# EUROPE | High Speed Rail



## CharlieP (Sep 12, 2002)

The Talgo "duck" reminds me of a vehicle from a 1980s sci-fi programme


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## CharlieP (Sep 12, 2002)

Of course, I've just realised that for existing Eurostar sets to be able to reach Cologne, the German line would have to be upgraded to 25kV 50Hz...


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## patroeski (Jul 8, 2005)

These are the new trains that the HSA(Dutch) and the NMBS(Belgian) will use on the HST4-line between Brussels and Amsterdam :cheers:


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## Momo1435 (Oct 3, 2005)

^^
It's going to be a very ugly train that probaby won't work properly at all. They bougth the wrong trains from the wrong manufacturer and they are going to regret the choise they made. Het zal gewoon bagger zijn. 



patroeski said:


> Does anbody know if they are also going to rebuilt the track between Aachen and Colonge?


No, because they've already upgraded the line between Cologne and Düren for a maximum speed of 250 km/h. The last part between Düren and Aachen is set to be upgraded for 200 km/h, so no new lines.



CharlieP said:


> Of course, I've just realised that for existing Eurostar sets to be able to reach Cologne, the German line would have to be upgraded to 25kV 50Hz...


It's cheaper to upgrade the Eurostar trains for 15kV 16 2/3Hz because the Germans are not going to change the current, because of major interoperability problems in their domestic services that also use the line in Germany.


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## patroeski (Jul 8, 2005)

Momo1435 said:


> It's going to be a very ugly train that probaby won't work properly at all. They bougth the wrong trains from the wrong manufacturer and they are going to regret the choise they made. Het zal gewoon bagger zijn.


Don't know what you find beautiful but I think they look awesome.

In my opinion "the ducktrains" look like cheap toys. I think the older Spanish HSL-trains are much nicer:


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## Crocodine (Feb 20, 2005)

The AVE 102 (Talgo 350 "The Duck") is gorgeous.


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## ZZ-II (May 10, 2006)

patroeski said:


> These are the new trains that the HSA(Dutch) and the NMBS(Belgian) will use on the HST4-line between Brussels and Amsterdam :cheers:


that design is wonderful!!


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## Momo1435 (Oct 3, 2005)

patroeski said:


> Don't know what you find beautiful but I think they look awesome.
> 
> In my opinion "the ducktrains" look like cheap toys. I think the older Spanish HSL-trains are much nicer:


It doesn't matter how they look on the picture, they will look like crap and perform like crap like all AnsaldoBreda highspeed trains. Even if they are designed by Pininfarina.

I've got something against these trains even before one of them is completed, maybe it's even the fact that not one of them is even completed yet. It's already too late, the line will be finished way before the trains are operational (if they ever will). Therefor I can not and will say anything good about these trains and the best thing is that I won't be proven wrong (or should I say the saddest thing).


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## Reivajar (Sep 3, 2003)

In Spain there are different EMU's for High Speed Lines from different manufacturers and for different gauges (in Spain there are two types of gauges).

First generation: Class 100 (Class 101 as Euromed for Iberic-gauge lines on Mediterranean Corridor). From Alstom, it's a TGV-Atlantique development. Top speed: 300 kph (Class 101: 220 kph).

_Class 100 in Santa Justa Railway Station, Seville_









_Class 101 in original livery_









_Class 101 unit with a new power-car head that replaces other one lost in a accident_









Class 490 (Alaris), manufactured by Alstom and based on ETR-470 Cisalpino Italiano. It's used on Madrid-Valencia corridor, in Iberic-gauge. Tops speed: 220 kph.

_Class 490_









Class 102 (Talgo 350, "The Duck"). Bought for Madrid-Barcelona corridor (UIC gauge). Manufacturer: Talgo. Top speed: 330 kph.

Pics posted by Fernan:


fernan said:


>


_In new Renfe livery_









Class 103 (ICE-3E, "Velaro"). Now, it's nicknamed as "The Dolphin". Manufactured by Siemens. Top speed: 350 kph. It's going to be used for Madrid-Barcelona non-stop services.

_In Innotrans 2006 in Berlin, with new Renfe livery_









Class 104. Manufactured by Alstom. Really, it's a four cars class 490 version for UIC gauge. It's used for regional services on HSL (Madrid-Ciudad Real-Puertollano, Sevilla-Córdoba, in the future Madrid-Segovia-Valladolid). Top speed: 250 kph.











