# Are full-size SUV's sold only in North America (Canada, Mexico and the USA)?



## Alejandro_MEX

*Hello folks!!!

I've just returned from a trip to Japan last week, and I was in Europe in April. I didn't see large SUV's in any of those countries, just in some hotels as "luxury" cars (I guess they're imported). I haven't been to the Middle East yet, but as these cars consume a lot of gas, the might be sold there...

Do you know if these cars are sold only in North America? They're very popular in Canada, Mexico and the United States.*


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## hkskyline

Well .. given the space restraints and lower car use percentages in Japan and Europe, I doubt these huge monsters are popular.


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## KB335ci2

This is the largest SUV sold in India, the Ford Endeavour/ Everest
It looks MASSIVE on Asian roads, but pales in comparison to the Expedition and such...


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## GTR22

The reason why the Expedition is not seen in Europe or Japan a lot is because they would have the hardest time trying to manuever through the very narrow street. Top Gear did a thing on the H2 and the British roads, lets just say the locals werent too happy having to drive partially on the sidewalk to get around the thing.


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## Svartmetall

They're sold in NZ as we have huge wide roads here. The new Dodge SUV is HUGE! Looks like a minature tank on the road.


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## ChrisZwolle

You see them in Europe too, but not very often. I saw a number of them in Denmark, and also in the Netherlands from time to time. I can't say they're very popular. Normal sized SUV's are still common on the roads, but they're often not American since they don't sell as much here. Why buy a gas-guzzling American car while you can buy an SUV of almost the same size of Japanese/German/etc brand that consumes half of the US fuel usage?


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## Whiteeclipse

I'm starting to see more and more full size SUV's in Russia.

But for Western Europe and Japan, gas is expensive in Western Europe so therefore they like small cars.


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## Lydon

You see them in South Africa pretty often..


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## _Night City Dream_

They are extremely popular in Russia. Especially, that may sound strange, in big cities and in Moscow in particular. They are very often popular where there's no need to use them.


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## He Named Thor

ChrisZwolle said:


> You see them in Europe too, but not very often. I saw a number of them in Denmark, and also in the Netherlands from time to time. I can't say they're very popular. Normal sized SUV's are still common on the roads, but they're often not American since they don't sell as much here. Why buy a gas-guzzling American car while you can buy an SUV of almost the same size of Japanese/German/etc brand that consumes half of the US fuel usage?


Have any particular examples?


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## ChrisZwolle

The Chevy Suburban (or other SUVs) consume like in the 1:5 to 1:8 range. (1 liter to x km). European SUV's are doing a little better, usually in the 1:10 to 1:14 range, especially when you have a diesel powered engine. I haven't seen an American SUV on diesel yet here in Europe.


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## DanteXavier

Full sized SUVs such as the Toyota Land Cruiser are actually sold all over the world. The Land Cruiser does well thanks to it's iconic status. Honda only markets its full sized SUV(the Honda Pilot) in North America. Same with Nissan's Pathfinder Armada(US Only). The Nissan Patrol and the Mitsubishi Pajero(which I think qualify as full sized SUVs) have found success around the world, but aren't sold in North America. Hummers, because of their iconic status, are all over the world from Angola to France to Australia. 

The large American SUVs(I speak particularly of the REALLY large ones, such as the Chevy Suburban pictured in the first post) are much less common worldwide. Outside of the US, you're probably more likely to see them in the middle east. Nations like Saudi Arabia and the UAE are major customers for American military and civillian equipment thanks to their energy resources, and as a result American products are far more common there than they are in other parts of the world. Governments there use them to transport officials(as opposed to other nations in Europe and Asia where luxury sedans are more commonly used). 
The middle east is also one of the few places outside of North America where you'll find full sized American sedans like the Ford Crown Victoria:










Those are just about nonexistant in Europe and Asia. The Middle Eastern markets are the only places outside of NA where you'll see Crown Vics and Mercury Grand Marquis'. 

Australia is more tolerant of large American vehicles as well. There was at one time a Holden Suburban.










I don't think that Ford and GM market their large SUVs in Australia anymore, though. You can't even buy an Escalade there unless you import it privately. 
To sum it up,full sized SUVs have a following worldwide. The truly massive, ultra-large American SUVs(those made by GM and Chrysler in particular) only seem to have large followings in North America and the middle East, as well as Russia to a lesser extent. The only American SUVs that seem to have a following worldwide are Hummers.


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## He Named Thor

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Chevy Suburban (or other SUVs) consume like in the 1:5 to 1:8 range. (1 liter to x km). European SUV's are doing a little better, usually in the 1:10 to 1:14 range, especially when you have a diesel powered engine. I haven't seen an American SUV on diesel yet here in Europe.


What are these European SUV's? I highly doubt they are anywhere near as big as the Suburban (which is the largest SUV we make). Apples to apples please. 

I could be wrong here, but I'm almost positive most of the Jeep lineup is available with a diesel in Europe.


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## He Named Thor

DanteXavier said:


> The large American SUVs(I speak particularly of the REALLY large ones, such as the Chevy Suburban pictured in the first post) are much less common worldwide. Outside of the US, you're probably more likely to see them in the middle east. Nations like Saudi Arabia and the UAE are major customers for American military and civillian equipment thanks to their energy resources, and as a result American products are far more common there than they are in other parts of the world. Governments there use them to transport officials(as opposed to other nations in Europe and Asia where luxury sedans are more commonly used).
> The middle east is also one of the few places outside of North America where you'll find full sized American sedans like the Ford Crown Victoria:
> 
> 
> 
> Those are just about nonexistant in Europe and Asia. The Middle Eastern markets are the only places outside of NA where you'll see Crown Vics and Mercury Grand Marquis'.
> 
> Australia is more tolerant of large American vehicles as well. There was at one time a Holden Suburban.
> 
> 
> I don't think that Ford and GM market their large SUVs in Australia anymore, though. You can't even buy an Escalade there unless you import it privately.
> To sum it up,full sized SUVs have a following worldwide. The truly massive, ultra-large American SUVs(those made by GM and Chrysler in particular) only seem to have large followings in North America and the middle East, as well as Russia to a lesser extent. The only American SUVs that seem to have a following worldwide are Hummers.


Russia supposedly has some Crown Victorias too. I've seen a few pictures of them in police fleets there.


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## DanteXavier

He Named Thor said:


> Russia supposedly has some Crown Victorias too. I've seen a few pictures of them in police fleets there.


I wouldn't be suprised. I'm sure there are a number of Town Cars there to go along with some DTS'.


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## spongeg

i was in Loncon UK and I saw a ginat SUV - I think it was a chevy suburban - it had american plates too - and appeared to be driven by an american and she was having the hardest time parking - in soho - in fact a crowd was watching her park

I guess for whatever reason she decided to ship her big SUV over to london while she lived there

was quite an odd site to see


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## Manila-X

They sell it in The Philippines usually the *Ford Expedition*


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## Manila-X

Alejandro_MEX said:


> *Hello folks!!!
> 
> I've just returned from a trip to Japan last week, and I was in Europe in April. I didn't see large SUV's in any of those countries, just in some hotels as "luxury" cars (I guess they're imported). I haven't been to the Middle East yet, but as these cars consume a lot of gas, the might be sold there...
> 
> Do you know if these cars are sold only in North America? They're very popular in Canada, Mexico and the United States.*


Japan's roads are not as wide as US ones. American cars aren't suited in Japan


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## hkskyline

Actually, the US government has been lobbying the Japanese for many years to provide open access for American automobile manufacturers to the domestic Japanese market. However, given how much further ahead Japanese car makers are, I don't think even now with more relaxed regulatory restrictions, the Americans have gained a decent foothold.


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## isaidso

Large SUV's make more sense in many parts of America. I spent some time in northern Ontario last winter and *everyone* had a truck or SUV. About a third of the vehicles were the full sized variety. 

