the Renault 4 was started. During this period, a limited number of Renault 12, Renault 16 and Renault 18s were assembled as well._
source: http://www.revoz.si/en/inside.cp2?cid=50A1DC36-A564-8F6D-AAEF-BB43A84AB644&linkid=inside

TAS (Sarajevo) built the Beetle, Golf I, Golf II, not sure about Jettas but I remember Jettas with TAS logo


----------



## Chilio

Some archive video of the construction of A1 Trakiya (stretches from Sofia towards Plovdiv, including inauguration ceremony of the tunnel at Trayanovi vrata in 1982):

http://vbox7.com/play:7d6cf14b74


----------



## cougar1989

A10.de Berliner Ring Schönefelder Kreuz 
DDR-Times








Today


----------



## Luki_SL

^^The photo is taken in late 80s


----------



## Spookvlieger

Belgian E25; 1986









http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/5713561.jpg


Brussels R0, interchange Zaventem (Brussels airport), somewhere in the 70ties









http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp89/Wimpie25/diegem_interchange_hres.jpg




Somwhere late 80ties or early 90ties

E25


















https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-...GhaE/s912/B_A4_south_8_DSCF31264_19900722.jpg









https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-...KDWw/s800/B_A4_south_9_DSCF31267_19900722.jpg

I think this machelen interchange Brussels R0 X A1 (E19)









https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-...LXncM/s912/B_R0_west_2_DSCF31268_19880725.jpg


----------



## Spookvlieger

*Belgium*

E40/A10 highway Brussels/ Ostend 1959










http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp89/Wimpie25/img047-1.jpg

Some tunnel in Brussels:









http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp89/Wimpie25/img046-1.jpg


Loncin (Liège) A1(E40) X A3(E42) x A26(E25)
somwhere in the 60ties?









http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3394/3444738667_2510879cd0_z.jpg?zz=1

N34, Knokke-Heist


----------



## italystf

cougar1989 said:


> A10.de Berliner Ring Schönefelder Kreuz
> DDR-Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Today


I didn't expect they signposted E-routes in the DDR.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^All communist countries in Eastern Europe signposted E-routes, these roads didn`t have own country numbering.


----------



## italystf

*I decided to post a series of googled pics about the former East Germany. I think they're interesting beceause nowaday we think of Germany as a rich and powerful country and it's difficult imagining that until recently part of it was a very underdeveloped and oppressive country. Not many regions in the world changed so much in few years.*



















Last exit in the GDR









GDR rest area









GFR-GDR border in the 70s









Original Reichautobahn













































The famous Check Point Charlie









The following pics are taken in 1992, after reunification. Nothing changed since those autobahnnen were built in the 30s.




























Falling of the wall. 9 November 1989
Pics taken from http://www.grahnert.de/grenzstempel/ddr-foto/foto89-1.htm


















































































DDR border stone









Old Kingdom of Prussia border stone









Wall along Elba river near Sparnberg to prevent people escaping to west by swim or boat. Pic taken from the Federal Republic.









Before the wall collapsed Hungary opened its border with Austria. East Germans could reach Western Germany through Czechoslovakia, Hungary and Austria.


















http://en.1989-2009.at/?story=10

This building in Philipstal was cut in two by the border. The border was where the asphalt change (the road is managed by different lander now).









The border wasn't fortified in 1950. They fortified it later when Eastern Germany started to lose population.


----------



## devo

Wonderful pictures!


----------



## Zagor666

devo said:


> Wonderful pictures!


Absolutely,i miss the days with waiting on border crossings and changing money :cheers:


----------



## piotr71

I think this pic has been taken in Western Germany. It shows West German who is wondering where the cities on the board actually are  He is a litlle fed up because none of them can't be found on his map of Germany anymore.


>


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ You can still take such photos in Belgium  I've seen truckers stop near signs to read the map.


----------



## NordikNerd

I also miss the GDR. I travelled with bus on the motorways in the GDR in 1987. They were almost empty, only an occasional Trabbi passing by, it was a strange experience.


----------



## x-type

people, don't be such fools. it is easy to say that you miss GDR when you have not experienced life in such a country.

@chris: you can see such situations in Italy in front of their confusing signs with 30 destinations


----------



## keber

It is interesting that signage of west and east Germany was almost equal.


----------



## riiga

The Swedish television archive has a clip about going on holiday (by car) in the GDR, recorded in 1985. It can be found here: http://www.svtplay.se/klipp/159163/reportage-fran-ddr or on Youtube:


----------



## g.spinoza

They also wanted to make sure everyone knows that Berlin is "Hauptstadt der DDR"... no East Berlin but the whole thing


----------



## Stainless

Satyricon84 said:


> San Francisco 1957


Looks like some sort of testing ground. That is quite an incline even for San Francisco!


----------



## Satyricon84

Circa 1954, I don't know the location. Maybe California?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Looks like the Hollywood Freeway:

http://goo.gl/maps/qITzK


----------



## Satyricon84

^^ I think you're right

Here some pics of truckstops in the USA


----------



## Satyricon84

Orange County, Harbour Blvd, 1963


----------



## poshbakerloo

Well motorway photos from England won't be that historic as the first didn't open until 1958!

This isn't a motorway although it was later proposed to become one!

Its Hanger Lane in the 50s whilst being widened!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Is there a particular reason why the British motorway network developed one to two decades later than in other industrialized countries? The Netherlands already realized one sixth of its motorway network by 1958.


----------



## piotr71

poshbakerloo said:


> (..)This isn't a motorway although it was later proposed to become one!
> 
> Its Hanger Lane in the 50s whilst being widened!(..)


However, this stretch of Hanger Lane (part of A406 and North Circular) looks very motorway-ish currently.


----------



## Satyricon84

New York, 1936


----------



## häggblom

Cool pic´s from the States! Some of them really got a feeling to them!

Here´s an nice, old aerial over the city motorway (national route 40) through the town of Borås, not far from Gothenburg, Sweden.
From the 1960´s I would guess?


----------



## ed110220

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is there a particular reason why the British motorway network developed one to two decades later than in other industrialized countries? The Netherlands already realized one sixth of its motorway network by 1958.


Interesting question. Obviously Britain was disrupted and impoverished by two world wars which can explain why developments were later than the USA, but that doesn't explain being later than the Netherlands.


----------



## MattiG

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is there a particular reason why the British motorway network developed one to two decades later than in other industrialized countries? The Netherlands already realized one sixth of its motorway network by 1958.


They want to keep the reputation to be the biggest outdoor museum in the world.


----------



## sotonsteve

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is there a particular reason why the British motorway network developed one to two decades later than in other industrialized countries? The Netherlands already realized one sixth of its motorway network by 1958.


Lots of reasons, but basically all boils down to us being a retarded nation that somehow thinks a country can remain highly developed without continued investment in infrastructure.

The motorway near me was first planned in the 1930s, but not as a motorway, just as a high standard divided highway with at-grade junctions. Unfortunately, the eastern section of the road was open or under construction at the time they decided the new road should be a motorway as late as 1968. The sections that were planned, built and opened as motorway have required little improvement over the years, as they were built properly in the first place. However, the sections that were built before this decision was made, and at a time when the planners did not seem to know what they wanted, required upgrading shortly after opening, and after all that extra investment remain the worst parts of the road and still non-motorway. The non-motorway part of the road is probably about 8km in length. One section opened in 1965, then another bit opened in 1968, and another bit opened in 1970. Then in 1973 they grade separated a junction linking the 1968 and 1970 built sections, in 1979 the junction linking the 1965 and 1968 built sections got grade separated, and in 1980 the 1968 and 1970 built sections were widened by 50-100%. Then in 1985 a junction on the 1965 built section was grade separated. The end result was around 17 years of almost continuous roadworks on a brand new road so that improvements could take place. Meanwhile, the bits that opened as motorway as early as 1975 are perfectly fine to this day.

The moral of the story is to design and build the road properly in the first place, to build the road to a high enough standard at the start rather than building a road that, as a result of cheap, low standard design, will become congested straight after opening.


----------



## Road_UK

Even today, the infrastructure in the UK is a lot to be desired for, even though widening takes place in the worst areas. But the M1 from London to Leeds passes through some of the major city's in the UK, making it a very busy motorway, with little alternatives. Also, the UK could be doing with more east-west links. North of London, there is not much choice, apart from a very busy dual carriageway called the A14, which functions as a trunk road for freight between the ports of Harwich and Felixstowe, and a even more busy M62, which almost guarantees congestion in the Leeds area. Traveling from Norfolk and Suffolk to Derbyshire is a major nightmare. You either have to drop down to the A14, which is a long way round, or use the same amount of time to put up with single carriageways and roundabouts.


----------



## italystf

Trieste, 1971

Viale XX Settembre (now pedestrian)









Piazza della Borsa









Via Giosuè Carducci









Verona, 1971
Those signs were abolished with the new highway code in 1992


















Padova, 1971
Another road sign that doesn't exist anymore









Milan, 1972

Central Station









Piazzale Loreto



























Strada senza uscita = cul de sac
another disappeared sign


















Monza, 1973




































Apecars Piaggio were the most popular mean of transport for every kind of goods back in those years.


----------



## Verso

^^ The yellow car.


----------



## verreme

^^ In Spain we used the same font for directional signage, and also that "give way" sign with the word "Stop" on it. There are some of them left.


----------



## Verso

^^ That wasn't a simple give way sign, it was actually a stop sign.


----------



## Tego

Somewhere in Pamporovo Ski Resort, Bulgaria (1960's):











A gas station near Pravets, Bulgaria (1960's):











Downtown Sofia, Bulgaria (circa 1905):











Downtown Sofia, Bulgaria (late 1920's):











Downtown Sofia, Bulgaria (1930's):











Downtown Sofia, Bulgaria (early 1940's):











Downtown Sofia, Bulgaria (1950's):











Downtown Sofia, Bulgaria (1960's):











Downtown Sofia, Bulgaria (1970's):











Downtown Sofia, Bulgaria (late 1970's):











Downtown Sofia, Bulgaria (1980's):











An ad from 1968 of cars made in Bulgaria:


----------



## piotr71

Verso said:


> ^^ That wasn't a simple give way sign, it was actually a stop sign.


That's true. I still can remember some of them. It had been used in Poland until 1983 and then, the shape was transformed to the currently used octagonal sign. The new sign was widely commented within all adults I knew and some of my colleagues back then. 



Tego said:


> An ad from 1968 of cars made in Bulgaria:


I was not aware that Fiat 850 was built in Bulgaria. I always thought it was imported to Poland from Yugoslavija as Zastavas were.


----------



## ed110220

A few more from Etienne du Plessis on Flickr











Settlers Way in Cape Town immediately before its opening on 8 December 1961.










Newly opened N2 next to Athlone Powerstation, 1962.










N2 and Athlone Powerstation both under construction, c1961.










Lincoln Street bridge over what is now the N1, c1955 (present bridge is a replacement).


----------



## keber

Font on traffic signs looks to be the same as today, so it lives already over 50 years.


----------



## ed110220

keber said:


> Font on traffic signs looks to be the same as today, so it lives already over 50 years.


It does look like the DIN-type font that is still used, but the sign itself looks more like the 'wonky' arrow British motorway signs of the same time.


----------



## veteran

Font in the second picture seems to be AWNB (based on FHWA).


----------



## aswnl

FHWA Interstate is the name of what has been designed by the American Bureau of Public Roads (BPR) as the font "Highway Gothic". This font had 6 classes, series A, B, C, D, E and F. Series A had extremely small letters. In the USA this font had been used with spikes, to make it better visible by night. That font was called BPR-E(M): series E(Modified). The modification was succesfull, and many other countries adopted the E(M) font. The ANWB-Ee Veteran refers to is also an adaptation of the BPR-E(M) font. The sign shown above in SA ("Langa", "N2") also is in E(M). There's really nothing DIN about it...


----------



## 1+1=3

First section of D1 near Prague in 1971 before opening







.









early 70's







.









1973









yellow stripes were abandonen in 1973 according to Convention on Road Signs and Signals









70's









early 80's - middle crash barriers were added







.


----------



## veteran

New 2+2 road Košice-Budimír (D1 motorway feeder), Czechoslovakia, 1989-1990. All photos are from this junction - opened on 17th November 1989.


----------



## veteran

Border crossing Hraničná pri Hornáde (Czechoslovakia; now Milhosť, Slovakia) - Tornyosnémeti (Hungary), 1988. New checkpoint building on Czechoslovak side (opened in 1986).











Border between Czechoslovakia and Hungary (Milhosť-Tornyosnémeti), early 1920es. Picture from Hungarian side, there's a railway crossing on today's road 3040 (before 2004 it was road 3).


----------



## piotr71

Stunning photos!


----------



## RV

How comes Czechoslovakia had a such advanced level of infrastructured compared to other socialist countries, for example the 300-million inhabitant USSR?


----------



## veteran

*Expressway Košice-Šaca*. First road in Eastern Slovakia (maybe not only Eastern ) with grade-separated junctions. Built in 1961-1962.

Tram overpass in Pereš. Street view.









Junction Šaca. Street view.


----------



## veteran

*Košice-Budimír* expressway (1986-1992), D1 motorway feeder, Czechoslovakia.

Street view for compare.










Street view for compare.


----------



## amst

I have just stumbled upon a clip from youtube where a french reporter drives through Romania in 1990. Here are some captions at the end of Pitesti - Bucuresti motorway 23 years ago:



















source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCs7blXsFQY

Unfortunately clear photos from the motorway during Ceausescu times are virtually impossible to find :bash: I sure would have wanted to compare to those from CZ or SK...


----------



## Verso

^^


----------



## amst

No! That is from around 10 years ago!


----------



## italystf

This was posted on SSC a while ago by the user Bodgymol
A1 in Romania, 1982


----------



## 1+1=3

RV said:


> How comes Czechoslovakia had a such advanced level of infrastructured compared to other socialist countries, for example the 300-million inhabitant USSR?


I wouldn't say it was more advanced than in say Hungary or GDR (with many of motorway routes dating back to 30's) or Yugoslavia (which is of course bit different case), I believe in the USSR near big cities there were motorways (or ring roads) built from 60's on as well.
Regarding Czechoslovakia, in the 50's after the cold war started the living standards were declining quite rapidly because of the focus on heavy industry and military (30% of GDP went into military), so the individual transport was quite low, only from early 60's number of cars was rising again and I believe this was the case for the whole socialist bloc. It was lagging behind western europe and in late 80's it finally collapsed.


----------



## Moravian

I had browsed my pc and found out some sad pictures mostly focused on destroyed infrastructure in Serbia (former "smaller" Yugoslavia) during NATO bombing campaign in 1999:


----------



## Moravian

One of the key infrastructure target were the Danube bridges.....


----------



## italystf

A thing that many people ignore is that, while Croatia became indipendent in 1991 and stayed in peace since 1995, its easternmost area (around Vukovar) became part of HR only in 1998. Before, it was a sort of indipendent territory claimed by Jugoslavia, similar to the tiny Free Territory of Trieste (1947-54).
------------------------------------------------------------------------

There were already motorways in the Soviet Union. Just search "Baltic Way" on Google images.


----------



## volodaaaa

italystf said:


>











:lol:


----------



## Xmaster

^^ Nice comparison 
It is a fragment of A2 motorway Vilnius Panevėžys in 1989.

Here is a better qualitty picture, however with some commercials on it:
http://www.zuzimuzika.lt/cms/dd6209c69c1e0fb6a0d3cbd540d568ea.jpg


----------



## 1+1=3

Three more from D1 from the 70-80's

Near Průhonice before opening in 1971









Near Slavníč - police patrol









Near Pávov


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You still see those "third lane exit lane" in Romania. I don't recall seeing it in the Czech Republic.


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> You still see those "third lane exit lane" in Romania.


Can you post a photo? I can't remember seeing that on Romanian motorways.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW9BQ18ZPvs&feature=player_detailpage#t=38s

Check it out


----------



## x-type

italystf said:


> A thing that many people ignore is that, while Croatia became indipendent in 1991 and stayed in peace since 1995, its easternmost area (around Vukovar) became part of HR only in 1998. Before, it was a sort of indipendent territory claimed by Jugoslavia, similar to the tiny Free Territory of Trieste (1947-54).


no. the war lasted from 1990 till 1995 (officially till 1998). so how could there be peace in that period, especially in occuppied areas? and it was not only easternmost area that was occupied, it was more like this.
sorry for offtopic.


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> You still see those "third lane exit lane" in Romania. I don't recall seeing it in the Czech Republic.


I know one place in Slovenia with it, too


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW9BQ18ZPvs&feature=player_detailpage#t=38s
> 
> Check it out


That's a new motorway. I'm quite surprised to see that, I guess I didn't pay attention before.



x-type said:


> I know one place in Slovenia with it, too


That's just because of the slope, it's the same here. And here it's because of an exit shortly behind it (but it's the only such case, although there're many exits on H3 as well).


----------



## VITORIA MAN

tenerife island (E)


----------



## VITORIA MAN

barcelona 








1970








1968


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> That's a new motorway. I'm quite surprised to see that, I guess I didn't pay attention before.
> 
> That's just because of the slope, it's the same here.


but this one has more or less proper exit ramp (4th lane). same thing is at exit Črni Kal northbound 
I have put Gabrk on purpose because there is actually no proper exit ramp (unless we consider slow lane as exit lane, too)


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> but this one has more or less proper exit ramp (4th lane). same thing is at exit Črni Kal northbound
> I have put Gabrk on purpose because there is actually no proper exit ramp (unless we consider slow lane as exit lane, too)


I don't see much problem with that, because the lane is slow anyway. But I definitely see a problem when a slow lane continues to form an acceleration lane (without a 4th lane) and I think the Logatec interchange used to be like that (they reconstructed it a few years ago, I guess they added the 4th lane then).


----------



## Corvinus

1+1=3 said:


> Three more from D1 from the 70-80's
> Near Slavníč - police patrol


The Czechoslovak VB Lada ... exactly like in the Bond movie 



VITORIA MAN said:


> tenerife island (E)


From when?


----------



## italystf

x-type said:


> no. the war lasted from 1990 till 1995 (officially till 1998). so how could there be peace in that period, especially in occuppied areas? and it was not only easternmost area that was occupied, it was more like this.
> sorry for offtopic.


I though that the rest of Kraijna (inner Dalmatia, around Knin) was integrated into HR already in 1995 and only Eastern Slavonia was left out until 1998.
How road infrastrutures were affected by Yugolavian wars and what borders were closed?


----------



## carlesnuc

VITORIA MAN said:


> barcelona 1970


is badalona near barcelona, on the right is where I lived


----------



## x-type

italystf said:


> I though that the rest of Kraijna (inner Dalmatia, around Knin) was integrated into HR already in 1995 and only Eastern Slavonia was left out until 1998.
> How road infrastrutures were affected by Yugolavian wars and what borders were closed?


actually, you are right. i read something wrongly there in your post. yes, southern part of occupied area was returned to HR in 1995 with military actions, and easternmost part including Vukovar was peacfuly reintegrated in 1998.


----------



## RV

http://dev.hel.fi/ilmakuvat/#18/60.16786/24.95129

Aerial photos from Helsinki area from 1943, 1964, 1976 and 1988!
I was really astonished of the fact that Helsinki looked like some eastern-block city as little ago as 1988!


----------



## bozenBDJ

Source > http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=51782801&postcount=4408

Jakarta - Indonesia highways in the [early?] 1990s :









Semanggi









H.I. Boulevard


----------



## bozenBDJ

Source > http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=51880913&postcount=4415

Jakarta - Indonesia highways in the [early?] 1990s :









Cawang Intersection









Semanggi Intersection


----------



## bozenBDJ

Source > http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=51881299&postcount=4417

Jakarta - Indonesia highways in the [early?] 1990s :









Semanggi Intersection


----------



## italystf

The official FB page of Autostrade per L'Italia is full of old photos of motorway (unfortunately only those managed by that company). Let's post some.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.318745664890884.70486.309812879117496&type=3

Filming a movie on Florence toll booth on A1, 1962









Autogrill, 1959









Installing guard rails, 1967









Electronic VMS weren't invented in the 1960s









Building the A1 near Incisa, 1964









A1 bridge on Tevere river, 1976









Monte Quercino tunnel on the A9, 1971









A1 Milan - Bologna, 1959









Biscione Viaduct U/C on A1 Bologna - Florence, 1959









A14 Pescara - Vasto U/C, 1967









A1 near Milan U/C, 1957









Building the Tevere bridge on A1 Florence - Rome, 1963









A4 near Sesto San Giovanni, 1960s









A1 U/C near Naples, 1958









Building the A5 Aosta - Mont Blanc









Baccheraia Viaduct (A1 Bologna - Florence) U/C in 1958









First two sections of A1 opened in 1958: Milan - Piacenza Nord and Piacenza Sud - Parma









Early gas station on the A1









Cantagallo rest area (A1 Bologna - Florence), 1973









Old toll booth









Viaduct over Nera river on A1 near Orte, 1971









Opening ceremony of the A1 Bologna - Florence, 1960









Building the A1 bridge over Arno river, 1963


----------



## VITORIA MAN

good pics


----------



## italystf

A6 Turin - Savona before duplication









Sandbed for the A1 near Milan, 1957









One of the first SOS posts, 1961









A12 Rome - Civitavecchia (then A16), 1967









End of A12 in Civitavecchia, 1967









A12-A91 junction in Rome U/C, 1967









Mottagrill on rest area "Somaglia ovest", A1 near Piacenza, 1959









A1 Milan - Bologna somewhere









Opening of the first gas station on A1, 1959








Scene of the movie "La Bella di Lodi" filmed in an autogrill, 1963









A16, then A17 Naples - Bari, 1966









Mohammad Reza Pahlavi visiting Italy (here Firenze nord, A1) in 1964

















A1 Capua - Naples, 1959

















Earthworks for the A1 (then A2) Capua - Naples, late 1950s









A1 works near Marcianise, late 1950s









A9 - Swiss border









A1 Bologna - Florence, 1967


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## italystf

Roadworks A1 Capua - Naples, 1958









Goccioloni I viaduct U/C, A1 Bologna - Florence, 1959









Vostok (Yuri Gagarin space ship) transiting on the A1 Naples - Rome for an exibition in Rome, 1968









Bari Nord toll booth on A14, 1966









A14 near Bitonto (uscita=exit), 1966









A14 near Bari, with the famous "trulli" on the right, 1966









Bari toll booth, 1973


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## Corvinus

italystf said:


> End of A12 in Civitavecchia, 1967


lol'd at "Wegegeld" translation for German (linguistically, it's absolutely correct but appears very unusual compared to the omnipresent "Maut" or "Gebühr" terms)


----------



## italystf

Corvinus said:


> lol'd at "Wegegeld" translation for German (linguistically, it's absolutely correct but appears very unusual compared to the omnipresent "Maut" or "Gebühr" terms)


Indeed now they use Autobahngebühr.
https://maps.google.it/maps?q=Mestr...6WZcxovofxwuDvKp_DkPrA&cbp=12,264.88,,0,-0.27


----------



## Autobahn-mann

italystf said:


> A1 Milan - Bologna, 1959


 The photos was "touched up" (modified), because the signs says: "decade of the truck driver" maybe this image was used as cover of a pamplet, or some as similar


----------



## Corvinus

1999 Hungarian information about the (1997-introduced) Austrian motorway toll sticker


----------



## bogdymol

The Austrian autobahn network looks pretty much the same as today. Didn't they build anything new since?


----------



## keber

Just around Wien (like parts of S1 and A5 and completed A6), also some tunnels got another tube, which is costly enough, and some widenings.


----------



## Wiener.Blut

*Gastarbeiterroute*
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastarbeiterroute

google translated 


> Foreign route is created in the 1970s colloquial name for the former European Route 5 (E5) *between Munich and Istanbul respectively Thessaloniki* . These were the preferred road trip route from South-East European migrant workers in their home countries to holiday periods.
> 
> On this route attended from about 1970 foreign flows mainly at the start of the summer holidays, Christmas and Easter for chaos especially on the Austrian and Yugoslav roads that were not designed for the transit time of each around two million people within a few days. The guest workers route led through many villages and towns close; bypasses and motorway expansion were mostly still in the planning stage. For many years, recorded the track enormous traffic jams and high accident victims.











_Red / Green: host countries and foreign countries_ 

Spielfeld - 70s border between Yugoslavia and Austria










south of Graz 










Austrian part


----------



## Wiener.Blut

One of the most dangerous parts 

Leoben - Asutria










For every accident victim at the Leoben bypass a cross was erected at the accident site - this should serve as a warrning to drivers. The photos date from the year 1970.


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## Wiener.Blut

Driveway to the Tunnel called Massenbergtunnel towards Yugoslavia in the 1970s. 



















Tunnel (photo from 1965)
south portal


















north portal


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## Wiener.Blut

The majority of "Gastarbeiter" (guest worker) were / are from Turkey, so some signs in Turkish were placed along route

This sign contains the reference to t 62 deaths and 178 serious injuries on the Leoben ring road.



















another warning signs along the route in Austria


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## Wiener.Blut

Signs in Serbo-croatian and Turkish










I think somewhere in Yugoslavia (Elan was Yugoslavian ski equipment producer) 










faces 



> As Türkan Kanbicak for the first time made ​​the trip from Fulda to Istanbul with his family in 1972, the car ride was only alternative. He recalled with a laugh: "The whole route was full of Turks - no one knew the way."


----------



## Wiener.Blut

The European Route 5 the preferred route of South Eastern European guest workers was already quite well built in Germany. In Austria and Yugoslavia the road condition later also changed drastically.

traffic jam Germany, 70km long, waiting time 30 hours










"Typical" car of Turkish Gastarbeiter from 70s



















after 3000km finally home


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## Wiener.Blut

More than 5,000 accidents were recorded annually by the authorities along the 330km long migrant workers route through Austria. 



















Yugoslavia


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## volodaaaa

Gosh, that signs showing death are scary.


----------



## Wiener.Blut




----------



## Wiener.Blut

Belgrade


----------



## Wiener.Blut

Building Autoput 1948


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## italystf

Wiener.Blut said:


>


Why Germany has pre-1938 borders here?


----------



## italystf

Very interesting report, thanks.
I wonder why Austria didn't built motorways until the late 1970s, while most European countries started well before.
It's very weird for us today to see all those classic cars overloaded with luggage. Aparently it was common in the past to carry stuff on car's roof because most cars had a small trunk. I didn't expected that road travel was so deadly beck them, probably because of a mixture of unsafe vehicles (compared to modern ones), bad roads and lax traffic rules enforcement.
It's also interesting to see how a such large group of migrants with a different cultural and religious background managed to integrate in the European society, much better than what happens with immigrants today.


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## volodaaaa

Wiener.Blut said:


> Belgrade


Interesting direction signs. When did Serbia change it?


----------



## Alex_ZR

volodaaaa said:


> Interesting direction signs. When did Serbia change it?


I would say Yugoslavia, we switched from blue to yellow signs in 1980s. You can find somewhere even today old blue signs from 1970s, usualy on a blue-white poles. This one still stands in Zrenjanin:


----------



## KIWIKAAS

italystf said:


> Very interesting report, thanks.
> I wonder why Austria didn't built motorways until the late 1970s, while most European countries started well before.


What? 

As far as I know, Austria has had autobahns since that late 1930s


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There were only two short stretches near Salzburg, built as German Reichsautobahn. Austria started building motorways from 1960 onward.


----------



## Wiener.Blut

italystf said:


> Very interesting report, thanks.
> I wonder why Austria didn't built motorways until the late 1970s, while most European countries started well before.


Well Austria is not exactly Denmark or Netherlands, there are mountains here. Also another routes were priority "Drang nach Osten" heheh


----------



## KIWIKAAS

ChrisZwolle said:


> There were only two short stretches near Salzburg, built as German Reichsautobahn. Austria started building motorways from 1960 onward.


1960 is a bit different to late 70s though


----------



## Wiener.Blut

KIWIKAAS said:


> 1960 is a bit different to late 70s though


So called West Autobahn (A1) was the first motorway, or Autobahn, to be built in Austria, originating from plans drawn up for the so-called Reichsautobahn system. It was built in period 1958 - 1967.


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> I wonder why Austria didn't built motorways until the late 1970s, while most European countries started well before.


Most of Austria doesn't look like pianura friulana.


----------



## Wiener.Blut

^^










Only about a quarter of Austria can be considered low lying, and only 32% of the country is below 500 metres. Vienna is 4% and only 16,59% is arable land.
35 mountains are above 3500m.


----------



## italystf

Wiener.Blut said:


> making fun of the state of Austrian roads


And now everybody see Austria as very orderly...


----------



## riiga

italystf said:


> And now everybody see Austria as very orderly...


Apart from their road signage... :lol:


----------



## volodaaaa

IMHO, Austria with its infrastructure is the last country to making fun of :lol:


----------



## Autobahn-mann

italystf said:


> Why Germany has pre-1938 borders here?


Didn't have pre-'38 borders, it's divided between West and East... the borded of former German territory east of Oder-Neisser linie is becuase at the time it was believed than that territory was only occupied from Poland, not annexed and they (the Germans) think that returned when the cold war will finished.... (unfortunately wasn't real).

Also in Italy was the same, at the end of WW2 was created the Free Territory of Trieste that included the actual province of Trieste plus some Italian inhabitans of actual Slovenia and Istria... until 1953-54 Italy believed that at the end of anglo-american occupation will return to Italy, instead was not defined and was invaded both from Italy and Yugoslavia and the actual border was defined in 1975...


----------



## volodaaaa

Autobahn-mann said:


> Didn't have pre-'38 borders, it's divided between West and East... the borded of former German territory east of Oder-Neisser linie is becuase at the time it was believed than that territory was only occupied from Poland, not annexed and they (the Germans) think that returned when the cold war will finished.... (unfortunately wasn't real).
> 
> Also in Italy was the same, at the end of WW2 was created the Free Territory of Trieste that included the actual province of Trieste plus some Italian inhabitans of actual Slovenia and Istria... until 1953-54 Italy believed that at the end of anglo-american occupation will return to Italy, instead was not defined and was invaded both from Italy and Yugoslavia and the actual border was defined in 1975...


Sorry for a spicy question, but is there any German rejoin movement to in western Poland?


----------



## Autobahn-mann

volodaaaa said:


> Sorry for a spicy question, but is there any German rejoin movement to in western Poland?


 Both actually than at there time, there wasn't a rejoin movement in that part of Poland because was inhabited by refugees who arrived from annexed territories of Soviet Union...
In Germany, I think that maybe there is a German rejoin movement... it's understood that the NPD was them back with any discussion  he he
but I don't know not-extremistic movement that want to re-joined...

The pangerman question is delicate...


----------



## italystf

Autobahn-mann said:


> Also in Italy was the same, at the end of WW2 was created the Free Territory of Trieste that included the actual province of Trieste plus some Italian inhabitans of actual Slovenia and Istria... until 1953-54 Italy believed that at the end of anglo-american occupation will return to Italy, instead was not defined and was invaded both from Italy and Yugoslavia and the actual border was defined in 1975...


The B zone was not occupied by Anglo-Americans but by Yugoslavs. The current border (actual has a different meaning in English) was defined already in 1954 with the London Memorandum. The A-zone (Italian) lost few sq km in favour of Yugoslavia.
With the 1975 Osimo treaty Italy and Yugoslavia renounced to further territorial claims against each other but this treaty didn't affected borders (nor it affected everyday life since those lands were already fully integrated in Italy and Yugoslavia).



Autobahn-mann said:


> Both actually than at there time, there wasn't a rejoin movement in that part of Poland because was inhabited by refugees who arrived from annexed territories of Soviet Union...
> In Germany, I think that maybe there is a German rejoin movement... it's understood that the NPD was them back with any discussion  he he
> but I don't know not-extremistic movement that want to re-joined...
> 
> The pangerman question is delicate...


I think that Silesia, Pomerania and East Prussia are for Gemans like Istria, Fiume and Zara for Italians. Those territory had strong historical connection with Germany\Italy but since WWII the German\Italian presence it's marginal, replaced respectively with Poles\Russians and Slovenes\Croats.
There are far-right movements that still claim a "greater Germany" or "greater Italy" but this is very anachronistic in the XXI century European socio-political context.


----------



## Wiener.Blut

Boundary between the Free Territory of Trieste (Duino-Aurisina / Devin-Nabrežina) and Italy (Monfalcone).


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## volodaaaa

Are there still some artefacts from border checks? (e.g. booths etc)


----------



## friedrichstrasse

Wiener.Blut said:


> Trieste border area between A and B
> 
> ...
> 
> Boundary between the Free Territory of Trieste (Duino-Aurisina / Devin-Nabrežina) and Italy (Monfalcone).
> 
> ...


No, both of them refers to the same border, between TLT (Zone A) and Italy, near Monfalcone.


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## Wiener.Blut

corrected


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## italystf

^^White plates are from TLT, black ones are Italian.


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## keber

volodaaaa said:


> Are there still some artefacts from border checks? (e.g. booths etc)


It appears that above border crossing was in this area
https://maps.google.com/?ll=45.7934...0CVTkel_3ohHTkn6gI1o-g&cbp=12,349.29,,0,-6.44

And another one here:
https://maps.google.com/?ll=45.7943...WTBrzieOEavfu-A4pPk5UQ&cbp=12,340.14,,0,-2.63

Those are only two roads connecting Italy and TLT (apart from A4 motorway which was built decades later)


----------



## friedrichstrasse

That's correct, but I can't find those rocks...

EDIT: Maybe here? There's an abandoned place on the right...


----------



## Verso

friedrichstrasse said:


> That's correct, but I can't find those rocks...


Umm, they're right there in the first link. There's also some old pavement on the right. Also this.


----------



## x-type

Wiener.Blut said:


>


today's view of the same place


----------



## Puležan

volodaaaa said:


> Interesting direction signs. When did Serbia change it?





Alex_ZR said:


> I would say Yugoslavia, we switched from blue to yellow signs in 1980s. You can find somewhere even today old blue signs from 1970s, usualy on a blue-white poles. This one still stands in Zrenjanin:
> 
> http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/87911542.jpg


There are also some old blue signs in Croatia, as remnants from last times 

eastern exit from Zagreb (former Autoput)

near Zabok

Zagreb, Slavonska av. (former Autoput)

Veprinac exit on B8 - this sign is even older from the previous ones, because it has capital letters. The sign is from 1980/81, when the road was built. Still, this one should be blue even today, because it's on expressway


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## italystf

This one may be the former border plaza on the SS14
https://maps.google.com/?ll=45.7951...KXZ58wJxzAbDvJfnJQ&cbp=12,70.85,,0,14.16&z=19

Could this one being the former TLT-YU border?
https://maps.google.com/?ll=45.3161...OWsMlMNri5tahSEcKw&cbp=12,76.48,,0,22.11&z=15


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## friedrichstrasse

Did a border between TLT (zone B) and YU really exist? I thought that zone B was de-facto part of Yugoslavia!


----------



## italystf

friedrichstrasse said:


> Did a border between TLT (zone B) and YU really exist? I thought that zone B was de-facto part of Yugoslavia!


Don't know, I asked to Croatian forumers. But initially the B zone used its own currency and not the Yugoslav dinar (while the A zone used the Italian lira), so it probably wasn't entirely Yugoslav.
People crossing from A to B were forced to covert some "Italian lire" into the "Yugoslav lire" that were valid only in the B zone. So, the Yugoslav government got Western currency.


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## Wiener.Blut

^^i am not sure about that, because we can see here some stamps from FTT (STT -Serbo-croatian) they were YU stamps with only stamp on it STT and currency was dinar. 




























STT-VUJ(N)A meaning (Slobodna teritorija Trsta, vojna uprava Jugoslovenske (narodne) armije / Svobodni Tržaški Teritorji, Vojna Uprava Jugoslovenske (narodne) Armije = Free territory of Trieste, Military administration of Yugoslav (people's) Army) 


And stamps without Yugoslavia only STT-VUJ(N)A (Dinar currency) 










similar situation with Zone A










from 1946, before FTT was established.


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## volodaaaa

Czechoslovakia was established in 28.11.1918 during the existence of Austria - Hungary which ceased to exist in 11.11.1918. Some fights of Bratislava between Czechoslovak an Hungarian army therefore took place. Finally, the city was divided along the Danube. Small part / right riverbank (Petržalka - Ligetfalu) bacame a part of Hungary and the rest of Bratislava (left riverbank) became a part of Czechoslovakia. That situation remained to 1919 when right riverbank rejoined Bratislava. During that period, border checks were established on the only bridge (now Old Bridge- Stary most).
Photos:

Border between Czechoslovakia and Hungary: Notice the old unofficial coat-of-arms of CS at the top of the bridge.









Border between Czechoslovakia and Hungary: Italian soldiers ensuring the protection of borders on the border-check booth. Usage of that CoA









Border between Czechoslovakia and Hungary: Unofficial (Czecho-)Slovak flag and Hungarian flag waving on the bridge










After the First Vienna Award and Munich Agreement, the right Danube riverbank became a part of Third Reich. Hence, the border checks were re-established for period 1938 - 1945.

Border between Third Reich and First Slovak state: Note the coat-of-arms of Slovak state usage of which was prohibited during strongest years of communism.









The bridge was blown up by retreating German army and seriously damaged. At that time, it was only bridge in Bratislava and hence was quickly repaired. Due to very bad condition, it was closed in 2009 for private cars (except public transport) and in 2010 for public transport as well. During short period, pedestrians were restricted too, but they are currently allowed to cross the bridge. Bridge is now the object of discussion about its reconstruction. 









After the construction in 1890, the bridge was equipped by pair of toll houses changed to border houses in 1918-1919 and 1938-1945. Those houses are currently popular landmarks for "border freaks".

The one on the left riverbank become museum of borders:

The original sign with "first Slovak state" CoA and Colný Úrad/Zollamt/Douane writing from WW2 was re-installed there.



























The second one on the right riverbank is popular restaurant


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## MattiG

Helsinki western approach (road 51) in earlier days and currently.


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## MattiG

The current road 4/E75 of Finland in Lapland, 200 km north of the Arctic Circle.

The initial road in the year 1902, during the gold rush:










The current one:










(The road carries the name "Golden Route", as its sand base contains tiny gold fragments. It is assumed that the 30-km stretch from north of Vuotso contains several kilograms of gold.)


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## bozenBDJ

^^ So what about that gold? They keep them there?


----------



## italystf

Wiener.Blut said:


> Similar situation with Zone B
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> from 1946, before FTT was established.


The Zone A was the Italian.

On the second stamp, below the black ink, there's written "Repubblica Sociale Italiana", a puppet state comprehending North-West and central Italy, formally independent and ruled by Mussolini but de facto controlled by the Third Reich. It existed between september 1943 and april 1945 and it was recognized only by Axis countries.
The value of the stamp was increased from 0,30ITL to 1,30ITL beause of postwar hyperinflation.


----------



## italystf

SS1 "Via Aurelia" near Torrimpetra, north of Rome, likely 1950s-60s.









SS9 "Via Emilia" near Piacenza









The SS9 "Via Emilia" through Modena in 1949. Until 1959 (A1 opening) all traffic between Milan and Bologna passed there









Via Emilia in 1930s









Old photos of the Via Aurelia near Bordighera, Liguria
http://www.bordighera.net/vc_viaaurelia.htm


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## ChrisZwolle

Neither were motorways in today's sense though.


----------



## Penn's Woods

g.spinoza said:


> Nope. First one was Long Island Parkway, opened in 1908.


Or the Harlem River Driveway....

:cheers:


----------



## RV

West Side Elevated from 1929-1930 with it's 2x3 lanes was perhaps the first motorway-type?


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## Wiener.Blut

Border Austria - Yugoslavia 

1974









Loiblpaß / Ljubelj









During war in Yugoslavia (1991)


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## volodaaaa

I have not known Austria was afraid of being included in war^^


----------



## Wiener.Blut

volodaaaa said:


> I have not known Austria was afraid of being included in war^^


Off course it was, the borders were blocked, military was stationed on entire border. During the war in Yugoslavia military aeroplanes of Yugoslav army were violating Austrian airspace on daily basis, that is one of the main reasons Austria ordered Eurofighter aeroplanes.

Border crossing Bleiburg - Grablach on fire 27.6.1991 



















today










Border crossing



















border crossing Spielfeld










Border crossing Gornja Ragodna










Austrian side


----------



## Wiener.Blut

1988

On the road to Peloponnese / Greece





































Yugoslav Autoput


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## Wiener.Blut

Austria - Yugoslavia border 1951


----------



## Alex_ZR

^^ Video from 1987, recorded by Turkish _gasterbeiters_ somewhere in Serbia on their way from West Germany to Turkey.


----------



## Verso

^^ What did "L" stand for? Obviously not Leipzig.


----------



## Autobahn-mann

Why the Customs signs between A and YU was in German and French and not in German and Slovenian/Serb-Croatian?


----------



## Wiener.Blut

Autobahn-mann said:


> Why the Customs signs between A and YU was in German and French and not in German and Slovenian/Serb-Croatian?


French was/is used as "lingua franca" for road signs and German of course because it is Austria. In ex Yu french is still used.


----------



## NordikNerd

Verso said:


> ^^ What did "L" stand for? Obviously not Leipzig.


L was Lahn(Wetzlar﻿ + Giessen)


Driving on the E4 motorway, Sweden 1989 or 1990. The car I drove was a *1973 SAAB 96 V4*



Ahead of the blue Peugeot 505 you see a SIMCA 1503. Today it's a very rare vehicle.


----------



## Wiener.Blut

More photos of the border between Austria and Yugoslavia in 1991. 

mines 




























Gornja Ragodna on the other side










Spielfeld / Sentilj


----------



## Wiener.Blut

Lot of people from, former Yugoslavia especially from Gornja Ragodna came to Bad Radkersburg for shopping in 60s and 70s

Commercial from YU Newspaper about shopping city Bad Radkersburg










Bad Radkersburg / Gornja Ragodna 1969


----------



## Autobahn-mann

Wiener.Blut said:


> French was/is used as "lingua franca" for road signs and German of course because it is Austria. In ex Yu french is still used.


Very thanks! very interesting the sign in all the languages of former-YU!
I've been in SLO, HR and BiH (Croatian part) in 2007... I've seen that the French is also used, also then (I think) today is more used English as commercial/international Language...
Although it seems to me that in former YU there is more liking for German and Russian!


----------



## Wiener.Blut

Autobahn-mann said:


> Very thanks! very interesting the sign in all the languages of former-YU!
> I've been in SLO, HR and BiH (Croatian part) in 2007... I've seen that the French is also used, also then (I think) today is more used English as commercial/international Language...
> Although it seems to me that in former YU there is more *liking for German and Russian!*


I wouldn't say that, German maybe in border area with Austria and Russian nowhere, English has primacy.


----------



## bogdymol

What a changing world. 20 years ago there was the army protecting the border so that nobody crossed it... and now you can do your Sunday walk from one country to the other without beeing bothered by anyone.


----------



## VITORIA MAN

Wiener.Blut said:


> Off course it was, the borders were blocked, military was stationed on entire border. During the war in Yugoslavia military aeroplanes of Yugoslav army were violating Austrian airspace on daily basis, that is one of the main reasons Austria ordered Eurofighter aeroplanes.
> 
> Border crossing Bleiburg - Grablach on fire 27.6.1991
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Border crossing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> border crossing Spielfeld
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Border crossing Gornja Ragodna
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Austrian side


 austrian soldiers at the border ?
the reason ?


