# Public housing for poor people in your country?



## xrtn2

Brazil






































Padron de vivendas sociales en Brasil


----------



## the spliff fairy

http://img.thesun.co.uk


----------



## xrtn2

^^

???


----------



## AmoreUrbs

xrtn2 said:


> ^^
> 
> ???


Chavs  .. Better to avoid them when in Albion


----------



## dollhouse123

clean and tidy


----------



## SAS 16

xrtn2 said:


> Brazil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Padron de vivendas sociales en Brasil


Looks like they filmed city of god in that place


----------



## Jonesy55

I'm pretty sure there are poorer Brazilians living in far worse housing than those shown.


----------



## xrtn2

^^

Yes.

But these houses are part of "Minha casa Minha Vida" program, 2,5 millions houses will be built until 2014.


----------



## gabrielbabb

^^ maybe what you meant with this was public housing for poor people, not just houses for poor people, in that case Brazil is full of auto contructed poor zones, not public housing which is having a boom in Brazil nowaadays.


----------



## poshbakerloo

England's council houses...


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

Jonesy55 said:


> I'm pretty sure there are poorer Brazilians living in far worse housing than those shown.


I guess even in England there are worse housing than that. The thread is focusing on public housing for poor people.

And we say "public", because the government is building them, but they're actually owned by the people who will live there.


----------



## El_Greco

Why are those Brazilian buildings in the middle of nowhere?


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

^^
It's not in the middle of nowhere, but on the outskirsts of the urban areas, which are quite compact compared to the Americans and even Europeans.


----------



## El_Greco

Yuri S Andrade said:


> ^^
> It's not in the middle of nowhere, but on the outskirsts of the urban areas, which are quite compact compared to the Americans and even Europeans.


Why on the outskirts? Sounds to me like its the case of moving away the problem (ie the poor) and trying to forget about it. Surely mixed-communities would be a much better idea than a ghetto?


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

^^
Because the inner areas are already built up?... 

And it's not ghetto, but public housing focusing on poor families. Nothing to do with North American and European commieblocks.

Also, why are you assuming the government, which is giving the houses to the poor, somehow hate them? If Brazilians were so into social cleasing, there wouldnt be slums right next to Rio de Janeiros prime real estate.


----------



## El_Greco

Yuri S Andrade said:


> public housing focusing on poor families.


A ghetto.


----------



## xrtn2

El_Greco said:


> A ghetto.


Better than live in slums.


----------



## El_Greco

xrtn2 said:


> Better than live in slums.


How do you know this wont become a slum? You don't tackle poverty and inequality by shipping the poor off to the outskirts. You build mixed communities. I'm sure it's possible to find space in the inner areas.


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

^^
And everybody could live happily in a flat in Knightsbridge... Im sorry, but lets go back to the real world, shall we? Thats public housing. The government is giving away all this money. On the top of it, do you think it would be wise to spend millions to buy prime land to build public houses on it? And as if inner city projects proved to be a success...


----------



## 009

I think most people would prefer to stay in their favelas, rather than get shipped off to a dog house in the middle of nowhere


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

009 said:


> I think most people would prefer to stay in their favelas, rather than get shipped off to a dog house in the middle of nowhere


You're basing your opinion on what? Are you familiar with Brazilian public housing programs? No need to answer as I saw your trolling in another thread. 

BTW, people are not forced to get a house. Those are social programs available for people who might or not apply into it. As they're for free or heavily subsidized, one can imagine there are people out there interested in get a brand new home.


----------



## 009

Yuri S Andrade said:


> You're basing your opinion on what? Are you familiar with Brazilian public housing programs? No need to answer as I saw your trolling in another thread.
> 
> BTW, people are not forced to get a house. Those are social programs available for people who might or not apply into it. As they're for free or heavily subsidized, one can imagine there are people out there interested in get a brand new home.



No need to get upset, btw you must be a troll comparing Londrina to London and Tokyo lol


----------



## El_Greco

Yuri S Andrade said:


> ^^
> And everybody could live happily in a flat in Knightsbridge... Im sorry, but lets go back to the real world, shall we? Thats public housing. The government is giving away all this money. On the top of it, do you think it would be wise to spend millions to buy prime land to build public houses on it? And as if inner city projects proved to be a success...


Even Knightsbridge has social housing. But that's unimportant. You completely missed my point (deliberately?). I wasn't suggesting building social housing in the middle of the city (and thus creating another ghetto), I was suggesting creating mixed-communities - ie every new development should contain some social housing. Building new buildings for the poor is all well and good, but this is clearly just an attempt to ship off the poor outside the city and forget them. A ghetto that will become a slum.


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

El_Greco said:


> but this is clearly just an attempt to ship off the poor outside the city and forget them. A ghetto that will become a slum.


It's amazing how people come with such conclusions without having any info on the issue. Do you read Portuguese? Do you know Brazilian social programs? Do you know people involved with them, their ideology? So how come you feel ready to make such scandalous statements?

Brazilians never worried about social cleasing. There's not even a tiny evidence of it, on contrary. Slums always grew without being stopped and there was never a comprehensive attempt to remove them. Social housing exists to face the housing deficit which still exists in Brazil. There's no direct link with slums nor with a urge to remove them.


----------



## El_Greco

In other words there's no appetite to tackle country's problems of inequality. Why ship them off to the outskirts if not to move the problem away? This is exactly how slums are created. Look at Europe - after WWII loads of such areas were created on the outskirts to house the poor and these places soon turned into slums.


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

?!?!?!? It's universal knowledge no country in the world advanced more than Brazil in terms of inequality reduction in the past decade. And it was not accidental, but due policies specifically designed to tackle this issue.

About the location, you keep refusing to understand. They build homes where there's space (non-built-up land contiguous to the urban area) and where it's cheaper as money doesn't grow in trees. And don't worry: there are social housing built on the top of existent slums, specially in the big cities. There are many examples in Manaus for instance.

P.S. You completely missed the slums problem. Today, when Brazilian population grows less than 1% a year, it's hard to imagine back in the 1960's, the 1970's, ALL Brazilian major urban areas were growing between 60% and 100% per decade (!!!). With such growth pressure, the slum problem was inevitable. As in Brazil, every initiative from the government takes ages, the country still didn't get rid of slums. And again, that never was a priority in any case.


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

I guess it's important to define slum here: in Brazil, it means informal settlement. It's people building houses (shacks) without approval, on lands owned by other people or the government. That's why it's not that simple to build public housing on the top of them. 

In any case, outside big cities, slums is not that common. In mid-sized cities in Central-South Brazil, they are unheard of. All the urban area is formal, and public housing must be built on non-built up land.


----------



## 009

Yuri S Andrade said:


> ?!?!?!? It's universal knowledge no country in the world advanced more than Brazil in terms of inequality reduction in the past decade.


Try not to lie so much and people will take you more seriously


----------



## Brazilian001

Yuri S Andrade, do not feed the troll


----------



## 009

According to the GINI index which is the standard international measure of inequality, Brazil had only the 6th biggest improvement in Latin America alone between 2000-2010, and was last among the big 3 LatAm economies, behind Mexico and Argentina.


----------



## Brazilian001

Lo que hace la envidia en las personas... :|


----------



## isaidso

*Toronto*

Regents Park is one of the largest public housing estates in Toronto. It is being demolished and rebuilt as a mixed income neighbourhood. Some units are subsidized (public housing for the poor) and some are at market rate, but they're indistinguishable from one another. The hope is that mixing the poor with the middle class and giving people pride in where they live will prevent it from becoming a poor ghetto.

The first photo shows what it used to look like while the rest show what's replacing it. About half of Regents Park is now complete. They just finished the new grocery store and recreation centre.









Courtesy of Jasonzed









Courtesy of Jasonzed









Courtesy of Jasonzed









Courtesy of Jasonzed









Courtesy of thegridto


----------



## 009

T dot representin


----------



## KeanoManu

The idea for this thread are interesting. Too bad it had to become another "Brazil is best in the world!!!"-thread. 

I'd like to see more photos and information about projects that are aimed at the poorer parts of society in developing countries on this forum. I find Africa especially interesting on this area. Unfortunately, 99% of projects and photos in the african sub-forum are about high-end/luxury development. They're nice, some of them really nice, but honestly not so interesting. It's much more interesting what's being done to raise the average living standard for the poor in Luanda, Lagos and Accra for example.

---

I concur in the opinion that building whole areas only consisting of public housing are a bad idea. In Sweden we have a (nationally) well-known project called "The million programme" which aimed at building one million housing units during the 60's (sounds similar to the Brazilian goal of 2.5 million). It weren't just for the poor but with time almost all of these areas has become "ghettos". Living in a million programme apartment is synonym to living in the poor parts of town. A good example on how to NOT build a city.


----------



## 009

KeanoManu said:


> The idea for this thread are interesting. Too bad it had to become another "Brazil is best in the world!!!"-thread.
> 
> I'd like to see more photos and information about projects that are aimed at the poorer parts of society in developing countries on this forum. I find Africa especially interesting on this area. Unfortunately, 99% of projects and photos in the african sub-forum are about high-end/luxury development. They're nice, some of them really nice, but honestly not so interesting. It's much more interesting what's being done to raise the average living standard for the poor in Luanda, Lagos and Accra for example.
> 
> ---
> 
> I concur in the opinion that building whole areas only consisting of public housing are a bad idea. In Sweden we have a (nationally) well-known project called "The million programme" which aimed at building one million housing units during the 60's (sounds similar to the Brazilian goal of 2.5 million). It weren't just for the poor but with time almost all of these areas has become "ghettos". Living in a million programme apartment is synonym to living in the poor parts of town. A good example on how to NOT build a city.



That's only a few Brazilian internet trolls who have never been outside of Brazil who behave that way. The ones I have met internationally have been much more realistic about their country, were more honest in general, and far less delusional.


About your point regarding public housing in the middle of nowehre, I strongly agree. What a terrible way to live. I even find rich suburbs in the middle of nowhere terribly boring. Now Imagine being trapped in the middle of nowhere in a little dog house, with no car and nowhere to walk around.

