# Life in German cities for an immigrant



## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

In 2008 Hamburg had almost 18.000 inhabitants from Africa, most of them being from Ghana, Egypt, Togo and Nigeria. That is about 1% of Hamburg's population.


----------



## Shanluo (Dec 11, 2010)

Yes 27% foreign born


----------



## kato2k8 (May 4, 2008)

hadrett32 said:


> Yeah, but Berlin is more ethnically diverse than these cities, they only have turks and european immigrants, whereas berlin has nearly everything.


Statistics *will* tell you something else.



hadrett32 said:


> Never been to Northern Neukölln, heh?


Have been there. About as ethnically diverse as Frankfurt-Ostend. Just with Ostend's sizable Albanian population share entirely replaced by Germans on top of the regular Germans in Neukölln.

And there's a bit more to ethnicity than skin color.


----------



## tk780 (Jun 21, 2007)

Berlin and Hamburg _do_ have more diverse immigrant populations than most other German cities, but this is somewhat offset by the fact that their *overall* immigrant populations (as a percentage of the total population) are on the lower end of the scale. Frankfurt is the only city whose immigrant population is both large _and_ diverse.


----------



## hadrett32 (Dec 8, 2010)

tk780 said:


> Berlin and Hamburg _do_ have more diverse immigrant populations than most other German cities, but this is somewhat offset by the fact that their *overall* immigrant populations (as a percentage of the total population) are on the lower end of the scale. Frankfurt is the only city whose immigrant population is both large _and_ diverse.


Yea, that's right. However, Berlin's percentage of foreigners is lowered by the Eastern Part of Berlin, which i found quite depressing and homogenous (with the exception of Prenzlauer Berg, Pankow) compared to the culturally and ethnically diverse Western Part. (Of course Berlin is now an entire city, but i bet that the percentage of foreigners in the Western Part would be as high as Frankfurt's)


----------



## hadrett32 (Dec 8, 2010)

with depressing and homogenous i meant marzahn and hohenschonhausen


----------



## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

The problem is that Berlin's immigrantrs are mostly low class. In other cities such as Frankfurt or Munich, immigrants are of all social classes with a high proportion of professionals.


----------



## hadrett32 (Dec 8, 2010)

goschio said:


> The problem is that Berlin's immigrantrs are mostly low class. In other cities such as Frankfurt or Munich, immigrants are of all social classes with a high proportion of professionals.


in Berlin it depends largely on the area: in Mitte, Prenzlauer Berg, Pankow and Zehlendorf there are many 'rich' expats from countries like US, UK, France, Spain, Japan, who are IT-Professionals, artists, and ambassadors. Unfortunately it seems that it also depends on the ethnic group: for instance, Arabs and Turks are mostly lower-middle-class or lower class, whereas European immigrants tend to have a more solid middle class. Additionally, Students of Asian origin are on average better in school than most of the 'white' students. (similiar to the situation here in canada) Hence, the next generation of professionals in Germany could have a high percentage of Vietnamese-Germans, (is there a term like this?) so long as they don't emigrate to Canada


----------



## hadrett32 (Dec 8, 2010)

> kato2k8 said:
> 
> 
> > Statistics *will* tell you something else.
> ...


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Just a note: if you define "foreign origin" as "migrant or descendant of migrants" then roughly 100% of the US is "foreign origin". Arguably 100% of the people in any country couild be so classified if you go back far enough. We have to clarify the definition a bit.


----------



## Anderson Geimz (Mar 29, 2008)

pesto said:


> Just a note: if you define "foreign origin" as "migrant or descendant of migrants" then roughly 100% of the US is "foreign origin". Arguably 100% of the people in any country couild be so classified if you go back far enough. We have to clarify the definition a bit.


No they do not! Only 20% of people in the US would qualify that way. Roughly the same as in Germany.

Now troll be gone...


----------



## tk780 (Jun 21, 2007)

pesto said:


> Just a note: if you define "foreign origin" as "migrant or descendant of migrants" then roughly 100% of the US is "foreign origin". Arguably 100% of the people in any country couild be so classified if you go back far enough. We have to clarify the definition a bit.


Germany defines persons of 'immigrant background' as first generation immigrants and their children (and in some cases grandchildren, if they live in the same household as their grandparents)


----------



## TheInsider (Dec 22, 2010)

hadrett32 said:


> so long as they don't emigrate to Canada


what kind of arrogant statement is this? I'm actually shocked this actually does came from a Canadian.


----------



## hadrett32 (Dec 8, 2010)

TheInsider said:


> what kind of arrogant statement is this? I'm actually shocked this actually does came from a Canadian.


this was just a joke, not serious.


----------



## kato2k8 (May 4, 2008)

tk780 said:


> Germany defines persons of 'immigrant background' as first generation immigrants and their children (and in some cases grandchildren, if they live in the same household as their grandparents)


The exact legal* definition of "migration background" is:

1. anyone who has personally immigrated to Germany since 1949
2. anyone born in Germany with a non-German citizenship at birth
3. anyone born in Germany with German citizenship at birth with at least one parent to whom 1. or 2. applies

This currently catches about 19% of the German population, with about 9% falling under 1. (1st-generation immigrants) and 10% falling under 2. or 3. (others).

*codified in the Migrationshintergrunderhebungsverordnung.


----------



## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

kato2k8 said:


> Migrationshintergrunderhebungsverordnung.


What a nice example of bureaucratic german.

The last time I visited my old hometown (Hamburg), I noticed the diversity in the metro. Apart of german I could hear polish, turkish, arabic, farsi, russian, spanish, portuguese and african patois of french and english, all on one ride.
I notice this especially because in my new hometown (Wroclaw) I usually hear only polish, with rarely someone speaking in russian, english or german on the streets (tourists don't count).


----------



## kato2k8 (May 4, 2008)

DiggerD21 said:


> The last time I visited my old hometown (Hamburg), I noticed the diversity in the metro.


I get the same on the night busses here. No matter which direction you turn you'll hear a different language. And none of them are tourists (hence why Korean is sort of lacking still...).


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Anderson Geimz said:


> No they do not! Only 20% of people in the US would qualify that way. Roughly the same as in Germany.
> 
> Now troll be gone...


Please read the other responses to my comment to see what a civil adult answer looks like.

Are you arguing that 80 percent of the US is NOT made up of people who are descended from immigrants? That's sort of like arguing that 80 percent of the US is people who are not descended from early man. This is why it's useful to clarify what is meant by "descended from immigrants" and other terms.


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

That is a very Germanic definition, both because of the precision with which it is drafted and because of the attempt to deal with the historic realities of population movement in Germany. My guess is that it was trying to isolate people who might have some difficulty assimilating into traditional German culture, but I am just guessing.

btw, I'm guessing that that standard applied to LA or NY or SF would yield about 90 percent. My self, my wife and my children would all be "migrant background".


----------



## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

Was only a matter of time. hno:


----------

