# [SLO] Slovenia | road infrastructure • Slovenske avtoceste



## Verso

*The Sežana Highway (A3)*

The A3 highway connects the A1 with the Italian border on route between Ljubljana and Trieste. Its length is 12 km (8 mi) and all of it is motorway. It was completed 10 years ago. I took the pictures 3 days ago.

Interchange Gabrk. If coming from Ljubljana, you don't need to slow down.









On the A3 (also E61, E70 and Corridor V).


















Ljubljana - Trieste = 3.7 €.


















Just 11 km to Trieste. But what the hell is wrong with my hand? Do I have Parkinson's disease or what??



























About 2 km from here there's border crossing Fernetiči/Fernetti, between Slovenia and Italy. Right after the border you either continue straight forward to Trieste on a 2-lane SS58 road, or turn right, for Venice, onto the RA14 motorway, which after 2 km merges in the RA13 motorway, and that one soon merges in the A4 motorway.









:cheers:


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## Nephasto

Fern said:


> I.e. you blocked out an entire lane  That's why I don't understand how that can be a safe system



That's very comon... not to have a hard shoulder when you have an additional lane for slow vehicles.
It's that way in Portugal too.... when can see it for example on the steeper slopes of A1, a bit to the north of Torres Novas, or near Leiria.

I have 2 photo's of it, taken on A1, near Leiria:



















I hope our slovenian friends don't mind me putting this 2 photo's of the portuguese counterpart of your A1.


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## Fern

I'd never noticed it. That's probably just a way of saving money! IMO motorways should have a hardshoulder all throughout their length in case a car breaks down.


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## ChrisZwolle

> Just 11 km to Trieste. But what the hell is wrong with my hand? Do I have Parkinson's disease, or what??


Your camera just focused on something else, sometimes, that happens, i have it too sometimes. But i still like your pics


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## Alex Von Königsberg

Yeah, you did an awesome job, Verso! Slovenian highways look mint. I can't wait until I hit European straßen this summer 

Just to add my $0.02 about the hardshoulder driving. In mountain areas of Oregon and California, trucks with heavy load often drive on the shoulder with hazards on. I don't know if they are required to do so or if it is simply a mere courtesy, but it really makes life easier for passenger cars especially on a 2-lane motorway.


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## snupix

Fantastic photo series...! :cheers:


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## Verso

*The Vipava Highway (H4, G12)*

The Vipava Highway connects the A1 with the Italian border by Nova Gorica / Gorizia. It's 43 km (27 mi) long, of which 14 km is motorway (built mostly in 1996), 18 km 4-lane expressway (built in the last decade) and 10 km is 2-lane road. Its completion is scheduled for the next year. The motorway and expressway technically don't differ (also both are designated as H4), the only difference is that there's often bora wind along the expressway, therefore the speed limit 100 km/h. The motorway has a recommended speed 100 km/h, but it's allowed to drive 130 km/h. I took the photos 3 days ago.

Interchange Nanos (previously called Razdrto). We're turning right, onto the G12.









Ljubljana - Nanos = 2.7 €.


















The road is very winding and quite deteriorated (not seen on this picture). The future expressway's been under construction for quite some time now, because it's full of viaducts and tunnels.


















Stalking a Montenegrin. 









:cheers:









I miss destination Venice. 






















































Motorway.









I tried to drive the recommended 100 km/h for a minute - unbearable! :lol:













































Prepare 1.5 €. Altogether Ljubljana - Gorizia = 4.2 €.









Exit for the border town Nova Gorica.


















1 km ahead there's a border crossing between Slovenia and Italy, called Vrtojba / Sant'Andrea. In Italy you continue on a rather crappy road  officially designated as RA17 ("RA" stands for "*r*accordo *a*utostradale" = motorway connection), although it's neither a motorway, nor an expressway; it's a 4-lane road with a speed limit 80 km/h, emergency stops and limited access. But it soon merges in the A4 motorway.









:cheers:


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## edolen1

Haha, total Ljubljana - Nova Gorica is actually €2.7, because nobody actually goes through Bazara, only transit traffic and trucks, everybody else gets off at Vogrsko.. 

Nice pics!


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## Rebasepoiss

What are those thingiesD) between the central crash barriers?


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## ChrisZwolle

Those are made so you aren't bothered with headlights of other cars/trucks in the other direction. You see this sometimes in Europe, but i haven't seen it yet in my country.

Why is Údine signed first, and not later nearing the border? They could remove the "Italy" destination and replace it with a normal Italian city (even like Venezia).


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## edolen1

The ones saying Italija are older, since that section was built much earlier than the section which has signs saying Udine. You can also see that the one saying Italija doesn't have a road number on it, which is always put on those signs nowadays.

When they'll get changed they'll say Udine and everything..


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## Verso

edolen1 said:


> Haha, total Ljubljana - Nova Gorica is actually €2.7, because nobody actually goes through Bazara, only transit traffic and trucks, everybody else gets off at Vogrsko..


Haha, you're right!  Then I'll just write "Ljubljana - Gorizia".  Yeah, I remember a sign pointing to Ljubljana in that roundabout in Nova Gorica near your house  in some other direction than Italy, and I thought, why the hell are they in different directions already in Nova Gorica? :lol:

Btw, edolen, do you remember how the motorway (from 1996) was designated before we got the expressway? I don't think it was H4, I don't think we had these H* designations back then.


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## edolen1

It didn't have a designation, it was just a very short section from the border crossing to Šempeter.. I'm not sure of the designation when it was extended to Selo, but when it was extended to Ajdovščina it definitely had H4.. I think with Selo it still didn't have a designation, cuz that was back in the time the A1 was still the A10..


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## Nephasto

Fern said:


> I'd never noticed it. That's probably just a way of saving money! IMO motorways should have a hardshoulder all throughout their length in case a car breaks down.



Well... a standard 3 lane motorway in portugal will have the following measures in width:

inner shoulder + 3 x 3,75m lanes + 3m outer shoulder

If it's a 2 lanes motorway with additional lane for slow traffic its:

inner shoulder + 2 x 3,75m lanes + 3m(or 3,25m... not sure) outer lane for slow vehicles +1m outer shoulder


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## ChrisZwolle

that are quite wide lanes.

We use 3,5m, but 3,2m is common in Urban areas.

We even have extra lanes which are only 2,5m wide. So that lane is hardly used. 
emergency lane = 3m, but that varies from 0 - 5m in some places.


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## Nephasto

^^Yes... usually the motorway lanes are wide here in Portugal, being of 3,75m. 
Only when the base speed of a stretch is under 100km/h or when there is a stretch with much traffic (like a stretch with 4 lanes in each direction) do we use 3,5m.

In Spain for example, they don't use 3,75m, like in the Netherlands... it's 3,5m all the way. And they use 2,5m emergency lanes, which are a bit narrow.


You have 2,5m extra lanes in there?! What for? A truck won't be able to safelly use a 2,5m width lane!


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## edolen1

The lanes in Slovenia are 3.75m wide, with the hard shoulder 2.5m wide. Exit lanes are 3m wide, though, and lanes for slow traffic are 3m wide as well.

Sections with a 100 km/h speed limit are 3.5m wide, though.


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## x-type

nice pics!! finally somebody made a photo of Bazara toll plaza, but it dissapointed me totaly, it looks, khm, crapy.:nuts:


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## ChrisZwolle

Nephasto said:


> You have 2,5m extra lanes in there?! What for? A truck won't be able to safelly use a 2,5m width lane!


Trucks are also no allowed to use those lanes.

They are build as a temporary widening, since all those greenies stop roadimprovement. This 2,5m lane is in the city of Zwolle, i think it is the narrowest lane we have, other extra lanes are wider, and a speed of 100km/h is allowed, but here, only 80 is allowed when the lane is open.

Here are some pics:




































you can see this extra lane (we call it a "plusstrook") it ridiculously narrow, so it is barely used. And the barrier is immediatly adjacent to it. 
I didn't solve the traffic jams either.


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## Fern

Nephasto said:


> Well... a standard 3 lane motorway in portugal will have the following measures in width:
> 
> inner shoulder + 3 x 3,75m lanes + 3m outer shoulder
> 
> If it's a 2 lanes motorway with additional lane for slow traffic its:
> 
> inner shoulder + 2 x 3,75m lanes + 3m(or 3,25m... not sure) outer lane for slow vehicles +1m outer shoulder


Yeah you're right, I think I've seen that system in some parts of some motorways like the A24.
In the UK and Ireland the standard lane width is 3.65m and apparently they are reducing it to 3.5m in some motorways, I assume because they want to add more lanes but there's not enough space.


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## edolen1

Nah, Koper is the main port for Slovenia, because of infrastructure and political reasons. It's bigger than the one in Rijeka, AFAIK..


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## snupix

Anyway, that motorway should be built ASAP. But what are the priority roads in Slovenia that have to be built, apart from the one to Hungary? Everything else is already built (some small parts missing on the A2). It's more political, i would say...


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## renco

Fantastic thread.Generally SLO roads and highways looks amazing.Only if u could speed up a pace 



snupix said:


> Anyway, that motorway should be built ASAP. But what are the priority roads in Slovenia that have to be built, apart from the one to Hungary? Everything else is already built (some small parts missing on the A2). It's more political, i would say...


It is political display no question about that.hno:


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## keber

Priorities:
1 - to complete whole "motorway cross" - should be next year
2 - additional motorway program, but main priorities will probably go to linking Maribor to Gruškovje and new/additional expressway on the coast to Istria. and expressway from Celje to Austria.
3 - some new highways on third-A and fourth development axis. Expressway from Austria (at Dravograd or Mežica) to Croatia at Metlika (third development axis) will be built in full length, but not soon. It will be probably one of the most costliest roads in Slovenia.

Current traffic data (look line no. 126) does not justify building even a two-laned expressway from Rupa to Italy. Few bypasses and modernising some other sections should suffice for quite a long time. Sorry, but many other roads in Slovenia have higher priorities and more importantly much more traffic. Heck, many roads, which have a lot more traffic than let say Rupa - Kozina main road, won't see expressway nor motorway built anytime in the future. If ever.

Nice graphical view of traffic data for 2005
. Now you see, why some connections to Croatia will wait for some time.


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## snupix

Well according to that map you can see that MB-ZG should have higher priority than MB-Hungary, if we look at the traffic... So... 

And I don't understand that nobody's thinking about the future, bc when Croatia joins the EU once, these figures will surely change, especially in freight traffic.

So just to be clear, I respect Slovenia's priorities and wills and it's Slo's right that nobody can change, but nobody can assure me (or 90% of HR) that ignoring road connections to Croatia isn't political...


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## ChrisZwolle

keber said:


> Nice graphical view of traffic data for 2005
> . Now you see, why some connections to Croatia will wait for some time.


Your motorways are so quiet! Nice driving on them, i think there are few traffic jams, even on the Ljubljana ringroad?

Your busiest urban motorway is like our rural motorways :lol: 
However our bordercrossings are quiet too. Mostly freight traffic.


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## keber

snupix said:


> Well according to that map you can see that MB-ZG should have higher priority than MB-Hungary, if we look at the traffic... So...


Yes, but if you look numbers in xls spreadsheet, you'll find, that MB-Hungary has daily 3000 trucks or more. To Gruškovje only 1000. And this is for 2006. Some days MB-Hungary sees more than 5000 trucks daily and this number is increasing very rapidly (in second half of 2004 it rose up to 60%). That's why construction of motorway is speeding up, trucks are the only reason. Few years ago number of trucks was similar to that of Gruškovje / Macelj border crossing and motorway was planned to be completed in 2013. Now they want to complete it 5 years earlier, because situation on main road is becoming critical.



> And I don't understand that nobody's thinking about the future, bc when Croatia joins the EU once, these figures will surely change, especially in freight traffic.


Sure, that's because A2 is being completed next year, and construction of A4 to MB-Gruškovje will start in next weeks. It's not so black as it seems. 



> So just to be clear, I respect Slovenia's priorities and wills and it's Slo's right that nobody can change, but nobody can assure me (or 90% of HR) that ignoring road connections to Croatia isn't political...


You may want to think so, but I very much doubt, that 5000 daily traffic, including 400 truck justifies building brand new motorway, while some parts of Slovenia have traffic of triple or even quadruple of those numbers and won't have motorway or at least expressway for a foreseeable future.


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## edolen1

This April was the first month that saw 100,000 trucks on the main road through Prekmurje. That's an incredible growth, and even with the huge growth taken into account, it was only expected it would reach such a number by the end of 2007. And this is something the locals have to put up with daily, while the road to Gruškovje is only a real traffic jam two months per year. However the section between Ptuj and Maribor is a different story due to daily commuters, and that section will be completed in 2009.

I know it's nice to think it's all political, but I really see no reason why it would be. The Trieste-Rijeka motorway wouldn't serve the Port of Rijeka much, as the main markets for Koper and Rijeka are Central and Eastern Europe, while any envy because of tourism is just ridicolous, tourism does not represent such an important factor in our economy to justify such stupid behaviour.

I do agree however that in the future it will become an important corridor, especially with the economic development further south in the Balkans, but that will not happen for a few years to come. Oh, and on a side note, when will the motorway from Rijeka down to Senj be built?


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## Verso

Great pix, keber! I was gonna do the A2 motorway (LJ-ZG) as well, but then my hard disc was destroyed! :bash: :gunz: :wallbash:  :mad2: :evil: hno: :rant:


Anyway, I'll still take photos of it, but in the other direction.


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## ChrisZwolle

Nice route: Ljubljana - Zagreb - Maribor - Ljubljana. See some motorways in the other direction, and i'm not sure if i seen pics of the Croatian A2 Zagreb - Slovenia yet.


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## edolen1

Make sure you go and see the new Puch Bridge, if you do!


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## rimorski

edolen1 said:


> Nah, Koper is the main port for Slovenia, because of infrastructure and political reasons. It's bigger than the one in Rijeka, AFAIK..


hehehehe that isn't true!!!!:nuts: :lol: 
port of Rijeka IS bigger, deeper, has more capacity ofcourse....i mean...don't I have to count it for you? Rijeka: ( Mlaka-Baroš-Delta-Brajdica ) -Bakar-Brščica-Raša-Dina-Omišalj-future expansions at Zagrebacka Obala, Brajdica amd LNG terminal probably in Omisalj. Koper will never be able to even physically reach that.


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## Verso

^ Koper has more traffic.


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## rimorski

There is nothin wrong if they compete a little  now....
Cos traffic through Port Rijeka is rising every month, that is why port needs to be expanded, amd why new double track railway towards Budapest and Wienna will soon be under construction, money for that has been secured.


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## Alex Von Königsberg

Could someone tell me why on the picture below Višnja Gora is put above Žužemberk and Krka even though it is closer than the latter two? 










P.S. Out of curiosity, Višnja Gora translates as Cherry Mountain or Tall Mountain?


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## snupix

Chris1491 said:


> and i'm not sure if i seen pics of the Croatian A2 Zagreb - Slovenia yet.


I think x-type has some plans to change that 



> P.S. Out of curiosity, Višnja Gora translates as Cherry Mountain or Tall Mountain?


Cherry


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## Alex Von Königsberg

_[off topic]_ 
In Poland and Czechoslovakia (old habits die hard) I could understand ~80% of written text and only 20% of speech. Never been to former Yugoslavia though, but I am wondering how different Slovenian and Croatian dialects are?


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## Verso

^^ If you're having in mind the Slovenian and Croatian LANGUAGES, we understand each other. 



Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Could someone tell me why on the picture below Višnja Gora is put above Žužemberk and Krka even though it is closer than the latter two?


If you've noticed this on previous photos, such "messy" signs with distances are very common in Slovenia. The thing is that Žužemberk and Krka are in different directions (not here yet, of course) than Višnja Gora (and Ljubljana). I'm not sure if you know where Žužemberk and Krka are, but look at some bigger towns on previous photos, and if they aren't really situated close to the highway we're driving on, they will be listed kinda separately from others, but one by another, that's why also this "mess". You see this often in Germany and elsewhere, "just" that there would be a line drawn between them, so it doesn't look so messy. And possibly also different road numbers written.


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## ChrisZwolle

Maybe the lower three destination exit earlier than Ljubljana. However, i think that there are too many small towns on the distance signs. The rest of signage is good though.


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## SouthernEuropean

very interesting and some amazing photos from the photographers,i liked the Slovenian highways...it's so nice and cool to see other parts of Europe from a passenger's seat:cheers:


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## keber

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Could someone tell me why on the picture below Višnja Gora is put above Žužemberk and Krka even though it is closer than the latter two?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. Out of curiosity, Višnja Gora translates as Cherry Mountain or Tall Mountain?


Distance signs are very messy in Slovenia. hno:
Example:
This section:

and this section (about 2 km west from previous picture)

is actually the same and was opened same time, built by the same company. They lead to different direction, hovewer you can clearly see the difference on both signs. I don't know the cause for this, but there are no clear standards for signs in Slovenia. Designers do more or less themselves, what they think it should be. Even motorway interchanges are usually labeled only 1000 m before actual interchange, that is only 30 before deciding next destination.

There was somehow famous sign on interchange Gabrk (A1 and A3), where main destination was labeled to go to Koper, Portorož and Škocjan. Škocjan is a village of about 10 people. There were jokes in newspapers, that we have the smallest village on the world to be put on motorway interchange destination sign. :lol: Later they removed Škocjan.

Maybe this is connected to typical Slovenian smallness, so we have to do everything to look big and very important.


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## Verso

^^ Even fonts are different. :doh: And if you haven't noticed, E-road numbers on signs in Slovenia are a complete mess! On Ljubljana-Maribor motorway (E57) you also see E58 and E85. :nuts: Or E61 where it isn't at all (the southern Ljubljana bypass), or E571 instead of E751. :doh: Just check my photos, and you'll see. P.S.: I even noticed "A10" on one of new signs! :lol:


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## SouthernEuropean

guys don't worry these are details,easily fixed,fact is you have nice,clean modern highways,you can change the signs overnight.oh and btw of course stuff like these are in Greece too


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## edolen1

Verso said:


> ^^ Even fonts are different. :doh: And if you haven't noticed, E-road numbers on signs in Slovenia are a complete mess! On Ljubljana-Maribor motorway (E57) you also see E58 and E85. :nuts: Or E61 where it isn't at all (the southern Ljubljana bypass), or E571 instead of E751. :doh: Just check my photos, and you'll see. P.S.: I even noticed "A10" on one of new signs! :lol:


Not only the signs, try looking at maps by international cartographers.. I doubt I've ever seen them getting the road numbers right. Some even have the numbers as they were 15+ years ago..


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## Alex Von Königsberg

I did some editing to show how I would design that sign


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## kulani

lovely highways, what's the speed limit like.


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## keber

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> I did some editing to show how I would design that sign


That would look very nice (apart from road number, which should be in yellow/black combination). But already some clear design standards on all distance signs would suffice. Authorities will need to do something about that.


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## Verso

Yeah, I like that design very much (except for the color, yes; btw, in Slovenia red-colored road signs depict local roads (this one is regional), but you rarely see it). I'd only put Ivančna Gorica at the bottom, it's close to the A2, but it's also where you go off for Žužemberk and Krka, so I'd more like it to be at the bottom, as those 7 km is the smallest distance of all.



kulani said:


> lovely highways, what's the speed limit like.


Thanks; the speed limit on motorways is 130 km/h (80 mph), expressways 100 km/h (62 mph), 'ordinary' roads outside built-up areas 90 km/h (55 mph), and inside built-up areas the general speed limit is 50 km/h (31 mph).


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## radi6404

Hi Verso, you aren´t much arround last time, isn´t it?


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## edolen1

Yeah, plus I'd erase Krka from the distance sign, it's just too small of a village to have it. I'd rather add Litija or something.


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## Verso

radi6404 said:


> Hi Verso, you aren´t much arround last time, isn´t it?





Verso said:


> Great pix, keber! I was gonna do the A2 motorway (LJ-ZG) as well, but then my hard disc was destroyed! :bash: :gunz: :wallbash:  :mad2: :evil: hno: :rant:


:no:


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## rimorski

I just love this gallery-tunell-shaped structure, it is so nice and very long!!!!:cheers: :cheers:


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## pilotos

Well its not that long, but yes its really beautiful and unique, it drawned my attention immediately.


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## rimorski

It is not that long, but it is considerably longer than it's counterparts in Croatia.


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## Verso

^ You'll also get one such sooner or later. :cheers:


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## edolen1

I drove in it yesterday, really amazing!


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## pilotos

Btw its a cut & cover tunnel right?
Also i love the way that they are "building" the stones in the mountain to protect the road from a possible landslide.


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## keber

^^ Yes, cut & cover. And it is wide and high enough for possible expansion of motorway to 6 lanes.


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## pilotos

Erm but it has 3 lanes per direction right now, doesn't it :?


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## ChrisZwolle

looks more like a narrow shoulder.


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## keber

It is only a lane for slow vehicles on ascent and not enough wide for ordinary motorway traffic lane. Necessary expansion to full 3+3 lanes at current traffic growth is still 30 years away.


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## ChrisZwolle

2x3 is unlikely to be necessery for that motorway. You need like 90.000 vehicles/day for that. No road even near Ljubljana has that amount of traffic.


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## keber

At current growth this motorway will reach 60.000 vehicles/day in 2037. But traffic growth will increase, when Croatia, Serbia and other countries join EU. Still I doubt, that expansion will ever be necessary.


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## ChrisZwolle

I do think traffic will increase, the road links 2 major cities nearby.

However, experience in Western Europe learns that bordercrossing motorways are usually very quiet. The busiest Dutch bordercrossing Motorway is the A16/E19 which connects Antwerp with Rotterdam, but it still has less than 60.000 vehicles a day, but it connects a hell more people and transportation than Ljubljana/Zagreb.


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## ChrisZwolle

The most quiet Dutch bordercrossing motorway has only 6.000 vehicles a day :lol: that's nothing.


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## Rebasepoiss

Chris1491 said:


> 2x3 is unlikely to be necessery for that motorway. You need like 90.000 vehicles/day for that. No road even near Ljubljana has that amount of traffic.


So when there is like 80.000 cars per day, it's OK to have just 2x2 lanes? :nuts: I mean, I really wouldn't like to drive there.


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## ChrisZwolle

^^^ We have a lot of such roads. Even over 120.000 vehicles a day on 2x2 lanes. But that's nuts. I think it's a good thing to widen to 2x3 lanes with 80.000 vehicles/day. 

But roads with very much truck traffic or weaving might be nice to widen earlier than 80.000, in France or Portugal, they even widen to 2x3 lanes with 50.000! That's pure luxury in Dutch views.


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## BA

I was in Slovenia before with a fortnight. I saw how it is built the motorway between Maribor and Pince. When is it conveyed in 2008?


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## Verso

^^ http://www.avtoceste.si/Default.aspx?id=83&lang=1 "Predaja prometu" = opening for traffic, "predvidoma" = probably, "konec" = end, "leta" = in year. You can also click "English", but you have no specific dates there, only for the entire route, which is scheduled for completion in the end of 2008.


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## x-type

question for Chris: how would you solve our problem in Croatia: 2 months more then 100 000 vehicles per day, 10 months less then 10 000?


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## ChrisZwolle

^^^ That's a typical holiday problem. The French have this problem too. They just widen the road. Tourism is worth that.


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## edolen1

Yes, we have the same problem, but on a much smaller scale. Oh, and about those 2x3 motorways, some sections in Ljubljana have almost 70,000 vehicles per day and increasing, so yes, 6-laned motorways are going to become a necessity very soon in some parts of the Ljubljana ringroad.


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## Verso

^ The entire Ring, I'd say, plus between the Ring and Lj.-Šentjakob (exit for Litija on the A1 for Maribor), that's hell just as well.


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## edolen1

Indeed, but the western Ring is the first to get widened, and probably also the new section between Koseze and Šentvid. It's already made for a (provisional) 6-lane motorway as the hard shoulders are the same width as the lanes, it only needs a new hard shoulder should it ever be expanded.


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## BA

Verso said:


> ^^ http://www.avtoceste.si/Default.aspx?id=83&lang=1 "Predaja prometu" = opening for traffic, "predvidoma" = probably, "konec" = end, "leta" = in year. You can also click "English", but you have no specific dates there, only for the entire route, which is scheduled for completion in the end of 2008.


I saw this sheet earlier already, but there are not accurate dates really.
Thanks Verso


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## keber

In 2008 there are parliamentary elections in Slovenia, probably in November. Now you have the date.:lol:


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## radi6404

what a motorway is neccesary for 20 000 vehicles a day?


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## edolen1

2x2, definitely.


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## Verso

*The Lower Carniolan Highway (A2, H1)*

Yeah, we're going to the Lower Carniola (Dolenjska)! :booze: Keber has already done this highway, but I took pictures of it in the other direction, hehe. This highway runs from Ljubljana to Croatia, in the direction of the Balkans and Asia Minor. Its total length is 105 km (65 mi), of which there's currently 84 km of motorway (in three pieces ) and 21 km of 2-lane expressway. It's supposed to be completed in 2009. The first 20 km of motorway from Ljubljana were built about 15 years ago and the rest in the last decade. It's part of the E70 and the X. Corridor. I took the photos today.

So this time I started in the southeastern corner of the Ljubljana Ring, at the interchange Malence, between the A1/A2 (southern Ljubljana bypass) and A1 (eastern Ljubljana bypass), turning right, onto the A2 motorway.
Just 135 km (84 mi) between the Slovenian and Croatian capitals. 









Turning right.




































Exit "Grosuplje-hotel" closed.









Roadworks.









Bifurcation, similar to a bigger one in Macedonia.













































Steep slope at the exit.









By the other side again.









Exit for Ivančna Gorica, Črnomelj, ... This road is actually the shortest (and cheaper) road connection between Ljubljana and Split.


















1.7 €, now.






















































End of motorway.









2-lane H1 expressway.



























The new Renault Twingos on their way from Novo mesto, from their only factory in the world. 


















On the A2 again. This section by Novo mesto is Slovenia's newest motorway.









The western exit for Novo mesto (New Town ).




































Exit for road leading to the White Carniola (Bela Krajina). Hmm, where is sign for Karlovac, as it used to be on the previous expressway? They obviously decided it was better to use the motorway via Zagreb. I agree. :cheers:









Lol, what an exit.









On the H1 again.









The asphalt between Novo mesto and the motorway for Zagreb is a catastrophe, so this is better than 100 km/h.




































A "good" old rest area.









Motorway until Belgrade, Niš, Leskovac. :cheers:









"Samostan" = monastery. Anyone interested? 









A messy sign. Since Celje is further away from Krško, and they exit at the same interchange, it should be written before it. And certainly before Smednik, which exits sooner.









Roadworks.









"Naslednja" = next.









Thank you, EU. 









Thanks also to Slovenia. :lol:









Aha, now we have a correct order. 









Krško on the fourth place. :doh: Drnovo toll booth in the back (1.8 €). Ljubljana - Croatia = 3.5 €.


















Krško nuclear power plant, Slovenia's only.



























"Grad" = castle.









Such a lovely section. :hug:




































8, 8, 8.  Just 32 km left to Zagreb.









Extraterrestrials? :lol:




































"Carina" = customs.









I'm taking the last exit before the border.









In the back you can see the border crossing Obrežje/Bregana between Slovenia and Croatia. In Croatia you continue on the A3 motorway.









That's all folks. I've run out of highways.  Long live depression! :nocrook:


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Damn, I wish the USA had the Slovenian motorway signage. It is so systematic and clear.


----------



## radi6404

Verso said:


> ^ Oh that; I have no idea why they are lighter than driving lanes! I've also noticed it, and I'd also like them to be black (the same as driving lanes; when new, of course), no idea!


don´t worry, on some bulgarian motorways they also did that, BUT not on the Struma motorway!!!


----------



## Nephasto

I actually like the different couloring between the driving lanes and the emergency lane.
It makes the distinction between the 2 more clear, so it's good.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Verso said:


> ^ Oh that; I have no idea why they are lighter than driving lanes! I've also noticed it, and I'd also like them to be black (the same as driving lanes; when new, of course), no idea!


Because when you repave the motorway, you don't need to repave the emergency lane, because it's not used by regular traffic.


----------



## x-type

Nephasto said:


> I actually like the different couloring between the driving lanes and the emergency lane.
> It makes the distinction between the 2 more clear, so it's good.


kay: 

i have noticed this mostly on new motorways, not old ones


----------



## Verso

Chris1491 said:


> Because when you repave the motorway, you don't need to repave the emergency lane, because it's not used by regular traffic.


What do you mean? You'd have to repave it, if it was 'colored' the same as driving lanes? :? I'm not into pavement, but I guess what you're saying is, that they are separated, and when they aren't, it's kinda impossible to repave just part of the pavement?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Maybe they only repaved the driving lanes, instead of including the emergency lane. But that's just a theory. It's also possible that they use inferior pavement for the shoulder, because normally there ain't traffic on it. It's a way to save money.


----------



## Verso

^^ Has to be the latter (as far as Slovenia is concerned). Here we can clearly see the difference on Slovenia's NEWEST motorway (about 1 year old; I know, old for being the newest :hammer:


----------



## radi6404

Verso said:


> ^^ Has to be the latter (as far as Slovenia is concerned). Here we can clearly see the difference on Slovenia's NEWEST motorway (about 1 year old; I know, old for being the newest :hammer:


Yes, it´s a way to save money, at least the crashbarriers are shiny.


----------



## vid

It also distinguishes the driving surface from the shoulder. You'd be surprised at how often solid white lines confuse idiot drivers. :|


----------



## Verso

If it saves money, I think it's good; I mean, who needs that lane anyway? I've even seen (in poorer countries) gravel emergency lanes, which do just fine in case you need to stop over, but it can be very dangerous in case you (unintentionally) find yourself there by high speed for whatever reason. Not to mention the claustrophobic feeling..


----------



## radi6404

Verso said:


> If it saves money, I think it's good; I mean, who needs that lane anyway? I've even seen (in poorer countries) gravel emergeny lanes, which do just fine in case you need to stop over, but it can be very dangerous in case you (unintentionally) find yourself there by high speed for whatever reason. Not to mention the claustrophobic feeling..


If you think that way yes, but if you think of the design of the motorway i think they have to be black also. I think new motorways must look impresive.


----------



## Nephasto

radi6404 said:


> If you think that way yes, but if you think of the design of the motorway i think they have to be black also. I think new motorways must look impresive.


If you think of the design of the motorway i think they have to be black also?? What does that mean? There's obviously nothing in the parameters for building motorways that states that the emergency lanes have to be as black as the driving lanes.
A new motorway must do it's job providing a safe and fast ride... not look impressive.
And personally, as I've refered, I prefer the diferent colours between the driving lanes and the emergency lane. I think it look mor impressive. :colgate:

The pavement on the emergency lane (shoulders) obviously doesn't have to be as thick as in the driving lanes. There would be no point in being as thick, besides wasting money.


----------



## Verso

Black asphalt gets grey with time anyway.


----------



## Verso

Nephasto said:


> The pavement on the emergency lane (shoulders) obviously doesn't have to be as thick as in the driving lanes. There would be no point in being as thick, besides wasting money.


Yes, radi, some of this money is from EU, it can be better spent in Bulgaria! :colgate:


----------



## radi6404

Verso said:


> The black asphalt gets grey with time anyway.


In bulgaria they rehabilitated the E79 two lamed highway to greece six years ago and the asphalt is stil as black as it was at the beginning, i can show pics if i find, i wonder myself how the asphalt losts so long keeping black.


----------



## radi6404

Verso said:


> Yes, radi, some of this money is from EU, it can be better spent in Bulgaria! :colgate:


I don´t think it costs the world, and people in bulgaria want their new motorways to look impressive as they have waited soo long for them.


----------



## Verso

Please show those pics, I'd like to see that miracle, 6 years black, sounds impossible! In the Bulgarian thread, of course.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Damn those shiny crash barriers already! :rofl: 

Why should crash barriers be shiny anyway? I think for the increased safety they should be painted in black and white. And what's the deal with being impressive? A good motorway should be well designed, have a decent pavement and clear durable marking (preferably German) - that's all as far as I am concerned. I would be more than happy if in Russia they build more motorways, even if they all will be ugly concrete. As for Bulgaria, they are doing way better than Russia, but still a lot of corruption exists that prevents even faster development.

P.S. Sorry for hijacking this topic.


----------



## radi6404

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Damn those shiny crash barriers already! :rofl:
> 
> Why should crash barriers be shiny anyway? I think for the increased safety they should be painted in black and white. And what's the deal with being impressive? A good motorway should be well designed, have a decent pavement and clear durable marking (preferably German) - that's all as far as I am concerned. I would be more than happy if in Russia they build more motorways, even if they all will be ugly concrete. As for Bulgaria, they are doing way better than Russia, but still a lot of corruption exists that prevents even faster development.
> 
> P.S. Sorry for hijacking this topic.


I like when motorways look impressive, with what can a country better show it´s social state (or maybe not) than with roads, good roads always give you the feeling you are in a modern country, old bad looking roads give you the you are in a rather poor country.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

radi6404 said:


> In bulgaria they rehabilitated the E79 two lamed highway to greece six years ago and the asphalt is stil as black as it was at the beginning, i can show pics if i find, i wonder myself how the asphalt losts so long keeping black.


Oh that can lasts decades before it turns grey. The E79 can't be that busy.


----------



## radi6404

Chris1491 said:


> Oh that can lasts decades before it turns grey. The E79 can't be that busy.


It has 20 000 cars a day.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

yeah, that's nothing.


----------



## radi6404

Chris1491 said:


> yeah, that's nothing.


I still find it great that it is so black.


----------



## keber

I'm surprised, that in those threads there are almost no civil engineers.:nuts:

Asphalt on emergency lanes is inferior in quality than on traffic lanes, usually to save cost and on the other hand it is also not needed. Upper layer of asphalt on motorway traffic lanes has the best quality and stays more or less the same color the whole life of motorway (before next repavement). This is because it has a lot of traffic, and vehicles leave tire parts on asphalt which shield asphalt from destructive UV rays.
Because there's no traffic on emergency lanes, there's no need to put expensive asphalt layer there. Also soon after opening it loses dark gray color ant turns light gray. Exact color of asphalt depends on used stone aggregate (which is peculiar to one country/region) and bitumen sort.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ In Belgium, they are considering putting concrete on the right lane (because of the heavy truck traffic), and ordinary asphalt on the left lane(s). Concrete has a much longer durability, and with asphalt you get heavy track-formation when there is a lot of truck traffic (and believe me, in Belgium there is a LOT of truck traffic).


----------



## Verso

keber said:


> I'm surprised, that in those threads there are almost no civil engineers.:nuts:


Be happy anyone is looking at this subforum; before you could see one or two members looking at the same time. :tongue2:


----------



## radi6404

keber said:


> I'm surprised, that in those threads there are almost no civil engineers.:nuts:
> 
> Asphalt on emergency lanes is inferior in quality than on traffic lanes, usually to save cost and on the other hand it is also not needed. Upper layer of asphalt on motorway traffic lanes has the best quality and stays more or less the same color the whole life of motorway (before next repavement). This is because it has a lot of traffic, and vehicles leave tire parts on asphalt which shield asphalt from destructive UV rays.
> Because there's no traffic on emergency lanes, there's no need to put expensive asphalt layer there. Also soon after opening it loses dark gray color ant turns light gray. Exact color of asphalt depends on used stone aggregate (which is peculiar to one country/region) and bitumen sort.


it´s nto needed but fact is that it looks better so i am lucky to see when they make it the same color than the rest of the motorway, on the new German A94 they made it the same color than the rest of the motorway. I said it because i don´t want always mention the Struma motorway.


----------



## keber

On some newer motorway ascents, there is third lane in concrete. Not all, because there are clearly too few design standards, so decision how new motorway will look and be built stands mostly in hands of different projective companies.

But it's not wise to put one lane in concrete and other in asphalt the whole way over motorway. Materials are too different and deformations wouldn't be equal, which would lead to deteriorating asphalt lane much sooner than otherwise.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

keber said:


> But it's not wise to put one lane in concrete and other in asphalt the whole way over motorway. Materials are too different and deformations wouldn't be equal, which would lead to deteriorating asphalt lane much sooner than otherwise.


Exactly my thoughts, but this is what Belgium considers. (source: inside information from Dutch autosnelwegen forum).


----------



## keber

Belgians should check here. Even after only few years after opening, different deformations on asphalt-concrete contact are clearly noticeable.


----------



## Nephasto

keber said:


> I'm surprised, that in those threads there are almost no civil engineers.:nuts:


I'm getting close to being one. 




radi6404 said:


> it´s nto needed but fact is that it looks better so i am lucky to see when they make it the same color than the rest of the motorway, on the new German A94 they made it the same color than the rest of the motorway. I said it because i don´t want always mention the Struma motorway.



That doesn't have to do with the thickness of the pavement. In that german motorway (as in the Struma motorway) the pavement isn't as thick in the emergency lanes as in the driving lanes (just like in the rest of the world's roads).


Here in Portugal for example you don't notice any change in colour between the driving lanes and the mergency lane. Example:










What is used in here (and I guess that in the majority of roads in the rest of the world) is that the upper layer (the most expensive) covers all the road (including driving lanes and emergency lane), but the lower layers (that give the necessary strength to the pavement) aren't prolonged all the way into the emergency lanes. So the pavement in the emergency lanes doesn't have all the lower lanes that are needed for the driving lanes pavements.

You can see in theis photo of this brand new spanish motorway that the upper part of the pavement (one obviously can't see how are the lower layers) is the same in the driving lanes and emergency lane, as there's no visible distinction between driving lanes and emergency lane, apart from the painting marking the lanes):











As for the different couloring, either it's because a diferent upper layer is used (which appear to be the case in those Slovenian motorways) or it's just because vehicles leave tire parts on asphalt which shield asphalt from destructive UV rays, like keber said. And, like he said, that will vary from pavement to pavement.


----------



## radi6404

The motorway pics you showed are very good, very impressive new motorways. The crashbarriers of the second pic of the Spanish motorway are almost the same as on the Struma, the Struma motorway oens are just a bit bigger.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

^^ Someone has got a fetish for crash barriers :lol: I don't even want to ask you what you think of American motorways that often don't have any crash barriers at all.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Lanes in rural US regions are generally far apart. In Europe, they don't want to take so much space. And European rural motorways are generally much busier than US rural interstates.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

i bought a SLO/HR/BIH road Atlas from Marco Polo. The first time i saw a road atlas of this region, i immediatly bought it. It's quite detailed and up to date.  I also got one from Poland.


----------



## Verso

^ Great.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I hate maps, they're impractical and get ripped in mutiple pieces often. Especially when you are using it in your car, or even worse, when your girlfriend is touching it.









I prefer road atlases instead. Especially spiral bindings.


----------



## radi6404

Chris1491 said:


> I hate maps, they're impractical and get ripped in mutiple pieces often. Especially when you are using it in your car, or even worse, when your girlfriend is touching it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I prefer road atlases instead. Especially spiral bindings.


Me too, but i prefer navigation the most  .


----------



## ChrisZwolle

navigation makes people lazy and dumb. Nothing beats some good (map) knowledge. I can drive all the way to München without checking any map


----------



## Verso

^ And then? You haven't heard of Salzburg or Innsbruck yet? 



Chris1491 said:


>


Chris, you don't need your own smilie, SSC has it already. 



radi6404 said:


> Me too, but i prefer navigation the most  .


:d :lol:

Btw, I like maps more than atlases, cuz you have a country in one piece, but atlases are indeed much more practical, and don't get torn.


----------



## KHS

Chris1491 said:


> Where is Verso? I haven't seen him in like 2 months.


Its summer. He is probably at Croatian Coast...


----------



## Realek

I have a question
I'm sure I red something about this, but I can't remember what exactly and where... When is the E-61 (coming from Kranj) supposed to be connected to the Ljubljana ring and will it still be connected to Celoveska Cesta?


----------



## keber

It should happen at the end of this year, but problems with main constructor company have moved opening date to April or May 2008. It will be connected at first only one side with Celovška cesta (so as it is today) and about year later connection tunnel will be opened, so the southbound junction will be within the main tunnel.


----------



## OettingerCroat

yah that part has always puzzled me too, hope you guys get it done ASAP

:cheers2:


----------



## Realek

@ keber

Sounds good!

thnx


----------



## amst

Motorway Trieste - Ljubljana!










http://img256.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img4905kc3.jpg


----------



## Verso

lpioe said:


> Superb thread, very good job Verso :applause: :applause:





Realek said:


> I finally got the time to go through this thread from the beginning to the end in one go
> 
> Great job and great freeways and roads all around in Slovenia :cheers: Of course, 90% of the merit goes to Verso :master:


Thanks, guys! :cheers1:



Realek said:


> BTW Verso, what exactly happened to your HDD? I'm interested in the subject... Can you provide some details?


It was burnt, I don't know how else to explain it.





P.S.: Hi!


----------



## wyqtor

Welcome back Verso! Where were you?


----------



## Verso

^^ Thanks; umm, do we know each other?


----------



## wyqtor

Not really, but I followed your photo series of Slovenian motorways with great interest, even though I wasn't posting much back then.
Radi mentioned you, I was wondering if you spent your vacantion around Blagoevgrad as he implied because the rest of us want to see photos of signs on the Struma motorway (which is a bit overhyped on this forum  , considering the small number of photos)!


----------



## Verso

^^ What? That was a joke! :rofl: (I'm not saying Bulgaria isn't worth visiting! Or the Struma for that matter. )


----------



## SmarterChild

Verso said:


> ^^ Thanks; umm, do we know each other?


lol, u kidding? You're famous around here. 

Btw, welcome back and thanks for this thread.


----------



## radi6404

Great to see you back, Verso


----------



## Verso

Man, I'll even become cocky now, or wha?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Hey Verso, what's up! It's been a long time


----------



## Verso

^^ Yeah, kinda.  It's great to see you guys again... and of course, radi. :colgate:


----------



## radi6404

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=473858&page=14

Check it out verso, see the real thing, which kind looks simialr to slovenian motorways


----------



## Verso

^^ Superb! 



And now some "road" pictures from Slovenia from yesterday:


Roads or rivers?!




























The first rough estimates of the damage count in a couple of hundred million euros! For a country of our size... hno:


----------



## Realek

Hey Verso long time no see  Welcome back! You better have a lot of new pics...


About your HDD. What do you mean burnt? The electronics? And if so, wasn't you able to save the data?


BTW very sad to hear about the floods


----------



## radi6404

the forum missed you, man


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's true, but there are so many non-motorway tunnels in the Alps which have this traffic volume. 

But i hope they will add a second tube too


----------



## Verso

Chriszwolle said:


> That's true, but there are so many non-motorway tunnels in the Alps which have this traffic volume.


That's why I'm affraid it won't get built so soon. Even we have more important projects to complete, let alone Austria with quite many important single-tube tunnels to expand.


----------



## ELLIN

Actually these roads of Slovenia reminds me some past projects of Europe....2 zones and a half emergency???
they are tottaly small...i dont see something important than that they are new....thats why the south Balkans are connected with North Europe from Egnatia odos of North Greece via fast ferries from adriatic sea to Bari and then via Italy you can go everywhere......


----------



## ELLIN

Verso said:


> ^^ Superb!
> 
> 
> 
> And now some "road" pictures from Slovenia from yesterday:
> 
> 
> Roads or rivers?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first rough estimates of the damage count in a couple of hundred million euros! For a country of our size... hno:


Dont be bothered Verso fires are WORST


----------



## Nephasto

ELLIN's post should be delleted.


----------



## ELLIN

Nephasto said:


> ELLIN's post should be delleted.


Nephasto tell me why and i will delete them my self


----------



## Nephasto

^^Because it's completelly of topic and pure and simply a provocation.
Probably because you're jealous of Slovenian motorways and the attencion they are gettin in this thread.


----------



## ELLIN

Nephasto said:


> ^^Because it's completelly of topic and pure and simply a provocation.
> Probably because you're jealous of Slovenian motorways and the attencion they are gettin in this thread.


no..i cant be jealious cause i think the photos of the motoways above are better....jealious of what???? :lol:
Nephasto with all my repsect you are making a mistake....you are right that maybe was something out of this topic....but believe me i dint do it in a negative way....i just have some open cases with Verso on the subject motorways and economic development.....
Nephasto dont let me do a topic about Greece highways or even no to be missunrestand about Portuguese...i just expressed my opinion that they are really small.......they could do it bigger and this is something that will help all the balkans not just Slovenia cause the highways connecting the sounth balkans with west Europe are a big problem....
Making some critisism is allways negative..all we have to scream wow!!!
I cant sorry.....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Please remain ontopic: Slovenian motorways. There are other Greek and Portuguese threads.


----------



## Verso

ELLIN said:


> i just have some open cases with Verso on the subject motorways


Really? I didn't know that. Thanks for pictures of Greek motorways, but they are here.


----------



## ELLIN

oups!!!!yes....
Im new in skyscrapercity i have an excuse:lol:
No offence!!I will take care(delete these pcs)


----------



## wyqtor

@Ellin, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, but Slovenian motorways are some of the better ones you can find in Europe.

And I remind you that you aren't quite in a position to brag about how the Greek motorway network is superior to the Slovenian one, when in fact it also has a major gap and bottleneck on the Tempi valley between Athens and Thessaloniki (the 2 largest cities).


----------



## Nephasto

ELLIN said:


> Actually these roads of Slovenia reminds me some past projects of Europe....2 zones and a half emergency???
> they are tottaly small...


Explain please.
I don't get what you mean. :dunno:


----------



## ELLIN

wyqtor said:


> @Ellin, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, but Slovenian motorways are some of the better ones you can find in Europe.
> 
> And I remind you that you aren't quite in a position to brag about how the Greek motorway network is superior to the Slovenian one, when in fact it also has a major gap and bottleneck on the Tempi valley between Athens and Thessaloniki (the 2 largest cities).


well spot critisism...but keep in mind that Tempi is one of the most difficut problems world wide....actually due to the erathquake landscape...the surface is moving 50cm a year..whatever you make there you have to rebuild it after 5 years...we hav the same problem at the national road out of Athens at malacasa ...where the new national road it is "survive" on a moving landscape under...but pay attention at Tempi right now..the project is amazing and in 3 yeras the problem wil be sold....
Well i think that these roads are small....i believe in future they will stacked from traffic easy...Slovenia has small population and maybe is ideal but what is going to happen when Kroatia,Montenegro and Albania use in the future these roads to go North....many times you can find traffic in the national road of Greece from Athens to Thessaloniki which in most of its parts has 4 lanes and a half emergency
.....
actually slovenian roads reminds me egnatia at north Greece....
In conclusion i have to say that some countries like Netherlands for example(amazing highways) a construction of a road is a pice of cake due to the landscape.....and in Greece .....a project that needs years of preparations....due to the landscape conditions.
Slovenian motorways gives the impression of the well develop structure,but not an impression of an expensive structure(signs by the streets,not a really safe midle-lane-and not planted- bettwen the 2 roads...i believe that if you make a big motorway (4 lines)connects south with north and the gates of the country with Italy on the north and Kroatia on the south you country will have a lot to earn as a main passing area bettwen south and north Europe....
A question.....
How you pay for a toll if you want to use the national main highway????


----------



## wyqtor

^^Why not continue this discussion in the Greek motorways thread  , eh?


----------



## mojaBL

ELLIN said:


> i just expressed my opinion that they are really small.......they could do it bigger and this is something that will help all the balkans not just Slovenia cause the *highways connecting the sounth balkans with west Europe are a big problem*....


well it is not. u can go Thessaloníki, Skopje, Nis, Belgrade, Zagreb, Ljubljana etc. and almost everything is a highway.


----------



## ELLIN

wyqtor said:


> ^^Why not continue this discussion in the Greek motorways thread  , eh?


I agree....i didnt want to interupt actually


----------



## pmaciej7

Hello everyone! That's me again  !
This is my first post on this thread, but it was only a question of time, when i visit Slovenian site. And i see the same old crew. 
So, i have some questions:
1. When will they open missing parts of A2 (Ljubljana-Karavankentunnel)? This summer i needed 2,5 hours to travel a distance of 70 km, because of trafficjams on Ljubliana ringroad and then at Radovljica. That was ridiculous waste of time!
2. I saw many roadmaps of Slovenia. Last part of A2 was predicted to be open in 2000, then 2002, 2005 and 2007. Why it takes so long? What caused such delay?


EDIT : I found the answers...


----------



## pmaciej7

Forgive me, but i just could't refrain from commenting:


Chriszwolle said:


> I hate maps, they're impractical and get ripped in mutiple pieces often. Especially when you are using it in your car, or even worse, when your girlfriend is touching it. I prefer road atlases instead. Especially spiral bindings.





Verso said:


> I like maps more than atlases, cuz you have a country in one piece, but atlases are indeed much more practical, and don't get torn.





radi6404 said:


> i prefer navigation the most  .





snupix said:


> NEVER! I think it's idiotic that a computer has to lead me. It's much more fun with a (preferrably Michelin) map, choosing the best and most interesting way, stopping at crossroads and looking at the map etc...Although I'm sure I could get to any known town or city in Europe without any map


I also prefer road atlases. I think it is great fun to plan new trip with a real piece of printed paper. Viamichelin (however it's the best and helpful roadplanner) or Mappy or others will not give you such pleasure, will simply make you lazy. 

I use 2004 Marco Polo Europe Atlas 1:750.000 & 1:1.500.000 (scandinavian part). It's enough detailed to plan a long trip and to have an orientation while driving. Now i'm looking to buy a new one, but new edition is printed on worse paper and has a stoopid vertical division. 

Shell atlases are also good. I don't like all the atlases with green motorways (for example Copernicus).

Spiral bindings are good, if you change your atlas every year. It also depends on quality. If atlas is printed on a thin paper, it may not last even one year.

I don't use navigation, i'm too old  .

Guys, now i see we should start a new thread: About all and about nothing, and post there anything we want to talk about.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I have 28 road atlases, from all over the world, from South Africa to California, from Thailand to Russia, from Germany to Spain, and from the United States to Malaysia. 

My oldest is a 1987 Rand McNally USA road atlas, the newest a 2008 Rand McNally USA road atlas (large spiral).


----------



## Verso

^^ She should be in retirement home anyway.


----------



## snupix

Awesome!


----------



## radi6404

Verso is dumb


----------



## Verso

wow


----------



## BiH-x

Beats being a whoreson I guess. :dunno:

Slovenian motorways look awesome kay:


----------



## Nephasto

BiH-x said:


> Beats being a whoreson I guess. :dunno:


:rofl:


----------



## Verso

BiH-x said:


> Beats being a whoreson I guess. :dunno:


Being dumb I take as a compliment.



BiH-x said:


> Slovenian motorways look awesome kay:


They could be better, but thanks.


----------



## Jonesy55

Is the Ljubljana-Gorenjska-Austria motorway finished yet?

Last time I was there they were still working on it and it wasn't complete. Around Kranj somewhere I think you had to go onto a single lane road for a few Kms but I don'r remember exactly :dunno:


----------



## x-type

still u/c unfortunately.


----------



## Verso

It will be finished next year (excluding the second tube of the Karavanke Tunnel). Currently 72% is motorway.


----------



## Realek

Great job Keber, I loved the ringroad tour! :cheers:


----------



## MBM

ELLIN said:


> no..i cant be jealious cause i think the photos of the motoways above are better....jealious of what???? :lol:
> Nephasto with all my repsect you are making a mistake....you are right that maybe was something out of this topic....but believe me i dint do it in a negative way....i just have some open cases with Verso on the subject motorways and economic development.....
> Nephasto dont let me do a topic about Greece highways or even no to be missunrestand about Portuguese...i just expressed my opinion that they are really small.......they could do it bigger and this is something that will help all the balkans not just Slovenia cause the highways connecting the sounth balkans with west Europe are a big problem....
> Making some critisism is allways negative..all we have to scream wow!!!
> I cant sorry.....


:lol::lol: You posts sounds like Slovenia is underdeveloped counry:lol: But you forgot to tell that Slovenia is actually more developed than Greece:lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, Dutch news said about Slovenia "the welfare country", while they are usually very negative about Eastern Europe.


----------



## MBM

Chriszwolle said:


> Yeah, Dutch news said about Slovenia "the welfare country", while they are usually very negative about Eastern Europe.


Nice:cheers:


----------



## mapman:cz

*Question*

Hi guys,

one question, can you tell me, where is the place on this video located and why are those drivers so crazy??

Maybe its not in Slovenia, but I have found it on Slovenian website... Thanks for answers


----------



## pmaciej7

It's eastern Europe, that's for sure. Not Poland, because it is no polish road painting style... But drivers might be from Poland or Russia or Ukraine...

Eureka!! I've got an idea!! Look at these shiny crashbarriers!!


----------



## RawLee

^^Which country uses light-blue coaches? I've seen 2 in the film,and both are blue until the windows,and white above,and both came from the very same on-ramp.


----------



## MBM

mapman:cz said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> one question, can you tell me, where is the place on this video located and why are those drivers so crazy??
> 
> Maybe its not in Slovenia, but I have found it on Slovenian website... Thanks for answers


I think it is not in Slovenia. But it is definetly somewhere in ex-Yugoslavia. I think it could be Serbia, judging by large number of Yugos, and Stoenka cars.


----------



## mojaBL

I think that it is Novi Sad Serbia, they have city buses like this










and are crazy enough


----------



## RawLee

^^Thats the one coming at 0:39.


----------



## SRB

this looks like a hill,no hills near novi sad


----------



## Brisbaner21

Looks great! Not bad at all for this small country.


----------



## mojaBL

SRB said:


> this looks like a hill,no hills near novi sad


Fruska Gora,
It is Novi Sad 100%


----------



## kajetanek

we in poland have better highway than slovenia


----------



## pmaciej7

^^ We in Poland have the same talents, as everywhere in the world*. 
_Leo Beenhakker_

But roads?
_pmaciej7_


*quotation from Tyskie beer tv commercial


----------



## Verso

Strange things going on here. :shifty:


----------



## pmaciej7

^^ This could be a case for Mulder and Scully... 

You know my opinion about Slovenian motorways. So, what do you mean Kajetanek? Maybe i missed something. Or you want to be polish Radi?


----------



## kajetanek

i'm patriot.


----------



## mojaBL

kajetanek said:


> i'm patriot.


have u seen struma?


----------



## pmaciej7

It's easy to say: polish roads are better. But being a patroit doesn't allow you to tell things just like that without any reasons. So give me any ground of this statement or i will think you are more chauvinist than patriot. 

I've got a question. If i say, that slovenian motorway *network* is better than polish, will i not be patriot? 

Yes, that's the first argument for slovenian A&S ways: They make a network. Not finished yet (Ljubljana-Jesenice, Maribor-HR border!!), but (of course with exceptions) at least you don't need to drive through villages, small and big cities etc. 

Right now we are 10 years after Slovenia, so polish motorway network can't be better. 

Or are we talking about single road quality? Maybe you know arguments for polish motorways? What makes them better? Shiny crashbarriers, smooth waterresistant asphalt? Anything...


----------



## Verso

72% of the Ljubljana-Jesenice-Austria road is motorway.


----------



## Don CROleone

^^Verso, bas si sladak...
Mislim, taj tvoj macak...:kiss: :lol::lol:

P.S. Oprosti za upad u temu, ali morao sam izreci svoje nutarnje osjecaje
:cheers:


----------



## pmaciej7

Verso said:


> 72% of the Ljubljana-Jesenice-Austria road is motorway.


That's right. I was talking about this last 28%, where i lost almost 2 hours 

EDIT: Can someone translate, what did krOativan say?


----------



## Verso

^ Hehehe. 

krOativan:
1. no Croatian here, please
2. you sound either gayish or catosexual :lol:


----------



## Don CROleone

Verso said:


> ^ Hehehe.
> 
> krOativan:
> 1. no Croatian here, please
> 2. you sound either gayish or catosexual :lol:


:rofl:

I like the cats...:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Don CROleone

^^Verso, could I be your mouse?:angel1:


----------



## Verso

:shifty:


----------



## Don CROleone

Verso said:


> :shifty:


:gossip:


----------



## Verso

Sorry, I can't hear you. :lol: If you're gay, just say it, it would be nothing new here. :lol:


----------



## Don CROleone

Verso said:


> Sorry, I can't hear you. :lol: If you're gay, just say it, it would be nothing new here. :lol:


:bash::bash::bash::nono::angel::runaway:


----------



## keber

In 2007, everything, that was opened, was 3 km of one half of A2 motorway toward Jesenice and Austria; has 3 quite tall viaducts and one short tunnel. Old half will be reconstructed (read: new construction) up to summer 2009. Some pictures right before opening in November 2007. 
























































Sadly, last remaining 380 m long tunnel on A2 on Ljubljana-Zagreb part won't have hard shoulder. Because some experts said, that it doesn't pay itself.:bash:


----------



## Verso

^^ Have you noticed that they put the end-of-expressway sign at the beginning of this short section and the beginning-of-motorway sign, when in fact just one half is opened? :doh:


----------



## Mateusz

Ok, so this 3 km section of A2 exist in half profile ?


----------



## Verso

^ Yes, it's still exactly like in the photos (and will be until 2009). So this year the Ljubljana-Villach motorway should be finished, except for this short section (and Karavanke tunnel).


----------



## Mateusz

What will be a number of motorway from Maribor towards croatian border, A4 ?


----------



## Verso

Yep..


----------



## radi6404

Very good pics, Keber, the stretch looks superb, except that the markings don´t seem very thick, bulgarian national road and motorway markings are so thck that they can be felt while driving. But taht´s jsut a small detail, otherwise it looks very good.


----------



## keber

We don't use relief markings on our motorways, only on few dangerous sections of some important main roads. Of course, they should use them everywhere, because markings are much more visible in rain at night, but our beloved motorway company doesn't seem to acknowledge this as noteworthy.:bash:


----------



## Verso

Our markings are practically invisible in rain at night..


----------



## keber

Construction has started on last 15 km of A2 between Ljubljana and Zagreb between Trebnje and Novo mesto. It goes over quite hilly area and it will cost about 185 mil. € (12,3 mil € per km). Pictures from today shows west portal of 380 m long tunnel, whose boring started few days ago. Elsewhere much is still not happening, but mechanization is ready and trees are mostly cut.


----------



## P.C.Dolabella

Finally 

After long discussions, are they choose new southern bypass of Trebnje?


----------



## keber

Motorway goes up to 70 meters above current expressway (shown a bit in first picture) in the valley. Trebnje will have two exists instead of current one. One of exits will also connect future expressway in direction to Celje (far future) with motorway.


----------



## P.C.Dolabella

70 meters above? Is it south of Old Castel on the hill?


----------



## keber

Yes. I'll take some photos, when all trees on projected motorway will be cut down, maybe next week. On that hill there will be even reststop, however not on spot with splendid view.

About old crumbling castle: it is rumored, that renovation could take place already next year.


----------



## P.C.Dolabella

All good news for Trebnje :cheers:


----------



## Verso

*Say hello to motorway sticker!*

*It's official - Slovenia is getting motorway sticker (vignette)!*

The Slovenian government adopted today a resolution about introducing sticker for Slovenian motorways and expressways. We'll start using it on the *1st July 2008*. They will only be used by cars and motor bikes, whereas trucks will continue to be charged at toll booths.

There will only be two types of stickers:
- yearly/annual (1.1.-31.12), which will cost *55 €* for cars and *27.5 €* for motor bikes
- half-yearly (half year from the date of purchase), which will cost *35 €*

Toll booths won't be demolished yet.

Links in Slovenian:
http://24ur.com/naslovnica/novice/slovenija/20080320_3120332.php
http://www.rtvslo.si/modload.php?&c_mod=rnews&op=sections&func=read&c_menu=1&c_id=168172
http://www.delo.si/index.php?sv_path=41,35,280323
http://www.dnevnik.si/novice/slovenija/306789/



So what do you think?  I think it's great for Slovenians (just 55 €), but very bad for most foreigners.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That stinks. Way too expensive for driving like 2 hours through the country. I hope there will be some kind of transit-vignette, or a week vignette.


----------



## Rijeka

Chris, I absolutely agree with you! Especially cause there are many section which are not constructed yet! For someone between Graz and Zagreb it's way too expensive. Or for someone from Austria going to Bled or from Italy to Postojna cave, for example...


----------



## Verso

Chriszwolle said:


> That stinks. Way too expensive for driving like 2 hours through the country. I hope there will be some kind of transit-vignette, or a week vignette.


No, just half-yearly for 35 euros. It's very expensive for someone just crossing the country once (or let's add a return journey), especially between Graz and Zagreb, and I'm afraid the (crappy) expressway through Maribor will also be charged (as it is now at the toll booth Pesnica), so you'd have to go through the city, even in rush hours.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

€ 35 is way overpriced for tourists. It's like taking advantage of the tourists, it's even more expensive than the Swiss yearly vignette (€ 25), and Slovenia is also smaller than Switzerland. Besides that, the Swiss vignette makes more sense, because the number of tunnels and bridges is much larger than in Slovenia. 

This doesn't feel good. Maybe it affects the tourism industry. No offense, but the Slovenian road network is not worth the price of € 35.


----------



## Timon91

Yes, I guess that dutch tourists are more eager to follow the A2, A76, followed by the German A4, A61, A1 into Luxembourg, and then on to France.


----------



## x-type

old road from Šentilj to Pesnica is going to become really congested, probably also dangerous


----------



## Rijeka

I've never taken that one. Would it be possible to go through Maribor to Ptuj (from Sentilj) without paying a toll? I suppose we'll have to drive through the city center or pay 35 euros.


----------



## Verso

Tauernautobahn said:


> I think when I'm going to Croatia this Summer I'll not go via Ljubljana but via Graz, take the last exit before the Border and go to Ptuj via national roads as there is only some 10 kms of motorway which would be as much as (!) €3,50 per km!!! And there isn't even a tunnel or along viaduct or something.


Oh, your scenario is a heaven, 10 km is not so much after all (especially taking into account traffic jam at the Pesnica toll station in summers and holidays). Here is the real picture: the expressway through Maribor will also require vignette, which means you'll have to drive through the city center, even in rush hours.

An even worse example is transiting between Trieste and Pula. There's this 7-km H5 expressway between the Italian border and Koper. Apart from that there's no major parallel road, only local roads with bad signage, I suppose. Even I'd have to look at some good map to find my way, if I didn't wanna make a detour over Buzet or sth.

Sth is clear: a vignette would have to be extremely cheap to satisfy people in transit between Graz and Zagreb or Trieste and Pula, which is of course out of question. That's why I suggest exempting these particular sections, or at least the mentioned expressways. After all, no one in Slovenia wants to look at transit flowing through the middle of Maribor or getting lost around Koper. I bet there will also be many "stowaways". But all these measures would destroy the government's plans about ripping off transit. 


On a side note, I think the Austrian A11 and A10 motorways, as well as the short section of the A1 between the A10 and German border by Salzburg shouldn't require vignette either, they already rip you off with three tunnels.


----------



## keber

Yes, and famous Bregenz section, and Brenner Autobahn too. 

Still, you must know, that this is election-only decision. Good for Slovenians (which vote) and bad for tourists (which of course don't vote).


----------



## Verso

keber said:


> Yes, and famous Bregenz section, and Brenner Autobahn too.


The Pfändertunnel isn't charged anyway, although it could be, so I don't consider this problematic; as for Brenner, well...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Maybe there is some EU law which requires transit-type of vignettes for foreigners?


----------



## Rijeka

I don't know, I've never heard of it. Verso, nobody says toll is a problem, the problem is price, so there should be a weekly sticker for let's say 7-8 euros, like in Austria... It would still be too expensive for the Sentilj-Ptuj section, but I suppose people would pay it. If it stays like this it would really look like a rip-off.


----------



## Tauernautobahn

keber said:


> Yes, and famous Bregenz section, and Brenner Autobahn too.


Actually the Brennerautobahn between the toll station Schönberg and the "Brenner/Brennero (Italian Border) doesn't require a toll sticker.

And for the transit relation Munich-Bregenz-Zürich/San Bernardino they -finally, after years of transit traffic through Bregenz - invented a "Korridorvignette" for 2€.
I think after some years of "transit-hell" through villages and Towns along the routes Graz-Maribor-Zagreb and Trieste-Koper-Pula they will have to invent such a thing, too.


----------



## Tauernautobahn

Verso said:


> Oh, your scenario is a heaven, 10 km is not so much after all (especially taking into account traffic jam at the Pesnica toll station in summers and holidays). Here is the real picture: the expressway through Maribor will also require vignette, which means you'll have to drive through the city center, even in rush hours.


OK, you're right, I think it'll be better to find som route via Bad Radkersburg/Gornja Radgona-Murska Sobota-Ormoz-Varazdin



Verso said:


> An even worse example is transiting between Trieste and Pula. There's this 7-km H5 expressway between the Italian border and Koper. Apart from that there's no major parallel road, only local roads with bad signage, I suppose. Even I'd have to look at some good map to find my way, if I didn't wanna make a detour over Buzet or sth.


I know what you mean, my father also wants to bypass that somehow but doesn't find any possibility.



Verso said:


> Sth is clear: a vignette would have to be extremely cheap to satisfy people in transit between Graz and Zagreb or Trieste and Pula, which is of course out of question. That's why I suggest exempting these particular sections, or at least the mentioned expressways. After all, no one in Slovenia wants to look at transit flowing through the middle of Maribor or getting lost around Koper. I bet there will also be many "stowaways".


That's why I think they'll have to find a solution for the listed routes, sth like a "Corridor toll sticker". I only fear that it will last some years until they invent it.



Verso said:


> But all these measures would destroy the government's plans about ripping off transit.


In this case, be aware of the EU , our politicians tried that for years, and they still try but don't have any success. :lol:



Verso said:


> On a side note, I think the Austrian A11 and A10 motorways, as well as the short section of the A1 between the A10 and German border by Salzburg shouldn't require vignette either, they already rip you off with three tunnels.


You're absolutely right. I think a country has to decide either to have a Toll sticker system OR a toll-booth system and not both.


----------



## edolen1

Tauernautobahn said:


> That's why I think they'll have to find a solution for the listed routes, sth like a "Corridor toll sticker". I only fear that it will last some years until they invent it.


That won't work, this is a temporary system, we're going to have satellite tolling by 2011 (or was it 2012?) for cars as well.. But that might be even worse, since you're going to have to buy a (probably pretty expensive) receiver to drive on our motorways..


----------



## Tauernautobahn

edolen1 said:


> That won't work, this is a temporary system, we're going to have satellite tolling by 2011 (or was it 2012?) for cars as well.. But that might be even worse, since you're going to have to buy a (probably pretty expensive) receiver to drive on our motorways..


At least for me (I drive in Solvenia at lest 4 times a year) that is better because once you've bought such a receiver you can use it multiple times and you only pay per driven kilometers. :cheers:

But if the toll sticker system is only temporary then wyh don't they just leave it out and still use the current system until the satellite system is introduced? :nuts:


----------



## Verso

^ B/c of elections. :lol: Most Slovenians welcome vignette, if it's just 55 EUR a year.


----------



## edolen1

I think it's a European directive thing though, so the receiver is probably going to be compatible with other countries' receivers.. I dunno when other countries plan to introduce it tho, if at all..


----------



## Tauernautobahn

Verso said:


> ^ B/c of elections. :lol: Most Slovenians welcome vignette, if it's just 55 EUR a year.


OK, i can understad that because it surely gets cheaper for them.
I didn't think of the circumstance that you have a toll for all motorways so that's noting special if there is no resistance of the population.


----------



## Verso

In the Ljubljana area there are as much as 75 km of motorways free of charge though (the bypasses and branches in all directions until the first toll).


----------



## Rijeka

I still think there will be many people who'll try to escape the toll. I mean, I live in the NL and I go to Croatia once a year (by car). If I go from Karavanke or from Graz to Rijeka I could pay 35 E, but if I go from Graz to Zagreb, than it seems a lot. I'm sure Slovenians wouldn't be happy to pay 35 E just to go to Graz or Klagenfurt. So ok, we'll see, but if Slovenia really introduces this system, it definitely won't make a nice impression on transit tourists


----------



## ChrisZwolle

edolen1 said:


> I think it's a European directive thing though, so the receiver is probably going to be compatible with other countries' receivers.. I dunno when other countries plan to introduce it tho, if at all..


The Netherlands are also discussion setting up at GPS based tolling system. The major problem are the extraordinary expensive operation costs. It is said to be as expensive as a few billion euro's per year.


----------



## Verso

Rijeka said:


> I still think there will be many people who'll try to escape the toll. I mean, I live in the NL and I go to Croatia once a year (by car). If I go from Karavanke or from Graz to Rijeka I could pay 35 E, but if I go from Graz to Zagreb, than it seems a lot. I'm sure Slovenians wouldn't be happy to pay 35 E just to go to Graz or Klagenfurt. So ok, we'll see, but if Slovenia really introduces this system, it definitely won't make a nice impression on transit tourists


Welcome to Slovenia! :nocrook: :colgate:


----------



## x-type

so H roads will require sticker too hno: it really bad  especially this one in Maribor. it looks more as city road then as interregional motorway


----------



## Jonesy55

Chriszwolle said:


> There is a perfectly fine tolling system for distances people drive, it's called fuel taxes. Who drives more, pays more taxes. Works perfectly fine. Other tollings on top of that are more or less a way to rip off motorists even more.


The problem with that in a small country like Slovenia is that trucks might fill up in Zagreb and use the Slovenian motorways to get to Italy without having to refuel, therefore the Slovenian government gets no revenue to pay for the motorway construction.


----------



## Rijeka

I go to Slovenia/Croatia once a year, and I would certainly avoind paying the toll if I go from Šentilj to Zagreb or from Trieste to Istria. I would pay just for the whole A1 or A2 in Slovenia...
I agree with Chris, fuel tax in Slovenia is not an option. Vignette is a good system, but not the proposed one, there SHOULD BE a weekly or a 10-days vignette.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Jonesy55 said:


> The problem with that in a small country like Slovenia is that trucks might fill up in Zagreb and use the Slovenian motorways to get to Italy without having to refuel, therefore the Slovenian government gets no revenue to pay for the motorway construction.


Well, they can set this up on an international scale. Well, to my opinion, most governments make enough revenue out of motorists already. In the Netherlands, their revenue is 10 times higher than they spend on roadways.


----------



## urbane

Rijeka said:


> I go to Slovenia/Croatia once a year, and I would certainly avoind paying the toll if I go from Šentilj to Zagreb or from Trieste to Istria. I would pay just for the whole A1 or A2 in Slovenia...
> I agree with Chris, fuel tax in Slovenia is not an option. Vignette is a good system, but not the proposed one, there SHOULD BE a weekly or a 10-days vignette.


IMO there should be a daily option. I am already upset at the Austrians for instituting a minimum 10 day vignette: why do I need to pay for 10 days if I only have to go through it to reach Germany ! :bash:


----------



## Rijeka

Off topic question for Urbane from Trieste (or others if they happen to know): When will the connection between Škofije/Rabuiese and the rest of the Italian motorway network (Grande viabilita' di Trieste) will finished? I couldn't find it on the Italian forum.


----------



## Verso

^^ It shall have been completed by the 25th April, so in less than a month.  Another link.



urbane said:


> Of course getting to Koper is the 1st issue, however, the newspaper made it seem that they were going to extend the H5 to Isola/Izola, thus I suppose widening the road there and making it part of the vignette system :dunno:
> If that's the case it would become a concern to those traveling not only to Isola/Izola, but also to Pirano/Piran, or Portorose/Portoroz.


No, they are building a whole new road, including a 2-km tunnel under Markovec hill. They were thinking about just widening the current coastal road in the past, but I guess it would then be impossible not to drive on expressway, except by making a long detour over Dragonja/Dragogna and Sečovlje/Sicciole or somewhere there.


----------



## Rijeka

Thanx Verso, I didn't know it. So the "upper" part between Padriciano and Cattinara is also open? Great. It will now be much easier coming from Istria. Unless Slovenia introduces the absurd toll system it's planning to do


----------



## Verso

^^ No, the Padriciano-Cattinara section (Carso (Karst) tunnel) isn't open yet, they are wrong by saying you'll already be able to drive uninterruptedly on motorway to Venice or Udine or whatever. It will only open in a year or so.


----------



## Rijeka

OK, thanx. I see you're the best informed on this forum! :cheers:


----------



## Verso

I just get it from others. :laugh:


----------



## Verso

Verso said:


> No, they are building a whole new road, including a 2-km tunnel under Markovec hill. They were thinking about just widening the current coastal road in the past, but I guess it would then be impossible not to drive on expressway, except by making a long detour over Dragonja/Dragogna and Sečovlje/Sicciole or somewhere there.


Actually there's some road over Markovec hill...


----------



## keber

(double post)


----------



## keber

Verso said:


> ^^ It shall have been completed by the 25th April, so in less than a month.  Another link.


Hopefully, because motorway interchange at Lacotisce is not finished yet and no work is being done there for at least half a year. However works at the tunnel seems to be in progress (as seen from current bypass). Works higher above at Cattinara seem to be far from finished.

I'm betting on end of June opening.


----------



## urbane

^^ I am skeptical too. Anyways, I am going to Capodistria/Koper tomorrow so will pass there and take a look.


----------



## urbane

Verso said:


> No, they are building a whole new road, including a 2-km tunnel under Markovec hill. They were thinking about just widening the current coastal road in the past, but I guess it would then be impossible not to drive on expressway, except by making a long detour over Dragonja/Dragogna and Sečovlje/Sicciole or somewhere there.


Oh ok, that's much better. I thought they were going to widen the 111.


----------



## urbane

urbane said:


> ^^ I am skeptical too. Anyways, I am going to Capodistria/Koper tomorrow so will pass there and take a look.


My skepticism about the opening date of April 25th was corroborated yesterday. The part between Rabuiese and svincolo delle Noghere is nice and open, but the rest until Lacotisce still has some way to go. .

Looking towards Rabuiese:



The new tunnel of Aquilinia:





Meanwhile cars have to use the old tunnel of Aquilinia, one lane each way, with quite a bit of traffic on this sunny weekend (and it's not even April !):


----------



## keber

Nice update. Looking at those pictures, I am pretty doubtful even about beginning of summer opening, because it looks quite clearly, that motorway is far from finished.

In other news: it is recommended, that penalty for a driver, not having valid vignette sticker on his/her car, will be between 500 and 1200 €. That's about 4 times more than in neighboring Austria.


----------



## Rijeka

Thanx, urbane, nice update. I agree, keber, far from finished.

Concerning the stickers, it seems that the national roads around Koper and Maribor/Ptuj will be very congested after 1st July.


----------



## urbane

keber said:


> Nice update. Looking at those pictures, I am pretty doubtful even about beginning of summer opening, because it looks quite clearly, that motorway is far from finished.


The newspaper of Trieste wrote that the new opening date for the entire Grande Viabilità Triestina should be October 30th.


----------



## Verso

^ Isn't that too early for the Carso tunnel (Padriciano-Cattinara)?


----------



## keber

As I know, this tunnel is already bored through for some time, so half an year should be enough to do remaining works. Works outside main tunnel are mostly in late phase of construction.


----------



## Verso

Good news: you can buy a fake half-yearly motorway sticker on black market for 10 euros. :rofl:


----------



## Verso

^^ Oops, maybe it's a 1. April Fool. :laugh:


----------



## HiRazor

Well I've just noticed Slovenia plans this sticker thing and must say:
- given the country's geography, where all major transit routes go across its shortest dimension and are on average only a dozen or so kms long (most of transit will very likely try to avoid Slovenian motorways and will simply turn on the "avoid toll" function on their gps devices on the Slovenian leg of their journey),
- given the fact the country already has a working system of collecting toll via toll booths,
- given the fact trucks will be excluded from the sticker system and the toll for them will be still collected in the same way in booths (hence no substantial cost saving due to reduction of booth personel while the incovenience of slowing at toll stations will be retained for passenger cars),
it's an outright idiocy.

I also wonder about the legality of 1/2 year being the shortest period of sticker available under the EU law. Czech republic (and perhaps Austria too) used to have only a 1-year valid (and it's worth to say pretty inexpensive) sticker available when the sticker system was introduced, but it had to introduce a shorter period stickers (a 7-day and a monthly one) upon the EU pressure before its entry into the block.


----------



## Verso

The best thing you can do is move to Slovenia and drive around as much as you can. :laugh:


----------



## rimorski

Around Slovenia, on a F1 racing track :lol:


----------



## Verso

rimorski said:


> Around Slovenia, on a F1 racing track :lol:


What's that problem you have with motorway to Dubrovnik? Is Croatia too small? :laugh:


----------



## Verso

Today I took a photo of these two ancient signs, the only of their kind I know in Slovenia. They are situated by the first exit (Brezovica) from the Ljubljana-Koper motorway in Ljubljana. They've most probably been here since the opening of the motorway in 1979, b/c I can't remember the last time they made signs with all capital letters. They were probably inspired by Italian signs, which are still written with all caps.


----------



## RawLee

HiRazor said:


> I also wonder about the legality of 1/2 year being the shortest period of sticker available under the EU law. Czech republic (and perhaps Austria too) used to have only a 1-year valid (and it's worth to say pretty inexpensive) sticker available when the sticker system was introduced, but it had to introduce a shorter period stickers (a 7-day and a monthly one) upon the EU pressure before its entry into the block.


And those are too long for truckers too...here truckers can buy 1-day vignettes...


----------



## Verso

Taken today:

Sorry for bad picture. Anyway, we also have a sign for Albania and Greece. 









The air was clean, so even the Alps covered with snow were visible. 









Guess where this record distance is taken.


----------



## Alle

Nice pragmatic roads and beautiful nature, take care of that


----------



## Norsko

Verso said:


> Today I took a photo of these two ancient signs, the only of their kind I know in Slovenia. They are situated by the first exit (Brezovica) from the Ljubljana-Koper motorway in Ljubljana. They've most probably been here since the opening of the motorway in 1979, b/c I can't remember the last time they made signs with all capital letters. They were probably inspired by Italian signs, which are still written with all caps.


The blue "Keep right" sign reminds me about the Chezk an Slovak Mandatory Signs. I like the ex Yu way of using different colours for each type of road, and these colours beeing used no matter what type of road they are posted along. (f eks yellow signs beeing used at Slovenian motorways to indicate that the exit leads to an ordinary road. In Norway for instance, the motorway signs are blue no matter what kind of road they are pointing to).


----------



## PLH

It's not only in former Yougoslavia, also in Poland we have different colors for different roads


----------



## Norsko

PLH said:


> It's not only in former Yougoslavia, also in Poland we have different colors for different roads


I remember now it is the case for Sweden and France as well (The French signage is just messy tough). Anyway... I think this kind of signage makes it more easy to "get the picture" when driving fast, instead of just seeing blue (no mather if the sign is pointing to a narrow local road, another motorway or a main tourist attraction) like it is done up here.


----------



## Norsko

^^ I am quite a geek when it comes to signage, I know... :stupid:


----------



## x-type

PLH said:


> It's not only in former Yougoslavia, also in Poland we have different colors for different roads


but we have more detailed system: white is city, yellow normal roads, blue expressways and green motorways.


----------



## Norsko

x-type said:


> but we have more detailed system: white is city, yellow normal roads, blue expressways and green motorways.


I ve noticed that, after spending the last four summers in Croatia, moving around by car  Actually Norway also use white for local destinations. This only rarely is shown on motorway signage though.


----------



## Verso

In Italy you also don't notice interchanges between different motorways, unless you're concentrated on it. They appear almost like every other exit. Btw, the white color on that old sign would now be yellow, b/c Postojna and Dobrova are towns, not parts of towns.



Alle said:


> Nice pragmatic roads and beautiful nature, take care of that


Thanks, don't worry.


----------



## bgplayer19

Guys what's the distance between Ljubljana and Maribor?


----------



## Verso

City-centre to city-centre about 125 km.


----------



## keber

Actually AADT will be pretty low for a motorway, A5 is being built so fast (and consequently also very cheaply) because of large truck number. When Croatia enters EU and later Schengen, some traffic will definitely divert through Croatia. How cost effective and cheaply this motorway is built, you can see on this picture:


----------



## Mateusz

This does not look like a motorway  Were are markings ?


----------



## muravidék

this section is not in operation yet, it is supposed to be in october


----------



## ChrisZwolle

How much can a shoulder cost on the total budget? It can't be that much, as far as i know most money goes to viaducts, tunnels and the roadway itself. If you want to build cheap, you can always make a thinner foundation under the shoulder.


----------



## keber

Land cost. Just look at how close fence and trees are. Especially noticeable at higher embankments and cuttings. Also less supporting walls were necessary in otherwise pretty difficult geology, which can be pretty expensive.

But otherwise I agree with you. Cost difference between full profile motorway and reduced one was about 15-20%, also it could be done one year earlier (motorway is nearing completion), and this had been enough to meet 2008 deadline, which was promised three years ago.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Maybe they can add them later. Even 2,5m wide shoulders can do the job.

Besides that, i hate shoulders that have a guardrail immediatly next to them. It means in case of a breakdown, you have to park your car very close to the driving lanes, which can be dangerous. In the Netherlands, there's usually space to park your car in the grass.


----------



## muravidék

keber said:


> . Just look at how close fence and trees are.


cutting down few trees and moving the fence further away shouldn't be a problem though:lol:


----------



## x-type

khm, this really looks as german standard for motorways built in 60es or 70es  large dissapointment. the weirdest thing is that it has A number and it is green.

what is this number 7 at sign?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Exit number?


----------



## x-type

obviously. i see exit number for the first time at 1000 m direction table


----------



## muravidék

these are Verso's photos of A5 section (in operation since 2003)
you all exaggerate a bit with the section which is *still* under construction



















Verso I hope you don't mind


----------



## keber

x-type said:


> khm, this really looks as german standard for motorways built in 60es or 70es  large dissapointment.


Or rather Austrian A11 in 90ies, which in my opinion doesn't need any hard shoulders. 



x-type said:


> the weirdest thing is that it has A number and it is green.


A8 and A9? :naughty:

@Chris, hard shoulders are planned to be build later, when other more necessary motorway projects will be finished. Most object (over/underpasses, some viaducts) are built such, that hard shoulder can be easily added. Mind, that A5 was originally (in 2004) planned to be finished in 2013. To speed-up project obviously some compromises were needed. 

It is a big and busy construction site. This year almost 70 km of that motorway will be opened. Most of Slovenian motorway construction mechanization is situated there, which can be felt on some other motorway construction project, which are advancing more slowly as they otherwise should.

@muravidék: You can cut some trees for a sake of visibility, but you can't move fence on land that is not in state ownership.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What kind of AADT can we expect on the new A5? Between 10,000 and 20,000 or something like that?


----------



## Verso

I think big majority of AADT on Budapest-Graz- and Budapest-Zagreb-Ljubljana routes is local traffic, so I'm not sure if the AADT of the A5 will sky-rocket.

Of course I don't mind, muravidék.


----------



## keber

Actually numbers will be quite lower.

For 2006 traffic data for one only currently open section around Murska Sobota show AADT of around 5000, however that includes around 2300 of trucks with trailers. Actually personal cars account for only 40 % of AADT or only 2000 cars. For 2008 let say there will be around 2200 cars and around 5000 trucks (which are nowadays counted almost regulary). = around 7-8 thousand AADT. 

First part around Maribor however had around 15000 AADT in 2006 with about 2500 trucks with trailers. Let's say that in 2008 it will have around 20.000 including 5000 trucks. Probably about 90% of traffic will be later transfered to new opened motorway (which has hard shoulders first 5 km from A1).

As you see, there is not enough AADT to justify full scale motorway, but 5000 trucks daily are good reason for at least motorway at reduced size.


----------



## x-type

keber said:


> A8 and A9? :naughty:


it's only at some internet pages. at road there is no single sign with A, all are signed B


----------



## radi6404

Ok, I came back to bulgaria, I travelled back with the Bus, a good new Setra Bus, and I must say that the slovenian motorways and nationalroads felt and looked best of all, the asphalt isn´t the smoothest, but slightly rough which fells better and is better for very good grip, they aren´t bumpy at all, it´s amazing how even they are, they are like the best parts of Struma motorway and the E-79 nationalroad.


----------



## Verso

:hug:  There must've been at least one crappy section though.  Hopefully this short section fades away once you either drive through that cool cut-and-cover (cut'n'cover ) (direction Ljubljana), or enter motorway, which ends no sooner than by Niš (direction Zagreb/Sofia). :cheers:


----------



## radi6404

Yes, there is this one crappy section but it´s not long, I like the Slovenian markings alot aswell, they don´t fade out at all. The pay stations look also cool and the lit arrow signs in Lubliana are amazing, the white concrete in the middle of the motorway under bridges looks apsolutely great, too, the crashbarriers are shiny and round, not crappy angular, the signs are also very good, but what I didn´t like was that the very new section with the bridges and tunnel is not as smooth and even as the old motorway parts Lubliana Austria and Lubliana - Croatian border. After the croatian border however x-type a new world began, the motorways had good asphalt, but that was all, they were an eyesore.


----------



## x-type

they were eyesore (whatever that means ) because A3 is extremely boring motorway. i claim that signalization is absolutely at the same level in both countries, SLO & HR. i'd say that in HR it is more logical (beside blue motorway sign  ), for instance, we don't have salad at direction signs, while you can find it in SLO. SLO has much better dynamic signalization, i must say that's my largest envy for slovenian motorways (although i think our dynamic signs are more dense, but i cannot claim for sure). also, that mess with road numbers at Ljubljana ring is not possible to find in Croatia. we don't have totso's at all, so all numbers are really usefull and nice solved. oh yes, our toll stations are mostly better. there are only few in Slovenia that look nice to me (Kompolje, those at Ljubljana - Zagreb motorway and no more actually). at all, i'd say that we have really similar motorways.


----------



## radi6404

I have seen such signs in Beograd but I don´t think they are lit at night. Anyway, Slovenia is a journey for me to drive through, this small country looks so extremly advanced as a very high standart western country with no weak things. Everything shines there and everything looks very advanced. I don´t think bulgaria will even reach this standart in 20 years.


----------



## Verso

Now I feel like living in Monaco.  You should try our railways. :lol:

Let's see what Bulgaria can get out of being an EU member. :cheers:


----------



## mojaBL

We have them also in Banja Luka


----------



## Verso

One of the companies that weren't chosen to print the stickers, made a complaint, so in the beginning (from the 1st July onwards) instead of stickers (vignettes), some kind of tickets will be in use.

http://www.dars.si/Default.aspx?mod=AktualnoDisplay&anewsid=780&lang=2


----------



## Verso

Well, apparently, after almost two years, we finally got on Monday a new motorway (5 km), A2 between Vrba (where the motorway bypassing Jesenice ends) and Radovljica (direction Ljubljana), which is the first extension of that motorway after 15 years. But there's practically nothing in the media, which is outright hilarious! My only source:


pijanec said:


> *GORENJKA KMALU NARED!*
> 
> V ponedeljek je že stekel promet na novem odseku gorenjske avtoceste med Radovljico in Vrbo, do jeseni pa bo nared še odsek med Radovljico in Peračico.
> 
> Minuli ponedeljek so brez slovesnosti in lepih nagovorov odprli pet kilometrov dolg odsek nove avtoceste od Vrbe do Radovljice. V zaključni fazi je še rondo za Bled in Radovljico.
> 
> Tako ostane le še petkilometrski odsek od Peračice do Radovljice, ki bo dograjen do septembra, potem pa čaka na obnovo še stari tunel z viaduktom v dolžini poltretjega kilometra in težko pričakovana gorenjska magistrala bo končno nared.
> 
> Vir: Nedeljski, 1.6.2008


----------



## Mateusz

I hope there will be some photos soon


----------



## Verso

Having anyone specific in mind?


----------



## LtBk

Why it took 2 year to build a tiny extension?


----------



## hkskyline

*Slovenia stands by motorway sticker plans: prime minister *

POSTOJNA, Slovenia, May 28, 2008 (AFP) - Slovenia will move ahead with plans to introduce fee-carrying stickers for cars using the country's motorways despite protests from neighbouring nations, Prime Minister Janez Jansa said Wednesday.

Until now, Slovenia has charged motorists a toll every time they use the motorway. But from July 1, it will switch to a system of stickers allowing cars and motorcycles to drive on the entire motorway network for periods of either six or 12 months.

The six-month sticker will cost 35 euros (55 dollars) and the one-year sticker 55 euros (86 dollars).

The plans have come under fire from automobile associations and tourist organisations in Germany and Austria, whose nationals drive through Slovenia to holiday destinations such as Croatia, Greece or even Turkey.

They have called for shorter-term stickers such as one week or one month to make the transit more affordable for holidaymakers simply travelling through.

At present, motorway tolls for people driving from, say, Austria to Croatia via Slovenia have been as little as two euros.

Nevertheless, Premier Jansa insisted Ljubljana would sell only six- and 12-month stickers, at least for the time being, until the ultimate goal of a satellite-driven toll system became technically feasible.

"We have to ask ourselves whether the current system is fair," Jansa told journalists during a visit to Postojna, a city some 40 kilometres (25 miles) south of capital Ljubljana.

Slovenia, which had financed the construction of its motorways itself, was "suffocating in transit," Jansa said.

"We won't be sorry at all if part of that transit, which is detrimental to the environment, starts avoiding Slovenia," Jansa said.

The sticker system would also be cheaper for locals and encourage them to use the motorways rather than smaller, local roads, the politician argued.


----------



## keber

LtBk said:


> Why it took 2 year to build a tiny extension?


Some things take time. Motorway building is very rarely done in one year.


----------



## Verso

Yeah, it doesn't really matter how long a motorway section is. Some things still take time. If many people work on a long section 24/7, they can build it as quickly as a short section.

But my point was that it was the first new motorway section in Slovenia after almost two years, not that it had been built in two years (although it actually had). (if English isn't a crazy language...)


----------



## muravidék

^^and you are a 'master complicator'


----------



## x-type

LtBk said:


> Why it took 2 year to build a tiny extension?


actually, in this slovenian text you can read that still 5 km waits to be finnished. so, not finnished yet. but it must be because in Slovenia it is not easy to buy ground for roads, is that right Verso?


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> actually, in this slovenian text you can read that still 5 km waits to be finnished. so, not finnished yet.


Where did you get this? That's another section (Radovljica - Peračica). The Radovljica-Vrba section is the one that was allegedly opened (both are 5 km long each).



x-type said:


> but it must be because in Slovenia it is not easy to buy ground for roads, is that right Verso?


Ask keber.


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> Where did you get this? That's another section (Radovljica - Peračica). The Radovljica-Vrba section is the one that was allegedly opened (both are 5 km long).


i expected whole missing part between Kranj and Jesenice to be completed.


Verso said:


> Ask keber.


----------



## muravidék

The missing part Radovljica-Peračica is scheduled to be completed in november, but these days we can read that the opening will take place in september; 
Meanwhile a 3km section (old Peračica tunnel and two adjacent viaducts) is undergoing a complete reconstruction with an opening set in 2009. Maybe verso or keber know more about this reconstruction.


----------



## Verso

That's all there is to it.


----------



## snupix

Why is building of this motorway going soo slow?


----------



## muravidék

^^it depends, from which perspective you look, obviously in Slovenia that seems to be normal:lol:


----------



## snupix

muravidék said:


> ^^it depends, from which perspective you look, obviously in Slovenia that seems to be normal:lol:


Yeah, but i remember that part missing years and years ago and I've never seen any construction. Ok, now they're working on it, but why have they waited so long to finish it, while other motorways were constructed in quite a reasonable time?


----------



## muravidék

it took few years that local community in Radovljica and Dars (state) even made an agreement about the route (where, what kind, and so on)


----------



## Verso

Ok, apparently only one lane on both sides of that 5-km-long motorway section Vrba - Radovljica, which I mentioned on the previous page, was opened on Monday (speed limit 80 km/h). The source:


bojc said:


> Odprt je samo en pas v vsako smer (in to na celotnem odseku od galerije Moste do Radovljice). Omejitev je 80. V smeri proti Ljubljani manjkata 2 majhna odseka (samo na južni polovici AC):
> - med starim in novim delom AC pri Vrbi
> - pri Radovljici, tam kjer je bil prej obvoz po južni polovici AC
> 
> Nekaj delajo tudi na starem odseku med galerijo Moste in Vrbo (tudi tu samo na južni polovici).
> 
> Tam, kjer še delajo, se pas za Ljubljano preusmeri na severni del AC, drugače pa teče po južnem.
> 
> Meni vse skupaj deluje bolj kot preusmeritev, ker so zaprli staro cesto zaradi gradnje krožišča v Lescah in križišča v Radovljici. Očitno bo promet po tem delu AC pač tekel do pravega odprtja.


:nuts:


----------



## Verso

snupix said:


> Yeah, but i remember that part missing years and years ago and I've never seen any construction. Ok, now they're working on it, but why have they waited so long to finish it, while other motorways were constructed in quite a reasonable time?


Apparently in Slovenia we haven't heard of Germany, Europe's largest economy. :lol:


----------



## x-type

or you're forcing Pyhrnautobahn, it is very "in" nowadays


----------



## Verso

Ok, so this is the 5-km motorway section Vrba - Radovljica, mentioned on the previous page. Where did they get yellow/orange background on the speed-limit sign, when we've been using white for a few years, and the sign looks new?


bojc said:


>


And a viaduct on the motorway close to Jesenice, opened already in 1993:


bojc said:


>


----------



## wyqtor

Why is only one lane each direction used? It seems pretty much finished to me.


----------



## Verso

^^ Because of this. This is the connecting point between the old motorway and the new "motorway", which, as you can see, isn't finished yet:


bojc said:


>


And to fully open just 5 km would be kinda odd, I guess.


----------



## ABRob

Verso said:


> And to fully open just 5 km would be kinda odd, I guess.


Why not. Every 2-lane section over 1km is long enough for overtaking.


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> Where did they get yellow/orange background on the speed-limit sign, when we've been using white for a few years, and the sign looks new?


temporary sign or sign for zone of works


----------



## Verso

ABRob said:


> Why not. Every 2-lane section over 1km is long enough for overtaking.


Yeah, but (especially Slovenes) would think the motorway is now opened all the way to the Karavanke Tunnel. But then again, with appropriate signs, you can make it clear it isn't, so I don't know.


----------



## Verso

*11 km of motorway open*

Ok, with the next news I'm not shitting you.  Today they opened a combination of 1 km of A1 and 10 km of A5 motorways (altogether 11 km), between the roundabout Pesnica by Maribor and exit Lenart (direction Hungary). Thus length of motorways in Slovenia rises to about 421 km (beside 47 km of 4-lane expressways). Again virtually nothing in the media, just on Dars' website. :no:

http://www.dars.si/Default.aspx?mod=AktualnoDisplay&anewsid=781&lang=2

:dance:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ You really hoped it would be in the CNN breaking news huh


----------



## Verso

After almost two years of nothingness it was my only hope.  I feel so much better this year.


----------



## radi6404

Verso said:


> Ok, with the next news I'm not shitting you.  Today they opened a combination of 1 km of A1 and 10 km of A5 motorways (altogether 11 km), between the roundabout Pesnica by Maribor and exit Lenart (direction Hungary). Thus length of motorways in Slovenia rises to about 421 km (beside 47 km of 4-lane expressways). Again virtually nothing in the media, just on Dars' website. :no:
> 
> http://www.dars.si/Default.aspx?mod=AktualnoDisplay&anewsid=781&lang=2
> 
> :dance:


Because opening of motorways happens very seldom here they would show even such small sections with the imbecile ministers talking that they will continue building and they progress very fast and so on.


----------



## Timon91

^^And they don't progress very fast of course, that happens everywhere. hno:


----------



## x-type

omg, 10 km! is that record?  and when will you open 0,6 km long section near Gruškovje?


----------



## Verso

Stay tuned.  And this year they open more than 100 km of motorways, which equals 300 km in Croatia, 1,600 km in Poland or 50,000 km in China. :cheers:


----------



## radi6404

Verso said:


> Stay tuned.  And this year they open more than 100 km of motorways, which equals 300 km in Croatia, 1,600 km in Poland or 50,000 km in China. :cheers:


And thеy will surely be with the great slovenian asphalt, a bit rough and very even and flat, they feel awesome.


----------



## Verso

kay:


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> Stay tuned.  And this year they open more than 100 km of motorways, which equals 300 km in Croatia, 1,600 km in Poland or 50,000 km in China. :cheers:


that's good. can you write sections with lenghts which will be opened this yyear?


----------



## Verso

^^ http://www.avtoceste.si/Default.aspx?id=80018&lang=1

Add the 11 km opened yesterday.


A vid of the new A5 between Lenart and Pernica (not by me ):


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Why do people make such shaky videos?


----------



## Verso

^ They probably hold the cameras in their hands, instead of fixing them.


----------



## radi6404

Verso said:


> ^^ http://www.avtoceste.si/Default.aspx?id=80018&lang=1
> 
> Add the 11 km opened yesterday.
> 
> 
> A vid of the new A5 between Lenart and Pernica (not by me ):


It doesn´t look like a just opened motorway, he asphalt and markings on a just opened motorways look different, the asphalt looks fresh almost like a paste and the markings look very white and reflective.


----------



## Verso

^^ That's b/c it was more or less finished already half a year ago, but was only opened now. But at least crash barriers are shiny.


----------



## Verso

Just for Radi:


blaszs said:


>





blaszs said:


> 1960


:lol:


----------



## Rijeka

I like those pics, they're great... btw, where are the trolleys?


----------



## Verso

^ I didn't even know trolleys had ever run in Ljubljana, I only knew about trams, but anyway, they were both eliminated a long time ago. Hopefully we get tram back, although this would mean some two-decade chaos.

And of course you like the pics, there's a sign with Rijeka.  It's an interesting observation, now you won't see signs with Rijeka and Jesenice in the city-center, and Zagreb is slowly disappearing too. Instead of Rijeka now it's just Koper (although it used to be Postojna in the meantime) and instead of Jesenice it's Kranj. In the last years they started to replace Zagreb with Novo mesto, which is a completely political decision, as Zagreb is some 35 times larger than Novo mesto. But anyway, we have now countries written instead. In my 25 years I have really never seen signs for Rijeka and Jesenice in the downtown.


----------



## Rijeka

Yes, and now you have Reka/Rijeka signs, on the A1 towards Koper for example  And we in Rijeka still have Ljubljana and Trst signs :lol:


----------



## Verso

Rijeka said:


> Yes, and now you have Reka/Rijeka signs, on the A1 towards Koper for example


You mean towards Rijeka. :lol:



Rijeka said:


> And we in Rijeka still have Ljubljana and Trst signs :lol:


You went into another extreme: instead of "Trst" your new signs (on highways mostly) only show "Trieste". Ljubljana isn't affected. :lol:


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> You mean towards Rijeka. :lol:
> 
> You went into another extreme: instead of "Trst" your new signs (on highways mostly) only show "Trieste". Ljubljana isn't affected. :lol:


no. they show Trst/Trieste in areas where italian is official language beside croatian (Istria), but solo Trieste - i haven't seen it


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> no. they show Trst/Trieste in areas where italian is official language beside croatian (Istria), but solo Trieste - i haven't seen it


A motorway maniac, eh? You should be slapped with a trout. :lol: 


Ballota said:


> Some interchanges near Rijeka:


----------



## x-type

actually, it is so warm that i don't think properly and i'm messing the things. so, the truth: all city names in Croatia at direction signs are written in original form. so, it is never Budimpešta, but Budapest. same, it is not Trst, but Trieste. but in bilingual areas there appear double signs for croatian places: Vodnjan/Dignano, Rovinj/Rovigno etc. now i'm not sure if Trst appears at somw new signs. correct me if it does.


----------



## Verso

And A5 in pics:


eurotown said:


> Pozdravljeni!
> 
> Kot veste imamo nov avtocestni odsek Mb - Lenart. Ker je to po dolgih letih nova avtocesta v okolici Mb in ker je ta odsek začetek težko pričakovanega pomurskega kraka in uvod v kmalušnjo otovritev le-tega, sem se zapeljal malo naokrog. Prijetno gledanje!
> 
> Tukaj se odsek približno začne: uvoz iz pesniškega rondoja.
> 
> 
> 
> Vozim se v bistvu po Mariborski vzhodni obvoznici, do razcepa Dragučeva
> 
> 
> 
> Tudi tu bo enkrat avtocesta... kmalu
> 
> 
> 
> Potek...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tukaj fertik lušno
> 
> 
> 
> Obrat...
> 
> 
> 
> ...in nazaj
> 
> 
> 
> Potek
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ponovno razcep Dragučova in promet na treh nivojih:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In izhod... Ravno je smer Avstrija.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LP


:cheers:


----------



## x-type

where the hell is Pernica?! you're again attacking with 500 inhabitants places  
and i haven't noticed earlier new shaped arrows at your signs, are they new, or you use them since white background too?

and yes, A5 looks cute. i especially like this beginning of the video clip where 2 way access road has grass in the middle, it's incredibly cute


----------



## Timon91

Great motorway :cheers2:


----------



## philipman2000

best motorway i seen better than the m25 oh yea hows the traffic on it i remember its always a traffic jam !!!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What is up with those distance signs? Why do they sign places nobody heard of. In my opinion, three destinations could do the job. It looks like they want to sign all upcoming exits.


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> where the hell is Pernica?! you're again attacking with 500 inhabitants places


Why the hell was your post marked as read?! Anyway, Pernica (don't mistake it for Pesnica ) is the biggest village by that exit, so the exit is called after it, and we always show the next exit on distance signs.  It's not that small really; imagine all of them beating you at once! 



x-type said:


> and i haven't noticed earlier new shaped arrows at your signs, are they new, or you use them since white background too?


You're now the second uninformed Croat  (after snupix). We've had them for more than a year. Remember this report?


Verso said:


> This is not the G104, but H3. We're obviously getting new type of arrows.





philipman2000 said:


> best motorway i seen better than the m25


Err, you must be joking, right?  It must be the cheapest motorway you've ever seen. :lol: And M25 (if you mean the London Orbital) has eight lanes and hard shoulders. :lol:



philipman2000 said:


> oh yea hows the traffic on it i remember its always a traffic jam !!!


That's b/c the old road had (and still has) just two lanes and too many trucks for a 2-lane road, otherwise it's nothing special. But sth tells me you're in a wrong thread.


----------



## Verso

Chriszwolle said:


> What is up with those distance signs? Why do they sign places nobody heard of. In my opinion, three destinations could do the job. It looks like they want to sign all upcoming exits.


Slovenia is so small that we all know them.  Even _I_ know all those villages up there, even if 200 km away, and I suppose someone from the seaside (350 km away) too.

Ok, let's analyze it: Pernica is the next exit. Lenart is the first (small) town. Gornja Radgona is the first town bigger than Lenart and actually motorway won't reach it, so it's kinda in another direction. Murska Sobota is the capital of Prekmurje  and the biggest town until the border (almost 15,000 inhabitants :lol. It also used to be the capital of the Mura Republic.  Lendava is smaller than MS, but looks like a better control town, especially if you'll go to Lenti instead of Budapest when the motorway is finished. It's also by the border (sth like signing Brest in Moscow in times of Soviet Union, even though Minsk is bigger and closer). And Budapest has as many inhabitants as the whole Slovenia.


----------



## snupix

^^ I don't get it, this tunnel. Do you have any maps of the newly built part? Where does this "exit" lead to, and why is it still closed? And how does it look like now when you get from Kranj? Where does this old tunnel exit? Not anymore at that traffic light?


----------



## Verso

The new tunnel is in northwestern Ljubljana, where you see the word ŠENTVID:










The old tunnel(s) are still there. They were officially never considered motorway, b/c they are too narrow and were always meant for their eventual purpose - only interchange with the Celovška cesta (Klagenfurt Road). The new tunnel (which here actually starts as the old gallery (not in use before) between the galleries you always drove through) now goes under the Celovška Road (G8). I'll again post this photo:



















^^ So now you drive in the middle for transit and through the outside tunnels (galleries) only if you wanna exit/enter the motorway to/from Celovška Road.

Exiting/entering motorway for Celovška from/in the other direction isn't yet possible, b/c they decided to build the interchange(s) later. They will supposedly be built/bored/opened next year.

Also see:

http://www.avtoceste.si/img/SentvidKoseze1.jpg

http://www.avtoceste.si/img/PredorSentvidSituacija.jpg

If it still isn't clear, ask. :cheers:


----------



## snupix

Ok, I get it now. So the motorway (coming from North) goes now where those tennis courts are and it sinks into the ground there (Does it? It sinks before Celovška c.?). So it wasn't too narrow for a motorway in there? And btw. why is this old tunnel there? Why the need for a tunnel (gallery)? Because of the railway?


----------



## snupix

Btw. on this picture there are two connections from Celovška to the motorway going south (two tubes), and on the second plan there is only one, the shorter one. Why?


----------



## Verso

^ Now it should be wide enough, and yes it sinks under Celovška. You're right, they were built b/c of the Ljubljana-Kranj-Villach railway, and not only railway is at the top of the galleries, but a railway station (Lj.-Vižmarje) with 9 or so rails. There's also a building there. It's visible in Google Earth.


----------



## Verso

snupix said:


> Btw. on this picture there are two connections from Celovška to the motorway going south (two tubes), and on the second plan there is only one, the shorter one. Why?


I think it says "Alternative", or what's that? There's gonna be just one connection in each direction.


----------



## snupix

Verso said:


> I think it says "Alternative", or what's that? There's gonna be just one connection in each direction.


Yeah, it says alternative. Obviously they did it that way, after all. Very interesting, and a complicated exit... Although looking at GE some other ways of connecting A2 northbound to the Lj-Ring look much easier to build, is there a specific reason why it needed to be this way...?


----------



## Verso

^^ Read from here to the 514th post.


----------



## Rijeka

Verso said:


> The new tunnel is in northwestern Ljubljana, where you see the word ŠENTVID:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Verso, what map is this? I like the layout.


----------



## Verso

^ For these maps read here. :cheers:


----------



## Vremenko

snupix said:


> ^^ I don't get it, this tunnel. Do you have any maps of the newly built part? Where does this "exit" lead to, and why is it still closed? And how does it look like now when you get from Kranj? Where does this old tunnel exit? Not anymore at that traffic light?


This is how the new tunnel looks like, if you come from Kranj and Beljak/Villach. The "old road" goes to the right, and it functions as a normal exit. If you take this exit, you come to the famous Celovška traffic lights, and you have to drive through the city.

But you dont wanna drive through the city . So, you stay on the motorway, and enter the tunnel (actually a gallery) ahead. The tunnel begins about 400m later. You actually drive under the railway, some buildings, and also Celovška cesta, as Verso said.










And this is the famous sign that tells you that a vinjeta/vignette is obligatory. Well, it doesnt actually say that, but that is what it means. If I saw this sign for the first time, and in a foreign language, I wouldnt know that a vingette is neccessary.


----------



## snupix

Verso said:


> ^^ Read from here to the 514th post.


Yeah, but it doesn't really explain...

Thanks Vremenko for the pictures, now everything is clear!

As for the vignette sign - too small.


----------



## Verso

snupix said:


> Yeah, but it doesn't really explain...


How not?


keber said:


> Some sort of yellow variant was already proposed in seventies, but it was not selected because Yugoslav army had barracks there and there also is one of main water supplies for Ljubljana.


----------



## snupix

^^ Yeah, but that was in the 70's... No present explanations...


----------



## Verso

^ The main water supply for Ljubljana is still there (Kleče).


----------



## mgk920

Vremenko said:


> And this is the famous sign that tells you that a vinjeta/vignette is obligatory. Well, it doesnt actually say that, but that is what it means. If I saw this sign for the first time, and in a foreign language, I wouldnt know that a vingette is neccessary.


I would put the image of that sticker inside of a blue disk if its use is mandatory, with the weight class info below.

Mike


----------



## Verso

^ Absolutely. Btw, I've already driven through the new tunnel and was hoping nothing would fall on me.  I've also noticed that vignette _is_ obligatory even on the G104 expressway, even though it's not in the authority of Dars.


----------



## Timon91

Damn vignettes


----------



## Verso

^ Hehe, well, it's good to have it.


----------



## Timon91

^^Tell Belgium


----------



## Timon91

Or they are not checking enough :lol:


----------



## H123Laci

Chriszwolle said:


> ^^ The other one had crossed the 1000 post mark.


and why it is needed to close a thread when it "crosses the 1000 post mark"?


----------



## muravidék

yesterday DARS started to demolish toll stations; starting with Log a.k.a. Ljubljana zahod on A1


----------



## RipleyLV

^^ Even for trucks and buses?


----------



## muravidék

^^Definitely not!:lol:


----------



## RawLee

H123Laci said:


> and why it is needed to close a thread when it "crosses the 1000 post mark"?


Some time ago,maybe even before Hungary got into the CE section,the servers couldnt handle longer threads. But its not the case now,so its more like a custom now.

So the legend says...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, eventually, the servers will run slow again, and after 1000 posts, I think it's good to have a fresh start again (if not in the middle of a discussion)>


----------



## x-type

muravidék said:


> yesterday DARS started to demolish toll stations; starting with Log a.k.a. Ljubljana zahod on A1


how will it look, 2 small stations beside for lorries and buses? or?


----------



## muravidék

^^it is going to look like this, more or less; cabins (except those for lorries and buses) and some concrete blocks will be removed, these "islands" in the middle are going to stay and speed reduction to 40km/h as well; complete removal should/will take place in january 2010 with the introduction of satellite pay toll system for lorries


----------



## ABRob

How many toll-collectors had lost their job becasuse of the vignette?


----------



## Verso

^ They were mostly students anyway.


----------



## Verso

The motorway for Villach will only be finished in 2010. They can't build this short motorway for Germany in decades. :bash:


----------



## H123Laci

^^are you talking about this section?

this is shorter than 2km...

and what about this section?
(next to the previous one)
is it finished?

the google shows it "almost finished" (the route is marked with thin grey double line...)


----------



## Verso

H123Laci said:


> ^^are you talking about this section?


No, the one next to it, to the southeast. It's only 2.4 km long, but queues form anyway. The sections you showed us are actually just one section, and will be opened this autumn/fall. You can partly already drive on it, but only half-profiled.


----------



## Verso

There will be (or already is, considering that it's already open half-profile?) an interesting-looking interchange on the motorway (southeast of Radovljica):










What is this anyway? A double trumpet?


----------



## H123Laci

^^ wow, that's a really good route plan...

but this 2.440m section is not a missing section: it is a half profile section, it only needs widening... (google sat image)

but why the google map shows this section full-profile?? (double orange line)

is it possible that the widening works has been finished and it is fullprofile already???



the northern part of the other section (the 9780m long one) can be seen under construction on google sat.


and the Radovljica IC is a standard half-cloverleaf motorway-to-road IC.
I think you were confused by the over emphasized turning lanes at the ICramps-road intersections...


----------



## H123Laci

Double Trumpet ICs:

It can be used when 2 motorways cross each other but there is no space around the crossing point for a cloverleaf (or other mway-to-mway) IC, so they build two connecting trumpet a little bit further from the crossing point...

And it can be used also when 2 toll motorway cross each other so they can concentrate all exchanging traffic (8 ramps!!) in a single stretch of road, where toll booths can be installed.

a double trumpet on the belgrad bypass...


----------



## Verso

^^ Thanks about interchanges; you have to admit half-cloverleaves aren't _that_ common.



H123Laci said:


> but this 2.440m section is not a missing section: it is a half profile section, it only needs widening... (google sat image)


Correct, a 2-lane expressway used to run here, which now requires modernization (you drive on the new half).



H123Laci said:


> but why the google map shows this section full-profile?? (double orange line)
> 
> is it possible that the widening works has been finished and it is fullprofile already???


That's b/c Dars think they can fool us by officially proclaiming the road "motorway with roadworks". They "just" forgot to add that the "motorway" has never even been fully open yet. The same with the section Vrba - Radovljica: when you enter it, it's officially already motorway, with the adjacent sign, but the "little" problem is that it's not fully open yet. The difference between the two sections is that between Vrba and Radovljica the motorway is completely new; there was no expressway there before.


----------



## keber

H123Laci said:


> but this 2.440m section is not a missing section: it is a half profile section, it only needs widening... (google sat image)


It involves widening three pretty high viaducts, which are already some 35 years old (read: new construction) and enlarging too narrow tunnel.


----------



## H123Laci

^^ the 2nd halfprofile recquires new viaducts and tunnel.

why do the old ones need widening?
to build emergency lane?

on viaducts and tunnels it is optional...


----------



## H123Laci

Verso said:


> ^^ Thanks about interchanges; you have to admit half-cloverleaves aren't _that_ common.


Nope. it is a very common type: parclo IC (PARtial CLOverleaf)


----------



## muravidék

^^ of course it is
Kranj zahod, Vransko, Vučja vas, Beltinci, Vodice, Krtina, Lukovica, Ljubljana Brod, Postojna just to mention few, are all partial cloverleaves

now, partial cloverleaf is very common type, since new highways have no toll stations at exits and there is no need to build a trumpet (trumpets require just one toll station)


----------



## H123Laci

yeah, the trumpet IC is very common on motorways where you pay the toll at toll boots... (and not by vignette)

advantage: all four ramps are concentrated in a single strech, so the toll booths can be placed here...

but what about the disadvantages??

- a trumpet IC recquires a separate over/underpass, which could be spared with parclo IC. (at least when the road - what the IC connect to the mway - crosses the motorway. when it is paralell to the mway the trumpet is ok.)

- building a parclo recquires 2 booths but no extra over/underpass...

taking into account the advantages and disadvantages the 2 booths seems far cheaper to me than an extra over/underpass...

the trumpet option can be cheaper only when they apply only one person in the booth, so they can save significant money (salary) over a longer period...


the most complicated mway-to-road IC I've ever seen is the bisco IC on the A1, Croatia.
it is literally on the top of a local crossroad:


----------



## keber

H123Laci said:


> ^^ the 2nd halfprofile recquires new viaducts and tunnel.
> 
> why do the old ones need widening?
> to build emergency lane?
> 
> on viaducts and tunnels it is optional...


Old viaducts are quite old (30-35 years) and need complete overhaul (they are too narrow for current design rules also). So making them wider wouldn't add much to the cost. Same is true for that short tunnel. It was made for main road with no security features and is pretty narrow even for 2 motorway lanes without emergency lane.

Better full solution which lasts for decades than small scale adaptation which lasts for years only.


----------



## Verso

H123Laci said:


> Nope. it is a very common type: parclo IC (PARtial CLOverleaf)


I was having in mind the one in the middle of the picture, not the one southeast of it. Whatever it's called, I think it's the only one in Slovenia looking like that.


----------



## dookie

H123Laci said:


> yeah, the trumpet IC is very common on motorways where you pay the toll at toll boots... (and not by vignette)
> 
> advantage: all four ramps are concentrated in a single strech, so the toll booths can be placed here...
> 
> but what about the disadvantages??
> 
> - a trumpet IC recquires a separate over/underpass, which could be spared with parclo IC. (at least when the road - what the IC connect to the mway - crosses the motorway. when it is paralell to the mway the trumpet is ok.)
> 
> - building a parclo recquires 2 booths but no extra over/underpass...
> 
> taking into account the advantages and disadvantages the 2 booths seems far cheaper to me than an extra over/underpass...
> 
> the trumpet option can be cheaper only when they apply only one person in the booth, so they can save significant money (salary) over a longer period...
> 
> 
> the most complicated mway-to-road IC I've ever seen is the bisco IC on the A1, Croatia.
> it is literally on the top of a local crossroad:


I think that this photo in PS build was


----------



## x-type

dookie said:


> I think that this photo in PS build was


true, those local roads are mostly photoshoped


----------



## muravidék

Verso said:


> I was having in mind the one in the middle of the picture, not the one southeast of it. Whatever it's called, I think it's the only one in Slovenia looking like that.


what about Vransko


----------



## Verso

^^ Damn, it looks the same. :lol:


----------



## muravidék

^^and believe it or not, there are more, Kranj zahod, Bič, Krtina, Lipce, Ljubljana Sneberje, Rogoza, Bertoki, Murska Sobota:lol:
what a highway freak are youhno::|


----------



## H123Laci

^^ wow. that was not an easy task to convince Verso, but you managed to do it... :banana:


----------



## H123Laci

dookie said:


> I think that this photo in PS build was


maybe... but if it is a rendering it is extremly photo-realistic...


----------



## muravidék

H123Laci said:


> wow. that was not an easy task to convince Verso, but you managed to do it... :banana:


really, do you think so?:lol:


----------



## Verso

muravidék said:


> ^^and believe it or not, there are more, Kranj zahod, Bič, Krtina, Lipce, Ljubljana Sneberje, Rogoza, Bertoki, Murska Sobota:lol:


:fiddle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE2orthS3TQ&feature=related


----------



## muravidék

video is no longer available, smartass


----------



## Verso

edited


----------



## Verso

Another 5 km of new motorway opened.  Between Vrba and Radovljica; better said, now you can drive on motorway 5 km more from the Karavanke Tunnel. Nothing in the media, it's what people are saying.  Damn, considering how short sections we open, I wonder how we can have so many motorways. :lol: 437 km as of right now. :cheers:


----------



## Junkie

Verso said:


> Another 5 km of new motorway opened.  Between Vrba and Radovljica; better said, now you can drive on motorway 5 km more from the Karavanke Tunnel. Nothing in the media, it's what people are saying.  Damn, considering how short sections we open, I wonder how we can have so many motorways. :lol: 437 km as of right now. :cheers:


437km that's awesome for Slovenia.


----------



## Verso

^ That's only motorways; there's also 47 km of 4-lane expressways. We're approaching 500 km. :cheers:


----------



## muravidék

verso, don't be misleading, it is not officially open, currently there is only a "deviation of traffic" on this section (5km); the whole section (Vrba-Peračica) is still planned to be open in november (or september)


----------



## Verso

^ So what? I don't need an official opening to be able to drive there. Now stop bothering us with trivia.