It's not a densely populated region of the world, the weather can be harsh, and gas is cheap. The locals pull their powerboats to the lakes in the summer, snowmobiles to trails in the winter, and haul bulk items all year round. You need the horsepower, size, and safety that a full sized SUV provides. In places like Toronto they don't make much sense.


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## goschio

Full size SUV are not common at all in Germany. Just too big, low status, high gas consumption and not really good for the autobahn.

People prefer normal SUV from Porsche, BMW, Audi, Mercedes or Volkswagen.


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## eomer

goschio said:


> People prefer normal SUV from Porsche, BMW, Audi, Mercedes or Volkswagen.


You are right: Porsche Cayenne is more interesting for European roads...









An other great SUV: The Infiniti FX50 (Infiniti is Nissan's luxury brand like Lexus for Toyota)


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## gabrielbabb

In Mexico the most sold are

SUVs (2008)

Honda CR-V 11.249
Jeep Patriot 8.177
Chevrolet Suburban 7.323
Ford EcoSport 6.797
Ford Escape 6.251
Nissan X-Trail 6.224
Toyota Rav4 5.335
Mazda CX-7 4.684
Mitsubishi Outlander 4.472
Chevrolet Captiva Sport 4.462
Nissan Rogue 2.980
Jeep Liberty 2.737
Ford Explorer 2.496
Ford Edge 2.357
Chevrolet Tracker 2.295
Dodge Nitro 2.212
Ford Expedition 2.192
Toyota FJCruiser 2.069
Jeep Compass 2.029
Jeep Grand Cherokee 1.989



luxurious SUVs(2008) 

Hummer H3 1.574
BMW X5 1.357
Cadillac Escalade 1.382
VW Touareg 1.127
Acura MDX 934
Audi Q7 873
Mercedes ML 648
Lincoln MKX 598
Volvo XC90 403
Lincoln Navigator 302
Porsche Cayenne 117
Acura RDX 108
Hummer H2 96
Range Rover 85
BMW X6 75


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## He Named Thor

eomer said:


> You are right: Porsche Cayenne is more interesting for European roads...


How dare you post that... that... Travesty! It has no place being in Porsche's lineup.


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## spongeg

nissan armada is a huge thing


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## Rebasepoiss

SUV's are very popular in Estonia(unfortunately), perhaps not full-sized but still. Honda CR-V is the most popular car in Estonia, for example :crazy:
People who buy those huge SUV's (Hummer H2, Cadillac Escalade) have a "small dick - big ego" problem, IMO.


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## Lydon

Rebasepoiss said:


> People who buy those huge SUV's (Hummer H2, Cadillac Escalade) have a "small dick - big ego" problem, IMO.


Or they just like the cars? Honestly...


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## DanielFigFoz

In Portugal they are rare, but in the UK they are more common, like the HONDA C-RV for example.


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## gabrielbabb

^^ what about Chevrolet Suburban ?? which is kind of ..... BIG


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## Perennial Quest

Here in Italy the SUVs were quite popular some time ago. In 2007/ beginning of 2008 their selling had its peak, but now it became critical.
Anyhow the "full size" suvs (amercian style) are very rare, while the european big ones (ML, Touareg, Cayenne, X5, X6 etc.) are diffuse. There are quite a lot of the medium sized ones (Nissan Qashqai, Toyota Rav4, Ford Kuga, Volkswagen Tiguan etc.)


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## Rebasepoiss

Lydon said:


> Or they just like the cars? Honestly...


I don't understand how anybody can like a car that's ugly, "eats" a lot of fuel, has bad handling, is not as comfortable as saloon cars and isn't very practical either? So where are the good sides? Good off-road abilities? :lol: What's the percentage of SUV drivers who have driven their car off-road? 2%? And if you really like off-roading, you'll buy a Land Rover Defender or any other serious 4x4 instead. Of course, everybody has their opinions so I have mine


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## DanteXavier

DanielFigFoz said:


> In Portugal they are rare, but in the UK they are more common, like the HONDA C-RV for example.


The CR-V isn't a full sized SUV.


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## Lydon

Rebasepoiss said:


> I don't understand how anybody can like a car that's ugly


Not everyone thinks they're ugly.


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## DanteXavier

Rebasepoiss said:


> I don't understand how anybody can like a car that's ugly,


What's "ugly" to you is entirely subjective. I think the Cadillac Escalade looks pretty cool. I feel the same way about the Land Cruiser. You may disagree. The fact is that you can't take a subjective matter and use it as backing for your argument.



> "eats" a lot of fuel,


People like luxury sedans and sports cars to. Not everyone looks for fuel economy first and foremost when purchasing a vehicle. 



> has bad handling,


Not everyone wants great handling either. You think every family is going to the track on weekends?



> is not as comfortable as saloon cars and isn't very practical either?


This is actually just plain wrong. Part of the reason people buy giant SUVs like the escalade and Land Cruiser is due to their comfort and practicality. Some families actually need to tow 9000 pounds of boat/trailer and carry 4 kids, 2 parents and a dog with luggage to go camping or boating. In some regions of North America, Suburbans and Tahoes and the like are quite common because many families there really do need the practicality they offer. Other vehicles just won't do the job. 
That said, an Escalade owned by a a 3 person family in the middle of the city may be pointless. I'd agree with that, because such a vehicle is impractical in an urban environment. In other environments, however, such vehicles can be the most practical.

As for the comfort aspect, many large SUVs are very comfortable. There is a TON of room in every seat(even the 3rd row) and the ride(especially on luxury models like the Escalade, Denali or land cruiser) is very, very cushy. Nevermind the amenities those vehicles offer. I don't know where you got the idea that they were not comfortable.



> So where are the good sides?


Like I said, it depends on who you are. 



> Good off-road abilities? :lol: What's the percentage of SUV drivers who have driven their car off-road? 2%?


It is higher than that.

In either case, SUVs do provide a level of competency in bad weather conditions that few cars can. 



> And if you really like off-roading, you'll buy a Land Rover Defender or any other serious 4x4 instead.


Not if you're a working person who cannot afford to buy a vehicle JUST for offroading and will need to commute in it to. Nevermind if that fellow also has a large family to carry around on trips and such. 
A Tahoe, Escalade, Pathfinder Armada, Hummer or Land Cruiser might work for that guy. If he wants, he can still install a few little upgrades to the chassis and take it off road once in a blue moon



> Of course, everybody has their opinions so I have mine


Sure, but you have to respect those of others to.


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## goschio

Rebasepoiss said:


> I don't understand how anybody can like a car that's ugly, "eats" a lot of fuel, has bad handling, is not as comfortable as saloon cars and isn't very practical either? So where are the good sides? Good off-road abilities? :lol: What's the percentage of SUV drivers who have driven their car off-road? 2%? And if you really like off-roading, you'll buy a Land Rover Defender or any other serious 4x4 instead. Of course, everybody has their opinions so I have mine


Having 4x4 is very useful during European winter with all the snow and ice on the streets. Of course you don't need to drive a SUV. There are several small 4x4 cars like the Audi3 for example.


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## Rebasepoiss

DanteXavier said:


> What's "ugly" to you is entirely subjective. I think the Cadillac Escalade looks pretty cool. I feel the same way about the Land Cruiser. You may disagree. The fact is that you can't take a subjective matter and use it as backing for your argument.


I was just explaining why I think about SUV's the way I do.


DanteXavier said:


> People like luxury sedans and sports cars to. Not everyone looks for fuel economy first and foremost when purchasing a vehicle.


True, I just mentioned one of the bad sides of and SUV.


DanteXavier said:


> Not everyone wants great handling either. You think every family is going to the track on weekends?


Well, OK, I understand you. Different from the USA, our roads have curves.


