# Downtown life vs suburban life



## JDRS (Feb 8, 2004)

Downtown! This is SSC after all.


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## pwright1 (Jun 1, 2003)

Downtown life all the way. In the U.S. all the suburbs look and seem the same to me. Huge housing developments where every house looks alike would drive me insane. I can't imagine myself not living near museums, galleries, great restaurants, coffee houses, bookstores and everything else downtowns have to offer. Plus driving everywhere would get old.


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## Talbot (Jul 13, 2004)

Right now since I am younger and if I never had kids (which I doubt) I would most certainly live in downtown. Though if I did have kids than I would move to a street car type suburb where everything is still close together.


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## nikko (Jul 23, 2004)

Downtown definately...

If I had a family I'd settle for a place similar to Brooklyn or Queens. Still well connected, but relatively more peaceful.


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## beta29 (Sep 30, 2004)

downtown of course... more action, more to see, shops, clubs....


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## Rational Plan (Mar 15, 2004)

If I had the cash, then I would live some where like Marleybone, Fitrovia or Bloomsbury, Quiet central city neighboorhoods, But just 10 minutes walk from Soho/Covent Garden. But since I don't earn that sort of cash I live far outside London. I live far to the west of town in a suburban town (Slough). I live ten minute walk to my local station which is just a half on the train to London, with a train every half hour. The only problem is the local public transport. Buses are hideously expensive compared to larger cities. Local subsides only cover the elderley and evening and Sunday Bus services. So consequently I use my car for everything. In comparsion when lived in Sunnisde in Gateshead which was a small suburban village just outside town, the bus services were far more frequent and cheaper due to higher subsidies. I used use the bus all the time. 
So it all depends on the Suburb your in. I can walk to the local neighbourhood centre in 10 minutes if I want to. But since I usually pick up any thing I need on the drive back from work I don't do anything so healthy. My local town centre has limited shopping appeal so I barely spend an hour or two there. So the short term parking costs are low, and certainly out weigh Public transport costs. 

The suburbs do have their appeal, what with the better environment and generally quieter life. But If I had the cash then it would be in to town either central city or some posh inner suburb like Teddington or Chiswick where the local shops are crammed full of restaurants, nice quirky independent shops. Plus the public transport is cheap. Though I would have to look at a modern devlopment just so I would not have anxiety of searching for a parking space each night.


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## Botto-Urban-Fashion (Apr 2, 2005)

Downtown, I like the cities with high density and to live in apartaments, the houses in big quantities all arranged since burrows is very disagreeable for me.


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## flagship (Mar 24, 2005)

For me, rural life is the best. 

But between the two poll choices, I'll take the suburbs. 

You at least have space to breathe. 

What does downtown offer? It offers noise, congestion, crime, a mass of people. 

What benefits does being downtown bring? None that I can see. If you are some effminate panzy, I suppose you would appriciate the overpriced restaurants, theaters and other things of that ilk. But I have no use for any of that garbage. 

In the suburbs, you at least have some room to stretch out and live in a place that has more than 2 rooms. You have convineieces nearby, and easy access to rural areas for recrational purposes. 

The suburbs is clearly the better place to live, which is why most people live there and not in the inner city.


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## JBOB (Aug 26, 2005)

I like downtown but in Philly everywhere you go there's city life and something to do. We really don't have traditional suburbs but they are suburbs compared to center city. In any part of philly the density can be from 10,000 to 30,000 people per sq. mi.


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## dwrecker (Jul 27, 2004)

downtown......hands down :banana: :banana: 
more to do and see!

suburbs are just gettaways to avoid certain things and certain people. they have just as much traffic and crazy ignorant people as well if not more!


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## Ulf81 (Oct 11, 2005)

Inner city suburbs is the best place to live! Walking distance to most important stuff but still you can get the suburbian feeling


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

I prefer to work downtown, hangout downtown but live in the burbs!


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## staff (Oct 23, 2004)

I prefer European life = downtown life.