----------



## vardar

Verso i think you need to give us some visual evidence, otherwise I'd have to agree with your countryman


----------



## vardar

BTW just browsing some of the older pics of the A1 (absolutely stunning), when did they start it and when was it finished?


----------



## Verso

vardar said:


> Verso i think you need to give us some visual evidence, otherwise I'd have to agree with your countryman


Two forumers have already driven there, and I believe them; I'm not going there just to see whether it's really open or not. 



vardar said:


> BTW just browsing some of the older pics of the A1 (absolutely stunning), when did they start it and when was it finished?


They started building it in 1970, the first section (Vrhnika - Postojna) was opened in 1972. But the A1 isn't finished yet, b/c the Maribor bypass is still missing, which will be put in traffic next year. The latest section is north of Maribor towards Hungary, but that's just 1 km, otherwise it was in 2005, when they finished the motorway between Maribor and Koper with the Trojane section.


----------



## vardar

Verso said:


> Two forumers have already driven there, and I believe them; *I'm not going there just to see whether it's really open or not.*


And you call yourself a highway freak hno: 

Thanx for the answer about the a1, BTW your rest areas names are really interesing in macedonian....

We have rest area SHOVEL









Rest area WINTER









And finally rest area FIGHTING :hilarious


----------



## Junkie

Did "Tepanje" has some meaning on slovenian?


----------



## _VeNeT_

^^ Nope.


----------



## BND

^^ Lopata is "horse hoof" in Hungarian (it should be written Lópata BTW)


----------



## DJZG

BND said:


> ^^ Lopata is "horse hoof" in Hungarian (it should be written Lópata BTW)


funny... in croatia 'lopata' also means shovel... 'zima' is also winter, and 'tepanje' is a verb when talking to a child with that special voice :lol:

btw... 'zahod' on slovenian is "WC" on croatian :banana:


----------



## Verso

^^ Yes, we know you guys laugh your asses off every time you see Ljubljana-toilet. 



vardar said:


> And you call yourself a highway freak hno:


Ok ok, maybe I'll go to Bled for the weekend.  I've already driven there, it just wasn't fully open yet. 



Junkie said:


> Did "Tepanje" has some meaning on slovenian?


No. Fighting would be "tep*e*nje", but I don't think anyone uses this word. Otherwise it's "*pre*tepanje".


----------



## H123Laci

Verso said:


> ^ That's only motorways; there's also 47 km of 4-lane expressways. We're approaching 500 km. :cheers:


500km for slovenia is the same as 2500km for hungary...

wow, thats enourmous figure!
we've just passed the 1000km...

(but i think we need no another 1500km now. 
we need about 500km new motorway and 3000km upgraded main road)


----------



## muravidék

we also have exit called Bič, which means the WHIP:lol:


----------



## muravidék

Verso said:


> ^ That's only motorways; there's also 47 km of 4-lane expressways. We're approaching 500 km. :cheers:


Actually, with the new, "officially still not opened" (but who cares, right Verso:lol Radovljica section, we have just surpassed 500 km (501 km, where a 2-lane Karavanke tunnel is also included, right Verso) :cheers:


----------



## H123Laci

muravidék said:


> we also have exit called Bič, which means the WHIP:lol:


is it pronounced as the english "bitch"?


----------



## muravidék

yes, fortunately :lol:


----------



## Verso

muravidék said:


> Actually, with the new, "officially still not opened" (but who cares, right Verso:lol Radovljica section, we have just surpassed 500 km (501 km, where a 2-lane Karavanke tunnel is also included, right Verso) :cheers:


I thought you said 494 km. If you add 5 km (Vrba - Radovljica), it's not 501, but 499 km.  But I don't include Karavanke Tunnel, and I have anyway somewhat different figures: 437 km of motorways (including the newest 5 km), 47 km of 4-lane expressways and 5 km of a (temporary) one-way motorway. This sums up to 484 km (+5 km one way), so not 500 km yet.

PS: stop sending me PMs, I have to calculate all those motorways first.  I never reply to long PMs quickly.


----------



## DJZG

H123Laci said:


> is it pronounced as the english "bitch"?


hehehe.... i never thought about english pronounciation... but it's true :lol: sounds like bitch :lol:


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> I thought you said 494 km. If you add 5 km (Vrba - Radovljica), it's not 501, but 499 km.  But I don't include Karavanke Tunnel, and I have anyway somewhat different figures: 437 km of motorways (including the newest 5 km), 47 km of 4-lane expressways and 5 km of a (temporary) one-way motorway. This sums up to 484 km (+5 km one way), so not 500 km yet.
> 
> PS: stop sending me PMs, I have to calculate all those motorways first.  I never reply to long PMs quickly.


hehe interesting. while i was counting projected kilometers for Croatia for this year, i came up with number 999 km  so same shit position as you


----------



## keber

vardar said:


> Verso i think you need to give us some visual evidence, otherwise I'd have to agree with your countryman


I've driven there two days ago, but I didn't bother with taking photos.


----------



## muravidék

DJZG said:


> hehehe.... i never thought about english pronounciation... but it's true :lol: sounds like bitch :lol:


me neither:lol:

and on croatian A1 one tunnel has also funny name Ledenik, whick in slovenian means "a glacier" 
glacier, winter^^, brrrrr:lol:


----------



## Verso

^^ You're right, it's more like 26 km (or 26.7 km to be precise) missing.


----------



## keber

Tauernautobahn said:


> Any news from the Sentvid tunnel?


News: :speech:
Minister of traffic approved opening of this tunnel, it will be opened in both directions this night or at latest until tomorrow morning. Speed limit will be set at 80 km/h and not 100 km/h as previously designed.
Hopefully additional closures are not needed any more.


----------



## Tauernautobahn

keber said:


> News: :speech:
> Minister of traffic approved opening of this tunnel, it will be opened in both directions this night or at latest until tomorrow morning. Speed limit will be set at 80 km/h and not 100 km/h as previously designed.
> Hopefully additional closures are not needed any more.


:cheers2::cheers1::rock:
So maybe I'll see it in September :banana:


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## keber

Finally, opened again:


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## RipleyLV

Sweet!


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## Verso

Interesting video with the northern and eastern Ljubljana bypasses:


Dejko said:


>


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## Verso

Video of Šentvid tunnel, northern Ljubljana bypass and driving to the city-centre:


Dejko said:


>


Or click for high quality.


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## ChrisZwolle

Nice video. Did you make it?


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## ChrisZwolle

Comparing Ljubljana to Orlando is funny though  Technically he's right.


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## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nice video. Did you make it?


No, I quoted it. I'd have to buy a camera first, or make 20-second movies.


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## Timon91

It's a very nice video (and good music ) Lots of exits on the H-3


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## keber

Yes, 8 exits in 10 km (7 in first 6 km from west) + interchanges on beginning and the end of H3.

Together with the largest traffic density in Slovenia (between 60.000 and 70.000 AADT for 4-laned expressway) those exits cause many delays in peak hours (transit traffic is mostly diverted on A1 and A2). Still, expansion is not foreseen in near future.


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## Timon91

^^In the video it said that it would soon be expanded to 2×3


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## ChrisZwolle

70.000 is indeed a value where you have to think about a widening. Technically, it could handle more traffic. (the A28 in my city handles 95.000 vehicles a day on 2x2). Maybe they should expand the exit lanes, so it can buffer some more traffic.


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## keber

double


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## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> 70.000 is indeed a value where you have to think about a widening. Technically, it could handle more traffic. (the A28 in my city handles 95.000 vehicles a day on 2x2). Maybe they should expand the exit lanes, so it can buffer some more traffic.


Mostly impossible, b/c the most frequent exits are also entrances at the same time.



Timon91 said:


> ^^In the video it said that it would soon be expanded to 2×3


It isn't correct though. Only the western bypass (A2) is scheduled for 2×3 in the near future (with an additional rest area). IMO the whole ringroad should be widened in 5-10 years.


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## keber

It can easily handle more traffic, but only off traffic peaks. In traffic peaks many exits are clogged, because they lead to ordinary city roads with traffic lights. Actually, H3 was already 6-laned in early 80-ies, but with no acceleration/deceleration lanes, which were pretty soon introduced with closure of third lane and changing it into ordinary hard shoulder. From early eighties:









About expansion; video is wrong, there is absolutely no study made about widening H3. Widening is currently planned only for western part of Ljubljana ring on A2 between both interchanges (with H3 and A1), about 2,5 km long, to be finished in 2013.

@Chris: complete redesign of main exit/city road intersections (4 of them) would greatly improve traffic conditions. Widening of H3 involves constructing new overpasses and moving exit ramps towards residential and business buildings, which are very close to H3. 

















Not impossible, but sure pretty expensive. That's why expansion is still not in main motorway plans. Also main city roads will be expanded in next 10 years, which will improve situation on H3.


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## ChrisZwolle

Verso said:


> Mostly impossible, b/c the most frequent exits are also entrances at the same time.


You can make 2 exit lanes or maybe even three. So, not longer exit lanes, but wider ones, so you can buffer more traffic. Or give the exiting traffic priority at the traffic lights with longer green phases.


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## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> You can make 2 exit lanes or maybe even three.


The H3 already has de facto 2 exit lanes by (most important) exits (one wide lane).


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## keber

ChrisZwolle said:


> You can make 2 exit lanes or maybe even three. So, not longer exit lanes, but wider ones, so you can buffer more traffic. Or give the exiting traffic priority at the traffic lights with longer green phases.


(damn SSC ...)

Main Ljubljana city roads were constructed between 1960 and 1980 and were appropriate for the traffic of that time. However more or less nothing was done later (except some small modifications), traffic however increased manyfold since. Traffic lights were optimised as much as possible (some thing could still be improved, but not substantially), main problem are 4-laned main roads, which are too narrow for today's traffic. Second problem are intersections with exits to motorway ring. A lot was done, for example, with opening of A2 between A2/H3 interchange and Šentvid exit through Šentvid tunnel, which virtually emptied the most clogged intersection over H3, which was designed for transit traffic and therefore had big capacity (but not big enough).

Still: width of main city roads is the main bottleneck, which holds back traffic especially in the morning rush hour. Increasing width of exit ramps wouldn't help much, often tailbacks on H3 are two-laned and 2 or 3 km long (I need to take some pictures of that sometime). Traffic lights are already optimised on that intersections and cannot do much, if queue is continuing until city center. And situation is worsening rapidly, transit time from center to H3 in peak hours has almost doubled in just two years. H3 alone doesn't have noticeable jams in the afternoon (except in case of accidents), but mornings are critical.

However city officials are not in big hurry to make something about it. Widening of first city road should begin in few years, but won't be finished at least until 2015 (even today is already too late) - for a mere 2,7 km. hno:
And even worse: first plans of road widening are quite unambiguous, looks like, that traffic experts weren't invited to collaborate.


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## ChrisZwolle

These are safer for motorcyclists.


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## x-type

i saw a plenty of them in Italy, but they have doubled upper part. and this thiner lower part looks extremely strong


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## Timon91

What motorway sections in Slovenia actually require the famous vignette? I just ask it because I don't want to read the rest of this and the previous thread


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## keber

Timon91 said:


> What motorway sections in Slovenia actually require the famous vignette?


All motorway and 4-laned expressway sections.


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## Verso

As well as the Pesnica roundabout (A1×H2×G3×R437, north of Maribor). :doh:


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## KHS




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## Mateusz

Verso said:


> As well as the Pesnica roundabout (A1×H2×G3×R437, north of Maribor). :doh:


It should have good junction :bash:


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## Verso

^ What do you mean?

-------------------------

Ah yeah, UFO was observed by some nutcases again.. Funny cartoon though.


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## ChrisZwolle

I heard rumors about a cheaper (shorter period) vignette for Slovenia in 2009. Verso, can you confirm?


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## Mateusz

Verso said:


> ^ What do you mean?
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> Ah yeah, UFO was observed by some nutcases again.. Funny cartoon though.


I meant that this roundabout should be converted to interchange ^^


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## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> I heard rumors about a cheaper (shorter period) vignette for Slovenia in 2009. Verso, can you confirm?


Yes, there are rumors about it, but we'll have to wait a couple of weeks more. The PM said it would happen "almost certainly".


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## Verso

Mateusz said:


> I meant that this roundabout should be converted to interchange ^^


I don't know, I think it's fine as it is, the H2 soon won't be so important any more. And going from A1 to A5 doesn't require using the roundabout.


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## keber

A2:


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## keber

A2, last remaining part under construction in direction of Croatia - construction update at Trebnje - most of the part is not pictured because of difficult access to construction area:
(14 km long, should be completed by the end of 2009)


keber said:


> Začetek trase; podvoz priključka Trebnje - zahod:
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> Predora sta že lep čas zvrtana, dolina pred predorom pa je že skoraj vsa zasuta:
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> V predoru delajo tudi v nedeljo popoldne:
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> Postrojena mehanizacija počiva:
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> Podvoz lokalne ceste v smeri Žužemberka:
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> Območje bivšega lokalnega smučišča (zelen steber je bil od vlečnice):
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> Žerjav za gradbišče viadukta Ponikve:
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> Viadukt gre v tej smeri (smer LJ). Zgradbe na desni se bodo porušile.
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> Blizu priključka Mirna Peč dela napredujejo dobro, čeprav so se konkretno začela šele kake dva meseca nazaj
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> Staro vs. novo:
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> Vrtanje minerskih lukenj na zadnjem ovinku pred avtocesto.


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## Mateusz

Any news or updates about A4 ? ^^


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## Verso

*Ljubljana to Budapest on motorway*

^^ Maribor - Ptuj opens next year, Ptuj - Croatia in 2011.


*Fast to Hungary*









Photo: Jože Pojbič/Delo

Today they opened the last 26 km of the A5 motorway to Hungary, between Lenart / Spodnja Senarska and Vučja vas. All 80 km of A5 are now open for traffic. Part of the new section is also Cenkova tunnel (600 m). The whole A5 was worth 823 million euros. With exception of missing Maribor bypass (to open next year) and partly two-lane Hungarian M70 expressway, you can now drive from Ljubljana to Budapest on motorway. As of now, there are 489 km of motorways in Slovenia.

http://www.dars.si/Default.aspx?mod=AktualnoDisplay&anewsid=862&lang=2

:dance: :dance:


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## radi6404

Verso said:


> The new section of A2 Peračica - Vrba (Kranj - Jesenice):


That motorway doesn´t really look new, I guess the part is 1 year old because I know that new motorways look way different. How old is it or has it aged so fast that it looks like a 2 years old motorway in no time. When a new motorway is being opened everything shines and reflects, everything is white and clean, the asphalt still doesn´t looked like dried and as a whole it gives an impression as if it is empty, it´s not the case there at all.


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## Verso

^ It's new, and I think it's quite shiny, but here, they rarely open new motorways immediately after paving them, so they wear out a bit before.


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## radi6404

Oh I see, why don´t they open them after paving, in a country which needs motorways because of still mssing motorway sections.


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## Verso

They still do a lot after paving. Paving is not the last process here. Or machinery just drives too much before opening. :lol:


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## PLH

^^ I't must be fun smoking Wests in aa west


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## keber

x-type said:


> and toilet is west


In your language, only.:lol:


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## Timon91

Luckily


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## Mateusz

Is is something about zachod :nuts:


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## Verso

'Zahod' is west in Slovenian, and toilet in Croatian.  (in Slovenian toilet is called 'stranišče' (although we use 'WC' mostly), and in Croatian west is called 'zapad' (also in old Slovenian); 'zapad' in modern Slovenian otherwise means for example in economics 'zapad menice' = '_maturity_ of a bill') I hope we're done with languages here.


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## Verso

I have to post this one:


RKC said:


> i remember when we were first in serbia with my brother he was really pissed off when he found out they call Budapest Budimpesta, hehe. (for non hungarians: budi means toilet, budim means my toilet )


A lot of signs for toilet in Slovenia.


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## Timon91

I guess I'll just follow the signs for "urinoir" and I will be all right


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## Verso

Anyway...  They decided to extend the Coastal Expressway to the (Croatian) border. In the future there will be 7 motorways/expressways to Croatia. :nuts:


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## ChrisZwolle

That means a through motorway/expressway from the Italian A4 to Pula?


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## Verso

^ No, that one is planned anyway. It's about the one close to the coast. There will be two expressways from Koper to Croatia.


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## Timon91

Verso said:


> In the future there will be 7 motorways/expressways to Croatia. :nuts:


Ahhh, you're good friends, right?


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## Verso

The best. :lol:


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## H123Laci

^^ now you should chum up with google to make your countries route plannable... :lol:


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## keber

Verso said:


> Anyway...  They decided to extend the Coastal Expressway to the (Croatian) border.


Actually extension of H5 will never reach Croatian border.
New expressway is planned behind coast area.

But I can remember only 5 other express/motorways leading to Croatia. Two are in operation/construction, two are planned to be built in next 5 or 10 years and 5th in far future.


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## Verso

I counted the future expressway by Metlika. :lol:


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## keber

So did I. Where are other two of yours?


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## Verso

H5 (apparently not) and the one to Črnomelj, Vinica, (Bosiljevo). There will be a very short branch from Metlika to the border. :lol:


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## keber

I think, that in the end only one branch will be built, at least until state border.


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## P.C.Dolabella

There where agreements of coordination for road connections between Slovenia and Croatia. 
Of three planed Motorway connection from Croatian side all three of them are finished and from Slovenian side one (the second one is partly under construction). Of two planed expressway connections (Pula - Koper and Varaždin - Ormož) from Croatian side one is finished (in half profile) but the second one Varaždin - Ormož is not the question of "far future" but is also partly build from both side thanks to good local relations.


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## P.C.Dolabella

Verso said:


> H5 (apparently not) and the one to Črnomelj, Vinica, (Bosiljevo). There will be a very short branch from Metlika to the border. :lol:


Not coordinated, so...


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## keber

x-type said:


> Kangoo definitely doesn't have speed limit. anyway, i'm not sure about cargo versions. i didn't pay attention about it, i'll look around at roads if they have stickers


In Slovenia even cargo versions don't have speed limit. I think up to 3,5 tonnes.


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## x-type

i think it worths in HR too, but it's about max weight, so if Kangoo can have 3,5 t, then it gets sticker


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## Dino S

keber said:


> >>> Those connections with Croatia are not important for Slovenia so there is no reason to build them faster!
> A2 is very important for Slovenia, it should be build as fast as possible (but sadly it is not).


Yeah the missing part is important, I meant HC Koper-Dragonja and A4 from Draženci to Gruškovje! And there is no need for Express road from Črnomelj to Croatian border.


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## Verso

^^ H7 is by Lendava.



Mateusz said:


> These pics would be great to thread about retro pictures


Oh, you meant that thread. Ok, I'll post one of them there.


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## x-type

Dino S said:


> and A4 from Draženci to Gruškovje! .


wow, very clever thinking. in that case A9 from Graz to Spielfeld was not important at all


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## keber

Dino S said:


> Yeah the missing part is important, I meant HC Koper-Dragonja and A4 from Draženci to Gruškovje! And there is no need for Express road from Črnomelj to Croatian border.


We need good roads and currently apart from motorways and expressways, we don't have them.


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## Verso

Tarvisio has been added to a sign by Jesenice (sorry, I didn't have camera with me):


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## keber

Verso said:


> (sorry, I didn't have camera with me):


So, why did you put the picture?:lol:


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## x-type

how long is that viaduct where photo (or whatever that is if it was not taken by camera   ) is taken?


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## Timon91

^^Is it a viaduct? How come that the sign is standing next to the road? Or am I crazy again?
He probably took it with his phone? :lol:


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## PLH

^^ It can be on a platform or a jib


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## Timon91

^^What about the trees?


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## PLH

^^ These are special only-in-Slovenia tall ones 

OK, so there's a steep slope - does it satisfy you?


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## Verso

Ok, camera on my mobile. That's viaduct Podmežakla IV, nothing special, less than 400 m.


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## Verso

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 18 (2 members and 16 guests)

:shifty:


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## Timon91

^^It's me


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## Verso

^ Absolutely. :lol: But so many guests...


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## Timon91

They're spying us :lol:


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## Verso

We forgot to post the new section of A2 east of Novo mesto:


keber said:


> Sicer imamo ta 7,8 km dolg odsek, odprt konec letošnjega junija, že slikan, vendar je bil takrat še napol v gradnji. No, sedaj sem ga slikal v smeri Zagreba, ko je v polnem obratovanju, razen počivališča, ki je še v gradnji.
> 
> Konec prejšnega odseka za Novim mestom:
> 
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> Na tem mestu smo prej zavili desno, sedaj gremo naravnost. Avtocesta je drugače kar precej zavita.
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> Vsi nadvozi (4) imajo novo, precej elegantno zasnovo
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> Prvi in najdaljši viadukt Jelše (342 m):
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> Razgled z viadukta za spremembo ni oviran:
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> Za viaduktom je počivališče, ki je še v gradnji, levi del je že skoraj končan:
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> Za počivališčem kratek ekodukt:
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> Po gričevnatem in gozdnatem območju (takoj za drugim viaduktom Dobovo, 250 m):
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> Še en nadvoz, malo spominjajo na stare nadvoze s hitre ceste:
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> Diamantni priključek Kronovo:
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> Nadvoz bolj od blizu:
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> In na koncu odseka še tretji viadukt (Kronovo, 160 m). Za tem viaduktom se prične avtocesta, odprta že leta 2004:


No shiny crash barriers. :lol:


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## ChrisZwolle

Any news from a cheaper vignette?


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## x-type

keber said:


> Actually yes, because it serves to local traffic of Ptuj area. Maribor-Ptuj has double amount of traffic than Ptuj - CRO border (18.500 AADT against 8600). Alomost 20.000 vehicles daily certainly deserve motorway.


well, 8600 for border crossing is really not a poor result. and ignoring fact that road is part of extremely important international corridor is just lousy. sometimes when i read slovenian aadt facts i ask myself do we have traffic in Croatia at all, and why the hell are we building all those motorways for


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## Verso

x-type said:


> well, 8600 for border crossing is really not a poor result.


Building a big, wide, fat (and shiny) border crossing is really not a problem, the problem is the rest of the road, which has the same AADT. Actually, the border crossing is pretty much already built; you know, our notorious 0.6-km-long motorway.


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## keber

Verso said:


> Won't it mostly use the existing carriageway?


True, but close to state border the valley is pretty narrow and has probably quite demanding geology (as has proven A2 on Croatian side). Northern part will probably be pretty easy and inexpensive.

http://www.dpa.mop.gov.si/doc/drazenci_gruskovje_povzetek.pdf
(second page has a map)

Still, motorway will be built, but I don't know, if 2011 is right date, especially considering incoming economy crisis.


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## x-type

Verso said:


> Building a big, wide, fat (and shiny) border crossing is really not a problem, the problem is the rest of the road, which has the same AADT. Actually, the border crossing is pretty much already built; you know, our notorious 0.6-km-long motorway.


you're not that much right. most of hard terrain is at croatian side of border. there you would have only some 5 km of harder terrain from Kozminci to border. north from Kozminci there is totaly flat valley. maybe there should be 1 km more little bit more difficult (but not categorized as difficulty actually) terrain at Podlehnik bypass.


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## Verso

I wasn't talking about terrain, but motorways with a low AADT being a problem as such.


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## x-type

what is aadt at Karavanke?


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## Verso

6,604 last year, why?


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## Timon91

^^Are there jams at Karavanke in the summer months?


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## Rijeka

keber said:


> Who knows.:dunno:
> 
> Officially it should be finished until end of 2011. But I wouldn't bet on that, because it will be relatively expensive project, and pay-off is not pretty high.


I don't understand why do take a pay-off into consideration now you have the vignette system. Building a few km of motorways won't make any difference on income from vignette sale. I suppose there are only few people in Ptuj who didn't by the vignette because there is no motorway till Ptuj, so the impact after the A4 is built on vignettes sale won't definitely be considerable.


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## Verso

Timon91 said:


> ^^Are there jams at Karavanke in the summer months?


Prior to Schengen there used to be, but I don't remember much of them this summer.



Rijeka said:


> I don't understand why do take a pay-off into consideration now you have the vignette system. Building a few km of motorways won't make any difference on income from vignette sale. I suppose there are only few people in Ptuj who didn't by the vignette because there is no motorway till Ptuj, so the impact after the A4 is built on vignettes sale won't definitely be considerable.


But you have to maintain it.


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## keber

Timon91 said:


> ^^Are there jams at Karavanke in the summer months?


After Slovenia into Schengen entry almost none.

>>> Building a few km of motorways won't make any difference on income from vignette sale.
Precisely. Looking in such view, additional motorways are only additional cost and no profit. Tolls from vignettes usually don''t rise much with openings of new motorways, so construction of new motorways must be considered carefully.


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## Timon91

Verso said:


> Prior to Schengen there used to be, but I don't remember much of them this summer.


Thanks, so it's not like the Gotthard tunnel or sth? I mean, you can keep waiting there for hours.


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## snupix

keber said:


> so construction of new motorways must be considered carefully.


Especially if they lead to Croatia... :|


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## x-type

Verso said:


> 6,604 last year, why?


because it seems to be much more important to you than Pyhrn route. i just cannot believe that you find Gruškovje as a minor border crossing


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## Zanovijetalo

snupix said:


> Especially if they lead to Croatia... :|


Oh, in that case postpone the construction till after 2050 or so. 

It makes every proud Slovene feel like a little god.


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## Verso

x-type said:


> because it seems to be much more important to you than Pyhrn route. i just cannot believe that you find Gruškovje as a minor border crossing


Of course it's much more important; in Ljubljana we don't need that road whatsoever. :lol: But other than that, I didn't say Gruškovje was a minor border crossing. And I don't know what the Karavanke Tunnel has to do with this anyway. It's not motorway, it has just one tube. Are you aware of where the traffic used to cross the Karawank Mountains prior to 1991? Especially trucks! The road between Ptuj and the Croatian border (except in summer) isn't bad at all: speed limit mostly 90 km/h (not even one village), fine pavement and low traffic. :cheers:

Q: Is any nation as annoying in regards to foreign motorways as Croats are in regards to Slovenian motorways?
A: No.


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## x-type

because they don't have SLO for neighbours. you are so silly with negating an importance and duty to build motorways to east, too. if you don't consider Karavanke as a motorway, i don't have anything against that there is 2 way road long 8 km with 24/7 supervision and intervention vehicles ready in each moment at Gruškovje.
really, don't you find silly and stupid the fact that almost each motorway in your country ends 20 km before border?


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## Verso

x-type said:


> because they don't have SLO for neighbours.


1. Last time I checked, we had 3 other neighbors.
2. There are a lot of other countries not having motorways to neighboring countries.



x-type said:


> you are so silly with negating an importance and duty to build motorways to east, too. if you don't consider Karavanke as a motorway, i don't have anything against that there is 2 way road long 8 km with 24/7 supervision and intervention vehicles ready in each moment at Gruškovje.


I don't get any point here.



x-type said:


> really, don't you find silly and stupid the fact that almost each motorway in your country ends 20 km before border?


Let's see:
- A1 reaches the border
- A2 reaches the Croatian border
- A2 reaches the Austrian border (except for the Karavanke Tunnel, which is a special object)
- A3 reaches the border
- A5 reaches the border
- H4 reaches the border
- H5 reaches the border
- H7 (almost) reaches the border


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## PLH

x-type said:


> really, don't you find silly and stupid the fact that almost each motorway in your country ends 20 km before border?


As for the connection between Ljubljana and Rijeka, the anser is quite simple, even for a foreigner. Slovenians have NO iterest in building a highway connection with Croatioan coast, that's why they focused on Lj - Kr connection.


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## x-type

Verso said:


> Let's see:
> - A1 reaches the *Austrian *border
> - A2 reaches the_ Croatian_ border :WOW:
> - A2 reaches the *Austrian* border (except for the Karavanke Tunnel, which is a special object)
> - A3 reaches the* Italian *border
> - A5 reaches the *Hungarian* border
> - H4 reaches the *Italian *border
> - H5 reaches the *Italian* border



i wouldn't say anything if you had some short border with Croatia


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## RS.ban

radi6404 said:


> Good one!
> 
> Well, RS ban, it´s not really important, but it looks as if the country doesn´t have money to asphalt the whole motorway so they add good asphalt only on the driving lanes and together with the extraordinarily high vigniettes it looks silly.


If it is not important that it shouldn´t matter.


----------



## keber

Most anticipated news today in Slovenia: new government didn't change current vignette system, for now it stays:
- yearly vignette 55 € (can be bought from today)
- half-year vignette 35 €
- no short term vignettes for now.
That could change next year, maybe even until summer.


----------



## Verso

_:croatianattackexpected,thethreadendsinruins:_


----------



## RS.ban

keber said:


> Most anticipated news today in Slovenia: new government didn't change current vignette system, for now it stays:
> - yearly vignette 55 € (can be bought from today)
> - half-year vignette 35 €
> - no short term vignettes for now.
> That could change next year, maybe even until summer.


what a surprise!!!


----------



## Verso

Actually it is a surprise. I expected delay of selling annual vignettes until 1.1.2009, and meanwhile they could introduce short-term vignette.


----------



## RS.ban

I am not, so i know better slovenian mentality than you


----------



## keber

It was expected and forecasted by all media and even some officials, that yearly vignettes will be more expensive (in range of 80-100 €), especially with increasing EU pressure to change current vignette system. That's why it is a surprise, that nothing changed.


----------



## Verso

RS.ban said:


> I am not, so i know better slovenian mentality than you


Stop brainfarting, BL. You don't even have any idea what it's about. The cheap vignettes (for Slovenes) were introduced by the previous government, so they could win the elections. But, they didn't. The new government only just formed, so there's not enough time by 1.12. to change anything, b/c that's when annual vignettes have to be on sale at the latest. If they only raised price of annual vignettes, they would subsequently also have to raise price of 6-month vignettes, which is even worse for foreigners. I said it was a surprise for me, b/c they discovered that the law says that annual vignette isn't even obligatory to introduce, so they wouldn't even introduce it until 1.1.2009, and by that time they could introduce short-term vignette. Of course we'd piss off, once they kept telling us for more than half a year, that annual vignettes would be on sale by 1.12. at the latest. And as for your "Slovenian mentality" thing, you'll see short-term vignettes next year. Now go inform yourself next time, before you make stupid remarks.


----------



## RS.ban

^^well than i was better informed than you. Coz 3 days ago i have read an article about Slovenian vignettes, introducing new short and long period vignettes and all that in light of new government. And author of that txt expected that new government would not change this policy at least for now. So i am good enough informed.


----------



## Verso

Well, there are many "authors of texts" with all kinds of expectations. :lol: I'm even more updated than you: still today it was expected that annual vignette would get more expensive.


----------



## RS.ban

did they?


----------



## Verso

Read the 436th post again and stop harassing me. No one is happy. We already have 50 million euros of minus, not mentioning that the EU froze its subsidies.


----------



## RS.ban

well you are the one replaying my posts i mean you started. The point is that i have expected that and you didn´t and i was right you were wrong end of story.


----------



## Dino S

Verso said:


> Read the 436th post again and stop harassing me. *No one is happy*. We already have 50 million euros of minus, not mentioning that the EU froze its subsidies.


That's a big lie because I'm happy and I know a lot of people who are happy!


----------



## Verso

Maybe you are happy, but I suppose your parents, who as tax payers will pay for the minus, aren't.



RS.ban said:


> well you are the one replaying my posts i mean you started. The point is that i have expected that and you didn´t and i was right you were wrong end of story.


You expected that b/c of some strange "Slovenian mentality" thing in your head. The same "Slovenian mentality" will introduce short-term vignette as soon as possible.


----------



## RS.ban

it was joke you have smiley after that sentence. 
And i expected because i have read this article, as already explained. 
And if it was up to Slovenia they would leave that way but Brussels is pushing.


----------



## Verso

No we wouldn't, b/c we _already_ have 50 million euros of minus b/c of this system. Even the previous government would change it, but it's no longer in power. In fact, if they had won, I'm sure they would've already changed it, b/c there would be no problems in forming a new government and thus time going by. But considering they would no longer be in power, they didn't wanna make fools of themselves by changing it. Also, when we get a more expensive annual vignette, they will be able to accuse the new government for doing it. :lol:


----------



## Dino S

Verso said:


> Maybe you are happy, but I suppose your parents, who as tax payers will pay for the minus, aren't.


My parents are not happy? Why? Because my father instead of cca 200€ now has to pay 55€?


----------



## Verso

The worst is actually for tax payers non-drivers. :lol:


----------



## H123Laci

*Croatia and Slovenia is route plannable on google.maps!!!*

hip-hip-hurray! :banana::banana::banana:


----------



## Verso

I guess I'm thankful for small mercies.  But the region south of Ptuj (Haloze) is the poorest part of Slovenia.


----------



## keber

...


----------



## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


> There is enough money. It's a matter of how you redistribute that money.


wow. thats the point. :cheers:

may I use it as a motto in my signature?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Sure thing


----------



## H123Laci

Verso said:


> That's sth I don't quite understand either. I bet it's even faster in summer, when the H2 is totally jammed (and you _can_ bypass the Pesnica roundabout on a road west of it). If I go to Villach, I don't make a big deal at all about the fact that I need vignette in Austria. I know it's much cheaper, but I wouldn't buy it for Villach either, not to mention buying it, sticking it and especially peeling it off. :nuts: To be frank, I wouldn't even use the Karavanke tunnel, I'd just go to Kranjska Gora and over Korensko sedlo (Wurzenpass). Big deal. :dunno:


Hi. My name is Cheap, Charlie Cheap.
Welcome to the club. :lol:


----------



## SeanT

One thing you have to be aware of!!! The money is never enough:banana:


----------



## Timon91

Yeah, if one thing always lacks, it's money


----------



## Fern

pijanec said:


> This are long-term financial liabilities of our motorway company. If you take into account that reveneus from current toll system are more or less constant you can see that we need a new system to finance our debt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should also note that we already have the highest taxes in the world so there is not a lot of room there either.


So if I got it right Slovenia has one nationalised motorway company? 
Perhaps you should reform your system and surrender the sector partially to privately owned companies, making concessions or management contracts with whoever offers the best price-service ratio. In Portugal it is also the companies who manage the motorways that are responsible for upgrading them, following the contract agreements.


----------



## Mateusz

Is bypass of Maribor finished ?


----------



## pijanec

Fern said:


> So if I got it right Slovenia has one nationalised motorway company?
> Perhaps you should reform your system and surrender the sector partially to privately owned companies, making concessions or management contracts with whoever offers the best price-service ratio. In Portugal it is also the companies who manage the motorways that are responsible for upgrading them, following the contract agreements.


Yes, we have one company. Privatization is not possible as then it would be hard to steal tax-payers money and seconldy, our motorway network is almost finished. And we use vignette for cars so it would be hard to fairly redistribute money.



Mateusz said:


> Is bypass of Maribor finished ?


In spring 2009.


----------



## Fern

pijanec said:


> Yes, we have one company. Privatization is not possible as then it would be hard to steal tax-payers money and seconldy, our motorway network is almost finished. And we use vignette for cars so it would be hard to fairly redistribute money.


That's exactly the point. We have over 40 motorways in Portugal but throughout their lifespan they will need to be upgraded and expanded. Hence the concessionaire's obligation to cover the costs. I'm not saying this is the best method but this way no one is in debt.

I'm not sure how your vignette system works though. But even if you pay a flat rate for the usage of any motorway, that's the same system you get in England when you travel by train, and still there are several competing companies operating train services.


----------



## Verso

Aren't concessionaires famous for not maintaining motorways properly?


----------



## paF4uko

There was some big construction side of a tunnel somewhere between Portorož and Koper this summer, parallel to the 2 lane "primorska cesta" (which I love so much because of the sights  ). Do you have pictures of it?


----------



## Dino S

paF4uko said:


> There was some big construction side of a tunnel somewhere between Portorož and Koper this summer, parallel to the 2 lane "primorska cesta" (which I love so much because of the sights  ). Do you have pictures of it?


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=28572014&postcount=350


----------



## paF4uko

^^ Hvala! Nisem vedel da je to bilo hitra cesta...


----------



## Verso

paF4uko said:


> ^^ Hvala! Nisem vedel da je to bilo hitra cesta...


=)


----------



## H123Laci

paF4uko said:


> ^^ Hvala! Nisem *vedel* da je to bilo hitra cesta...


"vedel" is a hungarian slang word also, it means: quaff (drinks as a pelican) :lol:


----------



## Verso

^ I think paF4uko didn't _know_, rather than quaff. Or maybe he quaffed on the expressway. :lol:


----------



## paF4uko

^^ Yep, I _didn't know_...  Maybe we should use _znati_ instead of _vedeti_ to avoid confusions with Hungarians, but then it would tend more to Croatian... :lol:
Actually there was a quaffing part in Koper... :naughty:


----------



## Timon91

Stupid languages


----------



## Fern

Verso said:


> Aren't concessionaires famous for not maintaining motorways properly?


To be honest our concessionaires have been doing a good job in that respect. 

This is the CRIL a motorway (IC) that isnt concessioned


















And one right next door that is managed by Brisa (the A5)



















I'm not sure where you heard that but surely in our country the motorways that are not managed by concessionaires are in a much worse state of disrepair, simply because as you know the state does not invest the money it earns from taxing motorists back into the roads.


----------



## H123Laci

Fern said:


> ...simply because as you know the state does not invest the money it *earns* from taxing motorists back into the roads.


earns?? you mean rips-off... :bash:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

French Concessionaires do a good job maintaining an Autoroute imo. I've never encountered a bad-pavement tolled motorway there. The toll-free motorways are a quite some other story though.


----------



## H123Laci

well, I've never encountered a bad-pavement road there... :lol:
(nor tolled motorway neither any other road...)

and tolled motorways are quite expensive...hno:


----------



## Verso

Fern said:


> I'm not sure where you heard that


IMO concessionaires tend not to care about us, whereas state is supposed to be a more responsible institution (although it often isn't), it's supposed not to be all about money (although it often is). I know that many Italian toll-free expressways are in a bad condition, but what about toll motorways, administered by the state? Are there any such at all? I think there are some.


----------



## Fern

H123Laci said:


> earns?? you mean rips-off... :bash:


Or that 



ChrisZwolle said:


> French Concessionaires do a good job maintaining an Autoroute imo. I've never encountered a bad-pavement tolled motorway there. The toll-free motorways are a quite some other story though.


That seems to be the case in most countries I have visited. The reason being that the contract obliges the concessionaire to keep to a good standard of maintenance or risk losing its priviledges.



Verso said:


> IMO concessionaires tend not to care about us, whereas state is supposed to be a more responsible institution (although it often isn't), it's supposed not to be all about money (although it often is). I know that many Italian toll-free expressways are in a bad condition, but what about toll motorways, administered by the state? Are there any such at all? I think there are some.


The state is the first to let the property it's responsible for fall into disrepair. It is so complex and disorganised that often some areas are favoured at the expense of others which are overlooked. And we all know in this forum how motorists are disregarded and what's more, public transport is often not an alternative. 

You cannot forget that in most countries it is hard for the state to invest more on roads especially due to green lobbyists.


----------



## SeanT

That´s why communism didn´t (don´t) work. When everything is ours ( the People!!!) and NOTHING is mine, then nobody really cares.hno:


----------



## RawLee

SeanT said:


> That´s why communism didn´t (don´t) work. When everything is ours ( the People!!!) and NOTHING is mine, then nobody really cares.hno:


Thats not entirely true. A lot of things were of higher quality than now.


----------



## H123Laci

SeanT said:


> That´s why communism didn´t (don´t) work. When everything is ours ( the People!!!) and NOTHING is mine, then nobody really cares.hno:


well, our motorways are really in good condition. and only 2 of them are in concession/ppp: M5/M6.


----------



## x-type

H123Laci said:


> well, our motorways are really in good condition. and only 2 of them are in concession/ppp: M5/M6.


i thought that M5 lost concession when toll booths were removed. but concessionaires probably just made a deal about entering into vignette system


----------



## Verso

Quite some snow on the border crossing Korensko sedlo/Wurzenpaß with Austria:


----------



## Federicoft

Is that a motorway?


----------



## Timon91

^^I don't think so.


----------



## Federicoft

Timon91 said:


> ^^I don't think so.


Ok that's reassuring.
I've read there are problems in Austria and Slovenia due to snow. I'll drive there next week so for a moment I've felt myself going pale.


----------



## Verso

^^ Where are you going?

This is by the Karawank Tunnel, btw:


----------



## Federicoft

St Anton am Arlberg but we have to pick up a friend in Trieste first and since the car owner has a Slovenian vignette he want to pass through Slovenia and Karawank tunnel (which I think is an utterly irrational idea btw).


----------



## Verso

Why? I don't know where exactly he lives, but from the center of Trieste to Villach (A2×A10×A11) it's about 11 km less and 1.9 € cheaper through Slovenia than via Udine.


----------



## Federicoft

Cause we have to go on the other side of Austria. :tongue3:
East-West links in Austria (especially coming from south) are rather bad, it's better to pass through Veneto and Trentino or (if coming from north) Bavaria.

Why 1.9 € cheaper? If you have a vignette you don't have to pay anything right?


----------



## Verso

^^ You still have to pay the Karavanke Tunnel. 

If you go over Salzburg, it's 25 km more, but 16.8 € cheaper.


----------



## Timon91

Yeah, but the car owner already has this $tupid vignette, so it's better to go through Slovenia


----------



## Radish2

Verso said:


> Buses definitely don't drive just 80 km/h here, but 100.


Ofcourse they don´t, it would take very long with those speeds and todays buses have very powerful engines which allow way faster speeds. But why does the table say buses and trucks 80, so when the police would stop a bus or track above 80 km/h the driver would be fined?


----------



## Mateusz

No, they would be given a lollipop


----------



## Verso

I think those are old speed limits.


----------



## keber

Radish2 said:


> Ofcourse they don´t, it would take very long with those speeds and todays buses have very powerful engines which allow way faster speeds. But why does the table say buses and trucks 80, so when the police would stop a bus or track above 80 km/h the driver would be fined?


Above table is from forum about cars etc. and it is not official. Also you can notice a star beside 80. That star is explained elsewhere.


----------



## Radish2

keber said:


> Above table is from forum about cars etc. and it is not official. Also you can notice a star beside 80. That star is explained elsewhere.


Ok, thanks


----------



## Verso

"Star" is called "asterisk" in grammar (not Asterix :lol.


----------



## bojc

Verso said:


> "Star" is called "asterisk" in grammar (not Asterix :lol.


Asterisk means a "little star" in Ancient Greek anyway :lol:.


----------



## mapman:cz

Seems that short term vignettes will be announced? Any information on that, guys? When? Validity ? Price?


----------



## Verso

There's no news about that, where did you see it?


----------



## mapman:cz

Verso said:


> There's no news about that, where did you see it?


I came across these two articles but I am not sure what are the results exactly: 

http://www.dnevnik.si/novice/eu/1042234985 followed by this one: http://www.dnevnik.si/poslovni_dnevnik/1042235133


----------



## Verso

^^ Yeah, but nothing is for sure yet. The new government promissed to introduce cheaper vignettes already when it was formed, but there was too little time then, so... as soon as possible. Looks like we'll pay for the loss with expensive fuel.


----------



## mapman:cz

Verso said:


> ^^ Yeah, but nothing is for sure yet. The new government promissed to introduce cheaper vignettes already when it was formed, but there was too little time then, so... as soon as possible. Looks like we'll pay for the loss with expensive fuel.


OK thanks  I'm sure you'll let us know as soon as the decision is made. For people here in CZ and SK is this a very important topic  Sites about vacations on Adriatic sea are full of plans how to avoid vignette-sections near Maribor.


----------



## bewu1

mapman:cz said:


> OK thanks  I'm sure you'll let us know as soon as the decision is made. For people here in CZ and SK is this a very important topic  Sites about vacations on Adriatic sea are full of plans how to avoid vignette-sections near Maribor.


In Poland too. It is a thief if you have to pay 35 Euro for appr. 100 km (if you drive from Austria to Croatia).


----------



## panda80

in fact you have to pay 35euro just for 20km(motorway section between border and maribor).seems to me national road 437 will get really congested this summer:bash:


----------



## Verso

We had vignettes already previous summer (since 1st July).


----------



## Radish2

panda80 said:


> in fact you have to pay 35euro just for 20km(motorway section between border and maribor).seems to me national road 437 will get really congested this summer:bash:


Yes, yes, it´s crazy, they should finally be forced to reduce prices from the EU.


----------



## Treasure

When will the motorway from Maribor to the Croatian border be completed? cheers


----------



## Mateusz

Half of it this year


----------



## paF4uko

If spending 35€ is a problem for your holidays budget, then go through Hungary...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't think the € 35 is a problem to many, but the problem is it's nowhere in line with the fact that you need it for a short drive. The tolls are disproportionally high for travellers driving only like 90 minutes through the country. Especially on the N-S axis.


----------



## Radish2

dookie said:


> I don't....but i don't make posts like u do in our thread in croatian thread...


What problem do you have, do you have a problem when he jokes a bit here and there, it seems you have, the threads need a bit offtopic and jokeposts, and it surely doesn´t need people who attack others when they say some joke or irony.


----------



## x-type

actually Radi, i was not joking. and dookie - i was commenting Mateusz's post. it was totaly ontopic. ask yourself why it hurts you so much. and you are allways welcome to our thread commenting motorways and their construction


----------



## Mateusz

Well, why not ? Is there a gap unable to construct ?


----------



## Radish2

x-type said:


> actually Radi, i was not joking. and dookie - i was commenting Mateusz's post. it was totaly ontopic. ask yourself why it hurts you so much. and you are allways welcome to our thread commenting motorways and their construction


so you seriously think it will never be finished?


----------



## x-type

Radish2 said:


> so you seriously think it will never be finished?


this one to Gruškovje will be finnished once in far future, probably in some 6 years. other 2 will be finnished in so far future that i cannot predict it at all. maybe in some 15 years.


----------



## Verso

6 years is far future? To me far future is 50 years. :lol:


----------



## pijanec

Motorway to Gruškovje will be finished in 2012. But this motorway is not needed urgently as majority of time existing road is empty and you can drive with high speeds.


----------



## x-type

pijanec said:


> Motorway to Gruškovje will be finished in 2012. But this motorway is not needed urgently as majority of time existing road is empty and you can drive with high speeds.


you can drive with high speeds between Ptuj and Maribor as well


----------



## pijanec

^^ Good luck! Too many 50 km/h speed limits and too much police control on Maribor-Ptuj. Road Ptuj-Gruškovje is mostly police free, no 50 km/h limits and road was designed as half-motorway.


----------



## Krpan

x-type said:


> do you have an answer when motorways to Gruškovje will be finnished?


never


----------



## snupix

pijanec said:


> Motorway to Gruškovje will be finished in 2012. But this motorway is not needed urgently as majority of time existing road is empty and you can drive with high speeds.


The limit there is mostly 60 km/h (which is very irritating considering the possibilities) and I don't want to be caught speeding there, especially since I'm Croatian.


----------



## Verso

The speed limit between Ptuj and Gruškovje is mostly 90 km/h. It's 60 only through those few intersections.


----------



## pijanec

snupix said:


> The limit there is mostly 60 km/h (which is very irritating considering the possibilities) and I don't want to be caught speeding there, especially since I'm Croatian.


Every slovenian limit is valid only for the distance from the sign to the intersection. After intersection speed limit is back to 90 km/h (or 50 km/h if you are inside village which isn't a case on Ptuj-Gruškovje). On Ptuj-Gruškovje half of speed limits of 60 km/h is so valid only for 10 meters or so, and other halfs for around 100 meters.

Also if a sign for a village doesn't have a black border around it, speed limit 90 km/h. Majority of foreigners don't know that.









Speed limit 90 km/h, like Slovenja vas on Ptuj-Maribor.









Speed limit 50 km/h.


----------



## LoKeY

There you go... 
We wouldn't want any Croatians to be caught in Slovenia for driving too slow now, would we?


----------



## Radish2

so Verso, are there some new prices in plan allready or still 35 € for not finished motorways?


----------



## Verso

Radish2 said:


> so Verso, are there some new prices in plan allready or still 35 € for not finished motorways?


You don't need a vignette for not finished motorways.


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> You don't need a vignette for not finished motorways.


how not? all existing motorways in Slovenia are currently unfinnished.


----------



## Timon91

Maybe he meant unfinished stretches? You probably don't need a vignette for a section that is u/c - you will get fined anyway if you get caught :lol:


----------



## Radish2

x-type said:


> how not? all existing motorways in Slovenia are currently unfinnished.


Exactly, Verso, tell me finally when Slovenia will introduce lower prices, EU complained 6 months ago and new prices still aren´t introduced.


----------



## Verso

Timon91 said:


> Maybe he meant unfinished stretches?


:yes:



Radish2 said:


> Exactly, Verso, tell me finally when Slovenia will introduce lower prices, EU complained 6 months ago and new prices still aren´t introduced.


How the heck am I supposed to know that? Well, if there will be a cheaper vignette, let's say weekly vignette, that means that the half-yearly and yearly vignettes would have to become more expensive. The government says it would be unfair to sell the-same-year vignette (the 2009 vignette) in April more expensive than in January (which I don't exactly agree with). So in the worst-case scenario (though it could become even worse) you'd have to wait until 1st December 2009. But then again, they (probably) don't sell yearly vignettes after July, so maybe we could see cheaper vignettes on 1st August 2009? :dunno:


----------



## x-type

all you have to do is corridor vignette for Maribor - Šentilj and eventually for Koper - Škofije


----------



## Radish2

x-type said:


> all you have to do is corridor vignette for Maribor - Šentilj and eventually for Koper - Škofije


No, the A2 route Jesenice - Croatian border route msut also be cheaper then now.


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> all you have to do is corridor vignette for Maribor - Šentilj and eventually for Koper - Škofije


Isn't just driving on those 20 km of old road easier? Remember, stopping, waiting in a queue, buying the vignette (and paying it!), going back to the car, sticking the vignette, and last, but not least, peeling it off! I'd never buy a vignette to bypass Bregenz.


----------



## Ban.BL

Well you made it very hard to avoid it you really have to be highway freak to know how to do it.


----------



## Verso

Ok, but x-type is familiar with the route.


----------



## pijanec

It is easy to avoid. Also DARS said they won't stop people in Pesnica roundabout and inspector already told them to remove their vignette signs. But they don't listen to him as they want to scare foreigners.

For sure they won't introduce corridor vignettes as on Gruškovje-Šentilj they will open additional 40 kms of motorway before summer.


----------



## Radish2

I want a pic of the illuminated direction signs in Ljubliana at night, I also want some photos of the Porsche, VW and so on adds on the blocks of Ljubliana.


----------



## Radish2

RS.ban said:


> ^^well than i was better informed than you. Coz 3 days ago i have read an article about Slovenian vignettes, introducing new short and long period vignettes and all that in light of new government. And author of that txt expected that new government would not change this policy at least for now. So i am good enough informed.


That was a good one.


----------



## enschede-er

Verso a question , has this road(red painted) planning for constructions for a motorway?:


----------



## x-type

i will just keep my mouth shut


----------



## Radish2

x-type said:


> i will just keep my mouth shut


X-type, don´t diss so much, because Slovenia builds it´s stuff, it takes time, but then it is build and is high quality, in Bulgaria motorways aren´t build at all.


----------



## Verso

That road will never be a motorway, b/c it doesn't need to be. It's planned to be reconstructed though, b/c it goes through many many villages. It's one of the most beautiful Slovenian roads.


----------



## enschede-er

o , i tought it will make a good connection between ljubljana and croatia. 

but Slovenia has already good roads and motorways and good connections!


----------



## Verso

^ Especially to Croatia. :lol: It would be crazy to build a motorway there, it's just villages and two small towns (Kočevje, Ribnica) and another small town in Croatia (Delnice). Ljubljana and Rijeka are/will be connected via Postojna, whereas Ljubljana and Split are connected either via Zagreb (motorway), or Metlika or Žužemberk/Črnomelj (both ordinary roads). Ljubljana doesn't need a motorway to Ribnica, Kočevje or Delnice, just the first few kms maybe (where an expressway would suffice). The road is now in summers a good alternative to the route over Postojna though, if you're going from Ljubljana to Kvarner (area south of Rijeka with islands), but only until the Postojna-Rijeka motorway is built (that will take some time though ).


----------



## Steffi81

May somebody know the exact date of opening of Maribor´s eastern bypass?


----------



## Verso

In a few months..


----------



## Verso

New DARS website; looks better.


----------



## keber

And a bunch of (fairly) new pictures


----------



## Verso

New map:










Chris, could you please edit the first post and put this map instead of the previous one? Also, could you please slightly change the sentence above the map ("The Slovenian road network consists of 489 km (304 mi) of motorways/freeways, 50 km (31 mi) of 4-lane expressways"), so that you put "and" instead of the comma before "50 km", and a colon after "expressways"?  Thanks!

PS: is the legend readable?


----------



## RipleyLV

Verso said:


> PS: is the legend readable?


What legend?  

Hey Verso, when will open H4?


----------



## Verso

RipleyLV said:


> What legend?


So it isn't? :lol:



RipleyLV said:


> Hey Verso, when will open H4?


Around half of this year. However, A2 Ljubljana - Zagreb won't be finished this year.


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> A2 Ljubljana - Zagreb won't be finished this year.


do you think that somebody was so naive and foolish and thought it would be finished?!


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> do you think that somebody was so naive and foolish and thought it would be finished?!


[x-type]:soapbox::gunz::mad2::bash::rant::bleep:>evil:[/x-type]

:lol:


----------



## Timon91

Will this rivalry ever stop?


----------



## Verso

^ He can't understand that the motorway by Trebnje simply can't be built so fast. Another thing is he thinks we're blocking construction of the motorway b/c it leads to Croatia, but forgets that it also links Ljubljana with Novo mesto, the center of SE Slovenia, with the important Renault factory. And that the motorway between NM and Croatia is already built, so I don't see how anyone's blocking it. But enough of this.

Btw, has anyone noticed the ridiculous amount of road numbers on the map?


----------



## x-type

i don't think it, it's the fact that you are blocking it. difficult terrain is not excuse because you are building those poor 100 km for longer time period than one poor and undeveloped Croatia spent to build 380 km of motorway in terrain where those Slovenian hills look like heap of sand. i would accept that excuse, but it is simply unlogical.


----------



## Radish2

Really funny.


----------



## Verso

I'm talking about the missing section by Trebnje. In the state it is today, it cannot be finished until the end of the year. The reason why this section has only begun to be built is that residents of Trebnje couldn't agree on where the motorway would run. The argument of blocking it is ridiculous, as it's the connection between LJ and NM, not to mention the fact the motorway between NM and Croatia is already built.


----------



## x-type

aha :drool:


----------



## Radish2

But Verso, I really find it slow, the motorway Croatian border - Ljubliana wont be finished entirely even this year and the motorway Ljubliana Jesenice isn´t complete yet, too, eh? Really slow.


----------



## Verso

Radish2 said:


> But Verso, I really find it slow, the motorway Croatian border - Ljubliana wont be finished entirely even this year and the motorway Ljubliana Jesenice isn´t complete yet, too, eh? Really slow.


Looking overall, it _is_ slow, but you have to know there are many important road corridors in small Slovenia, and while the H1 isn't the best road ever, it's way better than other old main roads in Slovenia, so motorways in other directions were priority.


----------



## x-type

and then you say that you're not blocking Croatia. k'mon, the most important route to connect southeastern Europe with western is not marked as one of routes with top priority. i can't believe it. btw, this so-called H1 is crap over craps. the only crappier main road is G9 which, mirracelously, presents an turbo-important road for Croatia.


----------



## Verso

H1 is crap over craps? As for the G9 (Ptuj - Croatia), I drove there in November, and it was perfectly fine for a 2-lane road. And how is A2 not a top priority, when all of it is either built or U/C?


----------



## Radish2

It looks impressive on that pic.


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> H1 is crap over craps? As for the G9 (Ptuj - Croatia), I drove there in November, and it was perfectly fine for a 2-lane road. And how is A2 not a top priority, when all of it is either built or U/C?


well, yes, there are crappy parts.
and G9 - i drove it 2 weeks ago. those large wheel tracks must be result of poor maintenance because you claim there is no heavy traffic.


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> well, yes, there are crappy parts.


What are you actually showing us? I can't see much of the road here.



x-type said:


> and G9 - i drove it 2 weeks ago. those large wheel tracks must be result of poor maintenance because you claim there is no heavy traffic.


I don't remember them, but I drive there very rarely.


----------



## keber

x-type said:


> and then you say that you're not blocking Croatia.


So you think, we're holding back construction of A2 only because we like to anger Croats? :lol:

Remember, case around Trebnje is similar to your A1 over Gacka river. If you would have such problems with NIMBY's in Croatia, Your A1 still wouldn't reach even Zadar


----------



## Radish2

I must say I find it very impressive when I´ve seen Slovenia at night, all parts under construction are illuminated and there are flash lights which indicate that construction of the road is infront of you, it´s jsut too european. I am looking forword to go through Slovenia soon and enjoy the very even asphalt and impressive looking motorways.


----------



## x-type

keber said:


> So you think, we're holding back construction of A2 only because we like to anger Croats? :lol:
> 
> Remember, case around Trebnje is similar to your A1 over Gacka river. If you would have such problems with NIMBY's in Croatia, Your A1 still wouldn't reach even Zadar


no, but you give priorities to other, less important projects, force them and make them important suddenly. 

those "if" sentences - i wouldn't comment them. da je baba muško, zvala bi se duško...


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> no, but you give priorities to other, less important projects, force them and make them important suddenly.


Such as?



x-type said:


> those "if" sentences - i wouldn't comment them. da je baba muško, zvala bi se duško...


Well, it's not the Republic of Slovenia's fault that NIMBYs are much stronger than in Croatia. NIMBYs don't even call it "fault", but "rightful doings".


----------



## keber

^^ Not funny.


----------



## Verso

Are you superstitious? :lol:


----------



## pijanec

Verso said:


> Yeah, but he didn't mean what you think (poluautocesta). The Croatian expression "poluautocesta" (half-motorway) is a legal term in Croatia, which we don't have in Slovenia, b/c we say "hitra cesta" (expressway). He only wanted to say that the current road would be half of the future motorway, not that it's an expressway (also speed limit isn't 100 km/h, but 90, except through intersections).


That's what I had in mind. Design speed for Hajdina-Gruškovje road was 120 km/h.

But don't forget: in Yugoslavia road Hajdina-Gruškovja was called "autoput" and even had minimum speed limit signs. Also all plans for widening it into full motorway were already prepared.


----------



## pijanec

x-type said:


> and G9 - i drove it 2 weeks ago. those large wheel tracks must be result of poor maintenance because you claim there is no heavy traffic.


This is a lie. G9 is a great road, most of it being repaved in last 2 years. Road was also damage free before they started building A4. Now those heavy trucks which drive material to construction sites use that road and it is really damaged in it's northern parts but there is no sense to fix this short sections before we open A4.


----------



## Verso

Looks like even DARS itself has a sense of humor. :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What's the completion date of the bypass of Maribor? Slovenian wikipedia reads June 15th 2009.


----------



## Verso

^^ It's probably correct.


----------



## keber

From one week ago:


Motorway Fan said:


> Mariborska Avtocestna Obvoznica
> 
> Slike z dne 8.3.2009
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uvoz Maribor - Center (Slikano v smeri Ljubljane, uvoz v smeri Avstrije)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uvoz Maribor - Center (V smeri Ljubljane)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most čez Dravo (V smeri Ljubljane)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pokriti vkop Malečnik (V smeri Avstrije)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pokriti vkop Malečnik (V smeri Ljubljane)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nadaljevanje avtoceste z predorom Vodole v ozadju.
> (Slikano v smeri Avstrije)


If works continue at steady pace, then opening should happen before start of tourist season. 

Also works on A4 towards Ptuj/Zagreb are progressing well and motorway is already getting first asphalt layer:








Opening of A4 until Ptuj is officially still planned until end of 2009, but July opening is quite possible, if no significant problems arise.


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> Looks like even DARS itself has a sense of humor. :lol:


i wouldn't be surprised if they meant seriously.


----------



## Verso

miran2005 said:


>


:lol:


----------



## x-type

:lol: dream on


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The sign "via Budapest" is missing


----------



## Verso

I'm still figuring out what's wrong with the sign (not that nothing's wrong ). Probably "5" was added, but then "60" would be kind of far away from the right edge. And I doubt it used to be "60,5". :lol: This is somewhere in/near Dravograd.


----------



## Timon91

Are you feeling claustrophobic in Slovenia?


----------



## Verso

It actually used to be 60,5 km on the sign. :lol::lol:


----------



## x-type

those 0,5 measures are allways weird to me because it is totaly unneccessary information


----------



## PLH

Are you sure? 










This village's name is slang for beer, BTW


----------



## x-type

hehe, well if they would have put 1 km, it wouldn't make much difference


----------



## PLH

It would be twice the distance then


----------



## Verso

0,5 is ok, but 60,5 is stupid.


----------



## PLH

Still better than this:


----------



## Verso

Yeah, this sucks. :lol:


----------



## x-type

i wonder if it is distance to centre of that place or to th beginning?!


----------



## PLH

It's always to the centre, so to the town hall or post office.


----------



## Ban.BL

in Andorra every meter counts small country


----------



## Verso

PLH said:


> It's always to the centre, so to the town hall or post office.


Usually, but if there's just 1 km to the beginning of a city and further 10 km to the center, it usually says just 1 km. And those 7.5 km on that sign must be to the beginning of Ravne na Koroškem, there's additional kilometer to the center.


----------



## BND

In Budapest this is the 0 km, every distance is measured from here on km posts or city distance signs:


----------



## banjabuja

where is that in budapest?
By the funicular to Buda Castle?


----------



## Timon91

In the Netherlands we usually don't sign towns at less then a kilometer. In such a case it just says "Abcoude - ", for example.


----------



## BND

banjabuja said:


> where is that in budapest?
> By the funicular to Buda Castle?


Exactly! kay:


----------



## Verso

Unfortunately we don't have that here, just for rivers.


----------



## Fuzzy Llama

In Warsaw we have this:
http://wikimapia.org/1801916/pl/Kamie%C5%84-milowy


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't like distances to the city center. It's ridiculous when you're passing a sign "wilkommen in Berlin-Treptow" and then see a sign "Berlin 28km".


----------



## Verso

^ Yeah, that's ridiculous, but if you're some 200 km away, I'd rather see to the center (not that it would be much different).

Btw, in 2-3 weeks it will be known what kind of vignettes/toll system we'll have in the near future.


----------



## Timon91

Just before exit Abcoude there is a sign (on the A2) with "Amsterdam 12". In fact, the city limits of Amsterdam are only 30 meters from the city limits of Abcoude. At the point where that sign is it is still about 2 km. So they must be talking about the end of the A2 on that sign, b/c the city center of Amsterdam is still a little further.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nah some signs in NL are outdated, for instance the cycle path near Zwolle-South says "Zwolle 7km" while the city limits are like 200 m away. But the sign might be pre-1980's, when Zwolle-South didn't exist and you had to travel a while until you've reached the city back then.


----------



## Verso

*The government proposes weekly vignette for 15 € and yearly vignette for 95 €. They shall be introduced on 1st July this year.*

http://24ur.com/novice/slovenija/15-evrov-za-sedemdnevno-vinjeto.html
http://www.rtvslo.si/modload.php?&c_mod=rnews&op=sections&func=read&c_menu=1&c_id=196031
http://www.delo.si/clanek/78185
http://www.dnevnik.si/novice/slovenija/1042254921
http://www.vecer.com/clanek2009032605419718


----------



## PLH

It's still twice the price of Austrian 10 day vignette :no:


----------



## x-type

this will be the most expensive weekly vignette in the universe


----------



## Verso

Never happy.


----------



## Ban.BL

"rip the tourists off!!!"
New-old DARS slogan


----------



## Timon91

It's only €5 cheaper for Western-European tourists that want to visit Croatia for more than a week.


----------



## H123Laci

I'll go to villach this summer, but I will cross Slovenia on main roads...

15euro would be too much for 30km motorway... :lol:


----------



## Verso

^^ 30 km of motorway between Budapest and Villach through Slovenia? :sly:



Ban.BL said:


> "rip the tourists off!!!"
> New-old DARS slogan


The transport minister said 'we want to be a tourist-friendly country'.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Verso said:


> *The government proposes weekly vignette for 15 € and yearly vignette for 95 €. They shall be introduced on 1st July this year.*
> 
> http://24ur.com/novice/slovenija/15-evrov-za-sedemdnevno-vinjeto.html
> http://www.rtvslo.si/modload.php?&c_mod=rnews&op=sections&func=read&c_menu=1&c_id=196031
> http://www.delo.si/clanek/78185
> http://www.dnevnik.si/novice/slovenija/1042254921
> http://www.vecer.com/clanek2009032605419718


DANG excellent!

However, they know most people will go to Croatia for like 2 - 3 weeks, and then return, and have to buy 2 € 15 vignettes, so on the double, it's only € 5 cheaper than the old situation... However, it's something.


----------



## Radish2

Verso said:


> The transport minister said 'we want to be a tourist-friendly country'.




If only the prices were a bit lower, people would really appreciate some of the best feeling roads in europe.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think the most fair price would be between € 7 and € 10, considering almost everyone who buys such a weekly-vignette would be in transit to other countries than Slovenia.


----------



## H123Laci

Verso said:


> ^^ 30 km of motorway between Budapest and Villach through Slovenia? :sly:


yeah.
between lendava und murska sobota...


----------



## Verso

^ How about driving whole A5 to Maribor and A1 northbound to Austrian border?


----------



## Palance

1st of July... Poor me, I will be in Slovenia in May


----------



## Verso

I was thinking about new vignettes, and I'm not sure how it will be between 1st July and 1st December this year. Will any yearly vignette be sold at all, or only weekly ones? It's a problem, because half-yearly vignettes won't exist any more. Be sure to buy a half-yearly (or yearly) vignette before 1st July, if you intend to drive a lot on Slovenian motorways or expressways until 1st December, or else you can end up driving on ordinary roads or buying many weekly vignettes.


----------



## Radish2

OMG, now it will be even more expensive then before. Who can top that, Verso, you must admit that the pricepolitic of the vigniettes is shit.


----------



## Ban.BL

for him it is good


----------



## Total

H123Laci said:


> I'll go to villach this summer, but I will cross Slovenia on main roads...
> 
> 15euro would be too much for 30km motorway... :lol:


Good luck with that... It is actually quite complicated to avoid roads that req. vignette AFAIK.

While on it, is there a map of roads affected by vignette? Since as i got it, not only motorways require it...


----------



## Timon91

AFAIK the last time someone asked (me ) it was just all the A-roads and all the H-roads that required a vignette.


----------



## Verso

As well as other 4-lane expressways (G104, G111, but only the expressway parts). 2-lane expressways/motorroads don't require it, although in practice that means just one road (G101 south of Tržič), for H1 you need it, because it has only one interchange left (Trebnje) from which you sooner or later end on A2 motorway, whether you go in direction Ljubljana or Zagreb. The same goes for (former) H1 between Kranj and Jesenice (2.4 km), which actually is now officially "A2 motorway with roadworks" anyway.


----------



## Radish2

Seriously, I find it incredible that Slovenia is removing half year vigniettes, excuse me but how can a country rap peoples money only for a few km of motorway. Even if every year they would put new asphalt on them it woulnd´t satisfy the price. Verso, you as a patriot ofcourse wont say anything against it,


----------



## x-type

Radish2 said:


> Seriously, I find it incredible that Slovenia is removing half year vigniettes, excuse me but how can a country rap peoples money only for a few km of motorway.


well Radi, believe it - it's Slovenia. that's enough to say.


----------



## Verso

Use old roads. If it's only a few kms, you won't lose much time.


----------



## H123Laci

Total said:


> Good luck with that... It is actually quite complicated to avoid roads that req. vignette AFAIK.


with a GPS? 
its a piece of cake...


----------



## RipleyLV

It's done!  Nice pics, another great motorway soon to be opened


----------



## Ban.BL

I wonder is it possible to plant something here?
http://hvuw0w.blu.livefilestore.com...vxM8OSJgtevSvzabrR3yElJus4u673wlnSZuC/m12.jpg


----------



## keber

^^ Yes, that's why this wall is built so.


----------



## Verso

If anyone's interested, we've got a special thread for the 9-km Maribor bypass. :hahaha: That's on top of an already-existing thread about the 20-km A4. :lol: So we have 3 local threads on the few motorways we have U/C. :lol:


----------



## H123Laci

^^ we would build tunnel here... :lol:



arhi said:


>


----------



## keber

We would probably too (it was planned in first proposals), but A1-A5 interchange starts about in the middle of cutting.


----------



## H123Laci

damn Verso, that photo flooding was a really stupid idea... :bash: :lol:


----------



## H123Laci

keber said:


> We would probably too (it was planned in first proposals), but A1-A5 interchange starts about in the middle of cutting.


I like geometry so I like cuttings... they are much more interesting than tunnels... :cheers:


----------



## Verso

H123Laci said:


> damn Verso, that photo flooding was a really stupid idea... :bash: :lol:


You must keep your computer in shape.  I like cuttings too, btw.


----------



## Ban.BL

keber said:


> ^^ Yes, that's why this wall is built so.


are there any photos with example how does it look like with vegetation?


----------



## Qwert

Verso said:


> You must keep your computer in shape.  I like cuttings too, btw.


You should create a thread about cuttings.


----------



## Verso

Ban.BL said:


> are there any photos with example how does it look like with vegetation?


Yes:


arhi said:


>


:lol:



Qwert said:


> You should create a thread about cuttings.


Go to the Slovenian forum and recommend it. :lol: I forgot to say we also have a special thread for the northern Maribor bypass (which will probably never be built). :lol:


----------



## gramercy

wow, nice pix guys


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*The radio discussions have been moved to the roadside rest area.*


----------



## E.L. SLOVENIA

Today it was cloudy, so the pics are better:





And Rebernice from the ground: 



balko said:


>


----------



## RipleyLV

E.L. SLOVENIA said:


> Today it was cloudy, so the pics are better:
> 
> http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/879/vau062.jpg
> 
> http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/945/vau064.jpg


Now for a view from A1 on Nanos mountain. 


























(pictures by me)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What's the opening date for the Maribor - Macelj (HR) motorway?


----------



## Ban.BL

I don´t think it will be before 2015, let someone correct me if i am wrong.


----------



## Zanovijetalo

2048, either June or July.


----------



## x-type

Zanovijetalo said:


> 2048, either June or July.


i think that too. but they could extend it to 2049, just as A2


----------



## Timon91

Sounds like the opening date of the Dutch A4 MD


----------



## pijanec

ChrisZwolle said:


> What's the opening date for the Maribor - Macelj (HR) motorway?


Maribor-Ptuj in 2 months. 

From Ptuj-Macelj sometimes in the future as this part does not have a lot of traffic and design speed of the existing road is already 120 km/h and it doesn't go through any village.


----------



## Ban.BL

120km/h since when?


----------



## pijanec

Speed limit is 90 km/h. I was talking about design speed which is 120 km/h. It was built as half-motorway. Road will also be used as future half of the motorway when Slovenia will decide to finish A4.


----------



## Ban.BL

half motorway?! it is awful road for half motorway


----------



## Verso

It's straight enough to be part of a motorway in the future.


----------



## Ban.BL

it is narrow.


----------



## Verso

It can be widened, can't it?


----------



## pijanec

It is not really narrow. It is 3,25 meters per lane. I had two experiences going 3 cars parallel on that road because some people didn't finish overtaking on time.


----------



## Ban.BL

Verso said:


> It can be widened, can't it?


It can be full profile motorway, but it isn´t it is normal highway and no some super motorway so there is need for motorway and not like someone here wanted to represent it isn´t.


----------



## Verso

It's quite ok IMO.


----------



## x-type

it's absolute crap. it just an ordinary 2 way road with extreme danger from tractors and other agricultural vehicles accessing from sides. what half-motorway are you babbling?!


----------



## Verso

Non-motor vehicles aren't even allowed on the road, AFAIK they aren't even allowed to cross it any more. And yes, it's gonna be half of the future motorway, we've already said that, so I guess it's straight enough. Anyone can look in GE how (un)straight it is. The pavement is fine too.


----------



## x-type

ok, so let's see, quote, an expressway which has 120 km/h standards and is enough to carry traffic on second most important route from Slovenia to Croatia, end quote. 

it looks really good, right? you can overpass lorries, asphalt is good. oh no, wait, there is 60 km/h limit. who will you opverpass? bicycle?









ok, there cannot be 60 km/h limit all the way. so here you have a chance to overpass slow vehicles here. of course, if you have money for new suspension after crossing middle of thge road.









not to see only bad things, here is one of the best parts. you are not destroying anything on your car, you can do 90 km/h, you cannot overpass, so you have no choice. does it look like important road's asphalt? not really.









this intersection is good and generous. it allows even 70 km/h. one of the rare. 









90 km/h, allowed overpassing (although impossible because of oncoming traffic, which is extremely low according to Slovenes), what a luxury!









finally a chance to overpass this austrian Golf. no oncoming traffic, allowed overpassing, ok condition of the road, but no, 60 km/h again stops me to do it.









somehow i maneged to do it. i definitely wouldn't do it here. guess why.









shiny and fantastic. enough for people who wnats to go to Croatia. they don't need more.









what a lovely pedestrian crossing on so-called expressway. at least pedestrians cannot brake a leg on potholes seen previously.









random one









again random one. large part of that road is under 60 km/h. just get used to it while you're there.









after this one man really cannot wait first gas station to buy damned vignette for lots of € to forget this torture. if the main road looks like this, how are local roads?!









a little bit of wheel tracks. 









and one more nicely lifted bridge with waves.









again one with no complains. except 60 km/h.









and a dirty one for the end. this part will be bypassed with motorway next year (or even this?). so if you won't want to buy a vignette, this will wait you. and ongoing days - you still have no alternative in expensive motorway - you must use this.









:drool:


----------



## Ban.BL

thnx


----------



## Palance

x-type said:


> again one with no complains. except 60 km/h.


There is enough to complain here: The speedsign is put right before the roadsign, so it is difficult to read it.


----------



## Radish2

Really funny with you two. But X-type, the exorbitant prices for Croatian vigniette are not much better. If you had one week vigniette 10 €, then you would have the right to complain, but 20 € for one time passing is way too much.


----------



## PLH

Thank God x-type you don't pop into Poland :lol: (OK, but for the last pic, it's indeed horrible)


----------



## Timon91

What would Verso have to say about this?


----------



## PLH

Sorry Croats?


----------



## Verso

snupix said:


> I know they especially 'like' Croatian plates


How do you know that anyway? If you're too fast, you'll be fined, as simple as that. I don't know how someone driving too fast can complain about being fined. And as I've already said, Croatians drive quite fast. :lol:


----------



## snupix

^^ That's from the experiences I've heard... True or not, it makes me think before driving 90 through that 60km/h intersection shown on the previous pics...


----------



## pijanec

If speed limit is valid for like 20 or 100 meters, I am sure you can see ahead if there is police. 

But I don't remember any Croatian car ever being stopped on G9. Speed limits checks are rare, there is usually just border patrol checking illegal activities.


----------



## Ban.BL

There are, i have seen those "hunters" with police cars.


----------



## x-type

pijanec said:


> But I don't remember any Croatian car ever being stopped on G9. Speed limits checks are rare, there is usually just border patrol checking illegal activities.


i saw it at saturday.


----------



## zezi

Very interesting


keber said:


> Še članek iz današnjega Dela:
> 
> Construction of motorways
> For thirteen section to Gruškovje yet the no plan
> In mid-July a section Slivnica-Draženci will be open and congestion at the border continues to increase - the municipality of Videm Podlehnik and aspire to begin to build the road
> 
> Podlehnik - Mayor of Videm and Podlehnik, Frederick Bračič and Marko Maučič, try to accelerate the formation of the national plan for the building highway section of the Ptuj Dražencev to border crossing Gruškovje. Yesterday, in Podlehnik invited all parties involved and they presented a life unbearable at the present road, and also announced more protests if the government mills and the administration also continues to slow.
> 
> National spatial plan to see the retail sector by the end of this year, but that no one can promise. Therefore, it remains unclear when these will be 13 kilometers of motorway could begin to build. Municipality Podlehnik in the first outline plans require that before the construction of the motorway, built alongside the regional road, as on its local road through the center of the settlement will not allow all transit traffic, and construction machinery. For additional road to be taken, in particular, resolution of additional program and provide some money, which would again be extended wait for the start of the work.
> 
> However, people believe that about this section, Slovenian politics plays with neighboring Croatia. There is no logic on 15th July this year will be opened a new section of highway Slivnice in Maribor to Dražencev, and from there will continue unknown long remained current for three decades old and already destroyed road. As the approach to the motorway in the two municipalities in the state of traffic during the tourist season become even more unbearable than ever, so Podlehniku announced yesterday in a bar or a protest.
> "If on this road happens only a minor car accident in the peak tourist season, there would be a congestion to Graz or Vienna," says Mayor Podlehnik. The problems of life on the road the next day tried to inform the President, the Prime Minister and the guardian of human rights. That policy, as in the civil initiative created Podlehniku stress that with its warnings and announced a feature does not hinder the construction and not opposed, but want to step up and as soon as possible to ensure normal life.
> Franc Milošič


Google did translation, i am sorry if it not very nice


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Please translate it to English, or I'll delete it.


----------



## Verso

Videm -> Udine :lol: And traffic jam to Vienna. :lol:


----------



## Total

pijanec said:


> I agree this 60 signs are lame. There is even one on crossroad which no one ever use it. :bash:
> 
> But you should use G9 daily and you would see that mainly Croatians are driving 60 km/h all the way and causing traffic disturbances. You could also check few pages back where there were remarks from your people how speed limit is 60 all the way. So I assumed that they don't know there is exact the same rule in Croatia.


Ofcourse we do! Braking is wasting of fuel  So why accelerate when i will soon (but i dont know exactly where) have to brake 

Dont get me wrong, I guess it all comes down to that when i drive at home i rarely obey speed limit because i know road well and i know how fast i can drive safely and on top of that i know where police likes to check up on my speed. But in foreign country i try to obey speed limits as much as i can because i have to trust the signs for direction and for safety... The "try" part is that i also admit speeding over on some parts because i noticed i am being too slow for rest of the trafic... And in the current state of things, i definitely wouldnt like to be stopped by police. Maybe i wouldnt have problems and meet nice policeman that is not making fuss over what is my license plate but you never know, same i would reccomend for Slovenians coming this year on vacation...

Cheers!

P.S. To be sort of on topic, any grand openings lately, or at least small ones? I checked official pages http://www.dars.si and status seemed pretty much the same. And some parts are due to be opened in June 2009. is that true?


----------



## Verso

^^ Soon to be opened Maribor bypass (A1), A4 Maribor - Ptuj and the last 10 km of H4.


----------



## pijanec

x-type said:


> i saw it at saturday.


And where could they manage to do speed checks? Majority of speed limits are valid for less than 100 meters, some even for only 10 meters. But there is always parked police car somewhere beside the road to calm down the traffic and this car will soon be accompanied by fake human-police figure. :nuts::nuts:


----------



## pijanec

Total said:


> Ofcourse we do! Braking is wasting of fuel  So why accelerate when i will soon (but i dont know exactly where) have to brake
> 
> Dont get me wrong, I guess it all comes down to that when i drive at home i rarely obey speed limit because i know road well and i know how fast i can drive safely and on top of that i know where police likes to check up on my speed. But in foreign country i try to obey speed limits as much as i can because i have to trust the signs for direction and for safety... The "try" part is that i also admit speeding over on some parts because i noticed i am being too slow for rest of the trafic... And in the current state of things, i definitely wouldnt like to be stopped by police. Maybe i wouldnt have problems and meet nice policeman that is not making fuss over what is my license plate but you never know, same i would reccomend for Slovenians coming this year on vacation...


Remember that driving 60 km/h where speed limit is 90 km/h and there are any cars behind you carry the same fine as driving 90 km/h where there is 60 km/h speed limit. Both is 60 euros.

So, if you are driving 60 km/h all the way just to be safe from the police because of your license plate (which is nonsense anyway) they can still fine you for not obeying traffic laws.


----------



## Majestic

pijanec said:


> Remember that driving 60 km/h where speed limit is 90 km/h and there are any cars behind you carry the same fine as driving 90 km/h where there is 60 km/h speed limit. Both is 60 euros.
> 
> So, if you are driving 60 km/h all the way just to be safe from the police because of your license plate (which is nonsense anyway) they can still fine you for not obeying traffic laws.


Are you kidding me? How can you get fined for driving slower than speed limit (which itself states 90 OR less) posted? That's ridiculous. :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ You can get fined if there is a minimum speed limit, or if you are driving dangerously slow. You read about grandpa's getting fined, or their license revoked because of very slow driving every week in NL.


----------



## mapman:cz

Yes, it is obviously possible to get fined, for example our road traffic act states:

Act 361/2000 Coll.

§ 18 2)
Driver is not allowed
...
b) restrict the flow of traffic on the road, especially by unreasonably slow drive and slow overtaking.

Unreasonably is the key word, if you drive 60 kph on a stretch while there is a 90 kph limit, it might be treated as unreasonable...


----------



## Majestic

Yes, but being fined for doing 60 on such road is a bit of an exaggeration.


----------



## keber

^^ Not for me. If the road is for 90, then use it for that. (Actually the fine is for people, who drive less than half of permitted speed and obstruct traffic)


----------



## dubart

keber said:


> ^^ Not for me. If the road is for 90, then use it for that. (Actually the fine is for people, who drive less than half of permitted speed and obstruct traffic)


I think the signs "90" mean 90 km/h MAX, not 90 km/h ONLY. At least here they do.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

dubart said:


> I think the signs "90" mean 90 km/h MAX, not 90 km/h ONLY. At least here they do.


That's true, but that doesn't justify to drive much slower because "90 is only the max". If the road allows, you should always drive the speed limit on one lane roads.


----------



## dubart

ChrisZwolle said:


> That's true, but that doesn't justify to drive much slower because "90 is only the max". If the road allows, you should always drive the speed limit on one lane roads.


I agree, but for driving 60 one shouldn't be fined. It ain't extremely slow.


----------



## keber

dubart said:


> I agree, but for driving 60 one shouldn't be fined. It ain't extremely slow.


It ain't if you're alone on the road or the traffic is very light. What about if there is a lot of traffic? Would you tolerate driving behind old granny with 60 km/h and road allows 90, but you can't overtake because of dense oncoming traffic.


----------



## Majestic

Actually I would feel much safer on the road with an old granny doing 60 rather than 90.


----------



## keber

When you are in a hurry, I'm not sure, if you would agree with granny's "safe" speed.


----------



## Verso

So you won't tell me I don't wanna show you pics of our ordinary main roads, here are pics of the G7 (Rijeka - Trieste), some of you have already seen them.


----------



## Total

Well, i do not believe 60kph in 90kph zone is dangerously slow. For example if for some reason i would have to drive that slow i guess i would try to stop whenever i can to pass the people behind me. I think the "dangerously slow" situations is less than 60 on 130kph road (motorways, which i think they do have minimum speed req., true, i am not sure how much is it... i think 60 in croatia)

Now i checked and for Croatia is: (i doubt it is much different for others)

minimum speed is half the max speed, so on 90 is 45. But you can drive slower with all four turning signals on or yellow warning lights (rotating ones, like emergency uses blue...)

So 60 in 90 zone is quite ok. But still, yeah it is polite to pass through the cars behind you if you can.


----------



## keber

It's dangerous because people riding behind someone with such low speed get very nervous and then some may take big dangerous risks for overtaking old papa.


----------



## Verso

Let's redirect this discussion. H4 finished, still waiting for tunnels to be equipped:


BlackSmith! said:


>


----------



## Mateusz

Is it called Vipavska Hitra Cesta ?


----------



## gramercy

it looks unsafe


----------



## Verso

Mateusz said:


> Is it called Vipavska Hitra Cesta ?


Yes, Vipavska hitra cesta.



gramercy said:


> it looks unsafe


Well, it's full of tunnels and viaducts. I hope there won't be too much transit between Slovenia and Italy going here, but it probably will.


----------



## Mateusz

Some kind of Triest bypass really


----------



## Qwert

Verso said:


> Yes, Vipavska hitra cesta.


Hitra cesta is something like an expressway?


----------



## PLH

Sth like our expys, but with stunning 100 km/h :hahano:


----------



## Verso

It literally means "fast road". For some of them (particularly urban expressways) 100 km/h is quite fine, but especially by this H4 (but not this section) this speed limit is ridiculous. Basically it's b/c of the often bora wind, but as if they can't put portals to regulate the speed limit.


----------



## Majestic

Looks like it was some pretty tough terrain to drill through to complete this section.



Verso said:


> Yes, Vipavska hitra cesta.
> 
> Well, it's full of tunnels and viaducts. I hope there won't be too much transit between Slovenia and Italy going here, but it probably will.


Wouldn't transit rather go to Italy via A3?


----------



## Verso

Majestic said:


> Looks like it was some pretty tough terrain to drill through to complete this section.


It's been U/C for a decade.



Majestic said:


> Wouldn't transit rather go to Italy via A3?


Apparently not, even though it's just some 2 km shorter. Italians are even gonna transform the RA17 into a full motorway. Signs on both sides of the road (G12, H4, RA17) already now suggest to go over Gorizia rather than Trieste (and always have), which is at least for now ridiculous. In Slovenia (A1×G12) the sign looks like this (a clear preference for Gorizia/Nova Gorica, Trieste isn't even translated :nuts, while in Italy (A4×RA17) Slovenia (SLO) isn't even written in direction Trieste (although it should be already b/c of Koper).


----------



## pijanec

keber said:


> ^^ Not for me. If the road is for 90, then use it for that. (Actually the fine is for people, who drive less than half of permitted speed and obstruct traffic)


Not really. Fine for driving less than half of permitted speed is next article in our Traffic law. Fine for this violation is also 60 euros.

Article before that states that someone is not allowed to drive under maximum allowed speed limit if there are 3 or more cars behind him.


----------



## Majestic

Why H4 is not signed here? Does the yellow background mean it's a hitra cesta?


----------



## veteran

Majestic said:


> Why H4 is not signed here? Does the yellow background mean it's a hitra cesta?


As I know, the yellow background is used in Slovenia for state roads. I saw last year on H7 a blue background. It's same as in Croatia.


----------



## keber

Majestic said:


> Why H4 is not signed here? Does the yellow background mean it's a hitra cesta?


This overpass will get new sign with opening of H4.


----------



## Mateusz

In fact, in Slovenia they don't put [H4] on signs and so on, in case of expressways


----------



## Verso

Majestic said:


> Why H4 is not signed here? Does the yellow background mean it's a hitra cesta?


Yellow is for ordinary roads (outside settlements), expressways/motorroads are blue. It's yellow here, b/c the H4 doesn't start here yet, but some 11 km further (first it's G12).



Mateusz said:


> In fact, in Slovenia they don't put [H4] on signs and so on, in case of expressways


Not always, but there certainly are:

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee119/Verso1/a1primorska171fr9.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee119/Verso1/a1a5001mc6.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee119/Verso1/a1primorska075fs1.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee119/Verso1/a1primorska095vm1.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee119/Verso1/pa191208.jpg


----------



## Mateusz

Cool, ti's first time I see it ! Well done Slovenia


----------



## dubart

You guys say Pulj for Pula?! Didn't know that


----------



## x-type

dubart said:


> You guys say Pulj for Pula?! Didn't know that


actually, they don't. but they should. i'm sure that Joško Joras says "Pulj" and that he doesn't understand "Pula".


----------



## pijanec

I've never heard anyone saying "Pulj". Like no one says "Gradec".


----------



## Mateusz

Or 'Pulja'


----------



## x-type

Mateusz said:


> Or 'Pulja'


that would be albanian


----------



## Buddy Holly

x-type said:


> that would be albanian


Actually Albanian would be Pula. The l in Pula is pronounced as lj in Pulja. 

http://sq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pula_(Kroaci)


----------



## zezi

Maribor bypass, and Maribor - Ptuj are on time?
Opening in june?


----------



## pijanec

No way. Probably July.


----------



## Mateusz

Can be called Zagrebacka Avtocesta or Ptujska Avtocesta, or something similiar


----------



## pijanec

It's called "Podravska" avtocesta.


----------



## Mateusz

Is Podrava some kind of region there ?


----------



## Verso

Podravje. It means Drava basin. It's the same with other rivers: Posavje, Pomurje, Posočje, Posotelje, Porenje, Porurje, Podonavje, Povolžje; we don't have expressions for all of them though; I can't imagine Poljubljaničje. :lol: Zasavje OTOH is I think Sava valley (east of Ljubljana), but I don't think we use "Za-" for any other river.


----------



## SmarterChild

Nice pics of the G7 road verso! btw, did you notice the tags of this thread? "verso small country, versotology" rofl!


----------



## Verso

^ Or "croatia". :crazy:


----------



## dubart

...and _cheap vignettes_ :lol:


----------



## SmarterChild

I just noticed "small and tiny" lol, Maybe I'll add a few random ones too.  

J/K


----------



## Verso

I wonder who's so humorous. :lol:


----------



## Verso

Maybe you find them a bit outdated, because they haven't changed much since times of Yugoslavia. But anyway, I've noticed Croatia uses a better material, e.g. our signs very soon become almost invisible at night. Also, we've got worse icons for interchange and exit than we already used to have. I also like by Croatian signs icon for the next exit on distance signs, because here it can be confusing. For example, the distance is to the next exit, but the distance to the town shown is bigger.


----------



## snupix

Ban.BL said:


> I wanted to ask you what exactly you don´t like and why, but you answered already that you have no clue.


IDK, they look somehow dated - maybe bc they look flat (without that 2-3 cm edge around).

For example, here you can see that it already bended - it looks very thin. I know now I'm complaining Radi-style, but I just had to say 
And I agree with what x-type said, maybe that's the reason.


----------



## keber

That is the original sign from 1984:








Has been replaced last year because of obvious wear.

This one is from year 2000:









And this one is from year 2008:









As you can see, practically no difference in design in last 25 years. Actually this design (I think) appeared already in 1980 with opening of first section of Ljubljana bypass, so design is almost 30 years old. Before that signs had all letters capitalised (some signs can still be found on some local roads).

Practically same design is used in Bosnia and Hercegovina, Serbia and Macedonia, Croatia changed design (I especially like their arrows) in 1990-ies (I think)


----------



## Ban.BL

There is small difference between font, the one from 80´s and 
the new one are almost 100% indent, but the one in the middle is narrower. 
honestly i don´t see that big difference in Croatia´s signs.
And why changing what is good.


----------



## Verso

keber said:


> Actually this design (I think) appeared already in 1980 with opening of first section of Ljubljana bypass, so design is almost 30 years old. Before that signs had all letters capitalised (some signs can still be found on some local roads).


Yes, Italian style. And true, this sign is from 1979, when the motorway beside it was opened, while the western Ljubljana bypass (from 1981) had the current design since its opening.



Ban.BL said:


> honestly i don´t see that big difference in Croatia´s signs.


Fonts are still the same, I think, but signs are quite different.



snupix said:


> maybe bc they look flat (without that 2-3 cm edge around).


What do you mean?


----------



## Norsko

To be honest, I find the Slovenian signage more consecvent than the Croatian. In the New Croatian design they are mixing both new "open" arrows with the old ones. I do not understand why they did not change them all. If Slovenia is going to change their design I would prefer it if they changed it 100 % (Yes, I know I sounds like Radi right now :runaway


----------



## PLH

Verso said:


> What do you mean?


Edges are not bented and the sign looks like a sheet of paper. But this is the least important proble I suppose.


----------



## Ban.BL

Verso said:


> Fonts are still the same, I think, but signs are quite different.


What is so different about them?


----------



## x-type

keber said:


> Croatia changed design (I especially like their arrows) in 1990-ies (I think)


actually, first redisegned signs appeard in 2001 here. but we also had some inter-phase which wasagain quite different from your signs. i will try to find some photos to show what i mean.
edit: i have found half of sign from that period, here



Verso said:


> Fonts are still the same, I think, but signs are quite different.


fonts are also slightly different, our is kinda thinner.


Norsko said:


> To be honest, I find the Slovenian signage more consecvent than the Croatian. In the New Croatian design they are mixing both new "open" arrows with the old ones. I do not understand why they did not change them all.


true, but there is defined which have open arrows, and which have closed. actually, open arrowshave all except those for navigating traffic in second degree, so direction tables (those where you have large arrow connected with other arroes)


----------



## Norsko

^^ I see what you mean now. :cheers: Signs with just plain arrows uses new open arrows, while those signs looking a bit like a map (birdview of the exit, roundabout, T-junction etc) uses old types of arrows


----------



## Verso

Ban.BL said:


> What is so different about them?


I think these two signs are quite different from each other:


----------



## Norsko

^^
Those signs looks like the autobahn signs in Germany, as do the 1000m sign before this one, with exit symbol, name and number on them. On the other hand I think the 250m sign in Croatia (yellow, with black triangle arrows next to each destination) looks like Italian autostrada signage...


----------



## Ban.BL

They are similar


----------



## keber

They are, but I think Croatian one is better, things are more clear and obvious.


----------



## RipleyLV

Rare images where you can see jams on Slovenian motorways, these are all on A1 between Celje and Ljubljana. Jams were caused because of construction works on motorway. Now they are finished. Pictures taken on 19.06.



























Gypsies live here near Vransko exit on A1. :lol:









Is this the biggest overhead sign in the world? 
Taken on 26.06.


----------



## Verso

^^ I wonder if they've heard of Graz. Great pics otherwise, Ripley, and lol at the gypsies.


----------



## PLH

^^ Great sign, but why such a small font? You can hardly see what's written there hno:


----------



## Verso

You should see other signs on the new section. One gives Maribor-north as a destination in direction south.


----------



## Ban.BL

It is too big, the sign. Why there are no hard shoulders on this section of A1?
http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q420/Ripley9895/IMG_3460.jpg
http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q420/Ripley9895/IMG_3461.jpg


----------



## x-type

PLH said:


> ^^ Great sign, but why such a small font? You can hardly see what's written there hno:


i think that letters are not that small, but they seem to be small on that oversized sign


Ban.BL said:


> It is too big, the sign. Why there are no hard shoulders on this section of A1?
> http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q420/Ripley9895/IMG_3460.jpg
> http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q420/Ripley9895/IMG_3461.jpg


i think it's on viaduct


----------



## Timon91

Yeah, I guess that I'll get a monthly vignette. I'm staying in Smallvenia for only 11 days


----------



## zezi

Is it true that Slovenia postponed opening part of A2 Trebnje - Novo Mesto (Ljubljana - Zagreb) for one more year?


----------



## pijanec

^^Yes, that section won't be open before 30.06.2010. :bash:


----------



## Verso

zezi said:


> Is it true that Slovenia postponed opening part of A2 Trebnje - Novo Mesto (Ljubljana - Zagreb) for one more year?


Officially, yes. But unofficially we've known this before (no one could've been so stupid to think the motorway would be opened two days ago). We've been talking about 2010 in this thread for a while, there are enough pics to confirm it.


----------



## zezi

Maribor - Lendava - H border - is completely finished and opened ?


----------



## Verso

Yes, since October.


----------



## pijanec

x-type said:


> 0:12 - 0:22 looks like Slovenia because between Zagreb and Beograd you could find forrest only between Županja and Lipovac, and this doesn't look like that forrest, i'd rather say it's Slovenia. rest canbe anywhere between Ljubljana and Beograd.
> btw cars are suspiciously good, i bet those are mostly Turks going back from Germany


Isn't this an old road between Ptuj-Zagreb? 

Driving in that video isn't anything special for that time. It was also common on G1-9 15 years ago.


----------



## x-type

pijanec said:


> Isn't this an old road between Ptuj-Zagreb?
> 
> Driving in that video isn't anything special for that time. It was also common on G1-9 15 years ago.


i would say it is somewhere around Novo Mesto


----------



## pijanec

If anyone is traveling through Slovenia this summer and doesn't want to wait 5 hours to cross border point at Gruškovje/Macelj, drop a note here and I'll give you directions where you will wait 0 minutes.


----------



## x-type

about which border point are you talking?


----------



## pijanec

^^Thanks for warning me. I fixed it.


----------



## Mateusz

It's probably some dodgy 'crossing' in mountains ha ha ha


----------



## Verso

^ Mountains between Maribor and Zagreb? 


PS: how about we slightly change the thread's name into "[SLO] Slovenian Highways | *Slovenske a*vtoceste"? It would be cool to have "Slovenske avtoceste" and "Slovenské dial'nice".


----------



## pijanec

Mateusz said:


> It's probably some dodgy 'crossing' in mountains ha ha ha


Nah, I just find it stupid that people wait like 5 or 6 hours in the sun while parallel border point (15 minutes of driving away) is deserted during summer. I even went to the border point and asked officer if foreigners are not allowed to cross or why there is nobody. :lol::lol:


----------



## Verso

Cool title!  Except "*a*vtoceste" should be with small "a", even in a title.


----------



## x-type

Mateusz said:


> It's probably some dodgy 'crossing' in mountains ha ha ha


he actually didn't have bad idea because Gruškovje-Macelj is too small and too congested for traffic volume which appears there (unlike some claim opposite). but there is not much philosophy with avoiding it: you can choose one of border crossings which are in surrounding, and they all are well accessable


----------



## bozata90

x-type said:


> he actually didn't have bad idea because Gruškovje-Macelj is too small and too congested for traffic volume which appears there (unlike some claim opposite). but there is not much philosophy with avoiding it: you can choose one of border crossings which are in surrounding, and they all are well accessable


Well, can somebody recommend me an alternative of Bregana - Obrezie? There the problem is bigger, because there is no crossing point near by.


----------



## Verso

bozata90 said:


> Well, can somebody recommend me an alternative of Bregana - Obrezie? There the problem is bigger, because there is no crossing point near by.


There are two border crossings very close to it, one on each side of it. They are reserved for citizens of EEA, Switzerland and Croatia.


----------



## Qwert

Verso said:


> Cool title!  Except "*a*vtoceste" should be with small "a", even in a title.


Now Chris should rename Slovak thread into [SK] Slovak *H*ighways - Slovenské diaľnice (there h instead of H now) and it would be perfect. I can't wait to see some photos of Slovenian motorways in Slovak thread and vice-versa.


----------



## Verso

The titles are almost the same now. :hilarious


----------



## RipleyLV

Verso said:


> But it will be 1 euro cheaper for cars; I'm not sure about trucks.


I'm sure truckers will pay at Razdrto around 27 €, while at Dane only 23.60 €.


----------



## Verso

Yeah, but you pay more in Italy.


----------



## Verso

The new A4 motorway Maribor - Ptuj. The first sign is huge and hilarious. :lol:





And back (featuring an accident with a burnt car).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

OMG:


----------



## x-type

this is the ugliest and the most octopusy, motorway sign ever. what a wast of space! btw, they could really do it without left turn! for gods sake, it's not german motorway from 60es!

what is the name of the toll station?


----------



## Verso

Octopusy. :lol: That left turn has been here since always, just direction for Ptuj/Zagreb was missing. It looks weird, but at least it's not on a transit route (from Maribor), and motorway only starts. The toll station is called 'Prepolje'.

357 km to Budapest (rather useless on A4 (by Ptuj)):


miran2005 said:


>


I like this picture of the toll station:


miran2005 said:


>


----------



## pijanec

x-type said:


> this is the ugliest and the most octopusy, motorway sign ever. what a wast of space! btw, they could really do it without left turn! for gods sake, it's not german motorway from 60es!


It's start of the motorway. That's why this area is not even fenced (you can see the sign for wild animals). They could just move motorway sign few hundred meters ahead and everything would be by rules. :lol:


----------



## ABRob

ChrisZwolle said:


> OMG:


:rofl::rofl:
Idiotic sign!

Ist there a map/a plan of this interchange? It's not looking well designed ton me.



Verso said:


> I like this picture of the toll station:


hno:
You should get the German or the Austrian HGV-toll-system instead (Or what is this for?).


----------



## Morsue

ChrisZwolle said:


> OMG:


Video won't play!! :bash:


----------



## Verso

^^ :lol:



ABRob said:


> :rofl::rofl:






ABRob said:


> Ist there a map/a plan of this interchange? It's not looking well designed ton me.


You can see it here (north is on the left). You can't go from the A1 SE of Maribor back to Maribor any more, but it isn't necessary anyway. Slivnica is the first Slovenian motorway interchange with four directions (even though the motorway to Maribor is very short, but it doesn't look like an ordinary exit).



ABRob said:


> hno:
> You should get the German or the Austrian HGV-toll-system instead (Or what is this for?).


Yeah, it's an HGV toll station.


----------



## pijanec

ABRob said:


> Ist there a map/a plan of this interchange? It's not looking well designed ton me.


This is aerial photo of complete interchange:









As a everyday user of this interchange I found it well designed. Only signage is really bad. hno:


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## Verso

pijanec said:


> As a everyday user of this interchange I found it well designed. Only signage is really bad. hno:


And no hard shoulders between A4 and A1 NE of the interchange.

Here are a few more photos of the new A4 motorway Ptuj - Maribor when it wasn't open yet (credit miran2005):

























































































































































































































:cheers:


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## Mateusz

Any more info about planned road between Celje and Dragovgrad ? Will it be hitra cesta


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## Verso

AFAIK it's been completely cancelled due to the recession. Which is a little weird to say; what if the recession ends soon?


----------



## pijanec

Celje-Dravograd: they should just build some bypasses around bigger villages. I don't think an expressway is necessary.


----------



## Verso

WHERE IS RADI???


arhi said:


>


Austrian-style test of safety distance on the Maribor bypass:


arhi said:


>


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, no non-Slovene would understand such signs...


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yeah, no non-Slovene would understand such signs...


well, wrong


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## Palance

Indeed, totally wrong :lol:


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## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yeah, no non-Slovene would understand such signs...


Huh? There are 300 million Slavs.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

x-type said:


> well, wrong


Croats okay, but...



Palance said:


> Indeed, totally wrong :lol:


...what are the chances some Dutchmen speaks Slovenian?



Verso said:


> Huh? There are 300 million Slavs.


Do they all understand Slovenian? Will someone from CZ, SRB or PL understand these signs?


----------



## Majestic

Yeah, what does that sign say anyway?


----------



## Verso

Relax, Chris, it was a joke.  Ex-Yugoslavs would probably understand it, and perhaps some more Slavs.


----------



## Verso

Majestic said:


> Yeah, what does that sign say anyway?


You guys are used to weird letters anyway.  j/k

The sign says:

safety distance??
-the rule of 2 seconds-
test in 500 m

Sounds a little retarded. :lol:


----------



## x-type

actually, i'm no9t sure if many Croats could translate this if you wrote it at blank paper. 
just to make an image to Chris: 
Slovenian: varnostna razdalja, pravilo 2 sekund, test čez 500 metrov
Croatian: sigurnosni razmak, pravilo 2 sekunde, test za 500 metara

crucial words are not very similar imo (the part after "2" is very similar even in Dutch).

let me test my poor knowledge of Czech:

Bezpečnostný odstup, pravidlo 2 sekund, test za 500 metru


----------



## mapman:cz

x-type said:


> let me test my poor knowledge of Czech:
> 
> Bezpečnostný odstup, pravidlo 2 sekund, test za 500 metru


Well, yeah pretty much that way, you've got good knowledge of Czech, to precise it, it would be:
Czech: Bezpečný odstup, pravidlo 2 sekund, test za 500 metrů
Slovak: Bezpečný odstup, pravidlo 2 sekúnd, test za 500 metrov

Maybe bad question, but is there any more exact info on opening of Maribor bypass? 15.8.? And where can I buy vignette on my way back from Zagreb? At Gruškovje MMP?


----------



## x-type

mapman:cz said:


> Well, yeah pretty much that way, you've got good knowledge of Czech, to precise it, it would be:
> Czech: Bezpečný odstup, pravidlo 2 sekund, test za 500 metrů
> Slovak: Bezpečný odstup, pravidlo 2 sekúnd, test za 500 metrov
> 
> Maybe bad question, but is there any more exact info on opening of Maribor bypass? 15.8.? And where can I buy vignette on my way back from Zagreb? At Gruškovje MMP?


slovenian vignette you can buy at any Petrol gas station in HR (if you're going from seaside, you have one at Zagreb - Karlovac motorway). try also at any gas station at A2, i'm quite sure they could have it. at Macelj/Gruškovje you can buy it for sure (austrian also)


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## Verso

mapman:cz said:


> Maybe bad question, but is there any more exact info on opening of Maribor bypass? 15.8.?


Yes, 14. or 15.8. probably.


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## x-type

i will use it at 16th


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## Verso

With or without a vignette?


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## x-type

with. i am not considering you thieves anymore since you have opened some km's of motorway at route Obrežje - Šentilj. but till now it was pure roberry


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## Verso

x-type said:


> with. i am not considering you thieves anymore since you have opened some km's of motorway at route *Obrežje* - Šentilj. but till now it was pure roberry


You mean Gruškovje - Šentilj.  There will now be ~45 km of motorway between Ptuj and the Austrian border.


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## x-type

Verso said:


> You mean Gruškovje - Šentilj. .


indeed i do


----------



## pijanec

mapman:cz said:


> And where can I buy vignette on my way back from Zagreb? At Gruškovje MMP?


In Slovenia, you can also buy it at gas station at main road in Podlehnik, this is some 5 kms from the SLO-CRO border. If you are passing Slovenia in the middle of the night then buy it in Croatia as there isn't any sale point open between border and new motorway.



Verso said:


> Austrian-style test of safety distance on the Maribor bypass:


The problem with this sign is that majority of users of this section of motorway will probably be foreigners.


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## Verso

^^ I seriously doubt. Many yes, but not majority (> 50%). It's also connection between Ljubljana and Austria/Pomurje/Hungary, and it's also close to Maribor (at least SE parts). That safety distance test isn't that important anyway.


----------



## mapman:cz

Thanks for answers, guys


----------



## Mateusz

Is it true that there are new vignettes introduced ? Cheaper ones ?


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## pijanec

^^Not really cheaper. :lol::lol: There are new 7 days vignette for 15 euros but if you go on vacation for 7 days you need 2 of them which equals 30 euros. 6-months vignette before that was only 35 euros.


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## Timon91

I had a monthly vignette, which was 30 euros hno:


----------



## Mateusz

That's a rip off... 

They should introduce one day vignette for 7.50


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## pijanec

Solution before 1st July was very price friendly for us Slovenians and our neighbours, which often use Slovenian motorway network. Now it is rip off for all of us.


----------



## Mateusz

Main routes in Slovenia are motorways, that's a punch towards everyone pretty much, any official complaints to transport authorities ?


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## pijanec

Won't help. Because of pressure from European Union. Which was pressured by our neighbours. Neighbours didn't understand that it was very cheap for them to buy a yearly vignette for only 55 euros, for example, for someone who travel from Zagreb to Graz/Klagenfurt on a monthly basis.


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## Verso

55 EUR was cheap indeed, now it's 95 EUR.  On top of that, fuel is now more expensive than in Austria, Hungary and Croatia.


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## Mateusz

Welcome to the Western reality !


----------



## Timon91

A2 Predor Karavanke-Ljubljana

1. Leaving the Karawankentunnel.










2. Small bit with 2×1.










3. First exit for Jesenice. 










4. Tollstation and borderstation on the other side.










5. 










6. Six destinations. Bohinj was beautiful btw 










7. I should remove maps from the dashboard before making pics 










8. Viaduct.










9. And another one.










10. Some rain, just before we left the motorway at exit 3 (Lesce/Bled).










11. One week later. We left our car at Rudno Polje for one day, near a construction site. When we came back it was completely covered in dust. The windshield only got dirtier hno:










12. A small jam caused by roadworks.










13. Well, we just left. I didn't go to the casino, btw 










14. Sign seen through a very dirty window.










15. 










16. Tollstation for trucks ahead. Still the other traffic has to slow down to 40 (nobody actually does )










17. Beautiful 










18. 










19. 










20. Šentvid tunnel










21. 










That's it, hope you liked it :cheers:


----------



## RipleyLV

I liked your pictures Timon, you could make more! 



> OMG:


My dad almost crahed us into another truck, because he was distracted by this super-weird-mega-size sign.  

Btw, when you will finally remove that burned bus at Nanos pay toll? It's like staying there for three weeks now. 

And tolls for trucks are extremelly expensive in Slovenia. Going through your country from Hungary to Italy, that's 300km, is worth 80€ in one direction, while in Italy from Monfalcone to Milano-Est pay toll, that's 450km, we payed 51.20€. The hell you thinking?


----------



## Verso

Jesus, what kind of a windshield is that? :lol: Joke.  Nice pics, but... didn't you go to Ljubljana by train? :sly:


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## Timon91

Yes, I did. The rainy pics are from the 9th, I went to Ljubljana on the 11th (by train), and the other pics are from the 17th, when I was on my way to the coast


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## Verso

Thought so, but why did you use H3 then?


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## Timon91

Just A2 --> A1, what's wrong with that? I didn't use H3. 
map

-edit- I see what you mean now. The description of the last pic isn't completely clear. I didn't leave the A2 there, at the next interchange :doh:


----------



## RipleyLV

Timon91 said:


> The rainy pics are from the 9th


Dang, I took pictures of Ljubljana ring on the 8th.


----------



## Verso

Timon91 said:


> 21. This is where we leave the A2.


_This is where we leave the A2._ I guess you meant us, forumers. I thought _you_ left the A2 and went on H3, because the picture is perfect for such a conclusion. :lol:


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## x-type

RipleyLV said:


> And tolls for trucks are extremelly expensive in Slovenia. Going through your country from Hungary to Italy, that's 300km, is worth 80€ in one direction, while in Italy from Monfalcone to Milano-Est pay toll, that's 450km, we payed 51.20€. The hell you thinking?


they keep rising tolls for lorries all the time. less than one year ago toll for Maribor - Šentilj was 2,30€, and today it is 4,40€ :nuts: it's simply robbery!


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## Ban.BL

x-type said:


> actually, i'm no9t sure if many Croats could translate this if you wrote it at blank paper.
> just to make an image to Chris:
> Slovenian: varnostna razdalja, pravilo 2 sekund, test čez 500 metrov
> Croatian: sigurnosni razmak, pravilo 2 sekunde, test za 500 metara
> 
> crucial words are not very similar imo (the part after "2" is very similar even in Dutch).
> 
> let me test my poor knowledge of Czech:
> 
> Bezpečnostný odstup, pravidlo 2 sekund, test za 500 metru


Well in croatian you can say 
Slovenian: varnostna *razdalja*, pravilo 2 sekund, test čez 500 metrov
Croatian: sigurnosni *razmak*, pravilo 2 sekunde, test za 500 metara
Croatian: sigurnosna *razdaljina*, pravilo 2 sekunde, test za 500 metara
than it is easier


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## Timon91

A1 Ljubljana - Koper

The A1 was full of tourists (lots and lots of Dutch), but the motorway itself is beautiful. The pics were taken on a friday, July the 16th. It was very hot weather, with temperatures ranging from 30 degrees (Ljubljana) to 37 degrees (Ankaran). Luckily a heavy storm the following morning cooled it all down a bit.

The pictures:

1. _This_ is where we leave the A2 










2. A1










3. Koper 97 km.










4. Beautiful motorway, rusty crashbarriers.










5. Tollstation for trucks ahead.










6. There it is.










7. 










8. Climbing lane.










9. 










10. Koper 78 km.










11. 










12. 










13. Dutchies everywhere. In fact, there were three Dutch cars behind us :nuts:










14. Almost missed it 










15. Not so long ago a car probably crashed into this sign.










16. Some mountains ahead.










17.










18. Not much traffic here.










19. Exit to Nova Gorica closed.










20. Road works.










21. Small jam on the other side. There was only one lane available on the other side, uphill :nuts:










22. Tourists 










23. Time to clean the windshield hno:










24. 7 destinations 










25. Those blue overhead signs.










26. Stupid dirt 










27. Koper 24 km.










28. Tunnel ahead.










29. Tunnel entrance. Is this the Kastelec or the Dekani tunnel?










30. Dutch tourists again 










31. The famous viaduct.










32. We're following Ankaran/Ancarano.










33. Trieste? Turn off or stay on. It's your choice 










That's it. Hope you liked it


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## Verso

^^ Stupid sign. If you were interested in the old road for Trieste, I guess you wouldn't be on expressway/motorway in the first place. And where did Ankaran disappear?



Timon91 said:


>


If the exit for Nova Gorica is closed, they should strike through "N. Gorica" on the green sign, eh?



Timon91 said:


> 29. Tunnel entrance. Is this the Kastelec or the Dekani tunnel?


Kastelec.

PS: do you ever clean your windshield? :lol:


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## Timon91

Normally we do clean the windshield when gassing up. The first time we forgot to do it, the second time there was no need for it because it was raining. The third time we gassed up was after this. Furthermore, we don't need to gas up often, since we can drive 850 km with a full tank without running on reserves


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## keber

Did you know, that nowadays every car has water sprinklers beside wipers built in?:2cents:


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## Verso

^^ The part reachable by wipers looks cleaner than the rest of the windshield, but it can't always clean everything, especially if it dries.


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## Verso

Verso said:


> ^^ Stupid sign. If you were interested in the old road for Trieste, I guess you wouldn't be on expressway/motorway in the first place. And where did Ankaran disappear?


Other than that, Rabujez is in Italy, and should thus be translated (Rabuiese) and added the "I" oval. Or better yet, remove it from the sign.


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## Timon91

Verso said:


> ^^ The part reachable by wipers looks cleaner than the rest of the windshield, but it can't always clean everything, especially if it dries.


Yeah, we used the wipers and automotive antifreeze to clean that part of the window. When we tried this on the first day it didn't really work, so we had dirty windows all the way.


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## keber

Timon91 said:


> Yeah, we used the wipers and automotive antifreeze to clean that part of the window. When we tried this on the first day it didn't really work, so we had dirty windows all the way.


Automotive antifreeze is not quite an excellent cleaning solution.

Try with some window cleaning liquid.:lol:


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## Timon91

Road 111 Koper-Portorož (-Piran)

1. View to Koper. 










2. Road works. There was some congestion here, because the road narrows from 2×2 to 2×1 at this point. Furthermore, these pics have been taken on a saturday, so everyone was on their way to the beach in Izola and Portorož.










3. 2×1 along the coast. Nice bike path on the right 










4. 










5. 










6. Beautiful 










7. The Italian coast.










8. Near Izola.










9. 










10. Izola bypass is mostly 2×2.










11. 










12. In the end the road narrows to 2×1: congestion.










13. I know this isn't the 111, but it's a nice road (Portorož-Piran)










14.










That's it, hope you liked it


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## Verso

Timon91 said:


> 13. I know this isn't the 111, but it's a nice road (Portorož-Piran)


I think this is G111 too (Strunjan isn't between Portorož and Piran). Nice pics! There's also a cool video of this road.


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## Timon91

That's right. I thought I had pictures of the road between Piran and Portorož, but it seems that I haven't. Cool video btw. Luckily Izola is still there


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## Timon91

H5 Ankaran-Koper

While we were staying in Ankaran my parents and I decided we wanted to see Croatia, so we went to Rovinj. The shortest route from Ankaran to Rovinj is via H5 and road 11 before continuing on the A9 in Croatia. 

Few pics of the H5:

1. Though it seems like the H5 ends here, it still runs to the end of the motorway. The last part is called both H5 and A1. After this interchange A1 is mostly gone from the signs, you only see H5.










2. Merging with the A1 from Ljubljana.










3. 










4. Everything in Italian and Slovene, Pula even in three languages. Bertoki 1 km :rofl:










5. Close to the exit for Pula.










A bit short, but at least the windshield wasn't that dirty


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## Verso

Timon91 said:


> The last part is called both H5 and A1.


It's a bit messy, but I think it's officially only H5. It used to be A1 when the H5 designation didn't exist yet, although it's just a motorroad. I have no idea why there's 1 km of motorway in the interchange with A1, which is also way too winding to be able to drive 130 km/h there. I think the speed is also limited to 80 km/h.


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## Timon91

11 Koper-Croatian border

This road is the main road from Koper to Istria, and a lot of caravans and Dutchies can be seen here. This road is quite curvy, since it's a hilly area, but still there are some 2+1 sections, which make it more comfortable. There is one alternative for this road, which is the 111 from Koper to Portorož, which continues to the border.

1. We've just left the A1/H5 and we're heading south, out of Koper. I like these horizontal traffic lights. Some also have a small LED screen on that counts down and shows how long the light will stay red/green.










2. Between the yellow priority road square and the red light this LED screen counts down to zero.










3. The road.










4. 2+1










5. End of 2+1.










6. 2+1 ends on the other side.










7. This is a beautiful hilly area.










8. 










9. We're in the border valley now.










10. The last village before the border (Dragonja).










11. Customs in 500 meters.










That's it, hope you liked it :cheers:


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## Palance

Timon91 said:


> 11. Customs in 500 meters.


Look for the differences 









1) There was hardly anoyone on the road when I drove there.
2) When you were there, no fruit was sold anymore at this sign 
3) The gate on the right is closed on your photo


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## Timon91

It took us about 5 minutes to get from this point to the point where we left the Croatian customs  They didn't even touch our passports.


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## blagun

Timon91 said:


> It took us about 5 minutes to get from this point to the point where we left the Croatian customs  They didn't even touch our passports.