Also, segregated neighborhoods for poor people always end up as ghettos, they need to be integrated into society so they have a chance to advance, and a higher quality of life


----------



## xrtn2

KeanoManu said:


> The idea for this thread are interesting. *Too bad it had to become another* *"Brazil is best in the world!!!"-thread. *


Why did you say that?


----------



## Brazilian001

009 said:


> That's only a few Brazilian internet trolls who have never been outside of Brazil who behave that way. The ones I have met internationally have been much more realistic about their country, were more honest in general, and far less delusional.


Envy, I just love it :cheers:


----------



## xrtn2

KeanoManu said:


> I concur in the opinion that building whole areas only consisting of public housing are a bad idea. In Sweden we have a (nationally) well-known project called "The million programme" which aimed at building one million housing units during the 60's (sounds similar to the Brazilian goal of 2.5 million). It weren't just for the poor but with time almost all of these areas has become "ghettos". Living in a million programme apartment is synonym to living in the poor parts of town. A good example on how to NOT build a city.


There is a worst place than a ghetto....a slum!!!

This is a first-world problem, Brazil isnt first-world country...thousand people have any basic things like clean water, electricity, paved road, *a good house *etc.

Now...tell us your proposal for where those 1 million people will life?


----------



## Jonesy55

Yuri S Andrade said:


> I guess even in England there are worse housing than that. The thread is focusing on public housing for poor people.


Yes, no doubt. I think the thread title was changed, or maybe I just misread it. I'm pretty sure it originally said 'Housing for the poor', in which case I was a little sceptical that these were the worst/poorest houses in Brazil.

But if it's about new public housing developments then yes, great, I'm sure these will be a big improvement in conditions for many people.

Though the caveat that others have mentioned about the potential for problems in making all housing in a particular district 'low-income' housing is relevant I think.

The Council Housing estates that were built in the UK after WWII were not originally simply for low income households, many middle income people lived there too, but policy changes in the 1970s that gave priority to the people with lowest income and most problems led to decline in many of those areas.

The Brazilian method of making them owner-occupied from the outset rather than owned by the state may mitigate that potential for problems though, let's hope so.


----------



## KeanoManu

xrtn2 said:


> Why did you say that?


Because it's true. If someone says something that's not in Brazils favour on this forum there will quickly be a brigade of posters coming to it's rescue and talk about how wrong that person is and how great Brazil is.

brazilian001 in the post below yours sort of proved that point.



xrtn2 said:


> There is a worst place than a ghetto....a slum!!!
> 
> This is a first-world problem, Brazil isnt first-world country...thousand people have any basic things like clean water, electricity, paved road, *a good house *etc.
> 
> Now...tell us your proposal for where those 1 million people will life?


What I, and others, have said about the development in question is that it's not a good idea to build area aimed at only one class/part of society.

I personally think it's good that Brazil builds new homes for poorer people, it shows that they want to do something for that parts of society. If only they would build some middle class houses and some upper class houses with all the services those parts of society want in the same neighbourhood it would be great. Don't keep them seperate, mix them.

So keep building homes for the people who are now living in slums. But spread them out and build them where other parts of society are also present.


----------



## Adde

To be fair, not all of the areas built in Sweden during the "Million Program" are ghettos today. In fact, non are as far as I know. Some of them have proven to be problematic, with comparably high levels of segregation, crime and unemployment. But others are perfectly fine suburban neighbourhoods (though certainly lacking in urban qualities). Generally, the farther from the city, the more social issues.


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

KeanoManu said:


> The idea for this thread are interesting. Too bad it had to become another "Brazil is best in the world!!!"-thread.


Tell me how did that happen? Otherwise you're just trolling and I'll be reporting you.

xrtn2 opened a thread with pics and people start to make baseless assumptions which were corrected. Period. No one said Brazilian social housing was good or bad. I, for one, have no opinion about it.




Jonesy55 said:


> The Brazilian method of making them owner-occupied from the outset rather than owned by the state may mitigate that potential for problems though, let's hope so.


Exactly. To me that's the key. Even though Brazil is much poorer, those social housing projects tend to improve as time goes by, while in wealthier countries, it usually goes on the opposite direction.

Brazil, although very socialist in many areas, is completely capitalism when it comes to real estate. The State don't own any house nor impose any sort of control on prices. That's a completely strange concept down here.




KeanoManu said:


> What I, and others, have said about the development in question is that it's not a good idea to build area aimed at only one class/part of society.


Wrong. People were stating Brazilian left-wing government was deliberately promoting a social apartheid when there is no evidence to back it.

But let me explain how that works. A person probably liked the project (I don't) and thought: "How come on Earth this shithole called Brazil is able to organise such thing? Now, I have to find some hidden agenda to bash them."


----------



## KeanoManu

Yuri S Andrade said:


> Tell me how did that happen? Otherwise you're just trolling and I'll be reporting you.


I don't know or care how it happened. I just stated the fact. One possible reason is excessive nationalism, somthing this forum has way too much of.



Yuri S Andrade said:


> Wrong. People were stating Brazilian left-wing government was deliberately promoting a social apartheid when there is no evidence to back it.
> 
> But let me explain how that works. A person probably liked the project (I don't) and thought: "How come on Earth this shithole called Brazil is able to organise such thing? Now, I have to find some hidden agenda to bash them."


No one is deliberately bashing Brazil. And most people probably don't care who's in charge in Brazil. It were never part of the conversation.

Can we move on now?


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

KeanoManu said:


> I don't know or care how it happened. I just stated the fact. One possible reason is excessive nationalism, somthing this forum has way too much of.


I see. You didn't even bother to read the posts and decided to jump to conclusions (quite racist ones: "Brazilians do this and that"). That's the easiest way to derail a thread.




KeanoManu said:


> No one is deliberately bashing Brazil. And most people probably don't care who's in charge in Brazil. It were never part of the conversation.


People were bashing Brazil. You were bashing Brazilians. If people don't care about who is in charge here, how can they possibly know the government's agenda?




KeanoManu said:


> Can we move on now?


Sure, as soon as you stop attacking forumers based on what you imagined they've said.


----------



## Svartmetall

Lets try to focus on the actual subject rather than endless comparisons of "my public housing is better than yours". 

Just showcase how your country provides low income housing.


----------



## 009

Yuri S Andrade said:


> I see. You didn't even bother to read the posts and decided to jump to conclusions (quite racist ones: "Brazilians do this and that"). That's the easiest way to derail a thread.
> 
> People were bashing Brazil. You were bashing Brazilians. If people don't care about who is in charge here, how can they possibly know the government's agenda?
> 
> Sure, as soon as you stop attacking forumers based on what you imagined they've said.


Brazil isn't a race

Nobody was bashing Brazil, people were posting facts and opinions regarding the housing development posted

Keano wasn't personally attacking people, unlike you


----------



## Brazilian001

KeanoManu said:


> brazilian001 in the post below yours sort of proved that point.


I have never said that Brazil is perfect and that it doesn't have problems, on the contrary. The fact is that unfortunately there are some trolls in this forum that are probably ashamed of their own country and insists on denying their origin (I just don't know why, this does not make any sense at all) and they just attack other countries for nothing. So I think you can understand the post of mine you mentioned.


----------



## Brazilian001

Svartmetall said:


> Lets try to focus on the actual subject rather than endless comparisons of "my public housing is better than yours".
> 
> Just showcase how your country provides low income housing.


Exactly, let's move on and focus on the actual subject.


----------



## isaidso

KeanoManu said:


> Living in a million programme apartment is synonym to living in the poor parts of town. A good example on how to NOT build a city.


What about experimenting with mixed income neighbourhoods like the Regents Park project in Toronto? The jury is still out on whether it will be a success, but it stands to reason that if you populate an area or building only with poor people, you'll end up with a ghetto. If you can convince the middle class to buy market rate condos that are right next door to subsidized units that look identical, you're right off the bat in a better position to succeed long term.

Potential purchasers of the market rate units are lured by employing good design, extremely competitive pricing, and building lots of amenities close by like grocery stores, libraries, and recreation centres. It seems to be working so far.


----------



## Svartmetall

isaidso said:


> What about experimenting with mixed income neighbourhoods like the Regents Park project in Toronto? The jury is still out on whether it will be a success, but it stands to reason that if you populate an area or building only with poor people, you'll end up with a ghetto. If you can convince the middle class to buy market rate condos that are right next door to subsidized units that look identical, you're right off the bat in a better position to succeed long term.
> 
> Potential purchasers of the market rate units are lured by employing good design, extremely competitive pricing, and building lots of amenities close by like grocery stores, libraries, and recreation centres. It seems to be working so far.


Read Adde's reply. Not all million programme apartment areas are "poor". Amenities are certainly nearby in nearly all million programme suburbs - moreso than sprawlburbia for sure, and nearly all suburbs have a large centrum and a metro connection (at least in Stockholm). Even Husby where the "riots" were recently has one of the best swimming pools in Stockholm (for example) as well as a lot of investment. These areas actually tend to have more and newer facilities than older, more established and wealthy areas of the city in many ways.

New developments, however, are indeed mixed income and you see SB (Svenska Bostäder) Stockholm county council owned apartments even in the fanciest areas of the city like Hammarby Sjöstad that have been newly built.


----------



## El_Greco

Svartmetall said:


> Read Adde's reply. Not all million programme apartment areas are "poor".


Most are. And that's the problem, you don't solve inequality by dumping the poor in the middle of nowhere. The government is simply moving the problem where it can forget about it while claiming its doing something good. If they were serious about solving inequality they'd start by experimenting with mixed neighbourhoods.


----------



## Svartmetall

El_Greco said:


> Most are. And that's the problem, you don't solve inequality by dumping the poor in the middle of nowhere. The government is simply moving the problem where it can forget about it while claiming its doing something good. If they were serious about solving inequality they'd start by experimenting with mixed neighbourhoods.


You didn't read my full reply, did you? The mistakes of the 50's-70's are widely acknowledged and now there are mixed developments occurring with low income housing in all new areas including Annedal, Lindhagen, Lilneholmen and, as I said, in Hammarby Sjöstad.

As a caveat, I lived in one of the "worst" million programme suburbs in Sweden for well over a year. They are not bad at all as areas. Life was still convenient for myself and my wife.


