# All-Purpose Downtowns



## gonzo (Jul 30, 2006)

*What are some cities with a single district that serves as THE focal area for both business and leisure activities (shopping/restaurants/nightlife...)?

So basically CBDs where 1st floors (and rooftops?) are almost exclusively restaurants, stores, clubs, etc.*
*
Most cities I'm familiar with have a separate 'focal area' for leisure activities.*


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## nygirl (Jul 14, 2003)

Midtown Manhattan.


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

Toronto


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## Sen (Nov 13, 2004)

samsonyuen said:


> Toronto


not really, the financial core is still mostly office space, though the entertainment district and shopping district are very close.


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## xzmattzx (Dec 24, 2004)

samsonyuen said:


> Toronto


I would disagree. Toronto has a very broad and diverse downtown, but everything is in a little section of downtown. The business center is in the Financial District, the retail is at Dundas Square, government is at Queen's Park and whatever the area around Nathan Phillips Square is called, etc.


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## will.exe (Aug 9, 2006)

Toronto is a good example, good planning has made it that way. In fact most major Canadian cities are examples of that...Ottawa, Montreal, Vancouver. 

Also Chicago, Philly, and other major American cities. I think because North American cities developed rapidly out of "singularity" or sorts rather than developing gradually and annexing surrounding communities like European cities, there is more of a central CBD, whereas European cities tend to have several "CBDs".


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## gonzo (Jul 30, 2006)

^^I would have to disagree about Ottawa.

-The Byward market/Rideau area is outside of the CBD.
-Elgin street is outside (albeit it runs right next to it)
-Most places of interest on Bank St. are outside.
-Chinatown and Little Italy are well outside.


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## zachus22 (Dec 4, 2006)

Toronto's downtown as a whole is extremely versatile, but I think you guys are right in saying that its not concentrated into one area. Different sections of Toronto serve different purposes and cater to specific audiences and demographics, just like you guys said.

I find Montreal's got a nice mix going on though.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

Hong Kong's central business district is also home to a bar district, lots of residentials along the hillsides overlooking it, and a huge gathering place for Filipino maids on the weekend. It's not just busy during the work day.


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## Anymodal (Mar 5, 2005)

gonzo said:


> ^^I would have to disagree about Ottawa.
> 
> -The Byward market/Rideau area is outside of the CBD.
> -Elgin street is outside (albeit it runs right next to it)
> ...


What about the Holt and Renfrew on Queen, Sparks street, etc.

most blocks within the CBD have a cafe or restaurant on their first floor. Just look around.


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

Chatelet-les-halles in Paris :laugh:


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## b13 (Jan 14, 2007)

I have to agree Toronto has an amazing downtown area! It's a great city


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## TohrAlkimista (Dec 18, 2006)

really strange, [email protected] said Tokyo! objective as always!


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## Filip (Oct 10, 2003)

xzmattzx said:


> I would disagree. Toronto has a very broad and diverse downtown, but everything is in a little section of downtown. The business center is in the Financial District, the retail is at Dundas Square, government is at Queen's Park and whatever the area around Nathan Phillips Square is called, etc.


It depends.. I'd call "downtown" everything from the Bloor area down to the lake. It's where all the shops, cultural venues and entertainement are. Not to mention the heart of the Canadian economy.


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## [email protected] (May 7, 2007)

The answer of this question is Tokyo and Osaka. 
But it isn't such simplicity. 
The reason is because there are a lot of big busy streets and downtowns in Tokyo. 

Almost as same as the number of the station, 
I am not exaggerated even if I say that there are downtowns and busy streets. 
In greater Tokyo, more numbers increase.

Perhaps all world cities don't extend to a step of Greater Tokyo. 

*All-Purpose Downtowns *
*Greater Tokyo*
*Tokyo prefecture*
Ginza and Yurakuchou and Hibiya area, Shinjuku area, Shibuya area, Nihonbashi and Tokyo station and Marunouchi area, Ikebukuro area, Harajuku and Omotesando and Aoyama area, Roppngi and Akasaka area, Ueno area, Daikanyama and Jiyugaoka area, Simokitazawa area, Kitijuji area, Machida area, Tachikawa area, Hatiouji area, Kinshicyou area,....... 
*Kanagawa prefecture*
Yokohama station area, MM21 area, Motomachi area, SAkuragichou area, Kasawaki area.......
*Saitama prefecture*
Omiya area, Urawa area, Kawagoe area,......
*Chiba prefecture*
Chiba station area, Kashiwa area, Funabashi area, Nishifunabashi area,......

