# [USA] United States | Interstate Highways



## e2ksj3

What is your opinion of them? We were discussing them in class today. I think they are pretty innovative idea. Charging a user to bypass traffic congestion. The lanes pay for themselves through toll revenue. They get the maximum use out of a HOV lane, which can coexist with the HOT lane traffic. One example of this is in Houston. The HOV restriction is for 3 or more people, however you can pay a toll and need only 2 people. HOV to HOT conversion is relatively inexpensive. The San Diego I-15 HOT lane conversion was only $1.5 Million, which is pretty cheap for a highway project.
Some people are opposed to them, calling them "Lexus Lanes", because it would give wealthier people an advantage over others.


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## Azazel

bad bad bad bad bad. Sucks. What's next, separate lanes by ethnicity?


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## GENIUS LOCI

HEY, Azazel.
Is it not the name of a devil?
:devil:
that makes me afraid to click on your avatar...brrr, maybe I meet face to face Lucifer...... Ah Ah Ah Ah Ah


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## Nephasto

What are HOV lanes? 
You have to have a minimum number of persons on a car to travel on them?!


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## The anti-cheesehead

I use them every day on the way to work because I'm in a carpool. They are going to start charging people though. Ish.


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## odegaard

Nephasto said:


> What are HOV lanes?
> You have to have a minimum number of persons on a car to travel on them?!


HOV lane == high occupancy vehicle lane......aka car pool lane. Some HOV lanes mandate a minimum of 2 people while others mandate at least 3 people per vehicle.

I'm kinda undecided about HOT lanes or Lexus Lanes. On one hand you can argue why not? I mean rich people have bigger houses, sit in first class on airplanes, go to expensive colleges, nice restaurants, the list is almost infinite. So what's the big deal if we let them pay a little extra for their own freeway lane?

On the other hand you can argue that a public project should be equally available to all members of the public whether rich or poor. 

I think HOT lanes should be allowed so long as it's 100% privately funded. However realistically speaking it's VERY difficult to fund a freeway privately.


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## e2ksj3

I don't know about the whole rich people only using them idea though. Yeah rich people will use them, but rich people aren't the only one's that use a toll road. I look at it in those contexts. Who uses the NJ Turnpike or Lincoln Tunnel? Who uses the Dulles Toll Road in Virginia or the Bay Bridge in California? People that are headed in that direction. I think people who use the HOT lanes will be the same, if a mom needs to get to a daycare, she'll use the lanes or a business person needs to get to the airport, they will use it too.

My only problem real beef with the system, is that it does take away from carpoolers. I like the idea of the facility coexisting with the HOV. For example, if your carpooling with 2 or more people, you can use the facility for free, however, if your a solo driver, you must pay a toll.


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## FM 2258

I think it's a great idea. If you can't afford it, make more money.


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## smeghead

Or you could just toll everyone, rich or poor, and allow carpoolers to split the toll amongst themselves.


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## czm3

The point that everybody is missing here is that everyone benefits. If somebody want to spend to get in a faster lane thats good for the people in the slow (free) lanes that get rid of another car in front of them. Both sides win, by paying, the "lexus" is actually helping the other drivers out. So long traffic moves at normal speeds on these lanes, the HOVs will be unaffected.


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## FM 2258

czm3 said:


> The point that everybody is missing here is that everyone benefits. If somebody want to spend to get in a faster lane thats good for the people in the slow (free) lanes that get rid of another car in front of them. Both sides win, by paying, the "lexus" is actually helping the other drivers out. So long traffic moves at normal speeds on these lanes, the HOVs will be unaffected.


Very true, it's a win/win situation.


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## czm3

Funny.

today on the cusp of 2005 we call them "Lexus lanes"

When they were built, they were refered to as the "Robin Hood Freeway"


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## Azazel

I guess it depends whether a splid public transportation solution exists, czm3.


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## HoustonTexas

HOV (High occupancy vehicles) doesn't cost shit. There only one lane, and are open in the morning heading Downtown, and open in the afternoon, to the suburbs... They work reletivly well, and most stops are by the Metro Park and ride bus stations in the outlying communities. They work really well for the buses, and vehicles. The only reason one would not work is if there is a wreck on one, which is rare. You can get off and on them anytime you get a chance. Sometimes they have opening right on the Highway!


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## kjb434

The Houston HOV network, which is the most advance and lengthy one in the US, is our form of mass transportation rail. Large busses carry several 1000s of people into the city in the morning and repeats it to carry out. These people are just paying for the bus ride. Also, some extremely outlying suburbs have private bus service that use these lanes. The remove loads of people that would otherwise be one person to a car from the mainlanes of our freeways.

The amount of people this system moves in Houston exceeds the passenger volume on Atlanta's MARTA rail system and Dallas' Dart rail system.

The newest incarnation will be a 4 lane bi-directional toll road that is free for people with three or more in the car that is placed in the center of the Katy Freeway reconstruction project. This freeway is the main freeway to take commuters from Downtown and Uptown to the west side of the city.


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## Latin l0cO

Living here in NewYork I sort of forget sometimes that most Interstates outside of the area are free.


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## FM 2258

kjb434 said:


> The Houston HOV network, which is the most advance and lengthy one in the US, is our form of mass transportation rail. Large busses carry several 1000s of people into the city in the morning and repeats it to carry out. These people are just paying for the bus ride. Also, some extremely outlying suburbs have private bus service that use these lanes. The remove loads of people that would otherwise be one person to a car from the mainlanes of our freeways.
> 
> The amount of people this system moves in Houston exceeds the passenger volume on Atlanta's MARTA rail system and Dallas' Dart rail system.
> 
> The newest incarnation will be a 4 lane bi-directional toll road that is free for people with three or more in the car that is placed in the center of the Katy Freeway reconstruction project. This freeway is the main freeway to take commuters from Downtown and Uptown to the west side of the city.


I honestly think Houston has the coolest highway system in the U.S. and I'm glad to see they're gonna implement toll lanes on Interstate 10 since it's a perfect idea. This is not putting people into classes, it's giving people more options. At least in this case you can drive on Interstate 10 for free or if you want better service then pay for the toll lanes. Hell, they did that for Westpark Drive and the Westpark Tollway. I live in Austin but was in Houston earlier today and I wish I had an EZ tag for the Westpark tollway. Houston has some of the best ideas for highways yet and I'm also very glad to see their Metro Train in use.


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## MSP

Minneapolis opens up its first HOT lanes tommorow morning.
http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5404915.html
I don't like the idea of paying to drive on a road that is already paid for...


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## FM 2258

MSP said:


> Minneapolis opens up its first HOT lanes tommorow morning.
> http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5404915.html
> I don't like the idea of paying to drive on a road that is already paid for...


They're tolling only part of the highway so as long as you stay out of the toll lanes you're not paying to drive on a road that's already paid for. I actually think of these toll lanes as a seperate highway slapped in the middle of an existing one. Hell, maybe they should apply this idea to most major urban freeways but we still need wiiiiiiider and better highways in my opinion. 

So I'm fine with this idea as long as they don't take an existing free highway and slap toll plazas across all lanes of traffic. As for new tollways, go ahead and build them, we need more highways in this country, at least here in Texas but I bet it really applies to California as well. 

Also a light high speed rail along all major freeways with convenient park/rides would be a great idea to complement our freeways and busy roads. I actually tried the Houston Metro and I was impressed. They need to expand it for it to work better in my opinion.


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## gronier

*US State with the WORST highways????*

Which US state do you think has the highways in the crappiest condition????


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## I-275westcoastfl

Calfornia and Texas


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## OettingerCroat

alaska?


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## VansTripp

California easily


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## 2000_Watts

Missouri, especially outside of St. Louis


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## demanjo

Its amazing that i hear California, especially considering how car reliant the state is...


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## Effer

California.


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## Guest

Oklahoma, Texas and California.


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## sbarn

California? Are you guys kidding? It has some of the best roads I've seen in the U.S.


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## lazar22b

california? where is it that bad? their highways are pretty good.

arkansas has pretty bad highways.


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## Burnout 3

New York because the highways are outdated.


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## DonQui

Burnout 3 said:


> New York because the highways are outdated.


Yup, because we pay other states to build nice ones, thanks to our lovely relationship with the federal government.


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## Manbil

How about Illinois? hno: :no:


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## nomarandlee

I would think it would a northern state with lots of ice and bad winter conditions. All the salt and cold and extreme heat of the mid-west throughout the year can't be good for roads.


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## The anti-cheesehead

I've been all over the US and the worst roads I've ever driven on were in NYC. It seems like their maintenance crews just can't keep up.


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## The anti-cheesehead

and about California, I don't think the roads there are bad at all. The only thing I don't like about California roads are the cement grooved freeways. I hate those because it makes the steering wheel move around in your hands and tracking difficult.

For what it's worth, Minnesota also has bad roads. Some of our lakes are actually potholes that haven't been filled yet.


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## ttownfeen

Pennsylvania?


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## luv2bebrown

The anti-cheesehead said:


> For what it's worth, Minnesota also has bad roads. Some of our lakes are actually potholes that haven't been filled yet.


the stretches of road that are comprised of completely new sections of road are excellent.

its only when they repair the roads in patches that things keep getting messed up.


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## soup or man

How are California's freeways bad? We have bad traffic yes. But not bad freeways.


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## sbarn

nomarandlee said:


> I would think it would a northern state with lots of ice and bad winter conditions.


Agreed... Cali roads are nothing compared to some places I've seen in the upper midwest, NYC, etc...


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## firmanhadi

New York highways are really bad. Even Fidel Castro said the roads in Cuba are better


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## CborG

The Netherlands have the densest highwaynetwork in the world, 2350km highway on 40.000km2 land with 16,3 million people.


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## DrJoe

Thats not really saying much considering how small the country is.


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## SoHo~

I dont see why ppl keep saying interstates sucks , They dont . US has the best highway systems in the world !!! we can drive from east coast to west coast !!! , you can go anywhere by car !!


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## tommygunn

SoHo~ said:


> I dont see why ppl keep saying interstates sucks , They dont . US has the best highway systems in the world !!! we can drive from east coast to west coast !!! , you can go anywhere by car !!


Not for much longer by the look of the oil situation.


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## ttownfeen

Interstates are expensive to maintain. Plus, the whole bidding-process brings highway maintainance and construction in most areas of the US to a snail's pace. What the country desperately is a revitalized network of regional rail systems.

I don't understand where these car hogs get the idea that driving is fun. I hate driving! You sit in a car for hours and hours while your eyes die from looking at highway and your body cramps from sitting and sitting and sitting. At least on a train or plane you can walk around when it suits your fancy.

_Edited because I have brain-to-typing-finger issues._


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## FM 2258

ttownfeen said:


> Interstates are expensive to maintain. Plus, the whole bidding-process brings highway maintainance and construction in most areas of the US to a snail's pace. What the country desperately is a revitalized network of regional rail systems.
> 
> I don't understand where these car hogs get the idea that driving is fun. I hate driving! You sit in a car for hours and hours while your eye die from looking a highway and your body cramps from sitting and sitting and sitting. At least on a train or plane you can walk around when it suits your fancy.


haha..........there are people who love driving like myself. I love it. I got to drive for 6 hours on Interstates 20 and 35 over the weekend and I loved every minute of it. I had my favorite relaxing music going, the A/C running cold and just took in the sights and sounds of the Interstate. One thing I love about Interstates is that you get to see alot of large trucks. 

Interstates are so relaxing. I love crusing on them at 85mph. People think driving is boring but it amazing that the road could be so smooth and efficient that travelling long distance actually has a chance to be boring. Back in the horse and buggy days there was no time to be bored because there was alot of shit you had to deal with like mosquitos, mud, river crossings, attacks, nasty bugs, heat, cold and whatever else. Now we can sit in a comfortable seat with climate control, and we can cross rivers, creeks, lakes, rough terrain all the while bugs giving us trouble when they hit our windshield. 

I love driving, it's so much fun. In Texas, driving on Interstates and Farm Roads are the best.


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## Guest

One word to describe this: amazing


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## yako

What's the meaning of the prefix SR (like in SR55) as seen on the pics from LA above?


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## PotatoGuy

yako said:


> What's the meaning of the prefix SR (like in SR55) as seen on the pics from LA above?


SR = State Route which basically means its not an interstate, it was built and is run by the state and local transportation authorities (in this case the OCTA and CalTrans)


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## Jonesy55

SoHo~ said:


> I dont see why ppl keep saying interstates sucks , They dont . US has the best highway systems in the world !!! we can drive from east coast to west coast !!! , you can go anywhere by car !!


Can you get into Area 51 or drive up to Point Barrow using the interstates? The US has a good road network but I don't see why you all think it's so different to that in other countries.


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## Naga_Solidus

Gotta love those carpool lanes.

Does anyone have pics of The Harbor Freeway (I-110), with its elevated carpool lanes and kick-ass interchange with the Century Freeway (I-105)?


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## PotatoGuy

*Here ya go Naga:*


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## Naga_Solidus

^^

That stuff is what makes our country great.


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## mr_storms

Wait....i think i saw a caternary pylon in the first photo which would mean.....public transportation in la??????????????wtf? Lol jk but nice photos


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## FM 2258

I find it interesting that California puts barbed wire around some of their highway signs.


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## I-275westcoastfl

The first pics of Tampa look outdated they widened and still are widening that area.


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## PotatoGuy

i hate outadated pics... they should update all pictures on the internet once a week


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## Brighter Hell

> One thing I love about Interstates is that you get to see alot of large trucks.


there's nothing i hate more about highway driving than big trucks. especially when they try to pass each other on 4-lane highways and use the fast lane! i like driving but there are definite drawbacks.



> Now we can sit in a comfortable seat with climate control, and we can cross rivers, creeks, lakes, rough terrain all the while bugs giving us trouble when they hit our windshield.


sounds like train travel to me  north america needs some decent high speed rail systems that would make freeways look antiquated. that would kick ass.


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## TO_Joe

This thread is just sad.

Highways are just ugly and monotonous pieces of concrete that takes up lots of room, heats up and pollutes the city, interferes with social interaction, and is the most fucked up and wasteful way to transport people in urban areas with millions of people. 

It is even a stupid way to transport people in intercity areas within a 500 mile radius -- like the US Northeast, LA to SFO, Dallas to Austin, Chicago to Detroit / St. Louis / Indianapolis / Milwaukee corridors.

None of the shots show the reality of life on many of the highways for most people. 

Ever been on the 405, I-10 or 110 at rush hour in Los Angeles? And rush hour means 3 pm - 7 pm and an equivalent morning one. Or even around Chicago -- I-88 on a Saturday afternoon going outbound towards Naperville? Or the tolls from Philadelphia to NYC on I-95 and crossing the Holland Tunnel taking 2 hours and over $15 while enshrouded in smog with signs urging you not to drive because of high ozone alert in July?

I haven't even started on the maintenance of some of the highways. They have much improved since the really miserable days of the mid-80s, particularly in locales like Buffalo and the North-East. But there are still pothole-ridden traps around everywhere.

I mean I think the US Interstate system is an impressive piece of engineering and helped the US develop. 

But it causes problem as well. While it may be nice if you are a teenager and take your parent's car for a spin after school, but when you are FORCED to commute and drive in heavy traffic for hours day in and day out in the same route whether you like it or not to get to work (never mind the pollution, the costs, insurance, bad drivers, exposure to accidents).

Sorry man. Perhaps I'm just too old. I'd rather be chauffered in an efficient train or bus and walk around in my neighbourhood to meet friends.


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## great prairie

YOU SO SMART DUDE !!!!!!!!!!


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## TexasBoi

**** that. I love driving on interstates. Some great experiences on long trips driving on these things. I enjoyed every picture that has been posted so far especially the Socal and Texas pictures.


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## OettingerCroat

could one of you guys show me that tolled freeway in the LA area? i went to LA to go to laguna beach this summer and as i drove around LA i was surprised when i found a toll plaza, followed by an extremely well-maintained, beautiful stretch of motorway  it was smooth as glass

if anyone can post those pics I'd sincerely appreciate it


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## chris9

SoHo~ said:


> I dont see why ppl keep saying interstates sucks , They dont . US has the best highway systems in the world !!! we can drive from east coast to west coast !!! , you can go anywhere by car !!


We have one of the best systems, and certainly the largest, but in terms of quality Germany has the best. Their higways are smooth as a table, last twice as long, have automated traffic monitoring and electronic signs providing dynamic speed limits (only in certain areas or when necessary, otherwise no speed limit) and/or advance warning of congestion or fog, reflector guide posts at 50 meter intervals, emergency telephones at 2 km intervals, pre-designated detour routes to facilitate emergency closures and drivers that actually know how to drive and smart laws that make it easier to do so (not to mention Wildlife protection fencing and crossover tunnels).


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## OettingerCroat

ill give the US credit in that it has spanned the entire continent with motorways. a feat not easily achieved.

its just that those motorways are of poor quality. rough, ugly, outdated.

but their sheer size is very impressive nonetheless


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## TO_Joe

TexasBoi said:


> **** that. I love driving on interstates. Some great experiences on long trips driving on these things. I enjoyed every picture that has been posted so far especially the Socal and Texas pictures.


I don't have a problem on the occasional trip across the country or to see relatives in another state. 

Overall the system is impressive. As with the engineering too -- like Glenwood Canyon in Colorado on I-70, or the clever use of topography in LA downtown interchanges, etc.

But the reality is that most of the time is spent stuck in traffic commuting along the same stretches of highways in urban areas, to buy groceries, etc. 4 times per day. 85% of it in a wasteful single driver mode. Check out the Bureau of Transport Statistics on their household trip survey. In the meantime, only 4% of the urban passenger-miles travel are by public transport. 

That's where the waste is. And in urban areas, they just become ugly polluting scarring concrete monstrosities.


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## FM 2258

TO_Joe said:


> I don't have a problem on the occasional trip across the country or to see relatives in another state.
> 
> Overall the system is impressive. As with the engineering too -- like Glenwood Canyon in Colorado on I-70, or the clever use of topography in LA downtown interchanges, etc.
> 
> But the reality is that most of the time is spent stuck in traffic commuting along the same stretches of highways in urban areas, to buy groceries, etc. 4 times per day. 85% of it in a wasteful single driver mode. Check out the Bureau of Transport Statistics on their household trip survey. In the meantime, only 4% of the urban passenger-miles travel are by public transport.
> 
> That's where the waste is. And in urban areas, they just become ugly polluting scarring concrete monstrosities.



Well ugly is a matter of opinion. Also it depends on where you are. Some people might think Interstate 90 through Gary, Indiana is ugly (I think industrial areas are beautiful) while Interstate 89 going through Vermont is beautiful. 

There's something about Interstates or freeways that make you feel like you're in a different dimension. It's a cool feeling because it seems like you're removed from the rest of the area. An Interstate can go through the worst, most violent neighborhood in a city but from the freeway it's like you're not even part of it. 

I might be crazy but I drive on Interstate 35 in Austin every day and I always have this sense of appreciation and gratitude to be able to drive on a freeway every day. I mean, I can go fairly fast, exit when I want, stop if I really need to, listen to what I want to listen to, go where I want and control how fast I get there. 

Freeway systems might not seem efficient to the vast majority of people but when it comes to the individual it's very efficient to travel by car. Instead of waiting for a train or bus, I'm already in my car and I can go exactly where I want to. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a high speed light rail systems grow in the United States but freeways are so much fun to drive on. It's suprising to see how so many people take roads for granted. 

I was talking to a girl and she said she lived by Interstate 35 in Minnesota and I told her "oh, that's cool, so you live right across the street, I'm just on the west side of 35 and you're just on the east." Not sure how we got into talknig about that but I remember that conversation.


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## chris9

FM 2258 said:


> Freeway systems might not seem efficient to the vast majority of people but when it comes to the individual it's very efficient to travel by car. Instead of waiting for a train or bus, I'm already in my car and I can go exactly where I want to. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a high speed light rail systems grow in the United States but freeways are so much fun to drive on. It's suprising to see how so many people take roads for granted.


I respect your point of view, but people in different parts of the U.S. approach problems differently. I used to live in the South four 4.5 years (I got southern education ), land down there is cheap, municipalities sprawl over large distances and higways seem not only the best means of transportation, but sometimes are the only means of transportation. In heavily congested and urbanized north-east megalopolis area populated by over 40 million people with New York Metro alone contributing 22 million highways are often the worst means of moving from point a to b. Hellish traffic jams oftean lead to so called "gridlock alerts" in NYC area - all electronic signs urge people to use public transit. I have a car and I often use it, but I have to say that in metro NYC the most efficient means of transit is public transit, we have 25 subway lines, metropolitan commuter trains and one high speed rail line, which already move over 12 million people daily, they decrease the amount of time it takes to get to work, pollution and country's dependency on oil reserves, not to mention environmental impact.


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## sonysnob

I think the Interstate network is generally underrated here on SSC. Sure, it has flaws, but there seems to be some misconceptions that all interstate highways are simply aweful in quality. Now I have been on some absolutely terrible interstates over the years, but generally, there quality is pretty good, and they are well built. It is a very extensive network, that generally performs its function very well.

Cheers.


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## edolen1

chris9 said:


> We have one of the best systems, and certainly the largest, but in terms of quality Germany has the best. Their higways are smooth as a table, last twice as long, have automated traffic monitoring and electronic signs providing dynamic speed limits (only in certain areas or when necessary, otherwise no speed limit) and/or advance warning of congestion or fog, reflector guide posts at 50 meter intervals, emergency telephones at 2 km intervals, pre-designated detour routes to facilitate emergency closures and drivers that actually know how to drive and smart laws that make it easier to do so (not to mention Wildlife protection fencing and crossover tunnels).


If you think all those things are a luxury, I dread to think what kind of highways you drive on.. :S

Yes, sure, some of the solutions on German highways are not seen elsewhere and are quite good, but most are pretty much everyday solutions found in a lot of countries.. At least of the ones you posted..

Anyway, I have to agree with most on here that the Interstate system sure is impressive, I only hate the fact that concrete is more common than asphalt. Sure it has its pros, but visually and otherwise I find asphalt much more pleasing..


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## bay_area




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## great prairie

TO_Joe said:


> But the reality is that most of the time is spent stuck in traffic *commuting* along the same stretches of highways in urban areas, *to buy groceries, etc. 4 times per day.*


Yes everyone uses interstates to commute to grocery stores 4 times a day. :|


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## TheOldMan

Anyone got pics of Capital Beltway/95 495 around DC. probibly the closest thing to CA and west coast freeways in the North East. MD and VA do a wonderful job with Freeways and roads.They are always wide where they need to be, clean, smooth with good signage. 

At the other end of the spectrum is Pennsylvania-the worst roads in the country. only a total of 4 lanes on I-76 thru Philadelphia. Unbelieveable. i cannot believe Pennsylvania neglects the roads soo much. anyway...

So, if you think your interstates are bad, they are paradise compared to PA freeways.


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## TheOldMan

The worst State in the country with respect to freeways, roads and highways is Pennsylvania-it is not even close. travelling on Pennsylvania roads is like travelling back thru time. all freeways, bridges and roads need to be widened, resurfaced, repaired and or replaced. 

I 76 thru philly-4 lanes, should be at least 8. ditto for pretty much every freeway in the Philadelphia metro area. i cant tell you how many back roads and small streets still have one-lane bridges. PENNDOT pay attention-improve the roads.

enough said !!


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## mr_storms

california is pretty good compared to the ones ive ridden on in the east coast, but i havent been on roads in all states so i cant compare that much.


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## mr_storms

Pics of the 8 lane scenic route that is California Interstate 280 between San Francisco and San Jose, which passes amazing scenery along the way:








































Why its very hard to keep your eyes on the road here  (these pics all take from the freeway or the "scenic view points" off to the side)


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## zergcerebrates

California


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## PotatoGuy

OettingerCroat said:


> could one of you guys show me that tolled freeway in the LA area? i went to LA to go to laguna beach this summer and as i drove around LA i was surprised when i found a toll plaza, followed by an extremely well-maintained, beautiful stretch of motorway  it was smooth as glass
> 
> if anyone can post those pics I'd sincerely appreciate it



That i know of there are 4 toll freeways in Orange County, the 241, 261, 133, 73 and then theres 91 freeway FasTrak lanes... which one are you refering to?? What city was it near or w/e?


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## OettingerCroat

im sorry, im a NorCal ignoramus  really sorry.

up here there isnt a single tolled freeway. could you plz post some pics of any of these highways?


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## great prairie

http://www.texasfreeway.com/Dallas/photos/190/190_driving_tour.shtml

Here is a tollway in North Dallas. They are kinda old pictures(2001) and the green dotted line before the start here arrow is now open. Named after the first Bush not the second..

Picture of the suburb I grew up in....











http://www.texasfreeway.com/Houston/photos/bw8/bw8.shtml

Houston outer loop tollway.


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## OettingerCroat

^^ i meant from LA/OC but thx a lot anyways


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## PotatoGuy

*Hmm.. well here's the SR-73 which runs through South Western Orange County:*











































































*..and this is the SR-241, which runs through the eastern Orange County, through the Santa Ana mountains* ... these pictures are pretty crappy..


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## PotatoGuy

The green ones are the toll roads, red ones are freeways and the yellow ones are highways (large/important streets)


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## OettingerCroat

^^^^^^ thx a lot guys


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## XCRunner

Manbil said:


> How about Illinois? hno: :no:


The highways in the Chicago area definetly can't handle the volume of traffic and are ALWAYS under construction, but this can probably be said of any big city. I haven't driven much outside of the area, so I wouldn't know what the roads in most other states are like.


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## Zaqattaq

ttownfeen said:


> Pennsylvania?


No


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## Jayayess1190

*Michigan*


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## gohorns

TheOldMan said:


> The worst State in the country with respect to freeways, roads and highways is Pennsylvania-it is not even close. travelling on Pennsylvania roads is like travelling back thru time. all freeways, bridges and roads need to be widened, resurfaced, repaired and or replaced.
> 
> I 76 thru philly-4 lanes, should be at least 8. ditto for pretty much every freeway in the Philadelphia metro area. i cant tell you how many back roads and small streets still have one-lane bridges. PENNDOT pay attention-improve the roads.
> 
> enough said !!



I completely agree. PA has some of the worst highways. Travelling back in time? Hey i live in central PA and I can attest to the whole travelling back in time thing. And all the people screaming out texas (some of whom have probably never even been to the state or used its highways) are simply wrong. Texas has pretty good highways (houston is crazy and easy to get lost in and traffic sucks but you can't blame the highways for the city being so big and sprawling). And I'm sure california isn't so bad either...i've never been there so I can't really say.

cheers


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## Jonesy55

How are the roads in Alaska?


----------



## TheOldMan

The best freeways and highways in this country are in MD, VA and CA. although traffic is bad in CA, they have the best highway/freeway system in my opinion. They are designed well, maintained well and are very rarely in disrepair. Texas roads are also not bad. MD and VA have by far the best freeways on the East Coast. Again, all major freeways are nice and wide, with 8+ lanes in metro areas and the two states are not afraid to take initative to widen roads when it is necessary (Capital Beltway 95/495 may soon be widened to 10-12 lanes in some locations). 

I live just outside of Phila, PA, and i hate travelling on the freeways here. so anybody that says CA and Texas are bad, come to Pennsylvania and get to know what "bad roads" really means. just have your car's suspension checked out prior to making the trip. Its like traveling off road!! Those states are like thousands of years ahead of PA with respect to highways.


----------



## Bond James Bond

OettingerCroat said:


> alaska?


Yeah, I vote for Alaska!


----------



## Nainawaaz

I have to go with W. virginia.


----------



## Gendo

I-80 in Illinois. It's not just the conjestion. The pavement should have been replaced a decade ago.


----------



## TexasBoi

Neither Texas or California should be at the top of the list.


----------



## sequoias

I vote....I don't know.  As long it's usable, and smooth...I'll be fine. I remember going on I-80 from near bay area going on way to Vallejo, that huge "hump" sure scared me and it felt like I'm flying off the freeway! I think they got it fixed recently, not sure.


----------



## e2ksj3

TheOldMan said:


> The best freeways and highways in this country are in MD, VA and CA. although traffic is bad in CA, they have the best highway/freeway system in my opinion. They are designed well, maintained well and are very rarely in disrepair. Texas roads are also not bad. MD and VA have by far the best freeways on the East Coast. Again, all major freeways are nice and wide, with 8+ lanes in metro areas and the two states are not afraid to take initative to widen roads when it is necessary (Capital Beltway 95/495 may soon be widened to 10-12 lanes in some locations).
> 
> I live just outside of Phila, PA, and i hate travelling on the freeways here. so anybody that says CA and Texas are bad, come to Pennsylvania and get to know what "bad roads" really means. just have your car's suspension checked out prior to making the trip. Its like traveling off road!! Those states are like thousands of years ahead of PA with respect to highways.


Maryland maybe, but Virginia uhhh, I don't know about that one, lol. In Northern Virginia, they've always done a good job of keeping the roads maintained, but in Norfolk and the Hampton Roads area, I-64 is in terrible shape. 

My last visit on I-95/395 in Northern Va, I felt like I was hitting speed bumps every minute or so. And for the life of me, I don't know why VDOT hasn't at least widen I-95 to 8 lanes (not including the HOV) at least from Stafford County to the Beltway, since the road serves both commuters and out of town travelers. It can literally take 2 1/2 hours to drive from Woodbridge to Stafford (15 mile drive) on both 95 and Route 1 during holidays.


----------



## asfar001

californias highways really suk


----------



## centreoftheuniverse

Can someone tell me what they're doing with that humongous construction crater near I-80 just south of Chicago? I was driving through this past summer and couldn't believe how big it was and couldn't figure out what it was for. It looked like those mining pits you see on TV.

Bad roads/highways: northern NJ especially Jersey City.


----------



## RAS85

Michigan


----------



## sonysnob

^ I agree. Though Michigans highway network is pretty extensive, some of there interstates really are bone rattlers. Fortunately they seem fairly eager to to improve there networks condition.


----------



## Indica

When I get onto any freeway in LA here, and there is no traffic, then I think about how nicely built our system here is. Its when there is traffic that is really gets awful. The roads here are OK, some areas are new, and others have been revamped. There are still plenty of places that need repair though. Especially the streets and boulevards here.. If the system here had wider lanes, and more of them, it would be a lot more manageable.

Roads here tend to deteriorate real quickly, but we have the most registered cars in the Country, and thats not including the non-registered cars (which there are a lot of!)
plus all the tourists, and foreigners.. Cali had a policy for a while to give licenses to you even if you didnt have citizenship, ahem...


----------



## dhuwman

I've always thought Californian highways were one of the best in America...


----------



## Czas na Żywiec

For the highways I've driven on, they were really nice. But I heard from an uncle that I-70 in Kansas was west to east was a nightmare. I don't know from experience, but I really like I-80 (even though Nebraska goes on forever) so I don't think I'd take any other route.


----------



## LSyd

ironchapman said:


> Birmingham's are pretty bad. I don't know about the rest of Alabama's, though.


Alabama's are pretty bad, but being steadily improved; i've only been here about 2 1/2 years, and there's a huge difference.

Tennessee's are horrible, they're always under reconstruction.

North Carolina's are nice.

Florida's aren't too hot. 

Georgia's are pretty good, but the areas around the exits are scary. CUE "DUELING BANJOS!!!"

Maryland was o.k.

-


----------



## J_Taylor

California highways are ok at best out side of urban areas..
inside urban areas they are "Teh Suck!"


----------



## warwickland

the lower midwest has problems with a lot of freezing and thawing, versus more continious freezing conditions further north and less freezing conditions in the south. id nominate MO. but everyone is bitching about their respective states. so then again...if i were to guess, i'd say probably michigan.


----------



## mopc

Are there many poorly kept roads in the US?


----------



## CHASE DVHS

*Phoenix Arizona Traffic*

TRAFFIC TODAY IN PHOENIX ARIZONA! DECEMBER 22, 2005

http://www.az511.com/Images/cameraimages/cameras/camera171.jpg[/img

[IMG]http://www.az511.com/Images/cameraimages/cameras/camera179.jpg


----------



## Talbot

it's not that bad, although it is 11:30 at night.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

looks like typical traffic at those hours


----------



## mr_storms

ya. I dont get the purpose of this thread. Lots of places have traffic like that


----------



## Frungy

The poster is linking to live shots, so if you're reading this at 12 PM Phoenix time, it'll show the traffic at that moment.


----------



## mopc

Major pics, I understand all about Pheonix traffic now...


----------



## CHASE DVHS

Didn't realize I was linked to real time. Oh well you should have seen the traffic yesterday!


----------



## CHASE DVHS

*More Cams*

Heres some more!!!!


----------



## CHASE DVHS

*More Cams*

Heres some more!!!!


----------



## ♣628.finst

Worst? 

1- Ohio. The worst I had seen.
2- Indiana perhaps.
3- Michigan, Illinois or Nebraska.


----------



## merijanpakistan

I would say, West Virginia.

A whole lot of roads are basically "jeep tracks".
They say here, "You'v gotta have some mud on the tyre".

Except for the interstate, easily, WV.


----------



## Xusein

Nobody said Mass yet? Driving through Boston (even now) is a nightmare! The Big Dig, the crazy interchanges, and the heavy traffic made it one of the worst for me.

In general, Highways in the Northeast are not good though, CT roads are bad also.


----------



## Askal82

^^ When is the underground highway system in Boston will it be totally completed?


----------



## VansTripp

How about highway in Chicago?


----------



## Sexas

No way TX, CA and NY have worst hightway, try LA and MS.


----------



## Stratosphere 2020

Why Louisiana and Mississippi? Because they are poorest states that can maintain their highways? I would think that rich states like Texas, California and New York would provide better quality highways.


----------



## Liam-Manchester

Missouri from my experience, between St Louis and Columbia the surfaces were very poor.


----------



## great prairie

Stratosphere 2020 said:


> Why Louisiana and Mississippi? Because they are poorest states that can maintain their highways? I would think that rich states like Texas, California and New York would provide better quality highways.


Texas, California, and New York have alot more highways to take care of espically Texas. Texas has some of the nicest and some of the worst in the country.


----------



## (roadguy44)

Easily PA and AL, I live in Alabama and let me tell you, the roads suck!


----------



## DBR96A

REGARDING PENNSYLVANIA HIGHWAYS...

http://www.etrucker.com/apps/news/article.asp?id=50570

_On the International Roughness Index, in which lower numbers are better, the commonwealth scored 103, just above the national median of 99, Kirkpatrick says._

_“If you’re a trucker, you’re going to end up in Pennsylvania at some point,” PennDOT’s Kirkpatrick says, adding that his state has the highest Interstate truck use in the Northeast._

Also worth considering is that Pennsylvania has more miles of state-maintained roads than any other state in the U.S. (yes, even more than Texas and California). Whenever you have to do all your resurfacing jobs by yourself, it becomes a lot harder.

Yet another thing to consider: Most of Pennsylvania's Interstates were built before 1975; in fact, four stretches of Interstate were built before there were any Interstate highways. Those stretches include the Pennsylvania Turnpike between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg, I-70 between Washington and New Stanton, I-279/I-376 through Pittsburgh, and I-76 between King of Prussia and Philadelphia. Each of them was built *before 1956.*

Since about 1995, PennDOT has not just been resurfacing their highways; they've been pulling them out of the ground and reconstructing them from the roadbed up, engineering them to modern highway standards (as opposed to 1975 highway standards). Now while this will help dramatically improve the highways' longevity, it's also a lot more expensive and time-consuming than a simple resurfacing. But with the roadbeds as old and beat-up by 18-wheelers as they are (remember, Pennsylvania has the most 18-wheeler traffic in the Northeast), simply resurfacing the highways is like putting a band-aid on a bullet wound. This is why a full-scale reconstruction is in order.

As for the Pennsylvania Turnpike, the tolls were increased so the entire highway from state line to state line can be reconstructed, starting with the original Pittsburgh-to-Harrisburg stretch which has a roadbed that dates back to 1940! The Turnpike reconstruction will involve widening the median, installing new barriers, improving drainage, thickening and reengineering the roadbed, and making it a 6-lane highway near Pittsburgh, Harrisburg and Philadelphia.

So for as much as people like to criticize Pennsylvania's highways, it's not like they aren't making improvements on them. I think a lot of this "worst highways" talk is more perception than reality. Everyone talks about the "pavement change" at the state line, but near the state lines aren't the only places where Pennsylvania has highways. Pennsylvania is reconstructing their highways piece by piece. It'll take time. Rome wasn't (re)built in a day.


----------



## davidwei01

New York City


----------



## TexasBoi

davidwei01 said:


> New York City


That's not a state


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Stratosphere 2020 said:


> Why Louisiana and Mississippi? Because they are poorest states that can maintain their highways? I would think that rich states like Texas, California and New York would provide better quality highways.


Texas highways are good quality but the roads and avenues arent.


----------



## Don Pacho

(roadguy44) said:


> Easily PA and AL, I live in Alabama and let me tell you, the roads suck!


no offence but once you enter Florida from Alabama you notice a better pavement right away.


----------



## r2

georgia: has really nice freeways urband AND rural

florida: varies - either they're state of the art or left-overs from 40 years ago

north carolina: has really nice interurban interstates but they cant seem to figure out how to build a proper urban freeway network

indiana: the tollroad between chicago and ohio is nice

pennsylvania: hopeless

new jersey: new jersey is just plain ugly and so are the freeways

maryland: comprehensive, loads of capacity and well maintained

washington state: stunning scenery and the freeways that have been updated incorporate architectural elements and public art which is awesome but I-5 through the center of the city looks like a forboding concrete pit ... because it is a forboding concrete pit

chicago (havent been anywhere else in IL): chicagoland freeways must have been the shit when built 30 or 40 years ago but are now decidedly out of date and over capacity

minnesota: excellent, rural and urban.

south carolina: yeesh, nuff said. and whatever you do, dont get off I95 to take a wizz unless youre at a rest area

louisiana: terrible ... wierd, unattractive, under capacity, poorly laid out but the state is geographically challenged so i understand.

new york: i have seen but not driven on the freeways in new york city and, that said, i will never NEVER drive on any freeway in new york city

ohio: i've seen worse and i've seen better.

west virginia: i've only been there once and the interstates were'nt bad ... none of the roads were bad actually

virginia: this is my home state so bear with me while i rant. virginia, more than any state i've lived in, seems singularly incapable of or unwilling to build the freeway AND highway infrastructure necessary to service both urban and rural areas alike. most of the state's rural interstate network is approaching gridlock ... try driving from norfolk to washington ESPECIALLY during the summer. richmond is the only metro area in the commonwealth to have the freeway network and capacity that it needs. both the NOVA and SEVA urban areas are seriously SERIOUSLY in need of help. not that the roads are overly unattractive or in especially bad shape ... there is just an amazing lack of capacity given the population of both of those areas.

alaska: there are practically no roads in alaska! beside anchorage and fairbanks, you HAVE to fly to where you're going bc the terrain and climate are so extreme they conspire to make road building virtually impossible.

thats about all i can think of right now.


----------



## NovaWolverine

I agree about SEVA, Nova though, it's really bad, bad in the areas that shouldn't be so bad like woodbridge, stafford and up to springfield, out past fairfax county, the sprawl just sucks they can screw themselves. There are some improvements coming to SEVA and Nova, and the METRO isn't done expanding as it will eventually go to Ft. Belvoir and probably Dulles. Along with more infill stations sooner or later. But the roads themselves are good. 

Michigan and PA have some roads that are in terrible shape. There are places that have congestion and that's an issue, but the roads themselves aren't as bad as Michigan and PA, generally, they're older and in sub par condition. Many of them aren't congested, but it's the condition of them that just suck at places. Richmond does get favored though with infrastructure issues and the roads aren't wide enough in many places, but I think wider roads along with mass transit both need to be aggressively worked on.


----------



## CodyW

I don't know if I would say California (as a state) has the worst.. I know LA has pretty bad highways. The Phoenix area highways are all nice and new. But up until a few years ago I-17 sucked when it got into downtown/south phoenix. So, yeah, I'd have to go with PA!


----------



## miamicanes

Judging from I-20 between Dallas and Shreveport, I-49 between Shreveport and Baton Rouge, I-10 between Shreveport and Jacksonville, and I-95 south to Miami late in 2000...

Texas: awesome.

Louisiana: Some expressway connecting I-20 with I-49 around Shreveport looked brand new and state of the art. I-49 was in great shape. I-10 has seen better days, but was generally OK.

Mississippi and Alabama: very nice, except for a 10 mile section in one of the states (don't remember which) that was being rebuilt. Apparently, the rest was done, and was was quite nice.

Florida: Absolutely, positively the worst roads of the lot. Driving across the border from Alabama to Florida was like driving into a third world country. The shoulders vanished, and the road went from smooth black asphalt to the awful seashell roadway that Florida used to think was a cool 20 years ago... giving way to cracked and heaving concrete slabs somewhere between Pensacola and Tallahassee before improving in Jacksonville. I-95? Antique and grossly inadequate. I don't think I managed to go faster than 45mph until I was about 40 miles south of Daytona. Gridlock the whole f**king way to Miami. Wait, it gets worse. I ended up at I-95 and I-595 at 4:30. *TWO HOURS LATER,* I was home in Coral Gables. It actually took longer to drive 30 miles from Broward to Dade than it took to drive across Mississippi AND Alabama.

Florida does have a few good roads (I-95 through Broward County, most of Orlando's new roads), and just about all the new roads built or rebuilt since 1990 have been great... but god help you if you end up stuck on one of its many outdated antique roadways desperately in need of a bulldozer, 16-laning, and a few Texas-like 6-level stacks (yeah, I got badly spoiled by Texas roads when I was out there. Texas freeways beat Florida's up, down, left, right, and diagonally.

Oh, and northern Florida also had absolutely the _worst_ radio stations of any state I had to drive through. Thank god for Sirius... it's the only thing that makes driving more than a hundred miles from Miami bearable. I think Nebraska and Iowa have better radio stations than northern Florida does.


----------



## nysgreg

*worst highway network within a state*

Some here must be smoking crack... being a military vet I had the opportunity to travel through 42 of the 50 states

Keep in mind here that we are talking about the actual highways conditions not the traffic or the network design... we talking about how often will you need to change your struts after driving in a state

*california??? * not even close to be the worse... I-80 is well maintained from the mountains to the bay area
I-5 is a nice drive from san diego to the northern cali border. I-10 is nice same for I-15

*texas????* get REAL... I-35 even in the urban dallas ft-worth area isn't that bad... san antonio area has nice highways as well. houston also... I-20 is nice and clean..

*Lousiana?* I can't speak for after katrina but before, I-10 was nice.. even through baton roube and N-O... I-49 is nice too

*New York state * has a decent interstate system upstate, I-84, I-87 (both the northway and the thruway) I-90 (thruway) and I-81 are very well maintainted when you consider new york's climate... New York City has the WORST highway system, local roads etc.. THE WORST... take this from a new yoker who drove in boston, chicago, St-louis, LA, DC, miami, RIchmond VA, even in montreal canada and toronto canadac, Detroit, cincinnati, cleveland etc,.... and NYC has the WORST HANDS DOWN!!! but since we talking about states, Upstate roads make up for the fiasco we call road network in NYC

*Pennsylvania* WINS the prize.... I drove I-76 from east to west, and I-80 from ohio to the delaware water gap... and WTF... I wouldn't wanna see what your inner cities highways look like if thats the crap you have in your rural settings.. either PENNDOT is out of money or out of workers... either way, they have alot of work cut out for em!


----------



## LtBk

Florida and some LA freeways from what i remember.


----------



## nysgreg

LtBk said:


> Florida and some LA freeways from what i remember.


florida??? really? most florida highways allow for safe high speed travel which is why the FHP is VERY present on its highway system it patrols. 

you really don't know what a bad highway is if you think florida is the worse

Louisiana? not even close to worse... even the causeway sections of I-10 are well maintained


----------



## sonysnob

I am surprised that Michigan hasn't gotten more votes. This leaves me with a bad impression of the US highways that I haven't driven. I have posted a few photos taken from some Michigan interstates. Bare in mind, not all of there roads are as rough as this, just too many of them are.



]


----------



## LtBk

nysgreg said:


> florida??? really? most florida highways allow for safe high speed travel which is why the FHP is VERY present on its highway system it patrols.
> 
> you really don't know what a bad highway is if you think florida is the worse
> 
> Louisiana? not even close to worse... even the causeway sections of I-10 are well maintained


I'm talking about Los Angeles.


----------



## nysgreg

LtBk said:


> I'm talking about Los Angeles.


los angeles is a CITY not a STATE... if it was a contest between cities, NYC would win HANDS down over ANY CITY


----------



## nysgreg

sonysnob said:


> I am surprised that Michigan hasn't gotten more votes. This leaves me with a bad impression of the US highways that I haven't driven. I have posted a few photos taken from some Michigan interstates. Bare in mind, not all of there roads are as rough as this, just too many of them are.
> 
> 
> 
> ]


I figured michigan would definitely be up there.. but I've never driven in or thru michigan so I couldn't personally judge


----------



## pdxheel

North Carolina


----------



## gronier

*Asphalt highways in the US*

I would like you to post some pictures of some highways in the US that look like the asphalt highways in Europe. It will be a very interesting thread!!
Let's get it started


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

miamicanes said:


> Judging from I-20 between Dallas and Shreveport, I-49 between Shreveport and Baton Rouge, I-10 between Shreveport and Jacksonville, and I-95 south to Miami late in 2000...
> 
> Texas: awesome.
> 
> Florida: Absolutely, positively the worst roads of the lot. Driving across the border from Alabama to Florida was like driving into a third world country. The shoulders vanished, and the road went from smooth black asphalt to the awful seashell roadway that Florida used to think was a cool 20 years ago... giving way to cracked and heaving concrete slabs somewhere between Pensacola and Tallahassee before improving in Jacksonville. I-95? Antique and grossly inadequate. I don't think I managed to go faster than 45mph until I was about 40 miles south of Daytona. Gridlock the whole f**king way to Miami. Wait, it gets worse. I ended up at I-95 and I-595 at 4:30. *TWO HOURS LATER,* I was home in Coral Gables. It actually took longer to drive 30 miles from Broward to Dade than it took to drive across Mississippi AND Alabama.
> 
> Florida does have a few good roads (I-95 through Broward County, most of Orlando's new roads), and just about all the new roads built or rebuilt since 1990 have been great... but god help you if you end up stuck on one of its many outdated antique roadways desperately in need of a bulldozer, 16-laning, and a few Texas-like 6-level stacks (yeah, I got badly spoiled by Texas roads when I was out there. Texas freeways beat Florida's up, down, left, right, and diagonally.
> 
> Oh, and northern Florida also had absolutely the _worst_ radio stations of any state I had to drive through. Thank god for Sirius... it's the only thing that makes driving more than a hundred miles from Miami bearable. I think Nebraska and Iowa have better radio stations than northern Florida does.


Have you even been on I-10 in florida? i drove there in september after katrina when i was moving back to st.petersburg from dallas florida had the best roads of what we drove on. It was smooth black asphalt and the rest stops were probably the nicest and cleanest for the whole trip. I-75 was also the same nice and smooth black ashpalt and I-275 is good until you get into tampa where it is still smooth until you near downtown, traffic is bad and construction too but its changing for the better. In st.petersburg I-275 is still concrete and yet its fairly smooth too. 

Ive never been on I-95 maybe its different on the east coast of florida but on the west coast the highways except for tampa are very good. I forgot to add I-4 its also nice and smooth in florida traffic is the biggest issue but road quality is very good compared to most states.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

US19 these pics are kinda outdated but its all aspalt and with the new overpasses being built its also going to be very modern.


----------



## Nick in Atlanta

@gronier: Do you have some sort of fetish with asphalt highways? Why do you want to see pics of US asphalt highways and who ever said that all highways in Europe were asphalt. Some must be concrete.


----------



## hudkina

In Michigan, asphalt is used as a cheap fix when the concrete wears out.


----------



## gronier

Nick in Atlanta said:


> @gronier: Do you have some sort of fetish with asphalt highways? Why do you want to see pics of US asphalt highways and who ever said that all highways in Europe were asphalt. Some must be concrete.


I love their smoothness and I think they are more beautiful than concrete highways.


----------



## Nick in Atlanta

I'm no tree-hugger, but asphalt is a petroleum byproduct so everytime a road needs asphalt it is sucking up more of that precious oil. However, it is reuseable.

Concrete seems fine to me. Nowadays they can make it with certain additives that makes it as hard and flexible as steel!


----------



## magestom

^^ I agree


----------



## tahk

I'm afraid that asphalt doesn't mean the same for you and me cuz here every single piece of land planned for transit is made with that and I didn't notice anything different on the roads when I was to the US :?


----------



## Rail Claimore

Concrete lasts much longer, but once it goes bad, it can take a while to fix because states are unwilling to come up with money to do a complete fix on long sections of road.


----------



## emutiny

Yea i think concrete highways are only built originally. Then after so many years the concrete is good for they have to repair it with asphalt because putting concrete down would require tearing up highway.


----------



## miamicanes

Well, it's been ~5 years since I drove on I-10, so it was probably redone since my trip. But in October 2000, I-10 in Florida REALLY sucked... especially west of Tallahassee -- no shoulders, original 1960s-vintage narrow rural seashell-paved highway.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

^oh ok 5 years ago i dont doubt it was very rural back then florida has changed and grown so much since then.


----------



## nysgreg

I-275westcoastfl said:


> ^oh ok 5 years ago i dont doubt it was very rural back then florida has changed and grown so much since then.


even the florida of 5 years ago was WAY better than most nothern states..

Florida's oldest highways were built in the 60s... MANY states in the north have highways pre-interstate legislation.

that alone speaks volumes!


----------



## Paddington

New York and Michigan both have roads that are often in disrepair.

Ohio generally has pretty good roads, especially the interstates which are vastly better shape than any of Ohio's neighbors. They tend to be plenty wide, and in good shape for a northern state.

Pennsylvania, Indiana, and Illnois are three states I would rate as mediocre in the construction and quality of their roads.


----------



## sisig

I've never experienced potholes like northern California city streets, although i have also never been to the northeast states.


----------



## cayenne

Why do the Americans call themselves "the greatest country in the world", when they can't even maintain the roads that were paved decades ago?.I have never seen such pothole ridden roads anywhere else in the world.Maybe Africa!.Talk about dodgy infrastructure!.The poor colored folk of New Orleans will tell you a lot about the dam that burst through their town.The Americans build cars stronger than the cardboard palaces that they live in!!.Almost every state in America has dodgy roads.They're no different from any other third world country.


----------



## Paddington

cayenne said:


> Why do the Americans call themselves "the greatest country in the world", when they can't even maintain the roads that were paved decades ago?.I have never seen such pothole ridden roads anywhere else in the world.Maybe Africa!.Talk about dodgy infrastructure!.The poor colored folk of New Orleans will tell you a lot about the dam that burst through their town.The Americans build cars stronger than the cardboard palaces that they live in!!.Almost every state in America has dodgy roads.They're no different from any other third world country.


STFU.


----------



## Jue

cayenne said:


> Why do the Americans call themselves "the greatest country in the world", when they can't even maintain the roads that were paved decades ago?.I have never seen such pothole ridden roads anywhere else in the world.Maybe Africa!.Talk about dodgy infrastructure!.The poor colored folk of New Orleans will tell you a lot about the dam that burst through their town.The Americans build cars stronger than the cardboard palaces that they live in!!.Almost every state in America has dodgy roads.They're no different from any other third world country.


Third world countries don't have extensive freeway networks. The end.


----------



## nysgreg

cayenne said:


> Why do the Americans call themselves "the greatest country in the world", when they can't even maintain the roads that were paved decades ago?.I have never seen such pothole ridden roads anywhere else in the world.Maybe Africa!.Talk about dodgy infrastructure!.The poor colored folk of New Orleans will tell you a lot about the dam that burst through their town.The Americans build cars stronger than the cardboard palaces that they live in!!.Almost every state in America has dodgy roads.They're no different from any other third world country.


_*What is the National Highway System?*

It is approximately 160,000 miles (256,000 kilometers) of roadway important to the nation's economy, defense, and mobility. The National Highway System (NHS) includes the following subsystems of roadways (note that a specific highway route may be on more than one subsystem):

We also made it clear that NHS is not another system of interstate highways. In fact, beyond the interstate segment, NHS consists mostly of existing two-lane roads, and about 98 percent of all roads in NHS already have been built. Yet those roads are vital. *The 256,000 kilometers (km) of NHS include only 4 percent of the nationƒs roads, but they carry more than 40 percent of all highway traffic, 75 percent of heavy truck traffic, and 90 percent of tourist traffic.*_

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/hep10/nhs/
http://www.tfhrc.gov/pubrds/spring96/p96sp2.htm


must be real hard for third world countries to maintain that 3 mile, 2 interchange highway system they have SMH


----------



## gronier

Jue said:


> Third world countries don't have extensive freeway networks. The end.


But developed coutries have their freeway system in good shape.


----------



## sonysnob

gronier said:


> But developed coutries have their freeway system in good shape.


There seems to be a misconception of non-American forumers that the US's highway network is falling apart. It isn't. Lots of routes do need resurfacing, and the network has some real ugly spots, but it is still a very impressive network generally filled with good quality roads that generally well suit there traffic needs.

Cheers.


----------



## Paddington

sonysnob said:


> There seems to be a misconception of non-American forumers that the US's highway network is falling apart. It isn't. Lots of routes do need resurfacing, and the network has some real ugly spots, but it is still a very impressive network generally filled with good quality roads that generally well suit there traffic needs.
> 
> Cheers.


Yup :cheers: 

Ohio probably has thousands of miles of expressways that are in pristine condition, and perhaps 50 or so miles in the downtown areas that are banged up due to heavy traffic, but the folks here will probably fixate on the latter.


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## charitorae

cayenne said:


> Why do the Americans call themselves "the greatest country in the world", when they can't even maintain the roads that were paved decades ago?.I have never seen such pothole ridden roads anywhere else in the world.Maybe Africa!.Talk about dodgy infrastructure!.The poor colored folk of New Orleans will tell you a lot about the dam that burst through their town.The Americans build cars stronger than the cardboard palaces that they live in!!.Almost every state in America has dodgy roads.They're no different from any other third world country.


..Because of course, the greatness of a country is always based on the upkeep and quality of their roads. Right.


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## Saab

cayenne said:


> Why do the Americans call themselves "the greatest country in the world", when they can't even maintain the roads that were paved decades ago?.I have never seen such pothole ridden roads anywhere else in the world.Maybe Africa!.Talk about dodgy infrastructure!.The poor colored folk of New Orleans will tell you a lot about the dam that burst through their town.The Americans build cars stronger than the cardboard palaces that they live in!!.Almost every state in America has dodgy roads.They're no different from any other third world country.


dickhead.


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## firmanhadi

cayenne said:


> Why do the Americans call themselves "the greatest country in the world", when they can't even maintain the roads that were paved decades ago?.I have never seen such pothole ridden roads anywhere else in the world.Maybe Africa!.Talk about dodgy infrastructure!.The poor colored folk of New Orleans will tell you a lot about the dam that burst through their town.The Americans build cars stronger than the cardboard palaces that they live in!!.Almost every state in America has dodgy roads.They're no different from any other third world country.


Yeah, all of us should go to India and learn how they keep their highways and infrastructure in tip-top shape.


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## cayenne

You can fool only some of the people some of the time...How long will the American propaganda machine fool the American people into thinking they're living in the "greatest country in the world"?.This is a country where they nail thin slats of plywood to sheets of cardboard, slap some paint on the cardboard , some plasticky tiles and decorations and call the structure a house for which Americans pay millions of dollars to own.Who's fooling who?.Come a little wind and rain, there goes Mr. and Mrs. America's wordly possessions down the street for all to see!.This is where the Soviets lost out.Their propaganda machine was nowhere near the Americans'.Now it's the Americans turn.The Emperor is fast losing his clothes, it seems!!.Not that i'm gloating.It is unfortunate that it is so.....

This is an example of an indian expressway.Let the picture speak for itself....


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## ChicagoSkyline

cayenne said:


> You can fool only some of the people some of the time...How long will the American propaganda machine fool the American people into thinking they're living in the "greatest country in the world"?.This is a country where they nail thin slats of plywood to sheets of cardboard, slap some paint on the cardboard , some plasticky tiles and decorations and call the structure a house for which Americans pay millions of dollars to own.Who's fooling who?.Come a little wind and rain, there goes Mr. and Mrs. America's wordly possessions down the street for all to see!.This is where the Soviets lost out.Their propaganda machine was nowhere near the Americans'.Now it's the Americans turn.The Emperor is fast losing his clothes, it seems!!.Not that i'm gloating.It is unfortunate that it is so.....
> 
> This is an example of an indian expressway.Let the picture speak for itself....


So what is your point?
That India has better highway condition than US because where you have been and suffer with?
Come on, don't come here bashing away a country where you don't know much and best of all, never driven every part in US, because I can tell you by looking at that pic of yours, even the pavement in Illinois are 10 times better! :sleepy:


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## ChicagoSkyline

sonysnob said:


> There seems to be a misconception of non-American forumers that the US's highway network is falling apart. It isn't. Lots of routes do need resurfacing, and the network has some real ugly spots, but it is still a very impressive network generally filled with good quality roads that generally well suit there traffic needs.
> 
> Cheers.


Thank you!
I can tell you that here in Illinois where I have driven alot on highway and interstate highway between the cities of Illinois. Their condition are very well done until you get to the biggest metro area in Illinois. The condition of chicagoland highway certainly can't be compare to rest part of illinois where highway are tough to maintain, repair or even rebuilt due to the amount of traffic day in and day out. But as you drive out of NE part of metro area, the highway condition are unbelieablily new due and this is the majority case for about 70% of highway that are exlcuding chicago area!


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## Jue

Cayenne, just get out of here. I can make better time on a horse than a car on Mumbai streets. :lol:

Are there any highway reconstruction plans for Chicago? Here in Houston all the highways are being rebuilt and widened one by one.


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## ChicagoSkyline

Jue said:


> Cayenne, just get out of here. I can make better time on a horse than a car on Mumbai streets. :lol:
> 
> Are there any highway reconstruction plans for Chicago? Here in Houston all the highways are being rebuilt and widened one by one.


LOL, I am pretty sure that here in US, we don't allow horse on highway!  

Yea, TONS are going on right about this time of year especially inter city highway! I am living in the burb so whenever there is construction going on, you can be sure the traffic condition is near to the halt to chicago and between! :sleepy: But in order to keep drivers safe and happy(particularly for the people like "CAYENNE"), that is what need to be done almost every year due to the snow.
We do have some widened here in the naperville area due to the dramatic population increase and travlers to chicago on the I-88, I-80 and I-55, i am sure there are also alot going on in other suburban highways toward chicago.
But for chicago, it is quite hard to widen due to restriction to the housing area and industries. 
I know in Houston, highway are very wide and continue to widen,lol! That certainly isn't the case for chicago! :cheers:


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## I-275westcoastfl

cayenne said:


> You can fool only some of the people some of the time...How long will the American propaganda machine fool the American people into thinking they're living in the "greatest country in the world"?.This is a country where they nail thin slats of plywood to sheets of cardboard, slap some paint on the cardboard , some plasticky tiles and decorations and call the structure a house for which Americans pay millions of dollars to own.Who's fooling who?.Come a little wind and rain, there goes Mr. and Mrs. America's wordly possessions down the street for all to see!.This is where the Soviets lost out.Their propaganda machine was nowhere near the Americans'.Now it's the Americans turn.The Emperor is fast losing his clothes, it seems!!.Not that i'm gloating.It is unfortunate that it is so.....
> 
> This is an example of an indian expressway.Let the picture speak for itself....


Hey smart ass do you notice anything about that picture its really hard to find notice the nothingness around the highway and the 7 cars and a bus driving on an almost empty three lane highway, now how about this picture average tampa traffic around 5pm. They are upgrading it because its outdated and you see the traffic it causes its the same kind of highway 6 lanes but notice something maybe um a city around it and the second picture its 8 lane but still you see the point.
















BTW my house is made of concrete blocks so do some research before sayin the whole country does some thing a certain way. Also show me some pictures of the roads in Bangledesh or a major city in India where its a crowded clusterfuck and there are no red lights or lanes, not some rural highway because i can get pictures of a highway outside a major city in florida where its fresh clean asphalt and smooth as can get. See you cant pave over a road when thousands of cars keep going over it we need to maintain an infrastructure closing the lanes makes things worse.


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## ChicagoSkyline

Here are some of the inter city highway, mostly from the burb toward chicago...enjoy! (Notice: no horse was harm in the process of capturing in the photo)  

















Typical rush hour here in naperville towards chicago on I-88 :runaway: 









some minor construction on I-294 during the nice weather season









There u go, my neck of woods,lol

































This is one particular ramp that I use most often to get off I-88, as you can see it being widen even more :runaway: 









I-88 is a toll way, so with the help of I-Pass technology, drivers able to save TONS of tavle time  









:cheers:


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## ChicagoSkyline

Here are some chicago highway, noctice the crowdedness of traffic and surrounding on and off the highway!









Chicago highway system in 1996


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## Jue

Eek, those highways seem rather narrow for all the people that live in Chicago.

I'm used to the titanic concrete eyesores here. We already have two 10-lane ones, a 12-lane one, and are building a 16-lane one. :x


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## ChicagoSkyline

Jue said:


> Eek, those highways seem rather narrow for all the people that live in Chicago.
> 
> I'm used to the titanic concrete eyesores here. We already have two 10-lane ones, a 12-lane one, and are building a 16-lane one. :x


I know,lol! Texas loves everything "BIG", the bigger is better there!  :cheers: 

Here in chicago, we gotta be smart and yet be efficient, so the patience come into play until we get our 12 lanes in every chicago highway! majority of them are around 8-10 lanes. The largest I ever see are 16 lanes in chicago! :runaway:


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## cayenne

I-275westcoastfl.....

I do not know anything about Bangladesh.I live in India.Certain areas in New York city do resemble photos of Bangladesh i have seen.I do plan to visit there sometime soon.

But here is an example of an inner city road/freeways in India....This is in New Delhi/National Capital Region....









Cheers!.....


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## drwho

cayenne> this thread is about US highways _only_ 

you have got warnings before and this is your last time


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## Jue

ChicagoSkyline said:


> I know,lol! Texas loves everything "BIG", the bigger is better there!  :cheers:
> 
> Here in chicago, we gotta be smart and yet be efficient, so the patience come into play until we get our 12 lanes in every chicago highway! majority of them are around 8-10 lanes. The largest I ever see are 16 lanes in chicago! :runaway:


How is Chicago's commuter rail service? I have heard many positive remarks about the rail network there. Over here, I don't think people know what trains are, beyond Thomas the Tank Engine.

Here's the 16-lane behemoth we're building:










All that space in the middle will be lanes. :shocked:


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## ChicagoSkyline

Jue said:


> How is Chicago's commuter rail service? I have heard many positive remarks about the rail network there. Over here, I don't think people know what trains are, beyond Thomas the Tank Engine.
> 
> Here's the 16-lane behemoth we're building:
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> All that space in the middle will be lanes. :shocked:


Yep, with the help of our METRA commuter trains that constantly running in and out between chicago union stations and its distant suburban cities, it has been greatly percieive as best alternative on driving to chicago!
It isn't just cutting down on commuting time, it also saves tons on the gas spending as well!  
I think that chicago region is trying really hard to upgrade its existing railway system. I am hoping something like the bullet train of Tokyo near future! :cheers:


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## Jue

ChicagoSkyline said:


> Yep, with the help of our METRA commuter trains that constantly running in and out between chicago union stations and its distant suburban cities, it has been greatly percieive as best alternative on driving to chicago!
> It isn't just cutting down on commuting time, it also saves tons on the gas spending as well!
> I think that chicago region is trying really hard to upgrade its existing railway system. I am hoping something like the bullet train of Tokyo near future! :cheers:


Oh, that would be incredible!

Do the suburban stations have large "park and ride" lots to accomodate drivers?


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## Saab

Jue said:


> How is Chicago's commuter rail service? I have heard many positive remarks about the rail network there. Over here, I don't think people know what trains are, beyond Thomas the Tank Engine.
> 
> Here's the 16-lane behemoth we're building:
> 
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> All that space in the middle will be lanes. :shocked:


that's awesome kay:


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## ChicagoSkyline

Jue said:


> Oh, that would be incredible!
> 
> Do the suburban stations have large "park and ride" lots to accomodate drivers?


Oh yea, plenty of lots, particularly here in Naperville!
We are in the 2nd stations and the newer one having acres of parking lot just to compensate the riders. and it is this reason some people here still prefer driving, you wonder why,lol!


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## Jue

ChicagoSkyline said:


> Oh yea, plenty of lots, particularly here in Naperville!
> We are in the 2nd stations and the newer one having acres of parking lot just to compensate the riders. and it is this reason some people here still prefer driving, you wonder why,lol!


Haha, it must take a while finding parking.

It would be even funnier if you have mini-skylines of eight-story parking garages.

I don't understand why there's even a debate on which state has the worst highways; it is obviously Louisiana. The days when Louisiana had its highway funding cut off for age-18 drinking took its toll, and the continual battering of hurricanes did the rest. I wonder if all the washed-out pavement and demolished bridges on I-10 have been repaired yet.


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## ChicagoSkyline

Jue said:


> Haha, it must take a while finding parking.
> 
> It would be even funnier if you have mini-skylines of eight-story parking garages.
> 
> I don't understand why there's even a debate on which state has the worst highways; it is obviously Louisiana. The days when Louisiana had its highway funding cut off for age-18 drinking took its toll, and the continual battering of hurricanes did the rest. I wonder if all the washed-out pavement and demolished bridges on I-10 have been repaired yet.


I doubt the multi story parking garages is feasbile here in naperville due to out plenty of open land,lol!
Very true, in and out of of parking lot is problematic here!

For louisiana I-10, would have been the worst but look again, it will be the newest after rebuilt, so what can u say! After all we are in the greatest nation of the world!


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## DrJoe

cayenne said:


> I-275westcoastfl.....
> 
> I do not know anything about Bangladesh.I live in India.Certain areas in New York city do resemble photos of Bangladesh i have seen.I do plan to visit there sometime soon.
> 
> But here is an example of an inner city road/freeways in India....This is in New Delhi/National Capital Region....
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> Cheers!.....
> 
> 
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> [/QUOTE]
> 
> On the surface it looks ok. But where are the shoulders? If your car breaks down or something do you just sit in the middle of the highway? I don't think that flimsy guard rail would stop very much either.


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## Jue

ChicagoSkyline said:


> I doubt the multi story parking garages is feasbile here in naperville due to out plenty of open land,lol!
> Very true, in and out of of parking lot is problematic here!
> 
> For louisiana I-10, would have been the worst but look again, it will be the newest after rebuilt, so what can u say! After all we are in the greatest nation of the world!


That is terribly ironic, getting stuck in traffic trying to leave a parking lot. :lol: Is there commuter bus service too, or just rail?










Pssh, your country has a lot to learn about modern highway design. Also 8 lanes, but much better:


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## TexasBoi

cayenne said:


> You can fool only some of the people some of the time...How long will the American propaganda machine fool the American people into thinking they're living in the "greatest country in the world"?.This is a country where they nail thin slats of plywood to sheets of cardboard, slap some paint on the cardboard , some plasticky tiles and decorations and call the structure a house for which Americans pay millions of dollars to own.Who's fooling who?.Come a little wind and rain, there goes Mr. and Mrs. America's wordly possessions down the street for all to see!.This is where the Soviets lost out.Their propaganda machine was nowhere near the Americans'.Now it's the Americans turn.The Emperor is fast losing his clothes, it seems!!.Not that i'm gloating.It is unfortunate that it is so.....
> 
> This is an example of an indian expressway.Let the picture speak for itself....


That's nice that your country can keep up with the very few amount of freeways compared to the United States. The majority of our roads look like that and even better. But we have more to deal with thus we can't please everybody. The shit is not cheap. You're comparing apples to oranges.


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## ChicagoSkyline

^^^^
True, true~!LOL
Traffic jam on the highway, traffic jam off the highway in the train station parking lot,lol! Awkwardly efficient!

Just to let you know that the word "bus" in the chicago suburb doesn't exist,lol!  
Or at least, no one is really give a damn if there is even one around....take great patience to wait for it to come near you!
In the chicago land area, commuter bus is another story tho!

Yea, India has a lot to learn about the great highway systems!
At least the true "high" way don't have scenes of scooters snaking around with the cars that are running at least 65 miles/hr. lol! :cheers:


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## Jue

Ah, I see. Over here, since nobody knows what "train" means, the highways have dedicated bus/carpool lanes in the middle:










I guess buses here serve the same function as rail in Chicago. The annoying thing about buses is, when on a regular street, every time they stop they cause a traffic jam on the right lane. :lol:


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## ChicagoSkyline

Jue said:


> Ah, I see. Over here, since nobody knows what "train" means, the highways have dedicated bus/carpool lanes in the middle:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess buses here serve the same function as rail in Chicago. The annoying thing about buses is, when on a regular street, every time they stop they cause a traffic jam on the right lane. :lol:


LOL, pretty much it!  
They all looks good one way, yet ugly the other!
That is cool, how the bus even run as far as houston suburbs! I like it, another cheaper way for commuting!
So no train at all between houston downtown and its suburbs?


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## ChicagoSkyline

BTW, I see you also have been to shanghai. I am also very impress with its new high speed rail! That is another reason why chicago metra needs major upgrade! :cheers:


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## Jue

ChicagoSkyline said:


> LOL, pretty much it!
> They all looks good one way, yet ugly the other!
> That is cool, how the bus even run as far as houston suburbs! I like it, another cheaper way for commuting!
> So no train at all between houston downtown and its suburbs?


No trains. The buses run out to about 20 miles from the city center, about the distance from Oakbrook Terrace to downtown. These are express buses from park-and-ride lots to downtown. Chicago's disadvantage is that downtown is located on a lake, with all the suburbs in the west, increasing commuting distances.


> BTW, I see you also have been to shanghai. I am also very impress with its new high speed rail! That is another reason why chicago metra needs major upgrade!


I am from Shanghai. All my family is there. I myself am often there, though currently working in Texas. The only "high speed" rail there is the maglev; regular metro trains aren't that fast.


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## LeCom

Burnout 3 said:


> New York because the highways are outdated.


All I know is that when you leave New Jersey and drive by the "Welcome to New York [state]" sigh, the roads automacically become rougher and bumpier. As of the NYC highways, the elevated ones are so old and rusted they're scary just to look at.


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## ChicagoSkyline

Here are some Chicago highways, as you can see that it takes guts and wizdom to block off few lanes for construction , not an easy thing for major rebuilt and repairment, it is amlost the case for every major metro cities in US :

Here is the witness of toll before the "I-Pass" was introduced, pain!

























This one you can see the "chap" on the surface, thanks for the snow, salt and the snow removal truck...








































































:sleepy:


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## ChicagoSkyline

Jue said:


> No trains. The buses run out to about 20 miles from the city center, about the distance from Oakbrook Terrace to downtown. These are express buses from park-and-ride lots to downtown. Chicago's disadvantage is that downtown is located on a lake, with all the suburbs in the west, increasing commuting distances.
> 
> I am from Shanghai. All my family is there. I myself am often there, though currently working in Texas. The only "high speed" rail there is the maglev; regular metro trains aren't that fast.


Yep, houston is geographically more feasible for buses than chicago!
cool, so you from shanghai! It is a city with great advancement!


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## I-275westcoastfl

cayenne said:


> I-275westcoastfl.....
> 
> I do not know anything about Bangladesh.I live in India.Certain areas in New York city do resemble photos of Bangladesh i have seen.I do plan to visit there sometime soon.
> 
> But here is an example of an inner city road/freeways in India....This is in New Delhi/National Capital Region....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!.....
> Oops i meant India i dunno what i was thinking anyway yea in India that still looks like the outskirts of the city i dont know why you said inner city but then i found a few pictures of some delhi highways anyway they look fairly good except for the first picture but the highways have no or little of a center divider, no break down lanes, etc overall india has nice highways but i cant see how they compare to american ones.
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> Tampa pop 400,000 and St.Petersburg, FL pop 300,000
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## ChicagoSkyline

^^^
Nice pics!









I still remember that I drove over this bridge during my trip to Florida!
It was unbelieable sight! :runaway: :cheers:
Oh, the year when Ivan invaded :sleepy: !


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## Jue

I remember this bridge is on Interstate 275, but can't recall the exact location. Can you refresh me?


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## I-275westcoastfl

^^ Thats the Skyway Bridge in St.Petersburg,Florida between Pinellas and Manatee Counties








View of St.Pete Beach, etc from bridge








another pic








my favorite








Here is the old one from after the container ship plowed into it paving the way for the new one which is one of the safest from ship collisions and here it is next to the new one.


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## ChicagoSkyline

^^^
Isn't that amazing!
BTW, I LOVE clearwater beach! The sand there is so gorgeous and soft! It is the 2nd best place in Florida after South beach in my top florida destinations!


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## cayenne

Some pics of Mumbai(Bombay)....expressway construction........


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## cayenne

More inner city roads in Bombay......





































Well, i live in Mumbai!!.Ever driven through Flatbush Ave, in Brooklyn, anyone?.The lunar landscape will be a smoother ride, i guarantee you!!


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## I-275westcoastfl

>


Why are the outer two lanes so narrow and inner are wide?



> Well, i live in Mumbai!!.Ever driven through Flatbush Ave, in Brooklyn, anyone?.The lunar landscape will be a smoother ride, i guarantee you!!


Thats great every city has their bad roads im sure in Mumbai too there are some shitty roads i dont know why you keep pulling things about america. Get on topic because for every flaw you point out about american roads i can probably do the same with Indian roads you cant have all roads be in good condition smooth or not its to get people place to place.


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## ChicagoSkyline

Hey Cayenne, thanks for sharing tho, but majority of your posts and pics shouldn't be here in the first place, we all know that mumbai has nice road, so please get back to the topic! We are here for "US states with the worst highways?" Not india and any other countries!


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## cayenne

I think it is fair to say, that the US is no different from any other developed/developing country, in that it has it's share of good and bad roads, rich and poor folks and the great middle class in-between the two, and by calling themselves "the greatest et al" and belittling other nations they are engaging in needless propoganda far more than even the Soviets did and in the process making themselves disliked by a majority of the peoples of the world.It is time the US and it's peoples got 'REAL' and faced the music.Unless ofcourse they want to compare themselves to the unfortunate nations of sub-saharan Africa to feel 'superior' again.I hope the poor displaced peoples of New Orleans are provided shelter and relocated before money is spent on paving new roads.Are roads more important than people?.


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## Jue

How is it propaganda if it is truth? Have you seen what you speak of? You sound like nothing but a pathetic conspiracy theorist in that post.


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## ChicagoSkyline

cayenne said:


> I think it is fair to say, that the US is no different from any other developed/developing country, in that it has it's share of good and bad roads, rich and poor folks and the great middle class in-between the two, and by calling themselves "the greatest et al" and belittling other nations they are engaging in needless propoganda far more than even the Soviets did and in the process making themselves disliked by a majority of the peoples of the world.It is time the US and it's peoples got 'REAL' and faced the music.Unless ofcourse they want to compare themselves to the unfortunate nations of sub-saharan Africa to feel 'superior' again.I hope the poor displaced peoples of New Orleans are provided shelter and relocated before money is spent on paving new roads.Are roads more important than people?.


Do you honestly think that this kind of propoganda posts of yours should even be existing in this thread?
You are the only one here so far that I think has propoganda issues, not US, not anyone, but you! Get fix or be fix, bud! :sleepy:


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## greg_christine

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=10326

Roads In America - The Worst And The Best
Edward Lewis
May 30, 2006

For the second consecutive year and the fifth time in a decade, truckers say Pennsylvania has the worst roads in the country, according to the annual Highway Report Card survey conducted by Overdrive magazine. Overdrive is the nation's leading magazine for owner-operators.

Among the chief complaints: the conditions of the Pennsylvania Turnpike, I-78 and I-80, and poor signage. Owner-operator Bernard Linkhauer says Keystone State highways "will beat and bang you around." The Pittsburgh-area resident says repairs along the turnpike amount to a Band-Aid. "It looks good, and it lasts a little while, but then it's back to square one."

For the second year in a row, the Lone Star State shines with the best roads. Not all truckers agree, though. Texan Judy Selzer disputes Overdrive readers' high praise of Texas highways. "Any time I get on 1-35 to go to San Antonio, [the road is] rough, and it will tear your equipment up," she says.

The Overdrive survey not only ranked roads, but also the drivers who traverse them. Roughly two-thirds of respondents say road rage increased during the past year, with 36 percent calling the jump significant. The worst automobile drivers are in California, followed by Illinois and New York.

Trucker Allen Pickard of the Los Angeles suburb of Glendora agrees with these findings. He blames congestion and the pressure of driving in southern California, where commutes can take hours. "I can imagine how they can get pretty upset," he says.

New Jersey owner-operator Kevin Sweeney says New York and Connecticut drivers are the worst. Stuck in lower New England congestion, they fast become frustrated. "You don't get road rage out in the country," he adds.

When it comes to safety, survey participants reasserted findings from years past - California has the nation's toughest truck inspections, while Alabama has the most lax. California is well-known for its laws regarding trucking, including tough anti-idling penalties. More than 37 percent of respondents placed California tops on inspections; Ohio came in second with 8 percent of participants calling it the toughest state. Alabama, on the other hand, has experienced a shortage of state troopers for several years.

About Overdrive's Highway Report Card More than 300 Overdrive readers responded to the Highway Report Card survey in fall 2005. About 27 percent of respondents deliver in all 48 states, and 57 percent report 21 years or more in the industry. The complete report appears in Overdrive's December issue.

HIGHWAY REPORT CARD 2005

WORST ROADS

1) Pennsylvania
2) Missouri
3) Louisiana
4) Michigan
5) California

BEST ROADS

1) Texas
2) Florida
3) Tennessee
4) Georgia, Ohio (tie)
5) Nevada, Virginia (tie)

WORST HIGHWAY

1) I-10 Louisiana
2) I-44 Missouri
3) I-95 New York

BEST HIGHWAY

1) I-75 Florida
2) I-40 Tennessee
3) I-10 Texas

MOST IMPROVED HIGHWAY

1) I-40 Arkansas
2) I-80 Pennsylvania
3) I-30 Arkansas

WORST AUTOMOBILE DRIVERS

1) California
2) Illinois
3) New York


----------



## godblessbotox

were not the worst drivers just the most animated

-the 4x4 behemoths... those things are flipped around here like bottle caps


----------



## Smelser

FM 2258 said:


> So I'm fine with this idea as long as they don't take an existing free highway and slap toll plazas across all lanes of traffic.



Why not? Why not make all users pay? With modern photo technology there is no need to stop traffic to collects tolls, billings can be mailed out monthly. If all users pay, there is no problem getting the revenue for the improvements you want.


----------



## matthewcs

I think this is the greatest idea I've ever heard of. Normally I whip through the HOV lane without a passenger always looking for cops. If I could pay and do it legally?! omgsh! :dance2:


----------



## Verso

Looks like the Interstates don't whoop ass.  

Sorry, just had to bring it out of the basement.  

Any more pix?


----------



## Verso

Oh lol, only now I noticed how ugly the first part of the first page is! uke: 

Can someone remove this shit?


----------



## Xusein

WTF is on the first page?! uke:


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

The 1st page is Nasty!!!!!!! :runaway: 
Its burns my eyes!! aaaaaahhhhhh :badnews:


----------



## Æsahættr

I <3 it when SSC sucks up _my_ bandwidth!!!


----------



## sequoias

*WA 520 floating bridge nearing end of useful life*

*Doesn't look good there, I hope that bridge won't fall apart too soon before they begin construction on the new bridge in 2009, which is a little too long. More than 100,000 vehicles cross the 4 lane freeway on the average weekday*

Transportation Officials Say 520 Bridge In Jeopardy

June 18, 2006

MEDINA - The aging Evergreen Point floating bridge across Lake Washington needs to be replaced soon, officials said after a weekend inspection of the span.

"This bridge is in jeopardy. This bridge is aging. This bridge needs to be replaced," said Dave Dye, urban corridors administrator with the Washington state Department of Transportation, in a tour with politicians, media and community members.

More than 6,000 feet of cracks in the walls of the bridge were the most obvious signs that the structure, now in its fifth decade, is reaching the end of its useful life.

This past winter, the bridge was closed briefly after being damaged during a windstorm. The bridge was closed again this past weekend for yearly maintenance work. With the span shut down, traffic was snarled on alternative ways to travel between Seattle and its eastern suburbs.

A four-lane and a six-lane replacement bridges are being considered. Current projections estimate the four-lane project would cost between $1.7 billion and $2 billion. The six-lane design would cost between $2.3 billion and $3.1 billion.

The new bridge will be designed to accommodate light rail in the future.

About $1.25 billion has been found to pay for the new bridge. The rest likely will come from a regional tax and toll revenues.

Officials said construction on a new bridge could begin in 2009, with completion predicted by 2015. The new bridge would be built to the north of the current span.


----------



## OettingerCroat

^^ yah lets hope you look a little prettier and drive a little smoother!!!


----------



## Paddington

New York City area:


----------



## -Corey-

Interstate 5-San Diego, CA


----------



## DrJoe

lol, I didn't start this thread but it has me listed as the thread starter and first poster. I guess this and some other thread were merged???


----------



## Aokromes

^^ No, they deleted the 1st posts with some pornographic photos.


----------



## Zargyle

Here is some pictures of Interstate 15 in Salt Lake County, Utah. (Courtesy of AARoads.com)


----------



## Verso

Aokromes said:


> ^^ No, they deleted the 1st posts with some pornographic photos.


Heh, that was some ugly porn...


----------



## -Corey-

Interstate 5- San DIego, CA


----------



## Aquarius

What do you know about the new Tran Texas toll road? any offical thread?


----------



## bay_area

*Lane Map of San Francisco Area Freeways*

Thanks to J Church at SSP
*The Black(and red) Circles denote the number of lanes in that particular spot(both directions)
*The white ovals denote the highway number
We dont have "superwides" I guess-but the network covers a huge area that transports 6 Million cars daily


----------



## Nouvellecosse

Incredible! I especially like the sections that cross the bay. The SF-Oak bayBridge contains about the most impressive section of freeway (and most scenic) u'll find anywhere.


----------



## Mr. Fusion

Freeway revolt!!!

:dance:


----------



## samsonyuen

Cool map. It's similar to Vancouver, not that many in the CBD. Maybe we can do a series of maps like this of other cities?


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

like i said in the other thread 31 lanes on the bay bridge!! :eek2:


----------



## bay_area

The bridge itself is 10 lanes(5 eastbound(lower deck) and 5 westbound(upper deck))




































The Toll Plaza is a monster, traffic can back up for miles on 3-4 different freeways leading to this spot


----------



## desirous

Why is the traffic that bad on the toll plaza? Don't they have electronic tags?


----------



## Minotaur

The Bay Bridge is one of the worst congested bottlenecks in the US. So many cars going through something like 20 toll booths trying to get on a bridge with only five lanes. One car stall at the toll plaza at rush hour and that causes a traffic backup for miles. SF is notoriously freeway unfriendly. Only two freeways cut through the south-south-east of the city. The rest of the city is all street travel.

The worst day to travel by car in or out of San Francisco is the day before Thanksgiving. One time I was in SF trying to get home. It took me 4 hours to get home 25 miles away.


----------



## Æsahættr

I remember, it was in the middle of _March_ and the we waited two hours at that toll booth! And it was snowing! The people actually got out of their cars to touch the snow!


----------



## Boards

Wow. Must be a candidate for world's busiest bridge?


----------



## Yardmaster

Boards said:


> Wow. Must be a candidate for world's busiest bridge?


World's worst green-house disaster bridge?


----------



## Jaxom92

A good way to get the latest news on the viaduct and other Seattle issues is by going to www.seattlechannel.org.


----------



## BoulderGrad

*A Couple Updates*

The language for the ballot that will decide the fate of the Alaskan way Viaduct (well... not really decide, it will show the governor what "Seattleites think of the project" as she put it) has been settled. The ballot will list a yes/no choice for the viaduct, and a yes/no choice for the "tunnel lite" proposal. So in other words, the city could vote that it doesn't want either of the two choices.... After some pressure from governor, the ballot questions will also mention the projected cost of each choice.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003540259_viaduct25m0.html

Another minor development; due to the rise of the "tunnel lite" proposal, a few officials have begun to ask why there is no "viaduct lite" proposal. But doesn't sound like anyones paying much attention to that idea (probably a good thing).


It's just my feeling that this whole process is getting a little embarrassing for the city and state in general. Instead of spending the money to get a group of transportation engineers together with Seattle city planners to properly study all the possible solutions to this problem, they're spending the money on votes that might not matter and lawsuits that might not get filed. Instead of trying to get a smart well thought out decision by people who know what they're doing, they're letting a single city decide what to do with state money, and only letting them pick between two alternatives that obviously (despite all the posturing) don't address all concerns. This is what frustrates me about this country nowadays. Every important but complicated decision turns into a political/PR bitchfest.


----------



## BoulderGrad

A few of the (gag) special interest groups that have popped up in the wake of the vote announcement:

Not another elevated Viaduct:
http://www.noelevated.org/index.html

Friends for a better waterfront
(couldn't find a website for these guys)

No Tunnel Alliance:
http://www.notunnelalliance.com/

Peoples waterfront Coalition:
http://www.peopleswaterfront.org/


----------



## BoulderGrad

From the People's waterfront Coalition (made me chuckle):

For the cost of a tunnel we could:

* Purchase 10,000 helicopters, one for every dozen Viaduct commuters and fly them downtown instead
* Build six more pairs of stadiums
* Write every Viaduct commuter a check for $50,000


----------



## Smelser

BoulderGrad said:


> A few of the (gag) special interest groups that have popped up in the wake of the vote announcement:



How are these "special interest" groups? What financial benefit do these people stand to gain by defeating the proposal?


----------



## hossoso

This has been a hot topic at UW lately, especially in the Urban Studies/Planning classes. The general feeling is that the tunnel would not be so positive for traffic flow but good for the city, especially as we are trying to move away from car culture. Most of the reasoning is based on the "open spaces" theory popularized in the 1980's. I think it should be built (or dug), it is a good project. The Governor and the Mayor should show some backbone on this. It will make the city a better place.


----------



## Mr. Fusion

Smelser said:


> How are these "special interest" groups? What financial benefit do these people stand to gain by defeating the proposal?


Is it not obvious? They want their $50,000 check and a helicopter! :yes:


----------



## rantanamo

If this is a major shipping route, then trucks can't just suck it up. Has to be done in some way shape or form. Long term investment would win out in the tunnel option. Rebuild the viaduct and you're gonna still be wishing for what you could be doing now.


----------



## BoulderGrad

rantanamo said:


> If this is a major shipping route, then trucks can't just suck it up. Has to be done in some way shape or form. Long term investment would win out in the tunnel option. Rebuild the viaduct and you're gonna still be wishing for what you could be doing now.


According to the No Build people (so take it for what its worth) the "frieght" that goes on the Viaduct is just stuff destined for downtown, and makes up only about 4% of the traffic on the viaduct. Most of the container cargo from the port of Seattle goes to either I-5 or I-90.


----------



## BoulderGrad

*People changing minds again*

Noticed 2 articles on the subject today in the Seattle Times. One talking about how both Chopp and Nickels say they would take the surface street option as their second choice (agreement, yay!). And another about a local structural engineer proposing a "much cheaper" (ONLY $1.2 Billion) retrofit of the existing viaduct that would make it earthquake sound. Meanwhile the state is studying the 4 lane tunnel and now a 4 lane elevated highway. 


Surface Street Agreement:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003562086_viaduct08.html

Existing Viaduct Retrofit:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003563083_webviaduct08m.html

I'm hoping the agreement between chopp and nickels persuades the governor to look at the surface street option and they bag the whole vote thing. It worked in San Francisco and Portland, it can work here.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

*"2000m" in Europe vs. "2km" in Australia and Canada*

Have you ever wondered why in Europe motorway signs use metres to indicate the distance to a local exit while in Canada and Australia they exclusively use kilometres if it is 1km or more. 

For instance, this is a pic from Australia posted by a forum member:










And this pic I stole from www.ceskedalnice.cz (Czech Republic):










As you see, the same distance is written diffrerently. What do you think could be the reason for this? 

My hypothesis is simple. Before Canada and Australia converted to metric system, the distances were indicated in miles. Since miles are not conveniently related to shorter units (feet or yards), even local distances are written in miles - ¼ miles, ¾ miles, 1½ miles, etc. I believe after conversion those countries chose to stay with a single unit - km. Europe, on the other hand, converted a very long time ago, so Europeans know how to convert between metres and kilometres quite well  

I personally like the European signage in metres better because it gives me the sense of precision (which might or might not be the case).


----------



## aussiescraperman

why is exit written in english? :dunno:


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Maybe because English is an international language? For an official explanation you have to contact the Czech Ministry of Transport. 

But let's not go off topic please.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

meters give you a somewhat better sense of distances <2km, although it is the same.
I prefer meters up to 2000m, and higher, kilometers. 



> why is exit written in english?


possible because the word východ doesn't make too much sense to foreigners


----------



## Metropolitan

Chris1491 said:


> meters give you a somewhat better sense of distances <2km, although it is the same.
> I prefer meters up to 2000m, and higher, kilometers.
> 
> 
> possible because the word východ doesn't make too much sense to foreigners


Well, the same is true for uscita, ausgang or sortie but while driving in those countries it's never been a problem to adapt... Especially that in general there is an arrow pointing to the exterior leaving no doubt about it !

And by the way, I don't understand why it has to be to local Czech people to adapt rather than to foreign visitors.


----------



## Verso

^ Instead of the word "exit" I'd prefer some illustration, which would represent exit, like in Germany and elsewhere...


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Damn it, I should have thought about picking a different example! :bash:


----------



## Marek.kvackaj

I think in case of Czech republic(EU) is mean that EXIT 2000 m is very close and 
using KM mean that is far away from your position 

Prague 60 km/ Prague part Bohnice 2000 m 
so is using as safety for drivers that they have slow down and start to be carefull


----------



## Matthijs

I guess it's because the 2000 m doesn't stand by itself, it's probably part of a sequence of sings. 
The other distances might be like 1500 m, 1000 m, 600 m, 250 m, whatever. Then there are three options:

2 km, 1.5 km, 1 km, 0.6 km, 0.25 km
2 km, 1500 m, 1 km, 600 m, 250 m
2000 m, 1500 m, 1000, 600, 250 m

You see the point? It's probably better to use only meters OR kilometers, since mixing might be confusing. And then choosing meters is probably better then just kilometers, because kms would lead to ugly things like '0.25 km'.
So: they choose to use '2000 m'.


----------



## Nero87

2 km, 1.5 km, 1 km, 600 m, 250 m

Only meters OR kilometres? The possibility of using km until you reach a single kilometre and then reverting to metres really isn't THAT confusing. Especially if there's a larger gap between distance demarcations (ie. 2 km, 500m or 1 km, 200 m). If anything, I find it to be the most simple method as you avoid both decimals and extravagant digits. Suppose simplest is largely just what you're used to.


----------



## greg_christine

*Seattle Newspaper Endorsements*

Seattle Newspaper Endorsements

Seattle Times
Question 1 - Build the Tunnel: No
Question 2 - Build the Viaduct: Yes
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/editorialsopinion/2003586359_elevated25.html

Seattle Post-Intelligencer
Question 1 - Build the Tunnel: No
Question 2 - Build the Viaduct: No
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/304790_viaducted.html

The Stranger
Question 1 - Build the Tunnel: No
Question 2 - Build the Viaduct: Hell No
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=161447

Seattle Weekly
Cancel the election.
http://www.seattleweekly.com/2007-0...n-a-viaduct-vote-why-not-just-take-a-poll.php


----------



## Chicagoago

That sucks about the tunnel  i was hoping it wouldn't die just from funding.

We can spend $400,000,000,000 on a war, but we can't shell out 1% of that on an amazing proposal to open up the waterfront of benefit one of our premier cities...

I'll never understand WHY we can't fund more transportation/mass transit options in the country that seem to cost VASTLY less than what we spend on other issues that get NO opposition or delays...

It's our country!!! We're slowly rotting from the inside to propel ourselves farther on the outside.

Hello? Roman Empire?


----------



## Chicagoago

LtBk said:


> Slow people moving over to the right should be common courtesy too. I think most Americans are too selfish with their cars.


I wouldn't sell us all off that quickly. I believe part of this is because you are connecting a major urban area with a resort area. Urban areas for the most part do NOT obey the lane rules used on the other 90% of US interstates that are rural.

In urban areas there are so many lanes and a high level of traffic - this doesn't let the efficiency of US rules come to play. 

Growing up in the midwest and on rural streches of US interstates almost EVERYONE obeys the rules of passing on the left and driving on the right. Growing up in a rural state, this was as much common sense as stopping at a red light. Everyone knew it without thinking. I think people from large urban areas don't understand the rules of the open road as much as people who grew up in this environment. This strech of road is beautiful, but not the symbolism of how people drive long distances in the United States. We're not all selfish 

As far as the roads, YES, American roads are much lower quality than European roads. They're still drivable though, you would rarely be disturbed or visibly upset by low quality roads. It might not be perfectly smooth, but we're not driving on crumbled concrete and gravel. The weather conditions in many areas of the country are extremely harsh as well - which is a quick death to many roads. Growing up it went from -25C to almost 40C every year.

I envy European roads, and have been on dozens of them, but just giving my 2 cents on ours...


----------



## ADCS

All this business about how much better European roads are than American roads is silly, really. Americans pay significantly less in gasoline taxes, and the roads are not as good. Guess what? No one has a problem with that. The roads are maybe not the highest quality, but they get the job done. Also, note that the German autobahn system has 12,200 km for 83 million people, while the interstate has 75,376 km for 300 million people. That means in Germany, 6,300 people are paying for every kilometer, as opposed to the US, where about 4,000 people pay for every kilometer. Of course, the quality isn't going to be as good.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

One interesting thing I would like to mention. I noticed that if we aligned drivers according to their driving skills, it would look like this:

Rural drivers
City drivers (like SF, Chicago, Seattle)
Suburban drivers
Suburban folks are the worst drivers while they are more friendly in person than city people.


----------



## Bond James Bond

It's part of the new Tacoma Narrows Bridge. Most of it has to do with widening the access to the new bridge.

Sorry for the delayed response.


----------



## Chicagoago

That's true, rural drivers in America see the act of driving along interstates/distances as much more of a "thing" than urban drivers do. There's an act to rural driving that's completely lost among urban drivers - and honestly just adds to the gridlock and delays in our cities. People in cities are so clogged in traffic and stuffed up with other cars everywhere that they just do whatever they can. The lack of traffic and urgency of getting somewhere "NOW' in rural areas lets the true art of interstate driving come through.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Chicagoago said:


> That sucks about the tunnel  i was hoping it wouldn't die just from funding.
> 
> We can spend $400,000,000,000 on a war, but we can't shell out 1% of that on an amazing proposal to open up the waterfront of benefit one of our premier cities...


The tunnel would have been more trouble than it was worth. Even with the open space above it, thats all it would ever be is open space. Because of weight restrictions on the roof of the tunnel, they would even have to weigh any trees that would be planted above it. I think the surface boulevard is a much more versatile, simple, elegant solution to the problem.

From the Stranger article. First artist's conception I've seen of the surface boulevard:
http://www.thestranger.com/docs/viaduct_options.pdf


----------



## Billpa

ADCS said:


> the roads are not as good. Guess what? No one has a problem with that.


Speak for yourself please....I have a BIG problem with the condition of some of our roads here.


----------



## gladisimo

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> One interesting thing I would like to mention. I noticed that if we aligned drivers according to their driving skills, it would look like this:
> 
> Rural drivers
> City drivers (like SF, Chicago, Seattle)
> Suburban drivers
> Suburban folks are the worst drivers while they are more friendly in person than city people.


With regards to driving skills, or obeying the rules of the road? I believe that rural driving and urban driving is a completely different way of driving, and each have their own set of skills. I have to agree, though, that suburban drivers are the worst (though I'm one myself) I get very frustrated when some people dont follow something as simple as the right of way at stop signs. As far as the moving to right thing is concerned, that rule is certainly more often observed, and more easily so in rural roads than urban roads, and I don't blame people for not moving to the right in the dense traffic in a city. I get frustrated, however, when people ignore it in the suburban sections of the freeways, often times there will be sections of 20-30 cars that are being held up because 4 cars are all traveling at more or less the same speed and occupying all 4 lanes, making it impossible to pass, and leaving a gap half a mile long between its nearest car in front.


----------



## Chicagoago

^ that's true. On I-290 in the city of Chicago, there is still the noticable "pass left, drive right" when it's not crowded or at night (to a degree, some people just don't realize this rule if they're always driving in a city), but most of the time there's a lot of traffic - and then you can throw that whole logic out the window.

When I get out to I-88 in the outter suburbs though, the "pass left, drive right" really starts to be shown, and when I get to the 2X2 section of road outside the burbs, it's the norm.


----------



## ADCS

Billpa said:


> Speak for yourself please....I have a BIG problem with the condition of some of our roads here.


Yeah, but you're in PA, which is notorious for third-world roads . The rest of the country isn't as bad.


----------



## FM 2258

That sure is a beautiful stretch of highway.


----------



## Billpa

ADCS said:


> Yeah, but you're in PA, which is notorious for third-world roads . The rest of the country isn't as bad.


Pennsylvania's roads, generally, are not the best in the country- but on the other hand American roads in general are much worse off than those of Europe.


----------



## ADCS

Billpa said:


> Pennsylvania's roads, generally, are not the best in the country- but on the other hand American roads in general are much worse off than those of Europe.


And they're not going to be better than Europe unless we were to raise gas taxes to way beyond even that of European nations; fewer people pay per mile of American highway than European highway. It's just the nature of the beast, as the US is so much less dense than Europe. It's not just simply that we don't WANT better roads, it's a feasibility issue.


----------



## Czas na Żywiec

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Here is something that is quite amazing - a motorway underpass that uses two roundabouts instead of STOP signs or traffic lights. As far as I know, it is one of the kind in California.


Ooh, we have a few of those along I-70 in Colorado. I love these things so much better than the usual stoplight/stop sign. Glad to know California is using them too. kay:


----------



## Billpa

ADCS said:


> And they're not going to be better than Europe unless we were to raise gas taxes to way beyond even that of European nations; fewer people pay per mile of American highway than European highway. It's just the nature of the beast, as the US is so much less dense than Europe. It's not just simply that we don't WANT better roads, it's a feasibility issue.



It's too bad we can't be told the truth about the expense of maintaining a good road-system, instead it's always a financial emergency. We just keep ahead of the problems. One of these days, a bridge is going to collapse...wait a minute- that's already happened.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Billpa said:


> It's too bad we can't be told the truth about the expense of maintaining a good road-system, instead it's always a financial emergency.


I wouldn't trust the government too much on that. In NL, the car-owners pays € 20 billion (26 billion USD) every year, but the government only invests like € 2,5 billion (3,3 billion USD) each year, saying there isn't enough money...hno:


----------



## ADCS

Chris1491 said:


> I wouldn't trust the government too much on that. In NL, the car-owners pays € 20 billion (26 billion USD) every year, but the government only invests like € 2,5 billion (3,3 billion USD) each year, saying there isn't enough money...hno:


For this reason alone, I would only be for higher gas taxes here if the money made were specifically targeted toward the transportation department, and not added to the general fund (which is what pretty much always happens)hno:


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Czas na Żywiec;11934397 said:


> Ooh, we have a few of those [roundabouts] along I-70 in Colorado. I love these things so much better than the usual stoplight/stop sign. Glad to know California is using them too. kay:


I know that Colorado is the only state that uses quite a few of them for underpasses and general intersections. I know of five true (aka "modern") roundabouts in Sacramento, and the city officials are planning to build more. The reason is simple: they reduce the accident risk and the risk of serious injuries once it already happened. They improve the traffic flow and help save the environment by eliminating the neccessity to make a full stop and thus reducing the gas emission. Roundabout is always superior to a typical 4-way stop intersection by all means, and the statistique easily confirms that. 

Unfortunately, American traffic bureaus are reluctant to install more roundabouts because there is a common belief that an average American driver won't be able to navigate them. Common sense vs. social conservatism. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", social conservatists would say. But what if it could work much better? It appears that Colorado has more common sense than the rest of the country at least in this field


----------



## ChrisZwolle

FM 2258 said:


> I'm not sure what he meant by the rain but when I'm driving in the rain I feel much safer driving on concrete than on asphalt. The asphalt seems to damn slippery in the rain while the grooves they make in the concrete (also makes that cool whistling sound) seems to work much better with the rain.


In The Netherlands we use ZOAB Asphalt. That means very open asphalt concrete. It looks like regular asphalt, but it is less dense, so water can poor into it very good. Even in heavy rain there is absolutely no water splashing up! Even with trucks! 

It's great, but the opposite side is, that it won't last very long, you can lay down concrete for 30 years, but ZOAB has to be replaced here every 10 - 15 years, because of the heavy traffic we have, and the shorter duration of the asphalt. But it's worth it.


----------



## Billpa

Verso said:


> WTF


There are several Americans who HATE having anything about the US criticized in the least ESPECIALLY if it comes from someone who wasn't born here. I think this is what's going on with this post. The fact is the critique of I-80 and other highways is right on the mark, so the truth wins the day.


----------



## Chicagoago

I just watched "Modern Marvels; Paving America", and everyone on this thread would be quite interested.

It said when the federal government started it's massive plan in the 50's to pave interstates across America (because the Americans saw the Autobahns they used to chase the Germans back across Germany, and were wildy impressed), they used a test track with many types of surfaces 7 miles long, and drove trucks back and forth on it 24 hours a day for 2 years.

They finally chose to use concrete for the new interstates. After awhile though (I think maybe 10-12 years?), they realized that the concrete was breaking up with cracks to a great degree. They then changed, and the main material used is normally asphalt.

The great thing about asphalt is you can lay it down and drive on it right away. Another great thing is when roads need repaving, they scape up all the asphalt, and are able to fully re-use 80% of that same asphalt on a new smooth road. This is great for recycling, as well as makes the process cheaper than mixing new asphalt.

The one thing, as said, is that asphalt lasts a shorter period - especially since much of the country has temps anywhere from -20/-30 to 35-45C. You can fill in cracks in asphalt with new asphalt though for a few years, but at some point you must scrape it up and throw down new material.

It was amazing to see the history of our roads/highways before 1950. They were HORRIBLE. All the highways had names, and some of them were just dirt/gravel roads. In the 1920's when cars were becoming popular, the government finally spoke up and said "hey, we need some system here". There were dozens of roads in the country with names, and after while people were having to stop too many times because they become lost changing from highway to highway with all these different names.

That's when they developed a system of numbers for all the roads across the country. This way people knew to just look for "Highway 6" or whatever, and people were finding their destinations much more efficiently.

In 1919 the Army took a cross country trip across the country to celebrate the win in WWI, and the convoy was gettings stuck in mud and trapped on steep roads all across the country. The trip was chaos, and many vehicles had to be abandoned along the way. This was the very first time (the 1920's) that the government really started looking into the dire need of roads across the country. The 1930's saw a TON of new roads during the depression, but then everything stopped from around 1941 to 1956 because of WWII, the aftermath, and the Korean War. It was finally in 1956 when the government realized millions of Americans were buying a LOT of cars, and here we were with roads built by hand in the 1920's and 1930's.

Now that 50 years has past since we started the interstates, we're hitting the point in the 2000's that a great many of these roads just need to be replaced. I think it's something the government is going to have to start looking at on a larger level than the "patch and repave" that we've been doing since the system was built.

People say we have bad roads, but we didn't ALWAYS have bad roads - we're just living in a time when our massive interstate system is starting to reach old age. I hope the government can deal with this though, we're starting to see more and more of those 5-10 mile patches of interstates being repaved all over the place. It would cause GREAT disruption though if we went and started to reconstruct the roads at the same level as how they were built. You can't just close 150 miles of I-80 to reconstruct. Too many people depend on those roads today.

Anyway, long babble, but an interesting thought.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, we have that problem too. Most of our Dutch motorways were build in the sixties and seventies, and they need to be repaved too, they repaved some 1000km in 2 years. But our motorways are now too busy to begin such a huge pavement-job.


----------



## -Corey-

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> And here is my answer to one of the previous topics " Why European Highways are much better than American ones??". Here is why:


Just because this road is in bad shape doesnt mean that all the american highways are worst than the european highways.


----------



## Billpa

alex537 said:


> Just because this road is in bad shape doesnt mean that all the american highways are worst than the european highways.



Show me any major highway in Western Europe that looks like that. I bet there isn't one to be found. And now Eastern Europe is building good highways as well. I realize the American Interstate system is quite old, but it's not older than the German Autobahn system and the Autobahns, sitting as they do in the center of Europe, are heavily used by trucks and cars. 
I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but we shouldn't be happy with bad highways, especially major cross-country routes like Interstate 80.


----------



## -Corey-

but is not that bad..


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

alex537 said:


> but is not that bad..


That stretch of I-80 is THAT BAD, believe me. Driving there as slow as 80 km/h, you start worrying that your suspension will fail. Last time, I remember a motorway in such a sorry shape was in Russia back in 1997. I don't want to compare all American motorways with European ones, but like Billpa said, I have never ever seen such pavement on any European motorway.


----------



## -Corey-

alright.. whatever.. but that doesnt mean that all the freeways in the United States are in bad shape..


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

You are fighting with the windmills, my friend. No one said that all the freeways in the US are in bad shape.


----------



## ADCS

Billpa said:


> There are several Americans who HATE having anything about the US criticized in the least ESPECIALLY if it comes from someone who wasn't born here. I think this is what's going on with this post. The fact is the critique of I-80 and other highways is right on the mark, so the truth wins the day.


There are several Europeans on here who criticize anything the US does given the opportunity. Rather than actually look at the reasons American freeways are not as good as European ones, they would rather take the moment to bash the US. If that has to do with our current president, well, he sucks, and has nothing to do with anything regarding the roads, save for nominating the Transportation Secretary.

Yes, US roads are different from European ones. Yes, they are of inferior quality at times. No, that has nothing to do with any particular deficiency of the American people, it has everything to do with lower gas taxes and the insanely lower density of the US compared to Europe.


----------



## Billpa

ADCS said:


> they would rather take the moment to bash the US......
> 
> .....that has nothing to do with any particular deficiency of the American people,


Who has said any of the above?
I think you're a little too sensitive about these matters. The American roads infrastructure is quite poor at the moment- pointing that out is not un-American it's just truth-telling. As an American, born and raised, I understand our heads are filled with the idea that America's the greatest country in the world from early on- and challenging that even a little bit- can really start an argument. Oh well, what are you gonna do?:nuts:


----------



## gladisimo

Its all because people are being too bored =) I was watching an episode of South Park, where people say people only protest because they are bored and have nothing better to do... :lol:

It all keeps the world interesting =)


----------



## Chicagoago

Can't we all just :hug:


----------



## ADCS

Billpa said:


> Who has said any of the above?
> I think you're a little too sensitive about these matters. The American roads infrastructure is quite poor at the moment- pointing that out is not un-American it's just truth-telling. As an American, born and raised, I understand our heads are filled with the idea that America's the greatest country in the world from early on- and challenging that even a little bit- can really start an argument. Oh well, what are you gonna do?:nuts:


I don't think we're the best country in the world; in fact, I think anyone claiming such a thing about any country is the height of stupidity. No one said any of the above, however, they are pretty much implied whenever nothing good about what the US is doing is said. Alex von Koenigsburg does a good job of mixing criticism with praise, so I can respect his statements. "Quite poor" is a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? At the same time, don't you think we do pretty well for ourselves given how much less money goes into our system compared to other Western nations? Not to mention how much less money CAN go into our system per capita compared to other Western nations?


----------



## FM 2258

Chris1491 said:


> In The Netherlands we use ZOAB Asphalt. That means very open asphalt concrete. It looks like regular asphalt, but it is less dense, so water can poor into it very good. Even in heavy rain there is absolutely no water splashing up! Even with trucks!
> 
> It's great, but the opposite side is, that it won't last very long, you can lay down concrete for 30 years, but ZOAB has to be replaced here every 10 - 15 years, because of the heavy traffic we have, and the shorter duration of the asphalt. But it's worth it.


Is that the type of asphalt that's kinda "loud" when you drive on it? I actually love the really "rough" asphalt I've seen on some highways especially on Texas 71 on the way to Houston. Let me know if that's what you're talking about. Even in the rain I've driven on that rough type of asphalt at 90mph (144kmh) and felt safe doing that speed.


----------



## Billpa

ADCS said:


> "Quite poor" is a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think?


Looking at the example given, I think "quite poor" is actually kind. I just happen to believe we have our priorities backwards in this country when it comes to this stuff. We spend like there's no tomorrow all over the world through the military when we have very pressing needs here at home; i.e. the gulf coast, New Orleans, Southern Mississippi and our infrastructure. No one in congress dares cut back on what Bush wants to dump in Iraq, but propose rebuilding a highway and there's "no money" to be found. But it's not just Bush- we've spent a king's ransom over the years in the defense of Europe and other places and, personally, I've had enough.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

FM 2258 said:


> Is that the type of asphalt that's kinda "loud" when you drive on it?


No, it's extremely noise-reducing asphalt, it makes way lesser noise than concrete.


----------



## ADCS

Billpa said:


> Looking at the example given, I think "quite poor" is actually kind. I just happen to believe we have our priorities backwards in this country when it comes to this stuff. We spend like there's no tomorrow all over the world through the military when we have very pressing needs here at home; i.e. the gulf coast, New Orleans, Southern Mississippi and our infrastructure. No one in congress dares cut back on what Bush wants to dump in Iraq, but propose rebuilding a highway and there's "no money" to be found. But it's not just Bush- we've spent a king's ransom over the years in the defense of Europe and other places and, personally, I've had enough.


Fair enough, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, and I for the most part agree with you. I think the problem is that no matter what, even if we did have as high gas taxes as most European nations, our freeways would not be as good, simply because not as many people are paying per mile. That's what I'm trying to say.


----------



## gladisimo

ADCS said:


> Fair enough, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, and I for the most part agree with you. I think the problem is that no matter what, even if we did have as high gas taxes as most European nations, our freeways would not be as good, simply because not as many people are paying per mile. That's what I'm trying to say.


Yea, and it would be impractical for the prices to be that high up in the United States, IMO, the massive urban sprawl and different car culture in America does not leave room for gas prices to get up much higher, especially since there's not very much choice in the way of public transportation. 

Plus, are labor/materials costs different in Europe and America? I don't know if that might play a factor.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

When I started this topic, I didn't really want it to boil down to another "America vs. Europe" thread. My main point was to show how unsatisfactory condition some stretches of I-80 are in right now. I went further and claimed that in Europe they simply did not wait for the road pavement to deteriorate that much. The motorways I use everyday to get to university and other places is quite good.


----------



## -Corey-

There are freeways in Spain like I-80 and even worst than that....


----------



## Xusein

California has great roads in comparison to the ones here in the Northeast.


----------



## czm3

California has great roads, but I80 isnt one of them...even so, I80 is only like that for a couple of miles as it crosses through the Sierra Nevada. Generally, Louisiana, New Mexico, and Pennslyvania have the worst roads, while Arizona and Georgia probably have the best. It varies tremendously depending on the actual road.

Alex-there are lots of rotorys and roundabouts in the US, just not on the left coast. Colorado started building them in the mid 90s as a town called Vail refused to install traffic lights at the bottom of their I70 on ramps.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

alex537 said:


> There are freeways in Spain like I-80 and even worst than that....


Like on the picture? I drove across Spain all the way to Lisboa, and haven't noticed any major pavement deterioration. If you know of some, tell me where you saw it? Autopista/Autovia 7, 4, and 5 were in a very mint condition as far as I remember. Onus probandi is on you, my friend.


----------



## ADCS

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> When I started this topic, I didn't really want it to boil down to another "America vs. Europe" thread. My main point was to show how unsatisfactory condition some stretches of I-80 are in right now. I went further and claimed that in Europe they simply did not wait for the road pavement to deteriorate that much. The motorways I use everyday to get to university and other places is quite good.


It was bound to happen, and I am not trying to pick a fight. The fact of the matter is that no one likes to hear criticism of their country from outsiders, yet, outsiders love to give criticism of others' countries, regardless of where they are from. It seems that on this site in particular, there are relatively few Americans compared to the rest of the Internet, so we tend to be a favorite target. Therefore, it is hard to discriminate between mere observation and yet another attack. As stated before, no country or continent is inherently better than another, since we all respond to the particular unique challenges that are placed before us.

Yep, Europe can afford to not wait. They have the money. I'm sure if anyone cared to look at the records about this particular segment of highway, the reason (most likely financial) for its disrepair would be pretty apparent.

Anyway, what good is the fighting? I'm sure there are universals between Americans and most of the rest of the world... :cheers:


----------



## Verso

^^ I don't think u wanna be compared to North Korea or sth. Although, they have fabulous 10-lane highways...



ADCS said:


> At the same time, don't you think we do pretty well for ourselves given how much less money goes into our system compared to other Western nations?


Of course, that's the reason; no one expects you to do better job with such amount of money, but the US should put more money into its highways.



ADCS said:


> Not to mention how much less money CAN go into our system per capita compared to other Western nations?


Not only 'Western nations' have good highways, so, yes, the US density is quite low, but it's one of the wealthiest nations on Earth (per capita), so I don't see how this should be a big problem, at least for highways, and especially expressways, where you can't mess around with bad quality, considering high speeds on them.


----------



## sbarn

This is a completely absurd conversation... i grew up in San Francisco and have driven to Tahoe countless times on Interstate 80. In terms of surface quality, there are sections of the road that are in extremely poor shape. However, you must realize that this is stretch of road endures some of the worst weather in the United States. Donner summit on I-80 could possibly receive more snowfall than any other stretch of interstate in the U.S. Combined this with relatively heavy truck traffic, it is difficult to keep the road in good repair. See below for annual snowfalls on Donner summit:










That said, I have also driven extensively in Europe. Most recently (this January), I drove from Munich to Kitzbuhel in Austria on the Autobahn. First, I would agree that this stretch of roadway was in great shape - night and day difference when compared to I-80 in the Sierra Nevada. Secondly, people definitely respect the left lane as the "passing lane". I must admit that I was in heaven, since slow driving in the fast lane is my number one pet peeve. 

However, I find it ridiculous that people would compare a single stretch of roadway that endures extremely harsh conditions as an example for all of American Highways. Here are a few images of Interstate 80 _outside _of the harsh conditions of the Sierras:

Here is the start of the highway in San Francisco:









... and in Berkeley ...









... and in Richmond ...









... in Pittsburgh ...









... San Pablo ...









... Southern Napa County ...









... concrete section, not in the most awesome of shape ...









... in the central valley, here it switches back and forth between concrete and asphalt ...


















... a newly repaved section while entering Sacramento (skyline on the left) ...









... concrete bridge over the floodplain west of the city ...









... concrete section on the business loop around the Sacramento ...









... Sacramento section with light rail in the middle ...









... here is an extremely wide section to the east of the city ...









... this wide section extends for several miles ...









... the road begins to ascend into the Sierra foothills ...









... higher ...









... soon after this photo is where the Sierra Nevada tour picks up ...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Why do they've got this kind a road markings, and not ordinary painted lines?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, i have driven in Eastern Germany and Poland a few years ago, before the huge reconstruction of these Reichsautobahnen, which maintenance was about done by hitler himself, and not since. 

Some motorways (German A13, Polish A4) looks more like a gravelpath rather than a full motorways.


----------



## Billpa

sbarn said:


> However, I find it ridiculous that people would compare a single stretch of roadway that endures extremely harsh conditions as an example for all of American Highways.


Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm certainly not basing my argument on that one section of freeway; in fact, I've never driven that stretch of 80 in my life. But I HAVE driven in PA, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, New York, New England, Ohio, Indiana, WV, NC, VA, SC, GA, Fla, Tennessee, Arkansas, Texas and New Mexico and I've experienced roads like that in several states- and in some cases worse. I've also driven in Germany and have studied countless photos of other European motorways and I've not once seen any single piece of motorway in western Europe that looks like that. If one exists, I'd ask that someone please post a photo of it here.


----------



## Verso

^^ There are of course, they aren't common though. While Italian motorways/freeways (autostrade) are excellent, expressways (superstrade) are often in deadly conditions.


----------



## sbarn

Billpa said:


> Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm certainly not basing my argument on that one section of freeway; in fact, I've never driven that stretch of 80 in my life. But I HAVE driven in PA, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, New York, New England, Ohio, Indiana, WV, NC, VA, SC, GA, Fla, Tennessee, Arkansas, Texas and New Mexico and I've experienced roads like that in several states- and in some cases worse. I've also driven in Germany and have studied countless photos of other European motorways and I've not once seen any single piece of motorway in western Europe that looks like that. If one exists, I'd ask that someone please post a photo of it here.


I agree that European roads, in general, have a higher surface/pavement quality. However, I also would say that interstate highways in the U.S. fluctuate between great quality and poor quality... thus, many interstates in the U.S. are in great shape.


----------



## sbarn

Chris1491 said:


> Why do they've got this kind a road markings, and not ordinary painted lines?


They are called "bot dots" and are only used in states where there is no whether (i.e. snow, ice). They are good in keeping people in their lanes because they make noise when your tires hit them. They are common throughout California... I've also seen them in Washington, Oregon, Nevada and Arizona.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Has everyone mailed in their ballot yet?


----------



## Billpa

sbarn said:


> in the U.S. fluctuate between great quality and poor quality... thus, many interstates in the U.S. are in great shape.


No one has suggested there aren't good Interstates in the US; we've been discussing the overall quality vs Europe- and Europe wins that battle hands down. My point to you is that there is, unfortunately, too many examples of bad Interstate highway sements in the US. Your comment, that using one small sample from I-80 to paint the entire country was ridiculous and absurd, would be accurate, if it were true, which it's not.


----------



## gladisimo

sbarn said:


> They are called "bot dots" and are only used in states where there is no whether (i.e. snow, ice). They are good in keeping people in their lanes because they make noise when your tires hit them. They are common throughout California... I've also seen them in Washington, Oregon, Nevada and Arizona.


Also saves the trouble and danger of paint wearing out over time, especially in a road as frequently as traveled as that. (NB that stretch of I-80 is just off of the bay bridge, after an intersection into 580 and 880, the Bay Bridge, as some of you might know is considered one of the most heavily traveled bridges in the entire country)

btw, sbarn, i think the ordering of the pictures on your post last page is off.


----------



## sbarn

Billpa said:


> No one has suggested there aren't good Interstates in the US; we've been discussing the overall quality vs Europe- and Europe wins that battle hands down. My point to you is that there is, unfortunately, too many examples of bad Interstate highway sements in the US. Your comment, that using one small sample from I-80 to paint the entire country was ridiculous and absurd, would be accurate, if it were true, which it's not.


You realize I'm agreeing with you that the overall quality of roads in most European countries is better? My point was that Interstate 80 in the Sierras is not an example of 'typical' interstate quality. End of discussion.


----------



## Billpa

sbarn said:


> End of discussion.


If it's all the same to you, I and others may wish to continue to discuss this topic. I think the sample of I-80 that got all this going IS typical of too many miles of motorway in the US. Unfortunately, there is a wide range of conditions on American Interstates from very good to very poor. In western Europe you don't have that range- it's generally all very good.


----------



## Verso

sbarn said:


> They are called "bot dots" and are only used in states where there is no whether (i.e. snow, ice). *They are good in keeping people in their lanes because they make noise when your tires hit them.* They are common throughout California... I've also seen them in Washington, Oregon, Nevada and Arizona.


Why would anyone want to keep people in their lanes? If a car in front of me is slower than me, I'll naturally overtake it. Americans just drive, and don't overtake much?


----------



## ADCS

Verso said:


> Why would anyone want to keep people in their lanes? If a car in front of me is slower than me, I'll naturally overtake it. Americans just drive, and don't overtake much?


I think he means more like that in urban traffic (remember, American freeways go straight through the cities), where the traffic density is likely to be high, it's good to have that reassurance so if someone is not paying attention and starts to drift into another lane, they will notice by the vibrations.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ADCS said:


> I think he means more like that in urban traffic (remember, American freeways go straight through the cities), where the traffic density is likely to be high, it's good to have that reassurance so if someone is not paying attention and starts to drift into another lane, they will notice by the vibrations.


I guess that happens more on rural interstates in Wyoming and Nevada, than some city interstate  

In Wyoming on the I-80, they've got that kind of broken asphalt on the shoulder, so one who fell asleep or not paying attention, will be alarmed.


----------



## ADCS

Chris1491 said:


> I guess that happens more on rural interstates in Wyoming and Nevada, than some city interstate
> 
> In Wyoming on the I-80, they've got that kind of broken asphalt on the shoulder, so one who fell asleep or not paying attention, will be alarmed.


You'd think that, but then again, drivers are complete idiots over here.:bash:


----------



## Chicagoago

This conversation seems to be going nowhere, just the same crap being thrown back and forth about roads in the US.


----------



## ADCS

Chicagoago said:


> This conversation seems to be going nowhere, just the same crap being thrown back and forth about roads in the US.


Yep, pretty much. I know I'm not helping, either. :nuts:


----------



## Verso

:hug: 


The thread can be closed now.


----------



## sbarn

sbarn said:


> I agree that European roads, in general, have a higher surface/pavement quality. However, I also would say that interstate highways in the U.S. fluctuate between great quality and poor quality... thus, many interstates in the U.S. are in great shape.





Billpa said:


> If it's all the same to you, I and others may wish to continue to discuss this topic. I think the sample of I-80 that got all this going IS typical of too many miles of motorway in the US. Unfortunately, there is a wide range of conditions on American Interstates from very good to very poor. In western Europe you don't have that range- it's generally all very good.


I'm confused as to why you keep responding to my statements... you literally restated one of my earlier posts. Let me highlight a few points:

We both agree that the road surface in European countries is of higher quality.
We both agree that some U.S. highways are in terrible shape, while others are in great shape.
Thus, end of *OUR* discussion.


----------



## Billpa

I suppose I responded because you said the conversation was absurd and ridiculous. You then informed me the discussion was ended. I guess that's why. Plus we generally have NOT agreed. While we both concede the European motorway system is in better shape, I maintain the original poster's photo of a bad section of I-80 is a great example of what is too often found in the US and its something that needs to be dealt with. I get the impression from your comments that the aforementioned I-80 section is more or less an aberration.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

How is the I-80 in Pennsylvania?


----------



## Billpa

Chris1491 said:


> How is the I-80 in Pennsylvania?


Parts of it are ok- there is, however, a section just east of I-81 in the eastbound lanes that is simply horrible. The ride is just awful on that stretch and would make you long for the 80 going through the Sierra Nevadas. I don't have a photo of it, but trust me, it's horrible. In fact, it might be the worst section of Interstate highway in the northeast- perhaps not- but I can't think of a worse example off the top of my head.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I heard the I-10 west of Baton Rouge is very bad too.


----------



## ADCS

Chris1491 said:


> I heard the I-10 west of Baton Rouge is very bad too.


Yeah, that's pretty awful, but it's condition is probably more a reflection of corruption in Louisiana state politics than it is simply neglect.


----------



## hmmwv

I work in downtown and used to commute from Seatac, but I've moved to Mountlake Terrace now so I don't have to worry about backups during construction. With all the hypes about the replacement plan, does the city have a detailed plan to detour the viaduct traffic during construction? I mean, after all there are a lot of vehicles use the viaduct everyday.


----------



## BoulderGrad

*Early Returns*

98,000 votes counted as of tonight

Elevated Viaduct
45% Yes
55% No

Tunnel Lite
30% Yes
70% No


----------



## Jaxom92

It's interesting to see both measures be voted down. I think it would have been much more informative to add the surface option and the original tunnel option to the ballot. No - No could mean a few different things here.


----------



## hmmwv

So....surface street? Anyone?
If the vote is just a non binding resolution, why bother in the first place?


----------



## Zanovijetalo

*hello WA*

Huhm, tunel, what else. And it should be built asap so the folks from Grey's Anatomy can get to work in time... To save lives you know...


----------



## Jaxom92

hmmwv said:


> If the vote is just a non binding resolution, why bother in the first place?


Precisely. The various opinions have not been changed and everybody thinks they have won through this vote. The whole situation is a ridiculous political circus.

What should have been on the ballot in order to correctly gauge public opinion was a multiple-choice, not a yes-no question. And the choices should have included a surface option, as well as the original six-lane tunnel option. A, B, C, D. Simple.

However, due to the political games between the state and the city and the governor's insistence on a vote before April 23rd, we ended up with the pointless yes-no vote.

The No-No could mean quite a few things: A protest against the way the whole thing was handled, support for an option not included on the ballot, and my personal favorite: Seattle doesn't actually _have_ a majority opinion (how quaint).


----------



## Jaxom92

*Why American Highways are in Such Disrepair*

This topic has been batted around in numerous other threads, but I thought I'd start one specific to the idea.

American highways are in such poor shape because of sheer financial cost of maintaining so many miles of highway. We are a car loving nation and as such we put tremendous wear and tear on our roads. Furthermore, in metropolitan areas, the sprawling nature of our cities necessitates longer commutes and thus more road usage. Again, greater wear and tear. Add into the fact that we don't like taxes as a whole, and voila, a serious backlog of maintenance work costing in the _trillions_ of dollars.

There's no way we could ever fix all of our highways at any point in time. Not unless road building and maintenance became considerably cheaper. I'm not sure even that would help either.

For now, we rush around and fix the most pressing problems with the least amount of time and money.


----------



## Jaxom92

HOV lanes are being added to I-5 through Tacoma. This is part of a larger plan to have continuous HOV lanes from Everett to Tacoma.

*Specific WSDOT links:*

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/PierceCountyHOV/I5_HOV_S48th_Pacific/
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/piercecountyhov/

Hope that helps.


----------



## LordMandeep

anywhere in New jesery...


----------



## ahmed007

hey why some people are saying the U.S can't maintain all it is roads. i actually see maintaing a highway as an easy problem. i mean Europe does it why can't the U.S? if they have more traffic then that just means more money from paytolls.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

ahmed007 said:


> hey why some people are saying the U.S can't maintain all it is roads. i actually see maintaing a highway as an easy problem. i mean Europe does it why can't the U.S? if they have more traffic then that just means more money from paytolls.


We ain't got no paytolls here :lol: I personally would agree to pay $5 per 100km if they agreed to keep the roads in a decent shape. Besides, it would reduce the number of joy-riders as well.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

^There aren't any paytolls in Germany, yes, but in most European countries you still have to pay for using motorways.


----------



## getontrac

Most all highways are built out of concrete to begin with. Then as the highway ages is usually covered with asphalt for smoother ridering as cracks develop in concrete. Concrete is much stronger and lasts much longer, but concrete can crack in more dangerous, long-term ways.

Let me know if you see a truly new highway that is asphalt with no concrete underneath!

Nate


----------



## czm3

Low fuel taxes, and heavy traffic keep American roads in disrepair. US cities are generally very auto dependent which makes repairing roadways very difficult. The US also has a much larger network of secondary roads (which are often as wide as the highways) that need to be maintained. Federal tax on one gallon of gas (3.8L) is $0.18.  Most states either charge a lot for gas (like NY) or they gouge you with exise or property taxes (MA and NH). Either or, American drivers pay a fraction per mile compared to their EU counterparts, and therefore they have a network which is in disrepair.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Dutch fuel tax is € 0,668 per liter, plus 19% VAT. Some 64% of the fuel price exists out of tax. The US fueltax is a laughter compared to the Dutch fueltax. 

But i heard, in Venezuela, it costs around € 0,03 per liter, that is about 5 dollarcents.


----------



## gladisimo

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Sure. This is I-80 near O'Donner Pass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does it qualify as a bad road? Absolutely. Trust me, you can damage your axle over there.


Funnily enough, I've seen worse (don't remember specifically where, but I've definitely seen worse)


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

gladisimo said:


> Funnily enough, I've seen worse (don't remember specifically where, but I've definitely seen worse)


Was that at least in California?


----------



## shadyunltd

Please... you haven't seen Quebec's Highways. I bet any Third-World Country can beat us in terms of the road condition.


----------



## gladisimo

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Was that at least in California?


Pretty sure, yes, unless it was in Nevada


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

gladisimo said:


> Pretty sure, yes, unless it was in Nevada


Nevada... Nevada has the best road pavement compared to the rest of America as well as Europe (at least the countries I've driven in). I-80 and all 2-lane roads in the middle of the desert look like they've been paved yesterday. And Nevada drivers, compared to Californians, have better discipline too


----------



## ShowMeKC

We use our cars way too much here in the US, which is probably the reason why Europe can maintain them better, they don't use personal automobiles as much as we do.


----------



## Jaxom92

ahmed007 said:


> hey why some people are saying the U.S can't maintain all it is roads. i actually see maintaing a highway as an easy problem. i mean Europe does it why can't the U.S? if they have more traffic then that just means more money from paytolls.


Tolls are a political hot potato due to the sheer number of drivers that require use of the roads to get to every essential place in their daily lives. This again goes back to the way American society is structured, economically, culturally, politically, and physically.

I know that tolls are more common on the eastern seaboard than over here in the west. Perhaps the political situation is some what regional. We're almost done building a new suspension bridge here in the Seattle region and we will toll this in order to pay for it. There's a good number of people that travel across the bridge every day. Incidentally, the bridge connects to part of the region that generally has a higher than average income.

Those pictures of I-80 look a lot like the concrete on I-5 in the Seattle region. It's an excellent example of the problem.


----------



## Billpa

shadyunltd said:


> Please... you haven't seen Quebec's Highways. I bet any Third-World Country can beat us in terms of the road condition.


I never had any problems with the Autoroutes (mostly driven in the Quebec City region- not so much Montreal)- but I'd agree with you on many of the back roads that have provincial route designations.


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## czm3

Route 15 going through montreal is a nightmare capped off with the expansion joints on that ancient bridge going over the St L River.....


Nevada does have good roads, but the roads in Arizona are better. But dont worry, once you reach New Mexico, they turn to shit again... 

Generally, US highways are best in the south and west, and worst in the Northeast and upper midwest where there are temperature extremes. Hence Alex's Donner Pass looking like crap.


----------



## Jaxom92

czm3 said:


> Generally, US highways are best in the south and west, and worst in the Northeast and upper midwest where there are temperature extremes. Hence Alex's Donner Pass looking like crap.


And here I am complaining about the roads in the west. Hehe.

Actually, that makes sense, since the repeated freezing thawing and refreezing of water in minute cracks in the roadway surface makes those cracks worse. Not to mention repeated plowing tears roads apart.


----------



## LosAngelesMetroBoy

that and our underroad deck is much thinner due to the fact we have more highway to maintain (or not maintain). But having driven over donner pass i do have to say you cant brake your axle. Those cracks make for a more bumpy ride yes, but you have more danger of braking your car on surface city roads than on our highways.


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## sprtsluvr8

The quality of roads and highways varies from state to state in the U.S. The entire country shouldn't be judged by a visitor's experience with one or two shabby highways. In my area the highways are excellent and well-maintained, and most of the surrounding states are the same way.


----------



## Jaxom92

sprtsluvr8 said:


> The quality of roads and highways varies from state to state in the U.S. The entire country shouldn't be judged by a visitor's experience with one or two shabby highways. In my area the highways are excellent and well-maintained, and most of the surrounding states are the same way.


What region of the country do you live?


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## pflo777

I am also surprised by how bad the US higway system is.

But its not, that the US cannot afford maintaining it, they just dont want to.

Countries all over Europe are able to keep their Highways in proper conditions, why should the US, which has much more money not be able to do so?

People in the US are just much to used to bad infrastrucutre

Bad public transportation, bad electicity infrastructure, bad public schools and bad public universities and bad public health care.


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## Alex Von Königsberg

Public universities aren't bad and road network is in a very decent condition for most of the part. I don't know why you concluded that the US highway system is bad. In this topic, we were talking about the road pavement, weren't we?


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## Billpa

I, for the life of me, don't know what he's talking about when he says America has bad public universities. I actually think they're quite good. In fact, (I'm not expert) but the higher education setup in the US is exellent from what I know.
Also, bad public health system? We, for the most part, have a private health system in this country.


----------



## sprtsluvr8

pflo777 said:


> I am also surprised by how bad the US higway system is.
> 
> But its not, that the US cannot afford maintaining it, they just dont want to.
> 
> Countries all over Europe are able to keep their Highways in proper conditions, why should the US, which has much more money not be able to do so?
> 
> People in the US are just much to used to bad infrastrucutre
> 
> Bad public transportation, bad electicity infrastructure, bad public schools and bad public universities and bad public health care.


...and bad manners from Europeans. Why do so many of them want to live in the U.S. if it's all bad?


----------



## sprtsluvr8

Jaxom92 said:


> What region of the country do you live?


I'm in Atlanta...the warm weather states normally don't have as much road maintenance.


----------



## Jaxom92

pflo777 said:


> I am also surprised by how bad the US higway system is.
> 
> But its not, that the US cannot afford maintaining it, they just dont want to.
> 
> Countries all over Europe are able to keep their Highways in proper conditions, why should the US, which has much more money not be able to do so?


I think you have a good point with this. The U.S. spends billions of dollars a many other things besides transportation infrastructure. If we wanted to reorganize our priorities, we could, but we don't. A good question to ask those of us that live in America: why is this? What programs are receiving more attention that maybe don't need to?



Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Public universities aren't bad and road network is in a very decent condition for most of the part. I don't know why you concluded that the US highway system is bad. In this topic, we were talking about the road pavement, weren't we?


Indeed, why the pavement has not received proper maintenance in many regions of the country.


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## sprtsluvr8

Jaxom92 said:


> I think you have a good point with this. The U.S. spends billions of dollars a many other things besides transportation infrastructure. If we wanted to reorganize our priorities, we could, but we don't. A good question to ask those of us that live in America: why is this? What programs are receiving more attention that maybe don't need to?


I can think of several programs that AREN'T getting the attention...education for one...but aren't most of the highways maintained by each state? I know the interstates are funded by the fed, but the maintenance and upkeep are the responsibility of the state right?


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## Jaxom92

Yeah, states do most of the funding for maintaining the highways, state and interstates. I guess it's a state level question rather than a federal level one. Though the federal government has much influence on the ability to fund transportation projects. From some of the projects in my area that I've looked at recently, the federal government has dollars in nearly all of the major construction.

And you're right about programs not getting proper attention either. It's another symptom of our misaligned priorities. Everybody wants to fund some project or another, and the vast majority of them are worthy causes. However, even the U.S. government in deficit spending doesn't have enough money to fund everything. As such, programs get slashed here and there and priorities are rearranged frequently. I'm concerned that the projects that form the foundation of this country are receiving less funding than necessary. Education in may parts of the U.S. is lacking. (Washington, incidentally, has nearly 2 billion dollars in surplus and much of that is going to education.) I see transportation as a foundation project that ensures the smooth operation of the economy. A healthy economy means a healthy nation able to support itself and maintain a certain standard of living.

So, the larger question I guess is do people agree with this and if so, what we might do to change the way money is spent? Can we even hope to achieve this goal? I think our transportation infrastructure is one of many indicators of a larger problem.


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## pwalker

*State priorities*

Interesting topic. I believe the condition of our freeways and highways is a State issue. How does your State prioritize this? Yes, there is federal funding for the Interstate system, supplemented by State funding. 

My experience is the smaller to mid-size States seem to do a better job with their highways, especially in the West. Could be simple economics...less people, less traffic, less wear and tear, less need overall. For example the Interstates in Montana and Utah are in very good condition, and upgrades are frequent. The larger States in the west, California, Washington, and many large midwestern and eastern states are the worst. 

Comes down to how much residents are willing to pay for road improvements. And that varies from State to State. 

Sub-topic suggestion: Which State has the worst maintained highways?
Most will vote for their own, but for those who travel, what are the troublesome States?


----------



## Gaeus

Jaxom92 said:


> Yeah, states do most of the funding for maintaining the highways, state and interstates. I guess it's a state level question rather than a federal level one. Though the federal government has much influence on the ability to fund transportation projects. From some of the projects in my area that I've looked at recently, the federal government has dollars in nearly all of the major construction.
> 
> And you're right about programs not getting proper attention either. It's another symptom of our misaligned priorities. Everybody wants to fund some project or another, and the vast majority of them are worthy causes. However, even the U.S. government in deficit spending doesn't have enough money to fund everything. As such, programs get slashed here and there and priorities are rearranged frequently. I'm concerned that the projects that form the foundation of this country are receiving less funding than necessary. Education in may parts of the U.S. is lacking. (Washington, incidentally, has nearly 2 billion dollars in surplus and much of that is going to education.) I see transportation as a foundation project that ensures the smooth operation of the economy. A healthy economy means a healthy nation able to support itself and maintain a certain standard of living.
> 
> So, the larger question I guess is do people agree with this and if so, what we might do to change the way money is spent? Can we even hope to achieve this goal? I think our transportation infrastructure is one of many indicators of a larger problem.


Yeah but unfortunately most of the federal highway funds are going to Southern States. Many fund goes to Katrina affected states like Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama but I heard that other states like The Carolinas and Texas are getting some federal funds too. Those states are currently booming so there are heavy constructions of highways there (Or maybe the fed govs are prioritizing them :hm: )



> Interesting topic. I believe the condition of our freeways and highways is a State issue. How does your State prioritize this? Yes, there is federal funding for the Interstate system, supplemented by State funding.
> 
> My experience is the smaller to mid-size States seem to do a better job with their highways, especially in the West. Could be simple economics...less people, less traffic, less wear and tear, less need overall. For example the Interstates in Montana and Utah are in very good condition, and upgrades are frequent. The larger States in the west, California, Washington, and many large midwestern and eastern states are the worst.
> 
> Comes down to how much residents are willing to pay for road improvements. And that varies from State to State.
> 
> Sub-topic suggestion: Which State has the worst maintained highways?
> Most will vote for their own, but for those who travel, what are the troublesome States?


Yeah, you can't blame the U.S. Fed Gov for this issue. To OP, blame Washington State instead or the City Hall of Seattle. One of the state I noticed is Virginia. Their roads have nice maintenance and and are being improve using State Funds[they never ask for Fed Funds except for mega projects). There are more roads and highways being built here too. Unfortunately, DC has the worst maintenance ever. our roads are crappy and too many potholes. Some roads like in Georgetown Area are better now (After 10 years of waiting).


----------



## pwalker

*HOV is a joke*

IMHO, HOV lanes are a waste of concrete. Seattle is in love with them. Yah, Seattle traffic is SO much better after these are built! It is also discriminatory toward singles, who may not have families to use them. The concept of carpooling is "neato", but in reality does not work for most. Open up all the lanes that the public has paid for. I'm convinced Seattle traffic would move smoother and faster WITHOUT them. Yet, that city continues to pour billions into building more of them. I say, ENOUGH! (I realize this argument will meet nothing but opposition in PC Seattle.)


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## mhays

I totally disagree. 

Carpool lanes might not work for you, but they do encourage carpools. More importantly, they allow buses to travel faster.


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## pwalker

The bus issue I will concede. But I have personally never met or known of anyone in the Seattle area that put together carpools for the express purpose of being able to use these lanes. More often, it is accidental..."oh, we've got three people, we can use that lane!". Then they proceed to drive 55 in a 60 and slow everyone else down. Sorry, but I think this is an idea that everyone thought would work, but hardly makes a difference. But, back to the busses, I'm all for improved mass transit and am glad to see light rail FINALLY being built in Seattle. But busses on freeways? Not many US cities even operate city busses on freeways. Seriously, I'm all for improving traffic flow, I just don't think HOV is the way to go.


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## Alex Von Königsberg

I think that all interstates should be funded by federal government only. It would ensure the even distribution of funds among all states and would keep some uniformity in road quality. At the same time, if a particular stretch is in a bad shape, people will not say something like: "Hey, this road is aweful because [insert a state] is a shithole and doesn't spend enough money on it." For instance, the decrease in road quality on I-80 once you cross Nevada-California border is just shocking.


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## pwalker

I think a nationalistic federal takeover of all Interstate maintenance and construction would be a disaster. First, how would they decide who gets what? Politics would seep into it, it always does. Second, for this to happen, federal taxes would have to go up. I say, let the people in their own States decide how much (or little) they want to pay.


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## pwalker

If anyone understands Seattle and Washington State politics they know that this (and most other large projects) are argued about for years, sometimes decades, before they are eventually built at five times the original cost.
Example: I-90 across Lake Washington & Mercer Island. First planned in the 1960's, eventually opened in the late 80's, and then a 1990 storm destroyed the old bridge to hasten final completion.


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## Jaxom92

A nationalized funding program would have to be distributed on a per-capita basis. Theoretically, the most money would go to the areas with the most drivers. And it can't just be state to state, the divisions of funds must be taken down to the census tract level in order to properly allocate funds to where the roads are. It's not like the federal government doesn't have that data with the census and all.


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## Chicagoago

I think a lot of it has to do with the amount of traffic on the roads, especially trucks, and the extreme temperature changes. These are what rip our roads up more than anything.

For example, if you look at 4 flat states in the United States, the degree to which their temperatures can change within any given year are vast.

Iowa has seen a spread of 74 degrees C (165 degrees F) within that one state, and it's completely flat - hence no mountains or anything to throw off the differences.

North Dakota has seen temperatures swing by 83 degrees C (181 degrees F)
Ohio has seen temperatures swing by 67 degrees C (152 degrees F)
Michigan has seen temperatures swing by 73 degrees C (163 degrees F)

When you have winter temperatures getting down to -51C (-60 F) in the winter, and up to 50C (121 F) in the summer on the same stretch of road, this can really rip up the asphalt/concrete.

We also have 75,376 KM of Interstate Highways to maintain, and 256,000 KM of Highways total in the United States. These are a small portion of the 6,430,364 KM of total roads in the United States - but they carry 75% of our truck traffic.

With 243,023,485 vehicles traveling on these roads, including 6,161,028 semi-trucks with massive amounts of freight, it can be a huge task to keep the roads in good condition.

I've driven from top to bottom, coast to coast, and while there are many roads which aren't in GOOD condition, a vast majority are perfectly fine to drive on. Sure, you might not feel like you're floating smoothly on a cushion of air, but it's really not something that's going to bother you. If we REALLY wanted the roads to be perfect, we're reconstruct them more and spend a lot more money on them. Obviously we're fine having them run down a little more than in Europe before we repave them. It's just chaper, less closures to reconstruct, and something your average citizen is perfectly fine dealing with on a daily basis. Different perspectives I suppose.


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## Jaxom92

^^ Where'd you get those numbers? It's a great way to see the significance of the traffic on our freeways. I might want to call them up for myself at some point, too, so if the source is readily available on the web, it'd be great to have.


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## gladisimo

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Nevada... Nevada has the best road pavement compared to the rest of America as well as Europe (at least the countries I've driven in). I-80 and all 2-lane roads in the middle of the desert look like they've been paved yesterday. And Nevada drivers, compared to Californians, have better discipline too


I realize now. I was driving today and remembered this thread. I'm talking about the section of US-101 throughout much of the peninsula, holes EVERYWHERE, I'll try to take a picture if I get a chance. 

Admittedly, it's very heavily traveled (but shouldn't it, for exactly the same reason, have excellent pavement?)

I was in Las Vegas, so many Californians, didn't notice much better driving habits.


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## gladisimo

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> I think that all interstates should be funded by federal government only. It would ensure the even distribution of funds among all states and would keep some uniformity in road quality. At the same time, if a particular stretch is in a bad shape, people will not say something like: "Hey, this road is aweful because [insert a state] is a shithole and doesn't spend enough money on it." For instance, the decrease in road quality on I-80 once you cross Nevada-California border is just shocking.


Don't know if it's been said, but the problem with that is that the contrast between the interstate and us highways/state highways would be too great in some of the poorer areas/states. I rather recommend the state distribute all its funding equally to ensure good road quality all around. 

Of course, I haven't thought it out clearly yet, I can sing both ways. My real problem is that the interstates are too tightly integrated with other roads (esp in metropolitan areas) and the change in quality might differ. Also, states can lobby for different amounts of funding etc... and disparity might nevertheless result.


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## Xusein

Connecticut's highways are in crap condition because of many reasons...

-*Cost.* In some areas, the land is just too expensive to make widenings, and NIMBYs will block any widening at all. On I-95, right outside the NY state line, they are thinking of removing some exits, to let less cars in.

-*Outdated techniques.* There are too many left exits, too much unused interchanges, and too much crazy turns, from plans that were cancelled. A lot of the interchanges are not needed.

-*Too much use*. Connecticut, being a relatively dense state on the east coast, has a crap public transportation system compared to it's neighbors. Commuter rail doesn't serve the capital, and nobody wants to take buses, so more and more people will crowd the highways. 

-*Corruption*. An over $1b construction process to refix and widen Interstate 84 has been finished with shoddy storm drains and shoulders. The best contractor to do the job wasn't allowed to do the job, but the one with the most connections were. This isn't the first time this happened.

Connecticut's highways are a ticking time bomb waiting to explode. They are traffic filled, which has lead to many devestating accidents in the past and present. If the state government wasn't so corrupt and lazy, or more people took PT, probably it wouldn't be that bad, but it is. We're paying the price.

The East Coast has the WORST highways period though, do NOT get me started on New York or Mass.


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## getontrac

The US is broke. Our economy and expeditures are based on creating debt. 

We've gotten a free ride in a fancy car that's about to end.

Nate


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## inthejungle

Chris1491 said:


> Dutch fuel tax is € 0,668 per liter, plus 19% VAT. Some 64% of the fuel price exists out of tax. The US fueltax is a laughter compared to the Dutch fueltax.
> 
> But i heard, in Venezuela, it costs around € 0,03 per liter, that is about 5 dollarcents.


Yes it is true... it's very cheap here and because of that we have too much cars in the streets, then we have things like this:










those are repaired and aren't everywhere but i just post the picture because the one posted early on this post seemed like nothing hehe


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## Alex Von Königsberg

You realise the difference between a city street and a motorway, don't you? You may find same potholes in the US cities too, but on the motorways these potholes would be unacceptable.


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## pwalker

*Whaaa?*



getontrac said:


> The US is broke. Our economy and expeditures are based on creating debt.
> 
> We've gotten a free ride in a fancy car that's about to end.
> 
> Nate


The U.S. is far from broke. Local jurisdictions may be broke, but that is their fault. Why blame the feds for every local problem? Local prosperity begins with local economic growth. I believe the best answer to fixing our roads comes from the local and state level.


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## getontrac

^I was referring federally. 

Nate


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## Jaxom92

If the federal government were any normal institution, it would be having collection calls every nano-second the debt is that large. But who can call the most influential government in the world on its debt? Deficit spending is an artificially created construct when we're talking this level, so the rules are a bit different.

But getontrac has a good point - a problem that manfests its symptoms in our deteriorating transportation infrastructure. It is my belief that sometime within the next 50-100 years, they'll be a crisis. Our way of life is too expensive and we arn't paying for it. I can't back that up with any hard proof, obviously, so only time will tell. I hopefull got another 60 years on me so maybe I'll see if I'm wrong. Maybe.


----------



## Jakes1

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Sure. This is I-80 near O'Donner Pass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And some zooming for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does it qualify as a bad road? Absolutely. Trust me, you can damage your axle over there.


If this is Donner Pass in California - you must remember one thing... 33feet of snow every winter - temperature extremes. The road is going to take a beating. Lots of heavy trucks. Ice. Melting water. Ice. I spent a couple of months working at the Sugerbowl Resort - and the I80 is definately hammered by severe weather. That makes upkeep more of a challenge. We are luckier down here in South Africa. No real climatic extremes. Just big trucks destroying our roads. With an insane upkeep backlog.


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## Jakes1

I worked at a couple of ski resorts in this tahoe area while studying. Donner Ski Ranch and Sugarbowl. The weather extremes combined with heavy traffic takes a toll on the I-80. In spite of the roadsurface - what a drive! And with 33 feet of snow average a year at Donner summit - how hectic is that!? In 2003 we had a single storm dumping 24 feet of snow at the summit - with something like 14-18 feet in truckee... It was crazy.


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## Chicagoago

With this country so vast, and states maintaining their own roads, it's kinda like we're trying to compare the roads in 50 different countries with 50 different geography/climates in one fallow swoop.


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## Chicagoago

It's not really the Federal Government responsible for these roads. They came to the states 50 years ago and said:

"listen - we'll build you these expensive roads to connect the country together, but if we pay for these roads, you need to take care of them".

It's like having someone build you a house, but you have to pay the taxes and keep up on maintenance. It's an awesome deal for the states, but after the roads start to fall apart, they need to tweak their budgets to make sure they can take care of them. Many states have stumbled on coming up with the funds to keep the roads in top quality.

Our government only spends 4.1% of its income on Education, 2% on housing, 20% on healthcare, and transportation is included in this huge "other" which eats up 11% of the Federal budget.

I think a lot of people don't understand that the federal government isn't really responsible for our education system or our road networks. It's mostly the states who are in charge of all "civil" matters. The government is in charge of defense more than anything, making sure old people and sick people at least have some option other than starving in the steets, and coming to the rescue during an emergency.

States are in charge of drawing up plans and getting all the cost estimates of road projects. At that point the state goes to the government and presents a plan costing, say, $100 million. The federal goverment looks it over and says - ok, you pay $50 million of this, and we'll cough up the rest to get it completed. They pay a lot, but its all up to the states to make it happen. They have to get their part, and they have to get it on the feds desk, and they have to get it all planned out and budgeted.

Same with education and all civil services. Even health care is almost entirely private in this country, the feds don't run our lives, they just (try) and protect us from dying in ways that are out of our control.

So in discussing our road networks, it's almost like you're talking about 50 different countries here. Their priorities vary greatly, so it's hard to talk about all our interstates as one equal network.

K, i'm done....


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## Jaxom92

^^ You have a great point. There seems to be a general discourse in this country about changing the role of the federal government. Heck, it's changed considerably from the 50's. One of the larger debates, which you bring up nicely, is the role of the federal government. Given that our national economy is dependant on our network of highways, shouldn't the federal government have some repsonsability? I mean, if we're to properly adress the problem it ought to be addressed on the scale of the problem, which is, on a whole, national.

I think that even though I brought up this issue, and that it is a problem in many places, the severity and the weight of the problem has yet to hit us on a grand scale. I think I said this before, but give it 50 years and then look at what the problems are, especially if we don't deal with it.


----------



## Chicagoago

Exactly, I've driven tens of thousands of miles around our country, and very very rarely have I ever thought consciously "wow, this road really sucks". They might not be amazing and smooth, but as long as my drink doesn't spill, my car doesn't lose a wheel, and my CDs are skipping, I really never think at all about the condition of the road.

People here are just use to it, it's honestly not that disrupting 99% of the time. When it is, people bitch to holy hell and they repave the roads. I-88 in Illinois got to be in HORRIBLE condition a few years ago from some massive freeze-thaw potholes that formed within a few weeks.

People's cars got damaged, they sued, the government paid them for any damage, and then immediately repaved 225KM of interstate all at once when the ground thawed.


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## Rebasepoiss

^Still, again and again I hear americans(and not only) saying that USA is the most powerful country in the world and I think that a country like this should have excellent freeways.


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## sprtsluvr8

Rebasepoiss said:


> ^Still, again and again I hear americans(and not only) saying that USA is the most powerful country in the world and I think that a country like this should have excellent freeways.



I think you could safely say that the U.S. DOES have excellent freeways. If you consider the extent of the highway system, the poorly maintained areas must be a small percentage of the total miles of highway.


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## ChrisZwolle

California is like the 5th biggest economy of the world, so they must be able to repair the I-80 Sacramento - Reno.


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## Billpa

Chicagoago said:


> I-88 in Illinois got to be in HORRIBLE condition a few years ago from some massive freeze-thaw potholes that formed within a few weeks.
> People's cars got damaged, they sued, the government paid them for any damage, and then immediately repaved 225KM of interstate all at once when the ground thawed.


And that, perhaps, is the biggest problem. In western Europe, it would never get to the point where cars were getting damaged. It's the responsibilty of the government and its road agencies to not allow it to get even close to that state of disrepair.


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## Paddington

Can your country build 5 level stack interchanges and 24 lane expressways? If not, I suggest you STFU, and shove some kraut up your ass. :lol:


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## Jaxom92

^^ If the situation arose within weeks as Chicagoago said, then the ability for the government to respond quickly enough is severely hampered, if not impossible. Some of it's merely bureaucratic paper shuffling, but a goodly portion of it is environmental and other regulations that must be met for highway projects.


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## Verso

^^ Estonia is far from being "the most powerful country in the world", nor did Rabasepoiss say anything like that...


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## pwalker

*I-80 over Sierra*

Chris1491, the easy answer is that compared to the multi-million people populated areas, and the main N-S I-5 and 99 corridors, I-80 over the Sierra is relatively low priority. Not sure California cares how easy it is to get over to Nevada to spend their money there! (However, it is a major trucking corridor, and that is important) Probably too simplistic an answer, but at the end of the day, each state has to ascertain what their priorities are. And yes, as someone mentioned earlier, it is quite a task to maintain a high elevation road with extreme winter temps and snowfall.


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## gladisimo

Paddington said:


> Can your country build 5 level stack interchanges and 24 lane expressways? If not, I suggest you STFU, and shove some kraut up your ass. :lol:


24 lane expressways? That sounds immensely inefficient, if nothing else.


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## gladisimo

pwalker said:


> Chris1491, the easy answer is that compared to the multi-million people populated areas, and the main N-S I-5 and 99 corridors, I-80 over the Sierra is relatively low priority. Not sure California cares how easy it is to get over to Nevada to spend their money there! Probably too simplistic an answer, but at the end of the day, each state has to ascertain what their priorities are. And yes, as someone mentioned earlier, it is quite a task to maintain a high elevation road with extreme winter temps and snowfall.


Not part of the interstates, but the US 101 is quite heavily traveled, and many parts of it look like they've been littered with shotgun blasts.


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## Billpa

Paddington said:


> Can your country build 5 level stack interchanges and 24 lane expressways? If not, I suggest you STFU, and shove some kraut up your ass. :lol:


Are you laughing at your own "joke"?

Anyway...people keep talking about the freeze/thaw issues in places like the Sierra Nevada. Roads can be built to withstand that sort of thing, if the agency so chooses....So in my opinion, that's really not a good excuse.


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## ADCS

Billpa said:


> Are you laughing at your own "joke"?
> 
> Anyway...people keep talking about the freeze/thaw issues in places like the Sierra Nevada. Roads can be built to withstand that sort of thing, if the agency so chooses....So in my opinion, that's really not a good excuse.


Examples?


----------



## Billpa

Maybe they should speak with Colorado:


----------



## ADCS

Billpa said:


> Maybe they should speak with Colorado:


I've driven on those roads several times personally, and they can be just as bad as the Sierra. Those were recently repaved, not to mention the gateway to the state's most important tourist region. It's obvious that Colorado would spend a ton of money on them, while I-80 in California (which is primarily to take money out of state) would be less of a priority.


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## Billpa

Ok, then I guess it's impossible.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

I just returned from my trip to Washington and Idaho, where I drove roughly 300 km in a rented car. Just a couple of obervations: 
Road pavement is not as smooth as on some well-maintained roads in California, but at the same time, there are no such disasters as the I-80
Road signs are more standardised and easily understandable. All signs point to a city, not only the route number
Drivers are better disciplined and more courteous than in California
Tiny Chevy Aveo is a nice car. Too bad they didn't have a manual one


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## Jean Luc

In places like the Sierra Nevadas which have freezing temperatures and heavy snowfall is it possible to carry out road maintenance and construction all year round or only in summer when it's snow-free? If the latter then roadwork is only possible for a few months of the year, meaning that any improvements will take longer than in places with more temperate climates, unless they deploy large numbers of men and machines to do the work.


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## Billpa

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> [*]Road signs are more standardised and easily understandable. All signs point to a city, not only the route number[/list]


I get the feeling California's always been different- 
no exit numbers for the longest time, US highway "cutout" shields, big buttons to divide lanes as opposed to painted lines, etc...


----------



## Chicagoago

Billpa said:


> And that, perhaps, is the biggest problem. In western Europe, it would never get to the point where cars were getting damaged. It's the responsibilty of the government and its road agencies to not allow it to get even close to that state of disrepair.


It didn't develop over time, the temperature that spring was going up and down and up and down, and it was very wet. The road kept expanding/contracting with all the water and 140 miles of it was broken apart. They came through and repaved it all, but they couldn't do it IMMEDIATELY for whatever reasons they have. I believe the state actually went back and got money from the asphalt supplier since there was obviously something wrong with the previous batch that made the road split apart so fast.


----------



## Chicagoago

The EU has 53,114 KM of motorways covering a population (the stats were for the 15 member EU, which has over 83% of the moterways in Europe ) 392,201,538.

That's 7,384 people for each KM of motorway.

The US has 75,376 KM of interstates (and countless other KM's of limited access highways that aren't actually INTERSTATES) for a population of 301,414,000.

That's 3,999 people per KM of interstate.

That's only 54% of the per person tax base to fund these roads as Europe has. We just don't have the capacity or urgency to have the roads all be in perfect shape.


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## ChrisZwolle

The US has approximatly 94.000 km of road that meet Motorway standards.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> [*]Road signs are more standardised and easily understandable. All signs point to a city, not only the route number


Yeah, i never know why most US exits have only a street name or a road number.

Driving in the US using the road numbers works great, but some more local destinations/cities/neighborhoods would be great. An example: (German style)

What i miss in US signage are good control cities, neighborhood names (they say more than a road name, unless that road is very important) Names in white are local destinations.


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## ChrisZwolle

Oh yeah, those large road number shields look great, but i don't think such large shields belong on regular signage.


----------



## Jaxom92

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> I just returned from my trip to Washington and Idaho, where I drove roughly 300 km in a rented car. Just a couple of obervations:
> Road pavement is not as smooth as on some well-maintained roads in California, but at the same time, there are no such disasters as the I-80
> Road signs are more standardised and easily understandable. All signs point to a city, not only the route number
> Drivers are better disciplined and more courteous than in California
> Tiny Chevy Aveo is a nice car. Too bad they didn't have a manual one


I've never driven in California, so I can't compare drivers to where I live, but they must be pretty bad, because it seems drivers around here aren't very pleasant. I have my bad days too, mind you. :crazy2: 

Did you enjoy your time up in "this neck of the woods" as it were?


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## Nephasto

^^Do you have that number for the EU (15, 25 or 27)?


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## Chicagoago

I don't know the math right now, but the 53K number above was 83.5% of the total for all of Europe. I just segregated it since so much of the network is in the 15 member EU, as opposed to the full Union.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

joaquin said:


> *Does Hawaii have only one major highway on Oahu or all over the islands as well?*


Hawaii has 4 interstates, with the prefix H.

H1 Honolulu - Makakilo City
H2 Pearl City - Wahiawa
H3 Aiea - Kailua/Kane'ohe
H201 Int'l Airport bypass

Those are all on the island of Oahu, other islands doesn't have roads with motorway standards.


----------



## icracked

Chris1491 said:


> Hawaii has 4 interstates, with the prefix H.
> 
> H1 Honolulu - Makakilo City
> H2 Pearl City - Wahiawa
> H3 Aiea - Kailua/Kane'ohe
> H201 Int'l Airport bypass
> 
> Those are all on the island of Oahu, other islands doesn't have roads with motorway standards.


What do you mean by "motorway standard"? The other island have great road ways such as many vast highway systems but they aren't populated enough so they don't have their own interstate.

The only island that doesn't really have a traffic light/road signs is Molokai, other than that all the other islands including of course Oahu, has some of the best-highly modern roads in the world.


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## Billpa

Motorway standard- you know, high-speed, limited access, shoulders, large signs, gentle curves....what's being discussed here.


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## smartlake

I think that rebuilding the current structure is best. I say this because there are a dozen other major projects in Washington that are already "ready" so to speak (compared to the viaduct, where no decision has been made...and probably won't be made for another 4 years).


----------



## icracked

Billpa said:


> Motorway standard- you know, high-speed, limited access, shoulders, large signs, gentle curves....what's being discussed here.


Then yes, the other island does have motorway standard except for one island, Molokai. Hope that clears up the confusion around here.


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## pwalker

The problem with Seattle is that they always seem to down-size projects with little understanding that the population here will continue to grow. Example: Hwy 520 (north floating bridge across Lake Washington), was built for early 1960's population and no forward thinking of increased population. Now, the replacement is being planned at the same early 60's capacity! Just doesn't make sense. I understand there are problems with the neighborhoods around the road, but why not build for the future, not the past? The new 520 and the new Alaska Viaduct need to be built for INCREASED capacity, not current capacity. Nobody can seem to get this done, but from a realistic, sensible standpoint, I truely believe this is the way to proceed.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What other island? There are more. 

My RandMcNally 2006 Road Atlas only gives motorway-standard (interstate) roads for the island of Oahu. But there are some multi lane highways on Maui en Hawaii though.


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## LtBk

The big problem with today's American freeways is not road quality, but rather shitty drivers from the suburbs.


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## Alex Von Königsberg

LtBk said:


> The big problem with today's American freeways is not road quality, but rather shitty drivers from the suburbs.


Oh yeah. The road quality is definitely not the major problem with the American traffic system today. Sometimes I really wonder how come Americans, who always form perfect lines in stores and who are very friendly in person, behave so ignorantly and egoistically behind the wheel? :no: I guess most of it has to do with poor driving training or the complete lack of thereof. I don't think that parents teaching kids how to drive can be considered a proper driving education because most of adults are not good drivers themselves :lol:


----------



## Chicagoago

A lot of it is culture as well. All Americans (except maybe someone growing up in NYC or Chicago or a dense area) are pretty much born thinking that when you turn 16 you get your personal car. It's just what you do, like getting a job. We spend SO much of our lives in cars, everyone develops very confident driving skills, regardless of how good they actually are.

When I meet people they would never ask me if I own a car, they ask me what kind of car I have. When I said I gave it up 3 years ago people either look at me really weird or go "oh wow, that's awesome, I could never do that".

I don't think Americans are really BAD drivers, we just function on a level where almost everyone in our country drives around every day, you just get so use to so it's not something you focus on as being serious at all or a special activity. People are just indifferent to driving, it's as if 100% of the people in the country drive around every day of their lives.

I find in Europe a lot of Americans have a stressful time walking through really dense busy packs of rush hour pedestrians in large cities. We are, as a society, not use to walking around in large groups. I see lots of tourists in NYC who really piss me off because they totally have no clue about the culture of pedestrian street traffic. Blocking streets, all walking side by side, walking slow, running into people.

Put those same people behind the wheel and they might do stupid things, but they would be very comfortable, to the point of seeming to be very "bad drivers".


----------



## pwalker

^^ Some good observations. Most Americans are polite in person, but get them behind the wheel and all bets are off. Perhaps the fact that the U.S. is still a relatively young country compared to most Europeon countries has something to do with it. I also believe there are certain stresses involved in the U.S. culture that cause many American drivers to release this tension with bad, and rude driving in the anonymity of their automobiles.


----------



## gladisimo

pwalker said:


> ^^ Some good observations. Most Americans are polite in person, but get them behind the wheel and all bets are off. Perhaps the fact that the U.S. is still a relatively young country compared to most Europeon countries has something to do with it. I also believe there are certain stresses involved in the U.S. culture that cause many American drivers to release this tension with bad, and rude driving in the anonymity of their automobiles.


What does the US being a young country compared to Europe have anything to do with it... lol that's soooo random

I think America also sports a go getter culture, and when people dont get where they want at their speed, they get impatient and start cutting people off everywhere... sometimes these drivers are soo irresponsible.

Anyway, it also arises out of a necessity for cars, regardless of driver skill or desire to drive, nearly everyone has to drive, whether they want to or not, because of necessity, this brings people that are not the best drivers, or those that dont even want to drive, etc. into the roadways.


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## ChrisZwolle

In Europe, it's quite rare to have a car when you are 18. I had one when i was 18, but i was one of the few. Most student's can't afford a car, since owning and driving one in Europe is multiple times more expensive than in the US. 
Most people don't buy a car unless they've got a well paid or fulltime job.


----------



## Jean Luc

Chicagoago said:


> I see lots of tourists in NYC who really piss me off because they totally have no clue about the culture of pedestrian street traffic. Blocking streets, all walking side by side, walking slow, running into people.


Maybe they're from small cities or rural towns where they don't have to contend with large crowds on the streets, that's if they walk at all.


----------



## Chicagoago

Jean Luc said:


> Maybe they're from small cities or rural towns where they don't have to contend with large crowds on the streets, that's if they walk at all.


Exactly, other than the downtown areas of our largest cities, most Americans aren't walking around in crowds on any given day. People leave their house, drive to work, walk into the building and work, and then go home after work. Sure there are people in stores, but there isn't the highly developed culture of how to quickly more around in large crowds on the street like in NYC or downtown Chicago (or Europe). It's the same when tourists try and use the subway, they just don't understand the small random acts you do on public transit to make it run more efficiently.

Most people driving around dont' WANT to be driving, they have to to get from point A to point B. Lots of time if you're running late or there's traffic, people get fussy and act stupid. Like waiting for a subway in London when they're running on a delay, people get pissy.


----------



## sprtsluvr8

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Oh yeah. The road quality is definitely not the major problem with the American traffic system today. Sometimes I really wonder how come Americans, who always form perfect lines in stores and who are very friendly in person, behave so ignorantly and egoistically behind the wheel? :no: I guess most of it has to do with poor driving training or the complete lack of thereof. I don't think that parents teaching kids how to drive can be considered a proper driving education because most of adults are not good drivers themselves :lol:


How ironic...such an ignorant and egotistical generalization about "Americans behaving ignorantly and egotistically". I lived in Europe for a year and until then I had never seen such reckless, carefree driving in my life. I'm not saying European drivers are maniacs because I wouldn't make such a sweeping, misguided statement. But I would say that traffic overall was a nightmare compared to traffic in the U.S. I guess it depends on what one is accustomed to...


----------



## gladisimo

honestly, I think Americans in general are not bad drivers, but a larger proportion of them are selfish assholes who think they own the road.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

sprtsluvr8 said:


> I would say that traffic overall was a nightmare compared to traffic in the U.S.


Yeah, driving in Europe is not for everyone. You have to be constantly aware of your surrounding and use your brain in planning the next maneuvre. Otherwise, it will be a nightmare. I agree.

The biggest difference between American and European drivers is that the latter don't think they own the road and don't mind if you want to drive faster than them.


----------



## kub86

^^Increasing capacity simply increases unnecessary traffic.

I found this quote from a siegel article on ssp:

"Manhattan's West Side Highway, an elevated freeway along the Hudson River, collapsed and was closed in 1973. *When it was closed, 53 percent of the traffic that had used this freeway simply disappeared.* The political establishment took it for granted that they had to replace it with a bigger and better freeway, but citizen resistance delayed the replacement for two decades, and finally even the politicians saw that the city was getting along quite well without any freeway here. Instead of replacing the freeway, the city simply added new medians, a waterfront park, and a bicycle path to the surface street here."

It's a phenomenon called "disappearing traffic" when freeways are torn down. EVERYBODY expects crazy traffic jams, but in reality the opposite happens. Why? Because people's driving habits change. Everybody assumes that driving habits will remain the same before and after the viaduct.

We're not going to have a viaduct for 10 years anyway while we tear it down/rebuild it; people are going to realize that the city's doing just fine without one as people adjust to the new environment. Just tear it down for pete's sake!!


----------



## Chicagoago

who DOESN'T love road rage!!!


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## Jaxom92

With the political bullcrap running around this project, I think an earthquake will destroy the thing for us before we can decide on what to do with it.


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## pwalker

kub86 said:


> ^^Increasing capacity simply increases unnecessary traffic.
> 
> I found this quote from a siegel article on ssp:
> 
> "Manhattan's West Side Highway, an elevated freeway along the Hudson River, collapsed and was closed in 1973. *When it was closed, 53 percent of the traffic that had used this freeway simply disappeared.* The political establishment took it for granted that they had to replace it with a bigger and better freeway, but citizen resistance delayed the replacement for two decades, and finally even the politicians saw that the city was getting along quite well without any freeway here. Instead of replacing the freeway, the city simply added new medians, a waterfront park, and a bicycle path to the surface street here."
> 
> It's a phenomenon called "disappearing traffic" when freeways are torn down. EVERYBODY expects crazy traffic jams, but in reality the opposite happens. Why? Because people's driving habits change. Everybody assumes that driving habits will remain the same before and after the viaduct.
> 
> We're not going to have a viaduct for 10 years anyway while we tear it down/rebuild it; people are going to realize that the city's doing just fine without one as people adjust to the new environment. Just tear it down for pete's sake!!


Well, I have heard that argument, we have different philosophies about this. I also don't think you can compare Manhattan and Seattle. NY has a huge transit system, Seattle has Metro busses. The percentage of New Yorkers using public transit is much higher than in Seattle, where they are still in love with their cars. If Seattle doesn't increase capacity things will get worse, just the way they have by coincidentally "not increasing capacity" the past 35 years!


----------



## Xusein

Going back to the remarks about quality depending by state...

I drove to Vermont for a ski trip on Saturday, on Interstate 91, which goes from CT to there directly. The skiing was great, but driving there sucked.

Interstate 91 in Connecticut is okay, not great but decent...there were 6 lanes to the state line, and the road quality was smooth..but when I went to Massachusetts, it automatically got WORSE, with the pavement making crazy noises, not much of shoulder, and really, really old signage.

It got even worse when I got to Vermont...just horrible. It truly depends from state to state how bad the quality of the road is.


----------



## sprtsluvr8

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Yeah, driving in Europe is not for everyone. You have to be constantly aware of your surrounding and use your brain in planning the next maneuvre. Otherwise, it will be a nightmare. I agree.
> 
> The biggest difference between American and European drivers is that the latter don't think they own the road and don't mind if you want to drive faster than them.


Yet another condescending generalization..."duh, do I really have to be aware of my surroundings? I don't feel like using my brain." People should really use their brains before posting their bitter anti-American thoughts. Your nasty attitude is noted, and your ignorant observations on the superior driving skills of Europeans is amusing. One has to laugh at such things...


----------



## Paddington

Von Krautburger acts like he's der fuhrer of der forum. He makes several posts here each day, decrying the quality of American roads compared to the "superior" German roads constructed by the master race. The funniest was his thread on the mountains of NorCal, where he was surrounded by all this spectacular scenery on I-80 but what he chose to take pictures of was some cracks in the road. :lol:


----------



## pwalker

Paddington, that is a little unfair. This German poster evidently lives now in the Bay Area, and has offered some good observations on US highways. This site is so much better without the name calling...just an opinion. (BTW, this poster had GOOD things to say about the Northwest).


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Paddington said:


> He makes several posts here each day, decrying the quality of American roads compared to the "superior" German roads constructed by the master race.


First of all, no name calling please. Second, can you show me a single post where I said something about the quality of German roads? Anything about German roads at all? I said that Italian autostradas had so far the best quality I have seen in both Europe and America. 




> The funniest was his thread on the mountains of NorCal, where he was surrounded by all this spectacular scenery on I-80 but what he chose to take pictures of was some cracks in the road. :lol:


You obviously did not understand what I told you in that thread. Go and re-read it.


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## pwalker

Alex, good for you for defending your posts. 

It would be great to have you in the great Northwest! Sounds like that is where you would be most comfortable. Welcome.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

pwalker said:


> Alex, good for you for defending your posts.
> 
> It would be great to have you in the great Northwest! Sounds like that is where you would be most comfortable. Welcome.


Thanks!  My fiancee and I believe that crossing Columbia River would be a fresh start for us. Eventually we want to settle somewhere near Seattle because of great scenery and job market.


----------



## sprtsluvr8

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Yeah, driving in Europe is not for everyone. You have to be constantly aware of your surrounding and use your brain in planning the next maneuvre. Otherwise, it will be a nightmare. I agree.
> 
> The biggest difference between American and European drivers is that the latter don't think they own the road and don't mind if you want to drive faster than them.


People are actually supportive of Alex for posting this arrogant nonsense? There is no defending such garbage...


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

So far, you haven't written anything useful but constant insults to me. I wrote my observations based on 3 year experience driving in Europe and 6 years driving in the USA. If you call it a garbage, then at least try to provide your reasoning. Until then I will ignore your posts.


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## Jaxom92

I thought you had excellent posts, as well as insightful things to say on the topic. You didn't insult anybody either. And if it truely matters at this point, being the topic's OP, I think I have at least some say in the quality of posts eh?


----------



## sprtsluvr8

My sentiments exactly...you are ignored. I can't stand snotty arrogance. I don't have to explain myself to you or anyone for that.


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## sprtsluvr8

You should re-read some of his posts then...they were offensive and insulting, as well as inaccurate.


----------



## Jaxom92

You have a good point. There are enough other options within New York that the displaced drivers are disseminated in a non-intrusive manner throughout the rest of the system, highways and transit. The structure of Seattle's built environment, roads and communting patterns, prevent such a displacement from having as little affect as it would in New York. We have only two other major freeways and an assortment of city roads that'll take up the excess traffic. People will still have to get to where they want to go. Not to mention east-west cross overs between our north-south routes are limited due mainly to geography. Oftentimes, people will take a particular north-south route because it get's them closest to their destination without having to go too far east or west. Losing 1/3 of our north-south capacity will have severe impacts.

Essentially, both statements are true, but inherently specific to the environment from which they orginated.

In any case, the viaduct needs attention, and whatever attention it gets, be it rebuild or tunnel or surface option or what have you, we'll be dealing with the displaced traffic.


----------



## Billpa

I agree Jaxom92. Alex comments have been quite useful, on point and NEVER offensive. Having driven in Europe I can understand where a lot of his points are coming from. And I've also noticed a lot of Americans driving more aggressively than ever in recent years. The PA state police, where I live, started a program aimed at aggresive driving some time back....they didn't do that because it ISN'T a problem.


----------



## LosAngelesMetroBoy

here is the thing most people still dont understand about america, our roads aint the smoothest in the world, but they work. Its not comfortbale to drive over donner pass, but people do. You cant break an axel or loose a car in those cracks, although they do make the drive a litttle more uncomfortbale. We buy thicker tires that can hande a little jaring every now and again, and guess what, we move on. Maybe the rest of the world should too.

But the argument of roads based on states, i think wyoming and south carolina have some of the best roads, they may not be the smoothest, but there mostly straight and easy to get on and off.


----------



## Æsahættr

Why did they build the viaduct in the first place, the rest of the road it's on other than the viaduct isn't even access controlled, just the viaduct and tunnel section are!

Just get rid of that road next to the viaduct and the viaduct itself and turn it into a Santa Monica Blvd-looking avenue.


----------



## pwalker

lotrfan55345 said:


> Why did they build the viaduct in the first place, the rest of the road it's on other than the viaduct isn't even access controlled, just the viaduct and tunnel section are!
> 
> Just get rid of that road next to the viaduct and the viaduct itself and turn it into a Santa Monica Blvd-looking avenue.


Why did they build the viaduct in the first place? Because prior to it being built in the early 1950's, there was no main north-south route through the city except city streets. Before the viaduct was built Highway 99 connected up with 4th Avenue near Boeing Field, and up Aurora to Green Lake, (then the north city limits), and continued on its current course up to Everett. Even back then, this route was cumbersome and slow. The growth in the city demanded a better, high speed route, and the viaduct was built. 

It can be argued whether it was built at the proper location, but it needed to connect with Highway 99, and the 4th avenue route wasn't far from where the viaduct eventually was built. I am guessing the thinking at the time was the waterfront would disrupt the least amount of businesses and homes. Later, I-5 took a further east route, (and destroyed thousands of businesses and homes) and to this day, the viaduct and I-5 are the only main north-south routes through the city. Tearing it down with no replacement, in my opinion, would be a disaster. But many in Seattle are argueing about it, and that is slowing everything down.


----------



## Æsahættr

Thanks for the explanation!
It clears up a lot, but still, wouldn't a nice-looking blvd still be an acceptable solution? Maybe they can put two/four-lane underpasses in the middle of the boulevard at major intersections, so the traffic wouldn't be too snarled.


----------



## Minato ku

Chris1491 said:


> Traffic near larger US cities are significant higher than their European counterparts, however, European motorways are often overcrowded and mostly not wider dan 2x4 lanes, while 12 or more lanes is common in US cities.


Exactly that I said, the traffic in europe is not less important,

For me 100,000 cars for 4 lanes in Europe, this is 25,000 cars per lane.
and 300,000 cars for 12 lanes in USA, this 25,000 cars per lane.


----------



## BoulderGrad

I've lived on both coasts, the center of the country, driven completely across it more than 10 times on most routes north and south, and all I can say like many others before is IT VARIES. 

Maryland had excellently maintained roads, they were just horribly over crowded (anyone driven on the beltway or I-95 during rush hour in DC?). The pavement was pretty smooth, no big cracks or anything, but just far too many people. Take a quick drive north to PA, and your car immediately dives into a pothole. I used to joke that i could FEEL the border between the two states on I-70, just because the roads turned to crap so quickly. I think PA is actually famous (or infamous, however you want to call it) for it.

Colorado's roads were interesting in that there were a lot of mountain passes, and freeways through canyons etc. I-70 through Glennwood Canyon was a very interesting drive. All roads seemed to be well maintained, but the pavement was maybe a little rough.

In Seattle, my car has developed so many rattles and squeaks just from being shaken to death on the crappy roads and highways through the city. But then you get just a few miles north to the Lynnwood and Everett area, and its like you've gone deaf from how quiet the road is. They just finished a large paving project, and the road runs great now. 

I know Seattle is in for a big mess this august because they are CLOSING I-5 North just south of downtown for up to a month to fix failing bridge joints. Its the first time I've ever seen a city agency actually recommend taking a vacation for that month (yes, they are actually asking people to get the eff out of the city).

But yes, it all comes down to state priorities.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah borders...

here is the Dutch border with Belgium in the extreme south of NL:


----------



## BoulderGrad

I'm curious to see what effect light rail will have on traffic. It itself will basically become a main north south route, and once the UW link is complete, thats 70,000 fewer drivers on either I-5 or 99.

Also, I don't get the whole traffic apocalypse theory of taking out the viaduct, and why everyone assumes it needs to be replaced with a 50 mph freeway. It's 1 mile long.... time to travel 1 mile at 50mph: 1.2 min, at 35 mph: 1.7 min. Maybe add 5 minutes for waiting at signals? your "commute" just went from 1.2 minutes to 6.7 minutes... oh drat... thats 5.5 minutes of my life I want back. I'm not saying it will be perfect, but I think a little inconvenience is worth getting that ugly piece of crap off the waterfront.


----------



## Billpa

Based on the lighting I assume that the photographer was in Belgium?  

I also believe Belgian roads vary based on the region they're in; i.e. Flanders, etc.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Billpa said:


> Based on the lighting I assume that the photographer was in Belgium?
> 
> I also believe Belgian roads vary based on the region they're in; i.e. Flanders, etc.


Yes it's in Belgium, those guys have some kind of a light fetisj or something :lol: 

Well, until recently, almost every Belgian road was just crap. No wonder; they'd build a road in the sixties/seventies and never looked back at it in maintenance. 

Well, that is starting to change. Specially in the Wallonie region in the south, major parts of the E25 and E411 are being repaved, or better said; completely rebuild (imagine how bad those roads were), but there are still some horrible motorways leftover.


----------



## Billpa

Interesting.
There are some very good looking photos of Belgian roads here:

http://europe.aaroads.com/belgium/index.htm

It looks like their signage standards, while certainly OK, are not quite up to Dutch standards and will also change based on when they were installed or, again, what region is putting them up.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Those pictures on that site are actually from the better Belgium roads. For instance the E313, E314, E34, E42 are in much worse conditions. When you drive it, it sounds like your car is about to take off.


----------



## Billpa

Maybe they should divert some of the funds from the overhead lighting to pavement maintenance.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Billpa said:


> Maybe they should divert some of the funds from the overhead lighting to pavement maintenance.


Very true :lol: I remember a significant difference when I entered Belgium from Germany. The roads were not as smooth and the signage was not as clear as German ones, but lighting was unbelievable.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Their lightning power comes from power that is leftover at nuclear power stations.


----------



## Minato ku

Belgium motorways are know for their bad quality.
The worst in western europe :lol:


----------



## Jaxom92

pwalker said:


> Well, I've never advocated rebuilding the viaduct "just for the views"...Views are a bonus from highway design, but shouldn't be a justification for highway design.
> 
> I believe Seattle needs to improve its north-south corridors, both with I-5 and the waterfront. Anyone familiar with I-5 through Seattle knows that about 80% of the time it is a bottleneck. There needs to be a total redesign there, but unfortunately, other projects (520, and the Viaduct), have priority. I believe that shutting down the viaduct (either temporarily or permanently) will just divert more traffic to an already clogged I-5. What is truely needed is an expanded I-5, (with fewer lane endings/restrictions, etc.), combined with an expanded Viaduct-99, frankly tunnel or elevated doesn't matter to me (although the cost will be higher with tunnel). Bottom line is you need these N-S routes in a very narrow land-mass.


I agree with you about I-5. Unfortunately, if we thought replacing the viaduct was expensive, a total redesign of I-5 would be even more so. I have absolutely no experience in financing highway projects, so this is just a random ballpark figure, but 8 billion seems about right to me for something of that scale.


----------



## pwalker

Jaxom92 said:


> I agree with you about I-5. Unfortunately, if we thought replacing the viaduct was expensive, a total redesign of I-5 would be even more so. I have absolutely no experience in financing highway projects, so this is just a random ballpark figure, but 8 billion seems about right to me for something of that scale.


I'm not sure either, but to do it right will be expensive. In my opinion I-5 needs to be rebuilt from 520 south to Dearborn, starting with a new flyover from 520 to the right side of I-5. It would probably make sense to do a SB flyover to 520 at the same time. The I-90 exit needs to be simplified, and NB needs more lanes through downtown. Doubt this this will happen in the next decade or two...perhaps someday.


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## mgk920

The problem with road maintanence and construction here in the USofA is, in my opinion, mostly due to the fact that when taxing fuel was first used as a main source of roadbuilding money, it was never set up to easily respond to inflation. It was set as a straight volume based tax, not a percentage of the price based tax. As inflation happens, proposals to adjust it to keep pace are very unpopular and a favorite target of politicians. The USA's federal fuel tax has not been adjusted since the late 1980s and now has less than half of the real-world buying power that it had when it was last set.

The situation is just as bad, if not worse, in most states.

As for the reason why Belgium has lights on all of their motorways, the best explanation that I have heard is that the country did a study on safety and found that the cost of lighting was less than the cost of crashes that could occur without them. YMMV.

Mike


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## Alex Von Königsberg

I guess if a country is relatively small, has a high population density and extensive motorway network - then it makes sense to install continuous lighting on every kilometre of the motorway.


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## ChrisZwolle

Thank god we didn´t do that in The Netherlands. There is enough light pollution here at night. 

There aren´t already places where you can´t see city lights at night, since there are hardly any places more than 20-30km away from a larger city.


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## Chicagoago

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> I guess if a country is relatively small, has a high population density and extensive motorway network - then it makes sense to install continuous lighting on every kilometre of the motorway.


Yeah, imagine if you put lights up on I-94 from Fargo to Billings. That stretch basically just has one urban area of 90,000, and covers almost 1,000 KM's. What a waste of electricity!


----------



## relâmpago

mgk920 said:


> The problem with road maintanence and construction here in the USofA is, in my opinion, mostly due to the fact that when taxing fuel was first used as a main source of roadbuilding money, it was never set up to easily respond to inflation. It was set as a straight volume based tax, not a percentage of the price based tax. As inflation happens, proposals to adjust it to keep pace are very unpopular and a favorite target of politicians. The USA's federal fuel tax has not been adjusted since the late 1980s and now has less than half of the real-world buying power that it had when it was last set.
> 
> The situation is just as bad, if not worse, in most states.
> 
> As for the reason why Belgium has lights on all of their motorways, the best explanation that I have heard is that the country did a study on safety and found that the cost of lighting was less than the cost of crashes that could occur without them. YMMV.
> 
> Mike


Not necessarily as I found roads / highways in Minnesota were better than in Illinois! I think a lot of it has to do with big internal corruption that is there in the bureaucracy of big cities.


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## Rebasepoiss

Chris1491 said:


> Thank god we didn´t do that in The Netherlands. There is enough light pollution here at night.
> 
> There aren´t already places where you can´t see city lights at night, since there are hardly any places more than 20-30km away from a larger city.


I thank my mum and dad for living in a country where I can see the stars .


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## Alex Von Königsberg

Well, there is always the last solution - charging drivers directly (like in most of Europe) either by installing tollbooths (France) or introducing vignettes (Austria). I am not saying that the USA should do it right now, but it is certainly an option.


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## 612bv3

From what I heard the traffic wasn't bad since public transit was free on Monday. I guess a lot of people rode the BART to SF. So far this hasn't affected me at all, except when this man got lost from the detour on Sunday and ended up in Alameda. He asked me how to get to 580. I gave him this WTF look. I didn't know how he could have gotten lost and ended up in Alameda. He was also looking for Grand Ave.


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## Chicagoago

The US already has 8,615 KM's of toll-roads, and hundreds of other bridges that have tolls. They're in over half our states, and have been in use since the 1790's on roads out east.

In 2005, toll roads/bridges brought in $11,818,315,000 in revenue.

Many now are upgraded where a person has a transponder in their car that his hooked up to their bank account. When they drive through where they toll are taken, they don't have to slow down because the toll is taken directly through the transponder. People who don't have a transponder for whatever reason will have to pull off to the right and stop at the booth to pay.

Tollbooth near Chicago with the new transponder readers:










Rendering of the projects when they were under construction a few years ago around Chicago:


----------



## mgk920

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Well, there is always the last solution - charging drivers directly (like in most of Europe) either by installing tollbooths (France) or introducing vignettes (Austria). I am not saying that the USA should do it right now, but it is certainly an option.


We do pay an annual fee to register our cars here in the USA, which varies by state and which, in most states, goes to fund roadbuilding and maintenance. Here in Wisconsin, that costs me USA$55/year plus an additional USA$15/year because I have personalized numbers on my car's plates. In exchange for that USA$70, I get a little year sticker (a 'vignette') to put on the rear plate to show that the registration is up to date.

However, under the 'Full Faith and Credit' clause in the USA's Constitution, along with parts relating to interstate commerce and duties, plates that are valid and current in one state are recognized as such in all of the other states and no other special tax can be charged to just drive through, other than for direct tolls.

There has been discussion of increasing Wisconsin's plate fees to raise more money for state road works, too.

Mike


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

mgk920 said:


> However, under the 'Full Faith and Credit' clause in the USA's Constitution, along with parts relating to interstate commerce and duties, plates that are valid and current in one state are recognized as such in all of the other states and no other special tax can be charged to just drive through, other than for *direct tolls*.


That is exactly what I meant by proposing to charge motorists "directly". The registration sticker you put every year on your number plate allows you to drive on public roads, and it has a fixed costs regardless of whether you drive 2 km or 40,000 km per year. Vignette, on the other hand, can be purchased for 10 days and up to 1 year. Vignette is needed only to drive on motorways in Austria; other roads are free. As far as I remember, vignette for 10 days (under €10) was much cheaper than paying tolls in France or Italy to travel in a single day.

I should mention that if tolls were introduced for all motorways, I would be the first one to suffer since I use motorway to get to my university every single day :lol:


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## Billpa

*America's Highway Debris Problem (wide image!)*










NY Times reports on the number of things that fall out of moving vehicles and litter up the place...sometimes causing a dangerous driving situation.










an estimated 140,000 cubic yards of road debris a year. That is enough to fill 8,750 garbage trucks, which would extend for 45 miles, said Tamie McGowen, a spokeswoman for Caltrans, the state transportation department. And it is increasingly hazardous, experts say.


More here


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## Verso

^ :crazy:


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## ChrisZwolle

check some Belgium motorways. Looks more like the average garbage dump than a nice motorway. I saw numerous tires, concrete, and even burned-out cars on the E34.


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## gladisimo

Haha, I see paper boxes that falls off trucks a lot, and once a chair fell from a truck in the middle of the freeway, quite dangerous as everyone braked to avoid it.


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## Neutral!

I've seen a latter that fell on top a car in the middle of rush hour. Some rock or something, could have been a small rock, bolt, nail hit my car once and made a small scratch. It didn't occur to me that I could get the vehicle's license plate number and sue only after it was too late. 

BTW:That's not as many pieces of paper as I would have imagined.


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## smartlake

I was driving on I-5 in Seattle, and I saw a Christmas tree, in the middle of the northbound lanes. The odd thing was that it was June, and that remnants of tinsel and glass bulbs were on the tree. Oddly enough, the same thing happened to me in Idaho, except in September.


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## Jaxom92

Yeah, the disrespect of intentional discarded items along the roadways makes me sick.

This is mildly off topic, but what is the worse "lost load" you've seen/heard of on the highways?

The worse in my area was hot roofing tar spilled all over one direction of I-5 in the middle of Seattle. Freeway was shut down for most of the day to get that off.

While this isn't a highway, it illustrates my point well (they are potatoes, by the way):


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## hkskyline

*Bay Area traffic rebounding from highway collapse *
10 May 2007

OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) - San Francisco Bay area commuters are resuming their old driving habits nearly two work weeks after a tanker truck fire hobbled one of the nation's busiest freeway interchanges, regional transportation officials said. 

Traffic on the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge Wednesday was 5 percent below the daily averages recorded before key stretches of the MacArthur Maze were damaged. Traffic dropped by as much as 18 percent in the days after the April 29 accident, officials said. 

"Traffic levels on the bridge are still below what they were before the maze accident, but folks are finding their way back to their cars," said John Goodwin, a spokesman for the Metropolitan Transportation Commission. 

Part of the rebound is probably due to Monday's reopening of the roadway connecting westbound Interstate 80 to southbound Interstate 880, Goodwin said. The collapsed overpass connecting eastbound Interstate 80 to eastbound Interstate 580 was expected to be replaced by late June. 

When a fire from an overturned gasoline truck severely damaged two sections of a cloverleaf interchange, officials initially warned it could take months and countless inconveniences for drivers to repair them. But neither scenario has come to pass. 

At the same time, proponents of mass transit hope persuades some commuters to permanently trade in their cars for trains and buses. The Bay Area's light rail system had 358,000 riders on Tuesday, far short of the one-day record of 375,200 set May 1, but still encouraging, said Bay Area Rapid Transit spokesman Linton Johnson. 

"We haven't kept all the new riders we had, but we still have about half of them, "Johnson said. 

Al Romero, an Oakland resident who works in San Francisco, started taking BART after the tanker accident and hasn't decided whether he'll get back behind the wheel for a solo commute. 

"I don't miss the traffic," Romero said. "But it's still a hassle. I have to drive to BART, and then when I get to the city I have to walk about six blocks to work."


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## FastFerrari

so reason are...we have alot of cars....many house holds have two or three cars...with kids from 16 to 65 driving...public transit that run 18 - 24 hours a day...not to mention 18 and 20 "wheelers"...big trucks...that always run...here in San Antonio,TexaS..we have add freeway cojestion cause of these truck from Mexico...alot of commerce comes on truck...that are bigger than ones in Europe and Asia.


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## FastFerrari

Construction at San Antonio's, TeXaS - USA Loop 410 and US 281 interchang with ramps on the norhtside along with add 4 lanes to Loop 410...was 6 expanding to 10 lanes.
Friday May 18, 2007...410/281 interchange w/ ramps















[/QUOTE]


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## Gaeus

*Springfield Interchange, VA - DC Area (I-95, 495, 395 Intersection)*

OK guys. Seems like DC people is not posting its pride, the SPRINGFIELD INTERCHANGE!!! (maybe they are all stuck in a typical DC traffic!!!) The biggest interchange in Northeast US and soon will be the biggest in Atlantic Coast (sorry to say this Atlanteans). Some people say that it will become the biggest in United States or the World but they are just dreaming. A max of 16 lane intersection and the construction is not over yet.

I am sorry to say that I only got a PDF version for now but I will update it later with true images.  

http://www.springfieldinterchange.com/pdf/map.pdf


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## Gaeus

*Its Big... Its Wide... Its Complex .... Its Old ... the Weather Change ... the Funds*

We are talking about the biggest highway complex of any country in the entire world and only 10% are tolled, with the most numbers of vehicles of any country in the entire world, a country with one of the most complex weather changes, the second oldest freeway ever after Germany's Autobahn and a very complicated state funded maintenance. Of course, its hard to maintain it but it is not possible. It will just take time unless if you got the Magic Touch


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## mgk920

PotatoGuy said:


> *Here ya go Naga:*


VERY interesting here in that the big green sign in these two images was modified by someone other than CalTrans (the state agency in charge of roads in California). Someone whom was handy at art got tired of getting lost because of missing info from the sign. He then took it upon himself to make the changes needed to correct that problem and in August of 2001, added the 'NORTH/I-5' to the sign. He did such a good job that CalTrans itself did not realize that anything was done to it (or that it was done by CalTrans sign crews) for nearly a year and when they did find out, they determined that it as such a useful improvement and of such good quality that it was allowed to remain and at last report, it is all still there.

Amazing.

:cheers1:

Mike


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## Alex Von Königsberg

I actually saw a TV programme (I think on TLC, but may be mistaken) about this story a while back. The man used some pretty advanced technique to create the shield, and it was by no means an easy job to do. I think he deserves a recognition.

As for the CalTrans, sometimes they themselves do such a bad job that it leaves you wondering who was that freelance painter to create such a crap. I will take a picture of CA-99/US-50 interchange to show what I mean.


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## hkskyline

*Restricting Mexican Trucks on US Highways*

*House overwhelmingly votes to put restrictions on Mexican trucks on U.S. highways *
15 May 2007

WASHINGTON (AP) - The House voted overwhelmingly Tuesday to delay a Bush administration plan to allow Mexican trucks full access to U.S. highways. 

The trucks would have to be declared safe first, the lawmakers said, and Mexico would have to give U.S. truckers the same access south of the border. 

The House voted 411-3 to approve a three-year Department of Transportation pilot program that would restrict opening the border to 100 carriers based in Mexico. They would be allowed to use a maximum of 1,000 vehicles under the pilot program. 

The Bush administration wanted to start a pilot program this year that would run for a year before fully opening the border to Mexican trucks. 

The House bill, however, specifies criteria for the pilot program before it can start, including setting up an independent panel to evaluate the test program and getting certification from the inspector general that safety and inspection requirements have been met. 

A Mexican government spokesman viewed the House action in the light of NAFTA, a free-trade agreement binding the two countries and Canada. 

"While the legislative process has yet to conclude, the decision today by the House of Representatives raises questions about the commitment of most of its members to comply with international trade obligations," said Rafael Laveaga, communication director at the Mexican Embassy in Washington. 

The Transportation Department says it could be as late as 2008 before Congress's criteria are met, according to the Congressional Budget Office. 

Lawmakers said their major concern is whether Mexican trucks, often older than U.S. cargo vehicles, and Mexican drivers will be able to meet rigorous U.S. safety standards. 

"We do not need 90,000-pound unguided missiles on our highways," said Rep. Robin Hayes, R-N.C. 

American trucking companies have spent years getting their vehicles up to the Transportation Department standards, lawmakers said. Letting Mexican trucks across the border without making them meet those standards is wrong, they said. 

"We're going to have a major accident somewhere, and people are going to say, 'How did this happen?" said Rep. Bob Filner, D-Calif. 

Added Rep. Candice Miller, R-Mich: "We need to ensure that this program only takes places after the Mexican companies meet the same conditions that American companies do." 

Lawmakers also complained that allowing Mexican trucks greater access will cost American truckers their jobs. 

"You can get a Mexican truck driver to work for a heck of a lot less than a Teamster in the United States, and you can get a Mexican dock worker to work for a heck of a lot less than a longshoreman in the United States and that's what this is ultimately designed to do," said Rep. Peter DeFazio, D-Ore. 

The Teamsters, the Sierra Club, Public Citizen and the Environmental Law Foundation sued in federal court in April to block the pilot program, citing safety and environmental concerns. 

"We don't know how safety laws such as hours of service and drug testing would be enforced," Teamsters President Jim Hoffa said. "This vote by the House repudiates those questionable attempts to open our borders without adequate safeguards." 

The Bush administration had planned to run a yearlong pilot program that would allow Mexican trucks beyond the current 20-mile limit from the border but the launch was halted after complaints from Congress. 

Since 1982, trucks have had to stop within the buffer zone and transfer their loads to U.S. truckers to take them into the country. The legislation would allow Mexican drivers to take their loads from Mexico to any point within the country. 

Supporters of the plan say letting more Mexican trucks on U.S. highways will save American consumers hundreds of millions of dollars. They include many in the trucking industry, the Bush administration and lawmakers who favor the North American Free Trade Agreement, or NAFTA. 

Access to all U.S. highways was promised by 2000 under the 1993 North American Free Trade Agreement, as was access through Mexico for U.S. carriers. That aspect has been stalled by lawsuits and disagreements between the two countries, though Canadian and U.S. trucks travel freely across the northern border. 

------ 

Associated Press writer Suzanne Gamboa contributed to this report.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> This is an obvious advantage over European local highways because the latter will almost never become motorways.


Yeah it definatly is. We are stuck on crowded one lane roads for miles. An exeption is Belgium, where a lot of roads are 4laned outside the Motorway network. 

Well, i like that most Interstates near cities have 4 or 5 lanes per direction. We are always stuck on 2 or maybe 3 lanes per direction, even near big cities. 

US Interstates have a much better quantity, but i'm not sure about the quality. We do have narrow roads, but the quality of them is usually very good. 

But i think i'd rather have more lanes and flowing traffic, than looking on the same piece of asphalt for hours in a traffic jam.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There is a keep right law in The Netherlands too, and it is followed quite good on 2x2 motorways, but the more lanes it has, the less it is followed. 

We have a 2x5 lanes stretch southwest of Amsterdam, and some people are driving like 90km/h on the 4th lane, while being overtaken on the right side. In The Netherlands, there is a fine on that. 

We call such guys "left-stickers". (Dutch: linksplakkers).


----------



## LtBk

Rail Claimore said:


> Because it's easier to enforce speeding laws, and they bring in more revenue.


Some states like CO, IL, and lately FL is starting to enforce this law(i think).
IMO, left lane bandits are biggest threats to driver's safety in freeways.


----------



## pilotos

Greek drivers and lane discipline: "What did you said?", probably an unknown sentence for a high percent of us.
Several times i meet someone driving slow in the left lane, if the road is 3 laned most likely they will use the 2nd lane and the 3rd the 1st is like it doesn't exist.


----------



## Rail Claimore

LtBk said:


> Some states like CO, IL, and lately FL is starting to enforce this law(i think).
> IMO, left lane bandits are biggest threats to driver's safety in freeways.


FL would need to the most with all the old people driving. I know it's state law to keep right in IL, but I never saw it enforced when I was living in Chicago earlier this year (I'll be moving back in August). But then again, it seems drivers up there actually do have better lane discipline.


----------



## Gaeus

Patrick said:


> these signs are pretty rare, aren' they?


Those signs can only be found in airport grounds, ports/harbor grounds, government-owned grounds (local and federal) and maybe military grounds and but I am not sure of that. Need someone to clarify please


----------



## Patrick

I thnk it is pretty well followed in Germany, on the 2x2 highways, there are only a few fast drivers who don'T want to switch the lane so often. on the 2x3 highways, you can find some undisciplinated drivers on the middle lane, and on the few 2x4 stretches, the left lane is sometimes really empty (maybe beacuse most germans are not used to wide highways since there are only a few kilometers of 2x4 stretches in the whole country). 

overtaking on the right side is strictly forbidden.


----------



## radi6404

Can i know if overtaking on the right lame is allowed in your coutries, i don´t know for bulgaria, there is too few traffic there for motorways, the next car is usually 100+ m away so i did not watch this.


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## arriaca

See min 1:20 :crazy:


----------



## LordMandeep

Well imo the major Interstates like I-90 and I-80 are in really good shape.

I went on the I-81 from I-90 to I-80, it was in great shape, but it was a pain to drive on in the middle of Thunderstorm at night in fog.

However some highways are in terrible shape, like I-95 outside NYC, I-80 when you get to New York city. Actually ever highway in the major cities in the east are very crappy compared in rural areas. 
The worst highway i was on was the I-381. It was like driving alone, in a post apocalyptic world. Didn't see a single sole for 25 miles but we were finally able to drive really fast like 85 mph. However we stayed at the speed limit on the other highways especially I-90.


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## Alex Von Königsberg

Well, I-80 is really really long, mate :lol: It might be good somewhere near the Great Lakes or toward the East Coast, but in Sierra Nevada it has the worst pavement quality I have ever seen on a motorway.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

^^ Cool film! I think they should translate it into English and play on American TV at least 3 times a day :| Except Oregon, maybe...


----------



## eomer

In France, almost 90 % of drivers follow the rule on 2x2 lanes motorways. But, when there is 3 lanes, more than 50 % drive on the center lane. If there is 4 of 5 lanes, it become a big shit.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Nah, French drivers are OK on autoroutes. I still remember following a Dutch driver in Normandie who did not want to move over. I even thought maybe it was an American touristo hiding behind Dutch number plates :lol:


----------



## LtBk

pilotos said:


> Greek drivers and lane discipline: "What did you said?", probably an unknown sentence for a high percent of us.
> Several times i meet someone driving slow in the left lane, if the road is 3 laned most likely they will use the 2nd lane and the 3rd the 1st is like it doesn't exist.


Do they at least yield to the right if you tailgate, flash you lights, or use you left turn signal? Driving slow in left lane is bad enough, not moving over is a bigger crime.


----------



## Astralis

In Croatia most of the drivers follow that rule. Anyway we don't have any 2x3 highways but it will be constructed very soon. Then we'll see if we have a multi lane discipline ... :cheers:


----------



## spacie

New Zealand doesn't as much as it would be nice - most people sit in the centre lanes, and often people go for Sunday drives in the passing lane/fast lane.

The signs that say 'Slow Vehicles Use Left Lane' don't work because no one considers themselves as a slow driver. Bring back the old 'Keep Left Unless Passing' signs and enforce it.


----------



## go_leafs_go02

In Ontario, I rarely see a left lane hog on our highways. Very rare.

This is of course on 4 lane highways (2 in each direction)

When it is 6 lanes, then it is a bit different, but the left most lane often is left open for the fastest vehicles.


----------



## TheCat

LordMandeep said:


> Well imo the major Interstates like I-90 and I-80 are in really good shape.
> 
> I went on the I-81 from I-90 to I-80, it was in great shape, but it was a pain to drive on in the middle of Thunderstorm at night in fog.
> 
> However some highways are in terrible shape, like I-95 outside NYC, I-80 when you get to New York city. Actually ever highway in the major cities in the east are very crappy compared in rural areas.
> The worst highway i was on was the I-381. It was like driving alone, in a post apocalyptic world. Didn't see a single sole for 25 miles but we were finally able to drive really fast like 85 mph. However we stayed at the speed limit on the other highways especially I-90.


Ohh nice, you drove from Toronto to NYC through the Niagara crossing, am I correct? I'm going to drive that same route next week. Any suggestions? Hopefully I'll be able to take some pictures along the way and share them with you guys. It's actually going to be my first time in the US.

@Alex: we both have exactly 270 posts at this point


----------



## mgk920

TheCat said:


> Ohh nice, you drove from Toronto to NYC through the Niagara crossing, am I correct? I'm going to drive that same route next week. Any suggestions? Hopefully I'll be able to take some pictures along the way and share them with you guys. It's actually going to be my first time in the US.
> 
> @Alex: we both have exactly 270 posts at this point


I would avoid the NYSThruway - *BORING!*.

Instead cross over from Buffalo to I-86/NY 17 (US 219 is a good way) and follow that to the NYC area. INFINITELY BETTER SCENERY (and no tolls)!

Mike


----------



## Chicagoago

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> With all due respect, I would disagree. At least in California the speeding ticket costs $190 and up. Plus, from time to time, they set up a speeding enforcement day when ten CHP cars stop speeders on one-mile stretch of a motorway by getting information from the plane that circles over the motorway. I don't think they are specifically targeting the illegal activity besides speeding.


Do you guys get warnings? I was pulled over for speeding 4 times before I ever actually got a ticket.

I've been with 3 other people who have been pulled over on the interstate, and only 1 of them actually got ticketed. If you have a clean record they'll many times just give you a warning and tell you to move on...


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

In California, they don't give warnings. Cops here are too busy to waste their time giving warnings. I was stopped 4 times and every time I was ticketed. In California they don't even attempt to start a conversation: "Hello, sir. I stopped you for speeding. I need your driving licence, registration and auto insurance. I will be back with your citation in a couple of minutes." That's all.

At the same time, I like California cops because they seem more relaxed with stopped motorists than their colleagues from other states. At least they don't automatically treat you like a felon and don't point a gun at you the moment you exit your vehicle.


----------



## sonysnob

go_leafs_go02 said:


> though I find New York Inhabitants in Ontario on the QEW to be notorious for speeding as in going 130 km/h+.
> 
> Does Ontario have a reputation with border Americans as being a province where enforcement of the speed limit is very weak? Michigan drivers also speed like crazy, but i find they to, are quite diligent to stay close to the speed limit in their home-state.
> 
> No matter how fast I go, I occasionally top it off at 130 km/h on the highways, there is always someone behind me or beside me whizzing past mej.
> 
> Not complaining though


I think the New York Drivers on the QEW feel like prisoners on a three-day pass. Anyone who has driven the thruway will know what sticklers New York's highway patrol can be. I find enforcement in New York to be much stricter then in Ontario.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

130km/h looks like a normal speed on rural freeways to me.


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## mgk920

Chris1491 said:


> 130km/h looks like a normal speed on rural freeways to me.


And that's what a _lot_ of drivers will do on USA interstates and similar highways (when the cops aren't around).

I often wish that the USA would finally take the plunge and convert all of its highway signage to 'km/h' (et al), if for no other reason than to use it as an opportunity for a 'do-over' on setting sensible speed limits....

:gaah:

Mike


----------



## Verso

Speed is a very subjective thing: when I'm "in mood" (whatever that means, lol), 180 km/h (110 mph) can be slow to me, but sometimes even 130 km/h (80 mph) feels fast.


----------



## b1gh0u5e

Someone had mentioned speed traps on the previous page and it reminded me of a trip to Mardi Gras one year in college. We drove down from Athens, Ohio and there were four of us in the car. We stopped at one of the last towns in Mississippi before you cross into Louisiana to fill up and grab some beer...please note the driver was not drinking. We got back on the interstate and about two miles down the road, we see a sign that reads "DUI and DRUG check 1 mile". About 200 meters past this sign you could see police cruisers lined up in the trees along side the highway, basically boxing in the traffic between them and the check point. The scene was hilarious as just about every car on the road was tossing items out of their windows without realizing they were being watched by the hidden police cars who would then pull them over. I would estimate this operation involved at least 50 police cars, 2 helicopters, and at least 100 officers. We did make it through the check point without incident and had a great time in New Orleans. 
I can only imagine how much money the state of Mississippi makes from Mardi Gras traffic fines alone.


----------



## pwalker

*Nafta Superhighway*

Excuse me if this has been covered elsewhere, but what do you all think of the proposed "Nafta Superhighway?". Quietly, this is being planned to start at the Mexican border, go up through central Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas. Eventually it would branch out to the west and east ending in Canada. It would be a major multi-lane highway, with rail and fiber-optic along side. There isn't a lot of talk about it.

Some say it will ultimately result in the merger of US/Mexico/Canada, and make it very easy to import cheap goods into the US, resulting in fewer jobs here. Others say, it will open up needed trucking and transportation corridors and be good for the economy overall. 

Thoughts, anyone?


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

LtBk said:


> Drivers in the Northeastern US tends to be slower than rest of the country except for Northern California and Florida.


I wouldnt call driving in florida slow people on the highways do anywhere from 10-30mph over. On the roads where there is less traffic the same i dont think many people actually go the speed limit.


----------



## hoosier

The "NAFTA Superhighway" is also known as the I-69 extension, which will directly impact me.

Currently I-69 ends at I-465 in NE Indianapolis, IN. The state of Indiana has identified and approved a route that would extend I-69 SW from Indy to Evansville. This extension will cut through my hometown of Bloomington. The state has allocated $700 million to the construction of this freeway with work beginning in 2008.

I am against new terrain I-69. Ultimately, your opinion of the NFATA highway will depend on your opinion of NAFTA itself. I ardently oppose NAFTA and its devastating consequences on American manufacturing and Mexican farming, which has led to increased illegal immigration into the US. Go to www.citizen.org/trade and read about the insidious aspects of NAFTA.


----------



## mgk920

I-275westcoastfl said:


> I wouldnt call driving in florida slow people on the highways do anywhere from 10-30mph over. On the roads where there is less traffic the same i dont think many people actually go the speed limit.


What is it with Ohio and interstate highway slowpokes? If I am on an interstate highway roadtrip and I come upon on left-lane slowdown, more often than not the first car in that line has Ohio plates.

hno:

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I found an old topic in my Dutch autosnelwegen.nl forum.


----------



## Verso

Isn't the monster called Trans-Texas Corridor? Or it's really gone so far that it doesn't involve only Texas anymore?


----------



## pwalker

^^ No, it's gone beyond that. While not many are talking about it, plans are underway for a huge transportation corridor from Mexico to Canada. I think it is "back burner" for many because it will take decades to build. But it is a major change in transportation for the US, and the political ramifications are far and wide, whatever side you take on immigration. It is certainly about transportation, but it is also about joining together North America, economically and perhaps socially. I hope the next administration brings this project more out in the open, either pro or con, so atleast the people can weigh-in more than they are currently.


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## Verso

So how long is it supposed to be? The main line (Mexico - Canada), as well as all branch lines planned (if I got it right).


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## ChrisZwolle

Isn't the current I-35 good enough? Doesn't like to me that that road is so busy outside the urban areas. 

However the I-35 goes through quite a lot of large urban areas; San Antonio, Austin, Worth Fort/Dallas, Oklahoma City, Wichita, Kansas City, Des Moines, Minneapolis/Saint Paul and Duluth.


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## icracked

Pictures of various interstate/freeways in Honolulu city and county (To foreign folks out there, 50th U.S. state). Honolulu as the World's most isolated city, it does have a damn good freeway/interstate system that are very well kept, just to show you the strength of the U.S. highway system.
The three interstates in Honolulu county are very well kept as you can see.
























Next two pictures shows the more "traditional" side of Honolulu county with dense rain forest and waterfall slopes on mountains.
















Entering Honolulu from the Honolulu International Airport.


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## Alex Von Königsberg

I like the first picture of Honolulu a lot! It looks even more like Madrid kay:


----------



## sequoias

I like that impressive winding interstate thru those rainforests, very cool! 









Impressive density of highrises in the background there.


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## Verso

Kewl pix!  Btw:


icracked said:


>


I thought the max. speed limit in Hawaii was 55 mph!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Beautiful scenery, but the road on that pic above my post looks kind of dated. 55 or 60mph, it's all very slow. But i don't think it makes much of a difference, considering the size of Oahu island.


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## Nephasto

Not meaning to be an ass here, but besides being a huge freeway with many lanes per direction and all, what diference will it really make compared to any other interstate??

Ok, the idea of the train lines going by is cool, but is it really goog to try to putt all the things in one? I mean, if you want to put a line for rail freight alongside you will have to have really mild inclinations for example, which will make it much more difficult.
Wouldn't it be better to separate?


----------



## Æsahættr

Will it actually go _in_ Mexico?


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## -KwK345-

*Do y'all think Houston actually has that bad of traffic.*

People around here always say Houston has terrible traffic but from my experiences, I don't think I've been in that bad of traffic (that I can remember). And whenever I look on google maps-traffic, it never seems like there is a lot of traffic, but yea, there IS traffic though. It just usually isn't as much as cities that, according to Wikipedia, supposedly don't normally have as much traffic as Houston.

Sorry if this isn't the right forum. OH, and pics of Houston traffic are more than welcome!


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## I-275westcoastfl

Every big city has traffic problems but honestly Houston's has a good highway system.


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## Xusein

Yeah, Houston has probably one of the better highway systems in the US. 

It's just there's not much of an alternative there...


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## -KwK345-

I'm not saying Houston doesn't, but how does it have a better highway system than other cities?

And just for the heck of it, I thought I would post a picture I took flying into Bush Intercon. Airport.


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## Angry Bob

I've heard that Houston has no rail network? is that true, coz if it is you're pretty fucked if you dont have a car


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## Xusein

^ Houston has a small light rail system, which is being extended. 
It also has railroads, and a Amtrak train station, but I figure that most rail used is for frieght.



kevin_wk said:


> I'm not saying Houston doesn't, but how does it have a better highway system than other cities?


I've never been to Houston, but from what I've heard, the system was better designed because the development grew as the highways were built, unlike in other cities where plenty of neighborhoods were demolished to make way for the highways.

Plus, I like the radial system, with the two beltways. Route 6 on the map is not a highway.


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## Angry Bob

^^ by light rail, do you mean trams/streetcars?

Houston's freeway network is massive personally I think its the best in the whole country! If in doubt, check Texasfreeway.com. Ultimate :cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

Houston has a very efficient freeway/tollway system. And the city doesn't encounter geographic problems like oceans and mountains (like Los Angeles). 

I heard Houston is the largest city in size within the city proper.


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## -KwK345-

Angry Bob said:


> you're pretty fucked if you dont have a car


Very True


TenRot said:


> Route 6 on the map is not a highway.


What? 


Chris1491 said:


> I heard Houston is the largest city in size within the city proper.


I don't no if that's true or not but if it is, it's not hard to believe. Houston is pretty big!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> Chandler: guys are signing their 401Ks to me!
> 
> Phoebe: You work with robots?!!


Could you BE any more addicted to friends? :lol:


----------



## -KwK345-

Chris1491 said:


> Could you BE any more addicted to friends? :lol:


I probably could


----------



## Xusein

kevin_wk said:


> What?


I meant that Route 6 isn't a limited access freeway like the other loops are.


----------



## hkskyline

*Boston's Big Dig - Lessons Learned*

*US looks for lessons in Boston's $15 bln "Big Dig" *

BOSTON, July 12 (Reuters) - From his store in Boston's Italian North End, John DiPaolo watches as workers plant trees in a park that, when complete, will mark the end of the $15 billion "Big Dig" road and tunnel construction project. 

"It was a waste of time and money," said DiPaolo, 56, standing behind the counter of D&G Meat Market on a street next to Boston's 15-year project. "The costs keep rising and instead of a park I'd rather see homes there." 

DiPaolo's view reflects the conflicted emotions in Boston toward the costliest public works project in U.S. history a year after cement fell from a tunnel ceiling, crushing a car, killing a woman passenger and shattering public confidence. 

Some, like DiPaolo, question the merits of an urban engineering project compared in scale to the building of the Panama Canal, while others extol the benefits of a swifter commute through a notoriously congested city and the sprouting of trees and plants where a rusting highway once stood. 

With 7.5 miles (12 km) of underground highway and a 183-foot (56-metre) wide cable-stayed bridge, the "Big Dig" replaced an ailing elevated expressway to fix chronic congestion and reunite downtown Boston with its historic waterfront neighborhoods. 

Despite a "stem to stern" inspection last year that found it fundamentally safe, many Bostonians still regard it with trepidation, citing years of mismanagement of the kind highlighted on Tuesday by the National Transportation Safety Board in its review of last year's fatality. 

The U.S. transportation investigator blamed the collapse on the wrong kind of glue used to hold up the concrete ceiling, and criticized the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority for poor oversight and noted mistakes by contractors including private U.S. ceiling designer Gannett Fleming Inc.

The problems reverberate beyond Boston to other U.S. cities considering so-called "mega-projects" that involve the tearing down of aging elevated highways built in a construction boom of the 1950s and 1960s to channel growing traffic underground and free up land for parks or other facilities. 

*PROJECTS IN OTHER CITIES *

"People look at the Big Dig and it makes them more skeptical, and therefore they ask harder questions -- whether it's on the cost side or the management side," said David Luberoff, a Harvard researcher and co-author of "Mega-Projects: The Changing Politics of Urban Public Investment." 

"The Big Dig underscores what happens if you don't get it right. Hopefully, people will learn from this," said Luberoff. 

Seattle is struggling to convince voters that replacing the earthquake-vulnerable Alaska Way Viaduct on its waterfront with a $3 billion to $3.6 billion tunnel is worth the cost. 

Brooklyn, whose waterfront could be transformed if an elevated expressway were buried, faces a similar problem. 

Massachusetts Attorney General Martha Coakley is conducting a criminal investigation of last year's accident that killed a 38-year-old woman and could decide soon whether to seek indictments. Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick has urged her "to hold accountable all those who should be held accountable." 

Still, many Bostonians praise the Big Dig while grumbling about its execution. 

About 260 acres (105 hectares) of new parks, trees and sidewalks were freed by it. It also cut the average peak travel time on northbound Interstate 93 by 17 minutes to about 3 minutes after major road construction ended last year, according to a Massachusetts Turnpike Authority study. 

And it has been a tourism boon to the North End, a dense district of restaurants, cafes and historic buildings bordering the area where the highway once stood and where landscapers are finishing two grassy parks set to open by October that represent the project's final phase. 

"It's been great both in bringing more people to the North End and, at the same time, changing people's perceptions of this historic part of the city. It has reconnected the North End back to Boston," said Guild Nichols, a longtime North End resident who runs www.northendboston.com . 

Dan McNichol, author of "The Roads that Built America," said cities that could benefit from a Big Dig-style underground highway include Philadelphia, where an elevated section of Interstate 95 divides the city from the Delaware River, and St. Louis, where Interstate 70 runs along the Mississippi River. 

But legal skirmishes over the project look set to linger. The family of the woman killed last year has filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the Turnpike Authority and several companies associated with the project, including project manager Bechtel/ Parsons Brinckerhoff, which have said they stand behind their work.


----------



## Gaeus

Of all the drivers over United States, DC metro area has one of the worst. I guess DC drivers are still adjusting to the fast growing traffic jams that make this area as one of the worst traffic jams in US (and many accidents occured everyday). On the other hand, LA Drivers are one of the most aggressive and assertive drivers yet they know what they are doing. They drive like 80 - 85 mph but I don't see frequent accidents unlike the one I see in DC everyday and you rarely hear or see accidents on the news. I guess driving is a big culture for LA or people are just that good?


----------



## geogregor

Why speed limits in USA are so low?
Some states have them as low as 65mph which is just 105kmph. 
Even fast states (New Mexico for example) have lmit set at 75mph (121kmph)
In most European countries limit is 130 kmph (80mph) even if European freeways have more curves and are often narrower than American.
Beside limit is often ignored and quite a lot of people drive around 150kmph (92mph) and police seems not to care to much.
I don't even mention German highways 
Maybe answer is in using km, not miles. Only country in Europe which I know having ridiculous limit (70 mph –112kmph) is UK J
Just joking!!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

And European rural motorways are generally much busier than the deserted and lone Interstates west of the Mississippi/Missouri.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

geogregor said:


> Why speed limits in USA are so low?


Because of the false assumption that speed is the main reason for traffic collisions. In the USA, the biggest crime is speeding and not stopping for the STOP signs. Most traffic tickets are exactly for these two types of offences. 



> Some states have them as low as 65mph which is just 105kmph.


Some eastern states have a maximum limit of 90 km/h. 



> Even fast states (New Mexico for example) have lmit set at 75mph (121kmph)


Actually, in Texas they recently raised the limit to 130 km/h. Other states have lower limits.


----------



## Nephasto

^^The cars may be safer, but everythink still ocurrs much faster when you're driving at 150 than when driving at 100. 

I'm not an appologist of low speed limits or anything, just to point out that no matter how you try to spin it, driving a car at 150km/h is considerably more dangerous than driving at 100km/h.

Anyway, in a rural stretch of a freeway, with not too much traffic its definatly much better to drive at 150 than at 100, no doubt.


----------



## Nephasto

geogregor said:


> In Germany where there is no limit on freeways is less accidents than in many countries which have limits.


Indeed. But for a good comparison you would have to compare nowadays Germany (with no speed limit) with Germany with a 130km/h speed limit.

It certainly wouldn't be more dangerous. But it might not be that much safer(less deaths) either...


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Tom Marney said:


> The reason speed limits are still low in some places is that lower speed limits significantly improved safety.


I am not an expert in statistics, but to make that assumption, I think they should compare the number of accidents when the limit was higher and when it was lower. I don't know of many instances when the speed limits went from higher to lower given exactly the same conditions. Last time it happened more than 30 years ago, but then the cars and the roads were of significantly different quality than today. For instance, how can Hawaii assume that the limit of 60 mph significantly improves safety compared to higher limits if the latter have never been tried before?


----------



## ZeTaCy

Chris1491 said:


> The Danish risen the speed limit from 110 to 130 a few years ago, resulting in less accidents. I think, that with a low speed limit, people are paying less attention.


Could you get me a source, because i'm always in a discussion about the speedlimits in the Netherlands. I'm pro higher speed limits and they are strongly against.

Also can someone give me legal minimal width of an interstate freeway? I also think the 3,5m width that we use in The Netherlands is not sufficient anymore.

Also every complaining about freeways of being old/outdated is a fool. Environmental issues will be handled in the upcoming century so that wont be a argument/excuse for building more freeways/interstates. Also saying it's old compared to other ways of transport then you havent paid much attention at school. Trains/railway transportation systems are extremely old compared to freeways (about 4/5 times older). Also subways are old compared to freeways (about 2/3 times older), it's the same for trams and even airplanes/airports are older than the interstate system.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Check this topic on the Dutch Motorway forum. Increasing speed limit from 110 to 130 caused *25%* less traffic deaths.


----------



## Tom 958

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> I am not an expert in statistics, but to make that assumption, I think they should compare the number of accidents when the limit was higher and when it was lower. I don't know of many instances when the speed limits went from higher to lower given exactly the same conditions. Last time it happened more than 30 years ago, but then the cars and the roads were of significantly different quality than today. For instance, how can Hawaii assume that the limit of 60 mph significantly improves safety compared to higher limits if the latter have never been tried before?


Surely the states that kept their speed limits lower did exactly that, don't you think? Not that I blindly trust the judgements of highway agencies-- far from it, actually--, but low speed limits tend to be unpopular, and the political decision to keep them low isn't taken lightly. Then again, it isn't just motorists who pay the bills for accidents-- insurance companies, healthcare providers and government itself are interested parties, and they have political power, too.

OTOH, it doesn't surprise me that in some cases, lower speed limits have a negligible impact on accident rates. A verifiable reduction is hard for me to believe, though. If anyone posts a link to a study documenting reduced accident rates after a rise in speed limits, I'll read it, but I'm not interested enough to do it on my own.

I did once read a study that indicated that so-called safety improvements-- straightening sharp curves, flattening blind hillcrests, etc., had no overall impact on safety, apparently because these improvements simply allowed motorists to become less attentive. More interestingly, the study found that while there was a decline in the overall severity of accidents, the decline was less than what could be reasonably attributed to better cars and emergency medical care, so a statistical case could be made that so-called safety improvements actually made conditions less safe!


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## EricIsHim

Speed difference is a major factor on deadly accident. If the speed limit is lowered, but high speed drivers remain high speeding and more people drive slower, it wouldn't help the situation. If someone decides to drive 80-90mph, they are not going to slow down because the posted speed limit is lowered from 65 to 55mph. As long as it's free flow traffic on the highway, those people who are driving fast are going to drive fast as they are now. The only way to slow everyone down is really put the speed limit in enforcement, more restrictive than today.


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Maybe, but in France, the limit is 130km/h (quite fair), very few enforcement, but you generally don't see cars flying low by all the time, in opposite to Germany, where on quiet Autobahns, cars easy drive in the 200's. 

So i say, on rural interstates with lower AADT than 80.000, the speed limit can easily be set on 75 or 80 MPH. But i would set a lower speed limit for trucks, driving above 60MPH isn't very fuel economic for trucks. 

What fuel are US trucks driving on anyway?


----------



## Nephasto

Tom Marney said:


> I did once read a study that indicated that so-called safety improvements-- straightening sharp curves, flattening blind hillcrests, etc., had no overall impact on safety, apparently because these improvements simply allowed motorists to become less attentive. More interestingly, the study found that while there was a decline in the overall severity of accidents, the decline was less than what could be reasonably attributed to better cars and emergency medical care, so a statistical case could be made that so-called safety improvements actually made conditions less safe!


Well,I don't buy that.
If how have a road where there are certain points were there are many accidents, and you correct them, those points of concentration of accidents will no longer exist and the road will become safer.
That was done for example here in Portugal in IP4 and IP5 with very good results! With very significant reductions in road casualties in those roads, after the improvements were made.





Chris1491 said:


> So i say, on rural interstates with lower AADT than 80.000, the speed limit can easily be set on 75 or 80 MPH. But i would set a lower speed limit for trucks, driving above 60MPH isn't very fuel economic for trucks.


I'd say that practically any *rural* interstate will have an AADT way below 80000. 
Taken into account that 80000 is a very high traffic volume (minimum 3 lanes, 4 recommended). Here in Portugal for example we only have such values of traffic intensities in urban freeways of Porto and Lisbon.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Chris1491 said:


> What fuel are US trucks driving on anyway?


Diesel, natürlich!  Do you know how much benzine those 18-wheeler monsters would eat?


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## ZeTaCy

But the real question here is, why aren't the authorities increasing the speed limit to 130 km/h (85mph?) everywhere?


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## ChrisZwolle

Nephasto said:


> Taken into account that 80000 is a very high traffic volume (minimum 3 lanes, 4 recommended). Here in Portugal for example we only have such values of traffic intensities in urban freeways of Porto and Lisbon.


Nah, most rural motorways in the Netherlands have around 60.000 - 100.000 vehicles a day, and you'd better don't expect 2x3 lanes there. 

There are even motorways (A28 near Amersfoort, and near Zwolle) which have over 120.000 AADT and are still 2x2 lanes. But there are also roads in the 180.000 - 200.000 area, which are only 2x3 lanes. Hence the traffic jams. 

Under 70.000 is commonly seen as a quiet motorway here.


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## Nephasto

^^The netherland is far from being a common example. 

As I've said, I think you will find very few rural interstates wich such amount of traffic.
Here in Portugal, Brise (main motorway owner) has to enlarge to 2x3 if the traffic is above 30000 and 2x4 if it's above 60000. 
Anyway, as they don't administrate urban motorways, there are obviously many urban motorways which don't respect that.


----------



## Xusein

ZeTaCy said:


> But the real question here is, why aren't the authorities increasing the speed limit to 130 km/h (85mph?) everywhere?


$$$$ <--That's why.

If the speed limit is raised, a large portion of revenue is cut.


----------



## hoosier

Will all the defenders of the US interstate highway system please STFU now that a bridge carrying I-35 in DT Minneapolis just collapsed?


----------



## EricIsHim

The interstate highway system has nothing to do with the maintenance of one bridge. Each state has its way to maintenance the interstate infrastructure. A bridge fails doesn't mean the whole system is a failure
.


----------



## EricIsHim

ZeTaCy said:


> But the real question here is, why aren't the authorities increasing the speed limit to 130 km/h (85mph?) everywhere?


The speed limit is the safe travel speed at a normal road condition.
Raising speed limit to 85mph or 130 km/h is way too high for wet condition; plus highway design (at least for most part of the US) speed is around 85 - 90 mph. It is the limit of the highway design, travelling at that speed is actually in danger for the drivers, especially at curve sections. 

Of course the drivers should slow down even slower than the speed limit if road condition and/or visibility is/are bad like during heavy rain storm and snow.


----------



## hoosier

EricIsHim said:


> The interstate highway system has nothing to do with the maintenance of one bridge. Each state has its way to maintenance the interstate infrastructure. A bridge fails doesn't mean the whole system is a failure
> .


The burden of maintaining interstates has fallen to the states because the federal government has abrogated its duty to pay for the upkeep of the nation's roads.

The federal government has the resources to take care of the nation's road infrastructure, states have big problems coming up with the needed funds, which is why they push back and scale down road construction and improvement projects.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

hoosier said:


> Will all the defenders of the US interstate highway system please STFU now that a bridge carrying I-35 in DT Minneapolis just collapsed?


Well, being far from the defenders of the US interstate system, I should point out that the reasons for this failure are still unknown. The bridge might have collapsed because of the poor maintenance or because of the engineering fault during the construction or because something else. 

I too am a proponent of the exclusively federal funding for all interstates, but in this case I would not jump to a quick conclusion that the bridge collapsed because the feds left it up to the states to maintain their portions of interstates. And of course, this bridge collapse alone could in no way be a proof of the entire interstate system failure.


----------



## FM 2258

hoosier said:


> Will all the defenders of the US interstate highway system please STFU now that a bridge carrying I-35 in DT Minneapolis just collapsed?


I think the Interstate highway system is great. One cool thing I can say is that this same Interstate goes right through my town which is over 1000 miles away. One thing I really love about the Interstate system is that it takes you to the center of town. In other countries you usually have to take a city street top reach the center of town. Smart people who designed Interstates to reach the center of town.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Pics of Parkways:

*New York City*
Belt Parkway
Grand Central Parkway
Hutchinson River Parkway


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Tomorrow, I will post some pics of my neighbourhood's parkway


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## Billpa

AUchamps, I believe is talking about a number of newer toll roads (and a few old ones like the Garden State Parkway) that carry no Interstate designation. Obviously many others are I-routes, Like the PA turnpike, NJ Tpk (parts are 95, in the future more of it will be); Maine, NH, Mass, WV, IL, Ohio, Indiana and Oklahoma also have toll roads that are Interstates. 
There are non-Interstate toll roads in Delaware (route 1), NJ, Virginia, California, Texas and many in Florida as well. There may be others I'm not thinking of.


----------



## Billpa

*USA: Parkways*

Based on some posts in the Interstate thread.

Parkways are not always limited access motorways, but many, especially in the Northeastern section of the US are. Some may argue they are not true motorways, because they often lack proper shoulders. Some do not allow any big trucks/lorries and will often have very short exit/entrance ramps and acceleration lanes. They are often nice to travel on because they provide park-like scenery- lots of trees and things like that.

Garden State Parkway in New Jersey:



















Taconic State Parkway in New York:










Palisades Interstate Parkway runs in both NY and NJ:










The Merritt Parkway is in Connecticut:


----------



## Patrick

I'd liek to drive there, looks so beautiful!


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## ChrisZwolle

Kentucky used to have some toll roads in the past. I have a 1987 road atlas where they are displayed.


----------



## AUchamps

Chris1491 said:


> Kentucky used to have some toll roads in the past. I have a 1987 road atlas where they are displayed.


In Kentucky, they were(and still are) called Parkways(even though by and large they are built to near Interstate Standards). Kentucky says that once the bond is paid off on the road, the tolls have to be removed. That's why today, there's only 2 toll roads left in the state and why when I-69 is routed through Kentucky, it will simply be a matter of upgrading some functionally obsolete sections of Parkway so that they will have all the "bells and whistles" of what's required by a new Interstate. I'm talking about Lane widths, pavement quality, wider shoulders, etc.


----------



## mgk920

The Garden State Parkway is open to big-rig trucks/lorries south of NJ 18 (interchange 105 near Long Branch, NJ). IIRC, the whole thing is physically usable by them but from NJ 18 northward to the New York state line right by the New York State Thruway (I-87) they're not allowed mainly to placate the neighbors.

The Taconic State Parkway runs from NYC (where it is the Bronx River Parkway) northward to the New York State Thruway - Berkshire Extension (I-90) in the Albany area along a ridge east of the Hudson River. I've driven its entire length and yes, it is a GORGEOUS drive, although the part south of I-84 can be a bit of a thrill ride at times. :nuts:

The Merritt Parkway is one of the oldest freeway-type roads in the USA and I have heard some stories of pre-WWII German highway engineers visiting it while they were working on some of their earliest autobahns.

Lake Shore Drive in Chicago is very similar to these northeastern USA parkways, too. It is mostly a 6 and 8 lane freeway along Chicago's Lake Michigan lakefront and is only open to cars and motorcycles. The section in the downtown area has intersections.

Out west, the Pasadena Freeway (CA 110) north of the 'Four Level' interchange in Los Angeles and Pasadena, CA is also such a no-trucks/lorries 'parkway'.

Mike


----------



## mgk920

And old cliché question here in the USA is 'Why is it that you can drive on a parkway and park on a driveway?'

:lol:

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I red on Wikipedia, one of the oldest Parkways date back from 1907. Ofcourse not up to motorway standards, but as highcapacity roads.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

It seems to me that the word _parkway_ has a completely different meaning on the East Coast...


----------



## Urban Legend

Billpa said:


> Based on some posts in the Interstate thread.
> 
> Parkways are not always limited access motorways, but many, especially in the Northeastern section of the US are. Some may argue they are not true motorways, because they often lack proper shoulders. Some do not allow any big trucks/lorries and will often have very short exit/entrance ramps and acceleration lanes. They are often nice to travel on because they provide park-like scenery- lots of trees and things like that.
> 
> Garden State Parkway in New Jersey:
> 
> 
> Taconic State Parkway in New York:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ]



very beautiful view


----------



## LordMandeep

the only thing that is even close to the interstate system in the States in Canada is the 400 series highways.


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## Xusein

*Here in Connecticut, we have the Merritt Parkway.*

It's pretty nice because it's literally in the middle of forest. No trucks are allowed on it. There are plenty of turns too so it will keep you awake...but it's a pretty enjoyable highway to take when driving to New York, instead of taking I-95 which is always crowded and filled with too much trucks...


----------



## Billpa

You can see the top of the George Washington Bridge here---between New Jersey and New York City














































Express lanes on the left.......................................Local lanes on the right


















Service station on the left with an ill-advised attempt at hiding a cell phone tower...


----------



## sbarn

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> In California, _parkway_ is another word for _street_.


Parkways are ubiquitous in the Northeast as well. In fact, they originated out here in New York thanks to Robert Moses.


----------



## Billpa

Baltimore-Washington Parkway...


----------



## xzmattzx

The parkways that I know of in Delaware are Kentmere Parkway and Bancroft Parkway in the city of Wilmington. Both are just city streets with huge grassy medians. This is what I personally think of when I think of parkways.

One of my pictures of Bancroft Parkway


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## Xusein

The Garden State Parkway, IMO, is a parkway in name only. It's not enjoyable to drive down like the Palisades or Merritt Parkways. In Central Jersey, it's a beast! I like the service areas in the medians though.

I remember taking the Taconic State Parkway once, that's one crazy ride! Reminds me why I love driving.


----------



## urbanfan89

Only in the USA will the government spend billions on roads specially for their nice view. :lol:


----------



## Rufus

The Blue Ridge Parkway runs through the Appalachian Mountains, specifically the Blue Ridge, and spans North Carolina and Virginia. It is the longest and narrowest National Park in the world. It is also world famous for its beauty with such sites as the Linn Cove Viaduct, Linville Falls, Mt. Mitchell, Maybry Mill, Pilot Mt., and numerous small farms.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Sprain Brook Parkway in Yonkers (one of the larger suburbs of New York), has in the Sprain Ridge Park an entire lake in it's median. The Grassy Sprain Lake. Northbound lanes are going east by the lake, southbound lanes go along the western side. There are even 3 adjacent freeways in Yonkers within 1 mile;
Saw Mill River Parkway
New York State Thruway
Sprain Brook Parkway

Within 2 miles of that, there are another 2 north-southfreeways adjacent; the Bronx River Parkway and the Hutchinson River Parkway. (the first not completely being to freeway standards).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Funny, on top of the I-95 in Manhattan are actually 4 tall residential buildings. I don't know their exact height, but i think they are over 100m tall.


















_I-95 Northbound just after the George Washington Bridge_


----------



## ChrisZwolle

On Staten Island, there is an partially build interchange with some never-build expressway and the I-278 Staten Island Expressway.

This unbuild expressway should have been the Richmond Parkway.


















I-278 near the ghost interchange on northern Staten Island.


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## mgk920

rick1016 said:


> Don Valley Parkway, Toronto


Please correct me if I am wrong, but from what I am aware of about it, the DVP would almost certainly be a full interstate if the Toronto area was in the USA. IIRC, it is a normally designed '400-series' freeway that happens to pass through a large park in central Toronto.

Mike


----------



## OakRidge

*Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways*










> Interstate Highways in the 48 contiguous states. Purple routes are currently built and open freeways, blue are currently open spur routes, and green indicates proposed routes, future roads, or those currently under construction.





> The Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways, commonly called the Interstate Highway System, is a network of highways (also called freeways) in the United States. The Interstate Highway System is a separate system within the larger National Highway System. The entire system, as of 2004, had a total length of 46,837 miles (75,376 km).


*National Highway System*











> The National Highway System (NHS) of the United States comprises approximately 160,000 miles (256,000 kilometers) of roadway, including the Interstate Highway System as well as other roads, which are important to the nation's economy, defense, and mobility. The NHS was developed by the United States Department of Transportation (DOT) in cooperation with the states, local officials, and metropolitan planning organizations (MPOs).
> 
> Components
> The National Highway System (NHS) includes the following subsystems of roadways (note that a specific highway route may be on more than one subsystem):
> 
> Interstate - The Eisenhower Interstate System of highways retains its separate identity within the NHS.
> 
> Other Principal Arterials - These are highways in rural and urban areas which provide access between an arterial and a major port, airport, public transportation facility, or other intermodal transportation facility.
> 
> Strategic Highway Network (STRAHNET) - This is a network of highways which are important to the United States' strategic defense policy and which provide defense access, continuity and emergency capabilities for defense purposes.
> 
> Major Strategic Highway Network Connectors - These are highways which provide access between major military installations and highways which are part of the Strategic Highway Network.
> 
> Intermodal Connectors - These highways provide access between major intermodal facilities and the other four subsystems making up the National Highway System.


*Strategic Highway Network*











> The Strategic Highway Network (STRAHNET) is a system of highways in the United States designated as critical for national defense purposes. It includes the Eisenhower Interstate System and is part of the larger National Highway System.


----------



## AUchamps

You forgot I-69 from Mexico to Indianapolis.


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## Xusein

But most of that hasn't been built yet...


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## AUchamps

TenRot said:


> But most of that hasn't been built yet...


Green indicates proposed routes, future roads, or those currently under construction.


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## Xusein

You have a point there...sorry about that.


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## Gaeus

It's really interesting that the main reason for building the Interstate Highways is for the defense of our country. If Eisenhower is still alive, he must be really glad that the interstate highway system played a vital role to our economy and to the american way of life.


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## mgk920

Gaeus said:


> It's really interesting that the main reason for building the Interstate Highways is for the defense of our country. If Eisenhower is still alive, he must be really glad that the interstate highway system played a vital role to our economy and to the american way of life.


It was called that so it would pass Constitutional muster. Eisenhower wanted them for commerce (military was a side reason), but to get past the Constitution's internal improvements limitations he had to sell the system as a defense-related thing (although I firmly believe that it would have passed any Supreme Court challenge under the 'post Offices and post Roads' clause).

Without the I-system, the USA would today have a very disjointed mess of state highway systems, some well developed and some not and MANY not properly connecting with each other at state lines (See Canada for an example) and a LOT of state and privately developed cross-country tollways (ie, the Chicago Skyway/Indiana Toll Road/Ohio Turnpike/Pennsylvania Turnpike/New Jersey Turnpike).

A 'national unity' aspect to the I-system cannot be over emphasized, too.

The USA would be a far different place indeed without them.

Mike


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## Paddington

I'm usually an advocate of small government, but the interstate system was one of the best federal projects ever.


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## andres_1234

I Have a Question...
Which is the Speed Limit on a Highway?
Plz say it in Km/h


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## mgk920

andres_1234 said:


> I Have a Question...
> Which is the Speed Limit on a Highway?
> Plz say it in Km/h


The general interstate (and similar) highway speed limits in the USA vary by state, anywhere from about 80 km/h in HI and DC up to 130 km/h in parts of TX. Most are in 105-120 km/h range. The general trend in recent years has been towards increasing the limits, too.

The level of enforcement also varies as much as the limits.

Mike


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## FM 2258

Paddington said:


> I'm usually an advocate of small government, but the interstate system was one of the best federal projects ever.


I agree. I've been from Austin to Houston many times but I tried driving on U.S. 90 instead of Interstate 10 as much as I could and I think traveling would be hell if it wasn't for the Interstate system. Also when you're on an Interstate it feels like you're in another dimension. I guess that's why they call roads in the city "surface" streets.


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## Sabretooth

hoosier said:


> The burden of maintaining interstates has fallen to the states because the federal government has abrogated its duty to pay for the upkeep of the nation's roads.
> 
> The federal government has the resources to take care of the nation's road infrastructure, states have big problems coming up with the needed funds, which is why they push back and scale down road construction and improvement projects.


While I'm usually not one to defend the Federal government, that's really not true. State DOTs do produce and administer and contracts for interstate roadway construction/reconstruction and provide maintenance, but it's largely Federally funded (usually 80%). And that's the way it should be; the Feds are too cumbersome to provide direct oversight themselves. Things would be far worse...

And regarding speed limits - they were instated in large part due to the oil crises of the 1970s. If I'm correct, the state of Wyoming has forgone years of Federal monies because of their refusal to adopt it. All the arguments of safety and everything else aside, vehicle fuel mileage generally drops precipitously after 60-70 mph.


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## ChrisZwolle

mgk920 said:


> The general interstate (and similar) highway speed limits in the USA vary by state, anywhere from about 80 km/h in HI and DC up to 130 km/h in parts of TX. Most are in 105-120 km/h range. The general trend in recent years has been towards increasing the limits, too.
> 
> The level of enforcement also varies as much as the limits.
> 
> Mike


also on non-interstate roads (no freeway-like roads.)?


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## mgk920

Chris1491 said:


> also on non-interstate roads (no freeway-like roads.)?


Most non-freeway (I call them 'surface') road and highway speed limits top out at about 90 km/h. Local streets are often in the 30-70 km/h range depending on location, design and traffic loads.

Wisconsin and many other states have four-lane non-freeway highways posted at about 105 km/h.

Some two-lane highway speed limits do top out in the 110 km/h range in the more wide-open western states, too.

Mike


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## sonysnob

Lake Ontario State Parkway that runs westerly along the southern shore of Lake Ontario from Rochester

http://www.canhighways.com/NY/LOSP.htm


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## newyorkrunaway1

Pictures of Dallas area Highways


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## newyorkrunaway1




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## newyorkrunaway1




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## miamicanes

> Where is petition-initiated constitutional amendment raising those speed limits??


Nobody wants to risk losing hundreds of millions of dollars per year in federal highway funds. So instead, we humor the feds, pass the law they demand, then ignore it and make it unenforceable.

I believe Louisiana did something similar to pacify the feds with regard to the drinking age. I think they made underage possession a secondary offense, so you can't be fined or arrested JUST for possession... you have to do something else, like assault someone, vandalize something, or drive drunk. THEN they pile it on top of the other charges. I think they also worded the law so that it's illegal to sell alcohol to someone under 21, but it's legal to buy it, then give it to someone under 21 "for free" if they buy a $5 napkin from you to wrap the bottle in, or a $5 straw to drink it with. Once again, showing the creative American way of complying with the letter of some hated federal law, while completely subverting its intent :banana:


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## geogregor

AUchamps said:


> You at least have a chance at talking your way out of a ticket if a cop pulls you over. You can't do that with a camera that sends a letter to you in the mail a month later with the ticket enclosed.


As I said, they are clearly marked (with really few exeptions). If you are blind or stupid not to slow down in front of one, it is your fault


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## geogregor

miamicanes said:


> . So instead, we humor the feds, pass the law they demand, then ignore it and make it unenforceable.
> :


So, how did you make it unenforceable??
Did you really try? Or is it another "bla bla bla" and you still are hunted down by cops in cruisers for traveling with speed which in many countries is considered as snail speed 
Like 55mph :lol:


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## lex_99

Thanks for the pix. I missed Dallas so much


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## rick1016

nice.


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## xzmattzx

*Intrastate Interstates*

What does everyone think about Interstates in the US that are located only in one state?

Some examples of intrastate Interstates:
~I-45 is located only in Texas
~I-4 is located only in Florida
~I-96 is located only in Michigan

As more Interstates get built, and more might be built in the next 25 or 50 years, we are going to run into the issue of running out of numbers. With the numbering system right now (single- and double-digit Interstates that are odd numbers go north/south, and single- and double-digit Interstates that are even numbers go east/west), only a certain amount of numbers are available.

So what do we do when we run out of numbers? I think that Interstates that are located in just one state should be made into three-digit Interstates, indicating that they are spur-routes of larger Interstates that cross a state border. For instance, I-97 in Maryland is a whopping 17 miles long. An interstate this short, that connects Baltimore with Annapolis, is a waste of a two-digit number. Considering that I-97 connects with I-95, why couldn't it have just been called I-995? Or, for I-17, which connects Phoenix with Flagstaff in Arizona, why couldn't it just have been called I-110 or I-140 or something?

In my opinion, any Interstate that does not cross a state border should not be able to have a two-digit number. I think that two-digit numbers should be saved for Interstates that cross state lines. Do you agree or disagree?


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## DanielFigFoz

Disagre. "Interstate" is just a name, in my opinion they don't have to cross state lines. But I do understand you're point.


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## ChrisZwolle

The Official USA Interstate thread


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## mgk920

newyorkrunaway1 said:


> Pictures of Dallas area Highways


What is this incomplete interchange?

Mike


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## ChrisZwolle

Isn't that the high-five interchange under construction?


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## YeahWho

It was fully open in 2005/2006. It is currently being upgraded to include a HOV lane in both directions. Hwy 75 which crosses it is getting HOV lanes as well.


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## Bori427

Dallas freeways are amazing,please post more!!!


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## sk

wow!i would get lost in this jungle of freeways!


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## ChrisZwolle

sk said:


> wow!i would get lost in this jungle of freeways!


That's why they use signage in the US too...


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## sk

hehe....i know!it was just a way to say how impressive and dense the freeway network is!


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## Xusein

Nice pics...we all know that they always do everything bigger in Texas.


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## Xusein

I-87 stays in New York State the whole time...but it goes through so much varied landscapes, from the grit in the Bronx to the countryside and Adirondack Park upstate that it feels like going through different states.

I agree, but in some cases (like I-4, and I-96 which are on "extremities") it makes sense. Even in I-87's case, it makes sense...what would be called instead? I-378?


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## xzmattzx

geogregor said:


> Somehow Germans can handle high speed. Why Americans can't??
> Speed limit 55-65 mph is way to low for modern roads and cars. It was good for cars without all this electronics like ABS and so on. In Europe limits are much higher and we don't have more accidents than USA. In most countries it is over 80mph (130kmh) and Germany don't have speed limit on motorways.
> I don't speak about limits on local roads beacouse they are fine. On interstate should be 80.
> 70mph is in UK but everyone drive 80-90mph. If you do it cops won't bother you. They will stop you if you do more than 90. People slow down just in front of speed cameras.
> So limit should be risen to let say 80 or 85 and enforced.


I drive well over the speed limit, even over 100 mph sometimes, but I will play devil's advocate here.

The reason that there are lower speed limits here compared to Germany, as you mentioned, is that American Interstates were built in a different way than German autobahns. Autobahns don't have curves that are as sharp or hills that are as steep as Interstates. Autobahns were built to allow for as much straight road and easy driving as possible. (Hitler also contended that the Autobahns could be used as emergency landing strips for planes.) It was not feasible to do this in the U.S., epsecially in heavily-developed areas like the Northeast. Engineers chose Interstates that weren't as straight or easy on the driver over clearing out even larger amounts of developed and undeveloped land for these Interstates.


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## rick1016

^^ You drive over 100 mph???


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## TexasBoi

Gaeus said:


> Why does Dallas got more highway projects than any other in United States? .


NO they don't. There are so many highways in Dallas that need repair that they don't know where to begin. Most of Dallas transportation funds from the federal government is due to the light rail. Dallas gets as much funding like those other cities you named.


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## rick1016

^^ Oh btw I agree with everything you said.


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## sonysnob

FM 2258 said:


> ^^
> 
> It's out of order but I doubt it would cause any confusion or commotion. You even have interstates that cross each other and become "reversed" in order like Interstate 75 and 85.


Now why when the original interstate numbering system was devised they had to leave such a huge gap between 75 and 81 in th north is beyond me...


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## geogregor

xzmattzx said:


> I drive well over the speed limit, even over 100 mph sometimes, but I will play devil's advocate here.
> 
> The reason that there are lower speed limits here compared to Germany, as you mentioned, is that American Interstates were built in a different way than German autobahns. Autobahns don't have curves that are as sharp or hills that are as steep as Interstates. Autobahns were built to allow for as much straight road and easy driving as possible. (Hitler also contended that the Autobahns could be used as emergency landing strips for planes.) It was not feasible to do this in the U.S., epsecially in heavily-developed areas like the Northeast. Engineers chose Interstates that weren't as straight or easy on the driver over clearing out even larger amounts of developed and undeveloped land for these Interstates.


But how about interstate in let say Wyoming, Dakotas or anywhere on West?
They are much more straight than any German motorway. German motorways are technicaly not that fantastic. Some european countries with speed limits have better motorways (but this speed limit is 80 not 55mph). Germans just think that most people are not suicidal and drive safe speed.
Then you have wide median.
You can land Jumbo on some of interstates. 
And even on east coast density od populaton is nowhere near of Germany.
I think it's just innertia and lack of courage that states don't try to rise speed limits to 80 or 90 mph.


----------



## xzmattzx

geogregor said:


> But how about interstate in let say Wyoming, Dakotas or anywhere on West?
> They are much more straight than any German motorway. German motorways are technicaly not that fantastic. Some european countries with speed limits have better motorways (but this speed limit is 80 not 55mph). Germans just think that most people are not suicidal and drive safe speed.
> Then you have wide median.
> You can land Jumbo on some of interstates.
> And even on east coast density od populaton is nowhere near of Germany.
> I think it's just innertia and lack of courage that states don't try to rise speed limits to 80 or 90 mph.


Speed limits are higher in rural areas; the speed limit is 80 mph in parts of Texas, 75 in many Western states, and 70 in many rural Southern areas. Still, Interstates were built with sharper curves, steeper grades, and more blind areas than German Autobahns, so (all other things the same,) more caution needs to be used on Interstates than on Autobahns.


----------



## xXFallenXx

the speed limit for one part of highway 395 is completely ridiculous. there is a stretch of the freeway that is COMPLETELY straight, absolutely no turns at all and flat for about 20 miles. the freeway is 4 lanes wide and the speed limit is 65 mph. WTF? wheres the logic in that?


----------



## LtBk

xXFallenXx said:


> the speed limit for one part of highway 395 is completely ridiculous. there is a stretch of the freeway that is COMPLETELY straight, absolutely no turns at all and flat for about 20 miles. the freeway is 4 lanes wide and the speed limit is 65 mph. WTF? wheres the logic in that?


Well, as long as we stuck with Anglo-Saxon mentality of "speed is bad" and over half of US drivers being shitty, it will remain low.


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## xXFallenXx

You wanna see bad drivers (or good depending on how you look at it)? go to china. damn they are crazy!


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## ChrisZwolle

LtBk said:


> Well, as long as we stuck with Anglo-Saxon mentality of "speed is bad" and over half of US drivers being shitty, it will remain low.


Funny, every Dutchmen who was in the US, and drove there, says the Americans are much more disciplined drivers than in Europe.


----------



## LtBk

Chris1491 said:


> Funny, every Dutchmen who was in the US, and drove there, says the Americans are much more disciplined drivers than in Europe.


Define disciplined and which state did they go?


----------



## Paddington

geogregor said:


> Somehow Germans can handle high speed. Why Americans can't??
> Speed limit 55-65 mph is way to low for modern roads and cars. It was good for cars without all this electronics like ABS and so on. In Europe limits are much higher and we don't have more accidents than USA. In most countries it is over 80mph (130kmh) and Germany don't have speed limit on motorways.
> I don't speak about limits on local roads beacouse they are fine. On interstate should be 80.
> *70mph is in UK but everyone drive 80-90mph. If you do it cops won't bother you. They will stop you if you do more than 90. People slow down just in front of speed cameras.*
> So limit should be risen to let say 80 or 85 and enforced.


You'll be lucky to go 50 mph on a British motorway. They are perpetually congested at all hours of the day.


----------



## geogregor

Paddington said:


> You'll be lucky to go 50 mph on a British motorway. They are perpetually congested at all hours of the day.


Belive me, I drove 90mph even around London (M25). Also on M4, and M40.
Fortunatelly I didn't have to drive in rush hours


----------



## geogregor

xzmattzx said:


> Speed limits are higher in rural areas; the speed limit is 80 mph in parts of Texas, 75 in many Western states, and 70 in many rural Southern areas.* Still, Interstates were built with sharper curves, steeper grades, and more blind areas than German Autobahns*, so (all other things the same,) more caution needs to be used on Interstates than on Autobahns.


I disagree.
German motorways are not that straight. There is plenty of sharp curves and exits that requires slowing down to 40 mph before you can take them.
They are not that superior. Some of them which were rebuild in last 10 years are great but older not so so.
I15 from LA to Las Vegas is so damn straight, why don't they set speed limit there at 90mph? 
It has more to do with mentality and politics than with construction of the roads.


----------



## Billpa

xzmattzx said:


> I drive well over the speed limit, even over 100 mph sometimes, but I will play devil's advocate here.


I'm not a "55 saves lives" guy, but I don't want ANYONE going 100+ around me. No offense, but if the prevailing speed is 70-80, doing 20 or 30 mph faster is not safe.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

geogregor said:


> It has more to do with mentality and politics than with construction of the roads.


That is a fact for almost every speed limit.


----------



## xzmattzx

Billpa said:


> I'm not a "55 saves lives" guy, but I don't want ANYONE going 100+ around me. No offense, but if the prevailing speed is 70-80, doing 20 or 30 mph faster is not safe.


I don't really go over 100 just because it's much more wear and tear on a car. I don't drive that fast in this area, since it's too busy, but when I have driven on rural Interstates I do it. For instance, I drove to Fort Lauderdale a couple times and went through the night; going 100 or 110 through the nothingness of South Carolina at 3 AM seems reasonable.


----------



## jchernin

^ rural stretches are def different.
if i were driving through s. carolina id prob drive over 100 too!!!!

i-5 in cali is (in)famous for being straight, empty and high-speed. ive seen many, many people going over 100, tho i myself dont ever really go above 85-90 - too much stress on the car and gas mileage starts going down.


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## FM 2258

^^

Yeah, rural stretches are much different. Interstates don't need speed limits once you get out in the middle of no where. I've seen pictures of Interstate 5 between Los Angeles and Sacramento and it looks empty. 

















pictures from westcoastroads.com


----------



## hkskyline

*Government enforcing rule that Mexican truckers speak English *
31 August 2007

HARLINGEN, Texas (AP) - Interstate truck and bus drivers across America may find themselves pulled off the highway if state troopers or vehicle inspectors find they can't speak English. 

The requirement has been on the books for decades, but enforcement has begun before Mexican trucks are allowed in the U.S. interior as of Sept. 6. 

"We have found people in violation of this for a number of years and we're working feverishly to correct it," said John Hill, head of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration. 

Since 1971, federal law has said that commercial drivers must read and speak English "sufficiently to understand highway traffic signs and signals and directions given in English and to respond to official inquiries." 

Hill said the language deficiency was found mostly in the commercial zone that varies from 25 miles to 75 miles north of the Mexican border, but since inspectors there are bilingual and Mexican truckers are not allowed past that zone, it hasn't been an issue. 

But after more than a decade of legal wrangling, U.S. highways are opening up. 

The North American Free Trade Agreement in 1994 called for Mexican and U.S. trucks to travel freely throughout one another's nations, but the provision was stalled by labor unions and environmental groups' arguments that the trucks are unsafe. 

A pilot program allowing a limited number of already approved Mexican trucks to pass the border zone was set to begin as early as Saturday, but Hill said no trucks will pass beyond the border zone pending a final report by the inspector general. The program is now set to take effect Thursday. 

On Friday, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals denied a request made by the Teamsters union, the Sierra Club and the nonprofit Public Citizen to halt the program. The appeals court ruled the groups have not satisfied the legal requirements to immediately stop what the government is calling a "demonstration project," but can continue to argue their case. 

The government contends that further delays in the project will strain the relationship between the U.S. and Mexico. 

Mexican truckers, meanwhile, said they were prepared to leave merchandise in Mexican warehouses if U.S. authorities insisted on fines for not knowing English in the border zone. 

"We have been talking with U.S. authorities," said Luis Moreno Sesma, president of Mexico's national chamber of cargo haulers. "The law says that the operators should know English to cross the border, but we have said they should have special consideration for the border guys." 

The language requirement is part of a long checklist -- including criminal background and drug and alcohol tests -- that carriers must pass to go into the interior. Also required are complete vehicle safety and emissions inspections. 

U.S. commercial drivers going into the Mexican interior, part of the reciprocal agreement, will have to speak Spanish. 

Under the new enforcement regulations, drivers who can't speak English in the commercial zone may be ticketed and fined. Those beyond the border zone will also be pulled off the road. 

Richard Henderson, director of government affairs for the Commercial Vehicle Safety Alliance, a nonprofit group representing federal and state highway inspectors and highway patrols, said the requirement was a "no brainer." 

"The bottom line is safety," Henderson said. "Obviously, if (the driver) can't speak English he's not going to know what some of the regulations are." 

José Rocha Rodríguez was one of the first drivers to be sanctioned for not knowing English. He said he wasn't fined but given a notice saying he could not pass the border zone. 

"They talk to you now in English and they've never done that before," he said. 

Jose Mendoza, a 25-year-old driver in Nuevo Laredo, Mexico, said that it seemed the United State authorities were always coming up with new ways to stop Mexican trucks from traveling beyond the border. 

He said the drivers felt discriminated against, and that U.S. officials were looking for any pretext to fine them. 

"They are giving us all kinds of fines. Last week, for a headlight that I could change myself, they charged $150. And this after they saw that I was changing it," Mendoza said. 

Rigoberto Castañeda, who has been driving for 17 years, agreed that the biggest obstacle the truckers faced was discrimination. 

So did Primitivo Gonzalez, owner of a small trucking company. 

"The rules they are using right now are very strict," he said. 

------ 

Associated Press Writer Jorge Vargas contributed to this report from Nueveo Laredo, Mexico


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, you fall asleep driving 65MPH there...


----------



## Yörch1

^^ Another excuse, just three days before the deadline for opening the ways to Mexican trucks and viceversa. 

But, will Mexican government demand that US truck drivers speak Spanish and will Québec do the same and ask them to speak French?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yoryi said:


> ^^ Another excuse, just three days before the deadline for opening the ways to Mexican trucks and viceversa.
> 
> But, will Mexican government demand that US truck drivers speak Spanish and will Québec do the same and ask them to speak French?


English is an international business languague, spoken by many who don't have it as first languague. 

In Europe, sometimes you'll see trouble with Polish, Ukrainian or Russian driver who don't speak a word english. It's easier to expect from people to speak at least English, rather than expect some driver to speak 25 languages. 
Some eastern European drivers speak a little German, German is an important languague in Europe too, spoken by many as their 3rd languague.


----------



## FM 2258

Chris1491 said:


> Yeah, you fall asleep driving 65MPH there...


I remember a couple years ago I went out to some caves in west Texas with a girl I was dating and on Interstate 10 I was averaging 95mph. She noticed I was doing between 90 and 100 and I said "let's see what the speed limit feels like." I slowed down to 75 and it felt like we could just step out and be OK. Slowing down to 55 felt like we were crawling. I guess that's "highway hypnosis" for you. I remember reading or seeing somewhere that Interstates are usually built to be straight as possible which leads to sleepiness on long journeys.


----------



## Club_Dru

I drove once in Toronto at the highway 401 and the QEW. The Canadians were verry diciplined drivers in compare with Dutch or European drivers. 
I think because there is a 'stay you're lane system'. And most vehicles are automatic, sow everybody can drive easygoing.

I live at the German border. If I want to go to the nortern or southern Netherlands, I always take the German autobahn. In my opinion, German exits-curves are too sharp in comparing with the Dutch-exits.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

FM 2258 said:


> I slowed down to 75 and it felt like we could just step out and be OK.


I know what you mean, i just drove on the ringroad of my city, and you have to slow down from a crappy 70km/h to a even more crappy 50km/h limit. It felt like i'd have to gear back to the 1st gear, but i had to gear back from 5th to 4th gear. 50km/h (31MPH) on a 2x2 road without cyclist or sidewalk just makes no sense. It's all political, offcourse there was a speed trap at the 50km/h section. 

Speed checks here just feel like some extra tax, the goverment makes almost half a billion euro's anually from speed fines, and the majority of the income is from fines under 20km/h too fast.


----------



## DanielFigFoz

FM 2258 said:


> I remember a couple years ago I went out to some caves in west Texas with a girl I was dating and on Interstate 10 I was averaging 95mph. She noticed I was doing between 90 and 100 and I said "let's see what the speed limit feels like." I slowed down to 75 and it felt like we could just step out and be OK. Slowing down to 55 felt like we were crawling. I guess that's "highway hypnosis" for you. I remember reading or seeing somewhere that Interstates are usually built to be straight as possible which leads to sleepiness on long journeys.


Yeah a few months ago me and my parents turned of a motorway in Spain, and going from 120 right to 90 felt like afterwads a pedestrian could overtake us.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

andrewsimons said:


> I drove once in Toronto at the highway 401 and the QEW. The Canadians were verry diciplined drivers in compare with Dutch or European drivers.
> I think because there is a 'stay you're lane system'. And most vehicles are automatic, sow everybody can drive easygoing.


You've got to be kidding me. This so-called "stay in your lane" system does not make any sense what-so-ever. I don't even want to compare the US with Europe, just look at different states. Since I moved to Washington state almost a month ago, I have noticed an obvious improvement in drivers' behaviour - very few of them block the left lane. Compared to Germany or France, they are still slow to move over, but compared to California, they are much more disciplined. Besides, it seems that the Washington Department of Transportation agrees with my point of view because every few kilometres they post "Slower Traffic Keep Right" signs not only on motorways but also on 2+1 roads. They even go beyond that and recommend slower traffic to drive on the shoulder (emergency lane) on 1+1 roads. How cool is that?


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Hehe... Maybe it's time to remove all these useless textual signs from the road? I went to Montana on Labour Day holidays and found out that Montana DOT uses more pictorial warning signs (some resembled European a lot) than other Western states.


----------



## Yörch1

Chris1491 said:


> English is an international business languague, spoken by many who don't have it as first languague.
> 
> In Europe, sometimes you'll see trouble with Polish, Ukrainian or Russian driver who don't speak a word english. It's easier to expect from people to speak at least English, rather than expect some driver to speak 25 languages.
> Some eastern European drivers speak a little German, German is an important languague in Europe too, spoken by many as their 3rd languague.


That's OK for Europe where you can find more than 25 languages, but here in North America there are only 3, and all of them (English, French and Spanish) are among the most spread languages in the world... And, I don't think it is too much difficult to find a Spanish-speaking officer in southern US.


----------



## miamicanes

Whether or not it's required, I think it would be utterly insane to send American truck drivers who can't speak Spanish OR Mexican truck drivers who can't speak English more than a few miles into the opposite country. I mean, for God's sake, what's a proud, America-lovin', God-fearin' English-only truck driver going to do if his truck breaks down somewhere like Tecate, where LITERALLY nobody who works in a service industry is likely to speak more than broken English? And I'd argue the same about sending truck drivers into Quebec who don't speak French. Sure, everyone and his brother in Montreal speaks perfectly good English... but that's NOT necessarily the case even 10-20 miles away from the island. You could possibly cut the driver some slack if he's only driving from the US to Montreal, but sending a driver with no grasp of French to Quebec City would be nuts.

That said, Mexico and the US have a LONG way to go to make driving across the border as safe and painless as it is for Americans and Canadians. At the very least, American auto insurance should be valid in Mexico, and Mexico needs to quit automatically arresting Americans involved in accidents and holding them for days or weeks afterward. As it stands, an American would have to be absolutely _insane_ to risk driving in Mexico under current laws. An American who rear-ends a car in Mexico and damages the rear bumper (with no injuries) automatically gets thrown in jail and treated worse than a drunk driver in the US who's been charged with _manslaughter_. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, an American driving a car in Mexico that GETS rear-ended by a MEXICAN driver would be jailed and treated like a criminal, too, even if he did absolutely nothing wrong himself. Apparently, in Mexico, merely being _involved_ in an automobile accident is a *criminal offense*, regardless of fault. From what I've read, if there's an accident and anybody _does_ get hurt, they'll actually arrest _everyone_ -- drivers, passengers, and maybe even _eyewitnesses_(?!?) -- and can hold everyone for hours, or even days, until they've decided who's actually responsible for the accident. mg: 

In Mexico, you're guilty until proven innocent.


----------



## TheCat

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> You've got to be kidding me. This so-called "stay in your lane" system does not make any sense what-so-ever. I don't even want to compare the US with Europe, just look at different states. Since I moved to Washington state almost a month ago, I have noticed an obvious improvement in drivers' behaviour - very few of them block the left lane. Compared to Germany or France, they are still slow to move over, but compared to California, they are much more disciplined. Besides, it seems that the Washington Department of Transportation agrees with my point of view because every few kilometres they post "Slower Traffic Keep Right" signs not only on motorways but also on 2+1 roads. They even go beyond that and recommend slower traffic to drive on the shoulder (emergency lane) on 1+1 roads. How cool is that?


Well, drivers here in Ontario are apparently relatively disciplined, even as I read on this same forum several times. People do not usually block the left lane, but the case with the 401 (on which the poster to whom you responded drove) is a little special. That highway is very large, and usually there is a lot of traffic (even in quiet times). Also, especially while inside Toronto, the 401 can be quite confusing to drive on because its width changes and the right lanes sometimes just disappear and sometimes several may reappear, and in addition sometimes the left lanes suddenly exit the collector lanes and merge onto the express, and vice versa. Because of this, people don't like to keep to the right-most lane, because that lane is a little "unstable", and also has many cars joining the freeway. I usually like to keep to a lane that's at least one position left of the right-most lane (which still usually leaves from 2 to around 6 lanes to the left of me, when in Toronto). But generally speaking, if traffic is light, people here in Toronto don't hog the left-most lane, and generally it is open for overtaking (read - speeders who generally drive much faster than the speed limit ).


----------



## -Corey-

Gaeus said:


> Why does Dallas got more highway projects than any other in United States? Don't they know there are other cities out there that needs attention such as DC, NYC, Seattle, LA, Atlanta, Chicago and many other cities? Do they see the traffic on these cities? Its getting worst.


LA has more than Dallas..


----------



## -Corey-

California the worst?? not even close.. id say New York..


----------



## Paddington

Michigan has the worst quality roads, however they do tend to be of adequate size for the traffic.

California probably has the biggest problem with perpetual congestion on its roads. Even its smaller cities like San Diego have expressways that are congested at most times of day. In the coastal cities, they're also surprisingly banged up for a region with such mild weather (i.e. less expansion/contraction and freeze/thaw problems compared to elsewhere). California does get major points though for impressive network of expressways, large size of roads, impressive stack interchanges, numerous advances in road construction, etc.

New York state has similar problems to California, plus even more potholes. I give New York credit though, because downstate (especially NYC) has lots of feasible alternatives to driving. Upstate New York has some of the harshest weather in the country.


----------



## AUchamps

miamicanes said:


> Whether or not it's required, I think it would be utterly insane to send American truck drivers who can't speak Spanish OR Mexican truck drivers who can't speak English more than a few miles into the opposite country. I mean, for God's sake, what's a proud, America-lovin', God-fearin' English-only truck driver going to do if his truck breaks down somewhere like Tecate, where LITERALLY nobody who works in a service industry is likely to speak more than broken English? And I'd argue the same about sending truck drivers into Quebec who don't speak French. Sure, everyone and his brother in Montreal speaks perfectly good English... but that's NOT necessarily the case even 10-20 miles away from the island. You could possibly cut the driver some slack if he's only driving from the US to Montreal, but sending a driver with no grasp of French to Quebec City would be nuts.
> 
> That said, Mexico and the US have a LONG way to go to make driving across the border as safe and painless as it is for Americans and Canadians. At the very least, American auto insurance should be valid in Mexico, and Mexico needs to quit automatically arresting Americans involved in accidents and holding them for days or weeks afterward. As it stands, an American would have to be absolutely _insane_ to risk driving in Mexico under current laws. An American who rear-ends a car in Mexico and damages the rear bumper (with no injuries) automatically gets thrown in jail and treated worse than a drunk driver in the US who's been charged with _manslaughter_. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, an American driving a car in Mexico that GETS rear-ended by a MEXICAN driver would be jailed and treated like a criminal, too, even if he did absolutely nothing wrong himself. Apparently, in Mexico, merely being _involved_ in an automobile accident is a *criminal offense*, regardless of fault. From what I've read, if there's an accident and anybody _does_ get hurt, they'll actually arrest _everyone_ -- drivers, passengers, and maybe even _eyewitnesses_(?!?) -- and can hold everyone for hours, or even days, until they've decided who's actually responsible for the accident. mg:
> 
> In Mexico, you're guilty until proven innocent.


That's F'd up.


----------



## Yörch1

miamicanes said:


> In fact, if I'm not mistaken, an American driving a car in Mexico that GETS rear-ended by a MEXICAN driver would be jailed and treated like a criminal, too, even if he did absolutely nothing wrong himself. Apparently, in Mexico, merely being _involved_ in an automobile accident is a *criminal offense*, regardless of fault. From what I've read, if there's an accident and anybody _does_ get hurt, *they'll actually arrest everyone -- drivers, passengers, and maybe even eyewitnesses(?!?)* -- and can hold everyone for hours, or even days, until they've decided who's actually responsible for the accident. mg:
> 
> In Mexico, you're guilty until proven innocent.


Spring breaker urban legends?

I think you know about Mexican law as good as I know about laws in Miami. I mean: nothing. 

In other points I totally agree with you. Sending abroad a driver who does not know the local language is not a good idea.


----------



## AUchamps

Yoryi said:


> Spring breaker urban legends?
> 
> I think you know about Mexican law as good as I know about laws in Miami. I mean: nothing.
> 
> In other points I totally agree with you. Sending abroad a driver who does not know the local language is not a good idea.


I saw a special on this exact thing happening about 10 years ago on NBC Dateline. Family from California was down in the Baja and got in an accident and the dad got thrown in Jail.

http://studentsafety.ucsd.edu/mexico_tips.asp

Game. Set. MATCH.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yoryi said:


> In other points I totally agree with you. Sending abroad a driver who does not know the local language is not a good idea.


Not knowing a local language is not such a problem. In Europe, there are dozens of language within a 1000 mile radius. You can't expect a trucker or anyone to know 25 languages. But the international business language is English, whether you like it or not. I think it's important everyone knows English.


----------



## GENIUS LOCI

Euromast said:


> yes these kind of shields are all over Holland


All over Europe I would say


----------



## GENIUS LOCI

^^
Infact it was written in the 1st post


> transportation planners in the United States are beginning to borrow an idea that's common in Europe to make the freeway corridor more livable: see-through sound walls.


----------



## ADCS

AUchamps said:


> DAMN FIRES.
> 
> They're turning Southern California into HELL.
> 
> You're burning in Hell guys. HELL.
> 
> What's it like in Hell right now? Lots of smoke and ash in the air?


Turning SC into hell? Seems to me that it was already hell to start with...

Heheheh, 

Don't kill me, LA forumers


----------



## KHS

hkskyline said:


> *A new twist to highway sound walls: You can see through them *


What is new about that?


----------



## Jeroen669

@Chris: you're forgetting the A12 near Arnhem.  Though that one is quite annoying. If the sun is standing on a wrong position you can get blinded by the reflection of it. hno: (don't know whether these problems are elsewhere too?)


----------



## wyqtor

I really hope someone from the Austrian Transportation Ministry reads this thread...


----------



## Verso

Well, maybe that's new for America. We have them too, and I don't see a reason why we shouldn't, I don't wanna drive in corridor.


----------



## phattonez

^^If you didn't want us to kill you then why would you troll?


----------



## Maxx☢Power

They're still ugly though.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Top AADT volumes in Los Angeles area per freeway;

Highway 2 - Glendale Freeway -> Los Angeles-San Fernando Road 153.000
Interstate 5 - Santa Ana Freeway -> Santa Ana-Grand Avenue 355.000
Interstate 10 - Santa Monica Freeway -> Los Angeles-Hoover Street 329.000
Highway 14 - Antelope Valley Freeway -> Santa Clarita-San Fernando Road 164.00
Interstate 15 - Ontario Freeway -> Ontario-Jurupa Avenue 223.000
Highway 22 - Garden Grove Freeway -> Orange-Manchester Avenue 196.000
Highway 30 - San Bernardino-Waterman Avenue 113.000
Highway 55 - Costa Mesa Freeway -> Tustin-McFadden Street 277.000
Highway 57 - Orange Freeway -> Placentia-Orangethorpe Avenue 296.000
Highway 60 - Pomona Freeway -> Diamond Bar-Grand Avenue 341.000
Highway 71 - Chino Valley Freeway -> Chino Avenue 85.000
Highway 73 - San Joaquin Hills corridor -> Costa Mesa jct route 55 157.000
Highway 90 - Los Angeles-I-405 junction 73.000
Highway 91 - Riverside Freeway -> Anaheim-Lakeview Avenue 307.000
US 101 - Ventura Freeway -> Los Angeles-Havenhurst Avenue 324.000
Interstate 105 - Anderson Freeway -> Los Angeles-Vermont Avenue 252.000
Interstate 110 - Harbor Freeway -> Los Angeles-Slauson Avenue 326.000
Highway 118 - Ronald Reagan Freeway -> Los Angeles-Woodley Avenue 243.000
Highway 133 - Tollway -> Irvine-Boulevard 48.000
Highway 134 - Ventura Freeway -> Glendale-Glendale Avenue 245.000
Highway 170 - Hollywood Freeway -> Los Angeles-Oxnard Street 187.000
Interstate 210 - Foothill Freeway -> Pasadena-Hill Avenue 302.000
Interstate 215 - Riverside Freeway -> San Bernardino-Orange Show Road 183.000
Highway 241 - Foothill corridor -> Junction route 133 48.000
Highway 261 - tollway -> Irvine-Jamboree Overcrossing 56.000
*Interstate 405 - San Diego Freeway -> Seal Beach jct route 605 390.000*
Interstate 605 - San Gabriel River Freeway -> Jct route 105 301.000
Interstate 710 - Long Beach Freeway -> South Gate-Imperial Highway 233.000


----------



## LtBk

And lot of these freeways are still 2x4.


----------



## sonysnob

^^ Which makes sense, you wouldn't expect to see a lot of extremely large freeways given just how many highways dot the La landscape.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

sonysnob said:


> ^^ Which makes sense, you wouldn't expect to see a lot of extremely large freeways given just how many highways dot the La landscape.


This is funny, because LA doesn't have a large freeway system at all, counted to population. I did some research myself, and when counting to the number of residents per kilometer (or mile) of freeway, LA has about 11.890 inhabitants per kilometer freeway.

My list isn't finished by far yet, but i can already tell, that metropolitan areas like San Francisco Bay, San Diego, Denver, Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa Bay, Baltimore have a much smaller share of people using 1 mile of freeway. 

Metropolitan Orlando for instance, has 5.890 inhabitants per kilometer freeway. Denver has 6.691 inhabitants per kilometer freeway.


----------



## Gaeus

SoCal freeways are way out of this world but Atlanta GA freeways are totally wide especially the downtown freeway (I75-I85). I think its like 12 - 14 lanes. I went there last week and its way too cool at night (no traffic) but in the morning, it was a nightmare of traffic jam.


----------



## LordMandeep

THE 401 is wide....

yeah anyways the I80 near NJ/Pen is like 4-5 lanes wide in the middle of nowhere.

It is strange really...


----------



## TICONLA1

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> After driving in Southern California, I had an impression that they really prefer concrete surface for their motorways. But then, they have a huge motorway network, so I would guess concrete works better in terms of cost.


Not only that, concrete makes a great base for asphalt, i think most of the O.C. toll roads are asphalt, thru the cuts and fill areas, all the bridges are concrete, of course. ........to save costs.!!!


----------



## Gaeus

I wonder if they ever widen I-405 to 14 lane perhaps. The traffic is way too ridiculous.


----------



## Nephasto

TICONLA1 said:


> Not only that, concrete makes a great base for asphalt


What do you mean? to put asphalt on top of the concrete surface when it starts getting rough?
We do that in Portugal sometimes on your few concrete motorway stretches. But I guess that's mainly because the concrete surface was getting bad.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Gaeus said:


> I wonder if they ever widen I-405 to 14 lane perhaps. The traffic is way too ridiculous.


Well, there are actually only 2 routes from the southeastern suburbs to Downtown; the I-5 and I-405, serving millions. Almost the entire population of Orange County (3.098.121) has to use the Santa Ana or San Diego Freeways at some point to reach Los Angeles. 

The 405 has a 390.000 AADT on only 2x6 lanes to 2x7 lanes (theoretical capacity 288.000 / 336.000)! That's pretty crazy between the Garden Grove & San Gabriel River Freeways. 

To handle that much traffic properly, you need 2x9 lanes for that amount of traffic. However, 9 lanes are highly impractical, so a different route is better. However, this area is densely populated, with backyards immediatly to the emergency lanes. 

Rail-based mass transit only reaches Long Beach and Norwalk, so that's not an alternative either. Maybe they should extend some lines to the Santa Ana/Irvine region. It wouldn't solve everything, but it might be able to handle some of the growth in that region.

20 years, ago, Irvine was the most southern suburb. Now, there are already about 11 new suburbs totalling 531.000 residents, most of them living closer to San Diego then Los Angeles.


----------



## Paddington

Chriszwolle said:


> This is funny, because LA doesn't have a large freeway system at all, counted to population. I did some research myself, and when counting to the number of residents per kilometer (or mile) of freeway, LA has about 11.890 inhabitants per kilometer freeway.
> 
> My list isn't finished by far yet, but i can already tell, that metropolitan areas like San Francisco Bay, San Diego, Denver, Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa Bay, Baltimore have a much smaller share of people using 1 mile of freeway.
> 
> Metropolitan Orlando for instance, has 5.890 inhabitants per kilometer freeway. Denver has 6.691 inhabitants per kilometer freeway.


A better analysis would divide inhabitants by (expressway miles * lanes).


----------



## Ballota

Amazing video! :master:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Verso said:


> ^ It is, if you read the comments.


You're right. Last summer i went to a concert of him, he's an amazing guitarist. But not too well-known in Europe, so it's a small-scale concert, but that's even better. I hate stadium concerts, way overpriced and you're miles from the artist.

But let's get back to the I-75 in Atlanta. It is on level -1, with a lot of overpasses, and even parking lots on top of it. The I-20/I-75 interchange is locally known as the spaghetti interchange. (Birmingham is not the only city with such an interchange  )


----------



## pimpsquad27

Chriszwolle said:


> You're right. Last summer i went to a concert of him, he's an amazing guitarist. But not too well-known in Europe, so it's a small-scale concert, but that's even better. I hate stadium concerts, way overpriced and you're miles from the artist.
> 
> But let's get back to the I-75 in Atlanta. It is on level -1, with a lot of overpasses, and even parking lots on top of it. The I-20/I-75 interchange is locally known as the spaghetti interchange. (Birmingham is not the only city with such an interchange  )


The Downtown Connector is when I-85 and I-75 combines as one interstate. The I-85/285 is known as the spaghetti junction not 75/20 there is no such thing.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't know, it says so in Google Earth


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Indeed, the 85/285 freeway interchange is also called spaghetti junction.









To be frank, the 20/75 interchange looks more spaghetti then this one, since this one is a quite standard 4/5 level stack.


----------



## Verso

@pimpsquad27: are you the guy who made this video (known as Freewayjim on YouTube)? He's made some cool vids, including this one!


----------



## Tom 958

sonysnob said:


> From what I remember from Atlanta, there are a lot of left hand exits and entrances near downtown because of the HOV lane that adorns the inner parts of the carriageways. Many of the left hand exits and entrances are for the HOV lane only


There are only two HOV exits on the downtown connector, one in each direction. Except for them, all exits are on the right. We change lanes like that because, well, just because.


----------



## Jeroen669

Great movie. Something that really strikes me is the bad anticipation to other traffic, considering the huge amount of unneccasary braking lights... If I would see that on a motorway here, I'd immediatly be alarmed.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Nah, watch it in Dutch traffic. People brake all the time for nothing, let go the gas would do the same. It creates an unnecessary chain reaction effect.


----------



## Jeroen669

Yeah, indeed. I don't get irritated in traffic very fast, but those are one of the things which create unnecessary much stress. You cannot see on the braking lights whether the driver is braking just a little bit or that he's making some emergency stop.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I have a question to Atlantan forumers;

why has the traffic volume dropped from 349.000 in 2004 to 286.000 in 2006 on the I-75/I-85 duplex? That's quite a significant drop!


----------



## DanielFigFoz

Very nice and impressive!


----------



## Tom 958

Chriszwolle said:


> I have a question to Atlantan forumers;
> 
> why has the traffic volume dropped from 349.000 in 2004 to 286.000 in 2006 on the I-75/I-85 duplex? That's quite a significant drop!


It hasn't. As I understand it, traffic counts there aren't done by cables in the road, but by software that interprets video images from traffic cameras. The cameras and software are pretty good at assessing traffic conditions, but they suck at actually counting cars.

IIRC, at one point a few years back the traffic 'counts' went up to over 400k. Actual traffic volumes didn't get that huge, either, which is a good thing considering Atlanta's problems with meeting air quality standards. At the time I _did_ ask GDOT WTF, and what they told me then is what I'm telling you now.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Okay, thanks. And what is the correct number? 300k+ is more California-like.


----------



## Tom 958

Chriszwolle said:


> Okay, thanks. And what is the correct number? 300k+ is more California-like.


I donno, but 300k seems about right.


----------



## TheCat

Jeroen669 said:


> Great movie. Something that really strikes me is the bad anticipation to other traffic, considering the huge amount of unneccasary braking lights... If I would see that on a motorway here, I'd immediatly be alarmed.





Chriszwolle said:


> ^^ Nah, watch it in Dutch traffic. People brake all the time for nothing, let go the gas would do the same. It creates an unnecessary chain reaction effect.


I think it also has to do with the fact that most cars in North America use automatic transmission. In heavy traffic where the average speed is low, simply releasing the gas or switching to a lower gear is very effective at reducing speed quickly on a manual transmission, but in an automatic the coupling between the engine and the wheels is loose at relatively low speeds, and using the brakes may be necessary. Also, if a driver sees someone brake ahead, he/she might tap the brake slightly to make sure that the driver behind is aware as well.

Personally I like to keep a larger-than-usual distance from the car ahead of me when the traffic is moving very slowly, so that I don't have to press the brakes until I come very close (which works well even with an automatic transmission), but many drivers don't do that.


----------



## LtBk

Verso said:


> ^ It is, if you read the comments. As for overtaking on the right: I get it that the traffic in the US is so dense that it's easier just to overtake on the lane that's empty.


Its because Americans love to hog faster lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> Currently, I-75 is 15 lanes wide north of the Windy Hill Road interchange (8 northbound, 7 southbound), and as such, is *the widest freeway in the United States.*





> The project plans to expand the freeway from I-285 northward to the Wade Green Road interchange, *making it to 26 lanes (13 lanes each both northbound and southbound)* at Windy Hill.


:cheers: that's impressive.


----------



## pimpsquad27

Chriszwolle said:


> I don't know, it says so in Google Earth


Goggle earth is inaccurate sometimes. First of all they have it listed as >


----------



## pimpsquad27

Chriszwolle said:


> I don't know, it says so in Google Earth


Goggle earth is inaccurate sometimes. First of all they have it listed as 20-75 interchange when it's supposed to be 20-85/75. The spaghetti junction (85-285) is indeed larger that the 20 interchange.

Here's the difference between the two.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7_BoDAxv4g 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAc0FxINeO4


----------



## pimpsquad27

*Big Atlanta Rush!*

Zoom through the metro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdIi2brMpyg


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I've been thinking about the Toronto 401 and the Los Angeles 405.

401 has about 423.000, and 405 about 390.000, the latter being AADT-figures. AADT, are those workdays or weekdays? That makes some difference (usually up to 10%). Maybe the 405 has 429.000 on workdays, the usual figure for measuring how busy a road is. (workdays, not weekdays or weekenddays). But then again, maybe the 401 is also an AADT figure, what whould propelled the workdays to 465.300. 

So, in general, i'm not sure if the AADT is exactly the same as the workday figure used in Europe. (Europeans usually calculate with all days in a year, except weekenddays). 

With workday-figures, it's easier to determine what measures should be taken. 

However, it varies from place to place, i know Hungarian and France motorways are more busy in the weekend, but Dutch, German and Belgian motorways are more busy during the workweek.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

to sum up;

Workday: monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, friday
Weekendday: saturday, sunday
Weekday: whole week.


----------



## ADCS

Chriszwolle said:


> to sum up;
> 
> Workday: monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, friday
> Weekendday: saturday, sunday
> Weekday: whole week.


We usually use "weekday" for what you call a workday.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Okay. Annual Average Daily Traffic looks like they take the average day of a year. (total intensity divided by 365 days)


----------



## Verso

And some countries have other days regarded as weekend (like France has mondays, I think), but that doesn't matter so much as long as there are two days a week free of work. I bet some poor countries have just one, or not even that.


----------



## mgk920

*New section of interstate to open monday 2007-11-12*

I-355 between I-55 and I-80 in suburban Chicagoland opens Monday:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/transportation/chi-071108bikeride,0,7421958.story

:dance:

Mike


----------



## Verso

^ Nice! Does anyone know which freeways/motorways (be it Interstates, US Highways, Loops etc.) are currently UC and planned? Some map maybe?


----------



## ChrisZwolle




----------



## ADCS

Verso said:


> ^ Nice! Does anyone know which freeways/motorways (be it Interstates, US Highways, Loops etc.) are currently UC and planned? Some map maybe?


The biggest planned project that I am aware of is the extension of I-69 from Indianapolis down through Evansville, Memphis and Houston to the Mexican border at three spurs leading to Brownsville, McAllen and Laredo. 

There is also the extension of I-49 from Shreveport up through western Arkansas via the I-540 corridor, then up the US 71 corridor to Kansas City. There is also a planned southern extension from Lafayette through Acadiana to New Orleans.


----------



## mgk920

ADCS said:


> The biggest planned project that I am aware of is the extension of I-69 from Indianapolis down through Evansville, Memphis and Houston to the Mexican border at three spurs leading to Brownsville, McAllen and Laredo.
> 
> There is also the extension of I-49 from Shreveport up through western Arkansas via the I-540 corridor, then up the US 71 corridor to Kansas City. There is also a planned southern extension from Lafayette through Acadiana to New Orleans.


Also, from what I am aware of:
-US 78 between Memphis, TN and Birmingham, AL is being upgraded to become I-22.
-I-795 is now being marked along US 117 and 264 between I-95 near Wilson, NC and Goldsboro, NC.
-I-210 near Los Angeles, CA.

There are other new I-routes that are planned and/or under construction. One closer to home - US 41 between metro Milwaukee and Green Bay, WI will be marked with a yet undetermined I-route number when needed upgrades are completed in a few years.

There are MANY other non-interstate tollway/freeway/motorway projects planned and under construction throughout the USA, too.

Mike


----------



## Xusein

I-355 planned to be Chicago's outer-beltway in the long term? (considering if I-294 is the inner beltway)

Anyways, cool to see a new interstate extension open today!


----------



## mgk920

TenRot said:


> I-355 planned to be Chicago's outer-beltway in the long term? (considering if I-294 is the inner beltway)
> 
> Anyways, cool to see a new interstate extension open today!


Not really, it is mainly to serve local traffic. There were plans to further extend I-355 to the southeast and east and its I-80 interchange was laid out to allow for it, but its proposed routing has been heavily developed over and any additional extension in such a manner is unlikely to happen within my lifetime.

OTOH, since it opened, I have looked upon I-39 as an 'outer-outer bypass' of Chicagoland. There is a freeway/tollway planned for west of the Fox River ('Prairie Parkway'), but it faces an uncertain future. One was planned to run north-south east of the Fox River, but it was never built and its planned ROW has since been completely developed over. Hopelessly overcongested IL 59 was the result of that non-project.

I-355 opened for business at about 2200 local time on Sunday. Toll each way between I-55 and I-80 is $1 I-PASS/EZPass and $2 cash.

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

My road atlas says it has 4 exits and 2 interchanges;

Interchange I-55
Exit 127th Street in Lemont
Exit Archer Avenue in Homer Glen
Exit 159th Street in Lockport
Exit Southwest Highway (US6) in New Lenox
Interchange I-80


----------



## Paddington

Las Vegas and Phoenix both have beltways under construction.

Here in Ohio, State Route 161 is being built out as an expressway in Columbus (approx. 10 miles). U.S. 24 will be built out as a 22 mile expressway in the southwest Toledo suburbs. These are fully controlled access. There are also a number of rural routes that are being built out to "Parkway" standards with 4 lanes of mostly controlled access, but with the occasional traffic light.


----------



## Xusein

mgk920 said:


> Not really, it is mainly to serve local traffic. There were plans to further extend I-355 to the southeast and east and its I-80 interchange was laid out to allow for it, but its proposed routing has been heavily developed over and any additional extension in such a manner is unlikely to happen within my lifetime.
> 
> OTOH, since it opened, I have looked upon I-39 as an 'outer-outer bypass' of Chicagoland. There is a freeway/tollway planned for west of the Fox River ('Prairie Parkway'), but it faces an uncertain future. One was planned to run north-south east of the Fox River, but it was never built and its planned ROW has since been completely developed over. Hopelessly overcongested IL 59 was the result of that non-project.
> 
> I-355 opened for business at about 2200 local time on Sunday. Toll each way between I-55 and I-80 is $1 I-PASS/EZPass and $2 cash.
> 
> Mike


Thanks for the information. 

I guess this is good news for the people who live in that area. From what I read from the Tribune, it's in the booming exurbs.


----------



## FM 2258

Chriszwolle said:


>


I didn't realize it opened today.

From Wikipedia:



> *Southern extension*
> Des Plaines River Valley Bridge during Roll the Tollway opening ceremonies on November 11, 2007.
> Des Plaines River Valley Bridge during Roll the Tollway opening ceremonies on November 11, 2007.
> 
> In late 2005, construction began on the 12.5 miles (20.1 km) long southern extension of I-355 from I-55 in Bolingbrook to I-80 in New Lenox. This portion was built very similar to the portion of I-355 between Interstate 88 and Interstate 55. Prior to construction, local residents protested against the expressway because of reduction in their property values. In addition, some environmentalists protested because of the sensitivity of the Des Plaines River wetlands where construction would take place. Will County officials lobbied for the extension in an attempt to boost economic development in the Joliet-to-Woodridge corridor. New malls are currently planned in New Lenox and local property values are expected to increase in the area given the new access to the western and northwestern suburbs.[4]
> 
> Plans for the southern extension were nearly brought to a halt in 1995 after discovery of the Hine's Emerald Dragonfly, an endangered species, near the river wetlands. The project was allowed to continue after construction crews were trained on how to work near the habitat. The crews also agreed to keep carcasses of any dragonfly kills. In addition, separate habitats for the dragonfly were developed near the Waterfall Glen Forest Preserve in Lemont and in two other preserves in Cook and Will counties.[5]
> 
> Bidding on an excavation contract passed on November 18, 2004 with construction beginning several days later. The southern extension to I-80 opened to traffic on November 12, 2007.[6]
> 
> One of the most notable features of the new highway is the Des Plaines River Valley Bridge, a bridge over the Des Plaines River, the Chicago Sanitary and Ship Canal, the Illinois and Michigan Canal, Bluff Road, New Avenue, numerous railroads, and a major Commonwealth Edison utility corridor. The bridge is 1.3 miles (2.1 km) long.
> 
> A ribbon cutting and dedication ceremony was held on Veterans Day 2007 (November 11, 2007) when the entire length of I-355 was officially renamed the Veterans Memorial Tollway.[7] The ceremony was held near the interchange at 127th Street in Lemont. In addition to the dedication, the day's activities included a Charity Walk/Run/Roll and a Charity Bike Ride. [8] After noting the success of the festival, ISTHA announced plans to repeat the event, including closure of the entire southern extension, annually.[9] The southern extension was opened to motorized traffic in the predawn hours of November 12.


----------



## geogregor

Paddington said:


> Las Vegas and Phoenix both have beltways under construction.
> .


Any infos and pictures from some local guys about this beltways?
Generaly I wish to see some more relations from various freeway construction from across US on this thread. 
Suprisingly few pictures of any construction comparing with some other countries subforums (eastern europeans do good job with construction updates)
Come on guys, there are over 300 milions of Americans. Someone has to have camera


----------



## taiwanesedrummer36

geogregor said:


> Any infos and pictures from some local guys about this beltways?
> Generaly I wish to see some more relations from various freeway construction from across US on this thread.
> Suprisingly few pictures of any construction comparing with some other countries subforums (eastern europeans do good job with construction updates)
> Come on guys, there are over 300 milions of Americans. Someone has to have camera













*Las Vegas Beltway links:*
- Rocky Mountain Roads: Nevada Interstate 215/Bruce Woodbury Beltway
- Inner loop I-215 Beltway pictures (from 2004)
- Inner loop CC-215/future I-215 Beltway pictures (from 2004)
- Outer loop CC-215/future I-215 Beltway pictures (from 2006)
- Outer loop I-215 Beltway pictures (from 2006)












*Phoenix loop freeways links:*
- Rocky Mountain Roads: Phoenix metropolitan area
- AZ Loop 101: inner loop pictures (from 2003 & 2007)
- AZ Loop 101: outer loop pictures (from 2003, 2004 & 2007)
- AZ Loop 202: Red Mountain Freeway pictures (from 2003 & 2007)
- AZ Loop 202: Santan Freeway pictures (from 2004 & 2006)
- AZ Loop 303: Estrella Parkway initial segment


That should keep you occupied for a couple of weeks.


----------



## mgk920

*New section of interstate opens Wednesday 2007-11-14*

This is a 30 km or so long section of (future) I-22 northwest of Birmingham, AL, with a dedication ceremony to be held in the afternoon of Wednesday, 2007-11-14.

http://www.al.com/newsflash/regiona...32/1195050553239590.xml&storylist=alabamanews

:dance:

Mike


----------



## Xusein

^ I think it does.

I-73 is also another road that looks iffy that it will get completed. A lot of states to the north (especially Ohio) are moving slowly to actually plan their sections. That, or North Carolina is moving too fast, if that makes sense. But at least it makes more sense than I-74.


----------



## AUchamps

TenRot said:


> ^ I think it does.
> 
> I-73 is also another road that looks iffy that it will get completed. A lot of states to the north (especially Ohio) are moving slowly to actually plan their sections. That, or North Carolina is moving too fast, if that makes sense. But at least it makes more sense than I-74.


Here's the thing I don't get.

Why can't US 35 in Ohio(which is all freeway from I-75 to WV) not be designated as I-73? Then just duel I-73 and I-75 to Toledo and then run 127 as I-73 on up into Michigan and onto upgraded old US 27?


----------



## Paddington

AUchamps said:


> Here's the thing I don't get.
> 
> Why can't US 35 in Ohio(which is all freeway from I-75 to WV) not be designated as I-73? Then just duel I-73 and I-75 to Toledo and then run 127 as I-73 on up into Michigan and onto upgraded old US 27?


That would serve no purpose, other than to say, "hey look, this road is two expressways instead of one!"

When I-73 was being considered in Ohio in the early 1990's, it would have been an expressway link between Toledo and Columbus (a very painful, congested corridor which I travel far too often hno, continuing to the Southeast. It would have replaced U.S. 23. But due to budget constraints and NIMBY's it was never built and the state has cancelled all plans.

Today, segments of U.S. 23 are so urbanized (especially in Delaware County which exploded in population) it's going to be 10 times as difficult and expensive to build out this route.


----------



## AUchamps

Paddington said:


> That would serve no purpose, other than to say, "hey look, this road is two expressways instead of one!"
> 
> When I-73 was being considered in Ohio in the early 1990's, it would have been an expressway link between Toledo and Columbus (a very painful, congested corridor which I travel far too often hno, continuing to the Southeast. It would have replaced U.S. 23. But due to budget constraints and NIMBY's it was never built and the state has cancelled all plans.
> 
> Today, segments of U.S. 23 are so urbanized (especially in Delaware County which exploded in population) it's going to be 10 times as difficult and expensive to build out this route.


Which is why I-73 needs to go the way of I-80/90 from Chicago to Cleveland, only on I-75 and from Toledo to Dayton. Then go on US 35 and take that all the way to WV.

No it doesn't solve US 23's issues but it's the next best thing toward a complete I-73 from Michigan to South Carolina. (and it avoids Columbus with additional truck traffic).

Another option if you don't want I-73/75 from Toledo to Dayton is I-73/75 from Toledo to Wapakoneta, then freeway US 33 from Bellefontaine westward till Wapakoneta.

From there, take 270 from 33 at Dublin on down to 23 South as I-73 and then US 23 south freeway'd(since South of Columbus is not built up at all).


----------



## Paddington

I don't see the point in I-73 going through Ohio unless it involves new expressway construction. Ohio isn't some ******* state desperate for a new expressway at all costs that it would take one added on in name only to one of the already existing ones.


----------



## AUchamps

Paddington said:


> I don't see the point in I-73 going through Ohio unless it involves new expressway construction. Ohio isn't some ******* state desperate for a new expressway at all costs that it would take one added on in name only to one of the already existing ones.


Cough*I-80/90*cough Cough*I-39/90/94*cough

Besides, US 35 is a relatively new freeway anyway.


----------



## FM 2258

wyqtor said:


> _Radi mode_
> The pavement is really crappy! I'm surprised, this is THE road on the West Coast, something like this would be inconceivable in the EU.
> _End Radi mode_



:lol: 





radi6404 said:


> FM 2258, the interstate on your pics looks really bad, such a motorway wouldn´t be allowed anywhere in europe, the concrete must be really awful to drive on, I am happy we have very smooth asphalt here on the nationalroads, what bothers me msot is that on one of your pics there are aktually potholes on the asphalt which is very bad for a motorway.


I would think with a 41,000+ mile freeway system, there are bound to be a couple potholes somewhere in the system.


----------



## ADCS

FM 2258 said:


> :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would think with a 41,000+ mile freeway system, there are bound to be a couple potholes somewhere in the system.


[radi] yes but the united states is supposed to be rich yet still has such shitty motorways. the struma and the trakiya are much smoother and shinier than these pictures and that's without the money that the EU is supposed to give us, those idoits. look at this: (some picture of substandard freeway from a bulgarian bus) and tell me that it wouldnt be the best in the US if built there[/radi]


----------



## Nephasto

:rofl:


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

ADCS, nah, it's too intelligent. No one would believe it's Radi.


----------



## ADCS

Sorry, couldn't bring myself to misspell more than one word


----------



## mgk920

*New section of interstate opens this week, likely Wednesday or Thursday, 2007-12-12 or 13*

After several years of delay due to unforeseen acid rock (iron pyrite) formations that were found during construction, I-99 between Bald Eagle Village and State College, PA will open sometime this week, date/time dependent on weather.

http://www.centredaily.com/news/local/story/283119.html

:dance:

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-99 is a weird number there... I-95 and I-97 are more to the east, doesn't fit quite within the system...


----------



## mgk920

Chriszwolle said:


> I-99 is a weird number there... I-95 and I-97 are more to the east, doesn't fit quite within the system...


Yea, that number was written into federal law by a local USHouse representative when he inserted the project into a Federal highway funding bill back in the late 1980s or early 1990s.

:nuts:

Also, some more info on this project:

http://www.centredaily.com/news/local/story/286478.html

Mike


----------



## mgk920

*New section of interstate to open Tuesday, 2007-12-18*

A 5 km section of (future) I-73/840 on the west side of Greensboro, NC opens on Tuesday, 2007-12-18.

http://www.digtriad.com/news/local_state/article.aspx?storyid=94695&catid=57

Also check out the KEWL video of a drive on this new section of interstate in the above link.

:dance:

Mike


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Wow, NC motorways have European-like entrance and exit lane marking


----------



## Paddington

New video from the same guy, with Christmas cheer:


----------



## AUchamps

*Canada/USA: If I had $40 Billion to put toward new freeways...*

-I'd want to see I-69 fully completed from Indy to Brownsville
-I-49 from Kansas City to Shreveport
-I-73 in its entirety(even if that means saving costs in Ohio by making US 35 into I-73 and dueling up I-75/73 from Toledo to Dayton, much in the way I-39/90/94 is in Wisconsin)
-I-74 from Cincinnati eastward to West Virginia and then southward to SC

and in Canada...

-Highway 400 in Ontario all the way north to Sudbury.
-Highway 417 all the way west from Ottawa to the Manitoba border.
-A-73 all the way south to Maine
-A-30 in its entirety
-A-85 in its entirety
-A-5 from Gatineau east to A-15(and complete that too).

That's just me.

You guys?


----------



## andypandy

Freeways are a thing of the past. Invest your $40 bill in some public transport/rail... real infrastrcuture.


----------



## AUchamps

andypandy said:


> Freeways are a thing of the past. Invest your $40 bill in some public transport/rail... real infrastrcuture.


Trucks will always be the lifeline of trade.

Public Transport doesn't do jack for Trucks. Rail is doing all it can with freight. This has a lot more to do with Trucks then anything else. We will always need freeways for semis. Distribution Centers locate by freeways. Look at China and their extensive buildout of freeways(which incidentally in Eastern China, are never "free" and several roads are actually listed on the Hong Kong Exchange to be bought and sold as a commodity or bond). It's all about the Trucks.


----------



## 1ajs

how about a highspeed rail coast to coast in canada...


----------



## mgk920

-Two new 6 or 8 lane Saint Claire River crossings in the Detroit-Windsor area along with needed new connecting freeways on each side (all entries that I make here assume a Canada-USA customs union allowing the border checkpoints to be removed);

-A new Niagara River crossing between I-290 and the QEW on the north edge of Buffalo, NY/Fort Erie, ON;

-Interstate compatible highway upgrades between Vancouver, BC and Calgary and Edmonton, AB, along with better connections between that and I-5;

-A new-ROW I-25 extension from I-90 near Sheridan, WY via the Tongue River to I-94 in the Miles City, MT area, then continuing northward from I-94 roughly along MT 16 from Glendive, MT to continue along SK 6 to Regina, SK;

-Interstate compatible highway upgrades along US 2 and US 41 between I-75 at Saint Ignace, MI and Green Bay, WI. Also a direct freeway connection between the International Bridge at SSM and a new major highway running eastward from SSM towards Sudbury, ON (twin the bridge?);

-Extend I-35 from Duluth, MN to Thunder Bay, ON.

That should just aboot eat up $40G.

:yes:

Mike


----------



## AUchamps

1ajs said:


> how about a highspeed rail coast to coast in canada...


Still won't solve the Trucking situation. I'm thinking for your area, get Highway 1 east from Winnipeg widened to 4 lanes to the Ontario Border, and then have either Highway 11 or 17 widened to 4 Lanes to Thunder Bay(and 4 Lane Highway 61 all the way south to Duluth, MN as a collaboration between MTO and MNDOT to be both I-35 and a new 400-series Highway) and then Highway 17 widened to 4 Lanes to Sault Ste. Marie(where it can tie into I-75).

It's ALL about truck traffic and vastly improving logistics for your nation. As we all know, Canada has a ways to go before having as tightly integrated logistics like the USA and EU have.


----------



## mgk920

*New section of interstate opened today (2007-12-18)*

A new 3 km section of I-64 (upgraded from the prior US 40) opened on Tuesday, 2007-12-18 in suburban Saint Louis, MO.

http://www.modot.org/stlouis/news_and_information/District6News.shtml?action=displaySSI&newsId=14559

:dance:

Mike


----------



## FM 2258

^^

It seems like there quite a few new stretches of Interstate opening up this year. This is good.


----------



## FM 2258

Here are some pictures of northbound Interstate 710 heading from Interstate 405 to the Alondra Blvd/Compton Exit in the Los Angeles area. It's no Struma Motorway or highway with fantastic views but still a very vital part of our wonderful Interstate highway system:

All taken in the afternoon of November 16, 2007:


----------



## tablemtn

As mentioned above, the southern branch of the Trans-Canada highway (Hwy. 1/5/97 in BC) should be brought up to freeway standards from Calgary to Kamloops, as well as from Kamloops back to Chiliwack. This isn't just due to traffic - in the highway's current configuration, it is unsafe. There are a lot of fatal wrecks in the mountains between Alberta and BC. Also, Canada's main port to the orient is the port of Vancouver, and it would be good to widen the Trans-Can out of Vancouver to Calgary for cargo shipping alone. 

This isn't exclusive of rail lines; rail lines could be overhauled or installed at the same time the highway is rebuilt. 

This would be expensive in the short-term, certainly. But it is the type of investment in infrastructure that makes the whole economy richer.


----------



## TheCat

AUchamps said:


> ...
> -Highway 400 in Ontario all the way north to Sudbury.
> ...


As far as I know, this is being done in various stages as we speak, many parts scheduled to be completed circa 2009-2010.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's a nice video. Also the 6 lane change!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Wow the pavement looks extremely old, and so are the signs. But i guess repaving it (in this case, i think it needs whole new concrete slabs), causes chaos in the low density of freeways there is in Los Angeles.

(otherwise of what people think, Los Angeles doesn't have a very large freeway system, when counted to population, remember there live 18 million people there).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

andypandy said:


> Freeways are a thing of the past. Invest your $40 bill in some public transport/rail... real infrastrcuture.



Oh yeah? Since when is public transportation more efficient than cars?


----------



## mgk920

Chriszwolle said:


> Wow the pavement looks extremely old, and so are the signs. But i guess repaving it (in this case, i think it needs whole new concrete slabs), causes chaos in the low density of freeways there is in Los Angeles.
> 
> (otherwise of what people think, Los Angeles doesn't have a very large freeway system, when counted to population, remember there live 18 million people there).


It may be old pavement, but without the freeze-thaw-freeze-thaw-freeze-thaw-etc thing in the Los Angeles area that much of the rest of the USA, Canada and Europe faces, it will have a much longer life, even with choking levels of traffic.

It may look old and tired, but if it gives a smooth ride, why replace it?

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah i think so. And unlike Europe, i think the far majority of the traffic knows what to expect because they drive there everyday. In Europe there are far more foreign trucks and not-local traffic on the roads.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

mgk920 said:


> It may look old and tired, but if it gives a smooth ride, why replace it?


Southern California motorways and expressways will often give you a very bumpy ride hno: It's not that it would damage your suspension, but they are definitely not Struma, not even close


----------



## phattonez

The 710 (Long Beach Freeway) gets a ton of truck traffic because it goes directly to the combined ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach. There was a plan for truck lanes and carpool lanes (and some of the freeway was repaved a few years back) and most of it would go on the ROW that parallels the freeway, but I haven't heard about it for a long time, but the concrete barriers on the freeway makes me think that maybe they're going to start working on it soon?


----------



## pwalker

*Western U.S.*

I would focus on some of the most congested areas, one being the Seattle region. It is controversial, but I believe an eastside North-South bypass should be built east of I-405, taking a lot of truck traffic off of I-5 and I-405. Unfortunately, the residents of this area for the most part are dead set against it and it probably will never happen. 

Staying out west, an alternate route (mainly for commercial traffic) should be built from Northern California up along the east side of the Cascades as far north as I-90 or beyond is another unlikely scenerio. I-5 is overburdened from Northern California to the Canadian border, and is the ONLY N-S freeway west of Idaho/Utah.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

^^ I would understand why the residents of the area east of I-405 are much against this bypass. 

As for the Nor-Cal to Canada alternative route, I have a hard time imagining where it could be built due to the geography of the region. I do, however, believe that there should be a direct link between Trans-Canada and I-5.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

How about this extremely nice asphalt, i bet it could be better than the Struma.



















Phoenix, AZ.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think the US road system is quite completed for now. Some US-routes which have lots of expressway-grade sections could be upgraded to full freeway standards, but i think i would much of that 40 billion dollars to dig freeways in in urban area's. It makes people more appreciate freeways.


----------



## AUchamps

Chriszwolle said:


> I think the US road system is quite completed for now. Some US-routes which have lots of expressway-grade sections could be upgraded to full freeway standards, but i think i would much of that 40 billion dollars to dig freeways in in urban area's. It makes people more appreciate freeways.


Won't help with truck traffic. It's not efficient for trucks to travel though tunnels for long distances(say, 2-3 miles or longer). Why else do you think truck traffic is so heavily restricted through tunnels worldwide?


----------



## AUchamps

They took old tires and recycled it in with asphalt to make it super smooth and quiet to drive.


----------



## phattonez

They put the asphalt on that overpass? Either it's really lightweight asphalt or that's one strong bridge.


----------



## phattonez

I don't understand why there is all this talk about building more freeways because of semis. Freight is more efficient on rail. Semis are gas guzzling behemoths that tear up the road. We should keep freight on rail as much as is possible. Any $40 billion that the US gets should be spent on upgrading rail. The current budget for freeways is sufficient.


----------



## AUchamps

phattonez said:


> I don't understand why there is all this talk about building more freeways because of semis. Freight is more efficient on rail. Semis are gas guzzling behemoths that tear up the road. We should keep freight on rail as much as is possible. Any $40 billion that the US gets should be spent on upgrading rail. The current budget for freeways is sufficient.


Rails alone are impractical for the "Just in Time" Logistical world we live in today.

Intermodal Centers serve to move cargo between Sea Port, Airport, Rail, and/or Semi.

We need all 4 in order to be optimal in logistics.


----------



## phattonez

Oh no, I'm not saying rail exclusively, but we don't need any major upgrades to our freeway system until our rail system is upgraded.


----------



## seicer

*Kentucky Transportation News (US)*

Thought it would be nice to have a dedicated thread regarding Kentucky's (highway) transportation infrastructure. I've posted news clippings for years at several newsgroups and Yahoo! groups as well.

--

Personal notes:
The eastern bypass is a four-lane divided highway with access points at major intersections and approximately every 2,000 feet to serve farms and local businesses -- although this has been abused in other cities to serve the whims of sprawling development that reduces the LOS and functionality of the bypass.

The southern end of the bypass ends at a T-intersection with existing four-lane US 127 and the ramp from US 127 northbound to US 127 Bypass northbound is a sharp 25 MPH ramp -- essentially a right-turn. At the very least, this needs to be corrected with a banked high-speed ramp. Existing intersections with major roads should also be considered for potential interchanges as well.

100 turn out to hear about Harrodsburg bypass
_By Ann R. Harney, Advocate-Messenger, November 20, 2007_

HARRODSBURG - More than 100 Mercer Countians took the opportunity Monday to learn and comment about a possible bypass around the northwest side of Harrodsburg.

Possible may be the operative word. One of the questions people were asked on a comment form was whether a bypass is needed.

A slide show presentation ran constantly through the session from 4-7 p.m. at Lions Community Center.

Large maps were available for study. Smaller versions of the same map were given to people when they signed in, and they could be marked by people who wanted to show where they thought the roadway should go.

The proposal is to put the road from the Industrial Spur of the current bypass around to Mackville Road, but no actual route has been drawn or even considered. A map showing a corridor of 1,000 to 2,000 feet wide has been circulated.

On hand at the meeting were representatives of the District 7 office, including Stuart Goodpaster, branch manager for planning, who said he was surprised at the large number of people who attended.

Mercer County Judge-Executive John Trisler said he was not surprised at the turnout, but he was pleased.

Also on hand were representatives of Bluegrass Area Development District and QK4, an engineering firm from Louisville that the state has hired as consulting engineers on the project.

A bypass is being considered because of traffic congestion on the northwest side of the city. The Mercer County School District is the source of some of the congestion, and some thought has been given to making Moberly Road four lanes from the Industrial Spur to a trailer park on the road. Moberly Road is a key north-south corridor for reaching the various Mercer County schools.

Mercer Superintendent Bruce Johnson said that would be his preference and the school board would donate the land. It owns most of the land on both sides of the road.

A new Mercer County Senior High School is being built, and the added traffic from that building is likely to be on Moberly Road.

State needs your input

Whatever the opinions of the public, the state highway department will depend heavily on them. In addition to filling out forms, the public may call the District 7 office in Lexington and send letters within 15 days of Monday's meeting.

Letters can be sent to P.O. Box 11127, Lexington, Ky., 40512, attention Jim Rummage. There also was a court reporter at the gathering to take down verbal comments.

"People think we've picked a route," said David Thacker of District 7's public information office. "We haven't."

Engineers will look at each of the comments to get a feeling of what the people want and develop alternate routes on a map.

State officials will return to Harrodsburg in six months to a year, Thacker said, to make a final determination of what the people want. Then, if a bypass is wanted, officials will approach the General Assembly for money, probably during the 2010 or 2012 sessions.

State Rep. Milward Dedman, D-Harrodsburg, said the meeting was part of the very earliest of steps toward a possible road.

Mercer County Magistrate Ronnie Sims is most concerned about the safety of a possible roadway. The south entrance and one intersection on the current bypass have been the site of several serious traffic accidents. Several tractor-trailer trucks have overturned on the south entrance, and federal funds have been allocated for remediation of those sites. However the work has not been done.

"I don't want the problems we have with the east bypass," Sims said. "It was not properly designed, and it's a mess."


----------



## LordMandeep

you still we need trucks to ship the stuff from train terminals to places...

Also there are not only a few dozen places where trucks deliver, there are tens of thousands in any big city. To serve each place by rail is impractical.


Anyways i say making the 401 6-8 lanes thrugh ontario.

Extend the collector-express system to Mississauga and Oshawa.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Rail freight is only efficient in very large numbers, like 500 tonnes of grain or dangerous goods. 

Most cargo transports aren't that big. Also containers needs to be shipped, not only from A to B, but from A to B - Z. You can't do that efficient with rail. Most of those trains are probably not running on electricity, so it's also not so much better for the environment.


----------



## DanielFigFoz

fm2258- Did you go to Compton?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah i remember him asking that in a Los Angeles subforum.


----------



## FM 2258

DFM said:


> fm2258- Did you go to Compton?


I did, let me update pictures in the subforum. I'll put a link to that here when I'm done.


----------



## hoosier

Chriszwolle said:


> Oh yeah? Since when is public transportation more efficient than cars?


When it is as available as the car. Look at London, New York, Paris, Tokyo- hell, any major city, and public transportation is far more efficient.

And public transportation doesn't POLLUTE or contribute to global warming.


----------



## hoosier

I would invest very little in new road construction. The US Interstate system is quite extensive.

As for trucks, in certain high volume areas dedicated truck lanes could be built.

Most of the money should go to road upgrades and repairs.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

hoosier said:


> When it is as available as the car. Look at London, New York, Paris, Tokyo- hell, any major city, and public transportation is far more efficient.


Yeah, but that's not affordable for any mid-size to large city, only for really large cities like the ones you mentioned. And even those cities like New York and Paris still have huge amounts of cars on their roads. It is an utopia to think public transportation can even meet the majority of transport demands, especially in the non-multi-million-cities. 



> And public transportation doesn't POLLUTE or contribute to global warming.


Since when do trains and buses run on wind? The most polluted streets in the Netherlands are the ones near busterminals. So public transportation may be more environment-friendly than the average american car, they are by far not climate-neutral.

I do agree on your second post though.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

AUchamps said:


> Won't help with truck traffic. It's not efficient for trucks to travel though tunnels for long distances(say, 2-3 miles or longer). Why else do you think truck traffic is so heavily restricted through tunnels worldwide?


I wouldn't be necessarily real tunnels, i was thinking about half sunken freeways in the ground. The noise is really reduced that way, without having to pollute the horizon with sound barriers. Near really nice locations, you can build a real tunnel, like they did on motorways in Barcelona for instance.


----------



## mgk920

AUchamps said:


> Won't help with truck traffic. It's not efficient for trucks to travel though tunnels for long distances(say, 2-3 miles or longer). Why else do you think truck traffic is so heavily restricted through tunnels worldwide?


Most tunnels that I know of allow big-rigs, but prohibit haz-mats. Haz-mat accidents are not pleasant in tunnels.

Mike


----------



## phattonez

Again, I'm not saying RAIL ONLY, we just need to upgrade it because in many locations it is not a viable alternative to freeways. For example, the path to Las Vegas from Los Angeles is extremely congested and nothing more can be put on there, so trucks have to go on the 15, making traffic on that freeway even worse than it already is.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

In my opinion, long distance rail is rather an alternative to flying than to car-trips. 



> Most tunnels that I know of allow big-rigs, but prohibit haz-mats. Haz-mat accidents are not pleasant in tunnels.
> 
> Mike


Hmm i remember the movie Daylight  (with Silvester Stallone).


----------



## phattonez

Las Vegas is not too far a distance from Los Angeles, so many people just drive there. The traffic along the freeway is terrible. My argument is that a lot of that is caused by trucks because the freight route is saturated. We need to upgrade that and put a passenger rail line between Las Vegas and Los Angeles.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

phattonez said:


> Las Vegas is not too far a distance from Los Angeles, so many people just drive there. The traffic along the freeway is terrible.


Really? CA DOT gives only 35.000 - 40.000 AADT for the section Barstow - Nevada (this is what i think you can call through traffic between LA and LV)

40.000 is nothing, even on 2x2 lanes. 

It might be a lot more busy ofcourse on holidays, but when you only travel a certain road on holidays, it doesn't give a good view of what the traffic is on average.


----------



## Paddington

I-5 between San Fransisco and LA is totally empty, at least when I drove that route 7 years ago with family.


----------



## monkeyronin

Chriszwolle said:


> Oh yeah? Since when is public transportation more efficient than cars?


Um...since forever. Transit has the capability to move many more people per hour than do cars & freeways. Take the 401 in Toronto for example. This is one of the busiest freeways in the world, yet still moves only 500,000 cars per day (and this is with huge traffic jams). Just the YUS subway, which is of a shorter length and doesn't run 24 hours carries more than that.




Chriszwolle said:


> Yeah, but that's not affordable for any mid-size to large city, only for really large cities like the ones you mentioned.


What do we define as mid-sized to large? I'd say around 1-5,000,000 inhabitants or so? If so, just look no further than cities like Stockholm, Munich, Busan, Berlin, Copenhagen, Montreal, etc. All with extensive and well-used metros.

As long as the city is dense enough with a well designed transit system, it can move most people regardless of population. 




Chriszwolle said:


> And even those cities like New York and Paris still have huge amounts of cars on their roads. It is an utopia to think public transportation can even meet the majority of transport demands, especially in the non-multi-million-cities.


Well of course they are going to have lots of cars on the road. But the fact remains the majority of people in these cities use transit. You simply could not fit an extra 5 million cars in city like New York (going back to my point on efficiency - is it impossible to move such massive numbers of cars, while transit is fully capable).


----------



## Ashok

A Super his speed train lines across north America


----------



## mikey001

I've always liked that the LA/Orange County freeways don't try to apologize for being freeways. With the towering interchanges and large number of lanes, they don't try to hide what they are all about - driving. You won't find any 'parkways' with only 2 lanes in each direction and extremely wide grassy medians. These roads in LA are *freeways* and are proud of it. Does that make sense?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

monkeyronin said:


> Um...since forever. Transit has the capability to move many more people per hour than do cars & freeways. Take the 401 in Toronto for example. This is one of the busiest freeways in the world, yet still moves only 500,000 cars per day (and this is with huge traffic jams). Just the YUS subway, which is of a shorter length and doesn't run 24 hours carries more than that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do we define as mid-sized to large? I'd say around 1-5,000,000 inhabitants or so? If so, just look no further than cities like Stockholm, Munich, Busan, Berlin, Copenhagen, Montreal, etc. All with extensive and well-used metros.
> 
> As long as the city is dense enough with a well designed transit system, it can move most people regardless of population.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well of course they are going to have lots of cars on the road. But the fact remains the majority of people in these cities use transit. You simply could not fit an extra 5 million cars in city like New York (going back to my point on efficiency - is it impossible to move such massive numbers of cars, while transit is fully capable).


Again, a lot of countries have only a few very large cities. That is when public transportation can be efficient, but not so much for any 100.000 - 500.000 cities and their commuter area's. And efficiency is not always about capacity, but what about driving time? The car is often faster even with traffic jams. Public transportation do not start at your door, and doesn't bring you to your work exactly, you often need extra transportation, which adds up to the time. 

I do agree PT is efficient in multi-million agglomerations, but the number of such large cities is only small compared to the numerous 75.000 - 500.000 population centers. You don't build a metro-network in a city with 150.000 inhabitants, that's not affordable for these cities. Even if you build one line, it is only efficient to a part of the city, since you can't serve an entire population with one line. 

So my point is, except in the very large cities (million or more), public transportation can never outrun a car on typical suburb-to-job drives. 
PT is fast from city center to city center, but the demand for such links is lower than the massive urban-job commute. 

A fast rail-link in the United States is more an alternative to flying, and maybe some long car-trips, but not for the average commute. Therefore, there shouldn't be a comparison between freeways and highspeed rail, but between airplanes and highspeed rail.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

^^ Not really


----------



## Chicagoago

A couple from around Chicago.....


----------



## AUchamps

monkeyronin said:


> Um...since forever. Transit has the capability to move many more people per hour than do cars & freeways. Take the 401 in Toronto for example. This is one of the busiest freeways in the world, yet still moves only 500,000 cars per day (and this is with huge traffic jams). Just the YUS subway, which is of a shorter length and doesn't run 24 hours carries more than that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do we define as mid-sized to large? I'd say around 1-5,000,000 inhabitants or so? If so, just look no further than cities like Stockholm, Munich, Busan, Berlin, Copenhagen, Montreal, etc. All with extensive and well-used metros.
> 
> As long as the city is dense enough with a well designed transit system, it can move most people regardless of population.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well of course they are going to have lots of cars on the road. But the fact remains the majority of people in these cities use transit. You simply could not fit an extra 5 million cars in city like New York (going back to my point on efficiency - is it impossible to move such massive numbers of cars, while transit is fully capable).


Too bad none of that will solve logistics relating to "just in time" transport. Semis will always be needed and vital to our continents. You can't expect to build a Distribution Center and only have it by a railline, or only by a port. You need a distribution center that's every bit as massive as what Target, Wal-Mart, or the US Military has at certain Army, Naval, and Air Force Bases.

Public Transit does nothing to solve the issue with goods, transport, and highly efficient "just in time" logistics. In a perfect world, all goods would be RFID tracked and transported in the absolute most direct manner. It just seems like so many on here don't want to see the importance of land based goods transport via 18 wheelers.


----------



## monkeyronin

Chriszwolle said:


> Again, a lot of countries have only a few very large cities. That is when public transportation can be efficient, but not so much for any 100.000 - 500.000 cities and their commuter area's.


As I said earlier, as long as a city is sufficiently dense and of a certain size with a well planned and organized transit network, that network will be able to sustain itself. Or, not be cost prohibitive for small municipalities, in other words. 




Chriszwolle said:


> And efficiency is not always about capacity, but what about driving time? The car is often faster even with traffic jams.


I'd say there are 4 parts to efficiency in this context - capacity, time, energy use, and cost.

Capacity: I think its been established that PT can always carry a far greater number of people than can cars.

Time: In congested larger, denser cities, transit will be faster, but of course, in smaller, sprawlier centres the car will likely take less time. 

Energy: As long as there is a sufficient use of the system, it will use less energy per person that cars. 

Cost: In many cases, transit systems are able to create a profit. Freeways are generally free to use and thus are wholly supported by tax payers. And of course, driving is much more expensive for the individual with gas costs, insurance, repairs, and the car itself.




Chriszwolle said:


> A fast rail-link in the United States is more an alternative to flying, and maybe some long car-trips, but not for the average commute. Therefore, there shouldn't be a comparison between freeways and highspeed rail, but between airplanes and highspeed rail.


Can't say I recall even mentioning HSR, let alone it competing directly with the automobile. 




AUchamps said:


> Too bad none of that will solve logistics relating to "just in time" transport. Semis will always be needed and vital to our continents.


Well, yeah, uh, I wasn't exactally recommending that we ship our goods via subways. :lol:


----------



## phattonez

Chriszwolle said:


> Really? CA DOT gives only 35.000 - 40.000 AADT for the section Barstow - Nevada (this is what i think you can call through traffic between LA and LV)
> 
> 40.000 is nothing, even on 2x2 lanes.
> 
> It might be a lot more busy ofcourse on holidays, but when you only travel a certain road on holidays, it doesn't give a good view of what the traffic is on average.


You should try driving that Friday nights and Sundays. It is terrible. A HSR line there would be a great investment, and it is being studied between Vegas and Anaheim. 



Paddington said:


> I-5 between San Fransisco and LA is totally empty, at least when I drove that route 7 years ago with family.


Well it's not that way today.


----------



## Jeroen669

monkeyronin said:


> As I said earlier, as long as a city is sufficiently dense and of a certain size with a well planned and organized transit network, that network will be able to sustain itself. Or, not be cost prohibitive for small municipalities, in other words.


But that's just the point: efficient PT demands a higher density. In that way, even a city with a few million people could be bad connected with PT, if it has a very low density. But does that really matter, if people are happy and commuters have acceptable travel times? Someone mentioned some european cities. The reason why those are relative well connected with PT is that, especiallly city centers, are very old, which represent in a high density. Keeping it accesible for cars is hard, but not impossible.

You build a city on the way people want to live, not on the way they want to be transported there. That's just accessory.



monkeyronin said:


> I'd say there are 4 parts to efficiency in this context - capacity, time, energy use, and cost.


For the daily commuter only the costs and (especially) time really matter.



monkeyronin said:


> Capacity: I think its been established that PT can always carry a far greater number of people than can cars.


A freeway can carry the same amount of people as a railway, if it's wide enough. What you mean is you problably need less space to carry the same amount of people. But even that is certainly not always true. Not every PT-line carries every 2 minutes some hundreds of people underneath a city centre. PT is always concentrating to places, so that means the majority of the line is underused. Besides from that, you need a lot of space to provide stations and railways to 'park' trains, on which you can't carry pessengers. So the space-effenciency of PT is questionable...



monkeyronin said:


> Time: In congested larger, denser cities, transit will be faster, but of course, in smaller, sprawlier centres the car will likely take less time.


In a way, that sounds like a demand that traffic should be stuck to make PT efficient. You're ignoring the consequences of the congestion problem. You'll never get problems solved with that attitude.



monkeyronin said:


> Energy: As long as there is a sufficient use of the system, it will use less energy per person that cars.


Trains also need a lot of electricity, or even diesel, as well as buses. I'm sure PT will use less energy per person, but does that really improve things? For the commuter it is, except for some extreme environmentalistics, not an important issue. Besides from that: some countries (especially in europe) are very dependant from car drivers, because a big part of the state's income comes from them...



monkeyronin said:


> Cost: In many cases, transit systems are able to create a profit. Freeways are generally free to use and thus are wholly supported by tax payers. And of course, driving is much more expensive for the individual with gas costs, insurance, repairs, and the car itself.


And PT lines are not supported by tax payers, you'd say? Driving may be more expensive, but if the driver gets back a (much) shorter travel time, it compensates for most of the people more than enough.

Don't get me wrong. Imo there still should be invested in PT. Only not for solving congestion problems, but for solving problems in PT itself.


----------



## monkeyronin

Jeroen669 said:


> For the daily commuter only the costs and (especially) time really matter.


And so the average commuter should not at all care about the environment? And regarding capacity, they wouldn't care about overly-congested roads or packed trains?




> A freeway can carry the same amount of people as a railway, if it's wide enough. What you mean is you problably need less space to carry the same amount of people. But even that is certainly not always true.


Correct, you do need less space. Much, much less space, mind you. As I mentioned earlier, the 401 freeway in Toronto is one of the world's busiest with 500,000 cars being carried every day. For most of its width, however, it is 18 lanes (huge). 

Compare this to the JR Yamanote line in Tokyo, which carries 3,550,000 people/day. For the 401 to carry this many people, it would need over 120 lanes.

The Yamanote is mostly at grade so it does take up some space (no more than a minor road though), but theoretically, it could be entirely underground and take up no space at all. For a 120 lane motorway to be underground however, would be quite the feat. 




> Besides from that, you need a lot of space to provide stations and railways to 'park' trains, on which you can't carry pessengers. So the space-effenciency of PT is questionable...


The space used on elevated stations & track, station entrances, and rail yards is minuscule compared to that used just by freeways, not to mention every other road, off/on ramp, and parking lot.

Going back to Toronto, let's just compare the TTC's main train yard vs. a stretch of the 401.



















Now, just multiply the latter by 40km (or more).




> For the commuter it is, except for some extreme environmentalistics, not an important issue.


hmm, no. These days, more than just "extreme environmentalists" actually give half a shit about the earth.




> And PT lines are not supported by tax payers, you'd say? Driving may be more expensive, but if the driver gets back a (much) shorter travel time, it compensates for most of the people more than enough.


Transit lines are supported by tax payers, yes, but unlike freeways and roads, they typically pay for themselves through fares after a few years. 




> Don't get me wrong. Imo there still should be invested in PT. Only not for solving congestion problems, but for solving problems in PT itself.


Right, and plenty of "investment" into roads for more cars, correct?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You should stop comparing cities with efficient public transportation (like Tokyo) to freeways. Those few cities were public transportation is actually a better alternative to cars (i would take the subway in New York or Madrid too), are no comparison to the thousands of 100.000 - 700.000 cities or low density urban area's (like the Randstad, Atlanta etc) where the car is much more efficient than public transportation.

However this discussion looks like to end up as a classic public transportation versus freeways one, forgetting that it are often different transportation demands/motives, and agglomeration circumstances (demographics, density, economy) can differ very much. 

I personally love the way they do it in Spain, money don't seems to be an issue, and both public transportation and freeways are excellent. In other western European countries (like mine) the transportation budget is just laughable, and barely enough to maintain the network, let alone expanding/improving it.


----------



## AUchamps

Naturally the Semitruck gets lost in the discussion even though WE WILL ALWAYS NEED FREEWAYS FOR OUR GROWING SEMITRUCK POPULATION.

LOGISTICS. No amount of public transit will reduce the growth of semis on the road.


----------



## phattonez

People still bring up the semi argument and its over. No one is arguing for rail exclusively.


----------



## AUchamps

It doesn't matter how many cars you take off the road, the number of semis to offset that will grow. The net effect is zero.

Remember that.


----------



## FM 2258

^^

Isn't that last picture Interstate 190? I think it's only destination is the airport and Interstate 90.


----------



## phattonez

Can you provide proof to support that?


----------



## TheCat

FM 2258 said:


> ^^
> 
> Isn't that last picture Interstate 190? I think it's only destination is the airport and Interstate 90.


You also forgot the Canadian border  It connects directly to Highway 405 in Ontario. I remember driving on it on my trip to NYC this summer, I posted some pictures long ago.


----------



## AUchamps

TheCat said:


> You also forgot the Canadian border  It connects directly to Highway 405 in Ontario. I remember driving on it on my trip to NYC this summer, I posted some pictures long ago.


That's actually Highway 420 aka Pot Freeway.

EDIT: Those were pics from I-190 in Chicago. You guys are thinking of I-190 in Buffalo-Niagara.


----------



## TheCat

^^ Oh, right, I didn't know there were multiple Interstates with the same number.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don´t know about US numbers, but Dutch planning agency predicts truck traffic will grow with 80% in the next 15 years. 

If we do nothing, some motorways will be a parking lot for trucks within 10 years. These motorways already faces 20 - 25% truck traffic, which takes up 50% of the capacity. If that grows with 80%, all capacity will be taken by trucks with 2x2 lanes, but most of those motorways have an overtaking prohibition, so all those trucks will never fit on one lane. 

Our economy relies heavily on transportation, since we have 4 mainports nearby, the ports of Rotterdam, Antwerpen and Amsterdam, and Schiphol airport. 

The Antwerp Deurganckdocks will be so busy, that every 3 seconds, a truck leaves. That means every 1,5 second a truck is underway from and to these docks. The majority of these trucks have to travel through the Netherlands at some point during the journey. 

Some motorways already faces a wall of trucks, making it nearly impossible to exit or enter the motorway. This problem is not to be underestimated.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This is the entrance to the A67 motorway in Eindhoven. 



























Trucks everywhere you can look.

This problem also occurs in Germany, where during sundays, all rest area's are overcrowded.









Nothing but trucks in Belgium.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

TheCat said:


> ^^ Oh, right, I didn't know there were multiple Interstates with the same number.


There are actually quite a lot, though 3-digit numbers only.


----------



## LtBk

I wonder what excuses Dutch environmentalists and NIMBYs are going to make for blocking motorway upgrades after all their major motorways are gridlocked?


----------



## FM 2258

Chriszwolle said:


> There are actually quite a lot, though 3-digit numbers only.


I think the only exceptions to that are Interstates 84, 86, and 88 which are split in the middle of the country.


----------



## sonysnob

Ontario's media often dubs the 401 a factory on wheels because of the trucks


----------



## mgk920

FM 2258 said:


> I think the only exceptions to that are Interstates 84, 86, and 88 which are split in the middle of the country.


There are two I-74s and two I-76s, too.

Mike


----------



## TheCat

^^ Why? Sounds pretty confusing.


----------



## ttownfeen

It's really not. The interstates are in different parts of the country so they don't cross each other. It's almost like they are absorbed by other interstates in the middle of the country.


----------



## FM 2258

mgk920 said:


> There are two I-74s and two I-76s, too.
> 
> Mike


Haha...I forgot about those two. 




TheCat said:


> ^^ Why? Sounds pretty confusing.


The people that use Interstate 76 in the western part of the country probably don't know about the 76 in the eastern part of the country. They're so far apart I guess instead of using up a new number they decided to use the same number. It's not like you're on Interstate 84 in Idaho and trying to find it again in Connecticut, you're just on your local 84.



Edit:



ttownfeen said:


> It's really not. The interstates are in different parts of the country so they don't cross each other. It's almost like they are absorbed by other interstates in the middle of the country.




Exactly.


----------



## FM 2258

*Interstate 10, western Louisiana*

I took these pictures from December 24, 2006 in Western Louisiana and wanted to share. I love our Interstate system but even though it isn't perfect, it does a very good job. Starting from around mile 130 to the Texas Border. It was very rainy to start off but luckily it cleared up:






























Here I exited to look at some swamps. I like how in the United States the state highway sheilds slightly differ from the ones on the Exit sign:


















Back on West Interstate 10 swamp causeway. Not a bad ride but obviously you get bumps everytime you go over a bridge stand:











Swamp:


















Back on solid ground. It's hard to see because of the slick rain but the pavement here had cracks every 10 to 20 feet. So you're driving and you hear and feel the "clacking" sounds on your tires which I think is kinda cool:


























Out the back window of the shitty car I had back then:










Ok here the pavement got really bad. It's like the cracks in the pavement were jolting the car. As you could imagine you hear and feel "thunk, ka-thunk, BOOM, thunk, BOOM, grumbe, BOOM...etc." If the Struma Motorway was the most beautiful woman you've seen, this strech of Interstate 10 was like a woman you don't even wanna ****:










































Some roadside scenery:










Exit 23 seems very appealing:


















Appraching the bridge in Lake Charles:












The Bridge:



































The pavement got much better at this point. Looks like a repaving project was done in the past few years:










Then it got BAD again. Fucking awful, but I still love my Interstate system:


























These next 3 pictures are dedicated to *radi*



























The pavement got better again. Cool:



































Texas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Jeroen669

LtBk said:


> I wonder what excuses Dutch environmentalists and NIMBYs are going to make for blocking motorway upgrades after all their major motorways are gridlocked?


Ruining the landscape. (which COULD be a good excuse) But those organisations are just hypocratic, here. They just refuse to accept to build one single inch of asphalt, even not if it is well fit in (like in the A6-A9 connection, they blocked the plan for even a complete tunnel for the whole secion...) I'm especially talking about milieudefensie here. They have a lot of power and unfortunately also a lot of adherents...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's even worse, they have hired attorneys which are payed by the Dutch government. So we pay tax so these guys can make traffic jams and pollution worse!


----------



## rick1016

mgk920 said:


> -Two new 6 or 8 lane Saint Claire River crossings in the Detroit-Windsor area along with needed new connecting freeways on each side (all entries that I make here assume a Canada-USA customs union allowing the border checkpoints to be removed);
> 
> -A new Niagara River crossing between I-290 and the QEW on the north edge of Buffalo, NY/Fort Erie, ON;
> 
> -Interstate compatible highway upgrades between Vancouver, BC and Calgary and Edmonton, AB, along with better connections between that and I-5;
> 
> -A new-ROW I-25 extension from I-90 near Sheridan, WY via the Tongue River to I-94 in the Miles City, MT area, then continuing northward from I-94 roughly along MT 16 from Glendive, MT to continue along SK 6 to Regina, SK;
> 
> -Interstate compatible highway upgrades along US 2 and US 41 between I-75 at Saint Ignace, MI and Green Bay, WI. Also a direct freeway connection between the International Bridge at SSM and a new major highway running eastward from SSM towards Sudbury, ON (twin the bridge?);
> 
> -Extend I-35 from Duluth, MN to Thunder Bay, ON.
> 
> That should just aboot eat up $40G.
> 
> :yes:
> 
> Mike


Can you please run for congress? I'd donate all I have to your campaign!


----------



## Billpa

I don't feel any love after looking at those pictures. We're not supposed to be a third world country. Those examples of Interstate are simply awful. Nothing there to be proud of.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

This resurfaced section looks fine










But most of it looks like it has'nt been touched since opening


----------



## Paddington

You have a rare talent for picking out the ugliest, most dilapidated stretches of Interstate in America, and then posting oversized images of them that nobody really wants to see.

Well, it was a good thread while it lasted.


----------



## FM 2258

^^

Maybe it's a wakeup call that the U.S. government needs to take some serious action against our aging transportation infrastructure. We've already had an Interstate bridge collapse in Minneapolis, traffic is a nightmare in a lot of cities and as you can see in the pictures, potholes plague alot of our pavement. 

I'll try to resize the pictures next time. People who may have dial up connection might want to kill me at the moment. As for the claim that people don't want to see these pictures, if many more people than you object, then I'll get the hint that people just want discuss and look at only the most beautiful parts of the Interstate system.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

*Paddington*, it seems to me that you are somehow convinced that this thread is only about fabulous (man, I hate this word) interstates in the USA. Therefore, the few ugly pictures of American interstates, as they are in real life, should not go to this thread. You had the same problem with me posting some ugly pictures of I-80 in the Sierras even though I posted a few really nice ones too. 

I personally enjoyed FM's photo-report, but I agree that he should have downsized the pictures before posting them here.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Pics of the I-80 from Sacramento to Oakland.

Is this a metric unit?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I renamed the thread into a more comprehensive Interstate 80 in California thread.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> * Panel: Increase gas tax to fix roadways*
> 
> WASHINGTON (AP) -- A special commission is urging the government to raise federal gasoline taxes by as much as 40 cents per gallon over five years as part of a sweeping overhaul designed to ease traffic congestion and repair the nation's decaying bridges and roads.
> 
> The two-year study being released Tuesday by the National Surface Transportation Policy and Revenue Study Commission, the first to recommend broad changes after the devastating bridge collapse in Minnesota last August, warns that urgent action is needed to avoid future disasters.
> 
> Under the recommendation, the current tax of 18.4 cents per gallon for unleaded gasoline would be increased annually for five years -- by anywhere from 5 cents to 8 cents each year -- and then indexed to inflation afterward to help fix the infrastructure, expand public transit and highways as well as broaden railway and rural access, according to persons with direct knowledge of the report, who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because the report is not yet public.


I guess there will be a lot of opposition to this, but i think it's a good thing. It encourages people to buy more fuel-efficient cars, instead of those gas-eating monsters, plus the taxes will be spend on roads, which is often not the case in Europe, where gas prices are much higher than in the United States.


----------



## FM 2258

Chriszwolle said:


> I guess there will be a lot of opposition to this, but i think it's a good thing. It encourages people to buy more fuel-efficient cars, instead of those gas-eating monsters, plus the taxes will be spend on roads, which is often not the case in Europe, where gas prices are much higher than in the United States.


Sadly in the United States car is the only choice people have to get to where they need to go in a timely fashion. Hell if I rode my bike to the closest grocery store it would take at least an 30 minutes each way. There is no bus service to my apartment and no rail service to speak of. Taking the Amtrak from Austin to Dallas is a 6 hour trip when by car it's about 3 hours and 30 minutes. 

Going to Italy last year and the U.K. before really impressed me on how the whole continent seems to be perfectly networked with efficient bus and rail service. 

I spout all this but everyone already knows how bad public transportation is in the United States.


----------



## AUchamps

FM 2258 said:


> Sadly in the United States car is the only choice people have to get to where they need to go in a timely fashion. Hell if I rode my bike to the closest grocery store it would take at least an 30 minutes each way. There is no bus service to my apartment and no rail service to speak of. Taking the Amtrak from Austin to Dallas is a 6 hour trip when by car it's about 3 hours and 30 minutes.
> 
> Going to Italy last year and the U.K. before really impressed me on how the whole continent seems to be perfectly networked with efficient bus and rail service.
> 
> I spout all this but everyone already knows how bad public transportation is in the United States.


You're thinking only in terms of passenger service. What about Semi Trucks? We will always need Semis on the road and they will always be needed for our just in time logistics that we love so much. You can't stick a million bikes outside a major distribution center and expect them to deliver the goods. Our Interstates are truly vital for our Freight and no amount of "public transportation" will stop the ever growing demand for trucks that are joining the roads.


----------



## Chris_533976

> Going to Italy last year and the U.K. before really impressed me on how the whole continent seems to be perfectly networked with efficient bus and rail service.


aaaaahahahahahaahahaha


----------



## FM 2258

Chris_533976 said:


> aaaaahahahahahaahahaha


Ok, maybe Italy could use some improvement with their strike situations. hno:


----------



## gladisimo

The I-80 between SF and Sac is one of the most traveled roads. I've been on it a fair few times (to visit friends at UC Davis), and I have to admit, its pretty crap, but no worse than roads I usually use. (read 101 between SF and San Jose). 

Perhaps because of that I didn't notice. One thing I did notice was the sheer amount of traffic. Despite it being a significant stretch, all the lanes were filled and I couldn't find the room to go faster than 70.


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## ChrisZwolle

Public Transportation might be available a lot more in Europe, but it definatly isn't fast for commuting, except in large agglomerations of over 1 million. 

The fact that there are so many traffic jams in the Netherlands has nothing to do with people loving their car, it's just that public transportation isn't a good alternative.


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## ChrisZwolle

Interesting fact for those who say Public transportation is better for the environment;

In the Dutch city of Haarlem (population 147.000, part of a 7 million agglomeration), they found 85 buses caused 50% of the NO2 pollution in the entire city. They switched the old Diesel buses for natural gas-powered buses, and the NO2 pollution in the city dropped a stunning 50%! And it's not like these old buses were old diesel crap, the were euro 4-category buses, which is the second highest category in fuel efficiency and pollution. 

To sum up, 85 buses caused 50% of the traffic pollution of NO2. These buses have usually a low ridership, causing a pollution per traveller-mile that might be even higher than your average SUV.


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## urbanfan89

^^ Which is why we need to bring back/introduce/expand electric trolley service.


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## ChrisZwolle

Trolley buses are unnecessary expensive and not very flexible. If something happens why the bus cannot drive, the whole network has a problem, something that doesn't happen with regular buses.

Natural Gas buses can be a good solution.


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## phattonez

NO2 is not the only pollution caused by transportation. Your statistics are skewed.


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## ChrisZwolle

Ofcourse not. But it is one of the most important. (together with SO2 and PM10).

I was not talking about pollution in general, but strictly to NO2 pollution in particular.


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## phattonez

So we have to look at total partical pollution for that area, not just NO2, the statistics probably say something different.


----------



## RawLee

Chriszwolle said:


> Trolley buses are unnecessary expensive and not very flexible. If something happens why the bus cannot drive, the whole network has a problem, something that doesn't happen with regular buses.
> 
> Natural Gas buses can be a good solution.


----------



## Xusein

There will be riots in the streets if fuel taxes were raised. 

Not that I would be against it. While it would burn my pocket more, seeing the current state of our highways, at this point it is inevitable. It's bad in the short run, but very good in the long run.

I wonder how much I would pay for...the closest gas station to my place is $3.37/gal ($0.89/liter)...I guess it would be near $1/liter if implemented.


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## Verso

Chriszwolle said:


> The fact that there are so many traffic jams in the Netherlands has nothing to do with people loving their car, it's just that public transportation isn't a good alternative.


Everyone should stay at home.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

10ROT said:


> I wonder how much I would pay for...the closest gas station to my place is $3.37/gal ($0.89/liter)...I guess it would be near $1/liter if implemented.


The motorway gas stations charge $ 2,23 per liter. Somewhat cheaper unmanned ones charge $ 2,07 per liter in the Netherlands. So you guys really have nothing to complain about :lol:


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## Jeroen669

Chriszwolle said:


> Trolley buses are unnecessary expensive and not very flexible. If something happens why the bus cannot drive, the whole network has a problem, something that doesn't happen with regular buses.


That's not completely true. They can merge 3,5 metres to each side, so if there's just one lane blocked they can pass by. Plus, they have a reserve engine which in case of emergency can be used (which makes an extremely amount of noise, so you really want to avoid that).


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## Billpa

Chriszwolle said:


> But New York is signed there in Delaware? Via the NJ Turnpike? Not via Wilmington and Philadelphia is suppose...


Correct...


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## FM 2258

^^

Nice pictures. I'm not sure if it's just me but the NJ turnpike drive is extremely booooring. I love trees but they hide everything else and the exits are like 20 miles apart. Instead of feeling like you're in New Jersey it feels like you're in another dimension until it spits you out into the Newark area. To this day I have no idea what New Jersey looks like because I've only been on the turnpike. Any other highway seems to give you an idea of what lies beyond the shoulder.


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## Patrick

oh yes, the NJ is really boring, I thought before we went there that I could get some views to Philadelphia, but unfornutely not  but: that turnpike would fit well in Germany, for fast travelling


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## Billpa

FM 2258 said:


> I'm not sure if it's just me but the NJ turnpike drive is extremely booooring. I love trees but they hide everything else and the exits are like 20 miles apart.