There are also units that can run on UIC gauge tracks and in Iberic-gauge tracks. 

Talgo 200. Trainset composed by Talgo VI cars. It runs on HSL (UIC gauge) from Madrid to Córdoba headed by a class 252 loco . From Córdoba to Málaga it runs on conventional track (Iberic-gauge) and with a class 269 loco. Top speed: 200 kph.

_Talgo 200 on HSL headed by a class 252 loco_









Altaria. Trainset composed by Talgo VII cars. It is headed by a class 252 loco on UIC gauge lines. Top speed: 220 kph. These trainsets can run on Iberian-gauge lines, headed by other locos, as class 269, class 333 or class 319. 









Class 120. ("the Cuttlefish"). Manufactured by Caf. It can change track gauge non stopping before. Top speed: 250 kph (on UIC gauge lines), 220 kph (on Iberic-gauge lines). It's now used for Madrid-Barcelona services because HSL ends in Tarragona, therefore UIC tracks don't reach to Barcelona.

_On Mediterranean Coast_









Class 130 ("the Litt'e duck"). Really it's a Talgo VII cars composition with two motor-cars heads. This upgrading allows to change gauge non stopping before, and non changing the loco. Top speed: 250 kph (on UIC gauge lines), 220 kph (on Iberic-gauge lines).


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## zoltan (Dec 16, 2003)

Bitxofo said:


> ^^Then, it is not so fast...
> :dunno:
> Examples:
> BCN-Madrid: 670 km. in 3h55min (2007), 2h30min (2008).
> Madrid-Seville: 471 km. in 2h15min (2006).


BCN-Madrid: 625 km, 2h14min (2008)


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## Bitxofo (Feb 3, 2005)

^^Thanks for the correction, ZOLTi!!
kay:


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## Bitxofo (Feb 3, 2005)

I add the fastest diesel train on Earth, from Spain:



TintinMadrid said:


> Hace poco me dijo un jerifalte de Talgo que incluso se propuso a Renfe que parte del megacontrato de los S-130 incluyese automotores diésel basados en las BT. Y hablando de ellas (el menda tuvo la oportunidad de darse un paseíto en una de ellas a más de 200 km/h):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:wink2:


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## patroeski (Jul 8, 2005)

^^ Nice trains

This is my top 5:

1) ICE 3



















2) TGV Duplex



















3) Eurostar



















4) TGV



















5) X2000 (Swedish), not that fast but a real beauty


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## Boeing! (Aug 16, 2006)

Italian HSL trains:


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## Unravel (Feb 21, 2006)

patroeski said:


> ^^ Nice trains
> 
> This is my top 5:


Belgium has an excellent train system. I lived there for 10 months (in Brussels) and I could check it, trains everywhere and at every time (in fact I think they have the most dense train system in Europe) For high speed trains I just used Thalys (Bruxelles-midi / Brussel-zuid to Paris-Gare du Nord) and I loved it. kay:


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

the height of platforms is to small in italy.


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## GENIUS LOCI (Nov 18, 2004)

^^
true.. they're upgrading 'em, but very slowly :bash:

However in Italian main stations (Roma Termini, Milano Centrale, Napoli Centrale,etc..) they increased the height at some platforms since many years, the platforms where usually HS trains stop (I wonder why didn't they upgrad all the platforms then :bash: )

Look at this pic taken in Milano Centrale in 2002
The platform on the left of the train is higher that the one at its right: that because they upgraded only the 'passenger platform': infact in Milano Centrale every way got two platforms, one used by passengers and one closed to public just for service


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## FallenGuard (Nov 2, 2006)

What I hate about a lot of Trains is that they can't decide on a common Height for the last Step of the Exit... You have to do either a very small or a very large Step, it's so stupid here!


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## Insane alex (Aug 24, 2004)

haha! So true!


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## CharlieP (Sep 12, 2002)

Trains aren't sentient, and have very little influence over the choice of platform height.


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## Ratoncito (Dec 21, 2005)

*MÁS SOBRE TRENES TALGO // MORE ABOUT TALGO TRAINS*














*LOCOMOTORA TALGO DE VELOCIDAD ALTA PARA TRENES CONVENCIONALES
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
FAST TALGO LOCOMOTIVE FOR CONVENTIONAL TRAINS*






































*TALGO ALTARIA *






















































​


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## Karakuri (Dec 5, 2006)

Coccodrillo said:


> Not so sure, there is a really strong opposition. On the Italian side, the concerned valley's population especially. They obliged the construction companies to remove the "yards" they started to build.