----------



## El_Greco

I was talking about Brazil.


----------



## Svartmetall

^^ Sorry, you replied to me and I was addressing the post about the Swedish Million Programme suburbs, not Brazil.


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

El_Greco said:


> Most are. And that's the problem, you don't solve inequality by dumping the poor in the middle of nowhere. The government is simply moving the problem where it can forget about it while claiming its doing something good. If they were serious about solving inequality they'd start by experimenting with mixed neighbourhoods.


Greco, could you answer me this question? Have you seen a Brazilian city on Google Earth? Apparently those homes on the pics are in Campo Grande (Mato Grosso do Sul capital). Could you suggest us where the government should build those homes?

You don't know Brazilian government's motivations as you can even name the country's president. To me it's quite bizarre to see you're "bold" enough to make such strong statements about a subject you have no clue about it.

You can hate as much as you want, but people who are getting their homes for free are pretty happy with the deal, otherwise they wouldn't apply to such programs.


----------



## El_Greco

Yuri S Andrade said:


> Greco, could you answer me this question? Have you seen a Brazilian city on Google Earth? Apparently those homes on the pics are in Campo Grande (Mato Grosso do Sul capital). Could you suggest us where the government should build those homes?
> 
> You don't know Brazilian government's motivations as you can even name the country's president. To me it's quite bizarre to see you're "bold" enough to make such strong statements about a subject you have no clue about it.


Don't patronise me. I know Brazil pretty well. However you keep missing my point. This isn't about where to build, it's about the nature of these areas. Dumping the poor with the poor outside the city is creating a ghetto regardless of how good your intentions are. There's plenty of construction going on in Brazil, so what I've been suggesting was giving a certain percentage of units in these swanky new condos to social housing, thus creating mixed communities.


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

^^
There is NO evidence it will turn into a ghetto, au contraire: similar projects have been tested in Brazil since the 1970's and they always turn into some mainstream low-middle-class/middle-class neighbourhood. Most of Londrina's North Zone was once a project and now looks a regular neighbourhood, with many pleasant areas. You can see by yourself on Google Maps. The fact people own the houses, in my opinion, prevents the decay.

You're also missing something very important: the government don't make money. They take from the people. The society cannot afford any social experiment as you're proposing. They're completely pointless and expensive. Brazil is a democracy, with a free real estate sector, and such impositions on society would not be tolerated.


----------



## KeanoManu

Let's show some pictures from around the world instead.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

I'd suggest that social housing isn't necessarily for the poor, considering how expensive the housing market is these days in most developed countries. In France the median net income per household is around 2400 euro / month, and from my experience (not huge admittedly) with those money it's impossible to get an apartment in Paris. Actually now that I think of it I think it is impossible to buy even a studio. You could get something in a public housing complex in a remote suburb, though.


----------



## Ramdona

Why are those Brazilian buildings in the middle of nowhere?


----------



## Jonesy55

Typical new build social housing around here would look something like this.










Two of these houses are being sold on the open market, the other two are available on a part buy-part rent basis to people meeting eligibility criteria as described in the link below.

http://www.severnsidehousing.co.uk/main.cfm?type=SHAREDOWNERSHIP1&objectid=2863

The main pillar of government help for housing in the UK is not actually the state building homes for the poor but instead the state giving cash as housing benefit to people on lower incomes which they can then use to cover housing costs either in the subsidised sector like this example if they qualify or if not in the private sector.


----------



## El_Greco

Yuri S Andrade said:


> The society cannot afford any social experiment as you're proposing. They're completely pointless and expensive. Brazil is a democracy, with a free real estate sector, and such impositions on society would not be tolerated.


Seems to work fine in Europe. You can't claim Brazil is serious about solving its problems if it puts capitalism before the well-being and fairness of the society.


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

^^
That's an ideological opinion only. We cannot take it as a fact.

P.S. Brazilian government takes form society 40% of GDP in taxes. It's indeed a capitalism heaven...


----------



## Jonesy55

Ok, let's focus on the housing itself shall we. :yes:


----------



## Svartmetall

Everyone knows how the horrible million programme suburbs look in Stockholm, so here are a few pictures of new districts which consist of a mixture of private and publicly owned housing. 

Annedal





Here is a link to the apartments under construction in this area as publicly owned apartments:
http://www.svenskabostader.se/sv/Vi-bygger/Nybyggnation/Pagaende/Kvarteret-Tappen/

Here are a few more publicly owned apartments under construction in mixed areas now:

Central city in a rather fancy district under construction now:
http://www.svenskabostader.se/sv/Vi-bygger/Nybyggnation/Pagaende/Soderasen-Norra-Djurgardsstaden/

Liljeholmen - a rather up and coming area with one of Stockholm's tallest residential buildings under construction there:

http://www.svenskabostader.se/sv/Vi-bygger/Nybyggnation/Kommande/Nybohovsbacken-Liljeholmen/

(And a few of my pictures from that area)





New builds on Lila Essingen - a very popular island. I don't have any photos uploaded though at the moment:
http://www.svenskabostader.se/sv/Vi-bygger/Nybyggnation/Kommande/Primus-Lilla-Esssingen/


----------



## Eric Offereins

Here is some real crappy stuff in the Afrikaanderwijk quarter in Rotterdam. There is a lot of redevelopment going on here to improve the quality of living here, like the red block in pic 10 (left)
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=897278&page=18 (dutch)


Topaas said:


> Nog van 17-07:
> 
> 1.
> 
> 
> 2.
> 
> 
> 3.
> 
> 
> 4.
> 
> 
> 5.
> 
> 
> 6.
> 
> 
> 7.
> 
> 
> 8.
> 
> 
> 9.
> 
> 
> 10.


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

The newest public housing project in *Londrina*. It's said to be the biggest one of Lula/Dilma's _Minha Casa, Minha Vida_ (My house, my life) program. 5,000 units (lowrises and detached houses):









_Wilson Vieira_

As you've discussed, it's on the outskirts of the city (you can see the wheat), but contiguous to the urban area.


----------



## VITORIA MAN

examples from spain
















source: plazaola.es


----------



## Manila-X

I already made a thread on this years back,

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=247127&highlight=public+housing+tenements


----------



## isaidso

Jonesy55 said:


> Typical new build social housing around here would look something like this.


That looks quite decent. What's behind the lack of greenery though? I'm assuming scarcity of land dictates no room for trees and landscaping? It wouldn't kill them to add another 10 feet in front of these houses for green space though. I also notice British houses typically build a brick/stone wall in the front. It gives everything a bleaker look, imo. What's the reason for all the walls? :dunno:


----------



## KeanoManu

isaidso said:


> That looks quite decent. What's behind the lack of greenery though? I'm assuming scarcity of land dictates no room for trees and landscaping? It wouldn't kill them to add another 10 feet in front of these houses for green space though. I also notice British houses typically build a brick/stone wall in the front. It gives everything a bleaker look, imo. What's the reason for all the walls? :dunno:


Nooooo, European cities need to move their buildings closer to the street and have less greenery in-between them.


----------



## isaidso

KeanoManu said:


> Nooooo, European cities need to move their buildings closer to the street and have less greenery in-between them.


And less greenery is beneficial why? Even in downtown cores with a strong street apron, attempts are made to add greenery.


----------



## KeanoManu

isaidso said:


> And less greenery is beneficial why? Even in downtown cores with a strong street apron, attempts are made to add greenery.


Greenery isn't necessary bad. But adding more space between a building and the street is.


----------



## 009

isaidso said:


> That looks quite decent. What's behind the lack of greenery though? I'm assuming scarcity of land dictates no room for trees and landscaping? It wouldn't kill them to add another 10 feet in front of these houses for green space though. I also notice British houses typically build a brick/stone wall in the front. It gives everything a bleaker look, imo. What's the reason for all the walls? :dunno:


walls are for privacy


----------



## Treka

KeanoManu said:


> Greenery isn't necessary bad. But adding more space between a building and the street is.


Well it depends, i don't think it would hurt to allow them a few feet of space in between the home and road to plant something,but that's just my opinion.


----------



## Sweet Zombie Jesus

You can easily have a lot of greenery on that size of building setback, but in new builds there isn't much as I imagine they'll leave the gardening to the inhabitants.

As for public housing in Glasgow, we tend to be well known for bleak peripheral housing estates and tower blocks, but there's been quite a few good quality projects going on in inner city areas recently. Not exactly beautiful architecture but much better than the previous generation of concrete boxes.

Anderston:


















Duke Street:









Govan:



























Finnieston:


----------



## alex_lg

*Social Housing in Chile*
2010's decade


----------



## Robi_damian

Treka said:


> Well it depends, i don't think it would hurt to allow them a few feet of space in between the home and road to plant something,but that's just my opinion.


But this is social housing, after all. With land prices what they are in England, I am quite shocked semi-detached social housing still exists.


----------



## Galro

There is very little public housing in Norway. Around 97% of Norways building stock is in private hands. I guess the specific policies may vary from municipality to municipality, but in general we tend to rather give housing subsidizes and buying up single apartments in already built buildings. But a large parts of the housing stock from the '70s and '60s does have a certain public housing look though so the charm of public housing isn't completely gone here either.

A block where Oslo municipality owns some public apartments:








http://dittoslo.no/indre-by/nyheter-indre-by/600-nye-boliger-til-vanskeligstilte-1.8083176


----------



## VITORIA MAN

comparing to the norwegian model , i prefer the public housing in sapin


----------



## xrtn2

^^

Govt Housing in Brazil


----------



## AlexLiS_VL

*Russia, Vladivostok*

Here is common Russian (Vladivostok) apartment house. Built in 1990s.
Average price of an apartment is about 4000000 rubles ($110000)
Interesting that here you can meet both poor people and peoples with good salaries.

















And here is quite new area (~5.3 sq. kilometers). 
Building started in 2010 and still under construction. 
Apartments in these houses are free for military men. Price is about $110000 too.

















Of course there much commieblocks and houses that even older (if someone interested I can make photos). 
But now govt has plans to demolish old houses and construct new social buildings.