The above-mentioned town is the busy streets which can serve as all purposes. I stop it if I give it elsewhere because I am boundless.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

hkskyline said:


> Hong Kong's central business district is also home to a bar district, lots of residentials along the hillsides overlooking it, and a huge gathering place for Filipino maids on the weekend. It's not just busy during the work day.


Central is also an upscale shopping area.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

WANCH said:


> Central is also an upscale shopping area.



So are Causeway Bay and Tsim Sha Tsui, but Central's bars and residentials are more unique, which sets it apart from other districts.


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## gonzo (Jul 30, 2006)

Anymodal said:


> What about the Holt and Renfrew on Queen, Sparks street, etc.
> 
> most blocks within the CBD have a cafe or restaurant on their first floor. Just look around.


Yeah they're there. I just find other places more lively on evenings and weekends.


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## Yörch1 (Oct 31, 2006)

In Mexico City would be Chapultepec-Polanco area. This is the zone that borders the Chapultepec Park (Mexico City's Central Park). It works as a business, leisure, cultural and commercial center.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

hkskyline said:


> So are Causeway Bay and Tsim Sha Tsui, but Central's bars and residentials are more unique, which sets it apart from other districts.


Central is unique because most expats hang out there compared to other districts. 

Anyway, another all-purpose downtown would be *Makati* in Metro Manila. It's already a city within a city.










Other than the offices housing some major corporation both local and foreign, Makati has malls that cater to all classes. Malls such as Greenbelt double as an entertainment centre at night filled with restaurants, bars and clubs. 

There are also 24 hours fastfood restaurants here especially for those working in call centres.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

WANCH said:


> Central is unique because most expats hang out there compared to other districts.


Does having expats roaming around make a downtown 'all-purpose'? Many cities strive to make their city centres mixed-use, meaning after the offices close, the area doesn't empty out and become a ghost town. Hong Kong achieves that by maintain residentials within close proximity of the offices, albeit not many are affordable to the average middle class family. There are many shops and restaurants, but they are on the high-end, hence will be far less crowded than the other malls in the city that cater for the mass population. Therefore, while the area is bursting with people over the lunch hour, it won't achieve nearly as much traffic flow in the off-hours and on weekends. 24-hour fast food restaurants such as McDonalds are common these days anyway, so I wouldn't consider them any more helpful in making a downtown 'all-purpose'.


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## xzmattzx (Dec 24, 2004)

Filip said:


> It depends.. I'd call "downtown" everything from the Bloor area down to the lake. It's where all the shops, cultural venues and entertainement are. Not to mention the heart of the Canadian economy.


To me, that is too broad of a definition of "downtown". I think that the downtown is strictly where the skyscrapers are. Otherwise, several cities have all-purpose downtowns. Even my city of Wilmington could then be considered to have an all-purpose downtown, because anything in the central area of the city could be included in Downtown. That would mean that Makret Street (the shopping area), the Riverfront (up-and-coming mixed-use area), and a couple other areas would be included. I don't relaly consider them to be "Downtown" though; they are all their own little neighborhoods to me.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

hkskyline said:


> Does having expats roaming around make a downtown 'all-purpose'? Many cities strive to make their city centres mixed-use, meaning after the offices close, the area doesn't empty out and become a ghost town. Hong Kong achieves that by maintain residentials within close proximity of the offices, albeit not many are affordable to the average middle class family. There are many shops and restaurants, but they are on the high-end, hence will be far less crowded than the other malls in the city that cater for the mass population. Therefore, while the area is bursting with people over the lunch hour, it won't achieve nearly as much traffic flow in the off-hours and on weekends. 24-hour fast food restaurants such as McDonalds are common these days anyway, so I wouldn't consider them any more helpful in making a downtown 'all-purpose'.


True but I was just saying that alot of HK's expat community hangout in the Central area more compared to other districts in HK. Most residentials within Central are most upper middle or upper class but there are several residentials that are middle or even lower middle class. Most of them lie around The Centre or within the escalator areas of lower Mid-Levels. But some of the high-end flats within Mid-Levels are still a distance from Central since there are several parks seperating the two.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

WANCH said:


> True but I was just saying that alot of HK's expat community hangout in the Central area more compared to other districts in HK. Most residentials within Central are most upper middle or upper class but there are several residentials that are middle or even lower middle class. Most of them lie around The Centre or within the escalator areas of lower Mid-Levels. But some of the high-end flats within Mid-Levels are still a distance from Central since there are several parks seperating the two.


