# Urban diversity in the Paris suburbs



## brisavoine

For those who liked the Unusual views of Paris and the Paris : 11 million inhabitants - Giant satellite view threads, I'm creating this new thread showing the urban diversity in the Paris suburbs. There are more than commie blocks in the Paris suburbs as you'll see.

IMPORTANT NOTE: if you want to add pictures to this thread:
- no more than 10-12 pics per message please
- this thread is about diversity, so don't show repetitive pics of the same urban landscape. One or two well chosen pics are better than 10 pics of the same thing.

1. Typical diversity in a Paris suburb (Chatou in the western suburbs): detached houses next to small condominium buildings. The skyscraper of La Défense and the Eiffel Tower in the distance.









2. The Salvador Allende social estate in the Communist suburb of Saint-Denis. Urban poverty and segregation under the flight paths of Paris-CDG airport.









3. In the western suburbs the white collars live in detached houses amidst leafy neighborhoods. Here the top-notch and very wealthy suburb of Noisy-le-Roi.









4. Ethnic landscape in the inner suburbs. This suburbs is home to an Armenian and South-East Asian community.









5. Thanks to 10 centuries of close proximity to the French kings and the French State, the suburbs of Paris are home to the largest concentration of mansions and châteaux in Europe, the like of which is found only around London. A private mansion in the southern suburb of Palaiseau. There are hundreds of mansions like this one throughout the suburbs.









6. The innermost suburbs (here Saint-Mandé) look like the City of Paris proper, and the only reason why they are called "suburb" is because the limits of the City of Paris proper have been artificially frozen since 1860.









7. Suburban train stations are part of daily life for millions of Parisians. Here Houilles station in the northwestern suburbs.









8. In the outer suburbs the urban area of Paris expands year after year ever outwards. About 5 million Parisians live in such sprawling outer suburbs where there are few commie blocks and residential developments are mixed with forests, freeways, drive-in shopping malls, and farming fields. Here Savigny-le-Temple in the southeastern suburbs, 35 km (22 miles) from Notre Dame cathedral as the crow flies.









9. The suburbs also contain beautiful historical districts, such as the town center of Versailles in this picture. That's not how foreigners imagine the suburbs I suppose (especially if they watch Paris Riots on Fox News).









10. The poetically named Les Bosquets ("The Groves") social estate in Montfermeil (eastern suburbs) is another of the social ghettos dotting the Paris suburbs.









11. Meanwhile, people in the northwestern suburbs enjoy the sweet life. Here the über-classy lake of Enghien surrounded by villas, rolling hills with fantastic views of Paris, and well-to-do people.









12. In the eastern suburb of Noisy-le-Grand they try to learn the errors of the ugly social estates built in the 1960s-1970s. New condominium buildings are moderately sized, a bit more stylish (neo-haussmannian style), and private property is clearly marked with fences.


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## eklips

Thanks for the effort brisavoine

Another kind of landscape you encounter a lot in the suburbs is this one (these photos of mine are old and are not the best though, but they're the only thing I have):

It's neither full of tower blocks kind of buildings, neither is it as dense as Paris, but it's not urban sprawl neither, it's generally a mix of low rise buildings, commieblocks, 60 years old detached houses and a few modern constructions:










This is what you encounter the most once you are out of the inner suburbs.

edit: I just changed and put a slightly different photo, this is the city center of the suburb called Antony.


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## brisavoine

eklips said:


> edit: I just changed and put a slightly different photo, this is the city center of the suburb called Antony.


The other one was good too. You should show different examples.


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## Minato ku

Saint Denis is really a weird place, it is very diverse it has modern office building, old district, historical monument, vibrant commercial district, residencial post haussmannian buildings, little urban houses, industrial wastle land and commies blocks.
This place represent well the diversity of Paris inner suburbs

Commercial street in Saint Denis








Picture by Stormwatch153


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## brisavoine

What fascinates me in particular is the sprawl in the outer suburbs. The urban landscape is very different from central Paris, it looks very American to me, but tourists never know about these outer suburbs because it would take long commutes for them to explore them. Even when you take the RER subway from Paris-CDG airport to central Paris you don't cross these outer suburbs (Paris-CDG is too close from central Paris).

Contrary to central Paris, in the outer suburbs the typical dwellings are single houses, often detached, and they have a typical style trying to copy the old style of the Île-de-France province. Houses in picture #8 (Savigny-le-Temple) are typical of this style. People living there are white collars who make long commutes. The daily life in these outer suburbs is completely different from the daily life in central Paris: it's all about cars, shopping malls, raising kids, socializing with other white collars, week-ends in the beautiful rural areas surrounding Greater Paris.

Here are some more pics of the outer suburbs.

13. Cormeilles-en-Parisis in the northwestern suburbs









14. American suburbia in the distant eastern suburbs of Paris.









15. Cormeilles-en-Parisis again









16. Outer suburbs lifestyle. In the northern suburbs.









17. Maule, a very distant western suburb.









18. A neo-haussmannian shopping mall in the distant eastern suburbs.









19. An entire neo-haussmannian district is being built in this distant eastern suburb.









20. The same area. It's about 30 km (18 miles) from Notre Dame cathedral as the crow flies.









21. The same area again. It reminds me of this copy of Paris that the Chinese are building near Shanghai. Parisians making a Chinese-style copy of Paris in the suburbs of Paris, now that is globalization! :lol:









22. Many Parisians aspire to that kind of dream life: detached houses with gardens next to green space and rural setting in the easternmost suburbs of Paris. These kind of developments are now frowned upon by the environmentally-conscious Greater Paris region, but it's hard to force people to live in small apartments in crowded neighborhoods.


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## brisavoine

Another thing I like about the suburbs is the many royal parks and royal forests dating from the time of the monarchy. Central Paris has little green space, but the suburbs have as much green space as cities like Berlin.

23. Louis XIV's royal park in Sceaux, an upper-class southern suburb. The residential areas around this park are very very nice (but very very expensive too). The hill you see on the pic is not a forest but an entire residential area whose trees hide the houses.









24. The royal estate of Marly in the western suburbs was the favorite home of Louis XIV. The chateau was unfortunately destroyed during the French Revolution, but the park and its canals remain. In the summer when the leaves are back it's an amazing place.









25. A beautiful royal forest somewhere in the suburbs (entirely surrounded by urbanization). Royal forests have large avenues because they were used for royal hunting with horses. Personally, if I had to give a reason why Paris is unique, it would be because of its forests, but few tourists are aware of it (which is not a bad thing).









26. When you explore the suburbs you can discover pure jewels like this Mediterranean looking suburb on a hill overlooking the Seine, somewhere in the preppy western suburbs, which I discovered a few years ago and which I adore. Lots of antiques shops and tea houses. :cheers:


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## eklips

brisavoine said:


> Contrary to central Paris, in the outer suburbs the typical dwellings are single houses, often detached, and they have a typical style trying to copy the old style of the Île-de-France province. Houses in picture #8 (Savigny-le-Temple) are typical of this style. People living there are white collars who make long commutes. The daily life in these outer suburbs is completely different from the daily life in central Paris: it's all about cars, shopping malls, raising kids, socializing with other white collars, week-ends in the beautiful rural areas surrounding Greater Paris.


Well, the outer suburbs are also very heterogenous and are not made uniquely of the kind of areas you describe.

For example, in theouter suburbs around 25km south-west of Paris you have pseudo-preserved white collar old city centres, recent detached-home sprawl (similar to what you described), a soulless dense and working class suburb, completly artifically built in the 70's. Older suburbs with a mix of 50's appartments and small detached houses and so on.


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## brisavoine

^^Why don't you show pictures? I'm talking about what I know. The suburbs of Paris are so large, no one knows all of them.


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## eklips

Ok, but it's hard to find photos, I couldn't find any photo of the leafy relativelly recent area I was talking about, but nonetheless:

Here's the kind of stuff you'll find where I live in a relativelly small area


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## brisavoine

Yes, I know those, but you have to admit there are much less tower blocks in the outer suburbs than in the inner suburbs, and the older town centers like in your 4th pic are just a small part of the urban landscape in the outer suburbs, being a reflection of the extent of urbanization before WW2.


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## eklips

Yes you are not wrong for the tower blocks thing, however they are still common (it really depends on the area in my opinion, some will be full of them with very imposing "grands ensembles" next to countryside, and others will have almost none). As for the "old" towns, in the Vallée de Chevreuse and near the Orsay area, you find them everywhere


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## Clay_Rock

Fascinating.