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## UrbanSophist (Aug 4, 2005)

Downtown, of course! 

Even if I had kids, I would still prefer downtown. I mean, there are a few parks in the city too...


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## Third of a kind (Jun 20, 2004)

Downtown life is okay, i'd really just prefer to live in a neighborhood with multiple subway/bus/commuter rail connections and a half hour commute to downtown 

somewhere where the rail service is 24/7 and I can drive when I feel like it...and you know there are really only two places in this country where you can do that


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## KGB (Sep 12, 2002)

"What benefits does being downtown bring? None that I can see. If you are some effminate panzy, I suppose you would appriciate the overpriced restaurants, theaters and other things of that ilk. But I have no use for any of that garbage."


Hey...that's a really terrific attitude ya got there. Keep cultivating it...I'm sure the burbs will be even better.





The downtown can get a bit oppressive after a while, but that's why you take a trip to the country occaisionally (nobody goes to the suburbs to escape downtown).

But, if you're lucky, your downtown is not just a concrete jungle, infested with crime, confusion, noise and "effminate panzies".

At least in Toronto, the downtown contains a huge number of districts or neighbourhoods which offer a wide range of experiences to eith hang out or live in. If you want quiet streets with the white picket fence and a hunk of grass to call your own or garden and a nice little park down the block, and streets where the kids can ride their bikes or play hopscotch on the sidewalk...then that is also possible...it's not all highrise living. You can even have a rural/wilderness experience.

And I swear I've gone hours without seeing a single effminate panzy. LOL



All this can be found scattered all over downtown Toronto...best of all, you don't have to be overly rich to afford it either.....



































































Of course, there's plenty of this too.....




























Why pick between one or the other...when you can have it all in one place???






KGB


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## Sitback (Nov 1, 2004)

I like to live in the suburbs of London cos they are quite nice for the bigger part and away from the hustle and bustle and we can have a big garden without needing to pay $40million for that fortune which is what you'll probably pay in Central London in a nice area. Such is the expense of living here.

For fun obviously I prefer downtown.


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## TO_Joe (Jul 22, 2005)

KGB said:


> "What benefits does being downtown bring? None that I can see....
> 
> The downtown can get a bit oppressive after a while, but that's why you take a trip to the country occaisionally (nobody goes to the suburbs to escape downtown)....
> 
> ...


I agree with you. But I think we are lucky that way in Toronto -- few other cities anywhere in the world are like that where the downtown is so mixed and liveable. 

That is why I like living in downtown Toronto so much -- you get both the culture, crowds, neighbourhoods and it can be quite pleasant and leafy.

Though Toronto ended up like this more by accident than by design, I think that future designs should all be like this -- mixed density, lots of trees, high rises and stores around subways, lots of subways or dedicated LRT high speed bus lanes to get people there faster than by car.

As for the suburbs, I hate them. I grew up in them (Mississauga in the 80s with about 250K population). Dull, unimaginative, lifeless, colourless, uniform chain stores (let's go shop at Sears at Square One! hooray!) and car-centric. 

Actually Mississauga today is a bit better and more colourful with 650K population and lots more ethnic diversity and culture (at least there are now bookstores like Chapters that carry a diverse selection of books and magazines instead of just the Harlequin Romances that you used to get at Coles, and good Indian and Chinese grocery stores and restaurants). 

But the traffic is now horrendous -- it can actually be worse than downtown! Just try driving from the airport to Square One or heading out to Meadowvale at rush hour -- GTA locals will know what I mean. Even good ole Mayor Hazel has admitted her mistake in developing a completely car-centered city with transit as an afterthought for the poor. 

Bottom line is that car-centric suburbs can't truly grow -- they can only sprawl at low densities with more highway lanes to ever greater distances chewing up even more fertile farmland.

