# UEFA EURO 2008 Stadiums



## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

They fulfill the UEFA's needs, so they will satisfy your needs as well. As I have already stated above, the Stadiums in Innsbruck and Salzburg DO look very small, but they both will become twice as big until 2008 by adding additional 15.000 seats. Wait and see!


(And you will not be able to beat the mountain view from the stadium in Innsbruck


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## vivayo (May 6, 2003)

maybe some of them have good quality, but honestly all of them look very cheap. including Ernst Happel, which looks very 80's, maybe a very big renovation could do it


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## Martuh (Nov 12, 2005)

Somebody from Austria please tell me why they didn't use Rapid Wien's or Austria Wien's stadium, they're Austria's only real European candidates, right?


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Ernst-Happel-Stadion actually has more soul and spirit than all the other stadiums together, a little like a South American Arena...

Well, Martuh, Hanappi-Stadion, Rapid's stadium is too small (18,000) and there is neither space for an enlargement, nor is the neighbourhood suited for such an event. (ie no major roads, lack of parking lots, even though a new garage was opened not to long ago.
Rapid still is my team, though...





























The Horr-Stadion of Austria (the team all Rapid fans hate!) is ugly and a scar in Vienna's face, even though it is quite easily accessible by the city motorway A23. But same problem here: No parking opportunities, no space. And faaaar from being internationally suitable. (11,800) Both teams have their important int'l games in Happel-Stadion (ie Champions league, UEFA-Cup) Rapid uses the Hanappi-Stadion for preliminary UEFA-Cup matches. The Vienna derby nearly often takes place in the Happel-Stadion as well.

Horr-Stadion:




























Happel-Stadion:


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## bubomb (Aug 20, 2004)

All good stadiums apart from Zurich. I have been to Sankt Jacob Park,Basel, superb stadium and will be even better after the upgrade. Stade de Suisse Wankdorf Bern looks superb as well (very famous stadium). Very modern and clean looking stadium. As for the countries, 2 great modern advanced wealthy countries with great architecture and history. The tournament will be superb. I couldn't stand Portugal, it was like being in a 3rd world country. Portugal was dirty, had poor facilities and the organisation from transport to hotels was awful. If you get a chance visit Vienna and Salzburg, 2 of the most amazing cities in the world.

The photos of Stadion Salzburg and Tivoli Stadion Innsbruck are the present stadiums. They will be doubled in size and look totally different by the time the tournament comes around.


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## MoreOrLess (Feb 17, 2005)

The organisation for euro 2004 was less than great I agree but I don't think you can say the stadiums were not a good deal better than these if only in size. I got all the tickets I applied for in Portugal, I doubt the same would be true if I desided to go to this one.


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## Filipe_Golias (Aug 22, 2005)

bubomb said:


> I couldn't stand Portugal, it was like being in a 3rd world country. Portugal was dirty, had poor facilities and the organisation from transport to hotels was awful.


Gee, thanks! Gladly, i doubt the big majority of the fans who came here have that view... UEFA surely didn't think that way  I'm sorry my country didn't suit your needs.


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## cianobuckley (Nov 28, 2005)

Will someone please tell me how this bid was prefered to the Scotland/Ireland bid?This is a major step down from Portugal and there are only two large stadia Ernst Happeol (50k) but with a running track and st jakob park only 42k!!! 

Scotland and Ireland on the other hand have,
Croke Park 75,000
Murrayfield 67,500
Celtic Park 60,000
New Lansdowne Road 52,000
Hampden Park 50,000
Ibrox 50,000
+
one other proposed 30,000 seater
I know that proximity and location is the problem but lets face it thats all the Austria/Switzerland bid has going for it!


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## Iain1974 (Jun 16, 2004)

cianobuckley said:


> Will someone please tell me how this bid was prefered to the Scotland/Ireland bid?This is a major step down from Portugal and there are only two large stadia Ernst Happeol (50k) but with a running track and st jakob park only 42k!!!
> 
> Scotland and Ireland on the other hand have,
> Croke Park 75,000
> ...


I think UEFA decided that having EURO 2008 in Scotland was too soon after EURO1996 in England and that Scotland shouldna't have bothered bidding in the first place. They also didn't like the GAA's rather hostile attitude towards Football. The GAA own Croke Park.

Personally I thought that the Celtic bid had by far the better stadiums. In fact if Wales was included the lis of facilities would be very, very impressive and even the larger countries like Spain or Italy would struggle to match. 

Croke Park 75,000
Millenium Stadium 74,500
Murrayfield 67,500
Celtic Park 60,000
New Lansdowne Road 52,000
Hampden Park 50,000
Tynecastle 30,000+ (after main stand re-built and corners added)
Ibrox 50,000


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## Its AlL gUUd (Jan 24, 2006)

cianobuckley said:


> Will someone please tell me how this bid was prefered to the Scotland/Ireland bid?This is a major step down from Portugal and there are only two large stadia Ernst Happeol (50k) but with a running track and st jakob park only 42k!!!
> 
> Scotland and Ireland on the other hand have,
> Croke Park 75,000
> ...



some scottish fans seem to be ignorant :bash: of the reasons why the bid failed, even though i would of like to see it in scotland. Firstly CROKE PARK was NOT included in the bid, secondly you CANT have 3 stadiums in one city(Glasgow), Thirdly UEFA prefer in a jointbid for the countries to share out the venues, so four each.


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## MoreOrLess (Feb 17, 2005)

Filipe_Golias said:


> Gee, thanks! Gladly, i doubt the big majority of the fans who came here have that view... UEFA surely didn't think that way  I'm sorry my country didn't suit your needs.


While I'd agree with bubomb that some of the organisation wasnt great(very crowded checkpoints outside the stadiums mainly) I liked the country as a whole alot, espeically the north near the house I rented with some friends/relatives.


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## Martuh (Nov 12, 2005)

> 01.02.2006 - Dritter Rang der Tribüne C wächst
> 
> Obwohl der ersten Spatenstich für den Ausbau des Basler St. Jakob Park bereits am 9. Mai 2005 stattgefunden hatte, blieb die Fortschritte für Stadiongäste lange unsichtbar. Denn die Fundamente des dritten Rangs der Tribüne C wurden hinter und unter den dortigen Traversen und damit außerhalb des Sichtfeldes der Besucher gelegt.
> Das Ausmaß der bisherigen Arbeiten zeigte sich erst, als die Bauarbeiter Anfang November in einer Ecke zur Tribüne D hin das Stadiondach abmontierten und erste Zahnbalken des neuen Rangs sichtbar wurden. Inzwischen wurde auch mit der Verlegung erster Fertigbetonelemente für die 18 neuen Sitzreihen mit etwa 7.000 zusätzlichen Sitzplätzen begonnen.
> ...


Don't know what's in the message (I barely speak German) but it comes down to; construction of the third tier had started in Basel!


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## Marco_ (Jan 15, 2006)

Most of these stadiums are between 30.000 - 40.000. Too small for such a big tournament I think.
And I don't like them, honestly. Except for Tivoli-stadium


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## bubomb (Aug 20, 2004)

but Tivoli-stadium hasn't been built yet!!

Does anybody actually understand that Stadion Salzburg and Tivoli Stadion Innsbruck have not actually been built yet? Those photos are the present stadiums. They will be doubled in size and look totally different by the time the tournament comes around.


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## bubomb (Aug 20, 2004)

Its AlL gUUd said:


> some scottish fans seem to be ignorant :bash: of the reasons why the bid failed, even though i would of like to see it in scotland. Firstly CROKE PARK was NOT included in the bid, secondly you CANT have 3 stadiums in one city(Glasgow), Thirdly UEFA prefer in a jointbid for the countries to share out the venues, so four each.



Erm......NO. No Scottish fans are ignorant of why the bid failed, as i'm the only Scottish fan here and those are the reasons I gave for the bid failing in a previous thread. It's non-Scots who are ignorant of why the bid failed.


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## Iain1974 (Jun 16, 2004)

bubomb said:


> Erm......NO. No Scottish fans are ignorant of why the bid failed, as i'm the only Scottish fan here and those are the reasons I gave for the bid failing in a previous thread. It's non-Scots who are ignorant of why the bid failed.


Fair enough. I hold my hands up. I'd though it was disorganisation on the Irish side more than anything. And I downloaded the bid pdf too.


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## bubomb (Aug 20, 2004)

Iain1974 said:


> Fair enough. I hold my hands up. I'd though it was disorganisation on the Irish side more than anything. And I downloaded the bid pdf too.



The Irish didn't help either. As they had zero definite stadiums in the joint bid. Scotland had 3 definites - 2 in Glasgow and Murrayfield. So it is fair to say that disorganisation by the Irish heavily hindered the bid.


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## cinosanap (Aug 10, 2004)

**

I can't belive Scot/Eire lost to this.
Croke Park should have been made available.
Hopefully with Lansdown Road getting rebuilt we can get another bid in.
We would hav Croke Park, Lansdown Road, Hampden, Murrayfield, Celtic Park & Ibrox which are all over 50,000. If having most of th stadia in one city is problem there is Pittodrie (which may be re-built if we did enter and win), Rugby Park and (if the GAA allow it) Pairc Ui Caoimh and Pearse Stadium. Not but for two small countries.


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## bubomb (Aug 20, 2004)

cinosanap said:


> I can't belive Scot/Eire lost to this.
> Croke Park should have been made available.
> Hopefully with Lansdown Road getting rebuilt we can get another bid in.
> We would hav Croke Park, Lansdown Road, Hampden, Murrayfield, Celtic Park & Ibrox which are all over 50,000. If having most of th stadia in one city is problem there is Pittodrie (which may be re-built if we did enter and win), Rugby Park and (if the GAA allow it) Pairc Ui Caoimh and Pearse Stadium. Not but for two small countries.



but 'may be re-built' is not good enough. UEFA like definite guaranteed plans.

Ireland have zero definite stadiums (Croke Park is not definite as the strange Gaelic people might not allow it to be used, and the stand behind one goal is unusable) and Scotland only has 3 definites (2 in Glasgow, one in Edinburgh). You can only have 2 stadiums in the same city at most.