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## Minato ku

Urban dense and diverse inner suburbs : La Garenne-Colombes with a view of La Defense









Industrial food wholesale : Rungis.


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## eklips

^^ biggest market in Europe.

Sprawl










edit: lol, it seems that only us, parisian forumers, are obsessed by our own city's suburbs.


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## Minato ku

^^ Maybe. 

Very dense inner suburbs next to Central Paris : Boulogne Billancourt. 









Single-family homes suburbs with some condominium blocks with a beautiful view of the Eiffel Tower, the Montparnasse tower and la Defense in the distance









I don't know where it is exactly, but I know that it is in the Val de Marne departement in the Boissy branch of the RER A, so it is maybe Boissy.


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## snot

eklips said:


> edit: lol, it seems that only us, parisian forumers, are obsessed by our own city's suburbs.


nope, i also love to see those pictures!

I can imagine that Parisians only know a small part of this vast urban area.


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## Minato ku

Yes, of course.


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## thryve

I'm disappointed to see some of the really North American suburbs but they are sooo far out from the city itself. When I was there I only saw beautiful beautiful suburbs.

Great city! Very cute suburbs! (and of course some depressing ones too)


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## brisavoine

eklips said:


> edit: lol, it seems that only us, parisian forumers, are obsessed by our own city's suburbs.


Don't worry, sometimes I receive messages from people thanking me for all the hard work, people from places as far away as India who never post messages in the Paris threads but who nonetheless read us. So the people you see posting here are just the tip of the iceberg.


snot said:


> I can imagine that Parisians only know a small part of this vast urban area.


Yeah, the built-up areas extend over almost 3,000 km² (1,000 sq miles), so it's impossible to know it all. When I was a student I used to go on urban trecks all by myself on Sundays and during holidays, but despite that I only know a small part of the suburbs.

Another amazing thing to do is to go on urban bike expeditions: you start with your bike from the center of Paris, you choose any direction (east, west, north, south) and you ride your bike outwards. You ride, and ride, and ride, and soon you're 5 km from the center, 10 km from the center, 20 km from the center, and it's still urban with no countryside in sight ! That's when you realize how truly enormous this city is. This feeling of going through 20 km or urbanization, there's nothing like it. When you reach places far-away from the district where you live, it feels like a completely different city, I love it. I always carry a detailed IGN ordnance map so as not to get lost during those bike tours.


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## eklips

bicycle or motorbike?


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## Good

Some pictures I took in the inner suburbs south-west of Paris. 
Meudon, an upper class suburb on the hills overlooking the Seine. Rabelais and Rodin lived there, along with 20th century artists such as Arp and Doegsburg. Vanessa Paradis and Johnny Dep have a house there as well!










On the the two following photos you can see a large slice of the Hauts-de-Seine departement, a rich area in the western suburbs. La Défense of course, but also Boulogne-Billancourt (famous for having seen the development of French cinema and cars manufacturing industry), the Mont Valérien (highest point in Paris region), Sèvres (famous for porcelaine manufacturing), Saint-Cloud, etc.



















An example of the typical housing stock in these suburbs: a mix of detached houses and appartments buildings, a lot of them dating from late 19th and early 20th. You can obviously find more opulent mansions and more modest collective buildings as well, and even commieblocks.


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## brisavoine

eklips said:


> bicycle or motorbike?


Bicycle of course (VTC precisely, i.e. hybrid bike in English). One of my favorite itineraries is towards Ville-d'Avray, Forêt de Fausses Reposes, Bois de Meudon, but you'll need very good legs due to the steep climbs.


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## eklips

Well, I have hapenned to make urban trips as well on my scooter a while back, the problem when you do not live in the center of the agglo is that you don't have as much choice of where to go.



I haven't found any decent pics of them to post on here, but if anyone has pics of the Croix Blanche towers in Vigneux Sur Seine, he could post them, they are very peculiar when you see them for real.

Here's a (very bad and old) pic:


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## brisavoine

Good, you should resize your pics. Go to image shack and ask them to resize your pics to 15 or 17 inches.


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## Minato ku

thryve said:


> I'm disappointed to see some of the really North American suburbs but they are sooo far out from the city itself. When I was there I only saw beautiful beautiful suburbs.
> 
> Great city! Very cute suburbs! (and of course some depressing ones too)


I guess that you took the RER C to go in Versailles.

I remember of tourists from Quebec, who tell me how the suburbs between Paris and Versailles were beautiful and a way too dense and urban for be real suburbs.


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## Minato ku

An interesting landscape of Paris outer inner suburbs : Creteil

Middle income residencial high-rises next to Creteil lake.









Mainly Low income high-rises.









A general view of Creteil residencial high-rises and the A86 motorway (Paris second beltway)


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## Jhun

is london bigger or paris? and does English work in Paris?


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## Minato ku

What's your point ? According data, Paris has a bigger urban area than London but London has a bigger Metropolitan area. (But it is about the same)
Of course there is a lot of english who work in Paris.


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## ablarc

brisavoine said:


>


What more can you tell about this place? ^

Location?


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## Good

Yes, where is it exactly Brisavoine? Saint-Germain-en-Laye or Pontoise maybe?


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## edubejar

^ Is that pic just above really in Greater Paris? It looks more like something somewhere more south, like around Lyon or more like Provence or even Southwestern France, but not Ile-de-France. Both the colors and style looks so un-northern.


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## sky-eye

Thanks for the pictures. When i visited Parijs 10 years ago our hotel was nearby a social estate in Bobigny, very ugly. Here i see also beautiful sururbs of Paris.


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## GM

Well, the roofs look like more northen than southern. And even if the colored walls can recall the south of France, we actually find them a bit everywhere in France (and since some years, it's more and more common to paint the walls in colors).


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## JP

ablarc said:


> What more can you tell about this place? ^
> 
> Location?


Marly-le-Roi


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## eklips

GM said:


> Well, the roofs look like more northen than southern. And even if the colored walls can recall the south of France, we actually find them a bit everywhere in France (and since some years, it's more and more common to paint the walls in colors).


Yeah that's exactly what came to my mind as well, I think Massy's city center is also a bit like that.


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## Minato ku

The modern residencials building.
Montrouge


















An interresting mix between little houses and housing blocks.
Bagneux.


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## brisavoine

JP said:


> Marly-le-Roi


Bravo! It was indeed Marly-le-Roi, 18 km. (11 miles) west of Notre Dame and not in southern France. Marly was the prefered home of the Sun King Louis XIV. Versailles was used for official pageantry and the court, whereas Marly was a private retreat where only the closest friends of the king were invited to join him. Versailles was very formal, whereas Marly was relaxed and informal (it was allowed to be sitted in the presence of the king for example and to address him casually). There are 17,000 people who live in Marly today. Lucky people.

Here are some more pics of Marly for those who enjoyed the pic I posted.

General view over Marly-le-Roi in the western suburbs of Paris, with the beginning of Louis XIV's royal residence in the foreground.


















The rural charms of the old province of Île-de-France are preserved in many of the now completely urbanized suburbs of Paris. This was Marly's public wash house (for washing clothes).









The church of Marly built in the 17th century by the famous architect of the king Jules Hardouin-Mansart.









Another street in Marly. The western suburbs of Paris are ages away from the grim social estates where riots occured in 2005.









The famous horses of Marly which adorned the entrance to Louis XIV's royal residence in Marly are now in Le Louvre Museum. One copy of them is at the beginning of the Champs-Elysees. Another copy was returned to Marly.


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## eklips

brisavoine said:


> Bravo! It was indeed Marly-le-Roi, 18 km. (11 miles) west of Notre Dame and not in southern France. Marly was the prefered home of the Sun King Louis XIV. Versailles was used for official pageantry and the court, whereas Marly was a private retreat where only the closest friends of the king were invited to join him. Versailles was very formal, whereas Marly was relaxed and informal (it was allowed to be sitted in the presence of the king for example and to address him casually). There are 17,000 people who live in Marly today. *Lucky people.*


You live right next to the Champs Elysées! You're lucky enough already


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## brisavoine

^^T1 29 m², hm no. Et j'ai passé l'âge d'être un étudiant. Honestly I'd rather live in a house with garden and a car in Marly.


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## Lee

Thanks, I really liked the photos of the small town-like suburbs. I am sure they used to be small towns in themselves a while ago, and trading posts hundreds of years ago.

I don't really like modernist look at all, especially with those gov't housing projects. Traditional architecture is much more beautiful, and Paris is king in this.


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## Alexriga

wow, really different. from poverty to wealth


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## Audiomuse

SUPERB THREAD!!! Very Very Interesting!


