# Most complex directional signage on motorways/freeways



## aswnl (Jun 6, 2004)

Directional signage is "_the art of leaving out details_". However, there are quite a number of directional signs that can only be described as utterly complex. On motorways this can be a negative issue on traffic safety. If you have examples of very complex directional roadsigns in your country or abroad (i.e. by arrows, textual overload, roadnumber-potpourri, or even misguiding), especially on motorways, please post them here. (A streetview link is also fine). Thank you


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## pascalwithvespa95 (May 10, 2017)

Oh, Romania...

First example here:








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The exit should say: "Timisoara centru" (f.e.)
And going straight: "Timisoara est, aeroport"

In my opinion that is very misleading. If you for example want to go downtown, you can´t know whether to stay on the motorway or take the exit,


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## Kpc21 (Oct 3, 2008)

Plenty of such cases in Poland...

For example... Google Maps










Now it's not so bad as there is only one transit direction. But previously it looked like this:


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## Adrian.02 (Nov 3, 2019)

pascalwithvespa95 said:


> Oh, Romania...
> 
> First example here:
> 
> ...


Hihi,my city!I agree that the signage is plainly cr*p in Romania,but sadly,that is what we've got!And everything is decided from Bucharest!


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## Norsko (Feb 22, 2007)

Not too complex by itself, but never understood the point of the Norwegian "500 m fork", it's just a huge version of the perfectly good 1000 m board. When I see these signs on other European motorways they also provides through traffic information, ours do not...
Edit: 1000 m signs do not include road numbers, but those would fit good just behind the locations.


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## PovilD (Dec 26, 2011)

Norsko said:


> View attachment 256291
> 
> 
> Not too complex by itself, but never understood the point of the Norwegian "500 m fork", its just a huge version of the perfectly good 1000 m board. When I see these signs on other European motorways they also provides through traffic information, this one does not...
> Edit: 1000 m sign does not include road numbers, but those would fit good just behind the locations.


Norwegians clearly tried to copy Germans, but it lacks practical use from forks, unless E6 in that example would additionally indicate destinations of the following junctions which Germans (and now Dutch) do have.

Me personally I do more like Swedish, and especially Danish approach for indicating exits on motorway junctions.


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## PovilD (Dec 26, 2011)

Btw, Lithuania tries to avoid complex signage, except if they are on city streets that are administrated by city municipalities. There are some worst examples probably not only in Lithuania, but in Europe itself.

Worst examples from Kaunas (where I live):


















Complex realizations in Vilnius (realized in mid-2010s). Entrance to Western bypass:









Western bypass itself










---
As for rural sections, the worst parts are marking junctions with more than one lane per direction. Direction is marked not on the start of exit lane, but on the end. You are mostly greeted with this or similar sign:









Direction sign greets you at the end. This is the worst case. Directional sign is hidden as much as potentially possible in the middle of the fork 









Current standards for directional signage in junctions. Your wanted direction sign is still looking far away. This is featured in motorway junctions too:









This mimic the standard of regular junction. Nothing too interesting here, if comparing with other EU countries.










There are advance signs too, but these are only implemented on more important junctions (between first and second category roads) with rare exceptions on other roads. Interestingly such implementation standard includes motorways too, making many minor junctions poorly marked:









These type signs are not being implemented in standardized manner. Some junctions has it, some don't. These are usually implemented on the beginning of the exit lane.


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## Norsko (Feb 22, 2007)

PovilD said:


> Norwegians clearly tried to copy Germans, but it lacks practical use from forks, unless E6 in that example would additionally indicate destinations of the following junctions which Germans (and now Dutch) do have.
> 
> Me personally I do more like Swedish, and especially Danish approach for indicating exits on motorway junctions.


The Danish motorway signage, as well as the simpler Hungarian version looks good! Guess I am a minimalist!


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## PovilD (Dec 26, 2011)

Norsko said:


> The Danish motorway signage, as well as the simpler Hungarian version looks good! Guess I am a minimalist!


Me too, actually  I'm thinking if Hungarian and Danish motorway signage itself is one of the best in Europe: minimalist, no empty spaces, but with most useful information provided 

Lithuanians try to be minimalist too, but by avoiding necessary reforms for making clearer and better looking design. The design itself is not intended to be minimalist.


