# PARIS | Notre-Dame Cathedral Reconstruction | U/C



## Mainyehc

The rebuilding of the damaged sections of the historical cathedral (1163-1345) in the center of Paris, including the reconstructed – and now completely destroyed – 300 ft. spire (1844-1864) overseen by Eugène Viollet-le-Duc, was announced by French President Emmanuel Macron on a speech this evening, while firefighters were still dealing with the ongoing disaster which struck the building on April 15th, 2019.

(Source: Bloomberg: French President Vows to Rebuild Notre Dame After Horrific Fire)

Here are some photos of the current status of the building:








(PHILIPPE WOJAZER / REUTERS)








(PHILIPPE WOJAZER / REUTERS)








(PHILIPPE WOJAZER / REUTERS)








(PHILIPPE WOJAZER / REUTERS)


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1117912792298745856

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1117915983233081345
(Source: Huffington Post France: Notre-Dame de Paris: les images de l'intérieur de la cathédrale après l'incendie [in French])


As you can observe, the interiors survived relatively unscathed, save for the gaping holes in the stone vaults, where the spire stood and on the areas over which the latter's fragments fell in dramatic fashion. Regarding the status of the famed original stained glass windows, it is still too early to tell the extent of the heat damage inflicted upon them due to the poor lighting conditions.

As of now, no specific reconstruction projects were advanced, but João Pinharanda, the Portuguese Embassy culture attache, claims there will be a heated debate starting ASAP over which approach – historically accurate vs. modern – will be picked, with the former being, in his opinion, the most likely. (Source: Público: Reconstrução da catedral de Notre-Dame irá abrir “uma grande polémica” [in Portuguese])


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## Hudson11

Quick on the draw there! Gonna move this to the general developments section for now. 
Who knows if they will even rebuild the spire at this point, though obviously we all hope to see it rise over the Seine again. Fortunately emergency responders were able to keep the bell towers from suffering the same fate as the spire. 
Right now they have to focus on determining the safety of the remaining structure and if it could be sustained in a rebuild. Then they can plan around that. Hopefully, in the end, they can get it as close as humanly possible to what it was before the fire. It does look as though the damage isn't as bad as it looked like it was going to be, we'll see what tomorrow brings.


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## Manitopiaaa

"historically accurate vs. modern"

What does modern mean? I hope they build it in the same fashion as it was originally built.


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## Mainyehc

Hudson11 said:


> Quick on the draw there! Gonna move this to the general developments section for now.
> Who knows if they will even rebuild the spire at this point, though obviously we all hope to see it rise over the Seine again. Fortunately emergency responders were able to keep the bell towers from suffering the same fate as the spire.
> Right now they have to focus on determining the safety of the remaining structure and if it could be sustained in a rebuild. Then they can plan around that. Hopefully, in the end, they can get it as close as humanly possible to what it was before the fire. It does look as though the damage isn't as bad as it looked like it was going to be, we'll see what tomorrow brings.


Yeah, indeed. I was transfixed at this and even suggested creating a thread right away, as its reconstruction, whatever form it takes, will indeed be a reality. I don't think Macron would dupe his own people into a national subscription if there was no chance to get the building into at least a stable state.

As for moving it to the General Urban Developments, sure, it's a good call. There's a bit of an ambiguity in the SSC sub-forums, in the sense that 100 metres do not correspond exactly to 300 feet; in fact, 300 feet is closer to 90 metres, which means the Notre-Dame, once rebuilt, would qualify as a high rise when measured in feet, but not in metres. Hence, I wrote its height in feet only, despite it being a French building (and those guys actually invented the metre, heh), admittedly to exploit said ambiguity/loophole, because I felt that it was a building worthy of being in that category. In any case, it's going to be in great company, along with one which I've been following closely, the Basilica of La Sagrada Familia in Barcelona, even if it's not on the same sub-forum.

Well, as for the building's structural integrity, from what I know about architecture and old, fire- and earthquake-damaged buildings, it actually looks to be in pretty good shape. You should see S. Domingos church in Lisbon, it looks positively fragile and derelict by comparison (the original ceiling was replaced by this pink marbled stucco vault thing, and the walls and columns are completely cracked from the heat damage). As for the See-Cathedral, which survived the great earthquake of 1755, one of its columns is actually visibly offset, by a few inches, at its base, and hey, it's still holding up pretty well (the original lantern tower, much taller than the current one, also fell, possibly on top of the vaults as well, and you can't really tell exactly where).

If I had to guess, Notre-Dame's vaults can and will be rebuilt in a jiffy, as will the ceiling, and if they hold on their own, so will the new spire. If Viollet-le-Duc did it in the mid 1800s, so can we now.

The only thing that's really keeping me on the edge of my seat are the stained-glass windows. Those are the hardest to restore in a convincing fashion, and probably the most fragile part of all of the decoration (besides the frescoes, I guess). Judging from the shots of the apse I just saw on live tv right now, which windows seemed to be all busted up, I have a really bad feeling about those.


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## 3tmk

I would suppose the falling spire caused more damage to the interior than the fire (obviously the fire caused the spire to collapse in the first place). This wasn't some poorly-build hut. The masters of old and the many restorations that have maintained the structure of the centuries did a great job in building a solid structure. As did the brave firefighters that worked to to save the monument. And I am certain that the reconstruction will be masterfully done as well. They will give it a shiny metal new roof. With blackjack. And Hooks on which to hang fire extinguishers.


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## Mainyehc

Manitopiaaa said:


> "historically accurate vs. modern"
> 
> What does modern mean? I hope they build it in the same fashion as it was originally built.


So do I, but that was an actual, accurate quote. The guy has been in France for a while now and wouldn't get nominated as culture attache if he was a complete ignorant about their culture.

But yeah, regardless of our or their opinion, Notre-Dame is a symbol of Paris and a UNESCO World Heritage site; I'm guessing any rebuilding work would have to adhere to standards not unlike those of a conventional restoration in order for it to still qualify as such. So… historically accurate it is, then.


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## Mainyehc

3tmk said:


> I would suppose the falling spire caused more damage to the interior than the fire (obviously the fire caused the spire to collapse in the first place). This wasn't some poorly-build hut. The masters of old and the many restorations that have maintained the structure of the centuries did a great job in building a solid structure. As did the brave firefighters that worked to to save the monument. And I am certain that the reconstruction will be masterfully done as well. They will give it a shiny metal new roof. With blackjack. And Hooks on which to hang fire extinguishers.


When it comes to the damage done to the vault, it does indeed seem to be the case. This thing was indeed built to last, and the only reason it got damaged in the first place, I'm betting, is the fact that it's one of the first Gothic cathedrals instead of a Romanic one. The latter are built like tanks in comparison (the one in Lisbon being one of those, which – along with the favourable bedrock, sure – probably explains how it survived one of the greatest earthquakes on record).

And as for the safety systems, well… I've seen some footage from last fall, and they did have fire extinguishers inside of “the forest”. It's just that it was made of really, really old (as in almost 1000-year-old) wood, probably untreated (or treated as much as physically possible in such a confined environment).

If they do rebuild it in wood, well… I don't know much about blackjack specifically, but I'm aware that oak in general is very fire-resistant. If it's properly treated I'm sure they can come up with a very fire-resistant, modern roof, and still stay true to the original. But if they did a similar structure out of a different material – like, say, GFRP beams or some other exotic new concoction –, that wouldn't offend me that much either. I'm also guessing they'll be eschewing those lead plates for something, err, a bit less toxic.


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## Axelferis

an architect just said if they follow the traditional rules of "Monuments historiques" organism it will take 15-20 years to rebuild.
If they break the traditional rules-it means political administration changement- it could to take only...3 years!