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## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

Heres a nice view of St.Jakobs Park from the outside: 










It will be a fantastic venue. :yes:


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## Its AlL gUUd (Jan 24, 2006)

bubomb said:


> No, the Austria/Switzerland bid was far better. Definite stadiums, great organisational skills and superb countries to visit with some of the best transport facilities in the world. The Scotland/Ireland bid was all if's and maybe's and was a total mess. It was a complete shambles of a bid and as a result was knocked out at the first round!!
> 
> There was zero suitable stadiums in Ireland and no concrete plans at the time to build one!! It was a pathetic attempt at a bid!!


I would say Scotland were bidding with an Imaginary JointBid because the Irish weren't upto much.


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## Martuh (Nov 12, 2005)

cphdude said:


> Now that _I_ can agree with. And i can tell you noone here was really that crazy about the bid, and we thank god everyday that the bid lost. It would have been a nightmare of monumental porportions, and UEFA thankfully saw that...
> 
> Idd still like to see Danmark host it one day on its own. It will take some work, though no more then the current 2008 bid has to go through...


Denmark only has two stadiums to host: Parken and Brondby.


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## easysurfer (Dec 12, 2004)

Its AlL gUUd said:


> I would say Scotland were bidding with an Imaginary JointBid because the Irish weren't upto much.


The failure of the bid cannot just be blamed on the irish. Afterall, both countries knew the circumstances they were in before going ahead with a joint bid. They should have organised the bid better with each other and been more co-ordinated. It was probably the wrong time for these two countries to make a joint-bid. They should have waited to bid for a games until they were more or less sure they were going to win.


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## Albaniangigi (Feb 22, 2006)

jacob park looks nice from the outside


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## MoreOrLess (Feb 17, 2005)

bubomb said:


> Take away Da Luz and the average size of the stadiums would be almost the exact same as Portugal. The stadiums are smaller because football is less popular in these regions, which means your chances of not getting a ticket due to smaller stadiums will be more than compensated by less local interest. I would say it will be easier to get a ticket in Innsbruck than it would be in Lisbon.


The population of both hosts combined is almost double portugals plus they'll have alot more disposable income to spend so I doubt it will be as easy to pickup tickets(I got everything I went for offically in 2004). Also while Da Luz is only one stadium it hosted 5 games so its impact on the number of tickets available was significant.



> Yes, the more diverse the locations for football tournaments the better. Holding it in Germany, England or Spain all the time is preaching to the converted. If you want to develop and spread the sport, then you have to go to new less traditional locations.


If this bid was the best organised(rather than the one with the best political backing in UEFA) then fair play to them but I think that using the european championships and world cup as mere footballing PR exersizes diminishes their importance. I don't think you can underestimate the positive effect they can have in a large established nation either, getting people back into the game and building on existsing support is afterall easier than trying to bring in totally new fans.


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## Iain1974 (Jun 16, 2004)

bubomb said:


> Yes, the more diverse the locations for football tournaments the better. Holding it in Germany, England or Spain all the time is preaching to the converted. If you want to develop and spread the sport, then you have to go to new less traditional locations.


Personally I'll be very dissapointed if Euro2012 or at the very least 2016 doesn't go east.


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## cphdude (Apr 18, 2004)

Martuh said:


> Denmark only has two stadiums to host: Parken and Brondby.


at the moment yeah, but there are other that could be opgraded and renovated. An one or perhaps two new build, then we are there. I didnt say it was easy, but it wont be impossible...And not when you look at the work they are doing for the euro 2008



Iain1974 said:


> Personally I'll be very dissapointed if Euro2012 or at the very least 2016 doesn't go east.


how far east?


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## bubomb (Aug 20, 2004)

easysurfer said:


> The failure of the bid cannot just be blamed on the irish. Afterall, both countries knew the circumstances they were in before going ahead with a joint bid. They should have organised the bid better with each other and been more co-ordinated. It was probably the wrong time for these two countries to make a joint-bid. They should have waited to bid for a games until they were more or less sure they were going to win.


Yes it can, the Irish were useless!!


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## Noostairz (Sep 11, 2002)

marcobruls said:


> whats with the english stadiums spam?


on reflection i agree and i've deleted that post - it was disrespectful to the purpose of the thread.


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## bubomb (Aug 20, 2004)

MoreOrLess said:


> The population of both hosts combined is almost double portugals plus they'll have alot more disposable income to spend so I doubt it will be as easy to pickup tickets(I got everything I went for offically in 2004). Also while Da Luz is only one stadium it hosted 5 games so its impact on the number of tickets available was significant.
> 
> 
> 
> If this bid was the best organised(rather than the one with the best political backing in UEFA) then fair play to them but I think that using the european championships and world cup as mere footballing PR exersizes diminishes their importance. I don't think you can underestimate the positive effect they can have in a large established nation either, getting people back into the game and building on existsing support is afterall easier than trying to bring in totally new fans.


I cannot think of a better location than Austria/Switzerland. I would much rather visit these 2 countries than some crappy industrial city. History, culture, wealth, the Alps, stunning lakes, sophisticated people....that's why I visit Salzburg every year!! Not a chav or ned in sight!

Even if I don't get a ticket, I won't be that bothered as I will be so busy enjoying what these countries have to offer.


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## Its AlL gUUd (Jan 24, 2006)

Out of all the bids AUstria Switzerland was the right choice. If they had a rival bid challenging them then may be i wouldn't have the same view but they were the best of the bunch.


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## Lostboy (Sep 14, 2002)

I agree - the other bids seemed to be terrible.


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## Martuh (Nov 12, 2005)

Which other bids? I know Switzerland-Austria, Scotland-Ireland, but what more? Poland-Ukraine? Italy? Croatia?


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## Basel_CH (Jan 7, 2006)

Then enlargement of the St. Jakob Park from 30`000 to 40`000 seats is under
construction. The facade is similar like the one from the Allianz Arena in Munich.

http://www.st-jakob-park-plus.ch/


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## Irish Blood English Heart (Sep 13, 2002)

Basel isnt a great place to spend time but the stadium looks cool. I do think the stadiums are maybe too small, a bigger one in Zurich and maybe capacity improvements in Vienna mightve helped.

Perhaps another idea is to assign grounds to teams after the draw so the big games involving teams with fans who travel (like England, Holland etc) can go the bigger stadiums.

Still Im sure it will be a well organised tournament and a success,


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## Enzo911 (Jun 14, 2006)

I would go to Austria-Switzerland in 2008. I really love Basel stadium


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## Seth Gecko (May 23, 2006)

These are all rubbish.


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## Giorgio (Oct 9, 2004)

They are all crap.


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## Seth Gecko (May 23, 2006)

They are all piss poor. A joint bid comprising 8 shyte stadiums!

Ireland you let us down.


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## Its AlL gUUd (Jan 24, 2006)

Since they are increasing the capacity for alot of the stadiums, wouldnt they end up being white elephants?


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## Kampflamm (Dec 28, 2003)

Vienna will be a nice place for Germany to win its 4th euro title.


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

St.Jakobpark by Herzog and DeMeron is fantastic, but Klagenfurt and Zurich will look great as well I guess. The latter is only 2km away from home and I see every day it's development.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Letzigrund is the most special design of the eight. Together with Happel the only one to "stick out".


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## matherto (Oct 17, 2005)

Happel isn't special in anyway, it seems they're giving it minor revisions but it needs some proper renovations and a new design, and Letzigrund has an athletics track, so it's completely stupid to use it as a international football venue


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

What would Letzigrund be WITHOUT athletics tracks?


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## Reaperos (Nov 18, 2006)

dubaiflo said:


> those crappy stadiums are too small :bash:


How did they win the bid with so many crappy small stadia? Bribes?


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## Quintana (Dec 27, 2005)

No, with a solid bid.


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## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

Gotta say that Vienna should have built a big stadium. In the region of 60k maybe.
Portugal which is a much poorer country has managed to built some great venues.
I dont know why its not possible to built at least one big stadium in Austria.


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## Quintana (Dec 27, 2005)

Is there really a need for that after the tournament? Unlike Portugal, Austria and Switzerland seem pragmatic. Don't build what you don't need.


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## Kampflamm (Dec 28, 2003)

Austria can't even fill the ErnHaSta (awesome abbreviation) for international games. They don't need a 60,000 seater. Some stadiums do look a bit crappy though.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Austria can fill the stadium for some games.


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## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

davidkunz/VIE said:


> Austria can fill the stadium for some games.


Thats what I think aswell.
An attractive stadium would automatically attract bigger crowds.
And Im sure that they could fill it for some games of the national squad.
Vienna couldve then hosted a CL or UEFA final at some point.
A city like Vienna just needs a modern stadium.
The Ernst Happel is just outdated and not suited for a Euro final.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

The Happel-Stadium is typically Viennese:
Old, ugly, dirty but oh so lovely.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

From euro2008.com



> Swiss cities sign Charter
> Tuesday, 23 January 2007
> e-mailPrint
> 
> ...


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

From euro2008.com


> Austrian cities pen Charter
> Wednesday, 24 January 2007
> e-mailPrint
> 
> ...


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Don't think we've had this one before:
Innsbruck's Tivoli:


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Together with the slogan *"Expect Emotions."*, the host city logos were launched today, 500 days before the first match:

Vienna (Ferris Wheel)









Klagenfurt (Lindwurm/dragon statue)









Salzburg (Hohensalzburg fortress)









Innsbruck (Golden roof)









Zürich (along the Limmat)









Basel









Bern (Zytgloggeturm)









Geneva (Jet d'eau)


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## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

Another rendering of the St.Jakobs Park










Are there any recent pics from the stadium? 
I guess that it should be finished by now.


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## Kampflamm (Dec 28, 2003)

Looks like a brothel to me.



> Are there any recent pics from the stadium?
> I guess that it should be finished by now.


I hate Stadionwelt. How dare they charge you for their site now. :rant:


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

^^ My thoughts exactly...


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## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

Kampflamm said:


> Looks like a brothel to me.


Good, that will attract bigger crowds.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Another Klagenfurt update:










The stadium's neighbourhood, typical residential area (without NIMBYs, though):


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

From euro2008.com



> Klagenfurt unveils traffic concept
> Monday, 29 January 2007
> by Christian Rosenzopf
> 
> ...


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Praise Küsel for providing us with these pictures from Zürich:

August 06, the old stadium being demolished









The site in September 06









The stadium in January 07:


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## Kampflamm (Dec 28, 2003)

Next time around he shouldn't visit the stadium site in the middle of the night.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

You know, it gets dark quite early in Switzerland.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Kampflamm always gets what he demands:
pictures from today (Again, thanks and credits to Küsel)


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## Kampflamm (Dec 28, 2003)

Pretty sweet. Although the interior with just a single ring looks a bit dull.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Reminds me of the Daimler-Stadion.


