# MUNICH | Public Transport



## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

^^ What, in your opinion, makes it the best network in Europe?


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## Junkie (Oct 5, 2007)

Svartmetall said:


> ^^ What, in your opinion, makes it the best network in Europe?


Well first of all its very clean, second very fast and third most important theres no such crowd like Moscow metro or Wien U-Bahn.


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

^^^

Well, yes it is probably one of world's safest and cleanest systems. Regarding the crowdness factor i would consider U3/U6 stammstrecke or the U2 nord similar crowded compared to vienna U1 or U3. Same goes for the station Marienplatz and Sendlinger Tor what i would call pretty crowded stations in global scales.


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

One of the most important facts is that it is relatively new (late 60s), therefore the stations have larger dimensions than in older networks (like Vienna or London) which makes them less crowded. Munich Underground is safe, fast and so on, but unfortunately it lacks some tangential connections (also in combination with other transport systems), doesn't run 24 hours and is quite expensive (single fare 2,30€ in the city).


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

^^ Very few networks run 24 hours. Besides, it only shuts for 3 hours, hardly a terrible service! Single fares are expensive everywhere as they help to subsidise regular commuters. 

As far as radial connections between lines goes, I think this is again a problem that a lot of networks suffer from. Stockholm and Prague are again two similar sized cities which have the same problem.

I love the Munich system all the same though. I think it's highly impressive in a city of Munich's size to have such developed transport infrastructure.


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## city_thing (May 25, 2006)

I love the Munich system too. ****, I'd marry it if I could. 

Munich doesn't know how lucky it is to have it.


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

thun said:


> One of the most important facts is that it is relatively new (late 60s), therefore the stations have larger dimensions than in older networks (like Vienna or London) which makes them less crowded.


Vienna's subway system (1976) is even younger than Munich one's (1971)! There is only one older line - the U6 - but i would not count Vienna's U6 as a real heavy rail MRT. It is more or less a "Stadtbahn". 




thun said:


> Munich Underground is safe, fast and so on, but unfortunately it lacks some tangential connections (also in combination with other transport systems), doesn't run 24 hours and is quite expensive (single fare 2,30€ in the city).


1) Can you name 10 Systems world wide that have a 24h service?? Munich is laking in service on certain lines at certain times. E.g. U2 Nord from 9:00 to 15:00 has only 10 minute service! That sucks totally!

2) Well, for effective tangenial connections the city must exceed a certain size. Let's say urban area should be around 5 million (see Madrid). Munich has only 2,0 to 2,6 depending on the definition. But even Munich is getting a tangential line: When U3 to 'Moosach' is completed i would name that line up to 'Münchner Freiheit' a tangential. 

3) Do not forget that Munich is one of the richest cities worldwide, so 2,30 Euro for crossing the city over let's say 20 km is not much expensive


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

Regarding tangential connections:
It would maybe possible to realize one on as S-Bahn on the Nordring and Südring (a rail circle around the city centre) without many difficulties but DB doesn't want to realize it.

Comparision to Vienna: I only know U4, the stations there are small (but 100 years old if I'm right), Karlsplatz is just huge.
Compared to elder systems like Vienna (the old Stadtbahn sections), Berlin, London or Barcelona you can see a big difference in the dimension of the stations, for sure.

And the fares: Compared to cities like Madrid or Barcelona (similar size, better service for the latter) with about 1,20€ single fare Munich IS expensive. Commuter fares (month tickets) aren't cheap either. Students e.g. have to pay full fare and can't ride for free or at least for a reduced fare (like in many other cities), etc. Therefore, I would say the MVV is expensive compared to other cities. Btw.: The argumentation that Munich is rich doesn't work well because after paying rents for its flat, etc. the normal Munich doesn't have more money in his pocket than anyone else.


All I want to say: It is a good system, without doubt, but it isn't perfect at all. If you ride it regularly you are often annoyed about these points.


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

^^ Pfft, you don't know how lucky you are! 

Single fare into the city from suburb: $6.50

If I want to cross the city: $13 (same price as a day ticket)

Non integrated (only one bus company out of four possible bus companies, not valid on trains or ferries) 10 ride ticket for a University student: $40

Monthly fare (ditto to the above - non-integrated): $180 - no university student discount

Discovery pass (only "integrated" ticket in Auckland): $210 a month - no university student discount!

Auckland only has buses, a few ferries most of which are not included in the discovery pass and three train lines (which offers a diesel service every 30 minutes and doesn't serve most of the city).


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

thun said:


> Btw.: The argumentation that Munich is rich doesn't work well because after paying rents for its flat, etc. the normal Munich doesn't have more money in his pocket than anyone else.


Refering to purchasing power i do not agree:










But you are right that in general Munich representive tend to state that everything would be so cheap. But there is still no extra fare for students...


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

Rents in Munich are just crazy, I have al lot of friends that pay around 400€ for a single room (students), and they even don't live in the centre but in 50 year old buildings. And lots of people don't earn more than elsewhere (e.g. all people working in public service).

Btw., the biggest troublemaker of Munichs public transportation wasn't mentioned yet. Laughably small problems on the S-Bahn Stammstrecke (the tunnel between Hauptbahnhof and Ostbahnhof) normally cause pure chaos that isn't limited to the S-Bahn but also affects regional trains with delays.

I'm aware that Munich has a pretty good system compared to many other cities, for sure. But it is far from being perfect, it has the same problems like many other systems probably do.