 You don't need your passport in Croatia. ID cards are also accepted for EU citizens.


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## Timon91

I only have a passport


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## pijanec

Nice photos. I hope you enjoyed in Slovenia and that you will visit it's Eastern part next time. :lol::lol:


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## Palance

Timon91 said:


> I only have a passport


So do I since I also travel outside the EU and I like stamps and visa. Unfortunately I didn't get any Croatian last May. Fortunately I did when I entered Croatia by plane last September


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## Timon91

I also wanted a stamp, but since they didn't check us at all I decided to leave it. So far I only have a US stamp and a Canadian stamp in my passport.


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## Verso

Nice photos, Timon, I put a link in the first post.


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## Verso

Continuation of the safety-distance test:



arhi said:


>


"Test point":


arhi said:


>


:dunno:


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## keber

One of our forumers risked his live to get those excellent photos of almost open Maribor bypass.

Stupid, if you ask me, but photos really have an unique perspective.:lol:


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## Timon91

@Verso: Testing road markings on the second pic? It's not a 23 or sth...


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## Palance

4) Take a train


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## x-type

Palance said:


> 4) Take a train


impossible because of flight schedule. that was my first choice.


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## Palance

5) Fly from Zagreb :lol:


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## pijanec

If you just want to avoid congestion at Trakošćan toll station and Macelj border point: just use exit Đurmanec, then use main road till Macelj where you follow route to Trakošćan and from there to Slovenia via Cvetlin. In Slovenia you just follow main route and join main road just before the start of new motorway. Speed limit is almost all the way 90 km/h on Slovenian side.

Between your options I would choose 2a). But all your options are pretty bad with plenty of 50 km/h speed limits and radar traps.


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## x-type

hell i don't wanna drive on that curvy road from Đurmanec to Trakošćan :rant:
i think i'll use Dubrava/Zavrč, along road 228 there aren't that many inhabited places.+ i'm saving €3 for toll


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## pijanec

Road from Đurmanec to Trakošćan is great, except stupid speed limits. But not that anyone obey them. 

Road from Varaždin to Dubrava is painful to drive. Villages almost all the way.


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## natarajan1986

tunnel roads are great shots


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## Verso

*H4 completed*

*Easier to Slovegas* 









Photo: POP TV

After 7 years of construction they finally opened the last 9 km of the H4 expressway between the interchange Nanos/Razdrto with the A1 and Podnanos, connecting the A1 motorway with Nova Gorica on the Italian border. The section cost 221 million euros and includes 2 tunnels, 2 cut-and-covers, 8 viaducts and a bridge, with a total length of about 4 km. A second fast route for travelling from Ljubljana to Venice has thus been established.

http://www.dars.si/Novice/DARS_dd_bo_drevi_predal_prometu_hitro_cesto_prek_Rebernic_604.aspx

:dance: :dance:


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## ChrisZwolle

Nice. It's already shown in Google Earth.

They need to update the tolls in Slovenia for GE anyway.


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## keber

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nice. It's already shown in Google Earth.


That's pretty fast. It was opened just 4 hours ago.:lol:

(However parts of A2 and A5 are still not shown in GE although they are already 10 months in operation.)


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## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> They need to update the tolls in Slovenia for GE anyway.


They are still valid for trucks though (but I agree, they should color all motorways and expressways red).


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## Motorway Fan

Edit


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## ChrisZwolle

> *Last Section of Maribor Bypass Open to Traffic*
> 
> *The inauguration of the A1 motorway section between Pesnica and Slivnica.*
> 
> Maribor, 14 August (STA) - Just a day after a key transport link was inaugurated in western Slovenia, the final stretch of the bypass around the city of Maribor opened to traffic on Friday. The 10.5km section between Pesnica and Sevnica rounds off the A1 motorway between Koper on the coast and Sentilj on the border with Austria.


:cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

What are the completion dates for the two A2 gaps (near Radovljica and Trebnje)?


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## pijanec

near Trebnje June 2010, near Radovljica June 2011


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## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> The 10.5km section between Pesnica and S*e*vnica
Click to expand...

I don't think Sevnica is getting a motorway any time soon. :lol:

Awesome about the new motorway! Now you can drive about 320 km from the Hungarian border to Koper on motorway. :cheer:


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## Verso

H4:


LoKeY said:


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> Via Nova Gorica:


It's beautiful, but I hate 80 km/h through tunnels. And they should add Venice; Udine is a cul-de-sac.


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## ChrisZwolle

Italian style road (you know what I mean  )

80 km/h through tunnels is awfully slow. 100 is better.


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## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> Italian style road (you know what I mean  )


Yeah, just that it's new. :lol: It's a tough terrain, but I doubt driving 100 km/h through tunnels would be dangerous.


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## RipleyLV

Look's good! My dad will be driving there on Monday. He's in Murska Sobota rest area now, I informed him that Maribor bypass and H4 is opened, so I hope he will try them out! :cheers:


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## keber

ChrisZwolle said:


> Italian style road (you know what I mean  )


It's only an expressway, not motorway.


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## ChrisZwolle

Let's just say expressways and motorways lacking shoulders are a pet peeve of mine


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## Verso

I don't mind, if a motorway/expressway with low traffic lacks shoulders. The German A8 Salzburg - Rosenheim is a nightmare OTOH.


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## ChrisZwolle

It's not OTOH, it's a PITA!


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## Verso

Replacing "OTOH" with "PITA" doesn't make much sense. :lol:

Ripley, tell us how he liked the new roads. :cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

You'll get the gist 

What's the next motorway/expressway opening in Slovenia?


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## RipleyLV

Verso said:


> Ripley, tell us how he liked the new roads. :cheers:


Ok.


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## Verso

A2 by Trebnje next year.


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## Mateusz

A2, like a motorway for longest time U/C


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## x-type

Verso said:


> A2 by Trebnje next year.


uf, don't be so sure. i thing A6 between Slovenj Gradec and Škofja Loka will be completed sooner :drool:


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## Verso

No, the one on Triglav, lol.


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## Verso

Some more of the beautiful H4. Nova Gorica looks huge compared to Trieste on the first sign.  And they could add "Trieste", if they were already modifying the sign.


bojc said:


>


=)


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## keber

Mateusz said:


> A2, like a motorway for longest time U/C


20 years up to now from LJ to Zagreb. Not quite the shortest time, but also not the longest. A1 was completed yesterday just after 39 years of construction.


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## Mateusz

Is H4 toll road ?


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## pijanec

Yes.


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## LoKeY

For trucks and busses of course...


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## Timon91

Cars need a vignette and buses and trucks have to pay at a tollbooth?


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## Verso

^ Yes, as always.


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## bojc

The new section of H4 over Rebernice in direction of Nova Gorica. Enjoy.


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## Verso

^^ Man, that's like a roller coaster.


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## H123Laci

^^ well, there are really an extreme amount of kurva on that road... :lol:


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## Verso

'Kurva' is a ***** in Serbo-Croatian.


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## RipleyLV

Not this again...

Hey look, it's my 1,000 post!!! :banana:


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## SeanT

Verso said:


> 'Kurva' is a ***** in Serbo-Croatian.


 ...Is it? Very strange...:lol:


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## bozata90

Verso said:


> 'Kurva' is a ***** in Serbo-Croatian.


in Bulgarian too...


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## Mateusz

It's all same in Slavic languages


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## Timon91

In Dutch "kurva"......has no meaning


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## H123Laci

Verso said:


> 'Kurva' is a ***** in Serbo-Croatian.


in hungarian too... :lol:

(maybe i used this word not by accident...  )


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## keber

c'mon, stop blowing up Verso's grammar and language obsession.


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## Palance

In Dutch, the word "curve" exists. Which does not mean '*****' BTW


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## Timon91

Yeah, "curve" is a curved line a graph AFAIK. Still it's not "kurva"


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## Verso

keber said:


> c'mon, stop blowing up Verso's grammar and language obsession.


I'm not obsessed, but I don't know why H123Laci used 'kurva' instead of 'curve(s)'; the rest wasn't written by me. There's way too much spam on this page, it would be best to delete it all.

Another thing: who keeps writing '(western) balkans' and even 'balkanija' (wtf?) in tags? Retarded tags aren't allowed, and I'm sure no one who wants to find Slovenian highways on SSC will write '(western) balkans' (let alone 'balkanija') in tags finder. Chris, please delete them; thanks.


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## H123Laci

^^ it was just play with words...


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## Verso

^ Well, I didn't see any ***** on that road.


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## RipleyLV

My dad drove on Maribor bypass today, he said, that it saves approximately 20 min., but he didn't use H4 (he promised that will drive there on the way home), he drove as always using A3, because this time, his sister ordered to buy "olio di semi vari", a 10 liter barell of sunflower oil, his friend ordered a bottle of Italian vine :cheers:, and I - ordered those tasty beacon chips!  And all these goods you can by at this good and cheap market "Euro Spin", at the Fernetti border. Here's a pic of it;



> http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee119/Verso1/Italy011.jpg


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## x-type

i drove it yesterday. it definitely saves time, but signalization is quite poor. for instance, at exit Pesnica (former end of motorway) you must follow signs to "razcep Dragučova". this reminds me on polish sindrome of border villages. places at A5 are signed clearly everywhere, but for A4 not really. 
also, when i was arriving, i got lost in those "octopus" signs and i ended at exit Fram instead of direction Austria. 
overhead signs are poorly illuminated, so during the night when the dew falls, they are absolutely unreadable (because knots (for instance Dragučova) are not illuminated enough neither imo).
motorway itself is ok, as any new motorway. i missed sign for river Drava, i don't know is it placed or it even doesn't exist


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## Verso

^^ There are surely signs for Zagreb and Ljubljana at Pesnica?



RipleyLV said:


> My dad drove on Maribor bypass today, he said, that it saves approximately 20 min., but he didn't use H4 (he promised that will drive there on the way home), he drove as always using A3, because this time, his sister ordered to buy "olio di semi vari", a 10 liter barell of sunflower oil, his friend ordered a bottle of Italian vine :cheers:, and I - ordered those tasty beacon chips!  And all these goods you can by at this good and cheap market "Euro Spin", at the Fernetti border. Here's a pic of it;


And a sign. Well, he might not like the new H4 section that much in the other direction. It's steep and without third (slow) lane.  But apparently it's at least full of whores. :lol:


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## x-type

Verso said:


> ^^ There are surely signs for Zagreb and Ljubljana at Pesnica?


maybe Ljubljana, but i wouldn't swear.


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## RipleyLV

Verso said:


> It's steep and without third (slow) lane.


There isn't a third lane?? Shit, he's going to be very disappointed, because he hates motorways on which you can't overtake, especially if it's a steep one. hno:



> But apparently it's at least full of whores. :lol:


Where do they stand?


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## Verso

RipleyLV said:


> Where do they stand?


LOOOOOOOOOOL, there are no whores on it (or anywhere else), I was joking due to what H123Laci wrote. :lol::lol::lol:


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## Mateusz

Verso said:


> ^ How could an ordinary road have a status of motorway? :nuts: Unless you mean when it wasn't A1 yet, but A10. Yes, of course it had status of motorway since it was opened in 1972 (of course just where it was actually a motorway back then (Postojna - Vrhnika)).


I mean dual carriageway north of Ljubljana, before A1 was even constructed


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## Verso

dpp33 said:


> Why are you building H6, instead of building H5 to reach the Croatian border?


Not to interrupt local traffic on the Slovenian coast. Of course you can always build a 6-lane motorway/expressway, but I guess it's better for our tourism not to have so much transit traffic going there. H6 will also be shorter than H5 would be to the Croatian border.



Mateusz said:


> I mean dual carriageway north of Ljubljana, before A1 was even constructed


Which road exactly do you mean? Today's H3 or G104 towards Trzin? H3 was signed as A10, but it was always a motorroad (it even used to have speed limit 80 km/h). It was given designation *A*10, because it's actually wider than motorways. As for G104, I guess it was just #10 (I don't think we had these G* prefixes back then, but I doubt it was A10). Back then it was 4-laned just for 3 km (now it's 7 km) and all 3 km were motorroad (80 km/h, not 100), whereas today only 2 km (100 km/h), the rest is limited to 70 km/h, except 50 km/h through a few intersections. If you don't follow speed limits and if you're not in rush hour, all 7 km are de facto expressway (except, if traffic lights screw you). The last 300 m close to Domžale are designated as R447 (officially R2-447); G104 (officially G2-104) turns left to Kranj.


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## pijanec

Verso said:


> ^ How could an ordinary road have a status of motorway?


I believe this was quite common in Yugoslavia.



x-type said:


> iu just don't like those 80 km/h speed limits at those divided toll plazas, they should have put dynamic signalization for case of crowd, 80 is totally idiotic to be aall the time. btw, i have photos of MB bypass


I agree. Not to mention that toll plazas are completely empty most of the day.


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## pijanec

Verso said:


> ^^ There are surely signs for Zagreb and Ljubljana at Pesnica?


There is HR in a circle. After Dragučova there is Zagreb on every sign there is.



x-type said:


> also, when i was arriving, i got lost in those "octopus" signs and i ended at exit Fram instead of direction Austria.


I agree overhead signage is bad but on signs there is a letter A inside a circle and it is also written on the asphalt in the interchange.


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## Verso

pijanec said:


> I believe this was quite common in Yugoslavia.


Don't be ridiculous; show me just one example.



pijanec said:


> HR in a *circle*
> 
> A inside a *circle*


Oval.


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## ChrisZwolle

I passed by the Trebnje - Novo Mesto construction site day before yesterday and it looks like they were busy with earthworks, but no real road construction yet, but it's hard to observe from the regular highway because of the altitude difference. I hope it'll be completed soon, it's the last substandard part between Ljubljana and Zagreb (and even Beograd).


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## Ban.BL

and even Niš


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## Ban.BL

double


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## ChrisZwolle

*Video: A1, A2, H3 ring Ljubljana*

My first video from my roadtrip to Slovenia.

Make sure to watch in HQ.


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## x-type

pijanec said:


> There is HR in a circle. After Dragučova there is Zagreb on every sign there is.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree overhead signage is bad but on signs there is a letter A inside a circle and it is also written on the asphalt in the interchange.


i have noticed those circles (oh, excuse me, ovals  ) when i was passing there for the second time. they are simply lost in those huge signs. they should have put Graz or Šentilj beside them (and in other direction Ptuj or Zagreb). 
i have also checked signs at exit Pesnica and Dragučova knot: at Pesnica exit it says "razcep Dragučova, Ljubljana" in 1000 m, and then in exit it says "Ljubljana, Lendava, Dragučova, H, HR". that is absolutely not enough because 2 motorways are dividing in next 10 km and there must be put notification for those motorways.
in knot Dragučova all major destinations are there (except Ptuj, i would expect it there), and some Pernica thing appears (never heard of it :dunno: )


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## ChrisZwolle

Here's that MEGA sign


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## x-type

here are some photos from me:

bridge over Drava at Ptuj bypass


















blured photo, but interesting because of yellow markers for motorway









entering A4. everything is signed properly


















one of the octopus signs. quite confusing because only ovals appear, and Maribor is signed twice at green background (i would put it on white)


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## x-type

and going back:
toll plaza Pesnica









exit Pesnica, motorway used to end here. not signed properly imo, especially pre-exit signs (at 500 and 100 m where H, HR nor Ledava don't appear)









approaching knot Dragučova









photos are put in order. so, this one comes after upper one.









nice cut



























there are 2 tunnels and they have SOS lanes



























bridge over Drava. it starts just after tunnel at upper photo and sign for river is unfortunatelly invisible because of its placement 
overtaking for lorries is forbidden at whole MB bypass 2x3h (if i remember well 6-9 and 14-17)









this rest area will be nicely placed under motorway level and it will be nice view onto it from motorway









know Slivnica (A1-A4)


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## Verso

Nice video.  Too bad for so many roadworks on the eastern bypass. I won't comment 'Jubjana'. :lol:


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## Verso

x-type said:


>


3 capitals.  Nice pics! :cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

Verso said:


> I won't comment 'Jubjana'. :lol:


But it's true right? Most Dutchmen try to pronounce Ljubljana with a very pronounced "L". LLL-jubllll-jana. Something like that.


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## Verso

Which is still better than 'Jubjana'.  You have plenty of 'lj' (ly) sounds in English, like in 'batta*li*on', 'bri*lli*ant' and many more. 'Ljubljana' may be harder to pronounce, because of placement of the sounds, but they're pronounced exactly like in the mentioned words (except 'l' in Slovenian isn't as hard as in English, but certainly present; English 'l' is closer to Bosnian 'l' :lol.


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## x-type

i thought that Ljubljana is the hardest european city to pronounce, but my friends from other countries told me that for instance Dubrovnik is much more complicated to pronounce to them


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## ChrisZwolle

Ljubljana... nah try Szczecin, Bydgoszcz or Świętochłowice.


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## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> Ljubljana... nah try Szczecin, Bydgoszcz or Świętochłowice.


polish is not hard to pronounce (at least not for Slavs), but it is disaster to read


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## Mateusz

Yeah 'Jebjana' 

Anyway...what kind of inner bypass Ljlubljana has ?


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## Verso

Mateusz said:


> Anyway...what kind of inner bypass Ljlubljana has ?


Are you for real?  If you mean the ringroad around the center (because there's one more, but far from being a complete circle), it's nothing special, partly 2-laned. The last part of it (the rest of it was built decades ago) begins with construction in a week or two and will have been finished by the end of the next year. It includes a 4-lane double-decker bridge over Ljubljanica (cars up, pedestrians down). There's already an alternative west of it (so you can say ringroad already exists), but it has more curves and intersections.

This blue ringroad is what I'm talking about and this red connection is still missing:


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## Mateusz

Some time ago I even tried to plan this missing bit it is like errrm urban area there ?


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## Verso

Not really, there's an old building, partly protected for its historic importance (many famous Slovenians died there in the 19th-20th centuries from tuberculosis :lol, but just like back then, it's still full of junkies and homeless people, and it's falling apart anyway, so I'd just demolish it all.  Here's its pic, the bridge/road is gonna go through an unprotected part of it:


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## Verso

^^ This is how it's gonna look like:









Other than that, we're expecting as many as 6 new bridges across Ljubljanica this and next year, among others this one looks interesting (but just for pedestrians):


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## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Macelj (SLO/HR) - Maribor*

A few pics of the brand new A4, plus some Macelj - Ptuj pics.

1. Entering Slovenia from Croatia.









2. Vinjeta werbung.









3. Slow national road...









4. Petrol station. This seems like the national brand of Slovenia.









5. Stuck behind slow trucks.









6. Interchange ahead!









7. Exit to Ptuj.









8. This is where we've all been waiting for.









9. Here we go.









10. Top-notch quality.









11. Exit Hajdina ahead.









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:cheers::cheers::cheers:


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## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> 19.


80 km/h already 1100 m before the toll station?! :doh:



ChrisZwolle said:


> 30.


Aerodrom :lol:

All in all - :bow:! This post is getting in the A4 link in the first post. :cheers:


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## pijanec

Verso said:


> Don't be ridiculous; show me just one example.


Even Slovenian G1-9 was in Yugoslavian statistics as "autoput". I also remember blue minimum speed limits signs there.


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## Verso

It was officially never a motorway. The Highway of Brotherhood and Unity was also called 'autoput' by everyone, but never had the motorway sign where it was 2-laned.


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## pijanec

Yeah, they were called autoput (and even written in statistics as such). But there was a reason for it as those 2 lane roads represented half-motorways back then and were meant to be upgraded to full motorways some day in the future.


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## Timon91

Great report, Chris! Will the A4 be extended to the Croatian A2 in the near future or are the Slovenes also trying to block this project to connect Croatia?


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## Verso

Block.


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## x-type

Verso said:


> Block.


Timon is unbelievable. i don't even remember our last arguing about that or similar problems, and then he appears from nowhere and wakes the spirits :nuts:
btw, you should really do that motorway asap


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## Verso

x-type said:


> Timon is unbelievable. i don't even remember our last arguing about that or similar problems, and then he appears from nowhere and wakes the spirits :nuts:


Yeah, that was weird. :nuts:


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## ChrisZwolle

Is there a bypass for Bled planned? Traffic is really bad there during the day. It was backed up from Lesce to Bled, but once you crossed the main intersection near the lake, the problems are mostly gone, except for tourists who can't park along that lake. But it may be much better to construct a two-lane bypass for traffic towards Bohinj. After Bled, the road to Bohinj is quite good. I drove all the way to the west side of Lake Bohinj, and that road was narrow, but very good and safe with nearly no traffic (well, I drove there around 8 am).


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## Verso

Bled bypass has been planned for a while, but these things move slowly here. :nuts: Also terrain isn't easy (tunnels needed).


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## ChrisZwolle

It probably has to be something like this:


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## Verso

^ I guess; the northern part would also require a bypass, which would be easier to construct.


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## ChrisZwolle

I was wondering, does the brand "Petrol" have a monopoly on fuel distribution in Slovenia? I can't remember seeing any other brand.


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## Verso

There're also quite many OMV gas stations and a few others, but Petrol is the most widespread.


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## Palance

Petrol has been the main supplier in Slovenia even during the Yugoslav times. Who remembers the border between Croatia and Slovenia in Yugoslavia where now the Croatian A3 begins? There was a Petrol station in Slovenia, and no more than 500mtrs. away an INA-station which was in Croatia. So there you could know that you had crossed a border.


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## x-type

Palance said:


> Who remembers the border between Croatia and Slovenia in Yugoslavia where now the Croatian A3 begins? There was a Petrol station in Slovenia, and no more than 500mtrs. away an INA-station which was in Croatia. So there you could know that you had crossed a border.


i do


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## Timon91

Verso said:


> ^ I guess; the northern part would also require a bypass, which would be easier to construct.


If there is a southern bypass, a northern bypass is probably not needed anymore. Traffic wasn't that bad when I was there. There was some congestion, but not that much.


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## keber

ChrisZwolle said:


> It probably has to be something like this:


This is planned (your picture is aproximately correct), however here there is very strong NIMBY factor. And this is NIMBY in most obvious form. That's why still no suitable alignment was found even after decades.

Northern bypass is also planned but it is still far from realization.


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## H123Laci

^^ similar situ at Lienz...

terrible jams in tourist seasons... :bash:


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## keber

ChrisZwolle said:


> I passed by the Trebnje - Novo Mesto construction site day before yesterday and it looks like they were busy with earthworks, but no real road construction yet,


Road construction begins end of this year or early next year. Earthworks are a great majority of work to be done. I'll try to make some new photos from construction site next weekend.


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## keber

H123Laci said:


> ^^ similar situ at Lienz...
> 
> terrible jams in tourist seasons... :bash:


True, but no bypass is planned for Lienz in next 10 or 20 years.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Maribor - Ljubljana*

_Click on the title to view the full set._

This set follows A1 westbound from Maribor to Ljubljana, Slovenia's two largest cities. The A1 passes by Celje and through mountainous terrain in the interior of Slovenia.

route:









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49.









:cheers::cheers::cheers:


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## Timon91

Nice report, Chris. Funny that Koper is only signed from Ljubljana.


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## Puležan

Hi! First of all, I'd like to congratulate you on new kilometres of highways:cheers:

Can you tell me what kind of road will be built on the stretch from Koper to the Croatian border (and connection with B9)? Is it going to be an expressway (hitra cesta) or motorway?
And do you know the approximate year in which the road will be completed...


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## keber

It is planned to be 15,5 km long expressway (4 lanes) from Bertoki until Dragonja border crossing. H5 between A1 ending and new interchange H5-H6 (or whatever will be named) should be upgraded to full 3+3 motorway with hard shoulders. Here is some low quality graphics:
http://www.dpa.mop.gov.si/doc/kp_dragonja_povzetek_grafika.pdf

Timeline is not known, but certainly not very soon. Agreement about alignment should be done next year. It will cost at least 280 million euro. Local population is against that expressway, because "they don't need it" (typical NIMBY argument) and that could hinder progress.


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## Mateusz

I really believed that A1 will join with Croatian A9, my dreams are ruined


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## Puležan

thanks!!
that's not bad at all... i thought that they will extend A1, too. But on the croatian side there will be an expressway too (2+2 without hard shoulders), so it's numeration would be B9 (although sometimes it is called A9 even now, when the second carriageway is still under construction).

Just one question: what's the difference between your A5 (which is named as an highway, but in fact it is an expressway) and other expressways (hitre ceste) which are named as H...?


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## Verso

A5 is too internationally important (V. Corridor) to be called 'expressway'. :lol: I guess it's because of the speed limit, which is 100 km/h on expressways, but on A5 it's 110 (although I think they could make an exception, 100 km/h is the _general_ speed limit anyway, not the maximum).


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## Mateusz

A5 is discont style motorway 

4000th post !


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## Puležan

yes. the speed limit is not the factor that determines the type of road, but its construction. so a motorway must have 2 lanes(or more)+hard shoulder in both directions...

but the most important thing is that these roads are built and that they serve us, no matter how they are called

PS Mateusz - congratulations on your 4000th post:cheers::applause:


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## Verso

Puležan;42226544 said:


> a motorway must have 2 lanes(or more)+hard shoulder in both directions...


This isn't required, although it's preferred. The main differences between motorways and expressways are different slopes, different curves, width of lanes... As such, A5 is a true motorway (gentle slopes, gentle curves, not too narrow lanes...), although every motorway could be an expressway, but not every expressway can be a motorway. H3, for example, is even wider than motorways (it also has gentle curves and practically no slope), but it's just an expressway (of course because it's urban and with so many interchanges).


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## Timon91

The A5 could be called expressway because it lacks shoulders, right?


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## Verso

It could be, but the speed limit would then be just 100 km/h (not that 110 km/h is terribly fast, but still better).


----------



## Puležan

Verso said:


> This isn't required, although it's preferred. The main differences between motorways and expressways are different slopes, different curves, width of lanes... As such, A5 is a true motorway (gentle slopes, gentle curves, not too narrow lanes...), although every motorway could be an expressway, but not every expressway can be a motorway. H3, for example, is even wider than motorways (it also has gentle curves and practically no slope), but it's just an expressway (of course because it's urban and with so many interchanges).


of course, I know that... but what I meant to say is that speed limit may vary and does not influence on road classification. for example, the A6 in croatia is classified as an motorway, it has gentle curves, wide lanes, shoulders and all other specifications of an motorway, but still it has speed limit 100 km/h (because of many tunnels (i think 14 on about 100 km). The same way you can have expressway with higher speed limit.


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## Verso

Lower speed limits than general are common, but higher than general are seen as odd. We only have that in settlements - general 50 km/h, but can be up to 70 km/h. I think the Maribor-Celje expressway had 110 km/h speed limit in times of Yugoslavia and shortly after independence.


----------



## pijanec

Verso said:


> A5 is too internationally important (V. Corridor) to be called 'expressway'. :lol: I guess it's because of the speed limit, which is 100 km/h on expressways, but on A5 it's 110 (although I think they could make an exception, 100 km/h is the _general_ speed limit anyway, not the maximum).


That's not true. Slovenian traffic law allows that expressways can have speed limit of 110 km/h. But the problem is that A5 simply isn't an expressway. Planned speed limit for A5 was 130 km/h but after bad publicity in media because there are no hard shoulders they decided for 110 km/h.


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## Mateusz

130 km/h without hard shoulder ? That's bit over rated


----------



## pijanec

I don't really see a problem with 130 km/h on a road without hard shoulders. We have some such sections and even all people on A5 drive at least 130 km/h.


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## keber

Mateusz said:


> 130 km/h without hard shoulder ? That's bit over rated


Common thing around Europe, like Italy, Austria, and of course Germany, even without any kind of speed limit.

Newly planned motorways from 2005 in Slovenia are obliged to have hard shoulder, even in shorter tunnels (but not longer ones). A5 was planned before that.


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## ChrisZwolle

Which German Autobahns have no shoulders, plus a blank speed limit? As far as I know, the speed limit is usually 130 km/h on those sections.


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## keber

I'm not sure, but I think some parts of A8 from Salzburg to München (not all). Though I might be mistaken. Still, 130 is surely allowed.


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## pijanec

ChrisZwolle, German A8 autobahn has no shoulders, but a blank speed limit. There is advisory speed limit of 110 km/h on some sections though...


----------



## Verso

pijanec said:


> That's not true. Slovenian traffic law allows that expressways can have speed limit of 110 km/h.


I know, but it hasn't been used for 15 years, so perhaps it's kind of "forgotten". Anyway, 130 km/h without hard shoulders is no problem to me (e.g. Jesenice bypass). And yes, German A8 sometimes has no speed limit with no shoulders.


----------



## pijanec

^^Actually, this possibility of 110 km/h speed limit was first mentioned in Traffic law from 2004.


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> I think the Maribor-Celje expressway had 110 km/h speed limit in times of Yugoslavia and shortly after independence.


definitely not 110, but 100 because YU speed limits were 50 (or 60?) - 100 - 120


----------



## Verso

Yes, they were 60 - 80 - *100* - 120 km/h, but I think I remember a special speed limit 110 km/h there (but not a few years before it was converted into a motorway, because there was already too much traffic). But for some weird reason (I was small back then) I think I remember the 110-km/h sign right _before_ the Arja Vas toll station, but 110 km/h through a toll station is kind of insane.


----------



## Puležan

in croatia, there's another condition for speed limits. The width of a traffic lane must be 3.5m to have speed limit of 100 km/h, and 3,75m for speeds above 120 km/h. So our motorways have speed limit of 130 km/h and wide lanes (3,75m)...


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## x-type

3,75 is standard for all new built motorways in whole Europe.


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## Puležan

x-type said:


> 3,75 is standard for all new built motorways in whole Europe.


I know that. I just mentioned it to accent the fact that the width of lanes is important for speed limits, not only the fact of having shoulders or not. But, of course, many countries (if not all) have regulations that roads must have shoulders if the speed limit is >120/130 km/h

it's a pity that your A5 wasn't designed with shoulders in the first place. maybe they'll decide to built it some day


----------



## Verso

Mateusz said:


> And what road is that anyway ? :lol: Some local one with no number ?


It's R403 Železniki - Tolmin. Actually it was damaged two years ago, if you remember. Whopping 2,000 km of roads were badly damaged or destroyed then, and Železniki was/were full of mud and looked like a war-zone.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Lesce - Ljubljana - Obrežje (HR)*

_Click on the title to view all 160 pics._

A drive eastbound from my campsite near Bled to the Croatian border, clinching much of A2. The A2 still has a gap near Novo Mesto, and they are working on the last part near Radovljica.

route:









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## pijanec

What sign is under 60 km/h speed limit on last picture?


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## Verso

^^ Exactly what I wanted to ask. Chris, why do you leave out the most beautiful parts? There's no pic of the A2 instantly SE of Ljubljana (2 tunnels), no photo of that long cut-and-cover, and you showed us just 1 out of 6 tunnels between Maribor and Ljubljana, and barely any photo of the section over Trojane. :nuts:


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## ChrisZwolle

Click on the title. There are 165 pics there


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## ChrisZwolle

pijanec said:


> What sign is under 60 km/h speed limit on last picture?





Verso said:


> ^^ Exactly what I wanted to ask.


Believe it or not, it's a non-smoking sign.


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> Click on the title. There are 165 pics there


I know, but you didn't show them.  Anyway, cool non-smoking sign.


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## pijanec

ChrisZwolle said:


> Believe it or not, it's a non-smoking sign.


This sign is illegal and not approved in traffic code. It is also not against the law to smoke there. 

Weird. Our road inspection will fine a road authority if they would put two signs on a same pole, but this is going overlooked. :nuts:


----------



## Timon91

Why the hell would it be prohibited to smoke there? Come on, I've never seen such a sign on a motorway, but the sign seems to be illegal anyway.


----------



## keber

Probably for all those "Germans", "Swiss" and "Italians", who wait before border and cannot hold without cigarettes. Their "wonderful" manners probably forced authorities, which were obviously not satisfied with too dirty roads full of yellow and white filters to put nonsmoking sign.


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## pijanec

But you can't put up an illegal sign!


----------



## bozata90

Actually, it is more because of the buses. When entering Slovenia, there is no EU lane for buses, so you have to wait all those buses from BiH, MK, AL and so on. This is quite a long procedure. So most of the bored tourist are just let on the side of the road near the queue and start smoking. There are no rubbish bins, so they just throw their cigarettes away in the grass. This annoys the border guards and they may fine you with 60 euros, I guess. And - it is legal, since it is a border crossing point.


----------



## pijanec

The fine is actually 250 euros if you throw anything on the road.


----------



## Verso

bozata90 said:


> There are no rubbish bins, so they just throw their cigarettes away in the grass.


90% of them would do that anyway.


----------



## keber

pijanec said:


> But you can't put up an illegal sign!


Why illegal? Remember, it's not a traffic sign.


----------



## pijanec

You are not allowed to put anything not approved by law on the same pole of a traffic sign. Second, on a motorway you can put up only pre-approved traffic signs. Third, on every government owned road there are rules that say how far is protected area where can there be only traffic signage (that's why you have even on G-xx roads advertisements so far away).



> Zakon o javnih cestah določa varovalni pas ob državnih cestah. Ta je širok – merjeno od roba cestišča – 15 metrov ob regionalnih cestah, 25 metrov ob glavnih cestah in 35 metrov ob hitrih cestah. V tem pasu je prepovedano postavljanje reklamnih, obvestilnih in drugih objektov, ki niso namenjeni zagotavljanju prometne varnosti.


----------



## El Ron de Cuba

Hallo,

have anybody pictures of building H5 section near Koper and Izola? When will be this part open?
And date of opening on A2 near Trebnje?

Thank you very much.


----------



## Verso

El Ron de Cuba said:


> Hallo,
> 
> have anybody pictures of building H5 section near Koper and Izola? When will be this part open?
> And date of opening on A2 near Trebnje?
> 
> Thank you very much.


Hi,

The H5 between Koper and Izola is going to be almost entirely in a tunnel, so there's not much to see here. I think it should open in 2012.
The A2 by Trebnje is having new problems with expropriation, so it's not sure, whether it will be finished next year or in 2011. They made some mistakes about it. hno:


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> The A2 by Trebnje is having new problems with expropriation, so it's not sure, whether it will be finished next year or in 2011. They made some mistakes about it. hno:


----------



## Mateusz

Ah Slovene Croatian brotherhood


----------



## Verso

It has nothing to do with it though. We all need this motorway ASAP. Novo mesto is home to the biggest Slovenian exporter (Revoz producing Renault cars) and the biggest Slovenian pharmaceutic company (Krka). If we wanted to screw Croats, we wouldn't've built a motorway between Novo mesto and Croatian border. LOL @ the smilie! :lol:


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## ChrisZwolle

> wouldn't've


Is that a word?


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## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is that a word?


If it hadn't been a word, I'dn't've used it.


----------



## Tom 958

Verso said:


> If it hadn't been a word, I'dn't've used it.


Well, I wouldn't have used it! :lol:


----------



## Timon91

You dasn't ought to use wrong spelling, Verso


----------



## Verso

Sue me.


----------



## keber

To break up that amazingly fruitful conversation ...

*A2 Pluska - Ponikve - construction update from 20th September 2009:*

End of current motorway:









Underpass for forest road:









Most parts are already drivable with normal car:









Towards Novo mesto (blurry):









Overpass for pedestrians is almost finished:


















Just foundation for end section needs to be done:









East from previous overpass:


















Underpass at Odrga village:









East from that it is still unpassable for a normal car, but should be better in a month or two:









Viaduct Ponikve is close to being connected to other side:


















At least this first section (around 7 km long) should be finished before July 2010, earthworks are mostly finished, the same is valid for objects.


----------



## keber

Further there is a problem at junction Mirna Peč:
(pictures were taken in end of August)



























Owner of that house in the middle of the future junction doesn't want to move out despite the fact that his house and surrounding land has been already bought by motorway company.

Also few km before that there is a large parking space for trucks, which owner (of a transport company) does not want to sell cheaply. He wants several millions of Euro for about 1,5 hectares of parking space in the middle of the forest. Of course he bought those parcels years ago, when he found out that all variants of future motorway coincidence in that area. Nowadays economical crisis hit him hard (as most truck companies in Slovenia) so he wants to get the most of those parcels and even agreed sums of money are later rejected by him and demands higher sums.


----------



## KHS

keber said:


>


It looks great!



:cheers:


----------



## El Ron de Cuba

And what about map of project of H5 Izola - Lucija and ?road/expressway? to Ankaran, which is on DARS map?

Thank you.


----------



## Verso

El Ron de Cuba said:


> And what about map of project of H5 Izola - Lucija and ?road/expressway? to Ankaran, which is on DARS map?
> 
> Thank you.


The Ankaran road is gonna be 2-laned, but DARS like to label every road they build as motorway. Also the road between Ptuj and Slovenska Bistrica is totally ordinary, they even hardly built there anything.

As for H5 Izola - Lucija, here's a map (yellow variant):












I was looking at previous pages a little, and only now I see that Timon spotted my parents sunbathing! :rofl:


Timon91 said:


> 4.


I won't tell them.


----------



## Timon91

Really? A pity that I didn't spot you when I was in Ljubljana :rofl:


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## Verso

Ljubljana is bigger. :lol:


----------



## lucaf1

A1:










































Lubiana ring (nord ring: H3; east ring: A1; south: double number A1-A2; west: A2)

























Usually toll station (Tir, bus):


----------



## lucaf1

H4 (with new section)

























IN H4 in the old section there are this green signal even if is a "H road"


----------



## keber

lucaf1 said:


> IN H4 in the old section there are this green signal even if is a "H road"


The oldest section of H4 is actually a motorway with 130 km/h limit and not expressway, even if it lacks hard shoulder.


----------



## lucaf1

No (seeing the signals). The old part near Nova Gorica is a motorway (with no number in the signal). But the other old part of H4 is a H-road but with that green signal. In fact other signals, in the section where there are that green signal, is blue:


----------



## Verso

^^ But it's not the old section, it's the expressway part (EDIT: lucaf1 was faster); anyway, it's a bit messy. Interesting pics otherwise, we don't see many jam pics in this thread; merging there must've been a bitch. 


As keber has noticed, there's come to some renumbering! The planned H6 from Koper to the Croatian border will be H5. The H5 west of Koper (currently G111) will be H6. The existing H5 between Koper and the Italian border is staying H5.
http://www.dars.si/Dokumenti/O_avtocestah/Obstojece_AC_in_HC/H5_skofije_-_Srmin_-_Koper_176.aspx
http://www.dars.si/Dokumenti/O_avto.../Zgrajene_AC_in_HC/HC_Koper_-_Lucija_167.aspx


----------



## keber

Then it is a mistake, it should be blue with current regulations. However I think it was valid in time, when this road was built.
Edit: it really is an old sign, it has yellow broken stripe on left side, it should be white. All old sings not compatible with current regulations should be changed next year (sure ...).


----------



## lucaf1

Two question.

What's the meaning of the first signal?:









What's the meaning of the 50 of the blue signal (here is little):









By the way motorways (A) / expressways (H) in Slovenia are good. Only the guard-rail are embarrassing


----------



## lucaf1

keber said:


> Then it is a mistake, it should be blue with current regulations. However I think it was valid in time, when this road was built.


also because there is a new signal for the SOS in the new section of the H4, the same as the Italian

This, blue:


----------



## keber

Verso said:


> Interesting pics otherwise, we don't see many jam pics in this thread; merging there must've been a bitch.


It a standard every day jam there, merging is pretty easy.

I'll need to take photo sometime and extend my homeward journey through some Ljubljana bypass jams (but I don't have much enthusiasm to do that:lol. 

I'll wait for some rainy Friday afternoon, October is approaching.opcorn:


----------



## keber

lucaf1 said:


> also because there is a new signal for the SOS in the new section of the H4, the same as the Italian
> 
> This, blue:


Yeah, that's the one it should be. But there are too much old signs lurking on Slovenian roads. Some are not changed even at upgrading and they usually just move old panel to new portal.

In Slovenia there seems to be unwritten law - in all areas of life: save there where is the cheapest.:bash:


----------



## keber

lucaf1 said:


> Two question.
> 
> What's the meaning of the first signal?:


Upcoming interchange of two motorways (as used in Austria, Germany and elsewhere - but not Italy)



> What's the meaning of the 50 of the blue signal (here is little):


Minimum speed of 50 km/h on middle lane (or left lane) is mandatory. Again I don't remember it from Italy.



> By the way motorways (A) / expressways (H) in Slovenia are good. Only the guard-rail are embarrassing


True, but they are slowly improving with upgradings of motorway (that is too slow, however)


----------



## Verso

lucaf1 said:


> also because there is a new signal for the SOS in the new section of the H4, the same as the Italian
> 
> This, blue:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> keber said:
> 
> 
> 
> It a standard every day jam there, merging is pretty easy.
> 
> 
> 
> Easy, but slow. :lol: Anyway, if I went right, I'd just continue on the hard shoulder, which is short anyway.
Click to expand...


----------



## lucaf1

And the meaning of Malence?


----------



## Verso

Malence is the name, "razcep" means interchange/junction/split-up.


----------



## lucaf1

Thanks. A new question:

the H1 will survive with the new section of A2?


----------



## Verso

Yes, it will, but it will be recategorized into a regional road with 90-km/h speed limit, not 100 any more. The designation "H1" will also disappear. It's already happened to some sections.


----------



## lucaf1

keber said:


> Minimum speed of 50 km/h on middle lane (or left lane) is mandatory. Again I don't remember it from Italy.



Italian signal with the same meaning:


----------



## mmmartin

great pics


----------



## x-type

lucaf1 said:


> Italian signal with the same meaning:


i think that i also saw version with 110 for the left lane and 70 for the middle lane (just after Mestre, direction MI)


----------



## smokiboy

Hello to my Slovenian friends. I have a question. In about a week I plan on driving through Slovenia from Trieste to Rijeka, do I need to but a vignette for that stretch of highway? On my way back 3 weeks later, I will be driving from Zagreb to Ljubljana (spending a few days there), and continuing towards Austria, do I need a vignette for that section or can I just pay the toll? Thanks for in advance, any other advice is greatly appreciated. Hvala


----------



## x-type

hehe you should better ask Croatian friends how to avoid SLO vignette 
so, the easiest way is to use border crossing Pese between I and SLO and enter HR at Starod/Pasjak.

from Zagreb to Ljubljana and further to Austria buy a vignette, there is no sense to avoid it. and with car you must buy vignette, you cannot pay toll in a classic way.

make a calculation if it yould be profitable to you to buy monthly vignette


----------



## smokiboy

Hvala x-type. Great advice! I just checked the map links you sent me. 
So traveling by your route I do not have to buy the SLO vignette?
How much time will it take me to drive through this section of SLO?


----------



## x-type

no, you don't need vignette for that road. from I/SLO to SLO/HR border you will take app. half an hour.


----------



## smokiboy

Thanks man.


----------



## Verso

Looks like the Ljubljana-Zagreb motorway will be finished next year after all.


----------



## x-type

yeah right :drool:


----------



## smokiboy

I recently looked at a road map of Slovenia, and it looks like the motorway system is basically finished, with the exception of Maribor - CRO border, and Lj - Zg. How many km's still need to be completed there?
What about the Slovenian section of Trieste - Rijeka? Will that section ever be completed?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The A4 Maribor - Ptuj has recently been finished, and I drove there before Verso did :tongue:


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> The A4 Maribor - Ptuj has recently been finished, and I drove there before Verso did :tongue:


i drove before you  btw, that is not considered as finnished because who cares for Ptuj :shifty:


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> The A4 Maribor - Ptuj has recently been finished, and I drove there before Verso did :tongue:


That's because it's more important even to someone from the Netherlands than from Ljubljana, and it's the most boring Slovenian motorway anyway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, it has smooth asphalt and shiny crash barriers!


----------



## Verso

I rest my case.


----------



## Verso

Are you talking about this road?


----------



## Palance

Probably yes, but I have only been there in the summer, so no skiing was needed


----------



## Timon91

Indeed :lol:

I think that I posted some pics of that road before, but here they are again:




























The scenery is beautiful though 

When I was there we parked the car at Rudno Polje (future biathlon stadium) and we walked to the top of Viševnik mountain


----------



## Verso

^ I went from Rudno polje to Triglav. When I was small, we once went on Viševnik to ski, and it was so damn steep that I almost shit my pants.


----------



## Robosteve

Timon91 said:


>


We have roads like this in some parts of Sydney. They usually don't function as main roads though, usually streets or access to parks.


----------



## Verso

At least bad roads aren't boring.


----------



## Timon91

Indeed  This roads exceeds 18% at some point, so it's a real adventure with a Toyota Prius :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Robosteve said:


> We have roads like this in some parts of Sydney. They usually don't function as main roads though, usually streets or access to parks.


This road only gives access to a natural area with a few scattered homes. No through route.


----------



## E.L. SLOVENIA

Also winter 2008/09 was full of snow on Pokljuka :nuts:


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> This road only gives access to a natural area with a few scattered homes. No through route.


You have such a road on the Austrian side of Wurzenpass.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A4:



> faza: avtocestni odsek od mejnega prehoda Gruškovje do meje s Hrvaško (0,56 km), ki je v gradnji, a ne bo odprt vse do dokončanja avtoceste na hrvaški strani. Odprt bo 11. novembra 2009


It says a small section of A4 will open near the border crossing of Gruškovje on november 11th, 2009. Does this mean that short bad section near the border will be history? The rest of the route towards the A4 near Ptuj isn't too bad, one or two intersections, only some slow traffic you can't overtake.


----------



## Verso

^ We're waiting for Croatians. I'm not sure it will actually open for traffic on 11/11.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What are you waiting for exactly? The A2 ends a few hundred meters before the border. Will the new border stations be build at this new section?


----------



## Verso

^^ Yes, of course. We can't open it for traffic until Croatia finishes connection between the A2 and Slovenian border.


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> one or two intersections, only some slow traffic you can't overtake.


actually, if i remember well - 9 of them


----------



## Verso

They've added a line between Dravograd and Holmec (Austrian border):


----------



## Robosteve

It seems like Slovenia's avtoceste are all radial, except for the Ljubljana ring. Have there ever been / are there any future plans to build orbital routes further out, say a direct path between Nova Gorica and Jesenice, or Kranj and Maribor?


----------



## gramercy

look at it on google earth and youll realize why


----------



## Verso

Robosteve said:


> It seems like Slovenia's avtoceste are all radial, except for the Ljubljana ring. Have there ever been / are there any future plans to build orbital routes further out, say a direct path between Nova Gorica and Jesenice, or Kranj and Maribor?


Slovenia is a mountainous/hilly country, so no. Kranj and Maribor IMHO do deserve a better connection north of Ljubljana (i.e. between A2 by Vodice and A1 by Domžale (you can see them on the map)), but all they will get is a more direct road, but with roundabouts.


----------



## keber

New connection between Celje and Novo mesto and then further south to Croatia is also planned but it is far future. Everything else will be better main roads, but no additional motorways, there are enough of them for 2 million of people.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

In my opinion, Slovenia should focus on completing the motorway/expressway links to Croatia and then aim at bypasses of towns and villages. I don't think additional motorways are necessary at this point.


----------



## Timon91

Yeah, especially in summer there is a lot of transit traffic to Croatia. Finish the A2 and connect the H5 to the B9 is important. The G11 was full of slow traffic last summer, which you can only overtake on the 2+1 stretches.


----------



## x-type

that ain't gonna happen even if traffic would increase to 100000 aadt


----------



## Verso

Verso said:


> Looks like the Ljubljana-Zagreb motorway will be finished next year after all.





x-type said:


> yeah right :drool:





x-type said:


> that ain't gonna happen even if traffic would increase to 100000 aadt


Have you ever considered that you're trolling? And trolling is sanctioned, you know. I could go and find much more trolling by you, but Search doesn't work here.


----------



## x-type

sue me to Hague


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Timon91 said:


> Yeah, especially in summer there is a lot of transit traffic to Croatia. Finish the A2 and connect the H5 to the B9 is important. The G11 was full of slow traffic last summer, which you can only overtake on the 2+1 stretches.





x-type said:


> that ain't gonna happen even if traffic would increase to 100000 aadt


That's planned as the H6.

There's a little problem though, where the B9 ends at the Slovenian border, there's an altitude difference of over 100 meters in a very short distance, Croatia is at +130 m, while that area in Slovenia is at sea level. This would call for a huge viaduct descending into Slovenia.


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> sue me to Hague


No, I'll report you to a mod, and if Chris won't send you an infraction, someone else will. You've been warned.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There's no need for infractions yet, but I can understand the Croatian difficulties with Slovenia, because Slovenia is acting very slow with connections to Croatia. Like I said earlier, it should be their top priority.


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> There's no need for infractions yet, but I can understand the Croatian difficulties with Slovenia, because Slovenia is acting very slow with connections to Croatia. Like I said earlier, it should be their top priority.


I understand that, but what x-type is doing is trolling. I don't have a problem with reasoned complaining.



ChrisZwolle said:


> That's planned as the H6.


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=43595602&postcount=2553


----------



## x-type

why do you think that i don't have right to express my opinion about slovenian strategy of building motorways? i am not the only person who thinks it sucks; actually, people with opposite oipinion are minority.

if you can beat my statements, please do it, i will be the happiest person in the world when Slovenia start to build motorways touching eastern border!


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> why do you think that i don't have right to express my opinion about slovenian strategy of building motorways?


You're not expressing your opinion argumented, you are trolling. T-R-O-L-L-I-N-G!


----------



## x-type

well, you could help me make me think opposite with showing me some intensions to build quality connection to eastern border.

i deeply appology myself if my opinion was considered as trolling (althought it insults me a bit, too)


----------



## keber

ChrisZwolle said:


> In my opinion, Slovenia should focus on completing the motorway/expressway links to Croatia and then aim at bypasses of towns and villages. I don't think additional motorways are necessary at this point.


Slovenia is slowly, but finally considering widening of some motorway stretches around Ljubljana. No money however.


----------



## Ban.BL

Verso X-type get a room :cheers:


----------



## Timon91

Cage fight


----------



## Robosteve

Verso said:


> Slovenia is a mountainous/hilly country, so no. Kranj and Maribor IMHO do deserve a better connection north of Ljubljana (i.e. between A2 by Vodice and A1 by Domžale (you can see them on the map)), but all they will get is a more direct road, but with roundabouts.


Ah, okay. Thanks.

Also, what is the difference between A roads and H roads?


----------



## keber

A-road: motorway
H-road: expressway


----------



## ChrisZwolle

In Slovenian:

Avtocesta
Hitra Cesta


----------



## keber

ChrisZwolle said:


> In Slovenian:
> Hitra Cesta


[VERSO="ON"]
Hitra *c*esta
[VERSO="OFF"]


----------



## Verso

keber said:


> [VERSO="ON"]
> Hitra *c*esta
> [VERSO="OFF"]


Don't put your words in my mouth. And unless it's the beginning of a sentence, "h" is small too.


----------



## bleetz

Is there an up to date map of what highways are completed, planned and u/c in Slovenia?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes:



Verso said:


> They've added a line between Dravograd and Holmec (Austrian border):


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What are those orange numbers?

GI-2 or something?


----------



## Verso

^^ I made some adjustments:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What are those orange numbers near Ptuj?

GI-2 or something?

(btw, how do you pronounce "Ptuj"?)


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> What are those orange numbers near Ptuj?
> 
> GI-2 or something?
> 
> (btw, how do you pronounce "Ptuj"?)


Ptui.

orange numbers is road G2, not a motorway


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> What are those orange numbers near Ptuj?
> 
> GI-2 or something?


G1-2 (I call it simply G2), I don't know why they used Roman number for 1 (I). Don't pay too much attention to this road.



ChrisZwolle said:


> (btw, how do you pronounce "Ptuj"?)


Ptooy.


----------



## Trilesy

Here is the most up-to-date map of Slovenian motorways: http://www.dars.si/Dokumenti/About_...programme/Motorways_in_construction__293.aspx
Source: DARS


----------



## Verso

^^ I know, but it doesn't show planned motorways.


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> ^^ I know, but it doesn't show planned motorways.


it still gives the most realistic picture of SLO motorway network in closer future


----------



## keber

*A2 Pluska - Ponikve - Hrastje, construction update 24. 9. 2009:*
First drive on complete Pluska-Ponikve section

1 - Beginning at Pluska (west side) - all following pictures are taken in direction of Zagreb unless stated otherwise









2 - future junction Trebnje - west









3 - overpass before tunnel









4 - tunnel Leščevje









5 - inside, construction is completed, only equipment is missing









6 - other side of the tunnel









7 - back to Ljubljana









8 - first asphalt (around 2 km in lenght)









9 - side curbs, made by a machine









10 - 









11 - 









12 - view toward Ljubljana and overpass for pedestrians









13 - further to Zagreb at Odrga village









14 - view from new motorway, still unobstructed from anti-noise barriers - here were are about 70 meters above current expressway H1


----------



## keber

15 - this section is still not fully broken throuhg, but is drivable









16 - further is now better









17 - high stone pileup in two levels - embankments and cutting are very high through whole section









18 - plateau on right side for future rest area, left side rest area will be located few km further to Novo mesto









19 - further from plateau









20 - just before Ponikve viaduct









21 - viaduct Ponikve









22 - both sides of the valley are now connected, final works on retaining walls are to be completed soon (on the left you can see a car on old viaduct)









23 - viaduct Ponikve from expressway









24 - a parking place of a transport company still in the way









-- here is a void, hopefully pictured next time --
25 - east from future exit Mirna Peč. Old house, located right in the center of the junction was finally removed









26 - this part is advancing very well









27 - 









28 - towards Ljubljana









29 - some asphalt was already laid down









Works are advancing very well, in my opinion they should finish them in no more than 6 months (at least first part until viaduct Ponikve).


----------



## Ban.BL

What are the predictions, when can we expect whole A2 finished?


----------



## keber

Opening should occur until summer 2010. With construction advancement this is totally possible, except the condition of works on part is not known to me (between viaduct Ponikve and exit Mirna Peč). As I wrote, I'll try to visit that part for the next update (it is more difficult to do for me because of remoteness and accessibility for non construction vehicles)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice progress, I remember that very well


----------



## Verso

Ban.BL said:


> What are the predictions, when can we expect whole A2 finished?


A2 between Ljubljana and the Karavanke Tunnel in 2011.


----------



## bleetz

Why isn't there a motorway to the south of the country? Is that not a popular route?


----------



## bleetz

In any case, Slovenian motorway network looks highly developed by any standards.


----------



## Stormwatch153

Have you finished the motorway between Ljubljana and Croatian border?


----------



## Verso

^^ Check a few posts above. 



bleetz said:


> Why isn't there a motorway to the south of the country? Is that not a popular route?


You mean towards Kočevje? It isn't a transit corridor, and there're just some small towns and villages along it.


----------



## Verso

A question (the prize is Slovenian vignette ): where is the only full cloverleaf interchange in Slovenia (I just discovered it )?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Isn't that near Ptuj? New A4?


----------



## Verso

:nono:


----------



## Verso

VVV Everything is allowed here. (damn forum..)


----------



## SeanT

hm, can I take the 50-50% or should I call someone?:lol:


----------



## mapman:cz

Verso probably means that silly one in Koper )) It's funny, only cloverleaf and not on a motorway 

And I want that vignette  Even if it would be this year's vignette after expiration )


----------



## Verso

mapman:cz said:


> Verso probably means that silly one in Koper )) It's funny, only cloverleaf and not on a motorway


:master: You're right, it looks totally silly; I knew there was something suspicious about it!  I guess I would've noticed it's a cloverleaf earlier, if the southeastern part wasn't so far away and skewed. We have a cloverleaf, guys! :tyty: 



mapman:cz said:


> And I want that vignette  Even if it would be this year's vignette after expiration )


You can get last year's vignette.


----------



## mapman:cz

Verso said:


> You can get last year's vignette.


OK!  Delivery terms: Lick it, stick it on your forehead, take a picture of it and post it. Is it manageable? ))


----------



## x-type

that clover seems to have bad tumors at leaves  but it still is cloverleaf


----------



## Verso

mapman:cz said:


> OK!  Delivery terms: Lick it, stick it on your forehead, take a picture of it and post it. Is it manageable? ))


Lol, you serious?  Actually I don't have last year's vignette any more, you'll have to wait for the current one. 



x-type said:


> that clover seems to have bad tumors at leaves


:rofl:


----------



## keber

There was another one nearby, but it has been demolished with new motorway construction (not full cloverleaf just about 3/4, but still ...) Actually it had quite funny design, but was efficient.









Today it looks so and only old overpass remained:
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=45.558317,13.786356&spn=0.0029,0.006968&t=k&z=18


----------



## cardinals1

I give 50% to mapman:cz for a sticker because I really need it and I can't afford it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

How about this nice interchange in Maribor?


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> How about this nice interchange in Maribor?


metastasis


----------



## cardinals1

^^ But that's neither highway or motorway.


----------



## mapman:cz

Verso said:


> Lol, you serious?  Actually I don't have last year's vignette any more, you'll have to wait for the current one.


Serious? More than ever ! 



cardinals1 said:


> I give 50% to mapman:cz for a sticker because I really need it and I can't afford it.


That would not be a good deal for me  Let's say I give up in favor of you, deal with Verso...

BTW - tumors - awesome idea ))


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> How about this nice interchange in Maribor?


The one no one gave a damn about last month?


----------



## Verso

^^ Wait a minute; is this a cloverleaf too (an extremely weird one)?


----------



## x-type

i wouldn't accept it as a cloverleaf. for cloverleaf there should be 2 intersecting roads in x shape. here we have 3 intersecting roads in shape of double cross ‡


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> ‡


Where did you get that symbol?  Yeah, it looks more like 2 interchanges with 2 different roads.


----------



## Verso

Anyone wanna drive through a commieblock? 


manujoao said:


>


----------



## Verso

EU to drop proceedings against Slovenia over vignettes.

Victory.


----------



## Timon91

Whoresons hno:


----------



## banjabuja

Has H5 been finished to Izola yet?
I heard it was supposed to be finished by 2009 sometime...


----------



## Verso

No, and it won't be for a long time.


----------



## keber

*A2 Pluska-Ponikve-Hrastje, 22.11.2009 - construction update:*

First shots through whole section, taken in direction of Zagreb unless otherwise

1 - Beginning at Pluska over exit Trebnje-west









2 - overpass for local road, behind tunnel Leščevje (380 m)









3 - on many part there is already second layer of asphalt, barriers are also being installed









4 - 









5 - 









6 - overpass for pedestrians above Trebnje castle









7 - highest point of motorway over Trebnje (70 m)









8 - one of high embankments (height of cca 30 m) 









9 - viaduct Ponikve from afar ...









10 - and closeup (direction Ljubljana)









11 - 









12 - further from viaduct it is not so smooth anymore









13 - land of local transport company is still not being bought, but at least it is on flat terrain









14 - overpass of Trebnje-east exit


----------



## keber

15 - Trebnje-vzhod exit









16 - further to Mirna Peč motorway climbs considerably









17 - it is also being asphalted









18 - 









19 - 









20 - on top of the climb works are not so advanced









21 - towards Ljubljana ther will be nice view (not seen on the picture though)









22 - the only part still not being dug through, but not much is missing









23 - viaduct Dole, lenght of 300 m (direction Ljubljana)









24 - it crosses very big carst depression (direction Ljubljana)









25 - exit Mirna Peč is behind this curve









26 - exit Mirna Peč, former old house, whose landowners caused a lot of trouble, in the middle of motorway is already demolished and terrain being filled with stone









27 - from the side









28 - in direction of Ljubljana









29 - motorway goes down again









30 - old vs. new









31 - old overpass on parallel expressway









32 - down in the valley, view over castle Hmeljnik









33 - end of section near Hrastje









Workers are advancing very well and opening should be before summer 2010.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice update 

Some sections seems to be almost finished (only final layer and road furniture), others need to have some more work done.


----------



## keber

Slovenian traffic minister said yesterday, "no motorway widenings around Ljubljana or elsewhere, we'll invest in railways instead".
(at least until he is a minister)

Means more traffic problems around Ljubljana.


----------



## H123Laci

^^ stupidity is infinite. :bash:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Too bad. And that while widening the motorway ring around Ljubljana would be enough, the country is small and Ljubljana isn't that big so you don't need 8-lane motorways everywhere. I think widening the ringroad to six lanes is sufficient for the coming years. 

Especially in countries like Slovenia, congestion on motorways can easily and cheaply be solved with adding one lane. Traffic volumes won't jump to 150,000+.


----------



## Verso

Stupid decision. 6 lanes all the way to Domžale aren't that necessary IMO, but definitely to Ljubljana-Šentjakob (road for Litija). I understand, if they don't wanna widen the northern bypass, because it isn't transit, but the rest is necessary, and it will affect whole Slovenia, not just Ljubljana. Ljubljana is almost in the geographic center of Slovenia, and widening to 6 lanes would solve the problem for decades.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, a lot of politicians are now in that "human induced global warming" area, and think that increasing congestion is gonna solve that.


----------



## keber

ChrisZwolle said:


> Well, a lot of politicians are now in that "human induced global warming" area,


Our polititians seem to be one of more supportive. However our minister of transport is again not the one to make wise decisions. I hope that worsening situation will persuade *new *minister to advance idea about widening motorways.


----------



## hofburg

*upper carniola highway*

few pics from ljubljana - jesenice highway:

1. near Vodice (future interchange with Menges bypass) (? Verso?  )










2. exit for Brnik Airport










3. rest side area Voklo










4. exit for Kranj - east










5. storzic (~2100m) in the clouds










6. 










7. Trziska bistrica viadukt (river coming from Ljubelj pass)










8. 










9. Highway and expressway interchange (1. for Jesenice (SLO)/Villach/Salzburg (A), 2. for Trzic (SLO)/Klagenfurt/Linz (A))


----------



## ChrisZwolle

hofburg said:


> 2. exit for Brnik Airport


When did you took these pics? 3 months ago, it looked like this:


----------



## hofburg

hehe, I didn't see it like that yet.  it must be 1-2 years ago. yes, those signs with exit numbers are new. they are not on each motorway.


----------



## Verso

Yeah, it was like that before; you can also see it on my pic from 2007 (in the back):


Verso said:


>


Nice pics, but I'd go to Linz over Villach and Salzburg.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Actually, the fastest route from Ljubljana to Linz is via Maribor and Graz. But it's only 10 km shorter.


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> Actually, the fastest route from Ljubljana to Linz is via Maribor and Graz. But it's only 10 km shorter.


But the sign isn't in Ljubljana.


----------



## hofburg

yes, I know, I put it just because I didn't know what to put beside klagenfurt :lol: I suppose Ljubelj pass is only regional route to Klagenfurt and nothing more. However, was I right about Menges bypass?


----------



## Verso

It should join the A2 somewhere by Vodice, yes.


----------



## eucitizen

Hi, just a question, what will be built in 2010? As I noticed the main infrastructure is already built so maybe few km will be built next year.


----------



## keber

- last part of A2 between Ljubljana and Zagreb should be opened in June 2010. 
- part of A2 from Ljubljana to Jesenice should be finished until summer 2011, 
- H6 between Koper and Izola in 2012 or 2013, and maybe another part to Lucija/Portorož also until 2013.
- A4 to Croatian border in 2012 or 2013.

This is more or less everything of bigger project in near future. There are number of smaller things like additional exits and renovations and establishing new toll system. From 2013 new motorway programme is planned, which will include some new motorways and expressways.


----------



## Qwert

keber said:


> - last part of A2 between Ljubljana and Zagreb should be opened in June 2010.
> - part of A2 from Ljubljana to Jesenice should be finished until summer 2011,
> - H6 between Koper and Izola in 2012 or 2013, and maybe another part to Lucija/Portorož also until 2013.
> - A4 to Croatian border in 2012 or 2013.
> 
> This is more or less everything of bigger project in near future. There are number of smaller things like additional exits and renovations and establishing new toll system. From 2013 new motorway programme is planned, which will include some new motorways and expressways.


So next year it will be possible to drive from Ljubljana to Zagreb without leaving motorway? What do Croatians think about it?


----------



## Mateusz

They will invade Ljubljana


----------



## darko06

Why? We already have a fey large shopping malls in Zagreb, or in the Zagreb suburbia. Even the Slovenes come and buy in them (they get a Croatian VAT return):cheers:
That motorway is ideal for me to go to Poreč on vacations, because a Matulji-Pazin part of the "Istrian Y half-motorway" is the worst Croatian highway.:lol:


----------



## darko06

^^
Actually, I beg Slovenes to begin and finish the H6 from Koper to Dragonja border crossing (Croatian A9 from Dragonja to Pula will be finished in 2011, I think.), thereafter I can drive from Zagreb to Poreč on motorway/expressway.


----------



## x-type

Qwert said:


> So next year it will be possible to drive from Ljubljana to Zagreb without leaving motorway? What do Croatians think about it?


just dream on it will be possible...


----------



## hofburg

darko06 said:


> Actually, I beg Slovenes to begin and finish the H6 from Koper to Dragonja border crossing (Croatian A9 from Dragonja to Pula will be finished in 2011, I think.), thereafter I can drive from Zagreb to Poreč on motorway/expressway.


I think H6 is only Koper - Lucija, for Croatia there will be another one via Smarje (Koper - Dragonja).


----------



## keber

x-type said:


> just dream on it will be possible...


Let's bet about that, shall we?opcorn:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

keber said:


> From 2013 new motorway programme is planned, which will include some new motorways and expressways.


I'm intrigued! Tell me more


----------



## x-type

keber said:


> Let's bet about that, shall we?opcorn:


we should have bet last year opcorn:

btw, you know i will be the happiest person in entire world when SLO build that section! ok, maybe not, the happiest person in entire world will be again me, but when SLO build A4 Ptuj - Gruškovje


----------



## keber

Can't do that, nothing is decided yet. Only that everything, that was planned for current motorway programme, will be finished until 2013. So for additional project you'll need new motorway programme, right? 

3 years old draft-draft, includes also some new feeder roads to existing motorways (see first page picture for a hint):
http://www.mzp.gov.si/fileadmin/mzp.gov.si/pageuploads/06__dodatniACprog_gradnov710.pdf

(A border) Dravograd-Celje-Novo mesto-Metlika (CRO border) expressway is also planned.


----------



## darko06

You mean the bypass between motorways Muenchen-Salzburg-Villach-Jesenice-Ljubljana-Novo Mesto and Bosiljevo-Otocac-Split-(Dubrovnik-Podgorica-Tirana-Athens?)


----------



## keber

^^ Yes. It won't be a full motorway though. Probably in the beginning just two lane expressway (which is more than enough for current traffic).


----------



## pijanec

x-type said:


> ok, maybe not, the happiest person in entire world will be again me, but when SLO build A4 Ptuj - Gruškovje


Why is that section so important to you? There won't be any serious time travel difference (max. 1 minute) between the current road and future motorway as current road will count as a half of future motorway.


----------



## keber

x-type said:


> we should have bet last year opcorn:


I wouldn't bet at that time.


----------



## x-type

pijanec said:


> Why is that section so important to you? There won't be any serious time travel difference (max. 1 minute) between the current road and future motorway as current road will count as a half of future motorway.


safety and comfortable. i mean, if we would think like you, then we could make 10 km breaks of almost each motorway each 30 km, imagine how much money would we save!


----------



## pijanec

Safety was an issue like 10 years ago when on this 15 km strech death toll was around 5-10 people per year. Now every year only some locals die because they are too lazy to stop at stop signs.

I don't think this section will get priority as even motorway Ptuj-Maribor is deserted.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

keber said:


> Firefighters arrived in 7 minutes, so no larger damage was done.


That is fairly quick, considering tunnel Trojane is relatively remote. Celje and Ljubljana are equally far, but there only very small villages closer to the tunnel.


----------



## RipleyLV

^^ Perhaps the Trojane village firefighters arrived...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Trojane has a population of 103. I doubt if they have an own fire department, but it might be possible considering the tunnels in that area.


----------



## keber

There is a special 24h-7d professional firefighter service in Vransko, just 9 km away, established especially for 4 motorway tunnels of Trojane hills. It was considered as unnecessary by some, but now it saved a tunnel from greater damage. Other firefighters needed at least 20 minutes to arrive. Looking at video above, you can imagine, that 7 and 20 minutes can make a drastic difference.


----------



## x-type

what was that all actually about? one truck stopped, the other one crashed into it, but it seems that it was damaged allready soner. what happened there?


----------



## pijanec

phiberoptik said:


> I saw this map on www.promet.si and I'm interested in those section I've marked green and brown:
> 1) green - is this route available, because I didn't go this way since A4 opened, and google maps and www.najdi.si maps don't have this route (I suppose www.promet.si is much better map than google maps and/or www.najdi.si but "bolje pitati nego skitati" :nocrook?
> 2) brown - is this route under DARS vignette system and if it's not, can I go from south with main road 9, go northward on A4 and take very first exit toward Ptuj, which is that brown line, without any need for DARS vignette system?
> Also ...
> 3) My humble opinion to avoid A4 till Maribor is to take right near Tržec from main road 9, continue north via Zagrebačka cesta (red line) and turn left on green section that is leading to main road 1. Am I thinking correct?



1) green route is newly opened and available.
2) brown route isn't so good if you are going to Maribor because you end up at Ptuj and you have to take some local roads to continue towards Maribor. But old road to Maribor is full of radar traps so...
3) you are correct.

Yesterday I saw one Croatian driver on A4 who was caught in typical Slovenian mobile radar police trap (it's a shameful trap). If someone is driving very close or just behind you and want to push you so you start to drive faster because of that, don't. It's usually police.


----------



## darko06

> Yesterday I saw one Croatian driver on A4 who was caught in typical Slovenian mobile radar police trap (it's a shameful trap). If someone is driving very close or just behind you and want to push you so you start to drive faster because of that, don't. It's usually police.


Thank you.
Yesterday I drove through A1 & A2 from Koper to Bregana, and I didn't see any (police) car which would behave in a way you mentioned. (There was a police car there on the end of A2 near Novo Mesto. You must obey the slowing speed signalisation on end of the motorway.) However, on A1 from Divača to Ljubljana one must be very cautious when passing Romanian pickups and busses. When the missing part of the A2 near Trebnje will be finished?


----------



## darko06

And one more remark. From just say Raka to Obrežje the snow was beginning to fall, and the road was wet. But there was no slowing speed signalisation because of wet road surface. On contrary, on Croatian A3 there was speed slowing on 100 kmph on the whole motorway from Bregana to Podsused.:bash:

For me, there is very ridicolous that on the first rainfall or snowfall in Croatia they promptly reduce speed to 100 kmph (that means that on Karlovac viaduct the speed limit is even 80 kmph).:nuts:

However, I saw the similar behaviour in Austria, on the A9 from/to Graz to/from Wildon (or Leibnitz.)


----------



## x-type

that is normal because road companies are protecting themselves from guiltiness if accident happens.


----------



## pijanec

They are not reducing speed limits in Slovenia because law say that everyone must drive with an appropriate speed for given weather conditions. They will lower speed limits if there will be something drivers can't notice, like very strong winds.

I also never experienced lower speed limits in Austria because of rain or just snowing (and I am driving there often). But Croatia is overreacting with this special speed limits (sadly, in general their speed limits are typically those seen on Balkans, like ultra low that even if you try you can't obey them) and they don't remove them even when everything is already clear.



darko06 said:


> (There was a police car there on the end of A2 near Novo Mesto. You must obey the slowing speed signalisation on end of the motorway.) When the missing part of the A2 near Trebnje will be finished?


Yeah, Slovenian police is always at the end of the motorways. About A2: they will finish it before summer season.


----------



## keber

x-type said:


> what was that all actually about? one truck stopped, the other one crashed into it, but it seems that it was damaged allready soner. what happened there?


Truck didn't had appropriate safety distance between themselves (normal practice among most truck drivers here). First truck malfunctioned and had to stop, then others crashed into. Second one caught fire in a moment.


----------



## pijanec

^^Short safety distance is a nice way to save on gas.


----------



## prasak

I don't understand the driver in the 3. truck (behind the burning one). He remained sitting in his vehicle and watching fire in front of him. He could have tried to go 1 or 2 meters back (and signal that to the driver behind) or simply run away as fast as he could.


----------



## mirza-sm

keber said:


> In direction of Ljubljana. Most necessary repairs were done, but some will have to be done in spring because of temperatures.
> Some pictures of damaged tunnel equipement:
> Former traffic light:


For a moment there I thought it was sort of an alien life form :uh:


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## x-type

prasak said:


> I don't understand the driver in the 3. truck (behind the burning one). He remained sitting in his vehicle and watching fire in front of him. He could have tried to go 1 or 2 meters back (and signal that to the driver behind) or simply run away as fast as he could.


yeah, that's so weird. usually truck drivers are very cooperative and gladly help each other in trouble.


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## Radish2

Hav eyou forgotten me or what? I am making comments about the motorways and the mountains all the time and noone is saying anything.


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## rarse

What sections are supposed to be opened in 2010 and which month?


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## Satan Of Panonia

pijanec said:


> 1) green route is newly opened and available.
> 2) brown route isn't so good if you are going to Maribor because you end up at Ptuj and you have to take some local roads to continue towards Maribor. But old road to Maribor is full of radar traps so...
> 3) you are correct.
> 
> Yesterday I saw one Croatian driver on A4 who was caught in typical Slovenian mobile radar police trap (it's a shameful trap). If someone is driving very close or just behind you and want to push you so you start to drive faster because of that, don't. It's usually police.


It's a form of nationalism in Slovenia.The discrimination of all the ex-Yugoslav peoples(currently Croats) is an issue in Slovenia.

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/topic,463af2212,488edf9d2,49749caf29,0.html


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## keber

rarse said:


> What sections are supposed to be opened in 2010 and which month?


A2 Pluska-Hrastje 14 km long (on Ljubljana-Zagreb motorway) in June 2010.

That is all for this year openings.


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## rarse

TY Keber.


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## Radish2

So there will be motorway from Austrian border til Croatian border this year? Really good news.


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## hofburg

*some pics from my trip nova gorica - maribor*

I took some pics from H4 and A1 towards Maribor. Weather wasn't very good.










Vipava valley near Selo










change from Highway to expressway










going up to Razdrto (from ~100m to ~600m altitude)
































































interchange with A1 coming from Koper














































Ljubljana not far away










snow is almost gone here



















Postojna karst? valley along the route










exit Postojna and Reka (HR)



















the highest point (612m), between Adriatic and Danube




























going down to Innercarniola valley














































Lom rest arena










Logatec exit



















railway bridge










going down to Ljubljana





































entering Ljubljana ring




























ljubljana bypass south



















interchange for Novo mesto, Zagreb (HR)





































...


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## hofburg

Ljubljana bypass, east




























railway bridge, expressway Ljubljana North coming




























still around Ljubljana



















Maribor 116 km



















typical village here










going to Trojane pass (tunnel)
































































first tunnel



















second one, I guess 




























already going down from 500m altitude




























near Celje




























getting dark




























already on Maribor side (Dravsko polje)



















after 2 hours of driving 24 km to Maribor



















Maribor interchange - directions: Ptuj (Zagreb, HR), old 4 lane expressway trough Maribor, Graz, A (Budapest, H) and Ljubljana of corse
We are going for Maribor centre



















Maribo Tezno exit



















Tezno district










taking the blue one 










in the centre, couldn't make it any better


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## Vallex

Went to Maribor on July. Does somebody know when the construction will finished near the Maribor Aerodom?


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## hofburg

if you mean maribor eastern bypass, it is already finished for months, it's google maps who is not up-to-date.


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## x-type

we didn't have such a nice report for a long time at motorways section!


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## hofburg

thanks:cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

x-type said:


> we didn't have such a nice report for a long time at motorways section!


Verso has disappeared off the face of the Highways & Autobahns planet.


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## RipleyLV

ChrisZwolle said:


> Verso has disappeared off the face of the Highways & Autobahns planet.


Why?


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## Timon91

Nobody knows...


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## Palance

The last picture in Maribor: A bit pity that "Avstrija" is put there, and not the "A"-oval or simply "Graz". (even more because Austria can be reached via Dravograd as well).


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## hofburg

well, the sign is a bit old, on the green ones is mostly Graz as you can see, moreover, there is only one blue road to Austria.
although on the other side is the same thing:



ChrisZwolle said:


> 66.
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> 67.


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## keber

(it will be veeery long page, but I cannot help ...)

Long awaited tunnel Markovec, on H6 expressway between Koper and Izola, boring of the tunnel tubes is commencing.


balko said:


> frišne slike
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## Marek.kvackaj

looks like for such small country there is big traffic its just domestic or i international users cars and truck use it?


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## keber

Mostly domestic, but foreign transit has a significant share, especially trucks.


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## keber

Abandoned H4 expressway, closed already for third consequent day because of very strong wind (bora) and snow, blowing up to 200 km/h.









Also short part of A1 towards Koper is closed today because of strong wind and other parts have very slow traffic. Winter is currently in full power.


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## keber

A very interesting video from employees of DARS motorway company, showing H4 and A1 on the day of 200+ km/h bora wind. They took maintenance car, reinforced with 400 kg of additional weight to take measurements and assess the damage done by the powerful wind.


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## hofburg

^^ looks like the day after tomorrow!!


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## Qwert

I didn't know Slovenia is in hurricane zone. How often Bora appears?


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## keber

Qwert said:


> I didn't know Slovenia is in hurricane zone. How often Bora appears?


Every year about 50 times, mostly in winter. However this was the most powerful in last ~5 years.


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## ChrisZwolle

Bora is not a hurricane, because it's not cyclonic. It is caused by temperature differences due to high pressure areas on the cold mainland and low pressure areas above the warmer Adriatic sea. It does reach hurricane-force winds though. As far as I know, it's mostly gusting, there are no long periods of sustained winds of 220 km/h.


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## x-type

that's right, Chris. those 200+ km/h stories are only about wind strokes, it doesn't have that speed constantly. 
there are 2 main times in years when it happens - end and the beginning of winter. of course, it can appear also in other periods (in the middle of summer), but those 2 are constatntly. at the beginning of winter it appears because continental part gets cold sooner than coast, pressure difference happens and air tumbles from higher parts (mountains) to lower (coast).
why did it happen these days? because we had short warm period 2 weeks ago, and then came the snow from Spain, and after it again came warmer weather. continent didn't have enough time to warm as fast as coast. so bura appeared.


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## Qwert

ChrisZwolle said:


> Bora is not a hurricane, because it's not cyclonic. It is caused by temperature differences due to high pressure areas on the cold mainland and low pressure areas above the warmer Adriatic sea. It does reach hurricane-force winds though. As far as I know, it's mostly gusting, there are no long periods of sustained winds of 220 km/h.


Well, I obviously know bora isn't a hurricane and Slovenia isn't in hurricane zone.. It just looked like that on the video. Anyway, I'm quite happy I live deep inland in a landlocked country:lol:.


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## keber

*A2 Pluska-Ponikve-Hrastje, 27.03.2010 - construction update:*

It's been four months from last update and because of harsh winter not so much has changed as you would think. There was a lot of snow, the last one three weeks ago up to 40 cm. Now all snow is gone, day temperatures are ranging from 10-20 degrees and works are in full swing. About 50% of alignment is paved with asphalt, about 40% is waiting to be that very soon and about 10 % is less advanced, but for now not to be worry about June 2010 opening, if workers will work as intense as last week.

For the first update of 2010 I took some extra pictures, mostly taken in direction of Zagreb:

1 - Beginning at Pluska









2 - Exit Trebnje-west (north part)









3 - Exit Trebnje-west (south part)









4 - Continuing toward tunnel Leščevje, pavement is asphalted but very dirty









5 - after the tunnel asphalt is still not present









6 - 









7 - getting above Trebnje town









8 - pictured from pedestrian overpass towards Ljubljana









9 - pedestrian overpass, still not finished.









10 - 









11 - view towards Zagreb









12 - from the highest point of new motorway above valley there is a nice view of surrounding area. 









13 - after that there is still no asphalt until viaduct Ponikve









14 - on the right there will be service station, however not right after motorway opening. If travelling in direction of Zagreb, temporary there will be no service station on motorway for almost 70 km.


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## keber

continuing:
15 - viaduct Ponikve, almost finished









16 - between both halves of viaduct









17 - those metallic things on lower right are expansion joints (dilatations), prepared for installation









18 - the least advanced part on transport company former land, which they didn't want to sell, taken from exit Trebnje-east overpass









19 - same point, toward Zagreb, again asphalted pavement









20 - climbing onto another hill









21 - machine in the middle of both halves of motorway is for montage of guard rail.









22 - view from the top towards west









23 - on the top of the hill there is still a lot to do









24 - viaduct Dole









25 - 









26 - here there is still some mining to do, although it is not direct on alignment of motorway









27 - underpass for exit Mirna Peč









28 - Exit Mirna Peč, towards Ljubljana









29 - same point, looking towards Zagreb, remaining part until end of new alignment is already asphalted in full length









30 - also a nice view









31 - End of alignment


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## ChrisZwolle

Thanks for the update


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## RipleyLV

Thanks for another bunch of photos.


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## hofburg

:cheers: I like Lower carniola very much. it seems that highway will go well with landscape.


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## x-type

is it going to be opened till 2011?


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## keber

:yes:


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## darko06

It is interesting, that on parts of Ljubljana-Zagreb route of A2 which were opened in former Yugoslavia (Šmarje Sap-Višnja gora), there is Zagreb written as end destination on tables before the interchange and distance tables after it (interchanges Šmarje-Sap, Grosuplje-motel and Višnja gora). After that, there is always Novo mesto/Krško/Brežice respectively.
By the way, the interchange Šmarje-Sap did not exist initially on the H1. It was added at the beginning of the seventies. And another curiosity: the Naklo-Brezno part of H1 was the first fully build two-laned undivided expressway with hard shoulders on each side in the former Yugoslavia (of course the Ljubno tunnel and Ljubno/Peračica viaducts were built without it).


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## darko06

At the beginning of the seventies, the whole H1 between Ljubljana and Zagreb (the beginning of the H1 was after Višnjica and the end of undivided expressway was in Jankomir) was still paved in reinforced concrete plates (as initially built), except the small part between Kronovo and Otočec and the sizeable Croatian part (Samobor-Jankomir) which were repaved with asphalt at this time.


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## darko06

The interchanges of H1:
Višnjica (T-crossing, not interchange)
Grosuplje
Višnja Gora
Ivančna gorica (with the Istrabenz petrol station integrated in the interchange)
Bič (Litija)
Trebnje
Karteljevo
Novo mesto
Otočec
Dobruška vas
Smednik
Krško
Brežice
Jesenice
Bregana
Samobor
Rakitje
Jankomir (T-crossing, not interchange).


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## darko06

In those times I remembered every curve and plain part of it, because it was necessary for overpassing. And in 1987, shortly before the beginning of building the Šmarje-Sap Višnja gora A2 part, I made a record: from Višnjica to Podsused in 1 hour (in those times at Obrežje was no border, and if you were lucky enough to travel without overpassing the slow FAP or TAM trucks at the hilly parts, especially between Grosuplje and Višnja gora, it was reachable at speed of 125-130 kmh).


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## darko06

And the hilly part between Višnja gora and Grosuplje was paved with small granite cubes, just like in interwar Germany.


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## hofburg

^^ seems that you really liked the old expressway. 

today's news: speeding of the minister of the interior car (Audi A8) caught on camera. 
http://tvslo.si/predvajaj/policijski-lov-za-kresalovo/ava2.64931996/

route: A1/A3 razdrto - sezana.


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## darko06

Yes, I did, because in those days it (Škofljica-Jankomir & Naklo-Brezno) was the only road in former state without crossings (and it means without pedestrians, tractors and so on). And in the Shell road atlas for 1972/73 it was designated as full motorway, and I was proud of it.
And just one trivia: the famous H-8 movie about the bus accident at highway Zagreb-Beograd in the fifties was actually taken at the old expressway, somewhere between Brežice and Krško (at the old Gorenje Skopice-Vihre overpass, which also don't exist anymore).


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## keber

darko06 said:


> And just one trivia: the famous H-8 movie about the bus accident at highway Zagreb-Beograd in the fifties was actually taken at the old expressway,


Famous? Never heard of, but I would like to see it. Available anywhere?


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## TheFlyPL

Hi everybody. Is 25 euro vignette the cheapest one still? I have to go throu Slovenia, but only a few km by highway and taht is very annoying to pay for it 25 euro. 

I drove throu some kind of secondary road in mountains to avoid paying fee last year. It was very beautiful but i lost a few hours.


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## darko06

> Available anywhere?


I'm not sure if it's available on DVD in Croatia.


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## hofburg

A1 near koper.


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## seem

^^ That means I have been there a few times in my life. 

I am aslways traveling in the middle of the night. For example, I am leaving Bratislava at 11:00 PM and at a morning about 6/7 AM I am sleeping on some carpark on the Istrian coast. 

I usualy have some brakes..


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## hofburg

ja, I like night driving too. but as I driver I never drove for the whole night.


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## edis_mumin

hofburg said:


> ja, I like night driving too. but as I driver I never drove for the whole night.


I don't like night driving. I want to see all while traveling. I passed complete Slovenia 10 days ago by night, and i didn't saw anything. That is so sad hno:...


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## arhi

There are two links about Maribor's eastern highway and turning Slivnica-Draženci. Theards are already closed. There are many photos through the building. Koments are in Slovenian language.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=852796
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=576629

Some photos were already taken from those theards and posted here in this theard.


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## and802

*toll free transit (Graz - Zagreb)*

good day collegues,

my plan is to go from Graz (A) to Zagreb (HR)
just to avoid vignette fee I am planning to use alternative roads (on Slovenian part of the route). 

my questions are:

is it possible ?
if so, which route ?


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## ChrisZwolle

I believe the usual route is;

* Highway 437 from the Austrian border to Pesnica
* Highway H2 through Maribor
* Highway 1 from Maribor to Ptuj
* Highway 2 through Ptuj
* Highway 9 from Ptuj to the Croatian border

However, since both the Maribor bypass and the A4 are opened to traffic, I'd rather pay the vignette, you can drive through Slovenia in maybe 40 minutes. It's an expensive 40 minutes, but better than taking country roads. Back in the days where only the Sentilj - Maribor section was a motorway, it was profitable to take back-roads all the way, but nowadays... I don't know.


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## darko06

*Avoiding the Slovenian vignette*



ChrisZwolle said:


> I believe the usual route is;
> * Highway H2 through Maribor


This statement is erratic.
Highway H2 through Maribor is assigned as "Hitra cesta", and it is vignette obligatory as such.

If you arrive from Graz, there will be a minor problem.
To enter the city from north, when you are at the Pesnica roundabout, you have to turn to the H2 and then, after some 100 or 200 meters, leave the H2 on the first exit, to proceed to the centre. As far as I know, Slovenian vignette patrols usually don't check this short part of the H2. And if you have Austrian vignette, don't forget to leave the Phyrnautobahn BEFORE the border, because Slovenians occasionally check the vignette immediately after the border.

However, I agree with Chris and warmly recommend the Slovenian vignette.
I already have both Austrian and Slovenian yearly vignette, and now the travel time from Zagreb (City Center West) to Graz (Shopping centre Seiersberg) is about 1h45mns, including the Cro/Slo border.


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## and802

many thanks for info.

what is the time saving profit ? I mean toll free route against vignette route (Solvanian part). is it like 20 minutes or 2hours ...


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## phiberoptik

and802 said:


> many thanks for info.
> 
> what is the time saving profit ? I mean toll free route against vignette route (Solvanian part). is it like 20 minutes or 2hours ...


If you know alternative route, it is like max 20minutes more. But if you don't ...


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## and802

phiberoptik said:


> If you know alternative route, it is like max 20minutes more. But if you don't ...


no, I do not. what is the alternative route ? I can see it on any map, but looks like you have a joker in your sleeve


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## x-type

many people use next solution to bypass Maribor: take exit #222 Vogau, then Sankt Veit am Vogau - Rabenhof - Eichfeld - Murreck - Trate - Lenart - Trnovska Vas - Ptuj.

btw, Slovenian subforum is a wrong place to ask that  try at Croatian 

here is the best link with photos and maps (although i think one map is outdated): http://bezvinjete.blogspot.com


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## seem

Hi guys, I am just wondering if A2 is already completed.. 

_I have never been driving on A2 because if I am going to Istrija I am using - Austrian A2 and Slovenian A1.

if I am going southern - Hungarian M7 and Croatian A4, A7_


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## x-type

seem said:


> Hi guys, I am just wondering if A2 is already completed..


of course - not


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## seem

^^ Why of course not? It`s just 15 km to complete a motorway and I am expected there are not so hard conditions (relief) to build up this section. Is there any political reason?


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## x-type

seem said:


> ^^ Why of course not? It`s just 15 km to complete a motorway and I am expected there are not so hard conditions (relief) to build up this section. Is there any political reason?


because it lasts for ages. but i passed there 2 weeks ago and works seem to be going on, so i expect soon opening (this year?)


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## keber

Next month. In the evening I'll post latest photo-report of the whole section.


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## keber

*A2 Pluska - Hrastje, between Ljubljana and Zagreb, construction update - 23. 5. 2010*:

Almost everything is now asphalted, so opening of this motorway in the end of June should not be quiestion. Two of three exits wont be finished yet at that time as there also won't be possible to refill your gas tank because rest place won't be finished.(almost 70 km long "hole" between Ljubljana and Otočec)

1 - Beginning of section at Pluska, traffic from existing motorway hoing toward old expressway is already redirected through new junction Trebnje-west (looking toward Ljubljana)









2 - toward Zagreb









3 - closing to tunnel Leščevje (380 m)









4 - mounting equipment in tunnel is not proceeding at high speed









5 - on other site of the tunnel









6 - a machine for installing guard rail









7 - here it is practically finished









8 - overpass for pedestrians, still missing a fence









9 - installing prefabricated antinoise barriers, on the left there are already planted new plants









10 - from the same point toward Ljubljana









11 - continuing over fresh laid asphalt









12 - plateau of new rest place, which won't be yet opened in next months









13 - viaduct Ponikve, installing antinoise barriers and hydroisolation.









14 - old vs. new









15 - from the side









16 - a forest of pillars









17 - asphalt also on the other side of the viaduct


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## keber

18 - only existing non asphalted pavement, but not for long









19 - exit Trebnje-east









20 - from other side









21 - ascending toward Novo mesto









22 - toward Ljubljana









23 - on top of the hill









24 - hydroisolation is being installed on other viaduct too









25 - descent before Mirna Peč exit, on right a plateau for new industrial zone. In front you can see instalment for a montage passage between two halves of the motorway









26 - exit Mirna Peč









27 - further from exit it is practically finished, first signs are mounted too









28 - into the next valley









29 - old overpass is counting its last days, however there is still traffic flowing under it.









30 - in about last half of km motorway is finished, even traffic is already being rerouted onto new motorway









31 - horizontal signalisation









32 - end of section at Hrastje









33 - bonus - can you see anything weird on the picture?


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Thanks for the report

Last picture; a barrier to protect what?


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## mmmartin

x-type said:


> i must admit that till now i have never heard of Bistra :lol:


It means clear. Does it not have the same meaning in Croatian?


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## x-type

mmmartin said:


> It means clear. Does it not have the same meaning in Croatian?


yes. we also have villages called Bistra in Croatia. but i have never heard nor noticed that Bistra near Ljubljana


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## mmmartin

Bistra is very well known. There is a technical museum in Bistra with a large collection of cars, used by Josip Broz Tito.


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## Verso

mmmartin said:


> That plate dates back to Yugoslavian times. They should add the HR sign.


And Novo mesto (and possibly also Ivančna Gorica). Nice pictures, btw.


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## darko06

Taken with iPhone 3G.

Does someone remember the old great white interchange tables made of fiber, inscribed with elegant black font in capitals? I think those plates were put at the end of sixties or beginning of seventies, and took away at the end of eighties.


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## phiberoptik

darko06 said:


> Taken with iPhone 3G.
> 
> Does someone remember the old great white interchange tables made of fiber, inscribed with elegant black font in capitals? I think those plates were put at the end of sixties or beginning of seventies, and took away at the end of eighties.


Like this one_


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## mmmartin

I remember. You could really see the fibers from the bask side. A few (smaller) examples could still be found in some remote villages (and in Maribor :lol, but probably really only a few.


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## pijanec

x-type said:


> and some photos of A2. these 2 tunnels are dangerous - there are probably speed cameras in them because everybody decrease their speed intensively


There are no speed cameras inside Slovenian tunnels. There is a fixed speed camera before you enter 2nd tunnel in a 130 km/h zone.


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## darko06

pijanec, does it exist the tolerance of 10% speeding on Slovenian motorways?


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## pijanec

^^No. We have absolute values.

5 km/h for speed up to 100 km/h
7 km/h for speed from 100 km/h to inclusive 200 km/h
11 km/h over the speed of 200 km/h.

If they are measuring you on a curve tolerance is 11%.


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## x-type

these are low tolerances because speedometer lies more than this


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## ChrisZwolle

Yeah

160 km/h on your speedometer is like 151 - 152 in real kms. And they subtract the correction from that, so you'll get a fine for 145 km/h too fast.


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## pijanec

This doesn't depend on speedometer but on measuring devices. And we all know that measuring devices have lesser error than those limits in law.


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## x-type

pijanec said:


> This doesn't depend on speedometer but on measuring devices. And we all know that measuring devices have lesser error than those limits in law.


and what is with deflection on speedometres?


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## pijanec

If your speedometer is showing 160 and measuring devices put out a speed of 150, then 150 is your right speed. Deflection of speedometers have zero influence on anything regading laws.


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## x-type

you know that i'm telling you that if limit is 100 that you can drive some 105-110 according to your speedometer and with added some tollerance for measuring devices. i don't know why wouldn't we consider about speedometer deflection, too :?


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## pijanec

Yes, you are right. Sorry, I didn't clearly understand what you meant at first.


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## keber

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yeah
> 
> 160 km/h on your speedometer is like 151 - 152 in real kms. And they subtract the correction from that, so you'll get a fine for 145 km/h too fast.


Speedometer in my car is correct to about 1 km/h. Confirmed with GPS device, time measurement with km sings and at the end with the police radar (and a 50€ fine because I thought, that speedometer lies as it did on my previous car).


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## keber

*A2 Pluska-Hrastje - construction update 20.6.2010*

Opening on 30.6.2010 at 11:00


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## ChrisZwolle

Gotta love the sign for Bič. (pronounced like "Bitch")


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## hofburg

hehe. nothing weird, if in august we have to accept all dumbasses from germany, austria, france, czech republic, oh wait... netherlands. 

(a joke)


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## ChrisZwolle

Of course you have to accept us dumbasses, because we are paying good money for it!


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## hofburg

good money?!  so you think, all tourists who enter karavanke/sentilj, and exit obrezje/gruskovje; that's good money? :lol:


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## Surel

hofburg said:


> hehe. nothing weird, if in august we have to accept all dumbasses from germany, austria, france, czech republic, oh wait... netherlands.
> 
> (a joke)


Don't worry. Most of us (them) are just passing further south .


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## smokiboy

Is this section considered part of the old "Brotherhood & Unity" highway?


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## hofburg

Surel said:


> Don't worry. Most of us (them) are just passing further south .


my point exactly


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## hofburg

smokiboy said:


> Is this section considered part of the old "Brotherhood & Unity" highway?


what section? pluska - hrastje yes, peracica podtabor no.

edit: that's not true. 

edit2: apparently I am right. B&U highway turned at Podtabor to Ljubelj pass.


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## x-type

hofburg said:


> what section? pluska - hrastje yes, peracica podtabor no.


it is (was). Bratstvo & Jedinstvo ahd beginning at Karavanke tunnel (actually, road no 1 in Yugoslavia had beginning even at that border crossing near Kranjska Gora).


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## smokiboy

I was think about the section that just opened, near Trebnje. Thanks.


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## hofburg

x-type said:


> it is (was). Bratstvo & Jedinstvo ahd beginning at Karavanke tunnel (actually, road no 1 in Yugoslavia had beginning even at that border crossing near Kranjska Gora).


didn't know that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brotherhood_and_Unity_Highway

I think Keber would know where exactly was that road from ljubljana to naklo in 50s - 70s. ?? because I have no idea.


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## darko06

The road from Ljubljana to Naklo was part of improving the trans-yugoslav highway in the first Yugoslavia (Kingdom of Yugoslavia) somewhere in the nineteenthirties (before the outbreak of the WW2). It was a concrete-pavement road, which started on the end of Tržaška cesta (road to Tržič) in Ljubljana, with the concrete Kokra bridge in Kranj, and ended after Naklo, just on the beginning the full half-motorway Naklo-Kropa-Brezje (1+1 with hard shoulders). Another part of that road was the old road from Brezje (just at the end of beforementioned half-motorway) to the city of Bled (the old Yugoslav riviera, with a royal villa projected by famous architect Plečnik), I think also a concrete-pavement road.

With the outbreak of WW2, Hitler has planned an extension of than Tauern-Reichsautobahn, from Villach via Klagenfurt, through the Ljubelj/Loibl pass to Ljubljana, but executed was only the tunnel, and perhaps the pavements on Slovenian side (Remember, the road from Kropa via Tržič to Ljubelj is actually a some kind of 1+1 expressway without the hard shoulders, and was in the second Yugoslavia designated as such till the seventies: Yugoslav road no.1 (Brotherhood and Unity "Motorway/Autoput"), where the old road through Jesenice to Korenpass was designated as Yugoslav road no.1.1. The road from Loibltunnel to Klagenfurt on the Austrian side is a steepy highway.).

En-passant: such concrete-pavement roads from the time just before the outbreak of the WW2 exist in the vicinity of Zagreb: from Črnomerec through Jankomir-Sv.Nedelja-Samobor to Bregana (Slovenian border) and from Dubrava through Sesvete to Dugo Selo (in direction Belgrade).

The first section of the Brotherhood and Unity "Motorway/Autoput", from Zagreb to Belgrade, which has been built from 1945-1949, has begun near Podsused (to has being connected to the concrete-road to Bregana) and, as today Ljubljanska-Zagrebačka-Slavonska avenija, has overpassed the than city of Zagreb, and as the today northern track of A3 has gone in direction Belgrade.

When the Yugoslav communist party decided in the middle fifties that an extension of B&U Mot./Ap. to the city of Ljubljana should have being built, they simply connected it to the old Zg/Bg section near Jankomir (today KingCross exit on the Ljubljanska avenija expw.) and connected in Škofljica, simply because the asphalt/or concrete road from Ljubljana to Škofljica existed from the pre WW2 period (that section of B&U Mot./Ap. was finished in 1958).
Beacause the terrain in south of Ljubljana is swampy, and in the north of it is hilly, and the money was needed for the Serbian part of B&U Mot./Ap. (Belgrade-Niš-Skopje-Gevgelija), they decided not to built a Ljubljana overpass, but simply a tunnel under the Old city. So the traffic in Ljubljana was congested even in the seventies.

Instead of Ljubljana overpass, in the early sixties they have built beforementioned section Naklo-Kropa-Brezno, and Kropa-Ljubelj, as Slovenian part of B&U Mot./Ap. As a boy I remembered that a modern road from Radovljica to Jesenice (than NOT a B&U Mot./Ap.), with railway underpass, was finished somewhere in 1969 or 1970.


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## darko06

Summary:
Before the WW2:
Streets of Ljubljana
Ljubljana-Škofljica (concrete or asphalt?)
Ljubljana-Medvode-Kranj-Naklo (concrete)
Brezje (or Brezno?)-Radovljica-Bled (concrete/granite blocks?)
In Croatia: Črnomerec-Podsused-Samobor-Bregana (granite blocks/concrete)
After the WW2:
Brotherhood & Unity "Motorway/Autoput":
Podsused-Jankomir-Novska-Sl.Brod-Zemun (concrete/granite blocks) finished 1949
Jankomir-Škofljica (concrete/granite blocks, under/overpasses, exits, first half-motorway in the communist Yugoslavia) finished 1958
Naklo-Kropa (concrete/granite blocks, under/overpasses, exits, first full half-motorway with hard shoulders in the communist Yugoslavia) finished in the early sixties
Kropa-Brezje (asphalt, under/overpasses, exits, first full half-motorway with asphalt pavement and hard shoulders in the communist Yugoslavia) finished in the early sixties - bridges and tunnel without hard shoulders (EXACTLY WHERE TODAY IS STILL WORKING)
Kropa-Tržič-Ljubelj tunnel (asphalt, under/overpasses and exits-only section Kropa-Tržič) finished presumably in the early sixties


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## darko06

The old half motorway (or expressway) from Jankomir to Škofljica is today the southern lane of the:
Croatian A3 from interchange Jankomir to Obrežje;
Slovenian A2 from Obrežje to Kronovo, and again from the middle tunnel between Pluska and Bič to Šmarje-Sap (actually, the Šmarje-Sap exit in Ljubljana direction goes to the old expressway to Škofljica).

The x-tipe is wrong. B&U Mot./Ap. had begun at the Ljubelj/Loibl tunnel.


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## darko06

About the Brotherhood&Unity "Motorway/Autoput" (in Slovenian: Avtoput bratstva in enotnosti): it doesn't have overpasses to the cities of Ljubljana, Niš and Skopje. In Belgrade they build a full motorway secton from the Surčin/Belgrade airport exit through the capital to the Bubanj potok (This it today the most congested road in Serbia). First city in former Yugoslavia with a beltway was Zagreb (so called Zagrebačka obilaznica, from int. Jankomir to int. Ivanja Rijeka), finished in 1981.


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## Mateusz

Darko, can you write all stuff in one post ?


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## darko06

I'll try in the future. I have taken all this from my head, and in such circumstances more than one post is inevitable.


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## Verso

Interestingly, the Ljubljana-Zagreb motorway was completed exactly 4 years after completion of the Zagreb-Belgrade motorway. They were both completed on 30th June.

http://translate.google.com/transla...--lipovac-autoceste-a3-16485.aspx&sl=hr&tl=en (lipanj = June)


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## ChrisZwolle

> (Remember, the road from Kropa via Tržič to Ljubelj is actually a some kind of 1+1 expressway without the hard shoulders, and was in the second Yugoslavia designated as such till the seventies: Yugoslav road no.1 (Brotherhood and Unity "Motorway/Autoput")


Yeah, I remember the Slovenian side of the Ljublej is far better than the Austrian side, which is narrow with sharp turns. You can really maintain some speed in Slovenia.


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## x-type

darko06 said:


> En-passant: such concrete-pavement roads from the time just before the outbreak of the WW2 exist in the vicinity of Zagreb: from Črnomerec through Jankomir-Sv.Nedelja-Samobor to Bregana (Slovenian border) and from Dubrava through Sesvete to Dugo Selo (in direction Belgrade).


not anymore. Sveta Nedelja - Samobor is completely repaved, just as Zagrebačka and Bjelovarska street in Sesvete. 
however, i am not sure for Sesvetski Kraljevec - Dugo Selo (just between exit fro A4 and entrance to Dugo Selo), this could possibly still be made in concrete. i am talking about this section od D41. i passed ther one month ago, but i really don't remember it.


darko06 said:


> The x-tipe is wrong. B&U Mot./Ap. had begun at the Ljubelj/Loibl tunnel.


i really didn't know that. i thought that Bratstvo & Jedinstvo coincided with road 1.


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## hofburg

thank you very much darko06 for that great explanation!
a few things still aren't clear in my head:



darko06 said:


> It was a concrete-pavement road, which started on the end of Tržaška cesta (road to Tržič)


trzaska cesta - road to trieste.



darko06 said:


> Beacause the terrain in south of Ljubljana is swampy, and in the north of it is hilly, and the money was needed for the Serbian part of B&U Mot./Ap. (Belgrade-Niš-Skopje-Gevgelija), they decided not to built a Ljubljana overpass, but simply a tunnel under the Old city. So the traffic in Ljubljana was congested even in the seventies.


a tunnel?? they didn't built one or is that one under the castle?



darko06 said:


> Instead of Ljubljana overpass, in the early sixties they have built beforementioned section Naklo-Kropa-Brezno, and Kropa-Ljubelj, as Slovenian part of B&U Mot./Ap. As a boy I remembered that a modern road from Radovljica to Jesenice (than NOT a B&U Mot./Ap.), with railway underpass, was finished somewhere in 1969 or 1970.


with Kropa - you mean Podbrezje or today's interchange A2/Trzic-Ljubelj? because Kropa is really far away and out of the route.



darko06 said:


> About the Brotherhood&Unity "Motorway/Autoput" (in Slovenian: Avtoput bratstva in enotnosti).


(avto)CESTA bratstva in enotnosti. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brotherhood_and_Unity_Highway

So, wikipedia is wrong twice: 
_"The Brotherhood and Unity Highway (...) (was) stretched over 1,180 km (733 mi) across former Yugoslavia, from the Austrian border near Kranjska Gora in the northwest via Ljubljana, Zagreb, Belgrade and Skopje to Gevgelija on the Greek border in the southeast."_

from Ljubelj pass via Ljubljana...

_"The situation slightly improved after some parts were brought up to modern motorway standards (two lanes for each direction plus an emergency lane) on sections Kranj-Ljubljana (20 km)..."_

Kranj Ljubljana motorway has a completely new route bypassing Medvode (where was the old B&U highway) via Vodice, and has nothing to do with old section. near Ljubno, there both routes are (almost) identical.


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## treichard

Are any detailed maps of the new A2 section near Trebnje available online?


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## hofburg

pretty detailed. www.promet.si


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## keber

More direct link:
http://www.promet.si/portal/map/portal.aspx?lng=EN

(around Trebnje they are currently ahead of time)


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## smokiboy

With the completion of the Ljubljana - Zagreb motorway it seems that Slovenia has "almost" finished it's entire motorway network. What is left; small section from Maribor towards Zagreb & Ljubljana towards Rijeka, is that correct?


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## ChrisZwolle

In my opinion, there are still four missing links

* the small gap near Trzic (U/C)
* Ptuj - Croatian border
* Postojna - Croatian border
* Koper - Croatian border

Other than that, the Slovenian motorway network is pretty adequate, although it wouldn't be a bad idea to widen some sections of the Ljubljana ring road to 2x3 lanes.


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## x-type

what do you think about wide northern Ljubljana bypass (for instance Krtina - Vodice)? would it be necessary to build?


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## ChrisZwolle

I see what you mean, but I think most traffic on A1 and A2 have a destination or origin in Ljubljana. I think such a bypass would be nice for through traffic, but it won't relieve H3 of much traffic. 

I think a high-standard 2+1 grade separated road can do the job there.


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## hofburg

ChrisZwolle said:


> In my opinion, there are still four missing links
> 
> * the small gap near Trzic (U/C)
> * Ptuj - Croatian border
> * Postojna - Croatian border
> * Koper - Croatian border
> 
> Other than that, the Slovenian motorway network is pretty adequate, although it wouldn't be a bad idea to widen some sections of the Ljubljana ring road to 2x3 lanes.


actually, Slovenia finishes its motorway network (or motorway cross) in 2013 with Koper - Lucija expressway. Ptuj, Postojna, Koper - Croatian border - that's all part of the additional highway programme, as well as the 3rd development axis (Celje - Velenje - Austrian border).

http://www.dars.si/Dokumenti/2_AC_HC_v_gradnji_in_obstojece/LPROAC 2010.pdf


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## Radish2

So X-type, all your theroies of Slovenia wanting to hinder Croatia having a good economy are not true, are they?


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## keber

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think a high-standard 2+1 grade separated road can do the job there.


Upgraded main road is planned there with bypasses (construction of first such bypass, of Mengeš should commence this year), sadly no grade separation is planned. Still it will quite improve traffic conditions in that region. 2+2 motorway or expressway here is not needed, however.

2x3 expansion of Ljubljana bypass and some nearby connecting motorways is planned for next decade or two, but it will be very costly, especially on northern and eastern part.


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## x-type

Radish2 said:


> So X-type, all your theroies of Slovenia wanting to hinder Croatia having a good economy are not true, are they?


you mean because of opening new stretch which had to be opened 8 years ago? well, hopefully HR will finally soon enter to that lousy organization called EU and will pull some money from funds to invest into finnishing some slovenian motorways. i know it isn't that simple, but that's the most possible scenario.


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## Gyorgy

x-type said:


> you mean because of opening new stretch which had to be opened 8 years ago? well, hopefully HR will finally soon enter to that lousy organization called EU and will pull some money from funds to invest into finnishing some slovenian motorways. i know it isn't that simple, but that's the most possible scenario.


Oh, do you know when was the first deadline to finish the entire motorway cross?


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## x-type

Gyorgy said:


> Oh, do you know when was the first deadline to finish the entire motorway cross?


was there any? they never talked about deadlines. i only know that A2 motorway was (is) being built at snail's speed.


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## hofburg

15 years ago they talked about year 2004 as deadline. 
but it's true that A1 was a priority for slovenia (finished 2005, Maribor bypass in 2009), for two reasons I think, 
1. A1 is more important for economy and serves the main cities
2. on the route of A2 there was already a good road before.


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## mmmartin

ChrisZwolle said:


> In my opinion, there are still four missing links
> 
> * the small gap near Trzic (U/C)
> * Ptuj - Croatian border
> * Postojna - Croatian border
> * Koper - Croatian border


One half of the smaller gap by Tržič was actually opened in 2007, now they are rebuilding the other half with more the 40 years old viaducts (they were demolished and will be completely new) and they are also widening the old tunnel, so it will have a hard shoulder, like the new one, opened in 2007.

Ptuj-Croatian border will be completed in 2013 and I think we needed this road like already in Yugoslav times.

Postojna-Croatian border: the average day traffic is, I think, around 6,000 vehicules (its peek in the summer weekends is around 20,000) so I think we need a public debate in Slovenia how to finance that road. I still think the new road is needed there due to the curvy present road. 

Koper-Croatian border: in that direction they are building a coastal expressway, which will end in Lucija, some 5 km from Croatian border at border crossing Sečovlje. There is a plan for another expressway towards border crossing Dragonja, which will link Koper to the Istrian Y expressway in Croatia. There are no time schedules for that section, correct me if I'm wrong.


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## mmmartin

x-type said:


> i only know that A2 motorway was (is) being built at snail's speed.


Actually the A2 was built pretty fast from Novo mesto to Croatian border. The terrain there is pretty easy and they mostly used the route of the old Brotherhood and Unity road.

From Novo mesto to Ljubljana the first parts of the full profile motorway were built in the end of the 1980's and in the beggining od the 1990's, still in Yugoslav times. After Slovenia gained independence and started building the motorways again in the mid 1990's this corridor had to wait for the A1, which connects the port of Koper to its markets and the biggest Slovene cities. In the mid 1990's there was also war going on in the Balkans, so the traffic in direction from Ljubljana to Zagreb was not that high as it was in the corridor that is covered by A1. They finished some sections of A2 between Ljubljana and Novo mesto pretty fast, but this last one, that passes Trebnje was pretty problematic. There was an ongoing debate about the route that lasted some 10 years and that is the main reason we had to wait this section for such a long time. Because, believe me, we needed this section badly because of industry in Novo mesto and not just to connect Ljubljana and Zagreb.


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## mmmartin

Radish2 said:


> So X-type, all your theroies of Slovenia wanting to hinder Croatia having a good economy are not true, are they?


I think that Croatian economy needs good policies and ideas and is not so much dependent on Slovenian motorways as it is on its people.


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## Gyorgy

hofburg said:


> 15 years ago they talked about year 2004 as deadline.
> but it's true that A1 was a priority for slovenia (finished 2005, Maribor bypass in 2009), for two reasons I think,
> 1. A1 is more important for economy and serves the main cities
> 2. on the route of A2 there was already a good road before.


It was 1999. Short after Ljubljana ring road was completed. Now when was A1 finished? Last year, so that's 10 years later than in the first plan.


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## ChrisZwolle

mmmartin said:


> Postojna-Croatian border: the average day traffic is, I think, around 6,000 vehicules (its peek in the summer weekends is around 20,000) so I think we need a public debate in Slovenia how to finance that road. I still think the new road is needed there due to the curvy present road.


I reckon this may be the last link in Slovenia to be built. Though, if all must-have projects are completed, there should be some funding left-over for less profitable sections, like this one. 6,000 is not enough to warrant a full motorway, but 20,000 definitely is. Most capacity of the 2x3 lanes in France isn't used for much of the year either, only during the summer.


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## mmmartin

^^

There is one more important expressway that is planned in Slovenia, the so called "third axis" connecting northern and southern Slovenia from around Dravograd via Velenje and Celje towards Novo mesto and Metlika, reaching the Croatian border near Bosiljevo, where there is an interchange for Rijeka and Split. No fixed term plans are made yet, the financing of this road is also a matter of debate.


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## x-type

mmmartin said:


> Ptuj-Croatian border will be completed in 2013 and I think we needed this road like already in Yugoslav times.


uf, this is so optimistic. they should start works tonight to make it in 2 years. i think that we cannot expect it before 2015 whatever would happen


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## Radish2

mmmartin said:


> I think that Croatian economy needs good policies and ideas and is not so much dependent on Slovenian motorways as it is on its people.


yes, but X-type often said, slovenia hinders Croatia having a good economy earlier, I don't know whether he still thinks like that.


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## x-type

Radish2 said:


> yes, but X-type often said, slovenia hinders Croatia having a good economy earlier, I don't know whether he still thinks like that.


i have answered you (it was ironic rhetorical question if you didn't understand)


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## Radish2

Ofcourse I did understand. but you think, only because they are not building the motorways fast, they are against Croatia?


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## mmmartin

*Motorway A2, Novo mesto - Ljubljana (interchange Malence)*, 1. 7. 2010

Karteljevo 









New section Hrastje-Ponikve 









Mirna Peč









Viaduct Dole


















Trebnje-vzhod (east)









Viaduct Ponikve



























Tunnel Leščevje


















Trebnje-zahod (west)









End of new section Ponikve-Pluska :eat:









Medvedjek









Bič









Toll station (for vehicules up from 3,5 t), Dob









Ivančna Gorica









Motorway service area Podsmreka









Višnja Gora









The other half of the motorway is on the other side of the hill 









Grosuplje, both halfs of the motorway together again 









Šmarje-Sap









Exit for Škofljica









Tunnel Mali vrh









Viaduct Reber









Radar at the end of the viaduct


















Tunnel Debeli hrib









Interchange Malence


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## ChrisZwolle

Nice photos!

But a tad too big at 1600 pixels. 1024 would be best imo.


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## x-type

Radish2 said:


> Ofcourse I did understand. but you think, only because they are not building the motorways fast, they are against Croatia?


not basicly. radi, if you don't mind, i would like to talk about motorways here 

this section around Karteljevo is probably the best looking part of A2 at whole motorway, especially that long curve just before ex-end of motorway where left and right direction lanes are not in the ame level


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## eucitizen

Just a curiosity, what will Slovenians do with the old toll stations?Are they going to dismantle them?They are an obstacle slowing down the speed.


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## mmmartin

They will be removed after the implementation of satellite or microwave toll collection system. It is planned for 2012, but we will see. 

Supposably they can't remove the toll stations yet, becase part of them is still used for collecting the toll from trucks and buses.


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## Verso

The Slovenian motorway company DARS is becoming a private company and the owner of Slovenian motorways and expressways, which it will also finance.

http://translate.google.si/translat...vica/article/771/6499/e90d750ca5/&sl=sl&tl=en



Other than that, here are a few photos of a new road (to open in 3 days) bringing the smallest Slovenian municipality Osilnica (southern Slovenia by the Croatian border) closer to Ljubljana for ~30 km. It ascends from about 300 m in Osilnica to almost 1000 m on Goteniška gora. This was by now the fastest connection between Osilnica and Ljubljana. Pictures by umilave1 (I think you can see Croatia on some of them):


umilave1 said:


> Borovec pri Kočevski Reki-Osilnica, 12.7.2010
> 
> Cesta je praktično dokončana, odsek od Zgornjega Čačiča do Osilnice(3km) ostaja večinoma makadam. Sicer je super narejeno. Cesta uradno še ni odprta, vendar se ljudje vozijo in razgledujejo naokoli. Tako sem naredil nahitro nekaj slik kjer se cesta spušča v dolino Petra Klepca, ki jih malo pozno objavljam
> 
> 1. serpentina
> 
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> 2. serpentina
> 
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> Ograje so lesene
> 
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> Na ovinku na koncu ravnine je predvideno manjše počivališče(slaba slika)
> 
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> Ostri zavoji
> 
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> Tu se odpira razgled na dolino reke Kolpe
> 
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> Največji naklon naj bi znašal 15% Sicer je spust z najvišje točke(993m n.v.) večinoma precej strm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gradnja je bila kakopak zelo zahtevna


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## ChrisZwolle

Too bad they don't use edge markings. I believe such markings are essential on rural roads.


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## 3naranze

nice _serpentina_
serpente stands for snake in italian and serpeggiante and serpentina stand for winding (road/line)


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## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> Too bad they don't use edge markings. I believe such markings are essential on rural roads.


unfortunately, it is not a custom in ex-YU countries, and it is more useful, than middle line. in HR i know only few roads with edge lines and without central one (maybe 5). 

i also wanted to comment horizontal markings - i have already noticed those tiny dashed lines in SLO. they never turn into solid line, i guess that doesn't mean "allowed overtaking" but just marks the middle of the roads, right?


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## hofburg

yes, that's right.


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## Verso

Yes, I think so, because it's not a good idea to overtake in a curve. Otherwise we unfortunately don't draw edge lines on less important roads such as this one. Even on main roads they are usually very washed out.



3naranze said:


> nice _serpentina_
> serpente stands for snake in italian and serpeggiante and serpentina stand for winding (road/line)


Similar in English. 'Serpent' is a snake, while 'serpentine' is a hairpin turn. I think the word 'serpentine' even derives from 'serpent', given that serpents (snakes) are long and winding.