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## hoogbouw010

Good to see some residential areas outside the Paris city centre.


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## felipebarros2003

GREAT THREAD !!!!!


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## Minato ku

Urban mess, in middle class inner suburbs of Malakoff.










Gentilly Southern inner suburbs.


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## Deanb

wow great! it really is diversed! looks like pix of completely different cities in France!


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## fettekatz

wow... interesting


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## Minato ku

A diversity that I quite like...
*Arcueil*





































And the best... 20's industrial look building, sole little house, 50's commies block and an office building u/c.


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## kevinkagy

Very nice pictures, but it's very sad to see France is falling for the enviornmentally-unconscious trend of suburbs. Paris is a beautiful city, but those photos of suburbs are boring, sad, and could be anywhere in the world (very "cookie-cutter" as we say in the United States), at the rate globalization is getting.


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## edubejar

kevinkagy said:


> Very nice pictures, but it's very sad to see France is falling for the enviornmentally-unconscious trend of suburbs. Paris is a beautiful city, but those photos of suburbs are boring, sad, and could be anywhere in the world (very "cookie-cutter" as we say in the United States), at the rate globalization is getting.


Did you mean the pictures of SOME of those suburbs are sad? I thought many of the suburban cities shown here are nice. That is what the main image posters of this thread are trying to show, that not all Paris suburbs are housing projects, immigrant-exclusive, forgotten hell-hole that many, including French people and many Parisians who live in the city-proper, seem to think, and that the media may have portraid when showing the riots that brokout out 2 novembers ago or so.

And maybe I'm not seeing it but how are some of these places environmentally unconscious? I'm sure there is room for improvement but to what are you specifically referring?


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## Zaqattaq

Can some show me some pictures of the banlieues which are considered to be the worst


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## Taller Better

One thing we need everyone who contributes photos here to do, CREDIT WHERE YOU GOT THE PHOTOS FROM. Simple to do. Please and thank you.


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## Minato ku

^^ Every pictures in this page before this post are mine.


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## Minato ku

Every pictures are in the famous Seine Saint Denis also know as 93 or 9-3

Bussiness park of Paris-Nord II near Charles de Gaulle Airport in Roissy-en-France, Tremblay-en-France and Villepinte. At the limite of Seine Saint Denis and Val d'Oise departement








Picture by Clicsouris

Old urban landscape in Noisy le Sec.








Picture by Marianna

T4 light rail line in Pavillon sous bois, look at the fake old mediterranean buildings, very common style in Paris suburbs.








Picture by Peter Ehrlich

Suburban commercial road in Bondy








Picture by Marianna


I don't really know the dangerous banlieue.

Clichy sous Bois were started 2005 riot.








Picture by Marianna









Picture by Clicsouris 

Little houses district in Aulney sous Bois also know for been active in 2005 riot. but even the worst suburbs are not only commies block.








Picture by Hervé SUAUDEAU


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## SYDNEYAHOLIC

One can really begin to grasp the sheer immensity of the Paris Region from these pics. Paris has some truly beautiful suburbs and they are extremely diverse. The new mcmansion estates I don't mind so much because they aren't so pretentious as most of the others I've seen.


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## edubejar

When I go to Paris in March I will visit a few places in the suburbs but I'll focus more on the ones with the bigger houses and mansions of Neuilly-sur-Seine and Boulogne-Billancourt in the wealthy west suburbs and those near the very nice huge Parc de Sceaux (Park) in the south suburbs. I'm sure I'll capture the mixed use development nearby since you are often near multifamily/mixed-use in the near suburbs of Greater Paris, especially the near suburbs.


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## philadweller

I adore Paris and would love to spend a year there. It is so real. In many ways it reminds me of New York City and its suburbs.


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## Minato ku

We continue our "trip" in Seine Saint Denis

Housing block in Bobigny.
Unlike that most people think, towers block does not have a high density.
Scroll >>>








Picture by Clicsouris


Bus station Bobigny Pablo Picasso (terminal station of the subway line 5) 








Picture by Clicsouris


The line 5 overground run along the depot in Bobigny








Picture by Oxam Hartog


An other view of Bobigny








Picture by Clicsouris


Old church in Pantin








Picture by Parisette


A RER E next to the impressive Grand Moulin in Pantin








Picture by Michel Derouault


This picture of Derouault is quite old this is the Moulin, nowadays they build an office building inside.








Picture by takahashi 


A street in Pré Saint-Gervais, one of densest and smallest municpality of France (23,500 inh/km² and only 0.7 km²)








Picture by Zantastik


Mercurial twin towers and Bagnolet city hall








Picture by Grook Da Oger


Housing blocks in Bagnolet








Picture by Grook Da Oger


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## Minato ku

Right side : St Maurice 
Left side : Charenton le Pont








Picture by metropolitan


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## brisavoine

EDIT


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## Minato ku

Where is it in the 94 ? Gentilly, Villejuif... ? 

Light rail line T1 in La Courneuve (93 Northern inner suburbs)


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## brisavoine

A couples more pics of the Paris suburbs from the blog 'Paris est sa banlieue'.


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## [email protected]

^^ I love old suburban houses.

@ Minato ku : good guess, it's Villejuif!


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## christos-greece

brisavoine said:


>


That building is really nice


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## [email protected]

Some of the southern inner suburbs...


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## Martounet

*banlieue vue de la seine*

des photos que j'ai prise de la seine, un moyen intéressant d'observer la banlieue, très dépaysant!




à nanterre


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## Martounet

how can i post pictures normally?


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## Martounet




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## Martounet

neuilly


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## Martounet

désolé j'ai l'impression que je suis pas encore au point question dimension d'images, dommage car j'ai pas mal de photos de banlieues insolites ou tout simplement belles:banana:


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## Minato ku

Normalement avec Imageshacks tu peux redimentionner les images.
Coche "resize image" en utilisant la taille (1024x768).


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## Martounet

ok merci bcp bro! :banana:


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## christos-greece

You can use for hosting program (upload e.t.c.) photobucket.
Photobucket reduce the size of (any) pics...


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## Martounet

thanks a lot


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## christos-greece

Welcome...


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## Martounet

péniches in conflans


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## Martounet

chatou


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## brisavoine

The 18th century château of Châmplatreux, in the northern suburbs of Paris, today the property of the dukes of Noailles, one of the most important aristocratic families in France. This château is located near the suburban municipality of Villiers-le-Bel where violent riots erupted last year. A further proof of the big contrasts in the suburbs of Paris.

(@Martounet: resize your pics in post # 106, 108, and 109)

Main entrance:









Façade overlooking the park:









The park:









Tables set for a big reception:


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## karim aboussir

very nice I know in the media they about how crappy paris subrbs are to me that is not true only some the northeastern suburbs are crappy that is true but paris also have beautiful western suburbs and many middle class suburbs as well as working class suburbs


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## christos-greece

brisavoine said:


> Façade overlooking the park:


Those type of buildings (chateaux) in Paris and all France are very beautiful :yes: kay:


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## cristof

j'ignorais l'existence de ce genre de banlieue américaine à Paris, ça doit être un cas unique en europe ça non?, c'est près de Marne-LA-Vallée, non??


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## brisavoine

cristof said:


> j'ignorais l'existence de ce genre de banlieue américaine à Paris, ça doit être un cas unique en europe ça non?, c'est près de Marne-LA-Vallée, non??


Oui, c'est à 400 km de Londres figure-toi.


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## [email protected]

Even in the densest part of the suburbs (zone 2), there are some detached houses. These ones are in my hometown (southern suburbs) ~1,5 km from the peripherique, streets like these aren't representative of the innermost suburbs of Paris though.























































Plus a view towards chinatown towers in Paris city proper :


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## Taller Better

From what I can tell ( and it is not easy, as crediting has mostly not been done), most photos seem to have been taken by Brisavoine or Minato ku. Thus, I will move this thread to the Urban Showcase section. If that is not the case, please properly edit in credits, then pm me and I will move the thread back to Cityscapes! Thank you!


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## christos-greece

It is very nice to see areas from Paris (with or without snow) :cheers:


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## Minato ku

Taller, Better, Many pics are not from us and are credited.



[email protected] said:


> Even in the densest part of the suburbs (zone 2), there are some detached houses. These ones are in my hometown (southern suburbs) ~1,5 km from the peripherique, streets like these aren't representative of the innermost suburbs of Paris though.


Even in my home, Montrouge, one of densest municipality of France and in Europe with 21,825 inh/km² (About 55,000 inh/sqm). 
We see little houses.
Dense little house districts can provide 5,000 - 10,000 inh/km² density, often higher than commies blocks estates.




