Patrick's right, the NJ TPK is all about getting from point A to point B as fast as possible. It is straight as an arrow and doesn't mess about with dozens of exits on minor roads and streets.
FM, if you're in the area again, you might consider taking 295...it parallels the pike in south Jersey and offers more to see.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=39.930274,-75.010529&spn=0.302233,0.775909&z=11&om=0


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## Xusein

The NJ turnpike is only boring in South Jersey. That I could understand.

But, being a fan of industrial landscapes and urbanity...it's a "fun" drive seeing the oil refineries, large interchanges, rail lines, Newark Airport, and being able see the Manhattan skyline on one of the bridges in North Jersey. Plus, the enormity is something too!


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## FM 2258

Billpa said:


> Patrick's right, the NJ TPK is all about getting from point A to point B as fast as possible. It is straight as an arrow and doesn't mess about with dozens of exits on minor roads and streets.
> FM, if you're in the area again, you might consider taking 295...it parallels the pike in south Jersey and offers more to see.
> 
> http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=39.930274,-75.010529&spn=0.302233,0.775909&z=11&om=0



I'll try that next time. It looks like coming from the south I'd take 295 to 195, then 95 right? 



10ROT said:


> The NJ turnpike is only boring in South Jersey. That I could understand.
> 
> But, being a fan of industrial landscapes and urbanity...it's a "fun" drive seeing the oil refineries, large interchanges, rail lines, Newark Airport, and being able see the Manhattan skyline on one of the bridges in North Jersey. Plus, the enormity is something too!



I love industrial landscapes as well. I've always been fascinated with stuff like that. :cheers:


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## Billpa

FM 2258 said:


> I'll try that next time. It looks like coming from the south I'd take 295 to 195, then 95 right?


Yeah, that's right...It won't be as fast- but it won't be slow either...there's actually a couple of places where drivers on the pike and 295 can see each other- they're really close.


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## ADCS

FM 2258 said:


> ^^
> 
> Nice pictures. I'm not sure if it's just me but the NJ turnpike drive is extremely booooring. I love trees but they hide everything else and the exits are like 20 miles apart. Instead of feeling like you're in New Jersey it feels like you're in another dimension until it spits you out into the Newark area. To this day I have no idea what New Jersey looks like because I've only been on the turnpike. Any other highway seems to give you an idea of what lies beyond the shoulder.


To me, it seemed like all of NJ's highways are like that. I-80 is cool when you get toward the Delaware Water Gap, since it gets very hilly and mountainous near the border. However, the Parkway through central and South Jersey is completely tree-lined, as is I-287 and I-78 going away from NYC. Oh, and way too many state troopers up there, btw.

Taking the train up there is much more interesting, IMO


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## ChrisZwolle

Funny, in South Dakota, the gridpattern is very much alive in rural area's, all local rural roads are exactly one mile apart, and the road names increase to the east, so there is a 487th Avenue east of Sioux Falls.


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## ChrisZwolle

There is even a 900th Avenue in Minnesota 

But they add 10 each mile, in contrast to 1 to one mile in South Dakota.


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## ChrisZwolle

I just checked the I-90 in Chicago, and the number of exits just east of downtown is really crazy, they are only 80 - 100 meters apart :nuts:

This might be the highest exit density in the world. Maybe they have numbered them like Exit 88A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I etc.


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## ChrisH

That stretch in Chicago is pretty crazy, but about half the ramps have been closed. So only an exit every 300m!

They are numbered with letters as you suggest. I think it goes up to J?


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## ChrisZwolle

300m is still crazy, it means you'll pass by an exit every few seconds or so. It gives a lot of turbulency at the highway, which is not good for the traffic flow, it easy gets interrupted. Changing these exits is hard, since the I-90 is below street level here with a continuous line of overpasses.


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## ChrisZwolle

There are 8 exits in 1100 meters or a 7th of a mile or 1200 yards.


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## Verso

^^ Interesting, but that's not such a problem; on-ramps are problematic.


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Depends on rushhour direction

With so many exits, waiting lines at local streets easily jams the Interstate in the morning. 

I am not against a good distribution of traffic, in fact i think the grid street pattern is better than the European style of streets patterns, but this are too many exits. In the Netherlands 2 exits would be a lot on this section, and we are talking about 4 times that number of exits.


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## Chitowner245

^ almost all, if not all, of those exits on I-90 also have on=ramps, and our five lane highway running along the Westside highway is terribly slow most of the time. But that's nothing. We still have I-55 which goes all the way to new orleans, I-80 and I-90 that go from coast to coast, I-94 which goes from detroit to the west coast, plus 4 other tollways/ highways that stem from the city outwards to various points. Chicago is the transit hub of america including trucking, all other interstate transit, railroads, and connection points in our national transit system. It'd be nice if DC paid more respect to chicago and helped us out with our transit crisis. No other city has a national transit burden that we have, and with our extreme changes in weather year-round we're having a hell of a time keeping up.:bash:


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## Paddington

It's an old expressway that was built before civil engineers had 50+ years of data on modern traffic flows.


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## Tom 958

Paddington said:


> It's an old expressway that was built before civil engineers had 50+ years of data on modern traffic flows.


But, still, it would've been better to put the exits on the left and the entrances on the right. Left-hand entrances suck, and that was known fifty years ago.


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## wyqtor

If I were a city planner, I would demolish most of those and make entrance lanes from the left corresponding to those exits remaining.


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## Jalisquillo20

USA is the master country, is the best country in the world


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## LtBk

Jalisquillo20 said:


> USA is the master country, is the best country in the world


Sounds like you fallen to the US propaganda machine.


----------



## xXFallenXx

maybe he just got laid by an American chick?


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## DrJoe

I love how I didn't make this thread but I'm listed as the thread starter. Must have been merged.


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## Verso

DrJoe said:


> I love how I didn't make this thread but I'm listed as the thread starter. Must have been merged.


No, there was some nasty porn left after those first photos disappeared, so they just erased them.


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## Nephasto

They erased porn?! Evil moderators!!! :colgate:


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## Verso

^ It was nasty anyway.


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## Nephasto

:lol:


----------



## Chicagoago

Tom 958 said:


> But, still, it would've been better to put the exits on the left and the entrances on the right. Left-hand entrances suck, and that was known fifty years ago.


Yeah, that would have made more sense. I think the idea might have been that most traffic on the road was going downtown - since there are bypasses of the city for those just passing through.

Traffic already on the highway would tend to stay towards the right - since they're exiting the highway. Traffic entering would tend to be towards the left, where the entrances are. I guess they thought you'd have the same basic traffic counts, but people would be exiting off the highway and entering on different sides at a high volume.

At least they managed to tear out some of those entraces/exits when they rebuilt the whole thing a few years ago. It's actually not too bad at rush hour cause the traffic moves so slow you can merge in pretty easily. When there's no traffic people tend to get out of that left lane since they know there will be cars entering every 300M. The worst time to enter the highway is when traffic is light enough to be moving very fast, but busy enough that people are fully utilizing all 5 lanes. Then it can be quite difficult to merge into fast moving traffic with those limited sight lines and very short entrance ramps.

It was hard to design this since the loop was already so established and dense when the road was built. You don't want to have all that expressway traffic just entering 1 or 2 streets near the loop, cause they'd be overwhelmed. At the same time, you don't want to knock down huge blocks of buildings to create a few very large, high volume intersections.

All I know is - if you can fly through that stretch of road without seriously slowing down, you feel like you've just witnessed a miracle.


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## ChrisZwolle

Maybe another problem is, that the next bypass 15 miles to the east is (Interstate 294). That's quite a distance in this dense and vast urban area in Chicago. There are easily a couple of million people living between the two corridors, giving high pressure on the existing I-90/I-94 overlap, while the 294 is tolled, and people tend to avoid tolled expressways. 

And the downtown of Chicago has a huge business center, while the suburbs are not very dense, and wide spread-out, making public transportation to the city inefficient compared to the car, so many people take the car instead of the train, lightrail, metro or buses.


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## LtBk

Some of suburbs are dense though.


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## Jalisquillo20

edit


----------



## Xusein

Interesting op-ed piece that I found from my local newspaper.

As of 2008, Connecticut and Long Island, NY, although pretty much opposite from each other on the Long Island Sound, are not connected by any kind of bridge. There are ferries, but for the majority of us here who want to go to Long Island, you have to drive through New York City.

Sounds like a no-brainer, although it seems private-money would be the only way for this to be built. The price tag is too prohibitive for the state of NY or CT, and both states are lessening dependence on highways.

A rail link would be nice too.

Link: http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/editorials/hc-tunnel.artjan29,0,5754936.story



> *A Long Island Sound Tunnel?*
> 
> January 29, 2008
> A businessman's proposal to build the world's longest highway tunnel under the western end of Long Island Sound is breathtakingly ambitious. It also flies in the face of sensible transportation policy.
> 
> Developer Vincent Polimeni says his privately financed $10 billion tunnel would extend for 16 to 18 miles, linking Oyster Bay on Long Island and Rye, N.Y. It would consist of two tubes carrying three lanes of traffic, plus a central tunnel for maintenance, emergency ventilation and egress.
> 
> Mr. Polimeni says the project would alleviate traffic congestion by giving an estimated 80,000 motorists traveling between Long Island and New England an alternative to New York City's crowded highways. Giving motorists a shorter route will also reduce air pollution, he says.
> 
> Arguing that another highway will cut air pollution is a little like saying that a drink is the answer to an alcoholic's craving. Even if it's true for the short term, the long-term consequences are likely to be a disaster.
> 
> If the last half-century of highway building has taught us anything, it's that new highways mean more traffic — and pollution.
> 
> Mr. Polimeni also seems to overlook the effects this tunnel would have on local roads in Oyster Bay and Rye, many of which are already congested. So much so that the mayor of Rye recently predicted that Mr. Polimeni's tunnel would render that town's roads "nonfunctional."
> 
> More and improved mass transit — trains, ferries and buses — is the best answer to the region's transportation challenges, not more highways. It's also the best way to reduce air pollution.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I see some misunderstandings and incorrectness in this article. 

First of all, do new highways support more people to drive, or do we just forget the fact of population growth? It's easy to argue that the new highways may have lead to an increase of traffic, but they also "forget" to mention the population growth. In 1950, the United States had only 140 million inhabitants, while we are now facing over 300 million Americans. Ofcourse this also have led to an increase of traffic, not only because they have constructed more highways. Imagine the traffic jams if there were even lesser highways. 



> More and improved mass transit — trains, ferries and buses — is the best answer to the region's transportation challenges, not more highways. It's also the best way to reduce air pollution.


Also, the first reaction of anti car/highway parties, though no single traffic jam had been shortened by investing in public transportation. This might be a bit different in New York, but it's unrealistic to think Public Transportation is THE solution for traffic jams. It is often a matter of different transportation demands, and only efficient in high density cities (like New York City proper excluding Staten Island). I don't say we shouldn't invest in mass transit, but it's too simplistic to think this will be an actual solution for transportation demands and traffic jams. 

Third of all, i agree on the article that they also should investigate the connecting road network to this proposed tunnel. It happens often, that with new spatial developments, only the direct area is investigated, while the effects are usual on a larger area. Also, i think they really have to investigate if there is really such a great transportation demand between Long Island and New England that justifies such an expensive tunnel. Especially if this tunnel will be on the more rural eastern Long Island, it wouldn't attract enough traffic to make this investment cost-efficient. 

I think the 10 billion budget can be better spend on the New York road network, especially in New York City itself, where a lot of expressways are outdated.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

AADT:

George Washington Bridge 296.900
Lincoln Tunnel 120.800
Holland Tunnel 93.300
Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel 52.400
Brooklyn Bridge 145.000
Manhattan Bridge 80.000
Williamsburg Bridge 110.000
Queens-Midtown Tunnel 83.900
Queensboro Bridge 192.000
Henry Hudson Bridge 68.800
Madison Avenue Bridge 48.400
Third Avenue Bridge 50.200
Harlem River Lift Bridge 95.600
Macombs Dam Bridge 40.100
University Heights Bridge 45.000
Broadway Bridge 35.700

Total: 1.558.100

(*1,2)
Number of passengers: ~1,9 million.

The above figures illustrates that Mass transit might be prominent within New York City, it is not to the suburban areas on Long Island, New Jersey, Connecticut and New York (state). 

Also, these numbers are harder to be serviced by mass transit, because they are more spreadout over the area than New York City proper. Trying to capture enough people to mass transit so traffic jams will decrease will be prohibitively expensive. 

I'll stick with my argument that Public Transportation can only be sufficient for transportation demands in densely populated areas;

Manhattan
Bronx
Queens
Brooklyn

(Staten Island is not dense enough, and relatively far away)

aswell as some New Jersey suburbs like those between the Hackensack and Hudson rivers. 

Trying to serve the other suburbs will be so expensive, the costs do not justify the results. 

In my opinion, current problems are threefold;
* mass construction of low density suburbs (Urban Sprawl)
* at the same time, the wish that these residents travel with mass transit
* with the result that highways will not be widened, and traffic jams will be worsened

There are some solutions;
* prohibit mass construction of urban sprawl
* be realistic and widen the roads in reference to the spatial developments and population growth
* spread working locations over more locations within the cities. Clustering of office buildings can only work out if there are no sprawling suburbs, traffic-wise, otherwise it attracts too much car-traffic.
* stimulate the use of mass transit when efficient, stimulating mass transit at all times shows the lack of realism. 
* Accept the fact that private transportation will be more efficient in 90% of the times, whether we are talking about fossil energy powered cars now, or other types of power in the future.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Snoqualmie pass is closed due to avalanche danger

lot of sections of the I-80 in Wyoming are also closed

Midday I-80:


----------



## Xusein

Chriszwolle said:


> Also, i think they really have to investigate if there is really such a great transportation demand between Long Island and New England that justifies such an expensive tunnel. Especially if this tunnel will be on the more rural eastern Long Island, it wouldn't attract enough traffic to make this investment cost-efficient.


Actually, the project, if it ever happened, would connect the Western part of Long Island, to Westchester County (and Connecticut). Although there isn't much interaction between the two areas, because of a lack of a connector and they all are just suburbs, it would help people in Long Island be able to get out of the island without going through NYC traffic. There could be more economic trade and interaction too. Long Island feels a lot farther away than it is.

In retrospect, a tunnel or a bridge should have been done decades ago, during the age of construction, but all the projects to connect Long Island to Connecticut or Westchester were shot down. NIMBYs were incredibly high then too. Now, it will be prohibitively expensive either way...this is an area with some of the highest land values in the entire US.

I agree with you, there should still be maintenance of the highways in New York, and the US in particular. New York's highways are in horrible shape. I believe that the only Interstate in the entire city that is actually up to Interstate standards is I-295 in Queens, which is in a more suburban area of the city. The infrastructure here, whether road, rail, PT, whatever...is in need of renovation.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What about a causeway, or is the Long Island Sound too deep?


----------



## Xusein

I don't think so...the area where the tunnel was proposed isn't too far from where the LI sound narrows into the East River.


----------



## Xusein

As a point of reference, I'll just post the entire Wikipedia page on this failed project.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Island_Crossing



> *Long Island Crossing*
> 
> The Long Island Crossing was a proposal to span the Long Island Sound and connect New York's Long Island with Connecticut and/or Rhode Island. The purpose was to provide access between Long Island and points north that would bypass New York City.
> 
> A variety of bridge routes were proposed:
> 
> 1. A bridge connecting Mamaroneck in Westchester County, New York, with Sands Point on Long Island. This bridge would lead to a possible spur of Bronx-White Plains Expressway[citation needed] onto Long Island via the unbuilt Western Nassau Expressway in Nassau County.
> 
> 2. A bridge connecting Rye in Westchester County, New York, with Oyster Bay on Long Island. This bridge would be an extension of Interstate 287 onto Long Island via the existing Seaford-Oyster Bay Expressway in Nassau County.
> 
> 3. A second bridge connecting Rye to the City of Glen Cove on Long Island. This bridge would have connected to the Glen Cove Arterial Highway on Long Island.
> 
> 4. A bridge connecting Asharoken, New York to either Stamford, or Norwalk, Connecticut. This bridge would have connected to the unbuilt Babylon-Northport Expressway in Western Suffolk County. In Norwalk, it would have led to the already upgraded U.S. Route 7, while in Stamford, it would more than likely have connected to the unbuilt Pound Ridge-Stamford Expressway, and lead back into New York.
> 
> 5. A bridge and possible dam connecting Poquott, New York to Bridgeport, Connecticut. This bridge would have connected the unbuilt Suffolk County Road 110 (A.O. Smith Turnpike) to CT 8-25.
> 
> 6. A bridge connecting either New Haven, Connecticut or East Haven, Connecticut, with Shoreham, New York, on Long Island. This bridge would be an extension of Interstate 91 which would continue through Long Island via the already existing William Floyd Parkway.
> 
> 7. A bridge connecting Riverhead, New York with Guilford, Connecticut. This bridge would have connected at an alternate extension of Interstate 495 to Exit 59 on the Connecticut Turnpike.
> 
> 8. A bridge connecting Old Saybrook, Connecticut with East Marion, New York. This bridge would have connected the east end of the Long Island Expressway with CT 9 near Interstate 95 in Connecticut.
> 
> 9. A causeway and bridge connecting Orient Point, New York, with Rhode Island along a series of islands between the North Fork of Long Island and an eastern terminus at Interstate 95 in Rhode Island.
> 
> All nine ideas were discussed in the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s, but all were canceled. Some were reconsidered during the 1990s, but the New York State Department of Transportation backed away from the idea in belief that it would not relieve congestion. Long Islanders seem to favor a bridge but New Englanders are not very supportive of the idea, claiming that it would benefit Long Island at their expense.


Hmmm...maybe this subject is more suited in the Bridge forum. :?


----------



## FM 2258

sonysnob said:


> I-80 in Pennsylvania:
> (Click the links for high-res):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.canhighways.com/Pa/PHOTOS/I80_Pa_4_lg.jpg


That is a beautiful shot of Interstate 80(and U.S. 209). Does that sign say EAST Interstate 80 and NORTH U.S. 209? I wonder how long Interstate 80 follows U.S. 209. The speed limit is outrageous because I know that once the highway turns into a freeway people are itching to do 70mph and higher.


----------



## Billpa

209 is only with 80 for an exit or two- no more than a mile.
The speed limit is that low because it's a very narrow road with curves and several exits in close proximity.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*As many as dozen people were injured and 50 vehicles damaged in a fog-related pileup early Tuesday south of Fresno, the California Highway Patrol said.*

The chain-reaction accident shut down a portion of Highway 99's southbound lanes and scattered broken glass and mangled cars along a three-mile stretch in Kingsburg.

Rescue crews cut three people from a car that slammed into a big rig, officer Joseph Miller said. One woman was unconscious and pinned in her car for almost two hours while crews attempted to pry her out.


----------



## FM 2258

Billpa said:


> 209 is only with 80 for an exit or two- no more than a mile.
> The speed limit is that low because it's a very narrow road with curves and several exits in close proximity.


It looks like U.S. 209 follows the green line here so maybe the other "209" shown on the map is the "old 209" which is probably signed as a business US highway. I guess for people driving straight through on 209 it would make sense to let it follow 80 through the town. 











Edit: 

Here's a quote from this page:
http://www.northeastroads.com/i-080_pa.html



> Southbound U.S. 209 Business (Main Street) at Interstate 80 in Stroudsburg. A half-cloverleaf interchange joins Interstate 80 & U.S. 209 above with Main Street below at Exit 305. The freeway itself is narrow with four lanes and a 50 mph speed limit from Stroudsberg eastward to the Delaware Water Gap. At the Delaware Water Gap, Interstate 80 crosses the scenic Delaware River via a tolled bridge into the Garden State. The bridge carries a $1 toll for all passenger vehicles traveling in the westbound direction. Photo taken 07/28/00.


----------



## FM 2258

mgk920 said:


> Been there, done that. During my 1994 roadtrip to Colorado, I hopped off of I-80 at first opportunity to use paralleling US 30 across Nebraska on my eastbound return trip. It runs right next to the World's busiest freight railroad - 120 trains/day on average.
> 
> About I-90, yes, there is some interest in the area around the PA/NY state line (yes, the vineyards), but most of it is straight or long broad curves, long gentle grades and absolutely unchanging trees, trees, more trees and still more trees. And yes, you can see Lake Erie in the distance from several sections, but it just doesn't overcome that stifling boredom. Going eastbound, I-86 (it connects with I-90 just east of Erie) is a welcome relief.
> 
> Mike



The unchanging trees you talk about seems similar to the boredom you get on the New Jersey Turnpike. hno:


Who knew that nice perfectly straight freeways would become boring? I guess you can't fault the actual highway because all it does is take you through the landscape. Better to be bored on a long freeway at high speed versus being frustrated taking a horse and buggy on a muddy trail in the same location in the 1890's.


----------



## Verso

^ Or in case one prefers the second option, (s)he can still do it.


----------



## sonysnob

FM 2258 said:


> That is a beautiful shot of Interstate 80(and U.S. 209). Does that sign say EAST Interstate 80 and NORTH U.S. 209? I wonder how long Interstate 80 follows U.S. 209. The speed limit is outrageous because I know that once the highway turns into a freeway people are itching to do 70mph and higher.


People fly on this stretch of freeway. Speed enforcement signs are everywhere, yet the traffic moves at an extremely quick pace -- Coupled with the narrowness of the corridor, it makes for a very entertaining drive .


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> *I-10 San Bernardino Frwy - Westbound*
> 
> Slow 57 Orange Frwy to I-710/Long Beach Frwy Delay of 26 minutes


5.30 am :nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> *60 Pomona Frwy - Westbound*
> 
> Jammed I-15 Frwy to I-10 Santa Monica Frwy Delay of 102 minutes
> 
> *I-10 San Bernardino Frwy - Westbound*
> 
> Jammed 57 Orange Frwy to I-710/Long Beach Frwy Delay of 75 minutes
> 
> *210 Frwy - Westbound*
> 
> Jammed San Dimas Av to Rosemead Blvd Delay of 101 minutes


:cheers:


----------



## [email protected]

miptag said:


> wait are you saying many of there roads here were build before WWII. we are talking about the interstate system right, the one that Eisenhower started in the 50's or what?


Miptag. there were several toll highways built before the Interstate system started eg The Mass turnpike, Penn turnpike etc. These were incorporated into the Interstate system and were allowed to continue collecting tolls.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

http://www.youtube.com/user/llnesinthesand

Check out the stack of road video's of this guy. Mainly in the southeastern United States area.


----------



## Billpa

South Carolina has recently updated its official state route marker.

Out with the old...










And in with the new...


----------



## sonysnob

Some US states have very unimaginative route markers


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## Billpa

sonysnob said:


> Some US states have very unimaginative route markers


True...but they are designed to get you from point a to point b, not necessarily look nice. 
These new SC signs look nice- In fact, I think they did a pretty good job with them- but there is, in theory, less room for the actual number, which is sort of important after all.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Billpa, you know what is ironic? When I said that European speed limit sign was better than American, a lot of American fellow forumer members said that European red circle with a number inside would look like a route number to them which would be confusing. However, old SC and current Montana route markers (maybe there are more I am unaware of) look exactly like American speed limit sign


----------



## Billpa

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Billpa, you know what is ironic? When I said that European speed limit sign was better than American, a lot of American fellow forumer members said that European red circle with a number inside would look like a route number to them which would be confusing. However, old SC and current Montana route markers (maybe there are more I am unaware of) look exactly like American speed limit sign


You're right.
There are no route markers that use red circles so I think that argument is bogus, as do you, I suspect.


----------



## hoosier

Man, Pennsylvania has the worst roads in the country. Trust me, I have spent many hours driving on them.

Their roads are barely above the quality you would expect in a third world country.


----------



## TheCat

^^ I-81 and I-80 in PA are decent, from my limited experience.


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## gladisimo

I'm actually used to both the British and American system, actually, I suppose it's because of the time I've spent in both places.


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## Billpa

hoosier said:


> Man, Pennsylvania has the worst roads in the country. Trust me, I have spent many hours driving on them.
> 
> Their roads are barely above the quality you would expect in a third world country.


Many hours?
Some of us live here. 
There are problems here, but I think you could do worse in places like Louisiana.


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## Timon91

This summer, I will visit Alaska, let's see how roads are there.... (Dalton highway....)


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## Verso

^ The Dalton Highway may be good for where it is, but don't expect it to be Struma quality.  (it's not paved, btw)


----------



## hoosier

Billpa said:


> Many hours?
> Some of us live here.
> There are problems here, but I think you could do worse in places like Louisiana.


My biggest gripe has to do with the Penn Turnpike (I-76) and the fact that you have to exit onto surface streets to connect to intersecting freeways like I-99 and I-81.

Indiana's roads aren't much better, so I wasn't trying to be arrogant.


----------



## Timon91

Verso said:


> ^ The Dalton Highway may be good for where it is, but don't expect it to be Struma quality.  (it's not paved, btw)


Yeah, I know. I hope to make a one-day organized tour from Fairbanks to the Arctic Circle (with most of the rented cars it's not allowed to go on unpaved roads, unless you hire a 4×4). If I do that, I will of course try to make some nice pics.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Does anybody now where i can find Texas AADT figures? i couldn't find it on the TX DOT website.


----------



## mgk920

*New section of interstate to open Thursday, 2008-02-21*

A new 12 km section of I-40 opens on Thursday, 2008-02-21 in the western part of the Greensboro, NC area. This completes the southern part city's 'Urban Loop' bypass and I-40 will be rerouted onto it. Current I-40 through the city's downtown area will become 'BUSINESS I-40'. Also, a northwestern section of that Urban Loop (I-73/840) north of current I-40 opened this past December.

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080219/NRSTAFF/834362596

:dance:

Mike


----------



## sonysnob

I think its kind of funny that a controlled access freeway that lacks direct business access would be named a business route.


----------



## ttownfeen

I've never seen a highway reassurance maker that is blue. I thought black and white was pretty standard in the USA (except for California's green reassurance markers, I think).


----------



## AUchamps

Minnesota is pretty unique.


----------



## Chicagoago

sonysnob said:


> I think its kind of funny that a controlled access freeway that lacks direct business access would be named a business route.


It is strange in the US as well. Normally that stretch would be renamed from I-40 to something like I-240 or I-440, etc. Business Routes are normally spurs that go into a city center, are surface streets, and then catch back up to the interstate.


----------



## jchernin

sonysnob said:


> I think its kind of funny that a controlled access freeway that lacks direct business access would be named a business route.


in SACRAMENTO, CA:

I-80 goes north to avoid much of the heart of the city

while BUSINESS I-80 (a controlled access freeway) goes thru downtown (also known as 'capitol city freeway')


----------



## Billpa

Interstate 410 in San Antonio, Texas. How very American:


----------



## xXFallenXx

^^ i LOVE that picture.


----------



## Paddington

Billpa said:


> Interstate 410 in San Antonio, Texas. How very American:


Jesus H. Christ that's ugly. :shocked:

I'm not sure I would call it "American", as it is peculiarly "Texan". Here in Ohio, the state DOT and other civil engineering authorities just don't build stuff that way. Actually I rather like the way cities are built in Ohio. Our ten lane roads are actually pretty nice where they do exist. It's because of Texas's insistence on building those service roads next to expressways that you get scenes like that. Actually, pretty much all of Houston looks like that, with ten lane expressways with six service lanes on each side, with a Walmart on one side, and giant Target on the other side, and McDonald's and "Taco Shops" as far as the eye can see, all with enormous bright signs rising into the sky so people on the other side of the 16 lanes of traffic can see them. In contrast, the commercial avenues here in Ohio tend to have maybe 5 lanes (including the center turn lane) and the commercial signage is a lot more understated.


----------



## mgk920

Is that the new I-410/US 281 interchange on the city's north side? For many years those two major freeways crossed there with *NO* direct connection between them.

Mike


----------



## AUchamps

Billpa said:


> Interstate 410 in San Antonio, Texas. How very American:


I love that picture too. Texas does it right with Frontage Roads.


----------



## FM 2258

mgk920 said:


> Is that the new I-410/US 281 interchange on the city's north side? For many years those two major freeways crossed there with *NO* direct connection between them.
> 
> Mike



Oh man, that intersection is awful and I'm glad they're finally building a proper freeway interchange for this junction. 


Living in Texas I love the frontage roads. They serve many good purposes especially when there's an accident on the freeway, you can just by pass it by exiting on the frontage road. 

I remember being surprised going to other states and NOT seeing frontage roads until I realized that this is a Texas thing. Frontage roads make the city much more accessible and with easier access to businesses. If you're gonna put them somewhere, you might as well put the businesses on the freeway.

If you want scenery, there's Farm to Market Roads for that. I love Farm Roads as you can tell by my username.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah Frontage Roads are a good thing i think. In urban area's, it can also replace traffic jams waiting for traffic lights to the Frontage road, instead directly on the freeway. 

Though most American highways lack aesthetics, because they usually made completely from concrete. I don't know, but asphalted ones just make it less ugly.


----------



## Paddington

I don't know. I think frontage roads are pretty stupid, if for no other reason than they create terrible urban concrete blight. There's a reason why the rest of the U.S. doesn't build them. I actually find driving around in Texas to be a pretty big hassle compared to elsewhere in the U.S. (including California's congested roads), just because of the frontage roads. Also, try getting to a business that's on the other side of the 16 lanes of traffic. When I was in Texas, I noticed that going out for simple errands takes much longer because of all the frontage roads, U-turns, etc. involved.

In fact, according to this even Texas has decided against them:

http://austin.about.com/od/streets/f/frontageroad.htm



> Though most American highways lack aesthetics, because they usually made completely from concrete. I don't know, but asphalted ones just make it less ugly.


If that concrete monster above was made out of asphalt, it would still look pretty damn ugly. It's not a view you would want from your window or business.


----------



## FM 2258

^^

I'm not sure what that article is talking about because the new tollway built in Austin have frontage roads or provisions for frontage roads. If it wasn't for frontage roads it would be much harder to turn a regular highway into a freeway. When they upgraded U.S. 183 from a highway with traffic lights they cleared land, built frontage roads then when those were done they started work on the freeway. After that you have a freeway with frontage roads. 

Tollways 45 and 130 have frontage roads for a good portion of them. The difference I see is that frontage roads bring the freeway to the "front yard" instead of keeping it in the "back yard." 

When I was in California in November in Ventura I saw a "Whole Foods" store from the freeway but I had no idea how to get to it. If the freeway had frontage roads I could easily exit, do a U-turn and find my way back to that street. Same thing happened out there when I was looking for an In-N-Out burger. I saw a sign sticking up a few hundred feet from the freeway but I already passed the exit. The next exit was about 2 miles away and it was tough trying to find that restaurant. Also frontage roads give you more exits from the freeway and reduces traffic congestion because all those people that don't really need to be on the freeway can drive on the frontage road. It's just better for business in my opinion.


----------



## TheCat

^^ Collector-express systems are superior to frontage roads, being both more efficient and aesthetically-pleasing, although not being exactly equivalent to frontage roads when it comes to function.

The main advantage to frontage roads is direct access to businesses, which are located along freeways that once were regular roads and were upgraded. However, while the posted picture is fascinating in its own right, it also looks quite ugly, and I'm not talking about the concrete (I have no problem with concrete freeways), but just the general cityscape. Such freeways with frontage roads definitely become very bulky and visible monster landmarks in a city, instead of blending in nicely.

Except for access to businesses, which can be done using ordinary streets, collector-express systems offer effective distribution of traffic on freeways when there are many exits in a densely populated urban area. They also come with the bonus of being freeway-standard themselves (i.e. high speed, with limited access).


----------



## Billpa

TheCat said:


> while the posted picture is fascinating in its own right, it also looks quite ugly, and I'm not talking about the concrete (I have no problem with concrete freeways), but just the general cityscape


I generally agree with this statement.
I can appreciate all those roads and exits and frontage roads and the businesses that go along with them on one level- but it leaves me wondering what the next step will be. What happens when even more traffic clogs that new setup- how much wider are they going to build that thing? How many more strip malls and TGI Fridays locations will be required by the masses?

I used to live near El Paso, which has its own frontage roads along I-10 (Gateway Blvd)- it did make it feel sort of convenient to get to the exact spot you were going to- but on the other hand, the many years I've lived in the northeast, I've never not been able to get somewhere- and NOT having frontage roads tends to make things look nicer- or at least varied and not the same for mile after mile.


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## mgk920

I believe that there is a basic tenet of law in Texas that says that ANY land owner has an inviolate right of direct access to ANY public right of way that his/her land fronts on. Those frontage/feeder roads were devised to make that legal tenet compatible with the design standards of the interstate highway system, as well as with other freeways in general.

One aspect of them that I do like (in fact, REALLY like) is that the state can quickly and cheaply establish new major road corridors in newly developing areas by building the frontage roads first, adding the freeway in the middle later on when traffic numbers call for it - completely taking the NIMBY factor out of the equation in the process.

There are a few other places in the USA where such direct-access frontage roads are common, metro Detroit, MI is the biggie. They are also seen to a lesser extent in many other places (ie, the Dan Ryan Expressway in Chicago).

As for the patterns and appearance of the development along those Texas freeways - THAT is 100% up to the local governments and their zoning gurus.

Mike


----------



## Rail Claimore

Frontage roads may be ugly (subjective opinion), but they have more advantages than disadvantages when you take external factors into consideration: Someone mentioned that they pretty much quell NIMBYism, and that's true. Frontage roads preserve the accessibility of surface streets while at the same time providing the advantages of limited-access mobility. In fact, more states are adopting them, not necessarily for new freeways, but for upgrading existing arterials that handle way more traffic than they're capable of. Frontage roads provide a way to build a freeway without creating a new corridor. And frontage roads can look aesthetically pleasing with proper landscaping and engineering.

They also provide for better land-use patterns because commercial development in the area is naturally attracted to frontage roads rather than an abundance of surface streets, thus providing for less-congested (relatively) and commercially cluttered surface streets in primarily residential areas.


----------



## FM 2258

Here's an example of a highway in Texas built to accomodate a future freeway, Texas 170 north of Dallas/Ft Worth area:


----------



## Billpa

^^
Is that freeway going to be built, or was that set up that way in case they decided to build sometime down the line?
It must be the world's widest median at the moment!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ The I-8 east of San Diego has a median that is over 2 miles wide


----------



## FM 2258

Billpa said:


> ^^
> Is that freeway going to be built, or was that set up that way in case they decided to build sometime down the line?
> It must be the world's widest median at the moment!


It looks like it but the way things are going in Texas every new planned "freeway" is going to be a tollway. Here is an excerpt I found doing a google search:



> *SH 170*
> Frontage roads are in place between SH 114 and IH 35W. Extensive growth and development in
> and around Alliance Texas has generated a need to provide the main lanes and to extend the
> roadway westerly, initially to US 287 (14 miles) and ultimately to the new DFW Outer Loop. As
> a result of recently enacted state legislation, the Texas Transportation Commission at its June 28,
> 2007 meeting instructed the Department to begin the SB 792 market evaluation process. NTTA
> has engaged Carter Burgess to do an environmental assessment of the 170 project in order to get
> environmental clearance.


source: www.trtcmobility.org/upload/Project Status 072707.pdf

if that doesn't work try: http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...xas&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us&client=firefox-a


----------



## Billpa

On a side note, I think the route signage being used on the new toll roads around Austin are among the best I've seen anywhere in the world.
The numbers are clear as is the fact it's a toll highway. And the flag at the bottom looks wonderful.


----------



## FM 2258

^^

I like the "standard" signage but for some reason the signs on 130 are different from the ones on 45 which use the signs you posted. This what they really look like on 130:










also some of the signs on 45 look like this below (without a blue background)










It seems like I'm hating on the tollway signage but all the text is in this new Clearview font which is pretty fucking ugly in my opinion. It kinda makes me cringe looking at it but I try to ignore it since most people don't care anyway.


----------



## Billpa

FM 2258 said:


> ^ all the text is in this new Clearview font which is pretty fucking ugly in my opinion. It kinda makes me cringe looking at it but I try to ignore it since most people don't care anyway.


Texas seems to be moving to Clearview on all its highways, so I'd get used to it if I were you.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

I love new Clearview font! Looks very similar to the font used on German motorways signs.


----------



## Billpa

FM 2258 said:


>



It's interesting that the FM roads are written on a square or rectangle on the large green guide signs as opposed to the Texas map signage that's actually used on the Farm-to-Market roads themselves. I suppose it's done for clarity.


----------



## FM 2258

Billpa said:


> It's interesting that the FM roads are written on a square or rectangle on the large green guide signs as opposed to the Texas map signage that's actually used on the Farm-to-Market roads themselves. I suppose it's done for clarity.


Yeah I always found that interesting. The sheild on the big green sign is completely different from the shield you see on the pole. 










Also for the state highway signs you'll see "Texas" on the top from the freeway, but once you get to the actually road sign they place "Texas" on the bottom. 

Here's an example: 
(This is Interstate 610 in Houston by the way)









(Dallas)


----------



## Mateusz

FM 2258 said:


> Here's an example of a highway in Texas built to accomodate a future freeway, Texas 170 north of Dallas/Ft Worth area:


Wow ^^


----------



## sonysnob

are there any other states that use a different shield design on guide signage then on stand alone shields?


----------



## Billpa

sonysnob said:


> are there any other states that use a different shield design on guide signage then on stand alone shields?


New Mexico does...
It's standard route sign is the Zia symbol...










But on guide signs it'll look more like this:


----------



## ADCS

FM 2258 said:


>


That sign cracks me up... it hasn't been US 75 through there since 1989 (replaced with SH 75), yet it has always been signed as such at that one spot alone. They just replaced this sign in the last six months, and sure enough, they didn't fix it.


----------



## FM 2258

ADCS said:


> That sign cracks me up... it hasn't been US 75 through there since 1989 (replaced with SH 75), yet it has always been signed as such at that one spot alone. They just replaced this sign in the last six months, and sure enough, they didn't fix it.


Sometimes it annoys me when they make mistakes like that. 

Here in Austin one of the exit signs for Loop 360 says "Texas 360". Texas 360 is in the DFW area not Austin. Also on the way to San Antonio there's an exit for F.M. 306 and F.M. 483. Well the sign said F.M. 306 and Texas 483. It looks they got lazy after replacing the sign below. 












sonysnob said:


> are there any other states that use a different shield design on guide signage then on stand alone shields?




Louisiana state highway signs all seem to differ slightly. Some are closer to the actual shape of Louisiana while others are seemingly overly stylized verisions of Louisiana. Also they place the letters "LA" on the stand alone shield but not on the freeway:



























On the guide signs they also differ slightly as well. Some of them are with white backgrounds while others are outlines and the shapes differ slightly as well.


----------



## Rail Claimore

Billpa said:


> Texas seems to be moving to Clearview on all its highways, so I'd get used to it if I were you.


Clearview has been selected as the new standard font for signage, thanks to its increased readability. It's caught on in several states, including Illinois and Michigan.

I believe Georgia uses a narrower version of Clearview that is unique among US states.


----------



## gladisimo

RON-E said:


> especially in los angeles, earthquakes and all, especially on a fault line...


Now you can feel my fear of going in the tube on BART everyday...

I know it's supposed to be safe, and it survived the 89 quake, but I'm still afraid.


----------



## shadyunltd

Seriously, the Big Dig ended up costing $14 Billion. This one will cost over $50 Billion for sure and it'll be dealt with the same way the Big Dig was dealt with... that is, badly.

70,000 cars a day is good, but not in LA. For this tunnel to be useful, it should have a 4x4 expressway instead of a 3x3. But the idea is good though. I hope it gets built...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I have read about this proposal. It wasn't so smart to concentrate all jobs in the O.C., while everybody lives in the Inland Empire. The tolls on the 91 express lanes can be ridiculous high. The problem is that there are only 4 freeways in this area, (210, 10, 60 and 91 freeways), which are all very congested. The Santa Ana Mountains doesn't allow a straight road between Corona and Irvine. 12 miles is quite long for US standards.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

shadyunltd said:


> Seriously, the Big Dig ended up costing $14 Billion. This one will cost over $50 Billion for sure and it'll be dealt with the same way the Big Dig was dealt with... that is, badly.
> 
> 70,000 cars a day is good, but not in LA. For this tunnel to be useful, it should have a 4x4 expressway instead of a 3x3. But the idea is good though. I hope it gets built...


First thing; this one is in a quite different environment. Urban tunnels tend to get a huge cost overrun. This one is also not very easy in the seismic zone, but you don't need detours and demolition of homes and all other stuff related to urbanism like electrical wires, sewers, pipelines and stuff. 

I agree on the second issue, 2x2 lanes is nothing, it should have been 2x5 lanes, like most freeways in Los Angeles. This doesn't look like good future planning to me, especially with the rapid growing suburbs south of Corona and Riverside. (around Temecula).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

If you spread out the costs over like 10 - 15 years of construction, it's not all bad. They could increase the sales tax, like they did in Orange County and Phoenix to construct some freeways. I'd suggest they do that in Riverside County, because they are likely the ones to use it the most.


----------



## Verso

Hey, great pics and explanation, Tom 958!


----------



## Tom 958

Verso said:


> Hey, great pics and explanation, Tom 958!


Hey, thanks! I should get started on my next project-- it's a bit more exciting...

If I'm ever gonna give back to others on this site even a fraction of the pleasure they've given me, I'd better get to work.


----------



## Verso

^ I wonder what this next project would be.


----------



## shadyunltd

Will it be a tollway or free?


----------



## Tom 958

Verso said:


> ^ I wonder what this next project would be.


Don't get too worked up-- it'll be more impressive than this:









but nowhere near as impressive as this:









Actually, it's here: http://www.google.com/maphp?hl=en&q=&ie=UTF8&ll=33.965074,-84.101372&spn=0.020003,0.039139&t=k&z=14 , which is only about three miles from my house. It doesn't look like that any more-- there's a $147m reconstruction project underway now, about 80% completed. I went out and took some photos right after I last posted, but I should've gone earlier in the day. The lighting was crappy for what ought to be the most dramatic photos, and I might not get a chance to reshoot them until next weekend. Maybe I'll post some soon and others later.

Edit: And there's a special treat for Radi...


----------



## xXFallenXx

Chriszwolle said:


> First thing; this one is in a quite different environment. Urban tunnels tend to get a huge cost overrun. This one is also not very easy in the seismic zone, but you don't need detours and demolition of homes and all other stuff related to urbanism like electrical wires, sewers, pipelines and stuff.
> 
> I agree on the second issue, 2x2 lanes is nothing, it should have been 2x5 lanes, like most freeways in Los Angeles. This doesn't look like good future planning to me, especially with the rapid growing suburbs south of Corona and Riverside. (around Temecula).


 Someone mentioned my city?!?!? No way!


----------



## Verso

Tom 958 said:


> Don't get too worked up-- it'll be more impressive than this


Ahaha, add this one.


----------



## Xusein

Billpa said:


> This rant is such crap, I wouldn't even know where to begin.
> The NJ Turnpike was built to get out-of-staters through NJ as quickly as possible. The Garden State is actually quite lovely- but if you never bothered to exit the pike then you'd never know about that- and that's your own fault.
> And as far as the quality of drivers?
> Seriously- drive around Staten Island for a few hours. NYC roads are actually very poor when compared with those in New Jersey.


Indeed. I-80 in the Delaware Water Gap (or whatever it's called) is pretty nice, with those gorges and all. The Turnpike is mixed...I am a fan of the industrial landscapes and the large lanes in North Jersey. :cheers:

However, the part in South Jersey almost made fall asleep once, no lie.


----------



## Xusein

Chriszwolle said:


> I do not disagree with you, by the way, i think it's nonsense to use your car for commuting within New York City (except Staten Island). Mass transit is fairly good. But it's the people from the suburbs, for who mass transit is less of an option. It is always difficult to build the necessary evil of expressways in the central city, while it's used by the suburban population around it.
> 
> Though, even with the huge mass transit they have in New York, the commuting time is the highest among any large metropolitan area in the United States.


For commuters who live outside the city, the best (and most expensive, BTW) is to commute via Public Transport to NYC while keeping their cars for everything else. Commuting by car daily to New York is a hassle, you'd have to have deep pockets and high patience for that.


----------



## Galls

10ROT said:


> For commuters who live outside the city, the best (and most expensive, BTW) is to commute via Public Transport to NYC while keeping their cars for everything else. Commuting by car daily to New York is a hassle, you'd have to have deep pockets and high patience for that.


I think you meant least. 

Peak is still cheaper than gas+parking.

And I have fallen asleep in south jersey, then was smacked in the head.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

10ROT said:


> For commuters who live outside the city, the best (and most expensive, BTW) is to commute via Public Transport to NYC while keeping their cars for everything else. Commuting by car daily to New York is a hassle, you'd have to have deep pockets and high patience for that.


I think New York has one of the most outdated expressways networks of the United States. There is almost no freeway wider than 2x3 lanes, and a lot of those parkways have a bad alignment. Like the Long Island expressway, which is 2x3 all the way (except a section in Nassau Co which is 2x4), but at every exit heading to New York, traffic volumes increase. That's why the New York commuting times are the longest of the U.S. They are 30% longer than traffic jam capital Los Angeles!


----------



## Galls

Chriszwolle said:


> I think New York has one of the most outdated expressways networks of the United States. There is almost no freeway wider than 2x3 lanes, and a lot of those parkways have a bad alignment. Like the Long Island expressway, which is 2x3 all the way (except a section in Nassau Co which is 2x4), but at every exit heading to New York, traffic volumes increase. That's why the New York commuting times are the longest of the U.S. They are 30% longer than traffic jam capital Los Angeles!


To build the amount of lanes that it would take to ease congestion would be so incredably cost prohibative that the thought of doing it should never cross someone's mind. That and it would encourage the sprawl, outpacing our public transportation system, which NYers hate.

The BQE (brooklyn queens expressway) use to be a single lane highway, always backed up, now that it is expanded to "ease" congestion it is still a death trap of congestion. The mantra is pray for me I drive the BQE. Our "outdated" highway system is our blessing, forcing greater investment on public transit which any NYer will argue, right or wrong, leads to a much better quality of life.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Galls said:


> The BQE (brooklyn queens expressway) use to be a single lane highway, always backed up, now that it is expanded to "ease" congestion it is still a death trap of congestion.


Ofcourse it is. A 6 lane freeway in a multimillion city can never handle the amount of traffic such a city generates, especially since the next expressway is far away (I-678 if i'm correct). Besides that, population growth causes more traffic, that's very simple. In the case of New York, it seems pretty clear a mass transit system can never meet transportation demands in such a large city, that's why New Yorkers have the longest average commute in the United States. 

On the other side, centering all work locations on southern and mid Manhattan might also not be a good solution. It means millions of people have to be moved within like 2 hours. Are there any other large working locations in New York besides Manhattan and downtown Brooklyn? (NY City proper)


----------



## Verso

I like it though that NYC doesn't have mega-wide expressways.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I do so too. But to completely wipe out expressway-improvement is crazy. Even if you ban vehicles from southern Manhattan, there are still millions of people living outside that area, which have transportation needs. It's an utopia to think this all (or even partial) transportation demand can be met by mass transit.


----------



## Tom 958

Thanks for the kudos, everyone-- I'm glad you enjoyed it. I've certainly enjoyed the cool things so many others have posted.

I just got home from work-- left at 7:15pm and traffic was still kentucky fried on 285. I took twenty miles of backroads to avoid the Interstates. Only took about 45 minutes, though-- one cycle of the first Clash album. 

Now I have a difficult choice to make: reply to Chriszwolle and Rail Claimore's comments, or forge ahead with part two?


----------



## mgk920

Chriszwolle said:


> Can you explain that? Sounds interesting.


I think that it relates to the _SEVERE_ amount of local government balkanization in that metro area - the actual City of Atlanta is remarkably small (pop - 423K - 2000 USCensus) while the metro area (+/- 3M population) covers oodles of counties and incorporated cities going out at least an hour's drive time in all directions - many of which are in heavy competition against each other for development with a heavy mix of city-suburb animosity mixed in for good measure.

I can only wonder what that area would be like if things were more unified.

hno:

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You mean the individual counties are more interested in the house taxes than a proper functioning city?


----------



## Tom 958

Chriszwolle said:


> You mean the individual counties are more interested in the house taxes than a proper functioning city?


Yes, that's part of it. Another aspect is that sometime around (I think) 1960 Georgia law was changed to allow counties to provide the full range of municipal services. that means that any type of development can happen anywhere.

The way things usually go is that single-family residential development occurs first, and it doesn't bring in enough in taxes to pay the bills, so the affected jurisdictions either have to raise taxes on everyone-- long term residents and newcomers alike-- or attract commercial and industrial development to pay the bills. Or both. Georgia counties are numerous and small and their borders never change, so what happens is that each of them is faced with the task of developing a balanced tax base on a completely arbitrary chunk of land.

One way out would be the imposition of impact fees, by which new development is required to pay a large proportion of the cost of new infrastructure, leaving general revenues free to pay mostly for operations. But that rarely happens because...

The fundamental problems is that land speculators and developers make their money from changes in land use, the more numerous and radical, the better. Local government can be very useful in promoting such changes, so investing a small proportion of their profits in campaign contributions to effect control of local governments is very lucrative. The foxes pay a small tithe in exchange for the power to manage the henhouses. hno:


----------



## Rail Claimore

mgk920 said:


> I think that it relates to the _SEVERE_ amount of local government balkanization in that metro area - the actual City of Atlanta is remarkably small (pop - 423K - 2000 USCensus) while the metro area (+/- 3M population) covers oodles of counties and incorporated cities going out at least an hour's drive time in all directions - many of which are in heavy competition against each other for development with a heavy mix of city-suburb animosity mixed in for good measure.
> 
> I can only wonder what that area would be like if things were more unified.
> 
> hno:
> 
> Mike


It's more complicated and less divisive than that. Georgia gives every county in the state home rule powers, and cities have additional powers as well. But the Atlanta metro area doesn't have many incorporated areas for a metro its size, so with the exception of the city of Atlanta, the vast majority of decisions are made at the county level. In other words, you're dealing with about 20 main units of government, all of which have a lot of power.

It's not advantageous or disadvantageous in comparison with a metro like Houston or Chicago. It's just different.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Garden State Parkway & US 9 near Perth Amboy, New Jersey: 26 lanes across including an unused section of 6 lanes


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's just massive


----------



## Mateusz

And still congested


----------



## ChrisZwolle

MateoW said:


> And still congested


I don't know, the Garden State Pkwy has an AADT of 240.000 there. 20 lanes can accomodate up to 500.000 vehicles a day. Technically it shouldn't be a problem, but it depends on the situation downstream. If the traffic flow disrupts like 2 miles north or south, it can easily jam the bridge, no matter how many lanes you have. 

You have to remember, the Garden State Parkway is the only free-flow road south of Perth Amboy, where over one and a half million people live. Almost the entire New Jersey coastline is more or less urbanized. 

Monmouth County has 635,000 inhabitants, and the southern adjacent Ocean County has 553,000 inhabitants. Further South, there is Atlantic County with Atlantic City which has 253,000 inhabitants. All these counties are connected with this single Parkway.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

This is madness! Do they ever even think about the environment? I mean this is incredible air, noise and visual pollution.


----------



## Timon91

^^Americans don't really care about these problems.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Such a large freeflowing bridge is better for reducing air pollution, than having a jammed one. Like i said, this is the only way out for 1.5 million people towards New York. To be frank, i'm surprised the AADT isn't higher here. (Combined with US 9 about 331,000 vehicles a day).


----------



## Verso

Tom, any fresh (tornado) pics from Atlanta? m))


----------



## Billpa

Here are some Garden State Parkway scenes Just south of that bridge set up...
There's a toll booth shortly after the bridge, in fact, you can see the EZ Pass Only lane markings on one of those pictures Chris posted....Then there's a service area followed by an express/local lane seperation.










A bit farther down there's an outdoor amphitheatre where there are several shows during the warmer months...










There's also New Jersey's Vietnam Memorial, which is quite moving. In the museum there are letters from soldiers to their loved ones written before they were killed...It's sad because in some cases they were written just days before they died. There's a round wall with 366 panels for each day of the year- the names of soldiers who died are on the panels based on the date they were killed. There's a tree in the center of that wall.










Signage for the toll booth.


----------



## Paddington

NJ is like the Houston of the Northeast.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah New Jersey is quite a contrast to New York, while they're both part of the same agglomeration.


----------



## Chris_533976

I gotta say tho that with 26 lanes, why dont they remove 2 of them and chuck a high speed rail or a maglev down the middle of it?

Give people a reasonable alternative to it if its just really a commuter highway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nah, i think the urban area south of New York is too large and not dense enough to serve efficiently with a maglev. 

A common problem with public transportation in these kind of area's is that they are too centered along a few lines, making them not a very good alternative. This one massive bridge doesn't say all that traffic goes the same direction after the bridge. Possibly, it spreads out over various roads, like the 95, 287 and 440, and the GS Pkwy itself. 



> Problems can often occur at residential densities between about two and five. (Floor area ratio) These densities can cause traffic jams for automobiles, yet are too low to be commercially served by trains or light rail systems.


This quote is a common problem in most midsize cities, even in Europe. If you want to serve such a city with extensive rail anyway, it will cost you tremendous amounts of money. This might not be a problem within the New York City proper, but the urban area is so immense, you can't imagine.


----------



## Billpa

Let's give credit where credit is due- New Jersey Transit's North Jersey Coast Line commuter rail runs over another bridge just to the east of the one we've been discussing...Some of you seem to be assuming there's no alternative to what's been shown for local commuters.


----------



## HAWC1506

*Seattle Transportation Projects*

Would anyone like to share information on the conditions of the roads in Washington State? I know I-90 has a very nice stretch of road in central Washington all the way to Spokane. But I-5 through Seattle is just a horror.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

*FM 2258*, I would agree with you if we only consider the existing situation with city planning in America. If, however, from the beginning cities were planned differently allowing people to do all their necessary shopping without a car, then we wouldn't even have this discussion. I lived in Kaliningrad, Kiev, and Dresden - and in all those places I could get around without a car. You visited Italia, right? What do you think about their city designs? And yet, in America all new communities keep being built in a way that forces people to drive cars to do any small thing. 

*Mike*, sorry I drifted this topic astray again


----------



## Paddington

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> *FM 2258*, I would agree with you if we only consider the existing situation with city planning in America. If, however, from the beginning cities were planned differently allowing people to do all their necessary shopping without a car, then we wouldn't even have this discussion. I lived in Kaliningrad, Kiev, and Dresden - and in all those places I could get around without a car. You visited Italia, right? What do you think about their city designs? And yet, in America all new communities keep being built in a way that forces people to drive cars to do any small thing.
> 
> *Mike*, sorry I drifted this topic astray again


Do you ever do anything other than bitch about America? Why don't you go back to Germany, or Russia, or wherever the hell you're from. Because no one here gives 2 shits about what you think. :cheers:


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Paddington said:


> Do you ever do anything other than bitch about America?


Apparently, you are not a frequent visitor in this sub-forum, Herr Paddington? 



> Why don't you go back to Germany, or Russia, or wherever the hell you're from.


I just don't want to go there at this moment. 



> Because no one here gives 2 shits about what you think. :cheers:


I will leave it up to moderators to decide who should give what about whom  I was able to successfully ignore you for quite a long time, and I hope from now on you could do the same. Danke!


----------



## coreyt

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Apparently, you are not a frequent visitor in this sub-forum, Herr Paddington?
> 
> 
> I just don't want to go there at this moment.
> 
> 
> I will leave it up to moderators to decide who should give what about whom  I was able to successfully ignore you for quite a long time, and I hope from now on you could do the same. Danke!


Well said, I hope that Paddington was kidding because the car culture in the US sucks ass. I just studied abroad in Europe and did a fair share of traveling about the continent, and the lack of a car did nothing to hinder my travels. Trains, planes, whatever; everything is connected and everything is efficient and cheap. We Americans sure could learn something from Europeans. I apologize for his typical American ignorance.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

^^ Thanks, but I wouldn't attribute his behaviour to a typical American ignorance because he is rather an exception here. All other American fellow forumers are decent intelligent people on this sub-forum.


----------



## LtBk

Parts of Europe do require a car to get around unfortunately.


----------



## HAWC1506

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> ^^ Thanks, but I wouldn't attribute his behaviour to a typical American ignorance because he is rather an exception here. All other American fellow forumers are decent intelligent people on this sub-forum.


I have your back all the way. I am an American and I would be more than happy to bitch about American transportation issues. I've been in Europe, and yes, I love it there. Do I want to live there? Sure why not. Do I want to criticize my country and hopefully make changes to steer the USA in the right direction? More than happy to.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You guys all talking about Europe 

The difference between US and EU cities, is that European cities tend to be more compact (though that's not always true), allowing for a more extensive commercially feasible public transport. But don't let the shinyness of public transportation blind you. Public Transportation in Europe also requires massive funding by the government, because the price on the ticket you pay is not the real price for moving you around. The only way railways can make a profit is with 1st class ticket payers, and real estate development on the stations. Moving commuters around don't make a profit, because they all travel with discount. Students even travel for free, and guess what, in most places students are the majority of the travellers, so you do the math.

Most profitable are the intercity connections, because they have generally high ridership, also outside of rushhours. But then again, looks can be deceptive, because most trains are shorter (fewer traincars) outside rushhours, making the train always look heavily travelled. 

Another problem is that the cost of the infrastructure construction went sky high in the last 15 years, but the prices of the tickets didn't grow evenly. High Speed Rail in the Netherlands costs over 50 million per kilometer on average. Nearly (and especially) all railway projects went over budget, or opening delayed. The problem is that the cost of labour is very expensive in Western Europe. The construction of the most simple roundabout can cost about 2 - 3 million dollars.


----------



## Billpa

Chris, you're not wrong about what you've said about the true cost of rail- however, while I hear people saying "rail doesn't make a profit", I would hasten to point out that highways don't either. Interstate 95 does not make a profit. It simply exists as a tool for motorists. In fact, at least in the US, we have a lot of infrastructure upgrades that are needed for which there's no money. Just this week a section of 95 in Philly had to be shut because of a huge crack on one of the concrete pillars holding it up. That's just one example.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, that's a major difference between the United States and Europe. In Europe, road taxes are much higher than in the United States, not to mention fuel taxes. All Dutch motorists pay about € 17 billion in road-related taxes per year, though the governments only invests € 2.5 billion a year in roads.


----------



## Billpa

Speaking of that 95 crack...here's some pics:










YIKES!!!










95 Closed in both directions...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Where is that? Is that the elevated section near Philadelphia?


----------



## Billpa

Yes, just north of Center City between Allegheny and Girard.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Hmm there are 8 lanes there with an AADT of 179,000 

That's gonna be problematic.


----------



## Billpa

Here's Penndot's District 6 web cams...click on the ones just north of 676 to see the area affected...

http://www.dot.state.pa.us/penndot/districts/district6.nsf/cam_map2?OpenPage


----------



## phattonez

Chris, since you seem educated on this, what caused the huge spike in infrastructure costs for rail and has it affected roads? 

From what we've seen in the US, any overrun in freeway construction costs are allowable, but once it happens with rail people are all over it. Why the disparity?


----------



## Xusein

Billpa said:


> Speaking of that 95 crack...here's some pics:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YIKES!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 95 Closed in both directions...


That is fucking scary. Thankfully, they closed it before something terrible happens.

This just solidifies my argument even more: our infrastructure, and especially our Interstate Highways, are aging and are in desperate need of repair across the board. I'm surprised that our infrastructure problems (from rail, to electrical grid too) isn't an election issue.


----------



## LtBk

Our politicians don't give a shit about our country.


----------



## TheCat

10ROT said:


> That is fucking scary. Thankfully, they closed it before something terrible happens.
> 
> This just solidifies my argument even more: our infrastructure, and especially our Interstate Highways, are aging and are in desperate need of repair across the board. I'm surprised that our infrastructure problems (from rail, to electrical grid too) isn't an election issue.


Can't agree more, and I think this issue is shared between the US and Canada in some regards. For example, after the 2003 Northeastern Blackout they suddenly realized that the whole Niagara-Mohawk grid (which feeds large parts of Ontario and the Northeastern United States) is extremely outdated and some of the infrastructure in it corresponds to Third World standards. I think that's unacceptable. Each year they threaten people that if they don't conserve and turn off their A/C they will perform rotating blackouts in the Toronto area, which is completely ridiculous, since realistically one knows that domestic conservation is a joke compared to the overall consumption in the grid. These are just all excuses averting the main issue - that we need more raw generating capacity and a modernization of the whole distribution system. But I guess this is somewhat going off-topic. Perhaps someone should start a power infrastructure thread in the Infrastructure and Mobility forum 

But keeping on-topic, the Gardiner Expressway in Toronto is suffering from similar neglect. Parts of it are also cracked and apparently falling apart, and there were a few times recently when blocks of concrete fell from its structure onto the street.


----------



## mgk920

There are two, perhaps three, big reasons why it is so hard to upgrade infrastructure:

1) Nobody wants to pay the higher taxes that such improvements require (only when things get to crisis levels are the changes made - and the volume-based fuel tax doesn't help, either, as inflation renders it impotent and it is often politically impossible to make the periodic adjustments needed to just keep the rate level with inflation)

2) NIMBY! Nobody wants that new highway, high-energy power line, power plant, railroad, etc, built near them, and many NIMBYs have deep political connections and/or the ability to hire the best lawyers needed to keep them unbuilt.

and, perhaps separate from #2 is

3) Enviro-whackos whom feel that any and all infrastructure is a sign of the pure evil of humanity with its audacity to spoil the pristine planet and also often have the money and connections seen in #2.

hno:

Mike


----------



## LtBk

That's what happens when you sprawl a lot. You overstretch you infrastructure and can't repair or replace it because of the people and lack of taxes.


----------



## Yrmom247

Verso said:


> Tom, any fresh (tornado) pics from Atlanta? m))


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZnlpbpVs5Y
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/15611659/detail.html
I recommend the forth video in this link. Ignore her nick name for CNN close to the end though. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPdJah-P0F8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TT013NsSYc&feature=related


----------



## geogregor

LtBk said:


> That's what happens when you sprawl a lot. You overstretch you infrastructure and can't repair or replace it because of the people and lack of taxes.


It has nothing to do with sprawl. Problems with infarastructure update in densly populated places can be exactly the same.
People are scared of new constructions (road, railways, power lines and plants water treatment plants and so on). Those who are not scared just want to protect views from their backyards. Some others just want money.
And some eco wariors just want to return planet to animals.
In many European countries nobody wants to see new power plants for example. But we need them too. 
In densly populated regions you just have more people to worry about


----------



## HAWC1506

And btw, the Federal Highway Trust Fund is running out of money sometime this year. I don't know what happened to all that money we had, but now gas tax isn't enough. Europeans have about 8-9 U.S.-dollars per gallon, and more than 2/3rds of the price of gas itself are tax. So pretty roads do come at a price. 

Also I know this applies to Washington State, but I'm not sure about other states, but the government actually taxes itself on road projects. So a new State Route 520 floating bridge costs around $3.9 billion dollars, and the sales tax on that would be around 196 million dollars. The rule is that the gas tax can only be used for roads, so the state taxes itself on road projects and part of the construction cost is diverted to education/police/medical funds. So that's a waste of gas tax, I really do not support Washington State doing this.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> So pretty roads do come at a price.


Don't forget we have pretty roads, but still pay a lot more than is invested in transportation (of any kind). But i agree American gas tax should increase in order to rehabilitate the infrastructure.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> *Minnesota bridge ordered closed for safety concerns*
> 
> (CNN) -- Officials in Minnesota have closed a major bridge on the Mississippi River, citing safety concerns, the state's transportation department announced Thursday.
> 
> The bridge is about 60 miles northwest of Minneapolis, Minnesota, where the Interstate 35W bridge collapsed August 1, 2007, during the evening rush hour, killing 13 people and injured 145.
> 
> "The bridge will remain closed until it either can be repaired, or if repairs are not possible, until the bridge can be replaced," said acting Transportation Commissioner Bob McFarlin.
> 
> "The safety of the public is our first and foremost concern. We are taking a conservative approach in closing the bridge until we are absolutely sure it is safe for operation," he added.
> 
> A recent inspection showed bending in plates that connect steel beams that support the span.
> 
> The 890-foot-long bridge in St. Cloud, Minnesota, was built in 1957. It carries four lanes of traffic and approximately 31,000 vehicles a day.
> 
> In the weeks after the August collapse, National Transportation Safety Board Chairman Mark Rosenker said investigators observed a "design issue" with the bridge's support plates. He didn't elaborate.
> 
> The state has since launched a statewide bridge inspection program, according to the Minnesota Department of Transportation.


Who remembers the I-40 Webbers Falls, OK incident?


----------



## flierfy

Chriszwolle said:


> That is absolutely not true in most cities. If you say New York or Tokyo, i'd say, okay, but check this out:
> 
> Dutch statistics:
> 
> area:
> railways: 99km2
> main highways: 79km2
> 
> Transportation prestation:
> Railways: 15.5 billion travelkilometers
> Main highways: 68.1 billion travelkilometers
> 
> So the railways consume *25% more* space, while it accumulates in *75% Less kilometers* travelled.
> 
> In other words, the main highways handle *4.4 times* more traffic on *1.2 times* less space than railways
> 
> You do the math about which modality is more space-efficient. Things might be different in the United States, but are never more space-efficient than freeways.
> 
> You also have to remember, the Dutch railways are among the busiest in the world.


This is bollocks what you write there. Of course do roads require much more space to provide the same capacity than rail-bound transportation systems.
The numbers you quote attest the inefficiency of the Dutch railway company at most. However, it doesn't prove your claim.
Roads require more space than any other mode of transportation. It takes a completely new approach to road traffic to overrule this axiom. However, we're nowhere near such a new approach.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ That's nothing about the inefficiency of the railway company, but the fact that outside rushhours, ridership is much lower, thus consuming more space per travelled kilometers. In public transportation, the difference between peak and non-peak hours is larger than on the roads. 

Ofcourse, a 1500 people capacity train that runs 24/7 has a higher capacity, but that isn't just the fact right now, and never will be. Another problem are the trainstations, the platforms cannot handle a high amount of trains.


----------



## flierfy

You confuse capacity with ridership. Just because the Dutch don't use their Railways that much doesn't mean that it couldn't carry them. Railways provide much more capacity than you might think. And Dutch platform aren't much different from platforms in other countries which handle a frequency of up to 40 trains per hour.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

40 trains an hour is absolutely not possible. It means a train stopping every 1,5 minute at each platform. Trains usually stop for 2 - 3 minuten to let everbody out during rushhours, so 40 trains would be physically impossible.

The busiest train tracks have 10 trains an hour. The Dutch railways are very busy, but the scale difference with the motorways is still huge.


----------



## mgk920

HAWC1506 said:


> And btw, the Federal Highway Trust Fund is running out of money sometime this year. I don't know what happened to all that money we had, but now gas tax isn't enough. Europeans have about 8-9 U.S.-dollars per gallon, and more than 2/3rds of the price of gas itself are tax. So pretty roads do come at a price.


The problem with the USA's federal highway trust fund is that it is funded by a volume-based (*NOT* percentage of the price based) tax on fuel that has not been changed since the early 1990s. Inflation has dropped its effective revenue by over half since then. Most state fuel taxes are that way, too, and some states (like Wisconsin - Grrrrr...) are also starting to raid their highway funds to fill general fund deficits.

And it is politically difficult, if not impossible, to change that.

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

US gas taxes are around 47 cents per gallon. That's € 0.30 per gallon, or € 0.08 per liter. In the Netherlands, gas taxes are around € 1 per liter. Hence the difference in budget. 

Well, i don't understand the need to drive in huge pickups, vans or master SUV's. I mean, what's wrong with the European MPV-sized car? That way, you still have a pretty large car, but they are much more fuel efficient.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Chriszwolle said:


> Well, i don't understand the need to drive in huge pickups, vans or master SUV's. I mean, what's wrong with the European MPV-sized car? That way, you still have a pretty large car, but they are much more fuel efficient.


The sales of compact cars have already increased significantly in the USA due to ever-increasing petrol prices. It's hard to change people's mentality though, so the only way they will stop buying huge SUVs is when they realise that they cannot afford these monsters anymore.

My wife told me a funny story that happened to her at a petrol station. She finished pumping petrol, and immediately a man approached her and asked whether she could help him out financially. However, instead of some change, he asked if he could pull his car to my wife's pump and get "some gas". My wife is a very generous person and always helps people in need, but this time she didn't because the man had a ... huge GM SUV  To make the contrast even bigger, I should mention that my wife had a small Corolla at that time.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

^^
Oh that's gold


----------



## flierfy

Chriszwolle said:


> 40 trains an hour is absolutely not possible. It means a train stopping every 1,5 minute at each platform. Trains usually stop for 2 - 3 minuten to let everbody out during rushhours, so 40 trains would be physically impossible.


You don't seem to know what rail-bound system can carry, do you. A train every 90 sec is the very well possible. Trains don't have to stop for 2 min. I suggest you read some literature on that matter.



Chriszwolle said:


> The busiest train tracks have 10 trains an hour. The Dutch railways are very busy, but the scale difference with the motorways is still huge.


Probably not. If they were busy they would run a few more trains.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

flierfy said:


> You don't seem to know what rail-bound system can carry, do you. A train every 90 sec is the very well possible. Trains don't have to stop for 2 min. I suggest you read some literature on that matter.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably not. If they were busy they would run a few more trains.


Well, you seem to know it all so well, why don't you explain to the Dutch railways they should stop shorter? 

Meanwhile, we can discuss US Highways.


----------



## ADCS

Chriszwolle said:


> US gas taxes are around 47 cents per gallon. That's € 0.30 per gallon, or € 0.08 per liter. In the Netherlands, gas taxes are around € 1 per liter. Hence the difference in budget.
> 
> Well, i don't understand the need to drive in huge pickups, vans or master SUV's. I mean, what's wrong with the European MPV-sized car? That way, you still have a pretty large car, but they are much more fuel efficient.


Many people feel unsafe in even smaller SUVs. They like having a taller view of the road. Yes, I know this is very irrational, but take it for what it's worth.


----------



## geogregor

flierfy said:


> You don't seem to know what rail-bound system can carry, do you. A train every 90 sec is the very well possible. Trains don't have to stop for 2 min. I suggest you read some literature on that matter.


It depends if you mean heavy rail or light rail/metro.
But even in busy London Undrground 90 sec is just minimum or even to short. It's simply imposible for normal trains to stop every 90 sec.
Tell me at least one example where trains stop every 90 sec on the same track and same platform?


----------



## Booze

Japan


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ADCS said:


> Many people feel unsafe in even smaller SUVs. They like having a taller view of the road. Yes, I know this is very irrational, but take it for what it's worth.


Hmm, if everybody has a smaller car (and not necessarily a compact or something), this problem wouldn't exist.

I checked some car sale sites in the Netherlands, but nearly all American cars have 3 liter engines or above, even up to 7.2 liters (Chevy Suburban), and also a V8 engine. That's what we put in full sized trucks over here. Those massive cars run like on half or a third than on regular cars in Europe. If all Americans decide to buy smaller cars, everybody can enjoy driving much longer. (you consume less fuel, which is also better for your wallet  )

In the Netherlands, we have a slurptax for extremely fuel-inefficient cars. (usually sports cars and american cars).


----------



## Billpa

HAWC1506 said:


> Also has anyone noticed that most American roads have really thin lane markings?


Especially on the edge- I think many states use a four inch width on regular two lane roads. Not the greatest thing, for sure- but not the end of the world either.


----------



## phattonez

HAWC1506 said:


> And it's not really the best time to raise any taxes at the moment, and I don't really see any prospect of higher gas tax anytime soon.


But people are not paying the actual cost of driving. Infrastructure is degrading quickly and something has to be done. Of course people don't want more taxes, but if they don't want more taxes, then they had better expect their government gifts to start dwindling.


----------



## mgk920

phattonez said:


> Gas tax in the US is pretty pitiful, and what's worse is that we can't get electric cars here. They would be the most efficient (as far as I know) and there's no local pollution. So why is there not more demand for it?


Are you willing to build all of the new power plants and high-energy power lines needed to charge the batteries in a large national fleet of electric cars? Also, effective driving range has been a BIG issue for electric cars, with few ever being able to go more than 100-150 km between charges. Effective highway range on a full tank of fuel in my car is about 800 km.

Mike


----------



## phattonez

Electric cars can go as far, that's really just a myth about them not having as long a range. 

If electric cars are rolled out, let's be serious, it would be done gradually. That would give enough time for the power companies to match up with demand. I don't see why it shouldn't be done. Power companies will upgrade the infrastructure with respect to demand, and the rates will be higher for those who use the most. It's an experiment that definitely needs to be tried, especially in valley/desert cities.


----------



## HAWC1506

phattonez said:


> But people are not paying the actual cost of driving. Infrastructure is degrading quickly and something has to be done. Of course people don't want more taxes, but if they don't want more taxes, then they had better expect their government gifts to start dwindling.


I agree, but certainly not in the current status of the economy...plus the 47 billion dollars that are going overseas to who knows where...


----------



## HAWC1506

Billpa said:


> Especially on the edge- I think many states use a four inch width on regular two lane roads. Not the greatest thing, for sure- but not the end of the world either.


I also noticed that many states only use Bots Dots as their primary lane marker. There's no paint. Once the dot breaks, it's gone so in some sections of I-90 in Washington, the lane markers are...not there. The new highways I see use 4-inch wide paint with _painted_ rumblers. So the paint actually sticks out of the lane marker to form little bumps. Those are much more clear, but seriously, they are still thin. When it's raining, they're just invisible.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

The best motorway marking I observed in Nevada - very thick and wide (~20cm). At the same time, it seems to me that Washington has a problem with road paint that doesn't stay on the pavement for too long. For instance, I-90 has some mountain stretches that don't have any lane marking at all, although the concrete pavement shows an obvious lane division. Also, they widened a highway between Pullman and Moscow right before the winter. Now, the winter is gone... and so is paint :lol: Well, maybe it was a temporary paint, I don't know since I am not a road engineer.


----------



## Billpa

HAWC1506 said:


> I also noticed that many states only use Bots Dots as their primary lane marker. There's no paint..


I know that's the case often in California and Texas, but I can't think of anywhere else where that's the case. I've never actually driven anywhere like that myself, so I have no idea how it works. It doesn't look great in pictures- but I've never been critical because I thought perhaps in practice it might work.


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## Fabisala

Impressive Insterstate highways, are the best


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## sonysnob

Some new Interstate highway photos, this time from Michigan:

I-696 (Michigan's Autobaun):



















I-94:


















I-475:









Myself and my co-webmaster Dan have been working a lot with Michigan photos lately on our website http://www.Canighways.com/MI/. There are lots of high-resolution photos of some of Michigan's large and interesting freeways. Please have a look at our site.


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## phattonez

Billpa said:


> I know that's the case often in California and Texas, but I can't think of anywhere else where that's the case. I've never actually driven anywhere like that myself, so I have no idea how it works. It doesn't look great in pictures- but I've never been critical because I thought perhaps in practice it might work.


That's not true in Southern California.


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## Billpa

phattonez said:


> That's not true in Southern California.


OK, I may be basing that on some older photos...


----------



## phattonez

But there are some places where the paint is completely worthless, like the East LA interchange. It's been painted and repainted so many times that it's hard to tell which ones you should follow. I guess it's a good thing that there's always traffic there.


----------



## HAWC1506

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> The best motorway marking I observed in Nevada - very thick and wide (~20cm). At the same time, it seems to me that Washington has a problem with road paint that doesn't stay on the pavement for too long. For instance, I-90 has some mountain stretches that don't have any lane marking at all, although the concrete pavement shows an obvious lane division. Also, they widened a highway between Pullman and Moscow right before the winter. Now, the winter is gone... and so is paint :lol: Well, maybe it was a temporary paint, I don't know since I am not a road engineer.


Yeah that is true, I've seen some different types of markers used in Washington state, I don't know why they can't keep them consistent.

3 types off the top of my head:

1. Regular paint, often used with bots dots placed on it.
2. A very "glossy" sort of paint that has the painted rumblers. Those come off very easily, especially during winter.
3. Bots dots alone.



Billpa said:


> I know that's the case often in California and Texas, but I can't think of anywhere else where that's the case. I've never actually driven anywhere like that myself, so I have no idea how it works. It doesn't look great in pictures- but I've never been critical because I thought perhaps in practice it might work.


Yeah I can't either, most places use very nice paint, I don't get why many places don't. Bots Dots come off very quickly, especially with heavy truck traffic or winter weather. It's better to see where the lanes are rather than "feel" them. There's a section of State Route 520 that uses both bots dots, reflectors, AND glossy paint with painted rumblers.

Also what really bugs me is the way the paint is removed. Either they "rub" the paint off the road or the paint is so thick that over time it actually punches a hole into the pavement. Either way, once they remove the old paint, there's a very shallow hole (a few millimeters) that is in the place of the removed pavement markings.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This kind of marking is very good:


----------



## Verso

Chriszwolle said:


> In the Netherlands, we have a slurptax


LMAO!



Tom 958 said:


> Add the ever-charming anti-homicide/suicide bridge railing, and surely the apartments in the background charge a hefty premium for such an inspiring view.


Great report again (and yeah, I'm a slow coach too again ). I didn't know these railguards were intended for preventing suicides/murders. Actually, I was never thinking about it.


----------



## HAWC1506

Chriszwolle said:


> This kind of marking is very good:


Yes I like those type of markings. The center dashed lines could be longer though. I don't know if there's a specific purpose to the spacing of the lines, but longer lines and wider spacing gives a calmer look haha, although that would probably lead to increased speeding...I know Washington state has glass beads in their paint to reflect light. I'm not sure if that's the case on the picture you sent me.


----------



## HAWC1506

I also noticed how nicely colored European roads are. Roads in the U.S. seem to always have a very noticeable lighter color where the tires normally travel, does anyone have an explanation of that? Do Europeans use some coloring on their roads?


----------



## OriK

^^^ Here in Spain there are some light gray asphalts too (usually because it's old or it supports heavy traffic), but I've noticed (in photos) that your asphalt is lighter. I haven't seen any US photo with our typical black asphalt.


----------



## hoosier

FM 2258 said:


> Yeah, everything you stated sure is a problem. I wonder what the solution for urban transportation will be in the future. There has to be a way to eliminate traffic but we don't know what the formula is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Walking is the slowest and least efficient form of long distance transportation for humans. That's why people used horses in the past and now cars, trains and airplanes. When I go shopping I don't want to have to carry all my belongings 2 miles from the train station when I get off and hope that no one steals my merchandise. It's much better to put that in your car, lock the doors and get back to your house in 10 minutes instead of 2 hours.
> 
> What's good for the environment is generally bad and very uncomfortable for humans. The environment might like it better if I walked from Miami to Tampa along Interstate 75 but the same environment might kill me. Mosquitoes, alligators, high heat, potential lightning strikes...etc will all attack you during the possible 6 day journey. Contrast putting a human in a car. Very comfortable, nice seats, a/c, relative safety from the weather and maybe a 2 hour trip is much better than walking.


Are you nuts? I am not talking about walking miles to and from a train station every day, nor am I talking about walking from Miami to Tampa. Keep creating those strawmen arguments. I guess you find it enjoyable to sit in endless traffic jams for hours and hours.

Acid rain, cancer, lead and mercury poisoning, toxic waste dumps, air and water pollution, those are things that are bad for both the environment AND humans. You see, humans need a clean environment as much as any other creature- we are organic organisms that still rely on clean air, water, and food to survive, all of which are not possible when we ignore the environment.


----------



## AUchamps

Galls said:


> Atlanta was also the result of extreme racism, most notably MARTA.
> 
> "Moving Africans Rapidly Through Atlanta" Basically the white counties were afraid of decreasing property via "less desirables" moving in.


There's a Black Fear of Whites too. It goes both ways. You think during the deepest days of White Flight that Blacks would've been welcoming of White families that "held their ground" in a given neighborhood?

I can only hope we've passed those days, and with the growing Hispanic population maybe that'll help to bring Blacks and Whites together.


----------



## Billpa

LtBk said:


> Has anybody who drove on Interstates lately notice a difference in lane discipline in different freeways in the same metro area? For example, people drive slow on the left on I-695, our orbital freeway and refuse to move to right most of the time yet on I-83, from Baltimore to Harrisburg, people drive fast and move to the right over 90% of the time after passing.



I can only speak for myself- but on 695 there are times you almost don't want to get too far to the right because you'll be "stuck" there as no one in the left will allow you back over to pass. That's happened to me quite a bit. I believe in lane discipline as much as the next guy, but it's a two-way street. If the faster drivers never let anyone in for a few seconds, people are not going to want to give up their lane.


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## LtBk

It's because MD drivers are dumb as shit.


----------



## hoosier

AUchamps said:


> There's a Black Fear of Whites too. It goes both ways. You think during the deepest days of White Flight that Blacks would've been welcoming of White families that "held their ground" in a given neighborhood?
> 
> I can only hope we've passed those days, and with the growing Hispanic population maybe that'll help to bring Blacks and Whites together.


Well blacks had a reason to be afraid of whites- centuries of slavery and violent racism will make a race distrustful of another.


----------



## [email protected]

Timon Kruijk said:


> I have a question about Alaska. Is it possible to drive from Fairbanks to Valdez in one day? And from Valdez to Anchorage?


It can be done but frankly there's just too much to see to want to do it. Fairbanks-Delta Junction-Glennallan-Valdez is 361 miles. you then have to backtrack to Glennallan to get to Anchorage. Valdez-Anchorage is 263 miles. 
Big state, big distances !
And no divided highways. Its all wide 2 lane.


----------



## mgk920

[email protected] said:


> It can be done but frankly there's just too much to see to want to do it. Fairbanks-Delta Junction-Glennallan-Valdez is 361 miles. you then have to backtrack to Glennallan to get to Anchorage. Valdez-Anchorage is 263 miles.
> Big state, big distances !
> And no divided highways. Its all wide 2 lane.


Well, it is four lanes interstate compatible (unmarked I-routes, in fact) in the Anchorage area, mainly the Glenn Highway (AK 1) from Palmer to Anchorage and then the Seward Highway (AK 1) through part of the city.

Mike


----------



## Timon91

[email protected] said:


> It can be done but frankly there's just too much to see to want to do it. Fairbanks-Delta Junction-Glennallan-Valdez is 361 miles. you then have to backtrack to Glennallan to get to Anchorage. Valdez-Anchorage is 263 miles.
> Big state, big distances !
> And no divided highways. Its all wide 2 lane.


I just won't have enought time to see everything. I will spend a few days in Denali, and I will visit the arctic circle on the Dalton. Furthermore, I will also be a few days in Valdez. 
Anyway, I have seen a few pics of Alaskan highways. Because it is so quiet, there will be no traffic jams, so I'm not to worried about that. I'm also aware of the distances, they are really huge!


----------



## [email protected]

mgk920 said:


> Well, it is four lanes interstate compatible (unmarked I-routes, in fact) in the Anchorage area, mainly the Glenn Highway (AK 1) from Palmer to Anchorage and then the Seward Highway (AK 1) through part of the city.
> 
> Mike


Mike. you are right of course. I had forgotten about the main roads out of Anchorage. Thanks.


----------



## crieffite[email protected]

Timon Kruijk said:


> Yeah, I know. I hope to make a one-day organized tour from Fairbanks to the Arctic Circle (with most of the rented cars it's not allowed to go on unpaved roads, unless you hire a 4×4). If I do that, I will of course try to make some nice pics.


Timon that clause about not driving on unpaved roads is almost entirely ignored in AK. you wouldnt get anywhere. hell visiting friends just off the main highways involves driving on gravel roads.
A few years ago I drove Fairbanks-Tok-Dawson City in a rented WHITE Ford Escort. The section from Tok to Boundary on the Yukon border is mostly
unpaved and the soil is a rich red colour.It rained most of the way for good measure. By the time I reached Dawson City the car was red up to the tops of the windows ! Luckily, I found a car wash in Dawson !
Verso the Dalton is paved I believe as far as the Yukon river bridge.


----------



## Timon91

^^Anyway, I didn't really have plans to leave the main routes. I will take a bus into Denali, and I will go on a van tour on the Dalton (which is btw, 100% unpaved, as far as I know), and I will make a small trip on the Prince William Sound near Valdez by boat, if that is possible, so I don't need to break that rule (btw, I will drive in a Chevrolet Aveo)


----------



## HAWC1506

So can anyone say for sure whether or not the U.S. as a whole has bad highways?

Also, this is a picture of I-90 in central Washington:









and


----------



## geogregor

US has great highway system. Of course there are worse (north east) and better (south east) parts but most countries have some worse highways.

Comparing with Europe driving in US is real fun. Roads are generally wider, people drive slower and less hectic (apart from few metropolitan areas like NYC or LA).
By comparison roads in UK are so narrow, you almost touch mirrors when passing other vehicles. Only motorways and some dual carriageway roads are wide enough.
I don't even mention expensive French or Italian motorways and narrow roads apart from motorways.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

geogregor said:


> Comparing with Europe driving in US is real fun.


Let's say it is a very subjective opinion  Long distances and wide roadways do not necessarily mean "fun to drive".


----------



## LtBk

Or being stuck behind some dumbass doing 55mph or less on the left who refuses to move over.


----------



## HAWC1506

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Let's say it is a very subjective opinion  Long distances and wide roadways do not necessarily mean "fun to drive".


I think driving on the Autobahn is more fun than any road in the U.S. Of course, I'm talking about when the Autobahn has relatively low traffic.

Anyways, aren't there states that made it illegal to stay in the passing lane? I know Washington has repeatedly tried to pass the proposal but failed. Damn politicians...

Here is an excerpt from Washington law, created in 1986:

(2) Upon all roadways having two or more lanes for traffic moving in the same direction, all vehicles shall be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic, except (a) when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction, (b) when traveling at a speed greater than the traffic flow, (c) when moving left to allow traffic to merge, or (d) when preparing for a left turn at an intersection, exit, or into a private road or driveway when such left turn is legally permitted. On any such roadway, a vehicle or combination over ten thousand pounds shall be driven only in the right-hand lane except under the conditions enumerated in (a) through (d) of this subsection.

(4) It is a traffic infraction to drive continuously in the left lane of a multilane roadway when it impedes the flow of other traffic.

The law does not specifically state that it is illegal to drive in the left lane. In fact, it says it is only an infraction when it impedes the flow of other traffic. So yes doing 55 on the left can get you a ticket. However, it is not illegal to drive on the left lane when the other lanes are wide open.

Shows the stupidity of American politicians.


----------



## geogregor

HAWC1506 said:


> I think driving on the Autobahn is more fun than any road in the U.S.* Of course, I'm talking about when the Autobahn has relatively low traffic.*


Low traffic on German highways it means almost never 
I really don't understand all this fuzz about Autobahns. Some of them mostly renovated stretches in east Germany are great but most of the older ones (and there are plenty of them) have just two lanes in each direction, 
Exits are every mile which are mostly design that you have to slow to 30km/h to be able to take them safely. 
Many Motorways junction are just cloverleaf. 
Trucks because of strict regulation are painfully slow and there are plenty of them.
In my opinion British motorways have much better standard. Most of them have three lanes in each direction, better profiled junctions and so on.
So if you think that driving German Autobahns is fun I propose British Motorways. Problem is that both countries have serious problem with congestion.
In US congestion mostly applies to urban areas. In Germany even relatively rural motorways carry heavy traffic. Of course there are few exception but I really prefer good Interstate than most of autobahns.


----------



## HAWC1506

geogregor said:


> Low traffic on German highways it means almost never
> I really don't understand all this fuzz about Autobahns. Some of them mostly renovated stretches in east Germany are great but most of the older ones (and there are plenty of them) have just two lanes in each direction,
> Exits are every mile which are mostly design that you have to slow to 30km/h to be able to take them safely.
> Many Motorways junction are just cloverleaf.
> Trucks because of strict regulation are painfully slow and there are plenty of them.
> In my opinion British motorways have much better standard. Most of them have three lanes in each direction, better profiled junctions and so on.
> So if you think that driving German Autobahns is fun I propose British Motorways. Problem is that both countries have serious problem with congestion.
> In US congestion mostly applies to urban areas. In Germany even relatively rural motorways carry heavy traffic. Of course there are few exception but I really prefer good Interstate than most of autobahns.


Yup notice I said "of course I'm talking about *when* the Autobahn has relatively low traffic." When it does have low traffic (mainly only possible in rural areas, with no speed limits for some parts) then Autobahn is beyond the driving experience of any interstate. Bigger isn't always better. In some areas, I think the interstates are very badly configured. Exits on the left, cloverleaf exchanges, short distances between exits, onramps before a freeway-freeway interchange, etc.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*[USA] United States Interstate Highways # II*

*previous thread*


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*New thread*

This one will be closed because of it's size. (over 1000 posts). Further discussions can be continued in the new thread.


----------



## HAWC1506

By KOMO Staff










SEATTLE -- Big changes are ahead on Interstate 5 in Seattle.

The Department of Transportation is planning to put in variable speed signs along the roadway which means depending on traffic flow, the signs will drop the speed limit from 60 mph to 30.

Seattle could become the first in the country to use the new speed signs which are slated to be up and running by late next year, according to the DOT. The idea came from Europe, where some countries have been using them since the 1980s.

After the new signs are installed, the speed limit could change as often as every hour. The DOT says the flexibility will help ease congestion and prevent accidents when the Alaskan Way Viaduct is taken down.

Traffic engineers also say varying the speed limit will help traffic flow better, even if it means drivers have to slow down to 30 mph.

"When you try to put too much traffic all at once through a congested area, it really brings things to a halt," said engineer Patty Rubstell. "So when you can manage traffic more efficiently and bring them in slower, you can get more through."

The signs will be installed only in the northbound lanes between Boeing Field and the I-90 interchange. The DOT plans to install 12 to 16 signs along the stretch of the roadway heading into Seattle.

The cost of the project is $25 million, making it a tough sell for some drivers.

"Slowing the traffic down to 30 is precisely the reason I sometimes take side roads, because traffic is already slowed down to 30 mph," said driver Nick Huntington.

"It seems necessary to them (officials)," said driver Steve Massee. "Every year I get property tax increases. Now I know where the money goes."

The DOT believes it's money well spent. They hope drivers will agree once they see the benefits first-hand.

"It is a lot of money, but it's a lot of signs," said Rubstell "It's new technology that needs to go in and it's a complex area through Seattle."

Highway engineers plan to implement variable speed limits to the 405 interchange with I-5 in Tukwila as well as in Lynnwood.


----------



## TheCat

^^ About time. They should have these variable speed signs on all highways in the US and Canada.


----------



## FM 2258

I don't see the point of variable speed signs. It's a freeway and they should just raise all speed limits to 85mph for cars and trucks. Rural freeways should have no speed limit for cars/light trucks and 85mph for heavy trucks. 

60mph is way too slow for a freeway in my opinion.


----------



## HAWC1506

FM 2258 said:


> I don't see the point of variable speed signs. It's a freeway and they should just raise all speed limits to 85mph for cars and trucks. Rural freeways should have no speed limit for cars/light trucks and 85mph for heavy trucks.
> 
> 60mph is way too slow for a freeway in my opinion.


I agree, these shouldn't be used to control congestion, but should instead be used for weather-related issues/other cautions only. The argument they have is to bring traffic in slower so cars don't pile up quickly. Well if the speed limit was raised, they could get traffic through faster too. I think this is money going to waste. It's a good concept, but a bad execution.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

^^
The faster traffic goes, the faster it enters congestion, the harder it brakes, the bigger the jam......


----------



## gladisimo

^^ By that rationale, we should just sit at home all day,lol.

Anyhow, I don't know if the benefits justify the cost. I would think that the traffic flow would dictate speed limits anyhow, unless they use it in a precautionary means, which would piss me off. 

If the road slowed down to 30, I might as well take other roads.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

We use the system in the Netherlands very extensive, and with good results. It's a way to control a traffic jam, and warning upcoming traffic that a traffic jam is ahead, resulting in fewer accidents, which eventually worsen the T-jam. 

Sometimes, it's better to have a variable speed limit, what is often see in Germany, is, that in otherwise quiet freeways, which sometimes have heavy traffic, some people still try to drive 160km/h in busy traffic. With variable speed limits, this kind of traffic jam/sluggish traffic encouraging behaviour can be avoided. 

The traffic flow is the best when people drive more or less the same speed.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

^^ Will they use a European style for speed limit signs? Would be awesome. On mountain stretches of I-90 they already have variable speed limits, but those are just textual signs saying "Speed limit XX", and they only depend on weather conditions (rain, snow, ice, etc)










I think that slowing down traffic on a motorway when approaching a traffic congestion could be done by displaying this sign







, and not by changing the speed limit.


----------



## Xusein

FM 2258 said:


> I don't see the point of variable speed signs. It's a freeway and they should just raise all speed limits to 85mph for cars and trucks. Rural freeways should have no speed limit for cars/light trucks and 85mph for heavy trucks.
> 
> 60mph is way too slow for a freeway in my opinion.


With gasoline and diesel hitting records daily, I don't see this ever happening.

In fact, I think if these records continue in the future, the opposite will happen, like it did in the seventies. I believe that, if gas ever hits $4 or so, the government will lower speed limits. 

I heard something here in my state about a state senator pushing to lower the speed limit back to 55 mph (~90 km/h). Until the late 1990s, this was the speed limit in Connecticut, one of the lowest in the country. The bill died, but I think as gas prices continue to rise, these bills will be more common in the future.

BTW: I noticed that truck drivers here in Connecticut are driving a lot slower than they used to before. Then again...they are trying to conserve cost. Some stations are selling diesel close to $4.40/gal ($1.16/liter) now. :shocked:


----------



## FM 2258

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> I think that slowing down traffic on a motorway when approaching a traffic congestion could be done by displaying this sign
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , and not by changing the speed limit.


I think seeing a sea of bright red brake lights works well for me. It would be redundant if there was a sign noting congestion ahead. Going into San Antonio on south Interstate 35 there is an electronic sign that flashes "congestion ahead" and it does nothing for you because as you're slowing down seeing that sign flashing you think to yourself "no shit, thanks for the reminder!!!" 



10ROT said:


> With gasoline and diesel hitting records daily, I don't see this ever happening.
> 
> In fact, I think if these records continue in the future, the opposite will happen, like it did in the seventies. I believe that, if gas ever hits $4 or so, the government will lower speed limits.
> 
> I heard something here in my state about a state senator pushing to lower the speed limit back to 55 mph (~90 km/h). Until the late 1990s, this was the speed limit in Connecticut, one of the lowest in the country. The bill died, but I think as gas prices continue to rise, these bills will be more common in the future.
> 
> BTW: I noticed that truck drivers here in Connecticut are driving a lot slower than they used to before. Then again...they are trying to conserve cost. Some stations are selling diesel close to $4.40/gal ($1.16/liter) now. :shocked:


I think lower speed limits will be costly for everyone because more people would be pulled over. I find it sad when a state of the art Interstate has the same speed limit as a farm road or a city street. Some freeways in San Antonio have a speed limit of 50mph but who in the hell would drive 50mph on a freeway? As for car efficiency I don't think because a car is driving slower it's more efficient. Cars differ in their speed vs. fuel efficiency.

Even with the way gas prices are these days I still drive over the speed limit when I feel like it. Seeing a 55 speed limit sign out in the desert would do absolutely nothing more than frustrate me. If I want to burn more gas driving faster I'd rather be the judge of that, not the U.S. or state government.


----------



## Xusein

I would like speed limits to go up too, however, I don't see it happening now of all times.


----------



## HAWC1506

10ROT said:


> I would like speed limits to go up too, however, I don't see it happening now of all times.


Amen, I think we should just follow Germany and have a recommended speed limit.

But then, the U.S. drivers ed program is such a joke I don't think high speeds will be safe for everyone. Get the grannies out of the passing lane first, then we can start talking about raising limits.


----------



## hoosier

FM 2258 said:


> I think seeing a sea of bright red brake lights works well for me. It would be redundant if there was a sign noting congestion ahead. Going into San Antonio on south Interstate 35 there is an electronic sign that flashes "congestion ahead" and it does nothing for you because as you're slowing down seeing that sign flashing you think to yourself "no shit, thanks for the reminder!!!"
> 
> 
> 
> I think lower speed limits will be costly for everyone because more people would be pulled over. I find it sad when a state of the art Interstate has the same speed limit as a farm road or a city street. Some freeways in San Antonio have a speed limit of 50mph but who in the hell would drive 50mph on a freeway? As for car efficiency I don't think because a car is driving slower it's more efficient. Cars differ in their speed vs. fuel efficiency.
> 
> Even with the way gas prices are these days I still drive over the speed limit when I feel like it. Seeing a 55 speed limit sign out in the desert would do absolutely nothing more than frustrate me. If I want to burn more gas driving faster I'd rather be the judge of that, not the U.S. or state government.



No one is forcing you to go the speed limit. But if you are caught going over it, then you deserve a punishment. Go ahead and be an idiot and burn more fuel, no one is stopping you.

And yes, engines burn more gas at higher speeds, so driving faster increases fuel consumption. That is an incontrovertible fact.

Freeways have more cars using them and thus have greater congestion, meaning vehicles cannot drive at 90 mph all the time on them.

And the signs warning of congestion often are placed in advance of the actual bottleneck to warn motorists so they don't have to slam on their breaks and endanger the flow of traffic.


----------



## hoosier

HAWC1506 said:


> "It seems necessary to them (officials)," said driver Steve Massee. "Every year I get property tax increases. Now I know where the money goes."


That guy is a fucking retard. Property taxes don't pay for projects on state and federal highways, fuel taxes do.


----------



## HAWC1506

hoosier said:


> That guy is a fucking retard. Property taxes don't pay for projects on state and federal highways, fuel taxes do.


Haha I didn't notice that in the article. I think I've mentioned this before though. Washington State taxes itself on construction projects. So the gas tax dollars that are used to fund construction projects are actually taxed, and the tax goes to other general funds not related to transportation, like schools, healthcare, police/fire, etc. Some people don't support this (republicans), but the democrats are actually fighting to keep this "double-tax." What a waste of fuel tax...


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

FM 2258 said:


> I think seeing a sea of bright red brake lights works well for me. It would be redundant if there was a sign noting congestion ahead. Going into San Antonio on south Interstate 35 there is an electronic sign that flashes "congestion ahead" and it does nothing for you because as you're slowing down seeing that sign flashing you think to yourself "no shit, thanks for the reminder!!!"


I can't believe you have never experienced a situation where you bump into an unexpected traffic jam and have to use emergency braking not to slam into a car in front of you. In California it happened quite often. "Sea of red light" may not be enough to warn you that you have to start braking RIGHT NOW, and a lot of rear-end collisions happen because people underestimate the speed difference between them and a traffic jam ahead. In Germany, for instance, those who spot traffic jam early turn on their emergency lights to warn vehicles behind to be prepared to slow down or stop. I do it regularly, but in the USA I have seen others doing it only 3 times in 7 years. 

As for the warning sign, like hoosier said, it would be displayed ahead of the congestion and would show an approximate distance to it.


----------



## LtBk

hoosier said:


> No one is forcing you to go the speed limit. But if you are caught going over it, then you deserve a punishment. Go ahead and be an idiot and burn more fuel, no one is stopping you.
> 
> And yes, engines burn more gas at higher speeds, so driving faster increases fuel consumption. That is an incontrovertible fact.
> 
> Freeways have more cars using them and thus have greater congestion, meaning vehicles cannot drive at 90 mph all the time on them.
> 
> And the signs warning of congestion often are placed in advance of the actual bottleneck to warn motorists so they don't have to slam on their breaks and endanger the flow of traffic.


We waste lot of gas anyway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

10ROT said:


> BTW: I noticed that truck drivers here in Connecticut are driving a lot slower than they used to before. Then again...they are trying to conserve cost. Some stations are selling diesel close to $4.40/gal ($1.16/liter) now. :shocked:



Netherlands:

Diesel: $ 1.86/liter -> $ 7 gallon
Gas: $ 2.4/liter -> $ 9.1/gallon

You guys still have a long way to go 

And nobody in the Netherlands is driving slower or less to compensate for high fuel prices.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

10ROT said:


> BTW: I noticed that truck drivers here in Connecticut are driving a lot slower than they used to before. Then again...they are trying to conserve cost. Some stations are selling diesel close to $4.40/gal ($1.16/liter) now. :shocked:



Netherlands:

Diesel: $ 1.86/liter -> $ 7 gallon
Gas: $ 2.4/liter -> $ 9.1/gallon

You guys still have a long way to go 

And nobody in the Netherlands is driving slower or less to compensate for high fuel prices.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

^^
It's a far cry from 8 years ago when petrol (in the US) was 1/4 of the price as in Holland. Proportionately the increases in the US have been far higher than in Europe.


----------



## Xusein

LOL. 8 years ago, you could have filled a car for less than $20!

Now, it would cost almost 50 dollars.


----------



## phattonez

Increased speed limit means more maintenance, and the gas taxes aren't high enough for that. It'll never happen unless we change our thinking in this country.


----------



## Galls

hoosier said:


> That guy is a fucking retard. Property taxes don't pay for projects on state and federal highways, fuel taxes do.




Gas tax only pays for %60 of the interstate system, it is not completely paid for by user fees. Even then they still want to raise the federal tax $.40 per gallon to pay for deferred maintenance.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Seeing how the majority of the US population is against new petrol taxes, I think the alternative would be introducing vignettes or other methods of payment.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't see the use why normal cars need 3L engines anyway. They only consume more fuel. I have a 1.4 L hatchback, and you can drive perfectly fine with that. If you want more power, you can get a 1.8 or 2 liter engine, but ofcourse, bigger engines are available too. 

If i check a car sales site, i see the average Buick has a 3.8 L engine. Older type Cadillacs even have a 4.5 L engine, or above. Chrysler is doing a bit better with an average 2.7 L engine. Older Fords also have a 4.0 L engine. 

These are usually sedans or small SUV's. I mean, what's the use of putting a 3.8 Liter engine in a sedan? 

If you drive cars with a smaller engine, say somewhere between 1.3 and 2.0, you can perhaps save half the costs of fueling, without having much difference in driving on the freeway or urban roads.


----------



## HAWC1506

Chriszwolle said:


> I don't see the use why normal cars need 3L engines anyway. They only consume more fuel. I have a 1.4 L hatchback, and you can drive perfectly fine with that. If you want more power, you can get a 1.8 or 2 liter engine, but ofcourse, bigger engines are available too.
> 
> If i check a car sales site, i see the average Buick has a 3.8 L engine. Older type Cadillacs even have a 4.5 L engine, or above. Chrysler is doing a bit better with an average 2.7 L engine. Older Fords also have a 4.0 L engine.
> 
> These are usually sedans or small SUV's. I mean, what's the use of putting a 3.8 Liter engine in a sedan?
> 
> If you drive cars with a smaller engine, say somewhere between 1.3 and 2.0, you can perhaps save half the costs of fueling, without having much difference in driving on the freeway or urban roads.


A 2.0L Turbo Diesel VW is suh-weet with crazy gas mileage  Automakers are starting to notice that bigger isn't always better now. I believe GM's Cadillac CTS does not offer a V8, but only a V6 that has the performance of a V8. To be specific, it's a 3.6L Direct Injection V6 that produces 304 horsepower. Of course that is one of the higher end vehicles and I believe Cadillac is making the right decision by not offering a V8. Lower-end vehicles like GM's redesigned Chevy Malibu offers a 2.4L 4-cylinder with 169 hp. I say that's sufficient for everyday driving.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

169 hp is still a lot. I have a 65 hp car, and have no problem getting around with traffic. However, it's not a very fast car, and i rather have a 80/90 hp car. I refueled today, and i did 35 miles on one gallon of petrol. How about that.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Chris got a point - no sedans need an engine larger than 2 litres. I used to have a 1.3L hatchback, and although its speedometer ended at 140 km/h, it could easily drive faster than that.


----------



## HAWC1506

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Chris got a point - no sedans need an engine larger than 2 litres. I used to have a 1.3L hatchback, and although its speedometer ended at 140 km/h, it could easily drive faster than that.


How does it do on hills and snow?


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

HAWC1506 said:


> How does it do on hills and snow?


I don't know about the snow because there was no snow in California  As for the hills (mountains really), it had enough power (65 hp) to get from Sacramento to Reno via Donner Pass (2,203 m) in exactly the same time as my current car (145hp).


----------



## Xusein

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Seeing how the majority of the US population is against new petrol taxes, I think the alternative would be introducing vignettes or other methods of payment.


Here, our fuel taxes are going up in July...the sales tax of fuel is going up from 7% to 7.5%. Not much of a difference (just two more cents), but the public really can't do much about it. The government won't be shelving it because they would lose almost $25 million from this, and our budget surplus is shrinking.

Connecticut will have a total fuel tax of 64.3 cents/gal. Not much compared to most places in the world, but it may be the highest in the nation come July. Surprisingly, our gas prices are not the highest (although among the highest in the East Coast and over 25 cents higher than Massachusetts)...so this time around, it's not the taxes that's making prices go up for once


----------



## FM 2258

Chriszwolle said:


> I don't see the use why normal cars need 3L engines anyway. They only consume more fuel. I have a 1.4 L hatchback, and you can drive perfectly fine with that. If you want more power, you can get a 1.8 or 2 liter engine, but ofcourse, bigger engines are available too.
> 
> If i check a car sales site, i see the average Buick has a 3.8 L engine. Older type Cadillacs even have a 4.5 L engine, or above. Chrysler is doing a bit better with an average 2.7 L engine. Older Fords also have a 4.0 L engine.
> 
> These are usually sedans or small SUV's. I mean, what's the use of putting a 3.8 Liter engine in a sedan?
> 
> If you drive cars with a smaller engine, say somewhere between 1.3 and 2.0, you can perhaps save half the costs of fueling, without having much difference in driving on the freeway or urban roads.







Bigger engines are supposed to help men get laid by more women and hotter women. All a man really needs to get around these days is a small motor bike or hatchback car but to really impress the ladies he'd rather get a 12 cylinder 6.0 L vehicle that roars and rumbles and has all the comforts of home inside. 

Humans like to have power in their hands although it doesn't make sense to have it all the time. Cost saving and fuel efficiency is not sexy.


Lame but efficient: 


















Cool but wasteful is the name of the game:


----------



## Xusein

^ Wow. Do people still think driving an Excursion is cool?


----------



## HAWC1506

I'd hate to be driving a Smart and getting into an accident with a Tahoe/Excursion...Well I guess the speed limit here would be beneficial to my safety if I were in the Smart...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, a Smart is completely the opposite of an SUV, like black and white. There is a whole grey area inbetween. Like, sedans, hatchbacks, stationwagons, MPV's, etc. 

I would never drive in a Smart, indeed too dangerous in an accident, especially with trucks.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Pretty large Pano, i think it's the 605 in the center.









105/110 interchange









110 near downtown


----------



## phattonez

That last picture is not near downtown, it is downtown.

And that pano pic really focuses on on the 210 and the 2. It's kinda hard to make out the other freeways there.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

phattonez said:


> And that pano pic really focuses on on the 210 and the 2. It's kinda hard to make out the other freeways there.


Alright, i already had that feeling that the freeway was too close to downtown (the 605 is further east).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-12 during hurricane Katrina:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The East LA Interchange has 444,400 vehicles a day. (5 directions accumulated divided by 2.5)

Latest 405 traffic volume is still 390,000 vehicles a day, with a peak of 417,000 vehicles a day. Peak hour has 28,000 vehicles, which is 14 lanes filled to capacity (the 405 has 12 lanes there). In 2003, that was 382,000 vehicles a day, an increase of 8,000 vehicles in 4 years or an average of 2,000 vehicles a year, which is only 0.5%, very low.


----------



## phattonez

What is responsible for such low increase in traffic along that corridor?


----------



## mgk920

phattonez said:


> What is responsible for such low increase in traffic along that corridor?


I would think that it is because it is operating at its throughput limit.

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Indeed, and the area almost completely build-up, so there's no room for new development which generates new traffic. Orange county is also quite full. 390,000 vehicles on 12 lanes means the freeway is operating 15 hours a day at it's capacity, which is extremely high.


----------



## FM 2258

Chriszwolle said:


> The East LA Interchange has 444,400 vehicles a day. (5 directions accumulated divided by 2.5)
> 
> Latest 405 traffic volume is still 390,000 vehicles a day, with a peak of 417,000 vehicles a day. Peak hour has 28,000 vehicles, which is 14 lanes filled to capacity (the 405 has 12 lanes there). In 2003, that was 382,000 vehicles a day, an increase of 8,000 vehicles in 4 years or an average of 2,000 vehicles a year, which is only 0.5%, very low.


That's interesting. You can only fit so many cars which is pretty much what *mgk920* pointed out. I wonder what the real solution is then. There has to be a way to eliminate traffic in big cities and make it so that everyone can get to their destinations quickly and efficiently.


----------



## phattonez

It seems kind of hard to believe to me that with all the new development in the Antelope Valley that traffic on the 405 would not be increasing too much. Most of those people are commuters, and they'll probably either work in the SFV, the Westside, or downtown/Hollywood. Are these people just not driving at peak hours?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ We're talking about the 405 section near Seal Beach here. That's pretty much too far south for commuting from the Antelope Valley or the Inland Empire.


----------



## phattonez

Oh, I thought we were talking about the 405 through West LA. I don't know much about traffic down there near Seal Beach, but I've always thought that the 405 through West LA was the most congested. And now the traffic along there is going to increase with the widening from the 91 to the 101 (roughly).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The 405 in Westside and around Sepulveda Pass isn't as busy as many think, the busiest point is near Santa Monica Blvd with 308,000 AADT. The volumes around Mulholland Drive are around 270,000 - 280,000 vehicles a day. That means, the capacity is fully taken during 14 hours a day. That's still pretty much.

The problem i think with the 405 is that there are very few alternatives between the San Fernando Valley, and the suburbs up to Ventura along the 101, towards the Westside and job locations around LAX. All traffic has to cross the Santa Monica Mountains, and the only reasonable way to do that is the 405, and maybe the 101 if you need to go to downtown.

The 5 is being widened, because it has only 6 lanes, and is a major bottleneck. The problem is the connecting roads (the 10 and 91) cannot take any more traffic. There is usually a long traffic jam outbound (westbound) on the 10 from Downtown during the morning rushhour, which is quite remarkable, since most TJ's tend to be focussed towards downtown and around higher ed job locations in O.C.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

San Antonio is one of the least known major cities outside the USA. It has 1.3 million inhabitants, and is located in Southern Texas. 

I-10 in San Antonio









I-410 in San Antonio










Interchange in San Antonio


----------



## HAWC1506

Chriszwolle said:


> San Antonio is one of the least known major cities outside the USA. It has 1.3 million inhabitants, and is located in Southern Texas.


Do you mean "one of the least known major cities inside the USA"?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I said outside. 

San Antonio is not well known, like New York, Los Angeles or Houston, in Europe. Maybe it's also not wellknown inside the USA as a major (pop 1,000,000+) city.


----------



## hoosier

Chriszwolle said:


> I said outside.
> 
> San Antonio is not well known, like New York, Los Angeles or Houston, in Europe. Maybe it's also not wellknown inside the USA as a major (pop 1,000,000+) city.


No, it is well known. Its NBA team, the Spurs, have won 4 championships over the past decade, and the Alamo is located in the center city, which was the site of a famous battle in the war for Texan independence.


----------



## TheCat

Chriszwolle said:


> I said outside.
> 
> San Antonio is not well known, like New York, Los Angeles or Houston, in Europe. Maybe it's also not wellknown inside the USA as a major (pop 1,000,000+) city.


Hehe, like HAWC1506, I was also confused by your introduction at first. He meant that it sounds like you are saying that San Antonio is not inside the United States  "... by people outside the USA" would be clearer


----------



## Galls

hoosier said:


> No, it is well known. Its NBA team, the Spurs, have won 4 championships over the past decade, and the Alamo is located in the center city, which was the site of a famous battle in the war for Texan independence.



And might I ad, from the pictures, it looks like a fabulous place to live.:lol:


----------



## HAWC1506

TheCat said:


> Hehe, like HAWC1506, I was also confused by your introduction at first. He meant that it sounds like you are saying that San Antonio is not inside the United States  "... by people outside the USA" would be clearer


Haha now I don't feel like a loner. Glad we got that figured out haha


----------



## xzmattzx

For anyone interested, I-95 is being widened here in Delaware between exits 4 (Delaware Route 1) and 5 (I-295) from 4 lanes to 5 lanes. The widening is to account for the massive amount of traffic where I-95 and I-295 (New Jersey Turnpike traffic) split or merge, depending on the direction. Commuters from places like Bear and Middletown take Delaware Route 1 up to I-95, then take I-95 into Wilmington, and so the combination of inter-state traffic and commuters has made this project the #1 priority road project in Delaware.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Any plans to extend that SR-1 tollway further south than Dover?


----------



## mgk920

Chriszwolle said:


> Any plans to extend that SR-1 tollway further south than Dover?


(fantasy mode = ON)
Heck, why not build a bridge-tunnel crossing between Lewes, DE and Cape May, NJ?
(fantasy mode = OFF)

Mike


----------



## Nexis

mgk920 said:


> (fantasy mode = ON)
> Heck, why not build a bridge-tunnel crossing between Lewes, DE and Cape May, NJ?
> (fantasy mode = OFF)
> 
> Mike


In your Dreams Gov. Corzine wants to close 8 state Parks and sell the states major tollways to Major Coporate owners to close the budget gap. I don't he'll ive want to think on spending between 1 to 9 billion on a bridge-tunnel between Delaware & Southern New Jersey.


----------



## Xusein

He was kidding, I believe.


----------



## xzmattzx

Chriszwolle said:


> Any plans to extend that SR-1 tollway further south than Dover?


Yes, although no formal plans for construction have been made so far. It shouldn't be too hard to do, since Route 1 from Dover AFB to Milford is a surface highway with very few cross-streets; the only problem is giving access to other roads for the few people that live on Route 1. These plans really hinge on the building of the Route 113 expressway from Milford south to the maryland line, though.

I actually mentioned this Route 113 project in the non-Interstate thread a couple weeks ago. It wouldn't be an Interstate or anything, so I put it in there with other non-Interstate expressway projects in Delaware.

I should clarify that when I said that I-95 is being expanded from 4 to 5 lanes, I meant that it was adding that lane in both directions. It will go from a total of 8 lanes to 10 lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some traffic reports are quite funny.



> US 101 North at Highland Av
> King Size Mattress and Victorian Style Chair on lane #3, 4


----------



## phattonez

Well I guess it's better than the house that was on the 101 for about a month.


----------



## Vegas Visitor

Chriszwolle said:


> San Antonio is one of the least known major cities outside the USA. It has 1.3 million inhabitants, and is located in Southern Texas.
> 
> I-10 in San Antonio


This is one hell ugly cowboy freeway


----------



## Xusein

I have to admit too, Texas highways are fugly.

All those stores on the side of the highway is not a good look.


----------



## TexasBoi

It's those idiotic roads running right besides the highways called service roads (or access roads, feeders, wherever you are). They attract businesses along the highway and the results are what you see right there. There are some nice freeways and they are fun to drive on.:banana:But I hate those service roads. 

The only positive that I can think of regarding those roads is that if there was an accident, I jump the median, drive down the access road and ride it until I see the highway cleared up and jump back on the freeway at the next entrance ramp. Other than that......


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Frontage Road


----------



## ADCS

Chriszwolle said:


> Frontage Road


Feeder road, damn it!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I have to agree that most Texas freeways are ugly, because of their massiveness. However, they seems better maintained than the Californian ones.


----------



## TexasBoi

Chriszwolle said:


> Frontage Road


Thattttt's the other word I was looking for lol. But I don't think the Texas freeways are ugly in so much that the area surrounding them actually are. It's fun driving down the area between the loop and Houston intercontinental. But the area surrounding the freeways are terrible and Houston is desperately trying to change that.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This is what i call a "Texan Traffic Jam"


----------



## Mateusz

WTF, they all go in one direction...


----------



## Tom 958

ADCS said:


> Feeder road, damn it!


IMO, feeder road is to frontage road as freeway is to expressway. IOW, the highest and best type: one way, well integrated with interchange layouts, and often including free-flowing U-turn ramps. All feeder roads are frontage roads, but not all frontage roads are feeder roads.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

MateoW said:


> WTF, they all go in one direction...


Hehe, evacuation of Houston during hurricane Rita. Too bad i don't know which freeway this is. (I-45?)


----------



## phattonez

Looks like a typical drive on the Newhall Pass.


----------



## ADCS

Tom 958 said:


> IMO, feeder road is to frontage road as freeway is to expressway. IOW, the highest and best type: one way, well integrated with interchange layouts, and often including free-flowing U-turn ramps. All feeder roads are frontage roads, but not all frontage roads are feeder roads.


Nah, they're all feeders in Houston. It's really just a regional terminology. In San Antonio, they're service roads, while in Dallas they're access roads. In Austin, they call them frontage roads, that's why they're signed that way.



> Hehe, evacuation of Houston during hurricane Rita. Too bad i don't know which freeway this is. (I-45?)


That's I-45 at the Woodlands Parkway in The Woodlands (obviously). That shot was taken literally five miles away from my parents' house in Spring.


----------



## Dimension

My cousins live in Tomball. They waited out the hurricane and nothing bad happened near them.


----------



## Des

Chriszwolle said:


> And nobody in the Netherlands is driving slower or less to compensate for high fuel prices.


Yeah not really, I had the worst fuel economy a few weeks ago, filled up my 50 liter tank with Shell Vpower at € 1,62 a liter (€ 81 euro total) at the German autobahn and 240 km later I was back at the gasstation to fill it up again... :nuts:


----------



## sonysnob

^ and i bet it was worth every penny


----------



## FM 2258

ADCS said:


> Nah, they're all feeders in Houston. It's really just a regional terminology. In San Antonio, they're service roads, while in Dallas they're access roads. In Austin, they call them frontage roads, that's why they're signed that way.
> 
> 
> 
> That's I-45 at the Woodlands Parkway in The Woodlands (obviously). That shot was taken literally five miles away from my parents' house in Spring.



I have a friend that lives in the Woodlands and she waited the storm out, nothing really happened to Houston though. My moms cousin came to Austin and she said it took her 48 hours to reach Austin via 290 (U.S. 290). 





As for the frontage road argument I think frontage roads are great because they make the roadway more efficient and better for business. As for making the road look worse, I could say I agree to an extent but I believe freeways in a city should focus on function more than scenery. Since I've lived in Texas since I was 6 (1986) my idea of freeways include frontage roads and I think that other forms of freeways in the rest of the U.S. look weird and you're literally stuck if something happens on the mainlanes. 

I was in the Los Angeles area last November and I was looking for an In-n-Out burger on IH 210 and I saw one in the distance but I already past the exit. Sadly the next exit was about 3 miles away and it wasn't easy to turn around and find out where the restaurant was. I eventually found it by guessing which surface road it could have been but if I had a Frontage road to help me out finding business would be much easier. 

I also jump the median if there is an accident on the freeway. Everyone sits on the freeway while you cruise along the frontage road wasting no time. :cheers:


----------



## mgk920

One thing that I *REALLY* like about how Texas does its freeways with those frontage roads (they are likely the result of the solution to the quandary of how to balance the standards of the interstate highway system with a tenet of state law that grants the owners of any and all private land unrestricted access to any rights of way that their properties front on) is that they allow the state to 'blaze' and establish a new corridor by building the frontage roads _first_ and then adding the freeway in the middle later on whenever the traffic numbers call for it - completely neutralizing the NIMBY factor in the process.

I wish that more states would figure out that big-time advantage.

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The video shows three interchanges, first the SR-110 / US 101 north of downtown, and they move over to the East LA Interchange southeast of downtown, and finally the I-10/I-110 interchange at the southwest corner of downtown near Staples Center


----------



## TexasBoi

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> ^^ I get on I-90 at that junction to go to Seattle. Prior to that I start at the very beginning of WA-26 from Colfax. Driving 215 km on a 2x1 road is the pain in the ass, I tell you :lol: Even though the speed limit is ~100 km/h most of the time, it is hard to stick to it.


Seriously, that is a beautiful picture.


----------



## TexasBoi

Also, Chicago has frontage roads in some parts of the city as well to an extent. Same with Miami on the Palmetto (826).


----------



## Jack_White455

^^
There are also frontage roads in Missouri as well. We call them outer roads though. I don't know if its true or not but Wikipedia says that Missouri and Texas are the only states that widely constructs frontage roads along the highways. However, I would imagine that there not as busy as the frontage roads in Texas.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

TexasBoi said:


> Seriously, that is a beautiful picture.


A lake in a desert? Well, there is some charm in these landscapes, but like I mentioned, there are much better scenery 70-100 km to the West on I-90.


----------



## HAWC1506

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> A lake in a desert? Well, there is some charm in these landscapes, but like I mentioned, there are much better scenery 70-100 km to the West on I-90.


That would be Columbia river. In person, the scenery is actually really beautiful.


----------



## pwalker

Actually it is Lake Wanapum created on the Columbia River by the Wanapum dam.


----------



## HAWC1506

pwalker said:


> Actually it is Lake Wanapum created on the Columbia River by the Wanapum dam.


Yes that, mah bad haha. Hey how do you guys put videos on posts?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I emailed the Texas DOT to obtain traffic counts, since they don't publish that on their website directly, I had to email them.

Hope to get an answer soon!


----------



## HAWC1506

Chriszwolle said:


> I emailed the Texas DOT to obtain traffic counts, since they don't publish that on their website directly, I had to email them.
> 
> Hope to get an answer soon!


Do you mean traffic count on a certain highway or a statewide traffic count?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Statewide, i got an answer, quite fast, they have some kind of interactive traffic map 

Highest AADT i've seen so far was 302,000 at the I-45 in northern Houston.


----------



## ADCS

Chriszwolle said:


> Statewide, i got an answer, quite fast, they have some kind of interactive traffic map
> 
> Highest AADT i've seen so far was 302,000 at the I-45 in northern Houston.


Check the US 59 Southwest Freeway in Houston. I've heard that it has the highest AADT for any non-multiplexed highway in the United States


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ 330.000 vehicles a day.

I believe that's the highest in Texas, and also one of the highest in the United States.

I think Houstons network is somewhat underdeveloped, so all traffic concentrates on the few massive inbound freeways.


----------



## Galls

Chriszwolle said:


> ^^ 330.000 vehicles a day.
> 
> I believe that's the highest in Texas, and also one of the highest in the United States.
> 
> I think Houstons network is somewhat underdeveloped, so all traffic concentrates on the few massive inbound freeways.


While I respect your obvious education on the matters of infrastructure, I do have to argue that looking at a map of houston, it certainly has no shortage of highways and the marginal utility of the creation of more highways would, just form a land use efficiency perspective, be quite detrimental to the area.

On a side note, I do have to ask what is the motivation behind a fellow dutchy being so enthralled by American infrastructure, as you know I am not really in love with the life style the highways and automobile created, nor do I hope my mother's country envies that lifestyle.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Houston has an excessively large metropolitan area of 5.6 million inhabitants spread out over large distances. Each freeway serves hundreds of thousands of people. Besides the beltways, there are no suburb-to-suburb connections, like they have in Dallas for instance. Every freeway is littered with massive industrial and office developments. 

These developments are not in favor for mass transit, since it just wouldn't be efficient unless you build a Tokyo-style rail system, which is, for Houston, out of their league. Houston has a radial system, which causes traffic to concentrate along these freeways. That's why Houston has excessively high numbers of traffic compared to other metropolitan area's of similar size. It's even more busy than Chicago or Philadelphia. 

There are approximatly 1.9 million households in Houston. An average household can produce between 5 - 7 vehicle movements per day. That multiplies to 9.5 to 13.3 million vehicle movements per day in metro Houston. Ofcourse, not all of them use the freeway, but it is still possible to have massive amount of traffic on the freeways.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A little traffic comparison. Times: 7.45 and 8.20 

*Dallas - Fort Worth*
















*Houston*
















*San Antonio*
















*Austin*


----------



## phattonez

Chriszwolle said:


> Houston has an excessively large metropolitan area of 5.6 million inhabitants spread out over large distances. Each freeway serves hundreds of thousands of people. Besides the beltways, there are no suburb-to-suburb connections, like they have in Dallas for instance. Every freeway is littered with massive industrial and office developments.
> 
> These developments are not in favor for mass transit, since it just wouldn't be efficient unless you build a Tokyo-style rail system, which is, for Houston, out of their league. Houston has a radial system, which causes traffic to concentrate along these freeways. That's why Houston has excessively high numbers of traffic compared to other metropolitan area's of similar size. It's even more busy than Chicago or Philadelphia.
> 
> There are approximatly 1.9 million households in Houston. An average household can produce between 5 - 7 vehicle movements per day. That multiplies to 9.5 to 13.3 million vehicle movements per day in metro Houston. Ofcourse, not all of them use the freeway, but it is still possible to have massive amount of traffic on the freeways.


Commuter rail with park and rides are the only way for these suburbs to have any option besides driving.

As for those traffic levels, they look like heaven compared to what I've seen for LA freeways during afternoon rush hour.


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## Rail Claimore

Houston has probably the MOST developed freeway network of any metro over 2 million people when taking population/lane-mile ratios into account. The only drawback is that for such a sprawled out metro area, it's radial in nature rather than oriented on a grid. But multiple beltways and a well-developed arterial system can help mitigate those shortcomings, something Houston has which Atlanta, a comparably-sized metro, does not.


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## ChrisZwolle

A TONEP (Trace of never executed plan ) in Hartford:

Interstate 84 & State Route 9.


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## ChrisZwolle

Test, post don't seem to appear.

Edit: That's better 

In the above pic, only the east-west and the lanes to the south are actually in use. The north-south lanes and connectors are abandoned


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## Timon91

When I was in Canada in 1998 we would visit some friends somewhere in a small town in BC. We were driving to them from Vancouver. I still remember me asking how long it was. The one who was driving us answered: not a lot, only 500 km. See how relative distances are.


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## ChrisZwolle

Me too, i drive 15,500 miles private and 6,000 miles for work per year. A lot of Dutchmen drive over 15,000 miles per year. The average commuting distance by car is 12 miles. A commute of 25 miles is seen as far here.


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## Verso

Timon Kruijk said:


> When I was in Canada in 1998 we would visit some friends somewhere in a small town in BC. We were driving to them from Vancouver. I still remember me asking how long it was. The one who was driving us answered: not a lot, only 500 km. See how relative distances are.


After 500 km (300 mi) I say: more! :lol: I don't like more than 600 mi a day though.


----------



## WonderlandPark

I have done super drives before in a day, solo, like 

LA-Seattle: 1130mi / 1818km
LA-Portland: 960mi / 1545km
Chicago-Cape Cod: about 1000mi / 1610 km

that was when I was younger, but I recently did
LA-Las Cruces (New Mexico) in a day: 760mi / 1223km


----------



## phattonez

LA-Seattle in a day? Are you crazy or what? How can someone drive for that long?


----------



## gannman1975

Bori427 said:


> But you guys don't have to drive long distances do you???


But I bet that their Public Transport infrastructure is:
- more convenient to use (better hours, frequency, more days)
- safer to use
- gets you to where you want to go more


----------



## pwalker

phattonez said:


> LA-Seattle in a day? Are you crazy or what? How can someone drive for that long?


It can be done in a day if you define a day as 24 hours. If you averaged 70 mph (optimistic speed) you could conceivably do it in about 15 and a half hours. Rand McNally estimates more like 17+ hours.

But think about it, you've got to refuel atleast two or three times, you've got to get through major metro areas like Sacramento and Portland, and you've got to deal with major speed enforcement in all three states. I suppose you could do like that crazy astronaut lady and wear diapers so could save some time there.


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## ChrisZwolle

Strange HOV sign, never seen this type before. Location: US 59 in Houston.


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## Majestic

^^Am I seeing it right? "Trucks over 1 ton prohibited". Hell, it's hard to find a compact lighter than a tone, not mentioning a truck :nuts:


----------



## Bori427

Verso said:


> We feel so much better after this statement. I don't think a Texan drives to New York every day.



Well,a driver in Dallas probably has to drive many more miles to work than one in Amsterdam,Vilnius,etc.


----------



## Bori427

Verso said:


> I know, but still, that doesn't make me feel any better about fuel prices. You can make tens of thousands of miles over your small country, which actually is the case. I empty my tank in a couple of weeks.


Well over here we empty our tanks at LEAST once a week.


----------



## shadyunltd

Chriszwolle said:


> US signage is pretty clear if you understand the system, especially the cardinal directions. We don't have that in Europe, because our highway system is far less of a grid, so people always complain about the bad signage in the US.


Chris, last summer I went to Italy/France and, although I'm a Frenchman (though living in Canada), I still got lost, especially in Italy. Signage is not that clear in Italy, especially on "SuperStrada" or "Nationales". We even encountered contradicting signs in Italy. One arrow pointed to the left, and one to the right... for the SAME destination.

Actually, the worst is in the city themselves, where street signs are not properly shown and indications leading to highways are not shown at all. It's easy to get lost in an European city unless you have a good map. 

Highways are pretty clear though. It was nice to get lost, especially in Tuscany during sunset. I won't complain even though we reached our hotel 3 hours late. Here in North America, you can take the country roads and still reach your destination pretty easily. I won't say that it's not the case for Italy, but it's definetely not as easy as in North America.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Italy has one of the worst signages in the world. 

In the US it's very easy to follow the roadnumber.


----------



## Verso

Bori427 said:


> Well over here we empty our tanks at LEAST once a week.


In Puerto Rico? I doubt.  I know you have wide highways though. My tank is 67 l, btw. Anyway, fuel here is much more expensive.


----------



## DanielFigFoz

Majestic said:


> ^^Am I seeing it right? "Trucks over 1 ton prohibited". Hell, it's hard to find a compact lighter than a tone, not mentioning a truck :nuts:


A imperial Ton is diferent to a metric tonne.


----------



## Verso

DanielFigFoz said:


> A imperial Ton is diferent to a metric tonne.


Not much different. ~1016 kg.


----------



## Bori427

Verso said:


> In Puerto Rico? I doubt.  I know you have wide highways though. My tank is 67 l, btw. Anyway, fuel here is much more expensive.


Why not??? It might be considered a tiny country but trips sure are long and traffic jams are horrible,few cities in the US have such bad traffic as San Juan.

Although fuel here ain't very expensive (about 97 cents per liter),it's really bad for a car loving country.


----------



## Verso

Bori427 said:


> Why not??? It might be considered a tiny country but trips sure are long and traffic jams are horrible,few cities in the US have such bad traffic as San Juan.


So you're saying that trips are long in the tiny Puerto Rico, but people don't need to drive long distances in the Netherlands, which is thrice as big? How does this go together? And I believe traffic jams are more horrible in the Netherlands. Also, Puerto Rico is an island, whereas from the Netherlands you can drive to Singapore, if you wish. Even my country is bigger than Puerto Rico.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Verso said:


> from the Netherlands you can drive to Singapore, if you wish.


I'd love to do that once. :lol:


----------



## Verso

You haven't yet? :colgate:


----------



## Gareth

Here's an amusing article comparing US & UK driving experiences. It upset quite a few americans... 

http://www.cbrd.co.uk/reference/international/usa.shtml


----------



## Xusein

They lost their credibility to me when they used Pennsylvania highways...


----------



## Paddington

Yeah no kidding, LOL. It would have been better for them to choose Ohio or Texas.


----------



## geogregor

Gareth said:


> Here's an amusing article comparing US & UK driving experiences. It upset quite a few americans...
> 
> http://www.cbrd.co.uk/reference/international/usa.shtml


Why it should upset Americans?
Nothing wrong with US signs in this article.The only people who get lost or confused in US are illiterate idiots. The same actually applies to UK. 
Seriously, most problems with navigation abroad is just adjusting to different systems. Once you get used to let say US or UK system there is no problem. And it takes no more than one hour or few intersections/exits to do that.
I still don't get why people pray to German or Dutch signing system. They are no better than British or American.
Even the worst system (French in my opinion, at least on small roads) is still possible to work out in few hours.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

geogregor said:


> I still don't get why people pray to German or Dutch signing system. They are no better than British or American.


You put British and American signage in the same category? :lol: 

First of all, German signs have a high degree of standardisation - this means that signs which have the same purpose don't vary as much as those in the USA. Second, Germans (as well as the rest of Europe) use the pictorial signs that deliver a message using pictures (also pretty standardised) rather than text as in the USA. For instance, warning signs indicating a merging lane have the same picture in both American and European signage systems, but in America they also have a clumsy sign reading: "Right lane ends. Merge left". Why? :nuts: Same goes for writing "Do not enter" and "Yield" on otherwise identical European equivalent signs. By the way, in Canada they use the North American signing design, but they prefer to use pictures instead of words. Works much better in my opinion.


----------



## Bori427

Verso said:


> So you're saying that trips are long in the tiny Puerto Rico, but people don't need to drive long distances in the Netherlands, which is thrice as big? How does this go together? And I believe traffic jams are more horrible in the Netherlands. Also, Puerto Rico is an island, whereas from the Netherlands you can drive to Singapore, if you wish. Even my country is bigger than Puerto Rico.


That's why I said we're a tiny island,but urban sprawl here is pretty bad wherehas it's not THAT bad in Europe,specially in your country.

Yeah so you're saying everyone in the Netherlands,your country,etc. drive those long distances all the time?

I mean,just to go to work,what distance do you travel,plus how bad is traffic???


----------



## Verso

Maybe Chris has some more info about the Netherlands, as I don't live there.


----------



## FM 2258

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> You put British and American signage in the same category? :lol:
> 
> First of all, German signs have a high degree of standardisation - this means that signs which have the same purpose don't vary as much as those in the USA. Second, Germans (as well as the rest of Europe) use the pictorial signs that deliver a message using pictures (also pretty standardised) rather than text as in the USA. For instance, warning signs indicating a merging lane have the same picture in both American and European signage systems, but in America they also have a clumsy sign reading: "Right lane ends. Merge left". Why? :nuts: Same goes for writing "Do not enter" and "Yield" on otherwise identical European equivalent signs. By the way, in Canada they use the North American signing design, but they prefer to use pictures instead of words. Works much better in my opinion.



What's wrong with text based signs? I remember driving in Italy last year and was confused at some of the picture based signs. Some showed a red car next to a black car and another looked like a pair of tits. Speed limit signs look like state highway signs and they don't seem to use the variety of colors that they do in the U.S. 

I think whatever system you grew up with is what works best for you. I like seeing a sign that says "Speed Limit" instead of a vague sign with a number in it or seeing "Do Not Enter" inside the do not enter sign. You have to be able to read to pass the driving test over here so I think text based signs are a good thing.


I love our highway signs in the U.S. :cheers:


----------



## Alle

> You have to be able to read to pass the driving test over here so I think text based signs are a good thing.


... No kidding :lol:

In either case, to each their own. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.


----------



## pwalker

I disagree signs are not very standardized in the U.S. The federal signs are for the most part the same all over the country. The State signs are standardized within their State. So, yes, you have 50 different types of State signs but they are standardized.


----------



## FM 2258

pwalker said:


> I disagree signs are not very standardized in the U.S. The federal signs are for the most part the same all over the country. The State signs are standardized within their State. So, yes, you have 50 different types of State signs but they are standardized.


That's what fascinated me about highways when I was growing up. I grew up in Texas so I thought all states had a white sign with the state name on it like in Texas but was surprised when my family did a trip from Texas to Vermont and each state had a unique shield for their state. I thought that was so creative it got me interested in highways. 

I remember driving into Austin asking my mom "what does F.M. 1325 mean?" and she didn't know. I looked at the radio and noticed FM only went up to 104.something so I was on a quest to figure it out. 

Also when I realized Interstates were mostly rural I thought that was weird because I thought "big highways" were only in cites. 

Anyway my point is that you can drive from New York to Los Angeles and still feel like you're on a local road because the Interstate and the signage look the same all across the country. Even in Hawaii, Alaska and Puerto Rico but their signs are in Spanish which was interesting to know. 

Few Americans will ever drive in Europe so if signs are vastly different it really doesn't matter because Joe from Tuscon may never drive on A1 in Roma while Giovanni from Roma will never drive on Interstate 19 in Tuscon. 


With all that said, I agree with what you're saying if there is any confusion here in my little rant.


----------



## geogregor

pwalker said:


> I disagree signs are not very standardized in the U.S. The federal signs are for the most part the same all over the country. The State signs are standardized within their State. So, yes, you have 50 different types of State signs but they are standardized.


You may have 50 styles of road shields for state highways but all the important signs which decide about safety are standardized. Speed limit signs for example are all the same from Alaska to Florida, the same with dangerous curves, steep hill, danger of animals running into road etc.
It doesn't matter if it is on county lane in upper Michigan or US highway in Arizona.
In European Union variations between countries are much bigger.
About text signs.
Personally I never had problem with them even if English is not my mother tong. Theoretically pictorial signs should have advantage. It takes less time to recognize picture than it takes to read text. Problem is when you have so many designs of pictures or if you have some local signs let say in Norway (running caribou or something like that) and you just came from Spain. How do you now what that picture means?
In this case clear text message might have advantage. Problem is when like in Europe you don't have common language.


----------



## pwalker

FM 2258 said:


> That's what fascinated me about highways when I was growing up. I grew up in Texas so I thought all states had a white sign with the state name on it like in Texas but was surprised when my family did a trip from Texas to Vermont and each state had a unique shield for their state. I thought that was so creative it got me interested in highways.
> 
> I remember driving into Austin asking my mom "what does F.M. 1325 mean?" and she didn't know. I looked at the radio and noticed FM only went up to 104.something so I was on a quest to figure it out.
> 
> Also when I realized Interstates were mostly rural I thought that was weird because I thought "big highways" were only in cites.
> 
> Anyway my point is that you can drive from New York to Los Angeles and still feel like you're on a local road because the Interstate and the signage look the same all across the country. Even in Hawaii, Alaska and Puerto Rico but their signs are in Spanish which was interesting to know.
> 
> Few Americans will ever drive in Europe so if signs are vastly different it really doesn't matter because Joe from Tuscon may never drive on A1 in Roma while Giovanni from Roma will never drive on Interstate 19 in Tuscon.
> 
> 
> With all that said, I agree with what you're saying if there is any confusion here in my little rant.


Someone may have put up this link before, but it's cool.

www.routemarkers.com/states/

BTW, I've always liked the "FM" designation in Texas. (Farm to Market), even though many of those roads are now in the middle of metropolitan areas.


----------



## geogregor

The best for me are Washinton State Highways signs.
Little profile of George Washington. How cool is that!!!
I'll try to find pictures from a trip I did few years ago to Oregon and Washington.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

FM 2258 said:


> What's wrong with text based signs? I remember driving in Italy last year and was confused at some of the picture based signs. Some showed a red car next to a black car and another looked like a pair of tits. Speed limit signs look like state highway signs and they don't seem to use the variety of colors that they do in the U.S.


Oh come on...  It's not so hard to memorise that a red car next to a black one inside red circle means "no passing", and "a pair of tits" means "Bumps" :lol: Maybe it's hard to memorise pictures in the beginning, but once you do, then you will see the same pictures in every European country. And could you tell me what state highway sign is resembled by European speed limit sign? Look at Montana state highway shields, you will be surprised just how much they look like American speed limit signs. 



> I think whatever system you grew up with is what works best for you. I like seeing a sign that says "Speed Limit" instead of a vague sign with a number in it


Vague, really? :lol: It is extremely hard for anyone to confuse a number inside red circle with anything else even though it doesn't say "Speed limit". It is, however, not so easy to differentiate between "Reduced speed" and "Maximum speed" textual signs in the USA when you are 200 metres away. 



> or seeing "Do Not Enter" inside the do not enter sign. You have to be able to read to pass the driving test over here so I think text based signs are a good thing.


Just tell me one thing. What can you distinguish better from a long distance - a picture or a text? Yep! :cheers:


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## gladisimo

I do see a problem with visitors having problems distinguishing picture signs they're not familiar with, but the same could be said for people who dont know english.


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## Verso

I also like pictorial signs much more, although _additional_ text (not just a simple text) doesn't bother me. But seriously, does any American still go reading "do not enter" every time (s)he sees that sign? I think you recognize it from afar, meaning it's all about the picture, not the text.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Verso said:


> I also like pictorial signs much more, although _additional_ text (not just a simple text) doesn't bother me. But seriously, does any American still go reading "do not enter" every time (s)he sees that sign? I think you recognize it from afar, meaning it's all about the picture, not the text.


There are other purely textual "signs" in the USA that read "Right lane must turn", "Keep right except to pass", "Pass with care", "Reduced speed ahead", etc. Pretty useless, in my opinion.


----------



## ADCS

Majestic said:


> ^^Am I seeing it right? "Trucks over 1 ton prohibited". Hell, it's hard to find a compact lighter than a tone, not mentioning a truck :nuts:


That refers to carrying capacity in the bed of the truck. For example, an F-150 is a "quarter-ton truck" because it has a maximum carrying capacity of 500 lbs. All that sign is doing is preventing large trucks like 18-wheelers and package trucks from using the HOV lane.


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## Billpa

The Right/Left Lane MUST Turn signs are awful. Why they still exist is beyond me when we have perfectly good arrow signs for lane assignments. 










VS


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ I think the pictorial sign does take more time to understand though.


----------



## Verso

^^ I strongly disagree, I think it's very easy to understand; also, there's no need for writing "ONLY" on the sign.


----------



## Billpa

Chriszwolle said:


> ^^ I think the pictorial sign does take more time to understand though.


Seen from a distance, the arrows show you what's coming up- not only lane assignments but also how many lanes there will be. The text signs look the same from a distance- you don't know if it's right or left until you get closer...it also gives the motorist ZERO information about how many lanes you'll be faced with when you get to the traffic light.


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## ChrisZwolle

I assumed both signs were more or less the same size. It's easier to read a short sentence in 1 second than figure out a painting. Arrows are the most easy to understand on large overheads, stuffing multiple arrows in a small sign doesn't make it more visible from a distance.


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## Billpa

If I get a chance, I'll take some pictures- my experience is the arrows come in to focus sooner than the worded sign does when driving around.
But also, the left lane must turn left sign doesn't give you any indication about what the other lanes will do.


----------



## Verso

Chris, are you sure you're a "European"?


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## ChrisZwolle

Maybe i should change it to "Euroamerican"


----------



## AUchamps

We are a nation of literacy and homogenized written language. We're not like Europe, Asia, or Africa where it has to be mainly sign-picture due to the numerous languages.

South America is like we are(as they should be, everyone can read at least basic Spanish or Portuguese). New Zealand, Australia, and Taiwan are actually a lot like the USA in signage(right down to Highway Gothic font, and god willing they will never go Clearview, as well as Big Green Signage).

I fully expect China to be a sign-language nation like the USA since everyone should be able to read Mandarin Chinese if living there for long periods of time.


----------



## Verso

Textuatic.


----------



## mgk920

Shouldn't this signage discussion be in the 'Non-Interstate' thread?

Anyways, signage standards in the USA are in the federal Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices ('MUTCD'), available at the US DOT website.

I'm one whom prefers the image signs and there are several images that I'd like to see the USA adopt (ie, the 'windsock' and congested traffic warning signs, the blue disc with the down-pointing arrow for 'keep right/left' and the 'red circle' speed limit signs).

Mike


----------



## LtBk

This sign should be posted ever mile on our urban freeways and every 5-10 miles on rural freeways:


----------



## Billpa

AUchamps said:


> We are a nation of literacy and homogenized written language. We're not like Europe, Asia, or Africa where it has to be mainly sign-picture due to the numerous languages..


Doesn't matter. Picture signs work better than written signs because it takes the brain less time to "read" what's being said. It doesn't matter how well you understand the language. I also think you'll find more picture signs in NZ, Australia and China than you do in the US.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I was checking out Texas A LOT lately on Google Earth. I found out they had a lot of this type exits/interchanges:









In the Netherlands, my city has this type of interchange:









Which do you think are more effective? I think the Dutch one, you can go threequarters round (or left) within one green phase. You only have to wait once to enter the one way road (it's not a roundabout technically). Besides that, it's more comfort driving than having to wait for 3 separate traffic lights to take a left turn.


----------



## Xusein

The Texas interchange looks like a MASSIVE waste of space and does not look nice aesthetically. 

I prefer the Dutch one too, but I have never seen an interchange like that in the US.


----------



## Paddington

In Texas the service roads complicate things.

In America the most common interchange is the diamond.


----------



## Timon91

The Texan version is too complicated and a waste of space.


----------



## Tom 958

Timon Kruijk said:


> The Texan version is too complicated and a waste of space.


Not at all. It's very simple, and the only thing that takes up a lot of space is the right turn ramps. Surely the intent is to eventually add flyover ramps to convert this to a five-level stack; the land has almost certainly already been bought and the right-turn ramps are there as a cheap means of getting some use out of the reserved land until the interchange is completed.

I'm not a fan of the Texas way of freeway building, but let's criticize it for the right reasons.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ They use this kind of constructions too for non-freeway interchanges (or at least freeway-to-surface straat interchanges), which does make the interchange unnecessary inefficient. Space is not quite a thing they are missing Texas.


----------



## geogregor

This "Dutch" intersection I would rather call "British"
90% of British motorway junctions is in shape of round abound. I think they are the best. Way batter than anything in continental Europe or US.
Problem is cost of construction. You need two bridges in this type of junction.
But they handle busy traffic very well.


----------



## ADCS

Chriszwolle said:


> I was checking out Texas A LOT lately on Google Earth. I found out they had a lot of this type exits/interchanges:


Is it sad that I knew right away which interchange that was? (Beltway 8/Sam Houston Tollway - Texas State Highway 288) As the poster before mentioned, yes, that is planned for a 5-level stack; however, traffic levels aren't high enough to justify the cost right now. I also think that the reason a roundabout isn't put there is because in the future, when the stack is complete, the feeder road level (which I've heard referred to as a volleyball interchange before) will not have enough traffic to justify the current expenditure on the roundabout.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Atlanta morning rushhour traffic seems fairly okay.


----------



## LtBk

Atlanta has a fucked up road system.


----------



## FM 2258

^^

It looks like merging two major Interstates into one going through downtown is the worst part of it all. I like that all Interstates go through the heart of the city but it looks like it would have been better if they somehow kept them as two separate freeways on either side of downtown.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Atlanta doesn't have a grid system, and neither does it have much direct main road connections to downtown. This means all traffic is moving to the massive freeways. The traffic volumes are very high for the size of the metropolitan area. Only Houston has comparable AADT's.


----------



## CLTNC

The difference in the US and Europe is most of our states are bigger that European countries. North Carolina is the 28th biggest state in land area. It is just a little larger than England.
It is over 500 miles from Manteo on the coast to Murphy in the mounatins. I live in Charlotte and it is 200 miles to Wilington and 130 miles to Raleigh. With these types of miles if I were Europe, I would be in another country.

The differnce here in the US people move all around the country. I have a daughter in the Denver, Colorado area and a son in the Philpadelpha, area. to drive to Penn. it is a ll day drive. To Colorado it is a 3 hour flight from Charlotte. As a rule, for evey hour in the air it is a one day drive.

So here in the US, we can drive the lower 48 states with no trouble.

The USA is a big place. We are only 58 miles from Russia. The Bering Strait separates the United States and Russia by 58 miles (85 km), with a water depth that measures 100–165 feet, (30–50 meters). 

In the last few decades some factions have discussed the construction of a bridge over the strait, however, financial and weather concerns have continually stalled the project. Recently, talk of a tunnel under the strait has been on the front-burner, however, the high cost of same will certainly be a factor, but imagine driving from Alaska to Russia. Wow, what a concept!


----------



## mgk920

FM 2258 said:


> ^^
> 
> It looks like merging two major Interstates into one going through downtown is the worst part of it all. I like that all Interstates go through the heart of the city but it looks like it would have been better if they somehow kept them as two separate freeways on either side of downtown.


There was a north-south freeway planned to run east of downtown, extending southward from I-85/GA 400, but it was canceled. I believe that it was to feed into I-675 at I-285 at its south end. Parts of the ROW are easily visible on aerial images of the city and the Carter Presidential Library was built where it was to meet the unbuilt GA 10 freeway east of downtown.

Had it been built, I-75/85 would not need to be nearly as wide as it now is in the downtown area.

Mike


----------



## FM 2258

CLTNC said:


> The difference in the US and Europe is most of our states are bigger that European countries. North Carolina is the 28th biggest state in land area. It is just a little larger than England.
> It is over 500 miles from Manteo on the coast to Murphy in the mounatins. I live in Charlotte and it is 200 miles to Wilington and 130 miles to Raleigh. With these types of miles if I were Europe, I would be in another country.
> 
> The differnce here in the US people move all around the country. I have a daughter in the Denver, Colorado area and a son in the Philpadelpha, area. to drive to Penn. it is a ll day drive. To Colorado it is a 3 hour flight from Charlotte. As a rule, for evey hour in the air it is a one day drive.
> 
> So here in the US, we can drive the lower 48 states with no trouble.
> 
> The USA is a big place. We are only 58 miles from Russia. The Bering Strait separates the United States and Russia by 58 miles (85 km), with a water depth that measures 100–165 feet, (30–50 meters).
> 
> In the last few decades some factions have discussed the construction of a bridge over the strait, however, financial and weather concerns have continually stalled the project. Recently, talk of a tunnel under the strait has been on the front-burner, however, the high cost of same will certainly be a factor, but imagine driving from Alaska to Russia. Wow, what a concept!



I've been to the U.K. and Italy and judging from those two countries the way cities and towns are set up makes the place look much bigger than it really is. I remember taking a bus from Bournemouth to Christchurch and although it isn't far (less than six miles) it felt like we went 30 miles in the United States. They seem to use land very efficiently in Europe and you pass so many stores, homes and businesses in a relatively short distance. I even drove from Catania to Giarre in Italy and that short trip felt really long to me although it was on a tollway. 





mgk920 said:


> There was a north-south freeway planned to run east of downtown, extending southward from I-85/GA 400, but it was canceled. I believe that it was to feed into I-675 at I-285 at its south end. Parts of the ROW are easily visible on aerial images of the city and the Carter Presidential Library was built where it was to meet the unbuilt GA 10 freeway east of downtown.
> 
> Had it been built, I-75/85 would not need to be nearly as wide as it now is in the downtown area.
> 
> Mike



That's interesting, I'll have to take a look. I love Interstate highways but our country needs to get on the ball and figure out a way to make public transportation a truly viable alternative for driving your car.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

mgk920 said:


> There was a north-south freeway planned to run east of downtown, extending southward from I-85/GA 400, but it was canceled. I believe that it was to feed into I-675 at I-285 at its south end. Parts of the ROW are easily visible on aerial images of the city and the Carter Presidential Library was built where it was to meet the unbuilt GA 10 freeway east of downtown.
> 
> Had it been built, I-75/85 would not need to be nearly as wide as it now is in the downtown area.
> 
> Mike


That is correct, the I-675 should have connected with the GA-400 (the tollway section). However, i doubt if it would relieve the downtown connector, since i think the majority of that traffic comes from the south(west) and goes north(west) or northeast on I-85, and does not need to use the projected I-675. I think most traffic for that corridor rather comes from the eastern part of the Perimeter (I-285) and local roads.



FM 2258 said:


> That's interesting, I'll have to take a look. I love Interstate highways but our country needs to get on the ball and figure out a way to make public transportation a truly viable alternative for driving your car.


The only way to do that is to make the cities more dense. Building a public transportation in the current cities, is mostly unaffordable, you need a very large PT-system to make a significant difference to relief the roadways. No city can make that kind of expenditure. That's why you see only small railsystems being build. 

Besides that, building the infrastructure is one thing, maintaining and operating it while you're not making a profite is also very expensive.


----------



## Verso

Chriszwolle said:


> That is correct, the I-675 should have connected with the GA-400 (the tollway section). However, i doubt if it would relieve the downtown connector, since i think the majority of that traffic comes from the south(west) and goes north(west) or northeast on I-85, and does not need to use the projected I-675. I think most traffic for that corridor rather comes from the eastern part of the Perimeter (I-285) and local roads.


Chris, how do you know all these trivia?? :dizzy:


----------



## Paddington

Atlanta's hilly topography also makes building expressways harder than in flat cities like Detroit or Houston. It is inadequate though.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-84 in Oregon:


----------



## pwalker

Chriszwolle said:


> I-84 in Oregon:


Have driven this stretch of I-84 (through the Columbia Gorge) many times. Beautiful drive. Trivia: I-84 was originally I-80N. Today's I-80 was I-80S.


----------



## en1044

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> There are other purely textual "signs" in the USA that read "Right lane must turn", "Keep right except to pass", "Pass with care", "Reduced speed ahead", etc. Pretty useless, in my opinion.


Actually, these signs are very useful to drivers.


----------



## ADCS

en1044 said:


> Actually, these signs are very useful to drivers.


His argument is that to a non-English speaker, they are meaningless (which is true). The question is, is that an issue in the US, while at the same time, are the pictorial signs easily understood simply because one is familiar with them?


----------



## rantanamo

Tom 958 said:


> Not at all. It's very simple, and the only thing that takes up a lot of space is the right turn ramps. Surely the intent is to eventually add flyover ramps to convert this to a five-level stack; the land has almost certainly already been bought and the right-turn ramps are there as a cheap means of getting some use out of the reserved land until the interchange is completed.
> 
> I'm not a fan of the Texas way of freeway building, but let's criticize it for the right reasons.



Bingo. That's exactly why.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

en1044 said:


> Actually, these signs are very useful to drivers.


What I meant was that these kind of signs should be represented by pictures and not text. If there are people unable to memorise pictures, rest assured DMV would not give them license to drive


----------



## FM 2258

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> What I meant was that these kind of signs should be represented by pictures and not text. If there are people unable to memorise pictures, rest assured DMV would not give them license to drive



I see nothing wrong with text based signs in the United States. I never really noticed how many of our signs are text based until the issue came up in this thread. In my opinion they're more helpful than picture signs because there is no question as to what the sign is telling the driver. 

I'm not sure how someone would put a "NO THRU TRAFFIC" sign in picture form but the sign works well as designed.


----------



## gladisimo

FM 2258 said:


> I see nothing wrong with text based signs in the United States. I never really noticed how many of our signs are text based until the issue came up in this thread. In my opinion they're more helpful than picture signs because there is no question as to what the sign is telling the driver.
> 
> I'm not sure how someone would put a "NO THRU TRAFFIC" sign in picture form but the sign works well as designed.


I never really take notice of them since I'm used to them here. But I think using pictures allows a sign to provide more information, thus probably replacing two or more signs at many intersections with one sign, while providing drivers with more useful information regarding lane designation. A picture design tends to provide more information with a simpler layout, replacing a clutter of works with one or two arrows. 

One problem I frequently encounter in the states is not always knowing exactly which lane goes where, which is not a problem in places I'm familiar with, but becomes confusing at times in places I'm new to. Most signs simply say "this and that, right lanes" which is alright, except sometimes some lanes split, and some lanes become solids way before you can make a lane change. This is proven on one or two difficult intersections, where the local residents have obviously complained enough that they got the local government to put up a sign marking the lanes clearly. Why shouldn't this be done for most or all large intersections?

The only problem I see with changing the system is the logistics needed to re-educate the entire population, otherwise the system will take 60 years or more to phase in (just let the drivers who learn the old system die off)


----------



## gladisimo

A picture I found on the CA DMV site.










Now, my only gripe with the American system is the number of "regulatory signs". All the turns signs can be replaced by a lane diagram in big intersections or potentially confusing areas, while all the other signs should be standardized in one way or another. Do not block intersection sign can easily replaced by yellow boxes to reduce clutter, and same with passing zones, etc.

In general, I think the European (well, HK, since it's based on the British system) handles itself much better in terms of managing the clutter vs amount of information delivered ratio. 

As for the usefulness of them, however, there's no denying the vast majority of them are useful, if not executed in the best way.


----------



## HAWC1506

I've been wondering, are signs in the United States a federal standard or can states also adopt their own system?


----------



## ADCS

HAWC1506 said:


> I've been wondering, are signs in the United States a federal standard or can states also adopt their own system?


The MUTCD (Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices) is the national standard for road signage in the US. States can deviate from it slightly, but changes have to be approved by the Federal Highway Administration, if I remember correctly.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

FM 2258 said:


> I'm not sure how someone would put a "NO THRU TRAFFIC" sign in picture form but the sign works well as designed.


There you go, man. It may take you couple of glances at the sign to memorise it, but you can't really confuse it with anything else. 










Took me about 3 days to memorise all Russian (European) signs before I took a theory test. Now, think how you can substitute these signs with text :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No thru traffic, and "dead end" are not the same.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Chriszwolle said:


> No thru traffic, and "dead end" are not the same.


I have been driving in America for 8 years, and not even once did this difference matter to me.


----------



## FM 2258

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> There you go, man. It may take you couple of glances at the sign to memorise it, but you can't really confuse it with anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Took me about 3 days to memorise all Russian (European) signs before I took a theory test. Now, think how you can substitute these signs with text :lol:


Well that's the good thing about text signs. You don't have to memorize anything. You read it and you're done. By the way I have no idea what those signs mean. hno:



gladisimo said:


> A picture I found on the CA DMV site.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, my only gripe with the American system is the number of "regulatory signs". All the turns signs can be replaced by a lane diagram in big intersections or potentially confusing areas, while all the other signs should be standardized in one way or another. Do not block intersection sign can easily replaced by yellow boxes to reduce clutter, and same with passing zones, etc.
> 
> In general, I think the European (well, HK, since it's based on the British system) handles itself much better in terms of managing the clutter vs amount of information delivered ratio.
> 
> As for the usefulness of them, however, there's no denying the vast majority of them are useful, if not executed in the best way.



I think the regulatory signs are great. They obviously work well over here otherwise they won't use them. Because of this thread only have I now noticed how many signs here are text based. Since everyone speaks the same language over here text based sings work. Not everything needs to be symbolized. 

In Europe you can drive from Italy to Norway and encounter many different languages while in the United States you can drive from Miami to Seattle with no difference in languages which is more than twice the distance you would drive in Europe. I don't want highways over here to look like European highways because that would really suck.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

FM 2258 said:


> Well that's the good thing about text signs. You don't have to memorize anything. You read it and you're done. By the way I have no idea what those signs mean. hno:


Top sign means "Dead end". Left one means that next right turn will be dead end, and the right one means that the left branch of Y-intersection will lead to dead end. I don't want to be too annoying, but with all the stuff you have to remember throughout your life, traffic signs would take but a small niche in your memory.


----------



## Paddington

I'm glad we don't have signs like those here. :cheers:


----------



## en1044

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> What I meant was that these kind of signs should be represented by pictures and not text. If there are people unable to memorise pictures, rest assured DMV would not give them license to drive


But why have picture based signs when everyone here speaks the same language?


----------



## en1044

gladisimo said:


> I never really take notice of them since I'm used to them here. But I think using pictures allows a sign to provide more information, thus probably replacing two or more signs at many intersections with one sign, while providing drivers with more useful information regarding lane designation. A picture design tends to provide more information with a simpler layout, replacing a clutter of works with one or two arrows.
> 
> One problem I frequently encounter in the states is not always knowing exactly which lane goes where, which is not a problem in places I'm familiar with, but becomes confusing at times in places I'm new to. Most signs simply say "this and that, right lanes" which is alright, except sometimes some lanes split, and some lanes become solids way before you can make a lane change. This is proven on one or two difficult intersections, where the local residents have obviously complained enough that they got the local government to put up a sign marking the lanes clearly. Why shouldn't this be done for most or all large intersections?
> 
> The only problem I see with changing the system is the logistics needed to re-educate the entire population, otherwise the system will take 60 years or more to phase in (just let the drivers who learn the old system die off)


But this is simply a matter of preference, not what people should or shouldnt do...Just because something makes sense to you doesnt mean its going to work for others.


----------



## gladisimo

en1044 said:


> But this is simply a matter of preference, not what people should or shouldnt do...Just because something makes sense to you doesnt mean its going to work for others.


Good job, captain obvious.

And, actually, while this is a personal opinion, it does make some valid points, which some forumers here agree with, and at least in the example I provided, obviously, it finds agreement to some of the population, enough so that they changed the signing in the example I stated.


----------



## gladisimo

en1044 said:


> But why have picture based signs when everyone here speaks the same language?


Clear sign that you didn't even read my post. My point, and I believe some people will agree, is that a good subsection of signs CAN be eliminated and the sign can be made simpler, while conveying more information as the initial signs could have.

Not that I'm complaining about the system here, I'm fine with it, but I certainly see the reasoning behind the reasoning used in the European system, and I believe some aspects of it are better than that of the US.


----------



## en1044

gladisimo said:


> Clear sign that you didn't even read my post. My point, and I believe some people will agree, is that a good subsection of signs CAN be eliminated and the sign can be made simpler, while conveying more information as the initial signs could have.
> 
> Not that I'm complaining about the system here, I'm fine with it, but I certainly see the reasoning behind the reasoning used in the European system, and I believe some aspects of it are better than that of the US.


Well first off, back off with the attitude. i read your post and all you did was ignore my counterpoint because you dont want to sem to accept that there are other points of view than your own. Yes i guess they can be eliminated, but theres not enough reasoning to do it. A "good idea" isnt going to cut it. What we have works perfectly fine. If it aint broke, dont fix it.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

en1044 said:


> But why have picture based signs when everyone here speaks the same language?


Just like I mention numerous times before, pictorial signs are much better visible from farer distance. Also, it takes a simple glimpse at the picture to get the message while text requires a slightly longer time to be understood. 

Your argument "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" obviously does not work here because two systems could not compared to determine which one would deliver lower accident rate. If you don't know any better (cause you didn't try), it doesn't mean your current system is not broken.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This is why text signs do not work in Europe:










In the US, that's different.


----------



## en1044

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Just like I mention numerous times before, pictorial signs are much better visible from farer distance. Also, it takes a simple glimpse at the picture to get the message while text requires a slightly longer time to be understood.
> 
> Your argument "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" obviously does not work here because two systems could not compared to determine which one would deliver lower accident rate. If you don't know any better (cause you didn't try), it doesn't mean your current system is not broken.


Isnt it at all possible that countries are different and what works one place doesnt work somewhere else. You cant just go around and say the US needs picture signs because i think they are better. It just wouldnt work here. Theres more information given on signs than in Europe and more variation in the information. The "If it aint broke, dont fix it" does work because the only thing wrong with the US Highway signing system is that you dont approve of it


----------



## Jeroen669

en1044 said:


> But why have picture based signs when everyone here speaks the same language?


1) Written signs need to be much bigger to be observed from the same distance
2) Words can sometimes be different interpreted, symbols are clear for everyone
3) People recognize symbol faster, since the number of them is limited. Written signs can show virtually any message.
4) Non-native english speaking people have more difficulties with written signs than with symbols


----------



## shadyunltd

My only gripe with the US Interstates is the really big gap that exists between the two paved sections. It is really ugly. They should stick both paved sections together and put a concrete barrier or a crash barrier (metal thingy) in the middle to separate both directions.

This saves a lot of land space and on maintenance (not having to mow the lawn or cut the trees in between). 

Why don't they do it in the USA/Canada?

Furthermore, they should really change the fonts that they use on highway signage (mainly exits signs). It's not that it's ugly, but I truly prefer what the Europeans use. Also, the green is really boring, put on some blue for a change.

Finally, they really should do like France and Italy in the sense that they really should cut down on the numbers of toll booths/stations. One or two is enough on a 200 or 300-mile section of a tollway.


----------



## en1044

Jeroen669 said:


> 1) Written signs need to be much bigger to be observed from the same distance
> 2) Words can sometimes be different interpreted, symbols are clear for everyone
> 3) People recognize symbol faster, since the number of them is limited. Written signs can show virtually any message.
> 4) Non-native english speaking people have more difficulties with written signs than with symbols


Theres so much information here in the US symbols just dont work. Sorry, but thinking that something is right because you approve of it isnt a good reason. Europe uses symbols, the US doesnt. Europe has many different laguages, the US doesnt. Theres no need for the US to have pictures and symbols when we all speak the same language. Im sure that your picture signs are great. I dont know, maybe youve had trouble driving on American roads. I would probably have trouble driving on European roads. Say what you will but Americans will never go to picture based signs and therers nothing wrong with that.


----------



## martien

In Mexico we all speak the same language, however we use more symbols than the USA roads. These are our signs for the 'keep right' and 'do not pass' USA words signs:


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

^^ China mainly uses the same language, Russia uses the same language, and the entire American continent south of the USA (except Brazil) uses the same language, yet they all use pictorial signs. So, the argument that the common language prevent the usage of picture-based signs does not work. Due to their historical isolationism, Americans are more conservative (i.e. unwillingness to learn something new even if it will provide benefits in the long run).


----------



## seawastate

In urban areas, the grassy median can also serve as a future right of way for mass transit such as light rail.


----------



## shadyunltd

Still, the majority of the highways (especially Rural highways) that have this grassy median will not be widened inwards as there is not enough traffic to justify it.

Furthermore, it is inaesthetic. Plain ugly and a big waste of space. Unfortunately, in Canada all of our highways are like this, except for a small portion of the 401 near Peterborough. Strangely, I find it to be the best stretch of the 401.

There is a reason why this only exists here. I know North America is vast and all, but this is an useless waste of space, IMO. We really should emulate what Europe has done in every segment of urban planning, especially in terms of highways (signage, fonts, paint, configuration).


----------



## FM 2258

shadyunltd said:


> Still, the majority of the highways (especially Rural highways) that have this grassy median will not be widened inwards as there is not enough traffic to justify it.
> 
> Furthermore, it is inaesthetic. Plain ugly and a big waste of space. Unfortunately, in Canada all of our highways are like this, except for a small portion of the 401 near Peterborough. Strangely, I find it to be the best stretch of the 401.
> 
> There is a reason why this only exists here. I know North America is vast and all, but this is an useless waste of space, IMO. We really should emulate what Europe has done in every segment of urban planning, especially in terms of highways (signage, fonts, paint, configuration).



What's with all the hate on the wide medians? Why would this:










Be better than this? Especially at night. Why would you want to be closer to oncoming traffic when you're on a high speed roadway? Get me as far away from oncoming traffic as possible. 











































...and NO, I don't want our highways to look anything like European or Chinese highways. Narrow medians and funky looking signage aren't for me. Give me green signs that blend better with the surroundings and warning signs with the different colors I've learned to recognize. Orange=construction, Yellow=Warning, Red=restriction....etc. I'm not sure why people on this forum want to change how things are done in the United States so much. It's the way we do it and we don't care how it's done across the pond.


----------



## xzmattzx

The wider medians are mainly for safety measures, I believe. It gives plenty of room for if someone drives off of the road and starts flipping. The big amount of space is basically to let a car slow down and stop (or stop flipping) without being too dangerous to other drivers.


----------



## en1044

its funny how this is such an international forum, where you would think to find open minds, and its exactly the opposite


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

To me, a German autobahn with narrow grass median and a metal guard-rail looks very good from an aesthetical point of view. Wide grass medians without a crash barrier are not safe because it would be very easy to cross this median and collide with oncoming traffic. Such collisions are not uncommon in the USA. On the other hand, metal guard-rails may not be strong enough to prevent head-on collisions. To really ensure the separation of the opposite traffics, a concrete barrier should be built. Yes, it looks ugly and boring, but it is by far the most efficient method in preventing head-on collisions.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Don't forget most collisions with a guardrail are not right at it, but more from the side, so it can keep the car off the other direction lanes. In the Netherlands, we have usually lanes quite close to eachother, though it barely happens when a car or truck manages to break through the barrier.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I was just checking some AADT stats around Chicago, and the I-80 has a staggering 42,000 trucks per day. I think this is the highest in the world, second highest would be the I-710 in Long Beach, California. 

42,000 trucks is a line of 470 miles. You need 2x3 lanes for the trucks alone.


----------



## sonysnob

I see an advantage of a grassed median being that if a vehicle does go off the road where there is no crash barrier, chances are that driver will need nothing more than a tow to moving again. If they hit a guiderail, they will damage their car because of their mistake.


----------



## shadyunltd

FM 2258 said:


> It's the way we do it and we don't care how it's done across the pond.


That attitude is the reason your country is by far the most hated on Earth.

European highways, ChrisZwolle or Alex will confirm, are far better and more efficient than American highways (I include Canada as well). Why not use this opportunity (of learning from them) in order to have better highways.


----------



## mgk920

Chriszwolle said:


> I was just checking some AADT stats around Chicago, and the I-80 has a staggering 42,000 trucks per day. I think this is the highest in the world, second highest would be the I-710 in Long Beach, California.
> 
> 42,000 trucks is a line of 470 miles. You need 2x3 lanes for the trucks alone.


I-80/94 at the Illinois/Indiana state line is now 2x4 and yes, it is about 1/3 big-rigs. It's truly astounding to drive and a major choke point in the USA's transportation network. In Indiana, the big-rig traffic splits about evenly between I-65 towards Indianapolis, I-80/90 (Indiana Toll Road) to the northeastern USA and I-94 into Michigan. In Illinois, it splits about evenly between I-94 into Chicago proper (including some Wisconsin traffic), I-294 (Tri-State Tollway) to the west suburbs, Wisconsin and points northwest and I-80 towards the far western and northwestern USA.

It is a road crying for redundancy.

I-90 (Indiana Toll Road) in that area is fairly lightly used due to the tolls and that it only feeds into the congested Dan Ryan a short distance south of downtown Chicago.

Mike


----------



## Tom 958

*Beware Cordele!*

I drove through Cordele, GA, on I-75 this week, and, if you're going through there yourself, beware. All traffic has been detoured onto the northbound roadway-- nothing new about that for I-75 in Georgia-- but the on- and offramp detours are very poorly configured. There's at least one dead yield for an onramp (no taper or merge lane at all), and the offramp detours are confusing and poorly marked, especially for night travel. Exiting motorists slow to ridiculously low speeds while still in the through lanes because they can't tell where they're supposed to go and there's no decel lane. One of these folks did so in front of me, and I almost got an 18 wheeler up my @$$. Fortunately the 18 wheeler was able to swerve around me, but if traffic were heavier it could've been ugly.

So, be careful out there.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

shadyunltd said:


> European highways, ChrisZwolle or Alex will confirm, are far better and more efficient than American highways (I include Canada as well).


Oh, Chriszwolle is a secret admirer of the USA :lol: Count him out.


----------



## HAWC1506

shadyunltd said:


> That attitude is the reason your country is by far the most hated on Earth.
> 
> European highways, ChrisZwolle or Alex will confirm, are far better and more efficient than American highways (I include Canada as well). Why not use this opportunity (of learning from them) in order to have better highways.


Being a resident in the United States, I really do admire highways in Europe. The concrete rivers we have in California are just a pain to watch and a big waste of space and money. I'd rather a smaller, properly maintained, efficient highway than a mega highway that feels like it's about to fall apart. Americans need to change their way of thinking, the Europeans have a much safer and efficient highway because they are better drivers. We should train our drivers around the roads, not build the roads around the drivers.


----------



## Jeroen669

sonysnob said:


> I see an advantage of a grassed median being that if a vehicle does go off the road where there is no crash barrier, chances are that driver will need nothing more than a tow to moving again. If they hit a guiderail, they will damage their car because of their mistake.


At the end, a damaged car doesn't matter that much anymore if the driver has survived, does it?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

HAWC1506 said:


> Being a resident in the United States, I really do admire highways in Europe. The concrete rivers we have in California are just a pain to watch and a big waste of space and money. I'd rather a smaller, properly maintained, efficient highway than a mega highway that feels like it's about to fall apart. Americans need to change their way of thinking, the Europeans have a much safer and efficient highway because they are better drivers. We should train our drivers around the roads, not build the roads around the drivers.


Your roads could be as good as the European ones, if you guys would pay more taxes. I know you guys are complaining about the high gas prices, however it's nothing compared to most of the world. Even the poorer European countries have a gas prices that's near twice the US gas price.

However, i wouldn't get blinded by the smoothness of some European motorways, since a lot of them are also in disrepair, especially in countries where most of the network is tolled, the non-tolled sections can be in horrible condition (France) and in Germany they are far behind the needed schedule when it comes to road widening and repaving.


----------



## sonysnob

Jeroen669 said:


> At the end, a damaged car doesn't matter that much anymore if the driver has survived, does it?


Why doesn't it? 99% of accidents aren't severe enough to injure a driver, so isn't it a nice bonus that if a driver swerves to miss a deer on the highway they don't smack up their car on a piece of steel, they just roll to a stop on the grass.


----------



## keber

Chriszwolle said:


> I was just checking some AADT stats around Chicago, and the I-80 has a staggering 42,000 trucks per day. I think this is the highest in the world, second highest would be the I-710 in Long Beach, California.
> 
> 42,000 trucks is a line of 470 miles. You need 2x3 lanes for the trucks alone.


That number of trucks is similar to traffic on some Italian highways.


----------



## Verso

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Oh, Chriszwolle is a secret admirer of the USA :lol:


QFT :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Oh, Chriszwolle is a secret admirer of the USA :lol: Count him out.


 you think?



sonysnob said:


> Why doesn't it? 99% of accidents aren't severe enough to injure a driver, so isn't it a nice bonus that if a driver swerves to miss a deer on the highway they don't smack up their car on a piece of steel, they just roll to a stop on the grass.


Actually, most of the car-insurance payments go to parking accidents. 



shadyunltd said:


> European highways, ChrisZwolle or Alex will confirm, are far better and more efficient than American highways (I include Canada as well). Why not use this opportunity (of learning from them) in order to have better highways.


Usually the pavement is better, though American freeways have a capacity that's better adjusted to reality, especially in the midwest. In Europe, they always though not adding capacity reduces traffic. We now know how that turned out.


----------



## mgk920

hoosier said:


> That satellite photo is old. That stretch of highway is 3+1 in Indiana from the state line to I-65.
> 
> Do you honestly think those auxiliary lanes just disappear at the state line?


Since its very recent rebuild (finished last fall), that highway is now 2x4 with an outside auxiliary lane in each direction eastward to just short of I-65 and the part from there to the Indiana Toll Road is now under reconstruction. I-65 is also *closed* for reconstruction from I-80/94 to the Toll Road (I-90).

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

hoosier said:


> Do you honestly think those auxiliary lanes just disappear at the state line?


:crazy: Of course i thought that :crazy: 



> You really are wrong when it comes to freeways. Atlanta, Houston, Dallas and LA have decentralized commercial and office districts and all have horrific traffic congestion. Do you realize how large a freeway network would be needed to service all of these office districts suitably? One that is cost and land prohibitive.You can't all of a sudden develop a whole new freeway network to serve new office parks that were built after the interstates were constructed.


Atlanta has horrible congestion because the density is too low, and there aren't any good alternatives to freeways. (lack of decent surface streets). However, I checked the traffic info a couple of times, and it didn't look too bad to me. Same counts for Houston, but this city is just simply too large for the number of inhabitants. Very inefficient land usage over there. The city could have been half the size almost if every now-unused corner would have been build. 

About Dallas, I think the agglomeration is rather densely (for American standards, better than Houston), but the city didn't grow evenly. Almost all new urban developments took place along the north side, while the southern side almost didn't grow. This means an unevenly distributed traffic flow. Besides that, Dallas doesn't have that many wide freeways like Houston has. 

Well, Los Angeles is pretty clear, as said in that article I posted a while ago, the current capacity is 1/3rd too short to handle the traffic demand. The agglomeration is just so huge, and still growing like hell.

The major problem in US cities with congestion is first geography, (lakes, major rivers, mountain ranges, coastlines (Chicago, Saint Louis, Los Angeles, New York). That's why cities like Kansas City, Nashville, Indianapolis, Oklahoma City or San Antonio only suffer from light to zero congestion. 

To encounter the PT vs roadway problem. The Netherlands invest 10 times as much in Public Transportation as in roadways (relative), but traffic is much worse than most US metropolitan area's. The average Dutch rushhour totals 200 - 250 miles of traffic jam, more than in New York, which has 6 million people more in the agglomeration. There is just no way public transportation can even relief traffic jams in the current mostly low-density setup. Like I said, that's why it works in Manhattan, but not in Houston or Atlanta. 

If you want to solve traffic jams with public transportation, you'll need such a large network, which is much more unaffordable than building some freeways, talking about cost-prohibitive.

Besides that, the Freeway system was mostly build in the 1960's. The U.S. had 180,000,000 inhabitants back then. Right now, there are over 300,000,000 inhabitants, but the freeways didn't grow as much as the population did, resulting in major traffic congestion in some area's. Add that to the fact that most metropolitan areas are huge, and give no other option than drive. That's how the cards are dealt, and that's also not gonna change that much.


----------



## AUchamps

Chriszwolle said:


> :crazy: Of course i thought that :crazy:
> 
> 
> 
> Atlanta has horrible congestion because the density is too low, and there aren't any good alternatives to freeways. (lack of decent surface streets). However, I checked the traffic info a couple of times, and it didn't look too bad to me. Same counts for Houston, but this city is just simply too large for the number of inhabitants. Very inefficient land usage over there. The city could have been half the size almost if every now-unused corner would have been build.
> 
> About Dallas, I think the agglomeration is rather densely (for American standards, better than Houston), but the city didn't grow evenly. Almost all new urban developments took place along the north side, while the southern side almost didn't grow. This means an unevenly distributed traffic flow. Besides that, Dallas doesn't have that many wide freeways like Houston has.
> 
> Well, Los Angeles is pretty clear, as said in that article I posted a while ago, the current capacity is 1/3rd too short to handle the traffic demand. The agglomeration is just so huge, and still growing like hell.
> 
> The major problem in US cities with congestion is first geography, (lakes, major rivers, mountain ranges, coastlines (Chicago, Saint Louis, Los Angeles, New York). That's why cities like Kansas City, Nashville, Indianapolis, Oklahoma City or San Antonio only suffer from light to zero congestion.
> 
> To encounter the PT vs roadway problem. The Netherlands invest 10 times as much in Public Transportation as in roadways (relative), but traffic is much worse than most US metropolitan area's. The average Dutch rushhour totals 200 - 250 miles of traffic jam, more than in New York, which has 6 million people more in the agglomeration. There is just no way public transportation can even relief traffic jams in the current mostly low-density setup. Like I said, that's why it works in Manhattan, but not in Houston or Atlanta.
> 
> If you want to solve traffic jams with public transportation, you'll need such a large network, which is much more unaffordable than building some freeways, talking about cost-prohibitive.
> 
> Besides that, the Freeway system was mostly build in the 1960's. The U.S. had 180,000,000 inhabitants back then. Right now, there are over 300,000,000 inhabitants, but the freeways didn't grow as much as the population did, resulting in major traffic congestion in some area's. Add that to the fact that most metropolitan areas are huge, and give no other option than drive. That's how the cards are dealt, and that's also not gonna change that much.


Do you guys consider the Racial component that I outlined a couple pages back? Seems like something that you guys would want to factor into the way we in the USA built our Interstates and Freeways.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Yeah wasn't that the case with Atlanta? Like they used to like to destroy poorer (black) neighborhoods? That's some sad history if it is true.


----------



## AUchamps

Chriszwolle said:


> ^^ Yeah wasn't that the case with Atlanta? Like they used to like to destroy poorer (black) neighborhoods? That's some sad history if it is true.


They did the same in New Orleans, Houston, and LA. Almost did the same thing in Baltimore and Memphis(not that it made a difference, they still went pretty ghetto). Hell look at Detroit and Miami, Newark and indeed Atlanta.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Currently 200 miles of traffic jam in greater New York. 57 traffic jams, a majority of them are less than 3 miles long. Only a few traffic jams have a delay that's greater than 20 minutes. 

Hot Spots:
* Outbound tunnels
* GW Bridge and I-95
* FDR/Harlem Riv. Drive
* BQE
* Belt Parkway
* I-495 eastbound
* I-95 in Connecticut

Only minor delays in New Jersey. Far majority of the T-jams are in New York state. 

To be frank, it doesn't look THAT bad. However, New York is ranked as the second worse traffic situation in the United States (after Los Angeles). Later I will check out LA (it's not rushhour there yet).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

120 miles of traffic jam in Chicago. 38 traffic jams, over half of them are less than 2 miles, and minor delays at toll plaza's. However there are some major delays.

Hotspots:
* I-90/I-94 Chicago north/westbound both directions
* I-90/I-94 Chicago southbound
* I-290 westbound
* I-55 southbound

Most of these queues have a delay of 20 - 40 minutes. Driving times between downtown and Highland Park is about an hour (35 miles).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Atlanta has only 20 miles of traffic jam. That's nothing, I though traffic was so bad over there? There are currently 8 traffic jams, all but 2 have a delay less than 10 minutes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Houston has 50 miles of traffic jam in 19 traffic jams. Only 2 of them exceed 6 miles in length. That also doesn't seem that much to me. I saw in this NBC report Friday afternoons had the worst traffic. Well, not in Houston I guess.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

40 miles in Dallas-Fort Worth. Is this day not representative for a overall look? These cities are in the top 10 of worst traffic congestion in the U.S.


----------



## Tom 958

Chriszwolle said:


> Atlanta has only 20 miles of traffic jam. That's nothing, I though traffic was so bad over there? There are currently 8 traffic jams, all but 2 have a delay less than 10 minutes.


NFW. Traffic is a lot worse than that here.

But congestion has decreased quite a bit since gas prices started rising. Happened after Katrina, too.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What are the absolute peak hours during the day? In the Netherlands it's around 8.30 am and 17.30 pm. How's that in the US? Some area's (like Los Angeles) are seeing heavy traffic almost all day, however most metropolitan area's seems pretty clear outside rushhours.

And what do you guys call a traffic jam? I got the feeling everything below 50mph is seen as congestion. I was watching the actual traffic speeds in Los Angeles from sigalert.com, but very few locations had traffic speeds less than 15 mph.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Circle Interchange in Chicago from the Sears Tower. This one of the most important interchanges in Chicagoland, I-90/I-94 and I-290 meet here.


----------



## Billpa

Some NYC area stuff from MSN...


Henry Hudson Parkway on the west side of Manhattan...










Henry Hudson a bit to the north...









Junction with Interstate 95 and the George Washington Bridge heading over to New Jersey...









Henry Hudson crosses US Route 9 north of NYC...









Henry Hudson junction: Mosholu Parkway...









Saw Mill Parkway just to the left of Interstate 87, north of NYC...









Saw Mill junction: Cross County Pkwy...









Interstate 95 at the New York-Connecticut state line northeast of NYC...









Interstate 95 in Cos Cob, Connecticut


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I finally found a video of the I-95 in Manhattan. This section is like a mile long, but congested, the expressway has 12 lanes, dives under a few high apartment buildings, and is generally very aged, and not designed for today's traffic volumes (250,000). However, the capacity is higher than the volumes, but the design holds back the capacity greatly.


----------



## hoosier

Chriszwolle said:


> :crazy: Of course i thought that :crazy:
> 
> 
> 
> Atlanta has horrible congestion because the density is too low, and there aren't any good alternatives to freeways. (lack of decent surface streets). However, I checked the traffic info a couple of times, and it didn't look too bad to me. Same counts for Houston, but this city is just simply too large for the number of inhabitants. Very inefficient land usage over there. The city could have been half the size almost if every now-unused corner would have been build.
> 
> About Dallas, I think the agglomeration is rather densely (for American standards, better than Houston), but the city didn't grow evenly. Almost all new urban developments took place along the north side, while the southern side almost didn't grow. This means an unevenly distributed traffic flow. Besides that, Dallas doesn't have that many wide freeways like Houston has.
> 
> Well, Los Angeles is pretty clear, as said in that article I posted a while ago, the current capacity is 1/3rd too short to handle the traffic demand. The agglomeration is just so huge, and still growing like hell.
> 
> The major problem in US cities with congestion is first geography, (lakes, major rivers, mountain ranges, coastlines (Chicago, Saint Louis, Los Angeles, New York). That's why cities like Kansas City, Nashville, Indianapolis, Oklahoma City or San Antonio only suffer from light to zero congestion.
> 
> To encounter the PT vs roadway problem. The Netherlands invest 10 times as much in Public Transportation as in roadways (relative), but traffic is much worse than most US metropolitan area's. The average Dutch rushhour totals 200 - 250 miles of traffic jam, more than in New York, which has 6 million people more in the agglomeration. There is just no way public transportation can even relief traffic jams in the current mostly low-density setup. Like I said, that's why it works in Manhattan, but not in Houston or Atlanta.
> 
> If you want to solve traffic jams with public transportation, you'll need such a large network, which is much more unaffordable than building some freeways, talking about cost-prohibitive.
> 
> Besides that, the Freeway system was mostly build in the 1960's. The U.S. had 180,000,000 inhabitants back then. Right now, there are over 300,000,000 inhabitants, but the freeways didn't grow as much as the population did, resulting in major traffic congestion in some area's. Add that to the fact that most metropolitan areas are huge, and give no other option than drive. That's how the cards are dealt, and that's also not gonna change that much.


Atlanta's low density is in part caused by its sprawling freeway system and the fact that the state and suburbs have refused to expand the reach of MARTA. The American freeway system has undergone extensive reconstruction since it was first built, and traffic persists.

The solution is to spend much more fixing and expanding existing roads (not building new ones) as well as expanding existing and building new mass transit/rail systems.

The fact that so much of America's commuter and intercity rail systems share track with freight cars severely reduces speed and causes huge delays.

Indianapolis does have congestion problems- I should know since I lived there in 2007. But due to its relatively small metro area (along with the other cities you mentioned) traffic isn't too bad. Those cities all have good freeway systems but so do LA and New York (although NY's is very old and needs to be repaired).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> The fact that so much of America's commuter and intercity rail systems share track with freight cars severely reduces speed and causes huge delays.


Rail freight is interesting. I don't think we use that as much in Europe as they do in the United States. Well, most of the European destinations are within a 3 day reach for truckers, although I heard American truckers drive like 800 miles on a day. That's impossible in Europe due to driving times restrictions, you can drive about 450 miles with a truck on one day on this continent.


----------



## Chris_533976

Chriszwolle said:


> I finally found a video of the I-95 in Manhattan. This section is like a mile long, but congested, the expressway has 12 lanes, dives under a few high apartment buildings, and is generally very aged, and not designed for today's traffic volumes (250,000). However, the capacity is higher than the volumes, but the design holds back the capacity greatly.


Good stuff  I'm not 100% sure on the choice of music though.

Heres a quote from another forum with some more pics ->

I70 stretch (hope at least some of these aren't red-x's):


Aspen/Vail area:



























1.6mile long Eisenhower Tunnel:


















That part of I-70 looks siiick with the tunnel.


----------



## HAWC1506

Does anyone know if New York roads are better maintained than California/Texas? I saw the pictures in the previous post and there are some pretty European-looking roads (as in not taking up too much room, decent markings, some well-maintained pavement, etc.)


----------



## jodelli

AUchamps said:


> Do you guys consider the Racial component that I outlined a couple pages back? Seems like something that you guys would want to factor into the way we in the USA built our Interstates and Freeways.


It certainly was a factor in Detroit when the Chrysler freeway (I 75 and 375)was routed down Hastings St., which was the commercial center of the black community at the time.

Where 75 turns sharply SW and becomes the Fisher Fwy it replaced Vernor, which was an east/west surface street, with a large concrete trench that split the area north of Grand Circus Park in two. It effectively cut off most of the Cass Corridor including the large Masonic Temple theatre and several hotels and businesses from the rest of downtown. 
Farther west the same highway cut off Corktown from the increasingly black areas north of Tiger Stadium. 
This was at least one of the contributing factors to the decline of neighborhoods on both sides.

Just a little personal take on the Interstate thing. If my destination is within Detroit or even close in like Ferndale or Royal Oak I will use Woodward Ave. And I'd swear going to Dearborn via Michigan Ave is not much more than a ten minute drive plus a far more direct route than jinking to I 94 or down 75 to Schaefer.


----------



## swaugh3

Are there any photos of the repaving / 14th Street Bridge plans?


----------



## MRichR

Chriszwolle said:


> Very good, they should enforce that much more in the entire United States. Especially on non-busy roads. Rushhour is different, but it's really irritating people sticking to the left when the right lane is free for hundreds of yards or even miles.
> 
> Don't they teach that in drivers ed or something?


It's not the law in every state. Illinois just passed such a law only a few years ago...and of course they don't enforce it.


----------



## gugasounds

I thought the North American Highway begins in Acapulco port. Interstate highway 95-D takes you from Acapulco tho Mexico City, then you connect to Interstate highway 85 that takes you all the way to Laredo, Then you connect to Interstate 35 That will take you to the end of the North American Highway in Minnesota.


----------



## WeimieLvr

tampasteve said:


> The amount of distance and/or lanes. Superhighways I have read about generally have at least 6 lanes on each side. One proposed for Florida has 8 lanes on each side.
> 
> Steve


The Downtown Connector, the I-75/I-85 combination that runs several miles through Atlanta, is 8 lanes on each side much of the way. Sometimes traffic moves, sometimes it doesn't.








http://www.flickr.com/photos/gt7348b/55607824/


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

HAWC1506 said:


> Washington State Patrol stated yesterday that they will start enforcing the passing lane law.
> 
> http://www.komonews.com/news/20656789.html?video=YHI&t=a


It's all good, but at the end a silly anchorman said to "politely" pass slow drivers on the right. If he doesn't know anything about traffic safety, he better keep his mouth shut hno:


----------



## Billpa

Politely?
Should you tip your hat as you drive by?


----------



## AUchamps

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> It's all good, but at the end a silly anchorman said to "politely" pass slow drivers on the right. If he doesn't know anything about traffic safety, he better keep his mouth shut hno:


I'm pretty certain he would've had to have said that in jest.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Billpa said:


> Politely?
> Should you tip your hat as you drive by?


My point was not about word "politely", but about the fact that it is very unsafe to pass on the right, and I believe it should not be allowed in the USA as well. As a matter of fact, passing on the right is strictly prohibited in a number of countries for the reason.


----------



## HAWC1506

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> It's all good, but at the end a silly anchorman said to "politely" pass slow drivers on the right. If he doesn't know anything about traffic safety, he better keep his mouth shut hno:


My guess is sooner or later passing on the right would be outlawed, but drivers in Washington are still getting started with this whole passing law enforcement thing. If you want to pass in the passing lane and someone's just sitting there, in this state, they won't know what "flashing" or "keeping the left turn signal on" means. They're just going to sit there. If you really need to pass, at least for now you have to sometimes pass on the right.

Hopefully that changes though. Drivers here still need to be educated.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> My point was not about word "politely", but about the fact that it is very unsafe to pass on the right, and I believe it should not be allowed in the USA as well. As a matter of fact, passing on the right is strictly prohibited in a number of countries for the reason.


Yeah, you'll get fined passing on the right in Europe. The fine is $ 200. Sticking in the left lane for no reason also an infraction, resulting in a 120 dollar fine.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Chriszwolle said:


> Yeah, you'll get fined passing on the right in Europe. The fine is $ 200. Sticking in the left lane for no reason also an infraction, resulting in a 120 dollar fine.


That is one of the reasons why I like to drive in Europe :cheers:


----------



## Tom 958

swaugh3 said:


> Are there any photos of the repaving / 14th Street Bridge plans?


I should take some, but my picture-downloading chip-thingie doesn't work, and since I was able to use it only twice before it quit working I have an attitude about buying a new one. 

After reading your post this morning, I drove through there on my way home from work a few minutes ago. There's a hilarious one-way detour for Williams Street, and the pylons for the NB 17th Street offramp are all in. Other than that, there's not much to see-- the 14th Street Bridge is gone and there's a lot of grading where Techwood Drive used to be.


----------



## hoosier

Mr. Met said:


> I heard some of a North American Super Highway that would start in Mexico extend through America, and go into Canada. Does anyone know anything about this?


In Texas, it is called the Trans-Texas Corridor. It would essentially parallel I-35.

There is also the NAFTA Superhighway, aka Interstate 69. It would extend south from its current terminus in Indianapolis and pass around Memphis and Houston before ending at the Mexican border in Laredo.


----------



## hoosier

Chicagoago said:


> Amen to that....they REALLY need to get a southern bypass of the Chicago region. I'm glad they widened 80/94 to 8 lanes - but I'd still never go near that thing. I've seen it total gridlock at midnight on a tuesday before with no accidents or other events except far too many trucks and cars trying to squeeze past Lake Michigan.


Take I-90 or U.S. 30, which is a four lane divided highway running south and parallel to I-80/I-94.


----------



## hoosier

Chriszwolle said:


> :cheers: that's impressive.


No it isn't. What a waste of money and land.


----------



## Xusein

I'm surprised that the police here didn't even think about giving someone a ticket for passing on the right...when it comes to making potential revenue, they tend to jump on it. 

And they would make PLENTY of cash for that here.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

^^ I guess it's because passing on the right is not illegal here  Hogging the left lane and passing on the right go hand-in-hand in America, and unless we eliminate the earlier, the latter will continue.


----------



## LtBk

I wonder if Europeans have the sample problem on 2x4 motorways.


----------



## HAWC1506

LtBk said:


> I wonder if Europeans have the sample problem on 2x4 motorways.


Okay just clarifying, does 2x4 mean 2 directions with 4 lanes each?


----------



## LtBk

Yep


----------



## Basincreek

I think it's funny that the rendering shows almost nobody in the HOV lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

hoosier said:


> There is also the NAFTA Superhighway, aka Interstate 69. It would extend south from its current terminus in Indianapolis and pass around Memphis and Houston before ending at the Mexican border in Laredo.


A section in Mississippi south of Memphis is already signed/designated I-69 according to several maps. Between I-55 and US 61. Eventually, the new beltway around Memphis might be designated I-69 too in the near future.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

LtBk said:


> I wonder if Europeans have the sample problem on 2x4 motorways.


Yeah, I hear often about left/middle lane hoggers on the A4 near Schiphol Airport, which has 2x5 lanes, especially on sundays, when there is a lot of traffic that's not very often on (wide) freeways. 



HAWC1506 said:


> Okay just clarifying, does 2x4 mean 2 directions with 4 lanes each?


2x4 is the European version of "8 lanes".


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Basincreek said:


> I think it's funny that the rendering shows almost nobody in the HOV lanes.


I guess they're trying to make a sale by making the HOV lanes look like a freeflow situation where one can avoid traffic jams.


----------



## LtBk

That's just in the Netherlands.Does Europe has the same problem on their 2x4 motorways?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There aren't so many 2x4 motorways in Europe, even in Germany there are only a few short sections that have more than 2x3 lanes. But I don't come there enough to say something about it.


----------



## Verso

Chriszwolle said:


> 2x4 is the European version of "8 lanes".


We say "8 lanes" (ok, more often "4 lanes" :lol, I'd only say "2×4" to make it clear it's not 5+3 or sth..



LtBk said:


> I wonder if Europeans have the sample problem on 2x4 motorways.


I don't think it's terribly wrong to overtake on the right, if there's at least one free lane between you and the one you're overtaking, otherwise it can be dangerous, especially if you're overtaking on the lane right next to the leftmost one.


----------



## Verso

Chriszwolle said:


> There aren't so many 2x4 motorways in Europe, even in Germany there are only a few short sections that have more than 2x3 lanes. But I don't come there enough to say something about it.


I passed by Milan many times and there _is_ more anarchy by 8 lanes, but the leftmost lane is always free or very fast (100 mph and on).


----------



## Jeroen669

I'd suppose it's more a dutch problem than a european one. A lot of drivers just don't care in what lane they're driving in, or what speed they drive here.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

^^ Yeah, I have mentioned couple times that I encountered some slow Dutch drivers in France. They did not quite hog the left lane but rather were slow to move over. Actually, it lines up with some of the Chris' replies here.


----------



## Haljackey

In regards to the NAFTA superhighway, there have been multiple proposals put forth, but none have been approved yet.

Some planned superhighways:









A breakdown of the highway. Separate lanes are allocated for truck traffic, and a rail line runs parallel to the highway.









A quick quote from Wikipedia about the I-69 extention. This would link Texas to Ontario.

Interstate 69 exists in two parts: a completed highway from Indianapolis, Indiana, northeast to the Canadian border in Port Huron, Michigan, and a mostly-proposed extension southwest to the Mexican border in Texas. Of this extension, nicknamed *the NAFTA Superhighway*, since it would help trade with Canada and Mexico spurred by the North American Free Trade Agreement, only a short piece in northwestern Mississippi has been built and signed as I-69. Other sections, such as those in Kentucky and Tennessee, exist but are yet to be signed.

*The southern terminus of the existing portion is at Interstate 465*, the beltway around Indianapolis, on the northeast side of that city. The last bit of I-69 overlaps I-94 to the Blue Water Bridge across the St. Clair River, where *traffic continues on Highway 402 in the Canadian province of Ontario.*


----------



## Xusein

There are so much things wrong with that map that I don't know where to begin.


----------



## Verso

Haljackey said:


>


Why is the Mexican flag in the middle of the US?


----------



## Positronn

Seems like US and most of american countries haven't woken up to railways and massive public transport yet. We'll learn it the hard way, unfortunately.


----------



## Jeroen669

A superhighway to Churchill while currently that city doesn't even have a road connection at all? :nuts:


----------



## trainrover

Positronn said:


> Seems like US and most of american countries haven't woken up to railways and massive public transport yet. We'll learn it the hard way, unfortunately.


Nonsense -- -- hmph, it's more _our_ incessantly being sedated by some heckuva lonely economic engine...

_Exactly_ how long has it been wrong now to mention our being tricked?


----------



## vancouverite/to'er

Positronn said:


> Seems like US and most of american countries haven't woken up to railways and massive public transport yet. We'll learn it the hard way, unfortunately.


Toronto gets it the worst. Our dickhead primeminister hates us and our transit budget is half that of Pheonix metro's!


----------



## trainrover

^^ Hey! the guy mentioned the land masses, not some lakeside sore...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Positronn said:


> Seems like US and most of american countries haven't woken up to railways and massive public transport yet. We'll learn it the hard way, unfortunately.


The US is not build in a way that public transport can resolve traffic problems, or meet transportation demands. Besides that, trucks are the most efficient way to transport nearly all kinds of goods domestically. The US is actually far ahead on Europe with freight rail transport.


----------



## Xusein

Depends on where in the US...where I live, freight rail is incredibly underutilized. About 3% of all freight is done by rail. Most of the rest is done by trucks that crowd our highways that already have too much rush hour traffic. Many other parts of the US don't have this problem... 

But including to that very inaccurate map, the Superhighway would go through Hartford!




Jeroen669 said:


> A superhighway to Churchill while currently that city doesn't even have a road connection at all? :nuts:


It will be our outlet to the Northwest Passage! :banana2:


----------



## hoosier

Chriszwolle said:


> A section in Mississippi south of Memphis is already signed/designated I-69 according to several maps. Between I-55 and US 61. Eventually, the new beltway around Memphis might be designated I-69 too in the near future.


That is accurate. In my state of Indiana, the state DOT is preparing to start construction on a 2-mile stretch of new terrain I-69 from I-164 to SR 68. $700 million has been allocated to new terrain I-69 construction (a total waste of money in my opinion because the existing I-69 is in serious need of upgrade).


----------



## hoosier

Chriszwolle said:


> The US is not build in a way that public transport can resolve traffic problems, or meet transportation demands. Besides that, trucks are the most efficient way to transport nearly all kinds of goods domestically. The US is actually far ahead on Europe with freight rail transport.


That is not true at all. Just about every metro area in the U.S. would benefit greatly from commuter rail and good public transportation.

And trucks are a horrible way of transporting goods, but since so many freight lines have been abandoned and torn up, there really is no other way to transport goods in the U.S. This was a conscious choice by government.

Transportation in the U.S. only works well when fuel is cheap, and the expectation that it would remain so demonstrates the utter lack of foresight by the government at all levels.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

hoosier said:


> That is not true at all. Just about every metro area in the U.S. would benefit greatly from commuter rail and good public transportation.


The problem is that rail & transit only handle 0.6% of the total passenger mileage, while it obviously costs more than 0.6% of the total budget. Public Transportation is more expensive per passenger mile to construct and operate a lightrail or other kinds of PT. Besides that, the problem is that the government can't charge the full price of PT, because nobody would take it then. So the government has to offer all kinds of discounts to get people into public transportation. That money has to come from somewhere. I don't say PT needs to be profitable, but a bag of money would be nice to construct more PT. 



> And trucks are a horrible way of transporting goods, but since so many freight lines have been abandoned and torn up, there really is no other way to transport goods in the U.S. This was a conscious choice by government.


The problem is that railways are not the way to serve our "just-in-time" modern society. They are only good for large bulk freights, like ore or grain. You have to take into account, that even in Europe, with twice the fuel price in the United States, the most efficient way of transport goods is still the diesel truck. 



> Transportation in the U.S. only works well when fuel is cheap, and the expectation that it would remain so demonstrates the utter lack of foresight by the government at all levels.


Fuel IS cheap in the U.S. only you don't realize that because you've gone from super-cheap to cheap fuel. The current rising fuel prices are just a bad time before we all change to electric cars, or hydrogen cars and trucks. It's not like that if we run out of affordable oil, our roads will turn into useless dust, as some may suggest.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Very good:


----------



## bgplayer19

What a nonsense!Why would they built a multilane higway all the way to Churchill(pop:1000 I think).In my point of view it's better to connect Winnipeg and Regina


----------



## Haljackey

bgplayer19 said:


> What a nonsense!Why would they built a multilane higway all the way to Churchill(pop:1000 I think).In my point of view it's better to connect Winnipeg and Regina


Mainly because Churchill is the gateway to Hudson Bay and the Northwest passage. As Global Warming continues to intensify, these waterways will become more and more important. Churchill could become a major port destination because of its location. It is cheaper to unload goods at Churchill than sailing through the Panama Canal and then up to the St. Laurence Seaway. (Just an example.)


----------



## HAWC1506

Chriszwolle said:


> Very good:


The same law goes into effect July 1st for Washington too, not just California. :banana:


----------



## Timon91

^^Any other states with this law?


----------



## Timon91

-double post-


----------



## Schweden

Verso said:


> Why is the Mexican flag in the middle of the US?


That's something we're not supposed to know about  :lol:


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Timon Kruijk said:


> Any other states with this law?


As of today, New York, Connecticut, New Jersey, Utah, California and Washington (the latter two enacted this today).

From my experience, I am wondering how Californians adjust to that :lol: Also, this new law is a good news for cellular companies driving their bluetooth accessories sales up.


----------



## Timon91

Hopefully all states will eventually enact this law, it's much safer.


----------



## Solanis_Rep

Well, sending text messages is still allowed in California, and that's arguably even more dangerous. But, at least it's a step forward.


----------



## HAWC1506

Does anyone know what type of laws their are in Germany regarding cellphone usage, putting on makeup, eating, etc.?


----------



## shadyunltd

It's now into effect in Canada, as of today.

Been already using my Bluetooth headset for a while anyway so no big change for me.


----------



## hoosier

Chriszwolle said:


> The problem is that railways are not the way to serve our "just-in-time" modern society. They are only good for large bulk freights, like ore or grain. You have to take into account, that even in Europe, with twice the fuel price in the United States, the most efficient way of transport goods is still the diesel truck.
> 
> 
> 
> Fuel IS cheap in the U.S. only you don't realize that because you've gone from super-cheap to cheap fuel. The current rising fuel prices are just a bad time before we all change to electric cars, or hydrogen cars and trucks. It's not like that if we run out of affordable oil, our roads will turn into useless dust, as some may suggest.



Railroads can easily serve just about every city in the U.S, and much more cheaply too. Trucks can serve as short distance haulers of goods. It is conscious government policy that has made America dependent on trucks to deliver and transport almost all goods.

We will have to see if the auto industry develops cars that use something other than hydrocarbons as fuel. They have been dragging their feet for decades. And I doubt they would do anything to undermine the financial success of the oil industry.

And there are so many other benefits of having development patterns centered around mass transit: less sprawl and environmental destruction, less congested roads, etc.


----------



## OakRidge

> It is conscious government policy that has made America dependent on trucks to deliver and transport almost all goods


Taking that into consideration it is interesting to note than in 2007 the United States transported more freight (billions of tonne-kilometers) than any other nation by rail.


----------



## HAWC1506

I was setting up the bluetooth connection for my dad yesterday in our car. We did everything right, except the instructions didn't say that "accurate and proper English must be spoken for the computer to recognize your voice commands." I guess I'll need to sign him up for an English course haha :nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

HAWC1506 said:


> Does anyone know what type of laws their are in Germany regarding cellphone usage, putting on makeup, eating, etc.?


As far as I know, using a cell phone is prohibited, but other stuff like controlling the radio, eating, drinking, smoking etc. is allowed. Those things are hardly enforcable, but arguably dangerous too. The fine for handheld calling in the Netherlands is 205 dollars. The fines in California are laughable, with 20 dollars for the first offense, and 50 dollars for subsequent offenses. Well, it gives the highway patrol some work to do while patrolling.


----------



## keber

Most prices for traffic offenses in US are laughable, comparing to many EU countries.


----------



## ABRob

HAWC1506 said:


> Does anyone know what type of laws their are in Germany regarding cellphone usage, putting on makeup, eating, etc.?


Holding a cellphone or a car phone in your hand and using it while the motor is on is forbiden.
The rest is not regulated.


----------



## Timon91

^^That's the same as it is in NL. It costs, as Chris already mentioned, approximately 140 euros (I'm not sure) if you get caught.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

An American insurance company has conducted a study of which cities are the safest (traffic accidents). This is their top ten:

Top 10 safest cities
1. Sioux Falls, South Dakota
2. Fort Collins, Colorado
3. Chattanooga, Tennessee 
4. Sterling Heights, Michigan 
5. Warren, Michigan 
6. Knoxville, Tennessee 
7. Grand Rapids, Michigan 
8. Cedar Rapids, Iowa 
9. Lexington, Kentucky 
10. Detroit, Michigan 

Last is Washington D.C.


----------



## Xusein

The cell phone law is totally unenforceable...people here don't care about it.


----------



## Timon91

@Chris: is there a site where you can see the whole list?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ I don't have the entire list, it was presented on CNN this way.


----------



## [email protected]

Chriszwolle said:


> An American insurance company has conducted a study of which cities are the safest (traffic accidents). This is their top ten:
> 
> Top 10 safest cities
> 1. Sioux Falls, South Dakota
> 2. Fort Collins, Colorado
> 3. Chattanooga, Tennessee
> 4. Sterling Heights, Michigan
> 5. Warren, Michigan
> 6. Knoxville, Tennessee
> 7. Grand Rapids, Michigan
> 8. Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> 9. Lexington, Kentucky
> 10. Detroit, Michigan
> 
> Chris I am surprised Washington DC is dead last. I would have given that doubtful honour to Boston drivers. Driving in that city puts years on your life !! Scary boston drivers


----------



## Solanis_Rep

Chriszwolle said:


> The fines in California are laughable, with 20 dollars for the first offense, and 50 dollars for subsequent offenses. Well, it gives the highway patrol some work to do while patrolling.


Really? And they were telling us in the local news recently, that fines for the first offense were going to be $90. Additionally, I think I heard also, that for the first month or so, cities can give people warnings rather than a citation. That is, if they want to. Otherwise citation it is.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ I got it from the caltrans site.


----------



## HAWC1506

I think in Washington, cellphone use is a second-offense. You can't be pulled over for talking on a cellphone. But if you were caught breaking another law (speeding, driving in the left lane, DUI) AND talking on the cellphone, you will be charged for both offenses.


----------



## HAWC1506

Please...no... 

WASHINGTON (AP) -- An influential Republican senator suggested Thursday that Congress might want to consider reimposing a national speed limit to save gasoline and possibly ease fuel prices.

Sen. John Warner has asked the Energy Department at what speeds vehicles would be most fuel efficient.

Sen. John Warner, R-Virginia, asked Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman to look into what speed limit would provide optimum gasoline efficiency given current technology. He said he wants to know if the administration might support efforts in Congress to require a lower speed limit.

Congress in 1974 set a national 55 mph speed limit because of energy shortages caused by the Arab oil embargo. The speed limit was repealed in 1995 when crude oil dipped to $17 a barrel and gasoline cost $1.10 a gallon.

As motorists headed on trips for this Fourth of July weekend, gasoline averaged $4.10 a gallon nationwide, with oil hovering around $145 a barrel.

Warner cited studies that showed the 55 mph speed limit saved 167,000 barrels of oil a day, or 2 percent of the country's highway fuel consumption, while avoiding up to 4,000 traffic deaths a year.

"Given the significant increase in the number of vehicles on America's highway system from 1974 to 2008, one could assume that the amount of fuel that could be conserved today is far greater," Warner wrote Bodman.

Warner asked the department to determine at what speeds vehicles would be most fuel efficient, how much fuel savings would be achieved, and whether it would be reasonable to assume there would be a reduction in prices at the pump if the speed limit were lowered.

Energy Department spokeswoman Angela Hill said the department will review Warner's letter but added, "If Congress is serious about addressing gasoline prices, they must take action on expanding domestic oil and natural gas production."

The department's Web site says that fuel efficiency decreases rapidly when traveling faster than 60 mph. Every additional 5 mph over that threshold is estimated to cost motorists "essentially an additional 30 cents per gallon in fuel costs," Warner said in his letter, citing the DOE data.


----------



## LtBk

I guess that Senator didn't learned that the 55 mph limit was a big failure back than and will be a big failure now. They did it just for revenue.


----------



## Verso

I'd get a high blood pressure driving so slowly on freeways.


----------



## en1044

what they need to do is STRONGLY enforce the speed limit


----------



## en1044

Chriszwolle said:


> An American insurance company has conducted a study of which cities are the safest (traffic accidents). This is their top ten:
> 
> Top 10 safest cities
> 1. Sioux Falls, South Dakota
> 2. Fort Collins, Colorado
> 3. Chattanooga, Tennessee
> 4. Sterling Heights, Michigan
> 5. Warren, Michigan
> 6. Knoxville, Tennessee
> 7. Grand Rapids, Michigan
> 8. Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> 9. Lexington, Kentucky
> 10. Detroit, Michigan
> 
> Last is Washington D.C.


i would believe it, those damn maryland drivers ruin everything!

but seriously, people driving here really do suck


----------



## Timon91

How are the drivers in Washington State?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Hmmm I made some longdistance journeys the past half year, and 70-75 mph was still the most fuel efficient. I also did a lot of 60/65 mph, but that used slightly more gasoline. Your gasoline consumption stands or falls with the flow of traffic, not the speed driven in the first time. You can better do 80 mph on a freeflowing freeway than 30 mph inside cities with traffic jams and traffic lights.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It makes much more sense to buy a European MPV instead of a Chevy Suburban or a big Ford something like that. Saves you way more gasoline than driving grandpa-style on the freeway.


----------



## HAWC1506

Timon Kruijk said:


> How are the drivers in Washington State?


Well that's a hard question. Speed limits generally are not followed, and 10-over is pretty common. There are some quirks like not keeping right except to pass (although it's getting better), and blocking intersections when they're in a line. But other than that, I'd say Washington drivers are about as polite as drivers can be. If they followed the rules a bit more, it would be perfect.

But still, grandmas in the passing lane is definitely the most annoying thing.

P.S. About the 10-over thing: We were doing 80 in rural central Washington where the speed limit was 70. We passed a highway patrol and he didn't seem to care.


----------



## Timon91

^^Thanks! And can you tell my something about the US-395?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What do you guys think about Philadelphia? How's traffic there? Traffic.com doesn't report that many traffic jams, though I see on Google Earth there aren't so many expressways, and the ones that exist aren't wide (Schuylkill is only 4 lanes). They have some massive boulevards though, the Roosevelt Boulevard is 12 lanes wide. 

However, Philly's suburbs are not very dense, spread out, and the agglomeration sprawls out over a gigantic area, also in New Jersey. Philadelphia city proper, however, looks very old, especially the residential area's. 

I really love the name "Philadelphia". I think it's one of the most beautiful names for any major US city.


----------



## hoosier

I thought it worth mentioning that there will be a formal groundbreaking ceremony on Monday, July 14th for construction on the first segment of new terrain I-69 in Indiana. The segment is 1.77 miles long and will run from the I-64/I-164 interchange to SR 68. The price tag is $25.3 million.


Furthermore, the state plans to have work either finished or substantially completed on the first three segments of I-69 by 2015. This would mean a limited access freeway would exist from I-64 to U.S. 231 just NW of Crane Naval Warfare Center, a distance of nearly 70 miles.


----------



## hoosier

Chriszwolle said:


> What do you guys think about Philadelphia? How's traffic there? Traffic.com doesn't report that many traffic jams, though I see on Google Earth there aren't so many expressways, and the ones that exist aren't wide (Schuylkill is only 4 lanes). They have some massive boulevards though, the Roosevelt Boulevard is 12 lanes wide.
> 
> However, Philly's suburbs are not very dense, spread out, and the agglomeration sprawls out over a gigantic area, also in New Jersey. Philadelphia city proper, however, looks very old, especially the residential area's.
> 
> I really love the name "Philadelphia". I think it's one of the most beautiful names for any major US city.



Philadelphia is a very old city by American standards, having been founded by Quakers in the 1680s.

The city had an extensive freeway system planned but many routes were cancelled as they would have carved thorugh dense and long-established neighborhoods. Coincidentally, there were also plans for a far more extensive subway system in the city than exists today.

Currently, I think the Philadelphia metro area has an adequate freeway system in terms of coverage and length but their location and especially condition leave much to be desired. The poor condition of the roads is due to their old age. As with most urban freeway systems, Philly's requires extensive upgrading and lane addition in certain parts.


----------



## geogregor

FM 2258 said:


> Wow that sounds like a great trip. I'll definitely take some pictures.


We drove from Orlando through New Orleans, El Paso, Phoenix, Grand Canyon, Las Vegas, Death Valley, Yosemite, San Francisco to LA and then all the way back to Florida, to Miami actually.
It was around 6500 miles in 15 days :nuts:
Unfortunately it was before I bought my camera so I don't really have pictures from that trip 
But I didn't make this mistake again and next time I went to US I had my camera ready


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Abandoned Pennsylvania Turnpike, not far east from Breezewood, PA.














































This section included 3 tunnels, which had, at that time, only one tube. It was considered less expensive to construct a whole new section of the Turnpike than to add a second tube.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Delaware Bridge between Delaware and New Jersey. It currently carries Interstate 295, however I think they'd better reroute I-95 across this bridge and the New Jersey Turnpike, giving a more direct route between New York and Baltimore.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interstate 70 in the Glenwood Canyon, Colorado:









Highway number overlap of two different states:









Underground Coal Fire in Centralia, PA destroying a State Route:


----------



## mgk920

Chriszwolle said:


> Abandoned Pennsylvania Turnpike, not far east from Breezewood, PA.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> This section included 3 tunnels, which had, at that time, only one tube. It was considered less expensive to construct a whole new section of the Turnpike than to add a second tube.


This section of abandoned highway, including the two tunnels, is being converted into a bicycle/recreation trail.

I have always thought that it would me a great location for shooting post-apocalyptic movies, too.

Mike


----------



## hoosier

Chriszwolle said:


> The Delaware Bridge between Delaware and New Jersey. It currently carries Interstate 295, however I think they'd better reroute I-95 across this bridge and the New Jersey Turnpike, giving a more direct route between New York and Baltimore.


Well, changing the number of the turnpike really doesn't make any difference. The reason the southern part of the NJ turnpike is not numbered I-95 is because the Federal Highway administration wanted I-95 to run through Philadelphia. Originally, I-95 was meant to continue north from Ternton, NJ and merge with the NJ Turnpike in SW Metro New York City near New Brunswick, but residents along the corridor revolted and it was never built.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somerset_Freeway


Currently, Pennsylvania is constructing an interchange between I-276 and I-95, afterwards the easternmost leg of I-276 will be designated as I-95 which ends at the NJ Turnpike SE of Trenton. Then I-95 and the NJ Turnpike will run together through the rest of the state.


----------



## xzmattzx

Chriszwolle said:


> What do you guys think about Philadelphia? How's traffic there? Traffic.com doesn't report that many traffic jams, though I see on Google Earth there aren't so many expressways, and the ones that exist aren't wide (Schuylkill is only 4 lanes). They have some massive boulevards though, the Roosevelt Boulevard is 12 lanes wide.
> 
> However, Philly's suburbs are not very dense, spread out, and the agglomeration sprawls out over a gigantic area, also in New Jersey. Philadelphia city proper, however, looks very old, especially the residential area's.
> 
> I really love the name "Philadelphia". I think it's one of the most beautiful names for any major US city.


The Schuylkill Expressway is terrible. It is 30 years outdated, but they can't widen it because it's along the river. It jams up all of the time.


----------



## xzmattzx

hoosier said:


> Well, changing the number of the turnpike really doesn't make any difference. The reason the southern part of the NJ turnpike is not numbered I-95 is because the Federal Highway administration wanted I-95 to run through Philadelphia. Originally, I-95 was meant to continue north from Ternton, NJ and merge with the NJ Turnpike in SW Metro New York City near New Brunswick, but residents along the corridor revolted and it was never built.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somerset_Freeway
> 
> 
> Currently, Pennsylvania is constructing an interchange between I-276 and I-95, afterwards the easternmost leg of I-276 will be designated as I-95 which ends at the NJ Turnpike SE of Trenton. Then I-95 and the NJ Turnpike will run together through the rest of the state.


Additionally, the Federal government was lucky to be able to sign any part of the Turnpike as I-95. new Jersey built the Turnpike and other expressways before the Interstates, and I beliebe that they originally told the government to build a completely new I-95 all the way into New York.

I think it's fine the way that it is, with I-295 carrying traffic to the New Jersey Turnpike. Traffic can get bad here in Delaware as you apporach the split, since out-of-state traffic is weaving all over the place to get into a lane for their destination, but the state puts up signs that are miles ahead telling people what side of I-95 they need to get on, depending on if they're going to Philadelphia or New York. I think the first sign telling people about the split is right when you cross in from Maryland.


----------



## HAWC1506

I am going to be meeting two WSDOT engineers for a job shadow in a few days. If you guys would like me to ask them any questions, please tell me, and I will try to take some notes.


----------



## Timon91

Yesterday I made some pics of the I-95 north, and of the I-93 north. Boston centre-Peabody. I'll post them when I get home (takes another month), because I've left my camera cable at home.


----------



## go_leafs_go02

H123Laci said:


> Cool!
> 
> So you need a fake moustache and a sunglasses and you are untouchable... :lol:


you haven't seen the latest episode of Top Gear then have you?


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

HAWC1506 said:


> I am going to be meeting two WSDOT engineers for a job shadow in a few days. If you guys would like me to ask them any questions, please tell me, and I will try to take some notes.


Yeah, why the hell the WA DOT switched back to outdated US customary system? :bash:


----------



## Timon91

I also made some pics of the state road 2 in MA. Quite a good road actually (also for speeding, on sunday morning )


----------



## mgk920

Timon Kruijk said:


> I also made some pics of the state road 2 in MA. Quite a good road actually (also for speeding, on sunday morning )


Kewl, can you post them in the Non-interstate thread? I'd like to see them.

:cheers1:

Mike


----------



## Timon91

^^I will, as soon as I get home. Now I just have to take care that I don't accidently delete all my pics.


----------



## HAWC1506

Okay guys, here's a batch of pictures. There are I-90, I-405 and I-5 in Washington State. I took them on my trip to Mt. Rainier. Sorry about the quality though, I was stuck in the third row of a Toyota Sienna.

I-90. This one's a little confusing. The Eastbound direction is cut off on the right. So what you are seeing is westbound and an on-ramp.









Right before the I-90 and I-405 interchange. I had to take this out the back window.









Again









On a I-405 ramp overpass









I-405 pics




































Now here are I-5s coming back from the trip.



























Then a few more I-405s






















































I-405 coming onto I-90









A little past the I-405 and I-90 interchange. The left ramp is a direct access HOV ramp. Notice the salmon by the junction.









Enjoy!


----------



## Verso

Beautiful and smooth. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## HAWC1506

LtBk said:


> From what i read, left hoggers are common in Seattle and Portland areas. Americans drivers are so selfish.


Left lane hogging is an epidemic in Seattle, it drives me nuts, omgahh :bash:


----------



## HAWC1506

Chriszwolle said:


> Instead of those "exit only" signs, they should make a different road marking for exit lanes. We do it this way in the Netherlands:


The U.S. does too, at least in Washington.


----------



## HAWC1506

Is someone hired to mow the grass on Dutch highways? That looks better than my lawn.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ They do that from time to time. However, sometimes American landscaping looks even better. In the Netherlands, it's just grass, in other countries they also put some nice palm trees, flowers, etc.


----------



## Timon91

And in the Netherlands the grass stays greener because we don't have the big droughts like in the US. In Georgia some people paint their grass green because they're not allowed to water it.


----------



## Xusein

Here, they make small-time offenders and laborers mow the lawns in the median.

Always seeing big yellow signs with the word "MOWING" frequently.

I feel sorry for them at times, especially when it's hot like it is now.


----------



## pwalker

HAWC1506 said:


> Left lane hogging is an epidemic in Seattle, it drives me nuts, omgahh :bash:


Yes, and what is even more frustrating is many do it on purpose because they don't want people driving over the speed limit. Seattle is filled with elitist drivers who would be run off the road in places like Boston or D.C.


----------



## HAWC1506

Chriszwolle said:


> ^^ They do that from time to time. However, sometimes American landscaping looks even better. In the Netherlands, it's just grass, in other countries they also put some nice palm trees, flowers, etc.


Most of the time though, the median is just a concrete barrier and it is really an eye sore. Concrete becomes dark and cracks after a while and it gives a sort of old, run-down feeling to the highway. 



10ROT said:


> Here, they make small-time offenders and laborers mow the lawns in the median.
> 
> Always seeing big yellow signs with the word "MOWING" frequently.
> 
> I feel sorry for them at times, especially when it's hot like it is now.


I sometimes see Washington State troopers supervise traffic violators picking up trash off to the side of the road.

Now, here's my vision of an ideal U.S. highway.


----------



## LtBk

pwalker said:


> Yes, and what is even more frustrating is many do it on purpose because they don't want people driving over the speed limit. Seattle is filled with elitist drivers who would be run off the road in places like Boston or D.C.


Baltimore has those drivers too.


----------



## HAWC1506

LtBk said:


> Baltimore has those drivers too.


I'd love it if a law was passed that would suspend licenses for a year for passing on the right and hogging the left lane. Half the drivers in the U.S. will disappear.


----------



## LtBk

Yet some European forumers think US drivers are disciplined.


----------



## HAWC1506

LtBk said:


> Yet some European forumers think US drivers are disciplined.


oh good god...well I guess there's a difference between polite and disciplined. Polite, yes I think American drivers are much more polite than European drivers.


----------



## Xusein

It depends on the metro.

Connecticut drivers are relatively polite (they suck, but it's more of a passive style), but drivers in Boston and New York are not in any word polite. Road rage is common there.


----------



## rick1016

This question may have already been asked, but are there certain areas in the US where Interstates are paved specifically with asphalt, and others concrete?


----------



## HAWC1506

rick1016 said:


> This question may have already been asked, but are there certain areas in the US where Interstates are paved specifically with asphalt, and others concrete?


Generally, areas with high volume traffic are paved with Portland Concrete Cement. Outside of city cores though, the pavement becomes Hot-Mixed Dense-Graded Asphalt. Then once you get into mountains where there are colder, harsher weather patterns, again the road surface will become concrete. The reasoning behind that is because concrete is less prone to rutting from studded tires.

Sometimes though for resurfacing projects in city cores, another type of pavement is used. It's called polyester concrete. Regular PCC pavement takes weeks to dry and fully settle and obviously, it is impossible to close down an entire highway in the middle of downtown for a month. The polyester concrete is then used because it dries in two to three hours. In Seattle once, it rained during resurfacing so crews bought an old jet engine that was turned into a giant blow dryer to help the polyester concrete dry. During that project, 2 to 3 lanes of northbound I-5 closed around the clock Aug. 10-25, 2007 for 1.13 miles.

Now there are several pilot projects that are beginning to use Open-Graded Friction-Course asphalt, which is porous and as a result, much quieter. Those are generally in the suburbs where residential units are close to the highway. Currently, two types of quieter asphalt are being tested. There is a polymer-modified asphalt and there is also a rubberized asphalt and both are porous. They are currently being tested for durability. 

Then there is also quieter concrete, but that is just PCC with different texturing techniques. Here's the Washington DOT Description:

Quieter concrete – made quieter by using different texturing techniques. 

* Longitudinal tining – creates shallow channels in the concrete using a rake. Longitudinal tining is different than traditional transverse tining because the channels are made in the direction of traffic flow.
* Diamond and whisper grinding – used on existing concrete. Crews use diamond saw blades to remove a thin layer of hardened concrete creating a texture pattern similar to corduroy.
* Dragging – includes carpet, burlap and Astroturf™ dragging. Crews drag an inverted section of artificial turf or other material behind the paving machine. 

Just for fun, here's the blow dryer:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

About the noise issue;

PAC is the quietest, but also needs to be repaved the most often. Hence, where you need it the most (urban area's), you can't because you would have to repave roads around the clock. I noticed PAC already has track formation in 2 - 3 years after being paved. 

PAC is doing very well in rain (no splashing up), but it does particularly bad in ice storms, since all the vents will fill up with ice, so you can practically ice skate on it. Therefore, PAC is not suited for area's which are prone to ice and snowstorms.


----------



## HAWC1506

^^

Could you tell me what PAC stands for? I don't think I have ever heard that term before. By the way, I think it was in the German Autobahn thread when we were talking about pavements, you mentioned Dense-graded Asphalt Cement used on the Autobahn. That turns out to be similar to what most northern states in the U.S. use. Dense-graded Asphalt Cement is similar to the dense-graded hot-mixed asphalt. I am not sure what the slight differences are, the engineer that I asked only said that "HMA and asphalt concrete are similar."



Chriszwolle said:


> I noticed PAC already has track formation in 2 - 3 years after being paved.


Wow that's not a very durable pavement. Do you know where they are used? I doubt that will ever pass in the United States since we tend to build a road and leave it for 15-20 years before touching it again...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

PAC = Porous Asphalt Concrete.


----------



## HAWC1506

Chriszwolle said:


> PAC = Porous Asphalt Concrete.


Ohhh yeah Washington tested a type of porous asphalt and ruts developed within four years.

Here's a picture.









Now here's the data for quieter pavement.









I'm guessing that the drop in April was due to the steep rise in gas prices, resulting in less noise on the highway.


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## sonysnob

^ that pic looks like the road was opened to traffic when the asphalt was to warm


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## HAWC1506

sonysnob said:


> ^ that pic looks like the road was opened to traffic when the asphalt was to warm


Nope, that was the quieter porous asphalt rutting after four years of studded tire damage. It was taken back in the mid-1990s.


----------



## Smallville

LtBk said:


> Best in what? I personally think US drivers are stupid compared to European drivers(with some exceptions of course).


There are bad drives everywhere on the planet. Drive defensively! Plenty of stupid European drivers as well.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That pic looks extremely bad, I've never seen it like that in the Netherlands.


----------



## mgk920

Chriszwolle said:


> That pic looks extremely bad, I've never seen it like that in the Netherlands.


Nederlands doesn't allow tires with tungsten carbide studs implanted in them like many USA states do, either. They are used in many northern and western USA states for better traction on ice. Illinois, Minnesota and Wisconsin all outlawed them (Wisconsin in about 1975 after 10 years or so of legality) because of the severe damage that they do to roads - they literally grind the surfaces away leaving dangerous and expensive to repair/replace ruts.

When I was in the Denver, CO area in the mid-1990s, the tire stud damage was so heavy that driving on the metro's freeways was like driving on cobblestones and the paving on one freeway (I-270) was worn so deep that it was even breaking through in places. This wear was even evident on the newly paved parts of I-25 in the downtown and near north area - one could follow the progress of construction related traffic lane shifts by the stud rut patterns.

hno:

Mike


----------



## HAWC1506

mgk920 said:


> Nederlands doesn't allow tires with tungsten carbide studs implanted in them like many USA states do, either. They are used in many northern and western USA states for better traction on ice. Illinois, Minnesota and Wisconsin all outlawed them (Wisconsin in about 1975 after 10 years or so of legality) because of the severe damage that they do to roads - they literally grind the surfaces away leaving dangerous and expensive to repair/replace ruts.
> 
> When I was in the Denver, CO area in the mid-1990s, the tire stud damage was so heavy that driving on the metro's freeways was like driving on cobblestones and the paving on one freeway (I-270) was worn so deep that it was even breaking through in places. This wear was even evident on the newly paved parts of I-25 in the downtown and near north area - one could follow the progress of construction related traffic lane shifts by the stud rut patterns.
> 
> hno:
> 
> Mike


The Netherlands have pretty cold temperatures don't they? How do they drive on ice then?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, we don't have much real cold. A bit of freezing during the winter. Spikes are not allowed in NL. However, they usually need to patch up some freeways after wintery conditions.


----------



## He Named Thor

Chriszwolle said:


> Instead of those "exit only" signs, they should make a different road marking for exit lanes. We do it this way in the Netherlands:



Wisconsin and Illinois (and I assume the rest of the country) do the exact same lines. The "EXIT ONLY" signs are in addition to the lines, and inform you that you need to be in that lane for that specific exit.


----------



## HAWC1506

When I questioned WSDOT about exit-only lanes, they told me that as a general rule (in the U.S. at least), they take away lanes from the right. So if they want to drop a motorway from four lanes to three lanes, they will turn the very right lane into an exit only lane. Somehow to me, that seems a bit weird since travel lanes are to your right. You should be taking away a passing lane instead of a travel lane...

What do they do in Europe?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ They do both in Europe. However, it makes more sense at the right, because you expect at a narrowing that traffic volumes drop substantial at or before that exit to justify this narrowing.


----------



## Verso

There's no general rule. If the number of lanes reduces at an exit, they often make it the same here, but if not, then mostly the overtaking lane is taken away.


----------



## HAWC1506

Chriszwolle said:


> ^^ They do both in Europe. However, it makes more sense at the right, because you expect at a narrowing that traffic volumes drop substantial at or before that exit to justify this narrowing.


Yeah you're right, and the particular intersection I questioned them on was actually a ramp from State Route, so that particular ramp receives and brings in a lot of traffic. One more thing to add though is that while a lane is being taken away, the carpool lane ends to become a general purpose lane on the left. But the U.S. has so many exit only lanes it bugs me. Not only are they on the right side, they're on the left too, and that's even worse.

It's starting to be corrected though, on sections of I-5 they are starting to replace left exits with flyover ramps. The parts that have exits on the left are usually more than 40 years old. Then, they are also constructing direct access carpool ramps on the left, which I think is great though.


----------



## HAWC1506

Check out this project:

Major I-405 closures in South Bellevue begin Friday, August 8

Date: Friday, August 01, 2008

Contact: Steve Peer, WSDOT Communications, (425) 301-2023 (Bellevue)
Stacy Trussler, I-405 Deputy Project Director, (425) 401-4126 (Bellevue)

Plan ahead to avoid congestion on all major Seattle and Bellevue highways and arterials

BELLEVUE – Major I-405 closures in South Bellevue are on track to begin Friday, Aug. 8. WSDOT traffic engineers predict major traffic congestion.

During the weekend of August 8 through 11 crews will:

* close all southbound lanes of I-405 between SE 8th Street and I-90 Friday, Aug. 8 at 11 p.m. The lanes will reopen Monday, Aug. 11 at 5 a.m. 
* close multiple ramps leading to I-405 in south Bellevue.
* close the ramp from eastbound SR 520 to southbound I-405. 

During the 54-hour closure, crews will dump sand to protect the roadway and begin demolishing the Wilburton Tunnel just north of I-90 in South Bellevue. Removing the tunnel will allow contractor crews to begin widening this section of I-405 to 6 lanes. This is part of a $124 million dollar project to eliminate one of the biggest traffic chokepoints in the state.

“To avoid major back-ups throughout the region, we recommend people travel close to home,” said Stacy Trussler, I-405 Deputy Project Director. Trussler added that, “No changes in driving behavior could lead to 13-mile backups on southbound I-405.” Northbound I-405 should not be affected.

During the closure, drivers should:

* avoid the closure area
* use alternate routes in to and out of Bellevue
* check the WSDOT traffic cameras before they use I-5, I-405, SR 520 and SR 522 this weekend at www.wsdot.wa.gov/traffic/seattle/
* vanpool, carpool or take the bus 

WSDOT is fully prepared for the closure. We have:

* suspended all construction on parallel or alternate routes
* coordinated extensively with the city of Bellevue to manage increased traffic on city streets into and out of the downtown retail core
* changed the express lanes schedule on both I-5 and I-90. The I-5 express lanes will run southbound throughout the weekend and the I-90 express lanes will run eastbound to carry traffic back over to the eastside. 

Contractors estimate it will take three long weekends to bring the tunnel down.

The closures will also take place 

* 11 p.m., Friday, Aug. 15 to 5 a.m., Monday, Aug. 18 
* 11 p.m., Friday, Aug. 22 to 5 a.m., Monday, Aug. 25 

During construction weekends, drivers will see increased traffic on all regional freeways between 10 a.m. and 7 p.m. In addition to I-405, I-90, SR 520, the I-405 closures will likely affect I-5 and SR 99 southbound traffic, which is typically already heavy on weekends.

“We recommend that people take a ‘staycation’,” Trussler said. “If you need to travel, do it early or late in the day, and leave plenty of time.” Trussler added that Bellevue is open for business during construction. Drivers heading to Bellevue should avoid the freeways and take local arterials.

Many say they don’t even know where the Wilburton Tunnel is located. When headed southbound on I-405, drivers go under the tunnel as they approach the I-90/I-405 interchange. The tunnel spans 360 feet from entrance to exit. Once the highway is widened, WSDOT expects smoother and safer traffic flow for drivers approaching the I-90/I-405 interchange.

WSDOT has developed a Web resource to help drivers plan their trips and avoid backups during closures. The transportation department encourages drivers to visit: www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/i405/112thAvetoSE8th/wilburton.htm. On the Web page, drivers will find links to up-to-the-minute traffic conditions, recommended detours and transportation tips.

I-405 is renowned in Washington for having the most congested freeway section in the state between Tukwila and Bellevue. With downtown Bellevue employment expected to grow by about 40 percent, from 33,000 to 48,000, between 2006 and 2010, improvements such as the South Bellevue Widening Project are critical to relieve I 405 congestion now and into the future.

WSDOT worked with cities and counties in the region to craft a long-term I-405 master plan to address traffic congestion along the corridor. The Wilburton Tunnel removal is part of the I-405 South Bellevue Widening Project, which is a component of the master plan. Also known as the I 405/112th Ave SE to SE 8th St Widening Project, the project is one of three I-405 "Nickel Projects" funded in part by the 2003 nickel funds as well as the 2005 Transportation Partnership Account. 

Tunnel Demolition brochure:
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/BF70D8A3-0306-432D-9CDB-EB0F0E516366/0/405_tip_rackcard_071008.pdf

I-405 and I-90 Interchange Now:










After the widening project:










The Master Plan (unfunded)


----------



## hkskyline

*US extends Mexico truck program despite objections *

WASHINGTON, Aug 4 (Reuters) - The Bush administration on Monday extended a test program allowing long-haul trucks from Mexico full access to U.S. highways for up to two years, despite pending legislation in Congress to shut it down.

"We intend this extension to reassure trucking companies that they will have sufficient time to realize a return on their investment, and we anticipate additional participation with this extra time," said John Hill, the Transportation Department's top trucking safety regulator.

Participation has been limited, regulators said, because of political wrangling about the program's future.

Organized labor, highway safety and consumer groups have fiercely opposed the initiative, which was permitted under NAFTA -- the North American Free Trade Agreement.

Trucks from Mexico have historically been confined to U.S. border areas where they offload goods to be trucked by American companies.

Last year, regulators approved a one-year pilot program to allow a limited number of Mexican trucks full access to U.S. roads over congressional objections. American trucks were also allowed to operate in Mexico.

Ten U.S. carriers with 55 trucks and 27 Mexican carriers with 107 trucks have participated in the program as of July without incident, U.S. and Mexican officials said.

They also said vehicles participating in the program meet safety requirements. But officials from U.S.-based unions say disputed safety issues remain unresolved.

Last week, the House of Representatives Transportation Committee voted to end the pilot as scheduled next month. The bill also requires congressional authority to restart the initiative.

The panel's chairman, Rep. James Oberstar, was furious at the move by transportation regulators, which occurred as Congress began a month-long recess.

"I intend to move our bill as quickly as possible and make certain that the voice of Congress is heard loud and clear at the Department of Transportation and that this program is finally shut down," the Minnesota Democrat said in a statement.


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## mike7743

this is unacceptable, they should keep their third world trucks across the border.


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## HAWC1506

wow this thread just...died...did I offend anyone? hno:


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## ManRegio

mike7743 said:


> this is unacceptable, they should keep their third world trucks across the border.


Third World trucks. :lol::lol::lol:
This is a protectionism issue more than anything else. 
US and Mexico has the same trucks, cars, etc. If you were more informed, you would know that almost the majority of trucks and cars that exist in the US were assembled in Mexico, and for your surprise Mexican trucks and Cars looks the same as US trucks and cars. 
Come on Mexico is not Cuba :lol::lol:


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## AUchamps

ManRegio said:


> Third World trucks. :lol::lol::lol:
> This is a protectionism issue more than anything else.
> US and Mexico has the same trucks, cars, etc. If you were more informed, you would know that almost the majority of trucks and cars that exist in the US were assembled in Mexico, and for your surprise Mexican trucks and Cars looks the same as US trucks and cars.
> Come on Mexico is not Cuba :lol::lol:


It's the emissions issue and driving standards too. You look at the environmental record of the cars allowed to drive in Mexico's 30 states vs. our 50 states(and Canada's 10 provinces) and you'll see why we're able to find such easy ways to hide behind our protectionism. And ironically, it's the American Unions that are hating because apparently according to them, the Mexican Unions haven't tried to rise up and demand the same quality pay and training that American Unions have for their employees.


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## ChrisZwolle

I think the current legislation is very outdated. C'mon, let the Mexicans also profit from the American economy. Protectionism is outdated in this time and age of global (free) trade. 

When i was in Germany, I saw many Russian trucks, most of them were more modern than the average German truck. It's just a matter of time.


----------



## AUchamps

Chriszwolle said:


> I think the current legislation is very outdated. C'mon, let the Mexicans also profit from the American economy. Protectionism is outdated in this time and age of global (free) trade.
> 
> When i was in Germany, I saw many Russian trucks, most of them were more modern than the average German truck. It's just a matter of time.


Ah, so the Unions of the Central European nations are being protectionist because they feel that the Unions of the Eastern European nations are weaker and therefore will not fight to pay their truckers as much as the going rate in Germany/NL/etc?


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## pwalker

^^ Nope. I'll try and keep it alive.

I was not aware of that I-90/I-405 redo on Seattle's eastside. You say it isn't funded and that is even tougher now with lower gas tax revenue coming in. But it looks like a good project. I also heard plans for a similar highrise interchange at I-405 and SR167 in Renton. That's probably on hold too.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The US has lived with too low fuel taxes for too long a time, and now, when all the mass constructed infrastructure from the 50's and 60's has to be replaced, there's no money. Mark my words, it's getting worse.


----------



## pwalker

Chriszwolle said:


> The US has lived with too low fuel taxes for too long a time, and now, when all the mass constructed infrastructure from the 50's and 60's has to be replaced, there's no money. Mark my words, it's getting worse.


I agree. And nobody is going to vote for higher gas taxes with the price we are paying at the pump. The US may have to go more toward toll roads, but even that is unpopular.


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## ChrisZwolle

The American public need to realize their gas is still cheap-ass compared to other developed nations. In Europe, we still pay over twice your fuel price. But everybody is constantly speaking of high fuel prices, I saw it numerous times on CNN and the LA Times, it's almost like creating an hype.


----------



## pwalker

Chriszwolle said:


> The American public need to realize their gas is still cheap-ass compared to other developed nations. In Europe, we still pay over twice your fuel price. But everybody is constantly speaking of high fuel prices, I saw it numerous times on CNN and the LA Times, it's almost like creating an hype.


I think the American public understands this. But you have to factor in the lifestyle that has been built on low gas prices. Because of that, Americans bought big gas guzzlers, and created distant suburbs. I'm not saying it is right or wrong, it's just the reality. Plus isn't it true that European gas taxes are somewhat responsible for the high price there?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Yes ofcourse, European taxes are mostly there to fund non-road projects. And they keep to increase. I think the right tax value is somewhere between the US and European prices.

However, I believe the US public can better adjust to higher gas prices, like the European public did with buying fuel-efficient cars (which certainly do not need to be very small). European and Asian car-manufacturers make fuel efficient cars for a long time, while because the fuel was very cheap in the US, the American muscle car never found the need to do this. An average European car consumes almost half of the American car. 

I never understood the need of placing a 5 liter engine in an estate or sedan. 1.8 or 2.0 will do the job just fine.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

Chriszwolle said:


> The American public need to realize their gas is still cheap-ass compared to other developed nations. In Europe, we still pay over twice your fuel price. But everybody is constantly speaking of high fuel prices, I saw it numerous times on CNN and the LA Times, it's almost like creating an hype.


A big difference between Europe and the US is that as a result of low fuel taxes US cities have been developed entirely based on the assumption of cheap fuel. Higher fuel prices will severely impact the economies of households that are totally car dependant. Unlike Europe where high fuel taxes and strict urban boundaries have kept urban areas compact and car dependance lower. The typical European household only has 1 car for instance and much shopping is done either on foot or bicycle. Low income households often don't have a car as do many central city housholds(about 20% of Dutch households don't have a car and only about 15% of housholds have more than 1). Americans are more vulnerable to higher fuel bills than probably any other country. I think the US lower and middle class are really going to start to hurt.


----------



## geogregor

There is all the talk about ending dependency on foreign oil.
The best what Americans can do to help them self and country is to switch to more economic vehicles.
Whats wrong with Ford Focus? Or Opel Astra?
Do you really need Ford F-500 to get from home to office?
Even American car makers know how to do great economic cars. Just in Europe.
Ford Europe and Opel (General Motors) are good examples.
Also a lot of delivery trucks in US have far worse efficiency than Ford Transit (probably the most popular van in Europe).
I think Ford is just starting introducing European models (Focus, Fiesta and Transit) in US


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## Xusein

Ford is retooling their plants to produce less trucks and more of the cars that they sell in Europe. A little too late if you ask me, but even with the poor auto sales in general, the small ones are by far the best ones and there are literally waiting lists for some models. So, it's a no-brainer. The SUV isn't popular anymore in the US. 

Can't say that I'm very interested in the Fiesta though. If I was to get that kind of car, I'd get a Honda Fit.  

The best that the US (and the states) can do is gradually raise the fuel taxes to help finance the revitalization of our aging infrastructure (or we could just get out of Iraq. ), and at the same time, officially make getting more fuel-efficient cars in vogue. The days of cheap gas and Hummers are over and good riddance. The US economy needs to become more efficient and not rely on cheap gas (imported or domestic) as much.


----------



## G5man

I prefer the get the heck out of Iraq and stay out and put a ton of dough to building mass rapid transit infrastructure. I think gasoline powered vehicles will become a thing of the past in a manner of years and we need to be ready for it.


----------



## Virginia Lover

Well, we are getting the Fiesta in 2010, and we already have the Honda Fit. I currently reside in Virginia, a former crown colony, where we have some of the worst traffic in the nation. I love the American Automobile industry, but there needs to be a change in the Americans live. Americans were used to cheap fuel in the 1990's, which increased suburban sprawl and convinced people that buying large Sport Utility Vehicles and owning a large house in a distant suburb of a city was the way to go. That was considered the "American way." There has been a subtle change in the marketing of automobiles. Ford is bringing six of its European models to the United States soon. But Americans need to hange their philosophy. I admire London for its subway system. I believe it's the largest in the world. It causes transit-oriented development. But America needs more diesel cars. With diesel becoming cleaner and more efficient that petrol, it's time we start introducing more diesel-burning automobiles to the American market. Commuter cars only need to be 1.0 to 2.0 litres. Offshore Oil Drilling, in combination with alternative fuels fuel-efficient cars, will reduce our dependency on foreign oil. That's why Obama needs to become president. America also needs more nuclear, solar, and wind power. But America is leading the way in household alternative power. We are just behind Germany in the Amount of solar power we generate. We are building more wind turbines. I also agree that we should raise our taxes by a small amount. Otherwise, we would be socialist (like Europe), and not have a powerful, free-market economy. Raising taxes would support health care, infrastructure, military, and other needs. We already are the world's strongest country with the strongest military, and I believe if we raise taxes, our military might will be even greater.


----------



## HAWC1506

Ahaha it's a live!!! Well you have to understand though, the _main_ reason that the Big Three is losing so much money right now is because they don't have fuel-efficient alternatives readily available. The Fiesta isn't going to reach our shores until next year, the Opel Astra (Saturn Astra in the U.S.) is practically sold out.

But then if you look at the VW Golf, (Rabbit here), is only available with a 2.5L petrol engine. There are no smaller engine choices available, so fuel efficiency can only be moderate. Also, diesel cars aren't popular in the U.S....yet. I really wish the U.S. would start taxing and maintain fuel prices at around 6 dollars to a gallon. That would change a lot of habits. Maybe 7 dollars petrol, 6 diesel.


----------



## Virginia Lover

HAWC1506 said:


> Ahaha it's a live!!! Well you have to understand though, the _main_ reason that the Big Three is losing so much money right now is because they don't have fuel-efficient alternatives readily available. The Fiesta isn't going to reach our shores until next year, the Opel Astra (Saturn Astra in the U.S.) is practically sold out.
> 
> But then if you look at the VW Golf, (Rabbit here), is only available with a 2.5L petrol engine. There are no smaller engine choices available, so fuel efficiency can only be moderate. Also, diesel cars aren't popular in the U.S....yet. I really wish the U.S. would start taxing and maintain fuel prices at around 6 dollars to a gallon. That would change a lot of habits. Maybe 7 dollars petrol, 6 diesel.


I beat you to it... :banana:


----------



## Xusein

HAWC1506 said:


> But then if you look at the VW Golf, (Rabbit here), is only available with a 2.5L petrol engine. There are no smaller engine choices available, so fuel efficiency can only be moderate. Also, diesel cars aren't popular in the U.S....yet. I really wish the U.S. would start taxing and maintain fuel prices at around 6 dollars to a gallon. That would change a lot of habits. Maybe 7 dollars petrol, 6 diesel.


A few companies are bringing diesel models here. I think that Volkswagen and maybe some others (can't remember). Using diesel as a fuel-efficient way is somewhat hard since diesel is hovering $5 here. However, I wouldn't mind paying a bit more for it, since diesel cars have the same efficiency as hybrids. The public is oblivious to that.

As for $7 gas, that will be a tough sell. Best case scenario, the US and state governments gradually raise the tax and sell the reasons to the public *WHY *they are doing this. I think if examples like the Minneapolis bridge disaster are brought up and more education about the slow death of our infrastructure, Americans will have to eventually have to deal with the tough medicine. We really have no other alternative. 

Forget making the US more fuel-efficient for a second...we need to increase more money for our highways, bridges and roads or we will be seeing more Minneapolis bridge disasters...I heard a large % of bridges nationwide aren't good. We need to fix them with more revenue.


----------



## Virginia Lover

10ROT said:


> A few companies are bringing diesel models here. I think that Volkswagen and maybe some others (can't remember). Using diesel as a fuel-efficient way is somewhat hard since diesel is hovering $5 here. However, I wouldn't mind paying a bit more for it, since diesel cars have the same efficiency as hybrids. The public is oblivious to that.
> 
> As for $7 gas, that will be a tough sell. Best case scenario, the US and state governments gradually raise the tax and sell the reasons to the public *WHY *they are doing this. I think if examples like the Minneapolis bridge disaster are brought up and more education about the slow death of our infrastructure, Americans will have to eventually have to deal with the tough medicine. We really have no other alternative.
> 
> Forget making the US more fuel-efficient for a second...we need to increase more money for our highways, bridges and roads or we will be seeing more Minneapolis bridge disasters...I heard a large % of bridges nationwide aren't good. We need to fix them with more revenue.


There are already diesel models in the U.S. Mercedes has the E-320 Bluetec, a very clean and fuel-efficient diesel, Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD, Mercedes-Benz GL320 CDI, Mercedes-Benz ML320 CDI, 2008 Mercedes-Benz R320 CDI, Volkswagen Jetta TDI Clean Diesel, and the 2008 Volkswagen Touareg 2 V10 TDI Twinturbo.


----------



## Xusein

Oh really...that's something that I didn't know. I need to read up on that, sorry. :lol:

I wish that there was more education about diesel though. People think it's only for trucks.


----------



## Virginia Lover

Right... diesel is superior to petrol in two ways. It produces more torque, thereby increasing a truck's towing capacity and diesel can actually burn more efficient than petrol.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

My Diesel car gets 45 miles per gallon


----------



## Xusein

^^ Seriously...if Americans knew about the efficiency of diesel, it could actually be worth the higher cost. At least it's more useful spending extra on that instead of say, premium gas. 

We should be looking this in the face. :gaah:

BTW: my car gets 30 on the highway. Don't know how much in the city.


----------



## HAWC1506

Virginia Lover said:


> I beat you to it... :banana:


Aw man you are so on next time :cheers:

haha there's a Volkswagen Lupos diesel that does 80-something miles to a gallon (imperial I believe), so that drops it down to 60-70 U.S. gallons. Then there's the problem of it being small. The Ford Ka and VW Lupos do not have the ability to withstand an impact from a full-sized SUV like the Tahoe. The Smart barely got away. As for diesel, the EPA estimates are a disadvantage to diesel because the way they test it put diesel fuel economy ratings as much as 18 to 25% less than its actual real-world economy.

As for highways, it would be nice to see a 4-laned highway, the right lane for trucks and trailors capped at 55 miles an hour, the next lane for slower traffic and non-performance-oriented SUVs and minivans (like the Tahoe, Yukon, Sequoia, 4-runner, Pilot, Sienna, Odyssey etc.) capped at 65 mph.

Then the next lane for passing/general traffic capped at 80, and the last for passing that allows you to go 10 over the speed limit for passing.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's the Lupo 3 L (3 liters per 100km), which gets 70 miles per gallon. However, those are cookie cans without any options. You'll get a much larger diesel car that gets 45 miles per gallon, which is a nice fuel economy. Better than those US 15 - 25 mpg cars. 

What is the current speed limit for trucks? In Europe, it's usually 50 - 55 mph. Higher is unsafe in my opinion, they are vulnerable to bad pavement, winds and other traffic makes the possibility to jackknife or turn-over much bigger. 

I believe a 70 - 80 mph speed limit is just fine for rural highways. 60/65 feels like crowling. SUV sales should be disencouraged by higher taxes, possibly based on pollution (this is measurable). A chevy Tahoe pollutes nearly 400 grammes CO2 per kilometer, which is just nuts.


----------



## Substructure

HAWC1506, the stock Peugeot 308 does 75MPG-US / 90MPG-UK. And it's not that small.

Some pictures of the beast :
http://www.netcarshow.com/peugeot/2008-308/

http://img2.netcarshow.com/Peugeot-308_2008_800x600_wallpaper_0c.jpg

http://img2.netcarshow.com/Peugeot-308_2008_800x600_wallpaper_22.jpg


edit : There's also a coupé, with the same fuel economy : http://www.netcarshow.com/peugeot/2009-308_cc/
I wonder how good this would sell in the US...


----------



## HAWC1506

Chriszwolle said:


> That's the Lupo 3 L (3 liters per 100km), which gets 70 miles per gallon. However, those are cookie cans without any options. You'll get a much larger diesel car that gets 45 miles per gallon, which is a nice fuel economy. Better than those US 15 - 25 mpg cars.
> 
> What is the current speed limit for trucks? In Europe, it's usually 50 - 55 mph. Higher is unsafe in my opinion, they are vulnerable to bad pavement, winds and other traffic makes the possibility to jackknife or turn-over much bigger.
> 
> I believe a 70 - 80 mph speed limit is just fine for rural highways. 60/65 feels like crowling. SUV sales should be disencouraged by higher taxes, possibly based on pollution (this is measurable). A chevy Tahoe pollutes nearly 400 grammes CO2 per kilometer, which is just nuts.


Yeah that is nuts, but there are worse.

Chevy Tahoe petrol: 14 city/20 highway
Toyota Sequoia petrol: 14 city/17 highway
Audi Q7 petrol: 14 city/19 highway

As far as I know, speed limits for trucks are generally 10 miles under the posted speed. Sometimes on rural sections, you can see "Speed Limit 70" and below that "Truck Speed Limit 60." On rural stretches of U.S. highways though, there can be miles without any traffic. With two lanes and a very straight road, I don't think I will have a problem with trucks doing 65. Cars generally do 75 on those stretches and even that feels like crawling.

The argument though is that there are a lot of working-class people who need SUVs, but I don't see how difficult it is to implement an ordnance where people can be relieved of gas-guzzler taxes if they meet working-class requirements.

Then you have performance oriented SUVs like the Audi Q7 or Mercedes M-class. Those get worse mileage than Tahoes. However, I've heard that in Europe, those SUVs are generally sold as diesels. (Is that true?). If so, those get mileages in the mid to high 20s compared to the 15 miles to a gallon in a petrol engine.

It's going to take a long time to change American habits. Why don't we go back to being a British colony :lol:



Substructure said:


> HAWC1506, the stock Peugeot 308 does 75MPG-US / 90MPG-UK. And it's not that small.


I am so disappointed Peugeot isn't sold in the U.S....Americans need to get off the hybrid train. Hybrids may work for Japan where limits are sometimes as low as 80 km/h, but certainly not in the U.S., let alone Europe. It's great to know that the 308 exists! I'll try to do some research and post an article on my blog.


----------



## Virginia Lover

Chriszwolle said:


> That's the Lupo 3 L (3 liters per 100km), which gets 70 miles per gallon. However, those are cookie cans without any options. You'll get a much larger diesel car that gets 45 miles per gallon, which is a nice fuel economy. Better than those US 15 - 25 mpg cars.
> 
> What is the current speed limit for trucks? In Europe, it's usually 50 - 55 mph. Higher is unsafe in my opinion, they are vulnerable to bad pavement, winds and other traffic makes the possibility to jackknife or turn-over much bigger.
> 
> I believe a 70 - 80 mph speed limit is just fine for rural highways. 60/65 feels like crowling. SUV sales should be disencouraged by higher taxes, possibly based on pollution (this is measurable). A chevy Tahoe pollutes nearly 400 grammes CO2 per kilometer, which is just nuts.


For not being an American, you have great insight into our highway system. For Rural Interstate highways, the speed limit is mostly 65, with the exception of some states and spans. Our speed limit does need to be raised. In Urban areas, the speed limit for interstates is 55... very slow. To answer your first question, there is no speed limit for trucks in America... they flow along with commuters and interstate travelers going about their daily business. However, some roads say "thru trucks prohibited," meaning trucks cannot use that road. Or it tells trucks to keep right. But I usually travel at around 70-75 on the interstate... I would like to go 80-85, but laws do not allow for this. I think it would be a splendid idea for the US to tax based on emissions... and give tax rebates to those who drive more fuel-efficient cars (it is already doing this to a lesser degree). Gas taxes should also increase. The Tahoe, Yukon, Excursion, and Suburban indeed do not get very good mileage... and minivans are a much more efficient alternative to large SUV's... but the American image of a middle-age man driving a minivan is not so good.


----------



## HAWC1506

Virginia Lover said:


> For not being an American, you have great insight into our highway system. For Rural Interstate highways, the speed limit is mostly 65, with the exception of some states and spans. Our speed limit does need to be raised. In Urban areas, the speed limit for interstates is 55... very slow. To answer your first question, there is no speed limit for trucks in America... they flow along with commuters and interstate travelers going about their daily business. However, some roads say "thru trucks prohibited," meaning trucks cannot use that road. Or it tells trucks to keep right. But I usually travel at around 70-75 on the interstate... I would like to go 80-85, but laws do not allow for this. I think it would be a splendid idea for the US to tax based on emissions... and give tax rebates to those who drive more fuel-efficient cars (it is already doing this to a lesser degree). Gas taxes should also increase. The Tahoe, Yukon, Excursion, and Suburban indeed do not get very good mileage... and minivans are a much more efficient alternative to large SUV's... but the American image of a middle-age man driving a minivan is not so good.


It might be that way in virginia, but every state has different laws I guess.


----------



## en1044

Virginia Lover said:


> For not being an American, you have great insight into our highway system. For Rural Interstate highways, the speed limit is mostly 65, with the exception of some states and spans. Our speed limit does need to be raised. In Urban areas, the speed limit for interstates is 55... very slow. To answer your first question, there is no speed limit for trucks in America... they flow along with commuters and interstate travelers going about their daily business. However, some roads say "thru trucks prohibited," meaning trucks cannot use that road. Or it tells trucks to keep right. But I usually travel at around 70-75 on the interstate... I would like to go 80-85, but laws do not allow for this. I think it would be a splendid idea for the US to tax based on emissions... and give tax rebates to those who drive more fuel-efficient cars (it is already doing this to a lesser degree). Gas taxes should also increase. The Tahoe, Yukon, Excursion, and Suburban indeed do not get very good mileage... and minivans are a much more efficient alternative to large SUV's... but the American image of a middle-age man driving a minivan is not so good.


To be honest, i dont think the speed limit really needs to be changed up from 55 in an urban area. When you think about it, how often do you even get to go way over 55 on I66- maybe more likely on the beltway. As bad as Virginias traffic seems to be whats the point of going so fast? Its 55 for a reason, a lot of it is a safety issue. If it was I81 then thats obviously a different story as theres less traffic. I dunno just my 2 cents.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

55 is okay in Urban area's I guess, but I've seen many video's in the US of driving through cities where you don't see a single home from the freeway. However, 55 is a bit slow, in Europe, most urban area's have a speed limit of 60 mph. Only if the road is very curvy or if there are many exits the speed limit should be slower. 

But it also has to do with noise pollutions, the lower the speed limit, the lower the emissions of noise. This is especially an issue where there's still that old concrete, or the freeway is surrounded by concrete walls (=reflections of noise).


----------



## NorthWesternGuy

Americans are afraid of competition


----------



## Jeroen669

Chriszwolle said:


> In Europe, it's usually 50 - 55 mph.


In the UK it's 60mph, and to be honest there is -safetywise- nothing wrong with that on usual motorways. I got over 60 mph in holland too (at steep tunnel slopes).

I wonder if american trucks are even confined. Eg, in the Netherlands they have to be confined to somewhere between 80 - 90 km/h (depending on weight).


----------



## HAWC1506

Chriszwolle said:


> 55 is okay in Urban area's I guess, but I've seen many video's in the US of driving through cities where you don't see a single home from the freeway. However, 55 is a bit slow, in Europe, most urban area's have a speed limit of 60 mph. Only if the road is very curvy or if there are many exits the speed limit should be slower.
> 
> But it also has to do with noise pollutions, the lower the speed limit, the lower the emissions of noise. This is especially an issue where there's still that old concrete, or the freeway is surrounded by concrete walls (=reflections of noise).


That is right on the spot(!) for most cities. In the city I see though (Seattle), the speed limit is 60 on I-5, and that highway receives a lot of traffic AND has exits on both the left and right. The highway also runs under a convention center (yes below a building, not a tunnel, but like a hole through the building, which is odd). The concrete surface is about 40 years old and rutted so the noise pollution is oh so great  That entire stretch of I-5 is going to be reconstructed in a few years. :banana:


----------



## G5man

Hopefully soon, that area is a huge chokepoint when the express lanes are turned around. Say HAWC, do you think it would be effective for the express lanes to become express toll lanes and perhaps add a lane from north to south on the mainline?


----------



## urbanlover

Some states do have speed limits in Michigan trucks are limited to 60 compared to 70 for cars. But it's not strictly enforced, pretty much like most of the speed laws in this state.


----------



## HAWC1506

G5man said:


> Hopefully soon, that area is a huge chokepoint when the express lanes are turned around. Say HAWC, do you think it would be effective for the express lanes to become express toll lanes and perhaps add a lane from north to south on the mainline?


That corridor is near impossible to expand. The terrain requires that a lot of the highway be built on bridges, and at the part where the freeway runs under the convention center, that's a definite nono for expansion. I believe lanes are already narrow enough at 12-feet wide and I don't think there's a shoulder under there either. 

What I believe would be much better is that if they convert the right shoulder (when there is one) so that it can be used for transit and maybe even carpool during rush hours. I think WSDOT is thinking about doing that with new technology called Active Traffic Management (which is nothing new to the Europeans and hasn't been for the past decade or so). That technology though, is still at least five years away.

As for the reversible lanes, I'm not a traffic engineer so I don't know anything about traffic patterns, but from my experience, a big cause of congestion is when people come onto the freeway and have to merge 4 lanes of traffic to get into the HOV. If you convert the reversible lanes into express toll lanes, there's going to be even more people cutting across traffic to get in there. The problem with that corridor is that there's no room. There's very little space to add lanes and very little space to add direct acces HOV ramps. If there were direct access HOV ramps like on I-405 or I-90, I'd say that would probably be a great idea, but not in I-5.

Just my thoughts, but I'm not a professional, so don't quote me on anything haha Do you travel around there much?

The three highways I think that have the most "upgrade potentials" are I-90, I-405, and SR520. I am especially fond of SR520 because being a state route, it doesn't have to deal with federal interstate restrictions so that highway can be built more European-like, as in more compact without the need for humongous medians and shoulders. My wish is for WSDOT to introduce a new generation of highway by rebuilding SR520 to European standards and labeling it A1. I don't think that will happen anytime soon though...


----------



## HAWC1506

Okay i've got 347 highway pictures I took on a trip to central Washington. Anyone want to see?

If yes, should I upload them all on here?

If no, should I upload them all on here?

My camera ran out of batteries (and memory...I should get more than 128 mb...) halfway down I-90 so the majority of the pictures were taken from my cellphone.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

10ROT said:


> A few companies are bringing diesel models here. I think that Volkswagen and maybe some others (can't remember). Using diesel as a fuel-efficient way is somewhat hard since diesel is hovering $5 here. However, I wouldn't mind paying a bit more for it, since diesel cars have the same efficiency as hybrids. The public is oblivious to that.
> 
> As for $7 gas, that will be a tough sell. Best case scenario, the US and state governments gradually raise the tax and sell the reasons to the public *WHY *they are doing this. I think if examples like the Minneapolis bridge disaster are brought up and more education about the slow death of our infrastructure, Americans will have to eventually have to deal with the tough medicine. We really have no other alternative.
> 
> Forget making the US more fuel-efficient for a second...we need to increase more money for our highways, bridges and roads or we will be seeing more Minneapolis bridge disasters...I heard a large % of bridges nationwide aren't good. We need to fix them with more revenue.


$7/gallon gas would kill the economy, if things are bad enough at $4 its a loss $3 higher. Fact is in the US its spread out in most places, I need a car for everything basically, my suburb is somewhat dense too. For one I love how you bring up infrastructure, because one thing that really kills fuel economy is stop and go traffic from poorly timed lights. My car gets 17-19mpg in those conditions, but if I'm constantly moving it can get up to 32mpg at 47mph on flat surface. Either way my average mpg is lower because of poorly timed lights and poor planning, traffic, etc. We need more efficient infrastructure, fact is you get very bad mpg idling at traffic lights. 

Whats sad is our mpg hasn't improved really since WWII, I can find a 1980's Honda Shitter(Civic) that gets better mpg's than the current model. Car companies need to step up and stop being cheap, that would improve mpg's big time, for example if my transmission was a 5 or 6 speed my mpg's would be atleast 2+mpg better. Another thing is that for the longest time car companies didn't make nice fuel efficient cars, they were crap for the most part or cheapo.


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## HAWC1506

I-275westcoastfl said:


> $7/gallon gas would kill the economy, if things are bad enough at $4 its a loss $3 higher.


Well high gas prices also came at a bad time. We've got the mortgage problem and credit crunch at the same time. People adapted to gas prices when it went up from $1.40 to $3.00. It just can't happen all at once. 

Although, I do think I'll be able to take "credit crunch" much more seriously if it didn't sound like a breakfast cereal...


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## HAWC1506

Okay, here are some previews:

I-90


















I-90 and I-405 intechange









I-405


















This is what carpool lanes are for:









Carpool lanes aren't supposed to clog up though...


















I-405 PCC pavement damaged by studded tire use.









I-405 Project



























Seattle-Tacoma International Airport






















































I-90


















Direct access HOV ramp decorated with salmon.









I-90








































































The nicest stretch of I-90 I've been on.




































Offramp









Going into the rural sections of I-90









My favorite sign in the U.S.



























I-90 guardrail









Traveling I-90 Eastbound looking at the Westbound bridge









I-90 signs









I-90 Variable Speed Limit









I-90 Cracks













































I-90 Past the Cascade Mountain Range





































I-90 and I-82 Interchange



















I-82



























































































Very nice I-82 Pavement

















































































All mighty god has shed a load of poo on our desert.































































Coming back on I-90 again

More cracks













































Here is the mother of all cracks. Same one for the next couple pictures.



























Snow shelter









Variable Speed Limit again









And another one a couple hundred feet down









And yet another one a few more feet down









Here's continuing on westbound.









And back into more populated areas. Again, here's my favorite stretch of I-90. Police on the right.









Yes that sign on the left of the roadway says "Keep Right Except to Pass"













































And just for fun, gas prices are going down...which is not a very good thing.









There ya go. I've selected a few for ya. Notice that people keep right except to pass in the rural areas? :] Makes me want to live on a farm in Eastern Washington. I actually saw a humongous sign probably 6 feet tall by 8 feet wide that said in capital letters "STATE LAW KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS." Looks something like this:










Sorry about the quality on most of them. My camera ran out of battery and memory, so I had to use my cell phone. Then there was bad weather for a lot of the time. But hey, at least I timed it so the windshield wiper wouldn't get in the way


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## ChrisZwolle

> Carpool lanes aren't supposed to clog up though...


Well, what I've seen from the Californian Sigalert site on the speed displays is that HOV-lanes are regularly even slower than the regular lanes.


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## I-275westcoastfl

HAWC1506 said:


> Well high gas prices also came at a bad time. We've got the mortgage problem and credit crunch at the same time. People adapted to gas prices when it went up from $1.40 to $3.00. It just can't happen all at once.
> 
> Although, I do think I'll be able to take "credit crunch" much more seriously if it didn't sound like a breakfast cereal...


The thing is people didn't adapt because gas never stayed at $3.00 very long back then. I think $2-$2.50/gallon is a fair gas price, we unfortunately won't see that again. Gas prices will fall again until next summer when it will pass $5/gallon. The oil companies are loving it, even better is when idiot americans will favor offshore drilling in which we will see little to no decrease in gas prices, but oil companies will have easier ways to obtain oil!


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## ChrisZwolle

We even had higher gas prices than that 15 years ago:


----------



## Substructure

I-275westcoastfl said:


> The thing is people didn't adapt because gas never stayed at $3.00 very long back then. I think $2-$2.50/gallon is a fair gas price, we unfortunately won't see that again. Gas prices will fall again until next summer when it will pass $5/gallon. The oil companies are loving it, even better is when idiot americans will favor offshore drilling in which we will see little to no decrease in gas prices, but oil companies will have easier ways to obtain oil!


People could have adapted, but pressure from oil companies and car manufacturers has been tremendous. There is a lot of money to be made selling unefficient vehicles and technology.
Still, at least you guys had some good will with the EV1. A car that would have worked with some clean, affordable energy, 10 years ago
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=bsdUfAEIEos
Had this been pushed a little more (better batteries, range extender, public charging stations..) imagine where the technology would be now.

In the US, I've noticed that cars can be incredibly unefficient, with some cars hardly doing better than 15MPG. Even now, this could bring tears to my eyes : http://gm-volt.com/2008/08/09/2009-cadillac-escalade-hybrid-goes-on-sale-for-71685/

"This vehicle will get a remarkable 20 mpg hwy/21 mpg city using the 2-mode hybrid drivetrain."

In Europe, we pushed diesel cars instead, but I would rather favor electric technologies.


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## swaugh3

Only the western half of the 14th Street bridge has been completely removed, and it's been like that for a few weeks now. Why can't they just remove the entire span at once?


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## ChrisZwolle

I think Houston has the most inefficient land usage of any large city within the United States. They create unnecessary large commuting distances, leaving the central city with extreme traffic volumes, thus huge roads. I think Houstons freeways are also the ugliest in the United States with those huge parking lots, commercial zones and frontage roads alongside them, all in concrete. 

The extreme parts of the urban area are 50 miles apart. That's extremely large for a city with a population of 5.6 million inhabitants. The traffic volumes are among the highest in the US, comparable with Los Angeles, while that metropolitan area is 3 times larger than Houston. 

If you look at the area between I-45, I-610, US 90 and the SH-8, there are huge undeveloped areas around it, with suburbs even further away. Why not construct those suburbs closer to the city? Saves you easily a 100.000 people who have to commute 8 miles instead of 20. If you look at commercial/industrial area's alongside I-45 heading for Galveston, you also see a fairly inefficient usage of space, having a lot of empty lots/area's within the industrial zones.


----------



## OakRidge

> A typical European truck like the Renault Magnum 440hp does 8.25MPG hauling 40t at 100km/h.
> 
> The Escalade does 12MPG at empty load, and the hybrid Escalade does 20MPG. Worse, it has a V8 engine.
> 
> It is only efficient by American standards.


I said comparable vehicles, the Renault is a semi and a small one at that. Both the Japanese and Europeans make large luxury SUVs that achieve far less mpg. One example is the Mazda CX-9. It is smaller, lighter, and has a significantly smaller engine than the Escalade but only achieves 14-17 mpg.

As for size, some people enjoy an amount of space in their vehicles. If you have a family a little space is especially nice. That is why the U.S. has gone from large station wagons, to large vans, to large SUVs. All primary used by families and all larger than their European or Japanese counterparts (in Japan and Europe). In addition the U.S. family has to drive a greater distance each year than their European or Japanese counterpart. When driving more space is nice.

And then their is the cost issue. Making a vehicle achieve 40mpg is not really necessary if gasoline is cheap. What's the point? Had Europe developed around the automobile, had gas been cheaper in Europe, and had population density been similar to that of the United States I am sure that European car development would have been similar to the development of the automobile in the United States.



> Why the hell need a commuter car to be 3 tonnes?


Keep in mind that the Escalade is an expensive luxury SUV. It is not a commuter car and it doesn't sell in high numbers.


----------



## pwalker

Chriszwolle said:


> I think Houston has the most inefficient land usage of any large city within the United States. They create unnecessary large commuting distances, leaving the central city with extreme traffic volumes, thus huge roads. I think Houstons freeways are also the ugliest in the United States with those huge parking lots, commercial zones and frontage roads alongside them, all in concrete.
> 
> The extreme parts of the urban area are 50 miles apart. That's extremely large for a city with a population of 5.6 million inhabitants. The traffic volumes are among the highest in the US, comparable with Los Angeles, while that metropolitan area is 3 times larger than Houston.
> 
> If you look at the area between I-45, I-610, US 90 and the SH-8, there are huge undeveloped areas around it, with suburbs even further away. Why not construct those suburbs closer to the city? Saves you easily a 100.000 people who have to commute 8 miles instead of 20. If you look at commercial/industrial area's alongside I-45 heading for Galveston, you also see a fairly inefficient usage of space, having a lot of empty lots/area's within the industrial zones.


Simple answer: Because it is Texas.

Real answer: The areas that are vacant are not the most desirable areas to live. People want to be near nice stores, restaurants, and other nice homes. So why not in-fill some of these areas with large, new developments? A lot of these areas are near industrial areas, railroad tracks, and what not. And, again, it's Texas. Different mindset there.


----------



## ADCS

Those photos were more like 30 years ago, btw. Notice the lack of skyscrapers


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## LtBk

Chriszwolle said:


> They are only twice as fuel efficient as fullsize European trucks of 40 tons. Why the hell need a commuter car to be 3 tonnes?
> 
> 
> 
> Let's not exaggerate, In Europe, the car is also the most efficient mode of transport for nearly all trips. Only city-center to city-center is usually faster with the train. 90% of all trips in the Netherlands also does not include public transport, which is the same number as in the United States. Yes, more things are in walking distance, but nobody is gonna do groceries for three days walking. Private transport is just much more efficient, which is also why we take our bicycle so much.


Do you have figures for other European countries? It seems you always think of Europe as same as the Netherlands in terms of PT use.


----------



## AUchamps

Chriszwolle said:


> I think Houston has the most inefficient land usage of any large city within the United States. They create unnecessary large commuting distances, leaving the central city with extreme traffic volumes, thus huge roads. I think Houstons freeways are also the ugliest in the United States with those huge parking lots, commercial zones and frontage roads alongside them, all in concrete.
> 
> The extreme parts of the urban area are 50 miles apart. That's extremely large for a city with a population of 5.6 million inhabitants. The traffic volumes are among the highest in the US, comparable with Los Angeles, while that metropolitan area is 3 times larger than Houston.
> 
> If you look at the area between I-45, I-610, US 90 and the SH-8, there are huge undeveloped areas around it, with suburbs even further away. Why not construct those suburbs closer to the city? Saves you easily a 100.000 people who have to commute 8 miles instead of 20. If you look at commercial/industrial area's alongside I-45 heading for Galveston, you also see a fairly inefficient usage of space, having a lot of empty lots/area's within the industrial zones.


Houston's like our Beijing. Beijing has what, 6 Ring Roads? Houston still has 2 to go in order to catch up.


----------



## HAWC1506

X236K said:


> What is a "Cell phone lot"?


That's where you can park to wait for people to call and tell you that they've arrived at the airport. 



Substructure said:


> Do you mean this kind of urbanism ?
> 
> http://www.cyburbia.org/gallery/data/500/Houston_near_CBD.jpg
> 
> http://www.islandia.is/lhm/images/parking-houston.jpg


Well, not as bad...but somewhere along those lines yeah.



Chriszwolle said:


> They are only twice as fuel efficient as fullsize European trucks of 40 tons. Why the hell need a commuter car to be 3 tonnes?


Americans do a lot of traveling and an above post is correct, more space is more comfort. But you have to keep in mind that Americans also do a lot of towing and hauling. You see a lot of Tahoes and Escalades, but you will also see a lot of boats or horse trailers being towed behind those cars. They are heavy because they are built on a truck platform, and only truck platforms are strong enough to tow 10,000 pounds.

Americans also look at initial price too. If you need a car to carry people and a truck to tow large trailers, you don't have to buy a Honda Accord and a Ford F-150. You could buy a Chevy Tahoe or Ford Explorer that does both jobs at the same time.

But, it's time for change. I'm just waiting for a diesel-powered Volkswagen Tiguan to show up on our shores...or Ford Mondeo, whichever one comes first.


----------



## AUchamps

We tried the Mondeo in the 90s. It was called the Contour and it failed because it was too big for the Ford Escort drivers and too small for the Ford Taurus drivers.

Today, the Mondeo would be too big for the Ford Focus drivers and too small for the Ford Fusion and Taurus drivers.


----------



## HAWC1506

AUchamps said:


> We tried the Mondeo in the 90s. It was called the Contour and it failed because it was too big for the Ford Escort drivers and too small for the Ford Taurus drivers.
> 
> Today, the Mondeo would be too big for the Ford Focus drivers and too small for the Ford Fusion and Taurus drivers.


Ford Mondeo is the same size as the Fusion. I think it would make for a great car since the Fusion is selling quite well. In a few years, the Fusion will be the odd one of the bunch as the Fiesta, Euro Focus, and new European-styled Taurus arrives. The U.S. lineup is going to mirror the European lineup within a couple years. The only difference is that we will have a sedan that slots above the Mondeo and also a few trucks.


----------



## X236K

HAWC1506 said:


> Ford Mondeo is the same size as the Fusion. I think it would make for a great car since the Fusion is selling quite well. In a few years, the Fusion will be the odd one of the bunch as the Fiesta, Euro Focus, and new European-styled Taurus arrives. The U.S. lineup is going to mirror the European lineup within a couple years. The only difference is that we will have a sedan that slots above the Mondeo and also a few trucks.


In European terms, Mondeo is mid-class while Fusion is a small MPV. There's even a Focus between them in terms of size. So, Fusion is not the same size as Mondeo.



LtBk said:


> Do you have figures for other European countries? It seems you always think of Europe as same as the Netherlands in terms of PT use.


I think all European countries are ± same, PT is quite popular BUT some 70% of families own at least one car.



HAWC1506 said:


> But, it's time for change. I'm just waiting for a diesel-powered Volkswagen Tiguan to show up on our shores...or Ford Mondeo, whichever one comes first.


Mondeo is not being sold in US...? BTW, Tiguan 2.0 TDI is the right choice. 34 mpg.


----------



## AUchamps

Your Ford Fusion:









American Ford Fusion:










http://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/fusion/
^Info on our 2009 Fusion.


----------



## HD

I wish they'd replace the mondeo in europe with the american fusion. I had a fusion as a rental car once, and I really liked it. mondeo is so f***ing boring. fusion isn't exactly exciting either but it has that certain something, which modeo lacks.

in general fords in europe are totally boring. today I would only buy the kuga.










back to the topic though: god, I love american highways.


----------



## X236K

AUchamps said:


> Your Ford Fusion:
> 
> American Ford Fusion:
> 
> http://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/fusion/
> ^Info on our 2009 Fusion.


Woops... I didn't know! I'm sorry! :bow:


----------



## HAWC1506

X236K said:


> Woops... I didn't know! I'm sorry! :bow:


Ah I'm glad we got the Fusion defused. Haha yeah same name, different cars on either side of the pond.

I think better American highways will bring better cars. If American highways are built with quality and speed, then so will our cars. Look at Germany. One of the legacies is that their cars are built to perform with their highway, and they almost always turn out to be built for high-speed Autobahn driving. America really needs this image. Instead, our car companies are in the state of Michigan, which also has some of the worst roads in the United States.


----------



## HAWC1506

HD said:


> I wish they'd replace the mondeo in europe with the american fusion. I had a fusion as a rental car once, and I really liked it. mondeo is so f***ing boring. fusion isn't exactly exciting either but it has that certain something, which modeo lacks.
> 
> in general fords in europe are totally boring. today I would only buy the kuga.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> back to the topic though: god, I love american highways.


You don't like the new Mondeo or Fiesta?!?!??


----------



## HD

the new mondeo is ok. the fiesta too. would never buy one though.

having said that ... the US models aren't very exciting either ... 

conclusion: ford sucks (excluding mustang and kuga)


----------



## guri_gdl

AUchamps said:


> I saw a special on this exact thing happening about 10 years ago on NBC Dateline. Family from California was down in the Baja and got in an accident and the dad got thrown in Jail.
> 
> http://studentsafety.ucsd.edu/mexico_tips.asp
> 
> Game. Set. MATCH.


If there's an accident, and SOMEONE DIES there they arrest the driver (or the drivers if there where many cars in the accident) until they do some research and get to know who's guilty (Only around 12-72 hours)... They can't arrest you if there wasn't any death person


----------



## HD

Chriszwolle said:


> We are not so keen on Polish or Russian trucks too, because of the lack of maintenance, and a higher than average accident-involvement rate.


but we don't stop them from using our highways ...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

HD said:


> but we don't stop them from using our highways ...


Ofcourse not, trade should be free. 

As long as their trucks meet the Dutch requirements, there's not much we can do. However, you see that they are catching up really fast with their trucks. I drove in Germany last week, and nearly all Eastern European trucks were newer than the German ones I saw. 

A recurring problem is that foreign truckers often exceed their driving time, you can read stories about truckers having driven 20 hours in a row in the newspapers. I don't know what kind of legislation there is in the United States about driving times, I read trucker stories about truckers who drive like 800 miles a day, which would be unthinkable in the European Union. With our speed limits, a trucker can drive about 750 kilometers a day without major delays. That said, I have to mention most trucking destinations are usually within a 2 - 3 day range (thus a 2000 km / 1200 miles range). Distances within the US are much larger, especially in the west.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I noticed even LA has few traffic jams during the summer months. When can we expect the holiday season to be over, and traffic turning back to normal? In Europe, it differs a bit, southern countries have usually the entire month of august vacation, while northern countries usually go during Juli, the Netherlands and Germany for instance already coming back from holidays and go to school.


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## LtBk

Maybe its due to high gas prices? Americans don't have long vacations like many countries do.


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## ChrisZwolle

The number of miles driven should decrease way more than those 60 miles/month/drivers license they seen now, in order to have nearly no traffic jams.


----------



## hoosier

OakRidge said:


> And then their is the cost issue. Making a vehicle achieve 40mpg is not really necessary if gasoline is cheap. What's the point? Had Europe developed around the automobile, had gas been cheaper in Europe, and had population density been similar to that of the United States I am sure that European car development would have been similar to the development of the automobile in the United States.


The U.S. is pretty densely populated in many parts, there are just a few states that are pretty empty. It was conscious government policy to build America for the automobile. Streetcars lines were torn up, billions were pumped into airports and roads and rail was left at a huge comparative disadvantage. Local zoning laws permitted auto-centric sprawl and racism led whites to flee the inner-city.


Good MPG is important because burning less gas produces less toxic air pollution. 

Europe has a dense freeway system in addition to a good passenger rail network. Europena governments aren't controlled by auto manufacturers and oil companies.


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## X236K

hoosier said:


> Good MPG is important because burning less gas produces less toxic air pollution.


Pollution is IMHO a secondary problem in developed countries. Current economic slowdown, soaring material prices and *Peak Oil *are the topics of the day. Soon the gas polution problem will start to disappear as less and less crude will be available.



hoosier said:


> Europe has a dense freeway system in addition to a good passenger rail network. Europena governments aren't controlled by auto manufacturers and oil companies.


Europe is controlled by European Commission which is controlled by... ergh...? How are they elected..? Who controls them..? :nuts:


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## horiababu

Oh, i heard also about policemen in Miami who don't know English. Is that true?:nuts:


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## HAWC1506

Chriszwolle said:


> I noticed even LA has few traffic jams during the summer months. When can we expect the holiday season to be over, and traffic turning back to normal? In Europe, it differs a bit, southern countries have usually the entire month of august vacation, while northern countries usually go during Juli, the Netherlands and Germany for instance already coming back from holidays and go to school.


Summer usually loosens up a bit with most people traveling somewhere else. I noticed that during the summer, rural traffic increases by quite a bit though. I traveled through I-90 and I-82 and I don't think I have ever seen so many cars on rural highways. It could be that summer is an agricultural season so all the farmers and trucks start doing traveling.


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## swaugh3

*Denver: The Controversy of Interstate 470*

For some reason, Interstate 470 was never constructed. Instead we now have E-470, a toll highway that spans the eastern half of the supposed-to-be beltway and Colorado 470 (C-470 by locals) that takes up the western half. Both highways have yet to form a complete beltway as the northwest segment has yet to be built. Toll or no toll, why wasn't Interstate 470 constructed?


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Wikipedia:



> Originally planned as Interstate 470 in the 1960s, the beltway project was attacked on environmental impact grounds and the interstate beltway was never built. The portion of "Interstate 470" that was built as a state highway is the present-day SH 470, which is a freeway for its entire length.


So, same thing in a different package. You see that in Europe too, with expressways which meet motorway standards popping up all over the continent, especially in Central and Southern Europe.


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## mgk920

Chriszwolle said:


> ^^ Wikipedia:
> 
> 
> 
> So, same thing in a different package. You see that in Europe too, with expressways which meet motorway standards popping up all over the continent, especially in Central and Southern Europe.


Also, the money that was budgeted for I-470 was instead spent on metro-area transit improvements. Since the need for the road happened anyway, the only way to get it financed was through toll revenue bonds.

Mike


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## Mr. Met

bgplayer19 said:


> What a nonsense!Why would they built a multilane higway all the way to Churchill(pop:1000 I think).In my point of view it's better to connect Winnipeg and Regina


It may not be important where it starts or ends, I think it is more important of what is between the two.


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## HAWC1506

Okay most ridiculous piece of news I've EVER heard:

Don't be a slowpoke in left lane, police say

By Yoshiaki Nohara and Jerry Cornfield, Herald Writers
It's a problem that many drivers cause on freeways without knowing it's illegal.

It's against the state law to go slow in the left lane of highways and back up traffic. Violators could face a fine of $124.

Troopers rarely issue a ticket, State Patrol trooper Keith Leary said. They try to educate drivers that the fast lane is meant to be used for passing, Leary said. Once a driver finishes passing another vehicle, they need to return to the right lanes.

"It's something people forget about," Leary said.

Slow drivers in the fast lane frustrate others, Leary said.

"It could definitely be a trigger for road rage," he said.

Tom Santeford of Camano Island said that sometimes he see drivers going too slowly in the passing lane. Many drivers also go much faster than the speed limit in that lane and stay there after passing other vehicles.

Allowing drivers to go faster along the passing lane than in other lanes would improve traffic flow, Santeford said.

His wife Kelly Santeford said that some drivers seem to be using carpool lanes for passing. The state finished widening I-5 with new carpool lanes in Everett this year to move traffic faster.

"It's little confusing sometimes," she said.

Carpool lanes aren't to be used for passing, Leary said.

Herb Durant and Tasha Nagy often drive from Abbotsford in British Columbia to Seattle to spend a weekend. Slow drivers back up traffic in the left lane in that province as well, but it's legal do so there.

The couple said they didn't know it's illegal in Washington. Durant said he usually drives in the very right lane along I-5.

"I have a lot of patience for driving. I love to drive slow," Durant said.

He said he can see why going slow in the passing lane is dangerous.

"They should get a ticket," he said. "They are as dangerous as going at 120 (mph)."

State lawmakers say they are not considering changing the law. They want the State Patrol to focus on education rather than ticketing for enforcement.

Rep. Liz Loomis, D-Snohomish, the vice chairwoman of the House Transportation Committee, said that she hopes the State Patrol is emphasizing the "common courtesy" involved in slower drivers getting out of the fast lane so the flow of traffic isn't impeded.

"I wouldn't be running around giving people tickets," Loomis said "I would be out educating people about why it's the law and why it's just common courtesy to stay in the right lane to let faster traffic pass you."

The law's intent is to make sure the flow of traffic is maximized and bottlenecks prevented, said Rep. Norma Smith, R-Clinton, a member of the House Transportation Committee.

"If there are people creating a hazard you want the State Patrol to do what's appropriate," she said. "I would expect the State Patrol will use common sense."

Danise Bell of Marysville said that she tries to avoid driving in the passing lane where drivers go too fast or too slow.

"I see them a lot," Bell said. "It causes traffic problems. It becomes a mess."

Troopers should ticket those drivers, Bell said. A law without enforcement is worthless.

Troopers don't plan to crack down on drivers in the left lane, Leary said. They want drivers to know the law and follow it.

"This is not an old law we are dusting off to come after you," he said.


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## G5man

That was on the major Seattle TV stations about a month or two ago. I see quite a few people that create blockades from going the same speed in the left lane as the guy in the right which does get irritable.


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## HAWC1506

Yeah but what's a law if there is no enforcement?


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## ManRegio

WeimieLvr said:


> The Downtown Connector, the I-75/I-85 combination that runs several miles through Atlanta, is 8 lanes on each side much of the way. Sometimes traffic moves, sometimes it doesn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gt7348b/55607824/


No frontage road on that Freeway????. 
I believe that all the Freeways in the US have frontage or acces road.


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## algonquin

I was on the I-90 today outside of Buffalo. The tollbooths in the US are ridiculous; there was a traffic jam just to get through the damn thing. Then another to go over Grand Island. They need to ditch those in favour of fully electronic tolling. No stopping, no slowing down, no traffic woes. And no need for a fistfull of dollar bills in your car either.


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## Xusein

Yeah, Grand Island is ridiculous. I feel sorry for the people living there dealing with those tolls.

The view from the north bridge of NFON's (niagara falls, ont) skyline is great though.


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## mgk920

ManRegio said:


> No frontage road on that Freeway????.
> I believe that all the Freeways in the US have frontage or acces road.


Frontage/access roads are more the exception than the rule on USA freeways/tollways. Some areas use them more than others (ie, Texas and metro Detroit, MI), but they are the exception.

Local access is normally maintained via nearby streets.

Mike


----------



## Fern~Fern*

xXFallenXx said:


> I'm pretty sure you're talking about the North American Union conspiracy crap, right?



^ Are you sure it's a conspiracy XfX???


----------



## Sea Toby

The NAFTA highway will be I-69, from Laredo to Detroit. Its the only planned extension of the interstate highway system. In Texas, much of Hwy 59 and Hwy 79 will be turned into an interstate, controlled access highway. Since the state of Texas has ripped off its state gasoline tax per gallon, more than half of the tax, to fund schools and hospitals, the Texas DOT has no money. The contractor for I-69 in Texas, the formidable HPZachary will fund the highway improvements with short toll road bypasses around every town on the route. The interstate will be free between towns, but there will be significant tolls bypassing the towns, effectively building a long turnpike for through traffic. 

Because of huge growth of Texas, along with the Nafta traffic, Texas roads will have double the traffic of today within 20 years. So if you think traffic is horrible now, it will be more awful in 20 years. The Trans Texas Corridors scheme of Governor Perry failed to pass in the state legislature. While the rural areas of the state have conceded that the Dallas and Houston urban areas can have toll roads, the rural areas are against toll roads in the rural areas, except for I-69. 

The Texas DOT is so scrapped for money today, much less the future, they have already conceded that there won't be another state highway built. They have also said without managed lanes on the freeways, none of the freeways will be expanded. The key is the word managed lanes, another word for a toll road. At a time when much of the interstate highway system will have to be rebuilt, the state DOT only has funds to resurface current highways, there is again no money for new or expanded roads without managed lanes. 

Frankly, the state of Texas needs to stop raiding the state highway tax funds, finding another alternative to fund schools and hospitals. Yes, a tax increase. Otherwise, Texas faces a huge financial crisis, come hell or high water. This information comes from the state of Texas DOT, in every highway project projected for the future.

I thought I would add a side note here at the end. Considering that the price of oil has tripled within the past two to three years, its amazing how many still refuse to increase the gasoline tax a few cents a gallon or significantly change the tax system to fund schools and hospitals. If the public can swallow $3.00 increases for a gallon of gasoline, surely several cents of new taxes is nothing in comparison.

While many northern Americans find that graph posted before unreal, the simple truth is that graph reflects trucking patterns today and projected into the future. Its the old Sun belt vs. Rust belt argument all over again. The south is growing, the north isn't. Texas is no longer the fifth largest state per population, it is now Second only to California. The Houston and Dallas/Fort Worth metroplexes have already passed Detroit, and will soon pass Philadelphia for fourth. In twenty years, both are expected to pass Chicago for third. Both within 20 years will only be behind LA and NY.

Much more trade is expected from Asia in the future. Unfortunately, we only have five transcontinental mainline railroad east-west passes. No more railroad passes are expected. Yes, the continental divide is that tough. Give credit for the five we do have to the nineteenth century railroad barrons. Thanks to Panama widening the canal, Texas and many southern ports will be expanded. Unfortunately, that can not be said of the west coast ports, all being squeezed by housing areas. There is another railroad line through northern Mexico, the South Orient line. While its a good railroad in Mexico, Union Pacific abandoned its southwest Texas connection to South Orient. The state of Texas DOT is attempting to find funds to rebuild this connection, to create a sixth railroad pass for the USA/Mexico. Canada has two passes too, but they are just as busy as ours hauling Canadian goods.


----------



## ddki39

I just glanced at both presidential websites and McCain does not mention transportation while Obama seems to have a plan as far as congestion management is concerned. Obama's approach seems to be to fix what we have (bridges, highways, railroads, etc...) and invest in more mass transit for cities and also more investment in high-speed rail networks while also improve river transportation and port security.


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## Timon91

Well, it's time to get the Mass Transit fine. A month or two ago I was in an Atlanta suburb, and the only way to get to Atlanta is by car. In Atlanta there is a mass-transit system (MARTA), but it only runs to the border of the city, and then it stops. Same situation in Dayton and Cincinnati. The two cities are 50-60 miles apart, and both are quite big. The Interstate between them (I-75) is often congested. Still, people prefer to drive, or even worse, to fly. Since I had a horrible ticket, I was 'forced' to take a Delta flight between Cincinnati and Dayton, and I was shocked when I saw that the plane was completely full with people who went shopping or to work. I don't know if there is a train or sth, but regarding the fact that everyone drives or flies, I don't think so. So that's the main problem: the US relies too much on cars and planes. hno:


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## KIWIKAAS

^^
Thats a pretty good summary.
The US has unfortunately invested it's wealth in a living arrangement which has no future in the 21st century


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## Timon91

Well, the big problem is that they relied on the low oil prices. Lots of Americans thought they would stay low forever. Now it turns out to be wrong, and here you are. Now they wish they had a good mass-transit system.


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## AUchamps

KIWIKAAS said:


> ^^
> Thats a pretty good summary.
> The US has unfortunately invested it's wealth in a living arrangement which has no future in the 21st century


Keep in mind, that the early part of our car-centric growth(post WWII until about 1975-1980) was primarily driven on whites wanting to get away from the cities and essentially leave the poor blacks to fend for themselves(or "white flight" as we call it). Granted Europe has a similar situation with suburbs that are ghettoized but those places were built from the ground up with immigrants from North Africa and the Middle East. Both situations were pretty damn sorry, and in this day and age you're finally starting to see the racial boundaries going down in big ways(both in the Americas and Europe). Abandonment begets Poverty, which in turn begets Violence and lack of education/transferrable skills.


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## KIWIKAAS

Not really.
It was more a flight from 19th / early 20th century industrial city living. Most blacks lived in rural areas when the first waves headed for the suburbs. The 1950's and 60's saw a massive influx of African Americans to the cities who as lower end income earners filled up the void created by the departed working and middle classes in the central areas. Unfortunately the whole suburban experiment is based on a steady supply of cheap fossil fuel. That age is drawing to a close which poses the question as to what is going to happen to the 50+% of Americans who live in the outer suburbs of cities. We are seeing ''energy poverty'' increasing as the lower incomes are now seeing up to 40% of their income go up in energy costs. It won't be long before we see the middle class hamoraging their earnings into just getting to work. A similar situation exists in countries like Canada, Australia and New Zealand where car use is endemic. 
Europe has it's racially based neighbourhoods too and there was an exodus of the middle classes to new suburbs from the late 70's (somewhat later than the afore mentioned countries). But these suburbs are by and large compact and situated relatively close to urban centres. Because of their compact nature they are also well served by PT. Sprawl hasn't occured in Europe like in the more car centric countries. Even SUV driving Europeans will have easy access to alternative transport when driving becomes too expensive. The same can't be said for most Americans.


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## ChrisZwolle

I like the Portland urban growth model. It's called smart growth I believe. Concentrating population along light rail lines instead of endless suburbia where public transport never stands a chance. 

I think the problem with urban growth in the US was that everyone could affort a suburban house on a nice lot. You nearly have to be a millionaire to own the average house in say, a Dallas suburb in Europe. I mean, what's wrong with decent rowhouses? 

I think the westcoast suburbia of even LA is a hell lot better than the nearly rural area's around the large cities on the eastcoast. Did you know the Netherlands and Flanders is even more densely populated on average than Atlanta metro? 

However, I don't see the Paris suburbia (sea of rundown flats) or commieblocks as a great way to live. I think it's somewhere in between, more mixed neighborhoods than homogenous suburbs. They try to create that model in the Netherlands.


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## ChrisZwolle

Atlanta is probably the most extreme example how NOT to create an urban area, in terms of infrastructure and urbanetics. I guess the living quality is very high here though. I wouldn't mind living there, but commuting, no thanks.

Everything within this picture is an urbanized area. It becomes worse, because there's 20 miles of urbanized area south of this picture (the pic is taken looking north). 









Another picture. Nearly everything in this picture is semi-rural, urbanized area within the Atlanta metropolitan area. As far as my eyes can see..


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## Timon91

Well, I've been in some of Atlanta suburbs and most people there don't mind driving big distances to get to work. There is a very high living standard over there. So big houses, pools, big gardens, etc. This is also because in the suburbs where I've been, lots of pilotes are living. I remember when I was there five years ago, I saw lots of houses for sale, because Delta fired lots of pilots to cut costs. But yes, the suburbs run as far as you can see, which is not a good thing hno:


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## ChrisZwolle

There's also not a line between where Atlanta ends, and rural areas begin. 

For instance, the most eastern urbanized area is over 50km/30 miles away from downtown. The northernmost suburbs are about 55 km / 35 miles away from downtown.

And that for an urbanized area of about 5 million inhabitants. You can fit those easily on an area that's 11 times smaller. (100x100km vs 30x30km), without the place getting that crowded. 

However, this is how the cards are dealt. Bad decisions from the past in urbanized areas can hardly be undone without huge investments. It would mean the relocation of millions of people. But we can learn from the mistakes from the past, restricting new urban development to stricter rules about a minimal density.


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## Alex Von Königsberg

ChrisZwolle said:


> I like the Portland urban growth model. It's called smart growth I believe. Concentrating population along light rail lines instead of endless suburbia where public transport never stands a chance.


Yeah, Portland relies more heavily on light rail than other West Coast cities. Seattle is catching up too with its metro system. 



> I think the westcoast suburbia of even LA is a hell lot better than the nearly rural area's around the large cities on the eastcoast. Did you know the Netherlands and Flanders is even more densely populated on average than Atlanta metro?


I can't really compare East coast suburbs with those of West coast, but I can
tell you from my experience (6 years living in Sacramento suburbia) that without a car you cannot do anything there. It gets even so extreme that you cannot access some neighbourhoods other than by car. Where I lived, the closest grocery store was 3 kms away. With car, you need about 5 minutes to get there, and all may seem well. Now, imagine that for whatever reason (other than financial difficulties) petrol becomes unavailable for an extended period of time. People would be screwed. Even if you walk for half-hour to get to the store, you can't possibly buy more than 5-6 kg of groceries and other needed stuff. Of course, it is an extreme example, but it may happen one day due to a natural disaster.


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## ChrisZwolle

Well, I have to admit I do grocery shopping too with my car, and so do a lot of people from my neighborhood. I'm living in a 4-person household, so I need to buy a lot of stuff at the same time, which I cannot carry with my bike. 

However, I see them make stupid policy decision in the Netherlands, like restricting bikes from the shopping streets so you have to carry your stuff all the way to your bike. People switch back to cars for shopping that way, which is not really a good thing.


----------



## Timon91

Well, when you have to buy lots of stuff, it's not very inviting to go by bike. I use my bike a lot for school/work/shopping, and if I don't, I use the train or bus. However, I'm only 16, so I don't have my drivers licence yet. I think I do 160 kms by bike per week in a normal week.


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## mgk920

*New section of (future) interstate opens*

Running about 12 km from Lindley, NY to Tioga, PA, a new four lane section of US 15 (future I-99) opened on Wednesday, 2008-10-01.

See:
http://www.the-leader.com/homepage/x556002023

:dance:

Mike


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## ChrisZwolle

That closes the last 2-lane gap between Williamsport and the New York State border. Just north of Williamsport, there's still a section missing at freeway standards. Any plans to improve the US 15 between Williamsport and Harrisburg? It's a four-lane highway all the way right now.


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## Tom 958

ChrisZwolle said:


> That closes the last 2-lane gap between Williamsport and the New York State border. Just north of Williamsport, there's still a section missing at freeway standards. Any plans to improve the US 15 between Williamsport and Harrisburg? It's a four-lane highway all the way right now.


IIRC there was a study underway for a freeway running from Selinsgrove to the end of the PA 147 freeway, but, weirdly, I don't find anything about it or any other studies on PennDOT's website, which is where I would've read about it.


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## LtBk

Atlanta sprawl may have high standards of living, but I bet its very boring for many people and ugly as well(strip malls and big box chain stores all over the place as examples).


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## Tom 958

*I-85 and friends, 
Lawrenceville GA to Cary NC
Part 3, near Greenville SC
part 1 (page 36)
part 2 (page 40)*

I forgot to mention--maybe you figured it out: on the previous 2x3 section of I-85, the pavement was completely replaced (that's how the southbound roadway got to be all-concrete ). On the next, the existing pavement was overlaid, but the bridges were all replaced, allowing provision of a full-width left shoulder throughout. The work was done in the late '80's-early '90's, and the pavement isn't in great shape. There's cracking where the new lanes don't align with the old, as you can see here. Here's an unusual median treatment, with the jersey barriers continuing even as the median becomes very wide.









==========================================================

There are at least three bridge guardrail designs used for the bridges over this section: the usual low jersey barrier, the taller concrete pedestrian-friendly design in the next photo, and this rakish-looking metal design. The vertical posts are very slim and are almost invisible when viewed from directly perpendicular.









==========================================================

Chaotic-looking signs approaching the I-185 interchange, which you see in the background. The signs on the southbound side are simpler, without the horizontal line and the two-signs-in-one look. 









The I-185 interchange has a cloverdirectional layout. This layout was popular up until the early '70's since it provides all movements cheaply and with no weaving and has a geometric bias that's useful for skewed crossings. It fell out of favor because it also requires two wrong-side exits or entrances. There were five of these on I-285 in Atlanta and many others elsewhere, but AFAIK this is the first that's been built anywhere for a long time.

OT for this post since I couldn't justify a detour for photos: While we're in the neighborhood, check our the I-185/385/US 276 interchange on the south side of Greenville. Originally this was the US 276 freeway running NW to SE. The connection to the northern/eastern leg of I-385 was added (as was the I-385 designation) in the '80's, then I-185 was scabbed on around 2000 IIRC. The connection of I-185 to I-385 north runs along a massive mountain of fill nearly a mile long.

==========================================================

North of I-185 the full reconstruction continues though two collector-distributor systems, one at US 25 and SC 20, the other at Augusta Road, SC 292 and Mauldin Road. There is provision on the right side of each roadway for an eventual 2x4 mainline-- in fact, where there's a jersey barrier between the CD's and the mainline, the lanes are paved but not striped for use, as you see here at US 25.









==========================================================

Entering the second CD system...









...and leaving. The provision for an extra two lanes on the mainline ends just _before_ the end of the CD system. WTF? From here all the way to Green 85 in Spartanburg, it's back to 2x3 and a jersey barrier median with narrow left shoulders.









==========================================================

The I-385 interchange. I-385 used to extend only westward from I-85, ending at a trumpet interchange. It was extended eastward to the US 276 freeway in the '80's IIRC, and this interchange was duly expanded. Unusually, the central spans of the old trumpet bridge over I-85 were used for the ramp from eastbound 385 to northbound 85. New spans were added over the new CD's, built in the same style as the old bridge. As you can see, the center spans are horribly rusted and could collapse at any time could use some paint.









===================================================================

BMW built its much-coveted US plant along I-85 north of Greenville, and in preparation most of the interchanges between Greenville and Spartanburg were rebuilt: There are new bridges, relocated frontage roads, some onbound loop ramps, and this single point interchange at SC 14. A CD northbound and a ramp braid southbound connect this interchange to the airport access road. Note: the Google satellite photo shows the SPUI but not the CD or ramp braid-- they were built later..









=========================================================

Despite the bridge replacements and provision for extra mainline lanes, the narrow left shoulder remains. Perhaps it will be added if they ever expend this section to 2x4. 

The Brockman-McClimon Road on that sign is actually an almost-stack interchange directly serving the BMW plant. I took photos of the interchange, but they suck-- sorry.


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## HAWC1506

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Yeah, Portland relies more heavily on light rail than other West Coast cities. Seattle is catching up too with its metro system.


Nooo way Mr. Alex, Seattle is DECADES away from catching up. The only light rail planned is from the airport to downtown. A vote is going to go on November about a 36-mile light rail extension to Bellevue and other areas. What does that mean? 

If passed: Seattle will have a complete 52-mile light rail system by year 2030.

If not: Seattle won't get anything.

That means that even if it passes, it's going to be a long time. I'm sixteen now in 2008, so add 22 years and I will be 38 years old before I will be able to ride the light rail in Bellevue. If we have Dino Rossi as a governor in November, then chances are I should start saving up for an immigration to the UK.


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## AUchamps

HAWC1506 said:


> Nooo way Mr. Alex, Seattle is DECADES away from catching up. The only light rail planned is from the airport to downtown. A vote is going to go on November about a 36-mile light rail extension to Bellevue and other areas. What does that mean?
> 
> If passed: Seattle will have a complete 52-mile light rail system by year 2030.
> 
> If not: Seattle won't get anything.
> 
> That means that even if it passes, it's going to be a long time. I'm sixteen now in 2008, so add 22 years and I will be 38 years old before I will be able to ride the light rail in Bellevue. If we have Dino Rossi as a governor in November, then chances are I should start saving up for an immigration to the UK.


Rossi won last time, and that's all I have to say about that.


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## HAWC1506

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nice pics
> 
> Strange arrows and font:


Yeah, Washington is pretty inconsistent when it comes to standards. There are some vague roadmarkings too where you can't tell the difference between a solid white line and a double white line.


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## geoking66

Los Angeles : epitome of poor urban planning. Still, the New York City MSA (excluding the Pike County portion that shouldn't be in there anyway) is denser than the Los Angeles MSA.


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## hoosier

DJZG said:


> is there any detailed map of LA highways...


How detailed do you want? Go to randmcnally.com and search for LA maps.


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## HAWC1506

Only in Seattle...makes me sick.

*Eyman's latest aims at traffic jams; but will it work?*

Story Published: Oct 12, 2008 at 3:10 PM PDT

Story Updated: Oct 12, 2008 at 5:50 PM PDT
By CURT WOODWARD, Associated Press Writer
OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) - Taking aim at one of modern life's biggest frustrations, initiative promoter Tim Eyman is offering a measure that he claims will smooth out traffic jams, from those poorly timed small-town stoplights to the sea of cars on our biggest freeways.

Perhaps its most appealing bait: Solo drivers tired of being teased by more efficient travelers would get a shot at the car pool lane.

"Everybody has had that experience," Eyman says. "Middle of the day, bumper to bumper traffic, that empty lane sitting right next to you, and saying, 'I paid for that lane! If it were open to everyone, traffic would flow better."'

If it sounds too good to be true, a truckload of critics says you're right. They paint Eyman's latest as a poorly conceived blueprint that will scramble a strapped state budget, spend the whole state's money on a few urban traffic jams, and actually make some commuters' daily drudgery even worse.

With less than a week until absentee ballots are mailed to voters, the "no" campaign says it's steadily picking apart Eyman's sales pitch.

"The problem with Mr. Eyman is, when he's faced with the questioning on this, there's not much gas in the tank," said former state transportation secretary Doug MacDonald, a spokesman for the opposition.

If approved by voters, I-985 goes into effect in December. It would open up car pool lanes for all traffic, except for the "peak" hours of 6 a.m.-9 a.m. and 3 p.m.-6 p.m. on weekdays.

The initiative also would mandate synchronized traffic lights in cities and counties, and push the state to clear up accidents faster.

To pay for these new programs, I-985 would skim a slice of the state sales tax on vehicles, collect any "profit" from tolls, and grab the traffic ticket money from cameras that nab red-light runners.

Any money left over after fulfilling those goals would go to laying new roads - not buses, trains or any other projects that, in Eyman's estimation, don't help the state's hard-working, traffic-addled drivers.

Eyman pitches I-985 as a follow-up to State Auditor Brian Sonntag's 2007 report on possible solutions for the state's traffic tie-ups - a report issued after a previous Eyman initiative, I-900, created the performance audit program.

That audit made 22 recommendations, but Eyman says the Legislature and state Transportation Department have been too slow to make changes. Passing I-985, he says, "swift-kicks Olympia in the shins" by forcing the politicians into action.

But out of Sonntag's 22 recommendations, I-985 only implements two: coordinating traffic signals and clearing up crashes. Eyman says to avoid his solution, the Legislature should have acted first.

"Hey guys, you had your chance to do it your way. You have no standing to criticize the way we did it," Eyman said, adding that his ultimate goal is to ensure lawmakers pay more attention to future performance audits.

To counter Eyman's message, MacDonald and the opposition have taken up an Eymanesque argument - that his statewide policy for traffic problems will inevitably spend more money on urban areas where traffic is worst, giving rural or suburban folks short shrift.

"People have figured out that giant sucking sound is the sound of money going to Seattle from Eastern Washington," MacDonald said. "That's hardly been an Eyman trademark."

They've also got more nuanced attacks. New restrictions on tolling, for instance, would make it impossible to charge for crossing Lake Washington on both I-90 and State Route 520, which officials say is necessary to sufficiently pay for the 520 bridge replacement.

If I-90 is left toll-free, as I-985 would have it, too many drivers will bypass the 520 toll booths, driving down toll collections that are a major part of the new bridge's financing plan.

And opening up all car pool lanes could be a disaster in places, such as I-5, where car pool lanes are converted shoulders that sometimes fly away from the freeway on separate ramps.

More cars in those lanes will eventually mean more wrecks in hard-to-reach spots, MacDonald says, which won't help anybody reach their destination faster.

Opponents worry, however, that there's not enough room in a crowded election year to make a comprehensive case against I-985. If they can't get enough of their arguments in front of voters, the emotional tug of essentially voting against bad traffic could prevail.

"I know we could catch him if we had enough time," MacDonald says. "The thing is falling apart at the seams every day."

For his part, Eyman already has a victory "Freedom Drive" sketched out.

He plans to pilot a pickup - alone - in the highway car pool lanes during the first free-for-all period after the law takes effect. A sign in the back will read: "Drive in this lane. You paid for it. It's the law."


----------



## Nikkodemo

Amazing pics...mg:

Unbelieveable!!!

Wonderful freeways!!!


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

I hate people like Eyman :lol: It's a shame he lives in Seattle. It would be hard to imagine something like this happening in Bay Area.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Public Purpose about Smart Growth in Portland. They apparantly don't think it's a good solution.

The author is Wendell Cox, some traffic expert.



> However, traffic intensity (vehicle miles per square mile) is not, in itself, a determinant of traffic congestion. For example, an urban area with a modest traffic intensity, but with a substandard road network can have worse traffic congestion than an area with much greater traffic intensity.


Interesting approach in measuring traffic intensity. I have never read about this kind of measuring (vehicle miles per square unit) in the Netherlands, they usually only look at the traffic volumes per road. 



> Atlanta is an example of an urban area with a substandard road network (the virtual lack of a quality arterial street system), relatively low traffic intensity and highly congested traffic.


He seems about right here. Problem is the road network did not catch up with the extreme vastness of the Atlanta agglomeration. But what to do about it? You can widen or add freeways in those suburban areas but how wide should the system be around downtown? You can't just add endless amounts of lanes around downtown areas. And downtown Atlanta's freeways are already pretty wide. Maybe it's the way how the network is layed out. Too much traffic centers around the I-75/I-85 overlap. Perhaps they should've build a small beltway around downtown with a bit more radiating expressways/freeways so traffic is more spread out and reduces the chances for huge delays on the one freeway that's actually there. 



> But holding the roadway system constant, higher densities will make traffic congestion worse.


Yeah makes sense. Higher densities give public transport a chance of being efficient, however PT does not takes enough traffic off the road in order not having to increase capacity of the existing highway network.


----------



## DJZG

hoosier said:


> How detailed do you want? Go to randmcnally.com and search for LA maps.


thx for help  i found what i was looking for  

i found this map if its accurate?


----------



## Tom 958

Wendell Cox is a shill. He begs the question by ignoring most every aspect of transportation and land use planning other than road congestion. He isn't taken seriously as a transportation expert, and if you put much stock in what he says, you won't be, either. Besides that, roadbuilding on the massive scale he advocates simply isn't feasible.

Re Eyman's plan, I think it's dumb, too, but the part-time HOV lanes on I-20 in Atlanta were an unexpected law enforcement bonanza. As it turns out, people get confused about when they can and can't use the lanes, and petty criminals, being stupid, are more prone to such confusion than most people. Stops for HOV violations often revealed stolen cars, outstanding warrants, no insurance, that kind of thing.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

He has some good points though. However, I don't agree with him on urban planning and zoning for instance, you don't want more of those Houston/Atlanta lookalikes. I'm not sure about Portland though. I've read somewhere it's congestion is the highest per capita. 

Well, I think there can be much debate about how things should be measured. That's the problem with statistics, you can turn it into the way you want it.


----------



## HAWC1506

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> I hate people like Eyman :lol: It's a shame he lives in Seattle. It would be hard to imagine something like this happening in Bay Area.


Someone called me a liberal on that news page (in the comments section). I hate people like that. All they care about is themselves, and that reflects a lot of Americans actually.


----------



## Tom 958

HAWC1506 said:


> Someone called me a liberal on that news page (in the comments section). I hate people like that. All they care about is themselves, and that reflects a lot of Americans actually.


I don't wanna be another I-don't-carican.


----------



## TaterTot

*SPUI*

There's one in San Jose on CA 87 @ Taylor Street. Very nice.


----------



## HAWC1506

Tom 958 said:


> I don't wanna be another I-don't-carican.


Yeah things have to change haha time for a great awakening in the land of the free.


----------



## hoosier

^^Yes that is very accurate.


----------



## Tom 958

Thanks for the pics, but this one annoys me. Are we out in the sticks somewhere?









Here's one I took yesterday from the opposite roadway. The previous pic was taken from under the lowest bridge. All the bridges have retrofitted suicide fencing.









While we're in the neighborhood, here's one of my favorites: MARTA's crossing of I-75/85 downtown. The MARTA aerial was built before the widening of I-75/85 was designed, so the piers had to be relocated to accommodate the highway. To the left, the square box with the rust stain is like giant hands grasping the top of what used to be a pier. Right of that, two elbows sit atop new piers between the mainline and an onramp, and right of there the shoulders are a free-standing abutment with the concrete arms post tensioned downward against uplift. Pretty neat, huh?


----------



## Timon91

Tom 958 said:


> Thanks for the pics, but this one annoys me. Are we out in the sticks somewhere?


What do you mean?


----------



## Tom 958

^^It's right in the middle of downtown, but there are no highrises or cool bridges in view.

I apologize if I hurt your feelings-- I appreciate the photos.  And I've been meaning to post one of that MARTA bridge for a while-- now I've gotten off my butt and done it.


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## Timon91

Ah, ok, I didn't know that expression :lol:, and no, you didn't hurt my feelings.


----------



## HAWC1506

Tom 958 said:


>


That bridgedeck looks really thin.


----------



## HAWC1506

^^The U.S. is only smart enough to design traffic safety, but not educate about/enforce traffic safety. Thinking here is so short-term it's not even funny...That's what happens when you have a nation full of wasteful, conservative idiots who think they're still in the 1950s. 

We can build, but we can't educate, we can't maintain and we can't do anything other than sitting on our behinds and complain. And yet we wonder why our traffic is so bad, why we are behind in transportation and why our quality of life is falling.

I have a lot of respect for the government who built the Interstates in the 1950s. Forward-thinking was better back then. Now, everything seems so hopeless. Where are the good leaders? I can only hope that someone influential and smart enough will take lead of this country soon. The U.S. has always done a great job bouncing back from disasters like the current economical crisis, so I hope we can take another 'great leap' in a few years.

But for the current United States, the picture Konrakfon posted says it all.

Vote Obama.



konrakfon said:


> Interstate 5 Northbound
> 
> California State Exit 136B
> 
> From www.westcoastroads.com


----------



## AUchamps

HAWC1506 said:


> ^^The U.S. is only smart enough to design traffic safety, but not educate about/enforce traffic safety. Thinking here is so short-term it's not even funny...That's what happens when you have a nation full of wasteful, conservative idiots who think they're still in the 1950s.
> 
> We can build, but we can't educate, we can't maintain and we can't do anything other than sitting on our behinds and complain. And yet we wonder why our traffic is so bad, why we are behind in transportation and why our quality of life is falling.
> 
> I have a lot of respect for the government who built the Interstates in the 1950s. Forward-thinking was better back then. Now, everything seems so hopeless. Where are the good leaders? I can only hope that someone influential and smart enough will take lead of this country soon. The U.S. has always done a great job bouncing back from disasters like the current economical crisis, so I hope we can take another 'great leap' in a few years.
> 
> But for the current United States, the picture Konrakfon posted says it all.
> 
> Vote Obama.


What's wrong with voting Bob Barr as a protest vote? Maybe because Gov't has proven unwilling to be forward-thinking, we ought to move toward privatization. Practically every motorway in Eastern China is tolled, and we see how much they're able to build.


----------



## mike7743

AUchamps said:


> What's wrong with voting Bob Barr as a protest vote?



that's just an idiotic way of thinking and a waste of a vote. voting is not a privilege it's a right. why not just stay home?


----------



## mike7743

HAWC1506 said:


> ^^The U.S. is only smart enough to design traffic safety, but not educate about/enforce traffic safety. Thinking here is so short-term it's not even funny...That's what happens when you have a nation full of wasteful, conservative idiots who think they're still in the 1950s.
> 
> We can build, but we can't educate, we can't maintain and we can't do anything other than sitting on our behinds and complain. And yet we wonder why our traffic is so bad, why we are behind in transportation and why our quality of life is falling.
> 
> I have a lot of respect for the government who built the Interstates in the 1950s. Forward-thinking was better back then. Now, everything seems so hopeless. Where are the good leaders? I can only hope that someone influential and smart enough will take lead of this country soon. The U.S. has always done a great job bouncing back from disasters like the current economical crisis, so I hope we can take another 'great leap' in a few years.
> 
> But for the current United States, the picture Konrakfon posted says it all.
> 
> Vote Obama.



I concur


I lived in Massachusetts before moving back to California. the quality of roads in Massachusetts is heart breaking. a developed nation with third world level of roads. let's just hope we'll get it together this time.


----------



## hoosier

AUchamps said:


> What's wrong with voting Bob Barr as a protest vote? Maybe because Gov't has proven unwilling to be forward-thinking, we ought to move toward privatization. Practically every motorway in Eastern China is tolled, and we see how much they're able to build.


It would be illegal to toll the interstate highway system, and completely unfeasible. Who would pay for installing toll booths on EVERY SINGLE INTERCHANGE IN THE SYSTEM???? Use the money to fix the damn roads.

And American infrastructure has deteriorated under right-wing conservative, pro-privatization, leadership, that has cut taxes and infrastructure spending. We need left wingers that will invest in America, not in oil wars.

China is building so many roads because they spend 9% of their GDP on infrastructure. America spends less than ONE percent.


----------



## AUchamps

hoosier said:


> It would be illegal to toll the interstate highway system, and completely unfeasible. Who would pay for installing toll booths on EVERY SINGLE INTERCHANGE IN THE SYSTEM???? Use the money to fix the damn roads.
> 
> And American infrastructure has deteriorated under right-wing conservative, pro-privatization, leadership, that has cut taxes and infrastructure spending. We need left wingers that will invest in America, not in oil wars.
> 
> China is building so many roads because they spend 9% of their GDP on infrastructure. America spends less than ONE percent.


Ok, what about a "P3" system? Public-Private-Partnership?

Or we could do like Mitch and all have "Major Moves" projects in our states too.

http://www.in.gov/indot/7039.htm


----------



## hoosier

AUchamps said:


> Ok, what about a "P3" system? Public-Private-Partnership?
> 
> Or we could do like Mitch and all have "Major Moves" projects in our states too.
> 
> http://www.in.gov/indot/7039.htm



Major Moves "leased" an EXISTING toll road to a private consortium. There is nothing stopping states from leasing their own toll roads.

However, such a deal wouldn't work on a non-toll highway. It is illegal and the public would revolt.


----------



## AUchamps

hoosier said:


> Major Moves "leased" an EXISTING toll road to a private consortium. There is nothing stopping states from leasing their own toll roads.
> 
> However, such a deal wouldn't work on a non-toll highway. It is illegal and the public would revolt.


And while it can't be done in every state, I can throw out over a dozen that it would benefit.

-Massachusetts
-New York
-New Hampshire
-New Jersey
-Delaware
-Pennsylvania
-Florida
-Kansas
-Oklahoma
-Illinois(Chicago Skyway is already an example, go city of Chicago and Mayor Daley for making it happen)
-West Virginia
-Maine
-Ohio


----------



## HAWC1506

Personally, I am very much against tolling. I think the U.S. government needs to clean up a bit and streamline funding. The next thing to do would be to raise the gas tax and make gas prices hover at about $5-6 dollars a gallon and diesel at $4.50. What happens right now is that we'll have funding for a project, but attached to the project itself is a whole bunch of other junk that drives costs up. Then, some states including Washington, tax themselves. So a 4 billion dollar project will have a few-hundred million dollars worth of sales tax that will drive the cost even higher. The tax then goes to the general fund for schools/parks/other government stuff. Bottom line, gas tax should be for roads and roads only.

There's no reason to toll. America can't manage traffic as it is, and having toll booths would just overwhelm DOTs who can't even build a straight guardrail. If Germany can build world-class highways without tolls, there is no reason why the world's 'richest' country can't. Americans should get off the 'we-are-so-great' train and start realizing that we're practically the most third-world of modern countries.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Dan1113 said:


> Yeah, in fact the US has one of the worst accident/death rates of the developed world, sadly.


Depends how you measure it. If you count it per x number of inhabitants, yes, it's pretty bad, but if you measure it by the number of miles driven, it's not much worse than Europe.


----------



## Timon91

I've never seen a single car accident in the US actually. I guess it's just luck. Well, I saw a car hitting a deer, but that was in Canada.


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## Dan

It's one thing to build a new road as a toll road, but it's another to convert it to one. Not easy at all!


----------



## Astralis

LtBk said:


> The US has a lot of accidents, you just don't see them or hear much about them(except from traffic reports).


I'm curious if anybody has some US stats about accidents comparable to those in Europe... Maybe Chris?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

Sort the "Road fatalities
per 1 billion
vehicle-km" list


----------



## Timon91

It's a surprise for me that Belgium is doing so bad. USA is quite bad as well.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, the USA isn't that bad at all. The Netherlands is the safest country in the world after Malta on traffic fatalities and the U.S. isn't that far behind. Like I said, it's how you calculate it. Per 100.000 inhabitants gives a higher fatality rate than per billion travelled miles because Americans drive more than Europeans. The US non-freeway record is even better than the Dutch one. 

Belgium has always been worse. It's partially because of the infrastructure (bad maintenance, suicide lanes, cyclists on 120km/h roads etc, but also about the driving habits and education, which is of a far lower standard than Germany for instance.)


----------



## Timon91

^^Yeah, that's true. We Dutch have our death roads (N33, N35, both aren't freeways). In that case it's not surprising that the USA is doing better hno:


----------



## HAWC1506

Astralis said:


> I'm curious if anybody has some US stats about accidents comparable to those in Europe... Maybe Chris?


http://www.autosavant.com/2008/08/28/the-american-plague-of-overtaking-on-the-right/

That article explains some safety issues in the U.S.


----------



## LtBk

ChrisZwolle said:


> No, the USA isn't that bad at all. The Netherlands is the safest country in the world after Malta on traffic fatalities and the U.S. isn't that far behind. Like I said, it's how you calculate it. Per 100.000 inhabitants gives a higher fatality rate than per billion travelled miles because Americans drive more than Europeans. The US non-freeway record is even better than the Dutch one.
> 
> Belgium has always been worse. It's partially because of the infrastructure (bad maintenance, suicide lanes, cyclists on 120km/h roads etc, but also about the driving habits and education, which is of a far lower standard than Germany for instance.)


What makes Belgian drivers bad?


----------



## Timon91

As Chris said, the suicide lane is very dangerous. In the Ardennes drivers think they can still pass that car in front of them before that hill, and thus can't see the car coming from the other side. Boom. Accident. And the drivers aren't that well educated like in Germany.


----------



## HAWC1506

Timon91 said:


> ^^Sorry, it will be a little far and expensive for me :lol:
> Regarding all said above about obtaining your drivers license, there seem to be differences in how difficult it is to get it. Besides NJ, are there any other states where it is very difficult to get? I wonder if people go to the ''easy'' states if they live in a "difficult" state, if you know what I mean.


I am not entirely sure if people do that, but every state has a different law. Some states might even require you to retake the test according to their standards. You cannot drive in Oregon with a Washington license (you can, but I think there is a time limit, which is about a month or so I believe). The thing about the U.S. is that everything is so disjointed and unorganised that there isn't really a standard. Which can work out to be good in some ways, especially when you have a leader and a state who are both willing to stand up and move forward ahead of others. But so far, nothing like that has happened.


----------



## Timon91

^^So if you decided you wanted to move to Portland, you'd have to redo your exam? That's bad. The US really needs a nationwide standard, but with 50 states and thus 50 different opinions, that'll be very hard to get through hno:


----------



## ADCS

Timon91 said:


> ^^So if you decided you wanted to move to Portland, you'd have to redo your exam? That's bad. The US really needs a nationwide standard, but with 50 states and thus 50 different opinions, that'll be very hard to get through hno:


It can also work out to your benefit. For example, Texas has a very limited demerit point system, and generally does not count out-of-state violations toward it. That's nice, because insurance companies generally only look at the state reports to adjust your rates.

National standards would be a hard sell because of the varying different needs of the different states. One needs very different skillsets for driving in New Jersey compared to Wyoming.


----------



## Timon91

And what about Canada? Do they have a national standard? It seems like you also need different skills to drive in Toronto and in Yellowknife, for example.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Canada has a similar licensing system to that of the USA. There is no nation-wide standard driving licence there.


----------



## mgk920

Timon91 said:


> ^^So if you decided you wanted to move to Portland, you'd have to redo your exam? That's bad. The US really needs a nationwide standard, but with 50 states and thus 50 different opinions, that'll be very hard to get through hno:


The USA is a federal republic where the states created the federal government and not the other way around - the states handle most everyday legal stuff like licensing and criminal law, for example (note, the Feds license electronic communications and aircraft pilots). Driving licensing is handled at the state level although, under the USConstitution's 'full faith and credit clause', if you are licensed in one state, it is recognized by all states, ditto if revoked, suspended, etc. Transferring a license from one state to another usually involves little more than making sure that identification is proved (some states are more strict than others on that part).

'Commercial' driving licenses (ie, lorries, coaches, etc) are also done at the state level (using federal standards), but with much greater safeguards on making sure that if someone is revoked in one state, that revocation is recognized in all of the others.

Mike


----------



## Paddington

There's no need for this road, and I say that as an expressway enthusiast.

Road transported long distance cargo cannot and will not be the way of the future.


----------



## HAWC1506

Timon91 said:


> ^^So if you decided you wanted to move to Portland, you'd have to redo your exam? That's bad. The US really needs a nationwide standard, but with 50 states and thus 50 different opinions, that'll be very hard to get through hno:


I sort of wish there was a strict, national standard. No matter which state you are in, you are still in the same country. If you live in New Mexico but will drive in the snow up in Michigan, you'll still need the skill. Every driver in the U.S. should be ready for all conditions and up to standard.


----------



## algonquin

The North American Stupid Highway ranks somewhere between the Ryugyong Hotel and building an elevator to the moon. In other words: idiocy and pure fantasy.

I suppose there is demand for this kind of project under the current US administration though. Reminds me of the serious American idea of building a fence along the entire US/Canada border. Maybe I'm out of touch; idiocy is the new common-sense.


----------



## HAWC1506

Hey I know this isn't a State-Route thread, but this proposal has to be worthy of notice. This is a proposal to replace the Alaskan Way Viaduct for SR 99 through Seattle.

*Chopp unveils ambitious Viaduct plan*
House speaker's proposal includes shops, a park and yes, a highway

By LARRY LANGE
P-I REPORTER

An elevated highway, a park, shops and offices, a pedestrian-friendly place where cars can bypass downtown Seattle two stories above ground.

Speaker of the House Frank Chopp's idea for replacing the Alaskan Way Viaduct, he said Tuesday, is " a way of including everybody's bottom line."

There have been long arguments over whether to replace the viaduct with a tunnel, another elevated highway or remove it altogether and disperse the traffic to other streets and into buses.

Chopp's ambitious idea, not yet given a price tag, would replace the viaduct with a mile-long, four-level structure open to retail space on the first level, offices on the second, highway lanes on the third and a park on top.

The new structure would accommodate more traffic than a "surface-transit" replacement, would provide a new waterfront park with sweeping views and could be partly paid for with rents on the retail and office space.

The idea stirred great interest among about two dozen Manufacturing Industrial Council members, business managers and industrialists who have been skeptical of the idea of removing the viaduct and shifting the traffic to the surface.

"Out of everything I've seen so far, this is the most exciting," said Tukwila plastics manufacturer Clint Cox.

Engineers from the city, state and county are analyzing the eight options to see how each option performs. One of them is Chopp's proposed "waterfront parkway," though it's described among the eight-option list as a "four-lane integrated elevated" highway.

Other possibilities include one other elevated four-lane highway without park or other amenities; two tunnels; three "surface" traffic options; and a partially lidded trench that would distribute traffic above ground to the Battery Street Tunnel.

Chopp, a Seattle Democrat, has worked on the proposal for more than a year but has remained relatively quiet about it until now.

At Tuesday's session with the business officials he displayed drawings showing ground-level businesses with access to the waterfront and elevators taking pedestrians to upper levels and the park. He said the new structure could be built in two steps, from west to east, possibly in a shorter time than other options. He'd leave four lanes of traffic on much of Alaskan Way.

The plan now envisions two bus stops but no ramps to downtown, a change that brought questions. He said amenities such as the park couldn't be built by the state but could be financed with leases revenue and sale of development rights. He could not say how much of the cost might be raised or what effects the construction would have.

Chopp said designers and developers, many in favor of removing the viaduct and redesigning the waterfront, have so far listened "and then they want to keep their mouths shut." Tuesday's attendees said traffic movement was their priority.

"You can paint it pink as far as we're concerned, as long as you can get through on it," said Peter Whitehead, owner of Nelson Trucking.City, county and state staffers will complete analysis of Chopp's option and the other seven next month and report their results to a 30-member committee of citizen "stakeholders" for comment. They are then expected to offer two or three options to Gov. Chris Gregoire, Mayor Greg Nickels and King County Executive Ron Sims by the end of the year.

State legislators were intrigued but had a wait-and-see reaction. Nickels declined to comment and Sims' spokeswoman, Carolyn Duncan, said Sims is "keeping an open mind. In general, Ron has been most supportive of a surface-transit option and I don't believe that has changed. Of course, that's not what Chopp's proposal is."


----------



## hoosier

Yes, this highway is a horrible idea. HSR does not have to be as a part of this new mega highway that will destroy VAST swaths of land.

Upgrade I-35 if necessary. Investing in expanded freight and passenger rail along I-35 will take a lot of traffic off the highway.


----------



## hoosier

It's pretty easy to get a driver's license in Indiana. You go the DMV, take the written exam (50 questions, I can't remember how many you can get wrong before you fail the test). Then you can schedule an appointment to take your driving test. If you pass that, then you get your license!!

Driver's ed is not required to get a license, but it does lower insurance premiums.


----------



## LtBk

No driver's ed? Our driving standards are much worse that I realized.


----------



## Rail Claimore

hoosier said:


> It's pretty easy to get a driver's license in Indiana. You go the DMV, take the written exam (50 questions, I can't remember how many you can get wrong before you fail the test). Then you can schedule an appointment to take your driving test. If you pass that, then you get your license!!
> 
> Driver's ed is not required to get a license, but it does lower insurance premiums.


Driver's ed isn't really a requirement in most, if not all states for people over the age of 18. Those mandatory driver's ed requirements for provisional licenses have been targeting the youngsters.

Alabama is a lot like Indiana... I just took a written test, and a 10 minute road test and had my license. I had driver's ed in high school, but it didn't lower my premiums nor was it a requirement.


----------



## Timon91

My dad got his license in the army, and he didn't pay a single guilder for it. Now I have to pay at least 2000 euros, almost 4500 guilders hno:


----------



## Chicagoago

In all the areas I knew Driver's Ed was a scheduled class in your public schools for 15-16 year olds.

The classes are free, and if you pass the class you don't have to take a drivers test at your local government office to get your license. You just bring in your slip of paper from the school saying you passed.

A license costs $16 to obtain. 

So overall myself and all my friends growing up spent $16 (although I think it was cheaper back then, 10 years ago).


----------



## Chicagoago

mgk920 said:


> The USA is a federal republic where the states created the federal government and not the other way around - the states handle most everyday legal stuff like licensing and criminal law, for example (note, the Feds license electronic communications and aircraft pilots). Driving licensing is handled at the state level although, under the USConstitution's 'full faith and credit clause', if you are licensed in one state, it is recognized by all states, ditto if revoked, suspended, etc. Transferring a license from one state to another usually involves little more than making sure that identification is proved (some states are more strict than others on that part).
> 
> 'Commercial' driving licenses (ie, lorries, coaches, etc) are also done at the state level (using federal standards), but with much greater safeguards on making sure that if someone is revoked in one state, that revocation is recognized in all of the others.
> 
> Mike



Exactly, I wish more people would remember this when they talk about things done strangely here.

This country was formed by many different states with different identities who grouped together and formed The United States of America as a blanket power that would streamline economics, defense and foriegn relations for all those states who joined their union. Strength in numbers. It was much like the European Union really when it was created. The states are in charge of all daily matters and the life and situation of its residents. The Federal Government is there to protect everyone involved, to oversee the economy and to make broad rules to assure that all 50 states function together as a friendly unit. Until WWI and WWII, the federal government was actually extremely small and did not exert much power over the country as a whole. Think back in the 1800's, it took months to figure out who was elected, and people didn't really care about the federal government. Only when information technology and transportation/communication became so fast was the Federal Government able to have solid control over things on a daily basis.

States get in fights all the time over things, but it never gets out of control because the Federal Government is there all the time to make sure that the union holds together and we don't lose that stability.



We all know we're Americans, and we can have that national pride, but in your personal life and the life of your family, your state tends to come before anything else. Growing up I knew I was born and bred in IOWA. I was an Iowan and that was must more important in my life than being part of the United States, which is a hodge podge of so many different areas and people that I have nothing in common with. Your individual life revolves around your state, but the entire population of the 50 states falls under the USA.


----------



## HAWC1506

Chicagoago said:


> In all the areas I knew Driver's Ed was a scheduled class in your public schools for 15-16 year olds.
> 
> The classes are free, and if you pass the class you don't have to take a drivers test at your local government office to get your license. You just bring in your slip of paper from the school saying you passed.
> 
> A license costs $16 to obtain.
> 
> So overall myself and all my friends growing up spent $16 (although I think it was cheaper back then, 10 years ago).


Yeah it all depends on the state. In Washington, Drivers Ed is offered in school and outside of school. If you take drivers ed though, you get a waiver for the written test to get your PERMIT. You still have to take the written test for the license. License is like...30 dollars I think? The drivers ed course was $200 or something.


----------



## Majestic

Timon91 said:


> My dad got his license in the army, and he didn't pay a single guilder for it. Now I have to pay at least 2000 euros, almost 4500 guilders hno:


My dear! Another government's step in limiting the number of motorists?
In Poland it costs (a course and an exam) about 400 euro


----------



## Timon91

^^For that price we get good lessons, so we are really "ready for the road" when we get our license. At least better than in the USA. However, the price is way too much. Young people can hardly afford it themselves anymore. Some of my friends who've just become 18 have their license because their parents paid for it. Some other 18 year old friends of mine don't have their license because they have to pay for it themselves and they can't afford it. I'm not sure whether I'm going to get my license once I get 18, because students get a so called "OV-jaarkaart" with which they can travel with the public transport for free (you can choose whether you want it on weekdays or in weekends). That is also a good and safe way to get around. But if parents pay, I'm fine with it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another great video I found, a tour of LA's freeways:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-405 in Los Angeles, timelapse from a bridge.


----------



## mgk920

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nice video of the I-84 in New York crossing into Pennsylvania (Northwest of New York City).


Interestingly, I-84 just misses 'ticking' the northwest corner of New Jersey by about 100m in the center of the Delaware River.

http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=2&S=12&Z=18&X=656&Y=5722&W=3

Mike


----------



## pwalker

ChrisZwolle said:


> Another great video I found, a tour of LA's freeways:


Wow, totally mesmerizing. The L.A. freeway system is incredible. And that video shows only part of it!


----------



## [email protected]

mgk920 said:


> Interestingly, I-84 just misses 'ticking' the northwest corner of New Jersey by about 100m in the center of the Delaware River.
> 
> http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=2&S=12&Z=18&X=656&Y=5722&W=3
> 
> Mike


Yes and if you take that last exit in NY State, you are instantly in NJ with 4 or 5 gas stations as gas is very much cheaper in NJ than in NY or PA.


----------



## AUchamps

[email protected] said:


> Yes and if you take that last exit in NY State, you are instantly in NJ with 4 or 5 gas stations as gas is very much cheaper in NJ than in NY or PA.


And you can't even legally pump said cheaper gas in NJ too. How nice is that for the traveler?


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

AUchamps said:


> And you can't even legally pump said cheaper gas in NJ too. How nice is that for the traveler?


Can you explain what you mean by that? You can't pump fuel because... ?


----------



## HAWC1506

AUchamps said:


> And you can't even legally pump said cheaper gas in NJ too. How nice is that for the traveler?


What do you mean?

btw has anyone noticed that people in the New York video keep right except to pass? And that L.A. is practically free for all? haha :lol:


----------



## AUchamps

HAWC1506 said:


> What do you mean?
> 
> btw has anyone noticed that people in the New York video keep right except to pass? And that L.A. is practically free for all? haha :lol:


New Jersey is just like Oregon, where it's illegal for consumers to pump gas. All gas stations in those 2 states are full-serve vs. the other 48 states where it's mainly self-serve.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

HAWC1506 said:


> btw has anyone noticed that people in the New York video keep right except to pass? And that L.A. is practically free for all? haha :lol:


Yes, I noticed and commented about it on youtube


----------



## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> I don't know how exact that map is. I can't believe the I-40 in western New Mexico has that much traffic problems in the deserts.


I have driven it (in winter) and I can believe it. A substantial length of it immediately west of Albuquerque is quite congested. It also does not pass through completely flat deserts--instead it skirts arid mountain ranges to the south and there are some lengths with curves which feel moderately sharp at 75 MPH.


----------



## ChrisZwolle




----------



## Verso

^ Is this... black?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I'm not sure, it might be extremely dark blue too. 

According to southeastroads it seems to be some kind of retroreflective signage.


----------



## Verso

Why blue? You mean extremely dark green? It looks more like black than green though, at least on photos.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

^^ It must be dark green. Blue guide signs are used either within airport areas or on East coast parkways (maybe?). Typical interstates never use dark blue colour for guide signs.


----------



## Billpa

Looks like a mistake to me. Some highway in Southern Cal had some signs that were the wrong color, as I recall, because the contractor got something wrong.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ They're all over Mobile along the I-65. A bit too much to be a mistake.


----------



## Billpa

Well, in the background of one of the shots you can see the proper color. I'm not sure what they were attempting with those really dark ones unless they're testing something. If anything, newer signs around me have been a "brighter" green than darker.


----------



## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> I'm not sure, it might be extremely dark blue too.
> 
> According to southeastroads it seems to be some kind of retroreflective signage.


Not quite. There are retroreflective green signs in the background (using, at a guess, the usual high-intensity green background sheeting applied either to flat aluminum panels or aluminum extrusions which are then bolted or riveted together to make the finished sign). But the signs with the apparently dark background appear to have substrates which consist of steel gratings (the AARoads people refer to these as "slotted" signs because what you see are the slots, end-on). They photograph as black because they are nonreflective, but I think it is entirely possible they have been painted or otherwise covered with a green coating which meets the FHWA color specification. Since most of the "slotted" signs seem to be older in terms of layout and accompanying retroreflective elements compared to nearby retroreflective sheeting signs, I think they were part of an experiment which was abandoned in favor of retroreflective sheeting.

As to the nature of the experiment, I theorize it was an attempt to fabricate sign panels which are lighter because of the grate voids but tougher and more resistant to impact damage because the grate vanes are parallel to the direction of traffic and so less likely to deform plastically under impact from stones, bullets, etc.


----------



## Tom 958

I could be completely wrong about this, but...

I think the slotted signs are used to combat blinding glare from large reflective surfaces. The use of slotted versus standard signs seems random, but I think it has to do with how severe the problem is at a given location, which is apparently harder to predict than one would think. IOW, I think this type of signage was retrofitted in locations where glare was a big problem, and perhaps used preemptively where it may not have been strictly necessary. Better safe than sorry.

Alabama is the only place I remember seeing this type of sign, though the problem obviously exists literally everywhere the sun shines. 

The signs are actually painted a dark, nonreflective green, though it might as well be black-- IOW, it's not just an illusion of photography. The risk of motorist confusion due to incorrect sign color is trivial compared to the risk of motorists being unable to see the road or the vehicles on it due to glare.


----------



## HAWC1506

Hmmm I have to say, I do like the colours. I prefer a lighter shade of blue, but it's better than the boring green. There's more contrast, and from the pictures, it looks easier to see.


----------



## HAWC1506

Does anyone have pictures of Washington highways that they would be willing to let me use for an article on Washington infrastructure?


----------



## hkskyline

*Big Dig easing traffic bottlenecks in city; but commuters still sitting in traffic longer *
16 November 2008

BOSTON (AP) - The Big Dig has been easing Boston's once-notorious bottlenecks, but many commuters are still sitting in traffic longer.

A Boston Globe analysis of state highway data shows that while driving through Boston has improved from the days of the old elevated Central Artery, in many cases the traffic congestion has simply been pushed out of the city.

The worst traffic tie-up is along I-93 northbound during the evening commute.

In 1994, before the Big Dig tunnels were dug, it took an average 12 minutes at peak evening rush hour to go the 11 miles from the Zakim Bridge to Route 128 in Woburn.

Now is takes twice as long, about 25 minutes.

Traffic is also about three minutes slower during the evening commute on the Southeast Expressway.


----------



## Morsue

What would've happened if there hadn't been a Big Dig? Would it take an hour to make the commute?


----------



## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


> To compare; the Channel Tunnel between England and France had a 80% cost overrun, and is by far not profitable.


*its not fair to expext "enterprise profit" from infrastructure projects...*

- tolls distracts users so it is not fully exploited...

- a private enterprise has to pay tax which is expense not an income

- in case of a goverment (budget) financed project there are many income (what a private ent. couldt realise) and there are less expenses:

- budget has to pay no tax on tolls... (b/c there are no toll)
- budget has to pay no enterprise tax... (b/c it is not a forprofit enterprise it is a government investment...)
- for budget the extra taxes from the infrastructre generated economy and traffic increase are INCOME (and NOT income for a private enterprise)

of course this doesnt mean that EVERY huge megalomanic infrastructure project is profitable for tax payers, it only means that the budget has large vantage on private forprofit enterprises...


----------



## Timon91

It really did help. It's a big improvement IMO. When traffic increases a little, the number of jams can increase a lot. See what happened on some motorways in the Netherlands where the traffic just increased a little over the last few years, but jams that have never been there before is daily business now.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

hkskyline said:


> In 1994, before the Big Dig tunnels were dug, it took an average 12 minutes at peak evening rush hour to go the 11 miles from the Zakim Bridge to Route 128 in Woburn.
> 
> Now is takes twice as long, about 25 minutes.


12 minutes for 11 miles (18km) is a luxury. 25 minutes is still not bad, my previous commute took 30 minutes for 6 miles.


----------



## Timon91

I found a cool pic of the Leonard P. Zakim Bunker Hill Memorial Bridge on my computer, taken from Bunker Hill this summer by me 










-edit- I found another one:


----------



## SeanT

H123Laci said:


> *its not fair to expext "enterprise profit" from infrastructure projects...*
> 
> - tolls distracts users so it is not fully exploited...
> 
> - a private enterprise has to pay tax which is expense not an income
> 
> - in case of a goverment (budget) financed project there are many income (what a private ent. couldt realise) and there are less expenses:
> 
> - budget has to pay no tax on tolls... (b/c there are no toll)
> - budget has to pay no enterprise tax... (b/c it is not a forprofit enterprise it is a government investment...)
> - for budget the extra taxes from the infrastructre generated economy and traffic increase are INCOME (and NOT income for a private enterprise)
> 
> of course this doesnt mean that EVERY huge megalomanic infrastructure project is profitable for tax payers, it only means that the budget has large vantage on private forprofit enterprises...


We have the same issue in Denmark about the bridge between east Germany and east Denmark. Is it profitable or just a lot of money from the taxpayers which is going to desapear in the baltic sea. like 50 billion DKK (okay the half is from Germany):banana:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-395 in Baltimore, Maryland.*

The I-395 is a short expressway in the city of Baltimore, connecting downtown to the I-95.

Google Earth map:






























































Hazmat = Hazardous Materials










Picture credits to: AAroads


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-83 Baltimore, Maryland*

The I-83 enters Baltimore from the north, but is just a few miles short from reaching I-95, so it stops near downtown.



























































































Picture credit to: AAroads


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## Billpa

The northern end of I-83 a few miles from my house . It ends at Interstate 81.


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## Tom 958

A good place for a one-arrow-per-lane diagrammatic. Georgia would have simply put a white downward arrow toward each lane and not said anything about the right lane splitting.


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## HAWC1506

Nvm, question has been answered already. I was asking about Hazmats, but i was blind not to notice the description...


----------



## J N Winkler

Tom 958 said:


> A good place for a one-arrow-per-lane diagrammatic. Georgia would have simply put a white downward arrow toward each lane and not said anything about the right lane splitting.


Yup. The traditional way of handling a similar situation:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Wichita, Kansas


----------



## J N Winkler

^^ Yup, I grew up there . . .


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## LtBk

I-83 is the only freeway in MD I been on where most drivers follow the "slower traffic kept right" rule.


----------



## G5man

hkskyline said:


> The worst traffic tie-up is along I-93 northbound during the evening commute.
> 
> In 1994, before the Big Dig tunnels were dug, it took an average 12 minutes at peak evening rush hour to go the 11 miles from the Zakim Bridge to Route 128 in Woburn.
> 
> Now is takes twice as long, about 25 minutes.
> 
> Traffic is also about three minutes slower during the evening commute on the Southeast Expressway.


If they get rid of the bottle neck at one part, it is going to spread up to other areas. That just happens to be the effect since people are no longer stuck going through downtown, they are now stuck outside of downtown.


----------



## HAWC1506

LtBk said:


> I-83 is the only freeway in MD I been on where most drivers follow the "slower traffic kept right" rule.


It's really funny how it changes from highway to highway isn't it? In Seattle, virtually no one follows it on I-5. Nobody follows it on I-405. People on I-90 follow it on some days, while people in the reversible HOV lanes follow it very well. Drivers on SR520 also follow it quite well. :nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

G5man said:


> If they get rid of the bottle neck at one part, it is going to spread up to other areas. That just happens to be the effect since people are no longer stuck going through downtown, they are now stuck outside of downtown.