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## Kampflamm (Dec 28, 2003)

Yeah. The floodlights look really innovative though.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Will cast interesting shadows.


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## Kampflamm (Dec 28, 2003)

Maybe there won't be any shadows at all. At least that's the case in Berlin (and I suppose in some other German stadiums although I haven't really payed any attention to that).


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Desperately looking for new pictures...

Bern


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

Thanks for posting my pics, David - I was a bit late and didn't know exactly which section you were talking about. But there is a Letzi-section in the Swiss forum now


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

The Wörtherseestadion in Klagenfurt will be opened with the first match of a 4-nations tournament.
Austria will play japan, while, on the same day Switzerland will meet Chile in Vienna. Four days later, Klagenfurt will host Switzerland-Japan and Austria will challenge the Chileans in Vienna.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Updates from UEFA's site:

VIENNA:






































KLAGENFURT:





























SALZBURG:



















INNSBRUCK:










ZÜRICH:






































BASLE:





























BERNE:






































GENEVA:


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

any updates of the St. Jakop Park and the 3rd tier?


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)




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## Kampflamm (Dec 28, 2003)

Any renderings of what Vienna's interior will look like in 08?


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

^^ None unfortunately, as of yet.

I believe that not TOO much will have changed, though.


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## Kampflamm (Dec 28, 2003)

Hopefully the seats will go all the way down to the track.


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

as i know they will add some rows


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

^^ That's what was once said, however, I haven't heard any talk of it recently. The stadium is closed until August (for both matches and visits), so I guess by summer we should be a lot more informed.


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## Letziprinz (Mar 13, 2007)

*Pictures of the FC Zurich Temple Letzigrund*

Check out this page:

http://www.efzezet.ch/gallery/281206

Or the official homepage of City of Zurich:

http://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/internet/hbd/home/planen_bauen/bauten_aktuell_01/stadion_letzigrund.html

Webcam:

http://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/interne...en_aktuell_01/stadion_letzigrund/webcams.html


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## matherto (Oct 17, 2005)

well, Basel's new third tier is poor


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

why?


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## matherto (Oct 17, 2005)

nice amount of pillars, terribly integrated, etc


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

Fresh from the press... I passed by the Letzi today and took these three pictures for you out of the tram:


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## railcity (Apr 4, 2007)

From yesterday's sport show on TV a small piece about Sanya Richards and the Swiss sprinters visiting the construction site of the Letzigrund stadium together with the organiser of the Golden League athletics meeting "Weltklasse in Zurich". You see Sanya Richards performing in the old stadium 9 months ago during the meeting which is the most popular one in the world for many athletes. 

Now the completely new stadium is built on the same place, but with the new ground 8m below surface. The opening will be in September with the "Weltklasse in Zurich" meeting and the football game between local rivals Grasshoppers and FC Zurich. So, thanks to the efficient planning & construction the Athletics meeting will not need to move or take a break this year! This was one of the requirements for the construction company. 

The stadium will be used for the annual Golden League athletics meeting, rock concerts, public sport associations and also as a training center for the football team FC Zurich (with additional football fields outside of the stadium). For the coming appr. four years, the stadium will be the home ground for both professional football teams Grasshoppers-Club Zurich and FC Zurich (until the new 30'000-seater football stadium will be constructed - most probably on the site of the current one). And, of course, it will be one of the 8 grounds of Euro 2008. 

A special feature of the stadium is, that it will be a meeting place for the people living in the area (it's a residential area) with cafes etc. On days without chargeable events, folks can just walk into the stadium directly from the street and hang around. 

Here is the TV report (it's in Swiss and German language, but I guess, the pictures speak for themselves):
http://www.sf.tv/var/videoplayer.ph...0521.rm?start=0:06:30.136&amp;end=0:10:02.584


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## Kampflamm (Dec 28, 2003)

Some pics from kicker.de...don't know how up to date these things are but they look quite alright.

Klagenfurt



















Salzburg



















Innsbruck



















Geneva



















Vienna



















Berne



















Basel



















Zurich


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## Irish Blood English Heart (Sep 13, 2002)

Looking good, shame there wont be many tickets for the fans but they are suitable for these 2 nations. 2012 will solve the seating capacity problems anyway.


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## G.C. (Apr 23, 2007)

Take it the wooden struts in the Zurich pic are being removed and replaced with concrete ones?


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

The stadiums aren't complete yet?


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## Quintana (Dec 27, 2005)

Basel, Bern, Geneva and Vienna are. The other 4 are not.


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## Chimaera (Mar 14, 2007)

G.C. said:


> Take it the wooden struts in the Zurich pic are being removed and replaced with concrete ones?


I think they use this method because the stand is being constructed on a (artificial) hill.

What strikes me is that the Austrian stadiums (except for the existing Ernst Happel Stadium) have steel second tiers. To be demolished after the EURO? (I only know this will be the case in Klagenfurt, what about the others?)


----------



## Kampflamm (Dec 28, 2003)

I think so. Salzburg might keep it but the other clubs definitely don't need a second tier.


----------



## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

How can they not be complete? The ones for 2012 are nearly done, isn't there a 2 year reserve time, that everything has to be ready 2 years before the championship to have time to fix all the minor details?


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## Kampflamm (Dec 28, 2003)

Ones for 2012 are nearly done? :laugh: Did I miss something here?


----------



## Quintana (Dec 27, 2005)

Dr.Mesofius said:


> How can they not be complete? The ones for 2012 are nearly done, isn't there a 2 year reserve time, that everything has to be ready 2 years before the championship to have time to fix all the minor details?


There is no such thing as a 2 year reserve time. Portugal for instance constructed 10 new stadiums. Most of them weren't finished until a few months before the start of the tournament.


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

Kampflamm said:


> Ones for 2012 are nearly done? :laugh: Did I miss something here?


Some are. :laugh: Yes.


----------



## Aka (Jan 2, 2006)

railcity said:


> That's what everybody thought about Greece as well.


And time proved people were right.


----------



## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Don't try and hurt me even more...


----------



## MTF (May 31, 2007)

in my opinion all stadiums are boring hno: hno:


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Deeply sorry, we all forgot it was all about the looks when "we" presented our bid.
However, neither UEFA nor the OC could be convinced that Vienna needs a 70,000+ flashy Calatrava-meets-Foster-bowl.
I got the funny feeling that they were right.


----------



## El Vampiro Ucraniano (Mar 29, 2007)

davidkunz/VIE said:


> Deeply sorry, we all forgot it was all about the looks when "we" presented our bid.
> However, neither UEFA nor the OC could be convinced that Vienna needs a 70,000+ flashy Calatrava-meets-Foster-bowl.
> I got the funny feeling that they were right.


Don't listen to them, your bid is good. Both countries have good stadiums, transport, infrastrucrure, sufficient amount of hotels. I think that all stadiums are of good standart, and capacities are not a problem, you have to look into the future. obviously Vienna doesn't need 60+k stadium that you will not be able to fill in the future.


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## matherto (Oct 17, 2005)

the bid is fine, the stadiums are fine, but the final stadium should be something a bit better to be honest, the only pleasing aesthetic part of the Ernst-Happel is the roof, the rest is dated and could do with a proper touch up, not just a minor one


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

^^ Agreed.
It kind of resembles a museum, but what would you expect from a 1930 stadium?
And it's cool somehow, not sterile and soulless, like numberless other 5*-stadiums. Lots of things happened there...


----------



## SouthernEuropean (Apr 2, 2007)

i think Wörthersee Arena in Klagenfurt is awesome!that's why i voted for that stadium....but which team is going to use it?
....St Jakob Park is also nice and i also like Stadion Salzburg and Stade de Suisse is good with an interesting style...in general i believe the stadiums are nice 
and they DO look great..of course Austria and Switzerland both look fantastic.....can't wait....1 more year...
So yeah it's Wörthersee Arena by me...and where does the final take place?


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## krzysiu_ (Jun 6, 2006)

I agree with matherto, bid is fine, not dull but not awesome, it will be nice tournament and I'm going to visit Swithzerland in 2008 for sure to see it.


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## Kampflamm (Dec 28, 2003)

SouthernEuropean said:


> and where does the final take place?


In Vienna (opening game in Basel).


----------



## chadw_ (May 25, 2007)

some recent pics from the stadium in zurich.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Erm, page 3 is kind of a disgrace for this important thread. 

Anyway. First picture of Salzburg's stadium with the upper tier occupied:









Today the stadium saw its first match in front of 31.000 spectators when Salzburg challenged Arsenal (and won by 1-0, don't ask me how but they did...)


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Some more Salzburg pics:


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## Kampflamm (Dec 28, 2003)

Looks alright, although it's nothing really groundbreaking. Kinda like the Borussia-Park in Mönchengladbach.


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## Benn (Jan 10, 2007)

its a good design considering the upper tier is temporary and will be removed after 2008.


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

Why not just leave it?


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## Benn (Jan 10, 2007)

No need for the extra capacity after the Euro. They would be playing in a half empty stadium for most of their games if they kept 31,000 seats.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Actually, there is some controversy about the upper tier in SZG right now, as the club has plans to keep it, but local politicians have already promised to the (goddamn fucking) NIMBYs that the original size will be kept.


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## railcity (Apr 4, 2007)

Now the solar power station on the roof of Stade de Suisse Wankdorf in Bern is fully developed. The energy production rises up to 1.2 Mil. kilowatt hours per year equal to the annual consumption of about 400 households. 










The new parts were officially put into operation. Now the solar roof surface amounts to 12 ' 000 square metres - before it was 8,000 square metres. The solar power plant on the stadium roof exists for two years. The arrangement was developed because of the big demand for solar stream. It is the worldwide biggest solar power station integrated in a stadium and is worth about 10 Mil. CHF, operated without any subsidies.

sda / 16. August 2007


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## railcity (Apr 4, 2007)

In two weeks, the opening of the new Letzigrund stadium in Zurich will take place. Yesterday evening the interesting illumination has been tested for the first time:

http://www.sf.tv/var/videoplayer.ph...0820.rm?start=0:15:02.989&amp;end=0:15:35.315


----------



## Mo Rush (Nov 13, 2004)

Any recent images of klagenfurt stadium?