Of course most of Montrouge are 4-7 floors buildings


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## 东方丹东

俺个样接嘎达！因为打来喇叭！！！


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## SV560A

Minato ku said:


> This picture of Derouault is quite old this is the Moulin, nowadays they build an office building inside.


This giant QR Code is disgusting, seriously.

Minato-ku, have you got some pics of the Avenue Marx Dormoy in Montrouge? There are pretty residential buildings and some office blocks, some interesting buildings along the Rue Fénelon also.



KaEL- said:


>


What's that platform?


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## [email protected]

C'est l'axe majeur de Cergy-Pontoise.


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## Martounet

seine à nanterre







conflans




neuilly


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## tmac14wr

Absolutely beautiful. It really says a lot when a city is so gorgeous that even its suburbs are attractive. Many of those suburbs are prettier and more urban than most major American cities.


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## El_Greco

Truly eye-opening thread big thanks for putting it together!


----------



## christos-greece

Minato your town looks really nice


----------



## Martounet

le mesnil-le-roi 




boulogne



la frette-sur-seine



poissy



port-cergy (je suis encore sur le cul d'avoir vu ça en banlieue, tellement inattendu! :lol





rueil



sèvres





bougival (écluse)



cergy



pour le plaisir :banana:


----------



## KaEL-

T'as pris ces photos en bateau?


----------



## Martounet

oui :banana: :naughty: :nocrook:


----------



## LeB.Fr

Elles sont tres belles tes photos Martounet! (au fait, ton pseudonyme est trop mignon!!)


----------



## Martounet

merci  pour une fois que je poste les miennes! :banana: :lol: 

j'en ai d'autres à venir, dans la série "la banlieue by boat"


----------



## UrbanLife

Love to find long established quality threads like this one! Specially thanks to brisavoine and the rest of you posting all this pics. Have to say Paris is more diverse than I thought, especially those "American car suburbs", which is also housing a major part of norwegians living in the cities. Too bad really, making the urban sprawl terrible.


----------



## Minato ku

Martounet said:


> j'en ai d'autres à venir, dans la série "la banlieue by boat"


Ok but don't post too much pictures of the same thing.


----------



## brisavoine

Let's explore the northern suburbs of Paris a bit. The mere mention of the dreadful "northern suburbs" makes the hair of Parisians stand on end, while images of burning cars and "youth" (codeword for "immigrant") gangs run through their heads. That's partly the reality in the northern suburbs, but there is much more to the northern suburbs than what sensationalist media like to report.

Note: I've only selected a few random pictures here (photos from Annick Restle at Panoramio). It's not meant to be a full and authoritative presentation of the northern suburbs in all their aspects.

Detached houses next to the concrete blocks of a cité (social estate) somewhere in the northern suburbs:









An illegally occupied building in St Denis, in the northern suburbs:









A typical white-collar house in a leafy northwestern suburb of Paris. It is made of so-called "meulières" stones. This type of suburban house is dearly sought after by Paris executives:









A crazy social estate somewhere in the northern suburbs, below one of Paris CDG's flight paths, with clothes hanging outside:









Winter in the northeastern suburbs of Paris (in Aulnay-sous-Bois precisely):









Commercial street in the old part of Aubervilliers, in the northeastern suburbs, just beyond the Périphérique beltway:









Santa Claus climbing a building in the new business district under construction in St Denis, near the Stade de France sport arena:









An abandoned building somewhere in the northern suburbs:









Public library in a very wealthy northwestern suburb of Paris:









A private high school in the same very wealthy northwestern suburb:









The Franco-Muslim Avicenne Hospital in the northeastern suburbs:









A convent of nuns somewhere in the northwestern suburbs:









Gypsy camp somewhere in the northeastern suburbs:









A modern building at the Franco-Muslim Avicenne Hospital in the northeastern suburbs:









A very expensive cottage in a wealthy northwestern suburb on the edge of the Montmorency Forest:









A Chaldean Christian church in the northern suburbs (don't let the plants in the foreground fool you, the picture was really taken in the northern suburbs of Paris, in Sarcelles precisely):









Suburban train station turned into a McDonald's, in the northwestern suburbs:









The border between the Val-d'Oise département and Seine-Saint-Denis département in the northern suburbs of Paris:









A little square in a very wealthy community in the northwestern suburbs:









1930s military quarters in the northeastern suburbs, turned into a residential complex:


















A totally unexpected street in the working-class suburb of St Ouen, near St Denis:









The church of Our Lady of the Missions in the northwestern suburbs. Notice the Chinese elements reminding worshipers of the French Catholic missions in southern China and French Indochina:









The house of Amélie Poulain's father in the cult movie 'Amélie'. It is located in the northwestern suburbs of Paris, which is ironic given that this movie presented a clichéesque image of a time-frozen Central Paris totally disconnected from the suburbs:









Halloween at the St Mary Clinic, a private hospital in the northeastern suburbs of Paris, in the area where most cars burnt during the 2005 riots:









The dilapidated Gros Saule ("Big Willow") social estate, in the northeastern suburbs, not far from the St Mary Clinic:









Appalling trash conditions in a social estate. The van to the left is German, but the picture was taken at the Roseraie ("Rose Garden") social estate in Sevran, in the northeastern suburbs. Notice how many of these awful social estates have flower/tree/bucolic names. :lol: 









A social estate being torn down not far from the St Mary Clinic and the Gros Saule social estate. Many ugly social estates in the Paris suburbs are currently listed for destruction, in an attempt to erase the social ghettoes that are thought to be the cause of the 2005 urban riots:









Kids of all races, creeds, and religions playing with the fountain in front of the Drancy town hall, in the northeastern suburbs:









A canal in the northeastern suburbs, near all the social estates just shown:









A beautiful park in the northeastern suburbs, also near the ugly social estates previously shown:









A new neighborhood under construction in one of the poorest areas of the northeastern suburbs. The local mayor is a member of the French Communist Party, but he is apparently tired of the Stalinist social estates:


















Paris Air and Space Museum at Le Bourget, in the northern suburbs:









Old chimneys somewhere in the northwestern suburbs:









A teachers' training college (école normale) in the northern suburbs:









'Where do you live?' 'Below the road.' This picture was taken in the northwestern suburbs of Paris:









The end of the northern suburbs. The open countryside starts here, on the edge of the megacity, 21 km (13 mi) from Notre Dame Cathedral as the crow flies. In that picture, Central Paris lies beyond the horizon line (i.e. the photographer is looking towards the south):


----------



## Good

WOW! Wonderful and unexpected pictures you're bringing to us Brisavoine. My family comes from the northeastern and northwestern suburbs, I thought I knew this part of Greater Paris quite well, but apparently I have still some areas to explore !


----------



## JP

Cette maison abandonnée n'est pas qu'une simple maison...c'est la toute toute toute première maison en béton (milieu du XIXe)! La maison Coignet est reconnue et même classée...


----------



## Minato ku

This building is classed ? 
It is horrible to see how is now the first house in concrete.


----------



## christos-greece

brisavoine said:


> A very expensive cottage in a wealthy northwestern suburb on the edge of the Montmorency Forest:


This building, house looks really great


----------



## Minato ku

A increadible thing that I find in southeastern suburbs, in the limit between the wealthy Saint Maur and the more working class Joinville Le Pont.


----------



## brisavoine

Greater Paris, viewed from Colombes:


----------



## Minato ku

Wow.
This picture is quite old, no CBX, T1 and Granite tower. It was before 2004.


----------



## Parisian Girl

Great journey through Greater Paris. :cheers1:


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## christos-greece

Brisavoine's pic (old yes) is it awesome


----------



## palermodude

beautiful thread


----------



## brisavoine

Edit.


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## brisavoine

Edit (too many pics).


----------



## brisavoine

Edit (too many pictures).


----------



## brisavoine

Edit (trop de photos).


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## brisavoine

Trop de photos.


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## brisavoine

Too many pics.


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## brisavoine

EDIT


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## brisavoine

EDIT (too many pics).


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## brisavoine

EDIT (trop de photos).


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## brisavoine

A wealthy south-western inner suburb of Paris called Le Plessis-Robinson. Here, the local mayor has been creating an old European city center from scratch since the beginning of the 1990s. It looks like a 19th century French city, but everything on these pics is in fact less than 15 y/o.