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## PLH

Verso said:


> The Slovenian motorway company DARS is becoming a private company and the owner of Slovenian motorways and expressways, which it will also finance.


Does it mean prices will go up? If so, then I should hurry if I want to visit Ljubljana this week 

By the way,which exit is the best to reach city center when coming from Trieste, so via A2?


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## hofburg

prices won't change.
the quickest exit is Ljubljana-center. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...2,14.503841&sspn=0.013796,0.0421&ie=UTF8&z=15


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## Verso

^ It's called Ljubljana-center, but then you find out you can't park anywhere. Therefore I'd leave the motorway at the first exit on the southern bypass - Ljubljana-zahod (west) - and park in front of the parliament; either outside or underground.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...4905,14.511909&spn=0.086138,0.154324&t=h&z=13


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## hofburg

today's trip to the slovenian coast:







































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































view on Izola













































descending to Portoroz


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## hofburg

a bit of Portoroz...


















































































going back




































































































short 4 lanes expressway near Izola













































port of Koper in front of us


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## hofburg

Ah, sorry, I thought you wanna say in slovene.


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## hofburg

driving on a city avenue in Celje:

map:http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...=46.236615,15.277691&spn=0.054974,0.1684&z=13


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## Bad_Hafen

Verso said:


> I know, but border-crossing names don't appear on map of Europe (and neither do villages like Šentilj). As I said, I don't mind Šentilj on signs.


All Yugoslavia knew this name and the name of border crossing because it was one of the biggest and the busiest. 

Avstrija was normal 20 years ago, it is still normal in some countries. And the sign is old scheme.


----------



## Verso

Palance said:


> And furthermore, the text "Avstrija" is unnessecary in these days. Graz (OK, Gradec  ) with an Oval "A" should be enough.


At least 'Avstrija' is similar to 'Austria'. Imagine 'Madžarska' on signs (Slovenian for Hungary) without 'H' in oval. Anyway, they wouldn't write just 'Madžarska'. I remember an old sign (I think in Radenci) with 'Madžarska/Hungary (H)', so no worries. There're signs for 'Hrvaška' in Ljubljana, but with 'HR' in oval.


----------



## Bad_Hafen

Oval is new thing it didn´t exist on signs 20 years ago, at least i don´t know it has.


----------



## Verso

This sign is from 1985 (when they opened the Ljubljana-Kranj motorway) and it has an oval:


----------



## hofburg

Verso said:


> At least 'Avstrija' is similar to 'Austria'. Imagine 'Madžarska' on signs (Slovenian for Hungary) without 'H' in oval. Anyway, they wouldn't write just 'Madžarska'. I remember an old sign (I think in Radenci) with 'Madžarska/Hungary (H)', so no worries. There're signs for 'Hrvaška' in Ljubljana, but with 'HR' in oval.


interesting, why Hungary has H as international code, and not first leters of hungarian name - "Magyarország" ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Many countries don't have that;

FIN - Suomi
A - Österreich
CZ - Ceska Republika
CH - Schweiz
GR - Hellas
ARM - Hayastan 
IL - Yisrā'el


----------



## rarse

hofburg said:


> interesting, why Hungary has H as international code, and not first leters of hungarian name - "Magyarország" ?


Same with:

A - "Österreich"

CH - "Switzerland, Suisse, Svizerra"

S - "Sverige" just kidding


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> I remember an old sign (I think in Radenci) with 'Madžarska/Hungary (H)', so no worries.


that's nothing. i remember sign in VIrovitica at interchange of today's D2 and D5 indicating N.R. Madžarska for Barcs :lol: (N.R. = nardona republika = people's republic). when Berlin wall fell down, they have just covered "N.R.". i will never forget when i said that at class, and my (communist) teacher asked me arogantly "so if it isn't people's republic anymore, what it is now? animals' republic?" :nuts:

btw, I guess Switzerland is the only country which uses Latin abbrevitation


----------



## ea1969

It is a bit strange how they have allocated these codes. There are cases in which the English and/or French country name was used (at the time the first allocations were done, French was considered as the "diplomatic/international" language). Quite a few have been mentioned above. On the other hand we have IS, HR, SF (it was the old allocation for Finland for Suomi/Finland), D, E etc.


----------



## 3naranze

^^treaty of vienna 1968 & ISO 3166 standard:

En wikipedia - abstract:
Cross border vehicles

One of the main benefits of the convention for motorists is the obligation on signatory countries to recognise the legality of vehicles from other signatory countries. However, the following requirements must be met when driving outside the country of registration:

* Cars must display their registration number at the front and rear, even if legislation in the jurisdiction of registration does not require a front vehicle registration plate on cars.Motorcycles need display their registration number only at the rear. Registration numbers must be displayed in Latin characters and Arabic numerals . In addition to this, the registration number may optionally be displayed in a different alphabet.
* A distinguishing sign of the country of registration must be displayed on the rear of the vehicle. The physical requirements for this sign are defined in Annex 3 of the convention, which states that it must comprise black writing on a white oval background and that it must not form part of the vehicle's registration number. In practice, the requirement to display the white oval is mutually waived between some countries, for example between many European countries (where the white oval may be substituted by a blue strip on the vehicle registration plate ) and between Canada , the United States and Mexico (where the state or province of registration is usually embossed or surface-printed on the vehicle registration plate ).
(....)


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> that's nothing. i remember sign in VIrovitica at interchange of today's D2 and D5 indicating N.R. Madžarska for Barcs :lol: (N.R. = nardona republika = people's republic). when Berlin wall fell down, they have just covered "N.R.".


Austrians still have a lot of old signs with 'Slowenien' written over 'Jugoslawien'. Austrian signs are ancient anyway.


----------



## hofburg

ChrisZwolle said:


> Many countries don't have that;
> 
> FIN - Suomi
> A - Österreich
> CZ - Ceska Republika
> CH - Schweiz
> GR - Hellas
> ARM - Hayastan
> IL - Yisrā'el


ja, I realised that later. 



x-type said:


> i will never forget when i said that at class, and my (communist) teacher asked me arogantly "so if it isn't people's republic anymore, what it is now? animals' republic?" :nuts:


:lol:


----------



## x-type

hofburg said:


> :lol:


yep. and it was funny to the class. few months after that we became animals' republic, too :lol:


----------



## Bad_Hafen

Verso said:


> This sign is from 1985 (when they opened the Ljubljana-Kranj motorway) and it has an oval:


Are you sure it is from 1985.?


----------



## Verso

Bad_Hafen said:


> Are you sure it is from 1985.?


It looks old and I remember it since "always". It's also the old-style oval with a wide 'A', now it would be narrow, like here. Anyway, the sign below is almost definitely from before independence and it has ovals (A, I). You can also see an ancient E-road signed (I think it says E652, which is now between Klagenfurt and the Slovenian A2, but I guess it was between Villach and Ljubljana back then (which is now E61)):


----------



## Bad_Hafen

I have travelled a lot before and i can not remember seeing ovals ever.


----------



## hofburg

Verso said:


>


this road no longer exitst.  was one of the rare concrete, right?


----------



## Verso

^ I think it still exists, unless they pulled it out, but I'm not sure driving there is still allowed. I think it was a mix of concrete and asphalt, it looks too dark to be just concrete. Hard shoulders were (light) asphalt, I think.


----------



## blagun

hofburg said:


> 3 is changed now. if you look at rarse's 1st post:
> _Last edited by rarse; Yesterday at 05:33 PM. _


 Rarse uses a sector of the roundabout which can be considered as a part of H2.
My proposal is to avoid this roundabout driving on the white road on Google maps.


----------



## Verso

An old photo (from 1980s) of the northern LJ bypass without the World Trade Center (built in 1993):









_Photo: Dragan Arrigler_

I think it looked pretty boring without it.









_http://img.siol.net/10/191/634143701208704973_avtocesta1.jpg_


----------



## mediar

^^ I can't open the first pic.


----------



## Verso

^ What about now?


----------



## hofburg

yeah, putting it in your photobucket album certainly will make it more sure.  I see both.


----------



## Verso

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/36032799

Hehe, Austrians signed Maribor also to the old road because of the Slovenian vignette. (this guy has a lot of road pics, btw)


----------



## hofburg

^^ and really nice ones!! we should invite him to join ssc forum.


----------



## hofburg

A short today-historic report from border crossings near Nova Gorica, more particulary I will describe how was going on the 10 days war for Slovenian independence (juin - july 1991) on those border crossings (source: my father, a soldier in a unit, which covered this area).

so we will take a short trip from Rozna Dolina near Nova Gorica, along the border towards Kras:










starting in Rozna Dolina, heading for Italy













































at this border crossing, there was the hardest battle in this area with JLA (Yugoslav army). JLA was quite numberous (115 soldiers) and they had 5 tanks guarding the border crossing. Unit of slovene Teritorial defence (TO) where without any vehicles, but they had a one of those RPG or something similar.  so, because negotiations failed, TO (they were hiding behind one of these bulidings on the right) lauched one RPG in a JLA's tank, one JLA soldier was killed, and rest of them surrendered imediately. 

from the book (http://www.velenje.zvvs.si/publikacije.htm)

(Vojna za Slovenijo 1991 
Publikacija ob 15. obletnici osamosvojitve Slovenije
Urednik publikacije: Albin Mikulič, 28.april 2006
Avtor: vojaški muzej Slovenske vojske)

_"At the border crossing in Rožna Valley, between
Nova Gorica and Gorizia on the Slovenian and
Italian side were placed
115 members of the JLA. They were well
armed, and had a five tanks.
In spite of the unfavorable relationship of forces Territorial Defence of
Territorial and policemen attacked the border crossing point.
Army officers soon recognized
hopeless situation, so they surrendered.
Liberation of the border crossing in Rožna
Valley has a significant impact on further
developments in Primorska (slovene littoral) ."_





































20 years ago:



















so going to the next border crossing - Vrtojba/San Andrea:

notice the red italian building:


























































































approaching rouadabout













































border crossing from italian side:






















































taking the fist exit to make a U turn


















and slovenian side:









first section of H4 was opened in 1996 (till Selo), although the border crossing existed before, here is a map from 1980 showing that short section of H4: (yeah, I had to improved it )










so, at this border crossing, there was also a unit of JLA, and TO (slovene teritorial defence) were approaching from the village Vrtojba. but they didn't have a lot of work here, since negotiations between slovene police and JLA were succesfull here and they surrendered without a fight.























































continuing towards A4... haha, I am kidding!  I wish... :|








































































turnig left to Slovenia 



























not a good road on Kras plateau


















now, in Nova vas, near Opatje Selo, there was a third point with JLA in this area. JLA (1 officer and 15 soldier, some of them even slovenes) was staying in small guardhouse near the border. TO surrounded them. they started negotiations, my father told me it went something like that:
"you're surrounded, please exit ... (and similar on), and the answer of that JLA officer was always: "Necu" (I don't want in srbo-croatian). so this went on for 3 times, then this officer ordered his soldiers to throw hand grenates around, but that didn't do any damage, moreover soldiers didn't want to listen to his orders. they just wanted to go home. he also started shooting at his own soldiers to make them obey, and he also told that he has 2 Minobacac or Mortar in english, directed to the churh bell in Opatje selo and to the gas station in Opatje Selo.
so when TO saw, that the only problem is him, rafal (eng. burst) from automatic firearm from TO took him down when he showed up from a cover.

there is a memorial in Nova vas:










but I couldn't find a guardhouse, I don't believe that it still exist.

edit: it does: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...006921,0.02105&t=h&z=16&lci=com.panoramio.all










lost 









must be 50m before italian border



























a church bell of Opatje selo seen from Nova vas (where "Minobacac" D) was pointed to)



















going back


















Vipava vally from Italy









almost forgot: big surrender of JLA in Sempeter near Nova Gorica (that sign was replaced)









anyway, Rozna Dolina border crossing from italian side













































Nova Gorica - gambling town









that's all. :cheers:


----------



## g.spinoza

I didn't realize that those battles happened so close to the Italian border. I thought most of them happened in eastern Slovenia.


----------



## hofburg

g.spinoza said:


> I didn't realize that those battles happened so close to the Italian border. I thought most of them happened in eastern Slovenia.


mostly they were all around the border, also Fernetici and Skofije, http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slika:Slovenian_war_map.jpg

don't worry, there was Italian army (with few 10 tanks) watching carefully on the other side.


----------



## g.spinoza

hofburg said:


> mostly they were all around the border, also Fernetici and Skofije, http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slika:Slovenian_war_map.jpg


I was 12 at the time... I remember the war vaguely, at that age I was more interested in other things 



> don't worry, there was Italian army (with few 10 tanks) watching carefully on the other side.


I never thought that the battles could come on our side  It was pretty much and internal Yugoslavian thing (even if NATO intervened heavily in Kossovo, some time later)


----------



## Palance

Thank you very much for this interesting series! Hvala!


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## hofburg

you're welcome.


----------



## 3naranze

hofburg said:


> don't worry, there was Italian army (with few 10 tanks) watching carefully on the other side.


...there were Alpini (so called italian alpine troops) of _Brigata "Cadore" _(Belluno-Feltre-Pieve di Cadore) at Uccea's border


----------



## Verso

hofburg said:


>


Internally-lit signs.

Interesting report, hofburg. I spent the war by my grandparents in Ljubljana. We moved out of our commieblock for those ten days, because it was built by the Yugoslav army. Just in case.


----------



## hofburg

3naranze said:


> ...there were Alpini (so called italian alpine troops) of _Brigata "Cadore" _(Belluno-Feltre-Pieve di Cadore) at Uccea's border


didn't know that.

there's even a video of battle in rozna dolina.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtPIz9uJdys#t=02m38s

hehe Verso, so what were you expecting? that JLA will use it? 



Verso said:


> Internally-lit signs.


I noticed that.


----------



## Verso

hofburg said:


> hehe Verso, so what were you expecting? that JLA will use it?


We weren't enthusiastic about spending the war in a block full of Yugoslav (Serbian) officers.


----------



## g.spinoza

I know that we're going off topic, but what did you Slovenes think about the war, back then? I mean, did you think it was gonna last only 10 days or did you expect something longer and worse?


----------



## Verso

g.spinoza said:


> I know that we're going off topic, but what did you Slovenes think about the war, back then? I mean, did you think it was gonna last only 10 days or did you expect something longer and worse?


I was 8, so I didn't know much what was going on, I just remember it freaked me out every time I heard military planes over Ljubljana. I also remember signs for mines on one of Ljubljana's arterial roads. In any case, even just 10 days in war feel like eternity.


----------



## hofburg

I was 3, and I remember going in a basement because of sirens.
but in general, I think Slovenia wasn't prepared for anything longer then 10 days. we took advantage in big mess in JLA (they didn't even know what are they fighting for) and block avery action in its begining. during the war there was also a huge diplomatic movement of our politicians, we always tried to stop the fire even in if we have to give up something (brion declaration which finished the war was a bad compromis for us). Also knowing that JLA was one of the biggest army in europe at that time, we couldn't afford a long war, so everybody relaxed when they went away on the ship in Koper.


----------



## Verso

KaaRoy said:


> Unfortunately I cannot read Slovenian or Croatian. Anyway, I can only assume those kinds of border arrangements were created when ownership of individual parcels were taken into consideration.


You're correct. Let me translate those two sentences:


> ... Od današnje slovensko-hrvaške meje se loči po tem, da je bila takrat celotna k. o. [katastrska občina] Sekuliči vključena v Vojno krajino (XII. slunjski regiment), na vsaki strani meje pa je obstajala mala množica enklav, ki so mnogokrat obsegale le eno ali dve parceli, vendar so se sčasoma stopile s sosednjim ozemljem (Kos 1987: 18). Edina preostala enklava, ki se je obdržala do današnjih dni, je v vasi Brezovica pri Metliki (glej sliko 4.2).





> ... From the present Slovenian-Croatian border it [the border in times of the Austrian monarchy] differs/differed in that back then the entire cadastral district of Sekuliči/Sekulići was included in the Military Frontier (XII. Slunj Regiment), while on both sides of the border there were plenty of enclaves, which often comprised just one or two parcels, but eventually they merged with the neighboring territory (Kos 1987: 18). The only existing enclave left until today is in the village of Brezovica pri Metliki [Brezovica by Metlika] (see image 4.2).


I hope that explains it. 


In other news, the missing part of A4 (Ptuj-Croatia) goes U/C next year and is to be completed in 2013. :cheers: There were also some talks about expressway to Velenje.


----------



## Verso

double


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Verso said:


> In other news, the missing part of A4 (Ptuj-Croatia) goes U/C next year and is to be completed in 2013. :cheers:


:banana:

Any official news story on this?


----------



## keber

Actually only spatial plan for new motorway was accepted by the government, which means they can start to buy necessary land and make detailed plans for construction. If the construction will start next year it is not so clear (finances).


----------



## Verso

Yeah, the spatial plan was adopted.

http://www.dars.si/Novice/Uredba_o_...ci–mednarodni_mejni_prehod_Gruskovje_730.aspx

The length of the motorway will be 13.05 km.


----------



## Verso

H6 now officially exists. The two expressway parts of the G2-111 (Koper-Izola-Portorož-Croatia) were renamed into H6 (Koper- and Izola bypasses), the rest of the road stays G2-111. You now also need a vignette for the expressway parts as they went in hands of DARS (although they didn't mention the Izola bypass, just the Koper bypass, so I'm not sure).

http://www.dars.si/Novice/Vinjeta_o...hitre_ceste_med_Slavckom_in_Semedelo_732.aspx


----------



## treichard

More specifically, where do the sections of H6 end?

Are these the endpoints?
Road 11 interchange (H5 ends here, too?) to the next interchange to the west.
and
Interchange northeast of Izola to the first intersection southwest of Izola?


----------



## Verso

^^ Yes, from the G1-11 interchange (where H5 ends) to the end of the 4-lane expressway (or perhaps ~1 km sooner, at the future interchange with the new expressway for Pula). As for Izola bypass, just the 4-lane part (if at all, I'm not sure, they don't mention it). So yes, H6 is currently very short.


----------



## x-type

so Izola bypass require a sticker now?


----------



## keber

Not yet. But with future additional section of expressway before (in construction) and after (in design phase) Izola bypass it will be needed sooner or later.


----------



## eucitizen

What about the construction of the HC towards Dragonja? Any map?And are there going to be some tunnels?


----------



## Verso

eucitizen said:


> What about the construction of the HC towards Dragonja? Any map?And are there going to be some tunnels?


The red variant:


----------



## Verso

As this thread is quite boring lately, even proposals deserve to be mentioned. So, this is a new proposal for building Škofljica bypass towards Kočevje, as well as widening the A2 motorway southeast of Ljubljana. Here is a drawing made by keber. Pay special attention to 2×3 turning into 4×2 (not 2×4) by Ljubljana (due to lack of space).


keber said:


>


I hope it gets built.


----------



## hofburg

Verso said:


> So, this is a new proposal for building Škofljica bypass towards Kočevje, as well as widening the A2 motorway southeast of Ljubljana. Here is a drawing made by keber. Pay special attention to 2×3 turning into 4×2 (not 2×4) by Ljubljana (due to lack of space).I hope it gets built.


nice proposal. those 4 tunnels will be similar to those ones on A4 near Vicenca.. 



> As this thread is quite boring lately,


I think it's due to (almost) finished motorway cross. big openings are behind us, from now on we'll get only less important short links and widenings (Ljubljana ring I hope). but to make it less boring, we could start documentating Slovenia's main roads, bypasses, city avenues.  currently I am not in Slovenia, so, Verso...?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

4x2 because of the additional tunnels required? 

By the way, is that Škofljica exit where you feel like you're plunging down from the Avtocesta?


----------



## x-type

i could have taken a lots of photos of SLO motorways in last month, but i traveled it in night each time. in last month i ahve passed them all except Ljubljana - Maribor and Maribor - Hungary and these are the only SLO motorways which I havened seen yet, they are absolutely out of all my routes 

this proposal is interesting, in that tunnel always appear crowds. btw, in which of those 2 tunnels at A2 is speed control, that one, or the other?


----------



## Verso

hofburg said:


> I think it's due to (almost) finished motorway cross. big openings are behind us, from now on we'll get only less important short links and widenings (Ljubljana ring I hope). but to make it less boring, we could start documentating Slovenia's main roads, bypasses, city avenues.  currently I am not in Slovenia, so, Verso...?


Iono, I'd have to buy a new cam. 



ChrisZwolle said:


> 4x2 because of the additional tunnels required?


Yeah, because of tunnels, not lack of space. It would be less chaotic than widening the existing tunnel(s). But it would be interesting, if they also widened the southern or eastern LJ bypass. You'd come from 3 lanes (one direction) to 2 in the Malence interchange, and then back to 3 after it. But widening to 4×3 (or widening any ramp to 3 lanes in the interchange) probably wouldn't make sense (at least I hope so, or else we'd be stuck with 4 too narrow tunnel tubes). I guess AADT is somewhere around 25,000 now, so low.



ChrisZwolle said:


> By the way, is that Škofljica exit where you feel like you're plunging down from the Avtocesta?


What do you mean? It would be right before this viaduct.



x-type said:


> btw, in which of those 2 tunnels at A2 is speed control, that one, or the other?


There're no radars in Slovenian tunnels, only before and sometimes after them. There's one right after the second tunnel and viaduct from Ljubljana (but in direction LJ), but the speed limit there is 130 km/h. In the other direction a radar is right before it, and speed limit 100 km/h (although now I'm not sure a radar is really there; keber should know better).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Verso said:


> What do you mean? It would be right before this viaduct.


I mean this one:


pic 121 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Verso

No no, that's 20 km from Ljubljana.


----------



## keber

That's Višnja Gora exit (as written). For Škofljica it is currently Ljubljana-south, right before A1-A2 interchange, which causes many conflicting traffic situations and numerous accidents, which can cause half-day traffic jams.

Those 4 tunnels are taken from proposal for widening of complete Ljubljana bypass including widening both A1 approaches and A2 from Zagreb. New Škofljica exit (if it will be approved) was added later (although speculated before). It is much easier to construct additional 2 tunnels as part of interchange than to widen both tunnels, also traffic safety is much increased, if traffic flows separate/merge before/after tunnel (and not oppose)


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> There're no radars in Slovenian tunnels, only before and sometimes after them. There's one right after the second tunnel and viaduct from Ljubljana (but in direction LJ), but the speed limit there is 130 km/h. In the other direction a radar is right before it, and speed limit 100 km/h (although now I'm not sure a radar is really there; keber should know better).


really?! i don't know why i was so sure that there is fixed radar in (or after) tunnel Debeli hrib in direction Ljubljana :dunno: probably because of 80 km/h warnings. and i have noticed that ebfore that tunnel everybody slow down.


i have one more question: Novo *m*esto, but Mirna *P*eč. why?!


----------



## keber

x-type said:


> probably because of 80 km/h warnings. and i have noticed that ebfore that tunnel everybody slow down.


Actually people in Slovenia started to obey speed limits on motorways.



> i have one more question: Novo *m*esto, but Mirna *P*eč. why?!


mesto, vas, selo, trg are written with small capital. All other second names are written with big capital letter.


----------



## Verso

keber said:


> small capital


Error. :lol:


----------



## x-type

does somebody have photo of toll station Dragotinci?
edit: no need, i have found it. why is there forbidden overpassing?


----------



## Verso

^ Probably because it's a bit narrow.


----------



## x-type

why wouldn't i share that photo?


----------



## Verso

^^ Thanks, I really like the pic for some reason.


----------



## lukaszek89

what reason?


----------



## Verso

_Some_ reason.  I don't know, it feels like in the middle of nowhere. Actually I like the A5 as such (particularly between Maribor and Murska Sobota), because it doesn't follow the old road, but a new route, without established demographic and economic activities along it yet, so it's more pristine.


----------



## lukaszek89

I also like roads in the middle of f. e. forest:yes:


----------



## hofburg

Verso said:


> _Some_ reason.  I don't know, it feels like in the middle of nowhere. Actually I like the A5 as such (particularly between Maribor and Murska Sobota), because it doesn't follow the old road, but a new route, without established demographic and economic activities along it yet, so it's more pristine.


It looks very fresh.  where exactly is located?



> Actually people in Slovenia started to obey speed limits on motorways.


I noticed that too. slowly after 'big' new traffic law with increased penalties from 2008 I think. It was about time.


----------



## Verso

hofburg said:


> It looks very fresh.  where exactly is located?


It's 2 years young, as ladies would say.  It's here.


----------



## smokiboy

I will be traveling from the direction of Zagreb and I am heading to Ljubljana. I will have some time so I wanted to avoid motorways. Can anyone recommend a good route? How long will it take?
On the way back I will probably use the motorway, how much are vignettes?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## hofburg

wrong thread!  we try and try to finish motorway cross as quickly as possible, and then people are asking how to avoid it. :lol:

now seriously:
two options
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...5.868019,15.131607&spn=0.219935,0.673599&z=11
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...=45.824732,15.735855&spn=0.110053,0.3368&z=12


----------



## seem

There is no marked motorway "by-pass" of Trebnje. Is it in use? I am just not sure.


----------



## hofburg

yes, google is late.


----------



## x-type

Zagrb - Ljubljana is actually probably one od the worst routes to avoid motorway


----------



## smokiboy

thanks guys for the quick response. I should have checked out google maps, and via Michelin my self.
I think I will use the motorway.


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> Zagrb - Ljubljana is actually probably one od the worst routes to avoid motorway


Definitely.



hofburg said:


> two options
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...5.868019,15.131607&spn=0.219935,0.673599&z=11
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...=45.824732,15.735855&spn=0.110053,0.3368&z=12


That border crossing is reserved for citizens of EU, Croatia, EEA and Switzerland. I think this would be the best route. Or go via Karlovac - Delnice - Kočevje. :lol:


----------



## hofburg

if you wanna get stuck in Zidani Most - Hrastnik section, most certainly


----------



## Verso

^^ Why stuck there?


----------



## il brutto

^^ If you follow Sava the main road goes right in Zidani Most towards Celje, than in Rimske Toplice you cross the hill to Hrastnik. That's where any trucks go between e.g. Celje to Hrastnik. If you have time you can also follow the small road along the river which looks like a nice and quick shortcut, but in fact it gets very narrow for 1.5km or so with one-way traffic, so you may have to wait up to 20min for green light (8-10 yrs ago they installed traffic lights, before it was just times written on a sign). See cars waiting here and another one on the other side, further east you also cross the railway in a sharp and steep curve... twice, so it's unlikely you'd be quicker than via Rimske Toplice. But if you're not in a hurry you can save petrol 

I don't know how the road on the other bank is though, but it's probably worse and maybe unpaved.

Bonus: Another gem along the way: manual ropeway across the river


----------



## Verso

I haven't driven there in a long time.


----------



## hofburg

^


















photos from this guy http://www.panoramio.com/user/3646601?comment_page=1&photo_page=1
actually he joined ssc on my invite, but never posted anything. do you think it would be ok to post his panoramio photos here?


----------



## Verso

^^ I guess you can, if you credit him, which is why I'll post some more of his pics.  G2-101 (also E652) between A2 and Tržič is the only remaining 2-lane expressway/motorroad in Slovenia:









_http://www.panoramio.com/photo/40845465_









_http://www.panoramio.com/photo/40845470_









_http://www.panoramio.com/photo/40845486_









_http://www.panoramio.com/photo/40847319_









_http://www.panoramio.com/photo/40847329_









_http://www.panoramio.com/photo/40847412_









_http://www.panoramio.com/photo/40847421_

Photos by alen_koprivnjak.


----------



## hofburg

^ I wanted to post these! 
nice expressway without a name. why not name it with H?


----------



## hofburg

I resized them. 























































Photos by alen_koprivnjak. http://www.panoramio.com/user/3646601?comment_page=1&photo_page=1


----------



## Verso

hofburg said:


> ^ I wanted to post these!


Too little too late. :lol:


----------



## Verso

Btw, that road is horrible on the Austrian side:









_http://www.panoramio.com/photo/27302392 by Maurizio Stocco_


----------



## hofburg

well, from Villach you have 500m of altitude difference, from slovenian side only 150m+.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Same for Ljubelj / Loiblpass. The Slovenian side is much better than the Austrian side.


----------



## hofburg

from Carinthia to Lower Styria...























































































































































































































































































































































Photos by alen_koprivnjak http://www.panoramio.com/user/364660...1&photo_page=1


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## seem

^^ Brezno


----------



## Verso

^^ Yeah, I know, there's a forumite from there.  Thanks for the pics, I've driven on this road hundred times, but not in the last decade. Btw:


hofburg said:


>


:sly:


----------



## x-type

yeah, that's what i've noticed too. is it Spodnja or Zgornja?


----------



## Verso

Hofburg, you forgot to post the most important intersection on that road (personal reasons ):









http://www.panoramio.com/photo/40561110 by alen_koprivnjak


----------



## keber

Verso said:


> Btw, that road is horrible on the Austrian side:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _http://www.panoramio.com/photo/27302392 by Maurizio Stocco_


Few weeks ago it was in renovation. Needs to be checked now ...


----------



## il brutto

ChrisZwolle said:


> Same for Ljubelj / Loiblpass. The Slovenian side is much better than the Austrian side.


And same for Predel/Predil pass to Italy and the road from Kranjska Gora to Tarvisio (though last part is ok). Anyone knows about Jezersko/Seebergsattel?


----------



## Verso

keber said:


> Few weeks ago it was in renovation. Needs to be checked now ...


After how many decades? 



il brutto said:


> And same for Predel/Predil pass to Italy and the road from Kranjska Gora to Tarvisio (though last part is ok). Anyone knows about Jezersko/Seebergsattel?


This one is much better on the Austrian side, but for just a few kms from the border, the rest is similar.


----------



## keber

...


----------



## marchionni

Ljubljana-Bled


----------



## il brutto

^^ pix don't work


----------



## hofburg

he forgot to put directlink instead of link to web page... thanks for the photos.



marchionni said:


> Ljubljana-Bled


----------



## hofburg

very nice videos from the air of slovenian motorways, made by Dars.

Littoral motorway A1, H4 and H5
http://www.dars.si/Dokumenti/Medijsko_sredisce/Videogalerija_683.aspx
notice viaduct crni kal around 06:00

Ljubljana ring
http://www.dars.si/Dokumenti/Medijsko_sredisce/Videogalerija_683.aspx?mid=67

Styria motorway A1 and A4
http://www.dars.si/Dokumenti/Medijsko_sredisce/Videogalerija_683.aspx?mid=55

Upper Carniola motorway A2
http://www.dars.si/Dokumenti/Medijsko_sredisce/Videogalerija_683.aspx?mid=53

Lower Carniola motorway A2
http://www.dars.si/Dokumenti/Medijsko_sredisce/Videogalerija_683.aspx?mid=51


----------



## keber

Some morning pictures from today on A2 from Ljubljana to Trebnje:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Magnificent  I miss Slovenia


----------



## hofburg

kay: 

sun bothered you a bit in the begining.


----------



## Verso

Simulation of driving in the wrong direction at Vransko interchange:

http://www.dars.si/Dokumenti/Napotki/Varna_voznja/Nasveti_za_varno_voznjo_689.aspx


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> Simulation of driving in the wrong direction at Vransko interchange:
> 
> http://www.dars.si/Dokumenti/Napotki/Varna_voznja/Nasveti_za_varno_voznjo_689.aspx


i like the last phase (where system stops traffic on motorway). do you think this is an expensive thing?
and how many problems do you have in SLO with driving in wrong direction at motorway?


----------



## Verso

^^ I don't know about its price, but there're more and more cases of driving in the wrong direction. Today was approved a new traffic law, which punishes it with 1,200 € (previously 300 €) and loss of driving license (previously 5 penalty points out of 18).


----------



## hofburg

Verso said:


> Simulation of driving in the wrong direction at Vransko interchange:
> 
> http://www.dars.si/Dokumenti/Napotki/Varna_voznja/Nasveti_za_varno_voznjo_689.aspx


I thought the final phase would be a hammer or something falling down on the vehicle.


----------



## x-type

hofburg said:


> I thought the final phase would be a hammer or something falling down on the vehicle.


actually i expected some needles come out from the road which destroy tyres on the car. i heard they use something like that in Austria.


----------



## Verso

Rush hour on the northern Ljubljana bypass:








_http://www.panoramio.com/photo/10472588 by Milde N_

Western bypass:








_http://www.panoramio.com/photo/40163090 by sergejmilic_

Northern bypass by night:








_http://www.panoramio.com/photo/7732511 by sergejmilic_


----------



## keber

x-type said:


> actually i expected some needles come out from the road which destroy tyres on the car. i heard they use*d* something like that in Austria.


It is not good solution, it can punish also cars driving in right direction. And also for emergency vehicles in some situations it is not good.


----------



## Uppsala

Verso said:


> Rush hour on the northern Ljubljana bypass:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _http://www.panoramio.com/photo/10472588 by Milde N_


When did they built this Ljubljana bypass? It look like 1960s or 1970s. It is from the time when Ljubljana and Slovenia was in Yugoslavia.


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## Verso

^^ That particular section in 1981. Otherwise there were many different sections of the ringroad built between 1979 and 1999 (of which the northern bypass (H3) between 1981 and 1998).


----------



## keber

West: 1981
North 1981+1983+1996+1998
South 1988 (according to motorway company, construction took 9 years to finish)
East 1998+1999

Also, northern bypass was at first 6-laned, that is without hard shoulder:









Some years later rightmost lane was converted to hard shoulder with proper exit lanes, probably because of safety problems at exits. Some markings regarding 6 lanes are still visible on some exits (barely). 
1981 part still has original pavement and because of dense traffic it gets replaced only on worst sections.
1983 part was demolished when building extension, because it was on existing ground, and extension was put into cutting. 

Extension to 6 lanes is planned in the future and if counting all necessary widenings on oncoming motorways it could cost close to 1 billion euro.


----------



## Verso

keber said:


> Some years later rightmost lane was converted to hard shoulder with proper exit lanes, probably because of safety problems at exits. Some markings regarding 6 lanes are still visible on some exits (barely).


Surprisingly well visible:








_http://www.panoramio.com/photo/7732511 by sergejmilic_


----------



## hofburg

hehe, indeed. besides hard shoulder looks wider than one on a normal motorway.


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> and how many problems do you have in SLO with driving in wrong direction at motorway?


1 dead and 3 heavily injured because of another idiot driving in the wrong direction between Ljubljana and Kranj. :bash:


----------



## hofburg

from now on it's Italy, but I will post it here to continue my journey. hope Italian friends won't mind. 

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...5.884034,13.558502&spn=0.109936,0.467606&z=12














































widening works on Raccordo Vilesse - Gorizia









Soca river













































Ikea









going for Triste









smooth A4













































airport Ronchi




































Italian WW1 memorial






















































road to Slovenia  http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...45.887021,13.593521&spn=0.006871,0.02105&z=16









border is really artificial here. villages on both sides all look the same, roads such as above were disconected... even a fire wich took down the trees along this road came from slovenia.  there are new trees on the right side of the road.









Pipistrel doing some exercising on Gorizia airport (I guess) 



























that's all. :cheers:


----------



## Moravian

hofburg said:


> from now on it's Italy, but I will post it here to continue my journey. hope Italian friends won't mind.
> 
> that's all. :cheers:


Thanks for those nice pictures. Anyway, the WW1-memorial (quite known) in Redipuglia has been the focused destination? Or, just to enjoy Italy and the river Isonzo/Soča a bit? As for the H4.si - the interesting fact is that there is only ITALIA (border) noted as the destination - no city in Italy like Venezia,Udine/Videm etc...


----------



## hofburg

there's was no destination, or maybe the Ronchi airport if you will. there are signs with only Italia, or Udine. 



Verso said:


> I miss destination Venice.


old ones from 1996 are usually with only Italia on.


----------



## Moravian

there's was no destination, or maybe the Ronchi airport if you will. there are signs with only Italia, or Udine. 



old ones from 1996 are usually with only Italia on.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that added information. Well, Benétke/Venezia and Videm/Udine - it would be (are) reasonable to be shown on the H4 as the destinations. Trst/Trieste - not so because there is no direct connection, it is reasonable even at the Italian section just before the juction with A4.it.....
It is useful to show the distance to the Italian boarder maybe just in the boarder-section as for the higher distance - it concerns (almost) the duplication if there is (would be) "Nova Gorica" (might be with "I") already.....

The H4 is not the part of the E70 bypassing Trst (motorway connection with Sezana) but it is certainly fully comparative route in comparison with A4.it-A3-A1..and the key motorway connection Italia-Ljubljana...


----------



## hofburg

Moravian said:


> The H4 is not the part of the E70 bypassing Trst (motorway connection with Sezana) but it is certainly fully comparative route in comparison with A4.it-A3-A1..and the key motorway connection Italia-Ljubljana...


well H4 is really more like a local expressway; serving Nova Gorica and the rest of Vipava valley. that's why there is no Venice on the signs (IMO), as well as there's no Ljubljana on the signs in Vilesse on italian A4/raccordo Vilesse-Gorizia exit. but it's true that it can be an alternative, that's why the part in Italy is being widened.


----------



## Moravian

hofburg said:


> well H4 is really more like a local expressway; serving Nova Gorica and the rest of Vipava valley. that's why there is no Venice on the signs (IMO), as well as there's no Ljubljana on the signs in Vilesse on italian A4/raccordo Vilesse-Gorizia exit. but it's true that it can be an alternative, that's why the part in Italy is being widened.


The fact is that one missing section on the H4 (connecting this expressway to A1) in the past is also the background that the key E70 route goes via Sezane and Trst, and due to that fact the goal No.1 for that expressway was to connect Gorica and Vipava valley to Italian road network.

I would stress some quite important international motorway/expressway connectiong passing just the region "Kras-Gorica-Trst":

1)Ljubljana - Italy (Udine, Venezia....)
2)E70 route
3)The connection Hungary (and Eastern Europe) -Italy (sure the route via Austria and Tarvisio/Trbiž as the main alternative...)
4)The alternative truck-route Wien-Graz/Gradec-Italy (as there is tolled-motorways in Austria, SLO as the member of Schengen-zone)
5)International connection to the Adriatic coast of Croatia (Rijeka, Kvarner...)
6)The location of two important international habour - Trieste/Trst and Koper...

The H4 is already completed and the raccordo at Gorizia is going to be widened. IMO - the last bottleneck there is the connection to Rijeka/Reka:
a)the missing highway/expressway Rupa-Trieste
b)the missing highway/expressway Rupa-Postojna (A1) (a quite similar trouble as the infrastructure bottleneck (Maribor)-Ptuj-MMP Gruškovlje-Macelj).


----------



## hofburg

true. that's why motorway network is so dense around this corner (Slovenia: A1, A3, H4, H5, H6, Italy: A4, RA13, RA Gorizia, RA Fernetti, and RA Trieste - Skofije (Koper)). 



> a)the missing highway/expressway Rupa-Trieste


link Divaca - Jelsane is planned, however it's not a direct link, but it uses A3 to reach Trieste.

however, motorway connection between three competitive ports was never a priority.  Rijeka was traditionaly always more like a 'hungarian' port for Budapest, Trieste was Vienna's port, and Koper appeared as a Trieste replacement for Slovenia after WW2.


----------



## Verso

hofburg said:


> well H4 is really more like a local expressway; serving Nova Gorica and the rest of Vipava valley. that's why there is no Venice on the signs (IMO)


Not having Venice on signs on H4 is quite ridiculous, if you ask me. A world-famous city just 130 km from the Slovenian border would surely deserve that. As for being a local expressway - to some extent, and signs suggest it as the main route. There's Udine on (blue) signs, and even just to get to Udine you have to drive on the whole Slovenian H4 and Italian RA17, so you can't say there're only destinations written along H4/RA17. Udine is too far away from the Italian A4 and not so many people go in that direction (A23), so Venice is missing IMO. Anyway, thanks for the pics!


----------



## Moravian

hofburg said:


> true. that's why motorway network is so dense around this corner (Slovenia: A1, A3, H4, H5, H6, Italy: A4, RA13, RA Gorizia, RA Fernetti, and RA Trieste - Skofije (Koper)).
> 
> 
> 
> link Divaca - Jelsane is planned, however it's not a direct link, but it uses A3 to reach Trieste.
> 
> however, motorway connection between three competitive ports was never a priority.  Rijeka was traditionaly always more like a 'hungarian' port for Budapest, Trieste was Vienna's port, and Koper appeared as a Trieste replacement for Slovenia after WW2.


You are surely right. Frankly speaking that issue is more about the motorway-connection between Croatia (Rijeka/Kvarner Bay, Adriatic coast) and Italy etc. It would be important for tourist industry etc. The fact is that it is not the top-priority project for Slovenija. As for the missing motorway between Postojna and MMP Jelsane/Rupa (today, the national road No.6) - the motorway to Koper (from Ljubljana) is more important as the motorway to Rijeka...But, I would like to stress, definitely I do not want to open the political issue of SLO/HR relationship...


----------



## cinxxx

wrong post


----------



## Moravian

Verso said:


> Not having Venice on signs on H4 is quite ridiculous, if you ask me. A world-famous city just 130 km from the Slovenian border would surely deserve that. As for being a local expressway - to some extent, and signs suggest it as the main route. There's Udine on (blue) signs, and even just to get to Udine you have to drive on the whole Slovenian H4 and Italian RA17, so you can't say there're only destinations written along H4/RA17. Udine is too far away from the Italian A4 and not so many people go in that direction (A23), so Venice is missing IMO. Anyway, thanks for the pics!


Well, I would prefer Venice signed on the H4 as well. Very important city and Mestre as the important junction hub....
The fact is that there is the same issue on the Italian motorways A4 and A23. You leave Mestre (A4/A57...) - there are only Trieste for the A4-direction and Udine for the direction A23 + later on also Tarvisio ("A"-border/confine). No information about the capital city Ljubljana even if it is not so far away or something like that. The fact is if you come from Villach/Tarvision, there is the first sign "Venezia" (Trieste as well) in Udine (A23). In Austria in Villach there are signs for:
a)A2 - Wien (Graz, Klagenfurt) - Vienna directly noted at the I/A boarder
b)A11 - Ljubljana (SLO) via Karawankentunnel
c)A10 - Salzburg (D),
d)A2/A23.it - Udine (I) via Tarvisio.

As for UDINE on the H4 - maybe the direct route via SS56 from Gorizia or Gradisca is calculated.

Anyway - at the juction in Palmanova - before SLO entered Schengen in 12/2007 - there was the signs difference between A and SLO as there were passport controls at the boarder I/SLO. Sure, nowadays that difference is over...


----------



## Verso

Moravian said:


> As for UDINE on the H4 - maybe the direct route via SS56 from Gorizia or Gradisca is calculated.


No, surely not, because then the distance would be ~70 km, not 79.

http://maps.google.si/maps?f=d&sour...13.953098&sspn=0.002702,0.004823&ie=UTF8&z=10

http://maps.google.si/maps?f=d&sour...7,13.57961&sspn=0.69031,1.234589&ie=UTF8&z=10


----------



## hofburg

> Anyway - at the juction in Palmanova - before SLO entered Schengen in 12/2007 - there was the signs difference between A and SLO as there were passport controls at the boarder I/SLO. Sure, nowadays that difference is over...


you have an oval SLO sign at Palmanova and Vilesse. nothing before though.

at palmanova no.1









no.2










vilesse has Nova Gorica signed









good example where Austria put oval SLO mark  ...



Bahnsteig4 said:


> Province: Upper Austria
> 
> Coming from the east on A1. Knoten Voralpenkreuz ("Pre-Alpine interchange") links A1 (Vienna-Salzburg, E-W), A9 (Villach-Voralpenkreuz, S-N) and A8 (Voralpenkreuz-Schärding/Suben, SE-NW).


... and Slovenia.
Trieste appears on A1 Maribor - LJ just before reaching LJ ring.



ChrisZwolle said:


>


so in both cases more than 100 km before the border, Italy isn't so generous.


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ The last signal is too crowded, hard to read at high speed


----------



## Moravian

hofburg said:


> you have an oval SLO sign at Palmanova and Vilesse. nothing before though.
> 
> 
> 
> good example where Austria put oval SLO mark  ...
> 
> 
> 
> ... and Slovenia.
> Trieste appears on A1 Maribor - LJ just before reaching LJ ring.
> 
> Thanks for that up-dated pictures as the evidence. There are different habits for that in Italy. For example "Trieste or Brennero" could be observed on the A23 Piacenza-Brescia but Innsbruck or Munich (D) is signed really closed to the boarder (in Vipiteno....)....As for the capital city in Italy - no information concerning Roma round Venice - only Ravenna, Milano or Bologna, on the A1.it Roma appears near Firenze for the first time. Roma is signed on the alternative route, the expressway Ravenna-Terni. (sorry for that, it is more Italian topic...so full stop there from my side concerning that issue...)
> 
> Maybe, the fact is that Italy is significantly larger country like SLO, all boarder and foreign cities are not so far away from Ljubljana, for example...(Zagreb in Sentilj or Ljubljana, Trieste, Villach, Graz in Ljubljana (no information about "H" the fact is that Ljubljana could be noted in Budapest/M7 already - I suppose that Budapest signed on the A4 near Ptuj is the longest distance signed in SLO)
> 
> Yes, anyway, the oval SLO mark in Austria is wide "spread out". At the juction Salzburg (anyway "GR and "TR" noted there as well!!!), at the juctions near Wels as well as round Vienna - A22, A23, A21,A1, S1, S2, A4 etc....


----------



## Verso

Moravian said:


> At the juction Salzburg (anyway "GR and "TR" noted there as well!!!)


Not for some time. Not my photo.


----------



## Palance

Verso said:


> Not for some time. Not my photo.


Whose photo?









Anyway, this sign (not my photo  ) shows GR and TR coming from the A1 from direction Linz.


----------



## Verso

^^ Right, it's your photo.  They still have GR and TR from Linz? How come?


----------



## hofburg

g.spinoza said:


> ^^ The last signal is too crowded, hard to read at high speed


they put 100 limit sign to make drivers read everything  there are a lot of names indeed.


----------



## keber

Yeah, we like to copy Austrian style of crowdedness. But not too much.


----------



## 3naranze

btw Gorizia-Nova Goriza, I've found this video. It regards, I guess, the particularity of 402 road between isonzo-soca river and Podsabotin: some part of the track is in Italy but available only by slovenians, there are huge fences on both side. I'm sorry, only italian audio (the driver and her fellow are dazed, probably. you didn't miss much!)


----------



## Coccodrillo

Moravian said:


> Well, I would prefer Venice signed on the H4 as well. Very important city and Mestre as the important junction hub....
> The fact is that there is the same issue on the Italian motorways A4 and A23. You leave Mestre (A4/A57...) - there are only Trieste for the A4-direction and Udine for the direction A23 + later on also Tarvisio ("A"-border/confine). No information about the capital city Ljubljana even if it is not so far away or something like that.


Usually Italian signs only show the village nearest to the border (sometimes the one in italy, sometimes not): A9 Chiasso, A22 Brennero, A23 Tarvisio, ...


----------



## hofburg

> btw Gorizia-Nova Goriza, I've found this video.


lol this video is so funny so I will watch all of their videos 
the girl said: "strada italiana in teritorio sloveno" haha :lol:

edit: I won't


----------



## mmmartin

g.spinoza said:


> ^^ The last signal is too crowded, hard to read at high speed


I don't want to brag, but I've never had problems reading the specific Slovenian and Austrian signage. Nor do most of the drivers. But occasionally one can see Italian drivers stopping in front of that signs and checking where the hell they are. :nuts:


----------



## kreden

I don't think it's too bad either, it gets repeated a few times so you can make sure you're going the right way, plus if you do go the wrong way it doesn't matter much, at the very worst your journey will be 10 kilometres longer going the other side of the motorway ring.


----------



## g.spinoza

mmmartin said:


> I don't want to brag, but I've never had problems reading the specific Slovenian and Austrian signage. Nor do most of the drivers. But occasionally one can see Italian drivers stopping in front of that signs and checking where the hell they are. :nuts:


Because we are used to rationality, and irrationality makes us uncomfortable.. :cheers:

No, seriously, signs should not level to the high-speed reading folks, but to the low-speed ones... they're the ones that can cause troubles...


----------



## keber

^^I also agree with you, this is maybe also because of the fact, that Slovenia is really small, so to make it somehow larger, you put some additional places onto signs.:nuts: 

At least at this photo there should be without last two places on blue sign, which represent the same exit (which is also the next exit).









Although this from Italian A1 at Firenze is not much better:









I'm also very fast reader (even too fast) but still I had some trouble finding right directions here on Austrian A2 before Vienna:









I think, that Slovenian signage is still much better and clearer than Austrian despite similar amount of directions on one sign.


----------



## Verso

keber said:


> At least at this photo there should be without last two places on blue sign, which represent the same exit (which is also the next exit).


Many trucks go to the industrial zone Moste (next exit), so I think it's good that it's there. OTOH, cars aren't interested in ind. zones, but Nove Jarše (the same exit). Ljubljana-sever (north) is also good information (same as Ljubljana-vzhod (east) on the green sign).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

keber said:


> I think, that Slovenian signage is still much better and clearer than Austrian despite similar amount of directions on one sign.


Definitely.

The only downside of the Slovenian signage is that it is sometimes overloaded with destinations, but other than that it is very good. Austrian signage has various issues, like font type, various font sizes, spacing, number of objects, colors, etc.


----------



## seem

hofburg said:


> lol this video is so funny so I will watch all of their videos
> the girl said: "strada italiana in teritorio sloveno" haha :lol:
> 
> edit: I won't


Do people speak Italian in that region? Is there signage also in Italian then?


----------



## keber

Many people speak Italian because of influence of Italian proximity, but otherwise there is no signage in Italian.


----------



## seem

keber said:


> Many people speak Italian because of influence of Italian proximity, but otherwise there is no signage in Italian.


Even Slovenian is influenced by Italian so much. It is harder for me to understand it than Croatian. Aslo you have what I call "singing" or "Italian accent". 

Btw do you use Slovenian names on signage?


----------



## Verso

^ What do you mean? If Italian towns are signed in Slovenian? It's both: Trst/Trieste, Videm/Udine, Gorica/Gorizia, Trbiž/Tarvisio, Benetke/Venezia


----------



## mmmartin

seem said:


> Even Slovenian is influenced by Italian so much. It is harder for me to understand it than Croatian. Aslo you have what I call "singing" or "Italian accent".
> 
> Btw do you use Slovenian names on signage?


Standard Slovenian is not influenced by Italian at all. But in border regions the dialects are influenced, in both ways, also Italian local dialect "bisiaco" uses some Slovenian words. 

For Slovenian places we use Slovenian names, for Italian in the signage both.


----------



## mmmartin

keber said:


> At least at this photo there should be without last two places on blue sign, which represent the same exit (which is also the next exit).


It's actually double exit. On the ramp you have 1st traffic light for IC Moste and the 2nd one for N. Jarše.


----------



## x-type

seem said:


> Even Slovenian is influenced by Italian so much. It is harder for me to understand it than Croatian. Aslo you have what I call "singing" or "Italian accent".


i think you couldn't understand a single word from any Croat who lives in any of these areas


----------



## seem

So that's what I wanted to ask later thanks, so u use both of them for foreign town (we use just foreign names) and just Slovenian for Slovenian towns where are also Italians (the same in Slovakia). In Istria they use also Italian so that's what I wanted to ask then. 



x-type said:


> i think you couldn't understand a single word from any Croat who lives in any of these areas


I do. I know just one Croatian person from another area than one of these (Osijek). I go there every year and we even have frieds there. You know it is not like when u speak in your native language but u can understand, even after so many years.


----------



## mmmartin

seem said:


> so u use both of them for foreign town (we use just foreign names) and just Slovenian for Slovenian towns where are also Italians (the same in Slovakia). In Istria they use also Italian so that's what I wanted to ask then.


Native (terminus technicus: autochthon) Italians don't live in Slovenia around Nova Gorica or in central Slovenia. They only live on Slovenian coast in Istria, there we use both Slovenian and Italian names on all! signage.


----------



## seem

mmmartin said:


> Native (terminus technicus: autochthon) Italians don't live in Slovenia around Nova Gorica or in central Slovenia. They only live on Slovenian coast in Istria, there we use both Slovenian and Italian names on all! signage.


Ok, I see. I haven't be in Slovenia for 2 years and and even have never spent there a single night so I didn't know. 

We use both names just on these signs (this one is a bit wrong) - http://blog.sme.sk/blog/115/194281/senec-4.jpg


----------



## il brutto

^^ In Slovene Istra we also use bilingual signs for Slovene and Croatian places in that area - Koper/Capodistria, Izola/Isola, Umag/Umago etc (or trilingual: Pulj/Pula/Pola), elsewhere just Slovene name as you can see on pics above - only Koper in Ljubljana.


----------



## hofburg

that's not just in Istra, Reka/Rijeka you see everywhere.


----------



## x-type

hofburg said:


> that's not just in Istra, Reka/Rijeka you see everywhere.


well that's Slovenian/Croatian combination. we are discussing about Slovenian/Italian combination for non Italian cities


----------



## Verso

mmmartin said:


> Standard Slovenian is not influenced by Italian *at all*.


I'm not a linguist, but I can bet you any money that standard Slovenian is influenced by all neighboring languages (which is understandable).



mmmartin said:


> Native (terminus technicus: autochthon) Italians don't live in Slovenia around Nova Gorica or in central Slovenia. They only live on Slovenian coast in Istria, there we use both Slovenian and Italian names on all! signage.


Yes, except for monolingual cities such as Ljubljana (so no signs with 'Lubiana').



il brutto said:


> ^^ In Slovene Istra we also use bilingual signs for Slovene and Croatian places in that area - Koper/Capodistria, Izola/Isola, Umag/Umago etc (or trilingual: Pulj/Pula/Pola), elsewhere just Slovene name as you can see on pics above - only Koper in Ljubljana.


Where did you see a sign for Umag? I only know about a sign for Poreč (but without 'Parenzo').


----------



## x-type

i have seen in Koper few days ago a "french-styled" traffic lights at one intersection with that tiny traffic lights at the bottom. are they present at more places in Slovenia? i find them very useful.


----------



## hofburg

you mean with tiny traffic lights at the bottom or just design itself?


----------



## x-type

hofburg said:


> you mean with tiny traffic lights at the bottom or just design itself?


tiny lights at the bottom


----------



## hofburg

*On the way to the airport*

Ljubljana Brnik airport has free wifi, so I can upload photos while waiting for my flight to Paris. 












































































































































































...


----------



## hofburg

ja, tiny lights at the bottom are everywhere. 

wtf is wrong with my photos.


----------



## hofburg

sentvid tunnel (phone accelerated the video by itself )






...


----------



## seem

Thanks hofburg. I hope your flight will be ok not like the last time  (I am going back on Sunday). I am just wondering what does "dol" mean? Is it the same as in Slovak - mine? So, Mine near Ljubjana? 

_Btw, Vodice should be on a coast. _


----------



## x-type

seem said:


> Thanks hofburg. I hope your flight will be ok not like the last time  (I am going back on Sunday). I am just wondering what does "dol" mean? Is it the same as in Slovak - mine? So, Mine near Ljubjana?


_dol_ is valley.


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> i have seen in Koper few days ago a "french-styled" traffic lights at one intersection with that tiny traffic lights at the bottom. are they present at more places in Slovenia?


Yes, and they're very old.



hofburg said:


> Ljubljana Brnik airport has free wifi, so I can upload photos while waiting for my flight to Paris.


Haha, at 14.18 a plane arrived from Paris with my sister's friends.  Nice pics!



seem said:


> I am just wondering what does "dol" mean? Is it the same as in Slovak - mine? So, Mine near Ljubjana?


Where did you see "dol" written?



x-type said:


> _dol_ is valley.


Yes, although it's an archaic expression. We call a valley "dolina" nowadays.


----------



## seem

Verso said:


> Haha, at 14.18 a plane arrived from Paris with my sister's friends.  Nice pics!


Lol, Verso, we are talking about your sister again.  



Verso said:


> Where did you see "dol" written?


I just looked at map in hofburg's post.



Verso said:


> Yes, although it's an archaic expression. We call a valley "dolina" nowadays.


I see, the same here. Valley is "dolina".


----------



## Verso

seem said:


> Lol, Verso, we are talking about your sister again.


Yeah, but that's not my sister in the Slovenia v Slovakia video. :lol:



seem said:


> I just looked at map in hofburg's post.


Ah, Dol pri Ljubljani. Yes, that's Valley by Ljubljana. "Dol" can also mean "down(wards)" otherwise.


----------



## piotr71

*@**hofburg*


> wtf is wrong with my photos.


Nothing!




seem said:


> I see, the same here. Valley is "dolina".


We say "dolina" as well. Btw. It's quite confusing to see you, Seem, in the thread including word _Slovenske_ which is not Slovakian.


----------



## seem

piotr71 said:


> We say "dolina" as well. Btw. It's quite confusing to see you, Seem, in the thread including word _Slovenske_ which is not Slovakian.


Ok, I just want to stop this off topic so come with us here - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=70116291#post70116291


: )


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> Yes, and they're very old.


do you have some more pics of them? in which cities are they present? did you have them also before 1990? i have a plenty of questions about that 

(we've gone offtopic, so reminder - my questions are about tiny traffic lights)


----------



## Verso

^^ This is the only pic I've found:









_http://www.panoramio.com/photo/1332927 by dussan_

^^ This one is in Ljubljana (there're more, but not so many). I can't remember for other cities/towns, but probably they exist elsewhere too. I think they're at least 20 years old, so it's quite likely that we had them before 1990.



And a pic of some old internally-lit signs in Ljubljana:









_http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3577347474 by anjči_


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> And a pic of some old internally-lit signs in Ljubljana:
> 
> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3306/3577347474_ccce3bb046_o.jpg
> _http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3577347474 by anjči_


thanks for photo! if you find more, please hang them here or at traffic lights' thread. i thought that only in F they use them (i'm not sure, but i think i saw them in E too). 

about lit signs - these look quite new, but the blu colour tells me they are probably at least 15 years old, right?
i'm not sure if some internally lit direction signs aer left in HR from yugoslav times.


----------



## Verso

^^ The signs on the pic are from times of Yugoslavia, because there's no HR oval by Zagreb, I remember them since always and we haven't put new internally-lit signs for a long time. They remind me of Belgium, btw.


----------



## Verso

^^ Yes, we'll probably have some of the highest fines in Europe (with average salaries).


----------



## mmmartin

Verso said:


> This is the first time I see "Pola" (Italian) written before "Pula" (Croatian)


Makes sense. Slovenian and Italian are official, Croatian not. And it's good for tourists, cause Pula and oval HR are written together. They probably don't care for Pulj and Pola.


----------



## hofburg

Verso said:


> On 1st July 2011 the general speed limit on expressways will be raised from 100 to 110 km/h! :cheers:


that's good news! also on H4?


----------



## Interstate275Fla

hofburg said:


> the rest of the photos, I didn't have time at the airport.
> 
> what it bothered me a bit, was the sign for Brnik at the motorway, first it shows 2 times just a vilage Brnik, and then the 3rd sign is "aerodrom". unclear for foreign passangers I think.


Are there plans to directly connect the A2 Motorway to Ljubljana Airport in Brnik using a spur route? From looking at the photos once you leave the motorway trying to find the airport can be a challenge, especially if you are flying out on an outbound flight. On the other hand, if you are flying into Ljubljana it can be a little tricky getting to the motorway to reach Ljubljana.

By comparision (and I don't mean to go off topic), you can easily reach Tampa International Airport right from Interstate 275 - easy access to and from Tampa Airport with better signage and no at grade intersections.


----------



## Verso

^^ The airport and Ljubljana are signed well, so you can't miss them.


----------



## hofburg

^ if 'aerodrom' is good enough.


----------



## bozata90

hofburg said:


> ^ if 'aerodrom' is good enough.


There is a pictogram.


----------



## mmmartin

^^

You can't miss the airport, because, when you leave A2 and turn right (which is well marked), you see the airport and actually you drive around it to get to the entrance.


----------



## Verso

Exactly. So, again:


hofburg said:


>


And if you wanna get from the airport to Ljubljana, there's a green sign (motorway) to turn left for Ljubljana (and Kranj):









_http://www.panoramio.com/photo/22982698 by Jon Penny_


----------



## hofburg

viaduct crni kal yesterday: 









http://www.primorske.si/Slovenija-i...aspx?sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4d35b1451dd7c3f9,0


----------



## Verso

^^ Wow!


----------



## kozorog

Viaduct Črni Kal









by *weatherphotos*


----------



## hofburg

this one is really good. inversion below.


----------



## x-type

really fabolous! i've always been regreting because we don't have such views on such magnificent viaducts.


----------



## hofburg

you have krka


----------



## x-type

yep, but we lack of such viaducts. although both bridges and viaducts have their peculiars.


----------



## Marbur66

kozorog said:


> Viaduct Črni Kal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by *weatherphotos*


That is an amazing pic! :cheers:


----------



## thyagoth

Amazing!


----------



## Fuzzy Llama

Yeah. I wish it was bigger so I could put it as my wallpaper.


----------



## Verso

Apparently this was the first fog there since the viaduct was opened in 2004. It disappeared in less than 5 minutes. There was fog once when it was still U/C. Here's a bigger version of the first pic:


----------



## Verso

phiberoptik said:


> Can someone tell me AADT for Karavanke border pass and for Šentilj border pass? And what were the biggest AADT for Šentilj before breakout of Yugoslavia?


Data for 2009: A2 at Karavanke (SLO-A) - 6,938, A1 at Šentilj (SLO-A) - 12,295 AADT. I don't know about Yugoslavia.

http://www.dc.gov.si/si/delovna_podrocja/promet/


----------



## keber

AADT for 2009: 
Šentilj 12300 
Karavanke 6940

Data for 2010 will be available in late spring this year.

Statistics for all national roads in last 10 years:
http://www.dc.gov.si/si/delovna_podrocja/promet/

There are no public available data for time before Slovenia independence.


----------



## phiberoptik

Thank you Verso, thank you keber. And regarding yu times AADT, can someone then was Šentilj biggest border crossing in Yugoslavia (in mean of vehicles) or was some border crossing with Italy?


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ It should be the Rabuiese border, almost 20000 AADT.


----------



## Verso

g.spinoza said:


> ^^ It should be the Rabuiese border, almost 20000 AADT.


Škofije/Rabuiese (SLO-I): 17,935

Fernetiči/Fernetti (SLO-I): 18,099 AADT in 2009

Fernetiči border crossing was probably the busiest already in times of Yugoslavia (if we don't count the border with Croatia), because many people went to Trieste for shopping.


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ I know very little of that period but... were Yugoslavs allowed to go to Italy?


----------



## Verso

Yes, any time and as often as pleased (and no visa needed).


----------



## keber

Depends of time. In 1950s this was no way so easy.


----------



## hofburg

drove A2, A1, H4 today.. motorways in slo need some maintenance!  winter caused some damage, 'pillars' in the middle of H4 are missing due to strong wind, road markings are scratched-out, also pavement qualitiy is lower.


----------



## Verso

keber said:


> Depends of time. In 1950s this was no way so easy.


I meant later (70s, 80s, maybe 60s).


----------



## Coccodrillo

Verso said:


> Škofije/Rabuiese (SLO-I): 17,935
> 
> Fernetiči/Fernetti (SLO-I): 18,099 AADT in 2009
> 
> Fernetiči border crossing was probably the busiest already in times of Yugoslavia (if we don't count the border with Croatia), because many people went to Trieste for shopping.


Does anybody know the number of trucks at the border crossings with Italy? Having statistics also of previous years would be better.


----------



## Verso

Coccodrillo said:


> Does anybody know the number of trucks at the border crossings with Italy? Having statistics also of previous years would be better.


There're data here for 2000-2009.

"Vsa vozila (PLDP)" = All vehicles (AADT)
"Motorji" = Motorcycles
"Osebna vozila" = Passenger cars
"Avtobusi" = Buses
"Lah. tov. < 3,5 t" = Light trucks < 3.5 t
"Sr. tov. 3,5 - 7 t" = Mid-size trucks 3.5 - 7 t
"Tež. tov. nad 7 t" = Heavy trucks over 7 t
"Tov. s prik." = Trucks with trailers
"Vlačilci" = Trailers


----------



## hofburg

just to check out my new phone camera.  
anyway there are always bad weather conditions when I'm on a motorway.


----------



## Verso

hofburg said:


>


I drove here a few hours ago.  Boring weather today.


----------



## Interstate275Fla

Verso said:


> I drove here a few hours ago.  Boring weather today.


Verso, quick question: While the speed limit is 80 km/h (50 mph) in the tunnel, I noticed an 83 just before the tunnel. Is that to let motorists know how fast they are going?


----------



## snupix

Interstate275Fla said:


> Verso, quick question: While the speed limit is 80 km/h (50 mph) in the tunnel, I noticed an 83 just before the tunnel. Is that to let motorists know how fast they are going?


Yes!


----------



## Palance

At the right side there is one similair sign but it does not show anything. The sign says "Vi vozite" (You are driving)


----------



## hofburg

I think that's because the car near the sign just have passed it.


----------



## Palance

Or that car was driving so fast that he blew up that system


----------



## keber

Actually if you drive too fast, number blinks. So it is possible, that number couldn't get caught on camera. Also in this case under the number it is written "Prehitro" / "Too fast", which is almost surely written there, but because of peculiarity of LED lightning it is shown scrambled.


----------



## Verso

Lol, hofburg, I was just searching for this thread, and when I didn't find it on the first page of H&A, I went to the second page, but you meanwhile wrote a post, so it was on the first page again and I thought where the hell is it? 



Anyway, the Jesenice bypass got operating permit after 18 years. :lol: :nuts:









http://www.delo.si/clanek/148146


----------



## hofburg

there are still sections without a permit, right?  I mean all the country.



hofburg said:


> just to check out my new phone camera.
> anyway there are always bad weather conditions when I'm on a motorway.


trees are green now. :cheers:


----------



## hofburg




----------



## hofburg

photobucket downgrades photos if you use bulk uploader :/


----------



## Verso

hofburg said:


> trees are green now. :cheers:


Is that the same VW Passat?


----------



## hofburg

heh, coincidence.  I have one closer photo, it has bosnian reg. number.


----------



## zsimi80

Reka? Never heard about this name  (Hun name is: Fiume  )


----------



## x-type

zsimi80 said:


> Reka? Never heard about this name  (Hun name is: Fiume  )


i was always wondering why don't you call it Folyó


----------



## seem

^^ Yeah pretty weird. It is also quite interisting that we don't use Slovakian for it which is Rieka, just Croatian Rijeka is used, but on the other hand we call your capital Záhreb not Zagred which doesn't make any sense to me. If I am sure there is Slovakian just for 2 towns - Záhreb = Zagreb and Soľany=Soljani. 

And if I am sure there is just one single town which in SLO which has Slovakian "translation" and it is Ljubljana=Ľubľana which sounds more or less the same.


----------



## Verso

^^ You can call it Ljubljana (Serbianized) or Lublana, if you wish (old Slovenian, West Slavic, and we all call it like that anyway, but it's a hot debate ).


----------



## SeanT

x-type said:


> i was always wondering why don't you call it Folyó


 ...so Fiume and Folyó supposed to give the same? Hm....


----------



## Puležan

Verso said:


> ...
> Anyway, the Jesenice bypass got operating permit after 18 years. :lol: :nuts:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.delo.si/clanek/148146


For which reason the Jesenice bypass (A2) doesn't have hard shoulders? I understand about the northern carriageway (the former "autoput"), but what's the reason of not building it when the second carriageway was built? :dunno:

What is the speed limit there? Last time I was passing there was in december 2006, so I don't remember...


----------



## hofburg

Vrba - Karavanke was opened from '91-'93, and it wasn't built along old road. but why there is no hard shoulders, you should ask keber.


----------



## Verso

Puležan said:


> For which reason the Jesenice bypass (A2) doesn't have hard shoulders? I understand about the northern carriageway (the former "autoput"), but what's the reason of not building it when the second carriageway was built? :dunno:
> 
> What is the speed limit there? Last time I was passing there was in december 2006, so I don't remember...


There was no northern carriageway before, the old road went through Jesenice. It doesn't have hard shoulders, because the terrain is hard (except the section on the pic). Speed limit is 130 km/h.


----------



## il brutto

SeanT said:


> ...so Fiume and Folyó supposed to give the same? Hm....


The name means 'river' - Italian Fiume, Slovene Reka, Croatian Rijeka. But Hungarians just took the Italian name instead of translating it.



seem said:


> Yeah pretty weird. It is also quite interisting that we don't use Slovakian for it which is Rieka, just Croatian Rijeka is used, but on the other hand we call your capital Záhreb not Zagred which doesn't make any sense to me. If I am sure there is Slovakian just for 2 towns - Záhreb = Zagreb and Soľany=Soljani.


It all depends on when speakers of a language learnt of certain place and which way it came. Two "weird" examples are Belgrade in Dutch=Belgrado (<Italian/Spanish) and Venice in Turkish=Venedik (<German).


----------



## mediar

*[ A2 ]
Croatian Border - Karawankentunnel
26 March 2011*

Part 1:


----------



## mediar

Part 2:


----------



## mediar

Part 3:


----------



## mediar

Part 4:


----------



## mediar

Part 5:


----------



## mediar

Part 6:


----------



## mediar

Part 7:


----------



## mediar

Part 8:


----------



## mediar

Part 9:


----------



## mediar

Part 10:


----------



## mediar

Part 11:


----------



## Zagor666

I saw Beljak often,but now i see Celovec for the first time








Next time you must stop at the Jesenice rest area,there you can eat excellent burek :cheers:


----------



## mediar

Zagor666 said:


> I saw Beljak often,but now i see Celovec for the first time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next time you must stop at the Jesenice rest area,there you can eat excellent burek :cheers:


Once I made a break there in the previous year during my previous trip, but I haven't known what to search for.


----------



## lafreak84

Thank you for your road trip report. Good quality pictures.


----------



## cinxxx

Very nice road trip report!
Just one question, I know that in Slovenia, vignettes are used. What is the role of the toll gates? Is the vignette checked there?


----------



## hofburg

no. there is still a toll system for trucks. thanks for great pics!

anyway, if you stop at a Petrol rest area, I would recommend the Pizza sandwich, it is really great. :cheers:


----------



## x-type

cinxxx said:


> Very nice road trip report!
> Just one question, I know that in Slovenia, vignettes are used. What is the role of the toll gates? Is the vignette checked there?


Lorries and buses still pay tolls, they are not in vignette system. And yes, vignettes are being checked there. Since the vignettes are used I have never drove in Slovenia being checked for a sticker at least twice


----------



## hofburg

thats just coincidence, I was never checked. There are ocasional checks at toll stations, because cars slow down there.


----------



## Verso

^^ Controls are quite common at toll stations. Nice pix, btw!


----------



## Puležan

^^Really nice road, excellent surroundings:cheers:

And Verso, thanks for explaining me the situation about the Jesenice bypass


----------



## Bad_Hafen

Also i have never been checked for vignette and i drove at least 6 times.


----------



## x-type

i go to Slovenia about once monthly, mostly at route Obrežje - Koper or Obrežje - Fernetiči. i have NEVER drove that route without checks. of course, you might not even notice them because you don't have to unusually slow down or stop your vehicle. also, i don't remember when i passed Obrežje/Bregana border crossing not seeing the people from DARS checking the vignettes at exit from SLO. very often controls indeed.


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> also, i don't remember when i passed Obrežje/Bregana border crossing not seeing the people from DARS checking the vignettes at exit from SLO.


That's logical. If Dars didn't control you, the police would, so you need Dars anyway to sell you a vignette and write you a fine.


----------



## keber

Puležan;75977169 said:


> For which reason the Jesenice bypass (A2) doesn't have hard shoulders? I understand about the northern carriageway (the former "autoput"), but what's the reason of not building it when the second carriageway was built? :dunno:
> 
> What is the speed limit there? Last time I was passing there was in december 2006, so I don't remember...











Speed limit here is 130 km/h. This motorway had many problems in its construction time. First there was severe economic crisis at the end of eighties/beginning of nineties which slowed construction a lot. Second one was geological. This is pure mountain motorway with low traffic and as such it didn't need hard shoulder according to Yugoslav regulations at that time. Also any objects were considered very expensive at that time and this section has five viaducts of considerable length (one very large). I might add that even tunnel (or maybe two) was not only planned but even under construction, which has to be demolished during building because of unstable geology (I remember seeing that tunnel in 1989). Sadly nothing can be found on the net about that tunnel(s).

This motorway is also the only one in Slovenia, that is prone to snow avalanches and has protection nets above. Also remember, that Austrian A11 on other side of Karavanke tunnel also does not have hard shoulders. Adding hard shoulders involves rebuilding all viaducts and retaining walls, which would be very expensive and with current traffic of 13-20 thousand AADT this doesn't seem to be justifiable for now.


----------



## Bad_Hafen

> didn't need hard shoulder according to Yugoslav regulations at that time.


when was it built?


----------



## il brutto

Built motorways and expressways
Hrušica-Vrba, started 1989, finished 18. 10. 1993 (last highway from Yugoslav times to be finished)


----------



## hofburg

was built in slovenia, was being built in yugoslavia.


----------



## kreden

I don't know if this was already posted here. Video of planned route of expressway between Slovenj Gradec and Velenje (3rd development axis)



_bananana_ said:


> Video predstavitev 3. razvojne osi: Velenje - Slovenj Gradec
> http://arhiv.mm.gov.si/mop/javno/3ro_velenje-slovenj_gradec/video.wmv


----------



## hofburg

I managed to take some good photos of H4, as I wasn't driving.

1. distances from Nova Gorica exit

DSC07179 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

2.

DSC07180 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

3.

DSC07181 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

4.

DSC07182 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

5.

DSC07183 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

6.

DSC07186 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

7.first rest area, second fuel station from Italy

DSC07187 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

8.

DSC07188 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

9.

DSC07189 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

10. autogrill - not very common in slo

DSC07190 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

11.

DSC07192 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

12.

DSC07194 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

13.

DSC07195 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

14.

DSC07196 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

15.

DSC07197 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

16. no more motorway

DSC07198 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

17.

DSC07199 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

18.

DSC07201 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

19.

DSC07202 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

20. Skrivsek :| where is even a bridge.

DSC07203 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

21.

DSC07204 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

...


----------



## hofburg

22. Jevscek :|

DSC07205 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

23.

DSC07206 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

24.

DSC07207 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

25.

DSC07208 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

26.

DSC07209 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

27.

DSC07210 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

28. Sumljak :| ok, this one has a dedicated bridge

DSC07212 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

29.

DSC07211 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

30.

DSC07213 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

31.

DSC07214 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

32.

DSC07215 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

33.

DSC07216 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

34.

DSC07217 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

35.

DSC07218 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

36.

DSC07220 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

37.

DSC07222 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

38.

DSC07223 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

39.

DSC07224 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

40.

DSC07225 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

41.

DSC07226 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

42.

DSC07227 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

43.

DSC07228 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

...


----------



## hofburg

44.

DSC07229 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

45. looks like some highway enthousiast from Switzerland

DSC07230 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

46.

DSC07233 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

47.

DSC07231 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

48.

DSC07232 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

49.

DSC07234 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

50.

DSC07235 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

51.

DSC07236 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

52.

DSC07237 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

53.

DSC07238 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

54.

DSC07239 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

55. A1 seen from H4

DSC07240 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

56. H4 has ended. 

DSC07243 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

57.

DSC07244 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

58.

DSC07245 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

59.

DSC07246 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

60.

DSC07247 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

61.

DSC07248 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

62. this is really nice rest area, except it's filled by trucs

DSC07249 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

63.

DSC07250 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

64. needs some renovation..

DSC07251 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

65.

DSC07252 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

66. the rest area that got good note at the recent austrian test (nextone 17 km - Lom)

DSC07254 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

67. Vienna - Trieste south railway on the bridge

DSC07253 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

68.

DSC07255 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

69.

DSC07256 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

...


----------



## hofburg

70. the highest viaduct on the old 1972s motorway

DSC07257 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

71.

DSC07259 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

72.

DSC07260 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

73.

DSC07261 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

74.

DSC07262 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

75.

DSC07263 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

76. the only sign in Slo with D oval (there must be one replica on A2?)

DSC07265 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

77.

DSC07264 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

78.

DSC07266 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

79.

DSC07267 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

80.

DSC07268 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

81.

DSC07269 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

82. Bistra is a museum

DSC07271 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

83.

DSC07273 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

84.

DSC07274 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

85.

DSC07275 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

86.

DSC07276 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

87. Podlipscica :| can you pronounce that?  

DSC07277 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

88.

DSC07278 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

...


----------



## hofburg

89. I find that too few destinations. :tongue:

DSC07280 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

90.

DSC07281 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

91.

DSC07282 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

92.

DSC07283 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

93.

DSC07284 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

94.

DSC07285 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

95. A1 & A2 at the same time

DSC07286 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

96.

DSC07288 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

97.

DSC07289 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

98.

DSC07290 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

99.

DSC07292 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

100.

DSC07291 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

101.

DSC07293 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

102.

DSC07295 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

103.

DSC07296 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

104.

DSC07298 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

105.

DSC07299 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

106.

DSC07300 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## Zagor666

Realy nice pictures kay: and the weather looks great in Slovenija :banana:
Dunje ranke-dunje ranke kruske karavanke


----------



## Bad_Hafen

I really see no difference between first part that is motorway and the second (with blue signs) that is expressway. 

What kind of arrow is this? something new? 
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5147/5633067154_f44af5a7e4_b.jpg


----------



## hofburg

there isn't any difference. Just that section Sempeter - Selo was opened in '96, and then they changed their mind  may be also due to wind, on motorway section it is very rare, on expressway very often.

That sign is used only in Ljubljana. They are from 2003.


----------



## Verso

Thanks for this extensive photo report, hofburg. :cheers: The A1 is too busy.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Verso said:


> The A1 is too busy.


Go Dutch :cheers:


A2-Abcoude-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Verso

^^ Here:


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> Go Dutch :cheers:
> 
> 
> A2-Abcoude-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


not enough space for that


----------



## hofburg

Verso said:


> Thanks for this extensive photo report, hofburg. :cheers:


can I get a link in the first post? 



ChrisZwolle said:


> Go Dutch :cheers:


:nuts: I saw photos in Dutch forum. Is this the first 12-lane motorway in Europe? anyway, that would cover up a half of Slo, so we can't go Dutch.


----------



## Verso

hofburg said:


> can I get a link in the first post?


Request in your 1,000th post approved.


----------



## il brutto

hofburg said:


> 20. Skrivsek :| where is even a bridge.
> DSC07203 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


Skriva se :lol:


----------



## keber

Verso said:


> The A1 is too busy.


Actually if people were driving better, that wouldn't be a problem.


----------



## Gereke

hofburg said:


> Is this the first 12-lane motorway in Europe?


It's only a short stretch, maybe a few hundred meters.


----------



## Bad_Hafen

nice bridge
http://s1.mojalbum.com/kokra-prvi-most-v-dolini-kokre_2988941_17465687_18888496.jpg


----------



## wkiehl101

This is my first time visiting this particular thread.
Without narrowing it to a particular picture, I have to say, many of the landscapes and natural skylines I've seen in some of the pics were stunning. A few of them (the ones lacking granite/jagged peaks) reminds me of driving through the Appalachians.


----------



## hofburg

My video of driving around Nova Gorica: 

map: http://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=Er...vAIdTRTQAA&mra=mi&mrsp=7&sz=15&via=1,2,3&z=12


----------



## radi6404

can't watch video, not available.


----------



## hofburg

audioswap is taking ages.


----------



## Falusi

Nice video, nice roads.  Not shaking at all. kay:
Did you used optical stabilizer?

The only things i recommend:
- share a map of your route
- maybe adjust the camera to rocord the center of the road for better view


----------



## hofburg

tnx. I added the map, next time the camera will be in a better position.


----------



## Trilesy

hofburg said:


> My video of driving around Nova Gorica:
> 
> map: http://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=Er...vAIdTRTQAA&mra=mi&mrsp=7&sz=15&via=1,2,3&z=12


Nice video, but I think it was too fast. I would slow it down at least 2x. 

I like how you need to drive to Italy and then back to Slovenia to get where you were heading. It is similar in Cincinnati, Ohio. If you live on the eastern side of the city the fastest way to get downtown is to drive into Kentucky and then back into Ohio.


----------



## mmmartin

Trilesy said:


> I like how you need to drive to Italy and then back to Slovenia to get where you were heading.


Hofburg went to Italy just like that, he didn't "need to". It's a nice show of schengen EU.


----------



## hofburg

well from the point where I started it s really the fastest route through italy.  but I could stay in one country as well. Also, before opening Vrtojba bypass, the fastert route Sempeter - Miren was through Italy, now not anymore.


----------



## keber

^^ In HR they don't use vignettes. You pay regulary at toll booth.


----------



## keber

There are ideas about that, but ideas only, no plans.


----------



## hofburg

Maxx☢Power;81790832 said:


> Oops, meant H4 not H5. I ended up just driving through to Šempeter instead of driving through Gorizia/Nova Gorica, no problems. I was driving to Tolmin (Metalcamp :righton: ), so I just followed road 103 all the way from there, very easy.
> 
> However, I did buy a vignette later because we drove down to Croatia for a couple of days. Took H5 and A1 to Koper, then road 11 to HR. I wanted to drive HR-A9, but my friends weren't too keen on paying for yet another vignette just so I could try it out.. Anyway, I really like H5 and A1. The last part of H5 up towards A1 was really fun to drive, and I got to drive across the wonderful Črni Kal viaduct


you meant H4 instead of H5 there again?  because H5 doesn't go 'up' to A1.


----------



## keber

*A2 Peračica - Podtabor - construction update 19.7.2011*

Dars motorway company said it will be finished at the end of August. With current pace of work (photos were taken on Tuesday 6 PM, with no workers in sight) it is very hard to believe that.

1 - Viaduct Peračica is mostly completed.









2 - 









3 - Viaduct Ljubno:









4 - Prepared signs for 100 km/h in tunnel Ljubno which I find unnecessary because it lies on straight, tunnel is only 300 m long and has hard shoulder too.









5 - 









6 - Hopefully this shame will be demolished before opening.









7 - Nothing finished in tunnel Ljubno.









8 - 









9 - Tunnel portal walls









10 - towards Ljubljana, third viaduct is finished (it is not on the photo)









11 - viaduct Ljubno, quite some works still remain to be done


----------



## bogdymol

hofburg said:


> My video of driving around Nova Gorica:
> 
> map: http://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=Er...vAIdTRTQAA&mra=mi&mrsp=7&sz=15&via=1,2,3&z=12


Great video hofburg. _Like_!


----------



## Verso

Maxx☢Power;81790832 said:


> I was driving to Tolmin (Metalcamp :righton: )


You might've met my sister then!


----------



## radi6404

Part of the raod looks very good.


----------



## Verso

I hope you don't miss anything. There were three Slovaks stealing stuff from people.


----------



## Verso

More than 4,000 fake Slovenian yearly vignettes were discovered in the port of Koper on a ship from China, intended for Austrians. :lol:

http://www.rtvslo.si/crna-kronika/cariniki-v-koprskem-pristaniscu-odkrili-ponarejene-vinjete/262440


----------



## hofburg

:lol:


----------



## hofburg

couple of photos of the bridge over Soca river. http://maps.google.si/?ll=45.976282,13.646972&spn=0.008246,0.021136&z=16


viadukt brda 005 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


viadukt brda 006 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


viadukt brda 007 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


viadukt brda 003 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

road to Brda

viadukt brda 001 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


viadukt brda 002 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## bogdymol

hofburg said:


>


Beautiful picture 

PS: speaking of bridges, a 150 m long bridge was completed today in Arad, Romania


----------



## Road_UK

I haven't been in Slovenia for a long time now, last time over a year ago. I hope I get to go there soon again, it's an adorable little country, and a pleasure to drive in. And the people are friendly and everybody speaks English...


----------



## tonylondon

every body speaks english??? how do you know that........... did you get to talk to everybody.....


----------



## tonylondon

Slovenia is indeed very beautiful country, and also some very nice food there too, enjoy the trip by the way.


----------



## Road_UK

tonylondon said:


> every body speaks english??? how do you know that........... did you get to talk to everybody.....


Ok, well the ones I spoke to anyway...


----------



## hofburg

well, those ones on this forum certainly do


----------



## hofburg

My video Tolmin - Most na Soci:

http://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=Tr...RAA;FfI7wAId8q7RAA&mra=me&mrsp=1,0&sz=15&z=15

(video from Nova Gorica - Tolmin 's coming up) 






nice area up there, though still mediteranean.


most na soci 025 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## x-type

it's not Mediteranean, it is Alpine area already


----------



## hofburg

it's mixed actually. Influence of the Adriatic sea goes up to Bovec, Most na Soci is only ~30 km from Nova Gorica, which is definitely mediteranean.


----------



## hofburg

Crni kal seen from Prosecco/Prosek near Trieste/Trst


DSC08045 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

and my video Nova Gorica - Tolmin

http://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=Ro...XyxwAId9IvRAA&mra=dpe&mrsp=1&sz=14&via=1&z=10


----------



## Falusi

1:40


Verso said:


> Wtf-photo of the day:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.panoramio.com/photo/50843078 by alen_koprivnjak


----------



## hofburg

hehe, it seems that you guys know the route. :yes:


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> it's not Mediteranean, it is Alpine area already


Mediterranean influence reaches top of Triglav:


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> Mediterranean influence reaches top of Triglav:


what do you consider as Mediteranean influence?
here nobody nowhen has talked about Mediteranean influence in, for instance, Delnice or Gospić, which are only cca 20 km air line from the sea.


----------



## keber

Temperatures, climate, vegetation. For example, Bovec is only 480 m a.s.l. and in has climate similar to Mediterranean, while Kranjska Gora on the other side of the pass has much different climate, especially in summer.
It is as in some Italian alpine valleys (from Belluno or Verrona upwards for example)
Delnice and Gospić are behind high mountain ridges and therefore don't have similar climate.


----------



## italystf

hofburg said:


> couple of photos of the bridge over Soca river. http://maps.google.si/?ll=45.976282,13.646972&spn=0.008246,0.021136&z=16
> 
> 
> viadukt brda 005 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr
> 
> The rail bridge on the background is the largest stone arch ever built in the world.


----------



## Verso

True.









http://www2.arnes.si/~oskkpi1s/jezikovna/gradiva/turizemnovinarstvo/solkanski_most.gif


















http://www.panoramio.com/photo/50820679 by alen_koprivnjak


----------



## il brutto

Apparently it's only second largest stone arch bridge (85 m), though still largest among _railway_ bridges of this kind. Syratalviadukt is mentioned as the largest one (90 m). The French version says a 1965 bridge in China is even longer, but it's apparently made of precast concrete, so I don't know what's the point.


----------



## keber

Don't know for others (except for Rabuiese -> vicinity of tight interchange with Trieste bypass is to blame), but I was wondering too, why two tunnels on Medvedjek don't have additional speed limit and on Karteljevo does have.


----------



## x-type

darko06 said:


> There is more, on Rijeka beltway the overall speed is 90 kmh (which is understandable). But in two 2x2 tunnels shortly before and after the Rijeka centar interchange, the speed limit is 70 kmh. Why? Perhaps someone in the police felt that drivers in Rijeka are inexperienced in entering or leaving the expressway and therefore slowed all the traffic?


they were thinking about 60 km/h at that curve at Rijeka bypass hno: an excuse is projected speed when there was 1+1 road, and new expressway follows its path. ok, they don't have to put 100, but 90 is in that curve more than enough. 90 km/h on the rest of the route can be 110 without any problems.

another nonsense: speed limits at on and off ramps are incredibly low in HR. averagly, they can be 20 km/h higher without any dangers on normal or wet road. extreme example is on ramp at A4 exit/entrance Popovec in direction Zagreb - i leisurely do 110 there, and limit is 40 :lol:


----------



## keber

x-type said:


> another nonsense: speed limits at on and off ramps are incredibly low in HR. averagly, they can be 20 km/h higher without any dangers on normal or wet road. extreme example is on ramp at A4 exit/entrance Popovec in direction Zagreb - i leisurely do 110 there, and limit is 40 :lol:


Similar in Slovenia. However some on-off ramps have dangerously high speed limit (like new Trebnje-west exit on A2 on LJ-ZG direction, it has 60 from Ljubljana and even 80 towards Zagreb, while even 60 is dangerous in wet conditions)


----------



## hofburg

*a day in Upper Carniola*

http://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=E6...gbwgIdPuLUAA&mra=mi&mrsp=2&sz=14&vpsrc=6&z=13

I was forced to leave the motorway A2 because of a jam, so I saw for the first time road 411. as the only alternative to the motorway it should be in much better condition, now it's like a local road. you will see on the pics.

1.

Bled 001 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

2.

Bled 002 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

3.

Bled 003 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

4.

Bled 004 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

5.

Bled 005 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

6.

Bled 006 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

7.

Bled 007 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

8. the exit Naklo is missing on Google maps. There's just Kranj-west.

Bled 008 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

9.

Bled 009 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

10.

Bled 011 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

11.

Bled 012 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

12.

Bled 014 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

13.

Bled 015 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

14.

Bled 016 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

15. A2 on the right

Bled 018 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

16.

Bled 019 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

17.

Bled 020 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

18.

Bled 021 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

19.

Bled 022 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

20.

Bled 023 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

21.

Bled 027 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

22.

Bled 028 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

23.

Bled 029 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

24.

Bled 030 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

25.

Bled 031 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

26.

Bled 032 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

27.

Bled 033 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

28.

Bled 035 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

29.

Bled 036 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

30.

Bled 038 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

31.

Bled 039 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

32.

Bled 040 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

33.

Bled 041 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

34.

Bled 042 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

35.

Bled 046 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

36.

Bled 047 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

37.

Bled 048 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

38.

Bled 049 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

39.

Bled 051 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

40.

Bled 052 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

41.

Bled 053 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

...


----------



## hofburg

42.

Bled 054 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

43.

Bled 055 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

44.

Bled 056 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

45.

Bled 057 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

46.

Bled 058 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

47.

Bled 061 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

48.

Bled 062 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

49.

Bled 063 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

50.

Bled 064 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

51.

Bled 065 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

52.

Bled 066 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

I stopped in Kranj while going back

53.

Bled 068 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

54.

Bled 069 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

55.

Bled 072 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

56.

Bled 075 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

57.

Bled 076 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

58.

Bled 077 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

59.

Bled 079 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

60.

Bled 081 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

61.

Bled 082 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

62.

Bled 084 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

63.

Bled 085 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

64.

Bled 088 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

65.

Bled 089 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

66.

Bled 090 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

67.

Bled 091 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

68.

Bled 093 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

69.

Bled 094 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

70.

Bled 096 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

71.

Bled 097 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

72.

Bled 098 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

73.

Bled 103 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

74.

Bled 104 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

75.

Bled 105 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

76.

Bled 106 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

77.

Bled 109 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

78.

Bled 110 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

79.

Bled 113 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

80.

Bled 115 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

81.

Bled 116 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

82.

Bled 117 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

83.

Bled 118 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

84.

Bled 120 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

85.

Bled 121 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

86.

Bled 122 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

87.

Bled 123 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

88.

Bled 124 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

89.

Bled 126 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

90.

Bled 131 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

91. back to littoral motorway and tropical climat

Bled 133 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Very nice and recognizable!


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## hofburg

yeah I know you were there in 2009.


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## Trilesy

Nice photos, great quality.


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## seem

What a shame that my internet is bad again and I can't see all these pictures og lovely Slovene countryside (I just love it). :bash:

Actually, I have reallised that Slovene noise barriers look like these, as we would call it "senníky" (I have no idea what is english for it) -


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## hofburg

hehe, we are trying to intergrate the motorway with a countryside :lol:


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## kozorog

*Country roads... from Slovenia. *

From A1 to Dravograd

map:http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=206413321595027437763.0004ab684821c22e60935&doflg=ptk&ie=UTF8&ll=46.430285,15.086975&spn=0.575486,1.448822&z=10&vpsrc=0

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by alen_koprivnjak


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## hofburg

thanks! I don't know what Carinthians are complaining about, this road seems to be in a good shape. anyway, there will be a motorway in that valey later.


----------



## Norsko

Is it usual with black and white painted curbs in Slovenia?


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## hofburg

yes. sometimes they are white-red.


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## keber

Norsko said:


> Is it usual with black and white painted curbs in Slovenia?


Actually no. Curbs are not painted by default.


----------



## RipleyLV

Time to spam this page with more pictures. 

*H4 Nanos - Nova Gorica*

Map of the route:









*1.* Heading from Ljubljana on A1 motorway. Approaching junction (Razdrto) with H4 expressway.









*2.* 









*3.* Nanos toll. Time 07:20.









*4.* Sign change.









*5.*









*6.* Rebernice tunnel.









*7.* Lozice viaduct.









*8.* SOS.









*9.* Next pair of tunnels.









*10.* Further view on H4 and the valley.









*11.* First exit after junction with A1.









*12.*









*13.* 









*14.* Road and Marijina church.









*15.* Notice a bit further green SOS signs, though we're on expressway with blue ones.









*16.*









*17.*









*18.* Vipavski Križ tunnel.









*19.* After this junction signs turn green.









*20.*









*21.* So it's now A4?









*22.*









*23.*









*24.*









*25.* Bazara toll, last one before the border.









*26.*









*27.*









*28.* Motorway (A4?) ends and after 700m Italian RA17 dual-carriageway starts (now it's being upgraded to motorway standarts - recent photo update can be viewed here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=83359874&postcount=2730


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## ChrisZwolle

I don't like such roads without a small right shoulder. It's common that if vehicles get in the right roadside, they veer left into the median barrier.


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## RipleyLV

^ I don't like them either. Sometimes when overtaking another truck we have a feeling that our mirrors might collide. 

Btw, Romanian oval (RO) has been added to this junction signs.

And a question to Slovenians, what does that flame sign with red crash barriers mean on A5?


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## Attus

The road Razdrto - Ajdovščina - Nova Gorica was one of my favorites even before the expressway was built  
Btw. Heading to Gorica you can drive several kilometers by turning the engine out and just letting gravitation move your car. 
Last time I was there I had problems in the Italian section (Raccordo Gorizia - Villesse, was posted in Italian thread some days ago, currently under roadworks) so that on the way back I choose the other route via Fernetti/Sežana.


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## keber

Attus said:


> Btw. Heading to Gorica you can drive several kilometers by turning the engine out and just letting gravitation move your car.


Which is very dangerous doing. You could lock your steering wheel and your brakes could stop working.









Flame signs like this with red barrier further up mean emergency passing between two motorway halves. Red barrier is easily demountable, but it is intended only for emergency services.


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## PhirgataZFs1694

bogdymol said:


> Yes, my girlfriend did take all those photos. I've learned her how to take good road pictures. The only thing I've modified at the pictures is that I have cropped them a little bit to have an aspect ration of 16:9 because it looks better. I am using a Nikon D40 camera.


Why don't you give her the forum link? We want to thank her. She did a very good report out of these wonderful motorways.


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## bogdymol

PhirgataZFs1694 said:


> Why don't you give her the forum link? We want to thank her. She did a very good report out of these wonderful motorways.


I just told her _Thank you_ from behalf of all forumers around here that like her pictures . She said _You're welcome_. 

I would give her the forum link, but she is not interested at all in what's SSC all about. I guess most girls are not interested in this kind of boyz things.


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## il brutto

bogdymol said:


> So after the tunnel right lane will exit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... or maybe not. This is the first motorway exit I see in a tunnel:


Lj.-Šentvid is crossed out because after the exit ramp you can only go left on the main road out of the city, not right towards city centre (and Šentvid). I've no idea though why this is not done yet.


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## hofburg

maybe Keber knows. I'm also interested in this... Will this interchange with _Celovska cesta_ ever have all possible directions covered or not?


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## keber

Direction toward center is not completed yet. I think money is an issue also because there is no great benefit of making it (at least not now).


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## bogdymol

*A2 motorway - part 7*

Let's continue our journey on the Slovenian A2 motorway, from the beautiful Bled to the interesting Karawanken Tunnel, the border between Slovenia and Austria.

Joining A2 motorway to Jesenice:










A2:










From now on the motorway dosen't comply with the standard since it lacks the hard shoulder:










But it has this every km or so:










A short tunnel:





































The motorway feels quite narrow here:










Last exit before the tunnel and the border:










All the directions lead to Austria:


----------



## bogdymol

*Slovenia / Austria border crossing at Karawanken Tunnel*

Approaching the old border crossing:




























The queue was at the toll booths:










A lot of caravans...










The toll was 6.50 € for my car.










After the toll booths:










Austria at 3500 m (at the middle of the tunnel):










Karawanken Tunnel - 7864 m:


----------



## bogdymol

*Slovenia / Austria border crossing at Karawanken Tunnel*

The pictures inside the tunnel are not that clear because there was not enough light...










There was some parking spaces for emergencies:




























Very big vents for air circulation. When I was passing them I felt the car shaking:




























Exiting the tunnel:



















Next pictures on the Austrian thread


----------



## PhirgataZFs1694

bogdymol said:


> I just told her _Thank you_ from behalf of all forumers around here that like her pictures . She said _You're welcome_.
> 
> I would give her the forum link, but she is not interested at all in what's SSC all about. I guess most girls are not interested in this kind of boyz things.


Ooo, thank you:cheers2:Still _we all feel bad_ using you as a communication devicehno:

If you're not going to ask for money for the communication service you can tell her that we are expecting her next photo report.:colgate:


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## bogdymol

PhirgataZFs1694 said:


> Ooo, thank you:cheers2:Still _we all feel bad_ using you as a communication devicehno:
> 
> If you're not going to ask for money for the communication service you can tell her that we are expecting her next photo report.:colgate:


I've told her that you are expecting her next photo report and she said that she will take pictures during our next road-trip. If you want it to be soon you can finance it


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## Alex_ZR

Interest thing about Karavanke tunnel is that it was open in June 1991, in the last days of Slovenia being part of Yugoslavia.


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## il brutto

1st June to be precise. It would be interesting to know how it was financed, my guess would be Slovene budget (not federal), as at that time Slovenia wasn't paying customs and other taxes to Belgrade anymore.


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## ChrisZwolle

Construction began already in 1986. I suppose the Yugoslav government paid their part.


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## x-type

I am not home right now but I think that on my YU map from 1981 the tunnel was already signed as under construction or as plan. I will check it when I arrive home.


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## hofburg

thanks for the photos. this is 1986:


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## hofburg

hm, where is this exit? I don't see any road there on the map.



bogdymol said:


>


----------



## bogdymol

hofburg said:


> hm, where is this exit? I don't see any road there on the map.


The picture was taken exactly here. I guess there is now some sort of exit for those who missed the last official exit...


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## hofburg

still, on the map it seems phisically impossible.


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## Alex_ZR

Even stamps were issued to commemorate opening of the tunnel:


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## bogdymol

hofburg said:


> still, on the map it seems phisically impossible.


I know, but believe me when I say that the picture is made there. When I will have time to process all the videos you will see this also on youtube


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## radi6404

yes, Slovenia has great quality motorways


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## snowland

Excellent


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## kozorog

by bogdymol :cheers::cheers:


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## bogdymol

^^ Yep, those are my videos. I still have to add some music from YouTube AudioSwap library but it's not working right now


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## Radish2

^^

Upload your own music instead, so we will know what is your music taste and people will not have to watch advertisments before the actual video starts.


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## hofburg

finally we have entire A2 in video. thanks. :cheers:


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## Filipdr

bogdymol said:


> ^^ Yep, those are my videos. I still have to add some music from YouTube AudioSwap library but it's not working right now


Your videos are great, please film Serbian motorways!


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## cinxxx

Filipdr said:


> Your videos are great, please film Serbian motorways!


I'm still working on convincing him to visit Serbia.

And...Great vidz Bogdy! :cheers2:


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## xanpo_pegna

great!!!!!


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## bogdymol

Radish2 said:


> ^^
> 
> Upload your own music instead, so we will know what is your music taste and people will not have to watch advertisments before the actual video starts.


If I upload my own music YouTube will block it because of copyright. This is the only legal way I know of adding music to my videos for free.

@all others: you're all welcome. Maybe I will go sometime in Serbia, but I don't have any trip planned in that country yet. I still have many more videos to process&upload from Austria, Italy, Slovenia & Hungary + yesterday I did A1 motorway in Romania and the famous Transfăgărășan route


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## keber

Dars motorway company plans to ban truck traffic from northern Ljubljana bypass. Most transit should use A1 (northern and eastern bypass), but instead too many trucks use H3 because it is 1,4 km shorter.

Any other countries have such ban?


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## ChrisZwolle

Germany has many truck bans on the Bundesstraßen network. This sometimes include motorway sections, such as A44 east of Kassel and the final section of A49 south of Kassel. Japanese urban expressways sometimes have truck bans too.


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## Verso

Good decision. There're way too many trucks on H3. They should just allow it for driving from Maribor to Kranj.


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## RipleyLV

keber said:


> Dars motorway company plans to ban truck traffic from northern Ljubljana bypass. Most transit should use A1 (northern and eastern bypass), but instead too many trucks use H3 because it is 1,4 km shorter.


Complete ban? Or during daytime? 



Verso said:


> Good decision.


:bash:


----------



## Verso

^ Ah, truckers...


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## keber

RipleyLV said:


> Complete ban? Or during daytime?


Complete ban.

Truckers have southern and eastern bypass to use, it is 1 km longer but has less traffic and less exits. Northern bypass acts like a city expressway and it is the most congested of all dual carriageways in Slovenia. Transit truck just add to chaos on densely spaced exits.


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## italystf

keber said:


> Complete ban.
> 
> Truckers have southern and eastern bypass to use, it is *1 km longer* but has less traffic and less exits. Northern bypass acts like a city expressway and it is the most congested of all dual carriageways in Slovenia. Transit truck just add to chaos on densely spaced exits.


If you have to drive from Kranj to Maribor the detour is *many* km longer!


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## Filipdr

bogdymol said:


> If I upload my own music YouTube will block it because of copyright. This is the only legal way I know of adding music to my videos for free.
> 
> @all others: you're all welcome. Maybe I will go sometime in Serbia, but I don't have any trip planned in that country yet. I still have many more videos to process&upload from Austria, Italy, Slovenia & Hungary + yesterday I did A1 motorway in Romania and the famous Transfăgărășan route


Awesome, we're waiting...:cheers:


----------



## radi6404

bogdymol said:


> If I upload my own music YouTube will block it because of copyright. This is the only legal way I know of adding music to my videos for free.
> 
> @all others: you're all welcome. Maybe I will go sometime in Serbia, but I don't have any trip planned in that country yet. I still have many more videos to process&upload from Austria, Italy, Slovenia & Hungary + yesterday I did A1 motorway in Romania and the famous Transfăgărășan route


Yes, youtube got very bad in this subject


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## Verso

italystf said:


> If you have to drive from Kranj to Maribor the detour is *many* km longer!


I don't think they will prohibit the Kranj-Maribor transit over H3.


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## hofburg

DSC07245 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr



Verso said:


>


?


----------



## kozorog

^^:nono:










*Rest area Studenec*:naughty:

Here:









by-hofburg


----------



## darko06

kozorog said:


> Peračica-Podtabor
> 
> :cheers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vir-Delo


I can still remember my first ride on the old expressway. It was back in 1967, my father was driving, and I remembered that this section of expressway in fact was a semi-motorway, because it posessed hard shoulders, except in this tunnel and viaducts on both side of the tunnel. This part of expressway also had granulated asphalt which produced a specific noise, similar of that on the Italian motorways. (Was it then a drained asphalt, first in former Yugoslavia?) However, I was stunned than that the tunnel and both viaducts didn't posess hard shoulders, because they looked to me quite narrow. I asked my dad how would the builders wide the viaducts when converting semi-motorway to the full motorway and dad answered that this probably won't be necessary.


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## il brutto

darko06 said:


> And you should build a great monument to late Mr. Stane Kavčič, the politician who made this motorway possible.


2 years ago he got a monument, not very big but apparently he's the only PM with a monument besides Boris Kidrič.



darko06 said:


> In those times, direction from Koper to Šentilj was called "Slovenika" and direction from Jesenice to Obrežje "Ilirika".


The names still exist but are rarely used nowadays, I remember the name Slovenika being used mostly for half-profile A1 on section Arja vas-Maribor, now it's always called "Štajerska avtocesta" in that part. There's also Keltika, Tolmin-Logatec I think.


----------



## hofburg

kozorog said:


> ^^:nono:
> :naughty:
> 
> Here:


wow, good observation!


----------



## hofburg

darko06 said:


> I can still remember my first ride on the old expressway. It was back in 1967, my father was driving, and I remembered that this section of expressway in fact was a semi-motorway, because it posessed hard shoulders, except in this tunnel and viaducts on both side of the tunnel. This part of expressway also had granulated asphalt which produced a specific noise, similar of that on the Italian motorways. (Was it then a drained asphalt, first in former Yugoslavia?) However, I was stunned than that the tunnel and both viaducts didn't posess hard shoulders, because they looked to me quite narrow. I asked my dad how would the builders wide the viaducts when converting semi-motorway to the full motorway and dad answered that this probably won't be necessary.


heh, and to make it possible they had to demolish the old viaducts.


----------



## darko06

il brutto said:


> 2 years ago he got a monument, not very big but apparently he's the only PM with a monument besides Boris Kidrič.


Didn't know. Read the article, and I'm glad to. :cheers:


----------



## Verso

il brutto said:


> The names still exist but are rarely used nowadays, I remember the name Slovenika being used mostly for half-profile A1 on section Arja vas-Maribor (was it H1 at the time?), now it's always called "Štajerska avtocesta" in that part. There's also Keltika, Tolmin-Logatec I think.


I think there's also Panonika (Slovenska Bistrica - Ptuj - Ormož - (Čakovec, HR), if I'm right).



hofburg said:


> Postojna was the main city back then


Postojna would still be a great focal point, if it were bigger. From there you can still go to all major directions (Rijeka, N. Gorica, Trieste, Koper).


----------



## keber

darko06 said:


> This part of expressway also had granulated asphalt which produced a specific noise, similar of that on the Italian motorways.


Črnivec - Naklo section had pavement from concrete except in tunnel and on viaducts where there was asphalt. Maybe it was different in sixties, but last decades it was pretty normal asphalt:


----------



## Verso

Wasn't there a greenish pavement?


----------



## darko06

Yes, Verso, you're right. That asphalt was greenish and granulated, from the intersection to Ljubelj tunnel to the end of semi-motorway near Brezje. From the beginning after Naklo to the Tržič/Ljubelj intersection there was concrete pavement.
I suppose that this asphalt was some kind of experiment. Maybe it was Yugoslav product, and the authorities wanted to prove it in real conditions (trucks, rain, frozement etc.).

EDIT: In fact, that greenish asphalt part was the only original asphalt pavement on the old expressway (it counts for Slovenian and Croatian parts only; I didn't drive on B&U expressway from Belgrade southwards). All other parts were paved in concrete, except the mountainous part at Višnja Gora, which was paved in small granite cubes. And if someone remembered, the first repaved part of Obrežje-Škofljica old expressway was done with the same sort of greenish and granulated asphalt (somewhere at the end of sixties). That repaved part was situated from old Otočec interchange to Kronovo.


----------



## mmmartin

darko06 said:


> I was stunned than that the tunnel and both viaducts didn't posess hard shoulders, because they looked to me quite narrow. I asked my dad how would the builders wide the viaducts when converting semi-motorway to the full motorway and dad answered that this probably won't be necessary.


I remember the debate in Slovenian parliament a few years ago. Some just wanted to repave the viaducts, saying anything else is unnecessary. Luckily it didn't end that way, even if it took soooooo many years. hno:


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## hofburg

interesting stuff.


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## darko06

mmmartin said:


> I remember the debate in Slovenian parliament a few years ago. Some just wanted to repave the viaducts, saying anything else is unnecessary. Luckily it didn't end that way, even if it took soooooo many years. hno:


I agree. Moreover, I think that you have done good by widening the tunnel too.


----------



## Verso

Previous tunnel:


----------



## italystf

Can someone explain why road signs on H4 Nova Gorica - Radzrto are blue in some places and green in other?


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## mmmartin

We've explained that many times. The first section by border with Italy is the oldest. Back then they planned a motorway. Later the built an expressway and new signage is blue. Older is green. Hopefully they'll change that soon.


----------



## keber

> Hopefully they'll change that soon.


Hopefully not. Oldest section between border and Selo is infact motorway without hardshoulder with 130 km/h speed limit. Blue "section" is an expressway with 110 km/h speed limit.


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## hofburg

+1. I like the motorway part.


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## ChrisZwolle

Is it correct that, with the opening of A2 near Podtabor, not a single motorway or expressway is under construction for the first time in Slovenia in perhaps 3 decades?


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## tom666

keber said:


> There is fixed 100 km/h speed limit before tunnel, just checked today.
> 
> Still a big stupidity, such a short tunnel on a straight with hard shoulders and having speed limit.


Let's hope it changes in 2 weeks, when all lanes will be opened.


----------



## il brutto

tom666 said:


> On Austrian TMC Ljubljana is Laibach.
> 
> Stupid or ignorant? Or both?


and a bit lazy  "Knoten" is also left in German.



hofburg said:


> [razpis] (have no idea how to translate that)


request for tender apparently, though Slovene sources translate it just as tender; bid/tender=ponudba, javno naročanje=public procurement, natečaj=competition


----------



## keber

tom666 said:


> Let's hope it changes in 2 weeks, when all lanes will be opened.


This is on new part, which has no lane closures (at least for now).
Also fixed speed limit is there to stay.


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## hofburg

AFAIK there's not a single tunnel in SLO with 130 speed limit. am I right?


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## italystf

I remember some very short tunnels (100-200m) on A2 east of LJ toward HR border. Are there lower speed limits even here, I can't remember? I think they're useless, in Italy we don't have different speed limits for tunnels, just in some curvy or step mountain motorway sections, expecially the older ones.


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## keber

^^ Actually I remember some 80 km/h speed limits for new tunnels with hardshoulders on reconstructed A3 (I didn't see any sane reason for that).

In Slovenia there is no additional speed limit for cut&covers on A2 toward Zagreb near Trebnje. Just there.


----------



## Verso

hofburg said:


> AFAIK there's not a single tunnel in SLO with 130 speed limit. am I right?


Except a couple of short cut-and-covers on A2 LJ-NM.


----------



## mmmartin

Yes, the picture with I think 60 km/h was taken before opening. 
However, I don't like the 100 km/h speed limit as well, but it's the same case as with tunnel Vodole on A1.


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## hofburg

we got some new pics from recently opened section of A2: (thanks to ska.pre from slovenian forum) :cheers:



ska.pre said:


> mesto kjer je prej potekala samo ena trasa


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Did Podtabor had a "razcep" status before?


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## hofburg

nope. I noticed that sign as well. I don't know if it's really an interchange, more likely an exit. Road 101 is only a 2-lane 'road reserved for motor vehicles'.


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## keber

ChrisZwolle said:


> Did Podtabor had a "razcep" status before?


Not from the NW direction, because there was no direct connection to Tržič. That connection was opened last year.

Compare Google maps imagery from 2006
with 2011 imagery (from Slovenian site GERK):


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## Verso

That's not a







if you ask me (same goes for Draženci on A4). Only motorways and 4-lane expressways should count IMO. But it was a motorroad _razcep_ before a motorway was built here in 2003 (except in direction Jesenice-Tržič).


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## danielstan

tom666 said:


> hofburg said:
> 
> 
> 
> On Austrian TMC Ljubljana is Laibach.
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid or ignorant? Or both?
Click to expand...

In Slovenia I see Trst / Trieste on highways.
Isn't it normal to see Laibach in Austria, if this is the name of the city in German?
Probably because the display was small they haven't used Laibach / Ljubljana.

I doubt that in Slovenian the capital of Austria is refered as Wien.


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## hofburg

danielstan said:


> In Slovenia I see Trst / Trieste on highways.
> Isn't it normal to see Laibach in Austria, if this is the name of the city in German?
> Probably because the display was small they haven't used Laibach / Ljubljana.
> 
> I doubt that in Slovenian the capital of Austria is refered as Wien.


you should correct that quoting. my post was just about an interesting fact.


----------



## tom666

danielstan said:


> tom666 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In Slovenia I see Trst / Trieste on highways.
> Isn't it normal to see Laibach in Austria, if this is the name of the city in German?
> Probably because the display was small they haven't used Laibach / Ljubljana.
> 
> I doubt that in Slovenian the capital of Austria is refered as Wien.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, hofburg not quilty. Mea culpa.
> I don't know about the standards, but in applications like these towns and cities should be written at least in local language of the place written, if not bilingual. I haven't seen yet a slovenian sign, where Wien (or any other foreign place) is written in local slovenian name only (like Celovec, Dunaj, etc.), display is never too small.  I guess you will not see Dunaj in Slovenia also because it is not a bilingual territory.
Click to expand...


----------



## x-type

now i will be the evil bitch, but it seems they still have to finnish installing middle barriers south from the tunnel, right?

and what are these signs at 1st and 5th photos indicating?


----------



## keber

Missing middle barriers will be installed in next 2 weeks after holidays. Both overtaking lanes will be closed for that, starting tomorrow. Barriers in the middle on 5th and 6th photo won't be installed because of very wide median. Toll station was planned there but then decision to introduce vignettes was met in the middle of construction so only wide plateau was left, now covered with grass.

Sign on 1st is general DARS sign indicating that "Slovenia is building motorways for you"
Sign on 5th picture indicates necessary 30 m minimum distance between vehicles. Both were installed 4 years ago when first half was opened.


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## darko06

Is the road from razcep Podtabor to Ljubelj tunnel via Tržič signed as an expressway (Hitra cesta)? Because it has no crossings, only intersections, and its geometry is as old Škofljica-Obrežje (-Jankomir) part of former B&U expressway.

HISTORICAL NOTE: In former federal state, till the middle seventies, B&U expressway started at Ljubelj tunnel. The expressway section from then Podtabor intersection to Brezje, and consequently the old road from Brezje to Rateče (or Potkoren?) via Jesenice and Kranjska gora had Yugoslav designation Road 1a (B&U expw was 1, and, curiously, road from Podsused to Kumrovec, the village where Tito was born, was 1b).


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## x-type

darko06 said:


> HISTORICAL NOTE: In former federal state, till the middle seventies, B&U expressway started at Ljubelj tunnel. The expressway section from then Podtabor intersection to Brezje, and consequently the old road from Brezje to Rateče (or Potkoren?) via Jesenice and Kranjska gora had Yugoslav designation Road 1a (B&U expw was 1, and, curiously, *road from Podsused to Kumrovec*, the village where Tito was born, was 1b).


that road is in bad condition today, but it has many denivelated intersections :lol:
it is used only to go to spa (both SLO and HR  )


----------



## Bad_Hafen

what road is that Podsused-Kumrovec?


----------



## keber

darko06 said:


> Is the road from razcep Podtabor to Ljubelj tunnel via Tržič signed as an expressway (Hitra cesta)?


It is signed as an expressway until Tržič, then it is only a good main road (mostly with denivelated intersections).
I presume it was built as such also to show western people first impression how advanced Yugoslav roads are after having done many tight and steep curves on Austrian side from Klagenfurt.

Also interesting, I saw that for Belgrade-Niš motorway Serbia still uses chainage used from BU road.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

keber said:


> I presume it was built as such also to show western people first impression how advanced Yugoslav roads are after having done many tight and steep curves on Austrian side from Klagenfurt.


It worked for me :lol: The first time I entered Slovenia was via that road, I was quite impressed with the high standard compared to Austria. It reminded me of what I've seen in the Pyrenees in Spain, Spanish main roads there are better than in France.


----------



## PhirgataZFs1694

keber said:


> In Slovenia there is no additional speed limit for cut&covers on A2 toward Zagreb near Trebnje. Just there.


How long is your longest cut&cover?


----------



## hofburg

ChrisZwolle said:


> It worked for me :lol: The first time I entered Slovenia was via that road, I was quite impressed with the high standard compared to Austria. It reminded me of what I've seen in the Pyrenees in Spain, Spanish main roads there are better than in France.





ChrisZwolle said:


> The Loibl / Ljublelj is much better on the Slovenian side than the Austrian side. Narrow and curvy in Austria, wide and smooth in Slovenia!


:lol:


----------



## keber

PhirgataZFs1694 said:


> How long is your longest cut&cover?


On A2 there is Karteljevo with 290 m (longest with 3+3 lanes and median too) and on A5 Močna with 360 m (longest 2+2).


----------



## PhirgataZFs1694

keber said:


> On A2 there is Karteljevo with 290 m (longest with 3+3 lanes and median too) and on A5 Močna with 360 m (longest 2+2).


by 3+3 you mean 2x2+2e?


----------



## kreden

2+2 with lanes for slow vehicles


----------



## x-type

Bad_Hafen said:


> what road is that Podsused-Kumrovec?