Further, I think that the newly developed, cookie-cutter treeless subdivisions have a lower quality of life: being stuck in a car at all times (and even worse if you are a kid with no car and no mobility stuck in dullland), less of a neighbourhood feel (because it's new, people are moving in and out, and residential areas are strictly segregated from commercial hubs that draw people), and frankly it feels less safe because the streets are dark / houses empty and so there is more break-and-enter and no one will be around to notice if some decides to attack you.

And the other bad side effect of suburbia is typified by the numbskull here who called everyone downtown "effeminate panzies" (sic). 

This is the sort of ignorance and intolerance that suburban isolation brings. People often flee to the "safety" of the suburbs to protect their children, to get away from the poor and the homeless, to get away from "immigrants" or "queers" or what have you. While it's understandable for parents to want to bring their kids upright, it can lead to a narrow, conformist and somewhat paranoic protectionist view of the world and fuels divisive and destructive this "us and them" type politics.

Alas, I am pessimistic that we can get out of this suburban addiction. Money talks. Land owners and developers make lots of money bulldozing apple orchards into linked homes. Construction companies and the Home Depots survive off building roads, sidewalks and sewer pipes. Chain stores like McDonald's and Starbucks buy land cheap, build a drive-thru, and then cash it in of flip it a decade later tripling or quadrupling the asset value. So do companies like IBM and Allstate insurance and the supposed coolness of a campus-like headquarter. Adjacent municipalities get richer and the mayors and the town bureaucracy becomes more powerful. And despite all the hoopla about oil prices and commuter hell, it is still half the price for the space compared to downtown if you are willing to drive 70km or more. And people aren't demanding that much culture -- like the drone who said downtown had nothing more than overpriced restaurants (I wonder if he is comparing the Kelsey's downtown versus his neighbourhood branch). These are pretty powerful (and mutually reinforcing) forces to tackle.

In the meantime, I'll enjoy downtown vibe and culture and hope that I won't be forced to take a job in the suburbs and do the reverse commute.


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## I-275westcoastfl (Feb 15, 2005)

A single family home in or near downtown


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## partybits (Apr 29, 2005)

KGB said:


> At least in Toronto, the downtown contains a huge number of districts or neighbourhoods which offer a wide range of experiences to eith hang out or live in. If you want quiet streets with the white picket fence and a hunk of grass to call your own or garden and a nice little park down the block, and streets where the kids can ride their bikes or play hopscotch on the sidewalk...then that is also possible...it's not all highrise living. You can even have a rural/wilderness experience.
> 
> And I swear I've gone hours without seeing a single effminate panzy. LOL
> 
> ...


Agree with the most of your post, but, not being overly rich? Are you talking condos or homes here. Toronto is very lucky to have affordable housing within the core, but this is all in the form of condo's. For people who prefer the tree lined streets and a home with a backyard, I doubt there is anything affordable in the core anymore.

A townhouse goes for a minimum of $300k nowadays, and a fully detached would at least be $400k if not more. The ones that are cheap are not for sale as the people who do own them (probably bought them in the 50-70's) are multi-generational homes. Otherwise, they need extensive renovations.

However, I bet if we expand the area a bit (ie: High Park/Roncey, Beaches, Uptown), there might be some affordable homes, but I never did check out those prices.
I did a quick MLS search and these are the cheapest homes on the market for Downtown West:
http://www.mls.ca/PropertyResults.a...=1&ps=10&ptgid=1&aid=3333&MapURL=?AreaID=6367
And Downtown East:
http://www.mls.ca/PropertyResults.a...=1&ps=10&ptgid=1&aid=3339&MapURL=?AreaID=6367

P.S. That first pic of yours with the small little bungalow, where is that located? I no I've seen it before.