That's what Le Plessis-Robinson looked like 20 years ago, a bedroom community with a few bourgeois detached houses (left) and many rundown commie blocks (right) on the edge of Central Paris (note: this is a bit of Le Plessis-Robinson that has not been transformed by the mayor):










This picture shows the nightmarish commie block area of Le Plessis-Robinson that was razed to the ground:


















And THIS is what this nightmarish area was transformed into (everything less than 15 y/o!): :shocked:


----------



## Minato ku

I read an article about Le Plessis-Robinson, the conclusion was "build district like the Le Plessis-Robinson but with modern architecture.
I agree with this, in urbanism the district is quite good (street layout, height color and style diversity), anyway I am not a fan of this type of pastiche architecture.


----------



## mike7743

that's just horrible ( what the old commie place was transformed into)

what's with those narrow streets? do people in France don't have a car or something? how can you rebuild part of a city with that small/narrow of streets. smh @ who ever was responsible for designing it.


----------



## Justme

mike7743 said:


> that's just horrible ( what the old commie place was transformed into)
> 
> what's with those narrow streets? do people in France don't have a car or something? how can you rebuild part of a city with that small/narrow of streets. smh @ who ever was responsible for designing it.


I guess things are really different in your part of the world where cities are made for cars but not people. The idea of the narrow streets is to create cities for people. It works quite well actually and I wouldn't have it any other way.

As for French people not having car's, actually the number of cars per capita in France is almost identical to the US.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/tra_car-transportation-cars


----------



## brisavoine

mike7743 said:


> how can you rebuild part of a city with that small/narrow of streets


When gas costs 10 dollars a gallon, you'll understand why.

It's funny actually because in the picture of the commie blocks, the avenues were very wide. It was a time when France (and most other West European countries) tried to adapt cities to cars, build cities around cars. Now the pendulum has swung back in the other direction and they are destroying the neighborhoods with large avenues (and lots of wind) and replacing them with neighborhoods with smaller streets. Those smaller streets are driveable though, so don't worry.


----------



## edubejar

I LOVE the make-over of Le Plessis-Robinson. Did they really tear down those horrible commie-blocks and build those back-to-European-basics wonder of mixed-use development? I think they did a good job making new buildings have a yesteryear look. Normally I'm not keen of such development but they seem to have done a good job. If I lived in those former depressing concrete housing slaps I think I too would burn cars out of insanity. Luckily, it looks like many have learned from the mistakes of the 50s/60s/70s.

Realistically though, they can't do similar redevelopment to poorer or lower-income places like the northeastern suburbs, can they? Not that nice-looking, can they? What was done in Le Plessis-Robinson was development to make money, not subsidized housing, or?


----------



## aliveinchains

Plesiss Robinson Project is an idea of EcoCompactCity – the urban development which is inspired by old 19th century architecture. It tries to combine dense urbanity with the concept of ‘garden town”. The main motto sounds: “cities need great buildings not skyscrapers”. Instead of building huge tower apartments blocks, or American style housing estates the European cities prefer to build social friendly districts were families do not only come to sleep, but also take advantage of all facilities like shoping, restaurants, pubs, schools without using a car. 
In my opinion the idea, planning is very good and fits to our European tradition, but these columns, towers, “Prussian walls”, looks a little bit kitschy 
If you want to get more information about ecocompactcities in France, Belgium, UK have a look here:
http://www.ecocompactcity.org/


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## tmac14wr

mike7743 said:


> that's just horrible ( what the old commie place was transformed into)
> 
> what's with those narrow streets? do people in France don't have a car or something? how can you rebuild part of a city with that small/narrow of streets. smh @ who ever was responsible for designing it.


You're joking, right? That town should be the model of modern development. It's absolutely perfectly done.

Brisavoine: I hope you don't mind, but I am going to post some of your pictures on a website called archBoston.com (it's about development in Boston) in order to show what new development _should_ look like.


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## mike7743

tmac14wr said:


> You're joking, right? That town should be the model of modern development. It's absolutely perfectly done.
> 
> Brisavoine: I hope you don't mind, but I am going to post some of your pictures on a website called archBoston.com (it's about development in Boston) in order to show what new development _should_ look like.


well, I wasn't but then again you live in Boston (the least American looking city in the country, with it's amazingly ugly buildings and narrow/small streets...) 

Paris is beautiful for the most part, and there are some beautiful parts of the city in this thread but that specific development is horrible. we drive bigger cars and those streets are too small/narrow for it to work here. it's way too crowded and completely unattractive. why would anyone try to make a place look like it's a movie set for a movie based in 1641. I'm glad our people don't see it otherwise.

nuff said.


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## aquablue

You are either clueless or one very old-fashioned dude, my friend. If more of the USA adopted this type of planning, the quality of life would be 10X the current. Cars are divisive, and the sprawling identikit suburban landscapes of our country are a sad legacy that encourages a reduction in human interaction and increases environmental pollution. 

I hope you are kidding about boston -- its one of the best looking cities in the country. Where the hell are you from, LA or Houston or somewhere similar? A place that's so ugly, i couldn't bear to look when I was there -- yuck.

You can keep it, strip mall culture and all.. i'll take the euro model any day. I don't care if it looks like something from the old days -- b/c they actually knew how to create cities back then, in case you had forgotten! You can stick your concrete highways and drive-in culture up where the sun don't shine 

Oh, and perhaps one day you'll realize that your "bigger cars" are actually detrimental ... but I guess you can't see beyond your individualistic libertarian approach to life instead of sacrificing a litle for the planet...please. Wake up, there is life beyond your SUV.


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## edubejar

mike7743 said:


> well, I wasn't but then again you live in Boston (the least American looking city in the country, with it's amazingly ugly buildings and narrow/small streets...)
> 
> Paris is beautiful for the most part, and there are some beautiful parts of the city in this thread but that specific development is horrible. we drive bigger cars and those streets are too small/narrow for it to work here. it's way too crowded and completely unattractive. why would anyone try to make a place look like it's a movie set for a movie based in 1641. I'm glad our people don't see it otherwise.
> 
> nuff said.


In Austin, Texas a similar development is in the works. Phase II is up next. It looks a lot like the development in Le Plessis-Robinson you commented with housing and commercial use mixed. The streets are narrow like in those pics but the kind of people who live there drive mainly small cars and even Smart cars and Vespa. Austin is going through a Euro craze at the moment.

Cars in Europe are rarely large so the problem you mention of big vehicules does not affect Le Plessis-Robinson. Also, that development is not that much different than parts of Paris or Greater Paris where small streets are found everywhere. Cars are not getting bigger in Europe (in fact, they are getting smaller even in the USA where the American car industry is already in big trouble for not adapting and where Japanese and German cars are doing better).

Again, that development is no more crowded than many neighborhoods in Paris or any city-centre of Europe. Also, none of the streets featured are major arterials or even collector streets. You should look it up on Google Maps Street View. And just so you know, those buildings do not look like 17th c. architecture. If anything it would be a movie set for 19th c. neo-classic archicture. 1600s architecture looks very different. You could not make that pass for 1600s anything.


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## Minato ku

Yes this development in Le Plessis-Robinson is not at all crowded, there is far denser place all over the dense core of Paris metropolitan area.

Anyway one of problem of Le Plessis-Robision is that it is not properly deserved by mass transportation system (RER, metro or suburban train), only the buses service it.
There is over 1.5 km between Robinson RER B station (actually located in Sceaux) and the center of Le Plessis-Robinson.


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## groentje

Thanks. Some areas look quite nice to live, although I want the city vibes a bit closer. But as most people prefer a little garden and a house over an appartment, many people prefer living there.


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## brisavoine

edubejar said:


> And just so you know, those buildings do not look like 17th c. architecture. If anything it would be a movie set for 19th c. neo-classic archicture. 1600s architecture looks very different. You could not make that pass for 1600s anything.


That's quite true, but the thing is, and this is not a reproach, most Americans have a hard time distinguishing 19th century buildings from buildings built before the 19th century. For them it's all "old", which is understandable given that the US don't have a lot of ancient buildings surviving. When I have some American friends in Paris I try to show them the difference between 19th century buildings and buildings built in the centuries before. It's actually funny because for most non-Europeans, Paris looks like an old city, but for me who grew up in the south of France where pre-19th century architecture is everywhere, I've always found Paris so sadly new (i.e. 19th century) and lacking a true Medieval center which was destroyed by Haussmann in the 19th century. So the perspective is radically different from that of an American tourist I guess.