----------



## Verso

^^ The war on the other side of the border.



Wiener.Blut said:


> Gornja Ragodna


Gornja Ra*dgo*na :cheers:



bogdymol said:


> What a changing world. 20 years ago there was the army protecting the border so that nobody crossed it... and now you can do your Sunday walk from one country to the other without beeing bothered by anyone.


That wasn't the Iron Curtain... especially not in 1993.


----------



## Puležan

verreme said:


> ^^ Were these Fiat 132 made in former YU?





Alex_ZR said:


> No. Just Fiat 1300 as Zastava 1300.


It's not 1300, but 132, as verreme said 

Those Fiat/Zastava 132 models were made in Zagreb in period 1974-1981. Although considered as Zastava's product, they wore Fiat logo. The name of Zastava was only on the chassis plate.


----------



## Puležan

bozenBDJ said:


> That last picture/money-picture looks kind of sinister and socialist :dunno: .


Actually it's not money, but a bond. The state provided a public loan, so anyone could buy those bonds and with that money the tunnel was built. Later, people could cash that bonds, and the state paid them out in 2 equal installments (as written on the bond).

This public loan concept was very popular in ex-Yu for bigger infrastructure projects, such as tunnels, bridges, motorways. Usually the loans were locally/regionally oriented, as you can see on this one, because Istra and Rijeka region were the most interested in building Učka tunnel.

For the end, the giant depicted on the bond is not some typical soc-realistic figure, but a character from the local legends and folklore - Veli Jože, which was also the main character in Vladimir Nazor's 1908 novel of the same name.


----------



## Wiener.Blut

Lauenburg - Horst


----------



## verreme

Puležan said:


> It's not 1300, but 132, as verreme said
> 
> Those Fiat/Zastava 132 models were made in Zagreb in period 1974-1981. Although considered as Zastava's product, they wore Fiat logo. The name of Zastava was only on the chassis plate.


Thanks. They were also made in Spain, but with Seat badging everywhere.


----------



## bogdymol

*An article in Romanian language about the landing strips on motorways.*










A10 Thunderbolt on a german autobahn:










C-130 Hercules landing on A29:










A29 Autobahn near Alhorn, Germany:










Inside the article there are also some youtube videos.


----------



## Wiener.Blut

Belarus


----------



## Wiener.Blut

Taiwan


----------



## Wiener.Blut

Video from 1970 *Belgrade *about traffic police officer, last part belgrade police officers in Rome. 






Interesting Mustang with Belgrade plates 2:47

Commercial for Jugopetrol 1955. Note Y oval for Yugoslavia, later changed to YU.


----------



## Kemo

http://overkill-pl.forwhom.net/Zdjecie-Metallica-na-gierkowce-,2577.html









Photo taken in 1987 on "gierkówka" expressway near Piotrków Trybunalski, Poland :cheers:


----------



## Iregua

N-340 in Almería (Spain) in 1987.


Spain Nach Granada September 1987 176 por orangevolvobusdriver4u, en Flickr


Spain Nach Granada September 1987 175 por orangevolvobusdriver4u, en Flickr



The road to Mulhacén Peak, Sierra Nevada, Granada (Spain) in 1987


Spain Mulhacen September 1987 186 por orangevolvobusdriver4u, en Flickr


Spain Mulhacen September 1987 187 por orangevolvobusdriver4u, en Flickr


Spanien Mulhacen September 1987 184 por orangevolvobusdriver4u, en Flickr


(3,380 m = 11,089 ft)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kemo said:


> http://overkill-pl.forwhom.net/Zdjecie-Metallica-na-gierkowce-,2577.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo taken in 1987 on "gierkówka" expressway near Piotrków Trybunalski, Poland :cheers:


Heavy metal sign.


----------



## piotr71

>


I drove on this road in 1994 all the way down from Barcelona to Algeciras. It was really amazing experience. I remember donkeys walking alongside the road, enormous bulls following us when slept on a field, lots of prostitutes of any gender selling their bodies, most fabulous thunders I ever seen, hundreds of friendly Spaniards partying after midnight in villages passed by and some communications problems; not many of them could speak a foreign language whatsoever. Road was rather empty and pleasure to drive. Some parts were already dual carriageway, some were under construction. Actually, whole country was kind of huge construction site, back then.


----------



## verreme

^^ Everything is very different now. You won't see any empty pieces of N-340, except maybe the abandoned sections.


----------



## Wiener.Blut

Belgrade, YU


----------



## beto_chaves

Some pictures (1960 to 1970) of the former Portuguese city of Lourenço Marques (capital of the Overseas Province of Mozambique until 1975), now Maputo, capital of the Republic of Mozambique):


----------



## RV

Wow, so rich-looking, nice and well organized, specially considering this is in the heart of Africa. F****n commies ruined it all for mozambicans themselves


----------



## darko06

RV said:


> Wow, so rich-looking, nice and well organized, specially considering this is in the heart of Africa. F****n commies ruined it all for mozambicans themselves


F****n commies ruined it all almost everywhere.


----------



## RV

darko06 said:


> F****n commies ruined it all almost everywhere.


And finnish children in this "western" country where forced in schools to take money to be destined to FRELIMO commie guerrilleros...


----------



## beto_chaves

RV said:


> Wow, so rich-looking, nice and well organized, specially considering this is in the heart of Africa. F****n commies ruined it all for mozambicans themselves


Indeed! Mozambique, as well as Angola, were very developed overseas provinces (even more than '_Portugal metropolitano_' - the name usually used to designate the original Portugueses borders in Europe). In part, this development was due the huge natural resources that these 2 former provinces had (and still have). Even people were more 'developed' than in european Portugal. If you look to the architecture of the houses, the city planning, everything is quite different from european Portugal. Although Portugal was a dictatorship, Angola and Mozambique had a different way of living. Much more open, more free... after the independence, almost 1 million Portuguese ran way from Africa back to Portugal. The way of thinking and being was so different that these 'african' Portugueses made a truly cultural revolution in the old grey Portugal.

And the major cities were always built from scratch! That's why you can find such perfectly aligned streets and avenues. Later I'll post more pictures of other cities.


----------



## beto_chaves

RV said:


> And finnish children in this "western" country where forced in schools to take money to be destined to FRELIMO commie guerrilleros...


Really?!?!


----------



## Iregua

beto_chaves said:


> Indeed! Mozambique, as well as Angola, were very developed overseas provinces (even more than '_Portugal metropolitano_' - the name usually used to designate the original Portugueses borders in Europe). In part, this development was due the huge natural resources that these 2 former provinces had (and still have). Even people were more 'developed' than in european Portugal. If you look to the architecture of the houses, the city planning, everything is quite different from european Portugal. Although Portugal was a dictatorship, Angola and Mozambique had a different way of living. Much more open, more free... after the independence, almost 1 million Portuguese ran way from Africa back to Portugal. The way of thinking and being was so different that these 'african' Portugueses made a truly cultural revolution in the old grey Portugal.
> 
> And the major cities were always built from scratch! That's why you can find such perfectly aligned streets and avenues. Later I'll post more pictures of other cities.


That's very interesting!

What I see in the pictures is that people in Moçambique drive on the left. Maybe because it is close to some British ex-colonies such as Rhodesia/Zimbabwe or South Africa?

It seems that Macau and Timor-Leste drive on the left too! Not Angola, though.


----------



## beto_chaves

Iregua said:


> That's very interesting!
> 
> What I see in the pictures is that people in Moçambique drive on the left. Maybe because it is close to some British ex-colonies such as Rhodesia/Zimbabwe or South Africa?
> 
> It seems that Macau and Timor-Leste drive on the left too! Not Angola, though.


Yes, it is true. They drive on the left. All the neighboring countries are former British colonies and they all drive on left. The same to Macao due the proximity to Hong Kong. Despite these two exceptions (I'm not sure about Timor or even the Portuguese State of India) all the ex-colonies drive as in Portugal, on the right.


----------



## Zagor666

RV said:


> Wow, so rich-looking, nice and well organized, specially considering this is in the heart of Africa. F****n commies ruined it all for mozambicans themselves


Are you crazy???If you like the colonial slavery so much then move to Guantanamo Bay and live there(and i mean as a prisoner).Boy,this comment is a typical product of western capitalistic school propaganda.Use your brain dam it hno:


----------



## beto_chaves

Zagor666 said:


> Are you crazy???If you like the colonial slavery so much then move to Guantanamo Bay and live there(and i mean as a prisoner).Boy,this comment is a typical product of western capitalistic school propaganda.Use your brain dam it hno:


I think this is not an issue for this thread...


----------



## DanielFigFoz

beto_chaves said:


> Yes, it is true. They drive on the left. All the neighboring countries are former British colonies and they all drive on left. The same to Macao due the proximity to Hong Kong. Despite these two exceptions (I'm not sure about Timor or even the Portuguese State of India) all the ex-colonies drive as in Portugal, on the right.


East Timor drove on the right until the Indonesians took over. I presume that Portuguese India drove on the left before it was incorporated into the Republic in 61.


----------



## Zagor666

beto_chaves said:


> I think this is not an issue for this thread...


Ok Buddy,but you started it.You can not post something like that without expecting a reaction :cheers:


----------



## italystf

Yes, Mozambique looks like developed during Portoguese domination judgin by the pics above. However it's important to know how many Mozambiquese (is it the right adjective?) could enjoy that level of development. Probably the pics above show the financial and political centre of the capital city and not the homeland of 99% of people. Even today, even the poorest country has some nice places, but they aren't representative. Considering that Portugal during Salazàr was a dictatorship harsh even for ethnic mainlander Portoguese, I doubt it was a paradise for the submitted African folk.


----------



## DanielFigFoz

italystf said:


> Yes, Mozambique looks like developed during Portoguese domination judgin by the pics above. However it's important to know how many Mozambiquese (is it the right adjective?) could enjoy that level of development. Probably the pics above show the financial and political centre of the capital city and not the homeland of 99% of people. Even today, even the poorest country has some nice places, but they aren't representative. Considering that Portugal during Salazàr was a dictatorship harsh even for ethnic mainlander Portoguese, I doubt it was a paradise for the submitted African folk.


It's Mozambican and indeed.


----------



## volodaaaa

I agree with Zagor666 but not in matter that commies were better. Actually, they WERE BETTER in composing photos, so if you find some official photos from socialist countries, you will see beautiful squares, flowers along roads, etc. The reality were often way different.


----------



## MattiG

Iso-Roobertinkatu, Helsinki, Finland









Protographer Signe Brander, 1908









Google Maps, 2009


----------



## RV

Zagor666 said:


> Are you crazy???If you like the colonial slavery so much then move to Guantanamo Bay and live there(and i mean as a prisoner).Boy,this comment is a typical product of western capitalistic school propaganda.Use your brain dam it hno:


For some people, independence on paper seems to be more important than developement and living standards. Who cares whether some country is a dictatorship or not, if the system supports free market and life in general is good? That's because there are not manifestations in China. A dictatorship is often a better system than a democracy, where people who are not aware on economics and politics can vote commies, greens, neonazis, etc.


----------



## RV

beto_chaves said:


> Really?!?!


Yeah, and in the late sixties children were also forced to bring money to the communist army of northern Vietnam for "writing machines" (guns); my dad brought dog poop in a pocket  Also, despite the elections result (continuous loss) Socialists and Communists where nearly permanently in the government between the 60's and the 80's.

Yeah, our reputation as some example of perfect democracy is a myth. For example presidential elections of 1974 were completely annulled. Even today a non-social-democrat oppinion here causes a "scandal" and nazi-labelling in all major medias.


----------



## beto_chaves

RV said:


> Yeah, and in the late sixties children were also forced to bring money to the communist army of northern Vietnam for "writing machines" (guns); my dad brought dog poop in a pocket  Also, despite the elections result (continuous loss) Socialists and Communists where nearly permanently in the government between the 60's and the 80's.


So strange to hear this... specially when we're talking about Finland...


----------



## Zagor666

volodaaaa said:


> I agree with Zagor666 but not in matter that commies were better. Actually, they WERE BETTER in composing photos, so if you find some official photos from socialist countries, you will see beautiful squares, flowers along roads, etc. The reality were often way different.


Showe me a country where that isn´t so. I never saw a olympic presentation showing ghettos instead of beautiful parks in the city


----------



## RV

beto_chaves said:


> So strange to hear this... specially when we're talking about Finland...


Yeah, our reputation of a perfect democracy is a myth. For example, the presidential elections of 1974 were completely annulled, and National Coalition as a major winner was not taken to government because Soviet opposition in 1970 and 1979 - the major losers (Communist party and left in general) instead continued governating. 

Even today all non-social-democratic-oppinions are labelled as Nazi and made "scandals" in all major medias.


----------



## volodaaaa

Zagor666 said:


> Showe me a country where that isn´t so. I never saw a olympic presentation showing ghettos instead of beautiful parks in the city


Yeah, you are right. But in communist regime it was more significant - believe me, I lived in one. However, my opinion to communist regime is not black & white, but details belong to another thread


----------



## italystf

volodaaaa said:


> I agree with Zagor666 but not in matter that commies were better. Actually, they WERE BETTER in composing photos, so if you find some official photos from socialist countries, you will see beautiful squares, flowers along roads, etc. The reality were often way different.


I read that foreign leaving N.Korea have their memory cards inspected by custom police and "uncomfortable" pics removed, so foreigns can't see the bad sides of the country.



RV said:


> For some people, independence on paper seems to be more important than developement and living standards. Who cares whether some country is a dictatorship or not, if the system supports free market and life in general is good? That's because there are not manifestations in China. A dictatorship is often a better system than a democracy, where people who are not aware on economics and politics can vote commies, greens, neonazis, etc.


People in China don't protest because otherwise they would be arrested and tortured. China isn't only the wealthy Beijng and Shangai, but also a lot of villages where people are still very poor. A large share of Chinese population work in bad conditions with very low wages. And why? Because the dictatorship doesn't allow trade unions to protect workers and doesn't make welfare laws.
If you look at the richest countries in the world, all of them are democracies, apart Singapore and some Gulf states. In non-democratic countries there is usually more social inequality (higher Gini coefficient).



RV said:


> Yeah, and in the late sixties children were also forced to bring money to the communist army of northern Vietnam for "writing machines" (guns); my dad brought dog poop in a pocket  Also, despite the elections result (continuous loss) Socialists and Communists where nearly permanently in the government between the 60's and the 80's.
> 
> Yeah, our reputation as some example of perfect democracy is a myth. For example presidential elections of 1974 were completely annulled. Even today a non-social-democrat oppinion here causes a "scandal" and nazi-labelling in all major medias.


Yes, northern countries are a myth of democracy, efficiency and welfare in the whole world. When you hear bad stories from there, for example the nazi-like eugenetic programme in Sweden from the 30s to the 70s, it's very surprising.


----------



## beto_chaves

RV said:


> Yeah, our reputation of a perfect democracy is a myth. For example, the presidential elections of 1974 were completely annulled, and National Coalition as a major winner was not taken to government because Soviet opposition in 1970 and 1979 - the major losers (Communist party and left in general) instead continued governating.
> 
> Even today all non-social-democratic-oppinions are labelled as Nazi and made "scandals" in all major medias.


I've to re-read the Finnish history


----------



## UnHavrais

*Avenue Foch, Le Havre, Normandy, France*










(1962)










(1963)


----------



## RV

^Sweden in fact was an uni-party state 1935-1976 and 1982-1991, despite democratic elections.


----------



## beto_chaves

darko06 said:


> Thank you for these pictures. I am impressed with quality of International Style architecture in Angola before 1975. How can be possible that so called "dictatorship" in its "colony" had built better architecture than the "comrades" in the former Deutsche Demokratische Republik? :lol:
> I am a great admirer of Portuguese architecture and infrastructure (let's say Ponte da Arrabida in Porto) and it seems that the history of so called Portuguese Colonial International Style should be written or rewritten from the scratch.


You´re welcome darko06! 

Indeed very interesting architecture style. 60's and 70's had really nice architecture in Portugal (in the mainland and in Africa). In the cases of Angola and Mozambique, all the cities were developed from the scratch, that's why they seem so well planned. On the other hand, if you look to 'old' Portugal in Europe, even during the same dates, this nice architecture style is not so evident!


----------



## darko06

Let's say that Portuguese mainland and colonial architecture in 60s and 70s is aesthetically far better than the Yugoslav architecture from the same period (Slovenian architecture included).


----------



## RV

So why the heck did they do some stupid commie revolution?

For example, the so-noticed Chinese protestors in the news are actually a really marginal group among the people: people doesn't care wether there is some democracy or not, because things are continuously getting better in what comes to living standards, now also in the countryside.


----------



## DanielFigFoz

RV said:


> So why the heck did they do some stupid commie revolution?
> 
> For example, the so-noticed Chinese protestors in the news are actually a really marginal group among the people: people doesn't care wether there is some democracy or not, because things are continuously getting better in what comes to living standards, now also in the countryside.


The Carnation Revolution was not stupid. Firstly, Portugal would never win the war and the government would not end it. Secondly, just because they built nice buildings, doesn't mean that people were well educated (if you finished primary school you were lucky), the infant mortality rate was shocking, there was no free healthcare, women had to get permission to travel, illegitimate children had their 'status' on all their documents.


----------



## Verso

Why are we talking about communism again?


----------



## RV

DanielFigFoz said:


> The Carnation Revolution was not stupid. Firstly, Portugal would never win the war and the government would not end it. Secondly, just because they built nice buildings, doesn't mean that people were well educated (if you finished primary school you were lucky), the infant mortality rate was shocking, there was no free healthcare, women had to get permission to travel, illegitimate children had their 'status' on all their documents.


I ment the Angola and Mozambique ones - any progress hasn't happened since 1975, things have got much worse. The leaders of these revolutions just took the wealth of the portuguese.

Portugal luckily didn't at last become an eastern block state in the west, but a western democracy.


----------



## italystf

Highways damaged by the 1989 San Francisco earthquake


----------



## Verso

Border between Austria and Slovenia/Yugoslavia in 1964 on the Wurzenpass/Korensko sedlo:


















http://www.technischesmuseum.at/motorsport-in-oesterreich/objekt/mediaid/339060/search/a4-20-a8-1964-a9-1964?returnurl=http://www.technischesmuseum.at/motorsport-in-oesterreich/veranstaltung/articleid/2395









http://www.delcampe.net/page/item/id,219328920,var,Rasthaus-Bergmann-Wurzenpas-ak76601,language,E.html


----------



## BriedisUnIzlietne

Roads in 1930ies Latvia

Just a regular road in the countryside - the Skaista-Dagda road. BTW "Skaista" translates to "Beautiful".

Road down leading down to the Gauja river the bridge over which you can see in the background.

A roadsign at the intersection of the now A2/E77 and P27 roads. The sign features carved ornaments which look like our traditional signs, but I can't find an exact match so it seems to be simply for looks. Nowadays it's a two level interchange; still in the middle of a forest.

A different kind of roadsigns. This one is near the border with Estonia since only one of the locations on the sign is in Latvia.

The border crossing of Latvia with Estonia. The barriers are in the colors of the flags so the one in the foreground is maroon and white while the one in the background is blue, black and white.

A bridge in the capital city of Rīga. An interesting fact is that there was sort of a floating swimming pool attached to the bridge where the people could go and take a swim and not have to travel to the beach. Nowadays the pool is gone but there is a new beach just a kilometer upstream. The sight is quite surreal. (Photo by mieramika)








One of the few traffic lights that we had.


----------



## volodaaaa

Starý most (literally "Old bridge"), first bridge over Danube in Bratislava finished its life on 2nd December 2013. The bridge is being taken apart right now.

The bridge was originally build in 1889 - 1890, named after Franz Joseph (Franz Joseph Bridge) and after the break up of Austria-Hungary renamed after M.R. Stefanik (Famous Slovak politician). One side of bridge was designated for trams, second one for train. The bridge was partially destroyed in 1945 by retreating German army. Shortly in 1918 - 1919 and 1938 - 1945, the bridge served as border crossing between Czechoslovakia and Hungary or Third Reich respectively. 


















































The restoration of destroyed bridge started immediately by Soviet army and was finished in 1946 as the simple provisional solution (thus to be restored in full shape within ten years later in post-war times). Therefore, some architectural features was not taken into account (e.g. the vault on the segment in between). 

Unfortunately, the provisional solution along with the fact that bridge was not well cared of caused that in 1961 the tram track ought to have been removed from the bridge (reducing the tram network in Bratislava solely to left river bank). Twenty years after, remaining railway track through the city centre was replaced by new one bypassing the city through the new railway bridge and therefore, Old bridge remained designated only for cars (although the railway side of bridge stayed untouched with railway track with dead ends up to now). 









In 1968 - Warsaw pact intervention in Czechoslovakia. Note the tram track was still present, thought it was not already in operation.









In 70s without tram track already.









In early 2000s









Redundant of railway side of bridge 









Abandoned railway side on the left, road traffic side (here in operation yet) on the right.











In 2009, due to state of emergency, the bridge was closed for road traffic (except public transport buses) , in 2010 for public transport as well.










Just after the closure of old bridge due to state of emergency caused by unfavourable statics (in 2010) guarded by police. 










Inhabitants of Bratislava saying "goodbye" to bridge at last evening (1st December of 2013)



















Disassembling of the bridge. It will have been completely taken apart in March 2014.










Visualization of "New" Old bridge. Trams are planned to expand back to the right river bank after 50 year again. This is how we care about historical heritage :-(


----------



## BriedisUnIzlietne

I am intrigued! So much so that I want to write about a similar looking long gone bridge in the city of Rīga, Lativa.

*Dzelzs tilts *(Iron bridge) was, as the name implies, the first iron bridge over the river Daugava. Built between 1871 and 1872 was 737 meters long and made up of 8 spans with a swing section on the right bank.

The roadway was 9,75 meters wide and included railway tracks. There were pedestrian sidewalks on both sides of the bridge outside the metal trusses.

The railway usage was increasing. It turned out that this bridge wasn't wide enough for a double track railway line. So by 1914 a new double track railway-only bridge was built right next to this one. With that the old bridge was reclassified as a public transport and road traffic bridge.
_In the picture below the new bridge is on the left, old bridge - right._

In 1917 both bridges were blown up by the Russian army which was boldly retreating. For the Iron bridge it was the 3 middle spans. The blown up Iron bridge pieces were replaced with wooden spans which were then damaged by Bermont's army in 1919 and burnt down completely in 1920. _In the picture the Iron bridge is on the right._

During Latvia's independence years we slowly (from 1925 to 1938) rebuilt the bridge completely and renamed it Zemgales tilts. _By now you probably understand that it is still the one on the right._








The new girders were wider than the old ones so now the roadway was 10,40 meters wide and included two tram tracks. And there were two 2,2 meter wide sidewalks on both sides. It was intended for the rebuilt bridge to be converted for railway usage when it would be needed since the railway bridge now had two tracks of different gauges - one in European width for Rīga-Berlin high speed train and the second in Russian gauge for domestic traffic.








But the plans, the bridge, our independence and everything else ended with WWII. In just 6 years Zemgales tilts went from grand opening to being completely destroyed. Firstly, in 1941 the Red army destroyed some spans of the bridge. 

And in 1944 the Germans destroyed it completely. You can't even tell which parts are from which bridge.

Zemgales tilts never did get rebuilt while the Railway bridge did. All that is left from Zemgales tilts are the remains of the abutments. The one in the picture below now looks much better - there is a new promenade and the top of the pier is now a beautiful flower garden - but I can't find a new picture.








There are plans of rebuilding the bridge but it certainly won't be done with the city's money so until there is a private project, nothing will be built. I'll end with two areal shots of both bridges in 1924 and 2010s and a contemporary picture of the Railway bridge.


















:cheers:


----------



## volodaaaa

Talking about old bridges, I have decided to show you some strange level crossings in Bratislava due to track running through the city up to 1981 (red on map). 

Here is the map









"Railway bypass" (purple on map) was completed in 1981, but some redundant part of former railway are still present (e.g track on the aforementioned Old bridge).










Click to see it now










Click to see it now










Click to see it now










Railway station replaced by business centres 

Remained and abandoned railway station with dead end on the bottom (south)


----------



## Alex_ZR

Novi Sad in Serbia had interesting history of railway. It came from Subotica in 1883, when new railway bridge was built:










It was blown up twice during World War II, in 1941 and 1944.










Since then, we have this:










From 1945 to 1962, railway used rebuilt road bridge:























































This was just temporary solution (it caused traffic problems and smoke in houses by which train passed :nuts. New railway and road bridge (destroyed in 1999 during NATO bombing) together with new railway station was built on the other location:














































Old railway station (demolished): hno:










My sketch:


----------



## volodaaaa

the eighth photo - woow :shifty:


----------



## Alex_ZR

^^ Close the windows! :lol:


----------



## volodaaaa

Alex_ZR said:


> ^^ Close the windows! :lol:


Apparently, respective people took it easy :lol:


----------



## Iregua

50 pictures of the construction of the AP-6 Villalba-Villacastín in Spain (1971): https://plus.google.com/photos/101627247683677781970/albums/5823008125417353537?banner=pwa

Source: http://www.apratizando.com/2012/12/...construccion-del-segundo-tunel-de-guadarrama/

Thanks to *miliar*


miliar said:


> Os dejo el enlace a una interesante colección de fotografías aéreas tomadas en *1971* durante la construcción de la autopista *A-6* Villalba-Villacastín (actual *AP-6*).
> 
> Fotografías aéreas de la construcción del segundo túnel de Guadarrama :cheers:


----------



## bogdymol

Bridge over Jiu river in during the protest of Romanian miners in January 1999. The miners are crossing the bridge in this way because the state authorities blocked the bridge with large rocks to prevent them from crossing.










More pictures from the protests on mediafax.ro.


----------



## italystf

Italian motorway police in the 1970s, using an Alfa Romeo Giulia 1600









Building the "autostrada" Turin - Milan (1931)









Autostrada Naples - Pompei, opened in 1929









Paying toll on the "autostrada" Genova - Serravalle, 1958









Automatic toll payiment in the 1970s. 50 ITL is less than 0,03€ with the 1999 exchange rate.









Autostrada Napoli - Pompei with the Vesuvio in the background, 1930s









Bergamo terminus of the autostrada Milan - Bergamo in 1928









Digging of Servola tunnel, SS202 Trieste, 1985









A4-A13 junction in Padova, 1980s or early 1990s









RA17 (now A34) near Villesse exit in 2006 (not that old but it has changed a lot since then)


----------



## x-type

when did Italy change yellow side lines to white? were yellow present at national roads too, or only motorways?


----------



## g.spinoza

x-type said:


> when did Italy change yellow side lines to white? were yellow present at national roads too, or only motorways?


Around early nineties, 1993 if I'm not mistaken. It was present in all roads national and local as well.


----------



## x-type

interesting, i had no idea about it  now it makes sense where had Yugoslavia got inspired for yellow lines 
however, i remember seeing yellow lines' remainings under white ones when I was in Italy for the first time (1996) or at images in Gente Motori, which i was buying


----------



## stickedy

There were yellow and white lines in Europe until about beginning / middle of the 90ies. Then it was changed in most countries to white. Perhaps it's connected with the Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals, but I'm not sure about it.

In Austria e.g. the markings were changed to white in 1995 or 1996 afair.


----------



## Alex_ZR

stickedy said:


> There were yellow and white lines in Europe until about beginning / middle of the 90ies. Then it was changed in most countries to white. Perhaps it's connected with the Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals, but I'm not sure about it.
> 
> In Austria e.g. the markings were changed to white in 1995 or 1996 afair.


I think that replacement of yellow with white background at warning signs is somehow linked with lines color change.


----------



## italystf

g.spinoza said:


> Around early nineties, 1993 if I'm not mistaken. It was present in all roads national and local as well.


I think so, since in 1993 it was passes the new highway code and many signs were replaced with new one with different design. Our signs became more similar than those in other European countries and some text-based signs were replaced with pictogram-based ones, more understandable by foreign drivers.


----------



## x-type

Alex_ZR said:


> I think that replacement of yellow with white background at warning signs is somehow linked with lines color change.


did some other european countries have yellow background (except Scandinavia, Poland, Yugoslavia and Greece)?


----------



## Alex_ZR

x-type said:


> did some other european countries have yellow background (except Scandinavia, Poland, Yugoslavia and Greece)?


No idea. :dunno:


----------



## keber

x-type said:


> interesting, i had no idea about it  now it makes sense where had Yugoslavia got inspired for yellow lines


Design of first motorways (including signs) in Yugoslavia was almost a copy of Italian autostradas of that time.


----------



## volodaaaa

Alex_ZR said:


> No idea. :dunno:


Yellow side lines are still present at some motorway sections in Macedonia (AFAIK).

In Slovakia, solid yellow side line means "stopping or parking of vehicle forbidden". Dashed one is designated only for "no parking" (so you are allowed to stop for necessary time). 









stopping and parking prohibited









only parking prohibited.

The use in practice









I think it has the same meaning in other countries as well.


----------



## stickedy

I think Spain has / had signs with yellow background as well. But I'm also not sure about it


----------



## volodaaaa

stickedy said:


> I think Spain has / had signs with yellow background as well. But I'm also not sure about it


Yellow background was (is?) still quite common on Balkan. I've been told it is reasoned due to better legibility in winter times with snow around but it sounds like crap to me especially if I consider Austrian signs with white background.

In Germany, Czech republic and Slovakia, yellow coloured background is related to temporary signs.


----------



## BL2

volodaaaa said:


> Yellow side lines are still present at some motorway sections in Macedonia (AFAIK).


leftovers from YU times.


----------



## Alex_ZR

volodaaaa said:


> *Yellow background was (is?) still quite common on Balkan.* I've been told it is reasoned due to better legibility in winter times with snow around but it sounds like crap to me especially if I consider Austrian signs with white background.


These signs are obviously old signs that haven't been replaced yet.




volodaaaa said:


> In Germany, Czech republic and Slovakia, yellow coloured background is related to temporary signs.


Same goes for Serbia (road works, etc).










Sign "60" is temporary until road works are done.










Same goes for this photo.


----------



## Norsko

I think that Romania and the Soviet Union used yellow warning and prohibition traffic signs in the 50ies or 60ies (maybe even in the 70ies and 80ies aswell).


----------



## x-type

here is the rare photo of HR motorways with yellow side lines. even more rare it is due to the fact that it is one of sections from new era of HR motorways. the year when this photo was taken is 2001, obviously just few weeks before the new, white markings (and simultaneously white backgrounds) have been introduced. it is A1 between Karlovac and Bosiljevo.










another one - A4 at Sveta Helena. it must had been 1999 because the section Sveta Helena - Komin had already been opened









A4 at Popovec, also very late 1990es. section Popovec - Ivanja Reka was still 1+1 road


----------



## volodaaaa

Here is the photo from Macedonia (summer 2006)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What is the specific thought behind those yellow road markings? In North America it separates driving directions, but most other countries seem to have copied it without knowing why.


----------



## verreme

stickedy said:


> I think Spain has / had signs with yellow background as well. But I'm also not sure about it


Temporary signs in Spain use yellow background.

Our center lines were yellow as well, like they were in France. They changed to white in the 70s.


----------



## BL2

ChrisZwolle said:


> What is the specific thought behind those yellow road markings? In North America it separates driving directions, but most other countries seem to have copied it without knowing why.


So you would know where is the end of the road, same as white


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> What is the specific thought behind those yellow road markings? In North America it separates driving directions, but most other countries seem to have copied it without knowing why.


it is not without knowing it why, nor it's been copied from America. in Yugoslavia all road edges were signed with yellow lines. 
more confusing to me is Ireland, which uses dashed yellow lines at left edges only (both on motorways and state roads). Norway has obviously similar idea as America, but only on state roads. at motorways they don't consider dividing directions (what is actually more proper than American way)


----------



## riiga

Morsue said:


> Where is this picture taken?


Kungstensmotet/Rödastensmotet in Göteborg.


----------



## Ingenioren

volodaaaa said:


> I hope with divided carriageways


We have learned to only name proper motorways as motorways eventually.

An old picture to illustrate the old Motorway "class b" with blue signs and everything.









Since then this road is currently being widened to a proper motorway. At some point the 305 to Sandefjord lost it's "expressway" status, it's been crossed of the sign.


----------



## dars-dm

MKAD in 60s-80s








https://pastvu.com/p/60729









https://pastvu.com/p/1789









https://pastvu.com/p/75635









https://pastvu.com/p/46135









https://pastvu.com/p/85955


----------



## italystf

Milan, Piazzale Corvetto, 1960s









Milan, this junction in 1960s









Accident on A4 Milan-Bergamo, 1960s









Milestone on SS9 near Reggio Emilia, 1946









Milan, shortly after the liberation in 1945


----------



## Alex_ZR

Entering Zrenjanin from the west around 1990 (notice the yellow edge lines!):


----------



## Reivajar

Anybody could explain the meaning of tank as main destination in this picture of the German A5 published in the 'Indian Concrete Journal' in 1938? I don't get to understand the point of using a _tankstelle _as main destination... :lol:


----------



## Natomasken

Reivajar said:


> Anybody could explain the meaning of tank as main destination in this picture of the German A5 published in the 'Indian Concrete Journal' in 1938? I don't get to understand the point of using a _tankstelle _as main destination... :lol:


My guess is it's saying there's a Tankstelle 15 km ahead in Lorsch and one 39 km ahead in Darmstadt. The 24 km difference is roughly the distance between them. Based on the distances, the sign must be on the northbound side of the A5. I think the two dots represent the towns, as Lorsch is on the left (west) of the A5 and Darmstadt is on the right (east). But that being the case, the arrow diagram doesn't look right, because Lorsch should be on the bottom and Darmstadt on the top.


----------



## Hanno1983

*It must be A67*

It must be on A67 because A5 ("Bergstraßen-Autobahn") was built after 1945.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Natomasken said:


> My guess is it's saying there's a Tankstelle 15 km ahead in Lorsch and one 39 km ahead in Darmstadt. The 24 km difference is roughly the distance between them. Based on the distances, the sign must be on the northbound side of the A5. I think the two dots represent the towns, as Lorsch is on the left (west) of the A5 and Darmstadt is on the right (east). But that being the case, the arrow diagram doesn't look right, because Lorsch should be on the bottom and Darmstadt on the top.


I'm inclined to agree that the sign is indicating the distance to the nearest gas (petrol) stations. in this pic, they are located in Lorsch and Darmstadt.


----------



## Corvinus

1954 photos of A4 motorway near Eisenach (source + background story here).
I guess not much was done between 1945-54 so they show a genuine Reichsautobahn.

1.









2.









3.


----------



## Corvinus

A 1965 photo of the end of A81 motorway in Germany as it stood in 1940.

Posted here, original pic taken from facebook.com/centrostoricofiat.

Extension of the A81 began in the late 1960's, together with A6 from the West.


----------



## NordikNerd

*The construction of the motorway "Essingeleden" 1964 & 1965.*









*The inaguaration of the motorway "Essingeleden" in Stockholm 1966*









*Traffic congestions on the road "Drottningholmsvägen" 1963*










Södertäljevägen 1962


----------



## Innsertnamehere

posted this in the Canada highways thread a while ago, but thought it would be appropriate here.

Ontario Highway 401 in 1959 at Meadowvale Road, just outside of Toronto. Today this same stretch of highway is 14 lanes wide and has an AADT of over 240,000, making it one of the busier stretches of highway on the planet. It would not receive the Highway 401 designation for another couple of years, at the time of recording the highway was simply known as "The Toronto Bypass". Ironically this so called bypass is now the economic artery running through the heart of the city that has long since grown around it, roughly quadrupling in population since then.







https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.7993565,-79.1663339,198m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

today: (taken from Google Earth)


----------



## John Maynard

Old and new stretch of A8 by Aichelberg:

Old RAB stretch built in the 1930's:


















Cobblestone Autobahn in the 1930's:









And now:









In the 1950's:









In the 1980's traffic increase and trucks, cased this section to become a major source of accidents, because of its narrow and curvy configuration without hard shoulders, particularly slippery in winter:









So, it was decided instead to build a new, more straight Autobahn, 3X3 with hard shoulders:


















The old and new section in 2011:


----------



## verreme

Del


----------



## RV

Some from Helsinki; all look so clean and you know like more colorful, in the color pictures of course 

Constructing the first expressway in Finland, the Eastern Access (Kulosaari bridge and Kulosaari section), in Kulosaari (Helsinki) 1950










The old bridge in 1950, rush hour. Sörnäinen was back then an industrial area. Luckilly many buildings still stand there, though not the ones in the photo.










Mannerheimintie in 1949, the late 1950's, 1963 and in 1970, back when it was 3+3-laned and Greens didn't exist. It seems like it was, like the Esplanades, 3+3 from the late 1930's to 1999.


































First 3+3-motorway in Finland, Lahti motorway, in 1970 and 1980


















Esplanades in the early to mid 1960's, basing on the buildings. Back then 3+3.


















Expanding works just starting to 3+3 and rush hour on the Kulosaari bridge in 1966










After expansion in 1972










Pitkäsilta bridge in Helsinki in 1965; later, it was expanded to 2+3 and again later downgraded to 2+2. It was the main access from the East to the city center until 1961










The new Hakaniemi bridge in 1970 and 1975. Constructed in 1961, Greens sadly are tearing such a massive element down.


















Hakaniemi square, which was back in 1970 4+4










Construction of the Tuusula motorway in Helsinki with old road near the new one, 1960


























Old Tuusula Road, 1950










Western Access, opened to traffic westbound in 1963, and after completion (1963-1965) in 1971


















September morning in 1970 in Herttoniemi (E Access)










Eastern Access 1970 (Viikki interchange)


















Eastern Access 1970 (Near Itäkeskus)


















And from above










In 1970, the arrows of the signs in Finland pointed down, not up (Viikki interchange)










Morning rush before the metro line was built on E Access near Kulosaari bridge, 1971


























Kulosaari interchange, 1971










E Access start at Sörnäinen, 1970










Sörnäinen, 1971


























E Access in Sörnäinen, 1971










Merihaka, 1982










Bums drinking inside the central junction of E Access, 1971


----------



## Maciek_CK

*current DK81, Żory, 1970s*









*DK7 near Płońsk, 1980s*









*Żabia Wola (curently DK8, part of Gierkówka), early 1970s*








source: GDDKiA


----------



## Verso

Maciek_CK said:


>


Yugoslav car in Poland?


----------



## Maciek_CK

That's right .


----------



## Verso

I didn't know they were exporting them to Poland as well. I don't remember the Zastava cars on old photos from Poland.


----------



## italystf

It's probably foreign since Polish plates used to be black until 2000.


----------



## Maciek_CK

Nevertheless, there were quite popular back in the ‘70s. Apart from being a foreign product, this particular model had a lively yet quiet engine that was extremely easy to mend – you we able to fix it by yourself based on an auto-repair manual.


----------



## piotr71

Verso said:


> Yugoslav car in Poland?


They were very popular in Poland back in the seventies. Also 600D Multipla was pretty usual sight on our roads. Next model, based on Fiat 128, was CKD assembled in Warsaw and sold as Zastava 1100P  You, Yugoslavs, in return were awarded with our beautiful and modern (it wasn't in fact) Polski Fiat 125P, sold in your country as Zastava 125pz.


----------



## BL2

piotr71 said:


> They were very popular in Poland back in the seventies. Also 600D Multipla was pretty usual sight on our roads. Next model, based on Fiat 128, was CKD assembled in Warsaw and sold as Zastava 1100P  You, Yugoslavs, in return were awarded with our beautiful and modern (it wasn't in fact) Polski Fiat 125P, sold in your country as *Zastava 125pz*.


Zastava 125zs was rare sight in YU.
One with Ljubljana plates. 










and one in car test



















somewhere on Adriatic


----------



## Verso

piotr71 said:


> They were very popular in Poland back in the seventies. Also 600D Multipla was pretty usual sight on our roads. Next model, based on Fiat 128, was CKD assembled in Warsaw and sold as Zastava 1100P  You, Yugoslavs, in return were awarded with our beautiful and modern (it wasn't in fact) Polski Fiat 125P, sold in your country as Zastava 125pz.


Don't forget Maluch.  We call(ed) it Bolha (flee), because sometimes it started jumping (it happened the only time I drove with it, it was embarrassing ).


----------



## BL2

and the rest of Yugoslavia called it Pegla (iron) 
but this iron 









because it was cheap as iron and the same quality.


----------



## x-type

piotr71 said:


> They were very popular in Poland back in the seventies. Also 600D Multipla was pretty usual sight on our roads. Next model, based on Fiat 128, was CKD assembled in Warsaw and sold as Zastava 1100P  You, Yugoslavs, in return were awarded with our beautiful and modern (it wasn't in fact) Polski Fiat 125P, sold in your country as Zastava 125pz.


no no :nono:
Zastava also had model 128..

btw i saw Zastava 101 with hungarian plates last spring 

to be ontopic - Żory looks unrecognizable on that photo! it is so deserted unlike today!


----------



## Corvinus

A stretch of Reichsautobahn in 1945 - any idea where?

Shot from this Wehrmacht documentary.










70 years after, still many countries would gladly accept such roads!


----------



## hjf

Corvinus said:


> A stretch of Reichsautobahn in 1945 - any idea where?
> 
> Shot from this Wehrmacht documentary.
> 
> (image deleted)
> 
> 70 years after, still many countries would gladly accept such roads!


Very difficult to tell indeed. Most likely A5 north of Frankfurt:
* American army motor vehicle shown in film --> the americans were moving along the A5/A4 in April 45.
* Pictures from German cities in the film directly after said sequence show Eisenach and Gotha. Both cities are located on the A4.

Best

hjf


----------



## tooljan

piotr71 said:


> Polski Fiat 125P, sold in your country as Zastava 125pz.





















This is Fiat, not Zastava model, right? My father have one like this for cca 15 years. He is destroyed during ex-YU war, unfortunately...


----------



## tooljan

x-type said:


> btw i saw Zastava 101 with hungarian plates last spring


Budapest is full of Zastava/Yugo cars:










This is Yugo 101 Skala 55 (or something like that) in Budapest.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

Hahahaha.I can't believe that cars from my country were so popular abroad.


----------



## Verso

Once I watched an American movie where everyone drove Yugo, but I don't remember which movie it was.


----------



## Broccolli

I remember that my neighbour had Yugo car, which was made for american market (so he claimed), and it had both units of speed on speedometer (km/h and mph)


----------



## tooljan

Verso said:


> Once I watched an American movie where everyone drove Yugo, but I don't remember which movie it was.


"Drowning Mona"
Danny DeVito, Jamie Lee Curtis etc.


----------



## tooljan

Broccolli said:


> I remember that my neighbour had Yugo car, which was made for american market (so he claimed),


Yes, the famous Yugo America project


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

tooljan said:


> Yes, the famous Yugo America project


dXjAqGzjKE


----------



## Penn's Woods

Broccolli said:


> I remember that my neighbour had Yugo car, which was made for american market (so he claimed), and it had both units of speed on speedometer (km/h and mph)


Yep, you could buy Yugos here.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ until sanctions happened, then Zastava works had all these extra American parts so just used them in local production

then NATO bombed the factory, I always thought, ah, probably some fighter pilot owned a Yugo that broke down and he wanted revenge :lol:


----------



## piotr71

x-type said:


> no no :nono:
> Zastava also had model 128..
> (..)