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

^^ I think that is the case in Frankfurt too. Small delays in the S-bahn tunnel there cause massive knock-on effects.


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## city_thing (May 25, 2006)

I used to get the s-bahn from Aufhausen to Marienplatz twice a day, and there was always a lot of times when the train would stop on the tracks (presumably to let other trains go past). Does that still happen, or has the issue been rectified?


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## Urbanus (Jul 11, 2006)

Maybe it's not the best in the world, or even in Europe, but it is definately one of the best systems I've seen and tried!

I really like Munich U+S-Bahn a lot. Of course there is always room for improvements, but overall I think it is a great system, and perfect for a midsize bigcity like Munich.

One of the things I really like is that it have a really good layout and are very well planned. As some have mentioned it is relatively new, and that is one factor, but also I think it have been planned very well - it doesn't have that lne that were never built, or that compromise because there suddenly wasn't money or time have changed, like many other systems suffers from. At least not what I'm aware of.
And I really like the layout. It covers the city well. Ofcoruse there is always places hat could be better covered, but I like the way the lines meets 2 and 2 in the center and then spreads out to cover a larger part of the surrounding city and the way there is never more than two lines to share same tracks. 

I like the stations that seems big and spacious, with large capacity in the center. 

One of my favorite thing about the S-Bahn is the 3-platform-stations in the center. With an island platform in the middle and on each side, to seperate the passenger flow. It is one of the most perfect planned solution for such busy stations I've seen, and something many other systems must envy.
Ofcoruse it would be good with a second tunnel to increase capacity and to prevent delays from spreding around, like many have mentioned, but that's the same story i many other cities, like Berlin, Frankfurt, Copenhagen and so on. It would be perfect with a two central sections like in Hamburg. But compared to all the other cities with only one central section that all S-Bahn-lines must share, I think the big stations, and the 3-platform solution is far better than what we have here in Copenhagen or in Berlin or many other places. I would switch any time if I could.

That is some of the things that makes this system that great, and one of the best I've seen. Also it is clean, efficient, fast etc., crowded (as it should be), but not too crowded. 

I have never seen the perfect metro system anywhere, and I don't think there will ever be one. There are always things that could be better. Bet this is the closest I've seen.

Together with Stockholm Tunnelbana, it is my favorite system (but Stockholm Tunnelbana does not have nearly as good layout as Munich U+S-Bahn).


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

^^ As far as I know the Berlin S-bahn doesn't suffer from severe delays because of bunching or knock-on effects of different lines because there are fewer shared lines than there are in the likes of Frankfurt, Munich and Copenhagen.

Correct me if I'm wrong though.


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

city_thing said:


> I used to get the s-bahn from Aufhausen to Marienplatz twice a day, and there was always a lot of times when the train would stop on the tracks (presumably to let other trains go past). Does that still happen, or has the issue been rectified?


There are several projects on the S1, 2, 4 and 8 to build seperate tracks for the S-Bahn. They want to introduce a 10 minute interval on all lines and this demands seperate tracks. Regarding the S2 east (Aufhausen, Erding) there are 2 major projects: 
1) "Erdinger Ringschluss" the S2 will cross Erding with 1 new underground station and will go further to the airport. The project will go U/C the next months or is even yet U/C i do not know exactly.

2) They will widen the number of tracks to 4 until "Markt Schwaben" so the S2 will be complete independent from other rail traffic. 

3) They will improve the tracks between "Markt Schwaben" and Erding by removing all remaining level crossings.

For a map see http://www.nachbarschaftsbeirat.de/...ftsbeirat/diskussionsgrundlagen/Anbindung.pdf


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## flierfy (Mar 4, 2008)

Svartmetall said:


> ^^ As far as I know the Berlin S-bahn doesn't suffer from severe delays because of bunching or knock-on effects of different lines because there are fewer shared lines than there are in the likes of Frankfurt, Munich and Copenhagen.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong though.


Berlins S-Bahn runs along main lines but is completely separated and therefore independent. It has it's own tracks, it's own power supply and even junctions are grade-separated. It is simply the ideal of a S-Bahn.
Back to München. The S-Bahn there isn't far off that ideal either. All it needs are a few more tracks and a second cross-city tunnel.


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

...which would cost several billions. For me, that's "far". 
Even a second tunnel wouldn't solve all problems. To reach this they would have to build seperate tracks on every line which is just impossible.
I often (up to 4 times in 5 working days) had the problem that a S-Bahn with minimum delay (maybe 2min) came out of the Stammstrecke right in front of a regional train on S8 to Geltendorf. The result was every time the same: The regional train has to go slow (because the S-Bahn in front stops at every station) and in Geltendorf the delay was 15min, later you have to hurry to catch your connection. That's far from optimal, I would say.


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## flierfy (Mar 4, 2008)

thun said:


> ...which would cost several billions. For me, that's "far".
> Even a second tunnel wouldn't solve all problems. To reach this they would have to build seperate tracks on every line which is just impossible.


A good transportation system doesn't come for free. However, the benefits of all these improvements are greater than the costs. And it is neither impossible of constructing the S-Bahns own tracks.


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

But won't happen on most lines because the density of normal trains isn't high enough that it's necessary (even if it "sometimes" causes problems). The second tunnel will probably be built, but financing it is always a problem. And the new airport link will have to come some day although noone has any idea how it would/should look like. So lots of things will happen sooner or later.


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

^^^

let's sum up:

*S1 west* - YES it needs seperate tracks, until now there are no precise ideas about how to solve the S-Bahn connection to Freising and Flughafen. IMO S1 west is the line that is most far away from being perfect.