True. You really need an integrated plan to solve all traffic jams. Widening a few spots here and there won't completely solve things.


----------



## H123Laci

^^ yeah.
the stupid greenies argue with this: 
youve built this road and spent huge amount of taxpayers money and solved nothing.
So it has no sense to build new roads.... 
:bash:


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

^^ People follow it on I-90 in rural areas. In Seattle metro area it's mostly disregarded.


----------



## Timon91

Since there is not so much traffic in rural areas, I'm not surprised.


----------



## ImBoredNow

Doesn't I-83 have an exit to JHU (Hopkins)


----------



## HAWC1506

My article about U.S. highways is up: http://www.autosavant.com/2008/12/01/the-little-things-that-are-holding-us-back/


----------



## Billpa

Quite a good article. I think you hit the nail on the head when you answered the question 'why are US roads not among the best in the world?';

_it’s because the general public doesn’t have the appreciation for perfection_

That's very true. Indeed, most Americans I think still believe we lead the world when it comes to highway standards. I hope we will again, but we don't now do we? Far from it.


----------



## HAWC1506

Billpa said:


> Quite a good article. I think you hit the nail on the head when you answered the question 'why are US roads not among the best in the world?';
> 
> _it’s because the general public doesn’t have the appreciation for perfection_
> 
> That's very true. Indeed, most Americans I think still believe we lead the world when it comes to highway standards. I hope we will again, but we don't now do we? Far from it.


Thank you! Unfortunately, that mindset has become part of modern American culture. The most important thing for the public now is to have something that works. It doesn't have to be high quality, it just has to work. It shows up in the design of our cars, roads, appliances, etc. which are almost always never leaders (although the car industry is improving). The U.S. used to be good at building for the future, but now the general public has become too shortsighted and blind.


----------



## Billpa

I must say I've heard the word "infrastructure" dozens of times since Obama won the election a month ago- so I have some hope that maybe more and more Americans are finally saying 'the roads are awful, let's fix them'. I wouldn't expect to see German quality motorways pop up anytime soon but I would LOVE to take a drive some weekend for a few hours and not hit a stretch of bumpy highways or roads that make the ride less than fun.


----------



## HAWC1506

Billpa said:


> I must say I've heard the word "infrastructure" dozens of times since Obama won the election a month ago- so I have some hope that maybe more and more Americans are finally saying 'the roads are awful, let's fix them'. I wouldn't expect to see German quality motorways pop up anytime soon but I would LOVE to take a drive some weekend for a few hours and not hit a stretch of bumpy highways or roads that make the ride less than fun.


I have very high hopes too. But Obama is still a politician, no matter how many things he plans to address. Most likely, he will not demand that the U.S. bring quality levels up to competition. America is in such a desperate state right now we just need to get things fixed before we try to 'self-actualise.' He's a smart guy though and with his popularity in Germany, hopefully he will be able to gain some inspiration.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interesting article, Jason!



> In addition, I did not notice this while traveling, but after observing pictures, you can see that as the road curves, the roadbed tilts towards the direction of the turn for better traction, very much like what you see on German Autobahns and NASCAR tracks (although not quite as prominent).


 I can only hope cross slopes are standard within highway designs! You can't make a tight curve without cross slope, otherwise you would've been pushed out of your lane by G-forces. The cross slope is usually 1,5 - 2% or 2,5% in wet areas. Yes, it's also build because of drainage. 



> None of the overpasses, unfortunately, carries a smooth transition.


Due to dilatation joints, the transistion can never be 100% smooth, since temperature difference causes the bridge to expand a little. Otherwise the bridge would probably collapse.

A problem with repaving is that they usually do not repave bridge sections, as this is way more expensive than adding a general new layer of pavement. This is not only an issue in the United States, you'll see it in Europe too.



> Corner Cutting


Should not necessarily be a problem, but asphalt needs to be repaved every 12 years, moreoften with higher volumes. When potholes appear, you'd either did something wrong in the beginning, or are too late with repaving. (also depends on weather and tire conditions).


----------



## gannman1975

ImBoredNow said:


> Doesn't I-83 have an exit to JHU (Hopkins)


To get to JHU, your best bet is to get off at 28th Street and then hang a left onto Charles St.
To get to the Hospital (Johns Hopkins Hosp), hang a left on Fayette St and then hang a left on Broadway.


----------



## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> I can only hope cross slopes are standard within highway designs! You can't make a tight curve without cross slope, otherwise you would've been pushed out of your lane by G-forces. The cross slope is usually 1,5 - 2% or 2,5% in wet areas. Yes, it's also build because of drainage.


Crossfall is much as you describe, but the details vary considerably from state to state. One state may have a straight 2.5% crossfall from left to right on one carriageway of a dual two-lane freeway, while another may have a 2% crossfall from the center across the traveled way, increasing to 4% on the shoulders. Most states have standard plans explaining how to develop crossfall on a shoulder when it has to be opposite in sense to superelevation (e.g. when the road curves left but water has to drain off the shoulder to the right).

The AASHTO Green Book has standards for superelevation but I wouldn't describe them as consistent. The basic purpose of superelevation is to supplement side friction demand so that the car can move at a higher speed through a circular path than would otherwise be possible. There are several competing theories of how to distribute superelevation. The one which has traditionally been used in Britain and other western European countries is that superelevation should be a constant fraction of the total centripetal acceleration, regardless of speed. The US uses a rather eccentric theory which allows it to vary with speed--I think provision of superelevation is less generous at higher speeds.

The US also allows designers to choose the maximum superelevation for a length of road according to climate factors, such as the presence of ice during part of the year. Depending on the choice of maximum superelevation (values range from 4% to 8%), a curve of the same radius at the same design speed can have differing amounts of superelevation applied to it.



> Due to dilatation joints, the transition can never be 100% smooth, since temperature difference causes the bridge to expand a little. Otherwise the bridge would probably collapse.


This is true, but the problem of settlement at bridge abutments is worse in the US and my impression is that approach slab replacements are more frequent in US states than in western European countries with similar climate. It has been observed that US standards for subgrade compaction are looser than those used in western Europe. I don't know if this accounts for the rough ride at bridge abutments, but I suspect it does.

One common trick for dealing with local road crossings, which is frequently used in Europe but is rarely seen in the US, is to put the local road in a culvert. This eliminates the whole problem of expansion joints.

Are integral abutments used extensively in Europe?


----------



## HAWC1506

ChrisZwolle said:


> Due to dilatation joints, the transistion can never be 100% smooth, since temperature difference causes the bridge to expand a little. Otherwise the bridge would probably collapse.
> 
> A problem with repaving is that they usually do not repave bridge sections, as this is way more expensive than adding a general new layer of pavement. This is not only an issue in the United States, you'll see it in Europe too.


Thanks! The overpasses were repaved. The eastbound direction has very smooth transitions. One of the overpasses doesn't even have the joints exposed. The westbound direction though is relatively poorly done. It seems like U.S. highways can be built right, it's just that they don't always build it right haha


----------



## USHighway101

I-40 in western New Mexico passes through Gallup, which actually has something of a rush hour, due to the fact that Gallup has basically developed along the freeway, and therefore, the residents utilize I-40 as sort of their main street. It's over its design capacity during the afternoon rush, but I'm not sure I would ever consider it to be congested.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

http://www.nmshtd.state.nm.us/photo...affic Flow Maps/City/Traff2004City_Gallup.pdf

22.500 AADT on the I-40 in Gallup. That's an extremely quiet Interstate.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

According to Caltrans traffic counts, the busiest freeway in the United States has become a little busier.

We're talking about the I-405 near Long Beach in California. 

1992: AADT: 325,000
2006: AADT: 390,000
2007: AADT: 397,000


----------



## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> http://www.nmshtd.state.nm.us/photo...affic Flow Maps/City/Traff2004City_Gallup.pdf
> 
> 22.500 AADT on the I-40 in Gallup. That's an extremely quiet Interstate.


I checked the state traffic flow map and it appears AADTs on I-40 are in the 20,000-30,000 range pretty much all the way from the Arizona state line to the western city limits of Albuquerque. I remember much heavier traffic from when I drove it in the winter of 2004-05, but that could very well have been holiday traffic.


----------



## Billpa

From phillyskyline.com ...
The New Jersey Turnpike in Southern NJ...










The NJ Turnpike and I-295 come VERY close to one another for a short time 










The Turnpike is the motorway with the much longer dash lines between lanes.


----------



## Verso

Do you guys mean mass trans_port_?


----------



## Billpa

Until websites like this one I'd always assumed California freeways were in great condition because, after all, that was the home base of the "great American car culture" we always heard so much about. They famously (in southern Cal) turned their backs on proper mass transit, so the highways were key to the region's economy and therefore would be wonderful examples of road construction. Boy, was I wrong!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They need to double the gas tax for improving mass transit and improving freeways. And now is the time to do that.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Highest traffic volume per road in California, 2007:

*Los Angeles, California*

I-405 Exit 22 397,000
I-5 Exit 103 350,000
SR-60 Exit 26 348,000
I-110 Exit 18 335,000
US 101 Exit 20 325,000
I-10 Exit 12 323,000
SR-91 Exit 34 318,000
I-605 Exit 6 311,000
I-210 Exit 28 303,000
SR-57 Exit 16 293,000
SR-55 Exit 9 265,000
SR-134 Exit 8 249,000
SR-118 Exit 41 241,000
I-105 Exit 7 239,000
I-710 Exit 13 238,000
SR-22 Exit 14 226,000
I-15 Exit 108 225,000
SR-170 Exit 7 185,000
I-215 Exit 40 184,000
SR-2 Exit 14 156,000

*Sacramento, California*

US 50 Exit 6 253,000
I-80 Exit 96 232,000
SR-99 Exit 298 221,000
I-5 Exit 518 197,000

*San Diego, California*

I-15 Exit 13 302,000
I-8 Exit 14 252,000
I-5 Exit 36 244,000
I-805 Exit 9 242,000
SR-163 Exit 6 178,000
SR-94 Exit 5 175,000

*San Francisco / San Jose / Oakland, California*

I-80 Exit 9 294,000
I-680 Exit 48 266,000
I-880 Exit 29 264,000
I-280 Exit 4 255,000
US 101 Exit 42 254,000
I-580 Exit 44A 219,000


----------



## LtBk

ChrisZwolle said:


> They need to double the gas tax for improving mass transit and improving freeways. And now is the time to do that.


California recently passed Referendum 1A, which calls for a half a cent sales tax raise(I think) to raise a $40 billion+ bond to improve LA's transit, including building several rail lines and upgrading the freeways. BTW, Caltran should upgrade the I-405 into 4X5 collector/express freeway.


----------



## ADCS

Verso said:


> Do you guys mean mass trans_port_?


The NAE word is "transportation", because we didn't ever send prisoners to Australia

Transit means public transportation within a metropolitan area in NAE. Comes from the Latin trans- meaning across and ire meaning to go.

Oh, and California signage is ugly as sin. Kinda like their freeways.


----------



## Guest

hoosier said:


> ^^Redundant highway.


Actually, the Turnpike is quite different from 295. They rarely share an exit, with I-276 (PA Turnpike Ext.) passing over 295, and the Turnpike doesn't have an interchange with the Atlantic City Exp. or I-76. Also, 295 doesn't go any further north than Trenton, making it very inconvenient for those in NNJ. (Plus, the Turnpike is tolled, and 295 is not.)



mgk920 said:


> Also - not an interstate at that point. In fact, south of the PATurnpike connenction (soon to be I-95), the New Jersey Turnpike has no route number at all (even though all logic says that the NJTP's entire length _should be_ I-95).
> 
> :lol:
> 
> Mike


The 95 gap is a humongous one, and is in the process of being filled. But, believe it or not, not by the PA Pike Ext, but rather somewhere in the middle of the highway near Princeton does the Turnpike lose its 95 designation. Although logic dictates that 95 should be the designation all along the Turnpike's length, this would cause massive problems in Philadelphia. Tons of signs would have to be changed, and the 1.5 million in Philly would not like to get used to a new highway running through their city. What matters is that the gap is being filled, and that there is a 276-95 interchange, not really what the designation is.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Late 1970's, they experimented with metric signs in the Syracuse, NY area:


----------



## Timon91

Are there still plans to get America metric?


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Timon91 said:


> Are there still plans to get America metric?


Nobody knows... The peaks of metrication attempts always fall on democratic leadership in Congress and White House, so hopefully, Obama will resume this noble yet unappreciated quest. The problem is that the USA is very isolated in its geographical setting, and its nearest neighbours (Canada and Mexico) are not influential enough in this respect. Plus, the general US population (i.e. Jesusland) is ridiculously conservative. Heck, some Americans do not even believe there is a world beyond America (and maybe Middle East cause it's on the news 24/7) :lol:


----------



## AUchamps

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Nobody knows... The peaks of metrication attempts always fall on democratic leadership in Congress and White House, so hopefully, Obama will resume this noble yet unappreciated quest. The problem is that the USA is very isolated in its geographical setting, and its nearest neighbours (Canada and Mexico) are not influential enough in this respect. Plus, the general US population (i.e. Jesusland) is ridiculously conservative. Heck, some Americans do not even believe there is a world beyond America (and maybe Middle East cause it's on the news 24/7) :lol:


There's nothing wrong with being Conservative, just like there's nothing wrong with being Liberal.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Not to start a political discussion, but I can give you some reasons why it is not OK to be a conservative  Would your Founding Fathers start the revolution if they were not progressive (read: liberal) enough? Would Mr. Lincoln start the Civil War against slavery (and some other things) were he not liberal? Would black Americans have equal rights today if it was not for the liberal Supreme Court of the 1960s to act against the popular opinion? How many unfortunate people could have been treated if the US government was liberal enough to allow and fund stem cell research programme instead of clinging to their religion and backwardness? Yeah, there is nothing wrong with being a conservative as long as you don't mind to be stuck in development. Think about it


----------



## FM 2258

Timon91 said:


> Are there still plans to get America metric?


Why do people want the United States to go metric? I'm very happy using miles on the highways. If someone says a city is 300km away I truly have no concept of how far that is except that it's less than 300 miles. If all highways in the United States were translated into KM I think people will be converting in their heads back to miles.


----------



## Timon91

^^That's what I'm wondering about. Some people I know in Canada are still talking about miles and gallons, but the younger generation generally adopts the metric system very well.


----------



## Billpa

One of the new stretches of Interstate 99 in the State College, Pennsylvania area...


----------



## AUchamps

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Not to start a political discussion, but I can give you some reasons why it is not OK to be a conservative  Would your Founding Fathers start the revolution if they were not progressive (read: liberal) enough? Would Mr. Lincoln start the Civil War against slavery (and some other things) were he not liberal? Would black Americans have equal rights today if it was not for the liberal Supreme Court of the 1960s to act against the popular opinion? How many unfortunate people could have been treated if the US government was liberal enough to allow and fund stem cell research programme instead of clinging to their religion and backwardness? Yeah, there is nothing wrong with being a conservative as long as you don't mind to be stuck in development. Think about it


Mr. Lincoln is considered to be the father of the Republican Party and a man that embodies conservative values(which in turn gives me a sense of optimism that our president-elect will end up leaning more toward the right). As for the social values, I'm not gonna dive into it too deep but I will say this. I think it stands in contrast to so-called acceptance from those of the otherside to consider "clinging" to faith as being backwards. If you choose to be very spiritual, then you should be just as accepting and respectful as you are toward all others.

President Eisenhower was a Republican btw, and he's the father of the American Interstate System.


----------



## Timon91

That pavement doesn't look new, am I right?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Concrete immediatly looks old compared to the very aesthetic asphalt pavement.


----------



## Timon91

^^This doesn't look smooth, it should when new. The A4 in Poland looks way better, and I'm talking about the existing part near e.g. Opole. That's a few years old now and IMO it looks better than this.


----------



## sotonsi

I-99 gets to 4 lanes? Mental!

US220 one of the most popular routes for interstate-ification in this decade, given I-73 and I-74 are partially upgrades of it in NC and I-99 in PA is upgrades US220.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think I-99 only has 4 lanes between two exits, or at the interchange alone.


----------



## sotonsi

OK - I knew it wouldn't be the whole way. Looking at the photo, it looks like that point there is only going to be two lanes, though the construction doesn't clear it. Still, even between two junctions, that's mental given the traffic levels. For a diverge, I could image 3 lanes splitting into 2 and 2, but 4 really is over doing it.


----------



## geogregor

Timon91 said:


> ^^This doesn't look smooth, it should when new. The A4 in Poland looks way better, and I'm talking about the existing part near e.g. Opole. That's a few years old now and IMO it looks better than this.


A4 in Poland from Wroclaw east (including parts around Opole) is made of asphalt not concrete.


----------



## mgk920

Timon91 said:


> That pavement doesn't look new, am I right?


Think:

"winter"
"snow"
"salt"
"etc"

Stuff like that will add some visual texture to the surface until it all washes away with springtime rains. The visual effect is much greater with fresh asphalt pavement.

Mike


----------



## HAWC1506

AUchamps said:


> Mr. Lincoln is considered to be the father of the Republican Party and a man that embodies conservative values(which in turn gives me a sense of optimism that our president-elect will end up leaning more toward the right). As for the social values, I'm not gonna dive into it too deep but I will say this. I think it stands in contrast to so-called acceptance from those of the otherside to consider "clinging" to faith as being backwards. If you choose to be very spiritual, then you should be just as accepting and respectful as you are toward all others.
> 
> President Eisenhower was a Republican btw, and he's the father of the American Interstate System.


Those were the old republican days where they accepted change and were NOT as conservative as they are now. Republicans are more right-winged than ever and the Democrats are more left-winged than ever. I support the Democrats in practically every respect.

And btw this is from the BBC:
-----
*Obama vows rebuilt infrastructure*

US President-elect Barack Obama has promised to invest in infrastructure on a scale not seen since the 1950s, when the US highway system was established.

He used his weekly address to outline that the spending would be part of his plan to create at least 2.5m new jobs in the ailing US economy.

He also spoke of the need for expanded access to high-speed internet and the modernisation of school buildings.

Unemployment rose by more than 500,000 during November, figures have shown.

That was the biggest monthly rise in job cuts since 1974, and it drove up the jobless rate to a 15-year high of 6.7%, up from 6.5% in October.

The figures came less than a week after the National Bureau for Economic Research said the US economy had been in recession since late 2007.

Mr Obama, who takes office on 20 January, has previously said that his incoming team will be tasked with generating 2.5m new jobs by 2011.

Broadband drive

On Saturday, speaking in his weekly address, Mr Obama outlined how most of that employment might be created.

"We will create millions of jobs by making the single largest new investment in our national infrastructure since the creation of the federal highway system in the 1950s," he said.

"We'll invest your precious tax dollars in new and smarter ways, and we'll set a simple rule - use it or lose it. If a state doesn't act quickly to invest in roads and bridges in their communities, they'll lose the money."

The president-elect said that broadband internet connections in the US should be available to schoolchildren and hospitals.

"In the country that invented the internet, every child should have the chance to get online and... that's how we'll strengthen America's competitiveness in the world," he said.

School buildings, he continued, would be modernised and upgraded to make them energy-efficient.

The new administration, he added, would launch a massive effort to make public buildings more energy-efficient by replacing old heating systems and installing efficient light bulbs.

"Our government now pays the highest energy bill in the world - we need to change that," he said.


----------



## Xusein

Hopefully more money could be put in revitalizing the many ramps and bridges in the country that are aging rapidly. Out of all the countless needs that the US needs to do to update the infrastructure, the conditions of our bridges have to be the most dear. I swear, a lot of the bridges that I've driven in the past look scary if you see how they look from close up!


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Timon91 said:


> ^^That's what I'm wondering about. Some people I know in Canada are still talking about miles and gallons, but the younger generation generally adopts the metric system very well.


This is very strange because AFAIK they converted the distances to kms about 30 years ago. Those who were just 18 at that time are about 50 now, and I don't see how they can still convert to miles given they never driven with miles in Canada.



FM 2258 said:


> Why do people want the United States to go metric? I'm very happy using miles on the highways. If someone says a city is 300km away I truly have no concept of how far that is except that it's less than 300 miles. If all highways in the United States were translated into KM I think people will be converting in their heads back to miles.


Of course, it will be hard at first. Very few long term benefits are convenient in a short term. Canadians were in this position 30 years ago, and now they only think in kilometres because that is what they are exposed to (unless they go shopping south of the border  )


----------



## HAWC1506

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> This is very strange because AFAIK they converted the distances to kms about 30 years ago. Those who were just 18 at that time are about 50 now, and I don't see how they can still convert to miles given they never driven with miles in Canada.
> 
> 
> Of course, it will be hard at first. Very few long term benefits are convenient in a short term. Canadians were in this position 30 years ago, and now they only think in kilometres because that is what they are exposed to (unless they go shopping south of the border  )


We could adopt the British way of measuring speed in miles per hour and everything else in metric.

Btw here's another, more detailed article on Obama's plan

*By Associated Press and KOMO Staff*

CHICAGO - President-elect Barack Obama said Saturday he wants to revive the economy through a job-creating public works plan on a scale unseen since the building program of the interstate highway system in the 1950s.

He offered no price estimate for the grand plan, how the money might be divided or the effect on the country's financial health at a time of burgeoning deficits.

According to some estimates, the plan ultimately could employ millions of people and cost up to $500 billion.

The ideas were outlined in the weekly radio address the day after the government reported that employers cut 533,000 jobs in November, the most in 34 years. They are part of a vision for a massive economy recovery plan Obama wants Congress to pass and have waiting on his desk when he takes office Jan. 20.

The plan was immediately endorsed by Gov. Chris Gregoire.

"I am very encouraged that President-elect Obama has initiated the first steps of an economic recovery package that would provide the states, including Washington, with substantial funds to pay for ready-to-go construction projects from roads and bridges to schools," Gregoire said.

The president-elect's address never once used the word "spend," relying instead on "invest" or "investments," and pledging wise stewardship of taxpayer money in upgrading roads and schools, and making public buildings more energy-efficient.

"We won't just throw money at the problem," Obama said. "We'll measure progress by the reforms we make and the results we achieve - by the jobs we create, by the energy we save, by whether America is more competitive in the world."

Obama said his plan would employ millions of people by "making the single largest new investment in our national infrastructure since the creation of the federal highway system in the 1950s." He said state officials would lose the federal dollars if they did not quickly use the money to repair highways and bridges.

According to the Federal Highway Administration, a 1991 final estimate of the cost of the interstate system put it at $128.9 billion, with a federal share of $114.3 billion. The estimate covered only the mileage (42,795 miles) built under the interstate construction program. Construction of the system began in 1956 under President Dwight Eisenhower.

More than 5,000 highway projects are ready to go today, state transportation officials say, if Congress will pony up $64.3 billion as part of an economic aid plan. The American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials, which compiled the list, said the projects would provide jobs and help reduce a backlog of crumbling roads and bridges.

A bipartisan group of governors recently met with Obama to press for some $136 billion in infrastructure projects in addition to money for health care costs.

In addition to Gregoire, several other governors welcomed Obama's economic plan.

Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine said the state had more than a billion dollars in "ready-to-go" projects that have been planned for and can be under contract within 180 days. "His plan will put people to work and give the economy a critically important boost," Kaine said in a written statement.

In a joint statement, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell and California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said it would help the U.S. stay ahead of other countries. "To stay competitive globally, the time to repair and modernize our nation's infrastructure is now," they said.

In the address, Obama also said he wants to install energy-saving light bulbs and replace old heating systems in federal buildings to cut costs and create jobs.

School buildings would get an upgrade, too. "Because to help our children compete in a 21st century economy, we need to send them to 21st century schools," Obama said.

As a part of the package, Obama said he wants to expand broadband Internet access in communities. "Here, in the country that invented the Internet, every child should have the chance to get online," he said.

Hospitals also should be connected to each through the Internet. He said he wanted to ensure the facilities were using the latest technology and electronic medical records.

Obama planned to announce more details of the economic recovery plan in the coming weeks.


----------



## Timon91

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> This is very strange because AFAIK they converted the distances to kms about 30 years ago. Those who were just 18 at that time are about 50 now, and I don't see how they can still convert to miles given they never driven with miles in Canada.


The people I'm talking about are about 65 years old now. And they live in Grand Forks, of all places. But that generation will be gone in a few decades, and most people will be able to use the metric system properly


----------



## HAWC1506

Timon91 said:


> The people I'm talking about are about 65 years old now. And they live in Grand Forks, of all places. But that generation will be gone in a few decades, and most people will be able to use the metric system properly


It's definitely easier said than done. Personnaly, I have no trouble using either system, even though I live in the U.S. Our science classes use metric system (always). I also have been forcing myself to use the metric system.

Other people though are still having a lot of trouble. A lot of people in my classes still have trouble visualising the metric system. But yes you're right, they're learning and will be much more comfortable than older generations. Btw, I believe Obama has a plan to convert the U.S. to the metric system.


----------



## Timon91

HAWC1506 said:


> Btw, I believe Obama has a plan to convert the U.S. to the metric system.


That would be nice. It's good he kept it silent, because it might have worked against him. Hopefully he'll do it


----------



## H123Laci

^^ it wont be an easy job... :nuts: :nuts: :nuts:

the problem is that we store in our brain many-many datas of prices, distances, weights, volumes, etc... which works as a coordinate system which we can use to imagine how large (or tiny) a quantity is...

when we change a unit we have to memorize new datas to create the coordinate system of the new unit...

the similar thing happens with currency change (e.g. national currency -> euro) but that is only one unit.

changing simultaneously many units makes it more difficult...


----------



## Billpa

HAWC1506, Maybe Obama read your article!  I can hardly believe we will have a president who actually cares about this stuff. _And _ a VP who rode Amtrak every single day between DC and Delaware. It'll be a nice change to a have leaders who don't think we should starve Amtrak of funding and then point to it and say 'see, it doesn't work' (well, DUH, it doesn't have any bloody money! :bash
We might finally be turning a corner in this country after so many years of allowing our infrastructure to crumble.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Detroit Michigan Freeway tour:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A drive on I-85 in the Greenville/Spartanburg, SC area


----------



## J N Winkler

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Nobody knows... The peaks of metrication attempts always fall on democratic leadership in Congress and White House, so hopefully, Obama will resume this noble yet unappreciated quest. The problem is that the USA is very isolated in its geographical setting, and its nearest neighbours (Canada and Mexico) are not influential enough in this respect. Plus, the general US population (i.e. Jesusland) is ridiculously conservative. Heck, some Americans do not even believe there is a world beyond America (and maybe Middle East cause it's on the news 24/7) :lol:


"Jesusland" is a minority of the US population--the main reason it has been electorally successful, until 2006, is mobilization.

I would not classify myself as a conservative (even in European terms, much less American), but I do not support wholesale conversion to the metric system. The US already uses the metric system in situations where it is economically advantageous to do so, but highway construction and signing is not one of them.

Beginning in the mid-1990's, there was a centrally led effort to encourage states to convert to the metric system for producing plans for highway construction. The main advantage of metric conversion in this context was to allow bridge load resistance calculations to be checked for dimensional accuracy, which is possible in metric units but not in US customary units. The result, however, was a morass of soft and hard conversions. Many elements of American highways are supplied in standardized dimensions, which confronted states with a choice between soft-converting the existing US customary measurements for these parts, or hard-converting to round, easy-to-remember numbers in metric units and hoping that it would be possible to supply these metric components at reasonable cost.

The contracting industry hated metric plans. First, it was hard to source supplies manufactured to metric dimensions. Second, the contractors found that day laborers could understand inches, feet, yards, etc. without difficulty or special training, but struggled with metric units. The state DOTs which were first to try metric units soon found that the unit bid prices on projects designed in metric were higher than on projects designed in US customary units.

The backsliding started in 2000. Caltrans was an early and enthusiastic adopter of metric units, but now most Caltrans plans are in US customary units. In Kansas in 2003, the contracting industry lobbied hard for a bill in the legislature which would have prohibited KDOT from letting contracts with metric units, even for existing projects where metric-unit plans were substantially complete. The newly appointed KDOT secretary opted to pre-empt this bill by announcing that metric would be phased out and all new KDOT projects would use US customary units. In doing this, she made a clean break with her predecessor, who had pushed metric hard against opposition from the contractors. It is now increasingly rare to see metric unit plans from any state.

The _MUTCD_ has used dual units since (at least) the 2001 edition, both for the specified dimensions of signs and for sign messages which refer to measurements. However, FHWA has tried twice to come up with suitable ways of metricating sign messages without leading to confusion with existing signs in US customary units, and both have been failures. The first approach was to use a black-on-yellow "METRIC" plate above signs using metric units, which were otherwise designed in the same manner as their US customary equivalents. No states or local agencies were interested in spending extra money for "METRIC" plates. In the 2003 _MUTCD_, FHWA tried putting metric measurements in circles. This eliminates the need for separate metric plates, but these signs suffer in legibility because the numerals have to be smaller in order to fit in a circle which must in turn fit into the same size envelope as the existing numerals on US customary signs. Quite a few state MUTCDs now prohibit the state DOT and local agencies from using FHWA's metric signs, in either version.

None of the standard arguments in favor of metrication apply in the US, which has had a long history of converting to metric in situations where it is economically expedient to do so. (The IT industry, for example, uses metric almost exclusively.) Metric is poorly understood outside scientific and engineering contexts, while US customary units are understood well in everyday life (driving a car, operating a front-end loader, etc.). The US market is so large that there is no effective loss of scale in supplying materials in US customary units to the construction industry. The construction-related goods and services the US is most likely to supply abroad are consultancy services for road and bridge design; this is knowledge-based and the people who work in this segment of the market are already familiar with metric units and can work with them easily in other countries which are natively metric. The failed experiment in metricating road design within the US (i.e., producing plans for construction on roads in the US) shows that the switching costs are real and large, with no guarantee that they would come down in the long term, or be repaid in higher output in the future. FHWA's attempt to have co-existing metric and US unit signs is both a failure and an argument against an incremental approach to metrication.


----------



## HAWC1506

Billpa said:


> HAWC1506, Maybe Obama read your article!  I can hardly believe we will have a president who actually cares about this stuff. _And _ a VP who rode Amtrak every single day between DC and Delaware. It'll be a nice change to a have leaders who don't think we should starve Amtrak of funding and then point to it and say 'see, it doesn't work' (well, DUH, it doesn't have any bloody money! :bash
> We might finally be turning a corner in this country after so many years of allowing our infrastructure to crumble.


Haha Obama would not think my article was credible enough. But I agree, it's nice to see that there is finally a _plan_.


----------



## Verso

H123Laci said:


> the similar thing happens with currency change (e.g. national currency -> euro) but that is only one unit.


It's horrible.


----------



## Xusein

The US is already de-facto metric. It may not be easy to notice, but it's a lot more metric than in the past. You can't label any kind of product without putting the metric units, and if you're in the science or engineering fields, you can't last long without knowing metric. Even our Coke or Pepsi drinks are metric...we all get 2 liter Cokes at the grocery store. How about that? :lol: 

I use metric predominately myself and I live in the US. It's not as hard to learn as it looks...it's actually much easier than customary when you start learning it. More basic. But, it will costs billions to implement the change (as well as changing the thousands of signs nationwide) that it really isn't worth making the change...but the US will eventually, if not in our lifetimes, change to metric.


----------



## He Named Thor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Late 1970's, they experimented with metric signs in the Syracuse, NY area:


Exit numbers are based on miles right? So is the exit no. on that sign metric as well? 

I'd like to switch to metric. Standard measurement irritates me. Decimal>Fraction


----------



## Xusein

^^ Not really. New York (along with a few other Northeast states) is one of the states that have still not transitioned from a sequential-exit number system, to a mile based one like the rest of the country.

The states that still use sequential exit numbering are New York and all of New England except for Maine. 

BTW, that pic is an extra special case. The New York Thruway, which that pic is from, has it's exit numbers increase from east to west. 

Ridiculous, but true! :nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle




----------



## ChrisZwolle

Cincinnati I-71/I-75/US 50 interchange


----------



## hoosier

^^Nice shot. The bridge carrying I-71/I-75 over the Ohio River is old and in need of replacement but there is money for the project. Maybe the economic stimulus package will pay for a much needed new bridge?

I am also trying to envision a high speed rail line in that picture, maybe using an expanded right-of-way alongside the freight line?


----------



## Tom 958

Well, that certainly looks familiar. 

When I go that way, I almost always take Green 85 northbound but new (1993, IIRC) I-85 southbound.

Green 85 is no longer and is a lot more interesting. I guess I should post those photos I took this autumn..hno:



ChrisZwolle said:


> A drive on I-85 in the Greenville/Spartanburg, SC area


----------



## Timon91

ChrisZwolle said:


> Cincinnati I-71/I-75/US 50 interchange
> .....


I've driven there last summer. I couldn't take pics because I was in the back of the car. And when I saw it from the air I my battery was empty hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Rolling through Kansas City on I-70 west.


----------



## Morsue

Timon91 said:


> I've driven there last summer. I couldn't take pics because I was in the back of the car. And when I saw it from the air I my battery was empty hno:


Back seat driver?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

10ROT must like this; a freeway tour of Hartford, CT






By FreewayJim


----------



## Timon91

Morsue said:


> Back seat driver?


Well, I couldn't find another word for that. I wasn't driving, but I've been there. Happy now?


----------



## pwalker

10ROT said:


> ^^ Not really. New York (along with a few other Northeast states) is one of the states that have still not transitioned from a sequential-exit number system, to a mile based one like the rest of the country.
> 
> The states that still use sequential exit numbering are New York and all of New England except for Maine.
> 
> BTW, that pic is an extra special case. The New York Thruway, which that pic is from, has it's exit numbers increase from east to west.
> 
> Ridiculous, but true! :nuts:


California started numbering their freeway exits based on mileage in 2002. As I understand it, it still is a work in progress. Of course, there are a LOT of exits in CA.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Actually, there are over 1000 exits in the urban Los Angeles area alone.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Monitoring some traffic congestion in the Chicago area. 7.45 local time.


> I-90/I-94 Dan Ryan Exwy - Inbound
> Between US-12/US-20/95th St (#62) and I-290 Eisenhower Exwy - 26 min.


26 minutes for just under 20 kilometers (12 miles) isn't that bad for a rushhour inbound commute.




> I-90/I-94 Kennedy Exwy - Inbound
> Slow IL-43/Harlem Av (#81A) to Belmont Av/Kedzie Av (#45C) Delay of 17 minutes


17 minutes delay for 6 miles or 10 kilometers is also not extremely long. 



> I-90/I-94 Kennedy Express Lns - Inbound
> Between Montrose Av and Ohio St/Ontario St Feeder - 16 min.


11 kilometers. Not bad at all.

Is the Chicago congestion more a myth than reality?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

St. Louis doesn't seem too bad either. I-55/I-64/I-70 (Poplar Street Bridge) is jammed, and a part of the I-270 along the west side of the urban area is jammed for about 4 miles, but the rest is free flow, except some spots where it's slow traffic for a mile.


----------



## pwalker

Here is a pretty good rundown on the worst traffic in the U.S.:

http://www.forbes.com/2008/04/24/ci..._0424realestate3_slide_2.html?thisspeed=25000


----------



## mgk920

ChrisZwolle said:


> Monitoring some traffic congestion in the Chicago area. 7.45 local time.
> 
> 
> 26 minutes for just under 20 kilometers (12 miles) isn't that bad for a rushhour inbound commute.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 17 minutes delay for 6 miles or 10 kilometers is also not extremely long.
> 
> 
> 
> 11 kilometers. Not bad at all.
> 
> Is the Chicago congestion more a myth than reality?


I think that it is all relative among us Midwesterners - everywhere else in the USA's Midwest, it is still the 'rush minute' instead of 'rush hour'. Also, I have never had problems with severe traffic congestion when trying to get around on Chicago's city surface streets. Chicagoland has much bigger roads and highways than most of the rest of the Midwest, too.

BTW, traffic is much worse in the Chicagoland suburbs than it is in the city, mainly due to there being far fewer available surface street routes for the land area and population than there are in the city.

Mike


----------



## pwalker

mgk920 said:


> I think that it is all relative among us Midwesterners - everywhere else in the USA's Midwest, it is still the 'rush minute' instead of 'rush hour'. Also, I have never had problems with severe traffic congestion when trying to get around on Chicago's city surface streets. Chicagoland has much bigger roads and highways than most of the rest of the Midwest, too.
> 
> BTW, traffic is much worse in the Chicagoland suburbs than it is in the city, mainly due to there being far fewer available surface street routes for the land area and population than there are in the city.
> 
> Mike


Very true. I believe suburban McHenry County (northwest suburbs) is the most populated county in the country with zero freeway miles. Randall Road acts as one of the main transportation corridors and it can be a nightmare.


----------



## Mr. Pollo

^^^^

Then, being located in the Midwest,

how severe is traffic in major Texas cities? (Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, Houston, El Paso, Amarillo..)

Is is known Texans prefer cars over mass transit (although Houston or Dallas are making great efforts in creating mass solutions).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Actually, I believe Houstons congestion dropped by a few percent in the last two years, while the urban area increased hugely. Dallas has a considerable amount of congestion, but I believe the other major cities (San Antonio, Austin, El Paso etc.) have only minor congestion.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think Dallas-Fort Worth congestion is mostly due to the fact the urban area didn't grow evenly in all directions, but they've kept adding suburbs along the northern perimeter, which gives quite some pressure on the north-south freeways to Dallas. 

Kansas City, on the other hand, has a bit oversized freeway network, but also has very few congestion. Traffic volumes are also quite low in the Kansas City area. On I-35, there are barely over 150,000 vehicles a day, which is quite low for such a vast urban area. 

Oklahoma City is similar, with very few congestion and I've read it takes only 30 minutes to reach downtown from the furthest ends of the urbanized area during rushhour. Those are distances over 15 miles.


----------



## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> Actually, I believe Houston's congestion dropped by a few percent in the last two years, while the urban area increased hugely. Dallas has a considerable amount of congestion, but I believe the other major cities (San Antonio, Austin, El Paso etc.) have only minor congestion.


The large cities in Texas I have visited include DFW, Amarillo, El Paso, and Lubbock. I never observed significant congestion except in DFW. It is indeed true that the suburbs in Collin County (north of Dallas) have grown enormously just in the last twenty years, and this has necessitated an extensive program of roadway improvements.

Since 1990, TxDOT has widened US 75, replaced the US 75/I-635 partial cloverleaf interchange with a five-level stack (the Dallas High Five), put in place an interim HOV widening on I-635 while planning a much more ambitious widening which has been the subject of a CDA procurement for a while now, and built some segments of the new SH 121 freeway. TxDOT is also planning a massive widening of I-35E. Between 1998 and 2003, TxDOT also built a massive five-level stack (really a rival to the High Five) to allow the PGBT to interchange with I-35E.

The other major provider of freeways in the DFW area is the North Texas Tollway Authority (NTTA), which has built or is building the PGBT, the DNT extension, the Lewisville Lake bridge, and the parts of SH 121 it bought from TxDOT.

At the moment both agencies are struggling for funding. The credit crunch makes it difficult for both to issue bonds (which TxDOT is reluctant to do in any case because its leadership is reluctant to encumber the department with debt--but TxDOT recently received bonding authority from the Texas Legislature in lieu of an increase in the gasoline tax, and there is pressure on TxDOT to use it even in the present unfavorable financial climate). There is a possibility that Barack Obama's incoming administration will expand funding, possibly by increasing the federal gasoline tax but more probably by a short-term increase in debt, but we will need to wait until late January or early February to see what becomes of the current round of stimulus proposals.



> Kansas City, on the other hand, has a bit oversized freeway network, but also has very few congestion. Traffic volumes are also quite low in the Kansas City area. On I-35, there are barely over 150,000 vehicles a day, which is quite low for such a vast urban area.


Let me assure you, I-35 in the Kansas suburbs of Kansas City is plenty busy during the rush hour. The part of I-70 between downtown Kansas City and I-435 is also unpleasantly congested, as is the eastern flank of I-435.



> Oklahoma City is similar, with very few congestion and I've read it takes only 30 minutes to reach downtown from the furthest ends of the urbanized area during rush hour. Those are distances over 15 miles.


30 minutes to traverse 15 miles is still an average speed of about 30 MPH. During the peak period I-35 operates at a mediocre LOS (not helped by the single-lane exits along the I-40 dogleg) and indeed I-35 has had to be widened between Norman and Oklahoma City proper.

Michael Koerner is correct to the extent that there is generally very little peak-period spreading in most Midwestern cities. However, there is typically a short period during the peak when the LOS on most freeways in a typical medium-sized Midwestern city (urbanized area population 500,000 or more) is just as bad as it is in much larger coastal cities during their peak periods. The difference is that the coastal cities tend to operate at LOS E or worse during much greater proportions of the day. Midwestern cities are also more likely to suffer from point bottlenecks (system interchanges and the like) because the short and sharply defined traffic peaks make it more difficult for agencies to justify programming early capacity expansions and debottlenecking improvements at those locations. In a medium-sized city like Wichita, for example, you can usually count on maintaining at least 45 MPH on the freeways at the absolute peak of peak period unless you have to change direction at a system interchange. If you are unlucky enough to have to do that, you will find that negotiating the interchange takes about 1/3 to 1/2 of your travel time, much of it at the classic LOS F stop-and-crawl.


----------



## Koesj

Houston would be a prime example of a city that has built itself out of congestion a couple of times now.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Interestingly, they don't have a very dense freeway network. Most radial freeways are spaced quite some distance apart, in contrast to say New York or Los Angeles.


----------



## hoosier

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ Interestingly, they don't have a very dense freeway network. Most radial freeways are spaced quite some distance apart, in contrast to say New York or Los Angeles.


Houston has an IMMENSE freeway network. It is a classic hub and spoke system. They need commuter rail to relive congestion or else plan on having 20 lane mega freeways everywhere.


----------



## SIC

mgk920 said:


> I think that it is all relative among us Midwesterners - everywhere else in the USA's Midwest, it is still the 'rush minute' instead of 'rush hour'. *Also, I have never had problems with severe traffic congestion when trying to get around on Chicago's city surface streets.* Chicagoland has much bigger roads and highways than most of the rest of the Midwest, too.
> 
> BTW, traffic is much worse in the Chicagoland suburbs than it is in the city, mainly due to there being far fewer available surface street routes for the land area and population than there are in the city.
> 
> Mike


You don't live in Chicago do you?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

hoosier said:


> They need commuter rail to relive congestion or else plan on having 20 lane mega freeways everywhere.


You need to change the spatial planning of Houston to make commuter rail having a chance to be actually some kind of alternative.

Some people just think money grows on trees, and trowing a couple of commuter rails through it makes all congestion suddenly dissapear. Why would a DOT bother spending half their budget on a modality only 2 - 5% use?This discrepancy between budget spending and actual usage is a problem for any DOT. You can spend money only once, and it better be on something that would be useful to most people possibly.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Cincinnati. Left: Kentucky, right: Ohio. notice the I-275 on the right (beltway) and the I-471 in the center, and I-71/I-75 in the upper part.









Denver with the I-25 on the left and I-70 on the upper part









Denver from the opposite side


----------



## Timon91

ChrisZwolle said:


> Cincinnati. Left: Kentucky, right: Ohio. notice the I-275 on the right (beltway) and the I-471 in the center, and I-71/I-75 in the upper part.
> http://farm1.static.flickr.com/43/123911977_5d0689fd62_o.jpg


I see the Great American Ballpark near the Ohio river 

I went to the National League match between the Cincinnati Reds and the San Diego Padres there.


----------



## Xusein

ChrisZwolle said:


> 10ROT must like this; a freeway tour of Hartford, CT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By FreewayJim


Thanks!  It must have been done on a weekend though...roads seem a bit quiet.


----------



## Paddington

ChrisZwolle said:


> Detroit Michigan Freeway tour:


What a missed opportunity. That guy took a lot of cheap shots at Detroit, and also missed many of the landmarks that you can see from the city's expressways. Of course, it didn't help that a major section of I-75 is closed for reconstruction. Still there's a lot to see on I-94, M-10, and the North segment of I-75 is a pleasant drive.


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## DanielFigFoz

I liked the Hartford video, but the videoon the previous quote says "This video is not avaliable in your country or domain". Anyway, Hartford seems to have quite good freeways.


----------



## HAWC1506

I think I saw more left-side on/off-ramps in the Detroit video than I saw right-side on/off-ramps...


----------



## HAWC1506

Major highway work coming:










*Drivers, get ready to see red, as in brake lights*

More roadwork planned for 2009

Tuesday, December 16, 2008
Last updated 1:00 a.m. PT

By AMY ROLPH
P-I REPORTER

Planning to stress less about traffic in 2009?

You might add avoiding the highways to your resolution list.

The coming year will bring a huge amount of roadwork to Washington's highways, including a major refinishing of Interstate 5 through Seattle and an overhaul of the Interstate 90 floating bridge west of Mercer Island.

The construction season for the Puget Sound region will start early and end late -- and hundreds of thousands of drivers will likely be affected at a time, state Transportation Department officials said Monday.
Roadwork map 

The Puget Sound region hasn't seen this level of road-related construction in decades -- if ever, agency officials said Monday.

"This is going to be the worst year yet in terms of construction," said Lorena Eng, the Northwest region administrator for the Transportation Department. "A lot of it has to do with the age of our infrastructure."

More than $279 million will be spent on road projects in King and Snohomish counties in 2009 -- up from about $162 million this year.

And though the increase in spending might seem to fly in the face of the state's $5.8 billion deficit, transportation officials said Monday that they will actually be stimulating the economy by creating hundreds of construction jobs.

The state is facing intense deadline pressure to get the region's aging highway system repaired quickly -- preferably before the start of major projects such as the state Route 520 overhaul and the Alaskan Way Viaduct reconstruction. And the 2010 Olympics in Vancouver, B.C., will complicate things even more with huge increases in northbound traffic.

"It's going to be the largest and probably the most challenging construction season we've put together to date," said state transportation spokesman Travis Phelps. "The work needs to happen now."

Arguably, the largest project will impede weekend and nighttime traffic on I-5 through North King County starting as soon as February, as crews replace 40-year-old cracked and crumbling pavement. About 440 concrete panels will be replaced between South Boeing Access Road and the northern boundary of King County.

The project will result in lane closures on weekends between February and August (excluding July) and weeknights from June through September -- though traffic will be able to move through at least one lane at all times.

But even though the repairs will take months and likely be a noisy process for those living or working nearby, it's a quick fix. More work will be required as the freeway continues to age.

"This isn't the total replacement or the total fix -- we're just buying some time," said Jim Farris, the I-5 project engineer.

The region's other major traffic interruption will likely be related to the replacement of expansion joints on the I-90 Homer Hadley Memorial Bridge -- just west of Mercer Island. Express lanes will be completely closed May 4 to 23, and the highway's westbound lanes will be closed July 5 to 28, meaning westbound commuters will be forced onto the newly open express lanes.

Transportation projects aren't funded by the state's general fund, which is facing a nearly $6 billion shortfall for the next 2 1/2 years. The state's 2009 projects are chiefly paid for by transportation taxes.

But the projects come at a time when Gov. Chris Gregoire is pushing construction projects as a key part of kick-starting the region's economy. Roadwork is likely to be a big part of a job-related stimulus package the federal government will unveil next month.

It wasn't clear Monday how many total jobs would be created by 2009 highway projects. But transportation officials estimated that there would be hundreds in the Puget Sound region, saying a three-year project to rebuild the Nalley Valley Viaduct on state Route 16 in Tacoma alone would call for 200 workers.

Because of the faltering economy, construction bids have been coming in much lower. The I-5 project will cost the state about $21 million -- about 37 percent less than originally anticipated.

Other major construction projects in the region include:

# The Battery Street Tunnel on state Route 99 will see weekend closures during October and November -- and overnight closures on weeknights from December through spring 2011.

# A state Route 519 overpass will be built, and the corridor will be widened starting in February, closing South Royal Brougham Way for as many as 15 intermittent weeks and Third Avenue South for 15 months starting in March.

# Across the Sound, the Hood Canal Bridge will be closed and rebuilt from May through mid-June, forcing thousands of drivers daily onto alternate routes or ferries.

Much of the day-to-day closure information for next year has yet to be determined. Drivers can find out more in coming months at wsdot.wa.gov/ .


----------



## Paddington

I will say though that in his world, that "Freewayjim" guy is king. He's like the Steven Spielberg of urban expressway drive throughs. I wish he had done a better job of Detroit though.

This drive through of I-280 (the least travelled of Toledo's 4 urban expressways) features part of my 22 mile daily commute:






I take the northern segment of this road, and the excellent Veteran's Glass City Skyway bridge each day. :cheers:


----------



## DanielFigFoz

^^ Very nice! I do like American roads in general.


----------



## Timon91

The Interstate on the video looks quite European IMO: 2×2, the overpasses, the exits (not too short exit ramps)


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

^^ I beg to differ. Doesn't look anywhere like European motorway. When you drive on European rural motorway, you still somehow get an urban feeling, but driving on American urban freeway, it still feels rural. Maybe it's just me...


----------



## Paddington

Best Detroit expressway landmark: the giant Uniroyal Tire :yes: :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> driving on American urban freeway, it still feels rural. Maybe it's just me...


I noticed that too. Except for most downtown/commercial area's, you usually only see trees. I think living in that kind of suburbia is much better than say the European new urban areas of flats, rowhouses and nearly no trees. 

One thing I also like about American suburbia is that people can park their car on their own lot or in their parking garage. In the Netherlands, all residential streets are filled with parked cars to the maximum. It gives an ugly view. Every spare room that's not someone's garden, sidewalk or playground has parked cars, even when there isn't a official parking space. I had to park my car on the green strip quite often (dozens of people do so) due to the lack of parking space.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-10 Katy Freeway in Greater Houston









I-610 Houston









I-45 Houston









I-610 Houston









SH-288 Houston









US 59 Houston









I-45/I-10 from JP Morgen Chase Tower, Houston









I-45 Houston



























All pics from Flickr.


----------



## tollfreak

Majestic said:


> I agree. But it's still better in my opinion to detour via Houston and Bowery than lose your nerves in a standstill on FDR. And you can always buy some fresh groceries in Chinatown on your way :lol:
> 
> It seems that the main problem with Manhattan Bridge on Brooklyn side is that you don't have a direct access onto I-278, the main Brooklyn thoroughfare unlike when using BB. Maybe that's why the latter attracts more trafiic.


The Brooklyn Bridge doesn't have immediate access to the BQE east, instead people on the brooklyn bridge have to use the same ramp as what people from the manhattan bridge use to access the expwy, which is adjacent to the DUMBO area. Also to 278 west, you have to travel 1/3 mile south plus a couple of traffic lights in order to reach the ramp. one of the reasons people use the brooklyn bridge more as it provides a more simpler access for heading towards the verazzano without paying the tolls at the battery tunnel. plus the brooklyn bridge provides instant access to brooklyn heights and the manhattan bridge allows trucks and very narrow, where as the maximum height on the brooklyn is only 11 ft.


----------



## Majestic

Entering Philadelphia via Schuylkill Expressway (I-76)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h25/Majestic12NN/DSCF5064.jpg

Interesting, I never saw the 6/10 notation before. How long is this actually? 600 yards? a 6th of a mile? 600 feet?


----------



## Majestic

^^ 6/10 mile (1,08 km) I suppose :dunno:
Maybe some American here can clarify.


----------



## Timon91

0,6 miles is most likely, since all other fraction numbers on the signs are also in miles


----------



## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h25/Majestic12NN/DSCF5064.jpg
> 
> Interesting, I never saw the 6/10 notation before. How long is this actually? 600 yards? a 6th of a mile? 600 feet?


1 mile = 5280 feet. So 6/10 mile = 3168 feet = 965.6 m (just shy of a full km). Generally fractional mileages are whole quarters of a mile but other fractions are not unknown--I think a sign somewhere quotes 1/5 mile, Minnesota DOT has some signs quoting 1/3 mile, and there is (if memory serves) another sign elsewhere in the Philadelphia area which says 1/8 mile.

The original interchange sequence signs in California did not use conventional fractions at all. Instead, distances were quoted in miles and tenths, with the tenths digit being presented as an underlined superscript (similar to underlined _o_ and _a_ superscripts for ordinal numbers in Spanish and Portuguese).


----------



## tollfreak

J N Winkler said:


> 1 mile = 5280 feet. So 6/10 mile = 3168 feet = 965.6 m (just shy of a full km). Generally fractional mileages are whole quarters of a mile but other fractions are not unknown--I think a sign somewhere quotes 1/5 mile, Minnesota DOT has some signs quoting 1/3 mile, and there is (if memory serves) another sign elsewhere in the Philadelphia area which says 1/8 mile.
> 
> The original interchange sequence signs in California did not use conventional fractions at all. Instead, distances were quoted in miles and tenths, with the tenths digit being presented as an underlined superscript (similar to underlined _o_ and _a_ superscripts for ordinal numbers in Spanish and Portuguese).


could this due to the fact that california borders mexico, which uses the metric system?.i do remember a rule that the metric system never uses fractions


----------



## Xusein

ChrisZwolle said:


> http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h25/Majestic12NN/DSCF5064.jpg
> 
> Interesting, I never saw the 6/10 notation before. How long is this actually? 600 yards? a 6th of a mile? 600 feet?


That's weird. Most places do it by quarters. I think that Pennsylvania is the only place to do that.


----------



## Houstonian

This is I-10, 18 Lanes and the widest freeway in the U.S (maybe even the widest in the world)


----------



## Timon91

How long is that section with 18 lanes?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Houstonian said:


> This is I-10, 18 Lanes and the widest freeway in the U.S (maybe even the widest in the world)


That's the recently reconstructed Katy Freeway. It's 18 lanes for only a small section, and it includes the frontage roads which are not actually part of the freeway itself. 

I think some section before an interchange with a large number of lanes doesn't really count, I'd like to count only sections between two regular exits.


----------



## Mateusz

Cool, we will never see something like that in Europe


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## ChrisZwolle

That's a good thing 

I'm not a fan of such wide roads that carry that much traffic. In my opinion, 2x4 should be the max, maybe 2x5 on short sections. Large traffic flows are prone to delays because of accidents, breakdowns, incidents etc. Spreading the traffic out is better in my opinion.


----------



## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> I'm not a fan of such wide roads that carry that much traffic. In my opinion, 2x4 should be the max, maybe 2x5 on short sections. Large traffic flows are prone to delays because of accidents, breakdowns, incidents etc. Spreading the traffic out is better in my opinion.


I don't think the Katy Freeway has more than five lanes on any carriageway in any direction for any substantial distance. The 18 lanes are shared among the feeder roads and the Katy Tollway (which runs in the center) in addition to untolled I-10 itself.


----------



## Tom 958

10ROT said:


> That's weird. Most places do it by quarters. I think that Pennsylvania is the only place to do that.


IIRC, Texas did it early on, maybe some other places, too. But quarter miles are better.


----------



## LtBk

Texas loves to make their cities as ugly as possible.


----------



## Houstonian

LtBk said:


> Texas loves to make their cities as ugly as possible.


You should really visit a city in Texas before you say an opinion like that.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Actually Texas cities look quite nice, interesting downtowns, like in San Antonio and Dallas, and nice residential areas with tree lined roads etc. (except the newer burbs ofcourse). Commercial zones and freeway surroundings seem less attractive though, especially in Houston. But I've also seen many pics of great landscaping.


----------



## Dan

A bit of news: Utah is now testing 80 mph on a short stretch of I-15 freeway (35 miles long). A law passed in early 2008 allows I-15 speed limits in really rural parts to be raised to 80.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 80: Des Moines - Omaha*

A fast drive across I-80 from Des Moines, Iowa to Omaha, Nebraska.






by ShingleCreek


----------



## LtBk

go_leafs_go02 said:


> Yeah, you're right. It does vary by state. But I don't know, whenever I imagine driving on an american highway, the sounds in my head are..smooth..quiet pavement..the bump (of a joint) the whistling sound for a few seconds, and then the other joint bump..and then smooth quiet pavement.


They sound like Tie Fighters.


----------



## Xusein

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ Were you 10ROT?


Was I?


----------



## Ginkgo

*Seattle Viaduct to be replaced...by tunnel*

*The "infamous" Alaska Way viaduct, in dire need of replacement will seemingly be replaced by a deep tunnel under the West Edge neighborhood of downtown Seattle. if this really happens, it will open up the Seattle waterfront for the first time ever, really. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008619010_webviaduct12m.html*


----------



## city_thing

What are the chances of this going ahead?

I looked at Seattle on Google Earth the other day - the area taken up by the viaduct seems ripe for rejuvenation. The property prices on the land above should be enough to cover the costs of construction I guess.


----------



## city_thing

pwalker said:


> Agreed, Pittsburgh sometimes gets a bad rap, but it really is a pretty city, reminds me a little of Portland, Oregon (without Mt. Hood!)


There was a quote floating around a few years ago by some famous European art critic... he said "If Pittsburgh was in Europe, people would flock to see it". It certainly has a position within the world of fine art. It has a great setting as well.


----------



## seawastate

*Floods close down Interstate 5 and other roads in Washington, USA*

Well, this was a couple days ago but many of the roads are still washed out.

Flooding closes Interstate 5 (again!, this happened last year as well)









Avalanche on Interstate 90









US 97 shoulder washed out









More photos
Washington State Dept of Transportation Photos


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## DJZG

someone post some map so we can see that


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Fear of Highway Driving Drives Many to Back Roads 



> CHRISTINA KELLY remembers the first time she tried to drive on a New Jersey highway after finally getting her driver’s license at the age of 45.
> 
> It was the last time.
> 
> “There was a lot of traffic, and I couldn’t figure out when it was my turn to go into the other lane,” she said. “I guess I wasn’t doing it quickly enough for my husband because he started yelling: ‘Merge! Merge!’ I just pulled the car over, got out, and handed him the keys.


I heard New Jersey's drivers are the most chaotic (fancy word for "worst"  )

The problem with such people is they often don't dare to drive at higher speeds, and merge way under the speed limit. That's actually causing more problems that it solves.


----------



## Billpa

Getting your license at that age may not be such a good idea- she'd be better off taking mass transit or getting her husband to take her around.


----------



## Majestic

That's interesting. A guy from NY I worked for also said NJ drivers are the worst. :lol:


----------



## Ginkgo

*There's a map at the end of the linked article, from today's (Tuesday) Seattle Post-Intelligencer. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/395724_viaduct13.html*


----------



## Dan

How harsh are state troopers etc when it comes to checking speeds on freeways in the following states? We'll be driving through them during our road trip in the US in June. We have a lot of driving, so it'd be nice to make it go a bit faster by speeding a bit (not much but a bit).

Illinois
Colorado
New Mexico
(Northern) Texas
Oklahoma
Arkansas
Tennessee (just Memphis)
Missouri

We'll also be driving in
California
Idaho
Wyoming
Utah
Arizona,
where I have driven before, so I know in general, but feel free to comment there too since it's been 3-4 years since I've driven in many of these!


----------



## pwalker

Dan1113 said:


> How harsh are state troopers etc when it comes to checking speeds on freeways in the following states? We'll be driving through them during our road trip in the US in June. We have a lot of driving, so it'd be nice to make it go a bit faster by speeding a bit (not much but a bit).
> 
> Illinois
> Colorado
> New Mexico
> (Northern) Texas
> Oklahoma
> Arkansas
> Tennessee (just Memphis)
> Missouri
> 
> We'll also be driving in
> California
> Idaho
> Wyoming
> Utah
> Arizona,
> where I have driven before, so I know in general, but feel free to comment there too since it's been 3-4 years since I've driven in many of these!


It's difficult to answer your question because almost all States have some level of enforcement, and it can vary from region to region within a State.

So, generalizing here, in the west Wyoming is probably the least enforced due to the lack of population. Idaho has pockets of heavy enforcement, I-15 to be sure, as does Arizona. Utah and California can go either way.

Somebody else can answer for the eastern States.


----------



## Paddington

Why don't you just follow the law and stay within 5-10 mph of the speed limit. Then there is no problem.


----------



## pwalker

Paddington said:


> Why don't you just follow the law and stay within 5-10 mph of the speed limit. Then there is no problem.


The limit is 75 mph in Idaho, Utah, and Nevada, as well as some other states.
80 is about the max before calling attention to yourself. 

You didn't mention Oregon, but warning!!! It is the only State in the west still with a 65 limit.


----------



## HAWC1506

Paddington said:


> Why don't you just follow the law and stay within 5-10 mph of the speed limit. Then there is no problem.


He wants to do the right thing and excercise civil disobedience against artifically low speed limits. :lol:


----------



## ir desi

I am not familiar with cops in any of the states, but friends in Arizona who have lived across the country note that Arizona cops seem to be the most harsh of all the states they have visited - I would be careful both in populated and unpopulated areas; rural county sheriffs can eager to roll out the ticket pad.


----------



## LtBk

I never understood why speed limits in the northeast and parts of the midwest is low.


----------



## tollfreak

good idea..following boston's big dig (coincidence?the eastern end of I-90 is a tunnel and the western end is also going to be a tunnel?)..sure will open up more development.Also,CMIIW, i heard that the Alaskan Way Viaduct is not suitable for earthquakes?(I heard it in one of those Nat Geo Documentaries)


----------



## ADCS

Dan1113 said:


> How harsh are state troopers etc when it comes to checking speeds on freeways in the following states? We'll be driving through them during our road trip in the US in June. We have a lot of driving, so it'd be nice to make it go a bit faster by speeding a bit (not much but a bit).
> 
> Illinois - Speed limit 65, stay around 70 to be safe. Push it to 75 if it looks clear
> 
> Colorado -Stay under 85 mph and you should be fine where the speed limit is 75
> 
> New Mexico - Same as Colo.
> 
> (Northern) Texas - Stay under 80 and you should be fine. 75 at night (speed limit drops to 65)
> 
> Oklahoma - Okla. Highway Patrol has a policy of not going after anyone doing under 85 mph. Speed limit 70 on I-40, so keep it around 80 to be safe
> 
> Arkansas - Speed limit 70, did 80 without any problems
> 
> Tennessee (just Memphis) - Same as Arkansas, but keep within 10 mph of the limit in urban areas
> 
> Missouri - Limited driving there (KC area), so no advice
> 
> We'll also be driving in
> California
> Idaho
> Wyoming
> Utah
> Arizona,
> where I have driven before, so I know in general, but feel free to comment there too since it's been 3-4 years since I've driven in many of these!


My thoughts


----------



## ADCS

LtBk said:


> I never understood why speed limits in the northeast and parts of the midwest is low.


High population density plus low gasoline tax = high revenue enforcement.


----------



## Ginkgo

tollfreak said:


> .Also,CMIIW, i heard that the Alaskan Way Viaduct is not suitable for earthquakes?(I heard it in one of those Nat Geo Documentaries)


*Your are indeed correct. Although by 2001 the viaduct was nearing the end of its "natural life span", it was the Nisqually earthquake of February 2001 which has spurred efforts ever since for a replacement. Another ten seconds of so of jolting and parts of the viaduct might very well have crumpled. Every few months the state comes in and buttresses some of the pillars in particularly weak areas--in spots the viaduct continues to sink and sag. Now, you have to understand that in Seattle projects such as this can drag on for years, even given the relative urgency of this particular case. And now that most of the public officials in charge have agreed upon the tunnel option, there is still the issue of how to pay for it. And in initiative-happy Washington State, a local resident has already filed papers to have the "people" vote--again on whether a tunnel should indeed be built.*


----------



## Dan

Thanks for the answers so far! I don't plan on speeding much but just a little bit. Over the super long distances we do it'll make a bit of a difference.


----------



## LtBk

ADCS said:


> High population density plus low gasoline tax = high revenue enforcement.


Most parts of the midwest have little population density. BTW, I read somewhere that police in Chicagoland don't really enforce the speed limit on the expressways.


----------



## pwalker

LtBk said:


> Most parts of the midwest have little population density. BTW, I read somewhere that police in Chicagoland don't really enforce the speed limit on the expressways.


Having lived there, no not true. They enforce it. But Chicagoland covers a huge geographical area with hundreds of suburbs and many expressways, probably 2nd to L.A. They can't be everywhere.


----------



## go_leafs_go02

American Merge Lanes: (majority of states I've seen)










alot of onramp mergers are similar to that, although they aren't nearly as instanteous, they still don't give you a lane to merge into.

Merge Lanes in Ontario:









I don't get why US States don't have merging lanes that are dedicated. I think the latest standard permits and encourages for DOT's to mark merging lanes to the end, but in my experience, they are basically non-existent.


----------



## snowman159

@Dan:

Just use common sense and look what other drivers are doing. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. If you're the fastet car on the road, there's a good chance you'll get caught eventually. I've driven all over North America and Europe and never gotten a single ticket.

Btw, I think most people way overestimate the time they gain from speeding "just a little". You'd have to drive at Autobahn speeds and keep it up for a long distance to really notice a considerable difference. So, just relax and enjoy the trip. 

my 2 cents,
snowman


----------



## HAWC1506

go_leafs_go02 said:


> American Merge Lanes: (majority of states I've seen)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alot of onramp mergers are similar to that, although they aren't nearly as instanteous, they still don't give you a lane to merge into.
> 
> Merge Lanes in Ontario:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get why US States don't have merging lanes that are dedicated. I think the latest standard permits and encourages for DOT's to mark merging lanes to the end, but in my experience, they are basically non-existent.


You are absolutely right. Those 'merge' lanes are called parallel acceleration (for an on-ramp) or parallel deceleration lanes (for an off-ramp). What I've noticed is that American highways have very long gore points, which substitutes parallel acceleration/deceleration lanes. Many areas, especially newer sections of highways, do have those lanes.

This one's on I-90 in Washington:


----------



## go_leafs_go02

Yeah. I don't care much about offramps, or have concern with them in the USA...as long as you have time to decelerate once in your ramp. I just am generally scared about merging onto a freeway or the on-ramps.

This is a prime example of something I experienced, in the state of Washington actually, and almost got into and accident.

http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=46.217224,-119.136853&spn=0.001789,0.004828&z=18

Extremely dangerous and primitive don't you think?


----------



## go_leafs_go02

I-90 around Snoqualmie pass?


----------



## ADCS

LtBk said:


> Most parts of the midwest have little population density. BTW, I read somewhere that police in Chicagoland don't really enforce the speed limit on the expressways.


By US standards, they have higher population density. Remember, we're talking about comparisons to states the size of Germany which have total populations of less than one million people.


----------



## HAWC1506

go_leafs_go02 said:


> Yeah. I don't care much about offramps, or have concern with them in the USA...as long as you have time to decelerate once in your ramp. I just am generally scared about merging onto a freeway or the on-ramps.
> 
> This is a prime example of something I experienced, in the state of Washington actually, and almost got into and accident.
> 
> http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=46.217224,-119.136853&spn=0.001789,0.004828&z=18
> 
> Extremely dangerous and primitive don't you think?


Yeah, Washington has a lot of outdated designs. We've got left-side exits on many highways, many cloverleafs, weaves, no parallel acceleration lanes, etc. They're fixing them one by one, but I still don't see parallel acceleration lanes being addressed. It's definitely dangerous. I'll send an e-mail to WSDOT and see what they say.


----------



## snowman159

go_leafs_go02 said:


> http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=46.217224,-119.136853&spn=0.001789,0.004828&z=18
> 
> Extremely dangerous and primitive don't you think?


Then take a look at this one:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...7,-73.829115&spn=0,359.998527&z=20&iwloc=addr

NYC has quite a few of those. But once you've mastered the art of getting around double and triple parked cars, it's not such a big deal anymore.


----------



## go_leafs_go02

snowman159 said:


> Then take a look at this one:
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...7,-73.829115&spn=0,359.998527&z=20&iwloc=addr
> 
> NYC has quite a few of those. But once you've mastered the art of getting around double and triple parked cars, it's not such a big deal anymore.


you forgot to mention this though:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...3.828773&spn=0.00049,0.001207&z=20&iwloc=addr


----------



## go_leafs_go02

HAWC1506 said:


> Yeah, Washington has a lot of outdated designs. We've got left-side exits on many highways, many cloverleafs, weaves, no parallel acceleration lanes, etc. They're fixing them one by one, but I still don't see parallel acceleration lanes being addressed. It's definitely dangerous. I'll send an e-mail to WSDOT and see what they say.


Yeah. I barely drive in the USA, but I notice that Ontario (my home province in Canada) has that down-pat.

I'm actually right pretty near the Washington-BC border now, by about 15 miles north of the Peace Arch.

I actually did sent WSDOT a letter complaining about something else. I sent it a week and a half ago, and just today I got a response, typical you know..thanks for your comments...and all that, but I got a fairly detailed response saying that they usually do do that, and that the Beacons were flashing to tune into the radio at 96 milemarker on I-82 (which 96 miles from I-90), but I definitely didn't see them, or else we would have stopped in Yakima.

Snoqualmie (I-90) Pass was closed from 10:30 AM onwards. I was driving from Salt Lake City up through Oregon.

here is a map for reference:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...78,-115.488281&spn=7.562255,19.775391&t=h&z=6

Anyways. WSDOT had no reference to the highway being closed there along I-82 until we passed Yakima. Now it we had planned to stop in Ellensburg for the night (right where I-82 ends at I-90). However, that was basically the last town before the closure.

What i was peeved about was that we could have just played it safe if we had known and stayed in Yakima. Instead we had to search around Ellensburg for a room (we did get one, but it was on our fourth attempt in the town)

And my #1 complaint was about lake of notification. We passed several VMS signs, including near the Oregon-Washington Border that were blank. 

I figured they could at least mention it there, being only 10 miles or so away from I-84 that they could take the alternate route of I-84 West into Portland and go up I-5. Instead I was well over 100 miles into the state before I knew about the closure. And we found out around 6 PM local time or 7.5 hours after the pass was shut.

thankfully it did reopen..actually that night around 8:30 PM, and remained open, but the fact WSDOT did not give any information until we about 40 miles away of the closure, especially when the website stated there likely would be maybe very limited openings for the next several days.

It all worked out, but as someone driving across the continent (from near Toronto, to Vancouver taking I-80 to Salt Lake, and then up to Seattle) Let's just say I think better notification would have been nice.


----------



## pwalker

I agree the notification signs could be more numerous, but transportation budgets are tight. As for the sign in Oregon being blank, I think that most states that use these signs focus only on their own state, so if there were no problems in Oregon, it would be blank. 

The trend on highway information has been moving to on-line and cell phone. For example, a lot of States, including Washington use the phone number 511 to get up to date road conditions.


----------



## go_leafs_go02

pwalker said:


> I agree the notification signs could be more numerous, but transportation budgets are tight. As for the sign in Oregon being blank, I think that most states that use these signs focus only on their own state, so if there were no problems in Oregon, it would be blank.
> 
> The trend on highway information has been moving to on-line and cell phone. For example, a lot of States, including Washington use the phone number 511 to get up to date road conditions.


Just want to quickly clarify. We passed several empty/blank signs. I'm talking about the sign in Washington, right at the Oregon border. That is WSDOT management.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Atlanta downtown tour*

A nice drive through Atlanta, it looks more urban than I expected.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Watertowndailytimes said:


> *Rooftop highway*
> 
> *The "rooftop highway" has gotten a lot of lip service from local officials for decades. Now it's time for them to take the next step.
> 
> The much-talked-about project is little more than a concept. It aims to create a four-lane road across the top of the state from Interstate 81 in Watertown to Interstate 87 in Plattsburgh to improve travel and aid in economic development. However, not much is settled about the highway beyond its start and finish. Getting from here to there is the problem.*
> 
> Gov. David A. Paterson recognized the shortcoming when he was questioned about his support for the project at Sunday's town-hall meeting in Watertown. Like other state leaders, he endorsed the concept, but with a qualification: "The state has a commitment to the idea if the local government also does as well. One of the areas that's going to be so important is: Exactly what is the location of the highway? And it will help us considerably if those issues are resolved."
> 
> Local governments need to respond to the challenge and take the initiative. Some tentative steps have been taken. About 100 people, including local government officials, economic developers and business leaders, gathered in Norwood to talk about promoting the highway, which included the timeworn resolutions of endorsement from every village, town and county government and school board in Northern New York.
> 
> Local government officials must go further as suggested Tuesday. They have to come together to outline an acceptable route for the expressway. Will the expressway follow Route 11 or Route 37? What villages will it pass through and which ones will it bypass? Will spurs to other communities be built? How will those communities react to the plan?
> 
> An exact location is not necessary, but a coalition of local officials must build a political consensus for an agreed-upon route if the project is to get serious consideration from the state and federal governments.


An expressway from Watertown to Plattsburgh (New York state)? Would that be necessary? It's a sparsely populated area north of the Adirondacks...

Traffic volumes are only 5,000 between towns and 10,000 in towns. That doesn't really requires an expressway...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> *Caltrans pushes back from I-215 construction deals*
> 
> *Caltrans says the state budget crisis means it is unable to sign a deal now with San Bernardino Associated Governments to continue widening Interstate 215 through San Bernardino.
> 
> Wednesday evening, a day before SANBAG was set to approve an agreement with the agency, Caltrans indicated it could not enter into the agreement, said Gary Cohoe, director of freeway construction for SANBAG.*
> 
> The first two phases of the I-215 widening -- a new Fifth Street bridge and a segment from Orange Show Road to Rialto Avenue -- are under way. The remaining portions include widening the freeway from Rialto Avenue to Highway 210 and constructing freeway connectors between I-215 and the 210.
> 
> SANBAG is hoping to award a $289 million contract for the segments between Rialto Avenue and Highway 210 in June, for construction to begin in September. But the project is funded in part through Prop. 1B state transportation bonds and another transportation program known as the State Transportation Improvement Program.
> 
> Last month, the state froze short-term financing for bond projects due to California's poor credit rating. On Wednesday, the California Transportation Commission extended that freeze to additional transportation funds.
> 
> SANBAG officials are hoping to find other funding sources, such as a proposed federal economic stimulus package, so as not to delay the start of construction. Still, Cohoe said he is concerned that a delay may occur.
> 
> The SANBAG committee did go forward with a Caltrans agreement for another portion of the widening project: building connecting ramps from Highway 210 to I-215. That portion of the project is scheduled to go to construction this fall and could face delays because it, too, relies on bond financing.
> 
> However, since Caltrans is the lead agency on that segment, it has more flexibility to halt the project later in the process if needed, and therefore was able to go ahead with the funding agreement, Cohoe said.


Something for a stimulus package?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> *Federal stimulus money not enough to fund I-15 work *
> 
> *The massive federal stimulus bill that was introduced in the U.S. House on Thursday isn't going to be enough to pay for Interstate 15 expansion through Utah County.
> Based on formulas used to dole out road money, Utah is likely to get around $200 million.
> 
> "Because it's such a smaller amount than we had hoped for, it becomes much more difficult to put it on one thing," said Nile Easton, spokesman for the Utah Department of Transportation. *
> 
> The I-15 project between American Fork and Spanish Fork weighs in at more than $2.5 billion and was slated to be started this year. It's the No. 1 priority project for the state, but the collapsing economy forced UDOT to freeze all projects not under contract and wait for the Legislature to assess the financial situation.
> 
> "It's going to be an interesting two or three months," Easton said of finding out what the actual federal stimulus will be as well as what state lawmakers will do.
> 
> State lawmakers aren't counting on anything from the federal government and will budget accordingly.
> 
> "We don't spend money we don't have," said Rep. Becky Lockhart, R-Provo.
> 
> They also don't know what kind of restrictions are going to come with stimulus money. Can they use it to bond? What types of roads can it be used on?
> 
> "It would be wonderful to get it with no strings. But that's wishful thinking," Lockhart said.
> 
> Easton said that while the amount may be less than desired, the formula -- based on miles of road and the number of vehicles traveling -- has worked in the past.
> 
> "You've got to have some kind of way to do it fairly, and that one is proven," he said.


Mumbles something about a gas tax increase...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Puget Sound Business Journal said:


> *Gregoire unveils $1.2B stimulus package*
> 
> Gov. Chris Gregoire released a $1.2 billion state stimulus package Thursday that includes a list of infrastructure projects, an increase in unemployment benefits and a tax cut for employers.
> 
> The package includes $817 million in infrastructure projects, with about $427 million in construction projects — a subset of the overall state construction budget that Gregoire proposed in December — and $390 million in roads construction.
> 
> The single biggest project on the list, getting more than a third of the total infrastructure dollars, is the $277 million improvement of the Interstate 405/State Route 520 interchange in Bellevue. The project would speed up traffic, lower congestion and reduce collisions by using ramps at different elevations to separate traffic going to SR 520 from drivers going to I-405.
> 
> Other roads projects include $15 million for the North Spokane corridor and $98 million in pavement preservation and replacement projects around the state.


Chris Gregoire is a woman by the way


----------



## AUchamps

ChrisZwolle said:


> An expressway from Watertown to Plattsburgh (New York state)? Would that be necessary? It's a sparsely populated area north of the Adirondacks...
> 
> Traffic volumes are only 5,000 between towns and 10,000 in towns. That doesn't really requires an expressway...


It's not needed. Ontario has Highway 401 and Quebec has Autoroute 20.

An American highway on the other side of the river would be needlessly redundant.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Texarkana Gazette said:


> *State officials want stimulus funds to aid Interstate 49 construction*
> 
> *Transportation officials in Arkansas and Louisiana are requesting stimulus funds to accelerate construction of Interstate 49. *
> 
> President-elect Barack Obama has suggested pouring $700 billion into infrastructure across the country, and the two states say their highway should get its share.
> 
> “We don’t have funding set aside,” said Randy Ort, public affairs officer for the Arkansas Highways and Transportation Department. “Federal funds are such that you use them or you lose them. You can’t just put money in a coffee can on a shelf.”


Currently, US 71 is covering the I-49 routing from Shreveport to Kansas City. Especially in Missouri, the road is mostly a 4-lane highway with parts constructed to freeway standards. In Arkansas, the I-540 runs from Fort Smith to near the MO border. A state route has been constructed from Texarkana to near the LA border. A north-south Interstate would make sense, given the fact the nearest N-S Interstates are I-35 200 miles to the west, and I-55 250 miles to the east.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

KJHR said:


> *The next phase of the I-44 expansion kicks off Friday*
> *
> On Friday, the Oklahoma Department of Transportation will break ground on the next phase of the I-44 expansion project. This will kick-off construction between the area of Riverside Drive and Yale Avenue.*
> 
> But before crews can actually start widening the lanes on the highway, ODOT will need to put in an underground drainage system and frontage road.
> 
> Construction on the new drainage system is expected to start as early as Monday, weather permitting.
> 
> The drainage system will be a mile and a quarter long running from around Peoria to Riverside.
> 
> All year long ODOT crews have been preparing to start work on this next phase of I-44 widening. They've been tearing down businesses all along the highway.
> 
> Crews will use about six million pounds of steel while working on the drainage system and 3,400 truck loads of concrete.
> 
> "This is the biggest project that ODOT has ever put up for bid, so it's a very important project for us and it's important for Tulsa, because we're coming in and we're fixing a highway that really was built before the interstate system was created," said Kenna Mitchell with the Oklahoma Department of Transportation.
> 
> The work on the drainage system won't affect traffic on I-44, but the westbound ramp to Riverside Dr. will be closed. Also parts of Skelly Dr. will be closed between Riverside and Peoria during the construction project.


This is in Tulsa, a larger agglomeration in northeastern Oklahoma for those who have never heard of that city. This is south of downtown, running from the Arkansas River to the east, having only 4 lanes. The nearest traffic count location I could find was near 41st street and carried 88,000 vehicles a day, which is indeed quite a lot for only 4 lanes.


----------



## Majestic

A little off-topic but I found it interesting. Quite unusual spatial distribution in Sacramento. Development west of downtown reaches only as much as 8km while to the east sprawl reaches as much as 29km. And in south-west it's even more limited, seems like river is the barrier, there's not a single bridge there!
Usually US cities grow more or less symmetrically around downtown but Sacto is just the opposite!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some more cities have that too. Think about Dallas-Fort Worth for instance, largely growed to the north. Especially remarkable because those cities have few natural boundaries.


----------



## Majestic

Rectangular-shaped ringroad of *Des Moines, Iowa*(I-80 + I-30 + IA-65). Over 75km in length - pretty long for a metro area of 550,000.


----------



## LtBk

I don't think car centric suburban sprawl is going to last much longer.


----------



## Majestic

LtBk said:


> I don't think car centric suburban sprawl is going to last much longer.


Yeah, only as long as there is oil on the planet :lol:


----------



## pwalker

Majestic said:


> A little off-topic but I found it interesting. Quite unusual spatial distribution in Sacramento. Development west of downtown reaches only as much as 8km while to the east sprawl reaches as much as 29km. And in south-west it's even more limited, seems like river is the barrier, there's not a single bridge there!
> Usually US cities grow more or less symmetrically around downtown but Sacto is just the opposite!


I believe the reason why the growth is mainly north and east of Sacramento is because much of the area west and southwest is wetlands and delta.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

LtBk said:


> I don't think car centric suburban sprawl is going to last much longer.


Mwoah, think of it as electric cars and suburbanization will continue... I don't think those cities with a lot of car-centric suburbs will eventually collapse...

To be frank, I think the idea that those suburbs will collapse if oil proves too expensive is just a wet dream of a lot of urban fans and parties. I'm sure the Americans will preserve their way of life... with or without oil.


----------



## LtBk

Not collapse, but rather becoming more dense,walkable, and more interesting. Besides, with the baby boomers aging and lack of new urban freeways, I don't think American suburbia will survive as it is now.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ That would be a good thing. Californian model suburbs are probably better than the east coast one. If only the California model also allowed for better access for pedestrians and cyclists (avoiding long detours due to layout).


----------



## Majestic

I personally like some new medium-density urban development like Atlantic Station in Atlanta (Freewayjim's video). It's aesthetic, effective and gives a city its urban feeling.


----------



## Paddington

They need to finish the Southern Tier Expy. I-86 in upstate New York (Lake Erie to New York City). That's a fantastic drive. :yes:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Isn't it already de-facto finished? It's only called NY-17 now...


----------



## Majestic

^^ I've driven this route in summer, all the way from NY Thruway to Binghamton and I must say it's far to being fully upgraded to an interstate. The pavement is quite bad (especially between Thruway and Monticello), the geometry and slope steepness is flawed in many places (although I don't know if that's a big problem in terms of Interstates), tight curves and there are even a few at-grade traffic lights intersections! Some stretches were undergoing reconstruction but it was just a few miles in total. Besides, traffic volumes are very low there, at night I was passing a car like every 10 or 20 miles :nuts:

And I agree with Paddington that it's a fantastic drive, especially when driving through Catskills.


----------



## LtBk

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ That would be a good thing. Californian model suburbs are probably better than the east coast one. If only the California model also allowed for better access for pedestrians and cyclists (avoiding long detours due to layout).


I don't know about California suburbia. With some exceptions like Pasadena and Santa Monica, its the same shit.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

ChrisZwolle said:


> Mwoah, think of it as electric cars and suburbanization will continue... I don't think those cities with a lot of car-centric suburbs will eventually collapse...


Chris, ever heard of a housing crisis? It is going on in America too, by the way. It would be a mistake to assume that deficit of oil alone will cause suburbia to collapse. I have lived in Californian suburb for 6 years, and to me suburbia symbolises the wasteful way of life. Should you buy a 4-bedroom house if you only need 2 bedrooms? What about the cost of heating/cooling for the extra space that no one uses? Does every member of a family have to have his/her own car? Do you need a huge SUV to do everyday shopping and take children to school? That is all American suburbia - a very well known American dream that soon seem to be drained down the toilet. It just cannot last forever because it is not sustainable. 

Those of you who argue that American suburbia will never collapse, should stop and look back at history. American suburbia has not existed for too long, maybe for about 50 years. From a historical perspective it is almost nothing. Great empires existed for centuries, yet they all have fallen unexpectedly fast. I don't claim that American suburbia will end up collapsing but rather slowly and gradually will cease to exist. Most of suburbia residents (upper middle class) need to get loans in order to buy a home or a car, but if no banks are willing to borrow them money, how can they afford this luxurious way of life? I think it is even more serious than the price of oil. 



> I'm sure the Americans will preserve their way of life... with or without oil.


And may I ask you what gives you this assurance? As a Dutch, you have not been exposed to the suburban way of life as it exists in America. Reading about something on forums is one thing but experiencing it yourself is another.


----------



## deranged

Billpa said:


> I agree you do have to be assertive at times, no question. But aggressive? There's way too much of that. Things like people riding your tail when you're passing someone and are already above the speed limit- it's the kind of thing that can make someone want to start going a lot slower. Or "power merging"- entering a motorway and immediately heading for the fast lane without any thought to yielding to those who are already on the road. Or, my favorite, speeding up the moment someone signals that he wants to get into your lane, as if the aggressive driver has taken out a deed on the 100 yards in front and behind him.


That's exactly what I'm saying; I'm not condoning aggressive driving at all. But obviously, to combat aggressive driving by others, one must have confidence in one's own judgment. Too often, I see people become flustered and indecisive when confronted with aggressive drivers, and their decision-making suffers.

Eg. In the tailgating example, the overtaking driver can feel "pressured" by the tailgating driver, and make a hasty decision to change back into the slow lane where there isn't sufficient space, cutting off the cars behind and possibly forcing them to brake. And in the third example, drivers may end up "in two minds" as to whether they should change lanes in front of the aggressive driver, or wait for them to pass, leading to late decisions and last-second lane changes.

Of course, if assertive drivers lose sight of the line, they cross it and become what they were trying to combat - aggressive drivers. And so it goes on...


----------



## Koesj

I'm with Chris in calling the preferred way of driving 'defensive', protect yourself from the aggro people, drive firmly but gently all the time.


----------



## deranged

Oh, I'm not suggesting changing the name. But assertive driving is one part of defensive driving.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Check it out:


----------



## Billpa

"Permanent" construction signage? Very odd.


----------



## Majestic

Or maybe you mean those 4 Toyotas on each lane Chris.


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Check it out:


SF approaching from Oakland Bay Bridge?


----------



## mgk920

geogregor said:


> SF approaching from Oakland Bay Bridge?


Yea, it does look to me like it is coming off of the bridge (note the main cables/anchorages on either side of the roadway).

Mike


----------



## ir desi

HwyIsraelFreak said:


> I just got back from Boston, and the highways there are worse than their reputation (a feat in and of itself)! In the tunnels, exits come without warning and with constant lane changes being necessary; on the Mass Pike, no mention of street names at exits; and then there is Storrow Drive. My nominee for worst highway in the US, it has premature signs with little direction or information, frequent jams, occasional flooding, extremely low clearances, cars parked in the shoulder, and there is always the tourist getting lost. Plus, drivers there are ridiculously aggressive and can easily cause major accidents. I now proclaim: If you don't know how to drive in Boston, DON'T!


A hearty welcome to Boston. Everything you said is so, so true. Still, I couldn't possibly enjoy driving as much in any other American city.

This is Boston now. You never experienced Boston before the Big Dig. Talk about some mad pissed drivers.

Hopefully while you were navigating Storrow you managed to at least get in a few peaks at the Charles River running right beside you? That's the thing about Boston. The roads may be crap, but the cityscape around you makes up for it tenfold.

Basically no interchanges in the state of Massachusetts have entry or exit lanes longer than 50-100 yards. You have to be really, really skilled to do a highway merge without stopping.

Massachusetts is notorious for terrible signage.Since nearly every major 2-lane road is a State Highway, locals usually have no idea what the road's actual name is despite the fact that it might be important to a visitor. Most highway interchanges are for a state route and the actual name of the road is never posted. Besides that, at intersections for the most part only the name of the less important intersecting road is posted. The logic is you know which road the major road is. Problem is visitors usually don't.

Still the state's interstate system is remarkably good. Most roads are in great repair and the system is not grossly overbuilt.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

mgk920 said:


> Yea, it does look to me like it is coming off of the bridge (note the main cables/anchorages on either side of the roadway)


It is indeed I-80 coming into SF from Bay Bridge. And the construction has been there for ages (at least for 6 years as I made regular trips there). However, the highrise on the right was completed as of August 2008 which means that the picture is somewhat old.


----------



## Xusein

That pic of I-80 in SF is a pretty nice view of the city! At least if you're stuck in traffic, you can just look at the scenery a bit, provided some big 18-wheeler or something like that.


----------



## dl3000

Yeah One Rincon Hill is the high rise. Tallest residential building in SF. One of my favorite pieces of road in the bay area.


----------



## Majestic

*Cool video of I-80 in Wyoming by Polish trucker. *






(HQ available)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Ah, near Green River. What a scenery


----------



## Billpa

That's interesting, at 1:32, the sign on the left has a long "up" arrow- normally you'd see a "down" arrow in America.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What do you guys think of the stimulus package concerning roadways? 30 billion out of 825 billion. I don't know, I mean 30 billion is a LOT of money, but is it really that much for a country of 300 million people? I always compare it to a country where I have most data from (the Netherlands).

U.S. stimulus package 30 billion for 300 million people, hence 100 dollar per capita
NL 2009 road investment: 3.5 billion for 16 million people, hence ~220 dollar per capita

Now, the Netherlands are quite underinvested when it comes to road-infrastructure.

10 billion is used for transit in the U.S. which is, considering the modal split, quite generous compared to the road package, since the ratio is 1:3, while the actual modal split is more likely 1:9, hence transit gets 3 times more on a relative basis. Not that that bothers me, they need it, but shouldn't they invest somewhat more in roads? I mean, if we look at the rehabilitation of road structures alone, the amount of money needed is way more than 30 billion (I've read 1600 billion somewhere). 

So should we really be so excited about the road infrastructure stimulus package?


----------



## Koesj

When you consider the size of the two countries compared to the relative investments the stimulus package comes out even smaller compared to 'normal' spending. By the way, the Economist magazine has expressed its fears a couple of times now that these extra-budgetary earmarks will lead to more 'bridges to nowhere'.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Koesj said:


> By the way, the Economist magazine has expressed its fears a couple of times now that these extra-budgetary earmarks will lead to more 'bridges to nowhere'.


Well, that are politics. If they are smart, they speed up widenings and improvements that were planned, but not feasible due to funding problems. And replace outdated bridges.


----------



## Majestic

ChrisZwolle said:


> 10 billion is used for transit in the U.S. which is, considering the modal split, quite generous compared to the road package, since the ratio is 1:3, while the actual modal split is more likely 1:9, hence transit gets 3 times more on a relative basis.


What's the difference between transit and road package?


ChrisZwolle said:


> So should we really be so excited about the road infrastructure stimulus package?


I think USA desperately needs reconstruction and renovation of its old and rusty part of infrastructure. And I'm not talking improving traffic capacity, I'm talking safety. As far as I know most of the bridges, ramps and viaducts were built in the 50's and 60's. The timeline indicates that a lot of those objects and facilities are technically outdated and in severely bad condition, especially those that run over capacity. I think that's where this money should be directed. 

When it comes to the stimulous package funds, I don't think it's a lot of money considering the scale of infrastructure in the States. Comparison to the Netherlands proves it fair enough. Also, we have to bear in mind that money that let you build 100 km of freeway 50 years ago, may now be enough for only 20 km (a wild guess). And of course the NIMBY factor.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Majestic said:


> What's the difference between transit and road package?


Transit is another word for "public transportation".


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I'm just gonna say it... I know many are not gonna like it... But they should increase the fuel tax in the U.S.

The era of cheap construction is over. If we don't invest in urban freeways now, it will be harder and more expensive in the future once the entire area is urbanized. (look at the big dig for instance.)

Anyhow.

I calculated what the U.S. government is collecting in fuel taxes per year.

Please correct me if I used the wrong figures.
Finished Motor Gasoline.










So, if my figures are correct, the US federal + state government would collect about 76 billion dollars per year in fuel tax revenue. 

To meet the 2200 billion dollar investment needed in 5 years, that means there is a gap of 364 billion dollar per year. Hence, there are other sources of income needed.


----------



## Billpa

You'll get no argument from me. It's time Americans were introduced to the TRUE cost of our highway and roads system. We've been doing it on the cheap for far too long. And if we don't start rebuilding (and paying for it properly) soon, we'll be forced to shut down some major highways because they'll be unsafe. Imagine that, a rich country like this willing to spend billions and billions on Iraq but not wanting to fix up the infrastructure at home.


----------



## AUchamps

Billpa said:


> If the choice is between making sure bridges don't fall into rivers while people are driving across them or building a brand new highway to make Johnny SUV's ride a bit easier to his Sam's Club I know what choice I would make. That report card is the reason why. We are no longer in a position (we really haven't been for years) to debate whether we in America should fix the old highways or put up new ones. The choice has been made for us.


With the way stores like Circuit City are dying, and auto companies that made their money on SUVs like GM near death, I think your argument wins.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Meanwhile, I'm still trying to confirm if U.S. daily traffic is really as bad as advertised on sources like Wikipedia.. Atlanta was in the top 10 most congested metros. Well, this doesn't look so bad at all. Only some minor congestion along I-285 northside and I-75 southbound.. but only for a couple of miles.


----------



## Tom 958

mgk920 said:


> There was once a proposal for such an outer ring around Atlanta, but it was NIMBYed to death years ago.
> 
> :no:
> 
> Mike


And I hay-ulped (old Shake 'n bake commercial).

To my amazement, anti-northern arc sentiments were strong even in heavily Republican suburban areas that weren't directly affected by the road, and ultraconservative Republican officeholders gave us more backup than I ever would've imagined. The thing was to be built with borrowed money at the behest of a Democratic governor, and suburban Atlantans hate taxes even more than they hate traffic.

So, "NIMBYed to death" is a rather gross mischaracterization of what actually happened.

Chris: Traffic here in Atlanta is scarily light since the recession started.


----------



## Majestic

^^ How is that possible? So many people lost their jobs or they transferred to non-existing PT? Or maybe whole neighbourhoods started to carpool?


----------



## Tom 958

Majestic said:


> ^^ How is that possible? So many people lost their jobs or they transferred to non-existing PT? Or maybe whole neighbourhoods started to carpool?


People losing their jobs, mainly. In one recent month-- November, IIRC, I read that Georgia lost more jobs than any state but Michigan. Plus, construction has a bigger portion of the economy here than in most places, and it had been hard hit by the real estate downturn, even before the crisis fully hit.

People can drive less, too. I've seen it before when the price of gas spikes, as it did after Katrina. Much of our driving is for nonessential purposes, so people can and will cut back if they think they need to.

According to our MPO, 70% of the cars on the road during PM rush hour are engaged in something other than commuting.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Couple of accidents happened on I-85 near Atlanta.

About 10 miles of traffic jam.

Pleasant Hill Road









Steve Reynolds Blvd.









Indian Trail:









Jimmy Carter Blvd.









VMS at Jimmy Carter Blvd.









Seems to be flowing again at the I-285.









This seems to be one of those minor-lane-closures-causes-massive traffic jam situations. 2 lanes closed on the left, traffic can't exit and becomes stationary, blocking all other traffic.


----------



## Rail Claimore

ChrisZwolle... here's the wikipedia page on the Outer Perimeter around Atlanta.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Perimeter

Interestingly enough, if you look at satellite images, you can see that most of the require right-of-way for the Northern Arc of the ring road still exists. My guess is that the project is not really dead, but that it will have to be built as a toll road, and that while traffic is pretty bad in the northern suburbs and exurbs, the potential toll revenue from traffic isn't high enough to justify building the road yet. My guess on this is from what I know about another US tollway system: The Illinois Tollway.

I can tell you that the only parts of the Illinois Tollway system that make money are the Tri-State Tollway (I-94/294), and part of I-90 between O'Hare Airport and Schaumburg (see map below). The rest of the system is subsidized by the Tri-State, and the reason for that is that the Tri-State sees the bulk of truck traffic, and thus, the bulk of toll revenue. I-90 and I-88 go for another 50 miles west of the map that's shown. The parts of the Tollway that actually make money are those that have a high amount of truck traffic and see an average of at least 150,000 vehicles per day. The link is to a map of traffic counts in the Chicago area.










The Northern Arc (and indeed the entire outer perimeter) was sold as a way for truckers to bypass Atlanta, but as it turns out, truck traffic wouldn't be high enough to justify building the road on that premise alone. To justify building an Outer Perimeter would require traffic levels that approach 150,000 vehicles per day, and a substantial percentage of them would have to be trucks. I very much doubt that even the Northern Arc, if built today, would generate traffic counts of 100,000 vehicles per day. But with the way Atlanta is sprawling, I think eventually an outer ring road will have to be built.


----------



## sotonsi

Rail Claimore said:


> The Northern Arc (and indeed the entire outer perimeter) was sold as a way for truckers to bypass Atlanta, but as it turns out, truck traffic wouldn't be high enough to justify building the road on that premise alone. To justify building an Outer Perimeter would require traffic levels that approach 150,000 vehicles per day, and a substantial percentage of them would have to be trucks. I very much doubt that even the Northern Arc, if built today, would generate traffic counts of 100,000 vehicles per day. But with the way Atlanta is sprawling, I think eventually an outer ring road will have to be built.


For trucks, you'd be looking at tangents further afield - I-14 from Augusta to Meridian bypassing I-20 to the South (and I-85 if you also use I-77 from Charlotte)


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## Nexis

*I think its time to Invest in Sluggish Cross Bronx Expressway , its a 21 Hour traffic Jam , except on Sundays for 7 hours. Over crowded , not safe, old , short merge lanes , signage peeling off, barley any shoulders, guard rails rusted out, Lights in the small tunnels are turned off during day light hours. Now u could say this about almost even NYC hwy , but this is different, taken by not just Commuters & Truckers , but the Millions of Plus People going to Connecticut or New England, there are Alt routes , but they can be a gamble ,mileage and traffic!*


----------



## Tom 958

Nexis said:


> *I think its time to Invest in Sluggish Cross Bronx Expressway , its a 21 Hour traffic Jam , except on Sundays for 7 hours. Over crowded , not safe, old , short merge lanes , signage peeling off, barley any shoulders, guard rails rusted out, Lights in the small tunnels are turned off during day light hours. Now u could say this about almost even NYC hwy , but this is different, taken by not just Commuters & Truckers , but the Millions of Plus People going to Connecticut or New England, there are Alt routes , but they can be a gamble ,mileage and traffic!*


Thought exercise: If you could transform the Cross Bronx into anything within the range of feasibility, what would you do? That's bearing in mind the constraints of the adjacent highway network.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A major problem in New York seems to be the geometry rather than capacity. 2x3 can handle as much as 160,000 - 180,000 if necessary, and most NY's expressways and parkways don't have such high loads. I think the geometry of interchanges reduces capacity very much. Look at the I-87 north to I-95 west connector for instance.


----------



## Tom 958

Gravedig! :ancient: Original post. I started writing this when it was first posted, but I got sidetracked and never finished-- until now.hno:

This is one of the most annoying interchange designs I know of. The configuration you see here is c. 1987, but originally the layout was a simple cloverdirectional, with loops in two opposing quadrants and left-off-the-mainline semidirect ramps in the other two, a common layout during the '60's. The abandoned bridge under the southbound roadway of I-285 north of I-20 spanned of of the semidirect ramps. So, why is this so irritating?









Because... that now-removed ramp carried virtually no traffic! As you can see on a map, anybody who wanted to go from northbound 285 to westbound 20 would do better to cut across on Ga 155. The ramp was used almost exclusively by police and emergency vehicles, with the occasional non-map-reading motorist (and prolly the occasional roadgeek) thrown in. Meanwhile, loops carried the two heaviest turning movements.

An obvious alternative would have been to simply mirror the layout, as was done at 285 and GA 400:









But topography made that a poor option. IMO, the best solution would've been to build a entering-from-the-left semidirect ramp for eastbound 20 to northbound 285 and put loop ramps where they are now. Doing this initially would have been slightly more expensive, but prolly would have eliminated the need for a configuration change when more capacity was needed, saving much money and reducing construction delays.

Another fun fact about this interchange: The 1987 rebuild moved the southbound 285 mainline adjacent to the existing northbound roadway, leaving the former southbound roadway for use by ramp traffic. For many years, there was no barrier between the ramps-- traffic could move as it might on a collector-distributor road. Which was OK because (a) not many people did it and (b) there were quite a few overturned truck accidents on the southbound 285 to eastbound 20 ramp due to a long downward grade on the former mainline. Truckers who realized they were going too fast could bail out by crossing painted lines to stay on the former mainline, at little risk to other motorists. The overturning truck problem was considered serious enough that plans were drawn to build a new, faster southbound 285 to eastbound 20 ramp at rather enormous expense.

Then... a few years ago, GDOT decided to build a jersey barrier separating the ramps, which I thought was very bad idea-- eliminating an escape option for overspeeding trucks in the interest of--what? However, I see no evidence that the jersey barrier has ever been hit. And i haven't heard anything about that expensive new ramp in a while.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This is an amazing part of the Interstate system.




by Freewayjim


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## Majestic

^^ Stunning drive and landscape! Interesting crashbarrier. Is it that rusty?


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## keber

Why is it so narrow in the second half of the video?


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## Billpa

The barriers are brown on purpose because it's a parkway through that stretch. I think they've kept it narrow because of the park status- they didn't want a full interstate to run through the area.


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## Guest

The barriers are supposed to give the parkway a rustic feel, sort of like the Garden State Parkway.


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## ChrisZwolle

Pasadena Freeway in Los Angeles, what a load of crap.









The pavement is 69 years old now.


----------



## J N Winkler

FM 2258 said:


> Aside from that wide medians are just great. I'm surprised to see most of the rest of the world using narrow medians even on new highways.


Most of the rest of the world would use wide medians if it could afford them. The first few US freeways were not built with wide medians but those were incorporated in later construction because they offered better protection from nighttime dazzle and crossover accidents without the need to provide central barriers, safety fencing, anti-dazzle plantings or bollards, etc. Wide medians also make it easy to put each carriageway on its own alignment (very useful in hilly or mountainous terrain) and also simplify land acquisition by making it easy to purchase uneconomic remainders.

In Britain, provision of wide medians on the motorway network was studied in the early 1960's. It was determined that the added land cost required to provide medians which would reduce losses from crossover accidents, etc. to the level that could be expected with center barriers would be equal to the cost of constructing an added lane in each direction. Even in the US, wide medians are not used in urban or suburban areas where land is expensive.


----------



## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> You can read some more about the freeway lane mileage list on my blog (in English);
> 
> http://dutchroadgeek.blogspot.com/2009/02/freeway-lane-mileagepopulation-ratio.html


One other observation. As a generalization, I would expect to see more congestion in a city with a large population than in a city with a small population, even if both cities had the same number of freeway lane miles _per capita_, equal densities, equally compact development in level terrain free of natural obstacles, and equal intensities of transport usage on a _per capita_ basis.

In the 1970's, the Transport and Road Research Laboratory (in Britain) did a tabletop study to try to assign an upper bound to the amount of road infrastructure that needed to be provided in a city to maintain mobility across the urbanized area, given some basic assumptions about density of housing and employment, mode choice, trip generation, etc. The central finding was that the amount of road capacity required to keep traffic moving at a given level of service increased much faster than population and developed land area.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think it also depends on the urban layout... with multiple job centers, traffic flows would mix better, instead of massive tidal flows to one or two centers. You have the same amount of traffic and capacity, yet fewer traffic jams.


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## J N Winkler

^^ Yup. This is essentially how large cities are able to continue to function. But the stylized fact is that the percentage of uncongested cities you can find in a given size bracket drops with increasing size. There are plenty of uncongested cities in the 100,000-400,000 population range, but far fewer (proportionately) in the 1 million-4 million range.

I suspect the reasons for this are largely economic. Cities do not reach significant size without periods of sustained growth. Growth works by taking the existing infrastructure and sets of transport relations and adding to the burdens on them. This in turn makes it advantageous for existing residents of the city either to accept a lower quality of service or to look for ways for new arrivals to pay proportionately more than they do (cf. California and Proposition 13). By the time a longer-term response to growth arrives in the form of edge cities and dispersed employment, densities have developed to the point where it is not economically feasible to improve the infrastructure to restore the mobility that existed when the city is small. Thus, the city's residents (both old-timers and new arrivals) accustom themselves to trading off congestion for the enhanced job and business opportunities that arise from agglomeration.


----------



## ttownfeen

FM 2258 said:


> I think wide medians on freeways are great. I don't want all those headlights right in my face. Plus the U.S. has so much land it doesn't matter how wide the median is.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look at that beautiful wide-open space.


Funny you should post that particular picture. I-20 is gradually being widened to 6 lanes from Birmingham east to Anniston (and maybe, in the not-too-distant future, the Georgia state line). That median will be gone soon, if it isn't already.


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## Rail Claimore

ttownfeen said:


> Funny you should post that particular picture. I-20 is gradually being widened to 6 lanes from Birmingham east to Anniston (and maybe, in the not-too-distant future, the Georgia state line). That median will be gone soon, if it isn't already.


ALDOT needs to hurry up with that and replace the washboard 1960's concrete that was such a plague on that stretch of road.


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## rick1016

Does anyone know what the "Northern" limit of those *raised* reflective pavement markings (RPMs) is?

I'm referring to these:










I already know that they have the snowplowable ones for the Northern states and provinces, like so:


----------



## hoosier

ChrisZwolle said:


> Actually, it has one of the least developed ones in the U.S. for the size of it's population.
> 
> And who's gonna buy all those right-of-ways for commuter rail? Every square buildable inch in LA is build.


The government used eminent domain to build the freeways- it can use eminent domain to lay some extra track, which will require FAR less space than a freeway.


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## Robosteve

Agree with FM 2258. Sometime when I have the time I'll make a video of the South Western Freeway in Sydney; parts of it have an extremely wide median, it makes for a really great drive.


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## ChrisZwolle

hoosier said:


> The government used eminent domain to build the freeways- it can use eminent domain to lay some extra track, which will require FAR less space than a freeway.


That's true on a one-corridor basis, but the problem is you'll need a whole new network of commuter rail, while there are less freeway corridors/widenings necessary, so on the grand total, commuter rail will need more ROW, and you don't even know how efficient it eventually will be. 

In NL, a passenger mile by train takes more space than a passenger mile by freeway, yet our system is far busier than in Los Angeles. So I tend not to be so enthusiast about the claims that rail takes less space for travel demand. 

Los Angeles should rather build some subway networks, and maybe some rail corridors above those canals, so you don't need a new ROW through neighborhoods. 

The problem is 
1) There's no money
2) Transit travellers do not want to pay the actual cost of their modal choice. 
3) Hence fare revenue is too low to cover the infrastructure and operational costs.


----------



## Billpa

rick1016 said:


> Does anyone know what the "Northern" limit of those *raised* reflective pavement markings (RPMs) is?


I don't know the answer to your question, but I do know that many places also use reflecters that are "dug into" the pavement as well, which obviously won't get ripped out by a plow. Of course that option also prevents the dual use of making a noise when you run over them.


----------



## rick1016

^^ Yeah that's true. They have a few of those in some areas of Ontario as well. One area that comes to mind is on Highway 403 heading up the Hamilton "mountain".

You can't really see them, but they're around here I believe:










Disclaimer: Photo is not mine, comes from onthighways.com


----------



## FM 2258

ttownfeen said:


> Funny you should post that particular picture. I-20 is gradually being widened to 6 lanes from Birmingham east to Anniston (and maybe, in the not-too-distant future, the Georgia state line). That median will be gone soon, if it isn't already.


That sure does look like a crowded rural freeway kinda like rural Interstate 35 here in Texas between San Antonio and Hillsboro (before the 35E/35W split).

I see no downside to wide medians. Here in central Texas when the y built the new tollway system they incorporated wide medians for future expansion.


----------



## Paddington

The downside is that it takes up and wastes and enormous amount of space, especially since a lot of these expressways run through urbanized areas.


----------



## Timon91

In Texas there is unlimited space 

See what happened to the suburbs in Texas, they reach very far, but there is a lot of undeveloped land in between. Still Texas is not the biggest state of the US


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ That's only true for Houston. Every space in DFW is pretty much used.


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## rick1016

edit


----------



## hoosier

ChrisZwolle said:


> The problem is
> 1) There's no money
> 2) Transit travellers do not want to pay the actual cost of their modal choice.
> 3) Hence fare revenue is too low to cover the infrastructure and operational costs.


LA has the ROW already in place to expand its commuter rail network. There are plenty of rail lines that run through SoCal. The Metrolink system runs on freight track.

I am talking about adding additional track along existing Metrolink routes.

And highways do not pay for themselves either. They require large amounts of subsidies to maintain. So why is this fact seen as OK for roads but not for railroads?


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ That's only true for Houston. Every space in DFW is pretty much used.


You are wrong, there is plenty of space in the DFW area.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

hoosier said:


> And highways do not pay for themselves either. They require large amounts of subsidies to maintain. So why is this fact seen as OK for roads but not for railroads?


Subsidies brought in by tax derived from automobility! This is a big difference with rail, where used tax are from general sources.


----------



## Paddington

DFW has even more sprawl than Houston. There's wide open spaces in downtown Dallas.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, DFW is larger... 6.1 million vs 5.6 in Houston. 500.000 people, 3 per house = 166.00 more homes. That's quite an area.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another "high quality" bridge, on I-20 just west of Shreveport, LA









By OKroads on Flickr.


----------



## J N Winkler

Paddington said:


> DFW has even more sprawl than Houston. There's wide open spaces in downtown Dallas.


Much of that is either parkland (think Dealey Plaza) or in the Trinity River floodplain. My own impression is that pretty much everything in Dallas that isn't either a city park or liable to flood has been built on, though obviously this isn't true for peripheral suburbs, which still have plenty of opportunities for infill development.


----------



## Billpa

Louisiana is often the reason Pennsylvania doesn't have the worst roads in America.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

http://wsbradio.com/blogs/jamie_dupree/2009/02/highway-bridge-stimulus-money.html

A state-by-state breakdown of the Stimulus money for roads&bridges.


----------



## HAWC1506

ChrisZwolle said:


> http://wsbradio.com/blogs/jamie_dupree/2009/02/highway-bridge-stimulus-money.html
> 
> A state-by-state breakdown of the Stimulus money for roads&bridges.


Alright who in the right mind decided to give Tenessee more money than Washington?!


----------



## AUchamps

HAWC1506 said:


> Alright who in the right mind decided to give Tenessee more money than Washington?!


Remember, I-69 needs to be built in Western Tennessee(US 51 from Union City to Memphis is not Interstate quality yet).

Also, TN 840 needs to be finshed as a half-beltway around Nashville.

Don't forget about I-475 to act as a reliever route for traffic to bypass Knoxville. You ever been to Knoxville? Right now, I-40 through downtown is fully shutdown while the Interstate is being completely rebuilt. Locals like to both groan and chuckle at the amount of perpetual construction on Knoxville interstates. It's been that way for the past 30 years, at least. See? www.tdot.state.tn.us/smartfix/jwp/

Chattanooga's gotta get their fair share of upgrades too. It's been over 10 years since I-24 got a good rehabilitation, and I-75 hasn't completely been reconstructed since 1990. Semi trucks ain't getting any smaller.

What I would like to see is a High Speed Rail that goes from Memphis to Nashville to Knoxville to Bristol, with spurs from Nashville and Knoxville to Chattanooga to connect with the proposed High Speed Rail to Atlanta.

Also, how about a rail line from Knoxville to Asheville, NC to connect with the NC expansion of their rail line?


----------



## nerdly_dood

rick1016 said:


> Does anyone know what the "Northern" limit of those *raised* reflective pavement markings (RPMs) is?
> 
> I'm referring to these:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I already know that they have the snowplowable ones for the Northern states and provinces, like so:


I don't know about NC or TN, or parts of the state east or south of Lynchburg, but in southwest VA and northern VA we use the ones that are a bit more flush with the pavement to allow for snowplows - they are placed in every other gap between dashed lines, and about one every 15ish feet near exit ramps. I guess the VA border is the southern limit as far as i know...?

I'm not entirely sure why we have snowplowable reflectors here - for all I know, snow is probably a myth - I haven't seen it in significant amounts since 2003 when i was in 5th grade. (Yes we've had "snow" since then but just two or three "storms" a year)


----------



## HAWC1506

^^The reflectors used in Washington are not snow plowable at all. In August, reflectors were laid down, and in December they were all gone due to the snow. I picked up a few of them from the side of the road .


----------



## Timon91

It's quite stupid that in a state with a lot of snow in winter, like Washington, they forget to think about the consequences of plowing snow :lol:


----------



## Rail Claimore

AUchamps said:


> Remember, I-69 needs to be built in Western Tennessee(US 51 from Union City to Memphis is not Interstate quality yet).
> 
> Also, TN 840 needs to be finshed as a half-beltway around Nashville.
> 
> Don't forget about I-475 to act as a reliever route for traffic to bypass Knoxville. You ever been to Knoxville? Right now, I-40 through downtown is fully shutdown while the Interstate is being completely rebuilt. Locals like to both groan and chuckle at the amount of perpetual construction on Knoxville interstates. It's been that way for the past 30 years, at least. See? www.tdot.state.tn.us/smartfix/jwp/
> 
> Chattanooga's gotta get their fair share of upgrades too. It's been over 10 years since I-24 got a good rehabilitation, and I-75 hasn't completely been reconstructed since 1990. Semi trucks ain't getting any smaller.
> 
> What I would like to see is a High Speed Rail that goes from Memphis to Nashville to Knoxville to Bristol, with spurs from Nashville and Knoxville to Chattanooga to connect with the proposed High Speed Rail to Atlanta.
> 
> Also, how about a rail line from Knoxville to Asheville, NC to connect with the NC expansion of their rail line?


But most of your argument can be made by other states: "Oh, city X needs to build this and city Y needs that." When dealing with transportation aspects of this federal stimulus bill, solid arguments can really only be made for projects of national significance, and I-69 is probably the only one that you mentioned that can be classified as such. That's the real discrepancy in state funding here.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-95 through Philadelphia by Freewayjim.





choose High Quality!


----------



## hoosier

It's nice to see Indiana get $657 million for highway funds. Our roads SUCK. Spend it quickly, Indiana, there are tons of shovel ready projects that can get started with this money.


----------



## Billpa

ChrisZwolle said:


> I-95 through Philadelphia by Freewayjim.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> choose High Quality!


At the 3:30 mark he was here:


----------



## rick1016

Nice looking freeway!


----------



## hoosier

Wasn't part of the Delaware Expressway (I-95) between the Ben Franklin and Betsy Ross Bridges shut down because large cracks were found in some columns holding up the freeway?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah I believe so... apparantly they fixed it...


----------



## Billpa

It was fixed after a couple of days- I had posted some pictures of it at the time, but I think they're likely somewhere in Interstate thread II


----------



## dl3000

It's not very impressive but the other side of Center City is the Shuykill Expressway which has one of the coolest skyline approaches I've seen. Youre drive through a forest along the river and then boom theres Philly. Its like a parkway more like.


----------



## Chicagoago

Here's a few pictures from flickr of the Des Moines, Iowa network of interstates. It has interstates 80, 35 and 235. It also has a southern bypass, but it's a state highway number, not an interstate.

They just finished a huge upgrade of the system to be around 8 lanes wide in most areas.


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## lasic

Great shots Chicagoago !


----------



## Nexis

*My first good Panoramic Shot of Cityscape of the City of Paterson,New Jersey & giant slice of Interstate 80 on the bottom! Direction Northeasterly *










Heading on I-287 today

Mileage Sign on I-287









Ramapo, New Jersey


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## DanielFigFoz

A 65 speed limit is a bit low, for that road.


----------



## Timon91

It seems to be quite a curvy section; 65 mph is probably not that bad.


----------



## Guest

The maximum speed limit in New Jersey is 65, and that stretch of 287 is not too rural. There are plenty of communities hidden behind the trees.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

The problem with the speed limits in the US of A is that each state sets its own maximum limit. It has nothing to do with engineering surveys or scientific data collection. Since the national speed limit of 90 km/h was repelled a while ago, some states did not raise their speed limits to a reasonable level sticking to the "safe" 105 km/h as in case with Oregon and a bunch of eastern states.


----------



## LtBk

I read that NJ cops don't go after speeders unless you are doing above 80mph.


----------



## dl3000

Yeah in California the speed limit is ALMOST irrelevant as long as youre going with the flow of the traffic. Most situations everybody is going at least 80 mph (~130 km/h). If youre one of the few cars on the road then they'll get you. Sometimes they will take a row of people going to fast I've seen that. Many rural areas the speed limit is raised to 70 or 75 mph but it has to have long straight parts and basically no exits. The desert is a great example of that.


----------



## Nexis

*LtBk : Depends on the Location , in rural areas yes in more Suburban / Urban areas they don't hesitate to pull you over , but they been recently going after truckers as they gotten alot complaints about there reckless driving, like using the fast lane to chat along side a follow rig. hno:


Heres more from my Mini Trip on Sunday!

Sheraton Crossroads is placed in a great Location @ the Interchanges of Interstate @ 287 , 87 ,NJ SR 17 , US Highway 202 , NY SR 59 and the near by Port Jervis - Ridgewood Train Route! Canon World or some HQ is next door as well!










Half mile away is the New York State Border









Route I-287 / 87 Eastbound / Southbound Ramp










City of Suffern Is Below the Massive Interchange Complex










A skipped a bunch of Photos in between the Interchange Complex in 
Suffern, New York & this next photo in West Nyack / Nyack , New York

Last Exit before Tappan Zee Bridge And Toll!










On The Bridge , noticed the uneven Pavement and redone railing on lights  it makes me feel safer now !










Approaching the Tarrytown Side of the Bridge. 










A view south towards NYC , unfortunately it was very cloudy , so u couldn't see it hno:










The View from the Restaurant Parking lot of the Tappan Zee Bridge ,Shame i didn't take it in to show the Portuguese Fried Shrimp i had :cheers:










Closer View










Hope u enjoyed my little update! ^^*

*~Corey Best *


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

dl3000 said:


> Many rural areas the speed limit is raised to 70 or 75 mph but it has to have long straight parts and basically no exits. The desert is a great example of that.


Did they raise the speed limit in California recently? I have yet to see "75 mph" on Californian motorways.


----------



## Majestic

Thanks for the pictures Nexis, good to see some familiar places. I used to work in Suffern last summer, right next to the Interstate crossing so I drove those roads numerous times, especially the Thruway. :cheers:


----------



## Paddington

If I ever moved back to the New York City area I'd love to in Rockland County. :cheers:


----------



## ttownfeen

I heard on the radio that Arizona shall be using some of its stimulus money to resign Interstate 19. The metric signs will be replaced with signs in American units.


----------



## He Named Thor

ttownfeen said:


> I heard on the radio that Arizona shall be using some of its stimulus money to resign Interstate 19. The metric signs will be replaced with signs in American units.


Noo! The gov should step in to stop them.


----------



## Robosteve

ttownfeen said:


> I heard on the radio that Arizona shall be using some of its stimulus money to resign Interstate 19. The metric signs will be replaced with signs in American units.


Why? That makes no sense; it's like trading in a Ferrari for a Model T Ford. :bash:


----------



## Majestic

ttownfeen said:


> I heard on the radio that Arizona shall be using some of its stimulus money to resign Interstate 19. The metric signs will be replaced with signs in American units.


That will stimulate the economy, no doubt :|


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They better build a loop around Tucson...

This whole stimulus package is no more than a lot of people's personal agendas, rather than really a stimulus to the economy. Repaving a road does not stimulate economy, only in the short term for the company who repaves it. If you want to stimulate the economy, build new roads and bridges, which are also useful in the long term, after construction completed...


----------



## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> They better build a loop around Tucson...


The TATS proposed one in 1965, but it is highly contentious, and is most definitely not something that could be built within a short timeframe.



> This whole stimulus package is no more than a lot of people's personal agendas, rather than really a stimulus to the economy. Repaving a road does not stimulate economy, only in the short term for the company who repaves it. If you want to stimulate the economy, build new roads and bridges, which are also useful in the long term, after construction completed...


There is a distinction between short-term economic stimulus and social savings. Short-term economic stimulus is what we need right now in order to oppose the present cycle of contracting production and rising unemployment. In terms of the multiplier effects which are felt immediately, there is not much difference between large projects (which have substantial social savings but require long lead times to plan) and small resurfacing projects (which are actually a form of consumption rather than investment because the resurfacing work never lasts very long, but are relatively easy to design, bid, and build quickly).

The real objection to Obama's stimulus bill, which is starting to be discovered only now that it has been signed into law, is that it is really two things. It contains a very small component dedicated directly to economic stimulus, with the majority of the spending being dedicated to pursuing social savings through investments which won't be made until after 2010. If there is an economic recovery in late 2009/early 2010 as some optimists predict, this additional spending could actually create undesired short-run "crowding out" effects (though the investments would still be worth making for the long-term payoffs).

In my view, the stimulus bill would probably do more to revive the economy if it were approximately the same size, but dedicated more purely to economic stimulus instead of long-run investment. But very few state DOTs are in the fortunate position of having large projects sitting on the shelf, ready to go, so what we have right now is the current orgy of resurfacing contracts instead of the possibility of hitting two birds with one stone by building large capacity-increasing projects right now.

P.S. I don't support metrication of traffic signs in the US in general, but I am sorry to see I-19 go back to customary units. The local media (1, 2) has carried stories on the issue, with an I-19 sign rehabilitation contract likely to go to bid in July.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

It is a bit sad and counter-intuitive to see de-metrication being done using stimulus money. I thought stimulus bill should promote progressive solutions and innovations but not finance steps backward in time hno: 

On a side note, I see more and more 1-litre bottles on the shelves of American supermarkets, not to mention almost all smaller quantities are sold in 0,5 litres and not 20 US fl. oz. as before :banana: So many Americans drink from these 0,5-litre bottles everyday and yet complain that they have no idea how much a half-litre is. "Hi, I would like to buy that 16,9 oz bottle, please" :nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-75 all the way through Atlanta;


----------



## Buddy Holly

Sweet video!


----------



## HAWC1506

So a lot of you were complaining about how U.S. drivers all move at the same speed so no one can get by. I'm studying for the Washington Drivers test and looking through the Drivers Guide, I found this:

_Keep pace with traffic_ - If you are going faster than traffic, you will have to keep passing others. The vehicle you are passing may change lanes suddenly or on a two-lane road, an oncoming vehicle may appear suddenly. *Slow down and keep pace with other traffic.* 

:bash:


----------



## RawLee

"an oncoming vehicle may appear suddenly"

That retarded. Who starts an overtake with 10km/h speed difference on a 2x1? On an other note,overtaking requires a clear long sight of the opposing lane,then how can anything "suddenly" appear?

"The vehicle you are passing may change lanes suddenly"

Dont drivers have priority in their own lane?


----------



## Verso

Maybe they mean, if there's a lot of traffic, in which case it's indeed pointless and dangerous to overtake all the time, winning a minute in the end.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, in busy traffic, I usually pick a lane and keep to it, adjusting my speed to the car in front of me. The problem is we have only 2 - 3 lanes per direction, while there are often 4 or 5 in the US. At 4 or 5 lanes per direction, you don't slow down the entire freeway when someone's tapping his/her brake.


----------



## HAWC1506

But if everyone is keeping pace with each other and moving at the same speed, no one can get by. That happens way too often in the U.S.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, I see that often in freeway videos. Lots of left lane hoggers, the left 3 lanes are often filled with slow cars while the right 1 or 2 lanes are almost free of traffic.


----------



## LtBk

That's American driving for you. Many american drivers(at least the ones in my state) don't use turn signals either.


----------



## Timon91

HAWC1506 said:


> But if everyone is keeping pace with each other and moving at the same speed, no one can get by. That happens way too often in the U.S.


At least you're allowed to overtake on the right in the US, over here that's prohibited.


----------



## Verso

Verso said:


> Maybe they mean, if there's a lot of traffic, in which case it's indeed pointless and dangerous to overtake all the time, winning a minute in the end.


I meant on 2-lane roads, just for the record. But I hate it that a lot of smartasses think they have right to go 100 mph (or at least the speed limit), even when a freeway is very busy. Just because I keep safety distance (unlike them), it doesn't mean I don't wanna overtake the vehicles in front of me.


----------



## Chicagoago

Here are some of the interstates around Chicago:


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Verso said:


> 100 mph (or at least the speed limit), even when a freeway is very busy.


I am not sure if I understood your message correctly, but in the US of A very few people drive 160 km/h even on an empty road :lol: Speeding when the traffic is busy is not the greatest driving problem in America, but rather blocking the left lane at any time (whether the traffic is busy or not). I think if they prohibited overtaking on the right, the number of left-lane hoggers would decrease because other drivers would not tolerate such behaviour. Now, it's easy to pass them on the right and forget about them.


----------



## Verso

^ Sorry, I meant here in Europe; I haven't been to the US.


----------



## thedudewiththeplan29

Atlanta interstates are insane! I have had people intentionally try to run me off the road no less than 6 times in the 18 years I lived there. There is a section of I-75 in Cobb County near the Windy Hill Road exit that is 9 lanes of un-divided lanes on one side and 8 lanes of un-divided lanes on the other! There is a plan to widen the interstate to a total of 25 lanes in the future! It does not help that there is no rail public transportation outside of the perimeter (I-285) of any kind! Most areas of metro Atlanta outside of the perimeter don't even have bus service. Heck, many suburbs of Atlanta don't even have taxi service to them! If you don't own a car, you are screwed! The I-75/85 section through downtown carries around 330,000 cars a day, one of the highest numbers in the United States.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some peak traffic volumes in the Atlanta metro from 2003.

Source; GDOT

*Interstate 20 aka SR-402*

Exit 58 (Hill Street) - Exit 59 (Boulevard Road): 204,640 (2x6 lanes)
Exit 67 (I-285) - Exit 68 (Westley Chapel Road): 190,000 (4+5 lanes)

*Interstate 75 aka SR-401.*
Exit 237A (Forest Parkway) - Exit 238 (I-285): 204,600 (4+5 lanes)
Exit 249 (North Avenue) - Exit 250 (10th Street: 365,240 (2x7 lanes)
Exit 259 (I-285) - Exit 260 (Windy Hill Road) 341,090 (7+8 lanes)

*Interstate 85 aka SR-403*
Exit 85 (I-75) - Exit 87 (Lindbergh Drive): 228,480 (5+6 lanes)
Exit 95 (I-285) - Exit 96 (Pleasantdale Road): 258,970 (2x7 lanes)
Exit ?? (Beaver Ruin Road) - Exit ?? (Steve Reynolds Boulevard) 266,270 (2x7 lanes)

*Interstate 285 aka SR-407*
Exit 28 (Peachtree Dunwoody Boulevard) - Exit 28A (Peachtree Dunwoody II): 231,310 (6+7 lanes)
Exit 31A (Peachtree Road) - Exit 31 (Peachtree Industrial Boulevard): 289,390 (2x6 lanes)

*Georgia 400 (SR-400)*
Exit 4 (I-285) - Exit 5 (Abernathy Road): 215,870 (2x4 lanes)


----------



## Tom 958

Late reply to something in another thread...hno:

Reversion of I-40 to its original route through Greensboro, NC, is a truly epic phail because considerable extra expense was incurred in building a proper unTOTSO interchange there, with the now-defunct I-40 entering from the west and leaving to the south. A regular cloverstack would surely have been quite a bit cheaper and easier to build. Plus, the layout will be confusing to motorists, some of whom will surely swerve across several lanes of traffic at the last possible second once they realize they're going the wrong way.

I'm sure that there were voices raised in favor of keeping I-40 on its original path. Too bad they didn't prevail.

The situation doesn't occur on I-85-- the new route is very popular and Green 85 between the new bypass and I-40 is all but deserted now. I have photos if I ever get around to posting them.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Atlanta's Downtown Connector traffic volume change:









edit:

And the I-285 - I-575 traffic volume change:









visualizing the above statistics;


----------



## Majestic

20-30% decline in traffic? That's a LOT, something you don't see very often. Looks like jobs are moving outside of downtown and into suburbs.


----------



## Vashon118

I-90 from 4th Ave (Seattle) to I-405 (Bellevue)


----------



## pwalker

Nice! That's a great stretch of Interstate. I believe reconstructed in the late 80's and early 90's. I was hoping for an approach into downtown Bellevue though! That would be impressive. BTW, the last half (after the main bridge), is through Mercer Island. The tunnels were required to get the project built as to leave the residential areas above basically untouched.


----------



## HAWC1506

pwalker said:


> Nice! That's a great stretch of Interstate. I believe reconstructed in the late 80's and early 90's. I was hoping for an approach into downtown Bellevue though! That would be impressive. BTW, the last half (after the main bridge), is through Mercer Island. The tunnels were required to get the project built as to leave the residential areas above basically untouched.


I'll see if I can make a Bellevue one for you once I get my license :]


----------



## pwalker

HAWC1506 said:


> I'll see if I can make a Bellevue one for you once I get my license :]


Thanks! Bellevue has developed into one of the premiere suburbs in the U.S., if you can still even call it a suburb. And good luck with that license!


----------



## HAWC1506

pwalker said:


> Thanks! Bellevue has developed into one of the premiere suburbs in the U.S., if you can still even call it a suburb. And good luck with that license!


Thank you :] Bellevue still has a long way to go before you can call it a big city. But I like the pace at which it's growing. It's not too fast so public services can catch up easily.


----------



## LtBk

>


I hate it when cities build suburban style strip malls in a major urban city like Chicago.


----------



## He Named Thor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yeah, in busy traffic, I usually pick a lane and keep to it, adjusting my speed to the car in front of me. *The problem is we have only 2 - 3 lanes per direction, while there are often 4 or 5 in the US*. At 4 or 5 lanes per direction, you don't slow down the entire freeway when someone's tapping his/her brake.


Only in bigger urban areas. Most of the time our freeways are two lanes per direction.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

He Named Thor said:


> Only in bigger urban areas. Most of the time our freeways are two lanes per direction.


I meant in larger urban areas


----------



## ttownfeen

LtBk said:


> I hate it when cities build suburban style strip malls in a major urban city like Chicago.


That looks like a distribution center to me, unless you are referring to the shops in the lower left corner - that's on par for any city outside of downtown.


----------



## mgk920

ttownfeen said:


> That looks like a distribution center to me, unless you are referring to the shops in the lower left corner - that's on par for any city outside of downtown.


That big 'distribution' center on the right is a major sorting center for UPS. The stuff to the left is a commercial area that serves the residents on Chicago's fast-growing near south side.

Mike


----------



## ttownfeen

mgk920 said:


> That big 'distribution' center on the right is a major sorting center for UPS. The stuff to the left is a commercial area that serves the residents on Chicago's fast-growing near south side.
> 
> Mike


Thanks. I'm not sure how it could look like a suburban style strip mall to anyone.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Stimulus projects in Minnesota:



Albert Lea Tribune said:


> *Interstate 35 to get variable-message signs*
> 
> By Tim Engstrom | Albert Lea Tribune
> 
> Published Saturday, April 11, 2009
> *
> Interstate 90 between Albert Lea and Alden won’t be the only stretch of freeway in the area to get some work this summer. Interstate 35 in Freeborn County will receive variable message signs.*
> 
> The Minnesota Department of Transportation on Wednesday unveiled its 2009 construction program of 223 state highway and bridge projects with a combined construction cost of $1.4 billion.
> 
> “Over the last six years we’ve moved forward with more highway construction than in any other comparable period in Minnesota’s history,” Gov. Tim Pawlenty said. “People sometimes say Minnesota has two seasons — winter and road construction. This past winter was pretty intense, and this upcoming construction season will be, too. Our aim is to move people and goods faster, better and safer throughout Minnesota.”
> 
> In southeastern Minnesota this includes 38 projects for a total construction cost of $159 million. “More than tripling the dollar amount spent on road and bridge construction in 2008, southeast Minnesota will see a number of projects this summer ranging from bridge replacements and highway overlays to safety projects like traffic signal installations,” said MnDOT District 6 engineer Nelrae Succio.
> 
> At a cost of $119,142, I-35 will get six variable message signs at various places in Freeborn County, with the work to be done in July and August. Intermittent shoulder closures will be the main traffic impact. Mankato Electric is the contractor.
> 
> And at a cost of an estimated $800,000, workers will upgrade signage on I-35 between the I-90 cloverleaf and Minnesota Highway 19 in Rice County. The contract will be determined in May, and the work begins in July.
> 
> Readers of the Albert Lea Tribune already are familiar with the Minnesota Department of Transportation and Freeborn County Highway Department working together to secure about $20 million in federal stimulus funding for work on I-90 and County Road 46 between Albert Lea and Alden.
> 
> About $16 million of it is for a bituminous overlay on the westbound lanes of I-90 between Albert Lea and Alden and a concrete overlay on the eastbound lanes. The remaining $4 million is for an overlay on County 46.
> 
> The work on I-90 and County 46 will be done between May and September. Ulland Brothers Inc. is the contractor. Without the stimulus, this project likely wouldn’t have been done until 2011.
> 
> Some other MnDOT projects in the region this summer are:
> 
> • Realigning and expanding Highway 14 south of Owatonna and building a new I-35/Highway 14 interchange, with a construction cost of $51.8 million.
> 
> • Replacing bridges on I-90 in Mower County at a construction cost of $13.5 million.
> 
> • Replacing bridges on I-90 in Winona County at a construction cost of $4.4 million.
> 
> • Repairing pavement on I-90 in Faribault County at construction cost of $3.9 million.
> 
> • Resurfacing Highway 60 in Goodhue County construction cost of $3.3 million.
> 
> • Bridge rehabilitation for 10 bridges on I-35 in Rice County and an overlay of north and south lanes at cost of $8.2 million.
> 
> • Concrete overlay, culvert replacements and guardrail work on I-35 northbound lanes in Steele County, mostly south of Owatonna, at a cost of $9.4 million.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Good news in the Pittsburgh area.



> *Lawmakers look to put 376 project in fast lane*
> Published: Sunday, April 12, 2009
> 
> By Jeanne Starmack
> 
> *NEW CASTLE, Pa. — Along Pa. Route 60 in Lawrence County, the signs proclaim: Future 376 corridor.*
> 
> They’ve been there since 2005, recalls Dan Vogler, Lawrence County commissioner.
> 
> Talk of renaming Route 60 and the rest of a route that begins in Monroeville, Pa., started many years before those signs went up, Vogler said.
> 
> By the end of this year, it may finally happen.
> 
> The Pennsylvania Department of Transportation plans to ask the Federal Highway Administration for the Interstate 376 designation.
> 
> That’s good news, officials say, for travelers and for area businesses as a route that has four to five names, depending on which stretch of it you’re on, becomes an easily recognizable interstate on the map.
> 
> Companies considering the area when it comes time to locate their businesses or do business with companies here will no longer think there’s no clear way from point A to point B.
> 
> They’ll see an interstate running through the area that can be reached via an exit off Interstate 80 in Mercer County or an exit off the Pennsylvania Turnpike in Allegheny County, with a straight shot to the Pittsburgh airport in between.
> 
> “Pittsburgh International Airport is currently the only major airport not on a federal interstate and, for years, this has hurt our region’s efforts to attract new companies,” said U.S. Rep. Jason Altmire of McCandless, D-4th.
> 
> Altmire has been advocating for the designation in Washington. He calls the corridor “a powerful economic development tool” for western Pennsylvania.
> 
> The future corridor begins in Monroeville off the turnpike exit there as Interstate 376. It’s also Pa. Route 22 and Route 22/30 to the Point in Pittsburgh.
> 
> Heading south through the Fort Pitt Tunnel, the road the corridor will follow is Interstate 279. It is Route 22/30 also, until it becomes Route 60 near the airport. It remains Route 60 into Beaver, Lawrence and, finally, Mercer counties.
> 
> Once the route is redesignated, it will become Interstate 376 the whole way, Vogler said.
> 
> Not only will it simplify driving directions, it also will allow PennDOT to obtain more federal funds to maintain the route, he said.
> 
> The part of Route 60 that’s a toll road, in Beaver County, will remain so, Vogler added.
> 
> Before the FHA will designate the new interstate, parts of the route have to be brought up to federal highway standards, Vogler said.
> 
> One trouble spot is at the intersection of Route 60 and U.S. Route 422 in Lawrence County where the north and south lanes narrow to one lane each way, he said. The road has to be widened there.
> 
> Vogler said that even if the work is not complete, the interstate designation can be obtained as long as improvements are in the design stages.
> 
> Altmire obtained $750,000 in last year’s federal budget for improving the intersection, according to information provided by his office.


Future I-376:


----------



## JohnFlint1985

^^

This is going to be all over the country. In my area of NJ there is a talk that with this stimulus money state will finally upgrade RT 17 in Maywood, NJ and make something like that below - RT 287 New Jersey


----------



## rick1016

^^ Nice.


----------



## Nexis

*Nice Shot of I-287, you know widing NJ 17 in Maywood is going to be a tough project , Some of Restaurants & other Businesses are literally right next to the highway with maybe less then 10 feet to spare. The Highway itself can't be shutdown. One solution ive always had is elevate 17 over that area where there is congestion, from all the stores. Now what puzzles me about Route 17 is that they fixed the 4/17 Interchange complex , but didn't fix the Maywood section @ the same time? Many of the Bottlenecks heading South are from after 4/17 , and Mall Merging traffic you immediately go from 5 lanes to 2 lanes in less then 800 ft , even @ midnight theres a small bottleneck. If this project were complete I can go south from Linwood Avenue to I-80 without any Bottlenecks. This would be the last location of NJ 17 that needs a major overhaul. After This is done they should focus on the US 46 / NJ 3 / Valley Road Interchange, that is much worse the NJ 17 problem and is Pile up waited to happen.


~Corey*


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Do you mind writing in normal text?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> *I-12 scheduled for improvements*
> 
> Posted: April 15, 2009 05:04 PM
> 
> *BATON ROUGE, LA (WAFB) - Governor Bobby Jindal announced Tuesday that half-a-billion state and federal dollars will go towards Louisiana bridges and highways, with $100 million of that going toward Interstate 12.
> *
> The money will focus on the stretch of I-12 between Baton Rouge and Range Avenue in Denham Springs.
> 
> The project includes new capacity projects, capital outlay, and statewide highway projects.


What's the condition of Interstate 12? I thought southern Louisiana highways were not in a very good condition...


----------



## city_thing

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ Do you mind writing in normal text?


BuT hE's LiKe ToTaLLY SpEcIal AnD KOOL!

He'S aN iNdIvIdUaL!

(I agree ChrisZwolle - it's wanky & lame)


----------



## JohnFlint1985

Nexis said:


> *Nice Shot of I-287, you know widing NJ 17 in Maywood is going to be a tough project , Some of Restaurants & other Businesses are literally right next to the highway with maybe less then 10 feet to spare. The Highway itself can't be shutdown. One solution ive always had is elevate 17 over that area where there is congestion, from all the stores. Now what puzzles me about Route 17 is that they fixed the 4/17 Interchange complex , but didn't fix the Maywood section @ the same time? Many of the Bottlenecks heading South are from after 4/17 , and Mall Merging traffic you immediately go from 5 lanes to 2 lanes in less then 800 ft , even @ midnight theres a small bottleneck. If this project were complete I can go south from Linwood Avenue to I-80 without any Bottlenecks. This would be the last location of NJ 17 that needs a major overhaul. After This is done they should focus on the US 46 / NJ 3 / Valley Road Interchange, that is much worse the NJ 17 problem and is Pile up waited to happen.
> 
> 
> ~Corey*



I certainly know what you are talking about - I live in Paramus and pass rt 17 every day. 
But after numerous times passing all these businesses by I examined the road there and have to say - it is not going to be that hard to expand / widen the road there to 3 lanes and a shoulder. There are 6 bridges that cross the road in Maywood / La Rochelle 2 miles stretch that needs upgrading. the biggest one - Essex street have been finished already. there is one more big one (RR bridge) which is in bad shape and actually turned 11 inches off its original position. So these have to be addressed first. 

All these businesses are indeed too close to the road, but same situation was on the Essex street just down the road and it was solved by building another small road at the back of the businesses as an access road. So you can enter the stores from the main street, but you can exit it only in one designated exit which will be at the back. Only two buildings will have to be moved / destroyed in the process of widening the road - one is right after the RR bridge Rt17 north (right across the street from Saab dealership) and this is some old warehouse which has nothing special about it. also there is a house on Pascack rd right next to the highway and this looks like a historic house to me and thus has to be probably moved to the side. In any case - all of the above is complicated by certainly doable. 

Finally here is another seemingly benign issue that popped out last year - they found toxic chemicals and radiation all along rt 17 in Lodi / Maywood area - where Sears warehouse is. It is rather in inactive state being spread there by the nearby river and originated from toxic waste Ford factory was dumping into the river until 1947. Ford is long gone but its crap is still here. That is why you see all this excavations going on and people in masks dig in the ground on the northern side of the road - until they will be done, and this is one wild card guess "when" - nothing will go forward.


----------



## JohnFlint1985

rick1016 said:


> ^^ Nice.


It is a very nice highway indeed. NYC metropolitan area is expanding daily, so one day 287 will become one major road that circles NYC to the west of it. Also mountains along the way -are simply gorgeous.


----------



## JohnFlint1985

Few more of 287. Here I am almost at the border of NJ and NY state


----------



## Timon91

Huge pics :lol:


----------



## rick1016

Very nice, I didn't realize it was that hilly in northern New Jersey.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

rick1016 said:


> Very nice, I didn't realize it was that hilly in northern New Jersey.


Oh you should see the Delaware Water Gap.

Here's a photo with I-80 on the bottom left.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> *North-south interstate link hard sell in Lincoln*
> _Friday, April 17, 2009_
> *A proposed north-south expressway linking I-80 to I-70 would be an economic development boon for western Nebraska and good for the whole state, said State Sen. Mark Christensen.*
> 
> But he's hit a roadblock in convincing other lawmakers of the need for a project study, Christensen said Thursday at the McCook Area Chamber of Commerce Legislative conference call .
> 
> Christensen's LB 648 would provide a 20 percent match in state funds for a corridor study on a four-lane expressway along U.S. Highway 83, connecting I-80 to I-70, when federal funds become available.
> 
> The study would cost about $1 million with a state match of $200,000 and would evaluate the feasibility of the expressway, he said.
> 
> The need for the expressway is crucial, Christensen said, as it would draw people and businesses to an area facing rapid decline. And what benefits western Nebraska would benefit the whole state.
> 
> The continued drop in population could even lead to a loss of a congressional seat in 2020, he said.
> 
> Christensen cited population declines in the western part of the state from 2000 to 2008, with Red Willow County decreasing by 6.5 percent, Hitchcock County by 8.9 percent and Dundy County, 12.7 percent.
> 
> Christensen said the chairman of the Transportation Committee, Sen. Deb Fischer of Valentine, opposes the bill. Other senators he's talked with agree it would be beneficial but are reluctant to support it based on fiscal concerns and other highways slated for funding.
> 
> "I'd love to see the study get done," Christensen said and adding that he would continue to pursue getting LB 648 attached to another bill. But whether that can be done or not depends upon agreement from other state senators.
> 
> "The problem is getting people convinced that it's imperative not just to western Nebraska but to the whole state," Christensen said.


US 83 route:








To be frank, this whole project seems like a waste of money if it would be an interstate. It's in the fricking middle of nowhere. I'd rather see some Omaha improvements along US 6.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Recordnet.com said:


> *Widened I-205 ready to open*
> 
> By The Record
> April 17, 2009 6:00 AM
> 
> *STOCKTON - Transportation officials are scheduled this morning to celebrate the imminent opening of a widened Interstate 205 at a mall parking lot.*
> 
> The 11-mile, $92 million project is finishing five months ahead of schedule and will increase the number of lanes in each direction from two to three, according to the California Department of Transportation.
> 
> Crews will start opening the new lanes in sections Monday, beginning at the Interstate 5 connector to eastbound I-205. Caltrans expects the entire project to be open by the end of April, weather permitting.
> 
> Officials will gather at 10:30 a.m. in the Best Buy parking lot at West Valley Mall to mark the occasion.


5 months ahead of schedule :cheers:


----------



## Chicagoago

ChrisZwolle said:


> US 83 route:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be frank, this whole project seems like a waste of money if it would be an interstate. It's in the fricking middle of nowhere. I'd rather see some Omaha improvements along US 6.


Who on earth would use that expressway?? There's really no reason to use it if you're driving through on either of those interstates.


I don't get the thought that Western Nebraska is dying, so they want to build this road to kick-start the economy. What are they expecting? People are leaving this area for a reason. It's not like if you build a road a bunch of people are just going to go drive on it....and then do what? Move there and open businesses because it's there?


----------



## Nexis

Heres some pictures that i don't think i posted here before

I-80 (WB) Approaching the Delaware Water Gap in Western New Jersey



















In the Gap I-80 narrows down to 2x2 lanes without shoulders , except at the park exits!




























The Speed Limit varies from 45 to 55 mph in the Gap Area



















One of the many Park Enteraces 










Last Exit in NJ on I -80 WB



















Looking over the Delaware Water Gap Bridge towards the NJ side




























Hope you like more Interstate and non Interstate Photo Madness coming on Sunday as i go south to rural Central NJ near Trenton 

~Corey :cheers:


----------



## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> US 83 route:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be frank, this whole project seems like a waste of money if it would be an interstate. It's in the fricking middle of nowhere. I'd rather see some Omaha improvements along US 6.


It won't be an Interstate or even a freeway; "expressway" in this context means an AASHTO expressway (i.e. divided highway with infrequent and widely spaced crossings at level, not necessarily a freeway). Note that the article is about a study, not construction itself, and the only parties quoted are all Nebraska state officials--nothing is said about Kansas officials and their attitudes toward the proposal.

I doubt this will materialize.


----------



## mgk920

ChrisZwolle said:


> US 83 route:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be frank, this whole project seems like a waste of money if it would be an interstate. It's in the fricking middle of nowhere. I'd rather see some Omaha improvements along US 6.


Agreed, total lack of traffic in that area.

hno:

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Traffic volumes barely touch the 2000's....


----------



## Timon91

Better invest in some more useful freeways, this is useless hno:


----------



## JohnFlint1985

Delaware water gap










interstate 80 in Delaware water gap




























RT 46 coming to the juncture with interstate 80 close to Delaware water gap


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Nice pics, probably Jersey's most impressive nature after the Palisades?

Check out this weird at-grade Dallas stack. I-30 interchange near downtown.


----------



## Lokiqi

mgk920 said:


> Agreed, total lack of traffic in that area.
> 
> hno:
> 
> Mike


I used to live in Lincoln, Ne for 6 yrs and if you go west of Lincoln all you will see is cornfields and the population dies down dramatically. The population around Lincoln and Omaha-Council Bluffs is pretty big though, more than a million combined. I've also been in North Platte and even though I-80 is pretty busy I don't think any body would use that proposed expressway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Cruel freeway


----------



## Majestic

What's that, Capital Beltway? It gets its massive delays daily, indeed.


----------



## J N Winkler

Not quite--that is I-95 northbound feeding into the Springfield Interchange. I-495 (Capital Beltway) is the cross freeway at this interchange.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

New stimulus project signs.


----------



## J N Winkler

What is your source for this sign?


----------



## HAWC1506

Variable speed limit signs on I-90 in Washington State near Seattle are up! Cool stuff. I like the European overhead gantries better, but this is quite unique.


----------



## mati162c

looking at those pictures in the middle of this page, i find it funny that, what u've called an empty road, we would call a crowded one, and what u've called not so bad traffic would be considered as a traffic jam in here...


----------



## Timon91

I-275westcoastfl made pics of the reconstruction of the I-275, where the northbound traffic moved to a new lane, next to the old one. The old northbound lane is thus empty and that's what he consideres to be a weird sight...


----------



## hoosier

ChrisZwolle said:


> Spain = plenty of motorway + extensive subway + huge HSR.
> 
> Actually, any country that REALLY invests in infrastructure.


In that case I agree with you 100%. Balance is key.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Timon91 said:


> I-275westcoastfl made pics of the reconstruction of the I-275, where the northbound traffic moved to a new lane, next to the old one. The old northbound lane is thus empty and that's what he considers to be a weird sight...


Correct! That empty road will eventually be grass, it's a weird sight because normally at rush hour it's jammed and not moving anywhere fast. 



mati162c said:


> looking at those pictures in the middle of this page, i find it funny that, what u've called an empty road, we would call a crowded one, and what u've called not so bad traffic would be considered as a traffic jam in here...


I've been to Warsaw and you guys have bad traffic in a couple areas because the roads are small. But since you brought it up the traffic in the pic was not as bad as it normally is, those pics were taken during rush hour and normally you are moving at 5-10 mph stop and go traffic. If you look on the left side of the pic below, it's normally like that. Florida has terrible traffic for the city populations due to sprawl and poor planning.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Here are a couple more pics of I-275 heading east starting further back.










The traffic is starting, keep in mind this is a Sunday too.




























The merge to the newly constructed part/still under construction.










Now the opposite way a couple hours later

Right after the I-4/I-275 Interchange heading west.




























Howard Frankland Bridge



















I-275/Ulmerton Rd(Hwy 668 I think) Interchange/Exit


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Tampa bay has a bit weird road layout. There are actually not many freeways for the population, only the I-275 to serve the St. Petersburg peninsula part, and the I-75 is not really useful to commuters. That only leaves a portion of the I-4 and the Selmon toll road.


----------



## Rail Claimore

ChrisZwolle said:


> Tampa bay has a bit weird road layout. There are actually not many freeways for the population, only the I-275 to serve the St. Petersburg peninsula part, and the I-75 is not really useful to commuters. That only leaves a portion of the I-4 and the Selmon toll road.


US 19 in Pinellas County (peninsula) is actually limited access in parts through St Petersburg and Clearwater, and it serves as a fast route through the peninsula when it's not rush hour. But it's one of the most dangerous stretches of suburban highway in the country because not all of the major intersections have overpasses for thru-traffic.


----------



## FM 2258

ChrisZwolle said:


> Tampa bay has a bit weird road layout. There are actually not many freeways for the population, only the I-275 to serve the St. Petersburg peninsula part, and the I-75 is not really useful to commuters. That only leaves a portion of the I-4 and the Selmon toll road.


I just looked at the map of the Tampa Bay area and it looks like IH-275 is the "main" highway through town while IH-75 is the "loop" around town.

For some weird reason I thought the 275 you were posting was Interstate 175 and 375 that go into downtown St. Petersburg. I got the numbers mixed up.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, but there are quite large urban areas not served by a freeway in the Tampa Bay, especially along the west coast. Surface streets ought to be pretty wide there...


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

ChrisZwolle said:


> Tampa bay has a bit weird road layout. There are actually not many freeways for the population, only the I-275 to serve the St. Petersburg peninsula part, and the I-75 is not really useful to commuters. That only leaves a portion of the I-4 and the Selmon toll road.


Yea I agree, the metro has no real loop and the highways are limited. I-75 is actually useful but you have to get onto I-275/I-4 or Crosstown Expressway to get into Tampa or out of Tampa, not good.




Rail Claimore said:


> US 19 in Pinellas County (peninsula) is actually limited access in parts through St Petersburg and Clearwater, and it serves as a fast route through the peninsula when it's not rush hour. But it's one of the most dangerous stretches of suburban highway in the country because not all of the major intersections have overpasses for thru-traffic.


Yes it is a very dangerous road, the traffic is bad and the light timing is also bad meaning more traffic. It is the ONLY North/South highway that goes from St. Petersburg to Clearwater. They are trying to make US19 have overpasses from St. Pete to Clearwater but funding has made that more difficult. 



FM 2258 said:


> I just looked at the map of the Tampa Bay area and it looks like IH-275 is the "main" highway through town while IH-75 is the "loop" around town.
> 
> For some weird reason I thought the 275 you were posting was Interstate 175 and 375 that go into downtown St. Petersburg. I got the numbers mixed up.


I-175 and I-375 are just two small stretches of highway going into downtown St. Petersburg.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Yeah, but there are quite large urban areas not served by a freeway in the Tampa Bay, especially along the west coast. Surface streets ought to be pretty wide there...


That is correct but the surface streets often are not wide enough or have poor light timing making commuting a living hell sometimes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Los Angeles: I-405.









I-110


----------



## dl3000

Haha I love how they've gotten into making the cut retaining walls appear "natural." (just look at the 405 picture. It's a trend in Caltrans I guess. Reminds me of a theme park or something. Definitely better than a bare wall. I like it. I'm sure other places do it too I just notice it a lot around where I live.


----------



## HAWC1506

FINALLY a full concept: http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/73AC9A17-6178-4271-B3A9-91911BD1C8C6/0/FinalATMConceptofOperations.pdf


----------



## go_leafs_go02

HAWC1506 said:


> FINALLY a full concept: http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/73AC9A17-6178-4271-B3A9-91911BD1C8C6/0/FinalATMConceptofOperations.pdf


beautiful...

love those concepts..i was in europe a few summers ago..and wondered..why the heck can't we have systems like this here?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> In Germany, hard shoulder running is used with speed harmonization to address freeway capacity bottlenecks. It allows for additional capacity during congestion and has been in use since the 1990s. The Netherlands started using this strategy in 2003 as part of a larger program to improve use of the existing infrastructure.


I believe it was 1993 on the A28 near Utrecht. Could've been the first in the world.


----------



## J N Winkler

I don't think it is--I think I-66 in northern Virginia had peak-time shoulder operation before 1993.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I just checked it, the first in NL was 1996 on A28.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

HAWC1506 said:


> FINALLY a full concept: http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/73AC9A17-6178-4271-B3A9-91911BD1C8C6/0/FinalATMConceptofOperations.pdf


Very nice concept! America is slowly catching up with those Old World's innovations :lol: One of my biggest pet peeves in American design is the use of text instead of pictographs. But hey, not bad for a start...


----------



## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> I just checked it, the first in NL was 1996 on A28.


Is it possible the basis for the Dutch claim is the use of variable speed limits? I-66 has shoulder operation but no variable speed limits (unless this has been introduced since I was last in the DC area in 1998), and I am not aware of any pre-1990's installations featuring both shoulder running and variable speed limits.


----------



## J N Winkler

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> I am not arguing about the ability of foreigners to read a few words in English. I think that international signs that use pictographs instead of text are better because they provide for better visibility and faster recognition. I am also not proposing to start using red triangles instead of yellow diamonds. All I am saying is that replacing words with pictographs would only produce benefits and virtually no drawbacks.


There are a number of flaws in your argument.

* There are certain hazards for which it is difficult to develop appropriate symbol signs and which are therefore signed using words even in countries where the traffic signing system uses pictograms primarily and has for decades. For instance, many US states use "ROAD DAMAGE" warning signs to indicate lengths of pavement which are in bad repair, while Germany uses a generic "!" triangle sign with "Strassenschaden" on a supplementary plate. In fact, countries which do not put the text information on the main sign (because their signing system emphasizes pictograms) tend to use supplementary plates as an escape clause. Many of them have dozens of standard text-message supplementary plates which can be used in conjunction with generic "!" signs.

* Although it is true that the US has an immense number of standard word-message signs, most of these signs are used only very rarely. The signs you are likely to see most frequently in the US are symbolic.

* In the case of regulatory signs in the US (many of which are symbolic--cf. the "Keep right" sign), there is often limited scope for changing from text message to symbols, largely because certain signs have particular legal meanings which require that certain terminology must be used. This is particularly true for signs denoting speed limits. In some states, for example, "SPEED" has a meaning which is distinct from "SPEED LIMIT," while in other states "VILLAGE SPEED LIMIT" or variants thereof are used as part of a zone signing system and thus do not have precisely the same function or meaning as an ordinary speed limit sign. The text messages associated with these signs explain their meaning clearly and explicitly, which is not something that can be said of the European equivalents. It is counterintuitive to link speed limits to village name signs, for example, and this is not done in all countries and so is not an uniform practice. (The UK doesn't do it, while Spain does.)

* Guide signs in the US do have certain repeated words which generally appear in uppercase letter height at three-quarters the height of the main sign legend and can easily be replaced by symbols. (Cases in point include "JCT," "EXIT," "EXIT ONLY" on yellow background, "MILE," etc.) But what would be the benefit? Drivers already read the repeated text more or less as symbols.

* In the US, certain symbolic signs have caused comprehension problems for decades. The pavement width transition warning sign is probably the most well-known example of this; the standard has cycled from showing the lane lines, to not showing the lane lines, to showing lane lines again over the past 40 years. There is no internationally standardized symbol sign for this condition, with some countries treating it as a warning condition (which means triangle warning signs) while others treat it as an information condition (which means "wicket" signs using parallel arrows). In these difficult cases it is hard to resist the argument that text messages are less ambiguous--for example, "RIGHT LANE ENDS."

* The US uses symbol signs for some conditions where other countries use text-message signs. The US "Divided highway ahead" sign is symbolic, while the British "Dual carriageway ahead" sign uses text only.

The UK is the only country I know of which changed from a largely text-based system to a symbol-based system and carried out extensive before-and-after studies. This occurred in 1965 when the Worboys signs were introduced, and the Transport and Road Research Laboratory conducted a number of social surveys until the early 1970's to determine how well the new signs were understood in comparison to the ones they replaced. TRRL found that while the new signs typically had much better glance recognition, drivers had great difficulty remembering what the symbols _meant_. It is all well and good to argue that drivers should master the basics of the signing system, but as a matter of social policy it is difficult to justify moving from a system which is widely understood but requires knowledge of a particular language to one which relies on internationally uniform symbols but is not as well understood by the local population.

And, as we have seen, pictogram-based signing systems are themselves often extremely verbose (particularly in advanced industrialized countries), while the pictogram schemes often vary (dramatically so in the case of certain signs) from country to country. On the other hand, text-based signing systems often make extremely heavy use of symbols (as in the US). So for the US to change to a pictogram-based system would be to make an alteration at the margin where the costs may very well outweigh the benefits. In terms of using pictograms to improve recognition of traffic signs, the low-hanging fruit in the US was picked long ago, in 1971, when the current generation of symbolic signs was rolled out in that year's revision of the _MUTCD_.


----------



## FM 2258

HAWC1506 said:


> Red works a lot better for speed limits. It's more visible than black and white. The U.S. has two things it needs to accomplish:
> 
> 1. Convert to the metric system.
> 
> 2. Adopt International signage.


Why do so many people in this forum support the U.S. changing it's signage and converting to the metric system? I think our signs are fine and using miles, feet and inches on our highways works very well. 

I hope we keep our signs the way they are because that's what makes our highway system so unique. It's easier for me to think in miles, feet and inches when it comes to driving. I also like our text based warning signs. They convey information more succinctly and efficiently if you know how to read the language. I've driven in Italy where they use the "international signage" and a lot of signs made me think "what the hell does that mean?" All I really needed to remember was that speed limit signs in Italy look like New Mexico state highway signs without the native American flair.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Clearview! 

Many people hate it, but I kinda like it, although it's not really necessary to replace the existing font since that one does it's job quite good (around the world).








by coredesatchikai


----------



## dl3000

Hell Im for changing to metric in general, let alone road signs.


----------



## ARGYRO

The US highway system is the best !.


----------



## LtBk

Most knowledgeable drivers in the US according to GMAC:
http://www.gmacinsurance.com/SafeDriving/2008/PressRelease.asp


----------



## bakatje

I loved the signage in America during my roadtrip. No need to change that. Metric system would be nice though. xD


----------



## pwalker

LtBk said:


> Most knowledgeable drivers in the US according to GMAC:
> http://www.gmacinsurance.com/SafeDriving/2008/PressRelease.asp


Isn't that funny...the drivers with the most knowledge are generally in less-populated States! I can't really figure that out. However, in Idaho, for example, I have noticed drivers understand certain basic freeway etiquitte, like keeping to the right on freeways, moving over to the far lane for police stops, and allowing merging traffic in by moving over. Commen sense, for sure, but in bigger States not common at all.

As for the metric system, there was a full-on attempt to move the country in this direction in the mid and late 1970's. It was met with complete indifference, and died.


----------



## LtBk

I was excepting MD to be ranked lower in the list after seeing how people drive around here daily.


----------



## pwalker

LOL, I used to think the worst U.S. drivers were in Boston, but after my trip to the DC-Maryland-Virginia area last summer, I have a new champion!


----------



## hoosier

ARGYRO said:


> The US highway system is the best !.


You clearly haven't driven on our roads.:lol:


----------



## ARGYRO

hoosier said:


> You clearly haven't driven on our roads.:lol:


Well ... I´m afraid I HAVE .. .. That´s why I say US have a great highway system. It is not perfect... but I find amazing how a big country like yours has such an organized road system. The last time I went to the States I drove from Kennesaw, GA.. to Hackensack, NJ.. and all the way back. (( I got a fine for speeding  )).... anyway ... I find US highway systems such a great plus for your country.

But .. you are right .. I have not driven on Indiana roads. It seems that there is no INTERSTATE close to Bloomington, IN ... at least not one crossing through out the town. The closest are I70 and I65... well that counts . kay:


----------



## mgk920

FM 2258 said:


> Why do so many people in this forum support the U.S. changing it's signage and converting to the metric system? I think our signs are fine and using miles, feet and inches on our highways works very well.
> 
> I hope we keep our signs the way they are because that's what makes our highway system so unique. It's easier for me to think in miles, feet and inches when it comes to driving. I also like our text based warning signs. They convey information more succinctly and efficiently if you know how to read the language. I've driven in Italy where they use the "international signage" and a lot of signs made me think "what the hell does that mean?" All I really needed to remember was that speed limit signs in Italy look like New Mexico state highway signs without the Zia flair.


OTOH, think of all of the times that, for example, Chicago Police officers have had to explain to motorists that those white square signs with the '50' on them on Cicero Ave in the city are *Illinois state highway route markers* and not speed limit signs....

It is VERY EASY to confuse the route markers in several states (like Illinois, Indiana, Massachusetts, Texas, etc) with USA standard speed limit signs.

I will give a whole-hearted 'Here Here!' when 'red circle' style speed limit signs become the USA's standard.

Mike


----------



## mgk920

ARGYRO said:


> Well ... I´m afraid I HAVE .. .. That´s why I say US have a great highway system. It is not perfect... but I find amazing how a big country like yours has such an organized road system. The last time I went to the States I drove from Kennesaw, GA.. to Hackensack, NJ.. and all the way back. (( I got a fine for speeding  )).... anyway ... I find US highway systems such a great plus for your country.
> 
> But .. you are right .. I have not driven on Indiana roads. It seems that there is no INTERSTATE close to Bloomington, IN ... at least not one crossing through out the town. The closest are I70 and I65... well that counts . kay:


I-69 is planned to be built near Bloomington, IN on its way between Indianapolis and Evansville within the next few years.

I do agree, though, away from the interstates, Indiana has crappy roads, mainly due to a severe lack of funding for the state's Department of Transportation (Indiana has a very low fuel tax).

BTW, gotta look out for those 'Deputy Dawg' corrupt small-town speed traps, they are a REAL problem in several states.

hno:

Mike


----------



## Xusein

I don't really like this Clearview font for the new highways. The font that the current signs have are classics.

However, it would be a great excuse for Connecticut to get new signage. 

It really is a shame to see the state of some of the signs here, some are barely readable at night even with hi-beams on! :doh:


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

LtBk said:


> Most knowledgeable drivers in the US according to GMAC:
> http://www.gmacinsurance.com/SafeDriving/2008/PressRelease.asp


I'm shocked FL isn't lower on the list because people drive like shit here. But that could be because the states at the bottom is where many people come from.



hoosier said:


> You clearly haven't driven on our roads.:lol:


The U.S. highway system isn't that bad, it's very organized and efficient. Only problem is there is a lot of maintenance to do and updating. Also seeing how your from Indiana your roads are in bad condition.


----------



## Rail Claimore

mgk920 said:


> OTOH, think of all of the times that, for example, Chicago Police officers have had to explain to motorists that those white square signs with the '50' on them on Cicero Ave in the city are *Illinois state highway route markers* and not speed limit signs....
> 
> It is VERY EASY to confuse the route markers in several states (like Illinois, Indiana, Massachusetts, Texas, etc) with USA standard speed limit signs.
> 
> I will give a whole-hearted 'Here Here!' when 'red circle' style speed limit signs become the USA's standard.
> 
> Mike


That's a huge cash cow for the city. Every time I went north on Cicero from Midway to I-55, I always saw at least two people pulled over and two more looking for speeders. I believe the actual speed limit on that stretch of road is 35.


----------



## Xusein

Our route markers are also squares and are shaped like the speed limit signs, but I've never heard of such a thing here.


----------



## snowman159

Rail Claimore said:


> That's a huge cash cow for the city. Every time I went north on Cicero from Midway to I-55, I always saw at least two people pulled over and two more looking for speeders. I believe the actual speed limit on that stretch of road is 35.


Oh come on. You have to be a complete moron to confuse a state route marker with a speed limit sign. If it doesn't say SPEED LIMIT in big letters, feel free to assume it's not a speed limit. 
Or you're not paying any attention at all while driving. Either way - serves 'em right. SCNR


----------



## hinto

ChrisZwolle said:


> Clearview!
> 
> Many people hate it, but I kinda like it, although it's not really necessary to replace the existing font since that one does it's job quite good (around the world).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by coredesatchikai


Count me among those who hate it. But if they're gonna switch over to Clearview, why did they leave the "Exit only" and the Interstate shield in the FHWA font? Now it just looks inconsistent.


----------



## Majestic

^^ Is that the new stack in San Antonio?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I'm not sure about the location, but I guess it's the I-10/I-610 interchange on the west side of Houston.


----------



## J N Winkler

No, that is the Dallas High Five (I-635/US 75) under construction--the HOV direct connector is the giveaway. It can't be I-10/I-610 because I-10 curves to the SE just to the west of the stack and then curves back east past it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Makes sense, because I remember the Dallas Hi5 has those colored pillars


----------



## Marek.kvackaj

ChrisZwolle said:


> Stackin' high.


one think why is not such intersection possible to be builded in Europe? cose W Europe around Germany, Netherland ... has much higher population living on that area...

one will guess is due environmental factors or?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Because our freeways are usually not an urban grid, so there's less need for full-scale stack interchanges. usually one or two fly-overs will do.


----------



## RawLee

How come there is so much slang and abbreviation on those signs?


----------



## Xusein

Marek.kvackaj said:


> one think why is not such intersection possible to be builded in Europe? cose W Europe around Germany, Netherland ... has much higher population living on that area...
> 
> one will guess is due environmental factors or?





ChrisZwolle said:


> Because our freeways are usually not an urban grid, so there's less need for full-scale stack interchanges. usually one or two fly-overs will do.


This is why you don't see much of these in the Northeast US, plus our highways tend to be older, the weather is worse, and the land is much more expensive. Only one "real" stack interchange in my state, and it's only half-used.


----------



## FM 2258

RawLee said:


> How come there is so much slang and abbreviation on those signs?


The abbreviations save space because there are a lot of boulevards, drives, roads and streets. F.M. means "farm to market." What is the slang you're talking about?


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

ChrisZwolle said:


> Stackin' high.


That is an old pic of the H5, it was further along when I moved back to Florida in 2005 from Dallas. That thing is truly massive! I wish we could have something decent like that here.


From flickr...

by ecrosstexas









by ecrosstexas









by loft42









by loft42









by austrini


----------



## Xusein

Texas is crazy. I wouldn't mind driving on those crazy flyovers if I ever am down there.


----------



## Xusein

FM 2258 said:


> The abbreviations save space because there are a lot of boulevards, drives, roads and streets. F.M. means "farm to market." What is the slang you're talking about?


Why do they have "farm to market" roads in urban parts of Texas? I never got that.


----------



## FM 2258

Xusein said:


> Why do they have "farm to market" roads in urban parts of Texas? I never got that.


Because in the old days they used to be the rural areas of the state. Now you have highways like FM 1960 in Houston or FM 1325 here in Austin that makes you wonder, "where the **** are the farms?"  

As you can tell by my user name, I'm fascinated by Texas farm roads. They have high speed limits, they're all paved and they take you to the most beautiful and unseen parts of Texas. 

Here is a write-up about the Farm Roads of Texas: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farm-to-market_road


To make this relevant to the Interstate thread. I always found it interesting that the signs on a freeway differ drastically from the signs when you leave the freeway. You get an "F.M." on the big board, and then a Texas shape on the actual sign as you can almost see in this picture:

F.M. 1695 & F.M. 3148 on the freeway, JCT 1695 and 3148 Texas shaped signs on the frontage road.


----------



## pwalker

I love that Texas has kept the F.M. signifiers. Despite many routes that have nothing to do with "farm to market", it keeps a little bit of history in place, and that is totally cool. Plus, it is unique among U.S. States. I dig that Texas has its own sets of rules, and they stick with 'em.


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## Timon91

I've never heard of those FM roads. Sounds interesting! Does anyone have more pics of those roads?


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## pwalker

Timon91 said:


> I've never heard of those FM roads. Sounds interesting! Does anyone have more pics of those roads?


Well, that's just it...these old FM roads have turned into major routes that have nothing to do with their original intentions. So they look like any other highway. The only "romance" is that originally they were built to haul goods into the city. Today, they look like any other road.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Isn't the northern beltway of San Antonio also an FM-road?

There are also RM roads; Ranch-to-Market. Every damn road in Texas is numbered.


----------



## FM 2258

ChrisZwolle said:


> Isn't the northern beltway of San Antonio also an FM-road?
> 
> There are also RM roads; Ranch-to-Market. Every damn road in Texas is numbered.


It used to be a Farm Road but they changed it to a Loop highway. FM 1604 is now Loop 1604. I don't like driving on Loop 1604 to be honest.


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## Xusein

^^ Thanks for the info, sounds very interesting.


----------



## RawLee

FM 2258 said:


> The abbreviations save space


In this for example,I see no reason to cut 4 letters out:










Or here 2:












> What is the slang you're talking about?


For example,"thru".


----------



## J N Winkler

RawLee said:


> In this for example, I see no reason to cut 4 letters out . . .


That example has four digits. The abbreviation "F.M." is necessary for FM roads which have just one digit--and let me assure you, they do exist. "F.M." has to appear on shields regardless of digit count so that a FM shield can always be recognized as such.



> Or here 2 . . .


There is nothing wrong with spelling "Rd" out since "Road" will fit, and that is often done elsewhere. It is completely up to the designer, but in general use of abbreviations is encouraged where this will save sign panel area while still enabling the message to be understood easily.



> For example,"thru".


"Thru" has fewer letters than "Through" and saves on sign panel area. For a two-line sign with legend consisting of "THRU"/"TRAFFIC," use of the abbreviation means the width of the sign is controlled by "TRAFFIC" rather than "THROUGH" and is shorter overall.


----------



## architect77

See my first post in "Highway Fonts" why I think North Carolina does highway signage better than any other state.

Also, what is it that is totally reversed when exiting Texas interstates? I remember slamming on the brakes or not having to stop at all where you intuitively want to do so.


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## ChrisZwolle

The BQE. It's hated, but also vital to the area.


----------



## mgk920

^^
'BQE' = Brooklyn-Queens Expressway (I-278) in Brooklyn, NYC.

That image is taken from the Brooklyn Bridge.

Mike


----------



## JohnFlint1985

ChrisZwolle said:


> The BQE. It's hated, but also vital to the area.


it is not as bad as some may think. It is busy there, but not in a way that you cannot use it anymore. Brooklyn Bridge entrance is quite normal. one part that is particularly bad is Gawanus expy


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I've read something about putting the Gowanus underground. Might be a good idea, but only if the capacity is also expanded, it's a bit of a waste to spend billions without actually improving the situation.


----------



## JohnFlint1985

ChrisZwolle said:


> I've read something about putting the Gowanus underground. Might be a good idea, but only if the capacity is also expanded, it's a bit of a waste to spend billions without actually improving the situation.


Well it is a swell idea to make it bigger and take it away underground since it is a sore in the eye for sure. But in this economic environment and with so many NIMBYs in NYC going to "die" on the spot if someone openly will mention such a "travesty" I hardly see it as a possibility. Though the idea of another "Big dig" is a good idea for such a congested and ugly place.

here are a few thoughts about this topic

http://www.nycroads.com/roads/gowanus/


----------



## Xusein

I-278 in general may be the worst interstate in the country, IMO.


----------



## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> I've read something about putting the Gowanus underground. Might be a good idea, but only if the capacity is also expanded, it's a bit of a waste to spend billions without actually improving the situation.


Capacity expansion of the Gowanus would make sense only if it were complemented by expansion elsewhere in the system--otherwise it's a question of billions spent just to move bottlenecks.

There are already precedents for spending billions of dollars in like-for-like replacements which don't add capacity. The east span for the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge is costing more than $5.2 billion to replace and will have no added capacity beyond a bike lane. The west span is not being replaced, which makes it pointless to rebuild the east span with added capacity for motor vehicles.


----------



## Rasputin1970

J N Winkler said:


> Capacity expansion of the Gowanus would make sense only if it were complemented by expansion elsewhere in the system--otherwise it's a question of billions spent just to move bottlenecks.
> 
> There are already precedents for spending billions of dollars in like-for-like replacements which don't add capacity. The east span for the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge is costing more than $5.2 billion to replace and will have no added capacity beyond a bike lane. The west span is not being replaced, which makes it pointless to rebuild the east span with added capacity for motor vehicles.


They are rebuilding it primarily due to being inadequate seismically, not to add capacity. It is long known that Bay bridge will be demolished by any major earthquake in the area and there is a fault right under it.


----------



## hoosier

J N Winkler said:


> Capacity expansion of the Gowanus would make sense only if it were complemented by expansion elsewhere in the system--otherwise it's a question of billions spent just to move bottlenecks.
> 
> There are already precedents for spending billions of dollars in like-for-like replacements which don't add capacity. The east span for the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge is costing more than $5.2 billion to replace and will have no added capacity beyond a bike lane. The west span is not being replaced, which makes it pointless to rebuild the east span with added capacity for motor vehicles.


It's impossible to replace the West span. Not only would it involve tearing down an historic structure, you would have to destroy blocks of DT San Francisco for a new approach. The SF-Oakland Bay Bridge has 10 traffic lanes, which is plenty. Commuters should take BART if they don't like the traffic on the Bay Bridge.


----------



## hoosier

JohnFlint1985 said:


> Well it is a swell idea to make it bigger and take it away underground since it is a sore in the eye for sure. But in this economic environment and with so many NIMBYs in NYC going to "die" on the spot if someone openly will mention such a "travesty" I hardly see it as a possibility. Though the idea of another "Big dig" is a good idea for such a congested and ugly place.
> 
> here are a few thoughts about this topic
> 
> http://www.nycroads.com/roads/gowanus/


Put the Gowanus underground and a fourth lane in each direction. That way you get rid of a polluting eyesore, reconnect Brooklyn to its waterfront, and add capacity.

Now is the perfect time to perform infrastructure projects. It would put people back to work and the project itself would benefit the community.


----------



## Rasputin1970

hoosier said:


> Put the Gowanus underground and a fourth lane in each direction. That way you get rid of a polluting eyesore, reconnect Brooklyn to its waterfront, and add capacity.
> 
> Now is the perfect time to perform infrastructure projects. It would put people back to work and the project itself would benefit the community.


I am all for it - you just have a very little job to sell this idea to NYC bosses


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Dallas, Texas


----------



## Majestic

I like that sunken highway which I presume is US-75.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Birmingham, Alabama's new northern beltline will be numbered *Interstate 422*


----------



## Majestic

ChrisZwolle said:


> Birmingham, Alabama's new northern beltline will be numbered *Interstate 422*


Will it be the continuation of I-22? Do you know if it's going to connect to I-65 or all the way to I-59?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Approximate routing:


----------



## Majestic

Thanks. I wonder how they are planning to deal with routing and NIMBY, there's quite some development along the planned corridors.


----------



## Timon91

It won't be as difficult as in the Netherlands


----------



## FM 2258

ChrisZwolle said:


> Approximate routing:





ChrisZwolle said:


> Birmingham, Alabama's new northern beltline will be numbered *Interstate 422*


I wonder why 422. I makes sense to make it a continuation of 459 according to the map.


----------



## mgk920

FM 2258 said:


> I wonder why 422. I makes sense to make it a continuation of 459 according to the map.


It does not feed back into I-459 on the east side, resulting in what would otherwise be a very awkward numbering situation.

Anyways, two separate numbers for different halves of a beltline is used elsewhere (see I-494/694 in the MStP area, for example).

Mike


----------



## FM 2258

mgk920 said:


> It does not feed back into I-459 on the east side, resulting in what would otherwise be a very awkward numbering situation.
> 
> Anyways, two separate numbers for different halves of a beltline is used elsewhere (see I-494/694 in the MStP area, for example).
> 
> Mike


Ok, I see. 422 will make sense. It's good to see that 22 will get some importance already having a loop in the works.


----------



## Xusein

Cool pic that I found on wikipedia.

It's the Alexander Hamilton Bridge in New York, which carries I-95 and US1 above the Harlem River from the Bronx into Manhattan. It is just a few minutes (bar traffic) from the even larger George Washington Bridge. Upper Manhattan is in the background. 









FULL SIZE: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Hambritrafficjeh.jpg


----------



## Nexis

I hate that Expressway , doesn't move above 25 mph all day long hno::bash:


----------



## LtBk

I wonder if the expressway system in NYC is ever going to be fixed.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

NYC actually has a lot of highways, just look at google and it's amazing how many they have. Of course they will have bad traffic as many are 6 lanes and well NYC is a huge city. On the contrary down here we have a bad highway system so our traffic is bad because of that.


----------



## insertnickhere

ChrisZwolle said:


> Atlanta stop-and-go traffic. Doesn't seem too bad though for such a large metropolitan area with a relatively limited freeway network. (the existing freeways are huge though)


its not the downtown you have to worry about, its going anywhere *from* there. good luck on that


----------



## ChrisZwolle

LtBk said:


> I wonder if the expressway system in NYC is ever going to be fixed.


They need to be realigned and updated. Now capacity stops at 120,000 AADT on six lanes, while 180,000 is technically possible.


----------



## pwalker

ChrisZwolle said:


> They need to be realigned and updated. Now capacity stops at 120,000 AADT on six lanes, while 180,000 is technically possible.


I agree, the need to realign and update is there, but the reality is it would be a monumental task due to the density of the NYC metro area. I can't imagine how many residents and businesses would have to be moved to rebuild the system, not to mention the cost.


----------



## hoosier

ChrisZwolle said:


> Birmingham, Alabama's new northern beltline will be numbered *Interstate 422*


Is that road even necessary? Do you know the timetable for its construction?


----------



## ttownfeen

hoosier said:


> Is that road even necessary? Do you know the timetable for its construction?


Officially, by 2025-2030. Which means they'll be finishing construction sometime around 2100.


----------



## hoosier

So I read today that the Highway Trust Fund will need around an $8 billion infusion to prevent it from going broke and forcing states to suspend bridge and highway projects. 

CAN WE FINALLY RAISE THE GAS TAX!!! THIS IS RIDICULOUS!!:bash:


----------



## OakRidge

hoosier said:


> CAN WE FINALLY RAISE THE GAS TAX!!! THIS IS RIDICULOUS!!:bash:


No thanks.


----------



## HAWC1506

hoosier said:


> So I read today that the Highway Trust Fund will need around an $8 billion infusion to prevent it from going broke and forcing states to suspend bridge and highway projects.
> 
> CAN WE FINALLY RAISE THE GAS TAX!!! THIS IS RIDICULOUS!!:bash:


Yeah seriously, Americans need to stop complaining. Our gas prices are low enough as it is, but then people want all these projects and are not willing to pay for them. No wonder the infrastructure is in ruins. No long term thinking at all.

And btw, I can say that because I'm an American.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

I'd rather pay a flat amount of tax per year lets say on registration or something. Gas prices change too much so of course the popularity will be low. Our gas prices may be low compared to lets say Europe but we also drive much more than that conitnent. I get gas about every week and a half or so, that's because I have a short commute to school and work with some highway mileage but mostly city in considerable traffic. Now imagine those who commute further distances or those who drive around in their business, gas can get pretty expensive for them. The tax would have to be raised considerably to European levels to even make a difference which would anger people even more, not the solution.


----------



## J N Winkler

I-275westcoastfl said:


> I'd rather pay a flat amount of tax per year, let's say on registration or something.


That really wouldn't work for the paycheck-to-paycheck folk, who would have to find a few hundred dollars to pay a road use fee in a lump sum.



> Gas prices change too much so of course the popularity will be low. Our gas prices may be low compared to lets say Europe but we also drive much more than that continent.


Not really. Annual mileages per regular driver are actually very similar, though single-car households are much more the norm and people are accustomed to budgeting larger amounts of money for car usage.



> I get gas about every week and a half or so, that's because I have a short commute to school and work with some highway mileage but mostly city in considerable traffic. Now imagine those who commute further distances or those who drive around in their business, gas can get pretty expensive for them.


People who commute for long distances can usually count on being able to do a higher proportion of it on the open road, when fuel efficiency is higher. Transport-dependent businesses usually pass on the cost of motor fuel (including tax) to their customers eventually.

Keep in mind that in most US states, the gasoline tax is not more than 50c per gallon--the base price of gasoline fluctuates much more than that in the course of a year. It has already increased by more than this from January to June of this year, for example. The gasoline tax would have to increase by a factor of three before it had a noticeable effect in smoothing out price fluctuations.



> The tax would have to be raised considerably to European levels to even make a difference which would anger people even more, not the solution.


I disagree. There are some large states (e.g. Florida, Texas, Georgia) where raising the gasoline tax is seen as a political "third rail," but there are plenty of others where the public supports gasoline tax increases. In those states the increases tend to be visibly linked to lists of projects which the increases will fund.

It makes much more sense to increase the gasoline tax than to use registration fees or tolls as funding mechanisms because (1) it is cheap to collect, (2) it is paid in small amounts at the pump instead of in a lump sum which strains household budgets, and (3) the amount of tax paid is proportional to use. Moreover, as a driver you can give yourself a tax cut, and save money on gasoline as well, simply by driving a more fuel-efficient car.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

OakRidge said:


> No thanks.


Any other ideas on how to fund the road infrastructure maintenance and upgrade? Something tells me you would be against the tolls or increased vehicle registration fees either. So, where would the money come from, my friend?


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## sonysnob

^America is great.

Citizens who want the best services the world has to offer.
Citizens who don't want to pay for them.

No wonder the financial system is failing.


----------



## Xusein

We lost a golden opportunity to raise fuel taxes in the fall and winter, when the price of gas was plummeting well below $2, but the memory of $4 gas was still fresh. A bump in the federal tax probably to 50 cents/gal or so would have not made much of a blow in sentiment because of the memory, and the relatively low prices that was seen back then. 

In December, when I filled up at $1.63...it would raise up to $1.95 if the federal tax was raised to 50 cents ($1.63-0.18=$1.45+0.5=1.95). That would still have been cheap in the eyes of this consumer that experienced paying $4.49 in June 08. And more could have been done because the federal fuel tax would have been almost tripled, so there would be more money in their coffers for these projects.

But now....forget it. People have gotten used to the relatively cheaper prices of the last few months that even the "spike" seen in the last weeks is seen as amazing, even though we dealt with worse this time last year. If the fuel tax was raised to 50 cents, the price of gas would go well above $3/gallon and would be considered unacceptable to the public. Like I said...an opportunity was lost. You raise the gas tax when gas is cheap.


----------



## JohnFlint1985

Xusein said:


> We lost a golden opportunity to raise fuel taxes in the fall and winter, when the price of gas was plummeting well below $2, but the memory of $4 gas was still fresh. A bump in the federal tax probably to 50 cents/gal or so would have not made much of a blow in sentiment because of the memory, and the relatively low prices that was seen back then.
> 
> In December, when I filled up at $1.63...it would raise up to $1.95 if the federal tax was raised to 50 cents ($1.63-0.18=$1.45+0.5=1.95). That would still have been cheap in the eyes of this consumer that experienced paying $4.49 in June 08. And more could have been done because the federal fuel tax would have been almost tripled, so there would be more money in their coffers for these projects.
> 
> But now....forget it. People have gotten used to the relatively cheaper prices of the last few months that even the "spike" seen in the last weeks is seen as amazing, even though we dealt with worse this time last year. If the fuel tax was raised to 50 cents, the price of gas would go well above $3/gallon and would be considered unacceptable to the public. Like I said...an opportunity was lost. You raise the gas tax when gas is cheap.


raising taxes is a big political issue - no one will do it now. too much other things are at stake - medical coverage for example. not everything can be done at once.


----------



## Xusein

Well, there will be a time when we will have to deal with the consequences of neglecting our infrastructure, and the funding for it. I understand that there is plenty of problems to tackle, but infrastructure should be one of the biggest priorities IMHO.


----------



## konrakfon

*[USA] United States Highway*

All Pictures From www.aaroads.com/midwest , www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic , www.aaroads.com/delaware , www.aaroads.com/texas , www.aaroads.com/southeast , www.rockymountainroads.com , www.northeastroads.com , www.southeastroads.com , www.westcoastroads.com

----------------------------------

Contents

Interstate 4 (....... Post)


----------



## konrakfon

*Interstate 4*

Interstate 4 Eastbound at Florida State
Interstate 4 Eastbound - Hillsborough County
Interstate 4 East 










The eastbound beginning of Interstate 4 from the perspective of the Interstate 275 northbound ramp (Exit 45B). Advance notice is given to drivers of the Exit 1 split-diamond interchange with Florida 585 (21st & 22nd Street). A right-tab was added during the Interstate 4 reconstruction as eastbound traffic drove on the old westbound lanes, resulting in a temporary left-hand exit, as the on-ramp entered from the left.1 The tab was removed by fall 2007. Photo taken 08/25/07.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

We already have a 3000 + replies topic about the US Interstates.


----------



## konrakfon

*Interstate 4*

Interstate 4 Eastbound at Florida State

From www.southeastroads.com

Interstate 4 Eastbound - Hillsborough County
Interstate 4 East 










The eastbound beginning of Interstate 4 from the perspective of the Interstate 275 northbound ramp (Exit 45B). Advance notice is given to drivers of the Exit 1 split-diamond interchange with Florida 585 (21st & 22nd Street). A right-tab was added during the Interstate 4 reconstruction as eastbound traffic drove on the old westbound lanes, resulting in a temporary left-hand exit, as the on-ramp entered from the left.1 The tab was removed by fall 2007. Photo taken 08/25/07.


----------



## konrakfon

Traveling from Interstate 275 south onto Interstate 4 east with the one-mile overhead for Florida 585 (Exit 1). Photo taken 10/16/07.


----------



## konrakfon

The southbound ramp from Interstate 275 to Interstate 4 east represents the highest level of the stack interchange between the two freeways. Photo taken 10/16/07.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Hotlinking doesn't seem to work. You might as well give a link to the appropriate AAroads site.


----------



## konrakfon

Both ramps from Interstate 275 combine and Interstate 4 eastbound is born. Pictured here is the 0.25-mile overhead for Florida 585. Florida 585 partitions into a one-way street couplet through YBor City. Northbound follows 22nd Street; southbound follows 21st Street. The split-alignment exists between Florida 60 (Adamo Drive) at the Crosstown Expressway northward to 23rd Avenue. Photo taken 11/10/07.


----------



## Snowguy716

This video isn't all that great, but you get to hear how bad our roads are in Minnesota due to the harsh winters and lack of investment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR-9CWJkdSk

This is a good tour along I-94 through St. Paul and Minneapolis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrRay7MGFq0


----------



## hoosier

The federal gas tax hasn't been raised in over 15 years. Meanwhile, the costs of road repair and maintenance have SKYROCKETED over that time. The gas tax needs to be raised or the federal government should just fund highways out of general revenues. SOMETHING has to be done. Patchwork fixes and yearly infusions of money from the general fund isn't going to cut it.


----------



## hoosier

Also, raising the gas tax would encourage the production of more fuel efficient vehicles and less driving. While this will negatively impact revenues for highways, less driving= less need for maintenance and repair. Furthermore, encouraging people to use more mass transit is a great idea, which raising the gas tax would do.


----------



## JohnFlint1985

Xusein said:


> Well, there will be a time when we will have to deal with the consequences of neglecting our infrastructure, and the funding for it. I understand that there is plenty of problems to tackle, but infrastructure should be one of the biggest priorities IMHO.





hoosier said:


> Also, raising the gas tax would encourage the production of more fuel efficient vehicles and less driving. While this will negatively impact revenues for highways, less driving= less need for maintenance and repair. Furthermore, encouraging people to use more mass transit is a great idea, which raising the gas tax would do.


Don't get me wrong - I think we have to do it. But I am just trying to look realistically at the list of things that are being done as we speak and I see everything with such a huge tail of problems that I hardly can imagine Obama (he is only human) can handle all of these. He just started and he already is facing with huge nut to crack as his inheritance: Health care and SS reform - these are two huge and enormously expensive things to do on top of 2 billion deficit that we already have. And mind something else: everyone in Europe is announcing that we are dying and dollar is done with. I just don't see how can we do all this now on the borrowed dime from China. If you know something that I don't please share it with me so I can share your ideas.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

hoosier said:


> Also, raising the gas tax would encourage the production of more fuel efficient vehicles and less driving. While this will negatively impact revenues for highways, less driving= less need for maintenance and repair. Furthermore, encouraging people to use more mass transit is a great idea, which raising the gas tax would do.


This would be nice if only that were true. For the most part people have cut back on driving as much as they can, even then most of the cities in the US have a pathetic mass transit system so that isn't even an option. It would have negative impacts for many people.


----------



## Xusein

JohnFlint1985 said:


> Don't get me wrong - I think we have to do it. But I am just trying to look realistically at the list of things that are being done as we speak and I see everything with such a huge tail of problems that I hardly can imagine Obama (he is only human) can handle all of these. He just started and he already is facing with huge nut to crack as his inheritance: Health care and SS reform - these are two huge and enormously expensive things to do on top of 2 billion deficit that we already have. And mind something else: everyone in Europe is announcing that we are dying and dollar is done with. I just don't see how can we do all this now on the borrowed dime from China. If you know something that I don't please share it with me so I can share your ideas.


Well, a good way to get more revenue while not borrowing money is by...raising the fuel tax.


----------



## hoosier

I-275westcoastfl said:


> This would be nice if only that were true. For the most part people have cut back on driving as much as they can, even then most of the cities in the US have a pathetic mass transit system so that isn't even an option. It would have negative impacts for many people.


Well, expensive fuel would encourage the construction and improvement of mass transit systems. Either raise the gas tax to encourage mass transit expansion and usage or build the mass transit infrastructure first and then raise the gas tax.


----------



## hoosier

JohnFlint1985 said:


> Health care and SS reform - these are two huge and enormously expensive things to do on top of 2 billion deficit that we already have. And mind something else: everyone in Europe is announcing that we are dying and dollar is done with. I just don't see how can we do all this now on the borrowed dime from China. If you know something that I don't please share it with me so I can share your ideas.


Actually, Social Security is in pretty good shape and only needs minor tweaks. My proposal would be to have all wages subject to the payroll tax, not just those up to $94,100.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

No social security needs to go away, it will become to large of a burden as the majority of our population ages. We should be able to keep our money and invest it how we want to to protect our future. Social Security already has a pathetic payout and it will decrease over time and go away. If we eliminated it the budget would have a lot more money to work with such as improving highways.


----------



## J N Winkler

If you abolish Social Security, what is your plan for dealing with elderly people who starve? Not everyone makes net gains on his or her investments. Social Security was never meant to be an investment, although it has proved to be a remarkably successful one for people who started paying in early--it is a safety net.

Anyway, if the objective is to mobilize productive investment, abolishing Social Security is a bad choice because money spent on it is recycled through consumers and the financial markets and thus supports the economy directly. What would make sense is realignment of our defense budget so that we spend much less on materiél that never sees combat and much more on technologies which can be repurposed for peaceful civilian applications. Military Keynesianism as currently practiced does little more than resist the tendency of the rate of profit to fall, and is not systematically optimized to stimulate Schumpeterian innovation.


----------



## hoosier

mgk920 said:


> The money that goes in now goes right straight out as benefits.
> 
> Mike


That's the way the program has always worked. And you grossly overestimate the supposed insolvency of the program. Minor tweaks are needed. That's all. I already proposed a solution in an earlier post.


----------



## ttownfeen

Stuck in Bama said:


> ...but does it take really take 15-20 years in this day and age to build an 50-mile, six lane interstate??.


For ALDOT it does.


----------



## Xusein

Well, CT is worse. They've been working on one highway for almost 50 years and it's only half finished. Damn NIMBYs...


----------



## scalziand

^^ Are you talking about 6, 7, or 11?


----------



## Xusein

11, lol.


----------



## FM 2258

Stuck in Bama said:


> <snip> but does it take really take 15-20 years in this day and age to build an 50-mile, six lane interstate??.


No, not if it's a Texas Tollway.


----------



## Stuck in Bama

FM 2258 said:


> No, not if it's a Texas Tollway.


Well I kinda wish it was the case, we wouldnt be looking at a 2025 completion date.


----------



## ttownfeen

You and I both know a 2025 completion date is optimistic at best. Wasn't Corridor X supposed to be complete a decade ago?


----------



## Stuck in Bama

ttownfeen said:


> You and I both know a 2025 completion date is optimistic at best. Wasn't Corridor X supposed to be complete a decade ago?


Yup, and the 2012 completion date for Corridor X (I-22) is not set in stone either. Mississippi has had their portion completed since 1994. ALDOT has to be the worst transportation department in the nation.


----------



## hoosier

Stuck in Bama said:


> ALDOT has to be the worst transportation department in the nation.


No, INDOT (Indiana Department of Transportation) is the worst in the nation.

No road building/maintenance agency does less road building/maintenance than INDOT.


----------



## WonderlandPark

hoosier said:


> No road building/maintenance agency does less road building/maintenance than INDOT.


Except ODOT (Oregon)

And for heaven's sake, ban frigging studded tires already, especially when you don't maintain the roads.


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## FM 2258

It looks like other states are lacking but I think Texas has the best highway system in the country. Our Interstates are also the most well connected in the country with frequent exits and frontage roads. There's nothing sadder than driving for 10 miles without seeing an exit. That always seems weird to me when I drive in other states. 

Texas seems to put their Interstates in the front yard while the rest of the country puts them in the back.


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## I-275westcoastfl

I agree texas has one of the best highway systems in the country and the world, it's crazy how good the highways are there and how crappy they are here.


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## Xusein

Other than the impressive stack interchanges there, I'm not a big fan of Texas's highways. They are too aesthetically ugly, with those service roads that pretty much beg for nonstop development, as well as billboards everywhere.


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## Rail Claimore

Texas was wise to build most of its interstate and freeway mileage along previously-existing US routes. This helps to control the distribution of development in a way that zoning cannot, and it means that most Texas freeways were brownfield infrastructure projects, as opposed to greenfield ones that you find in most other states. As a result, it's easier to build new freeway capacity than it would be if such interstates were built on completely new paths.


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## HAWC1506

^^Agree with Xusein. Texas highways are simply too artificial and wasteful. They're just massive that's it, and only shows that Texas doesn't give a crap about other forms of transportation, thanks to unregulated sprawling developments.

If there's a great highway network, it's the German and Dutch Autobahns. No other highway system in the world has qualities as high as those.

I'll agree, Texas has a high-capacity, practical highway system. But in terms of being the best overall, I don't think it comes close to the best in the world.


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## Mr. Pollo

HAWC1506 said:


> ....If there's a great highway network, it's the German and Dutch Autobahns. *No other highway system in the world has qualities as high as those.*
> 
> I'll agree, Texas has a high-capacity, practical highway system. But in terms of being the best overall, I don't think it comes close to the best in the world.


what do you mean by qualities?

which parameters would you consider here? pavement? curves? slopes? design? visual impact?


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## ChrisZwolle

I never noticed how wide the I-5 just north of the I-805 in San Diego was...


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## ChrisZwolle

El Toro Y (I-405/I-5 California)


> After the project was completed in 1997, the El Toro Y stood as one of the widest roads in the world, at 26 traffic lanes wide.












The 26-lane claim seems a bit exaggerated, there are "only" like 12 mainline lanes, the rest are connector lanes, and the road to the left is not part of the freeway, but a parallel road to Bake Parkway.


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## ChrisZwolle

Recession has it's influence on traffic volumes.

The busiest road in the United States, I-405 near Seal Beach, California, has dropped from 392,000 AADT in 2007 to 374,000 AADT in 2008. Other freeways seems to have dropped in volume a bit too.


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## ttownfeen

Stuck in Bama said:


> Yup, and the 2012 completion date for Corridor X (I-22) is not set in stone either. Mississippi has had their portion completed since 1994. ALDOT has to be the worst transportation department in the nation.


I think it has to do with the Gordian knot of a bureaucracy we have down in Montgomery. Once ALDOT starts a project, they get it done fairly quickly and the results are always top-notch.


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## ChrisZwolle

*California 2007 - 2008 AADT comparison*

Check this list:









I made this list using the 2007 and 2008 AADT XLS files from the Caltrans Traffic data branch.

It's visible the recession seems to have it's effect on traffic volumes, overall, they seem to drop around 2 - 3% on most of the busiests spots. However, the I-405 volumes on through Fountain Valley and Huntington Beach seem to decrease incredibly. This is hardly natural.

There are a few options to explain this:

1) Recession hit that area harder than other places - unlikely
2) 2007 AADT estimates were higher than the actual traffic - could be
3) 2008 AADT estimates were lower than the actual traffic - could be
4) significant roadworks in 2008 along I-405 - likely, not verified yet.
5) rerouting of traffic - unlikely, there are no alternatives opened afaik


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## zeljkoserbiagreece

americans you have very nice bankin system,but i have to say that you dont have clean highways,but anyways:cheers:


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## Stuck in Bama

ttownfeen said:


> I think it has to do with the Gordian knot of a bureaucracy we have down in Montgomery. Once ALDOT starts a project, they get it done fairly quickly and the results are always top-notch.


True, I just bitch about projects that have been delayed time and time again, and its usually in the urban areas. Corridor X is a great example of what ALDOT can do when given the chance, but roadbuilding in this state is political through and through. 

Is it true also that billboards are not allowed on Corridor X (I-22)?.


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## Fortyfiver

When I first came to the USA (over 30 years ago) I thought it strange, and destructive, that interstate highways were routed through city centers and not around the cities, as in Europe. This must have been expensive in terms of land acquisition, and divisive, in that a barrier is created within the city, where none existed before. All this has been said many times before, I know, and what's done is done. I guess this is what FM 2258 means when he says that TX puts its interstates in the front yard.

As to the exits being close together, this is true even in rural areas in most of Texas. This defeats the primary purpose of an interstate highway, which is to facilitate long-distance traffic. Using interstates to drive five miles causes congestion, and is unnecessary when local roads are available (as they generally are in all but west Texas), but I suppose having many local exits is a sweetener to small communities along an interstate who might have objected to the road if they didn't have easy access. One more instance of local interests trumping the general good in Texas, alas.


----------



## Fortyfiver

And furthermore...
The surface of I-35 between Austin and Dallas is in terrible shape. No doubt this is due to the very heavy pounding it receives from the intense truck traffic between the midwest and the border, on a highway which is still mostly 2x2. Yes, I know that a third lane is painfully inching its way north towards Belton, but even then there will be a long way to go. Of course neither the federal government nor the State of Texas has increased its gasoline tax since about 1993, so highway funds are about exhausted. Even worse, thanks to a recent f*ck-up by our esteemed state legislature, TxDoT (the state department of transportation) may cease to exist next year! Perhaps there will be some federal economic stimulus money available to repair and widen this highway, provided always that our governor deigns to accept it (by no means a sure bet).


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## HAWC1506

Mr. Pollo said:


> what do you mean by qualities?
> 
> which parameters would you consider here? pavement? curves? slopes? design? visual impact?


All of the above. In my opinion, most U.S. highways, especially those in Texas and California, fall behind in all those categories. Neither good pavement, nor wide curve radii, nor small enough grades that give you superb visibility, nor any effort at blending in with the surrounding environment.

One thing is better though, and that's capacity.


----------



## spacetweek

Stuck in Bama said:


> Yup, and the 2012 completion date for Corridor X (I-22) is not set in stone either. Mississippi has had their portion completed since 1994. ALDOT has to be the worst transportation department in the nation.


I thought this was under construction though? The tie-in with I-65?

In which case it's a sure thing. I'd be more worried about Tennessee's end, which isn't slated to be hooked up to I-269 (Memphis Outer Beltway) for years and years.


----------



## ttownfeen

Stuck in Bama said:


> True, I just bitch about projects that have been delayed time and time again, and its usually in the urban areas. Corridor X is a great example of what ALDOT can do when given the chance, but roadbuilding in this state is political through and through.
> 
> Is it true also that billboards are not allowed on Corridor X (I-22)?.


Yes, I recall hearing about that or something similar to it.



spacetweek said:


> I thought this was under construction though? The tie-in with I-65?
> 
> In which case it's a sure thing. I'd be more worried about Tennessee's end, which isn't slated to be hooked up to I-269 (Memphis Outer Beltway) for years and years.


The completion of Corridor X to 65 is set, but the completion date is not. Delays are bound to occur.


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## ChrisZwolle

Salt Lake City also has some pretty wide freeways, especially the I-15, which is not weird considering almost all of the Utah population lives along this freeway.


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## ChrisZwolle

Big accident on I-85 in northeast Atlanta.









Big accidents mean big backups.


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## DanielFigFoz

^^ I'm glad I wasn't on the I-85.


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## ChrisZwolle

Nice picture of I-35 in Laredo, Texas.








source


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## ChrisZwolle

The cute 2.5 mile inner loop of Rochester, NY. Gotta be one of the shortest beltways in the world.


----------



## Majestic

^^ Hilarious one. Charlotte also has a very compact downtown loop yet it's in no way comparable to this one.


----------



## weava

Kansas City also has a small downtown freeway loop


----------



## HAWC1506

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nice picture of I-35 in Laredo, Texas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> source


I don't think us Americans have figured out that it's better to have an onramp after the offramp...


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## J N Winkler

HAWC1506 said:


> I don't think us Americans have figured out that it's better to have an onramp after the offramp...


TxDOT does use braided ramps extensively, but they require structures and so tend to be confined to locations which would otherwise have serious weaving problems.


----------



## DanielFigFoz

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nice picture of I-35 in Laredo, Texas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> source


Nice picture indeed. That area is a quite despleasing to the eye though.


----------



## Paddington

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nice picture of I-35 in Laredo, Texas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> source


God damn that's ugly.


----------



## Danielk2

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nice picture of I-35 in Laredo, Texas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> source


That's quite dangerous with an onramp before the offramp. Have you americans heard of this new european thing we call "Safety"? :lol:


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## hoosier

Danielk2 said:


> That's quite dangerous with an onramp before the offramp. Have you americans heard of this new european thing we call "Safety"? :lol:


Yes we have, unfortunately it costs money, and American governments are notoriously cheap bastards when it comes to spending money on the general welfare. Now when it comes to throwing money into fancy weapons systems and tax cuts, no country is better than the USA!!!!


----------



## hoosier

ChrisZwolle said:


> Salt Lake City also has some pretty wide freeways, especially the I-15, which is not weird considering almost all of the Utah population lives along this freeway.


Salt Lake City had its freeway system improved greatly in the run up to the 2002 Winter Olympics.


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## hoosier

Rep. Jim Oberstar of Minnesota released his draft of the six-year federal transportation bill last week. It's pricetag is $450 billion, a 57% increase over the $286.5 billion bill that Bush signed in 2005 and expires later this year. 

The Obama administration lopped off its balls and doesn't want the bill to be passed until 2011, because they are too chickenshit to raise the gas tax to help pay for it. The draft of the bill has $337 billion for roads and $99 billion for transit. It would also create a national infrastructure bank to help fund transportation improvements across the country.


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## ADCS

DanielFigFoz said:


> Nice picture indeed. That area is a quite despleasing to the eye though.


Yeah, that's what happens when suburban development hits rural Texas interstates. Never looks very good.

This section of interstate is actually pretty interesting - the flyover in the distance is where State Loop 20 hits I-35. Much of the truck traffic coming from Mexico into the 20 mile trade zone takes this route, since the I-35 route through downtown Laredo is somewhat lacking in sheer throughput. Much of the construction and infrastructure is in anticipation of Mexican trucking being allowed on the entire National Highway System, but these bills have been consistently been shot down in Congress over environmental and competition issues.

This all being said, downtown Laredo is very nice - dense and vibrant, owing to much of the foot traffic that crosses over from Nuevo Laredo, Tamaulipas. It certainly shows much of its Mexican influence, but is undoubtedly American.


----------



## hoosier

Here's a link to Transport for America's breakdown of the draft transportation bill:

http://t4america.org/blog/2009/06/18/some-details-on-chairman-oberstars-summary-of-his-bill-outline/

I hope Oberstar doesn't back down from Obama and gets this important piece of legislation passed this year.


----------



## ADCS

hoosier said:


> Rep. Jim Oberstar of Minnesota released his draft of the six-year federal transportation bill last week. It's pricetag is $450 billion, a 57% increase over the $286.5 billion bill that Bush signed in 2005 and expires later this year.
> 
> The Obama administration lopped off its balls and doesn't want the bill to be passed until 2011, because they are too chickenshit to raise the gas tax to help pay for it. The draft of the bill has $337 billion for roads and $99 billion for transit. It would also create a national infrastructure bank to help fund transportation improvements across the country.


Raising consumptive taxes in a recessionary economy is both political and economic suicide. Unfortunately, it also has to be done. 2011 gets them past the midterm elections, which will be the last one with the current congressional district lines (redistricting after the 2010 Census, current lines generally demographically favor Republicans in swing states). Crappy, but that's politics for you.

Hopefully this draft isn't gutted too much and significantly enhances infrastructure expenditures. Lord knows we need it - infrastructure, when applied properly, is as good of an indirect investment as we can make, and a sizable economic engine.


----------



## hoosier

ADCS said:


> Raising consumptive taxes in a recessionary economy is both political and economic suicide. Unfortunately, it also has to be done. 2011 gets them past the midterm elections, which will be the last one with the current congressional district lines (redistricting after the 2010 Census, current lines generally demographically favor Republicans in swing states). Crappy, but that's politics for you.
> 
> Hopefully this draft isn't gutted too much and significantly enhances infrastructure expenditures. Lord knows we need it - infrastructure, when applied properly, is as good of an indirect investment as we can make, and a sizable economic engine.


Well, the Economist said that congestion pricing could be an alternative form of financing. I don't know how that would work, perhaps by installing cameras to take pictures of automobile license plates as they enter the city center on a freeway. The public just has to be made aware that an increase in the gas tax or a congestion charge would be accompanied by major investments in mass transit and high speed rail, giving them alternatives to driving.

Here is an article in the LA Times by conservative GOP pollster Frank Luntz stating that according to his research, 81% of Americans support raising taxes to increase infrastructure spending: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-luntz23-2009jan23,0,2761866.story


----------



## ttownfeen

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nice picture of I-35 in Laredo, Texas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> source


Nice picture. Downtown Laredo and Neuvo Laredo is the opposite direction. It's a nice looking town.


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## ChrisZwolle

How much maintenance do they actually do on freeways in the U.S.? Many Interstates seem to have the same concrete pavement as they did when they were constructed in the 1950's/1960's.


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## ADCS

hoosier said:


> Well, the Economist said that congestion pricing could be an alternative form of financing. I don't know how that would work, perhaps by installing cameras to take pictures of automobile license plates as they enter the city center on a freeway. The public just has to be made aware that an increase in the gas tax or a congestion charge would be accompanied by major investments in mass transit and high speed rail, giving them alternatives to driving.
> 
> Here is an article in the LA Times by conservative GOP pollster Frank Luntz stating that according to his research, 81% of Americans support raising taxes to increase infrastructure spending: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-luntz23-2009jan23,0,2761866.story


It would be interesting to see how that question was worded in that poll. There's a world of difference between "Do you generally support the increase of public revenue to improve infrastructure, such as roads, bridges, water works and transit?" and "Do you think the government should raise taxes to pay for projects like rail, buses and other forms of mass public transportation?" Freeways, of course, being a form of mass transit.

Workable congestion charges run into problems from suburban residents, such as what we've seen in NYC from their CC plans. Of course, the part that is rarely mentioned is that most people driving into Manhattan already pay a sort of congestion charge through bridge tolls - it's just that those revenues go to the Port Authority of NY/NJ instead of the MTA. 

Americans also by and large strongly oppose placing tolls on previously free roads, even simply on reliever routes. Plans in Pennsylvania, Wyoming and Texas have met significant opposition from both residents and interstate traffic, including the trucking industry, which has a significant lobby in Congress. A reliever toll road in Houston for I-45 North struggled to keep up with projected revenue until a direct connection to the airport was built; people would rather just stay on the Interstate and tough out the traffic than pay the tolls.

I think vignettes for trucks may be a better option, progressively scaled based on annual mileage (the ones who use the roads the most should pay the most), but that has political problems as well.

Finally, when it comes to the gas tax, this simply must be raised, but considerations have to be made as to what the new "baseline" gas price will be. Simply hiking the hell out of it is a dangerous game to play and is most likely politically impossible. Figuring out that 2.25/gal or something like that is going to be the consistent level of gasoline price and raising taxes to bring in the same revenue when it was 1.30/gal is likely the most expedient and feasible means of increase.


----------



## ADCS

ChrisZwolle said:


> How much maintenance do they actually do on freeways in the U.S.? Many Interstates seem to have the same concrete pavement as they did when they were constructed in the 1950's/1960's.


Depends on the state. Texas generally reconstructs the road every 25-30 years, with some exceptions (a segment of I-45 south of Buffalo, TX has its original concrete from 1969, still in good condition), while other states have gone as long as 45 years between reconstructions.

Usually, resurfacing with asphalt occurs every 10 years or so.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ADCS said:


> Workable congestion charges run into problems from suburban residents, such as what we've seen in NYC from their CC plans. Of course, the part that is rarely mentioned is that most people driving into Manhattan already pay a sort of congestion charge through bridge tolls - it's just that those revenues go to the Port Authority of NY/NJ instead of the MTA.


I believe the bridge tolls within New York are going to the MTA, but the New Jersey - New York connections are not.


----------



## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> How much maintenance do they actually do on freeways in the U.S.? Many Interstates seem to have the same concrete pavement as they did when they were constructed in the 1950's/1960's.


It depends on construction type, condition of surfacing, and whether traffic is growing robustly enough that the road will eventually need to be widened. Asphalt requires periodic resurfacing, but there are plenty of freeways with concrete surfaces over 40 years old which are still in good condition and are typically left alone unless the freeway needs to be widened. There have also been successful attempts in various places (including part of I-90 in Washington state) to build "perpetual" asphalt pavements, which are built with enough depth that they resist structural deformation and so will never need reconstruction as long as they receive periodic resurfacing.

In Kansas most freeways were built in concrete east of Salina, and in asphalt west of Salina, because good aggregate for concrete is more plentiful in the eastern part of the state. Interstate construction got underway in the mid-1950's and was essentially complete by 1970. In rural areas the original concrete surfaces performed mediocrely and in many places needed asphalt overlays to maintain ride quality. Eventually they were programmed for replacement through full-depth reconstruction, which occurred during the 1990's. Original slab depth was 8" to 10", but this was replaced with 12" slabs laid down to very strict surface profile standards. Because traffic volumes are unlikely to increase to the extent that widening is necessary, these reconstructed pavements are designed to last for the foreseeable future.

In Wichita, I-235 (completed 1965) still has its original concrete pavement, which continues to provide excellent ride quality.

In California, the state's first freeway (first called Arroyo Seco Parkway, then renamed Pasadena Freeway, now about to be the Arroyo Seco Parkway again) still has its original 70-year-old concrete pavement.


----------



## ADCS

ChrisZwolle said:


> I believe the bridge tolls within New York are going to the MTA, but the New Jersey - New York connections are not.


Turns out you're right, with the exception that the intrastate connections go to the NYCDOT, which of course raises a whole other set of issues.


----------



## Paddington

ADCS said:


> Yeah, that's what happens when suburban development hits rural Texas interstates. Never looks very good.
> 
> This section of interstate is actually pretty interesting - the flyover in the distance is where State Loop 20 hits I-35. Much of the truck traffic coming from Mexico into the 20 mile trade zone takes this route, since the I-35 route through downtown Laredo is somewhat lacking in sheer throughput. Much of the construction and infrastructure is in anticipation of Mexican trucking being allowed on the entire National Highway System, but these bills have been consistently been shot down in Congress over environmental and competition issues.
> 
> This all being said, downtown Laredo is very nice - dense and vibrant, owing to much of the foot traffic that crosses over from Nuevo Laredo, Tamaulipas. It certainly shows much of its Mexican influence, but is undoubtedly American.


Do you think most of urban Texas looks much different than that? I've travelled through Dallas and Houston pretty extensively and - outside of downtown - it basically looks like that, except even worse. There's just more lanes, more traffic, more Walmarts, more Motel 6's, more "El Loco Tacos" type places, all with big, ugly signs so that the person on the 16th lane of opposite side traffic can see it.


----------



## Xusein

That's what I meant earlier. Texas highways are very functional and do their job very well, but they are some of the ugliest highways in the entire country when it comes to what they attract as well as aesthetics alone.


----------



## Xusein

Danielk2 said:


> That's quite dangerous with an onramp before the offramp. Have you americans heard of this new european thing we call "Safety"? :lol:


Around here, exits are spaced to a level making this scenario rare. I can only think of one real exit where this situation is done (and it's horrible, yes), but it's in a not-busy area so it's not that dangerous at most times.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Xusein said:


> That's what I meant earlier. Texas highways are very functional and do their job very well, but they are some of the ugliest highways in the entire country when it comes to what they attract as well as aesthetics alone.


It would be better if there were more strict billboard restrictions, and a couple of malls instead one line of businesses.

The hub-and-spoke system of Houston has the advantage being efficient, but because of the larger distances to the freeways outside the central city means that you need wider freeways because more people are dependent on one freeway. It's basically a choice between 10 lane radial freeways, or a denser network of 6-lane freeways.


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## ChrisZwolle

About the road quality. Situations like this would be totally unacceptable in Europe.. You won't even find this in countries like Poland or Romania on freeways.

Location: I-43 near Milwaukee.


----------



## cristof

seeing the pics from US highways... i just dont understand why such big ads along freeway/highway are forbidden in most countries of Europe and allowed in USA? just asking...


----------



## GENIUS LOCI

Jacek2000 said:


> In Europe, there are only three-lane motorways without so high viaducts.


That's not true 
In many cities in Europe there are 4 or more lanes motorways; obviously they're not as usual as in America (Northern, Central and Southern)
There are even stack interchanges, but not as large as the ones you can see in U.S.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

cristof said:


> seeing the pics from US highways... i just dont understand why such big ads along freeway/highway are forbidden in most countries of Europe and allowed in USA? just asking...


I see you have never been to central/eastern Europe. :lol:


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## Danielk2

In Denmark, we have strict rules for advertising along motorways. Signs may not exceed a certain height determined by the local authorities, and can only contain the companys logo, no other information. But in other countries like France or Poland, you can't drive 3km without some big ugly billboard hno:


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## Xusein

cristof said:


> seeing the pics from US highways... i just dont understand why such big ads along freeway/highway are forbidden in most countries of Europe and allowed in USA? just asking...


It actually depends on where you go. A lot of towns around here ban them.

However, Hartford itself has too much.


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## mgk920

Xusein said:


> It actually depends on where you go. A lot of towns around here ban them.
> 
> However, Hartford itself has too much.


Billboard rules in the USA are generally done at the state level and below. Thus, some areas are more strict than others. Also, removing advertising billboards is not a simple matter of decreeing that they be gone - that would be considered to be a 'public taking' under the 5th Amendment of the USA's Constitution and their owners would all have to be compensated for them. The billboard companies also have VERY STRONG political lobbies in some states and the business is quite lucrative.

Mike


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## ChrisZwolle

billboards = customers = revenue. I don't think many politicians want to "kill" the retail businesses along freeways.


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## Danielk2

In Denmark the reason why we have those strict rules about advertising is to preserve our "beautiful nature" and also billboards distract drivers' attention for 2 or 3 secs. making it dangerous with too much information on a billboard.


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## Snowguy716

Most places also have such ordinances in the U.S, Danielk2... at least here in Minnesota, there are fewer billboards.

There used to be many more until I believe it was Betty Ford or one of the first ladies that made a campaign to get rid of them. Now they are restricted pretty much to interstates and then only sparingly.


----------



## Paddington

Danielk2 said:


> In Denmark, we have strict rules for advertising along motorways. Signs may not exceed a certain height determined by the local authorities, and can only contain the companys logo, no other information. But in other countries like France or Poland, you can't drive 3km without some big ugly billboard hno:


In Texas, the more ****ing ugly it is, the more appropriate it is, which applies to city planning and buildings as much as cars or people. :lol:

Don't get me wrong. The state I live (mostly) in, Ohio, has plenty of sprawl, and is no London or Paris. But they at least try to make things look nice.


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> You won't even find this in countries like Poland or Romania on freeways.
> 
> Location: I-43 near Milwaukee.


You WILL find roads like this in Poland. How about A18 eastbound?


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## Jacek2000

^^ A18 in Poland is still under construction.The first lane was built by Germans and since that time not repaired. However, in eastern Germany it is (or was recently) easy to see highway built with uncovered concrete slabs.


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## Danielk2

Has anyone tried driving on road #18 in Poland from Olszyna to Wroclaw (eastbound), that's worse than that american picture.


----------



## SkyView

geogregor said:


> You WILL find roads like this in Poland. How about A18 eastbound?


You will find roads like that and even worse ANYWHERE in Belgium.
Though things are improving.


----------



## geogregor

Danielk2 said:


> Has anyone tried driving on road #8 in Poland from Olszyna to Wroclaw (eastbound), that's worse than that american picture.


It is road #18 which I was mentioning as A18. It is complicated story, it is not technically designated as a motorway, it is just ordinary national road.
The reason for that is that half of it still remembers certain Adolf H.


----------



## hoosier

ChrisZwolle said:


> But how do you get a city "more dense". You can maybe demolish a couple of inner city blocks or turn surface parking lots into apartment buildings, but Houston really need to demolish hundreds of thousands of homes and replace them with something denser to make public transportation more feasible, something I don't see happening.


Public transit is quite feasible in Houston. The single light rail line that opened in 2003 has been a big success and if you look at the link I provided in an earlier post you will see that by 2012 several more light rail lines will be finished. The city voters approved a tax increase to pay for these lines because they were sick of being stuck in traffic.


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## architect77

North Carolina maintains the 2nd largest highway network in the US. I think around 78,000 miles of roads. They're like capillaries weaving endlessly throughout what was once mostly a rural state. Today NC is the 10th most populous with almost 9.5 million residents, and by 2030 it is projected to become the 7th most populous state. It's interstates are among the most attractive also. I will post some pics soon...


----------



## hkskyline

*Biden: $19B in highway stimulus already set aside*
Thu Jun 25, 9:50 am ET
AP

WASHINGTON – Vice President Joe Biden says more than half of the economic stimulus money set aside for highway projects has been allocated.

Biden plans to tell the Cabinet on Thursday that every state and territory should beat the June 29 deadline to identify half their spending for highway funds. He says that $19 billion has been set aside to pay for 5,300 transportation projects.

Of that number, 1,900 are already under way. Projects in economically distressed areas or those that would maximize creating jobs were given top priority.

Biden says the stimulus spending's goal is to get people back to work quickly and transportation projects are ideal for that.


----------



## Xusein

architect77 said:


> North Carolina maintains the 2nd largest highway network in the US. I think around 78,000 miles of roads.


How can that be if the entire national Interstate network is 46,876 miles (75,440 km)?

Unless you're counting all roads (including two-lane side streets)...


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## weava

Xusein said:


> How can that be if the entire national Interstate network is 46,876 miles (75,440 km)?


he said highway not interstate network, there are US and state highways also.


----------



## Xusein

Can all the other roads make it the number that high? 78,000 miles of highway for one state sounds incredible. 

Don't even think CA or TX have that much.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are no county routes in North Carolina, that's why NCDOT has such a large highway network to maintain.


----------



## mgk920

In North Carolina, the state DOT owns and maintains nearly EVERY public road in the state outside of the state's cities. Virginia is similar. This includes local roads down to the tiniest of middle-of-nowhere tracks leading to cabins in the woods.

Mike


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## ChrisZwolle

The Katy Freeway (I-10) in Houston in HD!:


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## I-275westcoastfl

Man Texas sure does know how to make good freeways! Great video, you know it's Texas because just about every driver who switched lanes in the video didn't use their signal lol.


----------



## architect77

Here's a visual regarding NC's 80,000 miles of interstate, federal, and state highways...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Dallas Texas stadium:


----------



## Timon91

It will be quite a walk from the furthest parking spot to the stadium


----------



## hkskyline

*US highway travel rises for first time since Dec 07 *

WASHINGTON, June 19 (Reuters) - Low gasoline prices and rising optimism about the economy boosted U.S. driving in April, marking the first monthly rise in U.S. highway travel since December 2007, the U.S. Transportation Department said.

U.S. highway travel was up 0.6 percent in April, rising 1.4 billion miles to 249.5 billion miles.

April's increase followed 16 consecutive months of declines in highway travel as high fuel prices and the weak economy took its toll on American driving habits.

Recent government data, however, suggests that parts of the U.S. economy may be starting to improve.

"By and large (the rise in highway travel) is an indication of some increased confidence on the part of the consumer that is encouraging them to drive a bit more," said Jim Ritterbusch, president of Ritterbusch & Associates in Galena, Illinois.

He cautioned against reading too much into one month's data, however. He said rising gasoline prices may once again put a dent in gasoline consumption.

U.S. gasoline prices hit record levels above $4 a gallon last summer before plummeting below $2 a gallon earlier this year. But with oil prices on the rebound, gasoline costs have begun climbing in recent months.

Tim Evans, an energy analyst for Citi Futures Perspective, said he is not sure if the April increase in driving really indicates a shift in gasoline demand. He said other factors such as rising unemployment would likely continue to dampen gasoline consumption.

"I would like to see more than one month's worth of data," Evans said. "It's hopeful, it's constructive, but it is not in my mind conclusive."

For the first four months of the year, driving was still down 1.1 percent, or 10 billion miles, from the same period last year.

Highway travel rose in every region of the country in April, except the Northeast, where travel was unchanged from a year ago.

The Western region of the United States, made up of 13 states from Colorado to California, had the biggest increase in highway travel, up 1.3 percent from a year ago to 55.1 billion miles.

Phil Flynn, an analyst for Alaron Trading in Chicago, said he believes gasoline demand will not fall as it did last year, despite the rising prices.

"I think gasoline demand has turned a corner. I think the (highway) report shows the worse of the recession is probably over. It doesn't mean that gasoline demand is going to soar, but it means that we've improved a little bit," he said.

The Transportation Department tracks motorists through more than 4,000 automatic traffic recorders operated by state highway agencies.


----------



## architect77

This is the new interchange of US70 and US17 over water in New Bern, NC.









The scary Yadkin River Bridge on I-85 in central North Carolina- These cars and trucks are going at least 65-70mph over this narrow 60 year old bridge.








Report on replacing the bridge-Sorry if it's boring...






And finally the eastern end of the I-40/I-85 Duplex:


----------



## JohnFlint1985

architect77 said:


> This is the new interchange of US70 and US17 over water in New Bern, NC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The scary Yadkin River Bridge on I-85 in central North Carolina- These cars and trucks are going at least 65-70mph over this narrow 60 year old bridge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Report on replacing the bridge-Sorry if it's boring...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And finally the eastern end of the I-40/I-85 Duplex:



where can I find more info and pictures about new interchange of US70 and US17 over water in New Bern, NC? thank you


----------



## ChrisZwolle

hoosier said:


> Public transit is quite feasible in Houston. The single light rail line that opened in 2003 has been a big success and if you look at the link I provided in an earlier post you will see that by 2012 several more light rail lines will be finished. The city voters approved a tax increase to pay for these lines because they were sick of being stuck in traffic.


Yeah, well Houston is a 5.7 million metropolitan area, so a light rail line can be expected to draw some travellers. I think another rail lines to Uptown and the airport can also count on some traveller potential.

However, Houston is extremely large, and I don't think light rail are a solution for transporation in large parts of the city. Houston is a private transport-reliant city, and always will be, considering the layout and expansion of the city.


----------



## Dan

Just finished an 8000km road trip in the US, mostly using freeways. Was really shocked at the terrible quality of most roads, but I guess all the construction we saw too is rectifying at least some of that.

The trip was fantastic though.


----------



## Danielk2

Did you take any pics?


----------



## FM 2258

architect77 said:


> The scary Yadkin River Bridge on I-85 in central North Carolina- These cars and trucks are going at least 65-70mph over this narrow 60 year old bridge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Report on replacing the bridge-Sorry if it's boring...


Interesting bridge. I love the sound of 18-wheelers going by on the freeway. :cheers:


----------



## architect77

JohnFlint1985 said:


> where can I find more info and pictures about new interchange of US70 and US17 over water in New Bern, NC? thank you


I was only able to find small resolution images when I googled "neuse river bridge new bern nc"


----------



## Dan

Danielk2 said:


> Did you take any pics?


About 1200 total, but none really of just roads and such.


----------



## bakatje

Some pics I took during my summer vacation a year ago, bit of Arizona and the desert. Not even sure if they're worth posting, but meh. 

On our way to Phoenix









Roofs of suburbia, this is something you'll see all the time when driving through Phoenix. 

















Stadium









We're going to LA!









Desert road

















Windmills, being a Dutchman I'm used to these! 









Entering LA! :cheers:









Hope you liked my contribution. :nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

From what I've seen on pics and from Google Earth, Arizona's freeways are much better than the Californian ones.


----------



## ir desi

ChrisZwolle said:


> From what I've seen on pics and from Google Earth, Arizona's freeways are much better than the Californian ones.


bakatje, they certainly were worth posting, thank you!

Chris, Arizona does maintain its highways very well, which I think is due to two factors: priority of transportation over other demands, including education, and the fact that the state is responsible for a fairly limited number of freeway miles.


----------



## FM 2258

bakatje said:


> Some pics I took during my summer vacation a year ago, bit of Arizona and the desert. Not even sure if they're worth posting, but meh.
> 
> On our way to Phoenix
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Hope you liked my contribution. :nuts:


Thanks for the pictures. It always seems like other peoples freeway pictures seem more exciting than my own. I wonder if everyone feels that way.


----------



## pwalker

ir desi said:


> bakatje, they certainly were worth posting, thank you!
> 
> Chris, Arizona does maintain its highways very well, which I think is due to two factors: priority of transportation over other demands, including education, and the fact that the state is responsible for a fairly limited number of freeway miles.


Well, I'm not sure education/road funding should be one against the other...they are both important, but...

I agree, definitely worth posting. Phoenix has greatly improved its freeway system over the past couple of decades. In 1985, there was basically one freeway, I-10. 

Looks like you needed a little bug cleaning on the windshield at one point. :lol:


----------



## Shmack

Interstate 10 near Austin, TX. Looks so cosy in the morning light.


----------



## architect77

I lived in SoCal for 5 years back in the 1990's, and I love the ultra-cool look of the recently built freeways out there. Does it get any better than this?
I-210 Foothill Freeway
















I-15 Somewhere near San Bernadino or Riverside


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, the Foothill is about the only "recently" build freeway there... The I-105 opened 16 years ago.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

FM 2258 said:


> Thanks for the pictures. It always seems like other peoples freeway pictures seem more exciting than my own. I wonder if everyone feels that way.


Why would you think that? 

Personally, somehow I love the midwest very much... especially the high plains... so much space and little traffic :cheers:


----------



## J N Winkler

Shmack said:


> Interstate 10 near Austin, TX. Looks so cosy in the morning light.


Not quite--that is actually Houston and the stack shown in the picture is I-10/BW 8 (which does look lovely).


----------



## bakatje

pwalker said:


> Well, I'm not sure education/road funding should be one against the other...they are both important, but...
> 
> I agree, definitely worth posting. Phoenix has greatly improved its freeway system over the past couple of decades. In 1985, there was basically one freeway, I-10.
> 
> Looks like you needed a little bug cleaning on the windshield at one point. :lol:


We drove a lot, so windshield needed cleaning all the time. xD


----------



## DanielFigFoz

FM 2258 said:


> Thanks for the pictures. It always seems like other peoples freeway pictures seem more exciting than my own. I wonder if everyone feels that way.


I also feel like that, for example about a year ago i put loads of photos on the Portuguese thread and they seemed so bad compared to the other people's ones.


----------



## bakatje

Some random LA shots.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

LA county considers HOT lanes on I-10 and I-110


----------



## bakatje

ChrisZwolle said:


> LA county considers HOT lanes on I-10 and I-110


Seems pretty expensive. :|


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Such commuting distances are no exception though, mainly because of the lack of affordable housing in the LA basin.


----------



## bakatje

ChrisZwolle said:


> Such commuting distances are no exception though, mainly because of the lack of affordable housing in the LA basin.


Yeah, that's why it seems kinda ackward to me. Does a HOT lane really imrpove traffic that much? Just wondering if you know of some other situations where it really worked..


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nah, I don't think they'll solve traffic congestion, it's mainly reorganizing the existing lanes. You can now buy your way through congestion, though I doubt if many people will spend 8000 dollars per year to get delay-free to work in downtown.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Downtown Connector in Atlanta, GA


----------



## Majestic

If it's going to be E-Z Pass compatible, then the charge should be significantly reduced.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think the new HOT lanes in the US will be ETC only. No manned toll booths.


----------



## snowman159

ChrisZwolle said:


> You can now buy your way through congestion, though I doubt if many people will spend 8000 dollars per year to get delay-free to work in downtown.


I think that's the idea. If everybody were using them that would defeat the whole point.

It can't solve any traffic problems and was never intended to. It's more of a luxury thing, like flying 1st instead of coach (instead of more leg room you get less traffic)  
And if tolls were used to maintain roads then that's not such a bad thing.


----------



## HAWC1506

Triple post...


----------



## HAWC1506

Triple post...


----------



## HAWC1506

*More than Half of Highway Fatalities Are Related to Deficient Roadway Conditions*

*New Study Shows More Forgiving Roads Would Save Lives and Cut Costs; Health Experts & Transportation Leaders Urge Congressional Action*

WASHINGTON, July 1 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- More than half of U.S. highway fatalities are related to deficient roadway conditions - a substantially more lethal factor than drunk driving, speeding or non-use of safety belts - according to a landmark study released today. Ten roadway-related crashes occur every minute (5.3 million a year) and also contribute to 38 percent of non-fatal injuries, the report found.

In revealing that deficiencies in the roadway environment contributed to more than 22,000 fatalities and cost the nation more than $217 billion annually, the Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation (PIRE) concluded that making the roadway environment more protective and forgiving is essential to reducing highway fatalities and costs.

"If we put as much focus on improving road safety conditions as we do in urging people not to drink and drive, we'd save thousands of lives and billions of dollars every year," principal study author Dr. Ted Miller said. Miller, an internationally-recognized safety economist with PIRE added, "Safer drivers and safer cars remain vitally important, but safer roadways are critical to saving lives, preventing injuries and reducing costs."

Titled "On a Crash Course: The Dangers and Health Costs of Deficient Roadways," the study found the $217 billion cost of deficient roadway conditions dwarfs the costs of other safety factors, including: $130 billion for alcohol, $97 billion for speeding, or $60 billion for failing to wear a safety belt. Indeed, the $217 billion figure is more than three-and-one-half times the amount of money government at all levels is investing annually in roadway capital improvements - $59 billion, according to the Federal Highway Administration.

The report concluded that roadway related crashes impose $20 billion in medical costs; $46 billion in productivity costs; $52 billion in property damage and other resource costs; and $99 billion in quality of life costs which measure the value of pain, suffering, and loss of enjoyment of life by those injured or killed in crashes and their families. The report also found that crashes linked to road conditions cost American businesses an estimated $22 billion at a time when many firms are struggling. According to the report, crashes linked to road conditions cost taxpayers over $12 billion every year.

"Recent concerns about swine flu pale in comparison to the number of crash victims I treat," said Dr. Jared Goldberg, an emergency room physician in Alexandria, VA. "In medical terms, highway fatalities and injuries have reached epidemic proportions, and efforts to prevent further spread of this plague are essential. In the absence of a true vaccine to defend ourselves, fixing dangerous roads would help prevent traffic crashes from occurring in the first place."

On a Crash Course identifies ways transportation officials can improve road conditions to save lives and reduce injuries. For example, immediate solutions for problem spots include: replacing non-forgiving poles with breakaway poles, using brighter and more durable pavement markings, adding rumble strips to shoulders, mounting more guardrails or safety barriers, and installing better signs with easier-to-read legends. The report also suggested more significant road improvements, including: adding or widening shoulders, improving roadway alignment, replacing or widening narrow bridges, reducing pavement edges and abrupt drop offs, and clearing more space adjacent to roadways.

"Although behavioral factors are involved in most crashes, avoiding those crashes through driver improvement requires reaching millions of individuals and getting them to sustain best safety practices," continued Miller. "It is far more practical to make the roadway environment more forgiving and protective."

The report also analyzed crash costs on a state-by-state basis. The 10 states with the:

-- Highest total cost from crashes involving deficient road conditions
are (alphabetically): Alabama, California, Florida, Georgia, Illinois,
New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Tennessee and Texas.
-- Highest road-related crash costs per million vehicle miles of travel
are: Alabama, Arkansas, Hawaii, Idaho, Kentucky, Louisiana,
Mississippi, South Carolina, Tennessee and West Virginia.

-- Highest road-related crash costs per mile of road are: California,
Connecticut, District of Columbia, Florida, Hawaii, Maryland,
Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York and South Carolina.


PIRE is a leading independent transportation safety research organization. It has conducted research for a range of organizations, including the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, National Safety Council and Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD). Drawing upon the most recent available data from the U.S. Department of Transportation, PIRE employed analytic modeling methods to evaluate the causes and costs of U.S. motor vehicle crashes in preparing On a Crash Course.

PIRE conducted the study on behalf of the Transportation Construction Coalition (TCC), which hosts the full report, complete state-by-state data and other research findings at www.transportationconstructioncoalition.org. TCC members are calling on Congress to provide significant, dedicated funding for roadway safety improvements and to develop programs that encourage states to invest even more. The federal law that governs transportation funding will expire this fall, and congressional committees are now in the process of drafting successor legislation.

About the Authors

Ted R. Miller, Ph.D., Regional Science (economics); M. City Planning and M.S., Operations Research, Principal Research Scientist

Dr. Miller is an internationally recognized safety economist, who has led more than 150 studies and authored more than 200 scholarly papers. He is a leading expert on injury incidence, costs and consequences, as well as substance abuse costs. His cost estimates are used by the U.S. Department of Transportation, the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, the Justice Department and several foreign governments. He has estimated benefit-cost ratios for more than 125 health and safety measures. He is a Fellow with the Association for the Advancement of Automotive Medicine and has received several national awards for his work.

Eduard Zaloshnja, Ph.D., Applied Economics
Research Scientist


Dr. Zaloshnja has a background in applied economics and econometrics, specializing in safety/substance abuse issues. At PIRE, he has estimated U.S. highway crash and bus and truck crash costs, as well as the costs of crashes to employers and the frequency and costs of traumatic brain injuries. He also has conducted effectiveness and benefit-cost analyses of diverse crash safety countermeasures including safety belts, child safety seats, booster seats, red light cameras, cattle guards, and streetlights. Currently, Dr. Zaloshnja is investigating how often people become Medicaid recipients in order to pay their medical bills following catastrophic injuries.

About PIRE

The Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation (PIRE) is a non-profit public health research organization. For more than 30 years, PIRE has studied transportation safety, doing groundbreaking work on issues related to driver behavior, including studies of safety belt use, driver distraction, hazard perception, aggressive driving, cell phone use, and fatigue. PIRE has been an international leader and made seminal contributions in research to understand and prevent impaired driving and reduce harm consequent to it. PIRE has conducted transportation safety research for, among others, the Federal Highway Administration, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, National Safety Council, and Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD). More at www.pire.org.

About TCC

The Transportation Construction Coalition (TCC) includes 28 national groups - representing contractors, engineers, manufacturers, suppliers and labor unions - with a collective interest in federal transportation policy and funding. More at www.transportationconstructioncoalition.org.

Source: Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation (PIRE)


----------



## Archaus

*Successful Regeneration Adjacent Highways*

Hi there,

I was wondering if anyone out there could think of any good examples of urban regeneration in areas adjacent to major arterial roads, highways etc.

We have a situation where we'd like to look at redevelopment either side of one such road, the final scale being possibly 8 to 10 stories of mixed use building with links between / over the highway.

Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks...


----------



## mgk920

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think the new HOT lanes in the US will be ETC only. No manned toll booths.


I still wonder how those High-Occupancy Toll ('HOT') lanes will be enforced. You'll need someone to actually look into each vehicle and compare those observations with records of whether or not tolls were paid.

:nuts:

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Weren't inflatables or mannequins popular as HOVs in LA?


----------



## snowman159

mgk920 said:


> I still wonder how those High-Occupancy Toll ('HOT') lanes will be enforced. You'll need someone to actually look into each vehicle and compare those observations with records of whether or not tolls were paid.


I guess they have a camera that takes a picture of everyone without a valid transponder and send them the bill (+ a hefty surcharge). Same as in EZ-Pass only lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I was thinking about this pic:









And I got myself the calculator:

Houston metropolitan area has 5,700,000 inhabitants. That comes down to about 3.5 million vehicles in my humble estimate. To handle 3.5 million vehicles in 24 hours, you need (3,500,000 / 24 / 2200 ) = 66 lanes outbound. :nuts: 
Even Houston doesn't have that. So no wonder that it becomes massively jammed.


----------



## Xusein

Was that pic taken during Hurricane Rita (or a different one)?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah it was Rita. More people died during evacuaction than due to the hurricane I believe. Evacuations on this scale always turn out to be disasters. You can maybe evacuate cities like Charleston, Savannah or Daytona Beach, but multi-million agglomerations like Miami and Houston are not suited for such a mass evacuation. Another problem is most freeways narrowing to only 4 lanes outside the urban area, which can handle only 200,000 vehicles per 24 hours if all lanes are outbound.


----------



## ADCS

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yeah it was Rita. More people died during evacuaction than due to the hurricane I believe. Evacuations on this scale always turn out to be disasters. You can maybe evacuate cities like Charleston, Savannah or Daytona Beach, but multi-million agglomerations like Miami and Houston are not suited for such a mass evacuation. Another problem is most freeways narrowing to only 4 lanes outside the urban area, which can handle only 200,000 vehicles per 24 hours if all lanes are outbound.


I live three miles from where that photo was taken. Last year, when Hurricane Ike hit, most people didn't bother leaving because of those memories. Luckily, the wind damage this far north was not very bad, with maximum speeds of 90 mph (145 km/h). People would have still stayed even had the wind become worse - the maximum predicted speed two days beforehand was somewhere around 145 mph (220 km/h).

The sad thing is that you could get out of the area fairly quickly during Rita if you knew the back roads - one of my friends in college had his girlfriend drive up to Oklahoma (where we were), and it took maybe 30 more minutes than usual - because we knew the back roads to take to leave the city to the north. Of course, navigation in Houston is so dependent on freeways for the most part, that I literally think no one knew to stay off.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yeah it was Rita. More people died during evacuaction than due to the hurricane I believe. Evacuations on this scale always turn out to be disasters. You can maybe evacuate cities like Charleston, Savannah or Daytona Beach, but multi-million agglomerations like Miami and Houston are not suited for such a mass evacuation. Another problem is most freeways narrowing to only 4 lanes outside the urban area, which can handle only 200,000 vehicles per 24 hours if all lanes are outbound.


Since Houston has such a good highway system it wouldn't be near as a nightmare as with Miami or any other major Florida city, we just haven't seen a mass evacuation yet.


----------



## LtBk

Major evacuations will screw up any city regardless of how many freeways or or alternative routes you have.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Well the more alternatives or the better the roads the better the evacuation.


----------



## SkyView

Here a few pics of my Southwest trip of last summer :

Interchange near LAX airport 









Double decker freeway in LA









I105/I110 stack interchange









Golden Gate bridge SF









Bay Bridge SF









Tioga Pass Yosemite NP









Road to Death Valley NP









Death Valley NP









Cattle Jam on the road to Capitol Reef NP









Capitol Reef NP









Million dollar highway in the Rockies









Road to Monument Valley









Route 66 in Flagstaff AZ









Phoenix stadium









Desert highway I8









Another one









El Toro LA I5









Nearing downtown LA









Sunset Blvd LA









Up to Hollywood


----------



## ADCS

LtBk said:


> Major evacuations will screw up any city regardless of how many freeways or or alternative routes you have.


Either that, or the procedure hasn't been optimized. Considering the improvements in forecasting accuracy for tropical storms, once an evacuation is determined to be in the cards, there's no reason an area can't be subdivided into small portions, perhaps by ZIP code, something practically everyone is required to know, each of which have a pre-determined evacuation route (either freeway or back road) attached to it. This wouldn't be too hard to manage given the levels of computer analysis available today. 

The main issue would be promotion and compliance to the pre-determined routes; it's often difficult to get past people's self-preservation instincts, which leads to classic tragedy of the commons situations such as the Rita issues.


----------



## Xusein

Nice pics, SkyView! I'd love to see the natural scenery in the Southwest US one day.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interstate 69 in Mississippi.


----------



## FM 2258

SkyView said:


> Route 66 in Flagstaff AZ



Nice pictures. 

As for U.S. 66 I always thought it was a stupid idea to decommission U.S. 66. The government should bring it back as a real highway.


----------



## Xusein

No point now. All the interstates that took over it's route pretty much, making it useless. 

US highways are nice and all, but they're kind of irrelevant in this day and age...US 66 is just nostalgia.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, I-40 and I-44 were mostly build across US 66. There are some parallel sections though, mostly known as State Route 66 in various states. Some parallel sections are abandoned too.


----------



## architect77

I-95 is one of the most important, heavily-traveled interstates in the US. It serves as the primary link for the entire east coast (US1 held this title prior).

Unlike most other states, North Carolina decided not to route the interstate through any "important" cities such as Raleigh during its construction in the 1960's.

Because it is used primarily by out-of-state motorists travelling between the Northeast and Florida, it gets little priority when it comes to replacing NC's crumbling highways.

As a result, I-95 through North Carolina has become quite deadly with fatalities almost every week. NCDOT wants to completely rebuild the highway with 4 lanes in each direction and is considering adding tolls to help cover the estimated $6 Billion pricetag.

Today's ugly reality:


----------



## architect77

North Carolina doesn't have any major urban areas or fancy 4 level "stacks", and its "traffic woes" are a joke compared many other places. 

I am posting these poor-quality pics merely to show off NC's first realtime speed sensoring system and traveltime info. I've seen many of these in other cities such as Atlanta, but I've never seen one that compares traveltimes of two different routes.


----------



## nerdly_dood

I-95 is 6 lanes through much of Va from what little I've seen of it. VDOT would do well to add a lane or two to each side of I-81 too, and some of its pavement is deteriorating...

I'm curious though, what's with the green I-40 shield here? (Not red/blue?)


----------



## enkay

The green interstate shield is used to mark business routes. They typically are just normal arterial roads that lead into downtown in cities whose city centres are not served by interstates.. I'm pretty sure.


----------



## Tom985

enkay said:


> The green interstate shield is used to mark business routes. They typically are just normal arterial roads that lead into downtown in cities whose city centres are not served by interstates.. I'm pretty sure.


Correct, but they're also used increasingly for bypassed sections of former Interstates: I-80 in Sacramento and I-85 in the Carolinas are the ones I remember right off.


----------



## jchernin

Xusein said:


> No point now. All the interstates that took over it's route pretty much, making it useless.
> 
> *US highways are nice and all, but they're kind of irrelevant in this day and age*...US 66 is just nostalgia.


um, while indeed interstates have pretty much taken over, important us highway routes still exist. the interstate system was planned to compliment rather than replace the federal highway system, though here in the west, many routes, including 66, were indeed replaced with freeways.

one extremely important federal highway is us 101 on the west coast. it serves as one of california's major north-south connectors, connecting la to sf. for the most part, 101 in california is a either a freeway or an expressway (divided but not limited access). 101 winds its way through the huge redwood forests up north, crosses the golden gate bridge, and serves downtown san francisco, downtown san jose and downtown los angeles. the terminus in la (at the east los angeles interchange) is the BUSIEST INTERCHANGE IN THE WORLD. the route approximates the 'el camino real', an old trail that linked all of californias spanish missions.


----------



## pwalker

nerdly_dood said:


> I-95 is 6 lanes through much of Va from what little I've seen of it. VDOT would do well to add a lane or two to each side of I-81 too, and some of its pavement is deteriorating...
> 
> I'm curious though, what's with the green I-40 shield here? (Not red/blue?)


They are typically business routes, but sometimes called "business loops", as they take you back to the main interstate where you return to the freeway at a different exit. They are quite convenient especially in smaller towns, but with more and more development occuring right at the Interstate they may be becoming less important.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

New York bridge tolls are raised with 10%. MTA has a huge budget deficit (10% or over 1 billion dollars), and bridge users are now filling that gap...


----------



## Nexis

Thats one of the reasons i hate NYC , there stupid in balancing a budget or handling a surplus! that's why all the New Yorkers come to NJ to Shop or fill a tank of gas.:lol:


----------



## coreyt

architect77 said:


> North Carolina doesn't have any major urban areas or fancy 4 level "stacks", and its "traffic woes" are a joke compared many other places.
> 
> I am posting these poor-quality pics merely to show off NC's first realtime speed sensoring system and traveltime info. I've seen many of these in other cities such as Atlanta, but I've never seen one that compares traveltimes of two different routes.



I usually lurk but had to jump in to dispel this ignorance. Charlotte is a major urban area with a four level stack (intersection of I-77 and I-485) and another one to be built in the near future. I-485 in south Charlotte is a parking lot because of poor planning and not enough lanes, and its safe to say that any Charlottean would never go near Independence Boulevard in rush hour unless they had to. We do have problems just like everyone else, and to simply brush off NC as a backwater state with no real urban centers is to be frank simply insulting. And I havent even breached the topic of I-40 in the RTP area, or 440 during rush hour.....


----------



## JohnFlint1985

ChrisZwolle said:


> New York bridge tolls are raised with 10%. MTA has a huge budget deficit (10% or over 1 billion dollars), and bridge users are now filling that gap...


The truth is - I don't go to NYC as much anymore because of these tolls. So they shoot themselves in the foot. Why do you want to visit NYC if not for work? prices are much higher, they have state taxes on all the clothes and shoes, traffic never ends, roads are wayyyyyyyy far from being in good condition, restaurants routinely charge you now 20% tips on sometimes very lousy service and you cannot refuse that. So what is happening as a result - businesses and "happy hour" places are moving en masse to Hoboken, and Jersey City. in New Jersey we have NO taxes on clothes. almost never traffic as bad as in Manhattan. people are generally more laid back and nice. So honestly this is quite a stupid move on their part. I counted that for me to go to Brooklyn through NJ turnpike and all the bridges and then go back through Verrazano-Narrows - costs me 40$+ together with gas that I spend. I think this is crazy to pay 10$ for the bridge and 8$ for another one on top of 4.50$ toll for the turnpike.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice pic by MODOT









Flickr account of MODOT


----------



## ADCS

^^ I can assure you that this picture was not taken recently


----------



## architect77

"I usually lurk but had to jump in to dispel this ignorance. Charlotte is a major urban area with a four level stack (intersection of I-77 and I-485) and another one to be built in the near future. I-485 in south Charlotte is a parking lot because of poor planning and not enough lanes, and its safe to say that any Charlottean would never go near Independence Boulevard in rush hour unless they had to. We do have problems just like everyone else, and to simply brush off NC as a backwater state with no real urban centers is to be frank simply insulting. And I havent even breached the topic of I-40 in the RTP area, or 440 during rush hour...."

UHHHHH, I was born, raised, and educated in North Carolina, and my sole purpose since joining Skyscraper City has been to boast about NC's greatness. For example visit the "Highway Fonts" thread. In my opinion Charlotte's biggest claim-to-fame is its elegant and extraordinary skyline. It is among the most beautiful in the country. I worked along side the lead architect of the Hearst Tower for a year in Atlanta.

I only mentioned the "4-level stack thing" because of all of the impressive Texas interchanges within this thread. North Carolina is now building flyovers all over the state, however the engineers tend to support them with as much earth as possible. It's hard to imagine anything like Atlanta's "spaghetti junction" being built in NC for now...

Charlotte has definitely made all the right moves in its attempt to enter the big leagues, and certainly looks and feels different from any other NC city. But you have to remember that Charlotte's 5 or 6 county (touching Mecklenburg) metro population is only slightly larger than the Triangle's or even the Triad for that matter. The 13+ county "Charlotte 
Region" population of 2 million can easily be matched with 13 counties closer to Raleigh. 

I am proud of the entire state. I live in NYC, and everytime there's a moment when strangers are announcing to each other where they hail from, I always become the "celebrity" after mentioning North Carolina complete with oooohs, and ahhhhs.

Until I find my absolute favorite shot of the Charlotte skyline, just look at the city from space and be thankful...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Tolls on Oklahoma's turnpikes are going up 16%, the first increase since 2001.


----------



## hoosier

architect77 said:


> UHHHHH, I was born, raised, and educated in North Carolina, and my sole purpose since joining Skyscraper City has been to boast about NC's greatness.


That is not a reason to join this forum. I would prefer you take your blind homerism elsewhere. Shit stinks in the Tar Heel State just as badly as it does anywhere else.


----------



## hoosier

nerdly_dood said:


> I-95 is 6 lanes through much of Va from what little I've seen of it. VDOT would do well to add a lane or two to each side of I-81 too, and some of its pavement is deteriorating...


Widening I-81 would be a complete waste of money, since most of the traffic is from trucks looking to avoid congestion on I-95. Shift the freight to rail and you will see traffic on I-81 drop significantly. Not only is this a more environmentally friendly plan, it is way cheaper.


----------



## pwalker

hoosier said:


> That is not a reason to join this forum. I would prefer you take your blind homerism elsewhere. Shit stinks in the Tar Heel State just as badly as it does anywhere else.


Yep, I'm not sure sprawl is something to proud of. Impressive, yes, the same way a bad highway accident is "impressive". Everyone wants to look.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

hoosier said:


> Widening I-81 would be a complete waste of money, since most of the traffic is from trucks looking to avoid congestion on I-95. Shift the freight to rail and you will see traffic on I-81 drop significantly. Not only is this a more environmentally friendly plan, it is way cheaper.


That's some very simplistic thinking you got there..

Transportation doesn't work that way. "shifting freight to rail" is very vague, and the majority of non-bulk carried by trucks is not suitable for rail freight. It's not like someone says "shifting freight to rail", and all problems will magically disappear...


----------



## ADCS

ChrisZwolle said:


> That's some very simplistic thinking you got there..
> 
> Transportation doesn't work that way. "shifting freight to rail" is very vague, and the majority of non-bulk carried by trucks is not suitable for rail freight. It's not like someone says "shifting freight to rail", and all problems will magically disappear...


I-81 does not encounter any major (top 20 CSA) metropolitan areas. It's entire purpose for existence is to provide long-haul trucks with a bypass for I-95, as he mentioned, since 95 goes through some of the biggest metros in the United States (Richmond all the way up to NYC). Therefore, most of the shipping that occurs on I-81 is exactly the kind of bulk freight that would be well-served by shifting the cargo to rail transportation.

The rub is, most of the rail infrastructure in the Northeast is already at capacity. Given the high gas prices last summer, most of the remaining spare capacity was already taken. While the railroads are engaging in massive capital projects right now, they understandably are not seeking to overexpand, and risk the same situation they faced in the 1960s, when even freight was only marginally in the black, due to heavy capital expenditures. Therefore, in the absence of nationalizing the rail infrastructure (which is politically infeasible in the United States at this time), you're correct, some expansion of I-81 is necessary, particularly near major interchanges and freight distribution centers.


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## ChrisZwolle

Stubs off I-64 in St. Louis.


----------



## WA

weird ^^


----------



## pwalker

WA said:


> weird ^^


Weird, yes. Uncommon, no. There are a lot of unfinished freeways/interchanges in the U.S. due mainly to the freeway revolts that occured in the 1960's and 1970's.


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## ADCS

WA said:


> weird ^^


Another casualty of the freeway wars of the '60s and '70s


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## mgk920

^^
That was planned to be an inner beltline around the west edge of downtown Saint Louis, starting at the incompleted interchange at I-44/55, running north using that stub and then connecting to I-70 on the near north side. Interestingly, the neighborhoods went bad anyways and a planned new Mississippi River crossing will be using ROW in that same area on the north edge of downtown Saint Louis.

Mike


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## I-275westcoastfl

pwalker said:


> Weird, yes. Uncommon, no. There are a lot of unfinished freeways/interchanges in the U.S. due mainly to the freeway revolts that occured in the 1960's and 1970's.


Ah those idiots... They made commuting so much more fun in many cities. hno:


----------



## J N Winkler

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Ah those idiots... They made commuting so much more fun in many cities. hno:


Why should your road to work run through a black person's bedroom?

It's not hard to see why the freeway revolts occurred when you look at right-of-way maps from the 1950's and 1960's which show large tracts of housing within control-of-access lines.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The biggest problem in St. Louis seems to be the I-70. It runs depressed with only 4 lanes through downtown, though traffic volumes are around 80,000 which will cause traffic jams during rushhour. That's also why the Poplar Street Bridge is congested. Technically speaking, the Poplar Street Bridge has no capacity problems, it has 8 lanes, and an AADT of 99,000 which is very sufficient. 8 lanes can handle up to 200,000 if necessary. I-64 also has sufficient capacity at 90,000 AADT on 6 lanes. So the problem seems to be the I-55/I-64/I-70 interchange plus the I-70 itself. 

I'm afraid St. Louis proper is some kind of a lost cause though. I bet most jobs in the metropolitan area are by far outside of downtown, and except for the southern 3rd part of St. Louis, most of the city is experiencing urban prairie, sometimes on Detroit scale. Neighboring East St. Louis also has this problem. I wonder what they can do to save the city from running completely empty. The city had a population of 857,000 in 1950, down to 350,000 today, which is even a bigger decrease than Detroit. (percentage-wise). The per capita income is less than 40% of the US average. Crime is high. I think they won't get much further than revitalizing the downtown core for now, but most of the city is a problem. Housing in the southern, less bad part of St. Louis is also aging, so I doubt if they will steer clear of the urban prairie problem in the future.


----------



## Nexis

Heres some Google Streetview HD photos of the 710 freeway in Los Angele's
*Accident on the 710 *









*The 710 @ 405*










*The 710 @ Willow Street
*


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

J N Winkler said:


> Why should your road to work run through a black person's bedroom?
> 
> It's not hard to see why the freeway revolts occurred when you look at right-of-way maps from the 1950's and 1960's which show large tracts of housing within control-of-access lines.


Well the road to work that ran through there ended up getting built anyways. Instead of a highway those people got overcrowded artery roads which means they got all that traffic anyways along with loud, slow moving traffic. My county had a great freeway plan that would have made commuting smooth and getting from point a to b quickly. Instead my county is referred to "the land of traffic lights" because we have poor artery roads to get everywhere. Those residents of the past were idiots because they didn't think long term and I see now in many cases they built artery roads through residential areas to relieve traffic from other roads.


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## ADCS

^^ You don't know that. Houston only had one major freeway cancellation (TX 225 within the loop) and traffic is still a nightmare at rush hour.


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## ChrisZwolle

Hmmm, Houston was the only city reducing traffic congestion in the last 25 years... but it grew tremendously. How long would it take to get to downtown from the edges of town (Woodlands, Sugar Land etc.) during rushhour?


----------



## ADCS

ChrisZwolle said:


> Hmmm, Houston was the only city reducing traffic congestion in the last 25 years... but it grew tremendously. How long would it take to get to downtown from the edges of town (Woodlands, Sugar Land etc.) during rushhour?


Driving from where I used to work (Meyerland, southwest Loop 610) to where I lived at the time (Spring, 7 miles south of the Woodlands), would take about 1:15 on a decent-flowing day, and up to 2 hours if there were accidents.

Congestion did drop after the late 1980s - early 1990s reconstruction boom, particularly when the West Sam Houston Tollway was built - but it did not take long for it to reach back to familiar levels. While much of it was due to growth, it also had to do with the increased capacity paradox - as freeways were widened, people who took alternative routes to dodge freeway traffic returned to the highways. For example, I would take surface streets from where I worked to Downtown, and then up the Hardy Toll Road. That would usually take about 55 minutes, but still cost me $3.00 per trip. Most people will not take the toll road if the freeway capacity is enhanced - see low Hardy traffic before the airport connector, and the drastic decrease in Westpark Tollway usage as they've opened up the new Katy Freeway, which parallels the toll road.

The multiple-CBD nature of Houston also contributes to the traffic issues here. When working in the Woodlands, both outbound and inbound traffic is very heavy during rush hour, despite I-45 being 4x4 + 3x3 frontage road. That's because of A. crappy engineering (putting a direct connector/flyover exit just past an onramp) and B. traffic both trying to leave the Woodlands to get to work closer to town, and coming to the Woodlands to work there. Of course, this multi-centered nature wouldn't exist without the massive freeways in the first place.

As you can see, it's pretty complicated.


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## ChrisZwolle

> While much of it was due to growth, it also had to do with the increased capacity paradox - as freeways were widened, people who took alternative routes to dodge freeway traffic returned to the highways.


Also a problem with the hub-and-spoke system. Some areas are quite far from freeways (especially further from the center). Traffic volumes on surface roads are quite high, so if the freeway flows again, it's not weird people choose the freeway again. However, any traffic engineer worth his salt calculates these things into a widening project. 

As you mentioned, toll roads are also a problem. They only work if free routes are very congested. That's why I'd rather see tax-financed freeways than toll roads. 

However, any really big city (metro over 5 million) becomes problematic. You'll get such significant rushhour flows that you will need massive freeways to handle that traffic. If you don't want to widen freeways that much, multiple CBD's are the best solution imo. They did quite a job on that in cities like Atlanta and Houston, and other naturally multi-cored metropolises like Dallas and the San Francisco Bay area. 5+ million metropolitan areas centered on one single downtown creates nearly uncontrollable commuter flows.


----------



## ADCS

ChrisZwolle said:


> Also a problem with the hub-and-spoke system. Some areas are quite far from freeways (especially further from the center). Traffic volumes on surface roads are quite high, so if the freeway flows again, it's not weird people choose the freeway again. However, any traffic engineer worth his salt calculates these things into a widening project.
> 
> As you mentioned, toll roads are also a problem. They only work if free routes are very congested. That's why I'd rather see tax-financed freeways than toll roads.
> 
> However, any really big city (metro over 5 million) becomes problematic. You'll get such significant rushhour flows that you will need massive freeways to handle that traffic. If you don't want to widen freeways that much, multiple CBD's are the best solution imo. They did quite a job on that in cities like Atlanta and Houston, and other naturally multi-cored metropolises like Dallas and the San Francisco Bay area. 5+ million metropolitan areas centered on one single downtown creates nearly uncontrollable commuter flows.


Yes, but at what cost? While it's true that you don't have massive exoduses from a city center with a multiple CBD setup, you also disincentivize living close to your place of work and encourage sprawl (as you'll just have to take the freeways anyway, and you might as well live somewhere you can get the residence you want for the price you want). It seriously reduces the number of options for those who want the amenities of a more dense, urban environment, as there rarely exists in one area the critical mass to create these amenities. 

Likewise, it sets into stone the requirement for personal transportation to be your main means of moving about anywhere, as the level of service for public transportation that this setup requires would require large, politically-infeasible subsidies as no route would get to the level of ridership that is necessary to become economically viable. This isn't a huge loss if you're of some means, but having to own a car and insurance can be a major pinch on lower-income making people, and having that car break down on you can be catastrophic, particularly if one cannot afford the repairs or another car.

Not only that, but while you'll not have frozen seas of cars from 5-9am and 4-8pm with a multi-CBD setup (always), you will have high levels of traffic at all hours of the day, as businesses and clients interact and engage with each other, not to mention support services go about their daily business - and since anyone who needs to do anything must jump in the car in the first place, and we're so conditioned to using the freeways anyway, you can see how traffic can build up at incredibly odd hours. Not only that, but there's rarely a means of traveling quickly against the flow - if there's traffic in one direction, there's traffic in the other, since people are all going to different places from different places.


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## ChrisZwolle

Nice new bridge on I-95 in New Haven. It will replace the current 6-lane bridge.









CURRENT BRIDGE:


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## Xusein

That's the bridge that CONNDOT was putting almost 1/3rd of their budget in back in 2007 or so.


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## hoosier

I had no idea that bridge was getting replaced.


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## WA

They need to widen the I-91 SB to I-95 NB to at least 2 lanes and CONNDOT needs to widen I-95 to 5x5 from New Haven to NY, although that will probably not ever happen.


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## Xusein

No, it probably won't happen. That would be massively expensive because the area that I-95 from New Haven to the NY border is situated in a very developed area with prohibitively high land costs (some of the highest in the nation). It was very hard from them to improve the highway in Bridgeport when they did it a few years ago. The state has no choice but to improve Metro North to keep the area from further congestion. 

Unless you're going to any of the cities on I-95, I'd avoid it altogether. The Merritt Parkway is a much more better ride. Other than going through Hartford and Waterbury which sees high traffic, I-84/I-684 is another better way to get to New York. I never take I-95 anymore, not worth the stress.


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## JohnFlint1985

Xusein said:


> That's the bridge that CONNDOT was putting almost 1/3rd of their budget in back in 2007 or so.


but is is nice though and it will hopefully illimitable most traffic on the way to Boston.


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## ChrisZwolle

considering large freeway projects are rare in this region, it's not weird that a DOT has to spend a large proportion of their budget to a new large project (as this bridge).


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## JohnFlint1985

ChrisZwolle said:


> considering large freeway projects are rare in this region, it's not weird that a DOT has to spend a large proportion of their budget to a new large project (as this bridge).


very true and besides - this place is horrible in the morning. Also please consider that it is close to one of the largest USA universities Yale university. so in the morning it is murder to get through the bridge.


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## Nexis

Personal , i don't take I-95 to Boston or New England, i take I-287 East to I-684 North to I-84 East to I-90 East to Boston from my home in North New Jersey, I-95 no doubt needs widening its not just the Highway , the Acela needs a new route through CT, all the old Bridges force the Acela to go 30 to 40 mph.

California 

Anyway i found more Google Streetview HD sections
I-80 @ Exit 27









I-80 @ The 580 Freeway









Somewhere in Northern Cali off the I-5









Colorado

off I-70 in Frisco,CO










I-70 WB in Silver Plume,CO 









I-70 Westbound









Looking at I-70 Westbound in Idaho Springs,CO









I-70 / US-6 Split


















Hope you liked, i'll be posting more in the coming weeks

~Corey Best


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## Jeroen669

Nexis said:


> Somewhere in Northern Cali off the I-5


Weird traffic lights...


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## ChrisZwolle

Detroit traffic volumes (2007)


----------



## Majestic

Cool. Do you have more of these maps of other American cities?


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## ChrisZwolle

That depends which way DOT's make them available. Some have PDF maps, some have interactive maps (yuck) and some have Excel or other table files.


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## ChrisZwolle

Kansas City, Missouri.


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## ChrisZwolle

St. Louis:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice video of I-10 through San Antonio, TX Click on the link to view it in HD on Youtube.


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## Paddington

ChrisZwolle said:


> Detroit traffic volumes (2007)


I take I-94 to work everyday. :yes:


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## ChrisZwolle

Here are some downtown Detroit volumes


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## Snowguy716

It amazes me how huge the freeways in Texas are. Also, you can tell they were developed in the automobile era because of the lack of freeways through residential areas and roadside commercial big box areas right in to near downtown.

In the Twin Cities the freeways are completely different with most of them sunken with sound barriers and they run through residential sections of the city.


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## I-275westcoastfl

I beg to differ in Texas a lot of highways ran through residential neighborhoods they had sound walls and wide open space in the suburbs, in the city they had sound walls with the neighborhoods on the other side.


----------



## LtBk

Here is the link to the AADT for Baltimore County in 2008: http://www.marylandroads.com/shaser...aps/oppe/trafficvolumemaps/2008/baltimore.pdf


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## Xusein

Here are some traffic logs for Connecticut...
(warning, the first link on the page doesn't work, the data is on the historical data).
http://www.ct.gov/dot/cwp/view.asp?a=3532&q=330402

The busiest stretch of highway in the state is I-84 in Downtown Hartford, at exit 48, with 172,500 cars a day.

Also, I-95 stays with over 100k cars from the NY border to near New Haven...


----------



## OakRidge

*So Cal Metro:* http://www.flickr.com/photos/southerncalifornian/3803416792/









*So Cal Metro:* http://www.flickr.com/photos/southerncalifornian/3802602103/


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## WA

WOW ^^ I wish they had those here in MA instead of these uneffiecient cloverleafs.


----------



## massp88

WA said:


> WOW ^^ I wish they had those here in MA instead of these uneffiecient cloverleafs.


While the stacked overchanges would be welcomed in the commonwealth of Massachusetts, I think the red and blue columns, along with the stars look tacky .


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Better than the usual detoriated look of concrete imo...

But I wonder how these stacks will look in 2030.


----------



## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> But I wonder how these stacks will look in 2030.


Probably much as they do now, except for natural aging of the traffickable surfaces like pavement and bridge decks. Dallas is in a warm, semiarid region and does not have a lot of smokestack industry.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Not quite a stack, but this is how concrete in the Netherlands looks after 40 years...









Butt ugly.


----------



## WA

massp88 said:


> While the stacked overchanges would be welcomed in the commonwealth of Massachusetts, I think the red and blue columns, along with the stars look tacky .


True


----------



## Tom985

ChrisZwolle said:


> Butt ugly.


Steel gets butt ugly, too. hno:

Paint and pressure washing, anyone? :banana:


----------



## hoosier

WA said:


> WOW ^^ I wish they had those here in MA instead of these uneffiecient cloverleafs.


Those stack interchanges require A LOT of space- Massachusetts decimated its inner cities with freeways and the required interchanges. I think the state shouldn't compound the problem by tearing down MORE property to satisfy the car.


----------



## Snowguy716

ChrisZwolle said:


> Not quite a stack, but this is how concrete in the Netherlands looks after 40 years...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Butt ugly.


We paint the bridges here so they don't look like that after 40 years.

Then again... one of our bridges just fell into the river after 40 years.


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## I-275westcoastfl

I've always wondered why they don't pressure wash the concrete or something because all the highways here except the brand new ones look like that picture.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-76 in Philadelphia really needs a major overhaul... look at this 1940's freeway...


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## Paddington

Stack interchanges are problematic in the snowbelt (actually even places like DC and Atlanta have few of them) because the ramps freeze up in the winter time.


----------



## dl3000

Look at LA if you want to see lots of aged stack interchanges. Granted, the smog does a lot of damage im sure.


----------



## architect77

North Carolina uses these pre-rusted steel beams/girders almost exclusively except along the coast. It's hard to distinguish newer flyovers from the older ones.

This 2004 photo is the improved I-85 and US70 interchange in Durham. Previously I-85 southbound didn't have any access to US70 eastbound, and US70 westbound merged with I-85 into the left passing lane.


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## architect77

As Greensboro's urban loop begins to take shape with completed sections of various signed routes, NCDOT had always planned to re-route I-40 onto the southwest quadrant to bypass the old route's "death valley" interchange, and NC definitely loves the "bypass".

Soon afterwards, complaints about noise began, and more importantly NCDOT realized that by not re-routing I-40 the state would increase it's total Interstate mileage and in turn get about $8 million more federal funds annually.

Here is a hokey news report from Greensboro laden with inaccuracies from the reporter as well as a clueless citizen. I'm from the Raleigh/Durham area where the local newcasts are a little more sophisticated than this:
OOOPS! It will only link to youtube since embedding disabled by user. Sorry.


----------



## mexico15

i love american highways, since i was a kid, the expalin all in her signals, hope one day i could drive one of those


----------



## ChrisZwolle

architect77 said:


> As Greensboro's urban loop begins to take shape with completed sections of various signed routes, NCDOT had always planned to re-route I-40 onto the southwest quadrant to bypass the old route's "death valley" interchange, and NC definitely loves the "bypass".
> 
> Soon afterwards, complaints about noise began, and more importantly NCDOT realized that by not re-routing I-40 the state would increase it's total Interstate mileage and in turn get about $8 million more federal funds annually.


I still don't understand the current routing of I-40 and I-85 through the Greensboro area.

As far as I know the mainline I-40 and I-85 routings are like this (thus not counting Business Routes)









But it might be different, for example, I-40 could run further south and I-85 could run further north. But in my opinion, my map makes the most sense, creating direct routes, and as less concurrencies as possible.


----------



## FM 2258

^^

I'm also confused as hell about 40 and 85 as well as 73.


----------



## architect77

ChrisZwolle said:


> I still don't understand the current routing of I-40 and I-85 through the Greensboro area.
> 
> As far as I know the mainline I-40 and I-85 routings are like this (thus not counting Business Routes)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it might be different, for example, I-40 could run further south and I-85 could run further north. But in my opinion, my map makes the most sense, creating direct routes, and as less concurrencies as possible.


You have it absolutely correct. NCDOT had envisioned shifting the I-40 mainline onto the southern portion of the future loop and did so initially until previously mentioned issues prompted them to return to the old route through town.


----------



## dl3000

What would you call the little connector between 85 and 40 at Holden Farms and Woodlea?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

US 70 and probably a Business Route 85.


----------



## architect77

dl3000 said:


> What would you call the little connector between 85 and 40 at Holden Farms and Woodlea?


I believe it is I-73 or I-74.
Here's that new sw quadrant. I don't mind repeating that NC can build some damn roads now...






I'm not familiar with the various "future" interstates planned there. And of course Winston-Salem will be getting it's own loop as well- I haven't a clue as to how it will be signed.

The old I-40 route (now business 40) that went through downtown Winston-Salem was awesome. It had steep grades and nuzzled right up beside the older Gotham-styled highrises. Very "northeast urban" flavor...


----------



## dl3000

Ah, I see now.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

North Carolina is the fastest growing state east of the Mississippi. The state grew from 6.6 million in 1990 to 9.1 million in 2007. And even half the counties declined in population, so there's a major shift towards the urban centers of NC plus additional population growth in those urban centers.

Projects I think would be useful:
* complete I-540 around Raleigh
* complete I-840 around Greensboro
* complete I-485 around Charlotte
* turn US 1 into a freeway from Rockingham to Raleigh and Henderson
* turn US 29 into a freeway between Greensboro and Danville, VA
* turn US 74 into a freeway from Charlotte to Wilmington
* turn US 421 into a freeway from Greensboro to Fayetteville
* construct a loop around Winston-Salem


----------



## J N Winkler

The Interstate beltways around Raleigh, Charlotte, and Greensboro are already in the pipeline, but completion of I-540 has been delayed by money problems and now the NCTA is building part of it. US 29 is already a freeway between Greensboro and Danville--it was when I drove it in 1995. Most of the others are at various stages in planning.

Edit: I see US 29 does have a short length of expressway with at-grade intersections from just north of urban Greensboro to just north of NC 150, the remainder being full freeway. But this length also has interchanges at select major crossings. I believe upgrades are also being planned. I think the Danville bypass was finished after 1995. I know (having seen the construction plans when it was advertised in 2003) that the Madison Heights bypass has been finished, though there is still a missing link SE of Lynchburg and some work still to be done between Danville and Lynchburg. IMV the main obstacles on US 29 between Greensboro and DC are Charlottesville and maybe Gainesville or Warrenton.


----------



## architect77

1) As much as I want to agree with you I think Georgia grew more than NC from 1990 to present. I think Georgia currently has 9.6 million residents and ranks as the 9th most populous state.
2) Construction on Raleigh I-540 western leg began 2 weeks ago and will be the state's first toll road. It will not have toll booths however. Residents firmly contend that they will avoid the toll section.
3) The last remaining section of Charlotte's I-485 loop will be completed within the next 2 years. Charlotte definitely has the state's most urgent transportation needs.
4) NCDOT has completed many comprehensive studies on many of the major corridors including US1 and US64 and US70. Their solutions include conversion into superstreets, limiting access, and the addition of HOV/HOT lanes.
5) Despite having one the highest gas tax rates in America however, the state can't even find the money to improve Charlotte's I-77/I-85 interchange, nor can it come up with the $330 million to replace the I-85 Yadkin River Bridge.
_______________________________
The good news is that high-speed rail from Charlotte to Raleigh to Washington, D.C. will become a reality within the next 5 years.


----------



## Stuck in Bama

ChrisZwolle said:


> North Carolina is the fastest growing state east of the Mississippi. The state grew from 6.6 million in 1990 to 9.1 million in 2007. And even half the counties declined in population, so there's a major shift towards the urban centers of NC plus additional population growth in those urban centers.
> 
> Projects I think would be useful:
> * complete I-540 around Raleigh
> * complete I-840 around Greensboro
> * complete I-485 around Charlotte
> * turn US 1 into a freeway from Rockingham to Raleigh and Henderson
> * turn US 29 into a freeway between Greensboro and Danville, VA
> * turn US 74 into a freeway from Charlotte to Wilmington
> * turn US 421 into a freeway from Greensboro to Fayetteville
> * construct a loop around Winston-Salem


You might wanna add to that list adding lanes to I-95. Its a nice, rural route through eastern NC, but it was kinda congested. US 74/I-74 section was recently opened near Lumberton including the interchange with I-95. 

I-95 in South Carolina from Florence to the NC state line, looks like the interstate time forgot.hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Dallas-Fort Worth: 1987 - 2010*

A nice comparison out of my 1987 and 2010 Rand McNally atlases of the DFW Metroplex.

1. DFW in 1987.
Dallas has only a few suburbs, and the area between Dallas and Fort Worth is still half empty. The Dallas North Tollway (DNT) only reaches I-635 and the President George Bush Turnpike (PGBT) hasn't been constructed yet. Carrollton was a far unsignificant suburb at that time. I-20 ran further north, via what is now I-635/US 80. Loop 12 wasn't a freeway yet. SH 121 ended near Euless and SH 114 ended just north of Irving, which was a smaller city back then.









2. DFW in 2010. 
The DFW area has exploded and doesn't even fit on two pages anymore, as opposed to 1/3rd of a page 23 years earlier. New mega suburbs like Plano, Frisco and McKinney have developed. The area between Dallas and Fort Worth has been fully urbanized, as has the area around the DFW International Airport. Relatively few has changed around Fort Worth, roadwise.


----------



## Tom985

ChrisZwolle said:


> Projects I think would be useful:
> 
> * turn US 1 into a freeway from Rockingham to Raleigh and Henderson


I doubt it. The route looks good on a map, but when I drove on it last year from Apex to Camden SC, it was very lightly traveled.


----------



## architect77

ChrisZwolle said:


> *Dallas-Fort Worth: 1987 - 2010*
> 
> A nice comparison out of my 1987 and 2010 Rand McNally atlases of the DFW Metroplex.
> 
> 1. DFW in 1987.
> Dallas has only a few suburbs, and the area between Dallas and Fort Worth is still half empty. The Dallas North Tollway (DNT) only reaches I-635 and the President George Bush Turnpike (PGBT) hasn't been constructed yet. Carrollton was a far unsignificant suburb at that time. I-20 ran further north, via what is now I-635/US 80. Loop 12 wasn't a freeway yet. SH 121 ended near Euless and SH 114 ended just north of Irving, which was a smaller city back then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. DFW in 2010.
> The DFW area has exploded and doesn't even fit on two pages anymore, as opposed to 1/3rd of a page 23 years earlier. New mega suburbs like Plano, Frisco and McKinney have developed. The area between Dallas and Fort Worth has been fully urbanized, as has the area around the DFW International Airport. Relatively few has changed around Fort Worth, roadwise.


The difference in the two maps is astounding. At 21 years of age, I drove to California and remember heading west and upon a glance northward seeing the Dallas skyline for the first time. It seemed huge even back then...


----------



## architect77

Here is "10 Questions" with North Carolina's new head of the DOT. Some of it is interesting, especially regarding the cost of highway signage for private businesses...

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/5769655/


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## Tom985

architect77 said:


> Here is "10 Questions" with North Carolina's new head of the DOT. Some of it is interesting, especially regarding the cost of highway signage for private businesses...
> 
> http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/5769655/


How were the I-40, I-540 and I-785 projects "botched"?


----------



## J N Winkler

I-40: they are talking about the failed concrete overlay on the stretch between Durham and Raleigh which had to be fixed at many millions of dollars in added cost.

I-785: Pavement was too thin and made with too little binder, and broke up under heavier-than-anticipated traffic. The freeway was originally designed and constructed as US 117 (IIRC) and was upgraded to Interstate long after it was possible to change the pavement design.


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## ChrisZwolle

Perhaps a bit late, but still interesting to report, on july 9th, the first new span of the I-10 Twin Bridges between New Orleans and Slidell opened. It will replace the destroyed and then repaired bridge which was considered too low to handle storm surges. The new bridge will be much higher above the water (30 feet) with a top of 80 feet near Slidell to allow ships to pass. The other span will open in 2011. When completed, the capacity will be increased from 4 to 6 lanes.

You can see it U/C here:









location:


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## Mateusz

God I never understood US roads system and stuff. I don't find US highways interesting comparing to european roads


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## ChrisZwolle

I think US Highways, Interstate Highways and State Routes are far more interesting than the European roads. There are way more numbering oddities, more interesting road number shields and general oddities than in Europe. The vast size and diverse landscapes also allows for interesting stuff.

Although Europe also has it's charms with all the different signage systems.


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## I-275westcoastfl

Mateusz said:


> God I never understood US roads system and stuff. I don't find US highways interesting comparing to european roads


What is difficult to understand?


----------



## J N Winkler

Quite a lot. Funding distributions, the highway planning process, the role of MPOs and federal government agencies like EPA and USACE, etc. Even at the level of highway trivia, there are things like numbering patterns in various states, the distinction between primary and secondary state highway systems in some states, variations in signing practices (which in turn are related to subtleties in how the _MUTCD_ is formulated and the presence or absence of state supplements or own-state replacements for it), etc. There are similar complexities everywhere (Spain and France come to mind), but they are only just now starting to be discovered and discussed since those countries have lagged the US in putting their road-related materials online.

Specialized discussion of US road issues hardly ever happens on SkyscraperCity--there just isn't the knowledge base for it here. The Usenet newsgroup misc.transport.road has historically had a lot of in-depth discussion (and is accessible through Google Groups), and the AARoads forum is increasingly becoming a popular place for it as well. There are country-based forums now which achieve a similarly high level of specialization for countries or regions outside the US (SABRE for the UK, SARA for France, Wegenforum.nl for the Low Countries, etc.).


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## ChrisZwolle

J N Winkler said:


> Specialized discussion of US road issues hardly ever happens on SkyscraperCity--there just isn't the knowledge base for it here.


Yeah, we need more Americans over here 

The most basic form of the American road system is not that hard to understand; Interstate Highways/US Highways -> State Routes -> County Routes (or equivalent). The numbering patterns of Interstates and US Highways are also not really hard to understand; even numbers run west-east, odd numbers run south-north. They increase from west to east for I-routes and east to west for US routes. 

State Routes are more different, I usually cannot find any patterns, zoning or other system, so they tend to be randomly assigned. The numbers can be reused in every state, but there are usually no US/I/SR numbers with the same number. If there is a US 50, there isn't a SR 50 or I-50 in the same state.

Another interesting thing is that not only Interstate Highways are freeways, but US Highways and State Routes can be designed as freeways too. Some roads have a somewhat lower design standard, but can still be considered freeway (equivalents). Some freeways are even unnumbered, like the many Parkways in the greater New York area, which only have a reference number. In other states, like Georgia, US and I-routes also have a reference State Route number. In areas like Los Angeles or San Francisco, State Route freeways are just as important as Interstate Highways.


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## I-275westcoastfl

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yeah, we need more Americans over here
> 
> The most basic form of the American road system is not that hard to understand; Interstate Highways/US Highways -> State Routes -> County Routes (or equivalent). The numbering patterns of Interstates and US Highways are also not really hard to understand; even numbers run west-east, odd numbers run south-north. They increase from west to east for I-routes and east to west for US routes.
> 
> State Routes are more different, I usually cannot find any patterns, zoning or other system, so they tend to be randomly assigned. The numbers can be reused in every state, but there are usually no US/I/SR numbers with the same number. If there is a US 50, there isn't a SR 50 or I-50 in the same state.
> 
> Another interesting thing is that not only Interstate Highways are freeways, but US Highways and State Routes can be designed as freeways too. Some roads have a somewhat lower design standard, but can still be considered freeway (equivalents). Some freeways are even unnumbered, like the many Parkways in the greater New York area, which only have a reference number. In other states, like Georgia, US and I-routes also have a reference State Route number. In areas like Los Angeles or San Francisco, State Route freeways are just as important as Interstate Highways.


Great summary! :cheers1:


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## ea1969

Just to add that 3-digit Interstate numbers are derived from a 1- or 2-digit number by pre-appending a digit (ie. I-275 is related to I-75). If the first digit is odd, the highway is a spur into a city. If it is even, it is a route through or around a city. 3-digit numbers are designated in each state separately; they can be many Interstate highways with the same number in different states.


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## ChrisZwolle

Yes, this works for US Highways too, though 3-digit US Highways are often much more important than 3-digit Interstates, and are often hundreds of miles long too. The US 381 is nearly 1900 miles long for instance.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-35 is interesting in Kansas. First, it runs through a whole lot of nothing, but it's routing is also interesting, since it veers east for quite some distance between Wichita and Kansas City. I kinda get the idea that it wasn't suppose to serve Wichita in the first place, but run via Tulsa to Oklahoma City.


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## ChrisZwolle

Today is a special day in the history of the Interstate Highway system.

It has been exactly 90 years that on september 6th, 1919, the first Transcontinental Motor Convoy has reached San Francisco after 62 days of driving from Washington D.C. Everything west of Illinois was not paved, and often only dirt tracks. 

Dwight D. Eisenhower was on this convoy, and his experiences with the German Autobahn system had propelled the creation of the Interstate Highway System as we know it today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcontinental_Motor_Convoy


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> It has been exactly 90 years that on september 6th, 1919, the first Transcontinental Motor Convoy has reached San Francisco after 62 days of driving from Washington D.C. Everything west of Illinois was not paved, and often only dirt tracks.


Now that's what I call 'a lot of nothing'.


----------



## hkskyline

*Investigator: Some safety checks still lacking for US road travel of Mexican trucks, buses *
2 September 2009

WASHINGTON (AP) - A government auditor says more work is needed to ensure the safety of Mexican trucks and buses awaiting permission to drive on U.S. roadways.

The Transportation Department's inspector general made public its latest report on Mexican truck and bus safety Wednesday. The audit says some states are not consistently reporting traffic convictions of people driving in the U.S. with Mexican drivers' licenses. Also, bus inspections are not being done, are done infrequently or have other problems.

The report says officials have made headway on other safety measures.

The North American Free Trade Agreement granted Mexican trucks and buses access to American roadways. Congress has refused to comply because of safety and job loss concerns.


----------



## bozata90

I've read all the thread and I find the issue a kind of discrimination with each country discriminating the citizens of the other. For the insurance issue - you should think of that kind of solution, that we have in Europe - international insurances. It works pretty easy - I buy here a policy (the so-called "Green card"), which covers like 30 or 32 countries. Then, when I leave the EU with my car I am obliged to show this peace of paper to the officer at the border. If I do not have it, than he would simply not let my in with my car. That's it.

With the language problem - begin implementing pictogram signs. I would not agree with Chris that all the truck drivers here in Europe have to speak a foreign language. I am acquainted to quite a lot that do not speak any fluently and still drive their trucks for more than two decades. In every case you have a mobile phone and you can call a person who speaks English any time. Than Germans have some extracts of their laws published in almost every European language, so even if you can not understand why are you fined, you will know how much you have to pay, and then make an objection from your country. And, last but not least - most of the international documents for TIR transport have international names - like "carnet", "green card" (although English, it is understandable everywhere), and for buses - "Interbus", "Assor" etc.


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## HAWC1506

Check out these photos of I-90! http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/sets/72157615121848716/

Absolutely horrendous.


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## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, that's bad. The problem is that concrete lasts that long, that DOT's don't have much of an incentive to replace it, so they probably don't plan ahead with budgets to replace it. Once you have to replace it, it usually means a complete overhaul of the pavement because it's like 40 - 50 years old. I don't know that much about concrete, because we do not use it in the Netherlands, but I think current concrete pavements are much better to resist traffic and weather than it was in the 1960's. As you can see in Poland for instance, they don't lay individual concrete slabs anymore, but pour it so it's one big piece of concrete.


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## Albaneren

Good, but not good enough to be compared with the European motorways.


----------



## pwalker

ChrisZwolle said:


> Today is a special day in the history of the Interstate Highway system.
> 
> It has been exactly 90 years that on september 6th, 1919, the first Transcontinental Motor Convoy has reached San Francisco after 62 days of driving from Washington D.C. Everything west of Illinois was not paved, and often only dirt tracks.
> 
> Dwight D. Eisenhower was on this convoy, and his experiences with the German Autobahn system had propelled the creation of the Interstate Highway System as we know it today.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcontinental_Motor_Convoy


I think a lot of people in the US don't realize how influential Eisenhower was in creating our current highway system. Without him, it probably would have been built in some form eventually, but with him it was built in a relatively short period of time, with most major construction in the first decade and a half. In the mountain west, many of the late 50's/early 60's infrastructure still exist...I guess both good and bad, in that it was built at a high quality standard, but the lifespans of a lot of this construction are rapidly coming to an end.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

pwalker said:


> I think a lot of people in the US don't realize how influential Eisenhower was in creating our current highway system. Without him, it probably would have been built in some form eventually, but with him it was built in a relatively short period of time, with most major construction in the first decade and a half. In the mountain west, many of the late 50's/early 60's infrastructure still exist...I guess both good and bad, in that it was built at a high quality standard, but the lifespans of a lot of this construction are rapidly coming to an end.


Exactly when built the system was the best in the world, however we lack the leadership and funds to maintain and expand upon the system properly.


----------



## Gaeus

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Exactly when built the system was the best in the world, however we lack the leadership and funds to maintain and expand upon the system properly.


We do have the leadership and barrels to expand but the controversial pork barrel and bureaucracy lead to its demise. That's the reason why the first Bush Administration killed the idea.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Gaeus said:


> We do have the leadership and barrels to expand but the controversial pork barrel and bureaucracy lead to its demise. That's the reason why the first Bush Administration killed the idea.


Meaning we don't have the leadership lol...


----------



## ADCS

Gaeus said:


> We do have the leadership and barrels to expand but the controversial pork barrel and bureaucracy lead to its demise. That's the reason why the first Bush Administration killed the idea.


U.S. won't raise federal fuel taxes to the necessary maintenance level. That's the biggest reason. The second biggest reason is that states have ways of making federal highway dollars disappear once they reach the state coffers.


----------



## Stir

TOUR OF WEST USA 2009 - Hoover Dam 
When traveling to Las Vegas, we've never missed a visit to a nearby power plant on the Colorado River. Tou dam is a dam HOOVER (HOOVER DAM) on ROUTE 93 with the largest U.S. water area Lake Mead. 



http://www.rychnovinky.cz/en/2076-tour-of-west-usa-2009-hoover-dam.html


----------



## dl3000

ADCS said:


> U.S. won't raise federal fuel taxes to the necessary maintenance level. That's the biggest reason. The second biggest reason is that states have ways of making federal highway dollars disappear once they reach the state coffers.


So true


----------



## ChrisZwolle

We just need a couple of bridges collapsing, if possible with a lot of deaths, to wake up the American public that a gas tax raise is just needed to fund the detoriating infrastructure. hno:


----------



## HAWC1506

ChrisZwolle said:


> We just need a couple of bridges collapsing, if possible with a lot of deaths, to wake up the American public that a gas tax raise is just needed to fund the detoriating infrastructure. hno:


Oh whenever the next earthquake is, Washington is going to be hit haaaarrrrrd. The SR 99 viaduct is 40 years old and has been sinking ever since 2001. The SR 520 floating bridge is also about 40 years old and cracks every other month.

Neither will be replaced until 2015.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

You guys do realize that even if the gas tax was raised it might not change a thing, the fact is the government puts a lot of money elsewhere instead of into infrastructure. I remember hearing only a certain percent of the money collected from gas taxes actually goes back into infrastructure.


----------



## J N Winkler

It's about 90%, which is better than in a lot of other places. The problem is that the gas tax is so low that new capital construction (which is needed in many areas that have significant inward population transfer) gets squeezed.


----------



## Tom 958

Straightening a curve on I-59 in Laurel MS:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=31.685067,-89.137509&spn=0.004419,0.009055&t=k&z=17

I've only been there once, over thirty years ago and in the wee hours of the morning, but I'd always wondered why that part of I-59 was so narrow and curvy. Perhaps it was designed in the pre-Interstate era.


----------



## mattec

or maybe they couldn't get the right of way for it


----------



## Tom 958

mattec said:


> or maybe they couldn't get the right of way for it


Maybe. I found some links on Wikipedia...



http://www.meridianstar.com/local/local_story_297000403.html said:


> The S-curve was touted in 1956 to be the answer for a failing downtown economy. The three-quarter mile section of Interstate 59 instead became a dangerous, and sometimes deadly, section of roadway that attached itself to the city of Laurel in a detrimental way.
> 
> “At first all we had was a plan,” said Larry L. “Butch” Brown, executive director of the Mississippi Department of Transportation (MDOT). “But local government got together with their state and federal political leaders and with state agencies to find ways to get this project on the move. This reconstruction project is actually 15 years ahead of schedule, thanks in large part to the innovative financing available to city officials.”
> 
> Brown was speaking of MDOT’s HELP Program (Highway Enhancement through Local Partnerships) to secure $32 million to advance fund the project. HELP gives local governments the ability to issue bonds for large projects such as the S-curve reconstruction. Brown said that forward thinking boosted the project to the point it is today, in the actual construction phase.
> 
> 
> 1955: Construction began on relocated United States Highway 11 through Laurel. This project included earthwork and bridge construction.
> 
> 1956: The Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956 provided a means of funding for the planned interstate system. U.S. Highway 11 in Laurel, already under construction, was redesignated as Interstate 59.


I can't believe that a local government had to chip in on the financing of an Interstate highway project! Isn't that what Interstate Maintenance funding is for?

Most rural Interstates parallel existing routes a few miles away, passing just outside of larger towns. But if the original intent of this section was to serve as a US 11 bypass with existing (or widened) US 11 continuing in use as the area's major through route, then closely skirting the edges of the mid '50's urbanized area in order to shorten the bypass' length would make a lot of sense. 

Even without the S curve, this section has a surprisingly urban feel with its narrow median and dainty scale. If I drove this section of I-59 often, I would appreciate the break from driving on liberally designed but monotonous rural Interstate.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's an interesting section of Interstate 59, I never really noticed it. Apparantly, they're straightening this one out.


----------



## J N Winkler

Tom 958 said:


> I can't believe that a local government had to chip in on the financing of an Interstate highway project! Isn't that what Interstate Maintenance funding is for?


No. What they are doing on I-59 is a relocation, for which NH money (all Interstates are on the National Highway System and NH funding is designed to pay for capital improvements on the NHS) would typically be used. IM money is intended to pay for resurfacing, restoration, rehabilitation, and reconstruction (4R) on the Interstate system, and I don't think straightening the curve qualifies as reconstruction because it involves an alignment change with new right-of-way.

BTW, IM money was originally only for 3R--the missing R being reconstruction.


----------



## Tom 958

J N Winkler said:


> No. What they are doing on I-59 is a relocation, for which NH money (all Interstates are on the National Highway System and NH funding is designed to pay for capital improvements on the NHS) would typically be used. IM money is intended to pay for resurfacing, restoration, rehabilitation, and reconstruction (4R) on the Interstate system, and I don't think straightening the curve qualifies as reconstruction because it involves an alignment change with new right-of-way.
> 
> BTW, IM money was originally only for 3R--the missing R being reconstruction.


I'm not so sure about that. IM funding is pretty flexible, or at least it was when I was crossing swords with the FHWA ten years ago. This, for instance...









...was funded mainly through IM.

Maybe I'm wrong about IM-- if so, so be it. But still, if you look at the scale of new highway construction in Mississippi over the last ten years, it appears (at least to me) that there's no real shortage of money. Was it really necessary to build this two-headed monster as a temporary terminus for I-69?

The idea of using local funding to advance critical projects isn't a bad one-- I've advocated it myself in my own community, for this conversion of US 78 into an acceptable urban arterial, which was delayed for over a decade due to lack of a pathetically small amount of funding even as the county it's in raised and spent hundreds of millions in sales tax funds on other roads. But for an Interstate in a small town? That's just wrong.


----------



## ir desi

You're trying to bring logic to interstate construction?! Take a peak at I-180 in IL.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-180 does make some sense, there are no nearby bridges, and it was anticipated for a large steel plant. (which closed down the moment I-180 was constructed). 

However, things have to be seen in perspective. Back in the 60's, it was feasible to construct Interstates for low traffic volumes, heck, Europe and the U.S. had many railroads in the 1800's that would now be considered unprofitable. Most of them closed even before the second world war.


----------



## J N Winkler

Tom 958--I have heard about IM money being used to fund rest area renovations, but not new capital construction. Are you sure the capacity-expanding portions of that project weren't paid for with NH money? From my experience (not crossing swords with FHWA, but looking at some FHWA program guidance and examining numerous highway construction plans) it seems to be quite common to build projects with NH-IM funding designations, where presumably part of the project is paid for with NH money, another part with IM money, the distinction being made on FHWA federal-aid vouchers.


----------



## Tom 958

J N Winkler said:


> Tom 958--I have heard about IM money being used to fund rest area renovations, but not new capital construction. Are you sure the capacity-expanding portions of that project weren't paid for with NH money? From my experience (not crossing swords with FHWA, but looking at some FHWA program guidance and examining numerous highway construction plans) it seems to be quite common to build projects with NH-IM funding designations, where presumably part of the project is paid for with NH money, another part with IM money, the distinction being made on FHWA federal-aid vouchers.


A fair question, but, yes, I'm absolutely sure about it, because I questioned the funding mix in person and in writing repeatedly and in very explicit terms. I even tried to involved the GAO in the issue, though that went off the rails in a profoundly humorous way. hno:

FHWA's line was that the CD's were operational enhancements, not capacity additions, and that therefore they could be built with IM funding. Amusingly, their case was somewhat bolstered by the fact that one element of the project was a segment of CD road that was completely useless except as a construction detour-- that definitley wasn't a capacity addition! :nuts: Ditto the replacement of the old two lane interchange bridges with new ones having six to eight lanes.

There area couple of aspects of the situation I'd like to point out:

One, when I started dealing with this project in 1994. ISTEA was still a new thing. More importantly, President Clinton had been in office for less than two years, and attitudes at the FHWA's relevant offices were still very much stuck in the Reagan-Bush era. A fellow activist asked the head of the relevant FHWA office at the time what he thought FHWA's role was, and he replied that it was to get "their" (the states') funding to them as expeditiously as possible. So the mere fact that a certain funding allocation was agreed to by FHWA was rather irrelevant given what the agency considered as its duty.

Over time, Clinton-era perspectives took hold, with a strong assist from Atlanta's air quality crisis. But the pace was glacial, as was the undoing after Bush 43 came into office.

Two, at the time the funds provided to Georgia under IM were excessive-- major reconstructions of the kind that's now taking place on I-75 in south Georgia were simply not needed, and there was some scope for FHWA to use its judgement in allocating those funds to appropriate uses. Some could be reallocated to other funding categories; for the others, I suspect that FHWA applied a liberal interpretation to how IM funds could be used rather than attempting to assign them correctly. But I can't prove that.


----------



## He Named Thor

Took this one today. It's the Leo Frigo bridge, part of I-43 just before it meets US 41.










Being as tall as it is, you get a good view of the city, and on the other side Lake Michigan.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Amazing landscapes along I-80 in southwestern Wyoming.


----------



## Nexis

*My trip home on Sunday from Jersey City.
Christopher Columbus Ave West : Jersey City Skyway ahead : I-78*










*I-78 Turnpike Approach Road*









*Entering I-78*









*I-78 view Jersey City : Bergen-Layette Neighborhood *


















*This is the second Welcome to New Jersey Sign , the first one is at the traffic light intersections after the Holland Tunnel , but this is the biggest sign.*




































*Crossing Route 440*









*Newark Bay Bridge*









*Looking North*









*Looking back at the Jersey City / Manhattan Skyline*


















*Looking North : you can see the Pulaski Skyway , Jersey City : Hackensack Waterfront Condos*


















*City of Newark Skyline*



























*Looking North CSX Railway Bridge*









*Port Newark : Cargo Storage area*



























*Port Newark : Carport*


















*New Jersey Turnpike Northbound Ramps*









*Newark Airport Interchange I-78 Toll Plaza*









*Incoming Plane*


















*US 1/9 Flyovers*


















*Route 21 Expressway overpass*









*I-78 Express Lanes in Newark*


















*Crossing the Northeast Corridor*









*I-78 West Express Lanes*



























*Crossing the Garden State Parkway*



























*Thats it for now,i'll post I-287 later

~Corey*


----------



## pwalker

ChrisZwolle said:


> Amazing landscapes along I-80 in southwestern Wyoming.


That's near Green River, Wyoming. Notice all the trucks, and the lack of autos. That's 'cause hardly anyone lives in this area, but the truck route is a major east-west route between California and the midwest. 

Ironic that the next posts are pics of the one of the most densely populated areas in the US, right after one of the least! 

Coincidence probably, but a nice comparison!


----------



## Nexis

*New York Thruway East/Southbound I-287/87
Tappan Zee Bridge Eastbound*



















*The Fog yesterday shurroded the Rockland County side Mountains with unique look to it*














































*Looking South, on a clear day you can see the George Washington Bridge & upper Manhattan*


















*After lunch,we went back over the bridg*e


















*Looking North at the Tarrytown Marina*


















*Looking North up the Hudson River*









*Eastbound Span view*

















































































*Exiting at Exit 10*


















*On the ramp*









*I hope you liked it, more will come later

~Corey*


----------



## Bobek_Azbest

Lovely weather. :lol:


----------



## Verso

^^ I like driving in such a weather for some reason. Nice bridge again.



Nexis said:


>


Funny left sign, like a hat. How is 'Nyack' pronounced? [nyaeck] or [niaeck / nayaeck] (if you know what I mean)?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Oh yeah that weird sign, I have seen it before. I believe there are also some boxed exit names in that area.


----------



## nerdly_dood

I'd pronounce that "nyack"... 

(if it helps, the Spanish spelling would be "ñac")


----------



## Verso

^^ Ah, I know "ñ".


----------



## FM 2258

Love that picture of Interstate 87. 

So there's New York, Newark and Nyack....interesting how close those names could sound if spoken quickly.


----------



## mgk920

^^
(hehehehehe)

Unlike you, I make ZERO political statements when new I-route segments are completed. If it's a new chunk of interstate that has reached completion and I find out about it, I'll celebrate its opening in this forvm - regardless of where in the USA it is and whatever the events are that preceded its appearance. You'll find numerous postings of that kind from me in here over the past couple of years.

:cheers1:

Mike


----------



## AUchamps

hoosier said:


> I don't know why you are celebrating this. I-69 is an enormous boondoggle. The state doesn't even half any funding to finish the second half of the interstate, and that is assuming the pot of money it earmarked for the first three sections is enough to build them.


Um, "Major Moves"? My man Mitch has I-69 covered. Don't worry about the future, it's gonna be cheaper to convert 67 to Interstate between Bedford and Indy anyway.


----------



## Professor L Gee

zaphod said:


> I don't get why it has that number?
> 
> Nowhere in New York is both east of 95 and north-south oriented for a two digit I-99? Why the **** is it in Pennsylvania? If that's how highways are going to be numbered in the future then I propose I-35 in Austin be renamed I-420 because I say so
> 
> Now it would be neat if 101 became I-3 or an I-1 along the California coast. Though I suppose the Hawaii "interstates" have those numbers.


Two reasons:

1) Ran out of numbers for that part of the grid.
2) The I-99 designation was written into law by then-Congressman Bud Shuster.


----------



## FCE

HERE'S AN OLD PIC OF ME ON THE 10 FREEWAY IN LOS ANGELES.











SOME OTHER LA PICS.


----------



## HAWC1506

^^Only in America.


----------



## FCE

HAWC1506 said:


> ^^Only in America.


Not quite. Lowriding is real big in Canada and Japan as well. Here's some pics from Vancouver and Toronto. I have a lot of Vancouver pics on my pc, but don't feel like posting from there. 

***MODS DON'T BAN ME.....I KNOW I'M ABOUT TO GO OFF TOPIC FOR A SECOND. I'M JUST TRYING TO SHOW MY FRIEND THAT LOWRIDING IS INTERNATIONAL NOW. TRIED TO KEEP A FREEWAY THEME. PLUS, SOMETHING TO LOOK AT****











































































JAPAN


----------



## FCE

If any of you ever visit LA, the highways here are real nice. The 710 freeway has a lot of potholes in the far right lanes b/c of heavy truck traffic. I've banged my rims more than once on that highway.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

^^ Since this is a "United States Interstate Highways" thread, we expect photos of highways not cars. And the main topic is highways not cars. If you want to show your car to others and talk about that kind of stuff, I suggest you to visit www.automotiveforums.com or any other auto-oriented web site.


----------



## FCE

Rebasepoiss said:


> ^^ Since this is a "United States Interstate Highways" thread, we expect photos of highways not cars. And the main topic is highways not cars. If you want to show your car to others and talk about that kind of stuff, I suggest you to visit www.automotiveforums.com or any other auto-oriented web site.


I know. Thats why I placed the disclaimer about being banned and going off-topic. I was simply trying to inform the other poster; thats all. I'm on another forum for the car, but it was posted b/c I seen folks posting pics of the I-10 in FLA, so I posted an interesting pic of I-10 on the west coast and of the car pool viaduct on the 110 freeway through South LA. Thought the cars made the pics more interesting. Apparently not. Didn't mean to upset anyone.


----------



## FCE

I've noticed that Seattle, Portland, and LA (not sure about the Bay Area or SD) all have 405 freeways that essentially bypass the city centers. Is that a west coast thing?


----------



## FM 2258

FCE said:


> I've noticed that Seattle, Portland, and LA (not sure about the Bay Area or SD) all have 405 freeways that essentially bypass the city centers. Is that a west coast thing?


Interstate 5 goes to the heart of the city while 405 is the "bypass." Almost like any other three digit interstate that starts with an even number in a big city.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

405 barely functions as a bypass, since it's just as congested as I-5. The Los Angeles metropolitan area is so big that's it's unavoidable for north-south traffic. There's no other option than to drive on 300,000 + AADT freeways.

In fact, nearly no American city has a bypass that's actually interesting for through traffic. They're either congested suburban freeways, or too far out to make a difference (like Beltway 8 in Houston or I-278 and I-287 in New York)


----------



## FCE

FM 2258 said:


> Interstate 5 goes to the heart of the city while 405 is the "bypass." Almost like any other three digit interstate that starts with an even number in a big city.


Interesting info about the three digit highways starting with even numbers.


----------



## FM 2258

ChrisZwolle said:


> 405 barely functions as a bypass, since it's just as congested as I-5. The Los Angeles metropolitan area is so big that's it's unavoidable for north-south traffic. There's no other option than to drive on 300,000 + AADT freeways.
> 
> In fact, nearly no American city has a bypass that's actually interesting for through traffic. They're either congested suburban freeways, or too far out to make a difference (like Beltway 8 in Houston or I-278 and I-287 in New York)


True....the only place I know of that acts as a bypass is when drivers are going from Austin to Corpus Christi through San Antonio. IH 35 to IH 410 then south on IH 37. Much faster than 35 to 37 since Interstate 410 is pretty much rural on the southeastern side of San Antonio.


----------



## FCE

ChrisZwolle said:


> 405 barely functions as a bypass, since it's just as congested as I-5. The Los Angeles metropolitan area is so big that's it's unavoidable for north-south traffic. There's no other option than to drive on 300,000 + AADT freeways.
> 
> In fact, nearly no American city has a bypass that's actually interesting for through traffic. They're either congested suburban freeways, or too far out to make a difference (like Beltway 8 in Houston or I-278 and I-287 in New York)


You're right about the 405 being congested. I use to have to commute through the 405/101 interchange in LA....it sucked. I ended up taking a route that shot north around that interchange and was at least 13 miles longer, but would get me to my destination 15 minutes sooner. Go figure.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

FCE said:


> Interesting info about the three digit highways starting with even numbers.


Even numbers = beltway / bypass
Odd numbers = spur


----------



## Nexis

*Entering I-87 South @ The Newburgh Interchange*





































*Approaching the Harrimen Toll Plaza Construction site*




































*Harrimen Toll Plaza , under Reconstruction*


















*After the Toll Site *



























*Mileage Sign on I-87 South*




































*Sloatsburg Service area*


















*Approaching Exit 15A in Hillburn,NY, note the Japanese Restaurant on the hill.*




































*Approaching the I-287 / I-87 Interchange in Suffern,NY and Southern part of the Interchange is in Mahwah,NJ*



















*I-287 south entering New Jersey*









*Bonus Images from the Japanese Restaurant windows*


















*I hope you guys all liked it, more to come soon*

*~Corey*


----------



## Robosteve

ChrisZwolle said:


> 405 barely functions as a bypass, since it's just as congested as I-5. The Los Angeles metropolitan area is so big that's it's unavoidable for north-south traffic. There's no other option than to drive on 300,000 + AADT freeways.
> 
> In fact, nearly no American city has a bypass that's actually interesting for through traffic. They're either congested suburban freeways, or too far out to make a difference (like Beltway 8 in Houston or I-278 and I-287 in New York)


Couldn't they solve this problem by constructing express/collector lanes, or by simply closing off some of the local interchanges along the freeway and building separate local access roads?


----------



## mattec

Squiggles said:


> No kidding. It's only 2X2 for part of its trip through downtown, so naturally it gets jammed horribly at rush hour. hno:


well, I don't think they could do much about it, it looks boxed in by development.


----------



## ttownfeen

FCE said:


> I've noticed that Seattle, Portland, and LA (not sure about the Bay Area or SD) all have 405 freeways that essentially bypass the city centers. Is that a west coast thing?


Well, as I-5 only goes through west coast cities, then yes. San Diego has Interstate 805 as its major metropolitan bypass (though as Chris points out, it's probably too congested to really be bypass - it's more like an alternate freeway). Interstate 5 stays well EAST of the SF area.

I think California State Highway 99 should be given an interstate number when it's completed to interstate standards between Grapeville and Sacremento. Not one of it's own since it's splits off from and rejoins I-5. It should either be a 3di child of I-5, or it and I-5 should be re-designated I-5E and I-5W between Grapevine and Sacremento.


----------



## matty89

^^ Yep they did. Also many of our motorways are being upgraded (Gateway & Ipswich Motorways and Centenary Highway) plus 2 tunnels at the moment. 

Like someone else said on this site, - Brisbane is a construction site at the moment.


----------



## Nexis

*That was the old New Jersey Turnpike Western Spur Toll Gate....
This is the new one, built in 2000-2001 i think , i'm quiet sure on that though*:nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Cash tolls are something of the past anyway. Texas has planned to reconstruct all cash toll plazas into Zipcash or TollTags.


----------



## V22 Osprey

E-ZPass lol.

FasTrak FTW.

Although I agree, too much concrete.I think that's the main reason why our freeways look more crappy than they actually are.Concrete is just plain ugly.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

V22 Osprey said:


> Although I agree, too much concrete.I think that's the main reason why our freeways look more crappy than they actually are.Concrete is just plain ugly.


The problem with concrete is not only that it is ugly. Concrete is designed to last longer than asphalt, significantly longer. When asphalt reaches its age limits, suddenly a lot of potholes and cracks appear, so the state governments are forced to deal with this. In case of concrete, it degrades much slowly with time, so often the states are not willing to spend money on it right away, instead waiting for up to several decades before dealing with it. This was (still is?) the case with I-80 in California near Nevada border. I posted pictures of the huge cracks on that motorway back in 2007. When you drive on that stretch of I-80, you literally become concerned for the well-being of your suspension. Honestly, I have only seen this bad situation in my home country of Ukraine/Russia. In my opinion, it is unacceptable. I don't care what they do - raise taxes or charge toll, but fix this damn thing! hno: 

American public is against fuel taxes, but at the same time they want well-maintained highways. Well, you can't have it both ways.


----------



## V22 Osprey

Well no one wants to get charged taxes, number one. Two, gas prices are already as high as it is, the government starts charging fuel taxes then there will be no one left to use the freeways in the first place, as no one will drive their car anymore, and then if no one is driving anymore, why maintain the freeways?I dunno, you Europeans paying $7 bucks per gallon is insane.**** that.I would definitely stop driving and take a train/bus by that point or get an alternative fuel car.Also, I doubt any American is willing to pay nearly 10 bucks a gallon just to make freeways look prettier.


----------



## HAWC1506

V22 Osprey said:


> Well no one wants to get charged taxes, number one. Two, gas prices are already as high as it is, the government starts charging fuel taxes then there will be no one left to use the freeways in the first place, as no one will drive their car anymore, and then if no one is driving anymore, why maintain the freeways?I dunno, you Europeans paying $7 bucks per gallon is insane.**** that.I would definitely stop driving and take a train/bus by that point or get an alternative fuel car.Also, I doubt any American is willing to pay nearly 10 bucks a gallon just to make freeways look prettier.


I don't think you're getting the point. The amount of tax dollars that the U.S. has been receiving is _inadequate_ for the amount of roads that we are trying to maintain. Do you really think we can sustain our highway network?

And the other side is to tax fuel so people will _stop_ driving their cars, so we'll have more funds for public transportation, which we lack. And because less people will be using the cars, we don't have to focus as much on highway expansion, but rather highway maintenance.

Higher tax = more funds
Higher tax = less cars
More funds = higher-quality maintenance and construction
Less cars = less wear and tear for the highway
Less cars = less capacity needed,
less capacity = lower maintenance costs
Lower maintenance costs = more funds for public transport

And so on...


----------



## V22 Osprey

HAWC1506 said:


> I don't think you're getting the point.


I'm pretty sure I got the point.Higher gas taxes is good. 



> The amount of tax dollars that the U.S. has been receiving is _inadequate_ for the amount of roads that we are trying to maintain.


No Shit, Sherlock. 



> Do you really think we can sustain our highway network?


Our roads are still standing aren't they?



> And the other side is to tax fuel so people will _stop_ driving their cars, so we'll have more funds for public transportation, which we lack. And because less people will be using the cars, we don't have to focus as much on highway expansion, but rather highway maintenance.


Woah.I don't know about you, but I like being able to choose when and more importantly where I want to go.Can't do that with a train or bus.Instead I have to stand out in cold for an hour.**** that.




> Higher tax = more funds
> Higher tax = less cars
> More funds = higher-quality maintenance and construction
> Less cars = less wear and tear for the highway
> Less cars = less capacity needed,
> less capacity = lower maintenance costs
> Lower maintenance costs = more funds for public transport
> 
> And so on...


I understand that, and good points.Sometimes taking public transportation is indeed better than taking a car (*cough* Downtown LA *cough*) but if I'm going to visit someone or go to the store I'm not going through the bullshit of taking a bus.


----------



## HAWC1506

V22 Osprey said:


> I'm pretty sure I got the point.Higher gas taxes is good.
> 
> 
> No Shit, Sherlock.
> 
> 
> Our roads are still standing aren't they?
> 
> 
> Woah.I don't know about you, but I like being able to choose when and more importantly where I want to go.Can't do that with a train or bus.Instead I have to stand out in cold for an hour.**** that.
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that, and good points.Sometimes taking public transportation is indeed better than taking a car (*cough* Downtown LA *cough*) but if I'm going to visit someone or go to the store I'm not going through the bullshit of taking a bus.


Our roads are standing, but they're on the verge of collapsing. By the time they do disintegrate, we'll be all screwed because one, we won't have roads that are safe to drive on, and two, we won't have the money to pay for it. The proper way to maintain highways isn't to wait until everything falls apart and redoing it. It's to always maintain it in good condition so it never gets to the point of disintegrating.

Then, obviously there is some animosity towards public transportation. Not your fault, not anyone's fault, but it's a mindset that have been engraved into Americans because of the way our cities are developed. The truth is that we are too spread out, and the amount of cars you see on the road, even in suburbs, prove that.

Transit will generate demand for transit-oriented developments, where people will begin to move towards city centers. That is the only way we can decrease sprawl and increase activities within the central business district.

And please watch the language. This isn't MySpace.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Let me quote Barney Frank: "Trying to have a conversation with you would be like arguing with a dining room table. I have no interest in doing it." For a newbie with only 7 posts, you have quite an attitude.

Hawc, don't feed the troll.


----------



## HAWC1506

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Let me quote Barney Frank: "Trying to have a conversation with you would be like arguing with a dining room table. I have no interest in doing it." For a newbie with only 7 posts, you have quite an attitude.
> 
> Hawc, don't feed the troll.


Yes sir! :booze:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

HAWC1506 said:


> And the other side is to tax fuel so people will _stop_ driving their cars, so we'll have more funds for public transportation, which we lack.


Actually, in countries like ours, public transport is financed by about 30% in ticket sales, and 70% from other sources, like fuel tax or real estate. With people driving less, there's less tax money for public transport. Ticket fares are too low to cover the cost. Why do you think New York's bridges are still tolled like crazy?

I also doubt about the amount of people not driving because of a higher fuel tax. If you suddenly increase the gas price from $ 2.5 to $ 7, yes that may happen, but since no politician would ever do that, they will go for the gradual increase, say $ 0.25 per year. People just adjust their budget to it. 

But I guess we need another major bridge to collapse in other to get the politicians attentions...


----------



## J N Winkler

Hiking US fuel taxes to European levels is a strawman anyway--nobody is seriously proposing to do that, aside from the New York _Times_ editorial page. The blue-ribbon commission on transportation funding (convened by USDOT in the waning days of the Bush administration) recommended tripling the federal motor fuel tax, which would raise the federal component of motor taxation from about 18c/gallon to about 54c/gallon.

Assuming matching rises from the states, this would take the overall motor fuel tax burden from about 30c-50c/gallon to about 90c-$1.40/gallon. This is not large compared to a current price of about $2/gallon (or higher, depending on reformulation requirements in some states) neat of tax, or $4/gallon (also neat of tax) in the summer of 2008.

This is the upper bound of plausibility. The increases that get discussed, and get passed, in individual state legislatures tend to be much smaller--typically on the order of 5c/gallon (cf. Washington State's "nickel tax"). The federal tax itself hasn't been increased since 1993.

There are some not completely unreasonable arguments against raising the fuel tax. An increase could, for example, fuel further construction inflation, particularly if not phased in in an optimal way. But at some stage we are going to have to wake up to the fact that tolls won't make up the difference--toll-viable corridors are limited--and ordinary upkeep of the highways isn't really an optional activity.


----------



## LtBk

I don't want to play devil's advocate, but rising gas taxes doesn't always mean better roads.


----------



## V22 Osprey

I'm not trying to be a troll.I'm just telling my side of things.

Also, yes I only have 7 posts.I assume I'm suppose to be quiet in background just because I'm new.Anyone's opinion is just as important as the dude with the 2,000 posts.

Anyway, new topic.

Does anyone have any pics of the California 60/91/ I-215 interchange?It looks really nice.


----------



## HAWC1506

ChrisZwolle said:


> Actually, in countries like ours, public transport is financed by about 30% in ticket sales, and 70% from other sources, like fuel tax or real estate. With people driving less, there's less tax money for public transport. Ticket fares are too low to cover the cost. Why do you think New York's bridges are still tolled like crazy?
> 
> I also doubt about the amount of people not driving because of a higher fuel tax. If you suddenly increase the gas price from $ 2.5 to $ 7, yes that may happen, but since no politician would ever do that, they will go for the gradual increase, say $ 0.25 per year. People just adjust their budget to it.
> 
> But I guess we need another major bridge to collapse in other to get the politicians attentions...


Sometimes I think so too. The collapse of the I-35 bridge got a lot of people talking, but having short-term memory, people just forgot about it. At least there's the stimulus now.


----------



## Paddington

HAWC1506 said:


> Sometimes I think so too. The collapse of the I-35 bridge got a lot of people talking, but having short-term memory, people just forgot about it. At least there's the stimulus now.


In Michigan, which has never in the history of the world been accused of having "good roads", the DOT here actually does give priority to rebuilding bridges and overpasses over pretty much everything else. :cheers:


----------



## HAWC1506

^^ That's good to know. I'm just a little worried about the maintance of those structures once it's been built. But I guess the poor quality is due more to weather than engineering problems right?

Btw, Active Traffic Management like in the Netherlands/Britain/Germany is included in this rendering of SR 520 in Washington.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

HAWC1506 said:


> Btw, Active Traffic Management like in the Netherlands/Britain/Germany is included in this rendering of SR 520 in Washington.


This ATM should help the Seattle area with never-ending traffic jams and accidents that happen just because people do not pay enough attention to the traffic around them :cheers:


----------



## HAWC1506

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> This ATM should help the Seattle area with never-ending traffic jams and accidents that happen just because people do not pay enough attention to the traffic around them :cheers:


Yeah, these will be installed on the "beltway" around Lake Washington, which is a square made up of I-90, SR 520, I-5 and I-405. Not really a beltway since it's not one highway, but close enough I guess.

The problem now is how to enforce it, since Americans are generally opposed to any type of automatic enforcement.

I had a chance to talk with a WSDOT engineer and he said that there is so much politics involved in projects these days that the best engineering option isn't always selected. The original I-5 proposed by engineers was supposed to go around Seattle, rather than through it, but of course politicians decided otherwise...

Then I mentioned keep right except to pass, and he said that highways are now designed to compensate for people who don't follow the rules, and that's part of the reason why lanes on highways are generally taken away from the right rather than from the left, a great amount of people cruise in the left lane compared to the right...


----------



## WA

Anyone know what this was, never was? It's Interstate 93 just north of Boston


----------



## ir desi

I'm guessing that ramp was constructed for the northern junction of I-695.


----------



## Rail Claimore

hoosier said:


> No, you are wrong. Chicago is a perfect example of freeway construction spurring suburban development. The construction of I-90 and I-88 west of Chicago resulted in MASSIVE sprawl and the rapid growth of independent cities like Aurora and sleepy farm towns like Naperville into major 100,000+ population cities.
> 
> Sprawl has closely followed these two freeway routes.


That doesn't explain the sprawl that's occurred in the western half of Lake County and McHenry County despite having no expressway or tollway in that quadrant of suburban Chicagoland. Many of the suburbs along I-88 and I-90 west of Chicago were already established thanks to the commuter rail lines, much the same way the Pacific Electric Lines allowed suburban communities in LA to establish themselves. Expressways and tollways do more to spur large employment centers than anything else, and suburban residential sprawl usually follows as a result of those employment centers.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

hoosier said:


> No, you are wrong. Chicago is a perfect example of freeway construction spurring suburban development. The construction of I-90 and I-88 west of Chicago resulted in MASSIVE sprawl and the rapid growth of independent cities like Aurora and sleepy farm towns like Naperville into major 100,000+ population cities.
> 
> Sprawl has closely followed these two freeway routes.


Well, that's logic. If you have population growth, where do you develop it? In the middle of nowhere with NO infrastructure, or along existing freeways? However, Chicago did show it grew at other places with no freeways too. If there's no alternative, urban areas will continue to grow. Philadelphia and Atlanta are examples too, they have a lot of suburban areas that are far from freeways. 

If you want no traffic growth, you either need huge unemployment (Wallonia, Ruhr) or a decimation of the population (world war III or emptying of cities (Rochester, NY, Buffalo, NY etc).


----------



## greek_eagle

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yeah, well Houston is a 5.7 million metropolitan area, so a light rail line can be expected to draw some travelers. I think another rail lines to Uptown and the airport can also count on some traveler potential.
> 
> However, Houston is extremely large, and I don't think light rail are a solution for transportation in large parts of the city. Houston is a private transport-reliant city, and always will be, considering the layout and expansion of the city.


*There are other cities that are built on similar models ...large spread out urban areas that rely on the private car as the main means of transport. In recent years though, we have seen that many of these areas, Los Angeles being one city where the car was thought to be king, change their attitude somewhat, and make progress with introducing light rail, intercity trains, suburban rail , subway, and improved buses. With the recent economic crisis, the price of gas in America surpassing the $4 a gallon mark, Americans countrywide are more opt to leave the car for other forms of reliable modes of transport. *


----------



## ChrisZwolle

gas increased from $ 6 to $ 11 in the Netherlands last year and nobody drove less.
That driving-less-due-to-gas-price-increases is more wishfull thinking than reality. Or do you think people won't go to work anymore? The only way that happens is an economic recession (as a perfect example the current one that reduces congestion).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

For instance, in California, the unemployment rate is 12.2% of the total population. In Metropolitan Los Angeles, there are 17,776,000 people in the CSA. If 12.2% of those are unemployed, this means 2,169,000 less commuter trips. Back and forth, that is a traffic volume drop of 4.3 million vehicles per day! Now that's significant.


----------



## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> For instance, in California, the unemployment rate is 12.2% of the total population. In Metropolitan Los Angeles, there are 17,776,000 people in the CSA. If 12.2% of those are unemployed, this means 2,169,000 less commuter trips. Back and forth, that is a traffic volume drop of 4.3 million vehicles per day! Now that's significant.


That analysis is overly simple. For starters, I question whether Wikipedia is giving unemployment figures as percentages of total population--are there really so few retirees?

From the standpoint of traffic, what really matters is the difference between present unemployment and the lowest unemployment rate (usually computed as between 4% and 5%) that is associated with a stable labor market. Assuming the California statewide rate applies to the LA basin, this difference is 8% of whatever is counted as the population for purposes of compiling employment statistics. Not all of these people will be driving to work, since large segments of the LA population (think South Central) are dependent on bus transit. Moreover, being out of a job does not necessarily mean that a person stops driving. But because LA is full of freeways which operate at LOS E or F throughout much of the day, the reduced employment rate makes a dramatic difference in terms of hours per day of stop-and-go operation. (This is somewhat offset, though, if reduced employment translates to reduced bus patronage, which in turn can result in route closures or service cancellations which put more cars on the road. Many California transit providers, particularly in the Bay Area, have been forced to implement deep service cuts.)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

J N Winkler said:


> That analysis is overly simple.


Of course, it's like a cigar box calculation  However, I didn't want to throw in too many figures.



> For starters, I question whether Wikipedia is giving unemployment figures as percentages of total population--are there really so few retirees?


I was actually wondering about that too, as far as I know, unemployment stats are usually given _as a percentage of the working population_, not total population. 



> Assuming the California statewide rate applies to the LA basin,


Well, greater LA represents 50% of the California statewide rate. 



> Not all of these people will be driving to work, since large segments of the LA population (think South Central) are dependent on bus transit.


About 90% drives to work (throw in some carpools too  ). 10% uses other means of transport, usually the bus (PT usage in the U.S. and the Netherlands is actually not that different, but we use another mode; the bicycle)




> Moreover, being out of a job does not necessarily mean that a person stops driving.


No, that's why only included commuter trips 



> But because LA is full of freeways which operate at LOS E or F throughout much of the day, the reduced employment rate makes a dramatic difference in terms of hours per day of stop-and-go operation.


I take it rush hours will especially narrow down. On some freeways in Los Angeles, congestion is occuring nearly all day, in other areas, only between 6 and 11 and between 3 and 7. This may narrow down, rush hours won't last as long as the extra capacity created by unemployment is now used by people who used to travel earlier or later during the rush, or by people who used alternate roads.

That last thing is also important to consider when widening or building a freeway. It creates different travel patterns in time and route. This is often underestimated.


----------



## mgk920

*New section of interstate commissioned today (2009-11-07)*

The existing PA 60 and US 22/30 freeway and tollway between I-80 at Sharon, PA and I-79 at Carnegie, PA (just outside of Pittsburgh, PA) is now 'I-376', with PennDOT crews making the signing changes this weekend.

I-279 from there eastward through the Fort Pitt Tunnel into downtown Pittsburgh was changed earlier this year.

See:
http://www.dot.state.pa.us/penndot/...c1b1fb590f4c687a85257666006eb39e?OpenDocument

:dance:

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Oh that's nice. I-376 will be significantly longer now. It used to run only in the Pittsburgh urban area, but it now extends all the way to Sharon.


----------



## ManRegio

I found some really interesting videos about Freeways in the US. The users are FreewayBrent and ScrewdUPClickV2. I don't know if you guys posted some of them before, but I will show some Interstate Highways in the San Antonio Area. It seems TxDOT really invested a lot of Money in the Loop 410 expansion to 8 and 10 lanes, and the New I-10, US-281 stacks and Bandera Road Ramps, I think they are just as massive as they could. 

*I-410 (TX), U.S. 90 To I-35*




*
I-37 US-281 N *





*I-10*





*I-35*


----------



## WA

I love Texas highways except for the frontage roads


----------



## Paddington

FreewayBrent, lol. This genre has really taken off.


----------



## Nexis

*Entering The PA Turnpike on my way home form my Cousins Farm in PA*





































*Later after I-76 splits off to goes South , my camera Malfunctioned and produced Blurry Images.

Now on I-276 East*














































*Approaching the I-476 Interchange*














































*US 1 Interchange*




























*Delaware Bridge Toll Gate
*









*I'll post the rest later on Today*

*~Corey*


----------



## dl3000

Bummer the leaves are all gone. Was there this time last year, they were just blowing off the trees. It was pretty awesome.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Popquiz; what's wrong about this picture?

http://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/midwest/i-196_nb_exit_034_01.jpg

(I don't think I can hotlink AAroads pics)


----------



## Substructure

Some freeways in Texas (at least portions of them) seem to be begging for repairs :
http://www.aaroads.com/texas/texas281/us-281_nb_at_us-290_eb.jpg


----------



## Paddington

Uhh... That is repaired. In Ohio they do a good job with patched roads which - though not pretty - drive just as smooth as a freshly paved one. Texas usually does a pretty good job with their roads.

America's continental climate is a lot more extreme than Europe's so don't go comparing European solutions with American ones.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yep, and besides that, the DOT funds are declining in purchasing power, so they can't afford to do much projects. That's why you see more and more toll roads.


----------



## snowman159

Great photos, nexis! Keep 'em coming. :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice birds eye view pics


----------



## Nexis

*Entering I-78 Express Lanes form NJ 24 in Springfield,NJ*



















*Garden State Parkway Interchange Construction Site*










*Ramp to I-78 East form GSP South coming along nicely*




























*Entering Hillside,NJ*




























*Entering The City of Newark*





































*Downtown Exit is in the Middle*










*Entering the Newark Airport Interchange*





































*Entering The New Jersey Turnpike Northbound*










*View of I-78 and the Newark Bay Bridge*



















*Going under the Pulaski Skyway on the Eastern Spur *










*The Eastern Spur Bridge over The North East Corridor, you can see the NJ Transit yards and the extra rail cars stored during off peak hours*



















*Hackensack River Bridge , undergoing sum refurbishment*



















*Crossing the Hackensack River with a view of Jersey City & Manhattan, and a NJ Transit Train headed for NY Penn Station*



















*Manhattan Skyline comes into view*



















*NJ Transit Train pulling into Secacuse JCT *





































*Secacuse Toll Gate & Exit to NJ 495 and the Lincoln Tunnel*



















*Crossing NJ 3*










*approaching the End of the Eastern Spur of the NJTPK*



















*End of the Western & Eastern Spurs, <--I-80 Hackensack,Paterson , San Fransico : George Washington Bridge , US 46 , Fort Lee , New York City --->*










*I-80 Slip road*



















*Approaching The Eastern Terminus of I-80*



















*I-95 Traffic & Exit*










*The Eastern Terminus of I-80 in Teaneck,NJ*










*Up next , I-287 / 87 NY* 

*~Corey*


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's not Secacuse, but Secaucus 

You're an early morning riser, Nexis.


----------



## FM 2258

I wonder if there is a sign showing the mileage for San Francisco on the eastern end of Interstate 80.


----------



## Nexis

*I know there isn't one on our side anymore there used to be , i don't what happened to it* hno:

*NJ 17 > NY 17 : I-287 North entering New York*



















*I-287 East merging with I-87 South in Suffern,NY*























































*NY 304 View of I-287/ 87 *










*Thats it for now , i don't know when the next update will be, for the interstates thread* :cheers:

*~Corey*


----------



## BIK

I drove on the I-95 in Florida, so weird to see the same signs, but completely different surroundings. And to know that your pics have been taken so many miles away, but still close to the same road.

But just thinking about driving the whole lenght of I-95 makes me sleepy!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Verrazano-Narrows Bridge (Interstate 278) in New York City turns 45 today!

It opened in 1964. A second deck was added in 1969 for a grand total of 12 lanes of traffic. It carries 195,000 vehicles per day.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A bigpicture view on the Verrazano Narrows Bridge in the foreground, intersecting with the Belt Parkway. In the center of the picture, near those two apartment towers in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, the Gowanus Expressway intersects with the Belt Parkway. 

Other visible locations/landmarkts are the Brooklyn Bridge, Brooklyn Heights and the Empire State Building. 









Interchange of the Belt Parkway and Gowanus Expressway (I-278) in Brooklyn. The Gowanus Expressway was built in between 1939 and 1941 on an existing elevated structure previously used for a railroad. It was widened in the 50's to six lanes and passes by buildings very close.


----------



## Xusein

>


No offense, but that welcome sign reeks of blandness. 

Which sucks even worse because NY actually has one of my favorite welcome signs, the one with the Statue of Liberty on it.


----------



## Nexis

The Statue of Liberty isn't yours , thats why the signs were changed. Its ours , New Jersey Sued New York in the 1990s over this issue and we won.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Hmm, I thought Ellis and Liberty Islands were exclaves of Manhattan Borough.


----------



## Billpa

The Statue of Liberty is on an island that's part of NY state but it is "within" NJ's border and is much closer to the NJ mainland than it is to New York's. Of course Lady Liberty also has her backside turned toward Jersey.


----------



## Nexis

There both in NJ and always have been , there one of the most visited landmarks in Jersey City. The Main Ferry to get to both is in Jersey City. When Ellis Island had a Fire & Security scare last week , Jersey City PD and Swat and Fire Responded , not NYC. Its sad NYC claimed as theres , it was never. Jersey City has big plans for the Liberty Terminal , it used be a train station and it was abandoned in the 1960s , now there going to turn it into a Market and Museum. Jersey City is now a major City , its = to NYC in Construction Projects , with over 40 to 70 going on Now , 3 Skyscrapers. There are plans to Put something under I-78 , most likely a Park. I-78 has a Skyway in Jersey City , it rises 4 stories above the streets. And provides stunning views of The Jersey City Skyline , i posted about the Skyway a few pages back, only the Westbound Roadway which is only 2 stories high. I think New York State Signs should have Niagara Falls , Wineries, and NYC skyline , the new NJ Signs are great looking but small compared to other states , except on the Tollways , where there big , even some Railways have signs


----------



## J N Winkler

Wikipedia has details:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellis_Island

In actuality New York has all of Ellis Island except the portions which were created by landfill. New Jersey successfully argued that the landfill portions are within NJ. But neither state is actually able to levy taxes on Ellis Island because it is wholly owned by the federal government and there is a convention in the US that no governmental jurisdiction levies tax on others.

There is a bridge (now closed) between Jersey City and Ellis Island.

Liberty Island, on the other hand, is wholly in New York and is part of New York City.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Island

Again, because all land on it is owned by the federal government, none of it is taxed.


----------



## Nexis

There both in NJ , since i live here , i would know. There is about 200 to 290 feet before the New York Line , if you go to The park and ask which state owns it They'll say New Jersey. Liberty State Park is on the New Jersey side , NYC has no park , that is associated with Lady Liberty & Ellis Island. And don't trust Wikipedia on that dept , you have to visit there to get the actually correct answer  The Bridge isn't Closed , its only for Workers and Maintenance.


----------



## J N Winkler

I am going to trust Wikipedia on this one. It does say that the dry land of Liberty Island is New York territory in New Jersey waters, which makes Liberty Island a classic exclave since it is surrounded by New Jersey but not part of it. Liberty State Park is just that--a state park. The Statue of Liberty and associated grounds is a federal monument. And the bridge in question is effectively closed if it is open only to maintenance vehicles.

The Wikipedia article on Liberty Island has a section which explains why people mistakenly believe Liberty Island is part of New Jersey.


----------



## Xusein

Nexis said:


> The Statue of Liberty isn't yours , thats why the signs were changed. Its ours , New Jersey Sued New York in the 1990s over this issue and we won.


I think that those signs were made in this decade though.


----------



## Nexis

I don't trust Wikipedia on a number of things , ive found out alot of incorrectness , and it was on Fox and CNN the other day , about how Wikipedia has alot errors in sum topics. I lived all my life , visited Lady Liberty 7x , i think i know what i'm talking about. End of Topic :bleep:


----------



## J N Winkler

If you think that Liberty Island is in New Jersey, then it is perhaps not surprising that you think Wikipedia is full of inaccuracies. I won't disagree that it has some errors but this is not one of them.

If you don't trust Wikipedia, how about Google Maps? It clearly shows that Liberty Island is in New York.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Statu...998,-74.045228&spn=0.002095,0.004823&t=h&z=18

It also shows clearly that different parts of Ellis Island are in New York and New Jersey.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Statu...914,-74.038872&spn=0.002094,0.004823&t=h&z=18

The fact that you live in New Jersey, and have visited the Statue of Liberty seven times, does not mean you are right. You are not.

Edit: See also this map of Community District 1 in Manhattan (Chris was right--Liberty Island and the New York portion of Ellis Island are administratively part of Manhattan):

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/lucds/mn1profile.pdf

Edit (again): A 1998 New York _Times_ article (republished on a private website) adds to the evidence pile:

http://www.endex.com/gf/buildings/liberty/eiowner.htm

Edit (yet again): Found full text and a map of the Supreme Court's decision of May 21, 1998, in _New Jersey_ v. _New York_, 526 US 589 et seqq. (page 701 of 1198 in the PDF file):

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/boundvolumes/526bv.pdf

The map attached to the decision bears the chopmarks of NJDOT and the NJ Geodetic Survey, is sealed by a PE registered in NJ, and shows clearly that of the 27.485 acres total land area of Ellis Island, 22.802 acres is in New Jersey while 4.683 acres is in New York.

There is unfortunately not a citeable Supreme Court decision to the effect that Liberty Island is in New York, because New Jersey has never litigated otherwise. But make no mistake: on Liberty Island you are in New York.


----------



## Timon91

Verso said:


> German A7×A5, if coming from Kassel on A7.


It seems like they've updated it. If I remember correctly, last time it wasn't shown correctly in Google Maps.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That imagery on Google Earth is almost 10 years old. Trucks and cars are now separated at that interchange.


----------



## snowman159

ChrisZwolle said:


> That imagery on Google Earth is almost 10 years old. Trucks and cars are now separated at that interchange.


You mean the A5/A7 interchange? 

On the pics in Verso's link (and google maps) there's only one extra truck lane towards the A5. This avoids slow trucks having to move two lanes to the left.
Those who want to stay on the A7 use the same two lanes as cars at that interchange.

It looks like a very good and effective solution, but it's not really the same as in the example I posted above (I5/CA14)


----------



## Timon91

ChrisZwolle said:


> That imagery on Google Earth is almost 10 years old. Trucks and cars are now separated at that interchange.


The imagery is outdated, but the map is correct


----------



## xzmattzx

adam_uk said:


> love highway I95 going from miami all the way to pensilvenia


We don't call it "highway I-95", it's just plain old "I-95". Also, it doesn't just go to Pennsylvania, it goes to Maine. Actually, it goes right to the Canadian border.


----------



## Nexis

*Today i went everywhere an of course on the New Jersey Turnpike.

I-78 / New Jersey Turnpike Extension 
Jersey City,NJ*



















*Entering the Jersey City Skyway*










*Jersey City & Manhattan Skylines*










*Beacon Hill , under Reconstruction , turning into a new Condo / Loft city*










*Newport & Historic Downtown : Jersey City form the Skyway*










*Looking back at The Journal SQ part of Jersey City*










*Exit 14B , to Liberty State Park & Southern Neighborhoods of Jersey City*










*14B approaching road*










*I-78 West entering : City of Bayonne*



















*Newark Bay Bridge*










Looking North at the Hackensack Waterfront Section of Jersey City & Pulaski Skyway










*Looking at the City of Newark and Cargo Port*




























*Approaching the Main NJ TPK / I-95 & Newark Airport Interchange, and Port Newark Car Port*




























*Crossing I-95/ NJTPK*










*Entering I-95/ NJTPK South*










*I will post the rest later , hope you enjoyied* 

*~Corey*


----------



## Billpa

xzmattzx said:


> We don't call it "highway I-95", it's just plain old "I-95". Also, it doesn't just go to Pennsylvania, it goes to Maine. Actually, it goes right to the Canadian border.


Interstate 95's northern terminus...from AA roads...

Last exit in Maine- note the 25 mph interstate speed limit as Candian customs is just around the corner...









That's it folks...









New Brunswick is in the Atlantic time zone- four hours behind London.









A short expressway connects Interstate 95 with the Trans-Canada Highway (NB 2). The "continuation" of I-95 is New Brunswick highway 95. Note: NB's route shield is in the shape of the province.









In New Brunswick, Major roads have green shields- somewhat important roads are "blue" and minor roads have black route markers. The Trans-Canada Highway is noted with a maple leaf shield.


----------



## Nexis

*interesting , i was up there back in 2004.*

*Heres the Rest of the NJTPK

Entering the NJTPK at the Newark Airport Interchange*










*Taking the Car lanes*



















*Exit 13A interchange*



















*Exit 13 to Gothals Bridge , I-278 , Elizabeth,NJ & NYC*










*Industrial area of Central NJ along the TPK*




























*Exiting @ Exit 12 in Carteret,NJ*



















*Exit 12 Toll Gate*










*New Interchange*










*Thats it for now , more will come later in the week*

*sorry about the sun , it was very powerful yesterday

*~Corey*


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 64 in St. Louis*

Interstate 64 reopened today after a massive reconstruction project between I-170 and Kingshighway Boulevard. 










Traffic pattern changes:

The new section of I-64 between I-170 to Kingshighway was back to pre construction levels and the section from Kingshighway to the Poplar Street Bridge increased 33 percent. 

All of the other interstates around the region had significantly reduced traffic. Here is a summary of the changes:

· I-44, from I-270 to I-55 in both directions, decreased 20-30 percent

· I-70, from I-270 to Poplar Street Bridge in both directions, decreased 10-20 percent

· I-55, from I-270 to Poplar Street Bridge in both directions, decreased 10-15 percent

· I-270 overall reduced 5-10 percent on the full loop. The southbound section from I-64 to I-44 reduced 22 percent


----------



## ttownfeen

Are there any future plans to extend I-64 or I-44? They both end in St. Louis - they could be connected as one continuous interstate and save a valuable number for some other interstate in the future.


----------



## Barciur

This isn't gonna be exactly 100% on topic but metric signs in the USA back from when they tried to implement it.. found online, I saw one sign going through VT and did some research.. and found more

I-19 between Tucson and Nogales, AZ









I-87, Champlain, NY









Maine Turnpike









unknown location


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ttownfeen said:


> Are there any future plans to extend I-64 or I-44? They both end in St. Louis - they could be connected as one continuous interstate and save a valuable number for some other interstate in the future.


As far as I know, I-64 will be extended to I-70 just west of St. Louis. I don't know about I-44, there are enough Interstate corridors east of St. Louis (I-64, I-70), although there were some ideas of turning US 50 to Cincinnati into a freeway.


----------



## FM 2258

Barciur said:


> This isn't gonna be exactly 100% on topic but metric signs in the USA back from when they tried to implement it.. found online, I saw one sign going through VT and did some research.. and found more
> 
> 
> unknown location


When I look at metric distances my brain doesn't really know how to process them. My brain always tries to convert back into the imperial system. 

33km is how many miles?....haha


----------



## ChrisZwolle

20 miles. I just know that in one second. I guess it's what you're used to. I am used to both miles and kilometers, but not areas or volumes.


----------



## Danielk2

I really think the metric system should be applied in the US. All you need is signs showing distances in both units.
Did they remove those overheads from the Maine Tpk, or are they still in function??


----------



## Billpa

Maine and New Hampshire put up those signs a few years ago- I believe they're still up. That was not some old 1970s project...The Maine ones went up- I'm guessing- in the mid-to-late 90s.


----------



## J N Winkler

Enjoy the I-19 metric signs while you can--they are scheduled to disappear since ADOT wants to use ARRA funds to change the current signs (which were installed in 1999) to English units. They replace earlier metric signs which were installed in 1981, and IMO were better since they didn't attempt to bell the metric cat by using explicit units everywhere.


----------



## ingeniera

Barciur said:


> unknown location


This is on I-19 southbound in Arizona, in the way to Mexico. (Nogales is at the border)


----------



## geogregor

FM 2258 said:


> When I look at metric distances my brain doesn't really know how to process them. My brain always tries to convert back into the imperial system.
> 
> 33km is how many miles?....haha


I was born and raised in metric country but after few years of living in UK I can easilly think in both units  I don't convert them I just think in both depending from situation. The same apply to speed. 
Distance units are the simplest to adapt.
One thing I can't get is measuring temperature using Fahrenheit degrees. Mad system. So illogicalhno:
Luckily UK uses Celsius  
Somwhere in between is all the mess with stones, pounds, ounces, bushels and other medieval units


----------



## just_a_guy

All of I-19 (Tucson AZ to the southern border at Nogales) both south and northbound is in the metric system. I've gone throught 2 times I think and it is a bit wierd but I like it. Getting used to the metric system isn't all that hard really. I was raised in the US with the english system and then moved to Mexico, so I know what thats like.


----------



## ttownfeen

ChrisZwolle said:


> Well, it's not that valuable. I mean, there is no chance I-64 will be extended westward from St. Louis towards western Missouri. But I liked it better when it started in East St. Louis, IL.
> 
> Two-digit interstates are there to show significant routes for interstate travel. I-64 in Missouri doesn't comply with this, it indeed fulfills a local purpose. Through traffic on I-70 will use I-70 or I-270 anyway. It's kinda like I-97 in Maryland, I-12 in Louisiana, I-88 in New York or I-86 in Idaho. Most of them are a bit too long to be 3-digit, but don't have the prominence you'd expect from a two-digit Interstate Highway.


Yes, that's why I wonder why 64 and 44 aren't one interstate. Though, I see that there is not as much of a shortage of even-numbered (east-west) interstates as odd-numbered (north-south interstates) east of Great Plains, it's still a waste of a number.


----------



## dl3000

Danielk2 said:


> I think all states will replace their signs. It's called standardization. Some Interstates still have signs with non-reflective letters and small round reflectors on the lettes and numerals. But that's mostly in rural areas.


California still has the reflector dots on letters on TONS of signs everywhere. Slowly but surely they will be changed out I'm sure. And thanks Chris for the exit info.


----------



## mgk920

*New section of Interstate to open Thursday, 2009-12-17*

http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/2009/12/16/met_559733.shtml

The section of I-520 (also called the Palmetto Parkway) between US 1/78/278 and I-20 (interchange 5) in the North Augusta, SC area opens on Thursday, 2009-12-17. This section will also carry the US 25 route markers and completes the I-520 loop in the Augusta, GA/North Augusta, SC area.

I do find it curious that this highway's number has an 'odd' first digit, rather than a more proper 'even' first digit for such a beltline, though.

:dance:

Mike


----------



## Xusein

LtBk said:


> Its funny that there is no I-995 anywhere.


No, but there's a I-990. Highest numbered Interstate highway, right here in the Buffalo area. Close enough. 









http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:I-290-NY-exit-4.jpg


----------



## ttownfeen

mgk920 said:


> http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/2009/12/16/met_559733.shtml
> 
> The section of I-520 (also called the Palmetto Parkway) between US 1/78/278 and I-20 (interchange 5) in the North Augusta, SC area opens on Thursday, 2009-12-17. This section will also carry the US 25 route markers and completes the I-520 loop in the Augusta, GA/North Augusta, SC area.
> 
> I do find it curious that this highway's number has an 'odd' first digit, rather than a more proper 'even' first digit for such a beltline, though.
> 
> Mike


That's because it's been a spur (until now, obviously).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Xusein said:


> No, but there's a I-990. Highest numbered Interstate highway, right here in the Buffalo area. Close enough.


Yeah, but that's unrelated. I-990 is a spur of I-90, and I-995 should be a spur of I-95. The last two digits count here.


----------



## Danielk2

ttownfeen said:


> Yeah, but those Metric signs in Arizona are going away as they are being replaced with newer signage.


Nooooo.... don't take our beloved metric signs
:badnews:


----------



## dl3000

Yeah the roll out of metric conversion I think would have to start with roads and construction. All sciences and most engineering are metric, I learned Civil Engineering about 85% metric 15% customary units at college. Metric is popular, it just needs to be more prevalent in daily life. Now Celsius will definitely take some getting used to. 

So I have yet to see any clearview here in Southern California. It looks ugly but I can see how it can be more legible. Even signs on newer roads around here don't have the clearview. Just curious on the time frame.


----------



## Danielk2

Actually, the whole world except US, Burma and Liberia uses the metric system.
The metric system has been in use since 1799 in France.

Years of metrication in the world:

*Europe*
France: 1799
Netherlands: 1820
Belgium: 1820
Luxembourg: 1820
Switzerland: 1835
Spain: somewhere in the 1850s
Italy: 1861
Germany: 1870
UK: 1873 (imperial units still in use on roads)
Denmark: 1907
Ireland: 1970

*South America*
Chile: 1848

*Oceania*
Australia: 1876
New Zealand: 1969

*Asia*
India: 1955

*North America*
Canada: 1970
Jamaica: somewhere in the 1970s
US: Some time in 3rd millennium


----------



## Nexis

US will never convert , it would cost millions to upgrade signs and info. And i think the Mileage system is better then Kms.

Heres some of I-80 i took 45 mins ago

Entering I-80 East form NJ 20 North 



















Fresh New Pavement and Guard Rails 














































Crossing the Garden State Parkway & New Jersey Transit Bergen Line










Exiting @ Exit 62A




























Taking the Garden State Parkway Ramp



















Hope you all enjoyed.

~Corey


----------



## Barciur

> US will never convert


Prolly will when it collapses 



> And i think the Mileage system is better then Kms.


How? Give me reasons.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Do we really need these metric vs imperial discussions every few pages?