----------



## WingWing

Public housing in new area Singapore (sengkang and punggol)

A 4 room flat would cost 2xxk USD





























Also provided by Light Rapid Transit









And Mass Rapid Transit 









And all apartments come with Multi Storey Carpark or basement carpark


----------



## WingWing

More in different are of public housing in singapore


----------



## BriedisUnIzlietne

Various social housing projects in Rīga:


----------



## xrtn2

Various social housing projects in Brazil


U por PAC 2, no Flickr


----------



## Buccinasco Town

I live in Brazil, but I'm not Brazilian, so I can give a kind of third part opinion on this issue.

"Minha casa minha vida" social housing program, which means "my home, my life" has been renamed by detractors "minha casa, minha divida" which means "my home, my debts" because these developments are sold to low income people, not just given for free or rented. 

This in my opinion gives some advantages and some disadvantages. 

From the good side, selling instead of renting creates a stronger link between people living in the houses/apartments and the neighborhood: people treat better and respect what they own. 

In the same time the government can build many more developments with less money, because the projects are finally financed by banks that give loans to the buyers. 

On the negative side, these projects are often build without a real surrounding or inside infrastructure in a country where public transport, health care and education system are disastrous and this can finally create just more modern ghettos than the usual favelas. 

Another big problem is the very low quality (poor design, low cost materials and bad finishing) of these projects, which makes them very low-end locations and probably will provoke degradation in the future.


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

^^
As I've pointed out several times here in this thread, Brazil has lots of experience in social projects as they've been executed since the 1960's when Brazilian urban areas were growing as much as 8%, 10% a year. Very challenging times. Most of them eventually became regular low-middle class/middle class neighbourhoods as the dwellers improved their homes little by little.

There is nothing suggesting those new projects will become ghettos in future, au contraire: history shows they tend to move upwards.


----------



## binhai

Ridiculously suburban, isolated, low density projects.


----------



## techniques1200s

Some of the public housing in the southeast corner of San Francisco:

*The Sunnydale projects:*























































*The Potrero Hill projects:*























































*various projects in Hunters Point:*













































































































The pics are a little old, but little has changed in these shots since they were taken. 

SF's projects are among the most violent parts of the city. Case in point: the projects pictured here were the site of 7 shootings in the past 4 days, leaving 4 people dead and 6 injured. They're also quite run down, to the point that the US dept. of Housing and Urban Development rated many of them as among the worst in the nation back in 2007. Of course the city tends to ignore or be slow to react to the worst problems (mold, broken appliances, lack of smoke detectors, backed up sewers, broken lights, vacant units, squatters, bullet holes, etc) yet still manages to repaint them regularly so they look nicer from a distance. The SF Housing Authority is notoriously bad at what it does, and has been mismanaged and full of corruption for decades.

There are some decent projects in SF, but the vast majority of them are somewhere on the spectrum of "this is not a good place to live".


----------



## KeanoManu

Wow, that's even worse than the public housing in developing countries that has been shown recently.

I still wonder why public housing always has to be worthless apartment-in-a-park or suburban detached houses everywhere? Is it really so much more expensive to build buildings with the same cheap materials but in a quartered city block design?

And while land closer to the more central parts of a city are more expensive, wouldn't it be cheaper in terms of human life and lower crime rates to build these projects somewhere else than in the middle of nowhere? It doesn't have to be right next to the most central part of town but in the outskirts of downtown at least.

Best would of course be to mix it with other types of developments. Putting all the poor people together without anything else in the vicinity... Are someone surprised that crime thrives there?

Thanks for the pictures everyone though. Interesting (and sad) thread.


----------



## KeanoManu

EDIT: Double post.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

@techniques: even looking only at the architecture, it has a very "open air penitentiary" feel about it. No wonder it degenerated so badly.


----------



## castermaild55

in case of tokyo
it s not very poor though


----------



## techniques1200s

KeanoManu said:


> Wow, that's even worse than the public housing in developing countries that has been shown recently.
> 
> I still wonder why public housing always has to be worthless apartment-in-a-park or suburban detached houses everywhere? Is it really so much more expensive to build buildings with the same cheap materials but in a quartered city block design?
> 
> And while land closer to the more central parts of a city are more expensive, wouldn't it be cheaper in terms of human life and lower crime rates to build these projects somewhere else than in the middle of nowhere? It doesn't have to be right next to the most central part of town but in the outskirts of downtown at least.


The thing about many of SF's projects, including almost all of the buildings in the photos I posted, is that they were originally built during World War II, as temporary housing for Naval Shipyard workers. They weren't meant to be public housing, or to be around for 70+ years, but there they are. The decades of neglect sure didn't help their condition, or the situation of their residents either.

There are projects on the outskirts of downtown though (in the Fillmore district), that are much more densely built, and they have the exact same crime problems as these projects do, though the area surrounding them has been heavily gentrified over the past decade, so those projects aren't nearly as violent as they used to be. 

There are other projects on the outskirts of downtown such as in Chinatown and in SOMA. The former used to have serious crime problems in the 1970s, but are pretty safe now, while those in the latter seem to mostly be senior housing, and crime isn't much of a problem. There's also public housing in North beach, close to downtown, which had crime problems up through the 90s, until it was rebuilt. Another close-to-downtown project is in pacific heights, and I'm pretty sure that one mostly houses seniors as well. There are some in the northern part of the mission district too, that are just beyond the "outskirts" of downtown, but they're kind of rough. Still a lot safer than they were a couple decades ago though, before they were rebuilt.

There used to be quite a few highrise public housing buildings in the city, including a bunch in the Fillmore district, and some near the Sunnydale projects. But many of them got overrun with drug dealers in the 1970s, 80s, and 90s, and have since been torn down. Some others were converted to senior housing, in order to decrease crime.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Anyone here know if these in Reykjavik are social housing? Or these?


----------



## Isopropyl

1,200 unit housing development in Manila. Built at a cost of 610 million pesos (including site development) or about $11,675 per unit. 



























*source*


----------



## VITORIA MAN

carabanchel , madrid (E)

102 VIVIENDA EN CARABANCHEL (Madrid, Spagna) DOSMASUNO ARQUITECTOS por Channelbeta.net, en Flickr

102 VIVIENDA EN CARABANCHEL (Madrid, Spagna) DOSMASUNO ARQUITECTOS por Channelbeta.net, en Flickr

102 VIVIENDA EN CARABANCHEL (Madrid, Spagna) DOSMASUNO ARQUITECTOS por Channelbeta.net, en Flickr

Madrid, 100 Vivendias en Carabanchel. Foreign Office Architects por Jose Carlos Melo Dias, en Flickr


----------



## VITORIA MAN

.....

24 Social Housing por Wojtek Gurak, en Flickr

Viviendas P.O. para la EMVS. P. 17 Ensanche Carabanchel ACM Arquitectos. 3241 por javier1949, en Flickr

Viviendas P.O. para la EMVS. P. 17 Ensanche Carabanchel ACM Arquitectos. 3194 por javier1949, en Flickr

67 Carabanchel Ens. 17 Cánovas y Maruri 3186 por javier1949, en Flickr


----------



## VITORIA MAN

....

102 Social Housing por Wojtek Gurak, en Flickr


----------



## VITORIA MAN

....

102 Social Housing por Wojtek Gurak, en Flickr

102 Social Housing por Wojtek Gurak, en Flickr

Bambú Social Housing por Wojtek Gurak, en Flickr


----------



## VITORIA MAN

are these houses really designed for people , or to win awards ?


----------



## VITORIA MAN

logroño (E)

VPO DE TOYO ITO EN LOGROÑO | TOYO ITO'S SOCIAL HOUSING IN LOGROÑO por Gon.photo, en Flickr

VPO DE TOYO ITO EN LOGROÑO | TOYO ITO'S SOCIAL HOUSING IN LOGROÑO por Gon.photo, en Flickr


----------



## VITORIA MAN

....

VPO DE TOYO ITO EN LOGROÑO | TOYO ITO'S SOCIAL HOUSING IN LOGROÑO por Gon.photo, en Flickr

VPO DE TOYO ITO EN LOGROÑO | TOYO ITO'S SOCIAL HOUSING IN LOGROÑO por Gon.photo, en Flickr

VPO DE TOYO ITO EN LOGROÑO | TOYO ITO'S SOCIAL HOUSING IN LOGROÑO por Gon.photo, en Flickr


----------



## WingWing

Singapore






















Singapore Public Housing (HDB) by SaffronSpice, on Flickr


----------



## Svartmetall

I don't know how one can call HDB "public housing" in the same sense as the others. HDB are not for "poor people" as the thread title clearly states, but they are for the majority of Singaporeans.


----------



## WingWing

Svartmetall said:


> I don't know how one can call HDB "public housing" in the same sense as the others. HDB are not for "poor people" as the thread title clearly states, but they are for the majority of Singaporeans.


HDB is public housing. Its through subsidized and affordable housing. Though many singaporean are rich but majority still cant afford private home. 

HDB has two types, one is the big one which is slightly expensive but cheaper than private. The other type is for those who cant afford home which is most units come with one room only. In fact that they are built within the big hdb complex just like pic below.


----------



## Svartmetall

WingWing said:


> HDB is public housing. Its through subsidized and affordable housing. Though many singaporean are rich but majority still cant afford private home.
> 
> HDB has two types, one is the big one which is slightly expensive but cheaper than private. The other type is for those who cant afford home which is most units come with one room only. In fact that they are built within the big hdb complex just like pic below.


Yes, but just because it is public, it is not "public housing for poor people" in the traditional sense like all those others posted here. No other nation that I can think of has around 70% of its housing stock being publicly owned like in Singapore.


----------



## EGC_123

techniques1200s said:


> Some of the public housing in the southeast corner of San Francisco:
> 
> The Sunnydale projects:
> 
> The Potrero Hill projects:
> 
> various projects in Hunters Point:
> 
> The pics are a little old, but little has changed in these shots since they were taken.
> 
> SF's projects are among the most violent parts of the city. Case in point: the projects pictured here were the site of 7 shootings in the past 4 days, leaving 4 people dead and 6 injured. They're also quite run down, to the point that the US dept. of Housing and Urban Development rated many of them as among the worst in the nation back in 2007. Of course the city tends to ignore or be slow to react to the worst problems (mold, broken appliances, lack of smoke detectors, backed up sewers, broken lights, vacant units, squatters, bullet holes, etc) yet still manages to repaint them regularly so they look nicer from a distance. The SF Housing Authority is notoriously bad at what it does, and has been mismanaged and full of corruption for decades.
> 
> There are some decent projects in SF, but the vast majority of them are somewhere on the spectrum of "this is not a good place to live".