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## damti (Mar 9, 2007)

Just wanted to say that the final venue Ernst Happel Stadion is too old ,dated ,to host the final of Euro.I lived in Wienna for 1 year,and it´s a beautiful and quite a big city.So,i don´t understand why football authorities in Wienna didn´t want to build a new big ,modern stadium for 50 thousands,without athletic tracks,where Rapid or Austria could play their BIG european matches.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

^^ Would be the biggest waste of money ever.


----------



## Kampflamm (Dec 28, 2003)

Does anybody have some pics of the new Ernst Happel interior? Does it look any different?


----------



## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

^^ It doesn't. Yet.

I managed to (semi-legally and quite surprisingly) get into the stadium (second tier) today and took the following pics. As you can see, the additional stands across the running tracks are not yet installed, as the tracks will be in use before June.


Now I know that there are people who will never understand my admiration for Happel, but that's just because they've never experienced a match here.































































The very first match I've ever visited was Austria-Belarus in 1997, the last match of the 1998 WC qualification campaign. Austria won 4-0 and WON THE GROUP ahead of Scotland and Sweden! Can you believe it??? It was an amazing match and a great party.









The metro station (u/c until May 2008. Pretty close schedule, but at the moment everything's going according to plan. I even believe that there have already been first trial runs.):


----------



## Kampflamm (Dec 28, 2003)

Nice. I'll be there for a quarter final. The station looks cool but the stadium...I think Basel would have been a better choice for the final.


----------



## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

> Nice. I'll be there for a quarter final.


I hate you for that.
I have been eagerly awaiting this historic month for ages and didn't get tickets.

And about the stadium. It's an iconic bowl, a little Olympiastadion, a little Olimpico, a little Rose Bowl. It offers the kind of atmosphere you don't find in a rectangular stadium.


----------



## Kampflamm (Dec 28, 2003)

> I have been eagerly awaiting this historic month for ages and didn't get tickets.


Well, I didn't get any tickets for the world cup in Germany, so you can take comfort in that.


----------



## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Alright. Let's meet in Nelspruit or Donezk. :cheers:


----------



## Aka (Jan 2, 2006)

davidkunz/VIE said:


> The very first match I've ever visited was Austria-Belarus in 1997, the last match of the 1998 WC qualification campaign. Austria won 4-0 and WON THE GROUP ahead of Scotland and Sweden! Can you believe it???


Yep! It's hard to believe...











Just joking! :nuts:


----------



## skaP187 (Jan 10, 2006)

Why is it that nobody seems to have pics of Tivoli Stadion, Innsbruck?

It´s realy hard finding some on the internet Does it excist?


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## sibyl-vane (Oct 24, 2007)

Here are some Pictures from Tivoli in innsbruck just before completing the expansion of the stadium. Took them from the Stadionwelt-Website.


----------



## skaP187 (Jan 10, 2006)

sibyl-vane said:


> Here are some Pictures from Tivoli in innsbruck just before completing the expansion of the stadium. Took them from the Stadionwelt-Website.


Thank you, but...


----------



## sibyl-vane (Oct 24, 2007)

shit i didn't think of this...how can i upload images from my desktop?


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## skaP187 (Jan 10, 2006)

go to www.tinypic.com

put this in, (direcion, understanding is just an example) 
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=16259115

and then search the photo you want to upload. press upload.

Copy and paste the line with I think the IMG code to this forum.

that´s it!


----------



## sibyl-vane (Oct 24, 2007)

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=52bz6tx&s=1

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=5xr3oz7&s=1

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=6ferjmp&s=1#

ok here we go! cheers mate..


----------



## skaP187 (Jan 10, 2006)

Cheers to you mate! For next time, copy the IMG code then you´ll get this result.
Thanks anyway









You wouldn´t have any picks from the inside would ya?


----------



## Quintana (Dec 27, 2005)

Looks quite nice for a mostly temporarily structure if you ask me.


----------



## matherto (Oct 17, 2005)

I do like the Innsbruck and Salzburg stadiums, they're pretty similar in design.

Innsbruck is a beautiful place aswell.


----------



## sibyl-vane (Oct 24, 2007)

Here are some interior pictures of Innsbruck's new Tivoli-Stadium. From german Stadionwelt


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## railcity (Apr 4, 2007)

*Teams residing in Austria *


*Czech Republic *
Hotel: Dorint Sofitel, Seefeld









Training ground: Sportzentrum Seefeld










*Austria *
Hotel: Balance Resort, Stegersbach









Training ground: Sportplatz Stegersbach










*Croatia *
Hotel: Avita Thermen-Wellnesshotel, Bad Tatzmannsdorf









Training ground: Sportzentrum Oberwart










*Poland *
Hotel: Spa Der Steierhof, Bad Waltersdorf









Training ground: Thermenstation, Bad Waltersdorf










*Italy *
Hotel: Hotel Schloss Weikersdorf Residenz, Baden bei Wien









Training ground: Bundessport und Freizeitzentrum Südstadt, Maria Enzersdorf










*Greece *
Hotel: Arabella Sheraton, Hof bei Salzburg









Training ground: Sportzentrum Aug, Seekirchen










*Spain *
Hotel: Milderer Hof, Neustift









Training ground: Sportplatz Kampl, Neustift










*Russia *
Hotel: Der Krallerhof, Leogang









Training ground: Sportanlage Leogang (new field to be built)


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## railcity (Apr 4, 2007)

*The Official Team-Transfer-Hotels*

Teams who are based more than 120 km away from the venue of their game have to arrive before their game to one of the suggested Team-Transfer-Hotels 24h beforehand:


*Vienna*
NH Danube City









Hilton Plaza









Holiday Inn South (Austrian Team)










*Salzburg*
Castellani Parkhotel









Crowne Plaza










*Innsbruck*
Hilton









Sporthotel Igls










*Klagenfurt*
Holiday Inn Villach









Warmbaderhof










*Basel *
Swissôtel Le Plaza









Ramada Plaza










*Zurich *
Courtyard by Marriott









Swissôtel










*Bern *
Allegro









Schloss Hünigen










*Geneva *
InterContinental









Grand Hotel Kempinski


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## railcity (Apr 4, 2007)

*Hotels of the Referees *

Until 25th June: Mövenpick, Regensdorf (near Zurich)









For the 2nd semi-final and the final: Hotel Renaissance Penta, Vienna










*Hotel for the Journalists*

Hotel Lausanne Palace










*UEFA-Headquarter-Hotels*
(for partners, guests and staff)

*Vienna *
Hilton Vienna Hotel










*Salzburg *
Sheraton Salzburg Hotel










*Innsbruck *
Grand Hotel Europa










*Klagenfurt *
Hotel Schloss Seefels










*Basel *
Les Trois Rois









Hilton Basel









SAS Radisson










*Zurich *
Swissôtel










*Bern *
Allegro










*Geneva *
Grand Hotel Kempinski


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## railcity (Apr 4, 2007)

*Fan-Fests, -Camps & Public Viewing Areas*
There will be up to 100 PVA’s in nice locations all over the two countries – here a small selection of them:


*Vienna*










*Innsbruck*


























*Salzburg*










*Dornbirn*










*Bregenz*










*Kufstein*










*Basel* 










*Liestal*










*Geneva*










*Venues of UBS Public Viewing Arenas in Switzerland*


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## railcity (Apr 4, 2007)

*Aerials of the eight Euro 2008 stadiums *

*Map of host cities*










*Basel * St.Jakob-Park










* Bern * Stade de Suisse










*Geneva * Stade de Genève










*Zurich * Letzigrund










*Innsbruck * Tivoli










* Klagenfurt* Wörtherseestadion










*Salzburg *Wals-Siezenheim










* Vienna* Ernst-Happel-Stadion










Eagerly waiting for you in Zurich… 

http://www.sleep-in.ch/index.php?lang=e


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## railcity (Apr 4, 2007)

Short videos of the stadia:

http://www.sf.tv/var/voting/index.php?catid=staedteduellvoting&docid=stadion

(press on the cameras)


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## dudu24 (Mar 20, 2007)

Stadiums are too small  I got my tickets for all group stage games tho, but still, considering teams in our group.. all 4 would sell 100k+ tickets just for their fans


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## railcity (Apr 4, 2007)

dudu24 said:


> Stadiums are too small  I got my tickets for all group stage games tho, but still, considering teams in our group.. all 4 would sell 100k+ tickets just for their fans


Actually, it would be possible to sell 1-2 million tickets for most games, for some maybe "only" 500'000. Demand is enormous. The biggest demand comes from Switzerland so far. 

The point is: it doesn't make sense to build stadiums for 500'000 to 1 Million people. World Championships and European Championships as events have grown way out of proportion of everyday business. The big majority of applicants anyway will get no tickets. So, if 30'000 or 40'000 out of 1 Million get a ticket doesn't really make a different situation - it's anyway an exclusive few.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

4.120 seats have been added in front of the first tier in Vienna's Happel, increasing the capacity to 51.718. 

Pictures of the current (EURO) appearance:


----------



## lpioe (May 6, 2006)

Letzigrund will have some temporary seats added too if I remember correctly.
I wonder if they will put in grass instead of the athletic tracks like in this picture.









Anyone knows?


----------



## SkyLerm (Nov 26, 2005)

Don't think so...


----------



## skaP187 (Jan 10, 2006)

Dig, dig, dig!!!


----------



## lpioe (May 6, 2006)

SkyLerm said:


> Don't think so...


Neither do I.
It would be very expensive and they need the athletic tracks again in August or September. 
But it would look so much better for football


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## railcity (Apr 4, 2007)

lpioe said:


> Letzigrund will have some temporary seats added too if I remember correctly.
> I wonder if they will put in grass instead of the athletic tracks like in this picture.
> Anyone knows?


I just happened to pass by the stadium by chance today and saw that the temporary seats are installed. The seats have the same colour and if you don't look closely it's not even visible that something has changed.  There is now a bend in the middle of the stands - the lower parts are less steep. But the first row is now pretty close to the field. You can nearly handshake with a player executing a corner. The tracks are still visible, but I'm pretty sure that they will be covered probably with artificial turf because in my experience renderings are always implemented 1:1 here. They are also about to decrease the number of seats on the main stand to give journalists more space.

It was a surprise discovery - sorry, I didn't have a camera with me.