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## rakcancer (Sep 2, 2010)

Kpc21 said:


> Plenty of such cases in Poland...
> 
> For example... Google Maps
> 
> ...


These are indeed complex but not on motorways/freeways as thread says. This is just regular road in urban area.


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## PovilD (Dec 26, 2011)

rakcancer said:


> These are indeed complex but not on motorways/freeways as thread says. This is just regular road in urban area.


My observations on Lithuanian roads fits well for Lithuanian motorways too. Interestingly, same directional signage aspects are implemented for motorways as on regular roads, except advance sign is implemented 500 m away instead of 300 m. There are rare exceptions for advance signs implemented 800 m, 1000 m away, and with advance signs being repeated two times before the junction (like for example, implemented 800 m and 500 m from junction).

On the other hand, thread could be renamed. There are interesting examples not just on motorways/freeways but on other roads too.


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## Schule04 (May 10, 2009)

The tiny useless direction signs in Vienna, especially on its motorways. At the time you can read them it's already too late to switch lanes anyway.
















Google Maps


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www.google.com





These "interesting" signs at the hungary-croatian border:









Some Swiss Kantons love making individual signs for each lane, even when both have the same destinations:









There also existed some signs on austrian motorways which had GR and TR signed, not sure why


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## PovilD (Dec 26, 2011)

Schule04 said:


> There also existed some signs on austrian motorways which had GR and TR signed, not sure why


I found them interesting. Maybe these are dedicated for migrant workers from those countries. Direction - home.


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## Kpc21 (Oct 3, 2008)

Schule04 said:


> Some Swiss Kantons love making individual signs for each lane, even when both have the same destinations:


Maybe because they are variable and one of the lanes may change the destination on its own?


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

For sheer wordiness, it’s hard to beat France.


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## Sponsor (Mar 19, 2006)

Kpc21 said:


> Maybe because they are variable and one of the lanes may change the destination on its own?


At first I thought you were right. But then I checked and turned out there are many of such signs and they are not variable.

















It's flat plate. Not a prismatic one.

I must say it's confusing to see the same destinations on separate signs. Makes me feel that the other one must be something different.


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## PovilD (Dec 26, 2011)

If I don't mistaken, these are only junctions in Lithuania where directions are for each individual lanes, similar like in photos above from Switzerland.

















Marijampolė is repeated on each lane. I guess these gantries were implemented somewhere in early 2000s when E67 new alignment was completed between Marijampolė and Kaunas (new alignment is now converted to motorway). I think there was no standard back then for implementing arrows for each lanes below city names. New standard for arrow markings was implemented in late 2000s.









Thankfully, this new standard made such practices to be avoided in other projects.


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## Stuu (Feb 7, 2007)

Which way is Valencia?


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## keber (Nov 8, 2006)

This signage on A2 before Vienna still confuses me even after more than 10 years of existence especially if you miss first part 1000 meters before (for example, because of high truck obstructing view). It divides Vienna directions and all international directions (that are represented only with small ovals)


























Google Maps


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www.google.com


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## 54°26′S 3°24′E (Oct 26, 2007)

^^ Confusing indeeed, and way too much info. Are you meant to park somewhere and study the signage before moving on ;-)

Even after studying it for a while, it is not intuitive for me what the signage for the through way means. Left and right lanes for A2, the two cental lanes for Vienna?



Norsko said:


> View attachment 256291
> 
> 
> Not too complex by itself, but never understood the point of the Norwegian "500 m fork", it's just a huge version of the perfectly good 1000 m board. When I see these signs on other European motorways they also provides through traffic information, ours do not...
> Edit: 1000 m signs do not include road numbers, but those would fit good just behind the locations.


I think these signs serve their purpose well. The main point in having to signs is to give the driver a second chance to notice the exit. However, the second sign gives some additional information:

Throughway info: In this setting, the road number is enough. More detailed info with key destination has normally already been given several times along the motorway, and will also be given after the interchange. Additing destination would just clutter the sign. (In urban settings / more complex settings, at least one key destination is normally given also for the through way, though)
Road number relevant for the exit (as already noted)
That the exit to those places are to the right. That is actually quite important info that enables the driver to prepare

Sometimes, the first sign is also equipped with a name of the interchange, but I guess to avoid too complicated signage rarely on the second sign,.