Woah. I thought this was from a third world country. This is why large areas of social housing are a bad idea. Australia also made this mistake in previous decades. Public housing is now integrated with private housing and alot of new land developments usually have a certain percentage of blocks for new public housing.


----------



## Dober_86

Yuri S Andrade, white-clad Brazilian paladin )))

All as one say that Brazilian developments are no good and everybody can clearly see why. Copy-pasted dog kennels made of what looks like plywood intended for the same inferior strata of the society (with no low-middle to middle-class mix to bring the average community qualiy of life a little higher), which will inevitably boil down to shanty towns. Inevitably because even the best of the developed countries couldn't avoid this paradigm, not to mention the developing countries.. But our brave knight in shining armor keeps maintaining otherwise and attempts to blindfold himself as well as everyone else. Why?


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

Dear Dober, speaking from 14 time zones away about a country you can't even find in a map:

You showed no evidence that this will happen. Only a burning desire that it does (not to mention the ignorant and twisted fantasies about slums). 

If you were really interested in the subject, not in country bashing, you would quickly realised social housing in this country has been doing very well for the past five decades. Info is plenty.


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

Bringing a close example, from *Londrina* (not that people will find interesting as bashing is juicier than the bland reality).

Up to 1975, Londrina (and northern Paraná state) were responsible over 1/3 of world coffee production. On 18th July, the "Black Frozen" came, and destroyed every single coffee plant. Over the night, the entire economic backbone of the region was ripped away. In the years following, over 2 million people left Northern Paraná, mostly to Mato Grosso (to plant soybeans) and to São Paulo. Londrina, as the biggest city in the region, suffered with the influx of many people from the surrounding rural areas and had to deal with it.

Then massive social housing projects were built in the late 1970's and early 1980's. In fact, almost the entire Northern Zone of the city (200,000 live there today) was originally a project with tens of thousands of identical and very plain homes (after an economic cataclism one couldn't expect more than that). 

Today, two/three decades later, that's how the region looks like: 

https://maps.google.com.br/?ll=-23....AYUl4ErqWW2HOCEVMR4OPQ&cbp=12,104.82,,0,-1.37

https://maps.google.com.br/?ll=-23....oid=52ZZY5ym3ixtBRla0dgkIw&cbp=12,8.5,,0,4.64

https://maps.google.com.br/?ll=-23....=hq6kTljIFXGkbRyoZbe6Lg&cbp=12,186.81,,0,4.84

https://maps.google.com.br/?ll=-23....=WZZoR5ZSkq-CMhw0jaVAow&cbp=12,102.21,,0,3.11

https://maps.google.com.br/?ll=-23....=AYUl4ErqWW2HOCEVMR4OPQ&cbp=12,270.75,,0,0.82

In short, aside the street grid, virtually no trace of the original projects remains. The whole area evolved into a regular lower middle-class neighbourhood even with pockets of middle-class as well.

You can find similar stories everywhere in Brazil.


----------



## Dober_86

Yuri S Andrade said:


> Dear Dober, speaking from 14 time zones away about a country you can't even find in a map:
> 
> You showed no evidence that this will happen. Only a burning desire that it does (not to mention the ignorant and twisted fantasies about slums).
> 
> If you were really interested in the subject, not in country bashing, you would quickly realised social housing in this country has been doing very well for the past five decades. Info is plenty.



I don't live 14 time zones away, know-it-all, and luckily I can find Brazil in a map  Getting personal doesn't make you any better. hno:

No one is bashing ur country, it's your obsession and exaggeration, just showing concern, that's all.


----------



## SydneyCity

Unfortunately the experience just about everywhere in the world has been that vast neighbourhoods of nothing but public housing are destined to become ghettoes of crime, welfare dependency and disadvantage. 

If neighbourhoods that entirely consist of public housing are so successful, how come governments in the UK, USA, Europe and Australia are doing everything that they can do to try and change the demographics of legacy public housing areas by selling off or demolishing the housing stock contained within them? In addition, low density public housing projects, despite the opinions of some, generally suffers the same problems as the 'towers in a park' style. The Mount Druitt area in Sydney is home to a massive public housing estate built in the 1960s and 1970s, with nearly 40,000 residents, most of which are housed in detached houses. By the 1980s it was a ghetto, and kept getting worse until the government began selling off some of the old homes in the early 2000s. Now, as a mixed community, it's nowhere near as bad as it used to be.


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

^^
Because Europe and the US got it wrong Brazil also has to do it so? I showed examples of how public housing evolved in Brazil along the decades and clearly everything moved upwards. 

It's really intriguing to me how people want everything to go the worse as possible.


----------



## Jonesy55

A recent trend in public housing in London, 'poor doors' where residents of social housing units in expensive developments are made to use separate entrances so that they cant use the glamorous lobbies and facilities that come for a hefty service charge for the residents of the building who pay market price.



> Multimillion pound housing developments in London are segregating less well-off tenants from wealthy homebuyers by forcing them to use separate entrances.
> 
> A Guardian investigation has discovered a growing trend in the capital's upmarket apartment blocks – which are required to include affordable homes in order to win planning permission – for the poorer residents to be forced to use alternative access, a phenomenon being dubbed "poor doors". Even bicycle storage spaces, rubbish disposal facilities and postal deliveries are being separated.
> 
> The Green party accused developers of showing "contempt for ordinary people" by enforcing such two-tier policies.
> 
> This week New York's mayor, Bill De Blasio, said he planned to take action to prevent new developments being built with separate entrances and facilities for low-income residents. His pledge followed a furore over a luxury block on the city's swanky Upper West Side which will have what US newspapers have dubbed a "poor door" for the social housing units on the site. But while the approval for segregated entrances in just one building in New York generated headlines, they are fast becoming standard practice in London.
> 
> "When Ken Livingstone left office he was keen that all developments should have their social housing 'pepperpotted' – mixed in with all the other more upmarket accommodation," said Ed Mead, a director at estate agent Douglas & Gordon which sells upmarket properties in central London. "This didn't go down well with developers with the result that most developments now have a separate entrance and a different look."
> 
> Tracey Kellett, a buying agent who trawls the capital looking for homes for wealthy clients, said a number of developments have separate entrances "so the two social strata don't have to meet". In one: "The affordable [housing] has vile coloured plastic panels on the outside rather than blingy glass."
> 
> At one building bordering the City financial district, the Guardian discovered wealthy owners accessed their homes via a hotel-style lobby area, while social housing tenants enter through a side door in an adjacent alley alongside trade entrances
> 
> In marketing information for another development currently under construction, would-be residents have been promised that the affordable homes will have a separate entrance, no access to car or cycle parking and that post and bins will also be divided.
> 
> As the London housing market has boomed the expectations of some of the capital's wealthiest homebuyers have grown and many properties now have communal areas akin to those in some of the world's best hotels.
> 
> Service charges to maintain these are high, and a separate entrance means housing associations and their tenants do not face these extra costs. However, as in New York, there are concerns that it is leading to increasingly divided communities.
> 
> Green party London assembly member Darren Johnson said: "This trend shows contempt for ordinary people, and is about developers selling luxury flats to rich investors who don't want to mix with local people."
> 
> He added: "The mayor and councils have been turning a blind eye to this for too long, they should simply refuse applications that have separate facilities or that refuse any affordable housing on this basis."
> 
> A spokesman for de Blasio's office in New York said this week : "We fundamentally disagree with (separate doors), and we are in the process of changing it to reflect our values and priorities. We want to make sure future affordable housing projects treat all families equitably."
> 
> Developers said separate doors let housing associations keep costs down as they avoided premium service charges paid by private residents.
> 
> Peter Allen, sales and marketing director for Londonewcastle which is behind the Queens Park Place development in north London said housing associations were sometimes unable to pay for all of the facilities covered by service charges. "The simplest way from a design perspective is to have things separate."
> 
> The brochure for the upmarket apartments of One Commercial Street, on the edge of the City, boasts of a "bespoke entrance lobby ... With the ambience of a stylish hotel reception area, it creates a stylish yet secure transition space between your home and the City streets".
> 
> In common with many of London's new concrete and glass residential blocks there's a concierge, on hand 24/7 to service the every need of residents paying a minimum of £500,000 – which only buys a studio flat – to live in this booming part of the city.
> 
> But the lobby is out of bounds to some of those who live in the building. What the brochure doesn't mention is a second door, with a considerably less glamorous lobby, tucked away in an alley to the side of the building, alongside the trade entrance for Pret a Manger.


http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jul/25/poor-doors-segregation-london-flats

'Poor door' on the right, lobby for other residents of the building on the left.


----------



## jacint.mif

Not everywhere in Europe was a failure. In Vienna more than a third of the population lives in public housing and I can't think of any single street of that city that approaches the "crime infested ghetto" level, in fact, they put it in huge letters outside when the building is public housing, they are that proud of it. In the Netherlands as well, specially in the biggest cities a huge percentage of the population, more than 30% at least, lives in public housing. 

But then, the situation in Europe and Brazil (or any poor country for that matter) is not directly comparable, the demographics and reasons for public housing are very divergent.


----------



## Keystone Properties

The demand drivers for affordable housing are several. Alongside the growth of the urban population, rising incomes have led to the expansion of the middle class. This has led to a spike in demand for housing that is affordable but includes basic amenities.


----------



## Svartmetall

Jonesy55 said:


> A recent trend in public housing in London, 'poor doors' where residents of social housing units in expensive developments are made to use separate entrances so that they cant use the glamorous lobbies and facilities that come for a hefty service charge for the residents of the building who pay market price.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jul/25/poor-doors-segregation-london-flats
> 
> 'Poor door' on the right, lobby for other residents of the building on the left.


That is frankly quite disgusting... I also don't like the term attached to it either - "poor door". Though I agree if there are amenities in the development like a gym or swimming pool, those who do not pay for their upkeep should not get to use them, but having a separate entrance is just downright disturbing.