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## railcity (Apr 4, 2007)

Here are some up-to-date pictures of the Letzigrund from flickr with the additional lower stands.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tinopistalu/2214997778/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tinopistalu/2214967640/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tinopistalu/2214122685/in/set-72157603780857806/

The first game in this setting will be the friendly Italy-Portugal, world champion against semi-finalist, on 6th February.


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## railcity (Apr 4, 2007)

In Neuenburg, it is not finalised yet where the Portuguese national team during the euro in 2008 will train. The city recently offered also the stadium of "Maladière" where for this purpose the artificial lawn would be substituted with a natural one for the time during Euro 08. The costs would amount to CHF 350'000.-. 

http://www.20min.ch/em2008/news/story/31894279


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Lol, Turkey's hotel looks more like a giant villa 

I wanna see more pics of St. Jakob


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## Axelferis (Jan 18, 2008)

cold boring stadiums sorry:drool:


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## railcity (Apr 4, 2007)

www.sercan.de said:


> I wanna see more pics of St. Jakob
















































Webcam:


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## railcity (Apr 4, 2007)

I was just wondering why the video-screen is on in the webcam-picture above. Now, it just comes to my mind that tonight at 20:15 CET will be the Swiss Cup game (semi-final) Basel vs. Thun in St.Jakob-Park and they are probably testing it. So, it should be possible to see shots of the game in the webcam.


----------



## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Thanks
Very schön stadium 
What would be the capacity with a full 3rd tier?


----------



## Basel_CH (Jan 7, 2006)

www.sercan.de said:


> Thanks
> Very schön stadium
> What would be the capacity with a full 3rd tier?


For St. Jakob Park, I would estimate around 50`000 to 55`000.


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## Axelferis (Jan 18, 2008)

Basel is a perfect example of what to not do!! hno:

I remember this stadium was so beautiful-> simple design with 2 levels!

Now it looks so awful because euro is coming and they certainly make the upgrade so quickly that the result is a catastroph!!! :rant:

pfffffffff :bash:


----------



## canarywondergod (Apr 24, 2006)

Axelferis said:


> Basel is a perfect example of what to not do!! hno:
> 
> I remember this stadium was so beautiful-> simple design with 2 levels!
> 
> ...


dont worry its only a temporary thing!


----------



## lpioe (May 6, 2006)

^^
Are you sure? 
I thought the same but according to Wikipedia they will only widen the space for each seat after the Euro and the new cap will be 38k.

I generally like the stadium, especially at night, but this facade is just ugly...


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## canarywondergod (Apr 24, 2006)

oh well i was under the intention it was to be temporary too! anyone local able to offer any info?i mean it looks like a temporary design with lots of visible steel and a cheap looking design, as was said it was a lovely stadium but those pillars just ruin it!


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

As i know St. Jakob isn't temporary


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## GunnerJacket (Jan 25, 2008)

Axelferis said:


> cold boring stadiums sorry:drool:





Axelferis said:


> Basel is a perfect example of what to not do!! hno:
> 
> I remember this stadium was so beautiful-> simple design with 2 levels!
> 
> ...


I don't get it. If you're referring to the whole lot as boring than why single out Basel for having a unique feature? If you are calling the others boring due to the simple geometry then shouldn't Basel stand out as having more character? And are you at least giving them credit that the resulting structures are a) complete with modern amenities, b) fit the long-term scale of need for facilities in their communities, and c) may have character features we don't see from distant images? 

Not everything can be a dynamic 50k seater with retractable roof, and many have very limited budgets to work with.


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## Axelferis (Jan 18, 2008)

lpioe said:


> ^^
> Are you sure?
> I thought the same but according to Wikipedia they will only widen the space for each seat after the Euro and the new cap will be 38k.
> 
> I generally like the stadium, especially at night, but this facade is just ugly...



How can an architect could imagine such horriiiible thing?? :uh: ??

If i was the mayor i will recomend the destruction of this master piece of disaster!!


Gunnerjacket-> Stop please everytime refers to 50k arena retractable!! :rant:

The most beautiful stadium isn't a 50k arena in Lille !!!

I prefer far Wembley.
But there are 20k - 30k stadiums which are MUCH better than 50-60k stadiums! Numbers don't matter at all it's a question of design.
Good design does'nt mean automatically much money.

Bern Stadia is beautiful for example. Stop money question! 

Look at Lille old project of renovation of their ancient stadium before it was canceled due to new project:



the cost was 60 million euros for a 33k seater and IMO the design was better than the new one (and Basel too :lol: ) !


----------



## Basel_CH (Jan 7, 2006)

www.sercan.de said:


> As i know St. Jakob isn't temporary


Basel is not temporary, they just compress the capacity about 4000 seaters more during the Euro, but the 3rd stand will stay, after the Euro the St. Jakob Park would have a capacity around 38`000 to 40`000 places.


----------



## railcity (Apr 4, 2007)

canarywondergod said:


> oh well i was under the intention it was to be temporary too! anyone local able to offer any info?i mean it looks like a temporary design with lots of visible steel and a cheap looking design, as was said it was a lovely stadium but those pillars just ruin it!


It's not temporary. The 3rd tier will stay. The capacity for Euro 2008 will be 42'500. After Euro they will reduce it to 38'500 by simply creating more space between the seats (more comfortable seating). The stadium itself will stay the same. 

Originally, Bern was supposed to become the 40'000+ stadium, that's why it's called "Stade de Suisse", kind of a "national stadium". National stadium in Switzerland means mostly hosting the Cup Final. National team games anyway are always hosted in different cities in this federalistic country. The old Wankdorf stadium was hosting the Cup Final for ages, and also the Final of World Cup 1954.

But for the new stadium, Bern was not able to finance the 10'000+ additional capacity. They asked the Swiss Football Federation, but they also didn't have enough money for it. Basel in return found a solution - they are building this small high-rise next to the stadium. The revenues from this are financing the 3rd tier of the stadium. That's why the Opening game, Quarter Final and Semi-Final of Euro 2008 will be in Basel, not Bern. Also the popular Swiss Cup-Finals are now frequently in Basel, and in the future, the games of the National Team with high-interest (eg. against neighbouring countries, Brasil, England etc.). 

It also makes more sense, because FC Basel draws the biggest crowd in Swiss football. Official average League attendance is currently 23'500. This is the number of people in the stadium - average number of sold tickets per league game is about 29'000. Number of sold annual season-tickets for 2008 are 22'500. This is a very high number for Switzerland. Arithmetically, every 7th citizen of Basel has a season-ticket for FCB, and prices are not really cheap. Between 2001 and 2005 the attendance was even a few thousand more.

As I wrote in the Swiss Football League Stadia - Thread, the construction of the new St.Jakob-Park in 1999/2000 was kind of a playground for local architects Herzog/DeMeuron, before they went on to build Allianz Arena and Beijing Olympic Stadium. The extension of the St.Jakob-Park (3rd tier) in 2005-2006 was then the opportunity for them to adapt an idea they had realised in Munich - the illumination. In the Allianz Arena, it's all around, in Basel it's only on one side, the side of the 3rd tier - one can see it from the highway/train and it looks like this when the National Team is playing:

http://www.basel.ch/pictures/full/18581/st.jakob-park_aussen_mit_www.basel.ch.jpg

When FC Basel is playing, it's red & blue.


----------



## railcity (Apr 4, 2007)

Axelferis said:


> How can an architect could imagine such horriiiible thing?? :uh: ??
> 
> If i was the mayor i will recomend the destruction of this master piece of disaster!!


And pay a new one from your own pocket-money? 

Btw., Swiss cities don't have any mayors....



Axelferis said:


> But there are 20k - 30k stadiums which are MUCH better than 50-60k stadiums! Numbers don't matter at all it's a question of design.
> Good design does'nt mean automatically much money.
> 
> Bern Stadia is beautiful for example. Stop money question!


You change your opinion quite frequently. A few hours ago, all Euro-stadiums were cold and boring. Now Bern is beautiful all of a sudden? 



Axelferis said:


> the cost was 60 million euros for a 33k seater and IMO the design was better than the new one (and Basel too :lol: ) !


60 million Euros is quite a lot, that's nearly 100 million CHF. I don't think that any stadium in Switzerland has been that expensive (stadium projects as a whole have, but that included also shopping centers, gyms, residencies, etc.).

In Switzerland, you have additionally to account for the fact, that the wages (for construction workers, architects, engineers etc.) are among the highest in the world. Same thing can be said about the real estate prices. Additionally, environmental standards are very strict, and materials used always of high quality and durability. These factors make every building project much more expensive.


----------



## GunnerJacket (Jan 25, 2008)

Axelferis said:


> Gunnerjacket-> Stop please everytime refers to 50k arena retractable!! :rant:
> 
> The most beautiful stadium isn't a 50k arena in Lille !!!
> 
> I prefer far Wembley.


Fair enough. Presumptuous of me to use the "50k & roofed" angle, but given the precedence of your "boring" line with regard to small stadiums in smaller countries I'm clearly missing your definition of what a small, non-boring stadium is like. 



> But there are 20k - 30k stadiums which are MUCH better than 50-60k stadiums! Numbers don't matter at all it's a question of design.
> Good design does'nt mean automatically much money.
> 
> Bern Stadia is beautiful for example. Stop money question!


Obviously money has SOMETHING to do with it because adding extra architectural detailing, using unique materials and/or developing a unique design requires cost above and beyond minimal expenses. Considering the post above suggests Basel required the construction of a residential/commercial building to help pay the cost of the stadium expansion, clearly efficiency is a factor in the design process. 

Yes, there is more to extracting beauty than through more money, but all I'm saying is we can't assume every project is initiated with the idea of creating the most artful and unique design, and typically smaller stadiums are indicative of a project lacking vast amounts of funds. That's all. Maybe you find them boring, but having only seen the pictures and reading about them I can't fault them too much. 

Let's also not forget these facilities will be judged on their functionality first and foremost and won't have the global stage of, say, Stanley Park, to necessitate too much architectural ambition.



> Look at Lille old project of renovation of their ancient stadium before it was canceled due to new project:
> 
> the cost was 60 million euros for a 33k seater and IMO the design was better than the new one (and Basel too :lol: )!


Very nice.