For an idea of what I'm talking about, and although this is not in the suburbs, here are some typical 19th century Haussmannian buildings:









And here, in comparison, are some 18th century buildings:









Another 18th century building:









Here some 17th century buildings (that's what Parisian 17th century buildings look like):









(the king of Poland John II Casimir lived at number 11 after he abdicated the Polish throne in 1668):









And some early 17th century buildings (that's what most people associate with Parisian 17th century, although it's early 17th century, and the rest of the 17th century looks quite different as you could see above):


















16th century (i.e. Renaissance; extremely few Renaissance buildings survive in Paris):









(I bet even the Parisian forumers have no idea where this Renaissance building is located)









Medieval buildings (few Medieval buildings still survive in Paris):


----------



## GM

Suburbia :









from : http://www.survoldefrance.fr/

It's Bussy-Saint-Georges, in the eastern suburbs of Paris.


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## brisavoine

Several architectural periods and styles standing side by side in a northwestern suburb of Paris. This middle class suburb is located exactly 15.2 km (9.4 miles) from the center of Paris as the crow flies.


----------



## brisavoine

Tradition and "patriotism" in another suburb of Paris, in the southwestern suburbs, 8.7 km (5.4 miles) from the center of Paris as the crow flies.


----------



## brisavoine

Geometry in a southern suburb located only 4.5 km (2.8 miles) from the center of Paris as the crow flies.


----------



## brisavoine

Interesting house in a southeastern suburb located 10.7 km (6.6 miles) from the center of Paris as the crow flies.


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## brisavoine

Edit


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## Justme

^^ Sounds like what we used to call "Nappyland", i.e. the outer, new middleclass suburbs with larger houses popular with parents and young children.


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## brisavoine

Some more pictures of Bailly-Romainvilliers. Apparently they try to copy the ancient style of the Isle of France (the old province within which Paris is located). Keep in mind that everything in Bailly-Romainvilliers is less than 15 year-old.


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## brisavoine

SCROLL>>>


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## brisavoine

Each of the houses you can see in the panoramic view sells for between 350,000 and 600,000 euros (US$500,000-850,000). And that's 34 km (21 miles) from the center of Paris as the crow flies.


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## groentje

Hmmm, and I don't even like fake. But ok, it's hard to find a balance between respecting the traditional styles, and absolute kitsch.
Thanks for the photos.


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## brisavoine

groentje said:


> Hmmm, and I don't even like fake. But ok, it's hard to find a balance between respecting the traditional styles, and absolute kitsch.


Does it mean you like Bailly-Romainvilliers, or you dislike it ?


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## groentje

Good question. I'm still figuring that one out.


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## South Central

Destroy it with fire !


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## [email protected]

brisavoine said:


> Keep in mind that everything in Bailly-Romainvilliers is less than 15 year-old.


lol this district wasn't even completed when I went there last March.














Minato ku said:


> That's right, it is first and last KFC where I eat, it was also the only time. :lol:


Same here. :lol:


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## xavarreiro

jiji


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## Gag Halfrunt

Bailly-Romainvilliers seems to be a French version of Poundbury in Dorchester, a pet project of Prince Charles where all buildings are supposed to be in traditional English styles.


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## brisavoine

Parking lots in the northeastern suburbs:


----------



## brisavoine

The Air and Space Museum, at Le Bourget Airport, in the northern suburbs:


----------



## brisavoine

Another parking lot, this time in the eastern suburbs:


----------



## brisavoine

One of Greater Paris's seven Ikea stores (this one is in the southern suburbs):


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## brisavoine

The serene world of the exurbs, in the commuter belt surrounding the outer suburbs, where more and more wealthy Parisians and suburbanites buy (or build) houses, unfazed by the long commutes. 1,626,450 people now live in the exurbs of Paris (as of 2006 census):


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## brisavoine

The modern headquarters of the French industrial group Bouygues, in the western suburbs of Paris. It was built by the US architect Kevin Roche in 1985.


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## brisavoine

The magnificent medieval royal castle of Vincennes, in the eastern suburbs of Paris, with its Sainte Chapelle (the second Sainte Chapelle in Paris, but less well-known than the one on the Île de la Cité in the heart of Paris). This royal castle was a favorite residence of the French kings from 1000 to the 18th century. It boasts the tallest medieval dungeon (keep) in Europe, taller than the Tower of London and other similar medieval keeps. Most of the medieval towers that once surrounded the complex were unfortunately destroyed by Napoleon I at the beginning of the 19th century (you can still see the base of the destroyed towers, as well as one surviving tower, and of course the impressive dungeon). In any case, a must see in Paris, and free of the tourist crowds.


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## brisavoine

EDIT (too many pictures).


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## brisavoine

Edit (trop de photos).


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## brisavoine

In the suburbs of Paris there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of châteaux, thanks to more than a millennium of royal and republican central government located in Paris. The elites have always desired to live close to the sovereign. Despite three revolutions and three German invasions, most of these châteaux have survived until today. There is no other area in Europe with such a density of châteaux, except perhaps the counties surrounding London. Tourists know Versailles, Fontainebleau, Chantilly, Vaux-le-Vicomte, but most others châteaux are relatively unknown, yet quite remarkable nonetheless.

A majority of the châteaux are still privately owned, and not open to visitors. A lot of them are located amidst the royal forests surrounding Paris, which have for the most part survived 200 years of urbanization. In the autumn it is still possible to see hunting parties on horses with dogs and scouts sounding the horn. Enduring traditions despite so many revolutions and social upheavals, I've always found that fascinating. Of course if you only stay in Central Paris and never venture into the outer suburbs, you'll never see it.

One of the old royal forests surrounding Paris, with large alleys designed for the hunting parties:









A traditional hunting party (chasse à courre) somewhere in the suburbs of Paris (it's like the English fox hunt, except that what's hunted in Greater Paris is not foxes but deer and above all wild boars which are a nuisance in the outer suburbs):









Here are some of the hundreds of châteaux that dot Greater Paris.

Château of Dampierre:









Château of Rochefort:









Château of Gambais:









Château of Voisins:









Château of Rambouillet:









Château of the Marais









Château of Baville:









Château of Chamarande, with one of these beautiful English parks that dot Greater Paris:









Château of Courances:









Château of Farcheville, a typically privately owned medieval fortress:









Château of Bélesbat:









Château of Breteuil:









Château of Blandy, a preserved medieval castle:


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## brisavoine

A few more châteaux in the metropolitan area of Paris.

Château of Hénonville:









Château of Pierrefonds (a favorite residence of Emperor Napoleon III, nestled in the huge royal forest of Compiègne; that forest was the birthplace of the French monarchy back in the 10th century):


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## brisavoine

The fairytale château of Pierrefonds again:









Château of Pierrefonds in winter:


----------



## brisavoine

The medieval castle of Lattainville, undergoing restoration (most of the French medieval castles were half demolished under the orders of Prime-Minister Richelieu in the 17th century to prevent the aristocrats from using them as fortresses against the king):









Château of Boury-en-Vexin:


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## brisavoine

Château of Ermenonville:









Château of Auvers-sur-Oise (the church of Auvers-sur-Oise was made world famous by Van Gogh, but who knows there's also a beautiful little château over there?):


----------



## brisavoine

Château of Fosseuse:









Château of Bouconvillers:


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## brisavoine

Château of Théméricourt (it was the property of the Haitian dictator Jean-Claude Duvalier until 1995):









Château of Saint-Cyr:


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## brisavoine

Château of Cires-lès-Mello:









Château of Menouville:


----------



## brisavoine

Château of Méry-sur-Oise:









Château of Stors:


----------



## brisavoine

Château of Vallière:









And let's finish (for now), with the wonderful château of Compiègne, of Napoleonic legend:


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## Unconsciousfocus

very beautiful pics!


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## brisavoine

Modern utopia in the outer northwestern suburbs of Paris.


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## PortoNuts

The Chateau de Pierrefonds is my favourite.


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## tmac14wr

Are some of those chateaus really privately owned?! Those are amazing!


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## Justme

Pretty damn impressive. That's all I can say! :cheers:


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## brisavoine

tmac14wr said:


> Are some of those chateaus really privately owned?! Those are amazing!


Yeah, a lot of them (probably a majority of them) are privately owned. It's not unusual that the owners are the descendants of the lords who built the château before the French Revolution. Aristocrats who don't have enough money to look after their castles usually open them to visitors to get some money (something which was unthinkable 40 years ago).


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## brisavoine

If you can read French, here is a fascinating sociological research book about the French aristocracy today, how they live, how they keep tradition, how they see the world, how they behave within themselves, how they keep (or sell) the châteaux of their ancestors. The authors are two sociologists who spent several years interacting with many French aristocrats, visiting them in their châteaux, staying there, attending their parties and hunts, etc. They even made a documentary on French television out of it. The most important concept for all these aristocratic family is "devoir" (duty). Those who do not live up to their "duty" are badly considered in the aristocratic world.