----------



## Jonesy55

^^ Some of those extra facilities are in the lobby areas though, 24/7 concierge, luxury designer furniture etc so without a separate door you couldn't have separate facilities.

It doesn't bother me that much having thought about it, I live in a row of terraced houses, some bigger and smarter and more expensive than others, we all have separate doors and it doesn't bother me that I can't use the fancy hallway of the big house a few doors down the street. The 'poor door' shown in that pic doesn't look any worse or more humiliating to use than my own front door or those of millions of homes around the country.

The alternative (that used to be the norm) of having dedicated blocks entirely for poor people in different locations altogether from the rich apartments seems much worse to me. :dunno:


----------



## xrtn2

Brazil has a huge social housing program, each city manages it 


Entrega de moradias em Franca (19/02) by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


MCMV - Residencial Rio das Velhas-II (MG) by Programa de Aceleração do Crescimento, no Flickr


Entrega de 600 moradias em Itu (03/02) by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


Governador entrega 2048 moradias em Indaiatuba by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


Governo entrega 1.392 moradias no Riacho Fundo II by Agência Brasília, no Flickr


Entrega de moradias em Franca (19/02) by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


Entrega de moradias em Sorocaba (30/12) by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


Entrega de moradias em Itaí (19/12) by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


Entrega de moradias em Santa Mercedes (20/12) by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


Entrega de moradias em Catiguá (06/12) by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


Entrega de moradias em Santa Adélia (06/12) by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


----------



## xrtn2

gabrielbabb said:


> I
> 
> Mérida, Mexico


Are they managed by each municipality ?


----------



## xrtn2

HONG KONG


----------



## xrtn2

MELBOURNE AUSTRALIA 









wikipedia


----------



## xrtn2

Brazil


MCMV - Portal dos Ipês I_II_III (GO) 05/11/2015 by Programa de Aceleração do Crescimento, no Flickr


Residencial Flores da Cunha (RS) by Programa de Aceleração do Crescimento, no Flickr


MCMV - Residencial dos Pássaros - Itanhaem (SP) by Programa de Aceleração do Crescimento, no Flickr


MCMV - Residencial Rubi 30/10/2015 (SP) by Programa de Aceleração do Crescimento, no Flickr


MCMV - Residencial Tocantins (MG) by Programa de Aceleração do Crescimento, no Flickr

Rural zone


Loteamento Popular Vida Nova (RS) by Programa de Aceleração do Crescimento, no Flickr


----------



## xrtn2

New York


----------



## Blindfold

^^ Wow. What a beast. Is all that just one block? Anyone know where in NYC is or what this project is called?


----------



## xrtn2

^^ 3333 Broadway, Tower Block


----------



## suburbicide

Rural public housing in Træna, Norway:


----------



## xrtn2

*Brazilian ones *









COHAB 









COHAB 









COHAB 









COHAB 









COHAB










Uberlândia, Brasil 



















*Apartments 
*



















Sexta-feira, 8 de abril de 2016 by Blog do Planalto, no Flickr


Sexta-feira, 8 de abril de 2016 by Blog do Planalto, no Flickr


----------



## xrtn2

suburbicide said:


> Rural public housing in Træna, Norway:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [IM


Great design :cheers:


----------



## 009

some HDB flats in Singapore


Silent Slabs by night86mare, on Flickr


Enclosed by Jonathan Danker, on Flickr


blocks by joel_80, on Flickr


----------



## Rekarte

Theses in Singapore has the same standard for apt for high middle class in Brazil :lol:


----------



## IThomas

*Via Cenni Social Housing* (Milan, Italy)

The principles of the eco-village and the smart-city are all contained within this project: green roofs, community manager, walkability, integration of different urban functions, features and centrality of green space, environmentally friendly materials. 

















The buildings are designed in the energy class A (the greatest energy class). The excellent performances, which allow to estimate a reduction of the consumption of the 70-80%, are the result of the construction characteristics of the buildings, of the ecological devices adopted and of the plant and equipment used (heat pumps fed by groundwater) that allowed combine great economy, an high comfort and above all an elevated social identity of the persons who live there. The buildings are located in an area served by public transports and services.












































sources 1-2


----------



## IThomas

*Merlata Social Housing* (Milan, Italy)

The architects/designers proposed architectural solutions that make healthy living a priority. The buildings, arranged around a central space, the identity-creating space of the new complex, tapering upwards towards the upper floors, like granite blocks. 

The volumes have regular but faceted shapes, uniform from a material point of view but varied in colour and in the vibration of light. The tiered system allows the central space and lower premises to be illuminated, opening views and perspectives and ensuring large terraces. In this regard, a solar analysis was conducted with an assessment of the number of hours of sunshine per day on the surfaces: in the light of these variables, special attention was paid to the orientation and size of the transparent surfaces of the façade, as a function of sunshine and the use of each room. 









http://archivio.milanopanoramica.com/Zona-8/Cascina-Merlata/i-snMqj7L/A








http://archivio.milanopanoramica.com/Zona-8/Cascina-Merlata/i-Hgczrxc/A








http://archivio.milanopanoramica.com/Zona-8/Cascina-Merlata/i-SbrKxz9/A​
The buildings are classified in Class A: the inclusion of highly efficient solutions (photovoltaic panels, district heating, radiant floor heating, air treatment units) along with strong insulation envelope solutions (external insulation, low-e insulating glass) reduces the annual consumption for winter heating by 50%.

The system of tapering floors determines a different layout of the apartments on the different levels. Internal atriums have been introduced which provide access to the different residential units and at different heights, external terraces have been created, which are always divisible and can be used by adjoining apartments. The ground floor is a usable and bright communal space, suitable for hosting gardens and spaces of collective use.






The surrounding area is still U/C. A new shopping center, school, services will be added.


----------



## skyridgeline

Rekarte said:


> Theses in Singapore has the same standard for apt for high middle class in Brazil :lol:







http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/singapore-s-median/2551154.html











but (ie, Punggol Pricing for Waterfront I / Waterfront II @ Northshore, 99-year lease) ...

Source: http://esales.hdb.gov.sg/hdbvsf/eampu11p.nsf/0/15NOVBTOPG_page_1911/$file/pricing.html

2-room [email protected] 38 sqm 36 sqm 235 $84,000 - $116,000 
(47 sqm 45 sqm 596 $109,000 - $145,000)


----------



## no_malaise

Can Singapore HDB really be classified as public housing? In most cases public housing is state funded or subsidize for the lower income, HDB is more like state monopoly on housing developments than a true public housing initiative. I'm curious how much is the percentage of Singapore families living is HDB facilities.


----------



## skyridgeline

no_malaise said:


> Can Singapore HDB really be classified as public housing? In most cases public housing is state funded or subsidize for the lower income, HDB is more like state monopoly on housing developments than a true public housing initiative. I'm curious how much is the percentage of Singapore families living is HDB facilities.


2014 HDB % is 80.4.

Partly 'public housing' as in social welfare. But the HDB is run like a private developer and responds to market conditions. Instead of maximizing profits, the HDB aims to get the biggest bang for the dollar ( comes from employees/employers/government) it spends. 

Is it an abusive monopoly? I don't think so. It does use its scale monopoly to get good prices and efficiencies. The results are very good indeed.


http://sbr.com.sg/residential-property/exclusive/six-most-expensive-neighborhoods-in-singapore


----------



## xrtn2

^^ kay:


----------



## spaceworks

Hello all.

I'm running a website ( www.spcwrks.com ) and planning to make an article covering various kind and characteristics of public housing around the world. This thread has been very helpful in providing the photographs. Now I'd like to know more about the factual and technical aspects of the public housings posted in this thread.

Please allow me to ask you these questions. If you would like to answer, please don't forget to state which public housing project you are talking about, or at least from what country.

1. The name of the country?
2. The name of the public/social housing project?
3. The ownership type? (property rights/rent/else)
4. If it's property rights, what is the payment method? Or is it free of charge?
5. Any other interesting technical fact about public/social housing in your country?

*NOTE: Several public/social housing that have been appearing on this thread so far are those from Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Chile, England, Germany, Hong Kong, Italy, Latvia, Malaysia, Mexico, Netherlands, Norway, Russia, Scotland, Singapore, South Africa, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, and USA.*

*NOTE: If you don't want to post publicly, feel free to send me PM!*

Thank you verymuch!


----------



## nareik

xrtn2 said:


> MELBOURNE AUSTRALIA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wikipedia


Melbournes public housing looks alot like Londons


----------



## xrtn2

spaceworks said:


> Hello all.
> 
> 
> 1. The name of the country?


Brazil 



spaceworks said:


> 2. The name of the public/social housing project?


The main project is called _Minha Casa Minha Vida _ or My house my life. it's federal government's social housing program, was launched in March 2009 with a budget of R$36 billion (US$18 billion) to build one million homes. The second stage of the program, included was announced in March 2010. This stage foresees the construction of a further two million homes.

Of the total 3 million homes, 1.6 million are for families earning between 0 and 3 times the monthly minimum wage (R$888); 1 million homes are allocated to families with salaries between 3 and 6 times the monthly minimum wage; and the remaining 400,000 homes are for families earning between 6 and 10 times the monthly minimum wage. All funds for Minha Casa Minha Vida properties are provided by the Brazilian public bank, Caixa Econômica Federal.[9] The bank finances development and provides mortgages for qualifying families.




spaceworks said:


> 3. The ownership type? (property rights/rent/else)


Poeple who have monthly income up to R$ 1,600, those considered the range I of the Program they can not sell or rent the residence before the expiry of the financing, which is 10 years.



spaceworks said:


> 4. If it's property rights, what is the payment method? Or is it free of charge?


They arent free. For families earning between 0 and 3 times the monthly minimum wage it's about R$ 85 monthly(National minimum wage: 880 monthly)




spaceworks said:


> 5. Any other interesting technical fact about public/social housing in your country?
> !


Solar energy for water heating is mandatory in single storey houses in the federal government’s Minha Casa Minha Vida program. 










Also there are state housing programs.


----------



## spaceworks

Thank you very much!