The European Union granted 1 billion Euros to this project, and the three mayors of Lyon, Torino and Barcelona (a Lyon-Barcelona high speed line is also to come soon) signed an agreement concerning this line.
This line is not a mayor's whim, it's a European project, it thus can't be cancelled.


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## Coccodrillo (Sep 30, 2005)

Local population managed to close the existing works area, even phisically blocking cranes, trucks, and so on.

I agree that projects involving a great number of people should not be blocked by local residents, but that is what they do.


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## Think1st (Feb 18, 2006)

It would be verry intresting to know about legal circumstances in the different countries. I know in France they are able to relocate people if a project has a high impact of the nations interests. In Germany for example it takes years to find an acceptable consens.
Do someone knows how this will be handeled in Italy or Spain?


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## Coccodrillo (Sep 30, 2005)

The line is 90% in tunnel, and no houses would be demolished.


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## arriaca (Feb 28, 2006)

S - 103 (Velaro) from Spain


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## patroeski (Jul 8, 2005)

Virgin Trains:

Class 220 Voyager:










Class 221 Super Voyager:










Class 390 Pendolino:



















All of these trains have a topspeed of 200 km/h


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## andysimo123 (Jul 29, 2004)

Class 390 Pendolino's have a top speed of 225kph but the ungraded signalling isn't in place to run them at that speed.


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## Momo1435 (Oct 3, 2005)

Ok, the new Dutch NS HIspeed trains design by pininfarina build by AnsaldoBreda is out!



















And it's ugly as hell,* YUCK* I must note that it probably won't have the grill, the coupler will be there instead.


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## TohrAlkimista (Dec 18, 2006)

I'm sure that these oppositions slow down the works for construction of the HSL in this part....but really I want to see you, if such a great and huge infrastructure will destroy your land....and the abitants of Val Di Susa are a bit afraid, and because in Italy there is democracy if authorities want to build such a similar thing, they MUST talk with people and they can't oblige them. so now there is a "round table" to decide a good plan.


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## Glodenox (Mar 26, 2007)

Oww... I was hoping that the design would look nicer 

I hope that it will look a lot better with the grill replaced... Otherwise I'll be seeing these trains each day hno: 

- Greetz Glodenox


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## Prestonian (Sep 11, 2002)

Really don't like those 'duck' typre trains.


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## Bitxofo (Feb 3, 2005)

Momo1435 said:


> ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is a little bit ugly...
:runaway:


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## Cristovão471 (May 9, 2006)

Eww, those HiSpeed trains have an ugly ass design

Yeah that grill is fugly or should I say ugly as '****' lol.
Stupid dutch.


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2007)

chris_underscore47 said:


> Eww, those HiSpeed trains have an ugly ass design
> 
> Yeah that grill is fugly or should I say ugly as '****' lol.
> Stupid dutch.


You no need insult or being unpolite to express your opinion, don't you?hno:


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## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

patroeski said:


> I think its nice to compare all the Europe's HSL trains that drive. It would be nice if somebody had a map of all the existing HSL-lines of europe, Than we could see where all these trains drive.
> - Thalys(Belgian, Dutch, French, Deutch)
> 
> Paris North – Brussels-South – Antwerp Central – Rotterdam Central – Den Haag HS – Schiphol – Amsterdam Central
> ...


Paris-North–Brussels-South–Liège-Guillemins–Aachen–Cologne


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## Avatar (Sep 11, 2002)

Bitxofo said:


> It is a little bit ugly...
> :runaway:



industrial design off the rails! Just like that pendolino virgin crap. Ugly as shit.


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## hix (Jun 11, 2006)

I think these Virgin Pendolino's are very nice. It's all a matter of taste...


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## Avatar (Sep 11, 2002)

^^
The yellow and red ***** knob. Or the yellow and Red Tadpole? It looks like some crazy suped up lady beetle from sega's Sonic and Friends.

It breaks so many aesthetic rules.

Taste is however relative and the train is relatively disgusting.


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## Momo1435 (Oct 3, 2005)

frozen said:


> You no need insult or being unpolite to express your opinion, don't you?hno:


I agree with chris_underscore47, stupid Dutch!! and yes I'm Dutch.


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