DanteXavier said:


> This is actually just plain wrong. Part of the reason people buy giant SUVs like the escalade and Land Cruiser is due to their comfort and practicality. Some families actually need to tow 9000 pounds of boat/trailer and carry 4 kids, 2 parents and a dog with luggage to go camping or boating. In some regions of North America, Suburbans and Tahoes and the like are quite common because many families there really do need the practicality they offer. Other vehicles just won't do the job.
> That said, an Escalade owned by a a 3 person family in the middle of the city may be pointless. I'd agree with that, because such a vehicle is impractical in an urban environment. In other environments, however, such vehicles can be the most practical.


Isn't like Ford Galaxy a car that's meant for large families. There are many other cars as well that can do the job better than SUV's. And most (American) SUV's can handle ridiculously little weight.


DanteXavier said:


> As for the comfort aspect, many large SUVs are very comfortable. There is a TON of room in every seat(even the 3rd row) and the ride(especially on luxury models like the Escalade, Denali or land cruiser) is *very, very cushy. *Nevermind the amenities those vehicles offer. I don't know where you got the idea that they were not comfortable.


That's what makes it so uncomfortable. I really don't like constant swinging when driving.


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## DanteXavier

Rebasepoiss said:


> I was just explaining why I think about SUV's the way I do.


That's fine if you think that way. People are only arguing with you because you generalized the other side("big ego small dick") without even analyzing the facts. Its one thing to state your opinion, but generalization without any factual backup doesn't do anything positive. 
If you don't like large SUVs just say so. Don't stereotype everybody who has one or may want one.



> True, I just mentioned one of the bad sides of and SUV.


I'm just asking you not to forget the good sides. Some people need them and not everyone thinks they're ugly.



> Well, OK, I understand you. Different from the USA, our roads have curves.


And Americans have an obsession with camping and fishing, etc, etc.



> Isn't like Ford Galaxy a car that's meant for large families. There are many other cars as well that can do the job better than SUV's. And most (American) SUV's can handle ridiculously little weight.


We are talking about full sized SUVs-Hummers, Escalades, Suburbans, etc, etc. Those can handle ridiculously HEAVY weights. No family vehicle tows more than them.
As far as family hauling duties, yes, minivans like the Chrysler Town and Country do the job as well if not a little better. But they don't carry nearly as much as, say, a Chevy Suburban. And, as I said before, many families might require that towing ability in addition to the family hauling. 



> That's what makes it so uncomfortable. I really don't like constant swinging when driving.


Again, these aren't designed to be sports cars. They're not gonna take a corner well at high speed or zip through the slalom. If you drive them at moderate speeds, though, they're fine and quite comfortable. 
And I don't know of this constant swinging you speak of. These things aren't agile, but they certainly aren't constantly swinging on the road. None of the reviews mention this and neither do drivers. Again, if you drive them normally...

Here's an Escalade review to make my point


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## sapmi1

Stockholm and Sweden in general is packed with SUV:s.


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## Dreamliner

goschio said:


> Full size SUV are not common at all in Germany. Just too big, low status, high gas consumption and not really good for the autobahn.
> 
> People prefer normal SUV from Porsche, BMW, Audi, Mercedes or Volkswagen.


*American SUV's are designed and built for the American market. The SUV was invented here, remember? Wide streets, plentiful, affordable fuel and a consumer base that always has been accustomed to larger vehicles assure a market for them. The American government doesn't abusively tax fuel here. Therefore much more people can afford to run one...unlike other governments that want to maintain large,V6, V8 and V12 powered vehicles exclusively for the upper classes. I'm middle-class, and I own a 2007 Ford Expedition with a V8 (Google it) And I enjoy it everyday. As for low status, have you ever seen one? Ever rode in one? Do you know anyone who has? If you saw one, in wherever it is that you live, I doubt very much it was being driven by someone of the working or middle classes. Most likely, it must have been driven by someone of the upper classes. How could they afford the cost of fuel otherwise? I don't think most wealthy persons would drive something of "low status", do you? As for "bad for the autobahn", what you really must mean that they don't handle like an European vehicle. Well DUHHH, they're trucks! They're NOT designed to handle the same way. They are marketed here mostly as comfortable, strong, safe, spacious transportation, built to get you there through snow, heavy rain, mud and sand. You can't compare apples to oranges.
*


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## Dreamliner

Rebasepoiss said:


> People who buy those huge SUV's (Hummer H2, Cadillac Escalade) have a "small dick - big ego" problem, IMO.


*Oh and since you're so concerned, it's 7.5 inches, 19.1cm. erect. *


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## Lydon

I certainly hope your attitude isn't representative of your entire country's, as, excuse the pun, you come across as extremely cocky.


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## goschio

Dreamliner said:


> "Low STATUS"[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B][/I]*??? First of all, American SUV's are for the AMERICAN market. After all, Americans INVENTED the SUV. Our streets are wide and our gas prices are far more affordable. Most people out side America simply aren't used to driving a true, full size vehicle, can not afford to maintain it and the local conditions, i.e. street and roads are too narrow to make them practical. If you can AFFORD to maintain a true, full size SUV in Germany, then my friend you have money, and THAT would equal HIGH Status in your country.
> 
> I'm middle-class, and I own a 2007 Ford Expedition with a nice V8 (Google it) And I enjoy it everyday.
> *


*

That's why nobody wants an American SUV in Germany. Not suitable for the German market. And yes, German SUV have much higher status than some Ford or GM full size SUV.*


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## Dreamliner

Lydon said:


> I certainly hope your attitude isn't representative of your entire country's, as, excuse the pun, you come across as extremely cocky.


*No ONE person could represent an entire country or culture. You know, ...it's called individuality. Like most people would, I take issue when some ill mannered, ill informed, envious snob writes I drive junk and have issues with my masculinity. One can express an opinion without offending anyone. I don't know about you, but I find that kind of unprovoked behavior reprehensible. Manners don't cost a thing.*


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## RawLee

The only way such huge vehicles can park here:









(varos.blogter.hu)


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## Lydon

Dreamliner said:


> *No ONE person could represent an entire country or culture. You know, ...it's called individuality. Like most people would, I take issue when some ill mannered, ill informed, envious snob writes I drive junk and have issues with my masculinity. One can express an opinion without offending anyone. I don't know about you, but I find that kind of unprovoked behavior reprehensible. Manners don't cost a thing.*


Then you sir need to practise what you preach.


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## Dreamliner

Lydon said:


> Then you sir need to practise what you preach.


*And you sir need to read and comprehend posts before writing an opinion. And it's spelled practice not practise.*


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## Lydon

Dreamliner said:


> *And you sir need to read and comprehend posts before writing an opinion. And it's spelled practice not practise.*


I have read, and I have comprehended you post and came to the conclusion that you have no manner of talking to people. You come across as, to be quite honest, extremely self-righteous.

And no, it is indeed practise here in South Africa.


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## Rebasepoiss

Lydon said:


> I certainly hope your attitude isn't representative of your entire country's, as, excuse the pun, you come across as extremely cocky.


Ok, I'm sorry that I generalized things so much and I'm sorry if I offended some of the SUV owners here, BUT in Estonia, SUV is in most cases bought just to show how much money you have. SUV owner here are also most likely to park on handicap places, sidewalks etc(Like on Rawlee's picture) so SUV owner are mostly total pricks. That's just my experience. (And I still don't understand the point of an SUV if you live in a city)

Also: 


Rebasepoiss said:


> SUV's are very popular in Estonia(unfortunately), perhaps not full-sized but still. Honda CR-V is the most popular car in Estonia, for example :crazy:
> People who buy those huge SUV's (Hummer H2, Cadillac Escalade) have a "small dick - big ego" problem, *IMO*.


IMO - In my opinion. I also listed the arguments why I think so so I don't see the problem.