PS: the title and subtitle of the book is a bit stupid and does not reflect the content of the book. The editor chose the flashy title against the wishes of the authors.

http://www.amazon.fr/Ghettos-Gotha-Comment-bourgeoisie-espaces/dp/202088920X


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## brisavoine

Edit: Too many pics on page.


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## brisavoine

Edit: Trop de photos sur la page.


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## brisavoine

Edit: Pics too many on page.


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## brisavoine

Some random pictures in the outer suburbs of Paris. The outer suburbs are usually rarely seen on this forum, and never visited by tourists, yet almost half of the Parisians live there. Living conditions are very different from Central Paris. Houses are larger, usually with gardens, everybody drives a car, people go to malls and multiplex cinemas, work in leafy business parks, ride bikes in the preserved nature areas during the week-end, etc.

All the pics here were taken in the southeastern outer suburbs. They go from immigrant ghettoes with satellite dishes to wealthy communities that are the abodes of Parisian executives.



















Parisian lifestyle as you've never seen it before.


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## brisavoine

In the outermost suburbs, urbanization is intertwined with cultivated land.


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## brisavoine

A bit of the old France meticulously preserved in the outer suburbs:









On the edges of the Paris urban area, 30 to 40 km from the center of Paris, the last houses give way to wheat fields. I particularly like those fringes where the last suburbs give way to the countryside. It's where the quality of life is the highest.


















Thai Buddhist temple somewhere in the outer suburbs:









In the outer suburbs of Paris, forests are everywhere, a legacy of the French monarchy when these forests were royal preserves for the king's hunts.









A rare medieval castle from the 12th century in the outer suburbs that has miraculously survived until today (part of it at least):


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## brisavoine

Yet another golf course:









An ugly high school from the 1970s. In terms of architecture, the 1970s was the worst decade in Greater Paris and in France in general.









The outer suburbs were developed just as haphazardly as the inner suburbs, without any well thought-out grid plan.









A public library:


















Central Paris on the horizon (with a big zoom):


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## edubejar

^^ It's not necessarily that the outer suburbs were developed unplanned or randomly as the inner suburbs. It's that the urban area of Paris grew and its edges either reached or engulfed old villages and towns that were already laid-out in the typical pre-auto way. Also, hilly areas encourage winding roads (in the west). If anything, the outer suburbs are often laid-out on some type of pattern (e.g. grid). You would know this better than others. This is common in the northeast, east and most of the south where the edges consist of communities planned for the automobile. It's mainly in the north and west where you find random road layouts, and that is probably in part due to the hills.


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## brisavoine

This picture was taken somewhere in the suburbs of Paris. Can you guess where exactly?


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## brisavoine

Two pictures taken in the suburbs of Paris. Note that the first picture was not taken in the countryside or in some sparsely populated outer suburbs, but it was taken in the dense part of the suburbs. As for the second picture, it's not a render, it's a real picture.


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## juanico

brisavoine said:


> This picture was taken somewhere in the suburbs of Paris. Can you guess where exactly?


Oui, c'est le Val d'Europe.


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## Justme

^^ no, but I am guessing somewhere quite far out, maybe in a planned town of some sort. Could it be near Disneyland?


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## Chadoh25

Cool!


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## euromerican

brisavoine said:


> In the outermost suburbs, urbanization is intertwined with cultivated land.


In the second picture down (the new house with the palms), what is the roof made out of? I saw houses exactly like this one being built all over Poland when I was there this summer. It looks like a textured metal roof just painted and shaped in a way to look old. Anyone know?


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## juanico

Justme said:


> ^^ no, but I am guessing somewhere quite far out, maybe in a planned town of some sort. Could it be near Disneyland?


The suburb in question is called Val d'Europe. This street is right behind the mall.


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## Gauthier

Incredible fotos!! by far the most interesting thread on this forum...thank you guys! (specially to Brisavoine for the wonderful Chateau pics


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## brisavoine

Train graveyard somewhere in the suburbs of Paris...


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## brisavoine

These two pictures show why it is impossible to lump all the suburbs of Paris into one category, contrary to what many non-locals do.


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## Medaart

Does anyone have any idea about the amount of immigrants in paris(ian suburbs)?
I heard that no records are kept because of the "Egalité" of people of french nationality.
But with the riots (2005), the movies and the many different religious buidlings seen in this topic, it seems like there are a lot of them. Are there any estimated numbers anywhere?

I like this thread very much but I would aprecciate if you give the real names instead of just "somewhere north-east".
I might wanna visit some this summer.


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## brisavoine

Medaart said:


> Does anyone have any idea about the amount of immigrants in paris(ian suburbs)?
> I heard that no records are kept because of the "Egalité" of people of french nationality.


Immigrant records are kept. What's not kept is ethnic records.

An immigrant is any person who was born outside of France, whose citizenship at birth wasn't French, and who now lives in France. The son of French expats born abroad and who returns to France is therefore not an immigrant. An immigrant who acquires French citizenship becomes a French citizen BUT remains an immigrant. If you're an immigrant, you're an immigrant all your life (except if you return to the country where you come from). Last but not least, the children of immigrants born in France are not counted as immigrants, even if they don't have French citizenship (the son of an Albanian immigrant who is born in France is not an immigrant, even he has Albanian citizenship and not French citizenship).

So now that you know the definition of an immigrant under French statistics, I can tell you at the 2006 census there were 1,956,178 immigrants living in the metropolitan area of Paris. On top of these people, there are also approx. 200,000 migrants from Overseas France (French West Indies, Réunion, Mayotte, etc.) living in the Paris metropolitan area, but they are not counted as immigrants, because Overseas France is fully integrated with France (although for international comparisons, you should include them, otherwise that would hide the population diversity of Paris, for example the size of the Caribbean community would be completely underestimated if you didn't include the migrants from the French West Indies).

So in total, if you add up the immigrants (official definition) + the migrants from Overseas France, that's 2,150,000 people in the metropolitan area of Paris. This figure doesn't include the children of the immigrants born in France.

But then it doesn't stop here. On top of the groups of people that I have mentioned, there is another category of people, the French citizens from the former French colonial empire. These people are not counted as immigrants because they were French citizens from birth, but they are not children of French expats either. In that category you have different types of people: you have the Jews of North Africa, who are between 150,000 and 200,000 in the Paris metropolitan area (they left North Africa after the independence of Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria, and a lot of them settled in Paris, while other settled in Israel and elsewhere); you also have all the educated colonial citizens who had been granted French citizenship (for example a lot of Vietnamese, Khmer and Lao refugees from French Indochina belonged to the elites, they possessed French citizenship, and so they are not counted as immigrants). In total, it's hard to know how many of them live in the Paris metropolitan area, but I'd say 200,000 to 250,000 seems like a good estimate (based on figures from the 1999 census).

So the grand total of immigrants, migrants from Overseas France, Jews from North Africa, and colonial citizens with French citizenship is about 2.35 to 2.4 million in the Paris metropolitan area (again without including the children of immigrants born in France). The population of the Paris metropolitan area was 11,769,433 in 2006, so they make up 20% to 20.5% of the total population.


Medaart said:


> I like this thread very much but I would aprecciate if you give the real names instead of just "somewhere north-east".
> I might wanna visit some this summer.


Personally I do it on purpose, because the goal is to have people discover the places without any clear idea of where they are exactly, as if they toured the suburbs in real life and ended up in areas they had no idea about.

If you want to know the precise name where this or that picture were taken, send me a private message (I don't always know where the pictures were taken though).


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## Medaart

Now that's an interesting story!
It really is a big interest of mine, thank you so much for this information.
And keep posting!


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## brisavoine

Welcome to the Kremlin! (I'm not kidding, it's really called the Kremlin)

(photos by Martoc)


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## brisavoine

EDIT


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## brisavoine

The leafy southwestern suburbs of Paris. Upper-middle-class people live here, in particular the families of executives working in the many private companies spread across Greater Paris.




























Central Paris on the horizon. Notre Dame cathedral is located 15.5 km (10 miles) from where this picture was taken (as the crow flies).


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## brisavoine

The dense and partly derelict inner suburbs of Paris. All these pictures were taken in the same area of the inner suburbs, just south of the Périphérique beltway. Some of the suburban municipalities shown here are still ruled by the French Communist Party (i.e. the local councils have a Communist majority).

