# A motorway from Europe to the Middle East



## RKC (Jun 16, 2007)

^^ haha nice!


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## aswnl (Jun 6, 2004)

I would rather complete the E75 from Belgrade to Tessaloniki. There are still two major sections in Serbia and Macedonia which have not been upgraded to motorway standards yet.

And for Turkey: although relations with Greece are historically not good, thinking about an upgrade of the E84 to connect to the Greek A2 wouldn't be such a bad idea...


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## ed110220 (Nov 12, 2008)

Isn't this an update of the old dream for the Berlin-Baghdad railway?


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

How many km of motorways and expressways exist in Turkey? Any map?


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## Messi (Nov 18, 2007)

Here is a map but it's HUGE and very detailed.
http://www.kgm.gov.tr/SiteCollectionImages/KGMimages/Haritalar/Turkiye.jpg

As for 2011, Turkey has 21.500 km of 2x2 highways and 2100 km of 3x2 motorways.


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

Messi said:


> Here is a map but it's HUGE and very detailed.
> http://www.kgm.gov.tr/SiteCollectionImages/KGMimages/Haritalar/Turkiye.jpg
> 
> As for 2011, Turkey has 21.500 km of 2x2 highways and 2100 km of 3x2 motorways.


Cannot believe, 3 times Italy!!??:nuts:
Are 2x2 highways real motorways or road with intersections, traffic lights, roundabots...?


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Most 2x2 expressways in Turkey cannot be considered motorways or motorway-like roads. They frequently feature driveway access, roundabouts, traffic lights, etc.


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## shpirtkosova (Jun 7, 2009)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Most 2x2 expressways in Turkey cannot be considered motorways or motorway-like roads. They frequently feature driveway access, roundabouts, traffic lights, etc.


In the UK most dual carriageways/expressways feature almost all of these things except driveway acess.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Yes, and they are not a motorway for that reason


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## Messi (Nov 18, 2007)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Most 2x2 expressways in Turkey cannot be considered motorways or motorway-like roads. They frequently feature driveway access, roundabouts, traffic lights, etc.


The essential main routes have indeed motorway quality. By main routes I mean expressways such as the Black Sea Expressway connecting Ankara along the whole Black sea coast to Georgia, or Ankara-Eskisehir-Bursa route connecting Ankara to the Industrial region of southern Marmara.

Would you not classify the black sea express way as a motorway?


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

So, you can drive all the way from Istanbul to Georgia only by motorways?


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Most of these roads are motorway-like between cities; 2x2 lanes, median, barriers, shoulders, etc. However, the main problem that doesn't classify them as motorways are the fact that not all intersections are consistently grade-separated. Side-roads may dead-end on these roads, or there may be roundabouts or traffic lights near cities. However, there is certainly a considerable amount of roads in Turkey that can be considered motorways.


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## Messi (Nov 18, 2007)

italystf said:


> So, you can drive all the way from Istanbul to Georgia only by motorways?


Actually from Bulgarian border until Georgian Border. You must drive Istanbul via Ankara and to the north again. From Bulgarian border until Ankara it is 3x2 and from Ankara to Georgian border it is 2x2.



> Most of these roads are motorway-like between cities; 2x2 lanes, median, barriers, shoulders, etc. However, the main problem that doesn't classify them as motorways are the fact that not all intersections are consistently grade-separated. Side-roads may dead-end on these roads, or there may be roundabouts or traffic lights near cities. However, there is certainly a considerable amount of roads in Turkey that can be considered motorways.


That's true. You can drive like for several hours like on a motorway but when you approach a city then suddenly you have traffic light, roundabouts etc.. and as soon as you leave the city you have motorway standard agin. I think the reason for that (at least for the black sea and mediterranean express ways) there is no space for ring roads around the cities since on the one side you have the sea and on the other side the mountains. You needed to build a bridge over the sea which would destroy the coastal area and would be expensive or you must dig several tunnels through the mountains and that would increase the total cost immensely as well. Thus I guess they decided to go through cities. We can say that the motorways end shortly before the cities begin and start again when you leave the cities. That would be a fair description


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## PhirgataZFs1694 (Feb 5, 2010)

The dream is officially dead already...hno:


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## PhirgataZFs1694 (Feb 5, 2010)

PhirgataZFs1694 said:


> The dream is officially dead already...hno:


And another blow


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## mitasis (Feb 21, 2007)

From a greek point of view: There is also a possibility of driving to Istanbul from western Europe by using the Greece-Italy ferry crossing. This contains just full motorway standards (Until Bari in Italy full motorway, from greek port of Ionian sea, Igoumenitsa until greek turkish borders with A2 full motorway) except the part from greek turkish borders until Silivri (80 km from Istanbul) which is a 2X2 nice road but not a motorway. From Silivri to Istanbul its a full motorway. I hope soon Turkey will announce a motorway from Silivri until greek turkish border in Ipsala and extension to Canakkale-Izmir inculding a Dardanelles bridge


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