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## Cee_em_bee (May 12, 2004)

Inner Suburbs within walking distance to a train station


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## KGB (Sep 12, 2002)

"Agree with the most of your post, but, not being overly rich? A townhouse goes for a minimum of $300k nowadays, and a fully detached would at least be $400k if not more. "


Well, I said "overly" rich. $300-400k homes do not put you into the wealthy catagory...it's not far off the average house prices anywhere else in the city. I wasn't suggesting you can purchase an Annex vcitorian mansion on your welfare cheque. And when you start comparing it to brownstones in manhattan, which will cost you in the neighbourhood of $20 million, it starts looking relatively "free". LOL






"Are you talking condos or homes here. Toronto is very lucky to have affordable housing within the core, but this is all in the form of condo's. For people who prefer the tree lined streets and a home with a backyard, I doubt there is anything affordable in the core anymore."

Both really....townhomes or condos on those tree-lined streets are no more expensive than the ones anywhere else. And seeing as the old freehold homes will give you a much better equity boost (they ain't building any more victorian homes, but they can endlessly build new condos), they are a much better investment, so spending a bit more on them is something people should consider in the long run (plus you have the ability to supliment the purchase cost with an apartment or two, which you can't do with a condo).

And that's just purchasing....a lot of people want to rent.....and many of those fabulous old streets with the huge homes are really made up of flats....and the rent is pretty cheap these days. Even poor students get to live in fabulous old houses with front and backyards in those downtown neighbourhoods on the cheap.







"However, I bet if we expand the area a bit (ie: High Park/Roncey, Beaches, Uptown), there might be some affordable homes"

Or Parkdale....literally right next door to downtown, and brimming with amazing tree-lines streets and fabulous victorian houses. Although the word is out, and the houses tend to be large, and prices aren't that cheap overall...but cheap for what you get. Again, you can easily pay down that mortgage by utilizing the large amount of space....few are single family dwellings...too big. Instead, you have a basement apartment and a 2nd-3rd floor apartment, which pays most, if not all of your mortgage and reno costs, and live in the preety large part of the house left over.

This is what a lot of young couples are doing for a few years, until they have the kids and take over all, or part of the house. It's a smart move.







"That first pic of yours with the small little bungalow, where is that located? I no I've seen it before."


Oh...those ones are the Wellesley Cottages...in Cabbagetown. These little victorian cottages can be found all over the city....remember, Toronto was never big on tennaments, so everyone, including the "poor" lived in houses. They're cute...which is why they are pretty popular. Due to heritage laws, you can't really change the front of them...but a lot of them have rather large additions on the back, which you can't notice from the street.








KGB


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## partybits (Apr 29, 2005)

True, comparing to the likes of Manhattan, it's pretty good here. Don't have to be a millionare to buy a home (nevermind a condo).

I thought it was cabbagetown. Love to see the price tags on those little houselettes!


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## brucema (Oct 19, 2005)

suburbs to me, if convenient public transport is avalable, just like melbourne!


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## brucema (Oct 19, 2005)

**

in other words, do u prefer living in skyscrapers or houses


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## ECIrvine (Nov 8, 2005)

I'm from San Gabriel in Los Angeles County. It's not quite downtown but not suburban. You have the peace and quite in suburbia but all the amenities and "life" in the big city. Tough choice.


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## ralex231 (Oct 15, 2004)

Downtown-Single or young couple with no kids.
Suburban- when you have kids.


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## JBOB (Aug 26, 2005)

Downtown City Living all the way.. Density Density Density...

BTW
Nice pic of Melbourne!


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## I-275westcoastfl (Feb 15, 2005)

Semi-suburban i want a single family home but still close to downtown. :cheers2:


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## brucema (Oct 19, 2005)

*absolutely*



ralex231 said:


> Downtown-Single or young couple with no kids.
> Suburban- when you have kids.


i agree with u.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

A *downtown-style development* where everything is within walking distance and there is a major transit route nearby. In other words, self-sustainable density.


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## warwickland (Sep 22, 2005)

you guys are being pretty black and white, with no shades of gray. ever heard of midtown? 

i guess this shade of gray is somewhat rare in newer american sunbelt cities. i like living in a semi-dense hundred year old hood a couple blocks off a busy semi-dense BRT corridor with easy access to just about anything in the city.


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