I didn't say they had not. Though, 128 in its original shape hadn't been sold or assembled in Poland, only 128's based hatchback Zastava 1100*P* had.


----------



## sirfreelancealot

VITORIA MAN said:


> Preston Bypass , first motorway in Gb , 1958
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ciht.org.uk/motorway/pbp opening convoy.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2751/4046994994_7edbf0055a.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5486/10846306163_ebfe52d63c_b.jpg
> and m1 ,1959
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2008/12/05/m1motorway_460x276.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://aipetcher.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/m1-1959.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.longbuckby.net/photos/Historic-buildings-an/54_newgallery.jpg


The latter one is Junction 17 of the M1 where the M45 merges. At the time it would have brought traffic from Birmingham onto the M1 until the M6 was opened. What surprises me about the pic is that even back then the lanes merging onto the carriageway were divided by a hard strip. This is common practice now and is used occassionally to provide better diverges off the motorway. Because chevrons are used now they are called 'tiger-tails'. Quite advanced for such a road of that age.


----------



## Corvinus

Wouldn't have guessed that GB opened its first motorway 14 years after Portugal did ...


----------



## italystf

Italy
8 December 1958
The first two stretches of A1: Milan - Piacenza North and Piacenza South - Parma.


----------



## Corvinus

italystf said:


> It looks like a Reichautobahn, with those concrete slabs.


Anyway I find it stunning that Argentina had such roads in 1941!



Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> I know some people who had that car.And after some time their cars ended up being burned,because they were old


In Socialist Hungary, the "little Polski" was a very widespread car. They were used well into the 1990s and some even beyond. 
The legendary (for its size) vehicle was also dubbed "mice's truck" or "pocket cruiser".



italystf said:


> Trabant, instead, was an entirely an East German design and the only car that regular East Germans were allowed to purchase. They were all limited to 100kph, that was the limit on East German highways that didn't undergo some maintenance since the WWII.


After reunification, the 100 km/h motorway limit had to be temporarily maintained for the former GDR's network due to the poor road quality. Only in 1993 did the new Bundesländer see the general limit abolished (that does not mean that until 1993, all motorways were repaired, so section limits did remain where appropriate). .


----------



## italystf

3 December 1960
A1 Bologna - Florence opens


----------



## italystf

Bridge over Tevere river (A1) U/C in November 1963
This was the last section of A1 to be completed, on 4 October 1964.


----------



## Kanadzie

Corvinus said:


> Excellent road photos from the People's Republic of Poland opcorn:
> *
> Yes, dem Commies as we know them: bragging about the evil nazis and imperialists, yet driving on the Reichsautobahn and in Chevy cars ...*


Yeah but both probably made by Polish people anyway (ka-zet'niks and polonia in US):lol:



italystf said:


> Trabant, instead, was an entirely an East German design and the only car that regular East Germans were allowed to purchase. They were all limited to 100kph, that was the limit on East German highways that didn't undergo some maintenance since the WWII.


It was actually East German body, but on top of mechanical parts from old 1930's DKW car, because the factory and drawings happened to stay in East while DKW managers were mostly smart enough to run to west... and so... DKW enterprise is the Audi of today, and Trabant... factory makes some VW's


----------



## x-type

italystf said:


> Bridge over Tevere river (A1) U/C in November 1963 This was the last section of A1 to be completed, on 4 October 1964.


which one? There is at least 8 of them if I remember well


----------



## Xpressway

Great thread! Thank you all for your contributions. 

I wish I could contribute with pictures of Chile's only highways back then (Route 68 and Route 5 dating from 80's, 90's) but I can't seem to find any pictures. If someone has any, please post.


----------



## VITORIA MAN

A6 , 1969 ( Spain )








http://www.cfcsl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/1.-PASO-SUPERIOR-ROZAS-1-1-380x380.jpg


----------



## VITORIA MAN

a19 , first tolled motorway in spain (1968 )








http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-e2FsHYUWN28/UPLAtuBnRsI/AAAAAAAAAhQ/GaH404dtXi4/s400/33a.jpg


----------



## VITORIA MAN

1953, barajas motorway (E)
















1961
















1966, america avenue
















1975








http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xUD0E5pP2...91+avenida+de+america+carretera+de+baraja.jpg


----------



## John Maynard

italystf said:


> This is an Italian design. Fiat 126 were very popular in Italy back in the 1970s and can occasionally be spotted today (probably among the most common classic cars around, together with 500, 600, 127, Citroen 2CV, VW Beetle and Renault 4\5).
> Polski Fiat, that was founded in 1934, derived directly from the Italian Fiat.
> Trabant, instead, was an entirely an East German design and the only car that regular East Germans were allowed to purchase. They were all limited to 100kph, that was the limit on East German highways that didn't undergo some maintenance since the WWII.


Even if it was an Italian design, it was never anywhere so popular than in Poland, especially known as a "familial car" :lol:: 1 352 912 Fiat 126 were produced in Italy against 3 318 674 "Maluch" in Poland!
Also, you couldn't go any faster than 100 km/h (1 person only), and if you were with your family and fully loaded with baggage, you were stuck at 60-70 km/h on a flat road :lol:, thanks to a terrific and powerful 23HP 2 cylinders air-cooled engine :laugh:.

To stay "on-topic", here is a picture with "Maluch"s traffic on the main street in Bielsko-Biala during the early 1980's:








Back then, most of the car traffic consisted of Fiat's 126p, 125p and Polonez :nuts:.

Anyway, would be great if Fiat issue a modern "neo-retro" version of the 126, similarly to the 500, or the VW Beetle!


----------



## VITORIA MAN

seat 133
















http://i46.tinypic.com/169hs3k.jpg


----------



## keber

italystf said:


> Italy
> 8 December 1958
> The first two stretches of A1: Milan - Piacenza North and Piacenza South - Parma.


Was Italy first to adopt crash barriers in the middle?


----------



## 100P

Poland - early 1990's

1. A4 Katowice - Kraków, summer 1993 (Lada Samara onboard):



still A4 (notice 180 kph on the clock):



2. DK12 Chełm - Lublin, summer 1994 (Lada Samara)



3. Trip from Poland to Slovakia, summer 1992 - (road from Michalovce to Zemplinska Sirava lake). Fiat 125p onboard:



Poland - DK1 (S1) Bielsko-Biała - Katowice, winter 1992. Fiat 125p onboard:



This Fiat 125p is still in our family  now on yellow "historic vehicle" license plates.


----------



## italystf

keber said:


> Was Italy first to adopt crash barriers in the middle?


Many sections of the Autostrada del Sole and other early motorways hadn't crash barrier in the middle, but only a grass median. Probably in this place there wasn't much room.
Autostrade per l'Italia started to instal crash barrier in all motorways in 1967.
Source: Facebook page of the company, that has also most old pic I post here.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*IT A10 Genova-Ventimiglia*

Part 1 :
Inaugurazione Viadotto Polcevera (1967)








Svincolo di Bolzaneto (1964)


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*IT A10 Genova-Ventimiglia*

Part 2:
Veduta aerea1








Veduta aerea2


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*IT A10 Genova-Ventimiglia*

Part 3:
Viadotto Polcevera1 (1964)








Viadotto Polcevera2 (1964)


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*IT A10 Genova-Ventimiglia*

Part 4:
Viadotto Montanesi (1965)








Veduta aerea3


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*IT A10 Genova-Ventimiglia*

Part 5:
Viadotto Varenna (1964)








Viadotto Varenna, particolare (1964)








ps I download this pictures from here:http://www.autostrade.it/it/comunicazione-e-media/mediateca/archivio-storico/-/media-items/media/playlist/storico-a10-genova-savona


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*IT A14,Bologna-Taranto*

Part 1:
Cartello d'ingresso








Galleria Novilara (1969)


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*IT A14,Bologna-Taranto*

Part 2:
Imbocco galleria (1967)








Impalcato cavalcavia (1967)


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*IT A14,Bologna-Taranto*

Part 3 :
Stazione di Faenza (1966)








Tratto Imola-Faenza (1966)


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*IT A14,Bologna-Taranto*

Part 4 :
Tratto Porto San Giorgio-Porto d'Ascoli (1971)








Viadotto Salinello


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*IT A14,Bologna-Taranto*

Last part:
Viadotto1


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*IT A8 Milano-Varese*

Nei pressi dell'Area di Servizio Volloresi








Veduta con San Fermo della Battaglia








Pictures from here: http://www.autostrade.it/it/comunicazione-e-media/mediateca/archivio-storico/-/media-items/media/playlist/storico-a8-milano-varese


----------



## tooljan

Expressway Banja Luka - Klašnice, part of E-661. Year: 1989.


----------



## RV

By the way, how comes Poland constructed so an still useful net of urban expressways (I have used those bridges) in Warsaw? Why didn't the center of power, Moscow, for example do so, just to show something? I have always wondered that, since Baltic SSR:s have urban motorways (notorious example in Tallinn - the Lasnamäe "canyon" with it's 2x4 lanes, or the southern access to Riga - nearly 20 Kms of 2x3).


----------



## volodaaaa

RV said:


> By the way, how comes Poland constructed so an still useful net of urban expressways (I have used those bridges) in Warsaw? Why didn't the center of power, Moscow, for example do so, just to show something? I have always wondered that, since Baltic SSR:s have urban motorways (notorious example in Tallinn - the Lasnamäe "canyon" with it's 2x4 lanes, or the southern access to Riga - nearly 20 Kms of 2x3).


Don't confuse East Bloc with Eurozone. Despite joint foreign policy, countries still had had their own national budgets. And USSR was not the richest country of Warsaw Pact. My parents remember that DDR was above average as well as now.


----------



## Corvinus

^^ Yes, that's true, the GDR, within the Socialist bloc, was a comparably wealthy country.

- It inherited a lot of industry and infrastructure from pre-war Germany, and the Soviets could not dismantle and take everything with them (e.g. the Autobahns),
- It continuously received billions of DM from West Germany ("purchase" of political prisoners, infrastructural aid in exchange for transit agreements, etc.)
- Many citizens had relatives in West Germany and received goods and money from them 
- ...

Speaking of GDR, here's a road, must be in the early 1950s. 
Sign in Cyrillic in the background, "Gera" and "Hermsdorfer Kreuz". Cyrillic signs didn't persist past the mid-1950s.










Source and background story (sports cars as reparation goods for the USSR ...)


----------



## volodaaaa

Yeah, trip to GDR was reportedly like demo version of West Bloc


----------



## Verso

Does it say "Kreuc"?


----------



## Alex_ZR

Verso said:


> Does it say "Kreuc"?


Yes.


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> Does it say "Kreuc"?


that was exactly what i caught in sight before anything else on the photo


----------



## ChrisZwolle

phonetically perhaps.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*A26 Italy*

Part 1
Galleria San Pietro e viadotto del Turchino








Ponte sul fiume Sesia


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*A26 Italy*

Part 2
Veduta








Ponte sul fiume Ticino








Source:http://www.autostrade.it/it/comunicazione-e-media/mediateca/archivio-storico/-/media-items/media/playlist/storico-a26-genova-voltri-gravellona-toce


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> phonetically perhaps.


khm, phonetically would be кроиц or кројц. this is just half-transliterated onto cyrillic.


----------



## italystf

A ruin of the famous Route 66 in the state of Oklaoma.
In the 1920s and 1930s many roads in rural areas of the USA had a single paved lane, that was used in both direction. Drivers used to stop in the gravel shoulders to let pass the rare oncoming vehicles.


----------



## Kanadzie

x-type said:


> khm, phonetically would be кроиц or кројц. this is just half-transliterated onto cyrillic.


Soviet Army probably went to German sign maker guy and said, "make this sign in Russian"
-"But I don't know Russian"
"OK we shoot you then"
"OK OK! Da, da I speak Russian" :lol:


----------



## volodaaaa

Kanadzie said:


> Soviet Army probably went to German sign maker guy and said, "make this sign in Russian"
> -"But I don't know Russian"
> "OK we shoot you then"
> "OK OK! Da, da I speak Russian" :lol:


Sorry for an offtopic:lol:


----------



## piotr71

Polish Beauty in Monte Carlo Rally .


----------



## italystf

Milan, Piazzale Corvetto, where _l'Autostrada del Sole_ begins.
Photo from 1964.


----------



## Corvinus

Some interesting Reichsautobahn shots:

1. Inauguration of the section Hamburg - Lübeck in 1937. Ceremony with cars of guests of the "General Inspector for the German Road Infrastructure", which will be followed by several buses of workers involved in the construction. Source










2. A piece of Reichsautobahn in the 1930's. Source does not state the exact location. Notice the cars with Third Reich registration and "D" decal. 











3. And the famous "Reiseruf": the absence of mobile phones did not prevent the ingenious Germans from receiving calls on their way. The call was signposted along the way indicating the vehicle license plate and the telephone number to call. The driver could then stop at the rest area and call the number. Service station clerks were responsible of writing the information on the chalkboard. 
The Reiseruf was launched in 1938 and discontinued with the beginning of the war in 1939. It was resumed in 1961 by radio announcements.
Source and complete story in Wikipedia.

Photo from 1938, showing the chalkboard on the median, titled "Fernruf für:" ("telephone call for:"), where registration number of targeted driver would be written below.


----------



## italystf

Is there somewhere in Germany (or Austria, Poland, Russia's Kaliningrad oblast) a stretch of _Reichautobahn _still preserved in its original shape? For example some short stretches that were bypassed by new allignments instead of being upgraded in site.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^DW142, Poland :









https://www.google.pl/maps/@53.4260...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1se8T11LFMKLAYCcMzYmiHpQ!2e0

The continuation of the road above - there is some kilometers of the old pavement on the S3/S6 expressway :









https://www.google.pl/maps/@53.4117...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sxJJD6DK3FgSE78GhbGxT9A!2e0


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

Is that road going to be reconstructed soon?
Anyway i found out that road infrastructure around Szczecin was very good compared to road infrastructure in other parts of Poland some 40 years ago.


----------



## Kanadzie

Corvinus said:


> Some interesting Reichsautobahn shots:
> 
> 1. Inauguration of the section Hamburg - Lübeck in 1937. Ceremony with cars of guests of the "General Inspector for the German Road Infrastructure", which will be followed by several buses of workers involved in the construction. Source


I love this picture with the full contraflow, it makes me wonder, is it the inaugration, or are they fleeing red army to the American side :lol:


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> Is there somewhere in Germany (or Austria, Poland, Russia's Kaliningrad oblast) a stretch of _Reichautobahn _still preserved in its original shape? For example some short stretches that were bypassed by new allignments instead of being upgraded in site.


http://goo.gl/maps/8fdoI


----------



## italystf

The first section of the "GRA" (Rome's ringroad), opened in 1951:


----------



## italystf

Never realized urban plan for Rome from 1962:








The double black line was intended to be an urban motorway, while yellow and red areas were planned to be business districts with modern buildings.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^There is still a reserved area for motorway between centro direzionale Centocelle and GRA/A1dir interchange


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*Autostrada A11 ,Italy*

Part 1 :
Lavori di raddoppio, attraversamento acquedotto








Nei pressi di Pistoia


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*Autostrada A11 ,Italy*

Part 2 :
Stazione di Lucca








Particolare casello


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*Autostrada A11 ,Italy*

Part 3:
Stazione di Prato1








Stazione di Prato2 (1962)


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*A12 Roma-Civitavecchia*

Traffico








Veduta aerea lavori2








Veduta aerea lavori1








Viadotto di svincolo con la Roma-Fiumicino








Source:http://www.autostrade.it/en/comunicazione-e-media/mediateca/archivio-storico/-/media-items/media/playlist/storico-a12-roma-civitavecchia


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*A13 Bologna-Padova,Italy*

Ponte sul Po1 (1968)








Ponte sul Po2 (1967)








Source:http://www.autostrade.it/en/comunicazione-e-media/mediateca/archivio-storico/-/media-items/media/playlist/storico-a13-bologna-padova


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*A16 Napoli-Bari,Italy*

Part 1 :
Cippo d'inizio autostrada








Galleria di Montemiletto (1966)


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*A16 Napoli-Bari,Italy*

Part 2 :
Inaugurazione (10.12.1969)








Nei pressi di Napoli (1965)


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*A16 Napoli-Bari,Italy*

Part 3:
Operazione di esazione








Ponte sul fiume Ufita (1968)








Viadotto sull'Ofanto (1966)


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*A16 Napoli-Bari,Italy*

Part 4 :
Viadotto Vallone delle Volpi








Source:http://www.autostrade.it/en/comunicazione-e-media/mediateca/archivio-storico/-/media-items/media/playlist/storico-a16-napoli-bari


----------



## LG_

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> Part 1 :
> Lavori di raddoppio, attraversamento acquedotto


Was that viaduct (aquеduct) on this picture partial demolished because of the construction of this highway? It seems it was!


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

Maybe.I don't live in Italy,so i can't tell you the right answer


----------



## Alex_ZR

LG_ said:


> Was that viaduct (aquеduct) on this picture partial demolished because of the construction of this highway? It seems it was!


It was, but that aqueduct isn't Roman:

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acquedotto_del_Nottolini


----------



## x-type

is italian tolling system the oldest in Europe?


----------



## italystf

Alex_ZR said:


> It was, but that aqueduct isn't Roman:
> 
> http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acquedotto_del_Nottolini


Yes, a part of it was demolished when the highway was duplicated in 1962. Now they would probably have dug a tunnel beneath it.
The first carriaggeway was opened already in 1933.


x-type said:


> is italian tolling system the oldest in Europe?


I think so, since it started in 1924.


----------



## John Maynard

edit


----------



## John Maynard

x-type said:


> is italian tolling system the oldest in Europe?


If you understand "tolling system" as being only for motorways, so yes Italy had the first tolled "Autostrada" in Europe.
By the way, this "Autostrada" had nothing in common with today's definition of a motorway: it had non-separated 2-3 lanes, suicide lane to overtake, at-grade junctions, but was reserved for motorized vehicles only (a "revolution" at the time).
But, if it's for road tolls in overall, it was very common throughout Europe in the Middle Ages, and until the 20th century. 
So, the concept wasn't new at all when it was introduced for this first "Autostrada" at the time.

Autostrada dei Laghi toll booth near Milan, 1929:


















Inauguration of Autostrada dei Laghi, 21 September 1924:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think the Italian autostrade was the first tolled road for high-speed traffic in Europe. 

Of course, there were historic turnpikes that date back to the middle ages. And toll bridges have been around since the beginning of motorization. Tolls also existed on Roman Roads 2500 years ago.

However, there was one motor vehicle toll road before the Italian autostrade, the Long Island Motor Parkway near New York in 1908.


----------



## stickedy

italystf said:


> Is there somewhere in Germany (or Austria, Poland, Russia's Kaliningrad oblast) a stretch of _Reichautobahn _still preserved in its original shape? For example some short stretches that were bypassed by new allignments instead of being upgraded in site.


In Germany, there are no original parts anymore. However, there are some historical ramps and such things on some motorways. But they aren't in service anymore.


----------



## Kemo

italystf said:


> Is there somewhere in Germany (or Austria, Poland, Russia's Kaliningrad oblast) a stretch of _Reichautobahn _still preserved in its original shape? For example some short stretches that were bypassed by new allignments instead of being upgraded in site.


The only untouched segment of RAB Breslau-Gleiwitz (about 100m):
http://maps.google.pl/maps?ll=50.34...=3d-DZ9RE-WYMT7-bOS7a6g&cbp=12,355.28,,1,7.46

There is also a whole 70 km of old RAB Berlin-Breslau, still with original pavement 
https://maps.google.pl/maps?saddr=D...=3BSN-kebABE4EvtP7MpypQ&cbp=12,319.25,,1,7.91

More untouched parts of RAB Berlin-Konigsberg
https://maps.google.pl/maps?q=elblą...=vabMXQqPAncWQZ5Mk1BW5g&cbp=12,206.43,,1,5.51

There are also some unused viaducts on RAB Breslau-Wien
https://maps.google.pl/maps?q=brno&...d=nX4zl9cS2qQwlOriyQ96dw&cbp=12,110.22,,0,0.6


----------



## bewu1

And the section RAB Berlin - Stettin - Konigsberg - east of Szczecin - now DW142 https://www.google.pl/maps/place/Sz...2!3m1!1s0x47aa093800d3a759:0xa95adc4e5f8ac4f3


----------



## Luki_SL

^^ld: Look at post #1048


----------



## Verso

Year 1941:









http://www.rtvslo.si/blog/herta-5j9o/?&date=2012&page=6

This must be in Ptuj (now Slovenia), because Ormož is just 23 km away (btw, Budapest is 340+ km away, not 34). Too bad I can't read towns on the right arrows, but I think it says Ljubljana on the bottom one (I think I see "LJ" in the beginning and in the middle of the name). It could say Maribor on the top one, but I don't know about the middle one (only Slovenska Bistrica comes to my mind).


----------



## aswnl

Just stretch the picture horizontally...










Maribor
Rogaska Slatina ?? Rogatec Slatina ??
Ljubljana


----------



## Verso

Great trick!  Yes, indeed it says Rog(aška) Slatina.


----------



## volodaaaa

More: First motorways in Slovakia (note, this is the first time the photos were published):


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ aside from the sign could have been taken yesterday :lol:

at first I saw "malacky" and read it as Greek :lol:


----------



## xrtn2

São paulo - Rio 


Rodovia Presidente Dutra - Sāo Paulo/SP, BRASIL by Werner keifer, on Flickr


----------



## Maciek_CK

*Poland, A4 under construction, Prądy interchange (DK46), 1990s. Current view*









source: GDDKiA


----------



## verreme

Some pictures I found on a cool Facebook page about Spanish roads called EN LA CARRETERA.

M-30 in Madrid, early 1990s (looks like the Eastern arc):










Same road, same time, different place (M-30 West I guess):










Some flyover in Madrid, early 1990s too (didn't identify the exact location):


----------



## ajch

verreme said:


> Some flyover in Madrid, early 1990s too (didn't identify the exact location):


It is "calle joaquin costa" bridge over "paseo de la castellana". The buiding in front is part of the "nuevos ministerios" government office complex.

https://goo.gl/maps/JYO2Whttp://


----------



## Peines

verreme said:


> Same road, same time, different place (M-30 West I guess):


Here


----------



## Alex_ZR

verreme said:


> Some flyover in Madrid, early 1990s too (didn't identify the exact location):


Lada Samara was sold in Spain?


----------



## Corvinus

Alex_ZR said:


> Lada Samara was sold in Spain?


Don't know about Spain, but it was definitely marketed in W. Germany! Their slogan in the brochures was "Lada verspricht nicht - Lada garantiert". According to the brochures, there was a network of 700 Lada dealers across W. Germany at that time. 
Let's not deny that from Socialist-block production, the Samara was one of the best cars, and so a real alternative for some budget buyers in the West. 
(And of course non-Western non-Socialist countries like Turkey also imported a lot of them).


----------



## NordikNerd

Corvinus said:


> Don't know about Spain, but it was definitely marketed in W. Germany!


Lada was sold all over Europe in the 1980's and even in the UK. 

The new *LADA Kalina* and *LADA Granta* are marketed in Sweden. I dont know if they will sell much of those cars elsewhere in the western hemisphere.

Sad photo quality on those Madrid photos. Has the innercity traffic increased since the 1990's ? did they introduce tolls or license plate bans like they have in Paris ?


----------



## MattiG

NordikNerd said:


> The new *LADA Kalina* and *LADA Granta* are marketed in Sweden.


Lada Kalina is not best possible name in Finland. The word "kalina" means the sound of a soon-breaking engine. That is why the cars were sold as Lada 1117, 1118, and 1119.

The sales of Lada in Finland was brought down in 2012 after selling one car in 2011. In 2010, significantly higher number of cars were sold: four. That was a big drop from 2009 where 109 new Ladas were sold: 70 Nivas and 39 Kalinas.

There still are about 20000 Ladas in use in Finland (or at least registered).


----------



## NordikNerd

MattiG said:


> Lada Kalina is not best possible name in Finland. The word "kalina" means the sound of a soon-breaking engine. That is why the cars were sold as Lada 1117, 1118, and 1119.
> 
> The sales of Lada in Finland was brought down in 2012 after selling one car in 2011. In 2010, significantly higher number of cars were sold: four. That was a big drop from 2009 where 109 new Ladas were sold: 70 Nivas and 39 Kalinas.
> 
> There still are about 20000 Ladas in use in Finland (or at least registered).


Historically Finland was the "western" country with the best selling market for russian cars during the soviet times. 
Selling one new car a year is an obvious reason for closing the general agency of Lada in Finland.

The Lada Niva hasnt changed much since 1977 except for a few facelifts. Who wants to buy this car when you have the more modern Dacia Duster at the same price. 
The only advantage with the old Niva is that it's easy to repair.


----------



## keber

Lada Niva and Dacia Duster are not in the same league.


----------



## MattiG

NordikNerd said:


> Historically Finland was the "western" country with the best selling market for russian cars during the soviet times.
> Selling one new car a year is an obvious reason for closing the general agency of Lada in Finland.
> 
> The Lada Niva hasnt changed much since 1977 except for a few facelifts. Who wants to buy this car when you have the more modern Dacia Duster at the same price.
> The only advantage with the old Niva is that it's easy to repair.


I presume the "easy to repair" attribute is the key reason why the Russians bought back most of the used Ladas after the collapse of Soviet Union.


----------



## NordikNerd

MattiG said:


> I presume the "easy to repair" attribute is the key reason why the Russians bought back most of the used Ladas after the collapse of Soviet Union.


Those reimported finnish Ladas were considered to be of much higher value than the Ladas driven only in Russia, because the finnish roads didnt wear down the cars as much.


----------



## verreme

Alex_ZR said:


> Lada Samara was sold in Spain?


Yes. Lada entered Spain in the 1980s; the Niva was a huge success, like in France, and there are many left in mountain areas. The Samara (called the anti-Seat Ibiza by some Spanish magazines, due to the fact that both cars were engineered by Porsche ) sold quite well for the car it was -clearly behind its Western European counterparts, or other Eastern Bloc cars such as the Skoda Favorit. However, due to its poor reliability (and I guess bad customer service), there are almost none left today.

Late Trabants and Wartburgs, as well as some Dacias, AROs and even Polski Fiats, were also sold in Spain in the late 80s, but in much smaller numbers.



NordikNerd said:


> Lada was sold all over Europe in the 1980's and even in the UK.
> 
> The new *LADA Kalina* and *LADA Granta* are marketed in Sweden. I dont know if they will sell much of those cars elsewhere in the western hemisphere.
> 
> Sad photo quality on those Madrid photos. Has the innercity traffic increased since the 1990's ? did they introduce tolls or license plate bans like they have in Paris ?


In the 1990s and 2000s M-40 and M-50 opened, relieving M-30 and the inner city streets. M-30 was also rebuilt and widened, and on its Southern part, a bypass was built (and the former route has been kept, so there are now two M-30s). Don't know if traffic is better or worse in the streets of the city. I guess it's better, like in Barcelona since 1992. Madrid ranks very low in TomTom's congestion ranking. It's one of the least congested European big cities -yet the city's municipal Government is preparing some draconian restrictions for car traffic hno:.


----------



## Uppsala

volodaaaa said:


> More: First motorways in Slovakia (note, this is the first time the photos were published):





Kanadzie said:


> ^^ aside from the sign could have been taken yesterday :lol:
> 
> at first I saw "malacky" and read it as Greek :lol:


Not with that streetligts. They looks like 1960s och 1970s, but not today


----------



## Uppsala

Luki_SL said:


> ^^DW142, Poland :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.google.pl/maps/@53.4260...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1se8T11LFMKLAYCcMzYmiHpQ!2e0


I love to drive on DW 142. Its like the forgotten motorway. An old secret motorway from the past. And also a little bit like a "ghostmotorway" 

And it is so very special feeling when I drive from Berlin and ending at the little village Lisowo where this motorway ending.

Everytime I use this motorway I thinking about if the people in the village Lisowo knows about they are living close to a historical motorway?


----------



## RV

NordikNerd said:


> Historically Finland was the "western" country with the best selling market for russian cars during the soviet times.
> Selling one new car a year is an obvious reason for closing the general agency of Lada in Finland.
> 
> The Lada Niva hasnt changed much since 1977 except for a few facelifts. Who wants to buy this car when you have the more modern Dacia Duster at the same price.
> The only advantage with the old Niva is that it's easy to repair.


Lada and Moskvich were Finland's most popular cars until about 1990. Lada was marketed with the pretext that if there was any problem with the car, it was easy to fix just on the road. And well, after all they were cheap and Fiat/Opel copies..


----------



## italystf

Uppsala said:


> I love to drive on DW 142. Its like the forgotten motorway. An old secret motorway from the past. And also a little bit like a "ghostmotorway"
> 
> And it is so very special feeling when I drive from Berlin and ending at the little village Lisowo where this motorway ending.
> 
> Everytime I use this motorway I thinking about if the people in the village Lisowo knows about they are living close to a historical motorway?


Usually repaving bad road is a good thing, but I hope this one will never be repaved, as is a historical heritage!


----------



## negolb

u/c M1:









M1+M7:









M7:


----------



## Corvinus

^^ Hungary (for those who haven't guessed  )


----------



## xrtn2

*Via Anchieta Brazil*

Via Anchieta by Werner keifer, on Flickr


----------



## NordikNerd

Mateusz said:


> This picture was taken near Miłobądz about 30 years ago. It's current National Road DK1/E75


I wonder what the strap hanging down on that white VAZ was for.

Is it some kind of lightning rod ?


----------



## Alex_ZR

NordikNerd said:


> I wonder what the strap hanging down on that white VAZ was for.
> 
> Is it some kind of lightning rod ?


I think it's something related to static electricity. Many old cars had such straps.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^This is exactly such a thing


----------



## ZakuOP

This white car is not a VAZ but Polski Fiat 125 alias Fiat 125p.


----------



## NordikNerd

Alex_ZR said:


> I think it's something related to static electricity. Many old cars had such straps.


Why did they have these static electricity straps only in eastern europe, did it have something to do with the vehicles or with the roads ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Many cars in the Netherlands also had them.


----------



## verreme

^^ That was very common in Spain, too -they advertised a number of benefits from discharging the car of static electricity, though I think there was no scientific evidence behind them.


----------



## volodaaaa

I was told it has something with car radio. Might have been fooled.


----------



## stickedy

It's a mystery and I asked myself that also when I was young. It was quite common in the 80ies. Interestingly, I can't remember seeing any Japanese or US-american cars with those strips...


----------



## GTSUK

They were marketed as a cure for car sickness....the idea was that by discharging static electricity you wouldn't suffer motion sickness,

I doubt there is any science to it, but I guess loads of people believed in it as it was very common in the 70s & 80s


----------



## Stavros86

*Thessaloniki, Greece:*
Old junction of National Road 2 with National Road 12, long before A2 came into place.

Circa 1980:










How it is now:


----------



## aswnl

Greece ?



_Edit: I found it._


----------



## ea1969

^^
Yes. Just to the north of Thessaloniki.

_Edit: Sorry, I hadn't noticed your added message _


----------



## piotr71

*I like trucking...*

Rowan Atkinson and suicide lanes...and hedgehogs


----------



## xrtn2

Old Via Dutra, São Paulo to Rio/ Brazil


Via Dutra, trecho entre o Rio de Janeiro/RJ e Sāo Paulo/SP, a quarta pista estava em construçāo, 1973. Digitalizaçāo: Werner Keifer by Werner Keifer, no Flickr


----------



## xrtn2

Porto Alegre to Osorio Brazil


Via expressa ligando o Porto Alegre/RS a Osório/RS e á BR101, 13/09/1975. Digitalizaçāo: Werner Keifer by Werner Keifer, no Flickr


----------



## BL2

Yugoslavia:

Belgrade 70s










Zagreb 60s



















Adriatic coastal highway Yugoslavia 60s










New Danube bridge testing in Novi Sad


----------



## volodaaaa

Two questions:
1. where is the Belgrade Phantom 
2. The last photo seems to be Beska bridge. It was originally built in full profile.


----------



## BL2

1. Belgrade phantom ended his carrier back in 70s



















2. it is Sloboda bridge in Novi Sad

construction No.2 after Nato destroyed it 










testing again


----------



## Alex_ZR

^^ Second one is I think border of Yugoslavia and Austria.


----------



## piotr71

Yup. It's probably Wurzen Pass - Korensko:









Same border crossing a bit earlier and now:


----------



## Verso

^^ That's from 2004-2007.


----------



## piotr71

When I said 'now', I actually meant most recent (historic ) image I could find


----------



## Highway89

Just came across this great Flickr gallery and had to share some of the pics 


Allegheny Mountain Tunnel, PA Turnpike, Oct 1950 by Leon Reed, en Flickr


Michigan road scene, 1951 by Leon Reed, en Flickr



Border crossing, US-Canada (Port Erie, Ontario to Buffalo, NY), June 1952 by Leon Reed, en Flickr


Florida, 1953

Road and lake in Florida by Leon Reed, en Flickr


Florida State Line, March 1953 by Leon Reed, en Flickr


Virginia mountains, on the way home from Florida, 1953 by Leon Reed, en Flickr



First section of the New York Thruway, Rochester exit, right after it opened,1954 by Leon Reed, en Flickr


Tunnel on Blue Ridge Parkway, 1954 by Leon Reed, en Flickr


Along US Route 40 near Fruitlands, Utah, 1956 by Leon Reed, en Flickr


Flat land in the plains, and lots of it, 1956 by Leon Reed, en Flickr


Road up Mount Washington, 1957 by Leon Reed, en Flickr



Tollbooth, Will Rogers Turnpike, December 1958 by Leon Reed, en Flickr

Hoover Dam, Nevada, 1960

Hoover Dam by Leon Reed, en Flickr



Canadian Rockies, 1962 by Leon Reed, en Flickr



Construction delay, Trans-Canada Highway, 1962 by Leon Reed, en Flickr


Trans-Canada Highway, 1962 by Leon Reed, en Flickr


Trans-Canada Highway construction, 1962 by Leon Reed, en Flickr


Main street, Morse, Saskatchewan, 1962 by Leon Reed, en Flickr


Trailer in the Rockies, Glacier National Park, 1962 by Leon Reed, en Flickr


Country road in Washington by Leon Reed, en Flickr


Mackinac Bridge, 1962 by Leon Reed, en Flickr


Route 1 in California, 1971 by Leon Reed, en Flickr


Bear and traffic at Yellowstone, 1971 by Leon Reed, en Flickr


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## italystf

^^ Nice reportage, it's difficult to find high-resolution color pics from that period. They were surely taken with professional photograph equipment


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## BL2

Trieste was the sopping Mekka for Yugoslavian citizen, thousands of them went to shop there every day. 
Road leading to Trieste i guess early 80s


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## italystf

^^Do you know which border crossing is?


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## tooljan

BL2 said:


> Trieste was the sopping Mekka for Yugoslavian citizen, thousands of them went to shop there every day.
> Road leading to Trieste i guess 70s


Nope. On that picture is Zastava 101 GTL 55, so picture itself are made in '80s, probably late '80s.


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## BL2

actually they were produced from 1983. so it can be early 80s.
Crossing is either Pesek, Škofije or Fernetici.


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## italystf

BL2 said:


> Crossing is either Pesek, Škofije or Fernetici.


I know, but I tried to figure which one.


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## Corvinus

Piece of East Berlin: a GDR government members' motorcade of well-known black Volvos proceeding from Berlin-Mitte via Wilhelm-Pieck-Strasse (where this photo was taken) toward their shielded residential area in Wandlitz. The photo was taken in 1983 by a GDR photographer who captured many images of the real Socialism not shown in official propaganda. 










(Src with other images)


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## NordikNerd

Corvinus said:


> Piece of East Berlin: a GDR government members' motorcade of well-known black Volvos proceeding from Berlin-Mitte via Wilhelm-Pieck-Strasse (where this photo was taken) toward their shielded residential area in Wandlitz.


Interesting that the communist party elite rode Volvo and not Mercedes, it was clearly a political choice to buy Volvo cars instead, in order to show opposition against West Germany. Sweden was considered to be somewhat more socialist oriented than other western countries, maybe that's why Volvo became the main supplier of limousins to the GDR. BTW Wandlitz was called Volvograd back then.

The Soviet union manufactured their own limousine, the ZIL so their polit-buro members didnt need to ride western brands.


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## italystf

NordikNerd said:


> Interesting that the communist party elite rode Volvo and not Mercedes, it was clearly a political choice to buy Volvo cars instead, in order to show opposition against West Germany. Sweden was considered to be somewhat more socialist oriented than other western countries, maybe that's why Volvo became the main supplier of limousins to the GDR. BTW Wandlitz was called Volvograd back then.
> 
> The Soviet union manufactured their own limousine, the ZIL so their polit-buro members didnt need to ride western brands.


Probably because Sweden, unlike West Germany, wasn't a NATO and EEC member, but it was officially neutral (although _de facto_ was part of the Western free world).
However, if they were coherent with their ideals, East German politicians should have driven Trabants. But... some animals were more equal than others...


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## aswnl

Honecker drove a (French) Citroen
http://www.autobild.de/klassik/bilder/jubilaeum-des-mauerfalls-die-autos-der-ddr-1265702.html#bild69


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## Kanadzie

NordikNerd said:


> The Soviet union manufactured their own limousine, the ZIL so their polit-buro members didnt need to ride western brands.


The 3rd car in picture is a ZIL

Looking at Volvo 240 as limousine just makes me laugh :lol:

In North America this was a kind of car maybe your maths teacher in 7th grade would drive :lol:

I wonder though why they insisted for Volvo (and Honecker Citroen CX, though maybe he just had taste), when could have ZIL (ugh) or even the palatable Tatra 613. Maybe the ZIL was just too bad and Tatra would annoy the refugees (but how many even went to DDR?). Maybe it was "state trade", send some Volvo to DDR in exchange for IKEA furniture made by prisoners or something. Volvo sent some Volvo 144 to North Korea in 1970's also, still driving around there, but apparently North Korea never paid for them :lol:



italystf said:


> Probably because Sweden, unlike West Germany, wasn't a NATO and EEC member, but it was officially neutral (although de facto was part of the Western free world).


But driving a _West German_ car would be especially verboten for them. Even an American car would be more politically acceptable. 
The West German car industry putting out Mercedes, Porsche and VW Golf compared to DDR with Wartburg and Trabant was just one blatantly obvious example of the inferiority of socialism...


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## volodaaaa

Kanadzie said:


> The 3rd car in picture is a ZIL
> 
> Looking at Volvo 240 as limousine just makes me laugh :lol:
> 
> In North America this was a kind of car maybe your maths teacher in 7th grade would drive :lol:
> 
> I wonder though why they insisted for Volvo (and Honecker Citroen CX, though maybe he just had taste), when could have ZIL (ugh) or even the palatable Tatra 613. Maybe the ZIL was just too bad and Tatra would annoy the refugees (but how many even went to DDR?). Maybe it was "state trade", send some Volvo to DDR in exchange for IKEA furniture made by prisoners or something. Volvo sent some Volvo 144 to North Korea in 1970's also, still driving around there, but apparently North Korea never paid for them :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> But driving a _West German_ car would be especially verboten for them. Even an American car would be more politically acceptable.
> The West German car industry putting out Mercedes, Porsche and VW Golf compared to DDR with Wartburg and Trabant was just one blatantly obvious example of the inferiority of socialism...


Tatra 613 was ugly, but 603 is a masterpiece.


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## italystf

Kanadzie said:


> Maybe it was "state trade", send some Volvo to DDR in exchange for IKEA furniture made by prisoners or something.


Weird story. It's known that the capitalistic IKEA used slave labor from East German political prisoners to build furniture cheaply. It's quite ironical if you consider that IKEA's founder had nazi sympathy during WWII.
Even worse, Bayer, the big (West) German pharmaceutical company, also stipulated a secret pact with GDR authorities to conduct medical experiments on East German prisoners, causing the death of some of them (it was similar to something Germans had done before hno: ).
Like usual, when it come to economic interests, nobody cares of ideologies.


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## poshbakerloo

*Arundel Gate, Sheffield.
*
A new road built through the city centre in the 1960s-70s. The road sill exists but has been hugely downgraded since the 1990s.

Under construction...









Just before opening...









After opening...


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## verreme

^^ Who on Earth thought that pedestrian underpasses were a good idea? There are a lot of them in my hometown, too, and they have the obvious problems associated with them -smell, darkness, and crime. It's good that they're being replaced with proper crossings all over Europe, be it putting the road itself underground or by means of a zebra crossing.


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## Mateusz

It will be downgraded even more in the future. At least that section near SHU's Howard building. That's roughly an area on a third picture.


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## poshbakerloo

verreme said:


> ^^ Who on Earth thought that pedestrian underpasses were a good idea? There are a lot of them in my hometown, too, and they have the obvious problems associated with them -smell, darkness, and crime. It's good that they're being replaced with proper crossings all over Europe, be it putting the road itself underground or by means of a zebra crossing.


I think they are good on paper...But as usual with these things, the reality is very different! Arundel Gate in Sheffield is now just a flat 2 lane road with level pedestrian crossings.


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## italystf

verreme said:


> ^^ Who on Earth thought that pedestrian underpasses were a good idea? There are a lot of them in my hometown, too, and they have the obvious problems associated with them -smell, darkness, and crime. It's good that they're being replaced with proper crossings all over Europe, be it putting the road itself underground or by means of a zebra crossing.


Another downside of pedestrian underpasses is that they usually have stairs (a ramp would be either very long or very steep), so they aren't accessible to disabled or people carrying child prams or trolley suitcases.


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## marmurr1916

Ingenioren said:


> Before the E6 was upgraded to motorway we used to have a wide shoulder 2-lane road in both countries. In Sweden this worked as a passing lane - but in Norway only as an emergency stopping lane.
> 
> Norway:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Naturally we all loved the Swedish way of driving since it meant it was almost like a 4-lane road, but every now and then you would get behind a slow Norwegian that didn't understand the Swedish system.
> 
> Now there are few remaining as center-barriers have been installed.


Just like in Ireland (photo: old N9 Moone bypass, now superseded by the M9 motorway and reclassified as a regional road):












x-type said:


> *more confusing to me is Ireland, which uses dashed yellow lines at left edges only (both on motorways and state roads)*


We do use yellow edge markings in Ireland - but broken lines are only used on non-motorway roads, solid lines are used on motorways (photo - M8 motorway):


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## Corvinus

The prestigious German paper "Zeit" has published a couple of photos of transit roads between West Germany and West Berlin through GDR territory. The series is titled "25 years since the fall of the wall - trip through no man's land".
The introductory says taking photos along the transit routes was strictly prohibited. Luckily, there were photographers ignoring this rule. 
Strict rules were in vigour for drivers on the transit motorways. The speed limit was the GDR's motorway limit at 100km/h. Infractions triggered harsh fines, to be paid in West German currency by transit travelers.

Now, off to the photos:

1. Notice the "Hauptstadt der DDR" suffix for Berlin - this was mandatory when referring to East Berlin.











2. One of the many watchtowers along transit routes. 










3. Western travelers on the transit routes had to pay for gasoline with West German mark. Precious source of hard currency for the GDR.









4. "Western" and "Eastern" cars mixing on the parkings. 