----------



## Nexis

No , but i think the forums are collapsing on this site , its becoming a Country vs. Country or Infrastructure vs. Infrastructure issue and it needs to stop. US Americans do it the way we want too ,and we don't need your suggestions to change , on every level American is slowly changing Just Leave us alone already. 

~Corey


----------



## Barciur

im not trying to suggest anything im just trying to get ur reasoning since u made a statement -


----------



## Nexis

Because we Americans are used to something we use everyday , were not going to change it anytime soon. Now please look at my photos and forget about this topic!


----------



## mgk920

Danielk2 said:


> Actually, the whole world except US, Burma and Liberia uses the metric system.


Who keeps repeating that crock of you-know-what country list??? Both of those other countries are 100% metric.

Other than the USA, the only country left (bigger than a tiny speck island) that I am aware of that does not have 100% metric highway signage is the UK. And the USA is the only one left that does not 'popularly' use Celsius temps, price retail fuel in liters and use metric in most of its other retail trade (although some 'Olde Englische' does still linger in colloquial use in Canada, only because of its proximity to the USA).

Mike


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Nexis said:


> Because we Americans are used to something we use everyday , were not going to change it anytime soon. Now please look at my photos and forget about this topic!


Hey Corey, do the rest of Americans a favour and do not speak on their behalf. As an American, I do not accept your "we", "us", and so on generalisations. I use metric system and many other Americans do too. Just because metric users are not a majority (yet), it does not give you a right to generalise like this. Also, where I come from, there is a useful expression, "Never say 'never' " 

Chris, I did not start the above argument this time  I am kind of proud of it!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> # 1888 – Robert Moses, American public works official (d. 1981)


Today it's 121 years ago Robert Moses was born. He designed and built the first limited-access highway network in North America, in New York City and Long Island. He was in power from 1924 until the late 1960's, but wasn't a politician, but a public works engineer. He built numerous parkways, bridges and expressways from the late 1920's to the 1960's. Basically, every limited-access road in the New York City area (within NY State) now existing was built under his supervision. He died in 1981, aged 93. He was without a doubt, the most powerful and influential urban planner the world has ever seen. No other urban planner had such an impact in such a long period (from 1924 to 1968).


----------



## LTomi

On the US pictures I always see that the west coast highways and roads are often paved with light grey asphalt, and the east coast ones are often paved with dark grey, almost black asphalt. Are there any reasons, or is it random? And what is the better, a California or a New York road or highway? 
(I have never been is the USA.)


----------



## Nexis

Temperatures and the West Coast uses Concrete mostly over Asphalt since it lasts longer and Earthquake can rip Asphalt easily.

~Corey


----------



## DanielFigFoz

If you have just left a toll plaza, you're not going to be going very fast


----------



## Danielk2

but if there's only 1 destination sign at the exit, you can't possibly read that


----------



## Nexis

DanielFigFoz said:


> If you have just left a toll plaza, you're not going to be going very fast


Exactly my point , and most people that use that exit are going to 2 places , West Point Military Academy or Woodbury Commons Shopping area , which right next to the Toll gate.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

ChrisZwolle said:


> Tampa, especially the Clearwater-St. Petersburg peninsula has only one real freeway (I-275), but Pinellas County has a population of 930,000. I also believe traffic safety is below average in this area because there are less limited access and grade-separated features, and high traffic volumes are recorded in residential areas.


Exactly and poor light timing makes traffic bad and increases red light running and pedestrian accidents.


----------



## busterrobertson

soup or man said:


> Does anyone have any maps of failed highway expansions in your city?
> 
> Here was Tucson Arizona's masterplan in 1960. If this were built, it would make traveling in Tucson much easier as the 10 and the 19 both travel south.
> 
> 
> 
> This link shows what Dallas would've been. I bet this would've been one of the largest freeway systems in the nation.
> 
> http://www.texasfreeway.com/Dallas/historic/freeway_planning_maps/dfw_1967.shtml


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Dallas has an incredible freeway system despite those cancelled freeways.


----------



## jchernin

Nexis said:


> *NY 17 West ,and Exit to NY 17 South & US 6 East*


first off, this is not an interstate, this pic shouldnt even be in this thread to begin with

second, its obvious there's waaayyyy toooo much info on the exit sign. anybody who disagrees must be smokin somethin powerful. yea u may be goin slow from a toll booth blah blah but thats no excuse for confusing signage. its clear that u HAVE to go slow to read something like that, especially for people not from the area, and thats exactly who the signs are for. it would not be difficult to split up that information. signs can be placed leading up to the toll booth if there is not much space (distance) for a couple signs before the exit.

third, ny 17 *west* and ny 17 *south*?!? again, a potentially confusing setup. in california highways go (and are labeled) either east/west or north/south. seems weird that if u go in one direction on a highway ur going west and if ur going the other south! (or whatever that means)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Dallas has an incredible freeway system despite those cancelled freeways.


Yep. The main problem in Dallas is that the urban growth during the last couple of decades wasn't balanced very good, nearly all growth happened to the north of Dallas-Fort Worth. This creates very heavy north-south traffic.


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## mgk920

jchernin said:


> first off, this is not an interstate, this pic shouldnt even be in this thread to begin with
> 
> second, its obvious there's waaayyyy toooo much info on the exit sign. anybody who disagrees must be smokin somethin powerful. yea u may be goin slow from a toll booth blah blah but thats no excuse for confusing signage. its clear that u HAVE to go slow to read something like that, especially for people not from the area, and thats exactly who the signs are for. it would not be difficult to split up that information. signs can be placed leading up to the toll booth if there is not much space (distance) for a couple signs before the exit.
> 
> third, ny 17 *west* and ny 17 *south*?!? again, a potentially confusing setup. in california highways go (and are labeled) either east/west or north/south. seems weird that if u go in one direction on a highway ur going west and if ur going the other south! (or whatever that means)


That is at a tollgate at an exit OFF of an interstate (I-87) *AND*, once a few relatively simple upgrades farther west are completed, NY 17 (the road ahead in that image) will become 'I-86'. It already is I-86 west of I-81.

Mike


----------



## snowman159

And I don't think that signing it as 17 South is more confusing, quite the opposite.

The BQE is a good example that strictly adheres to the standards and is signed as East/West, even though it runs north/south for its entire length. That really doesn't help anyone and most likely causes more confusion.


----------



## Nexis

jchernin said:


> first off, this is not an interstate, this pic shouldnt even be in this thread to begin with
> 
> second, its obvious there's waaayyyy toooo much info on the exit sign. anybody who disagrees must be smokin somethin powerful. yea u may be goin slow from a toll booth blah blah but thats no excuse for confusing signage. its clear that u HAVE to go slow to read something like that, especially for people not from the area, and thats exactly who the signs are for. it would not be difficult to split up that information. signs can be placed leading up to the toll booth if there is not much space (distance) for a couple signs before the exit.
> 
> third, ny 17 *west* and ny 17 *south*?!? again, a potentially confusing setup. in california highways go (and are labeled) either east/west or north/south. seems weird that if u go in one direction on a highway ur going west and if ur going the other south! (or whatever that means)


1. I put the photo there becuz its part I-87 Interchange/ Toll Gate
2. Thats the last sign out of 4 that tell you , so if your not paying attention thats your problem. & 80% ppl after the Toll gate get off at the Exit, becuz it goes to the Massive Woodbury Commons Shopping complex and 3 State Parks and West Point. 
3. NY/NJ 17 is a very old road it was here before the interstates, it used to be the only way to go to NJ form that part of NY state. I know it seems weird to you but its normal for a road here to change directions. Remember this is the East Coast everything is old here.


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## J N Winkler

Nexis said:


> Thats the last sign out of 4 that tell you , so if your not paying attention thats your problem. & 80% ppl after the Toll gate get off at the Exit, becuz it goes to the Massive Woodbury Commons Shopping complex and 3 State Parks and West Point.


The others who say there is too much information on this sign are absolutely correct, though. The _MUTCD_ sets a firm limit of three destinations per sign, which this particular sign comfortably exceeds. The fact that it is located just after a toll gate does not make much difference since driver workload is also high at that location. Drivers coming out of the tollgates need to watch for merging traffic from both sides.


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## Danielk2

No matter where that sign is located at before or after or close to or wherever its located, it's a fact that there are to many destinations on the sign. Case closed


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## Xusein

Even though it's not an interstate (at least east of Binghamton yet), Route 17 definitely is an interesting highway to drive on. I like the scenery around it, especially around fall, it goes through some of New York's most scenic areas. 

Better than taking I-90/Thruway, which is a borefest and is nothing but flat farmland between Buffalo and Syracuse.


----------



## Nexis

Xusein said:


> Even though it's not an interstate (at least east of Binghamton yet), Route 17 definitely is an interesting highway to drive on. I like the scenery around it, especially around fall, it goes through some of New York's most scenic areas.
> 
> Better than taking I-90/Thruway, which is a borefest and is nothing but flat farmland between Buffalo and Syracuse.


I think GOV Patterson , halted the upgraded , which was smart thing to do,in these times. Becuz it was retarded to upgrade and a perfect highway to interstate status in the first place. I always use NY 17 to go to the Niagara region and Canada its faster then I-90 becuz it goes through mainly rural areas.


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## kosimodo

FYI

*U.S. Drivers Not The Speed Demons You May Think*

Data from GPS users show drivers stay within speed limit range on most major U.S. highways; the fastest highway, “America’s Autobahn,” is on I-15 in Utah and Nevada, while the slowest road is in Washington D.C.

Concord, MA – January 21, 2010 – 
TomTom, the world’s leading provider of navigation solutions and digital maps, today revealed the first fully detailed view of which interstate highways are the fastest and slowest in the United States. Although the average speed on some U.S. roads slightly exceeded the speed limit, data from GPS users show that, overall, drivers tend to stay within speed limit range on most major U.S. highways.
http://www.teleatlas.com/WhyTeleAtlas/Pressroom/PressReleases/TA_CT039549
The results were calculated using data from Speed Profiles™, the historical speed database from TomTom’s map business unit Tele Atlas that helps personal and professional fleet drivers find the best routes. Speed Profiles is integrated as IQ Routes™ on TomTom devices. It aggregates, anonymously, the actual speeds that millions of GPS-enabled drivers have traveled over the last two years to provide the most accurate view of historic speeds available.

Data were organized to show the average speeds on interstate highways and to reflect only free flow speed data, or average speeds when there is no traffic present. When compared to a database of posted speed limits, the results indicate that the average U.S. driver stays within the speed limit range on most urban and rural interstate highways:

Even drivers in the fastest states tend to stay within the speed limit range. Across all interstate highways, Mississippi has the fastest roads, with average speeds of just over 70 MPH and posted speed limits ranging from 65-70 MPH. New Mexico (70 MPH actual average, 70-75 MPH posted speed limits), Idaho (70 MPH actual average, 65-75 MPH posted speed limits), Utah (70 MPH actual average, 65-75 MPH posted speed limits) and Alabama (70 MPH actual average, 60-70 MPH posted speed limits), round out the top five states with the fastest interstates in the country;

Famous worldwide as a road network where drivers can go as fast as they like, Germany’s Autobahn has speed limits in some areas, but drivers typically travel over 100 MPH in unregulated spots. Where is America’s Autobahn? Our fastest road is on I-15 in Utah and Nevada, with speeds averaging 77.67 MPH, although some spots on that highway allow 80 MPH; 

The nation’s fastest area is in the middle part of the country. Seven of the top 15 states with the fastest highways are in that area. The average speeds on roads in Mississippi, Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa, Idaho, Alabama and Missouri exceed 67 MPH; the average posted speed limits in those states is 70 MPH;

Speeds on single interstate highways that span a number of states, such as the I-95 route running from Northern Maine to Southern Florida, differ dramatically depending on where you are. Along that highway, the fastest section is in South Carolina; the slowest sections are in Virginia, New York, New Jersey and Connecticut. 

Findings for the Washington D.C. area echo results found in TomTom’s recent study of the most congested traffic spots in the U.S.. Washington D.C. has the slowest average MPH on its interstate highways, at 46 MPH. After Washington D.C., the states with the slowest interstate average MPH are: Hawaii (53 MPH); Delaware (61 MPH); Rhode Island (63 MPH); and Oregon (63 MPH).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

So what else is new?

If you follow the V85 idea (85% of the drivers not exceeding a certain speed), you'll see this is mostly within 5 - 10% of the speed limit, except in spots where the speed limit is not credible (too low). 

I conduct traffic counts where we also register speed. People always come to me and say "boy, good thing you are also checking the speed, because people speed here like crazy". But when I look at the results, in 90% of the time, there is absolutely nothing weird going on. Yeah, there are a few drivers who significantly exceed the speed limit, but the majority of the traffic is close to the speed limit.


----------



## kosimodo

I know what you mean. I spot those few on the road the whole time! But most of all people drive along with the flow.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Here's a short example of a speed registration.

It is divided in several classes.

The abs. is the absolute figure (number of vehicles counted)
The Idx. is the relative figure (percentage)

You can see there was a total of 2,426 vehicles counted, and 85% of them did not exceed 57 km/h. The speed limit on this road is 50 km/h. You can also see the number of vehicles doing more than 20 km/h over the limit is only 1.2%. Only 0.1% (3 vehicles) exceeded 90 km/h.


----------



## Rail Claimore

Congestion must be taken into account with this study. There's no way Alabama's drivers are faster than Georgia's in freeflowing traffic. Atlantans are insane speeders and Georgia is an extremely nice state to speed in. You're given 10mph leeway by law on all highways unless it's a construction or school zone, or you're pulled over by the state patrol.


----------



## J N Winkler

Nexis said:


> OMG now you made my morning not so pleasant...hno:


You are headed for a lot of trouble in life if the fact that someone disagrees with you, and is able to cite concrete reasons for so disagreeing, is enough to ruin your day.

In regards to "big interchanges being bad for the environment," the Big I and its predecessor are and were in the middle of a dense urban area--in fact habitat was severed and fragmented long before the original Big I opened in 1965. Aside from the occasional songbird in a backyard tree and the odd coyote going through trash barrels in downtown Albuquerque, there is no wildlife left whose habitat had to be considered when designing and building the Big I. The environmental impacts therefore relate largely to noise and pollution. Rebuilding the original Big I in place might have kept noise levels (which are relatively easy to mitigate) down compared to the current design, but this would have been done at an enormous cost in pollution.

I fully support measures to maintain habitat connectivity across roads in rural areas, such as wildlife bridges and creeps, but none of those remedies would have been useful in central Albuquerque.


----------



## mgk920

That 'new' interchange in the downtown Albuquerque, NM area (I-25/40) is actually a rebuild/re-engineering of a previous worn out and obsolete direct free-flowing interchange that was built back in the 1960s. The old one had ramps with left diverges and merges, slow speed limits and poor sight lines.

Mike


----------



## Xusein

Buffalo said:


> Buffalo, NY.RT 5, this section is know as the skyway, is going vertical and the 190 is horizontal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> photo from google


Damn, I just posted this pic in the Non-Interstates thread. :lol:

Technically though, the Skyway belongs there because it isn't an Interstate.


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## HAWC1506

I would actually prefer them to paint the interchanges gray so it doesn't give the concrete a dirty look. But the interchanges are just too big. There has to be another way to contain traffic.

And I'm not even going to start on the public transportation argument. I've gone through a total of 20 pages on two different threads for the same debate.


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## J N Winkler

Can you be more specific: why are they too big? How big should an interchange be? Given the totality of what is known about the Big I (location in an urban area within the footprint of an existing interchange built 35 years previously), how would you justify spending more money to build a smaller interchange with more or less equivalent traffic-handling capability?


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## ChrisZwolle

Radii, ramp length and the number of lanes all have their influence on capacity and traffic safety. Smaller radii means lower capacity and less-than-optimal sight lines, which makes an interchange prone to more traffic accidents, resulting in more delays, etc. Look at many older interchanges in the northeast for example. Just to put you in the right direction; check out the I-95 / Henry Hudson Parkway or the I-87 / I-95 interchanges in New York City for instance.

Of course, within urban areas, there is a limited amount of space, especially if the cost of acquiring a right-of-way is very high, substandard interchanges are found. However, if there is enough space within the existing right-of-way, I don't see why you should make a substandard interchange just for the reason that "interchanges should be smaller".


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## ManRegio

Is it feasible to build Underground Interchanges all over USA? Same Size but with some ramps underground, something like the Stack in Madrid (A1 - M40). Would that be an option for you guys??


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## ADCS

ManRegio said:


> Is it feasible to build Underground Interchanges all over USA? Same Size but with some ramps underground, something like the Stack in Madrid (A1 - M40). Would that be an option for you guys??


Yes, if expensive. You also run into flooding and ice concerns.


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## J N Winkler

We have also done air-rights developments (Boston Extension of Massachusetts Turnpike, some lengths of I-66 within the Capital Beltway, I-95 in Manhattan), several of the major system interchanges on I-105 in Los Angeles have direct connectors in tunnel, and several urban freeways in the US have deck lids (I-10/Hance Park in Phoenix, I-35 in Duluth, I-95 in downtown Philadelphia, etc.). But all of those features impose additional construction cost and some of them can reduce the economic scope for further widening. In the case of the Big I in Albuquerque, there was no demand from the public for any of them.


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## zaphod

I don't think big interchanges are necessarily unattractive. Actually to me they look quite graceful with sweeping flyovers towering high over the main lines. How many other countries besides China of course have 5-6 level stack interchanges? Kind of a cool feature of the American urban landscape to have such massive structures even if as people who appreciate cities we are supposed to dislike them for being antithesis to a human scale.

And burying them would be costly for minimal gain. There are some funky sunken interchanges, in Houston Beltway 8 and the Westpark Tollway is a pretty bizarre intersection, actually that entire road(Westpark Tollway) is unusual with an uneven number of entrances at roads and how its in and outbound lanes start/terminate at different spots on the intown end.


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## desertpunk

There's a certain aesthetic to newer interchanges like the Big I.



























all photos kim ashley.com


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## ChrisZwolle

I-45 / US 59 interchange in Houston, Texas. A lot of overpasses and fly-overs!


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## Danielk2

:eek2: That's a whole lot of overpasses :eek2:


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## TohrAlkimista

How fast are the car running? Is that a fake?


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## ChrisZwolle

It's sped up of course


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## ChrisZwolle

If I see it correctly, the video runs from northeast to southwest.

Many of these overpasses are due to the depressed freeway in the grid system of downtown Houston.


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## WA

That looks weird for some reason ^^


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## Nexis

WA said:


> That looks weird for some reason ^^


Its Texan , everything has to be big and overdone in that state :lol:


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## pwalker

As Texas standards go, this is a rather small interchange.

What I find "weird" about it, is there appears to be a major off-ramp on the right of the pic that seemingly leads directly into a bunch of empty lots. That is indeed weird, unless it was planned to be something else at one time.


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## ChrisZwolle

It's also a left-exit interchange.


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## FM 2258

This can fall under Interstate and Non-Interstate since this page discusses both, here is a link to the TxDOT highway signing policy:

http://onlinemanuals.txdot.gov/txdotmanuals/sfb/guide_sign_components.htm


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## geogregor

Guys any chance of posting some pictures from upper midwest?
North and South Dakota, Minnesota, Nebraska. I hope to go there this summer.
Any tips about road conditions?


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## ChrisZwolle

One of my favorite states:


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## ManRegio

pwalker said:


> As Texas standards go, this is a rather small interchange.
> 
> What I find "weird" about it, is there appears to be a major off-ramp on the right of the pic that seemingly leads directly into a bunch of empty lots. That is indeed weird, unless it was planned to be something else at one time.


That's what I saw in first place too. Besides weird, it's very unsafety, with those left exits and entrances, pretty crappy for Texas Standards. I can't identify another interchange in Texas with this features.


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## Stuck in Bama

I-20/59 @ I-459, 19 miles SW of Downtown Birmingham. Sorry for the bad quality


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## Stuck in Bama

18-wheelers are suppose to use I-459 if passing thru, except if they are going to I-65 north


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## Albaneren

The american motorways are good, but not up to european standard.


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## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> One of my favorite states:
> 
> [Oklahoma map]


Why?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't know, I find it interesting, the geography, cities, freeways, toll roads. For some reason some states appeal more to me than others (in a non-touristic sense).


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## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> I don't know, I find it interesting, the geography, cities, freeways, toll roads. For some reason some states appeal more to me than others (in a non-touristic sense).


It happens to me to. But in my case different states appeal to me at different times. At the moment im fascinated by both Dakotas. To such extent that I might go there this summer.
That's why I'm asking again about any pictures or information about interstates and other highways in Dakotas, Nebraska, Iowa and Minnesota. 
How about quality of roads in above states? I have driven on both coasts and all the I-10 from Atlantic to Pacific but I've never been in Midwest.


----------



## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> I don't know, I find it interesting, the geography, cities, freeways, toll roads. For some reason some states appeal more to me than others (in a non-touristic sense).


I wondered. I grew up next door, and I like to visit Oklahoma from time to time. But its freeway network looks better on paper than it does in real life, the two-lane highways are tricky (especially in the eastern part of the state), and it has a rather strange political landscape (think James Inhofe, "Alfalfa Bill" Murray, . . .). It was an early-rising giant in the oil industry (during the 1920's about 10% of world oil production was controlled by the Marland Oil Company, headquartered in Ponca City), so a lot of very large fortunes were made very fast and that has left behind a sort of _nouveau-riche_ sensibility evident in eyeblink Versailleses like the Phillips mansion in Tulsa (now home to a major art museum) and the Marland mansion in Ponca City.



geogregor said:


> That's why I'm asking again about any pictures or information about interstates and other highways in Dakotas, Nebraska, Iowa and Minnesota.


There is pretty good coverage of Nebraska and the Dakotas--I can't remember offhand if AARoads.com has in-depth Interstate coverage for these states, but Chris Geelhart has had websites on roads in the Dakotas for years and I think they are still accessible through a Google search.

My own pictures are here:

Nebraska:

http://winklers-roads.fotopic.net/c596060.html

http://winklers-roads.fotopic.net/c596056.html

http://winklers-roads.fotopic.net/c596056.html

South Dakota:

http://winklers-roads.fotopic.net/c596067.html

North Dakota:

http://winklers-roads.fotopic.net/c596246.html

There is not a whole lot of point to visiting the Dakotas without also seeing part of Wyoming. I have Wyoming pictures here:

http://winklers-roads.fotopic.net/c596088.html

http://winklers-roads.fotopic.net/c596256.html



> How about quality of roads in above states? I have driven on both coasts and all the I-10 from Atlantic to Pacific but I've never been in Midwest.


Interstates are built to the same standards nationwide and since Nebraska, Dakota, and much of eastern Wyoming are all flat terrain, a 70 MPH design speed is used in rural areas. (The posted speed limit in these areas is 75 MPH except in North Dakota, where it is 70 MPH.) But actually the Interstates make for very boring driving. Two-lane roads are generally quite good, with full hard shoulders and 65 MPH limits in flat rural areas (generally 60 MPH in Nebraska). There are some exceptions, though--the Needles Highway (a big tourist thing in Custer State Park in South Dakota) is narrow and tortuous. Most of the state highways have long lengths in the Black Hills which are narrow, tortuous, or both.

I do highly recommend a visit to the Dakotas, but remember two things: (1) bison have priority in traffic; and (2) it becomes very hard to drive during the week of the motorcycle rally in Sturgis (typically held in early August) because there are literally thousands of Harleys on the roads. Be sure to see Theodore Roosevelt National Park in North Dakota and try to time your visit Badlands National Park in South Dakota for sunset.


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## mgk920

Remember that '75 mph' = about 120 km/h. Any car that you rent will likely show both scales on the speedometer or can be easily switched to show either way.

Much of the Dakotas are high-prairie and plains, getting hillier as you go westward from the Missouri River - very desolate, REMOTE and starkly beautiful. It is one of the most sparsely populated sections of North America - a great place to get away from everything and just wander while not being too far from civilization.

Road quality is generally very good, although a large percentage of non-state highway side roads are gravel-surfaced, especially in the more remote areas. 'State' highway route markers in North Dakota use the outline of a profile of an Indian Chief's head while South Dakota uses an outline of the state's border.

Besides the other places, by all means check out the Black Hills National Forest in South Dakota. The well-known Mount Rushmore sculpture is there, a bit south of Rapid City, SD (Sturgis, SD is about 50 km northwest of RC on I-90). Check out the ongoing 100% privately-financed work at the nearby Crazy Horse Memorial sculpture, too.

The interiors of both states are in a steady, long-term economic decline with interesting to explore small, dusty farming ghost towns scattered all over while the larger cities are growing - it adds to my wonder and intrigue of that area. The Missouri River valley and its dam flowage lakes are a must-visit, too.

The second-tallest ground-supported man-made structure in the World is in North Dakota - the KVLY-TV transmitter tower, supplanted by Burj Dubai (or whatever it is now called) as the tallest a couple of years ago, is just off of I-29 between Fargo and Grand Forks, ND. (No, it doesn't have an observation deck. :no: :lol: )

Climate, summers can be hot, with high temps getting into the 35-40 range on many days. 30-35 is more normal. Spring thunderstorms are the stuff of legend while winters are cold (night time lows can get down into the -30 to -40 range and colder, -10 to -20 is normal) with occasional life-threatening snowstorms/blizzards. Bring a supply of water with you when driving around in the more remote parts.

The Dakotas have extensive Google-Earth Streetview coverage, so by all means spend some time poking around there for ideas of the scenery and local cultures.

Enjoy visiting this out of the way part of the USA - an unimaginably vast and varied nation!

:cheers1:

Mike


----------



## Tom 958

Oklahoma is OK OMG! hno:

To me, North Carolina is the most interesting state, mainly because when it comes to new roads getting built, anything can happen there.


----------



## J N Winkler

I rather wish more was. I can remember the summer of 2003 when NCDOT had so many big contracts to let (including parts of the Painter Blvd. outer beltway for Greensboro and I-73/I-74) that two lettings had to be held in the month of July. That was a long time ago and since then NCDOT has gone through about four years of funding crisis.


----------



## FM 2258

Tom 958 said:


> Oklahoma is OK OMG! hno:
> 
> To me, North Carolina is the most interesting state, mainly because when it comes to new roads getting built, anything can happen there.


Lol...I beg to differ. Texas is where it's at when it comes to roads....Texas is the best. 


Probably no surprise that I would say something like that.


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## Nexis

FM 2258 said:


> Lol...I beg to differ. Texas is where it's at when it comes to roads....Texas is the best.
> 
> 
> Probably no surprise that I would say something like that.


hmmmmm. in what category, best for congestion or show-off type? You guys win both , and no i'm not jealous , i have more in the NE to crush you guys in a Contest so ha! I like Washington state or the New England states, 5x better then Texas.


----------



## J N Winkler

I would say Texas is a winner in terms of state DOT transparency. I haven't had any difficulty getting information I have requested from TxDOT: they answer promptly without any get-out clauses. PA and NJ are paranoia central (see Winkler v. Turnpike Commission for an example). NY should do E-plans, but doesn't. For a high level of transparency you have to go to MA and ME.

WSDOT is probably the national champion in the transparency sweepstakes though.


----------



## geogregor

@ mgk920 & J N Winkler

Thanks for all the suggestions. I completely forgot about AAroads.com
I looked at some of the pictures there and on Google Earth, and it seems that quality of pavement on some parts of the I-94 is quite bad.

My plans are more or less as follows:
Flying to Minneapolis then long drive to Theodore Roosevelt NP, then south to the Black Hills region and Badlands NP. Few days there and then to Nebraska where I want to drive Sandhills Scenic Byway (Nebraska Hwy 2) to Grand Island. From there my plan is to drive I-80 all the way to Mississippi River and then follow Great River Road back to Minneapolis.
I drove in Utah, Wyoming, Idaho or eastern Oregon so I'm familiar with long open highways. I love them actually 
I hope to encounter some spectacular thunderstorms too.

How about speed enforcement in Dakotas or Nebraska? I always drive 5-10 mph over the limit. I was once stopped in Wyoming for doing 75-80 in 65 zone but as a tourist I only got a warning. It was bloody middle of nowhere, somewhere on US-189. 
I also wonder how about accommodation in some of the more remote parts of Dakotas or Nebraska. During my travels I usually stay in roadside motels listed in discount coupons booklets which I collect stopping at state welcome centers. But most of them are alongside interstates. Nebraska Hwy 2 for example seems pretty remote. Sometimes I camp, usually when I'm in National Parks.

I'm really looking forward to this trip.


----------



## J N Winkler

There are campgrounds in both Badlands NP and Theodore Roosevelt NP. If you get up really early at the latter, say six AM, you are rising with the bison since the campground is on the way to their watering spot. Unfortunately there are no hot showers, though there are RV parks nearby with tent sites and hot showers.

Motels and campgrounds are pretty thin on the ground through the Sand Hills portion of Neb. 2. However, there is plenty of cheap lodging in Alliance (on the west end of the Sand Hills stretch) and in Broken Bow (just before you get into the Sand Hills proper). I think there may be a truck stop with overnight accommodation in Thedford, but I'm not sure--it's been a long time since I was down that way.

I wouldn't recommend driving 5-10 MPH above the speed limit except when passing--the speed limits are now pretty close to the 85th percentile and also to the natural limits imposed by geometric design. I would also suggest a less Interstate-focused itinerary because long drives on Interstates are highly monotonous in this part of the country, while the two-lane state highways are generally uncongested and highly rewarding in terms of scenery.


----------



## mgk920

geogregor said:


> @ mgk920 & J N Winkler
> 
> Thanks for all the suggestions. I completely forgot about AAroads.com
> I looked at some of the pictures there and on Google Earth, and it seems that quality of pavement on some parts of the I-94 is quite bad.
> 
> My plans are more or less as follows:
> Flying to Minneapolis then long drive to Theodore Roosevelt NP, then south to the Black Hills region and Badlands NP. Few days there and then to Nebraska where I want to drive Sandhills Scenic Byway (Nebraska Hwy 2) to Grand Island. From there my plan is to drive I-80 all the way to Mississippi River and then follow Great River Road back to Minneapolis.
> I drove in Utah, Wyoming, Idaho or eastern Oregon so I'm familiar with long open highways. I love them actually
> I hope to encounter some spectacular thunderstorms too.
> 
> How about speed enforcement in Dakotas or Nebraska? I always drive 5-10 mph over the limit. I was once stopped in Wyoming for doing 75-80 in 65 zone but as a tourist I only got a warning. It was bloody middle of nowhere, somewhere on US-189.
> I also wonder how about accommodation in some of the more remote parts of Dakotas or Nebraska. During my travels I usually stay in roadside motels listed in discount coupons booklets which I collect stopping at state welcome centers. But most of them are alongside interstates. Nebraska Hwy 2 for example seems pretty remote. Sometimes I camp, usually when I'm in National Parks.
> 
> I'm really looking forward to this trip.


The roadway surfaces of some of the interstates in the high plains can look a bit threadbare, but they apparently still give a very smooth ride. The weather there can be very rugged (thus the 'threadbare' look), however traffic is light enough that the surface doesn't get bashed to hell like it can in other places. Same with the non-interstate two-laners.

For accommodations, check several of the discount motel chains, there are usually one or two of these motels in all but the smallest of cities. Super 8, Days Inn, Motel 6 and other similar places are well represented in that region and are decent. Rates are usually in the $35-50/night range.

At Grand Island, NE and on westward along US 30 is the World's busiest freight railroad. Union Pacific's mainline carries 120-150 BIG trains/day (15-20 minute headways in both directions) from a junction about 50 km to the west of Grand Island (Gibbon, NE) and on westward most of the way across Nebraska. There is a new public observation platform by their largest in the World yard at North Platte, NE. NE 2 closely follows BNSF's access to the Wyoming coalfields and their railroad there is also quite busy, but not to UP's extent. Their mainlines cross in Grand Island.

When traveling northward between the Quad Cities to MStP, by all means cross over to Wisconsin at Dubuque, IA and follow the eastern Great River Road (most of it is WI 35, but it uses several different numbered routes between Dubuque and Prairie du Chein, WI) along the river to US 10 at Prescott, WI, crossing the river into Minnesota there - STUNNING scenery!

Also, consider following US 30 across Iowa, it goes through many of those neat little towns and you can then follow US 67 and 52 from Clinton, IA to Dubuque, IA.

July and August are a bit late in the year for the really wild plains thunderstorm season.

If you are in the MStP area when the Twins are home (American League baseball), you might want to go to a game to check out their new downtown Minneapolis stadium, opening this year.

Enjoy!

Mike


----------



## Stuck in Bama

This is what usually happens on TV when a county in this area goes under a tornado warning. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHj_5-Yz-20


----------



## pwalker

The last two posts are quite accurate in what happens on US media during a tornado warning. The radio alert for Chicago is exactly how it sounds when the EAS (Emergency Alert System) kicks in. 

The local tv coverage is also quite typical. Most stations will interupt regular programming to provide wall-to-wall coverage of impending tornados. While their coverage is there to protect people, the not-so-known aspect is that these stations want to "brand" themselves as the "weather leader", and that is another strong reason why they do this extensive coverage.


----------



## xzmattzx

CptSchmidt said:


> It turns the overpass into a concentrated wind tunnel. I think this video shot by a news screw is what fuelled the idea that an overpass is a good place to hide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were very lucky to have survived. _VERY_ lucky.


Yes, as stated by a few people already, overpasses are very bad places to take shelter. Tornados are systems of low pressure, and so the higher and deeper you get into a tornado, the higher the winds are. If you are out in the open when a tornado hits, you want to be as low on the ground/in elevation as possible, because the winds are lowest there. That is your best chance of not getting picked up by the winds.


----------



## mgk920

mgk920 said:


> And here is a recording of an actual tornado warning alert on TV - locations given are close-in west and northwest Chicago suburbs and neighborhoods across the city's north side and into the downtown area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike


Meanwhile, that same tornado warning at Wrigley Field (it's in the Lakeview neighborhood, mentioned in the TV alert) during a Cubs game, complete with Chicago's sirens:






followed by:








NOW, back to the road!



Mike


----------



## Stuck in Bama

*I-20/59/US 11/AL 5 inbound around mile marker 101 *


----------



## Tom 958

A good ladder and some green paint could make this sign really funny. 

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=...id=mNXbHeYGKja0joh42BQmSQ&cbp=12,81.3,,0,2.49


----------



## Stuck in Bama

*I-65 South at I-20/59 *
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=...QRt0H_a1dTO9hmPbkELzAg&cbp=12,164.12,,0,-7.95

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=...=Qc7ObkarE1kJYeV4v5uN8Q&cbp=12,164.12,,0,7.95

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=...tGSDDN1B2kK52QGgw9Sztg&cbp=12,164.12,,0,-7.95


----------



## Stuck in Bama

*Red Mountain Expressway*
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=...oid=B5Tq8b9IANnKaLBBDv06IA&cbp=12,180.82,,0,5


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Landslide on the Kellogg Interchange in Pomona, CA (suburb of Los Angeles).









Not to mention the 3rd world pavement they have there. Good excuse to repave this one. I bet this is the original pavement from the 1960's, and if it's not, they did a crappy job.


----------



## J N Winkler

"Third world pavement"? It looks beautiful! Look how meticulously the joints have been maintained. There is minimal slab cracking too.


----------



## Nexis

I Doubt they will repave , that whole hillside needs to be restablized before anything else happens ,which can take days , weeks , or months ....and by that time there will be no money left to repave. And that road probably isn't that bad. We have roads like that here, there not that badly cracked or have potholes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

J N Winkler said:


> "Third world pavement"? It looks beautiful! Look how meticulously the joints have been maintained. There is minimal slab cracking too.


Really? This is proper concrete pavement imo:


----------



## Substructure

^^ I didn't know we were still using concrete for new highways in the EU...
Why didn't they choose regular asphalt instead ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Concrete is still widely used in highway construction. But only for freeways, not for main roads.


----------



## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> Really? This is proper concrete pavement IMO:


It is also much newer than the concrete pavement in Diamond Bar shown above. I can't see joints, so it looks like CRCP, which means it will be really ugly and rough when a harsh winter causes blowouts: give the weather gods time. Dowelled JRCP FTW.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think it's CRCP as well (edit: I'm not sure if it's reinforced), but I like it more than those slabs with huge joints between them. Well, if I have to make a choice, I prefer asphalt. It needs more maintenance, but the acoustical and drainage characteristics are much better. Plus cracks can be repaved easier than concrete. Another political disadvantage of concrete is that it can easily be neglected because it detoriates very slowly. Road authorities are forced to replace an asphalt pavement much quicker.


----------



## J N Winkler

If it is continuous, then it is reinforced--the reinforcement is necessary to resist thermal expansion.

Your perspective on the concrete versus asphalt question is clearly conditioned by European practice, some elements of which are not followed in the US. European asphalt designs are more resistant to rutting and deformation than American ones--we don't use HRA and barely use SMA, for example. European highway agencies are also far more likely than their American counterparts to schedule some form of asphalt pavement maintenance (such as renewal of the top course) before rutting develops. Standards for subgrade CBR are in general higher and this allows European asphalt pavements to hold their surface geometry better.

There are some bad aspects to European practice with regard to asphalt pavements, such as the persistent tendency in Britain to use proprietary thin surfacing courses which break up after a heavy rainstorm, but on the whole Europeans have less to fear from their asphalt pavements than Americans do from theirs.

In the US, asphalt pavement is typically bad news during a heavy rainstorm because rutting can and does cause hydroplaning. There is less scope for open-grade surfacings because freeze-thaw cycles make it problematic to rely on rainwater percolating below the top layer of aggregate. As a result, in the US the conservative design is one that relies on water draining off the top of the pavement, without penetrating below the top aggregate layer, and that in turn means using a rigid material--concrete--which will resist rutting and hold its engineered crossfall over time. A well-drained concrete pavement is also pretty forgiving of undermaintenance.

Noise is governed by many variables and I have driven on some recently constructed instances of dowelled JRCP which were pretty quiet--I couldn't feel the transitions from slab to slab. We probably do have more of a problem with road spray, but IMO fixing it is not worth the risk of more asphalt pavement susceptible to rutting.


----------



## Rail Claimore

ChrisZwolle said:


> Really? This is proper concrete pavement imo:


And typical on all new and rebuilt concrete roadways in the US. Practically the entire Illinois Tollway system around Chicago has concrete like that now thanks to rebuilding over the past 3 years.


----------



## dl3000

Thats cool. My guess is JRCP is better suited to earthquake prone regions as well, at least compared to CRCP. Plus the low maintenance benefits are why JRCP is Caltrans' pavement of choice. Only instances I see asphalt are where there are several hotels adjacent to the road or dense residential areas. Im surprised the freeze thaw cycles aren't a major issue in Europe with the CRCP. I guess the mix designs are air entrained and all that.


----------



## Cosmoboy

The following is a video I took of I-85 in Charlotte, NC. I realize the quality isn't the best, but I'm hoping to upgrade to a Canon 7D soon. I, also, have other videos from NC on my YouTube account. Hope you enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuOdcXJTTFs


----------



## Barciur

Hi guys, just wanted to follow up, I woke up in the morning and seeing the forecasts I booked AMTRAK and am here up in Boston and safe, where they haven't seen snow at all (just couple of inches last week) in the past few weeks.. As I was going through NJ and NYC, it was snowing quite hard, so I figured thank god I can just kick back and relax in the quiet car of AMTRAK rather than worrying about driving in this mess.. all in all, I'm here and I'm glad, thanks for the advise about AMTRAK, it was really smart and I didn't even think of it.


----------



## Nexis

Barciur said:


> Hi guys, just wanted to follow up, I woke up in the morning and seeing the forecasts I booked AMTRAK and am here up in Boston and safe, where they haven't seen snow at all (just couple of inches last week) in the past few weeks.. As I was going through NJ and NYC, it was snowing quite hard, so I figured thank god I can just kick back and relax in the quiet car of AMTRAK rather than worrying about driving in this mess.. all in all, I'm here and I'm glad, thanks for the advise about AMTRAK, it was really smart and I didn't even think of it.


Your Welcome , quiet car eh. Now i'm jealous :lol: , i guess it was on the Acela? The Storm itself won't totally be gone intill Sunday, when it pulls up into Northern New England , intill then on and off snow showers.


----------



## Barciur

No, all Acela trains to Boston were cancelled :O made me nervous that my AMTRAK Regional will get cancelled but it didn't.. but let me tell you, I got on the train and it was so packed I got to business class without noticing and got kicked out :lol: So I went one car back and realized it's a quiet car.. never meant to really go there just happened to be there. And now it's snowing up here.. do you guys have a list of roads/interstates that were closed yesterday/thursday? Would be curious to know what happened.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Worst was Northeastern Pennsylvania where over 2 feet fell.


----------



## Nexis

Barciur said:


> No, all Acela trains to Boston were cancelled :O made me nervous that my AMTRAK Regional will get cancelled but it didn't.. but let me tell you, I got on the train and it was so packed I got to business class without noticing and got kicked out :lol: So I went one car back and realized it's a quiet car.. never meant to really go there just happened to be there. And now it's snowing up here.. do you guys have a list of roads/interstates that were closed yesterday/thursday? Would be curious to know what happened.


Alot were closed , Interstates ,Roads , streets, but now there open. Although some are still hazardous , falling Ice , and wet snow are causing accidents on back roads and some major roads. Even in NYC there are and were accidents due to this. Power is out in alot of rural areas and semi suburban and they expect everything to be back normal by Tuesday. The Rails are all ok , except the Port Jervis line which shut down , due to many trees that need clearing. Alot of damaged homes due to trees and wind brought down some signs alot the highway. Another storm is coming on Wedensday , which might be bigger or smaller. I'm a little shocked that Acela got canceled , becuz my friend filmed a few , the day of the storm in Linden,NJ. I'm not surprised Northeast Regional was packed , it always is , Unfortnatly all there classes look the same , except for a few differences. Did you snap some photos while you bounced along @ 90-130mph? Any of I-95?


----------



## Gaeus

Nexis said:


> Alot were closed , Interstates ,Roads , streets, but now there open. Although some are still hazardous , falling Ice , and wet snow are causing accidents on back roads and some major roads. Even in NYC there are and were accidents due to this. Power is out in alot of rural areas and semi suburban and they expect everything to be back normal by Tuesday. The Rails are all ok , except the Port Jervis line which shut down , due to many trees that need clearing. Alot of damaged homes due to trees and wind brought down some signs alot the highway. Another storm is coming on Wedensday , which might be bigger or smaller. I'm a little shocked that Acela got canceled , becuz my friend filmed a few , the day of the storm in Linden,NJ. I'm not surprised Northeast Regional was packed , it always is , Unfortnatly all there classes look the same , except for a few differences. Did you snap some photos while you bounced along @ 90-130mph? Any of I-95?


You should see how Washington DC Area got devastated last month with more than 24 inches of snow. I went to 5 different stores/groceries and found no milk, no eggs, no butter and of course, no rock/salts to treat the road/walkway.


----------



## Nexis

Gaeus said:


> You should see how Washington DC Area got devastated last month with more than 24 inches of snow. I went to 5 different stores/groceries and found no milk, no eggs, no butter and of course, no rock/salts to treat the road/walkway.


You ran out of salt , we haven't yet , so the roads and highways here are good now , its just the fallen trees and branches here.


----------



## Stuck in Bama

*I-459 South. This also is where the western end of the Northern Beltline is proposed*








*First public meeting on this bypass was in 1966. It was opened to traffic in 1985.*








*I-65 is 15 miles from this point*


----------



## Rail Claimore

^^ I remember taking that route at least twice a week when I lived in Tuscaloosa, usually for road trips to Atlanta.


----------



## Bart_LCY

Some interesting videos regarding Alaskan Way Viaduct:

*Earthquake simulation*:






*Bored tunnel video*:






*Waterfront boulevard video*:


----------



## JohnFlint1985

Stuck in Bama said:


> *Driving from the burbs on the westside to the central city
> *


these roads seem like in a perfect condition. In NJ we shall have to fix so many potholes after this winter that I am not sure if all this can be done in a timely fashion. roads are not that good as they used to anymore. hno:


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Those were very nice animations!! They really need to start on that project!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The crazy I-95 / Henry Hudson Parkway interchange in New York City.


----------



## Stuck in Bama

^^Interesting design


----------



## Stuck in Bama

JohnFlint1985 said:


> these roads seem like in a perfect condition. In NJ we shall have to fix so many potholes after this winter that I am not sure if all this can be done in a timely fashion. roads are not that good as they used to anymore. hno:



ALDOT over the last ten years have been repairing the older concrete surfaces, then laying asphalt on 20/59 from MM 116 to MM 128. 

We have our share of potholes also, especially with this weather we've been having lately.


----------



## jchernin

kub86 said:


> ^^Increasing capacity simply increases unnecessary traffic.
> 
> I found this quote from a siegel article on ssp:
> 
> "Manhattan's West Side Highway, an elevated freeway along the Hudson River, collapsed and was closed in 1973. *When it was closed, 53 percent of the traffic that had used this freeway simply disappeared.* The political establishment took it for granted that they had to replace it with a bigger and better freeway, but citizen resistance delayed the replacement for two decades, and finally even the politicians saw that the city was getting along quite well without any freeway here. Instead of replacing the freeway, the city simply added new medians, a waterfront park, and a bicycle path to the surface street here."
> 
> It's a phenomenon called "disappearing traffic" when freeways are torn down. EVERYBODY expects crazy traffic jams, but in reality the opposite happens. Why? Because people's driving habits change. Everybody assumes that driving habits will remain the same before and after the viaduct.
> 
> We're not going to have a viaduct for 10 years anyway while we tear it down/rebuild it; people are going to realize that the city's doing just fine without one as people adjust to the new environment. Just tear it down for pete's sake!!





OneRinconHill said:


> I would never want to drive on this viaduct. It was designed in the same fashion as the Embarcadero freeway and the Cypress Structure. I'm surprised that it survived Nisqually, but I don't think it'll withstand another earthquake. They need to hurry up and put something else there. It might also be good for Seattle to open up the waterfront.


when san francisco tore down the embarcadero elevated freeway following the loma prieta earthquake, they expected massive traffic jams. however, the current boulevard and streetcar line handle the traffic adequately, while creating a popular walking and running destination with stunning views of downtown san francisco, oakland, and the bay bridge. the ferry building, once obscured by freeway onramps, has become its own destination famous for its food market.

same thing with the central freeway, which was torn down and replaced with octavia boulevard:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sfcityscape/sets/72157607043225086/

(note, these are not my pictures, but sfcityscapes)

in fact, san francisco was to be criss-crossed with freeways:

http://www.sfcityscape.com/maps/more/freeway_revolt.jpg

contrary to popular belief, u dont 'need' freeways (at least within city centers)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Embarcadero Freeway only carried 40,000 - 70,000 AADT. A grid pattern street system like San Francisco has is capable of absorbing that kind of traffic. It's quite different when it is a through route, imagine demolishing I-80 in Oakland or US 101 south of San Francisco for example.

The Alaskan Way viaduct carries 74,000 AADT. That's also not very much, a six lane boulevard with signals would be capable of carrying that kind of traffic. But the question is if it's desirable to have that kind of traffic on city streets.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

jchernin said:


> when san francisco tore down the embarcadero elevated freeway following the loma prieta earthquake, they expected massive traffic jams. however, the current boulevard and streetcar line handle the traffic adequately, while creating a popular walking and running destination with stunning views of downtown san francisco, oakland, and the bay bridge. the ferry building, once obscured by freeway onramps, has become its own destination famous for its food market.
> 
> same thing with the central freeway, which was torn down and replaced with octavia boulevard:
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/sfcityscape/sets/72157607043225086/
> 
> (note, these are not my pictures, but sfcityscapes)
> 
> in fact, san francisco was to be criss-crossed with freeways:
> 
> http://www.sfcityscape.com/maps/more/freeway_revolt.jpg
> 
> contrary to popular belief, u dont 'need' freeways (at least within city centers)


San Fransisco has horrible traffic too while tearing down that freeway was a good choice it also adds traffic to other routes in the city. Traffic never disappears but commuting patterns do change. They need to just build a tunnel it is the best solution in this case.


----------



## Nexis

Stuck in Bama said:


> ^^Interesting design


Its always bottlenecked and it needs an overhaul. Also the Concrete and steel are rotting away.hno:


----------



## jchernin

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Embarcadero Freeway only carried 40,000 - 70,000 AADT. A grid pattern street system like San Francisco has is capable of absorbing that kind of traffic. It's quite different when it is a *through route*, imagine demolishing I-80 in Oakland or US 101 south of San Francisco for example.
> 
> The Alaskan Way viaduct carries 74,000 AADT. That's also not very much, a six lane boulevard with signals would be capable of carrying that kind of traffic. But the question is if it's desirable to have that kind of traffic on city streets.


ur definitely right. the embarcadero, as is alaskan way, are (were) stub freeways. the situation changes when refering major connecting routes - heck what about US 101 north of sf (my hood)? in marin county no alternatives exist other than the freeway. demolishing that would be ludicrous. stub freeways that cover PRIME real estate (like waterfront property), different story.

if the automobiles are kept far enough away from pedestrians then its ok to have that kind of traffic. on octavia blvd they created 'local lanes' for peds, bike and cars accessing buildings on that block and two through lanes for faster traffic. that gives people the feeling of safety since cars are kept far away.



I-275westcoastfl said:


> San Fransisco has horrible traffic too while tearing down that freeway was a good choice it also adds traffic to other routes in the city. *Traffic never disappears but commuting patterns do change.* They need to just build a tunnel it is the best solution in this case.


thats right, sf has a transit first policy. that means creating DISINCENTIVES for driving and incentives for transit. if you make driving easy, then people will drive, period.


----------



## dl3000

poshbakerloo said:


> I know that as I used to live in Moscow. The like I said before, the cars are there because the roads are there. It is a pretty exceptional example tho. Driving in Moscow was never very easy due to the traffic, which is why I used to take the metro to most places. But the thing is with Moscow is that the roads weren't built because they were needed. Some of the roads such as I think its the Nov. Arbat where built as easy access to the country side. And others, like in Paris for ceremonial reasons etc, they just filled with cars later...This is the main difference with the US's freeways which were built specially for all the cars used in suburban areas...


What you are referring to is induced demand "build it and they will come." The interstates were originally devised under the pretense that they would be a defense and missile delivery and transport system. The military determined which roads were strategically necessary first and then the rest of the system followed. The US had an extensive and efficient streetcar system everywhere, but regulation detached the streetcar companies from their utilities and real estate subsidiaries along with a fixed fare that eventually killed the systems. It's a matter of right place at the right time. LA has several freeways that are only 6 lanes and are quite old. 

Bottom line, its all a matter of land use. Cities with a dense core can handle transit. LA is one of the densest cities in the world, but the density is spread evenly on a large area.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I never realized how big this interchange was... Because you have no point of reference, until I measured it.


----------



## Stuck in Bama

^^Wow talk about being in the middle of nowhere, but I would guess that this part of West Texas is very scenic as well.


----------



## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


> Awesome video from Freewayjim of I-20 through Birmingham, Alabama. Better watch it on full res on the Youtube site.



why do not americans *keep right*? isnt it obligatory?

many driver slowpoke in the inner (or middle) lane so many other driver have to overtake on the right...

this is total chaos... :bash:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The best way is to allow passing on the right. Europeans also tend to drive in the middle lane for no reason on 3+ lane-each-way-roads. You can get all worked up and blame "all those stupid drivers", but that just doesn't work. The police has better things to do than enforcing keep-right-unless-to-pass on a large scale.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

I always drive in the middle lane because I swear half the drivers on the road don't know the rule of keep right. In Florida it is the law to keep right and move out of the left lane for a faster car its just not enforced.


----------



## pwalker

H123Laci said:


> why do not americans *keep right*? isnt it obligatory?
> 
> many driver slowpoke in the inner (or middle) lane so many other driver have to overtake on the right...
> 
> this is total chaos... :bash:


I didn't see any real bad driving in this video. For the most part, everyone seemed courteous and alert. Add in left-exits, which are more common than most would believe, and this is quite normal. 

As for middle-lane driving, yes I am guilty too. Only because that is the kind of driver I am...not slow, not a speeder, so the middle works for me. Perhaps that is the mentality of the average driver.


----------



## pwalker

ChrisZwolle said:


> Awesome video from Freewayjim of I-20 through Birmingham, Alabama. Better watch it on full res on the Youtube site.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Freewayjim surely offers one of the best in road movies on Youtube. If you like them, be sure to also check out the videos of FreewayBrent (all over North America) and ScrewdUPClickV2 (mainly Texas).


I didn't see any real bad driving in this video. Everyone seems quite courteous and alert. Plus, with some left-exits, which is more common than one would expect. 

As for middle-lane driving, I am guilty as well. I am not a slow driver, but I'm not a speed-junkie either, so the middle is just fine. I think most drivers fit into this category.


----------



## Mr. Pollo

ChrisZwolle said:


> I never realized how big this interchange was... Because you have no point of reference, until I measured it.


Is this where I-20 starts? Near Kent, TX ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's right Mr. Pollo


----------



## Tom 958

I'd never looked at the I-10-I-20 interchange before, but it uses an extremely economical layout requiring only one bridge for one roadway but also requiring a left exit, a left entrance, and weaving. This layout was used for a few very early interchanges and even as an at-grade layout, but surely this is the only place it's used on the Interstate System.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interstate 70 is closed in the Glenwood Canyon in Colorado after a major rockslide. The detour is 200 miles.

edit: picture by Denver Post


----------



## Stuck in Bama

^^Yikes


----------



## FM 2258

^^^

Wow, now we have Interstate 40 and Interstate 70 closed do to rock slides in this country.


----------



## snowman159

And it's not the first time this has happened. That section of I-70 is very prone to rock slides.

If you look at the Denver Post article you can see another picture of a giant hole in the middle of driving lanes. Thank god no one was around when it happened.


----------



## Nexis

Thats happens alot on Mountainous highways , it usually doesn't make the news Unless the highway will be closed for days or weeks. But Mother Nature is trying to tell us to get off her back. This should serve as a warning not to build any more infastrature in these types of areas , unless there Power lines.


----------



## dl3000

Time to TUNNEL!!! lol. Only joking. On CA-1 near Pacifica, CA there is a section called Devil's Slide, its taken years of slides to prompt them to tunnel the area because it is a major route to SF from the coastal peninsula. 

That appears to be a really pretty road.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nexis said:


> But Mother Nature is trying to tell us to get off her back. This should serve as a warning not to build any more infastrature in these types of areas , unless there Power lines.


lol, if a country is bisected by mountains, they shouldn't connect both sides of a country? What a nonsense....


----------



## snowman159

There are ways to protect roads from falling rocks. Whether or not that would be feasible in Glenwood Canyon, I don't know.


----------



## dl3000

Dont forget shotcrete but probably not strong enough. Is the last one rock bolts? Those could work.


----------



## poshbakerloo

There a highway (I forget which one) somewhere in south western Utah which I travelled on in 2008 that is pretty much running along the bottom of a very narrow canyon. And then at some point on a cliff face!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ San Rafael Swell. One of the coolest Interstate sections in the United States.

Freewaybrent made an awesome video:


----------



## dl3000

There is a cool part on the 15 north of Vegas in Arizona where the road goes straight toward some steep mountains and then at the last minute does a quick curve and tucks neatly between them. It was pretty interesting.


----------



## nerdly_dood

i saw that pic of rocks on the highway in my local newspaper yesterday... i'd hate to have to drive through that.


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ San Rafael Swell. One of the coolest Interstate sections in the United States.
> 
> Freewaybrent made an awesome video:


It is cool video indeed. But I have to say I-15 north of Las Vegas is equally or even more spectacular. Or how about I-84 in Columbia River Gorge in Oregon.
By the way last year I drove UT 24 from Hanksville to I-70 and then US 6 to Salt Lake City. All these roads are spectacular.
On UT 24 first time in my life I reached just about 100mph :shifty:
It is two lane highway but dead straight, you could drive 150mph with no problem. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depends from the point of view) my rental car just couldn't do more as it was slightly uphill 
Honestly I don't see the point of 75mph speed limit on I-70 (or on most of the rural interstates in that matter). Just put warning signs ahead of the curves and let people drive as they wish.


----------



## dl3000

nerdly_dood said:


> i saw that pic of rocks on the highway in my local newspaper yesterday... i'd hate to have to drive through that.


You don't drive through it, there are rocks in the way


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## dl3000

Here is that section of I 15 I was referring to. Just tucks right into that canyon. Virgin River Gorge in Arizona.


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## pwalker

Nice video from I-70 and I-15. 

The I-15 stretch north of Vegas only crosses Arizona for about 30 miles, but it is spectacular. 

The I-70 stretch in Utah is amazing, too. And I agree, with little traffic, speed limits there are not needed, except for curves. But that becomes a political debate. Some areas of Texas and Utah currently have 80 mph limits in limited areas.


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## GOUST

Virgin River This is a highway?
winding and it is impossible to develop a 150 km / h -200 km / h

Some idiot is designed, it should make up the tunnel to be rode straight.
Other roads have nice


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## geogregor

pwalker said:


> Nice video from I-70 and I-15.
> 
> The I-15 stretch north of Vegas only crosses Arizona for about 30 miles, but it is spectacular.
> 
> The I-70 stretch in Utah is amazing, too. And I agree, with little traffic, speed limits there are not needed, except for curves. But that becomes a political debate. Some areas of Texas and Utah currently have 80 mph limits in limited areas.


Even 80 mph is still incredible low on straight rural interstates, look at highways in Kansas, Wyoming, Idaho.
The only problem might be poor line discipline among US drivers. But it could be connected as some sort of campaign, promoting keeping to the right as part of introducing higher speed limits. It could work if well done.



GOUST said:


> Virgin River This is a highway?
> winding and it is impossible to develop a 150 km / h -200 km / h
> 
> 
> 
> It is great road, I drove there last year as well, no probles. Of course you have to slow down but what a spectacular drive it is. I prefer it from another boring tunnel. You can drive half of the Italian Alps and almost not see mountains. Comparing with that, US interstates are very refreshing.
> In places like that speed limit makes perfect sense but there are oly relatively short winding stretches on interstetes west of Mississippi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some idiot is designed, it should make up the tunnel to be rode straight.
> Other roads have nice
> 
> 
> 
> Some idiot would design tunnel where it is not needed at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## KIWIKAAS

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ San Rafael Swell. One of the coolest Interstate sections in the United States.
> 
> Freewaybrent made an awesome video:


Wow! What a beautiful route


----------



## Stuck in Bama

geogregor said:


> It is cool video indeed. But I have to say I-15 north of Las Vegas is equally or even more spectacular. Or how about I-84 in Columbia River Gorge in Oregon.
> By the way last year I drove UT 24 from Hanksville to I-70 and then US 6 to Salt Lake City. All these roads are spectacular.
> On UT 24 first time in my life I reached just about 100mph :shifty:
> It is two lane highway but dead straight, you could drive 150mph with no problem. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depends from the point of view) my rental car just couldn't do more as it was slightly uphill
> *Honestly I don't see the point of 75mph speed limit on I-70 (or on most of the rural interstates in that matter). Just put warning signs ahead of the curves and let people drive as they wish*.


Because the "safety nuts" would come out the wood work with their usual cry about how dangerous something like that would be. I wouldnt mind seeing no speed limits on rural interstates, or seeing some kind of electronic system that could determine the proper speed limit according to weather conditions and/or traffic volume. I thought the purpose of having limited access interstates was to get a person from point A to point B as quickly as possible.


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## ChrisZwolle

It's way too expensive to install electronic signs on every mile of rural interstate that carries 30,000 AADT or less. I'd say a 75 - 80 mph speed limit is quite fair. I've read Illinois is finally considering raising their speed limits. Only from 65 to 70 mph, but it's a start.


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## J N Winkler

I agree with GOUST--the length of I-70 shown in FreewayBrent's clip is in many respects a textbook example of how *not* to design a freeway. With bright sunlight over the driver's (and videographer's) shoulder, the cuts and fills look rather impressive, but the curves fail perspective evaluation. As a general rule, the alignment of a high-speed road should look like a string hanging naturally between your current position and the "vanishing point" (the furthest point on the highway that is visible to you). In contradistinction, the video clip shows several instances of the I-70 alignment slewing abruptly to one side, and then back to the other side, between the driver's eye position and the vanishing point. It would have been more expensive but would have given a much better service to motorists if viaducts had been constructed to bypass these sharp curves. I do not think an alignment optimized to pass perspective evaluation would have had to have tunnels, and the views of the landscape off to the sides would have been more or less the same. A less tortuous alignment would give drivers a fuller opportunity to enjoy the scenery.

I have actually driven this length of I-70 myself, but only at night. I would say that 60 MPH is a reasonable speed only by daylight in a car with grippy tires. At night, and with only the lane and shoulder striping to provide positive guidance, the curves are extremely punishing since they have high degree, high delta, and because I-70 is in an icing-prone part of Utah, low maximum superelevation. This means that the side friction demand is great and less of the retroreflective striping is visible in the car headlamps at night, which makes it difficult to tell when a curve ends and tangent begins. From memory, the recommended speed for truckers on this portion of I-70 (which is also called the Spotted Wolf Alignment) is either 35 or 45 MPH and I had to set my cruise control to 40 MPH to handle the curves safely in pitch-black dark.


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## dl3000

GOUST said:


> Virgin River This is a highway?
> winding and it is impossible to develop a 150 km / h -200 km / h
> 
> Some idiot is designed, it should make up the tunnel to be rode straight.
> Other roads have nice


The speed limit is 88 km/h (55 mph) which used to be the speed limit on all urban highways so it is not too slow. Im thinking you can do 100 km/h and be fine. I think there is not enough traffic through the road to justify the investment in tunnels. There would be MANY to traverse the distance. The goal was just to put a higher capacity road through the area to allow connectivity, I don't think achieving modern roadway speed was an objective.


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## nerdly_dood

dl3000 said:


> You don't drive through it, there are rocks in the way


no, i mean when they're falling... :storm:


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## dl3000

I was joking. It rarely happens. I remember I had some friends from Jersey over and one was driving and the sign said caution falling rocks and he was all paranoid. When it does though, godspeed.


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## HAWC1506

U.S. highways (at least the old ones) don't exactly meet the standard of 80 mph design. There are certainly some parts where 70-80mph are possible, but there's always a curve or two in there that is unacceptable for the road.

I think crowned roadway is a factor too. Crowned roadways seem to make superelevation for high speeds difficult. I have yet to see a crowned highway where superelevation is completely smooth.

And there's also a restriction of how much a road can be superelevated due to icing conditions (they don't want cars sliding inwards during snow/ice situations).


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## Davodavo

What's the speed limit in the USA when driving on motorways?


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## ChrisZwolle

Usually 55 - 65 mph in urban areas and 65 - 75 mph in rural areas, depending on state. Some sections in Texas and Utah allow 80 mph.


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## H123Laci

pwalker said:


> I didn't see any real bad driving in this video. For the most part, everyone seemed courteous and alert. Add in left-exits, which are more common than most would believe, and this is quite normal.



left-exit is unsafe and obsolete...


----------



## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


> Usually 55 - 65 mph in urban areas and 65 - 75 mph in rural areas, depending on state. Some sections in Texas and Utah allow 80 mph.



these are ridiculously low limits. 

even the 80mph is low on low traffic sections, there should be 90 or 100mph...


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## ChrisZwolle

I doubt if Interstate cross slope and curvature is designed for such speeds. Imo, 75 - 80 mph is a fine speed limit in rural areas if it's not enforced too strictly. 

What I do like about the US is the higher truck speed limits. Even the lowest speeds limits for trucks (California: 55 mph) are among the highest in Europe. Some areas even allow trucks doing 70 mph. I'm not sure if American rigs are more stable due to their much longer tractor base.


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## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> I doubt if Interstate cross slope and curvature is designed for such speeds.


They aren't. The catalogue of available design speeds for Interstates maxes out at 70 MPH. Of course a state DOT or other highway agency can develop a compliant design which has enough "slack" to allow much higher speeds, but as a rule the driver can't count on more than 70 MPH in rural areas.



> What I do like about the US is the higher truck speed limits. Even the lowest speeds limits for trucks (California: 55 mph) are among the highest in Europe. Some areas even allow trucks doing 70 mph. I'm not sure if American rigs are more stable due to their much longer tractor base.


They aren't and they may in fact be more susceptible to jackknifing because the greater wheelbase of the tractor unit means more of a lever arm. Differential speed limits are unpopular with the trucking industry (especially owner-operators), and car drivers in general have a mixed opinion of them, so in the absence of clear evidence of their safety benefits, many states don't have them. FHWA several years ago sponsored a study to evaluate the safety implications of differential speed limits and was not able to prove that there were any benefits to having them.

This said, I have been told that a number of major trucking firms (Schneider, e.g.) voluntarily govern their tractor-trailers to speeds which are higher than the EU-wide limit of 56 MPH but still slightly below the speed limit for cars in many states--e.g., 62 MPH.


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## FM 2258

ChrisZwolle said:


> I doubt if Interstate cross slope and curvature is designed for such speeds. Imo, 75 - 80 mph is a fine speed limit in rural areas if it's not enforced too strictly.
> 
> What I do like about the US is the higher truck speed limits. Even the lowest speeds limits for trucks (California: 55 mph) are among the highest in Europe. Some areas even allow trucks doing 70 mph. I'm not sure if American rigs are more stable due to their much longer tractor base.


I was surprised to see that in California. Having to drive up Interstate 5 between Los Angeles and Sacramento at 55mph must make a driver very sleeeeepy.


----------



## poshbakerloo

H123Laci said:


> these are ridiculously low limits.
> 
> even the 80mph is low on low traffic sections, there should be 90 or 100mph...


Its not that low. 100Mph is way too high for a lot of peoples cars. Its surprising how bad some cars drive over 70Mph


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## HAWC1506

ChrisZwolle said:


> What I do like about the US is the higher truck speed limits. Even the lowest speeds limits for trucks (California: 55 mph) are among the highest in Europe. Some areas even allow trucks doing 70 mph. I'm not sure if American rigs are more stable due to their much longer tractor base.


That's one of the things I don't like about our highways. Trucks (at least in Washington) often go as fast, if not faster than normal speed limits. With trucks as large as those in the U.S., and tight curves on the highways, it's almost unnerving to drive next to them when they're driving as fast as you are.

It's a safety issue too, because the distance it takes to stop an 18-wheeler is significantly higher. They often cruise in the middle lane as well, which creates havoc in the immediate traffic flow behind them.


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## HAWC1506

J N Winkler said:


> They aren't. The catalogue of available design speeds for Interstates maxes out at 70 MPH.


I do remember seeing 80 mph design criteria somewhere from WSDOT...I'll see if I can find it.


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## J N Winkler

FAPG § 630(b) Supplement advises state DOTs (and other highway agencies performing federally funded construction) to put the important design criteria for a new-location highway, including the design speed, on the title page of the construction plans set. So if you find a title sheet that says 80 MPH, save it and show us--I can promise it will be _very_ unusual.


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## sonysnob

^ I work designing roads here in Canada (boring municipal ones though, not any interesting freeways or anything). The Canadian TAC manual has design criteria for design speeds up to 130km/h. In Canada, it is typical to design a road at 20km/h over what the posted speed limit will be once open to traffic. I would imagine design in the US has a similar factor of safety.


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## J N Winkler

The impression I have is that, pre-NMSL, posting the speed limit below the design speed was more common east of the Mississippi and the difference between the design speed and the posted speed was rarely more than 5 to 10 MPH. In the western states agencies typically designed for 70 and posted 70 in rural areas (yes, even Oregon). With the advent of speed limits up to 75 or even 80 MPH, there is now significant mileage which is posted in excess of the design speed. Building to a design speed 5 to 10 MPH above the speed proposed for posting is, again, happening largely east of the Mississippi, but in many cases the speed limits are increased (up to design speed or even beyond) when motorists' groups lobby for observance of the 85th percentile rule.

I have seen curve superelevation tables for design speeds of up to 100 MPH and 160 km/h, but I know of no Interstate highway which has been built to a design speed greater than 70 MPH.


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## HAWC1506

J N Winkler said:


> The impression I have is that, pre-NMSL, posting the speed limit below the design speed was more common east of the Mississippi and the difference between the design speed and the posted speed was rarely more than 5 to 10 MPH. In the western states agencies typically designed for 70 and posted 70 in rural areas (yes, even Oregon). With the advent of speed limits up to 75 or even 80 MPH, there is now significant mileage which is posted in excess of the design speed. Building to a design speed 5 to 10 MPH above the speed proposed for posting is, again, happening largely east of the Mississippi, but in many cases the speed limits are increased (up to design speed or even beyond) when motorists' groups lobby for observance of the 85th percentile rule.
> 
> I have seen curve superelevation tables for design speeds of up to 100 MPH and 160 km/h, but I know of no Interstate highway which has been built to a design speed greater than 70 MPH.


I've seen figures for 80 mph, but I have yet to see it be applied anywhere. So I guess the tables and such are there in many cases, but the application isn't.

For speed limits, the 85th percentile is used, so the speed at which 85 per cent of motorists are travelling will become the speed limit.

[Update]: found a diagram.










I'm too lazy to change it to the metric system. As someone who plans on studying civil engineering, the one thing I'm absolutely not looking forward to is using English system units. I can only hope that in the future, all of our roads will _at least _ be designed in metric.

Maybe I'll move to Britain.


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## sonysnob

I'm surprised any transportation agency would permit a speed limit that is higher than the design speed of a given road. There are some pretty considerable legal ramifications posting a speed limit over the road design. If the speed limit is higher than the road design speed, the state would be liable for damages for virtually _all_ traffic collisions.


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## HAWC1506

In Washington, there's actually a law stating that the maximum speed you can travel at is 70 mph. Any speed above that would require a change in legislation, which is not likely to happen anytime soon.

It's very difficult to generalize the U.S. when it comes to these criteria. Every state has a different system.


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## J N Winkler

This PDF comparing the WSDOT design manual to the 2004 AASHTO Green Book is also of interest:

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/publications/fulltext/ProjectDev/ProjectSummary/Compare_AASHTO-06.pdf

It appears that AASHTO now has a headline 80 MPH design speed for Interstates. The wrinkle here, however, is that the 2004 Green Book now allows lower _k_-values for summit curves (unwinding the dead-dog theory), so where vertical alignment is concerned today's 80 MPH could very well be yesterday's 70 MPH. I don't have my copies of the 1984 Green Book or the 1965 Blue Book to hand, so I can't comment in detail on how 70 and 80 MPH design speeds have been treated in AASHTO guidance in the past.

In any case, design speed is a bit of a red herring because different jurisdictions attribute different geometric characteristics to the same design speed. There are some reasons, not encountered in Europe, why American agencies need to be careful about speed limits in relation to design speed. First, American design standards generally allow curves to be built with smaller radii than is the case for equivalent design speeds in most European countries. Second, AASHTO standards give designers the discretion of choosing a maximum superelevation based on icing, and this is not linked to curve radius, so a curve of given radius at a given design speed can have multiple levels of side friction demand depending on the designer's choice of maximum superelevation. Third, the American approach to relating superelevation to curve radius is different and results in higher side friction demand as curve radius contracts. These factors, combined with the historical bias in favor of long-tangent, short-curve alignments, means that Interstates typically have less "slack" where higher speeds are concerned than European motorways.


----------



## Hyperspace

Davodavo said:


> What's the speed limit in the USA when driving on motorways?


It varies, 70 mph is usually the standard. But it is acceptable to go 5 mph over the speed limit, so that would make 75 mph. But it depends where you are, some states allow you to go faster, paticulary in Texas and the southwest. In Texas you can go up to 85 mph on the Interstate.

Here is a full list by state.

http://www.motorists.org/speedlimits/home/state-speed-limit-chart/


----------



## geogregor

sonysnob said:


> I'm surprised any transportation agency would permit a speed limit that is higher than the design speed of a given road. There are some pretty considerable legal ramifications posting a speed limit over the road design. If the speed limit is higher than the road design speed, the state would be liable for damages for virtually _all_ traffic collisions.


There is always an issue of German motorways with no speed limit. You can't say they were designed for an infinite speed. They just relay on driver's common sense. You drive as fast as you feel confident, it all depends from quality of your car and your abilities as a driver. 
Even if you post speed limit lower than designed speed, if someone drives old crap car will have to go even slower to stay safe. You can't use design speed as a safe speed limit.
Also in Poland roads designed for speed of 110 or 120kph have speed limit posted 130kph if I'm correct.
Speed limit of, let say, 100mph on rural interstate wouldn't mean that you can safely drive 100mph in any car in any condition. If you mess around you can still be prosecuted for dangerous driving as you can in Germany.
I just personally think that blanket speed limit is quite blunt tool to improve safety, especially considering poor enforcement of the other rules on American roads (like lane discipline, indicating etc.)
Speed limit has more to do with legal system than with road design.


----------



## dl3000

H123Laci said:


> these are ridiculously low limits.
> 
> even the 80mph is low on low traffic sections, there should be 90 or 100mph...


Virtually nobody follows these exactly. In addition, in urban areas, these speed limits are very reasonable in the densest areas. With so many interchanges in succession in LA I get nervous going 70 in some parts simply from all the merging and splitting. I'm sure the roads back east that only have 2 lanes in each direction on many of the interstates don't have a choice but to slow down from the traffic.


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## pwalker

For what it's worth, the US Interstate system was designed for 70 mph speeds, which was the designated speed limit for Interstates in the late 50's, when the system came on line. 

This does not include mountainous areas where speeds obviously need to be lowered.


----------



## Barciur

> It varies, 70 mph is usually the standard


The funny thing is, I live in the US for 4 years, and I haven't seen any speed limit signs higher than 65... the fact that I travel only on the east coast may have something to do with it


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ You bet. The closest state to you with a 70 mph speed limit is West Virginia.


----------



## HAWC1506

J N Winkler said:


> AASHTO standards give designers the discretion of choosing a maximum superelevation based on icing, and this is not linked to curve radius, so a curve of given radius at a given design speed can have multiple levels of side friction demand depending on the designer's choice of maximum superelevation.


There are also many other factors that can affect side friction, including pavement type and the vehicle itself.

I haven't seen tables that list the side friction factor in relation to pavement type. My guess would be that longitudinal grinding on PCC would have lower side friction demand than horizontal grinding, and that asphalt would generally have less side friction demand than concrete.

But is it safe to assume that the effects of side friction on pavement type is minimal and therefore disregarded for general roadway design?


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ You bet. The closest state to you with a 70 mph speed limit is West Virginia.


Good to see that North and South Dakota as well as Nebraska, all have 75mph speed limit. That's where I'm going to do bulk of my driving this summer. It means I can do at least 80mph 
Is limit on rural US highways the same as on the interstates? I can't remember. 

I think many rural western counties could follow Texas example and rise limit at least to 80mph. Looking at the map above I can't see difference between counties in Texas wit 80 limit and many counties in let say Wyoming or Nevada.


----------



## pwalker

geogregor said:


> Good to see that North and South Dakota as well as Nebraska, all have 75mph speed limit. That's where I'm going to do bulk of my driving this summer. It means I can do at least 80mph
> Is limit on rural US highways the same as on the interstates? I can't remember.
> 
> I think many rural western counties could follow Texas example and rise limit at least to 80mph. Looking at the map above I can't see difference between counties in Texas wit 80 limit and many counties in let say Wyoming or Nevada.


No, rural highways are almost always 55-65 mph limit. And for good reason, with many uncontrolled intersections. The exception would be long stretches of highway in the middle of nowhere, and some states make exceptions in these cases, such as Nevada.


----------



## dl3000

geogregor said:


> Good to see that North and South Dakota as well as Nebraska, all have 75mph speed limit. That's where I'm going to do bulk of my driving this summer. It means I can do at least 80mph
> Is limit on rural US highways the same as on the interstates? I can't remember.
> 
> I think many rural western counties could follow Texas example and rise limit at least to 80mph. Looking at the map above I can't see difference between counties in Texas wit 80 limit and many counties in let say Wyoming or Nevada.


Remember this is the maximum posted, meaning only in a few places even in those states will you find 80 mph posted on a sign. That said people regularly do 80 everywhere on interstates in the west depending on the time of day but if the Dakotas appeal to you have at it. Many times my friends would accidentally reach 100 to 120 mph (160-190 km/h) on interstate 5 in central valley of california simply because people haul ass on that road and you lose track of your speed.


----------



## J N Winkler

HAWC1506 said:


> But is it safe to assume that the effects of side friction on pavement type is minimal and therefore disregarded for general roadway design?


It is--I have certainly never heard of it being taken into account in defining design standards. Most design catalogues aim to limit side friction demand to a certain maximum value which is typically encountered at the least forgiving combination of curve radius and superelevation. The maximum values I have seen are typically around 25%-35% of _g_ (gravitational acceleration) whereas, depending on tire performance, most cars will not start skidding until side friction reaches values of 65% or higher of _g_.

The problem is that, if you allow small-radius curves, the difference between the design speed and the speed at which a vehicle starts skidding will be smaller. This is our situation in the US compared to Europe.


----------



## Davodavo

edited


----------



## ChrisZwolle

J N Winkler said:


> It is--I have certainly never heard of it being taken into account in defining design standards. Most design catalogues aim to limit side friction demand to a certain maximum value which is typically encountered at the least forgiving combination of curve radius and superelevation. The maximum values I have seen are typically around 25%-35% of _g_ (gravitational acceleration) whereas, depending on tire performance, most cars will not start skidding until side friction reaches values of 65% or higher of _g_.


Is there a correlation with wet and dry pavement? I was driving in pouring rain today and I can understand cars will skid faster when it's wet, although I think this is mostly limited to interchanges (such as connectors on cloverleafs), not the mainline lanes which are usually straight.


----------



## nerdly_dood

the Virginia legislature just passed a measure increasing the state speed limit to 70. It probably has the new Governor McDonnell's approval.

...But that doesn't mean any highways will actually have their speed increased from 65...


----------



## nerdly_dood

J N Winkler said:


> It is--I have certainly never heard of it being taken into account in defining design standards. Most design catalogues aim to limit side friction demand to a certain maximum value which is typically encountered at the least forgiving combination of curve radius and superelevation. The maximum values I have seen are typically around 25%-35% of _g_ (gravitational acceleration) whereas, depending on tire performance, most cars will not start skidding until side friction reaches values of 65% or higher of _g_.
> 
> The problem is that, if you allow small-radius curves, the difference between the design speed and the speed at which a vehicle starts skidding will be smaller. This is our situation in the US compared to Europe.


There are numerous places in my city where there's a downhill road with a stoplight - in these places the pavement will become crumpled and shoved downhill and very wrinkly and bumpy with cars stopping. I've seen the paint of the stop-bar shoved as much as 6 inches downhill! (Or at least the place where the paint was... what with it being all worn off and all.)

This can even happen with pavement that's only a few years old...


----------



## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is there a correlation with wet and dry pavement? I was driving in pouring rain today and I can understand cars will skid faster when it's wet, although I think this is mostly limited to interchanges (such as connectors on cloverleafs), not the mainline lanes which are usually straight.


The maximum side friction demand is supposed to be well below the level of side friction at which a car will begin skidding in the wet. In fact, if the pavement is well drained with no standing water and no spilled oil, there will not be much difference between wet and dry in the skidding coefficients.

There are basically three mechanisms for skidding in the wet.

* Too much side friction demand (taking curves too fast, etc.)--this will get you in the dry too, though perhaps at a slightly higher speed.

* Aquaplaning (hydroplaning) on poorly drained pavement--this is why crossfall is provided on tangent lengths, and is also why rutting in asphalt pavement is so dangerous (if the ruts get deep enough, the leeward sides will have enough slope to cancel the crossfall, and won't drain; and if the ruts get even deeper, they collect water).

* Oil on top of water at the beginning of a rainstorm--the oil lubricates the tires and reduces static friction, sometimes dangerously so. This is why drivers are urged to slow down and be cautious during the first ten minutes of a heavy rainstorm.

In the UK, design standards call for a 2.5% crossfall on tangent segments and as a consequence, UK motorway pavements drain very well in rainstorms. Crossfall standards in the US vary from state to state. As an example, Kansas is semi-arid and does not get too many heavy thunderstorms, so the crossfall is normally 1.6% for the traveled way and 4% for shoulders. On the other hand, North Carolina gets very heavy and long-lasting thunderstorms in the summer, so much of its Interstate mileage has been built with a steep crossfall (I think 2.5%). States also vary in where the high point is located within the typical cross-section. On freeways in Kansas, the high point for each carriageway normally coincides with the lane stripe between the left-hand and right-hand lane. On old Interstate freeways in NC, the high point is the left edge of the traveled way.


----------



## geogregor

dl3000 said:


> Remember this is the maximum posted, meaning only in a few places even in those states will you find 80 mph posted on a sign. That said people regularly do 80 everywhere on interstates in the west depending on the time of day but if the Dakotas appeal to you have at it. Many times my friends would accidentally reach 100 to 120 mph (160-190 km/h) on interstate 5 in central valley of california simply because people haul ass on that road and you lose track of your speed.


In my opinion California is the only state where people drive as fast and dynamic as in Europe. Everywhere else I had feeling that people are very relaxed about driving (maybe except NYC). No rush, no stress, slowly.
Once I was stopped by local sheriff in rural Wyoming on the way from Utah to Yellowstone and he told me I was his fifth speeding European that day. For us such low speed limit on such great, wide highways is just an invitation to brake the law  People drive much faster on the narrow Alpine roads in Italy or in the Pyrenees.

Anyway I only got a warning as deputy didn't want to spoil my holiday. Thanks. 



pwalker said:


> No rural highways are almost always 55-65 mph limit. And for good reason, with many uncontrolled intersections. The exception would be long stretches of highway in the middle of nowhere, and some states make exceptions in these cases, such as Nevada.


Long stretches of highways in the middle of nowhere, that's where I'm going to spend most of my holiday. I like to escape crowded Europe once a year and enjoy open highways of the USA. :banana: Can't wait until June.

I love Wyoming, Utah, Idaho, Oregon and of course California (even if people drive like crazy).


----------



## Jschmuck

J N Winkler said:


> They aren't. The catalogue of available design speeds for Interstates maxes out at 70 MPH. Of course a state DOT or other highway agency can develop a compliant design which has enough "slack" to allow much higher speeds, but as a rule the driver can't count on more than 70 MPH in rural areas.
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't and they may in fact be more susceptible to jackknifing because the greater wheelbase of the tractor unit means more of a lever arm. Differential speed limits are unpopular with the trucking industry (especially owner-operators), and car drivers in general have a mixed opinion of them, so in the absence of clear evidence of their safety benefits, many states don't have them. FHWA several years ago sponsored a study to evaluate the safety implications of differential speed limits and was not able to prove that there were any benefits to having them.
> 
> This said, I have been told that a number of major trucking firms (Schneider, e.g.) voluntarily govern their tractor-trailers to speeds which are higher than the EU-wide limit of 56 MPH but still slightly below the speed limit for cars in many states--e.g., 62 MPH.


We are now governed at 60 MPH.


----------



## dl3000

geogregor said:


> In my opinion California is the only state where people drive as fast and dynamic as in Europe. Everywhere else I had feeling that people are very relaxed about driving (maybe except NYC). No rush, no stress, slowly.
> Once I was stopped by local sheriff in rural Wyoming on the way from Utah to Yellowstone and he told me I was his fifth speeding European that day. For us such low speed limit on such great, wide highways is just an invitation to brake the law  People drive much faster on the narrow Alpine roads in Italy or in the Pyrenees.
> 
> Anyway I only got a warning as deputy didn't want to spoil my holiday. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Long stretches of highways in the middle of nowhere, that's where I'm going to spend most of my holiday. I like to escape crowded Europe once a year and enjoy open highways of the USA. :banana: Can't wait until June.
> 
> I love Wyoming, Utah, Idaho, Oregon and of course California (even if people drive like crazy).


That is an interesting story. I do find that those from other states drive slower, and I have seen many in San Diego (beyond the ubiquitous Arizona plate). It also depends on the time of day as to how "crazy" people are driving. I favor the morning rush hour crowd because everybody tends to go to work within a 2 hour period and they all have a sense of urgency but with skill and the rest of the day is either too leisurely or full of crazy people speeding homeward. At least thats urban. I have gone pretty fast on rural roads outside of California, but I do see your point on the more leisurely pace taken in other states.


----------



## Gaeus

*Why 70 Miles Per Hour Is the New 55 *

*Virginia Becomes the Latest State to Raise Its Speed Limit; Drivers in Mississippi Go Really Fast* 

*By JOSEPH B. WHITE*​ 
Left to their own devices, American drivers confronted with an open stretch of interstate highway tend to drive at about 70 miles per hour—whatever the legal speed limit happens to be.

Virginia is the 34th state to raise its rural interstate speed limit to 70. WSJ's Joseph B. White says improved car safety was one reason behind the move, but skeptics worry the increase will lead to more fatalities and greater energy use.

That's the finding of an analysis of speed data gathered by TomTom Inc., a marketer of GPS navigation devices. This helps to explain why safety advocates and conservationists are losing the long-running debate over lowering freeway speed limits.

The Virginia legislature last week passed legislation raising the speed limit on rural interstate highways to 70 mph from 65 mph. The state's new Republican governor, Bob McDonnell, put boosting the legal speed limit high on his list of priorities, and got action less than three months after taking office.

Virginia will become the 34th state to boost interstate speed limits to 70 mph or higher. In big, empty states such as New Mexico, Idaho and Nevada, posted limits on rural interstates can be as high as 75 mph. 

TomTom collected speed data from 45 states and the District of Columbia, under agreements with customers who agreed to allow the company to collect the information anonymously to improve the quality of its route guidance by directing customers away from congested roads at peak travel times.










 

The TomTom data suggest that most drivers tend to stay within a few miles per hour of the speed limit on major roads.
In 31 out of the 46 jurisdictions, average freeway speeds ranged between 65 and 70.1 mph.​ 
TomTom found the fastest drivers, on average, in Mississippi, where interstate drivers average 70.1 mph, or a hair over the maximum posted limit. The company doesn't have speed data from some sparsely populated states, including Montana, where drivers may be moving faster than those in Mississippi, says Nhai Cao, senior product manager for TomTom's SpeedProfiles database.

Virginia drivers clock in at a law-abiding 65 mph. The slowest drivers—drumroll, please—are in Washington, D.C. Freeway traffic in the nation's congested capital crawls at an average of 46.4 mph, according to TomTom's data. That may explain the eagerness of Virginia residents who work inside the Beltway for the freedom to go faster when they finally see some open road. 

Hawaii is the slowest state, with highway drivers traveling at an average 52.7 mph.

Speed limits and enforcement have taken a symbolic significance that transcends vehicle mechanics or highway design. 

The 55 mph national speed limit enacted in 1973 in response to the first Arab oil embargo was justified as a means of conserving fuel. In 1987, the law was changed to allow speeds up to 65 mph. But the Republican Congress elected in 1994 did few things more popular than repealing the limit altogether in 1995.

Driving speed has become a proxy for bigger questions about personal freedom versus government control. 

The argument for raising speed limits is fundamentally an argument for letting drivers use their own judgment. The argument for stronger speed control is that too many people behave badly behind the wheel.

Insurers and other safety advocates, including groups such as the Governors Highway Safety Association, have consistently called for motorists to slow down, and for state and local authorities to get tougher on speeding enforcement. 

"Higher speeds are bad on any road," says Anne McCartt, vice president of research for the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety, a research arm of the insurance industry. 

The Federal Highway Administration estimates that in 2008, about 31% of the total 37,261 highway fatalities were related to speeding over posted limits.

But advocates of relaxing speed limits point to federal statistics which show that both fatalities and fatality rates on U.S. highways are declining even as speed limits rise. 

The U.S. Department of Transportation last week reported that its latest estimate of highway deaths in 2009 is 33,963—the lowest number since the government began keeping these grim records in 1954. The fatality rate is estimated at 1.16 deaths per 100 million vehicle miles traveled.

Modern cars and light trucks have an average of 225 horsepower under the hood and sophisticated safety systems such as traction control. They are designed to cruise comfortably, safely and efficiently at between 65 and 70 mph—if not faster, particularly in the case of the autobahn-burners German luxury brands sell.

If gas prices spike again this summer, as some predict, the idea of dropping speed limits again may get a new hearing. But Virginia's decision and the powerful cars consumers are buying suggest otherwise.

_*Write to * Joseph B. White at [email protected]

_*Source*​


----------



## Stuck in Bama

*Alabama transportation officials to close section of I-65 north in Morgan County Thursday*
By Ginny MacDonald -- The Birmingham News 
March 17, 2010, 2:51PM

Alabama transportation officials will close a section of Interstate 65 north in Morgan County at milemarker 329 between Hartselle and Priceville Thursday for crews to repair a sinkhole.

Northbound traffic will be directed off I-65 north at exit 318 at Lacon onto U.S. 31, then north to Alabama 67 and back onto I-65 at exit 334 at Priceville. 

Oversized loads traveling north will get off the interstate at exit 310 to Alabama 157, onto Alabama 24 to Moulton, and then to Alabama 20 and back to I-65 at exit 340 at the I-65/I-565 interchange. 

ALDOT engineers will conduct repairs as quickly as possible, officials say.

Motorists are requested to consider using alternate routes, adjust arrival/departure times, slow down, observe signs and message boards, and use extreme caution in this area.


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## GOUST

As far as I can:

In Poland, on the road in force 50 km / h
In Poland, on the roads outside the city in force 90 km / h
As a two-band and 100 km / h
Highway is 130 km / h.

But the application of the law is on our others. driving at speeds not catch you unless they really masters the bores.

In Poland, on the road in force 80 km / h
In Poland, on the roads outside the city spaces of 110 km / h
As a two-band and 130 km / h
Highway is 160 km / h.


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## geogregor

^^
???????


----------



## ttownfeen

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/03/alabama_lowering_speeds_on_int.html


*Alabama lowering speeds on Interstate 20 near Georgia after rock from pothole fatally injures traveler*
By The Birmingham News
March 18, 2010, 12:35PM

Alabama Transportation officials are lowering the speed limit on Interstate 20 from Oxford to the Georgia state line following a fatal accident Monday, the Anniston Star reports.

The speed limit will drop from 70 mph to 55 mph from mile marker 182 to the state line. Extra troopers will patrol the stretch, according to the newspaper. Jo Maureen Fisher of Goose Creek, S.C., died in a Birmingham hospital Tuesday, hours after a vehicle hit a pothole and threw a rock that passed through the windshield of the car Fisher was in and struck her in the head.


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## Snowguy716

That's a sad story. Yet another example of our crumbling infrastructure not being looked after properly. 

This is the best way to remedy the situation, though. Lower the speed limits to a safe speed and heavily patrol it. Only then will people be willing to fork over the money necessary to keep our infrastructure up. (I don't mean to politicize her death, but this very political issue is becoming life or death!)


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## Snowguy716

People drive them here to haul stuff around. Most people have a truck and a car/van/SUV. I live in a rural area though where people use their trucks for stuff... not just to be big and manly and cool like most trucks in various places across the U.S.


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## LosAngelesMetroBoy

i dont know how people can own their own buisness or own home without a truck these days. I can haul tile, drywall and anything else i can in my truckbed. Yes they are not always the best on fuel, but there are some things you can do in them, or ask for a manual transmission instead of auto.

Its also an american thing, but i normally just take public transportation if i dont need to haul stuff. my truck is mainly for hauling goods back and forth from my suppliers


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## lowes48

J N Winkler said:


> I am sorry, that text misses the point. It is not commonly argued that Interstates were meant to be fast roads to scenic locations. What actually happened is that the original plan to have a complete system by a defined deadline created a frantic production environment in the state highway agencies which was very unfriendly to detailed optimization of alignment.
> 
> If this optimization had been allowed to happen, the Interstate driving experience would have been greatly improved from the standpoints both of aesthetic and safety, and probably also in terms of travel distance and travel time between defined points on the system, though the capital costs would likely have been somewhat higher.


How exactly does that miss the point?


----------



## Fargo Wolf

If you're not using it for work, then it's little more than a "Status Symbol" to the owner. At least that's my take on it anyway.


----------



## just_a_guy

I also believe it has to do with "american culture". I used to live in the US and more than half of all the cars that were parked on my block were pick ups (including my dad's truck as well) and I can assure you that only 20% of everyone that had one there really needed it. The average american likes big things and pick up trucks are usually bigger than cars. Then the other really popular vehicle in the US is a large SUV and it's probably for the same reason.

At least that was my experience.


----------



## nerdly_dood

My part of the country has proportionally more sedans than other areas, so it's less of a frightening thing to drive around here in a little dinky car like a Ford Escort. The majority of vehicles are sedans, but there are definitely a lot of pickups and SUVs - surely less than in other countries, but more than other parts of the USA.

I do agree that most people who have SUVs or pickups THINK they need them but don't really, and would do just fine with a sedan. Plenty of pickups have a cover over the bed that's painted body-color, and i figure it's just meant to give them a really gigantic trunk... but if they want a gigantic trunk why not get a sedan with a gigantic trunk? (That's a Mercury Grand Marquis, a gigantic car built on the same platform, and with a similar design, as the Crown Victoria police car, but more consumer-friendly.) A small minority may get one cheap because it's just an older model that caught their eye when they were looking to buy a vehicle, and another larger minority uses them for work purposes - my dad, a landscaper, falls into this last category. IMO a pickup truck should only be used as a work truck unless it's got 4 full-size seats, in which case it may also be used as an SUV with an open-air cargo area.

The majority of work trucks have one of two rear attachments.
One: A ladder rack









Two: A box of boxes, with or without a ladder rack, and with space in between the boxes of boxes for whatever equipment doesn't fit in a box.









Another pickup attachment commonly seen in my city is a set of railroad wheels, since my city wouldn't be nearly as big as it is had there not been a railyard built here in the late 1800s.


----------



## just_a_guy

HAWC1506 said:


> This wouldn't have happen with a concrete barrier


But with concrete barriers there is a posibility that a car can bounce back into the traffic possibly hitting other cars. Metal guardrails on the other hand absorb some of the shock or something like that so when a vehicle hits it it stays on the guardrail. Of coarse, that particular gaurdrail seemed weak becuase that shouldn't happen.

Or you can use these concrete barriers. They aren't fixed to the ground so cars won't rebound when they hit the barrier. Though you'd need a wider median than the one pictured here becuase thy end up bieng shifted towards the oposite side when they get crashed. With a shoulder this small the barrier can hit oncoming traffic when they get hit on the oposite side.

These are extremely common in Mexico unfortunatly most of them have these really small left shoulders.


----------



## RawLee

My boss drives a Mercedes,and hauls his stuff with a vehicle like this:


----------



## Basincreek

I live in the woods so almost everyone I know drives a truck and we use the hell out of them. You should see how torn up the beds can get when you've been hauling heavy stuff around in them day after day for several years.


----------



## Aan

I'd say you can't compare USA to Thailand, almost every car in Thailand is pickup (and majority is Toyota), never seen so many pickups anywhere and it must be impossible also in USA to see more of them

I was thinking about it, in warm climate it's very handy car, you can carry big load and also in rear part you can transport many people


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## CptSchmidt

Huge energy inefficient trucks are the reason for the failure of American auto makers. If Ford America acted like Ford Europe, it could be the number one car manufacturer in the world. 

Many people don't realise what you can do with a wagon. If you fold the seats down in a wagon, you've got plenty of room. Station wagons are more practical than trucks in every day situations. 

If somebody isn't in the construction business and they own a huge truck, all that indicates to me is that they enjoy throwing money in the trash. Station wagons are the most practical vehicle one can own. 

Volvos, Subarus, Focus Wagon, Jetta and Golf Wagon - even Saturn used to make station wagons. They're all great cars. The VW and Ford wagon variants are the most economical and affordable. Why people buy giant trucks has always baffled me.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The major disadvantage of pick-up trucks is their city fuel efficiency. Out on the highway, they're not that bad, I mean the Ford F-150 gets 20 mpg on the highway and that's a pretty brutal vehicle. There are enough station wagons on gasoline that get between 25 and 30 mpg, for example the VW Passat wagon gets 29 mpg on the highway.

I know there are also gasoline cars that get over 40 mpg, but I think it's a bit nonsense to compare a heavy duty vehicle with a tin can. On the other hand, my dad drives a Renault Espace 2.0 L on LPG. He gets about 15 mpg.


----------



## snowman159

CptSchmidt said:


> ... all that indicates to me is that they enjoy throwing money in the trash. Station wagons are the most practical vehicle one can own.


I once heard a car expert say that if you buy anything other than a Camry or Accord, it's an emotional decision based on various things, but certainly not practicality. (yes, obviously that's a gross generalization, let's not argue about that)

Who cares if they don't really need a truck or what their motives are, if they can afford it? We all spend money on stuff we don't really need to survive, but everyone has different priorities and preferences. Nothing wrong with that.


----------



## nerdly_dood

CptSchmidt said:


> Volvos, Subarus, Focus Wagon, Jetta and Golf Wagon - even Saturn used to make station wagons. They're all great cars. The VW and Ford wagon variants are the most economical and affordable. Why people buy giant trucks has always baffled me.


I really do want a station wagon. I don't have any use for a big truck, and i might want a 4x4 SUV though, but for typical urban use (I'll be going to college in the Washington DC area) a station wagon is just fine.

I'd most prefer a Ford, but since the Focus wagon only lasted a few years in the US I guess I'd have to get a used Taurus-X crossover... I could use any Ford sedan if i can't get a wagon, and as far as size goes... the bigger the better. Yes that includes the Crown Victoria. I oughta be ashamed of myself...


----------



## DanielFigFoz

^^ You also love Crown Vic's? I really wish I could have one, or see one, but i'm European.


----------



## Muddypaws

Most Americans with oversized, fuel guzzling behemoths rarely use them for working purposes, hauling materials, furniture, OR PEOPLE!. They are merely an extension of their over inflated egos and their self centered lifestyles. Rarely will you find anyone with one of these monstrocities helping others, family, freinds, whoever. They are mostly for showing off and waisting fuel. The only trucks you see being used for the purpose they were built for are the old 'beaters' as we call them around here. The fancy new, oversized trucks whose owners would never let you ride in them, they just want to run you off the road if you get in their way, and are driven by queens who have yet to come out of their closits! Big trucks, little pee wees! HA!


----------



## Xusein

Trucks have relatively poor resale value...they're generally cheap after a couple of years.


----------



## verum

*Speed Limits*

I know that the design speeds of some of the urban Interstates are super-low, and for the amount of traffic they handle a lack of a speed cap (Autobahn-like) would be a disaster. But for some of the rural interstates, especially out in the desert, even a speed limit of 120 (75 mph) seems unreasonable. In my opinion, the speed limits could be safely removed along some stretches of the Interstate system. Take the stretch of the 8 from El Centro to Yuma, for example. The highest speed limit along it, on the Californian side at least, is 110 (70 mph)!

Look at this picture: straight, flat, wide, and well-paved. A real American Autobahn, all that they need to do is knock down the speed limit signs.









That stretch of the 8 I mentioned:


----------



## HAWC1506

A look at outdated infrastructure in Seattle. Parts of that highway has been fixed, but the overall condition remains pretty much the same. The first few seconds on the video say it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrfa2X5AD8M&feature=related


----------



## verum

HAWC1506 said:


> A look at outdated infrastructure in Seattle. Parts of that highway has been fixed, but the overall condition remains pretty much the same. The first few seconds on the video say it all.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrfa2X5AD8M&feature=related


Looks just like a section of Friars Rd. (some sections expressway, not Interstate) here in San Diego. It's disdainful. Where is the money from the gas tax going?


----------



## pwalker

HAWC1506 said:


> A look at outdated infrastructure in Seattle. Parts of that highway has been fixed, but the overall condition remains pretty much the same. The first few seconds on the video say it all.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrfa2X5AD8M&feature=related


That's a cool video, but unusual in that there was so little traffic. Most times this stretch would be jammed and slow. Also note how I-5 northbound basically narrows to two lanes at one point near downtown. A major reason for the slowdowns.

Yeah, and those cracks at the beginning of the vid are nasty!


----------



## dl3000

verum said:


> Looks just like a section of Friars Rd. (some sections expressway, not Interstate) here in San Diego. It's disdainful. Where is the money from the gas tax going?


In some cases, transit. 

And agreed on metric!


----------



## diz

Portland, OR

HW 26 West









beyond the tunnel is Tualatin Valley, purely flat until the Cascade Range by the coast.









Freemont Bridge, (I-405)


----------



## Nexis

I must say Portland is a very nice city , i want to drive on there freeways & take trimet one day.


----------



## HAWC1506

pwalker said:


> That's a cool video, but unusual in that there was so little traffic. Most times this stretch would be jammed and slow. Also note how I-5 northbound basically narrows to two lanes at one point near downtown. A major reason for the slowdowns.
> 
> Yeah, and those cracks at the beginning of the vid are nasty!


I'm not sure if that happens on Northbound, but I do know that it happens on the Southbound stretch, near the convention center.

To give non-Seattlelites some context, someone in the city decided that it would be a good idea to build a convention center _on top _of I-5, basically making it impossible to expand the highway.

Someone else decided that it would be a good idea to design _three _(3) exit only lanes right below the convention center. In essence, you have 5GP+HOV turning into 2GP+HOV within about two kilometers (metric FTW!)


----------



## FM 2258

verum said:


> I know that the design speeds of some of the urban Interstates are super-low, and for the amount of traffic they handle a lack of a speed cap (Autobahn-like) would be a disaster. But for some of the rural interstates, especially out in the desert, even a speed limit of 120 (75 mph) seems unreasonable. In my opinion, the speed limits could be safely removed along some stretches of the Interstate system. Take the stretch of the 8 from El Centro to Yuma, for example. The highest speed limit along it, on the Californian side at least, is 110 (70 mph)!
> 
> Look at this picture: straight, flat, wide, and well-paved. A real American Autobahn, all that they need to do is knock down the speed limit signs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That stretch of the 8 I mentioned:



Yeah, looks like no speed limit needed there. 80 or 85 would be better but ****, like you said, eliminating the speed limit there would be fine.


----------



## nerdly_dood

verum said:


> I know that the design speeds of some of the urban Interstates are super-low, and for the amount of traffic they handle a lack of a speed cap (Autobahn-like) would be a disaster. But for some of the rural interstates, especially out in the desert, even a speed limit of 120 (75 mph) seems unreasonable. In my opinion, the speed limits could be safely removed along some stretches of the Interstate system. Take the stretch of the 8 from El Centro to Yuma, for example. The highest speed limit along it, on the Californian side at least, is 110 (70 mph)!
> 
> Look at this picture: straight, flat, wide, and well-paved. A real American Autobahn, all that they need to do is knock down the speed limit signs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That stretch of the 8 I mentioned:


That looks SO MUCH like the highways I saw in Spain. Well-paved for one thing, and also it gives easy access to the surrounding desert and not much else; there were a crapload of Spanish offramps that just went off into a dirt road to nowhere, and quite a few where an offramp went directly into a parking lot at a gas station or truck stop, and from the other end of the parking lot it just became another on-ramp.


----------



## nerdly_dood

Aan said:


> I'd say you can't compare USA to Thailand, almost every car in Thailand is pickup (and majority is Toyota), never seen so many pickups anywhere and it must be impossible also in USA to see more of them
> 
> I was thinking about it, in warm climate it's very handy car, you can carry big load and also in rear part you can transport many people


No American in their right mind would carry more than one or two people in the back of a pickup truck. It's amazingly dangerous, and most of us know it. :bash:


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

^^Thats what you think, I've seen a whole bed full of ******** or hispanic workers. Wagons are pretty cool and useful but unfortunately there are few decent wagons being sold in the US.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> and quite a few where an offramp went directly into a parking lot at a gas station or truck stop, and from the other end of the parking lot it just became another on-ramp.


Please don't tell me you were surprised by that... service stations directly on the freeway is a common thing in most European countries. 

I have to agree to those Spanish exits going to nowhere, they look like Frontage Roads like you have in Texas. Only serving the local hillbilly farmer.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

They have the same thing in the US.


----------



## mattec

Actually, in a lot of areas, riding in the beds of trucks are illegal, either by a specific law or by an extension of a seatbelt law.


EDIT: 

PS- I hate Station wagons, I refuse to drive them


----------



## Aan

nerdly_dood said:


> No American in their right mind would carry more than one or two people in the back of a pickup truck. It's amazingly dangerous, and most of us know it. :bash:


it's reasonably dangerous for short distances, of course not transportation for highways

it's prohibited almost everywhere in world, but I was writing about Thailand/Asia where are laws not so strict about these things

about seatbelt law - you must use where you have it, in pickup in back when it's not there you don't need to use it


----------



## Stuck in Bama

*I-20/59 Just east of downtown Birmingham. This section was completed in the early 1970's*








*12th Ave overpass*
























*Heading back Southwest. 31st St Exit*
















*Red Mountain Expressway/Convention Complex exit*








































*I-65*
















*Center St. Overpass*








*US 78/AL 5/Arkadephia Rd Overpass*








*Sinkholes are common along the shoulders on this section of interstate. Temporary lanes had to be constructed and used because of skinholes between 1972-1977 while at grade bridges were built.*








*Button copy signage*








*Ensley-Five Points West Ave overpass.*








*Valley Rd overpass. This marked the end of the freeway until 1971.*


----------



## verum

Does any justification exist to the painfully low speed limits or is the gov't just trying to rake in as much money from fines as they can?


----------



## nerdly_dood

I-275westcoastfl said:


> They have the same thing in the US.


Never in Virginia. Offramps only go to roads that actually go somewhere, never to a parking lot or a dirt road to nowhere. If someone wants to build a gas station near the highway they'll have to put it on a road near a highway access point. (Often with a 150-foot-high signpost.)


----------



## Nexis

Stuck in Bama said:


> *I-20/59 Just east of downtown Birmingham. This section was completed in the early 1970's*


Your highway reminds me of the QEW for some reason....


----------



## xzmattzx

verum said:


> Does any justification exist to the painfully low speed limits or is the gov't just trying to rake in as much money from fines as they can?


The Federal speed limit was 55 mph since the 1970s because it was meant to save gas (implemented by Jimmy Carter during the gasoline rationing). It was kept around because slower speeds are safer (which is true, but 45 mph is even safer, 25 mph is safer than that, 10 mph is safer than that, etc). States have been increasing speed limits where research has shown that there is not much of a decrease in safety when speeds are increased. Plus, people drive over 55 mph anyway, and research shows that people will usually do about 75 mph even if you don't give them a speed limit, so increasing the speed limit picks up the pace in the slower people and creates a more continuous flow of traffic.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

verum said:


> Does any justification exist to the painfully low speed limits or is the gov't just trying to rake in as much money from fines as they can?


A little of both, low speed limits=speed traps since as mentioned everybody goes faster anyways.


----------



## HAWC1506

^^Not to mention, many modern cars are designed to run most efficiently at 70-80 miles an hour. German especially.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

HAWC1506 said:


> ^^Not to mention, many modern cars are designed to run most efficiently at 70-80 miles an hour. German especially.


It's more like 60-70 after that your gas mileage declines but common sense would have it that except maybe at highly congested areas the speed limit should be at least 60mph or about 100km/h as that is reasonable and efficient highway speed.


----------



## HAWC1506

I-275westcoastfl said:


> It's more like 60-70 after that your gas mileage declines but common sense would have it that except maybe at highly congested areas the speed limit should be at least 60mph or about 100km/h as that is reasonable and efficient highway speed.


I guess different cars have different transmission setups. I can imagine that 8-speed transmissions on some BMWs can run extremely efficiently at 80 mph. My car has a CVT and it gets about the roughly the same mileage between 65 and 75.

Wish I had a diesel engine though.


----------



## Penn's Woods

xzmattzx said:


> The Federal speed limit was 55 mph since the 1970s because it was meant to save gas (implemented by Jimmy Carter during the gasoline rationing). It was kept around because slower speeds are safer (which is true, but 45 mph is even safer, 25 mph is safer than that, 10 mph is safer than that, etc). States have been increasing speed limits where research has shown that there is not much of a decrease in safety when speeds are increased. Plus, people drive over 55 mph anyway, and research shows that people will usually do about 75 mph even if you don't give them a speed limit, so increasing the speed limit picks up the pace in the slower people and creates a more continuous flow of traffic.


You sure it wasn't Nixon or Ford, rather than Carter? My memory (I was a child at the time) is that the embargo and rationing were in 1973, and I thought that the national speed limit (which I agree was absurd) started about then.
PS and off topic - how 'bout that new batting order!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

imo it would be better if individual states harmonized speed limits, like a fixed 60 mph in urban areas, and 75 or 80 mph in rural areas. Now every single stretch of freeway can have a different speed limit. Deviation from these limits should only be done by exception (for example on antiquated urban freeways, or semi-rural areas).


----------



## J N Winkler

xzmattzx said:


> The Federal speed limit was 55 mph since the 1970s because it was meant to save gas (implemented by Jimmy Carter during the gasoline rationing).


The NMSL was indeed introduced to save gasoline, but that was during the oil crisis of 1973, when Nixon was still President (he did not resign until August 1974). So you have Tricky Dick to blame for the double-nickel speed limit, although his successors of both parties had a role in keeping it in place until the option to raise limits to 65 MPH was created in 1987 and the NMSL was abolished altogether in 1995 (by the Republican Congress during Clinton's first term).


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

HAWC1506 said:


> I guess different cars have different transmission setups. I can imagine that 8-speed transmissions on some BMWs can run extremely efficiently at 80 mph. My car has a CVT and it gets about the roughly the same mileage between 65 and 75.
> 
> Wish I had a diesel engine though.


True I hate my transmission typical cheap ass 4 speed for American cars built at the time. I can achieve about 29-32mpg+ easily between 60-65 but around 75 I'm at maybe 25-27mpg. I agree I wish I had a diesel but I just can't buy a VW TDI with all the issues those cars have because they are cheaply built in Mexico.


----------



## Rail Claimore

Penn's Woods said:


> You sure it wasn't Nixon or Ford, rather than Carter? My memory (I was a child at the time) is that the embargo and rationing were in 1973, and I thought that the national speed limit (which I agree was absurd) started about then.
> PS and off topic - how 'bout that new batting order!


It was started under Nixon. Carter tends to get the blame because he was the "era of limits" president.


----------



## SaRaJeVo-City

i think NYC has some of the worst inner-city highways in the world.. Once you get off the JFK road, and hit the highway towards manhattan and queens, there are literally 1 foot deep potholes...the other day I almost lost my front wheele when hitting a cluster of these potholes after leaving the JFK airport. And its not only one or two per like 2 miles...its literally like 4 dozen potholes, and uneven roads for miles. 

Also the city roads are terrible, these insurance companies take so much money and taxes are paid but nothing chances. I can look outside my window and count like 40 potholes, and not to talk about the uneven roads. You drive and then all of a sudden a huge lump appears, the roads are terribly uneven. 

The avenue next to mine was reconstructed the other day, 3 months to be exact and they still haven't marked and divided the road. Overall based on the NYC experience and highways I can say that NYC has some of the worst roads in the world. You would expect it to be perfect but its terrible. I lived and went to many places in Europe and they all have better roads then NYC.


----------



## HAWC1506

SaRaJeVo-City said:


> i think NYC has some of the worst inner-city highways in the world.. Once you get off the JFK road, and hit the highway towards manhattan and queens, there are literally 1 foot deep potholes...the other day I almost lost my front wheele when hitting a cluster of these potholes after leaving the JFK airport. And its not only one or two per like 2 miles...its literally like 4 dozen potholes, and uneven roads for miles.
> 
> Also the city roads are terrible, these insurance companies take so much money and taxes are paid but nothing chances. I can look outside my window and count like 40 potholes, and not to talk about the uneven roads. You drive and then all of a sudden a huge lump appears, the roads are terribly uneven.
> 
> The avenue next to mine was reconstructed the other day, 3 months to be exact and they still haven't marked and divided the road. Overall based on the NYC experience and highways I can say that NYC has some of the worst roads in the world. You would expect it to be perfect but its terrible. I lived and went to many places in Europe and they all have better roads then NYC.


Is it safe to assume that the roads on the east coast are worse than usual due to their hell of a winter this year?


----------



## Nexis

HAWC1506 said:


> Is it safe to assume that the roads on the east coast are worse than usual due to their hell of a winter this year?


There worse this year , then this time last year & the bulk of it has to do with the winter weather.


----------



## xzmattzx

Pictures from last week of the construction of the future I-99. These pictures are from the section from Williamsport, Pennsylvania, to Painted Post, New York.


NORTHBOUND

The most recent section of the future I-99 expressway is complete. This section is between Trout Run and Steam Valley, in Lycoming County, Pennsylvania.










Scenery from U.S. Route 15, along much older sections of expressway.



















The expressway used to end here when travelling northbound, at the intersection with Pennsylvania Route 287 north of Tioga. The section in the background was opened sometime in late 2008 or early 2009.










The expressway now continues into New York, with completion of the section mentioned above.










Construction of the last section is underway. Currently, traffic exits onto surface streets at Watson Creek Road, south of Lindley, New York.










Working on the new section.










The Town of Lindley, with the last section of the expressway being built on the hillside.










This stretch of the current U.S. Route 15, at the bottom of a steep and rocky hillside, will be bypassed in a couple years.










SOUTHBOUND

The expressway from Painted Post south towards Pennsylvania has always turned into a surface street near Presho, a hamlet in the Town of Lindley, since I was a kid in the 1980s. The surface street now turns back into an expressway at the Green Shingles Inn, at Watson Creek Road in Lindley.










Driving on the new portion of the expressway in between Steam Valley and Trout Run. Last year, this section that the picture was taken from was under construction, and traffic in both directions used the northbound side (one lane for each direction).










A view between the mountains from the new section of expressway.


----------



## Nexis

Can anyone tell me why there building I-99 , it seems like an utter waste. as opposed to a 2+1 highway. And they should make a toll highway, because PA can't keep building these highways without a way to pay for them.hno:


----------



## Xusein

^^ Yeah, and it totally destroys the whole sequence. I-99 should be hugging the Atlantic, not in the middle of PA. :laugh:



HAWC1506 said:


> Is it safe to assume that the roads on the east coast are worse than usual due to their hell of a winter this year?


Well, that and the fact that New York has some of the oldest highways in the nation. All grandfathered into the system. 

I remember reading once that all of the Interstates in NYC's city limits are below interstate standard except for I-295 in Queens...


----------



## Xusein

Oh, and Route 15 is a pretty good ride in the areas where it has been improved. 

I went down it once when going from Buffalo to DC in 2008. Too bad that they are never planning to turn the part between Williamsport and Harrisburg into a highway AFAIK...although I think it would cost too much and might ruin the nice scenery on it next to the Susquehanna River. 

And it could have connected to I-83 in Harrisburg. If that happened, then they just extend I-83 further north into New York so it could take over I-390 so Upstate New York could finally have a direct one Interstate connection to DC-Baltimore! Maybe one day.


----------



## treichard

Nexis said:


> Can anyone tell me why there building I-99 , it seems like an utter waste. as opposed to a 2+1 highway. And they should make a toll highway, because PA can't keep building these highways without a way to pay for them.hno:


Some common reasons cited for building I-99:
- I-99 bypasses the two-lane former US 220, which had a high accident rate when it was the main route from Bedford to State College. The conflict between regional and local traffic was significant and triggered accidents. I-99 was built here both as a relief route and a needed safety improvement.

- I-99 bypasses PA 26 north of State College to I-80, which was operating beyond its capacity and needed relief. State College is a growing college town and there is a notable need for a high-capacity connection to I-80. 

- High accident rates are also cited in the freeway gap of US 220 between Williamsport and Jersey Shore. Freeway alternatives have been studied here in the past decade, but there is no funding to design or build them. Some safety improvements have been made to the deadlier intersections instead.

- North of Williamsport, there is no other four-lane highway suitable for heavy truck traffic without going as far east as I-81 or as far west as I-79. Using those highways to safely and quickly travel to destinations that I-99 will serve is a long detour. I-99 filled in a wide void in the freeway system. 

Some think I-99 was a poor numbering choice because it fits between I-79 and I-81 and breaks the sequence. It can be argued that the poor numbering choices were due to the lack of foresight in the 1950s that missed that a multi-state north-south freeway would be needed between I-79 and I-81. In fact, three north-south corridors have been studied over the recent decades as possible Interstate highways (US 219, US 220, and US 15/US 111), yet only one number (I-83) had been left to fill in the gap. All three of these corridors are longer than the intended length of 3-digit Interstates.

US 15 between Williamsport and Harrisburg was studied for a possible freeway upgrade that might later have been called I-83. Parts of the corridor were built as freeways (I-180 around Muncy, White Deer Bypass near I-80, Selinsgrove Bypass near US 522, Dauphin bypass near Dauphin). Another part needs to be bypassed by a freeway (Shamokin Dam-Northumberland bypass) but the project currently sits waiting for funding to begin construction, just as it did in the 1970s when funding dried up just after the Selinsgrove bypass was built. Other parts were found to be better served by a lesser four-lane highway because of the great expense and local access problems that a freeway would entail for the terrain along the Susquehanna River. The existing three-lane route from Selinsgrove to US 22/US 322 had inadequate capacity but wasn't upgradable without severing local traffic access. An inland new alignment was too expensive. This is why US 11/US 15 was rebuilt as a compromise: it has four lanes, is mostly divided with partial access control via jughandles, but has zero traffic lights and a 55 mph speed limit. It flows like a four-lane freeway while allowing the small amount of cross traffic (mainly to/from the west) to enter/exit at a relatively small number of intersections.


----------



## xzmattzx

I-99 was given its number by Federal law under its pet project creator, Bud Shuster, who represented the area. It is not allowed to have any other number, regardless of where it fits in the numbering system. It's pretty egotistical, but oh well.

Some sort of semi-limited access highway, like the continuation of U.S. Route 15 from Williamsport south towards Harrisburg (I-99 north of Williamsport is also Route 15), probably could've worked. the stretches of road that were divided but more winding worked well when I used them. But, I'll still welcome the improvements.


----------



## xzmattzx

By the way, Route 15 between Selinsgrove and Duncannon was upgraded to semi-limited access about 10 years ago. I think it's safe to say that an expressway won't be built along this particular route more a long time.

U.S. 322 near Dauphin and Fishing Creek was upgraded even more recently, maybe 6 or 7 years ago. Some of it was two-lane roads before upgrading. Much of the divided highway on that stretch has been around since the 1980s, when I first remember riding on it.

I wonder if the expressway that ends in a farm field at Selinsgrove will ever get built. According to Wikipedia, it is supposed to be a bypass around Shamokin Dam, Selinsgrove, Lewisburg, and that "mini-metro". A new expressway section would connect with the current route at Winfield (people familiar with this highway or area will know it as the only traffic light for a few miles in each direction, disrupting your progress, and also where there's the strange merge-from-the-left-after-getting-a-green-light for cars heading north on Route 15 from Route 304).

But, back to I-99...


----------



## HAWC1506

Whoohoo! It's almost here! It's quite funny that our signs are being built in Croatia.



















*New freeway signs will razzle, dazzle, and save you time*

_SEATTLE -- Drivers are about to get an eye-full driving up Interstate 5 in Seattle as $20 million in new electronic signs will start going up this weekend.

They razzle and dazzle and are supposed to save you time.

"It's patterned after European experience they refer to as 'active traffic management,' " said Ten Trepanier with the Department of Transportation.

Signs on northbound I-5 starting at the Boeing Access Road will guide drivers into downtown.

"With these signs, we can let people know when there is lane closures more effectively," said Patty Rubstello with DOT. "(And) which lane is actually closed, which lane they need to merge into."

The signs are 7 feet tall and when the project is complete, there will be nearly 100 of them.

The signs are made by a company from Croatia and the type of technology is already used all over Europe.

The project is costing $20 million, but it's paid for with federal dollars to ease congestion when the Alaskan Way Viaduct is eventually torn down.

"We are expecting about 6,000 more trips a day using I-5 and we think these signs will help," Rubstello said.

But to install the signs, I-5 will have to be shut down at times over the next 3 weekends.

The first closure comes Friday night from 11 p.m. to 6 a.m. Then Saturday night from 11 p.m. to 8 a.m. Sunday morning. When the system goes online, drivers will get updates every half mile.

But is that too much information for drivers at freeway speed? The DOT says no.

"Very easily understood messages, Trepanier said. "Speed limit, or merge, and 'X' for a lane closure."

They hope getting your attention will get you through faster.

The same sign system will be installed on I-90 and SR-520 by the end of next year._


----------



## Nexis

^^

You mean to tell me , we don't even have a US Company that can make them.....hno:


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## HAWC1506

Nexis said:


> You mean to tell me , we don't even have a US Company that can make them.....hno:


Apparently not. It's the first time this system is even being implemented in the U.S., so I'm not surprised that we don't have the expertise.

The same can be said for any sort of rail technology that was developed after the 1950s. Seattle had to purchase their light rail vehicles from Japan, Portland got theirs from Germany, Tacoma got their streetcar from the Czech Republic, and so on...

Our fastest train, the Acela, was built by a Canadian company (Bombardier) borrowing French technology.


----------



## Nexis

HAWC1506 said:


> Apparently not. It's the first time this system is even being implemented in the U.S., so I'm not surprised that we don't have the expertise.
> 
> The same can be said for any sort of rail technology that was developed after the 1950s. Seattle had to purchase their light rail vehicles from Japan, Portland got theirs from Germany, Tacoma got their streetcar from the Czech Republic, and so on...
> 
> Our fastest train, the Acela, was built by a Canadian company (Bombardier) borrowing French technology.


Canadian / New England plants made the Acela


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## ChrisZwolle

The Netherlands was the first country in the world to implement active traffic management that runs automated as opposed to some VMS's that are changed from a control center which were earlier (for example New Jersey Turnpike).

The first MTM, (Motorway Traffic Management) as it is called here, was implemented on the A13 motorway between The Hague and Rotterdam in 1981. There is a flip side to that coin though, nowadays our MTM infrastructure is severely antiquated because one system is needed, so they still run on 1980's technology (copper wire, MS DOS, speed in baud, that kind of stuff)


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## Danielk2

Some places, manually controlled electronic signs are horrible. 
Aalborg would be a great example. 
Today, there was a 10km congestion with traffic moving at 5-10 km/h. 
Still, the traffic signs says the speed limit is 70 km/h. 

Sometimes speed limit suddenly changes from 90 at one sign to 50 at the next sign.
Or 50 at 1 sign and 90 at the next one.


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## Nexis

I took these today on I-280 in North Jersey 










Going Westbound





































The Highway is in bad shape , but the DOT is not fixing part up yet , i have a feeling it has to do with the area its in. Because they fixed up the Harrison , Newark , and first 7 miles.





































Going up the Watchung Mountains




























My exit










I-280 Eastbound














































Exiting I-280



















The GSP Flyover to Westbound I-280










I hope you enjoyed this update.

~Corey


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## JeremyCastle

I have a question about the center dividers. Much of Interstate 5 in California has nothing but a wide stretch of grass between the two sides of the highway though a stretch near Bakersfield has in the last few years put one in. Also, when visiting Virginia, I noticed that there were trees in the center rather than having a center divider. Finally, I think in most rural places in the west there is usually no center divider(need confirmation).

I was wondering, how much of the Interstate system is without a man-made barrier in the center? Is this the exception or the rule? And does there have to be a minimum width between the two sides of traffic for there not to be a center divider and assuming their is, does this differ from State law to State law?


----------



## Nexis

JeremyCastle said:


> I have a question about the center dividers. Much of Interstate 5 in California has nothing but a wide stretch of grass between the two sides of the highway though a stretch near Bakersfield has in the last few years put one in. Also, when visiting Virginia, I noticed that there were trees in the center rather than having a center divider. Finally, I think in most rural places in the west there is usually no center divider(need confirmation).
> 
> I was wondering, how much of the Interstate system is without a man-made barrier in the center? Is this the exception or the rule? And does there have to be a minimum width between the two sides of traffic for there not to be a center divider and assuming their is, does this differ from State law to State law?


Suburban / Urban Interstates use Concrete or sometimes on older interstates steel dividers. Rural areas usually have grass medians or trees , unless its a busy interstate. Then it will have a steel cable barrier in the center.


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## kalibob32

and im sure there is also a minimum distance b/w the directions if there is no barrier/divider - i just dont know what that min is


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## Stuck in Bama

Here are a couple of Birmingham feeway videos from youtube.

I-20 West (on this video exit 110 Alabama Adventure Pkwy is the exit used to get to my house)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkxJcSCxisw

Another I-20 vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBrew9HDmI0

I-20/59 East/North & Red Mountain Expressway
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQSwtf4Q10Y

I-65 South
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR8lbBLB6Vg

I-65 North
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIwpGNSQnzk


----------



## Danielk2




----------



## Tom 958

JeremyCastle said:


> I have a question about the center dividers. Much of Interstate 5 in California has nothing but a wide stretch of grass between the two sides of the highway though a stretch near Bakersfield has in the last few years put one in. Also, when visiting Virginia, I noticed that there were trees in the center rather than having a center divider. Finally, I think in most rural places in the west there is usually no center divider(need confirmation).
> 
> I was wondering, how much of the Interstate system is without a man-made barrier in the center? Is this the exception or the rule? And does there have to be a minimum width between the two sides of traffic for there not to be a center divider and assuming their is, does this differ from State law to State law?


Fully expecting to get my head blown off over this...

As far as standards, they're set by FHWA and developed by or in consultation with AASHTO, the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials. AFAIK, AASHTO is a semi-voluntary organization which works through consensus rather than trying to impose a single standard on everyone, and there is therefore room for different policies by different member agencies, and not just on median width and guardrail requirements.

I think that most states follow the standard of a 60 foot graded median except in mountainous areas where 36 feet is the standard. Some states, Virginia being one, typically provide a wide median with independent profiles for the roadways. Tennessee apparently started with the 60 foot standard for most of I-40 and I-65, then went to independent profiles for its newer Interstates.

Some states deviate from this standard. Alabama's medians look narrower than Georgia's-- maybe 50 and 30 feet. Others are a bit wider-- there are places in NC where two lanes and a jersey barrier have been added in a narrow median and there's still room for a decently wide paved left shoulder, where there wouldn't be in Georgia or SC. 

As far as barriers, in my own pathetically limited travels (only SC and NC in the last year), it seems that cable rails are becoming more popular, even where medians are 60 feet wide or better. They're installed virtually everywhere in the Carolinas, and Georgia is slowly but deliberately catching up, starting with I-85 north of Atlanta, the most heavily travelled such route in the state. As far as deciding which routes have and don't have them... once a policy decision is made that a 60 foot graded median should have a cable rail barrier, there's the question of funding priority: which routes get them first (the ones on which median-crossing accidents are most likely to occur) and how installing them compares with other needs.


----------



## JeremyCastle

Tom 958, thanks for that info, helps alot... but what do you mean by 'independent profile' like you stated in your example of Virginia.


----------



## Tom 958

JeremyCastle said:


> Tom 958, thanks for that info, helps alot... but what do you mean by 'independent profile' like you stated in your example of Virginia.


It means that each of the two roadways is designed as a separate entity, independent of the other. Doing this allows the designers to match the roadway more closely to the terrain, thereby saving on grading and somewhat compensating for the increased cost of right of way and overcrossing bridges.

EDIT: Which reminds me: I-95 between Richmond and DC was originally built with a wide median and independently-profiled roadways. But the overcrossing bridges had room under them for only two-lane roadways on I-95. When the stretch was widened to 2x3 in the early '80's, all of the bridges were removed and replaced to allow full clearance for the newly-widened three lane roadways. A bit of forthought could've saved quite a lot of money. hno:


----------



## myosh_tino

JeremyCastle said:


> I have a question about the center dividers. Much of Interstate 5 in California has nothing but a wide stretch of grass between the two sides of the highway though a stretch near Bakersfield has in the last few years put one in. Also, when visiting Virginia, I noticed that there were trees in the center rather than having a center divider. Finally, I think in most rural places in the west there is usually no center divider(need confirmation).
> 
> I was wondering, how much of the Interstate system is without a man-made barrier in the center? Is this the exception or the rule? And does there have to be a minimum width between the two sides of traffic for there not to be a center divider and assuming their is, does this differ from State law to State law?


Prior to 1997, Caltrans (California Department of Transportation) guidelines stated that on urban freeways, no median barrier was required if the space between the travel lanes exceeded 45 feet. After a few head-on collisions on California State Route 85 which opened in 1994 and had a 46-50 foot median with no barrier, the guidelines were changed. The new guidelines requires all medians less than 75 feet wide had to have a barrier (steel or concrete).

Mind you, this only applies to freeways running in urban areas. Not sure what the guidelines are for rural freeways. If I find out, I will post it.


----------



## pwalker

JeremyCastle said:


> I have a question about the center dividers. Much of Interstate 5 in California has nothing but a wide stretch of grass between the two sides of the highway though a stretch near Bakersfield has in the last few years put one in. Also, when visiting Virginia, I noticed that there were trees in the center rather than having a center divider. Finally, I think in most rural places in the west there is usually no center divider(need confirmation).
> 
> I was wondering, how much of the Interstate system is without a man-made barrier in the center? Is this the exception or the rule? And does there have to be a minimum width between the two sides of traffic for there not to be a center divider and assuming their is, does this differ from State law to State law?



You mention a "stretch near Bakersfield"...I wonder if you are talking about I-5, or US Hwy 99, which runs through Bakersfield. The interstate standards are different from US/State highway standards.


----------



## JeremyCastle

pwalker said:


> You mention a "stretch near Bakersfield"...I wonder if you are talking about I-5, or US Hwy 99, which runs through Bakersfield. The interstate standards are different from US/State highway standards.


 I'm talking about I-5. Maybe I should have said Buttonwillow rather than Bakersfield, but I doubt most people(even Central Californians) know where that is.


----------



## dl3000

JeremyCastle said:


> I'm talking about I-5. Maybe I should have said Buttonwillow rather than Bakersfield, but I doubt most people(even Central Californians) know where that is.


Somewhere near Kettleman City?


----------



## JeremyCastle

dl3000 said:


> Somewhere near Kettleman City?


 Before Kettleman City, I think between Buttonwillow and Kettleman City, before the interstate reaches the hills. There was this several mile stretch that didn't used to have any center divider, and then I think 2 or 3 years ago, it was put in. After you pass that section, the divider disappears. Maybe there were some accidents, which is why they put the divider. Just thought it was strange to see one there, as the rest of I-5 through that part of California doesn't have one.

As a side note, the In-N-Out Burger in Kettleman city was a greatly looked forward to stop between my journeys between San Diego and San Francisco.... Yummy. What I wouldn't do for a double double right now.  But seeing as I am in the UK now, it'll be awhile before I get to stop there again. Here, they have crap McDonalds and Burger King.:-( But I digress and am getting off-topic.


----------



## Nexis

I-5 Timelapse from Tukwila to Northgate (Seattle) 
*Look , some ETC signs are up.






I-5 Timelapse Northgate (Seattle) to Tukwila


----------



## JeremyCastle

Nexis, Love the music on the two videos... fits perfectly.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nexis didn't make those videos, but failed to credit the uploader (punkrawker4783)


----------



## urbanlover

*America's 100 Deadliest Highways*



quick disclaimer: If you’re driving right now and reading this, put down your smartphone and come back later—please.

Summertime, when America traditionally takes to the road, carries with it a more somber tradition—“the 100 deadliest days” of the year for drivers, according to Susan P. Owings, co-founder of Road Safe America. An astounding 50,765 fatal accidents occurred in June, July, and August from 2004 to 2008, according to data from the National Highway Safety Administration. While fatalities have been steadily decreasing since 2005, 37,261 motorists and passengers nonetheless lost their lives in 2008.

These lives were lost disproportionally: Some roads are more dangerous than others—reckless or distracted drivers seem to congregate on certain highway corridors, while poor road maintenance is another common cause of collisions. We crunched the numbers for five years of accident data, courtesy of the NHSA, from nearly 250 stretches of interstate highways to find out which roads are the most deadly, mile-for-mile.

Some notes: Each interstate was broken into stretches within a single state. We measured fatal accidents, rather than total fatalities, which we then divided by the number of miles of that stretch. And any ties that may appear on these raw numbers driving these rankings are only because of rounding.


#1, I-95
Florida

2004-2008
In-state miles: 382.15
Fatal accidents: 662
Fatal accidents per mile: 1.73
Total fatalities: 765

#2, I-76
New Jersey

2004-2008
In-state miles: 3.04 
Fatal accidents: 5
Fatal accidents per mile: 1.64
Total fatalities: 6

#3, I-4
Florida

2004-2008
In-state miles: 132.39 
Fatal accidents: 209
Fatal accidents per mile: 1.58
Total fatalities: 234

#4, I-15
California

2004-2008
In-state miles: 287.26
Fatal accidents: 437
Fatal accidents per mile: 1.52
Total fatalities: 506

#5, I-10
California

2004-2008
In-state miles: 242.54
Fatal accidents: 341
Fatal accidents per mile: 1.41
Total fatalities: 387

#6, I-59
Louisiana

2004-2008
In-state miles: 11.48
Fatal accidents: 16
Fatal accidents per mile: 1.40
Total fatalities: 16

#7, I-94
Illinois

2004-2008
In-state miles: 61.53
Fatal accidents: 85
Fatal accidents per mile: 1.38 
Total fatalities: 89

#8, I-93
Massachusetts

2004-2008
In-state miles: 47.07
Fatal accidents: 61
Fatal accidents per mile: 1.30
Total fatalities: 67

#9, I-95
Delaware

2004-2008
In-state miles: 23.43
Fatal accidents: 29
Fatal accidents per mile: 1.24
Total fatalities: 30

#10, I-55
Tennessee

2004-2008
In-state miles: 12.28
Fatal accidents: 15
Fatal accidents per mile: 1.22
Total fatalities: 16

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-...terstates-most-likely-to-cause-a-fatal-crash/


----------



## Penn's Woods

urbanlover said:


> *America's 100 Deadliest Highways*
> 
> 
> 
> quick disclaimer: If you’re driving right now and reading this, put down your smartphone and come back later—please.
> 
> Summertime, when America traditionally takes to the road, carries with it a more somber tradition—“the 100 deadliest days” of the year for drivers, according to Susan P. Owings, co-founder of Road Safe America. An astounding 50,765 fatal accidents occurred in June, July, and August from 2004 to 2008, according to data from the National Highway Safety Administration. While fatalities have been steadily decreasing since 2005, 37,261 motorists and passengers nonetheless lost their lives in 2008.
> 
> These lives were lost disproportionally: Some roads are more dangerous than others—reckless or distracted drivers seem to congregate on certain highway corridors, while poor road maintenance is another common cause of collisions. We crunched the numbers for five years of accident data, courtesy of the NHSA, from nearly 250 stretches of interstate highways to find out which roads are the most deadly, mile-for-mile.
> 
> Some notes: Each interstate was broken into stretches within a single state. We measured fatal accidents, rather than total fatalities, which we then divided by the number of miles of that stretch. And any ties that may appear on these raw numbers driving these rankings are only because of rounding.
> 
> 
> #1, I-95
> Florida
> 
> 2004-2008
> In-state miles: 382.15
> Fatal accidents: 662
> Fatal accidents per mile: 1.73
> Total fatalities: 765
> 
> #2, I-76
> New Jersey
> 
> 2004-2008
> In-state miles: 3.04
> Fatal accidents: 5
> Fatal accidents per mile: 1.64
> Total fatalities: 6
> 
> #3, I-4
> Florida
> 
> 2004-2008
> In-state miles: 132.39
> Fatal accidents: 209
> Fatal accidents per mile: 1.58
> Total fatalities: 234
> 
> #4, I-15
> California
> 
> 2004-2008
> In-state miles: 287.26
> Fatal accidents: 437
> Fatal accidents per mile: 1.52
> Total fatalities: 506
> 
> #5, I-10
> California
> 
> 2004-2008
> In-state miles: 242.54
> Fatal accidents: 341
> Fatal accidents per mile: 1.41
> Total fatalities: 387
> 
> #6, I-59
> Louisiana
> 
> 2004-2008
> In-state miles: 11.48
> Fatal accidents: 16
> Fatal accidents per mile: 1.40
> Total fatalities: 16
> 
> #7, I-94
> Illinois
> 
> 2004-2008
> In-state miles: 61.53
> Fatal accidents: 85
> Fatal accidents per mile: 1.38
> Total fatalities: 89
> 
> #8, I-93
> Massachusetts
> 
> 2004-2008
> In-state miles: 47.07
> Fatal accidents: 61
> Fatal accidents per mile: 1.30
> Total fatalities: 67
> 
> #9, I-95
> Delaware
> 
> 2004-2008
> In-state miles: 23.43
> Fatal accidents: 29
> Fatal accidents per mile: 1.24
> Total fatalities: 30
> 
> #10, I-55
> Tennessee
> 
> 2004-2008
> In-state miles: 12.28
> Fatal accidents: 15
> Fatal accidents per mile: 1.22
> Total fatalities: 16
> 
> http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-...terstates-most-likely-to-cause-a-fatal-crash/


I-76 in New Jersey is very urban - just three miles (like the thing says), all of it in the near suburbs of Philadelphia and part of it on a major bridge and its approaches. Must be one of the more-heavily-traveled...what to call them, "state segments"?...of Interstate in the country. Segments 7 through 10 on this list are likewise heavily-traveled urban and suburban stretches. Are there statistics that adjust for the density of traffic? Not that it's clear to me how you do that....


----------



## Tom 958

Penn's Woods said:


> I-76 in New Jersey is very urban - just three miles (like the thing says), all of it in the near suburbs of Philadelphia and part of it on a major bridge and its approaches. Must be one of the more-heavily-traveled...what to call them, "state segments"?...of Interstate in the country. Segments 7 through 10 on this list are likewise heavily-traveled urban and suburban stretches. Are there statistics that adjust for the density of traffic? Not that it's clear to me how you do that....


I suppose there are such stats, but even this unsophisticated analysis is pretty interesting. By the time you get to...

#100, I-96
Michigan

2004-2008
In-state miles: 192.06 
Fatal accidents: 87
*Fatal accidents per mile: 0.45*
Total fatalities: 91

0.45 is a lot different from 1.73 for I-95 in Florida, especially since both have both urban and rural sections.

Amusingly, three commenters insist that there's no such thing as I-59 in Louisiana. :lol: I have better things to do than correct them.


----------



## JuanPaulo

FM 2258 said:


> Nice pictures. I always thought Interstate H201 should have been called Interstate 2H1. It looks better and has a cooler ring to it.
> 
> Interstate 35, 235
> Interstate H1, 2H1


My intuition told me the same at first but after analyzing the interstate rules for numbering it totally makes sense. Remember that the "H" is a prefix so theoretically it is not part of the route number. The route makes a loop around the H1 so per numbering rules, it must be a three digit number starting with an even number.

Interstate 5, 205
Interstate H1, H201


----------



## JuanPaulo

*INTERSTATE H2 - Northbound between Waipahu and Wahiawa*


















_photo by JuanPaulo_









_photo by JuanPaulo_









_photo by JuanPaulo_









_photo by JuanPaulo_​


----------



## JuanPaulo

*INTERSTATE H2 - Southbound between Mililani and Waipahu Interchange*


















_photo by JuanPaulo_









_photo by JuanPaulo_​


----------



## HAWC1506

I hate to say this, but that's some really awful concrete tining.


----------



## JuanPaulo

if tining refers to the ripples on the road, you would be surprise because they feel great to drive on... even better than some of those smooth pavement roads.


----------



## sonysnob

^ I think that is called wisper grooving. It drastically reduces the 'whistle' associated with concrete. Its common on California Freeways as well.


----------



## Davodavo

Highways in California are free, or how does it work?


----------



## bd popeye

Davodavo said:


> Highways in California are free, or how does it work?


97% or so are free there are a few toll roads and bridges. 

I see threads here about different countries highway system. All most all pale in comparison to the highways in the Golden State... California!


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Come to think of it California doesn't have many toll roads.


----------



## Xusein

Many of it's bridges in the Bay Area are tolled though, similar to NYC where all highways are free but most of the bridges aren't.


----------



## dl3000

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Come to think of it California doesn't have many toll roads.


But there are some. At least every major metro has one. Only major bridge that isn't toll that I can think of is the San Diego-Coronado Bridge. Not sure about the one in the LA harbor.


----------



## mgk920

Aside from the Bay-area bridges, there are *NO* 'tolled' interstates in California. All of the land-based tollways in California are non-interstate and they are all are in the southern part of the state.

Mike


----------



## Davodavo

bd popeye said:


> 97% or so are free there are a few toll roads and bridges.
> 
> I see threads here about different countries highway system. All most all pale in comparison to the highways in the Golden State... California!


Thank you bd popeye, it's what I thought. I'll check it however in two weeks time.
Cheers.


----------



## Slagathor

I somehow got it into my head that most of the lineage on US roads was in yellow, but that doesn't seem to be the case from all the photos in this thread. Am I losing my mind or did it used to be more yellow in the past, or is that the case on a different type of road, or..?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yellow road markings separate driving directions.


----------



## CptSchmidt

Slagathor said:


> I somehow got it into my head that most of the lineage on US roads was in yellow, but that doesn't seem to be the case from all the photos in this thread. Am I losing my mind or did it used to be more yellow in the past, or is that the case on a different type of road, or..?


Yellow is only used for the centre divide line. Like Chris said, it tells you if you're going the right way.


----------



## Slagathor

Oh right, I got that all wrong then. Thanks!


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yellow road markings separate driving directions.


I usually bash US for using text signs instead of pictograms like in Europe, but the use of clearly different colors for markings separating same direction and opposite direction is something Europe should copy ASAP.

Sure, no one is taking (usually) a wrong direction in an access-controlled highway, but sometimes, in urban traffic, having a yellow line helps a lot.


----------



## urbanlover

I-40 in Arizona


----------



## Nexis

I forgot to post these form a few weeks ago....

I-278 aka the Staten Island Expressway aka The Expressway forrm hell :lol:









































































Goethals Bridge 


















^ I did hit him , but he didn't stop driving , dam New York Trucks hno:

Entering Elizabeth ,NJ - 4th Largest City in NJ










Up Next : The Western Spur of the NJTPK, which i haven't really done.....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Speed limits in Virginia will be raised to 70 mph, effective July 1st, 2010. :cheers:


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> Speed limits in Virginia will be raised to 70 mph, effective July 1st, 2010. :cheers:


Cool.


----------



## nerdly_dood

Not all of them, but over 700 miles of Interstate highways are under study to see if they're ready for it.


----------



## nerdly_dood

A news article from the small town of Culpeper:


Opinion is divided on the benefits and safety of increasing the speed limit from 65 to 70 mph on hundreds of miles of Virginia interstate roads, a change that could take effect on portions of some roads by July 1.

The Virginia Department of Transportation is studying increasing the speed limit on more than 700 miles of Virginia interstates, including a 12-mile stretch of Interstate 64 in Augusta County and Waynesboro from the Interstate 81 junction to Afton Mountain.

The last time the commonwealth increased the interstate speed limit was in 2006 on sections of Interstate 85 near the North Carolina border.

Proponents, including state legislators who voted for the bills authorizing the change, say many drivers already travel at least 70 mph. The lawmakers said they trust VDOT’s judgment on where the increases should happen. The higher limit could improve traffic flow, lawmakers said.

Opponents said lawmakers are ignoring the impact on safety.

“There is a direct correlation between higher speed limits and more deaths on the highway,‘’ said Russ Rader, a spokesman for the Insurance Institute For Highway Safety, a research organization funded by the auto insurance industry. “There is a tradeoff. If we want to get people to destinations faster, it means accepting more deaths on the highway.“

Rader points to a 2009 study published in the American Journal of Public Health that said in the decade after Congress repealed a national maximum speed limit in 1995, more than 12,500 additional highway deaths were tied to increased speed limits.

The researchers concluded that instead of an increase, a reduction in speed limits on rural and urban roads would save lives, reduce gas use and cut pollution.

In Virginia, highway fatalities have been on the decline since 2007, when they rose to 1,026. The number of fatalities statewide dropped to 821 in 2008 and 756 in 2009.

Rader said if speed limits are increased, many motorists will drive 5 mph to 10 mph above the posted limit.

State Sen. Emmett Hanger, R-Mount Solon, voted against a bill in the upper chamber authorizing the speed limit changes because he sees enforcement as not strict enough for the current 65 mph speed limit on interstates.

“If we go to 70, drivers will increase speeds to 76, 77 miles per hour and some will approach 80,‘’ he said.

Other legislators are putting their faith in VDOT and the Virginia State Police to pick the appropriate interstate areas.

Del. Bill Carrico, R-Grayson, a retired Virginia state trooper, sponsored the House legislation.

Carrico said 33 states have increased the speed limit on portions of their roads to 70 mph, and the change here would allow for a consistent rate of speed and improved traffic flow.

“You don’t have people coming up on others going slower and causing more accidents,‘’ he said.

He said “speed alone’‘ is not the reason for crashes, but the difference in speeds.

“It is someone going 90 behind someone going 65,‘’ he said.

Carrico said VDOT will make the determination whether the proposed interstate areas can handle an increased speed limit.

VDOT also will look at increasing the speed limits on 35 miles of HOV lanes and 150 miles of limited access roads.

Dale Bennett, president and CEO of the Virginia Trucking Association, said that organization approves of the way the speed limit changes are being researched.

“If VDOT’s safety and engineering study supports it and law enforcement supports it, we are fine with the way it is being done,‘’ said Bennett, who added that the trucking association also supports enforcement of speed limits.

VDOT Staunton District Spokeswoman Sandy Myers said the agency will look at traffic, crash volume, congestion and a host of other factors.

Those include the road characteristics, signs, traffic flow, closeness of interchanges, development and what potential improvements could be made to the area including signs, guardrails and enforcement.

VDOT has been studying since April the first phase of interstate roads that could see increased speed limits, including the I-64 stretch through Augusta County and Waynesboro.

According to VDOT’s traffic count log on its website, the targeted area of I-64 had an average daily count of 34,000 to 36,000 vehicles per day in 2008. Traffic counts on the same interstate outside Richmond are more than three times higher, according to VDOT data.

Other members of the area’s legislative delegation besides Hanger supported the legislation. They think the study will provide the right decisions.

“We are putting the onus on the people who deal with traffic, VDOT and the state police,‘’ said Del. Steve Landes, R-Weyers Cave.

Del. Dickie Bell, R-Staunton, who also supported the House bill, said interstate roads were designed for travel of 70 mph, and many drivers already drive that speed.

Myers said VDOT’s commissioner has the OK to authorize the increased speed limit once the study has been complete.

Carrico said depending on how quickly VDOT is able to collect data, some of the interstates could see the increased speed limit as soon as July 1.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Europeans are always a bit surprised about the low American speed limits on freeways. In Europe, 75 or 80 mph outside the immediate urban area is very common, and lower than 60 mph in urban areas is uncommon. For example, much of greater suburban Paris is posted at 70 mph. That would've most likely been 55 or 60 in the U.S.

So these harsh discussions about raising the speed limit on a freeway by a marginal 5 mph is always a bit surprising to us.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Well if Americans would learn to use the passing lane correctly a lot of problems would be solved right there. A difference of speeds is never a good thing.


----------



## Rail Claimore

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Well if Americans would learn to use the passing lane correctly a lot of problems would be solved right there. A difference of speeds is never a good thing.


Exactly. There are also too many drivers on our interstates that like to go 50 or 55 mph. It's ridiculous. Minimum speeds on rural interstates should be 65, and strictly enforced. If you can't drive that fast, stick to surface roads.

Americans who can actually properly drive their vehicles and know proper passing etiquette regularly go 75 to 80 on most interstates and just keep a keen eye for cops. We don't have many speed photo enforcement cameras on our highways yet, so if you're skilled, you can usually get away with it.


----------



## Shifty2k5

urbanlover said:


> I-40 in Arizona



Thank you so much for posting that video. I drove there this april and 
it truly was an amazing drive.. It was an experience of a lifetime for a simple swede like me. Appreciate it


----------



## dl3000

Rail Claimore said:


> Exactly. There are also too many drivers on our interstates that like to go 50 or 55 mph. It's ridiculous. Minimum speeds on rural interstates should be 65, and strictly enforced. If you can't drive that fast, stick to surface roads.
> 
> Americans who can actually properly drive their vehicles and know proper passing etiquette regularly go 75 to 80 on most interstates and just keep a keen eye for cops. We don't have many speed photo enforcement cameras on our highways yet, so if you're skilled, you can usually get away with it.


This is very true. Passing etiquette is more of a suggestion than a rule. It's a shame. Another thing that bothers me is it seems that fewer and fewer people signal their lane changes!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-275westcoastfl said:


> A difference of speeds is never a good thing.


Interesting to notice that in Europe, with it's significant higher speed limits, the speed differences between trucks and cars is much bigger. Trucks are limited to 50 or 55 mph virtually all countries, while passenger cars are driving 75 - 80 mph. That's a 20 - 30 mph speed difference.


----------



## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> Interesting to notice that in Europe, with it's significant higher speed limits, the speed differences between trucks and cars is much bigger. Trucks are limited to 50 or 55 mph virtually all countries, while passenger cars are driving 75 - 80 mph. That's a 20 - 30 mph speed difference.


Some US states have differential speed limits for trucks and passenger cars. FHWA commissioned a study several years ago to see if they produced any safety benefit and was not able to find a statistically significant effect on safety, either good or bad.

In the EU, it is my understanding that differential speed limits are mandated by the EU Commission through directive: in other words, no EU country has the option of having the same motorway speed limit for trucks, cars, and buses.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Noise issues are very important these days in Europe. I've read a 15% truck share of trucks that are doing 55 mph produce the same noise level as the other 85% of car traffic that is doing 75 mph.


----------



## Nexis

ChrisZwolle said:


> Interesting to notice that in Europe, with it's significant higher speed limits, the speed differences between trucks and cars is much bigger. Trucks are limited to 50 or 55 mph virtually all countries, while passenger cars are driving 75 - 80 mph. That's a 20 - 30 mph speed difference.


Your Fuel efficiency is better then ours , so maybe thats why its higher.


----------



## Dallas boi

The largest interchange in the World.

The High 5 Interchange Dallas, Texas, USA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4TY3QlTfmM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdQbGzj9WWI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRjn5CO8IpY


----------



## dl3000

^I don't think it's as big as the East LA interchange but I could be wrong.


----------



## geogregor

Rail Claimore said:


> Americans who can actually properly drive their vehicles and know proper passing etiquette regularly go 75 to 80 on most interstates and just keep a keen eye for cops. We don't have many speed photo enforcement cameras on our highways yet, so if you're skilled, you can usually get away with it.


I just did 3800 miles in Dakotas, Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota and Wisconsin.
Lane discipline is largely nonexistent. But it is an issue only in dense urban areas or busy interstates like I-80 through Iowa. On empty rural freeways there is no problem you just overtake on the right. On most of my trip I rarely seen troopers patrolling. The only exception is Twin Cities area where I've seen more cops than on rest of the trip. Anyone knows reason for that? I realized most people go few miles over limit but it is usually still slow by European standards. What I like is that virtually everyone respect local speed limits in small towns (when you drive not on freeways). In Poland people mostly completely ignore them.
I have to say that some freeways are very poor quality. For example I-94 west of Minneapolis looks almost as bad as famous A4 in Poland before renovation few years ago. We used to call it the longest steps in Europe
I don't even mention some local roads in Illinois or Wisconsin. hno:
I'll post some pictures. Now it's time to force myself to sleep to kill the jet-lag.


----------



## Haljackey

I like the aesthetics of the high five interchange! Makes it look like more than a bunch of concrete.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Europeans are always a bit surprised about the low American speed limits on freeways. In Europe, 75 or 80 mph outside the immediate urban area is very common, and lower than 60 mph in urban areas is uncommon. For example, much of greater suburban Paris is posted at 70 mph. That would've most likely been 55 or 60 in the U.S.
> 
> So these harsh discussions about raising the speed limit on a freeway by a marginal 5 mph is always a bit surprising to us.


It's even worse in Canada. Max speed is 100km/h (about 60mph) on freeways. In western Canada you will rarely see 110km/h (about 65mph) yet the standards of these highways are actually worse than the 100km/h freeways.

When I went to Europe, I was very surprised to see 120 limits in urban areas, and 130 in rural areas. I envy those places with no speed limit, like Germany.

What's the highest posted speed limit in the US? Is it 80mph in western Texas or is there a place with a higher limit?


----------



## dl3000

Plus if someone drifts in their lane, the dots are easily heard. If they were all reflective, it would be quite bright.


----------



## go_leafs_go02

dl3000 said:


> Plus if someone drifts in their lane, the dots are easily heard. If they were all reflective, it would be quite bright.


Washington State does that, and man, it looks beautiful at night. Everything is reflectorized


----------



## HAWC1506

Botts Dots work well in mild-weather states. In Washington State where it snows, the raised pavement markings are dug up by snowplows. Even then, they don't work well in areas with heavy traffic volumes. However, they are very visible in the rain which is a plus.

Washington State has now shifted to "Profiled Pavement Markings". These are regular plastic markings, but with parts of them thicker to form a "rumble" strip. It combines the durability and reflectivity of plastic markings with the safety mechanism of Botts Dots. I believe this is widely used in the Netherlands and the UK. I wouldn't expect German Autobahns to use these at non-restricted sections.










Sometimes, both Botts Dots and Profiled Pavement Markings are used.


----------



## FM 2258

geogregor said:


> Some promised photos from my trip.
> First few shots from I-94 somewhere between Fargo and Bismarck in North Dakota:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be continued....


I love these photos. Speed limit 75 will work well with me on freeways.


----------



## pwalker

FM 2258 said:


> I love these photos. Speed limit 75 will work well with me on freeways.


That's a great shot, and a good example of how the Interstate system was designed in the late 50's. Wide medians, and note the attention to keeping the median in great shape. (I understand many medians have been filled in due to population growth, but this is the original standard!)


----------



## geogregor

FM 2258 said:


> I love these photos. Speed limit 75 will work well with me on freeways.


I think 75 on such freeway is still to low. Of course most people drive around 10 miles extra which means 85mph but even that is not too fast for such straight, not heavily trafficked, and well maintained road.

A lot of traffic in Europe flays around 90mph on much more congested and curvy freeways.


----------



## Pansori

Love the wide medians: http://lh6.ggpht.com/_MwSilCWQeS4/TCJ9kkKdJCI/AAAAAAAAJ_w/Uy_QJby-v0I/s800/DSC03246.JPG


----------



## Barciur

> I think 75 on such freeway is still to low. Of course most people drive around 10 miles extra which means 85mph but even that is not too fast for such straight, not heavily trafficked, and well maintained road.
> 
> A lot of traffic in Europe flays around 90mph on much more congested and curvy freeways.


Right, but there are highways like that in Northeast and max speed here is 65.. we'd welcome 75 very much


----------



## JuanPaulo

So in summary what is the reason for using Botts Dots? I thought it had to do with durability for they last much longer than the usual rubberized paint.


----------



## Aan

I'm curious about those american medians, what's reason behind their shape that they are using pit shape instead of hill shape or just straight horizontal shape on the level with road? It would be more logical for me to use hill shape, because when you accidentaly go there you will easier go back and it's harder to get car on the roof than when you are going downhill, isn't? Or why not just use straight horizontal medians?


----------



## HAWC1506

JuanPaulo said:


> So in summary what is the reason for using Botts Dots? I thought it had to do with durability for they last much longer than the usual rubberized paint.


Botts Dots were created to provide the "vibration" when you drive over them. That was the primary purpose. They are less durable than plastic paint.

They are gradually being replaced with profiled pavement markings in many areas, especially those with high traffic volumes.


----------



## FM 2258

Aan said:


> I'm curious about those american medians, what's reason behind their shape that they are using pit shape instead of hill shape or just straight horizontal shape on the level with road? It would be more logical for me to use hill shape, because when you accidentaly go there you will easier go back and it's harder to get car on the roof than when you are going downhill, isn't? Or why not just use straight horizontal medians?


My guess is for water drainage. Plus it appears that the pavement is always a little bit higher than the immediate surrounding terrain


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, so that if the snow melts, the freeway isn't immediately under water. I remember those floods in Cedar Rapids, Iowa and New Orleans, Louisiana, where the freeways were the only roads still passable.


----------



## Aan

yeah, I figured that after studying some pages about median (after posting) and saw some photos with water that this can be one of the reasons (this can be solved as in Europe), but still think it's more dangerous for cars/drivers than uphill/straight median


----------



## Nexis

The Interstate Part of my trip today....

I-280 East in East Orange,NJ










City of Newark - NJ's Largest and Second most Diverse City














































Exiting



















Later after the Newark Museum - NJ's Largest Museum.....

I-280 East in University Heights / Downtown























































City of Harrison - one of NJ's Fastest Urban Renewal cities



















A view of Downtown Newark





































Exiting I-280 to Hudson County route 508



















~Corey


----------



## brewerfan386

*Historical photos of Wisconsin Interstates*
courtesy of the Wisconsin Historical Society









The intersection of Interstate 90/ 94 with USH 12 between Baraboo and Lake Delton. 









I-90 overpass in Rock County









Interstate Highway I-90 and USH 12/18 (the beltline) east of Madison.









Interstate highway I-94/ USH 41 in Kenosha County.









Interstate I-90 and State Highway 35 at La Crosse, looking towards Minnesota.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interesting! You can see the development, on that Madison pic, the suburb of McFarland wasn't there yet, as was the Kenosha Regional Airport.


----------



## mgk920

ChrisZwolle said:


> Interesting! You can see the development, on that Madison pic, the suburb of McFarland wasn't there yet, as was the Kenosha Regional Airport.


McFarland was there, but it was a very tiny, isolated village located off of that image to the right that was swamped up into the Madison metro area since. The City of Madison itself has been gaining about 20K in population in each USCensus since at least WWII and has historically been highly aggressive with annexation. Most of that interchange area is now in the City of Madison.

Also, only now is I-94 in Kenosha and Racine Counties being re-engineered to eliminate the last of those screwy frontage road interchanges (I-43 was never on that grade). It is being upgraded from six to eight through lanes as a part of that project - on a grade that was already 2+2 _before_ WWII. http://www.plan94.org/ Before the interstates, it was US 41, which the highway is still marked as, in addition to I-94. It is the main highway between Chicagoland and Milwaukee.

Mike


----------



## brewerfan386

The Lake Delton exit has also scene alot of development over the years as well. Especially now with the new expressway/ freeway bypass of the existing USH 12 grade south to Baraboo, currently under construction. (starting at Fern-Dell road)








side note: WisDot has almost NOTHING about the bypass on there web site, except for a single PDF brochure from 2006. While one intersection in Polk County gets four different webpages full of design info, contacts, studies, and traffic info/ detours.:nuts::bash:


----------



## mgk920

brewerfan386 said:


> The Lake Delton exit has also scene alot of development over the years as well. Especially now with the new expressway/ freeway bypass of the existing USH 12 grade south to Baraboo, currently under construction. (starting at Fern-Dell road)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> side note: WisDot has almost NOTHING about the bypass on there web site, except for a single PDF brochure from 2006. While one intersection in Polk County gets four different webpages full of design info, contacts, studies, and traffic info/ detours.:nuts::bash:


Also, I do not at all like how that new US 12 freeway is being connected to I-90/94 there (a direct feed into the existing interchange from the south). I would have connected it to the interstate with a trumpet intechange by the curve at the west end of that image, with the existing US 12 interchange being 'piggybacked' on it using collector/distributor lanes. This would keep the existing highway in place for local access to the fast-growing resort developments in that area while removing the through traffic from that area.

:bash:

Mike


----------



## brewerfan386

Nexis said:


> Is 6 lanes really needed there , seems such a waste.....hno:


Yes, three lanes are very needed on that stretch of road look at all the headlights coming towards the camera. Plus the area photographed is part of the somewhat famous triple Interstate concurrency in Wisconsin. I have driven that part before on MANY occasions and can tell you from experience that anything less then whats built now would be nightmarish (especially during the summer).


----------



## mgk920

Nexis said:


> Is 6 lanes really needed there , seems such a waste.....hno:


It is needed there BIG TIME. The six lanes were installed there in the mid 1980s (the original four-lane highway opened in the early 1960s), the construction work there now is because at that time, WisDOT inexplicably omitted the median barrier over most of that length (the six lanes runs between the US 12/18 'Beltline Interchange' in Madison to the I-39 split (the 'Cascade Interchange') near Portage, WI) and only now got around to putting it in. That highway is quite busy, indeed, and plans are well along to extend the six lanes southward on I-39/90 to the Illinois state line and the similarly recently upgraded Northwest Tollway.

I also believe that there should be long-term plans to upgrade I-90/94 from four to six lanes between that I-39 split and the I-90/94 split (the 'Tomah Interchange'). This section goes past the Wisconsin Dells area - a big-time midwestern USA tourist trap city (it is to us what Niagara Falls, the New Jersey Shore or Gatlinburg are to the northeast).

Combined with the northwoods vacation areas on and beyond the north end of I-39, even those six lanes between Madison and Portage are sometimes not enough on summer weekends (think: 'Chicagoland and metro Milwaukee').



Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The multiplex carries between 54,000 and 87,000 vehicles per day. Not extremely busy, but for a long distance, six lanes is preferred, as 75,000 + and four lanes are usually accident black spots.


----------



## Squiggles

Nexis said:


> Is 6 lanes really needed there , seems such a waste.....hno:


You should consider that this was taken after 8 p.m. on a Sunday. The freeway gets pretty busy on weekdays, and it's sometimes jammed for holidays (i.e. Fourth of July weekend).


----------



## sonysnob

The 605 Freeway, in California -- taken by me, back in March:





































More here: http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/605/index.html LA's Freeway's are neat -- unlike any other city's road network that I have been to.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^
Those signs need a good washing.


----------



## urbanlover

They just need to go those things are ridiculously outdated.


----------



## Penn's Woods

urbanlover said:


> They just need to go those things are ridiculously outdated.


That too. But they're so grimy they make you say, so that's what forty years in the smog does to you....


----------



## sonysnob

Button copy is everywhere in LA. Almost to the point, when driving the freeways I took more note of when I saw a reflectorized sign(!).

The grimy-ness of the signs is somewhat a reflection of the city. Los Angeles is an extremely neat place -- I can't wait to go back -- but a lot of the city feels just a little bit dirty.

Cheers.


----------



## Pansori

I have a question. 

I have an impression that US Interstates are typically not as busy as motorways in Europe (especially outside big cities or dense urban areas). What could be a typical AADT in some stretches of non-urban interstates somewhere in Vyoming or Nebraska?


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Pansori said:


> I have a question.
> 
> I have an impression that US Interstates are typically not as busy as motorways in Europe (especially outside big cities or dense urban areas). What could be a typical AADT in some stretches of non-urban interstates somewhere in Vyoming or Nebraska?


Depends where but states like Wyoming or Nebraska probably have very low AADT but in rural Florida for example the non-urban Interstates are pretty busy.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Generally eastern US: 20,000 - 40,000 outside metropolitan areas
Generally western US: 10,000 - 20,000 outside metropolitan areas

There are of course busier and more quiet sections than these. 

This is generally lower than in Europe, which is because of the population density. It's hard to find a rural motorway in the UK or the Netherlands with less than 40,000 vehicles, Germany is a bit of both, some rural Autobahns are floating around 50,000 but others are in the 20,000 range. 

I believe the quietest section of Interstate Highway carries 1,800 vehicles per day near Houlton, Main (I-95). Interstate 25 new Buffalo, Wyoming is also extremely quiet at 3,000 vehicles per day.


----------



## Rail Claimore

Most recent map I could find...










From FHWA.


----------



## Penn's Woods

A brief rant:

If anyone on this forum has any pull with the DC DOT, would they please get them to do something about the signage leading from K Street NW to I-66? It's always been bad, but in the past I've managed to find my way. Today, maybe the fourth time I've ever tried to do that, I somehow got onto E Street eastbound*, turned around (thinking it would head back the way it came, but no....) and ended up on the Whitehurst. At least I know my way around DC enough that I knew the Whitehurst would get me to Key Bridge so no harm done. But sheesh!

*There's a point at which one has to choose between E Street and...NOTHING. I'm guessing there used to be an I-66 West sign where there's nothing now. Since at the decision point before that one there was a sign saying E Street and Theodore Roosevelt Bridge** (the I-66 bridge), I figured, okay, I'll keep following E Street. 

**Actually, it didn't say "Theodore Roosevelt Bridge," but "TR Bridge." Without periods even. Soooooo helpful. And it was a pretty small sign.

If we never hear from Nerdly Dood again, we should probably assume he's lost trying to find his way back to Arlington.


----------



## nerdly_dood

LOL hell no, i wouldn't dare trying to drive in DC - the nearest subway station is a mile away, so an easy walk.

And about that map posted by Rail Claimore... I don't see how I-81 in Virginia could be green with Interstates in western states (Wyoming, MT, ID) are yellower in color - I-81 is very congested, and really needs an extra lane or two. (But, naturally, VDOT hardly has enough money to maintain what we already have, forget any upgrades) - I haven't been on any Western Interstates but I don't know how they could have more traffic than 81.


----------



## Nexis

nerdly_dood said:


> LOL hell no, i wouldn't dare trying to drive in DC - the nearest subway station is a mile away, so an easy walk.
> 
> And about that map posted by Rail Claimore... I don't see how I-81 in Virginia could be green with Interstates in western states (Wyoming, MT, ID) are yellower in color - I-81 is very congested, and really needs an extra lane or two. (But, naturally, VDOT hardly has enough money to maintain what we already have, forget any upgrades) - I haven't been on any Western Interstates but I don't know how they could have more traffic than 81.


What happen to the Dual Rail Corridor they were planning?


----------



## Penn's Woods

nerdly_dood said:


> LOL hell no, i wouldn't dare trying to drive in DC - the nearest subway station is a mile away, so an easy walk.
> 
> And about that map posted by Rail Claimore... I don't see how I-81 in Virginia could be green with Interstates in western states (Wyoming, MT, ID) are yellower in color - I-81 is very congested, and really needs an extra lane or two. (But, naturally, VDOT hardly has enough money to maintain what we already have, forget any upgrades) - I haven't been on any Western Interstates but I don't know how they could have more traffic than 81.


It looks to me like there's both a yellow and a yellow-green. As i read the map, everything in states like Wyoming is in the below-25,000 AADT range, while 81 in Virginia's at 25-to-50 (looks like it may even be higher between Harrisonburg and Staunton). Would be interesting to be able to blow the map up; is there a link?


----------



## nerdly_dood

Penn's Woods said:


> It looks to me like there's both a yellow and a yellow-green. As i read the map, everything in states like Wyoming is in the below-25,000 AADT range, while 81 in Virginia's at 25-to-50 (looks like it may even be higher between Harrisonburg and Staunton). Would be interesting to be able to blow the map up; is there a link?


I don't know, but here's some food for thought.

On I-81, truck traffic often exceeds 25% of the traffic - so if trailers were counted as separate vehicles, I think the I-81 AADT would be much higher.

81 is used as a route to bypass I-95 in the miserable DC area for trucks going from Up North to eastern South Carolina through Florida. Also, when going along Interstate 40 in Tennessee, the interchange with 81 requires that drivers who do not want to stay on I-40 will not merge right - essentially, that I-40-EB becomes I-81-NB without taking any exit ramp. This also applies to 81-SB turning to 40-WB. So essentially it's a straight route from, say, Winchester or Roanoke, directly to Knoxville and beyond, and it's a critical route for freight (sometimes very illegal freight) coming out of Mexico.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A truck has a passenger car-equivalent of about 2 - 2.5 in traffic volumes. 10,000 trucks are the same as 25,000 passenger cars.


----------



## Rail Claimore

nerdly_dood said:


> I don't know, but here's some food for thought.
> 
> On I-81, truck traffic often exceeds 25% of the traffic - so if trailers were counted as separate vehicles, I think the I-81 AADT would be much higher.
> 
> 81 is used as a route to bypass I-95 in the miserable DC area for trucks going from Up North to eastern South Carolina through Florida. Also, when going along Interstate 40 in Tennessee, the interchange with 81 requires that drivers who do not want to stay on I-40 will not merge right - essentially, that I-40-EB becomes I-81-NB without taking any exit ramp. This also applies to 81-SB turning to 40-WB. So essentially it's a straight route from, say, Winchester or Roanoke, directly to Knoxville and beyond, and it's a critical route for freight (sometimes very illegal freight) coming out of Mexico.


It's used for that purpose, sort of as a western alternate route for I-95. But I-81 and parts of I-40, I-75, I-24, and I-59 were really built to connect the Northeast with New Orleans and the Gulf Coast. That route was intentionally designed as a replacement for US 11. The Shenandoah Valley is the only relatively flat route through the Appalachian chain south of Upstate NY. It's a natural transportation corridor.


----------



## Penn's Woods

And talking of New England, "New England" and "Upstate NY" used to show up on I-95 and I-87 respectively in the Bronx and upper Manhattan; they've been replaced by "New Haven" and "Albany."


----------



## Penn's Woods

Pittsburgh newspaper's take on the renumbering from 279 to 376 (a year ago, when it was announced).

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09162/976662-147.stm


----------



## mgk920

siamu maharaj said:


> I love that highway. I've driven during rush hour and it's actually not that bad.


The northbound Dan Ryan (I-90/94) from there to the Circle interchange (I-290) is one of my top favorite 'scenic' sections of the I-system, too - the downtown Chicago skyline is just STUNNING from it, especially at night.

:cheers:

Mike


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

siamu maharaj said:


> Dallas or LA?


Dallas


----------



## siamu maharaj

mgk920 said:


> The northbound Dan Ryan (I-90/94) from there to the Circle interchange (I-290) is one of my top favorite 'scenic' sections of the I-system, too - the downtown Chicago skyline is just STUNNING from it, especially at night.
> 
> :cheers:
> 
> Mike


Yeah. Nothing comes close to driving on that stretch. I'll be there agian in 2 weeks!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

How about the Eisenhower inbound? I'd say the view is equally impressive.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Hey, the Schuylkill's not bad either!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dancoe/4492077414/

Trying to find one with Boathouse Row and the Art Museum in the foreground of the skyline. It's an old road - 1950s - and has too much traffic, but if I'm out of the city in the evening I'll go out of my way to take the Schuylkill in just for the view.


----------



## Nexis

Penn's Woods said:


> Hey, the Schuylkill's not bad either!
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/dancoe/4492077414/
> 
> Trying to find one with Boathouse Row and the Art Museum in the foreground of the skyline. It's an old road - 1950s - and has too much traffic, but if I'm out of the city in the evening I'll go out of my way to take the Schuylkill in just for the view.


Hopefully Septa gets there act together and restores a few Rail lines to take the pressure off I-76 , US 422 , US 202 , US 30 and I-276


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interstate 70 in Kansas City


----------



## Stuck in Bama

*Birmingham I-65/Corridor X project set to launch Aug. 1*
Published: Monday, July 26, 2010, 7:00 AM

Construction is expected to begin Aug. 1 on the largest road project in Birmingham-area history and the most expensive contract the Alabama Department of Transportation has ever awarded.
The final link between Corridor X and Interstate 65 -- roughly 1½-miles with 14 ramps and 14 bridges -- will all but complete Alabama's roughly 96-mile portion of the Birmingham-to-Memphis interstate that will be known as Interstate 22.
The $168.6 million project is a mammoth undertaking that will produce a four-level, 85-foot-tall interchange after workers tunnel under I-65 to allow I-22 to run beneath the existing interstate. ALDOT officials said the finished product will be similar to the I-459/65 interchange in Hoover.

"It's tremendously complicated," said ALDOT division engineer Brian Davis. "It's absolutely the most complex project we've ever had in the Birmingham area. We're looking forward to the challenge."
Worker safety, avoiding traffic disruptions on I-65 and finishing the work on time were all things that had to be considered during the planning phase, Davis said.
"This project has a lot of complicated scenarios. It took a lot of planning," he said.
Atlanta-based Archer Western Contractors submitted the low bid of $168.6 million to perform the work. ALDOT typically spends about $650 million each year on construction projects statewide, Davis said.
While the interchange is a record-setting contract, Davis noted that past contracts might equal that amount if adjusted for inflation.
ALDOT director Joe McInnes said the project, and another simultaneous project that will build a 3,000-foot stretch of road linking I-22 to U.S. 31 in north Birmingham, will bring the long-awaited completion to the Corridor X project.
"It opens up a transportation corridor that has been 40 years in the making," McInnes said.
The U.S. 31/I-22 interchange, which has a preliminary cost estimate between $15 million and $20 million, will be let for bid in 2011, but should be completed in 2014, the same deadline for completing the I-22/65 interchange, Davis said.

What's involved

Here are some of the features of the interchange:
The I-65 portion of the interchange will be modified to include a total of eight lanes -- four northbound and four southbound. Currently there are six lanes at that point.
At least four additional lanes will be added to roads running parallel to the new eight-lane section of I-65. The two northbound and two southbound lanes of these roads will be used as merging lanes, allowing drivers to get on or off I-65 and I-22 without slowing traffic.
A ramp will be built heading north from 41st Street North that will connect to the westbound I-22 on-ramp.
A ramp taking drivers from I-65 north to the I-22 west on-ramp and a separate connection that will link I-65 north to U.S. 31 in Fultondale.
A ramp from I-22 east to I-65 that will connect to a northbound road. Another similar road will be built on I-65 south.
A southbound road will allow drivers at the U.S. 31 interchange in Fultondale to connect to a ramp to I-22 west. From there, drivers can continue south and reconnect with I-65 south. Traffic entering there should be limited to the traffic accessing I-65 south from U.S. 31.
A ramp will connect I-22 east with I-65 south.
The work, which must be completed by Oct. 15, 2014, will be performed in three or four individual phases to prevent traffic problems, said Steve Hausler, project manager for Archer Western Contractors.
The first part of the project will link Daniel Payne Drive to I-65 North. After that, work will be done on northbound I-65. While that is happening, northbound traffic will shift to I-65 south.
After the north lanes are done, I-65 south will be worked on and southbound traffic will shift over to the new northbound lanes. Three lanes will be open at all times, except for some occasions that will require late-night lane closures.

Few delays seen

ALDOT spokeswoman Linda Crockett said lanes will be built outside the areas already open to traffic. Traffic will be shifted onto the new lanes, she said. Corridor X now ends at Coalburg Road.
"It's a lot of work concentrated in one area. There'll be occasional lane closures, but (traffic) shouldn't be much different than it is now," Hausler said.
Despite the large scale of the project, Hausler said he is hopeful Archer Western will have it finished "a year early if everything is perfect," Hausler said.
It's not the first time the company has tackled a record-breaking project.
Archer Western is performing the $218 million widening of a 14.3-mile section of I-85 in Coweta and Meriwether counties in Georgia.
That project, the single largest in the Georgia Department of Transportation's history, includes removal and replacement of two overpasses, construction of a new ramp bridge, modifications to three bridges and partial removal and reconstruction of 12 other bridges.

http://media.al.com/spotnews/photo/726interchangejpg-04b358460fbde99c_large.jpg


----------



## urbanlover

^^

Sounds like that is going to be an awesome interchange I-22

Drive down US 78/ Future I-22


----------



## Professor L Gee

Nice to see the progress on I-22.

Is it gonna remain signed with US 78 when it's completed? IMO they should switch 78 back to its original routing once I-22 fully opens.


----------



## ttownfeen




----------



## Nexis

Today i took a trip to Jersey City....via I-80 / Turnpike

*I-80 East 
*

















































































*Crossing the Hackensack River
*


















*End of I-80
*









*I-95 South
*


















*New Jersey Turnpike Begin , Eastern Spur
*



























*Crossing the Hackensack River again with the City of Newark skyline
*



























*Crossing the Northeast Corridor , PATH & Passaic River
*









*City of Newark Skyline
*



























*On the 14 Interchange Slip road
*




































*Up Next the NJ Turnpike , Jersey City Connection or I-78
*

~Corey


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^So it's very clearly marked that I-80 ends where it meets 95, not a few miles farther east, at the bridge toll plaza. For years, I was under the impression that they overlapped for a few miles, if only because traffic reporters used to talk about "80/95".... Was it always that clearly marked? For that matter, was that always officially the case? Going the other direction, doesn't 80 show up as soon as you come off the bridge?

I note Google Maps has 80 ending at 95. But they think the Turnpike goes up to Fort Lee.


----------



## Nexis

Yes it ends at 95 , but on some maps it goes to the Toll Gate at the GWB.

*I-78 East in Port Newark
*




























Crossing Newark Bay - you can NJ 440 / Bayonne Bridge in the distance



















*Entering the NJ Gold Coast / City of Bayonne
*


















*Exit 14 A NJ 440 Bayonne , Port Bayonne & Cruise Port
*



















*Entering the City of Jersey City
*










*JC Skyline pops into view
*



























*Exit 14B - Liberty State Park , Greenville , Liberty Harbor , Liberty Golf Course > Jersey City
*




























*Exit 14C - Liberty Science Center , Liberty State Park , Hudson Bergen LRT Park & Ride , Bergen-Layette > Jersey City*



















*Jersey City Skyline & Downtown JC
*


















*Journal SQ > Jersey City
*



























*Exiting @ Christopher Columbus DR
*









*~Corey*


----------



## ddki39

The inbound Kennedy is also very scenic. Great views!


----------



## Stuck in Bama

Professor L Gee said:


> Nice to see the progress on I-22.
> 
> Is it gonna remain signed with US 78 when it's completed? IMO they should switch 78 back to its original routing once I-22 fully opens.


No once this interchange is completed it will be signed I-22 only. US 78 could possibly be de-commissioned west of downtown Birmingham, from wikipedia

"Due to the construction of Interstate 22 along the US-78 corridor west of Birmingham, part of US-78 is temporarily State Route 5 only, since that part of the new I-22/US-78/SR-4 is not completed. US-78 roughly parallels Interstate 20 from Birmingham east to the Georgia state line.

The only section of State Route 4 that is signed is along portions the completed sections of future I-22 (Corridor X, mainly west of Jasper. As of December 2007, Corridor X is open from the Mississippi State line through the West Jefferson community, rejoining the old alignment near Graysville. As of January 2009, the old routing of US 78 west of Graysville to Jasper is now signed only as AL 5. *There is a possibility that upon completion of I-22 that US 78 may be decommissioned west of Birmingham. The stretch from I-20/59 at the Arkadelphia Road exit in Birmingham to Jasper would continue to be signed as AL 5. West of Jasper, the old US 78 is already signed as AL 118 to Guin and then from Guin northward to I-22 at Hamilton is signed as US 43/US 278".*


----------



## Penn's Woods

They're going to add tolls to the I-95 bridge between Pennsylvania and New Jersey (the one north of Trenton, which is near the central-Jersey gap in 95 - actually won't be part of 95 once 95 is rerouted onto the Pennsylvania and New Jersey turnpikes). (It's actually not a done deal, but close.)

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/fron..._one_of_last_free_Delaware_River_bridges.html

This had been rumored for years. What I don't get is, why create a public-private partnership? The bridge is owned by the Delaware River Joint Toll Bridge Commission, which already charges tolls on other bridges along the upper Delaware. They could just start charging tolls themselves, I would think; in fact I don't know why they weren't doing so already.

Won't affect a lot of long-distance traffic, because of the location. I cross this bridge regularly, traveling between home in Philadelphia and my parents, who are in northern New Jersey but far enough west and south that using the Turnpike or even US 1 is a bit out of the way. But there are lots of free bridges along the Delaware north of Trenton, so it's easy to avoid.

Location:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=40.258569,-74.848137&spn=0.058557,0.109692&z=13


----------



## ttownfeen

Jersey City has a remarkable skyline. Must suck to be overshadowed by New York City.


----------



## CNGL

Xusein said:


> HOV lanes are usually not very utilized here in the Hartford area. Both I-91 north of the city, and I-84 east of it have HOV lanes for significant sections. I did notice that they are used heavily by buses though, to deal with the traffic during the rush hour.


I like those signs! They look like the Spanish ones for road (But with lowercase letters)


----------



## Paddington

HOV lanes are rare to nonexistent in the Midwest.


----------



## Bartolo

urbanlover said:


> I-696 sometimes jokingly referred to the Detroit's Autobahn due to the seemingly lack of speed limits by drivers


I have to agree with that. I was doing 130kmh (80 mph) in the left lane during rush hour, with less than a car length in front and behind. It was insane, and I thought the 401 people drove fast in heavy traffic.


----------



## Xusein

ChrisZwolle said:


> Some areas have HOV restrictions only during rush hour.


Yes, I noticed some do. Minneapolis has HOT lanes, and they are closed outside rush hour.

However, there are no hour restrictions here.


----------



## nerdly_dood

Xusein said:


> Yes, I noticed some do. Minneapolis has HOT lanes, and they are closed outside rush hour.
> 
> However, there are no hour restrictions here.


DC HOV lanes, most notably (IIRC) interstate 95, are in the center of the highway and reversible. In the morning they're going into the city, and in the afternoon they go the opposite way. At noon and midnight the gates close and police check it to make sure the lanes are entirely empty, before changing directions.


----------



## urbanlover

Bartolo said:


> I have to agree with that. I was doing 130kmh (80 mph) in the left lane during rush hour, with less than a car length in front and behind. It was insane, and I thought the 401 people drove fast in heavy traffic.


Yeah Metro Detroit has pefected the bumper to bumper and 80 mph rush hour


----------



## FM 2258

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think the reason HOV is working in the US is that there is a lack of public transport. HOV probably substitutes that. HOV never worked in Europe, a trial in the Netherlands was a major flop.


Exactly. Here in Austin it's either a 5 hour walk or a 15 minute drive to work for me....or a taxi which is a ridiculous option financially.


----------



## 2000_Watts

Paddington said:


> HOV lanes are rare to nonexistent in the Midwest.



Oddly enough, I've seen them in Memphis, of all places... Coming down I-55 in the far south of the city headed toward Mississippi


----------



## Basincreek

LA is probably going to have the most extensive HOV network anywhere soon. They keep building new ones along with those sexy HOV to HOV flyovers.


----------



## Reaperducer

The whole HOV/HOT/Toll Road concept is one of the things that Houston gets right. The toll roads are separate from the freeways, but run parallel to them, so you have a choice of paying to use them, or to go slower on the regular interstate.

The toll roads are private property (owned by the Harris County Toll Road Authority) so they can have higher speed limits than the interstates (and once did when the state limit was lower).

But I think the parallelism is the most important part. Unlike in other cities where you MUST pay a toll to use a road that you've already paid for with your tax dollars, in Houston you can CHOOSE to pay a little extra to go faster.

I am philisophically opposed to mandatory tolls (except on bridges and tunnels and such). The Civil War wasn't only about slavery. It was also about a whole host of economic issues. One of them was how to develop the nation's transportation infrastructure.

The southern states believed in a system of private toll roads connectiting cities. The northern states believed in a free federal road system to promote commerce. The North won the war, but we're rapidly slipping back into the Southern mode of thinking.

Poets and musicians used to write about the freedom of the open road in America. There's not too much free about it anymore.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A cool night video of I-110 in Los Angeles. You can see a double HOV-lane here, I believe that's quite a rare feature.


----------



## Nexis

You mean the top viaduct? Thats a bus lane , form what i heard its also designed badly....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ You didn't watch the video, did you?


----------



## Nexis

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ You didn't watch the video, did you?


I did and i know about the Harbor Transitway.......


----------



## Paddington

2000_Watts said:


> Oddly enough, I've seen them in Memphis, of all places... Coming down I-55 in the far south of the city headed toward Mississippi


Memphis is not the Midwest. :bash:


----------



## 2000_Watts

Paddington said:


> Memphis is not the Midwest. :bash:



This is true, and I know this. But it's also not LA, Texas, Atlanta, or a sun-belt boom city where you normally see highways with HOV lanes... 

I was simply trying to point out that I was suprised to see them there.


----------



## 2000_Watts

Then there are those that would even argue that Memphis isn't even the South, but rather the Mid-South...


----------



## HAWC1506

mgk920 said:


> That's heading eastbound out of Seattle, WA.
> 
> Mike


What WSDOT is doing is adding HOV lanes to the outer roadway. The original configuration was:

[3 Westbound GP lanes] [Median] [2 reversible HOV lanes] [Median] [3 Eastbound GP lanes]

With light rail now being built for the corridor, the center reversible lanes will be converted to light rail tracks while one HOV lane will be added to each direction. So the number of lanes are maintained, and HOV service is more consistent (as opposed to Eastbound having HOV while Westbound doesn't). So the future configuration will be:

[3 WB GP lanes + 1 HOV lane] [Median] [Light Rail] [Median] [3 EB GP lanes + 1 HOV lane]


----------



## FM 2258

ChrisZwolle said:


> A cool night video of I-110 in Los Angeles. You can see a double HOV-lane here, I believe that's quite a rare feature.


That was a great video! Downtown LA looks nice at night. :cheers:


----------



## desertpunk

*75/121 construction in Dallas









http://www.flickr.com/photos/fatguyinalittlecoat/

Some Westpark Tollway purple in Houston









http://www.flickr.com/photos/fatguyinalittlecoat/

US 59 Houston*









http://www.flickr.com/photos/fatguyinalittlecoat/


----------



## Tom 958

$65m seems incredibly cheap. :banana:

I wonder if the new Interstate will end at I-435 or be cosigned to a junction with one of the mainline Interstates.


----------



## desertpunk

Freeway interchange Chandler Arizona (Loop 202 and Price Fwy)


----------



## Xusein

That is pretty sweet, looks like they paid lots of detail into aesthetics.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, what can you make out of sand and concrete? :lol:


----------



## ManRegio

A lot of space wasted. Why don't they built a Regular Stack?. It would have been less massive and with the same or superior results.


----------



## geogregor

ManRegio said:


> A lot of space wasted. Why don't they built a Regular Stack?. It would have been less massive and with the same or superior results.


I don't think space is an issue in Arizona :lol:


----------



## brewerfan386

from: weau.com


> *State predicts gates at virtually all I-94 on-ramps in 6-10 years*
> You could soon see more gates at freeway on-ramps as the state tries to keep drivers safe during emergencies.
> Reporter: ​Andrew Fefer
> 
> While he only uses I-94 two or three times a month, David Stratton says he's familiar with the reason why crews put in gates at the on-ramp from State Highway 93 a few years ago.
> “South Dakota, North Dakota have had that for a long time, and that just makes all the sense in the world,” he said. Now he's looking forward to the construction of more like it.
> “Often times this does relate to weather, when we have our heavy snows and stuff,” said Lieutenant Jeff Lorentz of the Wisconsin State Patrol. He says the state will putting four of them at the U.S. Highway 53 interchange next year.
> “It's our most complicated interchange that we have, and typically to close that interchange, it takes six officers,” he said.
> Then he hopes more go up in metro areas, and at interchanges that road crews work on.
> “If we can reduce the traffic flow whether its a haz-mat incident, or again, a traffic accident, or even an emergency medical situation, it only enhances the life safety,” said Deputy Chief Lyle Koerner of the Eau Claire Fire Department.
> The DOT says the new gates would have an arm that comes down, similar to what you would see at a railroad crossing. They're not automated, and Lorentz says they're worth the $9,000 to $14,000 estimate the state says it will pay for each gate.
> “The payback is very short-term,” Lt. Lorentz said. “Less than five years, probably in three years is when we'll pay back in the labor use alone.”
> “I don't know if I'd really agree with that, but I guess they'll do what they want with their money,” Keelan Gilbertson said. “Whatever our opinions are, they'll still do what they want to do.”
> David says the price doesn't give him sticker-shock.
> “Right now, of course, we're all trying to save money, but sometimes we have to just bite the bullet and go ahead.”
> Even though it is a measure designed to keep freeway drivers from "going ahead" once in a while.
> The DOT says it's also starting to plan for surveillance cameras and electronic signs to tell drivers about changing conditions between Baldwin and Black River Falls. It hasn't released exactly where they would go, when they'd be installed, or how much all that would cost.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Find this article at:
> http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/101435864.html?storySection=story


----------



## mgk920

^^
WisDOT installed these blizzard gates at several US 41 interchanges here in Appleton earlier this year, too.

Yes, I can see why they'd be a long-term better deal than the barricades that I often see stored at various freeway on-ramps, and especially for those interchanges where they are not (each ramp in the latter case needs to tie up at least one police car for the duration for such 'short notice' closures).

Mike


----------



## Rail Claimore

mgk920 said:


> ^^
> WisDOT installed these blizzard gates at several US 41 interchanges here in Appleton earlier this year, too.
> 
> Yes, I can see why they'd be a long-term better deal than the barricades that I often see stored at various freeway on-ramps, and especially for those interchanges where they are not (each ramp in the latter case needs to tie up at least one police car for the duration for such 'short notice' closures).
> 
> Mike


I always wondered what those were. I've never seen any in Illinois.


----------



## zaphod

> I'm not from the USA but looking GE I can see that a lot of the bigger cities in USA have this problem. Large empty patches of land where used to be homes right next to Downtown...





> But you need someone who wants to live in these dense neighborhoods close to downtowns. Most people simply prefer large house with garden than small condo in multistory building. Do you want to force people to live there?


I'm not trying to intentionally derail this thread, I came here to look for any news on I-49.

But I can't leave this alone.

First off, how big is Atlanta, or Houston, or Dallas? Between 4-5 million people.

Lets make a conservative estimate, that most of the population still wanted to live in the suburbs. But then what if even 1% of the population, perhaps currently living in garden apartment complexes, would be willing to trade in for an urban lifestyle. That would give you between 40,000 and 50,000 people. That may be students, the elderly, gays, singles, who knows, who just want an apartment near things and don't want to worry about a yard, etc.

In the US, maybe an option for revitalizing cities would not be to recreate Manhattan, but look to the outer boroughs of New York or parts of Chicago for inspiration. A mix of closely spaced semi or detached homes and small 3-4 story apartments, with major streets lined with a little larger buildings that have shops and things on the bottom and the occasional midrise. Maybe this is not dense or even urban by European or even Northeastern US standards, but in a sunbelt city it would be something completely different.

Looking at the density of existing places which take this form, it seems like you'd have a density of maybe 10,000 people per square mile. So with 40 to 50k people, that would be about 4 to 5 square miles.

That is not a very large area at all. But go back to Google Earth and measure the size of the downtown adjacent dead zones in a place like Atlanta. I believe it would be completely feasible for the city to infill this space with new housing. What would the benefits be? It would make the city as a whole more attractive, it would dilute the presence of poverty, people who had a stake in a neighborhood would be more vigilant for crime, etc.


----------



## brewerfan386

I-494 and MN-5 (Airport Interchange) in Bloomington, Minnesota; Mall of America is in the background.








(courtesy of "MSPdude". link)


----------



## ttownfeen

Tom 958 said:


> $65m seems incredibly cheap. :banana:
> 
> I wonder if the new Interstate will end at I-435 or be cosigned to a junction with one of the mainline Interstates.


Bella Vista? Is that a city? I've never heard of it. :?


----------



## ttownfeen

ManRegio said:


> A lot of space wasted. Why don't they built a Regular Stack?. It would have been less massive and with the same or superior results.


I think a four-level stack would be unnecessarily more expensive where a three-level stack would be sufficient.


----------



## ImBoredNow

I-270 South going from Frederick towards Urbana Maryland.
cc: Myself


----------



## Nexis

I took sum Interstate shots today in Jersey City , and Manhattan

I-78 Holland Tunnel Approach in Manhattan










Canal Street Entrance 



















Jersey City Holland Tunnel Exit with New Welcome sigh in Newport JC



















Holland Tunnel Portal & Toll gate










Jersey City Skyway / I-78 Liberty state Park in JC



















~Corey


----------



## ttownfeen

*NPR special series: "I-95: The Road Most Travelled"*

This is a special series of news reports about Interstate 95 from NPR. It runs through Labor Day.



> _Interstate 95 may be one of the least romantic roads ever built. But what it lacks in beauty, it makes up for in utility. How has this asphalt Amazon transformed the economy of the Eastern Seaboard?
> _


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129278775


----------



## AUchamps

sotonsi said:


> Atlanta has the eggs-in-one-basket policy, where there's only one freeway - for long distance through and local traffic, heading North-South.
> 
> Parallel freeways would help the traffic, but there's nothing stopping a decent transit line/system being built (as well preferably) to take some of the internal city traffic off the freeway 'network' (in quotes as it's not really a net - just a couple of spokes that diverge and a loop or two).


Well, there is 285.


----------



## AUchamps

mgk920 said:


> ^^
> (I am assuming that those two above maps are of the same scale)
> Also note how the Frankfort-Main area is far, far more densely developed than the Atlanta area - nearly the entire land area on the above map of metro Atlanta is built out with very-low density style development while that map of Frankfort-Main still includes oodles of rural farmland.
> 
> Besides that spread-out low density development within the metro area, I-75/85 in central Atlanta is so wide and carries so much traffic because a freeway that was planned to parallel that one to the east (it was to connect I-675 with GA 400) was never built.
> 
> Also, why is transit such an insignificant part of the metro Atlanta transport scene? Atlanta has a heavy-rail transit system ('MARTA') - BUT - Metro Atlanta has about the worst city vs. suburb political divide of any of the metros anywhere in the USA. Why don't the suburbanites want MARTA rail service? BECAUSE IT SERVES THE CITY OF ATLANTA! Seriously! (I'd tell you a commonly-used wording for the acronym 'MARTA', which means 'Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority', but I'll not to avoid being banned from SSC.)
> 
> hno:
> 
> Mike


Being politically correct, much of the Southern USA cities like Atlanta and Birmingham have a setup like South Africa where the Whites with the majority of money live in one area and the blacks that are socio-economically worse off live in another and up until the last 15-20 years ago, didn't mix with each other in the sense of neighborhoods.

Luckily in both cases, gentrification is taking hold in the Urban areas and in the Suburbs, it's becoming more and more racially mixed.

When it comes to urban comparisons, the Southern USA and South Africa do share many parallels(though thank God that for all that the Jim Crow era was, it never got close to being Apartheid-oppressive).


----------



## diz

*Portland, OR*


----------



## Xusein

brewerfan386 said:


> I-494 and MN-5 (Airport Interchange) in Bloomington, Minnesota; Mall of America is in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (courtesy of "MSPdude". link)


Nice pic. 

I-494 from Route 100 to the airport is a mess for a large % of the day. Almost every time going down it when in the area in the summer, I was in a traffic jam.


----------



## pwalker

diz said:


> *Portland, OR*


Notice how the main I-5 route is mostly traffic-free. This isn't that unusual. The backup is due to underbuilt access from I-5 NB to I-84 EB. I know of no plans to improve this connection. In addition, the whole section of freeway is ugly and built to utilitarian standards. I believe there are some who would like to rebuild this entire section somewhat to the east, (reclaiming the river waterfront) and mostly underground, but with today's budgets won't happen anytime soon.


----------



## architect77

Live streaming video of I-40 in Raleigh-Durham, NC:
http://www.wral.com/traffic/video/6763278/


----------



## brewerfan386

Oddball interchange in Chesterfield County, VA








(courtesy of http://www.roadstothefuture.com)


----------



## ttownfeen

Is that I-95 at Pocahontas Parkway near Richmond? It's "odd" because the bridge carrying Pocahontas Pkwy over the James River needs to have an usually high clearance for an inland bridge because the river is navigable to ocean-going vessels all the way to Richmond!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yep, I've seen videos of that interchange, it's huge. The fly-overs must be one of the tallest in the country.


----------



## nestea_lemon

I hear they are building a third highway loop around Houston. It's a State Highway 99 or Grand Parkway.

More info and detailed map here: http://www.grandpky.com/segments/default.asp










They are also expanding Highway 290.










http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7647763
http://www.my290.com



> The overall vision for the US 290 Program includes:
> 
> * Freeway capacity reconstruction and widening from IH 610 to FM 2920 to create:
> o Five general-purpose lanes in each direction from IH 610 to just west of SH 6, plus auxiliary lanes where appropriate
> o Four general-purpose lanes in each direction from just west of SH 6 to near the proposed SH 99/Grand Parkway, plus auxiliary lanes
> o Three general-purpose lanes in each direction from near the proposed SH 99/Grand Parkway to the west study limit, plus auxiliary lanes
> o Two- or three-lane frontage roads in each direction throughout the corridor
> 
> ALSO:
> 
> * A four-lane, two-way managed lanes facility along Hempstead Tollway from IH 610 to the proposed SH 99/Grand Parkway
> * Two non-tolled frontage road lanes in each direction to be reconstructed along Hempstead Tollway from IH 610 to Beltway 8
> * US 290 METRO HOV operations moved to the Hempstead Tollway managed toll lanes
> * Proposed high-capacity transit corridor located along Hempstead Tollway
> * Bicycle and pedestrian improvements


Proposed expansion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggzmQo_qa0U
Beltway 8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-wmD_Sk0-E

Any other Houston roads planned for expansion?


----------



## ttownfeen

I wonder what it's like to live in such a sprawled-out city as Houston. Is it even possible to get from any point to another in less than an hour?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Houston was actually the only city to reduce congestion between 1990 and 2005 or so. But you're right, the city is huge, but then again, the population is almost 6 million, which would be a world city with that size. The only thing different from east coast cities is that there are no dense residential areas at all. Everything are detached homes, because the city developed much later than east coast cities. Houston had only 300,000 inhabitants in 1930.


----------



## Rail Claimore

ttownfeen said:


> I wonder what it's like to live in such a sprawled-out city as Houston. Is it even possible to get from any point to another in less than an hour?


Houston, with its two (soon to be three) beltways, is actually less sprawled than Atlanta. Beltway 8 is only a few miles farther from downtown Houston than I-285 is from downtown Atlanta. Houston is big, but you can get from one end to the other in about an hour during most times of the day outside rush hour.


----------



## mgk920

Rail Claimore said:


> Houston, with its two (soon to be three) beltways, is actually less sprawled than Atlanta. Beltway 8 is only a few miles farther from downtown Houston than I-285 is from downtown Atlanta. Houston is big, but you can get from one end to the other in about an hour during most times of the day outside rush hour.


One does have to remember that (at least within the city limits of the City of Houston), there is no municipal zoning law, so residential developers have a fairly wide latitude on how densely they can build their developments whereas in the Atlanta area, the city and its suburban areas are heavily zoned and those jurisdictions have very low legal unit density limits.

Thus, to me, it is no surprise that metro Houston is more dense and less 'sprawled out' than metro Atlanta.

Mike


----------



## Xusein

I wonder if this third beltway, if actually completed, will be built to Interstate standard. The name "Grand Parkway" is obvious, but I think with growth in the area, it can't simply be a narrow highway. Plus, would be nice to see a new Interstate designation. 

Also, I read once that the Beltway 8 tollway is not even completed on the Northeast side of the city, it's just frontage roads.


----------



## Rail Claimore

Xusein said:


> I wonder if this third beltway, if actually completed, will be built to Interstate standard. The name "Grand Parkway" is obvious, but I think with growth in the area, it can't simply be a narrow highway. Plus, would be nice to see a new Interstate designation.
> 
> Also, I read once that the Beltway 8 tollway is not even completed on the Northeast side of the city, it's just frontage roads.


Probably not fully interstate standard, but it will be limited access like Beltway 8 eventually. The Grand Parkway is being built with future limited-access upgrades in mind: meaning there are no access rights to the road itself to private businesses or small residential side streets, sufficient right of way exists from the beginning, and all intersections that are signalized are a certain distance apart and built with future overpasses in mind. Take a look at the southern half of the existing section of the road in Ft Bend County and you'll see what I mean.

That Northeast section of Beltway 8 is being upgraded to limited access as we speak. The new limited-access toll lanes (which will basically be the Sam Houston Tollway NE section) are under construction now. I think it's supposed to be complete next year.


----------



## Shezan

US interchange are absolutely amazing


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The term "longest planned beltway in the world" is quite dubious.

Some projects I know (motorway/freeway status);

* Центральная кольцевая автомобильная дорога (CKAD) - Moscow: 522 km
* State Route 840 - Nashville: 287 km
* Grand Parkway - Houston: 274 km

The current longest full beltway is the A10 around Berlin, Germany, which is 196 km long. The M25 around London is slightly shorter at 188 km.


----------



## michael_siberia

ChrisZwolle said:


> Some projects I know (motorway/freeway status);
> 
> * Центральная кольцевая автомобильная дорога (CKAD) - Moscow: 522 km
> * State Route 840 - Nashville: 287 km
> * Grand Parkway - Houston: 274 km


one more:
* Big Beltway of Warsaw (DK50/62, planned upgrade to freeway): about 300 km


----------



## CNGL

Topic for beltways:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=744080

This is for US I-states, like I-99 and I-238.
PS: Once, I drawn a 2nd beltway for Washington DC and called it I-666 .


----------



## brewerfan386

New BGS arrows 



















(both are coutresy of: "ssoworld")
Those arrows look so wimpy. :lol:


----------



## ttownfeen

So weird. And a waste of sign space.


----------



## sonysnob

^Really? You don't like them?

I think the new arrows do a much nicer job of explaining how a "decision lane" is going to split then the current signage.

I'll admit the ramp signage seems like overkill.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They're clearer indeed, but I prefer the German style-arrows. They just look better and require less space.


----------



## Paddington

It looks weak, like something you'd see in Europe.


----------



## ttownfeen

They could be one-half that size and be equally as visible and legible. That makes them a waste of sign space.


----------



## sonysnob

Paddington said:


> It looks weak, like something you'd see in Europe.


I know, highway signage should be masculine and powerful. With such weak legible signage, the communists will surely be invading any day now.


----------



## brewerfan386

The arrows look too long and could be bit thicker. IMHO


----------



## siamu maharaj

I had no idea people actually had opinions on arrows' thickness! I don't see anything wrong with these ones.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-10 Katy Freeway, Houston, Texas*

The I-10 in West Houston has recently been widened to as much as 24 lanes, when taking frontage roads into account. West of I-610, there are 16 through lanes, and 8 frontage road lanes. The carriageways are split up in a general purpose section and a toll/HOV section. 










4+8+8+4


----------



## Tom 958

Yesterday I drove I-16 from US 25-301 near Statesboro to its eastern end in Macon. There's an 18 mile section (mile 13-31 IIRC) that was completed in the early '70s on which the concrete pavement of the right lanes is badly deteriorated. At present the left lanes are closed and a wide concrete left shoulder is being installed. The new shoulder looks to be eight feet wide, two thirds the width of a traffic lane, and the slope toward the median is very visible. I think that there'll be a second phase in which the right lane and shoulder will be removed and replaced, with the new left shoulder providing room for a detour lane and barricades while the work progresses.

Cable rails are being installed on Georgia's Interstates, but none have been installed here as yet. Perhaps their installation has been deferred in order to maintain cross-median access for construction crews during the next phase.

I don't recall having seen anything like this before, though the recent reconstruction of I-85 from Newnan to Fairburn has added a new lane (not opened to traffic!) on the left and removed and replaced the original two right lanes, leaving intact the second lane from the left, which was built in the mid '90's.


----------



## siamu maharaj

I took I-74 from Greensburg (it's between Indianapolis and Cincy). The road's in pretty bad shape for most part. The rest areas are pretty good though, better than the few others I've stopped at.


----------



## FM 2258

Paddington said:


> It looks weak, like something you'd see in Europe.


I agree. I don't like the look.


----------



## Nexis

Some photos i took of the NYC Holland Tunnel approach.

7th Avenue & Vandam Street 



















7th Avenue & Broome Street










7th Avenue Portal










7th & Canal Street










Offical end of I-78 / Holland Tunnel exit loop


----------



## lpioe

Nexis said:


>


I don't get the 'only' in the sign.
Only what?


----------



## Tom 958

lpioe said:


> I don't get the 'only' in the sign.
> Only what?


It means that both of the indicated lanes go _only_ to Lower Manhattan, rather than one being an optional lane from which you can reach the Holland Tunnel. On a freeway the sign would say "EXIT ONLY," but this is just a city street.

EDIT: That introduces the obvious question: Why doesn't this sign:









have one, too? I don't know. 

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=...96ZMy3tm8i8GApKLLuSWEw&cbp=12,340.86,,0,-3.55


----------



## Koesj

Tom 958 said:


> Yesterday I drove I-16 from US 25-301 near Statesboro to its eastern end in Macon. There's an 18 mile section (mile 13-31 IIRC) that was completed in the early '70s on which the concrete pavement of the right lanes is badly deteriorated. At present the left lanes are closed and a wide concrete left shoulder is being installed. The new shoulder looks to be eight feet wide, two thirds the width of a traffic lane, and the slope toward the median is very visible. I think that there'll be a second phase in which the right lane and shoulder will be removed and replaced, with the new left shoulder providing room for a detour lane and barricades while the work progresses.
> 
> Cable rails are being installed on Georgia's Interstates, but none have been installed here as yet. Perhaps their installation has been deferred in order to maintain cross-median access for construction crews during the next phase.
> 
> I don't recall having seen anything like this before, though the recent reconstruction of I-85 from Newnan to Fairburn has added a new lane (not opened to traffic!) on the left and removed and replaced the original two right lanes, leaving intact the second lane from the left, which was built in the mid '90's.


I drove past this area yesterday and considering the way it has been set up I guess construction will go pretty slow. I'd rather have them set up a 4+0 system and move the site up- or downstream a couple of times. The reversal lanes could be written off as a hurricane relief expense 

Funny thing with us driving this stretch within only 24 hrs. or so since it was my first time in the US and the only driving I had to do was getting to ATL from Savannah.

Was pretty impressed with road quality btw., how does GA compare to other states? Jersey seemed downtrodden.


----------



## Rail Claimore

Koesj said:


> I drove past this area yesterday and considering the way it has been set up I guess construction will go pretty slow. I'd rather have them set up a 4+0 system and move the site up- or downstream a couple of times. The reversal lanes could be written off as a hurricane relief expense
> 
> Funny thing with us driving this stretch within only 24 hrs. or so since it was my first time in the US and the only driving I had to do was getting to ATL from Savannah.
> 
> Was pretty impressed with road quality btw., how does GA compare to other states? Jersey seemed downtrodden.


Georgia has some of the best-maintained roads of any state in the country, it's easy to fall asleep while driving on them.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

I think Tennessee has some of the best maintained highways in the country.


----------



## dl3000

Tom 958 said:


> It means that both of the indicated lanes go _only_ to Lower Manhattan, rather than one being an optional lane from which you can reach the Holland Tunnel. On a freeway the sign would say "EXIT ONLY," but this is just a city street.
> 
> EDIT: That introduces the obvious question: Why doesn't this sign]


I think it is because at that point you still have the chance to change lanes whereas there are pylons where there is an ONLY on the sign. In California, the ONLY frequently shows on the sign when the lane lines become thicker, which indicates that the lanes will be breaking away shortly.


----------



## nerdly_dood

I-275westcoastfl said:


> I think Tennessee has some of the best maintained highways in the country.


From what I hear from certain gray-haired sources, they appear to have swapped places with Virginia. (This might have happened through the 80s... not sure when, but before my time)


----------



## Tom 958

Koesj said:


> I drove past this area yesterday and considering the way it has been set up I guess construction will go pretty slow. I'd rather have them set up a 4+0 system and move the site up- or downstream a couple of times. The reversal lanes could be written off as a hurricane relief expense


With as little traffic as I-16 carries, it'd probably be a good idea to go to 1+1 on one roadway while the other was rebuilt.

I-16 used to be regarded as a joke because of the tiny traffic volumes it carried and the consequent lack of services. That plus the fact that the first completed major section was in the middle. hno:

I still don't like it, and I take state highways and an hour's worth of I-20 to go between Statesboro and my house in Lawrenceville (according to Google Maps, it's shorter by distance, and any chance of rush hour traffic trashes the supposed time advantage of taking Interstates), but I have to admit that it doesn't seem as brutal as it used to. There's enough traffic to keep me awake, and enough tweaks to the highway over time to pique my interest as a roadgeek.



> Funny thing with us driving this stretch within only 24 hrs. or so since it was my first time in the US and the only driving I had to do was getting to ATL from Savannah.


The day before, I drove between Statesboro and Savannah. :banana:



> Was pretty impressed with road quality btw., how does GA compare to other states? Jersey seemed downtrodden.


I don't get around much, but I don't see much difference compared to our neighboring states. OTOH, Georgia accomplishes what it does with a ridiculously low fuel tax.


----------



## ttownfeen

I-16 is probably more important for freight carriage than passenger traffic.


----------



## Xusein

Interesting article from the NY Times about the US's only totally metric interstate, I-19.



> *Metric Interstate Divides Arizonans*
> By MARC LACEY
> Published: September 14, 2010
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Metric signs direct drivers heading south on Interstate 19 in Santa Cruz County, Ariz.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interstate 19 in southern Arizona is a metric-only highway.
> 
> GREEN VALLEY, Ariz. — It is not the mountains or the cactuses that stand out most while driving Interstate 19 from the Mexican border to Tucson. It’s the signs.
> 
> Distance along I-19 is measured in kilometers, just as it is in Mexico. That means highway markers advise that there are three kilometers until the next gas station, four until the next rest stop, seven until the next desert town.
> 
> But the distinctive signs’ days may be, well, numbered.
> 
> The Arizona Department of Transportation says the 400 signs along the I-19’s 100 kilometers are too old and need to be replaced. The new signs, officials say, would be like all the others in the state and would indicate distance in miles. Exit numbers would be reconfigured as well.
> 
> A throwback to an American experiment with the metric system in the early 1980s that did not get far off the ground, the signs not only indicate the number of kilometers to the next exit, but also the exit numbers themselves coincide with the number of kilometers from Nogales, which abuts the border.
> 
> “It’s a bit different,” acknowledged Jim DiGiacomo, executive director of the Green Valley-Sahuarita Chamber of Commerce, who has been driving I-19 since the highway was completed in the late 1970s.
> 
> If the signs are changed to miles, that would mean that the Inn at San Ignacio, in the retirement community of Green Valley, would no longer be off Exit 56.
> 
> “You’d think it wouldn’t be a big deal, but it is,” said the inn’s owner, Jim Green, who wants the metric signs to stay put. “Think about how much money my company has spent directing people to Exit 56. Think about the literature, the brochures, the tour books.”
> 
> Some who live along I-19 do not particularly care for the signs, saying they look foreign, are confusing and serve no purpose now that the United States has decided not to give an inch to the metric system.
> 
> State officials had originally planned to use $1.5 million in federal stimulus money to replace the signs, prompting Sean Hannity, the conservative Fox News commentator, to lampoon the project last year as one of the most wasteful uses of taxpayer dollars.
> 
> It was local opposition to the changeover along I-19, however, that prompted the state to slow the process and miss the March 2 deadline to spend the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act money on the overhaul. The project, which the state calls a “safety priority” because the old signs are not reflective enough at night, is now suspended.
> 
> “We know there are diverse opinions about the current signs,” said Timothy Tait, a spokesman for the Transportation Department, indicating that a decision on the I-19 signs would have to be made in the “short term.”
> 
> State transportation officials had come up with what they thought was a compromise: converting the signs to miles but also making note of the old exit numbers. So the sign for the new Exit 43, on Duval Mine Road in Sahuarita, would also have indicated “Old Exit 69.”
> 
> That approach, state officials said, would have given businesses plenty of time to update their addresses.
> 
> But some supporters of the metric signs bring up another argument for keeping them in place: the idiosyncratic signs help put the communities along I-19, which include Rio Rico, Tubac and Amado and the San Xavier Indian Reservation, on the map.
> 
> The U.S. Metric Association, a group based in California that advocates conversion to the metric system, has tallied numerous metric signs around the country, most near the borders with Canada and Mexico. But I-19 may be the only Interstate highway that is almost completely metric, making it stand out from all the other stretches of concrete crisscrossing the country.
> 
> “I’ve been in the hotel business since 1997,” Mr. Green said, “and I’ve been asked by my guests thousands of times about the metric signs. They aren’t complaining. They are intrigued.”
> 
> He said he knew of no drivers who had overshot their desired exit because they were not aware that a kilometer is equal to 0.6 miles. “Someone may think they have five miles to go and they have less than five miles, but so what?” Mr. Green said.
> 
> I-19 is one of the nation’s shortest Interstates but one still lined with attractions. There is a decommissioned Titan II intercontinental ballistic missile at Exit 69 that tourists wearing hard hats can inspect in its underground silo. There is the Desert Diamond Casino 11 kilometers to the north. And 34 kilometers from the border is the artist community of Tubac, home to a Spanish fort dating to 1752.
> 
> “We’re used to the signs,” said Mr. DiGiacomo, the business leader. “We did a survey, and most of our members think they should stay the way they are. Leave well enough alone. We think it would cause more confusion if they changed it.”


Link


----------



## Nexis

What i waste of tax payer $$$$ , spend it on something else.hno:


----------



## Haljackey

Why not compromise and make "bilingual signs"? They would show both metric and imperial measurements so it wouldn't confuse people.

The USA is like, 1 of 3 remaining countries that does not use the metric system? Perhaps dual signage is a good way to start shifting to the norm.

Then again I know very little about the metric Vs. imperial debate. I hate conversions, so using one system is a plus, at least in my opinion.


----------



## urbanlover

Nexis said:


> What i waste of tax payer $$$$ , spend it on something else.hno:


What's wasteful about replacing out of date signs? 

It was local opposition to the changeover along I-19, however, that prompted the state to slow the process and miss the March 2 deadline to spend the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act money on the overhaul. The project, which the state calls a “safety priority” because the old signs are not reflective enough at night, is now suspended.


----------



## kingchef

i began reading this thread from the first response until i reached #2 and saw the response. first, i realized that the validity of the argument was w/out merit simply on the basis of the violation of federal government mandates regarding the violation of constitutional rights based on race, creed, color, national origin, ethnicity, etc. consequently, as these are mandated protected classes, the premise was already in its argument. if it were not for this argument, i think it could be a partial---or at least a workable version for the current quagmire facing the city of memphis regarding the use of city thoroughfares by suburbanites into and out of the city for work, entertainment, and other reasons. as they are suburbnites, and do not pay the same tax structure as the citizens of memphis, their taxes are much lower, but they enjoy the many 12 lane expressways into and out of the city daily. tolls have been suggested as a means to collect revenue from those who fail to hold a city identification card indicating their taxation in both the city and the county. perhaps, even though this subject is not on point, someone might have experienced something similar or something a bit more fair to all in the city proper, the county, and the metro in general. shelby county is not a consolidated government, and therefore taxes are lower for county residents. residents in the city proper pay both city and county taxes, and commuters living in 7 additional counties---2 in tn, in addition to shelby, 4 in ms, and 1 in arkansas. consolidation of shelby county is on the ballot for the nov 2 election; however, it is, after three previous attempts, almost a dead horse already. shelby county has roughly 1 million residents, but the city proper has about 700,000+ residents.

a similar use of services by metro residents has existed for many years concerning one of the level 1 trauma centers known as "the med" in the center city in memphis. it is the busiest trauma 1 center in the united states, and it serves memphis, the surrounding metro tn counties, the memphis ms metro counties, and the metro west memphis, arkansas county of crittenden. until about 6 months ago ms and arkansas did not want to pay for their citizens' use of the facility. after the rather forceful meeting, which outlined the expectations, if services were going to continue, arkansas and ms agreed to contribute an amount acceptable to all involved.

as i understand, most of america's 20 largest cities do not have metro governments. does anyone have any off-the-cuff suggestions or ideas about the usefulness of metro government in general, and/or the best method of collecting the untaxed, who use services paid for by the taxed?


----------



## mgk920

*I-55 (Memphis, TN) upgrade option picked*

http://news.tennesseeanytime.org/node/5930

TDOT selected an option to untangle the I-55/Crump Bd interchange in Memphis, TN that will construct free-flow lanes for the I-55 through turns there, while replacing the current cloverleaf interchange with a five point two-lane roundabout that will provide improved access for the local streets and neighborhoods - all while requiring the acquisition and removal of *NO* buildings or houses.

See:
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=35.123612,-90.069008&spn=0.010214,0.021973&t=k&z=16
I-55 comes in from the south, turns left at the cloverleaf and crosses the bridge over the Mississippi River to the west.

No word on its expected construction schedule.

I like this one.

:cheers1:

Mike


----------



## dl3000

Haljackey said:


> Why not compromise and make "bilingual signs"? They would show both metric and imperial measurements so it wouldn't confuse people.
> 
> The USA is like, 1 of 3 remaining countries that does not use the metric system? Perhaps dual signage is a good way to start shifting to the norm.
> 
> Then again I know very little about the metric Vs. imperial debate. I hate conversions, so using one system is a plus, at least in my opinion.


There are some scattered about in random locations. I remember driving up the 101 in LA area and there were metric/imperial signs. They are also the dark board with reflecting letters signs that will eventually be replaced. I think now that they have switched to the entire sign being reflective, that the white letters on green (which is lighter than the old green) does not provide enough contrast at night.


----------



## Rail Claimore

mgk920 said:


> http://news.tennesseeanytime.org/node/5930
> 
> TDOT selected an option to untangle the I-55/Crump Bd interchange in Memphis, TN that will construct free-flow lanes for the I-55 through turns there, while replacing the current cloverleaf interchange with a five point two-lane roundabout that will provide improved access for the local streets and neighborhoods - all while requiring the acquisition and removal of *NO* buildings or houses.
> 
> See:
> http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=35.123612,-90.069008&spn=0.010214,0.021973&t=k&z=16
> I-55 comes in from the south, turns left at the cloverleaf and crosses the bridge over the Mississippi River to the west.
> 
> No word on its expected construction schedule.
> 
> I like this one.
> 
> :cheers1:
> 
> Mike


About time they fix that. It's usually faster to take 240 North to 40 West because of that bottleneck.


----------



## nerdly_dood

Haljackey said:


> Why not compromise and make "bilingual signs"? They would show both metric and imperial measurements so it wouldn't confuse people.
> 
> The USA is like, 1 of 3 remaining countries that does not use the metric system? Perhaps dual signage is a good way to start shifting to the norm.
> 
> Then again I know very little about the metric Vs. imperial debate. I hate conversions, so using one system is a plus, at least in my opinion.


What we use works just fine for us.


----------



## Highwaycrazy

nerdly_dood said:


> What we use works just fine for us.


I don't think so, its only used by 2 countries in the northern hemisphere...... 

You've got to be realistic and accept that in the real world, everyone uses the SI units of measurement. All your Exports to Europe are required to be labeled in Metric Units only. 

I have no idea why you're against going metric. Yes, it takes effort but look at other countries that switched - they had no problems, did they? For example, Ireland went metric in 2005 from MPH to Km/h without any serious issues.


----------



## Maxx☢Power

Again with the metric vs imperial? I doubt anything's changed since the last 5 times this discussion was had.


----------



## nestea_lemon

Because you can't join a "high kilometer club".


----------



## msz2

ChrisZwolle said:


> A cool night video of I-110 in Los Angeles. You can see a double HOV-lane here, I believe that's quite a rare feature.


L.A. will be your future home?


----------



## msz2

desertpunk said:


> *75/121 construction in Dallas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


*

Wow, that's fucking nice.*


----------



## Tom 958

mgk920 said:


> http://news.tennesseeanytime.org/node/5930
> 
> TDOT selected an option to untangle the I-55/Crump Bd interchange...
> 
> I like this one.
> 
> :cheers1:
> 
> Mike


I never would've predicted this. Seems a bit underpowered-- to me, it's easy to imagine traffic backed up onto the mainline on the northbound exit to the roundabout. I predict that most of that ramp will be two lanes to provide more storage capacity. Plus, heavy traffic on the southbound entry to I-55 from the roundabout will surely make it nearly impossible for southbound I-55 motorists to exit at McLemore Avenue, especially during the afternoon rush hour. I suppose they could take the preceding exit and go through the roundabout themselves if there's advance notification.

Maintaining traffic during construction should be fun. Maybe a much larger temporary roundabout during removal of the existing bridge and regrading of the eventual roundabout site?


----------



## Paddington

Kilometers are for pussies.


----------



## mgk920

Tom 958 said:


> I never would've predicted this. Seems a bit underpowered-- to me, it's easy to imagine traffic backed up onto the mainline on the northbound exit to the roundabout. I predict that most of that ramp will be two lanes to provide more storage capacity. Plus, heavy traffic on the southbound entry to I-55 from the roundabout will surely make it nearly impossible for southbound I-55 motorists to exit at McLemore Avenue, especially during the afternoon rush hour. I suppose they could take the preceding exit and go through the roundabout themselves if there's advance notification.
> 
> Maintaining traffic during construction should be fun. Maybe a much larger temporary roundabout during removal of the existing bridge and regrading of the eventual roundabout site?


You'd be surprised at the traffic throughput capacity of roundabouts once the locals get accustomed to them and how they work and are to be driven.

Mike


----------



## mgk920

msz2 said:


> Wow, that's f***ing nice.


Interestingly, that's not an interstate interchange - that's where US 75/TX 121 meet. OTOH, yes, both highways are built to full interstate standards.

:nuts:

:lol:

Mike


----------



## Zach759

Paddington said:


> Kilometers are for pussies.


Ha! It's true


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Paddington said:


> Kilometers are for pussies.


It would be annoying to rename Detroit's Mile roads. :lol:

4 mile road becomes 6.4 km road.


----------



## ADCS

mgk920 said:


> Interestingly, that's not an interstate interchange - that's where US 75/TX 121 meet. OTOH, yes, both highways are built to full interstate standards.
> 
> :nuts:
> 
> :lol:
> 
> Mike


It's likely in the distant future that US 75 will become an extension of I-45, but that's decades from now.


----------



## urbanlover

*Highway deaths fall to lowest level since 1950*

By KEN THOMAS (AP) – Sep 9, 2010

WASHINGTON — Traffic deaths have plummeted across the United States to levels not seen in more than a half-century, spurred by technology, safety-conscious drivers and tougher enforcement of drunken driving laws.

The Transportation Department said Thursday that traffic deaths fell 9.7 percent in 2009 to 33,808, the lowest number since 1950. In 2008, an estimated 37,423 people died on the highways.

Government and auto safety experts attributed the improvement to more people buckling up, side air bags and anti-rollover technology in more vehicles and a focus in many states on curbing drinking and driving. Economic conditions were also a factor.


Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood called the new data "a landmark achievement for public health and safety" but cautioned that too many people are killed on the road each year. "While we've come a long way," he said, "we have a long distance yet to travel."

Forty-one states, the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico saw reductions in highway fatalities, led by Florida with 422 fewer deaths and Texas, down 405.



http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jZWXMAKDL1hNsWENCsKsChdohh1gD9I4IG281


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Europe vs US gap in traffic safety is becoming increasingly larger. Many European countries halved their traffic fatalities in the last 6 - 8 years, and are now at a considerably lower level than the United States. 

I always feel underaged DUI could be a major factor in the United States, as well as more weather-related fatalities than in Europe. It can't be the speed limits, which are way lower in the US than in most of Europe.


----------



## strandeed

Driver training in the United states verges on the pathetic to the non-existent.

I lived there for two years and in that time I saw more examples of dangerous driving and hare-brained exploits than my entire driving life back in the UK.

Considering the huge emphasis placed on building safe roads (gradual curves and wide lanes and shoulders) and abundance of automatic transmissions in cars, you would think the roads would be some of the most refined and relaxed in the world.

Very poor show.


----------



## sotonsi

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Europe vs US gap in traffic safety is becoming increasingly larger. Many European countries halved their traffic fatalities in the last 6 - 8 years, and are now at a considerably lower level than the United States.


The UK didn't - but it's started dropping back again - '98 to '06 was pretty much stagnation in fatality reduction, while similar countries - Germany, The Netherlands - overtook us as having the safest roads, because they massively reduced their fatalities.

Is the USA that bad compared to Western Europe when you factor in people-miles? 33,800 is about 11 times bigger than the UK, but the Us has 5 times the population, and is spatially a lot bigger, so that sounds not horrifically bad.


----------



## urbanlover

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Europe vs US gap in traffic safety is becoming increasingly larger. Many European countries halved their traffic fatalities in the last 6 - 8 years, and are now at a considerably lower level than the United States.
> 
> I always feel underaged DUI could be a major factor in the United States, as well as more weather-related fatalities than in Europe. It can't be the speed limits, which are way lower in the US than in most of Europe.


Per billions of km traveled the US is comparable to most European countries the US has 8.5 deaths per billion vechical/km. Austria= 8.8 Belgium= 10.8, France= 7.7 Germany= 6.5 Denmark=8.2, the Netherlands= 7.7, the UK=5.0. Now per capita death are generally death higher, but Americans drive much more and I think that skews the numbers. When compared to the amount actually driven there isn't a big difference.


http://www.internationaltransportforum.org/irtad/pdf/risk.pdf


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Wow that Dutch figure is outdated. 650 fatalities on 199 billion km = 3.3 not 7.7.

Interesting to note the US seems to score twice as bad on freeways than Europe.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

I think it goes back to our drivers being some of the worst in the western world and dependence on the car to get everywhere as to why we have so many accidents.


----------



## Surel

^^
It should be noted in this discussion that there is missing point. How expensive is it to save additional life on the roads compared to saving someone by providing e.g. quality healthcare. Or by providing other public goods than just road safety.

We don't usually see people dying from cancer on the news. There is no action about it. However van piercing a truck is very messy business...

That being said I am not against increasing safety standards... just that the marginal value of this should be compared with other means of spending public money.

This is however pricing human life and thats what people let alone polititians don't like to do.


----------



## Haljackey

Change of topic, here's a video of the Katy Freeway (I-10): one of the most impressive sections of highway in the USA.






I'm not really a fan of frontage roads along highways, but it's HOV system should be a model for all others. Very well implemented.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-275westcoastfl said:


> I think it goes back to (...) dependence on the car to get everywhere as to why we have so many accidents.


That does not explain the factor 2 gap between many EU countries and the US. Automobile usage in Europe is not that much lower than the United States, approximately 92% vs 84%.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Is that car ownership or annual miles driven?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Modal split.

Car ownership is higher in the US because it is generally too expensive to keep an old, little-used car in Europe. Even a 15 year old car which drives 1,000 miles per year can cost you as much as $ 2,000 per year in fees, gas, insurance and vehicle inspections.

However, car ownership does not indicate automobile usage. For example, the modal split is 92% car, and 8% other in the US, with a car ownership of 765 vehicles per 1,000 inhabitants, while it is 82% car and 18% other in the Netherlands at 460 vehicles per 1,000 inhabitants. So car ownership does not translate directly in modal split.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Yea I understand but I'd think that the average American drives more miles annually thus increasing the risk. Are there any stats out there?


----------



## strandeed

Average UK driver travels 7755 miles a year

http://www.roadrecord.co.uk/news/article/uk-mileage-reaches-lunar-proportions

Average USA driver travels 12000 miles a year

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1608077


So the average american only travels about 4245 miles more than the average Brit (154%) yet americans are three and a half times (350%) more likely to be killed in an accident.

3.59 vs 12.3 (per 100,000 inhabitants)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate


----------



## nerdly_dood

strandeed said:


> Average UK driver travels 7755 miles a year
> 
> http://www.roadrecord.co.uk/news/article/uk-mileage-reaches-lunar-proportions
> 
> Average USA driver travels 12000 miles a year
> 
> http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1608077
> 
> 
> So the average american only travels about 4245 miles more than the average Brit (154%) yet americans are three and a half times (350%) more likely to be killed in an accident.
> 
> 3.59 vs 12.3 (per 100,000 inhabitants)
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate


Also keep in mind that we've got a lot more open rural roads without much traffic, where people are more likely to drive too fast. Britain has more traffic and fewer rural areas with such roads. Plus there's a term I think is relevant... "Driving culture."


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The most dangerous roads, statistically speaking, are two-lane rural roads. That is where most fatalities relative to a billion driving miles happen. City streets are next, and freeways are the safest, although it seems weird that the U.S. freeway fatalities are so much higher than in most of Europe.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Alright well then again I think it just leads back to Americans lacking driving skills.


----------



## Nexis

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Alright well then again I think it just leads back to Americans lacking driving skills.


Yea , Unfortnatly thats another thing were behind on....


----------



## strandeed

ChrisZwolle said:


> The most dangerous roads, statistically speaking, are two-lane rural roads. That is where most fatalities relative to a billion driving miles happen. City streets are next, and freeways are the safest, although it seems weird that the U.S. freeway fatalities are so much higher than in most of Europe.


Purely down to the lack of driver training IMO...

US roads are some of the best engineered, widest (inner and outer shoulders) and straightest in the world.

Americans also tend to drive much larger cars than the rest of the world so in theory they should be better protected.

Therefore the logical conclusion is that education, training and enforcement is inadequate.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> Americans also tend to drive much larger cars than the rest of the world so in theory they should be better protected.


It should be noted impact force (kinetic energy) with heavier vehicles is bigger, and SUV's and pickup trucks are prone to tipping over.


----------



## strandeed

ChrisZwolle said:


> It should be noted impact force (kinetic energy) with heavier vehicles is bigger, and SUV's and pickup trucks are prone to tipping over.


Indeed bigger does not always equal safer, but according to euro NCAP, the larger vehicles almost always perform better in accidents.

http://www.euroncap.com/Content-Web....aspx#faq692fe9b6-e006-4167-b471-07b99c8f62c4

Until fairly recently (circa 2000) you were probably better off in a larger car before the widespread use of boron steel and side impact/roof crush safety standard were implemented.


----------



## Tom 958

strandeed said:


> Purely down to the lack of driver training IMO...
> 
> US roads are some of the best engineered, widest (inner and outer shoulders) and straightest in the world.


I have no intention of doing the statistical legwork to back this up, but about twelve years I read a study that found that routine widening and straightening of roads for safety purposes didn't equate to safer roads. The reason was that eliminating marginal hazards simply increased driver complacency, leading to a compensatory increase in accidents at other less- or non-substandard sections of roadway. In fact, the reduction in injuries and fatalities was found to be less that the effects that could be reasonably attributed to non-roadway factors such as safer vehicles and better emergency medical care. In other words, so-called safety improvements may have actually made roads less safe, though the difference was very small. 

Oddly, this study of American experience was done by a British team. I assume that consideration was being given to systematically upgrading British two-lane roads in the same way that the US has done, and the Brits wisely decided to try to find out if it was really worth doing.


----------



## strandeed

sounds more like a UK government study to try and justify the lack of investment in vital motorway infrastructure upgrades.

Are you at all familiar with the UK road network?


----------



## HAWC1506

strandeed said:


> Indeed bigger does not always equal safer, but according to euro NCAP, the larger vehicles almost always perform better in accidents.
> 
> http://www.euroncap.com/Content-Web....aspx#faq692fe9b6-e006-4167-b471-07b99c8f62c4
> 
> Until fairly recently (circa 2000) you were probably better off in a larger car before the widespread use of boron steel and side impact/roof crush safety standard were implemented.


Probably performs better at the expense of the object it's hitting haha


----------



## Penn's Woods

Highwaycrazy said:


> I don't think so, its only used by 2 countries in the northern hemisphere......
> 
> You've got to be realistic and accept that in the real world, everyone uses the SI units of measurement. All your Exports to Europe are required to be labeled in Metric Units only.
> 
> I have no idea why you're against going metric. Yes, it takes effort but look at other countries that switched - they had no problems, did they? For example, Ireland went metric in 2005 from MPH to Km/h without any serious issues.


"The real world"?
What I have no idea about is why it bothers you. I don't get the uniformity fetish. We use the measurement system we're used to. And we (mostly) don't give a damn about soccer, either. Why is this a problem?


----------



## brewerfan386

^^ +1 (A little cultural variety here and there is NEVER a bad thing.) 
_______________________________________________________________________________________ 

Future I-74 Construction in North Carolina 




































































































(all are courtesy of Link)


----------



## ttownfeen

Penn's Woods said:


> "The real world"?
> What I have no idea about is why it bothers you. I don't get the uniformity fetish. We use the measurement system we're used to. And we (mostly) don't give a damn about soccer, either. Why is this a problem?


I apologize for jumping in the middle of this conversation, but there is no room for "quaintness" in business. Uniformity mean efficiency and efficiency means more profits.


----------



## brewerfan386

^^
What does Wall Street have to do with this particular SSC argument?
Anyway, aren't we repetitively








with the whole metrication debate at this point?
BTW, Did anyone notice the different construction methods we use compared to Europe (pics posted above)?


----------



## Maxx☢Power

brewerfan386 said:


> BTW, Did anyone notice the different construction methods we use compared to Europe (pics posted above)?


Yes, you should clearly switch to the superior way of building roads too 

Edit: To be on topic, why does the road look so "uneven"?


----------



## jchernin

Maxx☢Power;64443567 said:


> Yes, you should clearly switch to the superior way of building roads too
> 
> Edit: To be on topic, why does the road look so "uneven"?


partly all the dirt on it


----------



## Paddington

Not all American roads are like that. Ohio actually has smooth roads. Smooth like ze autobahn.


----------



## urbanlover

brewerfan386 said:


> ^^
> What does Wall Street have to do with this particular SSC argument?
> 
> with the whole metrication debate at this point?
> BTW, Did anyone notice the different construction methods we use compared to Europe (pics posted above)?


No, what is different than what's done in Europe?


----------



## Xusein

They put different markers and colors on their roads? :dunno:


----------



## brewerfan386

urbanlover said:


> No, what is different than what's done in Europe?


Just a few things that stand out to me: No asphalt on the bridge decks, precast or steel girders instead of cast in-place methods for over/ under passes and most smaller water crossings, crash absorbers at the end of guardrail sections, large interior shoulders, big grassy median, no vertical curbs, etc.


----------



## HAWC1506

brewerfan386 said:


> Just a few things that stand out to me: No asphalt on the bridge decks, precast or steel girders instead of cast in-place methods for over/ under passes and most smaller water crossings, crash absorbers at the end of guardrail sections, large interior shoulders, big grassy median, no vertical curbs, etc.


Also, tighter turning radius, much less consistent superelevation, inconsistent placement of crash barriers, and, depending on the state, poorer drainage on the pavement due to the use of dense-graded asphalt. Although I recall that some sections of the Autobahn uses dense-graded asphalt for durability, no?



Penn's Woods said:


> "The real world"?
> What I have no idea about is why it bothers you. I don't get the uniformity fetish. We use the measurement system we're used to. And we (mostly) don't give a damn about soccer, either. Why is this a problem?


Because the metric system is the better system. "We're used to it" is a kindergarten excuse that disregards the benefits of the metric system.


----------



## Paddington

brewerfan386 said:


> Just a few things that stand out to me: No asphalt on the bridge decks, precast or steel girders instead of cast in-place methods for over/ under passes and most smaller water crossings, crash absorbers at the end of guardrail sections, large interior shoulders, big grassy median, no vertical curbs, etc.


----------



## brewerfan386

HAWC1506 said:


> Also, tighter turning radius, much less consistent super-elevation, inconsistent placement of crash barriers, and, depending on the state, poorer drainage on the pavement due to the use of dense-graded asphalt. Although I recall that some sections of the Autobahn uses dense-graded asphalt for durability, no?


From what I understand the United States doesn't really use that water absorbing (porous) blacktop that's common in parts of Europe and Japan. Also guardrails are generally only used where the destruction of the vehicle is preferred/ safer then the auto going off the road.
*EDIT*, Paddington: lol


----------



## Penn's Woods

HAWC1506 said:


> Because the metric system is the better system. "We're used to it" is a kindergarten excuse that disregards the benefits of the metric system.


It's been 40 years since I was in kindergarten (actually Montessori school). There are ways to disagree with people without being rude about it.

That said, if we were starting a country from scratch, yes, go with metric. But we're not. The supposed benefits of it relative to the traditional system do not, in my opinion - if I may be permitted to have one - outweigh the inconvenience and expense of changing. And it is embedded in the culture and the language. But my real point is that this is a decision for Americans to make. Non-Americans demanding that we conform to the metric system (or that we give up our own sports for soccer*), or non-British demanding that the British start driving on the right**, are out of line. If having to learn the difference between miles and kilometers, or fahrenheit and celsius, when they're here is such an imposition, they have the option of staying home. Heck, we manage it in the other direction.

*Yes, that happens. In fact, it had happened on another forum a short time before I read this thread. So non-Americans complaining about how we have the effrontery to not do everything exactly the way they do has become a pet peeve of mine.

**that's happened on _this_ forum.


----------



## Barciur

I agree that people who it does not concern should basically ef off, but keep in mind there is a good amount of people in the States who do believe that metric is better and are for implementing it, so it's not just foreigners who try to stick their nose into our issues 

As for sports, to each his own. I know a lot of people who don't care about American sports but watch the MLS and follow US National Team, I know people who care about both as well as people who don't give a crap about soccer. But times are changing and, especially amongst younger people, soccer is becoming more and more popular in this country. BUt that's OT anyway.


----------



## Tom 958

brewerfan386 said:


> Just a few things that stand out to me: No asphalt on the bridge decks, precast or steel girders instead of cast in-place methods for over/ under passes and most smaller water crossings, crash absorbers at the end of guardrail sections, large interior shoulders, big grassy median, no vertical curbs, etc.


As a not-very-well-travelled American, I'm more cognizant of the differences between states, of which there are many. One semi-interesting observation about North Carolina: Of the southern states in which I've travelled most extensively, most started the freeway construction era building ramp terminals of the parallel design, then switched to the (IMO superior) taper type in the mid 60's. North Carolina did, too-- but switched back to parallel in (I think) the early '80's.


----------



## Nexis

Wheres the $$$ coming for that project?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Dallas LBJexpress project will be funded by tolls. The Phoenix project will be funded by local taxes as usual. (proposition 400).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

http://www.i85extension.com/index.htm

The I-85 extension to I-20 near Cuba (MS/AL state line) has been approved by AASHTO last month. They're currently working on the final EIS.


----------



## ttownfeen

They should extend I-16 from Macon to I-85 somewhere near Auburn and call the Montgomery-I-20 extension I-16. At least it would make sense as an E-W interstate.

They should also build an interstate replacement of US 231 and 431 between Montgomery to Dothan and on to I-10 near Pamama City and call that I-65. Existing I-65 between Mongtomery and Mobile can be rechristened as I-85.


----------



## dibble zee

Haljackey said:


> ChrisZwolle: Those two projects are insane! The one in the video looks crazy expensive, and the second one would leave Highway 401 in the dust.
> 
> Does Phoenix (and it's metro area) really need 24 lanes? I heard it was the second most unsustainable major city in the USA (behind Los Angeles). The last thing it needs is considerable growth.


Thankfully Chris didn't even respond to your idiotic post. Keep the politics out of these threads. Jeez why is it always my fellow Canadians that have to derail threads with needless politics and bleeding heart BS. You're making the rest of us look bad. This thread is for highway enthusiasts.


----------



## sonysnob

dibble zee said:


> Thankfully Chris didn't even respond to your idiotic post. Keep the politics out of these threads. Jeez why is it always my fellow Canadians that have to derail threads with needless politics and bleeding heart BS. You're making the rest of us look bad. This thread is for highway enthusiasts.


Is this really necessary? Don't like someone's posts, don't respond. I am not going to start some stupid online war, but if you don't have anything add to a thread, aside flaming other members or your fellow countrymen, don't post.


----------



## ADCS

ttownfeen said:


> They should extend I-16 from Macon to I-85 somewhere near Auburn and call the Montgomery-I-20 extension I-16. At least it would make sense as an E-W interstate.
> 
> They should also build an interstate replacement of US 231 and 431 between Montgomery to Dothan and on to I-10 near Pamama City and call that I-65. Existing I-65 between Mongtomery and Mobile can be rechristened as I-85.


Why stop there? Let's get rid of I-16 altogether:

- I-20 extension from Cuba becomes the I-20 mainline
- I-20/I-59 duplex stays as I-59
- I-85 in Montgomery becomes I-20/I-85 duplex
- I-16 + extension to Auburn becomes I-20
- I-40 from Little Rock to Memphis becomes I-30/I-40 duplex
- I-22 from Memphis to Birmingham becomes I-30
- Former I-20 from Birmingham to Florence, SC becomes I-30


----------



## ttownfeen

Sounds like a plan.


----------



## engenx4

Perfect :banana: ...........:lol:


----------



## Xusein

Google Maps already shows I-22. Are there actually any signs for it?


----------



## Jschmuck

> Are there actually any signs for it?


there are signs that say "Future I-22 Corridor"


----------



## KingNick

ChrisZwolle said:


> Epic view:


One of the few placed I didn't mind being stuck in traffic. 

But seriously, I hate driving in LA!


----------



## sonysnob

^ That's an amazing photo.









From the top.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A very cool video of the "Big I interchange" in Albuquerque, New Mexico.


----------



## fredcalif

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Dallas LBJexpress project will be funded by tolls. The Phoenix project will be funded by local taxes as usual. (proposition 400).


hopefully they build it here in Phoenix,
phoenix freeway system is growing so fast, it should be on the top 7 now in the country.

does anyone have any statistic of freeways lanes up to 2010.
every major freeway in phoenix now have at least 8 lanes total and all of them have HOV lanes.:banana::banana:


----------



## sonysnob

Interstate 76 entering Philadelphia:


----------



## Xusein

That is a very nice picture. 

I've driven in Philly before, a lot of the highways there are pretty narrow.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Philadelphia probably has the worst freeway system of any million+ city in the United States.


----------



## fredcalif

ChrisZwolle said:


> Philadelphia probably has the worst freeway system of any million+ city in the United States.


Chris,

do you have any ranking of the largest freeways systems by miles in the USA?
I think there was one from the 80s, but nothing from the last 3 years


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, the extent of a freeway system isn't the biggest factor, it's how it relates to the extent of the population. For example, the Los Angeles freeway system appears to be very large, but relative to population it doesn't rank much better than New York City. 

There was a list about freeway lane mileage relative to population. I believe Kansas City had the best, and some metro areas along I-75 in Florida (I believe the Cape Coral area) had the worst.


----------



## Magnus Brage

ChrisZwolle said:


> I doubt it, in Europe the most aggressive driving style can be seen in the cities least built for the car (Rome, Palermo, Athens, Napels, etc.), while the tamest driving styles can be found in cities built for road traffic (Copenhagen, Berlin, Stockholm, etc.)


regarding Copenhagen and Stockholm.

Copenhagen has wide straight streets and avenues especially HC Andersen Blvd, the city is easy to drive in, but the drivers are more hotblooded than the ones in Stockholm, the pace in Cph is higher too.

Stockholm on the other hand is a more complicated city for driving, the innercity streets are narrower, large number of oneway streets, speedbumps, the old town is closed to motor-traffic, roadtolls (no such in Cph ??)

But despite this difficulties, the driving is rather lame.

I think it depends on the national-temper that is the blood of the drivers, not the city it self.


----------



## Haljackey

Go HD, go full-screen, and enjoy.






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrSGw7Mosic


----------



## ttownfeen

They need some sort of monument to announce the entrance into the Central Valley. Seriously...one second in you're in the mountains and then you turn a corner and it's the Promised Land as far as the eye can see!


----------



## gigilamoroso

Well, instead of a monument they definitly need more enforcement : where the hell is the highway patrol? This seem to be a festival of waving, following too close, no turn signals :bash: california : the promise land for highway safety?


----------



## ttownfeen

Well, certainly the fact that the fourth lane is closed during the most treacherous stretch of the downhill slope doesn't help. I think there should be at least two truck lanes...maybe they could even grade-separate the truck lanes.


----------



## geogregor

gigilamoroso said:


> Well, instead of a monument they definitly need more enforcement : where the hell is the highway patrol? This seem to be a festival of waving, following too close, no turn signals :bash: california : the promise land for highway safety?


I drove the pass in 2008 heading south to LA. Driving there is crazy. Downhill most people go well over the limit something like 80-90mph. 
In general I think US speed limits are ludicrously low and strangely many people still obey them Here, where limit actually makes a lot of sense, everyone ignores it. It's probably due to being close to LA, where people drive fast and furious. Almost like Europeans


----------



## Xusein

Gridlock in Atlanta...courtesy of Google.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's hardly a gridlock, but just a traffic jam.


----------



## Tom 958

Gravedig!



ChrisZwolle said:


> http://www.i85extension.com/index.htm
> 
> 
> The I-85 extension to I-20 near Cuba (MS/AL state line) has been approved by AASHTO last month. They're currently working on the final EIS.


This project irritates the piss out of me. It's impossible for me to imagine that duplicating an existing 2x2 highway in this rather lightly travelled corridor is significantly preferable to simply constructing controlled access bypasses of Selma, Demopolis and maybe Uniontown/Faunsdale and throwing in a few superstreet-type crossings at any sites where safety is a problem. Use the money saved for similarly improving other corridors in the state, such as US 280, US 431, US 231 and US 72. That approach has worked well in Virginia. 

I also like the idea of doing a new terrain freeway from Selma to I-65 at Prattville, FWIW.


----------



## Xusein

ChrisZwolle said:


> That's hardly a gridlock, but just a traffic jam.


Either way, I wouldn't want to be in that.  

Pretty much of all of the new Google coverage of I-75/85 in Downtown Atlanta is in a jam.


----------



## schweitzerdude

Turbosnail said:


> Looks like a computer chip or something


This nighttime pic of Chicago also illustrates the different street lighting in Chicago versus some of it's suburbs. If you go look west (left) of downtown Chicago, you will see a darker rectangle. This is Oak Park, which is just as densely populated as neighboring parts of Chicago, but has less bright street lights. Now look to the south of Oak Park, and you will see another rectangle, which is Berwyn, which also has less intense street lighting.


----------



## geogregor

hadeer992 said:


> this is one of the photos that I could never forget


Where did you find this picture? Is any higher resolution available?


----------



## Substructure

It takes less than ten seconds to Google "Chicago night grid" in large size (search options on the left pane).

http://www.google.fr/images?q=chica...lnt&sa=X&ei=260QTf6OFsmfOv2L_eUI&ved=0CAcQpwU

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/149/343703624_c07e6bbe04_o.jpg


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Amazing video of the I-95 / I-495 southeastern part of the Washington Beltway.






Video works great at full-screen!


----------



## IRELAND

These videos have really good songs!


----------



## Attus

ChrisZwolle said:


> Amazing video of the I-95 / I-495 southeastern part of the Washington Beltway.
> Video works great at full-screen!


What I find strange is that although speed limit is 55 and 65 (i.e. normal in US but slow for Europe) a lot of cars drive slower than the one with the camera. So either he drives too fast or so many people think even 55/65 is too fast.


----------



## gigilamoroso

Attus said:


> What I find strange is that although speed limit is 55 and 65 (i.e. normal in US but slow for Europe) a lot of cars drive slower than the one with the camera. So either he drives too fast or so many people think even 55/65 is too fast.


Well, I don't know why people say that speed limits are slow in the US compared with EU ones. Where the hell do you find in Europe rural 2X1 roads without any interchanges but at grade intersections with 70 or 75 mph speed limits? Nowhere whereas in western US states you can find that high speed limits. Everywhere in Europe 2x1 rural roads have 55 mph speed limits.

Besides people focus on the expressways. Well in urban areas in Europe, speed limits on the expressways are more or less at the same level that those on US urban freeways! Example Paris metro area : between the Paris 1rst ring road (péripherique) and the 2dn ring road speed limit on the freeways is 90 km/h=55 mph! between the 2nd ring road and the 3rd speed limit is 110 km/h=68 mph!

To finish with I'd say that, especially in western european countries, we do have enforcement of the speed limits whereas in the US enforcement is a mere joke, everybody speeds! Come on guys look at the highway safety statistics of western european countries and compare with the US ones you will find that the image of the US as a country where people drive safely is a mere myth! With speed cameras forbidden mostly evreywhere, sobriety checkpoints forbidden, no seat belt laws for passengers on the rear, or even no helmet laws for motorcycles on some states, what do you expect?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Attus said:


> What I find strange is that although speed limit is 55 and 65 (i.e. normal in US but slow for Europe) a lot of cars drive slower than the one with the camera. So either he drives too fast or so many people think even 55/65 is too fast.


I think the people who make these videos are more involved in traffic issues in general and probably think limits are too low. So, I think they're driving faster than the limit, but not reckless. 



> Besides people focus on the expressways. Well in urban areas in Europe, speed limits on the expressways are more or less at the same level that those on US urban freeways! Example Paris metro area : between the Paris 1rst ring road (péripherique) and the 2dn ring road speed limit on the freeways is 90 km/h=55 mph! between the 2nd ring road and the 3rd speed limit is 110 km/h=68 mph!


On the other hand, speed limits in suburban areas of the US are still around 60 - 65 mph, while they are often 75 or 80 mph in Germany. Downtown speed limits are more or less the same in Europe and the US. The Amsterdam Ring Road is generally limited to 60 mph, but 50 mph in some sections. But the A2 or A3 through the Ruhr area are mostly limited to 80 mph.


----------



## geogregor

gigilamoroso said:


> Well, I don't know why people say that speed limits are slow in the US compared with EU ones. Where the hell do you find in Europe rural 2X1 roads without any interchanges but at grade intersections with 70 or 75 mph speed limits? Nowhere whereas in western US states you can find that high speed limits. Everywhere in Europe 2x1 rural roads have 55 mph speed limits.
> 
> Besides people focus on the expressways. Well in urban areas in Europe, speed limits on the expressways are more or less at the same level that those on US urban freeways! Example Paris metro area : between the Paris 1rst ring road (péripherique) and the 2dn ring road speed limit on the freeways is 90 km/h=55 mph! between the 2nd ring road and the 3rd speed limit is 110 km/h=68 mph!
> 
> To finish with I'd say that, especially in western european countries, we do have enforcement of the speed limits whereas in the US enforcement is a mere joke, everybody speeds! Come on guys look at the highway safety statistics of western european countries and compare with the US ones you will find that the image of the US as a country where people drive safely is a mere myth! With speed cameras forbidden mostly evreywhere, sobriety checkpoints forbidden, no seat belt laws for passengers on the rear, or even no helmet laws for motorcycles on some states, what do you expect?


Lower speed limits in urban areas in US and in Europe make perfect sense. Also lower limits on most of 2X1 highways are perfectly justified.
One thing I dont's understand are low limits on US rural freeways. 
Why only 70 or 75 mph in states like Iowa, Nebraska or Kansas with its dead straight interstates? I just don't get it. There could be easily 80 or 90mph limit or even no limit at all like on German motorways. I did drive in these states and I don't see any problems with its freeways, they are not worse than overrated German ones.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ The 75 limits aren't the worst, how about all the 65 - 70 mph limits on rural freeways along the Eastern Seaboard or even Illinois or Wisconsin?


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> how about all the 65 - 70 mph limits on rural freeways along the Eastern Seaboard or even Illinois or Wisconsin?


65mph on rural freeways, it is a total joke


----------



## Xusein

There are a few interstates in CT in rural areas at 55...now that makes me mad.


----------



## Trilesy

ChrisZwolle said:


> Amazing video of the I-95 / I-495 southeastern part of the Washington Beltway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video works great at full-screen!


Drove on it a few days ago. Great bypass road, 3-4 lanes and great quality pavement. 

Speed limit is 55 mph almost everywhere around D.C., but everybody drives 70 or more.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Speed limit's in the US are a joke, almost all the roads have limits that are too low and most people simply ignore them so police easily earn money for the state writing tickets in speed traps.


----------



## Nexis

Xusein said:


> There are a few interstates in CT in rural areas at 55...now that makes me mad.


You know and I know that no one fellows that....its more like 70mph....in Rural areas....in Rural areas in the Virgina my cousins hit the gas and push 100mph.


----------



## Xusein

Cops sometimes are hiding in the woods so you have to be careful, especially at night. I try to stay below 65.


----------



## nerdly_dood

Low speed limits are an artifact of the OPEC oil embargo in the 1970s, when a national 55 MPH speed limit was instituted in order to save fuel. This limit was repealed in (I think) the mid-1990s and speed limits have been rising since then.

I do prefer higher limits: I think they are actually safer than low speed limits, as driving at 55 MPH on a road designed for traffic at 70 MPH is just boring, so drivers will be more likely to pay less attention to the road than if they had been driving faster, and are more likely to crash. The argument in favor of lower speed limits in order to save fuel is a valid and good point, but cars are much more efficient now than they were in the 1970s, so it's less of a problem now.

55 MPH speed limits are most common now on urban highways where there's simply too much traffic for anything higher to be safe, and we're not yet to the point where we have higher speed limits at different times of day with lower traffic.

As far as speed traps go, I'd strongly suggest to always drive 2 MPH below the speed limit in the entire town of Falls Church, Virginia. There's pretty much no place in town with a speed limit higher than 25, and still the police are ridiculously strict in speed enforcement. There are places in numerous cities where people are likely to drive too fast, like at the bottom of a 30 MPH hill with lots of pedestrians, so the police will frequently sit there with a radar gun and wait for the poor fool driving at 31 MPH.


----------



## LtBk

What about during night or between rush hours? 55 mph is still too low, and its common for people to travel 60 and above.


----------



## Trilesy

nerdly_dood said:


> 55 MPH speed limits are most common now on urban highways where there's simply too much traffic for anything higher to be safe, and we're not yet to the point where we have higher speed limits at different times of day with lower traffic.
> 
> As far as speed traps go, I'd strongly suggest to always drive 2 MPH below the speed limit in the entire town of Falls Church, Virginia. There's pretty much no place in town with a speed limit higher than 25, and still the police are ridiculously strict in speed enforcement. There are places in numerous cities where people are likely to drive too fast, like at the bottom of a 30 MPH hill with lots of pedestrians, so the police will frequently sit there with a radar gun and wait for the poor fool driving at 31 MPH.



I always drive 4 mph above speed limit in city and never had any problems. 

Is it really that strict at Falls Church? I actually visited my friends there last week and drove through the town, but didn't see anything different from other towns.


----------



## nerdly_dood

Trilesy said:


> I always drive 4 mph above speed limit in city and never had any problems.
> 
> Is it really that strict at Falls Church? I actually visited my friends there last week and drove through the town, but didn't see anything different from other towns.


I've not been there but about 3 times, without seeing a police car once, but I've heard they make a substantial effort to make as much money from speeding tickets as possible.



LtBk said:


> What about during night or between rush hours? 55 mph is still too low, and its common for people to travel 60 and above.


Like I say, we're not yet to the point where we have different speed limits at different times of the day.


----------



## phattonez

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Speed limit's in the US are a joke, almost all the roads have limits that are too low and most people simply ignore them so police easily earn money for the state writing tickets in speed traps.


Traffic police have mostly become just fundraisers for states. It's atrocious.


----------



## snowman159

nerdly_dood said:


> Like I say, we're not yet to the point where we have different speed limits at different times of the day.


Doesn't Texas have night speed limits?


----------



## geogregor

snowman159 said:


> Doesn't Texas have night speed limits?


I think they do have different limits. I drove I-10 from Louisiana to New Mexico and I think there were signs with these double limits, at least west of San Antonio. But I could be wrong as it was over 10 years ago.


----------



## Rail Claimore

geogregor said:


> I think they do have different limits. I drove I-10 from Louisiana to New Mexico and I think there were signs with these double limits, at least west of San Antonio. But I could be wrong as it was over 10 years ago.


Texas has a blanket 65mph speed limit at night, which is really annoying. It wouldn't be so bad if they raised it to 70 (and TxDOT has the power to do so).

The only roads that break this limit are some of the tollways operated by NTTA in the Dallas-Ft Worth area. The Bush Turnpike and Rayburn Tollway are both 70 for most of their distances with no lower night limit.


----------



## phattonez

Rail Claimore said:


> Texas has a blanket 65mph speed limit at night, which is really annoying. It wouldn't be so bad if they raised it to 70 (and TxDOT has the power to do so).
> 
> The only roads that break this limit are some of the tollways operated by NTTA in the Dallas-Ft Worth area. The Bush Turnpike and Rayburn Tollway are both 70 for most of their distances with no lower night limit.


What would be so bad about a realistic speed limit say 75 or 80? I mean, most drivers do it anyway, and don't the few that follow the low speed limit pose a threat to safety?


----------



## Xusein

I think 80 mph would be much more realistic than now.

The current standards have nothing to do with safety, but to make money. State police need to fill those quotas before the month's over you know.


----------



## Cosmoboy

Attus said:


> What I find strange is that although speed limit is 55 and 65 (i.e. normal in US but slow for Europe) a lot of cars drive slower than the one with the camera. So either he drives too fast or so many people think even 55/65 is too fast.


Maybe I could provide some insight to this...

I'm actually the person who made the video that Chris linked to (btw, thank you for the exposure!). At some points I was going over the limit because some people were hogging the left lanes by driving under the posted speed limit, and I have a limited amount of HD recording time (I use a Canon 7D, for anyone who knows the story with those...). At no point in the video did I go above 80 mph. When I speed up the videos, it sometimes give viewers (and myself) the illusion that I was going faster than I actually was. However, anywhere between 70 and 80 is my typical cruising speed if there isn't any congestion. I agree that the speed limits should be raised as I notice many people regularly going 80 and above when they think no one is looking.  Hope this helped!

If any of you are interested, here is a link to my newest video of I-395 into DC:


----------



## Danielk2

Nice vid. What software do you use to make those vids?


----------



## snowman159

Very nice videos, cosmoboy!

Out of curiosity, how did you mount your 7D on the dashboard?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

D5284_CM-96 by MoDOT Photos, on Flickr


----------



## Jschmuck

Just putting this out there, some of us (and increasingly more of us) are governed at certain speed limits in our commercial motor vehicles. My 18-wheeler is governed at 60 MPH throughout the majority of my company of 13,000 18-wheelers. A lot of other trucks are governed in the range of 60-70 MPH. So even though most of you want faster speed limits and think its PERFECTLY safe, a continued increase in someones speed will make it more unsafe because of a greater difference between your and my speed.


----------



## AUchamps

Jschmuck said:


> Just putting this out there, some of us (and increasingly more of us) are governed at certain speed limits in our commercial motor vehicles. My 18-wheeler is governed at 60 MPH throughout the majority of my company of 13,000 18-wheelers. A lot of other trucks are governed in the range of 60-70 MPH. So even though most of you want faster speed limits and think its PERFECTLY safe, a continued increase in someones speed will make it more unsafe because of a greater difference between your and my speed.


That's why you gotta be a self-owned driver. It's those company drivers that keep signing away their rights.


----------



## Jschmuck

> That's why you gotta be a self-owned driver. It's those company drivers that keep signing away their rights


I guess i should have mentioned this as well; either beginning in a few years or already has i don't remember, governors will be mandatory on all new tractors built at no more than 70 MPH, some are even trying to change that to 65MPH.

Sure you can say keep the old truck, but they won't last forever. Second, a lot of states have truck speed limits which are obviously lower than non-commercial traffic; Washington 60mph, Oregon 55, California 55, Montana, Indiana, Texas even has a truck speed limit.


----------



## Trilesy

KingNick said:


> Found a nice map about general speed limits. Texas is quite a clusterfuck ranging between 65 and 80 mph.
> 
> I also remember going 80 in Utah last year.


This map is a good example of one simple rule: The higher the density of population the lower the speed limit. As you can see North East (being the most populous part of the U.S.) has the lowest speed limits. It makes sense. 

But I still think they should raise speed limits by at least 5 mph everywhere.


----------



## JohnFlint1985

Nexis said:


> Forget 70 , we should make it 100 in rural areas across the country.


75 would be enough since everyone will go 10 miles over the limit anyways. I'd say that some interstate highways on certain parts should have unlimited speed since they are the same quality or even better than German autobahns. But make whole counties or even states 80mph is a bit too much. Not every road is suited for such speed and we have wayyyyy to many morons on the roads.


----------



## AUchamps

Jschmuck said:


> I guess i should have mentioned this as well; either beginning in a few years or already has i don't remember, governors will be mandatory on all new tractors built at no more than 70 MPH, some are even trying to change that to 65MPH.
> 
> Sure you can say keep the old truck, but they won't last forever. Second, a lot of states have truck speed limits which are obviously lower than non-commercial traffic; Washington 60mph, Oregon 55, California 55, Montana, Indiana, Texas even has a truck speed limit.


Well that's a damn shame then. I get that it's safety, and I suppose it's better then going completely Euro and banning Semis from the Interstates on Sundays, but still.


----------



## Rail Claimore

Jschmuck said:


> I guess i should have mentioned this as well; either beginning in a few years or already has i don't remember, governors will be mandatory on all new tractors built at no more than 70 MPH, some are even trying to change that to 65MPH.
> 
> Sure you can say keep the old truck, but they won't last forever. Second, a lot of states have truck speed limits which are obviously lower than non-commercial traffic; Washington 60mph, Oregon 55, California 55, Montana, Indiana, Texas even has a truck speed limit.


Texas' truck limit is 70, meaning you'll only see it separate on those extremely rural highway sections that are 75 or 80, so it's not a terribly big deal. But the truck limit in California, for instance, is ridiculous. I can understand those limits on steep grades like the Grapevine and Cajon Pass, but 15mph difference between trucks and passenger vehicles is generally not a good idea. That's why Illinois and Ohio did away with their separate truck limits last year.


----------



## mgk920

What's the normal big-rig truck/lorry speed limit on the otherwise 'unlimited' sections of the German Autobahn system? ISTR that it is in the range of 80 or 100 km/h. OTOH, driving safety is maintained in that the 'slower vehicles keep right' rule is rigidly enforced and adhered to.

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

European trucks are generally limited (mechanically) to 50 or 55 mph, in some cases to 60 mph. As far as I know only Russian trucks are not governed.


----------



## urbanlover

JohnFlint1985 said:


> 75 would be enough since everyone will go 10 miles over the limit anyways. I'd say that some interstate highways on certain parts should have unlimited speed since they are the same quality or even better than German autobahns. But make whole counties or even states 80mph is a bit too much. Not every road is suited for such speed and we have wayyyyy to many morons on the roads.


Studies show people drive the speed their most comfortable with no matter the speed limit that why it recommended that speed be set to 85th percentile of free flowing traffic


----------



## KingNick

Trilesy said:


> This map is a good example of one simple rule: The higher the density of population the lower the speed limit. As you can see North East (being the most populous part of the U.S.) has the lowest speed limits. It makes sense.
> 
> But I still think they should raise speed limits by at least 5 mph everywhere.


Apart from Oregon, Alaska and Hawaii. :|


----------



## Tom 958

Holy CRAP! I-94 at Telegraph Road, Dearborn, MI:








http://www.flickr.com/photos/sjb4photos/2708327060/


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Construction commenced this week to expand the I-635, the beltway around Dallas. The northern side will be widened with tolled HOV lanes, partially elevated and partially below grade. The freeway will be widened from 10 to as much as 16 lanes. The projected 2020 traffic volumes are 500.000 vehicles per day. The whole project cost $ 2.7 billion and is one of the largest project in the U.S.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

It's a very impressive project.


----------



## KingNick

So what is this gonna be? HOV or HOT lanes? Kinda confused here.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

HOT lanes I think. In Texas they call them "managed lanes".


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

HOV doesn't work so now the popular thing in America is keeping them for carpooling but also making them express toll lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

HOV commuters make up 12% in Greater Los Angeles. Which means out of 10 lanes it is justified to have 1 HOV lane. Usually there are two.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*New Jersey Turnpike*

A very large widening project is the New Jersey Turnpike in the state of... New Jersey. It will be widened for approximately 35 miles, from I-276 near Philadelphia to East Brunswick, extending the local-express setup.

The section from Mansfield northward will be widened from 6 to 12 lanes for about 28 miles. Another 10 miles will be widened from 10 to 12 lanes, making the 12-lane section approximately 70 miles long. 

The project started in 2009 and will be completed in 2014 at a cost of $ 2.7 billion. Most interchanges and all overpasses need to be rebuild.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

The wide part of the New Jersey Turnpike is great, the speed limit was 65mph I think, nobody was following it, easily going 80+.


----------



## Nexis

Coccodrillo said:


> A medium-low busy railway with 4 tph (trains per hour) per direction with 1.000 passengers each nearly equals in one hour a 2x2 motorway considering that most commuters travel alone, one in each car.
> 
> The example I love most is Milano-Seregno railway which carries around 35.000 passenger a day increasing from 13.000 without any new infrastructure - new capacity obtained much cheaper than any road widening.


This line serves a high commuter one of 20 in the Northeast , so its used by alot of people. So is 95 , which equally used by the same amount of commuters , but the 95 Daily usage has stayed flat. The Railway has risen , even without the future Penn Station connection , which i find interesting. The Feeder lines in CT have grown by 500-2,000 each but thats due to canceled Expressway projects like the Super 7 , No more Widenings on Route 8 and they Route 8 / Waterbury line TOD projects , TOD along Shore East has really added more ppl to the Rails. CT in recent years has come out with Desenification plans for all its cities and Railway corridor towns which will without a doubt add 10000s more to the Rail. There also building Rail connection services in all the larger towns , so people won't be tempted to drive to the stations instead taking Streetcars / Trams.... But this isn't limited to CT , Rhode Island and Massachusetts are doing the same.


----------



## Suburbanist

Tom 958 said:


> Ah, the uber-familiar plaint of the sprawl apologist. I've been told that far too many times to count, mostly by people with a vested interest in the status quo. Answer me this: if roads are irrelevant to the promotion of sprawl, then why are sprawl developers so interested and getting them built (as long as it's not at their expense)?


Sprawl is not necessarily good or bad in itself. It depends how it is managed. You get a whole train (pun intended) of unexpected (but foreseeable) consequences if you try to "tackle" sprawl like you'd tackle drugs, burglaries or illegal immigration:

- housing becomes more expensive per unit, let alone per built area

- retail space becomes more expensive, reducing competition and driving prices up

- families that don't bow to the "urban life" mantra, that'd rather have each child with its own bedroom and a private garden, start to outbid everybody else for the remaining single-house market, making single-houses (detached or not) a luxury

- in turn, this drive out lower income residents or greatly reduces their quality of housing. One of the most dark sides of "smart growth" is that is pushes low-income families into cramped apartments, or forces them to move out of a city that is "meant" not to be easily car-accessible. This push wages up - only to be spent with more expensive housing, feeding the loop

The greatest example of it: New York City. A city where median (far less distorted than average) income is 39% higher than median American household income, whilst the cost-of-living index was about 145-155 (100 being the national US average).

Seattle and Portland (particularly the latter) performed poorly: they became more expensive, more congested and with ever-increasing deficit-ridden transit systems (a financial unsustainable transit system will get "redder" - not "blacker" - when it is expanded and more services provided).



> Having said that, I really should give you a break. As a Dutchman, you've already seen one alternative for our future, and I can hardly blame you for not being impressed. Plenty of rail, even in combination with the Dutch enthusiasm for cycling and a degree of planning that the US will never come close to attaining, is not enough to yield a reasonably congestion-free transportation network, and it must be really irritating to hear people insist that it will.


Never underestimate the effect (mild) climate and a terrain that is COMPLETELY flat in 90% of the country has on this "cycling culture". Trains here, despite ubiquitous, will almost always yield SLOWER travel time than car - even with congestion - unless you live in close proximity (like 5 min walking) of some of its 240 train station - all of that in a country where 16,1 million people live in a land area the size of Maryland. 



> Where did you get the idea that I'm "gleeful" about any of this? Waste of societal resources on a massive scale is cause for alarm, not glee. I'll also point out: overbuilding itself is sideways to the issue of spawl versus sustainability, caused by a vast oversupply of capital that led, as usual, to a bubble economy that was destined to collaspe catastrophically, as it always does. Developers of all stripes have lost their shirts.


Credit considerations aside, oversupply of construction can be easily offset (automatically) by less construction activity the years following a real estate bubble burst.


----------



## Nexis

Here's my Big Dig pictures...

*Zakim Bridge
*

DSC03298 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC03287 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC03283 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC03279 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC03281 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC03272 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*Entrance to I-93 North form Essex Street
*

DSCN0134 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0127 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC03182 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC03183 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*Entrance to I-93 South form Essex Street
*

DSCN0120 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0124 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC03185 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC03186 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*I-90 East / West Interchange Complex in South Boston
*

DSC03170 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC03171 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC03168 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC03162 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC03164 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*I-90 East in Downtown / Back Bay Boston 
*

DSC03209 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC03105 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC03106 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC03107 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC03109 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC03110 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*Up Next > I-495 , I-90 , I-84 , I-684 , I-287 , I-87
*


----------



## ADCS

AUchamps said:


> Well I hope you're happy. All those "bad old developers" lost their shirts in the Financial Meltdown and will be down for the count for the foreseeable future.


Hopefully, local politics will be less corrupt as a result.



> I know developers(large and small), and they are good, honest people just like you and me. Is it so wrong that they want to buy up land, put down houses and stores, and make money from that?


Yes, when they do it in a wasteful manner with only instant profitability in mind, rather than long-term impact on the community and environment.



> We all want to make money, to be successful, to succeed. A lot of people have failed in the last 3 years and maybe that makes you happy that "developers" got hit the worst but I'm not gleeful about it at all.


Money is a means to an end, not the end itself. One of our biggest problems in American society is that we've confused the two. 



Suburbanist said:


> Sprawl is not necessarily good or bad in itself. It depends how it is managed. You get a whole train (pun intended) of unexpected (but foreseeable) consequences if you try to "tackle" sprawl like you'd tackle drugs, burglaries or illegal immigration:
> 
> - housing becomes more expensive per unit, let alone per built area


Not an issue if wages are concurrently rising.



> - retail space becomes more expensive, reducing competition and driving prices up


Once again, not an issue if wages are rising.



> - families that don't bow to the "urban life" mantra, that'd rather have each child with its own bedroom and a private garden, start to outbid everybody else for the remaining single-house market, making single-houses (detached or not) a luxury


Seems like paying a premium to get precisely what one wants is exactly how the market is supposed to work.



> - in turn, this drive out lower income residents or greatly reduces their quality of housing. One of the most dark sides of "smart growth" is that is pushes low-income families into cramped apartments, or forces them to move out of a city that is "meant" not to be easily car-accessible. This push wages up - only to be spent with more expensive housing, feeding the loop


Higher wages are a good thing. Low prices are not necessarily so, such as when they come at the expense of domestic jobs.



> The greatest example of it: New York City. A city where median (far less distorted than average) income is 39% higher than median American household income, whilst the cost-of-living index was about 145-155 (100 being the national US average).
> 
> Seattle and Portland (particularly the latter) performed poorly: they became more expensive, more congested and with ever-increasing deficit-ridden transit systems (a financial unsustainable transit system will get "redder" - not "blacker" - when it is expanded and more services provided).


Prices rise in these places not because of any inherent defect in the smart growth strategies; it's because places that are built in such a way attract a high level of demand. New York is expensive because it's 8 million people living in a small area, and more are constantly moving in. The Pacific NW also falls into this category - there's high demand for its inherent amenities, especially among people with high incomes. That's just the market at work.



> Never underestimate the effect (mild) climate and a terrain that is COMPLETELY flat in 90% of the country has on this "cycling culture". Trains here, despite ubiquitous, will almost always yield SLOWER travel time than car - even with congestion - unless you live in close proximity (like 5 min walking) of some of its 240 train station - all of that in a country where 16,1 million people live in a land area the size of Maryland.


There are other reasons to prefer the train than speed. Safety, cost, driving stress, etc. all factor into what mode of transportation one takes. At least in most parts of the Netherlands, there is an option.



> Credit considerations aside, oversupply of construction can be easily offset (automatically) by less construction activity the years following a real estate bubble burst.


Which kills jobs, collapses housing prices, lowering wages, which lowers sales of other goods, which leads to more layoffs, etc. What you're describing is the deflationary spiral of an oversupply crisis. That was one of the things that made the Great Depression as bad as it was. That "offset" makes the problem worse!


----------



## Xusein

Nice pics Nexis. Big Dig was very expensive, took forever, and had questionable management but the end product has been mostly good. No more aging overpasses all over downtown anymore and going through is less of a pain, it's a shame though with all the costs accrued, it doesn't look like other cities will be taking Boston's path anytime soon.

Zakim Bridge is pretty nice too, love it's design.


----------



## Middle-Island

philvia said:


> #1 rule for roads is that they'll _always_ be congested. the NJT could be expanded to an ungodly 24 lanes and it would still be congested. this project is an embarrassment to NJ.


Exactly. There's something ridiculous like that in DT Atlanta. And...still congested.


----------



## Tom 958

Xusein said:


> Nice pics Nexis. Big Dig was very expensive, took forever, and had questionable management but the end product has been mostly good. No more aging overpasses all over downtown anymore and going through is less of a pain, it's a shame though with all the costs accrued, it doesn't look like other cities will be taking Boston's path anytime soon.
> 
> Zakim Bridge is pretty nice too, love it's design.


The poured-in-place box girder bridges and curved tubular sign supports look rather Californian, which is especially startling in the snow. 



Middle-Island said:


> Exactly. There's something ridiculous like that in DT Atlanta. And...still congested.


Uh, no. It's ten basic lanes, two HOV's, and a number of auxilliary lanes varying from three to negative two. Big, but not ridiculous, especially for a city of that size.


----------



## Nexis

*I-495 North in Mass
*

DSC03334 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC03335 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC03336 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC03337 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*I-290 West in Downtown Worcester
*

DSC03338 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0182 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0183 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*Worcester Union Station ... Serving MBTA Worcester line , Amtrak Lakeshore limited , future Amtrak High Speed Rail service , MBTA Woonsocket and New London lines**& Future Worcester Streetcar network*


DSCN0184 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0185 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0186 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0187 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0188 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0189 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*Skipping to I-90 West
*

DSCN0192 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0193 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*Exiting to I84 West
*

DSCN0194 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0195 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*I-84 West Toll Gate
*

DSCN0196 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0197 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0198 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr



DSCN0200 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0202 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*Entering Connecticut
*

DSCN0204 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*Up Next > I-84 in CT and I-684 / 287
*


----------



## Middle-Island

Tom 958 said:


> Uh, no. It's ten basic lanes, two HOV's, and a number of auxilliary lanes varying from three to negative two. Big, but not ridiculous, especially for a city of that size.


10 + how many?...And still congested.

Atlanta is the 4th worst ranked city for traffic (Forbes). Behind only sprawler DC, the SF Bay area, and Los Angeles metro. Traffic congestion eventually becomes a handicap in attracting businesses to a city. Not to mention how it's a definite quality of life consideration in the choice of metro areas in relocating. Being a suburban Long Islander, I would definitely concur with that.



> There is no shortage of hard data. A recent University of California at Berkeley study covering thirty California counties between 1973 and 1990 found that, for every 10 percent increase in roadway capacity, traffic increased 9 percent within four years' time. For anecdotal evidence, one need only look at commuting patterns in those cities with expensive new highway systems. *USA Today published the following report on Atlanta: "For years, Atlanta tried to ward off traffic problems by building more miles of highways per capita than any other urban area except Kansas City ... As a result of the area's sprawl, Atlantans now drive an average of 35 miles a day, more than residents of any other city."* This phenomenon, which is now well known to those members of the transportation industry who wish to acknowledge it, has come to be called induced traffic.
> 
> The mechanism at work behind induced traffic is elegantly explained by an aphorism gaining popularity among traffic engineers: *"Trying to cure traffic congestion by adding more capacity is like trying to cure obesity by loosening your belt." *Increased traffic capacity makes longer commutes less burdensome, and as a result, people are willing to live farther and farther from their workplace.


http://www.city-data.com/forum/dallas/729057-new-toll-road-east-highway-75-a-2.html


----------



## Nexis

Middle-Island said:


> 10 + how many?...And still congested.
> 
> Atlanta is the 4th worst ranked city for traffic (Forbes). *Behind only sprawler DC*, the SF Bay area, and Los Angeles metro. Traffic congestion eventually becomes a handicap in attracting businesses to a city. Not to mention how it's a definite quality of life consideration in the choice of metro areas in relocating. Being a suburban Long Islander, I would definitely concur with that.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.city-data.com/forum/dallas/729057-new-toll-road-east-highway-75-a-2.html


Its rapidly changing to Dense DC.....you blink and sprawl is gone.....meanwhile on the NOVA side the same is happening.....and in Maryland. The population is also shifting....to along Transit corridors...


----------



## Nexis

*Heres I-84 West in CT
*

DSCN0205 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*Approaching Metro Hartford...entering the HOV lanes
*

DSCN0207 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0209 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0210 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0213 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0214 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*Downtown Hartford in the Distance
*

DSCN0215 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0216 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0217 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0218 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0219 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*City of Hartford / West Hartford
*

DSCN0221 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0222 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0223 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0224 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*Downtown Hartford
*

DSCN0226 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0228 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0229 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0230 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0233 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*Skipping to Waterbury,CT
*

DSCN0234 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0236 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*Double Decker Interchange of I-84 / CT 8 in Waterbury
*

DSCN0237 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*Contuing West of I-84
*

DSCN0239 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0240 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0248 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*Crossing Lake Lillinoah 
*

DSCN0249 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*Entering Newtown,CT
*

DSCN0250 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0251 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0252 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0254 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0257 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*City of Danbury
*

DSCN0259 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0261 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0265 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0267 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0268 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0269 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0273 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*Entering NY state...
*

DSCN0274 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nexis said:


> Its rapidly changing to Dense DC.....you blink and sprawl is gone.....meanwhile on the NOVA side the same is happening.....and in Maryland. The population is also shifting....to along Transit corridors...


Do you ever check Google Earth? DC is massively sprawled.


----------



## Nexis

ChrisZwolle said:


> Do you ever check Google Earth? DC is massively sprawled.


Yea , but the changeover is happening and fast. Form the core outwards.....in NOVA and Maryland its happening along the Transit corridors and outward.


----------



## Nexis

Here is the rest of my journey....

*I-84 West in NY...
*

DSCN0275 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0277 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0278 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*Exiting....
*

DSCN0279 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0280 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*I-684 South
*

DSCN0281 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*Exit to the Saw Mill River Parkway...
*

DSCN0286 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0287 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0289 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*End of I-684 , exiting onto I-287 West
*

DSCN0291 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0292 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*Downtown White Plains in the Distance
*

DSCN0294 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0296 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*Newer part of I-287
*

DSCN0297 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0299 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*I-87 Interchange...
*

DSCN0300 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*I87/287 West...
*

DSCN0301 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0302 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0303 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0305 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*Tappan Zee Bridge....
*

DSCN0307 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0308 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0309 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0310 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN0313 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## Tom 958

Middle-Island said:


> 10 + how many?...And still congested.


Dude, I'm on your side. I don't like sprawl, either, and I fought it hard for several years. But you said that there was a twenty lane freeway in downtown Atlanta, and there isn't. :nuts:


----------



## urbanlover

Xusein said:


> Nice pics Nexis. Big Dig was very expensive, took forever, and had questionable management but the end product has been mostly good. No more aging overpasses all over downtown anymore and going through is less of a pain, it's a shame though with all the costs accrued, it doesn't look like other cities will be taking Boston's path anytime soon.
> 
> Zakim Bridge is pretty nice too, love it's design.


The Big Dig is cool, but I kinda wish I had the chance to drive the green monster with the amazing views it must have given of downtown.


----------



## goldbough

philvia said:


> #1 rule for roads is that they'll _always_ be congested. the NJT could be expanded to an ungodly 24 lanes and it would still be congested. this project is an embarrassment to NJ.


I never thought about it that way, but that makes sense. The reason these downtown interstates are so congested is not necessarily the number of vehicles, but that most of the drivers want to get off or on the road within a relatively few exits.


----------



## Trilesy

Thanks for good report, Nexis. I wanna drive that route sometime too.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

>


I remember taking this road early morning in the summer, cool drive coming from the mountains.


----------



## Xusein

urbanlover said:


> The Big Dig is cool, but I kinda wish I had the chance to drive the green monster with the amazing views it must have given of downtown.


I suppose so, but there are still nice views of the skyline to be had when driving up I-93 before it goes underground.


----------



## cristof

USA...best for sprawling away houses...offices and shady retail parks...my good...i which i could drive on these highways just to feel the American's freedom we seriously dont have here on the other side...


----------



## Penn's Woods

cristof said:


> USA...best for sprawling away houses...offices and shady retail parks...my good...i which i could drive on these highways just to feel the American's freedom we seriously dont have here on the other side...


In my first job after college (university), I had to drive 50 or 60 km each way (the route that was faster in the evening rush was significantly longer). In rush hours, that sort of sprawl is not fun day after day. Now I live in a near-downtown neighborhood of a major city, a 12-minute walk from my job, and within walking distance of lots of other things. I like driving but I don't miss *having to* drive every day. Both sorts of development pattern have their good points and their bad points.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

cristof said:


> USA...best for sprawling away houses...offices and shady retail parks...my good...i which i could drive on these highways just to feel the American's freedom we seriously dont have here on the other side...


I love driving but you really lose desire when you have poor roads combined with congestion and stupid drivers. It would be nice if I didn't have to depend on my car and be able to use it just for fun not a necessity.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interstate 70 has been closed to all traffic across Missouri for over 250 miles. I-44 in Oklahoma is also closed for the next 96 hours due to snow storms.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

An interesting recently completed bridge project in Kansas City was the replacement of the I-29 Paseo Bridge across the Missouri River by the new Bond Bridge. The new bridge has 6 lanes opposed to the old 4-lanes, and eliminates one of the relatively few bottlenecks in the area.


----------



## bogdymol

I found some interesting pics of US interstate highways shot during this days:

_A sign on I-70 and Pittman Road in Independence, Mo. alerts drivers that I-70 is closed East of I-470 Tuesday evening following a day of blowing snow closed much of I-70 between Kansas City and St. Louis on Tuesday, Feb. 1, 2011. Kansas City Star / John Sleezer










A vehicle is overturned along Interstate 680 in Omaha, Neb., Tuesday, Feb. 1, 2011. AP / Nati Harnik










A car landed vertically in a snowbank after a multiple vehicle accident on Interstate 93 during a snow storm north of Salem, N.H. No one was injured. The Eagle-Tribune / Tim Jean










A a group of people stop along Interstate 91 to help push a car out of a snow bank during a winter storm in Windsor, Conn., Wednesday, Feb. 2, 2011. AP / Jessica Hill










Dallas Fire and Rescue workers try to contain Diesel fuel that leaked from a jackknifed 18-wheeler Tuesday, Feb. 1, 2011 in the northbound lanes of Interstate 35E. Traffic was stopped in both directions after several 18-wheelers either jackknifed of came to a total stop on ice covered interstate near Pleasant Run Road. The Dallas Morning News / Jim Mahoney








_

All pictures were taken from here

Some more pictures of US non-interstate routes are here.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interstate 10 in Houston (Katy Freeway) before and after widening:


----------



## s.p.hansen

I-80 connecting with I-15 and Utah 201 in Salt Lake City.





*By FreewayBrent*


----------



## FM 2258

I-275westcoastfl said:


> I love driving but you really lose desire when you have poor roads combined with congestion and stupid drivers. It would be nice if I didn't have to depend on my car and be able to use it just for fun not a necessity.


I want to drive when I want to, not when I need to. I wish I could take a train to work, the airport, concerts and other venues.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Exactly! It would be nice to go to the club or a party and be able to drink and not worry who will drive. Be nice to be able to take a train to the nice downtown's in my metro and not drive a broken road network. At least you guys in Texas have great roads, I miss the roads in Dallas.


----------



## sonysnob

FM 2258 said:


> I want to drive when I want to, not when I need to. I wish I could take a train to work, the airport, concerts and other venues.


I think that is the most true statement I have read in a while.


----------



## Suburbanist

sonysnob said:


> I think that is the most true statement I have read in a while.


except that those who don't want to drive usually want the 88% of adult Americans who use cars regularly to pay, fund and subsidize massively financially-burden PT systems out of their willingness not to be obliged to drive.


----------



## Nexis

Suburbanist said:


> except that those who don't want to drive usually want the 88% of adult Americans who use cars regularly to pay, fund and subsidize massively financially-burden PT systems out of their willingness not to be obliged to drive.


PT is a tiny compared to what else states subsidize and the smart growth that comes form PT is a good return..... 88% of Americans is shrinking....as my generation is moving towards PT and Urban living....


----------



## g.spinoza

Suburbanist said:


> except that those who don't want to drive usually want the 88% of adult Americans who use cars regularly to pay, fund and subsidize massively financially-burden PT systems out of their willingness not to be obliged to drive.


It's how a normal country usually works. Everyone pays for everything, even for services they don't use... it seems fair to me. That's why I like German Autobahns which are tax-funded and I don't like Italian ones.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

g.spinoza said:


> It's how a normal country usually works. Everyone pays for everything, even for services they don't use...


I agree in principle, but it is not meant as a free hand to spend as much money without ever looking at the returns or necessity...


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ Agreed, Chris.


----------



## Suburbanist

Nexis said:


> PT is a tiny compared to what else states subsidize and the smart growth that comes form PT is a good return..... 88% of Americans is shrinking....as my generation is moving towards PT and Urban living....


Apparently US Census Bureau and BEA disagrees with your far-reaching statements.

This being said, important issue here is that the reason by which public transportation subsidies are so low in US is, exactly, because their usage is too low to make a dent on budgets.

But this is far from an American-only issue: the worst that could happen to most urban transit systems (long-distance medium or high-speed rail operates under some different set of premises) is to have their ridership increased to the point it requires more vehicles and a larger payroll to run, as many PT systems are inherited flawed on their financial design and will never be able to reach profitability unless massive, once-in-a-lifetime assumptions about household incomes, expectations of mobility or else changes.

New York City cannot break even with its MTA, and we are talking about the metro are with the highest per-capita income in US and the higher transit usage in North America. If NYC cannot balance its PT authority's books, no other American city can.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Suburbanist said:


> except that those who don't want to drive usually want the 88% of adult Americans who use cars regularly to pay, fund and subsidize massively financially-burden PT systems out of their willingness not to be obliged to drive.


Well, the small number of adult Americans who _don't_ drive are helping pay for their roads, and - everyone always forgets this - making their travels easier by reducing traffic a little (or a lot, in some places)....


----------



## Penn's Woods

Suburbanist said:


> Apparently US Census Bureau and BEA disagrees with your far-reaching statements.
> ....


I'm not sure about that: 2010 numbers are starting to come out and cities that have been losing population for decades - such as Newark, of all places - gained over the last decade. We can't go on paving over the countryside indefinitely. And I wonder how many people actually choose 30- or 40-mile commutes as opposed to just having no alternative.


----------



## Xusein

Any non-toll highways that have made a profit?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> The question is what happens when gas spikes?


Nothing. Gas in Europe is 2 - 3 times more expensive than in the US and still 86% of the mileage is done by passenger car. In the US this is 92%.

The only reason why sprawl is slowing down in the Northeast is the lack of population growth.


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## Nexis

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nothing. Gas in Europe is 2 - 3 times more expensive than in the US and still 86% of the mileage is done by passenger car. In the US this is 92%.
> 
> The only reason why sprawl is slowing down in the Northeast is the lack of population growth.


I remember back in 2008 when it spiked , that was enough to hurt beach towns without Rail access and hurt resort towns , it also hurt small businesses.....so it wasn't nothing....


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## ChrisZwolle

That's because the 2008 increase was a shock spike. If it increases slowly people can adapt by buying more fuel efficient cars. It would also help if people could buy more diesel cars as they have a 2 times better mileage than the average American car.

With $ 6 per gallon diesel in the Netherlands I spend as much on fuel per mile as an American with $ 3 per gallon gasoline. The better fuel mileage offsets the higher fuel price.

The countries with the highest fuel prices in Europe are also the wealthiest countries. Because we adapted to it.


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## sonysnob

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nothing. Gas in Europe is 2 - 3 times more expensive than in the US and still 86% of the mileage is done by passenger car. In the US this is 92%.


I bet, though, that the per capita distance traveled daily in Europe is far less than it is in the US or Canada.


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## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> A gas tax is a subsidy?


I don't know if "subsidy" is the right word, but it can certainly be a tool of policy - want to discourage smoking, raise cigarette taxes; want to incentivize the use of transit, raise gas taxes and steer the money to transit systems so they can improve their infrastructure or hold fares down. We did get a bit of a spike in transit use in the U.S. when the price of gas increased rapidly in 2008....

I was just thinking about this yesterday: just taking Pennsylvania as an example, lots of people upstate object to funding transit in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. Well, it would be interesting to try an experiment: for, say, two years every county in the state funds its own highways and transit. I expect the result would be noticeable improvement in Philadelphia (about 15 percent of the population of the state lives in the city)...and the Interstates in rural areas falling apart.

I'm not advocating that, of course.
For that matter, I'm against increasing the gas tax, because too many people have no choice but to drive, so it's regressive. We need more money for transit _and_ roads, but we need to distribute that tax burden fairly. Our national allergy to taxes and government spending risks pushing us into third-world status. [climbs off soapbox]


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## Penn's Woods

sonysnob said:


> I am amazed at how many large American cities totally lack public transit. I remember on one of my first visits to Detroit, back maybe six years ago or so, I kept wondering where their subway network was.
> 
> It's a good thing Gas Tax's are cheap in America, because there really aren't any other commuting options.


There are other options in some cities; Detroit (as you probably know) has had a particularly bad experience with deindustrialization - I don't know if any other city of its size has declined quite so dramatically.


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## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nothing. Gas in Europe is 2 - 3 times more expensive than in the US and still 86% of the mileage is done by passenger car. In the US this is 92%.
> 
> The only reason why sprawl is slowing down in the Northeast is the lack of population growth.


Actually, we did have a measurable increase in transit use, in those cities that have decent systems but where people traditionally drive (Washington for example) when gas went up so fast in 2008.

And even if gas is so much cheaper than it is in Europe, a significant increase would still mean that some people with tight budgets would need to adjust: more money spent on gas means, say, cheaper food (or if you're a notch or two more comfortable, fewer evenings out) I know European gas prices would limit how much driving I do, and I'm a person who doesn't have to drive every day. Visits to the parents, errands in the suburbs, road trips and just drives into the country for fun are what I do.

During 2008, the New York Times published an article on the effect the increase in fuel prices was having in rural areas - people were literally quitting jobs because they couldn't afford to keep low-wage jobs that were 20 or 30 miles from where they lived. EDIT: here's that article: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/09/business/09gas.html


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## g.spinoza

sonysnob said:


> I bet, though, that the per capita distance traveled daily in Europe is far less than it is in the US or Canada.


That would be and interesting fact to know. Does anyone knows more about it?


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## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> That's because the 2008 increase was a shock spike. If it increases slowly people can adapt by buying more fuel efficient cars. It would also help if people could buy more diesel cars as they have a 2 times better mileage than the average American car.
> 
> With $ 6 per gallon diesel in the Netherlands I spend as much on fuel per mile as an American with $ 3 per gallon gasoline. The better fuel mileage offsets the higher fuel price.
> 
> The countries with the highest fuel prices in Europe are also the wealthiest countries. Because we adapted to it.


Here, you may be right. I don't know much about diesel, though - it's not very common here: isn't it fairly dirty?


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## ChrisZwolle

Diesel was dirty in the 1980's, and that's how many Americans probably remember it. Nowadays Diesel is quite clean, especially with particle filters they are cleaner than gasoline cars. They are more efficient for our natural resources and have significant less CO2 emissions due to the better fuel efficiency. Even a 3500 lbs passenger car can get around 45 mpg on diesel nowadays.


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## Nexis

Penn's Woods said:


> Actually, we did have a measurable increase in transit use, in those cities that have decent systems but where people traditionally drive (Washington for example) when gas went up so fast in 2008.
> 
> And even if gas is so much cheaper than it is in Europe, a significant increase would still mean that some people with tight budgets would need to adjust: more money spent on gas means, say, cheaper food (or if you're a notch or two more comfortable, fewer evenings out) I know European gas prices would limit how much driving I do, and I'm a person who doesn't have to drive every day. Visits to the parents, errands in the suburbs, road trips and just drives into the country for fun are what I do.
> 
> During 2008, the New York Times published an article on the effect the increase in fuel prices was having in rural areas - people were literally quitting jobs because they couldn't afford to keep low-wage jobs that were 20 or 30 miles from where they lived. EDIT: here's that article: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/09/business/09gas.html


All Northeastern Transit systems have pasted there 1960s usage levels and that was before you saw a drop in ridership....alot of people place regional usage at 6 million by 2030 for Northeast which includes MARC , Septa , NJt , LIRR , MNRR , RIPTA , CTDOT , VRE and MBTA / Amtrak. There is a big push in alot of cities to make them attractive again and its working to a certain extent. Families are moving to Railway suburbs , but are changing there commuting habits. The 2008 crisis added at least 200-500 people per regional rail line that have stayed....


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## mapco

Interstate A-2









Interstate A-1









Interstate A-4


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## geogregor

American roads and bridges are in quite bad condition. Many structures of the Interstate Highway system are approaching its 40-50 years lifespan and have to be replaced. All the money gained from eventual rise of road or gasoline taxes should be spend on fixing it. 
I agree with Chris that rise in price of fuel will rather change American cars (make them more fuel efficient) than change transportation system towards public transport. There will be some increase in share of public transport but it will never reach European levels.


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## mgk920

Penn's Woods said:


> Here, you may be right. I don't know much about diesel, though - it's not very common here: isn't it fairly dirty?


The 'Eurodiesel' engine of today is about as far from the old smoky wrecks of over a generation ago here in the USA as modern diesel railroad locomotives are from steam.

They are completely different animals and I'd love to see then introduced en-masse into the USA. A week ago there was a Super Bowl ad from a carmaker hinting at that.

Mike


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## I-275westcoastfl

Diesel would mean oil companies would make less money and the lobbyists wouldn't be happy about that.


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## ChrisZwolle

If we run out of natural resources 50 years earlier people aren't going to be happy about it either...


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## I-275westcoastfl

I highly doubt with all the money at stake they'd let that happen.


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## Highwaycrazy

I-275westcoastfl said:


> I highly doubt with all the money at stake they'd let that happen.


Anything is possible. 

At the current rate, we are sucking the Oil supplies bone dry. There needs to be some tax increases on gas guzzlers to encourage more fuel efficient transport.


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## I-275westcoastfl

We still have plenty left though, even then when it becomes difficult to profit you know such a large industry won't give up and just say hey we are out. I am in full support of mass use of diesel in the US and funding for alternative energy but the companies will stick with what gives them the most amount of return.


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## ok2

geogregor said:


> American roads and bridges are in quite bad condition. Many structures of the Interstate Highway system are approaching its 40-50 years lifespan and have to be replaced. All the money gained from eventual rise of road or gasoline taxes should be spend on fixing it.
> I agree with Chris that rise in price of fuel will rather change American cars (make them more fuel efficient) than change transportation system towards public transport. There will be some increase in share of public transport but it will never reach European levels.


^^ http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/roads-take-beating-from-brutal-weather-12864969

hno:


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## Nexis

geogregor said:


> Come on men. People were happy to jump into the cars. No one forced them.
> It has more to do with people's attitudes toward public transport and also nation culture and habits in general. American society is much more individualistic than German one.
> Germany is also much, much more densely populated than USA.


They ripped up miles of lines , alot business owners were opposed to this.....people didn't have any other choice but the car. Fortunately the Northeastern states have committed to 19,000 miles of restored Regional , Intercity , Suburban and Urban Rail....opinions towards Rail are more welcoming and opposition is hard to find. Most projects are very cheap and get great returns like a MOM network it will only cost 380 Million $$$ and get a projected 120,000 riders... Another project will only cost 90 Million and get at least 40,000.... Society outside the NE is slowly changing.....people are fed up with traffic and endless road expansions that cost this country a trillion $$ to subsidize over the past decade... Rail has a Return ...in Smart Growth Developments which can bring millions of $$$ to the local economies and 100s of jobs to local towns


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## Suburbanist

^^ New Jersey Turnpike expansion, alone, will carry more extra traffic than all rail projects in the area, combined. It will help unclog I-95 that runs west of it.


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## mgk920

You also have to recall that despite the far higher fuel prices and light-years more extensive passenger rail (of all types) network in Europe as compared to North America, I saw an article fairly recently that said that fully 80% of all intercity trips in Europe are still by car.

I am very neutral when it comes to which modes to develop and expand vs any others, I am most interested in getting the best public benefit for the public treasure that is spent on it.  They are all different.

Mike


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## Nexis

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ New Jersey Turnpike expansion, alone, will carry more extra traffic than all rail projects in the area, combined. It will help unclog I-95 that runs west of it.


Actually the MOM network and West Trenton lines will carry 160,000 people when completed later this decade. Feeding into other lines....so it will carry the same amount , probably less. The Widening project will not really help traffic , maybe in some aspects. But those 2 Rail projects will serve the communities that mostly use the NJTPK & GSP. And how do you know what the rail usage projections are? The West Trenton line will service the NJ 27 corridor.... There are other lines aswell... Ridership projections are always met , so i'm not worried about low usage. These 3 lines will service the fastest growing areas of the state and help with the bus congestion. Theres also the proposed New Brunswick LRT system that would connect a few Railways and college campuses , that will get around 40,000.. Theres also the Riverline Extensions that take the aim at South Jersey and grab people before they get to the highway areas. The South Jersey Light Rail network will add 10-20,000 per line. So were at 215,000 , which is more then the NJTPK......


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## ChrisZwolle

You're comparing an entire network with a single section of Turnpike. That's apples and oranges.

Somehow people think that it's all better in Europe, but we also dismantled a large amount of our railway lines. In the Netherlands hundreds of miles were dismantled, often already before 1930. In other countries the network remains but have 2 hour train intervals which are basically useless.

In Europe, 85% of the travel mileage is done by car. In the United States this is 92%. There isn't much difference overall. In the United States, bus services mostly substitute the lack of a transit system. Buses are much cheaper to operate.


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## Nexis

ChrisZwolle said:


> You're comparing an entire network with a single section of Turnpike. That's apples and oranges.
> 
> Somehow people think that it's all better in Europe, but we also dismantled a large amount of our railway lines. In the Netherlands hundreds of miles were dismantled, often already before 1930. In other countries the network remains but have 2 hour train intervals which are basically useless.
> 
> In Europe, 85% of the travel mileage is done by car. In the United States this is 92%. There isn't much difference overall. In the United States, bus services mostly substitute the lack of a transit system. Buses are much cheaper to operate.


Yea but the Network targets the towns that use the Turnpike the most... Buses are getting maxed out in that part of Jersey , so Rail is being restored. Rail is only restored along Dense corridors. My state is really tired of widening and building New Freeways which are unpopular and hard to fund....so thats another Reason why Rail is being pushed. Rail is not being pushed on corridors that will get low usage only dense corridors... I know you dismantled part of your network , you also have a decent system in place atm. We only have 13 corridors. Buses actually are used to fill for rail service in some areas awaiting restored Rail but its causing congestion issues and towns and small cities are demanding Rail. The MOM network targets towns that feed into NJ 33 , NJTPK , GSP , US 9 and I-195 to a small extent. The Lackawanna line targets I80 and I-380 towns in NJ and PA its currently under reconstruction. The West Trenton line would service a part of the state that is rich but commutes to NYC , mainly by the NEC which is congested or drives up NJ 27 or US 1. The Northern Branch corridor services a undeserved part of Bergen County that mainly commutes to Jersey City and Lower Manhattan...there are no highways other then the PIP on this side of the county. The Glassboro light Rail would service the congested and growing NJ 55 corridor and well supported by local towns and communities. The Bergen - Passaic Light Rail line will service the NJ 4 & I80 communities its more of a connector line between 2 cities and regional rail....that line is being redone atm due to local opposition form towns left out. The Philpsburg connections will serve the growing parts of Eastern PA , Buses are heavily congested and the Rail line will also give a spark to the local economies. These lines will service the I78 , NJ 31 , NJ 57 , US 22 , US 206 corridors which are becoming congested.... Most NJT lines have 25-45 min service , more inbound then outbound but its still decent. Ive looked at many European lines and there less then what we offer here.

*Projects to be completed by 2020
*
MOM network
Lackawanna line (NJ section)
West Trenton line
West Trenton Riverline Extension 
Northern Branch Corridor
Glassboro Light Rail line
Pennsuaken Transit Center
PATH extension to EWR
NJT HBLR 440 Extension 
Bergen-Passaic Light Rail
Philpsburg Connections (2-3 lines)


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## hoosier

ChrisZwolle said:


> In Europe, 85% of the travel mileage is done by car. In the United States this is 92%. There isn't much difference overall. In the United States, bus services mostly substitute the lack of a transit system. Buses are much cheaper to operate.


Bus service "substituting" for rail transit is like saying Sunny D substitutes orange juice.

Bus transit is cheaper to operate but also slower, more polluting, and does not encourage new development. Many routes are only served by a couple of buses an hour, whereas rail transit has much greater frequency of service and much high ridership. One can travel from London to Berlin, and explore both cities and their suburbs without the need for a car. Try doing the same in Los Angeles and New York.


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## Suburbanist

hoosier said:


> Bus service "substituting" for rail transit is like saying Sunny D substitutes orange juice.
> 
> Bus transit is cheaper to operate but also slower, more polluting, and does not encourage new development.


The Interstate network encourages much development. You don't need extra encouragement save for a few selected areas.


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## hoosier

Suburbanist said:


> The Interstate network encourages much development. You don't need extra encouragement save for a few selected areas.


Double post


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## hoosier

Suburbanist said:


> The Interstate network encourages much development. You don't need extra encouragement save for a few selected areas.


Strip malls, fast food joints, and truck stops count as development, but not good development. Urban rail lines encourage and make possible high density, human based development that enables walking (the horror!) and interpersonal communication.


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## Nexis

To be honest the South will continue down the Path of sprawl but does anyone really care? The other regions of the US are slowly moving away form Sprawl....so you can look at it that way?


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## nerdly_dood

hoosier said:


> Bus service "substituting" for rail transit is like saying Sunny D substitutes orange juice.
> 
> Bus transit is cheaper to operate but also slower, more polluting, and does not encourage new development. Many routes are only served by a couple of buses an hour, whereas rail transit has much greater frequency of service and much high ridership. One can travel from London to Berlin, and explore both cities and their suburbs without the need for a car. Try doing the same in Los Angeles and New York.


The Greyhound between here and Roanoke runs twice a day.


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## ChrisZwolle

hoosier said:


> One can travel from London to Berlin, and explore both cities and their suburbs without the need for a car. Try doing the same in Los Angeles and New York.


While Europe has extensive intercity travel by train, don't expect a massive amount of people doing that over such distances... They use airplanes. There is no way Europeans would travel distances like Los Angeles - New York (or even Chicago - New York) by train by any significant numbers.

If Europeans travel long distances, they're either alone, on business, or with their family going on vacation. When they're on business, speed is important and they will mostly use the airplane for distances over 400 miles. If they're with their family, money and local mobility counts, hence they will be going by car up to 1000 miles. 

Try comparing the cost of 3 to 5 train tickets to the cost of a car trip. The difference is huge.


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## geogregor

hoosier;73814401One can travel from London to Berlin said:


> As Chris wrote most Europeans fly on such distances, some drive (if they have a lot of stuff to move or on family holiday) and very few uses trains.
> People traveling by train from London to Berlin are most likely to be train enthusiasts or American tourists using EuroRail passes.
> 
> Some people from America, especially pro public transit ones, have completely screwed view of Europe, like we are some sort of transit heaven they should aspire to. Guys, we have our own problems with rails, be a bit critical.
> I travel distance about 1000 miles couple of times a year and I never use train. Never. I don't know many people doing it. Distance of about 500 miles is probably maximum for most people (with exception of some high speed lines). Especially international train journeys are unpopular. Train would be much more expensive and would take much more time. Why would anyone take it? Again London - Paris/Brussels is rather exception confirming that rule.


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## Suburbanist

geogregor said:


> As Chris wrote most Europeans fly on such distances, some drive (if they have a lot of stuff to move or on family holiday) and very few uses trains.
> People traveling by train from London to Berlin are most likely to be train enthusiasts or American tourists using EuroRail passes.
> 
> Some people from America, especially pro public transit ones, have completely screwed view of Europe, like we are some sort of transit heaven they should aspire to. Guys, we have our own problems with rails, be a bit critical.
> I travel distance about 1000 miles couple of times a year and I never use train. Never. I don't know many people doing it. Distance of about 500 miles is probably maximum for most people (with exception of some high speed lines). Especially international train journeys are unpopular. Train would be much more expensive and would take much more time. Why would anyone take it? Again London - Paris/Brussels is rather exception confirming that rule.


Some patterns are remarkably similar in both sides of the Atlantic. "Summer peak drive" exists both here and there. Perhaps it is even more critical in Europe than in US.

Families travelling on long (1 week and longer) vacations often take long, multi-day trips from Northern Europe to "sunny" destinations in Spain, France and Italy. There is a massive exodus of people on cars, though, as in US, the average occupancy of cars on worst summer weekends is more than double the average occupancy in a normal day.


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## Lordpenguinton

I think for Brumtonion, you might like to live in Nevada. Very few squiggly roads. Wow, someone really has an issue with roads that aren't straight. Just so you know some highways in the U.S. of A. have some curvy bits. Maybe not like in England, but from time to time a motorist may encounter a hill or even a "mountain" that they have to reconnoiter with. Seriously someone not only has a problem non straight roads in their own country but thinks that somehow highways here are like God's gift to mankind, drive around Orlando, it's great, you'll probably wonder why an interchange in Birmingham UK has as many lanes as one at Disney World, which I here is somewhat popular with tourists.


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## Lordpenguinton

I think for some people who look at trains as the answer to their transit problems, they have to look at their transit problems. Why in the U.S. we don't have HSR in New England and the Mid Atlantic, Chicago and it's vicinity, and in California is amazingly dumb. We're a big country and these would be the areas that it would work in, but in some places it will never work. If we need 5 or 6 lane highways from Montgomery to Mobile Alabama great, just let me in San Francisco go from here to LA by train if me and my fellow citizens want it. The thing that pisses me off in this country is how train versus car travel is such a "political red versus blue" issue. We all don't live in the same place, don't expect us to get around the same way. By the way when you are paying 5 or 6 bucks a gallon or more for gas in a couple of months, I'll still have my 6 block WALK to work


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## Nexis

geogregor said:


> As Chris wrote most Europeans fly on such distances, some drive (if they have a lot of stuff to move or on family holiday) and very few uses trains.
> People traveling by train from London to Berlin are most likely to be train enthusiasts or American tourists using EuroRail passes.
> 
> Some people from America, especially pro public transit ones, have completely screwed view of Europe, like we are some sort of transit heaven they should aspire to. Guys, we have our own problems with rails, be a bit critical.
> I travel distance about 1000 miles couple of times a year and I never use train. Never. I don't know many people doing it. Distance of about 500 miles is probably maximum for most people (with exception of some high speed lines). Especially international train journeys are unpopular. Train would be much more expensive and would take much more time. Why would anyone take it? Again London - Paris/Brussels is rather exception confirming that rule.


For the Record , we don't want a European system.....were building a large scale system in this region...and thats all i care about. Outside the NE , build as many highways as you want....but in this region Rail is priority.... The Railway towns grew faster then the Auto towns , people are tired of traffic and are changing to Rail / Transit. Regional Rail ridership is 1.1 Million in NYC region and growing fast..... There aren't any lines here in the NE that are 1000 miles mostly 200-500 miles....


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## ChrisZwolle

> Regional Rail ridership is 1.1 Million in NYC region and growing fast.....


That's 550.000 people out of a population of 22.000.000


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## Nexis

ChrisZwolle said:


> That's 550.000 people out of a population of 22.000.000


Overall Transit ridership is 13 Million , which a big chunk....it grew by 3 million this past decade if i'm not mistaken. Its expected to hit 17 million by 2020....other regions are growing aswell... Penn station is used by 600,000 daily , Grand Central is used by 150,000 , Jamaica station is used by 200,000 , Newark Penn Station is used by 120,000 and Hoboken is used by 70,000 daily....so its more then 550,000 people. Its 1.1 million for all 3 systems. Regional Rail ridership is 980,000 , but the PATH , SI Railway are labeled Railways by the FRA , then theres the PATCO.


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## gigilamoroso

Suburbanist said:


> If you consider the variables you pointed out, I'd go for Houston Metro. If you consider population, Kansas City does nice also.


thanks; what about congestion in these metro areas?


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## Nexis

Penn's Woods said:


> Nexis, I approve of transit in theory and think we need it. Particularly in urban areas, we need to encourage transit use for everyone for whom it's practical, rather than clogging highways in rush hours. But your expectations that everyone will eagerly jump into trains if we fill the country with railroads are just unrealistic. I live a few blocks from 30th Street Station and have been on a train only once since I acquired a car. (Because I needed to be in the suburbs for a work thing in January and my car was blocked in by a mound of snow a plow had pushed up against it.) If I want to go to Washington, for example, for the afternoon, why should I walk to the station, wait until there's a train (and these days, book it in advance), spend over $100.00 round trip and have to get from Union Station to where I want to be, when I can drive more or less door-to-door on my own time and for a fraction of that cost? If I want to go to my parents for the weekend, it's easier on my mother if she doesn't have to drive to MetroPark to pick me up. Amtrak in the Northeast Corridor has gotten to be a luxury for people who make more money than I do and an overpriced necessity for people who don't own cars. In the rest of the country...?


I said the NE...outside the NE it won't work.....you can't reopen rural lines since they will barely get used. In the NE Rural lines are and will be used by a decent amount of riders..... Hopefully when the regional gaps along the NEC are filled more people will use the train. The Train form NYC to DC would only cost 30$. Theres a growing need for Rail in certain parts of the NE , where its been neglected like SE PA and Delaware.....we need to address those areas... We also have to address the cost of the trains....and speed. NJ - NY - CT - MA have done this by upgrading there networks and expanding them....other states have lagged and suffered.... SE PA has alot planned but funding has always been a issue in PA for both highways and rail transit...


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## kingchef

of the many opinions, arguments for or against, and written conversations on the subject of high speed rail in our country, one of the most sensible ones is made by nexis. the reality is that, while high speed rail might work well in the northeast, on the west coast, maybe in florida, and a very few additional places, i just don't understand these individuals who keep trying to push this concept for the nation. it is not fiscally responsible, the population in most areas fails miserably to justify such a thing, and it would be cost prohibitive for the average ridership. i don't see why these things aren't easily seen, and i have asked time and time again, who is it that is pushing this agenda throughout america? i could see the expansion of amtrak, and i would love to see the major cities of states connected via amtrak, and the return of the use of trains to travel to all parts of america through high speed rail. however, the cities that have light rail (because it looks cool, as i have been told on so many occasions) are having major difficulty filling seats. i don't know what the adr is in most of the smaller cities, such as slc, charlotte, for example, but cities like nashville, memphis, b'ham, and basically similarly sized cities could never justify the money spent on a major rail line connection to spend federal dollars and public money w/ such small metro populations.

i like the plan memphis has to put in light rail from the airport to downtown and tie it in to the downtown medical districts; however, to try to hook up the entire metropolitan area cannot be justified because of numbers and the unrealistic costs. currently, nashville, is trying to run something similar to an old coal burning or steam engine train (may be a prop from petticoat junction, lol) in order to appear that nashville is bringing in loads of people from the pastures---i think they are actually begging people to ride it---yet, again, these trains are obviously needed in areas where 8 to 13 million people are strung together, or where 3 to 7 million, etc exist. maybe, atlanta might qualify, houston, dallas-fort worth, but a definite lack of justification everywhere else, for both the money, the return, and so many other additional concerns.


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## ChrisZwolle

gigilamoroso said:


> thanks; what about congestion in these metro areas?


Kansas City is one of the least congested metro areas in the United States, along with several other midwest metro areas (like Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Denver, Albuquerque, Little Rock, Louisville, etc.)

Houston is known for being the only city which actually cut congestion in the past 20 years despite growing by approximately 2 million people. Still, congestion in Houston is significant. 

No major metropolitan area can be completely traffic-jam free. You can't have millions of people travel to work in a 2 - 3 hour time-frame while freeways have hourly lane capacities of approximately 2000 vehicles. However, it makes quite a difference if it are just slow patches and full exit ramps or completely jammed freeways with stationary traffic. Many people forget to take such differences into account.


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## Suburbanist

^^ Even with congestion, because car efficiency is linear throughout the commute (no waiting time for connections, no walking long strolls at each end), cities that are more car-based usually have less average or median commute time than transit-based ones. New York Metro, for instance, has the longest average US commute among all metropolitan areas (comparing individual cities is useless), even if it is the only metro where more than 30% of commuters use transit.

The reasoning is quite simple: if you add mere 10-min. walks in each end of a transit-based commute + 5-min. connection in the middle of the journey, you already stacked 2 x 25 = 50min. to your daily commute. Even if you have some quite jammed route, chances are you can easily beat a transit-based commute.


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## siamu maharaj

Also, people who bitch about congestion, you experience the same in subways. You can hardly breathe at times and can't choose to not stand next to a smelly person. I'd gladly spend 15 minutes more in my car than experience that. I must implore though, I'm not anti-transit AT ALL, unlike car-haters who are on a jihad against cars. In fact, whenever I've been in a city with subways, I've always used them except for in Chicago.


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## siamu maharaj

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ Even with congestion, because car efficiency is linear throughout the commute (no waiting time for connections, no walking long strolls at each end), cities that are more car-based usually have less average or median commute time than transit-based ones. New York Metro, for instance, has the longest average US commute among all metropolitan areas (comparing individual cities is useless), even if it is the only metro where more than 30% of commuters use transit.
> 
> The reasoning is quite simple: if you add mere 10-min. walks in each end of a transit-based commute + 5-min. connection in the middle of the journey, you already stacked 2 x 25 = 50min. to your daily commute. Even if you have some quite jammed route, chances are you can easily beat a transit-based commute.


THat's true. Walking to and from the station + switching trains + waiting can add considerable time to the travel. I'm sure most people don't just live next to a station and always arrive when the train arrives. In fact, even most stations are so big that from entrance to the platform it can take anything like 3-5 minutes.


----------



## Nexis

siamu maharaj said:


> Also, people who bitch about congestion, you experience the same in subways. You can hardly breathe at times and can't choose to not stand next to a smelly person. I'd gladly spend 15 minutes more in my car than experience that. I must implore though, I'm not anti-transit AT ALL, unlike car-haters who are on a jihad against cars. In fact, whenever I've been in a city with subways, I've always used them except for in Chicago.


Well at least they move unlike the Highways and Tollways that are sluggish.....i'm not a car hater....i'm trying to cut down on congestion , we also need to upgrade our highways in this country to Smart Highways that would solve half the issues... Highway spending accounts for 97% of the Transportation funding ,Transit accounts for only 3%...that should be 50/50...... We also need to stop building highways in states were the existing highways are near collapse..... We also need to raise the gas tax in most states to cover Highway spending...


----------



## Snowguy716

I'm just waiting for John Boehner to announce plans for a "gas tax holiday"... after which we will never have a gas tax again. You think the GOP will allow it to expire? You think the Democrats will fight the GOP on the issue? 

It's going to be an even darker era for our transit and roads as funds dry up to pay for them.


----------



## Nexis

Snowguy716 said:


> I'm just waiting for John Boehner to announce plans for a "gas tax holiday"... after which we will never have a gas tax again. You think the GOP will allow it to expire? You think the Democrats will fight the GOP on the issue?
> 
> It's going to be an even darker era for our transit and roads as funds dry up to pay for them.


Well most states use sales tax to fund there programs....and the ones that do fund the transit via gas or tolls are in the NE where the feds dump most of the $$$ for Transit... Will be fine , but you will suffer....hno: But this wouldn't have to be if they could fix the Govt....instead they leave it a mess...hno:


----------



## brewerfan386

This thread is about this:








not this:








resedabear on flickr
or this:








and *definitely* not these:


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## CNGL

Yes! For those topics, better go to the Subways and Urban Transport forum.
I liked that thing that was on I-238 Southbound on Street View. They have updated the images, so is no longer there.
_Yes, there is an I-238, but there's no I-38! I know the history about the 238 in the Bay area..._


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## ScraperDude

gigilamoroso said:


> thanks; what about congestion in these metro areas?


I just moved to Kansas City one week ago from Columbus, Ohio and I have yet to hit major congestion here. In Columbus there are few freeways and it would take me close to an hour to drive 22 miles to work via I-71 to Ohio 315 to the north Outerbelt (270). I'm interviewing for jobs here in KC and am living 10 miles north of the river/downtown and most of my interviews are in Overland Park, KS about 27 to 30 miles away and I can get down there in 30 minutes. Quite a difference than Columbus commutes. 
The Kansas City freeway system is massive and overbuilt in my opinion but there are bottle necks in the urban area of KC, MO that cause brief slow downs. 
KC soon will add I-49 to their list of Interstates which I have driven US71 numerous times in the past when I lived in Tulsa and it's primed and ready for the interstate upgrades. 

The most useless interstate bridge in KC metro IMO is I-70 which connects the two KCs. It should just be demolished and rerouted over the 670 bridge and decommission 670. 

I-435 also bottlenecks at the Missouri river crossing in the East. It goes from 3 and 4 lanes per side to 2 lanes each direction at the bridge which causes backups. There's still improvements needed here.


----------



## lambersart2005

Hey!
I alway was quite fascinated by the KC metro fwy network. But when I finally got there, I was a bit disappointed: Quite outdated, bad pavement, oooold signs, many deserted sections... especially in the MO part, surprisingly the KS suburbian fwys seemed to be a lot more modern - but to be honest, that was in 1999! Is it still anything like this? Btw, the city itself, I liked a lot! Really cool with downtown, crwon center, plaza area... I think many people really underestimate the city.


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## nerdly_dood

I'll be driving from Fairfax to Roanoke and back on Thursday next week by way of Interstate 66 and 81. I guess then I'll see how much worse the pavement got this winter...

My car needs to have its wheels balanced. I'll just blame the vibration on the pavement. It was a hard winter.


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## Suburbanist

nerdly_dood said:


> My car needs to have its wheels balanced. I'll just blame the vibration on the pavement. It was a hard winter.


Out of curiosity: how much does such service cost in a regular US repair shop or service station nowadays?


----------



## ScraperDude

lambersart2005 said:


> Hey!
> I alway was quite fascinated by the KC metro fwy network. But when I finally got there, I was a bit disappointed: Quite outdated, bad pavement, oooold signs, many deserted sections... especially in the MO part, surprisingly the KS suburbian fwys seemed to be a lot more modern - but to be honest, that was in 1999! Is it still anything like this? Btw, the city itself, I liked a lot! Really cool with downtown, crwon center, plaza area... I think many people really underestimate the city.


It is an underrated city but so far I'm impressed with it! The freeways here are in pretty good shape and since 1999 kcscout transport system has been implemented. Also MODOT but a new cable bridge for the interstate 29/35 Missouri river crossing. It opened this past November. 

What I'd like to see eventually is I72 extend across the northern tier of Missouri and ending at I29 in St. joseph


----------



## goldbough

ScraperDude said:


> The most useless interstate bridge in KC metro IMO is I-70 which connects the two KCs. It should just be demolished and rerouted over the 670 bridge and decommission 670.


When looking a map of this location I also noticed that I-70 takes an odd route. Even for people taking I-35 north or I-29, the connection is still better from I-670. I'm not sure about demolishing the road since it's already there, but at least switch the naming so I-70 flows better.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-70 and I-670 carry a combined traffic volume of 120,000 vehicles per day. You cannot just demolish either one, as this will have major implications not only for I-70 capacity, but also the whole routing of traffic around downtown Kansas City. For example the W-N and N-W connections on the I-35/I-670 interchange are missing. Also; the I-70/I-670 interchange in Kansas is also missing connections, plus I-35 has only 4 through lanes on the western loop of downtown KC. 

It's much better to demolish the entire industrial area at Kaw Point and turn it into a second CBD if necessary.


----------



## SpaceBender

Azazel said:


> bad bad bad bad bad. Sucks. What's next, separate lanes by ethnicity?


I think it's would be better if not using space frame, disturbing the view.









Make it simple, let the car drivers see the full sky view


----------



## nerdly_dood

Suburbanist said:


> Out of curiosity: how much does such service cost in a regular US repair shop or service station nowadays?


I'm generally not familiar with pricing on car repair, but it's had some work done on it - a broken valve stem on the tire was fixed at no cost (a real shocker)...a new set of engine bushings cost $250 installed...tire rotation, $20.


----------



## Tom 958

ChrisZwolle said:


> ...For example the W-N and N-W connections on the I-35/I-670 interchange are missing. Also; the I-70/I-670 interchange in Kansas is also missing connections, plus I-35 has only 4 through lanes on the western loop of downtown KC.


Indeed. That's surely a big part of the reason why I-70 was left on its legacy route instead of being moved to the more-direct I-670 corridor. Imagine the difficulty of properly signing connections to and from other Interstates, especially considering the morass of non-Interstate route overlaps that already exists in downtown KC. Plus, designating the new route as I-670 enabled Interstate designations to be applied to the entire KC inner belt, which is always a bit of a challenge when an inner beltway carries only two through Interstates.

Also note that the western connection of I-70 and I-670 assigns priority to neither route-- I-670 exits I-70 from the left but enters from the right. I suspect that the authorities hadn't decided how to handle routings when the design was approved, though that's just a guess. 

Between GPS and the familiarity of local drivers with their own road system, the number of drivers who choose the slightly-longer I-70 routing over the more-direct I-670 for a trip from Topeka to St. Louis will surely be very small.



> It's much better to demolish the entire industrial area at Kaw Point and turn it into a second CBD if necessary.


Yeah, with good _light rail_ service! :banana:


----------



## hoosier

Stuck in Bama said:


> These are not roads to nowhere, for example corridor X (I-22) will connect two mid-size metro areas in this region (Birmingham and Memphis). Again Southern states are also struggling with transportation budgets like anywhere else in the country.
> 
> This earmarked money cant just be spent on any road project. It has to qualify for the money.


Memphis and Birmingham were already connected by U.S. 78. Was an interstate connection really necessary?

What about building the northern leg of the Birmingham beltway? There is no traffic in that part of the county to warrant this road. What about extending I-85 through Selma to Meridian when U.S. 80 more than suffices? BOONDOGGLE.


----------



## hoosier

kingchef said:


> of the many opinions, arguments for or against, and written conversations on the subject of high speed rail in our country, one of the most sensible ones is made by nexis. the reality is that, while high speed rail might work well in the northeast, on the west coast, maybe in florida, and a very few additional places, i just don't understand these individuals who keep trying to push this concept for the nation. it is not fiscally responsible, the population in most areas fails miserably to justify such a thing, and it would be cost prohibitive for the average ridership. i don't see why these things aren't easily seen, and i have asked time and time again, who is it that is pushing this agenda throughout america? i could see the expansion of amtrak, and i would love to see the major cities of states connected via amtrak, and the return of the use of trains to travel to all parts of america through high speed rail. however, the cities that have light rail (because it looks cool, as i have been told on so many occasions) are having major difficulty filling seats. i don't know what the adr is in most of the smaller cities, such as slc, charlotte, for example, but cities like nashville, memphis, b'ham, and basically similarly sized cities could never justify the money spent on a major rail line connection to spend federal dollars and public money w/ such small metro populations.
> 
> i like the plan memphis has to put in light rail from the airport to downtown and tie it in to the downtown medical districts; however, to try to hook up the entire metropolitan area cannot be justified because of numbers and the unrealistic costs. currently, nashville, is trying to run something similar to an old coal burning or steam engine train (may be a prop from petticoat junction, lol) in order to appear that nashville is bringing in loads of people from the pastures---i think they are actually begging people to ride it---yet, again, these trains are obviously needed in areas where 8 to 13 million people are strung together, or where 3 to 7 million, etc exist. maybe, atlanta might qualify, houston, dallas-fort worth, but a definite lack of justification everywhere else, for both the money, the return, and so many other additional concerns.


Never mind this post being COMPLETELY off topic, but who in the Hell is promoting a nationwide HSR network? NO ONE. If mass transit is so unpopular, why are local tax increases overwhelmingly supported by the people to pay for increases transit services?

You built a straw man argument to justify your poorly punctuated rant.


----------



## Stuck in Bama

hoosier said:


> Memphis and Birmingham were already connected by U.S. 78. Was an interstate connection really necessary?
> 
> What about building the northern leg of the Birmingham beltway? There is no traffic in that part of the county to warrant this road. What about extending I-85 through Selma to Meridian when U.S. 80 more than suffices? BOONDOGGLE.


Birmingham and Memphis, two metro areas with over a million people each, was connected by a high traffic, mostly two lane, US surface highway. Obviously a interstate connection was needed. 

The I-85 extension is gonna spark development in the state's and probably one of the nation's poorest areas. The Northern Beltline would route mainly commercial truck traffic, etc around Birmingham. 

What the need of the I-69 extention from Indianapolis to Evansville?. Is there enough traffic to warrant an interstate connection.

*If you have an issue with how federal road dollars are being spent, then take it up with your representatives and senators.*


----------



## Xusein

Looking at the map, I-22 is definitely necessary.


----------



## Suburbanist

I guess the Interstate designation is less important than the fact it has to be a 2x2 grade-separated route. Of course, including it on the Interstate list means federal money available..

Now if one asks me about major Interstate links (not only metropolitan ones) I think US still misses most, I'd go for the following alignments:

- upgrading US-101 to full Interstate standards all the way from San Jose to Los Angeles

- Las Vegas - Phoenix (along US-93 corridor)

- Amarillo - Wichita Falls - Fort Worth (the route is now a patch of expressways and non-upgraded US highways), with a side extension of I-27 south of Lubbock to I-20.

- Kansas City - Springfield - Little Rock and a completion of the Shreverport - I30 link and a link of Pine Bluff with Greenville and Jackson (MS). 

- Montgomery - Tallahassee (as one can see, I think Deep South lacks many important connections).

- link I-64 (VA) with Morgantown (WV), opening a new Appalachian highway crossing

- a Kingsport - Columbus (OH) connection. That area is poorly served by old US routes meandering on the hilly/mountainous terrain

- a 30-year needed Norfolk - WIlmington link all the way though Delaware

- an Upstate NEw York Loop connecting I-81 to I-87 along the Canadian border + decent highway cross over Lake Champlain (NY-VT connections are a shame a.t.m.)

- Albany - Concord - Portland (ME) link, to offer a bypass for traffic routing south from the congest areas around Boston and New York metro. It would be a northern version of I-81: a route used heavily by long-distance freight trucks. 

- a highway alongside the Mississippi from Minneapolis to St. Louis

- finally, a connection from Duluth to St. Saint Marie (Canada border), to be linked with a NE extension of I-43 from Green Bay (MI) 



=========

I also have my dream unfeasible lists of highway projects, like some SE-NW highway all the way from Oregon to New Mexico via NV and UT.


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## mgk920

^^
The thing missing from your Duluth-SSM musing is traffic on the part of US 2 west of US 41. It is a lonely drive, indeed, on those looooong stretches of highly-engineered two-lanes. You can go for 10-20 minutes and not meet another vehicle that is going the other way.

East of US 41, yes, IMHO, it would be a good corridor for a potential I-route extension. The closer it gets to I-75, the busier it gets, especially during tourist season.

Mike


----------



## nerdly_dood

Morgantown already has I-68 and I-79, or so says Google Maps - what's that got to do with 64? I-66 is vastly closer anyway, and besides, it's too close to I-68, if you wanna get from Washington to Morgantown just use I-66 west, then I-81 north, then I-68 west and you're there.

A much better project IMO is to upgrade the entire length of I-81 in Virginia. It's got far too much traffic for a 4-lane highway, even just adding one lane each direction would vastly help. There have been plans thrown this way and that over the past decade about upgrading it but nothing's come of it. Perhaps the new intermodal railyard they're gonna build (or already building?) near Roanoke will help take some of the freight off...


----------



## Nexis

nerdly_dood said:


> Morgantown already has I-68 and I-79, or so says Google Maps - what's that got to do with 64? I-66 is vastly closer anyway, and besides, it's too close to I-68, if you wanna get from Washington to Morgantown just use I-66 west, then I-81 north, then I-68 west and you're there.
> 
> A much better project IMO is to upgrade the entire length of I-81 in Virginia. It's got far too much traffic for a 4-lane highway, even just adding one lane each direction would vastly help. There have been plans thrown this way and that over the past decade about upgrading it but nothing's come of it. *Perhaps the new intermodal railyard they're gonna build (or already building?) near Roanoke will help take some of the freight off...*


That stalled or is about to....due to Virgina's Highways over Rail policy.... SMART highways would fix Virgina's congestion issues....


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## Penn's Woods

nerdly_dood said:


> Morgantown already has I-68 and I-79, or so says Google Maps - what's that got to do with 64? I-66 is vastly closer anyway, and besides, it's too close to I-68, if you wanna get from Washington to Morgantown just use I-66 west, then I-81 north, then I-68 west and you're there.
> ...


Or 270 to 70 to 68.


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## Penn's Woods

mgk920 said:


> ^^
> The thing missing from your Duluth-SSM musing is traffic on the part of US 2 west of US 41. It is a lonely drive, indeed, on those looooong stretches of highly-engineered two-lanes. You can go for 10-20 minutes and not meet another vehicle that is going the other way.
> 
> East of US 41, yes, IMHO, it would be a good corridor for a potential I-route extension. The closer it gets to I-75, the busier it gets, especially during tourist season.
> 
> Mike


I don't think some people in Europe get how sparsely populated huge chunks of the U.S. are.... (No disrespect meant, Suburbanist, but the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, so Wikipedia tells me, has the land area of the Netherlands and the population of Utrecht.)


----------



## CNGL

Suburbanist said:


> I guess the Interstate designation is less important than the fact it has to be a 2x2 grade-separated route. Of course, including it on the Interstate list means federal money available..
> 
> Now if one asks me about major Interstate links (not only metropolitan ones) I think US still misses most, I'd go for the following alignments:
> 
> - upgrading US-101 to full Interstate standards all the way from San Jose to Los Angeles


And leave it as US-101. Some people want this to be I-3, but Californians don't.



Suburbanist said:


> - Las Vegas - Phoenix (along US-93 corridor)


How about number it I-13 and name it the Bad Luck Highway? This could go over the bridge located just South of Hoover dam...



Suburbanist said:


> - Amarillo - Wichita Falls - Fort Worth (the route is now a patch of expressways and non-upgraded US highways), with a side extension of I-27 south of Lubbock to I-20.


US-287 Amarillo-Bowie and US-81 Bowie-DFW. Perhaps, I would number it I-34. In addition I would extend I-27 to Limon, CO along US-287, creating a link between Denver and the DFW area.



Suburbanist said:


> - Kansas City - Springfield - Little Rock and a completion of the Shreverport - I30 link and a link of Pine Bluff with Greenville and Jackson (MS).


Shreveport to I-30 is planned as part of I-49 to Kansas City. I would merge the other two routes with I-530 and I would name it I-53.



Suburbanist said:


> - Montgomery - Tallahassee (as one can see, I think Deep South lacks many important connections).


A reroute of I-65?



Suburbanist said:


> - link I-64 (VA) with Morgantown (WV), opening a new Appalachian highway crossing


I would agree with Nerdly_Dood. I even have a better route to go from Washington DC to Morgantown: I-270, then I-70, then I-68. But I see that as another N-S corridor, just reroute I-79 there and name current I-79 to Charleston I-68.



Suburbanist said:


> - a Kingsport - Columbus (OH) connection. That area is poorly served by old US routes meandering on the hilly/mountainous terrain


Then I-26 should get renumbered to an odd number! But it is very difficult, because all odd numbers there are already in use...



Suburbanist said:


> - a 30-year needed Norfolk - WIlmington link all the way though Delaware


It would be I-99, but a guy named Bud Shuster put it on the middle of PA... so it should be I-101. And I would extend to Wilmington NC (Thus creating a Wilmington-Wilmington highway :lol or even to Savannah.



Suburbanist said:


> - an Upstate NEw York Loop connecting I-81 to I-87 along the Canadian border + decent highway cross over Lake Champlain (NY-VT connections are a shame a.t.m.)


I-98. I would continue it to I-95 in ME.



Suburbanist said:


> - Albany - Concord - Portland (ME) link, to offer a bypass for traffic routing south from the congest areas around Boston and New York metro. It would be a northern version of I-81: a route used heavily by long-distance freight trucks.


I-92. But I would end it at Portsmouth NH.



Suburbanist said:


> - a highway alongside the Mississippi from Minneapolis to St. Louis


Avenue of the Saints anywhere? Maybe, but it should be numbered as a number that doesn't already exists as an US road! Maybe I-47, but then I-39 and I-43 should be renumbered as they are East of this potential I-state...



Suburbanist said:


> - finally, a connection from Duluth to St. Saint Marie (Canada border), to be linked with a NE extension of I-43 from Green Bay (MI)


Western I-98. I would extend it further West along US-2, with some proposals going as far as Spokane!



Suburbanist said:


> I also have my dream unfeasible lists of highway projects, like some SE-NW highway all the way from Oregon to New Mexico via NV and UT.


Once I had an idea for an I-38 going all the way through the country, from the Bay area to the Outer Banks. But that should be numbered as I-x0, no I-38. But it justified the I-238 in the Bay area.


----------



## ScraperDude

^^^^ I agree with I-26 being renumbered. I grew up in Pikeville, Ky and US 23 is how we would get to Columbus to the north and Tri-cities to the south. 
We always wondered if 26 would make it to Pikeville and then connect to Mountain Parkway and connect to I-64 in Winchester. But why renumber anyway..... leave it I-26 all the way to Columbus. If I-238 can exist 26 can be a weirdo interstate too 

I was also told growing up that I-64 was originally to be routed from Beckley to Pikeville and then turn north to connect to the Mountain Parkway and onto its original route from Winchester to Lexington. Apparently West Virginia had a role in getting 64 routed onto the WV turnpike and then to connect Charleston to Huntington and then route it across KY's northern tier to Winchester. Not sure if there is truth in that.


----------



## Suburbanist

Penn's Woods said:


> I don't think some people in Europe get how sparsely populated huge chunks of the U.S. are.... (No disrespect meant, Suburbanist, but the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, so Wikipedia tells me, has the land area of the Netherlands and the population of Utrecht.)


I have lived in Wyoming, so I get the idea of sparsely populated areas. However, even there in Wyoming, I-80 was relatively busy, mainly with truck traffic. So I though that an Interstate in Upper Michigan could boost Ontario-Midwest traffic, for instance, and maybe help revert stagnation on the area.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Suburbanist said:


> I have lived in Wyoming, so I get the idea of sparsely populated areas. However, even there in Wyoming, I-80 was relatively busy, mainly with truck traffic. So I though that an Interstate in Upper Michigan could boost Ontario-Midwest traffic, for instance, and maybe help revert stagnation on the area.


Ah. Wyoming is sparsely populated, it's true!
But still, you're talking about connecting northen Minnesota and upper Michigan to northern Ontario and northwestern Quebec. None of which areas are all that populated. Most of the Midwest has connections to the most populated part of Ontario, through southern Michigan. Now, if Canada did something from Sault Sainte Marie to Montreal in conjunction with your Upper Peninsula, your Upper Peninsula Interstate might make more sense.
Now, what would people be transporting by truck? The thing I associate with northern Minnesota is iron ore, which - since the 19th century - they've been putting onto ships at Duluth.


----------



## ScraperDude

Suburbanist said:


> I have lived in Wyoming, so I get the idea of sparsely populated areas. However, even there in Wyoming, I-80 was relatively busy, mainly with truck traffic. So I though that an Interstate in Upper Michigan could boost Ontario-Midwest traffic, for instance, and maybe help revert stagnation on the area.


I agree that Interstates can spur some development and employment. I think Hays, Kansas could be an example of that. It's in the middle of nowhere but has numerous hotels and food services. Without I-70 I doubt any of that would have ever developed. A part of me would hate to see the UP change to a landscape with billboards and a scar on the land but it could be a great way to funnel some of the I-75 traffic that usually goes through lower Michigan and onto 90/80 into Wisconsin instead and points west/south. 

Me and the Bf vacation with friends in Northern Michigan and since there's no direct way there from Kansas City we are choosing to fly to Detroit and drive up 75. If there was a faster route through the UP we'd drive instead.


----------



## ttownfeen

hoosier said:


> Memphis and Birmingham were already connected by U.S. 78. Was an interstate connection really necessary?
> 
> What about building the northern leg of the Birmingham beltway? There is no traffic in that part of the county to warrant this road. What about extending I-85 through Selma to Meridian when U.S. 80 more than suffices? BOONDOGGLE.


I don't think somebody from the Midwest should be lecturing us about unnecessary interstates. I look at Illinois alone, and the number of interstates there that don't seem to connect anything is mind-boggling.

I-72? I-88? I-39? I-57?


----------



## Suburbanist

I-39 is hardly "unnecessary". It allows traffic in many directions to avoid the Chicago area. 

I-57 is a major long-distance freight route.


----------



## ttownfeen

The Montgomery-Tallahassee connection is served already by US 431/US 231 until I-10. It's pretty fast free-flowing highway, except for the cities the highways go through. I would recommend a piecemeal upgrade, starting first with freeway bypasses around Troy and Ozark. I would then start upgrading 231 between I-10 and Dothan to a freeway and 431 from Dothan towards Montgomery. Then finish off with a connection between the freeways north and south of Dothan.


----------



## Xusein

At the rate it's going, I don't think I-69 will be completed 20 years from now.

The main reason why this is being constructed is to connect Texas and Mexico with Michigan and Ontario directly, both being major trade chokepoints.

i.e: the *NAFTA *superhighway.


----------



## weava

The first four level interchange in the ozarks (Springfield, MO) at US 60/65 interchange.








The longer flyover is 2,019 feet long and is now the longest bridge in southwest missouri.


----------



## CNGL

^^ Wrong thread. There's one for non-interstates: [USA] United States Non-Interstate Roads and Highways.


----------



## weava

CNGL said:


> ^^ Wrong thread. There's one for non-interstates: [USA] United States Non-Interstate Roads and Highways.


Its part of the future I-66


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## ScraperDude

weava said:


> Its part of the future I-66


Hopefully I-66 will get built, all of it!
The section that will run through my hometown had their last meeting in 2007. People there thinks that it's a dead project, meanwhile further west in South Central Kentucky there are still future I-66 shields up. I don't know whats going on with this project anymore.

http://www.interstate66.com/


----------



## Penn's Woods

ScraperDude said:


> Hopefully I-66 will get built, all of it!
> The section that will run through my hometown had their last meeting in 2007. People there thinks that it's a dead project, meanwhile further west in South Central Kentucky there are still future I-66 shields up. I don't know whats going on with this project anymore.
> 
> http://www.interstate66.com/



I had no idea it was supposed to get farther west than it does now (not that that's very far west). But frankly, I put most supposed "future interstates" strictly in the category of things-I'll-believe-when-I-see-them.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Texas is considering an 85 mph (138 km/h) limit:

http://autos.aol.com/article/texas-...e/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl7|sec1_lnk2|55616


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## ScraperDude

Penn's Woods said:


> I had no idea it was supposed to get farther west than it does now (not that that's very far west). But frankly, I put most supposed "future interstates" strictly in the category of things-I'll-believe-when-I-see-them.


Well after I-99 I think anything is possible.
Heres a link to the Future I-66 signs in Southern Kentucky
http://www.kentuckyroads.com/images/signs/100_0993.jpg.html

From my understanding it was supposed to reach Wichita eventually but I think Kansas could care less about it. 

Mix this with the "Future" I-74/I-73 corridors through WV who knows how all of these are going to get built. Currently WV has already been building the Coalfields expressway which you can google earth/map Beckley, WV and follow Highway 121 SW and you can see the ROW and the existing expressway and interchanges. THEN hop over to Welch, WV and move North on the map and find the weird stretch of highway built near the prison that connects to nothing. This is where an interchange was supposed to be built for access to the prison/new intustrial park which obviously hasn't happened yet.


----------



## Xusein

Tolls might come back to CT. 



> *Return of Connecticut tolls one step closer; diesel tax hike sought
> *By Keith Goble, Land Line state legislative editor
> 
> A Connecticut legislative panel has given the go-ahead to a bill that allows tolls on new highways or highway extensions. Other toll bills that met their demise sought to charge tolls on all drivers at the state’s borders and a separate effort that singled out truckers.
> 
> Another effort still active would have truckers chip in more to help pay for roads.
> 
> State officials removed tolls from the Connecticut Turnpike in the mid 80s. Concerns about safety and congestion spurred the state to remove toll booths that were scattered across roadways.
> 
> Facing a budget deficit of nearly $7 billion, the Legislature’s Transportation Committee voted 23-12 to advance a bill that would open the door to the revenue source. Temporary tolls would be authorized to pay for such projects as the completion of state Route 11 in southeastern Connecticut. Existing roadways would continue to be toll free.
> 
> If approved by lawmakers, the bill – HB6200 – would move to Gov. Dannel Malloy’s desk. The governor has said he wants the last eight miles of the road connecting Hartford with the southeastern part of the state to get done, and tolls are an option.
> 
> Tolls would be removed when enough toll revenue is generated to cover construction bonds and “an amount estimated to be required for maintenance and repair” is collected.
> 
> Rep. David Scribner of Brookfield, the ranking Republican on the panel, is opposed to applying tolls for any one project. He said it would create a slippery slope for reinstituting tolls throughout the state.
> 
> Scribner also addressed the public’s misperception that truckers damage Connecticut highways and often don’t even stop for fuel to compensate the state.
> 
> “There is a perception that tractor-trailer trucks that drive through Connecticut don’t share any revenue with the state. That is not accurate,” Scribner said in remarks on his web site. “They are required under federal law to maintain a log that monitors their hours and distances traveled in the state. From that information we get revenue. It goes into the Special Transportation Fund.”
> 
> He noted that Connecticut gets about $16 million annually from out-of-state truckers through IFTA.
> 
> Another option being sought relies on truckers to pay 42.6 cents per gallon in state fuel taxes. The Connecticut Motor Transport Association is lobbying to have a penny added to Gov. Malloy’s proposal to increase the diesel tax by 2 cents per gallon.
> 
> The state already applies a 39.6-cent-per-gallon tax on diesel. The state’s gas tax is 41.6 cents.
> 
> In return, the truckers group wants a break elsewhere. Connecticut lawmakers are looking at ending a property tax exemption that saves the state’s trucking companies millions of dollars each year.
> 
> CMTA President Mike Riley is hopeful lawmakers will keep the exemption intact in exchange for an extra penny in diesel taxes.
> 
> “The fuel tax can be passed through in fuel adjustments. That is an understandable cost of doing business that truckers can explain to their customers,” Riley told Land Line Now. “There is no such thing as a good tax, but some taxes aren’t as bad as others.”
> 
> To view other legislative activities of interest for Connecticut, click here.
> 
> Editor’s Note: Please share your thoughts with us about the topic included in this story. Comments may be sent to [email protected].
> 
> Land Line Now Staff Reporter Reed Black contributed to this report.
> 
> Copyright © OOIDA


http://www.landlinemag.com/todays_news/Daily/2011/Apr11/041111/041111-03.shtml


----------



## sonysnob

Kind of off-topic, but does anybody know if the leaves will be on the trees by next weekend or so in Pittsburgh? I am planning a roadtrip and am curious. Thanks.


----------



## Penn's Woods

sonysnob said:


> Kind of off-topic, but does anybody know if the leaves will be on the trees by next weekend or so in Pittsburgh? I am planning a roadtrip and am curious. Thanks.


Can't speak to leaves particularly, but my sinuses and I can tell you that spring (flowering trees, notably) is well under way in Philadelphia. We may be slightly warmer than Pittsburgh as a general rule, but I believe they've been having warmer weather than us lately. Enjoy the trip.


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## FM 2258

Penn's Woods said:


> Texas is considering an 85 mph (138 km/h) limit:
> 
> http://autos.aol.com/article/texas-...e/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl7|sec1_lnk2|55616


That should be the default for all rural Interstates. :cheers:


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## Penn's Woods

^^I don't know about that: you could define I-95 in northeastern Maryland as a rural Interstate, but traffic can be pretty heavy....


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## ScraperDude

FM 2258 said:


> That should be the default for all rural Interstates. :cheers:


^^^^ AGREE! I drive that fast on rurals anyway.


----------



## EricIsHim

Xusein said:


> Tolls might come back to CT.
> http://www.landlinemag.com/todays_news/Daily/2011/Apr11/041111/041111-03.shtml


But the thing is, there are just not that many new expressways going to be built in CT in the future. This proposal will just be a phantom. Most places in the state have already been penetrated by expressways with only a few spot left in the State, where the expressways were planned but have never been built. Anything that is new will be either upgrade / widen existing state roadways, or just short extension of existing expressways.

Doubt this short new segments are going to have toll on them.


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## EricIsHim

Penn's Woods said:


> Texas is considering an 85 mph (138 km/h) limit:
> 
> http://autos.aol.com/article/texas-...e/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl7|sec1_lnk2|55616


Which means people are going to drive 95-100 mph versus 90-95 now, and get the speeding ticket when the speedometer hits 110 instead 100. May as well just make it the AutoBahn of the US.


----------



## Nexis

EricIsHim said:


> But the thing is, there are just not that many new expressways going to be built in CT in the future. This proposal will just be a phantom. Most places in the state have already been penetrated by expressways with only a few spot left in the State, where the expressways were planned but have never been built. Anything that is new will be either upgrade / widen existing state roadways, or just short extension of existing expressways.
> 
> Doubt this short new segments are going to have toll on them.


The Tolls will be used for taking care of the Highway system , Replacing Bridges , and expanding the Transit system. Since the Feds are being neglectful once again , many states are turning to Tolls.....which isn't a bad thing since things tend to move faaster.


----------



## Xusein

EricIsHim said:


> But the thing is, there are just not that many new expressways going to be built in CT in the future. This proposal will just be a phantom. Most places in the state have already been penetrated by expressways with only a few spot left in the State, where the expressways were planned but have never been built. Anything that is new will be either upgrade / widen existing state roadways, or just short extension of existing expressways.
> 
> Doubt this short new segments are going to have toll on them.


True. Not much highways will be added in the future. Other than the Route 11 missing link and the Route 72 extension into Bristol, I don't know of any other real projects since most of the state is adequately covered by expressways.

However I think this is just a front since we all know that Route 11 will never be crowded enough to justify tolls in the first place. It's in the middle of nowhere. Their real plan is eventually put tolls on the state borders so they can capture money from the cars from neighboring states that toll us through the nose but drive free on our highways. I have heard this being discussed before and doing this will make it easier for this eventual plan to happen.


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## FM 2258

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^I don't know about that: you could define I-95 in northeastern Maryland as a rural Interstate, but traffic can be pretty heavy....


I still say make it 85. Traffic will do its own thing and slow everyone down just like it does in a 65 zone. One thing I've noticed on freeways at least here in Texas is that there are still a lot of people that like to cruise way below the speed limit. I look over and wonder if they're on drugs, not paying attention or what. Speed Limit in the city is 65 and they're lounging in the slow lane doing 50. 

When I was much younger my perception was that everyone was itching to drive fast, frustratingly it seems that slow drivers really screw up the flow of a freeway. hno:


----------



## EricIsHim

Nexis said:


> The Tolls will be used for taking care of the Highway system , Replacing Bridges , and expanding the Transit system. Since the Feds are being neglectful once again , many states are turning to Tolls.....which isn't a bad thing since things tend to move faaster.


