# Israel Wall



## Hebrewtext (Aug 18, 2004)

jb_nl said:


> The occupation and ethnic cleansing started in the end of 1947. Already in 1947 there were huge razzia's in Haifa2, killing a lot of Palestinians and forcing them to become refugees. While in 1948 whole villages where murdered and bombed, completing the ethnic cleansing.



rubbish

the Jews were the defensless by the Arab terror since the 1920's.
7 Arab armies + Palestinians gangs invaded Israel in 1948 to destroy it and to ethnic clean it from Jews.

*and you lost so pay the price*

how many Israelis died in the war of 48 ?
how many Israeli towns lost to Jordan and became refugess in 1948 ?
how many massacres of Jews by the Jordanians and Palestinian gangs commited?

no one talks about that


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## jb_nl (Jun 10, 2009)

Hebrewtext said:


> rubbish
> 
> the Jews were the defensless by the Arab terror since the 1920's.
> 7 Arab armies + Palestinians gangs invaded Israel in 1948 to destroy it and to ethnic clean it from Jews.
> ...


Far less then the number of palestinian refugees and murdered palestinians. Btw, research says that the palestinians have more DNA of the ancient israelites that lived over there then the israeli's :lol:

when did they do that? yes, after the israeli's started plan Delta in 1947. And those armies were nothing, already in 1948 Ben Gurion (who should be prosecuted in The Hague for mass murder and ethnic cleansing (Ilan Pappe)) said to his officers that they would win easily, which was true, they were very well trained and had much more material and even airplanes. + they had a much bigger army than the armies all together that were send to defend the palestinians + those armies were nothing because Lebanon and Syria were only since a few years independent and hadn't build up a good army at all + Egypt was still under the British occupation so also they couldn't do a lot + the only powerfull army, that of jordan, had already made a treaty with israel because they wanted the west of Palestine.

You should read about the bloody founding and history of israel. Go and read Ilan Pappé and Shlomo Sand!


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## Hebrewtext (Aug 18, 2004)

jb_nl said:


> If in the USA suddenly some spanish people believe that the USA is their holy country and they start a war, and push all americans into canada, mexico, and they can only live in Arizona and Washington State than you would also start organise a defense!


rubbish


no one suddenly believe it is their holy land and invade a soverign "Palestinian" state.


the land is full of Hebrew civilization and Jewish archeaology sites , the source of the new Christian and the new Islam todays cultures.


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## Hebrewtext (Aug 18, 2004)

jb_nl said:


> Far less then the number of palestinian refugees and murdered palestinians. Btw, research says that the palestinians have more DNA of the ancient israelites that lived over there then the israeli's :lol:.


rubbish



jb_nl said:


> when did they do that? yes, after the israeli's started plan Delta in 1947. And those armies were nothing, already in 1948 Ben Gurion (who should be prosecuted in The Hague for mass murder and ethnic cleansing (Ilan Pappe)) said to his officers that they would win easily, which was true, they were very well trained and had much more material and even airplanes. + they had a much bigger army than the armies all together that were send to defend the palestinians + those armies were nothing because Lebanon and Syria were only since a few years independent and hadn't build up a good army at all + Egypt was still under the British occupation so also they couldn't do a lot + the only powerfull army, that of jordan, had already made a treaty with israel because they wanted the west of Palestine.


early 1948 there was no army, all the Jewish pop. counted 650,0000.
with no planes and no tanks.

remarkably the skilled Jews manage to build an army ,train people, to buy planes and tanks and to develope military industry . during the war of 1948 and to win.
so the mighty IDF continous to defend Israel till today from the fanatic Islamic lunatics around us.


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## jb_nl (Jun 10, 2009)

Hebrewtext said:


> rubbish
> 
> 
> no one suddenly believe it is their holy land and invade a soverign "Palestinian" state.
> ...


read shlomo sand  

you should also visit the "national parks", to find oud more about their history  and find out what used to be in these parks and how it can be that there are olive trees in those forests  

claiming israel is the same rubbish as that the Italians would claim all of the mediteranian area because all the archeological sites over there. Instead of living together and integrating israeli people mostly (with a few exceptions like Ilan Pappe en Shlomo Sand) prefer to murder other people and destroy this wunderfull region.