5. Typical speed trap as operated by the Volkspolizei. Well hidden and in general impossible to detect in time by "speeders" (5-10 km/h of excess were already sanctioned; the fine could quickly amount to 100 DM and above if the transit traveller drove a Mercedes or other prestigious car).











6. Ads for GDR products on motorway bridge. These had virtually no success with Western travellers.











7. GDR citizens were allowed to drive on the transit routes (after all, these were located in their own country...), but were subject to frequent controls.











8. Entering West Berlin from the transit route was strictly monitored as well, mainly to prevent any GDR citizen be smuggled across in a transit-traffic vehicle.










Article source: http://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/2014-10/transit-ddr-mauerfall-fs


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## BL2

who built and cared for this road?


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## italystf

^^ Probably it was built as _Reichautobahn _before WWII, when obviously it was a normal German domestic route.
In the 70s and 80s, after Willy Brandt established diplomatic relationships with GDR, the FRG gave some money to GDR to maintain the transit motorways between W. Germany and W. Berlin. However, highways in the East still received virtually no maintenance and by the beginning of the 90s they still looked like the original _reichautobahnnen_, with a disastrous pavement and speed limited to 100 (GDR-made cars were limited to that speed too).


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## darko06

italystf said:


> ^^ (I)t was built as _Reich(s)autobahn _before WWII, ...
> ... (H)ighways in the East ... by the beginning of the 90s ... still looked like the original _(R)eich(s)autobahnnen_, with a disastrous pavement and speed limited to 100 (GDR-made cars were limited to that speed too).


No wonder that almost all DDR citizens dreamed all the time how to became a part of the Bundesrepublik Deutschland (party officials excluded). :lol:


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## aswnl

italystf said:


> ^^ Probably it was built as _Reichautobahn _before WWII, when obviously it was a normal German domestic route.
> In the 70s and 80s, after Willy Brandt established diplomatic relationships with GDR, the FRG gave some money to GDR to maintain the transit motorways between W. Germany and W. Berlin. However, highways in the East still received virtually no maintenance and by the beginning of the 90s they still looked like the original _reichautobahnnen_, with a disastrous pavement and speed limited to 100 (GDR-made cars were limited to that speed too).


The A14 Borsdorf-Dresden was completely built by the DDR. They also built the A19 and A24 with spur to Schwerin, of which the A24 had already been aligned as RAB, and the northwesternpart of the A10 Berliner Ring.


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## Corvinus

According to German Wikipedia, the financial contributions of the FRG to the GDR for rail and road transit infrastructure projects reached a total of 2210.5 million DM. This did not include the _Transitpauschale_, a de facto road toll "flat rate" charged every year by the GDR. From 1972 to 1975, this was 234.9 million DM annually, while in 1989, the last applicable year, it already amounted to 525 million DM.


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## Kanadzie

darko06 said:


> No wonder that almost all DDR citizens dreamed all the time how to became a part of the Bundesrepublik Deutschland (party officials excluded). :lol:


admittedly the extremely strict enforcement of the DDR Tempo 100 and the commonly unrestricted limits of the BRD were a clear and tangible aspect of freedom. Mind you, taking a _Trabant _over 100 takes patience, skill and borderline insanity. Notice how the VoPo in the pictures are equipped with high-performance imported police pursuit vehicles - _Polski Fiat_ :lol:


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## Eulanthe

An interesting anecdote from the DDR transit routes in 1990 - after border controls were scrapped on the 1st July 1990, DDR laws still remained in place - such as the aforementioned Tempo 100 and the zero tolerance for drink driving. I've read an account somewhere that the DDR traffic police were still very strict during that time. There were also still some cases of people from both the BRD and DDR getting caught in the 'other' state without the right equipment. From what I gather, the "Berlin, Haupstadt der DDR" signs also vanished after the 1st of July 1990 - even though it was still very much legally the capital of the DDR. 

Another curiosity is that Polish visas were actually sold on the A2/A12 within the DDR at that time too. Poland appeared to have a strange policy at that time of simply selling visas to tourists - similar to Egypt today.

What I'm not clear on is whether a West German visa after 1.07.90 was actually valid for entry into the DDR or not.


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## stickedy

Eulanthe said:


> What I'm not clear on is whether a West German visa after 1.07.90 was actually valid for entry into the DDR or not.


Yes, it was:
http://www.morgenpost.de/berlin/berliner-mauer/article139719963/Wegfall-der-Grenzkontrollen.html
https://books.google.de/books?id=XS...page&q=wegfall personenkontrollen ddr&f=false
http://www.budapest.diplo.de/Vertre...__Einheit__Juni__2.html?archive=2993436#link5
http://deutschlandreise.freiheit-un...it/1990-06-27-wegfall-personalkontrollen.html


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## MattiG

*Leppävaara, Espoo, Finland*

An ancient view at Leppävaara, in the outskirts of Helsinki. The road behind is the old road 1 from Helsinki to Turku.










This is how it looks today. The old road 1 is now the regional road 110.










The areal view shows that the place is currently a transportation and a commercial hub. The Ring 1 of Helsinki and the railway west main line meet here, and it is a terminus of the local bus traffic.










The red tick mark shows the approximate place of the old picture.


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## NordikNerd

italystf said:


> However, highways in the East still received virtually no maintenance and by the beginning of the 90s they still looked like the original _reichautobahnnen_, with a disastrous pavement and speed limited to 100 (GDR-made cars were limited to that speed too).


I rode a bus in the DDR in 1987 and as far as I can remember the motorways had no asphalt, the roadway was only blocks of concrete with bumpy joints inbetween. I dont think it would be comfortable to drive faster than 100km/h anyway. 

I wonder what the procedure would be if your car broke down on a transit drive on the motorway to West-Berlin. Did you have to tow it out of the country ?


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## Alex_ZR

NordikNerd said:


> I rode a bus in the DDR in 1987 and as far as I can remember the motorways had no asphalt, the roadway was o*nly blocks of concrete with bumpy joints inbetween*. I dont think it would be comfortable to drive faster than 100km/h anyway.


That reminds me of Prague-Brno motorway which is still in use today. Even reconstructed sections are made of concrete.


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## aswnl

NordikNerd said:


> I rode a bus in the DDR in 1987


I also made a bustrip through the DDR in 1987 with my school-class. We traveled from Werra via Eisenach and Weimar to Leipzig. A lot of other trips were on F-roads. Cobblestones with some bad asphalt at the roadside. Even on the F2 (now B2) between Leipzig and Lutherstadt-Wittenberg.
As far as I know only parts of the F2 (B2) between Leipzig Südvorstadt and Großdeuben (abzweig Zwenkau) I have seen an asphalt road in a not all too bad shape. I also remember the complete moon-landscape east of the F2 over there...


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## Corvinus

^^ Maybe for international folks, let's add that "F" meant _Fernstraße _("long-distance road"), which in the hierarchy of roads were corresponding to the West German _Bundesstraßen _(B-roads).

Another interesting detail regarding DDR transit: Until 1982, there was no motorway connection between Hamburg and West Berlin. Transit traffic had to use the F5 road. This was the only transit route allowing vehicles that were not permitted to use motorways (like bicycles, scooters, tractors). The F5 ran through numerous towns, and transit trips took 5-6 hours from the border to West Berlin.

Both West and East Germany were in favor of building a motorway for this route which was completed in 1982. West Germany of course was interested in fast and smooth transit, while the DDR sought to reduce contacts between West and East Germans to a minimum possible.


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## NordikNerd

Corvinus said:


> West Germany of course was interested in fast and smooth transit, while the DDR sought to reduce contacts between West and East Germans to a minimum possible.


Yes the DDR tried to isolate West-Berlin, they didnt make it easy for westgermans to get there, but on the other hand the DDR was dependant on the revenue from outsiders so they could get hard currency. That's why they had the Intershops along the transit-roads. Also the DDR let the BRD build the Hamburg-Berlin motorway, although that improved transit for the BRD (which they didnt like), but the DDR did get a new motorway for free. So the money was obviously more important than the national pride.









I think this is the motorway Hamburg-Berlin in 1986

Now 26 years after the fall of communism, it's hard to believe that there was a communist regime like North Korea in the heart of Europe. I went there in 1987, it was a very cheap politically subsidized youth trip by the international friendship association Sweden-DDR.


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## italystf

Kanadzie said:


> admittedly the extremely strict enforcement of the DDR Tempo 100 and the commonly unrestricted limits of the BRD were a clear and tangible aspect of freedom. Mind you, taking a _Trabant _over 100 takes patience, skill and borderline insanity. Notice how the VoPo in the pictures are equipped with high-performance imported police pursuit vehicles - _Polski Fiat_ :lol:


Back then, there were other countries that limited personal freedom even more! For example, the United States with their 55mi\h (88km\h) policy. :troll:


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## MattiG

I made three trips to the ex-DRR in 1991, 1996, and 2001 in order to see the recovery and the development.

During the first trip, the plan to find nice places for picnic was abandoned: Most of the vehicles still were Trabis, and the air was full of their exhaust gas. At the same time, very efficient inefficiency was easily visible. For instance, most of the railway crossings were level ones. The barriers were operated by a human being, and they were closed according to the time table of the train. If the train was 30 minutes late, then the barriers were closed for 30 minutes.

The trip in 1996 took place among intensive construction. The most disastrous bridges and motorway junctions had been replaced. During that trip, tens of towns and villages were replacing their water and power systems. The travel time was unpredictable due to number of road works.

In 2001, the old border between BRD and DDR was not any more easily visible. Still, some distinctive marks were still visible, like the eastern type street lights. Earlier, the area of DDR was recognized from the triangular things at roads (below), but those were later adopted in the west, too.


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## italystf

^^And obviously different pedestrian traffic lights!

West Germany









East Germany


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## Tenjac

NordikNerd said:


> it's hard to believe that there was a communist regime like North Korea in the heart of Europe. I went there in 1987,


I think that this fact prove that DDR was not like DPRK. Have you ever tried to travel to DPRK? It would be far more difficult then traveling to any European socialist (not communist; "communist country" is an oxymoron) country. Even the trip to USSR was not very difficult.


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## KIWIKAAS

Auckland, NZ. April 1973


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## italystf

Today I was at a library and I had the chance to look at a 1949 Italian encyclopedia.
At the entry "autostrada", it included the equivalent terms in other countries:
- routes pour automobiles in France (but it said that the Italian loanword autostrade was used too)
- motor road in the UK
- highspeed highway in the USA
- Autostrasse in Germany
All these terms, except the Italian autostrada, are obsolete now and were replaced by, respectively, autoroute, motorway, freeway and Autobahn. I though that the term Autobahn dated back to the 1930s.


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## keber

Not true, word Autobahn appears already in 1927:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsautobahn


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## ChrisZwolle

italystf said:


> - routes pour automobiles in France (but it said that the Italian loanword autostrade was used too)


The term 'autostrade' is still commonly used in Flanders (Belgium).

Autostrade is plural, but it is used in any situation in Flanders, as far as I know the term 'autostrada' (singular) is not used there.

Older people in the Netherlands often use the word 'autobaan' (basically a loanword from German Autobahn). The correct term is 'autosnelweg', commonly shortened to 'snelweg' (fast road).


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## Kanadzie

Autostrade was used in planning documents for what became autoroutes in Quebec, Canada (probably - invention of French word came interim)

Silesian part of PL says autobana instead of autostrada


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## radko

Hi, do you have interest know History of motorways. The pics are nice but not describe real building, in 30 yrs ago. I like create road map with motorway (2x2 and more) in time. For example 1965 - 201_ according sources. I will help, If you want know history motorway sections too. I m able draw building of road map in: France, Spain, Poland (without dual carriageways), Italy, Austria, Slovakia, Czechia, Hungary, Benelux, ulgaria, Russia (only 1994), Turkey. I dont know but i like draw Belarus, former USSR and Yugoslavia, China, India, Middle east, Japan (mainly Tokio Expressways bridges), Korea, The United states, Mexico, Canada, Malaysia...
I create your country but send me sources (maps, text) to : [email protected] ; maybe be statistics number of motorways (km), vehicles, traffic in sections.


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## Uppsala

Old Swedish streetlight. This model was very common everywhere in Sweden in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s. This model is very similar to the Polish ones from the same time. So Sweden actually had a very Eastern European style during the Cold War era. Today there are almost no remains of them in Sweden. Almost all are replaced with more modern ones.


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## RV

http://yle.fi/aihe/artikkeli/2008/05/16/kulosaaren-vanha-ja-uusi-silta

A historical video, constructing the Eastern Access's Kulosaari Bridge in Helsinki from 1955. Why it seems all was and were so optimistic back then! The old congested wooden bridge dated from 1918, and was in very critical condition, nearly collapsed, so they stopped tram traffic on it in the beginning of the 1950's.

The construction of the bridge and the expressway going through the recently annexed Kulosaari neighborhood was started in 1950, and finished in 1957. First they planned to build the metro in the middle of the motorway, but as it was too narrow, the metro bridge finally was built in the 70's on the northern side of the car bridge, and third lanes were added in the 60's on the road, dunno the exact time, but in 1970 they were temporarily converted into bus lanes before the metro system was finished. Sadly, there still are a huge quality of empty bus lanes and congested car lanes nearby in Helsinki, though it seems Helsinki's drivers have started to drive on the bus lanes too, as in the rest of Europe in some countries cars use shoulders on congested sections as lanes.

Until the construction of the Porvoo motorway far norther in 1971 the Eastern Access served as main route eastbound from Helsinki (National Routes 6/7).

The now vibrant central neighborhood of Sörnäinen was back then mainly an industrial area. Sadly most buildings were demolished. And sadly they didn't built the eastern central access while there was space.


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## wifon

Cover of DJ Mix "Fabric Live 69" - looks like unfinished part of infrastructure. Location unknown.


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## ChrisZwolle

It would be interesting to find out where that is. A google image search does not result in any clues, and when you search for 'unused bridge', it doesn't come up in the first pages of results, suggesting this may be a bridge outside the English language area (maybe something like South Korea or Taiwan?) The bridge structure also doesn't look very familiar in Europe. The thin bridge deck suggests it may not be a road bridge.


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## volodaaaa

Are you aware, that the image might be old and the unfinished structure already completed? It could be anywhere and if someone does not have a clue where it could be (at least country), I am afraid we won't figure it out.


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## ChrisZwolle

I think there is a bigger chance that is has been demolished than finished. The structure looks old and outdated.


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## volodaaaa

That too, of course...


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## italystf

Maybe someone can ask in the facebook page of the band.


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## MattiG

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think there is a bigger chance that is has been demolished than finished. The structure looks old and outdated.


It looks more an industrial structure rather than a part of road infrastructure.


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## keber

^^ It is more like an industrial bridge

There is real bridge constructed over railway in Slovenia, built in 1940 for a future bypass of village Boštanj which was never constructed as war begun. It still sits there unused, someday it will be demolished.










Google Streetview:
https://www.google.si/maps/@46.0084...1zZdvqnywn8HxYWEp4MA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=sl


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## kayron

Now it's just like a old souvenir of WWII


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## Autobahn-mann

aswnl said:


> More European countries had left hand driving before WW-II, like (parts of) Austria.


 ...or Czechoslowakia



italystf said:


> In Italy until around 1920 some areas drove on the right, other on the left.


Yes, the decision was of provincial and/or municipal jurisdiction! and often there was also difference between inside and outside of towns!
Right-hand drive was introduced during Fascist Era in 1923 (I've checked)


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## aswnl

DanielFigFoz said:


> Iceland switched from right to left druing the British occupation and later switched back again.


The switchback, was that in 1941 when the American occupation started or after the war ?


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## Alex_ZR

As Austro-Hungarian heritage, Austria drove on the left until Anschluss in 1938, Czechoslovakia converted from left to right in 1939, and Hungary in 1941.


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## Grotlaufen

aswnl said:


> The switchback, was that in 1941 when the American occupation started or after the war ?



It was supposed to take place in 1941 but the actual change didn't take place until 1968:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-dagurinn

As a side note, some Swedish military officers wanted to change side during WW2 in Sweden as well. There were many cases of accidents with lorry drivers that drove supplies across Finland (Petsamo and Liinahamari) and for reasons such as fatigue drove on the wrong (and fatal) side in Finland and Sweden.


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## volodaaaa

From Czechoslovakia (Czech Protectorate). It uses some english-based words "motorisovaná" = "motorised", trolleybus, etc.


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## Kanadzie

Autobahn-mann said:


> Right-hand drive was introduced during Fascist Era in 1923 (I've checked)


:lol:

Like during Cultural Revolution era in China when they were making people drive on the left and go on the red light and wait on the green light :lol::lol:


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## DannyBoy85

volodaaaa said:


> From Czechoslovakia (Czech Protectorate). It uses some english-based words "motorisovaná" = "motorised", trolleybus, etc.


I would say it's rather from latin verb "movere, moti, motum" (to move).


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## Alex_ZR

Nazi Germany implemented their driving rules in Czech protectorat in 1939. Photos from Prague in those days:










"In Prague drive on the right"

Advertisment about trams that changed their direction:










"Since March 26 we drive on the right"










"Drives on the right"

Traffic on the Wenceslas Square in Prague on the left-hand side in the 1930s:


----------



## Highway89

italystf said:


> In Italy until around 1920 some areas drove on the right, other on the left.





Autobahn-mann said:


> Yes, the decision was of provincial and/or municipal jurisdiction! and often there was also difference between inside and outside of towns!
> Right-hand drive was introduced during Fascist Era in 1923 (I've checked)


It was the same in Spain.

For instance, Madrid drove on the left and Barcelona on the right, until the 1st October 1924 when Madrid switched to right-hand traffic. It wasn't until 1934 when the first _Código de Circulación_ (i.e. Highway code, PDF) was passed, that the right-hand traffic became official in the whole country. The fine for driving on the left was 2 Pts (€ 0.012)  



> Sentido de circulación
> Artículo 21.
> Todos los vehículos, bestias de tiro, carga o silla y toda clase de animales, *circularán por la derecha de la calzada*, aun cuando el centro de aquélla se halle libre, sin invadir la zona correspondiente a los viandantes y paseos.
> La infracción se castigará con multa de dos pesetas y pago del daño que causen.


Nevertheless, left-hand traffic is still present in many railway lines, e.g. Madrid and Bilbao Metros and all the lines built by the Compañía de los Caminos de Hierro del Norte de España (CCHNE).


----------



## italystf

Kanadzie said:


> :lol:
> 
> Like during Cultural Revolution era in China when they were making people drive on the left and go on the red light and wait on the green light :lol::lol:


I don't think the driving on the right in the whole Italy in 1923 was introduced for political reasons. More simply, large parts of the country already drove on the right and having different rules within the country was highly impractical during automobile era (it was less impacting in the horse-carriage era, as people travelled overland shorter distances and at lower speed).
Moreover, few years earlier (1920), the first highway code and the first nation-wide signage system was introduced.


----------



## Yilku1

Avenida de Mayo in Buenos Aires, Argentina drove on the left until June 10, 1945










http://www.arcondebuenosaires.com.ar/calle_avenidaMayo-parte2.htm










http://www.arcondebuenosaires.com.ar/calle_avenida-mayo-parte3.htm

Ads about the change










"Pedestrian:

Before crossing look both ways. Help us prevent accidents.

Be aware! Remember that all vehicles drive on the right.

Watch your children!

Cooperate with the authorities abiding their instructions."











"Look out friends!

Before crossing
look both ways

The traffic direction is now right"

"Your hand is the right"

"Avoid traffic accidents. On June 10th, change direction and... keep on drinking Vermouth Cinzano"










"Drive on the right
at reduced speed"


----------



## Mateusz

>


Soviet motorway in 1985


----------



## Metra

http://www.sofia-guide.com/assets/old_sofia_picture.jpg
http://images.delcampe.com/img_large/auction/000/298/363/378_001.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Sofia_-_Old_Mosque_(W_Le_Queux).jpg


----------



## NordikNerd

*Reykjavik in 1968*









Lefthand traffic before May 26th 1968









On the morning of Sunday 26 May 1968, Iceland switched to right-hand traffic. The change took effect at. 6 in the morning after much preparation, effort and enormous costs. At present, approximately 72% of the total road network of the world is driven on the right.


----------



## General Maximus

Looks a bit more peaceful that Sweden. This is Stockholm the moment they switched sides...




























But after everyone has settled...


----------



## Corvinus

^^ Looks like the cars were LHD already, anticipating the switch of sides...


----------



## DanielFigFoz

They mostly always were in Sweden I believe.


----------



## Eulanthe

Found a brilliant movie here of the Zagreb-Belgrade Autoput. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWzKVxUVZWM

The toll station at the end has one of the weirdest things I've ever seen - tickets were handed manually to drivers instead of being issued through a machine.


----------



## binhai

They do that in Massachusetts too.


----------



## verreme

Eulanthe said:


> Found a brilliant movie here of the Zagreb-Belgrade Autoput.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWzKVxUVZWM
> 
> The toll station at the end has one of the weirdest things I've ever seen - tickets were handed manually to drivers instead of being issued through a machine.


I've seen this being done on a very busy holiday weekend in Spain. It's actually much faster than with the machine, since you take the ticket "on the fly".


----------



## Verso

Eulanthe said:


> The toll station at the end has one of the weirdest things I've ever seen - tickets were handed manually to drivers instead of being issued through a machine.


It was the same in Slovenia until 2008 (on the Ljubljana-Koper/Sežana motorway) and maybe it's still the same for trucks and buses. Isn't it still like this in Croatia?


----------



## Puležan

verreme said:


> I've seen this being done on a very busy holiday weekend in Spain. It's actually much faster than with the machine, since you take the ticket "on the fly".





Verso said:


> It was the same in Slovenia until 2008 (on the Ljubljana-Koper/Sežana motorway) and maybe it's still the same for trucks and buses. Isn't it still like this in Croatia?


In Croatia this is being done only on summer weekends at Lučko toll station, because it's faster than usual automatic way. Most people know how does Lučko look like on weekends in july and august :nuts:


----------



## elbong

*1966 Hungary*

M1/7 highway:









































M7 highway:

















source: fortepan


----------



## elbong

*1968 Hungary*

M1/7 highway:
































source: fortepan


----------



## elbong

*1969 Hungary*

M7 highway:








source: fortepan


----------



## elbong

*1970-71 Hungary*

















source: fortepan


----------



## elbong

*1972 Hungary*










M1/7 highway:

























M7 highway:
































source: fortepan


----------



## elbong

*1974 Hungary*

M1/7 highway








source: fortepan


----------



## elbong

*1935 Germany*









source: fortepan


----------



## Verso

elbong said:


>


Wien?! Hungarians couldn't even go to Vienna, so where is Győr??


----------



## bogdymol

^^ I think that picture was taken here.


----------



## elbong

*1944 Hungary*

The oldest motorway of Hungary, The Road to the Ferihegy Airport (RFA). Built in 1943 and basically the motorway was constant until the nineties.

1944, burying of bomb craters after the bombardment of the airport before the motorway:









1944, ruined buildings beside the road after the bombardament:









Ferihegy Airport in 1950 with the end of the motorway:









1960, underpasses of the RFA in original condition from the fourties:








































source: fortepan


----------



## Corvinus

elbong said:


> *1944 Hungary*
> 
> The oldest motorway of Hungary, The Road to the Ferihegy Airport (RFA). Built in 1943 and basically the motorway was constant until the nineties.


"Motorway" is not the correct term here - the road may have been reserved for motorized traffic (was it?) but, being a single carriageway, does not fulfill a basic motorway requirement. 
If only motorized traffic was authorized, then it was the first _Kraftfahrstraße _in the country.

So Hungary can beat no motorway records here, its first motorway is from the 1960's.


----------



## Autobahn-mann

^^Yep. But the international convenction to define Motorway was made in Vienna in 1966.
Italy have the first motorways in the world and was multilane with single carriageway


----------



## elbong

Corvinus said:


> "Motorway" is not the correct term here - the road may have been reserved for motorized traffic (was it?) but, being a single carriageway, does not fulfill a basic motorway requirement.
> If only motorized traffic was authorized, then it was the first _Kraftfahrstraße _in the country.
> 
> So Hungary can beat no motorway records here, its first motorway is from the 1960's.


The roads official name was this: _"Ferihegyi gyorsforgalmi út"_, the _"gyorsforgalmi"_ term is the _"motorway"_. We follow the French examples from the prewar Paris and partially the Italian with this road, but yes, the correct German name is the _"Kraftfahrstraße" (autóút)_. However, this was the age of the experimentation with many parameters and standard and this experimental road was the prototype of the planned Horthy-motorways.

Interesting, but we started following the German standard in the Soviet times only (1960).


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> Wien?! Hungarians couldn't even go to Vienna, so where is Győr??


Westerners visiting Hungary needed to know the route back to Vienna, so the few Hungarians allowed to visit the West (likely trusted members of the party).

By the way, I've seen photos of road signs pointing to Seoul in North Korea or to Ramallah in Jerusalem!


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> Westerners visiting Hungary needed to know the route back to Vienna, so the few Hungarians allowed to visit the West (likely trusted members of the party).


Fine, but it still doesn't explain why there's no Győr on the sign (which would've been enough anyway).


----------



## John Maynard

^^ Everyone should had known that Vienna was the direction of Győr back then, it was "almost" in the West :lol:.


----------



## MX-BNE

Mexico, 1975.

A road somewhere in central-northern Mexico (San Luis Potosí), crossing the Sierra Madre Oriental mountain range. 

Crossing the Sierra Madre Oriental, Mex-101 to San Luis Potosi, Mexico 1974.12.31 by fossilmike, en Flickr

Federal Road México 57. Today it is the one of the busiest roads in the country by being the main connection between central México and the United States.

Mex-57 to Matehuala, Mexico 1975.01.08 by fossilmike, en Flickr


----------



## Eulanthe

Verso said:


> Fine, but it still doesn't explain why there's no Győr on the sign (which would've been enough anyway).


One logical explanation : domestic traffic was minimal, while the route was heavily used by foreigners? I'm guessing some Gastarbeiter might have gone that way to avoid the carnage of the Zagreb-Belgrade route?

There's one thing to back up that theory - the prices in the petrol station shown are in dollars, which makes me think that the route was a heavy transit route if it was worth having separate petrol stations for foreign vehicles.


----------



## elbong

Eulanthe said:


> One logical explanation : domestic traffic was minimal, while the route was heavily used by foreigners? I'm guessing some Gastarbeiter might have gone that way to avoid the carnage of the Zagreb-Belgrade route?
> 
> There's one thing to back up that theory - the prices in the petrol station shown are in dollars, which makes me think that the route was a heavy transit route if it was worth having separate petrol stations for foreign vehicles.


We built the road for the high domestic traffic around Budapest, on the Bp-Balaton, Bp-Austria sections and for the Balkan-Germany route of the gastarbaiters. This was a necessary investment, the original highway plan from 1971:









And everybody know, that Győr is in the halfway between Budapest and Wien.


----------



## Verso

I remember when Zagreb was still signposted at the M1×M7 interchange.


----------



## elbong

*1965 Hungary*

M7 under construction:








source: fentrol.hu (Hungarian aerial survey database)


----------



## John Maynard

Since when was the vignette (or other tolls) introduced in Hungary?


----------



## elbong

First experiment: 1988-89
Regular: since 1998


----------



## Stuu

I'm amazed that the petrol station was run by BP in 1970s Hungary - How did that happen?


----------



## elbong

Joint venture with a Hungarian company. The situation in the contemporary China is similar (they copied many Hungarian socialist methods), if you wanted to invest in the socialist Hungary, you had to look for a Hungarian partner then. All of the considerable companies were present at this time in Hungary. The ÁFOR was the BP's partner and they opened the BP first petrol station in 1972.


----------



## marmurr1916

The Cork International Motor Car Race, 1937 in Cork, Ireland, along the Carrigrohane Straight Road.










The road in 2010:










And during recent floods:


----------



## elbong

*1980-82 Hungary*

M3 highway in Budapest, between the Hungária ringroad and the Szentmihályi street:
















































source: fortepan


----------



## marmurr1916

General Maximus said:


> Sweden and Ireland must have been the only countries that insisted in driving on the left whilst not being a part of the British Empire. Suriname has left-hand driving now. No idea why...


Ireland was part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland until 1922. 

Japan and Thailand are just two states in Asia that have never been part of the British Empire and which drive on the left.


----------



## Palance

elbong said:


> M7 highway:


Did Hungarians drive on the left side of the road?  (See the traffic sign)


----------



## elbong

:dunno:

That sign is an anomaly!


----------



## italystf

The same wrong sign had been also spotted in present-day Italy (by me) and Slovakia (another post on SSC).


----------



## The Polwoman

elbong said:


> *1980-82 Hungary*
> 
> M3 highway in Budapest, between the Hungária ringroad and the Szentmihályi street:
> 
> (first photo)


It's clearly visible that Budapest was in dire need of a new motorway mg:


----------



## elbong

Number of vehicles in Hungary and the lenght of the highways:

1955: 135 494
1960: 319 171 +235%
1970: 1 007 822 +315% - 85km
1980: 1 852 962 +183% - 213 km +250%
1985: 2 054 941 +110% - 302 km +141%
1990: 2 401 949 +116% - 346 km +114%
1995: 2 749 466 +114% - 398 km +115%
2000: 2 840 187 +103% - 571 km +143%
2005: 3 456 538 +121% - 717 km +125%
2010: 3 608 834 +104% - 1290 km +179%


----------



## Yilku1

Rosario, Argentina. Rosario-Santa Fe Highway and Rosario ring road (here), 1971











https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207578751806338&set=p.10207578751806338&type=3&theater

Today:










https://www.facebook.com/DiarioLaCa...2728375450013/957982637591245/?type=3&theater


----------



## x-type

Eulanthe said:


> Found a brilliant movie here of the Zagreb-Belgrade Autoput.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWzKVxUVZWM
> 
> The toll station at the end has one of the weirdest things I've ever seen - tickets were handed manually to drivers instead of being issued through a machine.


manual ticketing was present in Croatia up to the 2000es. as the folks said already - it is way faster that automatic ticketing, i was almost always passing the toll station gliding in 2nd gear if the lane was empty.

i find that video brilliant for 2 things: you can see the quality of the Yugoslav roads. second thing - real rarity to see former toll station Brodski Stupnik. i remember passing it in 2001, it was still active (and those were the last moments of it). i have already given up searchin the Internet for a photo of it, and now you have found it. frankly - as soon as you mentioned toll station in your post, i knew it was that one, i had that feeling  thanks for that.


----------



## Luki_SL

elbong said:


> *1965 Hungary*


Google earth - 50 years ago


----------



## Eulanthe

x-type said:


> manual ticketing was present in Croatia up to the 2000es. as the folks said already - it is way faster that automatic ticketing, i was almost always passing the toll station gliding in 2nd gear if the lane was empty.


... meanwhile I almost always manage to pull up too far away from the machine and have to get out to get the ticket. I guess there are some advantages after all, but still, it's the first time I've ever seen such a thing. My first experience of toll roads was in France and Spain in 1994 though, so that sort of explains why.



> i find that video brilliant for 2 things: you can see the quality of the Yugoslav roads. second thing - real rarity to see former toll station Brodski Stupnik. i remember passing it in 2001, it was still active (and those were the last moments of it). i have already given up searchin the Internet for a photo of it, and now you have found it. frankly - as soon as you mentioned toll station in your post, i knew it was that one, i had that feeling  thanks for that.


It's my pleasure  I'm guessing this is in the direction of Zagreb, and the road before the toll station is of the old Highway of Brotherhood and Unity? If so - now I understand why it was so notorious. If that was the condition of the main road from Zagreb to Belgrade, I can't imagine how bad some roads must have been. 

https://youtu.be/dWzKVxUVZWM?t=4m35s - what's the story here? How could a hotel sell duty free when it's located near Slavonski Brod, smack bang in the middle of Yugoslavia? 

(https://www.google.com/maps/place/M...6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xbabc96826edcae7f!6m1!1e1 - this appears to be the hotel in 2011...)

edit : wait, maybe it isn't. x-type, any idea? There's an abandoned building on the other side of the A3, and there's also a petrol station - https://www.google.com/maps/@45.179...uORt7ENVrH05Q7bd3A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1 - I have no idea :/


----------



## Gedeon

The older Motel Marsionia (seen in video) is north of motorway. The southern one was built after the motorway was upgraded to four lanes (shortly before war). Both motels were damaged during Croatian War of Independence and are now derelict. There are planes for reconstruction, but still haven't come to fruition.

EDIT: The soutern one was never finished.

I guess it was Duty free only for foreigners. They paid tax as everyone, but got it back at the border.


----------



## volodaaaa

Verso said:


> Most maps had inner borders drawn.


I made a quick look on all my outdated maps and Yugoslavia is always depicted with inner boundaries, even at the scale of European continent.


----------



## aswnl

Both existed.

There were maps with and without inner boundaries. Just like there were maps of other federal states (like West-Germany) with and without inner boudaries.


----------



## x-type

most of the maps had indicated state boundaries (at least all those that were hanged at walls in offices and classrooms). but only maps. no any real borders in rl.

i remember my first longer school trip, the year was 1987 or 1988, we went to Postojna. there were 2 petrol stations one near anoter: one was Ina, anothe was Petrol. that was the only indication of HR-SLO border.


----------



## Gedeon

x-type said:


> most of the maps had indicated state boundaries (at least all those that were hanged at walls in offices and classrooms). but only maps. no any real borders in rl.
> 
> i remember my first longer school trip, the year was 1987 or 1988, we went to Postojna. there were 2 petrol stations one near anoter: one was Ina, anothe was Petrol. that was the only indication of HR-SLO border.


But states had many services under them. Even railway operations were clearly divided by states! For example, in Croatia there was ŽTP Zagreb (željezničko transportno poduzeće, railway transport company) that maintained tracks in Croatia and had it's own rolling stock. Each state/province had it's own ŽTP/ŽTO. And they were quite independent. For example, only ŽTP Zagreb (of which became HŽ) was capable of running trains at 160 km/h in the 80's (and still is now, with the exception of SŽ on a short stretch Maribor-Pragersko).

Of course, all ŽTP-s/ŽTO-s were under umbrella company Jugoslavenske željeznice/Jugoslovenske železnice.


----------



## volodaaaa

Official licence plate codes, country ovals and traffic signs in Czechoslovakia in 1929. What does SB stand for in Yugoslavia? Nice, they had mentioned the new name for SHS Kingdom. Btw. the scan is taken from traffic rules - the general speed limit in inhabited area was 20 kph 

There were no Slovak translations for Belgium and Norway that times  Moreover, United States of North America seems logical but weird.


----------



## stickedy

x-type said:


> i remember my first longer school trip, the year was 1987 or 1988, we went to Postojna. there were 2 petrol stations one near anoter: one was Ina, anothe was Petrol. that was the only indication of HR-SLO border.


The state borders were often easily visible by changing road quality since the states were responsible for road maintenance and planning.

Quite often you had a big break in road quality at the state border since each state had different money available and different ideas of the importance of a road. 

This is still visible e.g. on the now-border between MNE and BiH from Pluzine to Foca (wide and good road in MNE, a real mess in BiH).


----------



## Alex_ZR

volodaaaa said:


> Official licence plate codes, country ovals and traffic signs in Czechoslovakia in 1929. What does SB stand for in Yugoslavia? Nice, they had mentioned the new name for SHS Kingdom.


SB was code for the Kingdom of Serbia until 1918. Old data. :lol:



stickedy said:


> This is still visible e.g. on the now-border between MNE and BiH from *Plusinje* to Foca (wide and good road in MNE, a real mess in BiH).


Plužine? :hmm:


----------



## Verso

SB was Serbia until 1919 according to Wikipedia. In 1929 it was either SHS or Y.

Edit: Alex_ZR was faster.


----------



## stickedy

volodaaaa said:


> Official licence plate codes, country ovals and traffic signs in Czechoslovakia in 1929. What does SB stand for in Yugoslavia?


SB was the old country code for Serbia. The "Kingdom of Serbia" merged with the "State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs" to form the "Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes" which later (in 1929) became the "Kingdom of Yugoslavia". So the "SB" for Yugoslavia is a further use of the Serbian country code.

However, SHS or Y would be the correct one in 1929. But perhaps it's just an information with errors. HL for Liechtenstein is not correct as far as I could get informations for it. RM seems also wrong.

See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...cle_registration_codes#Codes_no_longer_in_use


----------



## CrazySerb

Gedeon said:


> But states had many services under them. Even railway operations were clearly divided by states! For example, in Croatia there was ŽTP Zagreb (željezničko transportno poduzeće, railway transport company) that maintained tracks in Croatia and had it's own rolling stock. Each state/province had it's own ŽTP/ŽTO. And they were quite independent.* For example, only ŽTP Zagreb (of which became HŽ) was capable of running trains at 160 km/h in the 80's (and still is now, with the exception of SŽ on a short stretch Maribor-Pragersko).*
> 
> Of course, all ŽTP-s/ŽTO-s were under umbrella company Jugoslavenske željeznice/Jugoslovenske železnice.


That's probably just a bone we threw your way, after you bitched about money going towards building of Belgrade-Bar railway.


----------



## Gedeon

CrazySerb said:


> That's probably just a bone we threw your way, after you bitched about money going towards building of Belgrade-Bar railway.


I wouldn't say so, cause Končar Zagreb built the Brena locos for 160 km/h, that are still the flagship HŽ locos today.

And ŽTO Novi Sad was reluctant to upgrade to 160 km/h, even when almost the whole stretch Novska-Vinkovci-border on Croatian side (of the most important mainline Zagreb-Belgrade) was already operating at that speed


----------



## italystf

volodaaaa said:


> Btw. the scan is taken from traffic rules - the general speed limit in inhabited area was 20 kph [/IMG]


This seems reasonable in a era when the vast majority of traffic was non-motorized.
I've read a book about the 1907 Beijng-Paris automobile race. The Italian prince Scipione Borghese, who took part to it and won with his Itala car, was fined in Belgium because he drove more than 10kph inside a town, that wasn't allowed back then. :lol:


----------



## stickedy

Alex_ZR said:


> Plužine? :hmm:


Yes, of course.


----------



## Corvinus

Roads in and around Eger, Hungary, 1982
































































Source: http://magyarrendor.osaarchivum.org/content/index.php


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ Porsche 924 and Zuk on same road :lol:


----------



## Alex_ZR

Corvinus said:


> Roads in and around Eger, Hungary, 1982


Photos made by the police? Interesting.


----------



## italystf

*Construction of A3 motorway in Italy in the late 1960s and early 1970s*

Costruction of Italia Viaduct





































Italia Viaduct completed




























Construction of section Mormanno - Campotenese










Construction of Sfalassà viaduct




























Construction of Costa Viola viaduct










Construction of section Laino Borgo - Valle Jassa



















Section Laino Borgo - Valle Jassa completed



















Pictures taken from ANAS website
http://www.stradeanas.it/content/index/arg/a3_sarc_new/page/4


----------



## LM69

*A 4 Poland:*
Exit KRAJKOW under construction (date: 10/30/2000) (known as "Wyjazd 164" or nowadays as exit WROCLAW WSCHOD)









Exit BIELANY & "Centrum Handlowe Bielany" under construction (date: 4/26/2003) (here, you can see the motorway A 4 during renovations)









Exit KATY WROCLAWSKIE (date: 9/8/2002) (here, you can see the old RAB / Motorway A 4 before the renovations)


----------



## LM69

Famous German - Luxembourg Border *"SCHENGEN"* under construction (A8 PERL (D) - A13 CROIX "BETTEMBOURG" (LUX)) (Date: 6/1/2000)








The Highway was finished in 2003.


----------



## pai nosso

*Portugal - A1 (1961) » Lisbon area*



DiogoBaptista said:


> Primeiro troço da Autoestrada para o Norte, Portugal by Biblioteca de Arte / Art Library Fundação Calouste Gulbenkian, no Flickr
> 
> 
> Primeiro troço da Autoestrada para o Norte, Portugal by Biblioteca de Arte / Art Library Fundação Calouste Gulbenkian, no Flickr
> 
> 
> Primeiro troço da Autoestrada para o Norte (EN1), Portugal by Biblioteca de Arte / Art Library Fundação Calouste Gulbenkian, no Flickr
> 
> 
> Viaduto de Sacavém, Lisboa, Portugal by Biblioteca de Arte / Art Library Fundação Calouste Gulbenkian, no Flickr
> 
> 
> Viaduto de Sacavém, Lisboa, Portugal by Biblioteca de Arte / Art Library Fundação Calouste Gulbenkian, no Flickr
> 
> 
> Viaduto de Sacavém, Lisboa, Portugal by Biblioteca de Arte / Art Library Fundação Calouste Gulbenkian, no Flickr


----------



## elbong

The oldest continually used paved road in Hungary was a Roman road at Érd:









The road got a new asphalt overlay some years ago and the only remains is this short section... :bash:


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> That road looks like the same today. Are they the same concrete slabs from the 1930s?


Yes, they're still the same concrete slabs. The road was officially finished in 1938, but most of it was opened already in 1937, and the first part(s) maybe even in 1936. In 1940 it was extended to Naklo and they built Radovljica bypass (~5 km). The road led to Bled to boost tourism.


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> Yes, they're still the same concrete slabs. The road was officially finished in 1938, but most of it was opened already in 1937, and the first part(s) maybe even in 1936. In 1940 it was extended to Naklo and they built Radovljica bypass (~5 km). The road led to Bled to boost tourism.


So this is one of the rare pre-war concrete slabs roads still left in Europe.
That kind of pavement was also used on German _Reichautobahnnen_ and early Italian 1+1 _autostrade_ in the interbellum period.
Of course most of them don't exist anymore. I can only think of the Polish road 18/E36 and of the Russian road E28 in the Kaliningrad oblast, both parts of the Reichautobahn system.


----------



## Kanadzie

elbong said:


> The oldest continually used paved road in Hungary was a Roman road at Érd:
> 
> 
> The road got a new asphalt overlay some years ago and the only remains is this short section... :bash:


I kind of like this solution
It is bad to cover what is ancient, but if it is still being used, it needs to be usable... this way at least some of the history is preserved 
Here's Via Appia in Rome :lol:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@41.8712...03&h=100&yaw=304.15506&pitch=0!7i13312!8i6656


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> So this is one of the rare pre-war concrete slabs roads still left in Europe.
> That kind of pavement was also used on German _Reichautobahnnen_ and early Italian 1+1 _autostrade_ in the interbellum period.
> Of course most of them don't exist anymore. I can only think of the Polish road 18/E36 and of the Russian road E28 in the Kaliningrad oblast, both parts of the Reichautobahn system.


There is also this short section left by Logatec (~2 km), but they don't wanna repave it because of Napoleon's linden trees along it. It's pretty shaky; speed limit is 90 km/h, but it's better to drive half that speed.


----------



## keber

Verso said:


> There is also this short section left by Logatec (~2 km), but they don't wanna repave it because of Napoleon's linden trees along it.


I think this road was contructed after war. Repavement is planned for this year (source). Repavement of the road is officially allowed as it cannot hurt trees. Also black ice did most of the damage 2 years ago so most of the trees were replaced recently.