In reality, it should be, but not in Connecticut. The toll proposed are supposed to only provide maintenance and other operational support for the infrastructure itself. These money in talk now are not supposed to go out to fund other infrastructures around the State.



Xusein said:


> True. Not much highways will be added in the future. Other than the Route 11 missing link and the Route 72 extension into Bristol, I don't know of any other real projects since most of the state is adequately covered by expressways.
> 
> However I think this is just a front since we all know that Route 11 will never be crowded enough to justify tolls in the first place. It's in the middle of nowhere. Their real plan is eventually put tolls on the state borders so they can capture money from the cars from neighboring states that toll us through the nose but drive free on our highways. I have heard this being discussed before and doing this will make it easier for this eventual plan to happen.


There is also the missing piece of "Super 7" between north Norwalk and south Danbury. Amongst all, this piece is probably the most critical.

Anyways, the "real thing" have been in fire for a while, and turned off for a few times. The most recent one was last year, rejected just before this new proposal came out. 
The whole loop conclusions have been
1. Toll booth is going to be dangerous, and people/the DOT is afraid the 1983 tragedy will happen again. So toll booths are not going to be built at the boarder again.
2. EZ-Pass or similar electronic tag is going to track where people go, and will be in violation of privacy, so the politicians are objecting to the touch-free high speed technology.

At the end, I just don't see toll highways will come back in CT in a fashion as they do in other states. Gas tax will still be the big part of the income source to fund transportation infrastructures in the State.


----------



## urbanlover

JeremyCastle said:


> I disagree... it may vary somewhat state by state, but my gut tells me at least 50 + 1 (which is a majority) of American drivers don't know about the keep right except to pass concept.


We know about it, we just don't care. A lot of drivers here have the attitude that if I'm doing the speed limit I can be in any damn lane I want and if you don't like it **** you go around me. I only wish we had more cops like in that vid.


In other news Kansas is upping it's speed limit to 75

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/04/20/2814361/top-kansas-speed-limit-will-increase.html


----------



## nerdly_dood

urbanlover said:


> We know about it, we just don't care. A lot of drivers here have the attitude that if I'm doing the speed limit I can be in any damn lane I want and if you don't like it **** you go around me.


Yup, that about sums it up. If I'm gonna turn left I'm gonna get in that lane, even if the turn is twenty miles away.


----------



## Nexis

urbanlover said:


> We know about it, we just don't care. A lot of drivers here have the attitude that if I'm doing the speed limit I can be in any damn lane I want and if you don't like it **** you go around me.
> 
> 
> In other news Kansas is upping it's speed limit to 75
> 
> http://www.kansascity.com/2011/04/20/2814361/top-kansas-speed-limit-will-increase.html


No , you stay out of the left lane , you people who go slow in the left should have points added to your licenses....


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## Penn's Woods

^^+ 1

I'm with Nexis on this one. Mostly. Actually, on freeways/expressways where there are more than two lanes, I'll use one of the middle ones unless I feel like going fast, to avoid conflicts with traffic entering at interchanges. (If there are only two lanes, and the road's fairly busy, I'll use the one appropriate for my speed; if there are two lanes on an empty road, I'll keep right.) But I don't like passing on the right and will only do it if you force me to by driving slowly in the left lane and being unresponsive to a couple of flashes. (Although I'd be stunned to be ticketed for passing on the right, just as I'd be stunned to see someone ticketed for being in the left lane when they shouldn't.)

Nerdly Dood, I hate headlights in my rearview mirror too, and if someone's actually shining them in my mirror - either because they're idiotically driving with their high beams on or they're in a hulking big vehicle so their low beams are right in my mirror, I'll turn my blinkers on to get them to back off. It usually works.


----------



## nerdly_dood

If cops give tickets for driving too slowly in the left lane, they'd effectively be requiring that you drive above the speed limit. The speed limit is supposed to be the maximum speed allowed, so ticketing people who drive under the speed limit would be dumb.


----------



## Penn's Woods

nerdly_dood said:


> If cops give tickets for driving too slowly in the left lane, they'd effectively be requiring that you drive above the speed limit. The speed limit is supposed to be the maximum speed allowed, so ticketing people who drive under the speed limit would be dumb.


Except in states where you're supposed (by law) to keep right except to pass.... If you're driving down the left lane of an empty road, you're ticketable as far as I'm concerned.

EDIT: It's like Washington-area Metro escalators, actually. Only tourists stand on the left.


----------



## Botev1912

In Europe or at least in Bulgaria there is a minimum speed 50 km/h (30 mph) on highways unless there is traffic of course. If you drive below this, you are illegal and shouldn't be on that highway


----------



## mgk920

nerdly_dood said:


> If cops give tickets for driving too slowly in the left lane, they'd effectively be requiring that you drive above the speed limit. The speed limit is supposed to be the maximum speed allowed, so ticketing people who drive under the speed limit would be dumb.


From what I am aware of, the 'slower traffic keep right' law supersedes the speed limit in many states. IMHO, it is a highway safety rule that works (just ask the Germans!).

Mike


----------



## tall_dreams

please post pics, pics in this subforum are a rarity. I would like to see interstates outside city limits.


----------



## brewerfan386

tall_dreams said:


> please post pics, pics in this subforum *(outside of the coastal states) *are a rarity.


 fixed it 


> I would like to see interstates outside city limits.


 Agreed 100%

:cheers:


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

mgk920 said:


> From what I am aware of, the 'slower traffic keep right' law supersedes the speed limit in many states. IMHO, it is a highway safety rule that works (just ask the Germans!).
> 
> Mike


Exactly, the idiots who stay in the left lane impede the flow of traffic which lead to aggressive driving from people trying to get around them. People who stay in the left lane are pompous assholes who are the same people who don't use their signals because they feel they are too good(lazy) for that. I remember driving through Indiana so many people including truckers were staying in the left lane going at or below the speed limit. I had been driving for many hours and needless to say I pissed off a lot of drivers in that state because you bet I squeezed, cut off, and pushed my way through those idiots. Not saying my reaction was right but that is what it leads to. Majority of Americans don't know how to drive well, of course it varies by state but you will find the same stupid driving habits everywhere here. Then again it might be because in American you can get a drivers license without ever having to leave a parking lot.


----------



## siamu maharaj

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Exactly, the idiots who stay in the left lane impede the flow of traffic which lead to aggressive driving from people trying to get around them. People who stay in the left lane are pompous assholes who are the same people who don't use their signals because they feel they are too good(lazy) for that. I remember driving through Indiana so many people including truckers were staying in the left lane going at or below the speed limit. I had been driving for many hours and needless to say I pissed off a lot of drivers in that state because you bet I squeezed, cut off, and pushed my way through those idiots. Not saying my reaction was right but that is what it leads to. Majority of Americans don't know how to drive well, of course it varies by state but you will find the same stupid driving habits everywhere here. Then again it might be because in American you can get a drivers license without ever having to leave a parking lot.


I'll be driving thru Indiana tomorrow. Wish me luck! But my ordeal will be followed by driving in Chicago, which I absolutely love.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kansas will increase rural 4-lane speed limits from 70 to 75 mph.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/04/20/2815536/in-brief-new-75-mph-speed-limit.html


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Kansas will increase rural 4-lane speed limits from 70 to 75 mph.
> 
> http://www.kansascity.com/2011/04/20/2815536/in-brief-new-75-mph-speed-limit.html


When? I'm going there in a little over two weeks. I suspect it will take them a while to actually change signs.


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## Penn's Woods

siamu maharaj said:


> I'll be driving thru Indiana tomorrow. Wish me luck! But my ordeal will be followed by driving in Chicago, which I absolutely love.


I _won't_ be in Indiana (or Chicago) tomorrow, so I won't have to worry about being tailgated two inches behind.


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## I-275westcoastfl

siamu maharaj said:


> I'll be driving thru Indiana tomorrow. Wish me luck! But my ordeal will be followed by driving in Chicago, which I absolutely love.


Yeah Chicago is one of the worst cities as far as drivers go but at least they are all trying to get to their destinations quickly(aggressive driving).


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## Nexis

I don't understand why were raising speed limits when Gas prices are going up? It seems idiotic to me....


----------



## urbanlover

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Exactly, the idiots who stay in the left lane impede the flow of traffic which lead to aggressive driving from people trying to get around them. People who stay in the left lane are pompous assholes who are the same people who don't use their signals because they feel they are too good(lazy) for that. I remember driving through Indiana so many people including truckers were staying in the left lane going at or below the speed limit. I had been driving for many hours and needless to say I pissed off a lot of drivers in that state because you bet I squeezed, cut off, and pushed my way through those idiots. Not saying my reaction was right but that is what it leads to. Majority of Americans don't know how to drive well, of course it varies by state but you will find the same stupid driving habits everywhere here. *Then again it might be because in American you can get a drivers license without ever having to leave a parking lot*.


This. I didn't know until a few years ago that many states don't even require a real road test, the drivers training reqiurements in many places are a joke.


----------



## nerdly_dood

Nexis said:


> I don't understand why were raising speed limits when Gas prices are going up? It seems idiotic to me....


Driving faster is safer simply because 55 mph is boring on a road designed for traffic at 70-75mph. Boring, on a straight road with long sight lines... at night, had a long day... people will tend to fall asleep, shortly before eating their windshield.

It's common knowledge that it's unhealthy to eat windshields, even more so than McDonald's.

Plus cars are more fuel efficient.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Nexis said:


> I don't understand why were raising speed limits when Gas prices are going up? It seems idiotic to me....


I seem to remember up there in NY and Jersey that 55mph=80mph for most people, it makes sense because even when 55mph were set in the 70's many people didn't follow them. Setting reasonable speed limits is sound logic.



urbanlover said:


> This. I didn't know until a few years ago that many states don't even require a real road test, the drivers training reqiurements in many places are a joke.


Yeah I mean at least make it mandatory to go out on the road and a highway to learn proper driving.


----------



## Botev1912

Penn's Woods said:


> Isn't adding tolls to a currently-free Interstate (I'm referring to your mention of I-90 farther up the thread) built with federal funds illegal? The Rendell administration tried at least twice to get permission from the feds (no idea what agency) to add tolls to Pennsylvania's stretch of I-80, and was shot down.


do you mean that all interstates are FREE?


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## Penn's Woods

Botev1912 said:


> do you mean that all interstates are FREE?


Those that weren't built as toll roads (most if not all of them before getting the Interstate designation) are.


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## ChrisZwolle

There is no such things as free roads unless your government levies no taxes whatsoever.


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## Botev1912

that's true, but you don't have to pay every time you get on them


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> There is no such things as free roads unless your government levies no taxes whatsoever.


[sigh]
You know perfectly well what Botev meant.


----------



## Tom 958

ChrisZwolle said:


> There is no such things as free roads unless your government levies no taxes whatsoever.


That happens to be the platform of the Republican Party. :nuts:


----------



## AUchamps

Tom 958 said:


> That happens to be the platform of the Republican Party. :nuts:


No taxes? Sounds more like a Libertarian thing.


----------



## Botev1912

if there were no taxes, who would fund the roads?


----------



## Nexis

Botev1912 said:


> if there were no taxes, who would fund the roads?


They won't be funded and fall into Disrepair....hno:


----------



## nils16

VIDEOS

*From Oceanside to San Diego / 04.2011/ 1080p HD*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbKcu3DUu2Y

*Inbound Los Angeles from South to Hollywood blvd /05.2011/ 720p HD*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ous84OTN0fk

*Driving from San Diego up North/ 04.2011/ 1080p HD*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa2p_eNMQCU

Please rate the videos.
And comments are welcome


----------



## Botev1912

Nexis said:


> They won't be funded and fall into Disrepair....hno:


so the newest 3rd world country. No thanks. I prefer to pay and drive on nice roads


----------



## bmanx06

HAWC1506 said:


> That section recently underwent concrete rehabilitation. WSDOT installed dowel bars between concrete panels, replaced the most heavily cracked panels, and then diamond-ground off the top 1/4 inch of the entire stretch of roadway to improve the road surface. It feels nice driving on it, but it's far from pleasing to the eye.
> 
> But of course, that's just a temporary fix. Actual reconstruction of the highway won't happen until 2017.


Do you know if the 2017 reconstruction will also affect the corridor from southern King County through Olympia? I noticed an asphalt stretch in Pierce County (Fife/Milton) was recently repaved (funded with stimulus dollars). The rest of the concrete is also over 50 years old and is dire condition as well.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Botev1912 said:


> so the newest 3rd world country. No thanks. I prefer to pay and drive on nice roads


Hear, hear! I generally try to avoid politics here and am glad others generally do likewise - there are plenty of other places on the Internet for that - but our national allergy to taxes and government spending (within reason, of course) does not serve us well.


----------



## bmanx06

Botev1912 said:


> Will they ever repave the worst sections of I-5 between downtown Seattle and the border with Snohomish County (Shoreline exit 177)? That section is so bad. The concrete is probably *50 years old* and not smooth at all. Also the markings (the dots on the road) on Hwy 99 in Snohomish County between 188 St SW and 244 St SW are almost non-existant. That has been like that for more than 2 years. I can't understand why they regularly repaint and repave small streets and they don't even touch the main roads/highways?


Well, the state is $5bn short in cash, all because voters repealed the "candy" tax and rejected increased taxes on the richest 1%. Millions of dollars by DC corporate lobbyists were spent to convince residents that paying 2 cents extra on a bottle of Coke was preposterous. 

The roads and streets are so terrible in areas that they pose a safety hazard. Many are blowing out the shocks and struts on cars.


----------



## LtBk

Not surprising really. Americans are cheap IMO.


----------



## Botev1912

Does anyone know what happened to the pavement on I-5 southbound between exit 182 and 181 in Lynnwood. The pavement was perfect until they started the new tunnel project which has nothing to do with the pavement because it is outside of the freeway. So they removed the top layer of asphalt and now the road looks really bad and there is a sign Grooved pavement and believe me it's really dangerous especially if you drive a smaller car. It's been like that for more than 8 months. Does anyone know why they did that and will they fix it? They are only building a tunnel (braided ramp)


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

LtBk said:


> Not surprising really. Americans are cheap IMO.


No just ignorant and stupid, we have the money to fix our roads however the funds are being used elsewhere. It's the same bullshit that social security is broke, the program has a surplus but they borrowed money from it for other things. America is the country where the rich lie and take your money and then the lower class fight for lower taxes for the rich but yeah a lot of politics. Point is we should have the right amount of money diverted to infrastructure.


----------



## Botev1912

I have driven on a lot of interstates, smaller highways and streets in USA and the roads are in good condition (not perfect like Spain for example). There are roads in perfect condition, there are roads in bad condition (like everywhere), but most of the US roads are fine


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Botev1912 said:


> I have driven on a lot of interstates, smaller highways and streets in USA and the roads are in good condition (not perfect like Spain for example). There are roads in perfect condition, there are roads in bad condition (like everywhere), but most of the US roads are fine


Depends on where in the US you are but yeah some places you would never think the roads are bad.


----------



## HAWC1506

bmanx06 said:


> Do you know if the 2017 reconstruction will also affect the corridor from southern King County through Olympia? I noticed an asphalt stretch in Pierce County (Fife/Milton) was recently repaved (funded with stimulus dollars). The rest of the concrete is also over 50 years old and is dire condition as well.


I think it's just the section between Tukwila and Northgate. Reconstructing that section alone would be a massive financial burden if you think about how many thousands of concrete panels they will have to replace.



Botev1912 said:


> Does anyone know what happened to the pavement on I-5 southbound between exit 182 and 181 in Lynnwood. The pavement was perfect until they started the new tunnel project which has nothing to do with the pavement because it is outside of the freeway. So they removed the top layer of asphalt and now the road looks really bad and there is a sign Grooved pavement and believe me it's really dangerous especially if you drive a smaller car. It's been like that for more than 8 months. Does anyone know why they did that and will they fix it? They are only building a tunnel (braided ramp)


Hmm, I'm not sure about that one. They're also doing drainage work and shifting lanes around, but I don't get why that would require removing the top layer. I'll go check it out sometime.


----------



## VoltAmps

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Depends on where in the US you are but yeah some places you would never think the roads are bad.


USA really does have the best roads/highways in the world. I'm up in Canada (Vancouver) and I marvel at the highways the states have whenever I come down.


----------



## urbanlover

Botev1912 said:


> I have driven on a lot of interstates, smaller highways and streets in USA and the roads are in good condition (not perfect like Spain for example). There are roads in perfect condition, there are roads in bad condition (like everywhere), but most of the US roads are fine


Yeah, overall the roads here are pretty good, but given how wealthly our country is they should be perfect


----------



## Botev1912

VoltAmps said:


> USA really does have the best roads/highways in the world. I'm up in Canada (Vancouver) and I marvel at the highways the states have whenever I come down.


Compared to Vancouver yes. When I go there it takes me 1:30 hours from Seattle to the border (around 100 miles or 160 km) and then another 1 hour from the border to Vancouver (for only 30 miles or 48 km) because there is only that 99 highway which has a lot of traffic lights. It's annoying. Why haven't they built a freeway between the border and Vancouver?
But compared to Spain and France, the road surface in US isn't that great. Some western European countries have better highways. I still like the US system better though


----------



## HAWC1506

Botev1912 said:


> Compared to Vancouver yes. When I go there it takes me 1:30 hours from Seattle to the border (around 100 miles or 160 km) and then another 1 hour from the border to Vancouver (for only 30 miles or 48 km) because there is only that 99 highway which has a lot of traffic lights. It's annoying. Why haven't they built a freeway between the border and Vancouver?
> But compared to Spain and France, the road surface in US isn't that great. Some western European countries have better highways. I still like the US system better though


Vancouver decided to not route a highway through the city to focus more on transit. In terms of a planning and smart growth perspective, it's worked. Vancouver is significantly denser and more homogenous than Seattle with great transit ridership.

My perspective is that highways shouldn't take you into the city, but to the city. Once you get to the city, you take a B-road or a major arterial to get into it. Routing it through a city is never good for the Central Core as it creates major gridlock (like Seattle).


----------



## Botev1912

I have noticed that they don't repave the bridge decks on the freeways. Even if they repave the freeway with brand new asphalt, they leave the old concrete on the bridge decks? Why don't they change it too?


----------



## Botev1912

HAWC1506 said:


> My perspective is that highways shouldn't take you into the city, but to the city. Once you get to the city, you take a B-road or a major arterial to get into it. Routing it through a city is never good for the Central Core as it creates major gridlock (like Seattle).


This is one thing that really impressed me when I moved to the USA. It's really convenient when a highway takes you into the city. If you live close by the freeway, you get to any place you want fast. Unfortunately the traffic is getting worse and worse


----------



## Botev1912

JuanPaulo said:


> Here are two pics of the H1 in "town". Note that HI DOT uses those durable white tack looking things instead of painting passing lines on the pavement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _photo by unknown author_


don't they come off? There are a lot of roads with missing botts dots here. I still don't know why they keep using these on city roads (Lynnwood, Bellevue, Renton) instead of paint or profiled marking. The reflective markings are good and very helpful but the others are not necessary. They don't survive and they don't replace them either


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ There is no snow in Hawaii, hence no snowplows that destroy them.


----------



## Botev1912

It rarely snows in Seattle area. The snow isn't the only problem. The heavy trucks are a bigger problem. They break them


----------



## VoltAmps

Botev1912 said:


> Compared to Vancouver yes. When I go there it takes me 1:30 hours from Seattle to the border (around 100 miles or 160 km) and then another 1 hour from the border to Vancouver (for only 30 miles or 48 km) because there is only that 99 highway which has a lot of traffic lights. It's annoying. Why haven't they built a freeway between the border and Vancouver?
> But compared to Spain and France, the road surface in US isn't that great. Some western European countries have better highways. I still like the US system better though


Thats a good way of putting it. I love the interstate system. But I agree they could stand to improve the road surfaces in some areas.

Get a luxury SUV and you won't even feel it :lol:


----------



## VoltAmps

HAWC1506 said:


> Vancouver decided to not route a highway through the city to focus more on transit. In terms of a planning and smart growth perspective, it's worked. Vancouver is significantly denser and more homogenous than Seattle with great transit ridership.
> 
> My perspective is that highways shouldn't take you into the city, but to the city. Once you get to the city, you take a B-road or a major arterial to get into it. Routing it through a city is never good for the Central Core as it creates major gridlock (like Seattle).


Vancouver should at least have a by-pass highway from the border though. What about all the traffic going up the west coast past Vancouver?

We either have HWY 99 that is a freeway that ends abruptly at the edge of Vancouver. Or we have the "Pacific Highway" that connects the alternate border crossing in Surrey with HWY 1 and cuts through Langley. But its nothing more than a 4 lane road with many MANY traffic lights. Both routes are inadequate


----------



## Botev1912

HAWC1506 said:


> I-405 road work. The concrete is really old and rough so it has been diamond-grounded as a temporary fix before repaving next year.


Is that northbound or southbound? Because I-405 northbound before and a little after Bellevue hasn't been fixed. It's still that old rough concrete 3 years later


----------



## Penn's Woods

Botev1912 said:


> But compared to Spain and France, the road surface in US isn't that great. Some western European countries have better highways. I still like the US system better though


In our defense, a higher proportion of Spain's and France's freeways are newer than most of ours: I recently came across some road maps from my first trip to France in 1985 and was surprised by how many of the autoroutes I'm familiar with are not on the map, not even under construction. In the U.S., I'd guess roughly 90 percent of today's Interstate system was open by then.

Which doesn't excuse lack of maintenance, of course....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

True. France had a surprisingly small Autoroute network until the 1980's, only the most important routes were completed at that time. Around 1967-1969 France and the Netherlands had the same network length (France is 16 times larger). It should be noted that the French government owned Autoroutes are generally of much lower quality than the toll routes, especially in the North and East. 

However, I do agree that age does not justify bad road quality. We have freeways in the Netherlands that are over 50 years old and still have impeccable quality.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> [snip]It should be noted that the French government owned Autoroutes are generally of much lower quality than the toll routes, especially in the North and East.[snip]


I was looking the other day at...is it Piotr71?'s...pictures of the A25/N225. Can't remember if it was here or on his Picasa page. I was stunned, particularly at the N225. In fact, would it be fair to say that U.S. government-owned, toll-free Interstates (which is most of them) are generally better in quality than French government-owned, toll-free autoroutes and voies express? :-D


----------



## DanielFigFoz

Beskedy's I think, and I was also surprised


----------



## geogregor

Interstate 40 closed for traffic in Arkansas, around mile 202, due to flooding.


----------



## desertpunk

*The 110 in LA*


Skyline L.A. by Claus from Germany, on Flickr


----------



## HAWC1506

Botev1912 said:


> I have noticed that they don't repave the bridge decks on the freeways. Even if they repave the freeway with brand new asphalt, they leave the old concrete on the bridge decks? Why don't they change it too?


I have no idea, I've been wondering that myself. I think it has to do with the difficulty of dealing with expansion joints, approach slabs, and the effort required to make the pavement on the bridge deck completely level with its surroundings. I'll ask around and try to get an answer though.




Botev1912 said:


> don't they come off? There are a lot of roads with missing botts dots here. I still don't know why they keep using these on city roads (Lynnwood, Bellevue, Renton) instead of paint or profiled marking. The reflective markings are good and very helpful but the others are not necessary. They don't survive and they don't replace them either


They come off all the time. WSDOT started using plastic profiled pavement markings instead of raised pavement markings. Apparently they last almost four times as long. I guess City jurisdictions haven't really caught on yet, but they don't deal with the traffic intensity or wear and tear that highways get, so it might be a cost issue. Profiled markings cost twice as much as the raised pavement markings.




VoltAmps said:


> Vancouver should at least have a by-pass highway from the border though. What about all the traffic going up the west coast past Vancouver?


That's true, driving through Vancouver is a pain. A bypass sure would be nice. The Downtown area is a huge hassle to get through, and there are barely any designated turning lanes for traffic turning left so it clogs everything up.




Botev1912 said:


> Is that northbound or southbound? Because I-405 northbound before and a little after Bellevue hasn't been fixed. It's still that old rough concrete 3 years later


That would be northbound. The rehabilitated section on I-405 was actually a quieter-pavement test section, where WSDOT evaluated methods to reduce noise associated with pavement. I don't think the section closer to Bellevue will be repaved in the near future. For the most part, the Open-Graded asphalt sections have failed (miserably...) because of studded tire use. The test sections on SR 520 are rutted and are starting to develop potholes. They also sound just as loud as regular HMA at this point.

The asphalt section on I-405 was different in that WSDOT wanted to evaluate whether or not installing the pavement at a higher temperature would affect its performance over time, so they waited until the weather was above 65 degrees before installing the pavement. The concrete section was diamond grinding.


----------



## HAWC1506

On another note, the SR 520 bridge replacement project will introduce managed shoulder running for the first time in conjunction with Active Traffic Management (although there won't be a dedicated lane control sign above the shoulder).

I believe this sign will also be used, in LED form. What makes it even more interesting is that this sign isn't in the MUTCD yet.










It makes me wonder whether one day we will switch completely to International Vienna Convention style road signs.


----------



## Tom 958

^^ Oh, wow, the Yadkin River Bridge on I-85! It's finally being replaced: http://www.ncdot.org/projects/i85corridor/ . For years NCDOT couldn't find the money.

This section of I-85 has long fascinated me. The segment that includes the bridge is really old-- and the section north of there, also being reconstructed, is apparently even older, maybe pre-Interstate. As this project map and Google Maps show, it appears that the segment with the bridge was scabbed onto the previously-built 2x2 US 29/70 in a TOTSO arrangement. What's especially odd about this is that the 2x2 highway was likely built in the '40's, but replaced in the '50's, which seems rather extravagant for the time.

EDIT: The existing bridge was built in 1955-- it _is_ pre-Interstate! 

North of the project area, the 2x2 old road, now Green 85, continues as a freeway for only a few miles before becoming a low-grade expressway with a few interchanges, numerous grade crossings, and little if any limitation on driveway access. I've often wondered whether the freeway section was built like that or if perhaps the freeway features were added later, when the Yadkin River Bridge segment was built. 

Note also that the reconstructed road will have a narrow, grassed median with a double-faced Type a barrier like the recently-rebuilt section to the south. I wonder why they didn't use a concrete barrier with a glare screen.


----------



## diablo234

This is probably something you will never see anywhere else (except for maybe the Lake Ponchartrain Causeway and the Chesapeake Bridge and Tunnel). I-10 along with US 90 and I-55 in Louisiana has several bridges that are more than 15 miles long. 





The Atchafalaya Swamp Freeway (I-10 between Lafayette and Baton Rouge).


----------



## Professor L Gee

Tom 958 said:


> ^^ Oh, wow, the Yadkin River Bridge on I-85! It's finally being replaced: http://www.ncdot.org/projects/i85corridor/ . For years NCDOT couldn't find the money.
> 
> This section of I-85 has long fascinated me. The segment that includes the bridge is really old-- and the section north of there, also being reconstructed, is apparently even older, maybe pre-Interstate. As this project map and Google Maps show, it appears that the segment with the bridge was scabbed onto the previously-built 2x2 US 29/70 in a TOTSO arrangement. What's especially odd about this is that the 2x2 highway was likely built in the '40's, but replaced in the '50's, which seems rather extravagant for the time.
> 
> EDIT: The existing bridge was built in 1955-- it _is_ pre-Interstate!
> 
> North of the project area, the 2x2 old road, now Green 85, continues as a freeway for only a few miles before becoming a low-grade expressway with a few interchanges, numerous grade crossings, and little if any limitation on driveway access. I've often wondered whether the freeway section was built like that or if perhaps the freeway features were added later, when the Yadkin River Bridge segment was built.
> 
> Note also that the reconstructed road will have a narrow, grassed median with a double-faced Type a barrier like the recently-rebuilt section to the south. I wonder why they didn't use a concrete barrier with a glare screen.


Yeah, I hate that Yadkin River bridge. I was happy to see that they were replacing it.

Also, I never understood North Carolina's still-current fascination with green Interstates. Especially now that most of them are co-signed with US routes (or, in the case of Greensboro, _blue_ Interstates).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You mean Business Routes?


----------



## Professor L Gee

ChrisZwolle said:


> You mean Business Routes?


Yeah, exactly. I saw "Green 85" as a nickname a few years ago and decided to run with it.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Professor L Gee said:


> Yeah, I hate that Yadkin River bridge. I was happy to see that they were replacing it.
> 
> Also, I never understood North Carolina's still-current fascination with green Interstates. Especially now that most of them are co-signed with US routes (or, in the case of Greensboro, _blue_ Interstates).


What is a blue Interstate?!

Also, business Interstates are, for some reason, far rarer in the Northeast than they are in the rest of the country. I know of only one in Pennsylvania (business 83 through York) and can't think of any others from Maryland north through New England.


----------



## FM 2258

Tom 958 said:


> ^^ Oh, wow, the Yadkin River Bridge on I-85! It's finally being replaced: http://www.ncdot.org/projects/i85corridor/ . For years NCDOT couldn't find the money.
> 
> This section of I-85 has long fascinated me. The segment that includes the bridge is really old-- and the section north of there, also being reconstructed, is apparently even older, maybe pre-Interstate. As this project map and Google Maps show, it appears that the segment with the bridge was scabbed onto the previously-built 2x2 US 29/70 in a TOTSO arrangement. What's especially odd about this is that the 2x2 highway was likely built in the '40's, but replaced in the '50's, which seems rather extravagant for the time.
> 
> EDIT: The existing bridge was built in 1955-- it _is_ pre-Interstate!
> 
> North of the project area, the 2x2 old road, now Green 85, continues as a freeway for only a few miles before becoming a low-grade expressway with a few interchanges, numerous grade crossings, and little if any limitation on driveway access. I've often wondered whether the freeway section was built like that or if perhaps the freeway features were added later, when the Yadkin River Bridge segment was built.
> 
> Note also that the reconstructed road will have a narrow, grassed median with a double-faced Type a barrier like the recently-rebuilt section to the south. I wonder why they didn't use a concrete barrier with a glare screen.


Here is the news story I saw earlier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOl1kPJLSbM&feature=player_embedded

Thanks for the picture *flyinfishjoe*



flyinfishjoe said:


> I-85 in North Carolina, May 2011
> http://i55.tinypic.com/i583zn.jpg


----------



## desertpunk

May 8 2011 by interchangeableparts, on Flickr


----------



## sonysnob

*Interstate 40 California*

Some pix of I-40 in Eastern California:


----------



## festivephone

I was staying in Vancouver Canada for a year and drove right down to Vegas. Took this Video in HD on my way back up. Was really impressed with the highway around Seattle.


----------



## desertpunk

*Philly.com*



> Wednesday, May 18, 2011
> Highway Sell-Off: PA plan would let tolls on 95, Blue Route, 422
> 
> The campaign to turn America's highways back to private ownership - with electronic tollbooths that will silently tap your bank account as you drive - is accelerating here in the Northeast.
> 
> "New York and Connecticut are rolling along with bills and hearings," Frank Rapoport, partner at McKenna Long & Aldridge, one of the law firms pushing hardest for "public-private partnership" sales of state assets to private interests, tells me. "In Pennsylvania, look for a House (of Representatives) bill to hit the Capitol floor on June 6 and move on to passage."
> 
> Previous proposals, including House bills sponsored by the current Transportation Committee head, Rep. Richard Geist, R-Altoona, have failed three times. "The bill was reported out of our committee 21-3 March 3" but has since been hung up over prevailing-wage issues, House legislative analyst Greg Grasa told me. Federal contracting rules typically require union-scale wages; but Republicans want them out in case federal law changes, while Democrats want them in for the same reason. Still, Grasa calls the working bill "a solid, flexible broad-based piece of legislation" that's already been vetted by state transportation officials. "We're very optimistic."
> 
> What about New Jersey, where ex-Gov. Jon Corzine's efforts to sell the Turnpike and the Atlantic City Expressway came to grief a few years back?
> 
> Gov. Christie's "folks want a bit of education on P3s first," Rapoport told me. To help that effort along, would-be private operators will gather at an event billed as "Meet the Players" at the Trenton Marriott on June 7, including top executives from Veolia Energy, the Union Labor Life Insurance Co., AECOM, Skanska USA, Mott McDonald, Halcrow Inc., along with consultants like Rapoport and Richard Mroz.
> 
> Rapoport and his colleauges are handing around lists of key government contacts and motivated contractors, along with lists of the roads most likely to get sold around New York, Pittsburgh and other cities. Their favorite projects targeted for sales and tolls in the Philadelphia area include:
> 
> US 422 (from King of Prussia west toward Reading)
> *I-95 (at the Delaware River and in Philadelphia)
> I-476 (Blue Route through Delaware and Montgomery Counties)*
> 
> Geist's bill won't automatically privatize those roads. It sets up a seven-member committee to review proposals. The Governor and his Transportation and Budget secretaries, House and Senate Democrats and Republicans each name a member. In the House bill each member has to be a construction engiener, lawyer or other expert, not a politician or staffer. But a Senate version (S-344) sponsored by Transportation Committee boss John Rafferty, who represents Pottstown and Coatesville, would allow politicos.


----------



## Nexis

This Video follows the 413 Bus route from Downtown Seattle to the Northern Suburbs..along I-5...


----------



## Nexis

desertpunk said:


> *Philly.com*


Idk how this would work , and that would mean we wouldn't have anyway to pay for our Road and Rail Expansions if private were to run these tolls....hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A complete tour of the Tom Moreland Interchange, a.k.a. Spaghetti Junction in Atlanta, GA


----------



## mgk920

^^
I was stuck stopped right under the lowest part of that interchange on anti-clockwise bound I-285 for over an hour due to a traffic accident ahead of me during my 2004 roadtrip. Lots of time to get out, stretch, socialize with the neighbors, listen to tunes on the iPod, etc.

:nuts:

Mike


----------



## desertpunk

*I-275 into downtown Tampa FL*


Downtown Tampa by Dusty_73, on Flickr


----------



## desertpunk

*I-10 into Mobile Alabama*


Mobile, Alabama from I-10 by Dusty_73, on Flickr


----------



## hoosier

Scba said:


> It doesn't help that the more conservative-leaning northeastern counties are getting raked for this; most of the money generated by these tolls is going to...the Baltimore and DC areas. Guess that's what we get for not voting for O'Malley.
> 
> Want to drive from Baltimore to Wilmington? Have fun, already there's three tolls.


Baltimore and the DC suburbs are the wealthiest, most important, and congested parts of the state. Thus, the bulk of transportation funds should go there. 

If someone doesn't want to pay tolls to drive from Baltimore to Wilmington, they can take U.S. 40.


----------



## mgk920

hoosier said:


> Baltimore and the DC suburbs are the wealthiest, most important, and congested parts of the state. Thus, the bulk of transportation funds should go there.
> 
> If someone doesn't want to pay tolls to drive from Baltimore to Wilmington, they can take U.S. 40.


You still have to pay a (IIRC) $5 toll to cross the Susquehanna River on US 40.

The farthest downstream *FREE* crossing of that river is US 1 (it crosses the top of Conowingo Dam), located about 15-20 minutes inland from I-95.

Mike


----------



## Penn's Woods

desertpunk said:


> *Philly.com*


Sigh.
Can the state sell a road the Feds paid for 90 percent of?


----------



## Penn's Woods

mgk920 said:


> You still have to pay a (IIRC) $5 toll to cross the Susquehanna River on US 40.
> 
> The farthest downstream *FREE* crossing of that river is US 1 (it crosses the top of Conowingo Dam), located about 15-20 minutes inland from I-95.
> 
> Mike


Both 95 and 40 cost $5.00 (for now...) north/eastbound and are free the other way. US 1 is free both ways but, yes, it's not the fastest route. And you only pay three tolls between Baltimore and Wilmington - at least downtown to downtown - if you choose, coming out of downtown Baltimore, to go south of the harbor and then through the Fort McHenry Tunnel, rather than just going through Fells Point/Canton or East Baltimore (the neighborhoods east of downtown and north of the harbor) to 95 or 40.


----------



## geogregor

Just came back from another US road trip, 3600 miles across the nine states.
Started and finished in Dallas so first let's post some pictures from Dallas - Fort Worth metroplex.
Sorry for the quality of some of them, I travel alone and I'm not so good at driving and shooting pictures at the same time. 

High Five, intersection of I-635 and US Hwy 75


















I-35E driving south to Dallas


----------



## geogregor

I-35E going right next to downtown Dallas









Nawierzchni srednia bo cale okolice tego wezla sa w przebudowie, budowany jest nowy most przez Trinity river, zaprojektowany przez Caltrave.









Zolte pasy na bramownicach oznaczja ze jedzie sie pasem wyjzedzajacym z danej drogi. Tutaj widac ze 4 lewe pasy wyjezdzaja z I-35E









Here is I-30 going from Dallas to Fort Worth



























Junction of I-30 and I-820


----------



## geogregor

Getting closer to the Fort Worth downtown









Junction I-30 and I-35W, time to leave the freeway









Exit sort of in the middle, going right underneath the whole junction.



























View from the surface streets


















Poetry in concrete 


















Getting back onto I-30


----------



## geogregor

I-70 going west right next to Kansas City downtown









Junction of I-670 and I-35. Part of inner loop of KC, right south of downtown.









I-70 westbound again









and eastbound


















View from rest area in the median of I-70 west of Topeka









I-70 









I-70 









I-30 going from Dallas to Little Rock 









I-30, I like vegetation separating eastbound and westbound traffic


----------



## VoltAmps

Incredible. Simply incredible. Thanks for the tour. Hopefully there are more pics to come?


----------



## geogregor

VoltAmps said:


> Incredible. Simply incredible. Thanks for the tour. Hopefully there are more pics to come?


There will be more but not tonight, time to go to sleep


----------



## FM 2258

geogregor said:


> I-30, I like vegetation separating eastbound and westbound traffic


Nice pictures, I love trees separating the median as well...especially at night.


----------



## -Pino-

It's a strange experience not to see traffic in the other direction. Particularly when it lasts for 180 km, as I experienced in Mexico. Thankfully the yellow line at the left is a good instrument to clarify that you do not need to worry about two-way traffic.


----------



## geogregor

I-40 in New Mexico going towards Texas. You can see rumble strips 









At least decent speed limit, 75 mph means it is ok to do 85mph 




































Gas prices


















Directions









Surface looks bad from the viaduct but it is ok to drive. It is nicely patched with tar.









Wide median, I really mean wide 









Traffic on I-40 was not too busy but more so than on some other stretches of interstate I drove in the past (like I-70 or I-90)









Ladies bikers, some ride about cancer awareness, met them at the gas station.


----------



## geogregor

Leaving new Mexico









Entering Texas









View from the frontage road. I find blue signs informing about food, accommodation and gas, extremely useful. 


















Road shields, real help with navigation.


















Oklahoma City









I-35 going from Okalhoma City south to Dallas









Cut through Arbuckle Mountains (which are really hills)


----------



## MarneGator

Ugh... the High-Five Interchange...
I know I'm about to get flayed for this, but while said interchange has phenomenal presence and scale, it's such a gaudy, awful looking thing: a baroque display for something defined by its function. *
Why not just pre-rusted (whatever the term is) or grey-colored girders resting atop simple concrete columns, columns like Providence's I-95 / I-195 interchange or what's shown in some of geogregor's other pictures? Or something even more visually unified like Caltrans concrete fly-overs in California? The aesthetics of freeway structures are better defined by their form and airiness, not tawdry paint jobs and needless ornamentation.

* For the record, I will state that my favorite bridge is the rather ornate Manhattan Bridge. Overly adorned? Yes, but also a product of its time.


----------



## FM 2258

geogregor said:


> Road shields, real help with navigation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oklahoma City
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut through Arbuckle Mountains (which are really hills)


Good lord these pictures are beautiful....love the FM picture, also was wondering what the new Oklahoma state highway signs look like from the freeway....nice. Wide medians are part of what make Interstate highways great. Not all of them are wide but still love them...no headlights in your face.


----------



## VoltAmps

MarneGator said:


> Ugh... the High-Five Interchange...
> I know I'm about to get flayed for this, but while said interchange has phenomenal presence and scale, it's such a gaudy, awful looking thing: a baroque display for something defined by its function. *
> Why not just pre-rusted (whatever the term is) or grey-colored girders resting atop simple concrete columns, columns like Providence's I-95 / I-195 interchange or what's shown in some of geogregor's other pictures? Or something even more visually unified like Caltrans concrete fly-overs in California? The aesthetics of freeway structures are better defined by their form and airiness, not tawdry paint jobs and needless ornamentation.
> 
> * For the record, I will state that my favorite bridge is the rather ornate Manhattan Bridge. Overly adorned? Yes, but also a product of its time.


Come to Vancouver BC for just pre-rusted (whatever the term is) or grey-colored girders resting atop simple concrete columns thats all we have. The bare minimum. That same design of highways causes them to show their age quite quickly, where as the high 5 interchange seems to have aged much nicer. Its got incredible attention to detail and some of us can appreciate that. I personally love it. Its so much more visually appealing than what you described above.


----------



## Paddington

In Texas they like building shit that's really tacky and ugly.


----------



## Tom 958

Paddington said:


> In Texas they like building shit that's really tacky and ugly.


Arguably so, but at least they're making an effort. I wouldn't want every major interchange to be like the High Five, but there's something to be said for variety.

Here in Georgia, there's been a trend _away_ from aesthetics in the design of major interchanges. The sweeping box girders of Spaghetti Junction are a relic-- now crappy-looking AASHTO girders are the rule. 

Street-level detailing has improved, though.

Now, to sort through geogregor's epic set of pics :banana: :

Sequential signage: I like it in principle, but I don't think that posting a sign over the left lanes that tells motorists that there's an exit on the right 1/4 mile away is a very good plan. IMO, sequential signage should mention the next two or three exits that haven't yet appeared on the regular signage.









Speaking of sequential signage, I've never seen a sequential sign on a ramp, like this. IMO, it's a very good idea. 









As a Georgian, I'm insanely jealous of Texas' excellent signage and their rapid move toward Clearview. The improvement in readability is very striking.


This huge cut strikes me as very extravagant, unless... perhaps the rock removed here was needed for subbase elsewhere along the route:









AFAIK, Texas is the only state that puts crappy W-beam guardrails on its Interstate bridges, like Bulgaria hno: :


----------



## Davodavo

I was just wondering: Which is the highway with the densest traffic in the US?

Thanks in advance


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-405 near Seal Beach, California (near Long Beach & Los Angeles) 390 000 vehicles per day.

This is not the busiest in the world.


----------



## mgk920

Tom 958 said:


> This huge cut strikes me as very extravagant, unless... perhaps the rock removed here was needed for subbase elsewhere along the route:


That highway would almost certainly been tunneled instead of cut through that hill had that been in Europe.

Mike


----------



## MarneGator

Tom 958 said:


> Arguably so, but at least they're making an effort.


Oh, Dallas is _trying_, but to do what? One need not do much to improve the aesthetics a - make the columns hexagonal, make the hammerhead column-top more visually organic to its pillar, make all of the girders trapezoidal steel-boxes, etc - because function will always define structures like these. Why make a garish, superficial display when modifying elements of the engineering can deliver a visually pleasing impact?
The fly-overs between I-95 / I-195 in Providence or between I-10 / Sam Houston Tollway in Houston look great even though they have less. Or, as I mentioned before, if you prefer the all-concrete approach, look at some of what's been built in California. (not mine)



Paddington said:


> In Texas they like building shit that's really tacky and ugly.


Haha! I didn't want to the be the one to say it!

Anyway, that's the last I'll make mention of this. Carry on, lads!


----------



## Xusein

Botev1912 said:


> if by our neighbors you mean Canada, I don't think their roads are better
> 
> Montreal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-coDrnB6SYc


Quebec has crappy roads but highways in Ontario are top-notch (at least in the Toronto area except the Gardiner). They do good maintainability and their highways don't look aged like they do across the border even though the weather is arguably worse. This is off-topic though...

The crappiest highways in the US that I've experienced has either to be in Pennsylvania, the NYC area, and NY Route 17 (which is being updated to be future I-86).


----------



## Xusein

diablo234 said:


> With countries such as the US and Canada that have huge land areas and large highway networks compared with their populations, just maintaining the existing highways is a challenge.


But highway maintenance is on the state level, not federal. I think out west, this is a valid excuse but around here, states are pretty small. 

Since most European countries have more centralized highway systems and funding, perhaps the opposite is true. They have more to worry about. 

Even with our gas tax (one of the highest in the nation), CT's highways are not that great. There's been good updates here and there, but it's obvious that there isn't enough money around for overall maintenance or future expansions so the state has no choice but to go back to tolls eventually in the future.


----------



## VoltAmps

Xusein said:


> Quebec has crappy roads but highways in Ontario are top-notch (at least in the Toronto area except the Gardiner). *They do good maintainability and their highways don't look aged like they do across the border even though the weather is arguably worse.* This is off-topic though...
> 
> The crappiest highways in the US that I've experienced has either to be in Pennsylvania, the NYC area, and NY Route 17 (which is being updated to be future I-86).


Ontario is the only place in Canada with highways that are on par with USA highways. Its not even a question of funding either. Its all about location. The fact that Southern Ontario is so close to so many major US metro areas forced Southern Ontario to copy the US form of highway building, lest they look like a 3rd world country when Americans come and visit. Other areas of the country though, like Vancouver, don't have any nearby US metros to look to for guidance on highway building. Or they simply choose to purposely build inferior highways out here. Its like discovering a long lost civilization that hasn't had any contact with the outside world. Seeing what they have created while left to their own devices is sometimes disturbing and primitive. Comparing highways in WA state to BC is like night and day.


----------



## Trae

I-275westcoastfl said:


> You have to remember our gas taxes are low but a lot of tax money is spent in subsidizing the oil industry to keep the prices low, that is why the prices are lower in the US.


Subsidizing the oil industry doesn't keep our prices low. We need to stop giving them tax cuts. I highly doubt Exxon-Mobil, Conoco, Shell US, Chevron, etc., will raise gas prices if they don't get their tax cuts. With all the record profits they have been having, I SERIOUSLY doubt that.


----------



## geogregor

VoltAmps said:


> Ontario is the only place in Canada with highways that are on par with USA highways. Its not even a question of funding either. Its all about location. The fact that Southern Ontario is so close to so many major US metro areas forced Southern Ontario to copy the US form of highway building, lest they look like a 3rd world country when Americans come and visit. Other areas of the country though, like Vancouver, don't have any nearby US metros to look to for guidance on highway building. Or they simply choose to purposely build inferior highways out here. Its like discovering a long lost civilization that hasn't had any contact with the outside world. Seeing what they have created while left to their own devices is sometimes disturbing and primitive. Comparing highways in WA state to BC is like night and day.


Did you write this post while under influence???


----------



## Nexis

Trae said:


> Subsidizing the oil industry doesn't keep our prices low. We need to stop giving them tax cuts. I highly doubt Exxon-Mobil, Conoco, Shell US, Chevron, etc., will raise gas prices if they don't get their tax cuts. With all the record profits they have been having, I SERIOUSLY doubt that.


We need to stop subsidizing the Oil companies , the Airlines and then we need to get rid of some Rail regulations and watch the Private Passenger business boom again. Its not fair when the Govt subsidizes the Oil , and Air Industry's and then doesn't do the same for Rail or Sea. Its hurting our economy and prices don't seem to be any lower.


----------



## desertpunk

*I-25/C 470 interchange Denver*


Interstate 25 and C 470 Interchange, Denver by SkylineScenes, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-80 in Sacramento during the housing boom years.

Interstate 80 in Sacramento by brentj650, on Flickr


Interstate 80 in Citrus Heights by brentj650, on Flickr

I-5

Interstate 5 in Downtown Sacramento.  by brentj650, on Flickr

CA-99

CA 99 in South Sacramento by brentj650, on Flickr


CA 99 in South Sacramento  by brentj650, on Flickr


----------



## bogdymol

In April 2009 I was in the US. Now I searched my archive for some road pictures. Enjoy!

Maybe the best motorway pic I've ever caught. I-95 near Fort Lauderdale airport:










Florida's Turnpike seen from I-595:










I-95:



















American dream. It's all about this. Cruising on I-95 in Florida:










I-95 near Kennedy Space Center exit:


----------



## bogdymol

Now some pictures of Interstates in Illinois, around Chicago:

O'Hare airport:










I-90:










One of the coolest interchanges. I-90 / I-94 / I-290 seen from the 99th floor of Sears Tower:










I-90 and I-94:










I-294 and I-190:










Nice sign!


----------



## SkyView

Wow that sign that says "Hit worker 14 years jail" !!!
Makes you think while speeding, I guess...


----------



## bogdymol

SkyView said:


> Wow that sign that says "Hit worker 14 years jail" !!!
> Makes you think while speeding, I guess...


There were *a lot* of signs like this in the Chicago area. I remember that there were some roadworks and every mile I could see this sign...


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^I am in New England for a few days at the moment; on Wednesday I drove from home (Philadelphia) to Attleboro, Massachusetts. So I was in six states (mostly small ones) in the space of six hours, and I can't remember which one it was, but somewhere I saw a "have two accidents in work zones - lose your license" sign, or words to that effect. "Fines doubled in work zones" are fairly standard; you'll probably see them in most states.


----------



## bogdymol

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^I am in New England for a few days at the moment; on Wednesday I drove from home (Philadelphia) to Attleboro, Massachusetts. So I was in six states (mostly small ones) in the space of six hours, and I can't remember which one it was, but somewhere I saw a "have two accidents in work zones - lose your license" sign, or words to that effect. *"Fines doubled in work zones"* are fairly standard; you'll probably see them in most states.


I've seen this type of signs in Illinois.


----------



## Suburbanist

bogdymol said:


> I've seen this type of signs in Illinois.


Same in Colorado. They were posted all the way on I-25 widening works.


----------



## mgk920

I always like seeing images of USA roads and other things taken by average people from overseas.

:yes:



bogdymol said:


> I-95 near Kennedy Space Center exit:


Am I not the only one who notices the strange, perhaps unsettling (to the employees, especially) wording on this sign....



Also, I believe that most, if not all, USA states now charge double fines for traffic violations in construction zones and many spare no expenses in posting that fact.

Mike


----------



## bogdymol

mgk920 said:


> Am I not the only one who notices the strange, perhaps unsettling (to the employees, especially) wording on this sign....


What's wrong with it? :dunno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

After taking this exit, you won't return to earth


----------



## bogdymol

ChrisZwolle said:


> After taking this exit, you won't return to earth


It seems that I've managed to return, although I was only about 1-2 miles away from the space shuttle launching facility and I've seen space shuttle Atlantis preparing for STS-125 mission.


----------



## nerdly_dood

bogdymol said:


> It seems that I've managed to return, although I was only about 1-2 miles away from the space shuttle launching facility and I've seen space shuttle Atlantis preparing for STS-125 mission.


_You_ returned, not the crew of the Columbia in 2003.


----------



## diablo234

ttownfeen said:


> I think the completely-separated reversible HOV lanes used in Northern Virginia are the best way to go.


Houston has those as well with separate exits for the HOV lanes included. Problem is most of them are only one lane across with no shoulder so if there is an aciddent there is no way to get around it and traffic just backs up.


----------



## Professor L Gee

ttownfeen said:


> I think the completely-separated reversible HOV lanes used in Northern Virginia are the best way to go.


Having driven up and down 95 extensively, I tend to agree.


----------



## ttownfeen

What's the deal with the lack of highway lighting on Virginia?? Even in the big metros like Richmond and NoVa, there are no lights on the highways and exits? Makes it horrible to navigate at night if you're not a local.


----------



## Suburbanist

Carmageddon in Los Angeles has just begun


----------



## Professor L Gee

ttownfeen said:


> What's the deal with the lack of highway lighting on Virginia?? Even in the big metros like Richmond and NoVa, there are no lights on the highways and exits? Makes it horrible to navigate at night if you're not a local.


Lighting is inconsistent, I'll agree with that. You'll find lights in some spots but not in others... usually at certain interchanges, but not lining the roads.

However, in Hampton Roads you'll find lights on I-64 and 664 in Newport News, Hampton, Norfolk, and (IIRC) Virginia Beach... but less so in Chesapeake and Suffolk. Not sure about Portsmouth.

I'll say this though... from my experience, highway lighting in Virginia is much better than in Georgia and even Maryland.


----------



## ttownfeen

Well, I'm going to have to disagree about Georgia. In the cities, the portions of highways and exits are the exception to the rule, whereas in Richmond and NoVa the opposite is true.


----------



## ttownfeen

Suburbanist said:


> Carmageddon in Los Angeles has just begun


Only in LA.


----------



## Professor L Gee

ttownfeen said:


> Well, I'm going to have to disagree about Georgia. In the cities, the portions of highways and exits are the exception to the rule, whereas in Richmond and NoVa the opposite is true.


75/85 has streetlights in Atlanta, yeah. But I don't recall seeing a single streetlight on I-20 either in metro Atlanta or Augusta. Or 285 away from the airport. Athens, where I live? Nothing. Can't call it about Columbus, Macon, or Savannah.

Guess it all depends where you are in Virginia. I've never found it to be excessively dark there unless I was in the boonies. Question though: when was the last time you were in VA?


----------



## ttownfeen

I was there last weekend.


----------



## lafreak84

So what's up with the reconstruction of I-405?


----------



## Professor L Gee

ttownfeen said:


> I was there last weekend.


Gotcha.

Maybe when they finish all the construction, especially in Northern VA, it will be better lit. _Maybe._ :shifty:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ChrisZwolle said:


> Most highway videos are shot during low traffic hours, and often the right lane is completely free with no merging traffic whatsoever and still people don't get into the right lane, it's just for decoration.


This is what I mean:


----------



## Penn's Woods

lafreak84 said:


> So what's up with the reconstruction of I-405?


I'm feeling too lazy to check right now, but weren't they replacing an overpass or something? I think it was just a one-weekend project.


----------



## lafreak84

Apparently the Mulholland Dr bridge reconstruction is just a beginning of a 10-mile stretch widening project.

*Some info:*


> The I-405 Sepulveda Pass Improvements Project will add a 10-mile HOV lane and improve supporting infrastructure such as ramps, bridges and sound walls on the San Diego Fwy. (I-405); while widening lanes from the Santa Monica Fwy. (I-10) to the Ventura Fwy. (US-101).
> 
> This project will reduce existing and forecasted traffic congestion on the I-405 and enhance traffic operations by adding freeway capacity in an area that experiences heavy congestion. In addition to these modifications, the project will improve both existing and future mobility and enhance safety throughout the corridor.
> 
> Project benefits include a decrease in commuter time, reduction in air pollution, and promotion of ridesharing.
> 
> The I-405 Sepulveda Pass Improvements Project will:
> 
> Add a 10-mile HOV lane on the northbound I-405 between the I-10 and US-101 Freeways
> Remove and replace the Skirball Center Dr, Sunset Bl and Mulholland Dr bridges
> Realign 27 on and off-ramps
> Widen 13 existing underpasses and structures
> Construct approximately 18 miles of retaining wall and sound wall
> 
> Link: http://www.metro.net/projects/I-405/


*Some sources:*
http://www.metro.net/projects/I-405/
http://www.facebook.com/405project?sk=info

*Some news:*
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...closure-traffic-freeway-impressive-start.html
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1025940--massive-l-a-freeway-construction-project-begins
http://www.today.ucla.edu/portal/ut/work-begins-on-1-billion-i-405-99562.aspx

*Some photo:*
PHOTOGRAPH BY: Irfan Khan / Los Angeles Times
http://framework.latimes.com/2011/07/15/carmageddon-los-angeles-405-closure/









PHOTOGRAPH BY: Irfan Khan / Los Angeles Times
http://framework.latimes.com/2011/07/15/carmageddon-los-angeles-405-closure/









PHOTOGRAPH BY: Irfan Khan / Los Angeles Times
http://framework.latimes.com/2011/07/15/carmageddon-los-angeles-405-closure/









PHOTOGRAPH BY: Irfan Khan / Los Angeles Times
http://framework.latimes.com/2011/07/15/carmageddon-los-angeles-405-closure/









PHOTOGRAPH BY: Irfan Khan / Los Angeles Times
http://framework.latimes.com/2011/07/15/carmageddon-los-angeles-405-closure/









PHOTOGRAPH BY: Irfan Khan / Los Angeles Times
http://framework.latimes.com/2011/07/15/carmageddon-los-angeles-405-closure/









PHOTOGRAPH BY: Irfan Khan / Los Angeles Times
http://framework.latimes.com/2011/07/15/carmageddon-los-angeles-405-closure/









*Some renders:*








Link: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=337175864945&set=a.337174889945.55695.197583884945&type=1









Link: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=337174924945&set=a.337174889945.55695.197583884945&type=1









Link: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=354845969945&set=a.337173989945.55694.197583884945&type=1


----------



## State of the Union

Oops - Didn't read the whole thread.


----------



## Professor L Gee

Cool info, lafreak. But your second source link is from Washington.


----------



## andrestm

Chris, I really don't see your point. Never have I ever felt bothered by people using all lanes, neither in suburban nor in rural, interstate driving (800+ miles in one day).


----------



## FM 2258

ChrisZwolle said:


> This is what I mean:


Now that you've pointed this out I've been noticing this alot. Today on North Interstate 35 south of Jarrell, TX (I just passed these two cars at about 75mph):



















As you pass people on the right and stare into their car as you pass they're just absolutely clueless. hno:


----------



## Penn's Woods

andrestm said:


> Chris, I really don't see your point. Never have I ever felt bothered by people using all lanes, neither in suburban nor in rural, interstate driving (800+ miles in one day).


Suppose there are three lanes of traffic and there's someone in the middle one moving more slowly than everyone else. Suppose you're in the middle lane, you come up behind this person, and you decide to pass him to his left. Suppose the person behind you decides to pass him to his right. Now suppose both you (who just passed to the left) and the person who just passed to the right simultaneously decide to switch back into the middle lane now that you're past the slowpoke. Do you see the problem?

In most of the world, including many U.S. states, it is illegal to pass on the right, and also to drive on the left unless you're passing.


----------



## Suburbanist

andrestm said:


> Chris, I really don't see your point. Never have I ever felt bothered by people using all lanes, neither in suburban nor in rural, interstate driving (800+ miles in one day).


In a 3, 4, 5-lane carriageway, the excessive use of lanes to the left effectively reduces carrying capacity at high speeds, given you can't pass on the right (theoretically).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

If people are passing someone on the right, then that someone should not be in the left lane. Couldn't be easier.


----------



## brewerfan386

ahhh... Lane discipline (and metrication) the two, been there done that, fallback topic(s) for this thread.


----------



## Tom 958

http://www.slate.com/id/2299381/pagenum/all/#p2

:banana:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That $ 4 plane ticket was obviously a marketing stunt, nobody would otherwise fly from LAX to Burbank other than just for the heck of it.


----------



## Penn's Woods

brewerfan386 said:


> ahhh... Lane discipline (and metrication) the two, been there done that, fallback topic(s) for this thread.


Well, apparently we had a new person who didn't get it.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> That $ 4 plane ticket was obviously a marketing stunt, nobody would otherwise fly from LAX to Burbank other than just for the heck of it.


LAX? I read, in the New York Times yesterday I think, that someone was offering $4 flights between Burbank and Long Beach. Which might not be that unreasonable in the circumstances, although I wouldn't do it myself.


----------



## State of the Union

Penn's Woods said:


> LAX? I read, in the New York Times yesterday I think, that someone was offering $4 flights between Burbank and Long Beach. Which might not be that unreasonable in the circumstances, although I wouldn't do it myself.


That makes sense since Jetblue mostly flies into Long Beach.


----------



## desertpunk

People are pretty lazy when they have to fly jetliners from one side of town to the other! :nuts:

But I guess anything to avoid the 101...


----------



## Suburbanist

Carmageddon has been a flop, mostly. Traffic in Google Maps Live Traffic seems to be better than usual in LAX, all highwyas are green, save for a few sectors near Palmdale.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

On the contrary, it worked great! Everyone stayed home and there was no traffic chaos, no hours of delay, no fire trucks or ambulances stuck in traffic, no big accidents, no inaccessible public locations.


----------



## Tom 958

Plus, according to a pal of mine in LA, they reopened the 405 sixteen hours early. 

On a completely unrelated topic, I-75 in northern Macon is finally being widened, though for now only three miles or so from Pio Nono Ave to beyond US 23/Riverside Drive. The project includes total pavement reconstruction and replacement and realignment of the bridge over Riverside Drive (well, prolly the other bridges, too, but the realignment at Riverside Drive was very apparent when I drove through there last week).

So far, there's no work southward to the I-16 interchange, which IMO is tied with the I-20/I-285 west interchange in Atlanta for the most obsolete interchange in the state. GDOT had designed a new interchange including up fourteen lanes in the I-16 corridor, but I suspect that it'll not be built thusly for a while.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice video of I-70 through St. Louis


----------



## FM 2258

^^

Great video. Looks like St. Louis is totally reconfiguring their Interstate system.


----------



## soup or man

ChrisZwolle said:


> On the contrary, it worked great! Everyone stayed home and there was no traffic chaos, no hours of delay, no fire trucks or ambulances stuck in traffic, no big accidents, no inaccessible public locations.


Carmageddon was awesome. LA freeways were EXTREMELY empty (even for a Sunday, no one was driving), it was quiet in the city, plus people posted pictures like this. Something that you will NEVER see.


----------



## desertpunk

The next day...


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ It seems the HOV lane is congested also.

ROFL @ the guy planking on the highway.


----------



## desertpunk

Some shots of the 405 Detour:









http://www.flickr.com/photos/jetblue/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/jetblue/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/jetblue/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/jetblue/


----------



## Haljackey




----------



## Shifty2k5

Will someone please summarize this for me?

JetBlue offers cheap flights within LA for one day causing no one to drive?


----------



## FM 2258

Here's a video flight report of the JetBlue Carmageddon flyover:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UkVWIKVxFM


----------



## HAWC1506

nerdly_dood said:


> Having a white line on the left side of a divided highway would increase visibility, but only slightly, and more importantly, the yellow line makes it far easier to distinguish at a glance which side of the road is which without needing additional signage or arrow markings.


I beg to differ. Yellow markings wear out much sooner than white ones and have lower retroflectivity.

Washington State highways in urban areas have carpool lanes, on which an 8-inch line is used to separate it from other lanes. So 8-inch white on the right, and 4-inch yellow on the left. The yellow is practically non-existent after a few months of use, especially in adverse weather conditions and during night-time. In my experience, it almost seems like the 8-inch white line of the HOV lane becomes the new edge line.

The second point about yellow being used to distinguish direction of traffic is a non-issue when it comes to highways. On-ramps have do-not-enter signs, and will continue to be marked with yellow on the left. Not to mention, all raised reflective markings (cat's eyes) shine red when you go the opposite way.

By the time you enter a highway the wrong-way, you've already missed a lot of signage, and you're unlikely to notice that the yellow paint is on your right side.


----------



## kubam4a1

Zaphod,
The behaviour you describe could result in two small fines - one small for small speeding and another small for not sticking to the right lane.

In Poland it was often that drivers stuck to the left lane - but if the lane discipline is respected, the traffic flow is much moore smoother - ie you are able to drive within the maximum permitted speed for a larger part of drive than you used to be able, seen it on the Polish A4 motorway (not congested) myself.


----------



## diablo234

*The Dan Ryan Expressway in Chicago (I-90/I-94):*









Dan Ryan Expressway & Skyline from 35th Street by zol87


----------



## desertpunk

^^
Cool!

*95 coming into Center City Philly*


Philly Skyline (but NOT my RAV4) by PHLAIRLINE.COM, on Flickr


----------



## Xusein

The view of the skyline from the Dan Ryan is an amazing way to make a grand entrance into the city.


----------



## Trilesy

I-90/I-94 West was pretty backed up today around 1:00 PM.


----------



## Penn's Woods

desertpunk said:


> ^^
> Cool!
> 
> *95 coming into Center City Philly*
> 
> 
> Philly Skyline (but NOT my RAV4) by PHLAIRLINE.COM, on Flickr


Ah, home.



Trilesy said:


> I-90/I-94 West was pretty backed up today around 1:00 PM.


That "accident investigation site left 1 mile" intrigues me. Does that mean if you have an accident (but are still able to move) you're supposed to keep going until that point and there's a little parking area there?


----------



## mgk920

^^
Yep.

See:
http://maps.google.com/?ll=41.872597,-87.644742&spn=0.009523,0.021973&t=k&z=16

The area referred to by that sign is the paved area in the median.

There are other such areas scattered around Chicagoland.

Here in Wisconsin, WisDOT is installing investigation areas on various interchange off-ramps, especially in more urbanized areas.

Oh yea, the view of the Chicago skyline from that section of the Dan Ryan - at night - is one of my very favorite views from the entire interstate system.

:cheers:

In the opposite direction, the inbound Kennedy Expressway (I-90/94) near the Ohio/Ontario feeder interchange is pretty good, too, as the highway looks like it is heading directly into the side of a mountain of tall buildings.

Mike


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^In some places in the Northeast you now get "Fender bender? Move cars to side of road" or words to that effect.


----------



## Jschmuck

The accident investigation sites are used also for vehicles that can't be moved but are towed to those sites if/when a wrecker needs to show up.


----------



## DanielFigFoz

Here if theres a reason to call the police, you're not meant to move the cars


----------



## mgk920

DanielFigFoz said:


> Here if theres a reason to call the police, you're not meant to move the cars


Here, especially in congested places, if there are no injuries the priority is to get the highway cleared and reopened as quickly as possible. If you can, move the cars to a place where they will be out of the way and the cops will investigate everything there.

Mike


----------



## Road_UK

In Holland on matrix signs they urge drivers to find a lay-by when a small accident resulted in collateral damage only.


----------



## desertpunk

And a reminder of what could have been:


----------



## diablo234

Construction of a new Inner Belt bridge on I-90 in Cleveland.









Pier 9 Stems by innerbelt


----------



## HAWC1506

Can someone provide an in-depth explanation on how we can improve highway capacity by implementing lane discipline?


----------



## diablo234

HAWC1506 said:


> Can someone provide an in-depth explanation on how we can improve highway capacity by implementing lane discipline?


By making the left lane a strictly "passing only" land and making the right lane for slower vehicles it improves highway capacity by establishing a sense of order and making the highways safer as a result. 

Can Lane Discipline Decrease the Sensitivity of Freeway Fatality Rates to Increases in Speed Limits?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, it's a fact the U.S. freeway fatality rate is far higher than in most of Europe, despite the speed limits being significantly lower. In 2003, 5.2 people were killed per 1 billion motorway (freeway) vehicle kilometers. For instance, this was 3.8 in Germany, 4.0 in France, 2.1 in the Netherlands and 2.0 in the United Kingdom.

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_safety#KSI_by_country


----------



## Penn's Woods

Lane discipline just came up on Car Talk; a grad student who doesn't like driving, isn't comfortable above 65 mph, but has to commute 70 miles on I-65 in Indiana this summer. So she sets the cruise control to 65 and stays in the right lane "with all the trucks." The hosts, after establishing that there are two lanes each direction, said, well everyone's supposed to be in that lane unless they're passing.... So the concept is not unknown here. 

(Her specific question was that someone had told her she could improve fuel efficiency by "drafting" - as they use the term in bike racing - behind a truck. The hosts thought you'd need to be so close to the truck it wouldn't be safe.)

Talking of lots of trucks, there are times I wish we had a Sunday truck ban like Germany.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> Well, it's a fact the U.S. freeway fatality rate is far higher than in most of Europe, despite the speed limits being significantly lower. In 2003, 5.2 people were killed per 1 billion motorway (freeway) vehicle kilometers. For instance, this was 3.8 in Germany, 4.0 in France, 2.1 in the Netherlands and 2.0 in the United Kingdom.
> 
> See:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_safety#KSI_by_country


Yes, but you only hear about spectacular 50- and 60- vehicle pileups in Europe. 'Cause they're all tailgating while they drive too fast. (I'm being facetious.)


----------



## Botev1912

I made this road trip and I noticed that the interstates are in much worse condition than the state highways. The road from Ocean Shores to Kingston (before the ferry to Edmonds) was more than perfect. They were even repaving a really good section of the 101 highway with new asphalt which is completely unnecessary. There are a lot of other roads that need to be repaved but they don't even touch them. They repave nice roads instead :bash: Here are some photos from hwy 101. 99% of this highway looks like that. 109 and 104 were perfect too. It's really fun to drive on such surface. I can't understand why roads and highways in small towns are maintained really well but roads and highways in large cities are much worse. Traffic is not the only reason


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Bright Atlanta by Nrbelex, on Flickr


Clogged Arteries by Nrbelex, on Flickr


----------



## Buddy Holly

A nice video of the Eisenhower Pass (I-70) in Colorado.


----------



## mgk920

^^
I posted that one on the previous page.



Mike


----------



## Buddy Holly

mgk920 said:


> ^^
> I posted that one on the previous page.
> 
> 
> 
> Mike


Ah, OK, sorry - didn't see it!


----------



## Road_UK

It's nice to see that Merc Sprinter vans are getting becoming and more popular in the States...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Sprinter


----------



## desertpunk

*101/I-280 interchange Bernal Heights San Francisco*


blue hour in da hood... by woodwork's, on Flickr


----------



## nerdly_dood

Road_UK said:


> It's nice to see that Merc Sprinter vans are getting becoming and more popular in the States...


My uncle has one as an RV. He's generally pleased with the "van" part of it, designed by Mercedes (he pretty much ignores the Dodge badge on it) apart from two things: One, he only figured out how to turn on the air conditioner yesterday, and two, the radio always assumes that whoever tries to turn it on is actually trying to steal it, and so the anti-theft stuff always gets in the way of actually using it.

The "house" part of it, complete with kitchen and bathroom (in a Sprinter!) was made by Airstream, which is supposedly The Best (he likes that term), is actually very poorly made, stuff's breaking all the time, nothing ever works, etc.


----------



## apinamies

What I find interesting is how near motorways reach downtowns in USA. In my country motorways integrate to streets several kilometers before downtown.


----------



## FM 2258

apinamies said:


> What I find interesting is how near motorways reach downtowns in USA. In my country motorways integrate to streets several kilometers before downtown.


That's what I love about Interstate highways, they take you to the heart of the city. It seems though that sacrifices were probably made to make that happen like removing houses and other buildings.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^I was about to say - warning, generalization coming - that at some point the public in many cities (at least in cities that still have in-town residential neighborhoods, often "gentrified" and lively) started rebelling against this sort of thing. Lots of urban highway projects have been stopped, and lots that were built probably couldn't be today.


----------



## DanielFigFoz

The UK was planning loads of US style city centre motorways during the post war reconstruction but the public didn't let them, the only major cities where a little bit more than a fraction of it were done are Belfast and Glasgow. The rest was eventually stopped in Glasgow too, and they did about half in the Belfast Metro Area (they did the M1 and M2, but not the M3 to Bangor and the other one to Carrickfergus) and not so much in the rest of NI because NI was de-devolved in 1973, and it was the Northern Irish government creating the motorways there.

Imagine London with two more ring roads and the radial motorways getting into Central London!


----------



## diablo234

*The Fort Pitt Tunnel and Fort Pitt Bridge on I-376 heading into downtown Pittsburgh.*









Interstate 279 - Pennsylvania by dougtone









Interstate 279 - Pennsylvania by dougtone

Once you leave the Fort Pitt Tunnel heading east into downtown you immediately find yourself on the bridge with a view of the skyline creating one of the most dynamic entrances into the city.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

^^That is pretty cool!



Road_UK said:


> It's nice to see that Merc Sprinter vans are getting becoming and more popular in the States...


They are the best vans to use for business.


----------



## schweitzerdude

*Penn's Woods is absolutely correct*



Penn's Woods said:


> ^^I was about to say - warning, generalization coming - that at some point the public in many cities (at least in cities that still have in-town residential neighborhoods, often "gentrified" and lively) started rebelling against this sort of thing. Lots of urban highway projects have been stopped, and lots that were built probably couldn't be today.


You are absolutely right. Take Chicago for instance, when freeway building into the city began in the 50's and 60's, which was when inner city meant slums to be torn down, so might as well build a freeway through it. My brother made a killing in real estate in the 1980's and 1990's in Chicago buying residential buildings in crappy inner-city neighborhoods that went upscale - areas where you could never build a freeway now (and neighborhoods that I could not afford to live in).


----------



## Road_UK

DanielFigFoz said:


> The UK was planning loads of US style city centre motorways during the post war reconstruction but the public didn't let them, the only major cities where a little bit more than a fraction of it were done are Belfast and Glasgow. The rest was eventually stopped in Glasgow too, and they did about half in the Belfast Metro Area (they did the M1 and M2, but not the M3 to Bangor and the other one to Carrickfergus) and not so much in the rest of NI because NI was de-devolved in 1973, and it was the Northern Irish government creating the motorways there.
> 
> Imagine London with two more ring roads and the radial motorways getting into Central London!


Don't forget the Aston Express way from Spaghetti (M6, M42) straight into the city centre of Birmingham which has motorway status. 

There were (or maybe still are) plans to build another outer M25 around London which would cover northern Hertfordshire, Bedfordshire, northern Essex, Cambridgeshire, Kent between Maidstone and Ashford, Surrey and perhaps northern Hampshire, Berkshire and Buckingamshire. It would certainly relief the current "inner" M25, especially with foreign freight coming from Dover going to the rest of the country. And local police forces are sick to the teeth with foreign left-hand drive lorries side-swapping cars all the time. Especially the Germans and Poles have turned it into a hobby.


----------



## sotonsi

Road_UK said:


> There were (or maybe still are) plans to build another outer M25 around London which would cover northern Hertfordshire, Bedfordshire, northern Essex, Cambridgeshire, Kent between Maidstone and Ashford, Surrey and perhaps northern Hampshire, Berkshire and Buckingamshire.


No, there never was, other than by the ABD. There were schemes designed to parallel the M25 (both inside - A312) and outside (A404, A331, A120, A130) to relieve bits of it, but never a plan beyond that. The Oxford to East Coast Ports road (not planned for M25 relieve, but access to the South Midlands/Varsity Arc area) was the most extensive and, with the M31, the only one planned for long distance traffic.


> It would certainly relief the current "inner" M25, especially with foreign freight coming from Dover going to the rest of the country.


The M25 would get relieved, but even with 'POLO' (proposed outer London orbital) that actually touched on the Surrey/Kent section of M25, still not the foreign traffic from Dover much - only that going to the M4 and south. Maybe.


----------



## Road_UK

I read about it in The Times, complete with a map on how it was going to look like. So someone with status beyond Hyacinth Bucket (Bouquet) must have mentioned it somewhere. And with a bridge or tunnel somewhere between Maidstone and Ashford it would relief north bound traffic as well as it would connect the M11, A1 and M1 further north. It would congest the M1 a bit further though, as there is no immediate need to use the M40 for the North West.


----------



## ttownfeen

Penn's Woods said:


> Lots of urban highway projects have been stopped, and lots that were built probably couldn't be today.





diablo234 said:


> *The Fort Pitt Tunnel and Fort Pitt Bridge on I-379 heading into downtown Pittsburgh.*
> 
> Once you leave the Fort Pitt Tunnel heading east into downtown you immediately find yourself on the bridge with a view of the skyline creating one of the most dynamic entrances into the city.


Furthering this discussion, the Ft. Pitt Tunnel and the interstates into the core of Pittsburgh are projects that would never have been considered in this day and age. If former I-279/now I-376 and I-279 were even considered now, let alone built, it likely would have gone around Mt. Washington and crossed the Ohio River downstream from downtown before resuming the current course. It also would not have connected with 376 (which also would mean 376 would still be a true spur).


----------



## DanielFigFoz

Road_UK said:


> Don't forget the Aston Express way from Spaghetti (M6, M42) straight into the city centre of Birmingham which has motorway status.


Oh yes, I haven't been up that way since I was seven or so, but I used to go through there to get to Holyhead and Dun Laoghaire or Dublin North Wall quite a lot, I remember the last trip very well, it took us a couple of hours to get through Birmingham :lol:


----------



## diablo234

ttownfeen said:


> Furthering this discussion, the Ft. Pitt Tunnel and the interstates into the core of Pittsburgh are projects that would never have been considered in this day and age. If former I-279/now I-376 and I-279 were even considered now, let alone built, it likely would have gone around Mt. Washington and crossed the Ohio River downstream from downtown before resuming the current course. It also would not have connected with 376 (which also would mean 376 would still be a true spur).


Yup, alot of Interstates would not be built in this day and age just because of enviromental clearances, the amount of revitalized neighborhoods that are now in the path of the propesed freeway, etc. Even I-95 in Connecticut would not exist because it was originaly built on top of wetlands on the Long Island Sound and with dense neighborhoods surrounding the freeway, there is essentially no room for widening it despite carrying 130,000-200,000 VPD between the New York state line and New Haven.


----------



## phattonez

diablo234 said:


> Yup, alot of Interstates would not be built in this day and age just because of enviromental clearances, the amount of revitalized neighborhoods that are now in the path of the propesed freeway, etc. Even I-95 in Connecticut would not exist because it was originaly built on top of wetlands on the Long Island Sound and with dense neighborhoods surrounding the freeway, there is essentially no room for widening it despite carrying 130,000-200,000 VPD between the New York state line and New Haven.


I think that we've come to the age of underground freeways since eminent domain has become so unpopular. It's probably for the best, but the gas tax needs to be done away with and replaced with toll roads since tunnels are way more expensive than surface roads.


----------



## phattonez

ChrisZwolle said:


> Well, it's a fact the U.S. freeway fatality rate is far higher than in most of Europe, despite the speed limits being significantly lower. In 2003, 5.2 people were killed per 1 billion motorway (freeway) vehicle kilometers. For instance, this was 3.8 in Germany, 4.0 in France, 2.1 in the Netherlands and 2.0 in the United Kingdom.
> 
> See:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_safety#KSI_by_country


Think that has to do with the crazy amount of signs on US freeways? Or maybe some other factor?


----------



## phattonez

Botev1912 said:


> I made this road trip and I noticed that the interstates are in much worse condition than the state highways. The road from Ocean Shores to Kingston (before the ferry to Edmonds) was more than perfect. They were even repaving a really good section of the 101 highway with new asphalt which is completely unnecessary. There are a lot of other roads that need to be repaved but they don't even touch them. They repave nice roads instead :bash: Here are some photos from hwy 101. 99% of this highway looks like that. 109 and 104 were perfect too. It's really fun to drive on such surface. I can't understand why roads and highways in small towns are maintained really well but roads and highways in large cities are much worse. Traffic is not the only reason


LA is revitalizing a lot of its freeways right now with some thing I've never seen before. They patch up the really bad spots with cement and then kind of gloss over the whole freeway with this substance that seems to fade within a few months. It's nice when it's done but it doesn't seem very stable. They are also redoing the asphalt in the emergency lanes and on and off ramps. Anyone have any info on this road repair technique? Just another clue, the road gets very dusty the morning after this is applied.


----------



## Penn's Woods

phattonez said:


> Think that has to do with the crazy amount of signs on US freeways? Or maybe some other factor?


Do we really have significantly more signage than other countries?


----------



## Road_UK

I find that hard to imagine with the overflow of signs being displayed in the UK and Germany.


----------



## desertpunk

phattonez said:


> Think that has to do with the crazy amount of signs on US freeways? Or maybe some other factor?


In Europe generally, getting a driver's license is much more difficult and expensive a process. So they graduate better drivers than the US, and drivers who cherish their privilege more. In the US, driving is seen much more as a 'right', (like procreation ) that anyone regardless of their skills and abilities, is entitled to.


----------



## hoosier

FM 2258 said:


> That's what I love about Interstate highways, they take you to the heart of the city. It seems though that sacrifices were probably made to make that happen like removing houses and other buildings.


Those things DID happen- there is nothing "probable" about it.

Interstates ruined cities- they destroyed urban fabric and minority neighborhoods. The least valuable and most run down parts of cities are located along freeways for good reason.


----------



## Agurv

PA turnpike is the worst road in America. Some interstates in NY are bad but there is no comparison IMO.


----------



## Tom 958

Yesterday I and my wife and son drove to my daughter's place in Charlotte, NC, then moved my daughter's things to her new apartment in Greensboro. A few observations:

Appropos of the current conversation, downtown Greensboro is several miles from the surrounding freeways, but is linked to them with a network of excellent arterials, some of which could be called expressways, and most of which aren't numbered.

Advocates of lane discipline should avoid the 2x3 section of I-85 between Greensboro and Lexington. My daughter had to go back to work in Charlotte and was afraid we'd be late. Not to worry about speed: The middle lane was full of drivers travelling at 80 mph. The left lane was about 1/4 full of drivers travelling at 80.1 mph. The right lane was empty.

Me: "I think I'll try something bold and new by driving in the right lane." 

Daughter: "Dad, DON'T! They don't _do_ that here!" :lol:

Speeds are fast in North Carolina. Long ago NC was known for aggressive speed enforcement, but those days are long gone. 80 mph is commonplace on NC freeways.

The long-awaited Yadkin River reconstruction/relocation of I-85 seems rather anticlimactic. The new Yadkin River bridge will be simple spans, maybe steel, maybe AASHTO girders, and not much higher above the river than the current bridge. Given the years of delay, I'd envisioned something more impressive. Oh, well. :/ 

NC doesn't understand the concept of control cities.  The correct control city for I-77 running southward from Charlotte is Columbia, but they also use Rock Hill (a sizeable town just over the SC border) and Pineville (the suburban town were I-485 and I-77 south cross), which confused the hell of of my directionally-challenged wife and son. The control city for I-77 northward from Charlotte is Statesville, which is where I-77 and I-40 cross, but the signs on I-485 toward Statesville use Huntersville instead, which is where I-485 meets I-77 on the north side of Charlotte. This is especially irritating since the temporary end of I-485 will be with us for years to come-- Huntersville _is not_ a decision point. 

If I were king of NC, the first damned thing I'd do is decree the posting of sensible control cities on all NC highways. 

South Carolina is implementing the Clearview font.  Clearview signage was implemented on Green 85 in Spartanburg a while back, but now it's appeared on about 70% of the signs on I-85 north of Spartanburg as well. I imagine that the full conversion will take a while since SC signage is in good shape overall, but the commitment has been made.


----------



## Trilesy

Agurv said:


> PA turnpike is the worst road in America. Some interstates in NY are bad but there is no comparison IMO.


I drove through the middle portion of Pennsylvania turnpike last December (between Pittsburgh and Bedford) and was very surprised. It was very smooth and well maintained (with a new asphalt surface). 

I drove through the Eastern portion of it back in 1999 and it was BAD back then. I guess there was some serious reconstruction done on some portions in the recent years.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^I actually like the Turnpike (for the scenery and so on, but the roadway itself is...how to put it...good enough that I've never noticed its condition); I just wish it weren't so damned expensive.


----------



## Penn's Woods

desertpunk said:


> In Europe generally, getting a driver's license is much more difficult and expensive a process. So they graduate better drivers than the US, and drivers who cherish their privilege more. In the US, driving is seen much more as a 'right', (like procreation ) that anyone regardless of their skills and abilities, is entitled to.


On the other hand, I've read that until the '70s, Belgium was giving out driver's licenses with no qualifying process (driver education, test...) whatsoever. So watch out for late-middle-aged, or older, Belgians?


----------



## Xusein

The worst interstate in the country is I-278 in NYC.


----------



## HAWC1506

phattonez said:


> LA is revitalizing a lot of its freeways right now with some thing I've never seen before. They patch up the really bad spots with cement and then kind of gloss over the whole freeway with this substance that seems to fade within a few months. It's nice when it's done but it doesn't seem very stable. They are also redoing the asphalt in the emergency lanes and on and off ramps. Anyone have any info on this road repair technique? Just another clue, the road gets very dusty the morning after this is applied.


I haven't seen what they do in LA, but in Washington, we do something called concrete grinding.

After a while of use, concrete pavement starts to rut and the original tinning texture on the concrete wears out. The technique is to replace the worst panels and then grind away the top 5 to 10 mm of concrete to again create a smooth surface. The grinding of course creates a "glossy" looking surface for the first few days, and then disappears.

On another subject, *I almost got in an accident today. :bash:*

I overtook a tow truck on the left that was doing 50 in the middle lane (which is stupid), and the Mercedes van behind me overtook the tow truck on the right (which is idiotic). Then we both decided to move back into the middle lane afterwards at the same time (which was dangerous). At least the Mercedes van had side markers so I could see him, whereas most American and Japanese cars don't.

God I hate our driving culture.


----------



## phattonez

HAWC1506 said:


> I haven't seen what they do in LA, but in Washington, we do something called concrete grinding.
> 
> After a while of use, concrete pavement starts to rut and the original tinning texture on the concrete wears out. The technique is to replace the worst panels and then grind away the top 5 to 10 mm of concrete to again create a smooth surface. The grinding of course creates a "glossy" looking surface for the first few days, and then disappears.


I don't think so, because when they do this I see flat stones in the road as if they've poured new concrete. Though if they did just pave concrete on top of the old concrete I can't imagine they used a very thick layer.



> On another subject, *I almost got in an accident today. :bash:*
> 
> I overtook a tow truck on the left that was doing 50 in the middle lane (which is stupid), and the Mercedes van behind me overtook the tow truck on the right (which is idiotic). Then we both decided to move back into the middle lane afterwards at the same time (which was dangerous). At least the Mercedes van had side markers so I could see him, whereas most American and Japanese cars don't.
> 
> God I hate our driving culture.


At least the Mercedes used a blinker. I hate when I'm trying to move into a lane and then after I put on my blinker and start moving over somebody out of nowhere with no blinker decides to jump into that lane. There are way too many problems with that, probably the worst being the fact that they obviously didn't check their blind spot.

My biggest pet peeve has to be people tailgaiting me in the slow lane for going 60 mph. I do this at times to save gas, and some a-hole decides that I'm going too slow so I need to be taught a lesson rather than just passing me up on the left.


----------



## phattonez

Xusein said:


> The worst interstate in the country is I-278 in NYC.


You ought to see the road condition on the 10 in El Monte (outside of Los Angeles). 

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=El+Mo...,-95.677068&sspn=40.188298,86.572266&t=k&z=20

And check out what is hopefully the worst off-ramp in the United States.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=El+Mo...,-95.677068&sspn=40.188298,86.572266&t=k&z=21

(Make sure to turn the 45 degree view on)


----------



## phattonez

hoosier said:


> Those things DID happen- there is nothing "probable" about it.
> 
> Interstates ruined cities- they destroyed urban fabric and minority neighborhoods. The least valuable and most run down parts of cities are located along freeways for good reason.


Not interstates. Eminent domain ruined cities. Freeways and cities can coexist harmoniously. It's the practice of eminent domain that needs to die a quick, merciless death.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Penn's Woods said:


> I just wish it weren't so damned expensive.


It's cheaper than any toll road in Europe... About 3 times cheaper than French toll roads. In France that trip would cost you almost $ 80 from NJ to OH... one way!


----------



## Agurv

Trilesy said:


> I drove through the middle portion of Pennsylvania turnpike last December (between Pittsburgh and Bedford) and was very surprised. It was very smooth and well maintained (with a new asphalt surface).
> 
> I drove through the Eastern portion of it back in 1999 and it was BAD back then. I guess there was some serious reconstruction done on some portions in the recent years.


They've done some work on it in the past years but I certainly wouldn't consider it anywhere near good. There are some parts of that road I start saying well **** I hope my tires don't go. 

I've changed my mind on the worst road, now that I think of it. Not even sure if its an interstate to be honest

But its got to be that little stretch of highway going from I-95 to the Lincoln Tunnel. 
That road has more pot holes then smooth surfaces. I think the problem is, if they ever decided to somehow close a lane for construction it would create TERRIBLE traffic. I mean its bad as it is there now. The lanes are really narrow

But yeah I-278 is pretty bad.


----------



## Agurv

diablo234 said:


> *The Fort Pitt Tunnel and Fort Pitt Bridge on I-376 heading into downtown Pittsburgh.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interstate 279 - Pennsylvania by dougtone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interstate 279 - Pennsylvania by dougtone
> 
> Once you leave the Fort Pitt Tunnel heading east into downtown you immediately find yourself on the bridge with a view of the skyline creating one of the most dynamic entrances into the city.


Used to drive this everyday from Carnegie going home. Something that bothers me about Pittsburgh is that people automatically slam on the brakes before they go into a tunnel


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's cheaper than any toll road in Europe... About 3 times cheaper than French toll roads. In France that trip would cost you almost $ 80 from NJ to OH... one way!


I'm well aware of that.

I have E-ZPass, which automatically extracts $35 from my bank account when my balance dips below $10. So cheaper tolls - a dollar or two to cross a bridge - I don't even feel, but if I drive far enough on the Turnpike the chances of dipping below $10 and thus paying $35 are pretty high.

But driving through the mountains and all those tunnels can be spectacular, and between the service areas (new and clean, mostly, and some of them quite large) on the road itself (which free Interstates don't have) and the long distances between exits (judging from a thread on the AARoads forum, the 36 miles between Bedford and Somerset is one mile short of the maximum for the whole country), I actually often think "the best roads in Europe must be like this."

I've honestly never noticed the condition of the road - maybe it's worse around Pittsburgh.


----------



## siamu maharaj

HAWC1506 said:


> I haven't seen what they do in LA, but in Washington, we do something called concrete grinding.
> 
> After a while of use, concrete pavement starts to rut and the original tinning texture on the concrete wears out. The technique is to replace the worst panels and then grind away the top 5 to 10 mm of concrete to again create a smooth surface. The grinding of course creates a "glossy" looking surface for the first few days, and then disappears.
> 
> On another subject, *I almost got in an accident today. :bash:*
> 
> I overtook a tow truck on the left that was doing 50 in the middle lane (which is stupid), and the Mercedes van behind me overtook the tow truck on the right (which is idiotic). Then we both decided to move back into the middle lane afterwards at the same time (which was dangerous). At least the Mercedes van had side markers so I could see him, whereas most American and Japanese cars don't.
> 
> God I hate our driving culture.


Given that you can legally overtake from both sides, he was driving on the right side of the law! This is also a common situation to find yourself in, esp. on 4 lanes or more highways. One should always look out for it when there's a really slow vehicle in the middle and everyone's trying to overtake it. It's always a good idea to look out for other vehicles that are overtaking at the same time and anticipate what they'll do.


----------



## Penn's Woods

siamu maharaj said:


> *Given that you can legally overtake from both sides*, he was driving on the right side of the law! This is also a common situation to find yourself in, esp. on 4 lanes or more highways. One should always look out for it when there's a really slow vehicle in the middle and everyone's trying to overtake it. It's always a good idea to look out for other vehicles that are overtaking at the same time and anticipate what they'll do.


You can?
Lots of people do, but that doesn't make it legal (in most places), and this situation is precisely why you shouldn't. It's also not legal (in most places) for "really slow vehicles" to be in the middle, and this is precisely why.

Digest of state "keep right" laws:
http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/right.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, this problem can happen in countries with lane discipline as well. For instance if you're on a 3-lane freeway (one way), and you're in the #1 lane, passing someone in the #2 lane and get back into the #2 lane while someone on the #3 lane decides to pass someone at the same time, you can still collide with each other.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Great photo:

the 405 at Sunset Blvd by gsgeorge, on Flickr


----------



## JackFrost

There was a documentation yesterday on TV about a project to connect Russia with Alaska over the Bering strait with a 90 km bridge. 

Will it ever be realized? What do you think about this project? Sounded pretty much impossible for me to build a bridge like this. Anyway it would be amazing to go by car (or train) from Europe to North America (and even South America)...


----------



## mgk920

HAWC1506 said:


> I haven't seen what they do in LA, but in Washington, we do something called concrete grinding.
> 
> After a while of use, concrete pavement starts to rut and the original tinning texture on the concrete wears out. The technique is to replace the worst panels and then grind away the top 5 to 10 mm of concrete to again create a smooth surface. The grinding of course creates a "glossy" looking surface for the first few days, and then disappears.


Not in states that prohibit the use of tires with tungsten-carbide studs. Illinois, Minnesota and Wisconsin all prohibit them and as a result, freeway concrete around here that is over 20 years old still 'sings' like it was new.

:yes:

Mike


----------



## mgk920

phattonez said:


> Not interstates. Eminent domain ruined cities. Freeways and cities can coexist harmoniously. It's the practice of eminent domain that needs to die a quick, merciless death.


The powers of eminent domain is very necessary for modern life to exist. Think, if there was no eminent domain power for the highway department (or whatever other infrastructure agency, public or private), the owner of ONE HOUSE can prevent a badly needed infrastructure improvement project of whatever kind (highway, railroad, sewer main, airport, seaport, high-energy power line, etc) from being built and multiply that by however many are out there and commerce - and thus life - would quickly grind to a halt. The Fifth Amendment clearly allows for it with "just compensation".

Yes, eminent domain powers have been abused, but they are still very necessary.

Mike


----------



## desertpunk

Penn's Woods said:


> On the other hand, I've read that until the '70s, Belgium was giving out driver's licenses with no qualifying process (driver education, test...) whatsoever. So watch out for late-middle-aged, or older, Belgians?


:lol: Indeed.

And watch out because any sudden moves and there could be Moules Frites all over the road!


----------



## themoreurban

I wish some of our highways were like the ones in Tokyo. :banana::banana:


----------



## phattonez

mgk920 said:


> The powers of eminent domain is very necessary for modern life to exist. Think, if there was no eminent domain power for the highway department (or whatever other infrastructure agency, public or private), the owner of ONE HOUSE can prevent a badly needed infrastructure improvement project of whatever kind (highway, railroad, sewer main, airport, seaport, high-energy power line, etc) from being built and multiply that by however many are out there and commerce - and thus life - would quickly grind to a halt. The Fifth Amendment clearly allows for it with "just compensation".
> 
> Yes, eminent domain powers have been abused, but they are still very necessary.
> 
> Mike


There are ways to get around such scenarios, such as offering more (the obvious choice), choosing a different path, or going below ground. With the latter two, the property owner loses out on the possibility to make some good money, so I really don't think it's as much of a problem as you're making it out to be.


----------



## Professor L Gee

Agurv said:


> Used to drive this everyday from Carnegie going home. Something that bothers me about Pittsburgh is that people automatically slam on the brakes before they go into a tunnel


People do that when going from Hampton to Norfolk, VA (or vice versa) also. We recognize them as out-of-towners. :lol:


----------



## DanielFigFoz

In Portugal tunnels often have lower, and even more ignored speed-limits. On a motorway the speed limit is 120km/h, in tunnels normally 100 or 80 and cars go through them and the rest of the motorway at 140-150 average. Then again, they can't be fined outside the tunnel until they're going at 140 and the police don't really care :lol:


----------



## Trilesy

Jack_Frost said:


> There was a documentation yesterday on TV about a project to connect Russia with Alaska over the Bering strait with a 90 km bridge.
> 
> Will it ever be realized? What do you think about this project? Sounded pretty much impossible for me to build a bridge like this. Anyway it would be amazing to go by car (or train) from Europe to North America (and even South America)...


That's a great idea in general, but it's not gonna happen anytime soon. This area is so far north (with very harsh winters) and there is barely any road infrastructure there (especially on the Russian side). Most people up there get around by boat or air. Even if you build a bridge you would need to build thousands of miles of roads to connect it to main towns on both continents.


----------



## Agurv

If you've ever driven on the Pittsburgh interstates you should know an oncoming ramp into traffic is non existent in most places.


----------



## hammersklavier

Agurv said:


> PA turnpike is the worst road in America. Some interstates in NY are bad but there is no comparison IMO.


Hardly. The worst road I've ever ridden on was some Interstate down near Newport News, VA, back around 2000. [/snark]

I think part of it is that MD Interstates are so good (read: overbuilt) that they make the perfectly adequate PA roads look bad by comparison.


----------



## Trilesy

Now that we started talking about worst roads we've ever driven, I would say that eastern part of Columbus bypass ring is the worst I've driven so far (I drove through there in Dec 2010). It had hundreds of "killer" potholes and was the first time I got seriously worried about keeping my car in one peace.


----------



## urbanlover

Downtown Detroit to the Ohio state line


----------



## geogregor

mgk920 said:


> KEWL! Give me a little 'heads up' and I might be able to show you around for a bit! Appleton is along US 41 about 160 km north of Milwaukee, right in the middle of where you are going. Wisconsin is amazingly scenic and has many SWEET roads for driving. You'll love it.
> 
> :cheers1:
> 
> Mike


I'm leaving Chicago on Monday morning 19th of September. My plan is to go to Milwaukee, visit the Harley Davidson museum, then in the evening drive to Green Bay to see the packers stadium. In the next days I'm planning to head more or less straight north through Iron Mountain, L'Ansee all the way to Keweenaw Peninsula.
I guess I could go from Milwaukee to Green Bay via US41 rather than I-43
According to Google it's only 20min extra


----------



## Tom 958

geogregor said:


> I guess I could go from Milwaukee to Green Bay via US41 rather than I-43
> According to Google it's only 20min extra


If I were going that way, I'd definitely take US 41. A motorway that was largely upgraded to motorway status from a lesser road would surely be more interesting than one that was built as a motorway.


----------



## Nexis

*NJ 4 Eastbound
*

DSCN2865 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN2866 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN2867 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*Interstate 95 Northbound*


DSCN2869 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN2870 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN2871 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN2872 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN2874 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN2875 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN2876 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN2877 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN2880 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN2881 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN2884 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


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## mgk920

Tom 958 said:


> If I were going that way, I'd definitely take US 41. A motorway that was largely upgraded to motorway status from a lesser road would surely be more interesting than one that was built as a motorway.


Us 41 is also construction-geek heaven right now as WisDOT is busy upgrading it to six lanes in the Oshkosh to Neenah area and through the Green Bay area. For some current images of the work on the Oshkosh-Neenah section, you can check the cameras at: http://www.511wi.gov/Web/Cameras.aspx?countyfilter=Winnebago Traffic moves fine through those zones, though. If you have a chance, there is an interesting aviation museum along US 41 in Oshkosh, run by the Experimental Aircraft Association ( http://www.eaa.org ) that is well worth checking out.

BTW, that section of US 41 (Milwaukee-Green Bay) is scheduled for 'promotion' to full interstate status within the next few years and its number is expected to be decreed by AASHTO this fall.

The Packers are scheduled to play at the Carolina Panthers (Charlotte, NC) on Sunday, 18-SEP, so you should not find any problems with rooms and so forth in the Appleton or Green Bay areas that evening and the stadium tour, et al, is FANTASTIC! Lambeau Field is located right off of US 41 on Lombardi Ave on Green Bay's southwest side and you can see it from northbound US 41 as you are coming into town. My family will be spending its 50th season in our two front-row seats in the south end zone this year, too (a friend and I will be in them for the season opener vs. the New Orleans Saints on 8-SEP).

The visiting NFL teams normally stay at a hotel that is just a few blocks from where I currently reside here in the downtown Appleton area.

Late September/early October is the peak of the fall-color season in the Wisconsin and Michigan northwoods. The already amazing scenery in that area takes on a totally magical quality during that time.

Also, the Harley-Davidson museum is located on 6th St immediately south of the recently renovated downtown Milwaukee Amtrak station (called the 'intermodal station') and very nearly under the shadows of the ramps of the recently-rebuilt and totally AWESOME Marquette interchange.






http://maps.google.com/?ll=43.033608,-87.921031&spn=0.008391,0.021973&t=h&z=16&vpsrc=6

Did you get my PM?

Mike


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## diablo234




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## Tom 958

Why did I just watch a video of my commute to work? hno:

This video is very recent. Until a few weeks ago, both lanes of 400 southbound had to merge into I-85. Now the right (fourth) lane of I-85 ends just before the entrance from 400, so 400 gets one lane of its own. The same thing was done at the northbound merge of I-85 and I-75 on the southside-- I'm not sure when because that merge used to be so bad that I always bypassed it on the CD.  Now the merge there is free of operational issues, but traffic slows there anyway. Force of habit, maybe?

The note just after the 400 merge onto I-85 near the beginning about I-85 there once having a grassed median-- it's not true. That was the case north of 400, but the section where the note appears was opened in 1984 and is in its original condition except striped for more lanes. Old 85 runs parallel and adjacent to the east; except for signage and guardrail updates, is also in its original early '50's 2x2 condition. It's used as a CD road, more or less.


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## wkiehl101

diablo234 said:


>


That was nice! I especially like the choice of music; it makes a good freeway song.


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## Cosmoboy

Tom 958 said:


> Why did I just watch a video of my commute to work? hno:
> 
> This video is very recent. Until a few weeks ago, both lanes of 400 southbound had to merge into I-85. Now the right (fourth) lane of I-85 ends just before the entrance from 400, so 400 gets one lane of its own. The same thing was done at the northbound merge of I-85 and I-75 on the southside-- I'm not sure when because that merge used to be so bad that I always bypassed it on the CD.  Now the merge there is free of operational issues, but traffic slows there anyway. Force of habit, maybe?
> 
> The note just after the 400 merge onto I-85 near the beginning about I-85 there once having a grassed median-- it's not true. That was the case north of 400, but the section where the note appears was opened in 1984 and is in its original condition except striped for more lanes. Old 85 runs parallel and adjacent to the east; except for signage and guardrail updates, is also in its original early '50's 2x2 condition. It's used as a CD road, more or less.


Hi, I'm the person who shot and edited this video. You are right that that particular section of 85 did not have a grassy median. The found the photo photo in the upper left hand corner online and wanted to display it in this video to show viewers what 85 used to look like before all of the widening that took place in the '80's. I should have probably worded it better in the info. bar, but I thought it was somewhat true since that factoid appeared right at the 85/400 interchange and that's pretty much where old 85 met the grassy median.


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## diablo234

Cosmoboy said:


> Hi, I'm the person who shot and edited this video. You are right that that particular section of 85 did not have a grassy median. The found the photo photo in the upper left hand corner online and wanted to display it in this video to show viewers what 85 used to look like before all of the widening that took place in the '80's. I should have probably worded it better in the info. bar, but I thought it was somewhat true since that factoid appeared right at the 85/400 interchange and that's pretty much where old 85 met the grassy median.


Great job on the video by the way. :cheers:


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## Tom 958

diablo234 said:


> Great job on the video by the way. :cheers:


Indeed! I watched all of it even though I drive that way almost every day. Good choice of music, too! 

Searching my memory (I've lived in Atlanta for over 50 years): I think that the narrow median was a feature of the original expressways built by the City of Atlanta, and as I recall the grassed median began pretty much at the city limit, just north of Lenox/Cheshire Bridge. These expressways were open to traffic when my Dad first came to Atlanta in 1952. From there to I-285, I had the impression that I-85 was pre-Interstate in design, and possibly built in increments.

One other item of minor interest: For a few days recently I commuted via I-85 to the Cleveland Avenue exit, and I used the CD road for Langford Parkway to get to I-85 to avoid having to change lanes to get to the Cleveland Avenue exit. But: I noticed that nearly as many motorists use the CD road to get to 85 as use the 85 ramp, and most of them aren't getting off at Metropolitan or Cleveland.


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## Xusein

I went down Atlanta's highways at night when I was there for a little time earlier this month. 

Drove down I-20, it's very forested outside the core.


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## siamu maharaj

Xusein said:


> I went down Atlanta's highways at night when I was there for a little time earlier this month.
> 
> Drove down I-20, it's very forested outside the core.


I've heard the Atlanta is the greenest major city in America.


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## mgk920

*New section of interstate to be designated*

On 2011-08-25, USA Federal Highway Administration Administrator Victor Mendez signed off on the designation of the Wendall H. Ford/Western Kentucky Parkway from the Edward T. Breathitt Pennyrile Parkway Parkway at Nortonville, KY to I-24 at Eddyville, KY as I-69, with the I-69 designation to then continue westward as a duplex with I-24 to the Julian Carroll/Purchase Parkway at Calvert City, KY, with the snazzy signs to be posted once a few minor upgrade details to the Western Kentucky Parkway are addressed later on this fall.

No word on what, if any, upgrades are planned for the major interchanges at either end of this new section (Western Kentucky/Pennyrile Parkways and I-24/Purchase Parkway) as later on, as more sections of the route are completed, I-69 will make turns at both locations, with each turn including a tight cloverleaf loop as part of 'mainline' I-69.

http://www.isurfwebster.com/news/news/8307-i-69-is-now-official.html

:dance::dance:

Mike


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## diablo234

siamu maharaj said:


> I've heard the Atlanta is the greenest major city in America.


While Atlanta is very "green" compared with other cities in the US, honestly it is no different then other cities in the Southeastern US. Other cities such as Charlotte, Birmingham, Orlando, Jacksonville, and Raleigh have extensive tree cover as well.


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## diablo234




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## ChrisZwolle

diablo234 said:


> While Atlanta is very "green" compared with other cities in the US, honestly it is no different then other cities in the Southeastern US. Other cities such as Charlotte, Birmingham, Orlando, Jacksonville, and Raleigh have extensive tree cover as well.


While that is true, the density of Atlanta is even lower, with numerous swaths of undeveloped lands which are mostly forested.

It's hard to spot anything outside downtown Atlanta from a higher altitude satellite photo. 

This is all urbanized:


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## diablo234

ChrisZwolle said:


> While that is true, the density of Atlanta is even lower, with numerous swaths of undeveloped lands which are mostly forested.
> 
> It's hard to spot anything outside downtown Atlanta from a higher altitude satellite photo.
> 
> This is all urbanized:
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9e/FromDowntown2Buckead.jpg


Those other cities I mentioned are the same way.


Charlotte Aerial Photography by Willamor Media, on Flickr

Again in Charlotte, just like Atlanta those forested areas contain and conceal a large amount of low density housing and undeveloped areas. Those areas in the background are all urbanized. Other cities in the Southeastern US such as Raleigh, Orlando, Jacksonville, and Birmingham all share this similarity.


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## diablo234

Video of I-40 from Mile 25 in North Carolina to Mile 446 in Tennessee through the Pigeon River Gorge.


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## hoosier

mgk920 said:


> On 2011-08-25, USA Federal Highway Administration Administrator Victor Mendez signed off on the designation of the Wendall H. Ford/Western Kentucky Parkway from the Edward T. Breathitt Pennyrile Parkway Parkway at Nortonville, KY to I-24 at Eddyville, KY as I-69, with the I-69 designation to then continue westward as a duplex with I-24 to the Julian Carroll/Purchase Parkway at Calvert City, KY, with the snazzy signs to be posted once a few minor upgrade details to the Western Kentucky Parkway are addressed later on this fall.
> 
> No word on what, if any, upgrades are planned for the major interchanges at either end of this new section (Western Kentucky/Pennyrile Parkways and I-24/Purchase Parkway) as later on, as more sections of the route are completed, I-69 will make turns at both locations, with each turn including a tight cloverleaf loop as part of 'mainline' I-69.
> 
> http://www.isurfwebster.com/news/news/8307-i-69-is-now-official.html
> 
> :dance::dance:
> 
> Mike



Meanwhile, Indiana is spending $600 million to construct 60 miles of new terrain I-69 from Evansville to Crane Naval Surface Warfare Center.


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## hoosier

HeraldTimesOnline.com
*Interstate taking shape in Greene, Daviess counties*
By Laura Lane 331-4362 | [email protected]
September 1, 2011

County Road 100 West in Greene County is gravel as it passes Mt. Nebo Mennonite Church, crosses into Daviess County and turns into County Road 1200 North.

But look to the east, and a just-built interstate overpass rises from what once was a farm field.

Stand on that concrete overpass and look north or south, and the lanes for I-69 have been cleared, as far as the eye can see, except for a strip of grass down the middle. It soon will be a 60-foot-wide median between fast-moving traffic headed in opposite directions.

At the juncture of U.S. 231 and Ind. 58, not far from the town of Scotland, trucks haul out 30,000 cubic yards of dirt every day as workers construct what is called a “tight diamond” of ramps that will lead to and from I-69.

The project employs several engineers who are responsible for earth moving — literally. As the interstate route is leveled and embankments built up, hills are cut down, and the dirt from that process is used to fill in low-lying areas.

But when there is a dirt shortage, workers use what is called a “borrow site.” For example, land adjacent to the Little Sandy strip mine near Washington is a borrow site; there is not enough soil to construct embankments for the U.S. 50 interchange, so the state bought dirt from a landowner, who retained title to the property.

Near Greene County Road 75, in the southern part of Taylor Township, crews encountered solid rock as they inched the highway along. So every day for three weeks, at precisely 2 p.m., they would set off a five-second explosive blast that shook the earth and busted up the rock so work could proceed.

Headed south toward Odon, on the west side of Ind. 58, sits a giant pile-driving hammer and a five-story-tall crane. Workers weld together seven-foot sections of 12-inch steel piling that are being driven 131 feet into the ground with 76,000 pounds of force from a hydraulic hammer.

Before long, the beams will support bridges over I-69.

Along I-69’s construction route in Greene and Daviess counties, houses sit empty. Their owners, forced to sell their homes and property for progress, have moved on. Many county roads in Daviess County, every other one, will be cut off because of the interstate. “They will be cul-de-sacked,” said Chriss Jobe, a construction engineer for the I-69 project. That’s highway construction jargon for “dead-ended.”

Every day of the week but Sunday, 100 mostly local workers, and sometimes more — from truck drivers to skilled craftsmen — are working on the I-69 extension now under way in Greene and Daviess counties. Last week, they added a night shift at the US.231/Ind. 58 interchange after falling behind during a wet spring.

When it comes time to pave the highway, different road surfaces will be used in different sections. The state’s Mechanical Empirical Pavement Design Guide gives contractors leeway in deciding whether to use concrete or asphalt as long as they use a mix tested and approved by the state.

Despite signs along rural two-lane Ind. 58 in Greene County encouraging people to help “Stop I-69,” motorists there may well be taking advantage of its smooth driving lanes and fast speed limits come the fall of 2012. The interstate is well under construction; stopping it now could be an insurmountable feat.

“There are a lot of people in Section 4 (in Monroe County) who said they would never see the highway built in their lifetime, but that their grandchildren might drive on it,” said Sam Sarvis, the Indiana Department of Transportation deputy commissioner overseeing the construction of I-69 from Indianapolis to Evansville. “Well, it’s here.”


Copyright: HeraldTimesOnline.com 2011


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## desertpunk




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## lambersart2005

cool video and song, which is it? 
for a saturday evening, i think this is incredibly dense traffic!


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## Haljackey

Giant tire in Detroit










(I-94 west towards the airport)


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## diablo234

Glenn Highway in Alaska by Timon91, on Flickr


Glenn Highway in Alaska by Timon91, on Flickr


The Glenn & Parks Highway split, Alaska by ap0013, on Flickr

The Glenn Highway (also known as Alaska Highway 1) just north of Anchorage. Believe it or not by US law this is legally considered to be part of the Interstate System despite not being up to Interstate Standards for most of it's length. The only freeway sections on the Glenn Highway are around Anchorage and Wasilla.

*Interstate Highways in Alaska*


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## diablo234

*Interstate H-3 in Oahu, Hawaii:*


Driving on the H-3 by HaYnCaNdi808, on Flickr


Hawaii Apartment - 2003 - - 21 by schworer, on Flickr


Jagged Mountains by super-structure, on Flickr


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## MarneGator

^ Oh wow. That level of scenery would surely make a daily commute more pleasant!


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## MarneGator

I-87 in New York, by hypersoar40, on Flickr









I-678 in New York, by hypersoar40, on Flickr

Uhh... how do I get these to display?


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## ChrisZwolle

MarneGator said:


> ^ Oh wow. That level of scenery would surely make a daily commute more pleasant!


Move to Honolulu and join the Navy


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## MarneGator

^ Think I'd go with Schofield Barracks, despite it being a little out of the way of the H-3. As my avatar might suggest, I'm not much of a Navy man  Besides, I rather like being "out" and in New York!


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## lafreak84

Chicago motorways

part 2 and 3 can be found on yt, follow the video below


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## ttownfeen

MarneGator said:


> I-87 in New York, by hypersoar40, on Flickr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I-678 in New York, by hypersoar40, on Flickr
> 
> Uhh... how do I get these to display?


Not sure what you were doing wrong, but I fixed it for you.


Brx i-87 by hypersoar40, on Flickr


Qns I-678 by hypersoar40, on Flickr


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## diablo234

*Interstate H-1 in Honolulu:*


H-1 Lights by Marshall Humble, on Flickr


H-1 @ Night by wertheim, on Flickr


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## diablo234

Seward Highway by Rex Stanfield, on Flickr


Seward Highway by akathryna, on Flickr


More Seward Highway by borisvolodnikov, on Flickr


Fall on Turnagain by MagneticNorth, on Flickr


Seward Highway by The Shifted Librarian, on Flickr

Seward Highway in Alaska just south of Anchorage. As I mentioned earlier under US law this is legally considered to be an Interstate despite not being up to Interstate standard.


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## siamu maharaj

What is the significance of being cosidered part of Interstate? Funding?


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## Penn's Woods

^^Yep.


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## diablo234

siamu maharaj said:


> What is the significance of being cosidered part of Interstate? Funding?


For the most part. They were also built for defense purposes as well in aiding Interstate commerce which is why Alaska and Hawaii also have Interstates despite not being near a bordering state.


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## s.p.hansen

Some segments of the I-15 CORE project in Utah County are really starting to take their shape.



i15coresept2011a by sphansen47, on Flickr



i15coresept2011c by sphansen47, on Flickr



i15coresept2011b by sphansen47, on Flickr]


In a little over a year our 24 mile I-15 freeway rebuild in Utah County will be complete. It will be 5 lanes each way for most of the project; the entire road length will be paved in concrete.


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## Highwaycrazy

^^

The left shoulder is very wide. It looks like they plan to turn that into a HOV lane at some stage?


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## VoltAmps

s.p.hansen said:


> In a little over a year our 24 mile I-15 freeway rebuild in Utah County will be complete. It will be 5 lanes each way for most of the project; the entire road length will be paved in concrete.


Grooved concrete no less! Not only is that surface a dream to drive on, its practically invincible.


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## s.p.hansen

Highwaycrazy said:


> ^^
> 
> The left shoulder is very wide. It looks like they plan to turn that into a HOV lane at some stage?


This segment will have 6 lanes including the HOV lane.


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## wkiehl101

urbanlover said:


> I-75 through Detroit


Ooooh I like


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## keokiracer

^^ :cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

Today we celebrate 71 years of the Pennsylvania Turnpike. On October 1st, 1940, the first 160-mile section opened between the cities of Harrisburg and Pittsburgh.


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## ChrisZwolle

Also today the Ohio Turnpike opened for about 220 miles across Ohio, completing this pre-Interstate toll road. It opened op October 1st, 1955, 56 years ago. It was later grandfathered into the Interstate Highway system.


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## Tom 958

Occasionally I wonder why the Indiana Toll Road was built where it was, along the state's northern border as if to avoid contaminating the rest of the state. :lol: I found this map:









Routes C and D are just silly, but Route B looks a lot more convincing than Route A. Maybe Route A used an abandoned rail right of way?

EDIT: Oh, poo. The map is at http://web.archive.org/web/20040508...indianahwys.homestead.com/files/tollplans.JPG .


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## Nexis

*NJ 495 Eastbound*


DSCN3572 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN3573 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN3574 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN3575 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN3576 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN3577 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN3578 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN3579 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


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## keokiracer

^^ Was that lane for buses only?
Does that happen very often there?


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## Nexis

keokiracer said:


> ^^ Was that lane for buses only?
> Does that happen very often there?


Every Morning from 5-9am that lane is for buses only , any bus as long as its loaded can use it. Out of service buses have to use the regular lanes.


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## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> Today we celebrate 71 years of the Pennsylvania Turnpike. On October 1st, 1940, the first 160-mile section opened between the cities of Harrisburg and Pittsburgh.


I'm not a big fan of toll roads - and the Pennsylvania Turnpike's not cheap, by American standards - but I do like the Turnpike, particularly through the mountains....



ChrisZwolle said:


> Also today the Ohio Turnpike opened for about 220 miles across Ohio, completing this pre-Interstate toll road. It opened op October 1st, 1955, 56 years ago. It was lather grandfathered into the Interstate Highway system.


Um, didn't want to leave Ohio out of the multi-quote; it's a perfectly nice state. 



Tom 958 said:


> Occasionally I wonder why the Indiana Toll Road was built where it was, along the state's northern border as if to avoid contaminating the rest of the state. :lol: I found this map:


Presumably the point was to do their segment of the route from Chicago to the east coast - handle all that traffic the Ohio Turhpike would be dumping at the state line - without having Indiana taxpayers pay for it?



Nexis said:


> *NJ 495 Eastbound*


(Um, not an Interstate.  )



keokiracer said:


> ^^ Was that lane for buses only?
> Does that happen very often there?


If it's not clear, 495 is the approach to the Lincoln Tunnel (and has existed in some form since the late '30s, by the way - the first tube of the tunnel opened in 1937). New York's main bus terminal is right at the New York end of the tunnel. So close to the tunnel that there are bus-only ramps from the tunnel into the terminal. With the volume of buses using 495 and the tunnel - heck, the volume of everyone using them - in the morning rush hour, I suspect (not being a traffic-management expert in any way) it makes sense to segregate the buses from other traffic on 495. In other words, that dedicated bus lane on 495 continues through the tunnel and right into the terminal, and that way (1) a backup of buses wouldn't affect everyone else on 495 and (2) the buses don't get stuck in backups of cars.


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## CNGL

Penn's Woods said:


> (Um, not an Interstate.  )


AFAIK it was I-495 , which was intended to bypass Connecticut from I-95 in Secaucus NJ, across all the lenght of Long Island and back to I-95 near Westerly RI.


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## Penn's Woods

It *was* I-495, indeed. And I can remember when it was I-495. But it's not an Interstate now and hasn't been for some time. (Sorry, Nexis  )


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## Nexis

Penn's Woods said:


> It *was* I-495, indeed. And I can remember when it was I-495. But it's not an Interstate now and hasn't been for some time. (Sorry, Nexis  )


There are still some interstate shieds and signs....so its an interstate to some and by regional standards...:lol:


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## Tom 958

Today congestion management tolls were imposed on HOV lanes on I-85 from just south of I-285/Spaghetti Junction to their northern end near GA 317/Lawrenceville-Suwanee Road, just south of I-985.

Project website, PeachPass site, for users

As usual, I'm too lazy to take and post pictures, but here's one taken just after the change:









Registered carpools with three or more occupants will still be able to use the lanes for free, but all users must have a PeachPass transponder. I think the PeachPass also works for the GA 400 toll booth.

The project cost about $110m, most of which was apparently spent on signs. I swear I've never seen so many goddamned signs in my life. And in such a variety of colors, too, including purple. The weird thing: having introduced purple signs, you might think that purple would be used for everything having to do with the toll lane system, but it isn't. The pricing signs are white and the access point signs are mostly green or green and purple. It's like being in Spain or Austria. :nuts:

One good thing: $36m is being used to add express bus service in the corridor. 

EDIT: Oh, wow. There's a webpage about the signs. They're MUCTD compliant, so I guess I'd better get used to them. Surely if these initial lanes are successful, the concept will be expanded metrowide.

According to that site:


> The process to change Express Lane signage to its permanent text is scheduled to begin Friday, September 16. The 10-day sign change process is planned for overnights only from 8 p.m. to 5 a.m. with up to triple lane closures on the interstate. Six crews will make the necessary changes to 105 signs on 60 support structures in the 16-mile corridor in DeKalb and Gwinnett counties


See what I mean about too many signs?



> Based on new federal guidelines (2009 MUTCD) all new Express Lane signs must have a purple background for the Peach Pass header and a green background for the sign body. Consistent
> express lane signage colors across the U.S. ensure that motorists will quickly recognize express lanes and toll lanes wherever they travel.


I think the signs weren't MUTCD compliant on the first try. Oops. hno:


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## ChrisZwolle

The idea of consistent signage of express lanes (toll lanes) throughout the United States is not bad. However in this case it's converting an existing HOV lane to a toll lane. This does not increase capacity, yet costs $ 110 million. What's the win situation? Rich people buying their way through congestion.


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## Tom 958

ChrisZwolle said:


> The idea of consistent signage of express lanes (toll lanes) throughout the United States is not bad. However in this case it's converting an existing HOV lane to a toll lane. This does not increase capacity, yet costs $ 110 million. What's the win situation? Rich people buying their way through congestion.


I'm a skeptic, too, but the fact is that the HOV lanes as constructed weren't especially effective since they weren't (and still aren't) physically separated and have few direct access points. Plus, experience has shown that on a ten lane freeway like that part of I-85, ambient carpool usage of 10% or so will absorb half of the capacity of an added HOV lane, leading to congestion that's nearly as bad as that in the general traffic lanes. The idea is to price the more marginal users out of the lane, improving conditions for transit, vanpools, carpools with 3 or more people, and emergency vehicles, plus providing a means for people who need it enough to pay with a way to get where they're going fast regardless of traffic, something that's not available today at any price. 

Whether it's worth what they've spent on it, I have my doubts. but IMO the concept is sound.

Contrary to the kneejerk reactions of conservatives, the concept comes out of libertarian theory. Also, consider the irony: Road advocates usually insist that the ability to travel quickly by car is immensely valuable-- unless the users are expected to pay for it directly, in which case it's a ripoff. :lol:


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## geogregor

I just came back from the Great Lakes and shot few pictures of the interstates
Let's start from Detroit

I-75, view from Woodward Ave









I-75, from the south of downtown


















This is the foot bridge I shot the pictures from. It is on the verge of collapse. All rusted, including visible reinforcement bars of the main deck. It was all moving and shaking. I was quickly off it 









I-80/90, Ohio Turnpike just west of Toledo, shot from one of the local county highways I was enjoying 


















Great intersection of I-43, I-94 and I-795 in Milwaukee


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## LtBk

Is Detroit the only city(or rather the metropolitan area) in the US with 70 mph speed limit?


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## geogregor

Here few shots from around Chicago 
I-294, Tri-State Tollway. It is in really good condition. 
I like the idea of transponder tolling of the main lanes (I'm not sure how they call this system in Chicago) and toll booths off the main lanes for cash or cards paying drivers like me. 


















View from one of the "Oasis" which are service areas built like in Europe, with gas stations and food joints accessible without leaving the tollway. Food court is right above the tollway. Great place for burger for a real road geek 



























Here I-94/80 in Indiana coming close to Chicago













































There was accident eastbound which caused massive tailback.









I drove a lot in the USA but never seen such heavy truck traffic like around Chicago. It might be not really visible on my pictures because I was concentrating on driving when I was overtaking hordes of semis, especially as I drive quite fast  but there were really a lot of trucks.


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## geogregor

Mackinac Bridge 
First some views from the air on the way to Chicago



























Tolls are collected on the north side































































View from the south side of the bridge


















I-75 southbound somewhere between Gaylord a Grayling.
Does anyone know why they painted double yellow and white lines there?


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## diablo234

^^ Great pics btw

Anyways Chicago is a huge distribution center and is a major hub for the Interstate system with I-94, I-90, I-88, I-80, I-55, I-57, I-65 all passing thru or terminating inside the metro area so seeing alot of semi-trailers is pretty common.


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## I-275westcoastfl

Great pics! I remember driving through Chicago, Indiana, and Michigan. Chicago is very Polish, I remember walking down the street and thinking I am back in Poland. Also some nice Polish girls walking down the street.  I have to go back someday.


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## desertpunk

Approaching the aging Spence bridge into Cincinnati from Kentucky. President Obama recently visited there to highlight that bridge 
which is in solid Republican turf, as one of the stimulus projects his jobs bill would address.


Approaching the aging Brent Spence bridge, crossing over into Ohio by aaron.davidson, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

geogregor said:


> I drove a lot in the USA but never seen such heavy truck traffic like around Chicago. It might be not really visible on my pictures because I was concentrating on driving when I was overtaking hordes of semis, especially as I drive quite fast  but there were really a lot of trucks.


I-80 near the Indiana border has the highest truck count in the nation, around 40,000 trucks per day. I-710 in Los Angeles also comes close to that.


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## gigilamoroso

hi,

does anyone know how the "new" katy freeway in houston has been working since the massive widening project completion? Regarding congestion, HOT lanes effectiveness and usage? Are there statistics somewhere or some kind of summary/balance? This was presented as a super freeway, the model for next urban freeways, so i'm curious.


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## mgk920

geogregor said:


> I just came back from the Great Lakes and shot few pictures of the interstates
> Let's start from Detroit
> 
> I-75, view from Woodward Ave


That building in the background in the former Michigan Central station, now vacant. There are some rumnblings of wanting to redevelop it, but I have heard nothing solid on that.


> I-80/90, Ohio Turnpike just west of Toledo, shot from one of the local county highways I was enjoying


The western part of the Ohio Turnpike is a long, but somewhat interesting midwestern interstate highway drive.



> Great intersection of I-43, I-94 and I-795 in Milwaukee


Isn't the 'Marquette' an *AWESOME* interchange?



geogregor said:


> I-75 southbound somewhere between Gaylord a Grayling.
> Does anyone know why they painted double yellow and white lines there?


It looks to me like the MDOT line-painting crew simply painted new lines slightly off from the old ones.



geogregor said:


> Here few shots from around Chicago
> I-294, Tri-State Tollway. It is in really good condition.
> I like the idea of transponder tolling of the main lanes (I'm not sure how they call this system in Chicago) and toll booths off the main lanes for cash or cards paying drivers like me.
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> I drove a lot in the USA but never seen such heavy truck traffic like around Chicago. It might be not really visible on my pictures because I was concentrating on driving when I was overtaking hordes of semis, especially as I drive quite fast  but there were really a lot of trucks.


The I-94 part of the Tri-State Tollway (the part in Lake County) was rebuilt a couple of years ago and is, IMHO, the very BEST road that I have ever driven on - well worth the very reasonable toll rates that are charged to use it!

I have also dined with that view of the highway many times over the years while on my way to or from Chicago or points beyond.

Also, the Borman/Kingery (I-80/94) was also just upgraded, an INTERMINABLY long project, and yes, it is one of, if not the, highest volume truck/lorry route in the USA, if not the World. You didn't stop at one of 'Krazy Kaplan's' fireworks stands in Gary, did you? :nuts:

How was the Wisconsin northwoods?

Mike


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## diablo234




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## lafreak84

Wow, awesome pictures! That Milwaukee interchange looks freaking awesome!


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## SkyView

lafreak84 said:


> Wow, awesome pictures! That Milwaukee interchange looks freaking awesome!


I concur. Have a look at it from above: http://maps.google.be/maps?q=Milwaukee,+Wisconsin,+Verenigde+Staten&hl=nl&ll=43.035615,-87.923809&spn=0.005976,0.013937&sll=50.992943,5.094034&sspn=0.020583,0.055747&vpsrc=6&hnear=Milwaukee,+Milwaukee+County,+Wisconsin,+Verenigde+Staten&t=k&z=17


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## geogregor

mgk920 said:


> How was the Wisconsin northwoods?
> Mike


Wisconsin was great. I really enjoyed driving Wisconsin Hwy 55, really cool, narrow (by American standards) road, perfect for testing the Mustang.

Thanks again for showing Green Bay and Packers field.

And I really enjoyed Michigan, stayed there for a week. It's fascinating state.


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## Mark19

which is the speed limit on highways and freeways/express ways on US?


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## Barciur

Time to roll out the invincible pic


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## Mark19

hey thanks

i have a lot of questions :lol:

like the surface of the highway, it looks like cement, but somebody told me that it was asphalt, any way it look like cement because the color is gray

and the numbering of miles, where it starts?

for example, in almost all the contries, it starts on downtown see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilometre_Zero

what about in US

thanks for your answers


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## diablo234

Mark19 said:


> hey thanks
> 
> i have a lot of questions :lol:
> 
> like the surface of the highway, it looks like cement, but somebody told me that it was asphalt, any way it look like cement because the color is gray
> 
> and the numbering of miles, where it starts?
> 
> for example, in almost all the contries, it starts on downtown see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilometre_Zero
> 
> what about in US
> 
> thanks for your answers


To the best of my knowledge that looks like a concrete surface.

Anyways regarding mile numbers for the Interstate Highway network typically the lowest numbers are in the South/West directions and highest in the North/East directions.


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## mgk920

geogregor said:


> Wisconsin was great. I really enjoyed driving Wisconsin Hwy 55, really cool, narrow (by American standards) road, perfect for testing the Mustang.
> 
> Thanks again for showing Green Bay and Packers field.
> 
> And I really enjoyed Michigan, stayed there for a week. It's fascinating state.


Kewl!

:yes:

BTW, as of this typing, the Packers are 4-0.

:cheers1:

Mike


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## Nexis

Some Interstate shots i found of the DC/NOVA area...


Crossing the Potomac by La Citta Vita, on Flickr


Waterfront, apartment buildings by La Citta Vita, on Flickr


Cameron Run Hunting Creek, Virginia by La Citta Vita, on Flickr


Alexandria, Virginia by La Citta Vita, on Flickr


Capital Beltway, Virginia & Maryland by La Citta Vita, on Flickr


Virginia, Fairfax County by La Citta Vita, on Flickr


Reston Town Center, aerial by La Citta Vita, on Flickr


Tysons Corner, Virginia by La Citta Vita, on Flickr


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## architect77

Atlanta's new HOT Lanes on I-85 North in Gwinnett County.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyEHjFl9R6w


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## architect77

deleted, sorry.


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## Jschmuck

> Isn't the 'Marquette' an *AWESOME* interchange?


sure the Marquette is pretty neat, but you want awesome? try the High Five top level in my 18-wheeler I-635 east to US-75 north! thats awesome


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## hammersklavier

Barciur said:


> Time to roll out the invincible pic


...Whose bright idea was it to show every *county* in Texas but just at the state level elsewhere?


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## keokiracer

^^ Because in Texas county's have different speed limits and in other states it's the same in the entire state.


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## Penn's Woods

I am on a road trip! :banana:

Today (Friday), I drove from home (Philadelphia) to a stop for the night at exit 152 of the Ohio Turnpike, using I-76 & I-80 - the Schuylkill Expressway, Pennsylvania Turnpike and Ohio Turnpike. Tomorrow, it's on to the Chicago area, where I'll stay for a few days, see the city and explore a bit, perhaps up to Milwaukee and Madison.... I want to have a good browse here: http://www.mapservice.com/location.shtm . Then I'll probably head to my parents' in northern New Jersey, slightly more circuitously - go through southern Michigan, just to be able to check off another state I've driven in....

Oddities today:

1) At several points on the turnpikes, there are construction zones with two lanes open, and signage ordering trucks and buses to use the left lane. I.e. what ought to be the passing lane. I don't get the rationale for this. At one point near Cleveland, I found myself in the right lane, to get out of a long line of trucks, torn between the urge to drive faster than all of them and the knowledge that that was illegal. (Not just because of the passing-on-the-right thing, but because the speed limit was 50 m.p.h. in these construction zones.) I did it anyway, suspecting that the people behind me would appreciate that.

By the way, talking of lane discipline, I saw several overhead signs on the Ohio Turnpike (in areas with three lanes each way) saying "trucks and slower traffic use two right lanes). Much good it does.

2) Road trains! I saw a few trucks in Ohio consisting of a cab and two or even three trailers. Does that not happen farther east, or have I just never noticed it? And if it doesn't happen farther east, perhaps because it's illegal, do they all sort of disassemble at the Pennsylvania line? I've thought of road trains as an Australian phenomenon until now; it's an Australian expression.

3) One cool thing about northern Ohio is being able to pick up Radio-Canada (in French) from across the lake.


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## Jschmuck

I drive an 18-wheeler myself so I can clear up the info about the road trains; triples and double 48ft trailers are limited to the turnpikes ONLY (not any PA turnpikes), east of the Mississippi, and a few states west of the Mississippi except California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. Double 28ft trailers aren't as restricted. Now what happens when such Turnpike vehicle reaches a restricted state or an exit it needs, you might notice large parking lots at the toll booths (both beginning/end tollbooths and interchange tollbooths) where the trailers are exchanged, dropped, picked up, so the vehicle is made legal before entering a state that doesn't allow triples or double 48ft'ers. (trivia, 48ft is not the longest van box trailer, i pull a 53ft which are more common actually, then there are 57ft van box trailers allowed in very few states west of the Mississippi)

Penn's Woods, if you come to Wisconsin you might as well check out Lambeau Field! (if you do, take I-43, US-41 is under construction for expansion)

BTW you also pick up Canadian radio stations around Buffalo, NY and northern NY (French actually)

And about some construction zones that ask trucks to use left lane, that usually means the construction zone is shifting traffic to the right where the shoulder is utilized as well as the right lane, the shoulders aren't as strong as the normal travel lanes and thus large vehicles traveling on the shoulder temporarily, can damage the shoulder.


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## State of the Union

ed110220 said:


> Wow, that's quite a photo! What strikes me is how close the suburban(?) houses go to the freeway. Did the buildings come first and then the interchange was put in? There must have been a lot of clearance if it was.
> 
> Also the "wrong-side" exits (I was going to say right-hand exits, but then I realised a right hand exit is normal in the USA).


Allot of houses had to be taken out.

Those "wrong-side" exits are HOV-Direct connectors. Carpool traffic can seemlessly travel between I-105 to I-110 North and vice versa.


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## JohnFlint1985

I was wondering if anyone knows about it. a friend told me that he saw a widening of I 95 between Baltimore and Washington. I think it is possible that he can be mistaken if this was really where he claims it was. according to him he saw interchanges being rebuilt and widening of the road a great deal.

Does this rally goes on?


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## Frank IBC

JohnFlint1985 said:


> I was wondering if anyone knows about it. a friend told me that he saw a widening of I 95 between Baltimore and Washington. I think it is possible that he can be mistaken if this was really where he claims it was. according to him he saw interchanges being rebuilt and widening of the road a great deal.
> 
> Does this rally goes on?


There are only two superhighways between Washington DC and Baltimore - the Baltimore-Washington Parkway (opened 1954, two lanes each way) and I-95 (opened 1973). Neither of these highways have been widened. 

However, several parts of 1-95 south of Washington and north of Baltimore have been widened or reconstructed:

-"Mixing Bowl", I-95 at Capital Beltway, Springfield, Virginia - interchange reconstructed

-Capital Beltway between "Mixing Bowl" and Woodrow Wilson Bridge - currently being widened from 8 to 12 lanes

-Woodrow Wilson Bridge - across Potomac River at Alexandria, Virginia - widened from 6 to 12 lanes, raised from 10 m above river to 21 above river

-Interchange between 1-95 and I-895 (Harbor Tunnel Thruway), east of Baltimore, reconstructed

-Interchange between I-95 and I-695 (Baltimore Beltway, northeast of Baltimore) undergoing reconstruction.

-Also, the entire section of the Capital Beltway in Virginia, from the Woodrow Wilson Bridge to the Cabin John Bridge is undergoing widening from 8 lanes to 12 lanes.


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## ChrisZwolle

JohnFlint1985 said:


> I was wondering if anyone knows about it. a friend told me that he saw a widening of I 95 between Baltimore and Washington. I think it is possible that he can be mistaken if this was really where he claims it was. according to him he saw interchanges being rebuilt and widening of the road a great deal.
> 
> Does this rally goes on?


It could be the construction of the Intercounty Connector which is being built as an east-west route through the area.


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## Penn's Woods

JohnFlint1985 said:


> I was wondering if anyone knows about it. a friend told me that he saw a widening of I 95 between Baltimore and Washington. I think it is possible that he can be mistaken if this was really where he claims it was. according to him he saw interchanges being rebuilt and widening of the road a great deal.
> 
> Does this rally goes on?


There's widening north of Baltimore. From the point of view of someone heading south, it starts - if memory serves - a bit north of interchange 67 (White Marsh Blvd./Md. 43), possibly close to the next interchange (74). Can't remember if it ends at the Beltway interchange or continues to the 895 fork. Both those interchanges - 95/695 and 95/895 - were rebuilt a couple of years ago. According to signage, they're building "express toll lanes."

I don't think there's anything going on along 95 itself between Washington and Baltimore, but the Intercounty Connector's being built (an east-west route across the northern suburbs of Washington, connecting I-95 to I-270) - parts are already open - and the construction of its interchange with 95 is certainly conspicuous if you're on 95. Last time I was there it looked as if the interchange was pretty much in place but not open yet.

EDIT: Wrote that before reading Frank's and Chris's posts. Looks like they covered much of it.

:cheers:


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## Tom 958

Looking at the ICC/I-95 interchange on Google Maps, I see that there are both a high speed ramp and a loop ramp for the eastbound ICC to northbound I-95 movement. That tells me that the CD's from that interchange will be extended to the next interchange northward, which could easily be mistaken for a widening of I-95.

EDIT: There's a ramp braid for the southbound direction, too. Yep, looks like there'll be a CD system on I-95 connecting two or three interchanges.


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## Frank IBC

Ah, for some reason I forgot about the ICC and related construction along I-95. In addition to the overpasses and ramps for the ICC, and CD lanes (there are now three exits fairly close together), there are also overpasses for new local roads. This covers most of the 4 miles between the interchanges with MD-212 and MD-198, out of the 22 miles total between the two beltways.

That's probably what your friend saw, JohnFlint1985.


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## Trilesy

Penn's Woods said:


> At one point near Cleveland, I found myself in the right lane, to get out of a long line of trucks, torn between the urge to drive faster than all of them and the knowledge that that was illegal. (Not just because of the passing-on-the-right thing, but because the speed limit was 50 m.p.h. in these construction zones.)


Why was it illegal? Passing on the right is legal in Ohio.


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## Squiggles

These are pictures I took a little over a year ago driving from Madison, Wisconsin to Biloxi, Mississippi. 


Interstate 55/70 in west-central Illinois just before I-64 near St. Louis









Interstate 255 about to cross the Mississippi River just south of St. Louis









Close-up of the bridge









Interstate 255/Interstate 55 interchange. To the left, cut out of the picture, is a sign indicative of following I-255 to I-270 if you're trying to get to Kansas City









I-55 facing north towards St. Louis from the overpass where I-255 becomes I-270









I-55/I-40 split just west of the Mississippi River near Memphis









I-55 in southern Memphis, just before the Tennessee/Mississippi state line


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## Penn's Woods

Frank IBC said:


> Ah, for some reason I forgot about the ICC and related construction along I-95. In addition to the overpasses and ramps for the ICC, and CD lanes (there are now three exits fairly close together), there are also overpasses for new local roads. This covers most of the 4 miles between the interchanges with MD-212 and MD-198, out of the 22 miles total between the two beltways.
> 
> That's probably what your friend saw, JohnFlint1985.


If the C/D system reaches 212, they may as well extend it to the Beltway....



Trilesy said:


> Why was it illegal? Passing on the right is legal in Ohio.


Ah. I forgot about Ohio's lane-discipline issues. ;-) (Although today, from North Ridgeville to Indiana, it wasn't that bad.)

Seriously, it is legal there? That would explain, as I remarked some time ago, 275 around your neck of the woods. I just assumed. But there are overheads along the Turnpike all the way across (except in construction zones, and where it drops to two lanes west of Toledo) reading "Trucks and Slower Traffic Use 2 Right Lanes." And they're black-on-white, not black-on-yellow, so I'd take that as mandatory.

A lot of wind across Ohio and Indiana, but the weather's glorious in Chicago today. Went right across the Turnpike, Indiana Toll Road, and Chicago Skyway, then through the city on the Ryan, Kennedy and Edens, and up the Tristate to where I'm staying in Lake County. (Sorry that sounds like a Chicago traffic report: it would be interstates 80, then 80/90, then 90, then 90/94, then 94.) Intentionally took the route through the city even though there was heavy traffic (and WBBM told me there would be), because I wanted to see it.

More tomorrow. Sorry (slightly) I'm not a photographer, but I think it's probably just as well that I don't try it while driving.

Off topic to Trilesy: what's with the Eagles logo: are you from Philadelphia or just a masochist? ;-)


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## Trilesy

Penn's Woods said:


> Ah. I forgot about Ohio's lane-discipline issues. ;-) (Although today, from North Ridgeville to Indiana, it wasn't that bad.)
> 
> Seriously, it is legal there? That would explain, as I remarked some time ago, 275 around your neck of the woods. I just assumed. But there are overheads along the Turnpike all the way across (except in construction zones, and where it drops to two lanes west of Toledo) reading "Trucks and Slower Traffic Use 2 Right Lanes." And they're black-on-white, not black-on-yellow, so I'd take that as mandatory.


That sign is just a measure to keep slower traffic in the right 2 lanes, but it doesn't mean that you can't pass on the right. In general, drivers are not encouraged to pass on the right, but it is still legal.



Penn's Woods said:


> Off topic to Trilesy: what's with the Eagles logo: are you from Philadelphia or just a masochist? ;-)


I used to live in Eastern PA (Lebanon) before moving to Cincinnati, so it's a heritage thing. The "dream team" had a rough start this season and tomorrow's game will pretty much answer the question whether they're going into playoffs or not. Bengals suck big time, so they'll never have me as their fan.


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## Penn's Woods

^^After the way the baseball season ended (hence my current sig), I don't have the energy to care about the Eagles.


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## diablo234




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## diablo234

Trilesy said:


> Why was it illegal? Passing on the right is legal in Ohio.


In some states it is illegal, however it is a common courtesy that slower vehicles use the right lane and other faster vehicles use the left lane.


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## diablo234




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## desertpunk

*I-30 Arlington TX*


I-30 by the urban fabric, on Flickr

*The High Five, Dallas*


high five, Dallas by Manish Mamtani, on Flickr


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## Lum Lumi

diablo234 said:


>


Great video, thanks. :cheers:


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## Trilesy

diablo234 said:


>


I loved it, really cool.


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## michael_siberia

My fault


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## TheCat

Anyone else here ever run out of coins to pay tolls on the Atlantic City Expressway?

My friend and I did a little tour of the Northeast last week in a rental car (NYC, Jersey City, Atlantic City, Washington DC, Philadelphia, and back), and after paying the toll several times on the Atlantic City Expressway and accidentally taking the wrong exit, we realized (upon re-entering the freeway) that we didn't have enough coins, so we had to drive through a toll without paying (it was a $0.75 toll).

This was one of those automated basket-type toll booths that only accept coins with no one manning them, and we did not have EZ-Pass.

Upon doing some research on the Internet, this seems to be a somewhat common occurrence. Now have to wait and see if the rental company gets the charge (and charges me an arm and a leg in administrative fees ).


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## diablo234

TheCat said:


> Anyone else here ever run out of coins to pay tolls on the Atlantic City Expressway?
> 
> My friend and I did a little tour of the Northeast last week in a rental car (NYC, Jersey City, Atlantic City, Washington DC, Philadelphia, and back), and after paying the toll several times on the Atlantic City Expressway and accidentally taking the wrong exit, we realized (upon re-entering the freeway) that we didn't have enough coins, so we had to drive through a toll without paying (it was a $0.75 toll).
> 
> This was one of those automated basket-type toll booths that only accept coins with no one manning them, and we did not have EZ-Pass.
> 
> Upon doing some research on the Internet, this seems to be a somewhat common occurrence. Now have to wait and see if the rental company gets the charge (and charges me an arm and a leg in administrative fees ).


Maybe you can call their customer service line, explain your situation, and offer to pay any tolls so you don't get hit up with fines? I know toll roads in Illinois and Texas offer you the option to pay any tolls later if you failed to pay at the toll booth with no fines attached.

Anyways I have heard that the Atlantic City Expressway is supposed to go all electronic in the near future (similar to Highway 407).


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## Penn's Woods

TheCat said:


> Anyone else here ever run out of coins to pay tolls on the Atlantic City Expressway?
> 
> My friend and I did a little tour of the Northeast last week in a rental car (NYC, Jersey City, Atlantic City, Washington DC, Philadelphia, and back), and after paying the toll several times on the Atlantic City Expressway and accidentally taking the wrong exit, we realized (upon re-entering the freeway) that we didn't have enough coins, so we had to drive through a toll without paying (it was a $0.75 toll).
> 
> This was one of those automated basket-type toll booths that only accept coins with no one manning them, and we did not have EZ-Pass.
> 
> Upon doing some research on the Internet, this seems to be a somewhat common occurrence. Now have to wait and see if the rental company gets the charge (and charges me an arm and a leg in administrative fees ).


Did you rent that car in New York? I'm surprised that your car didn't have E-ZPass. (Not that I've rented a car in the Northeast lately; it may be normal practice, for all I know, not to provide E-ZPass - and charge you for your tolls, of course. But it shouldn't be normal practice.)

I hardly ever use the Atlantic City Expressway, notwithstanding living about 15 miles from one end of it....


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## Penn's Woods

diablo234 said:


> Maybe you can call their customer service line, explain your situation, and offer to pay any tolls so you don't get hit up with fines? I know toll roads in Illinois and Texas offer you the option to pay any tolls later if you failed to pay at the toll booth with no fines attached.
> 
> Anyways I have heard that the Atlantic City Expressway is supposed to go all electronic in the near future (similar to Highway 407).


I was just in the Chicago area - every tollbooth on the Tollways, far as I can tell, has a little sign as you pull out giving you a web address to go to, within 7 days, if you didn't pay your toll.

Have heard nothing about the ACE going all-electronic, not that I necessarily would. As I said, I don't use it. But I'm practically local.


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## diablo234

In this article they mentioned that the ACE is expected to go with "all electronic" toll collection in two to four years.

*Philadelphia Inquirer - Atlantic City Expressway plans all-electronic tolling*


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## TheCat

On their website they do mention that you can pay the toll later, but it must be done within 48 hours and they only accept payment by cheque or money order. I don't have a cheque book (haven't used a cheque in many years - it is not nearly as common in Canada as it is in the US). Either way it would be complicated as I was in the middle of my trip, away from home.

Either way, it is too late now.


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## Penn's Woods

diablo234 said:


> In this article they mentioned that the ACE is expected to go with "all electronic" toll collection in two to four years.
> 
> *Philadelphia Inquirer - Atlantic City Expressway plans all-electronic tolling*


Must have missed the paper that day, or forgotten. :bash:



TheCat said:


> On their website they do mention that you can pay the toll later, but it must be done within 48 hours and they only accept payment by cheque or money order. I don't have a cheque book (haven't used a cheque in many years - it is not nearly as common in Canada as it is in the US). Either way it would be complicated as I was in the middle of my trip, away from home.
> 
> Either way, it is too late now.


Hmm.
Well, if they're that fussy about the forms they'll accept payment in, I'd move on with a clear conscience; and they're unlikely to pursue you in Canada for, what was it - 75 cents?

Off-topic: why are checks (U.S. spelling) so rare in Canada? Although at this point, I write one a month, to pay my rent.


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## ChrisZwolle

Checks fell completely out of use in Europe years ago. They also abolished traveler checks a while back because nobody uses them in this age of credit cards and bank transactions via the internet..


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## TheCat

Penn's Woods said:


> Off-topic: why are checks (U.S. spelling) so rare in Canada? Although at this point, I write one a month, to pay my rent.


I think people still use them for large transactions and possibly to pay rent (I currently live with my parents, so I don't have this expense), but like Chris said, I mostly use my credit and debit cards (for convenience and credit history - I never actually maintain debt on my credit card).

For larger transactions I use Internet electronic transfers (in Canada it is usually done via Interac, which costs about $1.50 per transaction if done via the Internet). I also pay all of my bills online.

I also noticed that the US still hasn't adopted PIN-based credit cards, so I had to sign the receipts everywhere. It is becoming increasingly rare in Canada (and in Europe too - as I saw on my trip there in 2010). I'm used to punching my PIN number instead in most locations.

Interestingly, from an article written in 2007 (http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2007/12/28/debit-cards.html):



> "Canadians are among the highest users of debit worldwide," said Romano. "Last year, Canadians made more than three billion Interac Direct Payment transactions worth $148 billion, and each year this number continues to rise."
> 
> The debit card is the preferred method of payment for one out of two Canadians and there are more than 35 million debit cards in circulation in Canada, according to the association.


Though, I personally prefer using my credit card over my debit card since I also get some cash back.


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## Penn's Woods

I use cash for amounts up to about $20.00, unless I don't have enough on me. I record everything I do (and check against bank records) rather than just relying on the bank to do it, so I'd rather have the occasional receipt for a $100.00 cash withdrawal than a pile of receipts for $5.00 and $10.00 debit-card transactions.

So next time I go to Canada, will I need to arrange first for a PIN on my credit cards that don't have them? (I have three credit cards plus my debit card. Two of the credit cards charge no fee on international transactions, so I'd use them there.)


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## TheCat

Penn's Woods said:


> I use cash for amounts up to about $20.00, unless I don't have enough on me. I record everything I do (and check against bank records) rather than just relying on the bank to do it, so I'd rather have the occasional receipt for a $100.00 cash withdrawal than a pile of receipts for $5.00 and $10.00 debit-card transactions.


Yeah I carry some cash with me as well, though I do use my credit card for small transactions too (have used it for transactions < $2 before :lol. I rarely use my debit card. In Canada we also have coins for $1 and $2 amounts, which I find annoying to carry. I mainly use cash for places that accept nothing else (not very common) or to pay friends back when we split costs and put everything on someone's credit card.



> So next time I go to Canada, will I need to arrange first for a PIN on my credit cards that don't have them? (I have three credit cards plus my debit card. Two of the credit cards charge no fee on international transactions, so I'd use them there.)


No need for a PIN card - the old way of swiping the card still works.

BTW - sorry for hijacking this thread. This discussion probably belongs more in the roadside rest area thread.


----------



## mgk920

*New section of Interstate designated*

In their meeting of 2011-10-15, AASHTO approved marking I-69 on US 77 from I-37 in Corpus Christi, TX to TX 44 in Robstown, TX, no date was set for erecting signs:

http://www.transportation.org/sites/route/docs/USRN Report to SCOH Oct 15 2011.pdf

(notice is on page 8)

:dance:

Mike


----------



## desertpunk

I-69 :naughty:

It would be unfulfilling to go just one way down that highway...


----------



## desertpunk

*I-15 Barstow CA*


Interstate 15 by Eric Demarcq, on Flickr


----------



## diablo234

I-10 in San Antonio. One of the few double decked freeways in the US.


----------



## FM 2258

Nexis said:


> Interstate 280 Eastbound...
> 
> <snip>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , on Flickr


Nice pictures....I never understand why governments put such a low speed limit on freeways. It seems like a joke. I remember two weeks ago I was coming to the end of Interstate 89 in Concord, NH and for the last mile the speed limit went down to 40 mph. I slowed down to 40 but it felt ridiculous.


----------



## Paddington

desertpunk said:


> *I-15 Barstow CA*
> 
> 
> Interstate 15 by Eric Demarcq, on Flickr


:drool:


----------



## Fargo Wolf

desertpunk said:


> I-69 :naughty:
> 
> It would be unfulfilling to go just one way down that highway...


*snickers* :tongue3:


----------



## Penn's Woods

desertpunk said:


> *I-15 Barstow CA*
> 
> 
> Interstate 15 by Eric Demarcq, on Flickr


What's the vegetation among the sand? Cactus?


----------



## fredcalif

diablo234 said:


>


Diablo

Thanks for those wonderful videos that you post here.
the one from Phoenix and this owe was very nice

keep them coming


----------



## fredcalif

hammersklavier said:


> Growth that won't happen for the foreseeable future as that particular housing type is no longer a growth sector in the U.S. market. Keep in mind that Arizona is among the hardest-hit states of the recession, having lost its economic modus operandi in addition to its primary growth market. And also keep in mind the looming oil and water problems there...


which Water problem?

I have lived in and work with some engineers that provide most of the water in the valley of the sun.

we don't have water restrictions here. maybe when we get to millions people then we will have problems.

People in the East think that we have water problems here.
I got a pool at home and a lot of grass that I water almost every day.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Atlanta also has water issues, while it's not anywhere near an arid region.


----------



## geogregor

fredcalif said:


> which Water problem?
> 
> I have lived in and work with some engineers that provide most of the water in the valley of the sun.
> 
> we don't have water restrictions here. maybe when we get to millions people then we will have problems.
> 
> People in the East think that we have water problems here.
> I got a pool at home and a lot of grass that I water almost every day.


However you look at it, green golf courses, lush lawns and open pools in desert areas are not sustainable in the long term without significant import of water.
At some point you will hit the limits of population growth.


----------



## fredcalif

geogregor said:


> However you look at it, green golf courses, lush lawns and open pools in desert areas are not sustainable in the long term without significant import of water.
> At some point you will hit the limits of population growth.


We will figure it out, one way or another we will survive and this deset metroplis will thrive and keep growing


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think the main problem will be the depletion of the Colorado River and its reservoirs. The river doesn't have significant melt water during the summer period, most of the Rocky Mountains do not have glaciers or eternal snow until you hit Montana or further north. I think only the Green River in Wyoming drains glaciers. 

It's about time they invent an apparatus that can make tap water out of desert sand.


----------



## diablo234

fredcalif said:


> Diablo
> 
> Thanks for those wonderful videos that you post here.
> the one from Phoenix and this owe was very nice
> 
> keep them coming


No problem.

Here is a video of I-70 thru Utah's San Rafael Reef.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Driving back from North Carolina through Altanta, love the massiveness and chaos.


----------



## geogregor

fredcalif said:


> We will figure it out, one way or another we will survive and this deset metroplis will thrive and keep growing


No, you won't keep growing indefinitely. At some point cost of importing water will be too high.
Not to mention screwing environment completely.

Also at some point people from other regions might refuse to sell you water to keep your golf courses green and your pools blue 

Anyway, it's becoming OT.


----------



## mgk920

*New section of Interstate open*

I don't have any article links handy, but the NY 17 bypass of Parksville, NY opened very recently with two-way traffic on its eastbound side. The westbound side will open when it is completed in a few months. This eliminates a very nasty traffic-signal intersection from NY 17 and the highway will become I-86 when the last of it between I-81 at Binghamton, NY and the New York State Thruway (I-87) at Harriman, NY is brought up to standards.

Here is a recently-posted drive around of the area, both the new road (its eastbound side is now open) and the former road in this very rural area:






Also, see:
http://maps.google.com/?ll=41.856009,-74.766598&spn=0.036695,0.087891&t=k&z=14&vpsrc=6
for an overview of this area.

:dance:

Mike


----------



## diablo234




----------



## Paddington

Are those your videos Diablo?


----------



## Paddington

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yep, places like Las Vegas or Phoenix would not have been so big without air conditioning. For instance, they do not have any important history for their existence. Denver and Salt Lake City were important railroad junctions and had a population of over 100,000 since the late 19th century or early 20th century. Phoenix and Las Vegas did not really exist at that time as a city of any significance.
> 
> I always wondered why Albuquerque never boomed as much as Phoenix did.


Arizona is more Republican/capitalist/business friendly than New Mexico, so it grows faster. For example, Arizona is right to work, and New Mexico is not.

Part of it might also be the climate. People go to Arizona seeking hot, desert weather. I would go there because of my allergies/asthma. Albuquerque is 5,000 feet up, which probably makes it hard for old retirees with COPD to breath there. It also gets proper cold there in the winter, which means that people looking to escape the snow belt aren't going to go there.


----------



## diablo234

Paddington said:


> Are those your videos Diablo?


Nope, I just find them and post them here.


----------



## diablo234




----------



## diablo234




----------



## fredcalif

diablo234 said:


>


beautiful highway.

that is why I love living in Arizona.
the desert, the forest, the snowed mountains and everything in between


----------



## diablo234

A video of I-25 thru Denver.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Definitely one of the best freeways in the Rocky Mountains. Maybe even the best, it only has to rival I-15 in Salt Lake City.


----------



## mgk920

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ Definitely one of the best freeways in the Rocky Mountains. Maybe even the best, it only has to rival I-15 in Salt Lake City.


Has that freeway taken on a 'cobblestone' texture on its driving surface yet (characteristic of the use of studded tires)? I recall that when I was in that area during a roadtrip in the 1990s, all of the freeways were like driving on cobblestones and that the concrete on one of them (I-270 NW of old Stapleton Airport) was worn so deeply that it was breaking through in places.

Mike


----------



## desertpunk

I-395 Alexandria VA


I-395, Alexandria by BeyondDC, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Ex VA-350 and ex I-95. 

These are apparently the oldest reversible lanes in the United States.


----------



## diablo234

desertpunk said:


> I-395 Alexandria VA
> 
> 
> I-395, Alexandria by BeyondDC, on Flickr


That picture must have been taken on a good day. During rush hour I-395 just like every other freeway/expressway in the DC area is backed up beyond belief.


----------



## diablo234

mgk920 said:


> Has that freeway taken on a 'cobblestone' texture on its driving surface yet (characteristic of the use of studded tires)? I recall that when I was in that area during a roadtrip in the 1990s, all of the freeways were like driving on cobblestones and that the concrete on one of them (I-270 NW of old Stapleton Airport) was worn so deeply that it was breaking through in places.
> 
> Mike


Nope, they just redid all of the freeways in the Denver area (with the exception of the I-70 viaduct) so they all have brand new pavement.

The T-Rex expansion alone added several new lanes to I-25, not to mention new interchanges, and a new light rail line aloingside the freeway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Mahwah. Probably the strangest control city.


DSC_0998 by I.C. Ligget, on Flickr


----------



## Penn's Woods

Stranger than "Del Water Gap" or "Smith Road"? 

Seriously, don't get me started on American control-city practices. Navigating here by destinations is like navigating in Europe by route numbers. ;-)


----------



## mgk920

You're telling me! The first couple of times that I went roadtripping in that area during the late 1990s the 'Del Water Gap' control completely befuddled me. 'Pennsylvania', in the same manner as IDOT uses 'Indiana', 'Iowa' and 'Wisconsin' as controls in and around Chicago, would have been much clearer!

'Mahwah', though, is a legitimate city in New Jersey and Smith Road is one of the local roads that the ramps at that interchange give direct access to.

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Mahwah is pretty small, but not reasonable alternatives like major cities are located along I-287. Mostly small suburbs not distinguishable from the other.

I-80, on the other hand, is a major transportation route, however, it does not directly serve any significant cities in Pennsylvania. I think Cleveland or Scranton would've been signed if this was in Europe. For a country the size of the United States most control cities are surprisingly close by.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Well, Illinois is the other extreme from New Jersey: "Memphis" all the way up in Chicago for I-57? As opposed to Kankakee or Champaign-Urbana? Or both? And I don't know what we have against putting more than one place on a sign. (So: Kankakee, Memphis. Joliet, St. Louis. South Bend, Toledo. You get the idea.)


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> Mahwah is pretty small, but not reasonable alternatives like major cities are located along I-287. Mostly small suburbs not distinguishable from the other.
> 
> I-80, on the other hand, is a major transportation route, however, it does not directly serve any significant cities in Pennsylvania. I think Cleveland or Scranton would've been signed if this was in Europe. For a country the size of the United States most control cities are surprisingly close by.


I think a lot of states might go with Albany for 287 northbound. But New Jersey's allergic to places out of state. Even "New York" tends to take a back seat to Newark. And Philadelphia doesn't exist until you're within sight of the skyline.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Penn's Woods said:


> Well, Illinois is the other extreme from New Jersey: "Memphis" all the way up in Chicago for I-57? As opposed to Kankakee or Champaign-Urbana? Or both? And I don't know what we have against putting more than one place on a sign. (So: Kankakee, Memphis. Joliet, St. Louis. South Bend, Toledo. You get the idea.)


Most countries usually have 2 or 3 major cities listed as a control city. What is "major" depends on the context. On I-57, Memphis is by far the largest city in terms of population, but for rural Illinois, Kankakee or Champaign-Urbana are pretty "major" places. However, I think Kankakee or Champaign-Urbana are too unknown for out-of-staters, so by adding Memphis is gives a better defined direction where the Interstate is going to. 

Just be happy that you don't have Polish control cities  Then Cairo would've been signed all the way across Illinois. And East St. Louis will be signed all the way on I-55, instead of St. Louis itself.


----------



## michael_siberia

> Just be happy that you don't have Polish control cities


:yes: Especially immortal Jędrzychowice on A4 (BTW - how to spell it being non-Pole? :lol

@ Denver movie
Why the southern entrance has speed limit 75 and northern one - only (silly) 55?


----------



## Paddington

Penn's Woods said:


> I think a lot of states might go with Albany for 287 northbound. But New Jersey's allergic to places out of state. Even "New York" tends to take a back seat to Newark. And Philadelphia doesn't exist until you're within sight of the skyline.


Typical Jersey. :no:


----------



## ManRegio

I don't know if someone posted it before, but I think it's a nice video. 

*The stacks of Texas*


----------



## Nexis

There popular places for New Jerseyites to get away , Smith road is a busy road if i'm not mistake with alot of warehouses. Mahwah has a very large college and few corporations and the Del Water Gap attracts alot of tourists...


----------



## Professor L Gee

Penn's Woods said:


> I think a lot of states might go with Albany for 287 northbound. But New Jersey's allergic to places out of state. Even "New York" tends to take a back seat to Newark. And Philadelphia doesn't exist until you're within sight of the skyline.


Interestingly enough, Philadelphia doesn't exist as a control city even in Baltimore. Just New York. Philly maybe shows up on some mileage signs, but that's about it.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^I am well aware of it. New York is completely out of hand.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Nexis said:


> There popular places for New Jerseyites to get away , Smith road is a busy road if i'm not mistake with alot of warehouses. Mahwah has a very large college and few corporations and the Del Water Gap attracts alot of tourists...


"They're"
"a lot"

The thing about Interstates is, they serve people from multiple states, not just local daytrippers. I-80 goes all the way across the country. Most states would post the next major city. Granted, Cleveland's a bit far from New Jersey....


----------



## Nexis

Penn's Woods said:


> "They're"
> "a lot"
> 
> The thing about Interstates is, they serve people from multiple states, not just local daytrippers. I-80 goes all the way across the country. Most states would post the next major city. Granted, Cleveland's a bit far from New Jersey....


Theres nothing on the PA side , at least in terms of big cities. The Del Water Gap extends onto the PA side and includes a few towns on that side. Why does everybody seem to have an issue with what my state does , its always something wrong , or not normal by US standards....its fine by Jersey standards...


----------



## diablo234

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^I am well aware of it. New York is completely out of hand.


It's probably because most north-south traffic gets off at I-95, and then heads over the Delaware Memorial Bridge into the New Jersey Turnpike therefore bypassing Philadelphia.



michael_siberia said:


> @ Denver movie
> Why the southern entrance has speed limit 75 and northern one - only (silly) 55?


It's because at that point there are two major interchanges with I-70 and US 36, I-76, and I-270 so traffic counts along that section are high.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Nexis said:


> Theres nothing on the PA side , at least in terms of big cities. The Del Water Gap extends onto the PA side and includes a few towns on that side. Why does everybody seem to have an issue with what my state does , its always something wrong , or not normal by US standards....its fine by Jersey standards...


To me, the Delaware Water Gap is that little spot where the river cuts through the mountains; I wouldn't say it includes "a few other towns." Stroudsburg, for example, I wouldn't say was part of the Water Gap. The Poconos might be a label for that area that would be known to more people.

I was born and raised in New Jersey myself, so I'm not an outsider picking on you. I find U.S. control-city practices in general open to a lot of criticism. The insistence on having just one place per sign leads to some choices that I find strange, and unhelpful to navigation. Europe is much better at this sort of thing.



diablo234 said:


> It's probably because most north-south traffic gets off at I-95, and then heads over the Delaware Memorial Bridge into the New Jersey Turnpike therefore bypassing Philadelphia.


Philadelphia is the second-largest city on the east coast. By any definition of the term "major city," it's the next major city north of Baltimore. Yet Maryland just posts New York on 95 there. (And when you cross into Delaware, New York suddenly disappears in favor of "Wilmington, Philadelphia.") I'm not sure about what "most traffic" does there - I don't know the traffic counts, but at the northbound split there are two lanes leading to the bridge and three staying on 95. But, again, why the insistence on one place per sign? "Philadelphia, New York" would work. (I believe Maryland posts "Baltimore, New York" at the exits from the Capital Beltway to 95 northbound.)


----------



## Professor L Gee

Penn's Woods said:


> Philadelphia is the second-largest city on the east coast. By any definition of the term "major city," it's the next major city north of Baltimore. Yet Maryland just posts New York on 95 there. (And when you cross into Delaware, New York suddenly disappears in favor of "Wilmington, Philadelphia.") I'm not sure about what "most traffic" does there - I don't know the traffic counts, but at the northbound split there are two lanes leading to the bridge and three staying on 95. But, again, why the insistence on one place per sign? "Philadelphia, New York" would work. (I believe Maryland posts "Baltimore, New York" at the exits from the Capital Beltway to 95 northbound.)


Baltimore, definitely. But I don't recall seeing New York that far south.

EDIT: Yes, New York does show up that far south, especially coming from the direction of Silver Spring. Can't believe I didn't remember... and I made that trip regularly between the beltways for two years.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

New HOV lane on I-15 in the north of Salt Lake City:


I-15 at 1000 North in Salt Lake City, looking north by CountyLemonade, on Flickr


----------



## Paddington

HOV lanes? :gaah:


----------



## desertpunk

Paddington said:


> HOV lanes? :gaah:


In Utah too. Hence the two cars going down it.


----------



## fredcalif

ManRegio said:


> I don't know if someone posted it before, but I think it's a nice video.
> 
> *The stacks of Texas*


Texas freeways are out of this world, nothing come close in the USA or the world to this.
Texas is now the king of freeways and stacks.
There are so many projects around DFW that Dallas will overtake Houston soon :banana::banana::banana::banana:


----------



## diablo234

Speaking of Texas Interstates.



> *I-69 signs to go up in South Texas *
> By Michael Lindenberger
> 
> Well it's official. Texas has a new Interstate highway.
> 
> Texas transportation commissioners voted minutes ago to begin erecting Interstate 69 signs on a 6.2-mile stretch of U.S. 77 between Interstate 37 and State Highway 44 in Nueces County in south Texas near the Gulf of Mexico. The Texas segment of the 1,000-mile interstate is expected to eventually stretch from Texarkana to the border.
> 
> Polk County Judge Judge John Thompson, chairman of the Alliance for I-69, hailed the decision in a press release issued by TxDOT.
> 
> "It's a visible sign of the progress being made on I-69," Thompson said. "This is the result of the strong partnership between the Alliance for I-69 Texas, TxDOT, the I-69 Segment Committees, the I-69 Advisory Committee and the many elected officials and community leaders along the I-69 route in Texas that have remained committed to and focused on the development of the system."
> 
> ........


----------



## CNGL

ManRegio said:


> I don't know if someone posted it before, but I think it's a nice video.
> 
> *The stacks of Texas*


Great video, here in Spain there is only one stack, at M-40/A-1/E05 interchange.

BTW, the President George Bush Turnpike, is a very narrow dirt road in very bad condition? Or is not named after that George Bush, but after his father?


----------



## FM 2258

Nexis said:


> Theres nothing on the PA side , at least in terms of big cities. The Del Water Gap extends onto the PA side and includes a few towns on that side. Why does everybody seem to have an issue with what my state does , its always something wrong , or not normal by US standards....its fine by Jersey standards...


I just looked at a map, Interstate 80 doesn't hit any "big" cities in Pennsylvania. Next "big" city is Youngstown, Ohio from New Jersey.


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> New HOV lane on I-15 in the north of Salt Lake City:
> 
> 
> I-15 at 1000 North in Salt Lake City, looking north by CountyLemonade, on Flickr


I remember there was some large widening of I-15 going on. Is it part of this project?


----------



## fredcalif

diablo234 said:


> Speaking of Texas Interstates.


this is great news for Texas, Diablo.

Texas is still going strong :banana:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

geogregor said:


> I remember there was some large widening of I-15 going on. Is it part of this project?


I think you mean the large-scale widening of I-15 south of Salt Lake City, which is currently going on.


----------



## diablo234

CNGL said:


> Great video, here in Spain there is only one stack, at M-40/A-1/E05 interchange.
> 
> BTW, the President George Bush Turnpike, is a very narrow dirt road in very bad condition? Or is not named after that George Bush, but after his father?


Both the George Bush Turnpike in Dallas and the George Bush Intercontinental Airport in Houston are named after the first Bush, not the worst Bush. :cheers:

And yes the Turnpike is a freeway (or a limited access toll road in this case) for it's entire length.


----------



## diablo234

A video of I-80 going thru the Great Salt Lake Desert in Utah.


----------



## Nexis

FM 2258 said:


> I just looked at a map, Interstate 80 doesn't hit any "big" cities in Pennsylvania. Next "big" city is Youngstown, Ohio from New Jersey.


There are small cities and large towns that run near the highway , but your right there are no large cities hench why there's nothing on the sign other then the Del-Water-Gap.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Whereas "Clinton," population 2,719, appearing on I-78 45 miles away in Newark instead of Allentown, population 118,032, is pure New Jersey parochialism?

As for I-80, they could put Pennsylvania or the Poconos. If a midwestern state were doing the signage, they'd have no problem posting Cleveland. In fact, New York does show up in the Youngstown, Ohio, area on 80 eastbound.

The actual town of Delaware Water Gap, Pa., has a population of under 1,000 (even Stroudsburg, just a little bit farther, is far larger) If they're using the recreational area, in the broader sense of the whole resort region, as the control city, the Poconos are a better-known, broader term. The actual DWG National Recreational Area belongs on brown signs at the exit, not 50 miles away as the sole destination on a transcontinental Interstate.

But my original point to all this was to ask, bemusedly, why "Mahwah" stuck out as strange to Chris, when the DWG and Smith Road are on the same assembly. Not to besmirch the honor of my native state. [rolleyes]


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ Why not use just the directions? After wall, AFAIK, odd-numbered Interstates = North-South, even-numbered Interstates = West-East.

In any case: in Wyoming, they indicate most cities out of state, especially Omaha, Denver and Salt Lake City. I haven't driven too much on I-25 north of Casper when I lived there to remember the signs. SLC and Denver are much more famous than any Wyoming city anyway.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Sure. Since - unlike Europe - we distinguish, say, I-80 WEST from I-80 EAST, the control cities are arguably redundant. But since we do use them, they may as well be as informative as possible. And not actually wrong.* Something between current one-city-per-destination American practice and the French practice of putting so much on the signs that you can't possibly read it all would be ideal. (I like French signage, actually. If I'm looking at pictures of it. At 130 km/h, not so much.)

*Like the point near Elkton, Maryland, where traffic to New York is directed up to I-95 while traffic to Philadelphia is directed to stay on US 40. Whereas in reality, which route you choose - whether you're going to Philadelphia or New York - will be a function of whether you want to avoid the toll at the Maryland/Delaware line.

There are many threads on this stuff at AARoads....


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think you mean the large-scale widening of I-15 south of Salt Lake City, which is currently going on.


Yes, that's what I was thinking about. Would be nice to get some update on that.


----------



## Tom 958

Penn's Woods said:


> As for I-80, they could put Pennsylvania or the Poconos. If a midwestern state were doing the signage, they'd have no problem posting Cleveland. In fact, New York does show up in the Youngstown, Ohio, area on 80 eastbound.


How about Chicago? :banana:

North Carolina is just as bad. The correct control city for I-77 heading south from Charlotte would be Columbia, but some signs say Rock Hill and others Pineville, the town where I-77 and I-485 cross.


----------



## hoosier

diablo234 said:


> Speaking of Texas Interstates.


This makes no sense unless I-69 is actually being constructed. It's just renaming an existing road to an interstate that does not even physically exist.


----------



## diablo234

hoosier said:


> This makes no sense unless I-69 is actually being constructed. It's just renaming an existing road to an interstate that does not even physically exist.


The sections of highway being renamed as I-69 in Texas are already up to interstate standard, hence the new designation. Construction of the other portions are already underway as well.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I've read 230 miles of the future I-69 in Texas is already up to Interstate Highway standards.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The San Francisco - Oakland Bay Bridge turns 75 years today! :cheers:


----------



## Professor L Gee

Tom 958 said:


> North Carolina is just as bad. The correct control city for I-77 heading south from Charlotte would be Columbia, but some signs say Rock Hill and others Pineville, the town where I-77 and I-485 cross.


Columbia shows up as the control city for I-77 from I-85. I've only seen Pineville at the exit for I-485.


----------



## mgk920

ChrisZwolle said:


> I've read 230 miles of the future I-69 in Texas is already up to Interstate Highway standards.


A lot of it is and a section at Corpus Christi was just approved and marked (I posted the news a couple of weeks ago). IIRC, other lengthy interstate-compatible parts include US 77 in the Brownsville area and US 59 thought the Houston area.

Any word on how the route numbering of those branches near the Mexican border will be handled?

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Holland Tunnel turns 84 years today. It was the first fixed link between New Jersey and Manhattan. Some even argue it was America's first freeway in 1927, however although it did have 2x2 lanes, there were no interchanges.


----------



## Tom 958

Professor L Gee said:


> Columbia shows up as the control city for I-77 from I-85. I've only seen Pineville at the exit for I-485.


Rock Hill at I-485 and I-85.


----------



## Professor L Gee

Tom 958 said:


> Rock Hill at I-485 and I-85.


Well, yeah, _there._ :laugh:

I meant that I've never seen Pineville as a control city for I-77... just at the western 85-485 junction.


----------



## hoosier

diablo234 said:


> The sections of highway being renamed as I-69 in Texas are already up to interstate standard, hence the new designation. Construction of the other portions are already underway as well.


Where is it under construction?


----------



## diablo234

hoosier said:


> Where is it under construction?


There were a few sections that were recently completed around Cleveland and Sheppard in East Texas in which a few divided highway segments were converted to full limited access.

I am sure there are many other segments that are under construction or are recently completed as well.

Here is a Youtube clip that explains some of the progress being made so far on the route.






Additional information regarding construction can be found on the *Alliance for I-69 Texas* website.


----------



## Squiggles

*Minneapolis/St. Paul Freeways*

I went to the Badger/Gopher game at the new TCF Bank Stadium in Minneapolis this past weekend, and amidst my travels around the area, I took a few pictures.

I-94 just northwest of the freeway loop around the cities




























Where I-494 and I-694 meet, and I-94 splits from 694 to continue northwesterly



















I-94/694



















Where I-94 meets I-694 north of downtown Minneapolis










I-94 passing near downtown Minneapolis




























Tunnel in downtown Minneapolis










I-94/U.S. 53 interchange in St. Paul


----------



## FM 2258

diablo234 said:


> There were a few sections that were recently completed around Cleveland and Sheppard in East Texas in which a few divided highway segments were converted to full limited access.
> 
> I am sure there are many other segments that are under construction or are recently completed as well.
> 
> Here is a Youtube clip that explains some of the progress being made so far on the route.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Additional information regarding construction can be found on the *Alliance for I-69 Texas* website.


Nice video. I wish it had answered what will happen with the numbering after it splits for U.S. 59. U.S. 77 and U.S. 281.


----------



## Xusein

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Holland Tunnel turns 84 years today. It was the first fixed link between New Jersey and Manhattan. Some even argue it was America's first freeway in 1927, however although it did have 2x2 lanes, there were no interchanges.


The only place where I was stuck in traffic at 3AM.


----------



## Nexis

Xusein said:


> The only place where I was stuck in traffic at 3AM.


LOL , not if you use the back streets....but i'm not going to tell you the secerts streets to avoid all the traffic..


----------



## Suburbanist

Nexis said:


> LOL , not if you use the back streets....but i'm not going to tell you the secerts streets to avoid all the traffic..


Any decent GPS with real-time traffic info can do that.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Xusein said:


> The only place where I was stuck in traffic at 3AM.


I think it's ridiculous that they've marked the Holland Tunnel as part of I-78. It doesn't connect to any other Interstate, even any other freeway, and to get from it to the next segment of 78 you have to pass through several blocks of what amounts to glorified local streets. And I've never heard that there's any prospect of changing this state of affairs.

When I was growing up in the area, 78 ended where the freeway (the New Jersey Turnpike extension) did - the tunnel, the New Jersey approach, and the connector to the Pulaski Skyway were all part of Business US 1-9.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=40.730397,-74.043024&spn=0.003959,0.010943&t=h&z=17&vpsrc=6


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## MrAronymous

Could somebody tell me which state(s) have signs with arrows pointing upwards?


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## Penn's Woods

^^Try the geeks at aaroads.com/forums, if no one here comes up with an answer. I'm no expert.


----------



## mgk920

MrAronymous said:


> Could somebody tell me which state(s) have signs with arrows pointing upwards?


The newest update to the USA's federal Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices ('MUTCD') requires that all new and replacement overhead big green signs use European-style up-pointing arrows, one per lane. Some have appeared this past summer on US 41 here in the Appleton, WI area.

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Upward arrows are most certainly not European "standard". It varies by country, in fact I think most countries have downward arrows.


----------



## Rail Claimore

mgk920 said:


> The newest update to the USA's federal Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices ('MUTCD') requires that all new and replacement overhead big green signs use European-style up-pointing arrows, one per lane. Some have appeared this past summer on US 41 here in the Appleton, WI area.
> 
> Mike


I like the down-arrows a lot better. I believe California started the trend.


----------



## myosh_tino

mgk920 said:


> The newest update to the USA's federal Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices ('MUTCD') requires that all new and replacement overhead big green signs use European-style up-pointing arrows, one per lane. Some have appeared this past summer on US 41 here in the Appleton, WI area.
> 
> Mike


The up-pointing arrow signs replaced the diagrammatic signs that were part of previous editions of the MUTCD. The new signs are only supposed to be used where there is a multi-lane exit including an option lane. One of the biggest gripes I have with this type of signage is the excessive height of the new signs (see this post on the AARoads forums) and here are a few drawings I created for that post...


----------



## Tom 958

Too many EXIT ONLY tabs, lol!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Why use the "exit only" labels at all? Not many other countries (if any) consider this necessary.


----------



## darko06

These "exit only" labels can be very useful in situations where the traffic is near congestion. You simply want to have enough time to choose appropriate lane.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> Why use the "exit only" labels at all? Not many other countries (if any) consider this necessary.


They may be obligatory for lanes that are exiting, even though on this particular sign they're superfluous. Just guessing; haven't memorized the MUTCD. 

I don't like the spacing, though. It looks like six of the same item rather than three.


----------



## myosh_tino

Penn's Woods said:


> They may be obligatory for lanes that are exiting, even though on this particular sign they're superfluous. Just guessing; haven't memorized the MUTCD.
> 
> I don't like the spacing, though. It looks like six of the same item rather than three.


Yeah, I may have gone a little overboard with the "EXIT" and "ONLY" plaques on the I-5/I-805 sign. :tongue3:

The only reason why I created that sign was to illustrate how absolutely huge sign panels can get when using the arrow-per-lane signs. In the case of the I-5/I-805 sign it's dimensions are approximately 86.5 feet wide by 16.5 feet high for a total area of over 1400 square feet! To put things in perspective, the maximum overhead guide sign height in California is 120 inches or 10 feet.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The main purpose of a guide sign is to give information to motorists, not to comply with sign size standards. If it needs to be big to give the right information, than it just has to be.


----------



## Penn's Woods

myosh_tino said:


> Yeah, I may have gone a little overboard with the "EXIT" and "ONLY" plaques on the I-5/I-805 sign. :tongue3:....



Ah, sorry! I thought that was a real sign you were reproducing.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The upward arrows in the U.S. are problematic because they are long. There is no reason for long arrows for all lanes because it reduces the space for destinations above them. The large road number shield also reduce space.

I prefer this:

A2 Utrecht-z-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

or this

IMG_5058 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

Note that the different road marking for the exit lane erases the need for the "exit only" tab.


----------



## PBA32

cool thread. love those american highways.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> The upward arrows in the U.S. are problematic because they are long. There is no reason for long arrows for all lanes because it reduces the space for destinations above them. The large road number shield also reduce space....


I don't like the long upward arrows (haven't seen many, though). 

This, I like: [Sorry, bad link, apparently....]

As for space for destinations, well you know we have issues with destinations.... But don't touch our shields!

I'm sure I've already said that Dutch signage may be the best in Europe.

Off topic, happened on this while searching for the image above - now this is a nice picture: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2371/2483349906_dfc7ac7a12.jpg


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Penn's Woods said:


> But don't touch our shields!


The Interstate shields are definitely most aesthetic road number shields used in the world. But they are very large. They work well on trailblazers and small textual signs, but not so much with road layout guide signs, especially on locations where more control cities than one are needed.



Penn's Woods said:


> This, I like: http://www.aaroads.com/northeast/pennsylvania075/i-076_eb_exit_344_04.jpg


I know of no other country that uses such sign schemes. They are legible with a small number of lanes, but not on roadways with 5 or 6 lanes. 

This type of auxiliary signs are better in providing information about lane configurations at traffic signals or complex freeway situations.

A2-Abcoude-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

(they are on both sides of the roadway)


----------



## Penn's Woods

Wait, you were able to see the image? (of the 76/676 fork) When I clicked on it I kept getting a 403 error....


----------



## keokiracer

^^ I'm getting a 403 error too...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You need to copy the link and open it in another browser tab. AAroads doesn't allow hotlinking.


----------



## keokiracer

PBA32 said:


> cool thread. love those american highways.


You know that the pics from above your post were from the A2 in The Netherlands?


----------



## myosh_tino

ChrisZwolle said:


> The main purpose of a guide sign is to give information to motorists, not to comply with sign size standards. If it needs to be big to give the right information, than it just has to be.


Oh really? Take a look at the two drawings below. The first is the same arrow-per-lane monstrosity I posted earlier. Below it is how it might be signed pre-2009 MUTCD.



















I would argue that the arrow-per-lane sign doesn't convey information any better than the sign below it and would cost more due to the increased sign panel height. In these times of lean budgets, if the two sign styles convey information about the same, then wouldn't it make sense financially to go with a less expensive design?


----------



## Highwaycrazy

Looking at the total length of the arrow, the pointer is actually too thin. It would have been better widened similar to that of the pre-2009 pointer. That way, a driver could easily distinguish it from a distance. It would also be good if they re-designed these signs on the approach to any exit as 1000m, etc. Having a countdown avoids these sudden lane changes that cause so many pile-ups because of bad decisions.


----------



## Paddington

I actually like the one arrow per lane convenience.


----------



## Botev1912

I-5 in Seattle area



















I-405


----------



## ChrisZwolle

myosh_tino said:


> Oh really? Take a look at the two drawings below. The first is the same arrow-per-lane monstrosity I posted earlier. Below it is how it might be signed pre-2009 MUTCD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would argue that the arrow-per-lane sign doesn't convey information any better than the sign below it and would cost more due to the increased sign panel height. In these times of lean budgets, if the two sign styles convey information about the same, then wouldn't it make sense financially to go with a less expensive design?


The bottom sign indicates 8 lanes, while the top sign indicates 7 lanes where the #4 lane branches off in both directions. So the top sign is clearer as to what happens ahead.


----------



## Jschmuck

> The bottom sign indicates 8 lanes, while the top sign indicates 7 lanes where the #4 lane branches off in both directions. So the top sign is clearer as to what happens ahead


Agreed, and also the for the clearer yellow "exit only" writing for the top sign as compared to the yellow "only" (for which 2 lanes??) in the bottom sign. When it comes to sign clarity, cost to me is basically out of the question. To me, top sign is easier to comprehend thus letting drivers to be in the correct lane at the appropriate time, rather than someone not understanding and making a dangerous abrupt lane change at the last second.


----------



## geogregor

Botev1912 said:


>


If I remember correctly the road do Mukilteo will take us to the Boeing factory. Couple of years ago we missed that road and then struggled to find the way to factory navigating some local roads. 
I have to admit I was the one responsible for navigation


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Katy Freeway in Houston turns 50 years today. The first section opened on November 26th, 1961. It was about 4 miles long and ran west of I-610. It was originally a six-lane facility, it looks a bit different today with 16 lanes.


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## Lum Lumi

Hope this hasn't been posted before. I-90/94 in Chicago. :cheers:


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## Penn's Woods

^^Fabulous city, and fabulous road. Well, at least the view of the city from the road is. I was in Chicago last month. Arrived on a Saturday afternoon and made a point of using 90 and 94 (the Skyway, Ryan, Kennedy and Edens) to get through to the northern suburb I was staying in even though there was heavy traffic (and I knew from traffic reports there would be), because I'd never been there before and wanted to see the skyline. Heck, sitting in traffic just meant there was more time to look.

Now, do you have Lake Shore Drive? That's an amazing urban road. Did it end to end, north to south, later in that trip and it immediately became one of my all-time favorite drives.


----------



## Lum Lumi

^^ Here you go. Video by "Freewayjim" :cheers:


----------



## Nima-Farid

I prefer this one. Easier to read.


----------



## rosulje

Lum Lumi said:


> ^^ Here you go. Video by "Freewayjim" :cheers:



Nice :master:


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## ChrisZwolle

Nice photo of the I-495 "Capital Beltway" widening in Virginia. They're widening it from 8 to 12 lanes with 2 HOT lanes each way.


----------



## Nima-Farid

Nice view!


----------



## Paddington

Freewayjim is the Steven Spielberg of expressway videos.


----------



## FM 2258

Nima-Farid said:


> I prefer this one. Easier to read.


I prefer this one too. For me down arrows indicate that you're staying on the current roadway. Arrows pointing up mean that you're leaving the current roadway.


----------



## Nexis

around the Battery Tunnel portal...


DSC08997 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC09000 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC09001 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC09004 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC09066 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## diablo234




----------



## ChrisZwolle

The first signs went up on I-69 in Robstown, Texas.


----------



## FM 2258

^^

Cool...thanks for posting this.


----------



## Rail Claimore

ChrisZwolle said:


> The first signs went up on I-69 in Robstown, Texas.


Surprised Houston isn't the control city when it is for US59 North from Laredo.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Does anyone know why Interstate 185 in South Carolina was constructed? It doesn't appear to be serving a whole lot and not being a useful bypass of I-85 as well. Besides that, how can this be an Interstate Highway, it's a toll road, opened in 2001. I thought only pre-1956 toll roads could get Interstate status. The route would've made more sense if it was mirrored north of I-85.


----------



## ADCS

Rail Claimore said:


> Surprised Houston isn't the control city when it is for US59 North from Laredo.


Texas doesn't do control cities that way. Victoria's a fairly large regional hub - metro area over 100,000 - so it makes sense under their policy for it to be listed. Houston is also around 215 miles from Corpus Christi, and that is a bit far for a control city (Dallas and Houston are listed on I-45 because there are no mid-sized cities in between).

Also, Sinton is where one would turn off to go to Port Aransas, and Victoria to go to Matagorda Bay, which are both sizable tourist destinations.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Does anyone know why Interstate 185 in South Carolina was constructed? It doesn't appear to be serving a whole lot and not being a useful bypass of I-85 as well. Besides that, how can this be an Interstate Highway, it's a toll road, opened in 2001. I thought only pre-1956 toll roads could get Interstate status. The route would've made more sense if it was mirrored north of I-85.


I-85 roughly parallels the fall line in South Carolina, where the coastal plains transition into the Appalachian Piedmont. So, for starters, it would be much cheaper to build a bypass through the flatter land. It also offers a useful bypass for those coming from the central and coastal parts of the state heading toward Clemson, where there is a large university.

Furthermore, the rules against toll Interstates have slackened considerably, particularly in the last 20 years. Now, toll routes can have the Interstate designation, but generally must conduct their own maintenance, with little federal support.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another interesting feature, Interstate 4 in Tampa.

It features a wide median, wider than a regular space reservation for expansion. Were there once plans for some sort of local-express setup or reversible lanes? There's enough space for another 8 lanes. It appears that this space has been created rather recently, in the mid-2000's. Maybe a rail project in the median?

This is current I-4:









This is previous I-4 (before I-275 was routed there)


----------



## Interstate275Fla

ChrisZwolle said:


> Another interesting feature, Interstate 4 in Tampa.
> 
> It features a wide median, wider than a regular space reservation for expansion. Were there once plans for some sort of local-express setup or reversible lanes? There's enough space for another 8 lanes. It appears that this space has been created rather recently, in the mid-2000's. Maybe a rail project in the median?
> 
> This is current I-4:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is previous I-4 (before I-275 was routed there)


Chris, I can tell you a lot about Interstate 4 as well as Interstate 275 in the Tampa area.

On the top image of Interstate 4, this was taken after the major reconstruction project from just east of Interstate 275 to 50th Street (US 41) was completed in December 2007. As you can see, Interstate 4 underwent a complete transformation from the original 4 lanes (along with a short 6 lane segment from Interstate 275 to 21st/22nd Street (FL 585)) to 8 lanes.

The large median in Interstate 4 was supposed to be reserved for the high speed rail project which was supposed to link Tampa with Orlando and Miami, the Tampa to Orlando link utilizing the center of Interstate 4. We received federal money to build this high speed rail link; unfortunately, our Florida Governor, Rick Scott, rejected the federal funds for high speed rail in the state of Florida. This has caused quite a major uproar here in Florida as construction of the high speed rail would have brought at least 25,000 jobs, but I will not get into more detail here so that I do not go off topic.

However, the large median in Interstate 4 is being used for another project located east of the 21st/22nd Street exit, and that is the connector highway from Interstate 4 to the Lee Roy Selmon Crosstown Expressway (FL Toll 618). Slated for completion in Summer of 2013, the Interstate 4 to Crosstown connector will make it a lot easier for trucks to access the Port of Tampa without having to drive onto narrow 21st/22nd Streets, not to mention that this area is part of the Ybor City Historic District.

On the bottom image of Interstate 4, this was taken when construction was underway to transform Interstate 4 from its original 4 lanes built in the early 1960's to the 8 lanes we have today. Back when Interstate 4 was originally built, the highway was supposed to terminate in St. Petersburg (which used the newly built original Howard Frankland Bridge) I believe somewhere in South Pasadena before the bridge to St. Pete Beach. A few years later, the Florida DOT decided to extend Interstate 75 south through the Tampa/St. Petersburg area to Miami, following the Florida west coast and turning east on Alligator Alley in Naples. Interstate 4 was truncated to where it now ends at today's Interstate 275 in downtown Tampa (Exit 45B).

Interstate 4 features a wide median from just east of its western terminus all the way to Poinciana Drive right on the Polk-Osceola county line outside of Kissimmee. You can also see another view of how wide the Interstate 4 median is at the US 27 exit (Exit 55) just outside Orlando. Exactly how the wide median is going to be used is unknown now that the proposed high speed rail is not being built.


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## ChrisZwolle

Thanks  You can see the connector corridor parallel to 31st Street on Google Earth imagery. 

You know, it always surprised me that no north-south freeway was built in western Pinellas County, though US 19 is partially freeway-like. It's a giant urban area which has to rely on urban arterials.


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## ChrisZwolle

The new Crosstown I-40 in Oklahoma City is almost completed. It will open before Christmas as a temporary six-lane setup while the other direction is being completed. The final situation will feature 10 lanes.










sign error: I-44 should be I-40.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

ChrisZwolle said:


> Thanks  You can see the connector corridor parallel to 31st Street on Google Earth imagery.
> 
> You know, it always surprised me that no north-south freeway was built in western Pinellas County, though US 19 is partially freeway-like. It's a giant urban area which has to rely on urban arterials.


Thats why it can take 30 mins to drive 10 miles/16km sometimes. I hate it because there are some traffic lights which are 5 minutes long. On another note I could probably post US19 updates since I use that road everyday.


----------



## Ders453

Mongolian Strip


----------



## Interstate275Fla

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Thats why it can take 30 mins to drive 10 miles/16km sometimes. I hate it because there are some traffic lights which are 5 minutes long. On another note I could probably post US19 updates since I use that road everyday.


There was a toll highway proposed in the early 1970's - the Pinellas Expressway - that would have followed basically the route of what is today's Pinellas Trail. Unfortunately, strong opposition put the road on the shelf.

The only reminder of what was going to be the Pinellas Expressway is the 31 St S exit (Exit 20) from Interstate 275, which has an exit to a toll road look but in reality it isn't.

And speaking of the conversion of US 19 to a limited access highway from 49 St N in Pinellas Park to FL 580 in Clearwater, I see the potential of a possible Interstate 875 which would connect the US 19 limited access segment, then become an east-west highway using a converted Gandy Blvd. and Gandy Bridge over into Tampa, finally connecting into the Lee Roy Selmon Crosstown Expressway (FL Toll 618). As for the tolled section, I understand that federal guidelines do not allow for Interstate numbers to be assigned to toll roads unless grandfathered as is the case of both the Sunshine Skyway (Interstate 275) and Alligator Alley (Interstate 75).

Presently a section of US 19 is being converted into a limited access highway from north of Whitney Road to FL 60 in order to make a continuous traffic signal free US 19 from 49 St N to FL 580. From what I understand work is progressing at a slow pace due to major water main relocation work as there are major water mains that serve St. Petersburg and the surrounding communities that depend on St. Petersburg for water service.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Interstate275Fla said:


> There was a toll highway proposed in the early 1970's - the Pinellas Expressway - that would have followed basically the route of what is today's Pinellas Trail. Unfortunately, strong opposition put the road on the shelf.
> 
> The only reminder of what was going to be the Pinellas Expressway is the 31 St S exit (Exit 20) from Interstate 275, which has an exit to a toll road look but in reality it isn't.
> 
> And speaking of the conversion of US 19 to a limited access highway from 49 St N in Pinellas Park to FL 580 in Clearwater, I see the potential of a possible Interstate 875 which would connect the US 19 limited access segment, then become an east-west highway using a converted Gandy Blvd. and Gandy Bridge over into Tampa, finally connecting into the Lee Roy Selmon Crosstown Expressway (FL Toll 618). As for the tolled section, I understand that federal guidelines do not allow for Interstate numbers to be assigned to toll roads unless grandfathered as is the case of both the Sunshine Skyway (Interstate 275) and Alligator Alley (Interstate 75).
> 
> Presently a section of US 19 is being converted into a limited access highway from north of Whitney Road to FL 60 in order to make a continuous traffic signal free US 19 from 49 St N to FL 580. From what I understand work is progressing at a slow pace due to major water main relocation work as there are major water mains that serve St. Petersburg and the surrounding communities that depend on St. Petersburg for water service.


Yeah Pinellas has many cancelled freeways and expressways, very short sighted of those residents. I've lived in north pinellas ever since the Drew St overpass was built so I've watched the progression from there, each phase completed makes life so much better. Currently the Whitney Road to FL 60 is going slow but as you said a lot of work needs to be done. Another slow going project is at Enterprise Rd and US19, they will eliminate that light, add a lane northbound and build a concrete barrier in the median. Recently they've just opened the service road by the car dealerships. When those two projects are done Pinellas will have a north/south freeway as it was planned many years ago.


----------



## desertpunk

*I-35 North of Austin TX*


I-35 Northbound Through South Austin by Robin Rowell, on Flickr


----------



## Lum Lumi

desertpunk said:


> *I-35 North of Austin TX*
> 
> I-35 Northbound Through South Austin by Robin Rowell, on Flickr


Wow, great photo. :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Austin is not the small, rather unknown state capital it once was anymore... I've read it's actually a pleasant city, not as "concrete" and humid as Houston and not as flat and boring as Dallas.


----------



## Lum Lumi

It's also the liberal heartland of Texas (not talking about politics, although that too).


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Wow thats a great angle of Austin.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

To return to the I-185 in Greenville, SC discussion earlier this page.

It looks like the toll road is not really a success. Only 10,000 - 15,000 vehicles use it on a daily basis and apparently the toll road operator defaulted in 2010.

http://www.southernconnector.com/Zweekly_stat.htm

It would make more sense if it catered to I-85 traffic better, especially traffic from northern Georgia towards I-385. The toll rates are also relatively high, at $ 2.50 for the 13 mile route for passenger cars. 

It's very hard to accurately estimate the toll rate that generates maximum revenue. If you continue to increase tolls, revenue will actually go down because traffic goes down too. 

I think I-185 could only be viable as a toll road if there was significant suburban development in that area, which there is not.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

GDOT has announced that the I-75 toll lanes in northwest Atlanta will be scrapped. No details are known, the press release was only two sentences. The toll lanes were announced with a lot of fanfare just a few months ago. The $ 1.1 billion project would have added 2 toll lanes in each direction. Other than the I-85, these were not supposed to be HOT lanes. This would have widened I-75 from 10 - 15 lanes to 14 - 19 lanes.


----------



## Maxi_Moscow

I-15 from SoCal to NV.


vegasroad3 by Maxi_Photo, on Flickr

Rest area.


vegasroad2 by Maxi_Photo, on Flickr


----------



## diablo234

ChrisZwolle said:


> GDOT has announced that the I-75 toll lanes in northwest Atlanta will be scrapped. No details are known, the press release was only two sentences. The toll lanes were announced with a lot of fanfare just a few months ago. The $ 1.1 billion project would have added 2 toll lanes in each direction. Other than the I-85, these were not supposed to be HOT lanes. This would have widened I-75 from 10 - 15 lanes to 14 - 19 lanes.


No loss here, those "toll lanes" would be an enormous waste of money anyways.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Overall Georgia is not a fan of tollroads, not surprised.


----------



## Tom 958

ChrisZwolle said:


> To return to the I-185 in Greenville, SC discussion earlier this page.
> 
> It looks like the toll road is not really a success. Only 10,000 - 15,000 vehicles use it on a daily basis and apparently the toll road operator defaulted in 2010.


I suspect that there are two reasons why I-185 was built:

1. South Carolina is a very right wing state, and apparently quite a few people there believe (or pretend to believe) that "markets" can perform miracles.

2. The real estate developers who wanted the project assumed that once the operator defaulted, the state would give up on collecting tolls and they'd get the free, controlled access road that they needed to open their land to development. 

At this point, there's surely enough "I _said_ I-185 would be a boondoggle!" sentiment to keep tolls from being lifted even though it'd make sense to do so. The political price for admitting to such an obvious mistake would be too high, so they pretend that no mistake was made.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Overall Georgia is not a fan of tollroads, not surprised.


I'm not a fan of them either, but with tax income as low as it is (hardly enough to do regular maintenance) I don't really see another option. So now the toll people make their move to cash in on the traffic problems.


----------



## Interstate275Fla

ChrisZwolle said:


> I'm not a fan of them either, but with tax income as low as it is (hardly enough to do regular maintenance) I don't really see another option. So now the toll people make their move to cash in on the traffic problems.


Being from the Tampa/St. Petersburg metropolitan area where toll roads and bridges are our way of life, we're used to paying tolls rather than see our property taxes or our sales taxes go up. However, in the Jacksonville, FL metropolitan area their toll road and bridge system was mired in controversy.

Jacksonville has four major bridges, all that used to be tolled. The tolled bridges were the Mathews Bridge, the Hart Bridge, the Trout River Bridge carrying Interstate 95 and the Fuller Warren Bridge which carries Interstate 95 over the St. Johns River (just south of Interstate 10). The Fuller Warren Bridge was one of the many drawbridges that were on the interstate highway system.

Tolls are indeed the way to help keep taxes (such as property taxes or sales taxes) down. However, in the Jacksonville area their toll facilities from what I understand were rampant with fraud and theft; it got so out of control that in a November 1988 referendum the voters of the Jacksonville area approved a half-cent sales tax increase to remove the tolls.

However, tolls in the Jacksonville area are making a comeback somehow: Construction of the new First Coast Outer Beltway which will provide a tolled alternative to Interstate 295 between Interstates 10 and 95. The new toll highway will be located outside the Interstate 295 loop.

Unfortunately, with a shattered economy and property tax revenues dwindling due to lowered house values (not to mention homestead exemption), and strong voter opposition to any increase in sales taxes today, tolls are indeed the way to go. Besides, toll collection is cheaper thanks to technological advances such as SunPass in Florida and the recent conversion of several Florida toll roads from manual toll collection to all electronic toll collection such as the recent conversion of the Selmon Crosstown Expressway (FL Toll 618) in Tampa from a manual system to fully all electronic toll collection.

Link to an article on Jacksonville's First Coast Outer Beltway over at Toll Roads News.


----------



## Paddington

Florida's Sun Pass thing is sweet. You can zoom through it at 70 mph. :laugh:


----------



## Billpa

*Blue Route (I-476)*

Pennsylvania's Blue Route turns 20 years old today...

Opened 20 years ago today, on Dec. 19, 1991, the Blue Route completed a high-speed highway network surrounding a Philadelphia that never had a real beltway.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20111219_20_years_later__they_love_their_Blue_Route.html








[/url] blue-1 by williammead5, on Flickr[/IMG]


----------



## Jeskaj

Some roadvideos while I stayed in the US.

http://youtu.be/Z9p93E-iWOQ

http://youtu.be/BuV2Tf5BQ_w

http://youtu.be/-LFBMPSL-H0


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Philadelphia probably has the most undersized freeway / expressway network of any major U.S. city, though Las Vegas is pretty bad too.

Talking of highway history, I can't imagine what traffic was in Chicago before 1950. Their first expressway opened in 1950. Chicago had 3.6 million inhabitants at that time.


----------



## Billpa

ChrisZwolle said:


> Philadelphia probably has the most undersized freeway / expressway network of any major U.S. city, though Las Vegas is pretty bad too.


95 isn't too bad but a good chunk of 76 and 476 are only four lane highways. The Pennsylvania Turnpike was recently expanded to six for several miles near Philadelphia but remains 2x2 along much of its route. And as you saw in this article I posted many of the suburbs had no motorway at all up until 20 years ago.


----------



## FM 2258

I love that the Austin area and Texas in general are getting higher speed limits. I've never seen speed limits at 70+ so far into an urban area before. The tollway 45 just north of Austin now has a speed limit of 75, a speed limit I've only expected to see out in the middle of nowhere. 


*Speed limits going up on area highways
*
Full article: 
http://www.statesman.com/news/local/speed-limits-going-up-on-area-highways-2040146.html



> Signs with an unfamiliar message "speed limit 75" have been showing up on major Central Texas roads this fall, the result of a change in state law earlier in the year. And limits on Interstate 35 through Austin, now 55 mph to 70 mph, likewise will be inching up 5 to 10 mph in many sections during the next week or so.
> 
> The local changes are probably a harbinger of higher speed limits statewide. Texas Department of Transportation officials have embarked on a $7.5 million program of highway traffic studies around the state on roads with 70-mph limits, a required step for raising the limits to 75 mph. Between now and January 2013, TxDOT plans to conduct 3,600 such studies to identify the "85th percentile" speed, meaning that for every 100 passing cars, 85 are at or below that speed.
> 
> The new limit is then set near that speed on a number ending in 0 or 5, and not higher than 75.
> 
> Changing the signs on up to 50,000 miles of highway will carry a cost that will be contingent on the number of speed limit changes. The new law also eliminated lower night and truck-only speed limits.
> 
> The official analysis last spring of House Bill 1353, which allowed the higher speed limits when it became law, showed "no significant fiscal implication" for state government by raising the legal speeds.
> 
> It remains unclear just what the higher numbers on those black-and-white signs will mean to driver behavior and safety.
> 
> TxDOT officials say that, by and large, actual highway speeds won't increase because the overwhelming majority of drivers tend to stay at a prudent pace based on the design of the road and the topography surrounding it. In other words, if 85 percent of motorists are currently driving 75 mph or slower on a road posted for 70, increasing the legal maximum to 75 mph won't mean that most drivers will reflexively begin going 80. ...


Map:


----------



## Paddington

Detroit has a lot of 70 mph expressways.


----------



## soup or man

As someone who lives in LA, I always thought The OC had nice freeways.


----------



## FM 2258

Paddington said:


> Detroit has a lot of 70 mph expressways.


That's good. It seems like a lot of cities in the U.S. put ridiculously low speed limits on freeways in urban areas.



soup or man said:


> As someone who lives in LA, I always thought The OC had nice freeways.


Nice video..


----------



## Classof2010

Construction of the I-40 Crosstown replacement in Oklahoma City continues. Partial traffic flow is to be transferred onto the new I-40, located several blocks south of the current I-40 bridge structure, in January 2012. Complete transfer should occur 4-6 weeks thereafter. 

Courtesy of SEEiYah on OKCTALK.


----------



## desertpunk

^^
Awesome shots! :cheers:


----------



## desertpunk

*LA 110 at the 105*


[email protected] by The Chris Valle, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-70 New Mississippi River Bridge*

Photos from December 2011:


2011-12-01-mrbtower-07 by missriverbridge_photos, on Flickr


2011-12-01-mrbtower-90 by missriverbridge_photos, on Flickr


2011-12-01-mrbtower-45 by missriverbridge_photos, on Flickr


----------



## Nima-Farid

FM 2258 said:


> I love that the Austin area and Texas in general are getting higher speed limits. I've never seen speed limits at 70+ so far into an urban area before. The tollway 45 just north of Austin now has a speed limit of 75, a speed limit I've only expected to see out in the middle of nowhere.
> 
> 
> *Speed limits going up on area highways
> *
> Full article:
> http://www.statesman.com/news/local/speed-limits-going-up-on-area-highways-2040146.html
> 
> 
> 
> Map:


So it will be
A: 120 km/h
B: 120 km/h
C: 110 km/h
D: 110 km/h
E: 95 km/h
F: 95 km/h
G: 95 km/h
H: 110 km/h



It is not too much. in europe almost every motorway has a speed limit of 130 km/h
In Iran 95 km/h is the speed limit for undevided non-motorway rural roads! :nuts:
:bash: Why don't they increase the limit to a more logical value??


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Nima-Farid said:


> It is not too much. in europe almost every motorway has a speed limit of 130 km/h
> In Iran 95 km/h is the speed limit for undevided non-motorway rural roads! :nuts:
> :bash: Why don't they increase the limit to a more logical value??


Can you read other posts more carefully? The main point was that these limits were raised in *urban* areas. Can you name many urban motorways where the speed limit is 120 km/h?


----------



## Bothar.G

America is unique whereby a left shoulder lane is standard on any new Highway, is this correct? If so, it's good planning. Here in Europe, many new Highways rarely have a left shoulder lane (except the 'Superhighways').


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

FM 2258 said:


> That's good. It seems like a lot of cities in the U.S. put ridiculously low speed limits on freeways in urban areas.


Luckily they are pretty much ignored by most people, I always have to laugh when driving through Atlanta with a 55mph speed limit everybody is doing 80+mph.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interesting feature in Texas, the I-44 splits around two blocks in Wichita Falls for a while.


----------



## ManRegio

ChrisZwolle said:


> Interesting feature in Texas, the I-44 splits around two blocks in Wichita Falls for a while.


I guess that is pretty odd for American, specially Texan standards. What would be the reason for not expropriating that block?


----------



## mgk920

ManRegio said:


> I guess that is pretty odd for American, specially Texan standards. What would be the reason for not expropriating that block?


$$$$$

Also, the freeway segments on either end were built first, several decades before the part that is elevated over the streets to connect them together. I-44 originally ended at the end of the upper-left freeway, I'm not sure if it was extended to include the elevated-over-the-streets part when that opened. It is also marked as US 277, 281 and 287.

Mike


----------



## geogregor

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Luckily they are pretty much ignored by most people, I always have to laugh when driving through Atlanta with a 55mph speed limit everybody is doing 80+mph.


It's the same in LA. 
On my first visist there I quickly learned that driving less than 80mph you actually cause dangerous situations as everyone is going faster, regardless of the posted limits.


----------



## Penn's Woods

mgk920 said:


> $$$$$
> 
> Also, the freeway segments on either end were built first, several decades before the part that is elevated over the streets to connect them together. I-44 originally ended at the end of the upper-left freeway, I'm not sure if it was extended to include the elevated-over-the-streets part when that opened. It is also marked as US 277, 281 and 287.
> 
> Mike


Which is what I would have guessed. And that the streets would have been one-way, so that you've got the southbound roadway of the freeway leading into a southbound street, and a northbound street leading into the northbound roadway of the freeway. You'll see that sort of pattern all over the place (Charleston, S.C.; Lubbock, Tex....)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Amarillo has such a thing too. I-27 forks into/from 4 streets on the south side of downtown and US 287 does it on the north side. So through traffic will travel through downtown, but there isn't much north of Amarillo, so I guess it's not a big problem. 

Amarillo also has a 40 mile, two-lane loop.


----------



## Ders453




----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> Amarillo has such a thing too. I-27 forks into/from 4 streets on the south side of downtown and US 287 does it on the north side. So through traffic will travel through downtown, but there isn't much north of Amarillo, so I guess it's not a big problem.
> 
> Amarillo also has a 40 mile, two-lane loop.


I think I was thinking Amarillo when I said Lubbock. :bash: I knew one of them had the channeling-I-27-into-four-streets thing.


----------



## LtBk

I always believe that we should have variable speed limits in urban freeways. There is no reason to do 55 mph on a nearly empty 2x3 freeway at 2am.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

LtBk said:


> I always believe that we should have variable speed limits in urban freeways. There is no reason to do 55 mph on a nearly empty 2x3 freeway at 2am.


I would say variable speed limits on all roads, but municipalities have to make their money somehow (speeding tickets).


----------



## siamu maharaj

I think the beltway around Indianapolis has it. The speed limits were electronic signs so I am guessing it's because the limit changes.


----------



## _Mort_

Nima-Farid said:


> So it will be
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is not too much. in europe almost every motorway has a speed limit of 130 km/h


In Poland there is 140 km/h (87 mph) on motorways.


----------



## urbanlover

FM 2258 said:


> I love that the Austin area and Texas in general are getting higher speed limits. I've never seen speed limits at 70+ so far into an urban area before. The tollway 45 just north of Austin now has a speed limit of 75, a speed limit I've only expected to see out in the middle of nowhere.


Come to Michigan, I-75 and I-96 are 70 well within Detroit city limits. I-94 is posted outside of limits. All of I-696 is posted at 70.


----------



## dima4444




----------



## diablo234




----------



## Barciur

_Mort_ said:


> In Poland there is 140 km/h (87 mph) on motorways.


Yes but keep in mind there is no official disctinction between a motorway/highway and an expressway like in Poland. Speed limits are often the same on these, 55 to 65.


----------



## gigilamoroso

You guys really make me laugh ; when you advocate variable speed limits you should translate : you actually mean "variable speed limits provided the lowest one is at least 85 mph".

Low speed limits (55 mph for instance) make perfectly sense in urban freeways with lots of lanes and entrances/exists and heavy traffic. The main issue there is capacity, at least during peak hours, and you certainly don't reach the highest capacity and flowing with morrons doing 85+ mph in dense traffic, waving, tailgating, changing lanes .../...


----------



## siamu maharaj

gigilamoroso said:


> You guys really make me laugh ; when you advocate variable speed limits you should translate : you actually mean "variable speed limits provided the lowest one is at least 85 mph".
> 
> Low speed limits (55 mph for instance) make perfectly sense in urban freeways with lots of lanes and entrances/exists and heavy traffic. The main issue there is capacity, at least during peak hours, and you certainly don't reach the highest capacity and flowing with morrons doing 85+ mph in dense traffic, waving, tailgating, changing lanes .../...


But with so much traffic the traffic slows down anyway, so the speed limit becomes pretty academic.


----------



## otter2020

EB I-494 and US-169 Interchange by Otter 2020, on Flickr
Eden Prairie, Minnesota. Finally updating one of the worst intersection in the Minneapolis metro area during rush hour. Eliminating stop light on US-169 and creating flyovers to ease up traffic merging onto I-494.


----------



## otter2020

I-35W in Minneapolis was reconstructed to eliminate traffic congestion at the MN-62 (Crosstown Highway) intersection and expanded to add HOV lanes to and from downtown Minneapolis to southern suburb of Burnsville, south of the Minnesota River.

HOV Lane enterance on NB I-35W at HWY 62, Richfield, MN by Otter 2020, on Flickr

I-35W and HWY 62 (Crosstown) Interchange by Otter 2020, on Flickr

NB I-35W to Downtown Minneapolis, MN by Otter 2020, on Flickr


----------



## otter2020

E 46th Street Bus Stop Exit on I-35W by Otter 2020, on Flickr

Bus Stop at E 46th Street and I-35W by Otter 2020, on Flickr

HOV lane NB I-35W by Otter 2020, on Flickr


----------



## otter2020

Photos taken Christmas Day, 2011. Excellent driving weather, clear sky and 40 degrees!

NB I-35W Corridor, Minneapolis by Otter 2020, on Flickr

Downtown Minneapolis from NB I-35W by Otter 2020, on Flickr

Minneapolis Skyline from NB I-35W Downtown Exit by Otter 2020, on Flickr


----------



## otter2020

I-394 Express Lanes heading west out of downtown Minneapolis to I-494.

I-394 Express Lanes Enterance by Otter 2020, on Flickr

I-394 Express Lanes, Minneapolis MN by Otter 2020, on Flickr

I-394 Golden Valley, MN by Otter 2020, on Flickr


----------



## CNGL

From the other American roads thread:


ChrisZwolle said:


> I've also read they want to introduce Interstate 44 on a corridor from Raleigh to Virginia Beach.


There is already an I-44 from Wichita Falls to St. Louis. If this goes ahead, I would number it as I-54 or I-56. More likely I-54. AFAIK there are no even numbered interstate highways starting with a 5.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are already various instances of identical Interstate numbers far apart;

* I-76: Denver - Julesburg + Akron - Philadelphia
* I-84: Portland - Echo + Scranton - Sturbridge
* I-86: Declo - Pocatello + Erie - Harriman
* I-88: Moline - Chicago + Binghamton - Schenectady

So it is not necessarily a problem.

Meanwhile, I-54 or I-56 is possible, considering there are no US 54 or US 56 in either Virginia or North Carolina.


----------



## Professor L Gee

ChrisZwolle said:


> Meanwhile, I-54 or I-56 is possible, considering there are no US 54 or US 56 in either Virginia or North Carolina.


Even still, you have I-74 and US 74 now in NC... and better yet, they're co-signed. 

But yeah... for a Raleigh-to-Hampton Roads corridor, the numbers 42, 46, 54, 56, and 62 are all available for use if you want to stick to the grid.

The route could also be given a N-S designation... but there are no numbers available that would fit the grid. Thank you, Bud Shuster.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-101


----------



## Professor L Gee

I read that on AARoads. I think they would reserve that for a corridor along the Delmarva Peninsula.

No reason that such a route couldn't go from Wilmington, DE to Raleigh. So I like it.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Eek!

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/traffic/Interstate_80_Pileup_010312


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Traffic mayhem begins in Dallas, where the HOV lanes on I-635 are closed for the massive New LBJ project. This means 240 000 - 265 000 vehicles will have to squeeze on just 8 lanes, the perfect recipe for a gridlock.


----------



## Nexis

Whos paying for that Project ?, hopefully its just the Texans.....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It is paid for by tolls and partially by state gas tax.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Nexis said:


> Whos paying for that Project ?, hopefully its just the Texans.....


Texas in general pays for most of their own road projects in the past years or at least much more than other states.


----------



## desertpunk

Speaking of the I-635 in Dallas...


Light Trails by sixfive190, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The first video of the new I-40 in Oklahoma City. The bridges look really cool. Great job.


----------



## ScraperDude

^^^^ Wow! finally open! Can't wait for the Crosstown to be demolished.


----------



## Xusein

Looks like a job well done. I'm sure it's a nice ride outside rush hour.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's probably also nice during rush hour. Oklahoma City has almost no congestion, and this new 10 lane freeway is future-proof for a long time.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Ever wondered what those plastic poles between toll and free lanes cost?



> About $17,400 a week is spent to replace those flimsy plastic poles that separate the express lanes from the regular lanes.
> 
> At a cost of $29 a pole, about 600 are replaced every week.
> 
> Officials say the costs are small compared to what it would've cost to build a new road or widen I-95.


http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/20...6_1_northbound-lanes-free-lanes-lanes-opening


----------



## Professor L Gee

I bet there's all kinds of weaving between those flimsy poles, especially from what I hear about drivers in Miami...


----------



## Xusein

When it comes to big highway projects, Texas tends to deliver.


----------



## VoltAmps

I want them to deliver on this


----------



## geogregor

^^
Is there any time-line for the project?


----------



## Nexis

I-278 East - Gowanus Expressway


DSCN1391 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN1393 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN1394 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN1395 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN1396 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN1397 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN1398 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSCN1399 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

FM 2258 said:


> I remember seeing some ridiculously low speed limits in the NYC area. In theory they might make sense but in reality once a road is in a freeway configuration it's easy to do 70.


Yeah I mean in congestion you probably won't even be doing the speed limit, but if traffic is moving forget the speed limit.



Xusein said:


> I wouldn't do 70 in NYC. There is usually just too much stuff to pay attention to.
> 
> On the other hand, I regularly go near 80 here on Hartford highways, haven't been caught yet. :crazy:


Connecticut is tough with speeding since of the Northeast states I've been to they had the most cops pulling people over. I went faster in New York because of that lol.


----------



## Paddington

I-94 through Detroit is such an outdated POS. The ramps are tiny, very hard to see the huge trucks coming down the right lane as you try to merge. The shoulders are tiny; if someone pulls over, one lane of traffic is out of commission. The left side exit ramps lead to a huge amount of weaving downtown.

The only redeeming aspect is far fewer people live SW of Detroit than in any other direction, so it's relatively uncontested in the mornings. It's in much need of a complete overhaul.


----------



## Xusein

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Connecticut is tough with speeding since of the Northeast states I've been to they had the most cops pulling people over. I went faster in New York because of that lol.


Mass is worse I think. Try driving on the Mass Pike at night where the cops are hiding in the bushes! :runaway:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Dallas - Fort Worth Turnpike in 1963. It's I-30 nowadays.


Part of inside by jczart, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Does Houston have the busiest freeway in the United States?

Usually the I-405 in Long Beach, California is quoted as having the highest traffic volume in the nation at 390,000 vehicles per day.

But I always got the feeling that the brief I-10/I-45 concurrency north of downtown Houston has a higher traffic volume. First of all, it is much wider at 19 lanes compared to the 14 lanes at the 405. A 19 lane setup at a typical 2200 vehicles/hour multiplied by 12 hours for an urban freeway gives an AADT of 500,000. 

While I think half a million vehicles is a bit too high, anywhere between 400,000 and 450,000 vehicles per day may be possible.

Here are the traffic counts of the adjoining freeway sections. If you add them up and divide them by two you get 426,500 vehicles per day. Doesn't sound implausible. There are no traffic counts available for this specific section unfortunately. The value of 426,500 vehicles is just a few thousand vehicles short of the highway 401 volume in Toronto, which is still considered as the busiest freeway in the world. But Houston may just beat that, solidifying its title as the freeway capital of the world.










It is debatable if this particular freeway section counts as a multiplex or just an interchange. However, traffic is driving side by side here.


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ I think it is just a giant interchange.


----------



## keokiracer

^^ You can easily compare this to interchange Ridderkerk (Netherlands): same sort of thing: would you count that as one interchange?

Link


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Xusein said:


> Mass is worse I think. Try driving on the Mass Pike at night where the cops are hiding in the bushes! :runaway:


Thats pretty common in most places though, I haven't driven the Mass Pike at night so I don't really know lol.


----------



## Suburbanist

keokiracer said:


> ^^ You can easily compare this to interchange Ridderkerk (Netherlands): same sort of thing: would you count that as one interchange?
> 
> Link


Yes, both are single interchanges. Complex ones, but you can easily see they are part of a same interchange system by its desing etc.


----------



## rosulje

VoltAmps said:


> I want them to deliver on this
> 
> lrfv-9zm7zY&


:bow:


----------



## Botev1912

Does anyone know why they keep putting the raised/reflective markings (road dots) on freeways and city roads? Or why do they last 1 month before they start breaking. They break very easily and after a couple months, the road barely has any markings. But I noticed something. I saw a pictures from a New Zealand freeway, and the same markings are intact. Is it just a new road, or their markings are of better quality?

These pictures are from the New Zealand highway thread




















And this is a US road with the same markings. Other roads are even worse but I don't have a picture


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's a matter of maintenance I suppose. The Auckland example is a motorway which first opened in the 1950's. Road markings don't last forever.


----------



## Botev1912

They repaint the paint markings every year, they put new reflective markings every couple of years, but the thing is the reflective markings don't hold up and last only a couple months. But instead of getting rid of them, they keep using them which is the weird thing.


----------



## HAWC1506

Botev1912 said:


> They repaint the paint markings every year, they put new reflective markings every couple of years, but the thing is the reflective markings don't hold up and last only a couple months. But instead of getting rid of them, they keep using them which is the weird thing.


Especially in Seattle. If you look closely on I-5, there are 9 or 10 reflective markings (most broken) sitting really close to each other. That is in addition to the raised non-reflective pavement markings. I'll try to find a picture.


----------



## Botev1912

No markings at all


----------



## Xusein

I've never seen those here (Hartford, CT). They definitely don't look long term.


----------



## Botev1912

myosh_tino said:


> If you're including raised reflectors, then I strongly disagree with you because painted lines have a tendency to "disappear" when it's raining. At least RPMs provide an audible cue to drivers when they drift out of their lane.


They would be fine if they looked like the markings in New Zealand. But when most of them break fast, they make the road look terrible. What's the point of wasting money for something that doesn't last as expected but it is still used?


----------



## HAWC1506

myosh_tino said:


> If you're including raised reflectors, then I strongly disagree with you because painted lines have a tendency to "disappear" when it's raining. At least RPMs provide an audible cue to drivers when they drift out of their lane.


Yeah raised reflectors should be used. However, it also depends on the type of pavement. If the pavement is open-graded porous asphalt, the water seeps through and there won't be standing water on the roadway. In those situations, a reflective stripe would be sufficient.

But in areas where non-porous asphalt and concrete is used, the lines would disappear, so raised reflectors should be used.

Also, in many countries, painted lines are actually embedded in the pavement. A groove is made and then the lines are installed into the groove, which makes them last longer.

RPMs in Seattle cost anywhere between 50 cents each to a few dollars, depending on the contract and the amount ordered. I've seen prices as high as $4.00 _per_ marking...


----------



## myosh_tino

Botev1912 said:


> They would be fine if they looked like the markings in New Zealand. But when most of them break fast, they make the road look terrible. What's the point of wasting money for something that doesn't last as expected but it is still used?


Depends on your definition of "break fast" is. In California, RPMs have a lifespan of 5-10 years and since they are installed in groups of 4, it's not a big deal if one of them breaks.

In more recent paving jobs, a combination of RPMs and thermoplastic striping have been used for lane-line striping.


----------



## Jim856796

Portions of some controlled-access highways in Texas (mainly the interstates) are gonna look like they're on steroids, like Katy Freeway.


----------



## Professor L Gee

tradephoric said:


> Here's the road network that INRIX analyzed in Tampa. I don't know how good of a job INRIX does evaluating congestion within a city when only freeways are analyzed. US-19 carries up to 80,000 vehicles per day yet since it's mainly a surface street with signalized intersections the route wasn't analyzed (at least the section through Clearwater):


That explains why Metro Atlanta got such a good ranking. :hm:


----------



## Botev1912

myosh_tino said:


> In more recent paving jobs, a combination of RPMs and thermoplastic striping have been used for lane-line striping.


They put new markings on a lot of street in Seattle area that past summer. Now several months later, there are spots on the roads, where these markings are completely gone or there is only 1 left out of 4.


----------



## tradephoric

I'm trying to expand a little bit on the INRIX congestion ratings. Here is the road networks to cities with relatively bad congestion to population rating ratios:

Bridgeport -Congestion Ranking: #24









San Jose - Congestion Ranking #18









Austin - Congestion Ranking #26









San Francisco - Congestion Ranking #6









Baltimore - Congestion Ranking #14









Seattle - Congestion Ranking #10









Minneapolis - Congestion Ranking #11









Denver - Congestion Ranking #16


----------



## tradephoric

And here's cities with relatively good congestion to population ratios...

Tuscon - Congestion Ranking: #88









Tampa - Congestion Ranking: #38









Orlando - Congestion Ranking: #43









Detroit - Congestion Ranking: #22









Miami - Congestion Ranking: #15









Phoenix - Congestion Ranking: #19









St. Louis - Congestion Ranking: #25









Is there any comparisons that can be made? Just looking through the maps it seems that cities with a rats nest of concentrated freeways are more congested then cities with well defined freeway networks.


----------



## myosh_tino

Botev1912 said:


> They put new markings on a lot of street in Seattle area that past summer. Now several months later, there are spots on the roads, where these markings are completely gone or there is only 1 left out of 4.


Actually, I'm a little surprised that WSDOT uses raised pavement markers due to the fact that is snows in Seattle a few times each year and snowplows are an RPM's worst nightmare. California does not use RPMs on I-80 over Donner Pass or on I-5 north of Redding because of the use of snowplows during the winter months. In fact, Caltrans will "embed" the reflectors in the road surface (concrete or asphalt) so they won't be scraped off by snowplows.


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## HAWC1506

Botev1912 said:


> They put new markings on a lot of street in Seattle area that past summer. Now several months later, there are spots on the roads, where these markings are completely gone or there is only 1 left out of 4.


Seattle DOT uses RPMs almost exclusively with paint. I find that it's not even the snow plows that do the most damage. By the time snow plows get to it, the buses have already pushed them all off the street. I honestly don't understand the fascination with RPMs in this state.

WSDOT is phasing them out, opting for profiled plastic markings instead like in the Netherlands.


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## Botev1912

Lynnwood and Bellevue use these markings without paint and they don't hold up. I can't understand why they keep using them.


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## mgk920

HAWC1506 said:


> Seattle DOT uses RPMs almost exclusively with paint. I find that it's not even the snow plows that do the most damage. By the time snow plows get to it, the buses have already pushed them all off the street. I honestly don't understand the fascination with RPMs in this state.
> 
> WSDOT is phasing them out, opting for profiled plastic markings instead like in the Netherlands.


Keep in mind that studded tires are legal in Washington and they will also remove road markings very quickly, in addition to quickly cutting deep ruts into the road's surfaces themselves.

They are very expensive to highway departments and is why Wisconsin outlawed them back in about 1975.

Mike


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## HAWC1506

Botev1912 said:


> Lynnwood and Bellevue use these markings without paint and they don't hold up. I can't understand why they keep using them.


Most of the time (and I find this common in many transport agencies, whether it be highway or public transport) is the mindset of "We've always done it this way."

It's very common among organizations I've seen and I have no idea why. To them, it's almost like nobody knows about the world beyond the U.S.




mgk920 said:


> Keep in mind that studded tires are legal in Washington and they will also remove road markings very quickly, in addition to quickly cutting deep ruts into the road's surfaces themselves.
> 
> They are very expensive to highway departments and is why Wisconsin outlawed them back in about 1975.
> 
> Mike


There was an estimate that studded tires in Washington causes $18 million of road damage a year. I find that number to be too low, seeing how many highways that were paved just a few years ago are starting to show signs of deterioration.

Several attempts have been made to outlaw studded tires, but of course the industry's against it...


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## Tommy Boy

I think that USA thread of "non interste highway" should have a thread of every state as europe countries has. California has one Texas, Maine and so on as in europe we have france has one thread, sweden spain and so on.


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## Tommy Boy

I think that USA thread of " USA interste highway" should have a thread of every state as europe countries has. California has one Texas, Maine and so on as in europe we have france has one thread, sweden spain and so on.[/QUOTE]


Forget of the "non" I meant USA I H. Sorry


----------



## diablo234




----------



## Professor L Gee

Tommy Boy said:


> I think that USA thread of " USA interste highway" should have a thread of every state as europe countries has. California has one Texas, Maine and so on as in europe we have france has one thread, sweden spain and so on.
> 
> 
> Forget of the "non" I meant USA I H. Sorry


State highways are all lumped together within the Non-Interstate thread.

However, this thread is for the national Interstate Highway System, which is the same system in all 50 states and Puerto Rico.


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## jchernin

The westbound deck of the San Francisco Bay Bridge (I-80) is scheduled to close this Presidents’ Day weekend.











For more information: http://baybridgeinfo.org/

Just for fun, some renderings of the completed bridge, set to open next year:









http://www.mtc.ca.gov/planning/bay_bridge/









http://techstar.agatho.com/products_cable.html









http://baybridgeinfo.org/media/image/self-anchored-suspension-span-new-bay-bridge#.TzyyTLSwVM0


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## FM 2258

^^ 

It looks really nice.


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## Tommy Boy

What will happend to the old bridge


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## Tommy Boy

Some places in big american cities with heavy traffic congestions have small interchanges with alot of traffic jams. They need to build bigger interchanges. In Texas they have the famoused HIGH FIVE INTERCHANGES. When will it come High Ten interchanges or atleast High Six Interchanges. Look in Los Angeles, traffic jams and small interchanges all over L.A metropolitan. 

Caltran needs to build up the highway systems around L.A and bigger interchanges.


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## tradephoric

Does INRIX's 100 Most Congested Metro Summary do a good job listing the most and least congested cities in America? Looking through INRIX rankings it looks like Miami does a good job managing congestion (7th most populous city, 15th most congested). 









On the other hand a city like Minneapolis has relatively bad congestion (16th most populous metro, 11th most congested).









But looking closer, does INRIX make a fair comparison? In Miami's case INRIX is analyzing highways that are very far away from downtown Miami. When you are stuck in gridlock traffic 7 miles from downtown is there any comfort that the highways near Fort Pierce are traveling smoothly over 100 miles away? On the other hand, the Minneapolis network that was rated is very concentrated and only branch out about 25 miles from the city center. 

I think the biggest problem is defining the size of a metro region for these rankings. What would be a better method? It's just hard to believe that Miami is ranked right next to Denver in traffic congestion.


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## jchernin

Harbor Freeway in Los Angeles:


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## Jschmuck

Minneapolis and Boston have problems because of the use of cloverleaf interchanges and the lack of replacing them with weaveless(that a word?) interchanges. A look at satelite photos of these areas will show an abundance of cloverleaf interchanges which do not work well on busy roads.


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## ChrisZwolle

Quite a number of those Minneapolis locations have only 2 lanes each way.


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## tradephoric

A more accurate comparison would be to analyze the congestion within a 25 mile radius of the city center. The highest average commute time of any major American city is in Nashville with an average commute of 25.2 miles (road miles driven, not as the bird flies). Basically your average American commuter isn't willing to drive 25 miles to get to work so why analyze highways that are over 100 miles away from downtown Miami to determine Miami's congestion rating? 

Rating the highways within the shaded 25 mile radius of the two cities would lead to a closer apples to apples comparison.


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## ChrisZwolle

I-70 in Kansas City.


122711_I70WB_DSC_0166.pic by MoDOT KC 4, on Flickr


122711_I70EB_DSC_0163.pic by MoDOT KC 4, on Flickr


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## Xusein

For some reason, the new arrows don't look right to me. I guess it takes some getting used to.


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## crazyknightsfan

the design is poor, it makes it look like you can get to Wichita from both middle and right through lanes


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## ChrisZwolle

But if you divide the two destinations, it looks like Topeka can only be reached via the leftmost lanes, which is not true either.


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> But if you divide the two destinations, it looks like Topeka can only be reached via the leftmost lanes, which is not true either.


It actually make sense to suggest using leftmost lanes for Topeka as the right lanes will be used by the exiting/joining traffic.
I find American signage very logical. You have to read it from right to left. First destinations exiting now (here Des Moines), the one to the left goes next (in this case Wichita) and destination on the left hand side (Topeka) is straight on. Simple.


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## geor

Little by little Americans begin to use EU standard for directing traffic flows on MW. That is the way how the Old Continent has been functioning for years and there are not problems with those arrows, not at all.


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## Suburbanist

^^ Kansas City, arguably the US metro best served with highways in the whole country!


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## J N Winkler

I have to agree with Crazyknightsfan's criticism, which actually gets at the heart of an unanticipated problem with arrow-per-lane diagrammatics. Diagrammatics in general are meant to incorporate information for the straight-ahead direction and at most _one_ exit. They become very difficult to design when they are required to incorporate information for multiple exits.

In this particular case, the sign encourages Topeka-bound traffic to make unnecessary lane changes to the left to avoid putative lane drops for Wichita when in fact all three lanes go through to Topeka. If an arrow-per-lane diagrammatic is to be used at this exit, then this problem can be fixed only by eliminating Wichita from the sign altogether. But such a solution would cause other problems because the exits for Des Moines and Wichita are closely spaced and the Wichita exit needs advance signing. If this is provided downstream of the Des Moines exit, it is too close to the ramp. If it is provided upstream of the Des Moines exit, it might confuse Wichita-bound drivers into taking the Des Moines exit because Wichita is the "next" exit (it is fairly unusual for consecutive exits to have overlapping advance guide signing). (The alternate remedy of adding a distance to the Wichita block, to indicate that it is a destination reached by exiting, would not answer the problem of false lane assignment.)

The new arrow-per-lane diagrammatics don't handle multiple closely spaced exits well. And since they can be exit direction signs as well, unlike the old stippled-arrow diagrammatics which were advance guide signs only, the problem is even worse.

Fortunately, in this case, the _MUTCD_ does not actually require an arrow-per-lane diagrammatic. Such diagrammatics are actually required only for major interchanges that (1) have an exit with option lane that carries the through route or (2) involve splits with an option lane. In this particular case, I-70/I-435 is a major interchange, and it has an exit with an option lane, but the use of an arrow-per-lane diagrammatic is not required because the exit does not carry the through route (which is I-70 in this case) and this interchange is not a split.

So, here a diagrammatic is an option, not a requirement, and since it is one that causes problems as currently designed, it would be better to substitute different signs. Here is what I would recommend:

* Final advance guide sign gantry before both Exits 8A and 8B (left to right): (1) Pull-through for I-70 westbound/Topeka, (2) advance guide sign for I-435 southbound/Wichita (1/2 mile), (3) lane drop advance guide sign for I-435 northbound/Des Moines (lane drop advance guide signs don't have to have a distance if the exit is less than 1/4 mile away)

* Exit gantry for Exit 8B (left to right): (1) Pull-through sign for I-70/Topeka; (2) advance guide sign for I-435/Wichita (1/4 mile): (3) two-lane lane-drop exit direction sign for I-435/Des Moines

* Exit gantry for Exit 8A: Same as existing installation.


----------



## geor

When there is one lane for straight on and right turning it is only way to use these arrows


----------



## myosh_tino

To put JN Winkler's post into graphical form...



J N Winkler said:


> * Final advance guide sign gantry before both Exits 8A and 8B (left to right): (1) Pull-through for I-70 westbound/Topeka, (2) advance guide sign for I-435 southbound/Wichita (1/2 mile), (3) lane drop advance guide sign for I-435 northbound/Des Moines (lane drop advance guide signs don't have to have a distance if the exit is less than 1/4 mile away)











J N Winkler said:


> * Exit gantry for Exit 8B (left to right): (1) Pull-through sign for I-70/Topeka; (2) advance guide sign for I-435/Wichita (1/4 mile): (3) two-lane lane-drop exit direction sign for I-435/Des Moines









I found that photo of the I-70/I-435 guide signs very interesting because this particular signing situation is quite common in California and if (and it's a big IF) California adopts the arrow-per-lane signage, I was curious to see how they would handle this situation.


----------



## Paddington

This discussion makes my head hurt. hno:


----------



## geogregor

I can see argument for precision but don't you guys exaggerate with such splitting hair in four (as we say in Polish)?

The current signage honestly doesn't seems wrong to me, I definitely wouldn't get lost. OK, I did drive a lot in the US but how many stranded first time European tourists do you expect in Kansas City? For most Americans the currents signs are quite easy to understand.


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## musiccity

*I-40 in Nashville*


I-40 West at Exit 213 - Nashville by Adam's Journey, on Flickr


I-40 West - Exit 204B&A - TN 155 Briley Parkway by Adam's Journey, on Flickr

^^
This interchange is now complete


Nashville International Airport (BNA) Exit by riffsyphon1024, on Flickr

^^

I-40 near the airport










^^

I-40/I-24 Interchange


----------



## myosh_tino

J N Winkler said:


> Fortunately, in this case, the _MUTCD_ does not actually require an arrow-per-lane diagrammatic. Such diagrammatics are actually required only for major interchanges that (1) have an exit with option lane that carries the through route or (2) involve splits with an option lane. *In this particular case, I-70/I-435 is a major interchange, and it has an exit with an option lane, but the use of an arrow-per-lane diagrammatic is not required because the exit does not carry the through route* (which is I-70 in this case) and this interchange is not a split.


Wait a minute. The I-70/I-435 North exit, where the arrow-per-lane sign is installed does have an option lane that carries the through route. The #3 lane (counting from the left) *IS* an option lane for I-70 or I-435 North. In that case, isn't an arrow-per-lane sign required per the 2009 MUTCD Sec 2E.20?


----------



## FM 2258

musiccity said:


> *I-40 in Nashville*
> <snip>
> 
> I-40/I-24 Interchange


Nice pictures. Great arrows, I say if it ain't broke don't fix it. I think I said it before...in my mind if the arrow points down it means you're staying on the highway, if it points up, you're leaving the highway for another roadway.


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## -Pino-

myosh_tino said:


> The #3 lane (counting from the left) *IS* an option lane for I-70 or I-435 North. In that case, isn't an arrow-per-lane sign required per the 2009 MUTCD Sec 2E.20?


The photo suggests that the #3 is NOT an option lane, but a through lane. After the I-435 South exit, a separate exit lane appears on the right to carry traffic to the I-435 North. 

To revert on JN Winkler's thoughts, I can see his reasoning, but his proposed signs (pretty much the pre-2009 system) is, in my opinion, equally likely to provoke uncessary lane changes. Topeka and Wichita-bound traffic might leave the #3 lane because it seems to head to Des Moines. Of course, the fact that there is no EXIT ONLY above that lane tells you that you will not be forced to turn off to Des Moines, but the arrow suggests something different. In other words: the message of the old system is counter-intuitive. Presumably that is why the MUTCD with the standing arrows / European system came into being in the first place.

It may be because I am European, but I absolutely believe that the new system is the better approach. I do appreciate that the standing arrows are not ideal when it comes to signposting two exits in quick succession, but as I mentioned, neither was the old system. One could play around a bit by not placing Topeka and Wichita next to each other on the sign, but to rather place them underneath each other. That would keep Topeka-bound traffic on lane #3, but you then still need to introduce a form of advance warning to traffic exiting to Wichita. You pretty much want them in lane #3 at this stage ...


----------



## Traffic Eng.

I would have to agree to -Pino-'s post, but that's just because I'm European too . Without reading the previous posts I imagined that it would be easier to confuse the locals (at least in the first time) with the changes than confusing a first-timer.

So I'd say the arrows over lane signage is pretty good. Wichita is in the middle of one lane when Topeka is in the middle of two lanes, from here it's pretty intuitive that only one arrow is for Whichita and two arrows are for Topeka.

The signs are already installed and I think it's worthy to observe how well they actually work.


----------



## myosh_tino

-Pino- said:


> The photo suggests that the #3 is NOT an option lane, but a through lane. After the I-435 South exit, a separate exit lane appears on the right to carry traffic to the I-435 North.


I think you have your directions mixed up. The first exit on I-70 West is to I-435 North, the second exit is to I-435 South. Also, the #3 lane IS an option lane as you have the option to stay on I-70 West or exit onto I-435 North. You are correct that just past the exit a new exit-only lane to I-435 South forms.



-Pino- said:


> To revert on JN Winkler's thoughts, I can see his reasoning, but his proposed signs (pretty much the pre-2009 system) is, in my opinion, equally likely to provoke uncessary lane changes. Topeka and Wichita-bound traffic might leave the #3 lane because it seems to head to Des Moines. Of course, the fact that there is no EXIT ONLY above that lane tells you that you will not be forced to turn off to Des Moines, but the arrow suggests something different. In other words: the message of the old system is counter-intuitive. Presumably that is why the MUTCD with the standing arrows / European system came into being in the first place.


But I believe the way the new arrow-per-lane sign is laid out causes even more driver confusion because it implies that vehicles in the #2 lane may also exit to I-435 South when in reality, if you're in the #2 lane you would need to dive across 2 lanes to make the exit. At least with the pre-2009 MUTCD style, the advance guide sign for I-435 South gives an indication that those wanting to take that exit should move into the rightmost through lane.



-Pino- said:


> It may be because I am European, but I absolutely believe that the new system is the better approach. I do appreciate that the standing arrows are not ideal when it comes to signposting two exits in quick succession, but as I mentioned, neither was the old system.


I believe the new arrow-per-lane signs can be useful but I think their use should be limited to where the next exit must be at least 1 mile ahead to allow proper advance guide signing. I am also not a fan of overly tall signs (I'm from California where the max overhead sign height is 10 ft.) and the amount of wasted space the new arrow-per-lane signs tend to have.


----------



## -Pino-

myosh_tino said:


> But I believe the way the new arrow-per-lane sign is laid out causes even more driver confusion because it implies that vehicles in the #2 lane may also exit to I-435 South when in reality, if you're in the #2 lane you would need to dive across 2 lanes to make the exit. At least with the pre-2009 MUTCD style, the advance guide sign for I-435 South gives an indication that those wanting to take that exit should move into the rightmost through lane.


You might even be able to do so out of the #1 lane. You've got about a quarter of a mile to go before the exit and, provided that traffic levels are low enough, you can easily cross a few lanes and make the exit. What is important, however, is an indication how far away the I-435 South exit is. On comparable signs in Europe that will find that distance. The combination of traffic density and distance indication allows the motorist en route to the I-435 South to decide when to move to lane #3.



> I believe the new arrow-per-lane signs can be useful but I think their use should be limited to where the next exit must be at least 1 mile ahead to allow proper advance guide signing. I am also not a fan of overly tall signs (I'm from California where the max overhead sign height is 10 ft.) and the amount of wasted space the new arrow-per-lane signs tend to have.


The wasted space tends to come with better overview when compared to three separate overhead signs. Which is also worth something. But I do agree that sign makers should be careful not to overdimension their gantries. 

I would not say that all cause for the arrow-per-lane signs is lost if the next exit is closer than 1 mile. But you need to be careful in announcing the next exit through your lane allocation. In my opinion, you need a much more neutral approach that simply says how far away the next exit is and then only start allocating lanes for that next exit after you have passed the initial exit. But to be honest, I think the same of working with the old falling arrows.


----------



## myosh_tino

-Pino- said:


> You might even be able to do so out of the #1 lane. You've got about a quarter of a mile to go before the exit and, provided that traffic levels are low enough, you can easily cross a few lanes and make the exit. What is important, however, is an indication how far away the I-435 South exit is. On comparable signs in Europe that will find that distance. The combination of traffic density and distance indication allows the motorist en route to the I-435 South to decide when to move to lane #3.


I'm sorry but diving across 3 lanes in a quarter mile, even in light traffic, is dangerous even borderline reckless and will earn you a ticket if a cop sees you do it. While the arrow-per-lane sign does not provide a distance to the I-435 South exit, the drawing I posted upthread does provide a distance for the I-435 South advance guide sign (1/4 mile).


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## J N Winkler

myosh_tino said:


> Wait a minute. The I-70/I-435 North exit, where the arrow-per-lane sign is installed does have an option lane that carries the through route. The #3 lane (counting from the left) *IS* an option lane for I-70 or I-435 North. In that case, isn't an arrow-per-lane sign required per the 2009 MUTCD Sec 2E.20?


I would contend not. My interpretation of the 2E.20 criterion is that the _exit_ carries the through route--i.e., the interchange is a TOTSO. In this case there is an option lane for I-70 and I-435 but I-70 itself does not follow the exit.

The actual wording in 2E.20 is as follows:



> On freeways and expressways, either the Overhead Arrow-per-Lane or Diagrammatic guide sign designs as provided in Sections 2E.21 and 2E.22 shall be used for all multi-lane exits at major interchanges (see Section 2E.32) that have an optional exit lane that also carries the through route (see Figures 2E-4, 2E-5, 2E-8, and 2E-9) and for all splits that include an option lane (see Figures 2E-6 and 2E-10).


It comes down to what is meant by "optional exit lane." If the intention is to require diagrammatics at all major interchanges which have an option lane, then it is not necessary to specify that the "optional exit lane" also carries the through route or, for that matter, to specify that it is an optional _exit_ lane.

I think the intention is actually to limit the requirement to TOTSO situations and splits, a fairly narrow application which is a traditional concern in the literature on driver expectancy. The _MUTCD_ allows arrow-per-lane diagrammatics to be used in other situations where an option lane is present but it does not actually mandate them.

By the way, thank you for drawing my suggested approach. It is actually correct for _MUTCD_ 2003. A couple of changes are necessary to update it for _MUTCD_ 2009. First, in the first gantry the second arrow needs to be dropped from the advance guide sign for Exit 8A, so that it is a simple lane-drop sign with just one down arrow against a yellow panel. Second, in the second gantry, the bottom yellow panel has to extend across the full width of the lane-drop exit direction sign for Exit 8A (so that both "exit" arrows are black against yellow).

Pino is correct to say that the old (2003) arrangement encouraged drivers to make unnecessary lane changes to avoid the option lane. That is the rationale for the current (2009) approach, which is based (if memory serves) on a simulator study which Jonathan Upchurch carried out at the University of Massachusetts in 2003. It does encourage drivers to make unnecessary lane changes into the dropped lane when they can equally well take the option lane for the exit, but the consequences of this tend to be more benign because the driver is moving right (rather than left) and is expecting to exit. The _MUTCD_ recommends ground-mounted lane assignment signs (regulatory colors) to warn drivers of the option lane condition at such exits, and some state DOTs have tried part-width arrow-per-lane diagrammatics which show just the dropped lane and the option lane (not the through lanes).


----------



## ScraperDude

The interchange you guys are discussing is a dream come true compared to the rest in Kansas City. This entire city is PLAGUED with left exits, left lanes that end (I-435 Eastern leg Missouri side) as soon as a major ramp joins I-435 from the right, that lane continues and the left lane ends and what was a middle lane becomes the new left lane which in turn causes semi-trucks to now be traveling in the left lane.... for miles.... this madness starts at I-435 and I-35 NE Kansas City metro, I-435 and Parvin rd, I-435 and Armour rd (just one mile south of Parvin rd) and finally at the I-435 and I-70 interchange you are discussing. 

People are always shooting across 4 or 5 lanes of traffic to reach a left exit here.


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## Tommy Boy

Does it have a site of the project in Kansas City, or pictures. Thanks


----------



## myosh_tino

J N Winkler said:


> I would contend not. My interpretation of the 2E.20 criterion is that the _exit_ carries the through route--i.e., the interchange is a TOTSO. In this case there is an option lane for I-70 and I-435 but I-70 itself does not follow the exit.
> 
> The actual wording in 2E.20 is as follows: ...
> 
> 
> 
> On freeways and expressways, either the Overhead Arrow-per-Lane or Diagrammatic guide sign designs as provided in Sections 2E.21 and 2E.22 shall be used for all multi-lane exits at major interchanges (see Section 2E.32) that have an optional exit lane that also carries the through route (see Figures 2E-4, 2E-5, 2E-8, and 2E-9) and for all splits that include an option lane (see Figures 2E-6 and 2E-10).
Click to expand...

Hmm... that's not how I interpreted 2E.20. If I may, here is Figure 2E-4 from the 2009 MUTCD which is referenced in your quote from Sec 2E.20...









In this example, I-84 is the through route and the exit is for route 72. This does not look like a TOTSO situation to me. It looks like a standard multi-lane exit with an option lane.


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## J N Winkler

Myosh_tino: yes, you are right, that is not a TOTSO. My interpretation is that it shows the permissive case: an arrow-per-lane diagrammatic _may_ be used but is not _required_ to be used. Note that the drawing caption does not state that the interchange is "major," which is part of the "must" condition in the Standard statement in 2E.20.


----------



## Tom 958

J N Winkler said:


> Myosh_tino: yes, you are right, that is not a TOTSO. My interpretation is that it shows the permissive case: an arrow-per-lane diagrammatic _may_ be used but is not _required_ to be used. Note that the drawing caption does not state that the interchange is "major," which is part of the "must" condition in the Standard statement in 2E.20.


Indeed. There are many, many such splits in (for instance) Atlanta, the vast majority of which are just lane drop ramps for service interchanges. If using arrows-per-lane signage was mandatory, it would blur the distinction between a major fork and just another offramp.

As a matter of fact, I remember that sometime in the early '80's GaDOT put old skool diagrammatic arrows at a few such ramps (I-20 and Wesley Chapel Road was one), but took them down after a few months, possibly out of common sense or possibly because FHWA informed them that their interpretation of the then-current MUTCD was incorrect.

Speaking of which, a few months ago I posted about the signage for Atlanta's I-85 HOT lanes having to be redone before the lanes opened because they were at odds with the MUTCD. They looked stupid, too. :nuts:

EDIT: That said, Connecticut 72 is a freeway, so IMO the signage myosh_tino posted would be appropriate there.


----------



## AUchamps

I don't like the "California look" for Exit Only. Give me the more conventional style. It's bad enough that we're losing Highway Gothic to Clearview but now this? Give me a freakin' break.


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## ChrisZwolle

What is actually so bad about Clearview? I don't understand all the fuss about it among road enthusiasts. It looks like a fine font to me, it's better than most fonts used in Europe for instance.


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## myosh_tino

ChrisZwolle said:


> What is actually so bad about Clearview? I don't understand all the fuss about it among road enthusiasts. It looks like a fine font to me, it's better than most fonts used in Europe for instance.


While I suppose I could live with the letters, Clearview numerals are absolutely hideous. Series E/E(M) and D numerals are far superior IMO.


----------



## Rail Claimore

I'm fine with Clearview, and it works well for white letters on dark backgrounds. But for black letters on light backgrounds, it's atrocious.


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## desertpunk

*Green power coming to a freeway near you?*










Concept is from 2007 but kinda interesting nonetheless.


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## Paddington

Hideous


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## diablo234

desertpunk said:


> *Green power coming to a freeway near you?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Concept is from 2007 but kinda interesting nonetheless.


I don't see that generating much wind power.


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## g.spinoza

^^ Better than nothing...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Fans of toll roads may be happy to hear that Arkansas is studying a toll option to expand and modernize I-40 between Little Rock and Memphis. Those not a fan of toll roads will likely not be very happy, including the trucking industry. 

I-40 is not particularly busy, and carries 30,000 - 40,000 vehicles per day outside the metropolitan areas, but the truck percentage is one of the highest in the nation, exceeding 50 and even 60% between Little Rock and Memphis.

http://www.kuar.org/kuarnews/53915-study-proposes-converting-i-40-to-a-toll-road.html


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## desertpunk

Dallas freeways


Skyline by the urban fabric, on Flickr


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## rantanamo

MarneGator said:


> Oh, Dallas is _trying_, but to do what? One need not do much to improve the aesthetics a - make the columns hexagonal, make the hammerhead column-top more visually organic to its pillar, make all of the girders trapezoidal steel-boxes, etc - because function will always define structures like these. Why make a garish, superficial display when modifying elements of the engineering can deliver a visually pleasing impact?
> The fly-overs between I-95 / I-195 in Providence or between I-10 / Sam Houston Tollway in Houston look great even though they have less. Or, as I mentioned before, if you prefer the all-concrete approach, look at some of what's been built in California. (not mine)
> 
> 
> Haha! I didn't want to the be the one to say it!
> 
> Anyway, that's the last I'll make mention of this. Carry on, lads!


insult and run?


----------



## Tom 958

ChrisZwolle said:


> Fans of toll roads may be happy to hear that Arkansas is studying a toll option to expand and modernize I-40 between Little Rock and Memphis. Those not a fan of toll roads will likely not be very happy, including the trucking industry.
> 
> I-40 is not particularly busy, and carries 30,000 - 40,000 vehicles per day outside the metropolitan areas, but the truck percentage is one of the highest in the nation, exceeding 50 and even 60% between Little Rock and Memphis.
> 
> http://www.kuar.org/kuarnews/53915-study-proposes-converting-i-40-to-a-toll-road.html


There's no way it'll happen. Still, I've often wondered how little Arkansas could expect to fund I-49 and I-69 on top of maintaining and improving the rest of its road system.

I-40 there is quite old-- you can see on Google that most of it has the narrow median of early Interstates. I suppose it needs not only widening but reconstruction of the pavement and bridges.

Oh: 30-40,000 vpd is plenty busy for a rural highway in the US. I wonder if that's actual count or passenger vehicle equivalents.


----------



## khoojyh

siamu maharaj said:


> It is a terrible idea.


I do not think so, if cover all the expressway with this thing, that's the bad idea with few pieces in few km is good ideal.


----------



## CNGL

Those pictures go here:


CITYofDREAMS said:


> The 105 and 110 Freeway interchange in Los Angeles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://blog.onlinelandplanning.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist07/Publications/Inside7/story.php?id=526


----------



## dima4444

yes:


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## xrtn2

^^ these pictures above is a bus lane ??? 

ow :nuts:


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## Suburbanist

xrtn2 said:


> ^^ these pictures above is a bus lane ???
> 
> ow :nuts:


No, they are HOT/HOV lanes (high-occupancy toll / high-occupancy vehicle). In a nutshell, lanes accessible only by cars with a 2 or 3 people, or those for which a toll (electronically collected) is due in case a single-occupancy car is driven there.


----------



## xrtn2

^^ humm 

E eu achando que era uma chique linha de BRT. :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There is a bus station at the lowest level on I-110 though. It connects with the light rail in the median of I-105, two levels higher.


----------



## myosh_tino

Suburbanist said:


> No, they are HOT/HOV lanes (high-occupancy toll / high-occupancy vehicle). In a nutshell, lanes accessible only by cars with a 2 or 3 people, or those for which a toll (electronically collected) is due in case a single-occupancy car is driven there.


If you are referring to the I-105/I-110 interchange photos above, the ramps that drop down in the middle of the freeway are HOV ramps for cars carrying 2 ore more people. I do not believe solo drivers can buy their way into these lanes by paying a toll yet. 

Up here in northern California, the HOV direct connector ramps at the I-880/CA-237 interchange in Milpitas, CA were converted into express lanes (another term for HOT lanes) to allow solo driver to use the lane for a fee.


----------



## Paddington

Lexus lanes, LMAO. 

I'm so glad this part of the country has none of that HOV lane foolishness. :cheers:


----------



## JackFrost

Hello guys,

I am gonna make a 3 week roundtrip through the US in August this year. We are planning to rent a trailer, so we dont have to look for a hotel or a motel all the time.

Our route will be as follows: New York City - Niagara Falls - Cleveland - Detroit - Chicago - Omaha - Denver - Salt Lake City - San Francisco - Los Angeles - Las Vegas - Alboquerque - Dallas - New Orleans - Tampa - Miami - Savannah - Washington D.C - Philadelphia - New York City

What do you think, is it possible to make that trip in 3 weeks, with stops also in national parks like the Niagara Falls or the Great Salt Desert, Grand Canyon etc?

Is it allowed to stop everywhere I want with my trailer over night to sleep? I dont mean next to the road of course, but if I find some parking lot then its OK to stop and sleep there, right?

Thanks for any help.


----------



## desertpunk

Paddington said:


> Lexus lanes, LMAO.
> 
> I'm so glad this part of the country has none of that HOV lane foolishness. :cheers:


How's Jimmy Hoffa's column holding up on the Lodge Freeway?


----------



## Suburbanist

Jack_Frost said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I am gonna make a 3 week roundtrip through the US in August this year. We are planning to rent a trailer, so we dont have to look for a hotel or a motel all the time.
> 
> Our route will be as follows: New York City - Niagara Falls - Cleveland - Detroit - Chicago - Omaha - Denver - Salt Lake City - San Francisco - Los Angeles - Las Vegas - Alboquerque - Dallas - New Orleans - Tampa - Miami - Savannah - Washington D.C - Philadelphia - New York City
> 
> What do you think, is it possible to make that trip in 3 weeks, with stops also in national parks like the Niagara Falls or the Great Salt Desert, Grand Canyon etc?
> 
> Is it allowed to stop everywhere I want with my trailer over night to sleep? I dont mean next to the road of course, but if I find some parking lot then its OK to stop and sleep there, right?
> 
> Thanks for any help.


I _think_ trailers and motorhomes are sometimes not allowed within certain cities, but I"m not exactly sure agbout that.


----------



## Paddington

It's an ambitious trip. Navigating an RV or a vehicle with a trailer will be difficult in places like New York City, and you may need to travel outside the city and pay for a parking spot somewhere.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's quite ambitious indeed. You're looking at two weeks of driving 600 miles / 1000 kilometers every day and one week left over for sightseeing. It's about 8,000 miles if you drive the shortest route, but if you want to go out of your way to visit some national parks "nearby", you're looking at 9,000 miles or more. 

A lot of people are under the impression you can drive from LA and visit the Grand Canyon and drive back in one day, but tend to forget the Grand Canyon is a good 8 hours from Los Angeles (one way), if traffic cooperates.


----------



## JackFrost

^^well if we run out of time, we'll cut the Miami "detour" and go straight from New Orleans to Washington D.C. to catch the plane back to Europe.

but it should be possible to do that trip in 3 weeks, apart from the mentioned national parks I am also having Mount Rushmore in mind to visit, which is not exactly on our route. And we gonna take a closer look on "only" 7 cities: New York, San Francisco, L.A. Las Vegas, New Orleans, Miami and Wahington D.C.

like I said my only concern is where to stop with the RV over night.


----------



## desertpunk

You can park an RV overnight in any Walmart parking lot. That doesn't help in large cities like NY or SF where you have to either find an RV campground like KOA outside of town or take your chances parking on the street. State parks charge money but are cheaper than private RV parks or hotels. Check state parks around SF, DC (Northern VA) and LA. You can Walmart it in Vegas.


----------



## geogregor

Jack_Frost said:


> ^^well if we run out of time, we'll cut the Miami "detour" and go straight from New Orleans to Washington D.C. to catch the plane back to Europe.
> 
> but it should be possible to do that trip in 3 weeks, apart from the mentioned national parks I am also having Mount Rushmore in mind to visit, which is not exactly on our route. And we gonna take a closer look on "only" 7 cities: New York, San Francisco, L.A. Las Vegas, New Orleans, Miami and Wahington D.C.
> 
> like I said my only concern is where to stop with the RV over night.


I have to say it is quote ambitious if not impossible.
We once did Orlando - New Orlean - El Paso - Grand Canyon - Las Vegas - Death Valley - San Francisco and back straight to Orlando in two weeks. And we didn't have much time to spare. We only stopped for few hours in places like New Orleans, or Las Vegas and for most of the day in Grand Canyon and San Francisco. 
I honestly can't see how you can do your route in 3 weeks. You can't drive trailer as fast as normal car, especially in the urban environment, also don't underestimate all the small stops you will make on your route, getting gas, eating, shopping, peeing etc. It will add up.
How many of you will drive? We had two drivers driving most of the days. 
Also, do you want to see anything during your journey? If yes you should cut it in half.


----------



## JackFrost

^^then you say you made it from the Atlantic to the Pacific and back in 2 weeks. thats basically the same I want to do, except that I dont take the same route back I came on. And of course I have to go all the way up from Miami back to New York/JFK. But I have 3 weeks for that, you had only 2.

We are 3 to drive, and my girlfriend will cook in the RVs kitchen while I (or one of my friends) drive. 

I am curios if it works or not. Like I said, if we run out of time we'll leave out Florida. I'll save at least 2 days with that "sacrifice".

@desertpunk: thank you.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Many people underestimate the size of Florida. Especially if coming from the Northeast, the distance from Washington to the Florida border is nearly similar as driving further all the way to Key West, which is a 9 hour drive easily. If you drive from New Orleans to Washington, cutting Tampa and Florida saves you at least a thousand miles worth of driving and congestion (South Florida's pretty bad).


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ An awesome drive would be the combination of Natchez Trace Parkway and Blue Ridge Parkway between Jackson, MS and Washington, DC.


----------



## mgk920

geogregor said:


> I have to say it is quote ambitious if not impossible.
> We once did Orlando - New Orlean - El Paso - Grand Canyon - Las Vegas - Death Valley - San Francisco and back straight to Orlando in two weeks. And we didn't have much time to spare. We only stopped for few hours in places like New Orleans, or Las Vegas and for most of the day in Grand Canyon and San Francisco.
> I honestly can't see how you can do your route in 3 weeks. You can't drive trailer as fast as normal car, especially in the urban environment, also don't underestimate all the small stops you will make on your route, getting gas, eating, shopping, peeing etc. It will add up.
> How many of you will drive? We had two drivers driving most of the days.
> Also, do you want to see anything during your journey? If yes you should cut it in half.


I agree. As I have said many times, many Europeans have absolutely no idea of how truly *VAST* the USA is. Just driving from NYC to Chicago in relaxed comfort is something that I'd budget two days for - one way.

I would stay east of the Mississippi River for those three weeks - there is plenty to see in the eastern USA and that time will fly by.

Spend a few says exploring the Appalachians (an end-to-end drive on the Blue Ridge Parkway and Skyline Drive between Shenandoah and Great Smoky Mountains National Parks is a MUST DO and requires three days to do in comfort), then a few days poking around Chicago and the Great Lakes, then spend a few days in the Gulf Coast region (including end-to-end on the Natchez Trace Parkway to get there) and your time will be used up.

Save the western USA for a future holiday.

Mike


----------



## JackFrost

^^I cant go to America without visiting the Great Salt Lake Desert 

Its a very big country indeed. If the route doesnt work I can still change my mind whenever I want and make a U-turn.


----------



## geogregor

Jack_Frost said:


> ^^then you say you made it from the Atlantic to the Pacific and back in 2 weeks. thats basically the same I want to do, except that I dont take the same route back I came on. And of course I have to go all the way up from Miami back to New York/JFK. But I have 3 weeks for that, you had only 2.
> 
> We are 3 to drive, and my girlfriend will cook in the RVs kitchen while I (or one of my friends) drive.
> 
> I am curios if it works or not. Like I said, if we run out of time we'll leave out Florida. I'll save at least 2 days with that "sacrifice".
> 
> @desertpunk: thank you.


You have great plan for your trip. I've seen most of the places you want to visit and they are all worth a visit. Fortunately I did it during few visits, not one crazy three-week madness 
There is so much you will have to skip on your journey and so many places you would like to stay longer.
Do you plan to sleep in the RV while someone is driving? That way you can actually make it 
Still, good luck and let us know how did it go once you come back.
When are you going?


----------



## JackFrost

^^
Sure Ill do. 
Ill leave on aug 11, coming back on sep 1.
So in case I dont write anything here after sep 1, it means I didnt make it and I was left for dishwashing somewhere in Florida because I have spent all my money on gas ))


----------



## Rail Claimore

Jack, I'm not sure you realize how big this country is... you'll need about twice the amount of time you have set aside to really enjoy the trip.

For example, the closest really big metropolitan area to me is Atlanta, which is 3 hours away. The next closest is Chicago, which is 8 hours away, and this is exceeding the speed limit on I-65. The two big Texas metros (Dallas and Houston) as well as central and south Florida (the parts of Florida worth seeing) are all a good 11 hours away, even though I live in a state that borders Florida.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-85 Charlotte*

Interstate 85 widening northeast of Charlotte.


I-85 Widening 1203210378 by NCDOTcommunications, on Flickr


I-85 Widening 1203210368 by NCDOTcommunications, on Flickr


I-85 Widening 1203210376 by NCDOTcommunications, on Flickr


I-85 Widening 1203210367 by NCDOTcommunications, on Flickr


I-85 Widening 1203210369 by NCDOTcommunications, on Flickr

You can see Charlotte, similar to Atlanta, is much more sprawled than other large cities in the south and west. Much more forests and spread out developments.


----------



## JackFrost

Rail Claimore said:


> Jack, I'm not sure you realize how big this country is... you'll need about twice the amount of time you have set aside to really enjoy the trip.
> 
> For example, the closest really big metropolitan area to me is Atlanta, which is 3 hours away. The next closest is Chicago, which is 8 hours away, and this is exceeding the speed limit on I-65. The two big Texas metros (Dallas and Houston) as well as central and south Florida (the parts of Florida worth seeing) are all a good 11 hours away, even though I live in a state that borders Florida.


I believe you. Thats why I asked in the first place, to get the opinions of you locals. Anyway, Ill try it, and lets see how far I get. The worst that can happen is that I am forced to turn back.


----------



## dima4444

:yes:


----------



## JackFrost

dima4444 said:


> :yes:


thx


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Jack_Frost said:


> I believe you. Thats why I asked in the first place, to get the opinions of you locals. Anyway, Ill try it, and lets see how far I get. The worst that can happen is that I am forced to turn back.


I'd also give yourself an extra day just in case of anything happening. I've done long roads trips quite a few times things do happen or something slows you down.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

ChrisZwolle said:


> Interstate 85 widening northeast of Charlotte.
> 
> You can see Charlotte, similar to Atlanta, is much more sprawled than other large cities in the south and west. Much more forests and spread out developments.


Well to be fair thats outer Charlotte but yes its very sprawled.


----------



## myosh_tino

Jack_Frost said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I am gonna make a 3 week roundtrip through the US in August this year. We are planning to rent a trailer, so we dont have to look for a hotel or a motel all the time.
> 
> Our route will be as follows: New York City - Niagara Falls - Cleveland - Detroit - Chicago - Omaha - Denver - Salt Lake City - San Francisco - Los Angeles - Las Vegas - Alboquerque - Dallas - New Orleans - Tampa - Miami - Savannah - Washington D.C - Philadelphia - New York City
> 
> What do you think, is it possible to make that trip in 3 weeks, with stops also in national parks like the Niagara Falls or the Great Salt Desert, Grand Canyon etc?
> 
> Is it allowed to stop everywhere I want with my trailer over night to sleep? I dont mean next to the road of course, but if I find some parking lot then its OK to stop and sleep there, right?
> 
> Thanks for any help.


Like others have said, that is quite an ambitious schedule. I mapped your route on Google Maps (keeping you on the freeway) and it says you will cover 8,191 miles! Divide that by 21 days and you will need to average 390 miles per day and that assumes you are not spending more than one day at any particular location (i.e. Las Vegas, San Francisco, etc). The most I have driven in one day is almost 700 miles from San Jose, CA to Portland, OR and that was an all-day drive (over 11 hours behind the wheel).

If you do go through with it, enjoy the scenery. It will be one hell of a drive!


----------



## SkyView

I spent four weeks only in the South West, drove about 4000 miles, and that was quite acceptable.
To give you an idea (sorry, in Dutch): https://docs.google.com/View?docid=drzgvw8_6fwp7sxdb


----------



## ADCS

myosh_tino said:


> Like others have said, that is quite an ambitious schedule. I mapped your route on Google Maps (keeping you on the freeway) and it says you will cover 8,191 miles! Divide that by 21 days and you will need to average 390 miles per day and that assumes you are not spending more than one day at any particular location (i.e. Las Vegas, San Francisco, etc). The most I have driven in one day is almost 700 miles from San Jose, CA to Portland, OR and that was an all-day drive (over 11 hours behind the wheel).
> 
> If you do go through with it, enjoy the scenery. It will be one hell of a drive!


Note - that's 13182 km. 390 mi is 628 km.



> New York City - Niagara Falls - Cleveland - Detroit - Chicago - Omaha - Denver - Salt Lake City - San Francisco - Los Angeles - Las Vegas - Alboquerque - Dallas - New Orleans - Tampa - Miami - Savannah - Washington D.C - Philadelphia - New York City


That's very ambitious.

NYC to Niagara Falls is about an 8 hour drive factoring in traffic. The Cleveland, Detroit and Chicago legs are much more reasonable, 3-5 hours each. 

Chicago to Omaha is a brutal 8 hour drive of absolutely nothing but plains and cornfields. Omaha to Denver is an even worse 8 hour drive that manages to have less along the way. I'm not sure you can understand how incredibly boring drives across the Great Plains are unless you've done a few. You'll be exhausted from these trips.

There is no good way to get from Denver to Salt Lake City. That may seem a little outlandish to you, but it is true. As a result, you get a crushing 9 hour drive, but with a few hills along the way to break up the scenery.

Salt Lake City to San Francisco is an oppressive 12 hour drive. For the first 2/3 of it, you get to drive across Nevada, which also consists of absolutely nothing. Then you get to Reno, and while you're drained from the long drive you've already put in, then you get to take the twisty I-80 through the Sierra Nevada. Then, when you get to the Bay Area, you might find that you're stuck in traffic for two hours waiting to get across the Bay Bridge into San Francisco. Even in August, that's all your daylight right there.

San Francisco to Los Angeles is another 7 hours, allowing for traffic. Driving through the lush Central Valley, you get to see... a whole lot of nothing but crops. Thing about driving in the United States is that in the West, there is a whole lot of empty space, or agricultural fields. That's what makes driving across it such a chore.

LA to Las Vegas is much more reasonable; a breezy 4-5 hours depending on traffic. Of course, at this point, with that much traveling, I'm not sure you'd even want to be up for gambling or drinking, especially considering the driving you have ahead of you.

Las Vegas to Albuquerque is 9 hours. It's also much more scenic than many of the routes you took before. On the same note, let's think about gasoline expenses here. If you're going 8,200 mi, and getting about 10 mpg in the RV, that means you're going to be buying about 820 gallons of fuel. At the current average price of $3.80/gal of gasoline, you're talking about spending $3,116 on gas alone. At current exchange rates, that's €2380, or £1,963. That's a lot of money, needless to say.

Albuquerque to Dallas is a long, long 11 hour drive. Once again, there is practically nothing along this route. I have personally driven the Amarillo-Fort Worth section several times, and I can tell you - you'll wonder how a place so desolate and boring could exist in a state as populous as Texas. At least stop in Amarillo for the 72 oz (2.04 kg) steak.

Dallas to New Orleans is a 9 hour drive factoring in traffic. It's much more interesting given that trees start to enter the picture again, and population densities begin to rise back to more familiar levels.

New Orleans to Tampa is where the size of the United States begins to play tricks on you. It is a legitimate 11 hour drive. The Florida Peninsula is much bigger than it may seem on the map. Also, remember the time of year you're going to be driving - late August is prime hurricane season on the Gulf Coast and in Florida. It would be really unfortunate if you got caught in an evacuation or had your progress impeded because of a hurricane that wreaked havoc across your route.

On a side note, I'd also like to point out what the non-catastrophic weather situation will be at this time of year in much of the country. From Los Angeles to Las Vegas, the high temperature will likely be 105ºF, or 40ºC. In Las Vegas, the temperature can very easily get to 115ºF, or 46ºC. From that point onward, all throughout the Southwest and the South, until you get out of South Carolina, you can expect the high temperature to be greater than 95ºF, or 35ºC. In the Southwest, it will simply be incredibly hot. In the Southeast, it will be hot and oppressively humid. Not only will this make being outside for any appreciable length of time uncomfortable, but it will put an enormous amount of stress and wear on your RV's motor. It doesn't take much for those things to overheat, and that would place a damper on your trip real quickly.

Tampa to Miami is more reasonable; 5 hours with traffic. But Florida's going to get tricky again...

Miami to Savannah is an 8 hour drive. Yes, this is entirely ridiculous. No, you will not want to do this drive at this point in the trip. And yes, you also risk getting hit by a hurricane or a tropical storm here.

Savannah to Washington, DC is supposedly a 10 hour drive. However, you'll be taking the illustrious Interstate 95 the entire way. The thing about I-95 is that it gets clogged with traffic in the middle of nowhere for no reason whatsoever, simply because everyone on the East Coast has to get to that highway for indecipherable purposes. It will likely take you 12 hours to make this leg of the journey.

At this point, you will have spent 135 hours in the RV. That's five full 24-hour days and fifteen hours. That's if you're lucky and don't run into any weather or mechanical problems.

DC to Philly is 3 hours, and Philly to NYC is 2 hours.

Summary: this trip is doable in three weeks, but it will require so much driving, be so expensive, and be subject to so many variables (like if you get caught speeding, and some highway patrolman thinks that you look suspicious, so he decides to detain you for a few hours while they get all your paperwork in order), that it really stretches the bounds of feasibility. 

As mentioned above, you could do most of the country east of the Mississippi River in the same amount of time, and have a lot more time to go to different places, or enjoy the places that you are at. You could even go to Canada if that's an option. The US has a lot to offer, so perhaps think about scaling down the scope of the trip, while increasing the density.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-95/I-495 Capital Beltway*

Some nice aerials of the last leg of the I-95 project south of Washington D.C.


Untitled by VaDOT, on Flickr


Untitled by VaDOT, on Flickr


Untitled by VaDOT, on Flickr


Untitled by VaDOT, on Flickr


----------



## Tommy Boy

Very nice sceneray and pictures. MORE PLEASE 

I like to see new highway constructions because americans are very good road builders:banana:. I know I am from silly sweden:hammer:.

Just LOVE LOVE LOVE BIG AMRICAN HIGHWAYS:banana:


----------



## JackFrost

ADCS said:


> Note - that's 13182 km. 390 mi is 628 km.
> 
> 
> 
> That's very ambitious.
> 
> NYC to Niagara Falls is about an 8 hour drive factoring in traffic. The Cleveland, Detroit and Chicago legs are much more reasonable, 3-5 hours each.
> 
> Chicago to Omaha is a brutal 8 hour drive of absolutely nothing but plains and cornfields. Omaha to Denver is an even worse 8 hour drive that manages to have less along the way. I'm not sure you can understand how incredibly boring drives across the Great Plains are unless you've done a few. You'll be exhausted from these trips.
> 
> There is no good way to get from Denver to Salt Lake City. That may seem a little outlandish to you, but it is true. As a result, you get a crushing 9 hour drive, but with a few hills along the way to break up the scenery.
> 
> Salt Lake City to San Francisco is an oppressive 12 hour drive. For the first 2/3 of it, you get to drive across Nevada, which also consists of absolutely nothing. Then you get to Reno, and while you're drained from the long drive you've already put in, then you get to take the twisty I-80 through the Sierra Nevada. Then, when you get to the Bay Area, you might find that you're stuck in traffic for two hours waiting to get across the Bay Bridge into San Francisco. Even in August, that's all your daylight right there.
> 
> San Francisco to Los Angeles is another 7 hours, allowing for traffic. Driving through the lush Central Valley, you get to see... a whole lot of nothing but crops. Thing about driving in the United States is that in the West, there is a whole lot of empty space, or agricultural fields. That's what makes driving across it such a chore.
> 
> LA to Las Vegas is much more reasonable; a breezy 4-5 hours depending on traffic. Of course, at this point, with that much traveling, I'm not sure you'd even want to be up for gambling or drinking, especially considering the driving you have ahead of you.
> 
> Las Vegas to Albuquerque is 9 hours. It's also much more scenic than many of the routes you took before. On the same note, let's think about gasoline expenses here. If you're going 8,200 mi, and getting about 10 mpg in the RV, that means you're going to be buying about 820 gallons of fuel. At the current average price of $3.80/gal of gasoline, you're talking about spending $3,116 on gas alone. At current exchange rates, that's €2380, or £1,963. That's a lot of money, needless to say.
> 
> Albuquerque to Dallas is a long, long 11 hour drive. Once again, there is practically nothing along this route. I have personally driven the Amarillo-Fort Worth section several times, and I can tell you - you'll wonder how a place so desolate and boring could exist in a state as populous as Texas. At least stop in Amarillo for the 72 oz (2.04 kg) steak.
> 
> Dallas to New Orleans is a 9 hour drive factoring in traffic. It's much more interesting given that trees start to enter the picture again, and population densities begin to rise back to more familiar levels.
> 
> New Orleans to Tampa is where the size of the United States begins to play tricks on you. It is a legitimate 11 hour drive. The Florida Peninsula is much bigger than it may seem on the map. Also, remember the time of year you're going to be driving - late August is prime hurricane season on the Gulf Coast and in Florida. It would be really unfortunate if you got caught in an evacuation or had your progress impeded because of a hurricane that wreaked havoc across your route.
> 
> On a side note, I'd also like to point out what the non-catastrophic weather situation will be at this time of year in much of the country. From Los Angeles to Las Vegas, the high temperature will likely be 105ºF, or 40ºC. In Las Vegas, the temperature can very easily get to 115ºF, or 46ºC. From that point onward, all throughout the Southwest and the South, until you get out of South Carolina, you can expect the high temperature to be greater than 95ºF, or 35ºC. In the Southwest, it will simply be incredibly hot. In the Southeast, it will be hot and oppressively humid. Not only will this make being outside for any appreciable length of time uncomfortable, but it will put an enormous amount of stress and wear on your RV's motor. It doesn't take much for those things to overheat, and that would place a damper on your trip real quickly.
> 
> Tampa to Miami is more reasonable; 5 hours with traffic. But Florida's going to get tricky again...
> 
> Miami to Savannah is an 8 hour drive. Yes, this is entirely ridiculous. No, you will not want to do this drive at this point in the trip. And yes, you also risk getting hit by a hurricane or a tropical storm here.
> 
> Savannah to Washington, DC is supposedly a 10 hour drive. However, you'll be taking the illustrious Interstate 95 the entire way. The thing about I-95 is that it gets clogged with traffic in the middle of nowhere for no reason whatsoever, simply because everyone on the East Coast has to get to that highway for indecipherable purposes. It will likely take you 12 hours to make this leg of the journey.
> 
> At this point, you will have spent 135 hours in the RV. That's five full 24-hour days and fifteen hours. That's if you're lucky and don't run into any weather or mechanical problems.
> 
> DC to Philly is 3 hours, and Philly to NYC is 2 hours.
> 
> Summary: this trip is doable in three weeks, but it will require so much driving, be so expensive, and be subject to so many variables (like if you get caught speeding, and some highway patrolman thinks that you look suspicious, so he decides to detain you for a few hours while they get all your paperwork in order), that it really stretches the bounds of feasibility.
> 
> As mentioned above, you could do most of the country east of the Mississippi River in the same amount of time, and have a lot more time to go to different places, or enjoy the places that you are at. You could even go to Canada if that's an option. The US has a lot to offer, so perhaps think about scaling down the scope of the trip, while increasing the density.


Thanks man. Would you say I am mad if I told you that I am much more in mood to drive across your magnificent country after you posted your summary? ))
No, just kidding, but Ill do it, definately, but I think its better to leave Florida for my next trip to the US.


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## geogregor

ADCS said:


> Note - that's 13182 km. 390 mi is 628 km.
> 
> I'm not sure you can understand how incredibly boring drives across the Great Plains are unless you've done a few. You'll be exhausted from these trips.


On a contrary I find driving across the great plains absolutely fascinating. It's so different from anything we know in Europe. I love every hour of great plains driving. I just play some good rock or country, relax and let my mind flow along.



> There is no good way to get from Denver to Salt Lake City. That may seem a little outlandish to you, but it is true. As a result, you get a crushing 9 hour drive, but with a few hills along the way to break up the scenery.


Few hills?? That's what I call understatement 



> Salt Lake City to San Francisco is an oppressive 12 hour drive. For the first 2/3 of it, you get to drive across Nevada, which also consists of absolutely nothing.


There are some mountain ranges along the way in Nevada, many of them higher than most mountains in Europe bar Alps 



> Thing about driving in the United States is that in the West, there is a whole lot of empty space, or agricultural fields. That's what makes driving across it such a chore.


For me all this empty space makes driving there so fascinating. 



> LA to Las Vegas is much more reasonable; a breezy 4-5 hours depending on traffic. Of course, at this point, with that much traveling, I'm not sure you'd even want to be up for gambling or drinking, especially considering the driving you have ahead of you.


It is also pain to drive on the weekends when half of LA population seems to be driving to Vegas. Considering it is only 2x2 and plenty of "left lane masters" I would avoid it on Friday night.



> Albuquerque to Dallas is a long, long 11 hour drive. Once again, there is practically nothing along this route. I have personally driven the Amarillo-Fort Worth section several times, and I can tell you - you'll wonder how a place so desolate and boring could exist in a state as populous as Texas.


There are quite few distractions. There is the famous Cadillac Ranch just outside Amarillo, there are few ghost towns along the old Route 66, there are bits of the route itself, there is Palo Duro Canyon State park near Amarillo, there is Barbed Wire Museum in McLean. I love all those small peculiar attractions (like Idaho Potato Museum where I bought my favorite T-shirt)



> Dallas to New Orleans is a 9 hour drive factoring in traffic. It's much more interesting given that trees start to enter the picture again, and population densities begin to rise back to more familiar levels.


Funny, but I found this stretch rather boring 



> Also, remember the time of year you're going to be driving - late August is prime hurricane season on the Gulf Coast and in Florida. It would be really unfortunate if you got caught in an evacuation or had your progress impeded because of a hurricane that wreaked havoc across your route.


It is just beginning of the season, Sept, Oct and Nov are the most risky months. Still, tropical storms might happen and slow your progress even if there is no hurricane. 



> On a side note, I'd also like to point out what the non-catastrophic weather situation will be at this time of year in much of the country. From Los Angeles to Las Vegas, the high temperature will likely be 105ºF, or 40ºC. In Las Vegas, the temperature can very easily get to 115ºF, or 46ºC. From that point onward, all throughout the Southwest and the South, until you get out of South Carolina, you can expect the high temperature to be greater than 95ºF, or 35ºC. In the Southwest, it will simply be incredibly hot. In the Southeast, it will be hot and oppressively humid. Not only will this make being outside for any appreciable length of time uncomfortable, but it will put an enormous amount of stress and wear on your RV's motor. It doesn't take much for those things to overheat, and that would place a damper on your trip real quickly.


100% agree with all this warnings. August is awfully hot and you have to be careful with pushing your RV to hard. 




> Summary: this trip is doable in three weeks, but it will require so much driving, be so expensive, and be subject to so many variables (like if you get caught speeding, and some highway patrolman thinks that you look suspicious, so he decides to detain you for a few hours while they get all your paperwork in order), that it really stretches the bounds of feasibility.
> 
> As mentioned above, you could do most of the country east of the Mississippi River in the same amount of time, and have a lot more time to go to different places, or enjoy the places that you are at. You could even go to Canada if that's an option. The US has a lot to offer, so perhaps think about scaling down the scope of the trip, while increasing the density.


It is going to be hard (if not impossible) trip but if had to rearange it I wouldn't confine myself just to east of Mississippi. That would be missing a point of transcontinental travel. I would make my way from NYC to California and South Western US and then drive straight back to NYC.
Something like:
NYC > St Louis > Denver > SF >some fun in California > Las Vegas > Grand Canyon and other National Parks (Zion, Bryce) > back towards NYC


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## ADCS

geogregor said:


> On a contrary I find driving across the great plains absolutely fascinating. It's so different from anything we know in Europe. I love every hour of great plains driving. I just play some good rock or country, relax and let my mind flow along.


Different strokes for different folks 



> Few hills?? That's what I call understatement


True, but I-80 across Wyoming goes through a basin, so it's not mountainous driving like I-70 in western Colorado.



> There are some mountain ranges along the way in Nevada, many of them higher than most mountains in Europe bar Alps


True, but it's basin-and-range and very arid. I could see it being appealing to more introverted people, but for me, it would take a little work and imagination to make the drive worthwhile. Knowing some of the history of the area before I left would help, for example.



> For me all this empty space makes driving there so fascinating.
> 
> 
> It is also pain to drive on the weekends when half of LA population seems to be driving to Vegas. Considering it is only 2x2 and plenty of "left lane masters" I would avoid it on Friday night.


Excellent point.



> There are quite few distractions. There is the famous Cadillac Ranch just outside Amarillo, there are few ghost towns along the old Route 66, there are bits of the route itself, there is Palo Duro Canyon State park near Amarillo, there is Barbed Wire Museum in McLean. I love all those small peculiar attractions (like Idaho Potato Museum where I bought my favorite T-shirt)


True, but to hit all those "tourist traps" up, you'd have to budget a little more time than I think is available in this plan. I don't know how you could do all of this without keeping on the Interstates the whole time.



> Funny, but I found this stretch rather boring


It can be, but the food starts becoming so much better around here, and the trees are incredible after spending so much time on the plains.



> It is just beginning of the season, Sept, Oct and Nov are the most risky months. Still, tropical storms might happen and slow your progress even if there is no hurricane.


At the same time, Katrina hit in late August. The season peaks on September 10th. I'd say that late July through late September is the most dangerous period, and that's from growing up on the Gulf Coast.



> 100% agree with all this warnings. August is awfully hot and you have to be careful with pushing your RV to hard.


I'm not sure many can understand this without actually having been in these kinds of temperatures, and knowing what kind of effect that has on vehicles.



> It is going to be hard (if not impossible) trip but if had to rearange it I wouldn't confine myself just to east of Mississippi. That would be missing a point of transcontinental travel. I would make my way from NYC to California and South Western US and then drive straight back to NYC.
> Something like:
> NYC > St Louis > Denver > SF >some fun in California > Las Vegas > Grand Canyon and other National Parks (Zion, Bryce) > back towards NYC


Agree to disagree on this one. If you just want to go across the continent and back, I'd say fly across, rent a car there, and fly back. It would be much more cost-effective. If you actually want to see the country, though, it's better to take it in chunks.


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## Squiggles

I rather like driving across plains and farmland. I drive from Madison to New Orleans every year, and the stretch from Rockford to St. Louis (I-39 and I-55) is wonderful. Relatively little traffic, open stretches and simplicity.


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## siamu maharaj

I absolutely HATE driving thru that area. It's so tiring and almost puts me to sleep. I was driving thru there just a week ago and it was so bad I turned 180 halfway coz I couldn't take the torture anymore. But guess there are people who enjoy it.


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## Suburbanist

A positive aspect of driving on relatively homogeneous areas is that you get to see the progressive change in the landscape, albeit small.

At least that was the impression I got driving once from Cheyenne, WY to Kansas City, MO


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## Lijman

..


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## g.spinoza

^^Are there service stations or one has to carry supplemental gasoline aboard?


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## siamu maharaj

Lijman said:


> You guys think driving across the great plains is boring? Come here to Australia and try driving across the Nullarbor Plain:
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> http://207.45.188.234/~fctg/biketrip/Nullarbr.htm


I actually find some of these roads interesting to drive on. Whether I'd feel the same if I were there I don't know. Most probably I'd enjoy it then get bored after a couple of hours. But can't say for sure.


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## I-275westcoastfl

I hate boring flat roads, driving in the mountains is always the best.


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## Professor L Gee

I-275westcoastfl said:


> I hate boring flat roads, driving in the mountains is always the best.


If I must drive through rural areas, I prefer mountainous terrain as well. Keeps me alert. Especially if there are some nice curves.


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## Lijman

..


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## Suburbanist

Straight routes are good for developing self-control and patience. There is no point in speeding or being "aggressive" because it will take long to complete the journey anyway.

When I lived in Wyoming, I drove I-80 to Salt Lake City couple times. Must admit the flats around the continental divide were tiring sometimes, but it was cool as near the UT border things get more interesting. There is an interesting feature of I-80: it runs dozens of miles through a gigantic basin that splits the Continental Divide in 2


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## g.spinoza

^^ In Italy roads that could be built straight due to terrain (mostly in the Po valley) are built with curves on purpose to keep driver's attention high.


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## ChrisZwolle

You have these wide valleys in places like Nevada with a lot of optical illusion when it comes to estimating distances. For instance, you cross a summit and see the other end of the valley, and you think "that's a good 5 - 10 minutes of driving" when it turns out to be 30 or 40 minutes.


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## ADCS

Suburbanist said:


> A positive aspect of driving on relatively homogeneous areas is that you get to see the progressive change in the landscape, albeit small.
> 
> At least that was the impression I got driving once from Cheyenne, WY to Kansas City, MO


Then, there are the changes you don't see - like the 5,152 foot (1570 m) drop in elevation from Cheyenne to KC. That, admittedly, is one of the cool parts about driving across the Great Plains: you climb a mile in elevation while perceiving the route to be essentially flat. Only way to tell is by either looking at elevation signs, or becoming short of breath more quickly as you go west.

Another cool fact about the region - during the Cretaceous period, practically the entirety of the Plains had been covered in water.


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## Paddington

I-275westcoastfl said:


> I hate boring flat roads, driving in the mountains is always the best.


Yo' state got no mountains... Or hills even. All Florida roads flat and straight. :laugh:


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## Interstate275Fla

Paddington said:


> Yo' state got no mountains... Or hills even. All Florida roads flat and straight. :laugh:


Not quite. Interstate 75 in Florida is mostly flat and straight except for one section north of Tampa south of Exit 293 (CR 41 near Dade City) to Exit 301 (FL 50 and US 98 near Brooksville).


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## I-275westcoastfl

Paddington said:


> Yo' state got no mountains... Or hills even. All Florida roads flat and straight. :laugh:


I also hate driving in Florida except on the long bridges lol. Actually I-10 in north Florida is very hilly going west. I also live 100ft above sea level and I'm only a few miles from the water so I live on a giant hill. =P But obviously I meant in another state, I'm going to the mountains tomorrow will be at 5500ft at one point. :banana:


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## Paddington

I was looking at a job in Brevard County (though not anymore, FL wasn't for me). The driving there was awesome. :drool:


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## FM 2258

I-275westcoastfl said:


> I also hate driving in Florida except on the long bridges lol. Actually I-10 in north Florida is very hilly going west. I also live 100ft above sea level and I'm only a few miles from the water so I live on a giant hill. =P But obviously I meant in another state, I'm going to the mountains tomorrow will be at 5500ft at one point. :banana:


That stretch of 10 surprised me. I had no idea Florida had hills and rolling terrain like that. It was nice.


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## ChrisZwolle

The Sunshine Skyway Bridge turns 25 today. It opened to traffic on April 20th, 1987, after the original bridge (1954) collapsed in 1980.


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## siamu maharaj

Are those round things to break the flow of water?


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## ChrisZwolle

Probably to deflect ships that are out of their course.


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## Jschmuck

^^ those circle objects are called dolphins and as Chriszwolle identified they stop/deflect large out of control vessels from hitting the bridge.


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## Scba

Which is a good idea, because the original collapse was due to a ship striking a support


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## Interstate275Fla

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Sunshine Skyway Bridge turns 25 today. It opened to traffic on April 20th, 1987, after the original bridge (1954) collapsed in 1980.





siamu maharaj said:


> Are those round things to break the flow of water?





ChrisZwolle said:


> Probably to deflect ships that are out of their course.





Jschmuck said:


> those circle objects are called dolphins and as Chriszwolle identified they stop/deflect large out of control vessels from hitting the bridge.





Scba said:


> Which is a good idea, because the original collapse was due to a ship striking a support


Yes, I remember the day the new Sunshine Skyway Bridge opened to traffic. The dedication ceremonies were held in February 1987 and the new bridge opened two months later in April 1987.

My Sunshine Skyway page at Interstate275Florida.com has all the details, including pictures of the dedication ceremony and the open house where everyone got to walk the new bridge for the first (and only) time. After all, the new Sunshine Skyway is a part of Interstate 275 and US 19.

Two years later, the approach highways leading to the new Sunshine Skyway were reconstructed to interstate highway standards enabling Interstate 275 to be completed in the Tampa/St. Petersburg area, save for the twin set of drawbridges (Structure A) which were demolished and replaced with high level bridges similar in height to the Howard Frankland Bridge in 1994.

The original 1954 Sunshine Skyway did have a fender system to deter wayward ships. It was taken down in 1971 when the southbound span - the bridge that was hit by the _Summit Venture_ in 1980 - was opened due to extensive disrepair. The Florida DOT at the time decided to use clusters of wooden piles secured by a steel cable on either side of the main channel support piers of the old Sunshine Skyway.


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## Squiggles

Went to Milwaukee yesterday and took a few pictures along the way. Pardon the quality; I was riding in the back seat for part of the trip.


Interstate 39/90/94 north of Madison









Roadwork ahead where I-39/90/94 intersects U.S. 51. The bridge is being repaired, I believe.









Exit to U.S. 151 and the east side of Madison









8+ lanes of I-39/90/94 approaching the Badger Interchange, where I-94 breaks off in a more easterly direction and WI-30 spurs into eastern Madison









The Badger Interchange









I-94 in rural Jefferson County, east of Madison. 









I-94 in Waukesha County, suburban Milwaukee









I wanted a few shots of the Marquette interchange, but unfortunately our route didn't take us that way. Maybe next time.


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## sonysnob

Those are pretty good shots considering they were taken from the backseat of a car! Mustn't have been using your cell phone. :cheers:


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## HAWC1506

Is it me, or do American highways have tighter (and shorter) curves than European highways?

Most European highways I've seen have long, gradual curves with a big radius that makes driving feel safer and more comfortable.


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## ChrisZwolle

The main difference appears to be the usage of tunnels in hilly and mountainous areas. European freeways have many more tunnels, straightening them out, while roads like I-40 in North Carolina, I-5 in Oregon or I-77 in West Virginia are very twisty.


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## Rail Claimore

HAWC1506 said:


> Is it me, or do American highways have tighter (and shorter) curves than European highways?
> 
> Most European highways I've seen have long, gradual curves with a big radius that makes driving feel safer and more comfortable.


Depends on the state and when that particular stretch of interstate was built. Post-1970 interstates have the standards that European motorways do as far as curvature and other aspects of engineering go. I-75 between Chattanooga and Atlanta is a good example.


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## Squiggles

sonysnob said:


> Those are pretty good shots considering they were taken from the backseat of a car! Mustn't have been using your cell phone. :cheers:


I have a Nikon D40. I cropped the images so you can't see the dashboard or the rearview mirror reflecting my brother's very ugly hat.


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## sonysnob

HAWC1506 said:


> Is it me, or do American highways have tighter (and shorter) curves than European highways?
> 
> Most European highways I've seen have long, gradual curves with a big radius that makes driving feel safer and more comfortable.


It can be hard to judge that by looking at photos. A good telephoto lens will significantly alter the severity of the curve relative to a flatter lens. 

Some curves are sharper than others tho


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## Road_UK

ChrisZwolle said:


> The main difference appears to be the usage of tunnels in hilly and mountainous areas. European freeways have many more tunnels, straightening them out, while roads like I-40 in North Carolina, I-5 in Oregon or I-77 in West Virginia are very twisty.


That differs per country. Most motorways in mainland Europe do have more tunnels, but we do have a lot of twisty motorways, with steep crawler lanes for freight. In Germany, the A3 between Köln and Frankfurt is a good example, but also the A5 at Kassel and the A8 between Munich and Salzburg. France has its share, especially in the Auvergne, and in the UK, they don`t know any different. (M25 north, M1 Yorkshire, M20 in Kent are good examples)


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## brewerfan386

Why should those euro's have all that construction fun... fear not:


> I decided to take a vacation day on Friday to check out progress on I-69. I am not an expert, but I am having a hard time seeing how the SR 68 to US 231 section will open in 2012 as scheduled. I decided to venture down some gravel roads and covered the entire length (as much as possible).
> 
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original quote by user *mukade* link: http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4855.msg148586#msg148586
Images courtesy of HighwayExplorer.com


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## brewerfan386

part 2


> The scale of this project is amazing. I thought *70 -80 miles* was long, but when you see all the men and machinery operating along the whole length of this thing, the scale sinks in. I think this would be considered a long project even by 1960s and early 1970s standards as even then it was common to see 20-30 mile sections being built at a time.
> 
> This is where I am seeing a problem as so much paving will have to be done over so many miles toward the tail end of this year. Not much of the road is yet paved today. A lot of the road isn't even close to final grade and some of it is still in earth-moving stages. Most bridges are well along, but some are barely started. If this opens up in 2012, it will be pretty amazing, but on the other hand a lot has changed since my last look at it in late October, 2011.
> 
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original quote by user *mukade* link: http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4855.msg148659
Images courtesy of HighwayExplorer.com


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## desertpunk

*I-30 and US 59 stack at Texarkana TX*


US 59 stack by jczart, on Flickr


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## desertpunk

*I-95 thru Jacksonville* _(sorry if repost)_


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## bogdymol

via airliners.net


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## geogregor

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Did you happen to make it up to Tennessee? Only 2 hours or so north and very worth it! I love the highways in Atlanta, I've driven through there quite a few times, the size never fails to impress me. I get a rush driving through those massive highways at 80mph/125km/h, probably the only major city where all the traffic can do such speeds all the way through the city center. Those tolls are so cheap!


Yes, I did go to Chattanooga, Lynchburg and then to Nashville.
Freeways of Atlanta are really impressive but system of only one ring road and all the major routes going through the city is not the most effective. I heard that traffic jams can be epic in Atlanta.
On the downtown connector traffic slowed down to something about 50mph even if it was not during the rush hour. 
80mph? It had to be middle of the night when you did it


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## ChrisZwolle

The Atlanta metropolitan area grows by 100,000 people each year, and infrastructure spending has been impressive from time to time, but was generally unable to keep up with population = traffic growth. 

Traffic volumes outside the I-285 are sometimes just as high as in downtown. Atlanta grew into a multi-hub city in the past decades, and traffic volumes actually decreased quite significantly on the Downtown Connector, while they exploded on I-75, I-85 and I-285, especially in the northern half of the metro area. 

Atlanta is a statistical outlier due to its very low density, it's considerably less dense than the next 10 or 20 least dense major metropolitan areas. Considering Atlanta's traffic patterns are somewhat comparable to Houston, it should have expanded its hub and spoke system. It was a major mistake to not construct a second beltway in the 1970's/1980's.


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## Suburbanist

^^ MARTA expansion is supposed to take care of that  

j/k


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## I-275westcoastfl

geogregor said:


> Yes, I did go to Chattanooga, Lynchburg and then to Nashville.
> Freeways of Atlanta are really impressive but system of only one ring road and all the major routes going through the city is not the most effective. I heard that traffic jams can be epic in Atlanta.
> On the downtown connector traffic slowed down to something about 50mph even if it was not during the rush hour.
> 80mph? It had to be middle of the night when you did it


Well this is true lol. You have to time it right to make it through downtown doing that. Generally from 11am-2pm or after 7pm you can make it through with no issues! I would only slow down when my phone showed police ahead or if I visibly saw police in the distance, for the most part I was going with the flow of traffic though. However I should add it takes some lane changing, but I'm Polish so you know how we drive.  

I love driving the mountain roads of Chattanooga or I-24 to Nashville is just awesome!

This video the speeds were 70-85mph.


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## AUchamps

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Atlanta metropolitan area grows by 100,000 people each year, and infrastructure spending has been impressive from time to time, but was generally unable to keep up with population = traffic growth.
> 
> Traffic volumes outside the I-285 are sometimes just as high as in downtown. Atlanta grew into a multi-hub city in the past decades, and traffic volumes actually decreased quite significantly on the Downtown Connector, while they exploded on I-75, I-85 and I-285, especially in the northern half of the metro area.
> 
> Atlanta is a statistical outlier due to its very low density, it's considerably less dense than the next 10 or 20 least dense major metropolitan areas. Considering Atlanta's traffic patterns are somewhat comparable to Houston, it should have expanded its hub and spoke system. It was a major mistake to not construct a second beltway in the 1970's/1980's.


You mean this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Perimeter


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## hoosier

ChrisZwolle said:


> It was a major mistake to not construct a second beltway in the 1970's/1980's.


OR, the region could not destroy its environment, adopt efficient land use policies and invest in mass transit. 

You cannot build yourself out of congestion. Atlanta is a premier example of this. Its freeways are 10+ lanes and they still get more and more clogged with traffic.


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## hoosier

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ MARTA expansion is supposed to take care of that
> 
> j/k


Who said that? NOBODY. Building more roads, destroying more land, and jeopardizing the air and water quality of the region is not the answer.


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## I-275westcoastfl

hoosier said:


> OR, the region could not destroy its environment, adopt efficient land use policies and invest in mass transit.
> 
> You cannot build yourself out of congestion. Atlanta is a premier example of this. Its freeways are 10+ lanes and they still get more and more clogged with traffic.


Well the reason they have so many lanes and still have traffic problems is because of the few alternatives. If you have a select few roads for all the cars to pack onto then you get bad congestion even with plenty of lanes. My metro has the same issue.


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## ChrisZwolle

> You cannot build yourself out of congestion. Atlanta is a premier example of this. Its freeways are 10+ lanes and they still get more and more clogged with traffic.


Atlanta has not opened any new freeway mileage since there were approximately 3 million people less. No surprise traffic congestion has increased there. It's one of the fastest growing metropolitan areas in the United States. 

You cannot eliminate all congestion, but simply sitting on your butt and do nothing is certainly not going to solve things. With that kind of "logic" Atlanta may as well have had only two four-lane freeways "because it's useless to build anymore". A growing city needs a growing infrastructure, it's as easy as that. No city can function without road infrastructure. 

Atlanta needs a large system of 4-lane HOT lanes, while preserving the existing "free" capacity. Not converting existing HOV into HOT lanes which is not going to add any capacity.


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## g.spinoza

Happy 75th birthday Golden Gate Bridge!


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## Road_UK




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## Professor L Gee

Jschmuck said:


> or call it I-41 between GB and the Zoo Interchange in Milwaukee because thats _*cheapest*_ and most logical


Pretty sure the blue shield signs cost the same whether the number on them is 41 or 55.


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## Jschmuck

> Pretty sure the blue shield signs cost the same whether the number on them is 41 or 55


yes, but if the road gets renamed to I-55 or other they want to have those labels all the way to Illinois...otherwords instead of between GB and Milwaukee, they want the new label between GB and Illinois.


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## Professor L Gee

Jschmuck said:


> yes, but if the road gets renamed to I-55 or other they want to have those labels all the way to Illinois...otherwords instead of between GB and Milwaukee, they want the new label between GB and Illinois.


Fair enough. A valid point.

Or, as I've seen proposed, just renumber it as a 3di and call it a day. x94 or something like that.

Ever since I-74 opened in NC, duplicating Interstate numbers over US routes has bothered me for some reason.


----------



## Xusein

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Atlanta metropolitan area grows by 100,000 people each year, and infrastructure spending has been impressive from time to time, but was generally unable to keep up with population = traffic growth.
> 
> Traffic volumes outside the I-285 are sometimes just as high as in downtown. Atlanta grew into a multi-hub city in the past decades, and traffic volumes actually decreased quite significantly on the Downtown Connector, while they exploded on I-75, I-85 and I-285, especially in the northern half of the metro area.
> 
> Atlanta is a statistical outlier due to its very low density, it's considerably less dense than the next 10 or 20 least dense major metropolitan areas. Considering Atlanta's traffic patterns are somewhat comparable to Houston, it should have expanded its hub and spoke system. It was a major mistake to not construct a second beltway in the 1970's/1980's.


When I was down there, people used to tell me "it takes half an hour to get anywhere". LOL. 

I think the problem is the huge localization, lots of local governments competing with each other and not enough concrete regional/state issues. Atlanta proper is less than 10% of the metro area so it doesn't have enough sway.


----------



## WeimieLvr

ChrisZwolle said:


> Atlanta has not opened any new freeway mileage since there were approximately 3 million people less. No surprise traffic congestion has increased there. It's one of the fastest growing metropolitan areas in the United States.
> 
> You cannot eliminate all congestion, but simply sitting on your butt and do nothing is certainly not going to solve things. With that kind of "logic" Atlanta may as well have had only two four-lane freeways "because it's useless to build anymore". A growing city needs a growing infrastructure, it's as easy as that. No city can function without road infrastructure.
> 
> Atlanta needs a large system of 4-lane HOT lanes, while preserving the existing "free" capacity. Not converting existing HOV into HOT lanes which is not going to add any capacity.


It's not like nothing has been done to improve congestion in Atlanta over the past 20 years. Actually Atlanta is not even in the top 10 worst traffic cities anymore, after years of being in the top 5 annually...so the changes that have occurred have apparently helped. 

In July the 10 main counties of the Atlanta region will vote on a regional transportation referendum to assess a one-percent sales tax for $6.14 billion in improvements, including several mass transit projects (http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections/atlanta-regions-6-14-1200104.html). Passage of this referendum is crucial to Atlanta's future growth and appeal.


----------



## sonysnob

geogregor said:


> Last bit for tonight.
> 
> Prices
> 
> Time to head back to the airport
> 
> I go to domestic terminal because that's where car rental center is located
> 
> I like clear signage where to go where you return a car
> 
> Car rental center, quite impressive structure.


I heart Atlanta. The Downtown Connector gets so close to Atlanta's CBD -- it makes for such a cool drive. Thanks for the pics.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

WeimieLvr said:


> It's not like nothing has been done to improve congestion in Atlanta over the past 20 years. Actually Atlanta is not even in the top 10 worst traffic cities anymore, after years of being in the top 5 annually...so the changes that have occurred have apparently helped.


Traffic patterns have changed quite a bit in recent years. About 10 years ago, up to 365,000 vehicles used the Downtown Connector, which has plunged to 290,000. That's an unprecedented drop in traffic volumes. And if traffic on the Downtown Connector has been reduced, it also must've been reduced on the radial routes. 

Like most major metropolitan areas, Atlanta is getting its job centers more dispersed, especially with the rise of sub centers like Buckhead, Marietta, the Airport or Sandy Springs. On I-75 and I-85, traffic volumes are higher outside the Perimeter than inside (apart from the downtown connector itself). However, the Perimeter is pretty bad, they're planning a major overhaul with HOT lanes on the northern side.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-95 Delaware*

The I-95 toll plaza in Delaware has been changed in 2011, with express lanes for E-ZPass users.

2010:









2011:


----------



## Professor L Gee

Never been through that toll plaza. Shunpiking FTW.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-49, Louisiana*

A photo of I-49 nearing completion in northern Louisiana (near Ida and the Arkansas state line).


LA 168, is great. by jczart, on Flickr


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> A photo of I-49 nearing completion in northern Louisiana (near Ida and the Arkansas state line).
> 
> 
> LA 168, is great. by jczart, on Flickr


Great shot of beautiful rural interstate. I really enjoy driving roads like this. Feel of spaciousness makes them so much more enjoyable than narrow and claustrophobic European freeways which are also increasingly surrounded by the noise barriers.


----------



## Tom 958

Not me. I prefer some variation-- a narrower typical median, but with forested islands every so often or where the topography suggests independent alignments for the two roadways. to me, it's prettier, and more interesting, and probably cheaper, too. I -49 has the same boring look throughout its length, apparently. And the interchanges take up way to much land.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Tom 958 said:


> Not me. I prefer some variation-- a narrower typical median, but with forested islands every so often or where the topography suggests independent alignments for the two roadways. to me, it's prettier, and more interesting, and probably cheaper, too. I -49 has the same boring look throughout its length, apparently. And the interchanges take up way to much land.


I don't like forested islands, they are just used as speed traps. It seems to be a rural interstate in a region with boring topography, there isn't much one can do to make it less boring. The excessive space is probably for future widening, even then if its a rural area it doesn't really matter, I'd prefer it to small European motorways any day.


----------



## geogregor

Some shots from my last trip. Mostly boring shots of typical interstate, with quite few shots on signage. I took them mostly to show Polish forumers typical US roads
I can't remember if this is I-75 south of Chattanooga or I-24 north of it.


















:lol:









I-65 in Kentucky






















































Rest area, quite handsome 









I like this signs telling me what I can eat on the next exit


----------



## AUchamps

geogregor said:


> Some shots from my last trip. Mostly boring shots of typical interstate, with quite few shots on signage. I took them mostly to show Polish forumers typical US roads


I-24 between Nashville and Chattanooga reminds me a lot of the Autobahn/Motorway between Dresden and Prague.


----------



## keokiracer

^^ Dude, did you really have to quote everything? :|


----------



## JackFrost

I-275westcoastfl said:


> I'd prefer it to small European motorways any day.


what do you mean with small european motorways? doesnt an american 2x2 motorway look the same as in europe?

i mean this motorway could easily be somewhere in europe, except for the median (and the truck )


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> I can't remember if this is I-75 south of Chattanooga or I-24 north of it.


I-75 has six lanes all the way to Atlanta.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

It's I-24! I absolutely loved driving I-24 north of Chattanooga, it is the best part of the drive to Chicago, only Atlanta comes close. The part where you get into the mountains and you can let go of the throttle and just let the slope carry you at 75mph with some good music its just perfect! Once you get closer to Nashville it gets flat and boring lol. I didn't get too many pics because I was enjoying the drive too much but it just gets really awesome like the pic below.










Some more pics..




























My fuel economy going downhill. 












Jack_Frost said:


> what do you mean with small european motorways? doesnt an american 2x2 motorway look the same as in europe?
> 
> i mean this motorway could easily be somewhere in europe, except for the median (and the truck )


Thats exactly it! Don't get me wrong I love European motorways, but like in Poland the new motorways have sound barriers on most of them. I can understand the reason but sometimes its overkill and makes you feel crowded in. Also the medians are usually tiny although its smart they have a barrier and we usually don't except in the cities. We get a steel cable barrier at best usually.


----------



## Road_UK

Ocala, FL (The Weekly Vice) - Ashley Holton, a 35-year-old Alabama woman was jailed Sunday after she allegedly masturbated in front of passing motorists on a busy Florida highway, then resisted arrest.

According to the Marion County Sheriff's Office, Holton was wearing nothing more than a pink shirt when she decided to pull her car over on Highway 484 near Interstate 75 and then masturbate in front of passing motorists.

Holton's display of self-love attracted the attention of motorists - several of which committed illegal U-Turns to watch her. Holton continued to engage in the sex act for a half hour before deputies arrived on scene.


Investigators say Holton kicked, bit and exposed herself to deputies who were attempting to arrest her. She continued to expose herself even after she was secured with handcuffs.

Holton was booked into the Marion County Jail and charged with battery on a law enforcement officer, disorderly conduct and exposure of sexual organs. Her bond has been set at $16,250.


----------



## JackFrost

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Thats exactly it! Don't get me wrong I love European motorways, but like in Poland the new motorways have sound barriers on most of them. I can understand the reason but sometimes its overkill and makes you feel crowded in. Also the medians are usually tiny although its smart they have a barrier and we usually don't except in the cities. We get a steel cable barrier at best usually.


okay, then I may misunderstood you, i did not realize you were talking about sound barriers. i thought you were talking about motorways in general. those sound barriers in poland are indeed annoying...


----------



## zaphod

That pic of I-49 in Louisiana is so cool. When I first saw the pic and title I assumed it was from 40 or 50 years ago, and the warm color of the photo didn't help. Then I realized there is no finished I-49 in northern Louisiana, yet...

Yes, the US interstate system is still growing :d


----------



## myosh_tino

geogregor said:


> Great shot of beautiful rural interstate. I really enjoy driving roads like this. Feel of spaciousness makes them so much more enjoyable than narrow and claustrophobic European freeways which are also increasingly surrounded by the noise barriers.


Noise barriers, called "sound walls" in California, are quite common on freeways in urban areas. Most freeways near where I live all have sound walls because they pass through mostly residential areas where road noise can be a problem. Some sound walls are located right next to the shoulder (breakdown lane) while others are set back from the edge of the freeway enough to where trees and shrubs can be planted.









From the AARoads Gallery


----------



## geogregor

myosh_tino said:


> Noise barriers, called "sound walls" in California, are quite common on freeways in urban areas. Most freeways near where I live all have sound walls because they pass through mostly residential areas where road noise can be a problem. Some sound walls are located right next to the shoulder (breakdown lane) while others are set back from the edge of the freeway enough to where trees and shrubs can be planted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the AARoads Gallery


But even in California sound barriers are nowhere near as prevalent as in Europe. I know it as I drove there extensively. In Poland nowadays they build sound barriers in the middle of the forrest, probably for the benefit of dear and foxes hno: (some suspect it is a way for some to make some extra money)
And even wit sound barriers American freeways don't feel as claustrophobic as European because they are much wider (especially in urban areas where sound barriers are used).
I just much prefer driving in the US. Especially on more rural freeways like the I-49 in Louisiana. 
Sorry all you lovers of European roads (especially those with the fetish of German autobahn) 

I just do prefer this:









Over this:











EDIT:
By the way, the I-49 just became my desktop background


----------



## AUchamps

keokiracer said:


> ^^ Dude, did you really have to quote everything? :|


Yes.


----------



## zaphod

I agree with what people are saying about sound barriers and to a lesser extent having lots of trees and greenery around roads.

I understand the reasoning that we should protect nearby neighborhoods from the constant din of passing cars. Sucks driving though, its so boring.

I enjoy driving through the western half of the US more than the eastern half. Up in Virginia you could be in the middle of metro DC and never see much more than trees from the side of the road.


----------



## mgk920

geogregor said:


> Some shots from my last trip. Mostly boring shots of typical interstate, with quite few shots on signage. I took them mostly to show Polish forumers typical US roads
> I can't remember if this is I-75 south of Chattanooga or I-24 north of it.


Yepper, as mentioned above, I-75 is six lanes from its interchange with I-24 in the Chattanooga area to metro Atlanta.



geogregor said:


> I like this signs telling me what I can eat on the next exit


These signs exist because of a USA federal rule that prohibits 'off-premises' advertising signs (AKA: billboards) within a certain minimum distance of an interstate. They were created as a compromise with business interests who felt, and I agree with them on this, that while billboards are ugly and detract from the scenery, they still provided a legitimately useful service to the traveling public. Billboards that existed before that law was passed or the date that an existing road was officially 'promoted' to being a full interstate were allowed to remain ('grandfathered'), but they can not be structurally changed or majorly repaired. For example, if a 'grandfathered' billboard blows over in a storm, it cannot be repaired and all parts of it must be removed.

It will be interesting, indeed, to see those multitudes of billboards along US 41 north of Milwaukee - and yes, I mean MULTITUDES! - progressively disappear once those snazzy signs are posted.

Mike


----------



## JackFrost

geogregor said:


> I just do prefer this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over this:


okay, so you like large medians? because thats the only difference between the 2 pictures here. i agree with you on the sound walls though.


----------



## geogregor

Jack_Frost said:


> okay, so you like large medians? because thats the only difference between the 2 pictures here. i agree with you on the sound walls though.


Yes, I do like the wide median. In general the US roads offer feeling of spaciousness which very few roads in Europe can match. I don't exactly know how to describe it. Once you drove in both continents you can clearly see the difference. There are exceptions on both continents but generally that's how it is. 
Of course that is my totally subjective personal opinion


----------



## Penn's Woods

g.spinoza said:


> Happy 75th birthday Golden Gate Bridge!





Road_UK said:


>


That's brilliant, but it's not on an Interstate.


----------



## geogregor

Where can I find full list of interstate highways under construction? I mean new roads not just upgrade of the old ones or redesignation of the US highways.

So far I know about I-49 in northern Louisiana and I-69 in southern Indiana. I also know there were some plans for extending I-540 on the Arkansas Missouri border, around Bella Vista. Is anything happening there?
Any more green-field interstates under construction anywhere?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-580 from Reno to Carson City is under construction too. Furthermore, I-269 around Memphis and I-22 near Birmingham are under construction as "Future Interstates".


----------



## geogregor

According to Wikipedia there is construction going on along the I-49 from Texarcana to Fort Smith, with some bridges already finished.

I couldn't find anything on the Arkansas DOT website.


----------



## Botev1912

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Don't get me wrong I love European motorways, but like in Poland the new motorways have sound barriers on most of them.


What is a sound barrier?


----------



## Xusein

^^










I don't really like them because they block the cities and scenery that you are driving through. Very common here in Connecticut.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

geogregor said:


> According to Wikipedia there is construction going on along the I-49 from Texarcana to Fort Smith, with some bridges already finished.
> 
> I couldn't find anything on the Arkansas DOT website.


There is some construction going on at the Texarkana eastern bypass, including an extension to US 71 north of Texarkana. 

I'm not aware of any further freeway construction between Texarkana and Fort Smith.


----------



## DanielFigFoz

Xusein said:


> ^^
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really like them because they block the cities and scenery that you are driving through. Very common here in Connecticut.


You can get see through ones too


----------



## ScraperDude

As I travel everyday from downtown to the burb of Lees Summit for work I traverse the Grandview Triangle everyday.

Here is a checklist of changes as of recent for 71 to 49 conversion and the interstate that feed into the Grandview Triangle. 
1. NB 71 has a new sign: End (space for 49 shield) continue on 71 North

2. Exits from Grandview Triangle(for those that don't know is the 71/435/470 interchange) to Joplin now have exit numbers.

3. New BGS on 470 WB / 435 SB / 435 EB / 71 SB that have a new space next to the left of the 71 shield to make room for the 49 shield.

4. The control city has been changed on some BGS from the South suburb of Grandview to 
Joplin.

5. Last weekend took a road trip to Tulsa and the I-49 mile markers are installed and turned facing away from the road. In some areas they can be seen from the frontage roads.


----------



## ScraperDude

Here is a pic I took today of the END 49 sign awaiting the shield


----------



## Nexis

Xusein said:


> ^^
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really like them because they block the cities and scenery that you are driving through. Very common here in Connecticut.


But living next to a highway is very loud and annoying....so residents which in CT are raped by the high property taxes deserve a little peace and quiet.... CT plans on capped I-84 and few other highways over the next few decades....along with other states. At least where Interstates or Major Highways run in cuts or depressions...


----------



## Paddington




----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> There is some construction going on at the Texarkana eastern bypass, including an extension to US 71 north of Texarkana.
> 
> I'm not aware of any further freeway construction between Texarkana and Fort Smith.


According to this site:
http://www.interstate49.org/

There are some bridges and junctions under construction around Fort Smith. I looked on Google earth and there is something visible east of current I-540. Is it some new Fort Smith bypass?


----------



## Jschmuck

> There are some bridges and junctions under construction around Fort Smith. I looked on Google earth and there is something visible east of current I-540. Is it some new Fort Smith bypass?


Yea, I-49 will be completely different allignment from I-540 south of I-40, obviously some of it is done...What helped was the closing of Ft. Chaffee a couple years ago as some of this completed road cuts through the closed base. So yes there is slow I-49 construction east of Ft. Smith.

Arkansas has a lot of new interstates approved and underconstruction; I-49, I-530 extension south of Pine Bluff to Monticello though it will open only as a 2 lane facility first, and I-69. I-49 is probably most difficult because of the terrain it is proposed to traverse. As others have mentioned I-49 by Texarkana is mostly complete.

BTW the new I-49 east of Ft. Smith will cross and connect with I-40 at the existing I-40/I-540 east interchange 3-level stack.


----------



## geogregor

Jschmuck said:


> Yea, I-49 will be completely different allignment from I-540 south of I-40, obviously some of it is done...What helped was the closing of Ft. Chaffee a couple years ago as some of this completed road cuts through the closed base. So yes there is slow I-49 construction east of Ft. Smith.
> 
> Arkansas has a lot of new interstates approved and underconstruction; I-49, I-530 extension south of Pine Bluff to Monticello though it will open only as a 2 lane facility first, and I-69. I-49 is probably most difficult because of the terrain it is proposed to traverse. As others have mentioned I-49 by Texarkana is mostly complete.
> 
> BTW the new I-49 east of Ft. Smith will cross and connect with I-40 at the existing I-40/I-540 east interchange 3-level stack.


How about bridge across the Arkansas River? Is it under construction? 
Any dates? When the Ft. Smith bypass is going to be finished?


----------



## Jschmuck

I don't have any schedule or dates on I-49 as funding is extremely tight and being approved in sections, but my feeling/belief about the schedule is 10 to 20 years. Same with any bridge over the Arkansas River.

I just found out that there is a tiny 2-mile section of the Bella Vista, AR bypass portion of future I-49 underconstruction southwest of the village, noticeable on google maps as well.

If you want to see other interstate construction of the other interstates i mentioned in Arkansas you can see some on Google Maps by the Pine Bluff area with the I-530 south extension under construction.

And then partially unrelated to interstate discussion is in the Springdale, Arkansas area US412 will bypass Springdale to the north of the city but will interchange with future I-49/I-540 with a 4-level stack.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The lack of funding and the subsequent snail's pace of non-tolled projects in the United States is appalling...  

If it was a toll road the entire road was likely constructed in 4 - 6 years.


----------



## geogregor

Few shots from I-79 heading north towards Pittsburgh


----------



## geogregor

Entering Pennsylvania



























Traffic was very light (much lighter than I expected but maybe because it was Saturday afternoon) and it was really pleasant route to drive

PS. Sorry for bugs on the windscreen


----------



## Penn's Woods

[rant on]
Gotta love those obscure control cities....hno:

If we insist on having signs with only one "control city," it could at least be some place people have heard of.

The choice of "Washington" for 70 west/79 north is particularly helpful to people who might be at that point trying to get to Washington, D.C.,...(because you'd actually want to take 70 east)
[rant off]


----------



## Tom 958

Penn's Woods said:


> [rant on]The choice of "Washington" for 70 west/79 north is particularly helpful to people who might be at that point trying to get to Washington, D.C.,...(because you'd actually want to take 70 east)
> [rant off]


They could've been cute and signed Washington PA for I-70 west and Washington DC for I-70 east. Or the same at the I-79-I-68 split. :lol:

This morning (or maybe late yesterday?), Georgia's first diverging diamond interchange was opened at I-285 and Ashford Dunwoody Road, one of the most heavily used service interchanges in metro Atlanta. They'd been working on it for a few months and had closed the one existing loop ramp already, but when I drove by on Saturday afternoon, the new, more direct westbound offramp had been cut through where the loop ramp had been, and the stone subbase was down. Sometime in the next 36 hours they completed paving and enough other works to open the interchange by the time I came through this morning.

I got off there and drove through it this afternoon, and it seemed to be doing OK. I didn't see any cars upside down or anything. But the day was still far from over. 

I'd been thinking... with the sidewalks on the bridge located between the two roadways, there ought to be a handrail on each side as a typical feature, just because it'd seem weird to be walking on the median. Here, though, they're going one better by putting an unjersey barrier on each side, providing real protection as well as assurance for the few pedestrians who might venture that way (it'd be about a 5 minute walk from the Dunwoody MARTA station to the sizable office buildings on the other side of 285). 

:cheers:


----------



## mgk920

geogregor said:


> Traffic was very light (much lighter than I expected but maybe because it was Saturday afternoon) and it was really pleasant route to drive
> 
> PS. Sorry for bugs on the windscreen


This interchange (I-70/79 east split) is being rebuilt to eliminate that slow loop ramp.

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*El Monte Busway, Los Angeles*

The El Monte Busway is a HOV facility (soon HOT facility) along I-10 / San Bernardino Freeway east of Downtown Los Angeles. It was originally a bus-only facility, but gradually opened up for HOV users during the 1970's. They are currently converting it into a HOT lane with a maximum toll of $ 1.40 per mile. What's interesting about the busway is that traffic drives on the left between I-710 and Downtown.


----------



## Paddington

Isn't NJ the state that's notorious for odd, local control cities, like "Netcong" instead of "New York"? :hahaha:


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Indeed. Signs for New York or Philadelphia are rare. (Although I'd guess Netcong is used on 80 westbound, so New York wouldn't work.)

But my native state is far from the only offender in the Northeast. The state I live in now's pretty bad.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Westbound I-80 in Pennsylvania has many important metropolitan areas as control cities;

Hazleton
Bloomsburg
Bellefonte
Du Bois
Clarion
Sharon

Not unimportant towns like Cleveland.


----------



## Road_UK

Cleveland is about the only town/city I`ve heard of...


----------



## ScraperDude

but you gotta give Ohio credit for signing New York on EB 80


----------



## Penn's Woods

Road_UK said:


> Cleveland is about the only town/city I`ve heard of...


That's Chris' point. I-80 begins in New Jersey, very close to New York (City) and runs, eventually, to San Francisco. Cleveland is the first place on it west of the New York area with more than maybe 20,000 people (forgetting about Youngstown, Ohio, which is already pretty far west) because it was routed relatively straight across Pennsylvania rather than passing through any place important.

Most states would have no problem putting Cleveland westbound and New York eastbound as "control cities," even though the distance is nearly 500 miles. Pennsylvania, instead, prefers to use a sequence of much smaller (but closer and in-state) places. I don't see why we can't have more than one place per sign....

That "Most states..." is also part of the problem: there's no consistency from one state to the next. I'm sure a European trying to navigate here by destinations would find it maddening. Since Americans tend to follow route numbers instead, it doesn't really matter. What does matter, in my opinion, are distance signs - signs giving several destinations and the distance to them. Pennsylvania's stingy with those as well. I was driving from Philadelphia (the state's largest city) to Harrisburg (the state capital) one Sunday on US 322 (which, granted, is not the quickest or most obvious route; it's like deliberately using a British A-road when a motorway would serve the same route) and didn't see one sign giving the distance to Harrisburg. They're only 100 miles apart.  Virginia, for example, is much better about that sort of thing.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ScraperDude said:


> but you gotta give Ohio credit for signing New York on EB 80


If memory serves, you're from Columbus?

Ohio is good at this sort of thing. But why, on the Ohio Turnpike, is Strongsville the control city for I-71 southbound?


----------



## Professor L Gee

Speaking of control cities, I still don't understand how Wilmington and Philadelphia are never on signs on I-95 in Maryland.

Sticking with I-95, I have seen Miami signed as far north as Richmond.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Hear, hear!


----------



## ScraperDude

Penn's Woods said:


> If memory serves, you're from Columbus?
> 
> Ohio is good at this sort of thing. But why, on the Ohio Turnpike, is Strongsville the control city for I-71 southbound?


Formerly Columbus yes.  Now i'm in Kans-ass City, home of the left lane slow drivers.

Hmm I'm trying to think of where that would be signed..... 
You know what... It is signed for Strongsville on WB Ohio TP and EB Ohio TP is signed Cleveland/Columbus at the 71 interchange. 
The ONLY explanation I can think of behind that is ODOT possibly assumes one would exit the TP via 77SB (control cities: Cleveland/Akron) to 271SB (control city: Columbus) 
Because 80/71 interchange would take someone out of the way if they were bound for Columbus from the WB-TP. The shortest route would be 80wb to 77sb to 271sb to 71sb. 

Now that I think about it most of 271SB has Columbus as a control city SB. 
IE US 322 and 271sb interchange or 90NB and 271SB


----------



## Xusein

Nexis said:


> But living next to a highway is very loud and annoying....so residents which in CT are raped by the high property taxes deserve a little peace and quiet.... CT plans on capped I-84 and few other highways over the next few decades....along with other states. At least where Interstates or Major Highways run in cuts or depressions...


Most of the richest towns are not near major highways here. Only one I can think of is the Merritt Parkway that basically is in a middle of a forest. 

The interstates in CT go through the worst cities in the state actually.


----------



## Xusein

Oh, speaking of control cities in other states. Actually CT is good when it comes to that...perhaps TOO good. It shows I-84 and I-384 going to Boston and Providence respectively, although both do not go there (I-90 connects to I-84 though). If you take I-384 to Providence from Hartford, you have to drive through dangerous old roads in the middle of nowhere. Actually I think the lack of a direct highway connection between Hartford and Providence is why I never really been to that city, along with the fact that I don't know anyone there. :lol:

Some of the older signs in the Danbury area on I-84 west don't show a control city though...they just say "I-84 WEST - NY STATE". The newer ones say Newburgh.


----------



## hoosier

ChrisZwolle said:


> Atlanta has not opened any new freeway mileage since there were approximately 3 million people less. No surprise traffic congestion has increased there. It's one of the fastest growing metropolitan areas in the United States.
> 
> You cannot eliminate all congestion, but simply sitting on your butt and do nothing is certainly not going to solve things. With that kind of "logic" Atlanta may as well have had only two four-lane freeways "because it's useless to build anymore". A growing city needs a growing infrastructure, it's as easy as that. No city can function without road infrastructure.


You can't be responding to my post. Where did I say that nothing should be done? I opined rightfully that building more sprawlways is not a good solution- better land management and mass transit are the best ways to avoid congestion and transport people.

Atlanta could have smaller freeways if it had a good metro/commuter rail system and a higher density built environment. But the region decided to widen its ample freeway system to ten plus planes and cater exclusively to the car. Well, they got more congestion and sprawl as a result.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

High density and high mass transit usage is not a solution to shorter travel times, quite the opposite actually. Manhattan (34 square miles) has longer average commuting times than Los Angeles County (4750 square miles), not to mention less congested and more sprawled out cities like Dallas or Houston. 

93% of Atlanta's employment is outside the Downtown / Uptown area and that is why mass transit will never reduce travel times or even provide a remotely competitive mode of transport to the car. Right now there's a bill on the table to spend over 50% of transportation funding to mass transit, which 1% of the population uses. Of course, transit-advocates will say this is a smart way to spend public resources.


----------



## Suburbanist

Most high-density areas have extremely long commute times. Even with lots of transit.

Even in Europe, the average time a transit user takes on his/her commute is way above the average time of a car commuter.

In part that is the result of many long-distance subsidized train commutes in many countries, but also sheer design limitations of transit networks as we know them. As in: walk 10 min to stop, wait 5 min for bus, ride bus for 8 min, enter subway station and wait 4 min, ride subway 15 min + walk 15 min to workplace... voilà: 53 min commute. But misleading activists will discount that on "at least you get fit" or "at least you can meet real people while travelling" or "you can celebrate city life and feel alive instead of caged in a care." Pure b--shit.


----------



## wkiehl101

mgk920 said:


> This interchange (I-70/79 east split) is being rebuilt to eliminate that slow loop ramp.
> 
> Mike


Seeing that sign makes me kinda homesick.

It's about time they finally started working on that project; they've been talking about it for, geez I forget how many years now.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> High density and high mass transit usage is not a solution to shorter travel times, quite the opposite actually. Manhattan (34 square miles) has longer average commuting times than Los Angeles County (4750 square miles), not to mention less congested and more sprawled out cities like Dallas or Houston.
> 
> 93% of Atlanta's employment is outside the Downtown / Uptown area and that is why mass transit will never reduce travel times or even provide a remotely competitive mode of transport to the car. Right now there's a bill on the table to spend over 50% of transportation funding to mass transit, which 1% of the population uses. Of course, transit-advocates will say this is a smart way to spend public resources.


Are you talking about the commutes of people who live in Manhattan, or the far-larger number of people who work there? At any rate, I'm not sure Manhattan - one of the most densely populated places in the US - and Los Angeles County - literally half desert and forest - is a fair comparison. If you took the whole New York metropolitan area and spread it out to Atlanta densities....


----------



## diablo234

Nexis said:


> I didn't realize New Orleans was that bad , wasn't the issue with the Big Easy?


New Orleans was mostly developed at around the same time period as Boston and Philadelphia, so most of the city is geared to pedestrians rather than cars. In certain popular neighborhoods such as the French Quarter, parking is expensive and hard to find.


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## ChrisZwolle

Xusein said:


> I find it hard to believe that 26 million people use transit in the corridors you mentioned, but if you have any sources, that would be nice. Either way, plenty of people who take public transportation also have cars, it's not really an either or situation.


As usual, Nexis compares the number of daily boardings to the amount of population, and then claims public transport has an edge over driving.

Which of course is not the right way to compare transit usage with car usage. Most people use the car more than once daily (5 - 7 one-way trips per household on average) and someone using transit to and from work counts for 2 boardings. Someone who uses a bus+train counts for 4 boardings. Besides that, people travel more than just to-and-from work, as a matter of fact only about 30% of the daily freeway traffic volumes are commuters to and from work.

In other words... the usual overinflated figures of transit usage. 

As you can see at the U.S. Census factfinder transit usage amongst commuters to and from work in greater New York is 30.5%.

This is ONLY to and from work and does not include other types of trips, where public transport is less likely to be used. The actual transit usage (passenger miles) is therefore lower than that figure.


----------



## geogregor

I don't know what Nexis is smoking but I want to try it. Even in London (UK) with vastly better developed public transport than in "coastal Northeast" the share of public transport and driving are almost equal at around 40% both (the rest is walking and cycling)
Do you seriously want me to believe that more people use PT in Washington or Baltimore than in London???


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## jchernin

This argument is silly. Who cares if more people drive or more take public transportation? Fact is, both are useful and have a place in our cities/society.

Public transit isn't for suckers. It's a very useful tool to get around - in many cases it is more practical than driving. In other cases, driving makes more sense.

Also, there is a direct correlation of transit ridership, and service offered. In other words, the better the transit coverage and frequency, the more people will ride it. As more and more cities build and expand their transit networks, more people will take transit.

It's interesting to see what the future will bring. New technologies will bring about new possibilities. For instance, self-driving cars have the potential of making the road network essentially a vast PRT system, with cars driving to pick you up on demand (called from your smartphone perhaps).

Cars and trains are just tools. Who cares which is 'bigger' (better)?


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## diablo234

jchernin said:


> This argument is silly. Who cares if more people drive or more take public transportation? Fact is, both are useful and have a place in our cities/society.
> 
> Public transit isn't for suckers. It's a very useful tool to get around - in many cases it is more practical than driving. In other cases, driving makes more sense.
> 
> Also, there is a direct correlation of transit ridership, and service offered. In other words, the better the transit coverage and frequency, the more people will ride it. As more and more cities build and expand their transit networks, more people will take transit.
> 
> It's interesting to see what the future will bring. New technologies will bring about new possibilities. For instance, self-driving cars have the potential of making the road network essentially a vast PRT system, with cars driving to pick you up on demand (called from your smartphone perhaps).
> 
> Cars and trains are just tools. Who cares which is 'bigger' (better)?


Finally, someone who is talking some sense here. :cheers:

Let's face it, depending on cars for transportation will not work for everybody (esp senior citizens, people without drivers licenses, or the means to afford a car. or are unable to drive because of health reasons) however public transportation is also not for everybody (such as salespeople/electricians/plumbers/contractors who have to travel to different locations within the same city to meet with their clients or to get to their jobsite). That's why it is absolutly crucial to have both a decent public transit system and a decent road network and anyone who says otherwise is full of sh*t and needs to get their head examined.


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## geogregor

jchernin said:


> Cars and trains are just tools. Who cares which is 'bigger' (better)?


I absolutely don't care. And I'm all for development of both.
But I do care if someone gets facts wrong and tries to build his thesis around it.

I understand that some PT enthusiasts in the US may feel a bit abandoned by the most of society and the mainstream media but it is not reason for using false facts in their arguments for better PT.


----------



## sonysnob

Nexis said:


> Its actually 19.4 Million....I used the wrong APTA numbers...it could be slightly higher i only did the major systems...it could rise to 38.6 Million by 2030 due to Gas and Population increases... NYC alone is 10 million , the suburbs NJ - NY - CT another 3 million...includes the Satilite cities like Newark , Stamford , etc
> 
> http://www.apta.com/resources/statistics/Documents/Ridership/2012-q1-ridership-APTA.pdf


The public transit vs. highway debate seems so tired. It always seems that the people who like the bus always just blindly argue why everybody should be herded onto the bus, and the people who like highways always state that the way out of congestion is to pave the world.

In the future, pt is probably going to become more prevalent in the US, but I wouldn't expect a radical change in behavior, and the car will likely still be the dominant mode of transport.


----------



## AUchamps

keokiracer said:


> What does that actually have to do with it? I'm guessing you're pro-PT. Well, if you think the 700 million for the A4 (will be used by 100.000+ cars everyday) is much: have a look at some (failed) PT plans in NL.
> 
> All I have to say is Noord-Zuid lijn, Betuweroute, HSL. Want more?
> 
> And the A4 is currently U/C


A4 has more holes in it then swiss cheese. Only took 50-60 years to build the entire motorway. Meantime, costs have skyrocketed for construction while alternative transportation options became more practical.


----------



## keokiracer

AUchamps said:


> Only took 50-60 years to build the entire motorway.


 Correction: it takes about 5 years to build, it took 50 years of talking... And besides the environmental hippies no one's proud of that.

PS: We're going off-topic here


----------



## AUchamps

keokiracer said:


> Correction: it takes about 5 years to build, it took 50 years of talking... And besides the environmental hippies no one's proud of that.
> 
> PS: We're going off-topic here


I'm just saying, in this day in age with environmental hippies in all Western countries that know how to use the legal system to delay highways, it's better to go with Public Transit. Path of least resistance. The same reasons A4 was delayed is the same reasons that the Outer Perimeter in Atlanta will never be built. Environmental Hippies and middle/upper class suburbanites who don't want new highways to be built.


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## Professor L Gee

Daniel295 said:


> What are HOV lanes?
> You have to have a minimum number of persons on a car to travel on them?!
> __________________


Correct. Sometimes referred to as "carpool lanes."


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## ScraperDude

And depending on which metro area you live in they (HOV lanes) are usually useless to the masses. Which is why I guess South Florida converted the ones on I-95 to HOT lanes. When I lived there the HOV were usually empty with a few stray cars here and there and of course the single occupied cars who decide they can't abide by rules. Maybe on other interstates in other cities they work as intended?


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## ChrisZwolle

Los Angeles has the highest amount/percentage of carpoolers, but the lanes carry only 1,300 vehicles per peak hour on average. That's about 40% lower than the general purpose lanes.


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## Paddington

I've heard that in Washington DC, the HOV lanes work pretty well, probably because of all the liberals there who believe in that stuff. People there even prostitute themselves out by the side of the road, for commuters looking for a faster trip to work. They call it "slugging". And with fewer rapes than you would expect. :yes:


----------



## Professor L Gee

ScraperDude said:


> And depending on which metro area you live in they (HOV lanes) are usually useless to the masses. Which is why I guess South Florida converted the ones on I-95 to HOT lanes. When I lived there the HOV were usually empty with a few stray cars here and there and of course the single occupied cars who decide they can't abide by rules. Maybe on other interstates in other cities they work as intended?


For some odd reason, people are scared of them.
Where I grew up, they had just built HOV lanes as I was learning to drive. First in Norfolk, then in Hampton and Newport News. What so few people seemed to realize is that, outside of rush hour, anyone could use those lanes. Or maybe everyone was scared to miss their exit, I dunno....


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## ChrisZwolle

HOV restrictions vary by region. For instance virtually all HOV lanes in the Los Angeles metropolitan area have a 24/7 HOV restriction, while they have only a rush hour restriction in the San Francisco Bay Area, and many other metropolitan areas. The L.A. system is the best used overall, but most other HOV facilities have significant spare capacity, so that is why you see them being converted into HOT lanes, to maximize the use of the existing roadway capacity, while preserving the free-flow privilege for HOV users. 

The nation's best used HOV facility is the Harbor Transitway along I-110 in Los Angeles. It has 4 lanes and carries 56,000 vehicles per day. However, it is still significantly below the usage of the general purpose lanes. If it was as busy as the GP lanes, it would have carried 80,000 or 90,000 vehicles per day, especially considering there are no semis on HOV lanes.


----------



## Suburbanist

Paddington said:


> I've heard that in Washington, the HOV lanes work pretty well, probably because of all the liberals there who believe in that stuff. People there even prostitute themselves out by the side of the road, for commuters looking for a faster trip to work. They call it "slugging". And with fewer rapes than you would expect. :yes:


The problem with Washington metro is that it has a sector or an entire freaking 2-digit highway that is entirely classified as HOV on peak times. Quite unacceptable on my standards.


----------



## myosh_tino

Paddington said:


> I've heard that in Washington, the HOV lanes work pretty well, probably because of all the liberals there who believe in that stuff. People there even prostitute themselves out by the side of the road, for commuters looking for a faster trip to work. They call it "slugging". And with fewer rapes than you would expect. :yes:


In the San Francisco Bay Area, this is called "Casual Carpooling" and it is gaining in popularity. There are designated areas (usually around BART [Bay Area Rapid Transit] and other transit stations) where people can look for and give rides to strangers. Yes, I know that sounds odd but it does work, especially if it means the driver can use the carpool lanes and cross bridges at reduced toll rates ($2.50 versus $5-6).



Suburbanist said:


> The problem with Washington metro is that it has a sector or an entire freaking 2-digit highway that is entirely classified as HOV on peak times. Quite unacceptable on my standards.


I believe Paddington was talking about Washington state not Washington DC. I don't know of any HOV-only freeways in the state of Washington.

Edit: Just noticed that Paddington clarified which Washington he was referring to.


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## Penn's Woods

^^Slugging does happen in the Washington, D.C., area. Even non-"liberal" parts.

And the segment of I-66 between the Beltway and the G.W. Parkway (in the not-particularly-liberal-especially-in-1982 state of Virginia) has been HOV-only, during rush hours, since it opened in 1982. One of the first HOV restrictions, if not the first, in the country.


----------



## Professor L Gee

Penn's Woods said:


> And the segment of I-66 between the Beltway and the G.W. Parkway (in the not-particularly-liberal-especially-in-1982 state of Virginia) has been HOV-only, during rush hours, since it opened in 1982. One of the first HOV restrictions, if not the first, in the country.


And it is comparatively uncrowded during rush hour, according to Scott Kozel's site. Since it's 2x2 through Arlington, just imagine if there were no HOV restrictions on the road... :nuts:

The very first HOV facility in the country, only a few miles to the southeast, was built on I-395 and now extends south on I-95 through Prince William County.








(Source: Wikipedia user Mariordo)


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## diablo234

There are even plans to extend the reversible HOV lanes even further south along I-95 to Fredericksburg.



Penn's Woods said:


> ^^Slugging does happen in the Washington, D.C., area. Even non-"liberal" parts.
> 
> And the segment of I-66 between the Beltway and the G.W. Parkway (in the not-particularly-liberal-especially-in-1982 state of Virginia) has been HOV-only, during rush hours, since it opened in 1982. One of the first HOV restrictions, if not the first, in the country.


The main reason why carpooling and "slugging" are popular in Northern Virginia is because the DC Metro area has the worst traffic in the country (even surpassing Los Angeles), the fact that there is no room available for freeway expansion, and the fact that most job centers are clustered together in DC, Arlington, Tyson's Corner, Alexandria, etc which enable carpooling and slugging to be more effective.


----------



## Professor L Gee

diablo234 said:


> There are even plans to extend the reversible HOV lanes even further south along I-95 to Fredericksburg.


So I've read. And there have been stubs at the south end for years now, so it was to be expected.


----------



## Xusein

When I was in the DC area last month, there was a MASSIVE construction in the middle of the Beltway, they are making HOT lanes in the middle of the highway. Unlike here in Hartford, the HOV lanes are actually used a lot there.


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## Professor L Gee

^^ How long have the HOV lanes in Hartford been open?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

diablo234 said:


> There are even plans to extend the reversible HOV lanes even further south along I-95 to Fredericksburg.


Yep, there are plans to convert it into a HOT facility (tolls) and widen the reversible to 3 lanes. This will accommodate long-distance commuters with reliable travel times - at a price.


----------



## Paddington

I'm so glad the Midwest doesn't have HOV lanes. :smug:


----------



## Professor L Gee

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yep, there are plans to convert it into a HOT facility (tolls) and widen the reversible to 3 lanes. This will accommodate long-distance commuters with reliable travel times - at a price.


True, to an extent. Aside from the price of buying an E-ZPass if they don't already have one, carpoolers (minimum of 3 per car) can use them for free. Those who travel with 2 or fewer will shoulder the load of toll revenue.

The most glaring oversight of this project, however, is the fact that everyone who uses the Express Lanes (as they're called up there) MUST be an E-ZPass customer. Since I-95 is a major travel route, there are ostensibly thousands of drivers from points south of VA that may want to use these lanes. The problem is that nobody south of VA has any partnership with E-ZPass (whether membership or mutual agreement), so they won't get to take advantage of the free lanes.

Instead, they'll get a letter in the mail and a bill. :hm:


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## ChrisZwolle

There are plans for interoperability between SunPass and E-ZPass though.


----------



## Professor L Gee

Paddington said:


> I'm so glad the Midwest doesn't have HOV lanes. :smug:


Minnesota has tons of them, all in the Twin Cities.



ChrisZwolle said:


> There are plans for interoperability between SunPass and E-ZPass though.


NC is talking about it too. I haven't seen any such plans from anywhere else, though, like SC and GA.


----------



## mgk920

Professor L Gee said:


> Minnesota has tons of them, all in the Twin Cities.


The only ones that I know of in the Great Lakes area are on I-394 between MN 100 and I-94 in downtown Minneapolis. These lanes are reversible.

Mike


----------



## Professor L Gee

mgk920 said:


> The only ones that I know of in the Great Lakes area are on I-394 between MN 100 and I-94 in downtown Minneapolis. These lanes are reversible.
> 
> Mike


I was quoting a source I found, but it turns out the majority of what they consider "HOV facilities" are bus-only shoulders. Technically those _are_ HOV facilities, but they fall outside the domain of what we're discussing here.


----------



## Xusein

Professor L Gee said:


> ^^ How long have the HOV lanes in Hartford been open?


I believe they were installed in the eighties.


----------



## brewerfan386

mgk920 said:


> The only ones that I know of in the Great Lakes area are on I-394 between MN 100 and I-94 in downtown Minneapolis. These lanes are reversible.


 There are also some on I-35W between DT Minne to just south of the Crosstown Commons.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Professor L Gee said:


> True, to an extent. Aside from the price of buying an E-ZPass if they don't already have one, carpoolers (minimum of 3 per car) can use them for free. Those who travel with 2 or fewer will shoulder the load of toll revenue.
> 
> The most glaring oversight of this project, however, is the fact that everyone who uses the Express Lanes (as they're called up there) MUST be an E-ZPass customer. Since I-95 is a major travel route, there are ostensibly thousands of drivers from points south of VA that may want to use these lanes. The problem is that nobody south of VA has any partnership with E-ZPass (whether membership or mutual agreement), so they won't get to take advantage of the free lanes.
> 
> Instead, they'll get a letter in the mail and a bill. :hm:


Is there still talk of tolling 95 in Virginia?


----------



## Professor L Gee

Penn's Woods said:


> Is there still talk of tolling 95 in Virginia?


So far, yeah.

And according to the comments in this article, you of course have people up in arms, saying "I'll take alternate routes!"

I'm extremely familiar with US routes 1 and 301 in Virginia. After a certain point, one would just be better off paying the toll on I-95 and maintaining 65+ mph. US 1 is becoming increasingly suburban between Fredericksburg and Richmond (read: stoplights galore).


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## ChrisZwolle

There is a difference what people say and what people actually will do. Many may say they will avoid the tolls, but if the average speed on the alternate routes drop to 30 - 40 miles per hour (or even less), you're better off paying the tolls. 

North Carolina also wants to toll I-95. I believe short-distance traffic may indeed avoid I-95, but I doubt if many people are willing to drive 200 or 300 miles on two-lane roads to avoid the tolls.


----------



## Professor L Gee

ChrisZwolle said:


> There is a difference what people say and what people actually will do. Many may say they will avoid the tolls, but if the average speed on the alternate routes drop to 30 - 40 miles per hour (or even less), you're better off paying the tolls.
> 
> North Carolina also wants to toll I-95. I believe short-distance traffic may indeed avoid I-95, but I doubt if many people are willing to drive 200 or 300 miles on two-lane roads to avoid the tolls.


Two-lane roads, few bypasses of cities and towns, stoplights. Not to mention the increase in gas used because of the more frequent starting and stopping.

Plus, I think I read that I-95 would only charge up to $2 per axle for the entire stretch between Fredericksburg and the NC border. Considering I've paid much more than that just to enter NYC via a bridge (and paid it again to leave), paying $4-8 to traverse an entire state doesn't sound so bad.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Toll-free Interstates (unlike all those New York-area bridges and tunnels, not to mention pre-Interstate toll roads) were built with Federal money and should (i.m.h.o.) remain free, just on principle. Yes, I understand we pay for them in other ways....