*S2 west* - It already has seperate tracks up to Petereshausen. With the new S3 to Altomünster there will be 10 minute service up to Dachau during most of the time.

*S4 west* - gets it independent tracks very soon to Mammendorf. U/C

*S8 west* - Will get its seperate tracks up to Buchenau where also the 10 minute service will end. Under planning. 

*S5 west* - It already has it's seperate tracks.

*S6 west* - Seperate tracks up to Gauting. I do not think there is any need for further extension because regular train traffic is quite low.

*S7 west* - It already has it's seperate tracks.


*S2 east* - It will get seperate tracks up to Markt Schwaben. From there on it already has seperate tracks.

*S4 east* - Has it's own tracks.

*S5 east* - I do not think there is any need for further extension because regular train traffic is nearly zero.

*S6 east* - I do not think there is any need for further extension because regular train traffic is nearly zero.


So there is only the S1 west where are no certain details about any extension. If they finish the S4 west S8 west and the S2 east there will be really almost no influence of regular train service on the S-Bahn service.


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

Somehow i like this page:

http://www.stadtkreation.de/munich/muenchen_animation.html

it is showing a different concept for a second inner city crossing for the s-bahn despite the 2. stammstrecken tunnel.


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

It shows the proposed alternative to use the existing "Südring" for S-Bahn. Now, it "only" is used by regional and intercity trains to Salzburg-Vienna and Innsbruck-Verona.
I don't know if this would be a realistic option, but they claim it ould be much cheaper, of course. However, I think the will build the second tunnel in every case.


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## skytrax (Nov 12, 2006)

nice stations!


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## Matz32Z (Apr 7, 2006)

*[Munich] S - U Bahn Tram and Bus*

Urban rail network

2008

http://www.mvv-muenchen.de/web4archiv/objects/download/1/schnellbahnnetz_2008.pdf

2009

http://www.mvv-muenchen.de/web4archiv/objects/download/3/schnellbahnnetz_2009.pdf

Network map, city

http://www.mvv-muenchen.de/web4archiv/objects/download/2/vlp08stadt.pdf

TRAM NETWORK PLAN

2008

http://www.mvv-muenchen.de/web4archiv/objects/download/1/trambahnplanbarrierefrei_2008.pdf

2009

http://www.mvv-muenchen.de/web4archiv/objects/download/1/trambahnplanbarrierefrei_2009.pdf

Barrier-free, city

http://www.mvv-muenchen.de/web4archiv/objects/download/2/barrierefrei_stadt_f1207englisch.pdf

Barrier-free, region

http://www.mvv-muenchen.de/web4archiv/objects/download/1
/barrierefrei_ges_f1207englisch.pdf


http://www.mvv-muenchen.de/en/home/passengeraeinformation/index.html



U Bahn Videos

U4/5 Odeonsplatz





U3/6 Odeonsplatz





U5 Laimer Platz





U5 Heimeranpalatz





U6 Harras





S Bahn


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

There is one thread about Munich alread existing. 

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=546347

Please Mods, merge that thread!


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

It's strange that this thread did not receive much attention

I did not expect that much knowing that Munich is a city of just over 1 million when I was in the Bavarian vapital last week. What I found was actually a massive, super-efficient, effective and modern urban/underground rail system with probably not too many equals in the world.

I did take a couple of photos

U-Bahn station









U-Bahn train


















Inside a modern and pleasant U-Bahn train









U-Bahn train and platform information









S-Bahn









S-Bahn









S-Bahn information









Urban railway (U-Bahn + S-Bahn) map


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

Nice pics, I like how sleek and modern the trains look in particular.


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

Hmm, a city of just over 1 million? 
That
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2586/3692232288_10678a5663_o.jpg
network is serving an area of somewhat 2,6 million. So this means the network is just "normal" for European standards.


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## Anekdote (Apr 11, 2005)

Nice pictures.
Munich's subway trains are one of my favorites. I wish Vienna's subway had the interior of the new Munich subway trains, they look so great..


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

Isek said:


> Hmm, a city of just over 1 million?
> That
> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2586/3692232288_10678a5663_o.jpg
> network is serving an area of somewhat 2,6 million. So this means the network is just "normal" for European standards.


I was referring to the city proper, not metro, urban or anything else.

However the system is a match to even some of the largest European cities by its size and capacity.


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

Oki, here are the latest stats of Munich

Municipal: 1,35 M
Urban Area: 1,9 to 2,6 M (depending on the standard you count, i prever the 2,6 M not because of "hooray my city is big" but because it covers the suburbs connected by the S-Bahn and are therefore directly dependent and connected to the core city within a more or less continuous built up area)
Offical European Metropolitian Area: 5,2 M


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## FabriFlorence (Sep 29, 2004)

Nice pics, Munich U-bahn is the best subway in Germany and one of the best system in Europe!


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## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

FabriFlorence said:


> Nice pics, Munich U-bahn is the best subway in Germany and one of the best system in Europe!


Best systems in Europe are Moscow, Madrid and Paris.


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## FabriFlorence (Sep 29, 2004)

JoKo65 said:


> Best systems in Europe are Moscow, Madrid and Paris.


I agree with you but I think Munich U-bahn works very well for a medium-size city like the bavarian capital. In Germany it's the best by far, Berlin and Hamburg have bigger subway network but the Munich one is more modern, clean and elegant.


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

Hmm i do not agree. For sure Berlin subway is miles ahead of Munich! Larger network, much much better service but of course it is more than 100 years old.