Croatian D1 and D205 (Zagreb - Zabok - Kumrovec)


----------



## darko06

hofburg said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle
> It worked for me The first time I entered Slovenia was via that road, I was quite impressed with the high standard compared to Austria. It reminded me of what I've seen in the Pyrenees in Spain, Spanish main roads there are better than in France.
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle
> The Loibl / Ljublelj is much better on the Slovenian side than the Austrian side. Narrow and curvy in Austria, wide and smooth in Slovenia!
> 
> :lol:


English Wikipedia, under the article "Loibi Pass", claims that the Loibl tunnel was started to build in 1943, 'by the command of Nazi Gauleiter Friedrich Rainer.' I assume that the Loibl tunnel was part of a projected semi-motorway between Klagenfurt (Celovec) and Ljubljana (Laibach). We all know that after the Anschluss of Austria Hitler expanded the Reichsautobahnen network with Salzburg-Wien axis and Salzburg-Villach-Klagenfurt-Graz axis (part of last axis was the tunnel near Spittal). So, I assume that, after the defeat of Yugoslavia in 1941 and annexation of northern Slovenia into the Reich, the Germans planned a subaxis, from the Reich to the Middle East, and this is today's 10th Corridor. It is known that the German praxis was to build the hardest parts at the beginning. They started to build one tube of Katschbergtunnel, tunnel eastern of Spittal and the Loibltunnel.
The Loibltunnel was finished in 1966, and, as a boy, I was driven through by my father in 1967. I remember that the tunnel was very wide, the lighting at the Austrian side was much brighter than at the Yugoslav side, and at the end of the tunnel one was embarrased how narrow and curvy the road on the Austrian side is, altogether to the Klagenfurt south suburbs. I suppose that the Yugoslav authorities intended that the Austrian authorities will build a least a half-motorway from the tunnel to Klagenfurt, but probably Austrians gave over because of huge costs for such a Schnellstrasse, and in the middle of seventies finally made an agreement with the Yugoslavs: that the European banks will finance the Karawankenautobahn, together with the Karawankentunnel. That is the reason why the old road from Brezje to Rateče was from the middle of seventies signed as Yu 1 (instead of Yu 1a before).
Chris is right: in 1967, the old B&U expw started at the southern portal of the Ljubelj tunnel and ended by Naklo, (the old road from Naklo to Ljubljana was from 1940 and had concrete pavement, however not as wide as the old expw), than started again at Škofljica and ended in New Belgrade (ok, the wide road eastern from Jankomir wasn't an expresway because it lacked divided intersections etc. etc.).

EDIT: I also think that the motorway Villach-Kranjska Gora-Podtabor is shorter than (supposed) motorway Villach-(Klagenfurt-Tržič-Podtabor).


----------



## hofburg

however it's too bad Austria never built 'Loiblpass schnellstrasse'.  maybe in the future? except for this stretch: 
http://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=Lo..._nLZAA&vpsrc=6&mra=mift&mrsp=1&sz=16&t=h&z=14

the bridge over river Drava is 2x2. was is also built before, with the tunnel?



x-type said:


> Croatian D1 and D205 (Zagreb - Zabok - Kumrovec)


some photos of that road?


----------



## keber

hofburg said:


> the bridge over river Drava is 2x2. was is also built before, with the tunnel?


No, it was built much later, I think that in 80ies.


----------



## Verso

tom666 said:


> I haven't seen yet a slovenian sign, where Wien (or any other foreign place) is written in local slovenian name only (like Celovec, Dunaj, etc.)












:troll:


----------



## Palance

darko06 said:


> HISTORICAL NOTE: In former federal state, till the middle seventies, B&U expressway started at Ljubelj tunnel. The expressway section from then Podtabor intersection to Brezje, and consequently the old road from Brezje to Ratece (or Potkoren?) via Jesenice and Kranjska gora had Yugoslav designation Road 1a (B&U expw was 1, and, curiously, road from Podsused to Kumrovec, the village where Tito was born, was 1b).


Sure? As far as I remember, road 1 run from Greece through SK, BG, ZG, LJ to Kranjska Gora and Ratece towards Italy. 1a was from Trzic to Ljubelj, and 1b from Podkoren to Korensko Sedlo (Wurzenpass).

I must have an old YU-map somewhere...


----------



## ea1969

^^
Darko06 is right. Road 1 was going to the Austrian border.

I travelled it for the first time in 1986 and the designation 1 was for the route via Jesenice and Kranjska gora.


----------



## x-type

hofburg said:


> some photos of that road?


nothing special to see. just an ordinary 1+1 road in quite poor condition with some indersections in 2 levels (old fashioned, don't expect some merging lanes like on motorways - if you remember those old multilevel intersections on H1 befor it was upgraded on motorway - it's something like that)


----------



## tom666

Verso said:


> :troll:


Ups, I forgot this one.


----------



## Verso

^^ I've also seen signs in Maribor with only "Gradec (A)" (for Graz) or in Gornja Radgona with only "Radgona (A)" (for Bad Radkersburg).


----------



## darko06

Actually, the history of modern roads through Slovenia, where is today Corridor 10 motorway, is much wider, something like that:
First modern roads in former Yugoslavia were built in the end of thirties. (Slovenia was then an administrative unit called Drava banate, in Slovenian "Dravska banovina".) In Slovenia was built modern concrete-paved road from Ljubljana to Bled, on sections from Ljubljana to Naklo (through Kranj) and from Brezje via Radovljica to Bled. (The Bled lake was one of most valuable touristic resorts in first Yugoslavia, even King Alexander and Grand Duke Paul as regent for minor King Peter II posessed their castle at the lake, built by one of famous Slovenian architects of this time, Jože Plečnik.) In Ljubljana suburbs, modern paved road was from centre to Škofljica. (Was there a plan for modern road Ljubljana-Sušak via Kočevje? Because before the IIWW, Rijeka, Istria and Karst, Postojna included, were in Italy.) So, after the WWII second Yugoslav state in 1958 opened the old expw from Jankomir near Zagreb (there was junction to the first part of B&U "expw" from Zagreb to Belgrade) to Škofljica, and in the beginning of the sixties they build missed parts of then old Bled road, from Naklo to Brezje, and the future motorway connection (at least that Yugoslav authorities thought) from Podtabor to Ljubelj tunnel, together with the tunnel (the Ljubelj road, however steep at the Austrian side, was much smoother than the road on (Pod)Koren pass). The reason why the main direction at the then Podtabor intersection was to Brezje instead of Tržič is simple. For Slovenians, the main road was from Ljubljana to Bled and not to Klagenfurt (Celovec). Therefore, I assume, the old expw from Naklo to Brezje posessed hard shoulders, and the old expw from Podtabor to Ljubelj does not. So, in let's say 1966, the B&U expw was finished in Slovenia, except the Ljubljana beltway (instead of it they built famous tunnel under the Ljubljana Old City). In fact, the terrain northeast and southwest of Ljubljana was so mountainous, and south of Ljubljana is a swamp, so called Ljubljansko Barje, that this city tunnel was most economic solution in this time.


----------



## darko06

Finishing the B&U expw in 1966 (the Ilirika corridor), Slovenians wanted to modernize the Slovenika corridor from Šentilj to Sežana. They started to build two motorway sections: from Vrhnika to Razdrto and from Hoče (Maribor) to Levec (Celje). Yugoslav federal authorities strongly opposed to these motorways and blocked Slovenians to take than cheap credits from western banks. Because of that, the southwest section was stopped in Postojna, and northeast section was finished as a half-motorway, similar to the Naklo-Brezje part of B&U expw. Popular Slovenian leader Stane Kavčič was throwed away by Tito government (similar as Savka Dabčević Kučar in Croatia or Latinka Perović in Serbia).

EDIT: Vrhnika-Razdrto and Hoče-Levec motorways weren't only planned motorways in former Yugoslavia at the end of sixties. In Croatia authorities wanted to build Zagreb-Rijeka and Zagreb-Split motorways (because of that first built section was from Zagreb to Karlovac as a part of both motorways), in Serbia authorities wanted to build Belgrade-Novi Sad motorway (after the fall of Latinka Perović they finished the first section as an 1+1 road with deleveled intersections, similar as the old Jankomir-Škofljica expw) and in Bosnia and Herzegovina they wanted to build a motorway between Sarajevo and Zenica (finished much later as an "old expw"-like road, which is today upgrading to a modern motorway). For Macedonia and Montenegro I don't have any data (Was the motorway-like road between Tetovo and Gostivar first Macedonian motorway?).


----------



## il brutto

hofburg said:


> the expressway to Croatia will be H6, H5 will end in Lucija near Portoroz. H6 -> Koper - (Smarje) - Dragonja


:nono: H6 Koper - Lucija, H5 Škofije - Srmin - Koper (Slavček) - Dragonja


----------



## radi6404

Verso said:


> Croatia probably wants both of them, but I'd say the one to Postojna/Ljubljana is more important to you, no?
> 
> Storžič can be seen from the A2.


Yes and it is a very beautiful peak.


----------



## kozorog

^^I see that you like mountains click on my signature


----------



## radi6404

I will check it out. I do not like all Slovenian alps or all mountains in general, but I lvoe such interestingly shaped pics as Storžič, the eastern Slovenian alps are very beautiful in general, but also the Triglav area is beautiful.


----------



## keber

Then you will like this picture from almost new service station (from this May) on A2 at Radovljica, taken yesterday:


----------



## radi6404

Yes, it looks impressive, the mountains and the station aswell, that is what I know Slovenia, shiny and smooth everywhere, you masters.


----------



## PhirgataZFs1694

This is frost, isn't?


----------



## keber

True, at -4°C (10 AM). However currently most other lower parts of Slovenia are in fog. We have even occasional snow in bigger cities under fog deck.


----------



## hofburg

we got a new exit sign, noise barrier and a new alsphalt: :cheers:

24112011286 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


24112011287 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## Nordic20T

^^ All looks very good, but please tell me, that there actually *IS* something that needs to be protected from noise behind the noise barrier - not like in Austria.


----------



## Verso

^^ Yes, there're houses.


----------



## radi6404

Great landscape and motorway, where is it?


----------



## hofburg

by "_we_ got", I meant Nova Gorica area. It's H4 right after the border.


----------



## kozorog

Tunnel-Cenkova on A5,609m









by-jalajalagabo


----------



## radi6404

Now that looks typically Slovenia


----------



## kozorog

H4 and Vipava valley:cheers:










by-Karmen Smolnikar


----------



## hofburg

Nice photos Kozorog. Actually at that part there's no more Vipava river. Mocilnik valley.


----------



## rosulje

Nice photos!!!!!

Loooks :master:


----------



## Attus

There's a sign at the median, red rectangle, and a drop shaped black and white thing inside. What does it mean? When I drove in Slovenia I saw a lot of such signs and it made me almost crazy that I did not understand them.


kozorog said:


> Tunnel-Cenkova on A5,609m
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by-jalajalagabo


----------



## Verso

^^ It indicates a place where crash barriers are easily removed in case of emergency (they are coloured red).


----------



## Attus

I see, thanks.


----------



## kozorog

Above building site of a tunnel Markovec in Koper


















by-Master85-Panoramio


----------



## Verso

Western Maribor bypass (G1-1):









http://www.ponting.si/?lang=sl#galerija_studenci


----------



## Foolish Farmer

Wow it looks amazing!


----------



## Verso

It looks funny.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It looks like a motorway until you realize this picture is about it


----------



## Verso

Hehe, yes, it's just ~1 km grade-separated. I think they initially planned the whole western bypass like that. But then again, it's just 2-km-long (or 3 km, if you add the part to _Lackova cesta_).


----------



## Bad_Hafen

It looks dangerous for bikers


----------



## niskogradnja

Bad_Hafen said:


> It looks dangerous for bikers


Not at all. It is very safe. I lived for a while in MB.


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> Western Maribor bypass (G1-1):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ponting.si/?lang=sl#galerija_studenci


What does the G prefix stand for? Isn't H the prefix for expressways?


----------



## niskogradnja

^^

G- glavna cesta (main road)

This one is a 4-lane main road.


----------



## italystf

niskogradnja said:


> ^^
> 
> G- glavna cesta (main road)
> 
> This one is a 4-lane main road.


All main (national) national roads have this prefix? In km signs they put only the number. And I remember a number around 600 near Nova Gorica. Why they should have so many numbered roads in a country with that size?


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> All main (national) national roads have this prefix? In km signs they put only the number.


Yes, only motorways (A-roads) and expressways (H-roads) appear with prefixes everywhere, others not.



italystf said:


> And I remember a number around 600 near Nova Gorica.


That was a "regional road" (_regionalna cesta_) of the III. (third) order (e.g. R3-613).



italystf said:


> Why they should have so many numbered roads in a country with that size?


You mean so many different classifications (A, H, G, R, LC...)? Why not? There's a big difference between motorways, expressways, main roads, regional roads and local roads (perhaps just orders are too much), regardless of a country's size.


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> You mean so many different classifications (A, H, G, R, L)? Why not? There's a big difference between motorways, expressways, main roads, regional roads and local roads (perhaps just orders are too much), regardless of a country's size.


I don't mean many classifications but many roads classificated. If I saw a number above of 600 I though there are more than 600 *national* roads, that would be pretty much considering in Italy the highest number is 716. But if that number includes regional roads it's more reasonable.


----------



## keber

In following link there are all national roads in Slovenia, divided with all the sections:
http://www.dc.gov.si/fileadmin/dc.gov.si/pageuploads/Novice_OJ/pdf_datoteke/Seznam_odsekov_2008.pdf
We have motorways, expressways, main roads of first and second order and regional roads of first, second and third order - all managed by state. Everything else are local roads, managed by respective municipalities.


----------



## hofburg

Maribor western bypass is a national road, but it was built by Dars (state motorway company) as a part of National Motorway Construction Programme from 1994.


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> I don't mean many classifications but many roads classificated. If I saw a number above of 600 I though there are more than 600 *national* roads, that would be pretty much considering in Italy the highest number is 716. But if that number includes regional roads it's more reasonable.


Ah, now I know what you meant. By the way, G-, R- and LC-roads all have different numbers, so there's for example only G1. R1 and LC1 don't exist. The lowest number of a regional road is 201 (R1-201), and there're 21 G-roads: from G1-1 to G1-12 (G1-3 and G1-10 don't exist any more) and from G2-101 to G2-112 (G2-110 doesn't exist).


----------



## il brutto

It's similar numbering system like in hotels or uni. buildings where 712 means room #12 on 7th floor, not that the building has 712 rooms.


----------



## Nolt

I took this photo today here in Novo mesto, there was more traffic going to Slovenian border so i had to wait cars from the other side so i could catch the light effect.

A "thanks" would be welcome, since i almost froze shooting this.

:cheers:


----------



## hofburg

very nice! thanks


----------



## Albinfo

Verso said:


> Western Maribor bypass (G1-1):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ponting.si/?lang=sl#galerija_studenci


what is this in red?


----------



## Chilio

^^ bicycle lanes


----------



## phiberoptik

Albinfo said:


> what is this in red?


blood of foreign workers on construction site :troll:


----------



## tom666

phiberoptik said:


> blood of foreign workers on construction site :troll:


... lucky enough to have job at all.


----------



## Višnja1

phiberoptik said:


> blood of foreign workers on construction site :troll:


This is a lot of blood from Croatian workers hno::bash:".I can't believe that I descended on his level"


----------



## x-type

Why Croatian workers?


----------



## Višnja1

^^Quite a bit people from Croatia works in Slovenia, this is fact. At least 5 Croatian construction workers lose life on building sites in Slovenia every year.At last was largest accident in Celje where are built market place two workers from Croatia lost their life,itd. I Justify for expressed words, but I only repeated already expressed words. I would never say that blood of workers is on that picture, it is too sensitive.:bash:


----------



## x-type

had no idea about that :dunno:


----------



## radi6404

I travelled through great Slovenia when returning from Bulgaria this time, I really like the country and might move there sometime. The A2 motorway from Croatian Border to Ljubliana is one of the smoothest motorways in europe, the asphalt is very smooth and even and also very dark and quiet, it just feels like you are gliding, not a lot of motorways have the rating strumatic, but this motorway is strumatic for sure, it is as good as the Struma motorway and driving or travelling on it when you are tired and looking at the very steep hills close to the border is a truly psychedelic experience.


----------



## seem

And what about crash barriers? Shiny enough?


----------



## radi6404

The crashbarriers are fairly shiny and don't have sharp edges so they rule aswell, you have to thank me that I praise your motorway that much.


----------



## Verso

^^ Slovensko ≠ Slovenija


----------



## radi6404

What does that mean?


----------



## Verso

Slovensko = Slovakia (location of @seem).


----------



## radi6404

and what has that to do with my posts?


----------



## Verso

^^


seem said:


> And what about crash barriers? Shiny enough?





radi6404 said:


> The crashbarriers are fairly shiny and don't have sharp edges so they rule aswell, you have to thank me that I praise *your* motorway that much.


@seem's motorway?  EOT


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> Slovensko = Slovakia (location of @seem).


and now you will say that kangaroos don't live in Austria. yeah right.


----------



## Verso

Well, Slovensko can also mean Slovene lands.


----------



## radi6404

So just thank me for the positive words about Slovenian motorways and that's it.


----------



## seem

Thank you, our motorways are great indeed!


----------



## kozorog

radi6404 said:


> So just thank me for the positive words about Slovenian motorways and that's it.


Thank you, 'radi te imamo' :lol:.You are not the only one that had praised Slovenian highways :cheers2:


----------



## kozorog

Some photos from A1



















Tunnel-Dekani,2182m









Tunnel-Kastelec,2292m

















by-jalajalagabo


----------



## hofburg

*Roads of Kras*

^nice.

*Roads of Kras*

map: http://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=Vi...Id6tbPAA&vpsrc=6&mra=mi&mrsp=5&sz=13&t=m&z=11

some photos from my Kras tour

1. starting in Gorica/Gorizia

Kras 002 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

2.

Kras 003 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

3. direction Trst/Trieste

Kras 007 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

4. on Kras plateau _

Kras 011 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

5. Doberdob lake

Kras 015 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

6.

Kras 030 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

7.

Kras 017 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

8.

Kras 020 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

9. Leaving SS55

Kras 029 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

10.

Kras 033 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

11.

Kras 035 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

12. [SLO]

Kras 036 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

13.

Kras 038 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

..._


----------



## hofburg

14.

Kras 041 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

15.

Kras 042 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

...


----------



## hofburg

16.

Kras 044 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

17.

Kras 050 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

18. going right

Kras 052 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

19. fresh road

Kras 056 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

20. Nanos in the distance

Kras 059 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

21.

Kras 061 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

22. joining road 204 (main road Nova Gorica - Sezana - Koper)

Kras 064 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

23.

Kras 065 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

24.

Kras 067 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

25.

Kras 072 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

26. motorway A3 on the bridge

Kras 073 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

27.

Kras 075 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

28.

Kras 077 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

29.

Kras 079 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

30. Fernetici

Kras 086 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

31.

Kras 087 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

32. 

Kras 090 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

33.

Kras 095 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

34.

Kras 097 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

35.

Kras 101 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

36.

Kras 103 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

37.

Kras 104 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

38.

Kras 106 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

39.

Kras 108 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

40.

Kras 109 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

41.

Kras 111 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## radi6404

Now this looks incredible, great crashbarriers.


----------



## hofburg

42.

Kras 112 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

43.

Kras 113 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

44. Kras plateau falls into the Adriatic sea 

Kras 117 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

45.

Kras 118 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

46. Trst/Trieste (few months ago)

DSC08032 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## seem

^^ Great view  

Thx for these photos but next time could you take some more pics of villages in Slovenian Karst? Countryside in this part of Slovenia is beautifle and have this great mediterranean feeling. 

Btw, I guess Radi is moving to Slovenia because of shiny crash barriers.  ; )


----------



## hofburg

47.

Kras 123 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

48.

Kras 124 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

49.

Kras 127 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

50.

Kras 128 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

51.

Kras 134 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

52.

Kras 139 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

46.

Kras 140 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

47.

Kras 141 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

48. Julian Alps [SLO] (again) 

Kras 149 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

49.

Kras 157 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

50.

Kras 159 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

51.

Kras 162 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

52.

Kras 164 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

53. [SLO]

Kras 167 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

54.

Kras 168 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

seem said:


> ^^ Great view
> 
> Thx for these photos but next time could you take some more pics of villages in Slovenian Karst? Countryside in this part of Slovenia is beautifle and have this great mediterranean feeling.
> 
> Btw, I guess Radi is moving to Slovenia because of shiny crash barriers.  ; )


there's one:  but I normally don't focus on villages. they seem normal to me. 


Kras 060 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## Zagor666

47-48-49 :cheers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTuQ_ihzVAc&list=UUUCUalYhIUJE94PdIy0CrPA&index=1&feature=plcp


----------



## radi6404

And here are some pics by me of the beautiful Slovenia


----------



## Verso

^^ Nice mountains, but we soon expect much more snow. :cheers:


----------



## radi6404

Do you have skinny girls in Slovenia, I allready have two reasons to considering moving there, that would be another one.


----------



## il brutto

No they're all fat, I'd never go to Slovenia because of girls.


----------



## radi6404

as if, I saw some there.


----------



## GROBIN

^^

No nice girls in SLO & other ex-YU countries ?  How are they if compared to PL, SK, UA or CZ girls ?  :lol:

Anyway, when looking at the pics, former YU really attracts me. Especially SLO, HR, BIH and MK. Must be a nice - certainly not boring - drive.


----------



## hofburg

^ neither girls or motorways you can't generalise on ex-YU. Slovenia and Croatia might have the most similarities, but here things end. heh, except the colour of the direction signs.

ps. are you french?


----------



## radi6404

Croatia and Slovenia might have similarities on motorway signage and stuff, but the asphalt and markings and the fense of the motorways are different, the Slovenian asphalt is some of the best asphalt types I know, it is very soft, rubber like and very quiet, exactly how asphalt should be. Bulgarian Struma motorway asphalt is the same, the Croatian asphalt is hard and has waves which is not very nice. About girls I don't know though.


----------



## Verso

geor said:


> I am sure that you had several crashes due to wind gusts.


We have them constantly. Yesterday:









http://www.rtvslo.si/okolje/foto-snezenje-in-burja-bosta-cez-noc-ponehala-previdno-na-cestah/276654


----------



## geor

Verso said:


> We have them constantly. Yesterday:
> 
> 
> http://www.rtvslo.si/okolje/foto-snezenje-in-burja-bosta-cez-noc-ponehala-previdno-na-cestah/276654http://www.rtvslo.si/okolje/foto-snezenje-in-burja-bosta-cez-noc-ponehala-previdno-na-cestah/276654


Could you get some details? Gust speed at the moment of overturning would be very interesting. I suppose that happened in Vipava valley


----------



## keber

What details? There were numerous, mostly by drivers who don't obey ban.

And lateral accidents don't happen so often - actually I never heard of them - if they are, they are mostly minor crashes as when roads are full of snow.


----------



## geor

keber said:


> What details? There were numerous, mostly by drivers who don't obey ban.
> 
> And lateral accidents don't happen so often - actually I never heard of them - if they are, they are mostly minor crashes as when roads are full of snow.


I looked at the moment DARS web site and noticed they changed parameters for closing MW for cars (from 151km/h to 144km/h). I think that is safer solution. 
As for lateral accidents, that is your opinion. I think that accidents on the viaducts & bridges could be very dangerous. and from that point of view it is necessary to have more safety reserve.


----------



## F81

But if the problem is lateral accident, wouldn't be enough to restrict traffic to the right lane in case of strong wind? It could move your car to the hard shoulder or to the left one, but no cars would be coming there.


----------



## keber

geor said:


> . I think that accidents on the viaducts & bridges could be very dangerous.


less dangerous than on snowy road. Do we close roads in case of snow? No.


----------



## geor

F81 said:


> But if the problem is lateral accident, wouldn't be enough to restrict traffic to the right lane in case of strong wind? It could move your car to the hard shoulder or to the left one, but no cars would be coming there.


Yes, in Croatia that is one of the possible procedures when there are combination of adverse weather conditions, Bora & snow. On MW A6 they direct 3 traffic flows to the one left lane which is windshelded.


----------



## Verso

H4 Ajdovščina - Nova Gorica:


----------



## italystf

Which Italian cities and villages are signposted in Slovenia? I recall Trieste/Trst, Gorizia/Gorica and even Udine/Videm (on H4).


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> Which Italian cities and villages are signposted in Slovenia? I recall Trieste/Trst, Gorizia/Gorica and even Udine/Videm (on H4).


Rabuiese on H5 (but it says only Rabujez), Bazovica/Basovizza, Monrupino (but says only Repentabor), Trbiž/Tarvisio, perhaps some more villages.


----------



## hofburg

Verso said:


> H4 Ajdovščina - Nova Gorica:


:nuts: you can see how he slowed down for the radar at Sempas rest area. H4 doesn't have tight curves (except one between Sempeter and Vogrsko and of course near Razdrto) but that driving is insane.



Verso said:


> Rabuiese on H5 (but it says only Rabujez), Bazovica/Basovizza, Monrupino (but says only Repentabor), Trbiž/Tarvisio, perhaps some more villages.


Uccea.  there might be something in Brda, like Steverjan (San Floriano) I think but not sure.

found one photo from Bovec:









http://www.panoramio.com/user/3646601?with_photo_id=63159660


----------



## Verso

hofburg said:


> :nuts: you can see how he slowed down for the radar at Sempas rest area. H4 doesn't have tight curves (except one between Sempeter and Vogrsko and of course near Razdrto) but that driving is insane.


I think the video is actually sped-up.


----------



## hofburg

Verso said:


> I think the video is actually sped-up.


of course but you can see sped-up speed slowing down.


----------



## Verso

Yes, but I don't think he drives that fast, trucks are quite fast as well.


----------



## kreden

Verso said:


> Bazovica/Basovizza


I allways remember that because of Srečko Prijatelj and his famous action. :nuts:


----------



## Verso

hofburg said:


> Uccea.


Učja/Uccea:









http://www.panoramio.com/photo/62892868



kreden said:


> I allways remember that because of Srečko Prijatelj and his famous action. :nuts:












Bonus


----------



## hofburg

Verso said:


> http://www.panoramio.com/photo/62892868


this guy is like photo wikipedia of SLO roads.


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> Učja/Uccea:


This village is currently almost unhabitated; the phone landline was cut off and mobile phones don't work. I remember few years ago 7 people lived there, don't know if some elderly remained.


----------



## geor

These two pictures show inconsistency as for distance signalization in Slo. Question is, is this new or old one?



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## Verso

^^ The first one is from 1989.



hofburg said:


> this guy is like photo wikipedia of SLO roads.


Yeah. :lol:



italystf said:


> This village is currently almost unhabitated; the phone landline was cut off and mobile phones don't work. I remember few years ago 7 people lived there, don't know if some elderly remained.


I've always wanted to go there, it seems like an interesting valley.


----------



## hofburg

Verso said:


> I've always wanted to go there, it seems like an interesting valley.


Resia valley is connected to that road. Uccea does seem pretty poor on street view. but apparently these 7 people deserve a sign in SLO. hehe


----------



## Verso

http://g.co/maps/tpv6h

milica :lol:


----------



## il brutto

LOL, fantastic


----------



## hofburg

:ancient: 

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=84937396&postcount=646


----------



## il brutto

Yeah when I retire I'll go thorugh all of SSC to find all potentially interesting threads


----------



## PhirgataZFs1694

How wide are expressway lanes in Slovenia? 3.5m?


----------



## Verso

hofburg said:


> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=84937396&postcount=646


Yeah, it was familiar.



PhirgataZFs1694 said:


> How wide are expressway lanes in Slovenia? 3.5m?


Yes, except on H3 where they are 3.75 m (including hard shoulders).


----------



## Gyorgy

Profile for mayor roads and motorways:


----------



## hofburg

bora 2 weeks ago on H4:


2 007 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


2 010 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


2 011 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

poor light-blocking-things 


2 013 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


2 014 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


2 037 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## Verso

^^ Interesting photos.



Verso said:


> Yes, except on H3 where they are 3.75 m (including hard shoulders).


Oh, and H7 where they are 3.25 m.


----------



## geor

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

According to new EU regulations above type of set up on VMS will be avoided.

That will be like this below:




Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Or maybe this one:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Croatia is already working on that.


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> http://g.co/maps/tpv6h
> 
> milica :lol:


What's funny about? BTW, this area get SV few days ago.


----------



## hofburg

^it's not slovenian.
what is SV?


----------



## geor

italystf said:


> What's funny about? BTW, this area get SV few days ago.


Milica is very popular female name in these regions


----------



## Verso

^^ Not in Slovenia. "Milica" (militia) is Slovenian, but that's from Yugoslav times, now it's police (policija). Is "SV" Slovenska vojska (Slovenian Army)?


----------



## hofburg

ah sorry, didn't know. why would SV be going there?  to correct that sign? :lol:


----------



## Verso

Road heart:


Straßenherz in den slowenischen Weinbergen by textbox, on Flickr


----------



## italystf

SV: street view. Until recently this part of Friuli wasn't covered.


----------



## Verso

Oh, street view. Yes, that area is now almost completely covered. We're still complicating with permissions to Google.


----------



## Verso

http://g.co/maps/awy4q

Sloveni*j*a signed in Italy. Turn around and there's an ad for Atomik Harmonik in Italy. :lol:


----------



## keber

Old, old ...
This was cancelled more than 2 years ago.


----------



## Verso

Now I remember. Sorry for OT, but where will be HSR for Italy then?


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> Now I remember. Sorry for OT, but where will be HSR for Italy then?


There are very long term plans for a Trieste - Ljubljana HSR connection with a long tunnel under Carso/Kras. It won't be ready before 2040 I think but 'NO TAV' activists are already giving away fliers in the street of Trieste :lol:
HSR Trieste - Venice will be build before but the route hadn't already be decided.


----------



## keber

Verso said:


> Now I remember. Sorry for OT, but where will be HSR for Italy then?


For your eyes only: 
page 57 
presentation 

Yes, it is planned to parallel A3 motorway in almost whole length. Plan includes 15 km long tunnel between Slovenia and Italy. As for financing, god knows.


----------



## Verso

Didn't know you had determined the new HSR to Italy. Congrats.


----------



## keber

There were much more people involved into that. Ofcourse Italy designed their part.


----------



## hofburg

very good! so once when driving on A3 you'll have the same feeling as you have on some french motorways when TGV comes - that you're driving backward.


----------



## IpvNet

I have 2 questions: 
1. Road 202 : Ratece- Hrusica : how is it? Any good ? 
2. Can you drive from Ratece to the point where Slovenia-Italy-Austria meet? Well, at least close to the point? Hows the road? 
Anything interesting along these routes ? 
Any tips/advices would help.


----------



## italystf

IpvNet said:


> I have 2 questions:
> 1. Road 202 : Ratece- Hrusica : how is it? Any good ?
> 2. Can you drive from Ratece to the point where Slovenia-Italy-Austria meet? Well, at least close to the point? Hows the road?
> Anything interesting along these routes ?
> Any tips/advices would help.


You can't drive to the tripoint, there are just paths. Or you can take the cablecar from the Austrian side.


----------



## IpvNet

Ok, thanks. I'll look into that


----------



## Verso

IpvNet said:


> Road 202 : Ratece- Hrusica : how is it? Any good ?


It's 202 only in the beginning, then it's 201. It's fine.


----------



## IpvNet

Thanks Verso . Marked it already


----------



## kozorog

A2, near Otočec


----------



## kozorog

*Tunnel Markovec 20.04.2012*







































































































































by-Moji zapiski


----------



## arhi

Kozorog thank you very much for photos.


----------



## Bad_Hafen

where is that tunnel?


----------



## x-type

Bad_Hafen said:


> where is that tunnel?


between Koper and Izola


----------



## keber

They still need about 5 weeks (about 150 meters) to dig through southern tube - northern was dug through in January. Opening is planned before 2013 summer.


----------



## YU-AMC

Is Slovenia close to 1000Kms of Motorways?


----------



## hofburg

1000 km would be 2 times current network. there wouldn't be a single village without a motorway acces then.

:lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Bič, not Bic. 

Č


----------



## italystf

ChrisZwolle said:


> Bič, not Bic.
> 
> Č


Yup, now I got it. 
It's pronunciated a like "beach"... or something else in English. :lol:


----------



## keber

"i" in Slovenian is pronounced in English like "ea" and not like "i" (yes it is a difference).


----------



## italystf

Yes, but the pronunciations of beach and b1tch are very similar.

Also the Austrian lake of Faaker has a funny pronunciation.


----------



## luckyluk

To me beach and bitch sound very different.


----------



## Stahlsturm

keber said:


> Motorway agency still didn't install deflective guardrails in all tunnels (although their efficiency is questionable).


I think they rather have them crash in the emergency booth than bounce off the guardrail back into rolling traffic and cause even more damage and / or death.


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> Yup, now I got it.
> It's pronunciated a like "beach"... or something else in English. :lol:


On a side note, "bič" means "whip" in English.

Btw, both tubes of the Markovec tunnel (H6 Koper-Izola) are bored now! :cheers: It will take about a year until they will be ready for traffic (electric equipment).


----------



## x-type

keber said:


> "i" in Slovenian is pronounced in English like "ea" and not like "i" (yes it is a difference).


but Bič is read exactly like "bitch", not like "beach".


----------



## pmaciej7

Izola bypass. Map taken from this post.


----------



## pmaciej7




----------



## pmaciej7




----------



## Verso

Polish road freaks!  Looks like someone had to come from Poland to take pics of Slovenian H6.  Great photos, hands down. :cheers:


----------



## sqjam

Nice photos! Thx 

Video news about Markovec tunnel 
http://tvslo.si/predvajaj/tudi-druga-cev-predora-markovec-prebita/ava2.136462351/


----------



## danielstan

Verso said:


> On a side note, "bič" means "whip" in English.


Surprising:
in Romanian we have 'bici' meaning "whip" in English and pronounced like "bitch"!

Is there a similar word in Serbo-Croatian?


----------



## Bad_Hafen

^^it is slavic word that found its way to Romanian language, but Romanian language is full of Slavic words


----------



## hofburg

big altitude difference between H4 and A1:



kozorog said:


> _H4, Rebernice_
> 
> 
> Road on the hill by Karmen Smolnikar, on Flickr


----------



## Verso

^^ That photo is epic. It looks like a mountain road.


----------



## RipleyLV

:applause:


----------



## keber

Verso said:


> ^^ That photo is epic. It looks like a mountain road.


It is also designed as such - as a mountain expressway.

As for H6 - I didn't know there are still land expropriation problems. And construction of last remaining part towards Portorož/Lucija is still few years away.


----------



## italystf

keber said:


> It is also designed as such - as a mountain expressway.
> 
> As for H6 - I didn't know there are still land expropriation problems. And construction of last remaining part towards Portoro&#158;/Lucija is still few years away.


Do they really need two parallel expressways (H5 and H6)?


----------



## Puležan

italystf said:


> Do they really need two parallel expressways (H5 and H6)?


From my point of view, it wouldn't be much of a problem if only H6 was planned, and connected to croatian A9 (route via road 11/future H5 is cca 15 km, while via 111/H6 is cca 23 km), but the plan was set long ago to make an expressway from Kaštel/Dragonja border crossing to Koper.

I don't know if the coastal road 111 could be so congested if all coastal traffic along with the transit one (Istra-Koper) goes on it. I mean, could the future H6 alone be sufficient for both local and transit traffic? :dunno:


----------



## keber

H6 is definitely needed as it is meant for traffic on the coast which is significant even outside tourist season and it will end in Lucija. 

H5 is for transit traffic toward Croatia only. Now you could say it would be better to extend H6 to Croatian border and connect onto their A9 (which would be pretty difficult because of terrain). But traffic data suggest that in tourist season such H6 would be very congested, especially between Koper and Izola. Already now current H6 around Koper reaches 40.000 AADT (in season weekends its about double number). After Croatia joins EU and Schengen, traffic will increase even more, especially transit traffic. Two parallel expressways may be not needed right now, but in 10 or 15 years this will almost certainly change.

EDIT: 2011 traffic data for Slovenia:
http://www.dc.gov.si/fileadmin/dc.gov.si/pageuploads/Stetje_prometa/Stetje2011.xls


----------



## Puležan

keber said:


> After Croatia joins EU and Schengen, traffic will increase even more, especially transit traffic. Two parallel expressways may be not needed right now, but in 10 or 15 years this will almost certainly change.


True. Today, there's high traffic volume only during the summer, because of many tourists coming to slovenian coast and Istria, but in couple of years, we'll be travelling much more to Koper and Trieste, when there wouldn't be any border controls and customs formalities, so shopping will be easier  You can compare your future H5 (its cost/benefit ratio) with our A9 - here the traffic volume rises every year because people gets used to go on A9 even on shorter distances between Pula and more northern cities, so its construction will be payed off pretty easy (but we have ticketing system, which brings money directly).


----------



## italystf

Pule&#158;an said:


> True. Today, there's high traffic volume only during the summer, because of many tourists coming to slovenian coast and Istria, but in couple of years, we'll be travelling much more to Koper and Trieste


If Slovenes will introduce cheaper (weekly) vignettes.


----------



## italystf

Double post, please delete


----------



## Broccolli

italystf said:


> If Slovenes will introduce cheaper (weekly) vignettes.


For me the price is great.... if you dont like it rent a boat 

That highways through Koper will be bad ass, i cant wait that all this will be finished especially Markovec Tunnel:cheers: And when the Markovec tunnel will be completely finished and opened for traffic, we will be able to exploit the coast between Koper and Izola for turism .
But must say now when the highway on croatian side is practicaly finished (here i mean Istarski ipsilon) it is great to travel, because when you cross the slovenian/croatian border (and here i mean out of the turist season) it is a feeling that you came to the moon of something, almost no traffic, no that god damn truck convoys, its pure road heaven. We have summer house near Pula so im there very often. And i must say that the price is very acceptable i think its about 4 euros from Slovenian border to Pula.


----------



## Puležan

Broccolli said:


> For me the price is great.... if you dont like it rent a boat
> ...
> But must say now when the highway on croatian side is practicaly finished (here i mean Istarski ipsilon) it is great to travel, because when you cross the slovenian/croatian border (and here i mean out of the turist season) it is a feeling that you came to the moon of something, almost no traffic, no that god damn truck convoys, its pure road heaven. We have summer house near Pula so im there very often. And i must say that the price is very acceptable i think its about 4 euros from Slovenian border to Pula.


15 € for the weekly vignette is a little bit too much (for someone who just passes on Koper bypass going to Trieste) 

A9 is in full profile from SLO border to Pula (except Mirna bridge and Limska draga viaduct) and it costs 37 kn (cca 5 €), but you can take the Vodnjan-north exit and spare cca 1 €  Concerning trucks on that route - there will never be so much trucks because it's not a transit route (Istria is a peninsula with Pula as only large city), so only cars, trailers and buses can be seen there...

But let's get back on topic - what's the possibility of making H5 in half-profile first? It would be cheaper and it would be very useful to avoid the old, curvy road... And when the traffic volume increases, it can easily be doubled


----------



## Broccolli

Puležan;91458107 said:


> 15 € for the weekly vignette is a little bit too much (for someone who just passes on Koper bypass going to Trieste)


But its weekly not daily, you can go more often to Trieste for 15 euros or you can drive all around Slovenias highways (for a whole week), me for example i pay about 10 euros for both ways (from Border to Pula) and if i want to go lets say three days later again to Pula i must pay again 10 euros, and so on and so on. But if you want to go just and only to Trieste (Italy) for just one day and than the same day home again its better that you use regional (side) roads. For example you can go through Motovun - Buzet - Slovenian/Croatian border -Slovenian side roads towards and through Kozina and then through Krvavi potok - Slovenian/Italian border -through Bazovica/Basovizza and then Trieste 
When we want to save some money we go always on regional roads via Buzet and then Motovun or Lupoglav...towards Pula 



Puležan;91458107 said:


> A9 is in full profile from SLO border to Pula (except Mirna bridge and Limska draga viaduct) and it costs 37 kn (cca 5 €), *but you can take the Vodnjan-north exit and spare cca 1 €*


Yes i do that Vodnjan- north exit:cheers:


----------



## Puležan

Broccolli said:


> For example you can go through Motovun - Buzet - Slovenian/Croatian border -Slovenian side roads towards and through Kozina and then through Krvavi potok - Slovenian/Italian border -through Bazovica/Basovizza and then Trieste


It's faster, much shorter and easier to use old state road D21 (Pula-Buje-Kaštel), then G11 (Dragonja-Koper) and 741 through Škofije


----------



## Broccolli

Puležan said:


> It's faster, much shorter and easier to use old state road D21 (Pula-Buje-Kaštel), then G11 (Dragonja-Koper) and 741 through Škofije


Yes Puležan i agree with you, but that road is an option out of the tourist season, because during the tourist season, is crazy traffic there, especially on Plovanija/Dragonja Border and on Istarski Ipsilon toll stations. So if you go through Buzet towards Pula or in your case from Pula towards Buzet (during tourist season) is much faster and easy going without traffic jams on Border and almost without traffic, and also for me is this very picturesque road especially if you go through Motovun, and Višnjan...

Sorry for a little bit offtopic


----------



## keber

Puležan said:


> But let's get back on topic - what's the possibility of making H5 in half-profile first? It would be cheaper and it would be very useful to avoid the old, curvy road... And when the traffic volume increases, it can easily be doubled


Theoretically that would be possible on the second (easier and cheaper) half of H5 before Dragonja. Part south of Koper and under Šmarje hill must be done with 4 lanes because of future interchange with A1 (which will probably be extended and expanded to 6 lanes until today's H5-A1 merge at Dekani). After that there is junction for Koper and right after that 2 km long tunnel, which will have to have two tubes right from the beginning because of safety demands. 
4 lanes are actually necessary until junction Korte/Padna which leaves only 4 km to be built with two lanes only. Not much would be saved neither in time nor cost.


----------



## 3naranze

Puležan said:


> 15 € for the weekly vignette is a little bit too much (for someone who just passes on Koper bypass going to Trieste)


so this video is very popular even in italy


----------



## Verso

keber said:


> H6 is definitely needed as it is meant for traffic on the coast which is significant even outside tourist season and it will end in Lucija.
> 
> H5 is for transit traffic toward Croatia only. Now you could say it would be better to extend H6 to Croatian border and connect onto their A9 (which would be pretty difficult because of terrain). But traffic data suggest that in tourist season such H6 would be very congested, especially between Koper and Izola. Already now current H6 around Koper reaches 40.000 AADT (in season weekends its about double number). After Croatia joins EU and Schengen, traffic will increase even more, especially transit traffic. Two parallel expressways may be not needed right now, but in 10 or 15 years this will almost certainly change.
> 
> EDIT: 2011 traffic data for Slovenia:
> http://www.dc.gov.si/fileadmin/dc.gov.si/pageuploads/Stetje_prometa/Stetje2011.xls


Traffic on H5 between Koper and Bertoki has dropped from 52,505 AADT in 2009 to just 38,632 AADT in 2011. Looks like because you don't have to use it any more to get from A1 and Italy to the port and eastern Koper, and from Koper to Ankaran.


----------



## pmaciej7

Crni Kal viaduct (A1)

Direction Koper (1061 m)



























Direction Ljubljana (1058 m)




































View from road 208


----------



## pmaciej7

View from Crni Kal



























View from road 409


















View from Socerb castle









View from Castello di San Giusto in Trieste









:wave:


----------



## Verso

Any view of Črni Kal from Mars?  Wow, you really photographed it from everywhere.


----------



## hofburg

well done


----------



## keber

*H3 - reconstruction of section Koseze-Celovška, 27.5.2012*
It is the oldest section of Ljubljana northern bypass (opened in 1981) and needs complete overhauls (no widening to 2x3 for now). Works started today, I just want to show a bad example of traffic management. Works will take 3 months. This section has around 60.000 AADT.

1 - trucks heavier than 7,5 t have forbidden access to H3. This is only signage that shows that, no fixed ones.









2 - still bearable 









3 - a confusion of signage









4 - because this section has heavy traffic and slow traffic almost every workday I would assume better signage to be implemented.









5 - a confusion of signage no. 2









6 - there is the end of works.








[/QUOTE]
I would assume, that in Germany, Italy, Netherlands, France etc. they would demand at least removal of old white lines.


----------



## sebi23ro

not in Romania tough :lol:. You got some outstanding roads in Slovenia some of them better than most, in the countries you just mentioned.


----------



## Groningen NL

In The Netherlands we keep the old white lines during construction. Same goes for Germany I belief. You just focus on the yellow lines, it's not that hard or unsafe imho.


----------



## keber

Groningen NL said:


> In The Netherlands we keep the old white lines during construction.


Are you sure? More or less I saw only those type of pictures in NL thread.
http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/153/20110925193830.jpg


----------



## verreme

In Spain white lines are usually painted black, so at dawn or dusk they reflect the sun and are thus more readable than the yellow ones. Directional signage is barely changed, so confusion is also an issue.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's entirely new asphalt for a widening. Normally the yellow lines are drawn over the existing road markings, like this:

A28-06-06-2010-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Attus

As far as I saw, in Hungary and in Germany, too, the white marings are unchanged during the works, just like in your pictures. 
Two weeks ago I drove through lots of roadworks in German A7 (there's at least ten Baustelle between Nürnberg and Hamburg), the white lines were there everywhere, untouched.


----------



## g.spinoza

In Italy you can find both situations, with white markings intact or deleted.


----------



## x-type

in HR we also have both, although more often they leave white markings. we have another problem - they make 2+2 yellow lanes, but there is not enough space for that, so it is useless and confusing.


----------



## Verso

Cool pic of Šentvid tunnel:









http://www.delo.si/gospodarstvo/makromonitor/predor-sentvid-sirocic-obtozbe-ne-komentira-nemec-jo-zavraca.html


----------



## Verso

kozorog said:


> A1, pri Dramljah
> 
> 
> Green highway by Kozorog, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Green highway by Kozorog, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Green highway by Kozorog, on Flickr


:cheers:


----------



## RipleyLV

I really like the second one. Truck power! :cheers:


----------



## Godius

Verso said:


> Cool pic of Šentvid tunnel:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.delo.si/gospodarstvo/makromonitor/predor-sentvid-sirocic-obtozbe-ne-komentira-nemec-jo-zavraca.html


Looks a bit weird at first sight but it's definitely a cool tunnel.


----------



## Verso

^^ Those are just local tubes that later join the main tube.



RipleyLV said:


> I really like the second one. Truck power! :cheers:


I think the third one is also great.


----------



## Verso

A new 4-lane road has been finished in Ljubljana:


Union.SLO said:


> Še zadnji detajli.


----------



## RipleyLV

Great!


----------



## hofburg

maps.google.HU ?? what were you looking at?


----------



## Verso

I don't know, maybe some Hungarian posted a link somewhere, but then it would probably be in Hungarian, not Slovenian. :dunno: But I did notice "Storitev Google Zemljevidi je na voljo v: magyar" and found it weird. 

EDIT: looks like I got it from here.


----------



## kozorog

Construction of new rest area and exit Cikava



keber said:


> *Priključek Cikava, 30.6.2012, tik pred odprtjem:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Novi znaki so res ogromni:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Verjetno bi se dalo sprojektirat tudi za 80 km/h, ampak v Sloveniji očitno še nismo tako daleč
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Upam da bo stari/novi vmesni steber zgledal kaj lepše


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Why not light signs from below? If you light signs from the top they become less readable due to shadows.

Example in the Netherlands:









We don't use them anymore because of retroreflective diamond grade signs.


----------



## Verso

Zidani Most (important railway junction) now and in the future:


kozorog said:


> Vir-Panoramio,iztokgos


5 bridges on 350 m. :nuts:


----------



## Verso

0:05 - 0:12: driving on left in Nova Gorica. :troll:


----------



## hofburg

Verso said:


> 0:05 - 0:12: driving on left in Nova Gorica. :troll:


whatever  those are lanes for driving school.


----------



## hofburg

DSC09989 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

https://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=4...18114,0.043945&mra=mift&mrsp=0&sz=15&t=m&z=15



DSC09991 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

https://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=4...36226,0.055189&mra=mift&mrsp=0&sz=14&t=m&z=14



DSC09994 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

https://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=4...36203,0.055189&mra=mift&mrsp=0&sz=14&t=m&z=14



DSC09971 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

https://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=4...36197,0.055189&mra=mift&mrsp=0&sz=14&t=m&z=14



DSC00027 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

https://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=4...17984,0.027595&mra=mift&mrsp=0&sz=15&t=m&z=15



DSC00025 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

https://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=4...17984,0.027595&mra=mift&mrsp=0&sz=15&t=m&z=15


----------



## Verso

^^ The last photo wasn't taken from the road, right? Because I can't remember seeing Zbiljsko Lake from the road and I've driven there like a hundred times.


----------



## hofburg

Verso said:


> ^^ The last photo wasn't taken from the road, right? Because I can't remember seeing Zbiljsko Lake from the road and I've driven there like a hundred times.


it was, you just didn't do it right  whyelse it would be blurry.


----------



## kozorog

:bash:


----------



## hofburg

sorry kozorog, but Verso posted this already

I remember, because we had 'pigs' discussion


----------



## Verso

hofburg said:


> it was, you just didn't do it right  whyelse it would be blurry.


Is it blurry? Anyway, I'll pay attention the 101st time I'll drive there. Nice pics, btw!


----------



## martin0102

Hello my slovenian friends. I want to ask you. I`m going to see Triglav national park at weekend. Do I need slovenian vignette for driving just through Karawanken tunel an going down at the very first exit? Sorry if I ask something what was written few pages behind, I don`t wanna read more than 5 pages 
Thanks for reply.


----------



## Verso

No, you don't, just pay €6.5 for the tunnel (on the Austrian side). Have fun!


----------



## hofburg

*Road 444 near Nova Gorica*
(old main road Rozna Dolina - Ljubljana)

https://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=V...FUgGvQId2cHQAA&mra=me&mrsp=1,0&sz=15&t=m&z=14


2012-08-09-050 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


2012-08-09-052 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


2012-08-09-055 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


2012-08-09-056 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


2012-08-09-058 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


2012-08-09-060 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

*Osimo road and Nova Gorica*
seen from Italy


2012-08-09-062 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## Verso

^^ Osimo.

Nice pics. I don't know, if I've ever driven between Rožna Dolina and Ajševica.


----------



## hofburg

it's a nice wide road with no traffic.
corrected. I'll upload video of Osimo road in 720p shortly.


----------



## hofburg

here is the video, the road starts at 1:52. it seems a bit laggy, don't know why.


----------



## Zagor666

Verso said:


> ^^ Osimo.
> 
> Nice pics. I don't know, if I've ever driven between Rožna Dolina and Ajševica.


:sad2:what kind of a Slovenian are you?You must drive every road there is in Slovenija and of course you must climb on the Triglav like every real Slovenian :cheers:


----------



## keber

OK, Triglav. But driving all roads? Where's that idea come from?


----------



## Zagor666

keber said:


> OK, Triglav. But driving all roads? Where's that idea come from?


Maybe from somebody from Liechtenstein :colgate:


----------



## RipleyLV

hofburg said:


> *Osimo road and Nova Gorica*
> seen from Italy
> 
> 
> 2012-08-09-062 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


Nanos mountain looking badass as always!


----------



## hofburg

good eye!  you can almost see the end of H4


----------



## italystf

hofburg said:


> *Road 444 near Nova Gorica*
> (old main road Rozna Dolina - Ljubljana)


You can easily write Nova Gorica - Ljubljana 
Rozna Dolina is a suburb of N.G. that I had to google to find out.


----------



## hofburg

road 444 might be just SS56 once upon a time, built by Italians in 30's. not sure though.
that's also why I wrote Rozna Dolina, because it bypasses Nova Gorica and goes directly to Gorizia/Gorica.


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> i remember traveling to Italy in the times when A1 used to end in Razdrto. traveling on state road from Razdrto to Fernetiči always lasted ages. but i cannot remember which road we've been using rather - via Štorje or via Divača (i guess the first one).


If you went via Štorje, that's a wide straight road with a speed limit mostly 90 km/h (80 km/h back then), but you could easily drive more than 100 km/h. There were probably huge traffic jams between Razdrto and Senožeče (through Laže ), because I remember them too.


----------



## x-type

actually, i was traveling by bus each time in that time (mostly school excursions). yes, the road was very busy always.
i also remember when today's A3 opened toll station Dane had all LED signalization lights which looked absolutely fabolous


----------



## hofburg

fire near Crni Kal. Primorska is so dry these days...









www.rtvslo.si


----------



## Verso

:runaway:









http://www.delo.si/novice/kronika/zatemnjeno-nebo-nad-cicarijo-in-kraskim-robom.html


----------



## YU-AMC

I hope the police stopped the traffic. Right?


----------



## hofburg

motorway is still open, only exits are closed and state road.


----------



## keber

Some motorway related pictures:



































http://www.rtvslo.si/crna-kronika/foto-pozar-pri-crnem-kalu-omejen-ne-pa-se-pogasen/289215


----------



## keber

That one is really cool/hot picture:


----------



## Verso

Ringroad around the centre of Ljubljana is finally completed (red line with a 4-lane double-decker bridge over Ljubljanica River):






















































http://www.delo.si/novice/ljubljana/odprt-most-ki-je-razburjal-predvsem-kolesarje.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice work 

The bridge doesn't look 4-lane though.


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nice work
> 
> The bridge doesn't look 4-lane though.


It's 4-lane, but looks like it's partly 2+2 and partly 3+1. But that's nothing bad since the road south of it is 2+1 and the road north of it just 1+1 (yes, part of the inner ringroad).


----------



## Verso

keber said:


> That one is really cool/hot picture:


Even better:









And one from January:


----------



## hofburg

this guy must live close to the viaduct.


----------



## italystf

hofburg said:


> this guy must live close to the viaduct.


Or be a genious with Photoshop.


----------



## Verso

I think he's from Žirje by Sežana and he actually works for DARS. He's also our only tornado chaser (goes to USA all the time).


----------



## keber

italystf said:


> Or be a genious with Photoshop.


I don't see any photoshop here, just good usage of camera settings.


----------



## hofburg

road or cycling path viaduct? 

near Koper



kozorog said:


> Ks. Viadukt Bonifika


----------



## hofburg

italystf said:


> Will DARS dissolve? Will SLO motorways be managed by different private companies? Will the vignette system remain the same?
> 
> 
> Never heard of that planned new north-south route. How are going works for the H5-H6 in the littoral?
> What about the project for the long awaited E61 motorway Divaca - Jelsane (or Kozina - Jelsane)? It vould be a vital link between Italy (and then France, Spain,...) and the Balkan region. I know Slovenia has no interest in that project because it doesn't connect Slovenian cities but it's very important from an European point of view, especially after HR will join EU. Trieste and Rijeka are two important industrial cities less than 100km apart and are connected only by a 1+1 road, often overcrowed in summer.


vignette will be replaced by electronic toll by that time. I guess Dars would still manage smaller part of motorway network. I don't know if there will be one or more private companies. 

Divaca Jelsane is planned, I guess it will be built the same way as before mentioned north-south route (or "3rd axis").

H5 - there's a tender for tunnel Markovec equipment, it should be finished in one year. http://www.delo.si/novice/slovenija/za-dokoncanje-predora-markovec-nase-druzbe-najugodnejse.html


----------



## Verso

They've opened Radlje bypass on G1-1, with an aqueduct across:


kozorog said:


> http://www.dc.gov.si/fileadmin/dc.g...va_skladi/Radlje/Porocilo_marc_april_2012.doc


----------



## stickedy

What's this?


----------



## Verso

stickedy said:


> What's this?


An aqueduct. A river/creek crosses the road on a bridge.









http://www.delo.si/novice/slovenija/koroske-ceste-niso-v-tako-slabem-stanju-kot-opozarjajo-zupani.html


----------



## x-type

really wtf?! just spending state budget money, or there is a special purpose of this? seems like irrigational canal


----------



## Verso

As you can see on the previous page, the road is cut, so it's on a lower level than the surrounding area, therefore they had to build an aqueduct not to change the course of the creek.


----------



## x-type

wouldn't the bridge over stream be more convenient and common solution, despite the ascent?


----------



## Godius

These canals could make excellent ice skating highways during winter period.


----------



## hofburg

x-type said:


> really wtf?! just spending state budget money, or there is a special purpose of this? seems like irrigational canal


its actually more like european money.


----------



## Verso

^^ Slovenia trolling EU? 



x-type said:


> wouldn't the bridge over stream be more convenient and common solution, despite the ascent?


Maybe there were other reasons for the cut, I don't know. Here it says they actually cut it _because_ of the aqueduct. :dunno:


> V tem delu od PP 206 pa do PP 240 se trasa rahlo poglobi zaradi že omenjenega akvadukta.


----------



## hofburg

this is like making a mountain because the tunnel is there.


----------



## keber

--double--


----------



## keber

x-type said:


> wouldn't the bridge over stream be more convenient and common solution, despite the ascent?


There is more to this:
- this stream is part of irrigation system
- road is lowered because it runs close to the residential parts and new sports area. Therefore you don't need to build large antinoise barriers and it is also hidden from the view. Heightened road with barriers would spoil landscape view to the south and would have more influence to microclimatic conditions.

Google Maps:
https://maps.google.com/?ll=46.611545,15.224969&spn=0.007429,0.016512&t=h&z=17


----------



## Verso

I've been to Radlje countless times. I remember times when their gas station was filled with Austrians buying cheap fuel.


----------



## x-type

keber said:


> There is more to this:
> - this stream is part of irrigation system
> - road is lowered because it runs close to the residential parts and new sports area. Therefore you don't need to build large antinoise barriers and it is also hidden from the view. Heightened road with barriers would spoil landscape view to the south and would have more influence to microclimatic conditions.


firest explanation made me making face "erghhh ou kay, but still don't get it"- second one makes some sense, but still this is more expensive solution than noise barriers. (you put noise barriers on provincial roads, too?)


----------



## stickedy

That's not a provincial road, it's the national road 1, the main connection between Maribor and Dravograd (and further to Völkermarkt in Austria). 

So, that aqueduct seems to make sense: You have to build a bridge either way, either for the road or for the creek. So concerning the noise barriers and so on, it doesn't look so weired as it does on the first look... But at least no common solution


----------



## cinxxx

Hello.
Can you tell me the best places to take pictures of the Črni Kal Viaduct?
I would be driving from Koper. And then continue North. 

Would like to drive on the viaduct after pictures, or maybe before?


----------



## x-type

cinxxx said:


> Hello.
> Can you tell me the best places to take pictures of the Črni Kal Viaduct?
> I would be driving from Koper. And then continue North.
> 
> Would like to drive on the viaduct after pictures, or maybe before?


Take exit Crni Kal just after viaduct in direction Koper. Road goes just under viaduct and there you can find a lot of nice places for taking photos. I often go there to the western side of viaduct and the view is great, although from eastern side it is also the same if not better.


----------



## italystf

I this website you can find all route info to travel between Italy and Croatia without buying the vignette.
http://www.nonpagolavignetta.it/Percorsi.htm


----------



## hofburg

nonpagolavignetta.it ? :lol: anyway, cinxxx won't be needing this.


----------



## Broccolli

nonpagolavignetta.it :lol: amazing plan 
I will try all those routes and i will avoid vignette like land mines muhaha yes yes


----------



## cinxxx




----------



## darko06

It must be mentioned here, that on the H5 (between Italian border and Crevatini tunnel in direction Koper) exist unofficial banners with warning messages (only in Slovenian):
"This road has no using permit and subsequently DARS has no right to collect vignette violation fines on it."


----------



## hofburg




----------



## hofburg




----------



## hofburg

H5, Koper



kozorog said:


>


----------



## kozorog

Tunnel Markovec


----------



## hofburg

floods hno:


----------



## Broccolli

It is real catastrophe hno:


----------



## Broccolli

*Soča river*











*Drava river*











*Sava river*


----------



## hofburg

*New rest area on H4 near Vipava*



hofburg said:


> *Mlake *
> 
> 
> mlake4 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr
> 
> 
> mlake3 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr
> 
> ponovem 444 na tabli
> 
> mlake2 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr
> 
> 
> 2012-11-06-460 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr
> 
> 
> mlake1 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

*Ljubljana*


1lj par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## hofburg

*Podgric*

https://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=4...17146,0.042272&t=p&mra=mift&mrsp=0&sz=15&z=13


podgric par d.hofburg, sur Flickr


----------



## cinxxx

Damn, I was in Slovenia on 1st and 4th this month.
Good thing the flood didn't catch me there.
Or maybe the parts I visited were not affected?


----------



## Broccolli

cinxxx said:


> Damn, I was in Slovenia on 1st and 4th this month.
> Good thing the flood didn't catch me there.
> Or maybe the parts *I visited were not affected*?


Exactly you were driving mostly through green area i think (look at the map). Green area is a safe zone, there was no floods. 









(Foto: ARSO)


----------



## hofburg

also, he was out of SLO on 4th


----------



## Broccolli

...


----------



## x-type

here is how it looked yesterday in Croatia
http://www.vecernji.hr/regije/foto-...zgledaju-poplavljena-podrucja-galerija-472077


----------



## hofburg

https://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=4...09925,0.021136&mra=mift&mrsp=0&sz=16&t=p&z=15



kozorog said:


> _A1, viadukt Petelinjek_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vir- panoramio, razpotnik


----------



## Broccolli

*Wakeboarding In Floods Škofja Loka*
from mungo klub

52921198


----------



## hofburg

lol, attached to a car!


----------



## Broccolli

Driving through Maribor






Runaway bull in Maribor and butcher behind him :lol:


----------



## hofburg

A2



kozorog said:


> _A2, Dolenjska_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vir- e-fotografija, pmedved


----------



## hofburg

I know very well only A1 Nanos - Ljubljana zahod. there is one 100 limit in direction Ljubljana, after Brezovica before Kozarje interchange.

on H4 normal limit is 110, but between Podnanos and Nanos limit is always 100 on electric signs, and 80 in tunnels.


----------



## Puležan

^^Thanks for the answer  That in Kozarje is probably because of the interchange and pretty sharp curve in it...
I'm asking that because in Croatia there's lot of motorways which have lower speed limits than standard 130 (part of A2, part of A4, A6, A7, A8, A9), because of the curviness or lack of hard shoulders.


----------



## keber

OK, let's start (not including particular tunnels and toll stations):
A1:
- interchange with A5 (100 km/h - I'm not so sure for this one)
- interchange with A4 (100 km/h)
- Slovenske Konjice - Pletovarje (100 km/h for ~4 km) - curvy, two tunnels, lack of hardshoulder (in my opinion also the most dangerous part of A1
- Vransko - Blagovica (100 km/h for ~15 km) - hilly, curvy, tunnels
- interchange with H3 (100 km/h for ~3 km)
- interchange with A2 including tunnel (100 / 80 km/h for ~3 km)
- interchange with A2 (100 / 80 km/h for ~2,5 km)

A2:
- interchange with H3 including tunnel with exit (100 / 80 / 100 km/h for ~5 km)
- interchange with A1 (80 km/h for ~1 km)
- interchange with A1 including tunnel (80 / 100 km/h for ~1 km)
- Grosuplje - Višnja Gora (100 km/h for ~6 km), one direction only - alignment from 1957, no hard shoulder
- bridge over Krka - Brežice exit (100 km/h for ~1 km) - tight curve, exit in covered cutting

A3: nothing except interchange with A1, a tunnel, toll station and former border station

A4: nothing except interchange with A1

A5: 
- interchange with A1 (don't know speed limit)
- Pernica - H7 interchange (110 km/h for ~75 km) - lack of hard shoulder
- Lendava - Pince (not sure if there is a speed limit - for ~7 km) - lack of hard shoulder

This is everything from my memory, I hope I didn't forgot anything.


----------



## hofburg

keber said:


> A2:
> 1- interchange with H3 including tunnel with exit (100 / 80 / 100 km/h for ~5 km)
> 2- interchange with A1 (80 km/h for ~1 km)
> 3- interchange with A1 including tunnel (80 / 100 km/h for ~1 km)


1- Sentvid - Koseze
2- Kozarje
3- Malence


----------



## hofburg

keber said:


> A3: nothing except interchange with A1, a tunnel, toll station and former border station



DSC07213 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


----------



## hofburg

A1: suggested 100 in Ankaran


DSC07189 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


----------



## hofburg

A1: quite before tunnel Dekani


DSC07194 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


----------



## hofburg

keber said:


> A4: nothing except interchange with A1



Maribor 039 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


----------



## Puležan

keber said:


> OK, let's start (not including particular tunnels and toll stations):
> A1:
> - interchange with A5 (100 km/h - I'm not so sure for this one)
> - interchange with A4 (100 km/h)
> *- Slovenske Konjice - Pletovarje (100 km/h for ~4 km) - curvy, two tunnels, lack of hardshoulder (in my opinion also the most dangerous part of A1
> - Vransko - Blagovica (100 km/h for ~15 km) - hilly, curvy, tunnels*
> - interchange with H3 (100 km/h for ~3 km)
> - interchange with A2 including tunnel (100 / 80 km/h for ~3 km)
> - interchange with A2 (100 / 80 km/h for ~2,5 km)
> 
> A2:
> - interchange with H3 including tunnel with exit (100 / 80 / 100 km/h for ~5 km)
> - interchange with A1 (80 km/h for ~1 km)
> - interchange with A1 including tunnel (80 / 100 km/h for ~1 km)
> *- Grosuplje - Višnja Gora (100 km/h for ~6 km), one direction only - alignment from 1957, no hard shoulder*
> - bridge over Krka - Brežice exit (100 km/h for ~1 km) - tight curve, exit in covered cutting
> 
> A3: nothing except interchange with A1, a tunnel, toll station and former border station
> 
> A4: nothing except interchange with A1
> 
> A5:
> - interchange with A1 (don't know speed limit)
> *- Pernica - H7 interchange (110 km/h for ~75 km) - lack of hard shoulder*
> - Lendava - Pince (not sure if there is a speed limit - for ~7 km) - lack of hard shoulder
> 
> This is everything from my memory, I hope I didn't forgot anything.


Thanks :cheers1:
So, except in interchange zones, only few shorter sections have lower speed limits because of curvy alignment and/or lack of hard shoulders. That's interesting, because the terrain is pretty much the same as in croatian part of Zagorje, but our engineers had chosen to make more curvy motorways which would follow the terrain to reduce the cost of construction (less cuts, smaller number and height of viaducts...), so today croatian A2 and A4, although among newer motorways (from the mid 90s) and on main international routes have some pretty curvy sections, A4 even without hard shoulders


----------



## bikeee

A5: from A1 interchange to Pernica 130 km/h
Pernica-Dolga vas interchange 110km/h
Dolga vas-Lendava 130km/h
Lendava-Pince 110 km/h


----------



## italystf

hofburg said:


> DSC07213 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


If you like Trst, at least put also the Italian (and international) name.


----------



## hofburg

^must be an old sign, sign before that one was changed:


DSC07211 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


----------



## hofburg

keber said:


> - Slovenske Konjice - Pletovarje (100 km/h for ~4 km) - curvy, two tunnels, lack of hardshoulder (in my opinion also the most dangerous part of A1


this might become a bottleneck later. road alignement is already outdated.


Maribor 031 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


Maribor 032 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


Maribor 033 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


Maribor 034 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


----------



## Verso

Why outdated? There are two tunnels and viaducts between them, you can't make that much straighter.


----------



## Broccolli

italystf said:


> If you like Trst, at least put also the Italian (and international) name.


OMG.. look who's talking :lol:...lets not start with bilingual signs topic, please icard:


----------



## hofburg

Verso said:


> Why outdated? There are two tunnels and viaducts between them, you can't make that much straighter.


maybe if tunnels would be longer one wouldn't need 2 huge viaducts between them.

I didn't drive there often, don't remember exactly how curvy it is. but certainly shoulder should be there and road suface on the viaduct Skedenj I doesn't look good.


----------



## hofburg

https://ssl.panoramio.com/photo/73323722









https://ssl.panoramio.com/photo/64318570


----------



## Verso

hofburg said:


> maybe if tunnels would be longer one wouldn't need 2 huge viaducts between them.


I assume you'd like a longer Golo rebro tunnel, but that would be even more expensive.


----------



## hofburg

well, straighter motorway _is_ more expensive.  but nevertheless I prefer viaducts. they are cooler than tunnels


----------



## Verso

That's the best view on A1 MB-CE anyway. The rest is rather boring.


----------



## keber

hofburg said:


> 1- Sentvid - Koseze
> 2- Kozarje
> 3- Malence


Those names are stupid. It should be like Ljubljana-west, east or similar. Nowhere in the world are interchanges signed with unimportant names.
Try to find Malence on a map. Try to find Gabrk on the map


----------



## ChrisZwolle

keber said:


> Nowhere in the world are interchanges signed with unimportant names.


The Netherlands also has many interchanges named and signed after unimportant places. Some interchanges are named after former farms in the area. :nuts: On the other hand, traffic congestion and traffic information makes these villages (or hamlets or farms) well-known around the country. Almost every Dutch has heard of Everdingen (pop. 1295) or Muiderberg (pop. 3266) or Burgerveen (pop. 374)


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Netherlands also has many interchanges named and signed after unimportant places. Some interchanges are named after former farms in the area. :nuts: On the other hand, traffic congestion and traffic information makes these villages (or hamlets or farms) well-known around the country. Almost every Dutch has heard of Everdingen (pop. 1295) or Muiderberg (pop. 3266) or Burgerveen (pop. 374)


beh. Bosiljevo (it has exit and interchange named after it) in HR has 63 inhabitants :lol:


----------



## niskogradnja

keber said:


> Nowhere in the world are interchanges signed with unimportant names.


In Bosnia-H. we have interchanges named after the unimportant villages Butila and Mahovljani.


----------



## italystf

keber said:


> Those names are stupid. It should be like Ljubljana-west, east or similar. Nowhere in the world are interchanges signed with unimportant names.
> Try to find Malence on a map. Try to find Gabrk on the map


Torano (Rieti) is home of just 700 people and it's not even a municipality but it's well known for the A24-A25 junction.


----------



## italystf

x-type said:


> beh. Bosiljevo (it has exit and interchange named after it) in HR has 63 inhabitants :lol:


Wiki says it has about 1300.


----------



## cinxxx

I will interrupt your interesting talk here and post some pictures of roads 

Here we are in the Karawanke Tunnel


AUT_A11/SLO_A2 - Karavanken Tunnel by cinxxx, on Flickr


AUT_A11/SLO_A2 - Karavanken Tunnel by cinxxx, on Flickr


----------



## cinxxx

And after the tunnel we continue on A2


SLO_A2 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_A2 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_A2 by cinxxx, on Flickr


----------



## cinxxx

SLO_A2 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_A2 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_A2 by cinxxx, on Flickr

Nice foggy landscapes

SLO_A2 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_A2 by cinxxx, on Flickr


----------



## cinxxx

SLO_A2 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_A2 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_A2 by cinxxx, on Flickr

We exit here and continue to Bled:


SLO_209 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_209 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_209 by cinxxx, on Flickr

More to come


----------



## Verso

cinxxx said:


> Nice foggy landscapes
> 
> SLO_A2 by cinxxx, on Flickr


Nice photos. This looks like two different hills.


----------



## hofburg

keep 'em coming


----------



## cinxxx

Ljubljana - Predjama Castle, Postojna - border with HR near Jelšane --> http://goo.gl/maps/LTJGg


SLO_A1 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_A1 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_A1 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_A1 by cinxxx, on Flickr

Foggy

SLO_A1 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_A1 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_A1 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_A1 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_A1 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_A1 by cinxxx, on Flickr


----------



## cinxxx

SLO_A1 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_A1 by cinxxx, on Flickr

Taking the exit here

SLO_A1 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_A1 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO by cinxxx, on Flickr


----------



## cinxxx

Leaving the castle


SLO by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_6 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_6 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_6 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_6 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_6 by cinxxx, on Flickr


----------



## cinxxx

SLO_6 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_6 by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO/Jelšane -HR/Rupa by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO/Jelšane -HR/Rupa by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO/Jelšane -HR/Rupa by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO/Jelšane -HR/Rupa by cinxxx, on Flickr


----------



## x-type

italystf said:


> Wiki says it has about 1300.


that is whole municipality with a collection of villages :susan boyle: precisely, 43 of them. village Bosiljevo itself has 63 inhabitants


----------



## hofburg

what is :susan boyle: lol


----------



## Verso

Susan Boyle is from "a collection of villages". Thanks for the pics, cinxxx!


----------



## cinxxx

^^You're very welcome.
This is the last part of my trip report.


HR_200 - Buje (HR) / Sečovlje (SLO) by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_111 - Buje (HR) / Sečovlje (SLO) by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_111 - Buje (HR) / Sečovlje (SLO) by cinxxx, on Flickr


SLO_111 - Buje (HR) / Sečovlje (SLO) by cinxxx, on Flickr

Border formalities were quick and easy. The only thing the lady told me, was to open the back window, to be able to see inside, because back and rear windows are dark tinted.


----------



## Verso

A1 by Vrhnika 40 years ago:










And three interesting videos:
http://tvslo.si/predvajaj/gradnja-ac-vrhnika-postojna/ava2.154190938/
http://tvslo.si/predvajaj/zamude-pri-gradnji-ac-vrhnika-postojna/ava2.154190958/
http://tvslo.si/predvajaj/ac-vrhnika-postojna-pred-otvoritvijo/ava2.154190911/ (most interesting)


----------



## darko06

Verso said:


> A1 by Vrhnika 40 years ago:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And three interesting videos:
> http://tvslo.si/predvajaj/gradnja-ac-vrhnika-postojna/ava2.154190938/
> http://tvslo.si/predvajaj/zamude-pri-gradnji-ac-vrhnika-postojna/ava2.154190958/
> http://tvslo.si/predvajaj/ac-vrhnika-postojna-pred-otvoritvijo/ava2.154190911/ (most interesting)


Interesting. The font was same size and shape as was on mwy Zagreb-Karlovac.
Today there is a third (right) lane for slow vehicles instead of hard shoulder, full of Hungarian, Romanian, Ukrainian and Serbian trucks.


----------



## Attus

darko06 said:


> Interesting. The font was same size and shape as was on mwy Zagreb-Karlovac.


Considering that it was the very same country back then, it's quite normal


----------



## Verso

darko06 said:


> Today there is a third (right) lane for slow vehicles instead of hard shoulder


Where?


----------



## hofburg

I think he was referring to Vrhnika-Logatec section. nice vids! interesting detour below Stampetov bridge


----------



## Verso

As seen on the photo, it's had a third lane since the beginning, not just today.


----------



## hofburg

there was no Unec exit? why is Postojna in capital letters?


----------



## x-type

hofburg said:


> there was no Unec exit? why is Postojna in capital letters?


better question is "why Logatec with non-capital letters" because font with capital letters was standard these days


----------



## Verso

If anyone is interested, I calculated AADT on the Slovenian border (in 2011). Data for local roads don't exist. Slovenian border with:

1. Italy: 78,317 AADT
2. Croatia: 61,898 AADT
3. Austria: 49,364 AADT
4. Hungary: 11,672 AADT

Total: 201,251 AADT


The busiest border crossings by country:

1. Italy: Fernetiči/Fernetti (A3) - 20,286 AADT
2. Austria: Šentilj/Spielfeld (A1) - 14,200 AADT
3. Croatia: Obrežje/Bregana (A2) - 9,761 AADT
4. Hungary: Pince/Tornyiszentmiklós (A5) - 6,700 AADT


http://www.dc.gov.si/fileadmin/dc.g...met/Promet_2012/Prometne_obremenitve_2011.xls


----------



## hofburg

thanks. I calculated AADT per km of the border 

279,7 (I)
149,6 (A)
114,4 (H)
92,4 (HR)


----------



## hofburg

btw, we had a high speed police chase after one Austrian yesterday on A2 near Kranj.

http://www.rtvslo.si/crna-kronika/f...cah-silovito-trcil-v-policijsko-vozilo/299333


----------



## Broccolli

Meanwhile in Slovenia :lol::nuts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PjGBDCPzIMs

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Ljubljana Ring Road*


----------



## Groningen NL

The guy is probably mentally challenged, but I still lol'd :lol:


----------



## Broccolli

*Markovec Tunnel*


----------



## kozorog

^^

_*Tunnel Markovec*_














































by-http://www.dba.si/project.php?project=2


----------



## Verso

^^ Photomontage, of course.


----------



## crimio

Very nice!


----------



## keber

Planned expressway H5 Koper - Dragonja, state spatial plan is being made:








Larger map:
http://www.dpa.mzip.gov.si/doc/Pregledna_HC_KP-Dragonja.pdf


----------



## Verso

Looks like you won't be able to go from H6 to H5 southbound and vice-versa (except through interchanges Šalara and Koper-center).


----------



## darko06

keber said:


> Planned expressway H5 Koper - Dragonja, state spatial plan is being made:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Larger map:
> http://www.dpa.mzip.gov.si/doc/Pregledna_HC_KP-Dragonja.pdf


When will be this expressway built, and who will pay for it? Maybe EU Cohession/Structural funds?


----------



## Broccolli

Verso said:


> It would be only slightly faster than via Postojna. It would be only useful for Sežana and Koper/coast (among larger towns).


i agree 





italystf said:


> The Divaca - Rupa link could be useful for Slovenes from Nova Gorica, so it wouldn't only carry foreign traffic.
> http://maps.google.it/maps?saddr=No...vqoXJaFkRzFwtss9OG88Nw&oq=rije&mra=ls&t=m&z=9


I know you are kidding but ok i will answer anyway

For 90% of slovenian population that route would be unacceptable.
In our interest is that this route is closer to our capital Ljubljana. 
So Italystf lets make a compromise so Postojna it is


----------



## Verso

He wants both motorways, because obviously building only the one to Divača would be stupid beyond recognition.


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> He wants both motorways, because obviously building only the one to Divača would be stupid beyond recognition.


Off course I said that also Postojna - Rupa is important. Also the H6 is useless, H5 is enough.


----------



## Broccolli

OO thats right he want 2 motorways i forgot:lol:


----------



## Broccolli

italystf said:


> Off course I said that also Postojna - Rupa is important. Also the H6 is useless, H5 is enough.




We dont need that "second" motorway in Slovenia... Italystf you know that right?

For that second one you must persuade croatians that they start building motorway from Rijeka to Kaštel, or whatever i dont care.:lol:


----------



## keber

There would be just 7 - 8 minutes difference between direct route Divača-HR border and a route via Postojna. That is negligible in long distance transport therefore it is better to build route which would take more traffic that is route via Postojna. Case closed.


----------



## darko06

This is simply not true, according to the fact that today the A1 from Gabrk to Ljubljana is congested with Romanian and other Eastern European lorries and small busses overtaking eachother. You will need at least 15 to 20 minutes from Gabrk to Postojna.

But you know what? Because of soon entry of Croatia into the EU Slovenia should consider building the route from Gabrk to Rupa. When finished, this motorway would decongest Slovenian A1, because in that case a great part of transit cargo traffic will reroute itself to Gabrk-Rupa-Rijeka-Karlovac-Zagreb-Varaždin-Hungarian A7, because the route through Croatia will be shorter (which is important due to fuel consumption).


----------



## hofburg

italystf said:


> The Divaca - Rupa link could be useful for Slovenes from Nova Gorica, so it wouldn't only carry foreign traffic.
> http://maps.google.it/maps?saddr=No...vqoXJaFkRzFwtss9OG88Nw&oq=rije&mra=ls&t=m&z=9


we Slovenes from Nova Gorica go to Rijeka only once in a couple of years 

http://maps.google.it/maps?saddr=No...vqoXJaFkRzFwtss9OG88Nw&oq=rije&mra=ls&t=m&z=9

that's only slight detour from Divaca route. and it affects only people from Trieste/Trst. for Salzburg route I have to do an U turn at Villach/Beljak because there's no direct motorway from Pontebba to Spittal. there are plenty of detours like that in Europe.

what's important is that there will be a motorway link.


----------



## kreden

darko06 said:


> This is simply not true, according to the fact that today the A1 from Gabrk to Ljubljana is congested with Romanian and other Eastern European lorries and small busses overtaking eachother. You will need at least 15 to 20 minutes from Gabrk to Postojna.


There is traffic, but there are no traffic jams, you can easily do 130 the whole way to Postojna.



> But you know what? Because of soon entry of Croatia into the EU Slovenia should consider building the route from Gabrk to Rupa. When finished, this motorway would decongest Slovenian A1, because in that case a great part of transit cargo traffic will reroute itself to Gabrk-Rupa-Rijeka-Karlovac-Zagreb-Varaždin-Hungarian A7, because the route through Croatia will be shorter (which is important due to fuel consumption).


Actually, via Croatia with Divača - Rupa would be still 25km longer.


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> Also the H6 is useless, H5 is enough.


There's a lot of traffic from Koper to Izola, Portorož and Piran, so we need that expressway. Actually, if we built just one expressway, it would be the H6 (and extended to Croatia).


----------



## kreden

Verso said:


> There's a lot of traffic from Koper to Izola, Portorož and Piran, so we need that expressway. Actually, if we built just one expressway, it would be the H6 (and extended to Croatia).


Yes, H5 will be empty most of the year but H6 is imporant for commuters.


----------



## keber

darko06 said:


> This is simply not true, according to the fact that today the A1 from Gabrk to Ljubljana is congested with Romanian and other Eastern European lorries and small busses overtaking eachother. You will need at least 15 to 20 minutes from Gabrk to Postojna.


There is about 15-17 km difference between direct route and that via Postojna.
Building additional motorway because of 8 minutes time saving is not sensible in next 15-20 years because of low traffic expected.


----------



## Puležan

kreden said:


> Yes, H5 will be empty most of the year but H6 is imporant for commuters.


It would be better that only H6 (Koper-Lucija-Sečovlje) expressway was built and connected to the croatian A9. In that case that expressway would serve both local and transit traffic. For example, the distance between Pula and Koper on A9+H6 would be only 6 km longer than on planned A9+H5:
http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=P...ldsCK117RzFQ8z-CHPgABA&oq=luc&t=h&mra=ls&z=11

But in today's solution, H5 must be built because of high traffic volumes on that route during summer, since there are many vehicles and trailers going to Istria during the summer. On croatian A9, average traffic volume last summer was 37.465 (with its peak on August 11 with 54.350). After we enter EU and Schengen, even more people will travel on this route, going from Istra to Koper and Trieste on daily basis, without border formalities

So, lets be optimistic and hope that our 2 countries would be smart enough to forget all frictions and take money from EU funds for everyone's benefit :cheers1:


----------



## hofburg

^ yes, and that's the only way (financialy speaking) to build these motorways, unless somebody buys slovenia


----------



## hofburg

Nova Gorica - Ljubljana :cheers:
enjoy


----------



## darko06

hofburg said:


> ^ yes, and that's the only way (financialy speaking) to build these motorways, unless somebody buys slovenia


and/or Croatia too


----------



## keber

Puležan said:


> It would be better that only H6 (Koper-Lucija-Sečovlje) expressway was built and connected to the croatian A9. In that case that expressway would serve both local and transit traffic. For example, the distance between Pula and Koper on A9+H6 would be only 6 km longer than on planned A9+H5:


A hypothetical extension of H6 from Lucija to Dragonja (only possible common point of both expressways because of gentle incline needed to overcome about 100 m height difference) would need two tunnels of ~1,1 km and 1-5-1,7 km respectively, which is in sum longer than proposed ~2,2 km long tunnel on H5. Why:
- saline area around airport is nature reserved area
- further up to Dragonja village there are very fertile lands which are not to be built on. A viaduct over valley would preserve the land but it would spoil the view of the landscape.

Altogether this extension would be still somehow cheaper but on longterm it is better to separate transit traffic to Croatian Istria on own route. Already first phase with Koper bypass would significantly shorten summer traffic jams.


----------



## darko06

keber said:


> ... Already first phase with Koper bypass would significantly shorten summer traffic jams.


That's true. First phase (Koper bypass) should be built ASAP, to avoid two signals and 1 1/2 roundabout.


----------



## Verso

Puležan said:


> On croatian A9, average traffic volume last summer was 37.465


I recently looked at traffic volumes on Croatian roads and if I remember correctly, it was just about 15,000 on A9 (summer traffic).


----------



## cinxxx

I drove the A9 from Pula all the way to Slovenia, and it was pretty much empty...


----------



## Verso

Puležan said:


> On croatian A9, average traffic volume last summer was 37.465 (with its peak on August 11 with 54.350).


Ah, now I see they're talking about the entire motorway (including A8), which is pretty much useless. We have to look between two interchanges, which is 9-15,000 SADT (summer average daily traffic) and just 4-8,000 AADT on A9.

http://www.hrvatske-ceste.hr/WEB - Legislativa/brojenje-prometa/BrPr_2011_saz.pdf (page 43)


----------



## Puležan

Verso said:


> Ah, now I see they're talking about the entire motorway (including A8), which is pretty much useless. We have to look between two interchanges, which is 9-15,000 SADT (summer average daily traffic) and just 4-8,000 AADT on A9.
> 
> http://www.hrvatske-ceste.hr/WEB - Legislativa/brojenje-prometa/BrPr_2011_saz.pdf (page 43)


Yes, they counted alltogether all 3 main toll stations (Umag, Pula, Učka tunnel), which gave that result. Here's new statistics from 2012: http://www.hrvatske-ceste.hr/WEB - Legislativa/brojenje-prometa/PLDP2012.pdf

On Umag count post there was 14.162 vehicles, all of that number going/coming from Slovenia. It's 1% more than in 2011. I'm saying this because traffic volume rises every year and will rise even more in half a year (I hope ), but the most important thing is to move all those trailers and transit traffic from existing state road. Maybe 15.000 vehicles doesn't sound like a big number, but it would be a real disaster if all that traffic still goes on old curvy and narrow D21 instead of A9 motorway.


----------



## Broccolli

Nice project....question is will be this finished in our life time?


----------



## kozorog

_Vipava valley and H4_









by-http://www.slo-foto.net/galerija_slika-110999.html


----------



## hofburg

great^



Broccolli said:


> Nice project....question is will be this finished in our life time?


is this fan-made or what?


----------



## kreden

No, it's made according to spatial plan, which was approved some years ago. I don't know when will Dars build it, maybe after financial crisis?


----------



## Broccolli

hofburg said:


> great^
> 
> 
> 
> is this fan-made or what?


No like Kreden said it is a real deal


----------



## crimio

Great!


----------



## hofburg

*Snow time*

https://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=H...FWanvAId0BfRAA&mra=me&mrsp=1,0&sz=15&t=m&z=14


2013-02-12-798 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


2013-02-12-799 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


2013-02-12-800 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


----------



## hofburg

https://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=4...17098,0.042272&mra=mift&mrsp=0&sz=15&t=m&z=15


2013-02-11-752 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


2013-02-11-753 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


----------



## hofburg

2013-02-11-756 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


2013-02-11-757 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


----------



## hofburg

2013-02-11-762 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


2013-02-11-765 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


----------



## hofburg

2013-02-11-766 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


2013-02-11-769 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


----------



## hofburg

Italy is closed


2013-02-11-770 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


2013-02-11-774 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


----------



## hofburg

2013-02-11-779 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


2013-02-11-785 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


----------



## Verso

Closed Italy. :lol:


----------



## RipleyLV

Because of snow they closed the border?


----------



## cinxxx

^^For trucks heavier then 7.5t


----------



## hofburg

2 or 3 days ago there was a ban for trucks in I, so they started exclusion already in SLO.


----------



## Verso

Yes, and we had rows of trucks on hard shoulders and had to give drivers food and water.


----------



## oakwood....

Verso said:


> Closed Italy. :lol:


Whether this is often the case, and how and when making appearances in exclusion from the road and the prohibition of entry?


----------



## Verso

No, it doesn't happen often. Actually I can't remember the last time it happened.


----------



## oakwood....

Verso said:


> No, it doesn't happen often. Actually I can't remember the last time it happened.


Thanks for your response, I was wondering purely out of curiosity. :cheers:


----------



## Verso

hofburg said:


> 2013-02-11-770 by d.hofburg, on Flickr


----------



## timo9

^^


----------



## kozorog




----------



## RipleyLV

^^ Awesome!


----------



## Verso

Yes, especially the first one with snowing and bora wind on H4 yesterday.


----------



## Attus

Tomorrow I visit Slovenia, Budapest - Ljubljana - Bled - Ljubljana - Budapest. Can I expect any problem on this way? Do you have any recommendation about where to park the car for a visit of LJ city center?


----------



## hofburg

you can park the car at Kongresni trg, first 3 hours 1,20€.

http://www.lpt.si/parkirisca/parkirisca_osebna_vozila/kongresni_trg
http://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=46...01243,0.002642&mra=mift&mrsp=0&sz=19&t=m&z=19

Sentvid tunnel will be closed tomorrow. so this will be probably the deviation:
http://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=Iz...FVF5vwId1sPcAA&mra=me&mrsp=1,0&sz=14&t=m&z=14


----------



## Attus

^^ Thank you!


----------



## Verso

hofburg said:


> Sentvid tunnel will be closed tomorrow.


Yes, but only for 2 hours (between 10h and 12h). Btw, parking at _Kongresni trg_ costs first 3 hours €1.20 *per hour* (€3.60) and then €2.40 per hour.


----------



## Attus

^^ Directed to Bled we'll be there between 10-12 
Thanks, I, too, checked the parking fees, €3.60 is not too much


----------



## Broccolli

Enjoy 1 hour and 10 minutes 

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkHZ5IkVg04


----------



## Verso

^^ 1:05:19-1:05:29 :scouserd:


----------



## kozorog

Landslide on highway A1, section Slovenske Konjice-Slovenska Bistrica, direction Ljubljana is closed.hno:

http://www.24ur.com/novice/slovenija/foto-zemeljski-plaz-zaprl-stajersko-avtocesto.html


----------



## RipleyLV

In a familiar place happened!


----------



## kozorog

kozorog said:


> Landslide on highway A1, section Slovenske Konjice-Slovenska Bistrica, direction Ljubljana is closed.hno:
> 
> http://www.24ur.com/novice/slovenija/foto-zemeljski-plaz-zaprl-stajersko-avtocesto.html


Highway is open :applause:


----------



## Verso

kozorog said:


> Landslide on highway A1, section Slovenske Konjice-Slovenska Bistrica, direction Ljubljana is closed.hno:


More problems for Attus. I wonder, if he drives a red Toyota.


----------



## Attus

I drove a Toyota, but not this one  
We had to leave the motorway in this section. 

Šentvid tunnel was open at 11:50. 

We had a huge traffic jam inside Bled at about 4-5pm. Driving 6km in 55 minutes :-/ Se we were too late to visit LJ city center unfortunately and had to drive to Arena Stožice (Krim - FTC Champions League handball game) directly.


----------



## Verso

Attus said:


> We had a huge traffic jam inside Bled at about 4-5pm. Driving 6km in 55 minutes :-/


Typical Sunday in Bled.  There have been talks about a bypass for years (if not decades). Anyway, did you like it? You had great sunny weather.


----------



## Attus

Verso said:


> Typical Sunday in Bled.  There have been talks about a bypass for years (if not decades). Anyway, did you like it? You had great sunny weather.


Yes, it was beautiful, and yes, we had luck of the weather, that was beautiful as well. We ate Kremšnita, too  (I suppose all tourists do it ;-))
I will post some pictures later, now I'm very tired.


----------



## kozorog

kozorog said:


> Landslide on highway A1, section Slovenske Konjice-Slovenska Bistrica, direction Ljubljana is closed.hno:


>>>









by-http://www.zurnal24.si/stajerska-avtocesta-spet-prevozna-clanek-184003


----------



## keber

There is about 15-20 thousand cubic meters of soil in that landslide. Only two lanes out of three will be opened for now because rain is forecasted in second half of the week which could worsen situation.


----------



## Zagor666

A Slovenian "Vine" Card :cheers:


----------



## darko06

I can't see any roads on this map ...


----------



## Zagor666

darko06 said:


> I can't see any roads on this map ...


Then you had too much vine already


----------



## hofburg

found this in my archive: Trieste and Črni Kal viaduct


Trst Črni Kal by hofburgh4, on Flickr


----------



## cinxxx

from where is the picture taken?


----------



## hofburg

http://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=45...34234,0.084543&mra=mift&mrsp=0&sz=14&t=m&z=14

they are often rock climbing along this road.


----------



## stickedy

Great picture!


----------



## radi6404

very good motorways in Sloveni, the smoothest and softest asphalt i have driven on, my father said it is a pleasure for the driver to drive on the Slovenian motorways because of the smoothness and the quietness of the slovenian asphalt. The asphalt is very iet and even with high speeds the radio can e understood very well on our loud fiat coupé, that is totally different in Croatia.


----------



## Verso

We've missed your compliments, Radi.


----------



## radi6404

ofcourse, you can't say bad to something good.


----------



## Broccolli

Snow, traffic jams on slovenian highways 1 month ago







Road adventures on slovenian roads and highways







Mercedes SLS AMG warm engine sound in traffic jam on Slovenia highway


----------



## Marin85

When will u slovenians build the Trieste-Rijeka motorway? 
Did they decide the path?


----------



## Kazzo

Marin85 said:


> When will u slovenians build the Trieste-Rijeka motorway?
> Did they decide the path?


They didn't decide becuse the motorway there was never planed (if you mean the path of road G1-7).

Planes are for the path Razdrto (A1/H4) - Ilirska Bistrica - border HR or 
Postojna (A1) - Ilirska Bistrica to border HR or
Gabrk (A1/A3) - Ilirska Bistrica to border HR

They didn't decide yet.

http://www.pivka.si/dokument.aspx?id=3117


----------



## italystf

Kazzo said:


> They didn't decide becuse the motorway there was never planed (if you mean the path of road G1-7).
> 
> Planes are for the path Razdrto (A1/H4) - Ilirska Bistrica - border HR or
> Postojna (A1) - Ilirska Bistrica to border HR or
> Gabrk (A1/A3) - Ilirska Bistrica to border HR
> 
> They didn't decide yet.
> 
> http://www.pivka.si/dokument.aspx?id=3117


Do you know what your nick does mean in Italian?


----------



## keber

Marin85 said:


> When will u slovenians build the Trieste-Rijeka motorway?


Don't expect any serious construction in next 5 years.


----------



## Verso

Marin85 said:


> When will u slovenians build the Trieste-Rijeka motorway?


When we're rich again (decade or two). :lol:


----------



## Verso

^ You're welcome. :cheers:


As for the expressway to the Austrian A2: actually its routing depends on where it will run on the Slovenian side. If we build an expressway to Dravograd, Austrians should continue there, if we build it to Bleiburg, they should continue there. I think they could build an expressway to Bleiburg, because there are Ravne, Prevalje, and Mežica inbetween.


----------



## hofburg

Celje and St Andrä was already connected before 1900 with Lavanttalbahn, and also with Bleiburg with Drautalbahn


----------



## Verso

Bleiburg-Maribor railway still exists (trains on the Austrian side drive 20 km/h ), but that doesn't mean too much these days. Terrain between Bleiburg and Dravograd is very hilly for an expressway though, and most people live in Ravne, which would be pretty close to the future Dravograd-Celje expressway.


----------



## hofburg

yes I was just referring to what railway meant for 19st century motorway means for today or meant for 20. century, in this case we still need to catch up.


----------



## Broccolli

*3rd Axis*

Dravograd-Slovenj Gradec-Velenje-Šentrupert (A1)


----------



## Broccolli




----------



## Verso

^^ That Spanish bus at 11:33 went straight through red and could've killed someone. hno: (and didn't turn left at 11:46)


----------



## hofburg

great video, Gorenjska looks stunning. btw, pavement quality of Celovska cesta is horrible. I don't remember it being that bad.


----------



## kozorog




----------



## hofburg

just few pics from A2

Ljubno tunnel

2013-06-12-1169.jpg by hofburgh4, on Flickr

Triglav

2013-06-12-1175.jpg by hofburgh4, on Flickr

Sava bridge

2013-06-12-1208.jpg by hofburgh4, on Flickr


----------



## hofburg

Trziska Bistrica viaduct

2013-06-12-1159.jpg by hofburgh4, on Flickr

Moste viaduct

2013-06-12-1186.jpg by hofburgh4, on Flickr


----------



## Broccolli

*A2* (Novo mesto-Ljubljana)

*Ljubljana * (River Ljubljanica-Old city center-Ljubljana Castle)


----------



## Broccolli

*A2*

*Construction of new rest area and gas station*
*16.6.2013*

*1/2*


----------



## Broccolli

*2/2*


----------



## kozorog

A2 in a background village Ljubno and Julian Alps.


















by-bogdan118


----------



## hofburg

Verso said:


> I was waiting in front of the Karawanks Tunnel today on hot sun. It wasn't more than 20 minutes, but it felt like eternity.


I was doing the same thing a week ago, stuck behind a dutch camper  but weather was much more fresh. however, every time I go to Karavanke they are fixing it, annoying.


2013-06-12-1205.jpg by hofburgh4, on Flickr


2013-06-12-1209.jpg by hofburgh4, on Flickr


2013-06-12-1210.jpg by hofburgh4, on Flickr


----------



## Verso

I see they've changed "Sv. Jakob v R." into "Šentjakob v Rožu" (correct) and "St. Jakob i. R." into "St. Jakob im Rosental".


----------



## javimix19

Hello, today I have three questions:

- There are physical tolls in the motorways of Slovenia? I read since 2008 there is a vignette system, but the foreigners have to buy the vignette also?

- Ljubiana bypass is also tolled? I see in google maps and the legend is all the ring road tolled.

- The use of the vignette is only for the motorways or also for the expressways and other roads?

Thank you and have a nice day.


----------



## hofburg

vignette is obligated for all vehicles below 3,5 t, for all motorways and expressways, including Ljubljana ring. weekly costs 15€, monthly 30€.


----------



## Lankosher

Has the construction of tunnel Koper - Izola been suspended due to Alpine's bankruptcy? I haven't observed much movement around this building site.


----------



## kozorog

I got this on mail today. This happened somewhere on highway in Slovenia. As I was told, guys needed a bit under 15 minutes for 3-4km drive. It happened around 1 pm, and the temperatures were over 30 degrees.


----------



## kreden

igorlan said:


> Has the construction of tunnel Koper - Izola been suspended due to Alpine's bankruptcy? I haven't observed much movement around this building site.


Alpine's work is almost completely finished, so bankruptcy is not a big problem. The tender for electrical equipment is now out and until it is finished there will not be much movement there.


----------



## Broccolli

*Na Avtocesti - Auf Der Autobahn* :dj:


----------



## Broccolli




----------



## hofburg

*H4 from below*


DSC02099.JPG by hofburgh4, on Flickr


DSC02101.JPG by hofburgh4, on Flickr


----------



## hofburg

DSC02102.JPG by hofburgh4, on Flickr


DSC02112.JPG by hofburgh4, on Flickr


----------



## hofburg

DSC02114.JPG by hofburgh4, on Flickr


----------



## italystf

What's the official classification of the southern part of the LJ ringroad? Google says A1, Openstreetmaps A2 and Wikipedia says both.
I'm sure it was discussed before in this thread but I don't have time to browse 237 pages.


----------



## hofburg

distance sign near Ljubljana-jug exit says A1 E61 E70. I think it's A1 and A2 at the same time.


----------



## Verso

Officially A1, de facto both (and E70, but not E61).


----------



## Radish2

Broccolli said:


>


The mountains just after the tunnel look impressive, really steep mountain slopes.


----------



## Kazzo

italystf said:


> What's the official classification of the southern part of the LJ ringroad? Google says A1, Openstreetmaps A2 and Wikipedia says both.
> I'm sure it was discussed before in this thread but I don't have time to browse 237 pages.


A1

http://www.promet.si/portal/map/portal.aspx


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A2 was not signed when I was in Slovenia in 2009:


pic 087 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A map of Wikimedia.

A motorway between Ptuj and Ormož?


----------



## keber

It was planned in early 1990ies as an alternative to current A5. A new main road (2 lanes) is planned, mostly grade-separated. Completed are south bypass of Ptuj and north bypass of Ormož, nothing else. A construction west of Ormož began about three years ago (Google Maps satelite view, but works have stopped pretty soon and currently there are no news about continuing them. New road will go more to the south, parallel to existing hydroplant canal.

There are currently works on deviating main road east of Ormož over existing railway to make better connection to Čakovci, however this is part of a program of railway modernization.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ thanks.

Have there ever been talks about renumbering the G-road network (glavne ceste)? Some first class glavne ceste are unimportant such as G8, while the two longest main roads are from the second class routes (G102 and G106). 

I suppose they could be adopted into a single network numbered G1 - G20. 

It's also interesting to note that there are no G-roads in northeastern Slovenia. G109 is a very short route near Lendava and G2 projects east from Ptuj, but beyond that there is only A5. Have there been G-routes in that area before? I think A5 may have replaced a former route.


----------



## Puležan

ChrisZwolle said:


> A map of Wikimedia.
> 
> A motorway between Ptuj and Ormož?
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ia.svg/1000px-General_map_of_slovenia.svg.png





keber said:


> It was planned in early 1990ies as an alternative to current A5. A new main road (2 lanes) is planned, mostly grade-separated. Completed are south bypass of Ptuj and north bypass of Ormož, nothing else. A construction west of Ormož began about three years ago (Google Maps satelite view, but works have stopped pretty soon and currently there are no news about continuing them. New road will go more to the south, parallel to existing hydroplant canal.
> 
> There are currently works on deviating main road east of Ormož over existing railway to make better connection to Čakovci, however this is part of a program of railway modernization.


I would say the project extends from its local environment, because it's part of the bigger project together with the croatian part. Croatia plans to build similar type of road (1+1 expressway, grade separated) from the border near Ormož up to Varaždin. First stage (Varaždin southern bypass-D2) is already completed up to A4 motorway and it's an acces road for Varaždin city, but also an bypass of many villages near the town. So when we look at that road project, I think it is of bigger (than only local) significance because it connects Čakovec, Varaždin, Ormož, Ptuj and Maribor:cheers:


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ thanks.
> 
> Have there ever been talks about renumbering the G-road network (glavne ceste)? Some first class glavne ceste are unimportant such as G8, while the two longest main roads are from the second class routes (G102 and G106).
> 
> I suppose they could be adopted into a single network numbered G1 - G20.
> 
> It's also interesting to note that there are no G-roads in northeastern Slovenia. G109 is a very short route near Lendava and G2 projects east from Ptuj, but beyond that there is only A5. Have there been G-routes in that area before? I think A5 may have replaced a former route.


A5 replaced G1-3 and A4 replaced part of G1-1. G1-2 is also Ptuj-Slovenska Bistrica, and Ptuj-Gruškovje (HR) is G1-9.


----------



## keber

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ thanks.
> 
> Have there ever been talks about renumbering the G-road network (glavne ceste)? Some first class glavne ceste are unimportant such as G8, while the two longest main roads are from the second class routes (G102 and G106).


Sadly no. Numbering of non-motorway road network is made quite bureaucratic and was designed about 15 years ago. We have 5 classes of national road network, but as we now have quite extensive motorway and expressway network, not more than two classes would be needed - main and secondary road (glavna and regionalna cesta)


----------



## keber

Some news portals here suggest that governments plans increasing vignette price. Price increase of about 15 % is expected. Truck toll prices should increase too. More should be known in the evening.


----------



## darko06

Would be a better solution to extend H5 from future endpoint at southern entrance into tunnel Markovec to Dragonja? In that case it will be necessary to drill perhaps shorter tunnel Baredi instead of proposed tunnel Šalara? And there will be one expressway H5 Koper-Markovec-Izola (with connection to Piran)-Baredi-Dragonja instead of two parallel expressways (H5 Koper-Markovec-Izola-Piran and H6 Koper-Šalara-Dragonja).


----------



## keber

Tunnel would be even longer than proposed Šmarje tunnel + proposed cut&cover tunnel at H5-H6 interchange combined. Maybe in short term it would be a bit cheaper with less needed contstruction outside of the tunnel however with rising traffic density that would later cause problems when mixing local and transit traffic around Koper as tunnel Markovec has only four lanes and will already have 30-35.000 AADT in the beginning (annual traffic, not just summer). Combine that with about 10.000 AADT of transit to Istria and then multiply that with next 20 years (e.g. 3% annual growth) and you'll need another tunnel to bypass Koper.

Here is a map of officially accepted solution of H5.
http://www.dpa.mzip.gov.si/doc/Pregledna_HC_KP-Dragonja.pdf


----------



## darko06

So, as can be seen from this map, the main route (motoway/expressway without "left ramps") will go at "razcep" Škocjan from A5 to A6 Koper-Dragonja. The main route of the whole A1-H5-H6-CRO A9 motorway/expressway will be from Ljubljana (razcep Kozarje) to Pula (cloverleaf interchange).


----------



## Verso

H5 = Italy-Croatia, H6 = Koper-Lucija


----------



## darko06

Thanks.


----------



## italystf

I found two negative aspects on the signage around Ljubljana: first, not many foreigners know that sever=south and zahod=west; myself had problems the first time I drove there, second, there are some signs with Trst only instead of Trieste\Trst; I think that many non-slavs would have problems to identify it either.


----------



## Verso

Where did you see Trst-only signs? I don't think there are any. As for directions, I don't think many foreigners care about them, they only care about center.


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> Where did you see Trst-only signs? I don't think there are any. As for directions, I don't think many foreigners care about them, they only care about center.











from the previous page


----------



## Verso

That's by A1×A3, not Ljubljana. I don't think it's particularly problematic since you have "I" there as well, but I'd definitely add "Trieste" (it could be on one of the next signs, but I'm not sure).


----------



## keber

This is a sign from late 1990ies (and before). Those signs didn't have nothing else as Slovenian name.


----------



## Verso

There's Trieste from the other direction.


----------



## keber

A sticker with the name was added later.


----------



## eucitizen

italystf said:


> I found two negative aspects on the signage around Ljubljana: first, not many foreigners know that sever=south and zahod=west; myself had problems the first time I drove there, second, there are some signs with Trst only instead of Trieste\Trst; I think that many non-slavs would have problems to identify it either.


Sever is north


----------



## Verso

Yes, I didn't even notice it.

North = sever
South = jug
East = vzhod
West = zahod
Center = center, (središče, sredina)


----------



## hofburg

Minimal knowledge of local language for drivers is required in most countries. You don't see english names of sky directions in Italy either.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Cardinal directions are fairly similar in most Slavic countries though. Poland is a bit different with north and south, but otherwise it looks similar.


----------



## Verso

I have no idea how cardinal directions are called in Hungarian (I've heard, but I don't know which is which), but that doesn't bother me at all. If I'll go to Budapest or some other city, I'll go to the center.


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> South = jug


Jugoslavija = South Slavic Land


----------



## Verso

Yes (Bulgaria missing).


----------



## TurboEngine

^^

We are not Slavs :baeh3:


----------



## x-type

bozenBDJ said:


> ^^ _Two _A5 signs? :?:?:?


that sign was completely wrong. now there is correct sign which says H7 to Dolga vas and Lenti.


----------



## Verso

This is how it's now. 500 m before you also have small "I" and "SK" added.


----------



## bogdymol

*A5 motorway:*


----------



## bogdymol

*A1 motorway: Maribor - Ljubljana - exit to H4 expressway (to Nova Gorica):*





































Those annoying former toll booths for cars are still there. In some of them you have to drive with 30 km/h:





































The photographer's toe nails:


----------



## bogdymol




----------



## bogdymol

Exit to H4 expressway to Nova Gorica:










H4 is a beautiful expressway:























































Exit to hofburg's house:


----------



## hofburg

outstanding  could it be possible to get some full resolution photos?


----------



## bogdymol

hofburg said:


> could it be possible to get some full resolution photos?


Send me a PM with the picture(s) that you want and your e-mail address.


----------



## Verso

My favourite entry into Ljubljana:









http://www.siol.net/data/fotogalerije/slovenija/2010/07/odprtje_rondo_tomacevo.aspx


----------



## hofburg

it's not entry yet, you've still got time to head for Primorska


----------



## Verso

^^ Actually there's a sign for Ljubljana a few metres behind.  (personally I'd remove it, but anyway, it's there)


----------



## keber

Today new toll prices have been confirmed:

vignettes price change from December 1st 2013:
yearly for cars (with or without trailer) 95 -> *110 €*, monthly and weekly stay the same
new class is introduced for vehicles with more than 1,3 m height over first axle (read: *vans and caravans* with or without trailer): yearly *220 €*, monthly 80 €, weekly 40 €

For trucks and buses, tolls will be considerably higher from October 1st 2013, however it is difficult to say how much in percentage. At first glance I noticed price increase from 30 to 50%, depending of EURO machine type, also night discounts are cancelled.
New tariffs (in Slovenian only for now):
http://www.dars.si/Dokumenti/3_cenik_cestnine/Cenik cestnine od 1_10_2013 dalje.pdf


----------



## bogdymol

I find the prices quite high considering the size of the country and the price of vignettes in other countries.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Tourists driving high front vans will be most impacted. For example, VW Transporter and other RVs below 3.5 tonnes.


----------



## kreden

Campervans actually fall into the lower category: http://www.dars.si/Dokumenti/Toll/Changes_in_the_toll_rates_and_terms_of_payments_843.aspx



> VIGNETTES FOR CARAVANS AND TWO-TRACK MOTOR VEHICLES WITH VEHICLE HEIGHT ABOVE FRONT AX UP TO 1,30 M AND THE MAXIMUM AUTHORISED MASS NOT EXCEEDING 3.500 KG, WITH A TRAILER OR WITHOUT (INCLUDING VAT)
> 
> Yearly 110,00 EUR
> Monthly 30,00 EUR
> Weekly 15,00 EUR


Don't know about the old converted vans Germans really like though.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Ah, that is good. I bet you could expect a storm of criticism from Germany, NL and Scandinavia if campers had to pay € 40 for a transit trip to Croatia


----------



## keber

bogdymol said:


> I find the prices quite high considering the size of the country and the price of vignettes in other countries.


Size of the country does not have anything with toll price. Criteria of total motorway/expressway kilometers per taxpayer is much more comparable.


----------



## hofburg

I understand this second rise of prices in terms of the bad macroeconomic situation of the state, which is the owner of Dars and its 2 billions loan. If Slovenia would be in much better shape, the rise of prices probably wound't be necessary. And the cause of this bad economic shape mainly goes to the very same politic group, which formed the government from 2008 to 2011 that augmented the prices of vignette in the first place (in 2009).


----------



## Verso

^^ 55 € for a yearly vignette was just a populist price.  And in 2008 it wasn't even available, only 35 € for a 6-month vignette, which is like paying 70 € for a yearly vignette (still quite populist).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Are there other taxes Slovenian motorists have to pay for owning / driving a car in Slovenia? In the Netherlands we pay road tax, for me it's € 65 per month. Technically it's a car ownership tax, but is always referred to as road tax.


----------



## Verso

Yes, you pay once a year for roads and the car, price depending on the engine.


----------



## kreden

Yes, we pay road tax (and insurance). The most common group, cars with engines between 1350 and 1800 cc are charged €96 per year. Between 1800 and 2500 it's €153, the most expensive is above 5 liters, €565.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

kreden said:


> The most common group, cars with engines between 1350 and 1800 cc are charged €96 per year.


Damn, people may more than that per month for a small diesel engine passenger cars in the Netherlands... A 1200 kg diesel car costs € 1200 per year over here.


----------



## g.spinoza

I guess NL is the outlier. In Italy road taxes prices are much similar to Slovenia's. I pay arount 130€ per year for my 1.4l diesel car.


----------



## cinxxx

In Germany too I guess, I pay 58 euros per year for the Seat Leon. For the Audi A4 B5 I payed a lot more, over 300. But Diesel cars cost more.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

g.spinoza said:


> I guess NL is the outlier.


I sure hope so for drivers in other countries. The way how motoring is taxed varies per country, making direct comparisons difficult. Norway may be the only country in the world that gets as much tax revenue on newly sold cars as they do on fuel taxes.


----------



## hofburg

folks from NL could just register cars in Germany, problem solved


----------



## bogdymol

That's what I wanted to ask. Why don't you guys register your cars in the neighbouring countries? There are a lot of Romanians driving their cars that are registered in Bulgaria (because of the first registration tax which can sometimes exceed the value of the car).


----------



## hofburg

they like yellow plates?


----------



## Shenkey

keber said:


> Today new toll prices have been confirmed:
> 
> vignettes price change from December 1st 2013:
> yearly for cars (with or without trailer) 95 -> *110 €*, monthly and weekly stay the same
> new class is introduced for vehicles with more than 1,3 m height over first axle (read: *vans and caravans* with or without trailer): yearly *220 €*, monthly 80 €, weekly 40 €
> 
> For trucks and buses, tolls will be considerably higher from October 1st 2013, however it is difficult to say how much in percentage. At first glance I noticed price increase from 30 to 50%, depending of EURO machine type, also night discounts are cancelled.
> New tariffs (in Slovenian only for now):
> http://www.dars.si/Dokumenti/3_cenik_cestnine/Cenik cestnine od 1_10_2013 dalje.pdf


DARS income which shows this is stealing




> LETO: Prihodki od cestnin (amortizacija) - kilometrov vir: uradna javno objavljena letna poročila DARS
> 
> 2006: 151,3 ...
> 2007: 174,7 M€ (N/A) - 525,4 km
> 
> (uvedba vinjet po 55€) *Vignette start 55€*
> 2008: 201,6 M€ (N/A) - 528,4 km
> 2009: 237,9 M€ (N/A) - 591,2 km
> 
> (podražitev vinjet) vignette 95€
> 2010: 290,0 M€ (115 M€) - 606,6 km
> 2011: 298,5 M€ (142,5 M€) - 606,6 km
> 2012: 294,9 M€ (145 M€) - 607 km
> 
> Iz gornjih podatkov je več kot razvidno, da so pobrane cestnine (iz naslova vinjet kot tudi cestnin za tovorna vozila), po uvedbi vinjet občutno zrasle in, da je bila - glede na pričujoče prihodke - že prvotna cena vinjete v več kot zadostna za zagotavljanje primerljivih prihodkov kot pred uvedbo vinjet.
> 
> Dejstvo:
> - prihodki iz naslova cestnin so se v času od pred vinjetami do sedaj povečali za skoraj 100%
> - stroški plač so v vmesnem obdobju narasli z 26M€ na 32,6M€
> - potrebe po povišanju stroškov dela seveda ni, saj DARS za svoje poslovanje zaradi vinjet potrebuje manj zaposlenih kot prej





Verso said:


> ^^ 55 € for a yearly vignette was just a populist price.  And in 2008 it wasn't even available, only 35 € for a 6-month vignette, which is like paying 70 € for a yearly vignette (still quite populist).


leftist lying propaganda


----------



## hofburg

besides, Switzerland also has a populist vignette... anyway, I think in 2009 the pricing had to be changed, but not that much as it actually was (from 55 to 95€ for a year)


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## Verso

del


----------



## italystf

Do small Slovenian villages have street names?
I was wondering because in Trieste province many villages (with a consistent Slovenian population) don't have street names at all. You only have, as personal address, the village name followed by the house number: for example Duino 56, Dolina 120, Bagnoli 47,... instead of the usual street name + number + village.
This characteristic it's pretty rare in Italy, usually every street has its name even in villages. I was wondering if this come from the times those villages were united (ethnically and politically) with Slovenia during the empire. Trieste city and Muggia, traditionally Italian, have normal naming-numbering scheme.


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## kreden

No, most do not, just like Slovenian villages in Italy. Interesting how it's different, I never noticed that!


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## Verso

Many villages have just one road, so it's not a problem to find the right number, but many of them have several roads, so it can be difficult.


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## Autobahnftw

Hello, when will A4 between Ptuj and croatia be finished?


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## Verso

Who knows. :dunno:


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## celevac

These price increases for the vignette are totally unheard of. In exchange I expect tiny Slovenia to finally build A4 Ptuj-Gruškovje. 110 € a year for these few stretches of highway between A and HR is unreasonable. Especially if you consider the terrible conditions on route 9 (Ptuj-Gruškovje) and some other roads that take you to Croatia, paired with the obvious lack of interest to build roads towards the Croatian border. This is not just about money... this is pathetic, Slovenia!


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## Broccolli

^^

:troll: the same question and similar remarks on page 227 

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=98726257&highlight=#post98726257


----------



## senitelsi

celevac said:


> These price increases for the vignette are totally unheard of. In exchange I expect tiny Slovenia to finally build A4 Ptuj-Gruškovje. 110 € a year for these few stretches of highway between A and HR is unreasonable. Especially if you consider the terrible conditions on route 9 (Ptuj-Gruškovje) and some other roads that take you to Croatia, paired with the obvious lack of interest to build roads towards the Croatian border. This is not just about money... this is pathetic, Slovenia!



It's all about money you dumbass:nuts:. Transaction account (National Motorway Construction Programme): 06000-1112292412:lol:


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## keber

Verso said:


> Now I know why our vignettes are so expensive. :lol: Defining price according to length of motorways per km2 makes sense, but not per capita, at least I don't see it.


Capita = taxpayer. This counts, as taxpayers pay, not square kms. Square kms don't have any relation with money, taxpayers however do have. When you start to think with economy in mind and not populist nonsense it is easy to understand that.


----------



## navigator11

@Verso - keber has a point - square kms don't have any relation with money(regarding vignette prices).


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## Verso

keber said:


> Capita = taxpayer. This counts, as taxpayers pay, not square kms. Square kms don't have any relation with money, taxpayers however do have. When you start to think with economy in mind and not populist nonsense it is easy to understand that.


It's not just economy, otherwise riding trains would be much more expensive. And not only Slovenian tax payers buy Slovenian vignettes, foreigners buy them as well. I think we can all agree that all mentioned factors are important, at least they should be (unless you wanna pay €110 for 10 km, which you keep ignoring).


----------



## keber

Idiocracy at its best:
Ptuj - Ormož expressway, in planning procedure already from 1996, still does not have defined alignment around Lake of Ptuj.









Local communities - and all transit drivers too - want southern variant (which is logical, it goes away from settlements, its shorter, faster and cheaper to build). 

Northern variant is much longer, goes through settlements and has roundabouts.

Ministry however wants northern variant because southern part of artificial lake is in Natura 2000 although most of the area is farmland with intensive agriculture. There is nothing special about that specific area as there is almost 50 % of Slovenia inside Natura 2000.