----------



## faisalzulkarnaen89

MALAYSIA

Kuala Lumpur-Karak Highway 

Picture at 7.1.1978 taken from blog http://kitamanusiakelana.blogspot.my/2012/09/6-gambar-jom-baca-sejarah-pembinaan.html














































Now this highway become 6 lane full controlled access highway with code E8/FT2 extension from Karak at state of Pahang to East Coast of Peninsular Malaysia and called East-Coast Expressway (Lebuhraya Pantai Timur) with 4 phase. Current phase is LPT 1 from Kuala Lumpur to Jabur at state of Terengganu. It will continue until phase 4 to Malaysia-Thailand border.

Here is current picture of the highway.


----------



## darko06

keber said:


> I think this road was contructed after war. Repavement is planned for this year (source). Repavement of the road is officially allowed as it cannot hurt trees. Also black ice did most of the damage 2 years ago so most of the trees were replaced recently.


I would say that this part is constructed before the Second World War as part of paved road from Ljubljana to former Yugoslav-Italian border near Rakek-Postojna/Postumia. In 1930es, in Kingdom of Yugoslavia there was started a moderate road refurbishment or new construction program.
In Slovenian part (Drava Banate) were built roads from Ljubljana to Naklo, and from Kropa near Radovljica to Bled. Missing part from Naklo to Kropa (and Ljubelj/Loibl) was built in early sixties as first Yugoslav Swiss-like half-motorway with narrow hard shoulders, except on bridges and in tunnels. Second road was from Ljubljana to Italian border.
In Croatian part (Sava and Litoral Banate, later the Banate of Croatia) were built concrete paved roads from Zagreb to Bregana (Slovenian border) in Ljubljana direction, from Zagreb to Božjakovina in Belgrade direction, and concrete (?) road from Trogir to Split (today old Kaštelanska road), further were started works from Zagreb to Sušak (Rijeka was part of Kingdom of Italy), particularly from Zagreb to Lučko/Stupnik and from Karlovac to Duga Resa, finally an asphalt-paved road from Sušak to Novi Vinodolski.
It is fair to say that the Italians asphalted all main roads from Rijeka/Fiume and Istria to Friuli in the same time, i.e. Rijeka-Postojna, Rijeka-Rupa-Kozina-Trieste, Rijeka-Pula-Koper-Trieste, Plomin-Pazin-Poreč etc. etc.


----------



## italystf

darko06 said:


> I would say that this part is constructed before the Second World War as part of paved road from Ljubljana to former Yugoslav-Italian border near Rakek-Postojna/Postumia. In 1930es, in Kingdom of Yugoslavia there was started a moderate road refurbishment or new construction program.
> In Slovenian part (Drava Banate) were built roads from Ljubljana to Naklo, and from Kropa near Radovljica to Bled. Missing part from Naklo to Kropa (and Ljubelj/Loibl) was built in early sixties as first Yugoslav Swiss-like half-motorway with narrow hard shoulders, except on bridges and in tunnels. Second road was from Ljubljana to Italian border.
> In Croatian part (Sava and Litoral Banate, later the Banate of Croatia) were built concrete paved roads from Zagreb to Bregana (Slovenian border) in Ljubljana direction, from Zagreb to Božjakovina in Belgrade direction, and concrete (?) road from Trogir to Split (today old Kaštelanska road), further were started works from Zagreb to Sušak (Rijeka was part of Kingdom of Italy), particularly from Zagreb to Lučko/Stupnik and from Karlovac to Duga Resa, finally an asphalt-paved road from Sušak to Novi Vinodolski.
> *It is fair to say that the Italians asphalted all main roads from Rijeka/Fiume and Istria to Friuli in the same time, i.e. Rijeka-Postojna, Rijeka-Rupa-Kozina-Trieste, Rijeka-Pula-Koper-Trieste, Plomin-Pazin-Poreč etc. etc.*


It's difficult to find data about when Italian roads had been paved for the first time. I've read on Wikipedia that SS9 between Milan and Rimini was paved with asphalt in 1929, but that's all.
What is available are the Italian SS-numbers that were once assigned to roads in territories that we lost to Yugoslavia after WWII.
Even areas of Slovenia, Dalmatia and Montenegro briefly occupied (and formally annexed as Italian provinces of Lubiana, Zara, Spalato and Cattaro) in 1941-43, had some SS numbers.


----------



## keber

darko06 said:


> I would say that this part is constructed before the Second World War as part of paved road from Ljubljana to former Yugoslav-Italian border near Rakek-Postojna/Postumia. .


Road Ljubljana-Vrhnika was built in 1947 and continuation to Planina (close to previous YU-I border) was finished in 1954.

I looked to Google and found my own post about that


----------



## Verso

darko06 said:


> Missing part from Naklo to Kropa (and Ljubelj/Loibl) was built in early sixties as first Yugoslav Swiss-like half-motorway with narrow hard shoulders


Expressway Naklo-Ljubelj was opened in 1964, and Podtabor-Črnivec in 1966. But hard shoulders don't look narrow to me, if you look in the distance, and I doubt they added them later (on the photo from 1960s is viaduct Peračica):









http://dar-radovljica.si/g4)%20Viadukt%20Pera%C4%8Dica%20in%20predor%20Ljubno.pdf


----------



## darko06

keber said:


> Road Ljubljana-Vrhnika was built in 1947 and continuation to Planina (close to previous YU-I border) was finished in 1954.
> 
> I looked to Google and found my own post about that


I don't know how the central committee of communist party approved that (Joke.) I mean, to build the connection with Italy instead of first 20 kilometers of Brotherhood and Unity highway from Škofljica to Ivančna Gorica (Another joke.)


----------



## BL2

Autoput (highway) Ljubljana - Zagreb 1964.


----------



## italystf

Notice how the Serbian word (autoput) was also used in SLO and HR instead of the current au/vtocesta.


----------



## piotr71

italystf said:


> So this is one of the rare pre-war concrete slabs roads still left in Europe.
> That kind of pavement was also used on German _Reichautobahnnen_ and early Italian 1+1 _autostrade_ in the interbellum period.
> Of course most of them don't exist anymore. I can only think of the Polish road 18/E36 and of the Russian road E28 in the Kaliningrad oblast, both parts of the Reichautobahn system.


^^
DW142, part of the same corridor as mentioned E28 in Russia. There is also this road in Slovakia, which possibly has been constructed in the period, however I am not 100% sure. I remember a discussion related to that section, but can't remind its conclusion, I am afraid.


----------



## italystf

piotr71 said:


> ^^
> DW142, *part of the same corridor* as mentioned E28 in Russia. There is also this road in Slovakia, which possibly has been constructed in the period, however I am not 100% sure. I remember a discussion related to that section, but can't remind its conclusion, I am afraid.


It was the Reichautobahn Berlin-Koenigsberg, that was supposed to connect Eastern Prussia with the rest of Germany, across the Polish corridor (Gdynia, Poland) and the (then independent) Free City of Danzig. The supposed necessity of having a territorial contiguity of Germany was one of the pretexts used by Hitler for the well-known tragic events that followed September 1st, 1939. Before the war, an extraterritorial motorway and railway corridor across Poland and Danzig was proposed by Nazi Germany.


----------



## TrojaA

italystf said:


> So this is one of the rare pre-war concrete slabs roads still left in Europe.
> That kind of pavement was also used on German _Reichautobahnnen_ and early Italian 1+1 _autostrade_ in the interbellum period.
> Of course most of them don't exist anymore. I can only think of the Polish road 18/E36 and of the Russian road E28 in the Kaliningrad oblast, both parts of the Reichautobahn system.


There is only one short stretch in Germany which still has the original concrete slabs of the 3rd Reich era in place.
The former GDR didn't place emphasis on maintenance and so large parts of the FRG A11 were still original concrete slabs from that period of time.
Until 2007 there where many sections with a horrible road condition, although they replaced large parts from 1996 onwards.

E.g. taken from Wikipedia (Penkun, Dec 2006 before total replacement):









Today there are only 4km near the border which are still a original *Reichs*autobahn. So you might enjoy this short video.


----------



## piotr71

italystf said:


> It was the Reichautobahn Berlin-Koenigsberg, that was supposed to connect Eastern Prussia with the rest of Germany, across the Polish corridor (Gdynia, Poland) and the (then independent) Free City of Danzig. The supposed necessity of having a territorial contiguity of Germany was one of the pretexts used by Hitler for the well-known tragic events that followed September 1st, 1939. Before the war, an extraterritorial motorway and railway corridor across Poland and Danzig was proposed by Nazi Germany.


Yes. We call it "Berlinka" now.


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> Notice how the Serbian word (autoput) was also used in SLO and HR instead of the current au/vtocesta.


The _autoput_ sign is in Croatia, in Slovenia you can see signs with _autocesta_ and _avtocesta_.


----------



## Sentilj

piotr71 said:


> ^^
> DW142, part of the same corridor as mentioned E28 in Russia. There is also this road in Slovakia, which possibly has been constructed in the period, however I am not 100% sure. I remember a discussion related to that section, but can't remind its conclusion, I am afraid.


AFAIK concrete pavement road Ia/65 in Slovakia isn´t too old, it was build for heavy tanks, because the T-72s were made in ZŤS Martin (Závody Ťažkého Strojárstva - Heavy Machinery Factory), and that road was kind of polygon. For me it´s currently the worst and most dangerous road in Slovakia, locals call it Tankodrom. Especially rendezvous with full concrete slabs sticking out couple of inches out of the surface can be fatal. hno:


----------



## Corvinus

A nice YouTube find - apparently a recent upload - of a 1987 drive on the GDR transit motorway A2 from Helmstedt (D) to West Berlin (first 10 minutes), and in the opposite direction (rest of video).






The description says parts of the audio recording (broadcast of car radio) had to be cut because of copyrighted music. We're in Germany after all!


----------



## darko06

italystf said:


> Notice how the Serbian word (autoput) was also used in SLO and HR instead of the current au/vtocesta.


Slovenian (and recent Croatian) Autocesta / Avtocesta is literally from Italian terminus Autostrada (German Autostraße).
Shortly before WWII in Croatian language existed terminus Autopruga, literally translated from German Autobahn. (Croatian Encyclopaedia from 1939 or 1940 includes entry Autopruga where contemporary German Autobahns were displayed. Also, the original terminus for concrete roads Zagreb - Bregana and Zagreb - Božjakovina was Autopruga/e, although these roads were built with only one carriageway and with in-grade interchanges.)


----------



## Zagor666

BL2 said:


> Autoput (highway) Ljubljana - Zagreb 1964.


Stoki, that means that almost nobody could use this road :lol:


----------



## BL2

darko06 said:


> Slovenian (and recent Croatian) *Autocesta / Avtocesta* is literally from Italian terminus Autostrada (German Autostraße).
> Shortly before WWII in Croatian language existed terminus Autopruga, literally translated from German Autobahn. (Croatian Encyclopaedia from 1939 or 1940 includes entry Autopruga where contemporary German Autobahns were displayed. Also, the original terminus for concrete roads Zagreb - Bregana and Zagreb - Božjakovina was Autopruga/e, although these roads were built with only one carriageway and with in-grade interchanges.)


autoput as well because it means the same.


----------



## stickedy

I guess "autoput" is the Serbo-Croatian word and therefore it was used.


----------



## x-type

part of road that darko06 mentioned Zagreb - Božjakovina is still in use in original shape today between motorway exit Kraljevečki Novaki and Dugo Selo. and it is a horror to drive. but i ermember some 20 years ago through Dugo Selo that road wasn't even concrete, but made of granite stones. when i remember that horror, concrete doesn't seem to be too bad actually.
the road was build before WW2 because here is the photo of it from 1945. it was buit obviously for tanks.










this is today's shape.











interesting thing is that there were 2 concrete roads at western suburbia of Zagreb (direction Ljubljana). one was known "Autoput B&J" that is today's A3, and the second one is road Podsused - Bestovje - Samobor - Bregana. today most of that route is still concrete. and it probably has something with tanks again because in Bregana there was overhaul centre for tanks.


----------



## Sentilj

*Accident of Tatra 138 lorry in Hungary (1965)*






Video about accident of lorry till 0:18, and about undercover radar cars of Hungarian Police chasing offender who overtook another car on forbidden spot.


----------



## caco

*Via Anchieta - Brazil*

*Via Anchieta - Brazil*

*Location*

Photos: Estadão

*1. 60's*


*2. 1965*


*3. 1971*


*4. 1967*


*5. 60´s*


----------



## verreme

Don't know if this has been posted here before. It's a 1960s promo film of Tatra automobiles. Tatra and Skoda were one step ahead of all other Eastern-bloc car manufacturers and in the 1960s and 70s their products were different, but comparable in performance to Western ones. These particular machines were rear-engined V8 saloons with a quirky aerodynamic shape that make them look like some old amusement park attraction, and also surprisingly effective in all terrains.

There are some vintage Czechoslovak road scenes in this video. Perhaps some forumer could identify the locations; the dual carriageway at the beginning should be easy.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ It is worth watching for the inept police and pretty girl 

Too bad Tatra couldn't compete in luxury cars today... I always liked the later 613 :/


----------



## volodaaaa

8:56 looks like this road 

Btw. I am really angry with the driver. How could he dare to drive that beautiful car like this? We are actually planning to rent such car for our wedding.


----------



## mapman:cz

verreme said:


> There are some vintage Czechoslovak road scenes in this video. Perhaps some forumer could identify the locations; the dual carriageway at the beginning should be easy.


The road at the begining is Strakonická street in Prague between Zlíchov and Lahovice  Railroad bridge called as "Bridge of Intelligence" is visible there as well...


----------



## elbong

Hungarian road construction (mostly the main road network) in 1931:

















1933:









1938:


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## piotr71

volodaaaa said:


> 8:56 looks like this road
> 
> Btw. I am really angry with the driver. How could he dare to drive that beautiful car like this? We are actually planning to rent such car for our wedding.


There is plenty of them not too far from your place


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## volodaaaa

You can even buy one 

http://veterany.napredaj.eu/189784_tatra-603.html


----------



## Highway89

I found a YouTube channel with old videos from Spain.


Current B-30/AP-7 in Barcelona in 1977:





Reallignment of the N-634 between Unquera and Llanes (eastern coast of Asturias) in 1968.





Note the yellow center lines Spain used in the past (American influence?)


----------



## elbong

The Ogulin-Plaški basin (Croatia) from the present road 42 (this is the original road near Jezero from 1908):








source: fortepan.hu


----------



## elbong

*Hungary:*

1934, road 10:









1935, road 4 near Szolnok:









1937, road 11 near Visegrád:









1939, road 82 near Csesznek:









1943, road 3 near Máriabesnyő:









1943, road 11 near Dunabogdány:









1943, road 8 near Veszprém:









1943, road 83 under the road 8's viaduct:









1943, road 7 near Dinnyés:









1943, road 3 near Gödöllő:








source: fortepan.hu


----------



## Kanadzie

>


I love this guy.


----------



## NordikNerd

Corvinus said:


> A nice YouTube find - apparently a recent upload - of a 1987 drive on the GDR transit motorway A2 from Helmstedt (D) to West Berlin (first 10 minutes), and in the opposite direction (rest of video).


Shaky camera, but nice find. You were not allowed to stop along the GDR transit motorways, but I saw an episode of the german "tatort" detective tv-series where a westgerman driver faked a motorfailure by cutting of the fan belt of his car and calling a towtruck so he could sneak into the GDR illegally.

Was this possible in reality, what happend if your car broke down on the transit motorway ? where you allowed to stay in the GDR as long as your car was fixed or did the authorities tow it out of the GDR immediatelly ?


----------



## Corvinus

^^ In 1971, the two German states signed a milestone agreement on transit traffic between West Germany and West Berlin through the GDR. Its aim was to simplify procedures and border controls for common travelers as far as possible. West Germany paid a yearly "flat rate" amount to the GDR for the infrastructure provided, and in exchange the GDR levied no individual road tolls, didn't carry out a detailed inspection of vehicles at the border (unless there was a clear reason for suspicions) and refrained from exercise of much of its sovereignty rights (e.g. arrests) on the transit roads.

Transit travelers, on the other hand, were strictly banned from leaving the transit roads (e.g. for excursions or visits in the GDR). Only short stops at petrol stations or rest areas were permitted. No contacts with GDR citizens were allowed. Stasi were constantly operating civilian surveillance vehicles on the transit roads, including vehicles with West German registration. 

GDR authorities could estimate the transit time of a traveler with the aid of the visa form that was handed to the traveler when entering and collected when leaving GDR territory. Longer breaks, e.g. at rest areas, would have to be proven by receipts. This was also the case for "higher force" (accident, sickness, crime). The available roadside assistance in the GDR was weak, however. In 1988, an agreement between Verkehrskombinat Potsdam and West German ADAC was reached, with ADAC now providing assistance and also supply vehicles for the GDR roadside assistance.

Not making the transit in time without a proven reason would easily result in fines (collected in West German marks) which started already at very light "offenses" like the prohibited noon siesta.


----------



## italystf

^^ So, between 1961 (when the wall was built), and 1971 (whe the transit agreement came into force), West Berlin was accessible only by plane? Or maybe also trains?

There was another strange border situation on the inner German border. A line of West Berlin metro crossed a part of East Berlin, but without stops on the GDR section. Some East Germans managed to enter the tunnel via a ventilation tube, stop a West German train and escape to the West.

Also, some Austrian trains transited via Sopron, Hungary, during the Cold War, without stopping on Hungarian soil.


----------



## NordikNerd

*Intertank*



Corvinus said:


> No contacts with GDR citizens were allowed. Stasi were constantly operating civilian surveillance vehicles on the transit roads, including vehicles with West German registration.


I presume that the GDR-motorists were allowed to stop at the transit rest areas, but they couldnt buy anything there or fill up their cars because those service stations only accepted western hard currency.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ what was the relative price of gasoline in an Intertank vs a DDR "proletariat" tankstelle vs a typical BRD tankstelle?


----------



## NordikNerd

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ what was the relative price of gasoline in an Intertank vs a DDR "proletariat" tankstelle vs a typical BRD tankstelle?


Intertank and Intershop meant western prices. I'm not sure if westerners could fill up their cars at a "proletäriat"-tankstelle, even if they had a visa and were allowed to drive off the transit-routes. Also GDR-cars drove on poor 88 octane petrol and maybe they only offered 95 octane at the Intertank-service station, but you could adjust the ignition to use the GDR-petrol.

When I was a tourist there in 1987, prices were only slightly lower when you exchanged your western currency through the offical exchange points.

But most tourists changed their westgerman marks and USD on the black market and lived like kings. You only had to go to a restaurant, sit down at a table, the waiter showed up and he noticed that you were a forreigner so he would offer you 3-4 times the money for exchanging his GDR-marks.









Volga taxi at an intertank petrolstation. *East-Berlin 1973*


----------



## Corvinus

NordikNerd said:


> Intertank and Intershop meant western prices. I'm not sure if westerners could fill up their cars at a "proletäriat"-tankstelle, even if they had a visa and were allowed to drive off the transit-routes.


I remember in Czechoslovakia you needed to bring vouchers (purchased beforehand in your home country) to buy gasoline, but that was the case for Hungary, a Socialist "brother" country. At least, the vouchers could be obtained against your own non-convertible currency. I don't know how Westerners were regulated (and how things were going IRL, which was often enough different from the regulations).

In the 1908s, there was once a crisis with GDR tourists heading to and from Bulgaria when Romania announced GDR citizens are required to pay in hard currency for gasoline. 
There were GDR holidaymakers stranded in Hungary, not venturing the transit through Romania without possession of Western currency, or denied entry by the border guards who checked the quantity of gasoline of entering vehicles. Others topped up their cars to the max before entering Romania and took some extra litres in beverage bottles. Cars back then were not as economical as today, a Lada easily consumed 9-10l per 100 km. Socialist cars' fuel tanks were not oversized either.


----------



## Zagor666

Belgrade 1961 :cheers:


----------



## NordikNerd

*1968 Osnabruck gets connected to the Autobahn*

On November 14, 1968 the german transport-minister cut the white ribbon so the traffic could enter the new section of the A1 at Osnabruck. This was another new motorway on the so called Hansalinie - the motorway connecting northern Germany & Scandinavia with western europe. 

The new motorway between Bremen-Ost and Kamen was 215 kilometers long and it had costed a billion Mark :nuts: 

The construction also included 70 rest areas and 288 bridges. 












Interesting that Germany had 4000km of motorways in 1968.










Sweden has 2050km of motorways today in 2016.


----------



## Stavros86

*Schimatari toll station, circa 1977.*

When the road was converted into a motorway, the station looked like this:









You can see where it used to be here. It was demolished in summer 2014.


----------



## Italbeton

In Italy, the provincial road Milan–Giussano ("Nuova Valassina") was built in the 50s and inspired by the american parkways with grade intersections.

In 1958 it looked like that, note the cycle and pedestrian path on the right:










In the 1990s the road was rebuilt as a freeway and since then is part of the state road nr. 36 Milan–Lecco. The same place today:

http://www.google.it/maps/@45.6130094,9.2239359,3a,75y,5h,81.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6620MNw27RfQ_gWcmKdxAA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


----------



## Italbeton

In Bergamo, the beginning of the new motorway to Milan, in 1927:










In 1960, the same motorway being rebuilt from a single carriageway to a double one:


----------



## italystf

^^ Thanks, very interesting.

I had no idea that SS36 was that old, I though it was built around the 1970s.
This may even be the first 2x2 freeway in Italy, as the first official motorway opened in late 1958 (A1 Milan-Parma) and all "autostrade" built before that date were just 1+1 roads, before they were duplicated in the early 1960s.


----------



## Italbeton

The Milan–Lecco was built in the 1950s from Milan to Giussano, and later (1970s?) from Giussano to Lecco.

But until the reconstruction works in the 1990s it wasn't a freeway: it had many at-grade intersections, even with traffic light.

It was the first italian road with double carriageway, but not the first freeway.


----------



## italystf

^^There were some traffic lights on SS36 in Monza until 2013 (when an 1.8km tunnel was built and the old road downgraded to an urban boulevard).
Also Lecco is crossed with two long tunnels, one of them beneath the city centre.


----------



## Italbeton

Opening of the Bologna–Florence motorway, 3rd December 1960:


----------



## SRC_100

^^
Now, there are two variants of A1 b/n those cities: _Variante di Valico_ (newer I suppose) and _*Autostrada *del Sol_ (old one) from above picture I guess?


----------



## Italbeton

"Variante del sol"?? What should it mean? :nuts:

Actually we have the historical route, opened in 1960, and the "variante di valico" opened in 2015. It seems that they are going to be called "panoramic" (_panoramica_, the old one) and "direct route" (_direttissima_, the new one).


----------



## SRC_100

^^
Right, I made mistake with the name of old path 
Btw, the names I took from GM description 

So, both motorways b/n Bologna and Firenze are going to be parallel in use all the time? What`s about their numbering? Both will be marked as A1 all the time?


----------



## Italbeton

I'm not sure, but one of them should be "A1 var" (probably the new one).


----------



## rakcancer

NordikNerd said:


> Interesting that Germany had 4000km of motorways in 1968.


In 1940 they had over 3000km!


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ According to wikipedia the first stretch of A19 opened in 1970.


----------



## stickedy

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think it's A19 between Bagheria and Palermo, looking northwest with the mountains behind Palermo just out of range. There is a matching tank farm 4 km northwest of this viaduct.
> 
> https://www.google.com/maps/@38.08066,13.47746,346m/data=!3m1!1e3


Looks good: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.080...4!1sRBw10pBAR3BByoT4JeKhVA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

You can see the pipes there.

And this seems to be the bridge in the background with the buildings next to it: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.086...4!1sTfdoDgdgBA1MOvTV1zUMDA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


----------



## Metra

The ancient ruin is between roads
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=42.601588&lon=23.113904&z=15&m=b&show=/14580514/Ruins


----------



## Metra

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Diagrams_of_road_signs_of_East_Germany


----------



## Metra

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB-DDHj1suI
Somewhere in this video shows some BG road


----------



## Metra

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd7n1eWBo1o
Streets of Varna in 1980S


----------



## Metra

http://uacg.bg/filebank/att_6315.pdf


----------



## elbong

1974, M7 near Martonvásár:









source: http://fentrol.blog.hu/


----------



## Corvinus

^^ Nice pic ... Socialist road design and maintenance greets you ... and still Hungary was above the (comparably wealthy) GDR in this regard


----------



## JeDarkett

Nice thread.
Where was building the first modern road of the world with asphalt? or the first highway?


----------



## Kanadzie

Corvinus said:


> ^^ Nice pic ... Socialist road design and maintenance greets you ... and still Hungary was above the (comparably wealthy) GDR in this regard


It's interesting how relatively recent the road is, but already terrible

But, they did fix it sort of by putting the asphalt!
I guess they did not properly form the sub-base below the concrete and the frost-cycle sent them into "staircase" like the Polish road Nr. 18:lol:


----------



## Ingsoc75

elbong said:


> Color photos from the UVATERV archive!
> 
> 1968 M1, M1/7:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> source: fortepan.hu


The nearest car looks like a WW2 Kubelwagen.


----------



## elbong

GAZ-69


----------



## italystf

JeDarkett said:


> Nice thread.
> Where was building the first modern road of the world with asphalt? or the first highway?


First road for motor-vehicles only (1+1, undivided, grade-separated): Autostrada dei Laghi between Milan and Varese, Italy (today A8).
First 2+2 motorways:
- A555 Cologne-Bonn (1932, without median)
- A5 Frankfurt-Darmstadt (1935, with median)

I don't know when the first road with asphalt was built, but it was probably in the early 1900s, and this material became of standard usage in the 1920s/1930s.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

italystf said:


> First road for motor-vehicles only (1+1, undivided, grade-separated): Autostrada dei Laghi between Milan and Varese, Italy (today A8).


The Long Island Motor Parkway had those characteristics and opened in 1908.


----------



## Autobahn-mann

^^ Yeah, that's true.
But if consider the _conceptual _idea THAT (Autostrada dei Laghi) was the first motorway. Conceptual by mean of an apposited dedicated toll-road


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Italy was the first country in Europe that developed hig-standard toll roads, exclusively for fast traffic - even if they weren't real motorways in today's sense.

But the New York area also developed its first parkways in the early 1920s. At first these were four-lane divided highways to parks and beaches outside of the city. They gradually evolved into controlled-access highways, it's difficult to pinpoint which one exactly was the first fully controlled-access highway, most sources indicate the early-to-mid 1930s. Greater New York had a huge network of controlled-access 4-lane highways by the late 1930s.


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## volodaaaa

Some photographs, not much historical, but I think it could fit this topic.


A3 motorway U/C, Bulgaria, near Dupnica, 2005









Border crossing Kalotina (BG) - Dimitrovgrad (SRB), 2005









Border crossing Rajka (H) - Bratislava-Čunovo (SK) in operation, 2005









Budapest ringroad (M0) with SCG direction, 2006









Quite relaxed Röszke (H) - Horgoš (SRB) border crossing, 2006









A1 motorway in Serbia near Subotica (1/2 profile in that time)


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## italystf

volodaaaa said:


> Border crossing Kalotina (BG) - Dimitrovgrad (SRB), 2005


Socialist Republic of Yugoslavia??:nuts:


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## stickedy

italystf said:


> Socialist Republic of Yugoslavia??:nuts:


No, "Savezna Republika Jugoslavija" = Federal Republic of Yugoslavia

Until 2003, then it became "Srbija i Crna Gora" (SCG)


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Different speed limits for trucks and cars on thoroughfares is still fairly common today in France. I've seen some 25 km/h truck limits as well.


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## elbong

This is how the M1/7 constructions were started in 1963-65:
































fortepan.hu


----------



## elbong

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ Different speed limits for trucks and cars on thoroughfares is still fairly common today in France. I've seen some 25 km/h truck limits as well.


Of course, but Pkw was Panzerkampfwagen in this case presumably:


----------



## Verso

elbong said:


> Of course, but Pkw was Panzerkampfwagen in this case presumably


That's "PzKpfw" according to Wikipedia.


----------



## 00Zy99

Better:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhz_yFT3dJI

Maus attack!


----------



## elbong

Verso said:


> That's "PzKpfw" according to Wikipedia.


Yes, the Pkw in the sign was Personalkraftwagen then. So the PzKpfws did not have a speed limit!


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## Kanadzie

^^
maybe 110
http://www.grupy.v10.pl/Kiedy,wprowadzono,w,Polsce,ograniczenia,predkosci,1,1534484,2007_01.html


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## Corvinus

Hungary and the GDR had a 100km/h motorway speed limit back then (until 1990).
In Hungary, it was raised to 120km/h very soon after the fall of the Iron Curtain.
For the motorways of the former GDR part of reunified Germany, the general speed limit could only be abolished in 1993.

What is odd is that the mighty ol' USA had a lower max speed limit (55 mph on most roads from 1973 to 1995) than these two East Bloc countries.


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## 00Zy99

The US did that to try and save gas after the OPEC embargo. The embargo never hit the Warsaw Pact.


----------



## verreme

Spain-France border crossing at La Jonquera in the early 90s:










Note the sign advertising _Aire du Village Catalan_ rest area. It's no longer there, and nor are the customs booths.

source


----------



## Luki_SL

elbong said:


> This is how the M1/7 constructions were started in 1963-65:


The motorway in the middle of the village ? :nuts:


----------



## elbong

Luki_SL said:


> The motorway in the middle of the village ? :nuts:


Today


----------



## italystf

How old is this picture? Maybe early 1990s?


----------



## verreme

^^ The Alfa 146 (red car) came out in 1995.


----------



## piotr71

verreme said:


> Spain-France border crossing at La Jonquera in the early 90s:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note the sign advertising _Aire du Village Catalan_ rest area. It's no longer there, and nor are the customs booths.
> 
> source


I crossed this border in 1995, just couple of months after implementation of the Schengen Area. I have looked at this place in street view now and weren't able to recognise anything. And yes, even if I crossed to Spain there over 2 decadedes ago, I still can remember a shop in La Jonquera, some short distance after border crossing, with huge wooden barrels full of wine laying outside it, sadly, it's not there any more. Anyway, this picture makes me feel that specific climate of the nighties, possible to find only in this part of Europe, hot Europe, again; Ebro lorriess, MB100 vans and open roof Peugeots 205 crossing slowly with their a little happier and far more relaxed drivers on-board, than those, to which I was used to living behind the iron curtain. It was completely different world to me, back then.


----------



## italystf

italystf said:


> How old is this picture? Maybe early 1990s?


This place today.
Google Earth imagery shows A7 being still an 1+1 road in 2007, while it appears as fully upgraded in 2012. There are no photos between 2007 and 2012.
However signage and yellow lines looks like still from Yugoslavia times.


----------



## Eulanthe

La Jonquera was a strange place after Schengen. I crossed there in 1999 in the middle of the night, and the place was completely abandoned except one currency exchange office. 

What made it strange was that after I got out to change money, I realised that (I think Spanish) police were there in the darkness, and several of them were armed with machine guns. I asked the guy inside and he said not to worry, because it was the police - but to this day, I wonder why they were lurking there in the darkness. 

What was particularly unsettling was that La Jonquera was still very much intact at that point and you had to pass by the former control booths at 10km/h - so I had passed these armed-to-the-teeth men without noticing them, even at 10km/h. 

Schengen took quite a while to come into real effect between Spain and France though, especially at Irun/Hendaye. I spent a couple of months in late 1996 working in San Sebastian, and with my non-local plates, I was stopped frequently, asked for my passport and questioned as to what I was doing. I spent a few hours looking at the crossings to see how they were working in practice, and on the A63/A8 crossing at Biriatou, they would visually check every car crossing. 

Even to this day, there's an extraterritorial part of Spain in France here -https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3405504,-1.7509755,3a,75y,273.4h,82.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNF4M5FLfCYvT7XUxeGgA_g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 - I can't find the documents now, but it is legally part of Spain so that the Spanish police can operate freely there.


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## ChrisZwolle

Even in present times there are sometimes heavily armed border guards at La Jonquera. They were there when I crossed in 2015, but not in 2016 (despite all the terrorism activity shortly before).


----------



## italystf

It's quite weird that Italy, one of the six founder members of EEC in 1957, joined Schengen Area 2 years later than Spain and Portugal, that joined EEC in 1986.


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## italystf

Works for A1 near Milan, 1957


----------



## verreme

ChrisZwolle said:


> AP-4 opened to traffic on 1 March 1973.
> 
> The old A-4 (now N-IV) between Sevilla and Dos Hermanas opened on 1 July 1968. It was the first high-standard road of Andalusia. Current A-4 was built on a new alignment in 1998, after which the old road was downgraded. I'm not sure if the old route was entirely a controlled-access highway.


There was at least one at-grade intersection with traffic lights.


----------



## Corvinus

"Petrol station - 500m" sign at a German autobahn, filmed in Summer 1937. Unfortunately, no location given.










... and an exit sign, with distance to Düsseldorf of 17 km:










From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qIq2oN0j70


----------



## italystf

Trieste 1948, during Anglo-American occupation


----------



## italystf

Junction of Latisana on A4 Venice-Trieste, circa 1970 (up is towards Venice).









http://www.cantirs.it/it/msm?D02010020

Aparently, section Latisana-Palmanova opened before than Mestre-Latisana, so it explains the temporary toll booth on the mainline motorway rather than on the exit.
Finding exact opening dates of different sections is very hard. Wikipedia says that Mestre-Sistiana opened on 22.02.1970, although I'm sure Palmanova-Monfalcone opened in 1966 (I've read 30 June, together with A23 Palmanova-Udine Sud). Judging by some old maps I've seen, Monfalcone-Sistiana was opened later (maybe 1972, 73 or 74), and probably the branch to Gorizia (now A34) is from that time too.
It's amazing how scarce is the documentation available about highway openings, compared to railways infrastructure (even from the 19th century).


----------



## elbong

1962 u/c *M1/7*:









1963 u/c *M1/7*:









1971 u/c *M7*:

















1972 u/c *M7*:








source: fortepan.hu


----------



## elbong

Tale of two bridge: Budapest, *Erzsébet híd* (Elizabeth bridge)

Construction of the original bridge 1900:

















1901:









1902:

















1903:

















1904:









the original bridge directly before the war:









after the war:









Contruction of the new bridge 1962:









1963:









































1964:
























































































































photos: fortepan.hu


----------



## italystf

Mestre bypass (now A57, until 2009 part of A4) shortly before its opening, August 1972


----------



## Luki_SL

^^This same place nowadays : https://www.google.pl/maps/place/Me...0ffd3403e40cf42!8m2!3d45.4934881!4d12.2463181


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## italystf

Construction of the urban section of A23 in Udine, late 1980s. The frontage roads for local traffic were opened before.



























































































http://www.studiosuraci.it/studio/p...-comprese-nel-raccordo-autostradale-di-udine/


----------



## MattiG

*Helsinki*

A few old pictures from Helsinki. As reference, the same place in the Google StreetView imagery in 2009 or 2011.










The most central intersection in Helsinki Heikinkatu/Simonkatu/Kaivokatu in 1920 Railway station at the background.



















Keskuskatu ("Central Street") in 1960. A traffic police conducts the traffic at the corner of the North Esplanade.










The street was converted to a pedestrian are in early 2000's.









Helsinki City Museum

Hämeentie is the main street to the northeast suburbs. It is an ancient route to the inland lake areas known since the Middle Ages. This image dates back to 1969. Earlier, it was the starting point of the roads 4, 5, 6 and 7, but those are nowadays routes in a different way.


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## piotr71

"Jadranka" near Klenovnica (at least, picture on the right hand side)









Making convertibles in Sweden:


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## italystf

Construction of Italian A23 across Cavazzo lake, 1979









http://www.ipac.regione.fvg.it/aspx/Home.aspx?idAmb=107&idMenu=-1&liv=0


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## MattiG

*Helsinki (2)*

Another set of three pairs photos from Helsinki area:









Helsinki City Museum

The eastern approach to Helsinki in 1970, then roads 6 and 7, nowadays 170. The Google Earth imagery from 2015 shows commercial and sport areas, as well as the metro depot.










----------









Helsinki City Museum

Ruoholahti area and the West Harbor at the edge of the inner city in 1986 and 2009. One of the most congested traffic points in Helsinki. The industrial area is mostly disappeared and the most of the harbor is being built to a new area of homes to 18000 people. Some people call it a modern city area, some other people call it a coming slum. The construction works are planned to be complete in 2027.










----------









Helsinki City Museum

A fishing competition at the embankment on the road 51 close the city limit of Helsinki in the 1950's. The bridge in the picture has been replaced at least twice since taking the photo, and now there are four parallel brigdes. Nowadays, the road 51 is a motorway, and the busiest radial road of Helsinki. The Google Earth imagery shows the east areas of the city of Espoo: The Keilaniemi commercial area, the the suburb of Tapiola, which once was called a garden city. There is an ongoing project to restore the reputation of Tapiola.


----------



## Bjørne

The E18 motorway under construction in Sandvika, Norway in 1967. This 5.9 kilometers long stretch (Holmen-Blommenholm) opened in 1970, which meant Norway had about 34 kilometers of motorway in 1970.

During the 1970's there was quite a lot of motorway construction, but all of the projects included very short stretches. As a result of this, Norway had a total of about 79 kilometers of motorway in 1979. This was the last year for a motorway opening in Norway for 15 years. In the 1980's, only 2/3 lane single carriageway roads were built. These are now referred to as "the death roads".

Finally, in 1994, a new stretch opened, restarting the motorway development. Today there are 466 kilometers of motorway and and additional 455 kilometers of expressway in Norway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Sweden also had a dip in motorway construction in the 1980s.

1960-1969: 485 km
1970-1979: 518 km
1980-1989: *308 km*
1990-1999: 448 km
2000-2010: 455 km


----------



## MattiG

ChrisZwolle said:


> Sweden also had a dip in motorway construction in the 1980s.
> 
> 1960-1969: 485 km
> 1970-1979: 518 km
> 1980-1989: *308 km*
> 1990-1999: 448 km
> 2000-2010: 455 km


The reason perhaps was similar to what happened in Finland: During the energy crisis of the 1970's, the common thinking was that the decline on traffic volume was to last forever, and motorways would turn unecessary. Most projects were cancelled. It took more than a decade to resume the activity. You might reach even more dramatic figures, if you compare years 1975-1985 to other periods of ten years.


----------



## ElviS77

Bjørne said:


> This was the last year for a motorway opening in Norway for 15 years.


This is not entirely correct since part of the E6 between Kløfta and Jessheim was widened to motorway standard in the early 80s, and I believe the motorway north of Bergen (then rv 14, now E16/E39) was built in the 80s. Details, I know, but still...


----------



## Stavros86

*Greek motorway A7. Artemisio tunnel, during the construction of the first tube, in 1985-1987.*



















*Today:*


----------



## Autobahn-mann

italystf said:


> Mestre bypass (now A57, until 2009 part of A4) shortly before its opening, August 1972


Maybe you've to said that I've posted this photo on Italian forum...


----------



## MattiG

*Flying the Ancient Road 3, Helsinki*

Once upon a time there was a rural windy road leading to Helsinki from northwest. In 1930's, it was made a highway 3 Helsinki-Hämeenlinna-Tampere-Vaasa. 

After WW II, Finland industrialized quickly, and the Helsinki Metropolitan area begun its fast growth. The population in the current Metropolitan area was about 240,000 in 1930, while currently it is 1.1 million. The growth implied the expansion of the city area and rebuilding the road network.

The old road 3 did not survive this development. In its south end, the original road has been cut into pieces, and disappeared as a contiguous road. However, most of those pieces are left for some purpose.









Helsinki City Museum

_A kilometer pole at the old road in Pitäjänmäki. The distance Helsinki-Hämeenlinna was 123 kilometers while it nowadays is 100._

I have made a video flying nine kilometers along the old road, starting from Meilahti where the current and old roads branch, to Malminkartano where the administrative city limit of Helsinki nowadays lies. It is an experimental video based on the imagery of Google Earth.


----------



## volodaaaa

Kpc21 said:


> In Poland, after the WW2, the names of some formerly German towns were sometimes changed to newly invented ones. But there is very few of them.
> 
> In most cases the old Polish names were simply restored (they often had two names: a German one and a Polish one, sometimes similar in their meaning or how they sound, sometimes different) or the German names were polonized.
> 
> We have a touristic mountain town called Karpacz (the German name is Krummhübel - Leaning Mountain in old German; the Polish name was invented by one of the dwellers who was from the Carpathians and named it by that mountain range - Karpacz is in the Sudetes). One of its districts - formerly Brückenberg (Bridge Mountain in modern German) was named Bierutowice by the Polish president from that time. As he was a communist and what he was mainly doing was following Stalin's orders, this name should have already been changed already a long time ago. And there exists a new name, used by many - Karpacz Górny, the Upper Karpacz. But it's still unofficial. The local authorities are so inefficient with this that the name change takes so much time.
> 
> On the other hand, the city of Stargard, formerly Stargard Szczeciński, managed to change its name a year ago without any problems (although the change was initiated in 1999 and it was introduced with the beginning of 2015 - so it took much time anyway). They didn't want to be named by a near bigger city (Szczecin, Stettin in German), they preferred to be just Stargard and not Stargard Szczeciński.
> 
> Another interesting case is the city of Katowice, the name of which was Stalinogród between 1953 and 1956. Introduced after the death of Stalin, but quickly restored back to Katowice.
> 
> Or the city of Kaliningrad in Russia, which used to be German (Teutonic or Prussian) and Polish in different periods in the past. In German it was called Königsberg, in Polish Królewiec, both names meaning basically the same (King's Town). Russians named it by a soviet politician Mikhail Kalinin - and it is so until now.
> 
> But the Germans occupying Poland during the WW2 (I suppose it was the same in other countries) were most crazy with that. In big cities, they changed all the street names to their owns, meaning totally different things than the Polish ones. And also changed some city names (although often they just adjusted them to the German pronunciation) - Łódź became Litzmanstadt, by Karl Litzmann, a nazi politician.


Apparently, Germans thought about Poland as German territory. Nothing such happened here. The craziest renaming occurred during the Soviet period. A lot of streets were renamed mostly after Communist leaders from Eastern European Countries. Cities and municipalities were renamed too, especially those with name referring to some famous enterprisers, minorities or sacral meaning (e.g we had the city called Saint Martin that was renamed to Martin, or mostly, the Saint adjective was replaced by the name of the region - The city of Saint George was renamed to George by Bratislava). Loads of them were replaced back in 1990, but significant names has been retained (like Martin  )

Sometimes it went too far and led only to confusion - there was a Peace Plaza (literal translation) in Bratislava (I know that communism was always referring to peace and democracy ha - ha, but I see nothing wrong with that name) renamed in 1990 after 19th century Slovak revivalist (everyone called the plaza by the old name though). But there was also American Plaza during communist times - even adjacent to Soviet Plaza (red pin in the centre of the map).


----------



## italystf

During Italian fascism all toponyms that had German (South Tyrol), French (Aosta Valley and parts of Piedmont) or Slavic (Venezia Giulia) origin were forcibly italianized, also by imposing names that were invented by some creative fascist personality and never had any historical background.


----------



## OulaL

italystf said:


> During Italian fascism all toponyms that had German (South Tyrol), French (Aosta Valley and parts of Piedmont) or Slavic (Venezia Giulia) origin were forcibly italianized, also by imposing names that were invented by some creative fascist personality and never had any historical background.