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## Mainyehc

Axelferis said:


> an architect just said if they follow the traditional rules of "Monuments historiques" organism it will take 15-20 years to rebuild.
> If they break the traditional rules-it means political administration changement- it could to take only...3 years!


Interesting… Is that a combination of prior procedures (as in, probing, studies, etc.) and building codes (safety checks during construction – which seem to have failed miserably during this botched renovation –, etc.)?

Also: 3 years sounds crazy. For the roof, the spire, and the restoration (as best as possible) of all the lost art, including stained glass windows? Nah, can't be. Maybe the roof, so the church can go back to regular use as a place of worship and a tourist attraction (kind of like La Sagrada Familia, yes, which is already open and consecrated even before being finished), but the rest? I don't believe it. Not even by cutting corners. Besides, what about cleanup? This isn't exactly the WTC right after 9/11, but it's a building that must be preserved at all costs and that process alone will take months.

But anyway, if you can back that up with a media source, by all means do (even if it's in a language other than English; some info is better than no info, even if you have to translate it automatically). That's why we're here, to stay on top of things.


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## Pohtija

Quite a tragedy.. :sad2: Hope they can rebuild it.


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## germantower

A german news site says that the cathedral still COULD collapse. Idk if this is true or not. The news site claims that authorities arent sure if what is left of Notre Dame is intact enough to stand.


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## Roman_P

Pohtija said:


> Quite a tragedy..


 Undoubtedly.
But the bright side is that the damage seems to be less than expected. During the fire the media were spreading info like "the cathedral is lost completely", "nothing has survived" and so on.


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## Neric007

Axelferis said:


> an architect just said if they follow the traditional rules of "Monuments historiques" organism it will take 15-20 years to rebuild.
> If they break the traditional rules-it means political administration changement- it could to take only...3 years!



Well they manage to build supertall skyscrapers in less than that these days. So I assume moneywise it's possible. Maybe the lack of know-how and skilled workers would be an issue then but for sure I actually don't see why it would take more than 10 years to build a roof and a spire while working on the stained-glass windows at the same time. It took 20ish years in the 19th to restore the building so I hope we can go faster with modern technology.

It would actually be a nice symbol for France and Paris tif we could restore it that quickly.


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## germantower

^^ I saw reports that tge windows werent damaged much, only a rose window.


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## Turgeman

germantower said:


> *A german news site* says that the cathedral still COULD collapse. Idk if this is true or not. The news site claims that authorities arent sure if what is left of Notre Dame is intact enough to stand.


Which one?


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## Mainyehc

germantower said:


> I saw reports that tge windows werent damaged much, only a rose window.


You are, indeed, correct. One of the rose windows has, indeed, moved, and may be dismantled to prevent it from falling (which is not as good as being unscathed but is much better than being lost; in due time it will be fixed and reinstalled). As for the other two, they are apparently intact, and only some 19th century windows were lost, it seems. Still sad, as is the loss of the spire, but we can take some solace in the fact that most of the oldest treasures survived.

Oh, by the way, the older church organ survived without any water or fire damage, it’s only covered in soot. So also great news.

As for the structure, I’m telling you, the authorities are just being cautious. A fireman got seriously injured, and many more risked their lives to save the towers. It’s completely understandable, but I seriously doubt they will tear anything down; once the structure is given time to cool down, protective scaffolding will be erected and cleaning up will begin in earnest. It survived becoming derelict before, and it will survive again.

Anyway, check out the pictures, it’s looking pretty decent considering the raging inferno of yesterday:

https://www.huffingtonpost.fr/entry/notre-dame-vitraux-rosaces-incendie_fr_5cb58dece4b082aab08b55e0


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## Jex7844

Pohtija said:


> Quite a tragedy.. :sad2: Hope they can rebuild it.


We will, no doubt about it, but it won't be quite the same...


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## Aster de Gatîne

Several large French families or large groups made donations for the reconstruction
The families Pinault(Kering), Arnault(LVMH) and Bettencourt (L'Oréal) have unlocked alone half a billion euros. The Total group also donated 100 million.


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## Jex7844

Indeed...








[/url]20190416_172333 by jexbj, sur Flickr[/IMG]

Bouygues donated 10M also.

It does not include many pools whose success already is very important...such as: https://www.fondation-patrimoine.org (*currently 690 055€*)


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## Streetlife1

Axelferis said:


> an architect just said if they follow the traditional rules of "Monuments historiques" organism it will take 15-20 years to rebuild


Take 15 years then and do a proper job and not a half arsed one. Make the building fire proof in the process and better.


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## Axelferis

Replace wood by concrete. It could bea safe option.
And what about 3D print technics? 
It will be a good ccasion to make it


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## Streetlife1

Hopefully this cheers you guys up a little. The stone mason who repaired York minister after a fire has said it can be repaired.


*"I have no doubt that it’s all repairable and I think a lot of the people watching think it won’t be repairable but we know it can be done.Hopefully, from my point of view, they will use traditional materials.There will be damage to the stone, but that’s always repairable, getting the amount of wood that they might need will be quite difficult, I think.And there will be some people who suggest they build a steel roof or a concrete roof.We had all this here in 1984 but these buildings deserve to be repaired by craftsmen so hopefully that will happen."*


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## Manitopiaaa

If they Pompidue this thing, I'll riot









https://twitter.com/bryceelder?lang=en


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## Twopsy

They should not use any oak trees in the roof structure again. There must be some modern materials which do not burn at all. 

The most famous church tower of Hamburg burned down in World War I. When it was rebuilt, they used steel instead of would. That does not change the outside appearance. If steel had been available in the 13th century, they would have used it for their cathedrals.


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## Knitemplar

They need to get it done for 2023 so that the test events for Taekwondo can be conducted there. It can then host Taekwondo for 2024 before it reverts to being a house of worship. :wink2:


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## erdnisloed

.
DESTROYED :
13-19th c. wood framework ? (charpente in French), 19th. c roof and spire
19th c. white stained glasses of the small roses (rosaces in French) in the triangular upper parts of both transepts gables ? (pignons in French)
The entire vault (but not its 4 angles (écoinçons in French) and not the 4 big pilars and 4 big arches) of the transept cross...
Due to the fall of the spire in 2 parts, 3 triangular parts of the sexpartites vaults (vault compartment ? voutain in French) : 1 in the North transept, far enough from its wood doors (portes-tambours in French) and 2 contiguous ones with their separative arch perpendicular to the nave (arc doubleau in French) in the last 2 vaults of the nave near the transept cross. These parts must be consolidated with scaffoldings immediately to prevent new falls, but since all the ogives are intact it should not fall. The very important scaffoldings structure, still quasi-intact..., rising mainly from the ground retained the spire notably on the nave side and prevented more damages to the vaults.
The debris of stones and timbers in flames only put fire in the interior to chairs at the East end of the nave and in the concerned transept which were stopped by the firemen from the interior with a robot then manually (search the robot video), and manually as well the start of fire in the wood belfry of the North tower holding some bells but not the biggest (in the South tower) between 21:15 ? and 21:50. But it reached the base of the wooden structure of the belfry and of the upper large windows only at 21:50 and was stopped there in only 2 or 3 mn... with very few damages on the wood (the 2 fire lights were not larger than about 1 m wide each) as I witnessed them from Centre Pompidou's 6th floor terrace.
Perhaps ? a part of the roof of the most South West chapel of the apse near the South transept.