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## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Isek said:


> Hmm i do not agree. For sure Berlin subway is miles ahead of Munich! Larger network, much much better service but of course it is more than 100 years old.


In comparison to the size of the city Munich's network is much bigger than Berlin's, the subway density in Munich is higher. Big areas of Berlin are without subway.


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## flierfy (Mar 4, 2008)

The underground network in München might be relatively denser than the one in Berlin. The S-Bahn, however, regains ground for Berlin. S-Bahn and underground networks are integrated and should be regarded as one.

Both cities have an accomplished public transport network. To favour one over the other is purely subjective.


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## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

flierfy said:


> The underground network in München might be relatively denser than the one in Berlin. The S-Bahn, however, regains ground for Berlin. S-Bahn and underground networks are integrated and should be regarded as one.
> 
> Both cities have an accomplished public transport network. To favour one over the other is purely subjective.


Munich's S-Bahn network is much bigger than Berlin's. Munich is the number two in Germany after Rhine-Ruhr.


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## flierfy (Mar 4, 2008)

JoKo65 said:


> Munich's S-Bahn network is much bigger than Berlin's. Munich is the number two in Germany after Rhine-Ruhr.


Most of this network serves the surrounding suburbs but not the city itself. S-Bahn stations within the city boundaries are nowhere as numerous as in Berlin.


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## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

flierfy said:


> Most of this network serves the surrounding suburbs but not the city itself. S-Bahn stations within the city boundaries are nowhere as numerous as in Berlin.


Interesting is the agglomeration, not the administrative city borders. Most of the agglomeration Berlin is part of the city of Berlin, but in the case of Munich only a part of the agglomeration is part of the city. So it makes no sense to compare city borders. It would be like comparing apples and oranges.
So we should compare the agglomeration Munich to the agglomeration Berlin. In this case Munich wins the competition.

Munich is number two in Germany, Berlin number four.


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## Tim999 (Mar 6, 2005)

^^ so its easy to compare, but the most important is to know the surface (km2) of Berlin and Munich aglomeration and the number of citizens.

Metro area is much bigger then aglomeration. For example Stuttgart has bigger metro then Hamburg.


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## flierfy (Mar 4, 2008)

JoKo65 said:


> Interesting is the agglomeration, not the administrative city borders. Most of the agglomeration Berlin is part of the city of Berlin, but in the case of Munich only a part of the agglomeration is part of the city. So it makes no sense to compare city borders. It would be like comparing apples and oranges.
> So we should compare the agglomeration Munich to the agglomeration Berlin. In this case Munich wins the competition.


The city boundaries define an area rather precisely which makes it possible to compare. The contours of agglomerations are vague and ambiguous and therefore unsuitable for any comparison. In any case the difference of PT coverage of both cities and agglomerations is marginal.



JoKo65 said:


> Munich is number two in Germany, Berlin number four.


In which regard?


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## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Tim999 said:


> ^^ so its easy to compare, but the most important is to know the surface (km2) of Berlin and Munich aglomeration and the number of citizens.
> 
> Metro area is much bigger then aglomeration. For example Stuttgart has bigger metro then Hamburg.


I don't talk about metro area but about the agglomeration (Großraum in German). Metro area is far too big and it's more political than geographical.


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## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

flierfy said:


> The city boundaries define an area rather precisely which makes it possible to compare. The contours of agglomerations are vague and ambiguous and therefore unsuitable for any comparison. In any case the difference of PT coverage of both cities and agglomerations is marginal.


I don't agree. City boundaries differ from city to city, in some cases most of the agglomeration is part of the city, in other cases only the half of the agglomeration is part of the city.

Example 1: 

Unterföhring is a suburb of Munich, which is not far away from the city centre of Munich. If Munich had done it the "Berlin way" (Spandau, Falkensee etc.), it would be part of Munich since decades.

Example 2:

Berlin: 3,45 Mio. inhabitants.
Cologne: 1 Mio. inhabitants.

Großraum Berlin: 4,5 Mio. inhabitants.
Großraum Cologne: 3,5 Mio. inhabitants.

So, 1 --> 3,5 but only 3,45 --> 4,5.

Most of the agglomeration of Berlin is part of the city of Berlin, but only an area of 1 Mio. inhabtiants of the agglomeration of Cologne is part of the city of Cologne.

Example 3:

In the case of comparing city boundaries, Berlin would be bigger than Paris. Everyone, who knows both agglomerations, knows that such a statement makes no sense.

It's obvious that administrative boundaries can't be compared. They differ from case to case.



flierfy said:


> In which regard?


The size of the S-Bahn network.


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## hoosier (Apr 11, 2007)

Both Berlin and Munich have EXCELLENT rail transit systems, among the best in Europe for sure. Residents there should be very proud to have the option to get around without a car. All that Berlin and Munich need now are better HSR connections to the rest of Germany and Europe, but that is more of a federal government issue.


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

With the decission of the new S-Bahn cross rail the extention of the U5 to Pasing will go ahead.

The extension will feature 3 stations and will be 3,6 km long.










It is most likely that the station will be situated parallel to the existing S-Bahn station in Pasing as illustrated below.


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

Munich's subway administration (SWM / MVG) orders 21 new trainsets (Typ C2.11) for 185 million Eur (8.8 million € per trainset). 