The same happened on the Finnish areas annexed by the Soviet Union, apart from those that later came to be parts of the Republic of Karelia.

Even those are often wrongfully latinized, for example Lahdenpohja became Лахденпохья which is nowadays latinized as Lakhdenpokhya.


----------



## bratislav

volodaaaa said:


> The city of Saint George was renamed to George by Bratislava.
> 
> there was a Peace Plaza (literal translation) in Bratislava


Mal si na mysli Svätý Jur a Námestie Mieru, dnes Hodžovo námestie?
(Did you ment Svaty Jur, ex Jur pri Bratislave and Namestie Mieru, today Hodžovo namestie)?
Please do not translate names of towns, rivers, streets,..


----------



## MattiG

OulaL said:


> The same happened on the Finnish areas annexed by the Soviet Union, apart from those that later came to be parts of the Republic of Karelia.
> 
> Even those are often wrongfully latinized, for example Lahdenpohja became Лахденпохья which is nowadays latinized as Lakhdenpokhya.


In this context, the boundary between the West Europe and Byzantine lies on the Russian/Finnish border.

Many of the streets in the city of Helsinki were originally named according to the members of the Russian royal family. After Finland gained its independence, those names remained as such. There is no heritage to change all the names if a new ruler comes.

Russia ruled Finland in 1809-1917. In those times, quite few were changes. Even the sea fortress of Helsinki was still Sveaborg, "Sweden Castle".

A notable exception is the town of Vaasa, which was Nikolainkaupunki ("Nikolai's Town) in 1855-1917. But that change did not originated from Russia but Finland: Vaasa burned down in 1852 and Czar Nikolai I donated a big sum of money for rebuilding the town to a new better place. The local governor was the one to propose changing the name to thank the czar. Nikolai I himself saw the proposal a dirty adulation, and the change took place only after his death.


----------



## volodaaaa

bratislav said:


> Mal si na mysli Svätý Jur a Námestie Mieru, dnes Hodžovo námestie?
> (Did you ment Svaty Jur, ex Jur pri Bratislave and Namestie Mieru, today Hodžovo namestie)?
> Please do not translate names of towns, rivers, streets,..


The information value of my post would have been close to zero if I had not used such though incorrect but literal translations.


----------



## italystf

Expressway near Trieste in the 1950s.
In the late 1940s Anglo-Americans completed a 1+1 expressway between Sistiana and Trieste, to ensure a better connection between Trieste and Italy.








This expressway was numbered SS202 when Trieste became part of Italy again.
In the 1980s part of it was upgraded into RA13 motorway, to fulfill the Osimo Treaty between Italy and Yugoslavia (1975), that included, among other things, the construction of a motorway between Monfalcone and Ljubljana via the Fernetti crossing and a motorway between Trieste and Koper via Rabuiese crossing (they were completed in 1997 and 2008 respectively).
Part of the old Sistiana-Trieste expressway still survives as SP35 in its original shape (2 very wide lanes with shoulders, as it was planned to be used as airstrip in case of war).
https://www.google.it/maps/@45.6911...4!1svGULBjpSru93J_2MEvcRvw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
SS202 number is now used for the southern bypass of Trieste, a mostly elevated urban expressway opened in 1988.


----------



## verreme

In Jacques Tati's _Trafic_ (1971) there's quite a lot of period road footage. The action takes place in France, Belgium and The Netherlands. Here are some screenshots. I couldn't find the exact locations though, but I guess the first ones are somewhere near Paris and the last one is a Dutch motorway. Note that France did also use yellow road markings (Spain did it too).


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ the presence of the Siata and the ridiculous crash scene are best :lol:


----------



## piotr71

> An interesting photo of #Belgrade from the 1930s which shows one of the first gas stations in the city. The owner of the station is remembered only by his nickname Šarac. Anyway, according to the Belgrade Automobile Museum, the first car in the streets of Belgrade appeared in 1903.


----------



## Kvarner-1

Over the centuries neighborhoods in Rijeka (Fiume) carried the names in Italian, although the population of the Rijeka (Fiume) before fascism in the 1920s and communism after WW2 had approximately equal share of Croatians and Italians.
Totalitarian regimes for the first time in the history of this city changed the number first of Croatian and two decades later of Italian component of the population.
After WW2 Croatian version of toponyms entered in use:
Corso - Korzo
Scoglietto - Skoljic
Braida - Brajda
Belvedere - Belveder
Cosala - Kozala
Scurigne - Skurinje
Cantrida - Kantrida
...

Some names have been translated:
Gelsi - Podmurvice

Some were changed without historical basis:
Montegrappa - Banderovo
San Nicolo '- Krnjevo

And ... in all these changes Fiumara, Bivio and Costabella are still Fiumara, Bivio and Costabella


----------



## aswnl

verreme said:


> the last one is a Dutch motorway


No, this is not in NL. NL never had dashed or yellow lines on motorways.


----------



## elbong

Some Hungarian petrol stations from the 30'

Budapest, Damjanich street:









Budapest, Vörösmarty square:









Kecskemét, Main square:









Somewhere in Hungary:








source: fortepan.hu


----------



## Kpc21

I did not know if it should go here, or to the fuel prices thread, but I put it here since it's about history, and gas stations are still road infrastructure.

A Polish news report from November 1989 - the first material shows a gas station in Orla street in Warsaw:






At 11:00 that day, 99 cars were waiting in a queue for fuel. The waiting time was about 3 hours.

The reasons for such queues were planned price increases announced 3 days before and the general shortage of fuels on the Polish market. Daily 3500 tons of fuels were delivered, although 12,000 tons were needed. Those 3500 tons were 1000 tons less than a year before (even though the number of cars was increasing).

The explanation for those shortages were lack of money in foreign currencies for the import and a recent breakdown in the refinery in Płock.

I have no idea how it worked with those shortages and how it caused queues. I guess, some stations were simply running out of fuel, causing queues at those which had fuel. I also assume that a means of fuel rationing had to be introduced (so that a car owner could buy only a limited amount of it), although I don't really see how it could cause the queues.

Probably someone living in those times can explain it better.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ I always mention those situations when I talk to someone who reminisces of PRL-era, "you had to send your wife to wait in line all day to get a kielbasa while you sat in line to tank your Maluch, _if _you were lucky!"

I get annoyed if there is even no free pump for me immediately when I arrive, I can't even imagine waiting hours...


----------



## hjf

Kpc21 said:


> I did not know if it should go here, or to the fuel prices thread, but I put it here since it's about history, and gas stations are still road infrastructure.
> 
> [... stuff deleted...]
> 
> The explanation for those shortages were lack of money in foreign currencies for the import and a recent breakdown in the refinery in Płock.
> 
> I have no idea how it worked with those shortages and how it caused queues. I guess, some stations were simply running out of fuel, causing queues at those which had fuel. I also assume that a means of fuel rationing had to be introduced (so that a car owner could buy only a limited amount of it), although I don't really see how it could cause the queues.
> 
> Probably someone living in those times can explain it better.


This is a fairly complex issue. I will try and do my best to shed some light on it.

Fuel shortage was pretty common in the communist era in Eastern Europe. This was caused for the most part by lower than agreed upon levels of crude oil shipment by the USSR, which in turn was either due to shortcomings in infrastructure or triggered by the need of the USSR to raise hard currency for themselves. 

This was either regulated by limiting the amount of fuel per one fill or a coupon system, so that you had only a certain amount of fuel per vehicle per time period.

The first method quickly caused long queues since drivers would fill the allowed quota only to drive to the next filling station and stand in line for another. A waiting time for 3 hrs for ~100 cars in line would speak for normal procedures at the station if an average time for a fill of ~5 min is considered.

Now, you ask why a coupon system was not more widespread? Easy. This would lead (and reality showed it did) to a black market, with hyped prices for fuel on coupons. In most cases the "owner" of a coupon would ask for hard currency, thereby devaluating the own local currency and creating a parallel economy. This was of course, something the communist leaders would not be able to accept, since it would mean open confession that the socialist way of an economy had failed.

Regulating the distribution of any trade good was not an option for ideological reasons, obviously.

Most likely, this will not have explained all the questions that may arise. I hope to have shed some light nonetheless.

Best

Jochen Frenck


----------



## Kpc21

Most people weren't using cars in those times. Even if someone had a car (and not many people did), it wasn't rather used for commuting to work. Only for exceptional situations and for holidays. Most people were using public transport, which was developed much better than it is now. Each village had a bus (if not train) connection - although those buses and trains were often overcrowded.

For sure, there were periods when the access to fuel was rationed, you were getting tickets at work allowing to buy only a specified amount of fuel. Although I have no idea, how big those rations were, how much you could drive, for example, in a day (if you drove every day) for them.

And, from what I know, it was somehow easier if you had a diesel car - since diesel fuel was also used by buses, trucks and tractors. But for details, I think, we must know for someone who lived in Poland (or another eastern country) in those times and remembers that.

----

Thanks, Jochen - I wrote this post before I read yours.


----------



## aswnl

Some historic pictures from the Netherlands, which I posted on Wegenforum.nl:

E8 (A28/N221) near Amersfoort:






































N96 (A15) near Hendrik-Ido-Ambacht:


----------



## aswnl

Also some pictures near Oudenrijn interchange somewhere between 1969-1972

E9 (A2/E35) heading South:




























E9 (A2/E25) heading north:










E8/E36 (A12/E25/E30) heading east:



















E8/E36 (A12/E30/E35) heading west:


----------



## aswnl

Ah, SSC doesn't resize them. Pity.


----------



## piotr71

^^
I was aware about Nysa's popularity in certain parts of the world, but did not realise it was *that* popular.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ must have been a big trade between PRL and the Bulgars... but what were the Polish getting? Bulgarian umbrellas? :lol::lol:


----------



## piotr71

Watermeloons, twice a year.


----------



## Kpc21

Poland had a very well developed automotive industry in those times. We practically didn't have to import any types of cars from other Eastern Block countries (maybe except for Ikarus buses, but this was rather in the late period, and we were still producing Jelcz and Autosan buses in the same time, similarly as before) and we exported quite much to other countries. Supposedly, Fiat 126p was very popular in Hungary too. But except from that - Żuk vans, Star trucks, Jelcz trucks and buses, Ursus tractors... Żuks are still quite popular, maybe a bit less now, but like 4 years ago, if you went to a local farmers' market, many of sellers were still selling from Żuk cars. This is all about utility vehicles. Talking about passenger cars - first Warszawa, then Syrena, then Fiat 125p and 126p (ok, it was Italian cars, but I don't think any country produced those models so massively), at the end - Polonez.

Which other country in the Eastern Block, not counting the USSR, did produce so many types of cars? And if so, what kinds and makes of cars were it? I can think of Skoda, but it was rather passenger cars only, unless I am wrong. Same with Dacia in Romania.


----------



## CrazySerb

Yugoslavia, of course.


----------



## Kpc21

Wow  I didn't know you produced cars on Opel license. And Volkswagen.

It looks like you had "real" cars (not like Fiat 126p) available to everyone quite early. Unless they were not so available as 126p in Poland, so that whole families were driving it for holidays even to Bulgaria...

But these are still passenger cars. What about vans, trucks, buses, tractors? And, maybe also, other farming equipment like combines (we produced them too)? Czechs had Zetor tractors, and what about other countries?


----------



## VITORIA MAN

http://www.plymouthcounty-ma.gov/images/about-history-01.jpg








https://fedora.digitalcommonwealth....ealth:3j333378z/datastreams/access800/content


----------



## piotr71

*M6, UK*

19884234_1596345497050398_8552814485607250787_n by 71piotr, on Flickr

Practical Classic


----------



## Kanadzie

Is that a Humber Super Snipe?


----------



## bratislav

Kpc21 said:


> Wow  I didn't know you produced cars on Opel license. And Volkswagen.
> 
> It looks like you had "real" cars (not like Fiat 126p) available to everyone quite early. Unless they were not so available as 126p in Poland, so that whole families were driving it for holidays even to Bulgaria...
> 
> But these are still passenger cars. What about vans, trucks, buses, tractors? And, maybe also, other farming equipment like combines (we produced them too)? Czechs had Zetor tractors, and what about other countries?


 Combines were produced in Zmaj Zemun and I thnik Bratstvo Travnik 
Tractors: in IMT (https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrija_Mašina_i_Traktora) Belgrade
IMR Belgrade
Torpedo Rijeka
Tomo Vinković Bjelovar
MIO Osijek
Bratstvo Travnik,...
Buses:
TAM Maribor
Autokaroserija (later Neobus) Novi Sad (VOLVO licence)
Ikarus (later Ikarbus) Belgrade
TAZ Zagreb
FAP Priboj
FAS "11.oktomvri" (later Sanos https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanos) Skopje,...
Trucks:
FAP Priboj (https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabrika_Automobila_Priboj)
TAM Maribor,...
Farming equipment:
Poljostroj Odžaci,
MIO Osijek,...
Vans:
IMV Novo Mesto
Zastava Kragujevac
Trailers:
Utva Pančevo
Dubrava Sr. Mitrovica
Goša Smed. Palanka,...
Airplanes and gliders:
Soko Mostar
Utva Pančevo
Elan Begunje,...

In Titos Yugoslavia we produced everything.


----------



## Metra

Something non-Bulgarian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NE0eWbz53S4


----------



## Metra

Another non-bulgarian thing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywGnH0WRl8I
EDIT: One part shows road and stuff


----------



## Metra

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WaglhAA0nY


----------



## aubergine72

^^

The previous posts had nothing to do with Bulgaria so you're comments make no sense.


----------



## gibranalnn

*The Jakarta-Bogor-Ciawi (Jagorawi) Expressway between 1978-1979*

Many ppl in an Indonesian FB group thought that this was built to Korean standards; this is wrong, as it was designed by an American civil engineering firm Sverdrup & Parcel and supervised by another American civil engineering firm Ammann & Whitney. Both firms had merged with different firms of its kind. Only the contractor of the project is Korean: Hyundai Construction Co (now Hyundai E&C)

Built with the cost of $33M (of late 1970s money), the expressway was meant to be free (it was originally called the Jagorawi Freeway/Jalan Bebas Jagorawi) but VERY SHORTLY before opening the then Minister for Public Works suggested the freeway to be tolled, which results in the incorporation of PT Jasa Marga (Indonesia Highway Corporation) --now PT Jasa Marga (Persero) Tbk (publicly traded: IDX:JSMR; 70% stock still owned by state)-- in 1st March 1978

Some claimed that the toll scheme were used to be similar to those of the Meishin/Tomei expressways of Japan until 1972 (where toll will be lifted after construction funds are paid off) but the US/UK intel-backed President Suharto claimed that toll will be put in place on places of high economy on the expressway's inauguration speech

Originally designed for 120km/h speeds, Jasa Marga decreased the speed limits here to 100km/h when they are widening the roads to 3x2, iirc



gibranalnn said:


> jasamarga archives/Kompas (need subscription to access)


----------



## Metra

aubergine72 said:


> ^^
> 
> The previous posts had nothing to do with Bulgaria so you're comments make no sense.


That's what I said, non-bulgarian means something that is not made in Bulgaria.


----------



## marmurr1916

Traffic joining the M7 (Naas bypass), the Republic of Ireland's first mortorway, in 1983 on the day it was first opened to traffic:










http://www.engineersjournal.ie/2014/07/31/article-m7-naas-bypass-30th-anniversary-lecture/


----------



## marmurr1916

Traffic stuck in heavy snow on the Naas dual-carriagway (part of the N7 route) near Dublin in 1982.










https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/...w-makes-dull-road-a-thing-of-beauty-1.2042959


----------



## marmurr1916

Dublin city centre streets in the early-mid 1960s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNROXsMqcI0&feature=youtu.be


----------



## Metra

https://youtu.be/6M_pGf8Jkao
Belgian or Dutch road video shows at mid end of this video


----------



## The Polwoman

gibranalnn said:


> *The Jakarta-Bogor-Ciawi (Jagorawi) Expressway between 1978-1979*
> 
> Many ppl in an Indonesian FB group thought that this was built to Korean standards; this is wrong, as it was designed by an American civil engineering firm Sverdrup & Parcel and supervised by another American civil engineering firm Ammann & Whitney. Both firms had merged with different firms of its kind. Only the contractor of the project is Korean: Hyundai Construction Co (now Hyundai E&C)
> 
> Built with the cost of $33M (of late 1970s money), the expressway was meant to be free (it was originally called the Jagorawi Freeway/Jalan Bebas Jagorawi) but VERY SHORTLY before opening the then Minister for Public Works suggested the freeway to be tolled, which results in the incorporation of PT Jasa Marga (Indonesia Highway Corporation) --now PT Jasa Marga (Persero) Tbk (publicly traded: IDX:JSMR; 70% stock still owned by state)-- in 1st March 1978
> 
> Some claimed that the toll scheme were used to be similar to those of the Meishin/Tomei expressways of Japan until 1972 (where toll will be lifted after construction funds are paid off) but the US/UK intel-backed President Suharto claimed that toll will be put in place on places of high economy on the expressway's inauguration speech
> 
> Originally designed for 120km/h speeds, Jasa Marga decreased the speed limits here to 100km/h when they are widening the roads to 3x2, iirc




Funny story though I can imagine that many Indonesians did not like the measure initially. But it is because of these tolls that the roads can be maintained and expanded having pretty good quality standards which otherwise would not be present. Okay, with the exception of few but the Jagorawi does its job well.


Also, the restrictions and limited number of exists makes the motorway feeling more convenient to travel. Therefor a trip from Jakarta to Cirebon feels convenient nowadays, otherwise it would have been clogged and have had bad maintenance, if it even were built. I think many countries of similar income levels should take a look at the Indonesian toll road scheme once the Trans-Java motorway is finished. 


No jokes, many similar countries in the region have much more work to do yet. Malaysia is one good example of the good way but Indonesia could be connected better before they reach Malaysia's income level (especially because Sabah and Sarawak are still lacking, when Indonesia is at $7000/capita/year half of Kalimantan and Sulawesi plus all of Sumatra will likely have toll roads). 
Thailand is a mess on this thing. Myanmar and Vietnam have not yet really taken off (okay, Da Nang has a toll road and Hanoi-China but they need to clear a lot of land yet, also, the actual first tolled Da Nang road is a fake highway). Philippines has yet to start with planning a large-scale network away from Luzon.


Okay, enough of the praise, because these two years will be years of working hard to finish the almost ~1000km that is under construction today.


----------



## Metra

Ok! Back to old bulgarian road videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cEUUsCYw5s


----------



## italystf

Duplication works of A555 between Bonn and Cologne in 1966.

A555 was the oldest autobahn in Germany and the only one built during Weimar Republic, not counting ASUS in Berlin, as it opened in 1932. Initially, it featured two lanes per direction, without median. Other reichautobahnnen built after 1935 featured a median instead.









http://www.rhein-zeitung.de/panoram...oeffnete-die-erste-autobahn-_arid,461887.html


----------



## italystf

Some rare colour photos of Reichautobahnnen



























































































I usually quote the source of online photos, but this time I made an exception, as I don't think this is an acceptable site to be linked there (something quite 'nostalgic' about the era). But those photos are intresting anyway (I don't deliberately visit these sites, I just found it while googling reichautobahn).


----------



## italystf

The first cloverleaf interchange in Europe opened in Stockholm in 1935


----------



## italystf

A4 near Verona in the 1980s. It was upgraded to 3x2 in the early 1990s.









http://mapio.net/s/54252998/


----------



## italystf

Half-profile A10 in Arenzano (near Genoa) in 1959










Rest area of Piani d'Invrea on A10 in 1962










A10 across Pegli (a western suburb of Genoa) in 1967. Only the section Genoa centre - Pegli was duplicated, after Pegli it started the single carriaggeway










A10 near Taggia in 1971










A10 near Arenzano (date unknown but before 1976, when it was duplicated)










http://www.stagniweb.it/foto6.asp?File=rivier02&InizioI=1&RigheI=50&Col=5


----------



## italystf

Workers occupy A4 near Dalmine (Bergamo) during a strike in 1969 1979









http://www.storylab.it/n/foto/4819/dalmine-sciopero-anni-60-70-con-il-blocco-dell-autostrada-bg-mi/


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ I think that should be later than 1969, maybe 1979, I see Fiat Ritmo


----------



## stickedy

Yes, it's later than 1969, there are a lot of car from the 70ies. You see that


----------



## x-type

Ford Fiesta mk1, Citroen CX, so must be second half of 1970es.
also Mercedes truck is the type from 70es (1626 probably)


----------



## x-type

italystf said:


> Some rare colour photos of Reichautobahnnen
> 
> 
> 
> https://nseuropa.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/reichsautobahn04.jpg?w=768&h=1168


wow, this should be that tunnel near Drackenstein at split section of A8


----------



## italystf

^^ Sorry, it was 1979, not 1969, my mistake.


----------



## darko06

italystf said:


> The first cloverleaf interchange in Europe opened in Stockholm in 1935


When I was visiting Stockholm in the Autumn last year, the whole cloverleaf was in the scaffoldings, fenced with wooden panels. It seemed that the bridge and cloverleaf will be demolished. Which is sad, because as Italystf said, this was the first one.


----------



## xrtn2

Via Anhanguera (sp-330) São Paulo state, Brazil 1955


Via Anhanguera entra São Paulo e Jundiaí (SP) by Werner Keifer, no Flickr



Via Anhanguera entra São Paulo e Jundiaí SP by Werner Keifer, no Flickr


Título- Via Anhanguera (SP) Local- São Paulo Ano- 1955 by Werner Keifer, no Flickr


Via Anhanguera entra São Paulo e Jundiaí SP. by Werner Keifer, no Flickr


Título- Via Anhanguera (SP) Local- São Paulo Ano- 1955 Descrição física- 1 fot. - neg., p&b Série- Acervo dos trabalhos geográficos de campo by Werner Keifer, no Flickr


----------



## Grotlaufen

darko06 said:


> When I was visiting Stockholm in the Autumn last year, the whole cloverleaf was in the scaffoldings, fenced with wooden panels. It seemed that the bridge and cloverleaf will be demolished. Which is sad, because as Italystf said, this was the first one.



When Slussen was built it was the single passage between northern and southern Stockholm (later that year in 1935 Västerbron was added, but it is to the very west from Slussen and didn't serve the same inter-city connections as Slussen did). Hence a free-flowing motorway-like structure was a good thing then. 
Nowadays its road connections are sleepy compared to the AADT of 80000 it once had 'til the 1970's when Essingeleden and Centralbron were completed. Most traffic between north and south take E4/E20 Essingeleden or Centralbron (which are spectacular in their own right) even if you're going between south-east/north-east of Stockholm (for one thing it's a motorway/semi-motorway, no traffic lights and such that can distract you). Going by Slussen today doesn't save you much time as a motorist in most cases as you'll get stuck at traffic lights and so on if passing through downtown Stockholm.


----------



## italystf

Half-profile A8 north of Milan, around 1960. It opened in 1924 (first "autostrada" of Italy and the 2nd carriaggeway was added in 1962.









(source: Pinterest)


----------



## darko06

Grotlaufen said:


> When Slussen was built it was the single passage between northern and southern Stockholm (later that year in 1935 Västerbron was added, but it is to the very west from Slussen and didn't serve the same inter-city connections as Slussen did). Hence a free-flowing motorway-like structure was a good thing then.
> Nowadays its road connections are sleepy compared to the AADT of 80000 it once had 'til the 1970's when Essingeleden and Centralbron were completed. Most traffic between north and south take E4/E20 Essingeleden or Centralbron (which are spectacular in their own right) even if you're going between south-east/north-east of Stockholm (for one thing it's a motorway/semi-motorway, no traffic lights and such that can distract you). Going by Slussen today doesn't save you much time as a motorist in most cases as you'll get stuck at traffic lights and so on if passing through downtown Stockholm.


Thank you for the explanation.


----------



## Luki_SL

A4 Motorway in Katowice near Valley of Three Ponds, 1996.









From : Trybuna Śląska

 Nowadays


----------



## MattiG

*Finland*

Some pairs of photos:

Helsinki Inner City, 1930s:










Nowadays:










Turku, 1958. The road 8:










Nowadays. Trams disappeared in Turku in the early 1970s:










Särkänsalmi ferry, 1938:










Nowadays, the regional road 189. Bridge opened in 1970.


----------



## Grotlaufen

Pictures from Gothenburg, SE:










Tingstadstunneln under construction, 1965










Tingstadstunneln from the south after inauguration 1968. No wonder it took about seven years (1961-1968) to finish this project.


----------



## italystf

Sweden - Finland border crossing in summer 1967, shortly before the Dagen H (3 september 1967), when Sweden switched the driving side from left to right.
At the border there were special lanes to change driving direction.
There were no border checkpoints because the Nordic Passport Union was already in force.


----------



## darko06

italystf said:


> Sweden - Finland border crossing in summer 1967 ...


Beautiful lady at the end of the movie.


----------



## OulaL

italystf said:


> Sweden - Finland border crossing in summer 1967, shortly before the Dagen H (3 september 1967), when Sweden switched the driving side from left to right.


Interestingly the right-pointing arrow seen from the Swedish side is Finnish style (of that time), the one seen from the Finnish side is Swedish style.

I can't tell the location of the actual borderline, but surely the latter one is at least closer to Finland.


----------



## MattiG

italystf said:


> There were no border checkpoints because the Nordic Passport Union was already in force.


Yes there were. The passport union is not similar to the Schengen Treaty allowing people to cross to border wherever they want. There were checkpoints, but mainly for the customs operations. Later, the Swedish customs office was closed, and the remaining one in Finland was operated by both countries. The checkpoints were located a few hundred meters from the border line. Usually, the checks were random. The people crossing the border have to be able to prove their right to cross the border by some means. About any document goes, but usually opening the mouth is enough.


----------



## italystf

Opening of SS36 Milan - Giussano in 1959

Originally it was not a freeway, but it had at-grade intersections with traffic lights and even bicycle paths.









http://forum.milanotrasporti.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5945&start=75


----------



## italystf

Photos of SS36 in 1993, when they were upgrading it into a freeway, by making all its junctions grade-separated



















http://forum.milanotrasporti.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5945&start=75


----------



## elbong

Highway incident on the M3 highway in here from 1985:









































fortepan.hu


----------



## elbong

Traffic jam on the M7 from 1986:









because of an accident:

















fortepan.hu


----------



## elbong

Accident on the BAH interchange (M1/M7 urban end) from 1984:
















fortepan.hu


----------



## elbong

Police check on the M7 from 1966:








































fortepan.hu


----------



## elbong

Accident on the M7 from 1974:









Accident on the M1/M7 from 1975:









fortepan.hu


----------



## Galro

E-6, 1960s, Norway.


----------



## Galro

And a colour picture showing E-18 towards Oslo from the '60s.


----------



## Kpc21

elbong said:


>


What brand were those vans? They look exactly like the Polish Nysa.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ ^^ dented Lada, three fatalities, six injured :lol:


----------



## elbong

Kpc21 said:


> What brand were those vans? They look exactly like the Polish Nysa.


Yes, Nysa. 









source


----------



## x-type

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ ^^ dented Lada, three fatalities, six injured :lol:


i think fatalities came from destroyed Trabant in front of Lada.


----------



## x-type

center of Sesvete, much before A4 (and probably A3 motorway) era. note the direction signs for Wien and Budapest.










today:
https://www.google.hr/maps/@45.8270...4!1sOS8BNkEXT_OPW8lcIZgiVQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


----------



## sotavento

Portugal during WW2 e, 1944 ... notice that each link contains a gallery with multiple photos:


"Autoestrada do estádio" A5 








http://lh6.ggpht.com/-14oIkPFwZkc/T...Estrada-Lisboa-Estdio.9_thumb7.jpg?imgmax=800
























http://restosdecoleccao.blogspot.pt/2012/02/1-auto-estrada-em-portugal.html

"Marginal" N6
















http://restosdecoleccao.blogspot.pt/2011/07/estrada-marginal-da-costa-do-estoril-2.html

Main highway A1
















http://autoclube.acp.pt/especiais/entity/ha-25-anos-que-a-a1-ficou-completa

Salazar bridge in 1960's (N6 just by the riverbed and the A5 far in the back) 








https://www.motor24.pt/motores/imagens-da-construcao-da-ponte-tejo-1962/









http://ecribeiro.com/autoestradas/









http://anossaterrinha.blogspot.pt/2010/09/os-campeoes-das-auto-estradas-1.html









http://umgrandehotel.blogspot.pt/2015/02/a-primeira-auto-estrada-de-portugal.html









http://restosdecoleccao.blogspot.pt/2012/02/1-auto-estrada-em-portugal.html









https://ruixisto3112.wordpress.com/2014/04/15/primeira-auto-estrada-em-portugal/


----------



## italystf

ChrisZwolle said:


> Brazil, Argentina and Venezuela built their first freeways in the early 1950s.


Earlier than most European countries. Due to war and, later, reconstruction issues, most European countries didn't build motorways in 1940-1955 period.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Italy built relatively many motorways in the final years of the 1950s. 

Most European countries were rebuilding their bridges, industry, sanitation and housing stock so motorways did not have the highest priority until the late 1950s.


----------



## verreme

Sasza said:


> What the hell. Show some evidence or be gone.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_do_Brasil



> Its first president was Friedrich Schultz-Wenk, who had emigrated to Brazil in 1950 after a brief stint as a prisoner of war followed by some time in Wolfsburg


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaus_Barbie



> he may also have helped the CIA capture Argentinian revolutionary Che Guevara in 1967. Barbie is suspected of having had a hand in the Bolivian coup d'état orchestrated by Luis García Meza Tejada in 1980


----------



## italystf

ChrisZwolle said:


> Italy built relatively many motorways in the final years of the 1950s.
> 
> Most European countries were rebuilding their bridges, industry, sanitation and housing stock so motorways did not have the highest priority until the late 1950s.


In Italy the first post-war "autostrada" (the 1st carriaggeway of A10 Genoa-Savona) was started in 1954 and opened in 1956. It was designed in 1939.
Construction of many other motorways started in 1956-60.
A single-carriaggeway section of GRA (Rome's ringroad) was built in 1948-51, but it wasn't initially supposed to become a motorway (GRA was completed and signed as motorway only in 1979).
A 2-lanes expressway was completed between Trieste and Sistiana by the Anglo-American occupation, circa 1948-49, but it was more intended to move the army quickly in case of war, rather than for civilian traffic. It was signed as SS202 after Italy re-took control of Trieste in 1954 and in the 80s it was partly duplicated into RA13 motorway, and partly remained in use as local road.


----------



## italystf

ChrisZwolle said:


> Most European countries were rebuilding their bridges, industry, sanitation and housing stock so motorways did not have the highest priority until the late 1950s.


Moreover traffic volumes were so low until 60 years ago, so probably motorways weren't needed anyway, except maybe near larger cities.
In Italy private motorization was quite a luxury until the middle 1950s (the Fiat 600 introduced in 1956 is considered the first car widely used by the working class), and even in the 1970s the number of cars around was still lower than today.


----------



## Uppsala

In Sweden the first road that was similar to a motorway was built in 1940s from Göteborg to Alingsås. Thats a dual carriaggeway but very similar to a motorway. The first real motorway was from Malmö to Lund and it was opened 1953.


----------



## xrtn2

verreme said:


> Lots of nazis fled to Latin America after WWII. Some of them worked torturing political prisoners of US-backed dictatorships and some other established Volkswagen factories.


Brazil banned vehicle import in 1953, since then VW, Dodge, chrysler, Renault established car factories in Brazil

1960 São Paulo









Via Dutra opened 1951



















Osario-Porto Alegre highway in 1975










Via Castelo Branco in 1974


Rodovia Castelo Branco 1974 - Digitalizaçāo Werner Keifer. by Werner Keifer, no Flickr

Via Anhanguera in 1948










Brazil used white center lines before 90's


BRASIL by Werner Keifer, no Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

italystf said:


> Moreover traffic volumes were so low until 60 years ago, so probably motorways weren't needed anyway, except maybe near larger cities.
> In Italy private motorization was quite a luxury until the middle 1950s (the Fiat 600 introduced in 1956 is considered the first car widely used by the working class), and even in the 1970s the number of cars around was still lower than today.


Before World War II, car ownership was considerably higher in North America than in Europe. By 1930, 50% of households in the U.S. had a car, in Europe this was generally around 5-10% at that time. 

Argentina was one of the wealthiest countries in the world in the early 20th century. In 1929, half of all passenger cars in South America were in Argentina.


----------



## volodaaaa

The car ownership was considered luxury here until 90s. Now it is normal for family to have two or three cars especially in suburban areas. It is crazy. The number of overall drivable vehicles registered in Slovakia doubled between 2005 and 2015. Average car occupancy in 2005 was 3,5 passenger - now, in some more developed regions of SK it is less more than 1 passenger. 

The optimal division of transport modes in terms of public - private dichotomy is as follows: 33 % always using private cars (because of the nature of their jobs, or maybe hate public transport very much), 33 % always using public transport (because they are not eligible to drive a car or just cannot afford it) and 33 % are battlefield. 

In Slovakia 27 % uses public transport, which is bad.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Slovakia's public transport usage is actually among the highest in Europe. 75% of passenger travel in Slovakia is by car, which is 8 percentage points lower than the EU average.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/transport/data/main-tables


----------



## volodaaaa

ChrisZwolle said:


> Slovakia's public transport usage is actually among the highest in Europe. 75% of passenger travel in Slovakia is by car, which is 8 percentage points lower than the EU average.
> 
> http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/transport/data/main-tables



Yeah, but we literally do our best do make it worse while others do all their best to make it better :lol: I have visited some west-EU towns and can compare it. 



It is quite trendy here to take your car to reach e. g. 1 km distance. Bicycle is considered a sport by many people. The only real progress is in walking - lot of people understood its importance for their health.


----------



## Attus

volodaaaa said:


> I have visited some west-EU towns and can compare it.


I think we are very off topic here...


----------



## Attus

ChrisZwolle said:


> Argentina was one of the wealthiest countries in the world in the early 20th century. In 1929, half of all passenger cars in South America were in Argentina.


Many people think nations which are rich today were rich 80 years ago, and which are poor today were poor 80 years ago. But this is not necesserily true and Argentina is one of the best examples.


----------



## Junkie

volodaaaa said:


> The car ownership was considered luxury here until 90s.


In the communist Czechoslovakia I guess it was normal to have only one vehicle per family. This is totally not strange since there was not much movement nor a capitalist system of endless crazy production and consumption.


----------



## italystf

Attus said:


> Many people think nations which are rich today were rich 80 years ago, and which are poor today were poor 80 years ago. But this is not necesserily true and Argentina is one of the best examples.


Back then, Czechoslovakia was richer than Austria for example.


----------



## Kanadzie

Sasza said:


> What the hell. Show some evidence or be gone.


For just two obvious examples, Adolf Eichmann moved to Argentina and worked in a local Mercedes-Benz factory and Otto Skorzeny was a "consultant" to the Perons...


----------



## Kpc21

volodaaaa said:


> The car ownership was considered luxury here until 90s.


Same here in Poland. Although the number of cars was growing rapidly all the time in the 1990s and 2000s - and it's still growing, although not at such a pace. Meanwhile, still more and more local bus connections (out of big cities) disappear, recently much faster than before (even though this process continues from the 1990s).

Although it began in 1970s and 1980s with the introduction of Fiat 126p.



Junkie said:


> In the communist Czechoslovakia I guess it was normal to have only one vehicle per family.


In Poland, before 1970s/1980s very few families had cars. After the introduction of Fiat 126p - definitely more, but still it was much less than one car for a family. And it wasn't common at all to use car to commute to work before the 1990s.

And to be on-topic - Warsaw in 1992:



Andrus said:


> Ulica Zamoyskiego w Warszawie, na pierwszym planie Ikarus linii F. Rok 1992.
> Źródło: Warszawa Praga w XX wieku.


EN57 train (longest produced rail vehicle in the world and still the most popular one in Poland), Ikarus 280 (or 260), 2x Autosan H9, Fiat 126p, FSO Polonez, the green one seems to be Fiat 125p.

There is also a difficult to identify (because barely visible) van between the two Autosan buses.

I remember times when still in the early 2000s definitely the most commonly met car in the streets in Poland was Fiat 126p. Now - it's difficult to say, there is a huge variety, but the older cars on our roads tend to be of German makes. Meanwhile, it's difficult to meet cars of makes such as Fiat or Daewoo which still used to be popular 10 years ago. It's rare to see e.g. Fiat Uno in the streets and once it was quite a popular car. Fiat Cinquecento or Daewoo Matiz are also disappearing - there are still some Seicento just because they were still produced in 2010.

Or Polonez - they were produced until 2002 - and while there is many German cars from 1990s in Poland nowadays, Polonezes are unseen.


----------



## sotavento

Sasza said:


> What the hell. Show some evidence or be gone.


How many pictures of tortured prisioners before SSC bans you permanently ??? :lol:



italystf said:


> Earlier than most European countries. Due to war and, later, reconstruction issues, most European countries didn't build motorways in 1940-1955 period.


Only portugal had a booming infraestructure construction during WW2 

1942: estrada marginal (sea shore road)








http://lisboadeantigamente.blogspot.com/2016/04/estrada-marginal-da-costa-do-estoril.html









Estrada do Estadio (N7 -nowadays A5 motorway) 








http://portugalidade.blogspot.com/2013/02/politicamente-correcto-duarte-pacheco-e.html

Snow in early 1945 ... also in the "estrada do estadio" (National 7 at the time ... A5 motorway)








http://restosdecoleccao.blogspot.com/2012/12/nevao-em-lisboa-em-1945.html


----------



## Uppsala

sotavento said:


> How many pictures of tortured prisioners before SSC bans you permanently ??? :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> Only portugal had a booming infraestructure construction during WW2
> 
> 1942: estrada marginal (sea shore road)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://lisboadeantigamente.blogspot.com/2016/04/estrada-marginal-da-costa-do-estoril.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Estrada do Estadio (N7 -nowadays A5 motorway)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://portugalidade.blogspot.com/2013/02/politicamente-correcto-duarte-pacheco-e.html
> 
> Snow in early 1945 ... also in the "estrada do estadio" (National 7 at the time ... A5 motorway)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://restosdecoleccao.blogspot.com/2012/12/nevao-em-lisboa-em-1945.html



Nice and interesting pictures from Portugal! :happy:

How is those places look like now? Because it is still a motorway


----------



## italystf

Even Cuba built some motorways and even a subsea tunnel in La Habana during the 1950s, when it was allied to the USA, and now it has an extremely dilapidate infrastructural system and cars are a luxury.


----------



## bogdymol

A bridge under construction near Constanta, Romania, over the Danube-Black Sea channel, back in the '80s. Google street view link.


----------



## Highway89

A video of the history of the AP-6 in Spain. It's in Spanish, but it contains some interesting images.






They say that the first stretch of motorway in Spain was the A-3 around Vallecas (I thought it was the A-2 from Madrid to the Torrejón air base?): https://www.google.es/maps/dir/40.4.../@40.3939483,-3.6418835,14z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0


----------



## verreme

^^ AFAIK A-2 was not a motorway (no access restriction, right-in, right-out junctions).


----------



## Schule04

Some pictures of Hungary I found on Wikimedia:

M7-M1 fork in 1972:


2014:


The village of Tiszaeszlár in 1939:


2011:


Adony, 1955:


I believe this is the same place in 2011:


----------



## Schule04

Budapest 1958:


Today:


Road 11 at Visegrád, 1939:


Today:


----------



## Schule04

Tisza bridge at Tiszaug, 1929:








Image source

Since the 1950s a train track also shared the same bridge with the car traffic. Because motorized traffic increased a lot in the 1990s and the road was too narrow (two lorries could not pass on the bridge at the same time), a new bridge was built. The old bridge is only used by trains today:


----------



## Alex_ZR

Schule04 said:


> Road 11 at Visegrád, 1939:


Left-hand traffic in Hungary until 1941.


----------



## Corvinus

Schule04 said:


> Budapest 1958:


Hint on the rear of the bus says "Drive without accidents!". Notice the white-on-black license plate, color scheme for public transportation vehicles including taxis.


----------



## Junkie

Alex_ZR said:


> Left-hand traffic in Hungary until 1941.


Does it mean in "Vojvodina" there was a left hand traffic considering it was Hungarian land.


----------



## Alex_ZR

Junkie said:


> Does it mean in "Vojvodina" there was a left hand traffic considering it was Hungarian land.


Yes, until 1918.


----------



## Kpc21

Corvinus said:


> Hint on the rear of the bus says "Drive without accidents!". Notice the white-on-black license plate, color scheme for public transportation vehicles including taxis.


Similar to the Polish scheme for all cars which was valid until March 2000 and which still from time to time can be noticed on some cars (it's still valid)


----------



## ajch

Caracas, Venezuela, 1970s. Avenida Bolivar.
Here: https://goo.gl/maps/FrThUDf8zKX8Cnm56










Caracas, Venezuela, 1970s. Enlace El Pulpo
Here: https://goo.gl/maps/8SGRuXRQ3E3e57Eu8


----------



## italystf

Kpc21 said:


> Similar to the Polish scheme for all cars which was valid until March 2000 and which still from time to time can be noticed on some cars (it's still valid)


Many European countries used black plates in the past, including Italy (until 1985), France, and Austria.


----------



## sotavento

Uppsala said:


> Nice and interesting pictures from Portugal! :happy:
> 
> How is those places look like now? Because it is still a motorway











https://www.**********/stock-photo-lisbon-monsanto-a5-portugal-motorway-43442828.html









https://lifecooler.com/artigo/atividades/serra-de-monsanto/349375









https://24.sapo.pt/atualidade/artig...apos-acidente-na-a5-no-sentido-cascais-lisboa

This section of the A5 motorway jas a AADT of 140.000 ... slightly less than the 160.000 that pass under the viaduct (25 de abril bridge main access road). :cheers:


----------



## Uppsala

sotavento said:


> https://www.**********/stock-photo-lisbon-monsanto-a5-portugal-motorway-43442828.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://lifecooler.com/artigo/atividades/serra-de-monsanto/349375
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://24.sapo.pt/atualidade/artig...apos-acidente-na-a5-no-sentido-cascais-lisboa
> 
> This section of the A5 motorway jas a AADT of 140.000 ... slightly less than the 160.000 that pass under the viaduct (25 de abril bridge main access road). :cheers:



Nice! Thank You! :happy:


----------



## MattiG

italystf said:


> Many European countries used black plates in the past, including Italy (until 1985), France, and Austria.


Finland switched from the black background to white in 1972. Even now, black plates are available to cars registered in 1972 or earlier.


----------



## Uppsala

^^
Countries in Europe with black plates in the past, after 1945:

Austria: before 1990
Bulgaria: before 1986?
Cyprus: before 1973 (old UK-style)
Denmark: before 1976
Finland: before 1972
France: before 1993
Ireland: before 1987? (old UK-style)
Italy: before 1985
Luxembourg: before 1973
Malta: before 1979
Netherlands: before 1978
Poland: before 2000
Portugal: before 1992
Soviet Union: before 1980
Turkey: before 1962
UK: before 1972?


Only one country in Europe still using black plates: *Liechtenstein*


----------



## Spookvlieger

Is there any country that never switched color in the last 100 years in Europe besides Belgium?


----------



## Uppsala

joshsam said:


> Is there any country that never switched color in the last 100 years in Europe besides Belgium?