Former Governor (of Pennsylvania) Ed Rendell wanted to toll I-80 and was vetoed by the feds several times. It would be unfair, after that, to now allow Virginia and/or North Carolina to do it (but I didn't approve of it when it was a Rendell proposal either). And this isn't a partisan issue - current governor of Virginia's a Republican, Rendell's a Democrat - except insofar as...[self-censored, since I've complained recently about politics infecting this forum].


----------



## Professor L Gee

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^Toll-free Interstates (unlike all those New York-area bridges and tunnels, not to mention pre-Interstate toll roads) were built with Federal money and should (i.m.h.o.) remain free, just on principle. Yes, I understand we pay for them in other ways....
> 
> Former Governor (of Pennsylvania) Ed Rendell wanted to toll I-80 and was vetoed by the feds several times. It would be unfair, after that, to now allow Virginia and/or North Carolina to do it (but I didn't approve of it when it was a Rendell proposal either). And this isn't a partisan issue - current governor of Virginia's a Republican, Rendell's a Democrat - except insofar as...[self-censored, since I've complained recently about politics infecting this forum].


There's a bit of difference when you talk about building a road but then paying to maintain that road in the future. If the Feds had the money to maintain roads, then I'd agree with you completely. But since they don't, I guess the states have to take drastic measures.

Often thrown around is raising the gas tax, but that doesn't look to be a panacea for a few reasons:
1 - Mention raising taxes and all hell breaks loose. Especially in VA.
2 - Quite a few developments, such as increases in mass transit usage (and decreases in driving) and yearly improvements in automobile fuel economy, actually work against the gas tax idea.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Any thoughts on the impact on other Interstates? I'm visualizing truckers detouring up to 81. 81 through Winchester on a Sunday is enough to make you wish we had a German-style Sunday truck ban.

Hmm. Now that I think of it, there's at least one place in France - or is it Germany? - where trucks only pay a toll. I'm sure Chris knows (Maybe I'm thinking of having read about trucks diverting through Alsace on the (free) A35 to avoid a toll in Germany?)


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## Professor L Gee

For most travelers from the Eastern Seaboard in the southeast, especially those heading to DC on up, I-81 is way too far out of the way to be a viable detour.

Speaking of I-81, I remember plans for tolled truck lanes on the route. I don't know if that's still on the table or not.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Penn's Woods said:


> Hmm. Now that I think of it, there's at least one place in France - or is it Germany? - where trucks only pay a toll. I'm sure Chris knows (Maybe I'm thinking of having read about trucks diverting through Alsace on the (free) A35 to avoid a toll in Germany?)


Yes, the German LKW-Maut. Trucks pay for every mile driven on an Autobahn and a few selected non-Autobahns. But it replaced other taxes (and it was of course a huge increase of revenue, otherwise they wouldn't do it). 

But that's Europe, where freeways are full of milking cows. In the United States, gas taxes barely cover regular maintenance and minor projects you can't toll. There really is no other way to finance large projects other than with tolls or local tax raises nowadays. I'd like to mention the transportation vote in metro Atlanta next month.


----------



## Xusein

ChrisZwolle said:


> North Carolina also wants to toll I-95. I believe short-distance traffic may indeed avoid I-95, but I doubt if many people are willing to drive 200 or 300 miles on two-lane roads to avoid the tolls.





Penn's Woods said:


> Former Governor (of Pennsylvania) Ed Rendell wanted to toll I-80 and was vetoed by the feds several times. It would be unfair, after that, to now allow Virginia and/or North Carolina to do it (but I didn't approve of it when it was a Rendell proposal either). And this isn't a partisan issue - current governor of Virginia's a Republican, Rendell's a Democrat - except insofar as...[self-censored, since I've complained recently about politics infecting this forum].


Rumors of tolling I-95 here in Connecticut comes around every now and then, but it never happens. 

Unlike those roads, it was once a toll road in the past. I like that we don't have tolls unlike Mass or NY so I'm not for it. If you don't have an EZpass, tolls are a pain. And it would likely be the barrier system which would just add to gridlock on that mess of a highway anyway. I also heard of ideas of putting a toll booth on the borders but I don't know how that would work.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-95 Trenton*

The FHWA issued a FONSI (Finding of No Significant Impact) for the I-95 project near Trenton, New Jersey. The I-95 project consists of the widening of the freeway from 4 to 6 lanes in Pennsylvania and the replacement of the Scudders Falls Bridge across the Delaware River, which forms the boundary between Pennsylvania and New Jersey.

The new bridge will be 3 times as wide as the current bridge, which is a 1961 four-lane bridge with no shoulders. The new bridge will feature 2x3 lanes, a bicycle/pedestrian path, shoulders, 1 auxiliary southbound lane and 2 auxiliary northbound lanes. This connects to the six-lane section of I-95 in New Jersey. The section in Pennsylvania has space for 2x4 lanes due to projected left shoulders.

The project cost is $ 322 million and will be paid for by tolls by the 76,000 daily users of this bridge.


----------



## Nima-Farid

toll bridges again


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^I use that one a few times a month, traveling between here and my parents'.

But it's easy to avoid; there are lots of free bridges in the area:

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=40.259093,-74.846935&spn=0.073229,0.131664&t=m&z=13


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## ChrisZwolle

I think it says a lot about the current budgets that even relatively minor projects like these have to be tolled in order to get the funding. What's $ 300 million for states like PA and NJ? Pocket money.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^If I'm not mistaken, that bridge belongs to the Delaware River Joint Toll Bridge Commission (which also runs toll bridges farther upriver, on US 202, I-78, US 22, I-80....) so they've sort of been doing us a favor all these years by not charging for it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yep, it belong to that commission. I wonder how this is possible because the bridge is a post-1956 Interstate Highway.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Says here ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scudder_Falls_Bridge , under History) it wasn't originally part of the Interstate system. That's not explained, unfortunately, but I think 95 may have been originally supposed to go through Trenton.


----------



## Xusein

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think it says a lot about the current budgets that even relatively minor projects like these have to be tolled in order to get the funding. What's $ 300 million for states like PA and NJ? Pocket money.


Both of those states are broke and their governments won't raise taxes so I guess this is the only way to go, bar larger federal funding.

You get what you pay for.


----------



## Professor L Gee

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^Says here ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scudder_Falls_Bridge , under History) it wasn't originally part of the Interstate system. That's not explained, unfortunately, but I think 95 may have been originally supposed to go through Trenton.


They discuss it here pretty well, along with the fate of original I-95 through NJ.



> Pennsylvania initially sought to route I-95 across the Delaware River along the Trenton Toll Bridge, then north through Trenton along the Trenton Freeway. New Jersey, however, opposed this routing on the basis of the physical and capacity constraints on the four-lane bridge and freeway. The two states jointly investigated three alternative river crossings: Scudder Falls (west of Trenton), existing Trenton Toll Bridge-Trenton Freeway (through downtown), and Biles Island (east of Trenton). After further study, the two states approved the Scudder Falls alignment in 1960.


----------



## jchernin

Speaking of bridges, the new SF Bay Bridge east span's cable compaction is now complete. They are now installing the suspender cables. The bridge is scheduled to open Labor Day 2013.
































http://www.mtc.ca.gov/news/current_topics/5-12/sfobb_cable.htm


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-35W Fort Wort, Texas*

Another "Everything's Bigger in Texas" project. I-35W in Fort Worth.






At downtown Fort Worth:

before:

image host


after:

free image hosting

at 121 freeway.

before:









after:










Bridge across the Trinity River.

before:









after:










North Fort Worth: from 4 to 16 lanes.

before:









after:


----------



## Trilesy

Spotted a Google Maps car today on I-275 in Cincinnati. Taking higher res pictures maybe? Current street view quality for Cincinnati really sucks...


----------



## Paddington

Epic. :applause:


----------



## jchernin

^ The Fort Worth freeway expansion looks absolutely ridiculous. Wayyy over the top.

Nice San Diego freeway video - exactly what a Southern Cali freeway should look like.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Holy shit I can't get over the highways in Texas, just amazing! I see a road trip to Dallas in the near future. I'm sure its changed big time even since I lived there 7 years ago.


----------



## Paddington

And Houston. :yes:


----------



## Nima-Farid

Proposed I-92 East-west Highway


----------



## Nexis

Nima-Farid said:


> Proposed I-92 East-west Highway


What a Boondoggle , whos going to pay for that highway we don't have the $$$ or so they say and Maine isn't in a position to build a Highway to Nowhere...and it seems to benefit Canadians more then Maine.


----------



## Nima-Farid

yeah it does and the cost can be paid by toll from canadian trucks and passengers.
also it connects Maine to Montreal which gives them a nice route to a big market.


----------



## Nexis

Nima-Farid said:


> yeah it does and the cost can be paid by toll from canadian trucks and passengers.
> also it connects Maine to Montreal which gives them a nice route to a big market.


But there's not a big market in Maine , this seems to be a shortcut for Canadian Truckers and seeing how opinions are most Anti-Highway I doubt this will get built even privately. New Englanders do not like to be used and abused... They had private projects in the past that have morphed into massive Boondoggles ... The Project is also wrapped in seediness in funding for studies , why should the public pay for a Private projects study?


----------



## Nima-Farid

But still, never say never and the situation of the highway is not beyond a proposal yet...
And it is good to see what locals think of such a massive project.


----------



## desertpunk

*I-11*

*Las Vegas - Phoenix Interstate Is inching Ahead*



> A measure applauded by Southern Nevada business leaders as a key to future interstate and international commerce is one step closer to passage after a joint committee of Congress inserted language officially designating a route between Phoenix and Las Vegas as Interstate 11.
> 
> The agreement reached Wednesday — 56 years to the day from when President Dwight Eisenhower signed the nation’s first surface transportation bill into law, effectively beginning construction of the interstate highway system — lists I-11 as a route designation in the amended Intermodal Surface Transportation Efficiency Act of 1991.
> 
> Passage of the legislation, which could come later today, wouldn’t provide funding for I-11, but it would put the route in line for federal dollars to upgrade U.S. 93 to interstate highway standards.
> 
> The designation is part of the $120 billion bill to renew transportation funding in the United States for the next two years. Current funding is due to expire this weekend.
> 
> Business leaders in Nevada and Arizona have backed the I-11 designation as the first stage in connecting Phoenix and Las Vegas, the two largest metropolitan areas not connected by interstate highway. But ultimately, I-11 could be a conduit for international commerce, connecting ports in Mexico with the Canadian border through Nevada.
> 
> Some state leaders are eyeing the designation of I-11 as a possible means of funding a four-lane interstate highway linking Las Vegas with Reno.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nexis said:


> What a Boondoggle , whos going to pay for that highway we don't have the $$$ or so they say and Maine isn't in a position to build a Highway to Nowhere...and it seems to benefit Canadians more then Maine.


Tolls!


----------



## Nexis

ChrisZwolle said:


> Tolls!



Still , with the history of Private lying and taking advantage of New Englanders this isn't going over so well... Mainers aren't as dumb as there southern US counterparts , so I don't see this project getting built. It goes through Eco-Senitive areas and through alot of peoples properties....


----------



## VoltAmps

Nexis said:


> Still , with the history of Private lying and taking advantage of New Englanders this isn't going over so well... Mainers aren't as dumb as there southern US counterparts , so I don't see this project getting built. It goes through Eco-Senitive areas and through alot of peoples properties....


It's a vital trade route and it will happen. You've proved your bias against highways time and time again. Its getting old

I see the same type of scenario happening here as it did in Detroit. Canada will front some cash to get the project built

Canada has proved that it will go to great lengths to get the proper infrastructure put in place to have its goods delivered to market


----------



## geogregor

Interstates of Pittsburgh, I love all those bridges.






























































Interstates of Pittsburgh.
I love all those bridges.


----------



## FM 2258

^^

Nice pictures.

I also like the Interstate 11 idea posted above.


----------



## Nima-Farid

yeah the construction of some parts started as early as mid-2000s


----------



## sonysnob

Nexis said:


> Still , with the history of Private lying and taking advantage of New Englanders this isn't going over so well... Mainers aren't as dumb as there southern US counterparts , so I don't see this project getting built. It goes through Eco-Senitive areas and through alot of peoples properties....


Mainers aren't as dumb as THEIR southern US counterparts.


----------



## Nima-Farid

sonysnob said:


> Mainers aren't as dumb as THEIR southern US counterparts.


They are not dumb to let the freeway be built or they are not dumb to protest the construction?


----------



## Nexis

sonysnob said:


> Mainers aren't as dumb as THEIR southern US counterparts.


Really , are we going to nitpick my spelling?


----------



## Nexis

VoltAmps said:


> It's a vital trade route and it will happen. You've proved your bias against highways time and time again. Its getting old
> 
> I see the same type of scenario happening here as it did in Detroit. Canada will front some cash to get the project built
> 
> Canada has proved that it will go to great lengths to get the proper infrastructure put in place to have its goods delivered to market


I'm not anti Highway , Just Anti Stupid Highway and against Private companies which have a seedy track record in this country when it comes to building. 9 out of 10 times they require massive public funding or take overs to complete a project. Canada seems to gain alot form this project more then Maine or New England in General....why can't they upgrade there highways and Rail network which could faster then hauling by Truck and 2x the Capacity.


----------



## VoltAmps

The fact of the matter is the current route is extremely out-dated. A new one needs to be built and if it creates jobs in Maine, and facilitates more trade then I gaurantee they'll be all for it. And with Canada involved it won't be "seedy" or "sneaky" like you mentioned. You only have to look to other trans-border projects between Canada like the new Detroit Bridge or the proposed Keystone pipeline. They are built to the highest standards.

I see this definitely moving along. When Canada throws it's weight behind an infrastructure project it usually gets built. Maine can either take it or leave it, but it will happen :lol:


----------



## VoltAmps

Nima-Farid said:


> They are not dumb to let the freeway be built or they are not dumb to protest the construction?


He was correcting his spelling...


----------



## mgk920

Nima-Farid said:


> Proposed I-92 East-west Highway


The biggest impediment to this, IMHO, will be with crossing the border for the transit. Over the past several years, things have gotten such with the border that most Canadian truck drivers will now stay in Canada in places where they previously would have crossed into the USA to avoid longer and/or more rugged parts of their own country (ie, transiting though nordern Minnesoda and Da YooPee of Michigan to avoid the über-rugged Canadian Shield area north of Lake Superior).

OTOH, whenever things do settle down with regards to the border and perhaps even a 'Schengen-style' setup can be put into place, such a highway will be very popular, indeed.

:yes:

And yes, there is a paralleling railroad, but I am uncertain of its current usage status.

Mike


----------



## Xusein

That projected route would go in the middle of nowhere and Maine is a poor state. 

There are probably less than 100,000 people in the corridor that it would travel through. 

Besides, a highway going from Burlington VT to Portland ME via Manchester/Concord NH would be more viable IMO. Call it I-92.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Xusein said:


> There are probably less than 100,000 people in the corridor that it would travel through.


There are tons of such freeways in the High Plains.


----------



## Road_UK

Grand Prix. Means you can drive as fast as you want.


----------



## keokiracer

^^ I thought about that too 
Thanks Chris


----------



## jchernin

I say #3. An HOT (High Occupancy Toll) facility means an extra source of money. Also, I've always felt HOT systems should include at least 2 lanes in each direction to allow passing. I would NEVER PAY to be stuck behind someone going slow.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I agree. HOT lanes must offer amenities GP lanes don't have such as uncongested traffic, higher speeds and passing options. Some reversible HOV lanes in the Houston area were recently converted to HOT lanes, but their usage appears to be pretty low. On the other hand many new HOT facilities do have 2 lanes each way, such as the I-95 in Miami, I-495 around Washington (Virginia side) and I-10 in Los Angeles.


----------



## Rail Claimore

ChrisZwolle said:


> The alternatives for widening I-405 in Orange County from SR-73 to I-605.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I reckon alternative #2 will be most popular. Toll lanes appear to be very unpopular, coming up with the "we've already paid for this road" mantra.


Alternative #3 is the one they'll probably choose. But the 405 really needs to be rebuilt and widened the most in south LA County.


----------



## diablo234

*Texas Nears Its Debt Limit for Transportation Projects*












> 07/10/2012
> Fort Worth Star-Telegram (Fort Worth, Texas)
> By Gordon Dickson, Fort Worth Star-Telegram, Texas
> 
> July 10--With billions of dollars worth of road work under way in Texas, it may be hard for drivers to believe that the state is running out of highway money.
> 
> But in just a few years, Texas will likely max out its debt limit for transportation projects, and by the end of 2014, it may have barely enough funding to maintain existing roads, officials said Monday. "People don't believe there's a crisis, because there are plenty of orange barrels," state Rep. Joe Pickett, D-El Paso, said during a live broadcast of a House subcommittee hearing on transportation funding. "So how long before the crisis? How long before that borrowed money dissipates and we don't have any more money to build?"
> 
> Elected leaders have authorized the Texas Department of Transportation to issue $17.3 billion in bonds for transportation projects. About $31.1 billion will be needed to repay that money over 25 to 30 years, said James Bass, the agency's chief financial officer. The agency's budget of $10.5 billion for the current fiscal year and $9.3 billion for next year are record highs. But Pickett said those figures don't paint an accurate picture of the state's future road funding. Instead, nearly $6.7 billion of that two-year total is proceeds from bonds and other one-time sources that won't be around later, he said.
> 
> The state's main source of highway funding, the 20-cent-per-gallon motor fuel tax, is generating only about $2.6 billion a year -- far less than adequate for a state that, by one estimate, needs $14 billion a year to keep up with growth in population and jobs. Bass said the state will likely enter into an "era of uncertainty" about highway funding in 2015. Lawmakers are looking at several options for increasing mobility and road maintenance funding during the next session of the Legislature, which starts in January.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The only viable alternative at this time:


----------



## jchernin

ChrisZwolle said:


> The only viable alternative at this time:


"No Cash" - No pun intended? :lol:


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Texas are against raising taxes so tolls are only going to keep coming.


----------



## Tom 958

ChrisZwolle said:


> The only viable alternative at this time:


LOLno. No feasible amount of tolling can produce that kind of money. And where would the money for toll infrastructure come from?

I hope there's a political crisis over this. :banana:


----------



## Xusein

It was going to happen sooner or later.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Progress of the new I-4 < > SR-618 connector in Tampa, FL










Imagery is from April 25th 2012.


----------



## zaphod

Any plans to build another connector in West Tampa?

Then the segment of SR 618 that cuts across downtown and the waterfront and separates the channel district would become superfluous and could be removed. And the road would be more or less contiguous with I-275 so southbound traffic wouldn't have to loop around and merge.

But running through the area near the university would be worse.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

If you remove the downtown section then all the traffic would merge onto the worst part of I-275/I-4. Traffic is bad enough as it is, it would be a nightmare then.


----------



## zaphod

Well then it wouldn't work I guess. Obviously I don't know the area well.


----------



## Nexis

Why traffic broadcasts exist by Jersey JJ, on Flickr


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^78/95 interchange, looking toward Bayonne/Jersey City?


----------



## Nexis

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^78/95 interchange, looking toward Bayonne/Jersey City?


Yup , closing one lane causes all that...


----------



## Suburbanist

That bridge needs a third lane


----------



## Frank IBC

Nexis said:


> Why traffic broadcasts exist by Jersey JJ, on Flickr


The bridge in the background - Newark Bay Bridge on 1-78/New Jersey Turnpike Newark Bay extension is not the bottleneck.

The actual bottleneck is the Holland Tunnels, 20 km to the northeast. After over 80 years, the only crossing connecting the Financial District with New Jersey, still has only two lanes in each direction. The situation is made worse by several at-grade intersections in Jersey City just before the tunnel, and an awful configuration of approach roads on the Manhattan side which leads to the traffic leaving Manhattan strangling the traffic that is entering from New Jersey.

This situation is particularly bad on Friday nights, when drivers are entering Manhattan for a night on the town while commuters are leaving Manhattan in the opposite direction. The photo above was taken around 6 pm.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It will be a reversible HOT facility. HOV vehicles can still travel for free.


----------



## Professor L Gee

Oh, they are keeping it reversible? I guess to stay compatible with I-395...

... but I wondered, since the lanes they're building on I-495 are not reversible (two each direction, IIRC).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's because beltways tend to be busy in both directions at the same time. Commuting has become much more diverse in the past 20 - 30 years, in some cases outbound traffic is heavier than inbound traffic. In case of Dallas, 80% of the traffic on I-35E does not have an origin or destination in Downtown.


----------



## Tom 958

ChrisZwolle said:


> This also delays the much-needed I-285/GA-400 interchange upgrade, along with several other road projects, but the bulk of the road projects included in T-SPLOST were relatively minor. Not much bang for your buck, so to speak.


While it's certainly true that the 285/400 interchange is screamingly obsolete and constitutes a bottleneck, it's also true that the real problem there is through capacity on 285 and 400. IMO, what's the point of spending $400m+ to ease the movement of traffic from one gridlocked freeway to another? Wait two years for a design, endure four years of disruptive construction, then still be sitting in traffic on my way from 400 to 85? No, thanks. hno:

Exchanging my sustainability advocate hat for my normal-Atlantan-who drives-too-much one, I couldn't help but notice how little this program would've done for me as a motorist.

Also IMO, the most unfortunate casualty of the T-SPLOST defeat is the I-285/I-20 west interchange upgrade. That project was sensibly scaled for the capacity of the freeways it connects (having been downscaled from the previvious 23 lanes-on-I-20 scheme), and would've eased a chronic bottleneck on the loop ramp from WB I-20 to NB 285. OTOH, I don't see why funding for it couldn't be scraped together from existing revenue sources.

I would've voted yes as a measure of support for doing something, anything, about Atlanta's ridiculous transport situation, but only because I was sure it'd be defeated. As it happens, I was working out of town on election day, and I couldn't muster enough enthusiasm to apply for an absentee ballot.


----------



## Nexis

I don't know if i posted this...oh well


----------



## CNGL

This post goes here:


Suburbanist said:


> This ought to be one of the most surreal/exotic natural scenarios you find around any highway anywhere in the World. I drove there once but not in favorable conditions (twilight). Surely want to travel there again


----------



## xzmattzx

Here's a couple pictures of updates on the future I-99. This is the section south of Painted Post, NY, heading southbound, From the exit near Presho.



















Here's some pictures of the scenery along the old US Route 15 that will be bypassed.


----------



## Xusein

Beautiful scenery. US15 is also the only real direct way from Buffalo/Toronto area to the DC/Baltimore area.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^US 219 might be shorter....

I'm not sure how I'd get from Buffalo to Washington - never had to do it. I could see swinging west and using I-79.

EDIT: check out what Google Maps recommends.


----------



## mgk920

*New section of interstate open*

A 13.5 km section of I-580 between Reno and Carson City, NV opened to traffic southbound on Thursday, 2012-08-23 and the northbound side is expected to open on Monday, 2012-08-27.

http://www.ktvn.com/story/19369749/i-580-southbound-now-open-to-traffic

https://maps.google.com/?ll=39.341732,-119.798355&spn=0.152408,0.220757&t=m&z=12

(The part opening is between Mount Rose Highway (NV 431) and Davis Creek Park (NV 429) in the Washoe Valley and includes a very impressive concrete arch bridge.)

:dance:

Mike


----------



## Suburbanist

*Contraflow plans for evacuation of New Orleans*

These are the official contraflow evacuation plans for New Orleans, should a total evacuation be in place


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Kinda crazy considering its around the same time 7 years ago Hurricane Katrina hit.


----------



## Scba

Hope none of the causeways and low bridges get swamped/wiped out like they did during Katrina


----------



## Penn's Woods

Haven't heard anything about an evacuation of New Orleans yet. And keep in mind it would take time; I remember hearing about the evacuation for Katrina on Saturday afternoon (I know that because I remember carrying Saturday shopping past a hotel where I could see the TV over the bar from the street, and CNN was reporting it...), while the storm hit on Monday.

Someone did say on the Weather Channel earlier that the levees have been improved since Katrina (I should hope so!) and they should be able to handle this; the concern would be more with low-lying outlying areas, particularly right along the coast.

If I lived in New Orleans, though, I'd be wondering if I should count on that....

But it's early.


----------



## diablo234

Scba said:


> Hope none of the causeways and low bridges get swamped/wiped out like they did during Katrina


The new I-10 Twin Spans bridge in New Orleans has been rebuilt to be higher then the original bridge. Also the Army Corps of Engineers have been very busy rebuilding the levees and adding a new storm surge barrier so if the next storm hits the area, the damage should not be as bad as Katrina (provided that they are adequately maintained).


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Do you (or anyone) know where the Harvey Canal is? Reportedly the Army Corps of Engineers is planning to close it Tuesday.


----------



## diablo234

Anyways here are the Hurricane Evacuation Contraflow plans for Texas if anyone is interested.

*Houston:*
I-10
US 290
I-45
US 59

*Corpus Christi:*
I-37


----------



## diablo234

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^Do you (or anyone) know where the Harvey Canal is? Reportedly the Army Corps of Engineers is planning to close it Tuesday.


The Harvey Canal is located in the namesake town of Harvey, on the West Bank across the Mississippi River from New Orleans.

http://neworleans.citysearch.com/profile/map/4416135/harvey_la/harvey_canal_lp.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-635 @ DNT Dallas*

The future layout of the I-635 / Dallas North Tollway interchange in Dallas, Texas.










I doubt if this interchange will be sufficient though... so many lanes and just a cloverleaf.


----------



## HAWC1506

My first video 

Washington, USA: I-90 reversible express lanes (eastbound). Seattle to Bellevue. Note, I was extremely surprised to witness such good lane discipline. It's rare to see that.

Enjoy!


----------



## HAWC1506

Another one from Washington, USA.


----------



## HAWC1506

^^Nobody had lane discipline in that video. Look at all the wasted road space in front of me on the right-hand half of the carriageway!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interesting traffic management, it looks Dutch, I'd love to see it in action once. They're also not too far apart. The most common mistake with this kind of traffic management is that they place the gantries too far apart, leaving gaps that are too long, which sort of makes the system useless because traffic changes faster than you reach the next gantry.


----------



## HAWC1506

ChrisZwolle said:


> Interesting traffic management, it looks Dutch, I'd love to see it in action once. They're also not too far apart. The most common mistake with this kind of traffic management is that they place the gantries too far apart, leaving gaps that are too long, which sort of makes the system useless because traffic changes faster than you reach the next gantry.


It does look a bit Dutch, but with terrible pavement, faded markings, dirty misaligned barriers and abysmal drivers :lol: 

The signs are made by Telegra in Croatia. The spacing is every 800 m. Ideal would be 500 m. The gantry spacing isn't too bad on I-5, but for I-90 and SR 520 there are gaps greater than a mile.

Operations wise, speed limits are hard to enforce (they aren't enforced actually, but are still restrictive). Compliance for lane control signs are not too bad, but occasionally you'll have an impatient driver speed down a closed lane.


----------



## HAWC1506

Another one, I-405 (Southbound) from Bellevue to Tukwila.


----------



## Nexis

*Interstate 95 North: Boxford MA to Salisbury MA
*


----------



## Nexis

*Interstate 95 South to Interstate 93 South: Lynnfield, MA to Medford, MA
*


----------



## siamu maharaj

ChrisZwolle said:


> Interesting traffic management, it looks Dutch, I'd love to see it in action once. They're also not too far apart. The most common mistake with this kind of traffic management is that they place the gantries too far apart, leaving gaps that are too long, which sort of makes the system useless because traffic changes faster than you reach the next gantry.


What do these gantries do?


----------



## Road_UK

He means matrix digital traffic information and/or lane guidance.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-70 / I-435 interchange, Kansas City*

The I-70 / I-435 interchange in eastern Kansas City was modified recently. A new C/D lane was constructed in the eastbound direction.


D5574_CM-460 by MoDOT Photos, on Flickr


D5574_CM-488 by MoDOT Photos, on Flickr


D5574_CM-491 by MoDOT Photos, on Flickr


D5574_CM-512 by MoDOT Photos, on Flickr


----------



## NFZANMNIM

>


Why isnt there a unified asphalt colour?


----------



## HAWC1506

siamu maharaj said:


> What do these gantries do?





Road_UK said:


> He means matrix digital traffic information and/or lane guidance.


Yep, see this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_traffic_management


----------



## ScraperDude

NFZANMNIM said:


> Why isnt there a unified asphalt colour?


I think this is a mixture of old/new asphalt as well as concrete. The C/D lanes Eastbound 435 to 70 are still as useless as the old ones. Traffic is still at a standstill in the interchange at rush hours(s) MoDot FAIL


----------



## HAWC1506

Here's another one of I-90 Eastbound, this time on the main carriageway (not the reversible express lanes). This one also travels a longer distance. I recorded this at 14:30 just before the afternoon peak begins. Enjoy.


----------



## Nexis




----------



## diablo234

Plans to possibly convert the downtown portions of I-10/I-45/US 59 in Houston into a giant roundabout.



> *Houston Chronicle: Here's a roundabout way to ease traffic congestion*
> _It's one of many alternatives officials are considering_
> Monday, September 3, 2012 | Updated: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 1:04am
> 
> Imagine driving into downtown Houston on interstates 10 or 45, or U.S. 59, and having to merge with all other incoming traffic onto an elevated, one-way traffic circle around the cluster of skyscrapers.
> 
> If downtown isn't your final destination, you would stay on the circle until you got to the point where your freeway picks back up. Otherwise, you would pick an off-ramp to exit.
> 
> For now, the concept - a first-of-its-kind roundabout fed by multiple major highways rather than surface streets - is one of many untested and undeveloped ideas that local transportation entities will entertain as they begin taking a more creative look at how to relieve congestion in the highly developed area inside Loop 610 in an era of declining state funding.
> 
> The Texas Department of Transportation stresses the preliminary nature of the idea, saying that studies may prove it's not even feasible. But it is one of the "innovative" solutions the agency is floating as transportation leaders realize using the state's limited funds to build more and more roads isn't the best or only way to solve congestion in Texas' major cities.
> 
> "That is currently on the table with a universe of options," Raquelle Lewis, transportation department spokeswoman in Houston, said of the Texas-sized roundabout.
> 
> Ted Houghton, chairman of the Texas Transportation Commission, which governs TxDOT, turned heads when he described the concept as both "fascinating" and "feasible" during a breakfast address in Houston in early August.
> 
> ...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Sounds interesting. There are a few real-life examples, for example the Osaka & Nagoya Ring Roads, as well as the Charleroi Ring Road in Belgium.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think I-10 through traffic should be excluded from the circular movement though.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-29 Kansas City*

Some aerials from the new Bond Bridge in Kansas City. It's a 7-lane cable-stayed bridge. It carries I-29 and US 71.


D5574_CM-273 by MoDOT Photos, on Flickr


D5574_CM-258 by MoDOT Photos, on Flickr


D5574_CM-246 by MoDOT Photos, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-495 Express Lanes*

The I-495 Express Lanes are nearly completed along the southwest side of the Greater Washington area. The construction in the median is Metro Rail.


Untitled by VaDOT, on Flickr


----------



## HAWC1506

The Washington State DOT recently completed a scheme to automate the reversal of the I-5 Reversible Express Lanes in Seattle.

In the past, gates and signs were manually switched and the entire reversal process took 45 minutes to an hour.

With the automation, it now takes less than 15 minutes. I've seen it done in 13.

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/i5/expresslaneautomation/


----------



## 1Filipe1

hi, i have a question, i usually dont comment on infrastructure threads, but i have a sincere question. Are american highways and road that bad? you hear on the news and political debates about how bad the roads are. In my area the highways are good, there all or mostly new no big issues, so i just wondered what maybe the rest of the country is like.


----------



## weava

1Filipe1 said:


> hi, i have a question, i usually dont comment on infrastructure threads, but i have a sincere question. Are american highways and road that bad? you hear on the news and political debates about how bad the roads are. In my area the highways are good, there all or mostly new no big issues, so i just wondered what maybe the rest of the country is like.


Most states have well kept interstates but many cities still have some of those early 1960s built downtown highways with tight curves/ short ramps need major updating. I think most of the bridges in the US that need replaced are on county/state roads.
I've been in 30 states and the worst roads I've been on are in Oklahoma, Iowa, and NYC.


----------



## HAWC1506

1Filipe1 said:


> hi, i have a question, i usually dont comment on infrastructure threads, but i have a sincere question. Are american highways and road that bad? you hear on the news and political debates about how bad the roads are. In my area the highways are good, there all or mostly new no big issues, so i just wondered what maybe the rest of the country is like.


There is a tendency for this country to favor new construction over maintenance. As a result a lot of existing roads are neglected while new ones are built. It's a political thing. Politicians have more to gain from "ribbon-cutting ceremonies" than a maintenance project, so they tend to favor new projects over maintenance.

That said, rural roads that I've seen aren't too bad. Urban roads however are costly to fix and might be neglected for several years. I-5 in Seattle for example was built in 1962 and hasn't been touched since. Same old pavement, same old structures, etc. In some places, the pavement is literally crumbling. Just a few months ago, a chunk of concrete was sent through the windshield of a car.

In general, American roads also tend to have lower construction quality and less effort is made to make things look good (straight barriers, well-maintained pavement markings, clean overpasses, good sub-bases to prevent sinking, consistent grades, etc.) than their European or Japanese counterparts.

They do their job transporting drivers, but isn't much to be proud of when it comes to engineering perfection.


----------



## jchernin

The new Bay Bridge East Span weight load is being transferred from the temporary false-work to the suspender cable














http://baybridgeinfo.org/









http://www.mtc.ca.gov/news/current_topics/8-12/SAS_activate_suspension.htm


----------



## diablo234




----------



## diablo234

ChrisZwolle said:


> The I-495 Express Lanes are nearly completed along the southwest side of the Greater Washington area. The construction in the median is Metro Rail.
> 
> 
> Untitled by VaDOT, on Flickr


Not to nitpik here but that is not I-495 in the photo, that is the Dulles Toll Road.


----------



## Penn's Woods

1Filipe1 said:


> hi, i have a question, i usually dont comment on infrastructure threads, but i have a sincere question. Are american highways and road that bad? you hear on the news and political debates about how bad the roads are. In my area the highways are good, there all or mostly new no big issues, so i just wondered what maybe the rest of the country is like.


You're in Bethlehem? Well, look at 22 through that area and realize that until 78 was opened, about 1989, 22 was the only way through from east to west. Those curves in Easton are ridiculous for an expressway. But you've also got 78. So, a vast difference in quality in the same county. Actually, American roadgeeks and truckers seem to have been giving consistently bad marks to Pennsylvania to years, but you say in your area the highways are good.... Which just shows that a lot of such opinions are based on impressions rather than evidence. (Europeans like to brag about how their roads are so much better than ours, but if you pick out the right road from over there - the French A25, say - you'll be like "what is this shit?" And Americans like to drool over the prospect of German Autobahns with no speed limits, but don't know about the traffic....)

And how are you, or anyone, measuring "bad"? Pavement quality, congestion, how old the signs are, when's the last time anyone pruned the trees so that the signs can be read, scenery, driving habits...? I think every system and every road has its good and bad points.

What I do take seriously is all the statistics you hear about out-of-date bridges, and the like. This country needs to be a bit less allergic to spending public money. How many people died in Minneapolis?


----------



## Penn's Woods

diablo234 said:


> Not to nitpik here but that is not I-495 in the photo, that is the Dulles Toll Road.


I was wondering what Metro line was in the middle of the Beltway.... (But I didn't look that closely.)


----------



## 1Filipe1

Penn's Woods said:


> You're in Bethlehem? Well, look at 22 through that area and realize that until 78 was opened, about 1989, 22 was the only way through from east to west. Those curves in Easton are ridiculous for an expressway. But you've also got 78. So, a vast difference in quality in the same county. Actually, American roadgeeks and truckers seem to have been giving consistently bad marks to Pennsylvania to years, but you say in your area the highways are good.... Which just shows that a lot of such opinions are based on impressions rather than evidence. (Europeans like to brag about how their roads are so much better than ours, but if you pick out the right road from over there - the French A25, say - you'll be like "what is this shit?" And Americans like to drool over the prospect of German Autobahns with no speed limits, but don't know about the traffic....)
> 
> And how are you, or anyone, measuring "bad"? Pavement quality, congestion, how old the signs are, when's the last time anyone pruned the trees so that the signs can be read, scenery, driving habits...? I think every system and every road has its good and bad points.
> 
> 
> What I do take seriously is all the statistics you hear about out-of-date bridges, and the like. This country needs to be a bit less allergic to spending public money. How many people died in Minneapolis?


I just said overall the roads in my area aren't bad. 22 near easton with the curves their repaving that area with all the curves, but the curves are horrible i hate them, and i much prefer to use 78 because of less traffic volume and i just prefer it for some reason. 22 actual pavement and such are not in bad condition, theirs lots of traffic, its typical for it to be a stand still on a regualr day, the road should be 3 lanes but overall the roads are good. On one of the interchanges of hellertown/bethlehem to 78 their redoing the road from 2 lanes total to 5 lanes total and turning lanes, so roads here overall aren't bad


----------



## henry1394

http://acidcow.com/cars/3112-gasoline_tanker_explosion_collapsed_a_bridge_42_pi.html


----------



## Penn's Woods

1Filipe1 said:


> I just said overall the roads in my area aren't bad. 22 near easton with the curves their repaving that area with all the curves, but the curves are horrible i hate them, and i much prefer to use 78 because of less traffic volume and i just prefer it for some reason. 22 actual pavement and such are not in bad condition, theirs lots of traffic, its typical for it to be a stand still on a regualr day, the road should be 3 lanes but overall the roads are good. On one of the interchanges of hellertown/bethlehem to 78 their redoing the road from 2 lanes total to 5 lanes total and turning lanes, so roads here overall aren't bad


I hope you didn't misunderstand me: your opinion's as valid as anyone else's (more, since you're a local). I'm just saying this sort of opinion is usually going to be based on impressions more than anything measurable. And any area's going to have good roads and bad; the contrast between 22 and 78 is just one example of that that I assumed you'd be familiar with.

:cheers:



henry1394 said:


> http://acidcow.com/cars/3112-gasoline_tanker_explosion_collapsed_a_bridge_42_pi.html


Whoa. When was that?


----------



## keokiracer

July 16th 2009


----------



## henry1394

http://acidcow.com/cars/6397-a-fiery-truck-crash-12-pics.html


----------



## keokiracer

What's the point in posting these? They're all very old... This one's from 2009 too.


----------



## diablo234

Penn's Woods said:


> I was wondering what Metro line was in the middle of the Beltway.... (But I didn't look that closely.)


I initially thought it was I-495 too, but then the toll booth in the upper right hand corner gave it away.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-69 Houston, TX*

I-69 signs popped up along US 59 in Houston.


Distance to IH 69 & US 59 on Beltway 8 Eastbound - 1.5 Miles by FreewayDan, on Flickr


Distance to IH 69 & US 59 on Beltway 8 Eastbound - 1 Mile by FreewayDan, on Flickr


Approach to IH 69 & US 59 along eastbound Beltway 8 by FreewayDan, on Flickr


----------



## Penn's Woods

Which means, unless I'm forgetting something, FOUR disconnected segments of I-69 now....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't think that's a real problem. When the Interstate Highway system was constructed in the 1960s and 1970s there were many such disconnected segments. 

All Interstate-standard segments of US 78 (Memphis - Birmingham) could easily be signed as I-22. No need to wait years with temporary signs until the entire route is completed. 

Luckily I-49 will be signed in Missouri, they don't await the construction of I-49 across Arkansas, which could take many years if not decades.


----------



## Penn's Woods

I'm not sure it's actually a problem....

Now, talking of Texas:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/u...it-for-title-of-fastest-in-the-land.html?_r=1


----------



## fredcalif

ChrisZwolle said:


> San Rafael Reef.
> 
> 
> San Rafael Reef, Utah by Pippa Robins, on Flickr


Amazing almost another planet


----------



## Jschmuck

> Amazing almost another planet


it is, its the new highway on Mars.

This makes me want to play Half Life 1 again


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-85 / I-485 interchange, Charlotte, NC*


I-85/485 Interchange progress is coming along. This project will link two vital interstates in Mecklenburg County, and will improve mobility in the Metrolina region. by NCDOTcommunications, on Flickr


I-85/I-485 Interchange by NCDOTcommunications, on Flickr


I-85/I-485 Interchange by NCDOTcommunications, on Flickr


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Which one? (485 crosses, or will cross, 85 twice.)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The northeastern one


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-70 Glenwood Canyon, Colorado*

Today it's exactly 20 years ago Interstate 70 was completed through the Glenwood Canyon in Colorado. It's one of the most impressive Interstate Highways. 


Glenwood Canyon by Payton Chung, on Flickr


Glenwood Canyon, CO I-70E by inkknife_2000, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Anniversary video:


----------



## Penn's Woods

I was in the Washington area yesterday and saw signage (on 66) for the 495 express lanes. I'm not sure I approve of tolling them: if the road needs to be widened, widen it for everyone, don't introduce a class system.

Just my two cents....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That is only possible if they substantially increase the gas tax, if not double it. That's political suicide right now. Funding is simply not enough to pay for such large projects.


----------



## Rail Claimore

They need to double the gas tax and index it to inflation.


----------



## Spurdo

Oakland By Air by D.H. Parks, on Flickr


----------



## geogregor

Few shots of Maine turnpike. One of a few roads in America which shows metric as well as imperial units, I guess it is due to many Canadians using it.













































I have to say that I found Maine roads to be mostly in an excellent condition. I also like practical attitude of the Maine drivers. Most of them totally ignore the ridiculously low speed limits.
For example between Bangor and Augusta speed limit is only 65mph (105km/h). Fortunately more than half of the drivers was doing well over 80mph. I was consistently driving 80-85 and wasn't the fastest on the road.

On many local roads there is only 55mph limit. This is a joke. You can safely drive 75 on most of them. If they worry about animal collisions why don't they introduce higher day limits and lower night limits?


EDIT
Here is the bit of I-95 between Bangor and Augusta
Why limit here is only 65???


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Another quirk about Maine - Vermont as well: Pedestrians have an absolute (or near-absolute, I suppose) right of way. If you so much as step off the curb, even in the middle of the block, traffic stops to let you cross. At least that's my experience.

And talking of roads used by Canadians, on the northernmost 40 miles or so of I-87, all official signage is bilingual. Don't remember whether they use metric, though.


----------



## Trilesy

geogregor said:


> I was consistently driving 80-85 and wasn't the fastest on the road.


I would be more careful about that; driving more than 75 mph (in 65 mph zone) will get you pulled over pretty soon. I bet most people you saw speeding were locals who know exactly where all the speed traps are.


----------



## geogregor

Trilesy said:


> I would be more careful about that; driving more than 75 mph (in 65 mph zone) will get you pulled over pretty soon. I bet most people you saw speeding were locals who know exactly where all the speed traps are.


I know, that's why I was following locals. I try not to speed alone, usually follow one or two fast cars, mostly locals 
Anyway, I saw very little enforcement on my last trip. Occasional state trooper here and there, mostly close to urban centers.
Once in Massachusetts there was trooper in the median in 65 zone so traffic slowed to about 75.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The old alignment of I-40 in Oklahoma City has been demolished pretty fast.


----------



## Road_UK

geogregor said:


> Few shots of Maine turnpike. One of a few roads in America which shows metric as well as imperial units, I guess it is due to many Canadians using it.
> ]


That's pretty efficient. I wish they'd do that in Ireland and British Northern Ireland. All you get is a sign on both sides of the border, saying that speed limits are respectively in KM and miles.


----------



## diablo234

Road_UK said:


> That's pretty efficient. I wish they'd do that in Ireland and British Northern Ireland. All you get is a sign on both sides of the border, saying that speed limits are respectively in KM and miles.


You pretty much described the US/Canada border region as well. In my experience only a few Interstates have signage in kilometers in addition to miles, in most cases there is just a sign reminding you to use the imperial system (or metric when crossing into Canada)


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/qc/a-15/sl.jpg


----------



## gigilamoroso

geogregor said:


> I know, that's why I was following locals. I try not to speed alone, usually follow one or two fast cars, mostly locals
> Anyway, I saw very little enforcement on my last trip. Occasional state trooper here and there, mostly close to urban centers.
> Once in Massachusetts there was trooper in the median in 65 zone so traffic slowed to about 75.


^^wow, fabulous. For my part I love to drink a lot and then drive : is it ok without being pulled over in that state????


----------



## desertpunk

*Interstate 11 project could include highway on eastern rim of valley*









This artist’s rendering shows what the redesigned interchange of the Boulder City Bypass and U.S. 93 would look like at Railroad Pass. The Railroad Pass Casino is to the the left. If U.S. 93 is designated an interstate between Las Vegas and Phoenix, the bypass route would become part of the interstate, officials say.



> The Nevada Department of Transportation hasn't ruled out building a highway on the eastern rim of the valley as part of the Interstate 11 project, but planners admit it would be an expensive proposition that essentially would complete a freeway loop around Las Vegas.
> 
> "Everything is on the table," said Sondra Rosenberg, project manager for Nevada's portion of the I-11 plan, which would create a new interstate highway linking Phoenix and Las Vegas, the two largest cities in the country currently not connected with an interstate.
> 
> Rosenberg made her comments at a public meeting Thursday at which representatives of NDOT and the Arizona Department of Transportation explained the process of bringing U.S. 93 up to interstate highway standards.
> 
> Most of I-11 would be in Arizona and would likely use U.S. 93, a four-lane divided highway from Hoover Dam at the Nevada border to Kingman and a mix of two- and four-lane roads from Interstate 40 to Wickenburg.
> 
> Michael Kies, Rosenberg's Arizona counterpart with ADOT, explained that interstate highway standards would include ramps to enter and exit the highway and overpasses or underpasses at key intersections. Currently, U.S. 93 has several at-grade intersections and traffic lights on the route.











http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/18911376/boulder-city-bypass-interstate-11-inch-toward-reality









http://azbex.com/transportation-bill-moves-i-11-closer-to-reality/


----------



## geogregor

gigilamoroso said:


> ^^wow, fabulous. For my part I love to drink a lot and then drive : is it ok without being pulled over in that state????


??? I didn't get it.
Are you trying to compare drink driving with a little bit of speeding in good conditions and on good quality roads which just happens to have strangely low speed limits?
Those same roads in most European countries would have 75-80mph limit


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-495 Washington Beltway at Tysons Corner


IMG_9559 by VaDOT, on Flickr


IMG_9610 by VaDOT, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 10, Katy Freeway, Houston, TX*

Today it's 4 years ago the massive reconstruction of the Katy Freeway in West Houston was completed.

The Beltway / Katy stack interchange probably has the highest number of through lanes in any interchange in the world (14).


----------



## desertpunk

NJ Turnpike empty


Hurricane Sandy - State of emergency due to Hurricane Sandy, led to an empty New Jersey Turnpike. This shot was taken on the Station Road overpass in Cranbury, New Jersey. by capturedenigma, on Flickr


----------



## NFZANMNIM

desertpunk said:


> NJ Turnpike empty
> 
> 
> Hurricane Sandy - State of emergency due to Hurricane Sandy, led to an empty New Jersey Turnpike. This shot was taken on the Station Road overpass in Cranbury, New Jersey. by capturedenigma, on Flickr


Why is it empty? The hurricane?


----------



## Penn's Woods

Yep. Roads were closed, travel was restricted....

Actually, the Turnpike will often lower speed limits if it's very windy.


----------



## keokiracer

I saw a picture with a 45 mph speed limit. It looked like the Turnike, but I'm not sure if it was the turnpike though.


----------



## Penn's Woods

The Turnpike has these very distinctive reduce-speed signs that they've been using as long as I can remember (since the 70s) and that I've never seen anywhere else:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/New_Jersey_Turnpike_Reduce_Speed_sign.jpg

http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index....69c3f33f2eeb9a5b&topic=2468.msg55287#msg55287


----------



## keokiracer

Yes, that's the same (kind of) sign I saw on that pic


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Wow that is ancient.... Neon VMS.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-69 Indiana*

The 67 mile segment of I-69 in southwestern Indiana will open November 19.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/science/...sion-s-1st-stretch-to-open-Nov-19-4003856.php

This may well be the largest single freeway opening in the past 25 years.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-15 Utah*

The 24-mile CORE project wraps up by next Monday, November 5. The project added 2 lanes in both directions south of Salt Lake City. The project ran from Spanish Fork to Lehi, through the urbanized corridor around Utah Lake. Provo is the largest city in this area.

The freeway was widened from 4 to 6 lanes in Spanish Fork, 6 to 10 lanes through the Provo area and from 8 to 12 lanes north to Lehi, just south of Salt Lake County.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> Wow that is ancient.... Neon VMS.


I'm surprised you didn't know about those! 

And then there's this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mpd01605/3649509746/

Those would be at the northbound split between the two so-called "spurs"; you'd also see them at the split between the cars-only and cars-trucks-buses lanes, at the southbound split between the spurs....

I don't know how easy it is to tell from that photo what's going on, but the signs have panels in them; that's the default position. If one side is congested, or actually closed, they can change the panels to direct everyone the "good" way. In that situation, the background color on the warning panels is red.

Are the neon ones* the first VMSes in the world?

*The AARoads thread says they go back to the opening of the Turnpike in the '50s; what I've called the splits haven't existed that long - the "Western Spur" opened about 1970 - so I'm assuming the changeable-panel signs go back onlly that far.


EDIT/PS: note the beehive state highway markers in your Utah post.


----------



## geor

After these scenes i decided to go to shop next week and buy a brand new generator for electricity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-4CXTKe6y3s


----------



## desertpunk

*MIAMI*

*This Is The Underbelly Of The Giant I-395 Of The Future*












> This is FDOT's idea (hope, dream, pie-in-the-sky) of what it'll be like to hang out underneath the new I-395 that they have in the works. Superhighway overhead? Check. Groovy V-shaped pylons? Check. Space to create an under-highway park with elaborate landscaping and grass that magically doesn't die in the shade? Check. And this isn't even the portion underneath that giant land bridge whooshing over Biscayne Boulevard. Oh, yes, that'll be something. To read some FDOT-babble on the I-395 reconstruction project, click on through!
> 
> FDOT says:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Project Limits* From west of I-95 to the MacArthur Cswy Bridge Municipalities City of Miami Project Summary This project involves the rebuilding of the Interstate 395 (I-395) corridor from its terminus at the west of the I-95/Midtown Interchange (I-95/State Road 836/I-395) to its corridor terminus at the West Channel Bridges of US 41/MacArthur Causeway, approximately 1.4 miles. I-395 is an Interstate Principal Arterial and major east-west connector serving Miami Beach and the ports. Proposed improvements include: (1) Building new elevated ramps (one eastbound and one westbound) that will provide direct linkage between I-95 and I-395. (2) Improving roadway design including updating the alignment and upgrading the roadway surface. (3) Creating a visually appealing bridge. (4) Building vertically higher structures that will improve the visual quality of the bridge.
> 
> Anticipated Construction Start Date: January 2021
> Construction Cost:$500 to 600M
Click to expand...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-12 Slidell, Louisiana*

A couple of miles of the eastern end of I-12 were widened to six lanes. The project was completed on November 2, 2012 through the Slidell area. The $ 25.7 million project was completed in a year.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-435 Kansas City, Kansas*

I found out about this massive $ 600 million overhaul of I-435 and adjoining sections in Lenexa and Overland Park, two southern suburbs of Kansas City on the Kansas side.

I-435 will be widened substantially and the K-10 / I-35 / I-435 interchange will be reconstructed.

The plans are as follows;

* widen I-435 mainline to 2x5 lanes west of I-35
* construct a K-10 to I-35 bypass. Traffic from K-10 to I-35 never gets on I-435 mainline
* construct a basketweave west of the I-435 / US 69 interchange
* widen I-435 mainline to 2x6 lanes east of I-35
* widen K-10 to 2x3 lanes west of I-435

I-435 cross section: 18 lanes between K-10 and I-35.









I-435 cross section: 12 lanes east of I-35









overall project:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

desertpunk said:


> *This Is The Underbelly Of The Giant I-395 Of The Future*


Interestingly I-395 is not even that old. It opened in 1971. The structure is ugly and has only 2x2 through lanes. 

This is what it looks like today.


----------



## NFZANMNIM

desertpunk said:


> *This Is The Underbelly Of The Giant I-395 Of The Future*


I dont think it would be that of a good idea. In Boston it was like this, but then they had to dug up the freeway and put it underground.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's not really comparable. I-395 runs through only 3 or 4 blocks of waterfront, I-95 in Boston was quite different. Besides there is already the elevated Metromover next to it (which is an elevated structure through much of downtown Miami).


----------



## geogregor

Few shots from my last trip to NYC


















Wyjazd po lewej, dosc powszechne rozwiazanie w USA.


----------



## geogregor

And few shots from I-287 around the NYC


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-95 Springfield, Virginia*


I-95 overpass at Commerce St by paul.wasneski, on Flickr


----------



## diablo234

ChrisZwolle said:


> I-95 overpass at Commerce St by paul.wasneski, on Flickr


Judging from the traffic I would say that was taken during the afternoon rush hour. Gotta love the traffic in Northern Virginia (which passed Los Angeles as being the most congested in the nation).


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's not really comparable. I-395 runs through only 3 or 4 blocks of waterfront, I-95 in Boston was quite different. Besides there is already the elevated Metromover next to it (which is an elevated structure through much of downtown Miami).


Exactly it has little impact on the waterfront and you're right its much different than Boston and not worth it to put the highway underground.


----------



## Professor L Gee

diablo234 said:


> Judging from the traffic I would say that was taken during the afternoon rush hour. Gotta love the traffic in Northern Virginia (which passed Los Angeles as being the most congested in the nation).


From my own experiences driving though the area, that could very well have been a Sunday afternoon. hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's why they are currently constructing that three-lane reversible HOT facility in the median down to Stafford.


----------



## Professor L Gee

The choke point has always been well south of where the current HOV lanes end, though. Usually Fredericksburg.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are plans to expand that section down to Richmond as well, by tolling the existing Interstate.


----------



## Professor L Gee

I think the bigger point is this: as long as that's only one of two north-south routes through that part of the state (the arterial, very suburban US 1 is the other), I-95 will continue to be congested. And as Northern Virginia suburbia/exurbia extends further south, so will the congestion.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Professor L Gee said:


> From my own experiences driving though the area, that could very well have been a Sunday afternoon. hno:


I was going to say, whenever I'm in the Washington area on weekends, 95 in Virginia - as far down as Fredericksburg - is mentioned in the traffic reports.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There has been substantial population growth in the Fredericksburg area in the last 20 years. For example Spotsylvania County grew from 57,000 to 122,000 people between 1990 and 2010. Stafford County also doubled during that period, from 61,000 to 129,000 inhabitants. Add the city of Fredericksburg to it and you have an urban area with around 300,000 people. However, most employment is either in the Washington or Richmond areas. So people commute. Those are California-style commutes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-15 Project Neon, Las Vegas, Nevada*

Check out this huge $ 1.8 billion / 3.7 mile mega project along I-15 in downtown Las Vegas. It's currently a 2x5 freeway.


----------



## fredcalif

ChrisZwolle said:


> Check out this huge $ 1.8 billion / 3.7 mile mega project along I-15 in downtown Las Vegas. It's currently a 2x5 freeway.


I wonder if this will get build, I heard about this project long time ago.
I know they are building the express lanes on I15 from I215 to like Tropicana.

I hope they build this


----------



## Penn's Woods

Penn's Woods said:


> I'm surprised you didn't know about those!
> 
> And then there's this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mpd01605/3649509746/
> 
> Those would be at the northbound split between the two so-called "spurs"; you'd also see them at the split between the cars-only and cars-trucks-buses lanes, at the southbound split between the spurs....
> 
> I don't know how easy it is to tell from that photo what's going on, but the signs have panels in them; that's the default position. If one side is congested, or actually closed, they can change the panels to direct everyone the "good" way. In that situation, the background color on the warning panels is red.
> 
> Are the neon ones* the first VMSes in the world?
> 
> *The AARoads thread says they go back to the opening of the Turnpike in the '50s; what I've called the splits haven't existed that long - the "Western Spur" opened about 1970 - so I'm assuming the changeable-panel signs go back onlly that far.
> 
> 
> EDIT/PS: note the beehive state highway markers in your Utah post.


Quoting myself because I just happened on this:

http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freewaymgmt..._lanes/crosscuttingstudy/images/exhibit15.jpg

Judging from the angle of the left-hand ramp, this would be on the way out of a service area (or maybe entering at an interchange), not at the main split.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-15, Utah*

The massive widening project of Interstate 15 in Utah County, Utah was completed significantly under budget. The 24-mile section was widened with an additional 2 lanes in each direction, to as much as 2x6 lanes. The project had a budget of $ 1.73 billion, including land acquisition. The actual amount of money spent was $ 230 million lower than the budget.

Construction will commence next year to widen an additional segment south of Spanish Fork to 2x3 lanes to Payson. This project is very cheap, the budget is only $ 32 million and a right-of-way is already available in the median.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-10, Louisiana*

The state of Louisiana has put plans to widen I-10 in Baton Rouge on indefinite hold. The plan was to widen I-10 from the Mississippi River to the I-10/I-12 split. This is currently a six-lane freeway. Any widening would have required significant reconstruction and right-of-way acquisition because several segments of I-10 run across viaducts with no shoulders. 

They now plan to improve traffic signals in this area, although there is no decent alternate surface street that runs adjacent to I-10.


----------



## desertpunk

*I-15 Salt Lake City*


I-15 Overpass in Pleasant Grove, Utah by Photo Dean, on Flickr


I-15 Exit 275 in Pleasant Grove, Utah County, Utah by Photo Dean, on Flickr


----------



## JeremyCastle

As a Californian who has now lived several years in Europe, I don't understand why the vast majority of US freeways/interstates/expressways just don't look as good as their European counterparts.

I know the US system is for the most part older; but even in places where they have expanded recently, the road quality just doesn't seem as good or as smooth as most of the Western European freeways/motorways (for example, the above photos). Add to that, the continued obsession with building traffic lights on off ramps baffles me. I know our US patriotism runs deep, but surely there are things pertaining to highway building that the US can learn from Western Europe?


----------



## AUchamps

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^One of America's great tourist traps is near Chattanooga:
> 
> http://seerockcity.biz/browseproducts/Rock-Barn-Photo---------See-7-States-Crossville-.html
> 
> It is an impressive site, though. (Not Rock City, particularly: the setting for the city. If you're anywhere near there, the view from Lookout Mountain are worth it, and without paying Rock City's admission: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookout_Mountain)


I wouldn't call Rock City a tourist trap anymore then I would the Tennessee Aquarium(one of the best in the USA, I might add). Now, the ore great thing about that stretch of I-24 is the sheer amount of Fireworks outlets. Some are so big they even cause the median of the interstate to be widened between Southeast and Northwest bound lanes at an exit. I will actually be going through there this week, and perhaps a gross of bottle rockets for $5 is worth a purchase at Big Daddy's Fireworks or Tennessee Alabama Fireworks.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I noticed those fireworks shops. Why is that?


----------



## Penn's Woods

AUchamps said:


> I wouldn't call Rock City a tourist trap anymore then I would the Tennessee Aquarium(one of the best in the USA, I might add)....


Um, widely-marketed commercial roadside attraction, then? Like South of the Border? http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tip/2078

Great site, by the way...: http://www.roadsideamerica.com/




ChrisZwolle said:


> I noticed those fireworks shops. Why is that?


An example of the American phenomenon of putting businesses near state lines that would be illegal in the neighboring states. Fireworks are illegal in some states, but that's one of those completely unenforced laws, so if you want to shoot off fireworks in your back yard on the Fourth of July, just go to a state where they're legal to buy them....

If you've been following my trials and tribulations in Roadside Rest, you may remember (I'm not expecting you should, mind you...) I needed to get a new TV a week-and-a-half ago. I went to Delaware for it, because Delaware has no sales tax and I'm not above saving ten bucks. The very top of Delaware is therefore chock full of major retailers who get most of their customers from Pennsylvania. And liquor stores, because Pennsylvania's in the Dark Ages in that respect (when alcoholic beverages became legal again after the end of Prohibition, Pennsylvania, among many other states, immediately established a system of so-called "state stores": the only legal retailer of anything stronger than beer is the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board, and Pennsylvania wineries selling their own product. So you can find an abnormal number of wine and liquor stores in neighboring states near the Pennsylvania line. It's theoretically illegal to transport alcoholic beverages across state borders, but neither the public nor the police actually cares.)

Where I bought the TV: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=39.826385,-75.542786&spn=0.009212,0.016458&t=m&z=16 [EDIT: Hmm. Not sure it centered properly; I'm talking about the Best Buy.]
Where I go for alcohol: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=39.817123,-75.457728&spn=0.004607,0.008229&t=m&z=17 (Total Wine)
Take 95 to the first exit in Delaware, right at the top of the ramp, first strip mall on the right: It literally couldn't be any closer to Philadelphia without being in Pennsylvania (or New Jersey, where you have sales tax, and a toll to get back).

I find this sort of amusing.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

ChrisZwolle said:


> Interstate 24 is quite scenic in the Chattanooga, Tennessee area.
> 
> Unfortunately I couldn't find any other good photos of this location, but it looks great on Street View


This is the view heading north from that exact spot from 2010. It's pretty cool, you pretty much drop into the valley all the sudden and its one of those things that looks awesome in person. Also I-24 one you leave Chattanooga gets interesting.


----------



## jchernin

> *New Bay Bridge melds engineering and design*
> By Lisa Vorderbrueggen
> Contra Costa Times
> Posted: 11/14/2012 09:07:47 PM PST
> Updated: 11/15/2012 10:13:59 AM PST
> 
> BAY BRIDGE -- Sometimes you have to think inside the box.
> 
> When architects designed the new Bay Bridge, they drew slender, white, side-by-side decks hanging from gently draped cables over the water as if by magic.
> 
> That left Caltrans engineers with a challenge worthy of David Copperfield: Where do you hide the anchorages for the world's longest self-anchored suspension span?
> 
> Domineering, chunky piers were out of the question both for aesthetics and cost. The architects blanched at slapping onto their svelte bridge a monstrous, multistory anchorage housing.
> 
> If you cannot go down or out, you go inside.
> 
> Pushed by the architects, engineers compressed the anchorages into the "The Box," shorthand for the interior of the span's side-by-side hollow steel bridge decks. Only a trained eye can see where the decks jut out slightly into a nearly invisible wedge discernible from beneath the bridge.
> 
> It was a true marriage of engineering and aesthetics, said the project's chief engineer and architect....
> 
> Contact Lisa Vorderbrueggen at 925-945-4773, [email protected], politicswithlisav.blogspot.com or Twitter.com/lvorderbrueggen.


For more pictures (30) and entire article: http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_21999625/new-bay-bridge-melds-engineering-and-design


----------



## mgk920

tradephoric said:


> America is starting to get roundabout nutty. Once somebody has in their head that roundabouts are the greatest thing since sliced bread you end up with designs like these:
> 
> *Oshkosh, Wisconsin roundabouts off US41:*


That and a similar interchange in Neenah, WI (US 41(I-xx)/Breezewood Ln-Bell St), as well as US 41(I-xx)/WI 21 in Oshkosh were redone that way because of the close nature of the frontage/access road intersections and the traffic FUBAR that resulted. They were real MESSES and the roundabouts have been proving themselves to be the ideal solutions for them - it's like 'where did all of the traffic congestion go?' ever since they were completed, even though traffic volumes are unchanged from 'before'.

:yes:

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-30 / I-35E, Dallas, Texas*

TxDOT selected a developer for the Horseshoe Project near Downtown Dallas. This is where I-30 and I-35E intersect eachother. The existing infrastructure is over 50 years old and bridges need replacement. It's also high in the list of the 100 most congested roads in Texas.

Construction will commence mid-2013 and will be finished in 2017. The project cost is $ 818 million.

1. The current 13-lane section at downtown Dallas will be widened to 20 lanes.










2. I-30 will get a new bridge across the Trinity River. The current bridge has 6 lanes and no shoulders, the new bridge will feature 14 lanes.










3. The bridges of I-35E will also be replaced. The current bridges have 9 lanes (including 1 reversible HOV lane), which will be replaced by an 18-lane facility, including 2 reversible lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-95 Boston metro area, Massachusetts*

A 5.5 mile segment of I-95 has been widened to 2x4 lanes.


I-93 North, New Travel Lane Open, November 15, 2012 by MassDOT, on Flickr


----------



## AnOldBlackMarble

tradephoric said:


> America is starting to get roundabout nutty. Once somebody has in their head that roundabouts are the greatest thing since sliced bread you end up with designs like these:
> 
> *Cluster of multi-lane roundabouts near Kansas City:*


Well, if it wasn't a roundabout it would have to be either stop sings or stop lights, and I'll take roundabouts over stops any day of the week.


----------



## mgk920

*New section of interstate completed and marked*

Needed upgrades to a 13 km section of US 220 in the Asheboro, NC area are complete and the highway has now been marked as a new segment of I-73/74.

https://apps.ncdot.gov/newsreleases/details.aspx?r=7357

http://goo.gl/maps/FwzDJ

:dance:

Mike


----------



## Tom 958

AUchamps said:


> ...Fireworks outlets. Some are so big they even cause the median of the interstate to be widened between Southeast and Northwest bound lanes at an exit.


I seriously doubt that I-24 was bifurcated to make room for a fireworks stand. :lol:

It sure is hideous, though, ruining what ought to be an especially scenic vista, and with a huge, bright red neon sign to offend people 24-7. And, to add insult to injury, I've never seen more than a handful of customers there even though it sells gas, too. I sure as hell wouldn't give them a dime of my money.

At the other end of the bifurcation, what once was a picturesque farm is now a used earthmovers lot. hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

mgk920 said:


> Needed upgrades to a 13 km section of US 220 in the Asheboro, NC area are complete and the highway has now been marked as a new segment of I-73/74.


Nice. It's not a new freeway though. This part already opened as a freeway in the late 1960s. 

The bypass of Asheboro has an interesting median double exit (north is right):


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The 495 Express Lanes on the I-495 in Northern Virginia open to traffic tomorrow.


----------



## Botev1912

Are there bridges in Europe with concrete pavement? I have never seen one. In the US, there are a lot more bridges with concrete than asphalt pavement. I have no idea why. There are almost always bumps later when the road starts deteriorating because there are 2 different surfaces.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

In most cases the concrete pavement is part of the bridge structure and cannot be repaved unless they replace nearly the entire bridge. That's why you see super smooth new asphalt alternating with poor concrete bridge decks.


----------



## Botev1912

ChrisZwolle said:


> In most cases the concrete pavement is part of the bridge structure and cannot be repaved unless they replace nearly the entire bridge. That's why you see super smooth new asphalt alternating with poor concrete bridge decks.


How do they do it in Europe? Do they repave the bridges when repaving the roads?


----------



## xrtn2

ChrisZwolle said:


> The 495 Express Lanes on the I-495 in Northern Virginia open to traffic tomorrow.


What beautiful highway.:cheers::cheers:


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> In most cases the concrete pavement is part of the bridge structure and cannot be repaved unless they replace nearly the entire bridge. That's why you see super smooth new asphalt alternating with poor concrete bridge decks.


I know that, but I wonder why in the US they seems to prefer this technology while in Europe it is very rare if used at all.


----------



## mgk920

*New section of interstate to open on Monday, 2012-11-19*

A 108 km section of I-69, running between IN 68 near Eberfield, IN and US 231 near Crane, IN, is expected to open to traffic during the late afternoon on Monday, 2012-11-19.

www.tristate-media.com/pdclarion/article_bd7eece6-2faf-11e2-aaff-0019bb2963f4.html

Southwest end:
http://binged.it/UMJyxr

Northeast end:
http://binged.it/Qm4aRp

Area overview:
http://binged.it/RL0h5x

:dance:

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 495, Washington Beltway*

First video of the 495 express lanes in northern Virginia.


----------



## brewerfan386

mgk920 said:


> A *67 Mile**(*108 km*)* section of I-69, running between IN 68 near Eberfield, IN and US 231 near Crane, IN, is expected to open to traffic during the late afternoon on Monday, *11-19-2012*.


:naughty::happy:


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^ :applause:



mgk920 said:


> A 108 km section of I-69, running between IN 68 near Eberfield, IN and US 231 near Crane, IN, is expected to open to traffic during the late afternoon on Monday, 2012-11-19.
> 
> www.tristate-media.com/pdclarion/article_bd7eece6-2faf-11e2-aaff-0019bb2963f4.html
> 
> Southwest end:
> http://binged.it/UMJyxr
> 
> Northeast end:
> http://binged.it/Qm4aRp
> 
> Area overview:
> http://binged.it/RL0h5x
> 
> :dance:
> 
> Mike


I'm not clear where the southern terminus is: at the current 64/164 interchange? Is 164 going to be renumbered?

EDIT: I see - the little stub from that interchange to Ind. 68 was already open.


----------



## flierfy

geogregor said:


> I know that, but I wonder why in the US they seems to prefer this technology while in Europe it is very rare if used at all.


There are many reasons. The surface layer of mastic asphalt is best available protection against infiltrating moisture for the reinforced concrete structure. This layer does also correct up to 2 cm of divergence of the concreted deck to the design gradient. And the most important reason is that the wearing out surface layer is replaceable.

I can't help you with the American motives though.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Tappan Zee Bridge*

The Tappan Zee Bridge (I-87 / I-287) in New York State. It is overdue for replacement. The bridge is structurally deficient and suffers from traffic congestion.


DSC_0170 by I.C. Ligget, on Flickr


----------



## Penn's Woods

There's a piece in the New York Times today (Nicholas Kristof's column, on the opinion page) that, as part of a broader discussion of the way this country spends, and doesn't spend, money, mentions that our infrastructure (as rated by the World Economic Forum) has dropped from 8th* in the world to 25th *since 2003.*

Sigh.

*I had a different number in this post originally, because I quoted the article from memory, an hour after I read it.


----------



## JohnFlint1985

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yep. The design of the roads in that area leave a lot to be desired. Roadway splits, substandard interchanges, tiny toll plazas, lack of through lanes at certain points. Not much can be upgraded though, but all-electronic tolling should be a priority. Nothing is more annoying than having to wait in line to pay money.
> 
> The bridge carries 280,000 vehicles per day. Less than half of that is through traffic, 113,000 vehicles drive across the Trans-Manhattan Expressway underneath the buildings.
> 
> The bridge itself has sufficient capacity to handle that kind of traffic. The adjacent infrastructure, toll plazas and the interchanges in particular are the main problem. Out of the 12 lanes on the Trans-Manhattan, only six are through lanes at the I-87 interchange.


It is actually more complicated than just that. On top of everything you just mentioned GWB leads both to Manhattan and to Bronx and further into New England. It is part of I-95. In real life it means that all the upper level of the bridge is filled to the brim with 18 wheeler trucks and cars which go to Bronx and further. They cannot take exits to Manhattan since both FDR and West side HWY are not for the trucks.

Me on the other hand take it to Manhattan, but still have to stand in a huge line in the morning. The solution is that you transfer all the cargo traffic into Bronx to Tappan Zee bridge. It is also not a perfect one and need replacement, but it is way more empty than GWB.


----------



## flierfy

JohnFlint1985 said:


> It is actually more complicated than just that. On top of everything you just mentioned GWB leads both to Manhattan and to Bronx and further into New England.


It also seems to be the most vital road links between New Jersey and Long Island as well.


----------



## Xusein

JohnFlint1985 said:


> Me on the other hand take it to Manhattan, but still have to stand in a huge line in the morning. The solution is that you transfer all the cargo traffic into Bronx to Tappan Zee bridge. It is also not a perfect one and need replacement, but it is way more empty than GWB.


Problem though, the Tappan Zee is dire need of renovation too.

The problem is that freight rail networks in the East Coast compared to many other parts of the US are weak, which is pretty ironic since passenger networks are the strongest by far. If there were less trucks on the road, there would be less issues.


----------



## Nexis

Xusein said:


> Problem though, the Tappan Zee is dire need of renovation too.
> 
> The problem is that freight rail networks in the East Coast compared to many other parts of the US are weak, which is pretty ironic since passenger networks are the strongest by far. If there were less trucks on the road, there would be less issues.


They tried building a New Freight line to NYC but that was blocked due to the Mayor not wanting any noise even with it being a duel tunnel for both passenger and freight still NYC wouldn't budget. The Second option went out the window when they canceled the I-287 Railway corridor , we still don't know why they canceled that project....first they said it was ridership which was projected to be at least 40,000 for the phase 1 and Phase 2 was up to 100,000 then they said cost which didn't make sense because half the corridor is already built but they were saying 10 billion or something like that , then they said they had no space....it was an endless amount of excuses why they canceled that Rail line....but now the region will suffer.... West of the Hudson is growing fast and most of the jobs are east of the Hudson , unless a Rail line is built by 2035 the corridor will suffer 15hr snarls...its already 6hrs on some days.... Its sad because they spent so much time and money studying the Rail , it was going to take 1000s of cars and trucks off the roads and highways and strengthen the Northern New Jersey and Lower Hudson Valley Economy... Hopefully they build it down the road...


----------



## Penn's Woods

flierfy said:


> It also seems to be the most vital road links between New Jersey and Long Island as well.


One of the most vital. A lot of people coming from the south and west cross Staten Island, southern Brooklyn and southern Queens. In fact, I may shortly be sitting in traffic either at the Goethals Bridge or on the Staten Island Expressway (both parts of I-278) as I'm going to Staten Island to see relatives.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-95 Jacksonville, Florida*

A large $ 227 million project will commence in Jacksonville next January. The project will be a large-scale renovation project, with minor capacity additions. The Overland Bridge south of Downtown will be replaced by a new structure. This bridge currently has a 3+3+6 lane configuration. Mainline I-95 south traffic will get a third lane.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-95, I-395, I-495, Springfield Interchange, VA*

Another recent aerial of the Springfield Interchange in Northern Virginia.


IMG_9459 by VaDOT, on Flickr

detail of I-95 just south of the interchange.


----------



## Jschmuck

^^ that reminds me, i haven't had a plate of spaghetti in a while. just drove through it today coincidently.


----------



## Tommy Boy

This project is incredible just great. Watch and enjoy Highway friends

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp_5_si8apM&feature=g-all


----------



## Xpressway

^^ Amazing project... Those are some super highways.


----------



## JohnFlint1985

Xusein said:


> Problem though, the Tappan Zee is dire need of renovation too.
> 
> The problem is that freight rail networks in the East Coast compared to many other parts of the US are weak, which is pretty ironic since passenger networks are the strongest by far. If there were less trucks on the road, there would be less issues.


no argument here. we are way behind in making sure that our cargo is transported by rail. Also no questions about the dire need to replace Tappan Zee ASAP. But GWB problem is sooo obvious due to the only way into New England from Mid Atlantic states. Combination of Bronx, LI, New England and I-95 all in one bridge is way over what it should be. I just hope that a new Tappan Zee is not going to be too long. It is not too soon to start already!


----------



## diablo234




----------



## mgk920

*New section of interstate to open*

I-781, approximately 7 km long, connecting the main gate of Fort Drum (USArmy) by US 11 with I-81 a short distance north of Watertown, NY, will open for traffic on the morning of Thursday, 2012-12-06.

http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20121205/NEWS09/712059721

Location:
http://binged.it/WK2duS

:dance:

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's hardly worth Interstate status. It has virtually no significance for through traffic, it's basically just a long offramp of I-81.


----------



## Jschmuck

lol don't mind mgk920, he's giddy with all the US41 reconstruction here in NE Wisconsin. But anyways I was through this area of NY last spring traveling from northern Vermont to Ohio and took the northern route above the Adirondack National Park, through Gouvenor, NY, and noticed that construction going on by the Fort and wondered what was happening. hmm, maybe in 20 years there could be a 2 lane interstate extended from I-81 around the north side of the National Park, around Potsdam and Malone to I-87, because to pick up the Thrustate Toll is way out of route for us Truck drivers with freight from northern Vermont going west. My point is there are some tight intersections in some of the towns we have to buttonhook through. Certainly wouldn't need to be 4-lanes. BTW I could not see any scenery as it was foggy and rainy.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's hardly worth Interstate status. It has virtually no significance for through traffic, it's basically just a long offramp of I-81.


And they couldn't call it 181, 381 or 581?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It makes more sense to give a higher number further north / east into a state.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^But, as you surely know, three-digit-Interstate numbers can be duplicated in different states. Since 781 is the only odd-prefixed three-digit x81 *in New York*, there's no reason (in my opinion) to give it such a high prefix.

It's not a big deal and I don't really care, mind you; it just seems strange.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Maybe they reserve the lower numbers for eventual future auxiliary routes.


----------



## sotonsi

Or because other states have used lower-numbered spurs and there's no reason to confuse people, rather than just having I-781?


----------



## mgk920

I'm not all giddy over US 41's current upgrades nor its pending interstate promotion, to me it's all just another highway construction project in US 41's 85+ years of ever-ongoing evolution. I'm much more giddy about US 10's ongoing upgrades between Appleton and Stevens Point and WI 26's ongoing upgrades between Oshkosh and Janesville.

:yes:

As for I-781, I can see it eventually being extended northeastward from just north of its US 11 interchange, perhaps all the way to and beyond Champlain, NY.

Mike


----------



## Penn's Woods

mgk920 said:


> I'm not all giddy over US 41's current upgrades nor its pending interstate promotion, to me it's all just another highway construction project in US 41's 85+ years of ever-ongoing evolution. I'm much more giddy about US 10's ongoing upgrades between Appleton and Stevens Point and WI 26's ongoing upgrades between Oshkosh and Janesville.
> 
> :yes:
> 
> As for I-781, I can see it eventually being extended northeastward from just north of its US 11 interchange, perhaps all the way to and beyond Champlain, NY.
> 
> Mike


Well, then they'd have to call it I-98.


----------



## mgk920

One thought regarding the opening of I-781 - there are now four interstates that end with direct feeds into the main gates of military bases. They are:

I-H3 - USMarine Corps Base Hawaii (Kaneohe Bay, HI)
I-185 - Fort Benning (USArmy), GA
I-564 - Norfolk, VA Naval Base
I-781 - Fort Drum (USArmy), NY

There are numerous interstates that pass through military bases.

Mike


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> It makes more sense to give a higher number further north / east into a state.


Never thought of it that way. I suppose that would make sense, but there's certainly no practice of doing that that I've noticed.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Maybe they reserve the lower numbers for eventual future auxiliary routes.


That, I'll believe when I see it!



sotonsi said:


> Or because other states have used lower-numbered spurs and there's no reason to confuse people, rather than just having I-781?


There are a 381 and a 581 in Virginia, and there used to be a 181 in Tennessee. So that may have been their thinking, but again that's not consistent practice. To the extent normal Americans (as opposed to roadgeeks) notice this sort of thing, I'd guess they're used to numbers being reused hundreds of miles apart. Just off the top of my head, I can think of four I-110s, three of them (in Louisiana, Mississippi and Florida) being relatively close together; the 110s in Mississippi and Florida are not only the only x10s in their states, but they're also within about 100 miles of each other. So obviously neither of those states thought of the danger of confusion.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I wonder how many people confuse I-287 with I-278 in the greater New York area. Both have some kind of a beltway function.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Well, the two don't actually meet so it wouldn't affect outsiders, and the natives don't think in route numbers.... (Well, 287 in New Jersey is "287" because it doesn't have a name, but I'd guess nine out of ten New Yorkers think of 278 as "the BQE" or "the Bruckner" or whatever, depending where you are....)


----------



## diablo234




----------



## ttownfeen

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's hardly worth Interstate status. It has virtually no significance for through traffic, it's basically just a long offramp of I-81.


The point of most 3di's is to act as long off-ramp of mainline interstates, n'est-ce pas?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Most 3di's serve urban areas or have at least several exits. I-781 has just one exit at US 11 before terminating at the Fort Drum main gate.


----------



## CNGL

I'm awaiting for a I-995, it would be the highest number given ever to a I-highway.

And I'm sure most of us believed that I-238 was a mistake when first seen on a map. There is no I-38 anywhere.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

CNGL said:


> And I'm sure most of us believed that I-238 was a mistake when first seen on a map. There is no I-38 anywhere.


That comes from CA-238. However, only road enthusiasts will probably find discrepancies in the numbering system a problem, especially minor ones like I-238 or I-97. The U.S. Highway system has more discrepancies than the Interstate Highway system though. 3-digit routes are frequently more important than 2-digit ones.


----------



## brewerfan386

ChrisZwolle said:


> That comes from CA-238. However, only road enthusiasts will probably find discrepancies in the numbering system a problem, especially* minor ones like I-238* or I-97.


Don't say this to the folks over on AARoads. :nono:


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Indeed. I-238 is completely unacceptable. And 97's ridiculous.


----------



## Xusein

Technically I-97 is not a discrepancy; it is east of I-95. But it is so small and uneventful that it feels "wasted", it would have logically been better off as a spur of 95...like 895 or something.

I'm surprised nobody mentioned I-99 which is in the middle of PA.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Xusein said:


> Technically I-97 is not a discrepancy; it is east of I-95. But it is so small and uneventful that it feels "wasted", it would have logically been better off as a spur of 95...like 895 or something.
> 
> I'm surprised nobody mentioned I-99 which is in the middle of PA.


I-97 is more of an anomaly than 99 (imho): it's way too short to be a two-digit route. 99's long enough for a two-digit route (or will be when it's extended into New York state). It's out of numerical order, but I don't see a solution to that since every other number from 69 up is taken.


----------



## diablo234

Here are some plans for a diverging diamond interchange (the first in Texas) located at the I-35/University Blvd exit in Round Rock (a suburb just north of Austin).

















http://impactnews.com/articles/the-french-interconnection/photos.html#4249


----------



## Penn's Woods

Hudson11 said:


> Thruway head backs $3.1 Billion TZB proposal
> 
> http://www.lohud.com/article/201212...019?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


Have people started calling it The Clothespins yet?


----------



## siamu maharaj

diablo234 said:


> Here are some plans for a diverging diamond interchange (the first in Texas) located at the I-35/University Blvd exit in Round Rock (a suburb just north of Austin).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://impactnews.com/articles/the-french-interconnection/photos.html#4249


Can someone explain to me what's up with that? Why have lanes going in the wrong direction and confusing some people when you can have them goign the right way like every other place on Earth?


----------



## diablo234

siamu maharaj said:


> Can someone explain to me what's up with that? Why have lanes going in the wrong direction and confusing some people when you can have them goign the right way like every other place on Earth?


Well it increases traffic flow for starters. Here is a video which explains the benefit of this interchange in further detail.


----------



## MSP

Minnesota has 2 diverging diamond interchanges under construction as we speak. I guess they work well where you have high turning volumes. 
They save a lot of money in bridge costs since you dont need turn lanes on top of the bridge.


----------



## Paddington




----------



## keokiracer

^^ 




 ... what you think.


----------



## tradephoric

Diverging Diamonds have their own set of problems. They do not do a good job at maintaining coordination along the arterial because the DDI traffic signals often have to run a much shorter cycle than the surrounding signals. In the case of Utah, they have DDI's that run completely free from the surrounding signals meaning it's a crap shoot if you hit a green light or not.

Ever been stopped at a red light looking at a signal resting in green 700 feet up the road with no cars traveling thru the intersection... then proceed to get your green and come straight to a red light at the signal you were just staring at? :bash:


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

^^You've described nearly every traffic light in Florida lol.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

New imagery of the 11th Street Bridges (I-295 / I-695 connector) in Washington, D.C.


----------



## siamu maharaj

diablo234 said:


> Well it increases traffic flow for starters. Here is a video which explains the benefit of this interchange in further detail.


Well yeah, but don't people get confused? I bet I'd have been confused if I'd ever come across it. Maybe they use a lot of signs leading up to it?


----------



## tradephoric

I've posted this time-distance in the past but it really highlights the concept of signal spacing and the effects it has on progression. Good signal progression in one direction leads to bad progression in the opposite direction along the time distance diagram below. Whenever you have two traffic signals spaced roughly 1/2 mile apart along a high speed arterial good progression goes out the window in at least one direction of travel.









The Diverging Diamond naturally lead to these tough "1/2 mile" spacings that are so difficult to deal with (since the DDI calls for traffic signals that stop _Both_ directions of travel along the arterial). The Diverging Diamond interchange contributes to the problem of poor traffic signal spacing that is so prevalent throughout major metros in America.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I kept track of new freeway openings in the United States this year.

In 2012, 231 miles of new freeway opened to traffic in 13 states (as of today). Indiana opened the most, with 67 miles of new freeway, all of it belongs to I-69. Follow-up is Texas with 48 miles of new freeway. Wisconsin comes in third with 31 miles of new freeway. California and Missouri opened just 3 miles each. I excluded the upgrade of US 71 to I-49 in Missouri because most of it was done prior to 2012. 

This includes Interstate Highways, U.S. Highways and State Highways built to freeway standards.


----------



## diablo234

siamu maharaj said:


> Well yeah, but don't people get confused? I bet I'd have been confused if I'd ever come across it. Maybe they use a lot of signs leading up to it?


Well there are signs in place to guide motorists in place.

Here is a a video of a diverging diamond interchange from the driver's viewpoint in American Fork, Utah. As you can see it's not really complicated.


----------



## diablo234

ChrisZwolle said:


> New imagery of the 11th Street Bridges (I-295 / I-695 connector) in Washington, D.C.


I am surprised this has not been done already, hopefully it will get more traffic off New York Avenue (US 50).


----------



## myosh_tino

Hudson11 said:


>


The new "Tappan Zee Bridge brought to you by Honda!" :lol:


----------



## geogregor

tradephoric said:


> Diverging Diamonds have their own set of problems. They do not do a good job at maintaining coordination along the arterial because the DDI traffic signals often have to run a much shorter cycle than the surrounding signals. In the case of Utah, they have DDI's that run completely free from the surrounding signals meaning it's a crap shoot if you hit a green light or not.
> 
> Ever been stopped at a red light looking at a signal resting in green 700 feet up the road with no cars traveling thru the intersection... then proceed to get your green and come straight to a red light at the signal you were just staring at? :bash:


But I think that the whole idea of DDI works best in places where there is a lot of traffic entering/leaving freeway. If most of the traffic is turning into freeway or coming from the freeway then synchronization along the arterial doesn't matter that much as relatively fewer cars drive just straight through the interchange.
In places where very few drivers turn from the arterial to freeway then DDI might loose some of it advantages by blocking through traffic and disturbing synchronization.


----------



## Professor L Gee

diablo234 said:


> I am surprised this has not been done already, hopefully it will get more traffic off New York Avenue (US 50).


I'd be surprised if it did. 50's pretty far north of this location... as far as the Anacostia Freeway is concerned anyway.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Speaking as someone who occasionally drives into Washington from the northeast and who's gotten to the point where I'd rather go around the Beltway to Cabin John and take the GW in than use New York, or 16th or Connecticut.... I'd be glad to stay on the Anacostia for a few miles farther if it meant I could stay on freeways right downtown.


----------



## diablo234

Professor L Gee said:


> I'd be surprised if it did. 50's pretty far north of this location... as far as the Anacostia Freeway is concerned anyway.


I was thinking more in terms of traffic getting from say the Maryland suburbs to DCA/Arlington since through traffic heading to those destinations as of right now still has to utilize US 50 which is incredibly time consuming, with the new connection to the Anacostia Freeway they can effectively bypass the traffic lights/congestion on New York Avenue (although traffic heading into DC proper as the final destination will still probably use New York Avenue regardless).


----------



## Professor L Gee

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^Speaking as someone who occasionally drives into Washington from the northeast and who's gotten to the point where I'd rather go around the Beltway to Cabin John and take the GW in than use New York, or 16th or Connecticut.... I'd be glad to stay on the Anacostia for a few miles farther if it meant I could stay on freeways right downtown.





diablo234 said:


> I was thinking more in terms of traffic getting from say the Maryland suburbs to DCA/Arlington since through traffic heading to those destinations as of right now still has to utilize US 50 which is incredibly time consuming, with the new connection to the Anacostia Freeway they can effectively bypass the traffic lights/congestion on New York Avenue (although traffic heading into DC proper as the final destination will still probably use New York Avenue regardless).


Both your scenarios make sense, and I hadn't considered them. :cheers:


----------



## tradephoric

geogregor said:


> But I think that the whole idea of DDI works best in places where there is a lot of traffic entering/leaving freeway. If most of the traffic is turning into freeway or coming from the freeway then synchronization along the arterial doesn't matter that much as relatively fewer cars drive just straight through the interchange.
> In places where very few drivers turn from the arterial to freeway then DDI might loose some of it advantages by blocking through traffic and disturbing synchronization.


Keep in mind that drivers entering the freeway still must drive thru one of the two traffic signals along the DDI before entering the freeway (for drivers making a left onto the freeway). Same goes for half the drivers exiting the freeway. Here is an innovative interchange design that has similar characteristics to a DDI but greatly improves progression since the traffic signals only need to stop one direction of travel along the arterial. The design also reduces the traffic volumes driving thru the signals by rerouting drivers turning left onto the freeway. It's called the Folded Interchange:


----------



## geogregor

^^
That looks interesting. Was it ever build somewhere? Would like to see one working.

But the loop slip roads require larger land footprint than DDI so I guess it couldn't be used everywhere.


----------



## tradephoric

geogregor said:


> ^^
> That looks interesting. Was it ever build somewhere? Would like to see one working.


 I don’t know of any that have been built. The interchange of US40 at I-695 is currently a Parclo B4 interchange in Frederick, Maryland that has been studied for conversion. The interchange in the picture posted above is at I-526 & Rivers Ave. in North Charleston, South Carolina. Out of the roughly 100 known Parclo B4 interchanges in the United States & Canada the Parclo B4 in North Charleston would be an ideal candidate to test out the folded interchange design (would require minimal costs to construct since Rivers Ave. has a 100 foot wide median and the bridge span of I-526 is long enough to fit the extra left-turn lanes). 



> But the loop slip roads require larger land footprint than DDI so I guess it couldn't be used everywhere.


The folded interchange is essentially a Parclo B4 interchange with the added Diverging Diamond type left turn feature. Of the cities where Parclo interchanges are widespread (i.e. Toronto and L.A), the Parclo A4 is chosen almost exclusively over the Parclo B4 (in the Toronto area there are roughly 100 Parclo A4's and zero Parclo B4's). It's tough to find interchanges that could easily be converted to a folded interchange mainly because the Parclo B4 is much less common than the A4 design.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 244 Tulsa, Oklahoma*

The I-244 bridges across the Arkansas River in Tulsa, Oklahoma are being replaced. The westbound bridge opened to traffic today. The westbound bridge cost $ 78 million and includes a lower deck for possible future rail. The eastbound bridge will be constructed starting next summer and costs $ 45 million.










Adjacent to the I-244 bridge is the historic 11th Street Bridge which opened in 1915 and carried U.S. Route 66. It is closed to traffic since 1980 and in quite a poor condition, even pedestrians are not allowed.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-93 Zakim Bridge, Boston, MA*


Boston, Zakim Bridge, New Lighting, December 2012 by MassDOT, on Flickr


----------



## diablo234

tradephoric said:


> I don’t know of any that have been built. The interchange of US40 at I-695 is currently a Parclo B4 interchange in Frederick, Maryland that has been studied for conversion.


Did you mean Catonsville, MD by any chance? 

I-695 runs nowhere near Frederick, MD.


----------



## weava

ChrisZwolle said:


> I kept track of new freeway openings in the United States this year.
> 
> In 2012, 231 miles of new freeway opened to traffic in 13 states (as of today). Indiana opened the most, with 67 miles of new freeway, all of it belongs to I-69. Follow-up is Texas with 48 miles of new freeway. Wisconsin comes in third with 31 miles of new freeway. California and Missouri opened just 3 miles each. I excluded the upgrade of US 71 to I-49 in Missouri because most of it was done prior to 2012.
> 
> This includes Interstate Highways, U.S. Highways and State Highways built to freeway standards.


71 to I-49 actually did include a lot of upgrades because it wasn't a freeway. Over the last 2 years they removed 15 at grade crossings with overpasses and had to add access roads along parts of it where people had driveways coming right off of 71.


----------



## tradephoric

diablo234 said:


> Did you mean Catonsville, MD by any chance?
> 
> I-695 runs nowhere near Frederick, MD.


Yes. I did indeed mean Catonsville, MD! For whatever reason the study i read listed the city as Frederick.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

weava said:


> 71 to I-49 actually did include a lot of upgrades because it wasn't a freeway. Over the last 2 years they removed 15 at grade crossings with overpasses and had to add access roads along parts of it where people had driveways coming right off of 71.


True, but they didn't add any new mileage. It was a reconstruction of the existing roadway. 

Upgrades of existing roads into freeways are often hard to get into statistics. Often they open just one interchange at the time and frequently they even partially open interchanges, making it hard to give an exact opening date.


----------



## Penn's Woods

tradephoric said:


> Yes. I did indeed mean Catonsville, MD! For whatever reason the study i read listed the city as Frederick.


US 40 is named Frederick Road there. I think....


----------



## gannman1975

Penn's Woods said:


> US 40 is named Frederick Road there. I think....


US 40 is Baltimore National Pike at that location. There is an interchange on I-695 a bit further down at MD 144 that is undergoing reconstruction/bridge replacement - this road is called Frederick Rd


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^And I was thinking of Edmonson too; that's why I was hesitant.

:cheers:


----------



## gannman1975

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^And I was thinking of Edmonson too; that's why I was hesitant.
> 
> :cheers:


40 does do a number of name-changes in the Baltimore area. It enters the City as Pulaski Highway from the NE. At about Ellwood Ave, it veers right to become Orleans St. Once it crosses the viaduct into Downtown, it splits to become a pair of one-way streets (Franklin St WB, Mulberry St EB). Aside from a brief stint on the old I-170 "freeway to nowhere", US40 continues as such until just west of the Amtrak overpasses to merge into one street, carrying the Franklin St name. This soon ends at a T-intersection at Edmondson Ave, as 40 picks this name up. Just before the City-County line to the west, Edmondson branches off to the left, and 40 becomes Baltimore National Pike.


----------



## tradephoric

Here are SimTraffic models of a PARCLO B4 Interchange and a Folded Interchange. Each model is running the same traffic volumes for each turning movement. *

PARCLO B4 INTERCHANGE*







The PARCLO B4 is a great interchange design as it improves coordination along the arterial while reducing delays for drivers coming off the freeway (when compared to the PARCLO A4). 

The Folded Interchange improves on the basic PARCLO B4 design by rerouting the left-turners on the arterial. It allows the vehicles on the arterial entering onto the freeway to bypass one set of traffic signals improving overall arterial capacity.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-95 in Philadelphia.


Philadelphia Skyline by I.C. Ligget, on Flickr


----------



## xrtn2

^^ great view:cheers::cheers: Merry christmas:cheers:


----------



## geogregor

Yeah, great shot! :cheers:


----------



## jchernin

Cool video:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-95, I-395, I-495, Springfield Interchange, VA*

Springfield Interchange again? Yes, because it's one-of-a-kind and probably the only one along the East Coast that can outdo Texas.


Springfield Interchange by VaDOT, on Flickr


----------



## diablo234

ChrisZwolle said:


> Springfield Interchange again? Yes, because it's one-of-a-kind and probably the only one along the East Coast that can outdo Texas.


If by the East Coast you mean the "East Coast" in it's entirety and not the "Northeast" then I would argue that the Spaghetti Junction in Atlanta is just as impressive.











Panaramic view of spaghetti junction - Atlanta GA. by Sharondelphia, on Flickr


Spaghetti Junction (I-85/I-285) by CosmoPhotography, on Flickr


----------



## Tom 958

diablo234 said:


> If by the East Coast you mean the "East Coast" in it's entirety and not the "Northeast" then I would argue that the Spaghetti Junction in Atlanta is just as impressive.


Uh, no. The Springfield has segregated HOV-to-HOV ramps in two directions, which kicks the impressiveness quotient to a whole 'nother level. Spaghetti Junction is taller and looks better, but it's not in the same league.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I agree. The Spaghetti Junction is impressive, but in the end is a fairly regular symmetrical stack of which there are dozens in Texas.


----------



## Rail Claimore

ChrisZwolle said:


> I agree. The Spaghetti Junction is impressive, but in the end is a fairly regular symmetrical stack of which there are dozens in Texas.


What makes Spaghetti Junction impressive is that it, and others in Atlanta, were built in the 1980's when California-style box girders were popular for ramps. That's why it not only has the scale of a typical Southern California interchange, it has the look as well.

The Springfield Interchange is much bigger and more complex, but it's not as tall as Spaghetti Junction in Atlanta or most interchanges in Texas or California. In fact, it's quite underwhelming in person compared to its size on a map.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Rail Claimore said:


> What makes Spaghetti Junction impressive is that it, and others in Atlanta, were built in the 1980's when California-style box girders were popular for ramps. That's why it not only has the scale of a typical Southern California interchange, it has the look as well.
> 
> The Springfield Interchange is much bigger and more complex, but it's not as tall as Spaghetti Junction in Atlanta or most interchanges in Texas or California. In fact, it's quite underwhelming in person compared to its size on a map.


That is true the Springfield interchange is really not that great to see in real life compared to Texas stacks or the one in Atlanta.


----------



## Squiggles

*Squiggles is on vacation!*

Taking a break from cold, dreary Wisconsin to go to the Rose Bowl in Pasadena, CA. First day we flew into Vegas, I lost a bit of cash. Day two is the drive from Vegas to our hotel in Santa Clarita. Here's some Interstate 15 from the car ride.





































And finally, a somewhat famous road name and exit in the middle of the California desert.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I see they added some kind of shoulder running or truck lanes along I-15. A widening on-the-cheap, but necessary.


----------



## Squiggles

The inclined areas of the freeway looked to be in good shape. The lanes are obviously for trucks and other heavy vehicles for getting through the hills, but traffic was so heavy that it just sort of created a third lane to loosen everything else up. The speed limit is 70 through most of the desert, but we dropped down below 30 numerous times.


----------



## Road_UK

Congestion in the desert?


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Holiday traffic between southern California and Vegas, I suppose....

(Closest I've ever been to there is L.A.)


----------



## mgk920

*It will be - 'I-41'*

AASHTO and the FHWA have laid their hands upon the US 41 corridor from just south of the Illinois-Wisconsin state line to I-43 in Howard (suburban Green Bay), WI and decreed that once a few construction-related and administrative loose ends are tied up, it will henceforth be known as 'I-41'. This new I-route will follow current I-894 and US 45 through Milwaukee County.

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/feds-ok-interstate-41-number

No word was given on the fate of the markings of current US 41 in the corridor, except that the part in Milwaukee County will be removed from the city streets and I-94 south of downtown and rerouted to follow the above routing.

(I would have preferred an extension of an existing I-route to the south, with my favorite being 'I-65', but IDOT was balking.)

Mike


----------



## mgk920

Road_UK said:


> Congestion in the desert?


I-15 between metro Los Angeles, CA and Las Vegas, NV frequently clogs up during holiday seasons. Traffic in that corridor is such that a private entity is working on serious plans to use Union Pacific's facilities to run passenger trains between Los Angeles Union Station and downtown Las Vegas.



Mike


----------



## Jeskaj

Last year I drove on the I-15 from Los Angeles to Las Vegas in summertime with much traffic on the road. (I suppose it was on 3th of July). Definitly one of my favourite Interstates.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't understand why they let I-41 begin at the Illinois border. This creates a useless multiplex with I-94. I'd say let it run from Milwaukee to Green Bay or extend I-55 or I-65 further north. 

Concurrencies are somewhat more common in the U.S. than they are in Europe. The roots, no doubt, lie in the fact that route numbering has historically been more important than in Europe. You will rarely find concurrencies of more than a dozen miles along European motorways (except for E-routes), while some American Interstate Highway concurrencies are over 100 miles long.


----------



## mgk920

ChrisZwolle said:


> I don't understand why they let I-41 begin at the Illinois border. This creates a useless multiplex with I-94. I'd say let it run from Milwaukee to Green Bay or extend I-55 or I-65 further north.
> 
> Concurrencies are somewhat more common in the U.S. than they are in Europe. The roots, no doubt, lie in the fact that route numbering has historically been more important than in Europe. You will rarely find concurrencies of more than a dozen miles along European motorways (except for E-routes), while some American Interstate Highway concurrencies are over 100 miles long.


I suspect that starting it at the border leaves the options open for it to someday be extended farther southward ( oke: ), perhaps to supplant US 41 in its corridor all the way to I-24 near Hokinsville, KY. That would be a much more direct route southward from the Chicagoland area towards the Nashville, Atlanta and beyond areas than current routes now are.

This also gives I-94 in the Chicago-Milwaukee corridor a proper and far less confusing north-south route number.

BTW, the longest I-route concurrency is I-80/90 between Gary, IN and Elyria, OH.

Mike


----------



## sotonsi

I-41 will start south of the WI/IL border, where the US41/I-94 concurrency to Milwaukee has its southern end.

It's not that they 'let' I-41 start there, it is that it is basically US41(I).


----------



## sotonsi

I-41 will start south of the WI/IL border, where the US41/I-94 concurrency to Milwaukee has its southern end.

It's not that they 'let' I-41 start there, it is that it is basically US41(I).


----------



## Penn's Woods

mgk920 said:


> I suspect that starting it at the border leaves the options open for it to someday be extended farther southward ( oke: ), perhaps to supplant US 41 in its corridor all the way to I-24 near Hokinsville, KY. That would be a much more direct route southward from the Chicagoland area towards the Nashville, Atlanta and beyond areas than current routes now are.
> 
> This also gives I-94 in the Chicago-Milwaukee corridor a proper and far less confusing north-south route number.
> 
> BTW, the longest I-route concurrency is I-80/90 between Gary, IN and Elyria, OH.
> 
> Mike


So the current 94 from just south of the state line to the 43/94/894 interchange will be 41/94? (And the east-west piece of 894 will be 41/43/894? Or are they dropping 894 so it'd just be 41/43? By the way, this gives us a wrong-way multiplex of 41 south/43 north and vice-versa, actually running east-west, through southwestern Milwaukee County, doesn't it?)


----------



## mgk920

Penn's Woods said:


> So the current 94 from just south of the state line to the 43/94/894 interchange will be 41/94? (And the east-west piece of 894 will be 41/43/894? Or are they dropping 894 so it'd just be 41/43? By the way, this gives us a wrong-way multiplex of 41 south/43 north and vice-versa, actually running east-west, through southwestern Milwaukee County, doesn't it?)


For now, I-894 will stay marked as such. Yes, it will be a wrong-way duplex and both I-routes will end at each other in the Green Bay area. This will be the third section of highway in the USA to carry three I-route numbers.

IMHO, I would also reroute I-94 to replace I-894, with I-94 between the Zoo and Marquette interchanges becoming 'I-794'. The part of I-94 between the Marquette and Mitchell interchanges would then simply be 'I-43'.

Mike


----------



## geogregor

Jeskaj said:


> Last year I drove on the I-15 from Los Angeles to Las Vegas in summertime with much traffic on the road. (I suppose it was on 3th of July). Definitly one of my favourite Interstates.


3 years ago I was driving on Friday evening from LA to Vegas and it was very busy all the way, even at 10-11pm. 
It is one of the places where bad lane discipline really affects the flow of traffic. Usually I don't mind on the rural interstates but here one or two morons hogging left lane can cause some major delays.
Does anyone knows what is the AADT on the desert stretch of I-15?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

geogregor said:


> Does anyone knows what is the AADT on the desert stretch of I-15?


About 150,000 vehicles just north of San Bernardino, 80,000 at Victorville, 71,000 at Barstow and between 32,000 and 40,000 through the Mojave Desert. Peak volumes are only somewhat higher (about 48,000) but more concentrated during peak hours, giving more the illusion of an 80,000 AADT freeway than a 40 - 50,000 AADT freeway.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Does "peak hours" out there - I'm thinking particularly of the stretch north of Barstow - mean weekends and holidays as opposed to weekday rush hours?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, exactly. People going to and from Las Vegas in the weekends and public holidays.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Manhattan Bridge, New York City*

The Manhattan Bridge turns 103 years old today. This bridge opened to traffic on December 31, 1909. It was the last suspension bridge to be constructed across the East River.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^The Throg's Neck, Whitestone and RFK (Triborough) aren't suspension bridges?

EDIT: I didn't mean that with the tone it may have. The three in question were opened in 1961, 1939 and 1936 respectively, and they look like suspension bridges to me but I'm not a bridge expert....


----------



## Suburbanist

*9 killed in tour bus crash along Oregon highway*

Major accident on I-84 in Pendleton, OR. 



> Bus driver lost control on I-84, which was covered with snow and ice.
> 
> *The stretch of rural Oregon interstate where a tour bus crashed through a guardrail and plummeted 100 feet down a steep embankment is so notorious that state transportation officials have published a specific advisory warning of its dangers.
> *
> Nine people were killed and more than two dozen injured when the charter bus veered out of control around 10:30 a.m. Sunday on snow- and ice-covered lanes of Interstate 84 in eastern Oregon, according to the Oregon State Police.
> 
> [...]
> 
> The area is well known locally for its hazards, and the state transportation department advises truck drivers that "some of the most changeable and severe weather conditions in the Northwest" can lead to slick conditions and poor visibility. Drivers are urged to use "extreme caution and defensive driving techniques," and warned that snow and black ice are common in the fall through the spring.
> 
> [...]


I think this is the location of the accident: http://goo.gl/maps/JnJXi


----------



## geogregor

Sad accident but it is awesome piece of highway from the scenic perspective.


----------



## Sunfuns

There are a lot of scenic roads in Oregon. The one I like a lot is route 66 (popularly known as Dead Indian road) from Ashland to Klamath Falls in Southern Oregon.


----------



## Welshlad

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^The Throg's Neck, Whitestone and RFK (Triborough) aren't suspension bridges?
> 
> EDIT: I didn't mean that with the tone it may have. The three in question were opened in 1961, 1939 and 1936 respectively, and they look like suspension bridges to me but I'm not a bridge expert....



You are right, they are all suspension bridges. I assume the original post is referring to bridges from Manhattan only


----------



## JohnFlint1985

any news on LBJ expressway work?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Not much in the last 2 months or so.

This is an October 2012 photo


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-70 New Mississippi Bridge, St. Louis*

Some October photos from the New Mississippi Bridge in St. Louis


mrb_6633 by missriverbridge_photos, on Flickr


mrb_6624 by missriverbridge_photos, on Flickr


mrb_6611 by missriverbridge_photos, on Flickr


mrb_6598 by missriverbridge_photos, on Flickr


mrb_6562 by missriverbridge_photos, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-85 / I-485 interchange, Charlotte, NC*


I-85/I-485 Interchange by NCDOTcommunications, on Flickr


I-85/I-485 Interchange by NCDOTcommunications, on Flickr


I-85/I-485 Interchange by NCDOTcommunications, on Flickr


----------



## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> mrb_6562 by missriverbridge_photos, on Flickr


That looks weird, the sharp turn that only the right roadway makes. Maybe because of the zoom?

Nice pics though :cheers:


----------



## Professor L Gee

keokiracer said:


> That looks weird, the sharp turn that only the right roadway makes. Maybe because of the zoom?
> 
> Nice pics though :cheers:


As I understand the renderings, that's where the interchange with existing I-70 and nearby Cass Avenue will begin from the bridge.


----------



## Nigel20

Awesome pics, Chris:cheers:


----------



## musiccity

Chris Zwolle, I drive through Birmingham regularly and I notice that the interchange connecting the future I-22 at I-65 is moving at a snail's pace. Once the interchange is complete then I-22 will officially be complete connecting Memphis to Birmingham. They have been working on this interchange for years though.

Here's a photo of it's construction from the Birmingham News










Do you have any further information?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That interchange was originally planned to be completed around 2010. The current plans call for a completion in October 2014, after which US 78 can be upgraded to Interstate 22. Currently Future I-22 does not connect to any other Interstate Highway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Over 200 miles of Interstate Highway 10 and about 90 miles of Interstate Highway 20 are closed in western Texas due to a blizzard. There are very few alternate routes in this area of West Texas.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-95 Miami metro area, Florida*

Toll Express lanes are considered for a 6 mile stretch of I-95 in Boca Raton. It would widen the freeway from 8 to 10 lanes. There appears to be some space in the median for that. Construction may begin in 2015.


----------



## Stuck in Bama

musiccity said:


> Chris Zwolle, I drive through Birmingham regularly and I notice that the interchange connecting the future I-22 at I-65 is moving at a snail's pace. Once the interchange is complete then I-22 will officially be complete connecting Memphis to Birmingham. They have been working on this interchange for years though.
> 
> Here's a photo of it's construction from the Birmingham News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any further information?


Construction on the interchange started in 2011, I think they are currently on schedule, but I think they havent started on the extension to US 31 though.


----------



## Stuck in Bama

ChrisZwolle said:


> That interchange was originally planned to be completed around 2010. The current plans call for a completion in October 2014, after which US 78 can be upgraded to Interstate 22. Currently Future I-22 does not connect to any other Interstate Highway.


There was a discussion between MSDOT and ALDOT on discontinuing US 78 west of Birmingham. I think the plan is when I-22 is completed, US 78 will remain on its original routing in Alabama.


----------



## Professor L Gee

Stuck in Bama said:


> There was a discussion between MSDOT and ALDOT on discontinuing US 78 west of Birmingham. I think the plan is when I-22 is completed, US 78 will remain on its original routing in Alabama.


As it should. I think it's a disservice when US routes are decommissioned when Interstates are built over/alongside them. They're the easiest alternate routes to follow in case of congestion, IMO.


----------



## Squiggles

Road_UK said:


> Congestion in the desert?



The congestion was awful. You can see just how heavy the traffic is from the rest stop. The road is 2 x 2 through this portion.


----------



## NFZANMNIM

End of breaks traffic?


----------



## Suburbanist

I think widening I-15 Victorville - North Las Vegas should be fairly cheap (1 extra lane per direction).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-35E, Dallas, TX*

The I-35E Managed Lanes. It's part of the LBJ Express project.


----------



## NFZANMNIM

what is the point of those lanes?


----------



## keokiracer

I guess they will be HOT lanes (so also non-2+ users can use them when they pay) so they can get the money back. And the traffic that will take the new lanes won't be taking the older lanes so they will be relieved from traffic.


----------



## diablo234

keokiracer said:


> I guess they will be HOT lanes (so also non-2+ users can use them when they pay) so they can get the money back. And the traffic that will take the new lanes won't be taking the older lanes so they will be relieved from traffic.


Yeah, the new lanes they are building on I-635, will be HOT lanes which will be free for carpools, but solo drivers will have to pay a toll which is based on traffic levels/time of day.


----------



## HAWC1506

I want this.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-495 Express Lanes, Northern Virginia*

The 495 Express Lanes are now visible on late October 2012 imagery.

West of the Springfield interchange









Typical cross-section


















Tysons Corner


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-10 / Loop 375, El Paso, Texas*

Another cloverleaf is eliminated in Texas, replaced by a large stack interchange.

It's the I-10 / Loop 375 interchange in eastern El Paso. The first phase opened today. The second phase includes the other direct connectors.


----------



## JohnFlint1985

ChrisZwolle said:


> The 495 Express Lanes are now visible on late October 2012 imagery.
> 
> 
> 
> Tysons Corner


 are they eliminating clover leaf here as well?


----------



## myosh_tino

HAWC1506 said:


> I want this.


I don't for obvious reasons... MUTCD violations, white guide signs, metric, improper typefaces, etc. Was this mockup meant to replace standard variable message signs (VMS) or supposed to be an exit direction signs with a small VMS integrated into it? Why are the control cities white-on-black? This kind of thing might work in Europe but not here.



Suburbanist said:


> I think widening I-15 Victorville - North Las Vegas should be fairly cheap (1 extra lane per direction).


I believe I-15 between Victorville and Barstow is already 6 lanes (3 each way). The only 4-lane section of I-15 is between Barstow and the California-Nevada stateline and I do wish Caltrans would get their rear-in-gear and widen that section of freeway.


----------



## NFZANMNIM

myosh_tino said:


> I don't for obvious reasons... MUTCD violations, white guide signs, metric, improper typefaces, etc. Was this mockup meant to replace standard variable message signs (VMS) or supposed to be an exit direction signs with a small VMS integrated into it? Why are the control cities white-on-black? This kind of thing might work in Europe but not here.


What's wrong with metrification? If Canada could do it why not the USA? Now the US is the last important country which does not follow metric units.


----------



## myosh_tino

Here's my drawing of signs in the previously posted photo that eliminates all of the European elements and brings it, more or less, in line with the current MUTCD although this might be a case where the new arrow-per-lane sign would be used...









Note: Just looked at the original drawing and there's an error in my drawing. Accident isn't 4 miles ahead, the backup is 4 miles long before SR-520. Oh well...



NFZANMNIM said:


> What's wrong with metrification? If Canada could do it why not the USA? Now the US is the last important country which does not follow metric units.


I'm not going to bother with this because all it results in is a flame war. All I will say is the U.S. is not going metric anytime soon.


----------



## Suburbanist

What are the chances of US doing some serious improvement of I-40 through the Appalachians? It is a very twisty road, with tight curves. They could build some new alignment with more tunnels and high viaducts.

Actually, it is quite impressive US has so few non-urban highway tunnels.


----------



## Paddington

I actually prefer the European forward signs. The American down signs are retarded.


----------



## NFZANMNIM

Yeah that is kinda sad that they don't wanna follow the metric system.
And for the signs they don't have to be europeanized. They can follow something simillar to the new South Korean System:
































Or the Ontarian system


----------



## JohnFlint1985

del


----------



## dl3000

Paddington said:


> I actually prefer the European forward signs. The American down signs are retarded.


I always thought the down arrows are actually pointing at the lanes like "this lane goes here"


----------



## brewerfan386

We do upward arrows over here:


















From the Federal MUTCD


----------



## NFZANMNIM

Very good! didn't expect the Americans to come up with such a neat design...


----------



## myosh_tino

In California, my home state, we do things a bit differently here. Big diagrammatic signs like Fig 2E-8 posted by Brewerfan are just about non-existant in California and my feeling is the Arrow-per-Lane diagrammatic is also going to be a rare site in California too.

Instead, we have a slightly different way of signing these types of exits...

Advance Guide Sign...









Advance Guide Sign w/Lane Drop Panels...









Exit Direction Sign...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-635 LBJ Express, Dallas, TX*

A new video of the I-635 LBJ Express project in Dallas.

a 21-lane cross section (excluding frontage roads).



























video:


----------



## flierfy

NFZANMNIM said:


> what is the point of those lanes?


To provide a smooth and uninterrupted ride for the rich.


----------



## Luki_SL

ChrisZwolle said:


> A new video of the I-635 LBJ Express project in Dallas.
> 
> a 21-lane cross section (excluding frontage roads).
> 
> 
> video:


Amazing project How long this 21-lane cross section will be?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The LBJ Express project covers this route. According to current driving times in Google Maps, driving the 11 mile segment takes you 32 minutes, and that's at 1:20 pm local time, not even rush hour.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

I just drove on 635 this past week, the project really is huge. I'm sure people can't wait for it to be done with, along with the many other highways under construction in that metro.


----------



## FM 2258

HAWC1506 said:


> I want this.


Ahhhh....my eyes! Please kill it! What I really miss is old school button copy US signs. I was so sad to see those go and love it when I see one that still exists.


----------



## NFZANMNIM

del


----------



## NFZANMNIM

some random road signs
Illinois:
















Texas
















Washington








New York


----------



## Squiggles

Suburbanist said:


> I think widening I-15 Victorville - North Las Vegas should be fairly cheap (1 extra lane per direction).


Mostly. But it does ride up on ridges somewhat, especially near the Mojave reserve. They'd need to do some earthmoving.


----------



## Paddington

dl3000 said:


> I always thought the down arrows are actually pointing at the lanes like "this lane goes here"


If you think about it, the down arrows are inconsistent. Exits point forward and to the right. To stay on the expressway, shouldn't arrows for those lanes point straight ahead (and towards the destination)?

I also rather like the thick forward arrow lane diagram schematics, though they probably make less sense at huge interchanges/many lanes where they can be difficult to read.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Mousetrap, Denver, CO*

An aerial photo of the "Mousetrap", which is the I-25 / I-70 interchange in Denver.










Some interesting background:

_One accident at the Mousetrap had national ramifications. On August 1, 1984, a truck carrying six torpedoes for the U.S. Navy overturned. The situation was made worse as no one answered at the phone number provided with the cargo, and an unknown liquid was leaking from one of the torpedoes. It took more than three hours before any military personnel arrived on the scene, U.S. Army personnel from a nearby base. The incident left thousands of cars stranded and Denver's transportation network paralyzed for about eight hours. Approximately 50 residents in the area were evacuated. Investigations later revealed that the truck driver did not follow a recommended route provided by officers, and was specifically warned to avoid the Mousetrap. The Navy promised reforms after being criticized for not providing a valid, staffed phone number with a hazardous cargo shipment, a violation of federal law, and failing to notify Denver officials about the shipment The incident provided momentum to rebuild the interchange with a more modern and safer design. Construction began in several phases in 1987 and the last bridge was dedicated in 2003._


----------



## Paddington

That looks similar to this:










Which is favored by Ohio's DOT for replacing many of the big, busy cloverleafs.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Triborough Bridge, New York City*

The Triborough Bridge in New York in the 1930s. You can see the former Downing Stadium which opened in 1936. You can see FDR Drive under construction (likely circa 1935-1936).









Photo: Dutch Road Authority Archives.


----------



## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Photo: Dutch Road Authority Archives.


Why would they have that pic in their archive? :nuts:


----------



## Paddington

They're spying.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^They're thinking of taking New Amsterdam back.


----------



## Road_UK

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^They're thinking of taking New Amsterdam back.


Why not just legalize cannabis like Washington and Colorado did?


----------



## Penn's Woods

Like Washington and Colorado (or their electorates) think they did. Federal law trumps.

But what does that have to do with the Dutch wanting to take back New York?


----------



## Xusein

>


I know that this is simply an example, but seeing this pic makes me laugh since I do regularly go down IRL.

Of course IRL, the state highway sign in CT is a square, and the exit is 33, not 49. And the control city for 72 is Bristol, not Plainville. 

CTDOT does need to replace a lot of it's signs in the Hartford area though, they are barely readable at night.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-676 Benjamin Franklin Bridge, Philadelphia*


Ben Franklin Bridge by I.C. Ligget, on Flickr


Ben Franklin Bridge by I.C. Ligget, on Flickr


----------



## ScraperDude

I just realized that I-75 nb has the Macinac Bridge listed as a control city on a BGS at exit 188. It's the first time I've ever seen a bridge listed as a long distance control city. Has anyone else seen this in other parts of the U.S.? I've seen it locally in cities close to the bridge or tunnel indicated but at this point on I-75 Macinac Bridge is about 160 miles away.


----------



## Penn's Woods

There are references to the Delaware Memorial Bridge (or "Del Mem Br") on I-295 in New Jersey in the Cherry Hill-Camden area. But we're talking 30 miles or so from the bridge....

Off Interstates, I believe the Chesapeake Bay Bridge (the one near Annapolis, not the bridge/tunnel near Norfolk) shows up a good distance from the bridge on US 301, it may be the control point for 301 southbound in Maryland east of the bay. (But not in Delaware, I think: at the "top" of 301, at US 40 south of Newark, Del., you see "Annapolis.") I'd guess that's the case on US 50 as well.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

US Department of Transportation secretary Ray LaHood is either fired or resigning for a second term.

http://www.dot.gov/briefing-room/us...ahood-announces-he-will-not-serve-second-term


----------



## Penn's Woods

It reads like a resignation. Lots of Cabinet members resign at the end of a President's term, even when he's reelected. (Look at Hillary Clinton, and she's not the only one who's left in the last few weeks.)


----------



## brewerfan386

Yep he quit: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...0ca3514-6a22-11e2-95b3-272d604a10a3_blog.html
As Penn said, mass resignations of Cabinet posts and staffers is normal after any presidential (re)election.


----------



## Exethalion

Regarding the arrows on signage:

I do not like the mixture of downward arrows for straight ahead, and upward angled arrows for exits. I prefer simply downward arrows above each lane, with more diagrammatic representations of the exit at the side of the road (or on larger sections, also at the median). Much like the British motorway system, although this too is often violated with upward arrows on above lane gantries.

What I like:
At the roadside or in the median









Above the roadway, at any point








EZTD at Flickr
It is hard to find a motorway gantry this perfect. 


I do not like this









Alternatively, Sweden have a decent upward arrow sysem


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Such signs do not tell you anything about the exit configuration in advance. Especially whether there are 1 or 2 exit lanes or a taper configuration.


----------



## Exethalion

Why would they not? A gantry placed before the exit lane becomes two would still sign that lane as an exit. With the proper placement of the corresponding destination/route signs above the downwards arrows, you can be quite sure of where your lane will take you. Drivers will prefer that to knowing the exact configuration of an exit.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

In case of taper exits, it increases the capacity of the exit if you know in advance whether there are 1 or 2 exit lanes. This can only be achieved by standing arrows. By the time you can install an overhead sign with two falling arrows everyone has queued behind exiting traffic, obstructing the flow of through traffic. Knowing the exit configuration improves traffic flow. A trial in the Netherlands showed traffic speeds were higher and congestion began later and solved earlier with standing arrows than with the situation with falling arrows.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Exethalion said:


> Regarding the arrows on signage:
> 
> I do not like the mixture of downward arrows for straight ahead, and upward angled arrows for exits. I prefer simply downward arrows above each lane, with more diagrammatic representations of the exit at the side of the road (or on larger sections, also at the median). Much like the British motorway system, although this too is often violated with upward arrows on above lane gantries.
> 
> What I like:
> At the roadside or in the median


^^My objection to this sort of thing is that if you read it from the top, as you'd usually read anything, the exits aren't in the order you'll come to them.




Exethalion said:


> ....
> 
> Above the roadway, at any point
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EZTD at Flickr
> It is hard to find a motorway gantry this perfect.


^^Feh. British motorway gantries are among the ugliest things on the planet.




Exethalion said:


> ....
> 
> I do not like this


^^It's not showing for me.




Exethalion said:


> ....
> 
> Alternatively, Sweden have a decent upward arrow sysem


^^This one, I have nothing to say about. 

:cheers:


----------



## sotonsi

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^My objection to this sort of thing is that if you read it from the top, as you'd usually read anything, the exits aren't in the order you'll come to them.


You are from a country that writes XING PED on the road - I don't think you should speak about order of words on signs! 

Given that fork signs are vertical representations of a horizontal reality, with where you are always at the bottom. This is consistent throughout all UK diagrammatic directional signage (and almost all signage everywhere) - cut through the poles and lay it flat face up and everything is in the correct order!

In the US, and this is what Exethalion's main point seemed to be, straight on are downward arrows, and turn off upward.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Well, I am not personally responsible for XING PED (and am trying to remember the last time I saw one...), so I don't see why it should preclude me from having personal opinions about, um, asynchronous signs. Or ugly gantries. 

But at least in that instance, the fact that you're sort of climbing up the text from the bottom, as it were, encourages you to read the bottom word first.

Actually, I'm not sure how uniform American treatment of this sort of thing is. Between being a federal country and every state not changing all its signs every time the national standard is updated, there's a lot out there. I do understand Exethalion's point. But generally, the signage works. If only because we're used to it.


----------



## Suburbanist

A tornado is reported to have hit many cars on I-75. Information about its true extent is sketchy at the moment,.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Where?


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ Adairsville, GA


----------



## myosh_tino

NFZANMNIM said:


> How about something like this?:


What you have posted would be an exit direction sign for CA-22 although the diagonal arrows would be up-and-right versus down-and-right. My drawings are advance guide signs that are upstream from the actual exit. Also, your signs would still violate the 2009 MUTCD because there are two down-arrows pointing to the same lane.

However, as part of the discussion on the AARoads Forum, I did create this sign drawing based on another member's suggestion that has some resemblance to your suggestion...










The only problem with this style is if the control city for CA-57 is "Sacramento" or "Philadelphia", it wouldn't fit on the sign.


----------



## NFZANMNIM

^^ I could use an up arrow sign. One thing I don't like and I try to avoid is the "Only" yellow box which looks akward. When the sign points accurately at every lane.
And BTW, for the part you said there are two arrows pointing at one lane, that depends on perspective. Like this picture:


----------



## NFZANMNIM

And this sign is simmilar to my desing (in some ways) and is in Louisiana:


----------



## myosh_tino

NFZANMNIM said:


> ^^ I could use an up arrow sign. One thing I don't like and I try to avoid is the "Only" yellow box which looks akward. When the sign points accurately at every lane.
> And BTW, for the part you said there are two arrows pointing at one lane, that depends on perspective. Like this picture:


That diagram appears to be from the 2003 MUTCD. The MUTCD was revised in 2009 and that diagram has been removed.


----------



## AUchamps

myosh_tino said:


> That diagram appears to be from the 2003 MUTCD. The MUTCD was revised in 2009 and that diagram has been removed.


Looks like Maryland, minus the wretched Clearview. Highway Gothic 4 Lyfe.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-5 Santa Ana Freeway, Norwalk, California*

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Interstate-5-Corridor-Improvement-Project-190102061.html

Construction begins on a one mile segment of I-5 in Norwalk (southeast of Los Angeles) to widen the freeway from six to ten lanes. It's a part of the multi-phase widening of I-5 between CA-91 and I-710 to 10 lanes. This is one of the worst bottlenecks in California, nearly all other freeways in the region have 10 lanes, but a 6-lane bottleneck remained for a long time near the county line.


----------



## Professor L Gee

myosh_tino said:


> The only problem with this style is if the control city for CA-57 is "Sacramento" or "Philadelphia", it wouldn't fit on the sign.


"Sacto" and "Phila."  (I've actually seen "Phila" on BGSs. No clue about "Sacto" though.)


----------



## diablo234




----------



## NFZANMNIM

^^ Nice video kay:
Also a nice music.
It still is funny for me after all the time I've been familliar with the subject that there still exists one significant country that uses units other than Km...


----------



## brewerfan386

^^
Lets not go there about the metric thing, unless you want 5-6 pages of utterly pointless flame war.


----------



## geogregor

NFZANMNIM said:


> ^^ Nice video kay:
> Also a nice music.
> It still is funny for me after all the time I've been familliar with the subject that there still exists one significant country that uses units other than Km...


UK also uses miles on roads, but lets not go to this discussion again


----------



## sotonsi

geogregor said:


> UK also uses miles on roads


Yes, that was quite a slight in the way it was phrased.

And yes, the metric/miles discussion isn't that fruitful.


----------



## brewerfan386

Now that we have established that having the metrication debate again is a complete waste of time and bytes... 
Here is the new Zoo Interchange (I-94/I-894/US 45/Future I-41) in Milwaukee, WI set to start construction this spring:








Project site: 
http://projects.511wi.gov/web/zoo-interchange-project


----------



## Interstate275Fla

ChrisZwolle said:


> Renderings of the Interstate 4 reconstruction that will take place between 2014 and 2020 and adds 4 express lanes in the median and entirely rebuilds the existing freeway. The project cost is $ 2.1 billion.


I agree, Interstate 4 through Orlando is in need of a desperate makeover despite so many widenings that have taken place over the years.

First, the Kirkman Road exit that ties in with Universal Studios Orlando. Those left lane exits are a hazard, especially when you are coming to Universal from the Tampa/St. Petersburg area and - all of a sudden - you have to be in the left lane if the variable message signs tell you to use Kirkman Road. Moreover, if you are not headed to Universal but you are staying in lodging that is immediately adjacent to Interstate 4 and Kirkman Road and if you are coming from the west, if your lodging is on the right hand (east) side of Kirkman coming off of eastbound Interstate 4 you have to do a quick yet dangerous merge to the right. I know this because I stayed on a few occasions at a hotel in this immediate area.

Second, the interchange with FL Toll 408 at Interstate 4 in downtown Orlando. The double trumpet interchange that connects FL Toll 408 with Interstate 4 was built in the early 1970's and is functionally obsolete. The ramp movements that I have seen in the renderings when constructed will make transitioning from FL Toll 408 (also known as the East-West Expressway) to Interstate 4 and vice versa much smoother and without having to change lanes as you have to do now on the trumpet interchange.

Overall, the improvements will bring a lot of relief to Orlando area motorists who use these roads daily, especially during the morning and evening commutes. Moreover, the Florida DOT is timing the improvements right: Construction is set to begin in 2014, right about the same time that the first segment of SunRail (Orlando's commuter rail system) is opened. I apologize for being slightly off topic; wouldn't the Florida DOT highly encourage commuters to consider using SunRail while the reconstruction of Interstate 4 takes place? It's been done before in Florida: Tri-Rail (South Florida's commuter rail system) was originally supposed to be a temporary commuter rail service while reconstruction of Interstate 95 was taking place; right after all was said and done on Interstate 95 reconstruction in the Miami/Ft. Lauderdale area Tri-Rail became a permanent fixture in the South Florida commuter landscape.


----------



## Tom 958

re Tennessee: I-24 West Chattanooga to Monteagle, one of the most interesting aspects of that stretch is... while most states have a favored bridge type that's used throughout a project, almost all of the bridges over I-24 west of Chattanooga have slightly different designs. Nothing really crazy, just a little bit different. In 2012 I drove this stretch twice a week and took some photos I'll probably never post, but the narrative I composed in my head had much to do with how in Georgia it was easy to tell when the successive sections of the route (I-75) were built due to the uniform design features from the period during which they were built. In Tennessee, not so much. In fact, my only clue as to when I-24 was built was the dip through Georgia, where the bridge designs were clearly from 1965. OK, Georgia dates its bridges, too, but the ones carrying I-24 there have a railing design that was used only for a very brief period-- in 1964-65.

That grade west of Monteagle, near the end of the video, could _really_ use a climbing lane in the eastbound direction. It's not unusual for truck drivers who are a little overoptimistic about how to drive that grade slow the traffic to 35 mph (50 kph) or so.


----------



## Jschmuck

> That grade west of Monteagle, near the end of the video, could really use a climbing lane in the eastbound direction. It's not unusual for truck drivers who are a little overoptimistic about how to drive that grade slow the traffic to 35 mph (50 kph) or so


over optimistic about passing then entering the left lane? or do you mean slowing traffic to 35mph in the right lane? 
we don't slow to 35 on purpose, we have the pedal to the metal(plastic) when going up hill, theres just a little bit of weight in our trailer being affected by gravity. That forces us to downshift otherwise the engine will stall from low RPM's (yes, sarcastic, condescending overtone, don't read too seriously) Yes there should be a truck climbing lane.

Now excuse me while I return to my FB games!


----------



## Rail Claimore

Jschmuck said:


> over optimistic about passing then entering the left lane? or do you mean slowing traffic to 35mph in the right lane?
> we don't slow to 35 on purpose, we have the pedal to the metal(plastic) when going up hill, theres just a little bit of weight in our trailer being affected by gravity. That forces us to downshift otherwise the engine will stall from low RPM's (yes, sarcastic, condescending overtone, don't read too seriously) Yes there should be a truck climbing lane.
> 
> Now excuse me while I return to my FB games!


I can only imagine, I have to downshift into 4th when climbing that thing in my little car, sometimes 3rd if I feel like passing a vehicle doing less than 50 in the right lane.


----------



## Tom 958

It might not even be the fault of the truck drivers. Maybe a car suddenly decides that the right lane isn't moving fast enough and whips out in front of a truck, causing it to lose speed that it can't regain because of the grade.

Anyway, as we've all noted, a third lane would be really good to have there. Even one that ran only on the upper mile or so would be better than nothing, though that's where the current roadbed is narrowest.


----------



## sirfreelancealot

Jschmuck said:


> over optimistic about passing then entering the left lane? or do you mean slowing traffic to 35mph in the right lane?
> we don't slow to 35 on purpose, we have the pedal to the metal(plastic) when going up hill, theres just a little bit of weight in our trailer being affected by gravity. That forces us to downshift otherwise the engine will stall from low RPM's (yes, sarcastic, condescending overtone, don't read too seriously) Yes there should be a truck climbing lane.
> 
> Now excuse me while I return to my FB games!


At least the US doesn't suffer from the phenomenon that is "elephant racing". In the UK and rest of Europe, trucks are governed to a maximum speed of 56mph (90kph). In reality there will be trucks that will max out at speeds between 55 and 57 mph and this creates a frequent situation where trucks will try and pass each over with a speed differential of less than 1mph, but on roads where the speed limit for most vehicles is 70mph. So as you can guess these situations can each lead to long lines of traffic platooning behind trucks taking miles to pass each other and this can cause congestion on routes, not because of high traffic levels but to "elephant racing" which are effectively 55mph rolling roadblocks. This happens on 2 lane dual carriageways (4 lane divided highways) as trucks are banned from using the 3rd lane on wider highways. There have even been times that the truck that has been passed will have to re-overtake the truck that took more then ten minutes to pass it because it has a heavy load and the next inclines has robbed it of mementum. So the frustration begins all over again. Quite often, because all traffic ends up queueing in the outside lane behind the passing truck, other trucks will undertake in the clear inside lane then barge in (their method usually involves indication, and crating a gap to force themselves into), so again more elephant racing and more frustration as others struggle to get past to a clear road ahead.


----------



## Suburbanist

The solution to that problem is banning trucks from overtaking on flattish sectors on busy 2x2 highways, confining them to the right lane.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*TEXpress lanes*

TXDOT added a funky new name to the already existing lineup of toll lanes, it's the TEXpress lane!

There are currently;

* HOV lanes
* HOT lanes
* express lanes
* managed lanes
* TEXpress lanes

Express and HOV lanes are free for carpools at all times. TEXpress lanes are not free, carpoolers have a 50% discount during peak travel and have to pay the posted toll at all other times. Transit vehicles (such as buses) are exempted from paying tolls at either system.

Here's the DFW system:


----------



## mgk920

*New section of interstate being marked*

The US 311 freeway in Forsythe County, NC, running between I-40 at Winston-Salem, NC and the Guilford County line near interchange 65 on the northwest side of the High Point, NC area, about 15 km, is now being marked as I-74. The High Point, NC bypass freeway was marked as I-74 a couple of years ago.

http://www.journalnow.com/news/loca...-a1ff-001a4bcf6878.html#.UTQ2sBSs41I.facebook

Location:
http://goo.gl/maps/b2Uuv

:dance:

Mike


----------



## xrtn2

^^

Good news:banana::banana:


----------



## Paddington

ChrisZwolle said:


> TXDOT added a funky new name to the already existing lineup of toll lanes, it's the TEXpress lane!
> 
> There are currently;
> 
> * HOV lanes
> * HOT lanes
> * express lanes
> * managed lanes
> * TEXpress lanes
> 
> Express and HOV lanes are free for carpools at all times. TEXpress lanes are not free, carpoolers have a 50% discount during peak travel and have to pay the posted toll at all other times. Transit vehicles (such as buses) are exempted from paying tolls at either system.
> 
> Here's the DFW system:


I'm a big fan of expressways. But Texas' transportation policy to just keep building them (with wacky new features like the above), just seems like a failure.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Eisenhower Tunnel, Colorado*

The Eisenhower Tunnel in I-70 west of Denver turns 40 years today.

On March 8th, 1973, the first tube of the Eisenhower Tunnel opened to traffic. It is the highest tunnel in the United States, in addition to being the highest freeway in the country. The second tube opened in 1979.


----------



## CNGL

^^ It is located at 11158 feet above sea level. That is 3401 meters , just three meters short from the highest point in my region.


----------



## tompaw

Hey Guys. I hope you don't mind if I ask for some help in this thread.

I will be driving from Miami (Downtown) to New York (Manhattan) on Fri, 15th, and I'm wondering which route to take and what timing would be the best. Here are some facts:

- I'm driving with a co-pilot,
- Our rental is Dodge Durango,
- The rental apparently works with auto-tolls, but only in FL,
- I don't mind other tolls, as long as I can pay card or cash,
- My check-in in NY is on 16th 3PM, so no rush,
- The longest ride we had so far was Marbella - Krakow.

So I was thinking maybe to leave early like, 2-3 AM, so we can escape Florida before the traffic kicks in? Also, I was thinking of getting a Go Pro cam to timelapse the whole thing. Any suggestions where to get it in Miami? And an iPad holder for Waze?

And most importantly - which route to take?

Thank you very much in advance!


----------



## geogregor

tompaw said:


> Hey Guys. I hope you don't mind if I ask for some help in this thread.
> 
> I will be driving from Miami (Downtown) to New York (Manhattan) on Fri, 15th, and I'm wondering which route to take and what timing would be the best. Here are some facts:
> 
> - I'm driving with a co-pilot,
> - Our rental is Dodge Durango,
> - The rental apparently works with auto-tolls, but only in FL,
> - I don't mind other tolls, as long as I can pay card or cash,
> - My check-in in NY is on 16th 3PM, so no rush,
> - The longest ride we had so far was Marbella - Krakow.
> 
> So I was thinking maybe to leave early like, 2-3 AM, so we can escape Florida before the traffic kicks in? Also, I was thinking of getting a Go Pro cam to timelapse the whole thing. Any suggestions where to get it in Miami? And an iPad holder for Waze?
> 
> And most importantly - which route to take?
> 
> Thank you very much in advance!


Take I-95 all the way. It will take you from downtown Miami all the way to Manhattan via George Washington Bridge.
You can also enter Manhattan via I-78 (Holland Tunnel)
Google calculated the distance as over 2000km. You will also have to cross few substantial metropolitan areas: Jacksonville, Richmond, Washington DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia which might slow you down.
It will be quite a journey to do just in one day.
Will your co-pilot drive as well?


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

tompaw said:


> Hey Guys. I hope you don't mind if I ask for some help in this thread.
> 
> I will be driving from Miami (Downtown) to New York (Manhattan) on Fri, 15th, and I'm wondering which route to take and what timing would be the best. Here are some facts:
> 
> - I'm driving with a co-pilot,
> - Our rental is Dodge Durango,
> - The rental apparently works with auto-tolls, but only in FL,
> - I don't mind other tolls, as long as I can pay card or cash,
> - My check-in in NY is on 16th 3PM, so no rush,
> - The longest ride we had so far was Marbella - Krakow.
> 
> So I was thinking maybe to leave early like, 2-3 AM, so we can escape Florida before the traffic kicks in? Also, I was thinking of getting a Go Pro cam to timelapse the whole thing. Any suggestions where to get it in Miami? And an iPad holder for Waze?
> 
> And most importantly - which route to take?
> 
> Thank you very much in advance!


I've done this drive enough starting in my city though, but I have some advice for you. It likely will take you about 5 hours to leave Florida, you will likely be out around 7-8am. Jacksonville has a pretty good road network so I highly doubt you will see rush hour traffic there. Unfortunately you will not be early enough to avoid the speed traps Georgia has leaving Florida so watch your speed, very smart using waze, its fairly accurate. 

Once you are in South Carolina/North Carolina its usually not as bad, I usually do about 10mph over. However once you get into Virginia they are notorious for catching speeders along I-95, I would only go 5mph faster than the speed limit and even worse you will get stuck in traffic in DC, its usually very bad. However up until this point your drive would have been not very scenic and boring (From Florida to Virginia) but now you will at least start seeing some of the northern cities. Once you are near Baltimore, Maryland watch out when driving through construction zones, they have white vans/SUV's that are on the side of the road with speed cameras in them. Also keep in mind around this time if you have been continuously driving you will be in rush hour traffic. Just to give you an idea how bad it can be I've been stuck in traffic from New Jersey to Baltimore on a Sunday during the day, be prepared. 

Depending on how traffic was for you then you will arrive in Philadelphia after 17-20 hours of driving sometime between 7-10pm. Hopefully traffic will be light and you can drive by the city at night and then go to the New Jersey Turnpike. From here it should be a smooth drive especially considering it will be night time by this point. Once you near Jersey City it is possible you may hit traffic even at night but probably not, its $8.50 to cross into Manhattan via tunnel and you should be there. The fastest you will get there is maybe 19 hours but depending on traffic it could take as long as 24 hours. It is very doable in one day, I've done it about 5 times I think. 

Lastly you could also take the "inland route" as I call it, I've taken it both going north and returning south and prefer it over I-95. There is less traffic, fuel is cheaper, you have small mountains starting in North Carolina so at least it will be scenic, much less police, etc. It is about 20 hours of driving for you but it is very unlikely you will hit traffic most of the way. Just a suggestion from somebody who prefers this route to I-95. 

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=...8LyA&oq=new&t=h&mra=dpe&mrsp=1&sz=6&via=1&z=6


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## Jschmuck

^^ ah yes I-77 to I-81, it bypasses ALL of the major cities after Florida except Charlotte. When approaching Charlotte take I-485 west if you are approaching on rush hour. If you take I-95, bypass Richmond on I-295. FYI this I-77 to I-81 route gets busy as well as I-95.


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## tompaw

Thank you very much for your advices, gentlemen.

Yes, my co-pilot drives as well and we've done plenty of road trips in europe together (I actually ended up marrying her ). The car is big and comfy, so there's always an option for an emergency nap.

As I said, we have plenty of time, so maybe we decide to actually sleep for a few hours. If we leave Miami 5am'ish, we have 34 hours before our check in. Do you have any places to recommend along the way as far as food/shop/view is concerned?

Still hunting for a decent ipad mount...


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

tompaw said:


> Thank you very much for your advices, gentlemen.
> 
> Yes, my co-pilot drives as well and we've done plenty of road trips in europe together (I actually ended up marrying her ). The car is big and comfy, so there's always an option for an emergency nap.
> 
> As I said, we have plenty of time, so maybe we decide to actually sleep for a few hours. If we leave Miami 5am'ish, we have 34 hours before our check in. Do you have any places to recommend along the way as far as food/shop/view is concerned?
> 
> Still hunting for a decent ipad mount...


I would recommend visiting Philadelphia, I actually haven't been there yet myself but I hear its an interesting city. You could stop and get a Philly Cheesesteak sandwich, Geno's or Pats are the famous ones lol. You could also see DC, many landmarks and has somewhat of a european feel. For shopping since its on the way as well you could go to Delaware since they have no sales tax so you get more stuff for your money!


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## Botev1912

Washington, DC is 100 times better than Manhattan.


----------



## geogregor

Botev1912 said:


> Washington, DC is 100 times better than Manhattan.


????
I would say they are just different. Hard to say which is better. 
Washington have some excellent free museums but Manhattan is the urban heart of America. Both are equally attractive if you ask me, just in their own ways.


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## ChrisZwolle

021813 I-84 Graphic copy by OregonDOT, on Flickr


----------



## Interstate275Fla

tompaw said:


> Hey Guys. I hope you don't mind if I ask for some help in this thread.
> 
> I will be driving from Miami (Downtown) to New York (Manhattan) on Fri, 15th, and I'm wondering which route to take and what timing would be the best. Here are some facts:
> 
> - I'm driving with a co-pilot,
> - Our rental is Dodge Durango,
> - The rental apparently works with auto-tolls, but only in FL,
> - I don't mind other tolls, as long as I can pay card or cash,
> - My check-in in NY is on 16th 3PM, so no rush,
> - The longest ride we had so far was Marbella - Krakow.
> 
> So I was thinking maybe to leave early like, 2-3 AM, so we can escape Florida before the traffic kicks in? Also, I was thinking of getting a Go Pro cam to timelapse the whole thing. Any suggestions where to get it in Miami? And an iPad holder for Waze?
> 
> And most importantly - which route to take?
> 
> Thank you very much in advance!


I will agree many more on what I275Westcoastfl has said about driving from Miami to New York City. Interstate 95 is a straight shot going up the Florida east coast and crossing the Florida/Georgia border north of Jacksonville. However, there are alternatives if you are interested. That said:

1. A good alternative to Interstate 95 about almost a half of the way would be to follow the Florida Turnpike north through Orlando to Interstate 75 at Wildwood. Continue north on Interstate 75, crossing the Florida/Georgia border until you get to Interstate 285, which will be the Atlanta bypass. Believe me, I have driven through metro Atlanta traffic on a couple of occasions (that was over ten years ago) and traffic backs up on Interstates 75 and 85 during rush hour!

Once at Interstate 285 follow it to Interstate 85 north. Continue north on Interstate 85 - you'll go through Greenville, South Carolina and Charlotte, North Carolina and before you know it you'll cross the North Carolina/Virginia border as Interstate 85 ends at Interstate 95 south of the Richmond-Petersburg area.

2. Washington, DC area: Take the Beltway, Interstates 95 and 495. That will get you around the Washington, DC metro area.

3. Baltimore: Traffic on Interstate 95 can back up during rush hour. Interstate 695 (the Baltimore loop including the Francis Scott Key Bridge) is your best bet.

4. Once you are on Interstate 95 north over the Maryland/Delaware border, exit onto Interstate 295 in which you will see signs for the Delaware Memorial Bridge as well as the entrance to the New Jersey Turnpike - this will enable you to bypass Philadelphia and should take you straight to New York City.

As I275Westcoastfl has mentioned, please be extremely careful when going through Georgia and Virginia - these states are very strict on speed enforcement. One time I drove out of the Washington, DC area on Interstate 66 to get to Interstate 81 and eventually back home to Florida there were plenty of Virginia State Police parked everywhere you can imagine.

As for your rental, it probably has its license plate registered through SunPass by your car rental company that enables you to use a Florida based toll road or bridge and your car rental company will bill you for the tolls. However, outside Florida this will not work as the states that Interstate 95 passes through in the northeastern US belong to the EZ-Pass toll consortium. For toll facilities outside Florida having cash is important - credit cards are not accepted!

Another great alternative - if your budget will allow (and my apologies for being slightly OT) - is the use of Amtrak's Auto Train from Sanford, Florida (just outside Orlando) to Lorton, Virginia (south of Washington, DC and it's on Interstate 95). This will save you over 900 miles of driving and you can even take your rental car with you. If you want more information on this simply send me a private message, as I don't want to go off topic.

I just thought I would share some alternatives with you. Have a safe trip!


----------



## tompaw

Thanks again for your feedback, those tips are priceless and will surely make my trip much easier!

Interstate275Fla: believe it or not, but I actually considered the Auto-Train option. I am a regular passanger of AutoZug from Berlin to Narbonne and I simply love this service. Unfortunately, all the tickets are already sold for Friday. This is something that troubles AutoZug as well - you have to book months (sic!) in advance in order to get on board...

I found a decent ipad mount from RAM, so I will be wazed during my trip. I promise to come back to you afterwards to share the experience!

One last question is: which of the routes (95 vs Turnpike + 75 + 85) is less boring and flat? Don't get me wrong - I love long haul drives, but I checked I95 on street view and it seems the same for 600 miles... almost like Belgium 

Update2: I found the EZ-Pass On-the-Go option, where I can simply walk in and pick up a $25 prepaid tag. Maybe that is something worth looking at?


----------



## diablo234

tompaw said:


> One last question is: which of the routes (95 vs Turnpike + 75 + 85) is less boring and flat? Don't get me wrong - I love long haul drives, but I checked I95 on street view and it seems the same for 600 miles... almost like Belgium


I-95 from Florida all the way up to Virginia is pretty monotonous however there are several interesting cities along the route such as Charleston and Savannah (Charleston is a bit out of the way however).

Anyways unless if you are planning to stop in Atlanta as well then I don't see the logic in taking I-75 to I-85 at it is way out of the way (plus I-75 south of Atlanta is pretty flat/boring as well). If you are planning to drive from Florida to NYC you are better off taking I-95 to I-77 to I-81 to I-78 as it more direct plus you get to experience more "hilly" terrain.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

tompaw said:


> Thanks again for your feedback, those tips are priceless and will surely make my trip much easier!
> 
> Interstate275Fla: believe it or not, but I actually considered the Auto-Train option. I am a regular passanger of AutoZug from Berlin to Narbonne and I simply love this service. Unfortunately, all the tickets are already sold for Friday. This is something that troubles AutoZug as well - you have to book months (sic!) in advance in order to get on board...


Amtrak is pretty slow and you'll probably spend the same amount if not more on a ticket as you would fuel, you are better off driving! 



> I found a decent ipad mount from RAM, so I will be wazed during my trip. I promise to come back to you afterwards to share the experience!


Let us know and please take pics! One question, are you going to have a data plan for the iPad? 

One last question is: which of the routes (95 vs Turnpike + 75 + 85) is less boring and flat? Don't get me wrong - I love long haul drives, but I checked I95 on street view and it seems the same for 600 miles... almost like Belgium 

Update2: I found the EZ-Pass On-the-Go option, where I can simply walk in and pick up a $25 prepaid tag. Maybe that is something worth looking at?[/QUOTE]
As diablo said about half your trip along I-95 is boring with nothing to see. If you choose to do I-75 its boring until Atlanta which it becomes a rush in my opinion. As a European-American I can tell you the massive winding Atlanta freeways are an experience, especially if you like driving. Altanta has a 55mph but almost nobody follows it, of course if you go above the limit there is always a risk of being pulled over but its not likely with as many cars as there are in Atlanta.

I drive I-75 to the mountains of North Carolina/Tennessee at least twice a year, from my experience as long as you are through Atlanta between 10am-2pm you will be fine traffic wise. You may hit a slow down near downtown but from my experience you should drive through with no issues. Unfortuately I-85 has some hilly terrain but most of the interesting stuff is further north of it, mountains still start in North Carolina. Also in Florida I would just take I-10 across to I-75, its honestly pretty quick especially at the time of the day you are planning, save money on tolls. Really it would be up to you whether you want to take I-75. This option is about 2 hours longer than the "inland route I was speaking of earlier. 

Here is a video of mine from 2011, it was sometime around 2pm. Pretty much what you'll see.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-10 / SH 99 interchange, Houston, TX*

The I-10 / SH 99 (Grand Parkway) interchange progress in Katy, Texas (just west of Houston). 









_Photo by ScrewdupclickV2._


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## tompaw

I-275westcoastfl: got data plans on all the devices, and gopro 3 mounted to my windshield


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## zaphod

The other end of the Grand Parkway at US 290 looks to be about that stage of completion as well. I just went to the outlet mall which is adjacent to it.


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## I-275westcoastfl

tompaw said:


> I-275westcoastfl: got data plans on all the devices, and gopro 3 mounted to my windshield


Good. :cheers:


----------



## Professor L Gee

diablo234 said:


> I-95 from Florida all the way up to Virginia is pretty monotonous however there are several interesting cities along the route such as Charleston and Savannah (Charleston is a bit out of the way however).
> 
> Anyways unless if you are planning to stop in Atlanta as well then I don't see the logic in taking I-75 to I-85 at it is way out of the way (plus I-75 south of Atlanta is pretty flat/boring as well). If you are planning to drive from Florida to NYC you are better off taking *I-95 to I-77* to I-81 to I-78 as it more direct plus you get to experience more "hilly" terrain.


Missing link. Either you meant 85 to 77 or you left out a route somewhere. 

I would add that I-85 north of Durham all the way to its end in Petersburg is quite boring as well. Unfortunately for me, it's the only way to get to my wife's family's town from GA.


----------



## diablo234

Professor L Gee said:


> Missing link. Either you meant 85 to 77 or you left out a route somewhere.
> 
> I would add that I-85 north of Durham all the way to its end in Petersburg is quite boring as well. Unfortunately for me, it's the only way to get to my wife's family's town from GA.


Yeah, I left out I-26.

Thanks for catching that. :doh:


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-70 New Mississippi Bridge, St. Louis*

Progress as of this weekend.

D5636_CM_R2-42 by MoDOT Photos, on Flickr


D5636_CM-13 by MoDOT Photos, on Flickr


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## italystf

I was looking at the I-70 in Utah on Google Maps, that is interesting because it runs truly in the middle of nowhere for hundreds of km.
At a certain point there is this: quite weird for an interstate (motorway\expressway), isn't it? Are there many places like that in the USA?


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## Botev1912

I have never seen something like this on an interstate


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## I-275westcoastfl

It is likely because its in the middle of nowhere and that dirt road is likely almost never used either.


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## diablo234

italystf said:


> I was looking at the I-70 in Utah on Google Maps, that is interesting because it runs truly in the middle of nowhere for hundreds of km.
> At a certain point there is this: quite weird for an interstate (motorway\expressway), isn't it? Are there many places like that in the USA?


I-10 in Texas has a few at grade intersections as well in sparsely populated West Texas. They are only allowed because traffic levels on those intersecting roads are extremely low (mostly they just serve one property) and that there are no other roadways in the area.


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-64 / I-95 Richmond, VA*

Bridge deck replacement in one weekend 101.


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## mgk920

italystf said:


> I was looking at the I-70 in Utah on Google Maps, that is interesting because it runs truly in the middle of nowhere for hundreds of km.
> At a certain point there is this: quite weird for an interstate (motorway\expressway), isn't it? Are there many places like that in the USA?


Not unusual at all. Many interstates run through very remote and sparsely populated territory. It is difficult for many, especially Europeans, to imagine that despite the USA being the third most populous country on the planet (about 315M), there are vast sections of it that are essentially uninhabited - and some of those areas are crossed by major transport corridors.

And in those areas, it is not unusual for the authorities to relax some of the interstate highway design standards where the utility of that access, where there would otherwise be no way in or out, does not warrant the cost of a full standard interchange.

Also, on many parts of the interstate system, mostly in the more rural parts of the western USA, pedestrians and bicycles are legal - just keep as far to the right as possible. The very long sight lines and relatively light traffic in those areas mean that safety isn't all that much of an issue.

Mike


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## Aurelian

> *United States Infrastructure Scores D+ in New ASCE Report*
> 
> Every four years the American Society of Civil Engineers releases a report on the state of the nation’s infrastructure – and every year the United States receives an abysmal rating. But for the first time in 15 years, the United States actually saw an improvement in the latest report. Before you get too excited, the rating was raised from really bad to a little less really bad. For 2013, the country received a D+ on its report card, which is up from the D that it received in 2009. If the United States were a High School student, it would be on the crumbling road to summer school.
> 
> The ASCE uses the familiar letter grading system (from A down to F) to issue a report card for the nation’s infrastructure. In 1988, the year that the report was first issued, the nation received an overall score of C-minus.
> 
> In reviewing infrastructure, the ASCE looks at dams, waste, transportation, and public facilities and while the US may have improved overall, it still has a long way to go, particularly in areas like levees and inland waterway structures, which received a D-minus rating. The country’s best rating was in solid waste, which received a B-minus. Dams, roads, drinking water and aviation all received a D.
> 
> According to the report, the US needs to invest $3.6 trillion by 2020 in order to maintain a good state of repair. Many departments, like dams, receive one-third of the funding necessary to keep things running in good shape. Levees receive one-tenth of what they need. Without serious investment, a D-plus may just be the highest grade the United States can aspire to.


http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/1vrZN...s-infrastructure-scores-d-in-new-asce-report/


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## Rail Claimore

italystf said:


> I was looking at the I-70 in Utah on Google Maps, that is interesting because it runs truly in the middle of nowhere for hundreds of km.


The entire interstate system in the western US south of I-80 is geared toward long-haul traffic to and from Los Angeles.


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## Suburbanist

Rail Claimore said:


> The entire interstate system in the western US south of I-80 is geared toward long-haul traffic to and from Los Angeles.


Not actually. Phoenix is the 13th most populated metropolitan statistical area in US. I-25 carries a lot of traffic to/from Mexico.


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## Woonsocket54

On March 25, the Devil's Slide Tunnel opened on Highway 1 near Pacifica, CA, south of San Francisco.

Photos from San Francisco Chronicle:
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Devil-s-Slide-tunnel-grassroots-success-4383370.php









Tony Dominski of Pacifica represents the namesake of Devil's Slide at the invitation-only event to mark the opening of the 4,200-foot tunnel on Highway 1 along the San Mateo County coast. Photo: Mike Kepka, The Chronicle









After a walk through the tunnel and a series of speeches, a historic parade of cars passes through the tunnel, which is set to be open to the public Tuesday. Photo: Mike Kepka, The Chronicle









Dressed as the Devil himself, Tony Dominski of Pacifica makes and appearance for the grand opening of the Devils Slide tunnel on Monday March 25, 2013 in Montara, Calif. Photo: Mike Kepka, The Chronicle









Josh Swanson and Jack Padilla walk through the North bound bore before the grand opening of the Devils Slide tunnel on Monday March 25, 2013 in Montara, Calif. Photo: Mike Kepka, The Chronicle


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## desertpunk

*I-20 westbound into Birmingham AL*


Approaching Birmingham, Alabama, I-20 Westbound by Ken Lund, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 5 - Santa Ana Freeway, Los Angeles metro area*

The schedule for the I-5 upgrade (widening to 10 lanes) between CA-91 (Riverside Fwy) and I-605 (San Gabriel River Valley Fwy).


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## dl3000

That project is desperately needed. I'm not one to advocate for large-scale highway expansion, but that is one of the worst stretches of freeway in the whole LA region.


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-22, Alabama*

The first signs with I-22 went up in Marion County, Alabama.









Kudos to AAroads forum.


----------



## HAWC1506

ttownfeen said:


> I don't think most Americans would grasp the different between an "advised" speed limit, and a "mandatory" speed limit. All speed limits are mandatory here but are only treaty as a general guideline by drivers (me included).


Washington state uses yellow advisory speed limit signs for "speed zones". Often on exit slips and sharp curves.

Minnesota's variable speed limit system is all advisory speed limits. Their electronic signs display a yellow number with "MPH" at the bottom, I believe.

So it's already in use. Perhaps not obeyed, but it exists widely


----------



## miketpa

*More Tolls on Interstates*

What are your thoughts on more tolls on highways? Here in FL it was recently announced that we should expect tolls on pretty much every interstate highway w/in the state in the not too distant future. At first I thought that was ridiculous that then we couldn't really drive anywhere without being forced to pay a toll. Then on second thought it might help to change some of that very flawed and pervasive thinking most Americans have that "roads are free, but trains should completely pay for themselves". Most people don't realize they are already paying income tax to supplement roads, gas taxes, some tolls, property taxes, in addition to their $500 a month car payment, $150 a month for insurance and $150 a month for gas.


----------



## xrtn2

mcarling said:


> Really? I've never seen a simple red circle (such as in the photos above) used in the States to mean prohibited. In the States, a red circle with a diagonal slash through it means prohibited.


Here mandatory signs has a red circle:









:nuts:


----------



## HAWC1506

xrtn2 said:


> Here mandatory signs has a red circle:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :nuts:


He's right. Restrictive signs in the U.S. usually contain a red circle with a slash through it. It's not ideal since it covers up half the pictogram.

I'm surprised the signset you posted has mandatory actions in red. It makes more logical sense to have them be blue...Are those standard South American signs?


----------



## bozenBDJ

xrtn2 said:


> Here mandatory signs has a red circle:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :nuts:


_Those kinds of signs are *also *the standard here in Indonesia _


----------



## xrtn2

HAWC1506 said:


> I'm surprised the signset you posted has mandatory actions in red. It makes more logical sense to have them be blue...Are those standard South American signs?


Not, Argentine and Uruguay has blue ones, Chile has both blue and red and Brazil and Colombia has just red ones.

That's brazilian:


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## xrtn2

bozenBDJ said:


> _Those kinds of signs are *also *the standard here in Indonesia _


???

Blue or Red ?:nuts::nuts:









Indonesian Forum.


----------



## bozenBDJ

xrtn2 said:


> ???
> 
> Blue or Red ?:nuts::nuts:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indonesian Forum.


_At the *DPS Airport*:_








_*see *that *red *sign?_


----------



## xrtn2

^^

Yes but this isnt a mandatory sign.

This sign its common in Europe too.


----------



## muc

Whether or not a sign is mandatory is usually determined by the shape, not color in Europe signage.

in general:
round: mandatory signs (restrictions, directions)
triangular: warning signs
rectangular: information

The color of red generally means something is limited or forbidden. Blue means something is allowed or enforced.

Though that's more a general rule of thumb, not an exact definition. You might find a lot of exceptions.


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## Exethalion

In the U.K., all mandatory signs are circular (unless text based). Almost all are white background with red border. Prohibitions have the diagonal red line. There are a few odd exceptions such as minimum speed limit (very rare), clearway (blue background with 2 red diagonals), national speed limit (white and black), and the directional signs (blue background with white border).

Note the difference between these two:


















One forbids cycling, and one advises that there are cyclists.

As far as I know, most of the EU follow the same principle with regards to circular mandatory, triangular warning and rectangular information. The usage of colours and diagonal lines may vary.


----------



## mubd

In Australia, any signs with mandatory instructions on them are on a rounded rectangle with a white background.










Warning or advisory signs are black text or symbols on a yellow diamond or rectangle

















Seems easy enough to remember, but we were talking about the VMS in Washington right?

I didn't really get the full gist of the first post - was this just to see what the European style symbols would look like, or are the VMSes going to be running with those symbols from the day the road opens?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 75 managed lanes, Georgia*

The I-75 will get a reversible tolled lane in the median of the freeway between McDonough and the I-75/I-675 split, south of Atlanta. The reversible toll facility will be 12 miles long. Construction will begin in 2014.


----------



## HAWC1506

mubd said:


> I didn't really get the full gist of the first post - was this just to see what the European style symbols would look like, or are the VMSes going to be running with those symbols from the day the road opens?


The VMSs were tested with European signs under closed-road conditions, just to see how they would look on the signs.

It would likely take federal approval to actually use them, which is unlikely in the near future. However, the MUTCD is gradually introducing more graphical signs so I think it's only a matter of time before they make the switch.

Also, one thing I've noticed about making those signs is that if the VMS is square in proportion, you can maximize the size of an equilateral triangle while still allowing for a "cue word" to be fit underneath which would aid understanding of the pictograms. 

If you were to maximize a yellow diamond on a square VMS, it would result in half the area of the VMS being wasted while still being unable to fit a line of text at the bottom.

Just some geometric observations...



Exethalion said:


> Note the difference between these two:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One forbids cycling, and one advises that there are cyclists.
> 
> As far as I know, most of the EU follow the same principle with regards to circular mandatory, triangular warning and rectangular information. The usage of colours and diagonal lines may vary.


I find that it makes more sense to have a mandatory actions be in blue than red. Red tends to imply a "warning" or "restrictive" meaning.

The U.S. seems to have an inconsistent approach of white for both mandatory actions and prohibited/restrictive actions. For example, the mandatory "keep right" sign is white (to add to the confusion, there are 3 variants). But the restrictive "speed limit" is also white, which doesn't quite make sense for speed limits because it's not mandatory to travel at the speed limit.


































We've also got the white signs with the red circle with a slash through it for signs like "No left turn", but "No turns" is completely white.


















And then a height limit is in yellow...signifying that it's a warning, not a restriction, even though if you keep driving you're likely to hit the low overpass.


----------



## sirfreelancealot

mubd said:


> Those signs look great!
> 
> However, wouldn't there be some confusion amongst motorists who mightn't understand what the number in the red circle means? Some folk (especially tourists) might also think it's a metric speed limit.
> 
> 
> 
> I remember being at traffic court once and some British immigrant had passed a variable speed limit sign when it had just changed from 80km/h to 40km/h in a tunnel and ended up being caught by the speed camera. The fine here for that amount of speeding is a hell of a lot. The guy got off.


In the UK there is a built in delay between the limit change and enforcement to prevent people being caught out unintentionally. It also helps to prevent panic braking in such situations.


----------



## sirfreelancealot

HAWC1506 said:


> The VMSs were tested with European signs under closed-road conditions, just to see how they would look on the signs.
> 
> It would likely take federal approval to actually use them, which is unlikely in the near future. However, the MUTCD is gradually introducing more graphical signs so I think it's only a matter of time before they make the switch.
> 
> Also, one thing I've noticed about making those signs is that if the VMS is square in proportion, you can maximize the size of an equilateral triangle while still allowing for a "cue word" to be fit underneath which would aid understanding of the pictograms.
> 
> If you were to maximize a yellow diamond on a square VMS, it would result in half the area of the VMS being wasted while still being unable to fit a line of text at the bottom.
> 
> Just some geometric observations...
> 
> 
> 
> I find that it makes more sense to have a mandatory actions be in blue than red. Red tends to imply a "warning" or "restrictive" meaning.
> 
> The U.S. seems to have an inconsistent approach of white for both mandatory actions and prohibited/restrictive actions. For example, the mandatory "keep right" sign is white (to add to the confusion, there are 3 variants). But the restrictive "speed limit" is also white, which doesn't quite make sense for speed limits because it's not mandatory to travel at the speed limit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We've also got the white signs with the red circle with a slash through it for signs like "No left turn", but "No turns" is completely white.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And then a height limit is in yellow...signifying that it's a warning, not a restriction, even though if you keep driving you're likely to hit the low overpass.


In the uk advisory speed limit signs look like this and are usually seen with signs for bends










Also in the UK, I've also seen US-type speed limits signs used by contractors on the A19 using electronic speed checkers. 










It's not a legally enforceable sign, so it has to be used as well as the standard European convention speed limit signs which have to be in place for a speed limit to be enforced.


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## HAWC1506

sirfreelancealot said:


> Also in the UK, I've also seen US-type speed limits signs used by contractors on the A19 using electronic speed checkers.


That sign took a wrong turn in the Atlantic and returned to the motherland :lol:


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## siamu maharaj

This equipment was most probably bought from a US supplier.


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## Tom 958

ChrisZwolle said:


> The I-75 will get a reversible tolled lane in the median of the freeway between McDonough and the I-75/I-675 split...


The typical cross sections as depicted on page 26 of the DEIS show the lanes being placed on the current southbound side, with the current northbound lanes undisturbed except at access points. What's interesting about this is that most of the interchange bridges over I-75 between I-675 and the '80's-vintage 2x4 section at Forsyth were replaced in the '90's and since by new structures apparently designed to accommodate a standard 2x5 configuration, like this: http://goo.gl/maps/G5X1G . That means that all of the space under the bridges southbound will be taken by the toll lanes, with no room left for additional general lanes. 

While the DEIS asserts that "The proposed project does not preclude consideration of any alternatives of other projects ongoing in the project corridor," that depends on one's definition of "ongoing": Georgia's Freight & Logistics Plan calls for more lanes on I-75 between Atlanta and Macon in order to expedite truck movements, though they're not programmed until 2031-2040 due to funding considerations. :bash: Meanwhile, I've noticed on my infrequent trips through that corridor, traffic can clog up at random times and for no obvious reason near Locust Grove, just south of the project area.

Maybe someday they'll end up putting segregated truck lanes next to the reversible roadway.


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## Rail Claimore

Tom 958 said:


> The typical cross sections as depicted on page 26 of the DEIS show the lanes being placed on the current southbound side, with the current northbound lanes undisturbed except at access points. What's interesting about this is that most of the interchange bridges over I-75 between I-675 and the '80's-vintage 2x4 section at Forsyth were replaced in the '90's and since by new structures apparently designed to accommodate a standard 2x5 configuration, like this: http://goo.gl/maps/G5X1G . That means that all of the space under the bridges southbound will be taken by the toll lanes, with no room left for additional general lanes.
> 
> While the DEIS asserts that "The proposed project does not preclude consideration of any alternatives of other projects ongoing in the project corridor," that depends on one's definition of "ongoing": Georgia's Freight & Logistics Plan calls for more lanes on I-75 between Atlanta and Macon in order to expedite truck movements, though they're not programmed until 2031-2040 due to funding considerations. :bash: Meanwhile, I've noticed on my infrequent trips through that corridor, traffic can clog up at random times and for no obvious reason near Locust Grove, just south of the project area.
> 
> Maybe someday they'll end up putting segregated truck lanes next to the reversible roadway.


They just need to quit with this HOT lane bullshit and just add 2 lanes in each direction. This corridor is basically like I-85 and I-75 North were like in the 1980's. They got it right on I-85 South by adding a lane or two in each direction down to Newnan.


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## ChrisZwolle

Rail Claimore said:


> They just need to quit with this HOT lane bullshit and just add 2 lanes in each direction.


I agree, but how are they going to fund that? Right now it looks like it will be a toll lane or no lane.


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## Professor L Gee

ChrisZwolle said:


> I agree, but how are they going to fund that? Right now it looks like it will be a toll lane or no lane.


This. Becoming pretty common across the country now that DOTs are realizing that expanding freeways will neither be free nor cheap anymore.


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## mgk920

*New section of interstate to open*

An approximately 15 km section of AR 549 (future I-49) will open on Tuesday, 2013-04-30. This is the part from interchanges 35 to 43 in Arkansas, crossing I-30 and poking ever slightly into Texas around the northeast and north sides of the Texarkana area.

.pdf file of Arkansas state highway department announcement:

http://www.arkansashighways.com/news/2013/NR 13-120.pdf

:dance:

Mike


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## ChrisZwolle

I think that is State Route 245 (the Texarkana Loop). State Route 549 runs south from SR-245 to the Louisiana state line.  

I see that SR-549 was extended north to US 71 earlier this year. I wonder what happens with SR-245 then, it will remain as a 1.5 mile segment between the Texas state line and SR-549 / I-49?

I was wondering why they want to build a short segment of I-49 through extreme northeast Texas. I assume Texas has very little interest to build that short segment, including a bridge across the Red River. The Texas segment can't be more than a couple of miles long without any exit.


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## ChrisZwolle

New DDI along I-580 in Reno, Nevada.


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-85 North Carolina*

Some aerial photos of the I-85 widening northeast of Charlotte.


I-85 Widening Project by NCDOTcommunications, on Flickr


I-85 Widening Project by NCDOTcommunications, on Flickr


I-85/I-485 Interchange by NCDOTcommunications, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-70 New Mississippi Bridge, St. Louis*

May update:

MRBConst0502-2013-129 by missriverbridge_photos, on Flickr


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## Tom 958

ChrisZwolle said:


> Some aerial photos of the I-85 widening northeast of Charlotte.


I drove that section a few weeks ago. It's not just a widening-- it's total reconstruction, with the old pavement removed or buried under eight lanes of new asphalt and the wide median replaced with a Jersey barrier and full width left shoulders. Since it wasn't built until the later '60's, the existing bridges over the highway are wide enough to remain, unlike the ones on the pre-Interstate section further north of there. I'm wondering, though, what they'll do at the four-loop-with-CD's interchange at old US 29 in Kannapolis-- there the median narrows enough to allow four lanes _or_ proper shoulders under the existing bridges, but not both. 

Had this highway been in Georgia, it probably would've been widened to 2x3 (like this) twenty years ago-- another example of how different states have different ways of doing things.


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## Nexis

*I-278 Westbound*


Interstate 278 Westbound - Brooklyn,New York by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Verrazano Narrows Bridge Westbound Upper Level - Brooklyn,New York by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Verrazano Narrows Bridge Westbound Upper Level - Brooklyn,New York by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Staten Island Expressway Westbound - I-278 - Staten Island,New York by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Staten Island Expressway Westbound - I-278 - Staten Island,New York by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Staten Island Expressway Westbound - I-278 - Staten Island,New York by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Staten Island Expressway Westbound - I-278 - Staten Island,New York by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Staten Island Expressway Westbound - I-278 - Staten Island,New York by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Staten Island Expressway Westbound - I-278 - Staten Island,New York by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Staten Island Expressway Westbound - I-278 - Staten Island,New York by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Staten Island Expressway Westbound - I-278 - Staten Island,New York by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Staten Island Expressway Westbound - I-278 - Staten Island,New York by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Staten Island Expressway Westbound - I-278 - Staten Island,New York by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Staten Island Expressway Westbound - I-278 - Staten Island,New York by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Goethals Westbound - I-278 - Staten Island,New York by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Goethals Bridge Westbound - I-278 - Staten Island,New York by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Goethals Bridge Westbound - I-278 - Elizabeth,New Jersey by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Goethals Bridge Westbound - I-278 - Elizabeth,New Jersey by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Goethals Bridge Westbound - I-278 - Elizabeth,New Jersey by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*Geaux Wider, Louisiana*

A saw for professionals at the Geaux Wider program in Baton Rouge, LA (widening I-10 & I-12).


The Geaux Wider construction program, widening Interstates 10 and 12 in Baton Rouge, La by Geaux Wider, on Flickr

I've never seen something like that before. Maybe because we don't have concrete roads in the Netherlands.


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## JohnFlint1985

did they start LBJ Express Project in Texas? if not what the news about it?


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## sonysnob

^ that saw looks like it is for large concrete storm sewer pipe, not cutting the concrete driving surface. It could be for the barrier as well, but more than likely a storm sewer.


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## diablo234

JohnFlint1985 said:


> did they start LBJ Express Project in Texas? if not what the news about it?


They already started it (I think Chris Zwolle posted some construction photos earlier). You can also see construction progress on Google Earth.


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## ChrisZwolle

The LBJ Express is under construction for quite some time now, it's planned to open the new express lanes in 2.5 years.


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## Suburbanist

That tunnel in Seattle will be the largest road tunnel in US (total length) when it opens, will not it?


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-95 / I-495 Springfield Interchange, VA*

Springfield interchange calling! Nice comparison.

1998:

springfield1998 by VaDOT, on Flickr

2012:

_4632739428 by VaDOT, on Flickr


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## Ingsoc75

ChrisZwolle said:


> The first signs with I-22 went up in Marion County, Alabama.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kudos to AAroads forum.


Good. Now the speed limit will raise from 65 to 70.


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## Stuck in Bama

Ingsoc75 said:


> Good. Now the speed limit will raise from 65 to 70.


That will not happen probably until the the interchange with I-65 in Birmingham is completed sometime next year.


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-5 / CA-170 interchange, Los Angeles*

A new 3-lane flyover opened to traffic this morning in Los Angeles. It carries northbound traffic from the 170 freeway to Interstate 5. 

It is part of a $ 140 million project to build HOV lanes along I-5 between the 118 and 170 freeways, and this new flyover enables a continuous HOV lane from the 170 to the 5, by using the old flyover that used to carry all traffic to the inside lanes of I-5. The entire project will be completed by late 2014.










more info:
http://i-5info.com/ronald-reagan-freeway-sr-118-to-hollywood-freeway-sr-170/


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## brewerfan386

At the there spring meeting AASHTO recently approved two *new* Interstates:
Interstate 2 in southern Texas near the Mexican Border (U.S. 83 from Mission, TX to Harlingen, TX)








and I-495 in North Carolina 








http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=9416.0
:banana:


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## Professor L Gee

I-495 in NC = US 64 from Raleigh to Rocky Mount? About time!

Only thing about that route is that apart from the Knightdale bypass, the shoulders are substandard.


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## albertocsc

Professor L Gee said:


> I-495 in NC = US 64 from Raleigh to Rocky Mount?
> 
> Apart from the Knightdale bypass, the shoulders are substandard.


Yes, it is. Plan is to designate US 64 as I-495 between I-440 and I-540 and as "I-495 Future" from I-540 to I-95 near Rocky Mount, so they will name it just I-495 when issues like that you said are solved.




brewerfan386 said:


> Interstate 2 in southern Texas near the Mexican Border (U.S. 83 from Mission, TX to Harlingen, TX)


It would be good if they extended it in the future to El Paso or any near point, I think.

And now that I-2 is coming, could it be time for a I-1?


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## Professor L Gee

albertocsc said:


> Yes, it is. Plan is to designate US 64 as I-495 between I-440 and I-540 and as "I-495 Future" from I-540 to I-95 near Rocky Mount, so they will name it just I-495 when issues like that you said are solved.


I wonder how long NCDOT will take to upgrade 64 though... or how high on their priority list it is.



> And now that I-2 is coming, could it be time for a I-1?


Where would they put it, and what purpose would it serve?


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## Jschmuck

> Where would they put it, and what purpose would it serve?


miss his original post about I-2? its going to run between Harlingen, TX and Mission, TX. Its already limited access highway.


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## Professor L Gee

Jschmuck said:


> miss his original post about I-2? its going to run between Harlingen, TX and Mission, TX. Its already limited access highway.


I saw. The thing is, though, that I-2 fits within the grid, as it's a very southerly east-west route.

But an I-1 would have to be a north-south route west of I-5 (unless someone goes all Bud Shuster on us).


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## albertocsc

albertocsc said:


> And now that I-2 is coming, could it be time for an I-1?





Professor L Gee said:


> Where would they put it, and what purpose would it serve?


It would be a good name for a conversion of US 101 to Interstate System from Los Ángeles to San Francisco.

Although my idea (correct or not) would be giving the name I-1 (and I-1 Future) to a Tecate, CA to Olympia, WA coastal highway, including the US 101 stretch said above. Complete list would be:


 SR 188, from Mexican border in Tecate to SR 94
 SR 94, to SR 125 near La Mesa
 SR 125, to SR 52 near Carlton Oaks Country Club
 SR 52, to SR 67 near Gillespie Field Airport
 SR 67, to SR 78 in Ramona
 SR 78, from Ramona to SR 79 in Santa Ysabel
 SR 79, from Santa Ysabel to I 15 in Temecula
 I 15, from Temecula to I 215 by Murrieta
 I 215, to SR 60 in Riverside
 SR 60, to SR 71 near Chino Hills
 SR 71, to SR 57 near Devry Institute of Technology
 SR 57, to I 210 near Louie Pompei Sports Park
 I 210, to SR 134 in Pasadena
 SR 134, to US 101 by Studio City
 US 101, from Studio City to I 680 in San José
 I 680, from US 101 in San Jose to I 80
 I 80, connecting I 680 and SR 12 near Green Valley Shopping Center
 SR 12, near South Cordelia to SR 121
 SR 121, connecting SR 12 and SR 116 near Sonoma Valley Airport
 SR 116, to US 101 in Petaluma
 US 101, from Petaluma, CA to SR 107, WA
 SR 107, to US 12 in Montesano
 US 12, from Montesano to Elma
 SR 8, from Elma to US 101
 US 101, to I 5 in Olympia, WA


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## Professor L Gee

^^ But then you run into the problem of reduplicating route numbers, which Caltrans doesn't seem to like to do except for extensions of Interstate highways that don't meet the standards. Especially pertinent considering that I-1 and CA 1 would parallel each other.

And as iconic as the PCH is, I'm almost certain they wouldn't consider renumbering it.

(Pardon my super-practicality.  )


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## albertocsc

You are just right. It would be the ideal place for an I-1, specially north of Los Ángeles, but I didn't think about SR 1.

They could always call this route I-1 north of Leggett, thus creating an '1 route' from Dana Point to Olympia, and I-13 or another suitable number (13 would be duplicate too) south of Leggett.

If anyone has good ideas about new Interstates, we could get them together and send them wherever they would take them into account.


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## Professor L Gee

Funny you mention new ideas for Interstates...
Funny you mention new Interstates. I was just thinking about I-73 and 74, which are being built rather expeditiously in NC but not in the more northern states they're supposed to pass through.

Not sure about I-73, though, since the majority of the route north of VA has been programmed to be built below standards (or not at all). If this is the case, the route number would end up out of place in the grid. If the route is built all the way to Myrtle Beach as envisioned, I'd advocate re-designating it as 97 while simultaneously extending I-83 in Maryland south to replace existing 97.

As far as I-74, I'm thinking that if plans in OH and WV don't come through, and with some planned (and unplanned?) upgrades to US 74, they could be a new route from Wilmington to Hendersonville via Charlotte. Call it I-32/34/36/38 or something. And the route from Lexington to Winston-Salem -- planned I-285 -- can extend all the way to Mount Airy, replacing current I-74. Additionally, I-74 through High Point could be renumbered as a spur of I-73 (or according to my idea above, 97).

We could do this all day. :cheers:


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## FM 2258

brewerfan386 said:


> At the there spring meeting AASHTO recently approved two *new* Interstates:
> Interstate 2 in southern Texas near the Mexican Border (U.S. 83 from Mission, TX to Harlingen, TX)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and I-495 in North Carolina
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=9416.0
> :banana:


Excited to see Texas get a new Interstate even if it's really an existing highway. They should extend it to Laredo.


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## albertocsc

I've created a little notebook for Interstate ideas, so whenever you have an idea you can write it here (I'll do too, I already added I 1, and 3 more ideas), apart from sharing it in the forum, of course! 

As I said yesterday, if we get a good number of proposals, we can send them to transportation authorities to try to make them real. So you can share this notebook with more roadfans, and then we can get more ideas.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WDrx6leiB60kb9K_ZenKmNcqr67Czl6j1YxxLg2BZQY/edit?usp=sharing


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## CNGL

^^ I can send these proposals to the guys at AA Roads forum, since I have an account there. Heck, I've got envolved on a fictional NASCAR league there...


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## myosh_tino

albertocsc said:


> SR 188, from Mexican border in Tecate to SR 94
> SR 94, to SR 125 near La Mesa
> SR 125, to SR 52 near Carlton Oaks Country Club
> SR 52, to SR 67 near Gillespie Field Airport
> SR 67, to SR 78 in Ramona
> SR 78, from Ramona to SR 79 in Santa Ysabel
> SR 79, from Santa Ysabel to I 15 in Temecula
> I 15, from Temecula to I 215 by Murrieta
> I 215, to SR 60 in Riverside
> SR 60, to SR 71 near Chino Hills
> SR 71, to SR 57 near Devry Institute of Technology
> SR 57, to I 210 near Louie Pompei Sports Park
> I 210, to SR 134 in Pasadena
> SR 134, to US 101 by Studio City
> US 101, from Studio City to I 680 in San José
> I 680, from US 101 in San Jose to I 80
> I 80, connecting I 680 and SR 12 near Green Valley Shopping Center
> SR 12, near South Cordelia to SR 121
> SR 121, connecting SR 12 and SR 116 near Sonoma Valley Airport
> SR 116, to US 101 in Petaluma
> US 101, from Petaluma, CA to SR 107, WA
> SR 107, to US 12 in Montesano
> US 12, from Montesano to Elma
> SR 8, from Elma to US 101
> US 101, to I 5 in Olympia, WA


I see many problems with this routing.

* The southern portion, south of Studio City according to the above list, would violate the Interstate grid system by being east of both I-15 and I-5.

* Second there are way too many turn-off-to-stay-on situations in this route (CA-94 to CA-125, CA-60 to CA-71, US 101 to I-680 just to name a few) which would make traffic unbearable at those interchanges.

* Third, I noticed that there are stretches where this proposed I-1 overlaps with existing interstates. Would these sections be co-signed with both routes or would 3DI's like I-210, I-215 and I-680 have their numbers changed to I-1? Caltrans really does not like co-signing routes (e.g. CA-99 though Sacramento)

* Fourth, like others have posted, California does not allow route number duplication and with CA-1 being such an iconic route, I don't see how I-1 will ever see the light of day.



CNGL said:


> ^^ I can send these proposals to the guys at AA Roads forum, since I have an account there. Heck, I've got envolved on a fictional NASCAR league there...


Just make sure you put this in the "Fictional Highways" section.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-35E / I-635 interchange near Dallas, TX.


----------



## albertocsc

myosh_tino said:


> I see many problems with this routing.
> 
> * The southern portion, south of Studio City according to the above list, would violate the Interstate grid system by being east of both I-15 and I-5.
> 
> * Second there are way too many turn-off-to-stay-on situations in this route (CA-94 to CA-125, CA-60 to CA-71, US 101 to I-680 just to name a few) which would make traffic unbearable at those interchanges.
> 
> * Third, I noticed that there are stretches where this proposed I-1 overlaps with existing interstates. Would these sections be co-signed with both routes or would 3DI's like I-210, I-215 and I-680 have their numbers changed to I-1? Caltrans really does not like co-signing routes (e.g. CA-99 though Sacramento)
> 
> * Fourth, like others have posted, California does not allow route number duplication and with CA-1 being such an iconic route, I don't see how I-1 will ever see the light of day.


Well, that is my first approach and first ideas about Interstates. I still have to learn more about American roads and how they work. If I have more ideas later, I'll share, trying to make them better. Thanks for your answers.


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## myosh_tino

albertocsc said:


> Well, that is my first approach and first ideas about Interstates. I still have to learn more about American roads and how they work. If I have more ideas later, I'll share, trying to make them better. Thanks for your answers.


No problem.

Over at the AARoads forum (where I am also a member) there are numerous discussions about what to do with US 101 in California and, to some extent, in Washington and Oregon too. The most prevalent (and realistic IMO) is to sign US 101 between Los Angeles and San Francisco as I-3. CA-3 runs through the coast range between Yreka and CA-36 and can be renumbered without too much fuss so that solves the route number duplication problem. Extending I-3 to Oregon and Washington is a problem since there is no freeway that runs through the city of San Francisco to route a proposed I-3 onto and there is ZERO chance of getting a freeway built.


----------



## Scba

Professor L Gee said:


> Funny you mention new ideas for Interstates...
> Funny you mention new Interstates. I was just thinking about I-73 and 74, which are being built rather expeditiously in NC but not in the more northern states they're supposed to pass through.
> 
> Not sure about I-73, though, since the majority of the route north of VA has been programmed to be built below standards (or not at all). If this is the case, the route number would end up out of place in the grid. If the route is built all the way to Myrtle Beach as envisioned, I'd advocate re-designating it as 97 while simultaneously extending I-83 in Maryland south to replace existing 97.
> 
> As far as I-74, I'm thinking that if plans in OH and WV don't come through, and with some planned (and unplanned?) upgrades to US 74, they could be a new route from Wilmington to Hendersonville via Charlotte. Call it I-32/34/36/38 or something. And the route from Lexington to Winston-Salem -- planned I-285 -- can extend all the way to Mount Airy, replacing current I-74. Additionally, I-74 through High Point could be renumbered as a spur of I-73 (or according to my idea above, 97).
> 
> We could do this all day. :cheers:


Not sure how 83 would extend; would you just have it a shared route along 695?


----------



## Professor L Gee

Scba said:


> Not sure how 83 would extend; would you just have it a shared route along 695?


Yes, exactly. Then I would renumber the JFX as I-183 or something like that.


----------



## Stuck in Bama

Some photos of the reconstruction of I-20 eastbound in the Birmingham area. I-20 east from I-59 to I-459 has been closed since March, work is expected to be completed in July, then I-20 westbound will be closed.

Photos from al.com


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## Stuck in Bama

Photos by al.com of the construction of the I-22 @ I-65 interchange


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## ChrisZwolle

Interestingly I-81 carries more truck traffic than I-95. Virginia is working to upgrade parts of it to six lanes. Eventually most of I-81 south of Harrisburg should have six lanes.


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## Road_UK

I'll check it out. I'm going to New York, Philadelphia and Williamsburg, VA within two weeks.


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## Professor L Gee

ChrisZwolle said:


> Interestingly I-81 carries more truck traffic than I-95. Virginia is working to upgrade parts of it to six lanes. Eventually most of I-81 south of Harrisburg should have six lanes.


No doubt. That was my preferred route between college and home last decade. They had been talking about the upgrades since I was still a student there (graduated in '05). It's long overdue.


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## FM 2258

I've always been amazed with how many trucks I see here in Austin on IH 35. So many of them, I love seeing 18-wheelers.


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## I-275westcoastfl

Professor L Gee said:


> No doubt. That was my preferred route between college and home last decade. They had been talking about the upgrades since I was still a student there (graduated in '05). It's long overdue.


That is my preferred route driving to NY, I-95 sucks.


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## ttownfeen

I personally witnessed the importance of 81 as a national truck route during my recent trip to Blacksburg, wherein every electronic sign I saw starting in Bristol, TN warned of 81's closure in Harrisburg, PA, some 400 miles away.


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## HAWC1506

If anyone's interested, part of the only interstate that links the west coast of the U.S. with Canada is now in the water. I-5 is now closed in Washington State at junction 229. How this is representative of a first-world country, I don't know.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22650268

Images


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## brewerfan386

A portion of the Interstate 5 Skagit River bridge in Mount Vernon, WA has collapsed tonight; unknown number of injured and/or deaths.
Capped from KOMO and KIRO out of Seattle:


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## brewerfan386

*Update*: KIRO-TV just broadcasted that a wide-load semi might have hit a girder that made it collapse per a witness who was on the bridge when it happened. Also, a WaDOT representative is saying it's very possible that a over-height semi hit a girder causing the bridge to collapse.


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## myosh_tino

Looks like no one died as a result of this bridge's collapse. In fact, the Seattle Times is reporting that only 2 vehicles fell into the river and there were 3 injuries with none of them major. According to the governor, it will cost $15 million to repair the bridge. 

FWIW, I don't think this bridge collapse should not be compared to the I-35W collapse in Minneapolis. The I-35 collapse was a result of a design flaw and added weight due to construction activities, not the result of something hitting the bridge.



HAWC1506 said:


> How this is representative of a first-world country, I don't know.


I don't think that's a fair statement if, indeed, an oversize load struck the bridge causing it to collapse.


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## Road_UK

They did say that a lot of bridges especially in Washington do not comply with safety standards.


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## ChrisZwolle

The truss structure has arched overhead cross-beams which are slightly lower at the edge of the bridge than across the lanes. Considering there are no shoulders, an oversized truck hitting them sounds a plausible explanation. 

Considering the bridge is almost 60 years old and does not have a very high deficiency rating, it's not really surprising a hit like this caused it to collapse. Even if it has a deficiency rating high enough to declare it safe, it doesn't mean it can withstand something like this. It appears that the oversized truck itself did make it across the bridge and did not fell into the water together with the bridge segment.


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-81 Syracuse, NY*

Interstate 81 runs from south to north through the Syracuse metro area, serving downtown. The expressway opened in the 1960s and is reportedly in poor condition, especially the viaducts around downtown.

They are studying various options, including replacement, burying or removal.

http://thei81challenge.org

While I-481 would be capable of handling through traffic in case of a removal scenario, traffic volumes are too high to turn it into an at-grade boulevard, the downtown segment carries 90,000 - 100,000 vehicles per day, you need a super wide urban thoroughfare to handle that kind of traffic with traffic signals (at least 10 lanes, more at intersections). A bury scenario seems unlikely with the limited funding available. I think a reconstruction of the elevated expressway is most cost-effective.


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## JimInJersey

italystf said:


> I was looking at the I-70 in Utah on Google Maps, that is interesting because it runs truly in the middle of nowhere for hundreds of km.
> At a certain point there is this: quite weird for an interstate (motorway\expressway), isn't it? Are there many places like that in the USA?


There is a stretch of I-70 in south-central Utah where there are no services for 105 miles. No services. No gas. No food. No water. No nothing but some rather fantastic scenery. There are maybe a dozen or so at-grade 'off ramps' that lead to ranch roads, that may themselves be 10 or 20 miles or more from some sort of habitation. There is really nothing man-made there. But then you hit places like Spotted Wolf Canyon. :










and the San Rafael Swell:


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## JimInJersey

*Cross Country in an RV, 2012*

In June/July of 2012, we (Self, wife, and brother-in-law) headed to Salt Lake City for a convention. We only had two weeks, and we knew we'd be in SLC for 5 of them, so we didn't have a lot of time for meandering around.

BIL and I shared driving. I took a lot of pics out the windshield and side window, with the attendant sharpness and fuzziness problems, but that's the best we could do. 

Our route followed the Delaware Memorial Bridge, south on I-95 to I-695 around Baltimore, across the top of Maryland to I-70 to I-68, then I-79 north into PA where we hooked up with I-70 West. Followed I-70 to Indianapolis, then branched NW along I-74 to the Quad Cities where we picked up I-80, which would take us all the way to Salt Lake.

Coming home, we took I-15 south to I-70, then I-70 East to Saint Louis where we hooked up with I-64, which we followed east, over the hills of West Virginia, north a bit on I-81 in Virginia, then east again on I-64 to Norfolk, across the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel, and up the Delmarva Peninsula on US 13. 

I-68 west of Columbia, Maryland









I-70 in Ohio:









I-74 in Indiana, NW of Indianapolis:









An I-80 truck stop west of Des Moines, Iowa:









I-80 in Iowa









I-80, central southern Wyoming









I-80 near Evanston, Wyoming. Desolation personified.









I-80 in Utah, coming down into the Wasatch Valley of Salt Lake:









I-15 South, heading to Salt Lake City.









Salt Lake City skyline:









Eastbound leg on subsequent post...


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## Road_UK

Great photos. How long did the actual drive take?


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## ChrisZwolle

The collapsed I-5 Bridge in Mount Vernon, WA


I-5 Skagit River Bridge - Aerial View by WSDOT, on Flickr


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## Sunfuns

Three lines are still left, will be slower than before but ok until the collapse bridge is repaired/replaced.


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## JimInJersey

Road_UK said:


> Great photos. How long did the actual drive take?


I assume that's directed at me - it was about three and a half days out to the Salt Lake valley. We left NJ Friday AM, arrived Ogden, UT about 2PM, Monday. We toured the Antelope Island State Park in the Great Salt Lake on Tuesday, and then went down to SLC for the Wednesday-Saturday convention.


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## diablo234

ChrisZwolle said:


> Interestingly I-81 carries more truck traffic than I-95. Virginia is working to upgrade parts of it to six lanes. Eventually most of I-81 south of Harrisburg should have six lanes.


That's because it allows truck traffic to bypass congestion in Washington DC/Northern Virginia.


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## rakcancer

collapsed bridge is no more in Google Maps:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## Tom 958

I wouldn't have expected climbing lanes and a proper W beam median guardrail at such a remote location:


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## JimInJersey

Tom 958 said:


> I wouldn't have expected climbing lanes and a proper W beam median guardrail at such a remote location:


I know what you mean. Of course, the perspective here is more than a little exaggerated. But even the low grades had climbing lanes. It had been 37 years since I was on I-80 out west - a 1975 move to Sacramento for college. The biggest disappointment was how well they've cleaned up and civilized Little America. It looks like a a big Howard Johnson's now. 

The worst stretch we hit on the entire 5600 mile journey was the 30 mile stretch just west of Norfolk on I-64. Rattled our fillings out.

If anyone is interested, and is actually so bored and bereft of pleasure that they need to read someone ELSE's travelog, here's it is:

http://www.jmhare.com/Vacation2012/Vacation_Intro.htm


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## sacto7654

It's going to be very interesting to see how they replace that damaged I-5 bridge. Will it be done on an expedited basis like the Interstate 35W Saint Anthony Falls Bridge built in 2008 in Minneapolis, MN?


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## Jschmuck

> It's going to be very interesting to see how they replace that damaged I-5 bridge. Will it be done on an expedited basis like the Interstate 35W Saint Anthony Falls Bridge built in 2008 in Minneapolis, MN?


its just the one span of the 5, won't be a complete replacement, only a repair(well, replacement of that span) which won't be to lengthy with time.


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## sacto7654

Jschmuck said:


> its just the one span of the 5, won't be a complete replacement, only a repair(well, replacement of that span) which won't be to lengthy with time.


Given the fact this bridge was already declared _functionally obsolete_ some years ago, I wouldn't be surprised that the current bridge is completely dismantled and replaced by a new bridge, all done on a highly expedited basis like the Saint Anthony Falls Bridge I mentioned earlier.


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## ChrisZwolle

That would be the best option I think, but funding of course will be an issue. Replacing a bridge like this with a six-lane + shoulders span will cost likely in the range of $ 100 million. Usually DOTs do not have that kind of money lying around on the shelf.


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## myosh_tino

sacto7654 said:


> Given the fact this bridge was already declared _functionally obsolete_ some years ago, I wouldn't be surprised that the current bridge is completely dismantled and replaced by a new bridge, all done on a highly expedited basis like the Saint Anthony Falls Bridge I mentioned earlier.


The Seattle Times is reporting, a temporary span should be in place by mid-June and the permanent fix be in place by September at a cost of $15 million. The federal government will pay for the temporary span and 90% of the permanent span. WSDOT will pick up the tab for the remaining 10% of the permanent span.

From what I can tell from the article, the only the collapsed section is being replaced, not the entire bridge although the bridge will be put on a priority list to be upgraded when funding is available.


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## Tom 958

What I don't understand is why it took 58 years (1955 to 2013) for this to happen.

Perhaps the repair will include more effective measures to prevent another truck strike.


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## Jschmuck

> Perhaps the repair will include more effective measures to prevent another truck strike


well, the other 3 spans have the same construction; truss spans...Since its just a repair, im pretty sure the 3 other spans will not be touched until total replacement.


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## Tom 958

I don't mean on the bridge itself-- I mean detectors for overheight trucks that trigger warning signs with flashing lights before trucks get to it. Even a simple clearance warning sign would be better than nothing, and nothing is what I find on Google. hno:


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## Xusein

ChrisZwolle said:


> Interestingly I-81 carries more truck traffic than I-95. Virginia is working to upgrade parts of it to six lanes. Eventually most of I-81 south of Harrisburg should have six lanes.





diablo234 said:


> That's because it allows truck traffic to bypass congestion in Washington DC/Northern Virginia.


Further north, I-81 connects to I-84 east to bypass the NYC area. Here in CT, it's a MAJOR truck route.


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## ChrisZwolle

Bridge replacement span visualization by WSDOT, on Flickr


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## JimInJersey

*Cross Country in an RV, 2012, East bound leg*

We were in SLC for three days, then headed south on I-15. Our next major destination was Moab, Utah, and the Arches/Canyonlands/Dead Horse Point triumvirate of scenic wonders. We had an overnight stop in Mona, somewhat south of Salt Lake for an event tied to the convention, and then we headed south again. We took a bypass in a s/s/e direction that brought us to I-70 in the desolate San Rafael Swell area. As mentioned in a previous post, there is a stretch between Salina and Green River where there are no real exits, no services, and pretty much nothing at all for over one hundred miles. After our excursions around Moab, we got back to I-70, and headed towards Denver. We traveled the amazing 17-mile Glenwood Canyon route, and then started really climbing - Vail is at around 8,000 feet, and the Eisenhower Tunnel complex, at 11,000+ feet, is the highest spot on the US Interstate System. After that, it was almost all down hill, through Denver, and then dropping down along the eastern slope of the Rockies, and through Kansas. Deadly dull, flat, and unwavering. In Missouri we started rolling up and down again, and in St Louis connected with I-64 which would take us the rest of the way east to Norfolk, VA, then it was a quick dash up the Delmarva Peninsula home.

I-15 South of Provo









Canyonlands National Park









Glenwood Canyon - 17 miles of elevated four-lane freeway









Glenwood Canyon









Climbing, east of Vail









Approaching the Eisenhower Tunnel, 11,000 feet









Tunnel Tubes









Eastern Colorado/Kansas on I-70. There was a hill about 600 miles away. :banana:









Central Missouri









Outside of Louisville, Kentucky









Early morning, east of Beckley, West Virginia









The I-64/I-81 concurrency, western Virginia


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## Suburbanist

^^ What are the dimensiosn of your RV?


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## JimInJersey

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ What are the dimensiosn of your RV?


It is a 1988 vintage, 34' Fleetwood Bounder. 

Filling up in Lexington, Nebraska, with Brother-in-Law watching the hose.


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## I-275westcoastfl

^^Awesome!!


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## RSSBr4n

Amazing scenery


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## RSSBr4n

Amazing scenery.


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## NFZANMNIM

JimInJersey said:


>


I remember this tunnel from this truck simulator game 18 WoS


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## ChrisZwolle

Tax funded roads are a more cost-effective way to construct new roads, because the financing cost is lower for governments than it is for the private sector. However, you do need the proper tax revenue to start, and that's the problem. If no politician is willing to raise these taxes, then toll roads are the only solution.


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## sonysnob

ChrisZwolle said:


> Tax funded roads are a more cost-effective way to construct new roads, because the financing cost is lower for governments than it is for the private sector. However, you do need the proper tax revenue to start, and that's the problem. If no politician is willing to raise these taxes, then toll roads are the only solution.


Not to mention the (sometimes significant) costs associated with the tolling infrastructure itself.


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## Botev1912

Xusein said:


> But, I hate dealing with toll booths, they are beyond annoying. I'm glad CT has no tolls.


There are no toll booths on a lot of roads in the US now. They implemented the electronic system. You don't have to stop at all. You either need a pass, or get a bill in the mail.


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## ChrisZwolle

Nice photo of the new I-40 alignment in Oklahoma City.


Oklahoma City I-40 Crosstown Expressway by Alonzo Adams Photography, on Flickr


I-40 SkyDance Night by Alonzo Adams Photography, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-5 Salmon Creek, WA*

The I-5 / I-205 interchange in Salmon Creek, Washington (near Vancouver, WA).


Aerial view – Salmon Creek Interchange by WSDOT, on Flickr


Salmon Creek Aerial: Looking North by WSDOT, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-2 & I-69E*

Interstate 2 & Interstate 69E in Harlingen, Texas


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## g.spinoza

^^ No one under 50 allowed?


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## keokiracer

I was expecting our prime-mnister Rutte in that pic


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## Shenkey

g.spinoza said:


> ^^ No one under 50 allowed?


neither under 100 kg


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## bozenBDJ

ChrisZwolle said:


> Interstate 2 & Interstate 69E in Harlingen, Texas


Old people everywhere :lol: :jk:  .


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## siamu maharaj

They only invited people who were there when the first interstate was laid.


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## FM 2258

Glad to see new Interstates in Texas. I've driven the entire lengths of those roads but I want to drive them again as Interstates. I'm also glad to see new Interstate suffixes. Interstate 35 is not the only one anymore. :cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

I-69C in Pharr, Texas


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## Suburbanist

^^ What a confusing sign.


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## g.spinoza

Shenkey said:


> neither under 100 kg


Nah, the lady with the yellow shirt in the front row seems quite fit... although she may reach that weight on account of her boobs...


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## ChrisZwolle

Older people usually show up to events like these. Maybe because they have too much time on their hands as these events are usually during business hours. It's not much different in the Netherlands. Every time there is some kind of road event only officials and "gray heads" show up.


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## g.spinoza

^^ When I was in Bologna they where almost an institution... in Bolognese dialect they are called "umarells", literally "tiny people". Someone wrote a book about them:


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## myosh_tino

Back in the day, there was an I-80N (now I-84) and an I-5W (now I-580/I-80/I-505) but a majority of those suffixed routes were abolished by AASHTO due to confusion in 1980.

With that said, can someone please explain to me why I-69 now gets a "C" and "E" suffix? Is it just a "Texas thing"? Wouldn't it have been better to renumber one of those routes as a I-x69?


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## ChrisZwolle

Additionally, I-69W is also planned, but as opposed to I-69E and I-69C, no segment has been constructed yet. I-69W will run from the I-69 mainline near Victoria to Laredo. If I understand correctly, there will be no unsuffixed I-69 south of Victoria. It branches into three long-distance spurs, all suffixed E, C or W.


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## N.J.

New Jersey, USA










Parkway









202


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## AnOldBlackMarble

Woonsocket54 said:


> Interstate 15 by L.A. Urban Soul, on Flickr


This is why the high speed rail should have been planed between Vegas and LA (or the hyperloop) not to SF, first. The 15 is a parking lot at lest once a day. :bash:


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## Suburbanist

AnOldBlackMarble said:


> This is why the high speed rail should have been planed between Vegas and LA (or the hyperloop) not to SF, first. The 15 is a parking lot at lest once a day. :bash:


What about building more I-15 lanes since it runs through the desert and the Cajon pass is quite wide already.


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## Penn's Woods

^^Well, building the rail line would give people the choice of going by train, which some of them might prefer.


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## myosh_tino

Suburbanist said:


> What about building more I-15 lanes since it runs through the desert and the Cajon pass is quite wide already.


NDOT widened I-15 from Primm to just outside Las Vegas from 4 to 6 lanes just a few years ago. I'm sure it's in Caltrans' long-range plan to widen I-15 to 6 lanes plus a truck-climbing lane where needed but getting funding for this 112+ mile project between Primm and Barstow might be a problem.


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## OriK

Probably it's not completely true there as the flows are completely different, but in Europe, more lanes generally means more cars, not less jams... and that just makes the problem worse in the accesses and exists... being able to produce a chaos in near roads and streets.

For that, I agree with Penn's Wood, sometimes giving alternatives is a better choice.


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## Suburbanist

OriK said:


> Probably it's not completely true there as the flows are completely different, but in Europe, more lanes generally means more cars, not less jams... and that just makes the problem worse in the accesses and exists... being able to produce a chaos in near roads and streets.
> .


I-15 is a long-distance thoroughfare there. There aren't much traffic, I guess, to/from exists between Victorville and Las Vegas. No major cities, no other thoroughfares.


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## myosh_tino

OriK said:


> Probably it's not completely true there as the flows are completely different, but in Europe, more lanes generally means more cars, not less jams... and that just makes the problem worse in the accesses and exists... being able to produce a chaos in near roads and streets.
> 
> For that, I agree with Penn's Wood, sometimes giving alternatives is a better choice.


In this case, I don't think an additional lane would lead to a significant increase in congestion. I'm going to base my argument solely on the impact of truck traffic on I-15. California law caps the truck speed limit to 55 MPH (automobile speed limit is 70 MPH) and restricts them to the far right lane except when passing a slower moving vehicle. In it's current configuration (2 lanes each direction) trucks use the left lane when passing a slower vehicle often causes automobile traffic to back up behind the passing truck. If another lane is added, then trucks would be prohibited from using the far left lane as they can use the middle lane to pass slower vehicles in the right lane. That would leave the left lane open for automobile traffic to cruise along at 70 MPH (or 80 or 90 or 100...).

I would also agree with Suburbanist that traffic volumes are relatively light during the week. However, weekend traffic on I-15 often very heavy with folks heading to and from Las Vegas. The photo posted earlier in this thread looks like it was taken on a Sunday afternoon of westbound I-15.


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## ChrisZwolle

There is enough space in the median of I-15 to widen it to 8 lanes without needing right-of-way acquisition. The high-speed train proposal is beyond nonsense. Successful high-speed trains were the ones that alleviated busy railroads, which is not the case between Victorville and Las Vegas. Furthermore, it would begin a good 80 miles outside Los Angeles. There is no precedent for such a high-speed train to be succesful. Who would take the train if the most congested segment is the first half in Greater Los Angeles, where the train doesn't run through? Train projects based on the assumption that people would materially reduce driving are not successful. Trains don't drive on assumptions, they drive on proven ridership, which does not exist in this corridor. It would be much cheaper and effective if they would widen I-15 to six/eight lanes between Barstow and Nevada.


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## Penn's Woods

^^I wasn't arguing *for* it, just suggesting - well, saying outright - that some people might prefer it. So it would create a choice. (And the original poster's idea that it was a higher priority than a Los Angeles-San Francisco line, I'm certainly not taking a position on.)

But I'd point out that Las Vegas is a far, far bigger city now than it was even 20 or 30 years ago, so assumptions based on what rail demand was in the past here are not necessarily as valid as they are in "older" parts of the country or in Europe. I wouldn't have expected to see the sort of traffic jam pictured here out in the desert either, based on recent history. But there it is.


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## ChrisZwolle

People have a choice; driving or flying. There are several airports in greater Los Angeles. But often it turns out that if people have a choice, they still prefer to drive. You have great choice of public transport in Europe and driving is still by far the most popular means to get around (most countries have a driving share between 80 and 90%, which is only slightly lower than in the U.S.)

The rail project existence is based on the assumption that thousands of drivers would switch to the train. European experiences show there is no large modal shift. Most high-speed train users are those who used conventional trains before, which does not exist in this corridor. Thus, there is no proven ridership. Nobody would take a multi-billion dollar bet based on wild guesses, which rail ridership estimates usually are. These estimates are almost always far off the actual usage. 

There is a difference in transportation forecasting between roads and rail. Road estimates are based on factors such as population growth, spatial developments, gasoline prices, etcetera. These forecasts are generally fairly accurate, except for most toll roads. They tend to underestimate urban road usage, but not by much. Rail ridership forecasting, on the other hand, is based on far less concrete data, mostly assumptions about how many people would switch from car to rail. These forecasts are almost always significantly off the actual ridership. There is extensive research on this subject, google "Bent Flyvbjerg" on Google for more information about this. He is a leading researcher about megaprojects, cost, risk and ridership / road forecasting.


----------



## OriK

ChrisZwolle said:


> People have a choice; driving or flying. There are several airports in greater Los Angeles. But often it turns out that if people have a choice, they still prefer to drive. You have great choice of public transport in Europe and driving is still by far the most popular means to get around (*most countries have a driving share between 80 and 90%*, which is only slightly lower than in the U.S.)


This is completely untrue where good alternatives are given.

It's also a pain to flight over such a short distance...

Comparing this corridor with a similar one (in distance)... Madrid-Valencia

In 2012, there was on average 12241 vehicles per day (on the least congested stretch, so we might infer that most of them were doing the complete route) on A-3 (the motorway that connects both cities), being a 72% of them cars... with a mean occupation of 1.3 persons/car * 366 days we get that there were around 4.2 million passengers by car between both cities in 2012

On the same period, Renfe sold 1.7 million train tickets for that route.

The train gets a share of 87% when compared to the plane, so... 1.7 * 0.13 = 221.000 passengers by plane in 2012.

So we have:
Car: 4.2 million or 69.62% (it takes around 3.5 hours)
Train: 1.7 million or 27.77% (it takes around 1.5 hours)
Plane: 0.221 million or 3.61% (it takes around 1 hour)
------
Total: 6.12 million passengers

And 2012 was the 2nd year of operation of the high speed train. Note also that the car traffic is overstimated as some of those cars have a different origin or destination.

I don't pretend to say that new lanes on I-15 aren't necessary (they probably are) nor that HST would be good for that route (I think it probably would be). I pretend to say that the idea of a HSL between L.A. and Las Vegas shouldn't be discarded that easily as it probably have a good potential and IMHO further studies should be done to check if it's viable.


----------



## AnOldBlackMarble

OriK said:


> Probably it's not completely true there as the flows are completely different, but in Europe, more lanes generally means more cars, not less jams... and that just makes the problem worse in the accesses and exists... being able to produce a chaos in near roads and streets.
> 
> For that, I agree with Penn's Wood, sometimes giving alternatives is a better choice.


I was going to say the same thing. For some reason, which seems totally counter intuitive, that is the case. I remember reading a study once where they came to this conclusion. They were saying that the main cause of congestion on roads was poor interconnectedness, which then caused bottle necks, which is the main cause traffic jams. Having extra lanes causes even bigger bottle necks where multilane roads intersect, merge, or shrink again. So in many cases the traffic jams are a result of "bottlenecks" and not because of too many cars on the road. So the only way to really prevent traffic jams is to prevent bottlenecks everywhere. Building more lanes has the opposite effect. Instead of alleviating, it actually creates bottlenecks which cause massive backups, aka traffic jams.


----------



## AnOldBlackMarble

ChrisZwolle said:


> There is enough space in the median of I-15 to widen it to 8 lanes without needing right-of-way acquisition. The high-speed train proposal is beyond nonsense. Successful high-speed trains were the ones that alleviated busy railroads, which is not the case between Victorville and Las Vegas. Furthermore, it would begin a good 80 miles outside Los Angeles. There is no precedent for such a high-speed train to be succesful. Who would take the train if the most congested segment is the first half in Greater Los Angeles, where the train doesn't run through? Train projects based on the assumption that people would materially reduce driving are not successful. Trains don't drive on assumptions, they drive on proven ridership, which does not exist in this corridor. It would be much cheaper and effective if they would widen I-15 to six/eight lanes between Barstow and Nevada.


You are probably right, but they are building a train between LA and SF. In my opinion it would have been better to build it from LA to Vegas as a first trial, and than expand if the system works. It would also be cheaper.


----------



## AnOldBlackMarble

ChrisZwolle said:


> People have a choice; driving or flying. There are several airports in greater Los Angeles. But often it turns out that if people have a choice, they still prefer to drive. You have great choice of public transport in Europe and driving is still by far the most popular means to get around (most countries have a driving share between 80 and 90%, which is only slightly lower than in the U.S.)
> 
> The rail project existence is based on the assumption that thousands of drivers would switch to the train. European experiences show there is no large modal shift. Most high-speed train users are those who used conventional trains before, which does not exist in this corridor. Thus, there is no proven ridership. Nobody would take a multi-billion dollar bet based on wild guesses, which rail ridership estimates usually are. These estimates are almost always far off the actual usage.
> 
> There is a difference in transportation forecasting between roads and rail. Road estimates are based on factors such as population growth, spatial developments, gasoline prices, etcetera. These forecasts are generally fairly accurate, except for most toll roads. They tend to underestimate urban road usage, but not by much. Rail ridership forecasting, on the other hand, is based on far less concrete data, mostly assumptions about how many people would switch from car to rail. These forecasts are almost always significantly off the actual ridership. There is extensive research on this subject, google "Bent Flyvbjerg" on Google for more information about this. He is a leading researcher about megaprojects, cost, risk and ridership / road forecasting.


Then make it a party train, it is Vegas after all. Why sit in traffic for 5 to 8 hours, when you can get wasted on a train on the way there, and take a nap on the way back home. :dunno: I know I would take it. The drive between Vegas and LA is fun the first couple of times but it gets old after a while. Flying is quick, through the air, but the airport hassles make it as long as driving and depending on how many people are going can be expensive. But of course the train would only work if it left from Los Angels proper and not some station in Victorville.


----------



## Haljackey

The Bay Bridge In San Francisco Is Closed Right For Construction. Here's A Timelapse Drive On The New Span.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Adding more lanes on I-15 is the only way to reduce the weekend/holiday congestion. If you think a high speed train reduces congestion; take a look at France, where the main holiday corridor is one of the best performing high speed trains in the world (Paris - Lyon - Marseille). Yet holiday congestion on the roads is one of the worst in all of Europe.

At the same time;

There is no high-frequency passenger train service between Los Angeles and Las Vegas. Current ridership on the Southwest Chief is less than 1000 passengers per day. All succesful high-speed services in Europe and Asia were the ones that alleviated intensively used conventional rail services. No such thing exists along the I-15 corridor.

European fuel prices are 2.5 - 3 times higher than the U.S. In addition, there are high tolls in most of Europe (and Japan). These are all things which would be inducive to a modal shift from driving to trains for long-distance travel, but there is no significant modal shift from driving to train travel. Only a very small modal shift was observed along high-speed rail in Europe (from driving to train). This effect is likely to be even smaller in the U.S., where there are no tolls and far lower fuel prices (hence lower out-of-pocket costs). 

In addition, fares for high-speed rail is often more expensive than flying, and always more expensive than driving, especially when traveling with multiple persons. Plus, congestion on I-15 north of Barstow is fairly limited to certain hours of the weekens, average traffic volumes are not that high, so few people are willing to switch from driving to the train for congestion reasons, after having driven already 100 miles in far more congestion-prone areas in Greater Los Angeles to reach the southern terminus in Victorville the first place.

Furthermore, there is no private interest in this HSR project. No private investor wants to put up billions for construction this high-speed rail, because it will never pay itself back. Nearly all passenger services don't even pay the cost of running the train back, not to mention the huge capital cost to construct the line in the first place. Also, building a high-speed rail in the median of I-15 (if even possible due to grades) prevents a cost-effective widening of I-15 in the future, because the railroad takes up the space in the median.

So the end result will be a huge money-losing high-speed rail service, no reduced congestion on I-15 and fewer options to widen I-15 within the existing right-of-way.


----------



## Road_UK

Have you driven there?


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> Adding more lanes on I-15 is the only way to reduce the weekend/holiday congestion. If you think a high speed train reduces congestion; take a look at France, where the main holiday corridor is one of the best performing high speed trains in the world (Paris - Lyon - Marseille). Yet holiday congestion on the roads is one of the worst in all of Europe.
> 
> At the same time;
> 
> There is no high-frequency passenger train service between Los Angeles and Las Vegas. Current ridership on the Southwest Chief is less than 1000 passengers per day. All succesful high-speed services in Europe and Asia were the ones that alleviated intensively used conventional rail services. No such thing exists along the I-15 corridor.
> 
> European fuel prices are 2.5 - 3 times higher than the U.S. In addition, there are high tolls in most of Europe (and Japan). These are all things which would be inducive to a modal shift from driving to trains for long-distance travel, but there is no significant modal shift from driving to train travel. Only a very small modal shift was observed along high-speed rail in Europe (from driving to train). This effect is likely to be even smaller in the U.S., where there are no tolls and far lower fuel prices (hence lower out-of-pocket costs).
> 
> In addition, fares for high-speed rail is often more expensive than flying, and always more expensive than driving, especially when traveling with multiple persons. Plus, congestion on I-15 north of Barstow is fairly limited to certain hours of the weekens, average traffic volumes are not that high, so few people are willing to switch from driving to the train for congestion reasons, after having driven already 100 miles in far more congestion-prone areas in Greater Los Angeles to reach the southern terminus in Victorville the first place.
> 
> Furthermore, there is no private interest in this HSR project. No private investor wants to put up billions for construction this high-speed rail, because it will never pay itself back. Nearly all passenger services don't even pay the cost of running the train back, not to mention the huge capital cost to construct the line in the first place. Also, building a high-speed rail in the median of I-15 (if even possible due to grades) prevents a cost-effective widening of I-15 in the future, because the railroad takes up the space in the median.
> 
> So the end result will be a huge money-losing high-speed rail service, no reduced congestion on I-15 and fewer options to widen I-15 within the existing right-of-way.


I agree that asking people to drive out to Victorville to catch the train is stupid.


----------



## geogregor

Road_UK said:


> Have you driven there?


I have, two or three times and it is quite heavily used road.
I was actually heading north to Vegas on one of the Fridays and traffic was a real pain. I was not completely stuck (like on the above photos) but due to bad lane discipline of American drivers it was constant battle trying to overtake slow moving cars.

Still, due to many other factors the HSR there would be a massive flop. I can't see it taking off anywhere in the US apart from some of the most used transport corridors, particularly Boston - Washington DC.


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## Road_UK

Cool. At least you know what's being discussed then, seeing that you know the setting...


----------



## Stuck in Bama

Penn's Woods said:


> Nice. But in trying to figure out what roads you were on, I'm stumped: how does anything in the Bay Area have exit numbers above 500??


Maybe US 101?


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## Penn's Woods

^^It begins in LA so I'd expect exit numbers a bit short of 400 around San Jose. But on reflection, it might be Cal. 1.


----------



## Stuck in Bama

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^It begins in LA so I'd expect exit numbers a bit short of 400 around San Jose. But on reflection, it might be Cal. 1.


Its CA 1. Its exit numbers are in the 500's in SF


----------



## geogregor

Stuck in Bama said:


> Its CA 1. Its exit numbers are in the 500's in SF


It is CA1 but it is almost I-280 as well. I was coming from the south joining short concurrence of CA1 and I-280.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-70 New Mississippi Bridge, St. Louis*

August photos.


MRB_5218 by missriverbridge_photos, on Flickr


MRB_5179 by missriverbridge_photos, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-35 San Antonio, TX*

http://www.drivefor35.com/

There are more managed lanes on the way for Texas. A study has been launched to improve 20 miles of I-35 between Downtown San Antonio and Schertz. It includes the reconstruction of the I-410 and Loop 1604 interchanges.

The current layout is mostly six lanes between I-37 and I-410 (north), eight lanes between I-410 and Loop 1604 and six lanes north of Loop 1604. They say they will construct the managed lanes within the existing right-of-way, which is quite tight at some locations.

San Antonio is the seventh largest city in the United States with a 2012 population of 1.3 million. It is located in Bexar County, which added almost 400,000 people since 2000. Schertz is located in Guadalupe County, which is growing from a sleepy rural area to a suburban area. It grew by 50,000 people since 2000. Guadalupe County remains very rural, only small parts near San Antonio and New Braunfels are urbanized, apart from the county seat of Seguin.

I wonder if there is a reason most Texas cities are growing to the north. San Antonio has not grown beyond the southern part of I-410, but has grown a good 20 miles north of the northern part of I-410. Austin, Dallas-Fort Worth and Houston seem to be following a similar pattern of northward growth.


----------



## rantanamo

In DFW development pretty much followed the farmland initially vs the more uncontrolled flood plain to the south of Dallas. As developers built onto that cheap, easy to develop farmland, white collar employers went their too. This just kept happening over and over and newer, larger freeways followed suit. Today, there's a huge corporate presence north of Dallas. To the northwest, there's huge railroad and air cargo capacity, so that's where most jobs are now. The only thing that has kept it all from going north is the easy access to downtown Dallas and corporate heavy Irving and DFW airport, large black middle class in the southern suburbs. Now the new inland port in South Dallas may be the driver that can significantly move more population to the south right now. Otherwise, it would probably take some corporate development.

In the bustle of noticing north/south growth, I think east/west growth is often ignored in DFW. You're just now starting to see significant growth to the east of Dallas as northern growth pushes out to far from the airports and core corporate presence. I think freeway infrastructure will follow over the next 20-30 years in that direction before it does to the south. There are already proposals for a new I-45 in Rockwall County, reconstructed I-30 and US 80 and more possible extensions to PGBT.


----------



## Ingsoc75

rantanamo said:


> In DFW development pretty much followed the farmland initially vs the more uncontrolled flood plain to the south of Dallas. As developers built onto that cheap, easy to develop farmland, white collar employers went their too. This just kept happening over and over and newer, larger freeways followed suit. Today, there's a huge corporate presence north of Dallas. To the northwest, there's huge railroad and air cargo capacity, so that's where most jobs are now. The only thing that has kept it all from going north is the easy access to downtown Dallas and corporate heavy Irving and DFW airport, large black middle class in the southern suburbs. Now the new inland port in South Dallas may be the driver that can significantly move more population to the south right now. Otherwise, it would probably take some corporate development.
> 
> In the bustle of noticing north/south growth, I think east/west growth is often ignored in DFW. You're just now starting to see significant growth to the east of Dallas as northern growth pushes out to far from the airports and core corporate presence. I think freeway infrastructure will follow over the next 20-30 years in that direction before it does to the south. There are already proposals for a new I-45 in Rockwall County, reconstructed I-30 and US 80 and more possible extensions to PGBT.


Is Fort Worth growing at all? I lived there between 2003-2005 and Big D seemed to always get all the attention.


----------



## rantanamo

Ingsoc75 said:


> Is Fort Worth growing at all? I lived there between 2003-2005 and Big D seemed to always get all the attention.


Fort Worth is one of the fastest growing cities in the country. Most of it is suburban development....................to the north, where they've annexed a lot of land. There is some urban development, but nothing like the boom going on in Dallas. Alliance Airport seems to be the driver, though you get lots of spillover from the north of DFW airport corporate employees as well. The freeway development in North Fort Worth has lots of plans including a huge expansion of I-35W and the current loop 820 reconstruction up that way. SH 114 is also being expanded as a freeway through those northern suburbs and north Fort Worth near I-35W. Even so, the metro is becoming more and more the Dallas metro as the northern sprawl monster of the Dallas MSA has already spilled into the old Fort Worth MSA. Just so many jobs in Irving, Plano, Frisco, Richardson area that the whole DFW metro is centering on that North Dallas County/Western Collin County area.


----------



## diablo234

ChrisZwolle said:


> I wonder if there is a reason most Texas cities are growing to the north. San Antonio has not grown beyond the southern part of I-410, but has grown a good 20 miles north of the northern part of I-410. Austin, Dallas-Fort Worth and Houston seem to be following a similar pattern of northward growth.


Actually Houston's growth is pretty much spread all over the map except for the eastern part however the bulk of the growth is occurring in the western part of the metro towards Katy and Sugar Land.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think Fort Worth is the fastest growing city with a population over 500,000. Unlike Dallas it has lots of land available to develop. Fort Worth added 240,000 people since 2000 (38.6% between 2000 and 2010). Growth rates like that are common for counties, but not city propers of large cities. Fort Worth proper even grows faster than Houston proper.

If you divide DFW into west (Fort Worth) and east (Dallas) metro areas, Dallas is clearly larger and faster growing in real terms, but Fort Worth comes from a lower base, and growth is impressive nonetheless. Fort Worth is also growing northward.


----------



## geogregor

diablo234 said:


> Actually Houston's growth is pretty much spread all over the map except for the eastern part however the bulk of the growth is occurring in the western part of the metro towards Katy and Sugar Land.


It might be due to environmental constrains. 
There is Galveston Bay and other bodies of water with all its marshes, industrial and oil developments etc to the east and south-east of Houston.
There is also a lot of flat areas there which must be prone to flooding, especially when tropical storms or hurricanes hit. 

Comparing to that, areas north and west of Houston look much more inviting. If I was ever moving to Houston that's where I would like to live myself.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They just constructed the western part of the Grand Parkway (SH 99) in time before it is build-out with subdivisions. Outward growth is now approaching the Grand Parkway (which is the third beltway of Houston). Growth is already occuring west of SH 99 in the Katy area. Still, Harris County has quite some space left to develop in the northwestern section. It could easily fit another million people.


----------



## Penn's Woods

In American cities generally, once it's established, for whatever real or silly reason, that one side of town is "fashionable," development will tend to favor that side of town. (No idea why the fashionable side should be north in every major city in Texas.)


----------



## Paddington

In Detroit also the North is where most of the sprawl is. The Southern suburbs are seen as undesirable because they are closer to and "downriver" from the heavy industry.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*naming and shaming*

*List of top toll road violators released*

Officials say the top violators, Ronny Williams and Cora Lewis of Pflugerville, owe $236,026.32 for 14,358 unpaid tolls. The next worst offenders according to TxDOT are Mandy and Stephen Dyment of Hutto. Officials say they owe $217, 619.79 for 10,566 unpaid tolls.

Read more: http://www.myfoxaustin.com/story/23718058/list-of-top-toll-road-violators-released#ixzz2i03E6tb9

14,358 unpaid tolls :nuts:

That's $ 16.45 per unpaid toll. I bet that includes a load of fees and fines as well.


----------



## Jschmuck

> List of top toll road violators released
> 
> Officials say the top violators, Ronny Williams and Cora Lewis of Pflugerville, owe $236,026.32 for 14,358 unpaid tolls. The next worst offenders according to TxDOT are Mandy and Stephen Dyment of Hutto. Officials say they owe $217, 619.79 for 10,566 unpaid tolls.
> 
> Read more: http://www.myfoxaustin.com/story/237...#ixzz2i03E6tb9
> 
> 14,358 unpaid tolls
> 
> That's $ 16.45 per unpaid toll. I bet that includes a load of fees and fines as well


Wish it says how many different violators there are.


----------



## Interstate275Fla

ChrisZwolle said:


> *List of top toll road violators released*
> 
> Officials say the top violators, Ronny Williams and Cora Lewis of Pflugerville, owe $236,026.32 for 14,358 unpaid tolls. The next worst offenders according to TxDOT are Mandy and Stephen Dyment of Hutto. Officials say they owe $217, 619.79 for 10,566 unpaid tolls.
> 
> Read more: http://www.myfoxaustin.com/story/23718058/list-of-top-toll-road-violators-released#ixzz2i03E6tb9
> 
> 14,358 unpaid tolls :nuts:
> 
> That's $ 16.45 per unpaid toll. I bet that includes a load of fees and fines as well.


A great idea by the Texas DOT: Name and shame the worst of the worst when it comes to toll violators. I certainly wish the Florida DOT could do the same for toll roads operated by Florida's Turnpike Enterprise and the Orlando-Orange County Expressway Authority (OOCEA) for toll roads in the Orlando area - after all, you got SunPass and E-Pass respectively.

Another thing to consider too is that if you got so many unpaid tolls, especially here in Florida, the toll road authority can have your state's DMV put a stop on your vehicle registration, meaning that you will be unable to renew your license plates when it comes time for renewal. I imagine that these two Texas violators can't renew their license plates until the back tolls are paid for, if Texas puts stops on vehicle registrations for unpaid tolls.


----------



## FM 2258

ChrisZwolle said:


> *List of top toll road violators released*
> 
> Officials say the top violators, Ronny Williams and Cora Lewis of Pflugerville, owe $236,026.32 for 14,358 unpaid tolls. The next worst offenders according to TxDOT are Mandy and Stephen Dyment of Hutto. Officials say they owe $217, 619.79 for 10,566 unpaid tolls.
> 
> Read more: http://www.myfoxaustin.com/story/23718058/list-of-top-toll-road-violators-released#ixzz2i03E6tb9
> 
> 14,358 unpaid tolls :nuts:
> 
> That's $ 16.45 per unpaid toll. I bet that includes a load of fees and fines as well.


The Texas Tollways people suck when it comes to adding on fees and fines to the bill. I borrowed my dad's truck last year, they sent him a notice to pay around $100. The initial toll bill was like $3. He said he did not get the initial pay-by-mail bill which could be a case of not paying attention to mail but after talking to a few people they've also run into the same predicament. It seems like they won't send you the first "$3" yet will wait 5 months and decide to send you the "$100" bill. I won't take a car on the tollway without a tag anymore, the pay-by-mail system fucking sucks. :wtf:


----------



## diablo234

FM 2258 said:


> The Texas Tollways people suck when it comes to adding on fees and fines to the bill. I borrowed my dad's truck last year, they sent him a notice to pay around $100. The initial toll bill was like $3. He said he did not get the initial pay-by-mail bill which could be a case of not paying attention to mail but after talking to a few people they've also run into the same predicament. It seems like they won't send you the first "$3" yet will wait 5 months and decide to send you the "$100" bill. I won't take a car on the tollway without a tag anymore, the pay-by-mail system fucking sucks. :wtf:


This is why I tend to avoid toll roads altogether especially if there is no manned toll booth.


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## geogregor

I only drive rental cars in the US and also don't use those toll highways which are unmanned. Even if there is transponder in the car (only once in Chicago) I never know if I don't end up with some silly fees added to my credit card.

No, thank you very much, I'll stick to free roads.


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-670 Kansas City, MO*


D5718_CM-12 by MoDOT Photos, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Illinois speed limits*

The speed limits will be raised in the state of Illinois, starting 1/1/14. The speed limit on rural segments of I-88 and I-90 tollways will be increased to 70 miles per hour.

This leaves only Wisconsin as the sole midwestern state with a retarded 65 mph speed limit, though it should be noted the far majority of the rural Illinois Interstates will keep their 65 mph limit for the time being. It's an ISHTA (Illinois State Toll Highway Authority) thing.


----------



## Road_UK

70 is a bit of a dragging speed limit as well. I wonder if they're ever going to put it up to 80 in the UK, which most people do anyway.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

If you drive across the US you'll find that people very rarely do the posted speed limit. The stupid low speed limits are basically revenue generators, people break them and get pulled over for speeding which increases funds.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-65 Louisville Bridge*

http://kyinbridges.com

A large project in Louisville is the construction of a second I-65 bridge across the Ohio River near downtown Louisville, and a new bridge that will link I-265 in Indiana and Kentucky.

At first, the new bridge seems hugely oversized, there current AADT is about 120,000 vehicles per day and you definitely don't need 12 lanes to handle that kind of traffic (8-10 would've been sufficient). Additionally, the combination of tolls and the construction of an alternate bridge are factors that usually depress traffic volumes, reducing the need for 6 lanes each way. And I-65 has only 2x3 through lanes through Louisville. Also, growth at the Indiana side is substantial, but not very large in real terms (it comes from a low base).

However, there are some considerations. First, there is an interchange immediately south of the bridge. There is no space to reduce lanes before you enter the bridge, hence the bridge needs this width to handle merging traffic anyway, at least for the southern part. There are certain design standards that state the length a roadway segment needs between a merge and lane reduction. 

Additionally, the existing John F. Kennedy Memorial Bridge from 1963 will not be around for decades. It will likely require replacement in the medium-term future. They could easily replace the bridge by swapping all traffic to the new bridge while still maintaining three lanes each way in the interim period.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

New sign for the I-95 / DE-1 interchange near the Christiana Mall in Delaware. It should've been mounted by now (the reconstructed interchange opened two weeks ago). 

Newark made me think twice here. It's Newark, Delaware, a nearby small city (and University of Delaware hometown), not Newark, New Jersey, which is also along I-95, but north from here. I'm sure the mentioning of Newark makes more sense in context (i.e. driving there and seeing the whole signage sequence).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-295, I-76 & NJ-42 interchange*

A video about the reconstruction of the I-295 / I-76 / NJ-42 interchange in Bellmawr, New Jersey (just outside Philadelphia).






I like the preferred alternative. It will improve traffic flow while reducing impact on the wetland by removing a long connector road for traffic along I-295 south.

It will also allow a new connection from NJ-42 north to I-295 south and vice versa. This connection is missing today.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Random reactions:



ChrisZwolle said:


> http://kyinbridges.com
> 
> A large project in Louisville is the construction of a second I-65 bridge across the Ohio River near downtown Louisville, and a new bridge that will link I-265 in Indiana and Kentucky.
> 
> At first, the new bridge seems hugely oversized, there current AADT is about 120,000 vehicles per day and you definitely don't need 12 lanes to handle that kind of traffic (8-10 would've been sufficient). Additionally, the combination of tolls and the construction of an alternate bridge are factors that usually depress traffic volumes, reducing the need for 6 lanes each way. And I-65 has only 2x3 through lanes through Louisville. Also, growth at the Indiana side is substantial, but not very large in real terms (it comes from a low base).
> 
> However, there are some considerations. First, there is an interchange immediately south of the bridge. There is no space to reduce lanes before you enter the bridge, hence the bridge needs this width to handle merging traffic anyway, at least for the southern part. There are certain design standards that state the length a roadway segment needs between a merge and lane reduction.
> 
> Additionally, the existing John F. Kennedy Memorial Bridge from 1963 will not be around for decades. It will likely require replacement in the medium-term future. They could easily replace the bridge by swapping all traffic to the new bridge while still maintaining three lanes each way in the interim period.


AADT is one thing, but how much of that comes in rush hours? Downtown Louisville (and that 64/65/71 interchange) and there is suburban development and small cities on the Indiana side... 265 wouldn't help with that, I'd think; it would mostly be relevant to people doing things like Evansville-to-Cincinnati or Indianapolis-to-Lexington.





ChrisZwolle said:


> New sign for the I-95 / DE-1 interchange near the Christiana Mall in Delaware. It should've been mounted by now (the reconstructed interchange opened two weeks ago).
> 
> Newark made me think twice here. It's Newark, Delaware, a nearby small city (and University of Delaware hometown), not Newark, New Jersey, which is also along I-95, but north from here. I'm sure the mentioning of Newark makes more sense in context (i.e. driving there and seeing the whole signage sequence).


Little-known fact: the two Newarks are pronounced differently. The New Jersey one like Noo'erk (some old-timers even condense it to a single syllable - sort of "Nerk"), the Delaware one like New Ark. Stress still on the "New," but "Ark" pronounced with a full A sound.

As far as that sign's concerned, Newark N.J.'s the other direction and over 100 miles away. That "Newark/Baltimore" southbound tends to be juxtaposed with "Wilmington/Philadelphia" going the other way.



ChrisZwolle said:


> A video about the reconstruction of the I-295 / I-76 / NJ-42 interchange in Bellmawr, New Jersey (just outside Philadelphia).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like the preferred alternative. It will improve traffic flow while reducing impact on the wetland by removing a long connector road for traffic along I-295 south.
> 
> It will also allow a new connection from NJ-42 north to I-295 south and vice versa. This connection is missing today.


High time that connection was there, but when are the freeways in that area going to connect to the New Jersey Turnpike (which actually crosses 42 about 2 miles or less south of there)?


----------



## JimInJersey

Re ChrisZ and PennsWoods - as another localite, it's nice to see that I-95/DE 7 interchange finally getting off the ground, so to speak. That areas been chewed up for four or five years now. And thank goodness for a I-295NB access to the N-S Freeway and ACE to Atlantic City finally. That's another cocked-up area that's been under construction for a decade..

Down here in Salem County, we're 50 miles from anywhere, and it's a real pain to try to get to the Jersey shore - anyone who takes Rt 40 all the way is out of their mind, and until now, there's not been any way at all to get to the AC Expressway.


----------



## Scba

That whole Christiana area is a nightmare, I really hope when this is finally all done, things ease up a bit.


----------



## Xusein

geogregor said:


> I only drive rental cars in the US and also don't use those toll highways which are unmanned. Even if there is transponder in the car (only once in Chicago) I never know if I don't end up with some silly fees added to my credit card.


When I went to Chicago a few years ago, I accidentally went under one of those e-tolls and never got charged. I think it was because I was from a state that was far (Connecticut). Meanwhile when I accidentally took the 407 ETR just outside Toronto, I got a letter in the mail a few weeks later. I guess Ontario "recognizes" my plate whereas IL did not.


----------



## Xusein

ChrisZwolle said:


>


Looks kind of Canadian.









http://www.thekingshighway.ca/PHOTOS/hwy401-1026_lg.jpg

Not a fan of the upward arrows btw.


----------



## geogregor

Some of my shots of the interstate 15 in Utah


















I didn't know that Utah raised speed limit to 80mph. I thought that Texas was the only one. Great idea, on this long stretches of the interstates even 80 seems like snail's pace.
Is there 80mph limit in any other states? Any plans of introducing it? 
Dakotas or western Kansas or Nebraska come to mind as places where it could be safely done. 


















Sorry a bit blurred but I wanted to show the sign.









In the US signs like this one should stand every half a mile, preferably with flashing pink neon lights to catch the driver's attention 









Small acident ahead









I love those big shiny tankers


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice  Utah has had 80 mph limits for a while now (perhaps even preceding Texas, I'm not sure) and they are in the process of rolling out more sections with 80 mph, especially on I-15 and I-80 (it's not planned on I-70 as far as I am aware).


----------



## JimInJersey

geogregor said:


> Some of my shots of the interstate 15 in Utah. I didn't know that Utah raised speed limit to 80mph. I thought that Texas was the only one. Great idea, on this long stretches of the interstates even 80 seems like snail's pace. Is there 80mph limit in any other states? Any plans of introducing it? Dakotas or western Kansas or Nebraska come to mind as places where it could be safely done.


Haven't driven them lately but I think parts of rural Montana, Nevada and Texas might allow 80. 

I took some along I-15 in Utah last summer, between SLC and Salina.


Nephi & I-15 South-11 by Jimbo in Jersey, on Flickr

Brush Fire in the foothills

Nephi & I-15 South-19 by Jimbo in Jersey, on Flickr


Nephi & I-15 South-31 by Jimbo in Jersey, on Flickr


----------



## Suburbanist

*Neat scheme of Los Angeles freeways*

I think this is a very interesting graphic scheme of all freeways in Los Angeles area

It is a large file but pointless if compressed


----------



## Tom 958

Blurriness is entirely appropriate for this photo:


----------



## jsfox

Is anyone aware of information comparing efficiency of US and EU motorways? I would assume that EU are considerably more efficient but have been unable to find any studies or data.

Thanks,


----------



## Road_UK

jsfox said:


> Is anyone aware of information comparing efficiency of US and EU motorways? I would assume that EU are considerably more efficient but have been unable to find any studies or data.
> 
> Thanks,


That's a bit of a contraband subject in this section of SSC I'm afraid. A thread dedicated to EU v USA highways has recently been shut down as this subject has been deemed unhelpful in bilateral relationships between our two great continents. 

In plain English: my dick is bigger than yours themes are strongly discouraged.


----------



## jsfox

geogregor said:


> Well, the only reason for eventual difference I can think of must be the different driving styles.


Agree. And I'd guess this would primarily be left lane use (or blocking in the U.S.). What I'd like to know is if there is a difference. If the way people in the EU or specific countries drive does make motorways more efficient and less likely to need additional lanes or less likely to get congested.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-635 LBJ Express, Dallas, TX*

Aerial video that shows the current progress of the LBJ Express megaproject.


----------



## rantanamo

crazy. i haven't been on i-635 in a couple of months, and now they are opening a section in one month. It looked like no section was even close last time i was on it. I don't think the aerial portion of that video is recent either. The section they showed on the news this morning from the high five to the Dallas North Tollway looked almost completed like the rendering with the trench part already dug out.


----------



## rantanamo

http://www.wfaa.com/news/consumer/L...-change-tolls-based-on-traffic-231815361.html

you can see the portion that will open at 2:17 in the video


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-820 / TX-121 North Tarrant Express, Texas*

NTE also made a video.


----------



## rantanamo




----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-35E, Dallas, TX*

I-35E in Dallas. Currently the busiest stretch of freeway in North Texas.


Pre-game by Justin Terveen, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-35W in Minneapolis


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Funding has been approved for two major projects in MSP.

The largest project is the extension of Route 610 to I-94. $ 100 million has been made available for this project. The second largest project is the widening of I-94 to six lanes northwest of MSP.












Also an interesting project; the St. Croix River Crossing near Stillwater, Minnesota. It will open in late 2016.

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/stcroixcrossing/


----------



## Penn's Woods

I'm not sure of the exact date and I'm too lazy at the moment to look it up, but we're close (a few days at most) to the 50th anniversary of the opening of I-95 between Baltimore and Wilmington. It's named the John F. Kennedy Highway because he opened it about a week before he was assassinated, and the 50th anniversary of that is next Friday. (Time flies.)


----------



## Ingsoc75

Texas was the first state (post-NMSL) to enact an 80 mph speed limit in 2006. It was initially only allowed in counties that had less than 15 people per square mile.

Utah began their 80 mph trial zones in 2008 or early 2009. 

I think we will see more states adopt 75+ mph or higher speed limits in the future. Especially states that allow setting maximum speeds to certain highways (like Louisiana and Maine's 75 mph zones).

A lawmaker in New York is trying to get the speed limit raised to 75 mph. :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Ingsoc75 said:


> A lawmaker in New York is trying to get the speed limit raised to 75 mph. :lol:


That doesn't sound so weird to me. New York is more than just New York City and suburbs. Upstate Interstates could likely support a 75 mph speed limit, especially the Thruway sections. 

Basically any normally designed rural freeway, even when designed in the 1950s or 1960s, can support a 75 mph speed limit.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

^^Exactly most people go those speeds anyways right now.


----------



## darko06

A picture from my visit to the States in spring this year. I-70 from Dayton to Pittsburgh, somewhere eastern of Columbus, OH:


----------



## Ingsoc75

ChrisZwolle said:


> That doesn't sound so weird to me. New York is more than just New York City and suburbs. Upstate Interstates could likely support a 75 mph speed limit, especially the Thruway sections.
> 
> Basically any normally designed rural freeway, even when designed in the 1950s or 1960s, can support a 75 mph speed limit.


I lived in upstate NY for a little while and the only stretch I could see getting a speed limit higher than 65 would be *I-87 between Saratoga Springs and the Canadian border*. 

I can't see any influential NY lawmakers (who are most likely from the NYC area) allowing this.


----------



## CNB30

I must say, having 2 expressways intersect 60 feet over downtown Richmond is quite a presence.


----------



## JohnFlint1985

ChrisZwolle said:


>


I wonder why all these middle size bridges are being constructed with the same idea/design? I already saw like 4 bridges with the same principle. Suspension bridge is out of fashion?


----------



## Suburbanist

JohnFlint1985 said:


> I wonder why all these middle size bridges are being constructed with the same idea/design? I already saw like 4 bridges with the same principle. Suspension bridge is out of fashion?


Just more expensive. Developments on the applications of cable-stayed bridges rendered them more effective for many uses that wouldn't previously consider them up to the 1990s.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Cable-stayed bridges are a relatively new development in the U.S. There were some built in the 1980s and 1990s but it didn't become a common solution until after 2000. Many cable-stayed bridges have been constructed across major rivers and waterways in the last decade or so. 

Cable-stayed bridges were applied earlier in Europe, the first modern cable-stayed bridge is considered to be the Strömsund Bridge in Sweden, which opened in 1956. Germany built a load of them across rivers in the 1960s-1980s and still does. Many earlier cable-stayed bridges were made of steel, but concrete is preferred nowadays because steel is now 3 times more expensive than it was in the 1990s and before.


----------



## siamu maharaj

What about the old-fashioned bridges that are only supported from below? Won't they be the cheapest?


----------



## sotonsi

ChrisZwolle said:


> This one actually makes sense, as a connection between I-95 and the state capital, Raleigh, which also happens to be one of the fastest growing metro areas in the U.S.


It is bizarre how Raleigh was left off the initial network, with interstates nearby (I-85 and I-95).

It's finally getting a direct interstate connection to Virginia...


----------



## Penn's Woods

sotonsi said:


> It is bizarre how Raleigh was left off the initial network, with interstates nearby (I-85 and I-95).
> 
> It's finally getting a direct interstate connection to Virginia...


Raleigh was much smaller in those days. Didn't pass the 100,000 mark until the 1970 census. My guess, just from knowing the map, is they meant 95 as an express Northeast-to-Florida route and that's why it tracked so close to US 301 - passing east of Raleigh - and routing 85 through Raleigh would have cut off Durham and Greensboro. Which, taken together, are (or were at the time) considerably larger. Greensboro alone was bigger than Raleigh, actually.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Raleigh also was not connected to Wilmington until relatively late by Interstate standards. Most of I-40 was completed between 1986 and 1990 between the two cities, a good decade later after most of the IH network was completed.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Last time I was in Raleigh - 1987 - I got there using 95 and...I guess US 64. (Coming from Petersburg, Va.) I don't remember whether 64 was a freeway at the time. I don't remember much traffic but it was a hot Sunday afternoon.

EDIT: For that matter, I remember a family trip to Florida in 1978 on which we had to use 301 because bits of 95 in that area weren't open yet.


----------



## diablo234

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yes, I-14 for the US 190 freeway between Killeen and Temple in Texas is just a bad idea. Not every freeway needs to be an Interstate Highway.


If there is need for a new interstate highway in Texas it is to connect Houston with Austin. Killeen and Temple do not need an east/west freeway.


----------



## sotonsi

diablo234 said:


> Killeen and Temple do not need an east/west freeway.


They already do. I gather it is quite busy, and is 6-lane.

What ChrisZwolle is talking about is the proposal to make it I-14. I-335 or something is better.


----------



## FM 2258

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yes, I-14 for the US 190 freeway between Killeen and Temple in Texas is just a bad idea. Not every freeway needs to be an Interstate Highway.


Is this really in the plans? This idea would make absolutely no sense.


----------



## geogregor

From Hoover Dam towards LA, I-515, I-215 and I-15













































Piatkowy ruch do Las Vegas Boulevard









A to juz I-15 z Vegas do LA


----------



## geogregor

Border of Nevada and California













































This stretch of I-15 (from Nevada border to Barstow) is a bloody nightmare. Lane discipline is so poor that it is practically nonexistent. Over the years I drove it 3 or 4 times at different days and hours and it is always bad, even if not always totally hopeless.
hno:hno:hno:hno:









Next day I-15 closer to LA


















LA region next time.


----------



## geogregor

Driving towards Santa Monica

















































































Coming close to downtown LA


----------



## geogregor

Three more from close to downtown LA


----------



## Tom 958

I had a hard time figuring out where this is:









Here it is, though. It's weird that I-10 exits itself like that, but I guess that signing it the correct way would've been even more confusing. hno:


----------



## SimcityOrbis

Ah yes that notorious interchange - driven it a few times here :nuts: Basically I-5 and I-10 become one for a short drive. It's the only way for I-10 to continue west & east is to use I-5's north & south direction for a short segment thus throwing off those who aren't familiar with the area. "Only time when west means going south or vise versa" :lol:


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^There are places like that all over the country. I-94 - officially east-and-west - is basically north-south for 100 miles or so between Milwaukee and Chicago (and then through Chicago to the suburbs).

For that matter, take a look at Geogregor's avatar.

And this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concurrency_(road)#Wrong-way_concurrency


----------



## SimcityOrbis

^ I'm aware and beautiful signage sir :nuts:


----------



## Professor L Gee

Gotta love it:









(crosscountryroads.com)


----------



## Paddington

There's one of those in the East (San Francisco) Bay, where the expressway is both opposite directions at the same time.


----------



## jsfox

ChrisZwolle said:


> Funding has been approved for two major projects in MSP... The second largest project is the widening of I-94 to six lanes northwest of MSP.


According to MN DOT this stretch of highway has an AADT of 56,000 and has been leveled off at about that for a number of years. In attempting to decipher German and NL highway capacity calc's and U.S. calc's, this shouldn't really need another lane. U.S. calc's seem to say add a lane @ 60,000 and NL would at 72,000. Germany seems to have two different specs, one that would add a lane @ 72,000 and another that would add a lane @ 85,000 (not sure when one or the other would apply but seems to be the appetite for spending money to achieve specific free-flow rates).

What I'm wondering is if this lane is really necessary? Would keeping people from blocking the left lane have any significant improvement on traffic flow, or very minimal?

That's what this article seems to be saying, though it doesn't give any statistics to back up what it says: http://www.streets.mn/2013/08/13/6604/


----------



## keokiracer

I don't know where they got the data from, but I have a totally different view of widenings over here.
Germany sometimes adds a lane when there's 55.000 vehicles per day. In NL we have stretches without future plans with over 100.000 vehicles per day on 4 lanes.
The 85.000 mentioned ofr Germany seems to be more appropriate for The Netherlands.



> Their law enforcement knows the importance of keeping the lanes open for traffic flow and are much quicker to ticket someone for blocking a lane (left or middle) than speeding.


Looking at The Netherlands I am laughing my ass off right now. It's the _complete_ opposite.
We have approx 13 million tickets a year given in NL. Approx 10 million of those are for speeders. Left/Middle lane hogging is barely on the charts. It's easier to cash in on speeders (just set up a speed trap and wait) than actually doing something and getting left lane hoggers off the road.


----------



## Road_UK

The amount of lane hoggers in the Netherlands are relatively low compared to Germany, Belgium, Italy and the UK. The Dutch, however, are scared of shoulder running, like they are in any other country.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Traffic volumes only tell a part of the story. It's also important to note the volume of trucks, a 60,000 AADT 4-lane freeway can have a sluggish traffic flow if there is a high truck share. 

Another considering is cost vs benefit. Urban freeways are often expensive to widen, so they won't go forward with it unless there is significant congestion. At the same time rural widenings are usually cheap, so the cost is not a huge factor in decision making as it is with urban/suburban projects. Most of I-94 has a wide median, so they don't need to acquire a lot of new right-of-way.


----------



## Tom 958

Directional distribution is important, too. I've seen freeways in Atlanta that experienced severe rush hour backups with as little as 10,000 vehicles per day, even with low truck volumes, because the directional split was so extreme.

Also, it may be that the segment of I-94 in question requires pavement reconstruction, and adding a lane in each direction would likely make construction phasing easier. I'm just guessing about that, though.


----------



## ILTarantino

There is no road maintenance in southern states hno:
North-eastern freeways look better. This difference doesn't exist in the EU member states


----------



## geogregor

ILTarantino said:


> There is no road maintenance in southern states hno:
> North-eastern freeways look better. This difference doesn't exist in the EU member states


Are you serious? I would rather say that many southern states have excelent modern roads while the roads in the NE region are all aging and crumbling.
North Carolina or Georgia or Florida roads are much better than Pennsylwania or New York ones.


----------



## Jschmuck

> Are you serious? I would rather say that many southern states have excelent modern roads while the roads in the NE region are all aging and crumbling.
> North Carolina or Georgia or Florida roads are much better than Pennsylwania or New York ones


due to the freeze/thaw cycles. Roads in the south need less maintenance while the northern states need to allocate more funds toward road maintenance.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ILTarantino said:


> There is no road maintenance in southern states hno:
> North-eastern freeways look better. This difference doesn't exist in the EU member states





geogregor said:


> Are you serious? I would rather say that many southern states have excelent modern roads while the roads in the NE region are all aging and crumbling.
> North Carolina or Georgia or Florida roads are much better than Pennsylwania or New York ones.


Again with the European "experts" on America....hno:

(And - while I admit to not being an expert on European roads, just from what I've seen and read here, the notion that such differences don't exist in the EU would attract considerable disagreement from Europeans.)


----------



## BriedisUnIzlietne

ILTarantino said:


> There is no road maintenance in southern states hno:
> North-eastern freeways look better. *This difference doesn't exist in the EU member states*


I wish... Some examples of almost no maintenance in my Latvia:
2x2 A2/E77 in Garkalne - 19 486 cars/day
2x2 A6/E262 in Līksna - 2 971 cars/day
1x1 A8/E77 in Vircava - 3 128 cars/day
1x1 A2/E77 in Ape - 874 cars/day (the least used A road in the country)

But the good condition roads are maintained accordingly:
3x3 A10/E22 in Babīte - 39 094 cars/day
2x2 A8/E77 in Dalbe - 13 864 cars/day
1x1 A1/E67 in Ādaži - 18 894 cars/day
1x2 A12/E22 in Zilupe - 1 816 cars/day

A map showing the condition of main roads


----------



## Suburbanist

A8, near Yuma









Source


----------



## Tom 958

Suburbanist said:


> A8, near Yuma


Is that Autobahn, Autoroute, Autopista, Autostrada, Autoput, or Autoschnellwegen? :banana:


----------



## CNGL

Suburbanist said:


> I-8, near Yuma
> 
> Source


FTFY.


----------



## VoltAmps

ILTarantino said:


> There is no road maintenance in southern states hno:
> North-eastern freeways look better. This difference doesn't exist in the EU member states


Are you serious? You probably have never even been to the US

I've travelled Europe and there is no continuity between European countries. But you can find third world goat trails in every EU country unlike the US


----------



## Suburbanist

Tom 958 said:


> Is that Autobahn, Autoroute, Autopista, Autostrada, Autoput, or Autoschnellwegen? :banana:


Sorry, that was a slip


----------



## Professor L Gee

geogregor said:


> Are you serious? I would rather say that many southern states have excelent modern roads while the roads in the NE region are all aging and crumbling.
> North Carolina or Georgia or Florida roads are much better than Pennsylwania or New York ones.


Can't speak for northern rural freeways outside of Maryland, but as far as urban freeways go, the road quality in the South wins and it's not even close.

Somebody mentioned that the freeze/thaw cycles up north contribute to it, and I would say that that's mostly true.


----------



## Nexis

Your speed is... by Jersey JJ, on Flickr


----------



## geogregor

Penn's Woods said:


> Again with the European "experts" on America....hno:
> 
> (And - while I admit to not being an expert on European roads, just from what I've seen and read here, the notion that such differences don't exist in the EU would attract considerable disagreement from Europeans.)


I never said there are no differences in Europe. In fact they are much bigger than in the US.

I just disagreed with ILTarantino statement about roads in the south being less maintained than in the NE stares.

From my experience (and I have visited EVERY of the lower 48 states) roads in the south have largely batter standard than in the NE. Of course there always will be some exceptions but it is general trend.


----------



## jsfox

ChrisZwolle said:


> Traffic volumes only tell a part of the story. It's also important to note the volume of trucks, a 60,000 AADT 4-lane freeway can have a sluggish traffic flow if there is a high truck share.


Great point on the trucks. Unfortunately the AADT numbers I've found don't break out by vehicle type. 

They also don't break out by routine peaks. One interstate by us indicates AADT of 61,000 but it only gets clogged on Friday evenings when everyone is heading out of the city for the weekend, otherwise it flows pretty good.


----------



## jsfox

keokiracer said:


> I don't know where they got the data from, but I have a totally different view of widenings over here. Germany sometimes adds a lane when there's 55.000 vehicles per day. In NL we have stretches without future plans with over 100.000 vehicles per day on 4 lanes. The 85.000 mentioned of Germany seems to be more appropriate for The Netherlands.


Thanks for this. I wonder if some of the difference is urban/rural? The earlier higher numbers in Germany would make sense in rural areas where traffic is traveling quite a bit faster and thus each lane should be able to handle a much higher AADT. Of the cities I visit regularly Rotterdam does seem like one of the worst for congestion.


----------



## jsfox

Road_UK said:


> The amount of lane hoggers in the Netherlands are relatively low compared to Germany, Belgium, Italy and the UK.


All, and the absolute worst, of these are vastly better than anywhere in the U.S. though. For several years I commuted to Brussels on a somewhat regular basis. I always considered Belgian drivers about the worst in Europe, but coming back to the U.S. was always horribly frustrating due to left lane blockers, people merging on to freeways going 40mph, weaving in and out of traffic, and even fewer using blinkers here than in Belgium. This was also what sparked my interest in this issue.

Germany, France, NL, Italy, and even Belgium are heaven to drive compared to our U.S. highways. But the bigger issue, for me, is that EU motorways seem to be far more efficient (handle more cars per lane without clogging and allow drivers to get where they're going faster) and much safer (drivers on U.S. interstates kill about 3 or 4 times as many people, per mile driven, than drivers on EU motorways). Which keeps leaving me with the questions of how can our interstates and highways and roads and streets be improved?


----------



## Jschmuck

> Which keeps leaving me with the questions of how can our interstates and highways and roads and streets be improved


institute the same penalty system as Europe for bad driving.


----------



## tradephoric

jsfox said:


> All, and the absolute worst, of these are vastly better than anywhere in the U.S. though. For several years I commuted to Brussels on a somewhat regular basis. I always considered Belgian drivers about the worst in Europe, but coming back to the U.S. was always horribly frustrating due to left lane blockers, people merging on to freeways going 40mph, weaving in and out of traffic, and even fewer using blinkers here than in Belgium. This was also what sparked my interest in this issue.
> 
> Germany, France, NL, Italy, and even Belgium are heaven to drive compared to our U.S. highways. But the bigger issue, for me, is that EU motorways seem to be far more efficient (handle more cars per lane without clogging and allow drivers to get where they're going faster) and much safer (drivers on U.S. interstates kill about 3 or 4 times as many people, per mile driven, than drivers on EU motorways). Which keeps leaving me with the questions of how can our interstates and highways and roads and streets be improved?


There are quite a few countries in the EU that have a higher fatality rate per mile driven than the USA. These include:


 Belgium
Bulgaria
Croatia
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Estonia
Greece
Latvia
Lithuania
Romania
Slovenia
Portugal (same fatality rate as the USA)


----------



## diablo234

A video of the Pennsylvania Turnpike (I-76) which was one of the first controlled access highways/interstates to be built in the US.


----------



## Stuck in Bama

Judge rules against the environmental group Black Warrior Riverkeepers, giving the go ahead for construction of the first segment of the Northern Beltline. (I-422) First segment is 1.8 miles between Alabama 75 and Alabama 79 Northeast of Birmingham. Construction is expected to begin by this summer. 

http://northernbeltline.org/news/fe...-block-construction-of-the-northern-beltline/


----------



## Stuck in Bama

I-65 North from mile marker 250 to mile marker 266.


----------



## emyrr3096

here's the right thread to post this  LOL

I-75(US-23) & I-69, Michigan. 

the road condition in both of these Interstate for me still in good condition. the speed limit is 70mph and 60mph for truck. run back and forward made vice versa road trip around 300miles:lol: for me as a foreigner it's kinda crazy but here I'am in United States:cheers:

snow and ice not really bothered by the way. kinda funny both of east / west bound of I-69 & I-96 and south / north bound of I-75(US-23) fewer traffic after 8pm


----------



## wkiehl101

Stuck in Bama said:


> I-65 North from mile marker 250 to mile marker 266.


Malfunction Junction doesn't look like it would be so bad were it not in such a confined space...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-69 Mississippi River Bridge*

The location of the planned I-69 Mississippi River Bridge is just north of Arkansas City, Arkansas.










The projected volume is only 4,400 vehicles per day if only this segment would be constructed, but 20,500 vehicles per day if the I-69 corridor would be completed by 2030.

I'm not really convinced about the need of I-69 between Shreveport and Memphis. The route is nearly identical in length to I-49/30/40 via Little Rock. In addition, the I-69 route will not serve any towns bigger than El Dorado, AR and Clarksdale, MS, both of which have a population near 20,000.

It makes more sense for Arkansas to construct I-49 between Texarkana and Fort Smith. There are no good freeway alternatives for New Orleans / Shreveport - Kansas City, while I-69 will be redundant.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-29/80 Council Bluffs, IA*

A major $ 2 billion project is ongoing in Council Bluffs, Iowa. It will improve I-29 and I-80 around the city. The interchanges between I-29, I-80 and I-480 will be rebuild and the I-29/80 concurrency will be widened to a dual-dual system with 12 lanes to separate through traffic from local and I-29 traffic. It's a multi-phase project that will run into the 2020s


----------



## Penn's Woods

Front page of today's Philadelphia Inquirer (philly.com, but I think you need to be a subscriber) has an article about the Pennsylvania Turnpike/I-95 connection. Key info: the movements from 95 northbound to the Turnpike eastbound and vice versa - the movements that will finally make a continuous I-95 - are expected to be doable in 2018.

I'll read it more carefully later; just picked up the office copy of the paper.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Los Angeles*


Freeway: Modern Temple, Los Angeles (completed 1993) by Eric Lassiter, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-215 San Bernardino, CA*

Caltrans today announced the completion of a “major overhaul” of Interstate 215, which includes 15 new bridges, four new lanes, two flyovers and the reconstruction of 34 ramps along the 7.5 mile route.

The project included construction of new general use and carpool lanes in both directions of I-215 from I-10 to SR-210 and an auxiliary lane from SR-210 to just south of University Parkway. Connector ramps between I-215 and SR-210 were also added to improve mobility between freeways. Crews also built 15 new bridges and two flyovers and reconstructed 34 ramps. Artistic features on retaining walls reflect the San Bernardino Mountains, the region’s railroad history, and natural springs have also been added along the roadway.

This four-phase project was a close partnership between SANBAG (San Bernardino Associated Governments), Caltrans, the city of San Bernardino, and the Federal Highway Administration. The seven-year, $647 million project will reduce travel times and increase safety along one of the region’s major transit corridors. This project also created and supported thousands of jobs in the San Bernardino area.​
press release

This was a major widening project, and one of the few major widening projects in Southern California to include a new free general purpose lane. The Interstate 215 has been widened from six to ten lanes.


----------



## JohnFlint1985

ChrisZwolle said:


> Freeway: Modern Temple, Los Angeles (completed 1993) by Eric Lassiter, on Flickr


never tired of looking at this :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-5, Seattle*

Interstate 5 in Seattle.

Seattle by RickrPhoto, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-285, Atlanta, GA*

Yesterday's chaos.


Traffic is snarled along the I-285 perimeter north of the metro area after a winter snow storm on Jan. 29 in Atlanta. Georgia Gov. Nathan Deal said early Wednesday that the National Guard was sending military Humvees onto Atlanta's snarled freeway system by Q8India, on Flickr


----------



## Tom 958

Despite all that's been written about yesterday's debacle, I don't think anything could've been done to prevent it except going into panic mode based on the rather benign-sounding weather forecast.

I wish I could find that .gif of Navigator traffic reports that showed the freeway system going from 100% green to 99% red between 11:57am and 1:15pm.

Myself, I really lucked out-- I was sick as dog Tuesday morning. I went into work because there are certain things at work that might have needed to have been done and that only I could do. But I ended up sitting in my truck coughing and sleeping until my boss sent me home at 10:30 or so. I got home before the snow hit. He left at noon and didn't make it home until 11:15pm. It took him four hours just to get from Brookhaven to I-285.


----------



## keokiracer

Tom 958 said:


> I wish I could find that .gif of Navigator traffic reports that showed the freeway system going from 100% green to 99% red between 11:57am and 1:15pm.


I've got a video  (start at 0:40)


----------



## Penn's Woods

Tom 958 said:


> Despite all that's been written about yesterday's debacle, I don't think anything could've been done to prevent it except going into panic mode based on the rather benign-sounding weather forecast.
> 
> I wish I could find that .gif of Navigator traffic reports that showed the freeway system going from 100% green to 99% red between 11:57am and 1:15pm.
> 
> Myself, I really lucked out-- I was sick as dog Tuesday morning. I went into work because there are certain things at work that might have needed to have been done and that only I could do. But I ended up sitting in my truck coughing and sleeping until my boss sent me home at 10:30 or so. I got home before the snow hit. He left at noon and didn't make it home until 11:15pm. It took him four hours just to get from Brookhaven to I-285.


Good to have input from a local.
:cheers:


----------



## OriK

Don't they use salt for avoiding such kind of collapses?


----------



## Penn's Woods

1) I've heard (from the guy who manages the building I work in) that salt is ineffective if it's too cold (below 20F, about -7C). It was that cold in Atlanta that day.

2) Southern jurisdictions don't get a lot of this sort of thing so don't necessarily have a big supply of things like salt or the budget to buy it. (I don't mean to pick on the English here, but similar or smaller amounts of snow have been known to cause similar chaos there and even shut down Heathrow.... And the "we don't have enough snowplows because we don't need them" argument is the usual justification you'll hear from them. It even came up on Top Gear a couple of winters ago.)

3) The storm started in the middle of the day, and the roads were full of people who'd just been let out of work because of it or who were trying to get to their kids' schools because they'd been closed.... Can't plow or salt a road that's full of traffic. (Same thing happened here in Philadelphia, although with much more snow, a couple of weeks ago. We were expecting snow, but not the 14 inches/35 cm we got, so everyone left work at noon... we had a nasty, all-afternoon rush hour and the plows couldn't do much until the traffic had cleared.)

All that said, every meteorologist on TV here - and they normally won't weigh in on political debates - is saying that if the responsible officials had been paying attention, the weather forecasts turned bad in ample time for them to at least order people off the roads and order the schools closed from the beginning of the day.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Snow plows


IDOT Snow Plows by Illinois Department of Transportation, on Flickr


IMG_7438 by VaDOT, on Flickr


----------



## OriK

Penn's Woods said:


> 1) I've heard (from the guy who manages the building I work in) that salt is ineffective if it's too cold (below 20F, about -7C). It was that cold in Atlanta that day.
> 
> 2) Southern jurisdictions don't get a lot of this sort of thing so don't necessarily have a big supply of things like salt or the budget to buy it. (I don't mean to pick on the English here, but similar or smaller amounts of snow have been known to cause similar chaos there and even shut down Heathrow.... And the "we don't have enough snowplows because we don't need them" argument is the usual justification you'll hear from them. It even came up on Top Gear a couple of winters ago.)
> 
> 3) The storm started in the middle of the day, and the roads were full of people who'd just been let out of work because of it or who were trying to get to their kids' schools because they'd been closed.... Can't plow or salt a road that's full of traffic. (Same thing happened here in Philadelphia, although with much more snow, a couple of weeks ago. We were expecting snow, but not the 14 inches/35 cm we got, so everyone left work at noon... we had a nasty, all-afternoon rush hour and the plows couldn't do much until the traffic had cleared.)
> 
> All that said, every meteorologist on TV here - and they normally won't weigh in on political debates - is saying that if the responsible officials had been paying attention, the weather forecasts turned bad in ample time for them to at least order people off the roads and order the schools closed from the beginning of the day.


Of course the collapse was unavoidable but I'm more worried about the time it took to solve it. But maybe it has a lot to do with the massive use of cars in such conditions...


----------



## wkiehl101

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yesterday's chaos.
> 
> 
> Traffic is snarled along the I-285 perimeter north of the metro area after a winter snow storm on Jan. 29 in Atlanta. Georgia Gov. Nathan Deal said early Wednesday that the National Guard was sending military Humvees onto Atlanta's snarled freeway system by Q8India, on Flickr


Egad.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The main problem was the huge amount of trucks being stuck. A car can turn around, a truck cannot. You usually see one truck getting stuck, another one bypassing it on the next lane, also getting stuck, and this repeats itself until all lanes are blocked and traffic is going nowhere. Some freeways were blocked for nearly 30 hours.


----------



## Jschmuck

> The main problem was the huge amount of trucks being stuck. A car can turn around, a truck cannot. You usually see one truck getting stuck, another one bypassing it on the next lane, also getting stuck, and this repeats itself until all lanes are blocked and traffic is going nowhere. Some freeways were blocked for nearly 30 hours


And I will clarify the truck getting stuck point as I drive one for work; A couple times I have been hauling heavy loads to the max (75,000-80,000 lb) loads going up an icy hill between Madison and Janesville, WI in the right lane, 5 degreesF, at dawn and the drive axles started losing traction. I and everyone else barely made it over the hill between 5 and 15mph. 

More recently in Indiana after winter storm ION I had an EMPTY trailer driving on completely iced I-69 northeast of Indianapolis I was approaching a simple, basic overpass(I-69 going over a secondary road) and began losing traction. I got slowed down to 5mph and was only able to idle off in that speed as any speed higher would have been to fast and would have spun the tires. Now, Atlanta is very hilly, and stuck trucks means dead stopped in the lane (no accident/incident/damage vehicle) just stopped. (there probably were accidents in many spots that stopped traffic AS WELL).

Oh and if/when I would try to accelerate on ice, the vehicle would start to jackknife.


----------



## Kanadzie

Penn's Woods said:


> 1) I've heard (from the guy who manages the building I work in) that salt is ineffective if it's too cold (below 20F, about -7C). It was that cold in Atlanta that day.


It works colder, I would say, about -20 *C to have real issues on the road, but of course, you need to lay enough salt down and with a mix of the calcium type instead of sodium. At those -20 *C temperatures it is usually nice and sunny but cars crashing all over the place :nuts:

Next to my office there is a parclo interchange where the minor road goes under the freeway. I always get stuck at the light to cross as the slope is too steep, spin spin spin :lol:


----------



## Penn's Woods

Kanadzie said:


> It works colder, I would say, about -20 *C to have real issues on the road, but of course, you need to lay enough salt down and with a mix of the calcium type instead of sodium. At those -20 *C temperatures it is usually nice and sunny but cars crashing all over the place :nuts:
> 
> Next to my office there is a parclo interchange where the minor road goes under the freeway. I always get stuck at the light to cross as the slope is too steep, spin spin spin :lol:


Ah. My office manager was talking about the sidewalks.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-635 LBJ Express, Dallas, TX*

January 2014 highlights video. It's rather impressive what they are doing there.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-70 New Mississippi Bridge, St. Louis*

Just a couple of days from opening! It will open Sunday.


MRB_5797 by missriverbridge_photos, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-95 George Washington Bridge*

- deleted


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-90, Seattle*

The I-5/I-90 interchange in Seattle, looking at Qwest Field and Safeco Field.

Untitled by phoric, on Flickr


----------



## nadgobxe

Downtown Chicago I90/94 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpQDZsfpo7E


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-70 Stan Musial Veterans Memorial Bridge*

The Stan Musial Veterans Memorial Bridge opens to traffic today in St. Louis

This is westbound signage.

IMG_3572 by ianlayton, on Flickr

Old I-70 into downtown. This should be renumbered to I-44.

IMG_3567 by ianlayton, on Flickr

The full name. Well the actual full name would be Stanisław Franciszek Musiał Veterans Memorial Bridge. :lol:

IMG_3580 by ianlayton, on Flickr

The bridge itself. It was originally planned as an 8-lane facility but later scaled back to 4 lanes due to cost. I doubt if it needs more than 4 lanes for the time being.

IMG_3575 by ianlayton, on Flickr


----------



## bogdymol

ChrisZwolle said:


> *February 9, 2014*
> 
> The Stan Musial Veterans Memorial Bridge in St. Louis opens to traffic today. It includes a 3 mile new alignment of Interstate 70 in Missouri and Illinois. It also changes the Interstate numbering around downtown St. Louis. *The new bridge* cost $ 229 million and *is ahead of schedule and on budget*. The entire project cost is $ 700 million.


You don't hear that too often related to expensive infrastructure projects.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Stan Span

D5771_CM_2-1609 by MoDOT Photos, on Flickr


----------



## Penn's Woods

"Stan Span"? Is that what they're calling it?

By the way - highway-related pet peeve of the moment: in this ongoing political scandal involving the closing of access lanes from the local streets of Fort Lee, N.J., to the George Washington Bridge media types and politicians keep referring to the bridge being shut down. hno: Saying things like "how could [the Governor] not have noticed the busiest bridge in the world being shut down?!"


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> Old I-70 into downtown. This should be renumbered to I-44.


Which creates a 44/55 multiplex.
Although they could have called the cut-off piece of old 70 something more interesting like I-870....


----------



## sotonsi

Well, oddly for them, IL didn't want to bring I-44 into their state (likewise I-43, maybe my assumption that they want as many 2dis as possible comes from their wanting I-66, and their happily going along with I-43), so MO might as well use it to mop up I-70's leftovers. (it will become I-44 - that's all been approved).

Does have the odd situation that eastbound I-44 becomes westbound I-70, with no access to eastbound I-70.

Looking on OSM, the bridge is done and open, but the links aren't quite done, especially on the Illinois side.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Well, if Illinois did bring I-44 in, where would it go? The old 55/64/70 bridge will still have two Interstate numbers and 70 still passes through the East St. Louis area; I can't think of a corridor running northeast or east from there that needs an Interstate.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-44 east seamlessly becomes I-70 west. How often does that occur? Also, how many two-digit same number concurrencies are there?


----------



## Penn's Woods

"Two-digit same number concurrencies" meaning, say 66 and 99 or 11 and 33?

Can't think of any.

The other question, I'll need to think about a bit. (If you count three-digit routes, it may happen not far from there, where 55, 255 and 270 meet south of Saint Louis. Does 255 south become 270 north, and vice-versa, or is that bit of 255 marked as east/west?)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-95 Express Lanes, Northern Virginia*


IMG_7724 by VaDOT, on Flickr


IMG_7742 by VaDOT, on Flickr


IMG_7876 by VaDOT, on Flickr


----------



## Airman Kris™

fredcalif said:


> It is time for Las VEgas and Phoenix to be connected by a nice Freeway.
> this are the 2 largest cities not connected by interstate system.
> 
> it is still a long way before this happen. maybe by 2020 or 2025
> 
> we really need more investment in this country, no wonder we are falling fast on the rankings when it comes to infrastructure.


With the restricted wilderness areas southeast of Vegas, there is no way to get that direct route between LV and Phoenix


----------



## Kanadzie

But it isn't a lot of space... I mean, surely could just build a second carriageway on hwy 93 and a couple overpasses...


----------



## Professor L Gee

^^ According to Google Maps, 93 is already a divided expressway from Las Vegas to Kingman.

From Kingman to Metro Phoenix it's undivided... but there's also almost literally nothing there.


----------



## Airman Kris™

Kanadzie said:


> But it isn't a lot of space... I mean, surely could just build a second carriageway on hwy 93 and a couple overpasses...


It is indeed divided; But it has relatively low traffic and for the government to "promote" it to a national interstate highway would face uproar for environmental reasons. Secondly, there is nil in that area, population wise, for emergencies such as wrecks, so it would take rescue crews too much time to respond to emergencies. That in turn would cost money to construct multiple rest areas, emergency phone post,etc.

Your best bet would be to construct the interstate starting from PHX-Bullhead City-Boulder City. From there have it connect with the 515. I would say stretch it to the 15 but we all know the added headache it would add to that mess. Imagine the traffic from LAX and Pheonix coming from that one stretch of the 15?:lol:


----------



## Natomasken

I drove 93 from Las Vegas to Phoenix last year and I'd say over half of the section between I-40 and Phoenix has already been upgraded to 4-lane divided (but not freeway). Outside of Phoenix, I'd agree that 4-lane divided is perfectly adequate along this route, as there are no towns to speak of north of Wickenburg. 

There is an organization that's promoting upgrading this route to Interstate 11:

www.interstate11.org

This would be part of the proposed Canamex Corridor, stretching from Edmonton, AB to Mexico City. Within the US, the I-11 segment is the only section that's not already part of the Interstate system. It uses I-15 from Las Vegas to Canada, and I-10 and I-19 from Phoenix to Mexico.

www.canamex.org

Just as an aside, it drives me crazy that the route is designated US 93 all the way to Wickenburg, but then picks up the US 60 designation from there to Phoenix. US 60 west of Phoenix has been an irrelevant route since I-10 was built, not significant enough to justify a US route designation. IMO, it should be dropped and the current 60 route between central Phoenix and Wickenburg ought to be redesignated as an extension of US 93 for continuity, as this important route deserves a single route number.


----------



## ttownfeen

Not every major highway needs to be an interstate. If Arizona wants a high-speed vehicular route between PHX and LAS, they can upgrade it to freeway standard themselves.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Well, Las Vegas and Phoenix are much larger cities than, say, Fort Smith and Texarkana. And much larger than they were when the Interstate network was being planned.

But how about an Interstate from Las Vegas southeast to I-40 - call it I-42, say - so the "normal" route from Las Vegas to Phoenix would become 42, 40, 17. Would that make sense?


----------



## diablo234

Penn's Woods said:


> Well, Las Vegas and Phoenix are much larger cities than, say, Fort Smith and Texarkana. And much larger than they were when the Interstate network was being planned.
> 
> But how about an Interstate from Las Vegas southeast to I-40 - call it I-42, say - so the "normal" route from Las Vegas to Phoenix would become 42, 40, 17. Would that make sense?


The stretch between Fort Smith and Texarkana is supposed to be part of a larger highway connecting New Orleans to Kansas City so you can't really compare the two just on that merit.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Well, the last example that some on this thread thought was a bit much was I-14, but I couldn't remember where that goes, or will go.... (Killeen to, to, um, some place else) So I used that arguably bad example instead. But, okay, I think a Las Vegas-to-Phoenix corridor, or at least the portion north of I-40, is at least as reasonable a place for an Interstate as that Killeen-to-wherever corridor. Or Interstate 2.


----------



## Natomasken

Penn's Woods said:


> But how about an Interstate from Las Vegas southeast to I-40 - call it I-42, say - so the "normal" route from Las Vegas to Phoenix would become 42, 40, 17. Would that make sense?


I wouldn't think so. The US 93/US 60 route is much shorter, per Google maps, 294 miles vs. 398 via I-40/I-17. Although over 100 miles longer, the driving time is only about an hour longer, due to higher average speeds on the interstates. But if 93 were upgraded to interstate standards, the time difference would increase. The section of the route along US 60/Grand Ave. through the western Phoenix suburbs can be very slow (you're better off taking AZ-101 south to I-10).


----------



## rantanamo

93 is where it is because of the mountain ranges. If a SE route directly to Phoenix were built it would be a huge undertaking and engineering feat. 93 being updated would probably be the best bet cost-wise


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The population of the United States has doubled since the original Interstate Highway plans were made in the mid-1950s. It's rather notable that no significant revision of the plan has been made. Most later Interstate projects were state-pushed projects, instead of a national reassessment of the Interstate Highway system.

I can think of a few corridors that would make sense as a federal funded Interstate Highway in the character of the original 1956 plan, for example;

* Phoenix - Las Vegas
* Houston - Austin
* Bakersfield - Sacramento (CA-99)
* New Orleans - Kansas City
* Meridian - Columbus - Macon
* Dallas - Tulsa - Kansas City
* San Diego - Phoenix (I-8/10 connector)
* Raleigh - Norfolk
* Norfolk - Philadelphia
* Charlotte - Wilmington
* Houston - Brownsville
* Chicago - Kansas City
* Indianapolis - Grand Rapids

Most of these places are located in the south and southwest, where a large proportion of growth took place since 1960.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^I don't agree with all of those (for what it's worth), but not a bad plan.


----------



## Natomasken

I would add to Chris' list conversion of CA-58 between I-5 and Barstow to an extension of I-40. This route carries a lot of traffic between the SF Bay Area/Northern California and Las Vegas, and provides a useful bypass of Los Angeles congestion for those going between Arizona/points east and Northern California/points north. Some of the route has been upgraded to interstate standards already (between Barstow and Mojave), some is substandard freeway (around Tehachapi), but much remains 2-lane. To make the LA bypass complete, I'd like to see either US 395 between I-15 and CA-58 (I-40) or CA-138 between CA-14 and I-15 upgraded to freeway standard as well.


----------



## Airman Kris™

ChrisZwolle said:


> The population of the United States has doubled since the original Interstate Highway plans were made in the mid-1950s. It's rather notable that no significant revision of the plan has been made. Most later Interstate projects were state-pushed projects, instead of a national reassessment of the Interstate Highway system.
> 
> I can think of a few corridors that would make sense as a federal funded Interstate Highway in the character of the original 1956 plan, for example;
> 
> * Phoenix - Las Vegas
> * Houston - Austin
> * Bakersfield - Sacramento (CA-99)
> * New Orleans - Kansas City
> * Meridian - Columbus - Macon
> * Dallas - Tulsa - Kansas City
> * San Diego - Phoenix (I-8/10 connector)
> * Raleigh - Norfolk
> * Norfolk - Philadelphia
> * Charlotte - Wilmington
> * Houston - Brownsville
> * Chicago - Kansas City
> * Indianapolis - Grand Rapids
> 
> Most of these places are located in the south and southwest, where a large proportion of growth took place since 1960.



Will like to add to that and to one of your suggested routes:
* Hattiesburg - Meridian - Columbus - Macon

Then aswell... * Canton - Pittsburgh 

All of yours are great ideas Chris!


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^As far as the Mississippi-to-Macon corridor is concerned: 20/59 already runs basically east-west west of Tuscaloosa; 85 runs east-west for a bit east of Montgomery... I think something forking off of 85 where it starts to turn north then going over to Columbus would suffice. If you're trying to get from Jackson to Montgomery, you can use 20 to 459 to 65.

I don't see why Canton to Pittsburgh needs to be an Interstate, or why we need interstates from Kansas City to both Joplin (or wherever 49 crosses 44) and Tulsa.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Dallas/Tulsa - Kansas City issue is interesting. Originally, there was only the Kansas Turnpike which runs west and then southwest to Wichita before turning south, which is quite a detour compared to the US 169 to Tulsa. 

Later, I-35 was constructed as a free alternate route to the Kansas Turnpike between Emporia and Kansas City. I always found this a bit weird considering it is not much shorter and the only new town to be served was Ottawa.

Over the years, five routes were developed into partial freeways south(west) of Kansas City, the Kansas Turnpike, I-35, US 169, US 69 and US 71. US 71 eventually gained prominence and was rebuilt into a freeway. On the other side of the state line, US 69 was partially turned into a freeway. Parts of US 169 (the most direct route from Kansas City to Tulsa) have also been turned into a freeway, but large sections are still non-freeway.

I think it would've made more sense to turn US 169 into an Interstate than I-35 east of Emporia. Nowadays Tulsa is quite a large urban area (1 million).


----------



## sotonsi

ChrisZwolle said:


> * Phoenix - Las Vegas
> * Houston - Austin
> * Bakersfield - Sacramento (CA-99)
> * New Orleans - Kansas City
> * Meridian - Columbus - Macon
> * Dallas - Tulsa - Kansas City
> * San Diego - Phoenix (I-8/10 connector)
> * Raleigh - Norfolk
> * Norfolk - Philadelphia
> * Charlotte - Wilmington
> * Houston - Brownsville
> * Chicago - Kansas City
> * Indianapolis - Grand Rapids


On a map, with subsequent proposals with light gray lines.


----------



## Airman Kris™

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^As far as the Mississippi-to-Macon corridor is concerned: 20/59 already runs basically east-west west of Tuscaloosa; 85 runs east-west for a bit east of Montgomery... I think something forking off of 85 where it starts to turn north then going over to Columbus would suffice. If you're trying to get from Jackson to Montgomery, you can use 20 to 459 to 65.
> 
> I don't see why Canton to Pittsburgh needs to be an Interstate, or why we need interstates from Kansas City to both Joplin (or wherever 49 crosses 44) and Tulsa.


That would suffice I suppose, traffic is not heavy enough to bother at the moment in many of those areas now that I think about it.

As for the Canton to Pitt, I-77 goes from Cleveland-Akron-Canton with all the suburbs between making a huge macro-metropolitan area. Having the Canton to Pitt route would connect all these metros together. Seems reasonable to me. Have 77 make that southeast turn and there you go. Let's not forget the booming shale-drilling industry in that area right now; Its forcing towns such as Carrollton,Ohio to have to deal with twice as long commutes and double the traffic. Expect that corridor to soar in growth in the next 10 years.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^There are already two Interstate corridors (80-then-76 from Cleveland, just-plain-76 from Akron) connecting the Cleveland/Akron/Canton area to Pittsburgh, so you're really talking about another one just for Canton/Pittsburgh traffic. Upgrading US 30 ought to be enough.


----------



## myosh_tino

sonysnob said:


> ^ I don't know if that logic always holds true. The new HOV lane on the 60/215 south of Riverside is open access and appears to operate on a 24/7 basis.


It used to. Over the past couple of years, there's been a push in certain areas of southern California to convert limited access HOV lanes into open access HOV lanes with the idea of giving drivers more flexibility on entering and exiting.

Northern California has always had open access HOV lanes because of what Natomasken said. The HOV lanes here operate only during commute hours (generally 6-9am and 3-7pm) and are general purpose lanes all other times. With that said, things are changing in northern California. There are numerous plans to convert HOV lanes into HOT or Express Lanes. When that conversion happens (it's already been done on southbound I-680 from Route 84 to Route 237), the lane will be converted to limited access.


----------



## Airman Kris™

FM 2258 said:


> I'm curious on the status of Interstate 22.




Most of it is coming together in the northern MS/Memphis area . I would say another 10 years for full completion sadly.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The I-22/65 interchange in Birmingham, Alabama is also delayed. Apparently the contractor made surveying errors and misaligned some of the beams for a bridge.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-35E, Dallas, TX*

The I-35E / Spur 366 interchange in Downtown Dallas


LightTrailsFromReunionTower by Rico Blair, on Flickr

And the adjacent Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge.


Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge From Reunion Tower by Rico Blair, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-95 Express Lanes, Northern Virginia*

Fresh aerial photos by VDOT.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-595, Southern Florida*

The toll reversible express lanes open to traffic today in South Florida. A three-lane reversible toll facility has been built in the median of Interstate 595 from I-75 at Weston to I-95 at Fort Lauderdale.


----------



## Tom 958

Wow, I had never heard of the I-595 project. With the geography of that part of Florida, I'm surprised that the directional split is severe enough to make a reversible roadway viable.


----------



## Tom 958

Double post! :banana:

I uploaded some photos (mostly) of new Euro-style arrow per lane signage in Atlanta-- might as well post them here.

Here are two nice ones, though the yellow LEFT placard on the exit tab is rather redundant for this type of sign:




















Oooooh, pretty! This is on the ramp from 75 SB to 85 NB, with the 75 HOV lane on the left. Just visible ahead (maybe) is a 25mph curve that drivers regularly overshoot. I suppose the epic paint job is meant to slow drivers down, but to me it says, "Mr Sulu, engage warp drive!"










In contrast to the two previous APL signs I showed you, there's this, on 85 SB approaching the new 400 ramps now under construction. Does it blow, or what? For reasons I can't fathom, Georgia is replacing its signage (with its weird compressed FHWA font), not with Clearview, but with old skool signage with really big letters. Except here, they used little bitty letters instead and crammed them together to make enough room to... put the I-85 field off center to the right! WTF? :doh: 

Apparently they haven't decided what to do with the arrow under GA 13. If it were up to me, I'd sign it as a lane drop and let the short recovery lane beyond be a pleasant surprise, but a case could be made for signing it as optional, which... that's probably why the layout is the way it is. Maybe they changed their minds after the sign contractor had arranged a crane to erect the sign. Either way, though, they should've decided before the sign was erected, don't you think? :wallbash:

Behind you can see the old signage, and the sign bridge that spans the entire twelve lane roadway. It carries two signs for the NB side-- will they keep it? Time will tell, I guess. Oh: when the wind blew right, I could see that the 400 field has control cities of Buckhead/Cumming. A bit wordy for this location-- NORTH 400 would've sufficed, IMO.











A bit further south, new old skool signage. In the contractor's yard I saw another APL sign for 85--perhaps it'll go here:










Finally, a crappy shot of the 85-400 interchange. At least it shows the start of what I called the recovery lane above. It had been a fourth lane for 85 SB, but about a year ago it was striped away to provide one extra lane for the two entering lanes of 400 to dump into. You can also (barely) see the traditional two-sign overhead at the ramp split (GA 13 SB to the left, GA 400 NB to the right).


----------



## Kanadzie

Did they write "this is a lane" there on the lane :lol:


----------



## keokiracer

LANE ENDS probably.


----------



## Tom 958

keokiracer said:


> LANE ENDS probably.


Indeed. The two lanes of GA 400 southbound merge into I-85 just south of where that photo was taken, and from the opening of 400 in 1993 until about a year ago there was no added lane for them. That lane was striped away to make the 400 merge flow better.

http://goo.gl/maps/eTJ9g


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

ChrisZwolle said:


> The toll reversible express lanes open to traffic today in South Florida. A three-lane reversible toll facility has been built in the median of Interstate 595 from I-75 at Weston to I-95 at Fort Lauderdale.


What is a reversible express lane?


----------



## keokiracer

^^ A reversible lane with limited on- and off ramps. In this case tolled.


----------



## sponge_bob

Yuri S Andrade said:


> What is a reversible express lane?


Reversible is where you have an EG 8 ( or 10 or 12) lane road into a big town and you maybe have 6 lanes in and 2 lanes out in the morning and 6 lanes out and 2 lanes in in the evening. You use traffic lights to indicate the current direction of travel so you have a regular bank of 8 lights and they are either green or red. 

Having 4 lanes each way all the time means jams at peak times in one direction and empty road the other way ...in that example.

They have been used since the 1970s in the UK and probably as long in the US.


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

^^
Thank you guys.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Reversible lanes have become less popular. They are more expensive to operate and traffic flows became more diverse over the last 3 decades. While there used to be a pronounced morning rush inbound and evening rush outbound, traffic flows have become more diffuse, with more traffic outside the traditional rush hours, more traffic against the traditional peak direction, etc.

Reversible lanes may still be a good options on radial routes with a strong peak direction. But for example in Dallas about 85% of traffic on I-35E towards downtown has no destination or origin in it, they just bypass it. So what is a traditional inbound flow on one side of the center becomes an untraditional outbound flow during the same rush hour. Beltways are another example, where traffic is often heavy in both directions. That is why you rarely see reversible lanes on beltways.


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

The same in São Paulo. Aside the huge East to Downtown/West influx, traffic goes in every direction.

About the reversible operation, they usually do it on the wekends, at the Imigrantes/Anchieta highway complex, linking São Paulo to the beaches.


----------



## xzmattzx

The last stretch of the future I-99 between Williamsport and Corning is now open. The northbound lanes near the Town of Lindley in New York are now being used.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That segment opened on Oktober 8, 2013.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

https://twitter.com/AARoads/status/451439664084185089/photo/1


----------



## Natomasken

ChrisZwolle said:


> https://twitter.com/AARoads/status/451439664084185089/photo/1


They didn't really put an "I" in front of 595, did they?


----------



## Jim856796

An Interstate Highway sign that says "Interstate I-595"? Redundant.:lol:hno:


----------



## CNGL

That I-I-595 sign must be from the Department of Redundancy Department they have on AARoads :lol:.


----------



## sotonsi

CNGL said:


> That I-I-595 sign must be from the Department of Redundancy Department they have on AARoads :lol:.


I thought Alanland Oblast-named all its shields?


----------



## xzmattzx

ChrisZwolle said:


> That segment opened on Oktober 8, 2013.


It was my first time on it. I think I'm the only person on SSC that really travels on that highway, so I had been posting pictures of the updates. The southbound lanes opened last summer, but you probably know the exact day.

I'll enjoy the time savings, but will miss the little bit of scenery along the route.


----------



## myosh_tino

sotonsi said:


> I thought Alanland Oblast-named all its shields?


Hmmm... Alanland invades and _doesn't invade_ Skyscraper City... not good! :bash:


----------



## CNGL

myosh_tino said:


> Hmmm... Alanland invades and doesn't invade Skyscraper City... not good! :bash:


FTFY.

To those who don't know it, Alanland is a recurring meme in the AARoads forum, much like Póvoa de Varzim or the Struma motorway here, and like those it was coined by a troll. In that country anything is and isn't at the same time. Goats appear to dominate (and to be absent from) the country. A really weird thing, anyway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interesting data on I-345. Some groups have proposed tearing down I-345 as it would have little impact on traffic. Data shows why this is a bad idea.

First; the hypothetical I-345 removal is not your average stub ramp removal like the Embarcadero in San Francisco or the Park Freeway in Milwaukee. The traffic volume is very high, over 200,000 vehicles per day. You cannot just dump that kind of traffic on surface streets unless you want to create a monster traffic corridor much wider than the current freeway (example: Avenida 9 de Julio in Buenos Aires, or those Moscow inner city ring roads). 

Second; claiming that tearing down 345 would have no significant impact on travel times reveals how little people know about transportation. Most of these groups view road traffic like transit; with a strong focus on to-and-from CBD patterns. However, modern day road traffic is not like that.

This graph shows that actually almost no traffic on I-345 has an origin or destination in the Dallas CBD (within the freeway loop), so it's not just a bunch of motorists who will have to exit a mile earlier than today.









Not to mention that tearing down I-345 would not only create extreme problems on the existing corridor (such as the Gardiner proposal in Toronto), it would also create a large flow of traffic on alternate freeways like I-30, 35E and Spur 366. These are all freeways already operating at a poor level of service. Dumping another 100,000 or so vehicles on it will prove to be disastrous. 

In reality, proposals to tear down I-345 are so unrealistic they should not be taken serious. I don't think anyone at TxDOT or even the Dallas city council would take it serious, but the media apparently does.


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## Innsertnamehere

Now I admit I am generally a fan of interurban and suburban highways, I am absolutely NOT a fan of urban ones. Urban Freeways destroyed America's cities(And even Toronto for several decades, the last of the parking lots are only now starting to disappear 50 years after the construction of the Gardiner). Just thought I would get that out there as a bit of a preface haha.

I can see a bit of an issue with tearing down the entire I-345 absolutely, especially considering the next ring road is generally ~15km away. What I don't see a major problem with is ripping down at least one section. Why must it completely surround downtown on all 4 sides? surrounding it on 3 of the 4 sides wouldn't cause too much traffic havoc but would certianly reconnect downtown to at least some of the surrounding neighbourhoods. You could deck over the highway between highway 75 and 77 and then rip down the portion between 75 and I-35 for example. That would completely open up Downtown Dallas from its isolated condition that it is currently in without providing a complete disaster in terms of traffic.


As for the Gardiner, that is a completely different Highway the vast majority of the traffic using that ends downtown and has viable transit options that the drivers can switch to, especially in the coming years as the big expansions in commuter rail start to open. Unlike Dallas, which as far as I know doesn't have relatively that many jobs downtown and doesn't even have commuter rail. (only 28% of people commuting into Toronto drive, less than 1% use the part of the Gardiner proposed to be torn down, and that 1% accounts for 80% of the traffic on that road) Its not like that traffic will have nowhere to go, there will be a large urban boulevard put in its place and there will be plenty of transit options to replace 80% of those trips. Never mind the fact that it is extremely overbuilt currently anyway, a 8 lane highway with a single 4 lane highway feeding into it on ones side and 6 lane highway leading out from it on the other.

Dallas's problems lie in the fact that they built their suburban highway network based on a hub around downtown, completely destroying their downtown in the process. Toronto's suburban traffic is based on the 401, a highway 10km north of the city. 

Dallas is in a tough situation, they now realize the folly of building the I-345 so close to downtown, but I agree that there is no easy solution and whatever they come up with will be painful, especially how car reliant the entire built form of the city is.

and as always, you have to remember factors such as induced demand.


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## sonysnob

CNGL said:


> FTFY.
> 
> To those who don't know it, Alanland is a recurring meme in the AARoads forum, much like Póvoa de Varzim or the Struma motorway here, and like those it was coined by a troll. In that country anything is and isn't at the same time. Goats appear to dominate (and to be absent from) the country. A really weird thing, anyway.


Alanland is one of those things that should stay on AAroads if you ask me... I always found it kind of dumb.


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## sonysnob

Innsertnamehere said:


> Now I admit I am generally a fan of interurban and suburban highways, I am absolutely NOT a fan of urban ones. Urban Freeways destroyed America's cities(And even Toronto for several decades, the last of the parking lots are only now starting to disappear 50 years after the construction of the Gardiner). Just thought I would get that out there as a bit of a preface haha.
> 
> I can see a bit of an issue with tearing down the entire I-345 absolutely, especially considering the next ring road is generally ~15km away. What I don't see a major problem with is ripping down at least one section. Why must it completely surround downtown on all 4 sides? surrounding it on 3 of the 4 sides wouldn't cause too much traffic havoc but would certianly reconnect downtown to at least some of the surrounding neighbourhoods. You could deck over the highway between highway 75 and 77 and then rip down the portion between 75 and I-35 for example. That would completely open up Downtown Dallas from its isolated condition that it is currently in without providing a complete disaster in terms of traffic.
> 
> 
> As for the Gardiner, that is a completely different Highway the vast majority of the traffic using that ends downtown and has viable transit options that the drivers can switch to, especially in the coming years as the big expansions in commuter rail start to open. Unlike Dallas, which as far as I know doesn't have relatively that many jobs downtown and doesn't even have commuter rail. (only 28% of people commuting into Toronto drive, less than 1% use the part of the Gardiner proposed to be torn down, and that 1% accounts for 80% of the traffic on that road) Its not like that traffic will have nowhere to go, there will be a large urban boulevard put in its place and there will be plenty of transit options to replace 80% of those trips. Never mind the fact that it is extremely overbuilt currently anyway, a 8 lane highway with a single 4 lane highway feeding into it on ones side and 6 lane highway leading out from it on the other.
> 
> Dallas's problems lie in the fact that they built their suburban highway network based on a hub around downtown, completely destroying their downtown in the process. Toronto's suburban traffic is based on the 401, a highway 10km north of the city.
> 
> Dallas is in a tough situation, they now realize the folly of building the I-345 so close to downtown, but I agree that there is no easy solution and whatever they come up with will be painful, especially how car reliant the entire built form of the city is.
> 
> and as always, you have to remember factors such as induced demand.


I am not in the camp that doesn't believe interurban highways destroyed US cities. For several decades there was a concerted effort by government agencies to redevelop existing US cities as less dense spaces, building urban highways may have been a factor in that effort, but it wasn't the be all and end all. Particularly in the US, there are also some pretty strong social reasons why people left the city, including crime rates and locally funded school zones. Blaming all of this on highway construction is convenient, but is a simplistic approach to understand why urban areas became blighted.

Also, the idea of induced demand as a concept is used with way too much prevalence by anti-highway folks. I don't disagree with the concept, but it fails to address the concept of latent demand, and that for almost all transportation service other than demand into a central business district, the displaced highway users are typically just displaced to less efficient roadways from the highway network.

Dallas does have a small commuter rail network. In addition to DART, the Trinity Railway Express carries passengers between Downtown Dallas and Downtown Fort Worth. From what I understand (which I grant isn't that much) it hasn't been that successful.


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## Innsertnamehere

induced demand usually only becomes an issue if you have a large transit system paralleling the road system as trips are leached from that. Situations like Dallas are unlikely to have too much of induced demand (beyond some off peak trips moving to peak trips when new capacity is added and vice versa when it is removed) as almost 100% of movement is by car. Situations like the Gardiner are heavily based off of induced demand as most of those trips can easily be accommodated by transit.

Urban freeways were obviously only part of a major issue, but they certainly caused major damage. White flight may have still occurred, but not likely on the scale that was seen as the flight would have been more limited to be closer to the central city to account for the lack of easy highway access. It was an enabler, at least. Urban highways also create parking demand, and with zoning laws in the 1960's that encouraged land owners to tear down existing structures and to replace them with parking lots that destroyed so many cities its not really funny. Entire cities got almost completely destroyed to fit that parking in. Toronto for example, which wasn't nearly as badly hit as most US cities (and has recovered extremely well since) lost probably close to 90% of its building stock in the oldest neighbourhood in the city. (a large chunk of which was actually done by the government)


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## sonysnob

Innsertnamehere said:


> induced demand usually only becomes an issue if you have a large transit system paralleling the road system as trips are leached from that. Situations like Dallas are unlikely to have too much of induced demand (beyond some off peak trips moving to peak trips when new capacity is added and vice versa when it is removed) as almost 100% of movement is by car. Situations like the Gardiner are heavily based off of induced demand as most of those trips can easily be accommodated by transit.


But just because a trip can be accommodated by transit, doesn't mean that it always should. I am not in the camp where I think people should be vilified because they want to drive to their destination. I realize that that camp does exist, but as is evidenced by the congestion that exists on both the DVP and the Gardiner (as well as a lot of other Toronto area freeways) transit isn't the be all and end all for a lot of people, even if their trip could theoretically be accommodated by it.


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## Kanadzie

Is there really any "spare" capacity on the Lakeshore GO line? It seems a worse congestion hell than the QEW-Gardiner, maybe the induced demand is working backwards...


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## Innsertnamehere

we are going a little off topic here I think, mods can feel free to move the convo to the Canada thread.

A lot of those trips take the highway as it is more convenient today, many of them could easily transfer with maybe 5 minutes in difference in terms of commuting times. highways will always be congested, they are seen as the "#1 choice" for transportation but have serious side affects that leave them less than desired (health effects from suburban lifestyles and pollution, sprawl, etc.) 

as for capacity, there is plenty of space. There are 2 or 3 GO lines that would take the load, as well as the TTC, which can manage it. As I said, even if 100% of those trips (which nowhere near that many will) converted to transit trips, you would be looking at 1% of trips into downtown being transferred to transit. In reality you are looking at maybe 0.3 percent conversion to transit, minuscule and probably roughly equal to a few more people on every GO train that is carrying 1,500 in the first place. you would be looking at an annual 2.5% transit growth rate (More for GO) to 2.7% instead for a single year.

also, most of the trips would transfer to either Stouffville GO, lakeshore east (which isn't nearly as busy as lakeshore west) and the TTC. By the looks of it the Gardiner is going to be rebuilt as a 4 lane elevated freeway hugging the rail corridor now anyway, providing a much less disruptive presence to the urban environment while maintaining the connection. (even at some absurd cost that would likely never pass a cost benefit ratio)

Dallas as I have said is in a different situation as the transportation network is so car focused compared to Toronto that there are no real realistic ways of eliminating those trips, especially considering the setup of the highway network.

anyways, move these last few posts please!


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## ChrisZwolle

Like most downtown areas in the U.S., the adjacent areas used to be industrial in character. I-345 (unsigned by the way) was routed across decayed industrial areas. As recent as 20 years ago there were almost no housing developments near it. 

A removal is not an option here. There's way too much traffic. Many European countries don't even have freeways with this kind of traffic volume, for example in the UK only one motorway reaches up to 200,000 vehicles per day. If you recalculate the amount of vehicles to the amount of passengers, this little stretch of I-345 moves more than twice as many people as the 85 mile light rail system in greater Dallas (DART).

A teardown is only possible if they would replace with an alternate route, for example a tunnel. But that would be expensive and the state or city will not be able to pay for it. Tolling could be an option but would create a diversion of traffic to other - already saturated - routes and would be highly unpopular, especially because 345 is mostly used by commuters from the poorer southern side of Dallas.


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## KIWIKAAS

I think it's worthy looking into it. 
It's shocking to see how hemmed in by freeways downtown Dallas is.
For the downtown area to become attractive for expansion and to increase it's residential share something has to give.
Demolishing the 75 would open up a whole new area that potentially could create a development corridor from downtown to the hospital precinct.


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## sponge_bob

Many Urban Interstates followed old railway alignments into already decaying areas of railway stockyards and low rent housing that were close to city centres, in other words the downtown went from cut off by railways to cut off by motorways and the area the alignment went through was crap 40 or 50 years ago anyway.

The US cities themselves had grown up along the railways in many cases. 

But to a European it is amazing to see how they punch right through cities in a straight line and fixing them to go around is no small task. The North South interstate through Denver is the one that sticks in my mind for some reason.


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## ChrisZwolle

Much of the housing developments east of I-345 were built on what was a rail yard until the 1990s. 

The Gardiner Expressway is an example of a "barrier" while there is a wide rail corridor next to it. Another example is St. Louis, where I-64 "cuts" through the city while there is a huge rail yard next to it, with partially elevated railroads.


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## KIWIKAAS

ChrisZwolle said:


> Much of the housing developments east of I-345 were built on what was a rail yard until the 1990s.


So demolishing the I345 would fit in well with the renewal trend going on in that area?


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## Jim856796

A 25-mile stretch of the Jane Addams Tollway (between the Elgin Toll Plaza and the Kennedy Expressway) is being widened with one additonal lane in each direction, and because of this, one of the seven Illinois Tollway "Oasis"es is being removed. The "oasis", just north of the O'Hare Airport, is unlikely to be replaced because of the Elgin-O'Hare Western Access Project, and officials stated that any relocation/rebuilding of the facility would be considered prohibitively expensive. Closure and removal of the oasis is to take place from April to June of 2014.

This news was first reported in September of 2013.


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## Nexis

Verrazano Narrows Bridge over New York Harbor 

105 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr
Lower Manhattan & Hoboken / Downtown Jersey City by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

Jim856796 said:


> A 25-mile stretch of the Jane Addams Tollway (between the Elgin Toll Plaza and the Kennedy Expressway) is being widened with one additonal lane in each direction, and because of this, one of the seven Illinois Tollway "Oasis"es is being removed. The "oasis", just north of the O'Hare Airport, is unlikely to be replaced because of the Elgin-O'Hare Western Access Project, and officials stated that any relocation/rebuilding of the facility would be considered prohibitively expensive. Closure and removal of the oasis is to take place from April to June of 2014.


To be sure, this is what the "oasis" looks like 










You'd expect an "oasis" in places like Arizona or Utah, not Illinois


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## Suburbanist

Do they have any plans to widen the Eisenhower Tunnels on I-70, and the highway around there?

It would be very expensive, but the Vail <=> Denver sector is getting more and more congested on weekends.


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## ChrisZwolle

There was an unsolicited proposal to build a reversible toll road next to I-70.


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## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> To be sure, this is what the "oasis" looks like
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'd expect an "oasis" in places like Arizona or Utah, not Illinois


As highway service areas go, the oases aren't bad, actually.


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## Jschmuck

> As highway service areas go, the oases aren't bad, actually


except for truck parking...


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## Professor L Gee

Jschmuck said:


> except for truck parking...


I would think that a truck that would need to stop at a rest area -- likely going past Chicago -- would actually avoid most of Chicagoland on their journey. Hence no truck parking.


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## Penn's Woods

^^Actually, the one time I was on 80/294 - the southernmost segment of the Tristate - it seemed like every truck in the country was on that segment too at the same time. And there is an Oasis there. (Is it the Lincoln?)


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## JimInJersey

*Norther Delaware/Eastern Maryland*

We did a quick weekender to over near Frederick, MD. Took the Delaware Memorial Bridge (I-295 South), to I-95 South, to I-695 West to I-70 West. Still a fair amount of construction going on at the I-95/I-695 interchanges near White Marsh, but didn't encounter any real slowdowns, even on a Friday PM.

Roadways are decent, in fact the worst stretch of the whole 110-mile trip was US 49 in my own Salem county, NJ.

Here's the merge of I-295 to I-95SB:

I-295 to I-95SB merge by Jimbo in Jersey, on Flickr

Volume backup at the Delaware Toll Booths, I-95 SB:

Approaching DE I-95 Toll booths by Jimbo in Jersey, on Flickr

Crossing the Susquehanna River, I-95 Southbound at Havre de Grace.

Over the Susquehanna, I-95SB' by Jimbo in Jersey, on Flickr

I-695 , into the setting sun

I-695 WB, Howard County Maryland by Jimbo in Jersey, on Flickr

Ramp to I-70 WB towards Frederick, and ultimately, Utah. We saw the sign with mileages to Denver and Cove Fort, but could not get the camera moved in time...

I-695 to I-70 WB ramp by Jimbo in Jersey, on Flickr

Got slightly better shots on Sunday evening coming home, less sun glare.
Here's the split off I-70 to I-695:

I-695, Maryland by Jimbo in Jersey, on Flickr

I-695 splitting to join I-95 NB towards NYC, or SB towards Baltimore.

I-695 split approaching I-95 NB by Jimbo in Jersey, on Flickr

The Big Swoop, I-695 merging with I-95 NB

I-695 merging to I-95NB by Jimbo in Jersey, on Flickr

The Susquehanna River again - watch those crosswinds!

Crossing the Susquehanna, NB I-95 by Jimbo in Jersey, on Flickr

Volume at Christiana/Newark DE, I-95 NB. 

Congestion near Christiana, NB I-95 by Jimbo in Jersey, on Flickr

Downslope on the Delaware Memorial Bridge eastbound, as flat New Jersey spreads out in the distance. 

EB Downslope of the Delaware Memorial Bridge by Jimbo in Jersey, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-278 Goethals Bridge, NY*

*Governor Cuomo Announces Start of Construction on $1.5 Billion Project to Replace the Goethals Bridge*

Governor Andrew M. Cuomo today announced the official commencement of construction on a $1.5 billion public-private partnership (PPP) to replace the Goethals Bridge with a new state-of-the-art cable-stayed bridge. The replacement bridge will connect Staten Island with Elizabeth, New Jersey and serve as a key thoroughfare for the transport of billions of dollars of goods and millions of travelers throughout the region. 

The new bridge will include additional wide travel lanes and 12-foot shoulders that will ease congestion and accommodate anticipated future traffic volumes. The upgraded bridge will also enhance the efficiency of the New York Container Terminal, while making accommodations for future growth at the site. The Container Terminal sits at the mouth of the bridge and serves as Staten Island’s largest private employer.

(...)

Construction is estimated to last approximately four years with initial service commencing in late 2016 and substantial completion of the bridge occurring in late 2017. To ensure the speedy delivery of the project, milestone payments to the developer will not begin until the bridge nears completion. The current Goethals Bridge will remain open until service begins on the new bridge.​
Full press release: https://www.governor.ny.gov/press/05072014-goethals-bridge

New design:


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## Penn's Woods

^^Cool.

I have relatives on Staten Island, so I have to use the Goethals on occasion; I don't like it.


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## Natomasken

ChrisZwolle said:


> New design:


It's nice to see some cable-stayed bridges in the US.


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## Natomasken

JimInJersey said:


> We did a quick weekender to over near Frederick, MD. Took the Delaware Memorial Bridge (I-295 South), to I-95 South, to I-695 West to I-70 West. Still a fair amount of construction going on at the I-95/I-695 interchanges near White Marsh, but didn't encounter any real slowdowns, even on a Friday PM.
> 
> Roadways are decent, in fact the worst stretch of the whole 110-mile trip was US 49 in my own Salem county, NJ.


I know this is a bit north of you, but do you know what's going on with constructing a connection between I-95 and the PA Turnpike? I read many years ago one would be built to eliminate the gap in I-95 but I haven't heard any more about it, and don't see any evidence of anything happening on Google maps.


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## Penn's Woods

^^There have been headlines about it in the last year or so, although I use 95 to get to North Jersey all the time - my mother lives far enough west that taking 95 to somewhere north of Trenton and then using state roads makes more sense than the Turnpike - and I can't say I've noticed anything actually going on.

New Jersey has been doing a lot of work - widening the Turnpike from the existing southern end of the split roadway down to the junction with the Pennsylvania Turnpike connector. (I do use the Turnpike occasionally for that North Jersey trip so I've seen it.)


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## Botev1912

I am going to Philadelphia next month and I will drive to Atlantic City and Baltimore. How do toll roads work? Can you buy a pass if you drive in 3-4 states (PA, NJ, DE, MD) or you have to pay every time?


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## Penn's Woods

E-ZPass.

It works on every toll road (as far as I know) from the Northeast to the Illinois Tollways. It's sold by the participating agencies - I got mine through the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission - and I think there's some expectation that you get it through the one whose jurisdiction you live in, and also some variation in rates. (Which I don't agree with, but no one asked me.) So I don't know what someone from Seattle is supposed to do....

You might contact a couple of the agencies that sell it and see if you can get one in Seattle. By the way, they can be bought on site...I bought mine because I was on the way home from Cleveland and realized I'd forgotten to get enough cash to pay the toll to cross Pennsylvania, but they're sold at Turnpike service areas, and good for the trip you're currently on. And I think I've seen E-ZPass sales booths at some bridges in the New York area. But now that I do have one I can't imagine why I waited so long...the time saved waiting at toll booths, for starters, is worth it.


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## Natomasken

Botev1912 said:


> I am going to Philadelphia next month and I will drive to Atlantic City and Baltimore. How do toll roads work? Can you buy a pass if you drive in 3-4 states (PA, NJ, DE, MD) or you have to pay every time?


Are you driving your own car or renting one in Philly? If renting, I expect your car will already have a pass installed. The rental car company will probably charge you an additional fee (I've seen $2.50/day) on top of whatever the toll charges are. Check with your rental car company.


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## Botev1912

renting. Usually you can pay the rental company and they give you a pass (Florida), but I don't know how it is when you cross different states.


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## Kanadzie

whenever I go there I just pay cash, not so much waiting anymore, but depends how long you are planning to stay there.


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## diablo234

Penn's Woods said:


> E-ZPass.
> 
> It works on every toll road (as far as I know) from the Northeast to the Illinois Tollways. It's sold by the participating agencies - I got mine through the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission - and I think there's some expectation that you get it through the one whose jurisdiction you live in, and also some variation in rates. (Which I don't agree with, but no one asked me.) So I don't know what someone from Seattle is supposed to do....
> 
> You might contact a couple of the agencies that sell it and see if you can get one in Seattle. By the way, they can be bought on site...I bought mine because I was on the way home from Cleveland and realized I'd forgotten to get enough cash to pay the toll to cross Pennsylvania, but they're sold at Turnpike service areas, and good for the trip you're currently on. And I think I've seen E-ZPass sales booths at some bridges in the New York area. But now that I do have one I can't imagine why I waited so long...the time saved waiting at toll booths, for starters, is worth it.


You can also buy an EZPASS transponder at certain gas stations or supermarkets. Also you can register an EZPASS transponder in a different state than the one you reside in to avoid some of the fees. Plenty of people in other states have Illinois, Virginia, and Massachusetts EZPASS accounts for this reason alone.


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## JimInJersey

In the Philly/Balto/AC area, you'll need an EzPass or cash for the following things:

1) Ben Franklin bridge from NJ to Philly, center city philly
2) Walt Whitman Bridge from NJ to Philly, south philly sports complex area
3) Commodore Barry Bridge from NJ to Chester, PA - leads to I-95 NB 
4) Atlantic City Expressway - from philly suburbs to the Boardwalk.
5) Delaware Memorial Bridge from NJ to Delaware.
6) PA Turnpike if you get on it
7) NJ Turnpike if you get on it
8) Garden State Parkway if you get on it
9) A small chunk of I-95 SB in Delaware, but you can get around it on US 40
10) A small chunk of I-95 NB in Maryland, but you can get around it on US 40

A couple of the tunnels in Balto have tolls as well, but I forget which direction pays them - I think the Harbor Tunnel is for northbound I-95 users...

The Delaware Visitor Center/Rest stop on I-95 sells transponders, as does the service area at the Delaware end of the Del Mem Bridge (there is no service area on the NJ side). 

They are useful from a time-saving POV, but 95% of our use is for the DMB, and we don't get any kind of discount for the bridge, so it still hits us for $4.00 every time we go to Delaware.


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## Penn's Woods

^^Unless something's changed, the Baltimore tunnels charge in both directions. The Susquehanna bridges on I-95 and US 40 northbound only. The way to avoid that toll is to go way out of the way and use US 1 over Conowingo Dam.

What about the Tacony-Palmyra and Burlington-Bristol bridges, which are run by Burlington County? Do they accept E-ZPass? (That comes under the heading Things I Really Ought to Know, but I never use them....)


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## diablo234

The toll on I-95 in Delaware is also in both directions.


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## Penn's Woods

That's true. And the backups for cash-paying customers can stretch for miles (especially northbound on a Sunday). But I usually avoid that toll; it's easy enough to do. Hit the Wawa on Md. 2/Del. 896 at the state line for something to eat....


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## Botev1912

How much will such a trip cost me approximately?

Philadelphia - Jersey City - Atlantic City - Wilmington - Baltimore - Philadelphia

Is it cheaper when you have a pass?


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## JimInJersey

Botev1912 said:


> How much will such a trip cost me approximately?
> 
> Philadelphia - Jersey City - Atlantic City - Wilmington - Baltimore - Philadelphia
> 
> Is it cheaper when you have a pass?


I think the tolls on the AC Expressway give a discount for EzPass, and possibly the GSP too. But I don't use it for money savings, I use it for TIME savings.

Philly to Jersey City is an I-95/NJTP route - Tolls on the NJTP, not sure how much. Est. $10 each way.

From Jersey City to AC is a little bit of NJTP and then the Garden State Parkway. Again, est. $10 to go south.

AC to Wilmington can be done for $0 except for the Delaware Bridge crossing which is $4.00. There is no DIRECT route, since those of us over here in the s/w corner of NJ are 3rd class citizens. You can take the AC expressway west towards Philly again, but there's no exit to go south on I-295 to head back down towards the DMB. You'd have to go all the way up to around Camden, get off the 42 North/South Freeway and then U-turn to get back on I-295 South. Not recommended.

The only 'direct' way to get from AC to Wilmington is to take US 40 west, which is also known as the Black Horse Pike. It heads out of AC at the southern end of the city, and parallels the ACE for a while but then heads more westerly/southerly, through the towns of Mays Landing, Hammonton, Elmer (yeah, Elmer...), Woodstown and finally Carneys Point at the river's edge. It's mostly two-lane and rural, but can be very unsafe at night when drunks and sleepers from AC head home broke and can't take the ACE. However, it IS Route 40, and it DOES pass the famous Cowtown Rodeo.

Wilmington to Baltimore is I-95, tolled in Delaware and Maryland. Each state collects $4.00, if I remember.

Wave as ya go by - I can see the DMB from here.


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## JimInJersey

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^Unless something's changed, the Baltimore tunnels charge in both directions. The Susquehanna bridges on I-95 and US 40 northbound only. The way to avoid that toll is to go way out of the way and use US 1 over Conowingo Dam.
> 
> What about the Tacony-Palmyra and Burlington-Bristol bridges, which are run by Burlington County? Do they accept E-ZPass? (That comes under the heading Things I Really Ought to Know, but I never use them....)


Yeah, I don't even pay attention anymore, my EzPass is automatically refreshed from my checking account, and I try to get in the express lanes when I can. 


The northern bridges in Philly I'm not sure about - TP and BB. I think I've been over the TP once in my life. Don't forget the Betsy Ross too...


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## Penn's Woods

^^The Betsy Ross is a Delaware River Port Authority bridge, so the same deal as Ben, Walt and Barry (extra points to any non-local who can give the full names of those three) - a few dollars (is it five now?), westbound only.

By the way - and as a native New Jerseyan I'm allowed to say this - there's a joke that's helpful if you're trying to remember which direction you have to pay and which is free, that is true for both the Philadelphia-area and the New York-area bridges and tunnels: "New Jersey is the only state you have to pay to get out of."


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## Road_UK

That's the same ongoing joke about the Severn Bridge between Wales and England. You have to pay to get into Wales, but it's free to escape back to English civilization.


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-75 Fort Myers, FL*

Widening of I-75 in Fort Myers, Florida.










It is located in Lee County. The size of the urbanized area suggests a population of over 2 million (30x30 mi), but the actual population is 660,000. A closer inspection shows many vacant lots, especially farther inland. This area was probably laid out during the land boom of the 1920s.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Natomasken said:


> I know this is a bit north of you, but do you know what's going on with constructing a connection between I-95 and the PA Turnpike? I read many years ago one would be built to eliminate the gap in I-95 but I haven't heard any more about it, and don't see any evidence of anything happening on Google maps.





Penn's Woods said:


> ^^There have been headlines about it in the last year or so, although I use 95 to get to North Jersey all the time - my mother lives far enough west that taking 95 to somewhere north of Trenton and then using state roads makes more sense than the Turnpike - and I can't say I've noticed anything actually going on.
> 
> New Jersey has been doing a lot of work - widening the Turnpike from the existing southern end of the split roadway down to the junction with the Pennsylvania Turnpike connector. (I do use the Turnpike occasionally for that North Jersey trip so I've seen it.)


Just to confirm...I took 95 north to Mom's today and paid careful attention as I was in the Turnpike area: there's nothing noticeable going on. At least nothing that's noticeable from 95 (including a glance east along the Turnpike while on the overpass).


----------



## Tom 958

From a couple of posts I made at AARoads a week ago. Photos are mine.

Southbound on I-78/85 in downtown Atlanta, a new arrow per lane sign, in violation of the MUTCD because APL's aren't supposed to be used unless there's an optional lane:









Heading east on I-20 to the new(ish) addition of lanes from I-285 to Panola Road. Here we're passing under the 20 eastbound to 285 northbound ramp, just before the new CD serving traffic coming from 285 and going to Wesley Chapel Road. Formerly there were three mainline lanes for I-20 combining with three narrowing to two from 285 into a five lane roadway, with a two-lane drop at the Wesley Chapel exit. Now, there's a three lane mainline and a three lane CD.









On the CD, the first APL sign I ever saw in Georgia. The third lane from 285 has already ended.









At the split. For a while, the right fork of the optional lane that the arrow indicates didn't exist-- surprise! The bridge at Wesley Chapel was replaced about five years ago, and bays for CD's were provided at considerable expense. They're not being used, though. You'll soon see why.









Just beyond Wesley Chapel, there are still five lanes, with the Wesley Chapel onramp merging into the right lanes, which will soon end. That's why the CD didn't use the bay under the Wesley Chapel bridge: the room was needed to cram six lanes into four as quickly as possible.









And, the crowning glory: after the cramdown, _no shoulders at all_ on this short bridge! I guess the noise barriers ate up whatever money had been budgeted for adding at least a right shoulder. hno:

That bridge was built in 1960 or so and AFAIK still exists somewhere under the asphalt. Standard rural shoulders were added in the early '70's and the median was decked over not long after that when the 36 foot median was used for two more lanes. Frugality is a virtue, but I think we could've popped for something better here.









Going back westbound, plenty of noise barriers but no extra lane, and (not pictured) a scary-short onramp from Panola Road. :-o


----------



## fredcalif

I notice when I was in Atlanta, most freeways don't have street lights ,like in North Carolina and other southern cities


----------



## Natomasken

Tom 958 said:


> From a couple of posts I made at AARoads a week ago. Photos are mine.
> 
> Southbound on I-78/85 in downtown Atlanta, a new arrow per lane sign, in violation of the MUTCD because APL's aren't supposed to be used unless there's an optional lane:


I'm glad to see this! I always thought it made no sense to have two completely different formats (down arrows vs. up arrows) for freeway junctions with the only difference being whether there was an option lane or not. But I wish the MUTCD had specified black-on-yellow panels for the exit only lanes (like on the adjacent sign with the down arrow). I think this would be cleaner and make the exit only message more noticeable. The two separate yellow panels are small and not very visible and they also reduce the legibility of the arrow, IMO. I'm also glad to see these don't use the compressed font I saw on the signs when I visited Atlanta years ago.


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## Tom 958

Natomasken said:


> I'm also glad to see these don't use the compressed font I saw on the signs when I visited Atlanta years ago.


Oh, it's still around. I'd say it and the new style (first grade pencil, I call it) are about 50-50%. And they're often mixed on the same stretch of highway. It looks like crap.


----------



## CharmCity1

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^Unless something's changed, the Baltimore tunnels charge in both directions. The Susquehanna bridges on I-95 and US 40 northbound only. The way to avoid that toll is to go way out of the way and use US 1 over Conowingo Dam.
> 
> What about the Tacony-Palmyra and Burlington-Bristol bridges, which are run by Burlington County? Do they accept E-ZPass? (That comes under the heading Things I Really Ought to Know, but I never use them....)


Yes the tolls in Maryland are $4 Fort Mchenry and Baltimore Harbor Tunnels including the Baltimore Beltway outer harbor crossing on the Francis Scott Key Bridge are charged both ways.


----------



## myosh_tino

Natomasken said:


> I'm also glad to see these don't use the compressed font I saw on the signs when I visited Atlanta years ago.


That really wasn't a compressed font. Georgia used to use 20" UC/16" LC Series D on guide signs instead of the more standard 16" UC/12" LC Series E-modified. The increased letter heights mitigated the reduced legibility of Series D.


----------



## Nexis

The New San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge by CosmoPhotography, on Flickr


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## Innsertnamehere

ChrisZwolle said:


> Widening of I-75 in Fort Myers, Florida.
> 
> 
> 
> It is located in Lee County. The size of the urbanized area suggests a population of over 2 million (30x30 mi), but the actual population is 660,000. A closer inspection shows many vacant lots, especially farther inland. This area was probably laid out during the land boom of the 1920s.


nope, 1950's and 1960's. I suggest reading up on it, its one of the worlds largest real estate scams. Some real estate guy drain thousands of acres of Florida everglade to create the "city of the future" and sell essentially valueless land to unsuspecting buyers who often only saw the land from a helicopter before signing the dotted line. now there is a multi billion dollar project to pump water back into some of the drained areas and to restore the natural environment to the section south of I-75..

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/19...060511_1_everglades-golden-gate-estates-swamp

Cape Coral is similar, but less so of a failure. Its still largely a graveyard of streets paved 30 years ago with only a few houses in sight. Florida as a whole is pockmarked with failed real estate developments, its actually a really interesting place.


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## Kanadzie

I came close to buying a house in Cape Coral during the crash... like $30 000 and built in 2007, looked great, but it's the middle of bloody nowhere (nowhere near Miami or anything). But wow, a house that in a burned out part of North York would be a million.

compared to my house in Canada, 1968 construction, 1/3 the lot size, paid $300 000 and it was a good deal...


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-35W, Fort Worth, TX*

A groundbreaking ceremony was held for the North Tarrant Express I-35W segment in Fort Worth. It runs for 7 miles from I-30 to I-820. 

It's huge, it looks even more complicated than the LBJ Express.


----------



## rantanamo

the interchange looks ridiculous, but the freeway part looks pretty standard.


----------



## fredcalif

ChrisZwolle said:


> A groundbreaking ceremony was held for the North Tarrant Express I-35W segment in Fort Worth. It runs for 7 miles from I-30 to I-820.
> 
> It's huge, it looks even more complicated than the LBJ Express.


:eek2::eek2::eek2: only in Texas the king of the freeways :banana::banana::banana:


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## ChrisZwolle

Downtown Fort Worth has 4 freeway-to-freeway interchanges within one square mile. I-30, I-35W, US 287/Spur 280 and SH 121 all intersect nearby.


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## Penn's Woods

^^While downtown Philadelphia (actually, we say "Center City") has actual places to live (more and more people choosing to live downtown and the geographical area that's considered downtown is growing steadily) and stuff to do. 

I'm sorry, that was unfair to Fort Worth...I've never even been there. But at some point all the freeways and interchanges in the world are pointless if there's no place for drivers to go.


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## rantanamo

downtown FW is pretty vibrant. Its no Philly, but not bad at all.


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## ChrisZwolle

The Downtown Fort Worth freeway system.










The new 7th Street Bridge in Fort Worth.

7th Street Bridge by Photo.Lindz, on Flickr


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## Penn's Woods

rantanamo said:


> downtown FW is pretty vibrant. Its no Philly, but not bad at all.


Glad to hear it!

:cheers:


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## geogregor

More of my St Louis shots:


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## geogregor

I guess we can consider ML King Bridge as a long slip road of the freeway exit


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## Penn's Woods

^^Nice pics!

As for the signage....

("Interstate 270" as a control city....a point where you can choose between "St Louis," "Downtown St Louis," and "Eads Br" (which leads where?)....H treated as a route marker....)


----------



## Kanadzie

what I want to know is what is going on here:








:lol:


----------



## geogregor

Kanadzie said:


> what I want to know is what is going on here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lol:


Well, I had to drive this stretch twice as the first time I missed the correct lane:nuts:


----------



## Natomasken

Kanadzie said:


> what I want to know is what is going on here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lol:


There are a couple of confusing things going on here. For one, the two ramps to the same place. But I can see why that's needed, since there are on-ramps on both sides of the road a short distance upstream from here, and having two ramps prevents a lot of weaving. The Third Street exit sign is confusing to me, it straddles both the left exit and through lanes, so it's not clear which one should be taken. It would have been better to have a down arrow pointing to the left-hand lane of the 55/64 mainline. It's also confusing to have "Downtown St Louis" and "St Louis" as destinations, but I can understand that too. The downtown exits go specifically only to downtown, but the St Louis direction leads to other parts of the city too.


----------



## Natomasken

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^Nice pics!
> 
> As for the signage....
> 
> ("Interstate 270" as a control city....a point where you can choose between "St Louis," "Downtown St Louis," and "Eads Br" (which leads where?)....H treated as a route marker....)


Yes, it's strange to have a route number written out as a control city. It should be "TO" with a route shield. I've seen the H hospital symbol on the same line as route shields before (it fits easily there) but having WEST centered over it and the two shields does treat it like a route marker. WEST should have been centered only over the two route shields instead.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Natomasken said:


> It's also confusing to have "Downtown St Louis" and "St Louis" as destinations, but I can understand that too. The downtown exits go specifically only to downtown, but the St Louis direction leads to other parts of the city too.


My native-New-Jerseyan's analogy to this is that if you get close enough to New York that which way you go, at a given decision point, to get to New York is a function of which tunnel or bridge you're going to take, they just drop the "New York" and say "Holland Tunnel," "Lincoln Tunnel," "Geo Washington Br".... rather than "Holland Tunnel...New York," "Lincoln Tunnel...New York" and so on.


----------



## siamu maharaj

Kanadzie said:


> what I want to know is what is going on here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lol:


Is there a sign before this which says "MLK Bridge, use 2B or 2C"?


----------



## LtBk

geogregor said:


> More of my St Louis shots:


Are those Clearview signs?


----------



## Natomasken

LtBk said:


> Are those Clearview signs?


It looks like most of them are. The gantry with the two MLK Bridge exits isn't, those are older signs, you can see where the I-70 shield was removed when that route was relocated. Also, the gantry with the Cape Girardeau sign is not. It's in Missouri and the others are in Illinois.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-25, Denver, CO*





































All photos by the Colorado Department of Transporation.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-405, Los Angeles, CA*

Probably the most expensive carpool lane in history opened to traffic in Los Angeles. It runs for 10 miles from I-10 to US 101 across Sepulveda Pass. The new HOV lane is only northbound, as there already was a southbound HOV lane since 2002. I-405 is now widened to 12 lanes. The carpool lane cost just over $ 1 billion.


----------



## Penn's Woods

At AAA for an oil change and annual inspection.

Took a look at the 2014 AAA road atlas. Of note: they've got I-22 marked as "future" in Mississippi but not in Alabama. I mean they've got it marked in Alabama but without the "future" they have along with the markers in Mississippi, so I would assume it's actually signed. Does that agree with the situation on the ground (or more precisely, the situation on the ground a year ago when I assume this thing was published)?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-405, Seal Beach, CA*

Another carpool project that will be completed this year is the widening of I-405 in Seal Beach, between CA-22 and I-605. The project will add a second carpool lane in both directions, creating 8 lanes each way. This is the busiest freeway in the United States.


----------



## Bender

ChrisZwolle said:


> This is the busiest freeway in the United States.


I wonder why they did not put *some* cars in their animated movie. Feels ridiculous to see such a wide freeway completely empty, especially after the real footage that shows traffic jams.


----------



## Natomasken

ChrisZwolle said:


> Probably the most expensive carpool lane in history opened to traffic in Los Angeles. It runs for 10 miles from I-10 to US 101 across Sepulveda Pass. The new HOV lane is only northbound, as there already was a southbound HOV lane since 2002. I-405 is now widened to 12 lanes. The carpool lane cost just over $ 1 billion.


I was in LA earlier this month and took a few pictures of the 405. The first one is from the Getty Center (museum) on a ridge above the freeway.









Next one is southbound just south of the 101 Freeway.









Now going northbound approaching the summit at Sepulveda Pass.









At the pass.


















Approaching the 101 Freeway.


----------



## Natomasken

I had to go up to Seattle last week and took a few pix of I-5. I also shot videos of I-5, I-90, the Alaska Way viaduct, and West Seattle Bridge. I hope to post those sometime but need to learn how to do videos first.

Going northbound on I-5 approaching downtown Seattle. First time I've seen variable speed limit signs in the US. 60 is the default limit.









Speed limit reduced as we approach congestion through downtown.









I-5 has reversible express lanes going north from downtown.


















After the freeway was built, a deck was built over it that supports a city park among other things.









Reversible express lanes in the middle.









Now going south towards downtown.









The north side of the freeway deck.









Exit to I-90 from C/D lanes.


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## Penn's Woods

That's probably the first two times I've seen "OK" on an American road sign. The New Jersey Turnpike, however, has been using variable speed limit signs since the dawn of time.


----------



## Skyline_

Counting from the bottom of the post, pictures no. 3 & 6 show some cracks on the asphalt.
How unusual is that? How often are those highway cracks fixed?


----------



## Natomasken

Penn's Woods said:


> That's probably the first two times I've seen "OK" on an American road sign. The New Jersey Turnpike, however, has been using variable speed limit signs since the dawn of time.


You're right, I'd forgotten about those old neon-tube signs, which I've definitely seen. One difference is these are lane-specific, like typical European practice. They can also be used to display other messages: I saw one with "CAUTION" and a down arrow above the right lane before heavy merging traffic.

The city of Los Angeles used to use signs with two right arrows, with "ONLY" under one and "OK" under the other to indicate option lanes.


----------



## Natomasken

Skyline_ said:


> Counting from the bottom of the post, pictures no. 3 & 6 show some cracks on the asphalt.
> How unusual is that? How often are those highway cracks fixed?


Unfortunately not that uncommon in the Seattle region. I've gone up there a few times in the last few years and the pavement has always been in pretty poor shape. I haven't noticed any repairs in that time. It's better in other parts of the state, like where I live (southwest, near Portland). The big problem we have around here (Oregon too) is ruts in the pavement caused by studded tires. IMO there ought to be a heavy tax on studded tires used to pay for the damage they cause.


----------



## Botev1912

Skyline_ said:


> Counting from the bottom of the post, pictures no. 3 & 6 show some cracks on the asphalt.
> How unusual is that? How often are those highway cracks fixed?


This is concrete and is 60 years old. They will eventually repave it in a few years.


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## Penn's Woods

Natomasken said:


> I had to go up to Seattle last week and took a few pix of I-5. I also shot videos of I-5, I-90, the Alaska Way viaduct, and West Seattle Bridge. I hope to post those sometime but need to learn how to do videos first.
> 
> Going northbound on I-5 approaching downtown Seattle. First time I've seen variable speed limit signs in the US. 60 is the default limit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speed limit reduced as we approach congestion through downtown.


It occurs to me that lane-discipline purists should be protesting here. Four 30s and a 45? Surely it should be the other way around, since everyone should be driving in the right lane and using the other four for passing.... ;-)


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## ChrisZwolle

The left lane is probably an HOV lane.


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## Natomasken

ChrisZwolle said:


> The left lane is probably an HOV lane.


It was an HOV lane (as in the upper pic) but at this point has turned into an exit-only lane. It's hard to tell because the lane-drop lane markings are poorly done. You can sort-of see the "left lane must exit" sign in the distance on the lower pic. For some reason, the yellow "exit only" panels are missing from the overhead sign.

Correction: What is actually happening here is that the HOV lane continues past the left exit, but non-HOVs are allowed to use the left lane to exit. That explains the lack of the exit only panels. Under the "left lane must exit" sign in a panel that says "except transit and carpools."


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-95 Express Lanes, Northern Virginia*

New aerial photos :cheers:


IMG_2049 by VaDOT, on Flickr


IMG_2064 by VaDOT, on Flickr


IMG_2087 by VaDOT, on Flickr


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## Exethalion

ChrisZwolle said:


> The carpool lane cost just over $ 1 billion.


I imagine that figure includes all the other general improvements they did, like widening, the new interchange at Wilshire, and a _lot_ of work on the retaining walls that I noticed.


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## gregduh

I ride on 95 northbound through Prince William County all the way to the Beltway everyday to work, and southbound on the way home. The construction definitely seems to be progressing well. I believe they are going to add a lane in either direction until Route 234 as well when they repave the regular 95 lanes. Those Express lanes are going to be three wide from the Beltway until Prince William Parkway, it looks like. It certainly handles a ton of traffic everyday. No Metro out there.


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-278 Kusciuszko Bridge, New York*

*Governor Cuomo Announces Contractors for the $555 Million Kosciuszko Bridge Replacement*

Governor Andrew M. Cuomo today announced that a design-build team has been selected to replace the eastbound Kosciuszko Bridge carrying the Brooklyn-Queens Expressway (Interstate 278) over Newtown Creek between Brooklyn and Queens in New York City. The team includes construction companies Skanska, an experienced design-build construction firm based in New York City, which will be managing partner; Ecco III of Yonkers; Kiewit of Nebraska; and HNTB of Kansas as the lead design firm. The $555 million project is the largest single contract the New York State Department of Transportation (NYSDOT) has ever undertaken.

The 1.1 mile eastbound viaduct is being completely replaced, with the new span being built alongside the current bridge. The portion over water will be a cable-stayed design. The new bridge will improve safety and reduce congestion through wider driving lanes, the addition of auxiliary lanes and shoulders, and a reduced grade which will make it easier for trucks to stay up to speed. 

Construction will begin later this summer with demolition of buildings to make room for the new bridge and pile driving for the bridge foundations. Construction on the foundations is expected to begin in the fall and continue through 2015, with the bulk of the new eastbound bridge being built in 2016 and demolition of the existing eastbound structure in 2017. All work is expected to be completed in early 2018. A new westbound viaduct will be built as part of a future project.​
Full press release: https://www.governor.ny.gov/press/05292014-kosciuszko-bridge-replacement


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## DemolitionDave

LOL I was working on a project right next to that bridge and it always made me laugh that nobody knew the correct way to pronounce the name.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-64, Virginia*

The first DDI in Virginia is located at the I-64 / US 15 interchange in Louisa County.


IMG_2372 by VaDOT, on Flickr


IMG_2330 by VaDOT, on Flickr


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## geogregor

Rural I-55 heading south from St Louis to Memphis




































Dead straight, pure America 



























Road works, down to one lane, I think the speed limit was down only slightly to 60mph


















We are choosing I-40


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## geogregor

Entering Memphis


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## Penn's Woods

Top story in this area tonight: the bridge on I-495 (in Delaware) over the Christina River is closed. Structural issues.


----------



## Natomasken

ChrisZwolle said:


> The first DDI in Virginia is located at the I-64 / US 15 interchange in Louisa County.
> 
> 
> IMG_2372 by VaDOT, on Flickr
> 
> 
> IMG_2330 by VaDOT, on Flickr


Nice design. I drove through one of these on the Bangerter Highway in Utah. It felt very natural. It's very efficient too, only two cycles per set of signals needed, unlike a normal diamond interchange or a SPUI.


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## Natomasken

geogregor said:


> We are choosing I-40


So you were going to Memphis instead of Memphis? :lol:

(But nice sign anyway!)


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## Tom 958

That's in Arkansas. I've been in Little Rock since Sunday, and I've noticed that Arkansas apparently doesn't do big arrow or arrow per lane signs, even when they'd be appropriate, as at that 40-55 split.

I suppose I should take some photos, but nothing really stands out for me.


----------



## brewerfan386

On April 17, WisDOT unveiled it's recommended alternative for the I-39/90 - Beltline interchange in Madison, as part of the massive 39/90 widening project: 









http://projects.511wi.gov/documents/33947/feae520b-2602-4799-9168-efa4719d2c53

Overhead layout:








http://projects.511wi.gov/documents/33947/1717e340-0b7e-4f0f-b693-8f23480f843f

Note how the US 51/ Stoughton Rd ramps (blue) are separate from the WB Beltline mainline. 

Overall, I really like this design, WisDOT is definitely doing this one right.


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## Suburbanist

*I-285 Atlanta*

This time-lapse video showcases a full ride on the I-285 Atlanta ring highway.


----------



## fredcalif

Suburbanist said:


> This time-lapse video showcases a full ride on the I-285 Atlanta ring highway.


look boring and no street light on the freeways, just like most of the south


----------



## Professor L Gee

fredcalif said:


> look boring and no street light on the freeways, just like most of the south


Actually, of the bigger cities in the Atlantic South, I think Atlanta's are unique in not having streetlights on the freeways. Based on the cities whose freeways I've driven, anyway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-95 Maryland*

Maryland House northeast of Baltimore.


Maryland House Aerial2 by TheMDTA, on Flickr


Maryland House Aerial1 by TheMDTA, on Flickr


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Does that mean it's open?

The Maryland House was a big service area (of the sort you usually find only on toll roads in the U.S., but that stretch of 95 technically *is* a toll road.)

My favorite feature was the travel information center. Most states have "welcome centers" at their borders which are meant to promote tourism in the state and therefore don't have information for other states, but this facility had stuff (I picked up a North Carolina official road map once...) from up and down the East Coast.

The Maryland House and its twin north of the Susquehanna, the Chesapeake House, were both closed the last time I was down that way. Hence my question. I think they were being completely rebuilt. (The Maryland House was in the same building, in faux-Colonial style, for decades...) I hope the information center's back.

----------

In other news, from a bit to the northeast of there, local reports this morning are that that 495 bridge in Delaware which manifested structural problems a couple of weeks ago will be closed all summer. There was talk when this started of a temporary replacement....

EDIT: That building in the photos actually looks like the Chesapeake House main building.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-80, I-680, CA-12, Fairfield, CA*

I came across this project:

http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist4/projects/solano8068012/

http://www.sta.ca.gov/Content/10078/I80I680SR12_Interchange_Project.html

It will move the northern terminus of I-680 to the west, with a new combined interchange of I-80, I-680 and California State Route 12 at Fairfield. The first package started this month.


----------



## Tom 958

Some photos of Little Rock from when I was there last week. Little Rock has respectable but not very photogenic freeway system, and some of the photos I took didn't turn out well, but I've uploaded a few anyway, so I might as well share them here.

All of the freeways I drove on there had six lanes, which means that Little Rock wins the prize for having the freeway system that would be easiest to recreate accurately in SimCity 4. :lol:

This one is on I-30 headed southward from downtown, approaching the interchange with I-630. The signage is extremely economical. The bridges over I-30 have been replaced relatively recently, presumably as a part of the I-630 interchange project:










A bit further south, approaching the interchange of I-30, I-530 and I-440. This interchange is interesting because it was mostly grafted onto the existing three-way directional interchange and thus has several left-hand entrances and exits. This sign is nominally a mess, with two down arrows over one lane and no indication of a lane drop on the left, but I could figure out what it was trying to tell me easily enough (my motel was east of here, off of I-440 at the airport). Current practice would be to put an arrow-per-lane sign here, but I'm not sure it'd be that much more comprehensible:









A bit further south. I guessed right! :banana: Note the Clearview on the pullthrough sign but not on the others:










Curving off toward I-440 eastbound. Much of this area is wetlands, so most of the added portions of this interchange are on bridges, as are the westernmost several miles of I-440 and its first two service interchanges. This shot is pretty dramatic, or so I think.

Apparently the bridge piers were initially painted a weird orangey-brown color, like something Tennessee would do. Decades later, the paint has faded or washed away very unevenly, so the piers look blotchy, as though the color is actually from rusty water seeping off of the weathering steel. It looks really bad.  










Headed back north on I-30, here's the offramp to AR 10/Cantrell Road, which IMO is the most interesting highway in Little Rock. This section is part of the approaches to the bridge over the Arkansas River. This area is pretty old, as you can see from the guardrail design. The guardrail on the ramp ahead was the same as the one to the right until an errant vehicle smashed off the metal part. hno: It's pretty rare to have a full-height concrete parapet in front of a full-height metal guardrail. I wonder if the parapet was original or was added later. It somewhat resembles the type of barrier that the UK has introduced recently.

Arkansas is very conservative in designing its offramp terminals; this is an older highway, but the newer ones are similar in that the offramp appears to be built as a single twelve foot wide lane rather than having a taper of a certain size followed by the ramp itself (here's a Google Streetview link that shows it better, since I didn't get a photo). That and the parallel-type entrance ramps took a little getting used to for me.










Entering Cantrell Road, passing under the viaduct we were on in the previous photo. Note the steel piers:










Hmmm... now what? I'm leaving the Interstate system, so I suppose I should post the next batch in the non -Interstate thread. OK, then. But while I'm here, I'll veer off to rogue APL signs in Atlanta. :lol: Aren't they horrible? This one is an arrow per lane sign that doesn't actually have an arrow per lane:









The old skool signs they replaced were much better.


----------



## Nexis

New Jersey Turnpike (I-95) Southbound in Elizabeth,New Jersey by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

New Jersey Turnpike (I-95) Southbound in Elizabeth,New Jersey by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


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## JimInJersey

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^Does that mean it's open?


The one SOUTH of the river is open. The one NORTH of the river is still being rebuilt. Like you, I remember stopping at one or another of these places dozens of times over the years. I particularly remember many stops there after all-day runs up I-95 from Florida at 2 or 3 in the morning, getting out of the car after navigating through DC and Balto and thinking, "whew, I'm almost home"... Sometimes the temperature difference made me wish I'd switched out of shorts and a tee shirt at some point.  They were open 24 hours a day, which was nice. Sunoco still has the gas concession. The new one is pretty nice, but it lacks the old stone charm of the previous building. Lots of tourist info though.


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-25, Denver, CO*

The I-25 / US 6 interchange in Denver.


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## sonysnob

Tom 958 said:


> Hmmm... now what? I'm leaving the Interstate system, so I suppose I should post the next batch in the non -Interstate thread. OK, then. But while I'm here, I'll veer off to rogue APL signs in Atlanta. :lol: Aren't they horrible? This one is an arrow per lane sign that doesn't actually have an arrow per lane:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The old skool signs they replaced were much better.


My opinion my be in the minority here, but I don't hate those signs. Sure they are gigantic, but they are far more clear than the signs that they replaced, which I don't think is a bad thing, given the importance of the interchange ahead.


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## geogregor

I-55 heading from Memphis to Jackson
I found it quite picturesque and pleasant to drive.
Definitely not as boring and flat as I expected.


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## geogregor

That's all for now.


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## Penn's Woods

^^One of the few states yours truly has never been in.


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## I-275westcoastfl

You aren't missing much, terrible state. So dirty and rundown.


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## Innsertnamehere

well it is by far the poorest state in the union, so it shouldn't really be surprising. Its average income is something like $35,000 vs. the national average of ~$50,000.


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## Penn's Woods

I-275westcoastfl said:


> You aren't missing much, terrible state. So dirty and rundown.


I'd like to see Vicksburg and Natchez.


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## ChrisZwolle

Income statistics don't give the full story in the U.S., as the cost of living varies considerably in the United States. For example California has high wages, but also exorbitant housing prices (not just Silicon Valley).


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## geogregor

I-275westcoastfl said:


> You aren't missing much, terrible state. So dirty and rundown.


It is definitely an unfair statement.

No state is uniform. I've seen some pretty run down and dirty areas in Florida too.

Natchez nad Vicksburg are pretty nice. Otherwise I mostly drove through the state with short stop in Jackson. Its road infrastructure is not particularly run down, definitely better than in some northern states (Illinois comes to mind).


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## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> Income statistics don't give the full story in the U.S., as the cost of living varies considerably in the United States. For example California has high wages, but also exorbitant housing prices (not just Silicon Valley).


...and we should try to get out of the habit of gratuitous negative blanket statements about other people's home states/countries/cities anyway....


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## Botev1912

I can't imagine how MS would be more rundown than some cities in New Jersey (in New York area). If you drive around Newark, Elizabeth, Irvington you see many fourth-world places:bash: New Jersey is a very weird place. You can see the worst and the best places within only a few minutes. I am wondering what Portuguese players were thinking when they had to go to MetLife Stadium earlier this month.