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## Axelferis (Jan 18, 2008)

Railcity--> :uh: Oh.. Switzerland has not enough money for their stadiums?? I used to think it was a rich country. It seems not be that one in fact :lol:

Turkey,Ukrainia,Poland have more money apparently.Because of their so beautiful stadiums!


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## Witkowski (Feb 11, 2008)

my favorite stadium is the letzigrund in zurich. It's the most unique stadium there, the exterior makes it look like an old classic stadium, unlike the other ones which are all one bland colour pretty much. And the interior is nice all one colour looks organised, bar vienna's stadium because it was built some 70something years ago, all these stadiums were built very recently and the letzigrund i feel has the best design


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## railcity (Apr 4, 2007)

Axelferis said:


> Railcity--> :uh: Oh.. Switzerland has not enough money for their stadiums?? I used to think it was a rich country. It seems not be that one in fact :lol:
> 
> Turkey,Ukrainia,Poland have more money apparently.Because of their so beautiful stadiums!


One of the most important reasons why Switzerland is a rich country is the economical and efficient use of resources. The state is not spending any dime in over-sized prestige projects. This leads also to lower taxes which means more money is left for private investments. This is not only attractive for the Swiss, but also for some foreign companies, so they move from countries with over-sized prestige projects to Switzerland. 

Another factor is federalism, decentralisation, direct democracy. Switzerland doesn't have an Eiffel Tower, but nearly every village has an indoor swimming pool. There are no really powerful people or institutions in Switzerland, money is dispersed around the country and among the people. Through direct democracy, people can vote on what the money is spent for. The building of a new school nearly always gets a "yes" in the public votes. Prestigious projects which cost a lot of money and serve only a select group (eg. football fans) have a lower acceptance. Recent votes in several cities have shown, that the citizens are generally positive about football stadiums and they are ready to provide eg. public real estate or other planning support for it. But they are not ready to spend (much) money from the state budget. 

The only exception is the new Letzigrund stadium in Zurich. This one is purely financed by the city budget. But the citizens approved this project and financing at the ballots only because it is a multifunctional stadium for leisure sports, athletics, the annual "worldclass" meeting, concerts, events, football etc. and serves also as a small park and meeting place for the neighbourhood - it has a restaurant/café and is open everyday for the population. Had it been purely a stadium for professional football, voters wouldn't have approved the money.

As for Turkey, Poland, Ukraine, they all have a lot to catch up economically, and therefore have thanks to their increased openness to the global economy a high rate of growth which is beneficial for new projects. Additionally, there are also a few other special factors that don't account for Switzerland. 

In the Ukraine, for example, there is a huge income disparity in the population. There are a few very rich people and these people then help to build a prestigious project like a stadium in order to buy support & influence in politics & the population or to "clean their conscience". To buy influence in politics is a good investment in such a country whereas in Switzerland for example, if you are interested in making a lot of money, you focus on your business, politics is a waste of time - because political power is so much dispersed, decentralised and democratisized, so it is much more difficult or even impossible to buy political influence with money. 

As for Turkey, I have not enough information. Maybe partially there are also some aspects like in Ukraine. But more importantly, there is of course the question of pure size of the population. Istanbul alone has 10 million inhabitans - so it's a little bit easier to fill a big stadium. 

As for Poland, investment support from other European states/EU might play a role as well (as it did for Portugal or Greece).


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

I like the EURO2008 satdiums. Its hard to design different 30.000 stadiums 
Mainly its only 1 tier like Karasaiki.


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## Golan Trevize (Dec 3, 2005)

These stadiums are a let down after the great stadiums of Euro 04, these are substandard compared to them


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## aachen (Apr 25, 2007)

These stadiums are a shame for switzlerland ans austria. I don't want to mention euro 04, it was great. But after euro 2000 this one will be another tournament with bad stadiums. Do they have money problems??


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## GunnerJacket (Jan 25, 2008)

Golan Trevize said:


> These stadiums are a let down after the great stadiums of Euro 04, these are substandard compared to them





aachen said:


> These stadiums are a shame for switzlerland ans austria. I don't want to mention euro 04, it was great. But after euro 2000 this one will be another tournament with bad stadiums.


How are these a "let down" or bad? I'm not saying you're wrong but there seems to be a trend with people seeing pictures of simple, smaller stadiums and immediately labeling them bad! I don't get it and seriously want to know the reasons for such conclusions, especially when looking at a group of stadiums.

Neither country has the demand for multiple large stadiums nor the desire to spend far more lavishly than they need. Portugal's efforts are to be lauded but by the same token it could easily be argued they overbuilt (capacity wise), that 4 of their new structures are cookie cutter designs and the public funds invested in their stadiums could've been better spent elsewhere. Apart from the top 5 (or so) teams in the Portuguese Superliga everyone draws under 8k, which means it's not as if these clubs are rife with funds or great demands for elaborate designs. Overall avg. attendance has only increased by about 2.5k compared to 2000, so I'm unsure if we can affirm the results have truly paid off financially. 

Thus, considering the top leagues in Austria and Switzerland average under 10k per game save for about 6 clubs combined, the stadiums they've constructed will more than suit the needs of the professional teams and now have complete modern conveniences. What they lack in sex-appeal appears made up for in functionality and keeping the atmosphere of the interior space, which I find most important.

All right, I'm done ranting.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Can you wait any longer? I FUCKING CAN'T!


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## canarywondergod (Apr 24, 2006)

as im english i could wait about hmmm 4 years or so?


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## Basel_CH (Jan 7, 2006)

Bahnsteig4 said:


> Can you wait any longer? I FUCKING CAN'T!


Switzerland plays already on Saturday, Austria first on Sunday, hard time for waiting so long:lol::lol:, Prost:cheers:


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Turkey will play im my fav EURO 2008 stadium
Basel :cheers:
and 2x times in Genf
Would have prefer Klagenfurts stadium


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## De Snor (Jul 28, 2002)

A pic of Sankt Jakob , Basel


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## lpioe (May 6, 2006)

^^ I will be there on saturday


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## michał_ (Mar 8, 2007)

Basel_CH said:


> Don`t keep crying the whole time poor guy! The decision which team plays in which stadium was a draw, except the host teams. Or do you mean Croatia needs a special treatment??


both Croatia and Poland could use some. But don't you worry, we'll have plenty more seats for each group for the final in Vienna


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

St. Jakob Park. Definitely.

The Wörtherseestadion is nice, too. But untill now I don't have any idea why they've builded it there and not in Graz. Ok, GAK and Sturm both faced hard times but at least the city is large enough to have other events for such a stadium.


Btw.: Don't know if this was shown here already, but I'm too lazy to check 20 pages.
The Stade de Suisse is holding the European attendance record for ice hockey matches. The 100th derby of 2007 was joined by 30,000 fans. Seems like it was quite a cool event.


















Kölnarena at Cologne (which is according to my knowledge the largest ice hockey stadium of Europe) "only" has capacity for 18,000 people.


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## Patrick (Sep 11, 2002)

canarywondergod said:


> as im english i could wait about hmmm 4 years or so?


no world cup in 2010 for the english? ok :lol:


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## canarywondergod (Apr 24, 2006)

Patrick said:


> no world cup in 2010 for the english? ok :lol:


im not quite that pessimistic, i meant 4 years as in for the next euro's to start! :lol: if we dont make 2010 i think my laughter will turn to tears, still looking forward to watching some of the high profile games this tournament though, especially the italy, romania, france, netherlands group


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## dudu24 (Mar 20, 2007)

England is in group with Croatia and Ukraine and only 1 qualifies. I can see them failing there, they could do it trough additional qualifications tho.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Not if they finish third.


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## Mo Rush (Nov 13, 2004)




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## dudu24 (Mar 20, 2007)

How does 30k people fit on letzigrund is still mistery to me.  Its nice stadium tho, better than what they had before.


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

i think they will install temporary rows


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## Mo Rush (Nov 13, 2004)

love the timber elements in that stadium and the roof structures.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Letzi is drop-dead gorgeous, really.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

The most recent interior pictures from Vienna you can get. I took them on May, 10, the first day of metro operations to the stadium.


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## Mo Rush (Nov 13, 2004)

imo a stadium can be look better with seats that are the same colour


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Wien stadium's big tier is diveded into 3 parts

Red
White
Red

would b great. Like Asutrias flag









Looks like a brazilian Stadium


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## dudu24 (Mar 20, 2007)

It looks like 80k stadium, it has that massive look. Strange that capacity is "only" 50k. 

They should indeed put Austrian flag like seats, it would look awesome.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Like that?


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Ja

This would be better.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

OK, these pics are not really stadium-related, but with only one day to go until the first match in Vienna, I thought you might be interested in the decorations of the metro station "Stadion":

Some dumbasses couldn't even write the German word for Greece (Griechenland):













































Questioning UEFA's right to determine what beer we are allowed to drink:


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## Quintana (Dec 27, 2005)

Grienchenland :rofl:


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

C'mon... How stupid can you be? How on earth can _that_ happen? :bash:

I mean, someone's supposed to check that, right? Embarassing...


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## dudu24 (Mar 20, 2007)

Maybe some angry Turk was writing it 

Well i guess they will have to fix it  

Btw do you have pics of stadium interiors? With all those Euro ads etc.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Nope, unfortunately, I don't have any pictures more recent than those on page 23. The stadium area was fenced in and closed for the public the day after.
However, when I were there yesterday, I heard noise from the inside and I suppose they were rehearsing for some kind of opening ceremony.


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## Mo Rush (Nov 13, 2004)

dudu24 said:


> How does 30k people fit on letzigrund is still mistery to me.  Its nice stadium tho, better than what they had before.




















10 or so rows of temp seats!


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

Well, the Grienchenland (wuahahaha!!) was there only one day, right? (According to the pics it looks like they change that for every match). Nevertheless, quite embarassing.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

^^ Actually not. It looked like all the teams names were to be there for the whole tournament.


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## Carrerra (Mar 13, 2008)

Here's a funny episode regarding Euro 2008. A famous Korean football journalist(the guy wearing glasses) came across AC Milan's head coach Carlo Ancelotti on the way to Innsbruck for coverage of Spain VS Russia match. This is a real coincidence but in fact that's because two guys got the tickets for speeding at the same place at the same time! Ancelotti was also driving his way to see the game. You can see him holding the receipt of speeding ticket in the second picture.


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

^^
:rofl:
Great little story!