It is planned to order another 46 trainsets until 2018. Altogether 550 Million € will be invested for 67 trainsets. Trains will mainly replace the typ A (A-Wagen) which will be more than 40 years old in 2018. Furthermore they will increase frequency on U3/U6 Stammstrecketo 2 minutes (now 2.5 minutes) and U2 Nord to 2.5 minutes (now 5 minutes).




> Die größte Fahrzeugbestellung in der Geschichte der Münchner U-Bahn ist fix: Die Stadtwerke München (SWM) ordern zunächst 21 sechsteilige Gliederzüge (= 126 Wagen) für das U-Bahnnetz der Münchner Verkehrsgesellschaft (MVG). Das Investitionsvolumen liegt bei ca. 185 Millionen Euro (inkl. anderweitig beschaffter Ausrüstungsteile wie z. B. Bildschirme für das Fahrgast-TV). Weitere bis zu 46 Züge (= 276 Wagen) sind in zwei Optionen mit jeweils bis zu 23 Einheiten vorgesehen, die bis 2016 bzw. 2020 in Festbestellungen umgewandelt werden können. Das Gesamtvolumen (Festbestellung + 2 Optionen) liegt bei bis zu 550 Millionen Euro.
> 
> (...)
> 
> ...


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

Looks nice. The front is an improvement to the great C stock.


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

Nice but with 8.8 million € each expensive. I wonder how much trainsets are running in unwealthy cities e.g. Algier, Cairo or any Chinese city.


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

As long as they can reach a decent intervall (which 2 minutes definitely is), why complain about the number?
Munich's pt has fares expensive enough to pay for a bit more extravagant trains (that said, the C stock is probably the poshiest metro stock out there already).


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

Looks quite similar to the Class C stock but even they were some of the best looking (both from outside and, very importantly, INSIDE) metro trains I have ever seen. I guess these are going to be even better. When can we expect the delivery of the first new trains?


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

^^

By the year 2013 the first 21 trainsets will be set into service.


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## hhouse (Sep 29, 2009)

At the weekend the new U3-West extension has been inaugurated (two new stations):

*Moosacher St. Martinsplatz*


















*Moosach* (interchange with S-Bahn line 1)



















Picture Source:
www.wikimedia.org

More pictures you can find here:
http://www.muenchnerubahn.de/blog/2010/12/die-u3-fahrt-jetzt-nach-moosach/ (incl. station description in german)
http://picasaweb.google.com/wawimuc/U3NachMoosach

I really like the new stations :master:


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## Falubaz (Nov 20, 2004)

Yep. the new Munich stations are one of the best in the world - in my opinion.
Pitty they all are not in the center but in far suburbs.


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

I think they look quite dull and boring. Even the art inside can't change that. No clue how you can count these amongst the "best in the world". I've seen factories that are better looking.


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## godetto (Aug 31, 2009)

So, what are the next expansions of the network?
Did the work on the route Laimer Platz - Pasing begin or not?
And what about the eastern extension of U4 from Arabellapark to S8?


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## hhouse (Sep 29, 2009)

godetto said:


> So, what are the next expansions of the network?
> Did the work on the route Laimer Platz - Pasing begin or not?
> And what about the eastern extension of U4 from Arabellapark to S8?


The next extension will be the U6-West extension (one station to Martinsried). This was decided by the Kreistag in July 2009, but the works didn't started yet. It should be operational 2014 or 2015.

The other projects are still in the planning phase. The next big infrastructure project in Munich is what I know the 2nd suburban line tunnel ("2. S-Bahn Stammstrecke"). Works on this project should start mid 2011 and planned opening date is 2018.


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## Alargule (Feb 21, 2005)

Nice stations; another good addition to the network in both architecture and connections to the S-Bahn.


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## godetto (Aug 31, 2009)

hhouse said:


> The next big infrastructure project in Munich is what I know the 2nd suburban line tunnel ("2. S-Bahn Stammstrecke"). Works on this project should start mid 2011 and planned opening date is 2018.


Wow! What's that?


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## Avalanix (Aug 5, 2007)

This really reminds me of what a gravitational tunnel has to look like.


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## brick84 (Aug 17, 2007)

I love this subway :cheers:


*OEZ Subway Station*




























http://farm4.static.flickr.com


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## brick84 (Aug 17, 2007)

*Stachus station*









www.visualphotos.com









http://static2.davidkennardphotography.com









www.siemens.com









www.compoundsemiconductor.net


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## SparksTO (Aug 12, 2012)

Beautiful.


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## Scrapernab2 (Sep 24, 2010)

Any latest news on the start of the new S-bahn line? Supposed to start in 2014, but I wonder if any 'pre' work is happening.


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## Falubaz (Nov 20, 2004)

^^ New line? Munich didnt plan to build a new one. Only extention of line U5 to Pasing or U4 To Englschalking as far as i know.


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

Maybe you mean the new S-Bahn line through city centre?


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## Scrapernab2 (Sep 24, 2010)

Yes, the plan for the new S-bahn through the city center. It is described in the posts from 2007, 2010 and 2011:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=16640408&postcount=15

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=68834503&postcount=99

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=75702917&postcount=106

The last time I was in the Munich Hauptbahnhof it was under major demolition. That was July last summer.


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## Scrapernab2 (Sep 24, 2010)

The schedule 

A first building permit for the second Rapid Transit route is available to the planning decision for the Part 2 (the center of Munich between main train station and Isar). Preparatory construction work on the Marienhof behind the Munich city hall took place 2011/2012. 
The approval process for the other two zoning sections are not yet complete. (Prior approval process see: planning procedures ) 

On the basis of the construction and financing agreement , the German railway requested in September 2011 at the Federal Railway Office inclusion of the project in the category A of GVFG federal program as a condition for financial support from the federal government. *Once the building permits and financing commitment from the federal can begin the main construction works*. 