DAMAGED :
Damaged by smoke and water (can be repaired) : the 18th c. wood "stalles" (wood choir ?) at about 5 m... of the fire of rubbles fallen on the floor of the transept cross : the western lateral pannels (non sculpted) and lower balustrades ? (garde-corps in French) are perhaps damaged but the 2 superior western baldachins (dais in French) holding angels are black apparently only because they were… dirty before ! On the other hand, the wood floor and consequently the farther sculpted vertical pannels with 16 medallions have not burned fortunately.
Not damaged, despite the heat at its 2 western ends : the medieval stone "clôture" (chancel ?) surrounding the choir just behind the intact and higher wood choir pannels. The eastern part (only stone) of the chancel, behind the altar and Louis XIII's wow, is more surely intact. 
Damaged by dust only (can be repaired) : large organ
Damaged by water (can be repaired) : 19th c. small organ above the South wood choir (stalles).
Damaged by smoke (can be repaired) : the 2 large 17th c. paintings in the transepts by La Hyre and Guido Reni.
Damaged by fire and fall (can be repaired) : 19th rooster atop the spire.

INTACT :
All the treasure and relics since the sacristy is intact.
Intact with only smoke :
The 19th c. pulpit in the nave, the nearest from the interior fire, 
All the medieval stained glasses, including those of the apse chapels and the 3 roses, all the high windows mainly 19th c. stained glass.
The atlar's 17-18th c. sculptures including the 18th c. 3 marble ones of Louis XIII's wow and its axial cross,
All the surrounding chapels, with their sculptures and paintings including the 13 large 17th c. "Mays" paintings which were protected with fireproof (ininflammable in French) sheets and waterings, 
I had doubts for the large 17th painting above the sacristy's door in the South ambulatory. Hope I'm wrong since I know now that, just in front of it, the wood choir was watered "copiously" thanks to the easy access from the sacristy : https://www.europe1.fr/societe/excl...-preserve-rien-na-brule-rien-na-fondu-3892910 ; https://www.google.fr/search?q=est-...imgrc=7j9wbrHz8xTdtM:&vet=1&spf=1555588279081
The destructive damages to works of art (there are 50 paintings) are apparently minor, and let's hope they concern only 19th c. ones. 
.


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## Streetlife1

Twopsy said:


> They should not use any oak trees in the roof structure again. There must be some modern materials which do not burn at all.
> 
> The most famous church tower of Hamburg burned down in World War I. When it was rebuilt, they used steel instead of would. That does not change the outside appearance. If steel had been available in the 13th century, they would have used it for their cathedrals.


You could use wood but make sure it has been fire proofed with fire proof paint or foam.


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## Mainyehc

Streetlife1 said:


> You could use wood but make sure it has been fire proofed with fire proof paint or foam.


Yeah, and install a smart, automatic fire suppression system while you're at it. Replacing the exterior lead plates with a safer, less toxic material with a much higher melting point would also help greatly.

Some modern buildings, like the Atlântico Pavillion (A.K.A. Altice Arena), where the ESC'09 was hosted, also have wooden roofs, and are completely safe by any standards.


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## hseugut

Notre Dame should be the banner of the day.


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## Riley1066

Should replace the roof with solar panels.


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## fashionking

One thing I hate though is the talk about how important the cathedral is, but the French government seems to want to finish it before the Olympic games... um why? I just don't like the timing... it was too soon I feel to already discuss a completion date; like they didn't even access the damage yet? This is the thing.. do it the right way.. if it take 20 years so be it.. if not.. I would go I.M. Pei on it.. glass the roof in its same pitch and add an observation deck through it..could you imagine it lit up at night? If the roof structure itself was nothing or an unused attic.. I don't see its importance outside of its age...One thing I would also like to mention... it looks like there was an accelerant; just the sheer magnitude of it and the amount of time it burned... because a few days ago I tried to burn a few large branches... um not a lick if there wasn't fuel; the flame died immediately..that is why I am not totally convinced a little spark ignited the entire roof like that.. and I also kept adding branches continuously.. it is very hard to keep a fire as well.. and I don't think it would have kept burning if I didn't have that heat in the beginning with the fuel.. BUT I would prefer it to be done the right way!! period.. if you are going cheat it... I would go bigger.


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## El Choko

Hopefully, Notre-Dame will arise from its ashes like a phoenix


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## fidalgo

by Alexander Nerovnya @alex_nerovnya


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## 2G2R

I hope so for Notre Dame! The cathedral should be rebuilt as it was before the burning. 





Streetlife1 said:


> *"I have no doubt that it’s all repairable and I think a lot of the people watching think it won’t be repairable but we know it can be done.Hopefully, from my point of view, they will use traditional materials.There will be damage to the stone, but that’s always repairable, getting the amount of wood that they might need will be quite difficult, I think.And there will be some people who suggest they build a steel roof or a concrete roof.We had all this here in 1984 but these buildings deserve to be repaired by craftsmen so hopefully that will happen."*


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## 2G2R

Nantes cathedral burnt in 1972 for the same reason : worker faults during renovation... this kind of burnings are very common in fact... 





Neric007 said:


> Reims cathedral did burn in a similar fashion and so did the Saint Donatien basilica in Nantes when the roof burnt in less than an hour due to renovation works AS WELL. So why would it be different here with Paris ? Please tell me how you'd know for sure...


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## IThomas

Norman Foster's proposal hno:


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## Rokugatsu

I knew we're gonna get a modern, glass roof, most proposals are already going into that direction. Why? hno: 



> The washbraining of governments works very well...


Just stop. Can we get mods here? This thread is about renovation, not conspiracy theories.


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## lanadelrey

Foster's proposal looks ridiculously bad, the spire being described as "crystal glass and stainless steel" sounds like apple describing their newest iphone.

I like the Nerovnya proposal a bit more, at least it has the old spire and the roof pays respect to the original building by adding little details such as the small windows in the roof and the exposed "wood" (or metal) structure underneath. Additionally the shape of the roof is the same as the old one and not just a "shapeless" sleek blob on top of the cathedral.

Although there is absolutely no need for a modern interpretation of the roof or spire, they should just rebuild it using a less burnable metal. Looking at both proposals i feel like if you want to modernise the structure a modern glass and steel roof would look nicer than a modern interpretation of the spire.


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## fidalgo

Nouveau projet de rénovation de #notredame avec une flèche de lumière. Qu’en pensez vous ? @parisfutur


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## fidalgo

Concept Art pour #notredame vu sur Twitter. Qu’en pensez vous ? @parisfutur


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## Jex7844

^^ I don't like it at all...just awful and disrespectful to come up with this kind of stuff...

ps: I like the idea of a light beam, but I guess it's too "simple"...


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## Clery

Axelferris, this section is dedicated to general urban developments, not conspiracy theories. If you want to talk about those, I invite you to post in the skybar where you'll be all free to express yourself.

As a quick remark though, I'll just tell you that we have multiple historical example of medieval wood framework taking fire across the 20th century. It's not something which never happened. But anyway, if you want to answer me, please do so on the skybar. Thank you.


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## lanadelrey

fidalgo said:


> Concept Art pour #notredame vu sur Twitter. Qu’en pensez vous ? @parisfutur



now this one is completely ridiculous. why not just build a shopping centre Les Halles: Notre Dame or Galeries Lafayette dans Notre Dame on top of the roof, maybe UGC can utilise the inside as a cinema as well? :nuts:


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## wakka12

That norman foster proposal has got to be a joke. If they want the whole world to despise modern architecture even more than they already do then they are doing a good job of that

How can one of the worlds leading architectural firms throw up such a completely uninspired and tired design in one of the most architecturally and historically significant sites on planet earth, the art of architecture is truly dead and buried, there will never be a proposal in our time that will match what was destroyed, or anything even close to it


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## Riley1066

fidalgo said:


> Concept Art pour #notredame vu sur Twitter. Qu’en pensez vous ? @parisfutur


Fantastic ... they should start building that ASAP.


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## Yellow Fever

Clery said:


> Axelferris, this section is dedicated to general urban developments, not conspiracy theories.* If you want to talk about those, I invite you to post in the skybar where you'll be all free to express yourself.*


Don't know about other skybars but definitely not allowed in the world skybar.