Several more questions about Public/Social Housing in Brazil:

1. The ownership type for a landed house is full ownership?
2. Where do the inhabitants come from? From (government) relocation or from individual submission for home ownership?
3. What is the characteristics of the inhabitants in a complex of public housing:
- Do they usually come from a same (other) area?
- Do they usually have a same occupation (e.g. factory workers/farmer/etc)
4. Do you have any example of Public/Social Housing project in Brazil that is specialized for fishermen?

Thank you again in advance!



xrtn2 said:


> Brazil
> 
> Poeple who have monthly income up to R$ 1,600, those considered the range I of the Program they can not sell or rent the residence before the expiry of the financing, which is 10 years.
> 
> 
> 
> They arent free. For families earning between 0 and 3 times the monthly minimum wage it's about R$ 85 monthly(National minimum wage: 880 monthly)


----------



## xrtn2

spaceworks said:


> Thank you very much!
> 
> Several more questions about Public/Social Housing in Brazil:
> 
> 1. The ownership type for a landed house is full ownership?
> 2. Where do the inhabitants come from? From (government) relocation or from individual submission for home ownership?
> 3. What is the characteristics of the inhabitants in a complex of public housing:
> - Do they usually come from a same (other) area?
> - Do they usually have a same occupation (e.g. factory workers/farmer/etc)
> 4. Do you have any example of Public/Social Housing project in Brazil that is specialized for fishermen?
> 
> Thank you again in advance!


You're welcome !

The Minha Casa Minha Vida is a federal program covers all state capitals and municipalities with a population superior to 50 thousand people.

There are five different sub-programs, depending on income level and other special conditions.










*The low-income people are automatically enrolled to their sub-program* with unites available for distributions.
The Federal Government expects that states and municipalities will participate through, land donation, infrastructure, taxes reduction and the registration of demand.

*The low-income sub-program*

Houses and apartments are built by local government.

There are public sweepstakes for low-income families











Entrega de 42 casas em Magda (29/4) by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


**For income above three minimum salaries 
*
Houses and apartments are build by private building companies to sell them. 

*Households with income above three minimum salaries a month are self responsible for enrolling into the program that they qualify for.
*The maximum gross income of the households who can participate in the program is BRL 6.500 per month.

The government provides a subsidy up to BRL 25.000. 

The family selection process is made by the governmental bank Caixa Econômica Federal directly controlled by the Ministry of Finance.



















*Minha Casa minha vida rural* is a sub-program for low-income farmers










Conditions:

In order to participate in the program, the families must meet the following conditions:

*Never have been benefited by a governmental housing program before
*Not be homeowners or participate in any other finance program
*Not exceed the program gross income patterns
*The household will also have to commit to spend at least 10% of their gross income for the monthly parcel that can never be bellow BRL 50.

Numbers:

According to the Ministry of Cities, since the program's inception in 2009, *2.3 million homes have been delivered* and* 1.5 million homes are currently under construction.* At the third stage of the program, the goal is to sign more 3 million financing contracts of housing units by 2018.


----------



## 009

They should include retail/cultural/social establishments with those clusters of houses in the middle of nowhere. It looks like an isolated and depressing lifestyle


----------



## xrtn2

^^ 

For new low-income neighbourhoods

There are public transport, school, health care and all basic stuff.










*Public transport by bus










* playground










* Health care center










* School 
* Child care


----------



## xrtn2

Brazilian housing program 


2016.05.11 - GUARULHOS (foto JMPereira-CDHU) - IMG_8297 by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


----------



## xrtn2

Brazilian housing program 



Entrega de 144 moradias em Buritama (14/5) by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


Entrega de 144 moradias em Buritama (14/5) by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


Entrega de 144 moradias em Buritama (14/5) by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


----------



## xrtn2

Social Housing program Brazil 


url=https://flic.kr/p/HrorhB]Entrega de 116 casas em Taquarituba (20/5)[/url] by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


Entrega de 116 casas em Taquarituba (20/5) by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


----------



## xrtn2

Apartment housing program in Brazil


Segunda-feira, 25 de abril de 2016 by Blog do Planalto, no Flickr


----------



## xrtn2

Brazil


Entrega de 72 moradias no Centro (12/6) by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


Entrega de 72 moradias no Centro (12/6) by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


Entrega de 360 moradias em Itanhaém (10/6) by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


----------



## jeruco

Bogota, Colombia


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

xrtn2 said:


> Apartment housing program in Brazil
> 
> 
> Segunda-feira, 25 de abril de 2016 by Blog do Planalto, no Flickr


xrtn2, where is it?


----------



## xrtn2

^^ Sorry Yuri. it's Salvador, Bahia state


----------



## xrtn2

Social housing program in Brazil, Marília city


Entrega de 816 moradias em Marília (1/7) by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


Entrega de 816 moradias em Marília (1/7) by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


Entrega de 816 moradias em Marília (1/7) by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


Entrega de 816 moradias em Marília (1/7) by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


----------



## xrtn2

Social housing program in Brazil In Paraná state


----------



## xrtn2

*Social housing in Artur Nogueira in Brazil*





































Escuelas 










Las casas


----------



## Buccinasco Town

*Social Housing in Milan - Italy*

Zoia Social Housing Project - 2014 - Milan - Italy

Architects: Vincenzo Gaglio e Luca Mangoni














































Foto: Daniele Portanome


----------



## Buccinasco Town

*Social Housing in Bolzano - Italy*

Casanova Social Housing Project - Bolzano - Italy - 2012

Arch. arch. Siegfried Delueg


----------



## Buccinasco Town

*Social Housing in Milan - Italy*

Buccinasco Più Social Housing - Buccinasco - Milan -Italy - 2005


----------



## Eric Offereins

Buccinasco Town said:


> Casanova Social Housing Project - Bolzano - Italy - 2012
> 
> Arch. arch. Siegfried Delueg
> 
> ..


These are actually very nice for social housing.


----------



## xrtn2

Housing program in Indaiatuba, Brazil


----------



## Buccinasco Town

^^^^

Isn't this the same already posted on July the 8th (post n. 277 on page before this is identical)?

Double posting should be edited, thank you!


----------



## xrtn2

^^ Already fixed


----------



## xrtn2

Another example of social housing in Brazil


IMG_5079 by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


2016.08.16 - JUNDIAÍ (foto JMPereira) - IMG_3936 by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


Campinas(fDeangelo)29-07-2016 014 by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


IMG_4393[1] by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


Rodrigo Garcia em Franco da Rocha (fDeangelo)26-07-2016 186 by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


----------



## xrtn2

Social housing program in Brazil


IMG_5137 by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


IMG_5099 by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


IMG_8924 by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


IMG_5087 by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


IMG_5066 by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


IMG_7008 by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


----------



## Barragon

Lisbon | Loures - Quinta do Mocho









www.arcadedarwin.com








~
www.supakrazy.com









urbancanvas.com.ar


----------



## Barragon

*More from Lisbon*

Vialonga










Chelas










Carnaxide










Amadora


----------



## Jonesy55

Along with most of the UK there isn't much social housing being built at the moment in my area, but the link below shows what they tend to look like in new developments when they are built specifically as social housing.

http://www.starhousing.org.uk/new-build-developments/development-sites/

In addition many (most :dunno: ) private developments have to make a few homes available at cheaper prices to housing associations who then rent them oit to those requiring social housing.


----------



## abongon65

Very Nice


----------



## Buccinasco Town

*Social Housing in Milan - Italy*

Here a few pictures of the recently completed social housing project called "Cenni di Cambiamento" in Milan.

The most interesting thing is that these building *are almost entirely constructed with wood*.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

How good is wood in terms of sound insulation in collective housing? I would have thought not very good.


----------



## skyridgeline

Buccinasco Town said:


> Here a few pictures of the recently completed social housing project called "Cenni di Cambiamento" in Milan.
> 
> The most interesting thing is that these building *are almost entirely constructed with wood*.
> 
> ...





alexandru.mircea said:


> How good is wood in terms of *sound insulation* in collective housing? I would have thought not very good.



They are using the floor heating/cooling system as noise insulators as well.


Like this ...

https://www.soundproofingcompany.com/soundproofing101/how-sound-travels-through-a-floor/


----------



## xrtn2

Social housing in São José do Rio, Brasil 
































































By pacaembu


----------



## xrtn2

*Housing program in Brazil
*

Entrega de 46 moradias | Nipoã by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


IMG_3508 by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


IMG_3505 by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


Entrega de Unidades Habitacionais do Programa Minha Casa Minha Vida, em parceria com a Casa Paulista by Governo do Estado de São Paulo, no Flickr


Entrega de Unidades Habitacionais do Programa Minha Casa Minha Vida, em parceria com a Casa Paulista by Governo do Estado de São Paulo, no Flickr


----------



## xrtn2

*Anothers social housing in Brazil 2017*


----------



## xrtn2

edit


----------



## Mr Bricks

xrtn2 said:


> Another example of social housing in Brazil


Yes I think we all know by now what social housing in Brazil looks like, thank you.


----------



## xrtn2

Mr Bricks said:


> Yes I think we all know by now what social housing in Brazil looks like, thank you.


You're welcome


----------



## skyridgeline

The Brazil examples above looked depressing. Is it social housing or socal isolation? Are they work camps? And I don't think construction cost is the issue.


----------



## xrtn2

skyridgeline said:


> The Brazil examples above looked depressing. Is it social housing or socal isolation? Are they work camps? And I don't think construction cost is the issue.


Social housing in Brazil is funded *by taxes*. Brazil has a huge housing deficit, so our goverment built low-cost houses to replace favelas/unsafe houses



cdhu_sao_joao_de_iracema-0385 by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


cdhu_sao_joao_de_iracema-0379 by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


2017.02.03 - TAGUAI (foto JMPereira) - IMG_8137 by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


2017.04.21 - PATROCINIO PTA - SORTEIO (foto JMPereira) - IMG_5333 by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


Entrega de 69 casas em Coroados (9/12) by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


IMG_3049 by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


----------



## xrtn2

São Paulo's downtown social housing


F_13 by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


F_5 by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


F_8 by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


F_7 by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


F_3 by Secretaria da Habitação SP, no Flickr


----------



## Balkanada

skyridgeline said:


> The Brazil examples above looked depressing. Is it social housing or socal isolation? Are they work camps? And I don't think construction cost is the issue.