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## Demetrius (Aug 23, 2005)

Yep, judging by Greece's performance against Sweden yesterday , the following could as well have been prophetic  :


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

> Actually not. It looked like all the teams names were to be there for the whole tournament.


Well, I returned there today and saw they have changed it.


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## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

Ive noticed that the seats in many stadiums are very close to the pitch like they are in England, whereas during the wc a safety distance was implemented which meant that in Dortmund for instance a few rows that were close to the pitch were demolished.
Now the UEFA and the FIFA seem to have different safety regulations. Does anybody know more about this?


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## michał_ (Mar 8, 2007)

GNU said:


> Ive noticed that the seats in many stadiums are very close to the pitch like they are in England, whereas during the wc a safety distance was implemented which meant that in Dortmund for instance a few rows that were close to the pitch were demolished.
> Now the UEFA and the FIFA seem to have different safety regulations. Does anybody know more about this?


UEFA as we know have 6m for sidelines and 7,5m for endlines.
Someone here said FIFA World Cup requires 4m more on the sidelines, don't know if that applies for endlines as well.


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## Carrerra (Mar 13, 2008)

michał_;21692989 said:


> UEFA as we know have 6m for sidelines and 7,5m for endlines.
> Someone here said FIFA World Cup requires 4m more on the sidelines, don't know if that applies for endlines as well.


FIFA regulated auxiliary area must have at least 8.5m on the each sideline and 10m on the each endline in the latest FIFA stadium guideline released last year.


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

FIFA says also +6m at the sightlines and +7,5m at the endzone stands
But they say 8,5m at 10m are "better"


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## Quintana (Dec 27, 2005)

Bern is obviously the best


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## railcity (Apr 4, 2007)

www.sercan.de said:


> Portugal has got the big 3
> Turkey and England the big 4
> And Switzerland? 5?
> Grasshoppers
> ...


Switzerland doesn't have any "big something". Teams are popular mainly in their city/region. There are no real nationwide popular clubs like in Portugal or Turkey. 

Grasshoppers and Servette have gained an impressive number of titles, but that doesn't make them more popular than other teams - Servette is even playing only in the 2nd Division right now. Zurich and Geneva are cities with a big population turnover every year - the percentage of locally-born inhabitants is quite small which doesn't make it easier for the football teams to build a steady fan base. In the all-time statistics it looks like this: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesz/zwitalltime.html

The "big 4" in England is not the same like in Portugal, Turkey and Greece. It's just a phenomenon of the last few years only, connected also to a certain self-sustaining dynamic by repeated Champions League participations, but it can change again. 

@Qaabus: you are right in the sense that in a league with 10 teams in Portugal, the 3 top teams would have more weight in calculating the average attendance. On the other hand, anyway, starting from team nr.6 downwards, the average attendance is higher in Switzerland. 

So, if one sees only the big derbies in a country like Portugal, one could draw the conclusion that popularity of football in Portugal is far ahead of Swiss football. But if one looks more closely and sees the average League games, then the picture looks quite different. Plus the most important league games in Switzerland have 30'000-40'000 spectators which is not the level like in some other countries, but also not bad. Switzerland is a decentralised country, not only politically with 26 self-sustaining states/cantons, but also in football.


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## Quintana (Dec 27, 2005)

I might be one of the few but I really like the stadiums that are being used. Sure, they are relatively small but so what? It is not like it matters a lot whether a place holds 50 or 30k. The chances of getting a ticket are still slim to none. In the end, no team ends up with a stadium that is way to big (Braga, Faro or Aveiro anyone?).

Six of the eight (Basel, Bern, Geneva, Innsbruck, Klagenfurt and Salzburg) are real football stadiums with steep stands close to the pitch. Vienna and Zurich are athletic stadiums but temporary seating has closed the distance to the pitch as much as possible and both stadiums can hardly be called ugly or unsuited.


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## Kampflamm (Dec 28, 2003)

I agree. The stadiums in Klagenfurt and Innsbruck look a bit wonky due to the single smaller stand but overall they look quite nice, much better than Nuremberg and Stuttgart for example.


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## mavn (Nov 17, 2007)

Comparing these stadiums to Portugal is unfair.

Portugal should never have hosted a European championship in the first place. Before the EU extension to the east, Portugal was by far the poorest country in the EU. If you compare the average standard of living between Portugal (apart from the 2 big cities) and the Northern eu countries the difference is huge... They're sort of a third-world country by EU standards. They probably used the EU subsidies that they get for being a poor country to build all these lovely, empty stadiums...

Hosting the Euro's is in fact a statement for that since they build 9 stadiums of which 6 are only filled for 10% when the home team plays there... Thats third world country politics in a nutshell. Prestige before people... The money that they've spend on those stadiums could have been given to the normal people. Farmers could have been given a tractor. Instead of them still ploughing the field with an ox... 

Don't get me wrong, the stadiums in Portugal are wonderful. I'm just a bit sad that Uefa awarded the tournament to a country that doesn't deserve and without eu subsidies can't afford it. And to think they even build 1 more than required... Money wasted... And now they're even thinking of hosting a WC... Ridiculous!!!

Switzerland and Austria have build things they need and although the stadiums aren't huge, they are all nice in their own way.


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

mavn said:


> Comparing these stadiums to Portugal is unfair.
> 
> Portugal should never have hosted a European championship in the first place. Before the EU extension to the east, Portugal was by far the poorest country in the EU. If you compare the average standard of living between Portugal (apart from the 2 big cities) and the Northern eu countries the difference is huge... They're sort of a third-world country by EU standards. They probably used the EU subsidies that they get for being a poor country to build all these lovely, empty stadiums...
> 
> ...


Don't worry, we can all read between the lines that you sincerely hate Portugal.


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## dudu24 (Mar 20, 2007)

That was indeed one dumb post.


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## Carrerra (Mar 13, 2008)

dudu24, maybe dudu in your ID is the Brazilian born Croatian forward who got serious ankle injury in an EPL game?


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## mavn (Nov 17, 2007)

Burislav said:


> Don't worry, we can all read between the lines that you sincerely hate Portugal.


On the contrary. I've been there on holiday a few times. Lovely country, lovely people. I don't really like there national team though... I'll give you that.

I might have exaggerated a bit, but 

1. they are a very poor country within a EU context
2. More than half of the 30000 capacity stadiums are filled with 1 to 5 thousand people for the average league match.

These are 2 measurable facts that don't really align with hosting a EC. Whether anyone likes it or not...

Again, I don't hate Portugal, I just think they should never have hosted a EC for those reasons.


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## dudu24 (Mar 20, 2007)

Carrerra said:


> dudu24, maybe dudu in your ID is the Brazilian born Croatian forward who got serious ankle injury in an EPL game?


Correct, he also used to be no24 in Dinamo


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## dudu24 (Mar 20, 2007)

mavn said:


> On the contrary. I've been there on holiday a few times. Lovely country, lovely people. I don't really like there national team though... I'll give you that.
> 
> I might have exaggerated a bit, but
> 
> ...


Those things you said are a perfect reason to give someone Euro. To improve Economy and improve standard of football infrastructure and infrastructure in general. And Portugal didn't loose nothing from it, on contrary it gained far more (earned, if you want).


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## Mo Rush (Nov 13, 2004)

dudu24 said:


> Those things you said are a perfect reason to give someone Euro. To improve Economy and improve standard of football infrastructure and infrastructure in general. And Portugal didn't loose nothing from it, on contrary it gained far more (earned, if you want).


uhm ok.


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## dudu24 (Mar 20, 2007)

Mo Rush said:


> uhm ok.


Same reason why South Africa got it.. let's not kid ourself.


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## Kampflamm (Dec 28, 2003)

dudu24 said:


> Those things you said are a perfect reason to give someone Euro. To improve Economy and improve standard of football infrastructure and infrastructure in general. And Portugal didn't loose nothing from it, on contrary it gained far more (earned, if you want).


I doubt the Euro really had a noticeable impact on Portugal's economy. I don't really get your point that they gained anything either. What's the point in building white elephants all over the country when the money could be used for more useful purposes (general infrastructure etc...same thing with South Africa). Building a 30,000 seater for a team that draws an average of 3,000 spectators is pointless and downright dumb.


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## michał_ (Mar 8, 2007)

mavn said:


> I might have exaggerated a bit, but
> 
> 1. they are a very poor country within a EU context
> 2. More than half of the 30000 capacity stadiums are filled with 1 to 5 thousand people for the average league match.
> ...


Some see that Euro might be a chance for the developing ones, not only a pleasure for rich ones. If FIFA, IOC and UEFA used your criteria, then Athens would have never hosted Olympics, same for RSA World Cup, Euro 2004 an our 2012. It would all just go around from Spain through France and England to Germany and back. I bet you would be soooo pleased.

Give farmer a tractor?! :lol: so you're the good communist and Portgual the bad communists cause they cared more for prestige? Spare it...


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## Kampflamm (Dec 28, 2003)

Some countries shouldn't host these events until they've reached a certain level of development. Judging by some newspaper articles, Poland/Ukraine 2012 could turn into a disaster. I'm not opposed to those countries (eg South Africa) hosting these kinds of events but they need to do their homework beforehand.


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## michał_ (Mar 8, 2007)

Kampflamm said:


> Judging by some newspaper articles, Poland/Ukraine 2012 could turn into a disaster. I'm not opposed to those countries (eg South Africa) hosting these kinds of events but they need to do their homework beforehand.


Judging by some newspaper articles, Poland and Ukraine wouldn't ever be given the chance to host Euro and Austria and Switzerland are too small (in case you read nothing before the Euro 2008 selection was made- that was the mood). Still, they did it, accepted enormous amounts of supporters and are doing surprisingly well coping with the crowds. Also, Euro in Prtugal was also said to be a possible disaster- I remember apocalyptic news that the will never build the stadiums (Somgaue's subcontractors blocking construction sites, etc.). Thankfully it's not the newspapers to decide.


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## mavn (Nov 17, 2007)

michał_;21751910 said:


> Some see that Euro might be a chance for the developing ones, not only a pleasure for rich ones. If FIFA, IOC and UEFA used your criteria, then Athens would have never hosted Olympics, same for RSA World Cup, Euro 2004 an our 2012. It would all just go around from Spain through France and England to Germany and back. I bet you would be soooo pleased.
> 
> Give farmer a tractor?! :lol: so you're the good communist and Portgual the bad communists cause they cared more for prestige? Spare it...