Photographer: Raphël Ciais, on Flickr.

Old walls, shiny cars. Welcome to the inner suburbs of Paris!


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## brisavoine

Londres-sur-Seine. 









Renting: condo in the inner suburbs with view over La Défense. 30% cheaper than in Central Paris. Car recommended.









This pictures looks like it was taken somewhere in the distant outer suburbs, yet it was taken right in the middle of the dense inner suburbs.


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## brisavoine

The ugly 1900s, ugly 1930s, and ugly 1960s, all in one shot:









The GDP per capita in Greater Paris is higher than any other metropolitan area in Europe except Zurich and Munich. Oui madame !









Some inner suburban municipalities are destroying those old derelict neighborhoods and replacing them with neo-Haussmannian quarters. 









Gendre et successeur.


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## Andre_idol

Great update


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## salvius

How, oh HOW did I miss this thread? Fantastic work!


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## eklips

The set of pics on post 281 were taken around Palaiseau no?


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## desertpunk

^^Great shots Brisavoine!


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## thicken

beautiful


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## GENIUS LOCI

Superbe thread!


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## brisavoine

eklips said:


> The set of pics on post 281 were taken around Palaiseau no?


Yes, in Igny precisely.


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## n00w

Very nice thread. I've been living in Paris and suburbs (inner South) for the past 37 years. 
I'd be very happy to share unusual and relevant pictures showing the great diversity of the French capital's neighborhoods.

Due to 37 photos already been shown on this page, I'll provide no more than 1 max per post before the thread reaches the next page.

Here's the first one, a panoramic view to the East taken from the top of nascent hills at 6-7 km straight south of Paris. 
The spot from where it has been taken is called the Panorama. 
It is located in the small town of Fontenay-aux-Roses at its borders with Chatillon and Clamart. 
This place is, in fact, at the very beginning of the long string of hills that is running to the West.









Credit: picture by Alain Delaneau


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## Justme

^^ Welcome to the forum, and thanks for the photo.


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## n00w

Small commentary of what you can see in this photo:
. It's taken at a wide angle so the actual distances are a bit distorted.
. The large white building to the left is the ONERA. 
It's a publicly funded aerospace R&D centre, where planes such as the Concord have been invented.
. Behind it in the horizon you can see the multiple towers of Chinatown in the 13th district of Paris.
. On the right of this spot, the rather large low-income housing projects belong to the city of Bagneux.
. Near the middle, to the left, is a small church in the middle of trees that marks the center of Fontenay-aux-Roses. 
This town has mixed categories of populations, from very low to very high incomes. 
There are private houses for company CEOs and celebrities that are real gems with large gardens, some even with tennis courts.
. At the very center if you zoom a lot, you'll notice the same large black building that you can see higher on this page.
Its name is Institut Gustave Roussy. 
It's the headquarters of INSERM, another publicly funded R&D centre which focus is on biotechnology and genetics.
. From the center right to the right (southern part), the picture continues with the prestigious city of Sceaux and its large park, then Antony. 
. On the horizon at the far right, you can guess the beginning of the airstrips at Orly airport.


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## n00w

From nearly the same spot where the previous photo has been taken, if you look in the other direction, here's what you will see (from a different angle):








Credit: © CEA - Commissariat à l'Energie Atomique

It's another publicly funded R&D centre historically focused on nuclear research, both for civil and military purposes. Its activity is now slowly moving towards research on green energy and environment technology.

There are a few more facilities that belong to the CEA on the left that you can't see. The whole area is in fact more than the double in size, as there's an even larger R&D centre that belongs to French super-utility company EDF to the left of this one.


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## n00w

Justme said:


> ^^ Welcome to the forum, and thanks for the photo.


Thanks!


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## n00w

2 km to the SW of the same place, there's an unusual and very large housing project with nearly 20,000 inhabitants, called Meudon-la-Foret.

Here's one of many views available on the web:








Credit: picture by Ardenne.
Larger view here: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/4640574

To the contrary of most similarly large projects in Paris suburbs, this one is still inhabited by middle-class workers. 
It has low unemployment and low crime rates. In fact it's a very safe place where you can wander alone at any time without fear. 
High rents are notably justified by the smart layout of the neighborhoods, the local presence of many activities, the proximity of Paris,
but also the quality of construction materials initially chosen by the architect Fernand Pouillon, that are ageing much more slower 
than in most so-called French "cités".

The second particularity of Meudon-la-Forêt is that although it has all necessary equipments, it's administered by the city of Meudon,
from the old center of which it's situated at a distance of at least 2 km. 
An entire forest is separating both parts of the town and the only way to travel from one to the other is either by car or by bus.


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## n00w

Right on the other side of the same forest, in the old town of Meudon, here's another example of the numerous historical monuments you can find in the suburbs:








Credit: Picture by Jean-Christophe Benoist. Larger view available on Wikimedia.

The "Observatory of Paris", as it's called, has been built in 1874 and is situated right in the place of the former castle of Meudon that used to be the residency of many including Louis XIV and the King of Rome, before being destroyed by a fire in 1871.


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## n00w

Continuing with castles and gardens, let's go 2 km straight South of the former spot, where the panoramic picture has been taken:









Credit: picture by "Spirou". Larger view available on Wikimedia.

It's the "Maison de Châteaubriand", the former house (or mansion) that was inhabited by novelist François-René de Châteaubriand, where he wrote the classics "Mémoires d'Outre Tombe".


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## n00w

The house of Châteaubriand is situated around 10 km from Paris, in Châtenay-Malabry.
It's surrounded by a large park called the "Vallée aux Loups" (litterally: the valley of the wolves), that is neither from French classical 
nor from English inspiration, but from the romantic style more typical of the 19th century.









Credit: picture by "Martinon".
Larger view here: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/7244323


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## tikiturf

royal rose1 said:


> No offense to you Parisians out there, but in the 20 or so times that I've gone to Paris with family, I haven't really fallen in love with it. Perhaps it's just not compatible with me, but I do love the pics!


Don't worry, you don't offense , everyone has their opinions/tastes. And that would be good some updates, I'll see if I can post some pictures.


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## Minato ku

Bobigny/Drancy (northeastern inner suburbs)


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## Minato ku

Torcy/Lognes (eastern outer suburbs)


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## Northridge

Love the pics! 

Is it possible to ask for some pics of the north "ghetto" suburbs?


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## voss1912

checked the whole thread, delighted with the scale and diversity of Parisian suburbs, now all i can say is:

London learn! 


i mean, as long as the central London can contend with Parisian downtown i suppose, the suburbs with its abominable "shedchitecture" can only be put to shame.


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## Minato ku

Noisy-le-Sec (northeastern inner suburb).


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## Minato ku

Puteaux (western inner suburb)


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## Minato ku

Saint Mandé (eastern inner suburb)


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## Minato ku

View from the RER A Nanterre/Rueil-Malmaison (western inner suburbs)


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## Clery

[email protected] said:


> And this is from a neighboring street:


This reminds me "Inception" movie !


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## Minato ku

I don't have many of pictures of the outer suburbs (especially low density residential area), I think that I will do a big trip when the weather will become better.
All the "xxx sur Orges" behind Orly airport.

Two pictures I took from the bus. Issy-les-Moulineaux and Vanves (southwestern inner suburbs)


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## christos-greece

Those recent photos from Paris suburbs, are very nice and thanks


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## chibetogdl

damn!!! lot of time with out seen this thread, i dont even remember how awesome it was

dont let him die again :cheers:

my post 700 :banana:xd


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## flangad

Wow!!! i love this topic!
Thx for all those photos... i live in the suburbs of Paris, and it's a pleasure to see that the architectural diversity (with good and bad) of our living place interest people all over the world 

Anyway, did you notice how urban environment look generaly much much better when the weather is sunny. Sadly, in Paris (and subburbs), we have much more cloudy days than sunny... and clouds generaly make every peace or architecture or urbanism darker, sad and ugly...

let me buy a new camera and i'll try to make some great photos and share them with you


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## brisavoine

Extra points to those who can guess in which suburbs these two pictures were taken. 

Note that these two "suburbs" I'm posting here are more dense than Central London, Central Moscow, and any German city center. :nuts:


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## desi1

Damn! I live in the city and i can't find where this is! :wallbash:
Montrouge maybe for the first?
Bois Colombes for the second? I'm sure about this one. But this housing scheme is unusual in BC, for sure.


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## flangad

Bois colombes for the second 100% sure!


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## flangad

1st one is Puteaux, but i cheated!


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## eduardo.rosales

Ciudad mágica


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