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## jb_nl (Jun 10, 2009)

Hebrewtext said:


> rubbish
> 
> 
> 
> ...


they were already trained by the british occupation forces, and they used them to supress the Palestinian revolt against the british occupation. They had a much bigger army than all the other armies together. The story of the "little tiny Israel" is fantasy. In the beginning it was not more than logical than that they would win. You forget the terrorist armies of the Irgun and Hagana who murdered a lot of Palestinian villages in SS like style by executing a lot of people.


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## javi itzhak (Mar 4, 2008)

at the very beginning there was a two state solution proclaimed by the UN, if palestinians wanted to make an ethnic clean and couldn't handle it at the end, sorry for them.., like hebrewtext wrote, there's a price for that. 

and about the wall u know what i think, security only.


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## Hebrewtext (Aug 18, 2004)

jb_nl said:


> they were already trained by the british occupation forces, and they used them to supress the Palestinian revolt against the british occupation. They had a much bigger army than all the other armies together. The story of the "little tiny Israel" is fantasy. In the beginning it was not more than logical than that they would win. You forget the terrorist armies of the Irgun and Hagana who murdered a lot of Palestinian villages in SS like style by executing a lot of people.


the British built the Jordanian army and trained it, the Jews fought the British for independece.

the first day of the war 1948 there was *no Israeli army at all*, Ben Gurion ordered the Jewish militias to join to one army, with no tanks nor planes, 
compared to regular trained Arab well aquiped armies.

yes after few months of fighting and losses ,by buying weapons recruiting men &wemen ,the IDF turned larger and better aquiped force till today.


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## jb_nl (Jun 10, 2009)

Hebrewtext said:


> from the fanatic Islamic lunatics around us.



you mean those nazi lunatics (NAZI = Nationalistic Zionists), those extremistic jews.

Btw, those are not just muslims, you are talking about people, whatever religion they have, it are just people, who are being murdered, like in Kosovo, and so we should help them! 

And you totally forget that the region is a wonderful mosaic of different people, kurds, druz, 3alewi, sunni, shi3i, suryoyo, maronite, lebanese communistic, catholic and non-religious people! While Israel is triying to kill everything that is non-jewish! They could learn a lot from syrie, where a lot of groups are living together and where the jews have much more rights than the palestinians in their own occupied land! 

you also for example forget that this singer is a christian: wonderfull rock music!






The Germans also considered the Netherlands as theirs, but also we had the right to fight them, and now we support the Palestinians to fight their occupators! In December and January the demonstrations against the violence of Israel were bigger than ever! A comparison: the hague: 1000 people, amsterdam: 10.000 people. While there were only 300 people on a pro-israel (let's go on with massmurdering) demonstration!


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## Dubai_Boy (May 21, 2003)

Hebrewtext you should lestin to the guys here  one day all the evil you stand for will bite you in the ass hard , very hard. All occupying forces face the same fate at the end , and both you and i know it never ends well  so take the chance and make friends while you still can.


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## jb_nl (Jun 10, 2009)

javi itzhak said:


> at the very beginning there was a two state solution proclaimed by the UN, if palestinians wanted to make an ethnic clean and couldn't handle it at the end, sorry for them.., like hebrewtext wrote, there's a price for that.
> 
> and about the wall u know what i think, security only.


mankind never learns  how strange is it that first so many jews suffered in Europe and that instead of never such a thing again they are now doing the same things to others  They always say that bullied people become the bulliers themselves

those israeli's and their supporters are the biggest anti-semitics themselves, while they are murdering other semitic people like the arabs.


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## Hebrewtext (Aug 18, 2004)

jb_nl said:


> read shlomo sand
> 
> you should also visit the "national parks", to find oud more about their history  and find out what used to be in these parks and how it can be that there are olive trees in those forests
> 
> claiming israel is the same rubbish as that the Italians would claim all of the mediteranian area because all the archeological sites over there. Instead of living together and integrating israeli people mostly (with a few exceptions like Ilan Pappe en Shlomo Sand) prefer to murder other people and destroy this wunderfull region.




the Palestinian abounded villages erected on Jewish ones, and even kept the Hebrew name.

sorry but the Roman towns in Israel were setteled by Jews/Hebrew ones at that time . Rome itself (BC era)was pagan city and not as it today except for the Jews living there.


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## jb_nl (Jun 10, 2009)

Dubai_Boy said:


> Hebrewtext you should lestin to the guys here  one day all the evil you stand for will bite you in the ass hard , very hard. All occupying forces face the same fate at the end , and both you and i know it never ends well  so take the chance and make friends while you still can.