The debt that the current Greek administration is in is staggering. They'll still be paying of those debts in 50 years time. All thanks to the Olympics.

The tractor example I gave was merely an attempt to show the extend in which way Portugal was behind in GDP to the other EU members. NOT to insult the Portuguese in any way. I'm all for the Ukraine/Poland bid. These are countries that are relatively poor because they come from a communist background. In 20 years time however I wouldn't be surprised if they were more prosperous than many western european countries. And above all, they have the amount of people to sustain the stadiums. Portugal has has 10 million inhabitants. Poland and Ukraine 85 million combined...

I'm from a small (but relatively rich) country myself (Holland) and I would love to see a World Cup or Olympics in my country. But not at the EXPENSE of my country. The Greeks are either to ignorant or to proud to organize an event that puts their country on the verge of bankruptcy...


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## Quintana (Dec 27, 2005)

mavn said:


> The money that they've spend on those stadiums could have been given to the normal people. Farmers could have been given a tractor. Instead of them still ploughing the field with an ox... .


Class


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## michał_ (Mar 8, 2007)

I think the Greeks were too uneconomical and their bid wasn't well thought through. If countries of size and potential (in filling the venues to make them profitable) of Austria and Switzerland can host a Euro that will be beneficial for them, then Greece shouldn't have a problem hosting smaller Olympics (I know, number of venues is high, but their standard doesn't have to be and more of them can be built temporarily). The fact they made no good outcome is their fault, but not an argument against giving the organization to smaller countries.

You think Holland wouldn't make good Olympics? I think you would do fantastic and have a lot of benefits from it without the white elephant effect. Just like the World Cup for which you are bidding after all...

By the way- calling Holand a relatively rich is either false modesty or ignorance my friend 
Or at least it shows the difference in scale considering viewpoints. For me Poland is a relatively rich country. Sierra Leone is poor...

PS: I still have problem understanding you point of view after what you wrote about Poland and Ukraine... 



mavn said:


> The tractor example I gave was merely an attempt to show the extend in which way Portugal was behind in standard of living to the other EU members.


My parents didn't use an ox to plough, we had a horse... Does the communist background make us proviliged in any way if our situation is quite like Portugal's?


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

BTW, today we need to say goodbye to Stade de Genève! :wave:


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## mavn (Nov 17, 2007)

michał_;21753104 said:


> I think the Greeks were too uneconomical and their bid wasn't well thought through. If countries of size and potential (in filling the venues to make them profitable) of Austria and Switzerland can host a Euro that will be beneficial for them, then Greece shouldn't have a problem hosting smaller Olympics (I know, number of venues is high, but their standard doesn't have to be and more of them can be built temporarily). The fact they made no good outcome is their fault, but not an argument against giving the organization to smaller countries.
> 
> You think Holland wouldn't make good Olympics? I think you would do fantastic and have a lot of benefits from it without the white elephant effect. Just like the World Cup for which you are bidding after all...
> 
> ...


The Olympics aren't smaller than an EC! Last time I checked, the Olympics were still bigger than a WC... Although I think it depends on the basis of which you define big... Attendance, Cost, Revenue, attending nations, tv audience, ...

I definitely think we could host the Olympics and a WC. But if our economy would suffer from it we shouldn't do it. 

I don't think building 9 new stadiums for a three week event of which 6 will cost more in maintenance than comes in from revenues (let alone building costs) is not the way to do it. Our (the dutch side at least) WC bid will probably include not even 1 "world cup stadium". All stadiums that would be used will be build regardless of a worldcup.

Organizing these kind of events will always mean you're doing extra than absolutely necessary. It' shouldn't mean however going completely overboard like Portugal did with their stadiums.

When I said "relatively rich" I said that because we're a small country. On total GDP we're 20th in the world. On GDP per capita 10th. If you want to call that rich that's fine by me. 

You're communist background doesn't make you privileged. It is however a clear reason as to why your infrastructure, economy, and so forth is still behind on the western European countries. Even "eastern" Germany is economically still behind the western part although they've been the same nation again for nearly 20 years.


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## ingstad (Nov 6, 2007)

Hello. 
Can someone post photos taken before, during and after the matches of Euro 2008? Both inside and outside the stadium ... if possible.


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## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

www.sercan.de said:


> http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/tou..._recommendations_and_requirements_en_8211.pdf
> 
> 
> BTW, Allianz is 6m and 7,5m (main stand is 9m) nad it was a WC 2006 venue
> ...


Thanks, can you give me the link to the UEFA aswell?


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Actually i have never seen a UEFA regulations about Stadiums.
Could be the same like FIFA ones


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## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

www.sercan.de said:


> Actually i have never seen a UEFA regulations about Stadiums.
> Could be the same like FIFA ones


But that was why I was wondering whether the FIFA and the UEFA impose different rules since the spectators seem to be pretty close to the pitch in some stadiums?


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

As i know the first rows stay empty in some english stadiums.


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## lpioe (May 6, 2006)

GNU said:


> But that was why I was wondering whether the FIFA and the UEFA impose different rules since the spectators seem to be pretty close to the pitch in some stadiums?


Which stadiums in particular are you talking about?
The distance may look close on the TV because of the camera angle but I don't think it is as close as f.e. in some english stadiums where they sit more or less directly behind the advertising boards.


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## Mo Rush (Nov 13, 2004)

Kampflamm said:


> Some countries shouldn't host these events until they've reached a certain level of development. Judging by some newspaper articles, Poland/Ukraine 2012 could turn into a disaster. I'm not opposed to those countries (eg South Africa) hosting these kinds of events but they need to do their homework beforehand.


What sort of homework. I dont think being a part of the world by hosting events and addressing the issues of a country are entirely exclusive concepts. I think both can be achieved. South Africa has steadily built up a track record by bidding for world cups, the olympic games, and hosting rugby,cricket world cups and tons of high profile conferences and events. The 2006 and 2010 bids were both highly detailed and satisfied FIFA requirements.

The World Cup in South Africa is extremely significant in terms of the acceleration of the development of infrastructure. Billlions of rands are finally being allocated to projects from transport to communications. Some projects date back to the 70's e.g. Durbans new airport. This would not have happened without the world cup.

At the same time poverty is being addressed with a substantial increase in social grants due to record tax revenues. The issue is rather the underspending of funds rather than a lack of funds to host events and meet the needs of citizens.

Each country has its own challenges and I dont doubt that Poland and Ukraine will overcome these and host a fantastic tournament at the same time. From the list of venues proposed and in planning, it certainly looks to be a success.


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## Carrerra (Mar 13, 2008)

Mo Rush said:


> What sort of homework. I dont think being a part of the world by hosting events and addressing the issues of a country are entirely exclusive concepts. I think both can be achieved. South Africa has steadily built up a track record by bidding for world cups, the olympic games, and hosting rugby,cricket world cups and tons of high profile conferences and events. The 2006 and 2010 bids were both highly detailed and satisfied FIFA requirements.
> 
> The World Cup in South Africa is extremely significant in terms of the acceleration of the development of infrastructure. Billlions of rands are finally being allocated to projects from transport to communications. Some projects date back to the 70's e.g. Durbans new airport. This would not have happened without the world cup.
> 
> ...


:applause::applause::applause:


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## michał_ (Mar 8, 2007)

GNU said:


> Thanks, can you give me the link to the UEFA aswell?


I've only got our Polish translation right now (can't remember what name it was in English to find- surely was about cup finals), but it clearly says that distances of 6m (sidelines) and 7,5m (endlines) are recommended.
If that is of any help...


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## theespecialone (Jun 3, 2008)

Mo Rush said:


> What sort of homework. I dont think being a part of the world by hosting events and addressing the issues of a country are entirely exclusive concepts. I think both can be achieved. South Africa has steadily built up a track record by bidding for world cups, the olympic games, and hosting rugby,cricket world cups and tons of high profile conferences and events. The 2006 and 2010 bids were both highly detailed and satisfied FIFA requirements.
> 
> The World Cup in South Africa is extremely significant in terms of the acceleration of the development of infrastructure. Billlions of rands are finally being allocated to projects from transport to communications. Some projects date back to the 70's e.g. Durbans new airport. This would not have happened without the world cup.
> 
> ...


:banana::banana::cheers::cheers:


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## Carrerra (Mar 13, 2008)

Pirlo goal!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forza Italia!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Patrick (Sep 11, 2002)

Carrerra said:


> Pirlo goal!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forza Italia!!!!!!!!!!!


wrong thread.

After seen all stadia in TV, my impression is that the one in Genève is the ugliest. Basel's is a good one.


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## michał_ (Mar 8, 2007)

Patrick said:


> After seen all stadia in TV, my impression is that the one in Genève is the ugliest. Basel's is a good one.


true. TV impression of St. Jakob Park is by far the best. I'd put Klagenfurt 2nd and have a lot of sympathy for Letzigrund as well...


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## ChryZ (Aug 28, 2007)

Bahnsteig4 said:


>












:hilarious


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## Carrerra (Mar 13, 2008)

*Euro 2008 under guard of Euro Fighter*


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## theespecialone (Jun 3, 2008)

amazing photos


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## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

lpioe said:


> Which stadiums in particular are you talking about?
> The distance may look close on the TV because of the camera angle but I don't think it is as close as f.e. in some english stadiums where they sit more or less directly behind the advertising boards.


I dont remember the exact stadium to be honest (Ill have another look on the net) but just generally I had the impression that in some games the fans were quite close to the pitch which caught my attention since I rememberd that they demolished the front rows of the sideline stands in Dortmund before the wc.


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## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

michał_;21792129 said:


> I've only got our Polish translation right now (can't remember what name it was in English to find- surely was about cup finals), but it clearly says that distances of 6m (sidelines) and 7,5m (endlines) are recommended.
> If that is of any help...


Well yes thanks. I just would have liked to read through it myself to see whether there are any exemptions or whether different rules are imposed in the CL etc.


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## lpioe (May 6, 2006)

Imo:

1) Vienna 
2) Basel (very nice inside but one facade is very ugly)
3) Klagenfurt


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## Flight-FGB (Jul 27, 2009)

Thats great!

From where did you get this lots of information?


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## TEBC (Dec 26, 2004)

they could host for a WC


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

TEBC said:


> they could host for a WC


:weird:


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## TEBC (Dec 26, 2004)

they could *bid* for a WC


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