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## Clery

wakka12 said:


> That norman foster proposal has got to be a joke. If they want the whole world to despise modern architecture even more than they already do then they are doing a good job of that
> 
> How can one of the worlds leading architectural firms throw up such a completely uninspired and tired design in one of the most architecturally and historically significant sites on planet earth, the art of architecture is truly dead and buried, there will never be a proposal in our time that will match what was destroyed, or anything even close to it


None of the photoshops which have been quickly drafted and immediately posted on Twitter and Facebook can be serious. Those are just people taking the opportunity of the current media attention to promote themselves, and I include Foster here.

Personally, I'm leaning towards the idea it should be rebuilt as it used to be, or maybe in changing the behind the scene materials so that it would be more robust, I don't know.

Now this being said, I don't think we should fully close the door to a project contest, as long as the architects would really take the time to carefully study the monument, its structure, its History and its soul. There are many things which needs to be taken into account, the gothic feel of the building, its spiritual dimension as a church, the relationship between the interior and the exterior. We don't know, maybe something good could come out of it.

For instance, it's true the cathedral used to be rather dark inside. Maybe there could be a proper way to take advantage of the hole caused by the spire to bring a subtile new light into the building using new stained glass. I'm thinking here about the nearby Saint-Chapelle, which has an absolutely fascinating light coming in through walls of stained glass. I'm not saying we should do the same, I'm only wondering if there wouldn't be a way to bring extra stained glass light to the interior.

And if in the end none of the new proposals would be convincing, we would at least be sure that the thing to do is really to build it back as how it used to be.


_Sainte-Chapelle stained glasses_


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## KiffKiff

Those proposals are all ridiculous. What is the next step ? A sex shop ?


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## Mainyehc

fidalgo said:


> Nouveau projet de rénovation de #notredame avec une flèche de lumière. Qu’en pensez vous ? @parisfutur


I quite like this proposal, but only as a temporary measure while the roof is being rebuilt. This approach did work great in New York in the years immediately after 9/11, and it would make total sense in Paris as well.


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## Mainyehc

Clery said:


> None of the photoshops which have been quickly drafted and immediately posted on Twitter and Facebook can be serious. Those are just people taking the opportunity of the current media attention to promote themselves, and I include Foster here.
> 
> Personally, I'm leaning towards the idea it should be rebuilt as it used to be, or maybe in changing the behind the scene materials so that it would be more robust, I don't know.
> 
> Now this being said, I don't think we should fully close the door to a project contest, as long as the architects would really take the time to carefully study the monument, its structure, its History and its soul. There are many things which needs to be taken into account, the gothic feel of the building, its spiritual dimension as a church, the relationship between the interior and the exterior. We don't know, maybe something good could come out of it.
> 
> For instance, it's true the cathedral used to be rather dark inside. Maybe there could be a proper way to take advantage of the hole caused by the spire to bring a subtile new light into the building using new stained glass. I'm thinking here about the nearby Saint-Chapelle, which has an absolutely fascinating light coming in through walls of stained glass. I'm not saying we should do the same, I'm only wondering if there wouldn't be a way to bring extra stained glass light to the interior.
> 
> And if in the end none of the new proposals would be convincing, we would at least be sure that the thing to do is really to build it back as how it used to be.


While I love the Sainte-Chapelle (in fact, the only time I've been to Paris, I passed on the Notre-Dame and only went there instead, as I had already been to Chartres and Amiens and my dad, who is an architect, assured me that it was much more spectacular; besides, the Notre-Dame had been there for more than 800 years, it wasn't as if it was going anywhere… Whoops!), and have realized, from most of the imagery I've seen of the interior of the Notre-Dame, that the latter was rather dark by comparison before the fire and now has quite a bit more of natural sunlight, those gaping holes are not only depressing but structurally unsound. Those cathedrals were conceived in a holistic, albeit modular fashion, so all the individual pieces should be there and impose the proper loads on the structure to keep it stable. If you remove pieces from an arch, it will immediately crumble, and the same will happen to the remaining pieces that still survived around those holes if they're not consolidated immediately and plugged back in eventually.

As for the outer roof being transparent, that idea seems ridiculous… Roofs offer protection not just from rain and snowfall, but from all the elements and weather conditions. The thermal stress all the direct sunlight would impose on the stone and mortar structures underneath would end up damaging them, and the heat transfered to the inside of the building would also raise the need for artificial/forced HVAC and cause added energy consumption. A glass/glass-clad spire may be a possibility (not my personal preference, but a definite possibility nonetheless), but a glass roof? On that building? Forget it.


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## Clery

Mainyehc said:


> As for the outer roof being transparent, that idea seems ridiculous… Roofs offer protection not just from rain and snowfall, but from all the elements and weather conditions. The thermal stress all the direct sunlight would impose on the stone and mortar structures underneath would end up damaging them, and the heat transfered to the inside of the building would also raise the need for artificial/forced HVAC and cause added energy consumption. A glass/glass-clad spire may be a possibility (not my personal preference, but a definite possibility nonetheless), but a glass roof? On that building? Forget it.


Sorry but that's not at all what I had in mind. We're talking about a church here, not a mall, an airport or a train station. Not only you're right about the damages such a thing may cause, it wouldn't even fit with the spirit of what a cathedral is supposed to be and the feeling it should bring to its visitors.

I wasn't talking about a full glass dome or anything like that at all. I was thinking about something a lot more subtile than that, such as some touches of additional coloured stained glass, which may be added if the spire would be rebuilt on a more solid steel structure. They wouldn't cover what must remain a stone vault, but only bring a subtile additional dim light if cleverly thought. Anyway, I'm not even necessarily convinced that's what should be done, it was just an example to say that we should let people free to propose newer ideas in an architectural contest, without necessarily going for it if nothing coming out of it would be really convincing.


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## Ioannes_

fidalgo said:


> Concept Art pour #notredame vu sur Twitter. Qu’en pensez vous ? @parisfutur



Why do they call them architects when they are truly decorators? Whoever has devised this .... (I better avoid the insult) should be condemned by a Texas state court to forced labor paint on Trump Wall, with the brush of a Tipp-Ex and on both sides.


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## ahehe_96

das


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## goodybear

Clery said:


> None of the photoshops which have been quickly drafted and immediately posted on Twitter and Facebook can be serious. Those are just people taking the opportunity of the current media attention to promote themselves, and I include Foster here.
> 
> Personally, I'm leaning towards the idea it should be rebuilt as it used to be, or maybe in changing the behind the scene materials so that it would be more robust, I don't know.
> 
> Now this being said, I don't think we should fully close the door to a project contest, as long as the architects would really take the time to carefully study the monument, its structure, its History and its soul. There are many things which needs to be taken into account, the gothic feel of the building, its spiritual dimension as a church, the relationship between the interior and the exterior. We don't know, maybe something good could come out of it.
> 
> For instance, it's true the cathedral used to be rather dark inside. Maybe there could be a proper way to take advantage of the hole caused by the spire to bring a *subtile new light* into the building using new stained glass. I'm thinking here about the nearby Saint-Chapelle, which has an absolutely fascinating light coming in through walls of stained glass. I'm not saying we should do the same, I'm only wondering if there wouldn't be a way to bring extra stained glass light to the interior.
> 
> And if in the end none of the new proposals would be convincing, we would at least be sure that the thing to do is really to build it back as how it used to be.


I quite like the idea of bringing more light into the cathedral. I actually remember from I a guided tour I did of the cathedral in 2014, the guide told us that the cathedral was particularly dark because it was the first gothic cathedral to be built at such a scale and that the windows were made smaller since the engineers didn't exactly know how much support was needed. Maybe they can have some way to bring in light through the spire e.g. by adding hidden skylights of some sort (that aren't visible from the exterior). Otherwise the cathedral should be rebuilt as it was, just with more fireproofing.