*بالروح بالدم نفديك يا فلسطين*

Holland is with you. 

Btw, you're from Dubai? How do you think about the corrupt dictators of Sa3oudia and Egypt, doing nothing and smiling while all those people are being murdered?


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## jb_nl (Jun 10, 2009)

people laughing and liking it to see people being murdered are sick, totally sick! Shame on you hebrewtext.


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## Hebrewtext (Aug 18, 2004)

Dubai_Boy said:


> Hebrewtext you should lestin to the guys here  one day all the evil you stand for will bite you in the ass hard , very hard. All occupying forces face the same fate at the end , and both you and i know it never ends well  so take the chance and make friends while you still can.



to listen to false Arab propaganda?

I responds to the false claims by jb_nl made here. 

personaly i think Israel should withdraw and to build a Palestinian state.
but that wan't stop the fanatic lunatic muslims to continue fight.....hno:


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## Dubai_Boy (May 21, 2003)

jb_nl said:


> *بالروح بالدم نفديك يا فلسطين*
> 
> Holland is with you.
> 
> Btw, you're from Dubai? How do you think about the corrupt dictators of Sa3oudia and Egypt, doing nothing and smiling while all those people are being murdered?


Not only Saudi arabia and Egypt , all of us , from rulers to commoners are responsible to help out not only palastenians , but people all around the world oppressed and occupied by forces such as the zionists.


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## jb_nl (Jun 10, 2009)

Hebrewtext said:


> Islamic lunatics around us.


 I've been multiple times in Arabic countries and those are fantastic countries with wunderfull friendly people! People with the same desires and needs as all other people in the world and with the same diversity.

Do you see these guys as a danger?


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## jb_nl (Jun 10, 2009)

Dubai_Boy said:


> Not only Saudi arabia and Egypt , all of us , from rulers to commoners are responsible to help out not only palastenians , but people all around the world oppressed and occupied by forces such as the zionists.


yes true, I'm happy that Obama dares to mention some things never mentioned before by a USA president and that Spain is now officially starting a case at the court against the murders of Israel. But much more should be done. Also the preacher Wright of Obama is totally right about the reason why 11th of september happened. 

Yes, also see Birma or Zimbabwe, all we do is watch, and do nothing  the only time we did something good was at Kosovo.


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## javi itzhak (Mar 4, 2008)

jb_nl said:


> mankind never learns  how strange is it that first so many jews suffered in Europe and that instead of never such a thing again they are now doing the same things to others  They always say that bullied people become the bulliers themselves
> 
> those israeli's and their supporters are the biggest anti-semitics themselves, while they are murdering other semitic people like the arabs.


do you know how many times i heard that before and mostly from europeans ? you didn't answer to my argument, just change the topic with the same cheap propaganda. 

It's boring to discuss with people that love to hate Israel and only see one side of the conflict presenting the palestinians as victims of occupation, gimme a break, and this surrounding middle eastern countries want to focus only in Israel just to make people forget for a while their third world country problems. Suddenly Israel is the guilty of all of their miseries.


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## javi itzhak (Mar 4, 2008)

craperskys said:


> i guess there are a bunch of other forums to debate this kind of political and hypocritical crap guys .
> 
> other than that; a preventative concrete wall for defensive purposes and "architecture" ... huh? very subtile


yeah i support ur comment, 

moderators please close this thread, is one of this threads where Israel haters like to write politics and cheap propaganda.


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## jb_nl (Jun 10, 2009)

javi itzhak said:


> yeah i support ur comment,
> 
> moderators please close this thread, is one of this threads where Israel haters like to write politics and cheap propaganda.


Always when you guys are loosing sympathy and loosing the discussion you want to stop discussing. Like Israel, don't talk and negiotate, just murder and bomb. That's the most easy way when nobody does anything. 

btw, wtf arab propaganda? If there is one country a professional in propaganda it is Israel.


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## javi itzhak (Mar 4, 2008)

jb_nl said:


> Always when you guys are loosing sympathy and loosing the discussion you want to stop discussing. Like Israel, don't talk and negiotate, just murder and bomb. That's the most easy way when nobody does anything.
> 
> btw, wtf arab propaganda? If there is one country a professional in propaganda it is Israel.


loosing simpathy ? u and dubai boy are the only ones that are discussing against in here :nuts:, nobody cares, get a life, this is an architecture forum, you know this thread doesn't belong here.