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## Lydon

Rebasepoiss said:


> Ok, I'm sorry that I generalized things so much and I'm sorry if I offended some of the SUV owners here, BUT in Estonia, SUV is in most cases bought just to show how much money you have. SUV owner here are also most likely to park on handicap places, sidewalks etc(Like on Rawlee's picture) so SUV owner are mostly total pricks. That's just my experience. (And I still don't understand the point of an SUV if you live in a city)
> 
> Also:
> 
> IMO - In my opinion. I also listed the arguments why I think so so I don't see the problem.


No matter...I wasn't talking to you so no offense taken


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## Dreamliner

Lydon said:


> I have read, and I have comprehended you post and came to the conclusion that you have no manner of talking to people. You come across as, to be quite honest, extremely self-righteous.


*No, you don't comprehend. If you'd bother to reread the posts, you actually may realize that it was not I who started this. I was simply responding to an unprovoked slur. If you have some issue with someone defending themselves then you sir are simply picking an argument where none exists. Perhaps you enjoy playing devils advocate, perhaps you're bored. Perhaps you're one of those poor souls that haunt forums, always sticking their noses in other people's disagreements because you feel ignored and lonely. I don't know, nor care to find out. This ends here, you'll have to find someone else to stroke your ego.
Good Bye, Good Luck, Good Riddance. *


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## Lydon

Dreamliner said:


> *No, you don't comprehend. If you'd bother to reread the posts, you actually may realize that it was not I who started this. I was simply responding to an unprovoked slur. If you have some issue with someone defending themselves then you sir are simply picking an argument where none exists. Perhaps you enjoy playing devils advocate, perhaps you're bored. Perhaps you're one of those poor souls that haunt forums, always sticking their noses in other people's disagreements because you feel ignored and lonely. I don't know, nor care to find out. This ends here, you'll have to find someone else to stroke your ego.
> Good Bye, Good Luck, Good Riddance. *


Being a neutral party in said argument, and this being a free forum in which I can express what I want to express, I felt the need to point out you being rude. I don't care that you didn't start the argument...it is the way in which you responded that made you look idiotic. 

You seem unable to prove your case, but instead resort to insulting me and pointing out what you thought were mistakes in my grammar. Yet another example of your self-righteous attitude, as had you not attempted to be self-righteous yet again you would not have made yourself look like an idiot. Your attempt at making me look like an idiot in fact backfired.

It is that attitude that made me respond to your post in the first place. Thank you for making my job easier by yet again showing it.


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## Maxx☢Power

Dreamliner said:


> *And you sir need to read and comprehend posts before writing an opinion. And it's spelled practice not practise.*


And you sir need to lay off the crayons, it looks like you ate them all and puked on the screen. Very annoying.


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## DanteXavier

Pics of Large SUVs:

Cadillac Escalade:


























Escalade and a Hummer H2:










Escalade EXT:










Escalade ESV:










Hummer H2:










Ford Expedition:


















Lincoln Navigator:


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## jacobboyer

^^ Sexy as shit.


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## Inconfidente

Is this question serious?


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## LosAngelesMetroBoy

Dreamliner.... im bigger than you 

And the line about 'bad fuel effiency' is crap. Back in the states i drive an 06 ford ranger that gets 29MPG. And i have enough power to pull 2 jet skis or my buddies sport fisher. I love SUV's but cant afford the gas for em unfortunately. And no there not just sold in the US, there sold in most developed countries. Smaller SUVs are sold in developing countries cuz of the smaller roads


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## NorthWesternGuy

^^Just a word about all of those full-sized SUVs:

Obsolete...


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## Xusein

Dreamliner said:


> *Oh and since you're so concerned, it's 7.5 inches, 19.1cm. erect. *


Thanks for sharing that interesting tidbit with the rest of us. :sly:uke:

And no, SUVs are also quite popular in the Arabian Peninsula. Probably because of the cheap gasoline, I presume. 

And I'm sure they are sold in Europe and Asia, they just are not as popular (although they are not as popular in the US all that much anymore either).


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## GTR22

Those big boxes are what is putting GM in the hell hole. I mean why do you need three types of Escalades!????


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## worldwide

i hope this economic meltdown is extremely painful for the drivers of these "retard cars"


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## diz

WANCH said:


> They sell it in The Philippines usually the *Ford Expedition*


No way, Philippines?

This is the biggest SUV I've ever ridden... and I'm from America.


----------



## ptto

LosAngelesMetroBoy said:


> And no there not just sold in the US, there sold in most developed countries. Smaller SUVs are sold in developing countries cuz of the smaller roads


You'll see many more full-sized SUVs in Estonia, Ukraine or Romania (not to mention Russia) than in western european nations.

Touaregs, Rangeys, Q7, Cayennes, etc. had their five minutes of glory these last 3-4 years, but it's gone. 2nd hand dealers are full of them now.


----------



## He Named Thor

GTR22 said:


> Those big boxes are what is putting GM in the hell hole. I mean why do you need three types of Escalades!????


Actually the Escalade is one of the bright spots at GM. The truck is regarded as very cool, and many of the people that buy them are loaded anyway so they can buy the things regardless of gas prices. 

The different variants don't cost that much to make. They are almost entirely the same, just a few little modifications. Less work than making a wagon/estate version of a sedan.


----------



## GTR22

I also noticed GM tries very hard to market itself in movies, such as Transformers, yet nobody has been buying the Pontiac Solstice, but the Charger seems popular and the Camaro seems to be taking forever to come out. Also in Quantam of Solace, Ford is a big prescense. I was wondering if those Edge Hydrogen models were real or just to fit in with the movie?


----------



## DanteXavier

GTR22 said:


> Those big boxes are what is putting GM in the hell hole. I mean why do you need three types of Escalades!????


Actually, there are 4 types.


















That's the hybrid version!:bash:

I love Escalades, but that's redundant. GM chose a bad time to focus on developing their trucks as opposed to their small car lineup. They should have focused on more smaller hybrids first. As for the other 3 versions, I don't mind them. I kind of like the EXT. 
And like Thor said, the Escalade has given Cadillac a TON of street cred. Cadillac is arguably GM's brightest star right now.


----------



## ryanr

diz said:


> No way, Philippines?
> 
> This is the biggest SUV I've ever ridden... and I'm from America.


Yes. The Ford Expedition is quite popular in the Philippines and are sold in local Ford dealerships. It is usually seen as a status symbol so many of the elite and celebs have one. There are also Chevrolet Tahoes, Chevy Suburbans, Cadillac Escalades (non-dealer imported) and Lincoln Navigator (non-dealer imported), Nissan Armadas (non-dealer imported) and Toyota Sequoias (non-dealer imported), but the Expedition is by far the most popular. 

Out of the "non-US fullsize SUVs" Toyota Land cruiser and Nissan Patrol are very popular too. 

With the recent gas prices, more of the rich are starting to choose the BMW X5, Mercedes ML, Volvo XC90, Range Rover, Porsche Cayanne and Audi Q7 over the American full-size SUVs.

Jan 2008 - April 2008 Full-size Sales (keep in mind that these figures are waaay down compared to previous years due to high fuel prices)

BRAND MODEL *SALES*
Chevrolet Suburban *57*
Chevrolet Tahoe *32*
Nissan Patrol *147 *
Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer *65*

(There were 46 BMW X5s and 37 Porsche Cayannes sold in the same period)


----------



## DELCROID

Venezuela is full of SUV´s !!!!! (1 out of every 4 vehicles): Toyota, Jeep, Ford, Chevrolet, Mitsubishi, etc etc...there are even many clubs, shows, competitions, assembly factories and small companies manufacturing accesories (roof-tents, bull-bars, etc). 


"Fun Race 4x4" - competition:























"AWA 4x4" - competition:


















Some clubs:






























These are 4x4´ers going to the Venezuela Off Road Festival: 













 











A 2007 promo for the Venezuela Off Road & Adventure Festival:






Stands:


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## DML2

DanteXavier said:


> Here's an Escalade review to make my point


Holy shit I want one of those!