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## alexandru.mircea

Politicians talking sh*t has lead to all these quircky renders, but, as specialists have been pointing out in the background, France is formally bound to respect the provisions of the Venice chart for monuments restoration, as well as its own comprehensive legislation, both of which rule out such fantasy proposals.


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## Rokugatsu

lanadelrey said:


> Foster's proposal looks ridiculously bad, the spire being described as "crystal glass and stainless steel" sounds like apple describing their newest iphone.
> 
> I like the Nerovnya proposal a bit more, at least it has the old spire and the roof pays respect to the original building by adding little details such as the small windows in the roof and the exposed "wood" (or metal) structure underneath. Additionally the shape of the roof is the same as the old one and not just a "shapeless" sleek blob on top of the cathedral.
> 
> Although there is absolutely no need for a modern interpretation of the roof or spire, they should just rebuild it using a less burnable metal. Looking at both proposals i feel like if you want to modernise the structure a modern glass and steel roof would look nicer than a modern interpretation of the spire.


I actually prefer Fosters proposal much more, it just recreates what was there but with different material. The first one doesnt fit the building at all imo.


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## roballan

After seeing these proposals with glass roofs, roof gardens, and similar nonsensical sh*t, I can't help but wonder, in which grade of the architecture major are architects-to-be teached to disrespect classical buildings, architectural history, art and the sense of beauty? Why are modern architects so willing to feed their own megalomania at the cost is ruining a monument and historical landmark forever?

Gosh, I often feel like we were way better back in the day when architecture as a major didn't exist and instead people turned to mathematicians, painters, sculptors and such to design and build these masterpieces.


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## Clemente Delli Colli

Excuse me, but I really don't understand. A medieval cathedral, even if heavily remodeled over time due to its historical events, is what it is, it is the image of its time and how it was wanted.
It should be rebuilt exactly where it was and how it was. To the last detail.
Who wants to play with hanging gardens, spiers and pinnacles of light and large glass walls, in my opinion can design another church.


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## DFDalton

Oh God. Just what I was afraid of. Now here come the "visionaries" hoping to repurpose the cathedral to bring it into line with modern (post-Christian) sentiment. Turning the roof into a park/viewing platform? "Green", aka the new religion of the left - sitting atop the ruins of the past. Fitting symbolism, in a way, for France and Europe. But as for me, I'd rather they bulldoze it than desecrate it this way.


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## Riley1066

I'd rather see them just leave it burned than to just "restore" it.


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## ZeusUpsistos

And here she is, still standing proudly in the heart of the capital :




















































































https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/


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## germantower

Seen from the front, it looks like nothing happened at all. Its definitly not the catastrophe that media made it seem to be.


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## wakka12

Well, it looked pretty catastrophic to be fair

https://twitter.com/ellievhall/status/1117849348048506882


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## derzberb

fidalgo said:


> Nouveau projet de rénovation de #notredame avec une flèche de lumière. Qu’en pensez vous ? @parisfutur


^^ merveilleux!


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## bat753

I've never seen so many stars in the heart of the City of Lights ^^

Talking about the project, it looks very much like 9/11...


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## fidalgo

*Studio NAB Designs a Greenhouse Roof for Notre-Dame*



> In the aftermath of the blaze that destroyed the roof of Paris’ iconic Notre-Dame Cathedral, Studio NAB has envisioned a replacement “greenhouse roof.” Described as a cathedral “in green for all,” the project would see the creation of rooftop greenhouse that embraces the reintroduction of biodiversity, education, and solidarity.
> 
> The Studio NAB scheme is designed to be “anchored in its time, turned towards the future and representing the stakes of our time.” The greenhouse would enable the professional reintegration of the poor and disenfranchised through education about urban agriculture, horticulture, and permaculture while reconnecting children with nature through educational workshops.
> 
> Bees would be reintroduced to the cathedral through a central hive, where beekeeping training would continue the scheme’s ethos of productivity. Burnt oak framework from the fire would be reused in the creation of planters and facilities present in the greenhouse, a symbol of acceptance of the course of history while creating a metaphor between old and new.
> https://www.archdaily.com/915803/studio-nab-designs-a-greenhouse-roof-for-notre-dame


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## DFDalton

Oh for Christ's sake, just bulldoze it and put it out of its misery if you're going to do this. When you restore a work of art - say a renaissance painting - do you allow some abstract expressionist to scribble over it so it better reflects "our time"? RESTORE the cathedral or just tear it down. DON'T allow this desecration. There are plenty of spaces for leftist gaia worshipers to use without co-opting this one. If an important and celebrated mosque were damaged, you wouldn't DARE suggest that it be repurposed to a different religion.


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## fidalgo

Studio Fuksas

Italian architects Massimiliano and Doriana Fuksas have proposed adding a contemporary roof and spire made from Baccarat crystal to the cathedral, which would be lit up at night.

"A crystal spiral symbol of the fragility of history and spirituality. Light as a symbol of immateriality," the studio told Dezeen.


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## fidalgo

Vizumatelier

Bratislava based Vizumatelier's proposal for the spire is a lightweight tower topped with a beam of light that will shine directly upward.

"In gothic times builders try to reach the sky. Viollet le Duc tried it also in the 19th century and came closer. Now it's possible to make it happen," said the studio.


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## fidalgo

AJ6 Studio

São Paulo-based architecture practice AJ6 Studio imagines Notre-Dame being rebuilt with a roof and spire made almost entirely from stained glass.

"In gothic there is the connection of the earth to the sky, and inside the cathedral, the natural illumination multiplies in colours through the filter of the cover in stained glass," explained Alexandre Fantozzi, creative partner at the studio.


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## fidalgo

David Deroo

French architect and artist David Deroo has created a design for "an idealistic representation of how Notre-Dame could be re-built". The visualisation shows a modernised version of the roof and spire that retains much of the original's forms.

"A middle ground should be reached between acknowledging the past and bringing the innovation of our time," Deroo told Dezeen.


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## Mainyehc

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the best thing to do is what a medieval builder or Viollet-le-Duc would've done: rebuild it as close to the original as possible, except with modern materials and techniques. And if you can't help it, sure, make the spire a little bit taller or something. Keep it simple (and respectful), stupid. I'd love to see a titanium-clad replica, that would look awesome.

As for many of the “renders” presented here, with all due respect, they are completely amateurish. Some of them look like sloppy Photoshop jobs, and that stained-glass one is just a hideous 3D model skinning job that looks like it was done in what, five minutes? icard: And what's with putting stuff *on top* of the stone vaults? I didn't even attend an architecture school (though the school that preceded my Faculty historically included an architecture course – which, incidentally, my dad attended –, and the entire descriptive geometry and art history tradition still runs deep over there) and I know those aren't designed to take heavy loads, as they are themselves very thin and light (come on, you can even see that for yourselves on the photos from the aftermath of the fire); that's why the roof was supported by the walls and the flying buttresses, not the arches and vault surfaces, duh.

The last proposal is the only passable one, but I still have some reservations about it. Why does it look like a tent? And why were those windows suppressed? That area was already extremely dark, if anything it should get more windows, not less (unless it really *is* a translucent tent, in which case the same issues I pointed out about the glass roof would also apply here).


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## lanadelrey

fidalgo said:


> Vizumatelier
> 
> Bratislava based Vizumatelier's proposal for the spire is a lightweight tower topped with a beam of light that will shine directly upward.
> 
> "In gothic times builders try to reach the sky. Viollet le Duc tried it also in the 19th century and came closer. Now it's possible to make it happen," said the studio.


they should replicate the old spire and install lights like this, it would look amazing and very unique at night time.