Project schedule 
Project schedule in the timeline


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

In the meantime the old tunnel is getting renovated another time. As well as the upper subterranean level of Munich main station.


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## Scrapernab2 (Sep 24, 2010)

I would love to see some pictures, or is there a webcam link?


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## Autostädter (Nov 29, 2009)

moved


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## FabriFlorence (Sep 29, 2004)

Stachus station is simply amazing! I've read that the complex between Kalplatz and the main station is the biggest underground shopping centre in Europe!


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

They claim that the whole complex (including the stations) is the largest underground complex in Europe, not only shopping centre.


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## muc (Sep 29, 2005)

The pictures don't really show the horrible state of the floor. It's full of cracks and discoloration and always looks dirty. Also there are several corners that still look unfinished - years after the renovation.
Other than that the renovation impoved the Stachus a lot aesthetically. But I think it still doesn't feel like a place where you'd like to spend a lot of time for shopping.

I think they did a better job with the renovation of the (much smaller) Münchner Freiheit underground complex.


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## Shenkey (Mar 19, 2009)

marienplatz, HBF stations are still totaly destroyed. Now even Sbahn in not operating in the tunnel some days of the week. Tested it on Sunday.

Its quite a mess, lets hope it will look nice when finished.


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

"Destroyed" is a weird verb to describe scheduled service stops in order to renovate the tunnel.


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

Beacause of rebuilding the Station Donnersberger Brücke there is no regular service on several weekends this year. Out and inbound trains mainly start and stop respectively at Pasing, Hauptbahnhof or Ostbahnhof. S8 to the airport is rerouted via Südring. There is a 20 minute service between Hackerbrücke and Pasing. Shuttle trains run every 10 minutes between Hackerbrücke and Ostbahnhof.


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## Scrapernab2 (Sep 24, 2010)

Are there any updates, or pictures of the current HBF - Marienplatz stations? What is the scheduled completion date? I will be travelling to Munich in late February and I want to be aware to avoid construction delays.

I did find this small amount of information on the new line:

The construction of a second S-Bahn route (a second main tunnel route through the centre of Munich) with a new S-Bahn station is being planned for the station hall. Because of challenges with the planning and financing of the route, it will probably not be finished until 2020.

A new front for the railway station and service hall are to be built to a design by Auer+Weber+Assoziierte. Because of difficulties in financing, it is questionable when the project will be started.[


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

^^
They did stop services on the S-Bahn tunnel on a few weekends for renovations and will cut services during night on some weekends over the coming months (the construction update sheet it in German but you should be able to understand the most important information). Apparently there are no bus replacement services but you can still use the U-Bahn or night busses.

U-Bahn services afaik aren't affected, the renovations cause some inconvenients in the stations (especially in Hauptbahnhof (some closed exits or shops and alike)) but nothing to worry about.


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

*U9*

The U9-project takes another step. Next Tuesday the project will be introduced officially by the Munich transit authority (MVG).

The U9 will provide a new crossing of the inner city in direction north-south and is along with the second suburban rail tunnel crossing the city from east to west a major project in the recently strong growing city of Munich (1,5 % to 1,8 % p.a. population growth).


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

What are chances of them reiving the airport maglev? Or building anything other than slow S-Bahn current service to link MUC?


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## Falubaz (Nov 20, 2004)

U9? That's really THE news!
As for the map above, the route is just a draft, with onlu transfer stations shown, right?
There will be more stations?


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

Suburbanist said:


> What are chances of them reiving the airport maglev? Or building anything other than slow S-Bahn current service to link MUC?


Maglev project? It's dead since almost a decade! After the 2nd S-Bahn tunnel is completed there may be a chance to get a faster airport link. But not only the city crossrail is limiting capacity also tracks at S1 and S8 need to be extended. In the east the city wants a long tunnel for the S8 to gain building space. This tunnel will be costly so there will be little progress until the next years.


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

Falubaz said:


> U9? That's really THE news!
> As for the map above, the route is just a draft, with onlu transfer stations shown, right?
> There will be more stations?


Yes, i guess there will be more stations. I could imagine "Pinakotheken / TU" and somewhere near Elisabethplatz in the north. South of Hauptbahnhof there will be a new station somewhere around Theresienwiese.


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## Falubaz (Nov 20, 2004)

But is it just a 'dream' or the U9 will be built?


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

One main Problem in Munich is the so called 'Stammstreckenkonzept'. So along with the suburban rail also each two subway lines converge into one tunnel crossing the city center. U2 and u6 plus the u3 north are running at their capacity during peak. U5 has some extra capacity due to the weak u4. It is a long term task to provide each line its single tunnel through the center. Since northbound u3 and u6 are the most crowded lines it is obvious to start here. Most likely u3 will remain running via Marienplatz while u6 will connect Hauptbahnhof with Allianz Arena and TU Arcisstraße with Garching.


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## Falubaz (Nov 20, 2004)

What about the U5 to Pasing?


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

^^
Never ending discussion. If you consider the crowds entering the S-Bahn in Pasing the U5 extension is worth to build anyway. But politicans always tried to combine the decision building the U5 with the 2nd S-Bahn city cross rail. Technically a complete BS because the 2nd cross rail will be build in order to give a better service for the suburbs and an express link through the city center. BTW, the U5 should not end in Pasing but in Freiham a new quarter for 25.000 people in the west and providing stations at the denser quarters in Westkreuz and Neuaubing.