Germany, Sweden, Spain, Switzerland


----------



## Eurosnob

Uppsala said:


> ^^
> Countries in Europe with black plates in the past, after 1945:
> 
> Austria: before 1990
> Bulgaria: before 1986?
> Cyprus: before 1973 (old UK-style)
> Denmark: before 1976
> Finland: before 1972
> France: before 1993
> Ireland: before 1987? (old UK-style)
> Italy: before 1985
> Luxembourg: before 1973
> Malta: before 1979
> Netherlands: before 1978
> Poland: before 2000
> Portugal: before 1992
> Soviet Union: before 1980
> Turkey: before 1962
> UK: before 1972?
> 
> 
> Only one country in Europe still using black plates: *Liechtenstein*


Small correction: Dutch number plates used to be blue before they turned yellow, not black (unless they were really dirty).


----------



## rakcancer

Uppsala said:


> ^^
> Countries in Europe with black plates in the past, after 1945:
> 
> Austria: before 1990
> Bulgaria: before 1986?
> Cyprus: before 1973 (old UK-style)
> Denmark: before 1976
> Finland: before 1972
> France: before 1993
> Ireland: before 1987? (old UK-style)
> Italy: before 1985
> Luxembourg: before 1973
> Malta: before 1979
> Netherlands: before 1978
> Poland: before 2000
> Portugal: before 1992
> Soviet Union: before 1980
> Turkey: before 1962
> UK: before 1972?
> 
> 
> Only one country in Europe still using black plates: *Liechtenstein*


 My mom drove her little Fiat 126p in Poland with black plates till 3 years ago...


----------



## Luki_SL

^^Black plates (issued before 2000) are still valid in Poland. You still can find a car with black plates.


----------



## DanielFigFoz

Yes, as in the other countries (or most of them at least).


----------



## Kpc21

Interestingly, the licence plates according to the Polish standard which was issued until 1976 had to be exchanged to the new ones till the end of 1983. So there was just a 6-year deadline. Meanwhile, the last black ones were issued until 2000 – and after 19 years they remain valid and there is still no deadline for exchanging them defined.

Some regions of Poland currently have problems with not having enough licence plate numbers to issue – so a few years ago the length of the plates got extended from 7 to 8 characters (i.e. 8-character numbers are issued when the county runs out of 7-character ones) and furthermore, some counties are getting some extra letter symbols in addition to the original ones to extend the range. Finally killing the black licence plates would free quite a big range of numbers (of the LLLDDDD and LLLDDDL formats; L – letter, D – digit – those formats were used on the black license plates and because of that they are never used on the white plates).

What's more, keeping them is desired by those buying older cars – but to do it it's not so easy. Basically if you buy a used car, even within the same county (when normally you could leave the old plates), if it has black plates, they must be exchanged. Some people use a workaround based on making several transactions of selling a share in the car, so that finally 100% of it is passed onto the new owner – but from what I have read, some local authorities don't accept this workaround.

Actually, those black plates from before 2000 are not that uncommon. E.g. today I saw an Opel Corsa B with such plates (and even with a PL sticker in the shape of an ellipse). If you look carefully, it's really not a problem to find some cars with the black plates just walking or driving around the town.

Black plates on an old used car are a good sign when you want to buy it because they confirm the car has had the same owner for very long.


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## Kanadzie

I miss white on black plates. Old Polish are great, old French too. And the famous yellow on black from California in the 60's, which I think are now available as an option again...

In Ontario, people with classic cars can even wear plates from 1950's or earlier if they find a pair of them and they match the vehicle year.


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## Eurosnob

Uppsala said:


> Germany, Sweden, Spain, Switzerland


Germany had black plates in the period 1945-1957.


----------



## RipleyLV

The Soviet Union (Latvia) also had black plates.


----------



## gibranalnn

Indonesia also have black plates even today.


----------



## RipleyLV

*A10* between Rīga and Jūrmala. Also the busiest road in Latvia ATM (AADT ~ 44 000).










Source: LVC Facebook


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## RipleyLV

^^ Few more pics:


----------



## piotr71

Uppsala said:


> ^^
> Countries in Europe with black plates in the past, after 1945:
> 
> Austria: before 1990
> Bulgaria: before 1986?
> Cyprus: before 1973 (old UK-style)
> Denmark: before 1976
> Finland: before 1972
> France: before 1993
> Ireland: before 1987? (old UK-style)
> Italy: before 1985
> Luxembourg: before 1973
> Malta: before 1979
> Netherlands: before 1978
> Poland: before 2000
> Portugal: before 1992
> Soviet Union: before 1980
> Turkey: before 1962
> UK: before 1972?
> 
> 
> Only one country in Europe still using black plates: *Liechtenstein*


Not really.even though we cannot consider Channel Islands as an independent state, they still use black ones.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Kanadzie said:


> I miss white on black plates. Old Polish are great, old French too. And the famous yellow on black from California in the 60's, which I think are now available as an option again...
> 
> In Ontario, people with classic cars can even wear plates from 1950's or earlier if they find a pair of them and they match the vehicle year.




Huh! I saw a black California on my recent trip. Did a double-take. I just assumed the person had kept that plate all these decades through a series of cars.


----------



## DanielFigFoz

piotr71 said:


> Not really.even though we cannot consider Channel Islands as an independent state, they still use black ones.


Guernsey does (though white/yellow ones as in the UK are also issued there). Alderney is pretty much anything goes I think, but the plates are generally black or white/yellow. 

Jersey plates are white/yellow.


----------



## mgk920

Kanadzie said:


> I miss white on black plates. Old Polish are great, old French too. And the famous yellow on black from California in the 60's, which I think are now available as an option again...
> 
> In Ontario, people with classic cars can even wear plates from 1950's or earlier if they find a pair of them and they match the vehicle year.


The yellow on black California plates issued after about 1964 are still valid with proper stickers, they are in the same number sequence that is being issued today. In California, the plates stay with the car and yes, 1960s era cars are still on the road there with those valid plates.

Mike


----------



## bogdymol

Historic Swiss video teaching drivers how to use the motorway correctly.


----------



## VITORIA MAN

Gasolinera Puerta de Hierro. Madrid by Biblioteca de la Facultad de Empresa y Gestión Pública Universidad de Zaragoza, en Flickr
puerta de hierro , Madrid 1942


----------



## Highway89

^^ Current location: https://www.google.es/maps/@40.4537328,-3.7437899,405m/data=!3m1!1e3

It lasted at least until 1980:




























The Puerta de Hierro itslef had its location moved northwards to accomodate the A-6/M-30 junction:


----------



## VITORIA MAN

some years before








https://rutasenmadrid.es/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Puerta-de-Hierro-1930.jpg


----------



## Corvinus

A genuine GDR directional road sign from this documentary. As in Western Germany, numbers (shields) of non-motorway intercity roads were yellow, but different from the West, the sign's overall background was white instead of yellow. The trunk roads were called "Fernstrasse" instead of "Bundesstrasse", as the term "Bundes..." ("Federal") was not in use at all in the GDR.











And a motorway in winter with a snowplow, most likely a Soviet-made SIL as the documentary has presented that one just before


----------



## Wrocl'awianin

Current A1 Motorway nearby Piotrków Trybunalski visited by Metallica in 1987.


----------



## PovilD

I like the way how Poland were marking bigger cities in bigger letters at least in older signs. I don't know if Poland still uses this format today at least on secondary class roads on new signs. In new droga ekspresowa sections, it clearly seems that all cities are marked in the same letter size no matter the size of the city. (there are different font sizes, but more as a matter of design).


----------



## Kpc21

But Częstochowa and Katowice (big cities) are much bigger than Cieszyn, which is just a small town


----------



## Grotlaufen

Construction of Ölandsbron Kalmar-Färjestaden, ca. 1970 with a view towards Öland. The land to the bottom of the picture is Svinö, an island next to the town Kalmar and has been used as a rest stop since the bridge opened in 1972.


----------



## Uppsala

^^
This bridge called Ölandsbron (Ölands Bridge) was experienced as fantastic when it was new in 1972. This was someone the Swedish state was proud of. It was one of the longest bridges in Europe of its time.

Today, not many people in Sweden think it is so remarkable anymore. Öresundsbron (Öresund Bridge) that runs between Sweden and Denmark is considerably longer and it is a more important route as well. But this shows that times are changing.


----------



## PovilD

Kpc21 said:


> But Częstochowa and Katowice (big cities) are much bigger than Cieszyn, which is just a small town


It seems logical to put bigger cities in bigger letters and I always had such idea while seeing such signs, even recognizing the city names that I do know they're larger 

Maybe Cieszyn stands for whole Czech Rep... Czechoslovakia  ...and I don't know any other reason why to put small town in bigger letters (unless maybe it's some important interchange, idk)


----------



## PovilD

Uppsala said:


> ^^
> This bridge called Ölandsbron (Ölands Bridge) was experienced as fantastic when it was new in 1972. This was someone the Swedish state was proud of. It was one of the longest bridges in Europe of its time.
> 
> Today, not many people in Sweden think it is so remarkable anymore. Öresundsbron (Öresund Bridge) that runs between Sweden and Denmark is considerably longer and it is a more important route as well. But this shows that times are changing.


Considering location and direction of the bridge, It always inspires me to imagine building such bridge across the Baltics via Gotland Island. It would be way faster to drive to Sweden but way more tiresome due to long distance across the sea  Some faster than ferry fixed link from Latvia/Lithuania to Sweden would be great for better connections, but there are distances, in current today technologies and economy levels, it's almost as probable as building road/railway across The Atlantic Ocean.


----------



## alserrod

Next Tuesday, Teruel viaduct will be 90 years old.

I have found a nice pic about when it was opened










Teruel city is a sum of several little hills... but for instance, railway station is just down of that viaduct (this is, all up and down, there are several lifts on this small city and one more in project)

Due to traffic, in 1992 a new viaduct was u/c, finished in 1994











According to that era (1929), it is not so far to Madrid viaduct on Bailen street, besides Royal Palace











This is an image of current two viaducts after 1994.











And in google maps

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.339...4!1sryfcgJCUlGHhKIwkCJOnlg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


N-234 Sagunto-Burgos, N-420 Córdoba-Tarragona and N-330 Alicante-Zaragoza-France crossed that viaduct.

I do not remember N-234 by-pass date but N-420 to Alcañiz was opened in 2003. Coming from Valencia you had to cross from there to go North (coming from west, just surrounding viaduct but city centre too)

a visit to the city deserves to walk around it


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ This 1976 article talks about how Teruel is 'split in two' due to a closure of the viaduct. It also mentions a bypass that was supposedly planned to be completed in 1975 but was delayed or something.

ABC: http://hemeroteca.abc.es/nav/Navigate.exe/hemeroteca/madrid/abc/1976/09/17/033.html


----------



## Grotlaufen

Some news articles from the Danish Engineering Journal from the opening of new ferry lines at the Great Belt and Fehmarn belt in 1957 and 1963.


In 1957 a new ferry route for car traffic opened at the Danish Great Belt (Halsskov - Knudshoved). Apart from two new ports (the old ones were converted for railway ferry traffic), some two motorway stretches next to the ports opened on Zealand and Funen.



https://www.e-pages.dk/ingarkiv/5817/57

A description of the new ferry route Halsskov - Knudshoved

https://www.e-pages.dk/ingarkiv/5817/60

A description of the new motorways on Zealand and Funen with pictures of the construction. 

*******
In 1963 the Fehmarn belt opened with new ports in Rodbyhavn (DK) and Puttgarden (DE). 

https://www.e-pages.dk/ingarkiv/7842/04

A description of the road traffic with a forecast for the Summer vacation traffic in 1980 - including a new road network in eastern Denmark and Copenhagen. IRL some of the stretches didn't open until several ears after 1980 such as the motorway in southern Zealand and the islands of Lolland and Falster. A dotted line represent the ringroad 5 in Copenhagen (Koge - Elsinore), which has yet if ever to come into fruition.


https://www.e-pages.dk/ingarkiv/7842/60

Construction pictures and a description of Rodbyhavn - Sakskobing

https://www.e-pages.dk/ingarkiv/7842/18

A blueprint of the port in Rodbyhavn


https://www.e-pages.dk/ingarkiv/7842/30

A new bridge had to be constructed in the town Nykobing/Falster across Guldborgsund for the railway traffic to fit with the new line to Rodbyhavn. The new bridge is movable and dimensioned both for the railway traffic as well as two carriageways (2+2). A new railway station were constructed for the town as well, the town is a railway junction where trains from Copenhagen split into going to Gedser or Rodbyhavn. Previously there was a bridge across the sound to the further north for both railway and car traffic.

https://www.e-pages.dk/ingarkiv/7842/52

Some photos of the new buildings in Nykobing/Falster and Rodbyhavn, including blueprints of the constructions.


----------



## MattiG

Grotlaufen said:


> Some news articles from the Danish Engineering Journal from the opening of new ferry lines at the Great Belt and Fehmarn belt in 1957 and 1963.
> 
> 
> In 1957 a new ferry route for car traffic opened at the Danish Great Belt (Halsskov - Knudshoved). Apart from two new ports (the old ones were converted for railway ferry traffic), some two motorway stretches next to the ports opened on Zealand and Funen.


Denmark seems to have made the decisions pretty quickly. There was a short news in Helsingin Sanomat (#1 paper in Finland) in August 1956, with headline "16 km bridge from Sjælland and Fyn". A quick and dirty translation:

A goverment-nominated technical committee has approved the plan to build a 16-km double-decker bridge to connect islands of Sjælland and Fyn.

The upper deck would have four lanes for cars, and the lower one would have two railway tracks and two lanes for pedestrians and cyclists.

The bridge would be built from Sjælland to a small island of Sprogø, and further on to Knudshoved an Fyn.

According to the plans, the bridge would have room for 2500 cars per hour: about ten times the current ferry capacity.

So far, there has been no discussion about where to get the money for the bridge.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Not in my country, but close:

https://montrealgazette.com/news/lo...Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1572261830


----------



## Grotlaufen

MattiG said:


> Denmark seems to have made the decisions pretty quickly.
> 
> A goverment-nominated technical committee has approved the plan to build a 16-km double-decker bridge to connect islands of Sjælland and Fyn.


I don't know what the article meant by the description "government-nominated technical committee", but approval for any Danish infrastructure project has to be passed as a law by parliament/Folketinget ("Anlægslov") before any construction can start. Even if the law passes, the current or next government/parliamentarian majority may ignore the decision to build it, or postpone it by not allocating funding for it ,or not funding for all measures prescribed by the law.


----------



## Kpc21

A queue to a gas station in Poland in 1989.

The sign says "The last car which will be refuelled".

Why?

An article in Polish: https://histmag.org/Slalom-na-pustym-baku...-Rynek-motoryzacyjny-w-Polsce-lat-80.-cz.-4-8160/1

"A slalom with an empty tank" – The car market in Poland of the 1980s.


----------



## MattiG

Grotlaufen said:


> I don't know what the article meant by the description "government-nominated technical committee", but approval for any Danish infrastructure project has to be passed as a law by parliament/Folketinget ("Anlægslov") before any construction can start. Even if the law passes, the current or next government/parliamentarian majority may ignore the decision to build it, or postpone it by not allocating funding for it ,or not funding for all measures prescribed by the law.


The story dates back for 60+ years.


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## Kpc21

Kpc21 said:


> Why?
> 
> An article in Polish: https://histmag.org/Slalom-na-pustym-baku...-Rynek-motoryzacyjny-w-Polsce-lat-80.-cz.-4-8160/1
> 
> "A slalom with an empty tank" – The car market in Poland of the 1980s.


If someone doesn't speak Polish:



> When the lucky citizen of the PRL (Polish People's Republic) awaited its new car or paid huge money for a second-hand one, it seemed to him that it's the end of the difficulties. However, new problems came ahead.
> 
> -- In a queue to an empty pump --
> 
> A necessary product for one who became an owner of the car dreamed of was, of course, gas. On the Polish market, it was mostly "etylina 78" and "etylina 94" (from the number of octanes in the European scale). Due to worsening financial condition of the state and the progresing international fuel crisis, PRL could import from year to year a decreasing amount of petroleum. The import dropped, for example, in 1981 from over 16 million to 13.5 million and from 1986 it stayed on the level of 14 million tonnes. Because the number of cars on the market was increasing and the gas supplies to the private market stayed on a fixed level, already in spring 1980 the first signs of gas shortages started to appear. Within the regions, some partial rationing methods were introduced, such as buying fuel on even and odd days (depending on the last digit of the license plate number), limited number of gas in a single purchase or prohibited reilling of jerry cans. From September to December 1981, the gasoline delivery to the CPN stations (back then, the Polish state fuel monopolist, this was what now is called Orlen) was so rare and irregular that one had to be very lucky to manage to refuel a car.
> 
> For some time, there were also some false hopes related to huge oil-bearing areas around Karlin in Pomerania. In December 1980, oil sprinkled from the well, which caused a fire. After the rescue action, extraction began. However, it quickly turned out that most of it is too polluted and it's not affordable to exploit those resources. The oil was extracted only from a single well, which brought yearly about 29200 tonnes. The total amount of oil extracted yearly in Poland slightly exceeded 200,000 tonnes.
> 
> With the introduction of martial law on 13 December 1981, sale of gas to private customers got suspended. It started again on 1 February 1982. People could buy fuel only 3 times a month, only on the days that end with the last digit of the license plate number (e.g. WIE 5962 refuelled on 2nd, 12th and 22nd day of the month). The amount of fuel was limited to 10 liters for cars with engines up to 900 ccm, 15 liters for those above 900 ccm and a single full tank for motorcycles and mopeds. The fact of buying gasoline had to be confirmed by a station employee on the reverse of the insurance payment receipt. Later the limits were raised and they were monthly 30 liters (below 1000 ccm) or 45 liters (above 1000 ccm).
> 
> Between August 1982 and March 1983, rationed wasn't low-octane "etylina 78". It lead to increased interest in older cars that could use it (especially cheap Syrenas) and to DIY trials of converting other cars, so that they could use this type of fuel. From 1 April 1984, another system was introduced, based on cut-outs from fuel cards, obtained by car owners at PZU (the national insurance company), based on the insurance payment receipt. For each months, one got 3 normal cards and 1 extra, which could be used if there was an additional fuel purchase option introduced for the specific month. The new standards were set to 12 liters (above 900 ccm), 8 liters (below 900 ccm), 3 liters (motorcycles) and 2 liters (mopeds). In the holiday periods from 1984 to 1986, they were increased to 15, 10, 5 and 3 liters respectively. Most affected were the owners of motorcycles and mopeds, who could make much less distance than the owners of cars. In both systems, there were benefits allowing to buy a whole quarterly allowance of fuel while being in another region. Problems were caused by the fact that the cards were valid quarterly and not in three-month system. It resulted in queues at gas stations at the end of each quarter.
> 
> In 1988, in parallel with the card system, sale of gas for commercial prices was introduced. Finally, the gasoline rationing was ceased on 1 January 1989. However, already at the beginning of spring, the lack of limits resulted in almost permanent shortage of fuel at the stations. The situation returned to normal only at the begininng of 1990s.
> 
> Of course, for the whole 1980s period, there also existed fuel black market and the gray zone. Fuel cards were countrefeited, the gas "leaked out" from state companies, the drivers also had deals with local gas station employees. Gas was also sold at markets and bazaars.
> 
> To limit the results of gas shortages on the market, research on increasing the fuel economy was carried out. Most popular devices, mentioned in the press, were Szott's carburetors and Kowalski's turbine. Neither of them came to series production – the first one due to the costs higher than the expected benefits, the latter due to faulty construction. Popular were also fuel saving rallies, aimed at finding driving techniques improving the fuel economy and such regulation of the cars. The Polish "etylina" was considered to be of very low quality. It was claimed that it's octane numbers were inflated much above the standards. The fuel for blamed for engine knocking. People travelling abroad claimed that the Polish gasoline is much worse than the one in Czechoslovakia, Romania or Hungary.
> 
> The rationing did not, however, cover diesel fuel, which could also be bought for nearly nothing at the black market – where it was cheaper than bought officially. It resulted in "fashion for diesel". Diesel cars were most popular from the foreign ones at car markets. Between 1982 and 1989 about 46,200 ones were brought to Poland. Companies specialized in importing foreign cars also prefered diesel cars. Unfortunately, the word "diesel", to most buyers, hid all the faults of the car bought. Many of the vehicles brought to Poland were in tragic state. The fashion for diesel was also exploited by scammers. One of examples was the Havit company, located in the Polonia hotel in Warsaw, which promised importing diesel engines suitable for all Polish cars (except for Fiat 126p) for 100–120 thousand złoty. In reality, Havit imported damaged and deficient units. When the customers tried to fight, the company disappeared. The scammed people never got their money back.


If I remember well, someone once asked, what were the reasons of such fuel shortages in Poland... So this is the cause.


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## Corvinus

Kpc21 said:


> A queue to a gas station in Poland in 1989.
> 
> The sign says "The last car which will be refuelled".
> 
> Why?
> 
> An article in Polish: https://histmag.org/Slalom-na-pustym-baku...-Rynek-motoryzacyjny-w-Polsce-lat-80.-cz.-4-8160/1
> 
> "A slalom with an empty tank" – The car market in Poland of the 1980s.


Pictures like these should be an imperative part of history classes in school, to prevent the forming of those delusional half-wits (in the West and elsewhere) who claim that "socialism is a better model", without having the slightest clue of what that model implied in practice. 

Then again, today's Greens would probably clap at what they see here, after all, it impedes and likely reduces individual motorized traffic ...


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## Wrocl'awianin

A4 Motorway upon Wrocław (August 1939), in that time called Breslau as it belonged to Germany.










Captured from below youtube video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4myWlCmAJFw


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## Kpc21

Corvinus said:


> Pictures like these should be an imperative part of history classes in school, to prevent the forming of those delusional half-wits (in the West and elsewhere) who claim that "socialism is a better model", without having the slightest clue of what that model implied in practice.


The question is how much it was the fault of the socialist system (or rather the centrally managed economy – Nordic countries were very socialist too but they were democracies and had free markets), how much of our separation from the West (the western sanctions), how much of our lack of independence, as we had to do everything what USSR enforced on us.

Maybe it wouldn't be impossible to centrally manage an economy so that it actually works well. Still, it's probably much easier with free market.

This system was weird in that it was much, much expensive to import anything from abroad, especially from the "western world", rather than to produce it locally. Even though people worked the same here and there...


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## Kpc21

Streets of Lodz in 1979 (not only streets, but streets too):






The jaw drops!


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## italystf

Corvinus said:


> Pictures like these should be an imperative part of history classes in school, to prevent the forming of those delusional half-wits (in the West and elsewhere) who claim that "socialism is a better model", without having the slightest clue of what that model implied in practice.
> 
> Then again, today's Greens would probably clap at what they see here, after all, it impedes and likely reduces individual motorized traffic ...


Reasonable environmentalist: let's make cars less polluting (possibly electric), introduce a more efficient PT system, build more cyclelanes, ban cars from historical cores of cities, etc... We could have less traffic and less polluting cars, but for many people would still be necessary.
"Nazi-environmentalist": cars are bad! The gov must ban them!
Who has more credibility?



Kpc21 said:


> The question is how much it was the fault of the socialist system (or rather the centrally managed economy – Nordic countries were very socialist too but they were democracies and had free markets), how much of our separation from the West (the western sanctions), how much of our lack of independence, as we had to do everything what USSR enforced on us.
> 
> Maybe it wouldn't be impossible to centrally manage an economy so that it actually works well. Still, it's probably much easier with free market.
> 
> This system was weird in that it was much, much expensive to import anything from abroad, especially from the "western world", rather than to produce it locally. Even though people worked the same here and there...


Nordic countries: social-democracy (welfare state but also free market and democracy)
Eastern bloc: socialism/communism (no free market and no individual freedom and no democracy)
Totally different models


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## Kpc21

Meanwhile China, from what I know, isn't very socialist (at least, the employees don't have many rights), it is totalitarian, it is communist and it has free market.

So those features may appear in really different combinations.

Social-democracy is still a form of socialism.

Poland never became fully communist, e.g. the government never managed to nationalise the farming. And farming has always been a very big part of our economy.

So when there were the times of shortages, it was very worth to have some relatives in the countryside.


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## Kanadzie

^^ I don't think "free market" really applies to the Chinese economic model
there are many companies owned or let's say, sponsored by the state that have all kinds of advantages (cheap credit, etc). Some of them are old communist enterprises that are useless and sustained in a zombie-state only to avoid layoffs (many such enterprises making steel and causing the steel price / dumping issues on the global market)
there are some private companies that exist but generally small-scale unless the principals are very close to the state (I think Huawei fits this definition well) and again get state benefits (look how hard the Chinese government is lobbying or fighting other countries on behalf of Huawei...)

of course also have to consider the heavy barriers to entry from foreign companies, like forced technology-transfer and forced joint-ventures...

It is somewhere close to the Nazi-ist corporatist policy, maybe borrowing a little from Lenin's "new economic policy" and a bit of African kleptocracy.


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## Kpc21

> Some of them are old communist enterprises that are useless and sustained in a zombie-state only to avoid layoffs (many such enterprises making steel and causing the steel price / dumping issues on the global market)


But this is a standard for, I think, any post-communist state, regardless of the current system. We have the same with many coal mines in Poland.

Huge local companies getting state benefits is also nothing unheard of in democratic states. It just makes sense geopolitically, especially for countries so big as China. South Korea used to do the same on a very large scale after the WW2. This way we now have giants such as Samsung, LG or Hyundai. It's always better for the country when the money made in this country stays in this country and it isn't carried out abroad.


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## Schule04

Kpc21 said:


> Streets of Lodz in 1979 (not only streets, but streets too):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The jaw drops!


Looks pretty similar to East Germany


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## italystf

Rome motorway ringroad had an at-grade intersection with Via Appia Antica (the ancient Appian Way) until 1999.
When the first part of ringroad opened in 1951, it had the single carriaggeway that could be crossed.
But when it was upgraded into a full motorway in 1965 (although the last part was opened in 1979), the Appian Way was split in two parts not connected each other. It was possible to enter and leave the two segments of the Appian Way from the two sides of the motorway, but it was not possible to cross the motorway median.

Junction between Via Appia Antica and the 2-lanes ringroad in the 1950s









Here a photo from 1970, with the ringroad upgraded to a motorway









1985









1992









In 1999, when that part of the ringroad was upgraded from 2x2 to 2x3, they built a tunnel under the ancient Roman road, that became connected again after 34 years, and no longer connected to the motorway.








Now Via Appia Antica is no longer used by car traffic, but preserved as a historical ruin. It's accessibile by pedestrians, bicycles, buses, and vehicles of people who have properties there.
http://pianetaanulare.blogspot.com/2015/09/gra-il-pianeta-anulare.html


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## ChrisZwolle

Very interesting!

I also find it interesting that Italy was at the forefront of highway construction with the first generation autostrada in the 1920s and 1930s, but it took a little while post-war to get the first true motorway standard roads built, which I believe wasn't until the late 1950s or early 1960s. 

It makes you wonder if there are controlled-access dual carriageways not on the autostrade network that predates the first 2x2 autostrada.


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## italystf

ChrisZwolle said:


> Very interesting!
> 
> I also find it interesting that Italy was at the forefront of highway construction with the first generation autostrada in the 1920s and 1930s, but it took a little while post-war to get the first true motorway standard roads built, which I believe wasn't until the late 1950s or early 1960s.
> 
> It makes you wonder if there are controlled-access dual carriageways not on the autostrade network that predates the first 2x2 autostrada.


The first real motorway (2x2) in Italy was the section Tortona-Serravalle on A7 opened on 26 July 1958, although, according to historical photos, it was quite primitive for modern standards: no hard shoulders and no crash barrier (just a grassy median). However, the first sections of A1 opened in late 1958 and 1959 already featured hard shoulders and crashbarriers. Crashbarriers in the median became mandatory on all motorways in 1967.

RA3 Florence-Siena, opened in 1964, is probably the best preserved example of 1960s motorway standards, as it had never been widened. It has 90km/h speed limit all the way.

After WWII we had serious problems with reconstruction and motorized traffic was scarce except maybe near larger cities, so motorways weren't a priority until the middle 1950s, when Italian economy was booming. The only exception was Rome's ringroad, whose works started already in 1948.

I'm not aware of any grade-separated dual carriaggeway opened before the first motorway opening in 1958. SS36 between Milan and Giussano opened in the late 1950s as a dual carriaggeway, but it had at-grade junctions with traffic lights.


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## italystf

Newspaper cover from 1965 showing an hypothetical bridge across Messina strait









https://www.peacelink.it/sociale/a/iz31600_i14407.html

I still remember when, according to Berlusconi, the bridge should have be completed in 2017. :lol:


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## italystf

Newspaper cover from 1964, showing the, now infamous, Morandi bridge in Genoa (that opened in 1967)









https://www.ventiperquattro.it/2018...re-nel-1964-in-riferimento-al-ponte-crollato/


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## Stuu

italystf said:


> RA3 Florence-Siena, opened in 1964, is probably the best preserved example of 1960s motorway standards, as it had never been widened. It has 90km/h speed limit all the way.


Why was that built so early? It's doesn't seem to be the most obvious connection to build - even in Tuscany I would have thought Florence-Livorno would have been more important


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## italystf

Stuu said:


> Why was that built so early? It's doesn't seem to be the most obvious connection to build - even in Tuscany I would have thought Florence-Livorno would have been more important


When they planned the route of the future A1 (Autostrada del Sole) back in the middle 1950s, there was the discussion whether the motorway had to go via Arezzo or via Siena. They eventually chose the route via Arezzo (some say because one of the most influent politician back then, Amintore Fanfani, was from Arezzo), but they also built the spur Florence-Siena to make people from Siena happy. Also the SS715 expressway between Siena and Bettolle (joining A1 towards Rome) was planned back then, although it was actually completed more recently.
A11 Florence-Pisa was already opened as half-profile in 1933 and it was duplicated in 1962.


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## Stuu

italystf said:


> When they planned the route of the future A1 (Autostrada del Sole) back in the middle 1950s, there was the discussion whether the motorway had to go via Arezzo or via Siena. They eventually chose the route via Arezzo (some say because one of the most influent politician back then, Amintore Fanfani, was from Arezzo), but they also built the spur Florence-Siena to make people from Siena happy. Also the SS715 expressway between Siena and Bettolle (joining A1 towards Rome) was planned back then, although it was actually completed more recently.
> A11 Florence-Pisa was already opened as half-profile in 1933 and it was duplicated in 1962.


Ok thanks for the detailed explanation - I looked up when the Fi-Pi-Li was built as I assumed that was older than the A11


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## Uppsala

^^

It is interesting that Italy did not get real motorways until 1958. That the roads that were called motorways (Autostrada) built before 1958 were not dual carriaggeway at all.

In Sweden, Italy is regarded as one of the motorways' homelands. There are two countries that Sweden regards as the motorways' homelands and one country is Germany and the other is Italy.

It is therefore not thought that in Italy they had a simpler standard before 1958 which was actually called Autostrada.

Therefore, it is particularly interesting to point out that Sweden was earlier than Italy with real motorways that really have dual carriaggeway.

Look at this picture. The picture was taken in 1953 when the motorway between Malmö and Lund was opened. This picture was thus taken before it was in Italy.

Otherwise, you can observe left-hand traffic. It was on September 3, 1967, that Sweden switched to right-hand traffic, with the aim of integrating Swedish roads with the rest of Europe.

But already when the picture was taken, there were plans to expand motorways from Malmö to both Stockholm, Uppsala and Gothenburg, which eventually became. And there were also plans for a motorway bridge to Denmark, which also exists today.

So already when the picture was taken there were ambitious motorway plans for Sweden


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## italystf

^^ The neutrality of Sweden during WWII helped a lot, probably.

Italy lost 20 years in road network developement. Almost no road construction happened between 1935 and 1955. Firstly we had a severe economical crisis after the Ethiopian was of 1935-36, then the highly destructive WWII, and finally the long reconstruction and economical recovery process.
Only in the middle 1950s when reconstruction was more or less completed, Italian economy was booming, and cars became available to the middle class, road construction became a priority.
For that reason, even some poorer countries like Portugal, Brazil, Argentina, and Venezuela started to build motorways before us.


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## ChrisZwolle

Pretty much all of Europe didn't started motorway construction after the war until the early 1950s. There were some kilometers opened here and there prior to ~1952, mostly based on stalled projects. 

The focus at that time was rebuilding, in particular the many destroyed bridges. Traffic volumes were very low in the first post-war years anyway.

The Netherlands opened a 7 kilometer section of A2 south of Utrecht in 1948, but it was already under construction since the 1930s (and partially opened with one carriageway before the war started). They also opened a 1 kilometer extension of A12 east of Utrecht in 1947. It makes you wonder if that was the first post-war motorway opening in Europe.


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## italystf

The Free Territory of Trieste built the Sistiana-Trieste highway in 1947-48. It had similar standards of 1920s-30s "autostrade". It survived almost untouched until the late 1980s, when part of it was incorporated into the new RA13 motorway. It was build mostly for defensive reasons, as an invasion by USSR-backed Yugoslavia was very likely back then. It was very wide (here you can see a part still left), because it could be used also as an airstrip.

In Yugoslavia the first carriaggeway of the Belgrade-Zagreb highway was opened in 1950 and in 1958 it was extended to Ljubljana.


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## italystf

The "Autostrada Napoli-Pompei", opened in 1931, was the only pre-war "autostrada" built in southern Italy.










In 1961 it was duplicated and together with the newly build 4-lanes sections Pompei-Salerno, it became part of A3 Napoli-Salerno.


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## marcobruls

https://www.vam.ac.uk/commissions/european-motorways-1920-2020/


----------



## intersezioni

Here you can see archive images of the construction of the A1 MILANO - NAPOLI.
You can select other historical photos of other Italian motorways by selecting the section in the "TOPIC" item at the top left:
https://www.autostrade.it/en/comuni...items/media/playlist/storico-a1-Milano-Napoli


A1 MILANO-NAPOLI , Autostrada del sole. VIDEO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaNR-MKGvic&t=150s 


MILANO FIRENZE


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## Uppsala

^^
Very nice movie! 

Here is one from 1953 in Sweden. It shows how motorways were built in Sweden around 1950.

Notice left-hand traffic, it was not until 1967 that Sweden switched to right-hand traffic to integrate with the rest of Europe.

It is typical of Sweden during the 1950s and shows the optimism of building even more motorways


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## Uppsala

When was the European motorway symbol introduced? And which country was first?

It was introduced in Sweden in 1961. This was actually before, for example, Germany. Look at the link here and scroll down to page number 6

http://mrw1.se/pdf_filer/SFS1961.pd...lwdElcg18nv0zJpuNRQPm7lslZxhGVK6_cE7mnk1MxpK0

Here you can see that the motorway sign was introduced in Sweden as early as 1961.

Was Sweden first with this sign? Or was anyone else before? Could it be that the motorway sign is Swedish from the beginning?


----------



## Penn's Woods

Uppsala said:


> When was the European motorway symbol introduced? And which country was first?
> 
> It was introduced in Sweden in 1961. This was actually before, for example, Germany. Look at the link here and scroll down to page number 6
> 
> http://mrw1.se/pdf_filer/SFS1961.pd...lwdElcg18nv0zJpuNRQPm7lslZxhGVK6_cE7mnk1MxpK0
> 
> Here you can see that the motorway sign was introduced in Sweden as early as 1961.
> 
> Was Sweden first with this sign? Or was anyone else before? Could it be that the motorway sign is Swedish from the beginning?




There’s a Top Gear segment on the woman who supposedly designed Britain’s highway signs. I think her name’s Margaret Calvert. James May interviews her and they drive around a bit.... In it, there’s some old footage of early motorways and signage. I believe you can see a motorway symbol on one of the signs, although it’s been years since I saw this. So how old would that be?


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## riiga

I think the UK was the first ones to use it in the 1950s even.

This shows the old symbol used in Sweden from sometime after the introduction of motorways in 1953 until the current one replaced it in 1961. The pictures are from July 1961 and December 1958 respectively according to the source.









(source)









(source)


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## legolego

*A6 TORINO-SAVONA*

a "badly famous" story, about highway A6 Torino-SAvona _.
The old configuration of the highway, for many years, was only one carriageway with three line section: one Directed to TORINO, one directed to SAVONA, and the middle one for overtaking of both direction ! So people named that route "the death's highway".

Here the chronicle


*The history of Torino Savona SpA*

*In the early 1950s*, the SPASIS (Società per Azioni Sviluppo Iniziative Stradali) road initiatives development company drew up preliminary plans for a motorway to link Turin with the Ligurian coast.

On 18 April 1956, ANAS granted approval to build the Savona-Ceva motorway section.

*On 5 June 1956 the “Autostrada Ceva Savona S.p.A.” motorway company was set up*, with shareholders FIAT, Istituto San Paolo and Cassa di Risparmio di Torino, Pirelli, Michelin, UNICEM, Cokitalia, City and Province of Turin, Unione Industriale and Turin-Milan.

On 31 October 1962, a convention was drawn up with ANAS (the second) for the Ceva-Fossano section.

In the spring of 1968, shortly before the concession was formalised with ANAS (the third in order of time) for the construction and operation of the Fossano-Turin section, the company took on its new and final name of “Autostrada Torino Savona S.p.A.”.

On 21 December 1972 the new convention was signed with ANAS (summarising and replacing the three previous ones), which became operational in October 1973.

On 31 December 1980, FIAT transferred to FITUR S.p.A. (a subsidiary company) its entire shareholding. FIAT’s exit came shortly before the event which, a short time later, would mark a turning point in the history of the Turin-Savona motorway.

On 12 August 1982, article 11 of Italian Law 531/82, “Ten-year roads and motorway reorganisation plan”, authorised the “Autostrade” company, the large company of the IRI group, to buy out the shares in the Turin-Savona motorway at a price of 50% of their face value.

On 31 December 1982, FITUR S.p.A. transferred its entire holding to SADIP S.p.A.(Società Azionaria di Partecipazioni), and between January and February 1983, all share holdings were transferred to “Autostrade S.p.A.”, with the important exception of the Turin-Milan motorway, and of the City of Turin, whose minority holding exists to this day.

With the historic core of shareholders dissolved, it now came to the Autostrade company to put into place the most appropriate strategies to turn around the Turin-Savona motorway.

*Between 1983 and 1987*, while the required capital adjustments were being prepared, ANAS and the public bodies concerned – the Region of Piedmont, the Region of Liguria, the Government Cultural and Environmental Assets Protection Department – *were performing the studies necessary to finalise the plans for doubling up the entire motorway.*

On 27 January 1988, the new agreement was signed with ANAS, prepared in the form of an “Additional act“ to the convention of 1972.
The new agreement extended the concession from 2007 to 2018, and specified that state financial support would be 68% of the investment necessary to construct the second carriageway and for the improvement works to the existing infrastructure, with the shareholder Autostrade covering the rest.

The designs for the work were drawn up by SPEA.

Completion of this doubling up work was set as an absolute priority for the Turin-Savona motorway.

Italian Law 121/89 on the 1990 World Cup, coordinated with Italian Law 373/88 on the “Colombo ’92″ expo to celebrate the 500th anniversary of the discovery of America, had introduced particular provisions for the performance of public works connected with these events.
The Turin-Savona motorway took advantage of this to obtain consent from ANAS for the doubling up of lot 1, south of the Carmagnola barrier, where there had been for some time a section of carriageway parallel to the motorway, which FIAT had used as a test track for its vehicles.

In 1991, the motorway obtained this test track from FIAT.

On 9 March 2000, the Ministry of the Treasury, which through the IRI group held all the Autostrade shares, transferred its controlling share to the private group which holds it to this day, while the rest of the shares were placed on the stock market.

Nothing had changed for the Turin-Savona share structure, but the privatisation of the virtually sole shareholder required, and continues to do so, involvement in new development strategies.

In spring of the same year, the Turin-Savona motorway came out of its historic isolation from the Italian motorway network, by the connection at Savona with the motorways of the Ligurian coast.
Still in spring of 2000, definitive approval was given to the new concession agreement, already signed with ANAS in December 1999, replacing all previous agreements.
A new financial plan, relating to extension of the concession from 2018 to 2038, now allows the Turin-Savona motorway to implement all its development plans, from concluding the doubling up work to the extensive series of investments dedicated to safety, improvement and adaptation of the many sections of “historical” carriageway, and to the installation of modern and efficient telecommunications installations.

*Finally, on 12 November 2001*, the goal which had been pursued by the motorway with such determination since the 1970s was reached: completion of the doubling up work._


----------



## legolego

^^

here some pictures :



















[Inventare gli spostamenti - 50TOSV]


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## Uppsala

Uppsala said:


> When was the European motorway symbol introduced? And which country was first?
> 
> It was introduced in Sweden in 1961. This was actually before, for example, Germany. Look at the link here and scroll down to page number 6
> 
> http://mrw1.se/pdf_filer/SFS1961.pd...lwdElcg18nv0zJpuNRQPm7lslZxhGVK6_cE7mnk1MxpK0





Penn's Woods said:


> There’s a Top Gear segment on the woman who supposedly designed Britain’s highway signs. I think her name’s Margaret Calvert. James May interviews her and they drive around a bit.... In it, there’s some old footage of early motorways and signage. I believe you can see a motorway symbol on one of the signs, although it’s been years since I saw this. So how old would that be?





riiga said:


> I think the UK was the first ones to use it in the 1950s even.
> 
> This shows the old symbol used in Sweden from sometime after the introduction of motorways in 1953 until the current one replaced it in 1961. The pictures are from July 1961 and December 1958 respectively according to the source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (source)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (source)




It is true that the round sign with a car was used as a symbol for motorway before the European standard symbol came to Sweden in 1961. But Sweden must have been very early with the European standard symbol for motorway? And Sweden was several years ahead of Germany with it.

Would the UK have been the first to introduce the European motorway symbol? I know it was NOT Germany. It took quite a few years before it came to Germany. Here I know that both the UK and Sweden were way ahead of Germany.

But which country was the first? I know Margaret Calvert designed a lot of motorway signs. And I know that her principles for motorway signage were then followed throughout Europe over time.

But what about the European motorway symbol itself? Was it Margaret Calvert who also created it? So did the UK use the motorway symbol before 1961?

So which country was first? And who did it? If the UK was first it should be Margaret Calvert who created it. If it was Sweden, it should be Kåge Gustafson who made the sign.

https://www.expressen.se/motor/herr-garmans-skapare-ur-tiden/

Sweden was very early in 1961 with the sign. But was anyone before?

Could it be Italy? They have gigantic large signs with the motorway symbol. But what year did it come to Italy?

Anyone know more?


----------



## Proof Sheet

legolego said:


> a "badly famous" story, about highway A6 Torino-SAvona _.
> The old configuration of the highway, for many years, was only one carriageway with three line section: one Directed to TORINO, one directed to SAVONA, and the middle one for overtaking of both direction ! So people named that route "the death's highway".
> _


_

I drove on the A6 in 2016 and got a speeding ticket sent to me in the post about two months later via the hire car company.