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## Verso

If the expressway will run south of Lake Ptuj, then I don't see the point of the (relatively) new bridge north of it. This whole expressway is pointless to me. If anything, it should go to Varaždin, not Ormož (unless they are planning a Ptuj-Varaždin expressway via Ormož).


----------



## keber

It will go toward Varaždin some day - through Ormož. Traffic on Ptuj - Ormož road is pretty high already today.


----------



## Verso

^ 6,000-7,500 vpd (except in Ptuj).


----------



## keber

Which I consider pretty high because most of the road goes through settlements without sidewalks. New road would also take some traffic from R1-228 which also has about 4000 AADT. We are not talking about new 4-lane expressway but new main road, hopefully without roundabouts or leveled intersections.


----------



## Verso

Verso said:


> ^ 6,000-7,500 vpd (except in Ptuj).


Actually 6,000 vpd is more realistic as traffic to Borovci would keep using the existing road, but it's true about R1-228 (and better roads attract more traffic in general).


----------



## greyhound72

hofburg said:


> they like yellow plates?


I've heard that german cars is not too welcomed guests in the NL...


----------



## Eulanthe

A quick question about the previous distance-based tolling system. 

How much was the toll from Sentilj to Ptuj?

I'm reading yet another row on another forum about Slovenia requiring a vignette for that route - and it seems to me that they would be far better off introducing a 5 euro transit vignette (or - even better - work with Croatia and introduce a single vignette for the entire Sentilj-Zagreb route) than the current system. I noticed last time doing my usual Ptuj-Lenart-Mureck drive (with the bonus of being able to fill up with petrol in Mureck) that there are more and more cars using that route to avoid the vignette.

As for the A4 to the border - is it really needed? Once Croatia joins Schengen, I can't see there being much need for it at all. I was stuck there once, and that was all because of the border rather than the amount of traffic. Of course, the crossing at Rogatec was empty...


----------



## Verso

Eulanthe said:


> A quick question about the previous distance-based tolling system.
> 
> How much was the toll from Sentilj to Ptuj?


The A4 didn't yet exist, you only paid on the A1 at Pesnica (section Pesnica-Šentilj) €0.75 (in 2007) where you even paid for the H2.



Eulanthe said:


> As for the A4 to the border - is it really needed? Once Croatia joins Schengen, I can't see there being much need for it at all. I was stuck there once, and that was all because of the border rather than the amount of traffic. Of course, the crossing at Rogatec was empty...


AADT on the G1-9 is just 8,400-11,400 vpd, but it's an important road.


----------



## kozorog

New reststop for trucks, Murska Sobota-north on A-5.
























































New reststop Dul and Cikava on A-2.

Dul









Cikava


----------



## hofburg

http://goo.gl/maps/7MzDt



kozorog said:


> Viadukt Peračica
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vir-Ponting.si


----------



## hofburg

http://goo.gl/maps/KCx8R



kozorog said:


> Viadukt Ljubno
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Vir-Ponting.si
> 
> Viadukt Lešnica
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vir-Ponting.si


----------



## mpeculea

^^
great pictures. indeed


----------



## x-type

hofburg said:


>


what is this sign indicating?


----------



## Verso

Free/full parking spaces with numbers underneath?


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> Free/full parking spaces with numbers underneath?


obviously. now i see that on that photo there is probably only 2/5 of parking shown.


----------



## J.Zauner

Hello.

Whats about the A4 part from Ptuj to Gruskovje?
Start to building or will build in future?


----------



## kreden

One closer to hofburg's home:

http://goo.gl/maps/YAO2f


----------



## hofburg

first time I notice it  it should be more consistent then


----------



## Verso

With Europe's largest casino on the right.


----------



## keber

Current road closures because of avalanches, land slides, snow and ice:








Number of road closures is rapidly increasing, from time to time A1 can be completely closed.


----------



## Verso

Half-tunnel. 

http://goo.gl/maps/Vhxve


----------



## Gyorgy

^^ 

Road goes under the famous rock called "Igla". It has it's own legend.


----------



## Broccolli

Nice villages in direction Kranj-Škofja Loka 

http://goo.gl/maps/8UvnO


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> Half-tunnel.
> 
> http://goo.gl/maps/Vhxve


it seems like constructors intended to dig a tunnel there, but something went wrong


----------



## kozorog

Postojna.:nuts:

























Julian Alps










Kranjska Gora


----------



## Broccolli

Is this ergonomically modified slovenian shovel on the last picture?


----------



## Verso

Glaze is extreme, I'm having it on my terrace as well, I don't remember anything like that.


----------



## Gyorgy

kozorog said:


> Julian Alps


Tamar


----------



## bogdymol

kozorog said:


>


What can you do if your car gets like this? Take a hammer and try to hit softly the ice?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

bogdymol said:


> What can you do if your car gets like this?


Take the bus or hitchhike.


----------



## bogdymol

I was looking for a way to use the car before spring comes...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This will work too:


----------



## bogdymol

We'll test it on your car first


----------



## x-type

bogdymol said:


> We'll test it on your car first


he can, he is selling it soon


----------



## Kanadzie

ChrisZwolle said:


> This will work too:


You can actually buy similar things like this in the US using a 20lb propane tank (barbecue tank) for melting ice, it is more common in areas that are normally warm but sometimes have ice (Texas) as anywhere north, the water will freeze again 

We had cars covered in ice in '98 when we had similar weather here, breaking the ice was what was done, but you have to be extremely careful. If you can get the engine running (either by remote control or by breaking into the car), it helps some... you only need to crack the ice, the steel of the car is much more flexible than the ice so it will start breaking apart easily, but just be careful not to damage the paint... But for large panels, like doors, you can just push in the middle with your hand to crack the ice and it should fall off...


----------



## keber

bogdymol said:


> What can you do if your car gets like this? Take a hammer and try to hit softly the ice?


Rubber hammer will do nice.

As for the public transport near that car:


















About 100.000 homes are without electricity (they say probably most extensive damage to transmission lines in history), many roads even main are impassable, half of the railway lines are out of service for many days to come and 80% of the trees are damaged or destroyed.


----------



## Eulanthe

senitelsi said:


> Delay is purely of financial nature, government has no money, same with DARS(motorway company). In 2014/2015 DARS will repay two big parts of their loans and things will go smoother from there on, regarding new investments.


Is it really a priority though? It seems to me that filling in other gaps should come first, particularly as Croatia is by no means certain to join Schengen as long as Romania and Bulgaria are kept out.


----------



## kreden

What other gaps?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What is the status of the H5 construction at Izola?


----------



## keber

Currently construction is being restarted however expressway won't be finished this summer as there is still at least 6 months of work to do. Nothing else is in plan to do for this year except for renovations on some parts. Main task for Dars motorway company is to repay record 328 M€ of debt for this year (264 M€ for next year). So we can expect more interesting things in 2015.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Does anyone know if Železniška cesta between Ankaran and Koper is drivable in both directions? Google Maps & Street View suggest it is a one-way street or some unfinished construction.

My folks want to drive that route in a few weeks because they don't think 2 x 7 minutes of driving on H5 is worth € 30 in tolls.


----------



## andy276

It really is a one-way street, allegedly for political reasons (the mayor of Koper messing with the people of Ankaran for separating from Koper and forming their own municipality). 

You can still use roads 406 and 741 going south.


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## Pascal20a

I had thought the expressways arent under toll?


----------



## hofburg

http://youtu.be/f_CSikB4_zg


----------



## keber

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=...RAA&t=h&mra=dpe&mrsp=4&sz=16&via=1,2,3,4&z=14


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## Verso

In June they finally start building the rest of the A4.


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## Pascal20a

Thats amazing. Where stand this?


----------



## italystf

Pascal20a said:


> Thats amazing. Where stand this?


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=a4+motorway+slovenia


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> Does anyone know if Železniška cesta between Ankaran and Koper is drivable in both directions? Google Maps & Street View suggest it is a one-way street or some unfinished construction.
> 
> My folks want to drive that route in a few weeks because they don't think 2 x 7 minutes of driving on H5 is worth € 30 in tolls.


i took this route 10 days ago and it is ok.


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## MichiH

Verso said:


> In June they finally start building the rest of the A4.


An April Fool's Day joke.


----------



## Verso

:troll:


----------



## Eulanthe

Verso said:


> In June they finally start building the rest of the A4.




I don't think it will change much, although once Croatia enters Schengen, it will be absolutely vital to rebuild the toll plaza at Macelj. 

I wonder if Croatia and Slovenia will be intelligent enough to at least consider a one way vignette priced at 15 EUR + whatever the Croatian toll is?


----------



## italystf

x-type said:


> i took this route 10 days ago and it is ok.


Even shorter is this.


----------



## darko06

It seems that after completion of Slovenian A4 (sometime in 2018) and after Croatia joining Schengen (no earlier than 2018) the major obstacle at this route (Maribor-Zagreb) will be Krapina bypass with one-tubed Sv. Tri Kralja tunnel (cca 2000 m, semimotorway part is about 4 km long) and it won't be upgraded anytime soon, because aforementioned tunnel has an escape tunnel of smaller section in the profile of unexecuted western tube (Zagreb direction), so it is compliant to the EU road tunnel directive.


----------



## x-type

italystf said:


> Even shorter is this.


i know, but i didn't have GPS and signs at that intersection show only entrance to expressway, so i played on sure and wehnt through the port.


----------



## x-type

what is being built here? today at this place i saw huge embankment made.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/8...2!3m1!1s0x4765b7656de59cf1:0xede83ce0bda837f0


----------



## kreden

Brežice hydroelectric power station


----------



## Pascal20a

When will the A4 to the Croatian border be in construction?


----------



## keber

Oh, those three months from last question already passed?


----------



## Verso

You mean three weeks. :lol:


----------



## Broccolli

Nope cca. 30 minutes 

The same question on croatian thread :lol:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1169559&page=301


----------



## MichiH

Please don't feed the trolls...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some people believed he was a robot asking questions


----------



## Verso

Sounds about right...


----------



## darko06

The real obstacle will remain: after finishing Slovenian A4 there will be still about 5 kilometers of 1x1 semiexpressway near Krapina for the foreseeable amount of time, because single tube of the Sveta Tri Kralja tunnel was built according to the current EU tunnel directive, which means that it possesses smaller escape tube in place of projected second (western, i.e. Zagreb direction) tube.


----------



## toonczyk

I think the biggest problem is the border crossing, which completely clogs up in high season. As soon as Croatia joins Schengen Area (some time next year?), 1x2 sections won't be too much of a problem, as long as any physical obstacles (old customs checkpoints etc.) are bypassed or removed.


----------



## Pascal20a

Im not a robot i only wanna know it


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## Pascal20a

Pascal20a said:


> Im not a robot i only wanna know it


How much will be the construction time for the A4?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Pascal20a said:


> Im not a robot i only wanna know it


That's exactly what a robot would say.


----------



## Pascal20a

Im not a robot im a normal human nothing more


----------



## JackFrost

toonczyk said:


> As soon as Croatia joins Schengen Area (some time next year?),


is that really possible? would be great.


----------



## x-type

Captcha

in order to post further, write this code
x2Pk0


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## čarli1

toonczyk said:


> I think the biggest problem is the border crossing, which completely clogs up in high season. As soon as Croatia joins Schengen Area (some time next year?), 1x2 sections won't be too much of a problem, as long as any physical obstacles (old customs checkpoints etc.) are bypassed or removed.


The biggest problem is for now border, that's true. But when Croatia will join Schengen area (which I don't think it's gonna happend next year, more likely around 2018 and by then the missing part of A4 is gonna be built), then 2x1 is gonna be a real problem. The same problem existed when there was only one tube tunnel of Sv. Rok and Mala Kapela.


----------



## x-type

čarli;113353041 said:


> The biggest problem is for now border, that's true. But when Croatia will join Schengen area (which I don't think it's gonna happend next year, more likely around 2018 and by then the missing part of A4 is gonna be built), then 2x1 is gonna be a real problem. The same problem existed when there was only one tube tunnel of Sv. Rok and Mala Kapela.


neah, i don't think so. traffic at A2 in summer peaks is not as high as at A1. the larger problem would make toll station (it actually already does it).


----------



## MichiH

x-type said:


> neah, i don't think so. traffic at A2 in summer peaks is not as high as at A1. the larger problem would make toll station (it actually already does it).


How much time do you usually loose at the border in summer? Is there a (big) difference between weekends and in the week?

I guess the toll station is for Croatia, isn't it (btw: is there a vignette system in Croatia or do you have to pay for each section like in Italy)? Is it also possible to by the vignette for Slovenia there?


----------



## x-type

MichiH said:


> How much time do you usually loose at the border in summer? Is there a (big) difference between weekends and in the week?
> 
> I guess the toll station is for Croatia, isn't it (btw: is there a vignette system in Croatia or do you have to pay for each section like in Italy)? Is it also possible to by the vignette for Slovenia there?


depends about the (un)luck. yes, weekends are much more congested than working days.at peak weekends you can lose max 1h there (and next 1h at entering A1 after 60 km  )
in HR you pay tolls just as in Italy. vignette for Slovenia you can always buy at border crossings (also for Austria), or nearby service areas (also at many other places, but no need for expalining it now)


----------



## Verso

^^ If there's a queue of vehicles almost all the way to Maribor, then that's out of question. Although it's not that bad on Fridays, the road 689 turns off 6 km before the border.


----------



## Eulanthe

Verso said:


> ^^ If there's a queue of vehicles almost all the way to Maribor, then that's out of question. Although it's not that bad on Fridays, the road 689 turns off 6 km before the border.


The worst I've ever seen it (Saturday afternoon in summer, what a stupid time to go to Macelj...) - the queue was back to the A4. I didn't have a map, but I used some side roads to skip most of the queue. If I'd known about Dobovec/Rogatec... 

Incidentally, to the poster above - if you don't mind spending 15-20 minutes more, you can avoid the Slovenian vignette completely. If you want, I can explain the route 

(Verso will now kill me for depriving DARS of much needed revenue )


----------



## Verso

Eulanthe said:


> The worst I've ever seen it (Saturday afternoon in summer, what a stupid time to go to Macelj...) - the queue was back to the A4.


And almost the entire A4 on the worst days.


----------



## tfd543

Verso said:


> And almost the entire A4 on the worst days.


Interesting posts. But would Dobovec or Zavrc be the optimal alternative if Macelj is crowded ? Are these 2 borders always empty ? Propably yes, since people are not aware of them especially tourists.


----------



## celevac

tfd543 said:


> Interesting posts. But would Dobovec or Zavrc be the optimal alternative if Macelj is crowded ? Are these 2 borders always empty ? Propably yes, since people are not aware of them especially tourists.


Traffic coming from Zagreb towards Macelj is sometimes diverted to Dobovec border crossing at the Krapina exit in case of big traffic jams at Macelj. This actually happened to me twice last year - you had to leave the A2 in Croatia and were diverted to the D1 to Đurmanec and then D207 to Dobovec. 

On that Saturday afternoon in July 2013, even at Dobovec there was a 15 minute traffic jam. Just too many tourists on their way. 

You can also use Hum na Sutli/Rogatec crossing if you are a EU citizen - if Dobovec is crowded (coming from Croatia) just drive straight instead of crossing the border and follow the local road to Hum na Sutli along the border. There is practically no traffic on that border. 

There is also no traffic at Zavrč, but it takes forever to pass through the villages from the border to Varaždin. 40 km/h speed limit for most of the 25km. Don't recommend because of 60km detour and much longer driving time.


----------



## tfd543

celevac said:


> Traffic coming from Zagreb towards Macelj is sometimes diverted to Dobovec border crossing at the Krapina exit in case of big traffic jams at Macelj. This actually happened to me twice last year - you had to leave the A2 in Croatia and were diverted to the D1 to Đurmanec and then D207 to Dobovec.
> 
> On that Saturday afternoon in July 2013, even at Dobovec there was a 15 minute traffic jam. Just too many tourists on their way.
> 
> You can also use Hum na Sutli/Rogatec crossing if you are a EU citizen - if Dobovec is crowded (coming from Croatia) just drive straight instead of crossing the border and follow the local road to Hum na Sutli along the border. There is practically no traffic on that border.
> 
> There is also no traffic at Zavrč, but it takes forever to pass through the villages from the border to Varaždin. 40 km/h speed limit for most of the 25km. Don't recommend because of 60km detour and much longer driving time.



I see, I was more concerned the other way coming from SLO towards CRO.


----------



## celevac

tfd543 said:


> I see, I was more concerned the other way coming from SLO towards CRO.


I know. I don't think you would have to worry about traffic at Dobovec unless all the Germans and Austrians discover that border crossing coming from SLO :lol:


----------



## Verso

There certainly aren't any detour signs for Zagreb by Maribor to continue towards Ljubljana and get off the A1 motorway at Slovenska Bistrica-jug.


----------



## Broccolli




----------



## Eulanthe

tfd543 said:


> I see, I was more concerned the other way coming from SLO towards CRO.


Are you travelling with an EU family member? If so, you can also use Rogatec/Hum na Sutli. As an aside, if you're interested in the life at the border - you can get a good coffee at a little café next to the border in Rogatec 

But in general, you'll be fine with Dobovec on a Friday. 

As an aside, the only time my car was searched on the SLO/HR border was at Hum na Sutli. I imagine crossing to Croatia to buy a drink, walking back into Slovenia to get my car (parked nearby) and then driving into Croatia looked strange to them :lol:

Verso - it's really so bad as to fill up the entire A4? I never go on the motorway because I can do Klodzko (PL) to Mureck (on the A/SLO border) on a single tank of fuel - so Mureck is the perfect place to fill up for the final run to the coast while avoiding the Slovenian vignette.


----------



## MichiH

Eulanthe said:


> tank of fuel - so Mureck is the perfect place to fill up for the final run to the coast while avoiding the Slovenian vignette.


Is buying gas in Austria cheaper than in Slovenia and Croatia? :?


----------



## Eulanthe

MichiH said:


> Is buying gas in Austria cheaper than in Slovenia and Croatia? :?


Yep, last time I was there, the difference was about 15c a litre. 45 litre tank, so what - 6.75 Euro cheaper in Austria? Combine it with saving 15 Euro for the Slovenian vignette, so it works out at saving 20 euro for spending 20 more minutes on the diversionary route. I'm also fond of the river in Mureck 

As an aside, there are diversionary routes online via Maribor, but I strongly recommend against doing it. I did it last summer and it was awful - endless traffic lights in Maribor, and the road from Maribor to Ptuj took forever. In comparison, you can more or less fly through Slovenia on the Mureck-Lenart-Ptuj route. 

I keep saying it, but Slovenia, introduce a 5 Euro transit vignette and I'll pay!


----------



## Verso

Eulanthe said:


> Verso - it's really so bad as to fill up the entire A4?


Last year I remember it was 17 km of the A4 (30 km before the border).


----------



## x-type

Eulanthe said:


> Yep, last time I was there, the difference was about 15c a litre. 45 litre tank, so what - 6.75 Euro cheaper in Austria? Combine it with saving 15 Euro for the Slovenian vignette, so it works out at saving 20 euro for spending 20 more minutes on the diversionary route. I'm also fond of the river in Mureck


no way. Austria has more expensive fuel for years comparing to HR and SLO. you must have mistaken something.


----------



## hofburg

am I missing something? Austria has cheap fuel, at least cheaper than Slo. you just must not use motorway's tankstelles, it more expensive there.


----------



## cinxxx

Motorway gas stations in Austria are expensive, sometimes more expensive then gas stations in German cities. Fuel in cities or villages in Austria is cheaper then Slovenia, that is at least as I've seen it every time I drove to the 2 countries. When driving through Austria I mostly fuel up before leaving it, but last time I didn't want to loose time and I filled the tank in Novo Mesto, Slovenia.

About Croatia I didn't pay that much attention, since it's in Kunas and I had to fuel up there anyway, and 2-4 euros in vacation is not a big deal...


----------



## Broccolli

Vinjeta check und transit fahrer


----------



## Eulanthe

x-type said:


> no way. Austria has more expensive fuel for years comparing to HR and SLO. you must have mistaken something.


http://www.e-petrol.com.pl/index.php/international-market/fuel-prices-in-europe

There you go  Croatia is a bit cheaper, but my bank annoyingly converts first into Euro and then into Zloty, so it's a pain to fill up there if I don't have cash in Kuna.


----------



## stickedy

In Austria there are hugedifferences in fuel prices between the different states. So, in Kärnten it's about 10 Cent more expensive than in Salzburg.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

According to ÖAMTC the lowest prices for Euro 95 (Super) are in the € 1.33 - 1.36 range. That's almost a full 50 cents cheaper than the motorway gas price in the Netherlands.


----------



## andy276

It's unclear because DARS explicitly replied to reporters' questions at least once that you don't need the vignette there if you're not entering/leaving the motorway/expressway (here's an article in Slovene: http://www.siol.net/novice/slovenija/2012/02/vinjete_meje_in_rondoji.aspx). On the other hand, like you say, according to the signs you do need the vignette.


----------



## Eulanthe

andy276 said:


> It's unclear because DARS explicitly replied to reporters' questions at least once that you don't need the vignette there if you're not entering/leaving the motorway/expressway (here's an article in Slovene: http://www.siol.net/novice/slovenija/2012/02/vinjete_meje_in_rondoji.aspx). On the other hand, like you say, according to the signs you do need the vignette.


It seems really stupid - if they don't intend to control it, why are the vignette signs on the access roads? Why not just put the vignette signs on the sliproads to the motorways/expressways?

Same with the vignettes from the border - if they don't intend to control the section between the border line and the first point of sale, why are the signs from the border?

For what it's worth, I've always thought that vignette countries were always incredibly mean for tolling from the border without any means of escape.


----------



## hofburg

yes some situations are stupid, but what can you do. ideally vignette should be required from the first exit after the border or first vending point, and only on A and H roads without the two roundabouts that are only partly part of this roads. but the state wants to put transit on motorways, so maybe it is intentionally a bit tricky.

but luckily that's only where they do checks, you won't see checks before first exit after the border and on these two roundabouts. 

for Pesnica roundabout, there is a short alternative road very close to roundabout you can use to bypass it.


----------



## Verso

hofburg said:


> for Pesnica roundabout, there is a short alternative road very close to roundabout you can use to bypass it.


Only for bicycles and tractors.

http://goo.gl/maps/doL7i


----------



## Eulanthe

hofburg said:


> yes some situations are stupid, but what can you do. ideally vignette should be required from the first exit after the border or first vending point, and only on A and H roads without the two roundabouts that are only partly part of this roads. but the state wants to put transit on motorways, so maybe it is intentionally a bit tricky.


I'm actually surprised they haven't included the Ptuj bypass with the bridge as a vignette road to discourage those that use Mureck-Lenart-Ptuj to avoid the vignette. 

But what I hate most about the Slovenian policy is how mean they are in some areas. The Pesnica roundabout is a great example - there is absolutely nothing to warn you that you're about to enter a road that requires a vignette when you come from Sentilj until you pass the point of no return. There's nothing on the direction signage, nothing on the previous roundabout, nothing at the last junction. 



> for Pesnica roundabout, there is a short alternative road very close to roundabout you can use to bypass it.


You can't use it, the signage makes it clear. Everyone does though - does anyone know what the fine would be for using such a road? 

The alternative route is easy enough though - I really don't know why anyone would bother with the vignette when going from Sentilj to Maribor.


----------



## andy276

Eulanthe said:


> You can't use it, the signage makes it clear. Everyone does though - does anyone know what the fine would be for using such a road?


I think it's 160€. Still, it seems a bit stupid to avoid breaking the law by breaking the law.


----------



## cougar1989

Last week I made a little roadtrip, here are the pictures


----------



## cougar1989




----------



## hofburg

something's wrong with the sequence of photos in the last post, between no.4 and 5


----------



## Verso

^^ I don't see anything wrong.



cougar1989 said:


>


They've removed Slovakia (and Italy) from the signs.  Probably also Romania in the other direction.


----------



## hofburg

he teleported from Lendava to Slivnica


----------



## Verso

That's interchange Dragučova, not Slivnica. Yes, he didn't make any photo inbetween, but other than that the order is correct.


----------



## hofburg

feel like a loser now


----------



## HRHB

Verso said:


> They've removed Slovakia (and Italy) from the signs.  Probably also Romania in the other direction.


I knew there was something missing


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

When is the 2nd tube of tunnel Karavanke going to be U/C ?


----------



## KingNick

No date yet, but construction should be finished by 2019 (EU law requires to have two tubes by that time or at least an emergency tunnel if there's no second tube). This doesn't mean though that both tubes will be operational all the time. Most likely the current tube will serve as an emergency exit and the new tube will carry the whole traffic. The old tube, once it's renovated, will only be used in case traffic exceedes 20,000 vehicles per day (~8000 atm) respectively in the holiday season.


----------



## Verso

We don't have money for basic maintenance of roads, but we have it for this luxurious second tube with 8,500 AADT? :nuts: But that's when rich guys in Brussels take decisions and expect member states to finance them. I know we could just build an escape tube, but even that's too expensive right now IMO.


----------



## Eulanthe

Verso said:


> We don't have money for basic maintenance of roads, but we have it for this luxurious second tube with 8,500 AADT? :nuts: But that's when rich guys in Brussels take decisions and expect member states to finance them. I know we could just build an escape tube, but even that's too expensive right now IMO.


Do what the French do - ignore it and laugh at the EU when they complain.

Having said this, wouldn't there be the possibility to do what the French did with Mont Blanc and simply use underneath the roadway as an emergency escape?


----------



## MichiH

Eulanthe said:


> Do what the French and Germans do - ignore it and laugh at the EU when they complain.


----------



## Attus

Yeah. But unfortunately countries that receive co-financing from the EU can not do it for in this case EU cuts financing or even stops it completely. Not only for that certain project.


----------



## Eulanthe

KingNick said:


> The plan is that there is no concrete plan to this moment with regards of what to do with the old tube (ASFINAG favours it to remain a emergency exit). All you find in the 2013-2018 framework is the construction of the second tube but nothing else.


How on earth did the Karawanke tunnel get in such a bad state after not more than 20 years? 

Is it also a problem on the Austrian side?

Keeping the old tube as an emergency tunnel must be the bare minimum, in my opinion. Even if there's no money to keep it up to a wonderful standard, it shouldn't cost that much to build frequent exits to the emergency tunnel with airlocks and fire doors.


----------



## Karaya

Geology is problematic on our (slovenia) side AFAIK. I don't mind if second tube is closed most of the time (and save some money) but I guess you need an additional escape tube if you have both tubes open for traffic?


----------



## čarli1

Karaya said:


> Geology is problematic on our (slovenia) side AFAIK. I don't mind if second tube is closed most of the time (and save some money) but I guess you need an additional escape tube if you have both tubes open for traffic?


No, you don't need additional escape tube if you have both tubes open for traffic


----------



## Eulanthe

Karaya said:


> Geology is problematic on our (slovenia) side AFAIK. I don't mind if second tube is closed most of the time (and save some money) but I guess you need an additional escape tube if you have both tubes open for traffic?


No need - in the event of an emergency, the red lights should go on at the entry to the second tube, and travellers from the first tube would be able to escape reasonably safely into the second tube. 

The problem with tunnels in general is that a second emergency tube isn't foolproof - there were what, 12 deaths at St Gotthard despite the presence of a second emergency tunnel. 

The best solution would be to have two unidirectional tunnels open at all times, But if the Austrians and Slovenians don't see the demand for it, then keeping the old tube as a summer only/emergency tunnel makes sense. 

I do think all tunnels over 5km should have an emergency fire engine stationed at the halfway point of the tunnel. Mont Blanc has such a thing now, and I think it makes perfect sense.


----------



## Pascal20a

Is that right that one part of the A4 to the Croatian border will be in construction in December?


----------



## Eulanthe

Pascal20a said:


> Is that right that one part of the A4 to the Croatian border will be in construction in December?


Allegedly.

But seeing as the Slovenian highway authority doesn't have money to maintain the roads, I think it's highly likely that nothing will start then. 

More to the point, the A4 isn't desperately needed. Traffic (apart from on summer Saturdays) doesn't justify anything more than a single carriageway motorway as it stands.


----------



## kreden

Eulanthe said:


> Allegedly.
> 
> But seeing as the Slovenian highway authority doesn't have money to maintain the roads, I think it's highly likely that nothing will start then.
> 
> More to the point, the A4 isn't desperately needed. Traffic (apart from on summer Saturdays) doesn't justify anything more than a single carriageway motorway as it stands.


The Directorate for state roads is broke. However Dars, the motorway company, is doing OK.


----------



## Eulanthe

kreden said:


> The Directorate for state roads is broke. However Dars, the motorway company, is doing OK.


Ahh, I thought it was DARS that was in trouble. 

Won't they just take money from DARS, though?


----------



## Karaya

^^It's very possible. Then DARS projects will be in trouble. BTW, Directorate for state roads is broke because they took their money and gave it to railroad infrastructure. :nuts:


----------



## kreden

Eulanthe said:


> Ahh, I thought it was DARS that was in trouble.
> 
> Won't they just take money from DARS, though?


Dars is a company and while it is owned by the state, it's not part of the public sector or funded by the state budget, so they can't just take money from Dars and give it to a government department.


----------



## Shenkey

Eulanthe said:


> Ahh, I thought it was DARS that was in trouble.
> 
> Won't they just take money from DARS, though?


State is already extracting around 100% of profit from state companies, thus removing their potential for growth. Luckly for DARS, there is almost no profit.

Some of them, even had liquidity problems because of this.


----------



## Karaya

Actually DARS had 327M € of total income and 47M € net profit in year 2013 and yes, the government wants that money.

Page 17, http://www.dars.si/Dokumenti/1_letna_porocila/LP DARS_2013 v6_slo_web.pdf


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

I can't find anywhere, so if you guys can tell me when A3 was completed?


----------



## Karaya

In 1997.

http://www.dars.si/Dokumenti/O_avtocestah/Obstojece_AC_in_HC/A3_Gabrk_-_Fernetici_107.aspx


----------



## x-type

help!
i've gone into discussion about tolled motorways in SLO with some guy at another forum. doubtful sections are:

A4 around b/c Gruškovje (yes, those few hunderds of metres)
A4 from G9 to exit Draženci (again few hunderds of metres)
roundabout Pesnica

tolled or not? only reliable information please.

also, is the sign for vignette the only real indicator of tolled road? no sign - no toll? or something else?


----------



## phiberoptik

x-type said:


> help!
> i've gone into discussion about tolled motorways in SLO with some guy at another forum. doubtful sections are:
> 
> A4 around b/c Gruškovje (yes, those few hunderds of metres)
> A4 from G9 to exit Draženci (again few hunderds of metres)
> roundabout Pesnica
> 
> tolled or not? only reliable information please.
> 
> also, is the sign for vignette the only real indicator of tolled road? no sign - no toll? or something else?


Both stretches don't have sign for vignette and they are free to drive - few times stated by slovenian DARS and newspapers and croatian newspapers (this is the first sign for obligatory vignette, only after Ptuj-vzhod exit: streetview). Same goes for roundabout under A1 on A1/H2 junction, although several years ago it was tolled (even there are non DARS roads that join the roundabout)


----------



## x-type

that's what i said too.
can somebody else confirm? Slovenians?


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

The stretches are free.An uncle who lives near Ptuj told me that.


----------



## hofburg

Pesnica is de facto without toll, de jure with toll 

other 2 examples are "in my opinion" without toll


----------



## Eulanthe

x-type said:


> help!
> i've gone into discussion about tolled motorways in SLO with some guy at another forum. doubtful sections are:
> 
> A4 around b/c Gruškovje (yes, those few hunderds of metres)
> A4 from G9 to exit Draženci (again few hunderds of metres)
> roundabout Pesnica
> 
> tolled or not? only reliable information please.
> 
> also, is the sign for vignette the only real indicator of tolled road? no sign - no toll? or something else?


The area around Ptuj is definitely without vignette. It's not marked as A4 in any way (entering from the Ptuj bypass, you see the A4 is crossed out), and the sign you posted isn't there. Heading north on the G9, the A4 doesn't start until the Drazenci. 

What A4 around Gruskovje? Do you mean on entry from the Ptuj bypass?

Pesnica - I wouldn't trust DARS regardless of what they say in public. The facts on the ground are clear - you pass a sign indicating vignettes required. But to make it slightly more complicated, at the start of the H2, there's another sign indicating it, as well on entry to the A1.

Until the signs are removed from the non-motorway/expressway approach roads to the roundabouts, I'd consider it to be de jure under vignette rules. Given the reports of DARS being ruthless, I would be very, very reluctant to risk it. But from a practical point of view, they have nowhere there to conduct the controls - so you'd probably get away with it.

As for the sign - my understanding is that the sign confirms entry to a tolled road. There must be a legal basis for it somewhere...


----------



## Verso

Eulanthe said:


> What A4 around Gruskovje? Do you mean on entry from the Ptuj bypass?


No, he means 0.56 km of a "motorway" on the border checkpoint. No, you don't need a vignette for that thingy.


----------



## kreden

Dars obtained the construction permit for a 7-kilometre stretch of the A4, from Ptuj to Podlehnik. The construction tender will be out soon with work starting next spring. The entire stretch should be finished by 2018.


----------



## g.spinoza

Which route would you guys recommend going from Italy to Ljubljana? Fernetti-A3-A1 or Gorizia-H4-A1? Length should be more or less the same.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

The better route is A3-A1


----------



## hofburg

Gorizia variant has less traffic and no raccordo's  but keep in mind the last rest area in Italy to buy vignette is already before Palmanova


----------



## italystf

g.spinoza said:


> Which route would you guys recommend going from Italy to Ljubljana? Fernetti-A3-A1 or Gorizia-H4-A1? Length should be more or less the same.


Via Gorizia there's a long stretch with 110 speed limit. Since you took part to the clinched highway project, you should use one route to go and the other to come back, so you increase the number of highways travelled.


----------



## Verso

hofburg said:


> Gorizia variant has less traffic and no raccordo's  but keep in mind the last rest area in Italy to buy vignette is already before Palmanova


You can buy it right after the border where you don't need it yet.


----------



## yohaniv

H4 is 2km shorter and 80m lower at highest point. But if you keep to designated speed (around 100) you lose couple of minutes. A3 should be faster (around 130). Both routes are quite scenic. It is your choice.


----------



## celevac

This is what the old road between Draženci and Gruškovje now looks like after another tourist season: hno:


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

It's not in best condition .


----------



## Verso

You can avoid it by driving on the other side of the road. :troll:


----------



## Karaya

This road is not bad but it needs some patching here and there.


----------



## kreden

I see plenty of patching in that photo.


----------



## Karaya

Indeed the road surface is bad but the geometry is excellent. In fact, it's so good that it will be used for the future IMO unnecessary motorway.


----------



## hofburg

only in few places looks like this. overall is in a decent shape (according to google street view).


----------



## RipleyLV

Guys, you haven't seen bad roads.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

They haven't been in Serbia.


----------



## Shenkey

Whenw e were driving with friends though Belgrade to Montenegro we punctured a tire in the hills. So many stones on the road


----------



## italystf

celevac said:


> This is what the old road between Draženci and Gruškovje now looks like after another tourist season: hno:


I saw a road in such condition even in Austria. It was a local road in a very rural part of Burgenland, though. But still, it's against the usual stereotype of Austria being a tidy country.


----------



## MichiH

^^ The road looks not extreme bad. There are many roads in Germany in simular or worse situation (for years). Of course, it's common in Eastern Germany but I talk about Western Germany. Roads with AADT 8,000+. There are many roads in cities with worse situation.


----------



## italystf

MichiH said:


> ^^ The road looks not extreme bad. There are many roads in Germany in simular or worse situation (for years). Of course, it's common in Eastern Germany but I talk about Western Germany. Roads with AADT 8,000+. There are many roads in cities with worse situation.


^^ Not to mention southern Italy. hno:


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> I saw a road in such condition even in Austria. It was a local road in a very rural part of Burgenland, though. But still, it's against the usual stereotype of Austria being a tidy country.


There're plenty of roads like that in Austria, it's really not that bad, it's just that this road should be better for its importance. Drive Villach-Kranjska Gora, now that's an embarrassment for Austria (regardless that it's not so important).


----------



## cinxxx

Verso said:


> Drive Villach-Kranjska Gora, now that's an embarrassment for Austria (regardless that it's not so important).


I drove that last year, it was, as you say, in very bad condition.
On Slovene side it was good.


----------



## hofburg

it's more reasonable to compare entire road network rather than one particular road.


----------



## Verso

No need for that, no one sane will say that Slovenian roads are better than Austrian.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

Well overall quality of the motorways and paving is in my opinion better in Slovenia then in Austria.


----------



## hofburg

it's a tough call. also situation in Austria is improving, some surfaces only 'feel' worse because they are concrete (sometimes very old though - but durable) and not asphalt. in Slovenia maintaining of motorways actually exists, and overall surface quality is decent, then again I don't dare you to drive A1 Arja vas - Hoče, you would change your opinion in a second.


----------



## patakcze

hofburg said:


> then again I don't dare you to drive A1 Arja vas - Hoče, you would change your opinion in a second.


I've driven the whole A1 a few times and hasn't found anything wrong with that section. I'd even dare to say, that all sections of A1 are nearly perfect.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

I think that you're right.


----------



## Shenkey

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> Well overall quality of the motorways and paving is in my opinion better in Slovenia then in Austria.


Germany, yes

but not Austria


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

I have a question.How much vehicles use H7 daily?


----------



## hofburg

http://www.dc.gov.si/fileadmin/dc.gov.si/pageuploads/Promet/Promet2013/Prometne_obremenitve_2012.pdf

~4000-5000


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

From some resson i thought that the number is much lower.


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> There're plenty of roads like that in Austria, it's really not that bad, it's just that this road should be better for its importance. Drive Villach-Kranjska Gora, now that's an embarrassment for Austria (regardless that it's not so important).


Is it the road that has a "drive in 1st gear" sign? :nuts:


----------



## Verso

^^ Yep. There's also a tank by the road just in case.


----------



## čarli1

celevac said:


> This is what the old road between Draženci and Gruškovje now looks like after another tourist season: hno:


Bad news. New minister for roads (new government will be appointed soon) says that we don't need motorway in this section.
http://www.rtvslo.si/lokalne-novice...a-obvoznica-izjava-zaljiva-za-halozane/346603


----------



## Verso

^^ The new minister IMO isn't worth quoting, čarli. :lol: There're just too many stupid things he said.


----------



## čarli1

Verso said:


> ^^ The new minister IMO isn't worth quoting, čarli. :lol: There're just too many stupid things he said.


True But if he has power to stop this then is terriblehno:


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> ^^ Yep. There's also a tank by the road just in case.


It's incredible that it was a major European artery until 1991 (when Karavanken tunnel opened). I wonder how could heavy vehicles cope with a 18% gradient, let alone in winter. Probably most traffic went via Tarvisio or Loibltal back then.


----------



## keber

čarli;117448900 said:


> True But if he has power to stop this then is terriblehno:


I don't see a problem. He was immediately attacked heavily from all political parties and all traffic and logistic lobbies.:storm:
He will reconsider very soon.


----------



## Karaya

The tunnel is almost finished but the part on Izola side is falling behind. It won't be finished before the end of the year. They are currently working on this roundabout:










Sry for bad quality:


----------



## MichiH

DEL


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> How is the H5 project Koper - Izola progressing? I haven't heard a lot about it recently. It was supposed to be completed sometime 2014.


No, 2015. Btw, it's H6.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

Is there any section of a motorways or expressways which is going to be U/C soon?


----------



## Verso

Perhaps A4 this year, but we'll see.


----------



## italystf

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> Is there any section of a motorways or expressways which is going to be U/C soon?


AFAIK the only planned motorways and expressays are H5 from Koper to HR and A4 from Ptuj to HR. I don't know when works will start, though, I hope soon since both are critical missing links from an European prospective.
There was some proposal of a link between Illirska Bistrica (A1) and the Croatian border at Rupa but I don't think it's a concrete proposal.
It would be useful to have also a link between Divaca (A1xA3) and Rupa border crossing, that will be part of the Adriatic-Jonian motorway connecting Italy and Greece via SLO, HR, BIH, MNE and AL. However SLO seems to have no interest in building this route.


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> It would be useful to have also a link between Divaca (A1xA3) and Rupa border crossing, that will be part of the Adriatic-Jonian motorway connecting Italy and Greece via SLO, HR, BIH, MNE and AL. However SLO seems to have no interest in building this route.


No, because that would be too many motorways on such a small territory (detour via Postojna isn't that long). The only direct motorway between Trieste and Rijeka would be via Kozina, but that's too long for us (unless you guys finance it). Then Italy would also have to build a motorway between Trieste and Pesek, and Croatia between Rupa and Pasjak. Connection between Rijeka and Trieste won't be that good, but between Rijeka and Venice it will be fine via Postojna. It's not the end of the world; look at the curve between Ljubljana and Nova Gorica (i.e. between Logatec and Ajdovščina) via Postojna. Or in Switzerland between Bern and Lucerne via Olten.


----------



## Karaya

italystf said:


> It would be useful to have also a link between Divaca (A1xA3) and Rupa border crossing, that will be part of the Adriatic-Jonian motorway connecting Italy and Greece via SLO, HR, BIH, MNE and AL. However SLO seems to have no interest in building this route.


Have you seen traffic on Croatian A7, Rupa - Rijeka. It's very low. Makes no sense to build motorway there. 30km, difficult terrain, low traffic, 15 millions € / km, that makes 400-500 millions €. Anyone?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Traffic volumes on G6 and G7:


----------



## italystf

ChrisZwolle said:


> Traffic volumes on G6 and G7:


Wow, they make AADT statistics even about local roads!


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> Wow, they make AADT statistics even about local roads!


No, all those roads are at least "regional" officially. Unless you mean "local" colloquially.


----------



## darko06

Interesting. From Koper in direction Dragonja there is greater AADT than on A3 Divača-Sežana. How about building at least 3 kms of expressway from H5 to Dragonja, to avoid that terrific rondabout and a couple of traffic lights?


----------



## Verso

darko06 said:


> Interesting. From Koper in direction Dragonja there is greater AADT than on A3 Divača-Sežana.


That's not surprising since G1-11 runs through Koper.


----------



## keber

darko06 said:


> Interesting. From Koper in direction Dragonja there is greater AADT than on A3 Divača-Sežana. How about building at least 3 kms of expressway from H5 to Dragonja, to avoid that terrific rondabout and a couple of traffic lights?


A3 has much much larger share of truck traffic. And if you'd count traffic to Dragonja right now, it would be far away from above numbers


----------



## Verso

Is this a grassy rest area (parking) or what? I assume so because of the broken side line (also at the end of the parking).


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

I think that this is a parking.


----------



## Verso

Rest area Voklo on A2 by Kranj:









http://www.delo.si/novice/kronika/nove-table-na-pocivaliscu-opozarjajo-na-varnost.html

Text is in Slovenian, English, German, Italian, Hungarian, and Croatian.


----------



## Kanadzie

Slovene thieves are really crafty! In America someone would just point a gun at you and take your car... no intellectual factor...


----------



## bigic

Is there a higher resolution photo of this sign?


----------



## SRC_100

Kanadzie said:


> Slovene thieves are really crafty!


I really doubt they are Slovenians...


----------



## x-type

bigic said:


> I have always wondered what's the purpose of them?


i ahve always wondered how some countries can have roads without them :nuts: (RO, BG)


----------



## cinxxx

^^Trust me, it's not fun to drive those roads at night.
Fortunately I don't have to drive much from the border to Timisoara...


----------



## Verso

http://goo.gl/maps/Gu0uY

I've just noticed that the motorway sign is missing on the A5 upon entering Slovenia from Hungary.


----------



## AcidMan

Verso said:


> http://goo.gl/maps/Gu0uY
> 
> I've just noticed that the motorway sign is missing on the A5 upon entering Slovenia from Hungary.


I think the Lendava-Dolga Vas section is the only one on A5, where you can drive 130 kmh. At these junctions you can see the m-way signs when you enter the road.


----------



## hofburg

and Maribor (Dragučova)-Lenart and state border-Pince westbound


----------



## Verso

hofburg said:


> and Maribor (Dragučova)-Lenart and state border-Pince westbound


Only Dragučova-Pernica and Pince-Hungary eastbound (those 0.4 km). Westbound, if there's no motorway sign, it technically means 90 km/h until the interchange from Pince. :lol:


----------



## hofburg

I don't see a sign 130 limit or limit cancelation at Pince?


----------



## Verso

You don't need it. You'd need a sign for 110 km/h (or whatever), but there isn't any.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*A5 Slovenia*


----------



## Broccolli

*H6* 

(4:44-6:30)


----------



## Motorway Fan

Public tender for construction of first part of A4 to Gruškovje has been published today.


----------



## Verso

New fog signs:



























http://i.imgur.com/iHgBILT.jpg


----------



## x-type

i will never understand why Italians have left those signs (Italy was the first country where I saw it). 
i also think that they have removed it here in Croatia. pitty, i like those signs.


----------



## Verso

I just hope foreigners won't start driving 50 km/h in clear weather.


----------



## Nordic20T

These signs are well known also from Austria, but there the speed limit is lower (60|40km/h). 
@Verso: And as long as you aren't a "pictogram-illiterate"...


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> I just hope foreigners won't start driving 50 km/h in clear weather.


no way. _nebbia_ was one of the first italian words that i have learnt due to these signes.


----------



## keber

I drove today passing this part with new halh circles - yes, it is just one part, and yes - visibility is shitty because those half circles are on brighter asphalt.


----------



## kozorog

--


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

x-type said:


> i will never understand why Italians have left those signs (Italy was the first country where I saw it).
> i also think that they have removed it here in Croatia. pitty, i like those signs.


I saw a couple of them on A1 between Zagreb and Karlovac.


----------



## Puležan

x-type said:


> i also think that they have removed it here in Croatia. pitty, i like those signs.





Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> I saw a couple of them on A1 between Zagreb and Karlovac.


No, those signs were removed after A1 was extended further south from Karlovac (maybe few years after). I've been travelling a lot on A1 for the last 6 years and certainly there's not even 1 such sign on ZG-KA section! I don't know why they removed it :dunno: Also, I haven't seen such signs on other motorways in Croatia and I don't know if they even existed on some of them (maybe on A3 and A4)...


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> Slovenia imitating Italy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.izzauvivnka.si/2013/04/dolina-dragonje-in-abitanti.html


At least there's a gravel shoulder to stop and read the sign carefully. :lol:


----------



## celevac

Hilarious  

Actually, what about that border crossing if you continue on road 626 towards Croatia? Is it for Slovenian and Croatian citizens only? Looks quite interesting from what you can see on Google Street View!


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> At least there's a gravel shoulder to stop and read the sign carefully. :lol:


Yes, you don't wanna end up in Tunis(i). :troll:



celevac said:


> Hilarious
> 
> Actually, what about that border crossing if you continue on road 626 towards Croatia? Is it for Slovenian and Croatian citizens only? Looks quite interesting from what you can see on Google Street View!


Brezovica pri Gradinu/Lucija is a local border checkpoint and open 6-22h.


----------



## keber

Those partly abandoned villages are really nice and scenic cycling tours especially in this time.


----------



## Verso

H6 Koper-Izola should be opened on 18th May.

http://www.rtvslo.si/lokalne-novice/90-dni-za-dokoncanje-hitre-ceste-koper-izola/358573


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> H6 Koper-Izola should be opened on 18th May.
> 
> http://www.rtvslo.si/lokalne-novice/90-dni-za-dokoncanje-hitre-ceste-koper-izola/358573


Izola bypass between tunnel Markovec and Jagodje will remain G111 and toll free, or it will become tolled and designated as H6?


----------



## keber

That is still not known. But next (and last) section of H6 to be built, Jagodje-Lucija is on the other side of Izola so in the end Izola bypass will surely become H6.


----------



## Broccolli

:soon:









http://www.dars.si/Novice/Podpis_pogodbe_za_dokoncanje_del_na_trasi_HC_Koper_–_Izola_1244.aspx


----------



## Verso

Golden tunnel, now I know why they needed so long to build it.


----------



## Broccolli

Verso said:


> Golden tunnel, now I know why they needed so long to build it.


Of course, and do not forget, it is the only tunnel in Slovenia with some Hollywood experiences..


----------



## Verso

icard:


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

Road trip from Linz to serbian border.


----------



## Verso

Truck tries to drive over a pedestrian bridge in Kranj:









http://www.delo.si/novice/kronika/pod-tezo-tovornjaka-se-je-zrusil-most-cez-kokro.html

icard:


----------



## [atomic]

should have gone faster because it looks like he almost made it:banana::lol:


----------



## celevac

News about A4 - newspaper article from yesterday: 

http://www.delo.si/gospodarstvo/infrastruktura/drazencindash-gruskovje-prek-prve-revizije.html

Google Translate did a lousy job with this article so I am not sure what is actually going to happen. If I understood correctly, there seem to be some problems that might postpone the beginning of construction. 

Could someone with sufficient knowledge of Slovenian tell us what's going on?


----------



## Shenkey

use Bing translate

it is way better with languages that do not have same structure of sentences


----------



## MichiH

celevac said:


> News about A4 - newspaper article from yesterday:
> http://www.delo.si/gospodarstvo/infrastruktura/drazencindash-gruskovje-prek-prve-revizije.html
> 
> Google Translate did a lousy job with this article so I am not sure what is actually going to happen. If I understood correctly, there seem to be some problems that might postpone the beginning of construction.


If I got it right (using Bing Translator), there is a matter with awarding the contract. Appeal... And it's said, if construction would start in May 2015, the first section could be opened in September 2017, the entire motorway by July 2018.

(would be great, if a Slovenian guy could verify it)


----------



## kreden

MichiH said:


> If I got it right (using Bing Translator), there is a matter with awarding the contract. Appeal... And it's said, if construction would start in May 2015, the first section could be opened in September 2017, the entire motorway by July 2018.
> 
> (would be great, if a Slovenian guy could verify it)


Correct. The external review should take a few weeks, so Dars is saying a May construction start is still feasible.


----------



## darko06

However, when this Motorway will be completed in Summer 2018 there still will be gap around Krapina, because no one knows if and when Strabag will build second tube of two tunnels and second half of two viaducts.
Worse, if Croatia enters Schengen in the same year there will be serious queues from May to October every year.


----------



## celevac

darko06 said:


> However, when this Motorway will be completed in Summer 2018 there still will be gap around Krapina, because no one knows if and when Strabag will build second tube of two tunnels and second half of two viaducts.
> Worse, if Croatia enters Schengen in the same year there will be serious queues from May to October every year.


I agree. Strabag is terrible, they charge an incredible 48 kn for the stretch until Zaprešić (32 if you exit once, what a rip off), but didn't finish their job near Krapina. hno:

But in any case, it's still better to have a proper motorway in Slovenia instead of that lousy 13 km state road with the enormous potholes, especially the 3 km after Draženci towards Gruškovje.


----------



## Broccolli

Is the road really in a such a bad shape? I have never driven on this road before, so...


----------



## Karaya

The road looks fine considering its low AADT. Planned motorway is an undeserved luxury designed by politics.


----------



## tfd543

Low AADT outside summer season but a major corridor during summer. We all know that this is for the tourism. When HR applies for schengen this summer, they will probably become member around 2018.


----------



## Karaya

Yes, it's for tourism while locals are driving on much worse state roads with higher AADT daily to work. Politics.


----------



## tfd543

This is the so-called Balkan syndrome


----------



## Verso

It's a major road corridor with only this section missing, so it should be a motorway ASAP. Motorways/expressways for tourism-only will be Koper-HR and Postojna-HR, while this road is much more important even in winter. It's not all in AADT.


----------



## Karaya

It's not just this section that is missing, plus, the connection already exist, just not in the full motorway profile. But for some reason this project has priority while other state roads are falling apart. This, of course, has it's price also in human lives. But this is an international forum and non-motorway statistics are not so interesting.


----------



## MichiH

^^ But it's absolutely right! It costs lifes and economical loss


----------



## Verso

Karaya said:


> It's not just this section that is missing


If you're talking about the section by Krapina, it's not even worth mentioning as long as the Slovenian part is missing. It's shorter, doesn't have any at-grade intersection, and requires building two tunnels with a combined length of 2.3 km. It will be worth mentioning when the Slovenian part is completed.



Karaya said:


> plus, the connection already exist, just not in the full motorway profile.


It's not even a half-motorway profile, just the path is the same. It has many at-grade intersections with 60-km/h speed limit and pavement is deteriorating. It's the worst part of corridors it lies on.


----------



## Broccolli

123426878


----------



## Shenkey

Amazing video, I just wonder how it would look using Hyperlapse technology


----------



## italystf

^^ Since when Slovenia uses solid lines between lanes in the same carriaggeway? :troll:

Seriously, it's so fast that you can barely see anything. That drive requires around 40-50 minutes, so this timelapse is something like 20X or 25X faster. You hardly notice the 360° turn at Fernetti.


----------



## hofburg

I still recognize everything


----------



## Verso

Dars and Asfinag today signed an agreement for building the second tube of the Karavanke Tunnel.

http://www.finance.si/8820632/Dars-in-Asfinag-sta-podpisala-sporazum-za-drugo-cev-predora-Karavanke


----------



## zezi

^^
How much traffic is there now? Any congestions?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

About 7,000 vehicles per day, but there are summer peaks.


----------



## Verso

8,574 vpd in 2013.


----------



## Verso

Btw, they will start building it in the end of 2017 and it should be completed in winter 2022/23.


----------



## Courage

Verso said:


> Dars and Asfinag today signed an agreement for building the second tube of the Karavanke Tunnel.


Great news.


----------



## italystf

The Slovenian minister of infrastructure stated that the new H6 expressway (that will open in a month) will require vignette, despite opposition by mayors of Koper\Capodistria, Izola\Isola d'Istria and Piran\Pirano. The vignette will be required also on the already-existing Izola bypass, that is currently toll-free and included in the national road G111.
http://ilpiccolo.gelocal.it/trieste...l-di-san-marco-servira-la-vignetta-1.11227795


----------



## kreden

x-type said:


> nobody knows that actually.


It's actually very simple, it's mandatory from the first vinjeta sign onwards. 

In all seriousness though, it probably has to do with whether there is an alternative crossing on national roads. For example in the case of Vrtojba, Fernetti and Škofije, the regular road just ends up on the motorway border crossing, whereas in Šentilj, Obrežje and Pince there is a regular road crossing next to the motorway crossing.


----------



## x-type

kreden said:


> It's actually very simple, it's mandatory from the first vinjeta sign onwards.


but it doesn't exist on Obrežje


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> they sell it there, but you cannot stop your car before police check anyway.


Yes, but it should be mandatory, like on Swiss motorway border crossings (at least when they weren't in Schengen yet, but they still have customs control).



x-type said:


> but it doesn't exist on Obrežje


Here.  (don't mind the advertisement for Palmanova 240 km away :nuts


----------



## hofburg

kreden said:


> It's actually very simple, it's mandatory from the first vinjeta sign onwards.
> 
> In all seriousness though, it probably has to do with whether there is an alternative crossing on national roads. For example in the case of Vrtojba, Fernetti and Škofije, the regular road ends up just on the motorway border crossing,


in Vrtojba there is no regular road.


----------



## italystf

hofburg said:


> in Vrtojba there is no regular road.


Exactly, requiring the vignette for Vrtojba border crossing means sending most through traffic via Gorizia centre.

About Sant'Andrea/Vrtojba b/c I'm sure you can do this (I->SLO) and this (SLO->I) without vignette. However this is not a signed exit, and you have to know well the place to drive that route.
After that rest area, there is a begining of motorway\vignette sign, but I don't think that vignette is enforced before the exit of Sempeter/Nova Gorica, that is about 1km after the beginning of the tolled motorway. Since the motorway beginning/vignette sign is few meters after the off-ramp to the rest area, you've no option to turn back after you have seen it, with the exit of Sempeter/Nova Gorica being your only option.

About Fernetti\Sezana, you don't need the vignette for this and this. You need it if you go straight at this point (and obviously for the opposite direction).

About Rabuiese\Skofije, you can avoid the vignette by turning right into this gas station, that is a bit tricky, as it looks like just a gas station and not an exit leading elsewhere. I don't think there are many places in the world where you have to drive through a gas station without needing to use it.
In the opposite direction, you need to drive this, as entering the expressway a bit before, requires the vignette.


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> About Sant'Andrea/Vrtojba b/c I'm sure you can do this (I->SLO) and this (SLO->I) without vignette. However this is not a signed exit, and you have to know well the place to drive that route.


It's signposted as Šempeter.



> After that rest area, there is a begining of motorway\vignette sign, but I don't think that vignette is enforced before the exit of Sempeter/Nova Gorica, that is about 1km after the beginning of the tolled motorway. Since the motorway beginning/vignette sign is few meters after the off-ramp to the rest area, you've no option to turn back after you have seen it, with the exit of Sempeter/Nova Gorica being your only option.


You need a vignette for driving on Slovenian motorways and expressways, so why would you continue driving on a road that looks like a motorway? It's good that you can cross the border there at all.



> About Rabuiese\Skofije, you can avoid the vignette by turning right into this gas station, that is a bit tricky, as it looks like just a gas station and not an exit leading elsewhere. I don't think there are many places in the world where you have to drive through a gas station without needing to use it.


You don't actually have to drive through a gas station (although you get really close), but it's true that the exit is only signposted as a gas station/rest area.


----------



## hofburg

Verso said:


> You need a vignette for driving on Slovenian motorways and expressways, so why would you continue driving on a road that looks like a motorway? It's good that you can cross the border there at all.


this can be a valid argument only if there is a normal main road border crossing beside motorway. Which in case of Škofije/Rabuiese and Fernetiči there is none. So especially at Škofije it needs to be better signed.


----------



## hofburg

italystf said:


> Exactly, requiring the vignette for Vrtojba border crossing means sending most through traffic via Gorizia centre.


not really Gorizia centre http://goo.gl/maps/nJksr (select second route), close though. but that's also a problem of Gorizia not having any bypass.


----------



## kreden

hofburg said:


> not really Gorizia centre http://goo.gl/maps/nJksr (select second route), close though. but that's also a problem of Gorizia not having any bypass.


Not to mention that road has a heavy traffic restriction on the Slovenian side. Not that it matters in the case of vignettes, but it's not really a serious alternative to Vrtojba.


----------



## Verso

hofburg said:


> this can be a valid argument only if there is a normal main road border crossing beside motorway. Which in case of Škofije/Rabuiese and Fernetiči there is none. So especially at Škofije it needs to be better signed.


If there's an ordinary road border crossing beside a motorway, you shouldn't cross the border on the motorway without a vignette at all. But I see where you're getting at: that you might not notice soon enough there's a motorway ahead of you at all (because you thought there would be just an ordinary road or whatever other reason). But then again, there are so many signs for vignettes that it's a lame excuse. There probably wouldn't be so many signs (if at all), if there was just an ordinary road ahead. You have signs already in Italy.


----------



## Verso

http://goo.gl/maps/H60pn

How is it possible that a sign informing about vignettes looks 50 years old?


----------



## hofburg

Opening of 5th June getting close!

www.siol.net/avtomoto/zanimivosti/reportaze/2015/05/predor_markovec_odprtje.aspx



kozorog said:


> Vir-http://www.zurnal24.si/predor-markovec-vinjeta-dars-izola-koper-minister-gaspersic-miro-cerar-clanek-250588


----------



## keber

Verso said:


> http://goo.gl/maps/H60pn
> 
> How is it possible that a sign informing about vignettes looks 50 years old?


And surroundings looks much better, right?


----------



## MichiH

Verso said:


> Dars and Asfinag today signed an agreement for building the second tube of the Karavanke Tunnel.
> 
> http://www.finance.si/8820632/Dars-in-Asfinag-sta-podpisala-sporazum-za-drugo-cev-predora-Karavanke


It might be delayed if an EIS is needed for the Slovenian part (source in German, sorry, couldn't find any English or Slovenian source which is for free but the news article contains not more info).



> Schlüsselprojekt ist nach wie vor der geplante Ausbau des Karawankentunnels. Hier könnte es jetzt Verzögerungen geben, denn auf slowenischer Seite muss geprüft werden, ob eine Umweltverträglichkeitsprüfung (EIS) notwendig sei.


----------



## italystf

Will H6 open today?


----------



## Verso

We'll see. :dunno: Ask at midnight if it opened. :lol: The PM Cerar is coming, so it should open.


----------



## Eulanthe

One thing that I don't understand about the vignette systems - why on earth is so much trouble involved with buying one? Why not simply turn the old border posts into drive-through vignette sales points? 

Hello machine, here's my card/15 Euro, give me a vignette, thank you, bye. But "stop, get out of car (with screaming children), queue in shop, get out of shop, get back in car" is such a pain.


----------



## Verso

^^ You can do that at Šentilj.


----------



## keber

italystf said:


> Will H6 open today?


It will open in evening hours. :cheers:


----------



## Verso

It's already open according to rtvslo.si. :banana: A few pictures:




































http://www.rtvslo.si/slovenija/skozi-predor-markovec-zapeljala-prva-vozila/366795

Finally! :cheers:


----------



## Verso

"Finally open." :lol:








http://www.rtvslo.si/slovenija/skozi-predor-markovec-zapeljala-prva-vozila/366795


----------



## nestvaran

Verso said:


> Finally! :cheers:


What are these panels for?


----------



## Karaya

These are noise damping panels at the both ends of the tunnels.


----------



## nestvaran

So traffic doesn't disturb the earth? :dunno: :lol:


----------



## Karaya

AFAIK sound levels are higher at the tunnel exit and this panels should reduce this tube-sound effect. We will see if they work...


----------



## x-type

i saw it somewhere already (Italy?)


----------



## Verso

Some more pics of H6:


Lion007 said:


> *Hitra cesta Koper - Izola 5.6 in 6.6.2015 (1/8)*





Lion007 said:


> *Hitra cesta Koper - Izola 5.6 in 6.6.2015 (2/8)*





Lion007 said:


> *Hitra cesta Koper - Izola 5.6 in 6.6.2015 (3/8)*





Lion007 said:


> *Hitra cesta Koper - Izola 5.6 in 6.6.2015 (4/8)*





Lion007 said:


> *Hitra cesta Koper - Izola 5.6 in 6.6.2015 (5/8)*





Lion007 said:


> *Hitra cesta Koper - Izola 5.6 in 6.6.2015 (6/8)*





Lion007 said:


> *Hitra cesta Koper - Izola 5.6 in 6.6.2015 (7/8)*





Lion007 said:


> *Hitra cesta Koper - Izola 5.6 in 6.6.2015 (8/8)*


:cheers:


----------



## italystf

Some questions:

There are less than 10 km between Izola bypass and the northern end of Croatian A9. Why don't build an expressway there, instead of building a separate expressway (H5) and leaving H6 dead ending in Lucija, like they are planning now?

Is the Izola bypass (still shown as G111 on maps, even if it's de facto H6) subjected to vignette?

The old G111 between Koper and Izola runs only few meters from the sea. Are they planning to close it permanently and making it a scenic pedestrian\cycleway?


----------



## MichiH

^^ No one likes traffic. People fear traffic. But they want to earn money. They need tourists to get money from them. Tourists have to get there. Teleportation could be a good solution... 

Seriously, I think it was already discussed here and we had different opinions and there is no clear statement of the authorities and politicians.


----------



## Karaya

H5 would be for the transit and H6 for Izola and Piran. The traffic on the old road is intense and two "motorways" are not overkill, imo. 

About the old road between Koper and Izola... the media is bombarding us with this question for few months now. The locals would like to transform it into something else, but even they don't really know what to do about it. 

For the moment, the road needs to be open for the traffic because of the required vignette for the tunnel.


----------



## [atomic]

italystf said:


> Some questions:
> 
> There are less than 10 km between Izola bypass and the northern end of Croatian A9. Why don't build an expressway there, instead of building a separate expressway (H5) and leaving H6 dead ending in Lucija, like they are planning now?


I'm pretty sure that they want to keep transit away from the coastal/tourist area.
But it would probably be easier to extend the H6, they would have to dig a Tunnel to bypass Lucija but that would still be shorter and less steep than anything they would have to dig anywhere near G(?)11.
According to this site they even plan to build 2 Tunnels



> The old G111 between Koper and Izola runs only few meters from the sea. Are they planning to close it permanently and making it a scenic pedestrian\cycleway?


Can't give you a source but they won't close it, it isn't even a large road anyways (only 2 lanes) and there is a footpath already


----------



## MichiH

[atomic] said:


> According to this site they even plan to build 2 Tunnels


Back to H6: http://motorways-exitlists.com/europe/slo/h6.htm.



> Tunnel Markkovec (which opened now): U/C, open 12/2012
> Extension to Portorose (including 1km tunnel Lucan): Planned, open 2013
> 
> Page was last modified on 9 March 2010


----------



## italystf

[atomic] said:


> I'm pretty sure that they want to keep transit away from the coastal/tourist area.
> But it would probably be easier to extend the H6, they would have to dig a Tunnel to bypass Lucija but that would still be shorter and less steep than anything they would have to dig anywhere near G(?)11.
> According to this site they even plan to build 2 Tunnels
> 
> 
> Can't give you a source but they won't close it, it isn't even a large road anyways (only 2 lanes) and there is a footpath already


There is another inland road to go from Koper to Izola without vignette. It's signed as "Cesta na Markovec".
The coastal road is scenic to drive, but it really spoils that stretch of coast. It's not so pleasant to sunbath 10 meters from a road with all noise and pollution. It would be cool to renovate the entire area, creating a pedestrian\cycle way paralellel to the coast, planting several pine trees to make shadow when it's hot, and maybe creating even a man-made beach. They could make this coast looking like Barcola, near Trieste, that's it's not my favouite beach (I prefer sand over concrete), but at least is more quiet, green, and detached from the road.


----------



## keber

x-type said:


> i saw it somewhere already (Italy?)


Tunnel Mali vrh on A2 (between Grosuplje and Ljubljana exits) 
About H5/H6 discussion: If both expressways would be built today they would be overkill except for summer weekends. Butt traffic toward Croatia is increasing and separate expressways will make sense someday in the future.


----------



## MichiH

^^ In general, roads are always built (or should always be built) for the future!


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> Is the Izola bypass (still shown as G111 on maps, even if it's de facto H6) subjected to vignette?


No.

Anyway, I'd just extend the H6 to Croatia. It would make your journey to Croatia slightly longer, but the solution would be cheaper, and it would better connect Izola, Piran, Portorož and Lucija with Croatia.


----------



## Verso

Another remark: until now we had 597 km of motorways and 4-lane expressways, but now we have 601 km.  :cheers:


----------



## rarse

*H6 extension plan (Jagodje - Lucija)*


----------



## Verso

^^ I think it will be too far away from Portorož and especially Piran. It should be 4-laned to Portorož ("križišče Valeta"), otherwise I don't know why they're building it at all.


----------



## kreden

That's not the current plan, actually.

Edit: This is (sorry for the huge picture)









source: Ministry of Infrastructure


----------



## Verso

Yes, that one is old. Maybe a two-lane road to Portorož is enough (especially since there will be a tunnel as well), but it's also enough to Lucija. I would make it four-laned only to "priključek Lucija", not all the way to "rondo Lucija". Traffic in 2013 on G2-111 before the road splits was ~20,000 vpd, but then it drops significantly: G2-111 to Lucija and R3-629 to Portorož/Piran both just ~10,000 vpd.


----------



## kreden

I believe the stretch between Lucija junction and Lucija roundabout has four lanes due to the steep grade of the road in one direction and to prevent additional queues at the roundabout in the other direction, which probably makes sense in the summer months, as it could easily become a bottleneck.


----------



## italystf

http://www.aise.info/comunità/nuovo...liana-non-rispettato-il-bilinguismo/39193/157
The Italian community of Slovenia complained because the sign at the new tunnel's portal says only "Predor Marcovec" and not also "Tunnel San Marco", while all signs in that region must be bilingual according to the law.


----------



## Autobahn-mann

^^ The fact that the tunnel is dedicated to St. Mark, suggest me that Italian community is of Venetian origin (that it is, in fact) 

Sorry for my little OT...


----------



## Verso

^^ It's not a tunnel dedicated to St. Mark (Mark the Evangelist), it's named after a part of Koper called Monte San Marco (in Italian), under which it runs (in Slovenian called Markovec, not Sveti Marko). (and yes, that's the Lion of Saint Mark in your avatar)


----------



## italystf

The Italian name "Monte San Marco" probably dates back to the Venetian domination (before 1797).
Yes, coastal Istria, Dalmatia and even Montenegro had a consistent Italian population before WWII, and a small part of it still remains. They spoke\speak a dialect similar to Venetian, due to historical reasons. Also the architecture in those places has a clear Venetian origin.


----------



## Autobahn-mann

Yes... sorry for my mistake about the hill, I've read the article later... Capodistria/Koper was part of Venetian Republic since XI century!


----------



## Verso

^^ Since 1279 (or 1278).


----------



## definitivo

...after all ( SLO-IT, SLO-CRO, CRO-SRB, SRB-AL ...opinions ) we know why Europe is the biggest b...h ( "beach" )  ...


----------



## italystf

definitivo said:


> ...after all ( SLO-IT, SLO-CRO, CRO-SRB, SRB-AL ...opinions ) we know why Europe is the biggest b...h ( "beach" )  ...


[OT] Please, come on. We were just talking about history. The fact that Istria was Venetian is a fact, no need to argue. I didn't say "Istria should be Italian now!" [/OT]


----------



## Verso

Long live Venetian architecture. :cheers:









http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Koper-St,-Pr%C3%A4torenpalast-%28280711%29.jpg


----------



## Verso

The new H6 is already drawn in Google Maps, but Izola bypass (4-lane part of G2-111) remains yellow.


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> The new H6 is already drawn in Google Maps, but Izola bypass (4-lane part of G2-111) remains yellow.


But it was drawn wrong:
https://www.google.it/maps/@45.5426549,13.7196807,17z
Correct interchange in OSM:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/45.54270/13.71839

And what the prefix G2 does mean?


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> But it was drawn wrong:
> https://www.google.it/maps/@45.5426549,13.7196807,17z


What a primitive interchange. 



> And what the prefix G2 does mean?


"*G*lavna cesta" (main road) of the 2nd order.


----------



## [atomic]

italystf said:


> But it was drawn wrong:
> https://www.google.it/maps/@45.5426549,13.7196807,17z
> Correct interchange in OSM:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/45.54270/13.71839


same on the other side
https://www.google.it/maps/@45.5317315,13.6729149,17z
OSM
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/45.53206/13.67312
:lol:


----------



## Verso

^^ OSM is wrong there too (although more accurate than GMaps), you can enter and exit the expressway in/from direction Koper as well, not just Portorož.


----------



## keber

Verso said:


> The new H6 is already drawn in Google Maps, but Izola bypass (4-lane part of G2-111) remains yellow.


Which is correct. Orange colours mean toll road, Izola bypass is not toll road.


----------



## cinxxx

^^Not anymore.
Orange means 2 lane road. Toll road has black border lines.


----------



## Verso

keber said:


> Which is correct. Orange colours mean toll road, Izola bypass is not toll road.


Then all Germany would be yellow.


----------



## A11 LJUBLJANA

Verso said:


> "Finally open." :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.rtvslo.si/slovenija/skozi-predor-markovec-zapeljala-prva-vozila/366795


Karawankentunnel?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Funny, I was just reading the exact same thing


----------



## Verso

With Google Translate, I assume.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yep 

Dars should change their favicon in browsers. It's an animated icon, quite annoying.


----------



## MichiH

^^ The construction time is 28 months from the beginning of the construction works. Total costs: 68.6 million €.

IIRC, it was announced that works could maybe begin in August 2015. Any info about that?


----------



## Karaya

It was confirmed. Middle of August. We will see, said the blind guy...


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> Dars should change their favicon in browsers. It's an animated icon, quite annoying.


Yeah, I agree. They probably think it's cool.


----------



## tfd543

Why only 7 km. Is it the problem about twin-tubbing on the CRO side ? Or perhaps it is just about money. I was expecting the whole stretch in one uc period.


----------



## Verso

The unbuilt part of A4 is divided in two sections. The second one should follow soon.


----------



## Eulanthe

Verso said:


> The unbuilt part of A4 is divided in two sections. The second one should follow soon.


I was just reading about it as well (not using Google Translate, it's not so difficult to read for a Polish speaker ) - but it looks very much like there won't be access from MMP Gruskovje to the old road.

Look at the visualisation here - https://youtu.be/TcaQao8DnZs?t=2m18s . The alternative route through Hum na Sutli/Rogatec is much longer. 

Would DARS be mean enough to put a control between the border crossing and the first motorway exit?


----------



## tfd543

Keep in mind that CRO will be in schengen in max 2-3 years ie within the uc period.


----------



## keber

Second section is already in tender, which should close by the end of the month.



> Would DARS be mean enough to put a control between the border crossing and the first motorway exit?


Does Asfinag control anything different? 
Also there is no need for having motorway exit at the border, there is nothing important.


----------



## italystf

tfd543 said:


> Keep in mind that CRO will be in schengen in max 2-3 years ie within the uc period.


Nobody knows that for sure. Aparently, Croatia accessions to Schengen is bounded by accession of Romania and Bulgaria.


----------



## Verso

Eulanthe said:


> I was just reading about it as well (not using Google Translate, it's not so difficult to read for a Polish speaker ) - but it looks very much like there won't be access from MMP Gruskovje to the old road.
> 
> Look at the visualisation here - https://youtu.be/TcaQao8DnZs?t=2m18s . The alternative route through Hum na Sutli/Rogatec is much longer.
> 
> Would DARS be mean enough to put a control between the border crossing and the first motorway exit?


I don't know whether the old border crossing is still open.


----------



## tfd543

Well they will submit in August. Then there is this surveillance for 1 year. Lets hope. And I wouldnt be surprised if they enter before RO and Bul !!


----------



## Verso

Verso said:


> I don't know whether the old border crossing is still open.


Nope, it's reserved for residents of Cafuti. 

https://goo.gl/maps/pZ9QH


----------



## Lion007

First part of this 13 km long motorway A4 they will be start to build in August.


----------



## martin0102

Hello. I`m going for some holiday days to Slovenia. Going through Ljubelj from Austria. I wanna ask where I can buy vignette for Slovenian highways going from Austria. And second question is about price of fuel (diesel). Where should I tank Slovenia/Austria?
Thanks for respond.


----------



## SRC_100

^^
Vignette you can buy on each petrol station in Slovenia, maybe also on border you mentioned above. Diesel is cheaper in Austria except motorways.


----------



## smokiboy

Just drove from Rijeka to Postojna, on my way to Germany, and the country road section from Rupa (Croatia) to Postojna is a mess. You go through villages within a few metres of peoples dinning room windows, many trucks, and heavy traffic. I think this section is only some 30 km long. Is there any plans for Slovenia to complete this section? If so is it a high, medium, or low priority?


----------



## x-type

smokiboy said:


> Just drove from Rijeka to Postojna, on my way to Germany, and the country road section from Rupa (Croatia) to Postojna is a mess. You go through villages within a few metres of peoples dinning room windows, many trucks, and heavy traffic. I think this section is only some 30 km long. Is there any plans for Slovenia to complete this section? If so is it a high, medium, or low priority?


they will never build it.


----------



## Karaya

smokiboy said:


> @ Karaya, I was only referring to motorway network, I do realize that regional roads are also important. But sometime you should build motorway (or half motorway) to connect to areas, like Rijeka-Postojna, even if there is low AADT, to maintain traffic flow.


The traffic flow here is just fine. Border crossing Jelšane:

-3850 cars
-50 buses
-130 heavy trucks

As you can see, this is no major corridor.

At least border crossing Gruškovje has better numbers, but still pitiful for a motorway and a "major" corridor:

-7000 cars
-120 buses
-750 heavy trucks

This is also the reason why this section is the last section from the first slovenian motorway program to be built. Although some people outside Slovenia believe that this is a part of a conspiracy... but they clearly don't know the numbers.


----------



## x-type

Karaya said:


> The traffic flow here is just fine. Border crossing Jelšane:
> 
> -3850 cars
> -50 buses
> -130 heavy trucks
> 
> As you can see, this is no major corridor.
> 
> At least border crossing Gruškovje has better numbers, but still pitiful for a motorway and a "major" corridor:
> 
> -7000 cars
> -120 buses
> -750 heavy trucks
> 
> This is also the reason why this section is the last section from the first slovenian motorway program to be built. Although some people outside Slovenia believe that this is a part of a conspiracy... but they clearly don't know the numbers.


do you have summer seasonal statistics, or only those average annual?


----------



## Karaya

This is only AADT. Interesting data (year 2009), check the index in the last column:










Motorway Postojna - Jelšane would be profitable only 2-3 months per year. 

Source: http://www.dlib.si/stream/URN:NBN:SI:DOC-J63750YS/b1154d43-a23a-4dee-9756-78506a424b4d/PDF


----------



## kreden

Dars tweeted that construction of the first flyover has begun on the A4 Draženci-Gruškovje:










Source: https://twitter.com/DARS_SI/status/633603436001525760


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Do they sell the Hungarian vignette at all (motorway) petrol stations in Slovenia? I looked up Petrol and MOL and they appear to sell them. 

How do you buy the Hungarian vignette? It's not a sticker so you'll have to enter your license plate. Is there some kind of terminal or does the attendant do that for you?


----------



## kreden

Petrol only sells them at select stations in the east of the country. As far as I know, the attendant enters the data at the till.


----------



## cinxxx

ChrisZwolle said:


> Do they sell the Hungarian vignette at all (motorway) petrol stations in Slovenia? I looked up Petrol and MOL and they appear to sell them.
> 
> How do you buy the Hungarian vignette? It's not a sticker so you'll have to enter your license plate. Is there some kind of terminal or does the attendant do that for you?


I found it best to simply buy them online. I do this for Romania too.
https://ematrica.nemzetiutdij.hu/


----------



## MichiH

A4 LOT 2



> After it was rewarded the contract for construction of the first section of Drazenica-Gruskovje motorway in May, it appeared yesterday that Euro-Asfalt provided the best offer for the second phase of the project, according to Slovenian media. EuroAsfalt offered 46 million Euro price which is almost by 40 percent lower than the estimated value of the project of 74 million Euros.
> http://www.bosniatoday.ba/bosnian-euro-asfalt-becomes-important-player-on-slovenian-market/





> According to the agreement beginning of works is expected 28 days from the date of signing.
> The contract includes construction works on motorway A4 Slivnica – border crossing Gruškovje, subsection AC Draženci – MMP Gruškovje, II. b phase – initial construction works.
> Deadline for completion of works is 12 months.
> http://www.mi2news.com/euro-asfalt-gets-contract-worth-15-million-km-in-slovenia-photo/5827/


The price is about 48 million €. I guess it's the construction entire section LOT 2, isn't it?
Why is the deadline 12 month (construction period September 2015-August 2016), the section was announced to be completed by July 2018 :?



MichiH said:


> If I got it right (using Bing Translator), there is a matter with awarding the contract. Appeal... And it's said, if construction would start in May 2015, the first section could be opened in September 2017, the entire motorway by July 2018.


----------



## Verso

smokiboy said:


> Just drove from Rijeka to Postojna, on my way to Germany, and the country road section from Rupa (Croatia) to Postojna is a mess. You go through villages within a few metres of peoples dinning room windows, many trucks, and heavy traffic. I think this section is only some 30 km long. Is there any plans for Slovenia to complete this section? If so is it a high, medium, or low priority?


Traffic is far too low to build a motorway there (except maybe between Postojna and Pivka), and there are very few trucks there, because they are banned, but that road is very winding and goes through many villages (just drove on it today), so they should definitely build something new there, like a two-lane expressway or so. Rijeka is cut off from Central Europe with this road. :lol:


----------



## čarli1

MichiH said:


> The price is about 48 million €. I guess it's the construction entire section LOT 2, isn't it?


Yep. But the contract was not yet signed



MichiH said:


> Why is the deadline 12 month (construction period September 2015-August 2016), the section was announced to be completed by July 2018 :?


Because is not the same section 12 months is for section II. b where will be doing only preparation work for section *II. a*. Contract was signed for 7.522.744,64 EUR.


----------



## kreden

MichiH said:


> A4 LOT 2
> 
> 
> The price is about 48 million €. I guess it's the construction entire section LOT 2, isn't it?
> Why is the deadline 12 month (construction period September 2015-August 2016), the section was announced to be completed by July 2018 :?


The first tender had two competitions, one was for phase 1 and one for phase 2b. Euroasfalt was awarded the second one. The second tender was for phase 2a, Euroasfalt is again the cheapest, but it has not been awarded the contract yet, the applications need to be fully reviewed first. It's not a done deal at all, it could still very well fall out of the running if problems with their application were to be discovered, it actually happens quite frequently with public tenders in Slovenia.

The 12-month deadline applies to phase 2b, the entire phase 2 will be completed by July 2018, though.


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> Traffic is far too low to build a motorway there (except maybe between Postojna and Pivka), and there are very few trucks there, because they are banned, but that road is very winding and goes through many villages (just drove on it today),* so they should definitely build something new there, like a two-lane expressway or so. Rijeka is cut off from Central Europe with this road.* :lol:


:eek2:


----------



## Verso

What? :lol:


----------



## Eulanthe

With the A4 - do we know what's going to happen with the old state road? Will there still be a road from Ptuj to Gruskovje that avoids the motorway, or will the Slovenians finally find a way to force the Poles and Czechs to pay for the vignette?  

(Verso - just so you know, two more transits of Slovenia on the Ptuj-Lenart-Mureck route. And I got stopped and tested for alcohol by the Slovenians! The police were nice, but very confused when I told them that it would be fun to get tested and that I was really happy that they were doing it)


----------



## Verso

Eulanthe said:


> With the A4 - do we know what's going to happen with the old state road? Will there still be a road from Ptuj to Gruskovje that avoids the motorway, or will the Slovenians finally find a way to force the Poles and Czechs to pay for the vignette?


There will be a new parallel road.



Eulanthe said:


> (Verso - just so you know, two more transits of Slovenia on the Ptuj-Lenart-Mureck route. And I got stopped and tested for alcohol by the Slovenians! The police were nice, but very confused when I told them that it would be fun to get tested and that I was really happy that they were doing it)


They probably thought you were drunk.


----------



## MichiH

Got it! But when should construction works on LOT 2 begin?

*A4:* Ptuj – Podlehnik 7.3km ( August 2015 to Late 2017) – project – map
*A4:* Podlehnik – SLO/HR border (Gruskovje) 6.1km (2015/16 to July 2018) – project – map

Is my data correct? :?

What's the exact length of the 2nd section, I read 6.05km (6.1km) but the project page reports 5.771km (5.8km). 1st section should be 7.260km (7.3km).


----------



## kreden

That depends on whether the tender procedure finishes smoothly or if there will be appeals to the National Review Commission. Most likely this year, but it could drag on into 2016.


----------



## Eulanthe

Verso said:


> There will be a new parallel road.


Good  I'm getting so familiar with the anti-vignette route that it would be a shame to have to actually pay for a vignette  The road surface is getting worse and worse every year, but some parts are still very nice. 

Speaking of that route, some Czech moron in a van sat behind me flashing his lights for me to let him by for about 20km. The problem was that I was far faster than him on the open sections of road, as well as in moderate bends - he only caught up on the sharper bends. He eventually managed to overtake in Mureck, but in a dangerous and very stupid way. Then he stopped at the same petrol station as me to buy a vignette... hno:

But I'm thinking about moving to Slovenia. If I do, I'll buy a yearly vignette, promise 

I've just discovered that Polish, Czech, German, Dutch and Austrian forums all advise you how to drive through Slovenia without paying for a vignette. I thought it was only Poles and the Czechs that avoided it!



> They probably thought you were drunk.


Probably, especially when I started telling them about some wonderful coffee that I was drinking next to the border.


----------



## Verso

Eulanthe said:


> I've just discovered that Polish, Czech, German, Dutch and Austrian forums all advise you how to drive through Slovenia without paying for a vignette. I thought it was only Poles and the Czechs that avoided it!


You forgot Croatian forums.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Slovenian vignette is quite unfortunate for north-south transit traffic, especially from Graz to Zagreb and in particular from Trieste to Istria. For the latter route it takes almost more time to purchase and attach the vignette than to drive the tolled segment.


----------



## rudiwien

x-type said:


> perfect timing for maintaing the tunnel. and, of course, they didn't think that tunnel has 2 tubes. Austrians do similar thing - painting the tunnels' walls at A9 causes nonsense closure of both tubes.



Not sure what incident you specifically refer to, but the tunnel cleanings that ASFINAG does in autumn are normally in the night hours and during weekdays, so they don't have a great impact on travel.

I don't think that it is feasible to use the second tube with oncoming traffic for a 1-2 nights long work, as the preparation work to provide the road arrangement that you would need with any construction site to safely move the traffic to contraflow in one tunnel is quite some work...

Also, I guess it is not easy to do this on a short-term notice, if it was, as claimed, really an emergency repair in this particular case in Slovenia...


----------



## Domen123

Slovenia is good for a short ride, but too small for a long ride.


----------



## Gedeon

Domen123 said:


> Slovenia is good for a short ride, but too small for a long ride.


You can always make some more laps.


----------



## keber

Dars motorway company has announced a construction tender of a full exit Šmarje-Sap (currently just a half exit - map)

This junction will be more complicated because of very limited space:


Full exit will help relieving everyday congestion between Ljubljana and Škofljica on main road 106 where AADT reaches 18500 on two-laned road through towns with traffic lights. It will also act as a backup connection in case of urgent events. Construction also includes a 150 m long drainage tunnel.


----------



## Verso

A bear (safely) crossed the Ljubljana-Koper motorway yesterday.


----------



## darko06

Verso said:


> A bear (safely) crossed the Ljubljana-Koper motorway yesterday.


When? In the light of the day? Or in the night?
Where? Between Vrhnika and Postojna or between Razdrto and Koper?


----------



## darko06

keber said:


> Dars motorway company has announced a construction tender of a full exit Šmarje-Sap (currently just a half exit - map)
> 
> This junction will be more complicated because of very limited space:
> 
> 
> Full exit will help relieving everyday congestion between Ljubljana and Škofljica on main road 106 where AADT reaches 18500 on two-laned road through towns with traffic lights. It will also act as a backup connection in case of urgent events. Construction also includes a 150 m long drainage tunnel.


This reconstruction is a very good idea!

When will DARS start to build a new south carriageway between Grosuplje and Višnja Gora in Novo Mesto direction, aligned with the north carriageway? I suppose that the existing south carriageway AKA old expressway will be downgraded to a regional road, isn't it?


----------



## darko06

And, congratulations for refurbishing the motorway between Ivančna Gorica and Višnja Gora.


----------



## Verso

^^
^^ Not in the near future.



darko06 said:


> When? In the light of the day? Or in the night?
> Where? Between Vrhnika and Postojna or between Razdrto and Koper?


During the day, between Postojna and Unec.


----------



## Lion007

*Highway A4 Draženci - Podlehnik 25.12.2015 (1/12)*


----------



## Lion007

*Highway A4 Draženci - Podlehnik 25.12.2015 (2/12)*


----------



## Lion007

*Highway A4 Draženci - Podlehnik 25.12.2015 (3/12)*


----------



## Lion007

*Highway A4 Draženci - Podlehnik 25.12.2015 (4/12)*


----------



## Lion007

*Highway A4 Draženci - Podlehnik 25.12.2015 (5/12)*


----------



## Lion007

*Highway A4 Draženci - Podlehnik 25.12.2015 (6/12)*


----------



## Lion007

*Highway A4 Draženci - Podlehnik 25.12.2015 (7/12)*


----------



## Lion007

*Highway A4 Draženci - Podlehnik 25.12.2015 (8/12)*


----------



## Lion007

*Highway A4 Draženci - Podlehnik 25.12.2015 (9/12)*


----------



## Lion007

*Highway A4 Draženci - Podlehnik 25.12.2015 (10/12)*


----------



## Lion007

*Highway A4 Draženci - Podlehnik 25.12.2015 (11/12)*


----------



## Karaya

I can't see this happening for many reasons. But some sort of electronic vignette (online purchase) could be possible. This should make things easier aka no stopping at the gas station.


----------



## kreden

I don't see a corridor vignette happening anywhere in Slovenia. While it's a reasonable solution on certain routes such as the A2-A4 corridor, it would be akin to opening Pandora's box, giving legitimacy to various different local vignette initiatives across the country.


----------



## keber

darko06 said:


> Thank you both for answers.
> However, it is impressive that the AADT here is 35000. I would expect much lower numbers.


Why would you expect that? It is just 10 minutes of driving from Ljubljana bypass.

AADT between Ljubljana and Grosuplje reaches almost 50000. With expanded exit Šmarje Sap it will get few thousand more in just one year according to tender documentation (mostly in rush hours). Morning and afternoon slowdowns congestions are everyday thing here. Lowest AADT on east part of A2 is at the border crossing with 10500.
(more 2014 data here / graphics for 2013 data here)


----------



## x-type

but after Grosuplje amount of traffic really falls rapidly. i expected cca 20-25000 at separated part.


----------



## Eulanthe

kreden said:


> I don't see a corridor vignette happening anywhere in Slovenia. While it's a reasonable solution on certain routes such as the A2-A4 corridor, it would be akin to opening Pandora's box, giving legitimacy to various different local vignette initiatives across the country.


Indeed, although I'm hearing repeated murmurings from a friend involved with transport policy in the EU that *something* will be done about these very expensive vignettes for short term use. There's a suggestion that electronic vignettes will be enforced through an EU directive, which will allow very short term vignettes to be purchased for transit usage. 

It is crazy though - if Slovenia introduced one-day transit vignettes for 5 Euro, I would buy one happily. But there's just no way that I'm going to spend 15 Euro to save 20 minutes - sorry Slovenia, but there's a very nice cafe located in the old border crossing at Mureck, and the owner is far more appreciative of my money


----------



## darko06

keber said:


> Why would you expect that? It is just 10 minutes of driving from Ljubljana bypass.
> 
> AADT between Ljubljana and Grosuplje reaches almost 50000. With expanded exit Šmarje Sap it will get few thousand more in just one year according to tender documentation (mostly in rush hours). Morning and afternoon slowdowns congestions are everyday thing here. Lowest AADT on east part of A2 is at the border crossing with 10500.
> (more 2014 data here / graphics for 2013 data here)


The point is, that with this 35000 AADT one can safely drive about 100 to 110 kmph. Okay, new exit Šmarje Sap will add some thousand to the recent AADT, but I think nothing to be worried about. You put noise barriers on Log-Vrhnika section without widening to 3-laned motorway, and the traffic is still OK. Romanians drive better and better, and for weekend there is no trucks at all, which is another OK. Let's say that the yearly vignette will pay itself in April next year. Also, you don't have funny speed limits when fog or rain, as in Croatia. Rijeka beltway in comparison? The worst "toll free" motorway in the world, and you still pay for it when driving from Grobnik to Zagreb.


----------



## Verso

A1 Ljubljana-Koper:









http://www.rtvslo.si/okolje/na-primorski-avtocesti-obilno-snezenje-ovira-promet/382451


----------



## threo2k

Verso said:


> A1 Ljubljana-Koper:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.rtvslo.si/okolje/na-primorski-avtocesti-obilno-snezenje-ovira-promet/382451


wow!!


----------



## bewu1

There is some snow in some winters.


----------



## Lion007

*The construction can start*

The National Review Commission dismissed the application for review submitted by a SGP POMGRAD DD And application for review submitted by a GP KRK dd, in stop AWARD OF THE CONTRACT FOR THE SELECTION OF THE CONTRACTOR FOR THE CONSTRUCTION SEGMENT 2.A ETAPE Draženci GRUŠKOVJE
01/15/2016

The National Review Commission today DARS d.d. notified the decision rejecting the application for review filed by the EPA Pomgrad dd and application for review GP Krk dd, in the public procurement procedure for selection of contractor for the "realization of the construction Segment AC Draženci - MMP Gruškovje - 2a. Stage of 7,26 km to 13.03 km in length 5.771 km. "

http://www.dars.si/Novice/DRzAVNA_R...AVENGA_NAROcILA_ZA_IZBOR_IZVAJALCA__1388.aspx

Sorry, this is not the best translate.


----------



## ukraroad

Eulanthe said:


> Indeed, although I'm hearing repeated murmurings from a friend involved with transport policy in the EU that *something* will be done about these very expensive vignettes for short term use. There's a suggestion that electronic vignettes will be enforced through an EU directive, which will allow very short term vignettes to be purchased for transit usage.
> 
> It is crazy though - if Slovenia introduced one-day transit vignettes for 5 Euro, I would buy one happily. But there's just no way that I'm going to spend 15 Euro to save 20 minutes - sorry Slovenia, but there's a very nice cafe located in the old border crossing at Mureck, and the owner is far more appreciative of my money


Nobody has yet one for cars - only for trucks and buses(maybe they think *transit* isn't the word for light cars but for trucks and buses only). For cars they'd say some s*** like 'trespassing' or 'driving through' being not synonym to transit. And, anyway, they have to earn money somehow(even in a stupid/unfair way :wallbash


----------



## tfd543

Lion007 said:


> *The construction can start*
> 
> 
> 
> The National Review Commission dismissed the application for review submitted by a SGP POMGRAD DD And application for review submitted by a GP KRK dd, in stop AWARD OF THE CONTRACT FOR THE SELECTION OF THE CONTRACTOR FOR THE CONSTRUCTION SEGMENT 2.A ETAPE Draženci GRUŠKOVJE
> 
> 01/15/2016
> 
> 
> 
> The National Review Commission today DARS d.d. notified the decision rejecting the application for review filed by the EPA Pomgrad dd and application for review GP Krk dd, in the public procurement procedure for selection of contractor for the "realization of the construction Segment AC Draženci - MMP Gruškovje - 2a. Stage of 7,26 km to 13.03 km in length 5.771 km. "
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.dars.si/Novice/DRzAVNA_R...AVENGA_NAROcILA_ZA_IZBOR_IZVAJALCA__1388.aspx
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, this is not the best translate.



So construction can start? When will they turn the first sod?


----------



## kreden

In a few weeks, probably. The appeal was rejected but they still have to sign the contract.


----------



## Verso

A4 under construction:









http://www.tednik.si/ac-drazenci-gruskovje-pomgrad-opozarja-na-dumping-cene-bosanskega-podjetja


----------



## Verso

Major pileup on A1 Ljubljana-Koper due to fog. 71 vehicles involved, 4 people died, 30 are injured.









http://www.delo.si/novice/kronika/na-primorski-avtocesti-verizno-trcenje.html


----------



## SRC_100

^^
mg: :shocked:
absolutely disaster, but fog is the worse than snow or ice on motorway


----------



## Corvinus

Verso said:


> Major pileup on A1 Ljubljana-Koper due to fog. 71 vehicles involved, 4 people died, 30 are injured.


Made also news in Hungary, with 15 Hungarians (from three cars and one truck) involved and one of them transported to hospital with minor injuries.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It also made the news in the Netherlands. They say it's the largest road accident in Slovenian history.


----------



## čarli1

ChrisZwolle said:


> It also made the news in the Netherlands. They say it's the largest road accident in Slovenian history.


Yep, it's the biggest road accident in history. That's already the 3rd major road accident on motorways since 2010*. In 2014 near Postojna there was 51 vehicles involved, one died and 39 were injured. Before that, between Višnja Gora and Grosuplje, there was 38 vehicles involved, three died and 23 were injured. 

Edit: Second most deadliest accident happend in 2005 near Trebnje (previously the missing part of motorway) where 8 people died. 

*In the media they reported that first major accident happend in 2011 but this is not true as can you see news about that here


----------



## Verso

Among the 4 dead are 2 Slovenes, a Romanian and a Bosnian. I met with someone from Koper yesterday. He was two hours late.


----------



## Verso

čarli;130393045 said:


> But the deadliest accident happend in 2005 near Trebnje (previously the missing part of motorway) where 8 people died.


In 1992 10 people died on the A1 (then 2-lane A10) between Maribor and Celje when two cars (Italian and German) collided and exploded.

http://www.zurnal24.si/nesreca-varnost-ceste-clanek-253282


----------



## Karaya

Part of the dash cam video:

http://m.24ur.com/novice/crna-kroni...-je-megla-naleti-beg-ljudi-poki-kricanje.html

I think it's better to stay in the car in the situation like this.


----------



## čarli1

Verso said:


> In 1992 10 people died on the A1 (then 2-lane A10) between Maribor and Celje when two cars (Italian and German) collided and exploded.
> 
> http://www.zurnal24.si/nesreca-varnost-ceste-clanek-253282


Yep, i missed this one


----------



## tfd543

Karaya said:


> Part of the dash cam video:
> 
> http://m.24ur.com/novice/crna-kroni...-je-megla-naleti-beg-ljudi-poki-kricanje.html
> 
> I think it's better to stay in the car in the situation like this.



Omg. What a disaster. Look what do you actually do here? I would be thinking to grab a car and turning the High beams against incoming traffic. Or maybe walk on the emergency lane 100 meters away and warn people. I dont know, maybe its also about morality. Would you try to do something in those 10-15 min until police arrives or ?


----------



## Verso

tfd543 said:


> Or maybe walk on the emergency lane 100 meters away and warn people.


There was actually some guy doing that and people were greatful to him.


----------



## čarli1

Karaya said:


> Part of the dash cam video:
> 
> http://m.24ur.com/novice/crna-kroni...-je-megla-naleti-beg-ljudi-poki-kricanje.html
> 
> I think it's better to stay in the car in the situation like this.


I don't think that is better&safer to stay in car in that kind of situation
BTW here is a little longer version what was caught on camera:
https://www.facebook.com/24ur.tv/videos/10153766540151438/?pnref=story


----------



## tfd543

Verso said:


> There was actually some guy doing that and people were greatful to him.



Great! Who knows, maybe it saved a life.


----------



## celevac

I always had the impression that people drive much too fast on this part of the A1 motorway. Especially this section Ljubljana-Koper is always a little bit uncomfortable to drive, quite often drivers (especially with Koper plates) try to push through with 180 km/h or faster. I've seen many scary situations in this section and to be honest, don't get me wrong, I'm not surprised that something like this happened... :-(


----------



## keber

This part is one of the most dangerous sections of Slovenian motorways in terms of design (very steep ascent, highest point of motorway network, quite curvy motorway and very unpredictable weather because of peculiar orography of that small area). Tunnel under the hill was also predicted before actual construction (in 70ies and 80ies, but it was considered too costly then).


----------



## Karaya

čarli;130399114 said:


> I don't think that is better&safer to stay in car in that kind of situation
> BTW here is a little longer version what was caught on camera:
> https://www.facebook.com/24ur.tv/videos/10153766540151438/?pnref=story


Not sure about that. There was a death casualty in a similar accident at Višnja Gora or Postojna. One person got out of the car and got killed by a flying debris.


----------



## Solčavec




----------



## belerophon

celevac said:


> I always had the impression that people drive much too fast on this part of the A1 motorway. Especially this section Ljubljana-Koper is always a little bit uncomfortable to drive, quite often drivers (especially with Koper plates) try to push through with 180 km/h or faster. I've seen many scary situations in this section and to be honest, don't get me wrong, I'm not surprised that something like this happened... :-(


We call this maladjusted velocity (the official term in police reports) and thats what it is.


----------



## Verso

Latest report says 56 vehicles were involved. Among involved people were 69 Slovenes, 30 Romanians, 14 Hungarians, 3 Ukrainians, 3 Kosovars, 2 Croatians, 2 Bosnians, a Serb, and a Macedonian (and no Italian?).

http://www.vecer.com/clanek/201602016183226


----------



## Solčavec

> *Toll station take farewell, bids for e-tolling*
> 
> Ljubljana, 12.17.2015
> 
> DARS has opened four bids received in response to the call for the implementation of an electronic toll system. It is advantageous bid consortium Telekom Slovenia and the company Q-Free in Norway in the amount of 99.99 million euros.
> 
> Iskratel Consortium and the Slovak Skytolla offered 110.11 million, Cetis 114.6 million, Kapsch TrafficCom 114.96 million.
> 
> Motorway Company of the Republic of Slovenia (DARS) would otherwise have to offer open immediately after the expiry of the tender in mid-October, but the offer because Kapsch audit request remained sealed. Dars the green light for the opening of the bids received in recent days, when the National Review Commission rejected the request for revision of the public procurement procedure.
> 
> The project must be from the signing of contracts completed within a year, after the introduction of electronic toll collection should Dars tipped the toll station.
> 
> Tender documents for electronic toll collection is in the technologically open. The decision on the selection of technologies toll is left entirely to the provider, but in the context that in this respect puts the European Directive on interoperability of toll systems. In Kapschu are otherwise sure to call favors the satellite toll system.
> 
> Tolling scheme will cover all vehicles weighing more than 3.5 tons, including buses, taking out some exceptions. For all other vehicles weigh less than 3.5 tonnes, it will still be subject to the current system of vignettes.


by-http://www.planet.si/novice/gospodarstvo/cestninske-postaje-jemljejo-slovo-e-cestninjenje-v-roke-telekoma-in-norvezanov.html


----------



## kreden

Nothing has been decided yet, Q-Free offered the lowest price but the bids are still being evaluated.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kapsch provided systems are widespread in central and eastern Europe.


----------



## Verso

Amazing photos of the Črni Kal viaduct.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Marko Korošec always has great photos.


----------



## Eulanthe

Surely if Slovenia also goes to electronic tolling, the EU has to finally wake up and demand a unified system for the EU? It's such nonsense that a truck driver going from Lithuania to Croatia would have to obtain boxes for Poland, the Czech Republic, Austria and Slovenia.

It really should just be a single box with the charge capped at 30 Euro and with the capability of taking tolls from the box in the currency of the box owner.


----------



## belerophon

Eulanthe said:


> Surely if Slovenia also goes to electronic tolling, the EU has to finally wake up and demand a unified system for the EU? It's such nonsense that a truck driver going from Lithuania to Croatia would have to obtain boxes for Poland, the Czech Republic, Austria and Slovenia.
> 
> It really should just be a single box with the charge capped at 30 Euro and with the capability of taking tolls from the box in the currency of the box owner.


Funny, how EU regulations are likewise blamed or welcomed. One box would be nice, yes. A cap would encourage transporting far instead of producing more local. Thats shit.


----------



## kreden

Yes, there is a large seasonal increase, but overall traffic levels are still low. The Jelšane/Rupa border crossing has an AADT of 4500, at Starod/Pasjak (the road to Kozina) it's 4700. Traffic does increase further along up to 6-7k on both roads and to 11k between Postojna and Pivka, but apart from the latter section, it's quite low. Upgrades to the current road and bypasses of towns along the route would probably be sufficient for quite some time.

That is also all that is planned for the Kozina - Starod road, as far as I'm aware.


----------



## Solčavec

The priority also includes an extension(3+3) Ljubljana ring and some parts of A1. 
The average traffic already exceeds 10.000 trucks per day. Drive lane on A1 has become useless, overtaking between trucks is becoming a big problem.


----------



## smokiboy

When is this planned, and is there space for this widening?


----------



## Verso

smokiboy said:


> Has there been any recent talk of connecting Kozina - Rupa?


Last time this motorway was seriously considered was in times of Yugoslavia.



kreden said:


> The Jelšane/Rupa border crossing has an AADT of 4500, at Starod/Pasjak (the road to Kozina) it's 4700. Traffic does increase further along up to 6-7k on both roads


Between Ilirska Bistrica and Pivka it falls to as low as 3,600 due to the parallel road through Knežak.


----------



## andy276

smokiboy said:


> I would propose from Novo Mesto to Karlovac (CRO) or direct to A1 in Croatia as an interesting link, but not sure if there is demand for such a route.


There are plans for that. Someone was actually just asking about it in this thread. I'd say the demand is relatively high because in addition to connecting Central Slovenia and everything to the northwest of it to Dalmatia, it would also bring a much better route from the towns of Metlika and Črnomelj to the rest of Slovenia. It won't be built anytime soon though. And in contrast with other routes, Croatia even has reason to oppose this one as it would mean less tolls for them since people wouldn't drive via Zagreb anymore.

As far as the Kozina-Starod/Pasjak route is concerned, I think everyone's aware that it's the shortest overland link between Italy and most of the Croatian coastline, but since it almost exclusively serves Italian tourists going to Croatia, it would make very little sense for Slovenia to fund such a project. Besides, as long as the vignette system is in place, I'd say most people will actually prefer not having a motorway or expressway there. Croatia seems to consider the route to Postojna more important as well since they built their motorway to Rupa and not Pasjak.


----------



## smokiboy

Thanks for the explanation. I agree with you. And to add, at that point, if all these 'dream' motorways/expressways are ever built in Slovenia, then I'm afraid that that would be too many motorways for Slovenia to economically support/maintain. The 'economies of scale' start working against you.

Anyway, SLO has by far the best network in former YU. I'd think 90% of the population is not further than some 25km or so from a motorway.


----------



## Karaya

Some are dreamy others are just a bit overdimensioned or maybe not even that. There is a tendency that DARS (state motorway company) will take charge of building the new road/motorway projects. This is happening in the parts where completely new road is necessary. Of course, these new "super main roads" would be under the vignette system and that's not a problem since most of the Slovenians have a year vignette. DARS makes lots of money with A1 (and A2) and has a bigger budget than 100% state funded Agency for the infrastructure.


----------



## italystf

andy276 said:


> There are plans for that. Someone was actually just asking about it in this thread. I'd say the demand is relatively high because in addition to connecting Central Slovenia and everything to the northwest of it to Dalmatia, it would also bring a much better route from the towns of Metlika and Črnomelj to the rest of Slovenia. It won't be built anytime soon though. And in contrast with other routes, Croatia even has reason to oppose this one as it would mean less tolls for them since people wouldn't drive via Zagreb anymore.
> 
> As far as the Kozina-Starod/Pasjak route is concerned, I think everyone's aware that it's the shortest overland link between Italy and most of the Croatian coastline, but since it almost exclusively serves Italian tourists going to Croatia, it would make very little sense for Slovenia to fund such a project. Besides, as long as the vignette system is in place, I'd say most people will actually prefer not having a motorway or expressway there. Croatia seems to consider the route to Postojna more important as well since they built their motorway to Rupa and not Pasjak.


It would have been much better if Yugoslavia had built a lot of motorways connecting its main cities before its dissolution. It would have been more easy to build motorways when there weren't borders and international relations issues between the 6 countries. But, like other communist countries, they built hardly any motorways.
I think international connections like Trieste-Rijeka, Trieste-Umag, Ljubljana-Rijeka should be heavily financed with EU funds, with an EGTC-like scheme.
It's not only a problem of the I-SLO-HR area though, as in many areas of Europe bad highways gaps exist across international borders. Italy, for example, will benefit also with a direct link Innsbruck-Munich, the full upgrade of Swiss A13, and a direct connection between Mont Blanc tunnel and French A40.


----------



## Gedeon

italystf said:


> It would have been much better if Yugoslavia had built a lot of motorways connecting its main cities before its dissolution. It would have been more easy to build motorways when there weren't borders and international relations issues between the 6 countries. But, like other communist countries, *they built hardly any motorways*.


I don't think your statement is fair. Yugoslavia firstly focused on building a modern state road network, because even after WW2 there were hardly any decent roads in most parts of Yugoslavia. In 70's focus shifted on building motorway network, starting with upgrade of Ljubljana-Zagreb-Belgrade road to motorway standards and building motorway bypasses and ring roads (Ljubljana bypass, Zagreb bypass, Belgrade bypass). There were also works on other motorways (Ljubljana-Koper, Ljubljana-Maribor, Zagreb-Rijeka, Belgrade-Novi Sad, Belgrade-Niš-Skopje...).


----------



## stickedy

And they have done a rather good work in construction good Magistral roads. And don't forget, Yugoslavia was short on money. And you can't build roads without money...


----------



## Verso

Yugoslavia didn't build even 1,000 km of motorways.


----------



## darko06

italystf,
don't bother with Gedeon. He sometimes stated something without checking.
E.g., Belgrade beltway was considered unnecessary because the only truly motorway part of Brotherhood and Unity thruway was Belgrade inner expressway, from Surčin to Bubanj Potok, finished in early seventies. All other parts were semi-expressways, Zagreb-Belgrade without interchanges and later Zagreb-Ljubljana, Naklo-Ljubelj and Bubanj Potok-Gevgelija with interchanges (there was an interruption in Niš too).
In late sixties communist administrations of Slovenia and Croatia tried to construct their motorway axes (Šentilj-Maribor-Ljubljana-Koper and Zagreb-Karlovac-Rijeka as true motorways), and Tito fired them. Let's say that in 1976 in Yugoslavia existed less than 100 km of motorways (Vrhnika-Postojna cca 30 km, Zagreb-Karlovac and before Rijeka cca 50 km and Belgrade inner motorway cca 20 km.
The thruway of Brotherhood and Unity was started to convert in true motorway after 1975, financed in whole from EEC (today EU) as a bypass with Greece and Western Europe. It is common fact that late Slobodan Milošević was a bank official from a Belgrade impex bank, who in early eighties succesfully negotiated an extended loan for Belgrade-Niš motorway.

As far as I remember,
in Yugoslavia in 1990 there were finished motorways:
1. Parts stated above, 100 km, financed in whole with Yugoslav either federal or Republic funding.
2. Parts of completing Brotherhood and Unity thruway:
2a. Ljubljana-Naklo, cca 20 km,
2b. Jankomir-Brodski Stupnik, cca 190 km,
2c. Bubanj Potok-Trupale near Niš, cca 220km,
2d. Kumanovo- (Titov) Veles, cca 80 km,
2e. Gevgelija bypass, cca 5 km, alltogether cca 515 km.
3. Vrhnika-Log-Ljubljana Southern beltway, cca 20 km (in Slovenia)
4. Tetovo-Gostivar, as an abart between true motorway and Italian Superstrada, with speed limit of 80 kmh (was driving there several years ago), 20 km.
Summa summarum cca 650 kms, of which 520 were funded with European Money exclusively. Truth hurts.


----------



## roaddor

It is actually Slovenia that has to build its north-south expressways if not even highways with Croatia, given the fact that the country switched from toll taxes to vignettes. In other words you already charge the vehicles per certain time period (week/month/year) rather than per travelled distance, so statements like most people would probably prefer not to have a motorway or expressway do not sound serious. Everybody wants to use at least an expressway in stead of a typical single carriageway with two lanes and if you increase the capacity of the pipe, you will only benefit from it because such a road then serves more vehicles per unit of time. It does not matter if you travel 200+km or just 30km through Slovenia, you pay the same vignette but it matters if you shorten the distance by 50-60km and use only fast roads.
Slovenia is at the crossroads of central Europe and your existing highways handle a lot of traffic. Come on guys you can build these strategic missing links (from Ptuj, Novo Mesto, Postojna and even Izola to Croatia respectively) very fast if you want. Moreover the prices of your vignettes (up to 3.5t) are everything but cheap:

Slovenia:
1 week - 15 EUR
1 month - 30 EUR
1 year - 110 EUR

Austria:
10 days - 8.80, approx. 9 EUR
2 months - 25.70, approx. 26 EUR
1 year - 85.70, approx. 86 EUR


----------



## Gedeon

Belgrade bypass construction started before 90's.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ It started in November 1990 according to B92


----------



## darko06

And I agree in whole with italystf that the projected motorway from Villa Opicina through Kozina and Rupa to Rijeka was and is worth finishing. It was so-called third Osimo motorway (first was Razdrto-Villese, second was Razdrto-Fernetti).


----------



## andy276

roaddor said:


> It is actually Slovenia that has to build its north-south expressways if not even highways with Croatia, given the fact that the country switched from toll taxes to vignettes. In other words you already charge the vehicles per certain time period (week/month/year) rather than per travelled distance, so statements like most people would probably prefer not to have a motorway or expressway do not sound serious. Everybody wants to use at least an expressway in stead of a typical single carriageway with two lanes and if you increase the capacity of the pipe, you will only benefit from it because such a road then serves more vehicles per unit of time. It does not matter if you travel 200+km or just 30km through Slovenia, you pay the same vignette but it matters if you shorten the distance by 50-60km and use only fast roads.


My comment was directed specifically at the Kozina-Starod route. The existing road there is about as straight as it can be, so a new motorway/expressway would only shave off about 1 km. Would you be willing to pay €15 to save 5, maybe 10 minutes? I agree that the vignettes should be cheaper, but for such short routes, they'll always be too expensive.


----------



## darko06

It is interesting that the expressway part from Koper to Rabujez/Rabuiese costs 15 euro (a weekly vignette) where the expresway & motorway parts from Rabuiese to Aurisina toll booths are free.
Moreover, after entering Slovenia at Rabujez there is a self-made panel with warning in Slovenian: Vozite po cesti katera nima uporabnega dovolenja. Zaračunanje cestnine ni legalno (You're driving on a road which don't possess usage permit (therefore) taking toll is not legal).


----------



## Verso

roaddor said:


> It is actually Slovenia that has to build its north-south expressways if not even highways with Croatia, given the fact that the country switched from toll taxes to vignettes. In other words you already charge the vehicles per certain time period (week/month/year) rather than per travelled distance, so statements like most people would probably prefer not to have a motorway or expressway do not sound serious. Everybody wants to use at least an expressway in stead of a typical single carriageway with two lanes and if you increase the capacity of the pipe, you will only benefit from it because such a road then serves more vehicles per unit of time. It does not matter if you travel 200+km or just 30km through Slovenia, you pay the same vignette but it matters if you shorten the distance by 50-60km and use only fast roads.
> Slovenia is at the crossroads of central Europe and your existing highways handle a lot of traffic. Come on guys you can build these strategic missing links (from Ptuj, Novo Mesto, Postojna and even Izola to Croatia respectively) very fast if you want.


Roads to Croatia are rather empty.

http://www.di.gov.si/fileadmin/di.g.../Stetje_prometa/Prometne_obremenitve_2014.pdf


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> Roads to Croatia are rather empty.
> 
> http://www.di.gov.si/fileadmin/di.g.../Stetje_prometa/Prometne_obremenitve_2014.pdf


I think things will change when (if) Croatia will join Schengen.
Moreover, AADT is not a good indicator for roads that have strong seasonal traffic variation because they lead to sea tourism locations. They should use ASDT instead.


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> Moreover, AADT is not a good indicator for roads that have strong seasonal traffic variation because they lead to sea tourism locations. They should use ASDT instead.


Just as I didn't use winter traffic figures, I didn't use summer figures either. Why should we pay for motorways for Croatian tourism? An average Slovenian (obviously not counting locals here) drives once a year or less on these roads. It's easy for foreigners (who also drive there only once a year or less) to demand motorways from us, because they know they won't pay for their construction and maintenance anyway. Unless they are heavily subsidized by the EU.


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> Just as I didn't use winter traffic figures, I didn't use summer figures either. Why should we pay for motorways for Croatian tourism? An average Slovenian (obviously not counting locals here) drives once a year or less on these roads. It's easy for foreigners (who also drive there only once a year or less) to demand motorways from us, because they know they won't pay for their construction and maintenance anyway. *Unless they are heavily subsidized by the EU.*


That was my point.
Inter-regional EU cooperation projects exist for such reasons.


----------



## MichiH

^^ EU funds should be spent for economic reasons. On the other hand, tourism is an important economic sector... for Croatia...


----------



## Festin

Verso said:


> Just as I didn't use winter traffic figures, I didn't use summer figures either. Why should we pay for motorways for Croatian tourism? An average Slovenian (obviously not counting locals here) drives once a year or less on these roads. It's easy for foreigners (who also drive there only once a year or less) to demand motorways from us, because they know they won't pay for their construction and maintenance anyway. Unless they are heavily subsidized by the EU.


The irony when you are stucked in the slo-cro border for hours, only to realize there is an older border a few km's away....

But I think you can win alot by building a larger rest area before the border with croatia where people can pay with euros for the fuel and food. 
You also lose the heavy traffic around the local villages.


----------



## roaddor

It is not only about the mere tourism in Croatia, it is about constant opportunities to attract more traffic. The activities in Croatia, whatever they are, heavily depend on the infrastructure and nowadays a lot of countries in Western and Central Europe except Hungary go exactly through Slovenia in order to reach the eventual destinations in Croatia, provided people do not take airplanes. It is about the potential of these roads which remain underestimated. If you are planning a fast road, you certainly do it for your own needs first but with the notion to make use of your geographical location and stimulate the capacity on a regional, broader scale not only local one. Moreover, you have attractive places too so it is a dual process of interaction. You would probably not disregard that matter if for example Austria had gaps in its motorway network with Slovenia. It is a whole chain and each European country takes part in one way or another in it.


----------



## kreden

ASDT is used as an indicator, too, but it's not given the same weight as in countries where traffic might be much more seasonal in nature overall. The reason (IMO) is simple: at the end of the day, with or without seasonal traffic, a motorway has to make economic sense. If you build a motorway too early, before there is any real demand, you're just wasting money and making a loss when that money could be put into better alternatives. Worse still if you finance it through debt.



roaddor said:


> It is not only about the mere tourism in Croatia, it is about constant opportunities to attract more traffic. The activities in Croatia, whatever they are, heavily depend on the infrastructure and nowadays a lot of countries in Western and Central Europe except Hungary go exactly through Slovenia in order to reach the eventual destinations in Croatia, provided people do not airplanes. It is about the potential of these roads which remain underestimated. If you are planning a fast road, you certainly do it for your own needs first but with the notion to make use of your geographical location and stimulate the capacity on a regional, broader scale not only local one. Moreover, you have attractive places too so it is a dual process of interaction. You would probably not disregard that matter if for example Austria had gaps in its motorway network with Slovenia. It is a whole chain and each European country takes part in one way or another in it.