I don't know how there's any more social isolation in these examples than there is in detached houses that aren't social housing. I'm just more concerned with the fact that public funds are used to make detached houses... no other country in the world does this


----------



## Blindfold

Balkanada said:


> I'm just more concerned with the fact that public funds are used to make detached houses... no other country in the world does this


One country off the top of my head: Australia and I would bet there are many more. Unless you personally are paying tax to the Brazilian Govt, why does detached public housing concern you?


----------



## ElRaval

Theres not any "Social Housing" in Sweden.

The Swedish "public housing" is called 'Allmännyttigt bostadsföretag', which is mostly made out of flats owned by the local council (kommun). But there are no income restrictions, so basically a person with a high income could move there as well.

Most people that have payment remarks, social problems such as drug-use etc either rent "second hand" apartments on short term leases (mostly on the black market) or turn to the "Social Services" for help (socialtjänsten or soc).

There is however a thing called "Hotellhem" which helps people that has these types of problems. These are occupied mostly by men (but also families) that has been homeless, mental problems, has been in jail or has drug/alcohol-problems and are used as "genomgångsbostäder" (couldnt find a good translation for it, but its basically "until you can get by on your own"-apartments).

These can be found both in the inner city and the suburbs.


----------



## xrtn2

*Brazil*


----------



## ahehe_96

xrtn2 said:


> HONG KONG


The development in hong kong is depressing its a lifeless development.


----------



## ahehe_96

most mass urban development came to decay it is designed without a sense of humanity, a modern architecture shaped community.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

ahehe_96 said:


> The development in hong kong is depressing its a lifeless development.


I suspect it may be uninhabited yet. If so, when people move in things will change.


----------



## embassyofaudrey

Low cost Apartment Jakarta-Indonesia









*Free Trans-Jakarta BRT*


----------



## KeanoManu

The ground floor of most of the projects posted in this thread are just horrible. I get that they are not built in the most central parts of each city, but why can't they build them like they're in a city? Create, or expand, a city core. Instead of just having a dull wall with some doors here and there they should build storefronts and create a living street level. Maybe that will also open up for some non-social housing projects in the same area which will further benefit these projects. But no, public housing are always built as the criminally disastrous "tower-in-a-park" type of development.


----------



## ahehe_96

i agree with your argument there must be a better way in solving this crisis


----------



## xrtn2

*São Paulo Brazil*


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

Balkanada said:


> I don't know how there's any more social isolation in these examples than there is in detached houses that aren't social housing. I'm just more concerned with the fact that public funds are used to make detached houses... no other country in the world does this


Detached houses evolve into regular low middle class neighbourhoods as time goes by and people make improvements.

They proved much more successful than vertical social housing in the US or Europe.




KeanoManu said:


> The ground floor of most of the projects posted in this thread are just horrible. I get that they are not built in the most central parts of each city, but why can't they build them like they're in a city? Create, or expand, a city core. Instead of just having a dull wall with some doors here and there they should build storefronts and create a living street level. Maybe that will also open up for some non-social housing projects in the same area which will further benefit these projects. But no, public housing are always built as the criminally disastrous "tower-in-a-park" type of development.


In Brazil they are built as regular neighbourhoods, contiguous to the existent urban footprint.


----------



## skyridgeline

xrtn2 said:


> HONG KONG





ahehe_96 said:


> The development in hong kong is depressing its a lifeless development.



Those are mainly the Shin Ming/Kin Ming Estates and Choi Ming Court in Tiu Keng Leng/Wan.

Google Maps capture










All the highrises in the capture are public housing ...

281Production Youtube capture















Inside the library and sports center ...







A bit of Tui Keng Leng history ...


----------



## The Polwoman

KeanoManu said:


> The ground floor of most of the projects posted in this thread are just horrible. I get that they are not built in the most central parts of each city, but why can't they build them like they're in a city? Create, or expand, a city core. Instead of just having a dull wall with some doors here and there they should build storefronts and create a living street level. Maybe that will also open up for some non-social housing projects in the same area which will further benefit these projects. But no, public housing are always built as the criminally disastrous "tower-in-a-park" type of development.




Correct. Especially at this density, when more than twenty levels stack up, then having the ground floor filled with shops, services and restaurants is always profitable. In the worst case an office canteen could be extended to the outside with terraces but what in heaven's name is going wrong?


The reason why many Western cities are a success, the sole reason why Rotterdam climbed up, is because the ground floors of many of these buildings they built in the past thirty years are vivid, always have an influx of people at least or people have their destination somewhere on the street. The reason why Rotterdam Central station is a success is only partial because of its architectural quality - it has a good balance with amenities in the station, for which gates would not even be required in order to keep the place clear of beggars and drug dealers, they are only for the passengers who dare to go without a chip card.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

KeanoManu said:


> But no, public housing are always built as the criminally disastrous "tower-in-a-park" type of development.


Really? I looked again, to make sure, over the posts made here in this thread for the last few months and I found literally not one example of the "tower in a park" type. There are towers in that example in Hong Kong, for sure, but they are insanely close to each other. Then there are the "detached house in the countryside" examples from Brazil, which are by far the worst. (What are they thinking?) I also noticed this example which is interesting because at a superficial look it can give the impression of bad planning, but if you imagine that particular allotment surrounded by city, then it looks like quite decent planning. 

That said I agree with your observation (and Polman's just above) about ground levels that are completely barren of any activities. I know that such residential areas can't sustain much commerce, but there's still much that can be done. I get that people will go to the supermarket (or the highstreet) on a regular basis to save money and time, but there still are certain shops that can be accommodated, the kind of shops that one needs on a daily basis: bakeries, small groceries, newspaper stands, maybe barbershops... And a small restaurant / patisserie here and there. Then, quite a lot of space can be set for community spaces: laundromat rooms, reading rooms, table tennis rooms etc, which get more important the more the place is further away from the livelier spots of the city. You can leave space for associations, and, as is now the fashion, coworking spots. Shared gardens are great as well. Then there are the crêches, kindergartens, the schools, the playgrounds, the sports facilities... Edit: and I forgot ground level rooms for medical cabinets, which I find quite important. Such places tend to be badly served, so this would be an incentive for medics to set in by making it easy for them, instead of hoping they would do it on their own, because they won't...


----------



## Yuri S Andrade

alexandru.mircea said:


> Then there are the "detached house in the countryside" examples from Brazil, which are by far the worst. (What are they thinking?)


As it was told several times, social housing is NOT built in the countryside, but contiguous to the urban footprint.

Londrina: https://www.google.com.br/maps/@-23.2691014,-51.1974053,1466m/data=!3m1!1e3

Lins: https://www.google.com.br/maps/@-21.6596679,-49.7677391,1479m/data=!3m1!1e3

São José do Rio Preto: https://www.google.com.br/maps/@-20.7478747,-49.3716687,1467m/data=!3m1!1e3

Araraquara: https://www.google.com.br/maps/@-21.7280449,-48.1577858,2904m/data=!3m1!1e3

São Carlos: https://www.google.com.br/maps/@-21.9835368,-47.943358,1465m/data=!3m1!1e3

It's the same pattern everywhere, for obvious the most obvious reason: you won't build other houses on top of existent ones. Upmarket gated communities are also built on the outskirts.


----------



## Barragon

*Portugal*









jornaldoalgarve









Guimaraesdigital









bloghumanista









João Pimentel Ferreira









domussocial









associaçãospin


----------



## ElRaval

I think the title is a bit misleading. Public Housing doesnt have to be for people with low income.


----------



## Afro Circus

*Cidade do Kilamba*
Cidade do Kilamba housing project, Angola


On *Panoramio*











​


----------



## Afro Circus

*Dundo Public housing*
Dundo housing project, Angola


On *SSC Angola*











​


----------



## Rekarte

^^
Nice one!


----------



## Spyrith

Afro Circus said:


> *Dundo Public housing*
> Dundo housing project, Angola
> 
> 
> On *SSC Angola*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


Are those purely residential areas or mixed use? I've always found this obsession with single use zones to be very damaging to the fabric of a city, because it doesn't create a sense of community and is also very incovenient. If you want to go shopping, you basically have to traverse long distances to go to a very crowded store 1-2 kilometres away. It makes life feel like you're in a giant animal farm, except it's purely designed for humans.


----------



## Skabbymuff

nareik said:


> Melbournes public housing looks alot like Londons


Actually, it's as if it's been modeled solely on Chicago blocks. We do have blocks very similar to this in London, but it's as if the same architects of Chicago's nightmares have designed Melbournes also!


----------



## qnayeon

El_Greco said:


> How do you know this wont become a slum? You don't tackle poverty and inequality by shipping the poor off to the outskirts. You build mixed communities. I'm sure it's possible to find space in the inner areas.


Huh? You make 0 sense 
This won't become a slum because slums are invasions, at least by definition in Brazil slums are invasions and illegal buildings.


----------



## qnayeon

Jonesy55 said:


> I'm pretty sure there are poorer Brazilians living in far worse housing than those shown.


No, Brasil is not a huge Rio bro, not all poor people live in dirty crime ridden favelas (you're probably thinking that)
That's an old comment, I hope you know that already 
😆


----------



## Jonesy55

qnayeon said:


> No, Brasil is not a huge Rio bro, not all poor people live in dirty crime ridden favelas (you're probably thinking that)
> That's an old comment, I hope you know that already
> 😆


Yeah, i didn't say that though. I said that there will be plenty of Brazilians living in worse places than shown in the pics, which is true. 😉


----------



## qnayeon

Jonesy55 said:


> Yeah, i didn't say that though. I said that there will be plenty of Brazilians living in worse places than shown in the pics, which is true. 😉


It's true but I live in the poorest region in the country and this kind of housing is on the lower end, class D/E not that many people live in worse conditions than this at least where I live to make this statement. Also there's probably people living in worse conditions than this in Europe or US and the statement could be true to anywhere in the world really, but what counts imo is how many people live in such conditions... I'd like to know where exactly do you have as an example to make this statement relevant.


----------