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## Penn's Woods

^^Given that one of the largest Portuguese communities in the country lives very near there, in the "Ironbound" section of Newark (which is sparkling clean and not at all like one expects Newark to look), they may have enjoyed themselves. Good Portuguese and Spanish food in the Ironbound.


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## Nexis

Urban Jersey is unfairly beat up by suburban people. There are a few bad areas of Newark and Elizabeth ...but there are very nice sections....like the North Ward and East Ward. Downtown is seeing a lot of investment... Elizabeth is just under invested... Irvington is bad...along with Camden and parts of Trenton and Paterson. But the same can be said for large swaths of New York City....


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## Rail Claimore

geogregor said:


> That's all for now.


Love these shots. I've driven through Mississippi on I-20 a few times (and will do so again early next month). The way their interstates are constructed with a lot of wooded medians and curves reminds me of some of the parkways in the Northeast, only with a much more rural setting.


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## Tom 958

Rail Claimore said:


> Love these shots. I've driven through Mississippi on I-20 a few times (and will do so again early next month). The way their interstates are constructed with a lot of wooded medians and curves reminds me of some of the parkways in the Northeast, only with a much more rural setting.


That's an enduring mystery to me: why some states built their Interstates with continuously wide medians (Virginia, Tennessee) and others mostly to the prevailing minimum standards with few bifurcations(Georgia, Alabama). As the photos show, Mississippi is kind of in the middle. This:









where the bridge has an extra span over the wide median, is something that Georgia didn't do at all until the mid '70's, by which time most of the Interstates had been built.


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## I-275westcoastfl

geogregor said:


> It is definitely an unfair statement.
> 
> No state is uniform. I've seen some pretty run down and dirty areas in Florida too.
> 
> Natchez nad Vicksburg are pretty nice. Otherwise I mostly drove through the state with short stop in Jackson. Its road infrastructure is not particularly run down, definitely better than in some northern states (Illinois comes to mind).


From my experience that is my take from Mississippi, the coastal part is ok but inland just looked awful. Of course there were some decent areas but overall I would never live there or go out of my way to visit there either. If you have to compare road infrastructure to a northern state it doesn't compliment anything. Most of MS does not experience any kind of real winter, just like FL there are some roads that haven't been touched or re-paved for many years but still ok. Speaking of FL its also a state with many dirty areas especially outside the cities, it also used to be one of the poorest states many years back. It's still a state with a service based economy with overall low pay and high income inequality.


----------



## Kanadzie

Coffeeville MS sounds lame, how much further to Margaritaville?


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## geogregor

I-275westcoastfl said:


> From my experience that is my take from Mississippi, the coastal part is ok but inland just looked awful. Of course there were some decent areas but overall I would never live there or go out of my way to visit there either. If you have to compare road infrastructure to a northern state it doesn't compliment anything. Most of MS does not experience any kind of real winter, just like FL there are some roads that haven't been touched or re-paved for many years but still ok. Speaking of FL its also a state with many dirty areas especially outside the cities, it also used to be one of the poorest states many years back. It's still a state with a service based economy with overall low pay and high income inequality.


I have to say that to me Mississippi looked like any other state. Really. Not particularly worse or better.
Of course I can't judge the quality of life there but to average visitor I can't say why it would be worse than any other place.


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## Airman Kris™

As a resident of Mississippi, I feel I should speak on these claims.

First, everyone please google Madison, MS, a suburb which has been rated on of the top places to live in the US which is located just north of Jackson. Then google the streets and infrastructure _in Jackson proper, absolutely horrendous; but in the some areas of Jackson you will find extremely nice neighborhoods and probably the highest number of BMW, Mercedes, Rovers on the roads than any other state capital in the US. This is not an exaggeration , you can see 5-10 on a short trip around that part of town . This shows you can not judge the state as a whole.

As a resident who deals with the capitals cities infrastructure problems on a daily basis I look at it this way, we are making headway and you have to keep in my the city is nearly 200 years old on top of terrible Yazoo clay soil; Not to mention in a financial slump albeit easing up. The beautiful scenery makes up for it.



Jackson is the most progressive city in the state however and denies stereotypes all over, such as the recent pro-LGBTQ rights resolution. 

Gregor I did enjoy the photos! Visit Jackson sometime.

Downtown Jackson







_


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## Airman Kris™

Accidental double post.


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## Skyline_

Both left and right emergency lanes have some kind of weirf grill-like lines across the road.


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## Penn's Woods

^^If that's what I think it is, you see that lots of places. Those grooves make a lot of noise when you drive over them, so if you drift to the side of the road because you dozed off or something, you'll get a loud wake-up call. And hopefully consider taking a rest.


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## FM 2258

^^

Yes, to wake sleepy drivers up! Bzzzzrrrrrrrrrtttt!!!!! 

I remember first seeing this as a kid on IH 25 in New Mexico. Later it got implemented all over Texas.


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## ChrisZwolle

It's also increasingly common in Europe. Along with painted lines that also make a noise if you cross them.

It's safer, but doesn't really solve the issue at hand; distracted driving. Taking your eyes off the road for 2 seconds may not be a problem, but combine that with other activities (changing a CD, hook up your phone, read a text message, looking at a map) and you'll find yourself crossing the lines quite easily.


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## Airman Kris™

I have also seen these "alert-lines" on city boulevards and major thoroughfares through high pedestrian areas. It is a great idea for both city streets _and_ interstates.


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## myosh_tino

Skyline_ said:


> Both left and right emergency lanes have some kind of weirf grill-like lines across the road.


In California, we call them "rumble strips" and like others have said, they are there to alert non-attentive drivers that they have drifted onto the shoulder (left or right).

Caltrans (California's Dept of Transportation) has also placed rumble strips in between the double yellow lines that separate opposing traffic on two-lane highways that have a higher-than-average rate of head-on collisions.


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## Penn's Woods

I know the term rumble strip, but I didn't know if it could be used for those grooves on the side of the road to wake you up. To me "rumble strip" means a sort of band of noisy, rough pavement directly across the roadway that's meant to draw your attention to a hazard or just make you pay closer attention...what I'm imagining in particular is if you're approaching a school there might be a series of them so you slow down.


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## Airman Kris™

The reflectors for the lane divider obviously make a rather loud noise when driven over, I am assuming to have the same as the the so called "alert lines" or "rumble strips".


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## myosh_tino

Airman Kris™ said:


> The reflectors for the lane divider obviously make a rather loud noise when driven over, I am assuming to have the same as the the so called "alert lines" or "rumble strips".


The sounds are quite different. Driving over the reflectors makes a thump… thump… thump… thump sound while driving over the rumble strip makes a "BBBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR" sound.


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## Kanadzie

the sound of your tires disintegrating


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## Penn's Woods

^^It's not that bad for them. And you don't drive over a rumble strip for long...that's sort of the point. Mais comment dit-on "rumble strip" en français ?


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## Kanadzie

Quebec calls them "bandes rugueuses" which I think is the correct term, but Ontario has signed them on Hwy 17 as, IIRC, "bandes medianes striées" (striated median band, they are on the centreline on that road) which strikes me as _terribly _awkward (not very uncommon though on MTO signage for some reason)


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## Mirror's Edge

I've seen those grill things used here for as long as I can remember, first it was the paint that was fairly thick in that exact pattern with the same result, but since 1995-ish it's been the actual asphalt tasked with waking you up.
We have them on the center line/divider too, even where it's legal to overtake, I find this a bit annoying at times.
BBRRRRRR


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## Botev1912

Skyline_ said:


> Both left and right emergency lanes have some kind of weirf grill-like lines across the road.


A lot of highways in the US have these.


----------



## Botev1912

myosh_tino said:


> Caltrans (California's Dept of Transportation) has also placed rumble strips in between the double yellow lines that separate opposing traffic on two-lane highways that have a higher-than-average rate of head-on collisions.


it's the same in Washington. Haven't seen it anywhere on the east coast.


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## Airman Kris™

myosh_tino said:


> The sounds are quite different. Driving over the reflectors makes a thump… thump… thump… thump sound while driving over the rumble strip makes a "BBBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR" sound.


Yes they do sound different but as I said they still serve the same purpose. The reflectors happen to serve two.


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## geogregor

Airman Kris™ said:


> Gregor I did enjoy the photos! Visit Jackson sometime.


Actually I did stop in Jackson for a few hours. As it was Sunday the capitol building was closed  but we visited the old capitol.
I post some non-road pictures of my US travels in the Polish part of Skyscrapercity .


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## Tyger-Wyger

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^It's not that bad for them. And you don't drive over a rumble strip for long...that's sort of the point. Mais comment dit-on "rumble strip" en français ?


Bande sonore.


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## Penn's Woods

^^Merci. Thought that was "soundtrack."


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-75, Sarasota, FL*

Sarasota gets perhaps the biggest DDI in the U.S., with 5 through lanes each way. It will be the first DDI in the state of Florida.


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-77, Charlotte, NC*

*NCDOT Signs Contract to Provide Reliable Travel Time Along Heavily Congested I-77*

The N.C. Department of Transportation today signed an agreement with Cintra for a public-private-partnership (P3) contract to improve the traffic flow along 26 miles of I-77 in the Charlotte area, one of the most congested roadways in the state. The P3 enables NCDOT to address a critical need and provide immediate travel time reliability along I-77 from Uptown Charlotte to the Lake Norman area that could otherwise not be completed with limited funds.

The state will invest about $88 million dollars and Cintra will secure the remainder of the $655 million to design, build, operate and maintain the managed lanes project in exchange for toll revenue generated from the lanes. This public-private partnership will complete the project within four years instead of the estimated 20 years it would take to secure enough state funding to move forward.

The I-77 project includes converting the current High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lanes, which already exist along I-77, and adding capacity to the roadway. The existing HOV lanes and new lanes will be High Occupancy managed lanes that allow free use for eligible carpoolers (three passengers or greater), buses and motorcyclists, while allowing other drivers to pay a toll to use those lanes. 

The project will add capacity to I-77 between Brookshire Freeway (Exit 11) in Charlotte and N.C. 150 (Exit 36) in Iredell County. This portion of the I-77 corridor already experiences significant congestion, and projections show a 2-to-3 percent increase in traffic volume is expected every year through 2030.​
Press release: https://apps.ncdot.gov/newsreleases/details.aspx?r=10023


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## Penn's Woods

Here's something different:

http://www.paturnpike.com/news/falcons.aspx

Nice.

(Just went on to get my E-ZPass statement and that was high up on the homepage.)


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## flierfy

lafreak84 said:


> Why don't they connect the new loop 202 with the existing loop 101 and new loop 303 with the existing route 60 to make a complete west-east connection?


I asked myself exactly the same question when I saw this proposal. Although I can only guess, the answer is probably that the favourable corridor which leads directly to the I-10/101 junction hasn't been safeguarded and is now at least partly developed which makes it necessary to join I-10 further east.


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## fredcalif

Paddington said:


> California also seems to have in general really short and fast merging highway ramps, even way out in the exurbs/newer areas. I'm used to the massively long highway ramps from the Midwest.
> 
> The city with the best expressways IMO is Phoenix. They have huge capacity roads that rival what you see in California and Texas. But the pavement quality, engineering, planning, design, traffic flow, and general user-friendliness is superior to California and the scenery/fun factor driving through Phoenix is better than the big cities of East Texas. They're also impeccably clean. In LA, there's crap all over the sides of the roads like a Third World country. uke:


by far the best, and I have been all over the country.
the only state I will compare to AZ is Texas with big and high quality freeways

the worst by far and in southern CA and in the north east.

I love driving on the Phoenix freeways, they are just clean, good rubberized pavement and good landscaping and it the system is growing by the day.

we are not done yet. there is many more to come in the next 10 years. :banana::banana::banana::banana:


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## desertpunk

Paddington said:


> California also seems to have in general really short and fast merging highway ramps, even way out in the exurbs/newer areas. I'm used to the massively long highway ramps from the Midwest.
> 
> The city with the best expressways IMO is Phoenix. They have huge capacity roads that rival what you see in California and Texas. But the pavement quality, engineering, planning, design, traffic flow, and general user-friendliness is superior to California and the scenery/fun factor driving through Phoenix is better than the big cities of East Texas. They're also impeccably clean. In LA, there's crap all over the sides of the roads like a Third World country. uke:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> " frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>


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## zaphod

so are they really going to do that part of 202 that would go past gila river reservation where would phx have a legit beltway?

I was under some impression that was not tenable politically or something.


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## Paddington

The Loops 101, 202, and 303 were never intended to be circular loops like Washington's Capital Beltway. And they do form a circuit with the other highways that they terminate in.

With the highways that they built they did an excellent job anticipating the needs of the people. I had no problem getting around the Phoenix metro area.

A highway to Las Vegas would be nice and is in the works.


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-405, CA*

*I-405 Project to Deliver Measure M Promise, Caltrans Intends to Phase in HOT Lanes*

The Orange County Transportation Authority was informed today by Caltrans that the I-405 Improvement Project should include the Measure M commitment of one regular lane in each direction and add high-occupancy toll lanes at a later date.

This stretch of the I-405 carries more than 370,000 cars a day and that number is expected to increase approximately 35 percent by 2040.​
Press release: http://octa.net/newsstory-freeways.aspx?id=4053

This means I-405 will first be widened from 10 to 12 lanes (all free) and later from 12 to 14 lanes, including 2 HOT lanes each way, by adding a new toll lane and converting the existing HOV lane into a HOT lane. 

The Seal Beach segment will feature 18 lanes of traffic. The forecasted AADT is 500,000 vehicles per day.


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## Nexis

Interstate 280 at the Stickel Draw Bridge in Newark,NJ by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Typical Rush Hour on I-280 Westbound in Harrison,NJ by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


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## I-275westcoastfl

Paddington said:


> In LA, the roads are like crap to drive on. I haven't taken out a tape measure, but subjectively compared to the rest of the country, the lanes seem very narrow. No matter how many lanes they build, the expressways are congested at all hours. :nuts: I rarely go out because it takes 3 hours to get anywhere. hno:
> 
> A lot of the interchanges here - while they may look cool on aerial views - are poorly designed and extremely confusing for the motorist. This is especially true if you are passing through areas like Glendale, Pasadena, or downtown LA


As someone who was in LA recently and has driven on many different highways across the country it really isn't that bad. During rush hour LA traffic is bad but I managed to get around pretty fast the rest of the time. The lanes in some areas seemed slightly narrower but nothing too noticeable. The interchanges are old and have outdated designs but are still pretty cool to look at. The downside is the interchanges add to the traffic problems.


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-10 Mobile, AL*

A render of the planned bridge across the Mobile River in Mobile, Alabama.










http://www.mobileriverbridge.com/


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## geogregor

I-49 in Louisiana, taken during my trip in April


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## FM 2258

^^

Gorgeous stretch of freeway. I like it when there is wide median with trees, almost feels like you're on a 2-lane country road doing 75 mph....I guess technically it would be a 2-lane road out in the country.


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## geogregor

FM 2258 said:


> ^^
> 
> Gorgeous stretch of freeway. I like it when there is wide median with trees, almost feels like you're on a 2-lane country road doing 75 mph....I guess technically it would be a 2-lane road out in the country.


Yep, such rural interstates are fantastic.

Here something different, Atchafalaya Basin Bridge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atchafalaya_Basin_Bridge



















Surrounding landscape


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## geogregor




----------



## geogregor

The End


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## fredcalif

geogregor said:


> Yep, such rural interstates are fantastic.
> 
> Here something different, Atchafalaya Basin Bridge
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atchafalaya_Basin_Bridge
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Surrounding landscape


I love Lousiana Bridges over those Bayous, I enjoyed driving there is like out of this world :banana::banana:


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## miniviews

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/...re-lanes-in-the-works-for-west-oahu-commuters

Completed "H1 Rehab" project in Honolulu now has 4 lanes in each direction with 10 feet widths. 

Underconstruction "H1 PM Contraflow" project: 
- Pearl City viaduct construction to add a PM shoulder lane.
- Aiea re-striping for a PM shoulder lane.
- Additional lane into Waipahu/Waikele from H1/H2 split.


----------



## CharmCity1

miniviews said:


> http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/...re-lanes-in-the-works-for-west-oahu-commuters
> 
> Completed "H1 Rehab" project in Honolulu now has 4 lanes in each direction with 10 feet widths.
> 
> Underconstruction "H1 PM Contraflow" project:
> - Pearl City viaduct construction to add a PM shoulder lane.
> - Aiea re-striping for a PM shoulder lane.
> - Additional lane into Waipahu/Waikele from H1/H2 split.











Completed version








http://www.roadstothefuture.com/EW_Expwy_Harbor_Route.html
http://smartgrowthmd.wordpress.com/2013/07/10/baltimore-inner-harbor/
http://baltimorearchitecture.org/2010/11/03/baltimore-rescued-from-the-interstate-highway-system-i83-i95-i70-in-the-1960s/
That's good news for you guys. The importance in planning freeways cannot be overstated. In the very early highway boom of the early 40s late 70s Baltimore would study 12 plans many of which the majority of people are glad did not get built.
This map shows the proposed expressway system in downtown Baltimore as of 1960. The elevated expressway viaduct that passed through the south edge of the CBD along the north edge of the Inner Harbor.
The Inner Harbor Bridge was a key feature of both proposals. It would cross the Inner Harbor on a 6- or 8-lane fixed bridge with 50 feet of vertical navigational clearance; that is the height requested by the Maryland Port Authority, and it was agreed upon by the highway planners. Tall ships with masts as high as 95 feet still used the Inner Harbor, and these would be blocked by the bridge. Second pic is Seattle.















The Jones Falls Expressway (JFX I-83) taken from the name of the branded stream it runs over. In the 1960s, Baltimore neighborhoods like Mt. Vernon, Federal Hill, and Fells Point were all in danger of serious disfigurement in the name of the Interstate Highway system. Among other strategies, highway planners were proposing to level Federal Hill, build an elevated highway along the Fells Point and Canton waterfronts, and “enhancing” the experience of the Washington Monument by creating a highway scenic loop around Mt. Vernon place.

Historic and beautiful Mount Vernon place in the present foreground I-83 elevated expressway in background.









Baltimoreans worked together to rescue the city from this potential fate thankfully the JFX was forced to end at President Street in downtown. In other cities today they are removing these elevated freeways to claim their waterfronts. If we had built this we would have had something similar to Seattle, Chicago, and Boston (hence Big Dig) which opted for tunnels instead of bridges. 
Proposed and incomplete I-70 extension known as the highway to nowhere now being used for the construction of the proposed red line light rail.






















I-83 today








Today


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## ChrisZwolle

miniviews said:


> http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/...re-lanes-in-the-works-for-west-oahu-commuters
> 
> Completed "H1 Rehab" project in Honolulu now has 4 lanes in each direction with 10 feet widths.
> 
> Underconstruction "H1 PM Contraflow" project:
> - Pearl City viaduct construction to add a PM shoulder lane.
> - Aiea re-striping for a PM shoulder lane.
> - Additional lane into Waipahu/Waikele from H1/H2 split.


These are important upgrades. Honolulu has long been in the top 3 most congested cities in the United States. 

The segment around Downtown that has been widened to eight lanes carries 200,000 vehicles per day, that is a lot even for eight lanes. 

If I understand correctly, the PM Contraflow project;
* eliminated the zipper lane
* thus providing 5 eastbound lanes at all times
* added a 5th permanent lane westbound
* added a 6th shoulder lane westbound

I wonder what the AADT on this stretch is. It could be in the 200,000 - 250,000 range.


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## miniviews

*h1 PM contraflow*

http://www.pmcontraflow.com/overview.html

From an observer, PM contraflow project is strictly to add a shoulder lane for west bound traffic at the Halawa interchange (7 lanes to Pearl City exit) and Pearl City viaduct (6 lanes between Pearl City onramp and Waipahu offramp). In addition 4 lanes to Waikele at H1/H2 split.

There is an AM zipper lane that takes two lanes from west bound traffic with H1 west split down to one lane at the H1/H2 merge. And the morning west bound traffic does backup into Aiea.


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## Nexis

Interstate 10, Houston, Westbound approach at night


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-85/385 interchange, Greenville, SC*

*SCDOT Awards First Act 98 Interstate Improvement Contract 
*

The South Carolina Department of Transportation (SCDOT) has awarded a $231,116,087 contract to Flatiron-Zachry Joint Venture to reconfigure the I-85/I-385 Interchange in Greenville County. The project will improve safety and increase traffic capacity for an estimated 194,000 vehicles per day that utilize the interchange. The I-85/I-385 interchange volumes rank only behind the I-26/I-126 interchange in the Columbia area (202,150 vehicles per day) and the I-26/I-526 interchange in the Charleston area (195,100 vehicles per day). The contract gives the contractor 1035 days to complete the project once a Notice-To-Proceed order is issued by SCDOT.​
full press release: http://info.scdot.org/PressRelease/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=1754


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-22, Birmingham, AL*

*I-22 interchange with I-65 won't be completed until late 2015*

The interchange to connect the new Interstate 22 with Interstate 65 just a few miles north of Birmingham's city center was scheduled to be completed by Oct. 15 of this year.

But according to Brian Davis, third division engineer for the Alabama Department of Transportation, the interchange won't be finished until October 2015.​
Full report: http://www.bizjournals.com/birmingh...change-with-i-65-wont-be-completed-until.html

delayed once again.... I believe it was originally planned to be completed in late 2012 or 2013.


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-66, Centreville, VA*

Road marking mess in Virginia









http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/26360042/lane-markings-i-66-eastbound-near-centreville-va


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-5, Tacoma, WA*

The Interstate 5 / WA-16 / Sprague Avenue interchange in Tacoma, Washington. This was recently constructed.


I-5 SR16 EBNV Sprague onramps by WSDOT, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-69W, Laredo, TX*

In addition to I-69E and I-69C, there will also be an I-69W to Laredo.


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## CNGL

Coming soon: I-69U (F*** you) .

Seriously, they should make something about that I-69 mess. They should renumber two of I-69E, I-69C (which should have been plain I-69) and I-69W, and leave the third brach as I-69. Personally I would change I-69W to I-69, I-69E to an I-37 extension (number the remaining section I-137), and I-69C to US 281. And I-2... leave I-2.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There is no traffic volume to warrant a 200 mile long Interstate Highway in that corridor. Much of US 59 carries between 2,500 and 5,000 vehicles per day. I suspect I-69W will have a far lower priority than I-69E and even I-69C. In the current funding climate (lack thereof) it seems unlikely that I-69W ever gets constructed along its full length.

An alternating passing lane seems like a more cost-effective option of providing 75 mph travel. There are already passing lanes at some locations of US 59 between Laredo and Victoria, and some stretches are even four-lane divided.


----------



## diablo234

ChrisZwolle said:


> There is no traffic volume to warrant a 200 mile long Interstate Highway in that corridor. Much of US 59 carries between 2,500 and 5,000 vehicles per day. I suspect I-69W will have a far lower priority than I-69E and even I-69C. In the current funding climate (lack thereof) it seems unlikely that I-69W ever gets constructed along its full length.
> 
> An alternating passing lane seems like a more cost-effective option of providing 75 mph travel. There are already passing lanes at some locations of US 59 between Laredo and Victoria, and some stretches are even four-lane divided.


Considering that the main purpose of I-69 is to divert border traffic away from the Laredo crossing, I-69W never really made sense to begin with. Once I-69 is fully built from Houston to the Rio Grande Valley (ie McAllen/Brownsville/Harlingen) much of the traffic heading to Laredo is going to be diverted regardless.


----------



## zaphod

I agree with what people are saying.

How did the C and E sections come to be, anyways? You'd think they'd only build one or the other, and then plan a 3-digit route to branch off somewhere around Raymondville. Priority should be the eastern route, since it hits bigger cities IMO.

Also there is that stupid border patrol checkpoint in Sarita, you'd think route planning would keep it as a choke spot without having to build a second one.

The I-2 designation is spiffy though, the roadgeek in me likes that it exists. I also feel like tossing up shields for this is such a political move; maybe in 20 years when federal money for highways barely exists and the project has died or has become a toll road, they'll silently vanish. Speaking of toll roads, Hidalgo County has rather significant plans of their own.


----------



## Luki_SL

> FRANKFORT, Ky. (Aug. 27, 2014) – A project that increased traffic capacity, improved safety and reduced congestion along a major artery in southcentral Kentucky has been recognized with a regional transportation award for coming in under budget.
> 
> *The Interstate 65 widening project in Barren County increased a 5-mile stretch from four lanes to six lanes and reconstructed the Exit 53 interchange. *The project was delivered for about $41 million – about $2.6 million under the contract amount – earning an award in the “Under Budget – Medium” category in the Southeast Regional competition of the America’s Transportation Awards program.
> 
> The award was presented Tuesday at the annual Southeastern Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials (SASHTO) in New Orleans.


http://transportation.ky.gov/Pages/PressReleasePage.aspx?&FilterField1=ID&FilterValue1=99


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kentucky is quite active to get I-65 to six lanes across the state.


----------



## Jschmuck

> Kentucky is quite active to get I-65 to six lanes across the state


much needed, as well as 6-laned I-65 in all of Indiana as this takes most traffic to/from Chicago/Midwest and the south east. I prefer this route over I-75 north of Chattanooga and I-74 because I-75 is too hilly.


----------



## xzmattzx

I-99 is now signed in New York, from the Pennsylvania border to Painted Post (Corning area). I-99 is still not signed between Williamsport and the New York border, and still has the "Future I-99 corridor" signs up.


Northbound










Southbound


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 610, Houston, TX*

The I-610 / US 290 project in Houston. The ultimate configuration will feature 33 lanes between 290 and I-10.


----------



## JimInJersey

In northern New Jersey, USA Interstate 287 acts as an 'outer loop' around the metro NYC area. Near Pompton Lakes, there is a large cut through the hill. It certainly does not fit what most people would picture as "New Jersey". Taken through the windshield of my vintage RV with camera on a GorillaPod, anchored by a rice bag and some 2-lb wrist weights. Canon 6D, Canon 24-105mm lens.


----------



## Kanadzie

That road is pretty spectacular when you think about it... you have the rock cuts and then you practically have "talbruecken" through valleys. It's hard to see from the wheel though...


----------



## Tom 958

ChrisZwolle said:


> The I-610 / US 290 project in Houston. The ultimate configuration will feature 33 lanes between 290 and I-10.


Texas.

*sigh*

At the other end of the spectrum, Georgia DOT has announced that construction will begin in 2016 on rebuilding the I-285/GA 400 interchange. A previous alternative from 2000 or so included CD's, ramp braids, and continuous frontage roads for a total of forty lanes along 285, but the current scheme is for operational improvements only: three left-turn flyovers at 285/400 (one loop ramp will remain), ramp braids, CD's and extended ramp terminals, but with only incidental increases in capacity. Amazingly, the fifty year old bridges carrying Roswell and Ashford-Dunwoody Roads over 285 will remain, though two-lane roadways will be added between the end bents and the abutments. It'll still cost over $1 billion.

Big .pdf drawing of 285


----------



## Exethalion

That new stretch of the 610 between US 290 and I-10; at 33 lanes, will it be the world's widest section of highway?

Also, are the express and managed lanes used that much? Seems most of the infrastructure is to support them free flowing in all directions.


----------



## CNGL

If the US (and especially Texas) were more transit-friendly then that 33 lane section on I-610 won't be needed. In that scenario I think I-610 wouldn't be wider than M-30 in Madrid...


----------



## VoltAmps

CNGL said:


> If the US (and especially Texas) were more transit-friendly then that 33 lane section on I-610 won't be needed. In that scenario I think I-610 wouldn't be wider than M-30 in Madrid...


Go away


----------



## keokiracer

VoltAmps said:


> Go away


How about you go away yourself?

At least come with an argument will ya?

It's a discussion forum, not a go-away-forum


----------



## Penn's Woods

xzmattzx said:


> I-99 is now signed in New York, from the Pennsylvania border to Painted Post (Corning area). I-99 is still not signed between Williamsport and the New York border, and still has the "Future I-99 corridor" signs up.
> 
> 
> Northbound
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Southbound


Is it supposed to end permanently at Painted Post, or will it take over 390 and run up to Rochester?


----------



## desertpunk

*I-285/SR 400

Behold! The Most Expensive Road Project in Georgia History*












> At a crowded public meeting in Dunwoody on Tuesday, state road officials revealed new renderings and information about the revamp of the SR 400/I-285 interchange. The project aims to keep the 400,000 cars that pass through the junction every day moving by adding flyover bridges, access roads and more width to existing bridges. The finished product isn't quite as knotted up as the infamous Spaghetti Junction, but it's close. Four levels of flyovers (Spaghetti Junction has five) will twist over and under one another, and barrier-separated collector-distributor (CD) lanes will be built along both highways. "Braided" ramps will be constructed around Ashford Dunwoody and Roswell roads, and about two miles of improvements would take place between the Glenridge Connector North to Hammond Drive.
> 
> *The interchange improvements, when combined with the Georgia-400 CD lanes project, will leave the state with a bill for around $1.056 billion.*


80 parcels of land (many with houses) will have to be acquired to proceed with this project:


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

I'm guessing the acquisition of property is the reason for the high cost?


----------



## VoltAmps

keokiracer said:


> How about you go away yourself?
> 
> At least come with an argument will ya?
> 
> It's a discussion forum, not a go-away-forum


How are you even supposed to respond/argue with what he says?

"In Europe we have this, in Europe we have that". Gets nauseating after a while


----------



## desertpunk

I-275westcoastfl said:


> I'm guessing the acquisition of property is the reason for the high cost?


No doubt. Some very large developments are slated to go in nearby including what may become the tallest suburban office tower in the US. Land values have skyrocketed in this very desirable area.


----------



## zaphod

It's news to me that that area was very old. I thought from only looking at maps/google it was early post-war residential with a topping of 80s office sprawl? I guess Atlanta was bigger than I thought in the old days. Cool.

How old must the buildings in such an area be to become eligible for historical designation?

Anyways that headline "this will the most expensive road in Georgia history" combined with that rendering must be meant to be ironic; because it's not that impressive looking(but then considering where I'm from, heh)


----------



## Tom 958

zaphod said:


> It's news to me that that area was very old. I thought from only looking at maps/google it was early post-war residential with a topping of 80s office sprawl?


That's exactly what it is.



> How old must the buildings in such an area be to become eligible for historical designation?


About that old, apparently. :nuts: I think it has to do much more with with an abundant supply of lawyers and disposable income in the area than with the historic value of utterly unremarkable '50's subdivisions.



> Anyways that headline "this will the most expensive road in Georgia history" combined with that rendering must be meant to be ironic; because it's not that impressive looking(but then considering where I'm from, heh)


I think it's a case of everything being too damn expensive these days. The required new right of way is clearly marked on the maps, and except for those two midrise '80's office buildings at Peachtree Dunwoody Road, it's in small slivers. Meanwhile, as I noted above, the fifty year old bridges carrying Roswell and Ashford Dunwoody Roads over I-285 will remain, and to me it appears that the ones carrying 285 over Glenridge and Peachtree Dunwoody will, too-- I don't see even incidental widening of those roads, and they've already crammed as many lanes under those bridges as possible. Check out Streetview on Glenridge under 285 and you'll see what I mean.

This scheme represents a huge downscoping from the concepts developed under Revive 285, with two lane HOT roadways in each direction, a transit corridor, and interchanges with room for them. Of course, those concepts are from those halcyon pre-crash days when it was thought that HOT lanes could more or less pay for themselves.


----------



## keokiracer

VoltAmps said:


> How are you even supposed to respond/argue with what he says?
> 
> "In Europe we have this, in Europe we have that". Gets nauseating after a while


Try explaining why it's different in the US... Just an idea...


----------



## JMBasquiat

keokiracer said:


> Try explaining why it's different in the US... Just an idea...


Maybe the person making the initial claim should explain why it's better in Madrid, since apparently that's what he's claiming.


----------



## keokiracer

JMBasquiat said:


> Maybe the person making the initial claim should explain why it's better in Madrid, since apparently that's what he's claiming.


He did. he said there was more Public Transport in madrid. And then as a counter argument you could say that there's good PT in Texas (which tbh there isn't) or you could explain why Public Transport isn't an option in Texas. Which it isn't (or at least less) due to the very big cities with relatively low amount of people per square km/mile. The more people per km² the more effective PT can be. The desnity is what lacks in Texas making PT unviable and roads wider.

Reasoning isn't that difficult, you know...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Most of I-610 West Loop is actually narrower than M-30 in Madrid. It is the most congested stretch of highway in Texas (and apparently no real plans to unclog it).


----------



## diablo234

desertpunk said:


> *I-285/SR 400
> 
> Behold! The Most Expensive Road Project in Georgia History*


I am surprised they did not decide to build a stack interchange on that site similar to the one at I-85/I-285. Those interchanges can take up much less space and can even be shoehorned between properties.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Most of I-610 West Loop is actually narrower than M-30 in Madrid. It is the most congested stretch of highway in Texas (and apparently no real plans to unclog it).


Given the cost of real estate there and the fact that I-610 is surrounded by development including a few high rise buildings and Houston's most prestigious mall, I don't think it would be feasible to expand that road similar to what was done on either I-10 or US 290 just from the cost of appropriating land alone.


----------



## Protteus

Hi guys, does anybody know what are these marks on the road?
I see them quite often when I drive on the freeway.


----------



## keokiracer

Induction loops for traffic management maybe?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They are induction loops to detect traffic. It can be for various reasons, such as traffic counting or detecting traffic that approaches a traffic signal. These look like they were built in after the road was paved. Today's induction loops don't need to be at the surface anymore, if you pave a (new) road, you can't see those loops anymore.


----------



## Kanadzie

keokiracer said:


> He did. he said there was more Public Transport in madrid. And then as a counter argument you could say that there's good PT in Texas (which tbh there isn't) or you could explain why Public Transport isn't an option in Texas. Which it isn't (or at least less) due to the very big cities with relatively low amount of people per square km/mile. The more people per km² the more effective PT can be. The desnity is what lacks in Texas making PT unviable and roads wider.
> 
> Reasoning isn't that difficult, you know...


Or that Texas road department listens to the people who rather drive than use PT


----------



## Innsertnamehere

In Ontario at least the induction sensors at intersections are typically visible as a small black square, with whatever that material is. (tar?)


----------



## divide by zero

WRT to the 610 West Loop in Houston, would it be possible to do what LA did with a few stretches of freeway (eg. I-110 south of downtown) - build more lanes on top of the existing road. Sure it's expensive, but widening seems out of the question. And at least Texas doesn't have to worry about earthquakes.


----------



## zaphod

^^

That is sort of what Dallas is doing to the LBJ freeway right now, and what San Antonio did with some stretches of urban freeway in the 90s/00s? Austin has had a "double decker" section of I-35 for a long time.

Because yeah, that's what the west loop area needs, another decade of construction :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are basically two types of tolled lanes;

* former HOV lanes being converted into HOT lanes
* new construction + HOV lane becoming an express lane (2 express lanes each way).

Houston converted nearly all of their HOV lanes into HOT lanes recently. They have many reversible HOT lanes. 

I don't mind converting HOV lanes to toll lanes. HOV lanes are underutilized and most HOV 2+ lanes are used by families, not reducing the amount of vehicles on the road. This way you'll get better usage of existing capacity. Converting an HOV lane into an HOT lane or even express lane could improve throughput by a few hundred vehicles per hour, maybe even up to a thousand, without having to expand capacity.


----------



## desertpunk

Rush hour Chicago


Waiting for Batman by i46.me, on Flickr


----------



## Road_UK

Beautiful photo!


----------



## siamu maharaj

desertpunk said:


> Rush hour Chicago
> 
> 
> Waiting for Batman by i46.me, on Flickr


Chicago badly needs a highway to bypass this portion, but sadly I don't think any American city will ever see more highways (except those in the South).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-69, Indiana*

Construction of I-69 up to Bloomington, Indiana.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-35E / I-635 LBJ Express, Dallas, TX*

A new construction update video of the massive LBJ Express project. It starts with a timelapse drive across the new elevated toll lanes of I-35E.


----------



## geogregor

Houston:


----------



## Penn's Woods

Road_UK said:


> The only thing I get is New Yorkers complaining about Jersey drivers... Michael, you're originally from NJ, right? This must mean you're a shit driver


New Yorkers are people who wander along New Jersey's highways doing 10 miles below the speed limit in the passing lane. Presumably because either (1) they don't know how to drive at the speed limit because they never have the opportunity in the city or (2) they're lost.


----------



## Road_UK

^^ Same with Germans in Austria and Holland. Tourist-Germans are absolute shit-drivers. Slow and braking for no reason, but when you're driving on their autobahns, they don't even leave one inche of gap behind you...

f*ckin hypocrites...


----------



## Kanadzie

Penn's Woods said:


> New Yorkers are people who wander along New Jersey's highways doing 10 miles below the speed limit in the passing lane. Presumably because either (1) they don't know how to drive at the speed limit because they never have the opportunity in the city or (2) they're lost.


Those "65 MPH zone fines double" signs are pretty scary (and insane!)

then again compare with Michigan and Illinois, "run over a road worker, 126 years jail $395000 fine" or whatever the hell they are at now :lol:


----------



## Tom 958

Tom 958 said:


> I think that the main items are bridge shoulder widths, median barriers and the length
> of entrance ramps. Not too expensive to fix. Of course, the big item will be unTOTSOing the Western Kentucky-Pennyrile
> Parkway interchange.


I found these at the AARoads forum:

Original, rather excessive scheme:










The current scheme, now under construction.: The now-subordinate parkways will enter I-69 from the right, 
but the divergences between I-69 and the parkways will be in the intuitive direction, which I think is a good idea:










A flyover ramp carrying southbound I-69 onto the Purchase Parkway will be built, too. Apparently an early scheme would've 
closed the northern leg of the interchange, which ends at US 60 a short distance away, but the public wasn't at all happy with that:


----------



## Suburbanist

I was reading about some new push to make US-93 into I-11 between Phoenix and Las Vegas.


----------



## EMArg

I don't remember if I've already posted it in this thread, but here it goes: the highway the bus took to go to Boston (departing from the Penn Station), in the last half of the video.


----------



## Nexis

Interstate 5 Slicing up Seattle

Seattle by antmayphoto, on Flickr


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Nice! Picture of the Month.

And "the mountain's out" as I'm told the locals say when it's clear enough to see it (Mount Rainier).


----------



## Dariusb

ChrisZwolle said:


> Traffic on I-10 in West Houston has grown to become the busiest stretch of freeway in Houston in 2012. The AADT east of the Beltway 8 interchange has exploded to 360,000 vehicles per day. Traffic grew by 100,000 vehicles in just 5 years. If current trends continue, it will become the busiest freeway in the U.S. in a year or two, overtaking I-405 near Long Beach, CA.


At that rate it could possibly pass Toronto's 401 for busiest in the world, a scary thought!


----------



## Innsertnamehere

do those numbers include the frontage roads as well? Because the highway itself is only 4+2 tolled.. I struggle to see how that supports 360,000.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^I think the frontage roads are included in that 360,000 vehicles per day.


----------



## diablo234

siamu maharaj said:


> Chicago badly needs a highway to bypass this portion, but sadly I don't think any American city will ever see more highways (except those in the South).


There already is an interstate highway that bypasses this portion. It's called the Tri-State Tollway (I-294).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-355 is another alternate bypass of Chicago. 

Counting from downtown outward, you have 3 north-south freeways along the first 20 miles of urban development (I-90/94, I-294 and I-355). However, there is another 20 miles of urban development west of there with no north-south freeways at all.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-820 / SH 121 - North Tarrant Express, TX*

The express lanes of the massive $ 2.5 billion 'North Tarrant Express' project open to traffic tomorrow, Saturday October 4th. The project is completed 9 months ahead of schedule.

Here are some aerial photos from August 2014:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-82, Washington state*

The Fred G. Redmon Bridge north of Yakima, Washington.

The bridge was opened to traffic on November 2, 1971 and was constructed by Peter Kiewit & Sons, who won the contract with a bid of $4,356,070. The bridge was part of a 2.8-mile (4.5 km) long, $1.7 million segment of the Interstate 82 freeway construction through the area.

At the time it was built, it was the longest concrete arch bridge in the United States, surpassed only by the 866-foot (264 m) Sandö Bridge in Sweden. It was also the highest bridge in Washington.​

Selah Creek Arches by WSDOT, on Flickr


----------



## triodegradable

Cool


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-30 / I-35E, Dallas Horseshoe project*

August 2014 aerial images.


----------



## Nexis

Interstate 5 in near Seattle 

_MG_6831 by prashkan, on Flickr

Interstate 5 meets 90

_MG_6827 by prashkan, on Flickr


----------



## triodegradable

nice


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-95, Baltimore*

The Fort McHenry Tunnel with the Maryland flag.


MDTA Fort McHenry Tunnel New State Flag Onings by TheMDTA, on Flickr


----------



## Penn's Woods

One of the world's coolest flags!

Also, go Orioles!


----------



## triodegradable

cool


----------



## Nexis

New Jersey Turnpike Eastern spur Hackensack River Bridge


New Jersey Turnpike Eastern spur Hackensack River Bridge by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## triodegradable

nice pic


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-75 / US 35, Dayton, OH*

The I-75 / US 35 stack interchange in Dayton, Ohio


----------



## PinPeat

Interstate 405 at LAX ( Los Angeles).










https://www.flickr.com/photos/rivar...vCe-poY51n-p4YQgd-p4LSK4-pkB3SR-pkdiXx-piSeYr


----------



## PinPeat

Interstate I-405 and I-105 Interchange at LAX ( Los Angeles).









https://www.flickr.com/photos/13787...jkV-oZiLr5-oGR6r5-oGQQHr-oGJTmW-oYyVLX-oXEmjF


----------



## geogregor

More Houston freeways:


----------



## geogregor




----------



## triodegradable

nice pics


----------



## siamu maharaj

PinPeat said:


> Interstate 405 at LAX ( Los Angeles).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/rivar...vCe-poY51n-p4YQgd-p4LSK4-pkB3SR-pkdiXx-piSeYr


Beautiful!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

triodegradable said:


> Cool





triodegradable said:


> nice





triodegradable said:


> cool





triodegradable said:


> nice pic





triodegradable said:


> nice pics


I hope you can add some more this thread than just 'nice'?


----------



## Road_UK

He did, he also said "cool".


----------



## PinPeat

San Francisco, CA.










https://www.flickr.com/photos/ml_ka...TWE-kHBAyV-kHCSqU-kFNMLz-kwWsx2-kvuWBX-kvuYaB


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-295, Maine*

I stumbled upon this toll plaza on the northern end of Interstate 295 in Maine, just before the I-95 interchange. The toll plaza utilizes an abandoned bridge of the former interchange.


----------



## dan96kid

Nice way to recycle a bit of old infrastructure


----------



## geogregor

More Houston freeways:













































Some examples of signage connected to hurricane evacuation plans:



























I like the fact they thought about placing rumble strip in the middle of the hard shoulder, right between the wheels of vehicles using it during evacuation.








CDN.


----------



## PinPeat

Los Angeles by radekhofman, on Flickr


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Very nice pictures, but more specific locations would be interesting, if you know them.

:cheers:


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> I stumbled upon this toll plaza on the northern end of Interstate 295 in Maine, just before the I-95 interchange. The toll plaza utilizes an abandoned bridge of the former interchange.


I stumbled on it in person last Sunday. 
(Well, passed through it. Didn't realize that it was an abandoned bridge, or anything. But that reminds me that there are signs on the Maine Turnpike informing people that it's a "National Civil Engineering Landmark," or something like that, opened in 1947. (I think it was opened in '47 from the southern terminus to Falmouth, just north of Portland; what is now called the Falmouth Spur was the last few miles of it. Extension to Augusta came later.)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-64, Daniel Boone Bridge, MO*

The 1935 span of the Daniel Boone Bridge in suburban St. Louis will be replaced by a 4-lane bridge for eastbound traffic.


D5856_CM_R2-340 by MoDOT Photos, on 
Flickr


D5856_CM_R2-320 by MoDOT Photos, on Flickr


D5856_CM_R2-322 by MoDOT Photos, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel Manhattan Appoarch


Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel Manhattan Appoarch by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel Manhattan Appoarch by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel Manhattan Portal by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## PinPeat

Washington State.
The demolition of the R.H. Thomson "Ramps to Nowhere" has begun by WSDOT, on Flickr


----------



## PinPeat

going to Las Vegas by LiamOasis89, on Flickr


----------



## PinPeat

Portland Freeway at Twilight by David Gn Photography, on Flickr


----------



## PinPeat

Portland by taestell, on Flickr


----------



## PinPeat

IMG_8821 by carstengp, on Flickr


----------



## PinPeat

RAMPS TO AND FRO-18633- by Terry Frederic, on Flickr


----------



## PinPeat

Seattle Skyline Sunset by Patrick Lundgren, on Flickr


----------



## miumiuwonwon

Dear PinPeat,
Please DO NOT post any postcards here. We need more details. Thank you!
Justin


----------



## hacci

The Katy freeway of Houston is one of the Best ones of the city.


----------



## PinPeat

on Interstate 5 between Bakersfield and Los Angeles, decisions on lane choices are required at times. Generally, there is not much of a warning.
The Right Choice? by davidseibold, on Flickr


----------



## PinPeat

798 MTA Gold Line Ft. Ext. Looking North On Santa Anita 20140206 AKW

798 MTA Gold Line Ft. Ext. Looking North On Santa Anita 20140206 AKW by Metro Transportation Library and Archive, on Flickr


----------



## Luki_SL

Botev1912 said:


> speeding tickets in Montana are/were $20.


If you drive very fast it`s still $20 ? There is no higher speeding tickets ?


----------



## triodegradable

Cool :tongue2:


----------



## Botev1912

Luki_SL said:


> If you drive very fast it`s still $20 ? There is no higher speeding tickets ?


I don't know that.


----------



## Kanadzie

Luki_SL said:


> If you drive very fast it`s still $20 ? There is no higher speeding tickets ?


AFAIK but I think it is more like $70 now

Don't forget, in Montana between 1995 - 2000 approx, speed limits were German-style "reasonable and prudent" :banana: It's very big and empty place...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-25, Colorado*

An 11 mile segment of I-25 has been widened to six lanes between Colorado Springs and Monument. They celebrated the opening of the expanded highway today.


----------



## Nexis

US 53 and I-35 in Duluth,Minnesota


Can-of-Worms by Missabe Road, on Flickr


----------



## siamu maharaj

Nexis said:


> US 53 and I-35 in Duluth,Minnesota
> 
> 
> Can-of-Worms by Missabe Road, on Flickr


What's going on in there in the middle of that interchange?


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Reminds me of this oddity in New Jersey:

https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.259969,-74.845326&spn=0.006116,0.011362&t=h&z=17


----------



## Kanadzie

siamu maharaj said:


> What's going on in there in the middle of that interchange?


they spent so much money on that elevated they couldn't pass one road 12 feet higher than the other to avoid the crash zone :bash:


----------



## Suburbanist

Are there any plans to upgrade MN-61 to become an extension of I-35 and then link it with a Canadian segment to Thunder Bay.


----------



## sonysnob

^ There are not. Traffic volumes are pretty light on Highway 61 north of Duluth to Thunder Bay.


----------



## Ingsoc75

During the 55-65 mph federal limits (1974-1995), Montana had a 'energy wasting' charge of $5. 

This 'energy wasting' charge was Montana's way of getting around the federal speed limit. You got pulled over for speeding, give the officer five dollars and off you went!

Motorists would have a stash of five dollar bills in their glove compartments to pay for this 'energy wasting charge'.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

sonysnob said:


> ^ There are not. Traffic volumes are pretty light on Highway 61 north of Duluth to Thunder Bay.


It drops under 10,000 vehicles per day as soon as you leave Duluth, even though it is a four-lane highway to Two Harbors. Most of the route carries 3,000 - 4,000 vehicles per day, but 1,500 vehicles per day closer to the Canadian border.


----------



## Skyckcty

Koesj said:


> "The autobahn"? Which one, and where exactly? What was the time of day, and did you pass it on a workday, the weekend, or a holiday?
> 
> What part of the US are you comparing that particular stretch of the Autobahn to? Rural Wyoming? The Katy Freeway in Houston?


Long time ago late 90's, my German friend and I drove around. Koln, Dusseldorf, Pennigsehl, Paderborn, Berlin, Hamburg....


----------



## Koesj

Skyckcty said:


> Long time ago late 90's, my German friend and I drove around. Koln, Dusseldorf, Pennigsehl, Paderborn, Berlin, Hamburg....


I guess you were lucky then, check out typical traffic at 8AM or 5PM around places like Cologne/Düsseldorf, Hamburg, or Berlin and you'll see that roads and freeways around those cities can be pretty busy. Most of the time even rush hour doesn't produce total gridlock but there aren't many US cities that suffer from totally horrendous traffic either. I found Atlanta well traversable after 8PM or on a Saturday for example.

The  INRIX Scorecard is a pretty decent tool with which you can compare traffic 'severity' between different (and often disparate) cities, and you'll see that there are a number of IMO (internationally) underreported places that suffer from big delays: Belgium, Austin, Stuttgart, etc.


----------



## Skyckcty

Koesj said:


> I guess you were lucky then, check out typical traffic at 8AM or 5PM around places like Cologne/Düsseldorf, Hamburg, or Berlin and you'll see that roads and freeways around those cities can be pretty busy. Most of the time even rush hour doesn't produce total gridlock but there aren't many US cities that suffer from totally horrendous traffic either. I found Atlanta well traversable after 8PM or on a Saturday for example.
> 
> The INRIX Scorecard is a pretty decent tool with which you can compare traffic 'severity' between different (and often disparate) cities, and you'll see that there are a number of IMO (internationally) underreported places that suffer from big delays: Belgium, Austin, Stuttgart, etc.


 
I've seen it and at the moment if you google autobahn on the cities I mentioned, it will post images at various times of the day. Lots of empty autobahn. Not saying you don't have traffic congestion.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Texas*

*Voters pass Prop 1, securing billions in funding for Texas roads*

Taxes from the oil and gas industry will be a new source of revenue for cash-strapped Texas roads after voters overwhelmingly approved Proposition 1 Tuesday night.

The measure passed with 80 percent of the vote with 46 percent of the state's precincts reporting.​
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/n...pass-prop-1-securing-billions-in-funding.html

website: http://movetexasforward.com/


----------



## Koesj

Skyckcty said:


> I've seen it and at the moment if you google autobahn on the cities I mentioned, it will post images at various times of the day. Lots of empty autobahn. Not saying you don't have traffic congestion.


I don't live there, so I don't _particularly_ care whether or not freeways in Germany are empty, but I'd suggest we stick to the facts for accuracy's sake.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-405 West County Connectors, California*

*First WCC Carpool Link Set to Open on Friday, November 7*

The carpool connector allowing drivers to directly transition from the carpool lane on the southbound I-405 to the carpool lane on the eastbound SR-22 is expected to open by 5 a.m. on Friday, November 7. This major milestone will alleviate the merging and weaving that was previously necessary for carpoolers to get from one freeway to the other.

This is the first link in *a series of connectors* to open as part of the WCC project. Over the next few weeks, crews will finish restriping the freeway in order to accommodate the remaining new carpool connectors. Once the freeway is restriped, there will be two carpool lanes in both directions of the I-405 between the SR-22 and the I-605. The remaining carpool connectors are tentatively scheduled to open in early December.​
http://www.octa.net/Freeways-and-Streets/Garden-Grove-Freeway-(SR-22)/West-County-Connectors/

This project also widened the busiest segment of I-405 from 14 to 16 lanes.


----------



## mcarling

Luki_SL said:


> If you drive very fast it`s still $20 ? There is no higher speeding tickets ?


For extreme speeds (given the vehicle, conditions, etc.) there is the possibility of being arrested for reckless driving.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Texas seems to be pushing their part of I-69 rather strong. Though they lack funding to quickly build long stretches of new Interstate Highway. 

There are at least studies in all the other states where I-69 will run through. But most of it has been geared towards renumbering or upgrading existing highways. There have been done studies (possibly even an EIS) for the Mississippi River Bridge. From the looks of it, the Arkansas section seems to have the lowest priority, pretty much because it doesn't serve any larger cities and there is no existing corridor which could be easily upgraded like in Texas or Tennessee.


----------



## PinPeat

*I-5 widening project will connect L.A. to Orange County in a bigger way*



























http://www.sgvtribune.com/general-n...l-connect-la-to-orange-county-in-a-bigger-way


----------



## CNGL

Today AASHTO is meeting, and a new round of changes is going to be made. On AARoads they are expecting some (future) I-11 in AZ, I-49 in LA, I-69 in TX, and I-885 in NC, but as usual surprises can come up, like I-2.

And with that I-69 mess in Southern Texas, someone proposed designate I-69U, I-69EIEIO and -69+I, and I proposed I-√69 and I-log69.


----------



## AsHalt

CNGL said:


> Today AASHTO is meeting, and a new round of changes is going to be made. On AARoads they are expecting some (future) I-11 in AZ, I-49 in LA, I-69 in TX, and I-885 in NC, but as usual surprises can come up, like I-2.
> 
> And with that I-69 mess in Southern Texas, someone proposed designate I-69U, I-69EIEIO and -69+I, and I proposed I-√69 and I-log69.


Too much jecking off I say...


----------



## sotonsi

CNGL said:


> I-69EIEIO


That's an upgrade to Farm to Market Road 3043


----------



## diablo234

ChrisZwolle said:


> Texas seems to be pushing their part of I-69 rather strong. Though they lack funding to quickly build long stretches of new Interstate Highway.
> 
> There are at least studies in all the other states where I-69 will run through. But most of it has been geared towards renumbering or upgrading existing highways. There have been done studies (possibly even an EIS) for the Mississippi River Bridge. From the looks of it, the Arkansas section seems to have the lowest priority, pretty much because it doesn't serve any larger cities and there is no existing corridor which could be easily upgraded like in Texas or Tennessee.


Texas is lucky in the sense that much of the right of way was already up to interstate standards to begin with in regards to the urban areas and with elsewhere along the route land values are low enough that property acquisition should not present any problems. That being said I think they should ditch the suffix routes and instead just have I-69 run directly to either McAllen or Bownsville.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-71, Colombus - Cleveland, OH*

*It's a holiday miracle! State widens last four-lane stretch of I-71 between Columbus and Cleveland*

*The final four-lane stretch of I-71 between Columbus and Cleveland has been widened to six just in time for the holidays. *

The Ohio Department of Transportation has removed construction barrels that segregated a new third lane in each direction on an 11-mile stretch of the highway between Rt. 61 and Rt. 95 in Morrow County, opening it for travel.​
Full report: http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...between-Columbus-and-Cleveland-completed.html


----------



## JohnFlint1985

ChrisZwolle said:


> *Five-year construction project on I-895 north of Harbor Tunnel to begin 2016*
> 
> *$290 million construction project to replace a large elevated section of Interstate 895 north of the Harbor Tunnel will begin in 2016 and last five years — causing considerable traffic congestion in the process.*
> 
> The section, known as the Canton Viaduct, was first targeted for replacement years ago, but the project languished amid limited budgets, toll battles and shifting notions on the design for reconstruction.
> 
> (...)
> 
> The 60-year-old elevated highway is the MdTA's last piece of infrastructure considered structurally deficient. It requires frequent maintenance and portions need upgrades to meet new highway safety standards, the MdTA said.​
> Full report: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-895-construction-20141113-story.html
> 
> $ 290 million to replace a ¾ mile long bridge... :nuts:
> 
> I wonder if it isn't viable to shut the highway down entirely and replace it in 2 years instead of 5. Sure, it would cause traffic headaches, but so will the current plan.


don't quote on me, but I heard that there are 2 main reasons for the high price tag
1. the soil there is simply former meadow or a bog, so it is pretty difficult to build on it something massive. it adds to the coasts considerably.

2. local union which is supposed to do this, is playing a tough game with the price, so there is no other way but to pay what they ask.


----------



## Nexis

*Interstate 5 in Downtown Seattle​*Seattle, Washington by antmayphoto, on Flickr


----------



## BriedisUnIzlietne

JohnFlint1985 said:


> don't quote on me, but I heard that there are 2 main reasons for the high price tag
> 2. local union which is supposed to do this, is playing a tough game with the price, so there is no other way but to pay what they ask.


Can't they like prefabricate everything outside the local union's influence area and use labour from a different state or something?


----------



## rob268

I-35 in Iowa


----------



## GdlMty

The states that were of Mexico now have an impressive infrastructure (California, Texas, Utah, Nevada, Colorado and more), I not want to imagine what it would be if they were Mexican states, our rulers have always been terrible.


----------



## sotonsi

Here's the AASHTO route numbering meeting's decisions
http://route.transportation.org/Documents/USRN Report to SCOH AM2014.pdf

NJ and PA withdrew something about I-95, and Illinois asked for the number I-490 for the unbuilt O'Hare West Bypass. Plus a few US route bypasses and some Bike Route stuff.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Interesting. Never seen that sort of thing before. But whatever it is that was withdrawn about 95, it's being resubmitted at a later date (it says), so I guess in the long run, it's a wash.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Top 5 Most Traveled Interstates by Federal Highway Administration (FHWA), on Flickr


----------



## 00Zy99

Penn's Woods said:


> Interesting. Never seen that sort of thing before. But whatever it is that was withdrawn about 95, it's being resubmitted at a later date (it says), so I guess in the long run, it's a wash.


It's an application to re-route I-95 onto the PA Turnpike from a new interchange over to New Jersey, taking it off of the Scudder's Falls Bridge.

Since the interchange is running behind schedule, I'm guessing they're going for a delay.


----------



## triodegradable

Cool


----------



## Innsertnamehere

ChrisZwolle said:


> Top 5 Most Traveled Interstates by Federal Highway Administration (FHWA), on Flickr


Does that list come as any sort of surprise? The first 4 on that list likely would have been my first 4 guesses.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-405 West County Connectors, California*

The West County Connectors project in California is now practically completed. The new HOV ramps will open soon.

I-405 features 8 lanes in each direction between CA-22 and I-605.


----------



## Penn's Woods

So that's seven passing lanes each way? :troll:


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Which Turnpike? And you have to get to it.

From Center City Philadelphia* to get to the (New Jersey) Turnpike without a traffic light, you have to start out heading for Atlantic City, then use 295 north to 195 east to the Turnpike.

To get to the Pennsylvania Turnpike, you'd have to go about 15 miles out the Schuylkill to I-476 north.

All because of the missing connection between the Pennsylvania Turnpike and I-95 (and ultimately because of the gap in 95 through central New Jersey, where local opposition stopped it). Or if you prefer, because of the missing connection between NJ 42 and the New Jersey Turnpike.

*That's what we call downtown.

PS: What lights on 78...at the Holland Tunnel approach (which is Jersey City, not Newark)? That's no problem; just take the Lincoln.


----------



## diablo234

I always thought it was sort of stupid that there were no real plans to construct interchanges at several key junctions on the Pennsylvania Turnpike (notably between the PA Turnpike and I-99 in Bedford, I-70 in Breezewood, I-81 in Carlise, and I-95) forcing drivers to use local roadways to connect between two interstates, which in turn causes unneeded traffic congestion.

Only until recently has there been a relatively strong effort to construct a grade separated interchange at the PA Turnpike/I-95. Even other toll roads that were built roughly around the same time such as the New York Thruway, Ohio Turnpike, Maine Turnpike, Massachusetts Turnpike, New Jersey Turnpike had the foresight to build interchanges with other interstates to make connections more seemless.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^The New Jersey Turnpike does not have an interchange with NJ 42 (which becomes I-76 a couple of miles north of the Turnpike at 295). For that matter, its connector to the Pennsylvania Turnpike is missing an interchange with 295.

The Ohio Turnpike does not have an interchange with 271. And it didn't have interchanges with 75 until 1991 and with 77 until 2001.

Massachusetts Turnpike has no interchange with 391.

I don't know what interstates the Maine Turnpike crosses that weren't expressly built to connect to it, if that make sense.

In any case, if the toll roads were built before the Interstates were even conceived of (the segment of the Pennsylvania Turnpike that crosses 99, 70 at Breezewood and 81 was opened in 1940), are the missing interchanges a matter of lack of foresight on their part?


----------



## Kanadzie

But most of these are just stupid - there are grade separations but not ramps, which is just inexcusable (the problem is obvious to any planner or guy working on the construction)


----------



## Penn's Woods

Supposedly the New Jersey Turnpike/42 connection isn't doable. Wetlands or something.


----------



## CollegeBoy

How come the entire New Jersey Turnpike isn't I-95?


----------



## Penn's Woods

Because 95 goes through Philadelphia. It was supposed to continue up through the middle of New Jersey to 287 and get onto the Turnpike in Edison. It's not our fault local opposition up there stopped it.


----------



## CollegeBoy

Penn's Woods said:


> Because 95 goes through Philadelphia. It was supposed to continue up through the middle of New Jersey to 287 and get onto the Turnpike in Edison. It's not our fault local opposition up there stopped it.


Okay, thanks for the information.


----------



## JimInJersey

It's also kinda silly that, from the Delaware Memorial Bridge, going north on either I-295 or the NJ Turnpike, there's no direct connection to go EAST down the AC expressway to Atlantic City. You can loop around, go west towards Philly and make about 7 left turns to get headed east again, but one would think a simple ramp from NB to EB would be pretty simple to do...instead, everybody takes Route 40, which is a killer road, two lanes, full of cows and tractors and semis going 70mph. Dumb.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^OT, but how are you enjoying the "blizzard"?

(Yes, I know it wasn't supposed to be a blizzard here, but neither were we supposed to have no accumulation yet as of 4:30 p.m. :bash: )


----------



## 00Zy99

I heard accumulation predicted this morning.


----------



## Penn's Woods

We (Philadelphia, downtown) were supposed to have four inches or more by now, depending which forecast was right.

We've got nothing, at least what I can see out of my window. Just a little dusting on sidewalks in the parts where no one walks.

Now, that works for me because I've got a couple of things to do on the way home, but I was looking forward to staying home tomorrow.


----------



## Nexis

delete


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Not an Interstate.

But no more off-topic than snowstorms.


----------



## JimInJersey

Our interstates here in Salem County did not get any appreciable snow. In fact, in some places, the salt is thicker than the snow.


----------



## Nexis

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^Not an Interstate.
> 
> But no more off-topic than snowstorms.


Opps...


----------



## Penn's Woods

JimInJersey said:


> Our interstates here in Salem County did not get any appreciable snow. In fact, in some places, the salt is thicker than the snow.


Good attempt to get back on topic, but since when does Salem County have Interstates, plural? :jk:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-30 / I-35E, Dallas Horseshoe project*

The Dallas Horseshoe Project, January aerial update.


----------



## JimInJersey

Penn's Woods said:


> Good attempt to get back on topic, but since when does Salem County have Interstates, plural? :jk:


Well, does the NJTP count? If not, then we're screwed. :banana:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Tampa Bay Express*

A network of tolled express lanes is planned for Tampa Bay.

http://www.tampabayexpress.com/


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-22, Birmingham, AL*

The I-22 / I-65 interchange in Birmingham, Alabama is beginning to take shape.





































More photos: http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2015/02/interstate_65_plan_for_heavy_m.html


----------



## [atomic]

^^
I-22 was pretty much finished 5 years ago, just the interchange with I-65 was missing. What was the issue here? land acquisition?


----------



## Jschmuck

^^ it was reported a few months ago by Chriszwolle that the contractor messed some measurement up with one of the bridges, and the project was delayed about a year I think.


----------



## desertpunk

*Details Emerge for $1B, GDOT-Orchestrated Traffic Jam*












> The Georgia Department of Transportation has announced that the largest project in Georgia highway history will kick off sometime in late 2016, according to a report by the Northside Neighbor. Estimated to cost just shy of $1 billion, GDOT expects the revamp of the Interstate 285/Ga. Highway 400 interchange to take about three long, long years. Not confined to the immediate vicinity of the interchange in Sandy Springs, work will stretch along more than four miles of I-285 and more than a mile of Ga. 400. The project promises some relief from the persistent traffic woes of the area by first causing a three-year-long traffic jam. That prolonged headache could make whatever happens in the end seem downright joyous. For a little while, at least.
> 
> [...]


----------



## Tom 958

^^ There are a few changes since we last visited this project a few months ago. The biggest is to the north at 400 and Abernathy Road. Since the project was first proposed in the late '90's, that interchange had been a SPUI, but the latest iteration changes it to a DDI, The GDOT people (I attended the public meeting) said that the DDI led to better traffic flow. Here's a photo-- north is to the right:











The loop ramp is existing and will be removed. If you look closely, you can see that the 400 southbound to Abernathy westbound movement is three lanes, but the return movement is only one. WTF?

Back on the 285 part, a point was made that except for the ones over Lake Forrest Drive, the bridges carrying I-285 will remain in their currect configuration, not even widened in situ (though decks will be replaced). 

Sorry for the blurry photo-- I drank a Mountain Dew before the meeting, and my hands may have been vibrating.


----------



## mcarling

*Widening I-5 in Portland*

Portland Oregon traffic suffers a severe bottleneck as I-5 narrows from 2x3 to 2x2 for a few miles between I-405 and I-84. In late 2012, first the Portland City Council and then the Oregon Transportation Commission unanimously approved a plan to widen I-5 to 2x3 plus a hard shoulder wide enough to be used as an emergency lane and to rebuild the one set of exits and entrances between I-405 and I-84. The plan is called the I-5 Broadway/Weidler Plan, named after the streets which interconnect.

Funding had been held up by the much more expensive Columbia River Crossing project, which has since been cancelled. I have not been able to find any information newer than this article: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/04/test_headline.html

Does anyone have any more recent information about the state of this project?


----------



## myosh_tino

mcarling said:


> Portland Oregon traffic suffers a severe bottleneck as I-5 narrows from 2x3 to 2x2 for a few miles between I-405 and I-84. In late 2012, first the Portland City Council and then the Oregon Transportation Commission unanimously approved a plan to widen I-5 to 2x3 plus a hard shoulder wide enough to be used as an emergency lane and to rebuild the one set of exits and entrances between I-405 and I-84. The plan is called the I-5 Broadway/Weidler Plan, named after the streets which interconnect.
> 
> Funding had been held up by the much more expensive Columbia River Crossing project, which has since been cancelled. I have not been able to find any information newer than this article: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/04/test_headline.html
> 
> Does anyone have any more recent information about the state of this project?


Might I recommend you post this on the AARoads Northwest Regional board although you'll need to sign-up to become a member there. The AARoads Forum is more U.S.-centric while there's certainly more of an international flavor here.


----------



## siamu maharaj

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^What I meant was, that people keep saying that driving more slowly doesn't actually save fuel.


It certainly does. I used to get 26 mph on highway on my Accord driving around 75-80mph. It started making sound above 65 so I drove in the 60-65 mph range. I got 33 mpg (identical driving conditions).

You don't even need empirical evidence. This is basic physics - drag goes up by square.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ drag goes up by square, but the engine efficiency goes up with higher load

Example driving at 60 MPH is much more economical than 20 MPH, the increase of efficiency is more than the increase in energy consumption

But the two curves probably cross typically around 45 mph unless the car is very aerodynamic or has a very large engine...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Lower speed limits don't have that much effect on fuel efficiency, unless it is very strictly enforced. A key point is that the lower speed limit is not followed by drivers. They lowered the speed limits in Dallas and Houston within a 50 mile radius, but fuel consumption did not materially reduce because the lower speed limits were ignored. The average speed went down by 2 mph.


----------



## Towersville

From my last trip

*Raleigh - Durham NC*





*Miami*





​


----------



## Tom 958

^^ Note to humanity: _Do not_ paint Jersey barriers baby blue! hno:


----------



## Towersville

*Miami - I-95* 













I do not know if this one is a Intestate Hgwy

​


----------



## Mirror's Edge

Tom 958 said:


> ^^ Note to humanity: _Do not_ paint Jersey barriers baby blue! hno:


Turquoise.

And it's not that bad actually, Miami can pull it off.


----------



## goldbough

Towersville said:


> *Miami - I-95*
> 
> 
> 
> I do not know if this one is a Intestate Hgwy
> 
> ​


I'm not sure which photo you're referring to when you say you're not sure if it's an Interstate Highway. I used Google street view and determined that the first photo was taken while on Florida State Road 836 (map) approaching Interstate 395. The second photo was on Interstate 395 (map) east of I-95.


----------



## -Valentino-

So sad that America still uses imperial units :/


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Uh-oh....


----------



## geogregor

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^Uh-oh....


Newbie on this forum, hopefully nobody will bother with responding.

He makes weird comments not only here.

Check this:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=121607041&postcount=3001


----------



## Suburbanist

Is I-70 in Utah still a black hole in terms of cell phone signal availability?

What about this one
No Services on Interstate 70 for the next 106 miles (170 km) with this blue roadside sign located at Green River, Utah. by RaymondYu, on Flickr


----------



## keokiracer

I'm pretty sure services indicates rest areas, gas stations etc and not cell phone signal.


----------



## CollegeBoy

Metric stinks...


----------



## keokiracer

CollegeBoy said:


> Metric stinks...


Oh yeah? Well.... Your mum stinks!

(same type of argument, as in that it's not an argument but similar to what an 8-year old does when he doesn't get what he wants)



Also thanks for everyone for swiftly giving up on this strategy


geogregor said:


> Newbie on this forum, hopefully nobody will bother with responding.


Which is obviously what one should do when someone (in this case Valentino) posts a not even mildly on-topic remark that comes pretty damn close to trolling. Just keep feeding the troll. As we all know that feeding them will make them stop. 
Oh, wait...hno:


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^I wouldn't assume he's a troll...he doesn't know that subject's been done to death. (And is it really any more off topic on a thread about U.S. roads than any critique of signage on any other roads thread?)

For the record, the reason I jokingly suggested last week on I-forget-what thread that Valentino was Autoputevi kan Hobi's Canadian cousin was not to pick on either of them, but because the way some people were responding to Valentino reminded me of the way some people responded to AkH at first.


----------



## Penn's Woods

keokiracer said:


> I'm pretty sure services indicates rest areas, gas stations etc and not cell phone signal.


True, except since toll-free interstates don't have gas stations on them, I'd take it as meaning that there's nothing - gas stations, food places - at the exits. I could be wrong, though....

(For that matter, I'm not sure a rest area - place to park with toilets, drinking water, perhaps picnic tables, perhaps vending machines - would count as a "service.")


----------



## mcarling

Penn's Woods said:


> True, except since toll-free interstates don't have gas stations on them, I'd take it as meaning that there's nothing - gas stations, food places - at the exits. I could be wrong, though....


What??? Many toll-free interstates have gas stations and fast food adjacent to the exits.


----------



## 00Zy99

Connecticut Turnpike comes to mind for free highway with rest areas near food exits.


----------



## Penn's Woods

mcarling said:


> What??? Many toll-free interstates have gas stations and fast food adjacent to the exits.





00Zy99 said:


> Connecticut Turnpike comes to mind for free highway with rest areas near food exits.


Toll-free Interstates do not (generally) have service areas like in Europe, with restaurants, shops and so on, actually on the roadway. (Toll roads do, and they're called "service areas.") That's what I'm saying. This is because there was concern in Congress at the time the Interstate legislation was being considered that small towns that were reliant on people passing through might lose business. An American "rest area" includes toilets, drinking water, maybe picnic tables, maybe vending machines. In that context, a "No Services next 106 Miles" on a toll-free Interstate probably means there's nothing even at the exits (because that's a very remote area). (It might mean there are no rest areas - no place to take a leak - but my guess is it's the no-services-at-exits thing. Particularly since you usually have blue signs approaching exits telling you what gas stations, what restaurants, what hotels and so on are at or near the exits.)

The Connecticut Turnpike is an exception because it used to be a toll road; it wasn't built with Interstate funding. Toll roads mostly do have service areas, so people don't have to get off for food or gas and then pay a toll to get back on.


----------



## CollegeBoy

Maryland and Chesapeake House on I-95 immediately come to mind.


----------



## Kanadzie

Penn's Woods said:


> Toll-free Interstates do not (generally) have service areas like in Europe, with restaurants, shops and so on, actually on the roadway. (Toll roads do, and they're called "service areas.") That's what I'm saying. This is because there was concern in Congress at the time the Interstate legislation was being considered that small towns that were reliant on people passing through might lose business. An American "rest area" includes toilets, drinking water, maybe picnic tables, maybe vending machines. In that context, a "No Services next 106 Miles" on a toll-free Interstate probably means there's nothing even at the exits (because that's a very remote area). (It might mean there are no rest areas - no place to take a leak - but my guess is it's the no-services-at-exits thing. Particularly since you usually have blue signs approaching exits telling you what gas stations, what restaurants, what hotels and so on are at or near the exits.)
> 
> The Connecticut Turnpike is an exception because it used to be a toll road; it wasn't built with Interstate funding. Toll roads mostly do have service areas, so people don't have to get off for food or gas and then pay a toll to get back on.


Definitely "no services" sign means NOTHING nearby from any exit, not no "service plaza" government junk :lol: This sign is usually placed before the exit with a gas station nearby.

I forget what the standard is for that sign. I want to say in Quebec it means nothing within 10 km of any exit. But I am not sure. I like the Quebec standard of this sign better though, it is a fuel pump and then "1 and 100 km" to indicate the next station and the one after.


----------



## Suburbanist

My question was actually concerning cell phone service, the coincidence with "no service" sign was just that. I know that "no services" meant no facilities like gas, restaurants and the like. I was still wondering about cell phone service because it is much-used resource by commercial fleets to track and manage their vehicles.


----------



## Kanadzie

it used to be common to lose cell service but it is rare now

But Utah is really deserted, it could be possible...


----------



## sonysnob

Suburbanist said:


> My question was actually concerning cell phone service, the coincidence with "no service" sign was just that. I know that "no services" meant no facilities like gas, restaurants and the like. I was still wondering about cell phone service because it is much-used resource by commercial fleets to track and manage their vehicles.


I think there are sections of major interstate in Utah that lack cell service. I don't think I had cell service for much of I-70 through Utah when I was out that way last year.


----------



## diablo234

CollegeBoy said:


> Maryland and Chesapeake House on I-95 immediately come to mind.


That section of I-95 is technically considered to be part of a toll road (with the toll plaza located after the Susquehanna River Bridge heading north). Which is why it has a rest area with a gas station/restaurants.



Kanadzie said:


> it used to be common to lose cell service but it is rare now
> 
> But Utah is really deserted, it could be possible...


That stretch of I-70 between Richfield and Green River isn't near any populated towns/settlements so I would imagine that it would be hard to recieve any cell service there.


----------



## Penn's Woods

CollegeBoy said:


> Maryland and Chesapeake House on I-95 immediately come to mind.


The segment from about White Marsh to the Delaware line is technically a toll road, even if the only toll is collected at the Susquehanna bridge.

EDIT: As I see Diablo's already said.


----------



## JimInJersey

I've driven a LOT of Interstate, including much of the "tolled" Interstates like parts of I-95, the PA Turnpike (I-76), and NY's Thruway. I can think of NO places where there are 'rest areas' of any more than rudimentary design on the 'free' interstates, whereas there are on-route rest areas on the PA Turnpike, the NY State Thruway, and so on. On the 'freebies', you need to get off at an exit to do almost ANYTHING more than sit at a picnic table or use a porta-potti.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Welcome Centers. I do like a good Welcome Center. Even if your state (and my native state) apparently has none. (Actually, now that I think of it there's one at the top of the Garden State Parkway. But it was closed the last time I was there, about 6 p.m. on an October Wednesday.)

(A Welcome Center is a tourist-information center. Since promotion of tourism is a state responsibility, you'll usually find them at the first rest area in a "new" state.)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Welcome Centers are rare if not non-existent at European borders (along motorways). Another interesting difference are the weigh stations or 'scales'. They are common near state lines, but are rare in Europe. Some countries operate 'weigh-in-motion' sites though, but there is only very limited enforcement. Then you'll see some fruit inspection stations at the California and Florida state lines.


----------



## Penn's Woods

I've hardly ever seen a weigh station that was actually operating, though....


----------



## 00Zy99

Penn's Woods said:


> I've hardly ever seen a weigh station that was actually operating, though....


Same here.

Most of them look completely abandoned. Maybe one or two vehicles mysteriously lingering around, but that's it.


----------



## diablo234

ChrisZwolle said:


> Welcome Centers are rare if not non-existent at European borders (along motorways). Another interesting difference are the weigh stations or 'scales'. They are common near state lines, but are rare in Europe. Some countries operate 'weigh-in-motion' sites though, but there is only very limited enforcement. Then you'll see some fruit inspection stations at the California and Florida state lines.


There are also inspection stations along interstates in Texas although those are primarily used for livestock/poultry.


----------



## Suburbanist

Are there Welcome Centers in New England, where states are small and easily traveled across?


----------



## Penn's Woods

Connecticut has 'em; the Northern New England states that live on tourism certainly have 'em; in Massachusetts, they seem to be run by local tourism promotion boards rather than the state; there was one in Rhode Island in 2011 that I think I read might have shut down since. Between the Internet and state finances, state employees giving away free paper tourist information may be getting harder to justify. (That's not my personal opinion.) A few years back you'd see about hours being cut and so on; I believe there's at least one state that no longer publishes an official road map (which is welcome centers' most popular product, probably)....


----------



## Kanadzie

Suburbanist said:


> Are there Welcome Centers in New England, where states are small and easily traveled across?


In a word - YES

The ones in New Hampshire sell booze :cheers:
I love New Hampshire.


----------



## Penn's Woods

New Hampshire has state liquor stores. Like Pennsylvania. In Pennsylvania, the sale of anything stronger than beer has been a monopoly of a government agency called the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board since Prohibition was repealed. Our little moment of nanny-state socialism. (Personally, I think it's ridiculous.) But I digress.

Ahem.

New Hampshire has them at its turnpike service areas. (I stopped at one service area on my New England trip last October.) I honestly don't think setting up a government-owned liquor store at a highway service area sends quite the right message....


----------



## Innsertnamehere

^Ontario is even worse. Government controlled liquor store (literally called the Liquor Control Board of Ontario, or LCBO), and a privately run government sanctioned monopoly that manages the majority of beer sales, under the brand of "The Beer Store".


----------



## Kanadzie

The Beer Store is really bad. Bad selection and absurdly bad customer service, like in Communism country. But in Communism the beer was cheap! Beer store is multiple times more expensive than normal store selling beer in a normal country let alone communistic one. I don't even understand how that can exist...


----------



## KIWIKAAS

^^ 
Reading through the forums I was under the impression that everything in Canada was uber cool, trendy and miles ahead of everywhere (with the exception of Denmark)....now I read this :dunno:


----------



## myosh_tino

Penn's Woods said:


> I've hardly ever seen a weigh station that was actually operating, though....


You should head out here to California where weigh stations are in constant operation. If I'm not mistaken, the weigh stations on I-80 west of Fairfield are in operation 24/7. In fact Caltrans just finished rebuilding the eastbound weigh station. Aerial photos of the project can be found at http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist4/photography/images/13_10920d/ and ground photos can be found at http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist4/photography/images/13_10907d/. When these weigh stations are operating *all* trucks (everything from 18-wheelers all the way down to U-Hauls) must stop at the scales. 

I should add that California does have a system in place where certain trucks can bypass the weigh station if given a "Bypass Signal".


----------



## ChrisZwolle

myosh_tino said:


> I should add that California does have a system in place where certain trucks can bypass the weigh station if given a "Bypass Signal".


I've seen those frequently in Trucker Josh's vlogs (he drives both the U.S. and Canada all the time). He doesn't go to California though.


----------



## JimInJersey

Re: Welcome Centers - yes, you do find them on MANY but not all Interstates in the proximity of state borders, but they are usually not much more than places to get tourist brochures, maps, and, rarely, a bit of sustenance. I don't remember ever seeing a State Welcome Center with things like gas or diesel fuel, overnight stopping, etc. Some might have RV dumps but that's about it. There's one just north of me on I-295 but it's closed on Mondays and Tuesdays. It offers maps and a drinking fountain. The "Rest Stops" on the NJ Turnpike are full-service deals, but again, it's not a "free" interstate. When we drove cross country back in 2012, I tried to make it a point to stop at every state Welcome Cernter to pick up post cards or whatnot for our granddaughter. I was successful in West Virginia, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, Wyoming, and Utah. Coming east on I-70, the one in Kansas was closed (6pm on a Summer evening...), didn't see one in Missouri, and Kentucky was closed too. Here are some representative shots (all are my photos)

West Virginia, I-68 westbound:









Indiana, I-70 Westbound:









Wyoming, I-80 WB, Rock Springs. This was quite a place.









Kansas, I-70 EB, closed for the night:









Kentucky, also shuttered by 6PM :









Pennsylvania has a nice new one on US 15, soon to be I-99, north of Williamsport:


----------



## Penn's Woods

That Colorado/Kansas border, though, is in a weird place if you think about it. Another county or two to the east, you cross into the Central Time Zone, so 6 p.m. is sort of 7. (I mean if you have to be at a certain point beyond the time zone boundary by a certain time.)

In October 2011, I did a road trip to Chicago and southern Wisconsin. Driving back on a Tuesday afternoon, Michigan's welcome center at the Indiana border on 94 (I drove through Michigan even though it was a bit out of the way just for something different than 80/90, which I'd used the other way) was closed. At about 4:00 Eastern. Could have been closed all day on a Tuesday for all I know, but that's another place where the time factor would be relevant. The welcome center itself is on Eastern Time but since the state line is the time zone boundary as well, literally everyone reaching the welcome center will have just been on Central.


----------



## JimInJersey

^^^ Interesting point, PW - I just remember it being windy as all get out all the way across I-70 from Denver to St Louis. And hotter than the blazes, but it was July 3 & 4th...


----------



## Kanadzie

KIWIKAAS said:


> ^^
> Reading through the forums I was under the impression that everything in Canada was uber cool, trendy and miles ahead of everywhere (with the exception of Denmark)....now I read this :dunno:


Anything related to alcoholic beverages in Canada is stupid, insane and unacceptable

Otherwise Canada is pretty nice


----------



## John Maynard

Hahaha, in Poland first thing you see when entering a service/fuel station on A2 or anywhere else is large pallets of discount beers sold in dozens and cheap, entire shelves full of vodkas, whiskeys, strong alcohols just behind the cash register. You should consider returning back to Poland :lol:.

By the way, are beers and alcohols sold on Interstates in all States?


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ Yes I love the Polish attitude, it is correct 

You can buy beer and wine in most gas stations in Quebec, Canada also, and some other provinces, but the prices are high (compared to PL)


----------



## John Maynard

^^ I am gently surprised that with so easily available alcohol 24h/7 in Poland - everywhere in Warsaw and in other towns, almost each corner, fuel stations and "alkohole 24h" shops, it is easier to buy alcoholic beverage than a sandwich or food :lol: - there are no hills of drunken people lying on the streets, as well that rate of accidents involving drunken driving is quite low (lower in fact than in many Western "more restrictive" countries) .

And even in the USA it is not as easy and cheap than in Poland.


----------



## Penn's Woods

John Maynard said:


> By the way, are beers and alcohols sold on Interstates in all States?


Remember that toll-free Interstates (with some exceptions like the Connecticut Turnpike, which used to be a toll road, and a portion of 95 in Delaware and Maryland, which is technically a toll road but where the tolls are easy to avoid....) don't have businesses at service areas, just vending machines at rest areas. The nearest you can get to buying anything "on Interstates" in, say, Georgia, is at the businesses at exits. Where you'll find the same sort of thing you could find farther off the road.

The vending machines at rest areas...well, I imagine selling alcohol from vending machines is illegal (since there's no opportunity to check that the buyer is of drinking age).

Businesses at service areas on toll roads and so on...well, we're talking convenience stores, fast food places...they'll sell more or less what they would at other locations in that state. I'd guess you could buy a six-pack of beer at a 7-Eleven in an Illinois Tollway oasis, for example. You won't be able to buy
anything stronger than beer at any service area on the Pennsylvania Turnpike unless the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board decides to open a "state store" there.

The actual liquor stores like New Hampshire has at its service areas are such an oddity to the rest of the country that you can find pictures of them on the Internet:

http://www.esperdy.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/NH-Liquor-Store-Sign.jpg


----------



## Kanadzie

John Maynard said:


> ^^ I am gently surprised that with so easily available alcohol 24h/7 in Poland - everywhere in Warsaw and in other towns, almost each corner, fuel stations and "alkohole 24h" shops, it is easier to buy alcoholic beverage than a sandwich or food :lol: - there are no hills of drunken people lying on the streets, as well that rate of accidents involving drunken driving is quite low (lower in fact than in many Western "more restrictive" countries) .
> 
> And even in the USA it is not as easy and cheap than in Poland.


Because... Poland is full of Poles

but then again so is Canada and the USA :lol::nuts:


----------



## Innsertnamehere

I never found getting off the interstate to grab lunch to never be much of an issue, most interstates are well serviced at exits. You don't need a rest station if every 3rd exit has multiple hotels and a large fast food selection.

Canada's liquor control is an odd relic in an otherwise fairly progressive country, but there has been lots of discussion in the last few months of changing the setup. Rumour has it that the Beer Store may soon be disbanded and beer (not heavy liquor) be allowed to be sold at corner stores.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Are "beer stores" and government liquor stores only in Ontario?

(And as I ask the question, it comes back to me that Quebec has the SAQ...)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A comedian approach to a serious topic.


----------



## keokiracer

^ Well I guess that answers my question on the Dutch road forum on whether you had seen that episode


----------



## desertpunk

Take a ride through Boston


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-77 Charlotte, NC*

*I-77 Express Lanes Project Moves Forward*

*The North Carolina Department of Transportation is moving forward with the I-77 Express Lanes project, following a Superior Court judge’s ruling in Alamance County that it can continue.*

An advocacy group filed a lawsuit trying to stop the project which is designed to bring much needed, immediate and long-term relief on one of the most congested roadways in the state by providing drivers with a choice for a more reliable travel time. Through a public-private partnership between NCDOT and I-77 Mobility Partners (Cintra US), I-77 Mobility Partners will construct the lanes along a 26 mile stretch of I-77 from Brookshire Freeway (Exit 11) in Charlotte to N.C. 150 (Exit 36) in Iredell County, with the state paying a fraction of the overall cost.​
Full press release: https://apps.ncdot.gov/newsreleases/details.aspx?r=10853


----------



## Penn's Woods

Why Alamance County, I wonder - it's nowhere near I-77....


----------



## desertpunk

Tough sledding on the High Five in Dallas:









http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/category/traffic-accidents/


----------



## Luki_SL

^^There is strong winter in Dallas this year


----------



## Penn's Woods

The Weather Channel actually had a reporter and camera crew on the High Five the other day, reporting from it as about one car a minute would try to negotiate it extremely carefully....


----------



## Nexis

Ben Franklin Bridge over the Delaware River


107 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Loop 202, Phoenix, AZ*

* South Mountain Freeway gains final federal approval *

*Record of Decision signed for long-proposed new freeway*

The Valley’s Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway, proposed by regional planners since the 1980s, has received final approval from the Federal Highway Administration, paving the way for the Arizona Department of Transportation to move the project forward.

The Record of Decision, signed March 5 by the Federal Highway Administration, grants the final approval necessary for ADOT to begin the process of acquiring right of way, complete the design and begin construction of the 22-mile-long freeway to serve the metro Phoenix region. 

The South Mountain Freeway is the last piece to complete the Loop 202 and Loop 101 freeway system necessary for high-quality regional mobility, according to regional planners.​
Full press release: http://azdot.gov/media/News/news-re...mountain-freeway-gains-final-federal-approval

Map:


----------



## Penn's Woods

Nexis said:


> Ben Franklin Bridge over the Delaware River
> 
> 
> 107 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


I used to run down there.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> * South Mountain Freeway gains final federal approval *
> 
> *Record of Decision signed for long-proposed new freeway*
> 
> The Valley’s Loop 202 South Mountain Freeway, proposed by regional planners since the 1980s, has received final approval from the Federal Highway Administration, paving the way for the Arizona Department of Transportation to move the project forward.
> 
> The Record of Decision, signed March 5 by the Federal Highway Administration, grants the final approval necessary for ADOT to begin the process of acquiring right of way, complete the design and begin construction of the 22-mile-long freeway to serve the metro Phoenix region.
> 
> The South Mountain Freeway is the last piece to complete the Loop 202 and Loop 101 freeway system necessary for high-quality regional mobility, according to regional planners.​
> Full press release: http://azdot.gov/media/News/news-re...mountain-freeway-gains-final-federal-approval
> 
> Map:


Chris posted on the wrong thread!  ;-)


----------



## Xusein

Why haven't the loops in Phoenix become interstate highways? Are they just not up to interstate standards?

For some odd reason, Arizona has no three-digit interstates.


----------



## sotonsi

Xusein said:


> Why haven't the loops in Phoenix become interstate highways? Are they just not up to interstate standards?


They are up to interstate standards, but not every road that meets the standards has to be given the blue and red shields.


> For some odd reason, Arizona has no three-digit interstates.


It did have one once, but they extended I-17 over I-410 in Phoenix.

AZ DOT just doesn't seem to like 3dis.


----------



## fredcalif

Xusein said:


> Why haven't the loops in Phoenix become interstate highways? Are they just not up to interstate standards?
> 
> For some odd reason, Arizona has no three-digit interstates.


it is because we pay for those roads here in the state, they are up to interstate standard, but if we give them the blue shield the Feds will have to pay for it.

and the loops in Phoenix are financed by out taxes in Maricopa County


----------



## geogregor

fredcalif said:


> it is because we pay for those roads here in the state, they are up to interstate standard, but if we give them the blue shield the Feds will have to pay for it.
> 
> and the loops in Phoenix are financed by out taxes in Maricopa County


So, why did it need the Federal Highway Administration approval? 
Are you sure there is no money from the feds involved?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-30 / SH 360 interchange, Arlington, TX*

*TxDOT Approves Funding for the I-30/SH 360 Interchange *

As part of the allocation of Proposition 1 funds, the Texas Transportation Commission has approved $254 million for the new direct connect Interstate 30/SH 360 interchange project. This was after much public involvement and recommendation by the North Central Texas Council of Governments’ Regional Transportation Council in collaboration with the Texas Department of Transportation (TxDOT). This fall, TxDOT will award the project to a contractor with construction kicking off soon after.

The project will provide a fully directional interchange at I-30 and SH 360 and will include the reconstruction and widening of the Six Flags Drive bridge over I-30 from two lanes to five lanes (three southbound lanes and two northbound lanes). The bridge will improve access to Six Flags Over Texas and the greater commercial area by extending Six Flags Drive north to Avenue H.​
Full press release: http://www.txdot.gov/inside-txdot/media-center/local-news/fort-worth/009-2015.html

Current interchange. It will be a full stack interchange.


----------



## radko

hi,
Can someone sent me ([email protected]) some highway map from United States from 60s, 70s, 80s. I would like compare development of building motorways. If i got enough sources i will paint historical map and re-send back for anyone on skycrapercity.
Thank for now


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Traffic in 2014*

Road traffic grew strongly in 2014, with only a fraction below peak year 2007. Overall miles traveled grew 1.7% in 2014 and 5.0% in December 2014 compared to December 2013.


----------



## Nexis

I-87 in the South Bronx


I-87 in the South Bronx by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 635, Dallas*

The LBJ Express project is really taking shape now.


----------



## SounderBruce

*I-5 in Downtown Seattle, Part 1*

And here's part 2, I-5 from Yesler Way to the Convention Center/Freeway Park Lid in Downtown Seattle.

*James Street underpass (from above)*


I-5 from Columbia Center by SounderBruce, on Flickr

*Madison Street*


I-5 southbound from Madison Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 southbound from Madison Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 northbound from Madison Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 northbound from Madison Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 from 7th & Columbia by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 southbound from Madison Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 northbound from Madison Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr

*Spring Street*


I-5 northbound from Spring Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 southbound from Spring Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr

Stay tuned tomorrow for Part 3: I-5 between downtown and Capitol Hill.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-5 has 4 reversible lanes. I believe this is the widest reversible lane setup in the world. Only a few facilities have more than 2 reversible lanes. 

Traffic flows have gotten more diverse over the years. The inbound a.m. and outbound p.m. flows aren't as dominant as they used to be. They plan to replace the I-45 reversible lane in Houston with two tolled express lanes each way, because there is almost as much traffic outbound as inbound at the a.m. rush hour. 

Reversible lanes are pretty rare in Europe. Only a handful of facilities exist on freeways / motorways, most are on urban arterials.


----------



## SounderBruce

ChrisZwolle said:


> I-5 has 4 reversible lanes. I believe this is the widest reversible lane setup in the world. Only a few facilities have more than 2 reversible lanes.
> 
> Traffic flows have gotten more diverse over the years. The inbound a.m. and outbound p.m. flows aren't as dominant as they used to be.


It's much worse in Seattle, where commute patterns go in both directions (people living in the suburbs and working in downtown; people living in downtown and working in the suburbs). Often times, you can see congestion in the reverse-peak direction while the peak direction is flowing smoothly because of the express lanes.

The other set of reversible express lanes in Seattle (on I-90) are being removed and replaced with light rail sometime in the next few years.


----------



## mcarling

SounderBruce said:


> The other set of reversible express lanes in Seattle (on I-90) are being removed and replaced with light rail sometime in the next few years.


That will be a disaster for traffic on I-90.


----------



## SounderBruce

mcarling said:


> That will be a disaster for traffic on I-90.


WSDOT is replacing the lane capacity with two new HOV lanes by narrowing the existing lanes. It won't do a thing to capacity and will probably improve traffic by removing the buses that use the lanes during rush hour.


----------



## Nexis

Goethals Bridge over the Kill Van Kull


Goethals Bridge Westbound in Staten Island by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

Work on the New Goethals Bridge


New Goethals Bridge Construction by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## Kanadzie

Innsertnamehere said:


> Hmm it seems the 401 may finally be overtaken by this project, certainly on the widest highway title.


We will need to make sure MTO has more lanes on the Mid-Pen and GTA West roads to keep up:cheers:


----------



## Professor L Gee

SounderBruce said:


> WSDOT is replacing the lane capacity with two new HOV lanes by narrowing the existing lanes. It won't do a thing to capacity and will probably improve traffic by removing the buses that use the lanes during rush hour.


So I'm guessing the car lanes won't be Interstate-standard anymore once this happens.


----------



## Nexis

Verrazano Narrows Bridge 


Verrazano Narrows Bridge in New York City by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Verrazano Narrows Bridge in New York City by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Verrazano Narrows Bridge in New York City by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

HOV lanes are overrated anyway. They don't meet their intended goal: reducing the amount of vehicles. The majority of HOV lane users are families who would travel together regardless of HOV lane existance. That's why HOV lanes are often jammed up too, and don't meet federal standards regarding operational speed. 

It's well justified to introduce HOT lanes with a HOV 3+ restriction on former HOV 2+ lanes. It results in a better traffic flow and higher throughput because with dynamic pricing it can operate just under the congestion threshold, which results in the highest amount of vehicles per hour possible. It also gives people an option if they are in a hurry.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-10 Katy Freeway, Houston, TX*

The concrete jungle of Houston!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Houston*

The massive reconstruction project that is proposed for the Downtown Houston freeway system.






Screencaps:

The I-10/45 interchange.









The I-10/69 interchange









The I-45 North Freeway (between I-10 and I-610)


----------



## SounderBruce

*I-5 in Downtown Seattle, Part 2*

Part 3 of the series, from the Convention Center lid to Lakeview Boulevard.

*Pine Street & Boren Avenue*


I-5 southbound from Pine & Boren by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 northbound from Pine & Boren by SounderBruce, on Flickr


DSTT Entrance at Convention Place by SounderBruce, on Flickr

*Olive Way*


I-5 southbound from Olive Way by SounderBruce, on Flickr

I-5 northbound from Olive Way by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 southbound from Olive Way by SounderBruce, on Flickr

*Denny Way*


I-5 southbound from Denny Way by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 northbound from Denny & Melrose by SounderBruce, on Flickr

*Melrose Avenue*


I-5 northbound from Melrose & Thomas by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 from Melrose & Roy by SounderBruce, on Flickr

*Lakeview Boulevard*


I-5 from Lakeview Boulevard by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 from Lakeview Boulevard by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 from Lakeview Boulevard by SounderBruce, on Flickr


----------



## Kanadzie

considering the piece of crap highway the famous 'Alaskan Way' is/was/will be, I-5 is rather impressive!


----------



## SounderBruce

Kanadzie said:


> considering the piece of crap highway the famous 'Alaskan Way' is/was/will be, I-5 is rather impressive!


Once the viaduct is down and replaced, the state is probably going up look into replacing parts of I-5 in Seattle. The freeway is already too old and was not built to fit modern traffic patterns (the express lanes are peak direction instead of all day two-way).


----------



## sonysnob

SounderBruce said:


> Once the viaduct is down and replaced, the state is probably going up look into replacing parts of I-5 in Seattle. The freeway is already too old and was not built to fit modern traffic patterns (the express lanes are peak direction instead of all day two-way).


Well they may have, had they not just spent every dime they had for transportation infrastructure on unearthing Bertha.


----------



## Tom 958

ChrisZwolle said:


> The massive reconstruction project that is proposed for the Downtown Houston freeway system.


To me, the astounding thing isn't so much the size-- it's why it's so big: they're removing a mile-long section of freeway viaduct and rerouting I-45 around what is now two sides of the triangle around downtown. I never would've predicted such a thing. The routing of I-75 and I-85 together through downtown Atlanta created a topological problem that likely will never be resolved-- I'm amazed that Houston of all places would willing create the same problem. W/e.

So, the 28 lanes depicted in this drawing is actually fairly tame: Seven general lanes and four managed lanes each for both I-10 and I-45, then another four plus two managed lanes for the downtown spur:


----------



## mcarling

Tom 958 said:


> To me, the astounding thing isn't so much the size-- it's why it's so big: they're removing a mile-long section of freeway viaduct and rerouting I-45 around what is now two sides of the triangle around downtown.


Perhaps there is a good reason for it, but that sounds incredibly stupid.


----------



## ttownfeen

Tom 958 said:


> To me, the astounding thing isn't so much the size-- it's why it's so big: they're removing a mile-long section of freeway viaduct and rerouting I-45 around what is now two sides of the triangle around downtown. I never would've predicted such a thing. *The routing of I-75 and I-85 together through downtown Atlanta created a topological problem that likely will never be resolved-- I'm amazed that Houston of all places would willing create the same problem. W/e.*


Couldn't agree more. I can't fathom how this would be an improvement.


----------



## CNGL

Now that the AASHTO May meeting document is out, I think that I-169 they approved in Southern Texas should have been I-169E . And Tennessee tried to get I-840, but somehow thier paperwork messed up.


----------



## vvduw

very good
i like it


----------



## rantanamo




----------



## Nexis

New Jersey Turnpike in Woodbridge,NJ


New Jersey Turnpike in Woodbridge,NJ by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Jschmuck

New I-95/I-276 interchange connection construction in eastern Pennsylvania, pic by me;


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-65, Louisville, KY*

The new Ohio River Bridge in Louisville, Kentucky.


----------



## triodegradable

cool


----------



## diablo234

I-94 thru Detroit is going to be rebuilt and expanded to four lanes in each direction.


----------



## triodegradable

nice news


----------



## Kanadzie

diablo234 said:


> I-94 thru Detroit is going to be rebuilt and expanded to four lanes in each direction.


We always hear Detroit and MI have no money, but then... multibillion dollar road project :lol:


----------



## Calvin W

Kanadzie said:


> We always hear Detroit and MI have no money, but then... multibillion dollar road project :lol:


Interstate highways are not paid for by cities, dumb arse...


----------



## diablo234

Kanadzie said:


> We always hear Detroit and MI have no money, but then... multibillion dollar road project :lol:


The state of Michigan has plenty of money, it is just Detroit that is having fiscal problems (they just recently exited bankruptcy btw). Anyways since this is an interstate highway, so the state is paying for the expansion.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This section of I-94 is quite old, built in the 1950s, so in need of major repairs. 

As I understand they don't need much extra right-of-way, because the freeway runs below grade and the grassy slopes can be replaced by retaining walls.

I presume it will look much like the recently renovated I-96 (Jeffries Freeway) through Livonia.


----------



## Tom 958

A few weeks ago, I drove from ATL to Greensboro and back and took a few photos. This is arguably a continuation of a photo feature I started at skyscrapercity.com in 2008. If there's a gold medal for procrastination, it's mine. :bash:

I also posted these at AAroads, and there I found out, to my surprise, that the route where I took these photos, shown here...



mapmikey said:


> A super-2ish road was built about 1954 from the state line at Grover southwest mostly along the original I-85 route to Lyman. US 29 was put on this route, then I-85 was constructed on top of most of it. The original route through Gaffney and Spartanburg became US 29 ALT. In 1962, US 29 was restored to its original routing and the one part of the new 1954 road that didn't become I-85 became SC 129.


Wow! :banana:

OK, on to the photos: I'm starting at the southern end of Business 85 outside of Spartanburg. I've always lived around Atlanta, and my Mom's family lives in Hampton and Newport News, so I've been travelling this way for virtually all of my 56 years. Of course, I-85 was relocated to a fine new bypass route in 1993 (IIRC), but I always take the old route northbound. Other than the Clearview signage and the cable rail median barriers, it's a lot like what it was like as far back as I can remember. And there's no traffic! The speed limit's only 60, though.










This is a bit north of the I-26 interchange and shows the standard cross section. On the right is a large cement plant with an elevated rail spur that I always thought was pretty cool.










The highway narrows as it overpasses streets and railroads, and the obsolete concrete open-rail bridge guardrails are augmented by thrie beams. If there was ever a shoulder (I don't think there was), it was pressed into use as an auxiliary lane. Imagine this on a rainy day in the early '90's carrying 70k vehicles per day. hno:










Here's a surprise: A roundabout interchange, right here in '50's South Cackalacky. Actually it's more of a traffic circle, but hey... As an ignorant American I always thought it was backward, but it was pretty much state of the art in terms of timing if not of design. It doesn't appear to have been modified-- hopefully that means it works OK.

And I recently found out:


mapmikey said:


> Hearon Circle in Spartanburg predates I-85. Originally the super-2ish US 29 connected to the circle as an at grade before the interstate bridge was constructed in 1958.













Getting back on the freeway, the weaving section between here and the offramp to I-585/US 176 is really short, and the interchange is missing one movement despite extensive, recent reconstruction of the freeway portion of US 176.










Just past I-585... I like Clearview, but some words are hard to read in any font. 










Leaving jolly olde England, we find ourselves in exotic Arkansas. Here's an Arkansas-type interchange in which the overpass spans both the freeway and the frontage roads on both sides. I recall there being quite a few of these, but my oldest official SC map (with layouts of every Interstate interchange!) doesn't bear that out, and SC has reconfigured (I guess) nearly half of the service interchanges on I-85 anyway. So, this may be the sole survivor.










North of Spartanburg, there's this wonderfully hideous railroad bridge (the photo was taken going southbound, BTW). This, too, I remember from way early in my life, partly because the rail line serves a chemical plant that was lit spectacularly at night and which therefore became a bit of a landmark. :cheers:










Last for now: Ever take a photo of something that was supposed to be typical and it turned out not to be? For whatever reason, I decided I needed a photo of typical I-85 north of Spartanburg right as I approached the last interchange in SC. But the legacy bridge guardrails have been fully demolished and replaced with Jersey barriers, something that hasn't been done on any of the other bridges over 85 nor even on quite a few of the ones _carrying_ 85! So, this bridge looks decades newer than it actually is.

Coming back southbound, I noticed too late to photograph that a large section of the legacy bridge guardrail on the next interchange south from here had been rebuilt to its original configuration, I presume after having been damaged. The repair work looked really sloppy, and that suggests that it cost way too much, too. I suspect that after that episode, the decision was made never to attempt to rebuild '50's-era concrete guardrail again.


----------



## Tom 958

Next, we're right across the border in NC. From north of Spartanburg to the US74 junction, I-85 is about the same age (quite elderly) on both sides of the border, with four lanes and a similar amount of traffic. However, SC's segment appears to be well into the period of neglect that precedes a major rebuilding project, in this case the planned six laning of I-85. NC's section presents a much more finished appearance. Here's the typical condition in that area:










Here, looking southbound just north of interchange 4, is something of an anomaly: the southbound roadway is much hillier than the northbound. That's because I-85 here incorporated the newish but preexisting US 29 Kings Mountain bypass as its southbound roadway.



















Skipping north to the other side of Charlotte, I felt obligated to take a shot or two of the almost-completed 85-485 interchange. It's big, but, gawd, it's so boring! hno:










Beyond there, I was pleasantly surprised to find that the construction zone from hell just north of 485 is no more. Eight laning of I-85 has been completed past NC 73 and barrels have been placed for the next lift through the Concord-Kannapolis cloverleaf. Disturbingly at odds with my memory, there is no more work underway on I-85 between there and Greensboro, which is where I was bound (for my daughter's wedding-- yay!).










This is at Old Union Church Road, exit 79, a couple of miles south of the Yadkin River. I took the photo because of the rumble strips bracketed by two yellow lines on the left shoulder-- I don't recall ever seeing that anywhere else. After seeing that video of the modified thrie beam guardrail in action, I'm unpleasantly amazed that they used an old-skool w beam for the barrier on such a narrow median. hno:










Last, a rather pointless shot of the exit to former Business 85 and future I-285. Or... by this time, I'd noticed that while NC seems to be nominally following the 2009 MUTCD in regard to signing multilane exits, they'd somehow managed to avoid the (duly mandated) blatant mislabeling of option lanes that irritates the piss out of me in Georgia.


----------



## Tom 958

Last, I-40 and friends westbound, returning from Greensboro to ATL while avoiding the Charlotte Motor Speedway area on Memorial Day weekend. Here are a few shots of Business 40- US 421 through Winston-Salem before they start tearing it up. Any day now, right?:




























Next, the I-77 interchange, unphotogenic as hell in typical NC style. First, east of 77...










...then west, approaching the US 21 interchange.










Last, a shot of the really ancient part of I-40, somewhere between Statesville and Hickory. The bridge guardrail is what caught my eye here. Also, the median is very narrow, and the barriers are either two cable rail installations or a pitiful-looking double-sided W beam on what looks like chain link fence posts. The bridges that carry I-40 don't have shoulders, either. I suppose that upgrades are at least on NCDOT's to-do-someday list, but there are more urgent priorities.


----------



## JuaanAcosta

I recently saw that in the Crosby Freeway (U.S. 90, to the east of Houston) there are 2 one-mile-long gaps. What's the story behind those, they'll get constructed in the future or what?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Traffic uses the frontage roads at those locations. You see that sometimes in Texas. These frontage roads do not have intersections there, so it's basically a freeway. It is to save cost, US 90 is one of the least used freeways in Houston.

SH 550 / I-169 near Brownsville is also in use like that.


----------



## Kanadzie

Autoroute 440 in Laval, Canada had a section built like that. Only frontage roads, and a flat intersection at what is now an interchange. The area was just farms when opened.


----------



## ScraperDude

In the SW part of KC metro (Kansas suburbs) The Johnson County Gateway project is underway. This has been such an bottleneck for traffic on the I-435/K-10/I-35 that all meet here. It looks like with collectors and through traffic lanes it will be 22 lanes wide. I think the widest stretch of freeway in KC metro.

Nabbed the pic off the youtube video posted by KansasDOT

https://youtu.be/ickHZ4wZpXI

http://jocogateway.com/


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## Nexis

Alexander Hamilton Bridge (I-95) & Washington Bridge (US1) over the Harlem River viewed from the HighLine


View from High Bridge by Doug Ensel, on Flickr


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## Suburbanist

This is I-70 on Glenwood Canyon (Colorado)









Source

.









Source (FreewayJim Facebook page)

.


----------



## siamu maharaj

Suburbanist said:


> This is I-70 on Glenwood Canyon (Colorado)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source (FreewayJim Facebook page)
> 
> .


This is porn.


----------



## Jim856796

I heard that due to an anticipated increase in auto traffic in the future, the Interstate 30 corridor between Interstate 530 and U.S. Route 67 will be widened from six lanes to 10 lanes.

Source: https://connectingarkansasprogram.com/corridors/9/i-30-pulaski-county/#.VYXUTflViko


----------



## Xusein

Nexis said:


> Alexander Hamilton Bridge (I-95) & Washington Bridge (US1) over the Harlem River viewed from the HighLine
> 
> 
> View from High Bridge by Doug Ensel, on Flickr


Nice picture but IMO, it's one of the worst designed interchanges in the entire country.


----------



## hammersklavier

diablo234 said:


> I-94 thru Detroit is going to be rebuilt and expanded to four lanes in each direction.


...and the justification is? (Other than using Federal funds, of course.) Detroit has managed to decongest itself. Though the price was a tad steeper than they realized.


ScraperDude said:


> In the SW part of KC metro (Kansas suburbs) The Johnson County Gateway project is underway. This has been such an bottleneck for traffic on the I-435/K-10/I-35 that all meet here. It looks like with collectors and through traffic lanes it will be 22 lanes wide. I think the widest stretch of freeway in KC metro.
> 
> Nabbed the pic off the youtube video posted by KansasDOT
> 
> https://youtu.be/ickHZ4wZpXI
> 
> http://jocogateway.com/


There are exactly two places in the entire Kansas City metropolitan area where the highway is actually by any meaningful definition congested (at least to my Easterner eyes). This is one of them. It's also in the Olathe area, which is like the most boringest part of the whole metro.

But ... 22 lanes ... wow, just wow ...


Xusein said:


> Nice picture but IMO, it's one of the worst designed interchanges in the entire country.


And how would you redesign it, given the constraints that (a) it's in the Bronx, and (b) you've got to drop the interchange lanes essentially the vertical equivalent of a ten-story building with a reasonable grade over a reasonable distance in a reasonable area?


----------



## Nexis

Xusein said:


> Nice picture but IMO, it's one of the worst designed interchanges in the entire country.


Its such a tight area , i'm not sure what you can do...


----------



## Xusein

Unfortunately nothing can be done. I'm just fascinated at the loop you have to make from I-87 South to I-95 South. I've driven this onramp once and it was actually one of the most stressful lane changes I made. Granted, I drove when they were fixing the interchange.

Frankly I don't think interchanges like these would have been allowed to be made in the present day.


----------



## Xpressway

I90 eastbound from Mercer Island to Seattle, WA.










Had a great time in Washington. The highways are in good condition and even though there was heavy traffic during rush hour, during the rest of the day its a pleasant experience to drive in WA highways.


----------



## diablo234

hammersklavier said:


> ...and the justification is? (Other than using Federal funds, of course.) Detroit has managed to decongest itself. Though the price was a tad steeper than they realized.


The justification is that most of that stretch of I-94 thru Detroit is badly in need of repair anyways (most of that roadway has not really seen any work since it was built back in the 1960's), plus they are anticipating an increase in cross-border traffic from Canada since Detroit is a major border crossing. They are also upgrading it to modern standards by getting rid of left lane exits.


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## Paddington

Crossing the Soo St. Marie bridge at the Northern end of I-75 from Michigan into Canada:


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## VoltAmps

diablo234 said:


> I-94 thru Detroit is going to be rebuilt and expanded to four lanes in each direction.


This video is old as dirt. They're presently rebuilding a few overpasses along I-94 in Detroit/Grosse Pointe/Roseville. The major overhaul won't happen


----------



## keokiracer

VoltAmps said:


> This video is old as dirt.


*note to self: dirt is from 2010


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Lots of bridges crossing the Clear Fork of the Trinity River in Fort Worth, Texas.

I-30, Vickery Boulevard, Chisholm Trail Parkway, railroads & Rosedale Street. 14 spans in total.


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## Xpressway

VoltAmps said:


> This video is old as dirt. They're presently rebuilding a few overpasses along I-94 in Detroit/Grosse Pointe/Roseville. *The major overhaul won't happen*


Oh no. hno:

It looked so nice in the video...


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-25, Pueblo, CO*

* Construction of New Pueblo Freeway Begins *

*The first project to reconstruct Interstate 25 through Pueblo officially is underway after a groundbreaking ceremony near Runyon Field today. *

Dignitaries with the Colorado Department of Transportation (CDOT), the Federal Highway Administration, the City of Pueblo, Pueblo County and the contractor team of Flatiron Constructors and the engineering firm HDR broke ground on the reconstruction of I-25 between City Center Drive (1st Street) and Ilex Street. The project also includes upgrading a number of bridges south of downtown.

Project completion is scheduled for summer 2017.​
Project site: https://www.codot.gov/projects/ilexbridges

They will prepare the reconstructed I-25 to allow a six-lane layout in the future. 

This is the second-oldest stretch of I-25 in Colorado, it opened in July 1959. The stretch through Denver is only 8 months older.


----------



## Nexis

*New Tappan Zee Bridge update*


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-35, Texas*

The widening of I-35 north of Waco, Texas, has recently been completed.


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## Mirror's Edge

^^So strange they don't even-out the freeways more in America, I guess they began back then and then expanded the road next to existing "roller coaster road", with hills and all.


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## 00Zy99

Mirror's Edge said:


> ^^So strange they don't even-out the freeways more in America, I guess they began back then and then expanded the road next to existing "roller coaster road", with hills and all.


1) it's cheaper

2) it helps prevent road hypnosis in some cases

3) the camera angle is shortened-it isn't as extreme as it looks


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ True points. I-35 runs through a lot of flat prairies with lots of commercial & residential development between San Antonio and Denton, so this is actually quite nice


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## ChrisZwolle

*Texas*

Some statistics from the Texas Transportation Institute (full report)


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-430 / I-630 Little Rock, Arkansas*

The 'Big Rock Interchange', linking I-430 and I-630 in western Little Rock, Arkansas was dedicated yesterday after a 5 year, $ 150 million reconstruction.


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## Ukraine

quite a sexy interchange!


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## Xpressway

^^ Nice interchange, I like the details such as smooth edges and designs in the pillars.


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## SounderBruce

*I-5 in Everett, WA, Part I*

A little slice of Everett, one of the principal suburbs around Seattle.

*Summit Park / I-5 at 23rd Stret*

A good park for freeway watching, if you're into that sort of thing. This stretch of I-5 is the beginning of the southbound HOV lane network, which extends south to Tacoma (with a gap in Seattle because of the reversible express lanes). It might be the northernmost HOV lane in the United States, since I don't think Alaska has any.


Summit Park, Everett by SounderBruce, on Flickr


Mount Pilchuck from Summit Park in Everett by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 northbound from 23rd Street in Everett by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 southbound from 23rd Street in Everett by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 southbound from Summit Park in Everett by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 northbound from Summit Park in Everett by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 northbound from Summit Park in Everett by SounderBruce, on Flickr

*I-5 at 75th Street*


I-5 southbound from 75th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


STEX 9562C in an HOV lane by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 northbound from 75th Street in Everett by SounderBruce, on Flickr

*I-5 and Broadway at 41st Street*

One of the first SPUIs in Washington state. The street continues east past I-5 but is closed to public access. The area, which includes a completed but unused roundabout, was to become the Everett Riverfront mixed-use development until it was scrapped.


I-5 southbound from 41st Street in Everett by SounderBruce, on Flickr


41st Street SPUI by SounderBruce, on Flickr


Ramp meter with HOV bypass by SounderBruce, on Flickr


Broadway southbound from 41st Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


41st Street Extension by SounderBruce, on Flickr


Unused roundabout in Everett by SounderBruce, on Flickr


----------



## goldbough

> The widening of I-35 north of Waco, Texas, has recently been completed.


Is one extra lane going to help a lot? You'd think they would have added 2 extra lanes while they had the chance. Unless that was too expensive.


----------



## mattec

Delusions of grandeur in WV on extending I-68 from Morgantown to the Ohio River



> MARSHALL COUNTY, W.Va. -- Leaders in Marshall County are asking for the public's support in a major highway project that could boost infrastructure in the area. The Interstate 68 expansion project has been talked about for more than 20, but now county commissioners are hoping to actually get state leaders to push a road from Moundsville to Morgantown along.
> 
> Read More at: http://www.wtov9.com/shared/news/fe...roject-9554.shtml?wap=0#.VZ2pWMcgOvU.facebook


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## ckojam

goldbough said:


> Is one extra lane going to help a lot? You'd think they would have added 2 extra lanes while they had the chance. Unless that was too expensive.


It is more expensive but no matter how much they widen it by, a lot of times traffic starts building up again. Interesting article wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-traffic-induced-demand


----------



## SounderBruce

*I-5 in Everett, WA, Part II*

South Everett has the only park and ride in Washington state located in a freeway median, which is naturally where a transit-dependent person like myself decided to go:


South Everett Freeway Station bus bays by SounderBruce, on Flickr

As a result of the wide median, I-5's two directions are split pretty far apart at 112th Street, requiring more photos to capture it. I went back a few hours after my initial set to take pictures of the southbound lanes clogged with traffic (including a few buses deadheading into downtown Seattle for the evening commute):


I-5 southbound lanes looking north from 112th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 northbound from 112th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 northbound approaching SR 526/527/99 by SounderBruce, on Flickr


Traffic on I-5 southbound at 112th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 southbound traffic in South Everett by SounderBruce, on Flickr


Deadheading buses in I-5 traffic by SounderBruce, on Flickr


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Seems like the HOV lanes aren't very effective, you're still sitting in the same traffic lol. They need their own dedicated bus lane and of course rail would be better. I'm moving to the Seattle area at the start of September. How bad is traffic in the Renton area?



Mirror's Edge said:


> ^^So strange they don't even-out the freeways more in America, I guess they began back then and then expanded the road next to existing "roller coaster road", with hills and all.


They sometimes to level the highways and sometimes don't. I prefer the hills and all since it helps people focus more on driving, that and for people who like to drive its more fun. I've driven that stretch of I-35, its not that bad honestly.


----------



## SounderBruce

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Seems like the HOV lanes are useles, you're still sitting in the same traffic lol. They need their own dedicated bus lane or of course rail would be better. I'm moving to the Seattle area at the start of September. How bad is traffic in the Renton area?


Ah, Renton. You get airport traffic, Seattle-bound commuters, and traffic from the Green River Valley merging in there. The WSDOT Traffic Map Archive is a handy tool to see how terrible the traffic is.

Fun fact: part of I-405 near Renton known as "the Renton S-curve" is an infamous spot for traffic to form for absolutely no reason.


----------



## keokiracer

SounderBruce said:


> Fun fact: part of I-405 near Renton known as "the Renton S-curve" is an infamous spot for traffic to form for absolutely no reason.


I am interested. Where exactly is this S-curve?


----------



## SounderBruce

keokiracer said:


> I am interested. Where exactly is this S-curve?


Between exits 2 and 4 on I-405.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Seems like the HOV lanes aren't very effective, you're still sitting in the same traffic lol.


I believe there is a federal rule that if an HOV lane was built with federal money, and doesn't meet minimum traffic speeds, the state would have to pay the money back.

The 'problem' with HOV lanes is that a large share of users are family members who would have traveled together regardless of the HOV lane's existance. It's just a regular lane for them.


----------



## Exbubba

We have them in NoVa and they are underused except in rush hour which is now a 3-4 hours long on weekdays. Buses can use them but are unreliable in some areas and trains are already full.


----------



## Exbubba

*Overpasses in ice prone ares suck*



Ukraine said:


> quite a sexy interchange!


Quite sexy to look at until one drives on them in winter snow and ice!


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

SounderBruce said:


> Ah, Renton. You get airport traffic, Seattle-bound commuters, and traffic from the Green River Valley merging in there. The WSDOT Traffic Map Archive is a handy tool to see how terrible the traffic is.
> 
> Fun fact: part of I-405 near Renton known as "the Renton S-curve" is an infamous spot for traffic to form for absolutely no reason.


It seems like traffic is bad on that s-curve and on I-5 heading into Seattle but otherwise doesn't seem too bad in that area. Maybe the traffic on the s-curve is from all the interchanges in that area? Thanks for the link!


----------



## 00Zy99

SounderBruce said:


> Ah, Renton. You get airport traffic, Seattle-bound commuters, and traffic from the Green River Valley merging in there. The WSDOT Traffic Map Archive is a handy tool to see how terrible the traffic is.


I'll see this and raise you I-95.



> Fun fact: part of I-405 near Renton known as "the Renton S-curve" is an infamous spot for traffic to form for absolutely no reason.


Sounds like Norwalk on the Connecticut Turnpike.


----------



## Nexis

00Zy99 said:


> I'll see this and raise you I-95.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like Norwalk on the Connecticut Turnpike.


Route 7's Interchange tends to cause a lot of backups....just like Route 8 in Bridgeport...


----------



## Tom 958

Luki_SL said:


> ^^ Diverging diamond interchange


Actually a diverging half diamond. I've never seen one before.



FM 2258 said:


> Wow....that took like for--effing--ever to complete, finally!!!!
> 
> I always wondered why they did a complete overhaul for one extra lane in each direction instead of just paving over the grassy median and adding a wall. That's how my lazy-ass would have done it and in much less time. :cheers:


I agree, but in reading project concept reports for the widening of I-85 north of Atlanta, I discovered that the existing vertical alignment of I-85 is substandard, the values for K factor for vertical curves having been raised a while back. I find this especially annoying given that the section of I-85 in question is noticeably less hilly than older segments in NC and SC which have been widened as you describe.

And...



> "Please evaluate the option of raising SR 332 in the design phase (as opposed to lowering the Interstate profile)."


DUH, YA THINK?!?!?! :lol:

So, between that and the condition of the pavement and subgrade, that's probably why they did a full rebuild.


----------



## Stuck in Bama

ALDOT says no timetable set for I-22/I-65 interchange. 

http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2015/07/aldot_says_no_timetable_set_fo.html

This project was supposed to be completed back in October 2014. Another target date was August of this year, but that is not likely to happen either. Talk now is that ALDOT is looking at a Spring 2016 completion date.


----------



## SounderBruce

*I-5 in North Seattle: Redux*

A year ago this month, I traveled up and down the I-5 corridor in North Seattle to capture it on my camera, en route to a World Cup viewing party. This time around (with significantly less snow on Mount Rainier), I've returned with my DSLR to do the same!

*NE 92nd Street*


I-5 looking south from NE 92nd Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 looking south from NE 92nd Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 looking south from NE 92nd Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


Line of buses on I-5 southbound by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 northbound from NE 92nd Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 looking north from NE 92nd Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 looking north from NE 92nd Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr

*NE 80th Street*


I-5 southbound from NE 80th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 southbound from NE 80th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 northbound from NE 80th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


The Eleanor from NE 80th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr

*5th Avenue NE*


I-5 northbound in 5th Avenue NE by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 northbound in 5th Avenue NE by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 southbound in 5th Avenue NE by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 southbound in 5th Avenue NE by SounderBruce, on Flickr

*Rainbow Point*


I-5 southbound from Rainbow Point by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 southbound from Rainbow Point by SounderBruce, on Flickr

*NE 50th Street*


Seattle skyline from NE 50th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


Seattle skyline from NE 50th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 southbound from NE 50th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 southbound from NE 50th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 northbound from NE 50th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 northbound from NE 50th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr

*NE 45th Street*


Seattle skyline from NE 45th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


Seattle skyline and I-5 from NE 45th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 southbound from NE 45th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 northbound from NE 45th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 looking north from NE 45th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


----------



## ukraroad

Do the motorways cope with traffic in rush hours in Seattle or PM6-7 is a constant jam


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Seattle area has considerable reverse commuting patterns. 

Greater Seattle has a lot of freeways, but eventually traffic has to deal with either I-5 or I-405 to get somewhere. They run north-south and the urban area has expanded north and south as well. Somewhat like greater Salt Lake City or Miami.


----------



## triodegradable

cool pics


----------



## Xpressway

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Seattle area has considerable reverse commuting patterns.
> 
> Greater Seattle has a lot of freeways, but eventually traffic has to deal with either I-5 or I-405 to get somewhere. They run north-south and the urban area has expanded north and south as well. Somewhat like greater Salt Lake City or Miami.


Absolutely, what I noticed in Seattle's freeways is that usually one way sits empty while the other is jammed.


----------



## Xusein

It doesn't help that the number of lanes on each side is cut by half once a day. Going north on I-5 is normally OK until the express lanes merge.


----------



## Nexis

Tappan Zee Bridge

From Yesterday taken on the Tarrytown side


Tappan Zee Bridge Construction viewed from Tarrytown,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


Tappan Zee Bridge Construction viewed from Tarrytown,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


Tappan Zee Bridge Construction viewed from Tarrytown,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


Tappan Zee Bridge Construction viewed from Tarrytown,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


Tappan Zee Bridge Construction viewed from Tarrytown,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


Tappan Zee Bridge Construction viewed from Tarrytown,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


Tappan Zee Bridge Construction viewed from Tarrytown,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-395, Alexandria, Virginia*

The I-395 / Seminary Road interchange in Alexandria, Virginia (suburban Washington).


IMG_9707 by Virginia Department of Transportation, on Flickr


IMG_9715 by Virginia Department of Transportation, on Flickr


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## Jschmuck

^^ interesting to see a tower crane for transportation project construction.


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## ukraroad

iT SEEMS THIS INTERCHANGE WILL HAVE 3 FLOORS? OMG. I can't get head nor tail of this


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## geogregor

Jschmuck said:


> ^^ interesting to see a tower crane for transportation project construction.


It is very common in Poland.


----------



## shakman

Jschmuck said:


> ^^ interesting to see a tower crane for transportation project construction.


I have seen tower cranes used on other transportation projects in the States.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-95 Jacksonville, FL*

Welcome to Jacksonville.


----------



## OakRidge

Couple photos of an old abandoned stretch of the Lincoln Highway near the ghost town of Clarksville, California.

Old stretch of Lincoln Highway near Clarksville, California by OakRidge, on Flickr
Old stretch of Lincoln Highway near Clarksville, California by OakRidge, on Flickr
Aggregate in old stretch of Lincoln Highway near Clarksville, California by OakRidge, on Flickr


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## tradephoric

ChrisZwolle said:


> The I-395 / Seminary Road interchange in Alexandria, Virginia (suburban Washington).
> 
> 
> IMG_9707 by Virginia Department of Transportation, on Flickr
> 
> 
> IMG_9715 by Virginia Department of Transportation, on Flickr


Reminds me of the interchange at 8 Mile & Woodward in Detroit. It was referred to as a "super-highway" back in the day.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-84 Waterbury, CT*

*Malloy: Mixmaster replacement to cost $10 billion *

Gov. Dannel P. Malloy says replacing the stacks of highway bridges that comprise the Mixmaster interchange in Waterbury will cost $10 billion based on the latest estimate.

The State Bond Commission today approved $1 million for a design and engineering study for reconfiguring the geometry of the Route 8 and Interstate 84 interchange, notorious for its cumbersome left-lane entrance and exit ramps.

The state Department of Transportation has determined the deteriorating conditions of the highway stacks rule out its complete rehabilitation.

“The Mixmaster is going to have to be replaced,” Malloy said after chairing the bond commission meeting.​
Full report: http://www.rep-am.com/articles/2015/07/28/news/local/doc55b7c8742c52e017690365.txt

$ 10 billion (!) for an interchange replacement? My goodness they can construct *38* High Five Interchanges in Texas for that kind of money. What is wrong with the Northeast? :nuts:


----------



## browntown

ChrisZwolle said:


> What is wrong with the Northeast? :nuts:


The combination of Kafkaesque regulations and unions who get paid nearly $100/hr to work at a fraction of the pace that can be accomplished anywhere else in the country. I mean I have no problem with a guy wanting to get paid, but when you think 2 hours of real work is enough for a full day and you want overtime to get off your ass any more than that then I start having a problem. I say this as an engineer who just moved to the NorthEast and started to experience this shitshow first hand. Now I finally understand how all those infrastructure projects in places like New York and Boston end up costing 10x what they would in any other civilized country. :bash:


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## SounderBruce

*I-5/SR 525 in Lynnwood and Mountlake Terrace*

Southwest Snohomish County forms the core of Seattle's northern suburbs, where the growth of suburban sprawl continues to explode. The I-5 corridor in particular has filled out with retail (centered around Alderwood Mall, not pictured in this set) and will see light rail service beginning in 2023. It features an elaborate HOV system for buses and carpoolers, with 3 direct access ramps and several of the state's largest park-and-ride lots.

*236th Street SW (Mountlake Terrace Freeway Station)*

I-5 southbound from Mountlake Terrace TC by SounderBruce, on Flickr

Mountlake Terrace Freeway Station panorama by SounderBruce, on Flickr

I-5 southbound entering King County by SounderBruce, on Flickr

Mountlake Terrace Freeway Station from 236th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr

I-5 southbound looking north from 236th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr

STEX 9587C deadheading in Mountlake Terrace by SounderBruce, on Flickr

*164th Street SW*

This interchange, once the southern terminus of SR 525, features a half-completed HOV direct access ramp. The north side of the ramp (which serves Ash Way Park and Ride) has been the subject of a few small proposals over the years since it forces buses to/from Everett on ST Express route 512 to loop around the interchange.


I-5 southbound from 164th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 southbound from 164th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


CT 10800 passing CT 24409 near Ash Way P&R by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 northbound from 164th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 northbound from 164th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 northbound from 164th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr

*128th Street SW*


I-5 northbound from 128th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 northbound from 128th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 southbound looking north from 128th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 southbound from 128th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


Interurban Trail northbound from 128th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr

*SR 525 at 164th Street SW*


SR 525 southbound from 164th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


SR 525 northbound from 164th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


SR 525 northbound from 164th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


164th Street from Swamp Creek P&R by SounderBruce, on Flickr


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## hacci

Hi guys, I have some pics of the I-10 and the Florida's Turnpike, I'll bring them later.


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## Nexis

Interstate 110 in Los Angeles 


2015_06_19_ewr-lax_491z by Doc Searls, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ That's the Harbor Freeway (I-110).


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## I-275westcoastfl

Yeah thats south LA just north of Compton and Inglewood. I-10 runs east-west.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 635, LBJ Express, Dallas, TX*

The LBJ Express project is nearing completion, on time and on budget.


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## I-275westcoastfl

Its hard to believe that they built that within 3 years or so meanwhile any highway projects in my city run a decade or more.


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## FM 2258

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Its hard to believe that they built that within 3 years or so meanwhile any highway projects in my city run a decade or more.


At least in Texas if it's a tollway it gets built much much much faster, otherwise the standard time frame will be adhered to which is forever.


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## I-275westcoastfl

FM 2258 said:


> At least in Texas if it's a tollway it gets built much much much faster, otherwise the standard time frame will be adhered to which is forever.


True especially since most projects in Texas are tolled these days but still all road projects are built fairly quickly, at least in the Dallas area.


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## hacci

I like the streetlights there, they look way better than the usual ones they put in Texas.


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## I-275westcoastfl

hacci said:


> I like the streetlights there, they look way better than the usual ones they put in Texas.


Its hard to tell from those pics but they look like LED streetlights.


----------



## SounderBruce

*Interstate 705, Tacoma, WA*

The shortest and newest Interstate highway in Washington state, this tiny spur connects Tacoma to Interstate 5 on what some call a "glorified offramp".

*E 25th Street*


I-705 crossing over E 25th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-705 crossing over E 25th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr

*Bridge of Glass*

Native Tacoman and glass artist Dale Chihuly was commissioned to create a permanent museum for his medium of work in the 1990s. To connect the Museum of Glass to the rest of Tacoma's downtown, the city built an overpass over I-705 that is decorated with Chihuly works. It's worth the short walk from the nearby Union Station light rail stop.


I-705 northbound from Bridge of Glass by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-705 southbound from Bridge of Glass by SounderBruce, on Flickr


Tacoma skyline from Bridge of Glass by SounderBruce, on Flickr

*S 11th Street*


I-705 southbound from S 11th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-705 northbound from S 11th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr


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## rantanamo




----------



## Tom 958

Many times I've tried and failed to adequately photograph the I-285-Memorial Drive interchange in all of its vastly overblown glory. This time, though, I'm satisfied with the pics I took. Maybe it's just that my standards are falling.

Once upon a time, GDOT had a plan to add three lane collector-distributor roads to about seventy miles of freeways across the northern half of Atlanta, as was done with ON 401 in Toronto. There are quite a few places where visible provision for the CD's was made, but this site is both the most elaborate in terms of what the design would've been like if not for the CD's, and the most nonsensical in terms of timing: by the time this was built, it was abundantly clear that the regional CD system never would be.

I'm northbound on 285. Look at the size of those retaining walls on the left:



















Here you can see that in addition to the CD's, room has been made for a wider mainline, at least ten lanes with full shoulders. To my chagrin, the bay for the southbound CD has now been landscaped. I think that qualifies as the most expensive planter in the state. hno:










One-lane offramps now extend under the original (c. 1967) bridge carrying Rockbridge Road over 285. Doubling the width of the roadway envelope also essentially doubled the length of the ramps. Oh, well. At least they didn't replace that bridge, too.


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## Nexis

Interstate 280 in San Fransisco 


interstate 280 in San Francisco by t55z, on Flickr


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## Innsertnamehere

looks like it could use a paving job.


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## KIWIKAAS

I'm probably wrong, but it looks to me more like the 101 at Porter Hill. ?
I can't zoom in on that sign unfortunately


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## Tom 958

KIWIKAAS said:


> I'm probably wrong, but it looks to me more like the 101 at Porter Hill. ?
> I can't zoom in on that sign unfortunately


You're right. :banana:


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## [atomic]

^^ jep, its the 101 
https://goo.gl/maps/Skmqs


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## Tom 958

Last Sunday I took a short road trip to see the reversible toll roadway construction on I-75 in Henry County, south of Atlanta. And the new Lithonia bypass. And whatever. We'll just see what I get around to posting.

Starting with I-75: I decided to head from Lithonia via I-20, I-285 and I-675 to I-75, then make a U-turn back toward Atlanta at Locust Grove, where the Tanger Outlets are. 

This photo is of the new bridge carrying Walt Stephens Road over I-75 just south of the merge from I-675. The general traffic lanes will be moved to the right and the reversible roadway will, with one exception, be on the southbound side adjacent to the median. The new bridge is symmetrical about the centerline of 75 in order to preserve the option of building a second tolled roadway on the northbound side someday. IIRC, the fourth lane is relatively recent, with auxiliary lanes being added between 675 and Hudson Bridge Road within this decade. At first glance I was chagrined to see how similar what Google has was to my photo, but... look closer, Tom. The noise barrier in Streetview sits atop a wall with nothing on it in your pic. 










Next, Hudson Bridge Road. When this part of I-75 was built in the late '60's, this was two short bridges with a mound of earth between them. When the bridge was rebuilt, the earth mound was removed and the center span added. Of course, the reversible roadway will run through the center span. I don't remember, but this bridge must've been twinned at some point: it has eleven lanes now, which seems like a lot.










The Jodeco Road overpass has bays for two lane CD roads both northbound and southbound, but no obvious intent to ever build them. Apparently that's my theme for this week. hno:










Here's the Jonesboro Road bridge. Unsurprisingly, the reversible roadway and the relocated southbound roadway will take up all of the available room and still require some modest design exceptions (I read the project concept report a while back, but I'm too lazy to look it up now). 










I'm gonna go out of sequence and show the same bridge northbound. It and all other interchange bridges from GA 36 near Jackson to GA 54 at Morrow were replaced starting in the '90s-- hence the wide right side clearances.










This is the Mount Carmel Road bridge, which is the last surviving original bridge in the project area. I included it to give you an idea of the scale of the project out of nostalgia. :cheers1:










Headed back northbound, this is (I think) an access point to the reversible roadway. Here's Google's view to the east.










With Hudson Bridge Road in the distance, here's the one spot where the reversible roadway will run adjacent to the northbound lanes instead to the southbound, which surely will complicate future construction of a second roadway. IIRC from the project concept report, water quality in a stream running through the wide, wooded median was a factor in deciding to do it that way. You're kidding, right? :lol:










Approaching the I-675 split. Originally this wide median was provided in order to allow a left side entrance from GA 400 to I-75 southbound. Eventually 400 became I-675 and left hand entrances fell out of favor, so the median provided a bit of greenery-- until now. The diagrammatic (big arrow) sign... I guess it's new, being replaced with current generation signage before GDOT began its infatuation with APL signs. hno:










Last for now, the abutments for the ramps to I-675. Of course, that's the flyover for southbound 675 just beyond.


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## KIWIKAAS

Tom 958 said:


> You're right. :banana:


The clue was the topography, and obviously dated freeway with it's ad-hoc emergency stopping lane. The 280 is a better quality freeway and wider with central en side shoulders.
Btw, I meant Potrero hill but by mobile auto corected it to Porter for some reason.
Better luck picking the spot next time Nexis


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## Xusein

I guess the geography simply makes it impossible. I-5 south of downtown is basically on a slope until you reach the southern city limits. 

I-5 in Seattle proper is just a giant mess, I don't even know where to begin. The lack of access to the I-5 express lanes from either I-90 or 520 west was simply a bad bad idea. In the afternoon, you end up seeing the cars whizz on by in the express lanes northwards while the local lanes are jammed beyond belief.

Maybe it will be better when the light rail finally is extended north.


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## SounderBruce

Xusein said:


> I guess the geography simply makes it impossible. I-5 south of downtown is basically on a slope until you reach the southern city limits.
> 
> I-5 in Seattle proper is just a giant mess, I don't even know where to begin. The lack of access to the I-5 express lanes from either I-90 or 520 west was simply a bad bad idea. In the afternoon, you end up seeing the cars whizz on by in the express lanes northwards while the local lanes are jammed beyond belief.
> 
> Maybe it will be better when the light rail finally is extended north.


SR 520 is a giant mess, with it's left-hand ramps (causing a huge weave to Mercer Street and to a lesser extent on the Ship Canal Bridge coming from 45th). I'm deeply disappointed that WSDOT is not taking the opportunity to correct this major design flaw (which, as rumor has it, was designed to link up with the ill-fated Bay Freeway on Mercer Street), but can understand how hard they fought for what little funding they could get to complete the project.

I posted a small wishlist of what I'd like to see in the very necessary I-5 redevelopment project on the Seattle subforum's traffic/roads thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=126791428#post126791428


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## Xusein

Heh, I don't even take 520 because of the toll on the bridge. The Seattle section between I-5 and the bridge was poorly designed from the outset.


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## rantanamo




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## Rdx MG

^^
Incredible freeways


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## hacci

*So here are some pics from my last trip through I-10 from Tallahassee to Houston, I honestly expected more of Alabama which showed a very lower highway quality compared to FL, LA and TX. But anyways, your highways are cool, I like them *

*STARTING BETWEEN LAKE CITY AND TALLAHASSEE IN FL:*





This is almost in Pensacola, the quality of the highway in Florida is very good:



Here´s already Alabama near Mobile, this bridge has some very annoying traffic jams:


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## hacci

*Now skipping a long way because it was already dark, here are the bridges over all the bayous that Louisiana has, but before a pic of the highway when it goes through Baton Rouge:*


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## hacci

*Now finally inside Texas. I think Texas is the one with the best highays: All concrete, all big, it´s true, everything´s bigger in Texas hahaha.*







And finally in Houston. Before I used to think that all the I-10 in Houston was huge, but to the east it´s very old:



Now, I don´t get it... When does they started to put signs like this one? This one is in Mobile, looks better because in case of strong winds air can flow through the gaps in the sign, but it was the first time I saw them:



Have a great day ppl


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## Tom 958

hacci said:


> Now, I don´t get it... When does they started to put signs like this one? This one is in Mobile, looks better because in case of strong winds air can flow through the gaps in the sign, but it was the first time I saw them:



I think they're for glare protection. I saw another sign like this in Birmingham long ago, in the '80's. That's why only a few signs, the ones that are mounted at a glare-inducing angle, are like this.


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## zaphod

Great pics!

I've been this route a few times. Lived near Tallahasee for a while as a kid and our family would drive back to Texas. And also the vacations we'd take to Florida. I haven't been that way in a long time.

I remember those mesh signs. They have been there a long time. I thought they were to resist hurricane force winds. That area gets slammed- it took the brunt of Katrina, there was also George in the late 90s and Alberto before that. Also some of them had the old style reflective dot matrix signs on them with the old style font too.

It's raining in Pensacola in your pictures. For some reason all my memories of that part of Florida include it raining. I believe that area gets the highest amount of precipitation of any location in the continental US which is not a high elevation mountain slope. Because of the seabreeze im pretty sure it rains there like everyday.

IMO Louisiana had the worst roads in the past- they weren't paved well and made a rhythmic bump-a-bump-a-bump. Maybe under the blacktop there are concrete panels that are coming apart at the seams? It was annoying. Louisiana in general seems like a dump IMO. Everything looks poor, in a state of disrepair, and overgrown and weathered.

The tunnel in Mobile is my favorite part of this route! You should've snapped a picture! Mobile also has a nice skyline coming over the bay. It is a very small city but looks larger than it really is.

North Florida is also interesting. There are small hills around Crestview and a rest area near a bridge where the main lanes diverge a bit. If you get off I-10 and drive south to the coast east of Panama City there are some neat beaches and coastal towns that aren't really built up. Apalachicola, St. Georges Island, Carabelle, etc. Still remember swimming in the gulf there.

Love the highway over the swamps in Louisiana. As an awful kid I'd scare my sister by claiming an actual swamp monster lived there . To be honest that area is creepy. There are boats and people down in those bayous if you look carefully. Once I saw a barge ...fully engulfed in flames... down there. Not sure what the story was


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## ikops

I especially like all those bayou bridges. Makes me want to drive them one day.


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-69 Fishers, Indiana*

This roundabout interchange is coming to the I-69 / 106th Street interchange in Fishers, Indiana (A suburb of Indianapolis).


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## geogregor

Looks very UK-like


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## shasujka

Hi, 
I need your help. I'm looking for most insane interchange in USA based on few categories to put into my youtube vid.

Since there's too many complex stack interchanges, do you agree of my findings:

*most expensive*
1)Springfield Interchange, virginia:
- 676mil? USD pricetag, its the most expensive interchange in USA.
- consists of two interchange set in one.

*highest stack number in USA*
2) Judge Harry Pregerson Interchange:
- one among 5-level stack interchange in USA.
- it also integrates direct HOV connectors, Metro Green Line tracks, and the Harbor Transitway which makes it most complex.

What's your suggestions? Is there any better interchange for each categories?


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## VoltAmps

geogregor said:


> Looks very UK-like


UK has elevated roundabouts on top of highways?


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## Kanadzie

^^
yup


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## VoltAmps

Kanadzie said:


> ^^
> yup


Care to provide any proof? Because frankly I don't think it looks "UK" at all. Unless every round about in the world is a "UK" thing.


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## Kanadzie

^^
here is one (actually several on this stretch) -> https://www.google.com/maps/place/A...2!3m1!1s0x47d879e0d9a1cf43:0x86a938e193850340


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## vespafrederic

VoltAmps said:


> Care to provide any proof? Because frankly I don't think it looks "UK" at all. Unless every round about in the world is a "UK" thing.


I don't think so, if I'm correct in the UK they are using the wrong side of the roads... :nuts:


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## SounderBruce

It would make a good park lid if the center was filled and it was extended on both sides a bit.


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## keokiracer

VoltAmps said:


> Care to provide any proof? Because frankly I don't think it looks "UK" at all. Unless every round about in the world is a "UK" thing.


The UK is full of 'roundabout-elevated-over-highway' interchanges.


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## ChrisZwolle

SounderBruce said:


> It would make a good park lid if the center was filled and it was extended on both sides a bit.


In the median of a busy urban arterial? That seems like a waste of money.


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## Xusein

Fishers, IN is next to Carmel, which is apparently the roundabout "capital" of the US. 

http://www.pps.org/blog/carmel-indiana-roundabout-city-usa/

I think roundabouts are superior than traffic lights or stop signs on a street-level context, but I'm not sure if that translates well when dealing with a highway which has cars driving at full speed. At least they separated the righthand traffic from the roundabout entirely.


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Roundabouts are very common in Europe on roads with speed limits up to 55 or 60 mph.


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## geogregor

VoltAmps said:


> Care to provide any proof? Because frankly I don't think it looks "UK" at all. Unless every round about in the world is a "UK" thing.


Most of the motorway junctions (exits) in the UK are in the form or roundabout above or below the mainline (like the one in the graphic posted by ChrissZwolle). 

They are widespread around the country and their proportion in total number of junctions is higher than in any other country. You can find the sometimes in Spain or France on some lesser expressways but only in the UK such roundabouts are so prevalent.


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## LAYiddo

vespafrederic said:


> I don't think so, if I'm correct in the UK they are using the wrong side of the roads... :nuts:


I do love this type of thinking. Just because it's different doesn't mean it's "wrong".

:bash::bash::bash::bash:


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## vespafrederic

LAYiddo said:


> I do love this type of thinking. Just because it's different doesn't mean it's "wrong".
> 
> :bash::bash::bash::bash:


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## SounderBruce

ChrisZwolle said:


> In the median of a busy urban arterial? That seems like a waste of money.


They're quite common around the Seattle area and work pretty well at providing park space in places that don't have a lot of room otherwise for them.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 270 Chain of Rocks Canal Bridge, Illinois*

The construction of the new bridge and demolition of the old bridge over the years 2012-2015.


Chain of Rocks Canal Bridge Construction & Demolition 2012-2015 by Illinois Department of Transportation, on Flickr


Chain of Rocks Canal Bridge Construction & Demolition 2012-2015 by Illinois Department of Transportation, on Flickr


Chain of Rocks Canal Bridge Construction & Demolition 2012-2015 by Illinois Department of Transportation, on Flickr


Chain of Rocks Canal Bridge Construction & Demolition 2012-2015 by Illinois Department of Transportation, on Flickr


Chain of Rocks Canal Bridge Construction & Demolition 2012-2015 by Illinois Department of Transportation, on Flickr


Chain of Rocks Canal Bridge Construction & Demolition 2012-2015 by Illinois Department of Transportation, on Flickr


Chain of Rocks Canal Bridge Construction & Demolition 2012-2015 by Illinois Department of Transportation, on Flickr


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## sirfreelancealot

geogregor said:


> Most of the motorway junctions (exits) in the UK are in the form or roundabout above or below the mainline (like the one in the graphic posted by ChrissZwolle).
> 
> They are widespread around the country and their proportion in total number of junctions is higher than in any other country. You can find the sometimes in Spain or France on some lesser expressways but only in the UK such roundabouts are so prevalent.


Most of them are now signalised to become "gyratories". It's a bit of a cheap fix instead of massively upgrading junctions like this with direct links, because a lot of junctions like this serve high capacity roads that carry high volumes of traffic.


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## rantanamo




----------



## Nexis

Tappan Zee Bridge Construction Photos from today


New Tappan Zee Bridge Construction over the Hudson River by Corey Best, on Flickr


New Tappan Zee Bridge Construction over the Hudson River by Corey Best, on Flickr


New Tappan Zee Bridge Construction over the Hudson River by Corey Best, on Flickr


New Tappan Zee Bridge Construction over the Hudson River by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Seattle's highways need some upgrading but I think its really cool that certain sections of I-5 and I-90 communicate with you. They show lane closures, slowdowns, and variable speed limits.


----------



## Nexis

Do people actually follow those signs?


----------



## Xusein

Usually when they're activated, you'll end up going slower than the 30 mph that's usually posted in the non-carpool lanes anyway.


----------



## jchernin

They're putting those on I-80 in the East Bay leading up to the Bay Bridge.


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## I-275westcoastfl

Nexis said:


> Do people actually follow those signs?


People with sense do. I passed a lot of cars by switching lanes early. However people drive very chill here and I have my old east coast habits of immediately switching to the most efficient lane. :lol:



Xusein said:


> Usually when they're activated, you'll end up going slower than the 30 mph that's usually posted in the non-carpool lanes anyway.


I've learned 30mph means you'll be going under 20 mph lol.


----------



## flierfy

I-275westcoastfl said:


>


What's that 'Caution' supposed to mean? Yellow is actually the colour which indicates the instruction to merge. But then the arrow would look different.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

flierfy said:


> What's that 'Caution' supposed to mean? Yellow is actually the colour which indicates the instruction to merge. But then the arrow would look different.


It is telling motorists to be cautious since the HOV lane is closed ahead and that lane will be merging into the lane with the yellow arrow. Yellow is actually a color indicating caution in much of North America.


----------



## mcarling

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Yellow is actually a color indicating caution in much of North America.


... and all of the 80+ countries I've been to with traffic lights.


----------



## SounderBruce

Buffaboy said:


> Your avatar and username look familiar. Are you on another forum?


Several forums, including AARoads and the Canadian Public Transit Discussion Board (CPTDB).


----------



## Xusein

I-275westcoastfl said:


> The express lanes have done nothing to improve traffic, they actually made traffic worse! This photo must of been one of those lucky moments when traffic wasn't backed up. Maybe they took it before the express lanes opened although the toll lanes are still pretty empty. Traffic on the I-405 and I-5 has been terrible since they opened. People are avoiding the toll lanes and many are avoiding the 405 all together. My commute has increased 15-20 minutes on average since they opened (I drive on I-5). Thats also factoring in I've found shortcuts through residential neighborhoods so the commute time would have been even longer. I'm not a fan nor are many people around here.


It honestly depends on what you value more: money or time.

I've seen the HOT lanes personally and they are pretty empty, and they are only costing 75 cents so far. But they are empty because people still don't understand the system. I think as more people weigh the options, more will take the HOT lane and consequently the rates will increase. Tolls up to almost $4 each way at peak on the 520 bridge (almost $6 without a pass) doesn't seem to keep that highway empty.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Standard diamond interchange to DDI in Gwinnett County, GA (near Atlanta).


----------



## mcarling

^^
Please post two pics instead of a gif that switches back and forth so fast that nothing can be usefully seen.


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## keokiracer

^^ It's here. I presume you know how Google Earth works to find the older footage?


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## 00Zy99

keokiracer said:


> ^^ It's here. I presume you know how Google Earth works to find the older footage?


Not all of us have the computer/web power to use such programs. Or the skills to manipulate them even if we did.


----------



## keokiracer

If your lapto /pc can't handle Google Earth then I think you have serious problems with your laptop/pc 
Skills to manipulate them? All you do is click a button...


----------



## 00Zy99

keokiracer said:


> If your lapto /pc can't handle Google Earth then I think you have serious problems with your laptop/pc
> Skills to manipulate them? All you do is click a button...


And what about a tablet? In an area with poor internet?


----------



## keokiracer

Then you'd not even know what's going on cause you couldn't get the gif loaded.


----------



## 00Zy99

It loads, but it slows down my net.


----------



## geogregor

Just came back from another North American Trip when I have driven over 4500km across western Canada and USA

First two short movies from quite spectaacular Eastern Washington State

I-82 north of Yakima, speed x2:





I-90 eastbound coming to Wild Horse Monument on Columbia River, speed x3





I'm quite new to creating videos like this. What is a good speed of showing them? Real speed? x2? x3?


----------



## Suburbanist

I-405 in Los Angeles metro area


----------



## OakRidge

Windsor I-91 Bridges by VTrans, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis




----------



## jchernin

^ An interesting video, but technically The Alaskan Way Viaduct is not an Interstate.


----------



## Buffaboy

ChrisZwolle said:


> The reconstructed I-635 through Dallas.


This freeway turns underpasses into tunnels :hilarious!


----------



## smokiboy

Seems overly complicated.


----------



## rantanamo

smokiboy said:


> Seems overly complicated.


in what way?


----------



## smokiboy

I'm thinking a large (three lane) round-about could avoid some of the overpasses.


----------



## zaphod

That's an intersection with another major freeway(the Dallas North Tollway).

It's quite undersized for what it is. It may look like a conventional overpass but its not.


----------



## Koesj

smokiboy said:


> I'm thinking a large (three lane) round-about could avoid some of the overpasses.


A three-lane roundabout instead of a fully grade-separated interchange with its frontage road system on another level. I'm sure that'll do wonders for safety and traffic flow :cripes:


----------



## smokiboy

I am just a lay-person, but that seems like an awful lot of land used for an interchange. And I meant a raised round-about that can be used instead of the four cloverleafs.


----------



## keokiracer

The price of that land is apparently lower than the cost for constructing a floating roundabout.


----------



## rantanamo

smokiboy said:


> I am just a lay-person, but that seems like an awful lot of land used for an interchange. And I meant a raised round-about that can be used instead of the four cloverleafs.


while a conventional 5-level stack could be built, I think the reason it has not been done is because of how tight the single family neighborhood to the right of the photo would be to any flyover going from East to Southbound


----------



## Koesj

smokiboy said:


> I am just a lay-person, but that seems like an awful lot of land used for an interchange. And I meant a raised round-about that can be used instead of the four cloverleafs.


Which'd have way less capacity than what you're seeing right now. That frontage road intersection on the second level is pretty much a 'three-lane roundabout' in itself, capacity-wise. Add the turning lanes on the cloverleaf in the mix and you've got a much more varied picture.

Also it's a very tight cloverleaf, not any bigger in its footprint than the nearby High Five interchange. Is it an optimal solution? No, but like rantanamo said, a thorough rebuild would be very problematic.

I can appreciate that you're a layperson, however, some of the stuff you're thinking fly in the face of basic traffic engineering


----------



## Kanadzie

It looks strange how they put the frontage roads on those viaducts
I almost wonder if they were thinking in some years, put directional ramps over and then use the area of the loops for extra subcollector lanes


----------



## rantanamo

Kanadzie said:


> It looks strange how they put the frontage roads on those viaducts
> I almost wonder if they were thinking in some years, put directional ramps over and then use the area of the loops for extra subcollector lanes


Its hard to see from that angle, but the Dallas North Tollway corridor is very narrow, so they pretty much had to do that if they wanted to continue the frontage roads through the interchange. 

Here's a view looking south(the photo we're discussing faces east). You can see how much more narrow the corridor is in comparison to the I-635 corridor.









Hi-res : https://dfwfreeways.blob.core.windows.net/aerial/17a_dnt_looking_s_at_alpha_2005-04-11_2729x1714.png


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Cloverleafs, especially those with a 35 - 40 mph design speed, requires much more land than a stack interchange. These loop ramps are actually pretty tight. The average Dutch loop ramp has a 60% larger radius.

I think this cloverleaf interchange is a legacy issue. The Dallas North Tollway ended at I-635 for a long time. Apparently these loop ramps do not carry a whole lot of traffic. There are three north-south corridors within 7 miles, I-35E, DNT and US 75. I suppose there isn't a whole lot of traffic that turns off here, otherwise they likely would've been replaced by direct connectors. Maybe they don't want to make it too attractive for people using the I-35E and US 75 corridors to switch to the DNT for the last leg into Dallas.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

A visualization of Fort Worth's ongoing rebuild of I-35W


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V44G_-KBFy4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q2uO95wjU8


----------



## rantanamo

ChrisZwolle said:


> Cloverleafs, especially those with a 35 - 40 mph design speed, requires much more land than a stack interchange. These loop ramps are actually pretty tight. The average Dutch loop ramp has a 60% larger radius.
> 
> I think this cloverleaf interchange is a legacy issue. The Dallas North Tollway ended at I-635 for a long time. Apparently these loop ramps do not carry a whole lot of traffic. There are three north-south corridors within 7 miles, I-35E, DNT and US 75. I suppose there isn't a whole lot of traffic that turns off here, otherwise they likely would've been replaced by direct connectors. Maybe they don't want to make it too attractive for people using the I-35E and US 75 corridors to switch to the DNT for the last leg into Dallas.


What I'm referring to with regard to space is the narrow nature of the corridor south of the interchange. Any flyovers would essentially have to be built over the existing tollway. I'm guessing this is a resident issue. That's a pretty high priced neighborhood, and they were on the news several times complaining about the construction of I-635. No way they allow a flyover that doesn't have to somehow cantilever over the tollway. My commute was 90% I-635 from west of I-35E to east of US 75. Those ramps were often full and at a standstill and causing backup traffic. You probably have the same land issue with the Galleria in the northeast quadrant. Everything is so tight to that corridor, the ramps from west-north would have to essentially do the same cantilever


----------



## Xusein

I wouldn't be surprised if that entire interchange is totally redone eventually. Cloverleafs are generally outdated.


----------



## rantanamo

Xusein said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if that entire interchange is totally redone eventually. Cloverleafs are generally outdated.


see the previous posts. Lots of NIMBY action at that intersection. It would be really costly because of some unique engineering challenges.


----------



## Joshua Dodd




----------



## 00Zy99

Captions, please.


----------



## Suburbanist

I read that TxDOT is in serious financial disarray, having taking up too much debt with shady accounting practices, and overly optmistic assumptions about economic growth and thus toll revenue.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

The Horseshoe Project has already been financed. As for TxDOT, that is an issue they need to work out. But as for this project, it is already financed.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

00Zy99 said:


> Captions, please.


It is the I-30 / I-35E reconstruction in Dallas, TX. Also known as the Horseshoe Project (previously Project Pegasus).


----------



## Tom 958

keokiracer said:


> ^^ It's here. I presume you know how Google Earth works to find the older footage?


No, that's Ashford Dunwoody at 285. Chris posted Pleasant Hill at 85. You're literally not even in the right county.

Meanwhile, there the Atlanta area's third DDI, at Jimmy Carter Blvd and 85, more or less midway between the other two. I took this photo and posted it on Facebook on August 1, and it's still like this even though all the other work appears to have been completed. I dunno... maybe it's permanent. The rustic texture of the rotting plywood and rusting support brackets provides an interesting contrast with the crispness of the decorative metal structure and the colorful lushness of the landscaping.










EDIT: Google maps has pre-DDI aerial imagery, but check out how they mapped it. It's not really like that, lol.


----------



## Nexis

Ben Franklin Bridge / I-676 - philly side


IMG_0946 by Matt' Johnson, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

Some tower construction photos from Jazz Guy


West Point / Duke Football Hudson River Trip by Jazz Guy, on Flickr


West Point / Duke Football Hudson River Trip by Jazz Guy, on Flickr


West Point / Duke Football Hudson River Trip by Jazz Guy, on Flickr


----------



## Buffaboy

ChrisZwolle said:


> An update of the massive North Tarrant Express project along I-35W in Fort Worth.


There needs to be more public and private sector collaboration on these kinds of projects like this, so the public sector can regulate a little and help with incentives while the private sector moves them along at a quicker clip.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-435, Kansas City, KS*

A recent photo of the I-435 expansion in suburban Kansas City (Kansas side) between the K-10 and I-35 interchanges, looking east. There will be 15 freeway lanes here.


----------



## Penn's Woods

There are finally signs of construction - a couple of miles of new barriers and orange signs - on 95 where it crosses the Pennsylvania Turnpike.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 69, Kentucky*

*Governor Beshear Unveils New Red, White, Blue Highway Signs for Another 42 Miles of I-69 in Western Kentucky*

Gov. Steve Beshear, backed by federal highway officials and dozens of state and local leaders, today unveiled a shiny red, white and blue highway sign marking the long-sought designation of Interstate 69 for a section of the Edward T. Breathitt Pennyrile Parkway.

When complete, the I-69 corridor will run north to south from the Ohio River at Henderson to the Tennessee line at Fulton – approximately 155 miles. In addition to the Pennyrile Parkway, the corridor includes sections of I-24, the Wendell H. Ford Western Kentucky Parkway and the Julian M. Carroll Purchase Parkway.

The new I-69 designation applies to the northern leg of the Pennyrile Parkway – a 42.6-mile section from the Wendell H. Ford Western Kentucky Parkway to KY 425, south of Henderson. The FHWA conditionally approved its inclusion in the Interstate Highway System in August on the basis of improvements undertaken by the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet to bring it up to acceptable interstate standards.

Completion of the entire I-69 corridor in western Kentucky still requires improvements to approximately 52 miles of the Purchase Parkway from Fulton to Calvert City, a 1-mile section of roadway connecting Fulton to Mayfield and a 5-mile section from Henderson to the Indiana state line. No construction timeline has been announced for those sections.

The largest single challenge of the I-69 project has been reconstruction of interchanges built with short, tight ramps for traffic stopping at toll booths. With reconstruction, those interchanges will have the longer ramps and merge lanes needed for traffic entering and exiting 70 mph interstate traffic.​
Full press release: http://kentucky.gov/Pages/Activity-Stream.aspx?viewMode=ViewDetailInNewPage&eventID={E949B67F-08A6-43A8-AF80-CAD547FA82E6}&activityType=PressRelease

The real 'largest single challenge' of the I-69 project would be of course to construct a large new bridge across the Ohio River.


----------



## xzmattzx

Penn's Woods said:


> There are finally signs of construction - a couple of miles of new barriers and orange signs - on 95 where it crosses the Pennsylvania Turnpike.


For the new interchange there?


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^I assume so.

There have been media reports in the last few months that it's starting. Work on the Turnpike started some time ago. I saw a step-by-step timeline of the whole project somewhere.

Can't actually see what's going on on 95, though, because of the barriers. I'm through there a couple of times a month on 95; haven't been on that piece of the Turnpike in eons.

EDIT: Here's what's going on, I think:

https://www.patpconstruction.com/paturnpikei95/current-sectiond20.aspx

I was through there last night.


----------



## Jschmuck

Jschmuck said:


> New I-95/I-276 interchange connection construction in eastern Pennsylvania, pic by me;


You must have missed this pic by me back in June Penn's Woods...


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Haven't been here much...

:cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*diverging diamond interchange*

A number of new DDIs opened this month. The interchange's popularity is really picking up now.

*Iowa*
The state's first DDI opens to traffic along I-80 and Grand Prairie Parkway just west of Des Moines on December 1st. It is a brand new interchange, not a reconstruction. The overpass was already finished for some time.

*Texas*
A DDI opened on November 20th. along I-35 and RM 1431 in Round Rock, a northern suburb of Austin. DDIs are less ideal in Texas because without bypasses, the frontage roads would become non-continuous. In this case, bypasses were constructed for the frontage road.s

*Indiana*
Indiana's second DDI was inaugurated on November 23 in Greenwood, a southern suburb of Indianapolis. It is a new interchange.

*Missouri*
In the birthplace of the American DDI, in Springfield, Missouri, a new DDI was finished along US 65. It was already opened since February, even when construction was still ongoing. It was completed recently.

*Michigan*
Michigan's first DDI opened on November 10 in Auburn Hills, a northern suburb of Detroit. It is located along I-75.

*New Mexico*
New Mexico also started construction on its first DDI along I-25 in Santa Fe.

*Florida*
Florida's first DDI is under construction in Sarasota. With 5 through lanes in each direction, it is also the biggest DDI in the U.S.

*Illinois*
A new DDI opened to traffic on September 21 in Naperville, a western suburb of Chicago. It is located along I-88.


----------



## SounderBruce

The worst traffic bottlenecks in the U.S., according to the American Highway Users Alliance: http://www.highways.org/2015/11/unclogging-study2015/


----------



## siamu maharaj

No wonder Chicago's at the top. There really should be a highway that bypasses that point. Probably in place of Cicero Ave. That obviously can never happen in this day and age.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-95/395 express lanes*

http://www.virginiadot.org/newsroom/statewide/2015/gov._mcauliffe_announces_major88511.asp

Some news regarding the North Virginia express lanes.

The I-95 express lanes will be extended south by 2 miles to past the Garrisonville Road interchange. That way traffic using the express lanes and wishing to continue / coming from I-95 doesn't have to weave with traffic exiting or entering from Garrisonville Road anymore. 

Currently southbound traffic on the express lanes that wishes to continue on I-95 enters the general purpose lanes from the right, meaning they have to weave with traffic exiting to Garrisonvile Road. This is a high volume exit.
Also, northbound traffic from Garrisonville Road to the express lanes has to cross three general purpose lanes to enter the northbound express lanes. 

This appears to be somewhat of a design flaw, perhaps they did not anticipate this much weaving. The Garrisonvile Road interchange serves the southernmost suburbs of Washington with lots of residential and commercial developments.


25 miles to the north, the existing I-395 reversible HOV lanes will be widened from two to three lanes, effectively extending the express lanes all the way from Aquia to the D.C. line.

Construction on the I-95 express lane extension will start in 2016, and construction on the I-395 express lanes will start in 2017.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-65, Louisville, KY*

Paving has started on the new I-65 Ohio River Bridge in Louisville, Kentucky. The new bridge will open to traffic next month.


----------



## mcarling

siamu maharaj said:


> No wonder Chicago's at the top. There really should be a highway that bypasses that point. Probably in place of Cicero Ave. That obviously can never happen in this day and age.


As the cost of TBMs continues to come down, it will make sense to bypass that whole stretch with a 2x3 bypass for through traffic inside a 20 meter diameter tunnel. It could be tolled to pay for the construction costs.


----------



## Penn's Woods

siamu maharaj said:


> No wonder Chicago's at the top. There really should be a highway that bypasses that point. Probably in place of Cicero Ave. That obviously can never happen in this day and age.


The thing about Chicago is Lake Michigan. All sorts of trajectories - Grand Rapids or Milwaukee, say; or Toronto to Minneapolis - that would pass well north of Chicago if the lake weren't there have to go through it. Would a freeway across upper Michigan be a totally insane idea? You could convert the Trans-Canada into freeway from Carleton Place to Sault Saint Marie, jump across to Michigan, then head west to the Twin Cities....


----------



## SounderBruce

mcarling said:


> As the cost of TBMs continues to come down, it will make sense to bypass that whole stretch with a 2x3 bypass for through traffic inside a 20 meter diameter tunnel. It could be tolled to pay for the construction costs.


Coming from a city that's building a bypass with a TBM that large: You don't want that.

If you're going to build, use smaller tunnels, separated for each direction. Even then, it won't work out to being in the black by a long shot.


----------



## mcarling

SounderBruce said:


> Coming from a city that's building a bypass with a TBM that large: You don't want that.
> 
> If you're going to build, use smaller tunnels, separated for each direction. Even then, it won't work out to being in the black by a long shot.


Actually, you really do want one large tunnel. It was not Bertha's fault that no one moved a pipe out of her way. The Orlovski Tunnel in St Petersburg, Russia, is being bored with a TBM bigger than Bertha and it's going fine. TBM technology is continuing to improve.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

mcarling said:


> Actually, you really do want one large tunnel. It was not Bertha's fault that no one moved a pipe out of her way. The Orlovski Tunnel in St Petersburg, Russia, is being bored with a TBM bigger than Bertha and it's going fine. TBM technology is continuing to improve.


A boring machine should have been designed to be able to handle a pipe. Especially in a city like Seattle where that area of downtown is built on filled land, there may be all sorts of debris down there. BERTHA was also built to be re-used again unlike most boring machines where they just drive off the path and leave it below. Incompetence and greed, big reason why many big US infrastructure projects go over cost and behind schedule.


----------



## Buffaboy

SounderBruce said:


> Coming from a city that's building a bypass with a TBM that large: You don't want that.
> 
> 
> 
> If you're going to build, use smaller tunnels, separated for each direction. Even then, it won't work out to being in the black by a long shot.



As much as tunnels will be in demand in the coming years, I should get a PhD in tunnel-boring efficiency.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The astronomical cost of some west coast and east coast projects could turn the tide of public opinion against large bridge and tunnel projects. Just look at the cost of the infamous 'Big Dig' in Boston, the bridges in New York or the east span of the San Francisco - Oakland Bay Bridge. 

However in the U.S. Heartland, such projects are much cheaper. What Texas build at relatively low cost is just mind-boggling compared to the northeast or west coast.


----------



## smokiboy

Just drove from Toronto to Philadelphia and went basically via I380, I86, I81, & I476. Any plans for a corridor in this region? Coming from Philly or NYC the route is fairly direct to Scranton, after that there is no direct route.


----------



## browntown

ChrisZwolle said:


> The astronomical cost of some west coast and east coast projects could turn the tide of public opinion against large bridge and tunnel projects. Just look at the cost of the infamous 'Big Dig' in Boston, the bridges in New York or the east span of the San Francisco - Oakland Bay Bridge.
> 
> However in the U.S. Heartland, such projects are much cheaper. What Texas build at relatively low cost is just mind-boggling compared to the northeast or west coast.


As you say, it's simply no comparison between the coasts and the rest of the country. The liberal coastal states all have much more complex regulations and much stronger unions both of which drive costs to astronomical levels.


----------



## Buffaboy

smokiboy said:


> Just drove from Toronto to Philadelphia and went basically via I380, I86, I81, & I476. Any plans for a corridor in this region? Coming from Philly or NYC the route is fairly direct to Scranton, after that there is no direct route.


I-99 is probably the most likely option to occur in the near future. In general, Continental 1 isn't getting anywhere off the ground, so North-south travel from Buffalo will remain limited.


----------



## Kanadzie

smokiboy said:


> Just drove from Toronto to Philadelphia and went basically via I380, I86, I81, & I476. Any plans for a corridor in this region? Coming from Philly or NYC the route is fairly direct to Scranton, after that there is no direct route.


I used US-219 to Buffalo for that connection, one time to I-81 and the other time further down... I-81 is impressively open, you can probably go faster for longer on that PA I-81 than on any Autobahn... I thought 219 was pretty decent or at least it didn't bother me _that _much, and approaching Buffalo the road was rebuilt recently to a motorway. But it seems relatively windy and there is a lack of passing opportunities.


----------



## browntown

Kanadzie said:


> I used US-219 to Buffalo for that connection, one time to I-81 and the other time further down... I-81 is impressively open, you can probably go faster for longer on that PA I-81 than on any Autobahn... I thought 219 was pretty decent or at least it didn't bother me _that _much, and approaching Buffalo the road was rebuilt recently to a motorway. But it seems relatively windy and there is a lack of passing opportunities.


I-81 is wide open all the way to Tennessee.


----------



## xzmattzx

I drive from Delaware to Buffalo every year, having done it since I was a kid. Easily the best way from Delaware is to head around Lancaster and Harrisburg, then take US 15 up through Williamsport to Corning, and then taking I-86 to I-390, and then taking US 20A to East Aurora.

Philly is slightly different, and nothing is too direct. You got much of it right. Both the Pennsylvania Turnpike (in your case, Harrisburg to Philadelphia) or the PA Turnpike Northeast Extension are prone to standstill traffic jams because both lanes in one direction can get clogged up from an accident. To me, the best route without using any of the PA Turnpike roads, and/or the best free route, is probably to take US 15 down to Harrisburg, then take PA 283 to Lancaster, and then take US 30 east. It's a surface road going through some suburbia and then being the major arterial in some farmland, all for almost 20 miles, but then it becomes an expressway near West Chester, and goes past King of Prussia to Norristown.

The PA Turnpike from Harrisburg to Philadelphia is more direct than going down to Lancaster and east to West Chester, though, and I think it's a little cheaper than the Northeast Extension in its entirety from Scranton.


----------



## Buffaboy

xzmattzx said:


> I drive from Delaware to Buffalo every year, having done it since I was a kid. Easily the best way from Delaware is to head around Lancaster and Harrisburg, then take US 15 up through Williamsport to Corning, and then taking I-86 to I-390, and then taking US 20A to East Aurora.
> 
> 
> 
> Philly is slightly different, and nothing is too direct. You got much of it right. Both the Pennsylvania Turnpike (in your case, Harrisburg to Philadelphia) or the PA Turnpike Northeast Extension are prone to standstill traffic jams because both lanes in one direction can get clogged up from an accident. To me, the best route without using any of the PA Turnpike roads, and/or the best free route, is probably to take US 15 down to Harrisburg, then take PA 283 to Lancaster, and then take US 30 east. It's a surface road going through some suburbia and then being the major arterial in some farmland, all for almost 20 miles, but then it becomes an expressway near West Chester, and goes past King of Prussia to Norristown.
> 
> 
> 
> The PA Turnpike from Harrisburg to Philadelphia is more direct than going down to Lancaster and east to West Chester, though, and I think it's a little cheaper than the Northeast Extension in its entirety from Scranton.



Ideally I would actually make I-86 go to East Aurora via this plan I created.


----------



## Xusein

ChrisZwolle said:


> The astronomical cost of some west coast and east coast projects could turn the tide of public opinion against large bridge and tunnel projects. Just look at the cost of the infamous 'Big Dig' in Boston, the bridges in New York or the east span of the San Francisco - Oakland Bay Bridge.
> 
> However in the U.S. Heartland, such projects are much cheaper. What Texas build at relatively low cost is just mind-boggling compared to the northeast or west coast.





browntown said:


> As you say, it's simply no comparison between the coasts and the rest of the country. The liberal coastal states all have much more complex regulations and much stronger unions both of which drive costs to astronomical levels.


A lot less natural barriers too. Texas is mostly flat and has plenty of land to spare, not so much in Seattle where land is at a premium. Frankly I think a major problem in this area is that it was simply not designed to be as big as it ended up becoming.


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

New Detroit River's bridge:



scolls said:


> Howe Bridge could be one of 5 longest in North America
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The planned Gordie Howe International Bridge that will span the Detroit River to Windsor could end up as the tallest or second-tallest structure in the region, rivaling the height of the Renaissance Center and creating a dramatic new architectural icon on the skyline.
> 
> There are two possible designs — a suspension bridge like the Ambassador or a newer model known as a cable-stayed bridge that looks like a giant A-frame with cables fanning out from two towers. Final design will be left to the architectural team that has the winning bid from a group of interested international firms already winnowed down to six. The winning team will be selected late next year.
> 
> New design details are emerging that show the two bridge towers rising to a height of up to 250 meters, or about 750 feet. The bridge deck itself that will carry traffic could rise 150 feet above the river to allow for clear ship navigation — about as high as downtown Detroit's One Campus Martius building, the former Compuware headquarters.
> 
> The total length of the bridge and its approaches will be about 2 miles, making it one of the five longest bridges in North América.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.freep.com/story/money/business/michigan/2015/11/28/windsor-detroit-bridge/76303382/
Click to expand...


----------



## hammersklavier

Buffaboy said:


> I-99 is probably the most likely option to occur in the near future. In general, Continental 1 isn't getting anywhere off the ground, so North-south travel from Buffalo will remain limited.


Having done that earlier this year, I think that the biggest need is actually for a highwway between Batavia and Geneseo, NY here. The current Southern Tier alignment isn't too bad, and with US-15 being apparently re-signed I-99 you can go I-99 - I-180 - I-80 back to the Northeast Extension at Hickory Run, but it just seems really strange to me that there is no _direct route_ between Buffalo and Corning -- right now you have to go out of your way to freaking Rochester instead.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The height of the Gordie Howe International Bridge is dependent on the chosen design. A cable-stayed bridge requires taller towers for the same span than a suspension bridge. The main span is quoted as 850 m / 2788 ft. It would be by far the longest cable-stayed bridge in the U.S. if this design is chosen. The John James Audubon Bridge in Louisiana has a main span of 482 m / 1581 ft, while the planned Corpus Christi Harbor Bridge has a main span of 504 m / 1655 ft. In fact, it would be among the top 10 longest cable-stayed bridges in the world, similar to the Pont de Normandie in France.


----------



## Penn's Woods

browntown said:


> I-81 is wide open all the way to Tennessee.


That Harrisburg (Pa.)-to-Winchester (Va.) stretch can be very busy with trucks. So much so that the last time I was on it on a Sunday I found myself thinking a German-style Sunday truck ban would be welcome.


----------



## xzmattzx

Penn's Woods said:


> That Harrisburg (Pa.)-to-Winchester (Va.) stretch can be very busy with trucks. So much so that the last time I was on it on a Sunday I found myself thinking a German-style Sunday truck ban would be welcome.


Makes sense that I-81 was a little heavy through that area. Anyone going from New England/New York/New Jersey to the inland southern states can use I-81 to go around the crazy traffic of I-95, the New Jersey Turnpike, the Capital Beltway around DC, etc.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Of course! I'm just saying I wouldn't describe it as wide open.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-35E St Paul, MN*

Two tolled lanes, called 'MnPass lanes' opened to traffic today in St. Paul, Minnesota. There is one toll lane in each direction between I-94 near downtown and I-694 in Little Canada.

The new express lanes feature dynamic tolling to keep the lane free-flow. It wasn't a cheap addition, they rebuilt the whole freeway and added a fourth lane. A section was also realigned. 










There is a lot of criticism for MnDOT on Twitter today. Apparently they did not salt the roads for some snowfall. People report 3 hour commutes for what would normally take 20 minutes.


----------



## Penn's Woods

How do you pronounce "MnPass"? Or "MnDOT" for that matter?

"men-pass"? "min-pass"?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

From what I've heard on news reports, it's 'minn-pass' and 'minn-DOT'.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-90/94 Chicago, IL*

The 'Dan Ryan' in 1964. It is considered the world's first superhighway. Highway 401 in Toronto was modeled after it.


----------



## siamu maharaj

ChrisZwolle said:


> The 'Dan Ryan' in 1964. It is considered the world's first superhighway. Highway 401 in Toronto was modeled after it.


Must've been quite a sight to behold back in 64.


----------



## geogregor

I-5 in Washington State

DSC01008 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01011 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01012 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01013 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01014 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## TM_Germany

Dan Ryan is/was an amazing freeway. We barely had any 6-laned Autobahnen in Germany back in the day.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-65, Abraham Lincoln Bridge, Louisville, KY*

The new Abraham Lincoln Bridge opens to traffic next Monday, December 7, at 5 a.m. for northbound traffic.

Left: John F. Kennedy Memorial Bridge (1963)
Right: Abraham Lincoln Bridge (2015)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-5, Tacoma, WA*

I-5 gets a new bridge across the Puyallup River in Tacoma. I'm not sure if it is a widening or replacement.


Progress on new NB I-5 Puyallup River Bridge by Washington State Dept of Transportation, on Flickr


New Puyallup River Bridge on NB I-5 Tacoma by Washington State Dept of Transportation, on Flickr


----------



## Kanadzie

ChrisZwolle said:


> The new Abraham Lincoln Bridge opens to traffic next Monday, December 7, at 5 a.m. for northbound traffic.
> 
> Left: John F. Kennedy Memorial Bridge (1963)
> Right: Abraham Lincoln Bridge (2015)


It's curious (though understandable) how the old bridge was named after a very very recent president and the new bridge is named after a very very long-departed president :lol:


----------



## Xusein

I-5 in Tacoma is just a giant mess. Construction will apparently go on for several years, they seem to be building the entire freeway up from scratch.


----------



## mcarling

Xusein said:


> I-5 in Tacoma is just a giant mess. Construction will apparently go on for several years, they seem to be building the entire freeway up from scratch.


Construction is taking place in stages to minimize the impact on traffic, but yes it is a mess because they waited until I-5 was a parking lot before getting started with a serious capacity increase.

I-5 could get some relief by upgrading US97 between Klamath Falls and Yakima.


----------



## geogregor

Entering I-5 heading from Everett to Seattle:

DSC01020 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01021 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01022 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Strange layout of the lanes with left ending at traffic lights and right heading to the freeway:

DSC01023 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Actually it is the middle lane heading to the I-5 as the right one is leading to some local road. Strange layout, I can see people caught by surprise.

DSC01024 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

I-5 towards Seattle:

DSC01025 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Exiting to Seattle:

DSC01027 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01028 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> I-5 gets a new bridge across the Puyallup River in Tacoma. I'm not sure if it is a widening or replacement.


It's a replacement. This rendering imposed on a photo shows both the existing bridges without traffic and the future bridges with traffic. The northbound bridge which is now under construction should be completed in 2017. Then construction will begin on the southbound bridge, which should take another three years. Each bridge will have four general purpose lanes plus one HOV lane. Shoulders will be wider and seismic standards higher than the existing bridges, which will be demolished.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Kanadzie said:


> It's curious (though understandable) how the old bridge was named after a very very recent president and the new bridge is named after a very very long-departed president :lol:


I noticed that...but Lincoln was born in one of the states involved (Kentucky...and only about 50 miles from Louisville) and grew up in both.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ Curiously we had a similar situation in Quebec City
A new bridge (for A-73 over the St Lawrence River) was under construction when a prominent provincial government minister was kidnapped and later murdered by Marxist/separatist terrorists. When the bridge opened to traffic is was named for him (Pierre-Laporte Bridge).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A 'Walk the Bridge' event on the new Abraham Lincoln Bridge (I-65) in Louisville.


----------



## hammersklavier

ChrisZwolle said:


> A 'Walk the Bridge' event on the new Abraham Lincoln Bridge (I-65) in Louisville.


So the plan is to pair the Abe Lincoln Bridge with the JFK Bridge? Are they planning on replacing the older span?

(The signage suggests the new bridge will be one-way.)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The final configuration will be 6 lanes in each direction, so yes, the Abraham Lincoln Bridge will only carry northbound traffic. However apparently they do have a temporary two-way traffic on the bridge for renovation / reconfiguration of the John F. Kennedy Bridge. The bridges will also be tolled, starting in late 2016.

The need for twelve lanes on this crossing has been questioned, as traffic volumes are not really high (93,000 vehicles per day) and because they are constructing another bridge east of Louisville that will link the I-265 gap, thus directing some traffic away from I-65.


----------



## Nexis

New Jersey Turnpike Eastern Spur Bridge over the Hackensack River ; Photo from Russell Sullivan 


Snake Hill by Russell Sullivan, on Flickr


----------



## SounderBruce

Does the new bridge even have a bike trail/walking path?


----------



## tjfd88

There is the Big Four pedestrian bridge very close to the new span for pedestrian/bicycle use with connections to Jeffersonville and Louisville on both ends.


----------



## Buffaboy

Nexis said:


> New Jersey Turnpike Eastern Spur Bridge over the Hackensack River ; Photo from Russell Sullivan
> 
> 
> Snake Hill by Russell Sullivan, on Flickr


Those piers just vaguely resemble the supports of the new Tappan Zee Br.


----------



## OakRidge

Interstate 70 - Denver, Colorado @ https://www.flickr.com/photos/coloradodot/22896504753/


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Interesting how the snow hasn't melted in the shadow of the interstate bridge..


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Innsertnamehere said:


> Interesting how the snow hasn't melted in the shadow of the interstate bridge..


Thats very common, the shadow allows for cold from the snow to insulate itself and allows it to melt slower. Here in Washinton you'd see snow on one side of the mountain in the shadows and none on the other lol.



geogregor said:


> Entering I-5 heading from Everett to Seattle:
> Geogregor*, on Flickr


Those first pics are basically a few miles away from me.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

^I'm aware of the physics behind it. You see it in Toronto every spring, I just think its a neat phenomenon.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Innsertnamehere said:


> ^I'm aware of the physics behind it. You see it in Toronto every spring, I just think its a neat phenomenon.


Oh ok.. Sorry lol. I agree!


----------



## geogregor

I-5 heading from Mount St Helens to Portland:

DSC01067 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01071 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01072 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01073 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01074 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01075 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01076 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01077 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## geogregor

DSC01078 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01079 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01080 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01081 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01083 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01084 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01085 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01087 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I believe that's considered one of the most critical bridges in the Northwest. An earthquake could apparently take it out easily. There were plans to replace it, but that went nowhere.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Innsertnamehere said:


> ^I'm aware of the physics behind it. You see it in Toronto every spring, I just think its a neat phenomenon.


I broke a wrist on ice under an overpass last March....


----------



## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> I believe that's considered one of the most critical bridges in the Northwest. An earthquake could apparently take it out easily. There were plans to replace it, but that went nowhere.


The Colombia River Crossing was doomed by Oregon's instance that it include an extension into Washington state of Portland's failed MAX (a small tram meant to cover S-bahn distances) which residents in Vancouver, Washington overwhelmingly do not want. That inclusion 1) drove up the cost, 2) encroached on the already tight limits of shipping clearance below and aircraft clearance above the bridge, and 3) generated opposition from Vancouver residents.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Fun fact, both the John F. Kennedy Bridge and the new Abraham Lincoln Bridge opened to traffic on December 6. The JFK Bridge in 1963 and the Lincoln Bridge in 2015.


----------



## Highway89

ChrisZwolle said:


> Fun fact, both the John F. Kennedy Bridge and the new Abraham Lincoln Bridge opened to traffic on December 6. The JFK Bridge in 1963 and the Lincoln Bridge in 2015.


Another coincidence! :shifty:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln–Kennedy_coincidences_urban_legend


About interstate spur routes (from the other American thread): Is it possible to have two different spurs with the same number? I. e. two different I-270.

Edit: OK, I see it's not only possible but also not uncommon at all: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_auxiliary_Interstate_Highways


----------



## 00Zy99

mcarling said:


> The Colombia River Crossing was doomed by Oregon's instance that it include an extension into Washington state of Portland's failed MAX (a small tram meant to cover S-bahn distances) which residents in Vancouver, Washington overwhelmingly do not want. That inclusion 1) drove up the cost, 2) encroached on the already tight limits of shipping clearance below and aircraft clearance above the bridge, and 3) generated opposition from Vancouver residents.


hno::bash:

MAX is hardly failed, given its continuous expansion. And its hardly "small" either. There was some initial NIMBYism along the early lines, but that has since subsided. It is quite certain that that would have happened here. Alas, people can be very short-sighted.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The criticism I've read is that Portland has spent billions on light rail without improving the modal share of transit.


----------



## 00Zy99

ChrisZwolle said:


> The criticism I've read is that Portland has spent billions on light rail without improving the modal share of transit.


And I've read the exact opposite. If they weren't improving the modal share, why are all of the developments concentrating along the rail lines?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Apparently the number of bus users dropped by the same amount, keeping the modal share more or less level.


----------



## hammersklavier

ChrisZwolle said:


> Apparently the number of bus users dropped by the same amount, keeping the modal share more or less level.


Keep in mind that the core bus network's frequency was reduced as an effect of the Great Recession ... This change in frequency (from 15 min to 20 min) is not insignificant for transit users: it's the difference between being okay with just going to a stop and waiting and getting frustrated when a bus is nowhere to be found.

You're arguing about apples and oranges when the issue at hand was caused by a cantaloupe!


----------



## 00Zy99

hammersklavier said:


> Keep in mind that the core bus network's frequency was reduced as an effect of the Great Recession ... This change in frequency (from 15 min to 20 min) is not insignificant for transit users: it's the difference between being okay with just going to a stop and waiting and getting frustrated when a bus is nowhere to be found.
> 
> You're arguing about apples and oranges when the issue at hand was caused by a cantaloupe!


Also note that some of these service cuts are being reversed now for precisely this reason.

Furthermore, it's worthwhile to note that you have to pay attention to the source of your information because everybody (even that algae in your neighbor's swimming pool) has an agenda and some sources may be biased *cough*Reason, Heritage, Cato*cough*.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't understand why U.S. transportation statistics focus so much on commuting. Travel to and from work is only a portion of all travel, typically around a quarter all miles traveled, but between 15 and 20 percent of all trips.


----------



## SounderBruce

MAX is hardly a failure, though it could have been planned much better (room for 4-car trains, concrete plans for a downtown tunnel to avoid running in the streets, etc.). Vancouver made a huge mistake by rejecting an easy buy-in into a fairly robust light rail system at very little cost to them.

Hopefully a second iteration of the CRC is proposed soon. To avoid the mistakes of the first, I'd build it with the same number of general-purpose lanes, added HOV lane for buses, a bike trail, and most importantly additional space to eventually add light rail or other features. This is how WSDOT managed to appease Seattle's rich suburbs when replacing the SR 520 floating bridge, though they had to build some capped lids/parks first.



ChrisZwolle said:


> I don't understand why U.S. transportation statistics focus so much on commuting. Travel to and from work is only a portion of all travel, typically around a quarter all miles traveled, but between 15 and 20 percent of all trips.


Because the majority of longer distances are daily commutes. So it's much more noticeable than the occasional trip to the store or out in the woods.


----------



## hammersklavier

00Zy99 said:


> Furthermore, it's worthwhile to note that you have to pay attention to the source of your information because everybody (even that algae in your neighbor's swimming pool) has an agenda and some sources may be biased *cough*Reason, Heritage, Cato*cough*.


Well...given that my source was the guy who designed the network... :cheers:


----------



## mcarling

SounderBruce said:


> MAX is hardly a failure....


MAX has cost billions of dollars (not counting the cost of a brand-new firetruck it destroyed) and not shifted people from private cars to public transit. That is a failure by any standard. Spending 1/10 the money that has been spent on MAX could have instead been used to triple the bus fleet -- and with modern comfortable eco-friendly buses.



SounderBruce said:


> Vancouver made a huge mistake by rejecting an easy buy-in into a fairly robust light rail system at very little cost to them.


Vancouver avoided a huge mistake by rejecting an outrageously expensive light rail system with all the disadvantages of an urban tram combined with all the disadvantages of suburban commuter rail. MAX is slow, stops are widely spaced, and runs infrequently. I'm a fan of rail, but MAX is the worst implementation I can think of anywhere on the planet.



SounderBruce said:


> Hopefully a second iteration of the CRC is proposed soon.


Here we agree. The reality is that everyone is waiting until 2017, when the northbound span will be 100 years old. Then we'll see renewed calls to replace the Interstate Bridge.



SounderBruce said:


> To avoid the mistakes of the first, I'd build it with ... and most importantly additional space to eventually add light rail or other features.


Space for MAX was the major mistake of the CRC and the source of all the opposition in Vancouver. It made the bridge too expensive and too tall (from the bottom of the deck to the top) so it restricted the important shipping channel below. Building the bridge higher was not an option because of the PDX flight path over the bridge. The only sane options for rail (MAX isn't sane anywhere) are to either put it in a tunnel or move it farther west where the flight path is not a constraint.


----------



## Kanadzie

ChrisZwolle said:


> I don't understand why U.S. transportation statistics focus so much on commuting. Travel to and from work is only a portion of all travel, typically around a quarter all miles traveled, but between 15 and 20 percent of all trips.


I think PT is pretty limited for non-commuting trips. I mean who would go grocery shopping on PT if you own a car.


----------



## geogregor

As we are discussing Portland here are some freeways of Portland:
I-405

P9232287 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P9232289 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Stuck in traffic trying to head east into Columbia River Gorge:

DSC01088 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01089 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01090 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01091 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01092 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01094 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## sponge_bob

2 years ago this week TBM Bertha (then and maybe still the worlds biggest TBM) ran into a steel pipe in Seattle WA after only 10% of the bore was done and this caused a lot of damage to the TBM.

It THEN took until 2015 to dig her out for repairs and as of yesterday she was 2 full years out of commission.

She HAS been repaired and is due to restart tunneling any day now. 

This is a pic of a Finished tunnel segment...some monster.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

What's the tunnel for?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ It replaces the Alaskan Way Viaduct in Seattle (SR-99).


----------



## ukraroad

It looks like an underground speed track in shape... How will they make it further to normal road?


----------



## zaphod

ukraroad said:


> It looks like an underground speed track in shape... How will they make it further to normal road?


From wikipedia


----------



## siamu maharaj

Only two lanes?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-65, Indiana*

* Governor Pence Announces Plans to Widen Heavily-Traveled I-65 in Lake County*

Governor Mike Pence today announced plans to widen Interstate 65 in Lake County to three lanes in each direction from Merrillville south to at least State Road 2 (Exit 240) near Lowell. This project is part of Governor Pence’s Major Moves 2020 highway program, which is fast tracking the widening and rehabilitation of heavily-traveled highways across the state.

The budget for this plan is $70 million. Funding would come from the Major Moves 2020 program, which was increased in the most recent biennial budget.​
Full press release: http://www.in.gov/activecalendar/Ev...formation_id=234511&type=&syndicate=syndicate


----------



## Luki_SL

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ It replaces the Alaskan Way Viaduct in Seattle (SR-99).


The Alaskan Way Viaduct will be demolished after the tunnel openning ?


----------



## sponge_bob

Luki_SL said:


> The Alaskan Way Viaduct will be demolished after the tunnel openning ?


Yes , if it doesn't collapse first. It is ancient and decrepit as well as very very ugly. Hope that TBM hits nothing unfortunate once they finally get it going again.


----------



## mcarling

siamu maharaj said:


> Only two lanes?


Yes, putting three lanes in each direction into a circular tunnel would require a bore of about 20 meters. The largest TBM ever contracted and designed (and then cancelled) was a 19.25 meter TBM for the Orlovski Tunnel in St Petersburg, Russia.

I'm sure an approximately 20 meter TBM will be boring a 2x3 lane tunnel somewhere in the world before 2025.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's also notable that the single-bore, double-deck tunnel of SR-99 allows trucks. There are not a whole lot of these tunnels, and some of them are so low they only allow passenger cars, for example A86 Duplex in Paris and the under construction Eurasia Tunnel in Istanbul.


----------



## sponge_bob

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's also notable that the single-bore, double-deck tunnel of SR-99 allows trucks. There are not a whole lot of these tunnels, and some of them are so low they only allow passenger cars, for example A86 Duplex in Paris and the under construction Eurasia Tunnel in Istanbul.


An American came up 15 Years ago with that idea of stacking two running tubes vertically like that for a putative tunnel called the Tappan Zee Tunnel in New York. The proposal shown below would have required a 16m ish diameter machine. _It did not exist at the time_, the TBM records were at around 14m diameter then and they had not finished their first tunnels yet. 










http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/16/nyregion/one-man-s-vision-the-tappan-tunnel.html?pagewanted=all

They went with a 2 x 4 Lane bridge in the end. TBMs ain't been built for that size of roadway yet and when they are they will probably be deployed under the Yangtse or Yalu in China first.  

Recent Pic of the new Tappan Zee I87 bridge in New York by the way.


----------



## SounderBruce

Also of note: this month was also the anticipated opening date for the tunnel.

It's a boondoggle and should have been aborted after STP further delayed the opening to 2018 back in May. Tear down the viaduct, deal with the traffic for a few years (and save some lives, potentially) and figure out the solution then.

Here's some pictures I've taken of Bertha over the last year, including on the official WSDOT tour of the project site:

*March 31 - Retrieval/lift*


Bertha from Alaskan & Jackson by SounderBruce, on Flickr

*July 15 - Undergoing repairs*


Bertha TBM retrieval site by SounderBruce, on Flickr

*August 22, 2015 - Last repairs before being lowered*


Bertha under repair by SounderBruce, on Flickr


----------



## Xusein

I liked those pics of Portland in the thread earlier, I was there about two weeks ago. Drivers there are better than in Seattle, they actually drive above the speed limit.

Lots of elevated interchanges since I-5 is parallel to the Willamette River close to downtown. If it's sunny, you can get some impressive views of Mt Hood looking eastward.


----------



## JohnFlint1985

SounderBruce said:


> Also of note: this month was also the anticipated opening date for the tunnel.
> 
> It's a boondoggle and should have been aborted after STP further delayed the opening to 2018 back in May. Tear down the viaduct, deal with the traffic for a few years (and save some lives, potentially) and figure out the solution then.
> 
> Here's some pictures I've taken of Bertha over the last year, including on the official WSDOT tour of the project site:
> 
> *March 31 - Retrieval/lift*
> 
> 
> Bertha from Alaskan & Jackson by SounderBruce, on Flickr
> 
> *July 15 - Undergoing repairs*
> 
> 
> Bertha TBM retrieval site by SounderBruce, on Flickr
> 
> *August 22, 2015 - Last repairs before being lowered*
> 
> 
> Bertha under repair by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I hope this is the last steel pipe on Bartha's way otherwise this tunnel will become a "golden one" :lol:


----------



## SounderBruce

JohnFlint1985 said:


> I hope this is the last steel pipe on Bartha's way otherwise this tunnel will become a "golden one" :lol:


Seeing as that pipe was drilled for this very project and thus there are many like it all along the tunnel's route...plus the possibility of getting stuck under the historic (and protected) Pike Place Market, I won't be holding my breath.

If Bertha does get stuck under Pike Place, there's a chance the project could be abandoned, since it's a huge tourist attraction that can't be compromised in any way.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

geogregor said:


> As we are discussing Portland here are some freeways of Portland:
> Geogregor*, on Flickr


Wow you had pretty good traffic, I always get stuck at the bridge from Washington and in downtown. I always sit in traffic like the pics after the later half of the post.



Xusein said:


> I liked those pics of Portland in the thread earlier, I was there about two weeks ago. Drivers there are better than in Seattle, they actually drive above the speed limit.
> 
> Lots of elevated interchanges since I-5 is parallel to the Willamette River close to downtown. If it's sunny, you can get some impressive views of Mt Hood looking eastward.


We have different experiences of Portland then lol. People drive so slow there, speed limit or below... But you are right people drive slow in Seattle too.



siamu maharaj said:


> Only two lanes?


SR99 is mostly two lanes in each direction anyways. Like most highways in Seattle not enough.



sponge_bob said:


> Yes , if it doesn't collapse first. It is ancient and decrepit as well as very very ugly. Hope that TBM hits nothing unfortunate once they finally get it going again.


Its an ugly deathtrap but I'll miss it because of these views.


----------



## SounderBruce

Two lanes for general purpose traffic is plenty for this tunnel, since it goes absolutely ******* nowhere. The viaduct at least had downtown exits that could be used by commuters and buses especially, as well as freight trucks going from the port to Interbay. The tunnel will only be marginally be useful for West Seattle to SLU commutes at best, so it's a total waste.

And now the new boulevard on Alaskan Way might not have bus lanes, which is a travesty in and of itself.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

SounderBruce said:


> Two lanes for general purpose traffic is plenty for this tunnel, since it goes absolutely ******* nowhere. The viaduct at least had downtown exits that could be used by commuters and buses especially, as well as freight trucks going from the port to Interbay. The tunnel will only be marginally be useful for West Seattle to SLU commutes at best, so it's a total waste.
> 
> And now the new boulevard on Alaskan Way might not have bus lanes, which is a travesty in and of itself.


Well its an alternate route to I-5, I have used it quite a few times honestly to get around downtown traffic. Traffic will be a mess in downtown and on I-5 if and when the new tunnel is opened. The only benefit I see is you'll be able to directly bypass downtown and continue north on 99. Kind of odd that the new boulevard won't have bus lanes since they seem to push them so much here. I'd rather have light rail but thats not happened either right?


----------



## SounderBruce

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Well its an alternate route to I-5, I have used it quite a few times honestly to get around downtown traffic. Traffic will be a mess in downtown and on I-5 if and when the new tunnel is opened. The only benefit I see is you'll be able to directly bypass downtown and continue north on 99. Kind of odd that the new boulevard won't have bus lanes since they seem to push them so much here. I'd rather have light rail but thats not happened either right?


The tunnel will do little to create a bypass, since it dumps you out onto Aurora at the north end or the East Marginal mess in Georgetown.

The bus lanes are being taken away partially because the new boulevard will be too wide (2 bus lanes + 4 GP + 2 ferry turn lanes = car sewer), which upset walking advocates.

Light rail on the waterfront isn't happening anytime soon (maybe this century). A waterfront streetcar (either using heritage vehicles or modern ones) was explored, but is not in the current plans.


----------



## geogregor

Xusein said:


> I liked those pics of Portland in the thread earlier, I was there about two weeks ago. Drivers there are better than in Seattle, they actually drive above the speed limit.
> 
> Lots of elevated interchanges since I-5 is parallel to the Willamette River close to downtown. If it's sunny, you can get some impressive views of Mt Hood looking eastward.


Yes, there are some great views from Portland freeways, including Mt Hood, which you'll see below 



I-275westcoastfl said:


> Wow you had pretty good traffic, I always get stuck at the bridge from Washington and in downtown. I always sit in traffic like the pics after the later half of the post.


Pictures approaching Portland from the north I took in the evening a day before of those where I'm stack in traffic on the interchange with the I-84. That was the following day in the afternoon peak time. Considering time of the day it wasn't too bad. I lost probably 20-30min.



> We have different experiences of Portland then lol. People drive so slow there, speed limit or below... But you are right people drive slow in Seattle too.


To be honest I didn't notice any massive difference in style of driving between Portland and Seattle or Oregon and Washington. 

I-84

DSC01097 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01100 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01101 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01102 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01103 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01104 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01106 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01107 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01108 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

SounderBruce said:


> The tunnel will do little to create a bypass, since it dumps you out onto Aurora at the north end or the East Marginal mess in Georgetown.
> 
> The bus lanes are being taken away partially because the new boulevard will be too wide (2 bus lanes + 4 GP + 2 ferry turn lanes = car sewer), which upset walking advocates.
> 
> Light rail on the waterfront isn't happening anytime soon (maybe this century). A waterfront streetcar (either using heritage vehicles or modern ones) was explored, but is not in the current plans.


You can bypass the I-5 downtown bottleneck, on some days its actually faster to use 99 and get back on I-5 after downtown. The bus lane thing is stupid, in certain areas of Europe they have even wider roads to cross sometimes and there is no issue. People just like to complain it seems. The bus lanes wouldn't have constant traffic like the GP lanes do.


----------



## geogregor

I-5 in Seattle

P9211662 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P9211663 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P9211667 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P9211679 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P9211694 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P9211695 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P9211705 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P9211684 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Yours? From a plane (stupid question, I guess....)


----------



## geogregor

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^Yours? From a plane (stupid question, I guess....)


No, from viewing floor on top of the Columbia Center


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Ah!

Well, they're very nice.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A roadway switch of I-85 in North Carolina (between Lexington and Thomasville). You occasionally see such a layout in case of significant altitude changes, but this area is not as hilly.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-75, Atlanta, GA*

An October 2015 aerial photo, showing the 'Northwest Corridor' toll lanes under construction along I-75 northwest of Atlanta.


----------



## geogregor

Back to I-84 through Columbia River Gorge. Great scenic interstate:

DSC01117 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01119 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01120 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01121 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01122 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01123 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01124 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01128 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-278 Kosciuszko Bridge, New York City*

October 2015 aerial photos of the Kosciuszko Bridge replacement in Brooklyn & Queens.

1. Looking north with a portion of the huge Calvary Cemetery on the left.









2. Approach bridges on the Brooklyn side.









3. A view of the bridge with the skyline in the background.









4. Works within the I-278 / I-495 interchange.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^The old bridge will be demolished after opening the new one ?


----------



## hammersklavier

Luki_SL said:


> ^^The old bridge will be demolished after opening the new one ?


The plan is to demolish and replace (would you believe that the current span dates to _1939_? :uh: )

Here's the rendering I found on Wikipedia:


----------



## geogregor

I-84 through Columbia River Gorge, again 

DSC01129 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01130 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

I like the "barrels" instead of "cones". Look more solid 

DSC01133 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01136 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01141 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01142 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01143 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01144 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## geogregor

DSC01145 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01146 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01150 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01153 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01154 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01155 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01156 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01158 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## geogregor

DSC01161 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01162 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01163 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01164 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01166 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01171 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01172 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01175 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Here, we'll be getting off the I-84:

DSC01177 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## 00Zy99

Trust me, the barrels are just as annoying to run into as the cones. 

Funny thing, though. I recently saw a figure made out of those barrels along the Conn. Turnpike. I think it was near Norwalk. He's on the northbound side (there's a construction bit shortly beyond him). If someone can post pics, it'd be appreciated.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ this guy?


----------



## 00Zy99

I'm not sure. Maybe?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Missouri has a 'Barrel Bob' (not a barrel bomb)


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Missouri has a 'Barrel Bob' (not a barrel bomb)


Yes, now I remember. I saw him couple of years ago somewhere near Springfield.

EDIT:
I even took a photo on the rest area:

DSC07475 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-376 Pittsburgh, PA*

This bridge is finally being demolished. It spans I-376 in Pittsburgh. They built a bridge structure underneath it to protect motorists from falling debris.


----------



## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> This bridge is finally being demolished. ... They built a bridge structure underneath it to protect motorists from falling debris.


Interesting. It seems to me that in most places, such demolition work is done at night with the road below closed. Much less expensive than building a temporary bridge structure underneath. Is this sort of temporary protective structure used elsewhere?

Maybe because of the height of the bridge, the debris would have damaged the road itself? keokiracer answered this question as I was adding it. Thanks keokiracer!


----------



## keokiracer

The temporary bridge wasn't built because of the demolishing of the bridge, it was built because the bridge was literally crumbling onto the road beneath. And instead of demolishing the bridge immediately they built a bridge underneath the bridge to catch falling debris...

Efficiency! hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Indeed. I don't know when the bridge-under-the-bridge was built, but Google Earth shows it in its imagery as far back as 2004!


----------



## geogregor

Are they going to replace it?


----------



## italystf

I recently read a novel about a spy story set in the early Cold War era (1948).
At one point it mentions a police chasing along the Interstate 95 between New York and Washington.
How is this possible? AFAIK the Insterstate system was introduced during Eisenhower presidency, in the late 1950s. Is this a hystorical inaccuracy due to poor research by the writer or that freeway already existed in 1948, maybe not called interstate 95?


----------



## hammersklavier

italystf said:


> I recently read a novel about a spy story set in the early Cold War era (1948).
> At one point it mentions a police chasing along the Interstate 95 between New York and Washington.
> How is this possible? AFAIK the Insterstate system was introduced during Eisenhower presidency, in the late 1950s. Is this a hystorical inaccuracy due to poor research by the writer or that freeway already existed in 1948, maybe not called interstate 95?


It's an inaccuracy. It's an interesting one, though, in that in attempting to fix it you learn a lot about some of the US' oldest highways.

While there was no direct highway between DC and NY immediately after WWII, plans were already afoot for one. In fact, the end-to-end mainlines of the Maryland, Delaware, and New Jersey Turnpike predate the Interstate Highway Act _entirely_ in conception.

The NJ Turnpike's mainline was built 1950-53 and is tied for the oldest part of the highway system (note that it bypasses Philadelphia completely). Its completion was soon followed by that of the Delaware Memorial Bridge's first span; both of these predate Interstate designation.

At the time of the Act, the Delaware Turnpike (from the DE Memorial Br to the MD state line) was being planned; the decision was made to designate it I-95. Note, however, that I-95 deviates from this mainline between Christina and Trenton (it would have been extended along its own alignment up to New York). One suspects that this is due to a fair amount of pressure from Pennsylvania's representatives, to make sure Philly wasn't bypassed completely.

The Baltimore-Washington Parkway (mostly maintained by the NPS), built between 1950 and 1954, ties the NJ Turnpike for the oldest segments opened, although the former was completed first. However, Maryland spent almost all of its allocated money on the Baltimore and Washington beltways, and so had no money to complete its part of the Turnpike system. Like the Delaware Turnpike, it was incorporated into the Interstates, but unlike in Delaware, it was less a matter of convenience and more a matter of the state needing to raise money to built it.

Maryland's part of the NY-DC highway wasn't built until 1962-63, a full decade after the rest of the highway had opened. Delaware's section (other than the Delaware Memorial Bridge approaches) was built at the same, largely because its main purpose was to connect to the MD Turnpike. After Kennedy's 1963 assassination, the Maryland and Delaware turnpikes were renamed the John F. Kennedy Memorial Highway.


----------



## Nexis




----------



## NFZANMNIM

While at Pittsburg, where the hell is "The West" ? Such a british road sign
(Britain's M1's and M6's signs all pointing to "The North" Anywhere between London and Scottland pointing northbound)


----------



## hammersklavier

NFZANMNIM said:


> While at Pittsburg, where the hell is "The West" ? Such a british road sign
> (Britain's M1's and M6's signs all pointing to "The North" Anywhere between London and Scottland pointing northbound)


I kind of have a reason:

I-76 bypasses Youngstown to the south, then heads through Akron, and finally ends at I-71 in the middle of nowhere. Continuing to follow I-71 will indeed lead you to points west. "West" can therefore be read as a directional in lieu of a strong control city; the problem is that the best control city -- Cleveland -- is on I-80, which would probably require three signs on the gantry:

- I-76, Akron and points west
- I-76 to I-80, Cleveland
- I-376, Pittsburgh


----------



## NFZANMNIM

I think by West they mean, beyond Cleaveland, like Toledo, Detroit, or even Chicago


----------



## CNGL

Forget that, the best control city ever is other Desert Cities .


----------



## Penn's Woods

hammersklavier said:


> It's an inaccuracy. It's an interesting one, though, in that in attempting to fix it you learn a lot about some of the US' oldest highways.
> 
> While there was no direct highway between DC and NY immediately after WWII, plans were already afoot for one. In fact, the end-to-end mainlines of the Maryland, Delaware, and New Jersey Turnpike predate the Interstate Highway Act _entirely_ in conception.
> 
> The NJ Turnpike's mainline was built 1950-53 and is tied for the oldest part of the highway system (note that it bypasses Philadelphia completely). Its completion was soon followed by that of the Delaware Memorial Bridge's first span; both of these predate Interstate designation.
> 
> At the time of the Act, the Delaware Turnpike (from the DE Memorial Br to the MD state line) was being planned; the decision was made to designate it I-95. Note, however, that I-95 deviates from this mainline between Christina and Trenton (it would have been extended along its own alignment up to New York). One suspects that this is due to a fair amount of pressure from Pennsylvania's representatives, to make sure Philly wasn't bypassed completely.
> 
> The Baltimore-Washington Parkway (mostly maintained by the NPS), built between 1950 and 1954, ties the NJ Turnpike for the oldest segments opened, although the former was completed first. However, Maryland spent almost all of its allocated money on the Baltimore and Washington beltways, and so had no money to complete its part of the Turnpike system. Like the Delaware Turnpike, it was incorporated into the Interstates, but unlike in Delaware, it was less a matter of convenience and more a matter of the state needing to raise money to built it.
> 
> Maryland's part of the NY-DC highway wasn't built until 1962-63, a full decade after the rest of the highway had opened. Delaware's section (other than the Delaware Memorial Bridge approaches) was built at the same, largely because its main purpose was to connect to the MD Turnpike. After Kennedy's 1963 assassination, the Maryland and Delaware turnpikes were renamed the John F. Kennedy Memorial Highway.


What he said.

Just to add that the reason the John F. Kennedy Memorial Highway got that name is that JFK had cut the ribbon just a week before he was killed.

But yes, there was no such thing as an "Interstate" in 1948 and would not be for nearly a decade. And little if anything in the way of freeway between New York and Washington.


----------



## Penn's Woods

NFZANMNIM said:


> I think by West they mean, beyond Cleaveland, like Toledo, Detroit, or even Chicago


I take it as "Ohio and points [farther] west." It's preferable to the usual Pennsylvania practice, which would be to assume the world ends at Youngstown.

(Which reminds me, when Chrissie Hynde (sp?) of the Pretenders sang "I went back to Ohio and my city was gone," she was talking about Akron.)


----------



## Professor L Gee

ChrisZwolle said:


> A roadway switch of I-85 in North Carolina (between Lexington and Thomasville). You occasionally see such a layout in case of significant altitude changes, but this area is not as hilly.


Between the two roadways are rest areas and the NC Vietnam Veterans' War Memorial. The roadways cross over so that anyone wishing to visit the memorial doesn't have to take a left exit coming or going (onto a freeway which usually sees speeds well over 80 mph).


----------



## NFZANMNIM

CNGL said:


> Forget that, the best control city ever is other Desert Cities .


:lol: too good lol


----------



## Airforceguy

Here are some photos I took earlier this year of highway signs in Metro Atlanta...
Atlanta Freeways by brandon walker, on Flickr

Atlanta Freeways by brandon walker, on Flickr

Atlanta Freeways by brandon walker, on Flickr

Atlanta Freeways by brandon walker, on Flickr

Atlanta Freeways by brandon walker, on Flickr

Atlanta Freeways by brandon walker, on Flickr

Atlanta Freeways by brandon walker, on Flickr

Atlanta Freeways by brandon walker, on Flickr

Atlanta Freeways by brandon walker, on Flickr

Atlanta Freeways by brandon walker, on Flickr


----------



## NFZANMNIM

Airforceguy said:


> Here are some photos I took earlier this year of highway signs in Metro Atlanta...
> 
> 
> Atlanta Freeways by brandon walker, on Flickr
> 
> Atlanta Freeways by brandon walker, on Flickr


They really have it going there with the "EXIT ONLY" thing, eh


----------



## Buffaboy

Airforceguy said:


> Here are some photos I took earlier this year of highway signs in Metro Atlanta...


I'm liking the variable speed limit signs.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

I wish we had highways like Atlanta here in Seattle.. *sigh*


----------



## NFZANMNIM

Does it change based on climate and time? Like 40 mph in a fog, 70 on sunday afternoons?


----------



## Airforceguy

No, the signs change depending on how the traffic is flowing. GDOT is planning to expand the system to I-75 within the next 5 years.


----------



## geogregor

I-82 from Yakima to Ellensburg:

DSC01180 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01181 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01182 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Very scenic interstate:

DSC01183 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01184 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01185 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01187 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01188 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## SounderBruce

I-275westcoastfl said:


> I wish we had highways like Atlanta here in Seattle.. *sigh*


They already took our subway, so we shouldn't import their crappy idea of a transportation network.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Atlanta has a very dysfunctional network of urban arterials. They tried to make it up with very wide freeways, but it also lacks a second beltway. Atlanta's urban arterials are noted as some of the worst planned systems in the country. There are too many governments with conflicting interests.


----------



## geogregor

Continuing I-82

DSC01190 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01191 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Military exit?

DSC01194 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Baby FedEx and dad FedEx :lol:

DSC01195 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01197 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P9242438 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

It must be one of the most scenic rest areas in the interstate system:

P9242433 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P9242436 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Where else you could see two majestic volcanoes from rest area? :nuts:

P9242437 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## geogregor

P9242446 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Long truck:

P9242449 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Lady driver? 

P9242453 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

I have read somewhere that percentage of women driving trucks is much higher in the US than in Europe. Of course they are still small minority but that minority is statistically much larger in America. I wonder why.

Heading down to Ellensburg:

DSC01199 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01201 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01202 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01203 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Joining I-90

DSC01205 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## Suburbanist

There is this overly complex interchange (I-81/CT-2) in East Hattford. Two ( out of 6) routes convergning there are stubs that end on far narrower lanes.

Did they use to have plans to expand more freeways out of there?


----------



## NFZANMNIM

^^ definitely one northbound, I-284


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Well, that's just excessive! Hartford's not actually that big.

I've seen bits of that proposal (284, for example) as dotted lines on old road maps, but some of those...how far did the proposal as a whole ever get beyond pipe dream?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I believe Hartford has the largest core municipality-to-metropolitan area imbalance of all major metropolitan areas in the U.S., the suburbs apparently contain 10 times as many people as the city itself. Though Atlanta is somewhere near that as well.


----------



## Suburbanist

Bay Area is also pretty imbalanced, though it is always complicated to define whether San Jose should be consider the "central city" for being the largest instead of San Francisco.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> I believe Hartford has the largest core municipality-to-metropolitan area imbalance of all major metropolitan areas in the U.S., the suburbs apparently contain 10 times as many people as the city itself. Though Atlanta is somewhere near that as well.


Of course, cities in Connecticut (and western Massachusetts) are so close together that you could get into arguments about where one metropolitan area ends and the next begins. Is Enfield a suburb of Hartford or Springfield, is Cheshire a suburb of Hartford, New Haven or Waterbury...that sort of thing.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Suburbanist said:


> Bay Area is also pretty imbalanced, though it is always complicated to define whether San Jose should be consider the "central city" for being the largest instead of San Francisco.


I wouldn't say that to anyone in San Francisco! 

Nothing to stop a given metropolitan area from having multiple centers, though....

(I don't have time now, but anyone who's so inclined can see how the U.S. Census Bureau defines them. Look at both "Metropolitan Statistical Areas" and Urbanized Areas," and note that multiple "Metropolitan Statistical Areas" can form a single "Consolidated Statistical Area." I may be out of date on my terminology...they keep changing them. And note that for Metropolitan Statistical Areas, outside of New England, they work with entire counties. So San Bernardino County would be entirely "metropolitan" even though it's the size of the Netherlands and mostly desert.)


----------



## Suburbanist

I-70 Utah - San Rafael Swell










Source


----------



## Nexis

*Scudder Falls Bridge Replacement Project - Public Outreach Video*


----------



## Xusein

Suburbanist said:


> There is this overly complex interchange (I-81/CT-2) in East Hattford. Two ( out of 6) routes convergning there are stubs that end on far narrower lanes.
> 
> Did they use to have plans to expand more freeways out of there?


Other than the still-proposed rebuilding of the I-84 viaduct in Downtown Hartford, no.

Greater Hartford doesn't really have a need for new highways, the current setup is adequate. It would have been nice if the I-291 beltway was completed to create a complete bypass of the city but compared to several other cities in the country, getting around there is a piece of cake. 



Penn's Woods said:


> ^^Well, that's just excessive! Hartford's not actually that big.
> 
> I've seen bits of that proposal (284, for example) as dotted lines on old road maps, but some of those...how far did the proposal as a whole ever get beyond pipe dream?


Even though the proposed highways were not done, you can see the vestiges of many of them today. I-84 west of Hartford has a lot of overdone interchanges that were supposed to be used for bigger things that never panned out. An example of this is the stack interchange with CT Route 9, which is only half used as a trumpet interchange because the northern end was cancelled, this was supposed be the I-291/I-84 interchange.









http://www.kurumi.com/roads/ct/pics/ph-i84wb-stack.jpg

I believe this is the only stack interchange in New England.

A lot of the proposed highways didn't make much sense anyway. I-291's western section was proposed to go near several reservoirs and would have been also close to some of the region's most valuable real estate. 



ChrisZwolle said:


> I believe Hartford has the largest core municipality-to-metropolitan area imbalance of all major metropolitan areas in the U.S., the suburbs apparently contain 10 times as many people as the city itself. Though Atlanta is somewhere near that as well.


Hartford proper's land area is tiny, only 45 sq km. It's basically the downtown and inner neighborhoods. Northeastern cities generally don't have the ability to annex their suburbs like further south and west.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-35E / US 67, Dallas, TX*

A project that has been planned for some time is the 'Southern Gateway' in Dallas, which involves adding reversible lanes along I-35E and US 67 in southern Dallas. It was originally proposed as tolled managed lanes, but the recent passing of two propositions which increases highway funding makes it feasible to de-toll this project.










TxDOT has planned open houses in the area:

Since the last series of public meetings held in Summer 2015, there have been substantial changes to the project based on stakeholder and public input. The most notable change to the project is that the managed lane will not be proposed as a toll facility. Instead, a non-tolled express/managed lane facility open to all users will be implemented. Other changes consist of relocating the managed lane access points, providing wider cross-street accommodations for pedestrian and bicycle accessibility, updates to ramping configuration at I-35E and Beckley Avenue, adding general purpose lanes, realignment of the mainlane geometry to reduce right-of-way impacts and providing accommodations for a future deck park.​


----------



## NFZANMNIM

Can this be the one? Can I-790 be the stupidest Interstate designation in the US?










Although there is an eventual plan of redesignating Utica-Rome as I-790


----------



## Joshua Dodd

Dallas Horseshoe Project update:


























































This image gives a good idea for the future freeway projects in the plans for the DFW Metroplex:


----------



## Joshua Dodd

Let's not forget about the 35W corridor reconstruction in Fort Worth:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-376 Pittsburgh, PA*



ChrisZwolle said:


> This bridge is finally being demolished. It spans I-376 in Pittsburgh. They built a bridge structure underneath it to protect motorists from falling debris.


And BOOM! it's gone.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> Tallahassee is the Florida state capital  Jacksonville is the largest city proper.


Is that still true? To what extent are Miami and Dade County merged now? (Yes, I could look it up.... self-:bash


----------



## Penn's Woods

Okay, here's a sort-of-highway issue:

Weather Channel's reporting this morning on the aftermath of tornadoes that passed through suburban Dallas Saturday night. They had a reporter in an apartment complex in Garland, near I-30, that was pretty much flattened, but where everyone survived (albeit with some injuries) because there was ample warning to the public. He noted that most of the deaths in the area (at one point they were reporting 11 of them) occurred on the Interstate, among people who had no idea they were driving into a tornado.

I said to myself, how about putting specific weather warnings on VMSes? There are enough of them these days, at least in the Northeast. (More specific than just "tornado warning for Dallas County"...enough to convey a "if you're seeing this sign, you need to get off the road NOW." Although I suppose the next issue for the driver seeing such a warning is, so what do I do? Pull onto the shoulder, and get out of the car and into a ditch?)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The problem is that traffic tends to come to a standstill in such weather, especially in a large urban area. Motorists become a sitting duck. Going in a ditch is safer than taking shelter under an overpass, which is generally considered the most dangerous. Another problem in urban areas with tornadoes is that a lot of debris become airborne as missiles, which can easily penetrate cars.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^I heard a report about "cars being thrown around." It wasn't the same report that mentioned the deaths on the highway, so I can't say that's what caused the deaths, but I'd guess that's the case.

Also, I happened to have the Weather Channel on on Saturday evening (because I was at my mother's and wondering how a big storm coming this way was going to affect my drive back on Monday), right as the tornado was happening. They had footage from some local TV station's storm chaser car that was on an Interstate (they didn't say which)...traffic was actually quite light. Which makes sense at 8 p.m. on Saturday, December 26th.


----------



## Penn's Woods

I was once passing through a town in Maryland when I heard the civil-defense sirens going off...radio mentioned a tornado warning for the area I was in. And I realized that - coming from a part of the country where tornadoes are rare - I didn't actually know what to do.


----------



## ukraroad

Penn's Woods said:


> Is that still true? To what extent are Miami and Dade County merged now? (Yes, I could look it up.... self-:bash


I don't understand NY in this aspect cause Albany is significantly smaller than New York. :bash: And still it is the capital. I guess it must be a bit changed because it looks a bit like the mess in the Nigeria, pardon my French. Like the capital of a region is a 1000 lesser village than the biggest city in the area.


----------



## [atomic]

^^ usually this is done to not have everything in 1 city or to develop some inland area (Brasil, Pakistan, Nigeria). Sometimes also because the main City is not supposed to be the capital for political reasons (Australia,Turkey).


----------



## geogregor

ukraroad said:


> I don't understand NY in this aspect cause Albany is significantly smaller than New York. :bash: And still it is the capital. I guess it must be a bit changed because it looks a bit like the mess in the Nigeria, pardon my French. Like the capital of a region is a 1000 lesser village than the biggest city in the area.


Do you ask strange questions, not really related to the topic, in any thread? 
You do it quite often in Polish threads, often asking something basic without minimum knowledge of the background or simply ranting and using hammers complaining about something irrelevant.hno:

Anyway.
In most of the states in the US capitals are rather small towns. Locating them in such places was often done to separate politicians from the business community so there would be less temptation of interference. 
Of course in times without good communication and without thousands of lobbyists it was easier and made more sense than nowadays.

Oh, and Albany is one of the oldest European settlements in this part of America, established by the Dutch. Situation here has nothing in common with purpose built capitals like in Nigeria or Brasil. 

Besides who said that capital must be in the biggest city? It all depends what functions do you want for that city. US capitals are usually just simply about state politics and not about culture or business. 

I don't see problem with that.

European style centralisation is not the only model.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ukraroad said:


> I don't understand NY in this aspect cause Albany is significantly smaller than New York. :bash: And still it is the capital. I guess it must be a bit changed because it looks a bit like the mess in the Nigeria, pardon my French. Like the capital of a region is a 1000 lesser village than the biggest city in the area.


Quite a few of the former British colonies moved their capitals inland in the decades after the Revolution. In part, this was in anticipation that inland areas would grow so inland capitals would be more centrally located. And there was a bit of a cultural suspicion of big cities (Jefferson talks about rural life as more virtuous...), not that any American city was all that big by modern standards.

And not just the ex-British colonies, but newer, 19th-century states often chose central locations rather than population centers...and the population was in such flux that people didn't know where the population centers would be. Chicago barely existed, if it existed at all, when Illinois became a state; that's just one example.


----------



## 00Zy99

Penn's Woods said:


> And not just the ex-British colonies, but newer, 19th-century states often chose central locations rather than population centers...and the population was in such flux that people didn't know where the population centers would be. Chicago barely existed, if it existed at all, when Illinois became a state; that's just one example.


This, basically. Springfield was one of the "larger" settlements in Illinois when it was chosen as capitol.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yep, even odd Juneau was actually bigger than Anchorage in the early 20th century.


----------



## sotonsi

Albany is also geographically central (ish) - the main north-south and east-west corridors meet there. Often state capitals are chosen for centrality: the need for people to get there to petition the Government, etc.


----------



## Nexis

Interstate 76 aka the Schuylkill Expressway 


DSC_0011 by Montgomery County Planning Commission, on Flickr


----------



## Buffaboy

^^ I hear the nickname is also the "Surekill Expressway" as well. Are any improvements planned?


----------



## hammersklavier

Buffaboy said:


> ^^ I hear the nickname is also the "Surekill Expressway" as well. Are any improvements planned?


Nope.

While the whole road is a shítshow, the section in Philadelphia is practically impossible to improve without _significant_ expense. We're talking about Big Dig or Big Bertha expensive, here. This is because the alignment heads through Fairmount Park -- which makes, say, widening or second-decking the thing a political non-starter -- and then has serious geometric deficiency that can only be solved with a _de novo_ alignment in South Philadelphia.

That said, the section in that part of Lower Merion ought to be widened without too much difficulty: it's jammed between two cemeteries and the river. But even if it were six lanes, it wouldn't be able to handle the traffic demand.

Philadelphia's expressway network may be unfixable today due to roads that did -- or did not -- get built back in the '50s or '60s. For example: _why is City Line Avenue not a fücking highway?_


ukraroad said:


> I don't understand NY in this aspect cause Albany is significantly smaller than New York. :bash: And still it is the capital. I guess it must be a bit changed because it looks a bit like the mess in the Nigeria, pardon my French. Like the capital of a region is a 1000 lesser village than the biggest city in the area.


Philadelphia was the capital of Pennsylvania in 1776.

That dubious honor belongs to Harrisburg today.

Few of the Northeastern states have their state capitals and largest cities in the same place. Massachusetts and Rhode Island, _maybe_ New Hampshire and Connecticut. But for the rest of them it looks like this:
State - _Capital_ - *Largest City*​Maine - _Augusta_ - *Portland*​Vermont - _Montpelier_ - *Burlington*​New York - _Albany_ - *New York*​New Jersey - _Trenton_ - *Newark*​Pennsylvania - _Harrisburg_ - *Philadelphia*​Delaware - _Dover_ - *Wilmington*​Maryland - _Annapolis_ - *Baltimore*​If you check the rest of the states, there's a completely random distribution whether or not the state capital is the largest city. For some
Georgia - *Atlanta*​Wyoming - *Cheyenne*​Colorado - *Denver*​it holds true, but for others
Illinois - _Springfield_ - *Chicago*​Montana - _Helena_ - *Billings*​Alaska - _Juneau_ - *Anchorage*​it does not.

One can argue that generally, throughout the Northeast, the state capitals were moved to a more central location. Harrisburg, Albany, Montpelier, and Augusta are all in the middle of their states. 

So is Delaware, but this is a false flag: Dover was named by William Penn himself, and at the time it was established as the state capital, Wilmington hadn't developed into an important city.

Like Delaware, Maryland preserves an older economic center as its state capital. In the Tidewater era, when nearly all shipping was carried out by, well, ships, Annapolis was _the_ major port-of-call. Baltimore had begun to grow by the Revolution, but was still relatively small; by the 1820s-ish, the two cities were on relatively even footing; what caused Baltimore's explosive growth was the rise of the railroads and the twin facts that (a) Baltimore was culturally more oriented towards the industrializing north, and (b) Baltimore's city site was just plain better for ship-to-rail transshipment; a north-south mainline would have to take a significant detour across the wide Patapsco and Severn estuaries to reach Annapolis.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Heck, look how long it took for the Vine and the Blue Route to be built.

I didn't know City Line was ever supposed to be a freeway.

But I'm glad (living near Fitler Square...) that the unnecessary South Street freeway was never built.

(And Manchester, N.H., is about three times the size of Concord. :cheers


----------



## LtBk

I wonder if they could have built I-76 differently.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

I'm not saying that the widening projects are neccarrily useless, just that it's bad network design to have so many key freeways meeting right beside downtown. Downtowns are supposed to be places where cars aren't quite as important, and sticking the largest interchange in the city right next door tends not to help.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Many people in southern Dallas commute to jobs in north Dallas or the suburbs, many of those commutes pass by downtown. As downtown is usually at the center of the city, a lot of traffic from one side of the city to the other passes by it. 

Most European cities didn't have much employment in city centers in the 1960s apart from retail. There was never a need to construct extensive downtown freeways. In addition, most European freeways were built as intercity routes, especially the earlier ones, whereas in Texas the freeway system started as a collection of urban routes which evolved into long-distance routes when the Interstate Highway system was created.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Fort Worth*

The northern I-35W / I-820 interchange in Fort Worth, Texas. Another big stack interchange for Texas.


----------



## sonysnob

Shameless self promotion, but I went to Texas back in November, and while there, one of the roads that I photographed was I-820:



















http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/TX/I/820/index.html


----------



## Joshua Dodd

Fort Worth's current population stands around 800,000. Projected population for 2025 is 1.3 million people. They are smart to prepare their infrastructure for the coming population boom--well, technically the boom is already here--unlike Austin, whose infrastructure is ill prepared for that city's extensive boom.


----------



## Nexis

New Tappan Zee Bridge 

Taken Yesterday 1.13.16


Tappan Zee Construction in Mid January 2016 by Corey Best, on Flickr


Tappan Zee Construction in Mid January 2016 by Corey Best, on Flickr


Tappan Zee Construction in Mid January 2016 by Corey Best, on Flickr


Tappan Zee Construction in Mid January 2016 by Corey Best, on Flickr


Tappan Zee Construction in Mid January 2016 by Corey Best, on Flickr


Tappan Zee Construction in Mid January 2016 by Corey Best, on Flickr


Tappan Zee Construction in Mid January 2016 by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

Taken Yesterday 1.13.16


George Washington Bridge viewed from Upper Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## hacci

DFW is ridiculously huge. I spent a month there and all distances are way too long haha but what I see is that in every single freeway there's works going on right now, the whole infrastructure is being changed. I took some pics of the I-635 by the way, I'll get them here soon.


----------



## geogregor

One more video from I-84


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## Suburbanist

Does anybody know the story behind these short-spaced I-10 exist east of New Orleans?










In east direction, the first is active, the second has been eaten away by vegetation and the third one is blocked in 2013 imagery (link with highway demolished but partially opened in 2011... :dunno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Perhaps they've been built to serve planned developments that never materialized. The middle interchange was already overgrown by vegetation 20 years ago.


----------



## Suburbanist

Something that puzzles me is how Lousiana Interstate bridges over swamps or the causeway over Lake Ponchartrain have very low railings or concrete barriers. I've also never seen any noise mitigation barrier in or around New Orleans on my "investigations" on Google Street View.


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> Perhaps they've been built to serve planned developments that never materialized. The middle interchange was already overgrown by vegetation 20 years ago.


Maybe... And after Katrina, I think that area will not see any new development, the Corp of Engineers don't want to increase the perimeter of "hard to protect" areas


----------



## hacci

Suburbanist said:


> Something that puzzles me is how Lousiana Interstate bridges over swamps or the causeway over Lake Ponchartrain have very low railings or concrete barriers. I've also never seen any noise mitigation barrier in or around New Orleans on my "investigations" on Google Street View.


When I went to New Orleans I did saw some noise mitigation barriers but not too many and only in a specific freeway that I can´t remember.

*In other stuff, here are my pics of the I-635 while crossing Dallas:*


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## hacci

P1040199 by Em Mz, on Flickr

*I like how it looks. It has a simple but nice design, and the fact that the Texpress toll lanes go underneath the freeway is something I celebrate of it.
By the way, I always wondered why are those things hanging from the signs that are usually placed in toll roads if it´s a free one?*


----------



## General Maximus

I've snapshot this a while back. Is this a regular occurrence?


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## ukraroad

^^ What exactly? Red is OK as there are a lot of accidents. Maybe some bad weather or too many hardcore drivers


----------



## Penn's Woods

General Maximus said:


> I've snapshot this a while back. Is this a regular occurrence?


Ice overnight....

(Fire Island's off the map, by the way....)

EDIT: Case in point - http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...eup-Bronx-River-Parkway-Closed-365616831.html


----------



## geogregor

I-90 east of Spokane

DSC01319 by Geogregor*, on Flickr
Rest are

DSC01320 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01321 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P9252846 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

:nuts:

P9252847 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01325 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01326 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01328 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## geogregor

DSC01329 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01330 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01331 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01332 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01333 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01335 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01336 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01342 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## Xpressway

ChrisZwolle said:


> A new DDI in Marion, Illinois.


Very nice DDI, hopefully I can drive through one of these soon.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Montgomery Outer Loop*

The first segment of the Montgomery Outer Loop (MOL) in Alabama will open to traffic tomorrow. It's a 2 mile segment between I-85 and Route 110 (Vaughn Road).

It will be numbered as I-85 when the outer loop is completed, and then the existing I-85 through Montgomery will be renumbered to I-685. However, when the outer loop is completed to I-65 remains to be seen, they don't have any funding plan.

As is evidenced on the Wikipedia page :lol:








https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_685


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## ukraroad

:wtf:????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!! Strangely they haven't published the plans to build a motorway on Mars:lol:


----------



## ukraroad

I removed that sh** out of that article^^. Now says the first section expected to open will be finished in Feb 2016.(not btw 2016-2200:nuts


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Clearview*

The use of Clearview on highway signage will be discontinued:

This notice terminates the Interim Approval for Use of Clearview Font for Positive Contrast Legends on Guide Signs (IA-5), issued September 2, 2004, as authorized by Section 1A.10 of the MUTCD, and discontinues the provisional use of an alternative lettering style in traffic control device applications. The result of this termination rescinds the use of letter styles other than the FHWA Standard Alphabets on traffic control devices, except as provided otherwise in the MUTCD. Existing signs that use the provisional letter style and comply with the Interim Approval are unaffected by this action and may remain as long as they are in serviceable condition. This action does not create a mandate for the removal or installation of any sign.​
https://www.federalregister.gov/art...manual-on-uniform-traffic-control-devices-for


----------



## SutroTower

*US 412 Tulsa,OK*


----------



## Kanadzie

ChrisZwolle said:


> The use of Clearview on highway signage will be discontinued:
> This notice terminates the Interim Approval for Use of Clearview Font for Positive Contrast Legends on Guide Signs (IA-5), issued September 2, 2004, as authorized by Section 1A.10 of the MUTCD, and discontinues the provisional use of an alternative lettering style in traffic control device applications. The result of this termination rescinds the use of letter styles other than the FHWA Standard Alphabets on traffic control devices, except as provided otherwise in the MUTCD. Existing signs that use the provisional letter style and comply with the Interim Approval are unaffected by this action and may remain as long as they are in serviceable condition. This action does not create a mandate for the removal or installation of any sign.​https://www.federalregister.gov/art...manual-on-uniform-traffic-control-devices-for


I'm curious how this will affect other areas that have been into Clearview.

In Quebec, Canada for example they made Clearview official and _required_ for sign wording (the numerals on highway shields and exit gores remains FHWA, thank God) and are currently going through a long-term plan to change all signs.

Meanwhile neighboring Ontario put up a couple of signs with them (notably on the Toronto-bound QEW approaching the Burlington Skyway) but gave up immediately after... though Toronto seems to have gone to it exclusively on the Gardiner...


----------



## FM 2258

ChrisZwolle said:


> The use of Clearview on highway signage will be discontinued:
> 
> This notice terminates the Interim Approval for Use of Clearview Font for Positive Contrast Legends on Guide Signs (IA-5), issued September 2, 2004, as authorized by Section 1A.10 of the MUTCD, and discontinues the provisional use of an alternative lettering style in traffic control device applications. The result of this termination rescinds the use of letter styles other than the FHWA Standard Alphabets on traffic control devices, except as provided otherwise in the MUTCD. Existing signs that use the provisional letter style and comply with the Interim Approval are unaffected by this action and may remain as long as they are in serviceable condition. This action does not create a mandate for the removal or installation of any sign.​
> https://www.federalregister.gov/art...manual-on-uniform-traffic-control-devices-for


Thank God! I really hate clearview....could never get used to it. Bring back the old green and button copy!


----------



## rantanamo

keokiracer said:


> Ask Atlanta how not building highways is preventing it from sprawling out.


If this sprawl if from subdivisions, the developers know exactly where and have influence over what highways are built. They aren't just going to build without this type of planning and knowledge.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Texas*

*TxDOT Unveils Initial $1.3 Billion to Address Congestion *

Full press release: http://txdot.gov/inside-txdot/media-center/statewide-news/03-2016.html

Project list:










The funding is meant for shovel-ready projects, so most will start soon. Some projects are condensed into one phase instead of multiple phases, while other planned projects will be expedited. It also includes funding for projects that were originally planned as a toll facility (US 281, I-35E/US 67).

It includes $ 100 million for collector lanes along I-35E at downtown Dallas, $ 264 million for the Dallas Gateway project, $ 61 million for collector lanes along SH 121 that fell out of the original DFW Connector project, $ 132 million to reconstruct the I-69/610 stack interchange in southwest Houston and $ 209 million to widen I-10 west of Houston.


----------



## ADCS

ChrisZwolle said:


> The use of Clearview on highway signage will be discontinued:
> 
> This notice terminates the Interim Approval for Use of Clearview Font for Positive Contrast Legends on Guide Signs (IA-5), issued September 2, 2004, as authorized by Section 1A.10 of the MUTCD, and discontinues the provisional use of an alternative lettering style in traffic control device applications. The result of this termination rescinds the use of letter styles other than the FHWA Standard Alphabets on traffic control devices, except as provided otherwise in the MUTCD. Existing signs that use the provisional letter style and comply with the Interim Approval are unaffected by this action and may remain as long as they are in serviceable condition. This action does not create a mandate for the removal or installation of any sign.​
> https://www.federalregister.gov/art...manual-on-uniform-traffic-control-devices-for


I personally think this is a mistake, and more indicative of general engineering resistance to change rather than any performance-based reason.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-265 Louisville, KY*

Some aerial photos of the East End Crossing project, that will complete the eastern beltway of Louisville.


----------



## IanCleverly

Truck drivers 'dashcam' on Interstate 17 in the state of Arizona


----------



## General Maximus

^^ You make them yourself?


----------



## IanCleverly

General Maximus said:


> ^^ You make them yourself?


No, I live in the UK. I was just searching for scenic-driving videos on youtube/vimeo, and came across that one.


----------



## zaphod

So in addition to a cable stayed bridge, they are boring a tunnel in suburban Louisville? Interesting, wasn't aware of that. Cool project.


----------



## browntown

zaphod said:


> So in addition to a cable stayed bridge, they are boring a tunnel in suburban Louisville? Interesting, wasn't aware of that. Cool project.


There was some sort of absurd lawsuit that stopped them from just going over that hill so they decided it was easier to spend $100 million extra on a tunnel than to try and fight the NIMBYs in court over knocking some old house down for years. Absurd US legal system at it's best. :bash:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Houston*

The I-69 / I-610 interchange in Uptown Houston. As stated before, this interchange will be reconstructed in the coming years. It is the oldest four-level stack interchange in Texas, and opened to traffic in 1962.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ It's impressive that it was built in 1962 but has a modern right-exit setup instead of the directional design that seemed common at the time (e.g. that one in Detroit, or quasi-directional like the Turcot Interchange in Montreal (1967))


----------



## gregduh

Texas certainly was never afraid to pay for anything but the best freeway technology. That new setup on the 635 in Dallas is pretty wild as well.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They wanted a signature bridge like the Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge. Which is understandable, as the region has a lot of boring beam bridges. The interchanges are more impressive than the regular bridges. 

Some would argue it's an unecessary waste of money, but it is built to last a century, so its visual impact will be felt over decades, while the expenditure is just once. It will be a part of the Dallas skyline.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> They wanted a signature bridge like the Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge. Which is understandable, as the region has a lot of boring beam bridges. The interchanges are more impressive than the regular bridges.
> 
> Some would argue it's an unecessary waste of money, but it is built to last a century, so its visual impact will be felt over decades, while the expenditure is just once. It will be a part of the Dallas skyline.


Given the state of Texas's, and the Tea Party's, ideological opposition to spending money on basic things people actually need, I'd argue it's pure hypocrisy.

Sorry to get political, but really.


----------



## rantanamo

Penn's Woods said:


> Given the state of Texas's, and the Tea Party's, ideological opposition to spending money on basic things people actually need, I'd argue it's pure hypocrisy.
> 
> Sorry to get political, but really.


Dallas proper(as well as the other big cities in Texas) are blue while most of the suburbs and rural areas red. The fed/state only gave money for basic pier and beam bridges. The signature portions were funded by private donations(hence the names) and specialized local funding.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Fair enough, I guess....

:cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Texas has a history of 'donations' to highway projects. In the 1950s and 1960s there were landowners in the Houston area who donated the right-of-way for the construction of freeways. They found it benificial, the value of their land exploded after the freeway was built. A prominent example was Sharpstown


----------



## smokiboy

Joshua Dodd said:


> Horseshoe Project January update
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holy Smokes! Thats a lota lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This was the schematic I found, 5 eastbound and 6 westbound lanes, plus two-lane frontage roads on either side.

But it feels wider, like 18 lanes could fit there.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-405 Seattle suburbs*

*I-405 tolls rake in more than 3 times expected income*

Toll payers spent $3.7 million between the Sept. 27 grand opening and the end of the year, compared with a $1 million forecast, in the corridor between Lynnwood and Bellevue.

Traffic volumes reached levels not expected until after two years. “Drivers quickly perceived the value of express toll lanes, and they jumped in earlier than forecast,” Rubstello said.​
Full report: http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ls-rake-in-more-than-3-times-expected-income/

Tolled lanes are not always as unpopular or 'lexus lanes' as they are sometimes said to be. They clearly offer an advantage people are willing to pay the price for. The article goes on to state that the tolls spike at $ 9-10 at times. 

In some cases you can't build your way of out congestion, but you can manage it, and tolled express lanes offer a good advantage. Though I think they're most attractive if they have at least two lanes in each direction (or are reversible with at least two lanes). The I-405 express lanes have partially two lanes and partially one lane in each direction.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

Penn's Woods said:


> Given the state of Texas's, and the Tea Party's, ideological opposition to spending money on basic things people actually need, I'd argue it's pure hypocrisy.
> 
> Sorry to get political, but really.


The signature bridges were financed mainly by private donors. Politics aside, this is about the growth of a massive metropolis. Dallas Fort Worth is no longer an irrelevant city. We are now the official logistics capitol of the entire Western Hemisphere. This is so huge that we are exploding in population, which is why the freeways are going through a massive overhaul. 
There is a bigger picture to the bridges than most people know about. In fact, the picture is so massive that it has been in the plannings since the 1920s. 
The Trinity River bottom is going to be transformed into a massive park that will rival Central Park and parks around the world. Where the signature bridges seem to span a measly creek, this area will be transformed into recreational lakes. 
Here is the grand scheme of the ultimate plan:


----------



## StoJa9

"Rival" Central Park, how? Size? Because, ya know, everything's bigger in Texas? :blahblah:

One is arguably the most iconic urban park in the world..and the other has a dozen freeway bridges running through it or over it.


----------



## Kanadzie

maybe they can make some highways on either side of the river so it can be _Marginal _Trinity


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

ChrisZwolle said:


> *I-405 tolls rake in more than 3 times expected income*
> 
> Toll payers spent $3.7 million between the Sept. 27 grand opening and the end of the year, compared with a $1 million forecast, in the corridor between Lynnwood and Bellevue.
> 
> Traffic volumes reached levels not expected until after two years. “Drivers quickly perceived the value of express toll lanes, and they jumped in earlier than forecast,” Rubstello said.​
> Full report: http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ls-rake-in-more-than-3-times-expected-income/
> 
> Tolled lanes are not always as unpopular or 'lexus lanes' as they are sometimes said to be. They clearly offer an advantage people are willing to pay the price for. The article goes on to state that the tolls spike at $ 9-10 at times.
> 
> In some cases you can't build your way of out congestion, but you can manage it, and tolled express lanes offer a good advantage. Though I think they're most attractive if they have at least two lanes in each direction (or are reversible with at least two lanes). The I-405 express lanes have partially two lanes and partially one lane in each direction.


The I-405 express lanes are the worst example of tolled express lanes I've experienced. They haven't managed congestion at all since traffic has gotten worse since its been built. The traffic has spilled out onto other roads and highways. My commute on I-5 has increased 10-15 minutes one way on average since they've opened the HOT lanes. They are a perfect example of Lexus lanes since I-405 runs along some of the most wealthy areas of the Seattle metro area. However working class commuters from the area towards the end of the 405 and north of it are punished by sitting in worse than before traffic. 

Texas highways are a good example of HOT lanes since they offer good capacity on general purpose lanes with the option of toll lanes. Here they haven't increased capacity at all, just charged for existing capacity.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

StoJa9 said:


> "Rival" Central Park, how? Size? Because, ya know, everything's bigger in Texas? :blahblah:
> 
> One is arguably the most iconic urban park in the world..and the other has a dozen freeway bridges running through it or over it.


The Park will span the entire Trinity bottom from Dallas to Fort Worth. That is massive.


----------



## jchernin

^ Quantity isn't the issue, it's _Quality_


----------



## rantanamo

jchernin said:


> ^ Quantity isn't the issue, it's _Quality_


The claim is about size. It would be a totally different place than Central Park. No need for snark and condescension.


----------



## rantanamo

ChrisZwolle said:


> This was the schematic I found, 5 eastbound and 6 westbound lanes, plus two-lane frontage roads on either side.
> 
> But it feels wider, like 18 lanes could fit there.


The project is officially 10 main lanes + 8 frontage


----------



## SounderBruce

I-275westcoastfl said:


> The I-405 express lanes are the worst example of tolled express lanes I've experienced. They haven't managed congestion at all since traffic has gotten worse since its been built. The traffic has spilled out onto other roads and highways. My commute on I-5 has increased 10-15 minutes one way on average since they've opened the HOT lanes. They are a perfect example of Lexus lanes since I-405 runs along some of the most wealthy areas of the Seattle metro area. However working class commuters from the area towards the end of the 405 and north of it are punished by sitting in worse than before traffic.
> 
> Texas highways are a good example of HOT lanes since they offer good capacity on general purpose lanes with the option of toll lanes. Here they haven't increased capacity at all, just charged for existing capacity.


The express toll lanes (do note the difference; "express lanes" refer to the I-5 and I-90 systems, which are completely different) are a definite disaster and cost the state DOT their administrator.

The only good thing about them is the speediness of buses in the lanes...which then get stuck trying to weave out of the lanes to exit and serve stops on offramps because WSDOT forgot to include median stations and direct access ramps like those found on SR 520.

Also, Lynnwood and the northern suburbs along I-405 are far from working class...they're a tier below Bellevue/Kirkland on the wealth bracket, but well above places like Everett and Marysville.

Increasing capacity, as said time and time again, is not the right way and would not fly in Seattle--and especially on the Eastside.

And at least the money might go towards I-405 corridor improvements--if there's any left over after the operators take a cut.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The 'Grand Parkway' in Houston (SH 99) was originally envisioned as a chain of parks that would form a loop around Houston. The idea wasn't too popular with landowners in the 1970s and the project was ultimately reduced to just the toll road, stripped of the park-like characteristics and even some decent landscaping. But it retained the name of 'Grand Parkway'.


----------



## hammersklavier

StoJa9 said:


> "Rival" Central Park, how? Size? Because, ya know, everything's bigger in Texas? :blahblah:
> 
> One is arguably the most iconic urban park in the world..and the other has a dozen freeway bridges running through it or over it.


Eh, good landscape design + good starting conditions can forgive quite a lot.

Have you ever seen Fairmount Park in Philadelphia? A railroad mainline and an Interstate, as well as two park drives that have been converted into overflow lanes for the Interstate, run through it. Several road and rail bridges span the Schuylkill River. But at the same time, go around a bend and you can forget all of that. You can feel like you're on a mountain river miles outside the city.

I think Dallas aiming for Central Park is a tad, er, optimistic. But it might be able to hit something like Millennium Park or Fairmount Park if it's done well.


----------



## jchernin

rantanamo said:


> The claim is about size. It would be a totally different place than Central Park. No need for snark and condescension.


You're right, _Joshua's_ claim is about size. StoJa9's however is about quality. An urban park with many major road bridges running through it has literally major obstacles to overcome if it's going to be a successful gathering place. People tend to not like to hang out next to towering viaducts with a lot of freeway noise (except for homeless maybe?). No need to be sensitive, I'm being wary of the park plan, nothing against you personally. It's just my opinion man, which is what this forum is for. You certainly have a right to disagree.


----------



## Buffaboy

rakcancer said:


> Progress on Tappan Zee bridge construction, upstate NY:


People upstate consider this to be downstate.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Where would you put the divide between Downstate and Upstate New York? Somewhere near Poughkeepsie? I-84? An imagerinary line that extends the northern border of Pennsylvania to the northern border of Connecticut?


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ Honestly I would put it right there at the Tappan Zee and 287...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-90/94 Chicago, IL*

A northbound view over I-90/94 near downtown Chicago. You can see the I-290 interchange under reconstruction and the high exit density towards the Chicago Loop. The exit numbering goes up to 52H.


----------



## Nexis

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ Where would you put the divide between Downstate and Upstate New York? Somewhere near Poughkeepsie? I-84? An imagerinary line that extends the northern border of Pennsylvania to the northern border of Connecticut?


Anything North of the Lower Hudson Valley is considered Upstate New York. So Orange , Putnam , Westchester , Dutchess , Rockland , Sullivan & Ulster counties are considered downstate along with being part of the NYC metro...


----------



## rakcancer

For New Yorkers living in New York City pretty everything above north border of Bronx is upstate. Only Long Island is real downstate.


----------



## Buffaboy

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ Where would you put the divide between Downstate and Upstate New York? Somewhere near Poughkeepsie? I-84? An imagerinary line that extends the northern border of Pennsylvania to the northern border of Connecticut?


Having lived upstate all my life I'd put it at around Newburgh or Poughkeepsie, yes. It could also be where MTA's influence ends, which is Poughkeepsie. Some others put it at I-84, and others in areas like Utica and points north consider the Adirondacks "Upstate," but in a political sense, "downstate" is what I mentioned earlier.


----------



## Buffaboy

ChrisZwolle said:


> A northbound view over I-90/94 near downtown Chicago. You can see the I-290 interchange under reconstruction and the high exit density towards the Chicago Loop. The exit numbering goes up to 52H.


That's one crazy interchange. I remember being in a tour bus a couple years ago going through it. I thought _that_ was called the Chicago Loop.


----------



## jchernin

I-5 in Mission Viejo, CA









http://www.octa.net/Projects-and-Pr...y-(I-5)/I-5-(SR-73-to-El-Toro-Road)/?frm=7128

A freeway widening project for this section is currently undergoing environmental review. It will: 
1) Add one general purpose lane in both directions (between Avery Parkway and Alicia Parkway)
2) Extend the second carpool lane in each direction (between Alicia Parkway and El Toro Road)
3) Reconstruct some interchanges
4) Construct new or reestablish auxiliary lanes
5) Convert buffer separated carpool lanes to continuous access


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That stretch has unbelievable traffic counts, especially for a freeway so far on the edge of a metropolitan area, it's over 40 miles to downtown Los Angeles. If you head south it's only 12 miles until you hit the county line and suburban developments ends. Yet this stretch carries between 250,000 and 350,000 vehicles per day, even with peaks up to 390,000 vehicles per day approaching the I-405 interchange.


----------



## italystf

Is a carpool lane the same as a HOV lane?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Pretty much. HOV stands for 'High Occupancy Vehicle'. Which also includes vanpools and buses.

HOV lanes are very uncommon on European motorways. Very few facilities exist, and they are often only for buses or taxis.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Los Angeles HOV system*

I made this map a while ago showing freeways with HOV lanes in red (it also includes some HOT lanes). As you can see the majority of the urban freeways have HOV lanes.


----------



## CNGL

I like how the CA 14 (former US 6, IMO they should have retained it all the way to Santa Clarita and truncated US 395 to Bishop instead) HOV lanes go on to cross a plate boundary, a true border crossing. But that belongs to the other thread as it is not an interstate.

Indeed, HOV lanes are unknown in Europe because of a thing which in turn is unknown in the USA: Public Transport[ation] . The only HOV lanes I know in this side of the pond are on Spanish A-6 Northwest of Madrid.


----------



## fredcalif

ChrisZwolle said:


> I made this map a while ago showing freeways with HOV lanes in red (it also includes some HOT lanes). As you can see the majority of the urban freeways have HOV lanes.


at one point California had almost half of the HOV lanes in the USA
I tried to find an updated list with all the metropolitan areas but I don't think there is one.

I know in Phoenix every freeway in the metro area have HOV lanes, but it is not the same case in other metro areas, where only one or a few freeways have HOV lanes


----------



## Botev1912

SounderBruce said:


> we strive to be more like Vancouver, which has a sensible transit network (despite recent failings of the administration, it still works) and elected to not build freeways and doesn't have massive traffic jams in the way that we do.


Actually, Vancouver has the 2nd worst traffic in North America behind LA. The good news is they have the amazing skytrain.


----------



## Suburbanist

I-80 near Green River, WY








Source


----------



## siamu maharaj

Buffaboy said:


> That's one crazy interchange. I remember being in a tour bus a couple years ago going through it. I thought _that_ was called the Chicago Loop.


Well close, it's called the circle! And good to see it being redesigned.


----------



## siamu maharaj

ChrisZwolle said:


> A northbound view over I-90/94 near downtown Chicago. You can see the I-290 interchange under reconstruction and the high exit density towards the Chicago Loop. The exit numbering goes up to 52H.


I like the fact that pretty much every street has its own exit. You don't get a whole blocked lane stretching a mile because there's a red light.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-70 Glenwood Canyon, Colorado*

A rockslide has closed I-70 in both directions through the Glenwood Canyon since yesterday. There have been no injuries, but the freeway sustained damage. The detour is 203 miles long, turning a 45 minute trip into a nearly 4 hour trip.

_The alternate route for westbound motorists is north on CO 131 at Wolcott to Steamboat Springs, west on US 40 to Craig, then south on CO 13 to Rifle and back to I-70. _
(per the Colorado Department of Transporation)


----------



## Buffaboy

mcarling said:


> A formal decision on routing of I-11 north of Reno is probably still ten years away, but Reno-Susanville-Klamath Falls-Bend-Redmond-Yakima is by far the most plausible route. Aside from terrain, catchment, and distance between Portland/Seattle and Reno/Las Vegas/Phoenix, also remember that Redmond, OR is the planned disaster recovery headquarters for the Pacific Northwest in the event of a major Cascadia Subduction Earthquake (or other similar emergency), so FEMA and Oregon's Office of Emergency Management want I-11 to pass through or near Redmond.


would it utilize I-580 in NV?


----------



## mcarling

Buffaboy said:


> would it utilize I-580 in NV?


I-11 is still at the earliest stage of determining which are the alternative corridors between Las Vegas and Reno. The only thing we know now is that the Reno - Las Vegas phase will terminate at I-80 somewhere near Reno. It will be a few years before we know whether I-11 will run through Fallon/Fernley or Yerington or Carson City. Nevada DOT just formally started exploring the possibilities, though I'm sure some of the employees have been thinking about it for years.

It would be nice to find a good routing through Carson City and then make use of I-580 but it's not obvious (to me) how to go southeast from Carson City to meet the US-95 corridor.


----------



## Buffaboy

*AET New York State Thruway*

On April 23, 2016 at 12 am, the temporary AET gantries will be activated on I-87/I-287 in Rockland County, near the Tappan Zee Bridge, the first AET module on the Thruway system. In the future, AET could replace the entire manned toll system that the NYSTA currently uses.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Interesting to see electronic toll systems beginning to spread. Toronto has had its major toll freeway operating electronically since it opened in 1997, it was the first in the world at the time. Whenever I go through a traditional toll booth in the US it seems so foreign.


----------



## rantanamo

hammersklavier said:


> Honestly I think everyone *inside *of the Dallas metroplex is scratching their heads at the purpose of the Trinity Parkway.
> 
> If you look at where those levees are -- at high water, the Trinity fills _everything_ in between, levee to levee.


corrected that for you :nuts:


----------



## siamu maharaj

Innsertnamehere said:


> Interesting to see electronic toll systems beginning to spread. Toronto has had its major toll freeway operating electronically since it opened in 1997, it was the first in the world at the time. Whenever I go through a traditional toll booth in the US it seems so foreign.


I am pretty sure Singapore did it first.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Electronic Road Pricing in Singapore was launched in September 1998, a year after the 407 opened to traffic. 

However, California 91 (Riverside Freeway) has all-electronic express lanes that opened in 1995.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

ah, so I guess the 407's claim to fame was that it was the first entire freeway to be tolled, as express lanes aren't an entire freeway


----------



## geogregor

It is all fine until you have to drive rental car. Car rental companies often add all sort of extra charges for using their cars in electronic toll lanes/roads.
For example in Florida rental cars can be used in SunPass lanes but there is extra daily fee on top of the actual toll every time you use it.

It's one of the reasons I like if there is option for the manual toll left. Often it comes cheaper for rental car


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ In Toronto (407-land) usually you don't even get the transponder in a rental
they'll charge you the "video toll" which is double the price or more
then the rental car agency will charge you a fee on top of that...
you might end up with a bill $50 for just driving a few km...

the advantage though is the 407 is usually free flowing and moving quickly, so driving the rental car (fastest car in the world natuerlich) is no problem


----------



## Nexis

Taken Yesterday from Hudson Heights


George Washington Bridge viewed from Hudson Heights in Upper Manhattan by Corey Best, on Flickr


George Washington Bridge viewed from Hudson Heights in Upper Manhattan by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

*Kosciuszko Bridge*

Taken Yesterday - 3/22/16


Kosciuszko Bridge viewed from the First Calvary Cemetery by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## sagger

^^ What is in the background? Is this new Kosciuszko Bridge?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, they are replacing the Kosciuszko Bridge

https://www.dot.ny.gov/kbridge


----------



## Nexis

I-495 / Long Island Expressway meets Greenpoint Ave


Long Island Expressway meets Greenpoint Avenue by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 595*

Interstate 595 in suburban Miami.


----------



## geogregor

I-10 in Florida panhandle.

P3090094 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P3090095 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P3090096 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P3090097 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P3090099 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

In general I found roads in Florida well kept. One of the best in the US.


----------



## Nexis

> Taken on 3/27/16 by Duck From NY over on SSP
> 
> The roadbed is on it's way to meeting the central supports
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supports on their way up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cranes on the NJ side


----


----------



## geogregor

More I-10 in Florida, this time eastbound:

P3110855 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P3110856 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P3110857 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P3110858 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P3110859 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P3110860 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P3110861 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


P3110862 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## Buffaboy

What kind of asphalt do they use in Florida for their interstates? It looks markedly different than that of NYS (picture below near Utica).

Interstate 90 - New York by Doug Kerr, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-55, Chicago*

The I-55 / Lake Shore Drive (US 41) interchange reconstruction.


I-55/Lake Shore Dr. Interchange Construction by Illinois Department of Transportation, on Flickr


I-55/Lake Shore Dr. Interchange Construction by Illinois Department of Transportation, on Flickr


I-55/Lake Shore Dr. Interchange Construction by Illinois Department of Transportation, on Flickr


----------



## Buffaboy

I've been on LSD once, it was 2 years ago. I always felt that it should be a freeway and not a 40 MPH parkway kind of thing.


----------



## keokiracer

Buffaboy said:


> I've been on LSD once


Selective quoting is fun


----------



## Nexis

Buffaboy said:


> ^^ I saw that on AARoads and thought it was a good plan, but unlikely to happen.
> 
> Nexis what is your opinion of an I-78 tunnel under Manhattan with an exit on the east and west side?


The Cost and complexity of a tunnel would outweigh the savings from decreased congestion. The Canal Street corridor is a complex area to tunnel with all the subway lines and soil conditions...



mcarling said:


> Tunnel boring costs are going down and Brooklyn land values are going up. Eventually it will be economically compelling.


The ROW that would be freed up is probably worth at least 10 billion if not more...


----------



## hammersklavier

Buffaboy said:


> I've been on LSD once


Is it better or worse than a mushrooms trip? :cheers:


Nexis said:


> The ROW that would be freed up is probably worth at least 10 billion if not more...


IIRC rail tunnels of that type are estimated at ~$1 bn/mile. This makes me wonder how much more expensive a road tunnel would be, and whether the project would pencil out, based on selling development options along the current ROW.


----------



## 00Zy99

Nexis said:


> The Cost and complexity of a tunnel would outweigh the savings from decreased congestion. The Canal Street corridor is a complex area to tunnel with all the subway lines and soil conditions...


What about a deep-bore no-exit tunnel? Sort of a bypass directly to either Brooklyn or Queens? Or even out towards Nassau? Take the load off of the LIE.


----------



## Buffaboy

hammersklavier said:


> Is it better or worse than a mushrooms trip? :cheers:
> 
> IIRC rail tunnels of that type are estimated at ~$1 bn/mile. This makes me wonder how much more expensive a road tunnel would be, and whether the project would pencil out, based on selling development options along the current ROW.


Wait wha? You can take a trip on a mushroom down the LSD in Chicago? Wasn't aware of that :lol: (and no I know nothing about the other one, it is scary).

Anyway...I don't want to get too off topic!


----------



## Nexis

00Zy99 said:


> What about a deep-bore no-exit tunnel? Sort of a bypass directly to either Brooklyn or Queens? Or even out towards Nassau? Take the load off of the LIE.


It would be expensive , the Brooklyn and Queens side would be very complex...due to the various Redevelopment plans underway which are turning the former Industrial areas into Residential...


----------



## hammersklavier

Buffaboy said:


> Wait wha? You can take a trip on a mushroom down the LSD in Chicago? Wasn't aware of that :lol:


Sounds like you were on LSD in more than one kind of way! :lol:


> (and no I know nothing about the other one, it is scary).


From what I hear, once you ingest it, LSD _never leaves your body_. :nuts: Other kinds of cactus juice




are safer.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-35 Austin, TX*

Plans have been unveiled for a project to add 3 more direct connectors to the I-35 / US 183 interchange in Austin, Texas.

The current interchange features only 2 direct connectors, south to west and vice versa. Other turns will need to use the frontage roads. This project will add 3 more direct connectors;

* I-35 southbound to US 183 southbound
* US 183 northbound to I-35 northbound
* I-35 southbound to US 183 northbound

The project cost is $ 204 million. The project is scheduled to start in fall 2017 and will be completed by 2020.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*North Carolina*

North Carolina has requested two new Interstate numbers in the state;

* I-36: would run across US 70 from Garner (near Raleigh) to Havelock, via Goldsboro and New Bern. The proposed route is approximately 137 miles long.
* I-89: would run across US 64 and US 17 from Raleigh to the Virginia border south of Norfolk. The proposed route is approximately 179 miles long.


----------



## sotonsi

^^ odd choices!

As for I-89


> The State of North Carolina has coordinated with the Commonwealth of Virginia and they concur with the proposed I-89 route number. While the I-89 route designation is utilized in the states of New Hampshire and Vermont, it is requested due to the increasing difficulty in identifying an Interstate number that meets the criteria and is not currently in use. Confusion between other occurrences of the I-89 route is unlikely due to a significant separation of the Interstate Routes. Additionally, adding another current Interstate route that is non-continuous is not a unique occurrence. As individual portions of the proposed alignment are constructed or upgraded to interstate standards, separate AASHTO applications requesting the addition of those portions to the interstate system will be submitted for review.


----------



## prageethSL

Dallas horseshoe project construction progress






















































http://dallashorseshoe.com/aerial-photos-april-2016/


----------



## CNGL

However this would be the first time of a North-South duplication, all other instances (I-76, I-84, I-86, I-88) are East-West

In addition to I-36 (which should have been I-38 IMO, so Caltrans would have to renumber I-238) and the Southern I-89, there's also a request for I-14, this time by Texas.


----------



## zaphod

Does it at least run mostly north and south and exist east of 85?

I can see the logic, I've always strongly felt numbers should reflect corridors not segments. This keeps things simple and respects the main intent of the numbering system. Otherwise you end up with too many unique numbered roads and exhaust the good ones, creating a mess. E.G a potential Houston to Austin interstate would be best signed as I-12.


----------



## sotonsi

zaphod said:


> Does it at least run mostly north and south and exist east of 85?


I'm not sure even the I-495 portion is more n-s than e-w. But the bit north of Elizabeth City would be, I guess.

Most of proposed I-89 it is east of I-95, and more e-w than n-s. It's also hard to claim 'diagonal' for it - it is significantly more e-w than n-s. But I guess it is roughly perpendicular to I-26, and roughly parallel to I-85.

NC have previously requested I-44 for this corridor.


----------



## Kanadzie

Why don't they just classify it as a state route? Intrastate interstates are so strange...


----------



## sotonsi

I-89 isn't an intrastate interstate - it will cross a state line (unlike I-36). And the whole concept of intrastate interstates being oxymoronic relies on a misunderstanding of the concept behind interstates - it's the network that is interstate, not the highways.

I don't see why they should classify it as a state route - both corridors are already US routes, and state routes are lower down the pecking order. While the numbers sought aren't great, there's no reason why these corridors shouldn't be added to the interstate network (ie raised up a level), and signed as interstates once they meet the geometric requirements.


----------



## sonysnob

I-405 in Bellevue, Washington:


----------



## gregduh

There always seems to be so much vegetation along the roads in Seattle. I wish we could say that about Buffalo.


----------



## Buffaboy

gregduh said:


> There always seems to be so much vegetation along the roads in Seattle. I wish we could say that about Buffalo.


If I-90 were built with a separation within the toll barriers, something like that may have been possible. Maybe they'll do it when they widen it to 8 lanes in the coming years.


----------



## SounderBruce

Buffaboy said:


> If I-90 were built with a separation within the toll barriers, something like that may have been possible. Maybe they'll do it when they widen it to 8 lanes in the coming years.


Our section of I-90 is quite green:


----------



## Buffaboy

^^ Even the trees in the middle make a big difference, but that overhead shot with the lid is just fantastic for a highway.


----------



## g.spinoza

Some pictures taken during my recent trip to Colorado. Here is I-70 between exit 216 (US 6 to Loveland Pass) and 205 (Silverthorne), including Eisenhower tunnel:


----------



## Joshua Dodd

This is a visual of the entire I-30 corridor reconfiguration project in Arlington. Included in this visual presentation is the new mix master for the 30 and 360 interchange. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMxIf8t_jHE&feature=youtu.be


----------



## Joshua Dodd

Some more video visuals! This is a visual of the 35 Express Project between Denton and Lewisville, Tx. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlzSSz3FUiw&spfreload=5


----------



## g.spinoza

*I-70 between Minturn and Glenwood Springs*

Some pictures taken during my recent trip to Colorado. Here is I-70 between exit 171 (Minturn) and 116 (Glenwood Springs), including stunning Glenwood Canyon:










Roadworks near Eagle-Vail:

















You cannot see it, but the car in front of me is plated "EXAKTLY":









































The beginning of Glenwood Canyon:

















































Roadworks in the canyon, too:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Glenwood Canyon is amazing 

By the way, you could zoom in a bit, or crop some of the dashboard away


----------



## g.spinoza

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Glenwood Canyon is amazing
> 
> By the way, you could zoom in a bit, or crop some of the dashboard away


Too many pictures, don't have the time to crop them all...


----------



## Nexis

*Tappan zee bridge tractor truck accident*


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Wow, that was lucky for the dashcam driver.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*El Paso, TX*

A cloverleaf with a full directional interchange (stack) on top of it in El Paso, Texas. I-10 intersects with Loop 375 here.


----------



## Nexis

*Tappan Zee Accident Witness*


----------



## Nexis

New Tappan Zee Bridge - 5/20/16


Tappan Zee Bridge Construction by Corey Best, on Flickr


Tappan Zee Bridge Construction by Corey Best, on Flickr


Tappan Zee Bridge Construction by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## geogregor

I-95 widening in south Florida:





It looks like they are doing the last 2x2 stretches between Cape Canaveral and Miami.


----------



## sonysnob

Caltrans has been working on a full-scale replacement of the I-15/I-215 interchange in Devore at the bottom of Cajon Pass for a number of years. They have reversed the exit, so I-215 no longer exits from the left side of the freeway and have added truck by-pass lanes to I-15 in both the north and southbound directions:

Some before photos taken during construction in December, 2014


















Almost complete photos taken last month:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I believe there are a couple of truck bypass routes at major interchanges in Southern California. They're rare in Europe, I'm aware of only one such interchange (Hattenbach interchange in Germany).

They're quite useful on major truck corridors, it prevents a long line of trucks having to move over a couple of lanes to the left to continue on I-15.


----------



## sonysnob

^ Yeah, truck lanes are pretty common in Southern California. Less so in other parts of the US though.


----------



## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> I believe there are a couple of truck bypass routes at major interchanges in Southern California. They're rare in Europe, I'm aware of only one such interchange (Hattenbach interchange in Germany).


What about the Terbregseplein interchange at Rotterdam?


----------



## mcarling

geogregor said:


> It looks like they are doing the last 2x2 stretches between Cape Canaveral and Miami.


With SpaceX ramping up the launch rate, I suppose there will be more traffic to Cape Canaveral. :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are numerous freeway stretches that have a median that's (much) wider than 36 feet, both in forested areas (such as I-64 in eastern Virginia) or on the plains (such as I-25 in Wyoming).


----------



## Joshua Dodd

Horseshoe Project update:
One more year!
To anyone confused as to why they are building these incongruously impressive bridges over the Trinity River "creek", it is because they are planning on flooding this part of the Trinity and turning it into a lake for a larger park project that will feature steamboats, floating platforms ect. All the bridges here have to be rebuilt first in order to accommodate the explosive growth of the city and Metroplex. Our Metro in 5 years has added 700,000 people. Again, until the bridges are all built and rebuilt then they will be able to permanently flood the Trinity.


----------



## 00Zy99

So how are they going to do the flooding?

A dam? De-channelization?


----------



## rantanamo

00Zy99 said:


> So how are they going to do the flooding?
> 
> A dam? De-channelization?


IF, big IF, it ever happens, they will dig the lakes and move the main channel. The last plan I saw created a reverse flow channel to keep two connected lakes fed. The original river meandered more towards downtown, so manipulation of the river through downtown is nothing new. But that is a huge, HUGE if. The battle over doing anything with the park is epic and tiresome. I personally wish they would focus more resources on the areas adjacent to the river. Has to be the most embarrasing riverfront in America.

[RANT]And my biggest complaint about this project is the overcomplication of what is simply two freeways crossing each other in the name of building around every damn thing. Can't believe they are leaving the downtown portion split with these middle on and off ramps. I swear TXDOT is in the business of making things complicated when its not necessary. As someone that drives this mess everyday, I can see some good things, but man they are just trying to do too much. You don't have to connect every damn road and have frontage road every where.[/RANT]


----------



## Stuck in Bama

I-22/I-65 north interchange north of downtown Birmingham will open to traffic June 20th.

http://abc3340.com/news/local/ribbon-cutting-for-i-22-set-for-june-20


----------



## 00Zy99

rantanamo said:


> IF, big IF, it ever happens, they will dig the lakes and move the main channel. The last plan I saw created a reverse flow channel to keep two connected lakes fed. The original river meandered more towards downtown, so manipulation of the river through downtown is nothing new. But that is a huge, HUGE if. The battle over doing anything with the park is epic and tiresome.


Hmmm. Got any images? Maps? Links? Hot dogs?



> I personally wish they would focus more resources on the areas adjacent to the river. Has to be the most embarrasing riverfront in America.


Philadelphia and Manhattan would like to have some discussions with you.

(curse you, I-95!!)



> [RANT]And my biggest complaint about this project is the overcomplication of what is simply two freeways crossing each other in the name of building around every damn thing. Can't believe they are leaving the downtown portion split with these middle on and off ramps. I swear TXDOT is in the business of making things complicated when its not necessary. As someone that drives this mess everyday, I can see some good things, but man they are just trying to do too much. You don't have to connect every damn road and have frontage road every where.[/RANT]


Hear, hear.

With sensible planning you could probably cut the footprint in half, and open up some excellent real estate along the riverfront.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-77, North Carolina*

There is a very good chance that the concession for the construction of the I-77 toll lanes north of Charlotte will be canceled. 

The North Carolina house voted 80-28 to cancel the toll contract with Cintra. It will now move to the senate. 

Construction on this project is already underway and was planned for completion in 2018. Earlier reports indicated $ 250 million would have to be paid to cancel the contract. 

The I-77 express lanes project:


----------



## rantanamo

Dallas' riverfront consist of a county jail, bail bonds, a few gas stations and fast food and 1 story industrial use all sparsely built. There is no worse riverfront in this country. If you didn't turn to the north you would not even realize you are a couple of blocks from the downtown of the 9th largest city in the US or even realize you're in a metro area of over 7 million. Its that bad.

This is the best pic I can find of the current plans. As you can see, the lake portion has been shrunken significiantly, but you can see the diverted channel into a more natural meander to the south with a reverse flow channel for the "lakes", which now seem to be like a diversion channel. The far shore is south, while what's nearer in the pic is the downtown side or north side.


----------



## Nexis

Interstate 95 in Ridgefield Park,NJ


New Jersey Turnpike in Ridgefield Park,NJ by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Joshua Dodd

All the crap fast food joints, old industrial buildings, bail bonds and liquor stores along the riverfront are planned for demolition. As for the jail, I'm not sure what will be done of it. I can only hope that they will relocate it somewhere else and demolish what is currently there. Nonetheless, all that garbage down there is going to be demolished for new development. 

You forget that area used to be exclusively industrial. Hint the name Industrial Blvd. Riverfront Blvd is the new name for Industrial Blvd. It was changed to Riverfront in the past few years.


----------



## 00Zy99

rantanamo said:


> Dallas' riverfront consist of a county jail, bail bonds, a few gas stations and fast food and 1 story industrial use all sparsely built. There is no worse riverfront in this country. If you didn't turn to the north you would not even realize you are a couple of blocks from the downtown of the 9th largest city in the US or even realize you're in a metro area of over 7 million. Its that bad.


Philadelphia:

Blank walls of a casino

I-95!

sprawling concrete plaza with nothing to do

I-95!

Ikea

I-95!

Old industrial stuff.

I-95!

SS United States (abandoned)

I-95!

Also, on the other side,

I-76!

Petroleum tank farms

I-76!

Rail yards

etc. 

etc.



> This is the best pic I can find of the current plans. As you can see, the lake portion has been shrunken significiantly, but you can see the diverted channel into a more natural meander to the south with a reverse flow channel for the "lakes", which now seem to be like a diversion channel. The far shore is south, while what's nearer in the pic is the downtown side or north side.


Thank you very much!


----------



## Suburbanist

What about the Trinity River Freeway? I don't see it in the renders.


----------



## sonysnob

Some photos of the new NY Bridge under construction that will replace the current Tappan Zee Bridge (I-87/287):









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/NY/I/287/I287_dv_17-5_east_May16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/NY/I/287/I287_structure_18_northeast_May16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/NY/I/287/I287_structure_18_east_May16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/NY/I/287/I287_structure_18_southwest_May16_24x16.jpg


----------



## rantanamo

Suburbanist said:


> What about the Trinity River Freeway? I don't see it in the renders.


If you look at the near levee on the model I posted, look at the neat alignment of trees. That's it.


----------



## Johnpet

On June 29, 1956, President Dwight Eisenhower signed the Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956, which created a 41,000-mile "National System of Interstate and Defense Highways" that would become America's most important transportation infrastructure—and one of the world's modern wonders. 

Designed to reach every city with a population of more than 100,000, the system significantly changed American landscapes and lives, increasing ease of travel and affecting the way business is conducted.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Dallas-Fort Worth is the least congested urban area in the world with a population over 5 million, the TomTom Traffic Index shows.

https://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/trafficindex/list

American cities overwhelmingly dominate the list of least congested large cities.


----------



## siamu maharaj

ChrisZwolle said:


> Dallas-Fort Worth is the least congested urban area in the world with a population over 5 million, the TomTom Traffic Index shows.
> 
> https://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/trafficindex/list
> 
> American cities overwhelmingly dominate the list of least congested large cities.


Don't tell that to the crowd that says more highways = more congestion.


----------



## CNGL

Well, the Braess' paradox can occur. So they are partially right about that.


----------



## hacci

Well it's because of uncontrolled sprawl, I believe.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's interesting that out of 45 least congested urban areas with a population over 800,000, 43 are in the United States. Kansas City is the least congested urban area with a population over 2 million.


----------



## Tom 958

geogregor said:


> Standard median width is 36 feet (11 meters). Here it is way more.





ChrisZwolle said:


> There are numerous freeway stretches that have a median that's (much) wider than 36 feet, both in forested areas (such as I-64 in eastern Virginia) or on the plains (such as I-25 in Wyoming).


Without attempting to quantify it, I'll assert that a large majority of Interstates have medians of about sixty feet. That was more or less the standard in the sixties and early seventies when most of the system was built. I say "more or less" because different states have different standards: 64 for my own state of Georgia, a bit more for South Carolina, fifty sixish (c/o Google Earth) in Alabama. And in some states with a policy of providing wide medians on Interstates, sixty feet was still the standard for non-Interstate rural freeways.


----------



## browntown

CNGL said:


> Well, the Braess' paradox can occur. So they are partially right about that.


The problem is that NIMBYs see the instances where this happens and assume it means that EVERY new road is a bad thing. Like anything in life poor planning can lead to bad results, but that's a reason for more city planning, not for less infrastructure growth.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

hacci said:


> Well it's because of uncontrolled sprawl, I believe.


Or, just maybe, it could be the resulting consequence of very thorough, long term logistical planning that's calculated population growth factors into projects. And we are talking about long term planning that spans for the past 60 years; speaking for DFW.


----------



## siamu maharaj

browntown said:


> The problem is that NIMBYs see the instances where this happens and assume it means that EVERY new road is a bad thing. Like anything in life poor planning can lead to bad results, but that's a reason for more city planning, not for less infrastructure growth.


This kind of abuse of statistics is very common. Normally a study says "in 60% of the cases, under X circumstances, A causes B, we can say so with 90% certainty". People read "in 100% of the cases, under all circumstances, A causes B, no exceptions, no uncertainty" and quote it all over the internet. It's just impossible to reason with them.


----------



## mcarling

siamu maharaj said:


> This kind of abuse of statistics is very common. Normally a study says "in 60% of the cases, under X circumstances, A causes B, we can say so with 90% certainty". People read "in 100% of the cases, under all circumstances, A causes B, no exceptions, no uncertainty" and quote it all over the internet. It's just impossible to reason with them.


There is an even worse abuse of statistics by those calculating them: the application of statistics to phenomena which are neither gaussian random nor poisson random, and therefore are undefined. Economists do this all the time and then claim that "it's a good approximation" when it fact it's nonsense.


----------



## siamu maharaj

mcarling said:


> There is an even worse abuse of statistics by those calculating them: the application of statistics to phenomena which are neither gaussian random nor poisson random, and therefore are undefined. Economists do this all the time and then claim that "it's a good approximation" when it fact it's nonsense.


Preaching to the choir. I have always maintained that statistics is the biggest fraud in modern history. The fact it's consider science is a mockery of the word science. Statistics can be twisted to come to whatever conclusion you want. It is inherently biased, which is the exact opposite of science.


----------



## Suburbanist

siamu maharaj said:


> Preaching to the choir. I have always maintained that statistics is the biggest fraud in modern history. The fact it's consider science is a mockery of the word science. Statistics can be twisted to come to whatever conclusion you want. It is inherently biased, which is the exact opposite of science.


This is completely non-sense. Engineering, Finance, Medicine - none can exist without Statistics.


----------



## siamu maharaj

Suburbanist said:


> This is completely non-sense. Engineering, Finance, Medicine - none can exist without Statistics.


Going way off-topic, so will just say that we're talking about different things.

Let's get back to highways now.


----------



## sonysnob

Some I-5 SoCal goodness:


----------



## Blackraven

Question:










Where is the exit for non-carpool vehicles?


----------



## zaphod

This is kind of random, but I was just watching a recent episode of the animated TV show Archer. There is a scene where the main characters are riding in a convertible on a freeway in Southern California.

The show is known for its elaborate animation and backgrounds that look like they were modeled/photoshopped out of real images, and I spent some time pausing the video on my cable box trying to figure out if it was on a real highway or not based the signs. You know like any normal SSC member would do, lol.

Long story short, I'm pretty sure the animators drove that road and used photos to skin 3d models or whatever for the scene. The sign with 91 pointing towards Artesia is there and so are those mid-rise buildings. Go figure.


----------



## mvcg66b3r

Blackraven said:


> Question:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the exit for non-carpool vehicles?


Katella Avenue or State College Blvd.


----------



## tjfd88

zaphod said:


> This is kind of random, but I was just watching a recent episode of the animated TV show Archer. There is a scene where the main characters are riding in a convertible on a freeway in Southern California.
> 
> The show is known for its elaborate animation and backgrounds that look like they were modeled/photoshopped out of real images, and I spent some time pausing the video on my cable box trying to figure out if it was on a real highway or not based the signs. You know like any normal SSC member would do, lol.
> 
> Long story short, I'm pretty sure the animators drove that road and used photos to skin 3d models or whatever for the scene. The sign with 91 pointing towards Artesia is there and so are those mid-rise buildings. Go figure.


They also did a very good job in another episode where the titular character has to travel from Montreal to New York City with rather accurate signs for Quebec and New York highways, and an Ontario sign there for some reason. Even the font was pretty close.


----------



## Nexis

*Newark Bay Bridge*


Newark Bay & Port Newark in the Early Evening hours - Bayonne,NJ by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Xusein

I thought that the roads here in WA were ugly, but I guess California has us beat. 

The pics are great though.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ it's just the signs that start to turn black...
but I wonder if its pollution or that the dry air is making the signs hold up longer than up north, and they're actually original?


----------



## fredcalif

I10 Phoenix Metro


----------



## Xusein

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ it's just the signs that start to turn black...
> but I wonder if its pollution or that the dry air is making the signs hold up longer than up north, and they're actually original?


There are grooves all over the concrete that have permeated into the paving. The quality looks very bad in comparison to the road in the post above me from Arizona.


----------



## Exethalion

The grooves are from rather coarse diamond grinding of the concrete surface, to smooth over wear and increase grip. It doesn't look pretty but is important on CA's heavily used highways.


----------



## myosh_tino

Exethalion said:


> The grooves are from rather coarse diamond grinding of the concrete surface, to smooth over wear and increase grip. It doesn't look pretty but is important on CA's heavily used highways.


Actually, those grooves look like they were made when the concrete was poured and are there to provide additional traction when it rains. Water on smooth concrete is a recipe for disaster. The only real issue with this type of grooving is an increase in road noise.



Xusein said:


> There are grooves all over the concrete that have permeated into the paving. The quality looks very bad in comparison to the road in the post above me from Arizona.


That's like comparing apples to oranges. Asphalt roads, like those in the Arizona pictures, do not need to be grooved because of their porous nature.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 17 in Arizona*

A new project to add capacity on I-17 north of Phoenix appears to gain traction. $ 3 million has been allocated to design two reversible lanes in the median of I-17 from Black Canyon City to Sunset Point, a good 40 miles north of Phoenix. This is the stretch of freeway with long grades. I-17 climbs from 2,000 ft in Black Canyon City to some 3,200 ft near Sunset Point. The reversible lanes would be approximately 8 miles long. Construction is still 6-7 years away though.

http://www.dcourier.com/news/2016/jun/27/reversible-lane-project-i-17-planned-adot/


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 35 in Texas*

A project to widen I-35 from four to six lanes south of Waco has been completed. The $ 169 million project widened 10 miles of I-35 between Bruceville-Eddy and Waco.


----------



## Xusein

I-275westcoastfl said:


> This is a project that will cost billions, not improve traffic, and tear through the center of the city. What is needed is an alternate highway that goes east-west. *Here in Seattle the tolled express lanes on the 405 made traffic worse for example*.


Depends on your location and willingness to pay. 

If you live north of 522 and don't pay, likely it's way worse.

But if you live south of 522 and do pay, I'd gather it would be way better.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

ChrisZwolle said:


> A general purpose lane or HOV lane? Normally these tolled express lanes / managed lanes / HOT lanes are a conversion from an HOV lane to a tolled lane.
> 
> Converting regular lanes into toll lanes wouldn't be very popular.


Its a general purpose lane. There are no HOV lanes in the Tampa Bay area, one thing which I think is a good thing.



Xusein said:


> Depends on your location and willingness to pay.
> 
> If you live north of 522 and don't pay, likely it's way worse.
> 
> But if you live south of 522 and do pay, I'd gather it would be way better.


Of course its better if you pay, but for anyone in the general lanes its worse. Not to mention increased traffic on I-5 and surrounding roads. I'm lucky that with my work schedule I can generally avoid the whole mess since you can use the HOV/HOT lanes after 7pm for free and without the HOV requirement.


----------



## SounderBruce

And for bus riders and vanpool drivers, it's also working...

And why would a lack of HOV lanes be a good thing? You please both sides by (a) adding priority for buses and carpools and (b) not taking a GP lane to do so, in most cases.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ they tend to cause a lot of accidents from speed differential
and typically are inefficient (they will speed up a few people, but if it was a general lane, everyone would speed up a little, but globally, more time will be saved)


----------



## Xusein

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Of course its better if you pay, but for anyone in the general lanes its worse. Not to mention increased traffic on I-5 and surrounding roads. I'm lucky that with my work schedule I can generally avoid the whole mess since you can use the HOV/HOT lanes after 7pm for free and without the HOV requirement.


That's why I bit the bullet and got a Good to Go pass.


----------



## ADCS

00Zy99 said:


> Maybe because it will take land, add noise, and add emissions.


Traffic flow in Tampa is horrendous to begin with. Improving throughput from the suburbs may actually help emissions, rather than harm them, by reducing standstill traffic.

Most of the takings for this project had already been enacted in previous projects. The most controversial section, 275 north of 4, doesn't appear to have more than a few dozen takings in its most recent iteration. It's unfortunate, but these properties had already had their ultimate value diminished when it was I-75 cutting through there 50 years ago.

Furthermore, I've noticed FDOT goes above and beyond many other jurisdictions in the Sun Belt as far as sound mitigation.



I-275westcoastfl said:


> This is a project that will cost billions, not improve traffic, and tear through the center of the city. What is needed is an alternate highway that goes east-west. Here in Seattle the tolled express lanes on the 405 made traffic worse for example.


Cost is, and has always been, only an argument for those opposed to the project to begin with.

I'm failing to see how separating suburban through traffic from local traffic won't help traffic flow - and I'm saying this as someone who drove from Busch to Downtown on a regular basis in recent years. Everyone gets jammed at the I-4 bottleneck. Getting the suburban traffic out of the way will alleviate much of the issue.

No disagreement that an alternative east-west route is needed, but good luck getting Hillsborough Ave converted to a freeway - that's a political nightmare waiting to happen. Creating anything north of there, including the once-planned outer belt, will run into even worse suburban politics.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Many express lane projects have been very positive for traffic flow though. I think the performance of the I-405 express lanes is more of an exception than a rule.
> 
> As far as I'm aware, these express lanes in the Tampa Bay Area are all planned to be new capacity, perhaps taking an HOV lane at worst (I'm not sure if the Tampa area actually has many HOV lanes).


There are no HOV lanes in Tampa - blew my mind when I moved there.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

SounderBruce said:


> And for bus riders and vanpool drivers, it's also working...
> 
> And why would a lack of HOV lanes be a good thing? You please both sides by (a) adding priority for buses and carpools and (b) not taking a GP lane to do so, in most cases.


When I used to commute from Everett to Seattle I witnessed why they don't work. Basically at every on/off ramp traffic came to a stop as buses, vanpools, and cars cut across all lanes to get to the HOV lane. Traffic would flow much better if this didn't occur. HOV lanes also seem to encourage camping in the left lane which is for passing. There's a reason people joke that in Seattle the right lane is the passing lane. Very few countries outside of the US have HOV lanes, they just aren't efficient. 




Kanadzie said:


> ^^ they tend to cause a lot of accidents from speed differential
> and typically are inefficient (they will speed up a few people, but if it was a general lane, everyone would speed up a little, but globally, more time will be saved)


Exactly.



Xusein said:


> That's why I bit the bullet and got a Good to Go pass.


I have a GTG pass but not the HOT one. Luckily don't really need it.




ADCS said:


> Cost is, and has always been, only an argument for those opposed to the project to begin with.
> 
> I'm failing to see how separating suburban through traffic from local traffic won't help traffic flow - and I'm saying this as someone who drove from Busch to Downtown on a regular basis in recent years. Everyone gets jammed at the I-4 bottleneck. Getting the suburban traffic out of the way will alleviate much of the issue.
> 
> No disagreement that an alternative east-west route is needed, but good luck getting Hillsborough Ave converted to a freeway - that's a political nightmare waiting to happen. Creating anything north of there, including the once-planned outer belt, will run into even worse suburban politics.
> 
> There are no HOV lanes in Tampa - blew my mind when I moved there.


The TBX project won't separate thru traffic from local traffic. You're assuming those people will use the HOT lanes which only a small percentage will. Your second point is valid, thats what created the mess in the first place.


----------



## ADCS

I-275westcoastfl said:


> The TBX project won't separate thru traffic from local traffic. You're assuming those people will use the HOT lanes which only a small percentage will. Your second point is valid, thats what created the mess in the first place.


Plenty of East Pasco and New Tampanians who will use those lanes to get to Disney/the beach 25 minutes faster, I'd say.


----------



## SounderBruce

I-275westcoastfl said:


> When I used to commute from Everett to Seattle I witnessed why they don't work. Basically at every on/off ramp traffic came to a stop as buses, vanpools, and cars cut across all lanes to get to the HOV lane. Traffic would flow much better if this didn't occur. HOV lanes also seem to encourage camping in the left lane which is for passing. There's a reason people joke that in Seattle the right lane is the passing lane. Very few countries outside of the US have HOV lanes, they just aren't efficient.


Well, during peak hours the buses generally are constrained to only using the HOV direct access ramps at places like Lynnwood TC and Broadway in Everett. The solution is obviously to build more of these and open up a limited few to carpools.

And the cutting-across is a huge issue, even in non-HOV situations like the 45th/Ship Canal-520-Mercer weave. The latter pair is particularly bad and probably contributes greatly to downtown traffic, and won't be solved anytime soon.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

Horseshoe Project month of June's progress report:


----------



## rantanamo

definitely early June as they have opened some of the new ramps on I-30


----------



## fredcalif

no state can compete with Texas, they are buildings freeways everywhere and bigger and biggers


----------



## ttownfeen

I hope they can move on to making the area around the junction look less like a concrete wasteland.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

^^ That's indeed going to be the case once construction is complete. Riverfront Blvd will be rebuilt and the old run down and parking lots around it will be demolished for a new wave of development.


----------



## ukraroad

Joshua Dodd said:


> <photos>



It really looks like a real waste of space(as for a European). I hope they make a park or something like that...


----------



## Luki_SL

^^Where would you like to make a park and for whom ?:nuts:


----------



## Suburbanist

*Downtown Houston freeway realignment and removal plan*

This should be interesting if carried onward as proposed by TxDOT. Maximum freeway lane point-count: 28 lanes!
Source (there is also a video there)









.








.








.








.








.








.








.


----------



## Koesj

^^ I think it was already discussed back when the article was posted (and linked to) in april.

Anyone know if there's news?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They hope for a record of decision in 2018 and a possible construction start by 2020, according to the experts over at AARoads.


----------



## Paddington

Massive, these new projects.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Ohio*

I'm delving into the Ohio Interstate Highway history this weekend, using ODOTs state highway maps and Google Earth historical imagery.

Ohio seems to have one of the better freeway systems in the U.S. Maybe not by pavement quality per se, but many Interstates have been widened to six lanes between major cities and they have done a lot of reconstruction work over the past 10 years or so. Major bridges in the Cuyahoga Valley have been replaced or will be replaced soon. I-75 through Dayton has been rebuilt nearly entirely. I-280 in Toledo has been upgraded in 2007. Stretches of I-270 around Columbus have been expanded, as well as parts of I-271 around Cleveland.

Ohio cities also rank low on congestion. According to the TomTom Traffic Index (Travel Time Index) for 2015, Ohio cities rank lower than their size would indicate. For instance Cincinnati is the 28th largest MSA, but only has the 52nd highest TTI. Similarly, Cleveland is the 31st largest MSA, but only has the 65th highest TTI. Dayton is the second least congested urban area in the U.S., only Knoxville, TN is less congested. Columbus is ranking favorably as well.

Governor Kasich recently stated that Ohio has one of the best infrastructure in the U.S., stating that 'you go to Indiana or New York, and you don't have the infrastructure we have'. Maybe it's a bit of an exaggeration, but Ohio does rank (slightly) better than the U.S. average and New York and Indiana on the Infrastructure Report Card.


----------



## ChuckScraperMiami#1

That's a shame, 40 Years Later after a Barge knocked over the Southbound 2 Lane side of the two bridges back then that killed 35 People with Their cars and a Greyhound Bus, they rebuilt the Bridge over 1 Billion dollars stronger and still only 2 Lanes on Both sides of an important I - 275 Interstate into St. Petersburg and Tampa from The South of the Cities into I -75 to South Florida, such a waste of taxpayers money, 



geogregor said:


> Sunshine Skyway Bridge driving northbound towards Tampa:


----------



## 00Zy99

^^ At the time, all of the studies only showed a need for four lanes. Besides, the bridge seems to be moving well.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The average traffic on the Sunshine Skyway Bridge was 57,700 vehicles per day in 2015. A four-lane freeway can definitely handle such volumes without a significant level of congestion. It may be full at times, but there are four-lane freeways that carry 80,000 - 100,000 vehicles per day.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

The largest drawback to the Skyway Bridge is it needs to be taller and possibly wider to handle the growing size of ships. Making it with 3x3 lanes would be good too.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-30 Fort Worth, Texas*

24 lanes and 4 tracks crossing the Clear Fork of the Trinity River in Fort Worth, Texas.

Left to right: I-30, connectors, Chisholm Trail Parkway, railroad & Rosedale Street.


----------



## sonysnob

^ The stuff that Texas builds is amazing. While I am not sure that building a seemingly never ending supply of roadway capacity is the best way to build a city, I have to say, I've visited Texas a number of times now, and life seems pretty easy down there. Land is cheap, and mobility is easy.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-65, Tennessee*

Another stretch of I-65 in Tennessee has been widened, south of Nashville, between SR-248 and SR-840 near Franklin. It has been widened from four to eight lanes, the project was completed on June 15.

I tried to find a higher resolution version of this photo, but couldn't find it.


----------



## Blackraven

sonysnob said:


> ^ The stuff that Texas builds is amazing. While I am not sure that building a seemingly never ending supply of roadway capacity is the best way to build a city, I have to say, I've visited Texas a number of times now, and life seems pretty easy down there. Land is cheap, and mobility is easy.


As the saying goes:


----------



## Cyborg13

ChrisZwolle said:


> A project to widen I-35 from four to six lanes south of Waco has been completed. The $ 169 million project widened 10 miles of I-35 between Bruceville-Eddy and Waco.


That stretch is done, but it's still a mess between Bruceville-Eddy and Temple, and south of Temple. A long way to go before it's done all the way through to Austin.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

ChrisZwolle said:


> 24 lanes and 4 tracks crossing the Clear Fork of the Trinity River in Fort Worth, Texas.
> 
> Left to right: I-30, connectors, Chisholm Trail Parkway, railroad & Rosedale Street.


It's so beautiful. So gawd dang beautiful, I tell ya hwut.


----------



## Nexis

*Tappan Zee Bridge Crane Collapse*


----------



## Nexis

*Cuomo Tappan Zee Crane Collapse Update*







*Crane Fell In Front Of Man’s Car*


----------



## Nexis

Goethals Bridge Construction photos by Mitch Waxman 


r_160715016_beat0042_a by Mitch Waxman, on Flickr


r_160715019_beat0042_a by Mitch Waxman, on Flickr


pan_160715026_32_beat0042_a by Mitch Waxman, on Flickr


pan_160715039_042_beat0042_a by Mitch Waxman, on Flickr


----------



## JohnFlint1985

Nexis said:


> *Cuomo Tappan Zee Crane Collapse Update*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Crane Fell In Front Of Man’s Car*


 how in God's name did this happen??? :nuts:


----------



## AsHalt

Possibly wind or metal stresses or just pure human...


----------



## Luki_SL

^^There is no other possibility


----------



## geogregor

Luki_SL said:


> ^^There is no other possibility


Well, how about UFO?


----------



## StoJa9

Jschmuck said:


> A major interstate(new interstate) reconstruction/expansion in Green Bay, WI is ending this year after 7 years, expanding the highway from 2-3 lanes in each direction to 3-5 lanes in each direction in various spots. Also included is a brand new system interchange (previously service interchange) with WI-29 and reconstruction of an existing interstate to interstate interchange;
> 
> http://wbay.com/2016/07/28/the-last-summer-for-i-41-construction/
> 
> http://us41wisconsin.gov/


Hate the Packers but love the "G" logo carved into the overpass, as well as some of the other artwork and even street names. Wish we had that kind of creativity in our infrastructure here in Minnesota.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

Howdy ya'll! I've got a new update for the Dallas Horseshoe Project! Now the heat in Texas has been unbearable, but the heat isn't enough to hinder progress! 

I am happy to report that the final piece of the arch has been put in place! Yeehaw!





































Just about all the new ramps are open to traffic. There have been exponential signs of congestion ease ever since now that all traces of the old, obsolete and highly dilapidated bridges are gone! 









































































Won't be too long now!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-35, Austin, Texas*

I-35 through Austin has long been one of the biggest bottlenecks in Texas. They want to 'improve mobility' while minimizing the right-of-way requirements.

I-35 is separated in three projects, called 'South10', 'Central7' and 'North16'. The numbers indicate the distance of the project in miles, so 33 miles or 53 kilometers in total.

The plan is roughly the same for each segment, construct one tolled express lane in each direction. This would result in one of the longest express lanes in the country. 

Construction is scheduled to begin in 2020. The overall cost is estimated at $ 1.3-1.4 billion, or over $ 1.5 billion if 'Central7' would be constructed below grade.


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> I-35 through Austin has long been one of the biggest bottlenecks in Texas. They want to 'improve mobility' while minimizing the right-of-way requirements.
> 
> I-35 is separated in three projects, called 'South10', 'Central7' and 'North16'. The numbers indicate the distance of the project in miles, so 33 miles or 53 kilometers in total.
> 
> The plan is roughly the same for each segment, construct one tolled express lane in each direction. This would result in one of the longest express lanes in the country.
> 
> Construction is scheduled to begin in 2020. The overall cost is estimated at $ 1.3-1.4 billion, or over $ 1.5 billion if 'Central7' would be constructed below grade.


I don't think one express lane in each direction will make that much of a difference. I drove there a 2 years ago and it did feel damn busy.

But it applies to I-35 all the way from San Antonio to Austin. It still looks and feels like a "rural" freeway but now the whole area is becoming one long chain of suburbs, with corresponding heavy traffic.

But at least they now have the nice and empty tolled Hwy 130 as "some" alternative.


----------



## sonysnob

In my opinion, they need to start introducing some non-tolled freeway capacity in the Austin metro. I actually don't mind toll freeways in urban settings, but I think Austin has gone overboard.


----------



## zaphod

I always thought it was the closely spaced exits in downtown Austin that create a lot of merging activity and also back up slow moving traffic onto the main road.

Express lanes sound like just another toll road, get people to pay to bypass a bad highway configuration instead of just fixing right the first time for everyone. Typical. It's not like the project isn't costing taxpayers billions already /s

I wish 35 in central Austin was like Central Expressway in Dallas around Haskell. There's space between the feeders for a trenched freeway with an extra lane. That extra lane would support 2-lane exits onto Cesar Chavez and Riverside, and those intersections would be widened with extra turn lanes from 3 to 5 (2 left, 2 straight, 1 right) as they could be cantilevered over the trenched road. 

That way more traffic can immediately exit and you could dump the extra lane instead of merging it on either end. Exiting cars can jockey for their lanes sooner(going right, left, straight?) and stopped cars at the lights will spread out horizontally(across more lanes) instead of vertically(down the ramp and onto the freeway).

Another thing that opens up possibilities is how the Plaza Satillo plan will restore the street grid across the railroad tracks in the neighborhood to the east of downtown and restore north-south movement. So feeder roads wouldn't need to support local traffic anymore. Do we need them at all? With them and the u-turn at the railroad tracks gone more options and geometry for widening the road is freed up. There could be one high capacity exit for East 7th and those other city streets could cross directly. That would help knit the area together and set the stage for something like a deck park if you went below grade.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 265, Kentucky-Indiana*

The East End Crossing of Interstate 265 at Louisville, Kentucky.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-35 Lenexa, Kansas*

A new diverging diamond interchange (DDI) will open soon at the I-35 / 95th Street interchange in Lenexa, Kansas (a suburb of Kansas City).


----------



## Joshua Dodd

That's sexy


----------



## Blackraven

ChrisZwolle said:


> A new diverging diamond interchange (DDI) will open soon at the I-35 / 95th Street interchange in Lenexa, Kansas (a suburb of Kansas City).


Must be one of the few places in America where you can find a roundabout/traffic circle


----------



## 00Zy99

Blackraven said:


> Must be one of the few places in America where you can find a roundabout/traffic circle


Rotaries? They're more common then you think.


----------



## SounderBruce

Looking through some old unpublished photos makes me really miss the rainy season:


Rainy traffic on I-5 by SounderBruce, on Flickr


----------



## Stuck in Bama

Renderings of ALDOT's I-20/59 bridge replacement in downtown Birmingham. 

http://www.5920bridge.com/the-project/visual-gallery/


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Blackraven said:


> Must be one of the few places in America where you can find a roundabout/traffic circle


It depends on the area, but they're quite common in some places. this website estimates there are 5,000 modern roundabouts in the U.S., with 'hundreds more constructed each year'.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

Blackraven said:


> Must be one of the few places in America where you can find a roundabout/traffic circle


They're all over Fort Worth, actually, and are common centerpieces in some rural Texas town squares.


----------



## Buffaboy

They're building a 7th one in my town.


----------



## Blackraven

Oh I see.

There used to be a notion that when most Americans encounter roundabouts/rotaries/traffic circles, they either:
-hated them
-get confused

http://www.citylab.com/commute/2016/03/america-traffic-roundabouts-street-map/408598/

But I guess now that more of these circles are being built, I guess more and more drivers get used to them...........as well as the education, knowledge and skills are being passed on to more American drivers and now they know what to do when they encounter 'the circle'.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

yup. Same thing in Canada, they essentially didn't exist until 10 years ago or so. Slowly becoming more common, but its taking time. More and more people are starting to understand them.

The one big issue is that absolutely nobody signals their intention to exit the roundabout, they just leave. its a minor issue as you don't know if the person is exiting where you are entering or not, meaning you are unsure of whether you can enter the roundabout.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 840, Tennessee*

*Tennessee Adds New 77 Miles of Highway to Interstate System*

_State Route 840 Now Designated as Interstate 840_

The Tennessee Department of Transportation has received approval from the Federal Highway Administration to designate State Route 840 as Interstate 840. The change was requested to encourage more economic growth along the corridor and more traffic diversion around Middle Tennessee’s urban core.

The primary purpose of SR 840 when it was initiated in 1986 was to promote economic development by improving access to the many communities located along the route. Since then, more than 20 major industrial sites have opened directly adjacent to SR 840. Having an interstate designation could encourage more industries to consider locating in Middle Tennessee, which increases employment opportunities for the state.

Interstates also provide a level of expectation and confidence for drivers. Motorists can maintain a higher speed and avoid congestion that may be found on state routes. TDOT anticipates the interstate designation will encourage passenger and freight traffic moving through the state to take the route, which will help to reduce congestion in Nashville and surrounding areas.

TDOT will begin installing I-840 signage next week, and expects the work to be complete late this year. The cost to replace signs on state routes and interstates is $230,000.

The 840 corridor was completed in 2012, providing access to Interstate 40 west and east of Nashville, along with connections to Interstates 24 and 65. It travels through Dickson, Hickman, Williamson, and Wilson Counties.​
Press release: https://tn.gov/tdot/news/44772


----------



## TrueBulgarian

Innsertnamehere said:


> The one big issue is that absolutely nobody signals their intention to exit the roundabout, they just leave. its a minor issue as you don't know if the person is exiting where you are entering or not, meaning you are unsure of whether you can enter the roundabout.


From my limited driving experience in the US, I've also noticed that most drivers fail to choose the proper lane before entering the roundabout and while being in it. There's certainly a need for more of these:


----------



## browntown

ChrisZwolle said:


> The median is not as wide along most of I-66 east of Gainesville. Although you can build a double-track light rail in a median as narrow as 30 - 35 ft (see I-225 in suburban Denver).


The real problem isn't even this part of the Interstate, it's further East where there is no grassy median at all. This is WAAY out past the last I-66 metro station. I don't think heavy rail makes any sense so far out into the suburbs. A commuter rail line maybe, but there isn't sufficient density for Metro and the ride would be an hour long.


----------



## 00Zy99

Metro is already part-commuter rail. Hour-long rides are not unheard of on it or BART. And yes, they are indeed planning to extend the Orange line out to Gainesville.


----------



## Professor L Gee

00Zy99 said:


> Metro is already part-commuter rail. Hour-long rides are not unheard of on it or BART. *And yes, they are indeed planning to extend the Orange line out to Gainesville.*


https://transform66wisely.org/2015/...rs-orange-line-extension-is-not-in-the-cards/

They're not even planning to extend the line to Centreville within the next 25 years, and that's a _much _more logical extension than Gainesville.

So unless you want to drive to Manassas and take VRE, or you want to drive to Reston and take the Silver Line, 66 is it for that part of the area.


----------



## 00Zy99

Well, that's news to me. It was on the long-range planning boards before, though.


----------



## Professor L Gee

Everything transportation-related is long-range in Virginia. :soapbox:


----------



## geogregor

keokiracer said:


> Diverging diamond interchanges that is
> There are couple in Europe, but they're way more common in the US.


Where in Europe? I didn't know we have any.


----------



## keokiracer

geogregor said:


> Where in Europe? I didn't know we have any.


There are 3 in France and one is being built in Denmark

France:
https://www.google.nl/maps/@48.832012,2.152526,764m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
https://www.google.nl/maps/@50.544853,3.05635,369m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
https://www.google.nl/maps/@48.830559,2.4931255,382m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

Denmark (u/c) :
https://www.google.nl/maps/@55.3611586,10.3468844,773m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1

(Thanks to https://www.wegenwiki.nl/DDI )


----------



## Joshua Dodd

Horseshoe Project Update


----------



## SounderBruce

A few nighttime shots from 76 stories above Seattle:


I-5 south of Yesler Way at night by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I-5 at I-90, Seattle by SounderBruce, on Flickr


Bertha site at night by SounderBruce, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

Stickel Lift Bridge over the Passaic River in Newark,NJ


hosted on smugmug


----------



## Nexis

Goethals Bridge


Goethals Bridge by Doug Ensel, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

Above the Van Wyck Expressway


hosted on smugmug


----------



## Joshua Dodd

Horseshoe Project update


----------



## siamu maharaj

Nexis said:


> Above the Van Wyck Expressway
> 
> 
> hosted on smugmug


Is that a subway line?


----------



## Luki_SL

^^Yes, it`s subway line. It serves E and F line.


----------



## Moth27

No, it's the AirTrain that runs between JFK Airport and Jamaica Station (LIRR and E, J, Z subways)


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-95 Fredericksburg, Virginia*

undated and 2016

64-355 by Virginia Department of Transportation, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-635 Dallas, Texas*

*TxDOT to Open I-635 Texpress Lanes on October 1st *

TxDOT will begin tolling 9.3 miles of HOV/Express Lanes, a form of TEXpress Lanes, on Interstate 635 (I-635) from Greenville Avenue to I-30 in Dallas County on Saturday, Oct. 1st at 8 am. 

The I-635 TEXpress Lanes feature one lane in each direction and a total of four entrance ramps and four exit ramps. The lanes will operate 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

The HOV lanes on I-635 were transitioned into TEXpress Lanes as part of a regional congestion relief strategy that maximizes their use. When the I-635 TEXpress Lanes open, HOV and motorcycle drivers, with a valid toll tag, who register and activate their HOV status through the Drive On TEXpress website or app, will be able to use the lanes at no cost. I-635 from Greenville Avenue to I-30 will be the only segment of TEXpress Lanes that have a zero toll rate, 24 hours a day/seven days a week, for registered/activated HOV drivers. Single-occupant vehicles and vehicles without a toll tag will be able to use them for a toll. The TEXpress Lanes are expected to carry nearly 18,000 vehicles a day, almost double the traffic they carried as HOV-only lanes.

The $6.7 million, 9.3-mile, I-635 TEXpress Lanes project began construction in 2015 from just east of US 75 to I-30 in Dallas County.​
Press release: http://txdot.gov/inside-txdot/media-center/local-news/dallas/111-2016.html

This connects to the express lanes on the north side of Dallas that opened in 2015. The extension to I-30 is a conversion of the existing HOV lanes, they added no additional capacity.

Map:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-75 Dayton, Ohio*

The 10 year, $ 300 million reconstruction of I-75 through Dayton, Ohio was completed last month, a full year ahead of schedule. 

They completely rebuilt I-75 through Dayton, replacing basically all bridges and structures, realigning the freeway and remove left on- and off ramps.

Ohio ranks #9 as the most cost-effective state with highway operations and construction in the 22nd Annual Highway Report, ranking significantly higher than most neighboring states (#14 Kentucky, #25 West Virginia, #31 Michigan, #36 Indiana, #39 Pennsylvania)


----------



## sonysnob

I-95 Baltimore, MD:


----------



## siamu maharaj

sonysnob said:


> I agree with the spirit of this post.
> 
> There is no question that newer designs are better from virtually every perspective, but there is something to be said about the vintage interstate era.
> 
> Michigan built a significant portion of its freeway network early, and in some cases in advance of the interstate age. While some of these designs (such as I-94 through Downtown Detroit) are unquestionably dated, some of them are really interesting from a historical perspective.


As a NYer, you are lucky enough to drive on old-style interstates. I absolutely loved it!


----------



## Kanadzie

SounderBruce said:


> Preserving it for the sake of aesthetics is massively worse than rebuilding it to modern safety standards. Not enough shoulder space on both sides to clear accidents/get emergency vehicles there in time. Ramps are too tight. Not enough lighting under the bridges. I could go on and on.


Sure, but these issues are only important if the traffic density is very high, which I don't think is an issue on this road, hardly anyone in the pictures....
Roads through Detroit metro have much more, but get more attention from MDOT too...


----------



## SounderBruce

Kanadzie said:


> Sure, but these issues are only important if the traffic density is very high, which I don't think is an issue on this road, hardly anyone in the pictures....
> Roads through Detroit metro have much more, but get more attention from MDOT too...


Even a low-density road can see an accident totally block it, making a shoulder a very nice thing to have.

And the pictures could have been taken at a low-intensity time (off-peak or weekend). I can make I-5 through Seattle look empty, but that doesn't change that it is congested at peak times.


----------



## sonysnob

The I-196 pictures were taken just after lunchtime on a Monday afternoon, in Early August, 2015.

I-196 certainly does get a lot busier than this, but it's not a particularly busy roadway (by big city standards at least) either.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

Dallas Horseshoe Project update for October


----------



## Nexis

Westbound New Jersey Turnpike Extension in Jersey City


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 25, New Mexico*

They opened a diverging diamond interchange in Santa Fe, New Mexico recently. It's located at Exit 278 of I-25, and is the first DDI in the state.










http://krqe.com/2016/10/31/unique-i-25-interchange-now-open-for-santa-fe-drivers/


----------



## [atomic]

why not go for 2 large (turbo)roundabouts when there's that much space available for use? wouldn't have to use any traffic lights then. or are DDIs that much better when it comes to throughput?


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

Double roundabout interchanges are very common in the UK and other European countries, they're called dumbbells. It's considered a relatively cheap and low capacity design (for a gsj) - in the UK a two-bridge roundabout would be preferred at higher volume sites. I imagine a DDI would have significantly more capacity.


----------



## Tommy Boy

When will the American people LEARN to drive in a roundabout. This things DDI is just stupid traffic solutions. Build roundabouts and do it NOW. OBEY me and do it just do it You should learn and look at Europe because we know best when it comes to these things


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## VoltAmps

No one wants to drive around on a round about when you have a large amount of space for nice gradual turns like flyovers 

Europe is a continent, not a country. Highways vary from one country to the next, and overall are a joke


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They actually demolished a flyover for this DDI.


----------



## 00Zy99

Guess they wanted to reduce maintenance costs?


----------



## Koesj

VoltAmps said:


> Europe is a continent, not a country. Highways vary from one country to the next, and overall are a joke


And a mess? :lol:

With what little I've seen there's much to complain about in certain US States as well.


----------



## 00Zy99

Isn't there supposed to be a third signature bridge in the Dallas project? What is that one going to be?


----------



## sonysnob

New video of some suburban freeway glory in LA.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

00Zy99 said:


> Isn't there supposed to be a third signature bridge in the Dallas project? What is that one going to be?


There was going to be. Was. 
All the signature bridges are now built. 
Once all bridge work is completed for 30 and 35, you will see the Trinity bottoms transform to this, which is why the signature bridges were built in the first place:


----------



## Nexis

Tappan Zee Bridge construction taken on 11/1/16


----------



## Nexis

*Newburgh-Beacon Bridge *


----------



## 00Zy99

Joshua Dodd said:


> There was going to be. Was.
> All the signature bridges are now built.
> Once all bridge work is completed for 30 and 35, you will see the Trinity bottoms transform to this, which is why the signature bridges were built in the first place:


Where was the third one going to be? Are there any pictures of it?

And what is that big grey stripe going under the bridges (and seemingly through a tunnel?) along the river on the far bank?

Also, why does the concrete arch bridge end in the middle of a channel in the image when both ends are on dry land in reality?


----------



## geogregor

VoltAmps said:


> Do you not see the houses right there? And all you can say about the images is "weird interchange". This project is beautiful. The way they build transportation infrastructure in the US is just on another level compared to Canada. Beautiful highway, beautiful bridge


Don't be too bombastic. This is nice project but nothing too spectacular. Bridge is OK, but not particularly unique. 

And Kanadzie comment wasn't really negative, he just voiced his surprise by unusual layout of the junction. 

BTW, infrastructure in the US and in Canada is quite comparable, at least when one is looking as an outsider from across the pond.


----------



## browntown

VoltAmps said:


> Do you not see the houses right there? And all you can say about the images is "weird interchange". This project is beautiful. The way they build transportation infrastructure in the US is just on another level compared to Canada. Beautiful highway, beautiful bridge


They should have just cut through the hill, but some rich NIMBY forced them to tunnel under. Hopefully these are the sort of idiot regulations Trump will do away with to make infrastructure much cheaper.


----------



## 00Zy99

There was critical habitat involved, and the neighbors understandably have the right to be discomfited as little as possible given the already massive disturbance. This is true no matter the income level of the residents is.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

Jschmuck said:


> So that the ramps meet at one lighted intersection with the crossroad, instead of two intersections.


That's actually a brilliant idea


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

browntown said:


> They should have just cut through the hill, but some rich NIMBY forced them to tunnel under. Hopefully these are the sort of idiot regulations Trump will do away with to make infrastructure much cheaper.


It's America, the wealthy will always win no matter the expense. Regulations didn't force them to build a tunnel, a handful of upper middle class/wealthy people did.


----------



## VoltAmps

Italy builds tunnels like it's going out of style and everyone comments on how cool it is. But when it's done in the US suddenly it's pointless and shouldn't be done. This place is hilarious


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Louisville, Kentucky*

The reconstructed I-64 / I-65 interchange in Louisville, Kentucky.


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

VoltAmps said:


> Italy builds tunnels like it's going out of style and everyone comments on how cool it is. But when it's done in the US suddenly it's pointless and shouldn't be done.


Probably because Italy is building them to get through mountains rather than to placate NIMBYs.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 405, California*

*OCTA Awards $1.2 Billion Contract for I-405 Project*

*The Orange County Transportation Authority’s board of directors today selected OC 405 Partners to design and construct the I-405 Improvement Project, a major step in the agency’s effort to speed up travel times for roughly 370,000 daily drivers between Costa Mesa and the Los Angeles County line. *

The project, set to begin construction next year, includes adding one regular lane in each direction – as promised in Measure M, Orange County’s half-cent sales tax for transportation improvements – and building the 405 Express Lanes in the center of the freeway. 

The total I-405 Improvement Project cost is $1.9 billion and will be funded with a combination of local, state and federal funds. OCTA is currently pursuing a federal TIFIA loan to fund a significant portion of the project.

The 405 Express Lanes portion of the project is being modeled after the successful 91 Express Lanes, owned and operated by OCTA. With the 405 Express Lanes, solo drivers will have the choice to pay a toll to speed up their commute. Carpools of two or more people can use the 405 Express Lanes for free for the first 3 ½ years after opening. Cars with three or more people will use the express lanes for free at all times.​
Full press release: https://www.octa.net/News/Freeways/OCTA-Awards-$1-2-Billion-Contract-for-I-405-Project/

This is a huge project, one of the largest freeway projects in the Greater Los Angeles area.

I-405 will be expanded to a 'typical section' of 14 lanes, with 5 general purpose and 2 express lanes each way. 

The current freeway has 10 lanes, 4 GP and 1 HOV. The HOV lane will be incorporated into the express lane. The project is very similar to the SR-91 Riverside Freeway, which also has 5 GP and 2 EL.

Project map:


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

Isn't the 405 already 14 lanes at Seal Beach? I believe this short section between the interchanges for the 22 is the busiest freeway in the US so I wouldn't be surprised if the extra six lanes are added onto that...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-405 was recently expanded to 16 lanes at Seal Beach. They added a second HOV lane in each direction. I'm not entirely sure if they want to expand it further. The rest of the 405 will have its HOV lane converted to an express lane. 

It's already a massive freeway at that point, with 8 lanes each way. But it's also the busiest stretch of road in the United States. The most recent traffic count data from 2014 shows 377,000 vehicles per day (peak month volumes up to 385,000 vehicles per day).


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

^^Exactly that stretch is seriously busy and can be a nightmare during rush hour. If only Seattle would build our I-405 properly like the one in Orange County is. They were more than happy to build express toll lanes though.



VoltAmps said:


> Italy builds tunnels like it's going out of style and everyone comments on how cool it is. But when it's done in the US suddenly it's pointless and shouldn't be done. This place is hilarious


I don't think anyone is arguing against tunnels. I think the point was that millions of dollars extra were spent to satisfy a small group of well off people. Italy is a mountainous country, however Kentucky only has some rolling hills for the most part.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-410, San Antonio, Texas*

TxDOT posted an announcement for an open house for a significant expansion project of I-410 in western and southwestern San Antonio. A 16 mile stretch of freeway will be upgraded, with direct connectors replacing the cloverleafs at I-35 and US 90, in addition to SH 151 which is already under construction.

The proposed I-410SW Project includes the following transportation improvements:

* upgrading ramps and direct connectors at the I-410/US 90 and I-410/I-35 interchanges
* constructing additional travel lanes and widening existing travel lanes
* constructing new bridges
* widening existing frontage roads
* providing bike and pedestrian accommodations​
The present-day I-410 is a four-to-six-lane freeway with frontage roads. The southern half of the project is mostly a four-lane freeway.


----------



## Exethalion

I-405 is nuts as it is. Several improvements have kept it from running to a 24/7 standstill like the Sepulveda pass widening and Wilshire Blvd interchange. But I still think its main failing is that there are too many exits too close to each other, resulting in lots of weaving across lanes. The 405/101 interchange is also in dire need of upgrading, some of the turns have a 20 mph speed limit.


----------



## LAYiddo

ChrisZwolle said:


> *OCTA Awards $1.2 Billion Contract for I-405 Project*
> 
> *The Orange County Transportation Authority’s board of directors today selected OC 405 Partners to design and construct the I-405 Improvement Project, a major step in the agency’s effort to speed up travel times for roughly 370,000 daily drivers between Costa Mesa and the Los Angeles County line. *
> 
> The project, set to begin construction next year, includes adding one regular lane in each direction – as promised in Measure M, Orange County’s half-cent sales tax for transportation improvements – and building the 405 Express Lanes in the center of the freeway.
> 
> The total I-405 Improvement Project cost is $1.9 billion and will be funded with a combination of local, state and federal funds. OCTA is currently pursuing a federal TIFIA loan to fund a significant portion of the project.
> 
> The 405 Express Lanes portion of the project is being modeled after the successful 91 Express Lanes, owned and operated by OCTA. With the 405 Express Lanes, solo drivers will have the choice to pay a toll to speed up their commute. Carpools of two or more people can use the 405 Express Lanes for free for the first 3 ½ years after opening. Cars with three or more people will use the express lanes for free at all times.​
> Full press release: https://www.octa.net/News/Freeways/OCTA-Awards-$1-2-Billion-Contract-for-I-405-Project/
> 
> This is a huge project, one of the largest freeway projects in the Greater Los Angeles area.
> 
> I-405 will be expanded to a 'typical section' of 14 lanes, with 5 general purpose and 2 express lanes each way.
> 
> The current freeway has 10 lanes, 4 GP and 1 HOV. The HOV lane will be incorporated into the express lane. The project is very similar to the SR-91 Riverside Freeway, which also has 5 GP and 2 EL.
> 
> Project map:
> ^^


Hopefully they'll do a better job than that disaster of a project widening the 405 through the Sepulveda Pass. I lived through virtually every day of that mess.


----------



## sonysnob

Some photos of Interstate 35 through Austin:























































Larger versions can be found here:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/TX/I/35/index.html


----------



## sonysnob

Some photos of Interstate 820 in Texas, just north of Fort Worth. In recent years, this freeway has been reconstructed with express toll lanes in the median of an otherwise four lane freeway:


















































































For more photos and to access the larger versions of these photos, click below:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/TX/I/820/index.html


----------



## Singidunum




----------



## Joshua Dodd

Dallas Horsehoe Project November update:

All bridge work should be done by March of 2017

http://dallashorseshoe.com/wp-content/gallery/aerial-photos-nov-2016/RGL_6841JPG.jpg

http://dallashorseshoe.com/wp-content/gallery/aerial-photos-nov-2016/RGL_6777JPG.jpg

http://dallashorseshoe.com/wp-content/gallery/aerial-photos-nov-2016/RGL_6764JPG.jpg

http://dallashorseshoe.com/wp-content/gallery/aerial-photos-nov-2016/RGL_6990JPG.jpg

http://dallashorseshoe.com/wp-content/gallery/aerial-photos-nov-2016/RGL_6937JPG.jpg

http://dallashorseshoe.com/wp-content/gallery/aerial-photos-nov-2016/RGL_6921JPG.jpg

http://dallashorseshoe.com/wp-content/gallery/aerial-photos-nov-2016/RGL_6917JPG.jpg

http://dallashorseshoe.com/wp-content/gallery/aerial-photos-nov-2016/RGL_6903JPG.jpg

http://dallashorseshoe.com/wp-content/gallery/aerial-photos-nov-2016/RGL_6694JPG.jpg

http://dallashorseshoe.com/wp-content/gallery/aerial-photos-nov-2016/RGL_6736JPG.jpg


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Great photos but.... 3600 px wide is WAYYY to large.


----------



## SpiderBHZ




----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Oklahoma*

The Oklahoma Turnpike Authority is working towards all-electronic tolling. They launched a new service called 'PlatePay' on a Creek Turnpike ramp near Tulsa. It is an addition to the PikePass transponder. This means these ramps will go entirely cashless, but users of 'PlatePay' pay a higher toll rate than users with a PikePass. (the only current location charges more than double the PikePass rate).

http://www.platepay.com/


----------



## Jschmuck

Wisdot is ambitiously studying a long-range plan with 5 alternatives of I-39/90/94; 4 of which include a new freeway, in the Madison, WI area: (don't know how to post pdf image)

First link are all 5 alternatives combined;
http://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/sw/399094/corridoraltscombined.pdf

website;
http://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/399094/default.aspx

If alternative A were to be implemented, the new alignment could be named I-94, thus shortening the triple concurrency of I-39/90/94 between Madison and Portage.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interesting.

Here's a map of the potential corridors:









On first sight, a new parallel freeway seems overkill. Although extensive reconstruction of an existing Interstate Highway may be pricey. Though if bridges need replacement anyway, the additional cost of expansion is not that great - given the fact that this stretch of I-39/90/94 doesn't have any major bridges or tunnels that would be prohibitively expensive to expand.

Judging by satellite imagery, there is a left shoulder in both directions along the entire corridor. It could be a cheap widening if they reconstruct the existing pavement and turn the left shoulder into a driving lane. If it is too narrow, they could shift the lanes to the outside, expanding the right shoulder if needed. In this scenario, bridges would only need to be replaced if the conditions require it.

The Roadrunner website from WISDOT shows that this stretch of freeway carries mostly between 55,000 and 67,000 vehicles per day on six lanes. The eight lane segment near Madison carries 90,000 vehicles per day. 

Is traffic growth so strong? There are plenty of freeways with these volumes that have only four lanes. Judging by current traffic volume and lane count, it is quite adequate.


----------



## Jschmuck

Thanks Chris!



> On first sight, a new parallel freeway seems overkill


I basically agree.

I can shed some light on this particular stretch as I am from and live in WI, and I drove an 18-wheeler for over 10 years and have traveled this stretch many times in truck and personal vehicle.

This stretch gets busy during summer with the WI Dells destination and others. It strongly seems 6-lanes is adequate, even for the future. However, this stretch sees a lot of through traffic, I would say more so than the Milwaukee area. And including growth in through traffic, it is hard for me to say what should happen then as I am certainly not an expert in traffic management (though that area intrigues me). Then there is the fast growth of the Madison area. Madison is growing fast (for Midwest means), but a lot is smart growth centered more around bicycling and mass transit. 

But then does an eastern bypass of Sun Prairie and De Forest (ultimately a bypass of the entire metro) make sense for I-94? I don't know. Because those areas are growing as well.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Michigan speed limits*

*Gov. Rick Snyder signs legislation to raise speed limits on designated roadways following safety studies *

Speed limits on certain Michigan roadways may increase after studies are conducted to ensure safety under legislation signed today by Gov. Rick Snyder.

HBs 4423-4427, sponsored by state Reps. Bradford Jacobsen, Rick Outman, John Kivela and Charles Smiley, respectively, require the Michigan Department of Transportation to allow the speed limit to be raised up to *75 mph on at least 600 miles of freeways* and up to *65 mph on at least 900 miles of non-freeway “M” roads*. The increases are allowed only if safety and engineering studies show the 85th percentile of speeds currently driven on those roads allow for it. The bills also raise the maximum speed limit for trucks from 60 to 65 mph​
Press release: http://www.michigan.gov/snyder/0,4668,7-277--401466--,00.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 465, Indianapolis*

A semi truck has struck the Rockville Road / US 36 overpass at Interstate 465. According to some Twitter reports, a part of the bridge will be demolished.

This bridge was built around 2010 when the interchange was reconstructed from a cloverleaf to a parclo.


----------



## zaphod

I didn't know there was that much traffic congestion on the north side of Madison. Is the area really growing that fast?

I have family members in Sun Prairie, though I've only visited them there exactly once  Madison is a nice small city though.


----------



## Jschmuck

zaphod said:


> I didn't know there was that much traffic congestion on the north side of Madison. Is the area really growing that fast?
> 
> I have family members in Sun Prairie, though I've only visited them there exactly once  Madison is a nice small city though.


It is busy, although I'm not sure congested would be the right term, or maybe it is. Although again, it is congested during rush hours and summer travel days (Friday evenings and Sundays) And yes the Madison area is growing that fast (for Midwestern standards). Because this triple concurrency (I-39/90/94) sees as I have mentioned before a lot of through traffic, it seems one of the ultimate intentions of a possible new freeway is to give I-94 through traffic its own route to bypass the area, to ease pressure on I-39/90. (sorry, long run on sentence). By all means I was quite surprised to find such a proposal? No, nothing is proposed yet, call it a vision.

What year did you get to visit said relatives?


----------



## zaphod

2012

Not that long ago, but still I'm sure growth could have changed the character of the area.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 69, Texas*

TxDOT published an environmental assessment of the US 59 upgrade in Wharton County, southwest of Houston. A 40 mile stretch of US 59 will be upgraded to I-69.

http://txdot.gov/inside-txdot/get-involved/about/hearings-meetings/yoakum/020917.html

US 59 is currently a four-lane divided highway with limited frontage roads and mostly at-grade intersections. There are presently 53 median access points, 39 cross-streets and 101 driveways. These will be relocated to the frontage roads.

US 59 will be upgraded to a four lane freeway with two-lane frontage roads on either side. I-69 will get a 75 mph speed limit. 

The area is very rural, only 4% of the land alongside US 59 is currently urbanized. Only six residential displacements are required, one of those has a value of only $ 3,900. Six businesses will be impacted, most of them are gas stations where pumps need to be relocated in orer to maintain their business at that location. Just over 80 jobs are impacted, over half of those are in a restaurant that burned down in 2014. 

No funding has currently been identified for construction, but is expected to be a mix of federal and state funding.


----------



## Suburbanist

I-70 in Denver (east of I-25) will see major reconstruction. CDOT hdecided couple months ago on the most expensive option: replace the elevated viaduct with a trench highway, in part covered by a park









source


----------



## Innsertnamehere

good to finally see Texas seriously start on I-69. It needs a good stretch of upgrades to start making the route feel "real".


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-30 / SH 360, Arlington, Texas*

Construction started in 2016 on the new I-30 / SH 360 interchange in Arlington, Texas. This will be a full stack interchange with 8 direct connectors that replace a trumpet interchange / frontage road intersection. Quite an improvement. There will be two massive stack interchanges within two miles on I-30.


----------



## Bender

Good ol' Six Flags over Texas. I worked there one summer.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

The 30 and 360 intersection has been one of the greatest hindrance to Arlington's growth. Glad they are finally rebuilding it into an actual mix master. This will help ease congestion in this area, and hopefully help spur redevelopment.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-75, Georgia*

The express reversible toll lanes on I-75 south of Atlanta will open to traffic soon.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^ How long is that new I-75 section?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

About 11-12 miles. It runs from McDonough to the I-675 split.


----------



## sonysnob

^ I was surprised when I read this. I was only aware of the I-75 Express Lanes located to the north of Atlanta, not also that they were coming to the south.


----------



## Sic'EmBears

*North Tarrant Express* December update:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-64 / I-264 Norfolk, Virginia*

The I-64 / 264 interchange near Norfolk, Virginia.


I-64/I-264 Ramp Improvements by Virginia Department of Transportation, on Flickr


I-64/I-264 Ramp Improvements by Virginia Department of Transportation, on Flickr


I-64/I-264 Ramp Improvements by Virginia Department of Transportation, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 35E, Texas*

A set of collector lanes open to traffic this weekend on I-35E north of Dallas. They are located on southbound I-35E between the frontage road and main lanes, which means traffic from the Sam Rayburn Tollway to the President George Bush Turnpike doesn't have to merge onto I-35E anymore.


----------



## FM 2258

^^

I like the IH-35Express....clever.


----------



## Sic'EmBears

The DFW Connector successfully improved traffic flow of two overlapping freeways - SH 114 and SH 121. 

The $1.1B project added managed lanes, main lanes, service roads, new fly-over bridges and Texas U-turns. 

Its widest point, at Minters Chapel Rd, contains 24 lanes. 

Via *DFW Freeways*:


----------



## Innsertnamehere

are the 24 lanes actual freeway lanes (and not merge lanes)? If so, it may have surpassed the 401 as the widest globally. Katy freeway has claimed it for a while, but 6 of its 22 lanes are frontage roads which aren't really part of the freeway. The 401 has 18 full freeway lanes.


----------



## sonysnob

The claim that the Katy Freeway is the worlds widest freeway has always really annoyed me for that reason. Traffic signal controlled frontage roads with driveway access really shouldn't be considered freeway lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Belgian Greens attempted to show how a 29 lane freeway is planned in Antwerp


----------



## sonysnob

Some views traveling northerly along I-79 in rural West Virginia:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/WV/I/79/I79_WV_dv_38-25_north_Nov16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/WV/I/79/I79_WV_dv_40-5_north_Nov16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/WV/I/79/I79_WV_dv_46_north_Nov16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/WV/I/79/I79_WV_dv_56-75_north_Nov16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/WV/I/79/I79_WV_dv_57_north_Nov16_24x16.jpg


----------



## Buffaboy

That DFW freeway makes many others in the US look like they come from 3rd world countries.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-80, Nebraska*

A 1 hour straight stretch of Interstate Highway: I-80 between Grand Island and Lincoln, Nebraska.


----------



## siamu maharaj

Innsertnamehere said:


> are the 24 lanes actual freeway lanes (and not merge lanes)? If so, it may have surpassed the 401 as the widest globally. Katy freeway has claimed it for a while, but 6 of its 22 lanes are frontage roads which aren't really part of the freeway. The 401 has 18 full freeway lanes.


401 would still remain the busiest highway in the world though.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

ChrisZwolle said:


> A 1 hour straight stretch of Interstate Highway: I-80 between Grand Island and Lincoln, Nebraska.
> 
> Look at how straight all of the roads are. I bet the perspective from eye level is dizzily expansive.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-278 Goethals Bridge, New York*

The Goethals Bridge replacement project.


----------



## CNGL

ChrisZwolle said:


> A 1 hour straight stretch of Interstate Highway: I-80 between Grand Island and Lincoln, Nebraska.


And I thought the various 10+ mile straights I measured were long. That one is a whooping 126 km long :nuts:.


----------



## sonysnob

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Goethals Bridge replacement project.


It's good to see some real highway projects being undertaken in the New York Region. A lot of their highway network is in shockingly poor condition. 

To their credit, the roads are so busy, they are almost impossible to maintain, but still...


----------



## Innsertnamehere

yup. The infrastructure around New York is all so old it is almost shocking.. everything in that city seems to be at minimum half a century old. And it shows. Good to see some new bridge projects like this. There is a ton of infrastructure spending going on in the NYC metro right now, but it is also such an incredibly expensive environment to build in..

Also, that looks like its going to be a 6 lane bridge with proper shoulders replacing the 4 lane no shoulders existing structure, right?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

North Dakota Highway 46 is often claimed to be the longest straight road in the U.S. at 121 miles (194 km). However it does have several minor curves where it crosses valleys.


----------



## Suburbanist

I only accept claims for straight roads if the follow a great circle (which many of these US ordinance system grids don't), meaning the road is the shortest (geodesical) distance between two points on the earth's surface (different than a straight line in a map)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-5, Seattle*

I-5 in Seattle in the 1970s. Wow the skyline has changed!


----------



## rantanamo

Trust me, we have plenty to catch up on.


----------



## Ingsoc75

Innsertnamehere said:


> ^Its no different than how Ontario dominates the Canada thread. Its where the big and exciting projects are happening.


I only make that comment out of awe of how TX is with it's highway building. I can think of many other places in the US that could learn a thing or two about building their highways.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ it looks like weathering steel, probably they spent lots of money to make it look so bad


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-45 Gulf Freeway, Houston, Texas*

I-45 southbound is closed this weekend from Beltway 8 to the NASA Bypass to create the final lane configuration:

TxDOT is closing the interstate to finish the final lane configurations of the I-45 S Gulf Freeway project from Dixie Farm Rd. to Nasa Bypass.

Once the work is finished, the five southbound main lanes will open. 

The northbound main lanes will remain unaffected by this weekend’s traffic switch and remain at three lanes. A future traffic switch is planned to reconfigure those lanes.

The entire project is scheduled for completion by 2018.​
http://www.khou.com/traffic/i-45-southbound-lanes-will-be-closed-all-weekend/406828965


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-69, Indiana*

*I-69 completion date pushed back *

Officials again have pushed back the completion date of the portion of Interstate 69 between Martinsville and Bloomington.

Work now is scheduled to be finished by May 31, 2018. Previously the project was supposed to be completed by October 2017.​
Full report: http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2017/02/13/-69-completion-date-pushed-back/97850844/


----------



## sonysnob

Interstate 805, San Diego, California:


----------



## Joshua Dodd

Dallas Horseshoe Project update: As a sign of work nearing completion, two ramps along westbound I-30 ("Canyon" area) will be placed in their permanent roadway alignments on the weekend of Feb. 17, 2017. New signage will be installed to designate both of the ramps.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buKkQfUeZOU


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

There are some weirdly duplicated movements at I-70/US 29, with a left turn for I-70 West even though there's an exit for I-70 West a couple of hundred yards back. My best guess is that the left turn is a low budget solution to weaving.


----------



## Professor L Gee

Ryme Intrinseca said:


> There are some weirdly duplicated movements at I-70/US 29, with a left turn for I-70 West even though there's an exit for I-70 West a couple of hundred yards back. My best guess is that the left turn is a low budget solution to weaving.


Your guess is correct. With three major junctions so close to one another on 29, (I-70, US 40, MD 100) plus the impending freeway end, traffic is already ranging from heavy to horrible in that area. From what I've observed, most folks don't seem to know about that left turn exit onto 70 West, but the ones that do are happy to have it.


----------



## Tom 958

Some photos of the I-75 reversible express lanes south of Atlanta, taken on January 29, the weekend it opened. 

Southbound on the general lanes since the reversible roadway is running northbound at 2pm. Hmm. Here we're passing under I-675 southbound with the ramp to 675 northbound beyond.










Southbound entrance to the reversible roadway, with the lanes carefully delineated with distinctive striping. No rat racing here. 










Express lanes entrance, duh. Note the down arrow on the gore sign, like we're in France.










The reversible roadway is adjacent to the southbound legacy roadway everywhere except here, at the bifurcation near Hudson Bridge-Eagles Landing. All of the signs for this exit southbound have a white line between the green and the yellow of the exit only tab. Weird. They were added as part of a project to add the two-dropped-lanes offramp you see here. Must be some horrendous afternoon backups here.










A bit further along, just past Hudson Bridge-Eagles Landing. The median looks a bit ratty, and there's o landscaping as yet.










On the way to the Locust Grove exit to turn around and take the reversible roadway back north, we spotted this stash of signs and decided to investigate. They're at a GDOT maintenance facility, next door to which is a privately owned sign fabricator. Forest Park is about twenty miles from here, but King George Boulevard is near Savannah.










Heading back north. My companion is from Florida and is more used to toll-related VMS's that I am, but neither of us recall seeing a fraction displayed on a VMS.










Or an arrow, either.










This is the wye at the end of the reversible roadway. Merging would never occur here-- unless they ran 75 contraflow northbound for the mother of all hurricanes.










I found the yellow paint markings a bit disconcerting, though they're unambiguously correct.










The first segment of the reversible roadway, to a point well north of the GA 20-81 interchange, is only one lane. WTF?


----------



## Tom 958

The reversible roadway widens to two lanes just south of the access points to and from the 75 mainline north of GA20-81.










The access points. I'm a bit surprised that they weren't staggered somewhat to cut down on the required width.










Direct access point to Jonesboro Road, in addition to the full interchange for general traffic. Note the traffic light-- I guess it's there to fake people into taking that turn slowly enough. I wonder how long it'll be before somebody jumpramps that sucker.










Ramp terminal for the Jonesboro Road access point.










Wooded bifurcation approaching Hudson Bridge-Eagles Landing. According to the project concept report, provision was made to allow for construction of a second express roadway at some future date. However, while the new roadway is adjacent to the southbound roadway everywhere else, it's on the northbound side here to protect the water quality of the stream that flows through that median. Wow. :nuts:


----------



## Tom 958

The entrance from 75 southbound, where we were at the beginning of this series of photos. I haven't figured out the sekrit code that governs how they did those paint markings. 




















We're taking the 675 leg, though I'm curious as to how the merge with 75 will work. It would've been a huge detour to check out both, and probably 675 was more interesting.










Again, that yellow gore. No merge sign this time, though.




















45 mph? Gee, I dunno.










About to enter 675 from the left. We're going uphill, and the taper is very short. Could be hairy with rush hour traffic.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-15 California*

Flash flooding has caused substantial damage to I-15 near Cajon Pass. A fire engine fell over the side.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Boise, Idaho*

I was looking into the construction history of Interstate Highways in Idaho and noticed this largely vacant (?) right-of-way through Boise. It appears as an extension of I-184.

1970s and 1980s state highway maps of Idaho do not indicate a further extension of I-184 through Downtown Boise, nor could I find anything on the internet.

But this 1992 satellite image shows a remarkable almost vacant right-of-way through Downtown Boise. It has been mostly developed since (the Boise-Nampa-Caldwell area has a very high population growth).


----------



## Tom 958




----------



## Luki_SL

Tom 958 said:


> 45 mph? Gee, I dunno.


45° ?  Isn`t it?


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

ChrisZwolle said:


> I was looking into the construction history of Interstate Highways in Idaho and noticed this largely vacant (?) right-of-way through Boise. It appears as an extension of I-184.
> 
> 1970s and 1980s state highway maps of Idaho do not indicate a further extension of I-184 through Downtown Boise, nor could I find anything on the internet.
> 
> But this 1992 satellite image shows a remarkable almost vacant right-of-way through Downtown Boise. It has been mostly developed since (the Boise-Nampa-Caldwell area has a very high population growth).


I'd imagine originally they planned to connect it back to I-84 but those plans were cancelled.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-35 Norman, Oklahoma*

I-35 has been expanded to six lanes through Norman, Oklahoma over the past couple of years. The project is currently still ongoing.

This photo was taken from the Main Street interchange, which was converted from a cloverleaf to a SPUI in 2014.


----------



## Tom 958

Luki_SL said:


> 45° ?  Isn`t it?


Ha, maybe. Usually, advisory speeds for curves are displayed on a square sign separate from the diamond. And... just such a sign is seen at the 4:26 point of the video I posted, with this version following at 4:29.

Georgia does weird, screwy, embarrassing stuff with signs quite frequently. This is mild, really.


----------



## sonysnob

^ That 45mph sign advisory curve sign is a standard Caltrans design. I wonder if the firm that designed the express lanes was based out of California.


----------



## CNGL

ChrisZwolle said:


> The season finale by Freewayjim, I-15 from Primm, Nevada to Barstow, California.
> 
> Brace yourself for some terrible lane discipline :nuts: But the scenery is great. Unusual to see that much traffic through such a long desolate stretch of desert landscape.


Behold Zzyzx Rd roughly halfway through, alphabetically the last road in the World. It sounds extraterrestrial.


----------



## Kanadzie

00Zy99 said:


> As someone who has studied this academically, I can say with confidence that there very much WAS a racial aspect in many cities.


But was it really a race-based issue or just a "let's build a road and the cheapest land corridor is through these neighborhoods" which happened to be mostly black?


----------



## 00Zy99

The latter. Land was designated as being "blighted" if there was an African-American living on the block. No matter what the actual condition of the land or property value was.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

00Zy99 said:


> As someone who has studied this academically, I can say with confidence that there very much WAS a racial aspect in many cities.


I too have studied this academically, and can tell you that the major driving forces were: Deindustrialization and suburbs. This concept of it was all about race is a ridiculous notion. Land became blighted due to people migrating out of the cities, and thus devaluing property, which either ended up becoming abandoned due to no demand for housing or was demolished entirely. Because factories were either outsourced across seas, or relocated to newer failities along the highways outside the cities and around suburbia, businesses and people left the cities. That's why nearly every American city, beside a few, experienced massive population decline. In the 70s alone New York lost 700,000 people. The main cause is deindustrialization. Supply and Demand. A large supply of houses, but a negative demand curve for residences. Before the freeways, American cities were largely populated by blue collar industrial workers. Once the industry left, so went the workers.


----------



## 865335

Joshua Dodd said:


> I too have studied this academically, and can tell you that the major driving forces were: Deindustrialization and suburbs. This concept of it was all about race is a ridiculous notion. Land became blighted due to people migrating out of the cities, and thus devaluing property, which either ended up becoming abandoned due to no demand for housing or was demolished entirely. Because factories were either outsourced across seas, or relocated to newer failities along the highways outside the cities and around suburbia, businesses and people left the cities. That's why nearly every American city, beside a few, experienced massive population decline. In the 70s alone New York lost 700,000 people. The main cause is deindustrialization. Supply and Demand. A large supply of houses, but a negative demand curve for residences. Before the freeways, American cities were largely populated by blue collar industrial workers. Once the industry left, so went the workers.


He didn't say it was a "major force" or "it was all about race"...pay attention. It was a force though, glossing over it won't change that fact.



00Zy99 said:


> As someone who has studied this academically, I can say with confidence that there very much WAS a racial aspect in many cities.


This. There was absolutely was a racial element in the construction of the Interstate System through cities. People get so triggered when race is mentioned, as if they're being attacked. hno:


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

typo86 said:


> This. There was absolutely was a racial element in the construction of the Interstate System through cities. People get so triggered when race is mentioned, as if they're being attacked. hno:


How so? The Interstate System would have happened regardless and it still would have gone through cities. The main reason many highways ended up going through minority neighborhoods was the land having less value and the residents having less political power to fight the construction.


----------



## JohnFlint1985

THIS LOOKS AMAZING!


----------



## 00Zy99

I-275westcoastfl said:


> How so? The Interstate System would have happened regardless and it still would have gone through cities. The main reason many highways ended up going through minority neighborhoods was the land having less value and the residents having less political power to fight the construction.


The land was devalued BECAUSE of their race, for one thing.

Pay attention to who was responsible. Senators like Strom Thurmond and various Dixiecrats wrote in discriminatory policies into virtually every possible act they could.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

00Zy99 said:


> The land was devalued BECAUSE of their race, for one thing.
> 
> Pay attention to who was responsible. Senators like Strom Thurmond and various Dixiecrats wrote in discriminatory policies into virtually every possible act they could.


Right but that had nothing to do with the Interstate system and more so society back in those days.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

typo86 said:


> There was absolutely was a racial element in the construction of the Interstate System through cities. People get so triggered when race is mentioned, as if they're being attacked. hno:


Explain with academic sources exactly how there was a racial motive behind the construction of freeways in cities. Vox and Buzzfeed are not credible academic sources, btw.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

00Zy99 said:


> The land was devalued BECAUSE of their race, for one thing.
> 
> Pay attention to who was responsible. Senators like Strom Thurmond and various Dixiecrats wrote in discriminatory policies into virtually every possible act they could.


So it had nothing to do with the fact that people were moving out of the cities driving down demand, which thus devalued land value?


----------



## sotonsi

00Zy99 said:


> The land was devalued BECAUSE of their race, for one thing.


How could poor African-Americans buy the land in the first place if it wasn't cheap? You've put the cart before the horse there.

There's a problem, that has actually grown since the 60s, that African-Americans and poor people living in cities are very much overlapping groups. 'White flight' wasn't due to race as much as money, but the poor people in cities were mostly non-white and the rich people mostly white.


----------



## fredcalif

sotonsi said:


> How could poor African-Americans buy the land in the first place if it wasn't cheap? You've put the cart before the horse there.
> 
> There's a problem, that has actually grown since the 60s, that African-Americans and poor people living in cities are very much overlapping groups. 'White flight' wasn't due to race as much as money, but the poor people in cities were mostly non-white and the rich people mostly white.