Let's be fair, though. We are talking about 20-40 kilometre gaps here, nothing that would seriously affect Croatia's accessibility in terms of long-distance traffic. It's not like reaching the Baltic countries, where the gaps are substantial. If anything, border controls are potentially a much bigger issue, as were customs checks before Croatia joined the EU. Besides, the busiest route has a motorway link, as will the second busiest in a couple of years.


----------



## Solčavec

I do not see the highway built on the Croatian side near Krapina(A2) or near Novigrad(A9), although you pay the highway. Also on the Hungarian side M70, or M86/E86. Should we complain?


----------



## Verso

kreden said:


> If you build a motorway too early, before there is any real demand, you're just wasting money


Don't tell Saudi Arabia.


----------



## Solčavec

^^Or Croatia! They repay loans for motorways without any problems.:lol:


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## italystf

Verso said:


> Don't tell Saudi Arabia.


Let alone Cuba, Myanmar, North Korea and Turkmenistan. :lol:


----------



## roaddor

That is true, the Croatians have some remaining work to do with the difference that those missing elements are within the already built highways to the border itself while you haven't even started yet with yours. As I looked more carefully at the map, Zagreb-Maribor is definitely an important corridor while the same can not be said for the other road which has only a local meaning to the Istria peninsula. There is not a single motorway or expressway connection, however, from Bregana/Obrezje to the Adriatic Sea along the border and that is the main point. You haven't built Postojna-Rupa not because it won't carry traffic, on the contrary, the real reason is that the port of Koper which will lose its importance almost completely to that of Rijeka as a bigger port where the majority of ships will dock. Novo Mesto-Vinica-Bosiljevo is the other natural route which should have already been opened to service, going all the way north from Dalmatia around Ljubljana to Karavanke tunnel and Austria.
In the end, everybody has his own priorities, as far as I know Croatia will obviously focus on the Peljesac bridge and the connection of Dubrovnik with their A1.


----------



## Solčavec

roaddor said:


> You haven't built Postojna-Rupa not because it won't carry traffic, on the contrary, the real reason is that the port of Koper which will lose its importance almost completely to that of Rijeka as a bigger port where the majority of ships will dock.


Yeah right?:nuts: Port of Trieste and Venice have better road and rail links than Koper, not to speak of other Adriatic ports. Rijeka also has better connections, especially railway(two tracks, 22.5 t/axis all the way to Hungary), road D404. Koper port is good evidence, that is first necessary to fill existing capacity, then the construction of new ones. More than 60% of cargo coming into the port by railway. The highest priority of Slovenia's 1.4 billion € worth construction of the second track Divača-Koper before 2020.:cheers:


----------



## Verso

roaddor said:


> There is not a single motorway or expressway connection, however, from Bregana/Obrezje to the Adriatic Sea along the border and that is the main point.


There are motorways from Bregana/Obrežje to the Adriatic Sea in Slovenia and Croatia.



roaddor said:


> You haven't built Postojna-Rupa not because it won't carry traffic, on the contrary, the real reason is that the port of Koper which will lose its importance almost completely to that of Rijeka as a bigger port where the majority of ships will dock.


Most of cargo gets to the port of Koper by train, even though the port of Rijeka is closer from all directions except Italy (which brings only 9% of traffic to Koper).


Perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to construct only a motorway Kozina-Rupa, which would be shorter and much cheaper than Postojna-Rupa, it would directly connect Trieste with Rijeka (as well as Koper with Rijeka), and connection between Ljubljana and Rijeka wouldn't be that bad either. Only Ilirska Bistrica would be against such an idea.


----------



## x-type

Solčavec;132378011 said:


> I do not see the highway built on the Croatian side near Krapina(A2) or near Novigrad(A9), although you pay the highway. Also on the Hungarian side M70, or M86/E86. Should we complain?


so you are comparing this and this to this and this?












Solčavec;132388454 said:


> Yeah right?:nuts: Port of Trieste and Venice have better road and rail links than Koper, not to speak of other Adriatic ports. Rijeka also has better connections, especially railway(two tracks, 22.5 t/axis all the way to Hungary), road D404. Koper port is good evidence, that is first necessary to fill existing capacity, then the construction of new ones. More than 60% of cargo coming into the port by railway. The highest priority of Slovenia's 1.4 billion € worth construction of the second track Divača-Koper before 2020.:cheers:


railroad Hungary - Rijeka has exactly 20 km of double track. so less than Koper. (and we both know that both Koper and Rijeka woul do anything just to get quality rail connection to Hungary, now, or in 1990es).


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## roaddor

Sorry it was my mistake, I meant possible highways across the border from Bregana/ Obrezje to the Adriatic Sea. 

The pictures below show the port, rail (freight) and road infrastructure as part of the TEN-T network (RRT: rail-road terminal). I am sure you are familiar with that map and hope is clear now that it is not only about the naked tourism . If we take Munich, Vienna and Budapest as the nearest major transport destinations from Koper, it is only 10km more from Rijeka towards the first two locations but more than 30 minutes in travelling time. Budapest is served a bit better from Rijeka since you won't pass through Slovenia at all. The sea path, however, is about 50km more from the tip of Istria to Koper than to Rijeka.
You can build guys whatever you want in Slovenia but you can not hide the fact that the port of Rijeka is blocked from its fast access to the inner continental logistic destinations. Besides, if Koper is performing so well, what bothers you then to upgrade the missing 35km from Postojna to Rupa. It is just another source of money when the respective multimodal traffic is using your modern rail-road network.

*Railways (freight), ports and RRTs*









*Roads, ports, RRTs and airports*


----------



## Solčavec

x-type said:


> so you are comparing this and this to this and this?


No! You pay this sections in Croatia, and that is called robbery. Thank God that there are alternatives.

Everything indicates that we will have a full profile built much earlier(A4,H6/5) than Croatia. Except Jelšane/Rupa.


----------



## Karaya

Why are we having the same troll debate every few months? Some random guy just poping up saying how SLO taxpayers should provide cheap transit and build motorways that don't repay. I mean... WTF?


----------



## MichiH

^^ A never ending story for our forum. I think the only solution is that Slovenia must finally build all requested motorways asap  .


----------



## kozorog

A1 near Vrhnika, today.


----------



## Verso

roaddor said:


> You can build guys whatever you want in Slovenia but you can not hide the fact that the port of Rijeka is blocked from its fast access to the inner continental logistic destinations.


By road yes, by rail no (at least not more than Koper).



roaddor said:


> Besides, if Koper is performing so well, what bothers you then to upgrade the missing 35km from Postojna to Rupa. It is just another source of money when the respective multimodal traffic is using your modern rail-road network.


Again: lack of traffic. But if you think we should build motorways to Croatia so that the port of Rijeka can have more traffic, that's outright crazy. Do you think Italians should build a high-speed railway to Slovenia so that the port of Koper can take traffic from Italian ports? Do you think they are so altruistic? :lol: They will build it when there is demand for it.


----------



## italystf

threo2k said:


> Is this snow from today (28.04.2016) ???


Yesterday there was quite a lot of snow in the Alps in Italy, Austria and Slovenia, as low as 500-600 meters. Tarvisio (around 700m) got 30 cm!


----------



## rudiwien

Also around 30 cm in many parts of Carinthia (Kärnten), and up to 1m on the Karawanks.. 
In some regions they had more snow than in the whole winter, and in many regions the amounts were new records for the month of April.

For tomorrow and Satuday, temperatures are forecast to be back to around 15°, so at least in the lower regions the snow should be gone rather soon...


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> Yesterday there was quite a lot of snow in the Alps in Italy, Austria and Slovenia, as low as 500-600 meters.


It snowed heavily in Ljubljana and NE Slovenia, which is even lower.


----------



## Pascal20a

Does anybody know when H6 will be in construction to Lucija?
Thank you for your answers


----------



## Verso

DARS says next year.


----------



## keber

Today in the morning a truck carrying wheat caught fire right in the 1633 m long tunnel Jasovnik on A1 (between exits Vransko-Trojane). Truck burned completely, damaging also tunnel walls and equipment. "Journalists" now write that bigger hole has appeared in tunnel ceiling which is complete nonsense. Actually just some parts of a plaster have come down because of heat and should be easy to repair.

Tunnel is closed in direction of Ljubljana and will stay so "for several days" for repairs. As this motorway is already prone to congestion there are constant traffic jams before Vransko exit where traffic is rerouted to parallel regional road.



















http://www.rtvslo.si/crna-kronika/avtocesta-med-vranskim-in-trojanami-bo-zaprta-dlje-casa/392722


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## ChrisZwolle

keber said:


> "Journalists"


The quality of journalism has tanked across the board in the last 2 decades. Due to the internet, advertising revenue for news papers has dropped and many internet news paper stories are in fact written by unpaid interns. Most of the time those 'journalists' don't seem to have any knowledge of the subject, which is necessary to do fact-checking and put things in context / perspective.


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## kozorog

http://www.zurnal24.si/v-predoru-gorel-tovornjak-clanek-270479


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## Verso

Only 100 m before the end of the tunnel.


----------



## keber

Apparently that "big hole" in the ceiling was not that severe so one lane is already opened after fast repairs. Complete repair will be done in next few days.


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## Verso

Motorway Postojna-Jelšane(-Rijeka) to be built by 2038. :laugh:

http://primorske.si/Novice/Srednja/Avtocesta-bi-se-proti-Jelsanam-odcepila-ze-pri-Pos


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## keber

I believe it will happen sooner than in 22 years. Traffic is steadily growing again causing more and more congestion on roads and motorways.


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## Solčavec

The first part of the third development axis; Velenje-Slovenj Gradec is expected to begin construction in 2018. Only the section A1-Velenje-Slovenj Gradec will be 2+2. Other parts of the third development axis will be 1+1.

http://www.rtvslo.si/gospodarstvo/prva-dela-na-tretji-razvojni-osi-leta-2018/392385


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## Verso

I expect the last part of the Third Developmental Axis to be built will be between Celje and Novo mesto since it doesn't serve Ljubljana.


----------



## celevac

A4 Draženci-Podlehnik - pictures taken yesterday (21.05.)




























These are all pics from the first 3-4 km of the section.

The northern part is pretty advanced (first 2-3 km), the southern part is still a little behind, in comparison. At Podlehnik there is no construction yet around the overpass (end of the section). 

A4 Podlehnik-Gruškovje:
Preparatory works have been carried out, especially in the valley just before the border crossing. Euro-Asfalt is present there and trucks are driving around. Not too much going on yet.


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## tfd543

What is the less time-consuming road from koper to porec? there are 2 roads to the croatian border. Either the H6 through Izola or E751 to Salara? Google says 5 min less with E751.


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## andy276

Yes, road 11/E751 is normally faster; H6/111 is longer and often has dense traffic between Izola and Portorož. But you might also want to check which border crossing (Dragonja or Sečovlje) is less busy at that particular moment in case there are queues. Another possible alternative in case there are long queues at both (or you just want to avoid the Croatian toll) is Črni Kal-Sočerga-Buzet-Vižinada-Poreč.


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## Verso

Traffic accident on A1 between Logatec and Vrhnika -> 30-km traffic jam before Logatec.


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## tfd543

andy276 said:


> Yes, road 11/E751 is normally faster; H6/111 is longer and often has dense traffic between Izola and Portorož. But you might also want to check which border crossing (Dragonja or Sečovlje) is less busy at that particular moment in case there are queues. Another possible alternative in case there are long queues at both (or you just want to avoid the Croatian toll) is Črni Kal-Sočerga-Buzet-Vižinada-Poreč.



Thanks man.


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## tfd543

Im looking at the website of Promet. http://www.promet.si/portal/en/1traffic-conditions.aspx. On the left hand there is a list of waiting times at different borders. What does LJ, MP and KP mean ?


----------



## italystf

x-type said:


> I have noticed one nice thing at A1 this week - you have finally changed direction sign at this place:
> https://www.google.hr/maps/@45.7596...4!1s7_HNJiwyF9h2A4hrKIEYDg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
> 
> do H4 doesn't head to Nova Gorica only, but now you have Udine and something more (Ajdovščina maybe?) on it.
> 
> (btw, why is Novo *m*esto, but Nova *G*orica?)


This is an old sign, as new ones have Trst/Trieste and not just Trst.


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## SRC_100

For me it`s curious/bizzarne that e.g Trst or Gorica belongs to Italy.


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## Verso

Ouch, hot topic.


----------



## Fab87

Lol troll ^^
Anyway today I had a quite scary drive experience on A1 between Lukovica and Ljubjana, very heavy rain and suddendly visibility was way less than 50m.
I know you guys don't wanna hear about this, but rainy countries should seriously consider draining asphalt. I know it has some mantenaince issues when it is freezing cold, but it is a game changer when it comes to safety during rainy days. Today it was really scary. The rain came suddendly and i could not see the car which was 50 m in front of me, i had to slow down to 50km/h and switch the flashing lights on, hoping no one from behind would crash me...


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## WalkTheWorld

Drive SLO


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## Verso

Fab87 said:


> Anyway today I had a quite scary drive experience on A1 between Lukovica and Ljubjana, very heavy rain and suddendly visibility was way less than 50m.
> I know you guys don't wanna hear about this, but rainy countries should seriously consider draining asphalt. I know it has some mantenaince issues when it is freezing cold, but it is a game changer when it comes to safety during rainy days. Today it was really scary. The rain came suddendly and i could not see the car which was 50 m in front of me, i had to slow down to 50km/h and switch the flashing lights on, hoping no one from behind would crash me...


Slovenia promotes adrenalin tourism. :troll:


----------



## x-type

italystf said:


> This is an old sign, as new ones have Trst/Trieste and not just Trst.


and where have I exactly written that the sign on Street View is the new one? i don't see Udine and Ajdovščina on it as I've said that new one has.


----------



## Verso

Accident on A1 by Postojna => 20-km queue.


----------



## roaddor

Fab87 said:


> Lol troll ^^
> Anyway today I had a quite scary drive experience on A1 between Lukovica and Ljubjana, very heavy rain and suddendly visibility was way less than 50m.
> I know you guys don't wanna hear about this, but rainy countries should seriously consider draining asphalt. I know it has some mantenaince issues when it is freezing cold, but it is a game changer when it comes to safety during rainy days. Today it was really scary. The rain came suddendly and i could not see the car which was 50 m in front of me, i had to slow down to 50km/h and switch the flashing lights on, hoping no one from behind would crash me...


If it rained cats and dogs, even the best drainage system would not be enough. By the way Slovenian highways are pretty good but it also depends to a big extent on the tyres for the stability in such conditions.


----------



## g.spinoza

roaddor said:


> If it rained cats and dogs, even the best drainage system would not be enough


I disagree. I had a similar experience on German motorways, everybody stopped in the middle of the Autobahn because you couldn't see anything. It never happened to me in Italy, even under very strong rain.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Same in the Netherlands, where they use drainage asphalt everywhere. You can still drive 130 km/h even during heavy rain, because there is almost no spray. 

The worst is concrete, a while ago I was driving from Cloppenburg to Bremen, which is a concrete Autobahn and the rain wasn't even that bad, but there was almost no visibility due to the heavy spray, and the speed went down to 60 km/h.


----------



## roaddor

g.spinoza said:


> I disagree. I had a similar experience on German motorways, everybody stopped in the middle of the Autobahn because you couldn't see anything. It never happened to me in Italy, even under very strong rain.


Sure if there is no visibility at all, everybody will naturally try to stop and wait until the heaviest part of the storm is over but the whole column within the spot should do that simultaneously. At the same time other vehicles coming from behind can be found themselves in much lighter rain so they are jumping with some speed on the cars in front and provided there are no information boards to let them know about the situation, it could get worse.


----------



## x-type

g.spinoza said:


> I disagree. I had a similar experience on German motorways, everybody stopped in the middle of the Autobahn because you couldn't see anything. It never happened to me in Italy, even under very strong rain.


actually it happened to me 2 years ago somewhere around Palmanova. the rain was so strong that i drove 40 km/h halof on emergency lane with emergency lights on, together with many others. however, it lasted for some 5 minutes maybe.


----------



## kreden

Good news regarding the e-tolling tender! The appeals have been rejected by the National Review Commission and Q-Free and Telekom Slovenije will be awarded with the contract. This is the closest Dars has ever been to actually implementing electronic tolling for heavy vehicles, all the previous tenders have failed.


----------



## tfd543

What about e-tolling for cars? Hungary and Slovakia have already introduced that and its very convenient


----------



## kreden

Do you mean e-vignettes? There's nothing new regarding that, it's not part of this project and there are no plans for that currently, at least not officially.


----------



## tfd543

Yes I did. Thanks for info.


----------



## Verso

Oh boy, what an accident on the G1-9 road by the border crossing Gruškovje. A car with five Dutch Bosnians was waiting in a queue to enter Croatia when a truck full of soil fell on it from a dirt road beside and 2-3 meters above G1-9. :crazy: One woman has an injured leg and the other four were very lucky they weren't injured. The truck is owned by the Bosnian company Euro-Asfalt building the A4 motorway, and the dirt road was wet due to a lot of rain, so a landslide occured.



























https://sl-si.facebook.com/115135218661482/photos/?tab=album&album_id=411040309070970

Be careful on your way to Croatia!


----------



## x-type

don't ruin our tourism! be careful while in Slovenia!
:horse:


----------



## Solčavec

^^

Yup, especially tourists(kuča-poso-working-house).


----------



## Eulanthe

kreden said:


> Good news regarding the e-tolling tender! The appeals have been rejected by the National Review Commission and Q-Free and Telekom Slovenije will be awarded with the contract. This is the closest Dars has ever been to actually implementing electronic tolling for heavy vehicles, all the previous tenders have failed.


And more than ever, we need the EU to force through a unified system for e-tolling. There's a complete mess now with some countries using pretty painless systems (Poland/Slovakia), others using more complicated technology, and each country has different requirements. 

I'm just thinking now about a Lithuanian company that gets a one-off order to deliver something in Vienna and then in Zagreb. They would need to get boxes for PL, CZ, A and SLO - each time having to stop and deposit cash at the border to get the box, then get it returned on the way home. That's six completely unnecessary stops, when it should be perfectly realistic for them to agree one contract with Poland's ViaToll and for it to be usable in all the other countries without any fuss.


----------



## sotonsi

Eulanthe said:


> And more than ever, we need the EU to force through a unified system for e-tolling.


Why not the UNECE? It's not like they aren't the main (global) body dealing with international agreements on transport.


----------



## Solčavec

Northern Ljubljana bypass(H3), renovation and expansion of emergency lane.


popaj13 said:


> Slikano z nadvoza Dunajske ceste


----------



## Verso

^^ Emergency lanes were already 3.75 m wide.


----------



## Solčavec

^^


> Obnova, ki bo zaključena v sredini septembra, bo vključevala širitev vozišča ob zunanjem robu za vzpostavitev zapore C2+2 (dva začasna vozna pasova v vsako smer na enem smernem vozišču,..


https://www.dars.si/Novice/Obnova_severne_ljubljanske_obvoznice_1455.aspx


----------



## Verso

I don't know, it doesn't look any wider to me.


----------



## kreden

That sentence doesn't make sense. It implies that they will widen the carriageway to allow four lanes of traffic per carriageway during roadworks, but while they were working on renovating the first carriageway, there already was a 2+2 lane regime on the other, unrenovated one. If they indeed performed any widening at all, it must have been minimal.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, renovation that includes a slight widening of the carriageway to operate a proper 4-0 system during future road works are not uncommon. They're doing that on D1 in Czechia too. 

Germany has some problems with 4-0 systems, they include very narrow lanes with a lot of accidents and congestion with a 60 km/h speed limit. Dutch 4-0 systems usually allow 90 km/h and sometimes even 100 km/h.


----------



## hofburg

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ Same in the Netherlands, where they use drainage asphalt everywhere. You can still drive 130 km/h even during heavy rain, because there is almost no spray.
> 
> The worst is concrete, a while ago I was driving from Cloppenburg to Bremen, which is a concrete Autobahn and the rain wasn't even that bad, but there was almost no visibility due to the heavy spray, and the speed went down to 60 km/h.


Only visibility is much better, road surface is still wet. In Italy they keep 110 km/h limit with _pioggia_.


----------



## Solčavec

Reconstruction A1, Šempeter-Arja vas(6,5km), expansion of emergency lane, upgrading carriageway, due to the annual increase of freight traffic.



Lion007 said:


>


----------



## arctic_carlos

JackFrost said:


> The Slovenian Riviera is beautiful. Its the first time i've been there. Just dont use road 111 to Portoroz. Stood there for almost an hour because of a traffic jam.


Next Sunday I'll drive from Trieste to Rovinj (Croatia) and I've planned to spend some time visiting Piran. Is there any good alternative to road 111 between Piran and the Croatian border?

On the other hand, Saturday next week I'll drive from Bled to Trieste airport, and as my flight departs late in the evening I've thought about going via the Vršič pass and the Soča valley instead of going via Ljubljana. I've read that the road is very scenic, so I hope it's worth the detour. Is the Vršič pass road challenging to drive?

Thanks!


----------



## stickedy

Vrsic is not really challenging, there just a lot (and I mean a lot) of hairpin turns. But the road is in good condition and no real challenge with normal car. And it's not really a detour, you will only need longer. Go for it! It's worth the drive


----------



## kreden

The Vrsic Pass is a very scenic road, definitely worth the drive.

There are no worthwhile alternatives to the 111 between Piran and the Sečovlje border crossing, there's the 11 running from Koper to the border at Dragonja, which you could reach from Piran by local roads, but if there are queues on the 111, the 11 is probably very busy, too.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Very long delays were reported yesterday at the Karavanke Tunnel. Official reports talked about 2.5 hours waiting time, but a Dutch guy said it took him 4 hours and 15 minutes to get through the tunnel, also due to Austrian border checks.


----------



## tfd543

Yea its a hell. Same shit at HU-A point at hegyeshalom.


----------



## junky

On Ö3 (radiostation in Austria) they reported waiting time from 1 to 2 hours today. At 22u it was still 2 hours.


----------



## Verso

Again a long traffic jam has occured on the A1 between Logatec and Vrhnika due to a traffic accident where one person died. I happened to drive there shortly after the accident happened. A truck drove off the road and burnt down. There was no police, firefighters or ambulance there yet (I saw them later near Ljubljana). Some people stopped, but I didn't, because I didn't wanna see dead people.









http://www.zurnal24.si/primorka-je-zaprta-clanek-276436 (not my photo)


----------



## celevac

Verso said:


> Again a long traffic jam has occured on the A1 between Logatec and Vrhnika due to a traffic accident where one person died. I happened to drive there shortly after the accident happened. A truck drove off the road and burnt down. There was no police, firefighters or ambulance there yet (I saw them later near Ljubljana). Some people stopped, but I didn't, because I didn't wanna see dead people.


Yes, must have been really bad. I happened to be in Slovenia this afternoon and they were talking about a 17 km traffic jam after the accident. Also, heavy traffic was reported at Karavanke again - I guess they are taking the border control more seriously now on the Austrian side.


----------



## Verso

^^ It was bad, but it could be even worse, because the truck crashed into a tanker truck, so you can imagine the eventual explosion. It could even damage the Ljubljana-Koper railway, which was very close. The road surface was filled with debris that we had to drive over.









http://www.zurnal24.si/primorka-je-zaprta-clanek-276436


----------



## Solčavec




----------



## junky




----------



## Verso

https://www.facebook.com/EuroAsfalt/posts/1083049651776325


----------



## Eulanthe

Does anyone know if it's better to go through Trieste or Nova Gorica when heading towards Venice from Ljubljana?

(yes, Verso, I'm buying a vignette for Slovenia for the first time in my life :lol


----------



## Verso

Via Nova Gorica it's 80 cents cheaper. :lol:


----------



## kreden

I'd go via Trieste, the road surface on the H4 is horrible at the moment and it's like that for 25 km.


----------



## Eulanthe

Verso said:


> Via Nova Gorica it's 80 cents cheaper. :lol:


:lol: I need to save money after being forced into buying a Slovenian vignette for the first time 

I'm going over the Ljubelj Pass (and hopefully up to the old border crossing) and spending a couple of nights in Ljubljana before heading on to Croatia, so...OK, Slovenia, have my money for once  Still not buying one on the return journey though, traditions must be preserved! 



kreden said:


> I'd go via Trieste, the road surface on the H4 is horrible at the moment and it's like that for 25 km.


Shall do, thank you!

What about Ljubljana-Zadar? Every possible route looks terrible :/


----------



## andy276

Take the A2 towards Zagreb. If you don't mind driving on an average windy regional road, exit at Ivančna Gorica and head towards Črnomelj and then Vinica, and you reach the Croatian A1 at Bosiljevo. Or, if you'd prefer the make the most out of the motorways, exit the A2 at Novo mesto - vzhod and cross the border at Metlika. Anything else is just too much of a detour IMO.


----------



## Verso

I'd go via Zagreb (but it's cheaper via Črnomelj ).


----------



## keber

The fastest route is to take A2 until Novo mesto and then going over main road to Metlika-Novigrad (HR). It is windy road, but it saves time and money (it is still 60 km shorter) and also about 15 minutes faster than over Črnomelj and Vinica. At border crossing Obrežje/Bregana it can easily take additional 10-20 minutes.


----------



## x-type

I agree with keber. 
the loveliest route woud be via Postojna, Ilirska Bistrica, Rijeka, Senj and Žuta Lokva tough. similar distance as the one via Novo mesto and Vinica, just some 40-50 km of state road more (but cheaper toll too).


----------



## keber

^^ Yeah, but it takes almost two hours more. I've driven that some Tuesday afternoon well outside main season and it took me a little bit less than 6 hours, traffic was minimal.


----------



## x-type

keber said:


> ^^ Yeah, but it takes almost two hours more. I've driven that some Tuesday afternoon well outside main season and it took me a little bit less than 6 hours, traffic was minimal.


6 hrs?? i counted on 3,5 max. i think you can come to Rijeka in 2 hrs, and from there you have 1,5 to Žuta Lokva (i drove Žuta Lokva - Rijeka 3 weeks ago sunday afternoon, medium traffic).


----------



## x-type

i have found now exact times: i was at 13h11 at Vratnik playing Ingress and at 14h34 filled at Vrata Jadrana (Rijeka bypass). medium traffic, on Rijeka bypass little bit heavier, strong wind, me carrying bikes on car (i usually don't overtake with bike holder). so from Ljubljana you can definitely do it in 3,5 hrs (unless there is crowd at border)


----------



## andy276

He probably meant 6 hours for the entire way to Zadar.


----------



## x-type

oh so. stupid me


----------



## jamlc1m

Hi, 
just returned from Croatia recently and when driving from Maribor to Zagreb it looked like the last missing piece of motorway between Drazenci and the SI/HR border is being built. is this correct? Is there a date for the completion of this piece?
thanks!


----------



## Puležan

jamlc1m said:


> Hi,
> just returned from Croatia recently and when driving from Maribor to Zagreb it looked like the last missing piece of motorway between Drazenci and the SI/HR border is being built. is this correct? Is there a date for the completion of this piece?
> thanks!


Yes, it's correct. First post on this page shows a youtube video of that section u/c.

If I'm not mistaken, the completion date for A4 is the middle of 2018.


----------



## jamlc1m

Shoot, was hoping that next year the motorway would already be completed... It's quite a long construction time for 14 kilometers... (not that it would be any quicker in our country  )

Thanks for the info anyways!


----------



## tfd543

Rome wasn't build in one day


----------



## Verso

jamlc1m said:


> Hi,
> just returned from Croatia recently and when driving from Maribor to Zagreb it looked like the last missing piece of motorway between Drazenci and the SI/HR border is being built. is this correct? Is there a date for the completion of this piece?
> thanks!


Check out this post.


----------



## Verso

Maybe in an American court. :lol:


----------



## hofburg

Črni Kal will be soon 12 years old

http://siol.net/avtomoto/zgodbe/via...ek-ki-navdusuje-tudi-po-15-letih-video-425817


----------



## 1772

Are there any plans to improve highway/railroad infrastructure through Slovenia? Since it connects eastern Europe to southern Europe, there should be straighter roads between Italy, Ljubjana and Hungary. Perhaps also high speed trains and transportation trains?

Obviously this would be a cross-country project with the surrounding countries gettign involved.


----------



## keber

Straight line between Pince and Sežana is 230 km and over motorway is 305 km, about 30% more which is normal for mostly hilly terrain. Why would you straighten that? Billions of euros for 30 minutes less driving?

And motorways are in first phase build for domestic travels. There will be third lanes in future and few new expressways for connecting other regions, but nothing more.


----------



## kreden

I agree, I don't see the purpose of a duplicate motorway/railway, they are not a straight line in any country. As for high speed rail, there is not nearly enough demand for anything of the sort to be feasible until European intercountry population mobility increases to something more similar to US interstate levels or interregional levels in most European countries.


----------



## Verso

Our railways should definitely be faster though, but that's OT here.


----------



## Verso

Today they opened 3 km of A4 south of Ptuj, but only half, of course.









http://www.rtvslo.si/lokalne-novice/zgrajen-prvi-del-polovice-avtoceste-med-drazenci-in-gruskovjem/403841









http://shrani.si/f/21/CT/4Hw3B0zi/vfbgn.png


----------



## celevac

So I got to drive there last night. It's good to see progress. The speed limit of 50 km/h all the way is a little annoying though. 

I also noticed that the entire section is progressing pretty well. I think that they will definitely make it by November 2017 - if the winter doesn't get nasty maybe even 1-2 months earlier.


----------



## tfd543

November 2017 all the way from Ptuj to the border ?


----------



## Verso

No, only Ptuj-Podlehnik (7 km), the rest by the end of 2018.


----------



## tfd543

Cool. Now that we are at it, before independence, was there a border with passport control b/w socialist republics of SLO-HR ?


----------



## Luki_SL

Verso said:


> Today they opened 3 km of A4 south of Ptuj, but only half, of course.


It`s mean that the old carriageway will be close soon. It should be upgraded to "A" road status.


----------



## Verso

^^ It's already closed on those 3 km.



tfd543 said:


> Cool. Now that we are at it, before independence, was there a border with passport control b/w socialist republics of SLO-HR ?


No, there were no controls. I don't think there were even signs for republics.


----------



## keber

Luki_SL said:


> It`s mean that the old carriageway will be close soon. It should be upgraded to "A" road status.


There are still just two temporary lanes with 50 km/h in continuous work zone.


----------



## keber

New type of horizontal signalisation on regional roads that uses new signage rules:


senitelsi said:


> Preplastitev ceste Planina-Grčarevec(del).


Widened double line should help to prevent mostly motorcycle accidents. Dashed side line is new and (at least on our forum) it is still not known in which cases it is used. as full solid line can be used too.


----------



## hofburg

Reminds me of french style. However, most roads are too narrow for that.


----------



## italystf

^^ Maybe dashed edge lines means that is it allowed to stop?


----------



## Verso

keber said:


> Dashed side line is new


My street has had it since 2009, but it's a narrow one-way street.


----------



## keber

City streets have short dashed lines for parking areas or cycle paths, that is nothing new. Above road has completely new style with long dashed lines.
@italystf: stopping is allowed on side niches only, on that road many drive pretty fast. It is former main road before Vrhnika-Postojna motorway was built in 1972.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That is very similar to the Netherlands. The double center line helps keeping opposing traffic flows further apart. Dutch driving lanes on 80 km/h roads are only 2.75 m wide.


----------



## italystf

In Austria and Hungary some roads have double median line, with the space in between coloured (green in Austria or red in Hungary).


----------



## Verso

keber said:


> City streets have short dashed lines for parking areas or cycle paths, that is nothing new.


There's no cycle path in my street. There're parking spaces, but the dashed lines are drawn along the entire length of the street on both sides.


----------



## Verso

A1×H3:









http://www.rtvslo.si/slovenija/404-milijoni-za-krpanje-asfalta-in-gradnjo-novih-cest-po-sloveniji/404700


----------



## Broccolli

Accident occurred in Markovec tunnel week ago due to hydraulic failure (open-box bed section)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH7m1vrwGSM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEp-2oo059E


----------



## Verso

H5×H6×G1-11 in Koper:









http://www.delo.si/novice/slovenija/do-hitre-ceste-v-istro-se-dalec.html


----------



## roaddor

^^
^^
^^
Suggestion for the junction: Melanija


----------



## Verso

^ It's called 'Zadobrova'. 'Melanija' could be some junction in Sevnica. :lol:


----------



## Gyorgy

And it's a very old photo, probably from 2008 or 2009 (as they started to build "Planet Tuš")

Our media have always plenty of old photos for their recycled multiple usage


----------



## Verso

^^ I guess you're talking about Koper, not Zadobrova. There's also a roundabout missing in the upper left side of the photo.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

What's going on with the construction of Karawanken tunnel's 2nd tube?


----------



## čarli1

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> What's going on with the construction of Karawanken tunnel's 2nd tube?


Nothing at the moment. Tender will go out next year and plan is to start with counstruction in spring 2018.


----------



## rudiwien

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> What's going on with the construction of Karawanken tunnel's 2nd tube?





čarli;136571039 said:


> Nothing at the moment. Tender will go out next year and plan is to start with counstruction in spring 2018.



Well, not nothing at all - ASFINAG is duplicating a ~500m bridge and retaining wall just before the tunnel on the Austrian side, a view from the webcam:









ASFINA website (http://www.asfinag.at/unterwegs/bau...kentunnel-inklusive-bauvorbereitungsmaßnahmen) states that construction of the tunnel should start December 2017, but it also mentions "end of 2017/beginning 2018" in other places.

2022 is the final completion date. That includes renovation & upgrading works on the old tube, which takes also approx. 1 year (this also includes tunnelling connecting shafts between the two tubes for emergency evacuation).


----------



## čarli1

rudiwien said:


> Well, not nothing at all - ASFINAG is duplicating a ~500m bridge and retaining wall just before the tunnel on the Austrian side


I know that this 500m viaduct is being built from austrian side. But he was asking about 2nd tube And there are no works yet. DARS says that works will start in 2018 and both tubes will be completed until 2023:
http://www.rtvslo.si/gospodarstvo/d...anke-naj-bi-zaceli-vrtati-cez-dve-leti/384516


----------



## hofburg

A2 near Trebnje 

DSC08748 by hofburgh4, on Flickr

near Novo mesto

DSC08731 by hofburgh4, on Flickr


----------



## keber

New carriageway of A4 from in length of about 4 km has been opened few days ago.


Solčavec;137271959 said:


>


----------



## tfd543

keber said:


> New carriageway of A4 from in length of about 4 km has been opened few days ago.




Nice but dead link


----------



## keber

Construction progress on A4 (a drive from the border to Ptuj) - first part (second in the video) is already pretty advanced.


bzbox said:


>


----------



## Verso

^^ 0:03: A1 and Zg. Gruškov*l*je. :lol:


----------



## kreden

It's official: Starting tomorrow morning, the first average speed camera system in the country will start operating on the westbound carriageway of the A1 Maribor - Ljubljana between Trojane and Blagovica, through the Trojane and Podmilj tunnels. The speed limit is 100 km/h.


----------



## Verso

^^ About 5 km in length.

https://www.google.si/maps/dir/46.1.../@46.1879743,14.8531917,14z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0


----------



## Eulanthe

kreden said:


> It's official: Starting tomorrow morning, the first average speed camera system in the country will start operating on the westbound carriageway of the A1 Maribor - Ljubljana between Trojane and Blagovica, through the Trojane and Podmilj tunnels. The speed limit is 100 km/h.


I don't like average speed cameras, but in tunnels, it seems fair enough, especially given the huge amounts of transit traffic in Slovenia.


----------



## Verso

^^ The worst is A1 between Maribor (A5) and Divača (A3), other motorways aren't that bad.


----------



## rudiwien

Verso said:


> ^^ The worst is A1 between Maribor (A5) and Divača (A3), other motorways aren't that bad.



That's close to 40% of the total motorway network length, though, so not that insignficant..:lol:


----------



## Verso

^^ 202 km ÷ 601 km = 34% :cheers:


----------



## rudiwien

Verso said:


> ^^ 202 km ÷ 601 km = 34% :cheers:



I wrote specifically *motorway*, thus excluding _expressways_, and if my data is correct, we should then be around 38,1% (which I described as almost 40%)

In any way, it is still not an insignificant portion


----------



## italystf

http://ilpiccolo.gelocal.it/trieste...tudio-le-vignette-locali-1.14812249?ref=fbfpi

Aparently there are some discussions to implement cheaper vignettes valid only for some stretches of motorway or expressway.
Stretches that will possibly get this option would be:
- Markovec tunnel on H6 Koper-Izola
- LJ ringroad
- MB bypass (A1, H2 or both?)
Koper and Izola municipalities are discussing about the closure of G111 road between them, to convert it into a coastal walkway (the road runs literally few meters from the sea).


----------



## keber

^^ That about local vignettes won't happen. Those are just political wishes of two coastal mayors and some promises of our incompetent infrastructure minister.

G111 will be closed at that section that you mention as it was already planned in the past but closure date is not known yet.


----------



## italystf

keber said:


> ^^ That about local vignettes won't happen. Those are just political wishes of two coastal mayors and some promises of our incompetent infrastructure minister.
> 
> G111 will be closed at that section that you mention as it was already planned in the past but closure date is not known yet.


Wonderful. Coastal road closed and 15€ for the tunnel. Tourism to Izola, Piran and Portoroz will decline a lot.


----------



## Gyorgy

italystf said:


> Wonderful. Coastal road closed and 15€ for the tunnel. Tourism to Izola, Piran and Portoroz will decline a lot.


Quite the opposite, 3 km of shore beeing free for tourist redevelopment between two costal cities. 

Even now it's mostly empty, a waste of space.


----------



## andy276

Local vignettes almost certainly won't happen, but there are also talks about making the tunnel toll-free, like the Izola bypass is.


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> Wonderful. Coastal road closed and 15€ for the tunnel. Tourism to Izola, Piran and Portoroz will decline a lot.


You can drive this way. It's easy, just straight forward.


----------



## keber

italystf said:


> Wonderful. Coastal road closed and 15€ for the tunnel. Tourism to Izola, Piran and Portoroz will decline a lot.


It didn't decline up to now so I don't see a problem. Almost all tourists that arrive to Slovenian coast, have a vignette already now - that can be easily seen on parking lots.


----------



## Verso

^^ AADT data show that ~25% of all traffic coming from Italy at the Škofije border crossing continues on the old road instead of H5 expressway.


----------



## keber

Those are mostly locals from both side of the border. There are some tourist among them ofcourse.


----------



## Verso

Locals mostly have vignettes, and there isn't so many of them.


----------



## piotr71

it's not easy to find the old road just after border crossing. There is a need to drive through a petrol station, as far, as I remember.


----------



## italystf

piotr71 said:


> it's not easy to find the old road just after border crossing. There is a need to get in petrol station, as far, as I remember.


Exactly. The day I did a daytrip to visit Koper, Izola, Piran and Portoroz (all in a day), I bought the vignette because I figured I would have spent too much time to navigate along local roads. Unfortunately there's no a single parallel road, but you have to travel through unsigned local streets.


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> The day I did a daytrip to visit Koper, Izola, Piran and Portoroz (all in a day), *I bought the vignette* because I figured I would have spent too much time to navigate along local roads.


Good! :colgate:


----------



## celevac

Well, it's always funny to see how so many tourists travel to the Croatian coast and pass through Slovenia, quite often they travel more than 1000 km one way, and then they waste so much of their vacation time and also gas trying to avoid the vignette sticker in Slovenia... At least when it comes to Šentilj-Gruškovje, I don't know why one would drive another hour on terrible side roads just to save 15 euros... probably the same in Koper region.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, the vignette cost € 15. It takes more time to park, go in the shop, buy the vignette, attach it to the windshield than to actually drive the entire 5 minute stretch of toll road...

€ 15 for 5 minutes of expressway travel is outrageous.


----------



## Lion007

* Highway A4 Draženci – Gruškovje 4.3.2017 (12/22)*


----------



## Lion007

* Highway A4 Draženci – Gruškovje 4.3.2017 (13/22)*


----------



## Lion007

* Highway A4 Draženci – Gruškovje 4.3.2017 (14/22)*


----------



## Lion007

* Highway A4 Draženci – Gruškovje 4.3.2017 (15/22)*


----------



## Lion007

* Highway A4 Draženci – Gruškovje 4.3.2017 (16/22)*


----------



## Lion007

* Highway A4 Draženci – Gruškovje 4.3.2017 (17/22)*


----------



## Lion007

* Highway A4 Draženci – Gruškovje 4.3.2017 (18/22)*


----------



## Lion007

* Highway A4 Draženci – Gruškovje 4.3.2017 (19/22)*


----------



## Lion007

* Highway A4 Draženci – Gruškovje 4.3.2017 (20/22)*


----------



## Lion007

* Highway A4 Draženci – Gruškovje 4.3.2017 (21/22)*


----------



## Lion007

* Highway A4 Draženci – Gruškovje 4.3.2017 (22/22)*


----------



## chris-dmf

*Highway A4 Draženci – Gruškovje*

Thank You very much for your fine pics 
Hope there some new sections opend in june


----------



## keber

x-type said:


> quite a part of that section has third lane for slow vehicles already, that is probably the reason.


More tender documentation has become available today and it is clear that hard shoulder will be 4.0 m wide on the whole renovated section, even 650 m long Ravbarkomanda viaduct will be widened. Hardshoulder will have the same asphalt as driving lanes. It appears that Dars is slowly preparing 6 lanes of traffic up to Postojna but without real widening (except from Ljubljana to Vrhnika, where real 6 lanes with hard shoulder will be done).


----------



## italystf

*Permanent closure of G-111 Koper-Izola*

Starting from 20th March 2017, the coastal road between Koper and Izola (G-111) will be closed to traffic permanently. Traffic will be rerouted through the new Markovec tunnel (H6 expressway). Vignette won't be required anymore for drivers using just the tunnel.
The reason of the closure is that the road runs just few meters from the shoreline, not allowing the use of that section of coast for recreational purposes.

In red the section that will be closed:









http://www.rtvslo.si/radiocapodistria/articolo/5665


----------



## Palance

Lion007 said:


>


Road numbers of regional roads? The first time I see those on Slovene road sings.


----------



## kreden

They have been appearing on motorway exit signage in the past couple of years.


----------



## threo2k

wasnt this motorway supposed to be finished many years ago? I drove this way at year 2005 and they were building then..


----------



## Verso

^^ The only motorway in that area that was under construction in 2005 was Maribor bypass.


----------



## Gedeon

threo2k said:


> wasnt this motorway supposed to be finished many years ago? I drove this way at year 2005 and they were building then..





Verso said:


> ^^ The only motorway in that area that was under construction in 2005 was Maribor bypass.


Macelj-Krapina (Croatian side of this motorway) was being built at that time.


----------



## italystf

Why does Slovenia has regional roads if Slovenian regions are only statistical subdivisions, not administrative?


----------



## andy276

They're not regional in the sense that they're managed by regions, it just means that they have regional significance (as opposed to main roads, which have national significance, and local roads).


----------



## kreden

andy276 said:


> They're not regional in the sense that they're managed by regions, it just means that they have regional significance (as opposed to main roads, which have national significance, and local roads).


Exactly. Main roads have numbers x to 1xx, while regional roads are numbered 2xx to 9xx and both categories are managed by DRSI, the national infrastructure agency.


----------



## Verso

It's been 10 years since I created this thread. :banana:

:dance:

Around 150 km of motorways and 4-lane expressways have been built since then. :cheers:


----------



## Zagor666

Verso said:


> It's been 10 years since I created this thread. :banana:
> 
> :dance:
> 
> Around 150 km of motorways and 4-lane expressways have been built since then. :cheers:


----------



## keber

Ministry of infrastructure has plans to limit general speed on motorways in vicinity of Ljubljana, Maribor, Kranj and Celje to 110 km/h in winter time, from 1.11. to 31.3.
Reason for this idiotic proposal is limiting pollution in those cities. Of course there are more effective solutions to that (like limits for old vehicles entering cities or removing smoking diesels from traffic) but politics are politics ...


----------



## Gyorgy

Little more than 1/3 of Ljubljana ring is actually above 110 km/h at the moment


----------



## Puležan

^^Is it even possible to maintain speeds above 110 on Ljubljana ring? There's a lot of exits and the traffic is dense, with big truck share.


----------



## Verso

^ It's possible in the overtaking lane, especially on the southern bypass.


----------



## keber

Gyorgy said:


> Little more than 1/3 of Ljubljana ring is actually above 110 km/h at the moment


Sections to Domžale, Grosuplje and Vrhnika would be affected too (this is not sure yet).
And almost straight section of A2 north and east of Kranj in a forest that does not have such dense traffic will be affected too.


----------



## Puležan

Such things could divert people from using motorways. I mean, you cannot legally drive faster than 110 and you have to pay toll, while on other roads (highways/state roads/magistrale) you can drive 90 without paying toll and with lower fuel consumption.

In Croatia they have also lowered speed limit on large sections of A1 (in Lika) and A3 to 120 for no obvious reason and they decided to raise tolls. Now you can legally drive 130 only on A1 Zagreb-Bosiljevo and in Dalmatia, half of the length of A2 and A4, on A5 and most of A11. All others are set to 100-110.


----------



## Negjana

Fuel consumption is a really bad argument for keeping 130 kph instead of 110.....


----------



## Puležan

Negjana said:


> Fuel consumption is a really bad argument for keeping 130 kph instead of 110.....


I agree. But many people think that way. Personally, I always choose driving on motorways because it's safer, faster and more comfortable. "Old" roads are on my itinerary when I'm alone and have some time to enjoy driving and scenery


----------



## Verso

The coastal road between Koper and Izola is now closed, and you don't need a vignette for H6 any more.









http://www.rtvslo.si/lokalne-novice/foto-obalna-cesta-se-dokoncno-poslavlja-od-motornega-prometa/417734


----------



## kreden

Verso said:


> The coastal road between Koper and Izola is now closed, and you don't need a vignette for H6 any more.


*between Koper-Semedela and Izola junctions. Well, effectively from Koper-Semedela to the current terminus in Izola.


----------



## Verso

Interesting summer photo of G1-11 Koper-Dragonja (HR):









http://www.delo.si/novice/slovenija/ceste-do-lucije-ne-bo-se-najmanj-deset-let.html


----------



## Attus

^^Stop and go uphill may be very unpleasant.


----------



## italystf

http://www.triesteprima.it/cronaca/chiusura-capodistria-isola-costa-21-marzo-2017.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Attus said:


> ^^Stop and go uphill may be very unpleasant.


It's probably not very good for the clutch, especially when towing a caravan.


----------



## rudiwien

Verso said:


> The coastal road between Koper and Izola is now closed, and you don't need a vignette for H6 any more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.rtvslo.si/lokalne-novice/foto-obalna-cesta-se-dokoncno-poslavlja-od-motornega-prometa/417734



Are there any concrete plans of a redevelopment of the old road resp. the coast, e.g. narrowing the road, making it a one-lane only, and dedicate the extra space to recreation areas, or something else? Or will it just stay like this?


----------



## keber

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's probably not very good for the clutch, especially when towing a caravan.


Most modern cars now have driving assists and there is also an anutomatic transmission.

@coastal road: at first they will convert old road to road for intervention vehicles and wide bicycle path (old bicycle/pedestrian path by the sea will now be pedestrian only. Then slowly new developments will get constructed which are not yet finalized.


----------



## Gyorgy

rudiwien said:


> Are there any concrete plans of a redevelopment of the old road resp. the coast, e.g. narrowing the road, making it a one-lane only, and dedicate the extra space to recreation areas, or something else? Or will it just stay like this?


Only basic ideas, it will take few more year(s) to develope and choose the final plan.


----------



## Verso

Attus said:


> ^^Stop and go uphill may be very unpleasant.


Maybe, but the photo is great.



rudiwien said:


> Are there any concrete plans of a redevelopment of the old road resp. the coast, e.g. narrowing the road, making it a one-lane only, and dedicate the extra space to recreation areas, or something else? Or will it just stay like this?











http://www.delo.si/novice/slovenija/trije-otoki-za-vec-turizma.html

:lol:


----------



## italystf

^^ The European Dubai :lol:

Is vignette now required for the short part of H6 between Koper-centre and Koper-west?
Is road G-111 re-routed through Kvedrova cesta?


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> Is vignette now required for the short part of H6 between Koper-centre and Koper-west?


Yes, it is.



italystf said:


> Is road G-111 re-routed through Kvedrova cesta?


I doubt. That road isn't meant to be a main road (G), otherwise we'd still need vignettes on H6 between Koper and Izola.


----------



## Verso

From today it's forbidden for trucks weighing over 7.5 t to drive between Maribor and Koper/Italy on the northern and western Ljubljana bypass at night (22h–6h), instead they must use the eastern and southern bypass. Fine for not obeying this is €160.


am982 said:


>


----------



## italystf

^^ From that sign it looks like that Koper Capodistria is in Italy. :lol:


----------



## Verso

Country ovals are usually placed right of foreign cities, not under them.


----------



## x-type

are there speed cameras at ex-toll stations? today i have noticed that everyone is doing eraly 60 there. not 70, really 60.


----------



## italystf

Two videos of the Koper-Izola coastal road after the closure. The first one is from March 30, when they were still completing the bicycle lane, the second one is from April 2, after works have been completed.


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> are there speed cameras at ex-toll stations? today i have noticed that everyone is doing eraly 60 there. not 70, really 60.


No, there aren't, and people usually drive there around 70 and up to 100 km/h.


----------



## keber

Not necesarily, on Kozina toll station there is a speed camera box (probably empty but you never know) so everyone drive there 60. There was also a box not long ago on Torovo toll station. Most people know where are those boxes so they drive accordingly. There are no such boxes on Log, Dob or Kompolje station so most drive between 80 and 100 km/h.


----------



## x-type

Well I usually make 70-80,but yesterday was obviously the day when everyone decided to make 60. I passed 4 barriers twice and it was the same each of 8 times (Drnovo, Bič, Dob, Videž)


----------



## keber

It happens, about 1/2-1/3 of people strictly obey speed limits around those barriers. You had luck and that happened on all four barriers.


----------



## Verso

http://www.rtvslo.si/slovenija/h3-si-ponoci-ne-bo-oddahnila-od-prav-vseh-tovornjakov-ukrep-velja-le-za-tranzit/418960


----------



## Solčavec




----------



## tfd543

The Schengen code has been amended and came into effect yesterday, hence the long queues.


----------



## x-type

i cannot think what will happen in July and August if they don't stop with that crap


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The traffic jam will then probably start north of Maribor... A Spielfeld - Gruškovje traffic jam. Previously on the busiest days the traffic jam already started between Slivnica and Ptuj.


----------



## Verso

There are actually two traffic jams between Maribor and the border. The first one is at the end of the motorway by Ptuj, and the second one at the border. There usually isn't a continuous queue between Ptuj and the border, I've always seen moving vehicles after Ptuj on traffic cameras.


----------



## x-type

interesting thing, there were no such jams even before 2013 (peak weekends excluded)


----------



## keber

Bled in summer is always busy. There is always parking space outside weekends at Bled railway station (on the hill opposite the lake).


----------



## Solčavec

15 km deadlock of trucks on the toll station Dragotnici on A5 yesterday. 

https://sobotainfo.com/novica/lokalno/veckilometrski-zastoj-na-pomurski-avtocesti/401617


----------



## Solčavec




----------



## SRC_100

^^
What`s the ****?!??!??!?! :uh: :eek2:


----------



## hofburg

Yes the sound barrier was on fire on the western Ljuljana bypass.


----------



## chris-dmf

*Gruškovje - Ptuj , 11.06.2017*

11.06.2017


----------



## celevac

chris-dmf said:


> 11.06.2017


Good! Looks like they will open the northern section on time in November!?


----------



## Verso

Looks like the Mangart road is open again, but after 5 years it's still not open entirely. Most people just ignore it though and drive to the top (2,055 m), because it's possible.









http://www.rtvslo.si/lokalne-novice/mangartska-cesta-ze-pet-let-ni-prevozna-do-vrha/425986


----------



## cinxxx

^^How long is the part left unopened (what altitude)?
Is the danger on the road or also walking around the top of it?

Is anyone enforcing this?


----------



## Verso

It's ~1 km before the end of the road (I don't know about the altitude). Danger is on the road (probably not so dangerous), but not at the top. And I don't think anyone enforces the prohibition.


----------



## Gyorgy

cinxxx said:


> ^^How long is the part left unopened (what altitude)?
> Is the danger on the road or also walking around the top of it?
> 
> Is anyone enforcing this?


Walking this road would be more dangerous than driving  

Google street view went past it

And here is the problem why the road is closed. This part will be closed forever, they are going to build a new road with a different route.


----------



## cinxxx

By walking I meant when you would already be on the top, around the border with Italy...

https://goo.gl/maps/tdSDrzvk9Rp


----------



## Gyorgy

^^ This photo was actually taken in Italy, there is a border stone around 200 m back. The only danger is, don't walk into the abyss.


----------



## cinxxx

Gyorgy said:


> ^^ This photo was actually taken in Italy, there is a border stone around 200 m back. The only danger is, don't walk into the abyss.


I know :lol:
I meant the area where you can park the car and just wonder around for the beautiful views


----------



## Gyorgy

Cars are parked all along on top. Lots of improvisation and squeezing during season peaks. But if you don't find a suitable place in the first try, it's one way circular road and you can try again. 

The biggest problem is actually driving up to this one way road, if someone comes in other direction. It's better to drive behind someone, so he/she is the first to think how to get pass and make space.


----------



## Verso

cinxxx said:


> By walking I meant when you would already be on the top, around the border with Italy...
> 
> https://goo.gl/maps/tdSDrzvk9Rp


Try not to fall into Italy. :lol:


----------



## chris-dmf

Drone flight on new A4


----------



## Verso

Interesting, I thought we only had signs saying Karlovac, but now I see we also have signs saying Karlov*e*c. I wonder, if there're any signs saying Karlovec/Karlovac. :lol:


----------



## Verso

Someone ran over 3 bear cubs  on A1 Ljubljana–Maribor by Vransko and their mother is probably still somewhere close, so speed limit is 80 km/h until further notice.


----------



## Verso

^^ The mother was run over tonight on A1 as well.


----------



## tfd543

celevac said:


> I was REALLY SURPRISED today to see A4 between Lancova vas and Draženci already fully opened to traffic with 130 km/h towards Maribor! One month earlier than planned! Podlehnik-Lancova vas is also almost finished, just some noise barriers missing, but should be ready in 1-2 weeks !! Driving south towards Croatia, Draženci-Podlehnik was also in a very advanced state. It should be a matter of days, really. Traffic is already flowing on each respective side, one lane only. It was a pleasure to drive on the finished motorway section today!
> 
> Podlehnik-Gruškovje: traffic going on the western part of the motorway now, the eastern lanes (towards Maribor) are being constructed. Only near the border around the tunnel the works are not really advanced yet. Perhaps they will finish all the way to Zakl exit already before the 2018 tourist season?


The Slovenes are taking it seriously . Any pics mate ?


----------



## keber

Contractor has a plan to open whole motorway up to border before 2018 tourist season (about 6 month ahead of schedule). If the winter won't be very cold or snowy or there won't be any other surprises then they might succeed.


----------



## italystf

Today I drove on some roads around Goriška region. Some signs pointing to H4 are blue (correct, new), while other are green (obsolete). I didn't drive on H4 itself, as it would have required the vignette.


----------



## chris-dmf

*Highway A4 Draženci – Gruškovje*

Hopefully the DARS will soon install new webcams at the new exits on the A4


----------



## celevac

tfd543 said:


> The Slovenes are taking it seriously . Any pics mate ?


Sorry, not this time. I was driving myself and was in a hurry. Might be driving there again soon, will try to film the drive.


----------



## Verso

https://www.vecer.com/avtocestni-odsek-do-podlehnika-koncan-odprt-bo-novembra-6326686


----------



## Verso

Interchange Šmarje-Sap on A2 SE of Ljubljana is now fully open.









http://www.rtvslo.si/lokalne-novice/foto-po-25-letih-avtocestni-prikljucek-smarje-sap-uradno-odprt/435032


----------



## hofburg

From now on the vehicles can move to the shoulder lane too in the case of a traffic jam to form the emergency lane in the middle. (Until now they had to move to the far left/right but not crossing the shoulder line)

http://www.rtvslo.si/slovenija/v-primeru-nesrece-lahko-vozniki-zapeljejo-na-odstavni-pas-avtoceste/435188


----------



## celevac

Today I filmed the A4 Draženci - Gruškovje for you (video is in 2x speed) so you can see how far the works have progressed. The video shows the direction towards south (border). On the other side, as I've mentioned last weekend, Lancova vas - Draženci is already opened for traffic with 130km/h limit. Enjoy.


----------



## tfd543

celevac said:


> Today I filmed the A4 Draženci - Gruškovje for you (video is in 2x speed) so you can see how far the works have progressed. The video shows the direction towards south (border). On the other side, as I've mentioned last weekend, Lancova vas - Draženci is already opened for traffic with 130km/h limit. Enjoy.


MMP Gruskovje ? :nuts::nuts: Why not just a border crossing symbol instead.


----------



## celevac

tfd543 said:


> MMP Gruskovje ? :nuts::nuts: Why not just a border crossing symbol instead.


Yes, very strange. Another thing I did not like was that it says: next gas station 14 km (from the Podlehnik station under construction). There is no gas station until Sveti Križ Začretje, the place in 14 km is probably the parking lot between Macelj and Đurmanec.


----------



## x-type

hofburg said:


> From now on the vehicles can move to the shoulder lane too in the case of a traffic jam to form the emergency lane in the middle. (Until now they had to move to the far left/right but not crossing the shoulder line)
> 
> http://www.rtvslo.si/slovenija/v-pr...ki-zapeljejo-na-odstavni-pas-avtoceste/435188


i really don't like that rule. imo it is better to form emergency lane in the middle between 2 lanes, and to leave shoulder lane free. somehow comes much more natural not to touch shoulder in any case.


----------



## keber

It is difficult to do on just 2 lanes + shoulder, there is not enough width.


----------



## x-type

keber said:


> It is difficult to do on just 2 lanes + shoulder, there is not enough width.


3,75+3,75=7,50. truck is 2,50 wide, car is 2,00 wide. so 3 metres are left. thus, at the left side cars can steal additional 0,50. more than enough not only for any emergency vehicles, but also for proper semitrailers.


----------



## kreden

tfd543 said:


> MMP Gruskovje ? :nuts::nuts: Why not just a border crossing symbol instead.


That sign has been there since they finished the previous A4 section. It doesn't look right to me, I don't think border crossings are signed as destinations anywhere else on the motorway network.



x-type said:


> 3,75+3,75=7,50. truck is 2,50 wide, car is 2,00 wide. so 3 metres are left. thus, at the left side cars can steal additional 0,50. more than enough not only for any emergency vehicles, but also for proper semitrailers.


In theory. In practice, it was very tight unless trucks in the right lane were partially on the shoulder.


----------



## keber

Larger cars have already 2,20 m between mirror edges or even more. Firemen trucks are also proper trucks with 2,50 m width. And you need at least half a meter on every side for manoeuvring. There are enough videos on internet that show you what happens in practice, an example:




When rescuing, not minutes, but seconds are important.


----------



## Verso

I would use the hard shoulder only if an emergency vehicle were actually coming, not otherwise.


----------



## hofburg

When they are coming is usually already too late to move. How can a truck move to the right when all the vehicles are already stopped and stacked together?


----------



## andy276

I do see this as the main problem with this rule. If the traffic is still moving at least intermittently, it would be weird and possibly illegal to use the hard shoulder (would you move onto and off the hard shoulder every few seconds?), but when the traffic does come to a complete halt it may be too late to move there.


----------



## stickedy

I understand that you can use the hard shoulder when necessary, not have to. So it should not be a problem at all. It's more adjusting law to the reality


----------



## keber

Tender was published today for construction of second Karavanke tunnel tube. It is planned that construction with renovation of existing tube will take 5 years.


----------



## smokiboy

Is this a joint Slovene-Austrian tender?


----------



## x-type

Shenkey said:


> In Croatia you pay 8€ to drive 50km in Istria. Do you see me complaining all the time?


tunnel toll included. 
in Slovenia you pay 22,20€ for similar thing from Ljubljana to Villach.


----------



## keber

smokiboy said:


> Is this a joint Slovene-Austrian tender?


No, every country has its own tender.


----------



## Slovenia_

I know and understand that foreigns driver are mad when they have to pay our vignette.

But you have to understand Slovenia also, we are one of the most transit countries in Europe if not the most one. 

Around 80% cars with foreign plate are pure transit throught Slovenia. So the money they spend on Vignette is the only money they leave in Slovenia. So i think this is one of the reasons Vignettes are more expensive.

If 50% of this car were our turist, i would be the first one to agree that vignettes should cost like in Austria, because they would leave more money in Slovenia on other things.


----------



## smokiboy

Is this a joint Slovene-Austrian tender?



keber said:


> No, every country has its own tender.


But what does that mean? Is not the tunnel and the future one owned 50-50 by Slovenia and Austria? And if so, I would assume that each country will pay half for the construction costs.


----------



## stickedy

smokiboy said:


> But what does that mean? Is not the tunnel and the future one owned 50-50 by Slovenia and Austria? And if so, I would assume that each country will pay half for the construction costs.


No, the tunnel was completly built by Austria and is now operated and managed by ASFINAG.


----------



## smokiboy

I thought Karavanke tunnel was built in Yugoslav times, and jointly financed with Austria.

So the first tunnel is owned by Austria, and the second is to be owned by Slovenia?


----------



## Karaya

What are you guys talking about? Each country payed their part of the tunnel - up to the border and slovenian company SCT was the main contractor on the Slovenian side. The same model will be used for the second tube. The tunnel is and will be managed by DARS and ASFINAG and they switch rolles/responsibilities every month.


----------



## Verso

stickedy said:


> No, the tunnel was completly built by Austria and is now operated and managed by ASFINAG.


You're talking nonsense. The tunnel was built by both countries and is managed by both, Dars and Asfinag.


----------



## Slovenia_

stickedy said:


> No, the tunnel was completly built by Austria and is now operated and managed by ASFINAG.


As Verso said tunnel was built and is operated from both countries. Slovenian and austrian one.

That's why on one side you pay toll to Asfinag (direction Ljubljana) and on the other side (direction Villach) you pay toll to DARS.


----------



## Slovenia_

stickedy said:


> No, the tunnel was completly built by Austria and is now operated and managed by ASFINAG.


Here you have a movie about buidling it :cheers:


----------



## kreden

In light of the recent vignette discussion, here's a chart illustrating just how significant the 2008-2009 drop in road deaths was. The data is only for the Jan 1 - Dec 17 period of each year, but it's representative enough. On a side note, 2017 is shaping up to be one of the safest years on record after two years of backsliding.










source: http://www.varna-pot.si/si/335/1913/STATISTIKA_PROMETNE_VARNOSTI.aspx


----------



## 8166UY

That's quite the difference. Any clear reason why the steep decline? Change of habits? More alcohol checks? Newer cars? Saver roads? Sure it is a combination, but clearly there has been a large intervention by the government.


----------



## čarli1

8166UY said:


> That's quite the difference. Any clear reason why the steep decline? Change of habits? More alcohol checks? Newer cars? Saver roads? Sure it is a combination, but clearly there has been a large intervention by the government.


He already answered you when he wrote about vignette and drop in year 2008-2009. Vignette were introduced 1.7. 2008


----------



## keber

There were also a lot of motorway and expressway openings between 2008 and 2010 (around 150 km), that is completion of A5, H4 and A2 (except 3 km long section, opened in 2011):
https://www.dars.si/Dokumenti/About...amme/Built_motorways_and_expressways_286.aspx

We could say that 2 years after vignette introduction motorway cross was finished. Both factors are the main reason for that significant road death number. Police checks and better cars were not important reason.


----------



## kreden

Indeed, both factors likely caused the significant drop. Many settlements and main roads were relieved of traffic following the completion of missing motorway sections, while other regional roads saw large declines in traffic following the introduction of vignettes, which diverted traffic to safer parallel motorways.


----------



## Shenkey

Do not forget the financial crisis which beat us hard.

The results of the economic improvement you can see in 2015, 2016, while only now people(and the state) have enough money to think about buying new cars and long term investments.


----------



## keber

Currently there is around 20 km long traffic jam before Obrežje border crossing.
That is probably by far the longest traffic jam on A2 as I remember it.


----------



## tfd543

keber said:


> Currently there is around 20 km long traffic jam before Obrežje border crossing.
> That is probably by far the longest traffic jam on A2 as I remember it.


Christmas traffic, weather, accident ?


----------



## roaddor

^^
Thanks, this is something else. Something that I expected to be confirmed by a Slovenian, just wasn't sure about the exact weight.

PS: No need to translate the text below the sign.


----------



## Slovenia_

New info sign about toll in Slovenia on borders (left one) are already standing on borders. Start in 6 days. :cheers:


----------



## Slovenia_

From today on just E-toll in Slovenia. :cheers:

http://www.rtvslo.si/radio-si/news/electronic-tolling-system-for-cargo-vehicles-and-buses-launched-today/450601

Let's see what will happened on Tuesday, when trucks will be allowed to drive again.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Unfortunately it is not compatible with toll systems of other countries. You can't use a foreign transponder in Slovenia and you can't use the DarsGo transponder in other countries. This means yet another transponder on the wind shield...


----------



## Uksi

The unit is very small compared to the others though...


----------



## keber

It is compatible with EETS - European Electronic Toll Service
https://www.dars.si/Dokumenti/Toll/EETS_domain_statement_1076.aspx?print=1
That means it will be interoperable when this system will start operating EU wide (who knows when ....), Also it is being supported with newer toll tags like Vialtis telepass
http://www.vialtis.com/en/news/the-future-is-now-1-toll-device-for-7-countries


----------



## g.spinoza

ChrisZwolle said:


> Unfortunately it is not compatible with toll systems of other countries. You can't use a foreign transponder in Slovenia and you can't use the DarsGo transponder in other countries. This means yet another transponder on the wind shield...


Transponders aren't the biggest problem in this windscreen.


----------



## Solčavec

H4-reconstruction, together 25 km, until 2020.:sleepy:


----------



## italystf

^^ Will it become a full-standards motorway?


----------



## keber

No, it is just repavement and new higher barriers.


----------



## bogdymol

Seems quite long 2 years just for that. But then I remember how Germany does these things...

I really enjoyed driving on H4 compared to A4-Italy.


----------



## keber

Road quality deteriorated pretty rapidly and renovation projects were not made early enough. There is also a limit how much time a section can be closed for a time because of traffic as there is only 1+1 layout in time of construction. And money - there are many more sections in Slovenia that are in need of complete renovations or reconstructions.


----------



## Verso

This expressway really needs repavement badly.


----------



## Verso

Northern Ljubljana bypass (H3) shortly after opening in early 1980s:


umilave1 said:


>


----------



## smokiboy

Look very modern, like it was built today. Are yellow strips still used today?


----------



## stickedy

No, Slovenia changed to white


----------



## Uppsala

smokiboy said:


> Look very modern, like it was built today. Are yellow strips still used today?



The lights at that motorway was quite modern 1980 but now that lights look quite old. That lights look like 1960s and 1970s. Some motorways in Sweden had similar lights at that time too


----------



## keber

Now all lights on that section are LED lights (section on photo above was renovated 6 years ago - I wanted to write 3 years ago, but time really flies ...). 
Also there is a great tendency to replace all existing lighting to LED as LED lights become cheap and very effective, affordable even for local communities and they can repay itself in just 5 to 10 years.
In Ljubljana they are beginning to mass replace even existing lights that were installed just 5-7 years ago.


----------



## italystf

Is it possible to replace old-fashioned bulbs with LED bulbs without replacing the whole lamp? For domestic use there are LED bulbs that have the same screw of old bulbs, is it the same for street lighting?


----------



## Gedeon

italystf said:


> Is it possible to replace old-fashioned bulbs with LED bulbs without replacing the whole lamp? For domestic use there are LED bulbs that have the same screw of old bulbs, is it the same for street lighting?


Not really. High pressure sodium lamps (the type most used in the last few decades) have completely different "drivers" than those that LED lamps require. And the whole "lamp head" is usually made as one unit, that directly plugs into mains.


----------



## chris-dmf

celevac said:


> Wasn't the remaining part of A4 supposed to be opened in summer 2018, last year I heard "before the tourist season"? How advanced is the construction there at the moment?



The road in the direction of Croatia will be opened in the next few days. The demolition and construction of Maribor direction can only begin once the traffic is running on it.



From the Slovenian Forum



Solčavec;150155273 said:


> 3.7.2018.


----------



## Slovenia_

There are some news, that after opening of new highway till border, all the cars travelling in direction of Croatian will need vignette. So you will not be able to cross border crossing Gruškovje/Macelj without Vignette. You will have to use other border crossing.


----------



## Verso

Former toll station Torovo on A2 Ljubljana-Kranj. Speed limit 130 km/h. :cheers:









https://twitter.com/DARS_SI


----------



## roaddor

What is the height of these jerseys and are they frequently used on Slovenian motorways?


----------



## ntom

^^ I learned something new today, the Americans have named the lane separator barriers:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_barrier

Judging by those BMW SUVs they look to be at least 1.4 metres tall.


----------



## Eulanthe

Slovenia_ said:


> There are some news, that after opening of new highway till border, all the cars travelling in direction of Croatian will need vignette. So you will not be able to cross border crossing Gruškovje/Macelj without Vignette. You will have to use other border crossing.


Has there been any update on this? It seems ridiculous, especially as the parallel road will exist all the way to Gruškovje anyway.

There's a news article here about it - https://novice.svet24.si/clanek/nov...67d55/ob-prihodu-iz-hrvaske-tudi-brez-vinjete.


----------



## kreden

Eulanthe said:


> Has there been any update on this? It seems ridiculous, especially as the parallel road will exist all the way to Gruškovje anyway.


The parallel road will exist, but you can only access it (through a barely legal manoeuvre) from the border crossing coming from Croatia, there is no access in the other direction. The old border crossing would have to be reopened for proper vignette-free access, but that seems unlikely as it is completely unsuitable for Schengen controls and would require significant investment to bring it up to standard.


----------



## tfd543

How is going with A4 to Gruskovje. Can we expect it to open already in Fall ?


----------



## Eulanthe

kreden said:


> The parallel road will exist, but you can only access it (through a barely legal manoeuvre) from the border crossing coming from Croatia, there is no access in the other direction.


There's no reason why they couldn't create access, or just make it vignette-free from the last junction in Slovenia to avoid any hassle. 



> The old border crossing would have to be reopened for proper vignette-free access, but that seems unlikely as it is completely unsuitable for Schengen controls and would require significant investment to bring it up to standard.


I'm not sure it would need so much investment. It's a typical Croatian crossing, so it would only need the computer equipment installed for Schengen checks, nothing more. Most of the technical infrastructure are still in place (barriers, lights, etc) there, so it's not that big an obstacle. But still, it would make much more sense simply to build the access ramp onto the A4 just before Gruskovje.


----------



## celevac

What would make even more sense is to finally agree on a joint border crossing of both countries at one of the two facilities. This works well in other places such as Ličko Petrovo Selo/Izačić (HR/BIH - outside border of the EU)


----------



## x-type

celevac said:


> What would make even more sense is to finally agree on a joint border crossing of both countries at one of the two facilities. This works well in other places such as Ličko Petrovo Selo/Izačić (HR/BIH - outside border of the EU)


But it didn't work at Bregana/Obrežje, so now we again have 2 checks there.


----------



## celevac

x-type said:


> But it didn't work at Bregana/Obrežje, so now we again have 2 checks there.



You are right in this case. Maybe it was just not handled correctly. 

I just doubt that Croatia will enter Schengen anytime soon, with the EU isolating itself more and more these days. 

Croatia entering Schengen would make things a lot better, especially in the summer months. Now with the upcoming extension of the 1x1 section on the Croatian side of the border on A2 between Đurmanec and Krapina the motorway between Zagreb and Maribor will be finished in full profile soon. 

https://www.jutarnji.hr/vijesti/hrv...ionice-autoputa-zbogom-guzvama-ljeti/7637826/

The only bottleneck will be the toll station and A2 unfortunately is not part of HAC's electronic ENC system, so everybody will be stuck in traffic.

Opening up a non-motorway border crossing at Macelj at least in the tourist season would be a good way to reduce waiting times and handle the traffic a bit better (redirect some cars to the old state road).


----------



## kreden

Eulanthe said:


> There's no reason why they couldn't create access, or just make it vignette-free from the last junction in Slovenia to avoid any hassle.
> 
> I'm not sure it would need so much investment. It's a typical Croatian crossing, so it would only need the computer equipment installed for Schengen checks, nothing more. Most of the technical infrastructure are still in place (barriers, lights, etc) there, so it's not that big an obstacle. But still, it would make much more sense simply to build the access ramp onto the A4 just before Gruskovje.


The point is that accommodating non-vignette traffic would require some investment and therefore funding. It would have to be paid either by the Slovenian taxpayer or by Dars, which gets its revenue exclusively from tolling. Considering it would effectively serve only foreign transit traffic avoiding the vignette, neither the state nor Dars have any incentive to do anything about it.


----------



## Eulanthe

celevac said:


> What would make even more sense is to finally agree on a joint border crossing of both countries at one of the two facilities. This works well in other places such as Ličko Petrovo Selo/Izačić (HR/BIH - outside border of the EU)


What would actually make sense would be to use both facilities - Macelj for SLO exit/HR entry and Gruskovje for SLO entry/HR exit. But part of the problem is that they didn't cooperate when building the facilities, so it would mean 9 lanes on entry to Macelj and only 5 on entry to Gruskovje if the current road layout is maintained. 

One technical solution to improve that would be to demolish the 'duty free' shop at Gruskovje and run the HR direction traffic through the current truck border crossing. That would leave 7 lanes in the HR->SLO direction, while the SLO->HR direction would have 10-11 lanes if the traffic heading to Gruskovje was directed through the truck crossing at Macelj. 

What would also make a considerable amount of sense would be to use the old Customs control booths at Gruskovje to sell transit vignettes for the Gruskovje-Sentlj section - both Sentlj and Gruskovje have the infrastructure needed, and a flat 7.50 Euro toll valid only for one day in one direction would probably eliminate all the vignette-avoidance anyway.


----------



## tfd543

You are forgetting something guys.. Slovenia needs to issue electronic vignettes asap !! year of 2018, EU and schengen country with paper vignettes destroying our forests ?? Not only should it be payable through web but also with smart phones.


----------



## g.spinoza

tfd543 said:


> You are forgetting something guys.. Slovenia needs to issue electronic vignettes asap !! year of 2018, EU and schengen country with paper vignettes destroying our forests ?? Not only should it be payable through web but also with smart phones.


Yes, I think the Amazon forest is being cut for the enormous demand of Slovenian vignettes.


----------



## x-type

tfd543 said:


> You are forgetting something guys.. Slovenia needs to issue electronic vignettes asap !! year of 2018, EU and schengen country with paper vignettes destroying our forests ?? Not only should it be payable through web but also with smart phones.


Current Slovenian (as well as Austrian, Czech, Swiss etc.) vignettes are made in PE or PVC. So not much in common with deforestation.


----------



## Shenkey

tfd543 said:


> You are forgetting something guys.. Slovenia needs to issue electronic vignettes asap !! year of 2018, EU and schengen country with paper vignettes destroying our forests ?? Not only should it be payable through web but also with smart phones.


Contribute by yourself.

Do not buy them and pay the fine.


----------



## tfd543

Its just outdated implementation but you know, i respect that. I didnt get why the electronic sticker was introduced for trucks but not for smaller vechicles? I mean why not just update in full scale. Maybe its a test period, we'll see.


----------



## tfd543

*[SLO] Slovenia | road infrastructure • Slovenske avtoceste*



x-type said:


> Current Slovenian (as well as Austrian, Czech, Swiss etc.) vignettes are made in PE or PVC. So not much in common with deforestation.



Fair enough.
Austria got electronic vignettes in 2018.


----------



## tfd543

g.spinoza said:


> Yes, I think the Amazon forest is being cut for the enormous demand of Slovenian vignettes.




Haha well maybe a permille.


----------



## yohaniv

I'll just leave an info to chew right here. Last year the second most profitable company in Slovenia vas DARS (state owned highway company) with 141mio€ clean aftertax profit. They still have 2,5 bio debt, tho @ 40 mio/y interests.


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## Gyorgy

^^ that's net profit.


----------



## celevac

g.spinoza said:


> Yes, I think the Amazon forest is being cut for the enormous demand of Slovenian vignettes.



Yes, enormous amounts of polyethylene trees are cut every day ! :lol:


----------



## Verso

tfd543 said:


> How is going with A4 to Gruskovje. Can we expect it to open already in Fall ?


Yes, next month.


----------



## yohaniv

Gyorgy said:


> ^^ that's net profit.


I realize that. That is good. I think. But, but, they are single 2nd profitable economic entity in country (1st and 3rd are pharmaceutical).


----------



## renco

Verso said:


> Yes, next month.


Great,finally.


----------



## chris-dmf

I don't have any current reports about the opening, but I don't expect a opening of all four lanes before October. The first two lanes of the last section towards Croatia have only just been opened. The construction of the lanes of the last piece towards Maribor has only just begun.


----------



## MichiH

Turkish company has been selected to build Slovenian section of 2nd tube for Karavanke tunnel

Cheapest out of 9 bids. 89.3 million €. Deadline for complaints end August 16. Construction period: 5 years.


----------



## chris-dmf

https://mobile.twitter.com/DARS_SI/status/1027848306926469120


This weekend is also busy road connection to Gruškovje. The traffic has already been arranged for 3 weeks, two kilometers in the newly built halfway section of the highway from Podlehnik, to the border crossing, while the other half will be finished in October 2018 and the Podravina AC between MB and Gruškovje will be completely completed. [Translated by google]


----------



## Verso

So in October.


----------



## MichiH

chris-dmf said:


> https://mobile.twitter.com/DARS_SI/status/1027848306926469120
> 
> This weekend is also busy road connection to Gruškovje. The traffic has already been arranged for 3 weeks, two kilometers in the newly built halfway section of the highway from Podlehnik, to the border crossing, while *the other half will be finished in October 2018* and the Podravina AC between MB and Gruškovje *will be completely completed*. [Translated by google]


Does it means that it should be 2x2 from October?


----------



## chris-dmf

Yes, the A4 SLO is then completed.


[OT] The traffic jam during summertime thus shifts to the border and the toll station. The still single-lane pieces near Krapina could also become bigger traffic jam zones.


----------



## MichiH

When do "summertime" jams end? Are jams still likely in Mid September?

(I plan to satisfy Verso by eliminating the green spot in my signature and add more country codes)


----------



## tfd543

Hmm still great to have 2x2 despite shifting. The toll stations, cant they do something temporary and upgrade it? Is it just ticket collection ?


----------



## chris-dmf

MichiH said:


> When do "summertime" jams end? Are jams still likely in Mid September?


The season begins at the end of June with traffic jams in outbound traffic and lasts until the beginning of September, with return traffic causing the traffic jams from the end of August. Last big traffic jam e.g. before Lucko was last year on 16.09


----------



## keber

Currently ongoing is final phase of construction works on SE part of Ljubljana ring (A1):
https://www.openstreetmap.org/direc...4.5740;46.0162,14.5443#map=15/46.0253/14.5592
Plan is to expand in southward direction to continuous three lanes from exit Bizovik to A1/A2 interchange and to add additional lane at Ljubljana south exit. This exit has a lot of traffic and is very close to interchange (designed in seventies and eighties) so there are traffic jams almost every day. Current solution is cheap (2,3 million €) and wont be very effective, but it will help a bit. Better solution will have to wait until Ljubljana ring widening which is still far future.

A1 is from Saturday completely closed in south-west direction until Wednesday so all transit traffic is rerouted to H3. Traffic to direction of Zagreb is reduced to one lane only, also on westward ramp A2-A1. Pictures are from last Thursday, two day before full closure.



keber said:


> *A1 Litijska-Malence, stanje 9.8.2018, *tik pred popolno zaporo od 11.8-15.8. zaradi končnega asfaltiranja, montaže znakov in ostalega urejanja odseka.
> 
> Prva SOS niša, vidni so že pripravljeni prometni znaki za zaporo, vozen bo samo en pas proti Novemu mestu:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Druga SOS niša in urejen novi tretji prometni pas:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vožnja po novem asfaltu (še brez končne obrabne plasti):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dograjeni nasip je dokončan:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Širi in obnavlja se še priključek:


----------



## MercedesFan

Hi everyone. Any news about the construction of the H5 section Koper-Dragonja and/or the H6 section Izola-Lucija?
Thanks in advance...


----------



## Solčavec

keber said:


> Better solution will have to wait until Ljubljana ring widening which is still far future.


There is a plan to start upgrading emergency lane to third lane on section Domžale-Ljubljana(Zadobrova) and Vrhnika-Ljubljana(Kozarje) after 2020. The closest is the expansion of the western bypass, which should start before 2020. We'll see .


----------



## Solčavec

Podlehnik-Gruškovje, Avtor: Marko Vindiš, https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10216932382451348&set=a.10216932221327320.1073741836.1519295837&type=3&permPage=1

[URL="            [/URL]


----------



## keber

MercedesFan said:


> Hi everyone. Any news about the construction of the H5 section Koper-Dragonja and/or the H6 section Izola-Lucija?
> Thanks in advance...


Currently no news, we are waiting for new government. As it will be probably leftist it could be worse for motorway construction.


----------



## Eulanthe

Verso said:


> So in October.


And an on-location reoprt about the vignette situation:

From Croatia, the motorway looks like it will be vignette-free until the Podlehnik junction. I was looking very very carefully for any evidence, but it looks like they've already decided to allow traffic to use that section without a vignette, probably so that existing vignette sales point can be closed down. I suspect the problems caused by having such a small area to buy a vignette at the border means that they need to allow traffic the chance to get to the first petrol station. 

Towards Croatia, it's clear - the A4 will be tolled throughout the whole section from Ptuj to Gruskovje. They've also deliberately avoided signposting any border crossing on the 'free' route, except some temporary signs that show that the way to Croatia is vignette-free for now. At Podlehnik, the entry ramps to the A4 towards Gruskovje clearly show that a vignette is needed (but crossed out).

There's definitely no sign of any connection from the 'free' route to the border crossing - but because the last/first A4 junction wasn't accessible, I couldn't look to see if vignette signs have been erected there. Either way, they've clearly made the alternative 'free' route as unappealing as possible.


----------



## MichiH

It appears that only the last about 2km of A4 are not yet 2x2 in service. 5km up to Pohlehnik were opened in October 2017 but when has the 2nd carriageway of the other 4km been opened?


----------



## Verso

^^ What makes you think that additional 4 km of motorway have opened for traffic?


----------



## MichiH

^^ Chris-dmf told me


----------



## keber

Official opening to Podlehnik was in November 2017, there was no official opening for next 4 km as it is still a construction site with reduced speed limits.


----------



## MichiH

^^ Thanks, but since when is it in service? When was traffic diverted onto the 2nd carriageway?


----------



## Verso

I don't know anything about it.


----------



## Alex_ZR

78-year-old lady drove 4 km in wrong direction at A2 near Novo Mesto:






http://www.dolenjskanews.com/video-babi-4-km-v-nasprotno-smer-po-dolenjski-ac/


----------



## Eulanthe

MichiH said:


> ^^ Thanks, but since when is it in service? When was traffic diverted onto the 2nd carriageway?


Unless I've misunderstood you, traffic is using one of the carriageways of the new A4 along the entire length. I don't know when traffic was diverted, but for sure, one carriageway is more or less complete. 

Speaking of which, I had terribly good fun there. The limit is 50 from the border to Podlehnik, and knowing how Slovenian road behaviour is (very good), I put the cruise control on 52. Meanwhile, some clown behind me in a SUV was getting angrier and angrier, he was flashing his lights and visibly getting mad. I checked, he had Polish plates, and of course, he attempted at least two completely dangerous and idiotic overtaking moves.


----------



## Attus

Alex_ZR said:


> 78-year-old lady drove 4 km in wrong direction at A2 near Novo Mesto


Such things happen several times a day in Germany...


----------



## Verso

And worryingly often in Slovenia as well, so unfortunately this is nothing extraordinary. I once encountered it myself, but luckily it was on a city road in Ljubljana.


----------



## Shenkey

People after 70 should be forced to re-make the driver exam and to take a doctor examination every 5 years.


----------



## x-type

Eulanthe said:


> Unless I've misunderstood you, traffic is using one of the carriageways of the new A4 along the entire length. I don't know when traffic was diverted, but for sure, one carriageway is more or less complete.
> 
> Speaking of which, I had terribly good fun there. The limit is 50 from the border to Podlehnik, and knowing how Slovenian road behaviour is (very good), I put the cruise control on 52. Meanwhile, some clown behind me in a SUV was getting angrier and angrier, he was flashing his lights and visibly getting mad. I checked, he had Polish plates, and of course, he attempted at least two completely dangerous and idiotic overtaking moves.


I passed there yesterday. So, the motorway is complete up to exit Zakl. After that the traffic runs only on western carriageway 2+1 (2 lanes in southbound direction).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The losing bidders of the Slovenian part of the Karavanke Tunnel have lodged complaints against the awarding of contract to a Turkish construction company.

https://english.sta.si/2545659/pick-of-karavanke-tunnel-expansion-contractor-to-be-reviewed


----------



## Verso

They've put up a sign for Germany (D) in the Malence junction (SE corner of the Ljubljana ring). I think if they sign Germany by Ljubljana, then they should also sign Hungary (H).


----------



## Verso

^^










Sorry for a not-the-best photo.


----------



## General Maximus

Is signposting key cities in Austria not sufficient enough? If not, then I'd like to see signs for Belgium, the Netherlands and Denmark as well...


----------



## Verso

General Maximus said:


> Is signposting key cities in Austria not sufficient enough? If not, then I'd like to see signs for Belgium, the Netherlands and Denmark as well...


You forgot Luxembourg.


----------



## Slovenia_

A new control sistem on the former toll stations was introduce in Slovenia. Like they do in Austria. :banana:

https://twitter.com/trafficexpert1/status/1044948655025852417


----------



## x-type

General Maximus said:


> Is signposting key cities in Austria not sufficient enough? If not, then I'd like to see signs for Belgium, the Netherlands and Denmark as well...


Germany has always been signposted 10 km western from that spot at Ljubljana Kozarje junction.

I even remember those weird signs for Karawankentunnel with signed D at more places in Slovenia (one of them was near Obrežje border crossing)


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## General Maximus

I can recall Salzburg being signposted in Slovenia as well. In Austria, Salzburg usually comes with a "D"...


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> Germany has always been signposted 10 km western from that spot at Ljubljana Kozarje junction.


Eh? What are you talking about? The only signs for Germany in Slovenia were the Karavanke Tunnel signs. It's still signed only at Malence, nowhere else.


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## andy276

The stupid thing is that a sign for Germany here doesn't even make sense. If you're going to Germany, you wouldn't be driving this way at all.


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## Verso

^ Let's say you're coming from Maribor and the northern Ljubljana bypass is closed, but even then Austria or even just Kranj would be more than enough. Not many people coming from Maribor go to Germany.


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## kreden

My guess is that these extra signs are for HGVs when they are banned from the northern Ljubljana bypass at night.


----------



## Verso

^^ They aren't banned from the northern bypass, if they are going from Maribor to Kranj or vice versa.


----------



## Verso

Italia:









https://m.facebook.com/MADEByPetric/posts/1833111966755483?__xts__


----------



## Uppsala

What is the difference between motorways with green signs and blue signs? Most motorways have green signs, but in Ljubljana there is a motorway with blue signs. Why not green signs for that motorway? It's a normal motorway.


----------



## satanism

It's an expressway.


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## kreden

Uppsala said:


> What is the difference between motorways with green signs and blue signs? Most motorways have green signs, but in Ljubljana there is a motorway with blue signs. Why not green signs for that motorway? It's a normal motorway.


Blue signs indicate expressways, which have a lower speed limit (110 km/h instead of 130) and a narrower cross section. The H3 in Ljubljana is an exception, it’s the same width as a regular motorway.


----------



## Verso

H3 is an urban non-transit road with many interchanges and a lot of traffic, that's why it's an expressway rather than a motorway (except in Asian English :lol.


----------



## MichiH

chris-dmf said:


> https://mobile.twitter.com/DARS_SI/status/1027848306926469120
> 
> 
> This weekend is also busy road connection to Gruškovje. The traffic has already been arranged for 3 weeks, two kilometers in the newly built halfway section of the highway from Podlehnik, to the border crossing, while the other half will be finished in October 2018 and the Podravina AC between MB and Gruškovje will be completely completed. [Translated by google]


October is over and the 2nd carriageway is not yet opened. Is it still expected to be opened this year or do we have to wait for 2019? I read something about January....


----------



## Verso

^^ Bosnians were too optimistic, but they will probably open it this year.


----------



## Uksi

Majority of works are done and the opening of whole section is only a matter of time.

From Slovenian forums:


Solčavec;153562094 said:


> _Draženci-Gruškovje, 24. oktober, by Marko Vindiš_


----------



## MichiH

^^ "matter of time" but is it still likely to be opened in 2018? 

OSM is only indicating A4 now: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/46.2848/15.8654


----------



## Motorway Fan

MichiH said:


> ^^ "matter of time" but is it still likely to be opened in 2018?


Yes, latest info from article in mid-October said it will be opened by the end of November.


----------



## MichiH

opcorn:


----------



## Verso

MichiH said:


> OSM is only indicating A4 now: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/46.2848/15.8654


That's because the old road G1-9 doesn't exist any more. All traffic is running on a half-built motorway.


----------



## kreden

The contractual deadline for the completion of the section is January 19, 2019 and Dars has tried to be consistent in not commenting on the Bosnian contractor's PR announcements that the section will be completed by September or October or whenever. That particular tweet got away from them, but in general there hasn't been any official announcement on the opening date.

If we were to speculate, however, I would say December 1 is a pretty good bet. The Ministry of Infrastructure has published a proposed amendment to the tolling regulation, which will add the new section of the A4 to the list of toll roads and the effective date of the amendment is December 1, 2018: http://www.mzi.gov.si/fileadmin/mzi.gov.si/pageuploads/DC_splosno/Leskovsek_2018/ured_cest_2018.pdf

It also appears that the new Zakl junction will be renamed to Stanošina, which is the closer settlement.


----------



## Verso

There's a motorway between Trieste (Fernetiči) and Zagreb (Obrežje), you can see that on any up-to-date map.


----------



## alserrod

I would be wondering to go through Rijeka, and see, that all is 1x1, thus guess, no vignette needed.

In google street view I saw former booths where they sell vignettes.

Should I need, I do not mind to buy a monthly vignette or so (and out of my options for holidays are go driving), but should I can avoid it.

Another issue is if I choose any Northern Croatia destination. Guess several Slovenian visits will be mandatory, hope not longer queues in border (for me, until Croatia there aren't border booths) and reckon vignette would be a must if I wanna reach the capital (except if I take secondary roads).


----------



## Negjana

Is this a Q&A thread? hno:


----------



## bozata90

alserrod said:


> I would be wondering to go through Rijeka, and see, that all is 1x1, thus guess, no vignette needed.
> 
> In google street view I saw former booths where they sell vignettes.
> 
> Should I need, I do not mind to buy a monthly vignette or so (and out of my options for holidays are go driving), but should I can avoid it.
> 
> Another issue is if I choose any Northern Croatia destination. Guess several Slovenian visits will be mandatory, hope not longer queues in border (for me, until Croatia there aren't border booths) and reckon vignette would be a must if I wanna reach the capital (except if I take secondary roads).


alserrod, be aware that motorway from Rijeka to Zagreb is tolled, so it may be cheaper to buy a vignette in Slovenia that to pay Croatian tolls. Check the prices in advance.


----------



## MichiH

And coming from Italy you already had to pay so much tolls that the few euro for the Slovenian vignette are peanuts...



Negjana said:


> Is this a Q&A thread?


Sure


----------



## alserrod

bozata90 said:


> alserrod, be aware that motorway from Rijeka to Zagreb is tolled, so it may be cheaper to buy a vignette in Slovenia that to pay Croatian tolls. Check the prices in advance.


Sorry, 

considering to go to Rijeka, not to Zagreb. Seen motorway starts in border and seems not expensive (for what I am used to pay for tolls).

That was reason I asked... should I wanna go to Rijeka area (not considering Zagreb), guess do not need vignette, should I re-enter another time, guess would need

Am I wrong?

BTW, customs have a lot of queues?


----------



## alserrod

Negjana said:


> Is this a Q&A thread? hno:


Made several questions, correct....

I live in the country in Europe that receives more tourist every year. About 1,5 population for staying at least 1 week (no on transit). Guess, how many questions can be posted in threads.

In national threads it is welcome to write in English and some day moderators will set two threads... Q&A and FAQ (at least)


----------



## Verso

If you want to go to Rijeka without a Slovenian vignette, you have to be careful in Italy since they signpost Rijeka via Divača (Slovenian motorway). You have to drive via Basovizza (Bazovica).


----------



## Stuu

Negjana said:


> Is this a Q&A thread? hno:


Asking people who know about roads in another country a question about those roads seems entirely reasonable. Why wouldn't it be?


----------



## Gyorgy

^^ I think that for an average person, a few clicks on Google Maps and 5-10 minutes spend on different informative pages would erase the need for all these questions. Just basic digital literacy.


----------



## Verso

It's not like this thread is particularly busy. I'm more troubled with alserrod's English.


----------



## alserrod

Lol...

I have two problems indeed...

- Lack of technical conversations in English with this lexic
- Long time I do not write formal texts, just conversation

In addition, an English teacher said me that usually depending of words and sentences you could guess where in hell a person come. This is, as an example, south European English speakers will say much more "to continue" that "to keep on" even if they mean the same.



Back to topic, the fact is I was wondering to visit Croatia, in the coast. Never mind exact city and doesn't mind to move more or less around to visit anything it could deserve a day.

After glancing flights and not knowing which exact dates I could go (to book on) and seeing how
- prices rise
- schedules change a lot, even if booked
- I live in a city with strongly nice links by railway and poorly by plane. I have to move several hours and can choose several airports with any destination I wanna but... leaving at 6:00 or arriving at midnight is ****

therefore I asked myself, why do not consider by car?. I have travelled with my parents by car to several destinations, but never so long (1,5 days or so, this would be 2 days travelling).

That's why I asked. Never have used vignette and you could guess that if I can save, will save. If it deserves, will pay, and if I wanna do a visit to any city or site in Slovenia that is cool and may use vignette... will pay.

Just that.... and thx about fuel prices and... btw, do custom borders have queues or they just glance documentation and go through?. It is a loooooong time I do not cross a border by car with custom control (well, in Andorra there should be but never have been requested for it!!!!!!).

In addition, guess will not update my expired passport 'cos until Slovenia I do not have border booths and in Croatia it is enough with ID card for EU citizens (passport costs 30 euro for me, the same price that 1 month vignette indeed....)


----------



## Stuu

Gyorgy said:


> ^^ I think that for an average person, a few clicks on Google Maps and 5-10 minutes spend on different informative pages would erase the need for all these questions. Just basic digital literacy.


No, I would disagree. Often information pages for public services can be difficult to find or unclear, and often if there is a translation from the local language it will be only into English, and very often poor English. This makes it a lot harder to get the information, and bad translation is even worse for non-English speakers.


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> If you want to go to Rijeka without a Slovenian vignette, you have to be careful in Italy since they signpost Rijeka via Divača (Slovenian motorway). You have to drive via Basovizza (Bazovica).


No, in Italy Rijeka is signposted correctly, via Padriciano exit and SS14 through Basovizza, that doesn't require vignette.
https://www.google.it/maps/@45.6977...4!1s38bF46KT9FGvANZgTCcV0A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.it/maps/@45.6641...4!1sWjPGHr8wXurE-e422UiPhw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


----------



## Verso

^^ They change it all the time. :nuts:


----------



## keber

They are progressing with plans to separate transit and local traffic on G1-11 toward Croatian border in Koper with an underground passage under existing roundabout and two overpasses over current semaphored intersection, both of them cause largest traffic jams on this road in tourist season.
here:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/45.53292/13.73552
Overpasses should look like this (view from the south):








https://www.delo.si/novice/slovenija/letos-premik-pri-cesti-proti-hrvaski-istri-136352.html

Construction should begin this autumn.

Do you wonder when construction of H5 Koper-Dragonja-HR border will begin? Apparently not very soon, personally I don't see it completed sooner than in next 10 years.


----------



## alserrod

Verso said:


> ^^ A weekly vignette costs 15 euros. If you'll go to Istria, you'll need a vignette, unless you avoid those few kms of expressway. You probably mean police control at the border (there're no customs booths in the EU). Yes, queues can be long in summer, particularly to/from Croatian Istria. Between Trieste and Rijeka only on summer weekends.


Got it, but Croatia-Slovenia border has booths, hasn't it?


----------



## keber

It has police booths, not customs.


----------



## keber

Also what will be new this year on Slovenia motorways:
- 20 new VMS portals on A1
- deconstruction of all remaining toll booths and reconstruction of motorways on those parts
- from November variable speed limits around cities and larger towns will be introduced if PM10 particles will be too high
- installment of LED lights instead of classic delineators on additional sections with dangerous heavy fog (first such were installed this autumn on A1 between Razdrto and Senožeče)
- construction begin of 2nd tube Karavanke tunnel (hopefully)
- renovations of many motorway sections, including tunnel Golovec on A1-Ljubljana beltway (that will probably cause most traffic jams) and A2 between Grosuplje and Višnja Gora - old alignment (after just 14 years).
- tender should be published for building first 5 km of completely new expressway (3rd axis) on the part from A2 exit "Novo mesto east" toward Metlika - until junction for Renault factory (expressway designation is still not known, H8 is the next available designation).


----------



## bogdymol

keber said:


> - from November variable speed limits around cities and larger towns will be introduced if PM10 particles will be too high.



Slovenian IG-L?

Will it also alter the speed limit based on other factors except pollution (heavy traffic, bad weather etc)?


----------



## keber

Yes, Slovenian IG-L. Details of its workings are not known yet - also in first place additional VMS portals need to be installed. Current VMS portals already change speed limits according to traffic and (if) strong wind (not rain or snow - which is good; I don't like Croatian way where with first drops of rain there is general speed limit 80 km/h).


----------



## celevac

keber said:


> Yes, Slovenian IG-L.



:wallbash:


Too bad they have to copy all the bad things about motorways in neighboring Austria. First came the noise barriers, now IG-L. Soon we'll be driving like slugs through open-air tunnels of barriers, like for instance on Austrian A2 hno:


----------



## Negjana

Care to explain your reaction?


----------



## celevac

Negjana said:


> Care to explain your reaction?



Sure. On Austrian A9/A2 around Graz, you drive with 100 km/h on a perfect motorway for a very long section, e.g. Leibnitz - Sinabelkirchen. Then you have all the noise barriers, which make the drive boring and exhausting. You cannot see the beautiful landscape but you have to drive slowly on 2 or 3 lanes motorway with 100 km/h, even when the sun is out, all for the sake of the goddamn "environmental protection" where in fact a speed reduction of passenger cars does not even contribute so much. Better think about all the heavy cargo on trucks and the pollution emitted by old factories etc.


I always loved Slovenia for driving 130 km/h for long sections without stupid speed limits and for their scenic motorways. Always a pleasure traveling around. 



In Croatia we already have enough stupid speed limits with overhead displays, sometimes 40 km/h for a long time when there is only a bit of rain. Slovenia has done better than their neighbors so far.


----------



## keber

Adequate noise protection is a must especially because of quite dense population density around motorways and also our motorways have heavy traffic.
I'm quite sure that Slovenian IG-L won't be so harsh as in Austria as our environmental codes are not that strict.


----------



## eucitizen

Any plans to introduce eletronic vignette?


----------



## keber

There are plans for the future but not yet this year.


----------



## Chilio

Just a stupid question, if a weekly vignette is bought on 3rd February, which is the last day it is still valid?


----------



## Verso

^^ 9th February. Don't buy it at 23.59.


----------



## Chilio

I have my return travel on 10th anyway, so I have to buy the next option which was if I am not mistaken 30 euro. Too bad there are no daily or weekend vignettes as I have to pass through the country transit on 3rd and 10th.


----------



## Verso

^^ Yes, a monthly vignette (or two weekly vignettes) cost(s) 30 euros.


----------



## Verso

rudiwien said:


> Shenkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> We didn't build all of them to Austria. There is still a plan for a connection in Koroska/Karenten.
> 
> 
> 
> Really? Where? All the way to the border?
Click to expand...

From Celje to Dravograd, but it will most likely be a 2-lane expressway between Slovenj Gradec (or even Velenje) and Austria.


----------



## rudiwien

Verso said:


> From Celje to Dravograd, but it will most likely be a 2-lane expressway between Slovenj Gradec (or even Velenje) to Austria.



But no plans to do something actually to the border, right?


----------



## Verso

^ Dravograd is very close to the border and needs a bypass, so I'm sure there're plans to build a new road all the way to the border.


----------



## keber

Verso said:


> From Celje to Dravograd, but it will most likely be a 2-lane expressway between Slovenj Gradec (or even Velenje) and Austria.


 There will be 4 lanes until Slovenj Gradec - this is for sure. 4 lanes are planned until Ravne but probably in the first phase just 2 lanes.
Main design project is currently in advanced stage for sections between Velenje and Slovenj Gradec and Novo mesto almost-bypass.


----------



## Solčavec

Shenkey said:


> We didn't build all of them to Austria. There is still a plan for a connection in Koroska/Karenten.


And the Karavanke tunnel is not completed, so there is only one completed connection betwen Austria and Slovenia and that is Šentilj. Slovenia has finished two highways to Croatia, but on Gruškovje/Macelj we are now waiting for the Croatian side to finish the 1+1 section near Krapina. Also on the Hungarian side Slovenia is waiting to get the first completed conection to the east. In this story, the Italians are obviously the best neighbors. 
Thank you Romania.:lol:


----------



## rudiwien

keber said:


> There will be 4 lanes until Slovenj Gradec - this is for sure. 4 lanes are planned until Ravne but probably in the first phase just 2 lanes.
> Main design project is currently in advanced stage for sections between Velenje and Slovenj Gradec and Novo mesto almost-bypass.



Thanks for the infos!

Interesting, this is something really low on the radar in the Austrian news; I found now one article where they also mention that the route (or a branch?) is planned to Holmec, so towards Bleiburg on the Austrian side. But local politicians, from Bleiburg and Lavamünd (next to Dravograd) complain that they are not at all informed about any projects, and they are not aware that there is anything planned on the Austrian side... Will be interesting to see what develops there.

It's interesting from an Austrian perspective, as towards Czech republic, Austria is currently extending the motorway / expressway connections (A5, S3), with the Czechs lagging behind.
But then Hungary is building the expressway towards Sopron, with Austria being a bit unprepared for that, and with this one here, I guess local politicians will be wary that there is increased traffic in the south-eastern part of Carinthia.


----------



## Puležan

Solčavec;156210650 said:


> ... Slovenia has finished two highways to Croatia, but on Gruškovje/Macelj we are now waiting for the Croatian side to finish the 1+1 section near Krapina. ...:


Croatian part of A2 near Krapina is a half-motorway (2 lanes, one per direction, grade separated), so it's not that bad (and it's 10 km from the border, so you cannot say that motorway connection doesn't exist).

On the other hand, out of 4 motorway connections between SLO and HR, 2 are still missing on Slovenian side:
- Rupa/Jelsane border crossing - Croatia had built A7 up until b/c, but Slovenian side didn't even choose the route (towards Postojna or Divaca)
- Kastel/Dragonja border crossing - Croatian A9 ends 2 km before b/c, but Slovenian H5 ends in Koper and is legging behind with plans.

Both routes have big traffic amounts during summer (especially H5/A9).

So, NHF neighbours, but we all must show all the facts  :cheers:


----------



## Verso

rudiwien said:


> Thanks for the infos!
> 
> Interesting, this is something really low on the radar in the Austrian news; I found now one article where they also mention that the route (or a branch?) is planned to Holmec, so towards Bleiburg on the Austrian side. But local politicians, from Bleiburg and Lavamünd (next to Dravograd) complain that they are not at all informed about any projects, and they are not aware that there is anything planned on the Austrian side... Will be interesting to see what develops there.
> 
> It's interesting from an Austrian perspective, as towards Czech republic, Austria is currently extending the motorway / expressway connections (A5, S3), with the Czechs lagging behind.
> But then Hungary is building the expressway towards Sopron, with Austria being a bit unprepared for that, and with this one here, I guess local politicians will be wary that there is increased traffic in the south-eastern part of Carinthia.


They plan a new 2-lane road to Holmec, bypassing towns and villages, but nothing special otherwise. This is a rather internal Slovenian expressway, but since Austria is close, it could reach it. OTOH, the Austrian road(s) to A2 do(es)n't run through large towns, so it's not a priority for Austria. If both countries were to build an expressway to the border, it would be interesting to observe, which is worse: Slovenia's eternal lack of money or Austria's bureaucracy. :lol:


----------



## yohaniv

Some maps for orientation ...


----------



## smokiboy

I know the Beltway motorway around Ljubljana was constructed in stages, but I'm curious when was it completely finished?


----------



## keber

In year 1999 with the opening of Golovec tunnel.
In 2008 the A2 toward Austria was connected as last motorway to Ljubljana ring.


----------



## smokiboy

Thanks Keber.

The Ljubljana Ring Road is the only one of its type in ex-yugo. Similar to many mid sized cities in USA and Europe. Only Zagreb comes close with their southern half-ring section. Beograd is similar however not yet completed their southern half-ring section, (although it is under construction).

Any plans on widening it to 3x3 + emergency lane?


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## Verso

The first part of the ringroad was opened in 1981, the last one in 1999. The western part of it is planned for widening to 3+3 with emergency lanes, the rest eventually.


----------



## Verso

By 2022 they will have built a bypass of Kozina and Hrpelje on the road Trieste–Rijeka:










http://www.di.gov.si/si/medijsko_sredisce/novica/5985/


----------



## smokiboy

I know this has been debated before but with most of the SLO motorway network complete, has there been any recent proposals for a new motorway from Postojna to Jelšane on CRO border towards Rijeka? Is there enough traffic to warrant this section even in the off season? It does appear to be a missing link in the wider regional motorway network.


----------



## Shenkey

After the one from Dravograd to Maline, widening of whole Ljubljana ring and a bunch of other widenings around Ljubljana.


----------



## smokiboy

What are the realistic chances of motorway from Dravograd to Maline to be built? What is the timeline?


----------



## keber

First section to Maline (north of Metlika) could start construction end of this year.
Part from Šentrupert (west of Celje to Slovenj Gradec) could start construction next year (with some preparatory works this year).
Politics say above - realistically in 2020 there will be construction on some parts with openings in 2023 at earliest.


----------



## Verso

Shenkey said:


> After the one from Dravograd to Maline


From Dravograd to Raspberries. :lol:


----------



## smokiboy

Have the Austrians expressed interest in connecting their A2 to future motorway at Dravograd?

Same question about connection from Maline (Novo Mesto) and further south to connect directly at Croatian A1 turnoff towards Split?

This would totally avoid summer traffic jams in and around Zagreb.


----------



## keber

No and no. Third axis is meant for connecting regions within Slovenia. If and when traffic increases enough then maybe more interest from A or CRO will be shown. Be aware that the middle section (connecting A1 to A2) which will be the most difficult (about one quarter of 56 km is on bridges and tunnels with a number of additional retaining walls) is still in early planning phase and probably won't see any construction in min. 15 years and even then it will mostly have just two lanes.


----------



## Verso

Accident on A1 Vrhnika–Ljubljana, one lane is closed, 21-km traffic jam. Avoid, if possible.


----------



## miodragstankovich

I visited Slovenia three times with my parents. First two (Winter 2017 and 2018) to Kranjska Gora,and at summer 2018,to Klagenfurt,but with stop in Ljubljana.

I don't remeber that road to Klagenfurt very much,as second to Kranjska Gora. I remember that there was exit from highway what we used to Kranjska Gora,than some blue signs,exit for Kropa,and long turns near border.

The last thing i remember is one tunnel,very long,and then we saw Austrian signs and recognized that we're in Austria.. 

Is there anybody who have photos from that road? Just to refresh my brain.


----------



## Verso

^^ Yes, Google Street View has them.  I only have this photo of the exit:


----------



## miodragstankovich

Ahh... Good old E652...  Thanks Verso! 
Refreshed!


----------



## Verso

Must be one of few E-roads where trucks are banned.


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> Must be one of few E-roads where trucks are banned.


E61 (SS14) from Trieste to Pesek border crossing is restricted to trucks above 7.5 tons.


----------



## Verso

I knew you'd come up with that one. :lol:


----------



## italystf

^^ The ban came into force in 2017 because people in the village of Basovizza complainded because of the traffic in their town. The road doesn't pass through the centre of the village, but at its edge, and has two standard-size lanes. Now trucks travelling between Trieste and Rijeka have to drive via RA14 and A3 (across Fernetti/Sezana border corossing). This road, unlikely the one via Basovizza, requires the vignette.
It's incredible how local councils in Italy have the power to make decisions that affect national or international mobility.


----------



## Verso

stickedy said:


> For example you come from Austria over Jezerski vrh and you want to travel to Croatia over Kočevje. This was a common route 40 years ago and would still be a good choice when you could somehow drive on good roads around Ljubljana. But to be honest I was never driving through the city, but I guess during workdays is not that fun. Or?


Man, how many hours would it take you to get from Austria to Croatia on that route? If you can take that, you can also drive through Ljubljana for some time. It's not fun in rush hours, but outside that it's not a problem.


----------



## stickedy

Verso said:


> Man, how many hours would it take you to get from Austria to Croatia on that route? If you can take that, you can also drive through Ljubljana for some time. It's not fun in rush hours, but outside that it's not a problem.


There are a lot of people for who travelling and holiday is not about getting from A to B on the fastest possible route but to relax, seeing something of the country (and Slovenia is a beautiful one, you know), stopping here and there and just having a good time.

Getting stucked in a traffic jam is not qualifying for that 

Good to know that Ljubljana is not that big problem. Rush hour is usually in every city a nightmare 

To come back to your question: From Klagenfurt to Rijeka over Lubelj and motorways is taking about 3 hours, over Kovenje it will be around 1.5 hours more. When you now take into consideration the main motorways and main roads being blocked with cars in holiday season, the time difference will not be that big and travelling is a lot more relaxed.


----------



## Verso

Ok, so you'd like to see everything possible in Slovenia, but you'd skip Ljubljana. Ok then...


----------



## stickedy

Verso said:


> Ok, so you'd like to see everything possible in Slovenia, but you'd skip Ljubljana. Ok then...


I am not into cities, I like nature


----------



## keber

In summer, at least in July and August there is pretty light traffic even in rush hours - but often many roadworks are planned in Ljubljana during summer. Driving through center you lose around 10 minutes comparing to motorway. Many people are on vacation and also a lot people (including me) use bicycle to get to the job.


----------



## Verso

I was a little bored, so I gathered data for the busiest motorways around Ljubljana and Maribor in 2017 (but there aren't data available for all sections).

Ljubljana:
Ringroad: A2 Lj. Kozarje–Lj. Brdo 75.204 AADT (vpd)
A1 Lj. Zadobrova–Lj. Sneberje 71.000
A1 Brezovica–Vrhnika 65.445
A2 Ljubljana (Malence)–Šmarje-Sap 53.875
A2 Lj. Šmartno–Vodice 53.413

Maribor:
A1 Maribor (Slivnica)–Fram 44.407
A5 Maribor (Dragučova)–Pernica 27.120
A1 Maribor (Pesnica)–Šentilj 26.475
A4 Marjeta–Zlatoličje 20.535

source :cheers:


----------



## satanism

So, what's the next big project for Slovenia? I know you're building the tunnel with AT now but otherwise it seems nothing else is going on on the roads subject.


----------



## stickedy

The expressways to Dravograd and to Metlika are next on the to-do-list as far as I get that.

But I wonder about extension of H5 to Dragonja and a possible motorway or expressway to Jelsane? And I thought further extension of H6 direction of Portoroz was also planned in the past.


----------



## satanism

makes little sense to have H5 and H6 tbh...considering the really small distances, wouldn't it make sense to be one road?


----------



## Verso

satanism said:


> I know you're building the tunnel with AT now


No, we aren't :lol: (good thing is that Austrians have 1 km more to dig).

As for H5 and H6, locals don't want an expressway between Lucija/Portorož and Croatia, because it would be hard to locate it there. They actually want H5 first, because they're afraid transit traffic would start using H6, if it's built all the way from Koper to Lucija/Portorož.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A rockslide on Ljubelj Pass


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1122548513299210241


----------



## Verso

^^ And it's snowing there too, so it's Ljubljana–Klagenfurt via Karavanke Tunnel.


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## Verso

The road E652 Ljubljana–Klagenfurt will be closed for 1,5 months.

https://www.rtvslo.si/lokalne-novice/gorenjska/skalni-podor-zaprl-prelaz-ljubelj/486769


----------



## Verso

I've discovered AADT figures in and around Ljubljana in 1997.


----------



## Slovenia_

About new toll sistem DARSGO in Slovenia:

https://www.roaduserchargingconference.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/88/2019/03/Matej-Kranjc.pdf


63% of toll is paid from foreigner truck. 
Which means that we are in top 3 from toll revenue from foreigner trucks.
I would say top 1. :nuts:


----------



## Verso

Verso said:


> The road E652 Ljubljana–Klagenfurt will be closed for 1,5 months.
> 
> https://www.rtvslo.si/lokalne-novice/gorenjska/skalni-podor-zaprl-prelaz-ljubelj/486769


Actually it's open again, although on a short stretch only one lane is open and traffic is regulated with traffic lights.


----------



## Slovenia_

For truck drivers:
http://www.promet.si/portal/sl/sprememba-prometne-ureditve-tovornega-prometa-nad-75-t--na-cestah-postojna-jelšane-in-kozina-starod-.aspx

From 1.6. there we be some restrictions on slovenian border crossings (more then 7,5 t):

1. Triest (I) - Rijeka (HR): Border crossings Starod/Pasjak and Jelšane/Rupa: Only trucks with end or start in Istra, Rijeka, Lika, Gorski Kotar will be allowed to pass. All other transit will have to use highway *A1-A2 via Ljubljana* Border: Obrežje/Bregana

2. Graz (A) - Zagreb (HR): Border crossing Središče ob Dravi/Trnovec and Zavrč/Dubrava Križovljanska only for trucks going to Medzimurje or Varaždin. All others transit will have to use highway *A4 or A5* Border: Gruškovje/Macelj or Goričan/Lenti (H)-Lendava)

3. Border crossing Dobovec/Lupinjak and Bistrica ob Sotli/Razvor only local. All others going or coming from A1 will have to use *A1-A4 * Border: Gruškovje/Macelj

It will be interesting to see the jams on Gruškovje/Macelj and Obrežje/Bregana in the future :hmm:


----------



## Verso

^^ Btw, that's a 115-km-long detour between Trieste and Split.


----------



## Eulanthe

Those closures are a bit strange - I can understand limiting them on certain days (for instance, Friday to Sunday in summer), but to close both Starod/Pasjak and Jelšane/Rupa means a huge detour for trucks for no real reason, especially on normal workdays. 

Središče ob Dravi/Trnovec and Zavrč/Dubrava Križovljanska also seems really strange - it also forces a huge detour for no real reason. I spent a lot of time exploring the border crossings in that area last summer, and there were never any problems at both of those crossings. I think the longest I waited at Središče ob Dravi/Trnovec was 2 minutes. I suppose they might want to force traffic in staying on the motorway via Lendava, but it makes no sense.

I wonder how long it will be before transport companies take countries to the European courts over these closures. There's the same problem on the Polish/Czech border where many, many routes are limited to 3.5t/7.5t only for no justifiable reason, and forcing transit traffic to take exceptionally long detours seems to be against freedom of movement.


----------



## Verso

^^ They're closing them because of 2-lane roads through villages, not because of border crossings. Slovenia and some Croatian counties (_županije_) will be exempt. In northern Croatia that's the Varaždin- and Međimurje counties, and in western Croatia it's the Istria-, Primorje-Gorski Kotar- and Lika-Senj counties. For all others it's a long detour.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Heavy truck traffic through villages is no fun, besides the safety factor, it also greatly reduces the quality of life of those living near the road, with vibrations, exhaust and noise. I'm in favor of requiring trucks to use the motorways, which is commonplace in many places anyway.


----------



## italystf

ChrisZwolle said:


> Heavy truck traffic through villages is no fun, besides the safety factor, it also greatly reduces the quality of life of those living near the road, with vibrations, exhaust and noise. I'm in favor of requiring trucks to use the motorways, which is commonplace in many places anyway.


I can understand banning non-local trucks on centres of towns and villages, but something they go to far. SS14 from Trieste (RA13) to Pesek border crossing was closed to trucks because it "disturbs" the village of Basovizza. However, SS14 doesn't even cross the village, but it bypasses it. There's probably just a dozen of houses around SS14. Would that justify a longer and more polluting trip around Divaca?