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## ahehe_96

the roof should use the new tesla roof


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## zidar fr

Since Bernard Arnault (LVMH) doubled down on Pinault (Kering) and pledged 200 M€ for the reconstruction of Notre-Dame, my guess is we are heading towards something more prosaic:


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## David Deroo

Thanks for the opinion.

I designed a visual of what could Notre Dame look. It is not a project, just a visual to illustrate an article published on BD Architecture about the danger of an international architecture competition and running down the clock for Paris 2024. 
The visual is here to initiate dialogue, and the 'tent' as mentioned earlier is only the representation of the volume and proportion of the now destroyed roof. 
As said on the article, a right balance has to be found between rebuilding the roof as it was, and a contemporary intervention. 



Mainyehc said:


> I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the best thing to do is what a medieval builder or Viollet-le-Duc would've done: rebuild it as close to the original as possible, except with modern materials and techniques. And if you can't help it, sure, make the spire a little bit taller or something. Keep it simple (and respectful), stupid. I'd love to see a titanium-clad replica, that would look awesome.
> 
> As for many of the “renders” presented here, with all due respect, they are completely amateurish. Some of them look like sloppy Photoshop jobs, and that stained-glass one is just a hideous 3D model skinning job that looks like it was done in what, five minutes? icard: And what's with putting stuff *on top* of the stone vaults? I didn't even attend an architecture school (though the school that preceded my Faculty historically included an architecture course – which, incidentally, my dad attended –, and the entire descriptive geometry and art history tradition still runs deep over there) and I know those aren't designed to take heavy loads, as they are themselves very thin and light (come on, you can even see that for yourselves on the photos from the aftermath of the fire); that's why the roof was supported by the walls and the flying buttresses, not the arches and vault surfaces, duh.
> 
> The last proposal is the only passable one, but I still have some reservations about it. Why does it look like a tent? And why were those windows suppressed? That area was already extremely dark, if anything it should get more windows, not less (unless it really *is* a translucent tent, in which case the same issues I pointed out about the glass roof would also apply here).


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## Jex7844

Here's to me the best proposal so far...:cheers:



Methalic said:


> *Une idée de la reconstruction de Notre-Dame de Paris conçue par le cabinet 3D Miysis... Là je dis pourquoi pas !
> *
> _"Bonjour à tous,
> 
> Miysis a souhaité rendre hommage à Notre Dame de Paris en réalisant une série d’images qui présentent une version très personnelle de ce que pourrait être une reconstruction respectueuse de cet édifice qui a marqué les âges. Nous avons imaginé une proposition qui évoque à la fois la structure traditionnelle malheureusement disparue, tout en prenant le pari d’une vision ambitieuse ancrée dans notre époque.
> 
> Pour que Notre Dame retrouve sa beauté originelle, qu’elle poursuive sa traversée du temps et qu’elle demeure un symbole fort pour les générations futures.
> 
> Si vous souhaitez en savoir plus au sujet de notre travail sur Notre Dame de Paris et accéder aux images en 4K, n’hésitez pas à visiter la page :
> 
> https://notre-dame-paris.miysis.be
> 
> 
> Notre démarche :
> 
> Nous avons tous été attristés, marqués par ces images d’une cathédrale séculaire qui flambe sous nos yeux incrédules. Nous nous sommes sentis impuissants face à cette histoire, ces oeuvres, ce savoir-faire engloutis dans le néant en quelques heures seulement.
> 
> Après la tristesse, l’heure est à présent à la reconstruction. Nul doute que le talent des artisans français mais aussi mondiaux sauront rendre à Notre Dame sa beauté et lui donner un nouveau souffle pour affronter les siècles à venir.
> 
> Chez Miysis, nous ne sommes ni menuisiers, ni architectes mais nous visualisons le futur, au travers d’images de synthèse. Loin du réel mais porteuses d’un message, celui de l’espoir d’un nouveau futur pour Notre Dame.
> 
> Nous avons souhaité vous présenter notre vision d’une reconstruction qui respecterait à la fois le style originel de cet édifice iconique mais qui, dans le même temps, serait aussi représentative de notre époque.
> 
> Nos images n’ont nul autre objectif que de vous transporter dans un futur alternatif, qui n'adviendra sans doute jamais. Un futur positif et inspirant, respectueux de l’environnement, qui ne masque pas l’histoire de Notre Dame, qui accepte le ravage des flammes et qui, des cendres, voit renaître cette église, un peu différente et plus accueillante encore.
> 
> Nous avons, avant tout, souhaité conserver les dimensions et les volumes de la toiture originale. Nous avons fait le choix d’un aspect visuel extérieur discret et sobre, qui ne dénature pas la silhouette de l’édifice à laquelle nous sommes tous attachés.
> 
> La mise en place d’une verrière reprenant le rythme et la position de la charpente originale nous a semblé intéressante. Celle-ci, vue depuis l’extérieur, prend l’aspect de vitraux légèrement colorés, tout en conférant une esthétique très simple, proche de la toiture originelle.
> 
> Notre équipe a imaginé un nouvel espace accessible aux visiteurs. Ceux-ci pourraient se promener calmement dans le volume sous-toiture que les intimes de Notre Dame appelaient “La Forêt”. Quoi de plus naturel que de rendre hommage à ce lieu au travers d’un véritable espace végétalisé.
> 
> Nous avons fait le choix de ne pas refaire à l’identique tout ce qui a été perdu. Pourtant, il nous semblait important de ne pas non plus renier le savoir-faire qui a permis la construction d’une structure en bois très complexe devenue mythique.
> 
> Au sol, le plancher rappelle la structure de la charpente désormais disparue. Cette même charpente dont certains éléments ont été reconstruits à l’identique et ont repris leur place de façon symbolique aux quatre extrémités de la toiture.
> 
> Et au centre de l’édifice, une flèche.
> 
> Reconstruite à l’identique, par les meilleurs artisans, habillée de matériaux plus modernes et dont l’aspect est indéniablement fidèle à l’originale.
> 
> Une flèche qui a retrouvé les colosses qui l’ont accompagnée durant de si nombreuses années et qui ont été miraculeusement sauvés. Cette flèche, iconique, aura retrouvé sa place et sera désormais illuminée, mise en valeur comme jamais dans son histoire ...
> 
> Cette vision du futur de Notre Dame de Paris est la nôtre, nous savons qu’aucune proposition ne fera l’unanimité, nous savons également que la sobriété est de mise pour cet édifice avant tout religieux, historique et culturel. Nous n’avons aucune intention de présenter ce projet ou même de le défendre.
> 
> Au travers de ces quelques images, c’est simplement notre imaginaire qui vous est présenté. Notre vision d’un futur qui n’adviendra peut-être jamais mais que nous souhaitions partager avec vous.
> 
> Longue vie à Notre Dame.
> 
> L’équipe de Miysis"_
> 
> 
> *Quelques rendus :*
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> )


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## Jex7844

*Our Lady : the architect of the Futuroscope imagine a retractable roof for the cathedral*









> The roofs of Notre-Dame in the style of the Futuroscope? One imagines the conservatives push of the loud screams. Denis Laming, the designer of the cubes futuristic theme park poitevin, but she is part of the supporters of an identical reconstruction of the roof, at least in appearance. “The roof cannot be restored because it has disappeared, it can only be reconstructed and the reconstruction exactly the same way doesn’t really make sense. This would mean that we would make a copy”, explains the architect. With a texture, carbon and titanium, soiling, aging, and the color of the original lead will be restored. “It’s important not to put a new lead.”
> 
> If the outside is exactly identical to the roof of origin, Denis Laming, the author of many architectural projects in China, has devised a number of innovations. “Our Lady must be fully respected, but must also register in the future so that it continues to radiate. It is necessary that it remains a beacon.”