----------



## NorthWesternGuy

How about these ones? I know they´re pick-ups, but are almost the same.

Taken by me, a few minutes after an earthquake:lol:



I liked them because they use diesel engines


----------



## DELCROID

Most 4x4s in Venezuela have gasoline motors as petrol is very cheap: 0.12 $ cents per Gallon (or 0.03 € cents per Liter)....that´s probably one of the main reasons they are so popular and affordable. Also, many large familes normally have them because of their bigger space... so rather than being a status symbol people have them out of need: terrain and difficult traffic conditions requires rugged and safe vehicles for both rural and urban areas. I don´t think it´s a big deal having a 4x4 in Venezuela, on the contrary, it is perceived as something rather normal as people buy them for their practicality. I think 4x4´s have become part of the culture as people have them not just for everyday use but for week-end fun too. 

Hummers right now might be seem a bit more of a luxury item and although they are rather expensive there is great demand for them. The opening of a new official distribution network will lower the prices and expected sales will be some 3.000 units per year (H2, H2 SUT-pick up type and H3). European luxury suv brands are not common. Ford, Toyota, GM, and Daimler-Chrysler top the sales.



Some images here:







4x4´s in Venezuela  :












































































































































































































































































other competitions:






"Reto Extremo 4x4":







this is a promo:






"Campsur 4x4":












"Ecotravel 4x4"












.


----------



## Assemblage23

I dislike both SUVs and Pick-Ups. They are dangerous for us people who drive decent-sized cars; it frustrastes me a lot whenever one of those things gets in front of me, because my visibility get very limited.

Too many pictures BTW.


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## NorthWesternGuy

^^If your visibility gets limited, you should consider buying this one


----------



## VikramRao

NorthWesternGuy said:


> ^^If your visibility gets limited, you should consider buying this one


And we wonder why the govt is still thinking about saving the big 3 ? This is just absolute crap.


----------



## tvdxer

VikramRao said:


> And we wonder why the govt is still thinking about saving the big 3 ? This is just absolute crap.


That truck is (was) manufactured by International, which is not one of the big 3 and is better known for making commercial trucks.


----------



## DELCROID

Assemblage23 said:


> Too many pictures BTW.




What are you talking about!!!??? ....not as many as other threads one gets to see around with literally hundreds of pictures in them and no one complaining about it ..!!!! hno: ... want some examples?...perhaps you may like to say the same thing about them too...it´s a pretty long list BTW

...perhaps people who do like suvs also like to see pictures of them, ..perhaps people who do like whatever topic consecuently do like to see many pictures on that topic and wouldn´t have anything against that...


----------



## spongeg

i saw a Ford F-650 driving around downtown the other night

i don't know why someone would use it as an everyday vehicle










to give you an idea of size to people and other cars - it literally shadows all others


----------



## goschio

Full size SUV are something for developing countries or developed ones with large rural areas and severe weather.


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## GTR22

Why the hell do those need to run in the cities!??? I mean how can you haul any large machinery in that thing without using a crane to lift it into the flatbed?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's intended as a commercial truck. It has a standard 45 gallon tank, but 160 gallon is optional :nuts: It still gets 14 mpg (= 1 liter to 6 km).


----------



## DanteXavier

GTR22 said:


> Why the hell do those need to run in the cities!??? I mean how can you haul any large machinery in that thing without using a crane to lift it into the flatbed?


Just to be clear, vehicles like those are extremely rare. I've never seen one on the road. They are really intended, as Chris said, to be used as commercial trucks.


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## Jonesy55

nerdly_dood said:


> Many people around here actually need large vehicles - my dad for example needs a bigger truck than he has now, a 1995 chevrolet silverado half-ton... It does what he needs, much less than what he wants... He's a landscaper and the truck has to labor slowly up the steep hill his current job is on when it's loaded with dirt or mulch.


Yeah, obviously tradespeople, gardeners, electricians, builders etc need big vehicles to cart stuff around in, that's the same everywhere. Here they tend to drive vans like these more often than big SUVs though although not always.


----------



## GTR22

The Dodge Sprinter recently hit the US. I've seen quite a few already driving around the city. They look better than those Econolines. Ford should bring the transit to compete since Chrysler doesn't have long to live even with bailout money.


----------



## tvdxer

dösanhoro said:


> They are slow because they are too wide. They cause delays for everyone. Is not the way to get popular. Today I saw a suv pickup for the first time. That thing was wide. The other cars coming from the opposite direction had to yield between parked cars because of the width.
> 
> I wonder what is the point of these vechicles. Judging by what I saw I wonder if they are even built for transporting goods in the rear. It looked awfully urban in some way. The rear was smaller than I thought. I wonder what people who really need utility vechicles think about them. Does anyone of them really use something like Dodge Ram?


As for pick-up trucks, quite a few of their drivers do indeed use them for work, especially construction work...they can also be very useful for hauling things, whether wood, bikes, ATVs, pop-up trailers, etc. and generally are good in the snow (at least if they are 4 x 4) or off road. On the other hand, many pick-up driver almost never (or never) use their pick-up beds and drive the vehicles as they would a car. Many even turn them into "low riders" by lowering their ground clearance and modify them to look better. Why? Simply because a lot of Americans like the pick-up truck "aesthetic". Pick-ups are seen as manly, powerful, and are an image of the "country lifestyle" a lot of Americans respect or even aspire to. 

Most SUVs are not used for work (in my experience). Those who drive them 
often have families to carry around, or simply think they are safer or are nicer.


----------



## tvdxer

Jonesy55 said:


> Yeah, obviously tradespeople, gardeners, electricians, builders etc need big vehicles to cart stuff around in, that's the same everywhere. Here they tend to drive vans like these more often than big SUVs though although not always.


A lot of Americans businesses do the same. My family's own business owns a fleet of 15-seater vans that installers use to carry carpet and other flooring supplies. Back in the day, we would spend the $500 or so needed to buy a junky old van and run it until it broke down, in which case we'd buy another one. Now we have nicer (but still used) vans with our logo painted on them.


----------



## dösanhoro

Most maintenance people use almost always Ford Transit style trucks. I have seen a few pickup trucks in the countryside. I found the Dodge thing I saw ridiculous because the open storage area was so small and the car wider than the cars I mentioned. I feel it is not really useful as a pickup for I don't know , a farmer for example. :nuts:


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## sapmi1

Common view from Stockholm. The SUV-owners park everywhere and don't care about the parking fines since they can easily pay them... :bash:










Common SUV:s in Stockholm:

Range Rover:










Audi Q7:










Volvo XC90










Lexus RX


----------



## Houstonian

^^^^ 

All of those are commonly seen in the U.S also, especially the Lexus RX, Volvo XC90 and the Range Rover.


----------



## DanielFigFoz

The question was "Are full-size SUV's sold only in North America (Canada, Mexico and the USA)?"

The awnser is no.


----------



## TakeMeHigher

We do get full sized (gross sized?) SUV's over here in Europe but the drivers tend to get laughed at - a lot. 

Consequently they are often driven by boxers, who still get laughed at - even more.


----------



## nerdly_dood

Jonesy55 said:


> Yeah, obviously tradespeople, gardeners, electricians, builders etc need big vehicles to cart stuff around in, that's the same everywhere. Here they tend to drive vans like these more often than big SUVs though although not always.


What i meant by the comment you replied to is that pickup trucks and utility trucks are mostly used - as tvdxer said, SUVs are mostly used for people transport.

Vans, which look much better than the larger alternative, the box-truck, aren't as accessible as pickup trucks - you can dump mulch, soil or whatever into the back of a pickup truck by a frontloader - which would be very difficult to do with a van, so vans are mostly used by utility companies for small jobs to hold hand-tools and smaller equipment. Personally I don't see why the various manufacturers can't just use the same style of van worldwide, but most of our utility vans are Chevrolet Express and Ford E-series vans, which are wider and shorter than the European Mercedes Sprinter (which is slowly gaining popularity in America as the _Dodge_ Sprinter) and the Ford Transit (not sold in the US - we have the E-series)

Enough talk about work trucks - this thread's about SUVs.