----------



## Verso

A new 1-km-long section of a high mountain road on Mangart is ready to be built. It bypasses the problematic part of the old road, which has been closed since 2012.









https://www.rtvslo.si/radiokoper/pr...0-na-mangartsko-sedlo-nadomestna-cesta/452236


----------



## alserrod

italystf said:


> ^^ The ban came into force in 2017 because people in the village of Basovizza complainded because of the traffic in their town. The road doesn't pass through the centre of the village, but at its edge, and has two standard-size lanes. Now trucks travelling between Trieste and Rijeka have to drive via RA14 and A3 (across Fernetti/Sezana border corossing). This road, unlikely the one via Basovizza, requires the vignette.
> It's incredible how local councils in Italy have the power to make decisions that affect national or international mobility.


I guess I will use that road this summer.

Anything special there to be awared?.

I wonder why Slovenian gv. didn't built a motorway. I reckon most of traffic would be for transit only but... 30 km motorway and I would buy a one month vignette. I guess it will wonder. I will cross Slovenia without buying vignette 'cos I will not use any motorways


----------



## czerwony_bo_szybszy

Verso said:


> A new 1-km-long section of a high mountain road on Mangart is ready to be built. It bypasses the problematic part of the old road, which has been closed since 2012.


How far is it currently possible to drive in direction Mangart? 
I'm planning a trekking to the peak this summer and I wonder where I'll have to leave the car (and if this can be done within 1 day)


----------



## Verso

^ Until here. Many people just continue driving to the top. It's possible, but driving under those rocks doesn't look very safe.


----------



## KHS

A bicycle heaven :drool: 

Starting from Log it is a 16.5 km long accent where you climb 1400 height meters with the average percentage of 8.5 %.

I still didn't have a chance to try it personally but it seems similar to Sveti Jure, Biokovo I conquered two days ago... from 0 to 1762 meters above sea level in 30 km with average percentage of 6 %.

Nice, maybe this year


----------



## Gyorgy

Verso said:


> ^ Until here. Many people just continue driving to the top. It's possible, but driving under those rocks doesn't look very safe.


Safer than walking... but it's prohibitet as well.


----------



## g.spinoza

Apparently nobody cares... even the Streetview car..


----------



## keber

alserrod said:


> I wonder why Slovenian gv. didn't built a motorway.


 2017 traffic data (data for 2018 will be available soon) show that AADT of 4870 (about 10% of that is truck traffic) doesn't make motorway feasible in that direction. ASDT is much higher but again not so much that new motoway would be justified.
Future motorway will come from the north as there is more traffic in that direction and both border crossings have together around 10,000 AADT so it makes sense to combine motorway corridors. Motorway on Croatian side has AADT about 8500.


----------



## italystf

keber said:


> 2017 traffic data (data for 2018 will be available soon) show that AADT of 4870 (about 10% of that is truck traffic) doesn't make motorway feasible in that direction. ASDT is much higher but again not so much that new motoway would be justified.
> Future motorway will come from the north as there is more traffic in that direction and both border crossings have together around 10,000 AADT so it makes sense to combine motorway corridors. Motorway on Croatian side has AADT about 8500.


Will it depart from A1 somewhere near Postojna?


----------



## keber

That is the most logical proposal and also preferred by designers however NIMBYs are strong here.


----------



## italystf

keber said:


> That is the most logical proposal and also preferred by designers however NIMBYs are strong here.


That's the most logical only for traffic from/to Ljubljana, not from Trieste, Koper, or Nova Gorica.


----------



## keber

True, but this traffic is also the largest as it also includes Pivka and Ilirska Bistrica that generate considerable traffic with surrounding settlements.
If there would be a motorway from Postojna, it would be faster if from Nova Gorica with no additional distance traveled, additional 25 km for transit from Italy inland and about 30-35 km if from Koper or Trieste.


----------



## italystf

keber said:


> True, but this traffic is also the largest as it also includes Pivka and Ilirska Bistrica that generate considerable traffic with surrounding settlements.
> If there would be a motorway from Postojna, it would be faster if from Nova Gorica with no additional distance traveled, additional 25 km for transit from Italy inland and about 30-35 km if from Koper or Trieste.


With a motorway between Postojna and Rupa, travelling between Palmanova and Rijeka would probably be faster via Gorizia and Postojna. Between Trieste/Koper and Rijeka probably the old route 7/E61 will remain faster.


----------



## keber

For now one new motorway is more than enough. If in the future decades traffic increases enough then another motorway (or at least expressway) could be built. 
In the mean time current main road will receive some upgrades, most important of them is Kozina bypass that is currently in the process of main design project and should be constructed in 2022. More upgrades to old Mussolini road are planned, mostly new sidewalks and safer intersections in other villages.


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> That's the most logical only for traffic from/to Ljubljana, not from Trieste, Koper, or Nova Gorica.


Nova Gorica to Rijeka via Postojna is just fine. Building a motorway to H4 would be the worst option. And traffic between Koper and Rijeka is low.


----------



## Verso

Viaduct Sejanca on the expressway Ptuj–Ormož:


Solčavec;159476883 said:


>


----------



## Eulanthe

Wait...what Ptuj-Ormoz expressway? And why on earth aren't they continuing through to Središče ob Dravi when that route provides the most logical route between Budapest and Ljubljana?


----------



## kreden

It's a single-carriageway expressway, essentially a main road with grade separation. 

It's probably going to have a 90 km/h speed limit and no expressway signs, but these signs instead:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ That's pretty much the same across Europe - save for some local exceptions.


----------



## Verso

AFAIK, public transport is much more used in most of Europe (although still less than private cars). And there are usually 6-lane motorways around larger cities.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Driving is the main mode of transportation in every EU country, the average is 83% and only a few countries are slightly below 80%. Slovenia is on the upper end of the scale, at ~88%.

>> https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/stati...t_statistics#Modal_split_of_inland_passengers


----------



## Verso

^ And even of those 10% bus passengers a lot of them must be passengers on city buses who don't affect traffic on motorways. There're probably statistics somewhere.


----------



## keber

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is there increased commuting from smaller towns to larger cities?


Today morning traffic jams because of some rain:








(although this often happens on perfect clear weather ...)
All those red motorway parts including Ljubljana ring are planned to have 6 lanes (someday).


----------



## čarli1

Accident on Ljubljana bypass. Driver died.


----------



## kreden

The H2 expressway through Maribor is history. Effective January 1, it’s been reclassified into regional road 430 and has become vignette-free. Electronic tolling for HGVs remains in place.


----------



## RipleyLV

^^ So that means you could add H2 numbering to a new expressway in case of build?


----------



## keber

New expressways to start construction this year will get designations H8 and H9. Also we had H1 expressway until completion of A2 in 2011 but it also has been reclassified to regional road and H1 designation was retired.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Which expressways will H8 and H9 form? That new expressway from Celje to Dravograd?


----------



## kreden

Celje to Dravograd and Novo mesto to Metlika.


----------



## Eulanthe

kreden said:


> The H2 expressway through Maribor is history. Effective January 1, it’s been reclassified into regional road 430 and has become vignette-free. Electronic tolling for HGVs remains in place.


Interesting backstory here: it seems that the H2 should never have been tolled in the first place, as it was built by public money through taxation imposed on the people of Maribor. 

In related news, it seems that vignette-avoidance is causing severe problems at smaller border crossings in summer now, particularly Zgornji Leskovec/Cvetlin. I've read an article that there was a 7km jam in front of the Zgornji Leskovec crossing last summer, and it seems that by closing Gruskovje for non-vignette traffic, they've simply made worse problems elsewhere. It's only going to get worse, and I do wonder if the European Commission won't finally rule these vignettes to be an unfair tax on transit traffic.


----------



## keber

And what do you recommend? Going back to old toll plazas? Forward to distance based tolling Portuguese style (as the only country in the middle of Europe)?
I think much of those traffic problems will dissapear with Croatia entering Schengen.


----------



## Slovenia_

Long jams on Zgornji Leskovec are not just because people are avoing to buy vignettes. A lot of cars there do have vignette. Jams are there because people are avoiding Gruškovje (through google maps and other navigations) because of long waiting time on Gruškovje. In summer you can wait 3 hours and more to cross Gruškovje border. I also always use or Leskovec or Dobovec in the summer time (and yes i do have vignette).


----------



## Verso

kreden said:


> The H2 expressway through Maribor is history. Effective January 1, it’s been reclassified into regional road 430 and has become vignette-free. Electronic tolling for HGVs remains in place.


I guess it's now a road reserved for motor vehicles.


----------



## XHaner5

čarli;164143696 said:


> Accident on Ljubljana bypass. Driver died.


Weird mobile link that does not work on desktop computer, yuck.

Proper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRPpGggBYp0


----------



## Solčavec

A third lane will be built on the section Vrhnika-Kozarje and Domžale-Zadobrova.

https://siol.net/avtomoto/promet/odlocitev-je-padla-cez-dve-leti-se-boste-ze-vozili-po-treh-pasovih-515549


----------



## keber

To clarify, during necessary renovation works that are currently in design phase shoulders will be widened to running shoulders.


----------



## Puležan

Solčavec;165448634 said:


> A third lane will be built on the section Vrhnika-Kozarje and Domžale-Zadobrova.
> 
> https://siol.net/avtomoto/promet/odlocitev-je-padla-cez-dve-leti-se-boste-ze-vozili-po-treh-pasovih-515549


If I understand Slovenian correctly, there won't be hard shoulders anymore on those sections? Only SOS niches?


----------



## keber

Article is wrong (yellow media with click-bait titles...) 
Hard shoulder will be widened to allow driving when signalisation will permit that (in times of heavy traffic) . A1 on Unec-Postojna section was already renewed in 2018 in such manner. 
System will be similar to many section in Germany, Netherlands etc.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Shoulder lane running. Do you have some photos of that location on A1 that already has it?


----------



## Verso

^ There's no such section, they just widened the hard shoulder to prepare it for shoulder lane running in the future.


----------



## niskogradnja

Verso said:


> ^ There's no such section, they just widened the hard shoulder to prepare it for shoulder lane running in the future.


Great idea. Such an improvement will be sufficent for many years. The motorway from Koper to Ljubljana was always busy when I was driving on it. Interestingly, when you reach the Ljubljana bypass, traffic instantly becomes smoother even though the capacity is the same. Slovenia has some really good solutions regarding traffic. I like the new facilities on A-1 near Ljubljana and elsewhere, where you must drive through when vignette-control is enforced. It didn't affect too much traffic flow when I was in a situation a control being actual.

Another cool stuff is the drainage solution they employ on some streches of motorway that have shown as dangerous in case of rain. It is the sort of drainage you hear a funny sound when you drive over it. Could someone local explain this a little bit and I was wondering: isn't that even a slovenian invention, because I never saw it elsewhere?


----------



## čarli1

Last year 12% more ppl died (2019 vs 2018) on slovenian roads


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Karawanken Tunnel*

DARS report that the contract for the second tube of the Karavanke Tunnel will be signed on 30 January. This is for the Slovenian part of the tunnel.

>> https://www.dars.si/Sporocila_za_ja...o_stekla_gradnja_druge_cevi_predora_Karavanke


----------



## keber

With such low traffic numbers Dars is making urgent pavement repairs around Ljubljana. In normal times with just one running lane it would mean 5-10, maybe even 20 km long traffic jam in this place.


















https://www.facebook.com/uli.zorin/posts/2490222547750162?__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARBreNjdo2VLIofZ7ZfqQepoAXK1ys5E5ize1H13L_sUqolzdo-x6jiEtpBEhdfPXZAPBEDv6bAdwXdU4nLSBcy19pkteK5XRe32uHsK3rowQ0Q0oJhIi3K6Ya4pCazLYA6cU-3w8XMcTose2u13kkLsI5q5EC8LP1w6_niPPNd3vEeB8_JGVDaARb9Tnf8BgPsTXMiJt8JeUEtaYd3XsTeaaSirT6WTOQsEEqCEEfFIHScHN0c4ehuA7M3Zv-EEBzUp&__tn__=-R
It is actually quite eerie to see so empty motorway at this particular part.


----------



## keber

Traffic numbers in March on all 4 main routes to Ljubljana. Blue are all vehicles, orange are trucks.





































Construction of Karavanke tunnel second tube was suspended on both sides. Also many other construction works planned for this year are in jeopardy because toll revenue will be much smaller than expected.


keber said:


> Tudi državnemu podjetju dobesedno puhtijo milijoni
> 
> 
> Ustavljen je najpomembnejši investicijski projekt na cestah. In že ob bližajočih se velikonočnih praznikih bo udarec po mošnji še težji.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.zurnal24.si


----------



## tfd543

So I wrote to policija.si and asked if I could use other border crossings than Gruškovje, Obrežje, Metlika or Jelšane to enter Croatia next week. Im EU citizen living in an green country (DK) as Slovenia classifies it. They replied that I can only pass using the said crossing points, but isn't that a mistake ? Maybe they didn't understand me well in the e-mail. I should be able to use all crossing points since I neither have to be in quarantine nor showing a valid covid-19 test. Whats true here if anyone can help ? thnx lads.


----------



## keber

Of course you can enter Croatia also on other border crossings without any problems. Probably they misunderstood the question. Those four border crossings are meant for citizens from red countries to enter Slovenia (not exit).


----------



## tfd543

keber said:


> Of course you can enter Croatia also on other border crossings without any problems. Probably they misunderstood the question. Those four border crossings are meant for citizens from red countries to enter Slovenia (not exit).


Oh good to know. Made my day. thnx.


----------



## Slovenia_

With Croatia there is no problem, you can enter or exit at every border crossing. 
The problem is with border crossing with Austria, Italy or Hungary. 
Border crossing that are opened for all passangers on other crossing is prohibited:
with Austria: Only Spielfeld/Šentilj, Karawankentunnel/Karavanke and Loiblpass/Ljubelj are opened (note: People with Austrian or Slovenian passport can cross also on all other point)
with Italy: Škofije, Vrtojba, Fernetiči and Krvavi potok are opened (note: People with Italian or Slovenian passport can cross also on all other point)
with Hungary: Dolga vas, Pince are opened (note: People with Hungarian or Slovenian passport can cross also on all other point)


----------



## tfd543

^^ Wow so it means that I cant use the wurzenpass as an alternative to karawankentunnel ? Not even as an EU citizen residing in a safe country?

I was also astonished that they havent digitalized the toll for cars in SLO. It should be in end of 2021, right?


----------



## keber

Yeah, digital vignette was announced for the end of 2021. Also, there won't be yearly vignette anymore, but 365-day vignette. However currently there are still no works being done in this direction. Hopefully more news will arrive in autumn.


----------



## Slovenia_

tfd543 said:


> ^^ Wow so it means that I cant use the wurzenpass as an alternative to karawankentunnel ? Not even as an EU citizen residing in a safe country?


No, unfortunately you can not. You can use only Karawanentunnel or Loiblpass. 
Other borders are closed (except for SLO and A passports) and it does not matter if you are coming from green, orange or red country.

But if you are travelling on Saturday (also Friday, Sunday or Monday) check waiting time on Karawankentunnel, because there are long traffic jams (with waiting time 2 hours and more). So then better to use Loiblpass.


----------



## tfd543

Thnx. I Will check asfinfag’s waiting time list.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

All set for the boring of the second tube of the Karavanke Tunnel from the Slovenian side.









Photo by DARS


----------



## keber

Yesterday our government confirmed e-vignette (similar to Hungarian, Slovakian, Austrian or Romanian system) and completely abolishing stickers. It is planned for introduction in december 2021. Also with e-vignette the yearly vignette will be valid for 365 days from purchase date and not just in the year of purchase.


----------



## smar

Hi guys,
any news about the construction of a highway from Postojna to the Croatian border (Rupa)?


----------



## tfd543

keber said:


> Yesterday our government confirmed e-vignette (similar to Hungarian, Slovakian, Austrian or Romanian system) and completely abolishing stickers. It is planned for introduction in december 2021. Also with e-vignette the yearly vignette will be valid for 365 days from purchase date and not just in the year of purchase.


Great news but why so long time from now?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They need to tender the whole system yet. That means a digital point of sale, backend systems, enforcement systems, maybe introduce new laws. That's too tight to implement between now and 1 December 2020.


----------



## VITORIA MAN

__


----------



## MichiH

Please stop spamming.....


----------



## keber

ChrisZwolle said:


> They need to tender the whole system yet. That means a digital point of sale, backend systems, enforcement systems, maybe introduce new laws. That's too tight to implement between now and 1 December 2020.


If there is a political will then it can be done very quickly. Current system was put on line in just 4 months from first ideas about vignettes in early 2008 to implementation on 1st July 2008. With existing electronic tolling for trucks much of needed infrastructure already exists (cameras, license plate recognition and database, enforcement), sales points are everywhere, they just need appropriate software (like for Hungarian tolls in eastern Slovenian regions). E-vignette will be possible to buy also with mobile apps that can be developed quickly. There is probably just a legislation catch.


----------



## keber

After two months renovation of western tube of tunnel Golovec on A1 (Ljubljana bypass) was finished last weekend. Works have been carried out 24/7. About 600 m long tunnel with 2x3 lanes was opened in 1999 and needed seroius renovation because of intruding water streams from geologically complicated hill above. Also it was not designed to take almost ten fold increase in truck traffic since opening. Concrete pavement was changed to asphalt. New led lightning was installed. I drive through almost daily and I think that it is one of the better from existing tunnel LED lighted tunnels that I have experienced through Europe. Eastern tube will be renovated in summer 2021. Both tubes will be renovated for 8,6 mil. euro + taxes.































__





DARS d.d.






www.dars.si


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There is a trend to paint tunnel interiors white, the next level is lighter texture asphalt so you don't need as much lighting and the tunnel is easier on the eyes of drivers.


----------



## tfd543

What color would that layer have? Greyish?


----------



## keber

Side walls are painted light grey, almost white in above photos. Celilings are not, because paint would peel off pretty soon from existing surface because of water and also would get dirty. I didn't see white ceilings even in new tunnels in Austria, France, Italy or Germany so I don't see that painting ceiling would be "a trend". It is almost impossible to clean ceilings because of all the electrical and other installations. And light gray pavement is probably thing of a past, as newer concrete pavements are quite darker, almost as dark as asphalt. On light gray concrete pavements white or yellow lines are hard to see, especially in wet conditions.


----------



## Uppsala

ChrisZwolle said:


> All set for the boring of the second tube of the Karavanke Tunnel from the Slovenian side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo by DARS



The second tube in the Karawanken Tunnel will be open to traffic in 2024 if all goes well. Then, however, it is intended that the first tube will be closed for two years. So it is not until 2026 that everything is completely complete. So it takes some time.

Actually, this tunnel is similar to the Gotthard Tunnel, which also only has one tube, but a second tube is planned to be expanded. There are in themselves better preparations in the rock for the second tube, but it still takes longer for them to decide on conversion to a second tube.

By the way, this tunnel is the northernmost part of the very important motorway through the former Yugoslavia that starts in Karawanken at the A-border and goes all the way down to Gevgelija in northern Macedonia at the GR-border


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Insane traffic congestion overnight at the Karavanke Tunnel due to Austrian border checks, up to 12 hours delay!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297352390648172544


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> Insane traffic congestion overnight at the Karavanke Tunnel due to Austrian border checks, up to 12 hours delay!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297352390648172544


The most insane thing is that the travellers going back from Croatia are not allowed to stop to take a rest anywhere in Austria.


----------



## MichiH

x-type said:


> The most insane thing is that the travellers going back from Croatia are not allowed to stop to take a rest anywhere in Austria.


Is it necessary after that long break in Slovenia?  Yes, insane. You need to buy food, need water, need to go to a rest room. It's insane that Austria has introduced the check so short-term.....


----------



## x-type

MichiH said:


> Is it necessary after that long break in Slovenia?  Yes, insane. You need to buy food, need water, need to go to a rest room. It's insane that Austria has introduced the check so short-term.....


Maybe to refuel after 12h of stop&go driving


----------



## tfd543

Fuk man. Thats crazy. What about the wurzen pass? Is it still only for A/SLO citizens. Stupid decision. It should be open to everyone for fuk sake.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The 'Promet' account says that Austria was only letting 50 cars/hour through (compared to 700 cars/hour entering Slovenia which already caused 2-3 hour delays). Some report that they drove 4.5 hours for just one kilometer.


----------



## cinxxx

Austria behaves like a banana republic. It's a disgrace!


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> The 'Promet' account says that Austria was only letting 50 cars/hour through (compared to 700 cars/hour entering Slovenia which already caused 2-3 hour delays). Some report that they drove 4.5 hours for just one kilometer.


That was during the day. In the night from saturday to sunday delays were up to 12, some mention even 14h, up to Lesce. Not some distance, but considering slow detailed check of each car it could happen to be 1km/h.


----------



## Shenkey

This is crazy, but Austrian measures have been erratic in last years, so this is not a surprise.

They did same thing before in refugee wave and in first Corona wave, bad policy from Austria is not surprising anymore.


----------



## Eulanthe

x-type said:


> The most insane thing is that the travellers going back from Croatia are not allowed to stop to take a rest anywhere in Austria.


Yes, in theory, though Polish travellers are saying that there's nothing actually stopping you from stopping as there's no set transit routes. The only thing the Austrians care about is that you don't stay overnight.


----------



## tfd543

Eulanthe said:


> Yes, in theory, though Polish travellers are saying that there's nothing actually stopping you from stopping as there's no set transit routes. The only thing the Austrians care about is that you don't stay overnight.


But it has to happen within 12 hrs right? So youre free to stroll around in the given time frame. Thats How I understood it


----------



## x-type

Eulanthe said:


> Yes, in theory, though Polish travellers are saying that there's nothing actually stopping you from stopping as there's no set transit routes. The only thing the Austrians care about is that you don't stay overnight.


Knowing them, it would be very bad for those passengers if Austrian police decided to make some checks at some randomly picked rest areas. They have very fast forgotten Bad Ischgl and their suppressing of that case. ANd it was the main source of the infection in northern and southeastern Europe (and later whole Europe).
Basically, this whole corona thing is one large politic mess. Orban has been begging Hungarians to go to Balaton on vacation, and nowadays he is calmly resting at Mljet. Similar as Slovenian Government's spokeperson Kacin who was very loud about putting Croatia on red list, and after that he was seen having vacation at Krk.

Finally, aren't those 2 photos sad in 21st century?


----------



## stickedy

This will be an expressway from Davograd to Črnomelj over Celje and Novo Mesto?


----------



## Miha889

stickedy said:


> This will be an expressway from Davograd to Črnomelj over Celje and Novo Mesto?


Yes, the entire expressway is partitioned into three parts:
Dravograd - Celje in the north (to be called H8 when built)
Celje - Novo mesto in the middle
Novo Mesto - Črnomelj in the south (to be called H9 when built).

Currently there are tenders out for sections of H8 and H9. The article in post #6960 relates to first works on the H8. However, there are no actions taken by DARS or the Ministry of Infrastructure, which would indicate that the middle part is planned for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Puležan

Why did they choose separate designations for different sections (H8, H9...)? Wouldn't it be more logical and convenient to have one designation for the whole expressway from Slovenj Gradec to Črnomelj? What number will Celje-Novo Mesto section have?


----------



## bortttt

Puležan said:


> Why did they choose separate designations for different sections (H8, H9...)? Wouldn't it be more logical and convenient to have one designation for the whole expressway from Slovenj Gradec to Črnomelj? What number will Celje-Novo Mesto section have?


same for H5 and H6


----------



## MichiH

H89 ?


----------



## Miha889

Puležan said:


> Why did they choose separate designations for different sections (H8, H9...)? Wouldn't it be more logical and convenient to have one designation for the whole expressway from Slovenj Gradec to Črnomelj? What number will Celje-Novo Mesto section have?


Sorry, maybe I was a bit unclear in the post above, this will not be one direct expressway all the way across the country. The current plan is for H8 to join onto A1 in Šentrupert. If you wanted to continue towards Novo mesto and Črnomelj, you would have to take A1 for about 15km before getting on to the middle part which will most likely start at Celje - zahod in the north. Same thing on the south of the section, to get from the middle part to H9 you would have to take A2 for about 3km from Otočec to Novo mesto - vzhod. All in all, this would mean three separate expressways, which would together make up for the third development axis.

Regarding the number I think it depends on when it gets built and weather there are other expressways tendered before it (e.g. if Koper - Dragonja section takes H10, etc.)


----------



## x-type

This is gonna be really specatcular road to drive passing wonderful areas! I am just wondering why CE-NM section didn't get priority (beside SG-CE) because of importance, and traffic volumes. There is really lack of motorway link between Štajerska and Dolenjska.


----------



## Verso

^^ Because it won't be very useful for Ljubljana.



bortttt said:


> same for H5 and H6


H5 will continue from Koper to Dragonja, that's why it has a different number from the Koper–Izola expressway.


----------



## keber

I wrote this almost exactly 18 months ago and there is still no change:


> Third axis is meant for connecting regions within Slovenia. If and when traffic increases enough then maybe more interest from A or CRO will be shown. Be aware that the middle section (connecting A1 to A2) which will be the most difficult (about one quarter of 56 km is on bridges and tunnels with a number of additional retaining walls) is still in early planning phase and probably won't see any construction in min. 15 years and even then it will mostly have just two lanes.


First two sections of H8 and first two sections of H9 will total about 1,3 billion euro, maybe even 1,5 billion, executive design is still not finished for all four sections. Connection points to A and HR are still not decided. Middle part of third axis could cost at least 2 billion euro with just two lanes and therefore it won't be built soon.


----------



## kozorog

🔺Old unverified Information from one of the forum members. In the meantime a lot has changed, the southern part of the third development axis will be four lane at least to Maline, although a two-lane road was planned and it has less traffic than the middle part(on the route Celje-Novo Mesto, transit freight traffic is prohibited due to major congestion), contact with Austria(Holmec and Vič) is determined,... There is no official news that the central part will be two-lane, or that it will not be built for another 15 years! The "prices" are strongly inflated in Slovenia, most of recent projects were built for 50% of the estimated value.


----------



## keber

Actually this "old unverified information" is from the latest variant study proposal (from 2016) and the only one that is approved by the infrastructure ministry. There will be space reservation for 4 lanes. This is visualization of one of the junctions:








Zdaj je jasno, kje bi potegnili tretjo razvojno os – FOTO
I also have all the publicity available drawings and documents on my computer.
Last serious activities for the middle part of third axis were made in 2017 with answering to questions, proposals and appeals from public. But there is more hope with the new government.

Prices in construction have been inflated as any other prices have been inflated in last years. Also newer construction standards also mean more expensive construction. And as I work in the construction of infrastructure objects


----------



## The Wild Boy

Here's an interesting video of the construction of the Karavanke Tunel. 


Fun facts:
Longest tunnel in Slovenia measuring at around 7 kilometers. 
Built during the Yugoslav period, when Slovenia was still in Yugoslavia, and finished when the 10 day war started. 
When it was built it had the top notch and newest technology at that time, and it was the safest tunel in both Yugoslavia (then Slovenia) and in Austria. 

The border crossing point was heavily damaged during the 10 day war in Slovenia, but the tunel itself luckily was not damaged, and remained fine.
So now, I've got a few questions regarding this tunnel, and motorway going through it. 

As Wikipedia says both tunel will be usable by 2026, and that means by 2024 or 2025, the other tube could be completed. 

What's the progress so far on the Austrian, and on the Slovenian side?
And why does the second tube tube look smaller to me? 

Since both sides are using newer tunel boring technology, why will it still take them 6 years, like it took them to finish the first tube? 

And regarding the motorway from the Slovenian side, which some parts of it lack a hard shoulder, is it planned for them to upgrade those sections? 
Starting from here:








46°22'48.0"N 14°08'60.0"E · A2, 4274 Žirovnica, Slovenia


A2, 4274 Žirovnica, Slovenia




maps.app.goo.gl





All the way to the Karavanke Tunnels themselves, as you can see there is a motorway, but it lacks a hard shoulder. 
It'd be good if they upgrade these parts to full motorway, alongside building the 2nd tunnel tube, both which should drastically increase safety.


----------



## keber

The Wild Boy said:


> And regarding the motorway from the Slovenian side, which some parts of it lack a hard shoulder, is it planned for them to upgrade those sections?
> Starting from here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 46°22'48.0"N 14°08'60.0"E · A2, 4274 Žirovnica, Slovenia
> 
> 
> A2, 4274 Žirovnica, Slovenia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> maps.app.goo.gl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All the way to the Karavanke Tunnels themselves, as you can see there is a motorway, but it lacks a hard shoulder.





> What's the progress so far on the Austrian, and on the Slovenian side?


On Austrian side it is almost completely bored through, on Slovenian side boring has just started.



> And why does the second tube tube look smaller to me?


Where did you see that?



> Since both sides are using newer tunel boring technology, why will it still take them 6 years, like it took them to finish the first tube?


Boring technology is the same as 30 years ago. But quality standards are much higher, hence constructions are mostly slower in general.



> It'd be good if they upgrade these parts to full motorway, alongside building the 2nd tunnel tube, both which should drastically increase safety.


Upgrade of the mentioned part is not planned for the foreseeable future as it would involve just too much cost for too little safety gain. Current SOS nichés are adequate. Safety in general on this section is acceptable and there are no bigger problems because of lack of hard shoulders, also traffic is not dense. I think that Austrians also don't plan to add hard shoulders on A11 to Villach.


----------



## Stuu

keber said:


> Boring technology is the same as 30 years ago. But quality standards are much higher, hence constructions are mostly slower in general.


Also safety standards and protection for the workers are much higher, which has been a big reason for construction projects being slower and more costly than in the past


----------



## Shenkey

Stuu said:


> Also safety standards and protection for the workers are much higher, which has been a big reason for construction projects being slower and more costly than in the past


The highway is cut into the mountain, widening would a massive project.

There are many other priorities that are way more urgent.


----------



## Verso

Today finally starts construction of a 4-lane expressway between Velenje and Slovenj Gradec. The first section by Gaberke is 0.2-km-long. 😄 Its cost is 8.5 million EUR without VAT, and deadline is 14 months. It's the "D" section:








source

Location of Gaberke:








OpenStreetMap


OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.




www.openstreetmap.org


----------



## Verso

^^ Exact location 😄:








OpenStreetMap


OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.




www.openstreetmap.org


----------



## ChrisZwolle

DARS reports that the last remaining toll plaza on the Slovenian motorway system will be demolished. It is on A5 at Dragotinci. 

Slovenia used to have an open tolling system with strategically located toll plazas. They switched to a vignette system in 2008, but trucks had to pay tolls at those toll plazas until 2018, when they introduced an electronic truck tolling system (DARS GO). They started demolishing the 32 toll plazas afterwards. Now the last one will be removed, leaving only the toll plaza at the Karavanke Tunnel.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1318173664219664384


----------



## keber

It is interesting to note that many drivers, even after two years, still automatically slow down before old most important toll plazas. There are no extra speed limits now and carriageway is even wider than elsewhere. This often leads to traffic jams before Log toll plaza in heavy traffic (but just on this toll plaza - now occasional Dars and police checkpoint).


----------



## bortttt

keber said:


> It is interesting to note that many drivers, even after two years, still automatically slow down before old most important toll plazas. There are no extra speed limits now and carriageway is even wider than elsewhere. This often leads to traffic jams before Log toll plaza in heavy traffic (but just on this toll plaza - now occasional Dars and police checkpoint).


in Austria there is an obligation to slow down under the portals, 
in Italy under the free-flow portals of the "Pedemontana Lombarda" if you go at more than 100 km/h you have an 80% chance that the telepass will not work


----------



## The Wild Boy

Plus i assume Spain is further far from Germany, Austria (thus requiring a travel by Plane), where as in the case of Croatia you could make it from Germany / Austria by car (you can do the same for Spain's case as well but it's much longer) and you won't need to go though a harder / more complicated process (thus making it easy to arrive at the destination) of ensuring covid safety, compared to a plane. And these years with the ongoing pandemic, you have fewer people who would travel by plane, and instead travel by car. 


This explains why the Karavanke tunnel saw more traffic this year. I also saw increased traffic on Serbia's A1 as the Turks, Romanians, and others preferred to travel by car this year and that has it's own results. 

The Serbo - Hungarian border saw more traffic this year as well. 

Of course maybe Spain had tighter restrictions, that could've contributed as well.


----------



## g.spinoza

The Wild Boy said:


> Of course maybe Spain had tighter restrictions, that could've contributed as well.


I've been vacationing to Spain at the end of September and there were basically no restrictions: nobody in hotels or restaurants asked us for anything, while in France they were much tighter: we were stopped at the French frontier and asked for the green pass and our destination, bot at the Italian and Spanish border. All restaurants in France asked for the pass as well, even when dining outside.
Spain seemed much more relaxed.


----------



## stickedy

Spain or parts of Spain were classified as high-risk area for long time by Germany - with classification changing also often. When you came back to Germany from holiday from high-risk area you had to stick to certain rules e.g. quarantine (rules were also changing over time). Slovenia and Croatia were not classified as such areas...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Tajdabenko said:


> Don't forget the main traffic flow, a large proportion of "guest workers" from the Balkans, who chose airport traffic in the years before the coronavirus, now traveled mostly by car. I cross the Croatian-Slovenian border very often and I don't remember ever seeing so many Turks, the resting places in the direction of Croatia-Austria were literally flooded with them.


Turkish / Balkan travelers likely explain congestion on A2 and A4 towards Croatia, but the roads to and from Istria and Rijeka were also hugely congested at the border crossings, practically the entire summer, and also on working days. In the past this was only really bad on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays.



g.spinoza said:


> Spain seemed much more relaxed.


That was my impression as well, however:



stickedy said:


> Spain or parts of Spain were classified as high-risk area for long time by Germany - with classification changing also often. When you came back to Germany from holiday from high-risk area you had to stick to certain rules e.g. quarantine (rules were also changing over time). Slovenia and Croatia were not classified as such areas...


I think this was a consideration for many people. If you look at the epidemic curve, Spain had a big spike in cases through the summer while Italy and Croatia did not. The incidence rate in Spain was 10 times higher than Italy and Croatia in June, July and most of August.

In addition to Spain being more dependent on tourists via air travel than Italy or Croatia.


----------



## Verso

I went to near Kranj today and half of all traffic were still foreigners (mostly Germans and Austrians).


----------



## alserrod

The Wild Boy said:


> Of course maybe Spain had tighter restrictions, that could've contributed as well.


Just briefly, and providing you can see a different covid-scape in each corner, I would say in Spain all was focused on mask, mask and mask plus high rate on vaccination (AFAIK, top3 countries in EU... after Malta, of couse, were Denmark, Portugal and Spain). I have been in destinations with a lot of local tourism and barely foreing tourism and mask was overall.

Quarantine?. It wasn't on news after every citizen who wanted to travel had its covid-passport. All my friends went to be vaccinated as soon as it was possible and even my teenager daugther went early August.
Thus, I know there are some duties on borders but people do not wonder on them.

In addition, I moved to France for a day this summer and (as I posted on border thread) no controls.





ChrisZwolle said:


> Turkish / Balkan travelers likely explain congestion on A2 and A4 towards Croatia, but the roads to and from Istria and Rijeka were also hugely congested at the border crossings, practically the entire summer, and also on working days. In the past this was only really bad on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays.


Back to Rijeka-Italy.... are they any plans for a motorway through SLO???
Two years ago I would had bought a slovenian vignette just for single journeys if there had been a motorway.


----------



## Slovenia_

alserrod said:


> Back to Rijeka-Italy.... are they any plans for a motorway through SLO???
> Two years ago I would had bought a slovenian vignette just for single journeys if there had been a motorway.


I think not so fast. Firstly they will built highway to Postojna.

And after restrictions we moved a lot of heavy traffic on this corridor and also AADT is very low on this secion. So i think not for government not for motorway company is this section priority.


----------



## alserrod

Do you mean Jelsane-Postojna?

It would worth even for these movements

Anywhere in Italy to Gorizia (instead of Trieste), to Postojna, to Rijeka

Doesn't it fit?


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## Verso

alserrod said:


> Anywhere in Italy to Gorizia (instead of Trieste), to Postojna


There isn't much difference anyway.


----------



## Eulanthe

ChrisZwolle said:


> This was very visible on Google Maps, the Slovenian-Croatian border had extreme traffic congestion throughout the summer, on almost every day.


It was absolutely awful at some points. I was in Cakovec (arrived on Friday, left on Sunday, I'm not silly) before going to Hvar, and on Saturday evening into Sunday morning, there was a 6km jam just to exit Slovenia at Gruskovje, but then the jam stretched to the toll station after Macelj border crossing on the HR side. And this was at 2am!

IMO, Slovenia and Croatia really need to consider increasing capacity at some border crossings. It should be perfectly possible (and easy) to reconfigure the existing crossings so that there's the maximum amount of capacity at peak times. For instance, take the Metlika/Jurovski Brod crossing. It would be very, very easy to configure it so that the crossings in the direction of Croatia use Jurovski Brod, while for entry into Slovenia (and Schengen), the newer Metlika crosing is used. Yet, from what I saw this summer, many lanes simply weren't opened or available. An example was at the Petišovci crossing: they could easily have used the truck lanes to serve as additional capacity for cars while checking Covid passports before reaching the border, but nope, I sat for half an hour while they painfully checked each car in a single line.


----------



## g.spinoza

Eulanthe said:


> IMO, Slovenia and Croatia really need to consider increasing capacity at some border crossings


Croatia has been already green-lit for Schengen accession. I think Croatia could access at the beginning of 2022.
That would eliminate the need for increased capacity at the border crossings.


----------



## tfd543

g.spinoza said:


> Croatia has been already green-lit for Schengen accession. I think Croatia could access at the beginning of 2022.
> That would eliminate the need for increased capacity at the border crossings.


Not without romania and bulgaria. That would wage war politically.. and it wouldnt be fair either..

For the eurozone, yes.. cro is on the verge of getting euro currency.


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## g.spinoza

tfd543 said:


> Not without romania and bulgaria. That would wage war politically.. and it wouldnt be fair either..


Why would that be? If Croatia is ready to access and Bulgaria and Romania aren't, why one should wait for the others? And what do Romania and Bulgaria care, if Croatia accesses?
Besides, I didn't say that Croatia will access in 2022: EU and Croatia said that:









We expect to enter Schengen during 2022


Prime Minister Andrej Plenković said in parliament on Monday, submitting a report on European Council meetings in the past six months, that he expected Croatia to enter the Schengen Area in 2022.




vlada.gov.hr












Slovenia & Portugal Support Croatia’s Schengen Accession - SchengenVisaInfo.com


Slovenian Prime Minister Janez Janša and Portuguese Foreign Minister Augusto Santos Silva have both supported the entry of Croatia into the Schengen Area. The Prime Minister of Slovenia said that the country supports the entry to the Schengen Area for Croatia, Bulgaria, and Romania through an...



www.schengenvisainfo.com





But to be fair, other news sites report 2023 or 2024 as accession dates.


----------



## NaturalExtension

g.spinoza said:


> Why would that be? If Croatia is ready to access and Bulgaria and Romania aren't


Bulgaria has been ready for a long time. The rest is politics.


----------



## cinxxx

g.spinoza said:


> Why would that be? If Croatia is ready to access and Bulgaria and Romania aren't, why one should wait for the others? And what do Romania and Bulgaria care, if Croatia accesses?
> Besides, I didn't say that Croatia will access in 2022: EU and Croatia said that:


RO & BG have fulfilled all requirements for over 10 years and only petty politics, fear of uncontrolled migrants have blocked their access.


----------



## tfd543

g.spinoza said:


> Why would that be? If Croatia is ready to access and Bulgaria and Romania aren't, why one should wait for the others? And what do Romania and Bulgaria care, if Croatia accesses?
> Besides, I didn't say that Croatia will access in 2022: EU and Croatia said that:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We expect to enter Schengen during 2022
> 
> 
> Prime Minister Andrej Plenković said in parliament on Monday, submitting a report on European Council meetings in the past six months, that he expected Croatia to enter the Schengen Area in 2022.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vlada.gov.hr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slovenia & Portugal Support Croatia’s Schengen Accession - SchengenVisaInfo.com
> 
> 
> Slovenian Prime Minister Janez Janša and Portuguese Foreign Minister Augusto Santos Silva have both supported the entry of Croatia into the Schengen Area. The Prime Minister of Slovenia said that the country supports the entry to the Schengen Area for Croatia, Bulgaria, and Romania through an...
> 
> 
> 
> www.schengenvisainfo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But to be fair, other news sites report 2023 or 2024 as accession dates.


Simply cuz Thats not how it works. Its not always based on logic. I follow your reasoning, but these things usually comes in packages ie not single countries.. yes i know cro admission to the eu was a single country case, but thats about it. There are also single country cases before 2000’s..

Im pretty sure all 3 countries Will be let in, but only as a collective. 

Lastly, what would be your argument that cro is ready while the two others arent ?

Im not an expert in the Schengen treaty, but I just look at patterns and how politics works and have worked the past many years.


----------



## g.spinoza

tfd543 said:


> Lastly, what would be your argument that cro is ready while the two others arent ?


I don't have any argument for that. I don't know, and I don't particularly care.
I was just assuming. IF Croatia is ready and the others aren't...


----------



## tfd543

g.spinoza said:


> I don't have any argument for that. I don't know, and I don't particularly care.
> I was just assuming. IF Croatia is ready and the others aren't...


Fair.


----------



## Attus

g.spinoza said:


> I don't have any argument for that. I don't know, and I don't particularly care.
> I was just assuming. IF Croatia is ready and the others aren't...


I see it similar like some other forum members: 
1., It's a political decision, not really depending on which country is ready and which one is not. 
2., BG and RO could have been ready for it for several years. Politically no one want a check free zone from Greece to Western Europe. Everybody is happy that the Greeks suffer of mass immigration and immigrants may not come unchecked to Western Europe.


----------



## Slovenia_

It will be very interesting to see, what will Slovenia do, when Croatia enters Schengen. I mean if we will keep control in entrance to Slovenia, like Austria and Germany do.


----------



## valkrav

Attus said:


> Everybody is happy that the Greeks suffer of mass immigration and immigrants may not come unchecked to Western Europe.


 Do you remember some years ago? All borders were very very transparent for migrans.
And they pass undisturb from Greece via Serbia/Hungary/Austria/etc


----------



## r0k

alserrod said:


> Back to Rijeka-Italy.... are they any plans for a motorway through SLO???
> Two years ago I would had bought a slovenian vignette just for single journeys if there had been a motorway.


Here are some news about motorway connection between Postojna and Jelsane. Construction expected after 2030, zoning plan in progress, troubles expected as locals refuse existing proposals.









Work on Postojna-Jelšane Motorway to Start After 2030


STA, 9 November 2020 - The construction of a motorway between Postojna and Jelšane, for which the government recently launched procedures for the national zoning plan, will start after 2030, the national motorway company DARS said on Monday. The zoning plan is to be adopted at the end of 2027...




www.total-slovenia-news.com


----------



## čarli1

https://www.delo.si/gospodarstvo/novice/gradbeno-dovoljenje-za-del-juznega-dela-tretje-osi/


----------



## Eulanthe

g.spinoza said:


> Croatia has been already green-lit for Schengen accession. I think Croatia could access at the beginning of 2022.
> That would eliminate the need for increased capacity at the border crossings.


It won't happen. There are serious concerns about the Balkan route through Bosnia, and it's much easier to protect Schengen if there's two hard borders to get through - BiH->HR and then HR->SLO/H. Then there's the 'can't join without Romania and Bulgaria' issue, which will complicate things further. 

Croatia, like Romania and Bulgaria, will probably stay permanently in the 'ready but not a member' zone until the entire Western Balkans can be admitted to Schengen.

In the meantime, the queues will simply get worse and worse. There's a desperate need to find a technical solution for next summer, and the EU really should be putting pressure on Slovenia and Croatia to use what infrastructure they have.


----------



## stickedy

The problem is not the controls themselves, but that they simply just don't open all available lanes! But maybe Croatia is in serious lack of border police officers since that's also the problem at the HR-MNE border entering Croatia since years. This August there was a queue down the hill back till the Montenegrin border post... That's about 4 km.

And the same of course at the HR-SLO border: One lane open e.g. at Jurovski Brod (Metlika), waiting time around one hour. And they didn't even check the Corona stuff, just scanning passports/IDs.


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## keber

čarli1 said:


> View attachment 2239270
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.delo.si/gospodarstvo/novice/gradbeno-dovoljenje-za-del-juznega-dela-tretje-osi/


Summary for non Slovenian speakers - a construction permit was obtained for the first part of H9 expressway at Novo mesto (black section in above map on right side). It did take very long for permit - it should be obtained already in late 2019/early 2020 but then some NIMBY's protested and slowed the process (which was the also slowed with the pandemic). This has now been settled.
First part of construction tender was already published in 2019 and capable contractors were chosen (5 out of 7). In next weeks they will present their price offers and the cheapest contractor will be chosen. Works should then start in spring 2022 and should take 2.5 years.
Second part of H9 (yellow and green in the map), including 2.4 km long tunnel, is currently in process of detailed design.


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## SRC_100

IMO Slovenia have to do what is the most important for their citizens in respect of transportation and don't look at the interests and benefits of other states/countries


----------



## Shenkey

Problem was that DARS 10 years ago had a huge debt load and could not fiance any more new construction. Due to that there is now a huge backlog of necessary renovation and construction, "would be nice to have" corridors have to wait.

This is from their website in 2013




__





DARS d.d.






www.dars.si




Debt of 2.8 billion with 300 million revenue.
And the state back then could finance at exorbitant rates of 5%, which basically means that any state backed company (DARS) had even worse access to capital.

PS:
news from 2018:




__





Dars bo zmanjševal svoj dolg


Predsednik uprave Darsa Tomaž Vidic je napovedal, da se bo Dars do konca leta razdolžil za 220 milijonov evrov, naslednje leto pa še za 210 milijonov.




www.dnevnik.si




Debt of 2.3 bill and revenue of 450 million.


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## divinglatte

Shenkey said:


> Problem was that DARS 10 years ago had a huge debt load and could not fiance any more new construction. Due to that there is now a huge backlog of necessary renovation and construction, "would be nice to have" corridors have to wait.
> 
> This is from their website in 2013
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DARS d.d.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dars.si
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Debt of 2.8 billion with 300 million revenue.
> And the state back then could finance at exorbitant rates of 5%, which basically means that any state backed company (DARS) had even worse access to capital.
> 
> PS:
> news from 2018:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dars bo zmanjševal svoj dolg
> 
> 
> Predsednik uprave Darsa Tomaž Vidic je napovedal, da se bo Dars do konca leta razdolžil za 220 milijonov evrov, naslednje leto pa še za 210 milijonov.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dnevnik.si
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Debt of 2.3 bill and revenue of 450 million.


Last year DARS had a debt of 1.89 billion and revenue of 417 million.


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## keber

About 65% of the revenue goes to debt repayment. The rest goes to everything else, including maintenance, renovations, reconstructions and new projects, like Karavanke tunnel, third axis expressway and all other future connections (H5 and A6). EU funds are practically non existent.


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## g.spinoza

Greetings from Zgornje Jezersko 🙂


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## tfd543

g.spinoza said:


> Greetings from Zgornje Jezersko


What are you doing there? Vacation ?


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## g.spinoza

tfd543 said:


> What are you doing there? Vacation ?


Science meeting I organized.


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## tfd543

g.spinoza said:


> Science meeting I organized.


Good location.


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## Tajdabenko

Yesterday, a tender was published for the construction of the most demanding section of the third development axis (lots C and E) between Velenje and Slovenj Gradec in the total value of 335 million euros. The 10-kilometer-long section will be adorned with 12 viaducts and 2 tunnels, see visualizations of the Odraž viaduct and the Pusta Gora tunnel below.























SLOVENIJA | Tretja razvojna os / Third development axis


Tretja razvojna os https://www.dars.si/Infrastrukturni_projekti/Tretja_razvojna_os Izraz tretja razvojna os pomeni prometno povezavo, ki bo v prihodnosti potekala od severne proti jugovzhodni Sloveniji (od meje z Avstrijo do meje s Hrvaško). Del povezave sta tudi novi državni cesti od...




www.skyscrapercity.com




Source: Infopot


----------



## Tajdabenko

keber said:


> Summary for non Slovenian speakers - a construction permit was obtained for the first part of H9 expressway at Novo mesto (black section in above map on right side). It did take very long for permit - it should be obtained already in late 2019/early 2020 but then some NIMBY's protested and slowed the process (which was the also slowed with the pandemic). This has now been settled.
> First part of construction tender was already published in 2019 and capable contractors were chosen (5 out of 7). In next weeks they will present their price offers and the cheapest contractor will be chosen. Works should then start in spring 2022 and should take 2.5 years.
> Second part of H9 (yellow and green in the map), including 2.4 km long tunnel, is currently in process of detailed design.


Highway Bridge and parallel Pedestrian Bridge over Krka River



https://www.ponting.si/en/projects/highway-bridge-and-parallel-pedestrian-bridge-over-krka-river-97.html


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## cinxxx

g.spinoza said:


> Greetings from Zgornje Jezersko 🙂


I actually drove on that route from Austria to Slovenia and further to Croatia in August this year. 
Nice landscape.


----------



## Tajdabenko

For trucks over 7.5 tonnes, overtaking will now be prohibited on all motorways and expressways, not just the A1 motorway. The ban will take effect in November and will be in effect every day between 6 am and 6 pm. Heavy trucks will be able to continue to overtake at night.



__ https://www.facebook.com/Vozimo.pametno/posts/4626798027386035


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## Tajdabenko

A tender for the construction of the Ormož-Gorišnica-Markovci expressway in the length of 16 km is in progress. Construction work is expected to begin in the spring 2022.


----------



## MichiH

Tajdabenko said:


> A tender for the construction of the Ormož-Gorišnica-Markovci expressway in the length of 16 km is in progress. Construction work is expected to begin in the spring 2022.
> View attachment 2299399


Expressway? Looks like a grade-separated 2-laned road only. And it ends in the middle of nowhere at west end... Is a continuation to A4 being planned?


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## keber

Yes, continuation is planned. Problem is Natura 2000 area south of (artificial) Ptuj lake. Therefore final variant will go north of the lake, also through villages and towns. It will be 2-laned expressway, trucks will be tolled.
EDIT: Found the map of variants - one of red variants will be chosen.








_(source)_


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## Tajdabenko

A tender for the modernization of all highway small rest areas is underway. Smaller project, but in my opinion important, because Slovenia has received quite a few criticisms and poor reviews from foreign automotive associations for the condition of small rest areas.

example







Also a demolition and new construction and extension of the rest area Barje(north and south) begin in the spring.



https://www.avto.info/Obvestila/Novogradnja_skupaj_z_Marche_McDonalds_ter_Dars/


----------



## Tajdabenko

Electronic vignettes-Slovenia introduces as early as December Data d.o.o.


Electronic vignettes are mandatory for vehicles up to 3.5 t passing in Slovenia. Learn more about the new digital version of the vingnette and its benefits.




data.si


----------



## tfd543

Tajdabenko said:


> Electronic vignettes-Slovenia introduces as early as December Data d.o.o.
> 
> 
> Electronic vignettes are mandatory for vehicles up to 3.5 t passing in Slovenia. Learn more about the new digital version of the vingnette and its benefits.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> data.si


Cool! Is that for regular vehicles ? (Not trucks)


----------



## keber

Yes. There will be similar system as in Hungary, Slovakia, Romania or Czechia.
Because of some problems first two months weekly and monthly vignettes will be still sold as paper, after February all vignettes will be digital. You will be able to buy them also via mobile apps or on special website.
After May also all controls will be abolished, and fines for not using vignettes will be sent by mail - or if a foreigner they will try to stop you before border.


----------



## Tajdabenko




----------



## Tajdabenko

Highway police













Policija - Avtocestna policija prevzela štiri nova, visoko zmogljiva vozila


Slovenska Policija




www.policija.si


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## Tajdabenko

Parking of heavy vehicles at motorway rest areas is now limited to 25 hours

DARS d.d.


----------



## Attus

Is heavy traffic allowed Sundays in Slovenia? If not, does it mean, that long distance traffic must avoid the country Sundays?


----------



## keber

Heavy traffic is not allowed on Sundays between 8 and 21h. It is similar in Italy and Austria.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The EU has adopted legislation that weekend rest cannot be taken in a truck. Officially the company must provide a hotel or a return trip to home to take the mandatory weekend rest. However this does not work in practice (whoa big surprise!)


----------



## Attus

ChrisZwolle said:


> The EU has adopted legislation that weekend rest cannot be taken in a truck.


Yes, you're right, I forgot it, thank you.


----------



## DrivingAroundSlovenia

A video, how Slovenian motorways look like on a busy workday (not sunday).


----------



## Uksi

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1460889754690588675


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## Christophorus

^^ finally!


----------



## Uksi

An unusual scene on Slovenian motorways: 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1462761897766363143
Translation: The retired police boat was transported from Koper to the Park of Military History in Pivka. The transport of the 44 t heavy and 20 m long vessel took 9 hours. This is what the action on the part of Coastal motorway (Gabrk - Divača) looked like, the motorway was closed for a short time.👏🏽


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## Slovenia_

280 Verkaufsstellen bieten ab 1. Dezember 2021 neue slowenische E-Vignette an | ASFINAG


In Slowenien wird im kommenden Jahr die digitale Autobahnvignette die bisherige Klebevignette ersetzen.




www.asfinag.at





If u drive from Austria to Slovenia you will be able to buy e-sticker for Slovenia already in Austria. The best thing is that on ASFINAG digital vignette machines you will be able to buy also Slovenian sticker.


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## ChrisZwolle

I wonder if there is really demand for such a service if you can just purchase it online (in advance or in the moment).


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## keber

Many people, especially eldery, are not used of online shopping. Many also don't have credit cards.


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## Slovenia_

I think it is. If u look Slovakia. 50% of e-vignettes are sold on points of sale not on internet. I think in Slovenia % will be higher (due to more foreign traffic).

So if we say that 60% will be sold on points of sale, that means around 4,5 million/per year vignettes will be sold there.


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## ChrisZwolle

keber said:


> Many people, especially eldery, are not used of online shopping. Many also don't have credit cards.


That's a fair point for the domestic users, but I suppose international travelers are a bit more tech-savvy, even among the older people who still drive to another country.


----------



## keber

Looking every year at the toll booths long queues in Italy, Austria or Croatia, where a lot of people rather pay by cash and not cards, I could say that Slovenians are quite advanced at paying options. I'm always baffeld that so many people like to wait extra 10 or 15 minute to pay the toll in cash despite having card only lanes completely empty. Germans seem to be the leading nation here by my experience.
Still, having just online paying posibility for tollls is not yet possible in today's Europe.


----------



## Stuu

keber said:


> Germans seem to be the leading nation here by my experience.


I once spent three hours in a queue for a French toll, caused by Germans (and quite a few Dutch) queueing for the single cash gate and not using any of the card-only gates. Crazy. What is the thinking?


----------



## g.spinoza

Stuu said:


> I once spent three hours in a queue for a French toll, caused by Germans (and quite a few Dutch) queueing for the single cash gate and not using any of the card-only gates. Crazy. What is the thinking?


"Uh, they want to track my movements, I want my privacy" not realizing that they are being filmed countless times during the trip.


----------



## MichiH

Stuu said:


> What is the thinking?


Nur Bares is Wahres! = Only cash is genuine!

It's not my thinking though.....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

MichiH said:


> Nur Bares is Wahres! = Only cash is genuine!


This still seems to be valid for small purchases in Southern Europe (in bars, cafes, etc.) Maybe also a way to keep some taxable revenue off the books.

But Germans also like cash for larger purchases. Tolls will be increasingly cashless in the future. It also makes you wonder if Germans are keen to adopt electric vehicles since these cannot be charged with cash payments. Germany also seems to have far fewer cardlock fuel stations than the Netherlands or even France.


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## g.spinoza

ChrisZwolle said:


> This still seems to be valid for small purchases in Southern Europe (in bars, cafes, etc.) Maybe also a way to keep some taxable revenue off the books.


That's different. In this case electronic payment is discouraged by the business owners. That's because fees on electronic transations are quite high, and eat all the profit for small purchases.
I don't know if that's the same in other countries too.


----------



## x-type

g.spinoza said:


> That's different. In this case electronic payment is discouraged by the business owners. That's because fees on electronic transations are quite high, and eat all the profit for small purchases.
> I don't know if that's the same in other countries too.


But coffee still costs €1,10 in Italy at Autogrill, and in Germany it is somewhat like €3, right? And at Autogrill you can pay with card. It is more like habbit.


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## MichiH

g.spinoza said:


> That's different. In this case electronic payment is discouraged by the business owners. That's because fees on electronic transations are quite high, and eat all the profit for small purchases.
> I don't know if that's the same in other countries too.


Exactly! I still need cash in Germany because (most) bakeries and the ice cream parlors only accept cash here. Insane!

It was much worse pre-pandemic.


----------



## g.spinoza

x-type said:


> But coffee still costs €1,10 in Italy at Autogrill, and in Germany it is somewhat like €3, right? And at Autogrill you can pay with card. It is more like habbit.


Autogrill has very large shoulders.
I was referring to small business, like neighbourhood cafes. Some of them won't accept cards for just a coffee.
Just today I stopped to buy some bread at the bakery round the corner. I had to pay something like 3 € but realized I had only a 50 € bill. The lady at the desk looked at me strange and said "as I don't have change for that, better by card, if you have no alternatives..."


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## x-type

g.spinoza said:


> Autogrill has very large shoulders.
> I was referring to small business, like neighbourhood cafes. Some of them won't accept cards for just a coffee.
> Just today I stopped to buy some bread at the bakery round the corner. I had to pay something like 3 € but realized I had only a 50 € bill. The lady at the desk looked at me strange and said "as I don't have change for that, better by card, if you have no alternatives..."


Oh, that. Yeah, happens here as well. Probably 95% of bars and bakeries won't accept card here. Kiosks have changed, they mostly accept it.


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## Attus

MichiH said:


> Exactly! I still need cash in Germany because (most) bakeries and the ice cream parlors only accept cash here. Insane!


The worst for me is parking fee. Those machines only accept coins, and (unlike bakeries) they don't change, so that you must have the exact amount in coins. 
I cheated once in Leverkusen. I did not want to but I did not have more coins, so I inserted all coins I had and hoped no one will check my car in the last 40 minutes that were not paid...


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## Stuu

g.spinoza said:


> That's different. In this case electronic payment is discouraged by the business owners. That's because fees on electronic transations are quite high, and eat all the profit for small purchases.
> I don't know if that's the same in other countries too.


In the UK there are a number of smaller providers who offer a very cheap service. Sumup is used by lots of small vendors like coffee stands or ice cream - they charge 1.69% on any transaction which is less than the cost of going to the bank and paying the money in, which of course all small businesses do with all their cash and never keep out of their books. It's very rare now to find shops not accepting cards, takeaway food places often didn't in the past but now they all use deliveroo or uber eats or whatever they need to be able to take cards


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## Stuu

Attus said:


> The worst for me is parking fee. Those machines only accept coins, and (unlike bakeries) they don't change, so that you must have the exact amount in coins.
> I cheated once in Leverkusen. I did not want to but I did not have more coins, so I inserted all coins I had and hoped no one will check my car in the last 40 minutes that were not paid...


In the UK virtually every car park has the option to pay by app/internet. They often charge a very small fee, £0.15 or something, but it's so much less hassle than trying to find change


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## g.spinoza

Stuu said:


> In the UK there are a number of smaller providers who offer a very cheap service. Sumup is used by lots of small vendors like coffee stands or ice cream - they charge 1.69% on any transaction which is less than the cost of going to the bank and paying the money in, which of course all small businesses do with all their cash and never keep out of their books. It's very rare now to find shops not accepting cards, takeaway food places often didn't in the past but now they all use deliveroo or uber eats or whatever they need to be able to take cards


Sumup is starting to catch on in Italy too. Some banks also do not charge for small enough transations (the baker in front of my workplace told me he gladly accepts cards because they charge nothing to him).
The leader in Italy I think is Satispay: it's a mobile app, transations are free under 10 € and cost 20 ¢ over that threshold.


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## AnelZ

I just wanted to say that. Yes, you avoid the charge for transaction when the customer pays with card (in Bosnia and Herzegovina it is around 3% if I remember correctly) but according to law you have to deposit the cash which is in the register at the bank which also costs money + the security risk. On the other hand, I'm aware that owners of the shops (at least over here) just take that money home for which they didn't issue bills and keep it off the books. They use that cash as personal money and/or pay the rest of the wage of their workers in "envelope" (as we call it here) i.e. they register workers on minimum wage but pay out sometimes once more that amount in cash and as such avoid paying taxes and contributions for that part of the wage.


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## keber

E- vignette is now operational as of today.
Currently you can buy only a yearly (or 365-day) e-vignette, monthly and weekly e-vignettes will be available in February 2022, until then you will need to buy a sticker. E-vignette can be bought up to 30 days in advance and until validity starts you can change licence plate designation.
You can buy e-vignette in shops and gas stations and on website:


https://evinjeta.dars.si/selfcare/en


There will be also a mobile app available.


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## stickedy

AnelZ said:


> On the other hand, I'm aware that owners of the shops (at least over here) just take that money home for which they didn't issue bills and keep it off the books. They use that cash as personal money and/or pay the rest of the wage of their workers in "envelope" (as we call it here) i.e. they register workers on minimum wage but pay out sometimes once more that amount in cash and as such avoid paying taxes and contributions for that part of the wage.


You can be sure that this is done everywhere on earth  This is why a lot of governments enforce issuing bills for everything


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## x-type

Can somebody tell me what was the price of implementation od DarsGO system 3 years ago? I cannot find that information on the internet.


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## kreden

According to the Court of Audit, the costs of implementation were 144 million euro so far, including the cost of modifying and removing old toll barriers. Revizija


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## DrivingAroundSlovenia

Here is one latest video of part of A1 highway (Ljubljana - Koper). It was shot on 1.1.2022.


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## DrivingAroundSlovenia

One more. Ajdovska higway this time. H4 expressway


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## ASB298

Hey guys, I'll be driving to France next month, deciding if I'll drive from Slovakia to Italy via Austria or Slovenia. What would you recommend, is there speed tolerance in Slovenia for not giving speeding ticket? And is it better to cross border off the highway so I don't stand in traffic queue? Thanks guys


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## r0k

Popular belief is that up to 150 you will not get fined, anyway, traffic on motorway A1 is usually dense, sometimes even 130 is a good achievement. But Austrian motorways are more annoying for driving, a lot of speed limits, changing all the time, much more radars as well.

For traffic conditions, check https://promet.si/en or Google maps, and make a decision just before reaching the border. Anyway, I don’t think border crossing on A1 with Austria will be jammed, it’s a motorway, with no stopping, no control, no toll ticket. Btw, make sure to buy SI vignette, you can do that onlinehttps://evinjeta.dars.si/en


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## x-type

ASB298 said:


> Hey guys, I'll be driving to France next month, deciding if I'll drive from Slovakia to Italy via Austria or Slovenia. What would you recommend, is there speed tolerance in Slovenia for not giving speeding ticket? And is it better to cross border off the highway so I don't stand in traffic queue? Thanks guys


Speed cameras are always indicated on signs, so pay attention on them. And they happen in 130 as well in 100 zones. I always keep my cruise control on 140 and 110 and never got fine. Of course, if the traffic conditions allow those speeds (as r0k says A1 motorway is overcrowded during the day in its complete length).


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## ASB298

r0k said:


> Popular belief is that up to 150 you will not get fined, anyway, traffic on motorway A1 is usually dense, sometimes even 130 is a good achievement. But Austrian motorways are more annoying for driving, a lot of speed limits, changing all the time, much more radars as well.
> 
> For traffic conditions, check https://promet.si/en or Google maps, and make a decision just before reaching the border. Anyway, I don’t think border crossing on A1 with Austria will be jammed, it’s a motorway, with no stopping, no control, no toll ticket. Btw, make sure to buy SI vignette, you can do that onlinehttps://evinjeta.dars.si/en


Thanks for the link to vignette!

I was thinking to skip Austria altogether and drive from Slovakia via Hungary (I have HU vignette) to Rédics/Dolga Vas on H7 and A5 to Maribor then
Option 1: A1 to Razdrto and H4 to Italy
Option 2: A1 to Koper/Portoroz (to check it out for sleepover) or Trieste (what would you recommend?)

Price of the fuel in Hungary is lowcost now (so I would get fuel there on the way) and what about Slovenia? I found prices of 1,60€, is that correct? Because then I would get full tank before entering Italy.

Austrian highways are annoying to me too!!  Because it is always changing speed limit and everyone slows down always, so the traffic is less dynamic.

In Slovakia you get 50€ ticket if mobile radar or stationary radar car parked near road (we don't have any fixed radar cameras at all) takes photo of you if you drive up to +30kmh outside of the cities. So if traffic allows you can drive 160, and up to 150 I never got fine. But usually +10 so 140 is what most of the drivers do (or slower to save fuel consumption which I do too if I don't need to rush into destination).


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## r0k

Fuel is cheaper in SI then in Italy, by a lot, so definitely top up in SI. Liter costs you here a bit more than 1.6€, yes, if you fill outside the highways, on highway it’s roughly 10 cent more.


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## r0k

Fines for motorways are somewhat similar here then:

Up to 20 km/h = 40 EUR
 20 km/h to 30 km/h = 60 EUR
 30 km/h to 40 km/h = 120 EUR
40 km/h to 50 km/h = 250 EUR + 3 points
50 km/h to 60 km/h = 400 EUR + 5 points
Above 60 km/h = 1.200 EUR + 9 point


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## ASB298

r0k said:


> Fines for motorways are somewhat similar here then:
> 
> Up to 20 km/h = 40 EUR
> 20 km/h to 30 km/h = 60 EUR
> 30 km/h to 40 km/h = 120 EUR
> 40 km/h to 50 km/h = 250 EUR + 3 points
> 50 km/h to 60 km/h = 400 EUR + 5 points
> Above 60 km/h = 1.200 EUR + 9 point


Yeah, we don't have points here but if you go above 60 three time per year you will need to take driving licence exams again etc.. until third time (two times within the year) you can drive as fast as possible, like in Germany (if you find straight section of the road) and they can't take your licence, maximum fine is 800€. But above 30kmh it goes up quickly, similar as in SI then.


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## Slovenia_

Warning!

If you will come to Slovenia or pass it and if you want to buy vignette online do it *ONLY here*:
https://evinjeta.dars.si/en (official DARS page)

There exist a lot of "second" pages, where you will pay provision (5 eur or more).

You can still buy vignette on gas stations, border crossing, ADAC, etc.. (like before)
If you will buy it there, i advise to do it before the border (e.g. if you coming from Austria, buy it on some gas station there), because there are waiting times on border shops (in rush traffic you can wait 1 hour). 

And check very carefully the dates (your registration number, country of registration and toll class) before signed it. If there is some mistake you can pay 300 eur fine!


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## ChrisZwolle

I finally made it to the Črni Kal Viaduct. It is part of A1 in Western Slovenia, it is the longest and highest bridge in the country, it opened to traffic in 2004.


Črni Kal Viaduct 05 by European Roads, on Flickr


Črni Kal Viaduct 08 by European Roads, on Flickr


Črni Kal Viaduct 15 by European Roads, on Flickr


Črni Kal Viaduct 17 by European Roads, on Flickr


Črni Kal Viaduct 19 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## The Wild Boy

I've heard that it was designed by the same guy who designed the Peljesac Bridge, and that similar materials were used on the Peljesac Bridge, am i correct here?

And there should be another rail viaduct under it, which will make it even more impressive.


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## sponge_bob

Very like the Pocitelj under construction in Bosnia or else the Italia viaduct...the original of the species if you ask me


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## keber

The Wild Boy said:


> I've heard that it was designed by the same guy who designed the Peljesac Bridge, and that similar materials were used on the Peljesac Bridge, am i correct here?
> 
> And there should be another rail viaduct under it, which will make it even more impressive.


There will be two viaducts under the motorway (separate right and left track, second will be built few years later), both of the same design and designer, which designed above bridge, Pelješac bridge and many others. Railway viaducts won't look like motorway viaduct though.


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## The Wild Boy

keber said:


> There will be two viaducts under the motorway (separate right and left track, second will be built few years later), both of the same design and designer, which designed above bridge, Pelješac bridge and many others. Railway viaducts won't look like motorway viaduct though.


Interesting. I thought that they would only build one new railway line, and use the existing railway tracks.

Sorry for going a little off - topic, but has this been since the beginning of that project, or has it changed with the change of the government? I also heard that there were plans for a second karawanke rail tunnel, but after 2040's (as wikipedia says)...

It's good to see that Slovenia is finally investing into alternatives. Time to reduce those numbers from the roads, and offer the people more choice! Great move.


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## Festin

I am trying to validate if I have the correct the links for buying the vignette online, and for Slovenia, I was wondering if this is the correct official site: https://evinjeta.dars.si/en ?


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## divinglatte

Festin said:


> I am trying to validate if I have the correct the links for buying the vignette online, and for Slovenia, I was wondering if this is the correct official site: https://evinjeta.dars.si/en ?


Yes, it is. : )


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## Festin

divinglatte said:


> Yes, it is. : )


Thanks for the quick answer


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## Verso

The Wild Boy said:


> And there should be another rail viaduct under it, which will make it even more impressive.


You can already see construction works on the photos (preparations for a tunnel right after a viaduct).


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## keber

The Wild Boy said:


> Interesting. I thought that they would only build one new railway line, and use the existing railway tracks.
> 
> Sorry for going a little off - topic, but has this been since the beginning of that project, or has it changed with the change of the government? I also heard that there were plans for a second karawanke rail tunnel, but after 2040's (as wikipedia says)...
> 
> It's good to see that Slovenia is finally investing into alternatives. Time to reduce those numbers from the roads, and offer the people more choice! Great move.


Currently the right railway track is being built. Around 2027 or 2028 the left track construction should start so the old railway can be closed and converted to spectacular cycle road.


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## x-type

Only on narrow sections? I have noticed them on normal R roads. And it isn't that new, at least 1 year old. I kinda like it. 

Do you know something about that green thing? Should it be like in the Netherlands refering to a speed limit or what?


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## keber

Usage of side lines is strictly defined in traffic signalization code:


http://www.pisrs.si/Pis.web/pregledPredpisa?id=PRAV11505


where in article 32 it says (under number 5122) that side dashed lines are used where road widt is at least 4,50 m. If road width is at least 5,50 m or more also middle separation line is used. If it 6,50 m or more, continuous side line is used. All existing markings have to be in accordance to code rules until 2026.

Green middle line (or area) is not defined in the code but I assume it is still in a testing phase that could get into the code sooner or later. There is a new roundabout near Ljubljana that uses them and it is already on Streetview:








 Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.com




They are used to separate traffic lanes more visibly before an approaching roundabout.


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## Verso

Here, the colors are reversed.


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## ChrisZwolle

I took some photos of the bridges in Dravograd. Dravograd is a town in northern Slovenia, on the Drava River, near the Austrian border. Main roads G1 and G4 intersect here. G4 crosses the Drava River (direction Celje) while G1 travels eastbound to Maribor.

The pedestrian/bicycle bridge used to be an abandoned,semi-collapsed rail bridge, which was decommissioned in 1965 but never removed. It was rebuilt in 2015 to its current state.


Dravograd bridges 01 by European Roads, on Flickr


Dravograd bridges 04 by European Roads, on Flickr


Dravograd bridges 07 by European Roads, on Flickr


Dravograd bridges 12 by European Roads, on Flickr


Dravograd bridges 15 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## valkrav

Yesterday I drove throught A5-A1-H4
Slovenian motorways is washboard,  in one word
There is a lot of rests of erased temporary markings


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## keber

Temporary markings are usually made with removable thermoplast strips. Glue remains are the only thing that stay visible for few months.


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## ChrisZwolle

Blue E-numbers in Maribor.

And TERN, will this replace SNV as the standard typeface on Slovenian road signs? Now that I think of it, I don't recall seeing it elsewhere.


Maribor 01 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## keber

I don't know a story behind this sign, but surely it has wrong typeface. Road was partly renovated at least 10 years ago, Google SW 2013 also took picture of it. Luckily no TERN is planned in future. This sign has dangerous stiff supports which are also not allowed. It is on local road at shopping center of an Austrian owner, maybe they actually paid or even installed this sign and nobody took care to check if it conforms to regulations.


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## Verso

I saw that sign over 9 years ago.


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## ChrisZwolle

I took some photos of the Vršič Pass.

Why are the hairpin turns on the north side cobblestones?


Vršič Pass 06 by European Roads, on Flickr


Vršič Pass 08 by European Roads, on Flickr


Vršič Pass 14 by European Roads, on Flickr


Vršič Pass 21 by European Roads, on Flickr

Boxed in

Vršič Pass 26 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## italystf

I think because maybe in the past it was difficult to lay asphalt or concrete on such steep gradients.
Some very steep roads near Trieste such as Scala Santa, Via dei Baiardi, or Via Clivo Artemisio do have cobblestone on most steep parts.


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## Verso

I think it's because of better friction. And it's colder on the northern side than on the southern (Mediterranean) side.


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## ChrisZwolle

That was my assumption as well. There are no cobblestones on the south side. But the pass is not kept open in the winter. 

Most of the pass is also pretty densely forested, so not much sunshine would make it to the pavement to melt snow and ice.


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## italystf

Has it always been closed in winter?
Because it's the only road link between Soca and Sava valleys (i.e. between Bovec and Kranjska Gora areas). Now it's not a big deal to go via Italy, but before UE and Schengen, and especially in the tense post-WWII years, it was very different. The only alternative was a very long detour via Kranj and Jesenice.


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## keber

Friction is much worse on cobblestones than on asphalt. Road which is a technical monument was constructed during WW1 by Russian captured soldiers. It was constructed for military purposes, on the base of a previous road. It was later paved with cobblestones from north side which was preferable way of paving in history. 
Road was fully asphalted in 1960ies when some African despot visited Yugoslavia and President Tito gave jim a ride over Vršič pass.
As cobblestones are not really suitable for today traffic they were preserved just in tight turns, for historical reasons and also for purpose to reduce speeds. Road will be renovated next year in the similar style to the top. 

Road is usually closed in the winter because of high danger of avalanches. In stable winter conditions with not much snow 
(like previous winter) it is open in good weather. 
There are some vague plans to build a tunnel or galleries to allow traffic through whole winter. As the pass is in the middle of a national park and also of difficult geology and hydrology, those plans are not very advanced and it is still a long way.


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## MichiH

ChrisZwolle said:


> Why are the hairpin turns on the north side cobblestones?


I saw the same anywhere in Belgium a week ago.


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## Verso

italystf said:


> Has it always been closed in winter?


Yes, it's always been closed in winter, so you've always had to go through Italy or all around Bohinj.


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## Verso

keber said:


> Road was fully asphalted in 1960ies when some African despot visited Yugoslavia and President Tito gave jim a ride over Vršič pass.


That was in 1959 when Tito made a road trip with the Ethiopian emperor Haile Selassie.


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## ChrisZwolle

Has A1 traffic reached a breaking point? I've noticed this traffic pattern of slow or stopped traffic quite often on A1 southwest of Ljubljana. I passed through there in June, I can't recall there being construction. Google Maps also doesn't show construction there.


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## sponge_bob

@ChrisZwolle that would be a good example of ASDT , the normal July-August peak along the Adriatic


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## ChrisZwolle

R206 in the Soča Valley between the Vršič Pass and Bovec. It has some nice views on the Triglav massif.


R206 Trenta - Bovec 01 by European Roads, on Flickr


R206 Trenta - Bovec 02 by European Roads, on Flickr


R206 Trenta - Bovec 04 by European Roads, on Flickr


R206 Trenta - Bovec 06 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## yohaniv

Couple of km up the road today.

Nope.


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## ChrisZwolle

Road numbers on exit signage on A1 between Ljubljana and Koper. Apparently these were added in the mid 2010s. They are mostly very small though.


A1 Ljubljana - Koper 24 by European Roads, on Flickr


A1 Ljubljana - Koper 27 by European Roads, on Flickr


A1 Ljubljana - Koper 32 by European Roads, on Flickr


A1 Ljubljana - Koper 37 by European Roads, on Flickr


A1 Ljubljana - Koper 50 by European Roads, on Flickr


A1 Ljubljana - Koper 72 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## keber

x-type said:


> Even if it would reach Dragonja for some miracle, no way to connect it from HR side with an express road due to terrain (too large ascent on too short distance).


There is about 95 meters height difference over 2,5 km, according to Google Earth. Average ascent of 4% should be nothing impossible for an expressway.


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## x-type

keber said:


> There is about 95 meters height difference over 2,5 km, according to Google Earth. Average ascent of 4% should be nothing impossible for an expressway.


1700m actually since the ascent starts from the bridge over Dragonja. Also, in the first 600 metres the road reaches 50m asl, what makes it close to 10%. But you're right, it could be done fair enough not to be too steep, there should be one shorter viaduct built.
Driving there it always looks incredibly steep to me, probably because of wonderful view on Sečovlje plain.


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## Verso

A steep 4-lane road (expressway) is still better than a steep 3-lane road, isn't it?


----------



## Ni3lS

Sunset on the A4 today:


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## Attus

A2 reaches the intersection with H3 through a tunnel (Šentvid tunnel). At this intersection, in order to turtn to H3 (eastbound) you have to make a 180 degrees turn. 
How was it before the opening of the Šentvid tunnel (what is actually not a single tunnel but a complex of one long and four short tunnels)? I drove there a few times in the late '90's and early 2000's, but I'm not sure about it. I think A2 did not reach the motorway ring of Ljlubjana at all but terminated at Celovška cesta, and the western bypass has not yet been seignated as A2. But I may be terribly wrong  
And I'm sure A1, too, did not reach Ljubljana, and traffic ran through Vir and Domžale. Was it the current route 447 - 104, or something different? 

Slovenia uses now German-like motorway number symbols, but in green. However, unlike in Germany and in Switzerland (the same symbol in red), Slovenia uses the "A", too, in the symbol, not only the number. Since when does Slovenia use this symbol? I think it used to be much simpler, andtoday I was this sign (Google Streetview) that confirms it.


----------



## Attus

Another thing what I founw weird: every crossings, even the ones of narrow roads in villages with very light traffic, have controlled priority through yield or Stop signs. Is there any reason for that?


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## italystf

Attus said:


> Another thing what I founw weird: every crossings, even the ones of narrow roads in villages with very light traffic, have controlled priority through yield or Stop signs. Is there any reason for that?


Safety, maybe? Also in Italy is like that. It would feel very strange to approach an intersection and don't find any priority sign, except on some dirt roads used mostly by farmers and cyclists.
We have a sign for intersections with priority on the right, but I've seen only once in my life, on an intersection that maybe sees few dozen cars per day.


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## ChrisZwolle

France has that as well. Priority to the right does exist, but in practice many minor intersections are signalled with a give way or STOP signs.


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## x-type

Attus said:


> A2 reaches the intersection with H3 through a tunnel (Šentvid tunnel). At this intersection, in order to turtn to H3 (eastbound) you have to make a 180 degrees turn.
> How was it before the opening of the Šentvid tunnel (what is actually not a single tunnel but a complex of one long and four short tunnels)? I drove there a few times in the late '90's and early 2000's, but I'm not sure about it. I think A2 did not reach the motorway ring of Ljlubjana at all but terminated at Celovška cesta, and the western bypass has not yet been seignated as A2. But I may be terribly wrong
> And I'm sure A1, too, did not reach Ljubljana, and traffic ran through Vir and Domžale. Was it the current route 447 - 104, or something different?
> 
> Slovenia uses now German-like motorway number symbols, but in green. However, unlike in Germany and in Switzerland (the same symbol in red), Slovenia uses the "A", too, in the symbol, not only the number. Since when does Slovenia use this symbol? I think it used to be much simpler, andtoday I was this sign (Google Streetview) that confirms it.


A2xH3 before Šentvid tunnel (2008 if I am right) it was quite messy. There was no interruption between A2 south (bypass part) and H3, so it was not totso, but single road. All the traffic towards and from Kranj and Karavanke went over exit #6 and Celovška cesta untill today's northern portal of Šentvid tunnel, where was A2 terminus. The intersection between Celovška and A2 was in almost the same shape as it is today, just without southern branch (the one in the tunnel southwards). Northbound it went immediately underground to pass under the railway (todays exit branches).
About A1 you're right - traffic went through Domžale and Trzin. The northern part of ring road was ending at the place of today's large roundabout at exit #2 of H3 (Tomačevo). I don't know what was the shape of that exit then, but I know that expressroad towards Trzin existed. The gap between Tomačevo and Malence was built in early 1990es. I remember that I was observing construction of Golovec tunnel each time passing there. Also, the ringroad at that northeastern part was closed before opening first part of A1 towards north from Ljubljana (between Ljubljana and #24 Krtina)


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## Verso

This map from 1985 may help:








I just don't know why that short section east of the Tomačevo interchange is dashed; it was neither under construction yet nor was it an expressway, it was just an ordinary two-lane road.

@x-type, actually you could've driven on the ringroad in the northeast (Zadobrova), you could've even driven on the A1 motorway towards Maribor before it opened to Krtina in 2001, but only to Šentjakob and only on one half of the motorway (there was a house standing in place of the other half).

As for those green motorway symbols, I think we've been using them for some ten years now.


----------



## Attus

Verso said:


> As for those green motorway symbols, I think we've been using them for some ten years now.


Slovenia has an unusual system of having both green and blue motorway signs. However, A5 is exotic even in this system: it's substandard and has a speed limit of 110, but has green signs. I know, Chris, too, posted about it a few weeks ago, and I understand the explanation, but I find it weird.


----------



## bortttt

Attus said:


> Slovenia has an unusual system of having both green and blue motorway signs. However, A5 is exotic even in this system: it's substandard and has a speed limit of 110, but has green signs. I know, Chris, too, posted about it a few weeks ago, and I understand the explanation, but I find it weird.


Well it's Italian-inspired


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## kreden

Attus said:


> Slovenia uses now German-like motorway number symbols, but in green. However, unlike in Germany and in Switzerland (the same symbol in red), Slovenia uses the "A", too, in the symbol, not only the number. Since when does Slovenia use this symbol? I think it used to be much simpler, andtoday I was this sign (Google Streetview) that confirms it.


The change was introduced with the traffic sign regulation update in 2000: Uradni list - Vsebina Uradnega lista (sign III-80)


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## Verso

You're right, it's (a lot) more than ten years.


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> This map from 1985 may help:
> View attachment 3994421
> 
> I just don't know why that short section east of the Tomačevo interchange is dashed; it was neither under construction yet nor was it an expressway, it was just an ordinary two-lane road.
> 
> @x-type, actually you could've driven on the ringroad in the northeast (Zadobrova), you could've even driven on the A1 motorway towards Maribor before it opened to Krtina in 2001, but only to Šentjakob and only on one half of the motorway (there was a house standing in place of the other half).
> 
> As for those green motorway symbols, I think we've been using them for some ten years now.


This is so interesting - I have never noticed that eastern and northern parts of the ring were built before southern.
I am looking now my map from 1981 - only eastern part between Kozarje and Celovška was built.
I have travelled there for the first time in 1987or 1988, obviously southern ring road was brand new then


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## Verso

^^ It must've been 1988 when it opened. And I believe you meant western bypass, not eastern (which opened in 1999).


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## Verso

Google Zemljevidi


V Google Zemljevidih poiščite lokalna podjetja, si oglejte zemljevide in pridobite navodila za vožnjo.




www.google.si




I've never seen "Italia" signed in Slovenia.


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## x-type

Verso said:


> Google Zemljevidi
> 
> 
> V Google Zemljevidih poiščite lokalna podjetja, si oglejte zemljevide in pridobite navodila za vožnjo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.si
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never seen "Italia" signed in Slovenia.


But it's perfectly clear. It is bilingual area, right? 
Do you have Slovenian-German bilingual areas in Slovenia? Or some else except Italian and Hungarian? It would be interesting to see signs there (we have Czech and some German villages, but I'm not sure into bilingual German signs)


----------



## g.spinoza

x-type said:


> But it's perfectly clear. It is bilingual area, right?
> Do you have Slovenian-German bilingual areas in Slovenia? Or some else except Italian and Hungarian? It would be interesting to see signs there (we have Czech and some German villages, but I'm not sure into bilingual German signs)


Nova Gorica is not bilingual, only few communities in Istria are.


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## Attus

x-type said:


> But it's perfectly clear. It is bilingual area, right?
> Do you have Slovenian-German bilingual areas in Slovenia? Or some else except Italian and Hungarian? It would be interesting to see signs there (we have Czech and some German villages, but I'm not sure into bilingual German signs)


Nova Gorica is not. 
You can spot the difference.
Nova Gorica:








Google Maps


Mit Google Maps lokale Anbieter suchen, Karten anzeigen und Routenpläne abrufen.




goo.gl




Koper/Capodistria:








Google Maps


Mit Google Maps lokale Anbieter suchen, Karten anzeigen und Routenpläne abrufen.




goo.gl




Dolga vas/Hosszúfalu:








Google Maps


Mit Google Maps lokale Anbieter suchen, Karten anzeigen und Routenpläne abrufen.




goo.gl


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> But it's perfectly clear. It is bilingual area, right?
> Do you have Slovenian-German bilingual areas in Slovenia? Or some else except Italian and Hungarian? It would be interesting to see signs there (we have Czech and some German villages, but I'm not sure into bilingual German signs)


As said, Nova Gorica (or Šempeter pri Gorici) isn't bilingual. The only other ethnic minority are the Roma, but I doubt there're any road signs in the Romani language.


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## x-type

Verso said:


> As said, Nova Gorica (or Šempeter pri Gorici) isn't bilingual. The only other ethnic minority are the Roma, but I doubt there're any road signs in the Romani language.


Oh, Romani, true. We have the law that billinguality may be obtained when 30% of population (minority) in certain county speaks up about using that language. For the first time we have one county with 30% of Roma people. Now they don't know what to do because Roma in Croatia don't have fixed grammar nor dictionary.


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## volkodlak

Verso said:


> As said, Nova Gorica (or Šempeter pri Gorici) isn't bilingual. The only other ethnic minority are the Roma, but I doubt there're any road signs in the Romani language.



lol, there are very few Roma in Šempeter or Gorica. Lately, many Ukranian, Russian, and Romanian (girls). A lot of whoring involved since Nova Gorica is the gamble capital of Slovenia.


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## verreme

volkodlak said:


> lol, there are very few Roma in Šempeter or Gorica. Lately, many Ukranian, Russian, and Romanian (girls). A lot of whoring involved since Nova Gorica is the gamble capital of Slovenia.


You rescued a post from more than a month ago to spew this racist, mysoginistic rant?


----------



## Corvinus

If a simple fact, observation or optinion is being stated, it's neither racist nor "mysoginistic" (misogynic) per se. The fact such statements might shed an unfavorable light on certain groups does not imply these properties.

In Germany, some frontrunners of the green radical anti-motoring movement regularly slander at "old, white men" being, in their view, the main cause of stipulated "problems" as well as being those unwilling to change habits. They don't accept a millimeter of "racism" allegations. On the other side, of course if someone tells them factually that the bulk of Schengen illegal entrants are non-European military age men, they start howling precisely because of "racism". What utter hypocrisy!


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## Verso

volkodlak said:


> lol, there are very few Roma in Šempeter or Gorica.


I meant the entire country since @x-type was asking about Slovenia as such.


----------



## volkodlak

verreme said:


> You rescued a post from more than a month ago to spew this racist, mysoginistic rant?



take it easy pal and save some soy for other boys.


Slovenian coast is entirely (totally injustifiable in my opinion) bilingual, eventhough ethnic Italians represent merely 1.500 strong community, in addition to their own educational and media rights this tiny minority has even its own (permanent!) member in Slovenian parliament. It's a uniquely privileged status I think in the whole world. Same goes for Hungarians who number some 4000-5000 souls. There are more Chinese than Hungarians and Italians combined in Slovenia, but it is what it is. On the other hand if you go to Trieste or Gorica there are barely any signs of Slovene presence, eventhough Slovene minority in Italy is at least 20 folds bigger than vice- versa.


----------



## italystf

volkodlak said:


> take it easy pal and save some soy for other boys.
> 
> 
> Slovenian coast is entirely (totally injustifiable in my opinion) bilingual, eventhough ethnic Italians represent merely 1.500 strong community, in addition to their own educational and media rights this tiny minority has even its own (permanent!) member in Slovenian parliament. It's a uniquely privileged status I think in the whole world. Same goes for Hungarians who number some 4000-5000 souls. There are more Chinese than Hungarians and Italians combined in Slovenia, but it is what it is. On the other hand if you go to Trieste or Gorica there are barely any signs of Slovene presence, eventhough Slovene minority in Italy is at least 20 folds bigger than vice- versa.


In Italian villages and neighborhoods with sizeable Slovenian population there is bilinguism imposed by law. Trieste and Gorizia city centres are not included in the bilingual area because they don't have a so big native Slovene population.
Comparing Chinese with Italian and Hungarian population in Slovenia makes no sense, as Chineses are recent immigrants, while Italians and Hungarians are native minorities. Recognition of ethnical and linguistic minorieties is one of the basic XXI century European values. BTW, the Italian minority in Slovenian coast counts about 3,000 people. But those who have some Italian background even if they speak mostly Slovenian and identify themselves as Slovenes are even more.


----------



## volkodlak

italystf said:


> In Italian villages and neighborhoods with sizeable Slovenian population there is bilinguism imposed by law. Trieste and Gorizia city centres are not included in the bilingual area because they don't have a so big native Slovene population.
> Comparing Chinese with Italian and Hungarian population in Slovenia makes no sense, as Chineses are recent immigrants, while Italians and Hungarians are native minorities. Recognition of ethnical and linguistic minorieties is one of the basic XXI century European values. BTW, the Italian minority in Slovenian coast counts about 3,000 people. But those who have some Italian background even if they speak mostly Slovenian and identify themselves as Slovenes are even more.


How many Italians live in centre of Koper, and yet everything is bilingual? There is no country in the world where so tiny minority (even it is 3000 it's not making any difference!) has so many extensive rights. One that goes to Koper or Piran would think there is at least 1/3 of Italians, so strong is bilingualism e v e r y w h e r e. Not to mention other privileges, it's ridiculuous. A state funded TV and Radio channels. Public education and use on all levels. Try speaking Slovene in Trieste assebly, good luck with that.

On the other hand Slovenes (say 80.000 strong) don't have even a permanent member in Italian parliament. Italians do in Slovenia. We still didn't get back Narodni dom in its entirety, etc., etc... It's ridiculous when you lecture others on recognition of lingustic rights.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Reminds me of some statistics in Canada. French is accommodated in Toronto, despite it being only the 14th most spoken language.


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## valkrav

volkodlak said:


> One that goes to Koper or Piran would think there is at least 1/3 of Italians, so strong is bilingualism e v e r y w h e r e.


That why a lot of customers goes from Italy, so a lot of slovenian native language inhabitants speak italain.
This situation was before Slovenia enter schengen and before enter EU

People living border zone looking for communicated for a lot of reasons
and italian more easy to learn so more slovenian know italian then italian know slovenian


----------



## MichiH

ChrisZwolle said:


> Reminds me of some statistics in Canada. French is accommodated in Toronto, despite it being only the 14th most spoken language.


Source? 20% are native French and 58% native English in Canada: Which Are The Most Spoken Languages in Canada?
About Toronto: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto#Language


----------



## italystf

ChrisZwolle said:


> Reminds me of some statistics in Canada. French is accommodated in Toronto, despite it being only the 14th most spoken language.


Again, this is the difference between immigrant communities and native minorities. Usually the first don't get special legal protection (immigrants are supposed to integrate where they live and it's not possible to write everything in 20 languages anyway), while the second in most civilized countries do.


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## ChrisZwolle

MichiH said:


> Source?


Here it is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Toronto#Toronto_CMA_2


----------



## MichiH

ChrisZwolle said:


> Here it is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Toronto#Toronto_CMA_2


It's 15th though   It indicates that 1.1% are native in the city itself but my source - which also refers to a 2016 census - indicates 1.6% 
_Don't trust any statistics you haven't falsified yourself _


----------



## x-type

volkodlak said:


> How many Italians live in centre of Koper, and yet everything is bilingual? There is no country in the world where so tiny minority (even it is 3000 it's not making any difference!) has so many extensive rights. One that goes to Koper or Piran would think there is at least 1/3 of Italians, so strong is bilingualism e v e r y w h e r e. Not to mention other privileges, it's ridiculuous. A state funded TV and Radio channels. Public education and use on all levels. Try speaking Slovene in Trieste assebly, good luck with that.
> 
> On the other hand Slovenes (say 80.000 strong) don't have even a permanent member in Italian parliament. Italians do in Slovenia. We still didn't get back Narodni dom in its entirety, etc., etc... It's ridiculous when you lecture others on recognition of lingustic rights.


Pula, which is way larger than Koper has cca 3500 Italians, 6%. The question is how many Slovenians in Koper declare as Italian speakers, no?

Btw, at western Italian border situation is completely different. I was sure that I could speak Italian in Menton with no problems. Yeah, right. I have found only one guy out of 10 speaking some Italian, and he was Moroccan or Lybian :lol:


----------



## italystf

x-type said:


> Pula, which is way larger than Koper has cca 3500 Italians, 6%. The question is how many Slovenians in Koper declare as Italian speakers, no?
> 
> Btw, at western Italian border situation is completely different. I was sure that I could speak Italian in Menton with no problems. Yeah, right. I have found only one guy out of 10 speaking some Italian, and he was Moroccan or Lybian :lol:


That's indeed surprising, as in that region is spoken a dialect closely related to Ligurian/Genoan dialect. However probably most young people don't speak it anymore, nor they bothered learning standard Italian. That region was under Italian (Piedmont and Sardinia Kingdom) influence before 1860.


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## valkrav

x-type said:


> at western Italian border situation is completely different. I was sure that I could speak Italian in Menton with no problems. Yeah, right. I have found only one guy out of 10 speaking some Italian


I have completely contrary experience, only 1 of 10 people non speak italian in that parts

Generaly state borders in europe non exactly languages border,
in Italy Vale d'aosta speak more france, sud tirol more germany, east France (Alsace) same
so nothing incredible
But slowly language situation changes, more and more people abandoned local language
Look to Romania. Hungarian speakers every year less and less


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## Shenkey

volkodlak said:


> How many Italians live in centre of Koper, and yet everything is bilingual? There is no country in the world where so tiny minority (even it is 3000 it's not making any difference!) has so many extensive rights. One that goes to Koper or Piran would think there is at least 1/3 of Italians, so strong is bilingualism e v e r y w h e r e. Not to mention other privileges, it's ridiculuous. A state funded TV and Radio channels. Public education and use on all levels. Try speaking Slovene in Trieste assebly, good luck with that.
> 
> On the other hand Slovenes (say 80.000 strong) don't have even a permanent member in Italian parliament. Italians do in Slovenia. We still didn't get back Narodni dom in its entirety, etc., etc... It's ridiculous when you lecture others on recognition of lingustic rights.


I don't know why are you acting like an idiot.
Bilingual signs are good for business, good for tourism and in the end good for local relations.
The literally cost nothing except a few meters of aluminum and maybe an ego or two.

You can have a point about missing rights of Slovene minority in Italy, but there is no point in refusing rights to Italian minority to "battle" for it.

Italy never had to face their fascist past. Nothing new or unique, same with Austria or Japan.


italystf said:


> Again, this is the difference between immigrant communities and native minorities. Usually the first don't get special legal protection (immigrants are supposed to integrate where they live and it's not possible to write everything in 20 languages anyway), while the second in most civilized countries do.


I agree, but you don't see German sings in Wroclaw or Krakow either. Slovenia could remove them if we wanted, but what is the point.


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## italystf

Shenkey said:


> You can have a point about missing rights of Slovene minority in Italy, but there is no point in refusing rights to Italian minority to "battle" for it.
> 
> Italy never had to face their fascist past. Nothing new or unique, same with Austria or Japan.


In areas of Italy with sizeable Slovenian minority all street signs, official information, public administration webpages, documents, etc. are bilingual by law. There is Slovenian-speaker employees in public offices. There are schools where Slovenian is the primary language. There is a Slovenian-language newspaper partially funded by Friuli Venezia Giulia region. Only a representative on the national parliament is missing. But it's not that Slovenes in Italy are denied to use their language like during fascism.



Shenkey said:


> I agree, but you don't see German sings in Wroclaw or Krakow either.


Are there still relevant German minorities in these regions left after WWII?


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## volkodlak

italystf said:


> In areas of Italy with sizeable Slovenian minority all street signs, official information, public administration webpages, documents, etc. are bilingual by law. There is Slovenian-speaker employees in public offices. There are schools where Slovenian is the primary language. There is a Slovenian-language newspaper partially funded by Friuli Venezia Giulia region. Only a representative on the national parliament is missing. But it's not that Slovenes in Italy are denied to use their language like during fascism.



You can't deny that Slovene language is FAR less visible in Italy (especially in Trieste and Gorica) as compared to vice versa, you can go on and on with your relativistic approach, but you're missing the whole point. Even when this year Gusti di frontiera happened, the flyers were in Italian in English eventhough a huge chunk of visitors came from Slovenia as far as from Ljubljana!




italystf said:


> Are there still relevant German minorities in these regions left after WWII?


I believe there are some left in upper Silesia. Father of Miroslav Klose was an ethnic German from Poland who finally migrated to West Germany together with his family in '70.


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## keber

This weekend H3 (Ljubljana north bypass) was completely closed (closure was done in two parts) to install two big beams (lenght of about 60 m each) and other works on new overpass for exit Leskoškova. New overpass will be built beside existing parallel one to make a dog-bone roundabout. This part of H3 is being also widened up to A1 interchange.








[PRIKLJUČEK LESKOŠKOVA] 🏗 Sinoči smo montirali jeklena nosilca za nov nadvoz v bližini ljubljanskega BTC. Nocoj nadaljujemo s postavljanjem delovnih... | By Vozimo pametno z DARS | Facebook


26 тыс. views, 403 likes, 1 loves, 30 comments, 66 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Vozimo pametno z DARS: [PRIKLJUČEK LESKOŠKOVA] 🏗 Sinoči smo montirali jeklena nosilca za nov nadvoz v bližini...




fb.watch




Openstreetmap link:








OpenStreetMap


OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.




www.openstreetmap.org




Also few photos by me:
A day before closure (old overpass is seen in the background):
View attachment 4270112


Widening after exit:
View attachment 4270106

View attachment 4270107

View attachment 4270108


Installed beams:


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## The Wild Boy

Wouldn't that widening create a traffic weaving point?


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## x-type

keber said:


> This weekend H3 (Ljubljana north bypass) was completely closed (closure was done in two parts) to install two big beams (lenght of about 60 m each) and other works on new overpass and exit Letališka. New overpass will be built beside existing parallel one to make a dog-bone roundabout. This part of H3 is being also widened up to A1 interchange.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [PRIKLJUČEK LESKOŠKOVA] 🏗 Sinoči smo montirali jeklena nosilca za nov nadvoz v bližini ljubljanskega BTC. Nocoj nadaljujemo s postavljanjem delovnih... | By Vozimo pametno z DARS | Facebook
> 
> 
> 26 тыс. views, 403 likes, 1 loves, 30 comments, 66 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Vozimo pametno z DARS: [PRIKLJUČEK LESKOŠKOVA] 🏗 Sinoči smo montirali jeklena nosilca za nov nadvoz v bližini...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fb.watch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Openstreetmap link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OpenStreetMap
> 
> 
> OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.openstreetmap.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also few photos by me:
> A day before closure (old overpass is seen in the background):
> View attachment 4270112
> 
> 
> Widening after exit:
> View attachment 4270106
> 
> View attachment 4270107
> 
> View attachment 4270108
> 
> 
> Installed beams:


I think than you wanted to write Leskoškova, not Letališka. Afaik there are no works at exit Letališka/Moste, which was compeltely reconstructed recently (except motorway exit itself).


----------



## keber

x-type said:


> I think than you wanted to write Leskoškova, not Letališka. Afaik there are no works at exit Letališka/Moste, which was compeltely reconstructed recently (except motorway exit itself).


Repaired. Actually that is defacto new northern acess to industrial Letališka street to relieve traffic pressure on Šmartinska street exit. That is why I made a mistake as Leskoškova is pretty short street. 
Otherwise I drive on H3 here almost daily. Construction is pretty slow, exit should be finished already last month, including first phase of H3 reconstruction.


----------



## keber

Today is the 50th anniversary of the opening of the first motorway in Slovenia between Vrhnika and Postojna (today marked as A1), in length of about 32 km. Construction took 2 years and 7 months. Signage was copied from Italian autostrada. As this first motorway (one of first in Yugoslavia) was not built in direction of Belgrade but toward Italy, a big affaire was made and money for that section wasn't raised easily (international loan of 16.1 mil. USD). President Tito did not attend the opening ceremony.
First toll for cars was 8 dinars or about 1,4 DEM for Yugoslav citizens and 3 DEM (about 1 USD in 1973) for foreigners. In busy days of the first year of operation there were about 1600 vehicles in 8 hours.

Many pictures from construction were released.








Pred pol stoletja odprli prvo avtocesto v Sloveniji in Jugoslaviji (FOTO) - N1


Slovenija je prvo avtocesto dobila 29. decembra 1972, ko je bil odprt odsek primorske avtoceste med Vrhniko in Postojno.




n1info.si


----------



## x-type

keber said:


> Today is the 50th anniversary of the opening of the first motorway in Slovenia between Vrhnika and Postojna (today marked as A1), in length of about 32 km. Construction took 2 years and 7 months. Signage was copied from Italian autostrada. As this first motorway (one of first in Yugoslavia) was not built in direction of Belgrade but toward Italy, a big affaire was made and money for that section wasn't raised easily (international loan of 16.1 mil. USD). President Tito did not attend the opening ceremony.
> First toll for cars was 8 dinars or about 1,4 DEM for Yugoslav citizens and 3 DEM (about 1 USD in 1973) for foreigners. In busy days of the first year of operation there were about 1600 vehicles in 8 hours.
> 
> Many pictures from construction were released.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pred pol stoletja odprli prvo avtocesto v Sloveniji in Jugoslaviji (FOTO) - N1
> 
> 
> Slovenija je prvo avtocesto dobila 29. decembra 1972, ko je bil odprt odsek primorske avtoceste med Vrhniko in Postojno.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> n1info.si


Was it opened at the same time as Zagreb - Karlovac or sooner? I know there is some issue with the dates, but i forgot exactly what was it about. I see that frontpage of Večernji List mentions the article titled "Startaju autoceste" and as I can read, opening ceremony was at 14h30 for both (I cannot open full scan, archive is under payment).
Croatian opening was also under boycott of high state and federation representatives, from article I can read the it was opened by a regular worker, and the highest positioned representative was Boris Bakrač, former minister of construction engineering in SR Croatia republic government.


----------



## keber

First and fourth picture are from the opening ceremony in Vrhnika when high profile Slovenian politicians (probably not all) drove over whole motorway. Regarding the shadows and lightning that had to be photographed quite before noon.


----------



## Verso




----------



## threo2k

Wowww


----------



## keber

Compared to today (from Google SW):









It is amazing to see how much less forests and trees were overall.


----------



## Norsko

Verso said:


>


Drove here this summer  Btw, always thought those triangular and circular traffic signs were yellow back in YU-times.


----------



## RipleyLV

Verso said:


>


Cool. And those "rusty" A22 Brennero barriers.


----------



## Motorway Fan

keber said:


> First and fourth picture are from the opening ceremony in Vrhnika when high profile Slovenian politicians (probably not all) drove over whole motorway. Regarding the shadows and lightning that had to be photographed quite before noon.


Newspaper Delo confirms it was opened before noon.










Source: Delo (02.01.1973), volume 14, issue 355. (dLib.si - Delo)


----------



## x-type

Norsko said:


> Drove here this summer  Btw, always thought those triangular and circular traffic signs were yellow back in YU-times.


They were from second half of 1980es, and in 1990es in independent states (at least Slovenia and Croatia, for others I don't know).


----------



## italystf

keber said:


> Today is the 50th anniversary of the opening of the first motorway in Slovenia between Vrhnika and Postojna (today marked as A1), in length of about 32 km. Construction took 2 years and 7 months. Signage was copied from Italian autostrada. As this first motorway (one of first in Yugoslavia) was not built in direction of Belgrade but toward Italy, a big affaire was made and money for that section wasn't raised easily (international loan of 16.1 mil. USD). President Tito did not attend the opening ceremony.
> First toll for cars was 8 dinars or about 1,4 DEM for Yugoslav citizens and 3 DEM (about 1 USD in 1973) for foreigners. In busy days of the first year of operation there were about 1600 vehicles in 8 hours.


I wonder if its main purpose was to provide a better access to ports of Koper and Rijeka, rather than to Italy. It would have been quite anti-communist back then to promote a connection to the West, especially Italy that had still territorial disputes with Yugoslavia back then (until 1975 Osimo Treaty), even if visa free travel between the two countries became possible already in 1967.
A motorway between Ljubljana and Belgrade via Zagreb wasn't probably the priority back then because there was already an 1+1 expressway opened in 1950-58.


----------



## keber

Money from international funds was available just for motorways to Italy (Osimo agreement), not toward Koper. Already two years later motorway was expanded to Razdrto, and next motorways were built at I/SLO border at Nova Gorica/Gorizia and later to Sežana (in 1995).
Koper port was quite unimportant at that time, even the railway was build mostly with funds from port authority.


----------



## x-type

italystf said:


> I wonder if its main purpose was to provide a better access to ports of Koper and Rijeka, rather than to Italy. It would have been quite anti-communist back then to promote a connection to the West, especially Italy that had still territorial disputes with Yugoslavia back then (until 1975 Osimo Treaty), even if visa free travel between the two countries became possible already in 1967.
> A motorway between Ljubljana and Belgrade via Zagreb wasn't probably the priority back then because there was already an 1+1 expressway opened in 1950-58.


Ljubljana - Zagreb - Beograd (more precisely Karavanke - Ljubljana - Zagreb - Beograd - Skopje - Gevgelija) was absolute priority and the sections of it started to open soon after Vrhnika - Postojna, and Zagreb - Karlovac. Basically, all other projects were stopped. I don't know for Slovenian motorway, but Croatian Zagreb - Karlovac was financed by Croatian state funding, not by federal Yugoslav one. Probably Slovenian part was the same.


----------



## keber

Also to know, because of that first motorway, first liberal Slovenian government had to step down just months before opening. And president Tito (half Slovenian, half Croatian) visited construction place just once and even that very briefly.
As I know, even Croatian government had big problems with their planned motorway to Split.


----------



## italystf

keber said:


> Money from international funds was available just for motorways to Italy (Osimo agreement), not toward Koper. Already two years later motorway was expanded to Razdrto, and next motorways were built at I/SLO border at Nova Gorica/Gorizia and later to Sežana (in 1995).
> Koper port was quite unimportant at that time, even the railway was build mostly with funds from port authority.


Vrhnika - Postojna motorway opened before Osimo agreement.


----------



## italystf

keber said:


> Also to know, because of that first motorway, first liberal Slovenian government had to step down just months before opening. And president Tito (half Slovenian, half Croatian) visited construction place just once and even that very briefly.
> As I know, even Croatian government had big problems with their planned motorway to Split.


In the original plan the Zagreb-Split motorway was supposed to go via Bihac (BiH). It would have become very problematic after the breakup of Yugoslavia.
Obviously the Yugoslavian communist regime had no interest in making different parts of Croatia closer together, especially after the early 1970s "Croatian Spring".
Also the idea of an "Adriatic-Jonian highway" between Greece and Italy and Western Europe wasn't possible back then because Albania was closed.


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## keber

italystf said:


> Vrhnika - Postojna motorway opened before Osimo agreement.


True. But it was built, because main road toward Postojna was very curvy and had really dense traffic and run through towns and villages. Quite a good part of traffic was international. Traffic to Koper was very light at that time, as coastal part of Slovenia was socially and partly also economically more connected to Istria and Trieste than to Ljubljana.
Even signage on new motorway was exactly copied from Italian, official (!) reason was that new motorway will connect to Italian autostrada network.


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## italystf

keber said:


> Even signage on new motorway was exactly copied from Italian, official (!) reason was that new motorway will connect to Italian autostrada network.


It finally happened in 1997, 25 years after the first section of Slovenian A1 and 31 years after the first section of Italian A4.
So the Italian signage was used only on that motorway in Yugoslavia?


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## x-type

italystf said:


> In the original plan the Zagreb-Split motorway was supposed to go via Bihac (BiH). It would have become very problematic after the breakup of Yugoslavia.
> Obviously the Yugoslavian communist regime had no interest in making different parts of Croatia closer together, especially after the early 1970s "Croatian Spring".
> Also the idea of an "Adriatic-Jonian highway" between Greece and Italy and Western Europe wasn't possible back then because Albania was closed.


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## x-type

italystf said:


> It finally happened in 1997, 25 years after the first section of Slovenian A1 and 31 years after the first section of Italian A4.
> So the Italian signage was used only on that motorway in Yugoslavia?


Nope, in Croatia as well.


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## keber

I don't know, I've never seen a picture of signage on a half motorway toward Maribor, that was built between 1976 and 1978. However I still remember some old Italian-type signage between Ljubljana and Vrhnika in early 1990ies. New type of signage was introduced (at least in Slovenia) with the opening of Ljubljana-Kranj motorway in 1984.


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## Verso

I still don't quite understand the uproar from Belgrade. Ok, it wasn't a motorway between Ljubljana and Belgrade, but it was a motorway between Belgrade and Italy. They promoted connections with Austria (particularly Ljubljana-Karavanke), so why not with Italy? I assume there was even more traffic with Italy than with Austria (at least now there is).


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## x-type

Verso said:


> I still don't quite understand the uproar from Belgrade. Ok, it wasn't a motorway between Ljubljana and Belgrade, but it was a motorway between Belgrade and Italy. They promoted connections with Austria (particularly Ljubljana-Karavanke), so why not with Italy? I assume there was even more traffic with Italy than with Austria (at least now there is).


Brotherhood and unity? From Vardar to Triglav from Đerdap to Adriatic? 

About Italian-like signs - I remember them only on motorways. Not sure for state roads though.


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## The Wild Boy

If Ohrehovica - Kikovica in Croatia wasn't the first ever motorway that opened in Yugoslavia (since it was not a motorway, but an express road), and Vrhnika - Postojna & Zagreb - Karlovac both opened in 1972 at the same day... then which was the first motorway that opened earlier?


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## Verso

Perhaps a ceremony for ZG-KA took place on 29th December and opening on 30th. I always thought Vrhnika-Postojna opened one day earlier. Anyway, the motorway through Belgrade was built even earlier, but the speed limit wasn't 120 km/h (probably 80 km/h) and it wasn't tolled either.


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## The Wild Boy

Verso said:


> Perhaps a ceremony for ZG-KA took place on 29th December and opening on 30th. I always thought Vrhnika-Postojna opened one day earlier. Anyway, the motorway through Belgrade was built even earlier, but the speed limit wasn't 120 km/h (probably 80 km/h) and it wasn't tolled either.


Motorway through Belgrade (section in New Belgrade) opened in 1974 (i think Arnorian had a map showing which motorway sections opened when in Serbia, but i could not find it), and the motorway through Old Belgrade opened in 1979. Previously there was a normal 2 lane fast magistral road (highway) which did ran through Old Belgrade ( i have seen this on some old images of Belgrade in a Facebook Group), but that probably terminated somewhere near the Autokomanda Interchange.

I don't think any motorway opened earlier than that in Belgrade.

Edit: Okay, maybe you were right, and this means that technically the first ever motorway opened on the 4th of December, 1970. Although yes, it was a short stretch and with an 80 km/h speed limit.

So then the first longer distance, higher - speed limit which opened in Yugoslavia, that was not a city urban - motorway was Zagreb - Karlovac, which actually makes it the first of such motorway to open in Yugoslavia, and the second overall at that time (if we include the Gazela Bridge and motorway connecting to it).

Edit 2: Orehovica - Kikovica was the first "inter - city" motorway to open in Croatia, although again with a climbing lane and 80km/h speed limit, and Zagreb - Karlovac being the second "Inter - City" motorway to open ever in Yugoslavia was the first one with a 120 km/h speed limit which properly resembled a more modern motorway with a smoother alignment.


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## keber

I found an official map from 1969 of proposed motorways with respective designations - A1 and A2 were designated already at that time (and later changed)


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## Verso

The Wild Boy said:


> So then the first longer distance, higher - speed limit which opened in Yugoslavia, that was not a city urban - motorway was Zagreb - Karlovac, which actually makes it the first of such motorway to open in Yugoslavia, and the second overall at that time (if we include the Gazela Bridge and motorway connecting to it).


ZG-KA wasn't opened any earlier than Vrhnika-Postojna.


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## sponge_bob

keber said:


> Quite a good part of traffic was international.


Yes. the Iron curtain meant the only road from SE Europe to Mitteleuropa was the Yugoslav route Karawank- Zagreb-Belgrade-Nis and the hard currency was gratefully accepted from transit traffic. DMs of course. Bulgaria allowed transit to and from Turkey. 

Had there been an alternative route the Yugoslavs might not have built any motorway.


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## italystf

sponge_bob said:


> Yes. the Iron curtain meant the only road from SE Europe to Mitteleuropa was the Yugoslav route Karawank- Zagreb-Belgrade-Nis and the hard currency was gratefully accepted from transit traffic. DMs of course. Bulgaria allowed transit to and from Turkey.
> 
> Had there been an alternative route the Yugoslavs might not have built any motorway.


Yes, although Karawank tunnel only opened in 1991. The curvy road across Wurzenpass was used before. Many Turkish, Greek, and Yugoslav gastarbeiter in Germany used that route to travel back home for holidays. After 1991 going via Croatia and Serbia was no longer possible because of the war, so traffic between Western Europe and Turkey/Greece had to go either via Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria (that meantime had opened to the World) or via Italy and ferry to Greece. Now with peace and motorways in Western Balkans countries, probably the old route is the fastest again.


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## ChrisZwolle

italystf said:


> Yes, although Karawank tunnel only opened in 1991. The curvy road across Wurzenpass was used before.


The Ljubelj / Loibl was the preferred route before the Karawank Tunnel?

Both are rather steep on the Austrian side. I drove the Wurzenpass this year, the road is in poor condition on the Austrian side.


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## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Ljubelj / Loibl was the preferred route before the Karawank Tunnel?
> 
> Both are rather steep on the Austrian side. I drove the Wurzenpass this year, the road is in poor condition on the Austrian side.


Yugoslav road No1 (the one connecting Greece and Austria) actually had km0 at Wurzenpass (Korensko sedlo), so basically it should have been more important for transit to direction Germany.


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## Verso

stickedy said:


> There were not that much border crossings in the past


It wasn't such a big difference in the _number_ of border crossings itself. What was missing in times of Yugoslavia were the motorway border crossing Šentilj (there was a border crossing on the old road nearby) and the Pavlič saddle. The biggest difference was made with opening of the Karavanke Tunnel just one month before Slovenia's independence. This tunnel alone made a huge difference in road connection between Slovenia and Austria, particularly on the mountainous part of the border.


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## italystf

Verso said:


> It wasn't such a big difference in the _number_ of border crossings itself. What was missing in times of Yugoslavia were the motorway border crossing Šentilj (there was a border crossing on the old road nearby) and the Pavlič saddle. The biggest difference was made with opening of the Karavanke Tunnel just one month before Slovenia's independence. This tunnel alone made a huge difference in road connection between Slovenia and Austria.


Why has the old (i.e. non-motorway) border crossing of Spielfeld/Šentilj been closed? To force people to purchase Austrian and Slovenian vignettes also for local trips?


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## Attus

italystf said:


> Why has the old (i.e. non-motorway) border crossing of Spielfeld/Šentilj been closed? To force people to purchase Austrian and Slovenian vignettes also for local trips?


Hard to believe a border crossing at a Schengen border was closed. And actually Verso did not write anything about it having been closed, I think you misunderstood him.


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## Verso

It wasn't closed, it's still open.


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## italystf

Attus said:


> Hard to believe a border crossing at a Schengen border was closed. And actually Verso did not write anything about it having been closed, I think you misunderstood him.


Yes, he said that there WAS a border crossing on the old road. He probably intended that there was ONLY that border crossing (the motorway one wasn't built yet), and not that it was closed.

Anyway, the old SLO-HR border crossing at Gruškovje (Maribor-Zagreb motorway) seems actually closed. Did they reopen it yesterday after Schengen?


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## Verso

^^ They should first repave it before they open this. Looks like they removed pavement on a short part where it's now a dirt road (for whatever reason).


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## Eulanthe

Verso said:


> ^^ They should first repave it before they open this. Looks like they removed pavement on a short part where it's now a dirt road (for whatever reason).


There's a small crossing further down the hill, which should have been reopened.










I don't know if this will actually be opened for normal use though, because it would open up the vignette-free route through Slovenia again.



italystf said:


> Anyway, the old SLO-HR border crossing at Gruškovje (Maribor-Zagreb motorway) seems actually closed


Yes, it's been closed since they opened the new Macelj crossing, back in 2001 (I think...?). There was no reason to keep it open, especially because Croatia should have joined Schengen by 2016-2017.

Weirdly, the latest Street View shows that they removed some of the old booths at some point between 2016 and now. I have a photo from 2016:










But Street View shows that the booths on the right side were removed at some point.


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## x-type

Verso said:


> ^^ They should first repave it before they open this. Looks like they removed pavement on a short part where it's now a dirt road (for whatever reason).


That would be very welcome.
The road blocks were put due to new motorway crossing, when old one became obsolete and out of function. I don't know why didn't they leave it as they did on Goričan. However, really few works would solve the situation there - whether removing those road blocks, or making exit (connector) from Slovenian part of the motorway to old road, which actually already exists, but it is forbidden to use it.


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