That in itself is not so true either, since there are enormous expat communities on the south side of Hong Kong Island, namely Repulse Bay and Stanley, in addition to Discovery Bay and Lamma Island.

The lower-class residential areas of Central are slowly being torn down for redevelopment. It's not easy to buy in now as existing owners are awaiting expropriation. They are all over the hillsides stretching west towards Kennedy Town, not just around The Centre.

There are actually very few parks in Midlevels. Many people have complained that Midlevels is wall-to-wall skyscrapers as one building blocks the next's harbour views. The big one is Hong Kong Park, but that is not a neighbourhood park per se. Not all these flats are walkable to Central though, but there is a lot of public transit options available.


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## muc (Sep 29, 2005)

> I think that the downtown is strictly where the skyscrapers are.


By that definition there would not be no "downtown" area at all in most European cities.

Referring to the op's question I would say most German (maybe even most European) cities' CBDs are pretty much all-purpose, at least compared to typical north American cities. Of course this depends a lot on how you define a "CBD".


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

muc said:


> By that definition there would not be no "downtown" area at all in most European cities.
> 
> Referring to the op's question I would say most German (maybe even most European) cities' CBDs are pretty much all-purpose, at least compared to typical north American cities. Of course this depends a lot on how you define a "CBD".


Hong Kong would have a very big downtown then.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

hkskyline said:


> That in itself is not so true either, since there are enormous expat communities on the south side of Hong Kong Island, namely Repulse Bay and Stanley, in addition to Discovery Bay and Lamma Island.
> 
> The lower-class residential areas of Central are slowly being torn down for redevelopment. It's not easy to buy in now as existing owners are awaiting expropriation. They are all over the hillsides stretching west towards Kennedy Town, not just around The Centre.
> 
> There are actually very few parks in Midlevels. Many people have complained that Midlevels is wall-to-wall skyscrapers as one building blocks the next's harbour views. The big one is Hong Kong Park, but that is not a neighbourhood park per se. Not all these flats are walkable to Central though, but there is a lot of public transit options available.


Thats the advantage of public transportation especially the mini bus. But some of the flats around HK Park are easy access to the Admiralty area espcially Pacific Place.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

WANCH said:


> Thats the advantage of public transportation especially the mini bus. But some of the flats around HK Park are easy access to the Admiralty area espcially Pacific Place.


Minibuses provide very useful connections throughout Hong Kong. Midlevels actually has quite a lot of choice, including escalator, bus, and taxi. As people there are generally well-off, taxi is actually a very common option.

I doubt people are going to walk downhill in the morning across Hong Kong Park to reach Admiralty. The trek uphill in the afternoon is unimaginable in 30C weather.


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## gonzo (Jul 30, 2006)

muc said:


> Referring to the op's question I would say most German (maybe even most European) cities' CBDs are pretty much all-purpose, at least compared to typical north American cities. Of course this depends a lot on how you define a "CBD".


I think most European downtowns (as only _office_ building are required for a there to be a CBD) would be considered "all-purpose" if one inluded residences as a 'purpose', but when I say 'downtown' I refer more specifically to places of destination.

Europe tends to have a different approach where the 'business district' is less defined and blends-in more with residences. So in the case of Europe one can say that (for practical purposes...not historical) there is no single downtown district....OR, depending on how you define 'downtown', one could say that the ENTIRE MUNICIPALITY is a downtown of sorts....Does anyone agree?


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## xzmattzx (Dec 24, 2004)

gonzo said:


> I think most European downtowns (as only _office_ building are required for a there to be a CBD) would be considered "all-purpose" if one inluded residences as a 'purpose', but when I say 'downtown' I refer more specifically to places of destination.
> 
> Europe tends to have a different approach where the 'business district' is less defined and blends-in more with residences...Does anyone agree?


It appears that you are correct, the more I read threads in this section and see what Europeans say about cities over there.

Would this analogy fit types of cities?

Each city is like a plate of food, with meat, different vegetables, rice, and so on.. North American cities have each food on their own little sections of the plate, and are eaten separately. European cities take all of the food and mix it all together so that you get a little bit of everything in each forkful.


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## gonzo (Jul 30, 2006)

^Yes, I think Europe is a definite spaghetti...or perhaps a linguini. :laugh:


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