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## Falubaz (Nov 20, 2004)

Ok thanks, i just was wondering because there was a lot of talk about the 2nd S-Bshn tunnel for years and now the new U9 popped out. But it looks, the new tunnel will be built first... if ever


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

2nd Sbahn city crossrail and U9 are somehow quite independent projects sinc3 the Sbahn is run by Deutsche Bahn and the state of Bavaria orders the service and the Ubahn is run by Stadtwerke controlled by the city council. Today i am quite optimistic that both tunnels will be built and at least the U1 via Goetheplatz to Candidplatz is discussed.


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## Falubaz (Nov 20, 2004)

> U1 via Goetheplatz to Candidplatz


In that case would be the tunnel between Candidnpl. und Kolumbuspl. not used any more? Or maybe still, only for some lines like U7?


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

^^

The separation of U1 and U2 is still a project far in the future. Maybe the bypass will be via Kolumbusplatz - really no clue.


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## metr0p0litain (Aug 16, 2012)

The Münchner Verkehrsgesellschaft (Munich transport corporation) presented their plans for a new underground line "U9" between Implerstraße and Münchner Freiheit:










At Implerstraße the new underground line branches off and runs with stops at Theresienwiese (maybe with a new station under the fairground of Oktoberfest or an expanded four-track station of the exisiting station U4/U5), Hauptbahnhof (with a new station under the tracks of regional- and international trains), Pinakotheken (connection to exisiting tram lines 27/28) and forwards to Giselastraße, which will be extended to a four-track station. Also the tunnels between Giselastraße and Münchner Freiheit will be extended to four tracks.

There are also several ideas for new connecting lines (U10, U11 or U12):

Example 1:









Example 2:









http://www.mvg-mobil.de/presse/2014-02-11_mvg-pressemeldung.pdf


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

I would like to see a station somewhere around Nordendstraße / Elisabethplatz. Plus the widening of the station Theresienwiese will be almost impossible. It would be better to see a stop in the south-west corner of Theresienwiese. This would connect new quarters to the U-Bahn plus would balance the Oktoberfest (today the north dominates). 

The concept of many many lines is very misleading (U10, 11, 12... WTF?). I would prefer a line each tunnel. So U6 should run through the new tunnel via Hauptbahnhof while the U3 remains on the old tracks via Odeonsplatz and Marienplatz.


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

Published today:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/.../muenchen-to-double-transport-investment.html
> 
> *München to double transport investment*
> 18 Feb 2014
> ...


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

The new C2 trainset will be very similar to the older C1 train. At least regarding the design.


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Global Rail News:



> http://www.globalrailnews.com/2014/02/21/c2-metro-arrives-in-munich/
> 
> *C2 metro arrives in Munich*
> 21 FEB, 2014
> ...


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## metr0p0litain (Aug 16, 2012)

On the 12th November 2010 the Munich transport corporation announced the order of 21 hexamerous metro trains by Siemens. The so called C2.11-trains are based on the platform "Inspiro" of Siemens metro trains. The C2.11 is 114,80 m long, 2,90 m wide and contains a capacity for up to 940 passengers. Maximum speed is limited to 80 km/h, but 90 km/h are technically possible. The presentation of the first C2-train was celebrated on the 21st February 2014 at the station Georg-Brauchle-Ring:


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## hugodiekonig (May 19, 2009)

Station at "Münchner Freiheit" serving new tram-line number 23 in Munich.










Photo seen at Germany Art & Architecture


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## CosmoFuture (Aug 28, 2014)

*New C2-Type U-Bahn*


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## CosmoFuture (Aug 28, 2014)

*New C2-Type U-Bahn - Part 2*


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## Ramino (Mar 26, 2014)

^^ Any idea when the C2s will be in service?


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## metr0p0litain (Aug 16, 2012)

Ramino said:


> ^^ Any idea when the C2s will be in service?


After solving different problems with the doors Siemens said that C2 trains will be in service in the next few weeks. So, I think the trains will be ready for service till the end of this year.


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## ainvan (Nov 15, 2006)

Wow, I've fallen in love with München's public transit!


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## metr0p0litain (Aug 16, 2012)

Today the first of eight Siemens Avenio trams entered passenger service on line 19 between Pasing Bahnhof and St.-Veit-Straße:


Avenio 2807 St.-Veit-Straße by Tramgeschichten, on Flickr


Avenio 2807 Stachus by Tramgeschichten, on Flickr


Avenio 2807 Ostbahnhof by Tramgeschichten, on Flickr


Avenio 2807 Innenanzeige by Tramgeschichten, on Flickr


Avenio 2807 Innenraum by Tramgeschichten, on Flickr


Avenio 2807 Fürstenrieder Straße by Tramgeschichten, on Flickr


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

Also i like the Design of the Variotram more this new trains are so essential for the network. I still can not believe why they do not introduce 60m+ trains on the heavily used lines (17/27/20). Or if they do not want to extend the platforms buy simply more Avenios to decrease service interval.


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## metr0p0litain (Aug 16, 2012)

Isek said:


> Also i like the Design of the Variotram more this new trains are so essential for the network. I still can not believe why they do not introduce 60m+ trains on the heavily used lines (17/27/20). Or if they do not want to extend the platforms buy simply more Avenios to decrease service interval.