Enough, this is a topic about Highways, not Race
that happened decades ago, America is different now


----------



## SounderBruce

It happened decades ago, but the consequences are still felt today. Many interstates still divide communities of racial minorities in cities across the country, and there's not much that can be done to "heal" the division (park lids and highway removals can't reverse decades of decay). Neighborhoods near freeways are faced with air pollution (linked with dementia and respiratory diseases), concentrated poverty, and lower quality of life.

And even new freeways still chose the past of least resistance, aka the corridor with the poorest residents that can't attend hundreds of public hearings and force politicians to stall or block projects.

As for academic studies of the link between freeway planning and racism, here's a few scholarly works and books on the subject: Racial Bias and Interstate Highway Planning: A
Mixed Methods Approach; The Folklore of the Freeway: Race and Revolt in the Modernist City; The Role of Highways in American Poverty; The Interstates and the Cities: Highways, Housing, and the Freeway Revolt.


----------



## sotonsi

fredcalif said:


> Enough, this is a topic about Highways, not Race


Yes, and if you read the post of mine you quoted, you'll see that that is my point!

It's 00Zy99 and Vox who are trying to make it about race to push an anti-highway agenda.


----------



## NFZANMNIM

In a nation where geographical locations down to several hundred meters (yards, whatevz  ) and preferred modes of transport in the same urban area are correlated with race, highways and any other transportation talk will somehow become racial one time or another.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

fredcalif said:


> Enough, this is a topic about Highways, not Race
> that happened decades ago, America is different now


Bark at the ones doing the race baiting.


----------



## Sic'EmBears

*North Tarrant Express* January update:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-35 Troy, Texas*

Two generations of freeway in Troy, Texas. It is part of a project to expand I-35 to six lanes. The bridge on the left will carry future southbound traffic. The current underpass will be filled in and a second viaduct will be constructed similar to the one on the left.


----------



## Kanadzie

>


this photo excites me


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

The US has more freeway mileage and complex interchanges than the EU, yet the US only has two threads covering it, compared to twenty-odd for the various EU countries. A separate thread for Texas would be a start, maybe also one for each region - Northeast, Midwest, West, South-except-Texas


----------



## NFZANMNIM

^^ Same can be said about China, +twice the population of Europe and 3 times the population of the US


----------



## VoltAmps

NFZANMNIM said:


> ^^ Same can be said about China, +twice the population of Europe and 3 times the population of the US


Yes but we don't have many users from china posting in the highways section and the China thread doesn't get as many updates. I agree we should have more US regional highway threads


----------



## Joshua Dodd

Alright. Being very serious here. All in favor of dividing the USA Interstates thread by region or state say yes or no. 
I will make a new thread for Texas freeway projects if everyone is in favor of this.


----------



## xzmattzx

I don't think a thread just for Texas will be allowed. There used to be a thread just for Ontario, and it was merged or created into the Canadian highways thread. The precedence is that it's divided by country, and types of roads are the subdivisions if needed.

Anyone who wants to talk about Texas highways only should go to this thread here.

If there is demand for further dividing, something that may work out better is splitting the Non-Interstate thread into a Non-Interstate Expressway thread, and then a Surface Road thread.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

Too late. 

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=138872783#post138872783

Let's see if this lasts. If not, we will still be posting Texas updates here, nonetheless.


----------



## jchernin

Joshua Dodd said:


> Alright. Being very serious here. All in favor of dividing the USA Interstates thread by region or state say yes or no.
> I will make a new thread for Texas freeway projects if everyone is in favor of this.


How long did your vote last? xzmattzx posted that it's not allowed like 20 minutes after your vote post!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I'm not a fan of regional threads. Texas obviously has a large volume of projects, but other regions / states not as much, so they can quickly bleed out and become inactive or are only occasionally resurrected. The two U.S. threads are almost always on the first page due to their frequent activity.

Also the Highways & Autobahns forums are highly international with people from all over the world, so they may not be as interested in intricate detail, notice how some people post loads of photos of earthworks, which is not particularly interesting for the international audience.


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

The flipside of 'US threads always on the front page' is that it's almost impossible to find any content that you found interesting, as it will be buried under an avalanche of Texan construction updates. So I think it's worth giving the new thread a chance.


----------



## not_just_a_lurker

Ryme Intrinseca said:


> The US has more freeway mileage (...) than the EU)


Errr, can you provide a source for that? Because it sounds just plain wrong.

Edit: Nvm, in terms of total length, it's true. I was thinking about mileage per area for some reason.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice overpass in Detroit. I-94 and Telegraph Road (US 24).


----------



## sonysnob

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nice overpass in Detroit. I-94 and Telegraph Road (US 24).


This overpass was constructed just before Detroit hosted the super bowl at Ford Field. The architectural elements that link the arches over the carriageways were deliberately designed to look like footballs so the project would serve as a legacy for Super Bowl XL.


----------



## Haljackey

I had no idea it was designed to look like a football until now!

The old interchange there was nuts. It's a large SPUI now.

Telegraph road also has other nice aesthetic features along the road paying homage to Detroit's history.

The blue supports are a nice reference to tell me I'm almost to the airport.

Contrary to the stigma of US airports, Detroit's airport is pretty nice. Denver's is nice too.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

I-35W Fort Worth construction update for February 2017:


----------



## Exethalion

Haljackey said:


> The old interchange there was nuts. It's a large SPUI now.


Indeed it was. What a mess.


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

The old interchange may have been impractical with those offside entries/exits but it was still beautiful! And rare - I think the only current US interchange in this 'double trumpet' design is on the Carolina Bays Parkway. In fact, worldwide there may only be three, the others being in Gothenburg and Astana.


----------



## sonysnob

When I was a kid, I remember getting a good map of Detroit (this was before the days of google maps) and being amazed at the old interchange. I thought it was a perfect interchange.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There used to be two of those interchanges along the western ring road of Puebla, Mexico, but they have been converted into regular interchanges in 2015.


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

Thanks for that. Looks like there were actually three, with the northern pair only rebuilt as double trumpets around 2006.

All were then upgraded simultaneously to stacked roundabouts, which is grist for my mill.


----------



## Haljackey

A while back I made an interchange in SimCity 4 based on the Carolina Bays Parkway / US 501 interchange. Check it out if interested:

Full size:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7538/15645398534_bb423ab5b9_o.png










Video:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-20, Atlanta, GA*

A major buckle has closed I-20 westbound 'indefinitely' near Gresham Road in Atlanta, due to a gas leak.

I-20 is one of the two major detour routes for the collapsed bridge of I-85.


----------



## jchernin

Atlanta can't catch a break!


----------



## [atomic]

^^ Is ATL starting to run out of Highways? :lol:


----------



## 00Zy99

[atomic] said:


> ^^ Is ATL starting to run out of Highways? :lol:


...actually, yes. There is only one more highway in that corridor, apparently.

Maybe they should look at a temporary commuter rail line for help? Of course, if it works, it can be permanent.


----------



## LegendMeadow

00Zy99 said:


> ...actually, yes. There is only one more highway in that corridor, apparently.
> 
> Maybe they should look at a temporary commuter rail line for help? Of course, if it works, it can be permanent.


This must be a boon for MARTA. I wonder how much revenue the city has, and will continue to collect from this. Not saying it's a good thing, of course. The freeway shutdowns have most likely been bad for the region's GDP.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-55, Chicago, IL*

The I-55 / Lake Shore Drive interchange replacement in Chicago.


I-55/Lake Shore Drive Project by Illinois Department of Transportation, on Flickr


I-55/Lake Shore Drive Project by Illinois Department of Transportation, on Flickr


----------



## Kanadzie

LegendMeadow said:


> This must be a boon for MARTA. I wonder how much revenue the city has, and will continue to collect from this. Not saying it's a good thing, of course. The freeway shutdowns have most likely been bad for the region's GDP.


probably negative if they are boosting service with expensive overtime, rented vehicles, emergency repairs etc etc


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 69*

Possible alternatives for the I-69 Ohio River crossing at Evansville, Indiana.


----------



## sonysnob

Some photos of the new 91 Express Lanes in Riverside County California from the perspective of I-15 North:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/15/I15_CA_dv_93-5_north_Apr17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/15/I15_CA_dv_94_north_Apr17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/15/I15_CA_dv_94-75_north_Apr17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/15/I15_CA_dv_94-8_north_Apr17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/15/I15_CA_dv_94-9_north_Apr17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/15/I15_CA_dv_94-95_north_Apr17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/15/I15_CA_cl_95_north_Apr17_24x16.jpg










http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/15/I15_CA_cl_95_C_North_Apr17_24x16.jpg








http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/15/I15_CA_dv_95-75_north_Apr17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/15/I15_CA_dv_95-9_north_Apr17_24x16.jpg


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-71 Jeremiah Morrow Bridge, Ohio*

The old span of the Jeremiah Morrow Bridge in Ohio was demolished today using explosives. It is the tallest bridge in Ohio and part of I-71 between Cincinnati and Columbus. 

The implosion did not go entirely as planned, one segment did not go down, a second attempt later today brought that section down as well.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-10 Houston*

There are 33 lanes planned on I-10 / I-45 in Downtown Houston. This is part of the $ 7 billion Downtown Freeways reconstruction and I-45 express lanes.










More schematics can be found here: http://www.ih45northandmore.com/draft_eis.aspx


----------



## Buffaboy

33 lanes??? WTF! That's crazy.

The widest section of highway near me is 10 lanes including exit lanes, and that's only for a mile.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They plan to remove I-45 around Downtown. As a compensation, I-10 and I-69 will be expanded. I-69 will be constructed in a 21 lane tunnel. I-45 will get express lanes all the way to Beltway 8 in North Houston.

I must say $ 6 - 7 billion doesn't sound particularly expensive for such a large urban project. I think this exceeds Boston's _Big Dig_ in scope.


----------



## Luki_SL

ChrisZwolle said:


> I-69 will be constructed in a 21 lane tunnel. Houston.


A 21 lane tunnel :nuts:? Is there any wider tunnel ?


----------



## Joshua Dodd

In Dallas, they are planning on a project to relocate I-30 entirely. By doing so, 345 and 45 would be demolished and 45 would tie into 30 as would 175.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

The Dallas Horseshoe Project is pretty much complete now with minor road work. All bridges are in operation. Traffic has vastly improved as a result and it looks great, especially lit up at night.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

> I-69 will be constructed in a 21 lane tunnel. I-45 will get express lanes all the way to Beltway 8 in North Houston.


Holy fuggiddy fuggiddy fuuuuuuuuugg


----------



## Joshua Dodd

Construction work has already started and is in progress to turn 175 in the center of Dallas into a city roadway by tying it into 45 toward the Trinity, which is in preperation for the overall realignment of I-30.










https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyontZA_0jg&ytbChannel=HalffAssoc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY7Crsm-jZE&ytbChannel=HalffAssoc


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

ChrisZwolle said:


> They plan to remove I-45 around Downtown. As a compensation, I-10 and I-69 will be expanded. I-69 will be constructed in a 21 lane tunnel. I-45 will get express lanes all the way to Beltway 8 in North Houston.
> 
> I must say $ 6 - 7 billion doesn't sound particularly expensive for such a large urban project. I think this exceeds Boston's _Big Dig_ in scope.


$2.8bn at 1982 prices probably sounded quite reasonable for the Big Dig. As it happens, converted to 2017 prices that $2.8bn comes to $7bn. And if you apply the Big Dig's 190% cost overrun to the Texan scheme (admittedly unlikely) you get a less reasonable sounding $20bn...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-35E / US 67 Southern Gateway, Dallas, TX*

The winner of the Southern Gateway segment 1 & 2A has been selected, Pegasus Link Constructors. They consist of Fluor and Balfour Beatty. They made a $ 589 million bid for the expansion of I-35E and US 67, known as the 'Southern Gateway' project. 

With this project, they will expand I-35E to 5+2+5 lanes, with 10 GP lanes and 2 non-tolled reversible express lanes. In addition, US 67 will be expanded to 3+1+3 lanes, with a single non-tolled reversible express lane. 

Pegasus Link Constructors is currently mopping up the 'Dallas Horseshoe Project', ahead of schedule and on budget. The Southern Gateway Project borders the Dallas Horseshoe Project, so they only need to move south to begin construction.

Segment 2B is a separate contract and is a regular six-lane widening of US 67. The whole Southern Gateway Project originally consisted of tolled express lanes, but the tolls were dropped in 2015 after public opinion and Texas lawmakers turned against the tolled expansion of many projects.


----------



## sonysnob

A few views of Interstate 35E through the nearly complete Horseshoe project taken just over a week ago:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/TX/I/35E/I35E_TX_dv_427_north_Apr17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/TX/I/35E/I35E_TX_dv_427-1_north_Apr17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/TX/I/35E/I35E_TX_dv_427-25_north_Apr17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/TX/I/35E/I35E_TX_dv_427-5_north_Apr17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/TX/I/35E/I35E_TX_dv_427-9_north_Apr17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/TX/I/35E/I35E_TX_dv_428_north_Apr17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/TX/I/35E/I35E_TX_dv_428-1_north_Apr17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/TX/I/35E/I35E_TX_dv_428-15_north_Apr17_24x16.jpg


----------



## Joshua Dodd

ChrisZwolle said:


> The winner of the Southern Gateway segment 1 & 2A has been selected, Pegasus Link Constructors. They consist of Fluor and Balfour Beatty. They made a $ 589 million bid for the expansion of I-35E and US 67, known as the 'Southern Gateway' project.
> 
> With this project, they will expand I-35E to 5+2+5 lanes, with 10 GP lanes and 2 non-tolled reversible express lanes. In addition, US 67 will be expanded to 3+1+3 lanes, with a single non-tolled reversible express lane.
> 
> Pegasus Link Constructors is currently mopping up the 'Dallas Horseshoe Project', ahead of schedule and on budget. The Southern Gateway Project borders the Dallas Horseshoe Project, so they only need to move south to begin construction.
> 
> Segment 2B is a separate contract and is a regular six-lane widening of US 67. The whole Southern Gateway Project originally consisted of tolled express lanes, but the tolls were dropped in 2015 after public opinion and Texas lawmakers turned against the tolled expansion of many projects.


How long until construction begins for this project? It will be interesting seeing them dig out 35 in preparation for the Zoo deck park.


----------



## rantanamo

Joshua Dodd said:


> How long until construction begins for this project? It will be interesting seeing them dig out 35 in preparation for the Zoo deck park.


isn't it already below grade at that point?


----------



## Joshua Dodd

Not enough for the new deck park that's going to go there.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They expect to award the contract in June and start construction later this year. It is supposed to be completed by mid-2021. The deck will cost an additional $ 90 million.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Nebraska*

The Nebraska Department of Roads (NDOR) has now become the Nebraska Department of Transportation.

*Gov. Ricketts Signs Three Infrastructure Initiatives*

Today, Governor Pete Ricketts signed three bills into law aimed at improving transportation and housing to help Grow Nebraska.

The first bill, LB339 introduced by Senator Curt Friesen of Henderson, creates the Nebraska Department of Transportation (DOT) by merging the Department of Roads and Department of Aeronautics. This legislation was one of the Governor’s top priorities for the 2017 legislative session, and was passed with overwhelming support from the Legislature.​
Press release: https://governor.nebraska.gov/press/gov-ricketts-signs-three-infrastructure-initiatives


----------



## Joshua Dodd

Speaking of 35E, a new construction project is expected to start soon. The Lowest Stemmons Project is what it's called. 

The Lowest Stemmons Project is bringing a much needed upgrade to a 3.4 mile portion of 35 in the city of Dallas. With 240,000 cars a day, and infrastructure that is long obsolete, this section of freeway is in desperate need for an upgrade. This section of freeway has not been reconfigured since it was built in the late 1950s. 

Fortunately, that upgrade is on the way:

A video presentation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtXwJ6s ... nnel=TxDOT

More information:
http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/sites ... 0paper.pdf


----------



## Luki_SL

*I-75, Dayton*

 [url]http://www.wcpo.com/traffic/one-dead-after-gasoline-tanker-explodes-on-i-75-near-dayton [/url]


Part of the interstate may be damaged after this accident.


----------



## EMArg

Leaving *New York City* by bus, starting at Port Authority and finishing (the video) at the Bronx:


----------



## sonysnob

Video of I-35E through Dallas, TX:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Zoo Interchange, Milwaukee*

The reconstruction of the Zoo Interchange in Milwaukee (I-94 / I-894)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Downtown Houston*

Mind-boggling visualizations of the I-10 / I-45 / I-69 reconstruction around Downtown Houston.


----------



## LegendMeadow

ChrisZwolle said:


> They plan to remove I-45 around Downtown. As a compensation, I-10 and I-69 will be expanded. I-69 will be constructed in a 21 lane tunnel. I-45 will get express lanes all the way to Beltway 8 in North Houston.
> 
> I must say $ 6 - 7 billion doesn't sound particularly expensive for such a large urban project. I think this exceeds Boston's _Big Dig_ in scope.


Really, they are removing freeways from Texas downtowns? Quite sad. hno:


----------



## SounderBruce

LegendMeadow said:


> Really, they are removing freeways from Texas downtowns? Quite sad. hno:


Freeways don't belong in downtowns. Or anywhere with people.

The air and noise pollution alone are bad for public health.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

Freeways serve a vital function for cities. But to choke your downtown with a freeway belt is to make it an island that destroys the natural flowing connectivity that Downtown, the heart of a city, with the rest of it's neighborhoods.


----------



## sonysnob

SounderBruce said:


> Freeways don't belong in downtowns. Or anywhere with people.
> 
> The air and noise pollution alone are bad for public health.


What a BS answer.

There are numerous contributing factors to urban air pollution in a city. While automobiles are certainly a contributing fact, the amount of harmful emissions from vehicles has been very significantly reduced over the past several decades. Furthermore, even in cities without urban freeways (say Vancouver), there are still tons of cars on the road, and tons of congestion. A well functioning freeway can actually reduce air emissions -- vehicles aren't very efficient when their idling. The ill effects from freeways can be pretty effectively managed by good land use planning around freeways much in the same way that good land use planning can effectively mitigate the issues between other incompatible land uses.

It's worth noting, that cities are today, by in large, much less polluted than they were in decades past, and that harmful emissions from vehicles has been reduced by an EPA estimated 99% since 1970.

https://www.epa.gov/air-pollution-t...ents-and-success-air-pollution-transportation


----------



## Joshua Dodd

The reduction in air pollution also has a lot to do with deindustrialization in cities that went from blue collar heavy industry working class to white collar finance.


----------



## Xusein

Houston has lots of underutilized land in it's downtown (lots of surface parking lots) that the highways downtown are probably less of an issue than in certain other cities that are denser, like in Boston and San Francisco which both demolished their elevated viaducts.

That said, this project looks really ambitious and I think it will help improve their downtown a lot.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Nevada*

You can now drive 80 mph on I-80.


----------



## Exethalion

Houston's project looks great, but I feel they could have gone further with the box removal, and gotten rid of the last I-45 portion northwest downtown. It's distribution role being replaced by upgrades and ramps to more local streets. Sam Houston Park and the Buffalo Bayou would then have an unimpeded run from downtown out to the west.

Maybe the horseshoe project will spur Dallas to make a similar future project to remove its freeway box? TX-366 seems the obvious candidate if US-75/I-30 are improved.


----------



## Buffaboy

browntown said:


> Eh, it's not really comparable. I actually just came into this thread to make a comment about how insane it is that the Goethals Bridge has a $15 toll and saw this comment. The difference is that basically everything in the New York area costs 10x as much as it would in a place like Georgia so the comparison is all wrong. I mean, the new Goethals bridge isn't a very big bridge at all and wouldn't even have a toll in most of the country since it's so small, but in New York it's a huge deal was an insane toll that's more than the entire NJ Turnpike just because of all the wastefulness associated with building in New York.


In that case I think I mean upstate NY, but I know where you're coming from.

I could never imagine paying $15 for a TOLL. The Grand Island Bridge toll is $1, last I checked. The supervisor of the island actually made a video about the tolls...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 555, Arkansas*

A bridge over I-555 in Arkansas sustained significant damage after a truck crashed into the support columns and caught fire.

All four columns supporting the bridge at this location were impacted. The first (easternmost) column is completely destroyed and about 25 feet of the cap (the horizontal part of the bent) has been pulled out from under three of the steel beams it supported. 

The second and third columns also sustained heavy damage. The fourth column was the least impacted but showed signs of significant spall due to the intense fire. Three of the 10 beams supporting the bridge deck have no support underneath and have begun to sag under the weight of the bridge deck. This has caused the deck to crack in the immediate area. Regardless, AHTD structural engineers have determined the bridge is stable and not in danger of collapse.​









http://www.kait8.com/story/35758197/driver-dead-in-crash-explosion-at-overpass


----------



## sonysnob

Video of Interstate 64 through Downtown Louisville, Kentuky:


----------



## sonysnob

ChrisZwolle said:


> A bridge over I-555 in Arkansas sustained significant damage after a truck crashed into the support columns and caught fire.
> 
> All four columns supporting the bridge at this location were impacted. The first (easternmost) column is completely destroyed and about 25 feet of the cap (the horizontal part of the bent) has been pulled out from under three of the steel beams it supported.
> 
> The second and third columns also sustained heavy damage. The fourth column was the least impacted but showed signs of significant spall due to the intense fire. Three of the 10 beams supporting the bridge deck have no support underneath and have begun to sag under the weight of the bridge deck. This has caused the deck to crack in the immediate area. Regardless, AHTD structural engineers have determined the bridge is stable and not in danger of collapse.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.kait8.com/story/35758197/driver-dead-in-crash-explosion-at-overpass


That's a crazy accident. It looks like there wasn't any crash protection in front of the bridge piers... They definitely appear to be somewhat set back from the traveled portion of the roadway, but it still appears to be a noteworthy omission.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I've seen that some states are putting up barriers along bridge piers with only two columns. If one column fails in an accident, the whole bridge could collapse. 

Normally there would be some kind of obstacle-free zone along the freeway, where no objects can be placed without a barrier to fend off stray vehicles.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-10 San Bernardino Freeway, California*

*10 Freeway toll lanes approved for across San Bernardino County
*

San Bernardino County will make its first foray into toll lanes.

A 33-mile corridor will be built on the 10 Freeway and span much of the county, transportation officials decided Wednesday, July 12.

The $1.8-billion project would add two toll lanes from the Los Angeles County line near Montclair east to Redlands. An auxiliary lane for traffic to weave in and out at ramps also will be added at various points along the general-purpose lanes.

Construction, which would be split into two stages, is expected to start in late 2018. The first segment, from the county line to the 15 Freeway, is expected to be finished by 2022. The rest would begin in 2021 and take three years to complete.​
Full report: http://www.pe.com/2017/07/12/toll-lanes-approved-for-the-10-freeway-across-san-bernardino-county/

This is one of the largest expansion projects in Southern California. It will add two express lanes across a 33 mile corridor from the Los Angeles County line to Redlands, creating a continuous 12 lane freeway, with 4 general purpose lanes and 2 tolled express lanes each way. Auxiliary lanes will also be constructed at various locations.

The project alternatives (the express lane alternative was selected)


----------



## sonysnob

^ While I am decidedly in favour of this project, it does seem like somewhat of a moot operation if LA County doesn't also enact something similar along it's portion of I-10 into Downtown. (Or at least builds a direct connection to the El Monte Busway). I know that LA County is currently widening the 10 Freeway west of the Kellogg Interchange, but at this point Tolled Express Lanes aren't envisioned on that corridor.


----------



## Penn's Woods

I wonder why that was decided at the county level.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

In some states the road / transit development is the task of regional authorities, often a county or collection of counties through a council of governments (COG). 

For example the Orange County Transportation Authority (OCTA) is generally known as a transit agency, but is also responsible for the planning and funding of major freeway projects. In the Dallas area, the North Central Texas Council of Governments (NCTCOG) is responsible for planning and prioritizing freeway projects.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-94 Wisconsin*

The Zoo Interchange in Milwaukee


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-95 Delaware Turnpike*

I find this interesting in the U.S. A concrete bridge deck on an asphalt highway. Apparently the bridge deck also doubles as the driving surface, so if they want to smoothen out the pavement, the whole deck needs to be replaced.

This is uncommon in Europe (I'd say it's quite rare), usually the entire highway is either concrete or more commonly, asphalt. So they pour asphalt on top of the bridge deck, so they can resurface the pavement without having to replace the bridge structure.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-11, Nevada*

The first 2 mile section of Interstate 11 southbound will open to traffic by the end of July. It runs through the Railroad Pass near Henderson, from the current I-515 terminus through the pass, to a new flyover to US 93/95. 

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/...f-southbound-i-11-to-open-by-the-end-of-july/

The whole project will be completed by late 2018.


----------



## fredcalif

ChrisZwolle said:


> *10 Freeway toll lanes approved for across San Bernardino County
> *
> 
> San Bernardino County will make its first foray into toll lanes.
> 
> A 33-mile corridor will be built on the 10 Freeway and span much of the county, transportation officials decided Wednesday, July 12.
> 
> The $1.8-billion project would add two toll lanes from the Los Angeles County line near Montclair east to Redlands. An auxiliary lane for traffic to weave in and out at ramps also will be added at various points along the general-purpose lanes.
> 
> Construction, which would be split into two stages, is expected to start in late 2018. The first segment, from the county line to the 15 Freeway, is expected to be finished by 2022. The rest would begin in 2021 and take three years to complete.​
> Full report: http://www.pe.com/2017/07/12/toll-lanes-approved-for-the-10-freeway-across-san-bernardino-county/
> 
> This is one of the largest expansion projects in Southern California. It will add two express lanes across a 33 mile corridor from the Los Angeles County line to Redlands, creating a continuous 12 lane freeway, with 4 general purpose lanes and 2 tolled express lanes each way. Auxiliary lanes will also be constructed at various locations.
> 
> The project alternatives (the express lane alternative was selected)


I hope we never build toll lanes in Arizona


----------



## 00Zy99

ChrisZwolle said:


> I find this interesting in the U.S. A concrete bridge deck on an asphalt highway. Apparently the bridge deck also doubles as the driving surface, so if they want to smoothen out the pavement, the whole deck needs to be replaced.
> 
> This is uncommon in Europe (I'd say it's quite rare), usually the entire highway is either concrete or more commonly, asphalt. So they pour asphalt on top of the bridge deck, so they can resurface the pavement without having to replace the bridge structure.


This is actually pretty common on American roads. I wouldn't call it universal, but it is a normality.


----------



## siamu maharaj

00Zy99 said:


> This is actually pretty common on American roads. I wouldn't call it universal, but it is a normality.


I read somewhere that it has got to do with snow/ice. Not sure how true that is.


----------



## siamu maharaj

fredcalif said:


> I hope we never build toll lanes in Arizona


Or their worse sibling - toll lanes.


----------



## geogregor

siamu maharaj said:


> I read somewhere that it has got to do with snow/ice. Not sure how true that is.


I don't know how keeping bare concrete on bridges would help with ice and snow. In fact it might make things worse. 
Salt used for combating snow and ice is quite corrosive to concrete. If you have layer of asphalt (like in Europe) you can just replace the wearing course every few years quite easily (again common practice in Europe).

If the concrete structure of the bridge have to be replaced or fixed it is much more complicated and expensive.

What's more striking that even on concrete highways in Europe bridges are often paved with asphalt. Completely opposite than in the US where many bridges on concrete and asphalt bridges are just left as concrete.

Does anyone have explanation for such divergent approach on both sides of the Atlantic? Is it just due to historical and cultural reason (like "we have always done it that way")?


----------



## VoltAmps

One reason is because the the ground and subsequently the asphalt as well, settles on either side of the bridge (we're talking short bridges) creating a dip in the road right before and after the bridge. Keeping the deck concrete allows for a more seemless connection between between the road and the bridge. Much smoother transition


----------



## geogregor

VoltAmps said:


> One reason is because the the ground and subsequently the asphalt as well, settles on either side of the bridge (we're talking short bridges) creating a dip in the road right before and after the bridge. Keeping the deck concrete allows for a more seemless connection between between the road and the bridge. Much smoother transition


That can't be a reason, bridges in Europe don't have any bigger "dips" than in the US despite being covered by asphalt. In fact I find the difference between the average bridge deck level and the highway level bigger when driving in the US.

Honestly, I could never find definite answer why American engineers stick to policy of concrete decks and European ones to asphalt decks, regardless what is the surface of the highway itself.

It could be, as I mentioned, simply cultural, something like "we have always done it that way". I really don't know.


----------



## flierfy

geogregor said:


> Honestly, I could never find definite answer why American engineers stick to policy of concrete decks and European ones to asphalt decks, regardless what is the surface of the highway itself.


That goes down to standardisation. Guidelines set the limits in with engineers can find a solution. In some cases the limits are so tight that only one option is available to chose from. That leads to a uniform outcome which is quite often an explicit aim. It is simpler to operate and maintain structures like bridges if they are all very similar.


----------



## Nikkodemo

*Route 66*


US Route 66 by ruimc77, en Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-75 Atlanta, GA*

The I-75 express lanes project on these June 2017 aerial photos by the Georgia Department of Transportation.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-75 Miramar, FL*

The express lanes under construction on I-75 in Miramar, a western suburb of Miami. They are building a network of express lanes in the western suburbs of Miami.


----------



## 8166UY

Those two posts give me several thoughts.

- Atlanta looks great with all those trees! Maybe it's not that bad as I thought it was.
- Damn, Miramar will probably be giant mosquito nest. Let's never go there.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ it's like NL but opposite side of Atlantic :lol:


----------



## 8166UY

Haha, less hot though. Plus, they make sure water keeps flowing (also for smell and controlling the levels), so I guess it's probably worst there in Florida. But yeah, I'm currently speckled too.


----------



## browntown

8166UY said:


> Those two posts give me several thoughts.
> 
> - Atlanta looks great with all those trees! Maybe it's not that bad as I thought it was.
> - Damn, Miramar will probably be giant mosquito nest. Let's never go there.


Well Atlanta's nickname is, "the city in a forest" after all..


----------



## Paddington

Most Eastern, Southern, and Midwestern U.S. cities have a vast canopy when viewed from overhead.


----------



## VoltAmps

8166UY said:


> Haha, less hot though. Plus, they make sure water keeps flowing (also for smell and controlling the levels), so I guess it's probably worst there in Florida. But yeah, I'm currently speckled too.


They put those man made lakes and ponds in for aesthetic purposes. I doubt they smell if they were built on purpose. Don't be an idiot


----------



## 00Zy99

The water is artificial, but its not for aesthetics-the idea is to try to drain the surrounding land-remember that all of Miami was built in the Everglades swamps.


----------



## Nexis

> Interstate 280 in Newark


...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 580, Carson City, Nevada*

The 4 mile I-580 extension around Carson City will open to traffic on Wednesday.

The Nevada Department of Transportation is scheduled to open the last leg of the Interstate 580 Carson City Freeway to traffic beginning August 2.

Beginning as early as 10 a.m. August 2, access from the southern end of the freeway will be open and drivers will be able to travel the southern three miles of freeway which has been under construction since June 2015. As part of a phased opening, the new freeway ramps between Fairview Drive at the northern end of the new Carson City Freeway will open later that afternoon or on August 3.​
Full report: http://carsonvalleytimes.com/2017/07/31/final-leg-of-carson-city-freeway-to-open-wednesday/


----------



## sonysnob

A few photos from Interstate 91 in Hartford, Connecticut:














































My gallery can be found here:
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CT/I/91/index.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Hartford has one of the most interesting freeway systems in the U.S. Especially due to the number of partially / unbuilt freeways.


----------



## sonysnob

^ Yeah, definitely agree. I have driven through Hartford a couple of times over the years, and I very much enjoy it every time. Connecticut in general is a really interesting place from a highways perspective. Few states embraced the interstate era with as much enthusiasm as Connecticut.


----------



## Exethalion

Hartford is home to that famous 4 level stack which only has 50% of its ramps in use.


----------



## Xusein

I-84 west of Hartford is interesting mostly because of all of the left exit interchanges that are bigger than they should be due to the highway cancellations.


----------



## BlazerBlaze

8166UY said:


> Those two posts give me several thoughts.
> 
> - *Atlanta looks great with all those trees! Maybe it's not that bad as I thought it was*.
> - Damn, Miramar will probably be giant mosquito nest. Let's never go there.


We're known as the City in a Forest for a reason. =) You should really come and check it out!


----------



## xzmattzx

Nikkodemo said:


> *Route 66*
> 
> 
> US Route 66 by ruimc77, en Flickr


Technically this is I-40 west of Albuquerque; the original Route 66 is still extant in many places in this area, but as a little two-lane road that provides access to some ranches.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-422, Birmingham Northern Beltline*

*ALDOT says Northern Beltline construction stopped until 2019
*

We're learning the rest of the Northern Beltline is on hold until the state can get more funding.

The first project started in 2014 and is complete but the second project will not start until funds become available. ALDOT hopes that is at least in 2019.

The first project included 1-point-34 miles of grading and drainage from Highway 79 to 75.

The second project, consisting of bridges over Self Creek, is tentatively scheduled for some time in 2019.

ALDOT hopes to complete the project in the year of 2054 but that all depends on funding and if they can stay on schedule.​
Full report: http://www.wbrc.com/story/36135333/aldot-says-northern-beltline-construction-stopped-until-2019










In my opinion this is a pointless project to pursue without a source of funding. If they can't come up with the funds to build a 1.3 mile segment over a period of some 6-7 years, how are they going to fund a 50+ mile freeway? 

The fact that they're hoping to complete the project in *2054* _if they can stay on schedule_ says enough...

And not to mention there is quite some debate about the purpose and need of the Birmingham Northern Beltline. They hope it will spur the same growth that occurred when I-459 was built along the south side of Birmingham, but whether that will materialize can be described as 'guesswork' or 'wishful thinking'.


----------



## SSCwarrior

*2054?!!* No way...:bash::bash: Why on earth would it take 30 years to build 80km of highway?


----------



## CNGL

I'd say the completion date is more likely February 30 :colgate:.


----------



## perheps

fact this first project was in 1963 plan 50 miles Highway 
Development hell too longest time did not start anything 
If you find unused road they seen today because stop work left behind


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 75, Detroit*

I-75 is closed to all southbound traffic for almost two years while they rebuild the entire freeway - including bridges - on an 8 mile stretch south of Detroit. 

The closure started in February 2017 and will last through 2018. The entire freeway is being rebuilt in two stages, in 2017 the southbound lanes and bridge are demolished and rebuild. In 2018, northbound traffic switches over and the northbound lanes and bridges are demolished and rebuild. 

So southbound traffic is being detoured long-term while northbound traffic remains possible at all times. 

This approach considerably shortens the construction time and reduces cost. It may also reduce congestion as traffic disperses across the road network. I-75 is not highly saturated with 85,000 - 100,000 vehicles per day on six lanes and the arterial road network is pretty capacious.

April 2017 imagery from Google Earth:


----------



## ttownfeen

Detroit can do that because of the extensive freeway network. This would cause utter chaos in Atlanta. Basically what happened with the 85 bridge collapse.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*South Dakota*

Metric along I-29 in South Dakota:


----------



## Professor L Gee

^^ Must be near the border, I'm guessing.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's near Sioux City in the far southeast of South Dakota, which is over 450 miles from the Canadian border.


----------



## italystf

ChrisZwolle said:


> Metric along I-29 in South Dakota:


Only there and on I-19 in Arizona?


----------



## Professor L Gee

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's near Sioux City in the far southeast of South Dakota, which is over 450 miles from the Canadian border.


 My eyes read "South," my mind interpreted it as "North."


----------



## sonysnob

^ There is a smattering of metric units in many areas of the United States. There are numerous distance signs in California that list distances in both miles and kilometers. New Hampshire also typically signs their freeway interchanges in both imperial and metric units.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Total eclipse of the Interstate*

Massive traffic congestion in the path of the eclipse across the United States.


Eclipse Traffic by European Roads, on Flickr


Eclipse Traffic by European Roads, on Flickr


Eclipse Traffic by European Roads, on Flickr


Eclipse Traffic by European Roads, on Flickr


Eclipse Traffic by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## Buffaboy

That's a pretty crazy set of pictures there. Luckily for me, I'll be able to catch the entire thing from my backyard in 7 years. It passes over Buffalo.


----------



## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Massive traffic congestion in the path of the eclipse across the United States.
> 
> 
> Eclipse Traffic by European Roads, on Flickr


Wow, according to Google Maps that is a massive 5 hours of delay over roughly 130km/80 miles :nuts:

There's this 3 hour traffic jam near Idaho Falls as well


----------



## jdb.2

You could just have watched the Eclipse by the side of the road then


----------



## SounderBruce

jdb.2 said:


> You could just have watched the Eclipse by the side of the road then


Very illegal and very unsafe. It's really stupid to block the shoulders for emergency vehicles (and I did see a good few ambulances having to use it while returning from Oregon).

Speaking of Oregon and the eclipse, it took 6 hours to go from Salem to Portland, thanks to Oregon DOT's lack of traffic management. No flaggers out on the onramps, barely any incident response crews to clear the many small collisions and accidents, and the VMS signs were turned off for the most part.

Total failure on their part. I'll be headed (and staying) to Dallas for the 2024 eclipse.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

6 hours to cover those 50 miles? Wow.


----------



## SounderBruce

Was totally worth it to get these shots (from Buena Vista, Oregon):


Total solar eclipse from Buena Vista, OR by SounderBruce, on Flickr


Buena Vista Park during totality by SounderBruce, on Flickr


Buena Vista Park after totality by SounderBruce, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A solar eclipse is amazing, I witnessed the 1999 eclipse in Germany. The photos and videos don't do it justice, it's not just a sight but an experience.


----------



## Dariusb

SSCwarrior said:


> *2054?!!* No way...:bash::bash: Why on earth would it take 30 years to build 80km of highway?


Damn. I wonder how long it'll take to build the 264 miles of I-49 between Texarkana, Ark and Ft. Smith, Ark? They haven't even started the project yet and its been a long process since it was first proposed in the late 80's.


----------



## smokiboy

nick.english.dept said:


> Awesome Job! this type of cover with green space is an absolute must for many cities! Great Job Denver!


It seems like a very expensive proposition for such a low density neighborhood.
Looks good though, be nice to extend it on both sides a few more blocks.


----------



## nick.english.dept

Awesome Pics Sounder Bruce! Keep up the good work! 



SounderBruce said:


> Looking through some old unpublished photos makes me really miss the rainy season:
> 
> 
> Rainy traffic on I-5 by SounderBruce, on Flickr


----------



## nick.english.dept

They are "okay" when no more than four roads lead to the roundabout, traffic circle or rotary and there is moderate traffic at worst. Any more roads and heavy traffic leads to a traffic chaos. I used to like them in certain neighborhoods here in Europe where I now live, where the traffic circle meant the absence of traffic lights and you would enter and exit the circle at ease. In the denser, heavier traffic areas of the city center though they were a nightmare especially with the addition of traffic lights to accomodate the needs of drivers on feeder streets onto the primary arterial roads. On the other hand in many cities where roundabouts appear, they often house a neighborhood square with cafes, shops etc. It really depends on the needs of the area; but by no means can they handle very heavy traffic conditions. IMO. 




Innsertnamehere said:


> yup. Same thing in Canada, they essentially didn't exist until 10 years ago or so. Slowly becoming more common, but its taking time. More and more people are starting to understand them.
> 
> The one big issue is that absolutely nobody signals their intention to exit the roundabout, they just leave. its a minor issue as you don't know if the person is exiting where you are entering or not, meaning you are unsure of whether you can enter the roundabout.


----------



## nick.english.dept

geogregor said:


> But you shouldn't operate those aps while driving. *Set destinations before you start driving*.


Absolutely! Use of Cell Phones and Apps of any kind while driving should be prohibited and cracked down on! Why someone has to lose their life due to some dizzy bimbo or bozo calling or making a call depresses the heck out of me. Cell phones have their use as do apps, but they do not belong anywhere near the operator of the world's most dangerous weapon of all time...namely the car.


----------



## Buffaboy

I don't use my phone when I drive. Instead, since I have an SUV from 2003, I put in a new JVC unit with bluetooth and USB connectivity. I have a mount to attach my phone to an air vent. I open Spotify before I get on the road, put it in the mount, and change songs by pushing buttons on the radio unit, because I don't have to take my eyes off the road when driving. Of course if I want to see what I'm playing then I just take a 0.5 second glance. The only time I actually touch the phone is if I'm trying to push the shuffle button or something that doesn't take more than 3 seconds, and I always do this at a light that will be red for a while. Everything else is touchless and handsfree...they installed a microphone in the car, and I can push a button and talk to Siri.


----------



## sonysnob

Video of Interstate 70 approaching St. Louis and the Stan Musial Bridge:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Irma*

Hurricane Irma evacuation traffic.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^The Weather Channel's meteorologists were spending an awful lot of time doing traffic yesterday evening. Showing maps like that and pointing out where the backups were, that sort of thing. Haven't seen any today, but I haven't been paying attention much; the TV's just on, muted. I glance at it occasionally....

EDITED TO ADD: "Contraflow" - all traffic on both sides going the same direction (inland in this instance) - begins on I-16 at some point.


----------



## SounderBruce

Most of Florida's freeways aren't doing contra-flow because supplies still need to be delivered by southbound vehicles.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/weather/hurricane/article172000577.html


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^True.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Houston*

24 lanes on I-610 in Houston. Unlike the exaggerated claims of 20+ lanes on the Katy Freeway, this section actually has 24 freeway lanes.










This imagery is dated August 31, 2017, so it is only just over a week old. All of Houston has gotten this new imagery taken after Hurricane Harvey flooded the region. It shows that water has receded fairly quickly in most of Houston, by 31 August only the west side still had streets and houses under water, especially near the Brazos River and Addicks Reservoir.

At that time, the Sam Houston Tollway (Beltway 8) was still under water south of I-10:


----------



## nick.english.dept

Beautiful Pic...where is this? 








[/QUOTE]


----------



## keokiracer

^^ Columbus crossroads project in Ohio (I-670/I-71)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ I-71 / I-670 in Columbus, Ohio: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9755441,-82.986425,2816m/data=!3m1!1e3


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ChrisZwolle said:


> 24 lanes on I-610 in Houston. Unlike the exaggerated claims of 20+ lanes on the Katy Freeway, this section actually has 24 freeway lanes.


I must correct myself here, the east bridge (lower part of the picture) is not part of the freeway but carries a frontage road over the railroad track.

From east to west (bottom to top);

* 2 frontage road lanes
* 1 lane ramp from freeway to frontage road
* 2 lanes (future 3 lanes) from I-10 to US 290 and I-610 
* 6 lanes of I-610 northbound 
* 5 lanes of I-610 southbound
* 4 lanes from US 290 / I-610 to I-10
* 2 lanes (future 3 lanes) from HOV lane from US 290 to I-10 and bus terminal
* 1 lane from I-610 to I-10 and bus terminal

Total of 25 lanes, including 23 freeway lanes. 

Southbound traffic on the frontage road doesn't have a dedicated bridge, it uses the future 3 lane carriageway that carries the HOV lane from 290 to 10 and bus terminal.

A very complex situation. I think this is the widest freeway in Houston in terms of freeway lanes. The amount of freeway lanes on the Katy Freeway is usually exaggerated to 20-26 lanes. But in reality there are 5 mainline lanes and 2 express lanes in each direction = 14 freeway lanes. That is really not that much considering the traffic counts being way north of 300,000.


----------



## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> But in reality there are 5 mainline lanes and 2 express lanes in each direction = 12 freeway lanes.


That's 14 freeway lanes


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-610, Houston*

I stiched three Google Earth images together to show I-610 between US 290 and I-10.


Houston I-610 US 290 I-10 interchanges Google Earth by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## ttownfeen

Bravo, Chris. Shows you how this stretch is essentially a giant interchange.


----------



## wgerman

ChrisZwolle said:


> I stiched three Google Earth images together to show I-610 between US 290 and I-10.
> 
> 
> Houston I-610 US 290 I-10 interchanges Google Earth by European Roads, on Flickr


Why does my Google Earth does not show the updated pic. I still see the old pics.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^ Click View and then Historical Imagery


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-278 Goethals Bridge, New York*

The Goethals Bridge second span seems to make good progress.


----------



## wgerman

Where is this bridge at?


----------



## Luki_SL

^^It`s  here   I-278.


----------



## sotonsi

The meeting of the Route Numbering Committee a couple of weeks ago has approved the removal of I-895 in New York (a pathetically short one-way interstate at JFK) as well as the addition of I-57 along US67 between I-40 and US412 in Arkansas.


----------



## CNGL

^^ The "patetically short one-way interstate at JFK" is I-878, not I-895 which is (was) the Sheridan expressway in the Bronx. There's also a 72 mile I-165 in Kentucky, longer than some 2dis. It will run along the Natcher Parkway.

Anyway, the I-895 removal has made me to rewrite some of my plans. These will eventually cover all of the USA and include several running gags on AARoads, like an 85 mph section West of Washington DC (however not as I-366 but as part of I-666 :devil, an interstate to Alanland (which is also not included), and a new expressway in Chicago named the Hypotenuse using mostly railroad ROWs.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-35W, Fort Worth, Texas*

An aerial update video of the massive North Tarrant Express project on I-35W in Fort Worth. 

The expansion is unbelievable, from four lanes to something four times as wide. The I-35W / I-820 interchange is simply mind-boggling, I wonder if it is the interchange with the most direct connectors in the world. There are 10 90 degree flyovers in this phase, a full build-out could mean 16 direct connectors if they ever build express lanes on I-820 west of I-35W.


----------



## sonysnob

Pictures of the northern end of I-805 in San Diego. A project had just been completed to add HOV lanes to this portion of the freeway:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/805/I805_CA_dv_25-4_north_Apr17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/805/I805_CA_dv_25-5_north_Apr17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/805/I805_CA_cl_25-5_south_SB_Apr17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/805/I805_CA_cl_25-5_south_Apr17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/805/I805_CA_cl_25-5_north_Apr17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/805/I805_CA_cl_25-5_north_NB_Apr17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/805/I805_CA_dv_26_north_Apr17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/805/I805_CA_dv_28_north_Apr17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/805/I805_CA_dv_28-4_north_Apr17_24x16.jpg


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Am I the only one amazed at the amount of bridge construction in NYC right now? There are 4 major bridge projects underway. It's going to make a huge difference the the appearance of the city - a lot of these old crumbling substandard bridges will be replaced by modern, high standard ones. Now they just need to deal with their airports, and get Amtrak Gateway going.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-25, Colorado*

Regional media report that $ 350 million in funding has been identified to expand I-25 between Monument and Castle Rock to six lanes. It is the final section of I-25 between Colorado Springs and Denver to be widened to six lanes. Construction could start by summer 2019.

http://www.koaa.com/story/36595091/350-million-identified-for-i-25-expansion


----------



## Kanadzie

Innsertnamehere said:


> Am I the only one amazed at the amount of bridge construction in NYC right now? There are 4 major bridge projects underway. It's going to make a huge difference the the appearance of the city - a lot of these old crumbling substandard bridges will be replaced by modern, high standard ones. Now they just need to deal with their airports, and get Amtrak Gateway going.


I know, I just made the mistake of flying La Guardia :nuts:

The bridge construction looks interesting but I'm not sure if the appearance will change much... Brooklyn & Manhattan Bridges, the George Washington, etc will probably remain much more imposing and aesthetically interesting


----------



## wgerman

ChrisZwolle said:


> An aerial update video of the massive North Tarrant Express project on I-35W in Fort Worth.
> 
> The expansion is unbelievable, from four lanes to something four times as wide. The I-35W / I-820 interchange is simply mind-boggling, I wonder if it is the interchange with the most direct connectors in the world. There are 10 90 degree flyovers in this phase, a full build-out could mean 16 direct connectors if they ever build express lanes on I-820 west of I-35W.


Very impressive, whats the completion date?


----------



## sonysnob

Some photos of I-87 approaching the I-95 interchange in The Bronx, New York:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/NY/I/87/I87_NY_dv_7-9_south_Jul16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/NY/I/87/I87_NY_dv_7-6_south_Jul16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/NY/I/87/I87_NY_dv_7-5_south_Jul16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/NY/I/87/I87_NY_dv_7-25_south_Jul16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/NY/I/87/I87_NY_dv_7-1_south_Jul16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/NY/I/87/I87_NY_dv_7_south_Jul16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/NY/I/87/I87_NY_dv_6-25_south_Jul16_24x16.jpg


----------



## siamu maharaj

NYC interstates have a certain vibe that I just love! They may not be up to current interstate standards, but they more than make up for it in sheer beauty and joy of driving (when it's not at standstill).


----------



## wgerman

Thanks for the pic, I was just there on I87 in June. The ramp from I-95E just off the GW to I-87 N is a cool ride, especially if you have a car that handles well.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-64 Chesapeake, Virginia*

*CONTRACT AWARDED TO BUILD NEW HIGH RISE BRIDGE
Project will also widen 8 miles of I-64 in Chesapeake*

The Commonwealth Transportation Board awarded a $409.6 million contract Tuesday to Granite/Parsons/Corman, Joint Venture of Tarrytown, NY, to widen about 8 miles of Interstate 64 and construct a new High Rise Bridge adjacent to the existing span in the Hampton Roads District. The award is the largest design-build contract in Virginia Department of Transportation history.

The project will widen I-64 from four to six lanes beginning half a mile east of the Interstate 264 interchange at Bowers Hill to one mile east of the Interstate 464 interchange. The widening will add one High Occupancy Toll (HOT) lane in each direction to the existing two general purpose lanes.

The new fixed-span High Rise Bridge will be built just south of the existing High Rise Bridge to carry the three lanes of I-64 west traffic over the Elizabeth River. The new bridge will provide 100-foot vertical clearance over the river. The existing High Rise Bridge will continue to operate and will carry three lanes of I-64 east traffic upon completion of the project.

The project is expected to be complete in summer 2021. It is designed to accommodate a future Phase 2 project, which will expand the corridor to a total of eight lanes and replace the existing High Rise Bridge.​
full press release: http://www.virginiadot.org/newsroom/hampton_roads/2017/contract_awarded_to_build120432.asp

Project overview:


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ important project, PM traffic on this bridge is terrible.
Not long ago I spent 45 minutes at a dead stop to cross... someone had crashed and blocked both lanes


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-35/80/235, Des Moines, Iowa*

The proposed plan for the eastern I-35 / I-80 / I-235 interchanges in Des Moines. They will build a direct ramp for traffic following I-35 north. This is presently a left exit. 










It will be the second reconstruction of the interchange. It was already reconstructed around 2007.

The original interchange layout:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-35 / US 30 Ames, Iowa*

I came across another Iowa project, the construction of a direct connector at the I-35 / US 30 cloverleaf near Ames.


----------



## wgerman

http://www.mystatesman.com/news/tra...o-toll-lanes-per-side/mlcJqKJIuWa0OjnUDpoBLN/

Maybe some movement on expanding I-35 though downtown Austin.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ That is a mind-boggling project. $ 8.1 billion!

The new plan, called 'Capital Express' is to add four express lanes to I-35 throughout the metro area, from Round Rock to south of Austin (33 miles). As there is no space for 12 lanes + frontage roads near Downtown Austin, they plan a triple-deck, below grade freeway, with the frontage roads cantilevered on top of eight main lanes, with four toll lanes even below that.


----------



## sonysnob

ChrisZwolle said:


> Bicycles and pedestrians are usually guided through the median, which means they have to cross over four times. DDIs are better suited for rural or suburban locations with few or no cyclists and pedestrians, or if nearby alternate routes are available for them.


Four. Which is the same number of crossings as a diamond interchange with right turn channels. No interchange design is exceptionally good for pedestrian and bicycles. A diverging diamond doesn't seem really any worse than a more conventional interchange to me either.

I actually like the fact that the median sidewalk tends to be barrier separated on a DDI interchange, up here in the great white north, conventional sidewalks on overpasses tend to end up getting used as snow storage instead of a pedestrian facility in the winter time.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 269 in Mississippi*

I-269 in Northern Mississippi. It is part of an outer loop of Memphis. This section is planned to open soon.









Photo by 'Brooks' of the AAroads forum


----------



## sonysnob

Interstate 15 -- California.

The tolled express lanes in the median of the freeway has a movable central concrete median barrier. This allows the express lanes to be reconfigured from the pictured 2x2 configuration to a 3x1 configuration to better manage peak directional flows into San Diego:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/15/I15_CA_dv_12-1_south_Apr16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/15/I15_CA_dv_12-25_south_Apr16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/15/I15_CA_dv_12-5_south_Apr16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/15/I15_CA_cl_14_south_c_Apr16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/15/I15_CA_cl_14_South_SB_Apr16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/15/I15_CA_cl_14_north_NB_Apr16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/15/I15_CA_cl_14_north_SB_Apr16_24x16.jpg


----------



## gregduh

Really nice pictures. That looks like it would be a lot of fun to drive on as long as traffic is moving well, with the combination of it being monstrous and winding through the geography. How is that barrier moved? I imagine some sort of truck pushes or pulls it over like a snow plow would clear a lane but of course with a different sort of attachment.


----------



## sonysnob

^ The express lanes use a zipper barrier system. It's moved with a special zipper barrier machine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrier_transfer_machine


----------



## Hudson11

I-287 across the Tappan Zee Bridge in New York State (single span - 7 lanes) used the same system before the bridge was replaced. 










here's one on the Golden Gate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMkLcAstxgA


----------



## wgerman

6 free lanes northbound and southbound..........WOW! Even I-10 from west Houston to Katy, Texas is not that wide.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

9 lanes in the peak direction too! First highway I've seen that matches the 401 in terms of peak direction capacity..


----------



## gregduh

That's a sick machine, thanks for sharing that. I have never seen that kind of thing before. I think in terms of planning and land use, it's a more advantageous situation to have a really wide freeway instead of two or three that go roughly parallel, because people will always pick the shortest route anyway. So I have heard, at least. Nice seeing freeways like that in warm, dry climates too. They always look like they're in great shape, mostly.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-66 Northern Virginia*

* Governor McAuliffe and Partners Break Ground on I-66 Outside the Beltway Express Lanes Project *

_~Virginia’s largest public-private partnership project to provide $3.7 billion in transportation improvements to I-66 Corridor in Northern Virginia~_

Governor Terry McAuliffe today joined the Virginia Department of Transportation (VDOT), Department of Rail and Public Transportation, federal, state and local partners, and the Commonwealth’s private partner, I-66 Express Mobility Partners (EMP), to break ground on the I-66 Outside the Beltway Express Lanes Project, which will deliver about $3.7 billion worth of transportation improvements benefitting Northern Virginia’s I-66 Corridor. Governor McAuliffe also announced that construction will be funded completely by the private consortium building the project and that the group has provided nearly $579 million for additional improvements in the corridor.

The project will modify nearly 23 miles of I-66 providing two express lanes in each direction alongside three regular lanes from I-495 to University Boulevard near Route 29 in Gainesville, with dedicated express lanes access points, and space in the median reserved for future transit.

Under a 50-year partnership agreement that protects the public, I-66 EMP assumes responsibility for all costs to design, build, operate and maintain the 66 Express Lanes. This agreement requires zero public investment and requires EMP to pay $800 million for transit service in the corridor and $350 million in other projects to improve the I-66 corridor over the next 50 years. The project’s financial close was reached on November 9, securing the funding necessary to move forward.

The express lanes are scheduled to open by the end of 2022. Key interim improvements are scheduled to be delivered ahead of 2022, such as more than 900 new commuter parking spaces by the summer of 2019, and improvements to the busy Route 28 involving the removal of traffic signals by the summer of 2020.​
Full press release: https://governor.virginia.gov/newsroom/newsarticle?articleId=21812

This is one of the largest road projects in the United States;

* $ 3.7 billion
* 23 miles (42 km) of I-66 expansion
* 6 general purpose lanes
* 4 express lanes
* US 29 in Haymarket to I-495 
* completion in 2022


----------



## ADCS

hammersklavier said:


> TxDOT would be better off spending that $$$ completing the TX-45 beltway around the west side and the US-183 beltway around the east side IMO. Maybe make TX-360 a beltway as well. Or connecting TX-1 to I-35 at Round Rock and Buda...


If 45 west is ever completed, it will be the most expensive suburban highway in US history, and will face enormous, well-heeled opposition.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It seems like Austin's version of Atlanta's never built Northern Arc.


----------



## Abhishek901

gregduh said:


> I think in terms of planning and land use, it's a more advantageous situation to have a really wide freeway instead of two or three that go roughly parallel, because people will always pick the shortest route anyway. So I have heard, at least.


After a certain number of lanes, every new lane has less marginal benefit. Drivers have difficulty filling in empty spaces because they can't see (or change) lanes that are 5 lanes away from them. So, some lanes end up with slower traffic while some others are under occupied.

Also, if there is an emergency, the entire set of lanes in that direction could be shut down. If there are multiple smaller freeways, then there are always alternate routes available. One can see this benefit in collector express systems as well.


----------



## OakRidge

I-430 bridge from Two Rivers Park by Arkansas Highways, on Flickr


----------



## Kanadzie

gregduh said:


> That's a sick machine, thanks for sharing that. I have never seen that kind of thing before. I think in terms of planning and land use, it's a more advantageous situation to have a really wide freeway instead of two or three that go roughly parallel, because people will always pick the shortest route anyway. So I have heard, at least. Nice seeing freeways like that in warm, dry climates too. They always look like they're in great shape, mostly.


But different parallel roads may well be shorter for their users, like for example people who reside and work in a "north" area of an urban agglomeration, as opposed to an extra south/north jog to access a "central artery".


----------



## Sic'EmBears

Conceptual interchange for I-35E @ U.S. 287 in Waxahachie, TX.

Would be DFW's southernmost interchange.


----------



## ADCS

ChrisZwolle said:


> It seems like Austin's version of Atlanta's never built Northern Arc.


It is, but if you were trying to put it in the middle of Marin County, CA. On the right, you'd have concerns about property values, and on the left, you'd have concerns about property values and environmental impact. It wouldn't surprise me to see 80% opposition in potentially impacted neighborhoods.

Add the rugged terrain, along with the requirement for commercial takings and a new bridge over the Colorado River, and the per-mile cost of the highway would be astronomical.


----------



## redspork02

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/933387579659112453

LA Thanksgiving day traffic made the NEWS. Again.......................:nuts:

<blockquoteclass="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Aerial footage shows traffic gridlock in Los Angeles as the Thanksgiving travel rush begins <a href="https://t.co/7CTE58NLuz">pic.twitter.com/7CTE58NLuz</a></p>— CNN (@CNN) <a href="https://twitter.com/CNN/status/933387579659112453?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 22, 2017</a></blockquote> <script asyncsrc="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Abhishek901 said:


> After a certain number of lanes, every new lane has less marginal benefit. Drivers have difficulty filling in empty spaces because they can't see (or change) lanes that are 5 lanes away from them. So, some lanes end up with slower traffic while some others are under occupied.
> 
> Also, if there is an emergency, the entire set of lanes in that direction could be shut down. If there are multiple smaller freeways, then there are always alternate routes available. One can see this benefit in collector express systems as well.


Thus collector express systems, allows the benefits of narrower highways while still providing a single corridor over all. You can comfortably get up to 10 lanes in each direction with that setup.


----------



## SounderBruce

redspork02 said:


> https://twitter.com/CNN/status/933387579659112453
> 
> LA Thanksgiving day traffic made the NEWS. Again.......................:nuts:


A perfect depiction of induced demand. "The 405" (bleh) just got expanded at the cost of $1 billion and really doesn't look any different during peak periods.

The Sepulveda Pass Metro line can't come soon enough.


----------



## browntown

TM_Germany said:


> ^^ the point of wanting people to move downtown is precisely that you don't need the infrastructure to move them there anymore then...


Yeah, but not everybody can afford $3000+/mo rents like you get in cities like San Fran and NYC so there's that whole issue.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

The idea with dense downtowns too is that auto based transport is inherently low density as cars need tons of space to store and service.. you need public transport to service dense areas. Austin does not have good transit. LA doesn't either, and it's built form is very very dispersed making it extremely difficult to service with public transport. It's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. You need density for transit, but you need transit for density. And in the US, the demand for low density (ground related) housing forms means that transit is made extremely difficult to be effective.

Places like the Netherlands have extremely effective transit networks as there is infrastructure and densities to support them. The Netherlands also has a large highway network, but serves more as a freight and commercial use.

Of course transit can never service all trips either, even in the most transit dependant areas like Tokyo there are significant auto trips made. The goal is to simply serve a large amount of trips, not all.

I think the other big issue in the US is that it is always treated as an all or nothing issue, you either have transit or roads. The solution is the middle.


----------



## keokiracer

Innsertnamehere said:


> Places like the Netherlands have extremely effective transit networks as there is infrastructure and densities to support them. The Netherlands also has a large highway network, *but serves more as a freight and commercial use.*


Utter nonsense. Yes, the Netherlands is denser in general and spends about 50% of its infra budget on public transit, yet in a massive majority of trips public transit does not even compete with the car (that being defined as more than 3x the traveltime compared to the car, and yet you call it "extremely effective" :lol, this is despite 2/3 decades of barely any new highways and widenings (see this list of records of decisions and note the massive drop in projects between ~1980 and 2008) and instead improving public transit. Luckily weve come back from this and are starting on en masse widening our highways, since 2 million+ extra people and more distance travelled due to mass-planned VINEX-locations (which were built to cope with the growing population whilst the jobs didn't move to those areas resulting in lots and lots of relatively long-distance commuting) has caused us to have an incredibly overburdened road/highway system.


----------



## sonysnob

Innsertnamehere said:


> The idea with dense downtowns too is that auto based transport is inherently low density as cars need tons of space to store and service.. you need public transport to service dense areas. Austin does not have good transit. LA doesn't either, and it's built form is very very dispersed making it extremely difficult to service with public transport. It's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. You need density for transit, but you need transit for density. And in the US, the demand for low density (ground related) housing forms means that transit is made extremely difficult to be effective.


I think it's worth pointing out that LA's metro has both more stations, and many more miles of track laid down than Toronto currently has.

Transit ridership in LA does pale in comparison to surrounding highway corridors. Consider the Gold Line in LA, which serves Pasadena, one of the more dense communities in LA. In November, 2017, the line served about 52,000 boardings on the average weekday. That stat is cumulative for the entire line, not just for a spot to spot trip between stations. That's a pretty small number compared to the 210 Freeway, for which the Gold Line runs in the median of. The 210 Freeway carries in excess of 300,000 vehicles per day, on the busiest spot segment.

Of course, it's worth pointing out that comparing a spot segment to the daily boardings of the entire line isn't even a fair apples to apples comparison. The daily boardings stat is a cumulative total, a cumulative total number of trips on the highway network between could be in excess of 500,000 or 600,000 vehicle trips. And the person density per vehicle on the highway is greater than 1 person per vehicle.

Metro Rail Daily boardings:
http://isotp.metro.net/MetroRidership/IndexRail.aspx

Caltrans Traffic Volumes:
https://data.ca.gov/dataset/caltrans-traffic-volumes

Locally, a comparable example would be to compare the daily boardings on the Mississauga Transitway to that of the competing Highway 403 corridor.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I believe that as a rule of thumb, the average occupancy of a vehicle in Europe is about 1.2. However in Los Angeles it may be higher due to all the carpool and vanpool incentives. Carpooling is not a thing in most of Europe. Dedicated carpool lanes on freeways in Europe are virtually unheard of, there are only a few exceptions.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

browntown said:


> Yeah, but not everybody can afford $3000+/mo rents like you get in cities like San Fran and NYC so there's that whole issue.


That's also another housing bubble waiting to pop.


----------



## sotonsi

Joshua Dodd said:


> That's also another housing bubble waiting to pop.


It won't pop if you increase demand by seeking to increase the numbers living in downtown...

I'm not sure it is a bubble - limited supply, high demand. Detroit's downtown would be cheap, San Francisco expensive.


----------



## TM_Germany

browntown said:


> Yeah, but not everybody can afford $3000+/mo rents like you get in cities like San Fran and NYC so there's that whole issue.


The solution to that is increasing the size of the downtown area and thus offering much more high density housing, so that prizes stabilize. However, since the entire L.A. basin is already occupied by low density housing, that's a very tine consuming and expensive process. Sustainability is something extremely important in city planning but that was completely disregarded in the post war world, especially so in the U.S.


----------



## browntown

TM_Germany said:


> The solution to that is increasing the size of the downtown area and thus offering much more high density housing, so that prizes stabilize. However, since the entire L.A. basin is already occupied by low density housing, that's a very tine consuming and expensive process. Sustainability is something extremely important in city planning but that was completely disregarded in the post war world, especially so in the U.S.


Yeah, but people who already own land in the less dense areas on places like San Fran and NYC are MASSIVE NIMBYs so there's basically no way those cities will get much denser. It's the old gatekeepers problem.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> I-95 will be rerouted around Trenton, New Jersey. Since I-95 was built, there has been a gap in I-95 in Central Jersey.
> 
> 
> 
> I-95 will now be rerouted across I-276 and the New Jersey Turnpike around the south and east side of Trenton. Former I-95 will become an extension of I-295.
> 
> 
> 
> There will be an interesting exit numbering, as Pennsylvania I-295 will increase exit numbers going north, but New Jersey I-295 will increase the exit numbering based on the existing pattern, so south to Pennsylvania. They meet at the Scudders Falls Bridge.
> 
> 
> 
> Earlier plans called for a renumbering of I-295/I-95 to Interstate 195 around Trenton. The renumbering will be implemented in January. This completes an uninterrupted I-95 from Florida to Maine.
> 
> 
> 
> You won't be driving on I-95 near Trenton any more. Hello, I-295.




It should be noted that the interchange between the existing 95 and the Pennsylvania Turnpike isn’t open yet (unless it’s happened in the last couple of weeks), so 95 is not quite uninterrupted yet.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-70 Colorado*

A pothole formed on a bridge of I-70 near Idaho Springs, Colorado.

Interesting to see the bridge design. Here you see rebar with an asphalt wearing course on top of it. The bridge deck is also the driving surface. The bridge deck is supported by steel beams underneath.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Follow-up on I-95 around Trenton: I just drove from New Jersey exit 2 to Philadelphia. No sign of the new exit numbering or the change from 95 to 295; the one ramp I saw at the 95/276 junction is still missing some deck segments.
Stay tuned....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The new signs will go up in January, according to NJ: http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/12/interstate_95_near_trenton_is_getting_a_new_number.html


----------



## Penn's Woods

I know that’s what the article said; I was hoping there might be some, um, sign of it.
It’s more important that there’ll still a physical gap in 95 (due to the unfinished ramp). I did see, in the main line of 95 southbound right after where I’d guess the new ramp will come in, a new gantry with covered signs. But there have been roadworks through there for some time, so that may (may) just be new signs for traffic on the existing 95 due to realigned lanes or something; from what I could see it was a pull-through on the left and exit 40 on the right.


----------



## SounderBruce

A UCLA study has found that freeways and urban arterials carrying over 100,000 vehicles per day can produce dangerous levels of pollution for people living within ~1,000 feet. This includes non-exhaust pollutants that come from tires, brake pads, and other parts of all vehicles (including electric ones).

http://www.latimes.com/local/califo...ution-what-you-can-do-20171230-htmlstory.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

So you need more frontage roads and strip malls like Houston...


----------



## N830MH

ChrisZwolle said:


> A pothole formed on a bridge of I-70 near Idaho Springs, Colorado.
> 
> Interesting to see the bridge design. Here you see rebar with an asphalt wearing course on top of it. The bridge deck is also the driving surface. The bridge deck is supported by steel beams underneath.


Whoa! I see that. They got a damage on interstate. That's not good! They have to be fixed.


----------



## sonysnob

SounderBruce said:


> A UCLA study has found that freeways and urban arterials carrying over 100,000 vehicles per day can produce dangerous levels of pollution for people living within ~1,000 feet. This includes non-exhaust pollutants that come from tires, brake pads, and other parts of all vehicles (including electric ones).
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/local/califo...ution-what-you-can-do-20171230-htmlstory.html


That's a pretty incomplete picture, particularly when it comes to indoor air quality within a home. Particulate, from things such as soot or brake dust is pretty easily removed through particulate filter systems within a home HVAC system.

And there are a lot of factors that can negatively impact indoor household air quality, in much more measurable ways than living beside a freeway. Factors such as cooking, both in terms of items cooked, and the fuel used to cook it, the use of household air cleaning products, household mold, and household air circulation all contribute significantly to indoor air quality, and are factors regardless of where a home is situated.

I'd argue that that article is fairly alarmist, without painting a very complete picture about how many factors actually contribute to indoor air quality, or really getting into time weighted averaging for exposure based on actual health effects from chemical exposure.

A better guide to understanding air quality implications can be found by perusing the NIOSH guide:

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/pgintrod.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Snow on I-16 and I-95 near Savannah, Georgia.

Snowfall is apparently pretty rare in this area, according to Wikipedia: _decades might pass between snowfall events_


----------



## triodegradable

wow


----------



## SounderBruce

INRIX data is skewed for urban areas, period. They group freeway and local street traffic together, which throws a lot of rankings off.


----------



## Ale92MilanoSpA_

*I-80 I-580 Richmond–San Rafael Bridge *
Driving through California (United States) from San Rafael to Berkeley 21.01.2018 Timelapse x4


----------



## jchernin

Ale92MilanoSpA_ said:


> *I-80 I-580 Richmond–San Rafael Bridge *
> Driving through California (United States) from San Rafael to Berkeley 21.01.2018 Timelapse x4


The shoulder of the lower deck is opening up in April as an extra lane in heavy traffic. If you look carefully in the video you can see the overhead boxes that will display whether the lane is open or not.

The shoulder of the upper deck is being turned into a bike lane. The idea of a removable barrier is being studied so that the upper deck’s shoulder would be open to cars during heavy traffic as well.

https://sfgate.com/bayarea/article/...-traffic-lane-12530688.php#item-85307-tbla-65


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

SounderBruce said:


> INRIX data is skewed for urban areas, period. They group freeway and local street traffic together, which throws a lot of rankings off.


The ranking is accurate for Washington. The roads are garbage here, not sure where all that gas tax money goes. Most of the roads look like they have been touched in decades and some actually haven't. Not what I expected when I moved to one of the wealthiest places in the country.



> Washington ranks 43rd in the nation in highway performance and cost-effectiveness in the Annual Highway Report by Reason Foundation.
> 
> Washington ranks 16th in fatality rate, 35th in deficient bridges, 45th in rural Interstate pavement condition, 37th in urban Interstate pavement condition, and 43rd in urbanized area congestion.
> 
> On spending, Washington ranks 39th in total disbursements per mile and 25th in administrative disbursements per mile.
> 
> Washington’s best rankings are fatality rate (16th), administrative disbursements per mile (25th) and rural arterial pavement condition (27th).
> 
> Washington’s worst rankings are rural Interstate pavement condition (45th), rural arterial lane-width (43rd) and urbanized area congestion (43rd).
> 
> Washington’s state-controlled highway mileage makes it the 16th largest system.


----------



## SounderBruce

I-275westcoastfl said:


> The ranking is accurate for Washington. The roads are garbage here, not sure where all that gas tax money goes. Most of the roads look like they have been touched in decades and some actually haven't. Not what I expected when I moved to one of the wealthiest places in the country.


It depends on the municipality and legislative district. A powerful enough legislator can milk WSDOT for good funding (the roads out in Eastern WA can range from awful to pristine). Most of the gas tax proceeds go to the statewide transportation packages, of which the mega-projects in the Puget Sound region take a huge chunk.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some states in the western plains have a very large state highway network relative to their population, especially the Dakotas and states south of there. I believe North Dakota has the highest state highway mileage per capita in the country.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-10 / I-410 San Antonio, Texas*

The schematic for the I-10 / I-410 5 level stack interchange on the east side of San Antonio. It replaces a cloverleaf.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-285, North Carolina*

*I-285 Gets Federal Approval as the Next New Interstate for North Carolina*

North Carolina is getting a new interstate, Governor Roy Cooper announced Thursday. The Federal Highway Administration has approved Interstate 285 for the 23-mile stretch of U.S. 52 between I-40 in Winston-Salem and I-85 in Lexington.

N.C. Department of Transportation officials made the request to upgrade the highway to regular interstate status in September 2017 after completing a pavement and interchange project that brought that stretch of U.S. 52 up to interstate standards. Drivers should see the new interstate signs going up later this year.

Making the highway an interstate has been in the plans for more than a decade, as "Future Interstate 285 Corridor" signs have been up along the route since 2006.​
Full press release: https://apps.ncdot.gov/newsreleases/details.aspx?r=14850


----------



## Penn's Woods

I can’t keep track of North Carolina’s Interstates any more.

By the way, nothing new on 95/295 around Trenton as of this afternoon.


----------



## Ale92MilanoSpA_

Driving across Golden Gate Bridge (United States) from San Francisco to Sausalito 21.01.2018 Timelapse x4


----------



## Arul Murugan

Driving across I 90-Chicago Down town-I 90 Arlington Heights


----------



## Xusein

I-275westcoastfl said:


> The ranking is accurate for Washington. The roads are garbage here, not sure where all that gas tax money goes. Most of the roads look like they have been touched in decades and some actually haven't. Not what I expected when I moved to one of the wealthiest places in the country.


I've noticed more road construction lately so the ranking might improve. The major problem here is that the roads are massively outdated for the population they serve and they are aging at the same time. And the congestion makes it hard for WSDOT to do major repairs for a long time.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-85 / I-385 Greenville, South Carolina*

An update of the I-85 / I-385 interchange reconstruction in Greenville, South Carolina. I believe this is the largest project in the state currently.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-29 / I-80 Council Bluffs, Iowa*

The I-29 / I-80 / I-480 interchanges at Council Bluffs, Iowa are being reconstructed, the first phases were completed in October. It is currently the largest project in the state of Iowa. The project includes 18 miles of Interstate Highway and 59 bridges. The project is planned to run through 2022, it has a pricetag of over $ 1.2 billion.


----------



## siamu maharaj

Is this to reduce noise or channel water to reduce hydroplaning? Or something totally else?


----------



## VoltAmps

siamu maharaj said:


> Is this to reduce noise or channel water to reduce hydroplaning? Or something totally else?


Reduce noise, smoother ride, and increase durability


----------



## Buffaboy

^^ It's called longitudinal tining.

Some news in my area, which generally lacks major infrastructure projects:


----------



## jonathaninATX

*Official Wants Driverless-Only Lanes on Busy Texas Highway*



> By Bruce Selcraig
> Feb 20th. 2018
> 
> Bexar County Commissioner Kevin Wolff believes that a meeting he had last month in Washington with federal transportation officials could lead to construction of lanes for driverless automated vehicles on the Austin-San Antonio section of Interstate 35.
> 
> "This is the first proposal of its kind in the nation that I'm aware of," Wolff said. "And when the feds heard about it, they told me, 'This is just the kind of proposal we want to fund.'"
> 
> If it happens, it'll take a while. The 95-mile stretch of eight-lane highway -- perennially named one of the nation's most congested traffic corridors -- is already scheduled for an $8 billion expansion to add four "managed lanes" around 2025, according to the regional Alamo Metropolitan Planning Organization, or MPO, which Wolff chairs.


http://www.govtech.com/fs/infrastru...verless-Only-Lanes-on-Busy-Texas-Highway.html

I'm all for this idea. This and the proposed High Speed Rail between Austin & San Antonio will be much needed as high population growth continues through out the region.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Houston, Texas*

TxDOT has launched a "Planning and Environmental Linkage Study" (PEL) for two freeways in Houston: I-10 (East Freeway) and I-69 (Southwest Freeway).

*I-10* _East Freeway_ is an eight lane freeway. It is not among the most congested highways in Houston, but carries a high volume of trucks. It was expanded to eight lanes outside I-610 in 1985 and within I-610 in 1993, so the last major reconstruction was 25 years ago. The highest traffic volume is 189,000 vehicles per day.

*I-69* _Southwest Freeway_ is a 9 to 13 lane freeway with a reversible lane. It serves the rapidly growing southwest side of Houston and is the chief route into Fort Bend County. It has been expanded to its current configuration 1992, so the last major reconstruction was 26 years ago. The I-69 / I-610 interchange is being reconstructed as a separate project. The highest traffic volume is 350,000 vehicles per day, which is the second-highest in the state of Texas and one of the highest in the United States.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Renumbered I-95 (now I-295) on the north side of Trenton, New Jersey.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^I passed that point about 24 hours ago. It’s a bloody mess. I was going to post about it when I had time to describe just what a mess it is.
In short, nothing’s happened yet from the Pennsylvania line through exit 2 (or in Pennsylvania); farther up than that it’s a mess, with exit numbers and route markers MOSTLY changed and two sets of mileposts in places.

The mismatched exit numbers right there (69A on the overhead sign, 7B at ground level) are fairly typical of the situation at the moment.


----------



## Penn's Woods

By the way, when I was first driving 30 years ago, the number officially switched at the location of the never-built interchange where 95 would have turned north, so the segment between that point and US 1 was 295 then, then 95 for about 25 years, and is reverting to 295, so the exits you see on that picture - 69 and 71 (plus 68, which is behind the camera) - are actually returning to their old numbers. As soon as I saw the signs they looked familiar.


----------



## Luki_SL

Was  this  abandoned section of I-76 (Pennsylvania Turnpike) ever in use ?


----------



## Penn's Woods

I'd guess so, I know there have been realignments; there used to be more tunnels than there are now. You may want to dig through here: http://alpsroads.net/roads/pa/tpk/

(That's one of my favorite American road sites, by the way.)


----------



## SCWTC4

Luki_SL said:


> Was  this  abandoned section of I-76 (Pennsylvania Turnpike) ever in use ?


Yes it was, between 1940 and 1968:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandoned_Pennsylvania_Turnpike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-45 North Freeway, Houston, Texas*

TxDOT has launched a "Planning and Environmental Linkage Study" (PEL) for a third freeway in Houston: a 24 mile section of I-45 between Beltway 8 in Houston and Loop 336 in Conroe.

Of the three PEL studies, I-45 was the most recent to have seen a major upgrade, this particular segment has been upgraded to current standards in three phases between 1998 and 2006. It is mainly a eight to ten lane freeway, plus a reversible lane along a portion of the corridor.

I-45 is the main access in and out of Montgomery County, north of Houston. Montgomery County has seen tremendous population growth since the 1970s. It grew from 50,000 people in 1970 to 556,000 in 2016, with a population growth of almost 400,000 people since 1990 alone.


----------



## xzmattzx

Luki_SL said:


> Was  this  abandoned section of I-76 (Pennsylvania Turnpike) ever in use ?


Well, Google Maps does have it labelled as "Abandoned Pennsylvania Turnpike", so...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-35E / US 67, Dallas, Texas*

A groundbreaking ceremony was held today for the 'Southern Gateway' project, that consists of the $ 650 million expansion of I-35E and US 67 south of Dallas.

The improvements would also consist of reconstructing reversible non-tolled express lanes, lanes that are open to all users including SOVs (single occupancy vehicles) and HOVs (high occupancy vehicles), and/or general purpose lanes to improve capacity in the corridor. Construction will begin early 2018, with an anticipated completion of 2021.​
https://thesoutherngateway.org/


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*H1*

Honolulu traffic. :nuts:


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Did someone send out another false missile alert? (Shudder)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Metric on I-265 near Louisville, Kentucky.










In Europe you won't see distances of 7.2 or 9.2 km. First, such signs indicating the next 3 interchanges generally do not exist in Europe, distances are usually expressed in meters if under 2000 (sometimes 3000) meters. So you can see 1000 m, 1200 m or 1500 m, but not 3.4 km. In that case it will be rounded off, 9 or 9.2 km is not a relevant difference.


----------



## [atomic]

Apparently there was a Push for metrification in the early 90s (I thought that was only in the 70s) and the signs are going to stay until they fall apart.
explainer video here
They indeed could have rounded the Numbers to make the sign more legible. Also the alignment of the 2 km on the first line is off.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-10 El Paso, Texas*

Conceptual plans for I-10 in El Paso includes a significant expansion projects throughout the entire metro area.

The entire roll plot can be found here: http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot/get-involved/elp/reimagine-1-10/030618-roll-plots.pdf

Some screenshots:

At Downtown El Paso:









Between Downtown and US 54. 8 lanes in one direction.









A 14 lane section in eastern El Paso


----------



## TM_Germany

^^aren't that many lanes already counterproductive?


----------



## wgerman

TM_Germany said:


> ^^aren't that many lanes already counterproductive?


NO!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It helps reduce "turbulence" on the mainlanes. If you enter the freeway and exit the next ramp, you don't have to merge into traffic. Even if this is just a small percentage of traffic, it will impact traffic flow. The fewer lane reductions, the better, especially on this type of urban freeways with numerous entrances and exits in quick succession.

Clear signage could also help through traffic to stay in the 4-5 left lanes when a short wider section appears. This reduces unnecessary lane changes and thereby improves traffic flow.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Very unorthodox lane discipline you’re advocating there. ;-)


----------



## SounderBruce

The amount of extra merging (across all those lanes) is going to worsen congestion on the city streets and mainline lanes.

Texas is really outdoing themselves.


----------



## Exethalion

Luki_SL said:


> Was  this  abandoned section of I-76 (Pennsylvania Turnpike) ever in use ?


Interesting as well is that the western end of the abandoned section lies at the entrance to Breezewood, which is one of the most bizzare creations of interstate administration. Traffic wanting to go from I-70 north to I-76 turnpike East has to cross over its future path twice (3 times in the opposite direction if you count the loop ramp) as well as squeeze onto a surface street sharing with US-30 to pass an extraordinary tourist trap.

This presumably came about because the turnpike originally ran straight by Breezewood, and when I-70 was built, the state could not afford to build an interchange with it. When I-76 was realigned, the town would have been cut-off from its business artery, so instead of routing straight to 76, it passes through the town and a traffic light intersection.


----------



## Penn's Woods

I think the history at Breezewood is more complex than that; if I’m not mistaken, 70 was realigned at some point, so the I-70/US 30 junction is not where it used to be.

Although, looking at that map, I’m confused now....


----------



## Buffaboy

This morning, open road tolling is in place on the North and South Grand Island Bridges on I-190 Niagara Thruway in NY. This is the first time AET has been implemented in Upstate NY.










(Buffalo news)


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Oh nice, didn't know that was happening. Wonder if Ontario plates will get billed.. probably.


----------



## xzmattzx

Innsertnamehere said:


> Oh nice, didn't know that was happening. Wonder if Ontario plates will get billed.. probably.


A small aside, I have a family friend who is from Toronto but moved down here to Delaware for work. As of 8-10 years ago, he could use the 427 ETR for free, because the system didn't bother sending the bill to a Delaware address. I wonder if that's still true, because I would love to get free tolls if I explore north of Toronto.


----------



## fubo

xzmattzx said:


> A small aside, I have a family friend who is from Toronto but moved down here to Delaware for work. As of 8-10 years ago, he could use the 427 ETR for free, because the system didn't bother sending the bill to a Delaware address. I wonder if that's still true, because I would love to get free tolls if I explore north of Toronto.


When I use the toll road to TO from Bflo I get a bill in the mail a couple weeks later. Canadians and others will be billed for the bridges according to NYS


----------



## siamu maharaj

xzmattzx said:


> A small aside, I have a family friend who is from Toronto but moved down here to Delaware for work. As of 8-10 years ago, he could use the 427 ETR for free, because the system didn't bother sending the bill to a Delaware address. I wonder if that's still true, because I would love to get free tolls if I explore north of Toronto.


*407 ETR.

Even if they send a bill to Delaware, wouldn't they need to have an actual agreement with Delaware DMV so that the driver can't renew his plates without paying the bills? Delaware being a tiny state, they probably didn't think it was worth the hassle having an agreement with them. Probably have one with NY, especially since they share border.


----------



## xzmattzx

siamu maharaj said:


> *407 ETR.
> 
> Even if they send a bill to Delaware, wouldn't they need to have an actual agreement with Delaware DMV so that the driver can't renew his plates without paying the bills? Delaware being a tiny state, they probably didn't think it was worth the hassle having an agreement with them. Probably have one with NY, especially since they share border.


That's the conclusion my friend came to. There's less than a million people here, and we don't border Ontario (or even Canada), so they probably didn't bother with the hassle. Ontario certainly has an agreement with New York, Michigan, probably Ohio and Pennsylvania, etc. I know that Delaware has agreements like you mentioned with our express toll lanes with Maryland, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, pretty sure Virginia and New York, and I think they had been working on agreements with other I-95 states like Connecticut, Massachusetts, and North Carolina.


----------



## Buffaboy

I should add that Gov Andrew Cuomo has said the entire I-90/I-87 Thruway and it's 60 or so till Booths will be converted to AET by 2020. I believe this includes the Williamsville/Lackawanna barriers in Buffalo and the Harriman and Yonkers barriers in Orange and Westchester counties.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

In I-190's case, a significant amount of traffic is likely Ontario plates going to the Queenston-Lewiston border crossing or niagara falls, so not billing them would probably be a significant hit in revenue.

I-90 having electronic rolling will be nice to avoid toll booths and always having to ensure you have change. The 407 has had electronic rolling for 20 years now, its time it moved south of the border.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Buffaboy said:


> I should add that Gov Andrew Cuomo has said the entire I-90/I-87 Thruway and it's 60 or so till Booths will be converted to AET by 2020. I believe this includes the Williamsville/Lackawanna barriers in Buffalo and the Harriman and Yonkers barriers in Orange and Westchester counties.


I thought I recently heard that the Yonkers barrier is going away, actually. Don't quote me on it, though.


----------



## Kanadzie

Innsertnamehere said:


> In I-190's case, a significant amount of traffic is likely Ontario plates going to the Queenston-Lewiston border crossing or niagara falls, so not billing them would probably be a significant hit in revenue.
> 
> I-90 having electronic rolling will be nice to avoid toll booths and always having to ensure you have change. The 407 has had electronic rolling for 20 years now, its time it moved south of the border.


The electronic tolling sucks so hard for foreign traffic though when they nail you with that "video toll" BS hno:
Hopefully the Americans are not as greedy as the Canucks


----------



## geogregor

Kanadzie said:


> The electronic tolling sucks so hard for foreign traffic though when they nail you with that "video toll" BS hno:
> Hopefully the Americans are not as greedy as the Canucks


And there is always problem with rental cars. Some companies charge you extra fees on top of charges, some don't, there is total lack of clarity.

As a rule I avoid electronic toll roads when driving rental cars.


----------



## xzmattzx

geogregor said:


> And there is always problem with rental cars. Some companies charge you extra fees on top of charges, some don't, there is total lack of clarity.
> 
> As a rule I avoid electronic toll roads when driving rental cars.


I did the same in the Miami area. Or, I have a friend book the rental car and let him deal with it! We have actually gotten away with not paying tolls before, with the rental car and all.


----------



## Kanadzie

geogregor said:


> And there is always problem with rental cars. Some companies charge you extra fees on top of charges, some don't, there is total lack of clarity.
> 
> As a rule I avoid electronic toll roads when driving rental cars.


last time I rented a car at the San Francisco airport the pretty lady actually explained me after I declined to pay their "unlimited tolling option" everything and how the tolls can be easily and economically paid, by visiting the website of the toll authority, entering license plate number and credit card number, and paying the normal toll fee (not with some extra BS). It seems like a nice system and bypasses all the headache. Sadly 407 does not have


----------



## sonysnob

Except for _The Toll Roads_ in Orange County which require the plate of a rental car to be registered in advance of the actual trips on the highway. The toll cannot be paid online after the fact, even within the five day grace period typically allotted for tolls without a fastrak transponder.


----------



## geogregor

All the above posts just confirm that electronic tolling is a mess. Systems are clearly designed with local drivers in mind. On top of that car rental companies are desperate for any extra fees they can get hold off.

Fine, as a tourist I will keep avoiding electronic tolling, don't like to be ripped off.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It will be increasingly difficult to avoid electronic tolls as more and more traditional toll roads get converted to AET.


----------



## Anday

*Public gets chance to weigh in on Md. toll lane plans*



> WASHINGTON — Maryland’s $7.5 billion plans to put toll lanes on Interstate 270 and around the Capital Beltway over the American Legion Bridge will go to the public this month for the first official feedback opportunities.
> 
> The four newly announced meetings in Upper Marlboro, Clarksburg, Bethesda and Greenbelt are designed to let neighbors, drivers and commuters offer input on the alternatives that should be considered, environmental concerns, the needs on I-270 and the more than 40 miles of the Capital Beltway from the Virginia side of the Legion Bridge through Montgomery and Prince George’s counties to the Virginia side of the Wilson Bridge.


----------



## Kanadzie

ChrisZwolle said:


> It will be increasingly difficult to avoid electronic tolls as more and more traditional toll roads get converted to AET.


Yeah, I got surprised last time I was in the Virginia Hampton Roads area... the bridge/tunnels now have AET as opposed to no toll. OK but how do I not get reamed by the rental car company?


----------



## xzmattzx

Kanadzie said:


> Yeah, I got surprised last time I was in the Virginia Hampton Roads area... the bridge/tunnels now have AET as opposed to no toll. OK but how do I not get reamed by the rental car company?


Unscrew the plate before you get on the road. Then screw it back on farther down the road. Or, "accidentally" leave something hanging out of the trunk.


----------



## sonysnob

With California, it is possible to just buy a fastrak transponder and use it in the rental car. They sell them (or at least they used to) at grocery stores around the LA area. Because fastrak transponders are just that, a physical transponder, they are transferable between vehicles.

Texas on the other hand, uses a windshield sticker, and as near as I can tell, they aren't transferable between vehicles and need to be tied to a license plate, and removing the windshield sticker actually will apparently damage it so that it can't be used again. That's frustrating to me, as I'd actually like to drive some of the toll roads in Texas.

I did drive Toll 130 several years ago in a rental car, and was actually never billed for it.


----------



## IanCleverly

Civil & Structural Engineer said:


> CDOT has been working with local elected officials and stakeholders to develop concepts and designs to help alleviate congestion, improve safety and maintain the unique environment of the mountains, and is moving forward with a proposed action. As part of the proposed action, westbound I-70 will be widened from two lanes to three at Floyd Hill to accommodate more westbound travellers. I-70 will be reconfigured with simplified curves, bridges and walls to improve line of sight, and improve driver safety. The new westbound I-70 alignment would be placed in a tunnel at the bottom of Floyd Hill to reduce weather impacts and improve driver safety.
> 
> During construction, the westbound alignment can be built adjacent to existing traffic lanes, limiting impacts to the traveling public.The project also proposes to complete a key link of shared-use trail from the Clear Creek Greenway toward the Peaks to Plains Trail in Jefferson County, which was a part of Gov. John Hickenlooper’s Colorado Trails Initiative. The project will complete the trail from the Veterans Memorial Tunnels to the US 6 and I-70 interchange, building on the goal to connect Metro Denver over the Continental Divide.
> 
> The ballot estimate for improvements to I-70 from the top of Floyd Hill to the Veterans Memorial Tunnels is up to $550 million. At this time, CDOT does not have enough funding to start construction on this project once this study is complete. As an interim solution to congestion issues along the I-70 Mountain Corridor, CDOT’s project team is looking at constructing a Westbound I-70 Peak Period Shoulder Lane, or a Mountain Express Lane, similar to the eastbound I-70 Mountain Express Lane. If funding is identified for this $80 million project, construction could start in late spring or summer 2019.



Full Text Here


----------



## High Five

Paving of phase 2 of Boulder City bypass/Interstate 11. Pic from yesterday. Won't be long before you can drive from the Arizona border to Las Vegas without having to stop.










http://i-11nv.com/webcams/


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Louisville would get another "Interstate".

http://www.wdrb.com/story/38282571/...state-would-provide-new-way-around-louisville

It's described as a 50 mile Interstate Highway from I-65 in Bullit County to I-71 in Oldham County, essentially creating a new outer belt route east and southeast of Louisville.


----------



## xzmattzx

High Five said:


> Paving of phase 2 of Boulder City bypass/Interstate 11. Pic from yesterday. Won't be long before you can drive from the Arizona border to Las Vegas without having to stop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://i-11nv.com/webcams/


Nice. I'm looking forward to a quicker trip between Las Vegas and Phoenix in general.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Pennsylvania is slowly converting exit numbers on the piece of 95 in Bucks County that’s becoming 295. As of yesterday old exits 51 and 49 (the latter southbound only) had been renumbered 10 and 8. Route markers and mileposts are still 95’s, so if I were mapping the situation at the moment, I’d show 95 in Pennsylvania becoming 295 at the New Jersey line.


----------



## sonysnob

I-35E approaching the Sam Rayburn Tollway interchange in Dallas. I took these photos in April of this year:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/TX/I/35E/I35E_TX_dv_448-25_south_Apr18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/TX/I/35E/I35E_TX_dv_447-75_south_Apr18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/TX/I/35E/I35E_TX_dv_447-5_south_Apr18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/TX/I/35E/I35E_TX_dv_447-05_south_Apr18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/TX/I/35E/I35E_TX_dv_447_south_Apr18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/TX/I/35E/I35E_TX_dv_446-95_south_Apr18_24x16.jpg


----------



## SounderBruce

Over the weekend, WSDOT closed the northbound lanes of Interstate 5 through Downtown Seattle for a pavement replacement project called "Revive I-5". This was the fourth of six closures and has had plenty of forewarning, so traffic was fairly light.

Got a few pictures, including of an erroneous "Business Loop" shield installed by WSDOT.

Revive I-5 project from Holgate Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr

Revive I-5 project from Holgate Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr

I-5 Business Loop in Seattle by SounderBruce, on Flickr

Revive I-5 project from Holgate Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr

Revive I-5 project from Yesler Way by SounderBruce, on Flickr

Revive I-5 project from Yesler Way by SounderBruce, on Flickr


Revive I-5 elevated view from Columbia Center by SounderBruce, on Flickr


----------



## Penn's Woods

As of Sunday afternoon, there is at least one 295 marker in Pennsylvania. A mile or so of mileposts have been switched over to 295 at about (old) mile 48 and there’s a route marker in that stretch. And the direction panel is West; I would have expected South.
More importantly, I’m no expert in road construction, but the ramp from 95 north to 276 east looks just about done.


----------



## Tom 958

Per GDOT's Facebook page on June 5, there's been a huge change in the layout of the 285-400 interchange. The previous versions I've seen had the 400 mainline passing over 285 and the eastbound 285 to northbound 400 ramp passing under the existing bridge, but this version has the 400 mainline going under 285, which will require replacement of the existing bridge. 😲 I'm wondering whether the other legacy 285 bridges over Glenridge and Peachtree Dunwoody will be replaced as well. I've previously expressed amazement that the design of this project retained so many of the existing bridges. However, the design was done before last year's funding increase. Perhaps there's been a rethink 













ChrisZwolle said:


> A render of the I-285 / GA-400 interchange.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Houston*

I-610 at US 290 in Houston, Texas. The US 290 upgrade is nearing completion.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-95 express lanes, Maryland*

* HOGAN ADMINISTRATION ADDS $890 MILLION TO EXTEND I-95 EXPRESS TOLL LANES TO HARFORD COUNTY *

The Hogan Administration announced today the investment of an additional $890 million to extend the northbound I-95 Express Toll Lanes (ETL). The expanded $1.1 billion project will now provide two ETLs for more than 10 miles from north of MD 43 in Baltimore County to north of MD 24 in Harford County.

The Maryland Transportation Authority (MDTA) will begin the expanded $1.1 billion project in early 2019. 

The I-95 interchanges at MD 152 and MD 24 also will be reconstructed to provide access from the northbound ETL. Reconstruction of the MD 152 interchange includes associated park-and-ride. Reconstruction of the MD 24 interchange includes a two-lane flyover ramp toward Bel Air, alleviating congestion for motorists exiting I-95 to MD 24 and MD 924. 

The original $210 million project was slated to provide a 7.75 mile, single-lane extension from north of MD 43 to MD 24. Public meetings were held in February 2018.​
Condensed from the press release: http://mdta.maryland.gov/blog-categ...ion-adds-890-million-extend-i-95-express-toll


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## Penn's Woods

Signage conversion, including mileposts, on old 95/new 295 in Pennsylvania is completed on the southbound (now westbound) side. Northbound, exits 44 and 46 are still posted with their old numbers; 49 and 51 are 8 and 10.
(Drove it southbound today; looked across to see the northbound signs, but didn’t try to see the northbound mileposts.)


----------



## Ale92MilanoSpA_

*US 101*

Driving through California (United States) from San Francisco to San Mateo 21.01.2018 Timelapse x4


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-95 Richmond, Virginia*

I-95 under construction and present-day, in Richmond, Virginia.


I-95Main st station by Virginia Department of Transportation, on Flickr

I-395:


53-408ShirleyHwy by Virginia Department of Transportation, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-35 Laredo, Texas*

There are plans to widen a 24 mile section of I-35 north from Lared to six lanes, as well as an expansion of the I-35 / I-69W interchange. Laredo is the highest freight volume port of entry between the United States and Mexico, with a 6% annual growth. 










The overall construction estimate for the proposed work along this 24-mile corridor is well over $460 Million, all of which is not funded; however, there is currently $234 Million of funding identified for several phases of work on this corridor.​


----------



## sonysnob

Some photos of Interstate 85 northeast of Atlanta:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/GA/I/85/I85_GA_cl_105_south_w_Sep16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/GA/I/85/I85_GA_cl_105_south_SB_w_Sep16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/GA/I/85/I85_GA_cl_105_north_NB_w_Sep16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/GA/I/85/I85_GA_cl_105_north_NB_t_Sep16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/GA/I/85/I85_GA_cl_105_north_SB_t_Sep16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/GA/I/85/I85_GA_dv_105-5_north_Sep16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/GA/I/85/I85_GA_dv_105-8_north_Sep16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/GA/I/85/I85_GA_dv_106_north_Sep16_24x16.jpg


----------



## wgerman

Impressive, 6 free lanes in each direction.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

And 246,000 vehicles per day: http://trafficserver.transmetric.com/gdot-prod/tcdb.jsp?siteid=1350296

Which is not extremely high for that lane count. Traffic merges onto 12 through lanes (5 GP and 1 EL in each direction).


----------



## peterkif

wgerman said:


> Impressive, 6 free lanes in each direction.


7 lanes with carpool, not 6 lol


----------



## wgerman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyJBOv-vLmc

I-35W construction in Ft. Worth. July update.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-275 Tampa Bay*

The Florida Department of Transportation has issued a request for proposals to replace an aging span of the Howard Frankland Bridge of I-275 near Tampa. The replacement is estimated at $ 814 million.

>>> https://www.bizjournals.com/tampaba...ard-814m-contact-for-design-build-of-the.html

It is not just a bridge replacement, but also a capacity expansion to add express lanes to I-275.










>>> http://www.tampabaynext.com/projects/howard-frankland-bridge/


----------



## SounderBruce

It's good that they're considering the weight of rail transit, though it would probably be more practical to run BRT service in the Tampa area.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Bridge condition in the United States:


----------



## xzmattzx

Wow, looks like a lot of states need to learn something from Texas.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I assume the number of bridges refers to state-owned bridges. Texas owns a huge network of Interstate Highways, US Highways, State Highways and Farm to Market Roads. In addition, they have several large metropolitan areas with a huge number of bridges on the freeway system. 

The low percentage of poor bridges partially results from the extensive urban freeway reconstructions since the 1980s. In Houston almost no freeway has not been rebuilt since 1980. So unlike other places they don't have a large amount of deficient 1950s-1960s urban infrastructure. 

On the other hand their FM road system has not been reconstructed to such an extent, and earlier reports say that the FM road system was overburdened in some areas due to shale oil production, with much more trucks using them than they were designed for. A single oil well requires over a thousand truckloads.


----------



## Kanadzie

I also wonder about the size/scope of those bridges. Texas has some huge flyovers at interchanges, but New York has all the NYC bridges (!) though maybe they are not counted in this chart by being owned by the Port Authority?


----------



## browntown

Kanadzie said:


> I also wonder about the size/scope of those bridges. Texas has some huge flyovers at interchanges, but New York has all the NYC bridges (!) though maybe they are not counted in this chart by being owned by the Port Authority?


This is just total number of bridges, so the Verrazano Narrows Bridge is counted as no more than just a highway overpass. NYC actually has incredibly few bridges for its population, it just has a fer very large ones.


----------



## eomer

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Florida Department of Transportation has issued a request for proposals to replace an aging span of the Howard Frankland Bridge of I-275 near Tampa. The replacement is estimated at $ 814 million.


Mau I suggest to FDT to consider building railways track instead of the 2 express lanes ?


----------



## Innsertnamehere

texas also doesn't have to deal with salt degrading the structures like a lot of more northern states. It means bridges last longer and take more time to degrade.

And yes, I bet their average bridge age is much lower. Much of texas is much newer than most of the country - which means that most bridges have had less time to degrade.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-84 Waterbury, Connecticut*

*Gov. Malloy Announces Imminent Completion of I-84 Widening Project in Waterbury*

*Eastbound Lanes to Open This Week, Westbound Lanes in Mid-September*

Governor Dannel P. Malloy today announced the imminent completion of the I-84 widening project in Waterbury, with three eastbound lanes opening this week, and the three westbound lanes opening by mid-September – one year early.

The $330 million project involves the addition of a third travel lane and full width shoulders in each direction and safety improvements to a 2.7-mile segment of I-84 from Washington Street, east to Pierpont Road in Waterbury.​
Full press release: https://portal.ct.gov/Office-of-the...mpletion-of-I84-Widening-Project-in-Waterbury

Although a short project in terms of mileage, it had a high cost (over $ 100 million per mile). They significantly altered the geometry of I-84, moving it 300 feet to the south at the Harpers Ferry Road interchange, as well as improved curvature elsewhere.


----------



## Xusein

That part of I-84 was always a mess, so this is long overdue.


----------



## sonysnob

A couple of views of Interstate 15 north of San Diego:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/15/I15_CA_cl_25_south_C_Apr16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/15/I15_CA_cl_25_south_SB_Aug16_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/CA/I/15/I15_CA_cl_25_north_SB_Aug16_24x16.jpg


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ 208,000 vehicles per day on that location. I-15 maxes out at 305,000 vehicles near Route 163.


----------



## Kanadzie

I really liked San Diego. It looks a nice place to live 

Route 163 into the downtown area is really rather beautiful as it approaches too, big trees, etc.


----------



## Abhishek901

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ 208,000 vehicles per day on that location. I-15 maxes out at 305,000 vehicles near Route 163.


16 lanes for just 208,000 vehicles?


----------



## xzmattzx

US Route 15 in Pennsylvania between the New York border and Williamsport has its exited numbered and has mile markers along it. It looks like it's closer to being signed as I-99. Any timetable on when that will become official?


----------



## sonysnob

^ It has always seemed to me that Pennsylvania has been waiting for the US-220 gap to be upgraded to a full freeway before it signs the US-15 portion of I-99 as such. I know the western interchange with I-80 is going to be upgraded in the next few years, but there is still a lot of work to do on US-220, particularly on the section immediately west of Williamsport.

Though, that's all just my own conjecture, so I could be entirely wrong on that.


----------



## xzmattzx

Understandable, for sure, but with I-99 signed in New York, then arbitrarily ending at the Pennsylvania border, I don't see the reason why I-99 can't be signed down to Williamsport, and just leave the gap from Williamsport to I-80 unsigned for now.


----------



## sonysnob

The one thing that does kind of surprise me about US-99 is that there aren't any trailblazers (TO-99 signs) to direct traffic between the disconnected gap. It seems that signing the missing sections of US-220 and US-15 as TO-99 might not be a bad interim solution.

The disconnected segments of I-69 and I-49 don't seem to be signed with trailblazers either, which has always seemed like an oversight to me.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Abhishek901 said:


> 16 lanes for just 208,000 vehicles?


14 through lanes. 

It's the reason why San Diego ranks 11th in the U.S. for traffic congestion, the San Diego freeway network is a bit more accommodating for large traffic volumes than Los Angeles and San Francisco (which are ranked #1 and #2).

On the world scale, San Diego ranks as the #102 most congested large city.

https://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/trafficindex/list?citySize=LARGE&continent=NA&country=US


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 10 in Texas*

Plans are in various stages of development to expand I-10 from San Antonio to Houston to a six lane freeway.

These blue sections are currently under study or in public consultation. The most concrete expansion is close to Houston, which starts this year.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-87 Tappan Zee Bridge*

The second span of the Tappan Zee Bridge north of New York City will open to traffic this coming night.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-75 / I-575 "Northwest Corridor", Atlanta, Georgia*

The "Northwest Corridor" reversible toll lanes along I-75 and I-575 in the Atlanta suburbs will enter operations tomorrow, September 8. The reversible lanes stretch for 30 miles.


----------



## sonysnob

Some photos of I-75's other express toll lanes, to the south of Atlanta:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/GA/I/75/I75_GA_dv_218_north_Nov17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/GA/I/75/I75_GA_dv_218-25_north_Nov17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/GA/I/75/I75_GA_dv_218-6_north_Nov17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/GA/I/75/I75_GA_dv_219_north_Nov17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/GA/I/75/I75_GA_cl_221_south_w_Nov17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/GA/I/75/I75_GA_cl_221_south_t_Nov17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/GA/I/75/I75_GA_cl_221_north_NB_Nov17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/GA/I/75/I75_GA_cl_224_south_w_Nov17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/GA/I/75/I75_GA_cl_224_south_t_Nov17_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/GA/I/75/I75_GA_cl_224_north_c_Nov17_24x16.jpg


----------



## SounderBruce

The way it weaves in and out of the median is reminiscent of an elevated light rail guideway. Perhaps in an alternate history this would have been a MARTA extension.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-87 Tappan Zee Bridge*

The Tappan Zee Bridge second span did not open as scheduled, over concerns that the remains of the old bridge could collapse. 

An opening was then announced for Wednesday morning, but it is weather-dependent.










https://lohud.com/story/news/local/rockland/2018/09/10/cuomo-bridge-opening-weather/1261063002/


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*contraflow*

I-26 in South Carolina is now in contraflow operations in anticipation of Hurricane Florence. All lanes are westbound, away from the coast, from Charleston to Columbia.

Meanhwile NCDOT has said they won't enable contraflow on I-40 out of Wilmington. The Charleston metro area is larger though.


----------



## FM 2258

ChrisZwolle said:


> Plans are in various stages of development to expand I-10 from San Antonio to Houston to a six lane freeway.
> 
> These blue sections are currently under study or in public consultation. The most concrete expansion is close to Houston, which starts this year.


I'm going to miss the old 2-lane freeway configuration on Interstate 10. I love the look of the old-school Interstate with 2 lanes on each side and grass median.


----------



## geogregor

FM 2258 said:


> I'm going to miss the old 2-lane freeway configuration on Interstate 10. I love the look of the old-school Interstate with 2 lanes on each side and grass median.


Yes, but they are pain to drive, especially with American excellent lane discipline


----------



## Tom 958

sonysnob said:


> Some photos of I-75's other express toll lanes, to the south of Atlanta:


Look closely at this photo and you'll see a traffic signal. There's no intersection there: it's just for speed control, to keep people from Evel Kneiveling that ramp, and it's bee there since Day One. I thought that it stayed red until someone approached it and prompted it to turn green, but a friend made a video that showed it turning red and stopping him. I would be so pist! Pay a toll, then force him to stop for nothing? They should waive the toll, or credit his account for a dollar!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*North Carolina*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1041706379055194114


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-35, Oklahoma*

I-35 north of Perry, Oklahoma.

Airport Road. That sounds like an important exit. But it ends on a gravel road! :lol:





































Inspired by a reference on AA Roads.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

Check out that old school 35 infrastructure. I remember when all the overpass and underpass bridges on 35 looked like that in Dallas and Ellis counties.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Indiana*

*Gov. Holcomb outlines Next Level Connections program*

Gov. Eric J. Holcomb today announced his infrastructure agenda plan for 2019, including a new $1 billion investment in infrastructure projects. The Next Level Connections program will expand broadband services in rural Indiana, grow the state’s systems of trails, create more nonstop international flights, and move up the completion of major highway projects. The state also will continue to pursue building a new fourth water port at Lawrenceburg and expansion of rail projects in northwest Indiana.

*Complete major highway projects*
o Accelerate completion of I-69 Section 6 from 2027 to 2024 ($600 million)
o Add new interchanges on U.S. 31 between South Bend and Indianapolis and expand the number of projects that will be completed on U.S. 20 and 30 through 2023 ($190 million)
o Focus INDOT resources to clean up the state’s highways

*Road construction*
 $600 million to accelerate the completion of I-69 Section 6
o Move up completion from 2027 to 2024
o Eliminates need for debt financing over many years
 $190 million for improvements to U.S. 20 and 30 and new interchanges on U.S. 31
o Increase the number of projects on U.S. 20 and U.S. 30 that will be completed through 2023
 Projects include resurfacing, bridge improvements, new interchanges
o Adds new U.S. 31 interchanges at State Road 18 in southern Miami County, Business 31 in Peru, and State Road 10 in Argos; 236th Street at the Hamilton/Tipton county lines is already being planned
 These four interchanges will reduce the number stoplights on U.S. 31 from Indianapolis to South Bend to two
 The governor’s goal is to remove remaining stoplights and railroad crossings and make U.S. 31 a free-flow road​
Full press release & fact sheets: https://www.in.gov/gov/nextlevelconnections.htm


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Milwaukee*

Interesting interchange. I-43/894 and 27th Street in Milwaukee. It was recently reconstructed from a diamond interchange with one tight loop ramp.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-4 Orlando, Florida*

The I-4 Ultimate project in Orlando, Florida.


----------



## General Maximus

^^

Now that the I-95 gap is closed, they have now removed those signs on each end of the former gap. To most, they were not making any sense at all.



> I wonder how many 10s of thousands of tourists got lost after seeing that "END I-95" sign?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-95, North Carolina*

* I-95 Widening Set to Begin Next Year *

The immense task of doubling the number of lanes on Interstate 95 in North Carolina begins next year, and the public is invited to meetings this month in Cumberland and Johnston counties to review the accelerated schedule and preliminary design maps.

The N.C. Department of Transportation plans to award a contract next spring to a design and construction team that will widen I-95 from four lanes to eight lanes between exit 56 (Eastover) in Cumberland County and exit 71 (Long Branch Road) in Harnett County. Then, in 2020, the department is scheduled to award another contract to further expand the freeway between exit 71 and exit 81 in Benson where I-95 and Interstate 40 converge.

In all, 25 miles will be widened from four lanes to eight lanes. Additionally, at least six interchanges and overpasses will be rebuilt with new bridges that will be taller and longer. The combined projects are estimated to cost more than $700 million in construction and land acquisition.

The projects will mark the state’s first substantial upgrade of I-95, which was built beginning in the 1950s under President Dwight Eisenhower.​
Full press release: https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2018/2018-10-01-i-95-widening-set-to-begin.aspx


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-278 Verrazzano-Narrows Bridge*

*Governor Cuomo Signs Legislation to Correct the Spelling of the Verrazzano-Narrows Bridge *

Governor Andrew M. Cuomo today signed legislation (S.9089/A.2963-B) to correct the spelling of the Verrazzano-Narrows Bridge. The Verrazzano-Narrows Bridge, named after the Italian explorer Giovanni da Verrazzano, connects the New York City boroughs of Brooklyn and Staten Island. The name of this bridge has been spelled incorrectly for several decades, and this legislation will correct the spelling of the Verrazzano-Narrows bridge in a number of respective state statutes by adding the missing "z" to the name.

"The Verrazzano Bridge is a vital transportation artery for millions of Staten Island and Brooklyn residents," Governor Cuomo said. "We are correcting this decades-old misspelling out of respect to the legacy of the explorer and to New York's heritage."​
Full press release: https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/go...on-correct-spelling-verrazzano-narrows-bridge


----------



## g.spinoza

Grazie, Governor!


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ and worse air, you win some and lose some :lol:

the mountains in LA give rise to some really nice city parks though.


----------



## Jschmuck

A unique SPUI being constructed under I-94 in Fargo, ND;










http://nddotfargo.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/birds_eye_2017.jpg

http://nddotfargo.com/projects/?id=94-sheyenne-street-interchange-improvement-project


----------



## hoosier

The latest section of the Interstate 69 extension in Indiana is “substantially complete.” Work on the final leg from Martinsville to I-465 in indianapolis will start next year and go through 2024.

https://indianapublicmedia.org/news/indot-i-69-section-5-is-substantially-complete.php


----------



## zaphod

Tom 958 said:


> To some extent, but there's still quite a lot of original freeway stuff from the '50's there.


Like 225, and it's awful. Driving with all those trucks hauling you don't want to know it makes you feel like even the smallest error will result in something that would make Michael Bay jealous.

I'm trying to mentally catalog what freeways in Houston are still retro style. What I mean by retro - look at I-35 in central Austin. I don't think 45N has been upgraded in appreciable way in my lifetime but it was always a big road.

I feel like most of them have been continuously upgraded and widened throughout their entire existence or radically upgraded in the past few years. Like the ship of theseus, I don't think any of them are recognizably historic despite their age.



triodegradable said:


> Yep, I lived in Conroe for almost 1 1/2 year just for work and they builT a bunch of stuffS. I used to live right next to 105 and 336 Loop next to the big and new HEB.


I know exactly where that is 

I think Conroe counts as being the fastest growing "city" because unlike the surrounding areas it is actually is one. And has a history of being a larger town and hub of the area long before the suburbs existed.

It has a lot of nice traits, like an old downtown, public parks, and a local government that has the authority to keep up older neighborhoods.


----------



## triodegradable

zaphod said:


> Like 225, and it's awful. Driving with all those trucks hauling you don't want to know it makes you feel like even the smallest error will result in something that would make Michael Bay jealous.
> 
> I'm trying to mentally catalog what freeways in Houston are still retro style. What I mean by retro - look at I-35 in central Austin. I don't think 45N has been upgraded in appreciable way in my lifetime but it was always a big road.
> 
> I feel like most of them have been continuously upgraded and widened throughout their entire existence or radically upgraded in the past few years. Like the ship of theseus, I don't think any of them are recognizably historic despite their age.
> 
> 
> 
> I know exactly where that is
> 
> I think Conroe counts as being the fastest growing "city" because unlike the surrounding areas it is actually is one. And has a history of being a larger town and hub of the area long before the suburbs existed.
> 
> It has a lot of nice traits, like an old downtown, public parks, and a local government that has the authority to keep up older neighborhoods.


Yeah I loved it over there in fact I was going to buy a lil piece of land around the lake but after the flooding last year I decided not to do that


----------



## General Maximus

Interstate 95 north approaching I-93/US 1/MA 128 outside Boston, Massachusetts. The loop ramp was not intended to carry I-95 traffic as I-95 was supposed to continue north on a freeway to Downtown Boston on a freeway proposal that was later cancelled.










AA Roads


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-75 / I-85 Downtown Connector, Atlanta,GA*

I looked at some traffic data and the "Downtown Connector" in Atlanta is now the busiest road in the United States.

According to the Georgia Department of Transportation, the 2016 AADT at North Avenue was 404,000 vehicles per day.

Back in 2007, the highest count on this freeway was 290,000. That means that traffic grew by ~25% (114,000) in just 10 years. 

This comes on the back of breakneck population growth, the Atlanta metropolitan area grew by 1.6 million people since 2000 alone. Since virtually no new freeways were built to accommodate that population growth, it ends up on the existing system. 

The existing system is being expanded but there are only so many lanes you can add to an existing corridor. The I-75 and I-85 corridors are already very wide. Atlanta's freeway system was designed in the 1950s and 1960s, when the area had only 1 - 1.4 million people. It has nearly 6 million today.


----------



## Kanadzie

General Maximus said:


> Interstate 95 north approaching I-93/US 1/MA 128 outside Boston, Massachusetts. The loop ramp was not intended to carry I-95 traffic as I-95 was supposed to continue north on a freeway to Downtown Boston on a freeway proposal that was later cancelled.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AA Roads


This diagrammatic loop sign looks really really Russian :lol:


----------



## Abhishek901

ChrisZwolle said:


> I looked at some traffic data and the "Downtown Connector" in Atlanta is now the busiest road in the United States.
> 
> According to the Georgia Department of Transportation, the 2016 AADT at North Avenue was 404,000 vehicles per day.


So now there are 3 highways in North America with more than 400,000 AADT. That all of those are severely congested is no surprise.


----------



## FM 2258

^^

Time to double-deck those highways, don't think they can be widened anymore. 


I've had this idea where cities could implement dedicated lanes for traffic that won't be stopping in the city. I imagine two lanes in the center of the freeway that do not have an exit for 10-25 miles as it goes through the city. I'd be interested to see if an idea like this would work.


----------



## Abhishek901

It might be better off to spend that money on public transit than double decking the highways. The new deck will cost several times more than constructing a highway at grade. 

Not having an exit for long distance will help speed up the traffic but could also mean huge jams if there is an accident.


----------



## SounderBruce

FM 2258 said:


> ^^
> 
> Time to double-deck those highways, don't think they can be widened anymore.
> 
> 
> I've had this idea where cities could implement dedicated lanes for traffic that won't be stopping in the city. I imagine two lanes in the center of the freeway that do not have an exit for 10-25 miles as it goes through the city. I'd be interested to see if an idea like this would work.


These are called express lanes and are fairly common. Seattle's reversible system on I-5 (and formerly I-90) were famously implemented in the 1960s/1990s and worked pretty well until the current population boom.

Double-decking freeways, especially in the middle of the urban jungle, is a mistake that other cities shouldn't pursue. Trust us on this.


----------



## g.spinoza

FM 2258 said:


> ^^
> 
> Time to double-deck those highways, don't think they can be widened anymore.
> 
> 
> I've had this idea where cities could implement dedicated lanes for traffic that won't be stopping in the city. I imagine two lanes in the center of the freeway that do not have an exit for 10-25 miles as it goes through the city. I'd be interested to see if an idea like this would work.


Things like these are implemented in Europe since many years. Bypasses of Montpellier, France and Bologna, Italy come to mind.


----------



## keokiracer

Abhishek901 said:


> So now there are 3 highways in North America with more than 400,000 AADT. That all of those are severely congested is no surprise.


I am only aware of 2, whats the 3rd one besides the 401 in Toronto and the Downtown Connector in Atlanta?


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ I-405?


----------



## keokiracer

^^ That peaked at 378k afaik
https://www.wegenwiki.nl/Drukste_snelwegen_ter_wereld


----------



## sonysnob

keokiracer said:


> I am only aware of 2, whats the 3rd one besides the 401 in Toronto and the Downtown Connector in Atlanta?


I think it's the 427 on the west side of Toronto.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes the 427 registered 400,700 vehicles per day in 2016.


----------



## keokiracer

sonysnob said:


> I think it's the 427 on the west side of Toronto.





ChrisZwolle said:


> Yes the 427 registered 400,700 vehicles per day in 2016.


kay: 
Added 


keokiracer said:


> https://www.wegenwiki.nl/Drukste_snelwegen_ter_wereld


----------



## Innsertnamehere

The 427 actually isn't that congested, given its traffic counts. It obviously backs up during rush hour but generally isn't actually all that bad.


----------



## Airforceguy

This certainly comes as a surprise to me and I'm sure the small businesses along Washington Rd wouldn't like it. But considering the power that the club wields, I'm sure that can pull off.



> The bombshell news that has recently come out is the National’s desire to have its very own exit off I-20 straight onto the Augusta National, no need to pass go. The idea that has been floated would have Masters guests taking the Augusta National exit just before the Washington Road exit and run them parallel to Boy Scout Road, then follow the Rae’s Creek bed to their parking lot.
> 
> While the Riverwatch exit does lead to the course, there are many issues with the configuration of the exit and the traffic flow on I-20. Also, the National doesn’t control the cars until they break Washington Road, and that is an expensive and potentially dangerous pedestrian problem.
> 
> With cars exiting the interstate directly onto Augusta National property, the reduction in labor costs for the hundreds of people-the thousands of man hours-and cars on the streets surrounding the Augusta National, would be greatly reduced.
> 
> Insiders speculate that the investment would pay off in the long term.
> 
> What isn’t as clear is the economic impact the new route would have on Augusta’s small businesses who benefit from all the traffic and visitors. Word is, Augusta National will act sooner rather than later.
> 
> Remember, this is the same organization that was granted the right to reroute a public road them damn selves, and did it ahead of schedule and under budget.
> 
> As the National themselves state, “Augusta National Golf Club is a marathon, not a sprint, and can calibrate appropriately.”
> 
> The wealth, affluence and power is not going anywhere anytime soon. Well, ever actually.
> 
> So get ready Augusta. You are certain to be astonished by the quiet forceful power of the Augusta National in the not too distant future.


Exit Augusta National - Metro Spirit


----------



## xzmattzx

That's not an exit, that sounds like a short expressway. Augusta National isn't that close to I-20.


----------



## mgk920

About a decade ago, WisDOT created a bit of a controversy when they built a 'special events only' half-interchange (NB off/SB on) with a local side road (Rowe Rd) on I-43 for the convenience of fans going to the 'major' golf tournaments (ie, the PGA) that are periodically held at the Whistling Straits golf course, located on the Lake Michigan shoreline between Sheboygan and Manitowoc, WI.

Now, granted, Whistling Straits is a 'daily fee' (privately owned but open to the public) course and not a beyond exclusive private country club, but I can see the parallels for handling the event-driven traffic.

https://goo.gl/maps/KkLTjFNCRsS2

Mike


----------



## General Maximus

This particular stretch of the I-80 in Wyoming is known as "the Highway to Heaven".


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice painting


----------



## Highway89

Is that the Three Sisters mountain range near Evanston?

The I-80 along the salt flats of western Utah also features quite a long (though _flat_) straight: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8083814,-113.4913508,55999m/data=!3m1!1e3


----------



## Kanadzie

I-80 has a lot of long straight more or less flat sections

even in Pennsylvania which is practically Swiss in its geography (well... flat for PA... but still you can drive very very fast)


----------



## mgk920

Highway89 said:


> Is that the Three Sisters mountain range near Evanston?
> 
> The I-80 along the salt flats of western Utah also features quite a long (though _flat_) straight: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8083814,-113.4913508,55999m/data=!3m1!1e3


That image is from somewhere in Wyoming.

Mike


----------



## Highway89




----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 165, Kentucky*

The first signs have been put up for Interstate 165 in Kentucky. It applies Interstate status to the William H. Natcher Parkway between Bowling Green and Owensboro.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-40 Business, Winston-Salem, North Carolina*

The business route of I-40 through Winston-Salem, North Carolina is being reconstructed. They have closed the freeway and tore it down to replace it much faster than with a traditional approach.


BOT 2019.03.06Winston-SalemTour_ (67 of 95) by NCDOTcommunications, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There is major flooding in southwest Iowa, especially near the Missouri River.

This is I-680 north of Omaha.









This is I-29 north of Council Bluffs









It is reported that a very long stretch of I-29 is closed throughout southwest Iowa and into northwest Missouri.


----------



## sonysnob

Interstate 10, Phoenix, Arizona:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/AZ/I/10/I10_AZ_dv_125-5_west_Apr18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/AZ/I/10/I10_AZ_dv_124-5_west_Apr18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/AZ/I/10/I10_AZ_dv_124-25_west_Apr18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/AZ/I/10/I10_AZ_dv_124-15_west_Apr18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/AZ/I/10/I10_AZ_dv_124-1_west_Apr18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/AZ/I/10/I10_AZ_dv_124-05_west_Apr18_24x16.jpg

And one from 2013, when the Loop 303 interchange was still under construction:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/AZ/I/10/I10_AZ_dv_125_west_Mar13_24x16.jpg


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Phoenix freeway system looks much nicer than that of Los Angeles. Asphalt vs. concrete.


----------



## dragante

^^ Which one is cheaper?


----------



## sonysnob

dragante said:


> ^^ Which one is cheaper?


In this case, concrete is probably cheaper. Roads in Arizona use a concrete base with a thin overlay of rubberized asphalt as a wearing surface. They could just as easily not use their rubberized asphalt overlay and just leave their roads surface in concrete.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Concrete is more expensive to build, but if you don't care about noise, drainage capabilities or a smooth road surface after 10+ years, concrete is cheaper in the long run.

Though asphalt is much easier to maintain. You don't need to close lanes for months, most asphalt repairs can be done overnight. 

Almost all toll road operators in Europe have shifted from concrete to asphalt. Reason: better availability of capacity / less traffic disruptions and more even replacement cost per year. Concrete replacement cycles have very high cost compared to asphalt, but they occur less often.


----------



## dragante

Cool, thanks a lot guys!


----------



## Kanadzie

I just did a ~5000 km trip in southeastern USA

I noticed, a lot of people seemed to have just abandoned their cars on the side of the Interstate highway. Often with destroyed tyre and missing license plates.

It was odd, never saw that in other states or countries (on motorway), but in say, Alabama, Mississippi or Tennessee it seemed every 10 km there was a car left on the side of the road. Is it considered legal to park there, and the police just have the car towed away after a month or the like (a lot had some kind of pink stripe or ribbon on them, maybe to indicate that the car was noticed by a patrol...)?

It was particularly hard as there is a car similar to mine sitting probably still today on I-75 just in northern Cinncinnati and I wish I could go back and steal parts


----------



## sonysnob

That's something that I have really noticed before on my travels as well. I've never really understood it either. Abandoned vehicles on Metro Detroit freeways is pretty common as well.

You never see vehicles abandoned like that on a freeway in Ontario or Quebec.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ like I learned as a young 16 year old running out of gas on the 40 :lol:

I went walking to a station and came back, no car (!)
I ended up walking home and I had my dad pissed-off and car there on the driveway :lol:
apparently police called him and had it towed... my legs and feet were so sore and aching, it was so many kilometres, took whole day...


----------



## sonysnob

yeah, one of those life lessons... I had a few long walks in my youth as well.

Turns out gas costs the same amount whether you are filling the top or the bottom of the tank. Who knew?


----------



## xzmattzx

You see cars abandoned on the side of the road because of two things: either people can't afford a tow truck, and/or people are careless or lazy with their possessions, including very expensive ones like vehicles. It's more the latter than the former; I think it's insane to leave it on a highway for any stretch of time, because if someone crashes into it, you are liable for their injuries or life, and your car will get totaled. But some people don't know how to think logically, and just leave it there to take care of days or weeks later.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ oh yeah, but what I mean is, in say, New York, the police would order a tow truck to take the car away if it was abandoned within a few hours at most. But these cars had clearly been there for days.


----------



## Stuck in Bama

Took this pic while in downtown Birmimgham of the I-20/59 viduct construction. Completion date: early to mid 2020


----------



## FM 2258

Kanadzie said:


> I just did a ~5000 km trip in southeastern USA
> 
> I noticed, a lot of people seemed to have just abandoned their cars on the side of the Interstate highway. Often with destroyed tyre and missing license plates.
> 
> It was odd, never saw that in other states or countries (on motorway), but in say, Alabama, Mississippi or Tennessee it seemed every 10 km there was a car left on the side of the road. Is it considered legal to park there, and the police just have the car towed away after a month or the like (a lot had some kind of pink stripe or ribbon on them, maybe to indicate that the car was noticed by a patrol...)?
> 
> It was particularly hard as there is a car similar to mine sitting probably still today on I-75 just in northern Cinncinnati and I wish I could go back and steal parts


I've noticed this on Interstates yet never gave much deep thought to it. I've broken down on the Interstate before and have always found a way to bring my car home. I see cars parked on the freeway with those fluorescent stickers and wonder what the hell happened to the owner. 

Another thing I noticed on a very early morning drive between Dallas and Austin is 18-wheelers parked at the sides of exit and entrance ramps. Whenever I leave Texas I see no parking signs on exit and entrance ramps yet do not see those signs in Texas. I guess this is why. Some states do not want 18-wheelers parking on the ramps to sleep.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The shoulder of a freeway is not a safe place to park a car, it should be towed immediately if it is unattended. In some areas running out of gas is actually something you could be fined for.


----------



## brewerfan386

The fracture critical I-535 bridge is FINALLY on the docket for replacement.


> *Blatnik replacement officially scheduled for 2028*
> By Brady Slater on Mar 14, 2019 at 7:54 p.m.





> The "high bridge" between Duluth and Superior is officially on the clock for replacement.
> 
> The Blatnik Bridge was incorporated into a new 10-year plan by the Minnesota Department of Transportation, which is targeting replacement for 2028 at a cost share between $170 million and $230 million. The state of Wisconsin will be on the hook for the other half of the price tag, setting the current replacement cost at up to $460 million.





> "We can't ignore it," district engineer Duane Hill said in 2017. "Every time we do an inspection we have to go back and do calculations to determine, 'Do we still have the capacity?' "





> "The proper way to do this will be to start with every possible idea and narrow it down," Hill said.
> 
> He half-jokingly referred to the idea that even a tunnel would be among the early replacement considerations — though one unlikely to be cost-effective, Hill admitted.


 https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/n...blatnik-replacement-officially-scheduled-2028


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-24 / I-75 Chattanooga, Tennessee*

A beam collapsed on an overpass that carries I-75 southbound over I-24 westbound in Chattanooga, Tennessee.


----------



## dragante

^^ That structure seems old but not too much. From the 80's probably?. I would say that bad maintenance is the root cause.


----------



## sonysnob

Interstate 35E at the Sam Rayburn Tollway interchange in Dallas, Fort Worth, TX:


















http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/TX/I/35E/I35E_cl_447-75_south_NBfront_Apr18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/TX/I/35E/I35E_cl_447-75_south_c_Apr18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/TX/I/35E/I35E_cl_447-75_south_c_t_Apr18_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/TX/I/35E/I35E_cl_447-75_north_c_Apr18_24x16.jpg


----------



## Kanadzie

Texas rocks


----------



## mgk920

ChrisZwolle said:


> A beam collapsed on an overpass that carries I-75 southbound over I-24 westbound in Chattanooga, Tennessee.


That looks almost like it was hit.

Mike


----------



## Luki_SL

^^So where is the car that hit it?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

sonysnob said:


> Interstate 35E at the Sam Rayburn Tollway interchange in Dallas, Fort Worth, TX:


These photos show the crooked design of I-35E that people over on AA Roads complained about. The lanes are not straight at all, they move left and right all over the place. This also showed in your video.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

dragante said:


> ^^ That structure seems old but not too much. From the 80's probably?. I would say that bad maintenance is the root cause.


1959 apparently

Quite a bit of info about it on the local news
https://www.wrcbtv.com/story/40230422/crash-causes-partial-collapse-of-i75-overpass-above-i24-wb


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They were actually already planning to reconstruct the interchange.

This press release was from December 21, 2018:

*TDOT Awards I-75/I-24 Interchange Modification Design-Build Project in Hamilton County*

The Tennessee Department of Transportation has awarded the contract for the I‑75/I‑24 interchange modification design-build project. The low bid of $132,644,398.00 was submitted by C.W. Matthews Contracting Co., Inc. The winning design-build proposal will complete design and construction of this project in less than three years.

Over the next several months, the design-builder for the I-75/I-24 interchange modification project will complete the design of the project and acquire necessary permits. In the spring of 2019, the design-builder will begin geotechnical improvements to the project area with construction expected to begin in the late fall of 2019. Once construction begins, every effort will be made to minimize impacts to drivers.​
>> https://www.tn.gov/content/tn/tdot/...-design-build-project-in-hamilton-county.html

Project website: https://www.tn.gov/tdot/projects/region-2/i-75-interchange-at-i-24.html


----------



## browntown

Luki_SL said:


> ^^So where is the car that hit it?


Apparently it made it through, but the damage was already done it it collapsed soon after.


----------



## weava

ChrisZwolle said:


> A 'sign unveiling ceremony' in Dexter, Missouri.


so Arkansas has 2 incomplete interstate connections to Missouri. 

They need to finish I-29 to the Missouri border first IMO.

Also US60 from Poplar Bluff to Springfield wouldn't be a huge upgrade to make it an interstate. it's already a 4 lane divided highway except in the town of Mountain View which is the only segment which would need a bypass.


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-29, North Dakota*

The North Dakota Department of Transportation is attempting to keep I-29 open from Grand Forks to the Canadian border, using inflatable barriers. There is significant flooding in the Red River area due to rapid snowmelt.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

I imagine the fatality difference results from a variety of factors. My guesses:

1. The US has a lot less alternatives to driving. Most of urban Canada has at least passable urban transit (even if it is only buses) and easy access to cabs and ubers. The US is much less accessible by transit on average, with the vast majority of the US living in either exurban areas or urban areas with near unusable transit. This means that if people are drinking they are likely more likely to get behind the wheel.

2. Road design is not as good, as outlined by other posters. This applies to both freeways and local roads - I find american local roads tend to be a lot windier, more blind corners, etc. on average than many Canadian roads. Intersections tend to be a lot more spartan in design with worse overall geometry, freeways feature minimal merge ramps and much sharper corners, commercial main streets feature far more direct road accesses from shopping plazas on average creating more conflict points, etc.

3. I imagine that US average mileage per person is higher than Canada, given Canada's higher urbanization rate, denser cities, and better public transit. I believe that about 12% of Canadians commute to work without the use of a vehicle, while that is only around 5% in the US, primarily concentrated in a few cities that have usable public transit.

4. Larger vehicles. The US tends to buy slightly larger vehicles on average than Canada - meaning that it is easier to get crushed by a large mass of truck. The forces involved in collisions are a lot more intense as more mass is involved on average.


----------



## Abhishek901

There could be another reason which I missed before. I am not sure if it applied to entire Canada and the US but in Ontario (where I got my driver's license), you need to be tested on the highway to get a full license. Not sure if it works the same way in other provinces.

My cousin who got his driver's license in Indiana told me that he didn't have to undertake any test on the highway to get his full license. Again not sure if that's Indiana specific thing or country specific. If other states have similar rules, one would naturally expect more accidents on American highways (not claiming that getting a full license after being tested on a highway will make you a good driver, I have seen a fair number of dumb drivers in Ontario).


----------



## KIWIKAAS

I think you will find the vast majority of fatalities are on local streets and roads, and on rural roads. 
Also I would imagine that most fatalities will probably be on roads and streets with generally relatively low traffic volumes (head on crashes, pedestrians, single vehicle roll over....etc,)

The number of fatalities on freeways and expressways would be a somewhat lower percentage of the total.

It mostly comes down to poor driving with the large number of SUVs playing a role aswell.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Canada probably has a larger proportion of its population in very large cities. Large cities tend to have the lowest fatalities per 1 million inhabitants because they lack rural two-lane roads (the least safe road type). The U.S. population is more dispersed in rural areas, small and medium cities. 

A larger proportion of population in large cities also means the average vehicle size is smaller. Pickup trucks are very common in smaller towns and rural areas, but less so in large metropolitan areas. While pickup trucks are safer to drive _in_, they are less safe to _other_ road users due to their large mass. 

I recently read a about a comparison of vehicle safety by size. Larger vehicles were safer than smaller vehicles. However larger vehicles pose a greater danger to other road users. That may also be a reason why Europe has a much lower fatality rate despite most cars being substantially smaller than those in the U.S.


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## TM_Germany

rural two lane roads are less safe than urban two lane roads? I would have guessed with all the interference of pedestrians, bycicles and lots of close obstacles, accident rates in urban areas would be higher but due to lower speeds less fatal.


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ You can see that in Germany very well; Berlin, Hamburg & Bremen (city states) have a much lower fatality rate than other states (which include large rural areas).

German average: 39 per 1 million
Hamburg: 16 per 1 million
Berlin: 12 per 1 million
Bremen: 9 per 1 million
Sachsen-Anhalt: 63 per 1 million


----------



## siamu maharaj

Abhishek901 said:


> I drive regularly in Ontario and have driven on the Interstates in NY, NJ, CA and MI quite a bit and in IL, IN, OH and PA to some extent. There is quite a bit of difference in how the roads are designed in Ontario vs the Interstates. I believe road design is a bigger factor than driving behaviour.
> 
> For example, it is really surprising to see almost negligible length of acceleration lanes and exit lanes on the majority of the Interstates I have seen. Drivers don't get enough time to speed up to match the highway speed and the oncoming traffic has to brake to let drivers enter the highway. Similarly, drivers have to slow down on the main highway to exit safely. This is despite Interstates having higher speed limits in rural areas most of the times than Ontario's standard 100 km/hr limit.
> 
> For example, even in urban areas, the highways in Ontario have 300 meter long merging lanes - https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.762153,-79.3926846,162m/data=!3m1!1e3, while on Interstates you will find negligible merging lanes even in rural areas - https://www.google.ca/maps/@42.8076148,-84.6116797,166m/data=!3m1!1e3
> 
> Another problem which I have seen a lot, especially in NJ and NY, is that two lanes merge into one with little or no warning. In one instance, I was about to crash with a truck going parallel with my car but I had to swerve to avoid the crash.
> 
> I am feeling a little lazy finding spots like this on Google maps so I am sharing another non-highway spot which I remember. This is not an Interstate but the problem is still the same. Look at how two lanes merge into one on the eastbound FDR under Brooklyn bridge - https://www.google.ca/maps/@40.707156,-74.0009281,63m/data=!3m1!1e3. On the other hand, in Ontario, you'll see thick dashed lines in white with smaller intervals between the dashes to let you know that one of the lanes in ending and you need to merge into the other lane.
> 
> Similarly one lane splits into two without any strong warning on the Interstates while in Ontario one new lane branches out of an existing lanes so you are aware of what's happening and which lane you want to take. I would assume that side swipes would be much more common in the US because of these reasons.
> 
> 
> Source
> 
> This is when Ontario's drivers are considered to be the worst in Canada and of course, Ontario is in the snow belt and gets more snow and ice than most of the US. So I guess it's more about the road design than driving behaviour.
> 
> One thing Interstates do better in general is exit signage. You will get to know long before which lane you need to be on to exit the highway. And also you will know in advance if you need to be on the rightmost lane or 2nd from the right lane if you need to go north on the street or south on the street you are exiting on. In Ontario, you'll need to figure that out after you exit the highway and then you will need to figure while you are on exit ramp and you will be weaving right or left then.


Ontario is hardly a good example of highway design.

401's number of lanes go up and down like a yoyo is a short span all the time. 404/DVP to Yonge EB, goes from 4/5 to 2 lanes in a few kms. It's a huge choke point. If you choose to take Express, it queues up for so long, effectively moving the choke point toward Leslie.

404/401 to DVP is 10 lanes merging into 3. Maybe a world record right there. That interchange is a mess even with low traffic.

Or Express to local exits that jump over 4 lanes of collectors in less than a km. Few of them East of 404/DVP. Favourite is Markham Rd.

Or the 401 Express/Collector merging in Pickering. Infinite amount of land, and rather than merging gradually, they merge at a terrible 30 degree angle for no reason.

And all of this is pure moronic design, and not because of constraints of building a highway in an urban area.


----------



## sonysnob

siamu maharaj said:


> Ontario is hardly a good example of highway design.
> 
> 401's number of lanes go up and down like a yoyo is a short span all the time. 404/DVP to Yonge EB, goes from 4/5 to 2 lanes in a few kms. It's a huge choke point. If you choose to take Express, it queues up for so long, effectively moving the choke point toward Leslie.
> 
> 404/401 to DVP is 10 lanes merging into 3. Maybe a world record right there. That interchange is a mess even with low traffic.
> 
> Or Express to local exits that jump over 4 lanes of collectors in less than a km. Few of them East of 404/DVP. Favourite is Markham Rd.
> 
> Or the 401 Express/Collector merging in Pickering. Infinite amount of land, and rather than merging gradually, they merge at a terrible 30 degree angle for no reason.
> 
> And all of this is pure moronic design, and not because of constraints of building a highway in an urban area.


I don't disagree with the sentiment of your post, but I don't agree in calling the 401 a moronic design either.

The biggest flaw in the design of the 401 is it's age. I could be off by a year or two, but the preliminary design of the 401 through the 400 interchange was started in 1959. 1959! No engineer in the 1950s could envision the social and demographic changes that were going to come as a result of the success of the automobile. The 401 was designed for something like 280,000 vehicles a day. Today there are sections where traffic counts almost double that.

The Don Mills subdivision, which at least in the GTA, is widely regarded as the first automobile oriented commercial subdivision was envisioned in the mid-1950s. I'm sure at the time, nobody knew that that model would become the norm for residential development in southern Ontario from that point forward.


----------



## siamu maharaj

sonysnob said:


> I don't disagree with the sentiment of your post, but I don't agree in calling the 401 a moronic design either.
> 
> The biggest flaw in the design of the 401 is it's age. I could be off by a year or two, but the preliminary design of the 401 through the 400 interchange was started in 1959. 1959! No engineer in the 1950s could envision the social and demographic changes that were going to come as a result of the success of the automobile. The 401 was designed for something like 280,000 vehicles a day. Today there are sections where traffic counts almost double that.
> 
> The Don Mills subdivision, which at least in the GTA, is widely regarded as the first automobile oriented commercial subdivision was envisioned in the mid-1950s. I'm sure at the time, nobody knew that that model would become the norm for residential development in southern Ontario from that point forward.


You're right. 401 is from a time when the automobile world was a very different place, and at that time the highway was more than enough for the people of the GTA.

That also explains a lot of tiny merge ramps in America too. Back then you'd be lucky to have a 120 hp car.

On Don Mills, I think it was the first one of its kind in North America, and hence possibly the world. I watched a documentary on that. It pioneered a lot of concepts that were than copied widely across America and Canada.


----------



## sonysnob

^ John Sewell, a former mayor of Toronto, has written several books about Toronto and environs. I can't remember if it's "The Shape of the City" or "The Shape of the Suburbs" (I've read both), but in one of those books, Sewell provides a fairly extensive history of Don Mills. It's an interesting piece of history if nothing else.


----------



## Abhishek901

siamu maharaj said:


> Ontario is hardly a good example of highway design.
> 
> 401's number of lanes go up and down like a yoyo is a short span all the time. 404/DVP to Yonge EB, goes from 4/5 to 2 lanes in a few kms. It's a huge choke point. If you choose to take Express, it queues up for so long, effectively moving the choke point toward Leslie.
> 
> 404/401 to DVP is 10 lanes merging into 3. Maybe a world record right there. That interchange is a mess even with low traffic.
> 
> Or Express to local exits that jump over 4 lanes of collectors in less than a km. Few of them East of 404/DVP. Favourite is Markham Rd.
> 
> Or the 401 Express/Collector merging in Pickering. Infinite amount of land, and rather than merging gradually, they merge at a terrible 30 degree angle for no reason.
> 
> And all of this is pure moronic design, and not because of constraints of building a highway in an urban area.


401 has its flaws but the issues you mentioned here appear small when you drive in NJ. I drove on US 1 and some other highways near Newark and Jersey City and the way lanes merge and split were highly unsafe, esp for a new driver in the state. I missed the exit for my hotel twice and could go only in the third attempt. There was a place where I had to change 3 lanes in less than 300 meters, entering from right and exiting from left! 

I have driven in LA and I have also done some 200 km one-way commutes in SF area but nothing stressed me more than NJ's highways. Traffic wasn't bad in NJ but it was stressful because of poor/complicated highway designs including narrow shoulders in many places.

Anyways the urban highways, be it 401 or NJ highways will have those complications because of multiple exits and interchanges and design changes over the years. But having short merging lanes or exit lanes on rural highways doesn't make sense. There is enough space and land won't be expensive to acquire.


----------



## sonysnob

In my experience, California's roads are generally very well designed. The short accel/deccel lanes stand out as a bit of a design flaw, but I find that the lanes of a freeway generally exist as a driver would expect them to exist. The only notably exception that I can think of right off the top of my head are the freeways right around the East Los Angeles Interchange. That sticks out as an obvious candidate for the worst sections of freeway in the state.


----------



## siamu maharaj

Abhishek901 said:


> 401 has its flaws but the issues you mentioned here appear small when you drive in NJ. I drove on US 1 and some other highways near Newark and Jersey City and the way lanes merge and split were highly unsafe, esp for a new driver in the state. I missed the exit for my hotel twice and could go only in the third attempt. There was a place where I had to change 3 lanes in less than 300 meters, entering from right and exiting from left!
> 
> I have driven in LA and I have also done some 200 km one-way commutes in SF area but nothing stressed me more than NJ's highways. Traffic wasn't bad in NJ but it was stressful because of poor/complicated highway designs including narrow shoulders in many places.
> 
> Anyways the urban highways, be it 401 or NJ highways will have those complications because of multiple exits and interchanges and design changes over the years. But having short merging lanes or exit lanes on rural highways doesn't make sense. There is enough space and land won't be expensive to acquire.


They may be pre-Interstate turnpikes?

But if it was built within the last 40 years and has short merge lanes in rural areas, then I really cannot come up with an excuse.


----------



## siamu maharaj

sonysnob said:


> ^ John Sewell, a former mayor of Toronto, has written several books about Toronto and environs. I can't remember if it's "The Shape of the City" or "The Shape of the Suburbs" (I've read both), but in one of those books, Sewell provides a fairly extensive history of Don Mills. It's an interesting piece of history if nothing else.


If you're into that kind of stuff, and have Rogers cable, they have this program on the Rogers channel with each episode having a history of one area/place/building in Toronto. Haven't seen in a while since I switched to Bell, but it is very informative and very thoroughly researched.

There's also a 1984 docu. on Youtube where they talk about 9 different neighborhoods of Toronto.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 66*

I-66 has converted from HOV-only to HOT between I-495 and Arlington in December 2017. However the tolled lanes have no price ceiling, so during great demand the toll rate for the ~8 mile section skyrockets (usually only briefly).










>> http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/us...toll-spikes-to-46-for-tuesday-morning-commute


----------



## Penn's Woods

Abhishek901 said:


> 401 has its flaws but the issues you mentioned here appear small when you drive in NJ. I drove on US 1 and some other highways near Newark and Jersey City and the way lanes merge and split were highly unsafe, esp for a new driver in the state. I missed the exit for my hotel twice and could go only in the third attempt. There was a place where I had to change 3 lanes in less than 300 meters, entering from right and exiting from left!
> 
> I have driven in LA and I have also done some 200 km one-way commutes in SF area but nothing stressed me more than NJ's highways. Traffic wasn't bad in NJ but it was stressful because of poor/complicated highway designs including narrow shoulders in many places.
> 
> Anyways the urban highways, be it 401 or NJ highways will have those complications because of multiple exits and interchanges and design changes over the years. But having short merging lanes or exit lanes on rural highways doesn't make sense. There is enough space and land won't be expensive to acquire.


A lot of those northeastern New Jersey highways were built in the 30s, some even the late 20s. They were ahead of their time, then.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> I-66 has converted from HOV-only to HOT between I-495 and Arlington in December 2017. However the tolled lanes have no price ceiling, so during great demand the toll rate for the ~8 mile section skyrockets (usually only briefly).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >> http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/us...toll-spikes-to-46-for-tuesday-morning-commute


:eek2:


----------



## Kanadzie

siamu maharaj said:


> You're right. 401 is from a time when the automobile world was a very different place, and at that time the highway was more than enough for the people of the GTA.
> 
> That also explains a lot of tiny merge ramps in America too. Back then you'd be lucky to have a 120 hp car.


A lot of people were driving 50 hp cars then... there's an old photo of a DKW 3=6 climbing Hamilton mountain along newly widenened Hwy 20 :lol:

But... big power car means onramp length is not necessary... only a weak engine needs the space. I kind of question Ontario's design which is almost absurdly long compared to rest of the world (including Canada). Everyone just immediately changes into the traffic at 60 km/h anyway, or when there is a traffic jam, cuts over the zebra stripes into the onramp and then jams up again hno:


----------



## Abhishek901

siamu maharaj said:


> They may be pre-Interstate turnpikes?
> 
> But if it was built within the last 40 years and has short merge lanes in rural areas, then I really cannot come up with an excuse.


Wikipedia mention 1967 to 1992 as completion dates for I-69 in Michigan. 



Penn's Woods said:


> A lot of those northeastern New Jersey highways were built in the 30s, some even the late 20s. They were ahead of their time, then.


Didn't they reconstruct the highways since then? Lot of bridges and ramps need replacement within that period. Could have redesigned the alignment, lanes and ramps while they were rebuilding?


----------



## Penn's Woods

Abhishek901 said:


> Wikipedia mention 1967 to 1992 as completion dates for I-69 in Michigan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't they reconstruct the highways since then? Lot of bridges and ramps need replacement within that period. Could have redesigned the alignment, lanes and ramps while they were rebuilding?




Sure, but I don’t know exactly where you were.


----------



## Penn's Woods

xzmattzx said:


> Too bad that bridge will now be tolled.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that little bridge in Downtown Trenton still going to be free?




I don’t know. I don’t go that way. But I don’t see why not. There are other free bridges upriver, and plenty of them.


----------



## xzmattzx

Signage for "Interstate I-195" in East Providence, RI, and Seekonk, MA.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^:bash:



I can top that: I was in Providence once, in the late 80s or early 90s, and saw markers on RI 195 that were like an Interstate marker in shape (including the horizontal line), but black on white and with "RHODE ISLAND" in the top part where you normally see "INTERSTATE," I don't think they use those any more.

EDIT: Found this:
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:RI_195_special.svg


----------



## Corvinus

xzmattzx said:


> Rhode Island has installed tractor trailer-only tolls on I-95 east of Connecticut. The toll is $3.25, and it is bill-by-mail or EZ Pass only.


How do these camera-based "bill-by-mail" systems handle a foreign (non-US) registered vehicle? Are bills being sent over to at least MEX or CDN registered vehicles? If yes, how does the system operator receive the registrants' addresses?
A real overseas (say European) registered vehicle - typically tourists, or an off-the-container import from there - would just slip through the system?


----------



## Penn's Woods

Corvinus said:


> How do these camera-based "bill-by-mail" systems handle a foreign (non-US) registered vehicle? Are bills being sent over to at least MEX or CDN registered vehicles? If yes, how does the system operator receive the registrants' addresses?
> A real overseas (say European) registered vehicle - typically tourists, or an off-the-container import from there - would just slip through the system?




In 40-odd years of living in the northeastern U.S. and paying attention to license plates, I can still count on my fingers the number of foreign plates, other than Canadian, I’ve seen. Which is to say it’s not a significant issue.


----------



## Abhishek901

Corvinus said:


> How do these camera-based "bill-by-mail" systems handle a foreign (non-US) registered vehicle? Are bills being sent over to at least MEX or CDN registered vehicles? If yes, how does the system operator receive the registrants' addresses?
> A real overseas (say European) registered vehicle - typically tourists, or an off-the-container import from there - would just slip through the system?


Wouldn't tourists from Europe or somewhere else rent a car instead of bringing their car? And for those who import, wouldn't they need to register again in the US?


----------



## mgk920

Abhishek901 said:


> Wouldn't tourists from Europe or somewhere else rent a car instead of bringing their car? And for those who import, wouldn't they need to register again in the US?


Very occasionally I'll see a Mexican-registered car here in NE Wisconsin. OTOH, the only time when I've ever seen current overseas plates on the road in the USA was several years ago when I was in downtown Milwaukee, WI during the weekend of a Harley-Davidson reunion - a significant number of the motorcycles that I saw parked on the streets had overseas plates.

Mike


----------



## sonysnob

What are the rules for Mexican plated vehicles in the US? Can Mexican vehicles be driven in the rest of North America so long as they have proper insurance?


----------



## Penn's Woods

mgk920 said:


> Very occasionally I'll see a Mexican-registered car here in NE Wisconsin. OTOH, the only time when I've ever seen current overseas plates on the road in the USA was several years ago when I was in downtown Milwaukee, WI during the weekend of a Harley-Davidson reunion - a significant number of the motorcycles that I saw parked on the streets had overseas plates.
> 
> 
> 
> Mike




My count is three or four Mexican - all within the last ten years - one or two Germanies (Germanys?), a Switzerland and a Venezuela.

This is not counting the people, particularly in states that don’t require plates on the front - who tool around with German or Swedish plates as well as current American ones to show they went to Germany to take delivery of the Beemer.


----------



## siamu maharaj

I have seen Hawaii plates in Continental US. Maybe Chicago or Ohio. How does that even happen?


----------



## g.spinoza

siamu maharaj said:


> I have seen Hawaii plates in Continental US. Maybe Chicago or Ohio. How does that even happen?


Boats.


----------



## Corvinus

Abhishek901 said:


> Wouldn't tourists from Europe or somewhere else rent a car instead of bringing their car?


The masses do, but a small share of tourists/visitors ferry over their own. The really wealthy even bring their (usually high-end luxury) vehicles as air freight; others resort to the classical ro-ro container vessels.

I agree the share of such vehicles is insignificant .. but the more interesting.



Abhishek901 said:


> And for those who import, wouldn't they need to register again in the US?


Of course; but they are allowed to drive on the original (foreign) plates from the port of entry to their place of residence - during which they, too, could use those bill-by-mail toll roads.


----------



## Abhishek901

Penn's Woods said:


> My count is three or four Mexican - all within the last ten years - one or two Germanies (Germanys?), a Switzerland and a Venezuela.


Dumb question but how do you get to know which country are those cars from? Normally I have seen state/province designation on the plates in the countries I have been too. For example, a Kansas plate won't mention USA. If such a car is being driven around in Japan, most of the people wouldn't know which country it came from.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Abhishek901 said:


> Dumb question but how do you get to know which country are those cars from? Normally I have seen state/province designation on the plates in the countries I have been too. For example, a Kansas plate won't mention USA. If such a car is being driven around in Japan, most of the people wouldn't know which country it came from.




I think Mexican plates have “Mexico” along with the name of the state, but I’d recognize the state name anyway. Swiss and German plates are familiar to most people who’ve been to Europe. I don’t remember how I knew the Venezuela was from Venezuela....


----------



## xzmattzx

Abhishek901 said:


> Dumb question but how do you get to know which country are those cars from? Normally I have seen state/province designation on the plates in the countries I have been too. For example, a Kansas plate won't mention USA. If such a car is being driven around in Japan, most of the people wouldn't know which country it came from.


Anyone who is on a website like SkyscraperCity probably knows country codes or Mexican estados.

Mexican plates use a familiar xxx-xx-xx format. Also, most Mexican estados have fairly recognizable names: Chihuahua, Sinaloa, Baja California, etc.

European plates have country codes. "F" for France, "D" for Germany, etc.

Other countries just put the name of the country on the plate like states and provinces do: Costa Rica, Bahamas, etc.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ the recent Mexican plates I've seen usually have "MEXICO" written on them below the state



Abhishek901 said:


> Dumb question but how do you get to know which country are those cars from? Normally I have seen state/province designation on the plates in the countries I have been too. For example, a Kansas plate won't mention USA. If such a car is being driven around in Japan, most of the people wouldn't know which country it came from.


You have to put a "white oval" country sticker on your car (for Americans it would be a "USA")

I saw a Ontario-plated Chrysler 300 driving around Warsaw once, and more than a few German-plated cars driving around Canada (often RV type contraptions driving the Trans-Canada it seems)


----------



## Innsertnamehere

I've seen 3 european plates in the last 5 years or so, one BMW with german plates, and 2 camper vans with german plates. Saw one of the camper vans last weekend actually driving through the portlands in Toronto.

Funny enough I've actually seen more german plates here than mexican plates.. I can only recall seeing a mexican tour bus parked out front of Union Station once.

as for tolls, the way it works in Ontario for the 407 is that the toll company has agreements with most US states and Canadian provinces. If you have plates not on the list, you drive for free. What states are free is a closely guarded secret however..


----------



## zaphod

siamu maharaj said:


> I have seen Hawaii plates in Continental US. Maybe Chicago or Ohio. How does that even happen?




People ship their car.

A lot of military people live in Hawaii so that explains the migration to places in the middle of the country to some degree.

Hawaii cars also have a rear bumper registration tag with an emblem shaped like a cloverleaf interchange. These outlast the plates and if you are observant you notice them everywhere.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Innsertnamehere said:


> I've seen 3 european plates in the last 5 years or so, one BMW with german plates, and 2 camper vans with german plates. Saw one of the camper vans last weekend actually driving through the portlands in Toronto.
> 
> Funny enough I've actually seen more german plates here than mexican plates.. I can only recall seeing a mexican tour bus parked out front of Union Station once.
> 
> as for tolls, the way it works in Ontario for the 407 is that the toll company has agreements with most US states and Canadian provinces. If you have plates not on the list, you drive for free. What states are free is a closely guarded secret however..




The other day, I crossed the New Jersey-Pennsylvania crossing on the re-routed I-95 (the bridge across the Delaware connecting the two turnpikes) southbound, for the first time since the 95/276 ramps opened last September. (I’ve done it a few times northbound, but there’s no toll on the bridge in that direction. In fact, if you drive up 95 from Philadelphia, cross the bridge, and exit at US 130, before you hit the main leg of the New Jersey Turnpike, you’ll pay no toll.) It’s signed as “E-ZPass or we’ll bill you.” I only got a quick look at the sign, but it seems to be the Pennsylvania Turnpike that’s charging you there, which makes me wonder...there are a few E-ZPass-only exits opened in recent years, in the Philadelphia suburbs and I think Pittsburgh as well, used mostly by commuters. I wonder if they’re really E-ZPass-or-bill. (I’ve never used any of them.)


----------



## xzmattzx

Innsertnamehere said:


> I've seen 3 european plates in the last 5 years or so, one BMW with german plates, and 2 camper vans with german plates. Saw one of the camper vans last weekend actually driving through the portlands in Toronto.
> 
> Funny enough I've actually seen more german plates here than mexican plates.. I can only recall seeing a mexican tour bus parked out front of Union Station once.
> 
> as for tolls, the way it works in Ontario for the 407 is that the toll company has agreements with most US states and Canadian provinces. If you have plates not on the list, you drive for free. What states are free is a closely guarded secret however..


Supposedly Delaware is not on the list, based on a family that moved here from Toronto. They told me that in 2010, though, so who knows now. But I doubt it's worth the hassle to go after the 2-3 Delaware cars each year that use that road.


----------



## xzmattzx

Penn's Woods said:


> How many places in Pennsylvania does a non-Interstate freeway have numbered exits? I can think of Pa. 378 in Bethlehem, Pa. 28 near Pittsburgh, and I assume non-Interstate legs of the Turnpike system.
> 
> And talking of, Ohio (I was in the Ashtabula-Youngstown-Canton-Sandusky quadrangle about a month ago) is starting to do this...on Ohio 2 and Ohio 11; and more oddly Carrier Circle in suburban Syracuse, N.Y., (I was there a couple of weeks ago), which is just a big traffic circle, numbers its exits.
> 
> And is it US 15 numbering - from the Mason-Dixon Line south of Gettysburg - or I-99, from Bedford?


I'm guessing it's I-99 numbering, since it will eventually be I-99. There wasn't any numbering on these exits two years ago, maybe last year (but I don't remember). It's a matter of when, not if, this section becomes signed as I-99. I-99 south from I-86 currently ends at the Pennsylvania border.


----------



## Penn's Woods

xzmattzx said:


> I'm guessing it's I-99 numbering, since it will eventually be I-99. There wasn't any numbering on these exits two years ago, maybe last year (but I don't remember). It's a matter of when, not if, this section becomes signed as I-99. I-99 south from I-86 currently ends at the Pennsylvania border.




How far north is 99 posted in New York? It was still 390 at the Thruway exit for it a couple of weeks ago.


----------



## xzmattzx

Penn's Woods said:


> How far north is 99 posted in New York? It was still 390 at the Thruway exit for it a couple of weeks ago.


I-99 just goes to the terminus with I-86 in Painted Post. That was the original intent, I believe.

For Pennsylvania, I'm guessing it will take more work to designate US 15 from Williamsport to New York as I-99 because of this:



> Before the Interstate 99 designation could be extended from Bald Eagle to Interstate 80, Congress had to pass legislation to amend the definition of the route. *The reason it had to be extended in that manner was because the designation was written into law, and any further extensions must be also be approved by Congress.* Interstate 99 was officially designated as such on December 10, 2008.


http://www.pahighways.com/interstates/I99.html


----------



## Penn's Woods

xzmattzx said:


> I-99 just goes to the terminus with I-86 in Painted Post. That was the original intent, I believe.
> 
> 
> 
> For Pennsylvania, I'm guessing it will take more work to designate US 15 from Williamsport to New York as I-99 because of this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.pahighways.com/interstates/I99.html




Maybe I was just assuming that since US 15 used to end at Rochester, 99 would as well.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-10, Phoenix, Arizona*

It appears that the I-10 expansion in Phoenix, Arizona has been resurrected. 

The project limits stretch from Loop 202 to I-17, but the most notable section is the so-called 'Broadway Curve' where I-10 turns south. This is a critical stretch of freeway where most regional traffic comes together.

The plan is to widen this section of I-10 to 6 general purpose lanes, 2 HOV lanes and 3 'frontage road lanes' (though they look more like collector lanes). So, a general 22 lane section of freeway.


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## sponge_bob

ChrisZwolle said:


> So, a general 22 lane section of freeway.


As with many US Interstates, this one is well inside Phoenix, see


----------



## annman

^^ I cannot think of a city that is screaming for less asphalt and less of an _urban heat island effect_, than Phoenix. Yikes! Impressive freeway, but definitely not the most sustainable way to go in the Valley of the Sun.


----------



## sonysnob

^ I've been to Phoenix a few times. Phoenix is hot in March and April. I can't imagine what it must be like in July.


----------



## Kanadzie

maybe they can get it hot enough that it actually can be useful for something... like warming up the cold evenings or running some kind of electricity generation 

curiously you see Phoenix and the roads always are quite pleasant to use, never that "heat wave buckling" you hear like last year in Germany. But surely Phoenix is way hotter...


----------



## fubo

With global warming why are we still allowing people to settle in a water starved desert? Surely if global warming is true and it is,then the political class must put an end to this migration.


----------



## mgk920

fubo said:


> With global warming why are we still allowing people to settle in a water starved desert? Surely if global warming is true and it is,then the political class must put an end to this migration.


It has nothing to do with global warming, a coming new ice age, or anything else like that, but rather the finite supply of water that is available from the Colorado River. Already the river is completely dry where it crosses from the USA into Mexico and it is having an effect on the ecology of the Gulf of California.

Mike


----------



## Penn's Woods

fubo said:


> With global warming why are we still allowing people to settle in a water starved desert? Surely if global warming is true and it is,then the political class must put an end to this migration.




How?


----------



## fubo

Penn's Woods said:


> How?




Zoning, stop extending water and sewer lines, tax new construction so much that it’s no longer economically feasible,do not issue building permits, etc.

Either global warming is a crisis or it isn’t. So if it’s a crisis the government needs to stop allowing population growth in areas of the continent where life will not be sustainable in the next 12 or do years. 

Besides if we want to curb carbon emissions we should not be building where we have to emit excess carbon from power plants to supply ever more air conditioning which will only have to be larger and used more frequently as the desert becomes ever warmer over the new few decades.

Our political policies are leading to a death spiral for places like Phoenix


----------



## Penn's Woods

fubo said:


> Zoning, stop extending water and sewer lines, tax new construction so much that it’s no longer economically feasible,do not issue building permits, etc.
> 
> Either global warming is a crisis or it isn’t. So if it’s a crisis the government needs to stop allowing population growth in areas of the continent where life will not be sustainable in the next 12 or do years.
> 
> Besides if we want to curb carbon emissions we should not be building where we have to emit excess carbon from power plants to supply ever more air conditioning which will only have to be larger and used more frequently as the desert becomes ever warmer over the new few decades.
> 
> Our political policies are leading to a death spiral for places like Phoenix




I get you; I just don’t see Arizona’s politicians doing that. But maybe [not] “allowing” was too-strong language.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I've read that the suburban sprawl actually reduces water usage in the Phoenix area, because it replaces cotton fields, which is a very water-intensive industry. The Soviets found that out in Central Asia where the Aral Sea dried up.


----------



## fubo

Penn's Woods said:


> I get you; I just don’t see Arizona’s politicians doing that. But maybe [not] “allowing” was too-strong language.




Then the politicians need to flat out say that global warming is not anything near a crisis that needs to be dealt with and start building the necessary fossil fueled power plants needed to power millions of air conditioners in places like Phoenix or Vegas. Time to either poop or get off the pot.


----------



## fubo

ChrisZwolle said:


> I've read that the suburban sprawl actually reduces water usage in the Phoenix area, because it replaces cotton fields, which is a very water-intensive industry. The Soviets found that out in Central Asia where the Aral Sea dried up.




My guess is that suburban sprawl in Phoenix and Las Vegas contributes more to global warming and carbon emissions than the cotton fields ever did.


----------



## Penn's Woods

fubo said:


> Then the politicians need to flat out say that global warming is not anything near a crisis that needs to be dealt with and start building the necessary fossil fueled power plants needed to power millions of air conditioners in places like Phoenix or Vegas. Time to either poop or get off the pot.




Are you an American? If not, you may not know that we unfortunately have a major party whose leaders either believe climate change doesn’t exist, or pretend to believe that.


----------



## fubo

Penn's Woods said:


> Are you an American? If not, you may not know that we unfortunately have a major party whose leaders either believe climate change doesn’t exist, or pretend to believe that.


Neither party REALLY believes it exists. The Democrats only use it for fund raising and pandering purposes. If either party was really concerned they would be converting every coal plant to natural gas. And they would be building new nuclear power plants. But they are not, they are just pandering for votes.


----------



## Abhishek901

Penn's Woods said:


> Are you an American? If not, you may not know that we unfortunately have a major party whose leaders either believe climate change doesn’t exist, or pretend to believe that.


It was funny when Trump said that global warming is a hoax made by China. I would understand if he says that he doesn't care about climate and economic growth is his priority. I would also understand if he says global warming is a myth and data doesn't support that. But saying it's a hoax from China was weird. 

China is a developing country and would care more about growing than climate at this point. It wouldn't want to slow down its economy to clean the mess left behind by developed countries which industrialized before it. 

Sorry for going OT.


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## Kanadzie

Water issues aside, massive population growth in areas like Phoenix seem ideal. You don't have that problem of paving over productive farmland, or removing important ecological areas that you have in most other city regions.


----------



## sonysnob

productive farmland in what should be a desert has always amused me.

Seeing as fruits and veggies are mostly comprised of water, some of the driest areas on the continent are literally exporting water.


----------



## sponge_bob

I drove almost the whole I-26 once and remember it being particularly crap in NC compared to the I-26 sections north and south of there. Glad to see it is gettin some love, it needed lots in that state 

https://wlos.com/news/local/i-26-widening-project-slated-to-start-in-september


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## ChrisZwolle

*Lehi, Utah*

The I-15 / SR-92 interchange in Lehi, Utah was reconfigured to a DDI in 2012. It will now be changed back to a regular diamond interchange, I'm thinking this may be the first DDI reverted back.

The reason is the rapidly increasing traffic volumes in this area. They are constructing a new interchange, frontage roads and flyovers to spread traffic away from that single interchange.

According to Utah DOT, the AADT on I-15 at that interchange increased from 123,000 to 181,000 in just 4 years. 

Here's a video (unlisted) of that project: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvVzqQi0g_M


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-10, Houston, Texas*

A barge has struck the bridge of I-10 over the San Jacinto River on the east side of Houston. At least two columns are destroyed. This occurred during the flooding event of tropical storm Imelda. Several freeways in the Houston area are closed due to flooding. I-10 is closed entirely in southeast Texas as well.


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## chilofiut




----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-10, Houston, Texas*

Traffic has been shifted to the eastbound bridge of I-10 over the San Jacinto River east of Houston.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1176894177369571334


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## mgk920

*WisDOT announces schedule on I-41 upgrade - Appleton to De Pere, WI*

Work to upgrade I-41 from four to six lanes between WI 15 in northwest Appleton, WI and Scheuring Rd in De Pere, WI is now expected to begin in 2025, with completion in 2029.

This badly overdue project will complete the six and eight laning of I-41 north of WI 26 in Oshkosh, WI and continuing on as US 41/141 for several km to the north of I-43 north of Green Bay, WI. This remaining four lane part is operating well above capacity and is regularly experiencing volume-related slowdowns, especially across Appleton's north side and on eastward/northward towards Kaukauna.

It is possible that this project could be sped up.

https://www.postcrescent.com/story/...on-and-de-pere-planned-start-2025/2427163001/

(Location)
https://goo.gl/maps/jetbGw6mHA3FniKb9

:cheers1:

Mike


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## xzmattzx

Badly overdue and will begin in 2025?


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## mgk920

xzmattzx said:


> Badly overdue and will begin in 2025?


Politics....

hno:

Mike


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## chilofiut

Driving from Phoenix Arizona to Las Vegas Nevada


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-10, San Antonio, Texas*

The design of the new I-10 / Loop 1604 interchange in San Antonio, Texas. It's the northwestern one. 

There will be a 5 level stack interchange and an unusual roundabout-type intersection for the frontage roads.


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## sponge_bob

Ouch. My eyes.


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## Penn's Woods

sponge_bob said:


> I drove almost the whole I-26 once and remember it being particularly crap in NC compared to the I-26 sections north and south of there. Glad to see it is gettin some love, it needed lots in that state
> 
> https://wlos.com/news/local/i-26-widening-project-slated-to-start-in-september




I-26 in Tennessee is relatively new. Asheville used to be the northwestern terminus. Then Tennessee slapped an Interstate designation (181) on an existing freeway in the Kingsport/Johnson City area; eventually they upgraded (or built a new roadway; I’m not sure) from the south end of 181 to Asheville and incorporated it into 26. All this may have been 20 years ago....


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## chilofiut

Las Vegas Nevada highway driving


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## ChrisZwolle

Arizona has employed a new technique to replace a bridge in only 18 days.

It's called a Geosynthetic Reinforced Soil-Integrated Bridge System.


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## mgk920

Penn's Woods said:


> I-26 in Tennessee is relatively new. Asheville used to be the northwestern terminus. Then Tennessee slapped an Interstate designation (181) on an existing freeway in the Kingsport/Johnson City area; eventually they upgraded (or built a new roadway; I’m not sure) from the south end of 181 to Asheville and incorporated it into 26. All this may have been 20 years ago....


That part of I-26 opened in 2003.

Mike


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## ChrisZwolle

*Cloverstack*

There are cloverleaf interchanges. And there are stack interchanges. And there is El Paso, Texas, which has a stack _on top_ of a cloverleaf! :cheers:


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## siamu maharaj

Is the cloverleaf closed now?


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## keokiracer

siamu maharaj said:


> Is the cloverleaf closed now?


It’s probably still in use for the frontage roads


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## ttownfeen

Yup, it is hard to make out, but the frontage lanes are grade-separated from the freeway lanes.


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## sonysnob

I-96 through western Detroit:









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/MI/I/96/I96_MI_dv_171-6_west_Aug19_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/MI/I/96/I96_MI_dv_171-75_west_Aug19_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/MI/I/96/I96_MI_dv_173_west_Aug19_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/MI/I/96/I96_MI_dv_173-1_west_Aug19_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/MI/I/96/I96_MI_dv_173-5_west_Aug19_24x16.jpg









http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/MI/I/96/I96_MI_dv_174-5_west_Aug19_24x16.jpg


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## Penn's Woods

sonysnob said:


> I-96 through western Detroit:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/MI/I/96/I96_MI_dv_171-6_west_Aug19_24x16.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/MI/I/96/I96_MI_dv_171-75_west_Aug19_24x16.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/MI/I/96/I96_MI_dv_173_west_Aug19_24x16.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/MI/I/96/I96_MI_dv_173-1_west_Aug19_24x16.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/MI/I/96/I96_MI_dv_173-5_west_Aug19_24x16.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/MI/I/96/I96_MI_dv_174-5_west_Aug19_24x16.jpg




Are we going backwards?


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## sonysnob

Penn's Woods said:


> Are we going backwards?


oops


----------



## sponge_bob

Lest we forget. Some sections of the Interstate network date back to State plans like the Pennsylvania Turnpike of the 1930s and the Ohio Turnpike of the 1940s which were some of the worlds greatest roads in the postwar era. 

These roads were completed before the Interstate Act of the mid 1950s. Not surprisingly some bits needed complete replacement since.


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

ChrisZwolle said:


> There are cloverleaf interchanges. And there are stack interchanges. And there is El Paso, Texas, which has a stack _on top_ of a cloverleaf! :cheers:


I like these cases where you have two complete four-way interchanges on top of each other.

Perhaps the best known example is Springfield Interchange, which is pretty much two stacks (though with one of the eight right turns using a loop rather than direct connector): https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@38.7901494,-77.1745319,15.76z

Outside Bangkok, Thailand there's what I'd describe as two cloverstacks (or clovermills if you prefer): https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@13.647916,100.6855296,16.98z

East of Norfolk, VA there's a near miss, with eight right turns but not quite in the configuration where you could say there were two complete interchanges (only one way to get from northbound to westbound): https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@36.8459591,-76.1940578,17z


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## Penn's Woods

sponge_bob said:


> Lest we forget. Some sections of the Interstate network date back to State plans like the Pennsylvania Turnpike of the 1930s and the Ohio Turnpike of the 1940s which were some of the worlds greatest roads in the postwar era.
> 
> These roads were completed before the Interstate Act of the mid 1950s. Not surprisingly some bits needed complete replacement since.




I wonder what the oldest road currently part of the Interstate system is. And by “oldest road” I guess I mean something that would qualify as a freeway/motorway in a right-of-way that currently has an Interstate. (So we can still count it if it’s been rebuilt.) But excluding bridges and tunnels.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

My guess is the George Washington Bridge, opened in 1931. 

The Goethals Bridge (1928) was older, but has recently been replaced. 

A brief section of what is now I-90 in Cleveland opened in 1935, it was then part of the Cleveland Memorial Shoreway (now mostly OH-2).

As for longer stretches, I'm guessing I-70/76 (Pennsylvania Turnpike), which opened in 1940.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> My guess is the George Washington Bridge, opened in 1931.
> 
> The Goethals Bridge (1928) was older, but has recently been replaced.
> 
> A brief section of what is now I-90 in Cleveland opened in 1935, it was then part of the Cleveland Memorial Shoreway (now mostly OH-2).
> 
> As for longer stretches, I'm guessing I-70/76 (Pennsylvania Turnpike), which opened in 1940.




So excluding bridges, the Shoreway. Which I’ve actually driven recently. Think I got it end-to-end, eastbound. I didn’t know it was that old. Did the Pennsylvania Turnpike from King of Prussia to the Ohio line on the same trip, actually. :cheers:


----------



## sponge_bob

The New York Thruway motorway system cost around $1.5bn when it was built, mainly rather rapidly in the 1950s, and it was largely opened within a year of the Interstates and Defence Highways Act and was all built 50 years ago IIRC. 

The biggest change to it since 1960 was the eventual replacement of the Tappan Zee bridge for $4bn a few years back. Extra lanes have been added over the years too. 

Despite the New York Thruway system having been a toll road (turnpike in US terminology) since it opened 60 years ago it now has a debt of around $8bn. 

The Pennsylvania Turnpike is the oldest of all the major road systems incorporated into the Interstate numbering system, much is around 80 years old. It has an annual income of $1.2bn today. 

It owes $12bn today.  (half that from cross subsidising 'other' transport in Pennsylvania in recent years and half from whatever they were at themselves over the years). See. 

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/new...now $11.8,highways and public transit systems.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

To be fair the NY and PA turnpike systems have quite low tolls.. the tolls are very low for the distance you cover on them.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Pennsylvania Turnpike rates have gone up dramatically because it is forced to pay a few hundred million dollars per year to the state for other purposes. 

The cash rate is now $ 58.30 or $ 41.70 with an E-ZPass, for the entire length (OH to NJ). The cash rate is now similar to toll roads in France or Italy.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Pennsylvania Turnpike rates have gone up dramatically because it is forced to pay a few hundred million dollars per year to the state for other purposes.
> 
> 
> 
> The cash rate is now $ 58.30 or $ 41.70 with an E-ZPass, for the entire length (OH to NJ). The cash rate is now similar to toll roads in France or Italy.




Ouch! I just drove it from King of Prussia (exit 326, suburban Philadelphia) to the Ohio line a couple of months ago. With a stop for the night at Somerset. So it was actually two tolls. I would have guessed that cost me $25 or so; maybe I should look at my E-ZPass statements more often. On the other hand, there are stretches where you can use it for free...If you get on westbound at I-79 or anywhere farther west, you won't pay a toll until you're in Ohio.



ANYHOW, change of subject:

New York has been one of the last states still numbering their exits on Interstates and other freeways sequentially rather than by mileage. And I covered a bit of ground in New York in late August - most of the Thruway, 81 from the Pennsylvania line to Syracuse, 481, 690, 290, 190... - and nothing had changed. But I heard a New York-area traffic report this morning mention "Exit 52 on I-84 in Fishkill"; I thought that was an awfully high number, but then realized it could well be 52 miles from the Pennsylvania line. So I checked Google Maps. It shows mileage-based numbering from the Hudson to exit 52 (that's all I checked). So I guess they're converting.


----------



## Penn's Woods

VERY long article (I didn’t finish) about visiting an old alignment of the Pennsylvania Turnpike

https://uncoveringpa.com/abandoned-pa-turnpike


----------



## xzmattzx

ChrisZwolle said:


> My guess is the George Washington Bridge, opened in 1931.
> 
> The Goethals Bridge (1928) was older, but has recently been replaced.
> 
> A brief section of what is now I-90 in Cleveland opened in 1935, it was then part of the Cleveland Memorial Shoreway (now mostly OH-2).
> 
> As for longer stretches, I'm guessing I-70/76 (Pennsylvania Turnpike), which opened in 1940.


The Benjamin Franklin Bridge, which carries I-676 between Philadelphia and Camden, was built in 1926.


----------



## CNGL

Introducing the newest Interstate to be designated: I-880. And unlike some of the recent additions, this one has been built for half a century: It was at first I-80N, then part of I-680 around Omaha. However due to recent floods closing parts of I-29 during long periods of time, there was some confusion about the detour on I-680, as most people thought it was only the loop around Omaha when the closures where in between both I-680 interchanges. So the section from I-29 to I-80 in Iowa has been renumbered I-880, effective with the last AASHTO meeting which took place a few days ago, with this being the most prominent action taken.


----------



## browntown

Innsertnamehere said:


> To be fair the NY and PA turnpike systems have quite low tolls.. the tolls are very low for the distance you cover on them.


1. Seeing as 99.9% of roads are free ANY toll is expensive. 

2. These are the most expensive toll roads/bridges I've personally ever seen. I remember the first time I went over the Goethals Bridge I thought it was weird that it had a $1.5 toll since that seem like a lot for such a short bridge. But then the toll plaza dude pointed out it wasn't $1.5, it was $15! Blew my mind. Bridges that big in any other state are free and not even really that noteworthy.


----------



## mgk920

ChrisZwolle said:


> My guess is the George Washington Bridge, opened in 1931.
> 
> The Goethals Bridge (1928) was older, but has recently been replaced.
> 
> A brief section of what is now I-90 in Cleveland opened in 1935, it was then part of the Cleveland Memorial Shoreway (now mostly OH-2).
> 
> As for longer stretches, I'm guessing I-70/76 (Pennsylvania Turnpike), which opened in 1940.


I-41/94 in Kenosha and Racine Counties in Wisconsin was four lanes (as US 41) before WWII, but I am unsure as to when parts of it first attained a semblance of freeway standards.

Mike


----------



## g.spinoza

browntown said:


> 1. Seeing as 99.9% of roads are free ANY toll is expensive.
> 
> 2. These are the most expensive toll roads/bridges I've personally ever seen. I remember the first time I went over the Goethals Bridge I thought it was weird that it had a $1.5 toll since that seem like a lot for such a short bridge. But then the toll plaza dude pointed out it wasn't $1.5, it was $15! Blew my mind. Bridges that big in any other state are free and not even really that noteworthy.


It's funny as to what Americans and Europeans think is expensive or not. We are used to toll roads but are also used to pay next to nothing for health care. Americans are horrified at paying 1.5 dollars for a bridge but don't blink at tens of thousands of bucks for doctor's bills.
Sorry for the OT.


----------



## siamu maharaj

browntown said:


> 1. Seeing as 99.9% of roads are free ANY toll is expensive.
> 
> 2. These are the most expensive toll roads/bridges I've personally ever seen. I remember the first time I went over the Goethals Bridge I thought it was weird that it had a $1.5 toll since that seem like a lot for such a short bridge. But then the toll plaza dude pointed out it wasn't $1.5, it was $15! Blew my mind. Bridges that big in any other state are free and not even really that noteworthy.


I think bridges from NJ to NYC to discourage people from driving into there. A good side-effect is that you earn tons of money,


----------



## Penn's Woods

browntown said:


> 1. Seeing as 99.9% of roads are free ANY toll is expensive.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. These are the most expensive toll roads/bridges I've personally ever seen. I remember the first time I went over the Goethals Bridge I thought it was weird that it had a $1.5 toll since that seem like a lot for such a short bridge. But then the toll plaza dude pointed out it wasn't $1.5, it was $15! Blew my mind. Bridges that big in any other state are free and not even really that noteworthy.




Oh, the medical bills point is hardly true...That’s a major political issue here right now.


----------



## Penn's Woods

siamu maharaj said:


> I think bridges from NJ to NYC to discourage people from driving into there. A good side-effect is that you earn tons of money,




They’re toll bridges because they cross a state border and were built by a bi-state entity - now called the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey - which I guess isn’t supported out of regular state funds, AND they predate the Interstate system. Northeasterners helped pay for all those “free” bridges in Alabama and Nebraska; the reverse is not true.
Not that the New York-area tolls aren’t a bit steep....


----------



## Zack Fair

g.spinoza said:


> It's funny as to what Americans and Europeans think is expensive or not. *We are used to toll roads but are also used to pay next to nothing for health care. Americans are horrified at paying 1.5 dollars for a bridge but don't blink at tens of thousands of bucks for doctor's bills.
> Sorry for the OT.*


Show me an American who doesn't mind paying thousands in medical bills.

Europeans always complain they pay a lot for toll roads or fuel prices but don't blink at all the taxes they pay (which pay their state healthcare). See what I did here?


----------



## g.spinoza

Zack Fair said:


> Show me an American who doesn't mind paying thousands in medical bills.


Given that I never saw swarms of Americans with pitchfork in front of the White House I assume they don't mind so much. On the contrary, Obamacare was opposed by many. 

OT in the OT (I swear it's the last one): yesterday on Netflix I watched a US documentary series called "Diagnosis". On each episode they discuss some medical case nobody can make heads or tails of, until some doctor somewhere does. À la "House" but for real. 
In the first episode a Nevada girl with excruciating muscle pain and black pee. She was admitted 20 times in different hospitals but no doctor had the faintest idea of what she's got, until her case was advertised on a newspaper (maybe NY Times). A medical student from Turin solved the mistery and invited her to Italy for some exams that were never performed in the US, and said "I'm very surprised nobody thought of these exams in the US".
The girl was afraid such exams were going to cost a fortune (she was sued by three doctors because she couldn't pay for previous - uneffective - treatments) and the medical student replied: "these exams will cost you nothing. It's not a favour to you, it's the way it's done in Italy".

This is not to brag or anything, just to say that expensive doesn't necessarily mean better.



> Europeans always complain they pay a lot for toll roads or fuel prices but don't blink at all the taxes they pay (which pay their state healthcare). See what I did here?


Oh, believe me, Europeans do blink. Governments fall over tax increases. Many taxes (at least in Italy) are evaded. Maybe it doesn't reach American ears but the noise is loud here.

And about toll roads, yes Europeans protest by... taking untolled roads.


----------



## wgerman

You only pay a toll if going into New York City, not leaving.............Strange.


----------



## mgk920

wgerman said:


> You only pay a toll if going into New York City, not leaving.............Strange.


That was done mainly to cut down on traffic congestion at the tollgates, along with related economic losses in wasted time due to delays in waiting to pay as well as cutting down on the exhaust emissions from all of those idling vehicles - since one who crosses in one direction is very likely to cross again in the other, we'll just charge a double toll in one direction with no stopping in the other.

That $15 cash toll is actually $7.50 in each direction.

The George Washington Bridge (I-95) is in the range of $110 eastbound and *free* westbound for a big-rig truck/lorry.

This isn't so much an issue these days with transponder/photo tolling, but that one-way tolling system has not yet been changed back to two-way tolling.

Mike


----------



## Penn's Woods

wgerman said:


> You only pay a toll if going into New York City, not leaving.............Strange.




There’s a joke that New Jersey’s the only state that you have to pay to get out of. Because the bridges on the Pennsylvania/Delaware side do the same thing: charge westbound only.

But the alternative would be the tollbooths causing traffic jams on the streets of Manhattan during the rush hour....


----------



## Penn's Woods

mgk920 said:


> That was done mainly to cut down on traffic congestion at the tollgates, along with related economic losses in wasted time due to delays in waiting to pay as well as cutting down on the exhaust emissions from all of those idling vehicles - since one who crosses in one direction is very likely to cross again in the other, we'll just charge a double toll in one direction with no stopping in the other.
> 
> 
> 
> That $15 cash toll is actually $7.50 in each direction.
> 
> 
> 
> The George Washington Bridge (I-95) is in the range of $110 eastbound and *free* westbound for a big-rig truck/lorry.
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't so much an issue these days with transponder/photo tolling, but that one-way tolling system has not yet been changed back to two-way tolling.
> 
> 
> 
> Mike




Nor have I heard any talk of two-way tolling. But it would be hard to implement until we get to the point where everyone pays electronically, at all the Hudson crossings (because if one is free westbound, everyone will use that one).


----------



## siamu maharaj

mgk920 said:


> That was done mainly to cut down on traffic congestion at the tollgates, along with related economic losses in wasted time due to delays in waiting to pay as well as cutting down on the exhaust emissions from all of those idling vehicles - since one who crosses in one direction is very likely to cross again in the other, we'll just charge a double toll in one direction with no stopping in the other.
> 
> That $15 cash toll is actually $7.50 in each direction.
> 
> The George Washington Bridge (I-95) is in the range of $110 eastbound and *free* westbound for a big-rig truck/lorry.
> 
> This isn't so much an issue these days with transponder/photo tolling, but that one-way tolling system has not yet been changed back to two-way tolling.
> 
> Mike


You make a good point. I always interpreted it as a tax on getting into NYC mainly, but leaving it is free.


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## rumcajs16

Leaving NYC via Staten Island is not free because you pay a toll entering Staten Island from Brooklyn via the Verrazano Narrows Bridge. Most traffic on the Staten Island Expressway is transit traffic either leaving or entering Brooklyn & Long Island, so most people are paying a toll one way or another.


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## browntown

Penn's Woods said:


> They’re toll bridges because they cross a state border and were built by a bi-state entity - now called the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey - which I guess isn’t supported out of regular state funds, AND they pre-date the Interstate system.


The Goethels Bridge was built like 2 years ago..


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## Penn's Woods

rumcajs16 said:


> Leaving NYC via Staten Island is not free because you pay a toll entering Staten Island from Brooklyn via the Verrazano Narrows Bridge. Most traffic on the Staten Island Expressway is transit traffic either leaving or entering Brooklyn & Long Island, so most people are paying a toll one way or another.




That’s true. Both of my parents grew up on Staten Island. I still have relatives there. The Verazzano (sp?) toll - since it’s the only way to the rest of the city by road - is a constant source of complaints from them.

(Not sure how to spell Verazzano. I should know. But the city recently discovered they’d been misspelling it all these years and corrected it, which makes it harder to remember which version is right.)

Anyhow, the Verazzano is not run by the Port Authority but by a different entity, now part of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which also runs the city transit system (buses, subway), suburban rail lines, and so on. I think most of their other bridges charge tolls both ways (the Robert F. Kennedy, formerly Triborough; the Bronx-Whitestone; and the Throgs Neck. The Henry Hudson Bridge and Queens-Midtown charge Manhattan-bound only. If I’m not mistaken.)


----------



## Penn's Woods

browntown said:


> The Goethels Bridge was built like 2 years ago..




And replaced a bridge built in the 20s. I grew up in New Jersey and have relatives in Staten Island; I’ve been crossing the Goethals several times a year for 50-plus years.


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## g.spinoza

Penn's Woods said:


> That’s true. Both of my parents grew up on Staten Island. I still have relatives there. The Verazzano (sp?) toll - since it’s the only way to the rest of the city by road - is a constant source of complaints from them.
> 
> (Not sure how to spell Verazzano. I should know. But the city recently discovered they’d been misspelling it all these years and corrected it, which makes it harder to remember which version is right.)
> 
> Anyhow, the Verazzano is not run by the Port Authority but by a different entity, now part of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which also runs the city transit system (buses, subway), suburban rail lines, and so on. I think most of their other bridges charge tolls both ways (the Robert F. Kennedy, formerly Triborough; the Bronx-Whitestone; and the Throgs Neck. The Henry Hudson Bridge and Queens-Midtown charge Manhattan-bound only. If I’m not mistaken.)


Verrazzano. Two r's and two z's.


----------



## siamu maharaj

rumcajs16 said:


> Leaving NYC via Staten Island is not free because you pay a toll entering Staten Island from Brooklyn via the Verrazano Narrows Bridge. Most traffic on the Staten Island Expressway is transit traffic either leaving or entering Brooklyn & Long Island, so most people are paying a toll one way or another.


I read it a long time ago, so memory could be wrong, but the tolls to/from Staten Island are set up the way they are because of demands from Staten Island residents. They also got some free ferry out of the deal.

Again, read about it more than a decade ago. So don't quote me on this.


----------



## Penn's Woods

siamu maharaj said:


> I read it a long time ago, so memory could be wrong, but the tolls to/from Staten Island are set up the way they are because of demands from Staten Island residents. They also got some free ferry out of the deal.
> 
> Again, read about it more than a decade ago. So don't quote me on this.




Yes, I believe they pay a lower rate.
I’m not sure if the ferry is free; haven’t been on it in a while. They may pay in one direction only. But if so it’s cheap. (I suppose I could look all this up, but I’m on my way out.)


----------



## xzmattzx

wgerman said:


> You only pay a toll if going into New York City, not leaving.............Strange.


More like you pay to leave New Jersey.


----------



## browntown

Penn's Woods said:


> And replaced a bridge built in the 20s. I grew up in New Jersey and have relatives in Staten Island; I’ve been crossing the Goethals several times a year for 50-plus years.


So you're saying we're still paying for the bridge built 90 years ago which no longer exists? Doesn't make any sense.


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## Penn's Woods

browntown said:


> So you're saying we're still paying for the bridge built 90 years ago which no longer exists? Doesn't make any sense.




The point is the new bridge was not paid for out of your taxes. As far as I know. It’s a facility of the Port Authority, which has always been self-supporting.


----------



## rumcajs16

browntown said:


> So you're saying we're still paying for the bridge built 90 years ago which no longer exists? Doesn't make any sense.


Please refer to the Toll section in the bridge's Wiki. You will find all relevant information there.

Edit: As mentioned by Penn, the structure is owned by Port Authority. Port Authority is funded - for the most part - via tolls & fees from all of its constituent parts. Therefore, we paid tolls on the old bridge despite having paid it off in the 60's because tolls were and remain the major source of income for the Port Authority.


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## g.spinoza

ChrisZwolle said:


> There is a sentiment that once a road is built, it will never need any expense again so tolling existing infrastructure is 'illegal'.
> 
> Many people also argue that once the original construction cost is paid off, the tolls should be removed, since maintenance or future expansions apparently doesn't cost anything.
> 
> Everyone wants more money for infrastructure but nobody wants to pay for it. That doesn't work...


Taxes are made for that.


----------



## Penn's Woods

browntown said:


> There absolutely ARE laws about tolling existing interstates. And it's nothing to do with being against infrastructure, it's just about having the costs be done in a fair manner instead of slapping a toll on an interstate to try and make people from out of state pay for your states infrastructure projects.




Some people may not understand that we’re a federal system here.


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## Abhishek901

browntown said:


> There absolutely ARE laws about tolling existing interstates. And it's nothing to do with being against infrastructure, it's just about having the costs be done in a fair manner instead of slapping a toll on an interstate to try and make people from out of state pay for your states infrastructure projects.


What's wrong with charging people from out of state? If they are using the road, then they also should pay for that infrastructure just like people from within the state pay for using that road.


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## xzmattzx

Tolls are a classic user fee. User fees are arguably the fairest taxes around; only people using something, whether it's a road, DMV, airport, etc, pay for them.

By the way, no one is forced to use an Interstate. There are surface streets. From a consumer's standpoint, you pay for the convenience of cutting down your travel time.

I don't like paying tolls like anyone else, but I am free to stay home and not travel anywhere, and I'm free to exit and add 30 minutes to my drive by going around a toll on surface roads.


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## browntown

Abhishek901 said:


> What's wrong with charging people from out of state? If they are using the road, then they also should pay for that infrastructure just like people from within the state pay for using that road.


What's wrong is charging a completely outsized toll on a road primarily used by out of state drivers and using that to fun local roads. It's just an attempt to tax people who don't have the ability to vote against the tax.


----------



## FM 2258

xzmattzx said:


> Tolls are a classic user fee. User fees are arguably the fairest taxes around; only people using something, whether it's a road, DMV, airport, etc, pay for them.
> 
> By the way, no one is forced to use an Interstate. There are surface streets. From a consumer's standpoint, you pay for the convenience of cutting down your travel time.
> 
> I don't like paying tolls like anyone else, but I am free to stay home and not travel anywhere, and I'm free to exit and add 30 minutes to my drive by going around a toll on surface roads.


I see your point yet I feel that it's also not easy where the line should be drawn regarding tolling roadways. If there were electronic tolling devices at every road intersection used to pay for roads I don't think many people would be happy with that. Then again we all pay through roads somehow through taxes. I think the idea of putting a toll gate on a road that used to be toll-free it could be disruptive. If a toll gate was put where I had to pay every time I entered and left the neighborhood it may be highly disruptive or over time I might get used to it.


----------



## xzmattzx

browntown said:


> What's wrong is charging a completely outsized toll on a road primarily used by out of state drivers and using that to fun local roads. It's just an attempt to tax people who don't have the ability to vote against the tax.


On the other hand, a non-tolled road is paid for by in-staters but can be used by out-of-staters. So either out-of-staters subsidize in-staters, or in-staters subsidize out-of-staters. Pick your poison.


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## Penn's Woods

xzmattzx said:


> On the other hand, a non-tolled road is paid for by in-staters but can be used by out-of-staters. So either out-of-staters subsidize in-staters, or in-staters subsidize out-of-staters. Pick your poison.




Out-of-staters pay sales tax if they’re in-state long enough. (And lodging taxes, gas tax...). At least in normal states, rather than Delaware. /jk

Heck, I’ve done my share of Pennsylvania tax avoidance along Naamans Road and 202 myself....


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## bd popeye

Paying tolls? No toll roads in Iowa. Now Illinois, in Chicagoland I swear every interstate is a tollhno: I understand why$$$$. Minnesota,Missouri & Nebraska..only have toll bridges. And not that many ..


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## Penn's Woods

bd popeye said:


> Paying tolls? No toll roads in Iowa. Now Illinois, in Chicagoland I swear every interstate is a tollhno: I understand why$$$$. Minnesota,Missouri & Nebraska..only have toll bridges. And not that many ..




A lot of toll roads in the region from New England to Rockford were built before there were Interstates, and therefore without federal funding.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 540, North Carolina*

* Complete 540 Project Breaks Ground *

Representatives from the North Carolina Department of Transportation, Turnpike Authority and surrounding communities gathered Wednesday afternoon to break ground on the Complete 540 project​. Construction will be completed in phases. The first phase will stretch from N.C. 55 Bypass to I-40, and the second will connect I-40 to U.S. 64/264 Bypass (I-87). This project, when complete, will connect the outer loop around the greater Raleigh area and provide a six-lane expressway that improves mobility and reduces congestion. 

Complete 540 will span through seven cities and will stretch 28 miles, extending the Triangle Expressway from N.C. 55 Bypass in Apex to U.S. 64/U.S. 264 (I-87) in Knightdale. The second phase of construction is expected to start in 2029. The estimated cost of the total project is $2.2 billion, which is being financed through toll revenue bonds and a low-interest loan from USDOT. 

The first phase could open to traffic as early as 2023.​
Press release: https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-11-13-complete-540-breaks-ground.aspx

_Mum's the word_ on whether this will be I-540 or NC-540.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^I-87?!


----------



## CNGL

^^ Yes, I-87. It has been duplicated since 2017. Previously it was known as I-495 for 4 years.


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## Penn's Woods

CNGL said:


> ^^ Yes, I-87. It has been duplicated since 2017. Previously it was known as I-495 for 4 years.




I wish we’d stop duplicating Interstate numbers. Forgetting about 3di’s

But 495? I knew there was a 795 there. But North Carolina long since passed the point where I could keep up with its Interstates.


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## ChrisZwolle

North Carolina is a fast-growing state and it adds Interstate Highways quite often, though some are unlikely to be completed within a forseeable time.

Relatively new additions are I-42, I-73, I-74, I-87, I-587, I-785, I-795, I-840 and I-885. 

A number of freeway projects are scheduled for completion in the near future, such as segments of I-295 around Fayetteville, I-840 around Greensboro, I-885 in Durham and non-Interstate freeways like NC-11 near Greenville, US 64 around Asheboro and the first stage of the Winston-Salem Beltway (future I-274).

Meanwhile North Carolina has recently opened several new freeway segments, such as I-73 near Greensboro, I-140 around Wilmington, I-295 around Fayetteville, US 70 around Goldsboro and US 74 around Monroe. 

And large projects are underway such as the I-26 Connector in Asheville, I-73/74 around Rockingham, I-77 widening north of Charlotte, I-85 eight lane widening northeast of Charlotte and now the I-540 project around Raleigh.

And I'm probably forgetting some. Things are happening in this state.


----------



## sponge_bob

bd popeye said:


> Paying tolls? No toll roads in Iowa.


I remember a dude from middle america telling me a story from the 1960s about his granpaw. 

Local congressman ran for office promising some flat farm bit of America an interstate of their very own, he got elected. Off he goes to the swamp. 

Soon afterwards an interstate was announced in his district and the congressman milked the publicity for yonks while them yellow caterpillars rolled along across the fields soon after. 

Dudes granpaw hears a knock on his door, the interstate had been approved by the military and the army was now come to tell granpaw that they were taking 20 acres from the corner of his farm, plus bits and pieces all over that county, for their newfangled missile silos that they were planning on building there. That was the only reason why the military approved that particular interstate in the first place.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> North Carolina is a fast-growing state and it adds Interstate Highways quite often, though some are unlikely to be completed within a forseeable time.
> 
> Relatively new additions are I-42, I-73, I-74, I-87, I-587, I-785, I-795, I-840 and I-885.
> 
> A number of freeway projects are scheduled for completion in the near future, such as segments of I-295 around Fayetteville, I-840 around Greensboro, I-885 in Durham and non-Interstate freeways like NC-11 near Greenville, US 64 around Asheboro and the first stage of the Winston-Salem Beltway (future I-274).
> 
> Meanwhile North Carolina has recently opened several new freeway segments, such as I-73 near Greensboro, I-140 around Wilmington, I-295 around Fayetteville, US 70 around Goldsboro and US 74 around Monroe.
> 
> And large projects are underway such as the I-26 Connector in Asheville, I-73/74 around Rockingham, I-77 widening north of Charlotte, I-85 eight lane widening northeast of Charlotte and now the I-540 project around Raleigh.
> 
> And I'm probably forgetting some. Things are happening in this state.




It’s hardly THE fastest growing state in the country, though, and nothing close to this is happening elsewhere.
I’m not complaining; it’s just a little annoying that, after having been able to keep the geography of the Interstate system in my head for 30-odd years, one state’s thrown me off the rails.
Same problem with telephone area codes. I used to know those.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I wouldn't underestimate North Carolina's growth though, it's now at 10.4 million people and on its way to overtake Ohio, Illinois and maybe even Pennsylvania within 2-3 decades at current growth rate. It is forecasted to reach 12 million inhabitants by 2035.

The 2010-2018 population growth of North Carolina was actually the 4th highest in the U.S. in real terms (+848,000 and slightly ahead of Georgia).


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## Kanadzie

> Dudes granpaw hears a knock on his door, the interstate had been approved by the military and the army was now come to tell granpaw that they were taking 20 acres from the corner of his farm, plus bits and pieces all over that county, for their newfangled missile silos that they were planning on building there. That was the only reason why the military approved that particular interstate in the first place.


Oh I remember those 
there was such a missile base near our country place in New York... but the nearest Interstate (or any 4-lane road) was maybe 50 km away...


----------



## browntown

xzmattzx said:


> On the other hand, a non-tolled road is paid for by in-staters but can be used by out-of-staters. So either out-of-staters subsidize in-staters, or in-staters subsidize out-of-staters. Pick your poison.


Not true. When they stop to buy gas the pay the same tax as everyone else.


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## Penn's Woods

Stupidity of the Day:

https://westfaironline.com/120998/w...-latimer-blasts-connecticuts-i-684-toll-plan/

Seriously, I don’t see how Connecticut can propose this with a straight face. 684 has no entrances or exits in Connecticut; it’s basically a New York road that cuts through Connecticut (it’s sort of forced to do so by a large reservoir). I can remember when the state line wasn’t even signed.


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## 00Zy99

Its actually rather fair from a certain perspective.

Connecticut is responsible for the maintenance and upkeep of that road. However, because there are no exits in Connecticut, it doesn't bring any taxable benefits to cover those costs.

So Connecticut is actually doing something rather fair.


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## Kanadzie

^^ both things are really stupid. Why not just "give" the roadway to NYSDOT (or maybe the Thruway Authority) ?
If I was running NYSDOT I'd build a bypass road along the border just to screw with them


----------



## Penn's Woods

00Zy99 said:


> Its actually rather fair from a certain perspective.
> 
> Connecticut is responsible for the maintenance and upkeep of that road. However, because there are no exits in Connecticut, it doesn't bring any taxable benefits to cover those costs.
> 
> So Connecticut is actually doing something rather fair.




Are you sure? I thought it belonged to New York. Specifically the Thruway Authority.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ both things are really stupid. Why not just "give" the roadway to NYSDOT (or maybe the Thruway Authority) ?
> If I was running NYSDOT I'd build a bypass road along the border just to screw with them




I thought it was part of the Thruway system, actually.


----------



## binhai

The short section of I-684 in Connecticut is owned by the Connecticut Department of Transportation, but maintenance and repairs to the stretch are performed by the New York State Department of Transportation, with the cost of maintenance being reimbursed to New York by Connecticut.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ which seems more than fair and reasonable, and makes the tolling proposal practically an act of war. Can Cuomo send the National Guard ?


----------



## Penn's Woods

Discuss:

https://wcbs880.radio.com/articles/shrinking-bqe-plan-calls-for-removing-lanes-from-expressway

(The BQE is part of I-278. But no one ever refers to it by number.)

It may be worth adding that since this was published, the mayor has announced he opposes the lane reduction.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-26, Asheville, North Carolina*

* Final Environmental Impact Statement Signed for I-26 Connector *

The N.C. Department of Transportation, in conjunction with the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA), has released the Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS) for the proposed I-26 Asheville Connector in Buncombe County.

The FEIS confirms the Preferred Alternative for all three sections of the project from the I-40/I-26/I-240 interchange to Future I-26 near Broadway Street.

Final federal approval of the project (I-2513) is anticipated this summer when the FHWA issues its Record of Decision. Right of way acquisition for parts of the project may begin this year, and transportation officials anticipate starting phased construction in the next few years.​
Full press release: https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-02-04-i-26-connector-feis.aspx

Project website: https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/asheville-i-26-connector/Pages/default.aspx

It's a $ 950 million project. 

Approximately 7 miles, the proposed I-26 Connector is an interstate freeway that would connect I-26 in southwest Asheville to U.S. 19/23/70 in northwest Asheville.

The proposed project involves three sections:

Section A, which involves upgrading I-240 (as well as interchanges at Brevard, Amboy and Haywood roads) – from the I-26/I-240 interchange with I-40 to the I-240 interchange with Patton Avenue – west of the French Broad River
Section B, which includes building the interstate on a new location from the Patton Avenue interchange north across the French Broad River, tying into U.S. 19/23/70 south of Broadway
Section C, which involves improvements to the I-40 interchanges with Smokey Park Highway, I-26/I-240 and Brevard Road

The I-26 Connector would be a median-divided, fully controlled-access freeway accessible only via interchanges. To reduce the required right-of-way, there would be a barrier median dividing opposing directions of travel.

Once complete, the freeway would be part of the I-26 Interstate that extends from Charleston, S.C., to Kingsport, Tenn.​


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-84 Oregon*

The Oregon Department of Transportation shared some photos of recent flooding along I-84 in the eastern part of the state.


Stranded vehicles on I-84 by Oregon Department of Transportation, on Flickr


Overhead view of flooding at Echo Meadows Road by Oregon Department of Transportation, on Flickr


Water covers the road by Oregon Department of Transportation, on Flickr


Swept off the road by floodwaters by Oregon Department of Transportation, on Flickr


----------



## pikoc89

ChrisZwolle said:


> * Final Environmental Impact Statement Signed for I-26 Connector *
> 
> The N.C. Department of Transportation, in conjunction with the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA), has released the Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS) for the proposed I-26 Asheville Connector in Buncombe County.
> 
> The FEIS confirms the Preferred Alternative for all three sections of the project from the I-40/I-26/I-240 interchange to Future I-26 near Broadway Street.
> 
> Final federal approval of the project (I-2513) is anticipated this summer when the FHWA issues its Record of Decision. Right of way acquisition for parts of the project may begin this year, and transportation officials anticipate starting phased construction in the next few years.​
> Full press release: https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-02-04-i-26-connector-feis.aspx
> 
> Project website: https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/asheville-i-26-connector/Pages/default.aspx
> 
> It's a $ 950 million project.
> 
> Approximately 7 miles, the proposed I-26 Connector is an interstate freeway that would connect I-26 in southwest Asheville to U.S. 19/23/70 in northwest Asheville.
> 
> The proposed project involves three sections:
> 
> Section A, which involves upgrading I-240 (as well as interchanges at Brevard, Amboy and Haywood roads) – from the I-26/I-240 interchange with I-40 to the I-240 interchange with Patton Avenue – west of the French Broad River
> Section B, which includes building the interstate on a new location from the Patton Avenue interchange north across the French Broad River, tying into U.S. 19/23/70 south of Broadway
> Section C, which involves improvements to the I-40 interchanges with Smokey Park Highway, I-26/I-240 and Brevard Road
> 
> The I-26 Connector would be a median-divided, fully controlled-access freeway accessible only via interchanges. To reduce the required right-of-way, there would be a barrier median dividing opposing directions of travel.
> 
> Once complete, the freeway would be part of the I-26 Interstate that extends from Charleston, S.C., to Kingsport, Tenn.​


This road basically exists now, they would just make another bridge over the French Broad River... The freeway is median divided and only interchanges exist on it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-610, Houston*

_Houston, we have a problem._ A water main broke.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1233128633130156032


----------



## Jschmuck

In between Madison and Janesville, WI there is this unique plot of real-estate which looks to be owned by DOT. It seems there was to be a roadway with 2 ramps: one westbound unnamed to NB-I-39/WB-I-90, and one SB-I-39/EB-I-90 to eastbound unnamed. I'm going to go ahead and assume this is where US-12 was supposed to connect with I-39/I-90 long ago. The site is currently being used to facilitate interstate reconstruction/expansion.








[/url]pic uploader[/IMG]

Here I have the area dotted in yellow:










Here I have referenced in a red line the possible ramps/roadway of what could have been US-12:








[/url]online image hosting[/IMG]


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## ChrisZwolle

Nice find. It looks like it could've been planned as a trumpet interchange, the radius would've been large enough for a westbound to southbound ramp and there was a curve drawn out for a northbound to eastbound ramp, which is better seen on older imagery in Google Earth.


----------



## mgk920

That indeed was where the never-built US 12 (originally to be I-90?) freeway was to connect. It was planned to be the major route running northwestward from Chicagoland, but ran into too many roadblocks in McHenry and western Lake Counties in Illinois. There are numerous visible shreds of that routing in Illinois, too, extending north from the existing IL 53 and I-290 freeway.

hno:

Mike


----------



## xzmattzx

You can see other ghost interchanges for this expressway (based on what you two have said above) just north of Elkhorn and just east of Genoa City, both in Wisconsin.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A new interchange along the Las Vegas Beltway (215) opened to traffic today at Losee Road: https://www.8newsnow.com/news/local-news/losee-215-interchange-now-open-for-traffic/

It is one of three interchanges built along the northern beltway of Las Vegas that are supposed to be completed in April, which means that the entire beltway of Las Vegas is becoming a full freeway. 

Here's a May 2019 satellite image of the project:


----------



## xzmattzx

^^ Will that get signed as I-215 when it's done?


----------



## perheps

Never mind.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^huh?


----------



## perheps

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^huh?


English not good but you can try work out .... sorry.

I am deaf and typewrite ugh... sorry.

Never mind.


----------



## Penn's Woods

perheps said:


> English not good but you can try work out .... sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> I am deaf and typewrite ugh... sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> Never mind.




I’m sorry, but I really couldn’t work it out.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Bay Area, 8:50 a.m. on a Tuesday.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Likewise, New York at 5:30 p.m. on a Thursday.


----------



## JMBasquiat

Chicago, 11:30 AM.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

From a cloverleaf to a DDI in Washington, Pennsylvania.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> From a cloverleaf to a DDI in Washington, Pennsylvania.


Why? And where?


----------



## [atomic]

here. My best guess is that merging from / to I 79 was an issue. This way there is only one on and off Ramp per side. They also improved the I 70 / I 79 interchange a bit further east with a flyover.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Just caught a reference on a New York traffic report to “Sheridan Boulevard, or ‘the Sheridan,’ as we used to call it.” Went to Google Maps.... What was Interstate 895, the Sheridan Expressway, in the Bronx (New York City), is indeed now Sheridan Boulevard, NY 895. I can’t tell what else has been done; it still looks like a freeway, although the pavement may be new.

I’d heard years ago that they were considering downgrading it, but didn’t know it was happening.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

At least three intersections with pedestrian crossings have been created on former I-895.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> At least three intersections with pedestrian crossings have been created on former I-895.


I’ll have to look closer. Unless the imagery’s out of date.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The imagery in both Google Earth and Google Maps is older.

This is the new situation:


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> The imagery in both Google Earth and Google Maps is older.
> 
> This is the new situation:


Oh! Yeah, I didn’t see that.


----------



## Jschmuck

Google Maps Street View shows the intersections with new pavement, dated November 2019.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Two Pennsylvania Turnpike items:










PA Turnpike to reopen service plazas on Friday


The Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission announced that it will reopen its service plazas on Friday, after they were briefly shutdown to help mitigate the spread of COVID-19. All 17 of the PA Turnpike service plazas will be reopened Friday at 7 a. m. , according to a news release, and restrooms...




wjactv.com














Man charged with driving on abandoned section of PA Turnpike


ACumberland County man has been charged with trying to take a ride through history. Pennsylvania State Police said Sunday that Ivan Fowler, 27, was charged Thursday with simple trespassing after someone told state police he posted pictures of himself cutting open a lock to an access gate forthe...




wjactv.com


----------



## xzmattzx

Penn's Woods said:


> PA Turnpike to reopen service plazas on Friday
> 
> 
> The Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission announced that it will reopen its service plazas on Friday, after they were briefly shutdown to help mitigate the spread of COVID-19. All 17 of the PA Turnpike service plazas will be reopened Friday at 7 a. m. , according to a news release, and restrooms...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wjactv.com


Nice. A little return to normal.


----------



## Penn's Woods

xzmattzx said:


> Nice. A little return to normal.


Right? The New Jersey Turnpike’s have stayed open, although with some shops closed and seating removed. You can get carry-out and eat in the car.


----------



## xzmattzx

Penn's Woods said:


> Right? The New Jersey Turnpike’s have stayed open, although with some shops closed and seating removed. You can get carry-out and eat in the car.


Are bathrooms open?


----------



## Penn's Woods

xzmattzx said:


> Are bathrooms open?


Yes. I’ve used the Woodrow Wilson service area, including the men’s room, as recently as last week. That’s the one that’s northbound between the Pennsylvania Turnpike connector and 195.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-405 and the Fremont Bridge in Portland, Oregon.


I-405 interchange with U.S. 30 in northwest Portland by Oregon Department of Transportation, on Flickr


Fremont Bridge over the Willamette River by Oregon Department of Transportation, on Flickr


Heading on to the Fremont Bridge by Oregon Department of Transportation, on Flickr


The interchange by Oregon Department of Transportation, on Flickr


View of the Fremont Bridge by Oregon Department of Transportation, on Flickr


View of the bridge with no traffic by Oregon Department of Transportation, on Flickr


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^That speed limit sign in the third picture looks very Canadian.


----------



## Abhishek901

The signs look same to me in both countries. At least in Ontario, they write MAXIMUM instead of SPEED. Sometimes they also write km/hr under the speed.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Abhishek901 said:


> The signs look same to me in both countries. At least in Ontario, they write MAXIMUM instead of SPEED. Sometimes they also write km/hr under the speed.


The font looks like what you use - it’s too vertical for us - and ours would say “SPEED LIMIT.”


----------



## mrsmartman

*Eisenhower–Edwin C. Johnson Memorial Tunnel*
_The longest mountain tunnel and highest point on the Interstate Highway System_










*American Truck Simulator - Colorado*


















Our Trip To Colorado


SCS Software's official blog - information, screens & movies from our truck simulator games Euro Truck Simulator 2 and American Truck Simulator.




blog.scssoft.com


----------



## Penn's Woods

PA Turnpike to go cashless permanently, laying off 500 toll collectors


About 500 fare collectors and other toll workers along the Pennsylvania Turnpike are about to those their jobs. The Turnpike Commission voted Tuesday to make the entire interstate network a cashless system.




whyy.org


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Arkansas will raise the speed limit to 75 mph on rural Interstate Highways. Almost the entire system is included.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Now the real question is when the Northeast US will leave the 65mph era.. Getting a little old, especially with Ontario moving towards a ~68mph limit even.

I thoroughly enjoy driving in Michigan, even with the roads being in terrible condition, due to the 75mph speed limit. Doing 85mph down the freeway consistently is like a dream come true coming from the backwater 62mph limit Ontario...


----------



## g.spinoza

ChrisZwolle said:


> Arkansas will raise the speed limit to 75 mph on rural Interstate Highways. Almost the entire system is included.


Aren't Interstates managed by the Federation? Speed limits can be imposed by the single state?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Speed limits are set by the states, because they maintain all state highways, which includes all U.S. Highways and Interstate Highways. The federal government does not maintain those. 

So while US Highways and Interstate Highways are numbered in a national system, they are owned and operated by the states, not the federal government.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Innsertnamehere said:


> Now the real question is when the Northeast US will leave the 65mph era.. Getting a little old, especially with Ontario moving towards a ~68mph limit even.
> 
> I thoroughly enjoy driving in Michigan, even with the roads being in terrible condition, due to the 75mph speed limit. Doing 85mph down the freeway consistently is like a dream come true coming from the backwater 62mph limit Ontario...


It’s 70 on much of the Pennsylvania Turnpike.


----------



## Penn's Woods

g.spinoza said:


> Aren't Interstates managed by the Federation? Speed limits can be imposed by the single state?


Most funding for the Interstate system comes from the feds. Using the present tense because that includes new construction, improvements, maintenance.... But the states actually run them.

The feds can constitutionally set a national speed limit; that’s how we had the ridiculous nationwide 55 m.p.h. (88 km/h) from roughly 1973 till 87...actually into the 90s because “rural Interstates” were an exception to the limit that was otherwise still in effect. (They can also do it back-handedly through the “spending power”: Deny funding to any state that doesn’t set a certain limit. That’s how we have a national drinking age. But I think 55 was a straightforward exercise of their jurisdiction over interstate commerce.) But at the moment it’s a state matter because the feds aren’t doing anything. Which is fine with me.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> Speed limits are set by the states, because they maintain all state highways, which includes all U.S. Highways and Interstate Highways. The federal government does not maintain those.
> 
> So while US Highways and Interstate Highways are numbered in a national system, they are owned and operated by the states, not the federal government.


And there’s nothing at all federal about the U.S. highways. That was simply a national numbering system for roads of national importance, established about 1924 by agreement among the states’ highway officials.


----------



## Barciur

It is interesting to see US states moving to higher speed limits where it seems like the EU is moving to lower. Didn't one of the Benelux countries recently move to 100 km/h on all of its highways?


----------



## g.spinoza

Penn's Woods said:


> Most funding for the Interstate system comes from the feds. Using the present tense because that includes new construction, improvements, maintenance.... But the states actually run them.


Isn't this a little unfair to the states? I'm thinking of sparsely populated states that have to manage expensive pieces of infrastructure, like Colorado with Eisenhower tunnel and the Glenwood Canyon on the I-70, they didn't choose to build.


----------



## Penn's Woods

g.spinoza said:


> Isn't this a little unfair to the states? I'm thinking of sparsely populated states that have to manage expensive pieces of infrastructure, like Colorado with Eisenhower tunnel and the Glenwood Canyon on the I-70, they didn't choose to build.


But again, that’s funded by the feds. And they do get the use of the roads. Look at a map of the western U.S. and western Canada: Montana, Wyoming, the Dakotas have freeways; Canada doesn’t have much between the Great Lakes and southwestern British Columbia outside of Alberta. I’ve always assumed it was the lack of something comparable to the Interstate system in Canada that accounts for that.

Colorado’s not that sparsely populated by American standards, even if most of the population is concentrated along the base of the Rockies. And I’m guessing most users of that tunnel are in-state.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

From 1956 there was a 90/10 formula: 90% of the cost was paid by the federal government with a 10% state / local match. 

However I don't think this still applies today, as the Interstate system is considered more or less completed since the early 1990s. My idea is that projects are still eligible for federal funding, but this also comes with federal regulations so some states opt to fund freeways through local taxes, most commonly a regional sales tax.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Barciur said:


> It is interesting to see US states moving to higher speed limits where it seems like the EU is moving to lower. Didn't one of the Benelux countries recently move to 100 km/h on all of its highways?


The Netherlands dropped from - was it 120? - to 100. I think it’s only daytime, though. I’m sure @ChrisZwolle will drop into this thread and tell us.
The limit on the part of the Brussels Ring that’s in the Flemish Region has been lowered, or is being lowered, as well. (I follow Belgian news because I like the country, and I’ve seen items about this recently.)


----------



## Penn's Woods

I was trying to figure out the funding rule - I thought it was still 90/10. This article isn’t clear to me on that point, but there’s some other stuff some may find interesting:





__





Interstate Frequently Asked Questions - 50th Anniversary - Interstate System - Highway History - Federal Highway Administration







www.fhwa.dot.gov


----------



## g.spinoza

Penn's Woods said:


> But again, that’s funded by the feds. And they do get the use of the roads. Look at a map of the western U.S. and western Canada: Montana, Wyoming, the Dakotas have freeways; Canada doesn’t have much between the Great Lakes and southwestern British Columbia outside of Alberta. I’ve always assumed it was the lack of something comparable to the Interstate system in Canada that accounts for that.


My mistake: I thought that by "funded" you meant only construction, not maintenance, too.



> Colorado’s not that sparsely populated by American standards, even if most of the population is concentrated along the base of the Rockies. And I’m guessing most users of that tunnel are in-state.


I know, what I meant is that the territory is vast and the population not so much, so if the system was managed by state's taxpayers it may became more expensive per capita than, say, Massachusetts' or Delaware's.


----------



## Penn's Woods

g.spinoza said:


> My mistake: I thought that by "funded" you meant only construction, not maintenance, too.
> 
> 
> I know, what I meant is that the territory is vast and the population not so much, so if the system was managed by state's taxpayers it may became more expensive per capita than, say, Massachusetts' or Delaware's.


For that matter, those states don’t have natural obstacles of the magnitude of the Rockies....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The first DDI of Alabama has opened to traffic on I-10 and Alabama 181, near Spanish Fort.









Diverging diamond interchange opens


SPANISH FORT – After two years of construction and a major interstate exit being closed for more than two days the diverging diamond interchange at Malbis opened early on the morning of Wednesday, July 1.




www.gulfcoastnewstoday.com















__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1278386356738297859


----------



## Abhishek901

keokiracer said:


> Then drive 60, nobody is forcing you to drive 80.


I can drive at 60 but what about an oncoming car at 80? It is still too narrow to pass at a relative speed of 60+80.


----------



## devo

Abhishek901 said:


> I can drive at 60 but what about an oncoming car at 80? It is still too narrow to pass at a relative speed of 60+80.


It is the general speed limit. Same in Norway, with even narrower, windier roads and gravel surface, you can be sure some rally enthusiast is heading your way close to 80 km/h. I think this is from a border between NI/Ireland, these signs are sometimes the only indication (switch between miles and km/h). It might also be from a city limit, notice the back of the city entrance sign.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The last deck span of the first arch bridge of I-74 across the Mississippi River in Davenport, Iowa was raised today.


----------



## mgk920

ChrisZwolle said:


> The last deck span of the first arch bridge of I-74 across the Mississippi River in Davenport, Iowa was raised today.


For those unaware, the new bridge is the first of two identical paralleling spans that will replace the twin suspension bridges in the background, which will be demoed. The Mississippi River here is the Illinois-Iowa state line in the Quad Cities metro area, with the I-74 crossing connecting Moline, IL with Bettendorf, IA. This photo was shot from the Iowa side. The Mississippi River downstream from Minneapolis-Saint Paul, MN is a major freight carrying corridor with large tows of barges of bulk commodities passing through here every few hours, thus the long spans on bridges that cross it.

Location: Google Maps

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Diverging Diamond Interchanges (DDIs) are becoming more mainstream and popping up all over the country. One will open soon on I-5 in Lacey, Washington.









Washington's first diverging diamond interchange opening soon in Lacey


The Marvin Road overpass of I-5 in Lacey will be the first diverging diamond in Washington when its scheduled to open in about a week and a half.



mynorthwest.com









__





Search projects | WSDOT


Learn about current transportation network improvement and preservation activities throughout the state.




www.wsdot.wa.gov


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Oklahoma Turnpike Authority has approved a speed limit of 80 mph on several sections on the turnpike system.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 295 - Fayetteville Outer Loop*

A new section of the Fayetteville Outer Loop in North Carolina will open to traffic soon, a 2.7 mile segment between Cliffdale Road and Raeford Road (US 401) on the west side of Fayetteville.


FOL segment Cliffdale to Raeford Road by NCDOTcommunications, on Flickr


FOL new segment south of Cliffdale by NCDOTcommunications, on Flickr


FOL aerial of new segment by NCDOTcommunications, on Flickr


----------



## VITORIA MAN

Nice road


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The first DDI in Washington state, at the I-5 / SR-510 interchange in Lacey.


I-5 - SR 510 Interchange - Reconstruct Interchange by Washington State Dept of Transportation, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Future I-74, Winston-Salem, North Carolina*

More news from North Carolina. The first segment of the future I-74 around Winston-Salem, also known as the 'Northern Beltway' will finally open to traffic 'by Labor Day'. This segment runs between US 421 and US 158 was originally planned to be completed in 2018. The article also says that a next stage between US 158 and US 311 could open before Christmas. The rest of the freeway to future I-74 north of Winston-Salem is also under construction and is scheduled to be completed in stages in late 2021 and 2022.









Six lanes opening next month are Winston-Salem's first taste of the beltway. Here's what the road looks like so far.


The first 3.5 miles of the Winston-Salem Northern Beltway will open by Labor Day, state highway officials say, providing a high-speed connection between Salem Parkway and U.S. 158, Reidsville Road.




journalnow.com


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 75, Ohio*

A new DDI has recently opened to traffic on I-75 north of Cincinnati, at the Union Centre Boulevard exit.











__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287772735477878785


----------



## ttownfeen

Exit 2/Camp Creek Parkway on I-285 in Atlanta has been converted to DDI as well.


----------



## JMBasquiat

> In case you missed it this morning: The Martin Luther King Bridge across the Mississippi River to St. Louis will be open to traffic tomorrow morning (Aug. 19). District 8 crews are busy getting everything ready for the big day.





> EAST ST. LOUIS — The Martin Luther King (MLK) Bridge as well as all ramps leading to and from the bridge reopened around 5 a.m. Wednesday.
> 
> The project included the removal and replacement of a bridge carrying traffic over I-55/64 westbound, Missouri Avenue, three railroad tracks and the Illinois 3 Spur. In addition to the new bridge, the project also included extensive repairs to the ramps and several other bridges.
















__





登录或注册即可查看


到 Facebook 查看帖子、照片和更多内容。




www.facebook.com













Martin Luther King Bridge again open


EAST ST. LOUIS — The Martin Luther King (MLK) Bridge as well as all ramps leading to...




www.thetelegraph.com


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Winston-Salem Northern Beltway*

This will be future Interstate 74 around Winston-Salem, North Carolina.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1301915976657707009


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 480, Cleveland, Ohio*

The center span of the Valley View Bridge has opened to traffic yesterday.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1304757197705011200
The Valley View Bridge needs a major rehab but they can't close one span, so they built a new span in the center, which has now opened to traffic. It is one of the largest bridges in Ohio.The bridge will provide 12 lanes once the project is completed.


Interstate 480 Bridge over Cuyahoga River Valley by Nicholas Eckhart, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Tolls in New Jersey became much more expensive this weekend:









Pay up, NJ! Toll hikes take effect on state's 3 major highways


New Jersey drivers should expect to reach for a little extra pocket change when taking the state's major highways starting Sunday.




abc7ny.com





There is a 36% rise in the toll rates on the New Jersey Turnpike and a 27% rise on the Garden State Parkway.

_The higher tolls will fund a $24 billion construction plan that includes $16 billion to widen sections of the turnpike and parkway, permanently implement cashless toll payment and replace a bridge between New Jersey and Pennsylvania. _

This is the second major toll hike within a decade, the tolls went up by 53% on the Turnpike and 50% on the Parkway in 2012:









New Year gift from the N.J. Turnpike Authority: Higher tolls


As of today, there will be a 53 percent toll hike on the New Jersey Turnpike and 50 percent increase on the Garden State Parkway




www.nj.com


----------



## browntown

New Jersey is such a fucking joke. It's like the only solution they know is to raise taxes and fees.


----------



## Penn's Woods

browntown said:


> New Jersey is such a fucking joke. It's like the only solution they know is to raise taxes and fees.


Yeah, the state I’ve spent most of the pandemic in is such a joke that it’s in a position to make people from the ex-Confederacy and other hick states (which the Northeast has been subsidizing forever) quarantine when they come up here.


----------



## browntown

Penn's Woods said:


> Yeah, the state I’ve spent most of the pandemic in is such a joke that it’s in a position to make people from the ex-Confederacy and other hick states (which the Northeast has been subsidizing forever) quarantine when they come up here.


New Jersey has the highest fatality rate from COVID of any state or county in the entire world.

And it's just a fact that every infrastructure project here is a massive boondoggle. 10 years to redo an interchange that would take 18 months (and 10th the cost) in Texas.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I recall that New Jersey also had the cheapest gas in the northeast, but they also raised the gas tax substantially. 

New Jersey has a lot of ageing infrastructure and at the same time high traffic volumes, so replacement, maintenance and expansion cost is high. I don't know how long that construction plan of the NJTA is, but $ 24 billion for basically two highways is a huge investment, even when spread out over 5 or 10 years.


----------



## JMBasquiat

> You are looking at the remake in progress of the interchange of Interstate 80 and US 30 in Will County, one of the country’s busiest freight corridors.
> 
> Efforts now are focused on extending a third lane on I-80 in each direction from about I-355 through US 30. The entire project wraps up a year from now.
> 
> Admire the photo but keep your eyes on the road and slow down going through this and all other work zones.











Illinois Department of Transportation


Illinois Department of Transportation, Спрингфилд (Иллинойс). Отметки "Нравится": 121 171 · Обсуждают: 2 164 · Посетили: 1 526. Official Facebook Page of the Illinois Department of Transportation. We...




www.facebook.com


----------



## Penn's Woods

A purely local issue perhaps:









I-76 lane shuts down through end of year to reduce highway flooding


The double median along a mile of Schuylkill Expressway in University City allows water to pool, PennDOT says.




 billypenn.com


----------



## ChrisZwolle

And another state opens its first diverging diamond interchange (DDI). It's the I-40 / SH 6 interchange in Elk City, Oklahoma. 

I haven't found any good recent photos yet.









Oklahoma opens first diverging diamond highway interchange in Elk City


ELK CITY — Oklahoma's first diverging diamond interchange is now open at the interchange between Interstate 40 and State Highway 6/Main Street in Elk City. A diverging diamond interchange differs f…



oklahoman.com


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> And another state opens its first diverging diamond interchange (DDI). It's the I-40 / SH 6 interchange in Elk City, Oklahoma.
> 
> I haven't found any good recent photos yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oklahoma opens first diverging diamond highway interchange in Elk City
> 
> 
> ELK CITY — Oklahoma's first diverging diamond interchange is now open at the interchange between Interstate 40 and State Highway 6/Main Street in Elk City. A diverging diamond interchange differs f…
> 
> 
> 
> oklahoman.com


The one time I went through one - I-66 at US 15 in Haymarket, Virginia, if memory serves - I found it confusing. Maybe in part because I’d used that exit before and wasn’t expecting it because it used to have a more conventional configuration.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-20 / I-26, Columbia, South Carolina*

News about the 'Malfunction Junction', or Carolina Crossroads Interchange as SCDOT calls it. It's a $ 1.6 billion project.



https://www.thestate.com/news/traffic/article245914475.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-10, San Antonio, Texas*

The first HOV lanes of San Antonio open to traffic within a few days. They are located on I-10 on the northwest side of San Antonio.

It was originally planned to expand I-10 from four to eight lanes by using managed toll lanes, but after politicial pressure was mounting against toll roads, the tolls were dropped and the project was changed to three general purpose lanes and one HOV lane each way. 

The widening project is only about six miles (10 km) long from Ralph Fair Road to La Cantera Parkway just outside of Loop 1604.









San Antonio's first HOV lane is set to open in just days


SAN ANTONIO- San Antonio is now just days away from opening their first ever HOV lane. The HOV lane openings are just one part of a $70,000,000 project to help widen I-10 from FM 3351 (Ralph Fair Road) to La Cantera Parkway. It will expand I-10 to eight lanes by adding one HOV lane and one...




news4sanantonio.com


----------



## JMBasquiat

> MOUNT VERNON - The Illinois Department of Transportation today announced that the ongoing and future expansion of Interstate 57 from Mount Vernon to Johnston City highlights a commitment to improve safety, reduce congestion and encourage economic growth throughout the region. The project is separated into six segments, representing a total investment of $257.8 million for southern Illinois, with $224 million coming from Gov. JB Pritzker's Rebuild Illinois capital program.
> 
> "With the Rebuild Illinois capital plan, Illinois isn't just making temporary repairs and patching up existing infrastructure, it's investing for the future," said Gov. Pritzker. "Rebuild Illinois is the beginning of an effort to improve and replace roads and bridges and provide jobs throughout the entire state. By undertaking the I-57 expansion and other projects in the years to come, IDOT will ultimately create safer roads for Jefferson, Franklin and Williamson counties."
> 
> *Five of the six I-57 expansion segments are ongoing or upcoming, with one already completed. Each segment includes widening I-57 to three lanes in each direction and replacing key bridges:*
> 
> • Milepost 63 to milepost 66 with new structures over Pond Creek, scheduled for completion in the fall of 2022.
> • Milepost 67 to milepost 75 with new structures over Big Muddy River, scheduled to start in 2022.
> • Milepost 75 to milepost 85 with new structures over Marcum Branch and Gun Creek, scheduled to start in 2024.
> • Milepost 85 to milepost 92 with new structures over Dodds Creek, scheduled to start in 2023.
> • Milepost 58.6 to milepost 63 widening to three lanes in each direction was completed in fall 2020.
> • The reconstruction of the I-57/64/Illinois 15 interchange is scheduled to start in 2025.
> 
> In addition, later this year IDOT is embarking on a major renovation of the Trail of Tears rest areas on I-57 in Union County, which includes greatly expanding and enhancing truck parking.











Illinois News - Illinois.gov







www2.illinois.gov


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It meets up with an existing segment of six lane I-57 at Johnston City. Just south of there is a somewhat more densely populated area around Carbondale and Marion, which has a combined population of circa 120,000.


----------



## Jschmuck

Add on to that micropolitan area the through-traffic of I-64 east bound heading toward I-24 and I-24 traffic heading toward I-64 West. In other words, there is an invisible multiplex on I-57 in this area between the I-57/I-24 interchange and the I-57/I-64 west interchange. I have been through this area many times, there is a good amount of through traffic and truck traffic. It is the preferred route to get from St. Louis, Kansas City and maybe even further west to go towards Atlanta.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Jschmuck said:


> Add on to that micropolitan area the through-traffic of I-64 east bound heading toward I-24 and I-24 traffic heading toward I-64 West. In other words, there is an invisible multiplex on I-57 in this area between the I-57/I-24 interchange and the I-57/I-64 west interchange. I have been through this area many times, there is a good amount of through traffic and truck traffic. It is the preferred route to get from St. Louis, Kansas City and maybe even further west to go towards Atlanta.


Doesn’t Saint Louis appear as a control city on I-24 in Nashville?


----------



## Jschmuck

Penn's Woods said:


> Doesn’t Saint Louis appear as a control city on I-24 in Nashville?


I'm not sure, after a quick Streetview search all I could see were Louisville and Clarksville for the northbound routes.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Jschmuck said:


> I'm not sure, after a quick Streetview search all I could see were Louisville and Clarksville for the northbound routes.


This may be based on the one time I was -in- Nashville, in 1987.


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

Are a high proportion of interchanges in the US now constructed as DDIs or is it that they're still an unusual/interesting design, so that's what gets posted here rather than diamonds, parclos, dumbbells and SPUIs?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

DDIs are rapidly gaining ground, many states opened their first ones over the last few years and it appears to be a preferred design in some states if interchange reconstruction is needed. 

Another trend is the removal of cloverleaf interchanges on regular exits. Especially if they do not have any collector/distributor system, which creates weaving problems. I believe the U.S. is one of the few countries that has used cloverleafs fairly extensively on freeway-to-regular road interchanges.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The new Gerald Desmond Bridge of I-710 in Long Beach will be inaugurated today. The traffic opening is scheduled for Monday (Oct. 5)

The location of the bridge: OpenStreetMap


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 12, Louisiana*

*Gov. Edwards, DOTD Break Ground on I-12 Expansion in St. Tammany Parish*

_October 05, 2020_

Today, Gov. John Bel Edwards and Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development Secretary Shawn D. Wilson, Ph.D., joined local, state and federal leaders to celebrate the beginning of construction on the highly anticipated widening and overlay of Interstate 12 in St. Tammany Parish. The ceremony was held at Church of the King, which is located at the beginning of the project.

Phase one, which began construction in early May, will widen I-12 from LA 59 to U.S. 190. Phase two, which will widen I-12 from U.S. 190 to LA 21, is expected to begin construction in the coming weeks.
Phase three includes I-12 from LA 21 to LA 1077. Phase three does not have an anticipated letting date as a funding source has not been identified yet.

Full press release: Gov. Edwards, DOTD Break Ground on I-12 Expansion in St. Tammany Parish | Office of Governor John Bel Edwards

A map with all three phases:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-710, Gerald Desmond Bridge, Long Beach, California*

Some photos from the 'Grand Opening':


GDBRP Grand Opening Ceremony by newgdbridge, on Flickr


GDBRP Grand Opening Ceremony by newgdbridge, on Flickr


GDBRP Grand Opening Ceremony by newgdbridge, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 17, Arizona*

*ADOT opens Diverging Diamond interchange I-17, Happy Valley Road *

The state’s first major Diverging Diamond traffic interchange at Interstate 17 and Happy Valley Road in north Phoenix has opened to traffic, according to the Arizona Department of Transportation. 

ADOT is nearing completion on a $50 million project to reconstruct the I-17 interchanges at Happy Valley Road and Pinnacle Peak Road. I-17 also has been widened by one lane in each direction between Happy Valley and Pinnacle Peak roads. Work on the project started in November 2018.

Full release:






ADOT opens Diverging Diamond interchange I-17, Happy Valley Road | ADOT







azdot.gov





It's characterized as the state's first 'major' DDI. The South Mountain Freeway (Loop 202) features two half DDIs at South Desert Foothills Parkway and South 17th Avenue. This one at Happy Valley Road is the first that also carries through traffic on the DDI.


----------



## xzmattzx

Interstate 49 in Fort Smith, Arkansas


----------



## Penn's Woods

Whoa!









Report: Proposed Md. toll lanes could cost drivers more than $2 per mile along common commuter routes - WTOP News


For the trip from the intersection of Maryland’s Route 85 in Frederick to I-370 in Rockville along I-270, about 22 miles, the rush hour cost could be over $2 per mile according to one construction plan.




wtop.com


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's a bit clickbaity. These express lanes have variable toll rates, there are already many of them on the Virginia side. However these quoted tolls are likely paid by only a very small percentage of all users. They use this mechanism to deter drivers from using the lanes if they are filling up to the point that they become congested. Sometimes these toll rates apply for only a few minutes, similar to reports of the $ 40 tolls on I-66. They guarantee free-flow traffic.

The anti-toll advocates always use the term 'Lexus lanes' which is outright misleading. The vast majority of vehicles using them are not luxury cars, but regular everyday cars. People just value their time more than the toll rate when they freely decide on their own will to use them.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> That's a bit clickbaity. These express lanes have variable toll rates, there are already many of them on the Virginia side. However these quoted tolls are likely paid by only a very small percentage of all users. They use this mechanism to deter drivers from using the lanes if they are filling up to the point that they become congested. Sometimes these toll rates apply for only a few minutes, similar to reports of the $ 40 tolls on I-66. They guarantee free-flow traffic.
> 
> The anti-toll advocates always use the term 'Lexus lanes' which is outright misleading. The vast majority of vehicles using them are not luxury cars, but regular everyday cars. People just value their time more than the toll rate when they freely decide on their own will to use them.


WTOP is a reasonably serious all-news radio station. Listened to them all the time when I was in college in Washington during the 80s. I’m not disagreeing (or agreeing) with you about this item being clickbaity, just offering that for context.

I was last on 66, or in the Washington area at all, in January. I -think- I’ve seen what you might call variable-toll-rate signs on 66, and also on 95 at the junction with Maryland 200....

Haven’t been on 270 in a few years.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I'm aware of WTOP's standing, unfortunately almost all media are involved in the clickbait war (each trying to capture people's attention, which means revenue). 

But it's kind of sad that this incorrect characterization of 'Lexus lanes' still gets a platform almost every time. Most drivers do not use the express lanes at their most expensive times on a daily basis, just at times when they need to get anywhere quick and convenient and the cost is worth it to them, even when it cost the equivalent of $ 100 per hour.

There was a study in Minnesota that a higher posted toll actually attracted drivers, because they thought that higher tolls meant that the main lanes are more congested and that taking the tolled express lanes might be worth it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Even Vermont is getting its first DDI:





__





Exit 16 Diverging Diamond Interchange | VTrans







www.exit16ddi.vtransprojects.vermont.gov


----------



## jorvim

Nice video about the new express lanes at I66 outside the Beltway


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 64, Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel*

Another megaproject is breaking ground in Virginia today. The I-64 Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel expansion project:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 680, California*

The fourth northbound lane on I-680 across the 'Sunol Grade' just outside of San Jose opened to traffic today. This was considered one of the worst bottlenecks in the entire country. The 4th lane will operate as a carpool lane until next year, when it becomes a tolled express lane, similar to the southbound lane which opened earlier.









New fourth lane opening Thursday on Interstate 680 at Sunol Grade: Roadshow


It opens as a regular carpool lane but will be converted to an express or toll lane next year.




www.mercurynews.com


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 635, Dallas, Texas*

A groundbreaking ceremony is held today to commence the widening of 11 miles of I-635 on the east side of Dallas. 

It is a $ 1.7 billion project to widen I-635 by one lane in each direction, provide continuous frontage roads of 2-3 lanes in each direction and reconstruct the I-30 interchange. The whole project is scheduled to be completed by late 2024. 

It's one of the many major road projects in Texas that hit a snag with the moratorium on new tolls, I believe it was scaled back from the original 2+2 managed toll lanes that were planned. $ 1.7 billion seems like a lot of money for just one additional freeway lane in each direction.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1321906012572536854


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 15, Salt Lake City - Lehi, Utah*

*Six Lanes Now Open on I-15 Tech Corridor*

Six lanes are now open in each direction through the I-15 Technology Corridor project, from S.R. 92 to Main Street in Lehi – the last section of I-15 to be widened to six lanes between Bangerter Highway and Orem. Construction on the $415 million project began in May 2018 and is on schedule for completion in late 2020.


Eliminated a bottleneck by adding two lanes in each direction on I-15 between Lehi Main Street and Timpanogos Highway (S.R. 92). The additional two lanes on I-15 will keep Utah moving and improve quality of life for residents and commuters. 
Replaced aging infrastructure with new pavement on I-15 that is designed to last another 40 years.
Built 17 bridges, including a new bridge over I-15 at Triumph Boulevard. Bridges were redesigned to accommodate more lanes on I-15, the frontage road system and new active transportation features, and are designed to last 75 years.
Improved local traffic flow for businesses and residents with a new one-way frontage road system between 2100 North and S.R. 92, the first of its kind in Utah. 
Redesigned interchanges at S.R. 92 and 2100 North and added several new on- and off-ramps between the two interchanges, to make it easier for drivers to get on and off the freeway as well as cross underneath it.





__





Six Lanes Now Open on I-15 Tech Corridor


Six lanes are now open in each direction through the I-15 Technology Corridor project, from S.R. 92 to Main Street in Lehi – the last section of I-15 to be widened to six lanes between Bangerter Highway and Orem. Construction on the $415 million project began in May 2018 and is on schedule for...




www.udot.utah.gov


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 278, New York City*

Tolling on the Verrazzano-Narrows Bridge will revert back to two-way tolling. The current $ 19 westbound toll will be split into $ 9.50 each way.

The tolls were originally in both directions, but changed to westbound only in 1986 to reduce traffic congestion on Staten Island. With electronic tolling, it can be charged in both directions again, closing a loophole for long-distance traffic. According to traffic counts eastbound (non-toll) carries 7,000 vehicles per day more than westbound.

The $ 19 toll applies to pay-by-mail. The E-ZPass toll rate is $ 12.24, Staten Islanders with an E-ZPass even pay only $ 5.50 and carpoolers even less at $ 3.40.









Exclusive: Split tolling on Verrazzano to start Dec. 1


Motorists will not be charged any more under the plan than they currently are under one-way tolling.




www.silive.com


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> *Interstate 278, New York City*
> 
> Tolling on the Verrazzano-Narrows Bridge will revert back to two-way tolling. The current $ 19 westbound toll will be split into $ 9.50 each way.
> 
> The tolls were originally in both directions, but changed to westbound only in 1986 to reduce traffic congestion on Staten Island. With electronic tolling, it can be charged in both directions again, closing a loophole for long-distance traffic. According to traffic counts eastbound (non-toll) carries 7,000 vehicles per day more than westbound.
> 
> The $ 19 toll applies to pay-by-mail. The E-ZPass toll rate is $ 12.24, Staten Islanders with an E-ZPass even pay only $ 5.50 and carpoolers even less at $ 3.40.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exclusive: Split tolling on Verrazzano to start Dec. 1
> 
> 
> Motorists will not be charged any more under the plan than they currently are under one-way tolling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.silive.com


It wasn’t that much of a loophole for anyone coming from farther than Staten Island, since the tolls on the bridges connecting it to New Jersey are collected eastbound (southbound on the Bayonne Bridge) only: Unless your trip began on Staten Island, you would have paid -that- toll.

And it will still be possible to avoid. If you’re heading to Long Island, use one of the New Jersey/Manhattan crossings, which charge the same tolls as the Staten Island ones, and again towards New York only, and then one of the free bridges across the East River. If you’re heading to any place other than Long Island - Westchester, New England...- the Verrazano is out of the way anyway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-71 / I-75 Brent Spence Bridge, Cincinnati, Ohio*

Two trucks collided and caught fire on the lower deck of the Brent Spence Bridge across the Ohio River in Cincinnati. The fire was intense and may have significantly compromised the structure.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1326533234025525249

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1326542325879775233


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> *I-71 / I-75 Brent Spence Bridge, Cincinnati, Ohio*
> 
> Two trucks collided and caught fire on the lower deck of the Brent Spence Bridge across the Ohio River in Cincinnati. The fire was intense and may have significantly compromised the structure.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1326533234025525249
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1326542325879775233


Trivia: I didn’t know that was a two-deck bridge (and I’ve crossed it a few times, last in 2011), so I looked up the Wikipedia entry. It was opened the day of John Kennedy’s funeral, and Congressman Brent Spence, who didn’t want it named after him, suggested it be named for Kennedy instead.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*New York State Thruway*

*Governor Cuomo Announces Cashless Tolling to Go Live Overnight on NYS Thruway's Ticketed System Beginning Friday, November 13, More Than a Month Ahead of Schedule *

Governor Andrew M. Cuomo today announced cashless tolling will go live on the New York State Thruway's ticketed system - more than a month ahead of schedule - during the overnight hours of Friday, November 13, into Saturday, November 14. The historic conversion will take place simultaneously at 58 tolling locations across the Thruway's 450-mile ticketed system. The ticketed system is the final section of the Thruway to be converted to cashless tolling, meeting a goal Governor Cuomo set in his 2018 State of the State address. 

The official switch will take place in the overnight hours to limit impact to traffic. At the time cashless tolling goes live, cash will no longer be accepted as a form of payment at toll booths and printed toll tickets will not be handed out. 

The $355 million design-build project to convert to cashless tolling is transforming and modernizing the Thruway system for approximately 267 million motorists that travel the superhighway each year. As part of the project, American-made steel gantries with state-of-the-art technology have been installed to replace cash collection at toll booths. Gantries are located over the Thruway or on exit ramps depending on traffic volumes, safety, and other factors. The tolling structure will not change and drivers will continue to be tolled by distance and exits traveled. 









Governor Cuomo Announces Cashless Tolling to Go Live Overnight on NYS Thruway's Ticketed System Beginning Friday, November 13, More Than a Month Ahead of Schedule


Governor Cuomo announced cashless tolling will go live on the New York State Thruway's ticketed system - more than a month ahead of schedule - during the overnight hours of Friday, November 13, into Saturday, November 14.




www.governor.ny.gov


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-74 Bridge, Davenport, Iowa*

The first new span of the new I-74 Bridge across the Mississippi River in Davenport,Iowa has opened to traffic this morning.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

ChrisZwolle said:


> *New York State Thruway*
> 
> *Governor Cuomo Announces Cashless Tolling to Go Live Overnight on NYS Thruway's Ticketed System Beginning Friday, November 13, More Than a Month Ahead of Schedule *
> 
> Governor Andrew M. Cuomo today announced cashless tolling will go live on the New York State Thruway's ticketed system - more than a month ahead of schedule - during the overnight hours of Friday, November 13, into Saturday, November 14. The historic conversion will take place simultaneously at 58 tolling locations across the Thruway's 450-mile ticketed system. The ticketed system is the final section of the Thruway to be converted to cashless tolling, meeting a goal Governor Cuomo set in his 2018 State of the State address.
> 
> The official switch will take place in the overnight hours to limit impact to traffic. At the time cashless tolling goes live, cash will no longer be accepted as a form of payment at toll booths and printed toll tickets will not be handed out.
> 
> The $355 million design-build project to convert to cashless tolling is transforming and modernizing the Thruway system for approximately 267 million motorists that travel the superhighway each year. As part of the project, American-made steel gantries with state-of-the-art technology have been installed to replace cash collection at toll booths. Gantries are located over the Thruway or on exit ramps depending on traffic volumes, safety, and other factors. The tolling structure will not change and drivers will continue to be tolled by distance and exits traveled.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Governor Cuomo Announces Cashless Tolling to Go Live Overnight on NYS Thruway's Ticketed System Beginning Friday, November 13, More Than a Month Ahead of Schedule
> 
> 
> Governor Cuomo announced cashless tolling will go live on the New York State Thruway's ticketed system - more than a month ahead of schedule - during the overnight hours of Friday, November 13, into Saturday, November 14.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.governor.ny.gov


Anyone know how this works for Canadians? I drive on I-90 about once a year outside of Covid times, and would normally pay cash. I recall seeing something about when they converted the Grand Island bridges to cashless that Ontario Plates got off free of charge, but I also recall seeing that change. Do you get the bill in the mail a little while longer?

I may just have to pick up an EZpass at some point. We'll see.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This is not moving in the right direction...


----------



## sponge_bob

Innsertnamehere said:


> Anyone know how this works for Canadians?


See if you can preregister your plate number on some NYDOT/NJDOT website and pay after transit online once they spot the plate and bill you ???


----------



## Penn's Woods

Innsertnamehere said:


> Anyone know how this works for Canadians? I drive on I-90 about once a year outside of Covid times, and would normally pay cash. I recall seeing something about when they converted the Grand Island bridges to cashless that Ontario Plates got off free of charge, but I also recall seeing that change. Do you get the bill in the mail a little while longer?
> 
> I may just have to pick up an EZpass at some point. We'll see.


Google has a bunch of items like this:









No more free ride: Ontario drivers now must pay to use cashless tolls on Thruway


Before this week, the authority didn’t have an agreement with Ontario to link a license plate to a vehicle’s registered owner and mail a bill to an address in the




buffalonews.com


----------



## Penn's Woods

Elaine Chao has resigned.
What?! It -is- road-related.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I'm researching the road news on a daily basis - that's how I get the updates posted here. But Elaine Chao or the U.S. Department of Transportation almost never pops up in relevant news. Since road construction, planning, maintenance and operations is left to the states, federal involvement is pretty minimal besides setting some standards and redistributing funding. According to the search function of Skyscrapercity, her name was mentioned in only 2 posts, one of them being the one above.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> I'm researching the road news on a daily basis - that's how I get the updates posted here. But Elaine Chao or the U.S. Department of Transportation almost never pops up in relevant news. Since road construction, planning, maintenance and operations is left to the states, federal involvement is pretty minimal besides setting some standards and redistributing funding. According to the search function of Skyscrapercity, her name was mentioned in only 2 posts, one of them being the one above.


She’s farther up this thread. Mentioned by yours truly in connection with the 71/75 bridge. Someone did describe Transportation yesterday as one of the two most popular federal departments, because its “main function is shoveling money out the door.”


----------



## Penn's Woods

Numbering news:

In the District of Columbia, I-695 is becoming part of I-395; the piece of current 395 thus cut off, the piece running north and south under the Mall, will become I-195.










Move over, I-395: Southeast Freeway, 3rd Street Tunnel to be renumbered - WTOP News


The District Department of Transportation is taking big steps in an effort to improve safety on one of D.C.’s busiest and most vexing roads.




wtop.com


----------



## mgk920

Penn's Woods said:


> Numbering news:
> 
> In the District of Columbia, I-695 is becoming part of I-395; the piece of current 395 thus cut off, the piece running north and south under the Mall, will become I-195.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Move over, I-395: Southeast Freeway, 3rd Street Tunnel to be renumbered - WTOP News
> 
> 
> The District Department of Transportation is taking big steps in an effort to improve safety on one of D.C.’s busiest and most vexing roads.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wtop.com


The I-395/I-195 continuation was part of the originally planned corridor for I-95 when it was planned to run through the District, ultimately to feed into the uncompleted ghost ramps at its interchange with I-495 (Capitol Beltway north).

Mike


----------



## CNGL

Penn's Woods said:


> Numbering news:
> 
> In the District of Columbia, I-695 is becoming part of I-395; the piece of current 395 thus cut off, the piece running north and south under the Mall, will become I-195.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Move over, I-395: Southeast Freeway, 3rd Street Tunnel to be renumbered - WTOP News
> 
> 
> The District Department of Transportation is taking big steps in an effort to improve safety on one of D.C.’s busiest and most vexing roads.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wtop.com


This was approved in the last AASHTO meeting. However, seeing how I-195 in Maryland is close by, and considering they have also an (unsigned) I-595 and I-795, I wonder why they haven't gone with I-995 instead. It would be the highest-numbered Interstate, beating I-990 in Buffalo. I'm also surprised an I-995 hasn't been designated anywhere yet.


----------



## Penn's Woods

CNGL said:


> This was approved in the last AASHTO meeting. However, seeing how I-195 in Maryland is close by, and considering they have also an (unsigned) I-595 and I-795, I wonder why they haven't gone with I-995 instead. It would be the highest-numbered Interstate, beating I-990 in Buffalo. I'm also surprised an I-995 hasn't been designated anywhere yet.


395 and 695 also exist in Maryland as well.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I was watching this video of I-10 between San Antonio and Houston.

A couple of things I found interesting;

large amount of pickup trucks (this is Texas after all..)
white seems to be a popular vehicle color
it's unclear how fast the driver was going, but many trucks passed him
the driver kept to the right very well, looks like a European driving style, only in the left lane briefly to pass other vehicles.
the center lane becomes the slowest lane once there are three lanes near Houston. Traffic was passing trucks left and right.
Fairly high exit density despite sparsely populated regions


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A snow storm has closed I-5 in California: between Redding and Yreka in Northern California, but also across 'The Grapevine' north of Los Angeles.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1354300553409355777








Heavy rain headed to Southern California with mudslides possible in burn areas


The L.A. area remains dry for now, but a few showers may arrive late Wednesday and grow heavier Thursday into Friday




www.latimes.com


----------



## Barciur

ChrisZwolle said:


> it's unclear how fast the driver was going, but many trucks passed him


This is definitely my experience if I ever drive here in Pennsylvania with the speed limit (which is often 65 mph or even 55mph). Since trucks do not have a limiter installed, like they do in Europe, they will often speed. Occasionally I have been passed by trucks while I was going 75!



ChrisZwolle said:


> the center lane becomes the slowest lane once there are three lanes near Houston. Traffic was passing trucks left and right.


I would say this is pretty standard for America. Most people go in the center lane when there are three lanes and traffic passes them left and right. At least that is my experience here driving in the Midatlantic area.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Washington-area developments. High-occupancy toll lanes and widenings.









Maryland selects four-lane ‘high occupancy toll’ design for I-495, I-270 - WTOP News


After years of study, the Maryland Department of Transportation has chosen its “preferred alternative” for Gov. Larry Hogan’s plan to expand portions of the Capital Beltway and Interstate 270 in Montgomery County, the agency announced on Wednesday.




wtop.com


----------



## sponge_bob

There is an I-49 gap on the AZ-MO border but a lot of the AZ portion of the gap is now built (some as half profile) and the remainder is under construction right up to the MO border where it stops dead in a forest. I assume MO will finish off the gap some time seeing as all the rest of the I-49 in Missouri is already finished.









Bella Vista · Arkansas


Arkansas




www.google.com


----------



## Penn's Woods

sponge_bob said:


> There is an I-49 gap on the AZ-MO border but a lot of the AZ portion of the gap is now built (some as half profile) and the remainder is under construction right up to the MO border where it stops dead in a forest. I assume MO will finish off the gap some time seeing as all the rest of the I-49 in Missouri is already finished.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bella Vista · Arkansas
> 
> 
> Arkansas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


AR.
AZ is Arizona.


----------



## Jschmuck

Penn's Woods said:


> AR.
> AZ is Arizona.


What about Arzkanzaz?! 
Lol that looks Russian...Maybe Arzkanzaz is in Russia...


----------



## Jschmuck

sponge_bob said:


> There is an I-49 gap on the AZ-MO border but a lot of the AZ portion of the gap is now built (some as half profile) and the remainder is under construction right up to the MO border where it stops dead in a forest. I assume MO will finish off the gap some time seeing as all the rest of the I-49 in Missouri is already finished.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bella Vista · Arkansas
> 
> 
> Arkansas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


Correct, Missouri side supposed to be finished this year.

I-49 Missouri/Arkansas Connector | Missouri Department of Transportation (modot.org)


----------



## sponge_bob

Jschmuck said:


> Correct, Missouri side supposed to be finished this year.


Found it on sentinel, google earth only shows the AR bit under construction and ending bang on the state border.

AR wants to finish another missing link of Interstate, an I-57 from Little Rock to Chicago and to that end have already built a lot of it NE (towards MO again) as a state route or as US-67 

They have unveiled their intent to make this a full Interstate at some future point by erecting these along that route. 










A lot of these missing link interstates only ever get traction when some local politician is head of an important congressional committee for a few years. 

The MO portion is in planning for quite a while too. 





__





U.S. 67 (Future I-57) in Butler County | Missouri Department of Transportation







www.modot.org


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A massive pile-up has occured on I-35W north of Forth Worth, Texas. At least 5 people were killed.









Photo: Dallasnews


----------



## keokiracer

I didnt know semi-trucks are allowed on those toll lanes, it was my understanding they are often not allowed?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The I-4 Ultimate project in Orlando, Florida is nearing completion. The project included a complete rebuild of I-4 through Orlando and adding 4 express lanes in the process, as well as reconstructing numerous interchanges. 

Project website: I-4 Ultimate Improvement Project


----------



## sponge_bob

Nearing Completion?? ..they are trying to fully fund "I4 Beyond The Ultimate" for quite a while, another 40 miles of I4 upgrades.



https://i4beyond.com/




Estimated cost ~$4.5bn or over $100m a mile.  









$1B in federal funding needed for I-4 Beyond Ultimate projects


Some much-needed transportation improvements could be on hold if Florida can’t get an additional $1 billion to fund the I-4 Beyond the Ultimate project.




www.clickorlando.com


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I-69 in Houston after a snowfall.


----------



## Coccodrillo

Sign with distance in km on I-19: Google Maps


----------



## ChrisZwolle

All of I-19 is metric:


I-19 and Ajo Way by Arizona Department of Transportation, on Flickr


I 19 Distance Sign by Jimmy Emerson, DVM, on Flickr


----------



## TM_Germany

Are they keeping it metric or are they slowly replacing them with imperial?


----------



## Luki_SL

^^Are mileposts become kilometer posts on I-19?


----------



## kostas97

If i am not mistaken, the I-19 was constructed during the-slow and voluntary-metrication effort of the US, while other roads also had metric signs in places along with their imperial counterparts. However, the whole plan never came to fruition, unfortunately, which is why this is one of the very few interstates to have metric signs. It would have been great if America made another try towards the metric system, even though it seems completely unlikely in the foreseeable future.


----------



## Barciur

Luki_SL said:


> ^^Are mileposts become kilometer posts on I-19?


Yes, much like they are in Puerto Rico, they are kilometer posts.



TM_Germany said:


> Are they keeping it metric or are they slowly replacing them with imperial?


There was a plan to move it over to US units, but it was stalled due to local opposition of businesses along the route. So, it has remained mostly metric. Some of the newer interchanges etc. were marked in US units instead.

They have still used typical American distances on some of them, for example a Rest Area is marked at 800 meters to Rest Area, which is 1/2 mile. I don't think all of them are like that, though, as there are "Rest area 2km" and 500m till exit etc.


----------



## Stuu

kostas97 said:


> It would have been great if America made another try towards the metric system, even though it seems completely unlikely in the foreseeable future.


Why? What real benefit is there? Metric units are much more sensible for any other use, but speed and distances are mostly in whole numbers so there's no onvious benefit as far as I can see


----------



## kostas97

Stuu said:


> Why? What real benefit is there? Metric units are much more sensible for any other use, but speed and distances are mostly in whole numbers so there's no onvious benefit as far as I can see


Indeed the US have remained a standalone of the imperial system, but further metrication would instead be a better option, just to continue and (sometime in the far future) finish what started 40 years ago. I mean, many people across the country are already using the metric system in their everyday life, but not even close to the imperial system's extent. Products are already standardized according to metric units, so why not make another step ahead? But it is most probably the cost of all this conversion, that impedes its final implementation, accompanied by the general public's apathy towards it.


----------



## Stuu

kostas97 said:


> Indeed the US have remained a standalone of the imperial system, but further metrication would instead be a better option, just to continue and (sometime in the far future) finish what started 40 years ago. I mean, many people across the country are already using the metric system in their everyday life, but not even close to the imperial system's extent. Products are already standardized according to metric units, so why not make another step ahead?


As I said, in pretty much every other area metric units make more sense and are much easier to work with. But I don't see any obvious advantage to knowing whether it is 60 more miles or 100 more km to somewhere. When dealing with whole numbers, which speed and distance generally are, there is no clear reason to change


----------



## Barciur

Also, the US badly needs investments in its infrastructure; the highways in many places are totally underfunded, as are bridges and tunnels, and the railroad is falling apart as well. I can't see the justification for the cost of replacing all of the signage etc at this point.


----------



## kostas97

Speaking of distances and speed limits, aren't the UK and the US the only non-metric countries in this category?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-495, I-270 Maryland*

*MDOT AND MDTA SELECT DEVELOPER FOR THE AMERICAN LEGION BRIDGE I-270 TO I-70 RELIEF PLAN*

The Maryland Department of Transportation (MDOT), MDOT State Highway Administration (MDOT SHA), and the Maryland Transportation Authority (MDTA) today announced the selection of Accelerate Maryland Partners, LLC, to become the developer responsible for overseeing predevelopment work on the American Legion Bridge I-270 to I-70 Relief Plan.

MDOT's recommended preferred alternative for the American Legion Bridge I-270 to I-70 Relief Plan includes two high-occupancy toll (HOT) lanes across the American Legion Bridge to I-270, and north on I-270 to I-370. 

Full press release: MDOT and MDTA Select Developer for the American Legion Bridge I-270 to I-70 Relief Plan - MDOT SHA

Also a news report: https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...f922ca-6ae9-11eb-9ead-673168d5b874_story.html


----------



## geogregor

kostas97 said:


> Speaking of distances and speed limits, aren't the UK and the US the only non-metric countries in this category?


Probably. But it doesn't really mater. And I say it as a person who grew up in metric country but living in the UK. 

I don't see a point in such changes. Especially in countries where it would face fierce opposition, as it would from the right side of political scene in the US and in the UK. people would see it as attack on their "past" and "sovereignty". I really think we have more important issues to spend political capital on


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A Johnston County Section of U.S. 70 Will Be Upgraded *
_
Construction will start this spring on upgrading a nearly 5-mile swath of U.S. 70 in Johnston County to interstate standards, which will improve safety and reduce traveling delays.
The N.C. Department of Transportation awarded a $58.8 million contract last week to improve the four-lane route between U.S. 70 Business and the Neuse River. The improvements will include:_

_Construct interchanges at Swift Creek Road and at Wilson's Mills Road; _
_Close road-level intersections and median openings; and_
_Add service roads to provide new access to businesses and properties along U.S. 70._
_Traffic signals now operate U.S. 70 at Swift Creek Road and at Wilson's Mills Road, causing delays, especially during peak travel times. The interchanges will include bridges and ramps at these two locations, vastly improving travel time and reducing the risk of crashes. 
NCDOT has a long-term plan to convert U.S. 70 between Raleigh and Morehead City into Interstate 42, which requires these kind of improvements._






__





A Johnston County Section of U.S. 70 Will Be Upgraded







www.ncdot.gov





Location: OpenStreetMap


----------



## sponge_bob

Joe Biden announced a $2TR ($2000bn) rebuilding plan for infrastructure but we should not forget that some junctions and urban constrained sections on the Interstate network can swallow up a billion each. The Circle Interchange (I-90 - I-290) in Chicago is one such and the latest estimated price is $800m (€0.8bn) . The rebuild started in 2013 and was to cost only half a billion back then.





__





Byrne interchange construction will continue through 2022







gazettechicago.com







> According to Maria Castaneda, IDOT communications manager, the agency originally estimated Jane Byrne construction at $535.5 million and expected the project to conclude in 2018. It has updated financial plans each year, with the numbers increasing for reasons “expected with a project of this size,” Castaneda said.












Gallery here





__





Jane Byrne Interchange - Formerly known as Circle Interchange






www.janebyrneinterchange.org


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I've read a commentary that the Highway Trust Fund - often said to be bankrupt - could be solvent again if it returns to its user pays / user benefits principle. Congress has increasingly diverted money from the Highway Trust Fund to other destinations. 

Evidently the Highway Trust Fund has seen a budget deficit. They spent $ 58 billion last year. However the highway user taxes revenue is $ 42 billion, which means there is a $ 16 billion shortfall. But highway spending from the trust fund is $ 45 billion, which means only a minor gas tax increase would be necessary to return the Highway Trust Fund to solvency if Congress can find another funding source for non-highway expenditures. A 2 cent gas tax increase could be sufficient.


----------



## sponge_bob

ChrisZwolle said:


> A 2 cent gas tax increase could be sufficient.


The problem with Joes plan is that he wants vehicles to go electric meaning there will be no gas to tax federally. So any long term plans financed by the Federal Gas Tax can be discounted, it is only good for short term measures that can be completed within 10 years at most....unless politicians are prepared to consider European levels of gas taxes which they are not in the US.

State gas taxes stopped being really useful cash cows in the 1980s when the gas guzzlers were replaced by more thrifty vehicles.


----------



## LtBk

How Philadelphia would look in 1985 if it's transportation plan from 1960's went through


----------



## xzmattzx

kostas97 said:


> Speaking of distances and speed limits, aren't the UK and the US the only non-metric countries in this category?


Does the UK really use imperial measurements on roadways?

I'm not sure if non-metric means anything or everything, but in the Bahamas, speed limits are posted in mph.


----------



## Jschmuck

> Does the UK really use imperial measurements on roadways?
> 
> I'm not sure if non-metric means anything or everything, but in the Bahamas, speed limits are posted in mph.


Indeed it is true, I guess UK uses imperial on some(?) of their roadways. I checked via Google Maps Street View and my mind was blown after seeing (and reading) about this fact:

M4 - Google Maps









You can see the electronic message board posting in miles, and the other sign with "50" I believe is in reference to 50MPH and not 50KPH because 50KPH would be only 30MPH.


----------



## rakcancer

USA is a different planet with their length, temperature or weight systems. None of them makes much sense for anyone from outside especially in modern times. It also makes things complicated for Americans too. I know that from my experience being involved in construction in transportation field in USA. Converting imperial feet to survey feet and sometimes to meters back and forward is real pain it the a.... and is prone to constant errors. Beside, I was always wondering why yards which are close to meters are not commonly used. You can find hundreds and thousands of feet on signs and in car navigation, I never seen or heard of yards which would make more sense to me as I grew up in Europe.


----------



## Stuu

Jschmuck said:


> Indeed it is true, I guess UK uses imperial on some(?) of their roadways. I checked via Google Maps Street View and my mind was blown after seeing (and reading) about this fact:
> 
> M4 - Google Maps
> 
> View attachment 1306538
> 
> You can see the electronic message board posting in miles, and the other sign with "50" I believe is in reference to 50MPH and not 50KPH because 50KPH would be only 30MPH.


All UK road distances and speeds are in miles. Km are never used, although signs for pedestrians in towns will often be in metres. 

The UK is odd in that for anything technical like manufacturing or science or engineering, metric is used and has been for decades. Everything is sold in metric units as well. But there is a reluctance to abandon imperial measures completely, people's height and weight is always referred to in imperial measures (except by doctors who have the sense to use metric). 

There was a push at one time in the early 1970s to change everything to metric including road signs, but it fizzled out. Roads are however designed and built in metric units, but the signs are imperial and will almost certainly be for a very long time. There's no real benefit in knowing somewhere is 100km away rather than 60 miles anyway, but for virtually everything else metric is of course superior.

One effect of this is that gas is sold in litres, but car ads and dash computers only ever refer to miles per gallon...


----------



## g.spinoza

Stuu said:


> people's height and weight is always referred to in imperial measures


Yes, stone as a unit of measurement is particularly amusing for non-UK people.


----------



## geogregor

g.spinoza said:


> Yes, stone as a unit of measurement is particularly amusing for non-UK people.


I live in the UK for more than 16 years and still don't know what is the actual weight of the "stone". Somehow I managed to survive without knowing that nonsense.  

As for roads, I have no slightest issue with using miles and yards (used here much more often than in the US), they are easy to convert mentally.


----------



## Stuu

geogregor said:


> I live in the UK for more than 16 years and still don't know what is the actual weight of the "stone". Somehow I managed to survive without knowing that nonsense.


It's an eighth of a hundredweight, obviously. Bloody foreigners


----------



## g.spinoza

Stuu said:


> It's an eighth of a hundredweight, obviously. Bloody foreigners


It should be called a twelveandahalfweight, then.


----------



## Stuu

g.spinoza said:


> It should be called a twelveandahalfweight, then.


That is far too logical. Can't do that


----------



## rohjoe

Australia went through this back in 1974...


----------



## kostas97

At least the British are using yards in the motorway exit signs (300, 200, 100 yards), which is way more understandable and convenient because of their similarity to the same metric distances. But still, the whole hustle remains the same for a "metric" driver.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 64, West Virginia*

*Gov. Justice holds groundbreaking ceremony for I-64 Nitro/St. Albans Bridge construction; a Roads To Prosperity project*
_
From a construction zone overlooking the I-64 Nitro/St. Albans Bridge at the point where it crosses over the Kanawha River, Gov. Jim Justice joined United States Senator Shelley Moore Capito and West Virginia Department of Transportation officials Wednesday afternoon for a ceremony to celebrate the start of work on a major project in the area to enhance the existing bridge and add a second bridge to better serve motorists traveling the high-traffic section of interstate.

The $224.4 million project is part of Gov. Justice’s Roads To Prosperity program. 

The project, which is being completed by the joint venture of Brayman Construction and Trumbull Construction, calls for 3.8 miles of I-64 to be widened from four lanes to six lanes, including the section between the Nitro and St. Albans interchanges, which will be further widened to eight lanes.

Work will consist of building an entirely new bridge over the Kanawha River, north of the existing bridge. Traffic will be shifted to the new bridge. Then, additional work will be performed to rehabilitate and modernize the existing I-64 Nitro/St. Albans Bridge – also known as the Donald M. Legg Memorial Bridge. 

The project is currently projected to be finished by October 2024. _

Full press release: Gov. Justice holds groundbreaking ceremony for I-64 Nitro/St. Albans Bridge construction; a Roads To Prosperity project


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 15, California*

A set of tolled express lanes open to traffic tomorrow on I-15 through Corona, from Cajalco Road to SR-60 in Jurupa Valley (about 15 miles). These express lanes are new capacity and not a rededication of former HOV lanes. The project is called Riverside Express (named after Riverside County).









New 15 Freeway toll lanes to open Saturday morning


The $472 million project has been under construction for three years.




www.pe.com


----------



## geogregor

Stuu said:


> All UK road distances and speeds are in miles. Km are never used, although signs for pedestrians in towns will often be in metres.
> 
> The UK is odd in that for anything technical like manufacturing or science or engineering, metric is used and has been for decades. Everything is sold in metric units as well. But there is a reluctance to abandon imperial measures completely, people's height and weight is always referred to in imperial measures (except by doctors who have the sense to use metric).
> 
> There was a push at one time in the early 1970s to change everything to metric including road signs, but it fizzled out. Roads are however designed and built in metric units, but the signs are imperial and will almost certainly be for a very long time. There's no real benefit in knowing somewhere is 100km away rather than 60 miles anyway, but for virtually everything else metric is of course superior.
> 
> One effect of this is that gas is sold in litres, but car ads and dash computers only ever refer to miles per gallon...


UK is full of contradictions. Distances are in miles and yards but height and weight limits are either metric or in bot units.

Here sign from where I live:


20210407_135515 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## Stuu

geogregor said:


> UK is full of contradictions. Distances are in miles and yards but height and weight limits are either metric or in bot units.


The law is, apparently, that heights have to show both, but older signs will be imperial only. Not sure about weights, but there is only about 1.5% difference anyway, and I would hope bridges would have more of a safety margin than that


----------



## mgk920

I remember seeing articles from a couple of years ago where numerous police agencies in the UK were pleading with the roads ministry to post dimensional restrictions in meters due to lorry drivers from the continent having no idea what 'yards' were and hitting low bridges as a result.

Mike


----------



## devo

Isn't the imperial system technically based on the metric system and just adapted to the nearest metric unit?
Distance markers along motorways in the UK are in kilometers. Those blue signs with (ex.) M4 – A – 32.5 on three separate lines: Google Maps


----------



## 54°26′S 3°24′E

mgk920 said:


> I remember seeing articles from a couple of years ago where numerous police agencies in the UK were pleading with the roads ministry to post dimensional restrictions in meters due to lorry drivers from the continent having no idea what 'yards' were and hitting low bridges as a result.
> 
> Mike


Lorry drivers have no problem hitting into low bridges even if the signs are metric ;-)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The reconstructed I-44 / I-235 interchange in Oklahoma City is nearing completion. This used to be a simple cloverleaf


















OKC traffic lanes shift as I-235 rebuilding nears fall completion


Lane shifts resume this weekend in OKC, followed by replacement of the I-235 bridge over I-44. A widened Broadway/I-235 is set to open this fall.



oklahoman.com


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 5, Los Angeles County*

The widening of I-5 in southeastern Los Angeles County is nearing completion. This is a 7 mile widening of I-5 from six to ten lanes between the Orange County line and I-605. This freeway was originally built in the early 1950s on a six lane profile. Most other major freeways in the region were built with eight lanes where an additional HOV lane was later added on the left shoulder, so large-scale physical widening projects like this were not as common in Los Angeles. This project is ongoing for 10 years now. A next stage would be the modernization and widening of I-5 to the 710 interchange.

















5 Freeway Florence Avenue bridge project delayed but completion still imminent


The Florence Avenue bridge is part of the $1.8 billion, 6.7-mile 5 Freeway widening project between the Orange County border and the 605 Freeway that began in 2011.




www.whittierdailynews.com


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 35, Austin, Texas*

Two flyover ramps opened to traffic yesterday in Austin, Texas, connecting southbound I-35 to US 183 north and south. At the same time, the I-35 north to US 183 north flyover closes for four months.

According to Open Street Map, the number of direct connector ramps will increase from 2 to 5. Some movements still have to use the frontage road signalized intersections.

Location: OpenStreetMap


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1385616984675655687

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1385272686511747086


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Data from the Federal Highway Administration shows that Interstate Highway travel has reached pre-pandemic levels for the first time in April, with a VMT growth 1% compared to the same week in 2019. Truck travel is up 7%, car travel at -1%.

(VMT = vehicle miles traveled)


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Data from the Federal Highway Administration shows that Interstate Highway travel has reached pre-pandemic levels for the first time in April, with a VMT growth 1% compared to the same week in 2019. Truck travel is up 7%, car travel at -1%.
> 
> (VMT = vehicle miles traveled)


Nothing surprising, all those deliveries don't magically materialize on the doorsteps of people staying in their homes


----------



## geogregor




----------



## ChrisZwolle

_*SCDOT moves forward with Carolina Crossroads Phase 1*
_
*Secretary of Transportation Christy A. Hall signed the contract for the Carolina Crossroads Phase I project today, May 12, 2021, in Columbia. The signing formalizes the partnership between SCDOT and the Archer-United joint venture (Archer Western and United Infrastructure) for the Phase I project worth $210 million.*
_
The entire $1.7 billion Carolina Crossroads project is broken down into five phases. The plan is to provide a safer, more modern interchange design for the state's top interstate "pinch point," commonly known as "Malfunction Junction" in the Midlands of South Carolina. More than 134,000 vehicles including commuters, freight carriers, and other travelers pass through this area on a daily basis. 

Phase I of the Carolina Crossroads project will center on the reconfiguration of the Colonial Life Boulevard interchange on I-126. Some improvements will be made to improve traffic flow along I-26 heading in the direction of US 378. This project will be undertaken by the joint venture team using the innovative "designed-build" method. This strategy will allow the final design work and construction to be completed by a proven team of industry experts on an expedited schedule.

The contract signing marks the beginning of work to finalize the design and other pre-construction activities for the project. The public should expect to see major construction activity beginning in spring 2022 with all the work associated with the Phase 1 project being completed by the end of 2024.

The next phases of the overall Carolina Crossroads project are in the project development pipeline, with Phase 2 expected to advance to contract later this summer. The remaining phases will advance over the next several years in succession. All five phases of Carolina Crossroads are anticipated to be fully complete and open to traffic by the end of 2029._

Full press release: SCDOT moves forward with Carolina Crossroads Phase 1




ChrisZwolle said:


> *I-20 / I-26, Columbia, South Carolina*
> 
> News about the 'Malfunction Junction', or Carolina Crossroads Interchange as SCDOT calls it. It's a $ 1.6 billion project.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.thestate.com/news/traffic/article245914475.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interstate 40, Hernando de Soto Bridge, Memphis, Tennessee*

*I-40 Hernando DeSoto Bridge Shut Down for Repairs*
_
*Tennessee Department of Transportation (TDOT) contract crews will begin emergency repairs on the I-40 Hernando DeSoto Bridge over the Mississippi River after a routine inspection uncovered a crack in the bottom side of the bridge truss. For the motoring public's safety, the bridge will be entirely shut down while crews investigate the crack's extent further and then repair the problem, which could take some time. *

TDOT shares responsibility for the bridge with the Arkansas Department of Transportation (ArDOT). An ArDOT contractor discovered the problem during a routine inspection and immediately shut down the bridge. It is unclear, at this time, how long the repairs will take. Detours are in place in Tennessee and Arkansas. Traffic is being rerouted in both directions to I-55 as an alternate route across the river. River traffic is also shut down until further notice._






I-40 Hernando DeSoto Bridge Shut Down for Repairs


MEMPHIS – Tennessee Department of Transportation (TDOT) contract crews will begin emergency repairs on the I-40 Hernando DeSoto Bridge over the Mississippi River after a routine inspection uncovered a crack in the bottom side of the bridge truss. For the motoring public's safety, the bridge will...




www.tn.gov





A photo shows that this is not just a crack, but a beam has completely broken in two.










I-40 is one of two bridges across the Mississippi River in Memphis, the other being I-55. The bridge was completed in 1973 and has undergone an extensive seismic retrofit between 2000 and 2015, costing $ 265 million. 

It's not as well-known as California or the Pacific Northwest, but this area has seen very powerful earthquakes in the early 19th century: New Madrid Seismic Zone - Wikipedia


----------



## Haljackey

I thought I knew that bridge from somewhere. There's a giant Bass Pro Shop pyramid nearby.









Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.com


----------



## Jschmuck

Its crazy, when I first heard about a bridge closing in Memphis I automatically assumed it was the I-55 bridge as that one is older, but nope, its the I-40 bridge. The one better suited to handle more traffic.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It turns out that this crack has been visible on footage dating back to May 2019 and was not reported during bridge inspections in 2019 and 2020.

The Arkansas DOT is responsible for the bridge inspections and has fired the inspector: ARDOT Confirms Failure in Inspection Process and Vows to Increase Redundancies to Avoid Repeat Event - Arkansas Department of Transportation


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The South Carolina Department of Transportation has replaced the 4 lane bridge deck of I-77 southbound over the Catawba River (just south of Charlotte) in just 2 weeks time. The bridge closed to traffic on 6 May at 9 p.m. and has now reopened.


----------



## xzmattzx

Meanwhile DelDOT is saying it will take 2-3 years to resurface I-95 through Wilmington.


----------



## g.spinoza

It seems that New York state wants to tear down the elevated stretch of I-81 that runs through Syracuse and replace with an at-grade, street-level boulevard, partly to right the wrong of having mostly low-income, black neighbourhoods torn down at the time of its construction.









Divided highway


Can this U.S. city heal racial wounds by busting up its freeway?




graphics.reuters.com


----------



## verreme

g.spinoza said:


> It seems that New York state wants to tear down the elevated stretch of I-81 that runs through Syracuse and replace with an at-grade, street-level boulevard, partly to right the wrong of having mostly low-income, black neighbourhoods torn down at the time of its construction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Divided highway
> 
> 
> Can this U.S. city heal racial wounds by busting up its freeway?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> graphics.reuters.com


That looks like an awful excuse to develop real estate and boast speculation, which will end up displacing low-income, black residents.


----------



## mgk920

verreme said:


> That looks like an awful excuse to develop real estate and boast speculation, which will end up displacing low-income, black residents.


And muck up local traffic patterns....

That would be like the Germans ordering some of their most important autobahn routes to be abandoned simply because of when they were first built and by whom.

Mike


----------



## rakcancer

Knowing that this trend is pushed by current government with heavy money, expect more cases like this in near future... 👎


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Keep in mind that the Biden infrastructure proposal doesn't actually include that much money for roads and bridges. In fact most of the funding is not earmarked for transportation at all. According to CNN only 6% ($ 115 billion) is earmarked for roads and bridges over an 8 year period. That means $ 14 billion per year. Which is not much money at all for a country with a population of 330 million (0.05% of GDP). Especially because this type of short-term federal funding tends to replace already planned state expenditures, so it's not as much of a net increase in spending. 

While the headlines makes it seems that the government is showering the roads with unprecedented amounts of money, in the end it may turn out to be not much different from the existing situation.


----------



## g.spinoza

ChrisZwolle said:


> Keep in mind that the Biden infrastructure proposal doesn't actually include that much money for roads and bridges. In fact most of the funding is not earmarked for transportation at all. According to CNN only 6% ($ 115 billion) is earmarked for roads and bridges over an 8 year period. That means $ 14 billion per year. Which is not much money at all for a country with a population of 330 million (0.05% of GDP). Especially because this type of short-term federal funding tends to replace already planned state expenditures, so it's not as much of a net increase in spending.
> 
> While the headlines makes it seems that the government is showering the roads with unprecedented amounts of money, in the end it may turn out to be not much different from the existing situation.


Well, but I guess states will save on money that will be expended in the future, when the federal funding has run out.


----------



## rakcancer

Actually that I-81 demolition who knows maybe wouldn't be qualified as regular hard infrastructure project since Biden's package includes broadly interpreted investments benefiting communities of color people.


----------



## Stuu

mgk920 said:


> And muck up local traffic patterns....
> 
> That would be like the Germans ordering some of their most important autobahn routes to be abandoned simply because of when they were first built and by whom.
> 
> Mike


I will add the caveat that I have never been north of 81st St in Manhattan, but looking at a map, will it really? Syracuse has a decent road network, although is missing a bypass on the southwest side, there are high quality roads avoiding that section. The section to be removed looks very low quality as an interstate too, the alternatives look better, albeit longer


----------



## g.spinoza

A follow-up on this - not strictly related to Interstates - on the New York Times









Can Removing Highways Fix America’s Cities? (Published 2021)


Highways radically reshaped cities, destroying dense downtown neighborhoods. Now, some cities are starting to take them down.



www.nytimes.com


----------



## rakcancer

g.spinoza said:


> A follow-up on this - not strictly related to Interstates - on the New York Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can Removing Highways Fix America’s Cities? (Published 2021)
> 
> 
> Highways radically reshaped cities, destroying dense downtown neighborhoods. Now, some cities are starting to take them down.
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com


Generally good direction for most US cities maybe beside whole ideology behind it in that article. 
I don't know how is in other cities but showed BQE (Brooklyn - Queens Expressway) in New York is not planned to be removed. As a matter of fact its built in 40s triple cantilever part of highway in Brooklyn Heights is going to be renovated or less likely replaced by tunnel. One of the options though is to make it narrower. However I am not sure if that makes sense. It is one of the most packed with cars place in New York.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A diverging diamond interchange (DDI) has been completed on Exit 4 of I-83 in Shrewsbury, Pennsylvania. It is the third DDI in the state.
























York Dispatch







yorkdispatch.com


----------



## binhai

Nice. I-83 in Pennsylvania is a classic autobahn design.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

sponge_bob said:


> It remains a missing link until Missouri open their final segment of I-49 to around 5 miles north of the state line, due in 2022 or 2023. so far they only really bypassed "Gobblers Knob"


Looking at the Missouri DOT website, it does appear that all of I-49 will open to traffic today, not just the Arkansas side. 

The Missouri section was then completed in a very short time: awarded in Spring 2020 and opening about 1.5 years later on September 30, 2021 (today).






I-49 Missouri/Arkansas Connector - COMPLETED | Missouri Department of Transportation







www.modot.org


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A photo of the I-49 ribbon cutting at the Missouri - Arkansas state line:


Bella Vista Bypass ribbon cutting by Arkansas Highways, on Flickr


----------



## brewerfan386

I-69 construction photos from ITB on the AARoads Forum: _

"A few more. Again, photos were taken Sunday, September 26, 2021, unless otherwise noted.









Looking north from the Teeters Road overpass work zone just north of Martinsville, Indiana.









The east abutment and middle bent of the Teeters Road overpass; looking east. Construction of this bridge is scheduled to complete next year.









State Road 252/Hospital Road work zone in Martinsville; looking north. On the right is the southbound mainline bridge over SR 252. The State Road 44 overpass is in the background.









The beginnings of the western traffic roundabout at the future I-69/SR 252-Hospital interchange; looking northeast. The roundabout's curb will be built without forms, using only stakes and a stringline. How that's done can be seen in this video.









Another perspective of the western traffic circle at the future SR 252 interchange; looking northwest. The gap in the row of stakes is where the future southbound exit ramp will join the roundabout.









Looking north from near the mainline bridges over SR 252/Hospital Drive. Blocks of geoform still remain on site if needed.









The southern abutment of the mainline bridges over SR 252/Hospital Dr.; looking south. Note the blocks of geoform, used instead of typical gravel backfill to form the abutment.









Unused geoform blocks on site at the SR 252 work zone; looking northeast. Really tough, strong material. Rather light in weight, a little like styrofoam, but somewhat heavier and much more dense. I got the feeling one could take a sledgehammer, give it a few whacks, but only scuff it up a bit. It can be cut, however, with sections both small and large to be used as needed. The road in the background is SR 252, heading east toward Morgantown and beyond.









Another view of the SR 252/Hospital Dr. work zone; looking east. Most of that mound of soil-like material will be removed as construction moves forward. It's mostly sand and has been dumped there to compress the material underneath and to enhance settlement. At some point, the engineers will come in bringing their little gadgets, testing whether the compressed material has met the specs for density, etc. The truck pictured was not involved with the project; he had pulled over to use the portable toilet.









Another perspective looking north from the south abutment of the northbound mainline bridge over SR252/Hospital Drive.









Tubing for underground utilities near the Ohio Street/Artesian Ave. work zone; looking northeast. That's a lot of tubes going into the ground. To hazard a guess, these tubes will probably carry the electrical conduits for lighting fixtures, both standalone and on signs.









Mid-range view looking north from near the Teeters Road overpass work zone.

Lots is happening with construction both in Martinsville and further north. I'll try to shoot another set of pictures as we get into October."_

Current maps of the construction area: Maps - I-69 Finish Line


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## ChrisZwolle

*Governor Parson and MoDOT Launch Rocheport Bridge Construction *
_
Today, Governor Mike Parson and Missouri Department of Transportation officials were joined by federal, state, and local leaders to commence construction of the new Interstate 70 Missouri River bridges near Rocheport. 

The current bridge was built in 1960 and is rated as being in poor condition, which may have resulted in weight restrictions in the coming years. The 60-year-old bridge is safe and will continue to be maintained by MoDOT while construction of the new bridge is underway. The bridge carries 12.5 million vehicles per year, including 3.6 million trucks.

The new Missouri River bridge will cost approximately $240 million and will provide a safe and reliable bridge for interstate travelers for the next 100 years. This project was funded in part by an $81.2 million Infrastructure For Rebuilding America Grant, the largest competitive grant ever received by MoDOT. 

The first bridge will be built north of the current bridge and is scheduled to be completed by the end of 2023. Traffic will then be transitioned to the new bridge, the current bridge will be demolished, and construction is scheduled to be completed on the eastbound bridge by the end of 2024. _

Press release: Governor Parson and MoDOT Launch Rocheport Bridge Construction | Governor Michael L. Parson

Location: https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=38.9589&mlon=-92.5457#map=13/38.9589/-92.5457


The Rocheport Bridge spans the Missouri River, approximately halfway from Kansas City to St. Louis. The bridge will be replaced by two separate spans with three lanes each.

The current bridge is narrow and substandard (no shoulders).


D6666_BB-342 by MoDOT Photos, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*Governor Laura Kelly Signs Agreement to Replace Topeka’s Polk-Quincy Viaduct*
_
Governor Laura Kelly today joined Kansas Department of Transportation Secretary Julie Lorenz, Topeka Mayor Michelle De La Isla, and other community partners to sign a formal funding partnership agreement for the long-awaited Polk-Quincy Viaduct project in Topeka.

The project will replace Topeka’s Polk-Quincy Viaduct and expand I-70 to six lanes from MacVicar Avenue to Topeka Boulevard. Work will remove a sharp curve on the viaduct while also making improvements for motorists traveling through or entering the downtown area.

The agreement signed Wednesday is a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) to mark the formal funding partnership between KDOT and the City of Topeka. The agreement commits the partners to cooperatively work towards implementation of the I-70 Polk-Quincy Viaduct Project._

Full press release: Governor Laura Kelly Signs Agreement to Replace Topeka’s Polk-Quincy Viaduct - Governor of the State of Kansas

Project website: https://www.polkquincy.org/

The Polk-Quincy Viaduct is a four lane viaduct of I-70 through Topeka, Kansas. The viaduct was built in the late 1950s and is in poor condition. It is an outdated piece of infrastructure, I-70 has no shoulders through there and there is a tight curve.

The cost estimate is $ 234 million. Construction will likely begin in 2024.


----------



## Vilatic




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## zaphod

ChrisZwolle said:


> *Governor Laura Kelly Signs Agreement to Replace Topeka’s Polk-Quincy Viaduct*
> ......
> ......


I'm sure this will be a great improvement, though its also kind of sad to see that interesting viaduct that almost touches those old buildings go away. I'm guessing its replacement will require the demolition of those structures, which appear to be fairly historic. If Topeka was a bigger more exciting city I'm sure those would have been converted into loft apartments and micro breweries, restaurants, etc and not just left to rot.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Gov. Pritzker Announces Six-Year Plan for $1.2 Billion I-80 Corridor Improvement Project*

_Governor JB Pritzker and the Illinois Department of Transportation were joined today by local officials and community leaders to announce a six-year plan to rebuild Interstate 80 in Will County. Made possible by the Governor's historic, bipartisan Rebuild Illinois capital program, the $1.2 billion project will replace more than 50-year-old infrastructure on a condensed timeframe.

As one of the country's three coast-to-coast interstates, I-80 through Joliet and Will County carries approximately 80,000 vehicles a day, about 25% of which are trucks. Due to the outdated design and capacity restraints, congestion as well as frequent merging and weaving are common. To shorten the construction timeline, several project components and land acquisition efforts will be done concurrently to deliver a cornerstone project of Rebuild Illinois more quickly, with less impact to the public. 

When it wraps up in 2027, the overall I-80 project will have redesigned and rebuilt 16 miles from Ridge Road, in Minooka, to U.S. 30, in Joliet and New Lenox, while adding or extending auxiliary lanes to improve safety and reduce congestion. Interchanges will have been rebuilt or improved at Interstate 55, Illinois 7, Center Street, Chicago Street, Richards Street and Briggs Street, with a new flyover ramp linking southbound I-55 to westbound I-80 to improve traffic flow and safety. More than 30 bridges will have been rehabilitated or replaced. _

Full press release: https://www.illinois.gov/news/press-release.24018.html

The project limits:









The most significant structure on this stretch of I-80 in Joliet is the set of bridges across the Des Plaines River, which will be replaced.


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## sponge_bob

With all the gen 1 interstate bridges that need replacing after 50-60 years I wonder if any funds will be left at all to fill in obvious gaps on the interstate network.


----------



## brewerfan386

Courtesy of ITB over on the AARoads Forum:

_"A few more pictures. Photos were taken Sunday, October 17, 2021, unless otherwise noted.









Looking north from near the mainline bridges over Ohio Street in Martinsville, Indiana. On the right is the future entrance ramp from Ohio Street to I-69 northbound. In the mid-background is the Grand Valley Blvd. overpass. Further back is the State Road 44 overpass.









Mainline bridges over State Road 39/Morton Ave. at the future I-69/SR 39 interchange in Martinsville; looking north.









Looking north from near the Grand Valley Blvd. overpass (pictured). The paving crew, which had been hard at work the day prior, Saturday, Oct. 16th, decided to end the day at this spot.









Long range view looking north from near the mainline bridges over Ohio Street in Martinsville.









Closer look. The sidewalls of the mainline bridges over Sartor Ditch are partially visible mid-frame.









Mainline bridges over Ohio Street in Martinsville; looking north. Deck pours took place last week.









Underneath the mainline bridges at the future State Road 39 interchange; looking northwest. It looks like two more layers of asphalt remain to be put down. Traffic on Morton Ave./SR 39 is in the background.









Another view looking north from near the mainline bridges over Ohio Street."_

Current maps of the construction area: Maps - I-69 Finish Line


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## ChrisZwolle

That's a nice bridge design they are using there.


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## TM_Germany

^^ I wanted to say the same. It's always nice to see some actual architecture incorporated into engineering projects, it should happen far more often.


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## brewerfan386

^^Meanwhile, here in Wisco the DOT is actively trying to find ways to remove most decorative elements from upcoming designs....
-------

ITB. AARoads. You know how it goes...

_"Oops. Forgot about the paving pictures which I mentioned earlier. The work day was coming to an end, but I was able to snap a few as the crew finished up. Photos were taken Saturday, October 16, 2021, unless otherwise noted.









Subcontractor Milestone Contractors LP paving a wide slab of concrete for the future northbound lanes of I-69 near the Grand Valley Blvd. overpass in Martinsville, Indiana; looking slightly northwest. The paving operation involved three pieces of equipment — a spreader, a slipform paver, and a texture/cure machine. Pictured are the spreader (right) and slipform paver (left).









Loads of trucked-in fresh concrete were deposited in a hopper attached to the spreader.









The hopper rises to empty the concrete to the ground. Note the wood in the dowel rod assembly. That's the end point for the day's paving.









Behind the slipform paver, members of the paving crew smooth out any uneven spots and remove excess water from the slab. About 50 yards further back was the texture/cure machine, which tined the slab and applied the curing compound. The slipform paver model was a GOMACO GP4. More details about this machine can be found here.









Another view.









Momentary pause in the action as the crew awaits the arrival of more trucks ferrying in the fresh concrete; looking northwest.









It's back to work as a truck arrives.









Just a few more feet to go."_

Current maps of the construction area: Maps - I-69 Finish Line


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## sponge_bob

That is one big slipform paver, never seen one that big myself. What is '_tined_' ??? and what is the curing compound for....will it not airdry anyway???


brewerfan386 said:


> _which tined the slab and applied the curing compound._


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## brewerfan386

sponge_bob said:


> That is one big slipform paver, never seen one that big myself. What is '_tined_' ??? and what is the curing compound for....will it not airdry anyway???


Tining is process of placing the small groves typically found on concrete pavement. The curing compound could be for any number of things from reduced drying time, weather resistance, noise abatement, better grip during wet weather, etc. 🍻


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## geogregor

sponge_bob said:


> That is one big slipform paver, never seen one that big myself. What is '_tined_' ??? and what is the curing compound for....will it not airdry anyway???



More here:









What is the difference in texturing and tining of a rigid pavement?


Answer: Texturing Artificial turf is dragged longitudinally over the pavement behind the finishing machine. The drag should produce a good longitudinal micro-texture, but should not tear the surface. If it is not producing a good micro-texture due to slumping fresh concrete, the contractor shoul...




www.quora.com







https://wisconsindot.gov/rdwy/cmm/cm-04-18.pdf





> Tining
> 
> The turf drag, followed by a tining machine, drags a steel rake across the slab, producing macro-texture. This macro-texture improves wet pavement friction by providing escape channels for water trapped under vehicle tires. All tining will be longitudinal to the direction of traffic unless the project leader directs or allows otherwise.
> 
> 1. Longitudinal Tining
> 
> A Marquette University study showed that longitudinal tining gave the quietest riding pavement and that longitudinal tining does not diminish the friction factor to a degree that it could be considered a safety risk. There was also no significant difference in the performance of a longitudinally tined surface and a transversely tined surface in wet or rainy environmental conditions. The research concluded that longitudinally tined surfaces performed as well as transversely tined surfaces in all conditions tested and that they had the advantage of being quieter in most cases.
> 
> 2. Transverse Tining
> 
> The contractor should only use transverse tining in locations where the project leader directs or allows. This flexibility is provided under the specification to help address project-specific difficulties, such as equipment breakdown or malfunction that may come up, or in areas where matching the adjacent tining is necessary.
> 
> Transversely tined pavements, particularly those with uniform tine spacing, may however produce an objectionable tire/pavement whine.
> 
> 3. Hand Tining
> 
> The specification also allows hand tining of areas such as ramps, gaps, intersections, etc. where machine tining is not practical. In these areas it may be difficult or impossible to maneuver the tining machine, or the machine may be in use elsewhere on the project when these areas are poured. The specifications require longitudinal tining for all handwork unless the project leader directs or allows otherwise.


I heard that in Poland at this stage they also add chemical compound which washes away cement from the surface during early stage of curing, leaving aggregate "sticking out" which improves friction of the finished surface.


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## sponge_bob

Are they slipforming a wearing course or a base there?


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## geogregor

sponge_bob said:


> Are they slipforming a wearing course or a base there?


There is no "wearing course" on concrete surfaces.

Composition and Structure of Rigid Pavement - The Constructor


> The structure of a rigid pavement consists following layers.
> 
> Concrete slab or surface course
> Granular base or stabilized base course
> Granular subbase or stabilized subbase course
> Frost protection layer
> Subgrade soil


https://pavementinteractive.org/ref...ypes-and-history/pavement-types/pcc-pavement/










On the photographs above it looks like they are forming pavement slab.


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## sponge_bob

geogregor said:


> There is no "wearing course" on concrete surfaces. On the photographs above it looks like they are forming pavement slab.


A finished road rather than a road base so.


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-17 Improvement Project advances with developer agreement *
_
*Construction set to begin in 2022 on 23-mile section of highway north of Phoenix*

The Arizona Department of Transportation has signed an agreement with the developer team that will design, build, operate and maintain the Interstate 17 Improvement Project from Anthem Way to Sunset Point. 

The total project cost is $445,940,000, which includes the construction cost by the developer team, along with ADOT’s cost to administer the project. 

Construction is scheduled to begin in 2022 and is expected to take approximately three years. Now that the contract is signed, work can begin on this highly anticipated project that will include 15 miles of widening from Anthem Way to Black Canyon City and eight miles of flex lanes from Black Canyon City to Sunset Point.

Once complete, the I-17 Improvement Project will help alleviate congestion and improve safety and traffic flow north of the metro-Phoenix region. This project will improve 23 miles of I-17, including 15 miles of roadway widening, two bridge replacements, one bridge deck replacement, 10 bridge widenings, and the installation of an eight-mile flex lane system—a new feature for Arizona’s highway system. Flex lanes are proven technology to help reduce congestion on I-17 during peak travel times and allow for traffic movement during emergency situations. 

The I-17 flex lanes will operate as a separate, two-lane roadway carrying one direction of traffic at a time depending on the greatest need along the steep, winding eight miles between Black Canyon City and Sunset Point. For example, the flex lanes will be able to carry heavy northbound traffic on a Friday or heavy southbound traffic on a Sunday. Similarly, ADOT will be able to open the flex lanes to accommodate traffic any time if a crash or other incident causes long delays. The flex lanes will be next to, but physically separated from southbound I-17 using concrete barriers. Access to the flex-lane entrances will be controlled by gates. _





__





I-17 Improvement Project advances with developer agreement | ADOT







azdot.gov





So a 15 mile segment of I-17 will be widened from four to (I presume) six lanes between Anthem Way and Black Canyon City, in addition an 8 mile two-lane reversible roadway will be constructed north of there to Sunset Point. I-17 has a substantial elevation change on this route. Sunset Point is a famous viewpoint along southbound I-17.


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## JMBasquiat




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## ChrisZwolle

The I-39 / I-43 / I-90 interchange in Beloit, Wisconsin is being reconstructed. The I-43 to I-39/90 south flyover opened to traffic yesterday. This used to be a cloverleaf.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Ahead of Schedule & Under Budget: I-25 South Gap Will Open All Travel Lanes Shortly After Thanksgiving, Delivering Increased Mobility One-year Early *
_
Gov. Jared Polis announced today that the I-25 South Gap project will open all lanes to motorists nearly one year ahead of schedule. The project will improve safety and travel reliability with new Express Lanes, wider shoulders, rebuilt bridges, new wildlife crossings, new pavement and improved technology along 18 miles of I-25 between Castle Rock and Monument. 

CDOT’s I-25 South Gap project broke ground in September 2018. CDOT and its contractor partner Kraemer North America originally anticipated opening the Express Lanes and completing major construction in November 2022. Despite unique weather patterns and a global pandemic, CDOT and Kraemer worked together to deliver improved mobility with the added lane becoming available a year early - and within budget. _

Full release: Ahead of Schedule & Under Budget: I-25 South Gap Will Open All Travel Lanes Shortly After Thanksgiving, Delivering Increased Mobility One-year Early | Colorado Governor Jared Polis

This means that I-25 is now at least six lanes between Colorado Springs and Denver.


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## zaphod

Plans for a widening of Interstate 30 between downtown Fort Worth and Loop 820 West are public now, I guess for a few months now.

TXDOT website for I-30 West Corridor

It looks like the stack at 820 and 30 is going to be rebuilt and have much longer direct connectors.

Also It's going to fix the loop ramp down to University Drive. There are several alternatives to rebuild the messy cloverleaf-trumpet monstrosity where I-30, State Highway 183(Alta Mere Blvd) and Spur 341(Lockheed Blvd) converge. At least one of them is just a conventional but wide traffic light intersection with the feeder roads and the freeway just goes underneath. There's also a proposal to keep the cloverleaf, and/or one that would put in direct connector flyovers to 341.

Where 30 and the Chisholm Trail Parkway and the Rosedale viaduct meet is already like a massive river of roadways, this is going to make it even wider. Though further down it doesn't appear to involve much in the way of taking any buildings along the route, though there is an old 1950s era water tower that is in the way and will come down. At that location it appears they are going to have to put the eastbound feeder road on some kind of bridge that's right against the highway below it, not sure what's up with that.

A couple of braided ramps in various locations seem to be planned as well.


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## JMBasquiat

*Gov. Pritzker and Illinois Department of Transportation Celebrate Completion of I-74 Bridge Over Mississippi River in the Quad Cities*
_
*QUAD CITIES -* Gov. JB Pritzker and the Illinois Department of Transportation today joined with the Federal Highway Administration, community leaders and residents of the Quad Cities to celebrate *the upcoming completion of the new Interstate 74 Mississippi River Bridge*, one of the biggest projects in state history and a transformational investment in infrastructure for the region. The new bridge is the latest project delivered under Gov. Pritzker to improve safety and mobility, enhance quality of life, and position an important region of the state for economic opportunity for future generations.

"The I-74 Mississippi River Bridge has long been a critical east-west link in the nation's transportation network. Alongside our Iowan and federal partners, we're taking a critical piece of infrastructure that has been mainly untouched since 1960 and turning it into the centerpiece residents deserve," *said Governor JB Pritzker*. "This is one of the largest projects in state history - and proof that Illinois is laying the foundation for safer and shorter commutes, while creating and sustaining hundreds of thousands of jobs across the state. It's a win for the businesses and people of Illinois, a win for the businesses and people of Iowa, and a win for the entire Midwest."

*After more than four years of construction, the I-74 Mississippi River Bridge is anticipated to open to traffic in early December, delivering four lanes in each direction and providing improved safety for all travelers. The bridge includes a 14-foot-wide bike and pedestrian path, with a scenic overlook and connections to existing paths in Bettendorf and Moline.*



https://www.illinois.gov/news/press-release.24217.html


_
Photos of the bridge can be found here:





__





I-74 River Bridge


I-74 River Bridge Project



www.i74riverbridge.com


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## geogregor

JMBasquiat said:


> *Gov. Pritzker and Illinois Department of Transportation Celebrate Completion of I-74 Bridge Over Mississippi River in the Quad Cities*
> 
> _*QUAD CITIES -* Gov. JB Pritzker and the Illinois Department of Transportation today joined with the Federal Highway Administration, community leaders and residents of the Quad Cities to celebrate *the upcoming completion of the new Interstate 74 Mississippi River Bridge*, one of the biggest projects in state history and a transformational investment in infrastructure for the region. The new bridge is the latest project delivered under Gov. Pritzker to improve safety and mobility, enhance quality of life, and position an important region of the state for economic opportunity for future generations.
> 
> "The I-74 Mississippi River Bridge has long been a critical east-west link in the nation's transportation network. Alongside our Iowan and federal partners, we're taking a critical piece of infrastructure that has been mainly untouched since 1960 and turning it into the centerpiece residents deserve," *said Governor JB Pritzker*. "This is one of the largest projects in state history - and proof that Illinois is laying the foundation for safer and shorter commutes, while creating and sustaining hundreds of thousands of jobs across the state. It's a win for the businesses and people of Illinois, a win for the businesses and people of Iowa, and a win for the entire Midwest."
> 
> *After more than four years of construction, the I-74 Mississippi River Bridge is anticipated to open to traffic in early December, delivering four lanes in each direction and providing improved safety for all travelers. The bridge includes a 14-foot-wide bike and pedestrian path, with a scenic overlook and connections to existing paths in Bettendorf and Moline.*
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.illinois.gov/news/press-release.24217.html
> 
> 
> _
> Photos of the bridge can be found here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I-74 River Bridge
> 
> 
> I-74 River Bridge Project
> 
> 
> 
> www.i74riverbridge.com


Will they demolish both of the old bridges?


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## ChrisZwolle

The old suspension bridge looks bigger than it actually is. The main span is only 226 meters / 741 ft. The new arch bridge has a slightly longer span.


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## zaphod

I know it's obsolete but that bridge has a really nice aesthetic look to it.


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## brewerfan386

From ITB, on AARoads forum:

_"Before putting up more photos from Marion County, here's a brief photo update of the progress in Martinsville.

Photos were taken Thursday, December 2, 2021, unless otherwise noted.









Looking north from the Grand Valley Blvd. overpass in Martinsville. The paving of the lanes appears to be nearly complete where the surcharge had been placed. It's impossible to determine from this perspective how far along the ramps or the two interchange roundabouts might be, but, overall, it appears good progress is being made.









Placing a form for a concrete pour; looking south from the State Road 44 in Martinsville.









Looking north from the State Road 44 overpass. On the left a form has been placed for a concrete pour. Why this strip of roadway will be paved using a form, and not slipformed, I have no idea. To the north, from this point to the temporary closure at Morgan Street, prep work to pave the unpaved southbound section continues. It seems the concrete median barrier wall will be extended, as well, in the area where the slipform paver is located. In the foreground, the area where the unpaved section of roadway widens appears to be where the grassy median will come to an end.









Another perspective looking northeast from near the State Road 44 overpass. Measuring to make sure everything is as it needs to be.









View looking northeast from near the Grand Valley Blvd. overpass.









Sightly closer view looking north from the Grand Valley Blvd. overpass.

Substantial completion of the Martinsville segment is rapidly approaching. From the bridges over Indian Creek to the temporary northern closure point at Morgan Street, the northbound lanes are now completely paved, aside from the bridge approach slabs at the SR 252 interchange, and, perhaps, the Ohio Street interchange. North of the SR 44 bridge, two lane strips remain to be paved on the southbound lanes. Also, there's a small unpaved section of left shoulder south of that overpass that needs to be concreted. In short, it's about done. Colder weather is expected early next week in central Indiana, with perhaps a little snow or mix mid-week. But after that minor event passes, temperatures in the upper 40s are forecast to return."_

Current maps of the construction area: Maps - I-69 Finish Line


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## ChrisZwolle

There was some news this week that I-69 through Martinsville might open to traffic before the end of the year.


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## brewerfan386

From ITB over on the AARoads forum:

_"Here's a few more recent pictures of the Martinsville segment. Photos were taken Sunday, December 12, 2021, unless otherwise noted.









The State Road 37/Morgan Street juncture just north of Martinsville; looking north from about 1/2 mile north of the State Road 44 overpass. Paving the last segment of the southbound lanes with concrete between the SR 44 overpass and aforementioned juncture has paused on Sunday, but will resume Monday, December 13th.









Closer look. New signage is now up.









Looking northeast toward the southbound lanes from about a 1/2 mile north of the SR 44 overpass. In the background, the spreader and slipform paver sit, ready to be started up to pave the last stretch south to the SR 44 overpass. With Monday's good weather, it's a good bet the paving crew aimed to pave all the way to the SR 44 overpass, getting it all done in one day. This paving job will complete the paving of the southbound driving lanes. When completed, the entire Martinsville segment will be paved up, with the exception of the southbound inside shoulder north of SR 44, which will be paved soon, but later.









The view looking north from the SR 44 overpass. Striping in underway and near complete on the northbound lanes. According to the INDOT's latest Project Update, the northbound lanes will be opened to traffic first, followed by the southbound lanes a few days later. Not visible in the background is the slipform paver, which sits just around the bend.









Looking southeast from the SR 44 overpass. The southbound lanes are now completely paved south of the overpass.









Sign gantry to be installed over the southbound collector/distributor lane about a quarter mile south of the SR 44 overpass; looking southeast.









The spot where the southbound collector/distributor lane splits off from the mainline; looking north.









Closer look. The area around the drain has been opened up, including slicing the barrier wall, to fix ... a drainage problem. To have such an issue crop up less than three week until the road is scheduled to open has to be giving someone indigestion. But, I guess, you've got to roll with the punches. 









Another view looking north from the SR 44 overpass. On the right is the northbound entrance ramp from SR 44.









Looking south toward the SR 44 overpass, with the aforementioned drain rework in the foreground left. 









Another look northeast from about 1/2 mile south of the SR 44 overpass. On top of the barrier wall are sets of dowel rods, which will be inserted into the side of the fresh concrete slab just after the slipform paver has passed."_

Current maps of the construction area: Maps - I-69 Finish Line


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## brewerfan386

I-69 throughout the Martinsville, IN area has opened over the last day or so...

Courtesy of ITB over at the AARoads Forum.

_"At 5 pm on Monday, the process of opening the northbound lanes of I-69 in Martinsville got underway. The first step in the process was opening the northbound entrance ramp from State Road 44, followed, to my surprise, by the opening of the southbound exit ramp to SR 44. Just prior to the ramp openings, the State Road 37/Morgan Street intersection was sealed off.

And yet, at 6 pm, the northbound lanes still remained closed between the SR 44 overpass and the Indian Creek bridges to the south. It appeared the plan was to open the northbound lanes in segments, moving south from the SR 44 overpass/interchange, and progressing interchange by interchange. However, work was continuing into the evening in the vicinity of eastern roundabout at the SR 252/Hospital Dr. interchange, and that may have impacted the opening process. Exactly what work was ongoing I don't know. If the northbound exit ramp to SR 252 was to be opened, at least half of the eastern traffic circle needed to functional, allowing exiting traffic to travel east on SR 252 or to swing around north to the collector/distributor lane leading up to State Road 44 and to I-69 northbound.

Because I didn't stick around after 6 pm, I don't know what exactly transpired. But it's a good chance the northbound lanes were completely opened not too long after. After all, the plan was to open the northbound on Monday, and that they most likely did, even if the process went late into the night. 

Photos were taken Monday, December 20, 2021, unless otherwise noted.









At 5:45 pm, looking north from the Grand Valley Blvd. overpass in Martinsville.









Looking south from the Grand Valley Blvd. overpass. As the lanes were not yet open, the car probably was driven by a construction team member who was either heading to check something out or going home. I say "probably" because I've seen a lot of strange things while taking pictures, and it's not inconceivable someone managed to get on the road.









To facilitate the construction of the roundabouts at SR 252/Hospital Dr. interchange, Hospital Drive is closed just east of the hospital; looking east. Seems like a couple more construction days will be needed to complete the western roundabout to the extent it is functional and SR 252/Hospital Dr. can be reopened.









Removing the "closed" banner off the sign at the State Road 44 overpass; looking east.









Traffic entering the just opened northbound lanes via the entrance ramp at State Road 44; looking south.









Southbound traffic on the exit ramp to SR 44; looking northeast. Note the drone in use, probably being utilized to monitor the traffic as the lanes opened up. I didn't attempt to get on the overpass itself as I normally would because traffic was heavy, and vehicles were going this way and that. As expected, some drivers seemed unfamiliar with the new pattern, but, generally, most everyone was courteous and cautious.









Looking north from the Grand Valley Blvd. overpass at about 4:30pm.









Closer look.









Vehicles which entered the northbound lanes at SR 44 head north on the newly opened pavement. At the bottom of the hill, the former State Road 37/Morgan Street juncture has been sealed off.









Another perspective looking north from the Grand Valley Blvd. overpass as night began to settle in.









Signage on Hospital Dr. near the SR 252/Hospital Dr. interchange; looking east."_

Current maps of the construction area: Maps - I-69 Finish Line


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## geogregor

Is this the longest green field freeway project in the US?

Some curiosity:


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## ChrisZwolle

geogregor said:


> Is this the longest green field freeway project in the US?


It's technically not a greenfield project, this part is a rebuild of the existing four lane State Highway 37 to a controlled-access Interstate Highway. But in terms of mileage, it is one of the longest new freeway projects in the United States. 

Another big project in terms of greenfield mileage is the eastern half of State Highway 99 as the outer beltway of Houston. 

Interstate 69 from Texas to Indiana is a major greenfield project, but progress is quite slow outside of Indiana. Texas is constructing most of the new Interstate mileage, but these are mostly reconstruction of existing U.S. Highways, especially US 59 north and south of Houston.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Speaking of Interstate 69, a section in Kentucky is moving towards construction:

*KYTC awards contract for I-69 ORX Section 1*
_
It’s the final key step to move one of Gov. Andy Beshear’s top-priority transportation projects to construction – Section 1 of the I-69 Ohio River Crossing (I-69 ORX) between Henderson and Evansville, Indiana. A contract has been awarded to the Ragle, Inc./Stantec Consulting Services, Inc. design-build team. Construction is expected to begin in Henderson early next year. 

I-69 ORX Section 1 focuses on improvements in Henderson and extends from KY 425 to US 60. Construction is expected to begin in early 2022 and continue through 2025. It will extend I-69 by more than six miles and includes interchanges with KY 351, US 41 near Kimsey Lane and at US 60.

I-69 ORX is divided into two sections for construction. I-69 ORX Section 2 is a bistate project between Kentucky and Indiana that will complete the I-69 connection from US 60 in Henderson to I-69 in Evansville. It includes the new river crossing. Design is expected to begin in 2025 with construction anticipated to begin in 2027 and continue through 2031. Both states continue to look for opportunities to accelerate that timeline._









Henderson, KY


KYTC awards contract for I-69 ORX Section 1




www.cityofhendersonky.org


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## zaphod

I wonder if there's any perceptable differences between "new" interstate segments (like I-49 north of Shreveport for example), basically the projects that moved forward around the time of the Obama administration that got a lot of money flowing into infrastructure.

Fewer billboards for one, and whatever new gas stations get built will have clean bathrooms. Nothing like pulling into what used to be an old Diamond Shamrock having to take a leak, and the clerk gives you a wooden clipboard with a key tied to it and you walk around back to the bombed-out toilet and there's one of those reusable towel things on a ring.


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## ChrisZwolle

Drivers were stranded for up to 24 hours on Interstate 95 between Richmond and Washington. Many had to sleep on the Interstate.









Icy I-95 in Virginia finally reopened after storm left hundreds of drivers stranded


A winter storm caused a traffic nightmare. Motorists spent the night in their vehicles, and a 40-mile stretch of the highway was closed.




www.cbsnews.com





It looks like a localized event, I-95 seems to be the only Interstate Highway affected by this.


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## sponge_bob

I don't think the I-69 will ever be built south of Memphis. Finishing the missing bits north of there will be the height of progress on that corridor.


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## ChrisZwolle

Senator Tim Kaine is also stuck in the monster traffic jam on I-95. He say's he's on the road for 27 hours. I suppose he took a trip from Richmond to D.C.


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## xzmattzx

Has Interstate 587 in North Carolina, from I-95 east to Greenville, been mentioned yet? It was approved and apparently signed back in November.


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## geogregor




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## cuartango

^^ Very compressed ice maybe?


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## ChrisZwolle

The Interstate 4 express lanes through Orlando are nearing their opening date. The work is completed, emergency services are now getting acquainted with the limited-access nature of the express lanes. There are emergency access points, which can be operated remotely, but also manually should the need ever arise. 

The I-4 express lanes is probably the largest road project in Florida at this time. The project is also called the 'I-4 Ultimate', even though a 'Beyond I-4 Ultimate' has already been identified due to the rapid growth in the region. Orlando had only about 200,000 people in an urbanized development in 1960, but over 2.6 million today. The metropolitan area grows by 50,000 people per year. 

The project has totally rebuilt and expanded 21 miles (34 km) of I-4 through Orlando, with a general configuration of 2 tolled express lanes each way and up to 4 general purpose lanes each way. The project addressed many of the design deficiencies from the original construction in the 1960s, as most of the corridor was built as a rural freeway which over time became an overloaded urban corridor. Large new interchanges have been built, 16 interchanges were reconstructed, 74 bridges were replaced, 13 bridges were widened, 53 bridges were built new. 

The total cost amounts to $ 2.3 billion. Which isn't even very expensive considering the large scope of the project.


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## geogregor

^^^

I have to return to Orlando and check it out. I used to work in World Disney World when I was student and I was there twice since then. Driving I-4 always used to be a pain. And you are right, it is extremely fast growing metropolitan area.


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## sponge_bob

geogregor said:


> And you are right, it is extremely fast growing metropolitan area.


That is the problem with the Interstate network though, it is peppered with complex urban upgrades costing $2bn a pop to sort out where I x and I y or I x and US xy cross since 1960 something. In many countries the interstate equivalent runs around town but in the US it tends to be straight up the middle. This _other one_ may yet hit $2bn for 10 miles ...16km...but nobody really knows yet.



https://gazette.com/dg-print/colorado-i-70-construction-problems-lead-to-extra-100-to-150-million-cost/article_2692160e-5202-11eb-bd61-ff3128e32de2.html



They just kicked off another I-70 upgrade, c.7 miles for $700m further west but that is up in the rockies. 









Firms chosen for $700 million I-70 expansion between Floyd Hill and Clear Creek Canyon


Work will get underway this year on the first pieces of a $700 million project to upgrade Interstate 70 where it comes down Floyd Hill and heads into Clear Creek Canyon after state transportation o…




www.denverpost.com


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## VoltAmps

That stretch of I-4 looks magnificent. Literally a work of art from an engineering stand point. It’s so visually appealing.


----------



## bogdymol

A nice video explaining the numbering of the US Interstate system:


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## coreyt

VoltAmps said:


> That stretch of I-4 looks magnificent. Literally a work of art from an engineering stand point. It’s so visually appealing.


9 years of awful traffic, it better be worth it. Good lord it was a disaster.


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## ChrisZwolle

The Oklahoma Turnpike Authority and the Oklahoma Department of Transportation have published the 15-year plan for the Oklahoma Turnpike system:





__





Access Oklahoma


ACCESS Oklahoma’s highway infrastructure project to improve community access across our turnpike network, reducing congestion and providing a safer commute for drivers.




www.accessoklahoma.com





It contains some pretty big projects, most of them are on this map.











I-44 Turner Turnpike, six lane expansion of the remaining 60 miles between Oklahoma City and Tulsa, $ 1.1 billion cost estimate
Kickapoo Turnpike, south extension to I-35 at Purcell (east bypass of Norman). Roughly 29 miles of new turnpike, $ 981 million cost estimate
East-West Connector. New turnpike south of Oklahoma City. Roughly 18 miles, $ 883 million cost estimate
JKT to Tri-City Connector. Extension of the John Kilpatrick Turnpike on the southwest side of Oklahoma City. Roughly 8 miles, $ 252 million
Widening of the John Kilpatrick Turnpike along the west/north side of Oklahoma City. 15 miles, $ 342 million
I-44 Will Rogers Turnpike expansion east of Tulsa, 12 miles $ 315 million.
Gilcrease Expressway extension around Tulsa + widening. 5 miles, $ 425 million.


----------



## cuartango

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Oklahoma Turnpike Authority and the Oklahoma Department of Transportation have published the 15-year plan for the Oklahoma Turnpike system:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Access Oklahoma
> 
> 
> ACCESS Oklahoma’s highway infrastructure project to improve community access across our turnpike network, reducing congestion and providing a safer commute for drivers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.accessoklahoma.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It contains some pretty big projects, most of them are on this map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I-44 Turner Turnpike, six lane expansion of the remaining 60 miles between Oklahoma City and Tulsa, $ 1.1 billion cost estimate
> Kickapoo Turnpike, south extension to I-35 at Purcell (east bypass of Norman). Roughly 29 miles of new turnpike, $ 981 million cost estimate
> East-West Connector. New turnpike south of Oklahoma City. Roughly 18 miles, $ 883 million cost estimate
> JKT to Tri-City Connector. Extension of the John Kilpatrick Turnpike on the southwest side of Oklahoma City. Roughly 8 miles, $ 252 million
> Widening of the John Kilpatrick Turnpike along the west/north side of Oklahoma City. 15 miles, $ 342 million
> I-44 Will Rogers Turnpike expansion east of Tulsa, 12 miles $ 315 million.
> Gilcrease Expressway extension around Tulsa + widening. 5 miles, $ 425 million.


Oklahoma City metropolitan area is growing really fast!

I am also glad that I44 is being upgraded to six lanes. I guess that currently there are only 6 lanes near Tulsa, right?.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Motorists now ‘On Broadway’ after I-235/I-44 opening celebration*
_
Transportation officials raised the curtain Thursday afternoon on the last major act that will significantly impact traffic at the I-235/I-44 interchange, which puts motorists back “On Broadway” after three years of construction.

This $105 million, three-year-long project widened I-235 to six lanes and up to eight lanes in some areas between N. 50th St. and N. 63rd St. The reconstruction includes 11 new bridges in the 1-mile-long work zone. Crews built two flyover ramps to move traffic more efficiently and safely through the interchange, and made this the first four-level interchange on the state interstate system. The flyover ramps also replaced the northeastern and southeastern loop ramps._





__





Motorists now ‘On Broadway’ after I-235/I-44 opening celebration







oklahoma.gov





This is reported to be the first 4-level interchange in Oklahoma.









Oklahoma opens state’s first four-level highway


The $241 million project took more than a decade to complete




www.koco.com













photo by the Oklahoma Department of Transportation


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## geogregor




----------



## ChrisZwolle

The first few minutes actually debunked the narrative that bridges would be in such bad shape in the U.S. Being ranked 13 out of 200-something countries is not bad. Neither is the fact that the vast majority of bridges are in good or fair condition.

One key characteristic of the U.S. is its diversity. The media often thinks in terms of Washington, New York and California (as is also evidenced in much of the video), but the condition of roads & bridges varies quite significantly between states. The examples are often limited to 3 or 5 states, but there are 50 states. Studies also show that the condition of roads and bridges is not nearly as bad in many states as it is portrayed in the media, and contrary to belief, has also improved significantly. FHWA data shows that the number and share of 'structurally deficient' bridges is much lower today (7%) than it was 30 years ago (22%).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*SmartLane Corridor Coming to I-275*
_
*Construction of the first SmartLane corridor in southwest Ohio is coming to Interstate 275, with work getting under way in early Spring. *

The SmartLane project will relieve congestion on I-275 between U.S. 42 in Hamilton County and S.R. 28 in Clermont County by widening inside median shoulders for use as an additional travel lane during peak travel times. The creation of the SmartLane will save taxpayer dollars by eliminating the need to construct a permanent new lane to address a periodic problem.

Using a system of cameras, sensors, variable speed limit signs, and large digital message boards to manage access and speed and communicate with motorists, SmartLane corridors allow the Ohio Department of Transportation to address periods of traffic congestion by temporarily opening median shoulders to drivers.

The John R. Jurgensen Company was awarded a contract for approximately $22 million to complete the I-275 project. Construction is scheduled to begin in April, and the first section of the westbound SmartLane is scheduled to be open in the summer of 2023.

A second project to complete the I-275 SmartLane corridor is currently in the design stages and is programmed for sale in 2026._

Full press release: SmartLane Corridor Coming to I-275


----------



## JMBasquiat

> *State launches next phase of I-80 corridor construction in Joliet: ‘A game changer for this community’*
> 
> SPRINGFIELD — Gov. J.B. Pritzker on Thursday announced the beginning of the next phase of construction along the Interstate 80 corridor, a widening and reconfiguring of Houbolt Road in Joliet that an administration official promised would be “transformational.”
> 
> *The state investment in the $200 million public-private partnership is $32 million,* Pritzker said, highlighting the ongoing benefits of one of his major first-year legislative accomplishments, the Rebuild Illinois capital plan.
> 
> *The state’s investment in the Houbolt Road project will widen the road and reconfigure the I-80 interchange into a diverging, diamond design.*












State launches next phase of I-80 corridor construction in Joliet with Houbolt Road project


The state investment in the $200 million public-private partnership is $32 million, Gov. J.B. Pritzker said. CenterPoint Properties, an inland port, is investing up to $170 million to build a new toll bridge on Houbolt Road over the Des Plaines River.




chicago.suntimes.com


----------



## JMBasquiat

Progress on the Jane Byrne Interchange near downtown Chicago. The interchange connects I-90/I-94/I-290 and Ida B. Wells Drive and has been a major traffic bottleneck for a long time. Reconstruction is expected to be finished by December 2022.


















































More: https://twitter.com/Thejanebyrne?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author


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## geogregor

What are they actually doing there? Widening?


----------



## Luki_SL

^^









Construction on Chicago's Jane Byrne Interchange to Be Completed in 2022: IDOT


After about nine years, construction should be complete on Chicago’s Jane Byrne Interchange by late this year, according to the Illinois Department of Transportation.




www.nbcchicago.com


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Gov. Edwards, DOTD Celebrate Substantial Completion of I-10 Widening Project*
_
Today Gov. John Bel Edwards, DOTD Secretary Shawn D. Wilson, Ph.D. and other state and local officials celebrated the substantial completion of the I-10 widening project in Calcasieu Parish.

This $45.5 million project, which stretched from approximately I-210 to LA 108, widened I-10 from three to four lanes. The Maple Fork bridges were replaced, and crews installed new drainage structures, median barriers, permanent striping, guardrail and cable barriers.

As of 2021, more than 108,000 vehicles traveled the corridor daily. That number is expected to increase to 150,000 motorists by 2045.

The project’s contractor is the Alexandria, Louisiana-based Gilchrist Construction. Work began on the project in January 2020._

Full press release: Gov. Edwards, DOTD Celebrate Substantial Completion of I-10 Widening Project | Office of Governor John Bel Edwards


This is a short segment of I-10 west of the I-210 interchange on the west side of Lake Charles, Louisiana.


----------



## ATLDETguy

*MoDOT proposes $122 million project to improve I-70/I-64 interchange in St. Charles County*




> According to MoDOT, the three major routes are a top priority for the region. The I-70/I-64 interchange serves a large amount of traffic volume daily, with additional growth anticipated in the future. Currently, approximately 75,000 vehicles use I-64 south of the interchange daily, while U.S. 61 carries over 60,000 per day. As both a major east-west interstate of national importance and a commuter route connecting western St. Charles County to the rest of the St. Louis region, I-70 serves 85,000-90,000 vehicles per day.The plan includes adding lanes and reconfiguring ramps to improve safety.


MoDOT proposes $122 million project to improve I-70/I-64 interchange in St. Charles County


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## ChrisZwolle

Nice, new culvert. Which replaced a bridge structure.









2 months later:

















Flash flooding washes out part of Interstate 10 in Riverside County as wild weather continues


The damaged road near Desert Center was a detour lane created because of ongoing construction.




www.latimes.com


----------



## TaterTot

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nice, new culvert. Which replaced a bridge structure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2 months later:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flash flooding washes out part of Interstate 10 in Riverside County as wild weather continues
> 
> 
> The damaged road near Desert Center was a detour lane created because of ongoing construction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.latimes.com


Actually the stuff that washed away was the temporary lanes that were put in place while they replace a set of lanes running in the same direction, so this culvert wasn't permanent. They're rebuilding the freeway in this area and they added a third set of lanes in the median while they rebuild the permanent lanes on either side.


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## geogregor

TaterTot said:


> Actually the stuff that washed away was the temporary lanes that were put in place while they replace a set of lanes running in the same direction, so this culvert wasn't permanent. They're rebuilding the freeway in this area and they added a third set of lanes in the median while they rebuild the permanent lanes on either side.


Yes, that's what I thought.


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-95 Widening in Lumberton Begins This Week *
_
Construction on widening Interstate 95 through Lumberton begins this week.

A contractor for the N.C. Department of Transportation will widen the interstate to a total of eight lanes between Exit 13 (I-74 junction) and just north of mile marker 21. Construction will take four years to complete._

Full release: I-95 Widening in Lumberton Begins This Week

This is I-95 through Lumberton, North Carolina. It is currently a four lane freeway, so capacity would be doubled to eight lanes. 

The I-95 widening through North Carolina spent a lot of time on the backburner due to more pressing priorities in the state, but the expansion of I-95 is being accelerated since 2020. Widening is also underway between Fayetteville and I-40.


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## xzmattzx

About time. I-95 should really be 6 lanes from Miami to Portland, since so many go somewhere between any two points between those two.

I-90 between Boston and Chicago should be 6 lanes the whole way as well.


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## ChrisZwolle

*I-69 interchange at S.R. 144 to open partially*_

*Two movements detoured to complete ramps south of S.R. 144*

Another I-69 interchange is expected to partially open Thursday night, removing a stoplight for through traffic on State Road 37. _

Full release: I-69 interchange at S.R. 144 to open partially - I-69 Finish Line

According to Open Street Map, a circa 3 mile / 5 kilometer segment of SR-37 (now I-69) is now a freeway-grade road in this area. The interchange is only half open at this time, but it appears to be free-flow for I-69 traffic.

SR-37 is being converted into I-69 south of Indianapolis, largely on the existing route (which already was a four lane divided highway). So it is opened in many stages.

Location: OpenStreetMap


----------



## DZH22

xzmattzx said:


> About time. I-95 should really be 6 lanes from Miami to Portland, since so many go somewhere between any two points between those two.
> 
> I-90 between Boston and Chicago should be 6 lanes the whole way as well.


When you say 6 lanes, do you mean 3 in each direction? I could see that making sense as a minimum for these routes. However, huge swaths of both routes are wide open rural areas that are currently only 2 lanes in each direction, so if you mean to expand those to 6 each way then that's totally unnecessary outside the cities.


----------



## xzmattzx

DZH22 said:


> When you say 6 lanes, do you mean 3 in each direction? I could see that making sense as a minimum for these routes. However, huge swaths of both routes are wide open rural areas that are currently only 2 lanes in each direction, so if you mean to expand those to 6 each way then that's totally unnecessary outside the cities.


3 each way


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## VoltAmps

xzmattzx said:


> 3 each way


I still thinks that’s unnecessary. I’ve done the commute between Buffalo and Utica for many years and imo there are a lot of sections that don’t warrant the increase


----------



## wgerman

VoltAmps said:


> I still thinks that’s unnecessary. I’ve done the commute between Buffalo and Utica for many years and imo there are a lot of sections that don’t warrant the increase


I-35 between Dallas and San Antonio is not one of them its three lanes northbound and southbound for over 200 miles. The sheer amount of traffic has TxDot already planning a fourth lane in some areas, thankfully that was idea was built into the bridges when I-35 was re made to three lanes.


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## fubo

VoltAmps said:


> I still thinks that’s unnecessary. I’ve done the commute between Buffalo and Utica for many years and imo there are a lot of sections that don’t warrant the increase


The stretch of I90 between Buffalo and Rochester is almost always packed. It definitely needs the third lane in each direction. This is especially true when the STEM site comes online, along with 6 Flags amphitheater concerts and Bills NFL games.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

An aerial photo by TxDOT of the I-10 / Loop 375 interchange east of El Paso, Texas.

This is an interesting interchange, because it's a full stack interchange on top of a full cloverleaf interchange. I'm not sure if there is any other interchange like that in the U.S. or beyond.

Location: Google Maps


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## ChrisZwolle

An overheight vehicle struck an overpass over I-5 near Toledo, Washington state. 

The bridge was already halfway demolished because a vehicle hit the other half of the bridge in 2021. Now they can take down the entire bridge...









Photo by WSDOT


----------



## brewerfan386

Interstate Sixty Nine construction in the southern suburbs of Indianapolis:

From ITB, on AARoads Forum:

_"Picture update. Photos were taken Sunday, October 2, 2022, unless otherwise noted.









Looking north from the Southport Road overpass in Marion County. At this location, four bridges are being built over Little Buck Creek — two for the mainline, and two for the ramps to and from Southport Road. Three of the four have had their deck pours and are nearing completion. As construction progresses, traffic will be shifted to the new northbound mainline bridge to facilitate the construction of the southbound bridge.









Different perspective showing the four bridges. The northbound mainline splits at this location, with the right lane using a section of the old northbound bridge.









Bridge that will carry the southbound exit ramp to Southport Road; looking north. Plastic sheeting covers the recently poured concrete of the deck.









Slip form paver attachment used to form the concrete parapet walls of a bridge. Using this type of equipment is now preferred, rather than constructing forms, which is time consuming. See how similar equipment is used here.









Southport Road overpass; looking southeast.









Close up of the falsework and bridge deck finisher on the southbound exit ramp bridge over Little Buck Creek.









State Road 37/Southport Road intersection; looking south. Little bit of a squeeze there on the southbound lanes. If you're not paying attention, it's not hard to scrape that barrier wall.









Another view looking north from the Southport Road overpass.









Different look of the southbound exit ramp to Southport and the southbound lanes of SR 37; looking north.









One more looking north from the Southport Road overpass."_

Current maps of the construction area: Maps - I-69 Finish Line


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*I-95 Will Be Widened North of Lumberton *
_
An eight-mile section of Interstate 95 north of Lumberton will be widened, after the N.C. Department of Transportation awarded a $247 million contract this week.

Flatiron Constructors Inc. of Morrisville will widen the interstate from its present four lanes into eight lanes from just south Exit 22 to mile marker 29.

The contractor can begin by Nov. 1, and will have toward the end of 2026 to complete all of the improvements. 

This is one of several NCDOT contracts for widening I-95. Below is a summary organized by mile markers: _















I-95 Will Be Widened North of Lumberton







www.ncdot.gov


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A groundbreaking ceremony is being held at this moment in Barling, Arkansas for the next stage of I-49. Apparently this includes the entire 14 mile / 22 km link east of Fort Smith, across the Arkansas River, from Barling to Alma. 

I haven't seen an official press release yet, but this project was estimated at $ 776 million back in 2018.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580653564720205824


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## cuartango

^^ Do you have the location of that section on a map?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Here's a map:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Gov. Polis *_*and local elected officials celebrate the completion of the Central 70 Project*

On Nov. 30, Governor Polis, the Federal Highway Administration, local officials and the Colorado Department of Transportation celebrated the completion of the 4-acre cover park over a section of the new lowered Interstate 70 between Brighton and Colorado boulevards as well as the completion of major interstate construction as a part of the Central 70 Project. At $1.2 billion, the Central 70 Project is the largest infrastructure project in Colorado's history and is finishing on time and under budget. 

The Central 70 Project spans between Interstate 25 and Chambers Road and is one of Colorado’s economic backbones. It is home to 1,200 businesses, providing the regional connection to Denver International Airport and carrying upwards of 200,000 vehicles each day. Since its August 2018 groundbreaking, the Central 70 Project has reconstructed 10-miles of I-70, added one new Express Lane in each direction, removed the aging 57-year-old viaduct, lowered the interstate, and built a new 4-acre park for the surrounding community._

More: Gov. Polis, Acting Federal Highway Administrator Stephanie Pollack, Denver Mayor Hancock, and local elected officials celebrate the completion of the Central 70 Project


----------



## geogregor




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## ChrisZwolle

A groundbreaking ceremony was held a week ago for the construction of the Corrigan Relief Route in Texas. It is part of future I-69. It's a six mile freeway.

The location of Corrigan: Google Maps


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599873778808414215


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Apparently an arch bridge is on the table for the new I-71/75 Brent Spence Bridge across the Ohio River in Cincinnati.

The official project site doesn't show this yet: NEW I-71/75 BRIDGE | Brent Spence Bridge | Investing in Local Communities, Growing America's Economy


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## cuartango

^^ 5 lanes in one way? that is awesome!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*INDOT opens I-69 between Martinsville and S.R. 144*
_
*The Indiana Department of Transportation was joined by state and local officials and members of the I-69 Finish Line project team this afternoon to mark the shielding and official opening of twelve additional miles of Interstate 69 north of Martinsville. *

Much progress has been made in Morgan and Johnson Counties since opening I-69 through Martinsville just under a year ago. In 2022 crews have completed more than 12 miles of mainline paving, opened new overpasses at Teeters Road and Myra Lane, completed finishing touches at the Henderson Ford Road interchange, and as of today, fully opening the interchange at S.R. 144. 

The I-69 Finish Line project currently sits at just over 60 percent completion heading into 2023, with work in Morgan and Johnson Counties nearing 90 percent. Construction will continue south of Indianapolis, but over the next two years, crews will turn their focus to adding lanes on I-465 and constructing the system-to-system interchange at I-465 and future I-69. The remainder of the corridor is on track to open in late 2024. _









INDOT opens I-69 between Martinsville and S.R. 144 - I-69 Finish Line


Southbound entrance ramp at S.R. 144 interchange opening today INDIANAPOLIS, Ind.— The Indiana Department of Transportation was joined by state and local officials and members of the I-69 Finish Line project team this afternoon to mark the shielding and official opening of twelve additional...




i69finishline.com


----------



## JMBasquiat

8 years and $793 million later, the Jane Byrne Interchange in Chicago is open to traffic 


























8 Years and $793M Later, Jane Byrne Interchange Construction Nearly Complete


After eight years of traffic congestion, cone zones, lane and ramp closures and more, nearly all of the work on one of Chicago’s most anticipated highway construction projects in one of the city’s busiest bottlenecks is nearly complete.




www.nbcchicago.com


----------



## ChrisZwolle

One of the most talked about road projects in the United States is funded!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608509717839503363
*Transformative project to build second bridge and improve interstates forges ahead for late 2023 groundbreaking*
_
Kentucky Gov. Andy Beshear, Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine and U.S. Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell announced today that the Brent Spence Bridge Corridor Project was awarded federal funding grants worth more than $1.6 billion, giving the landmark bridge and corridor project the green light to move toward construction. 

With funding secured, groundbreaking on the project is anticipated for late 2023, with substantial completion slated for 2029.

The Brent Spence Bridge was constructed in the 1960s to carry around 80,000 vehicles a day, but the daily traffic load on Interstate Highways 75 and 71 has reached 160,000 vehicles in recent years. Because I-75 is a key freight corridor stretching from Canada to Florida, the congestion impacts commerce and commuters who travel the corridor in the eastern United States.

Project plans call for the construction of a companion bridge to the west of the existing Brent Spence Bridge, as well as improvements to the current bridge and the roadway network that ties into each river crossing. As a result of robust engagement with local partners, there will be enhanced pedestrian access across I-75 in Cincinnati to reconnect downtown with western neighborhoods and the City of Cincinnati will regain nearly 10 acres to develop in the downtown area. In Kentucky, the project will include a new storm sewer system to reduce flooding and improve local roads, including enhanced pedestrian and bicycle facilities, in the area of the existing and new bridge._


----------



## musiccity

Big news coming out of my city of Birmingham!










*Nearly half a billion dollars in federal funding secured for Northern Beltline project*

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (WBRC) - More than $489 million is secured to push the Northern Beltline project forward.

Friday’s announcement from the Coalition for Regional Transportation (CRT) said the federal funding included $30 million contained in the Fiscal Year 2023 federal spending bill passed by Congress last week.

[...]


The press release states: The 52.5-mile interstate will be built across northern Jefferson County and connect I-59 in northeast Jefferson County to the I-459 interchange near Bessemer. Birmingham is one of the few cities of its size in the U.S. that does not have a complete, connected interstate route to serve its metropolitan area, a problem that the Northern Beltline will correct.

“Between Gardendale and Trussville, it’ll be a much easier way to get there,” said Mayor Hogeland. “We kinda have to go around the world to get there now.”

Source


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## ChrisZwolle

Wow that is a breakthrough. I thought this project wasn't going anywhere if Alabama would have to fund it themselves.


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## musiccity

ChrisZwolle said:


> Wow that is a breakthrough. I thought this project wasn't going anywhere if Alabama would have to fund it themselves.


Alabama definitely doesn't have that kind of money 😅 this would have to be federally funded, so I'm glad ALDOT was able to secure it.

I mentioned this in the Birmingham Development News Thread, but this is a big deal for the northereastern and northwestern suburbs which have always been kind of sad with poverty problems. This will make them much more accessible.


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## sponge_bob

As this is allegedly a $5.2bn project or around $100m a mile the federal contribution is a drop in the ocean. 




musiccity said:


> *Nearly half a billion dollars in federal funding secured for Northern Beltline project*
> 
> BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (WBRC) - More than $489 million is secured to push the Northern Beltline project forward.


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## musiccity

sponge_bob said:


> As this is allegedly a $5.2bn project or around $100m a mile the federal contribution is a drop in the ocean.


I'm not an expert in interstate financing. However, if the majority of the funding has to come from Alabama, then this project is going to struggle.


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## ChrisZwolle

sponge_bob said:


> $100m a mile


Which is an insane figure for basically a rural freeway, I wonder how they came up with that.


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## musiccity

ChrisZwolle said:


> Which is an insane figure for basically a rural freeway, I wonder how they came up with that.


Not completely sure, but Birmingham is in the Appalachian foothills and a lot of ridges criss-cross the city. Based on where the proposed beltline will go, it will require a lot of blasting.


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## cuartango

sponge_bob said:


> As this is allegedly a $5.2bn project or around $100m a mile the federal contribution is a drop in the ocean.


Well, at least they can do the studies and even start some small section of it. Not a drop at all.


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## sponge_bob

They studied it over 20 years ago and settled on the route back then. They even built a bit that goes absolutely nowhere. 









Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.com


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## ChrisZwolle

An overheight vehicle has struck a bridge of I-10 over I-49 near Lafayette, Louisiana. Several beams are destroyed. This looks like it needs at least partial demolition of the I-10 eastbound bridge.




















It causes large-scale congestion in the area.


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## ChrisZwolle

Funding for bridges:

*Biden-Harris Administration Announces $2.1 Billion to Improve Four Nationally Significant Bridges Through the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law’s First Large Bridge Grants *
_
*The First Large Bridge Project Grants, awarded in Fiscal Year 2022 are as follows: *

The* Kentucky Transportation Cabinet* will receive $1.385 billion to rehabilitate and reconfigure the existing Brent Spence Bridge to improve interstate and local traffic flow between the interconnected Kentucky and Ohio communities on either side of the Ohio River. The current bridge is the second worst truck bottleneck in the nation and carries more than $400 billion in freight per year. The project includes construction of a new companion bridge immediately west of the existing bridge to accommodate interstate through traffic on two bridge decks, and complete reconstruction of eight-mile interstate approach corridors both in Ohio and Kentucky, replacing 54 additional bridges. The project will separate I-75 traffic from local traffic, making commutes quicker and improving freight passage along this critical corridor.

The *Golden Gate Bridge, Highway and Transportation District* in California will receive $400 million to replace, retrofit and install critical structural elements on the Golden Gate Bridge to increase resiliency against earthquakes. The Golden Gate Bridge is vital to an estimated 37 million vehicles crossing the bridge per year, including 555,000 freight trucks, as well as waterborne commerce through the Golden Gate Strait connected to the Port of Oakland. The improvements will ensure the structural integrity of a vital transportation link between San Francisco and Marin County. This bridge allows for the movement of people and freight along the California Coast and is a critical link for bicyclist and pedestrian traffic in the region.

The *Connecticut Department of Transportation *will receive $158 million to rehabilitate the northbound structure of the Gold Star Memorial Bridge, which is part of the Interstate 95 corridor over the Thames River between New London and Groton, Connecticut. The bridge carries five lanes of traffic and 42,600 vehicles per day and is a vital connection on the I-95 corridor for people and goods traveling between New York and New England. The rehabilitation will address structural repairs, increase load capacity and eliminate a load restriction for overweight vehicles. Additionally, the project will add a new multi-use path to foster bike-sharing and pedestrian access to transit services.

The *City of Chicago, Illinois,* will receive $144 million to rehabilitate four bridges over the Calumet River on the Southside of Chicago. The Calumet River connects Lake Michigan with the Lake Calumet Port District which is further connected to the Illinois River providing access to the Gulf of Mexico. Each bridge lifts an average of 5,000 times per year, providing continuous and safe access for marine traffic to and from the Port and surrounding industry. Rehabilitating these bridges ensures that communities on either side of the river remain connected and the bridges continue to function to allow barge and ship traffic to traverse to the Illinois International Port and beyond. The project will eliminate a load restriction and truck detours. It will also add dedicated bike lanes and improved sidewalks to support community connections._






Biden-Harris Administration Announces $2.1 Billion to Improve Four Nationally Significant Bridges Through the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law’s First Large Bridge Grants | US Department of Transportation


$2.1 Billion in Fiscal Year 2022 Large Bridge Project Grants will make critical improvements to bridges that are a vital link for local residents, communities and economies




www.transportation.gov


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## sponge_bob

ChrisZwolle said:


> Funding for bridges:


The Ohio bridge is the I-75 replacement. Another Ohio bridge further west, this time for the I-69, is equally badly needed but unfunded at this time.









I-69 Ohio River Crossing - Completing the Connection


The Indiana Department of Transportation and the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet are committed to improving the I-69 corridor by constructing the I-69 Ohio River Crossing (I-69 ORX).




i69ohiorivercrossing.com


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## cuartango

sponge_bob said:


> The Ohio bridge is the I-75 replacement. Another Ohio bridge further west, this time for the I-69, is equally badly needed but unfunded at this time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I-69 Ohio River Crossing - Completing the Connection
> 
> 
> The Indiana Department of Transportation and the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet are committed to improving the I-69 corridor by constructing the I-69 Ohio River Crossing (I-69 ORX).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i69ohiorivercrossing.com


Why not doing 6 lane instead of 4 lane for the bridge section?


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## sponge_bob

Not as busy I suppose. The I-69 is an ancient bridge on a US road at the present crossing, an I-69 gap in other words.

The I-69 will not go further south than where it meets the I-155 in Kentucky IMO, apart from some bits in Texas. Finishing it would require a Mississippi bridge in nowheresville Arkansas somewhere.


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