----------



## rosn19

You know, SUV'S in Mexico are not THAT popular as they are in the USA and Canada. Here I see more volkswagen bora, pointer, derby, and renaults and peugeouts and nissans and also a few fiats. SUV'S here are seen, but no as commonly as in the northern neighbouring countries. My step father is from louisiana, and when his family comes here, they laugh at all the "funny looking" european cars, they say those cars look like trycicles, and they make fun of my mom's 206 peugeot, and they say it is unsafe because "it aint big and safe like a ford suv". i dont like suvs, they take up too much space and consume too much gas, and here if you have one those things you are an easy target for it to get stolen. that guy that opened this thread made it sound as if 90% of the people in mexico have them and are able to afford them, when their price is usually at 400,000 pesos (about 40,000 eur,im not sure), most people i know that drive those things here, think they are all that, and like to show off all the time and act like they are all tough by running red lights, honking at people and passing cars in the highway at 160km/hr while flicking them off with the middle finger while talking on their damn cellphonehno:. Most people here buy volkswagen (probably the most popular one), renault, peugeot, nissan, toyota, fiat, mitsubishi and just not very long ago chinese FAW, most of these being regular size cars, and not SUV'S.


----------



## nagara373

*Scandinavia*

Large SUVs are not available in Iceland, Denmark, Norway and Sweden.


----------



## nagara373

sapmi said:


> Common view from Stockholm. The SUV-owners park everywhere and don't care about the parking fines since they can easily pay them... :bash:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Common SUV:s in Stockholm:
> 
> Range Rover:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Audi Q7:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Volvo XC90
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lexus RX


not large SUVs


----------



## Random_Guy

My neighbour drives one of these:










But he's a huge fan of American cars, so I guess it's an exception. American SUVs are not so popular in Poland. Asian and European SUVs have become pretty popular recently, though. Well, I envy the owners, especially now during the heavy snowing.


----------



## Alfa-Omega

rosn19 said:


> You know, SUV'S in Mexico are not THAT popular as they are in the USA and Canada. Here I see more volkswagen bora, pointer, derby, and renaults and peugeouts and nissans and also a few fiats. SUV'S here are seen, but no as commonly as in the northern neighbouring countries. My step father is from louisiana, and when his family comes here, they laugh at all the "funny looking" european cars, they say those cars look like trycicles, and they make fun of my mom's 206 peugeot, and they say it is unsafe because "it aint big and safe like a ford suv". i dont like suvs, they take up too much space and consume too much gas, and here if you have one those things you are an easy target for it to get stolen. that guy that opened this thread made it sound as if 90% of the people in mexico have them and are able to afford them, when their price is usually at 400,000 pesos (about 40,000 eur,im not sure), most people i know that drive those things here, think they are all that, and like to show off all the time and act like they are all tough by running red lights, honking at people and passing cars in the highway at 160km/hr while flicking them off with the middle finger while talking on their damn cellphonehno:. Most people here buy volkswagen (probably the most popular one), renault, peugeot, nissan, toyota, fiat, mitsubishi and just not very long ago chinese FAW, most of these being regular size cars, and not SUV'S.


In mexico SUV's are very popular, you can see more SUV's in mexico that in other europeans or asian countrys, specially in towns, the mexican market is a mixture of American, european and asian cars. obiusly the cheaper are the most popular but you can easy see SUV, pick ups, etc. in the streets

this is a video of a common street in guadalajara mexico, you can figure the kind of cars and compare with other countrys


----------



## DanielFigFoz

I've been seeing a lot of LHD american SUV'S and Pickup's recently.


----------



## Luli Pop

full size SUVs are so uncivilized


----------



## chornedsnorkack

What is certain is that full size SUV-s are only produced in USA for now. Lincoln Navigator L is 567 cm long (SWB is 529 cm long), while Town Car LWB is 562 cm and Town Car SWB is 547 cm. Cadillac Escalade ESV is 566 cm, short version is 514 cm, while DTS is 527 cm.

True, full size SUVs take up space in road and burn fuel, but so do big sedans. Mercedes is associated with Maybach, and Maybach sedans have lengths of 573 and 616 cm. Mercedes also produces GL-class SUV, which is just 510 cm long - but there is no Maybach SUV. Rolls-Royce produces Phantom sedan (in lengths 583 and 609 cm), as well as Drophead Coupe (561 cm long), but there is no Rolls-Royce SUV. Bentley produces Mulsanne sedan (558 or so cm) and Brooklands coupe (541 cm), but there is no Bentley SUV.

Does Hongqi have any plan for SUV?


----------



## Magnus Brage

sapmi said:


> Stockholm and Sweden in general is packed with SUV:s.


yes, also family vans as the Toyota Previa and Chevy TransSport are common. 

One vehicle I miss is the Toyota Tundra. Not availbe here as far as I know.












sapmi said:


> Common view from Stockholm. The SUV-owners park everywhere and don't care about the parking fines since they can easily pay them... :bash:


The old Town of Stockholm is the only place where SUVs don't fit, unless you want to park on the pavement ,which means a hefty fine. But if you drive a SUV here you probably can afford it.


----------



## lafreak84

SUVs are not popular in Europe because of two main reasons. First reason is fuel consumption (very bad mileage + very high fuel prices) and second reason are high taxes to be paid for such vehicle. There are SUVs on our streets however but most popular are pretend-SUVs-actually-SAVs (X5, Q7, Range Rover, Porsche Cayenne...), smaller SAVs (X3, Q5, RAV4, Captiva...) and really small SAVs (X1, Qashqai, Kuga...). SAVs tend to be smaller and don't have off-road capabilities (only on paper) but are popular in Europe because they are cheap to maintain (smaller engines->better mileage->smaller taxes). Real SUVs (Ford F series, Dodge RAM...) are for countries with cheap gas and small taxes (North American countries) and not for Europe. Besides maintenance costs, another problem are narrow streets and small parking spaces which, at least from I know, are still defined by 80' standards when cars were much much smaller than today.


----------



## 1000city

nerdly_dood said:


> My car is a 1999 Ford Taurus, which measures 197.5 x 73 inches, and is considered a midsize car. (The bumpers are kinda soft, so i guess if you push the pumper with your hand it then fits your definition?)
> 
> The newer Taurus is 202.9 x 76.9 inches and is considered a full-size car. (Compare to the car typically thought of as simply enormous, the Crown Victoria, at 212 x 78 inches)


Those diferrences between US, Europe and Japan can be funny sometimes. For You up there 5-meters 3,5 V6 car is a family car, an ordinary commuter. Why I made because 5-meters-assumption is that in Europe very few cars exceed this limit. Formentioned Q7 and GL-class, luxury saloons and coupes (MB S and CL, BMW 7, Audi A8, Jag XJ, VW Phaeton) and high-end exotics (RRs, Bentleys, Maybachs, Bristols etc.). I drive 5,5m/217in. long Renault Master panel van sometimes and find it hard to park and maneuver in city enviroment. I like american cars and SUVs with those massive bodies and engines, but they just don't fit here  Fuel is just one of the issues, can be bypassed by LPG conversion in many countries.



Magnus Brage said:


> Alfa Romeo is car with a nice sporty design, but service-costs are stellar. Every 80.000 km you have to change the timing belt, which means lift up of complete engine, cost about 1000€.
> 
> I was speculant of a Alfa Romeo 166 for 2000€ but the timing belt had to be changed,so it wasn't worth it.


Actually the 159 is much more reliable and easier to maintain than older Alfas. It shares underpinning with Oplel Vectra C. That includes many of the engines. And in ADAC/DEKRA ratings it scores better than german counterparts. It's a good, not just beautiful car. But not particulary practial, that's true.