This is a crazy place.

https://goo.gl/maps/UYeUebpfnhf4mNdZ6

in terms of tunnels, bridges and the two directions of traffic being many km apart._


----------



## Penn's Woods

Uppsala said:


> It is true that the round sign with a car was used as a symbol for motorway before the European standard symbol came to Sweden in 1961. But Sweden must have been very early with the European standard symbol for motorway? And Sweden was several years ahead of Germany with it.
> 
> 
> 
> Would the UK have been the first to introduce the European motorway symbol? I know it was NOT Germany. It took quite a few years before it came to Germany. Here I know that both the UK and Sweden were way ahead of Germany.
> 
> 
> 
> But which country was the first? I know Margaret Calvert designed a lot of motorway signs. And I know that her principles for motorway signage were then followed throughout Europe over time.
> 
> 
> 
> But what about the European motorway symbol itself? Was it Margaret Calvert who also created it? So did the UK use the motorway symbol before 1961?
> 
> 
> 
> So which country was first? And who did it? If the UK was first it should be Margaret Calvert who created it. If it was Sweden, it should be Kåge Gustafson who made the sign.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.expressen.se/motor/herr-garmans-skapare-ur-tiden/
> 
> 
> 
> Sweden was very early in 1961 with the sign. But was anyone before?
> 
> 
> 
> Could it be Italy? They have gigantic large signs with the motorway symbol. But what year did it come to Italy?
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone know more?




Found a bit of history. The U.K. used a completely different motorway symbol in the early days. It looks as if they switched to the Continental symbol in the late 60s. (That’s in part two; the link below is to part one.)


https://showmeasign.online/2018/12/21/the-evolution-of-motorway-signs-part-one/amp/


----------



## Uppsala

Penn's Woods said:


> Found a bit of history. The U.K. used a completely different motorway symbol in the early days. It looks as if they switched to the Continental symbol in the late 60s. (That’s in part two; the link below is to part one.)
> 
> 
> https://showmeasign.online/2018/12/21/the-evolution-of-motorway-signs-part-one/amp/



Interesting! It seems that the European motorway symbol was introduced in the UK around 1964-1965.

This means that the UK was earlier than Germany with this symbol.

But still Sweden is then the earliest I have found, when Sweden has proven to introduce the European motorway symbol as early as 1961.

So could any other country have been before Sweden?

When was the symbol introduced in Italy?

It seems that this symbol comes either from Sweden or Italy.


----------



## italystf

Uppsala said:


> When was the symbol introduced in Italy?


1969


----------



## Penn's Woods

Uppsala said:


> Interesting! It seems that the European motorway symbol was introduced in the UK around 1964-1965.
> 
> This means that the UK was earlier than Germany with this symbol.
> 
> But still Sweden is then the earliest I have found, when Sweden has proven to introduce the European motorway symbol as early as 1961.
> 
> So could any other country have been before Sweden?
> 
> When was the symbol introduced in Italy?
> 
> It seems that this symbol comes either from Sweden or Italy.


Except that the article seems to suggest the symbol was already standard when Britain rejected it in 1959. ("One thing that was unique to the Preston Bypass was the motorway symbol chosen by the then Ministry of Transport. For reasons known only to them, they had taken an immediate and forceful dislike to the European conventional motorway symbol.") Did it exist on paper, in the Vienna Convention or somewhere, without actually being in use yet?


----------



## Uppsala

Penn's Woods said:


> Except that the article seems to suggest the symbol was already standard when Britain rejected it in 1959. ("One thing that was unique to the Preston Bypass was the motorway symbol chosen by the then Ministry of Transport. For reasons known only to them, they had taken an immediate and forceful dislike to the European conventional motorway symbol.") Did it exist on paper, in the Vienna Convention or somewhere, without actually being in use yet?



It's interesting! So the motorway sign could have been in a convention for a few years before it existed in reality?

But who could have drawn the proposal that must have been published in a convention?

And which country was first?

I have now found the following years:

Sweden 1961
The UK 1965
Germany 1966
Italy 1969

So far it looks like Sweden was the first.

So what years were it introduced in the Netherlands, Belgium, France and Switzerland?

Or was Sweden really first with the European motorway sign?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It was introduced in the Netherlands in the 1966 version of the highway code (RVV 1966). The 1950 version did not have it.


----------



## Kpc21

I checked the Polish historical highway code. The motorway sign wasn't in the one from 1962: http://prawo.sejm.gov.pl/isap.nsf/download.xsp/WDU19620610295/O/D19620295.pdf but it was in one from 1968: http://prawo.sejm.gov.pl/isap.nsf/download.xsp/WDU19680270183/O/D19680183.pdf








vs.


----------



## SRC_100

For now:
Sweden 1961
The UK 1965
Germany & Netherlands 1966
Poland 1968
Italy 1969

What`s about Belgium, France, Spain, Czechoslovakia, Swiss, Austria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, DDR etc.?


----------



## Penn's Woods

SRC_100 said:


> For now:
> Sweden 1961
> The UK 1965
> Germany & Netherlands 1966
> Poland 1968
> Italy 1969
> 
> What`s about Belgium, France, Spain, Czechoslovakia, Swiss, Austria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, DDR etc.?




At any rate, this English site’s describing it (from the point of view of 2019) as having been “conventional” in the late 50s seems premature....


----------



## devo

From the Norwegian Wikipedia page on motorways it states that when our first opened on July 13th, 1962, a big sign explaining all restrictions was put at either end "... because Norway had yet to adopt clear international signs that tells the driver when a motorway starts." (paraphrased from the newspaper Verdens Gang reporting on the opening day). 

I would belive it was a sign similar to the UK sign before they adopted the motorway sign.
Now, this only gives two clues: That there was an international sign at this time, which has been mentioned already, but this could very well have been the "car" sign – not the motorway sign, the article does not specify. Norways first proper motorway (5 km+) opened in 1964 and there is no mention in this article about the signage – we could possibly assume that Norway had adopted the motorway sign by then, especially since our neighbor Sweden had been using it for three years already.

So perhaps one could be tempted to add "Norway 1964" to the list. 

Source (in Norwegian): https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norges_motorveier


----------



## riiga

Looking at the Swedish Wikipedia it says



> Under 1950-talet fanns inte motorvägsmärket alls. Den 1 december 1957 infördes en provisorisk skyltning för fyrfilig och tvåfilig motorväg. (Begreppet motortrafikled infördes i samband med högertrafikomläggningen). Som provisorisk skyltning användes en rund skylt med en bil. Den påminde om skylten för motortrafikled men var rund i formen istället. Den kunde betraktas som ett påbudsmärke som skulle visa att endast motorfordon var tillåtna på vägen.


and translated



> During the 1950s there was no motorway symbol at all. On the 1st of December 1957 temporary signage was introduced for four-lane and two-lane motorway (The distinction between motorway and motortrafikled wasn't introduced until the driving side changeover). The temporary signage consisted of a round sign with a car. It's very similar to the motortrafikled sign except round instead. The round sign was grouped with mandatory signage and indicated only motor vehicles were allowed.


(source)

This fits well with what we've found so far and the date of the photographs I linked.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The 1950 'model 39' sign for an 'autoweg' in the Netherlands:










The 1966 sign 57a for motorways:


----------



## sbondorf

SRC_100 said:


> For now:
> Sweden 1961
> The UK 1965
> Germany & Netherlands 1966
> Poland 1968
> Italy 1969
> 
> What`s about Belgium, France, Spain, Czechoslovakia, Swiss, Austria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, DDR etc.?




In Denmark a regulation for motorway signs, including images of the common motorway sign, was introduced in 1962 (link: https://www.vejhistorie.dk/wp-conte...ning-med-færdselstavler-på-motorveje-1962.pdf).

This was 6 years after the first motorway opened in DK - I don’t know whether the motorway sign was used before 1962.

The regulation mentioned here is an amendment to the general regulation dated 1955.


----------



## ea1969

Stavros86 said:


> The motorway symbol was officially introduced on July 6, 1974, as part of Greek state's efforts to be in accordance with the diagrams introduced in the Convention on Road Signs and Signals, in 1968... The new sign designs gradually started to appear on public roads around '75-'76, and they were officially included in the highway code of 1977


Yes, this is the case. The signs introduced in 1974 started appearing on roads in 1976. Motorway signs appeared for the first time in the late 80's on a small A1 section near Thiva. They were blue. The first green ones were erected on the A7 in 1992 and were an ad-hoc effort (the style of the symbol) along with the erected direction signs as at there were no guidelines for motorway signing yet.

Before this, one could see expressway signs on today's A1 north of Katerini, today's A2 between the A1 and Thessaloniki, the EO2 on a small section around today's A1 and today's A8 between Korinthos and Patra.


----------



## Eulanthe

Uppsala said:


> So far, we are missing Luxembourg and Hungary. Is it impossible to find documents in these two countries?


What about the Soviet Union and Finland?


----------



## italystf

Verona, 1943. Road signs to Trento and Brescia are visible.









https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Assemblea_nazionale_del_Partito_Fascista_Repubblicano.jpg


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## Autobahn-mann

^^ The same place today: https://www.google.it/maps/@45.4394...ydAt5WPIQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=it&authuser=0


----------



## Kpc21

Something up to date:










ENTRY FORBIDDEN

TO WROCŁAW . TO PEOPLE
NOT VACCINATED AGAINST SMALLPOX

In 1963 there was a smallpox epidemic in Wrocław. The city got isolated but the disease anyway got outside.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Uppsala said:


> And for now:
> 1959 - France
> 1960 - Austria
> 1961 - Sweden
> 1962 - Denmark
> 1963 - Switzerland
> 1965 - The UK
> 1966 - (West)Germany & Netherlands
> 1967 - Norway
> 1968 - Italy & Poland & Portugal
> 1969 - Spain
> 1970 - Yugoslavia
> 1971 - Czechoslovakia & DDR
> 1974 - Greece
> 1975 - Belgium
> 
> So far, we are missing Luxembourg and Hungary. Is it impossible to find documents in these two countries?


Spain introduced it 2 years earlier than we thought, in 1967 with the Recomendaciones para el proyecto de enlaces (page 97).


----------



## Uppsala

And for now:
1959 - France
1960 - Austria
1961 - Sweden
1962 - Denmark
1963 - Switzerland
1965 - The UK
1966 - (West)Germany & Netherlands
1967 - Norway & Spain
1968 - Italy & Poland & Portugal
1970 - Yugoslavia
1971 - Czechoslovakia & DDR
1974 - Greece
1975 - Belgium

We still missing Luxembourg and Hungary.

We also missing Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey


----------



## italystf

Road signs in Cavaglià, Piedmont region, Italy in 1942


----------



## italystf

A4 Milan-Turin (near Casaleggio/Mosezzo), 26 May 1950


----------



## Kpc21

Again an up-to-date thing...

"At the border:"







The video has some audio issues – but it shows the struggles of the truck drivers at the Polish-German borders in 1992. They were similar to those from the last week (which even included accidents caused by the tiredness of the drivers waiting in the queue for so long).

According to the video, in 1992, the situation got much worse after private carriers got allowed to carry goods in international traffic (it seems that earlier it was allowed only for the state-owned PKS). In addition, Świecko was the only border crossing on the western Polish border which could be used by the drivers from ex-USSR.


----------



## Autobahn-mann

italystf said:


> Road signs in Cavaglià, Piedmont region, Italy in 1942





italystf said:


> A4 Milan-Turin (near Casaleggio/Mosezzo), 26 May 1950


Seems that there are other members of the italian Facebook groups here


----------



## Kpc21

Another Polish border in 1992 – this one still has full checks on a daily basis:







Poland – Ukraine in Hrebenne/Rava Ruska.

The background music is the melody of an old Polish song about Lviv (Lwów back then), from 1939.

Quite many old cars from the East – FSO Polonez, Fiat 125p, Fiat 126p, the bus the interior of which is shown during a passport check is Autosan H9 belonging to a local PKS (local transportation company), the next one is Jelcz PR110D belonging to Orbis, the oldest Polish travel agency, founded back in 1920 - which unfortunately went bankrupt in 2010.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Moldova has introduced the motorway sign in 2017: https://gov.md/sites/default/files/document/attachments/intr12_104.pdf (page 16)

Sign 5.2 Autostradă / Автомагистраль.










However I don't think it has been used in the field. I believe M3 from Chişinău to Cimișlia has expressway status (sign 5.4)

It's also unclear what speed limit would apply on motorways. Expressways have a 110 km/h speed limit.


----------



## Kpc21

Would it mean that we have another country after Germany which has no speed limit on motorways (and even though it doesn't have ones, it takes them into account in their legal system)?


----------



## Corvinus

^^ Unfortunately, no. This question came up for the Finnish border speed limits information sign, only indicating two speed limits: for built-up and outside build-up areas. They definitely have motorways, and a Finnish forumer wrote it's "crystal clear" that the default speed limit on motorways is then 80 km/h too. 
In practice, there will be higher signposted speed limits on the motorway stretches, especially in Summer.


----------



## italystf

Also Iceland has no a legal definition of motorway. There is only a short section of motorway near Reykyavik, but it has 90 km/h speed limit because legally is like any rural paved road.


----------



## Uppsala

italystf said:


> Also Iceland has no a legal definition of motorway. There is only a short section of motorway near Reykyavik, but it has 90 km/h speed limit because legally is like any rural paved road.



Do they really have motorway sign in Iceland now? How do they look like?


----------



## italystf

Uppsala said:


> Do they really have motorway sign in Iceland now? How do they look like?


There is no motoway signage because officially it isn't a motorway, but de facto is.


----------



## Exethalion

Ichinohashi Junction of Tokyo C1 and Expressway 2 in 1965, looks like just before this segment opened. The modern view is quite different.


----------



## verreme

Okay so I found this videos of 1978 Köln:













There are more of them in the same 
channel just in case someone is curious


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Corvinus said:


> ^^ As you've mentioned it elsewhere - along with this graph - passenger car production numbers in the USSR reached one million in 1974, while the U.S. got there in 1916. Fairly striking in comparison, even for those familiar with the inherent weaknesses of socialist/planned economies.


It's also interesting to note that the Soviet Union had a larger population than the United States. The U.S. didn't surpass the peak Soviet population until after 2000. The Soviet Union almost had 40 million people more than the U.S. in 1970.


----------



## Grotlaufen

On this date sixty years ago, December 13th 1960, was the date when the first part of _Vätterleden _as motorway(E4 Huskvarna - Vättersmålen/Ölmstad) opened for traffic in Sweden. 

Today _Jönköpings läns museum_ or the city and county museum of Jönköping, released a film showing video clips which were taken by one of the engineers showing the construction, and later donated by his grandson:







The 80 km motorway between southern Jönköping and Ödeshög (a junction for traffic going from southern Sweden to Örebro/Bergslagen or Linköping/Stockholm) were built in several stages between 1958 - 1972. North of Jönköping/Huskvarna towards Gränna the authorities decided to build the motorway next to the lake Vättern as a corniche whereas the old route went inland through Kaxholmen - Ölmstad. The difference in height between the lake and the hills are up to 250 meters (90 <> 340 meters above the sea level). 


From 03.45- 04.10 shows the different routes which were under consideration for a national motorway network. From 14.30 - shows construction clips, land-filling next to the lake, rock blasting etc.


----------



## Attus

Hungary, national road 1 (Budapest - Vienna) in 1940.

















Photos


Fortepan is a copyright-free and community-based photo archive with over 100,000 photographs available for anyone to browse and download in high-resolution, free of charge.




fortepan.hu


----------



## bogdymol

A1 motorway at the entrance in Bucharest, Romania. Picture taken sometime between 1995 and 1998. The first car seems to have Austrian license plates. Same location on Google Street View.










There are many interesting historical images with Romanian roads on a Romanian infrastructure forum.


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## italystf

At-grade junction between Rome's ringroad and Via Tiburtina in 1962








Same place now:








Google Maps


Trova attività commerciali locali, visualizza mappe e trova indicazioni stradali in Google Maps.




www.google.com


----------



## Autobahn-mann

^^ Note that the ringroad have to give the right-of-way to the State Road.


----------



## PovilD

italystf said:


> At-grade junction between Rome's ringroad and Via Tiburtina in 1962
> View attachment 985136
> 
> Same place now:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google Maps
> 
> 
> Trova attività commerciali locali, visualizza mappe e trova indicazioni stradali in Google Maps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


My mom said she liked markings where directions are depicted on road surface when she was on the trip to Italy. Giving is not that widespread in Europe, or Italy alone, I tend to be more skeptical. If practice is really good, I think it should be more widespread.

On the other hand it could be not that comfortable for car. It's more comfortable for those who stand from higher level (truck driver or bus passenger). It may have created impression that these markings are very convenient.


----------



## g.spinoza

PovilD said:


> My mom said she liked markings where directions are depicted on road surface when she was on the trip to Italy. Giving is not that widespread in Europe, or Italy alone, I tend to be more skeptical. If practice is really good, I think it should be more widespread.


Well, it's not that widespread in non-motorway roads in Italy: AAMOF I don't remember any in normal roads.

I don't find them so useful: they wear rapidly, and usually if the destination's name is long it is separated in two rows, to be read in sequence. So "Castiglione della Pescaia" may be written as:
Pescaia
Della
Castiglione

Which is ridiculous.
Something like this:


----------



## DanielFigFoz

It's very common in the UK on the approach to junctions, frequently with abbreviations (but not on a motorway mainline like in Italy). If the destination doesn't fit on the lane it will be shortened, Warwick will become W'wick for example. Road numbers are also often painted in the same way, like A6 (N) for the northbound A6. They can be useful if traffic is flowing but when it's busy they aren't of much use. I imagine that they aren't very useful if you aren't at least vaguely familiar with local geography.

Here's an example with abbreviations for Coventry, Warwick, Cirencester and Stratford-upon-Avon.


----------



## czerwony_bo_szybszy

g.spinoza said:


> Well, it's not that widespread in non-motorway roads in Italy: AAMOF I don't remember any in normal roads.
> 
> I don't find them so useful: they wear rapidly, and usually if the destination's name is long it is separated in two rows, to be read in sequence. So "Castiglione della Pescaia" may be written as:
> Pescaia
> Della
> Castiglione
> 
> Which is ridiculous.


this particular solution is a bit ridiculous but still better than nothing
I like the way it's done in Bratislava on D1/D2 interchange, with country code marker on each lane, it's cheap, simple and useful, just as ie digital indicators of time remaining until green light on crossroads in cities which is widespread in Balkans and I love this feature








Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.pl


----------



## joza_gulikoza

Tourist promo video about road travel through Yugoslavia (taking a trip on "brotherhood and unity" highway). Plenty of highway/road scenery from those times. I think video is from 1988. Language is "serbo-croat", english subtitles. Enjoy watching 

All rights belong to their respective owners (YT uploader).


----------



## kostas97

joza_gulikoza said:


> Tourist promo video about road travel through Yugoslavia (taking a trip on "brotherhood and unity" highway). Plenty of highway/road scenery from those times. I think video is from 1988. Language is "serbo-croat", english subtitles. Enjoy watching
> 
> All rights belong to their respective owners (YT uploader).


Wow, i thought that there woud be Cyrillic script everywhere by then (or at least together with Latin in Croatia or Slovenia), however, the old Yugoslavia seems great, just the way it is right now (except for the fact that a lot of these places are way better accessible right now, with newer infrastructure and all that). The ex-Yugoslavia looks interesting, with a ton of different places to see and explore.
By the way, where is Montenegro???


----------



## Autobahn-mann

Interesting, on the motorway, the mixed use of yugoslav-proper and italian road signs styles...


----------



## Eulanthe

kostas97 said:


> Wow, i thought that there woud be Cyrillic script everywhere by then (or at least together with Latin in Croatia or Slovenia), however, the old Yugoslavia seems great, just the way it is right now (except for the fact that a lot of these places are way better accessible right now, with newer infrastructure and all that). The ex-Yugoslavia looks interesting, with a ton of different places to see and explore.
> By the way, where is Montenegro???


Cyrillic (in Serbia and Macedonia) tended only to be used on local signs, whereas main roads used signs in Latin as it made navigation easier. The Highway of Brotherhood and Unity was a very, very important transit route, so there was no sense in using Cyrillic on the signs. 

It was never used in Slovenia or Croatia, as Slovenian and the western version of Serbo-Croat didn't use it. 

As for Montenegro on this video - the highway didn't go into Montenegro, so it's not featured.


----------



## Skorpija1979

how long is the motorway network in the area of the former Yugoslavia today? Looking for information on this!


----------



## BL2

HR 1306
SRB 1138
SLO 619
MKD 280
BiH 219
-------------
3562


----------



## brane2208

First yugoslavian autostrada(1939), from Belgrade to Avala mountain


----------



## MarkSK

New road under construction from Bratislava to Devín, 1949:








(source)

Signpost between Prešov and Košice in adverse winter weather, 1963:









(source)

Based on distances I think it was located around here.

First grade-separated junction in Bratislava under construction, 1965:








(source)

Same place today:
Google Maps


----------



## The Wild Boy

Joining this thread!






It's not really a photo, but you can see some of the motorways in my country during Socialist Yugoslavia.

More accurately it shows the Interchange Miladinovci (Which at that time was only partially finished. Skopje bypass was in the plans, but it was only done in 2008), you can see some of the motorway right after that Interchange and you can see the Interchange after the Petrovec Toll booths. That interchange still exists today as it was originally planned, and it might still even have the same steel bars, unless they were ever changed, or that section renovated. The motorway though the airport is just 4 lanes without a hard shoulder. That is due to change in the coming years tho.

You can also see some of the fast roads, back then they were still referred as motorways (or just highways), and the first such in the entire Yugoslavia was finished in the 50's and it was the highway from Belgrade to Zagreb. Most of these fast roads (including the one to the Serbian border) were upgraded to motorway standards.

Another one, also built sometime in the 80's is the Prilep - Bitola fast road. In the coming years that will too be converted into a full motorway. Bitola - Resen is a 1+2 road, it's not really a fast road as it has some sharper curves and a 70 km/h speed limit, but it does surprisingly have grade - separated interchanges. They are also sometimes from the 80's when that road was built. I'm assuming they made it 1+2 because of the harder terrain there (runs between mountains) and that's why it has sharper curves. Regardless of what, if that road even gets upgraded to bring it to some better express road standards, it will need plenty of curve realignments.









As you can see on the image above, they had in the plans to make (assuming) such a fast road - bypass of Resen as well, but it never happened. Why, i don't know.










It could be something like this. It is in the plans of the current government to make a bypass of Resen, but the chances of it happening aren't that high.




















This road from Bitola to Resen and the whole bypass of Resen matter, as they provide a secondary connection to Ohrid, a popular tourist destination and they also provide a secondary connection to Albania (hence why there's some more trucks here as well), and if they ever build the border crossing to Greece it could also start drawing in some more vehicles. The main streets though Resen already have war more traffic.

For more stuff regarding this project, i will post in the appropriate thread, and next time i will draw this bypass on Google My Maps, since i have learnt to use that.

Moving on, the other fast roads were essentially along the existing Corridor 10, A1 motorway, the old roads. Some of them had an 80 km/h speed limit, grade separated interchanges, but not all of them.
The motorway from Gevgelija (Smokvica) towards the Greek border was actually a fast road before it got turned into a motorway. This is why prior to the renovation works (part of finishing the motorway from Demir Kapija to Gevgelija) one section of the motorway was just 2 lanes without hard shoulder. It's a similar story for the motorway from the interchange Miladinovci to Kumanovo, where one side is 2 lanes but without a hard shoulder. That section was renovated in i think 2015, but they did not add a hard shoulder.
The section from Katlanovo to the Petrovec toll booths was too 2 lanes 1 way without hard shoulder, and it's soon due to be completed (renovation & expansion works to add a hard shoulder).

This just explains that back then in Yugoslavia, they did not convert every fast road into a proper motorway connection. Where they could they did, where they couldn't (or didn't want to) they just reused the old existing road and converted it into 1 way without expanding it.

When the motorway from Veles to Katlanovo was finished, sometime between 1984 to 1986, it was only finished as a half profile motorway, and the existing road (built in the 60's by the Jugoslav People's Army) from Katlanovo to Veles running along the gorge was just converted into 1 way 2 lanes. It's a very dangerous road, as it runs along cliffs, hills, it has sharp curves and the speeds usually go as low as 50 km/h. The motorway from Veles to Katlanovo was projected for an expansion. As you can notice from the streetview images on many of the overpasses they did leave space for a second segment. But i am assuming due to funding issues that was never realized. We will see if any government in the future decides to finish that section.

In the 80's also the existing road towards Ohrid was renovated, being brought up to 1+2 standards, and the section after the Ohrid airport towards the very entrance of Ohrid was actually upgraded and turned into a fast road with 2 trumpet interchanges. That section is currently being upgraded to a full profile motorway, part of the Ohrid - Kicevo motorway.

Then, I'm assuming that several sections from Skopje towards Tetovo might have been fast roads during Yugoslavia but i can not confirm that. The interchange Gjorche Petrov (former entrance to Skopje before the Skopje bypass was built) was only done sometime in the late 90's as part of the motorway from Skopje to Tetovo. The construction of the motorway from Skopje to Tetovo lasted sometime from i think 1995 (if not earlier) up until 2002 or 2003. It was delayed partially because of the 2001 war. In some of the videos from the 2001 war you can see the motorway being under construction. I'm assuming several sections were partially opened, but I'm pretty sure that by 2003 the entire motorway from Skopje to Tetovo (excluding the Skopje bypass) was finished.

Then, Tetovo - Gostivar as we all know is a 2+2 Express Road ( Officially designated as "Motorway"), with narrower lanes and no hard shoulder. I'm assuming it was built in the 80's as a 4 lane express road (one video showing Yugoslav motorways actually shows on the map a road from Tetovo to Gostivar with double lines), and from what i have seen on old satellite images from 1986 i think that that Express Road might have indeed existed. Obviously at that era aside the "Brotherhood and Unity" motorway project, the second important corridor was linking Skopje and Ohrid with a fast, safe and better road connection. Maybe during Yugoslavia it was not important for them to build a motorway to Ohrid, but it can be seen that it was an important secondary corridor. Since Ohrid back then was a popular tourist destination and it still is today.

The part at Kumanovo from the Kumanovo motorway interchange to the second interchange at Kumanovo (towards the road to Kriva Palanka) is a fast road, albeit with a lower speed limit ( i think 80 or 70). But what's interesting is that with several other members from the build.mk forum we did note that they had unrealized plans to build some more grade - separated interchanges, and maybe turn most of the road from Kumanovo to Kriva Palanka to a fast road or something similar.

Then the last one is the fast road from Stip to Sveti Nikole. That section was probably built also sometimes in the 80's. However at that time it was envisioned for a fast road to go all the way from the Miladinovci Interchange to Stip as a fast road. However at that time only the section from Sveti Nikole towards Stip was built as a fast road. As part of the construction of the Skopje - Stip motorway (Miladinovci - Tri Cesmi) that section was completely upgraded to a full profile motorway. I don't know the reason why a fast road wasn't fully built back then. Must have been funding issues or maybe the authorities were not in a rush at that time to complete those projects. After all at that era in the 80's, Yugoslavia was in an economic crisis as far as i know, so a lot of planned projects never materialized and were never realized sadly.

Motorway bypass of Veles was finished sometime in the late 90's or early 2000's. The road though Pletvar pass was upgraded in 2001 to 1+2 because it was (at that time) the main route towards Ohrid, since in 2001 there was the war so vehicles did not go through Tetovo - Gostivar - Kicevo and had to use the alternative route Prilep - Bitola - Resen - Ohrid.
Rest of A1 towards Gevgelija (excluding the finished sections) were built from the period of 2002 to 2005.
A1 from Kumanovo to Tabanovce (border with Serbia) was only finished in 2011. Prior to that it was just a fast road with (I'm assuming) grade - separated interchanges.

The first motorway in my country was opened in 1972 or 1974 and it was the Katlanovo - Petrovec - Skopje (Interchange Hipodrom) section. Afterwards soon the Skopje (Interchange Hipodrom) - Miladinovci Interchange was finished sometime in the 70's as well, and then followed the rest of the motorway towards Kumanovo that was finished. After that the "motorway" near the Airport was finished, sometime in the early 80's and the last motorway to be finished during Socialist Yugoslavia was either the Veles - Katlanovo Section, or the Gevgelija (Smokvica) - Border with Greece motorway. Either of these were built in the 80's, but I'm unsure when the motorway towards the border with Greece was done so i can't say for sure which motorway was the last one to be finished in my country when it was still part of Socialist Yugoslavia.

Then, there is a 6 lane urban motorway section from the interchange Miladinovci to somewhere near the Cento Interchange. It was also planned for Skopje to have several urban motorways, but these plans never fully realized so they only managed to build the above-mentioned section. Those plans were mostly dropped and from time to time scrapped most likely due to funding issues.
You can see a lot of the plans in Kenzo Tange's 1960's Skopje Masterplan. How Skopje was meant to look. I will show you some images below, you can find more on Google.












































Eventually in (i think) the 2002 Skopje City Urban Plan most of these urban motorways were brought back, at least on paper. They were planned to be built but that never happened. Many governments changed since then and many mayors left Skopje and eventually when the new City Urban Plan was adopted it did not have these urban motorways.

Here is a link to that city urban plan. It's essentially the "wet dream" of everyone living in Skopje, including me.



http://www.build.mk/docs/GUP-Transport.jpg



I'm not essentially saying that Skopje needs to build 100% of these, and turn completely car - centric, because most of these ideas date back from the 60's back when the thinking of the planners was completely different, the way Skopje was envisioned, the way everything was envisioned was completely different. Nowadays we are all looking and trying to make cities more eco - friendly, have more people commute and rely on public transport more and more, since we're dealing with Global Warming issues, and trying to actively solve them. So that's why i personally think that Skopje does not need all of these urban motorways. Some of them would help yeah, but Skopje should instead provide better public transport systems. And for that we all know that a metro system will be the best choice here. For more info regarding that, i will share some interesting stuff that I'm working on in the appropriate thread for public transport in Skopje.

That's about it. If you managed to read all of this, you're awesome 😅


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## javier gallo

Caracas La Guaira Highway, 1953


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## The Wild Boy

There's one Irish on this forum, you can ask him


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## AnelZ

I also asked myself the same question some years ago. I honestly only see a reason for a full motorway on the route Bangor-Belfast-Dublin-Waterford-Cork on the whole island which would be around 475 km. On top of that, a "ringroad" around Dublin would be necessary with short sprouts to and around Greystones, Maynooth and maybe Ashbourne/Navan which would come 440-485 km (depending on the sprout to Ashbourne/Navan) within ROI. But who am I to decide for another country, especially as mine has some insane plans itself which it will never fulfill.


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## MattiG

*Road 51, Kivenlahti, Espoo, Finland*

The first stretch of the westbound coastal highway was complete at the end of 1960's. This is a photo on a new motorway about 18 kilometers to the west of Helsinki:










Quite soon, a new suburban area was built between the sea and the motorway (on the left side of the motorway in the picture). Currently, there are homes for about 25.000 people.

The area has changed a lot. This is an aerial photo from 2021:










The coming endpoint of the Helsinki subway is under construction. The old road as a parallel road has been closed and replaced by a new parking space. The residential area will be expanded to the other side of the motorway to have homes for 9000 people. New access streets as underpasses are under construction, and the motorway has been diverted temporarily.

The trees in the middle of both pictures are the same.


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## Corvinus

In what topic would this recent snapshot from Bantry (IRL) go? Shows an outdated directional sign with the old "T" prefixed road number. 

The road numbering scheme was rearranged in the 1980s if I recall correctly, and today Ireland's roads have N (national), R (regional) or L (local) prefixes, as well as M for motorways.


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## Stuu

Slagathor said:


> OK safety is a good reason, but Google tells me the Irish motorways run from Dublin to Galway, Limerick and Cork. They have total populations between 75k and 125k. Those are final destinations, there's nothing of substance in between.
> 
> Did they really need full scale motorways with hard shoulders and grade separations for that? I mean, this sort of thing seems really extravagant for those traffic volumes. Why didn't they go for simpler expressways like this type of road?


Virtually every journey in Ireland is by road, the rail network is tiny and pretty much irrelevant, so traffic volumes are much higher than you might expect. The motorways even in the middle of nowhere are carrying 15-20k vpd which isn't all that low for motorways


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## italystf

I-95 under construction near Richmond, Virginia, 28 March 1958










https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Construction_of_Interstate_95%2C_downtown_Richmond_%282899336022%29.jpg


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## Eulanthe

I've found something really, really interesting: a video of the Mont Blanc Tunnel in 1994:






It has a lot of historical significance, as it shows the tunnel as it was in the 1990s before the tragic fire in 1999. It's quite shocking to watch this in hindsight, because you can see that the tunnel had nearly no safety features, that the refuge shelters were poorly marked, and worse still: cars and trucks were tailgating each other through the tunnel.

Sadly, the border crossing was cut out of this video, but you can see the queue for the border control at least.

edit: One thing that is quite surprising and shocking is that the refuges for vehicles aren't big enough to accommodate a truck. The driver of the truck that went on fire was partially convicted in the French court based on the fact that he stopped the vehicle on the roadway rather than in a stopping area, but how could he possibly fit a truck in there?


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## Corvinus

Interesting article w/ numerous historical photos of Axenstrasse in Central Switzerland along Lake of Lucerne, a major link in the country's north-south connection, built about 160 years ago:









Axenstrasse: Die Faszination ist eng mit Tagödien verbunde


Die Entwicklung der Axenstrasse ist eine Geschichte von Aufschwung und Erfolg. Eine Geschichte von Faszination und Vergnügen. Und eine Geschichte von Leid und Tragödien. Vor Augen geführt wurde dies erneut diese Woche.




www.nzz.ch





About 1911:









1950s:


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## Pitchoune

The E40/A10 Brussels-Ostend is the first Belgian highway, built between 1937 and 1956, here around Brussels in 1956:
















(source)


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## Alex_ZR

Corvinus said:


> Interesting article w/ numerous historical photos of Axenstrasse in Central Switzerland along Lake of Lucerne, a major link in the country's north-south connection, built about 160 years ago:
> 
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> Axenstrasse: Die Faszination ist eng mit Tagödien verbunde
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> Die Entwicklung der Axenstrasse ist eine Geschichte von Aufschwung und Erfolg. Eine Geschichte von Faszination und Vergnügen. Und eine Geschichte von Leid und Tragödien. Vor Augen geführt wurde dies erneut diese Woche.
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Which country's license plates have cars on the left?

Edit: France and pre-1956 West Germany.


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## Kpc21

Pitchoune said:


> The E40/A10 Brussels-Ostend is the first Belgian highway, built between 1937 and 1956, here around Brussels in 1956:


Highway or motorway?

Highway in English is just any main road connecting towns etc. ... Doesn't have to be double-roadway, with limited access and so on.


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## Pitchoune

Motorway then (fr autoroute nl snelweg) with limited access separated directions and at least 2 lanes each way.


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## Eulanthe

I've just found this picture, and I'm slightly confused by it. I'm not sure where it's from, except that it's somewhere in Yugoslav Slovenia. But the confusing thing: the marking of the motorway to Ljubljana as the A1. Was it only in SR Slovenia that the Highway of Brotherhood and Unity was marked with a number?


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## Attus

Eulanthe said:


> I've just found this picture, and I'm slightly confused by it. I'm not sure where it's from, except that it's somewhere in Yugoslav Slovenia. But the confusing thing: the marking of the motorway to Ljubljana as the A1. Was it only in SR Slovenia that the Highway of Brotherhood and Unity was marked with a number?


It's Postojna,town center, exactly here:








Google Maps


Mit Google Maps lokale Anbieter suchen, Karten anzeigen und Routenpläne abrufen.




goo.gl




Titov trg was not closed back then, but traffic from and to the cave ran thtough it.


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## italystf

No I oval next to Trst (Trieste)?
A subdole territorial claim? 🤣🤣🤣


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## PovilD

italystf said:


> No I oval next to Trst (Trieste)?
> A subdole territorial claim? 🤣🤣🤣


Nordic countries do not indicate foreign cities by ovals and translations.
...and Norway didn't let any territory (one mountain to be exact) to Finland for 100 years jubilee


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## italystf

Eulanthe said:


> I've just found this picture, and I'm slightly confused by it. I'm not sure where it's from, except that it's somewhere in Yugoslav Slovenia. But the confusing thing: the marking of the motorway to Ljubljana as the A1. Was it only in SR Slovenia that the Highway of Brotherhood and Unity was marked with a number?


A1 Ljubljana - Postojna was not part of B&U highway. In Slovenia B&U highway went from the Austrian border near Jesenice to the Croatian border near Bregana, via Ljubljana. It's the present day A2, opened well after the independence.


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## Attus

Eulanthe said:


> I've just found this picture, and I'm slightly confused by it. I'm not sure where it's from, except that it's somewhere in Yugoslav Slovenia. But the confusing thing: the marking of the motorway to Ljubljana as the A1. Was it only in SR Slovenia that the Highway of Brotherhood and Unity was marked with a number?


The green sign "A1 Ljubljana" was added obviously later, although that section of the motorway was opened in the early 70's. @Verso posted a map recently in the Slovenian thread, but that has unfortunately no road numbers. I found a Yugoslavia road map from the 80's, that one, too, had no road numbers. However, I'm pretty sure, the motorway LJ-KO may not have had the number A1 back then. The photo must have been shot in the 90's.


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## Attus

italystf said:


> A1 Ljubljana - Postojna was not part of B&U highway. In Slovenia B&U highway went from the Austrian border near Jesenice to the Croatian border near Bregana, via Ljubljana. It's the present day A2, opened well after the independence.


I think Eulanthe, too, knows it. However that road having no road number is the only possible explanation ot another road having the number "one" (i.e. A1) in the Yugoslav times. Another explanation is that the photo was not shot in the Yugoslav times but in the 90's. And I think it's the real solution of the riddle.


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## Verso

I seriously doubt this was shot in independent Slovenia. You can see a Yugoslav flag hanging behind the signs, and that Diana on the left doesn't seem to have any coat of arms on its license plate (other than perhaps a small Yugoslav red star). I think the most plausible explanation is that it was simply a mistake and should've been A10 instead.


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## MattiG

*Hessund, Finland*

The road 180, inofficially The Archipelago Road, and its far end numbered 1800 extend 106 kilometers from the route 1 to the islands of the southwest Finland. Nowadays, travelling to the village of Mossala at the far end requires five ferries. Earlier, there we more ferries. As the town of Parainen has a large limestone mine, and a substantial fraction of all cement used in Finland is produced there, the heavy industrial traffic is incompatible with ferries. The last one between Kaarina and Parainen was removed in 1960's when the long suspension bridge in Kirjala was opened.

The strait close to Parainen, Hessund, had a ferry until 1937 when a big arch bridge got complete









_Hessund Bridge under construction_

The bridge was notable, and it even got a stamp in 1963:










The traffic grew, and the narrow bridge turned a bottleneck. In 1967, an upgrade was complete: A second arch was built, and the width of the deck doubled









_Hessund Bridge in 2022_

Now, the end of the lifetime is approaching. The bridges in Kirjala and Hessund are not able to carry the increased load caused by the current road trains of 76 tons max. The Kirjala bridge will be replaced by a big cable-stayed bridge, and Hessund by a more standard beam bridge. As soon as they are complete, the old bridges will be demolished.


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## SeñorGol

Spain: Madrid, M-30
1974










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Madrid,_M-30_1974_01.jpg












https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Madrid,_M-30_1974_02.jpg



1976










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Madrid,_M-30_1976_01.jpg












https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Madrid,_M-30_1976_02.jpg












https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Madrid,_M-30_1976_03.jpg



1981









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Madrid,_M-30_1981.jpg


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## ChrisZwolle

A 12 lane road with 4 carriageways must've been quite a sight at the time, considering Spain had almost no motorways and most long-distance traffic used two-lane roads to get across the country.


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## italystf

ChrisZwolle said:


> A 12 lane road with 4 carriageways must've been quite a sight at the time, considering Spain had almost no motorways and most long-distance traffic used two-lane roads to get across the country.


It's not that unusual for developing countries to have modern infrastructure near the capital city or other large cities and very little in the rest of the country.


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## MattiG

italystf said:


> It's not that unusual for developing countries to have modern infrastructure near the capital city or other large cities and very little in the rest of the country.


Often, their main purpose is not traffic but to be a monument of the dictator.


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## Gabriel-21

italystf said:


> It's not that unusual for developing countries to have modern infrastructure near the capital city or other large cities and very little in the rest of the country.


Unless you are Poland, where a proper motorway reached the capital city only in 2012. During communist era only some less than 1000 kilometers of dual carriageways with at-grade intersections were built, due to the lack of money for proper roads. The only motorway stretches (green) were away from Warsaw:


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## Kpc21

Formally, while motorways reach Warsaw, its bypass remains an expressway 

And it's located too much into the city to be a true motorway bypass.


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## Kpc21

Some pictures from a Polish city (no idea which one, randomly I'd guess Warsaw) as a part of a pedestrian safety TV campaign:







And a Nysa ambulance, which to me looks like something from a completely different world 

After that you have a Fiat 126p commercial with some computer game motives, a disturbing baby dummy commercial, and the beginning of the "Teleexpress" news.


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## javier gallo

Trans-Andean _Highway_ 1925, Venezuela. was inaugurated on July 24, 1925. It is 1,539 km long. It runs through the Venezuelan states of Mérida, Trujillo and Táchira, from the proximities of Agua Viva up until San Cristóbal. Its highest point is located on Collado del Cóndor, at 4,118 meters (13,510 ft), making it the highest highway in Venezuela.[1]


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## Alex_ZR

British car of an unknown brand on the motorway near Niš, Yugoslavia. I would say late 1960s.


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## MattiG

Alex_ZR said:


> British car of an unknown brand on the motorway near Niš, Yugoslavia. I would say late 1960s.


I would vote for Vauxhall Victor FB Series, in production 1960-1964.


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## Attus

Alex_ZR said:


> British car of an unknown brand on the motorway near Niš, Yugoslavia. I would say late 1960s.


Both Serbia and Macedonia used the cyrillic alphabet in the 60's, didn't they?


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## Alex_ZR

Attus said:


> Both Serbia and Macedonia used the cyrillic alphabet in the 60's, didn't they?


Yes, but I guess they used Latin script beause of the foreign drivers. All the people in Yugoslavia learned Latin script in elementary school anyway.


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## Stuu

SeñorGol said:


> Spain: Madrid, M-30
> 1974
> 
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> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Madrid,_M-30_1974_01.jpg
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> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Madrid,_M-30_1974_02.jpg
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> 1976
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> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Madrid,_M-30_1976_01.jpg
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> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Madrid,_M-30_1981.jpg


I'm amazed the M30 was that wide as long ago as 1976, I assumed it had been rebuilt much later - I guess that's somewhere around Ciudad Lineal?


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## Corvinus

Another gem from Neue Zürcher Zeitung (accessible for non-subscribers): article about the motorway rest area Würenlos on the Swiss A1 (then N1), inaugurated 50 years ago - an outstanding structure in form of a 140 m long bridge over the Autobahn, back then Europe's biggest rest area. Its rich offer of dining and shopping possibilities combined with the beam shape quickly earned it the nickname "Fressbalken" ("guzzling beam").

Vor 50 Jahren wurde die Autobahnraststätte in Würenlos eröffnet

The facility was a symbol of unlimited trust in economic and technical development and advance (manifesting also in a rapid increase in car ownership), fuelled among others by the economic miracle of the 1950s and '60s.


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