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## PovilD (Dec 26, 2011)

This is an example when you try to be as cheap as possible for implementing signage, but your design result is ambiguous.

I think there is should be a limit where is enough cheap that the result become too bad, you must spend at least some money on quality.

Maybe I'm not talking about all countries, but some countries or even just areas of the countries try to be cheap, but end up with bad results.

It also has to do with too complicated-looking lane configuration.


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

keber said:


> This signage on A2 before Vienna still confuses me even after more than 10 years of existence especially if you miss first part 1000 meters before (for example, because of high truck obstructing view). It divides Vienna directions and all international directions (that are represented only with small ovals)
> View attachment 261347
> 
> 
> ...


Are the A23 and E59 the same road? If so, I’d put the markers together, midway between where they are now, because I’m tempted to read that as two roads with two sets of destinations.


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## 54°26′S 3°24′E (Oct 26, 2007)

It is usually not about cheap or expensive, at least not in the Vienna case, those signs look fairly elaborate and expensive. However, the purpose of signage should be to give enough and logical information and not try to make your sign into a map. In the given example, there are basically three options one needs to know about:
S1/E60E - airport (SK / H): Exit and keep right
A21/E60W - St. Pölten: Exit and keep left
A2/E59: Wien: Through road

No more info should be given, IMO. A23 and especially A4 can be signposted further down the roads. Seriously, the German border and Linz are at the other end of the country, and only locals would have heard about Schwechat! Too much info is a hazard.









Google Maps


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goo.gl


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## tbo_147 (Nov 20, 2019)

Your thoughts on these signposts on Aholaita interchange (vt 4/9/13/23) in Jyväskylä when coming from Vaajakoski? 

Advance signpost before interchange










Direction signs on beginning of exit ramp 










As you can see there are so many destinations so only road numbers are shown on direction signs at beginning of exit ramp but you can see the destinations again when the ramp branches towards south and north


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## PovilD (Dec 26, 2011)

There are also these signs (if they aren't removed to this day):









I think many destinations should be avoided on one road sign.

That's the reason why Lithuanian Road Administration (but not inner streets of Vilnius or Kaunas city municipality) sticks to the max of three destinations per direction, especially when a country uses all caps font.

As from me, I think there could be less control cities on signs. At least one city could be removed. For this case, I don't think Senajoki is needed here. Four destinations - easier to understand. Even the advance sign itself would look more balanced, let's say, symmetric, without one of the destination  I think there is a limit to what number a human could count objects at one glance. If it's "6" or "5", people tend to count it like "3+3" with "6", and "2+3" with "5". "4" is a limit, but it can be understood as "2+2". "3" is usually always "3" and not separated  From what I seen, Lithuanian Road Administration puts four destination if one of destination is a city district on white background, while other destinations are on blue or, more rarely, green background. Four destinations can be put as "2+2" or "1+3".


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## tbo_147 (Nov 20, 2019)

In Helsinki area the amount of destinations are much limited because destinations have to be marked both in Finnish and Swedish. Actually just noticed there are actually is another direction sign at beginning of exit ramp, didn't spot it last night. That's quite rare when there are direction sign both on road level and above the lines, usually it is either road level or above lines. I found another example of that on Lusi (vt 4/5) interchange where there are actually advance sign, exit sign and signs above lines at beginning of exit ramp towards Jyväskylä. But I think the reason why there are so many signposts is just the fact Lusi interchange is such a crucial interchange and also to make sure people actually understand vt 4 turns right towards Jyväskylä.


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## tbo_147 (Nov 20, 2019)

And what comes to Aholaita interchange I think it could help to mark road numbers next to destinations on advance sign to inform vt 4 goes towards Oulu, vt 9 towards Tampere and so on.


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## aswnl (Jun 6, 2004)

keber said:


> This signage on A2 before Vienna still confuses me even after more than 10 years of existence especially if you miss first part 1000 meters before (for example, because of high truck obstructing view). It divides Vienna directions and all international directions (that are represented only with small ovals)
> View attachment 261347
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you all for your answers. 
The examples here from Austria are quite dramatic...


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

aswnl said:


> Thank you all for your answers.
> The examples here from Austria are quite dramatic...