Kixnet said:


> Mercedes-Benz GL Class's are sold in the UK and probably Germany. But I don't know about the rest of Europe.


It's available in other euro states too, but never got popular in any. It's too large and expensive (in Poland for 1 basic GL man can get nearly 1,5 basic ML, both 3,0 diesel powered). GL was designed for US, it's made in US and fits there, not here. Still, I like it's design a lot :cheers:



Magnus Brage said:


> GL means Geländewagen:- Off road-vehicle. The GL had the same look since 1979 to the early 2000's. Nothing about the exterior of the car changed through the years, but the pricetag sure did. Having that in mind this car was not very popular.


You confused G-class with GL-class. GL is full-size SUV, ang G is classic off-roader. Very good car, but also very expensive. I'd love to buy the G-class cabrio, but can't afford unless I win the lotto  90k EUR/123k USD for the basic one, equivalent of a nice flat in my city :nuts:


----------



## loefet

nerdly_dood said:


> Scandinavia has a legitimate need for SUVs. With such a cold snowy climate, front-wheel-drive cars are better than older rear-wheel-drive cars, but 4x4 vehicles are much better than either of those, so you'll see more Chevy Tahoes, Volvo XC90s, etc.


Sorry but we don't need any SUV's to get by here on the roads during the winter, any car will do fine as long as you have some good winter tires on it and know how to handle it. Heck a lot of the people that live furhter north still drive around in their Volvo 240:s and they get by just fine.
On the other hand I do agree with you that a front wheel drive or 4 wheel drive is the better option for a safer ride, but then again it's much more fun to drive with RWD when it's slippery (which I do at the moment). 

And Chevy Tahoes, just no. There are only a "handful" of those here in Sweden, usually imported by those that (for some reason) likes American cars... 
Most SUV's that are sold here in Sweden are from Europe/Asia. I guess that the main reason why there are so many new SUV's sold here is that a lot of people have accepted the American mantra that Bigger = Better, which isn't always the case.

Also another thing I would like to point out about this thread, people seems to have a problem to see the difference between a SUV and a 4x4...


----------



## nerdly_dood

loefet said:


> Also another thing I would like to point out about this thread, people seems to have a problem to see the difference between a SUV and a 4x4...


Because no SUV is worth having unless it's got 4 wheel drive.


----------



## Magnus Brage

loefet said:


> And Chevy Tahoes, just no. There are only a "handful" of those here in Sweden, usually imported by those that (for some reason) likes American cars...
> Most SUV's that are sold here in Sweden are from Europe/Asia. I guess that the main reason why there are so many new SUV's sold here is that a lot of people have accepted the American mantra that Bigger = Better, which isn't always the case.


Sweden has a large number of GM cars compared to other non-north/southamerican countries. In the 1940ies to the late 60ies GM cars made up a major part of the total number of vehicles. Police cars , ambulance and taxis were Chevrolet, Plymouth brands.

In the early 70ies due to the energy crisis GM sales dropped.

Nowadays the SUVs and pickups of GM can be seen both on rural roads and on city streets. I see a couple of them each time I go to town. 

Other brands like KIA, Toyota, Nissan, Landrover and Volvo also compete about the SUV customers. But so they do also in North America. What about the SUV market in North America how many of the customers buy GM SUV's compared to other the brands ? 









DODGE NITRO at the parking-house^^









PT Crusier ^^, not a SUV but a popular GM car, it's a little bit old fashioned but it has a nice retro design. Service costs are high, parts are expensive and hard to come by.


----------



## 1000city

PT is not a GM-car, it's Chrysler  My friend drives it as a taxi, quite unusual. Good looking car, but the quality is, hmm... not impressive


----------



## Magnus Brage

1000city said:


> PT is not a GM-car, it's Chrysler  My friend drives it as a taxi, quite unusual. Good looking car, but the quality is, hmm... not impressive


Yes, The PT Cruiser is an old construction with some quality issues. But a -00 model for 2500€ (checked out the online-ads) you get an unusual car with retro-feeling. Ordinary people consider this an odd car, so you can really make a good deal if you want one, because demand is poor.

The only problem is shortage of used autoparts for this vehicle.


----------



## tvdxer

1000city said:


> Those difeerences between US, Europe and Japan can be funny sometimes. For You up there 5-meters 3,5 V6 car is a family car, an ordinary commuter. Why I made that 5-meters-assumption is that very few euro cars exceed this limit. Forementioned Q7 and GL-class, luxury saloons and coupes (MB S and CL, BMW 7, Audi A8, Jag XJ, VW Phaeton) and high-end exotics (RRs, Bentleys, Maybachs, Bristols etc.). I drive 5,5m/217in. long Renault Master panel van sometimes and find it hard to park and maneuver in city enviroment. I like american cars and SUVs with those massive bodies and engines, but they just don't fit here  Fuel is just one of the issues, can be bypassed by LPG conversion in many countries.


That's an interesting observation. 

My car is a 5.25m, V6, 3.8L 2001 Buick Park Avenue, which I bought with about 190,000 kms for $4,650:










And yes, it's a large vehicle by even local standards. Gets decent gas mileage, though...about 19 mpg (12 l / 100 km) in the city and as much as 30-35 mpg (about 7 l / 100 km) on the highway, better than a LOT of much smaller cars (especially the highway figure).

I could get a full-size SUV here for about the same price, but didn't, because I don't like the way SUV's drive, and the fact that it would consume about 15-17 mpg (14 - 16 l / 100 km) on the highway and about 12 mpg (20 l / 100 km) in town.


----------



## poshbakerloo

Where I live (Cheshire, ENG)
I see quite a lot of big cars, but not many very big ones like in the US...

I tend to see these quite a bit...

BMW X5








Mercedes M Class








Porsche-Cayenne








Range Rover


----------



## Magnus Brage

tvdxer said:


> That's an interesting observation.
> 
> My car is a 5.25m, V6, 3.8L 2001 Buick Park Avenue, which I bought with about 190,000 kms for $4,650:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yes, it's a large vehicle by even local standards. Gets decent gas mileage, though...about 19 mpg (12 l / 100 km) in the city and as much as 30-35 mpg (about 7 l / 100 km) on the highway, better than a LOT of much smaller cars (especially the highway figure).
> 
> I could get a full-size SUV here for about the same price, but didn't, because I don't like the way SUV's drive, and the fact that it would consume about 15-17 mpg (14 - 16 l / 100 km) on the highway and about 12 mpg (20 l / 100 km) in town.


That is so friggin annoying, this particular 2001 car you bought for $4,650:-

In Sweden this car would cost at least 10.000$ or even more, add to that x1,5 in fuel costs and additional x1,5 vehicle tax. This car is considered to be desirable wealthy man's car in my parts of the world.


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## I-275westcoastfl

It's funny because here small cars are more expensive and large cars are cheap.



nerdly_dood said:


> You can. Ford Contour (shockingly mundane car of the 90s) was nearly identical, and more lately, the Ford Fusion is similar.


I meant this one.


----------



## Magnus Brage

I-275westcoastfl said:


> It's funny because here small cars are more expensive and large cars are cheap.
> 
> 
> I meant this one.


In the 90ies the design of the Contour and the Mystique markedly differed from the Mondeo, allthough it was the same badge-engineered car.

The same thing goes for the Ford Tempo/Sierra

What is it like today, are the differences less between those models now?

Was the Ford Tempo a major popular model or was it a less known model ?

In Sweden the Ford Sierra was quite popular model, but it quickly lost value as a used car. Already in the year 2000 you could buy a funcioning one for less than 800$. So it became a mangy car for people with the low income.