This could also be a good compromise .

https://tiendagourmet.co/our-lady-t...-imagine-a-retractable-roof-for-the-cathedral


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## Red85

DFDalton said:


> Oh for Christ's sake, just bulldoze it and put it out of its misery if you're going to do this. When you restore a work of art - say a renaissance painting - do you allow some abstract expressionist to scribble over it so it better reflects "our time"? RESTORE the cathedral or just tear it down. DON'T allow this desecration. There are plenty of spaces for leftist gaia worshipers to use without co-opting this one. If an important and celebrated mosque were damaged, you wouldn't DARE suggest that it be repurposed to a different religion.


Quite right. 

Indeed, cut the crap and rebuild it like it was with a wooden closed structure as roof. Grandeur like it was. No fancypancy 'look at my creation' thingy for architects. 
Not from a religious view, but this is a place of worship, nothing else. Respect it. 

At least let the Paris people vote upon proposals.


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## MrAronymous

Red85 said:


> but this is a place of worship, nothing else.


I don't think you quite understand this building then. 

But the whole "rather have it completely gone than have it given a glass roof" sentiment is beyond dumb. From the front and inside you won't even see it. From the sides it's visible but wouldn't dominate the building or alter the silhouette at all (the last two proposals at least).

Is a glass addition to an old building original? No, not really. But is it the worst idea? No, not if it's subtely done and works harmoniously with the older architecture. You really think that if people had acces to the current building techniques back then they wouldn't have used them? That a lead roof or wooden beams are somehow the holiest of materials? It's simply the best they could do at the time.

So now that it's badly damaged, how about we restore its beauty in the architectural and visual elements like the decorative stone and artworks and improve the impractical and less beautiful parts (wooden beams, fire system, roof prone to staining and corroding) with the with the best techniques of our time.

The last couple of renders show that it can be incorporated quite nicely. Is clean glass in a nicely decorated frame that much worse than a stainy lead? People are now fawning over the spire, but remember that was a later addition too. Back when people were always ready to improve the already good.


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## Architecture lover

Apologies, didn't see your location. 

By mentioning Brazil and how Christian they're it made me think you're one of those current male glorification (actually shaming) representatives they have over there.


If someone actually comes with a statue proposal it should be a statue of a woman with a baby in her arm. Like the ones they have in Marseilles, because again that's the person this cathedral is dedicated to. Cheers.


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## Joshua Dodd

Why can't architects today design anything?


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## De Klauw

ThatOneGuy said:


> And rebuilding the roof (which, again, was a 19th century construction, not original) would be like pretending the fire never happened.


So? That's the point of rebuilding. Why would anyone want a remembrance of a fire? Cathedrals have burned down several times. This fire is not that special.

Also you wrong, the roof was original and was made out of wood that was over 1000 years old.


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## ZeusUpsistos




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## FelixMadero

CRIME!


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## Shenkey

I kinda like it.

A crime would be to build that 18th century an abomination of a spire


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## Ioannes_

Shenkey said:


> I kinda like it.
> 
> A crime would be to build that 18th century an abomination of a spire



ok ... ideas to rehabilitate the cover, shot ... but:

-the needle of the twelfth century
-the roof, a vulgar reconstruction of the XVIII

Nor would anything happen to improve the existing.


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## Manitopiaaa

ZeusUpsistos said:


>


Oh my god, this is awful. Rebuild it as it was. 

They're trying the "Louvre" contrast approach, except here it's totally inappropriate. This is a Cathedral, not an observation deck!


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## Sabina Altynbekova

This is my proposal for Notre Dame





I mean, just reconstruct it if you can. Architects nowadays are no more than an egomaniac artist, blinded by the desire to be popular and be one of the so called starchitects. The very concept of treating heritage building is minimum intervention(they are being called heritage building for a reason, and being modern is not one of it), if possible no intervention. And the intervention should be more of making sure the building is less vulnerable to fire rather than trying to change how it should looked like. 

The problem with architects nowadays is everything should be done with maximum intervention, everything should be eye catching and ended up being a landmark in a modern way, everything should be done so "I" as the architect become popular. I am an architect and i can assure you usually this type of architect gets the highest score and appreciation on architectural school, while architectural history class treated as unnecessary. So it is no wonder indeed that most architects who proposed for Notre Dame Reconstruction ended up trying to force something completely unrelated to be built on Notre Dame.


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## nx_2000

*The Local: French Senate says Notre-Dame must be restored exactly how it was*



> The Senate has now approved the restoration bill already passed by the French parliament to allow work on the structure to be completed in time for the Paris Olympics in 2024 - but requires that the restoration be faithful to the “last known visual state” of the cathedral, in an attempt to check the government, which has launched an international architectural competition soliciting designs for renovation.


https://www.thelocal.fr/20190528/fr...-it-was?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

https://twitter.com/TheLocalFrance/status/1133330473042698241


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## Elkhanan1

It can't be restored _*exactly*_ the way it was. The old-growth trees used for the roof structure, known affectionately as "the forest," no longer exist in France. I'm afraid the loss here is permanent.


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## nx_2000

Elkhanan1 said:


> It can't be restored _*exactly*_ the way it was. The old-growth trees used for the roof structure, known affectionately as "the forest," no longer exist in France. I'm afraid the loss here is permanent.


I would presume that doesn't count as part of the "visual state" as it was out of common view.


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## Fotografer

Designer Sebastian Errazuriz ridicules Notre-Dame proposals by turning cathedral into rocket launchpad:


































https://www.dezeen.com/2019/05/21/rocket-notre-dame-proposal-sebastian-errazuriz/

:runaway:mg::tiasd:


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## MrAronymous

Space Mountain: Mission Dieu


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## skytrax

:lol:


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## skytrax

Manitopiaaa said:


> Oh my god, this is awful. Rebuild it as it was.
> 
> They're trying the "Louvre" contrast approach, except here it's totally inappropriate. This is a Cathedral, not an observation deck!


I actually like. Besides, no one really use the cathedral as a sacred place anymore. Religion is slowly dying. :lol:


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## Brucey7

The architecture firm behind the design of the Apple store, Eight Inc, has submitted it's proposal for the rehabilitation of the Notre Dame Cathedral - using almost entirely architectural glass which mirrors the design of the original roof, spire and Saints.



















Personally, I've long been of the view that the Notre Dame should be restored as was, though of all the _new_ designs this is stunning, it has an ethereal quality, almost like a Lalique sculpture on an enormous scale.

Pictures credit to Eight Inc via The Telegraph.


----------



## parcdesprinces

^^ uke:

Next? popcorn


----------



## parcdesprinces

skytrax said:


> [...] *no one* really use the cathedral as a sacred place anymore. Religion is slowly dying. :lol:


lolilol... Keep dreaming dear... since e.g. the French catholic Church is still well alive (whether such fact suits your franco(coco)-cathophobic agenda or not)...

..I mean, in big French cities...and it's even growing again in terms of faithfuls attending masses on a weekly bases since the last decade, especially in Paris/Lyon/Marseille/Nice/Toulouse/Bordeaux/Strasbourg/Nantes/etc... and especially among the young people / the youth of christian origins. 
:happy:


:angel:


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## KlausDiggy

Notre Dame after the visit of Elsa. :lol:


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## JamesK.

I can't believe we haven't seen a single serious proposal with polychrome roof tiles.

Many roofs of the great French cathedrals in the 12th and 13th century were initially covered with colorful tiles.

I'm not 100% certain about the construction history of the Notre-Dame roof, but I've seen extensive research about the polychromy that initially covered Notre-Dame on the in- and the outside.


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## parcdesprinces

JamesK. said:


> Many roofs of the great French cathedrals in the 12th and 13th century were initially covered with colorful tiles.