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## jb_nl (Jun 10, 2009)

javi itzhak said:


> loosing simpathy ? u and dubai boy are the only ones that are discussing against in here :nuts:, nobody cares, get a life, this is an architecture forum, you know this thread doesn't belong here.


this whole wall doesn't belong there :lol:


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## Judazzz (Jul 7, 2006)

I took these pictures in September 2008:














































I felt really disgusted (almost to the point of feeling physically sick) when I was standing face to face with this wall. Still can't believe something like this is still possible these days hno:
Yes, the Separation Wall serves its purpose, and did actually improve security in Israel immensely, but at a tremendous price (ie. making a lasting peace completely impossible). This wall won't help one bit in the long run: as long as it is standing there, serving as a reminder of, and a tool for land grabbing and ghettoising, it will fuel division, hatred and extremism - it's _the_ symbol of the pointlessness of the conflict, and of the unwillingness on both sides to find a sustainable solution...

@ Yavi: dont impose _your_ own utter indifference on others. You apparantly don't give a crap, but here's a news flash for you: others actually do, and not just those that are being marginalised by the Wall...


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## wonkcerbon (Sep 1, 2004)

BRINGING DOWN THE WALL of NAZI (nation of zionist)!!!!


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## Hebrewtext (Aug 18, 2004)

jb_nl said:


> yes true, I'm happy that Obama dares to mention some things never mentioned before by a USA president and that Spain is now officially starting a case at the court against the murders of Israel. But much more should be done. Also the preacher Wright of Obama is totally right about the reason why 11th of september happened.
> 
> Yes, also see Birma or Zimbabwe, all we do is watch, and do nothing  the only time we did something good was at Kosovo.


Spain stoped the procedures at the upper court.


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## D K (May 8, 2009)

The wall of racism, hate and injustice.


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## javi itzhak (Mar 4, 2008)

Judazzz said:


> I took these pictures in September 2008:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hi, i'm not trying to impose anything, i know that there are millions of people who has strong feelings about this issue, i'm just saying that this is an architecture forum, nobody should care about discussing this in here, and is very bad taste to find a pointless discussion of my country in an architecture forum, give us a break please! i don't mind to discuss it in forums that were created to argue about this conflict, but certainly THIS is not the place. 

by the way, it seems that you have more inteligent answers than this other guy jb nl , i appreciate u colaborate with ur own pics and share ur opinion based on ur experience in Israel and Palestine.


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## 69er (Jan 12, 2008)

I will pray every night that every fucking jew in the world dies of aides, the mother fuckers will all die if god is willing, god damn occupiers. Death to all Israelis


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## Hebrewtext (Aug 18, 2004)

69er said:


> I will pray every night that every fucking jew in the world dies of aides, the mother fuckers will all die if god is willing, god damn occupiers. Death to all Israelis


the true voice of anti Israel, not standing behind the term Zionism.


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## Judazzz (Jul 7, 2006)

javi itzhak said:


> hi, i'm not trying to impose anything, i know that there are millions of people who has strong feelings about this issue, i'm just saying that this is an architecture forum, nobody should care about discussing this in here, and is very bad taste to find a pointless discussion of my country in an architecture forum, give us a break please! i don't mind to discuss it in forums that were created to argue about this conflict, but certainly THIS is not the place.


Ok, I have to give you that. But I also believe people should be able to talk about it, even on this forum (in a way, even this wall is in some way related to urban planning, be it in an odd way) - imho. the problem is not the topic itself, as there are enough people that are mature, civil and intelligent enough to discuss even sensible issues such as this one. The problem lies in those that lack those virtues (case at hand: that 69er schmuck two post back), which make it virtually impossible to keep it civil...



javi itzhak said:


> by the way, it seems that you have more inteligent answers than this other guy jb nl , i appreciate u colaborate with ur own pics and share ur opinion based on ur experience in Israel and Palestine.


Well, I don't want to judge that other guy, but I don't choose sides when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (or any other, for that matter), I guess due to my study (Cultural History with focus on the modern Middle East), which taught me to always look at things from a distance whilst maintaining impartiality. Although I have to admit I tend to feel worse for the Palestinians, which I guess is due to the underdog position they're in, as well as the fact - without wanting to downplay the hardships the Israeli's have gone through - that in the end they did and still do suffer much more. I met both Israeli's and Palestinians during my trip last year, and generally I felt they all were very honest, friendly and hospitable people. There are trouble-makers and solution-seekers on both sides of the fence, and those ordinary, decent people I met are not the problem - it's the militants, the settlers, basically the extremists on both sides that are the big obstacle to a lasting solution.