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## 1000city

Magnus Brage said:


> In the 90ies the design of the Contour and the Mystique markedly differed from the Mondeo, allthough it was the same badge-engineered car.
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> It doesn't actually  Sierra and Tempo were completely different, the first was RWD, the latter FWD (both with AWD available). Based on CE14 platform Tempo was far relative of contemporary european Escort. They had our Sierras and Scorpios in USA known as Merkur XR4 and Mekrur Scorpio.
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> That's typical for Ford, at least for older models (since they introduced Focus and MkIII Mondeo their reputation and quality increased). The same is now with Escorts, old Mondeos etc. I just saw '94 Mondeo estate for sale parked by local store. Looks good, no rust (plague of those), loaded with safety and power features, aircon, LPG conversion for lower fuel bills. 750EUR/1000USD negotiable. VW Passat of the same age and spec would cost twice that much. But it would also have much more life left in it.
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## Magnus Brage

1000city said:


> Rear end differed mote, but still they looked very simillar. The major difference was, that Contours/Mystiques were made in USA/MEX, and they had worse quality than euro-built ones. At least that's the conclusion in Poland, where we had some grey import Contours.



Really could quality be even worse ? I know that common failures were leaking tank, worn out suspension, rust etc. 



1000city said:


> 1000city said:
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> I just saw '94 Mondeo estate for sale parked by local store. Looks good, no rust (plague of those), loaded with safety and power features, aircon, LPG conversion for lower fuel bills. 750EUR/1000USD negotiable. VW Passat of the same age and spec would cost twice that much. But it would also have much more life left in it.
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> 750€ for a 1994 Mondeo is way to much, noone would buy that car in Sweden even if in mint condition with air cond. It's an icecold model.
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Click to expand...


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## nerdly_dood

Magnus Brage said:


> I had a 1994 Mondeo Estate which I sold in 2006 for 1200€, Now I checked the auto register and it ended up at the scrapyard already in 2008.
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> So in Sweden 1994 Mondeos are not sold at any autodealer, you hardly see any 1994 Mondeos on the streets anymore. Mondeo II with the facelifted front newer than 1997 could be seen though.
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> 750€ for a 1994 Mondeo is way to much, noone would buy that car in Sweden even if in mint condition with air cond. It's an icecold model.
> 500€ is a more suitable price. That also goes for the 90ies Scorpios.
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> You have to wait another 15 years so it becomes a vintage classic, then the demand will increase.


Older cars seem to be more common in the States (except in big cities and their suburbs). It's not uncommon to see a late-90s Ford Contour. Still, they have absolutely no personality and are shockingly mundane.


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## Svartmetall

^^ Don't worry, it's quite common to see cars from the 1980's here! :lol:


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## Guaporense

SUVs are way strange things. People having trucks to drive around? It is not rational, if you know what I mean.


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## Guaporense

Now, that's a smart car to have:


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## Magnus Brage

nerdly_dood said:


> Older cars seem to be more common in the States (except in big cities and their suburbs). It's not uncommon to see a late-90s Ford Contour. Still, they have absolutely no personality and are shockingly mundane.


Japan is probably the country where you see most newest cars. In Japan a 5 year old car is considered to be retired for the roads already.

In Sweden the medium life span of a car is about 14-15 years, but it varies depending on car brand and location. North Sweden with high unemployment rate have lots of old vehicles. South has lower numbers of old cars. 

For MB' s, medium years of use is probably up to 20 years. Ford Mondeo, Scorpio, KA has a lower medium lifespan closer to 10 years. So 1994 Ford Mondeo's are less seen on the roads. Actually I saw a pre 1997 Mondeo yesterday, but nowadays that's close to a sensation, at least where I live. 

The average lifspan of a Rolls Royce is unlimited, the few vehicles at the scrapyard are wrecks because of severe traffic incident.


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## Luli Pop

Korea is the country with the youngest car stock in the world since the early 90s, second Japan.


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## nagara373

Cars in UK are smaller than in the rest because UK has higher fuel price than the rest and roads in UK have tighter curves than in the rest.


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## tone_c

Satyricon84 said:


> This video shows the difference from a properly SUV (BMW X6) and the Range Rover (SUV with offroad characteristics - last series. Previous series were very properly offroads). That's why I say you can't compare a Defender to a Suburban, they are two different categories


That video is full of half truths, Range Rover's are delivered on tyres with a decent enough tread for mild offroading, the X6 is delivered with performance road tyres, put the X6 on similar rubber and it would have climbed the hill. Ditto for the ice covered alpine road, any local owning an X6 in that area would have winter tyres and could have easily driven in those conditions. 

You can't compare a Defender to a Surburban but you can compare the Surburban to a Discovery, the Discovery is a better drive on road, offroad there is no comparison.

Just for your information the L322 model Range Rover is the most competent offroader Range Rover have ever produced, it's better off road than the P38A model, the terrain response system is frankly amazing.


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## tone_c

Galro said:


> It may not have been a suv when it debuted in the '30s, but by the early '60s then it evolved into what I would call a SUV. Of course it was still a very crude construction but so were early Range Rovers and other early SUV-like vehicles.
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> I can't say I agree that the Cherokee were any more SUV than the earlier Wagoneer either.


What Robert Casey is saying and I agree with him is that the Cherokee was the first SUV with mass appeal, the vehicle which the average American family could use as a replacement for their family station wagon, it was comfortable, with a car like ride, rather than the crude light truck based vehicles before it, with car like interior comforts, easy to drive, all at a price point that was affordable.


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## Satyricon84

tone_c said:


> That video is full of half truths, Range Rover's are delivered on tyres with a decent enough tread for mild offroading, the X6 is delivered with performance road tyres, put the X6 on similar rubber and it would have climbed the hill. Ditto for the ice covered alpine road, any local owning an X6 in that area would have winter tyres and could have easily driven in those conditions.
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> You can't compare a Defender to a Surburban but you can compare the Surburban to a Discovery, the Discovery is a better drive on road, offroad there is no comparison.
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> Just for your information the L322 model Range Rover is the most competent offroader Range Rover have ever produced, it's better off road than the P38A model, the terrain response system is frankly amazing.


Of course, cause Range Rover has characteristics of both, Suv and off-road vehicle, and can be used well either on paved roads or off-road. X6 is just a Suv with all characteristic of a normal car, just higher. Nobody forbid you to use a station wagon on off-road track, just is not made for it. So the BMW X6. Discovery was an off-road till the Discovery 3 (in past was one of the best off-road, used in extreme hard conditions like the Camel Trophy), now turned into a SUV but kept some off-road characteristic (like the Terrain Response System) that Suburban doesn't have cause it's a SUV only. Comparating Discovery to a Suburban in base of only paved road characteristic. in base of what you say it's better?
Land Rovers are, in my opinion, the best off-road vehicles. The Defender is strong as a rock, Discovery II was strong and egant too...


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## RobbieRotten

Satyricon84 said:


> Can't I have an opinion different of yours??? I have to like by force european SUVs?????


Yes you do, they are better, nuff said 



Galro said:


> Chevrolet started producing the Suburban in 1933 and Jeep started the production of the Wagoneer in 1963.


The 1970 Range Rover was designed specifically as an onroad/offroad raised stationwagon, the Surburban and the Wagoneer were adaptions of commercial vehicles.


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## ZevenZonden

RobbieRotten said:


> Yes you do, they are better, nuff said


Better, but also more expensive.


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## strandeed

Satyricon84 said:


> Land Rovers are, in my opinion, the best off-road vehicles. The Defender is strong as a rock.


As the owner of a 1985 ex military land rover defender 110 I would have to agree with you 

Big mechano set... even a numpty like me can fix it when it goes wrong.

Here's mine getting a new engine and galvanised bulkhead fitted on the drive. The Defender 90 with the yellow cab is my sisters car.


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## Wild54Pe




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## Jen5JamQ

SUV on diesel yet here in Europe.


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## NordikNerd

Full size pickup truck, parkingspots at some places are not big enough for these type of vehicles.


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