My problem is I try to read the whole sign. Even if I know I’m not doing anything at this interchange, I want to know where the other roads are going. Part of my lifelong obsession with geography. Which can be problematic at 110 km/h on a French big-city rocade....


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## MattiG (Feb 11, 2011)

tbo_147 said:


> Your thoughts on these signposts on Aholaita interchange (vt 4/9/13/23) in Jyväskylä when coming from Vaajakoski?
> 
> Advance signpost before interchange
> 
> View attachment 266693


What is the problem there in your opinion?

Because of the lakes, this short urban motorway east of Jyväskylä is a four-fold multiplex (and two European roads ). In addition, the road 18 begins in Jyväskylä. If you have five main roads leaving the junction, it is sure that you have at least five names on then sign. It is a pretty simple junction: The speed limit is 80 km/h only and the sign is easily visible. All trunk directions take the exit, and the final separations takes place at the seconds branch. (There is a double branch in every cloverleaf junction having collector ramps, thus nothing special.) If someone happens to take a wrong ramp, there is only a few hundred meters to the next exit with a turning option.


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## 54°26′S 3°24′E (Oct 26, 2007)

But there is ony two main roads leaving the junction, is it not, E63 and E75? Again, like in the Vienna case, I think they try to cram too much info into the signs. Later branch-offs they should deal with later, Tampere and Oulo should suffice as control cities and E63 and E75 as road number for the exit, IMO. And, for us foreigners, a city center icon would help next to "Keskusta" ;-)








62°14'42.0"N 25°46'45.6"E · Jyväskylä sub-region, Finland


Jyväskylä sub-region, Finland




goo.gl


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## MattiG (Feb 11, 2011)

54°26′S 3°24′E said:


> But there is ony two main roads leaving the junction, is it not, E63 and E75? Again, like in the Vienna case, I think they try to cram too much info into the signs. Later branch-offs they should deal with later, Tampere and Oulo should suffice as control cities and E63 and E75 as road number for the exit, IMO. And, for us foreigners, a city center icon would help next to "Keskusta" ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In the Finnish signage, the E numbers are just secondary semi-irrelevant additional information, and the red numbers are significant. The 9 and 18/23 branch after a few kilometers to the south. The multiplex of 4 and 13 is about 35 kilometers of length. Both 13 and 23 are important routes crossing the entire country from the west coast to the East. No single reason to drop them from the signage.

The Finnish Road Administrator had earlier quite strict rules to limit the number of names into two per direction. These rules were relieved in 1970's and 1980's. Perhaps the saw that the literacy has improved. Nowadays, typical number of names at branches is three: The control city, the next bigger place, and a local destination or the next municipality. Putting more names is allowed when there are reasons to do so. The cases are pretty rare, and seen mainly at ring roads and interconnected junctions like approaching the Tampere Spaghetti: Google Maps

The "City Center" pictogram was introduced by the new Road Traffic act effective as of Jun 1st this year. I do not expect it being of much help, because such a sign is not very widely used in Europe. To me, it looks like a guidance to a shooting range. Foreigners use a navigator to find their destination, and they are not dependent on the text on signs.


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## tbo_147 (Nov 20, 2019)

MattiG said:


> What is the problem there in your opinion?
> 
> Because of the lakes, this short urban motorway east of Jyväskylä is a four-fold multiplex (and two European roads ). In addition, the road 18 begins in Jyväskylä. If you have five main roads leaving the junction, it is sure that you have at least five names on then sign. It is a pretty simple junction: The speed limit is 80 km/h only and the sign is easily visible. All trunk directions take the exit, and the final separations takes place at the seconds branch. (There is a double branch in every cloverleaf junction having collector ramps, thus nothing special.) If someone happens to take a wrong ramp, there is only a few hundred meters to the next exit with a turning option.


Just wanted to hear other's opinions on those signs. I think in the advance sign road numbers should be next to destination to make clear vt 4 goes towards Oulu, vt 9 goes towards Tampere so on. And road numbers should be on bigger font on above line signposts. Otherwise I don't see much issues on those signs, for me amount of destinations are correct.


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## da_scotty (Nov 4, 2008)

I always find this amount of info near Breda (netherlands terrible).









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