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## Ukraine (Apr 2, 2009)

WHAT SHOULD WE DISCUSS ABOUT????? A FUCKING WALLhno: ITS A SHAME FOR ISRAEL GOVERNEMENT DOING THAT!!!!! I DONT SEE WHAT COULD WE DISCUSS ABOUT THIS WALL-----HOW BEAUTIFUL THESE DRAWINGs ARE???? JUST DESTROY IT ALREADY AND MAKE PEACE WITH PALESTINE AND THE OTHER COUNTRIES THAT U MADE WAR WITH INSTEAD Of SAYING ITS THEIR FAULT. IM SURE THE ISRAELI PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF THIS GOVERNEMENT PROBLEM BS. THIS SHOULDNT BE EVEN IN THE FORUM CUZ ITS NOT ARCHITECTURE, ITS A SHAME AND FAILURE FROM ISRAEL.I FEEL VERY BAD TO THE PEOPLE FROM ISRAEL TO BE ISOLATED FROM THESE WALLS THAT THEY NEVER ASKED TO BE BUILD.NOW DELETE THIS SHIT THREAD CUZ THERES NOTHIN TO TALK ABOUT


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## jb_nl (Jun 10, 2009)

the problem is that nobody is forcing israel to do something, there have been more than enough negotiations with palestinians and Hamas and they are willing to negotiate, but israel is also isolating a lot of people because of which it is impossible to negotiate with people in Ghaza. While nobody is forcing Israel to say goodbye to violence.


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## Ukraine (Apr 2, 2009)

jb_nl said:


> the problem is that nobody is forcing israel to do something, there have been more than enough negotiations with palestinians and Hamas and they are willing to negotiate, but israel is also isolating a lot of people because of which it is impossible to negotiate with people in Ghaza. While nobody is forcing Israel to say goodbye to violence.


You know whats weird?? christians,jews,arabs and many other civilzations fought for this land 4000 years ago and yet every war of this past century that has been won by the good guys they said " we will make sure this never happens" but we still cant find peace in the so called " HOLY LAND"hno:hno:


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## jb_nl (Jun 10, 2009)

All of us should place Israel under our rule and force them to respect the others instead of destroying them. If 7izbollah has to disarm so has israel! And if they won't, we must start a war!


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## Leadingtraveler (Jun 13, 2007)

Dubai boy, the Palestinian civilians killed by the Israeli military wouldn't be dead if they were not used as human shields by the cowards who call themselves "Palestinian freedom fighters." Compare the Arab world with Israel. In 60 years Israel was able to accomplish what the Arab world couldn't in hundreds of years. Many of you like to act as if the Palestinian Arabs are the victims. They are the ones who sided with Adolf Hitler during World War 2. It was the Palestinian national leader Al Husseini who was a personal guest of Hitler's in Germany during World War 2, who encouraged Arabs through radio to assist the Nazis in their Holocaust against the Jewish people. Palestinians and Arabs still look at Husseini as their "George Washington", and Husseini was the one who encouraged Hitler to kill more and more Jews. Yet the Arabs still love him. There was never an independent Palestine; the name "Palestine" was assigned to what is today Israel by the Romans after they conquered the land; it was meant to humiliate the Israelis because the name was derived from the other group, the Philistines, who were battling the ancient Israelites and eventually died out. The Arabs are quick to condemn Israel for it's attempts to defeat radical Islamic terrorism but they are silent when it comes to the huge human rights abuses in their own countries; the execution of homosexuals, the beating and execution of women, the stoning of "adulterous" women, the suppression of dissent, the poverty that their wealthy leaders ignore and use as propaganda tools. Stop blaming the Jews and Israelis for everything and take a look at your own backward societies.


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## Dubai_Boy (May 21, 2003)

leadingtraveler , after reading all the rubbish , twisted and made up so called fact you provided , one can conclude your as blind as a bat  go crawl back in the hole your living in. 

i expected a serious answer from you and you spam me with lies  expected though.


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## kuquito (Aug 8, 2006)

the wall of shame

why can't we just..... get along!


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## Ukraine (Apr 2, 2009)

leading traveler your post was pointless and ur facts didnt make any sense


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## Juan Pilgrim (Apr 3, 2008)

effective, maybe.
UGLY, for sure!





:horse:


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