The capacity on lines 20 and 21 will be increased step by step. There is an ongoing tender for new trams which can run coupled together. This will look like you can see in this visualisation:


Visualisierung der MVG-Trambahn-Neubeschaffung am Beispiel des Avenio by Tramgeschichten, on Flickr


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## nanar (Apr 12, 2005)

The real lenght of Avenio "two stucks" is more or less 18 meters, not 16 (as writen under the picture)


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

I would rather like to see 2×27m. For what this 16m boxes should be used when uncoupled?


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## nanar (Apr 12, 2005)

The 16 (or 18 m) "box" could be a motorized (and eventually driverless) trailer serving just during pic hours,
and may be there is no place for 54 m trains in some stations.


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

They could extend stations to serve 27x27m trains. Especially on the relationship between Sendlinger Tor and the northbound lines 17 and 20. A motorized trailer seems to be not reasonable!


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## nanar (Apr 12, 2005)

Isek said:


> They could extend stations to serve 27x27m trains. Especially on the relationship between Sendlinger Tor and the northbound lines 17 and 20.


May be, it could be difficult to extend some platforms, due to stairs or curves ?
here ? https://maps.google.fr/maps/ms?msid...&ll=48.147074,11.558815&spn=0.000485,0.001308




> A motorized trailer seems to be not reasonable!


But exists : https://www.google.fr/search?q=tram...KNOVaticgfAL&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAg&biw=1280&bih=603


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

Some of my videos of the Munich Transport network. 

First - the S-bahn. This is an excellent system and I love the rolling stock in use too. 

At the airport here with the S8 pulling in. 







Marienplatz having arrived form the airport on the S8. 







Karlsplatz Station showing the frequency of the S-bahn.


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

More Munich public transport - the fantastic, clean, efficient and artistic U-bahn.

Going to the U-bahn (U4/U5) at Karlsplatz







U-bahn arriving at Karlsplatz







Walking to U1/U2 platforms at Hauptbahnhof. 







Transferring from the U1/U2 to U4/U5 at Hauptbahnhof







Transferring from the U-bahn to S-bahn at Karlsplatz


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

Trams in Munich are very efficient and a great addition to the transport network of the city. Here are a few shots of various tram stops in the city. 

At Hauptbahnhof







At Rotkreuzplatz (Tram 12).


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

Now just a couple of views of very key stations in Munich.

Karlsplatz - this looks FANTASTIC. There is no other word for it. I wish stations looked this good in Stockholm.







A massive tour of Hauptbahnhof showing all the renovations of the station.


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

A few pictures of public transport in Munich. 

At Munich Airport walking towards the S-bahn. 



At the S-bahn station at the Airport. 



Interior of S-bahn rolling stock. 



Entrance to Karlsplatz Station complex. 



Interior of Karlsplatz. This looks really, really good. 





The U-bahn platforms at Karlsplatz. 



More to come later.


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## tunnel owl (May 19, 2013)

Svartmetall said:


> Now just a couple of views of very key stations in Munich.
> 
> Karlsplatz - this looks FANTASTIC. There is no other word for it. I wish stations looked this good in Stockholm.


Are you serious? Of cause Karlsplatz is nice. But Stockholm is a city with the most outstanding underground architecture worldwide, besides Montreal, Moscow and some others.


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## brick84 (Aug 17, 2007)

Amazing subway, amazing videos and pics!

:cheers:


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

Update on 2nd cross-city tunnel - huge crane has been installed at the site of the future Marienhof station:


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

Update on Munich Central station reconstruction:


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

With costs of about 4 billion Euros quite a large project. Though it gets very little attention. 

At Hauptbahnhof there will be an aditional amount of 500 million Euros spent to build parts of the proposed subway line U9. The structure subsoil will be quite extreme for European scales.


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

Munich city council decided for 3 new subway lines and 7 new tram/lightrail lines to be realized in the coming 10 to 15 years.

Subway: 

Line U9 from Implerstraße to Münchner Freiheit via Central Station
Extension line U5 from Pasing to Freiham (new city extension ~30.000)
Extension line U4 to the east (new city extension >30.000)
Tram/lightrail:

Project Y-North (Central station via Schleißheimer Straße to "Am Hart" and new city extension SEM Feldmoching)
Ramersdorf - Neuperlach
South Tangent Ostbahnhof - Waldfriedhof
Line Wasserburger Landstraße
Line to Parkstadt Solln
Extension of line 19 Berg am Laim to Daglfing
Extension of line 17 Amalienburgstraße to Freiham (new city extension, see subway as well)

Motivation: Modal split should rise from todays 24 % to 30 % by the year 2030.


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## Shenkey (Mar 19, 2009)

Munich should also focus on bike lanes. They could take a big share of trips.


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## Frenchlover (Sep 3, 2020)

Isek said:


> Munich city council decided for 3 new subway lines and 7 new tram/lightrail lines to be realized in the coming 10 to 15 years.
> 
> Subway:
> 
> ...


Any map of these projects ?


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

Frenchlover said:


> Any map of these projects ?


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

airport rail tunnel:









Munich Airport rail tunnel extension completed on schedule - Passenger Terminal Today


Munich Airport in Germany has completed the extension of its rail tunnel providing a better connection with southern and eastern Bavaria as well as the Salzburg region. Ending at the Terminal 2 satellite building, the €115m (US$135m) tunnel was extended eastward to enable trains and S-Bahn light...




www.passengerterminaltoday.com


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

S-Bahn = light rail? That's actually very new to me. I guess that's a mistake


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