Any example about that? dunno


----------



## parcdesprinces

^^^^^^ 

Lets sing with us/them... SSC-dears :grouphug::



parcdesprinces said:


> [...]
> :drool:


The Notre-Dame that I knew from my childhood (as a _petit-chanteur_ back then) will never be the same I'm afraid, whatever the "project" chosen is.

cry

-------------

*BONUS:*








parcdesprinces (2011) said:


> *Laudate Dominum !*
> 
> At the *Notre-Dame Cathedral of Paris* (last spring - Late june 2011 - ; extracted from the ceremony of ordination of new priests by the Archdiocese of Paris...and broadcasted live by the French Catholic TV channel: KtO=Catho.)
> 
> *Music by the French Composer Jacques Berthier (1923-1994)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Attended by more than 6,000 faithfuls (including 3,500 of them, via giant video screens, on the Notre-Dame de Paris' esplanade).
> 
> 
> Lyrics (from the psalm 116; here are these lyrics in 35 different languages + the original Latin version) :
> 
> *Laudate Dominum (bis), omnes gentes, Alleluia ! (bis)*
> Louez le Seigneur, tous les peuples, Alléluia !
> Lobet den Herrn, alle Völker, Alleluia!
> Praise the Lord, all peoples, hallelujah!
> الثناء على الرب ، جميع الشعوب ، والله أكبر !
> Хвалете Господа, всички народи Алилуя!
> Lloat sigui el Senyor, tots els pobles, Alleluia !
> 赞美主，所有人民，哈里路亚!
> 讚美主，所有人民，哈里路亞 !
> 주님을 찬양하라, 모든 족속, 할렐루야 !
> Hvalite Gospodina, svi puci, aleluja !
> Ros Herren, alle folkeslag, Alleluia !
> Alabado sea el Señor, Todos los pueblos Te alaben, ¡Aleluya!
> Ylistää Herraa, kaikki kansat, Alleluia !
> Δόξα Κυρίου, όλοι οι λαοί, Alleluia !
> להלל את הקב"ה על העמים, Alleluia !
> Pujilah TUHAN, hai segala bangsa, Alleluia !
> Lodate il Signore, tutti i popoli, Alleluia !
> 称賛の主は、すべての人々は、ハレルヤ !
> Slavas Lord visiem cilvēkiem, Alleluia !
> Praise Dominus, visos tautos, Aleliuja !
> Alle lof van de Heer, alle volkeren, Alleluia !
> Hylle Herren, alle folkeslag, Alleluia !
> Chwalcie Pana wszystkie narody, Alleluja !
> Louvai ao Senhor, todos os povos, Aleluia !
> Lăudaţi pe Domnul, toate popoarele, Alleluia !
> Хвалите Господа, все народы, Аллилуиа !
> Хвалите Господа, сви пуци, алелуја !
> Chváľte Pána, všetky národy, Alleluia !
> Praise Gospod, vsi narodi, Aleluja !
> Prisa Herren, alla folk, Alleluia !
> Purihin ang Panginoon, lahat ng mga tao, Aleluya !
> Chvalte Pána, všechny národy, Alleluia !
> Хваліте Господа, всі народи, Аллілуіа !
> Ngợi khen Chúa, tất cả các dân tộc, Alleluia !
> Áldjátok az Urat, minden népek, Alleluja!
















----------------*BONUS II:*

Still from the psalm 116... but not at NDdP, and not composed by a glorious French... 

That said, I must admit that this no-name little Italian* (*just a guess) composer is not that bad :laugh: drool...not to mention of course this great Korean choir singing in Latin :bow:


----------



## JamesK.

parcdesprinces said:


> Any example about that? dunno



Unfortunately not,they were mostly replaced over the centuries.


You can still see them on some churches and private residences from the 14/15th century:






















The St.Stephan's Cathedral in Vienna is also famous for it's polychrome roof, it was first restored in the early 19th century and then again after 1945:











https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Wien_-_Stephansdom_(1).JPG


----------



## parcdesprinces

^^ Not really a French(original)/gothic style "stuff" indeed (hence my "question" above )... except of course the very famous, over here in France, and "late French/gothic" style _Hospices de Beaune_, you just posted, which are/were not a cathedral nor a church, but an hospital. :cheers:


----------



## Mainyehc

Brucey7 said:


> The architecture firm behind the design of the Apple store, Eight Inc, has submitted it's proposal for the rehabilitation of the Notre Dame Cathedral - using almost entirely architectural glass which mirrors the design of the original roof, spire and Saints.


Nope, sorry. Whoever told told you what Eight Inc. was behind Apple Store designs was bullshitting you. Maybe Eight Inc. was a subcontractor for some piece of an Apple Store somewhere in France or something (like a glass staircase, or a glass roof detail design or something), but I can assure you that Apple Retail store concepts and masterplans were always and still are taken care of by Bohlin+Cywinski+Jackson and, more recently, also by [Norman] Foster+Partners and an internal team led by Apple Chief Design Officer Jony Ive himself (and under the direct influence, until not that long ago, of key Apple figures such as former Burberry CEO and now also former Senior VP of Apple Retail Angela Arhendts).

Really, you don't want to argue with me about that. My nickname happens to be “the Mac guy”, and I followed the vintage and now defunct blog “IFO [in front of] Apple Store” since not too long after its inception and until its closure, when its single admin and contributor misteriously retired so as not to make his followers aware of (and sad about) his health condition (he sadly ended up dying of brain cancer shortly after). If there's anyone in this thread that knows his stuff about anything Apple-related (including Apple Retail worldwide) without a doubt, that would be me, and I can pretty much guarantee you that Eight Inc. being responsible for “Apple Retail” masterplans, concepts, etc. is complete and utter bullshit, sorry. And if they are claiming credit for that, they should be called on it and maybe even sued by Apple or any of their partners with a rightful claim to authorship (those I've mentioned before, yes).

Edit: Yeah, I've just googled “Eight Inc. apple stores” and I got this: https://eightinc.com/work/apple . I *still* call bullshit. Maybe they were called in to implement preconceived designs, or whatever. Most of Apple's original Retail strategy was conceived in-house by Steve Jobs himself and the original Senior VP of Apple Retail Ron Johnson, and implemented at the strictly architectural level by Bohlin+Cywinski+Jackson. Eight Inc. were, at best and judging from their website, responsible for implementing the rather pedestrian “Store-within-a-store” concept, not the full-blown, standalone Apple Stores, let alone the exp*a*nsive, exp*e*nsive and flashy flagship ones. Yeah, sure, they may be displaying the Fifth Avenue cube on their website, but they didn't come up with the concept. That's still a Jobs+Ive thing. Maybe they worked on the metal fixtures, or on the cube redesign (before Jobs died it featured many more panels, but it has since been simplified). Can they design beautiful, free-standing, durable glass structures that adhere to the client's specifications? Probably. Are they design and architecture gurus? Ehhhh… I doubt it.


----------



## nx_2000

Not huge or surprising news, but fresh...

Digital Journal: Only 9% of millions pledged for Notre-Dame handed over



> Only 80 million euros of the 850 ($955 million) pledged to reconstruct the iconic monument has been handed over -- and most of that has come in small sums given by ordinary people.
> 
> Two of France's richest men, fashion moguls Bernard Arnault and Francois-Henri Pinault, were quick to promise 300 million euros between them after the medieval landmark was devastated by a fire which shocked the world two months ago.





> "First, you might have people who promised to give but who in the end won't," he said.
> 
> "But mostly -- and this is normal -- is that the donations will be handed over as the work advances."





> "Notre-Dame is still in a fragile state, particularly the vaulted roof which has not yet be secured" and "which could still collapse", [Culture Minister Franck] Riester added.
> 
> His comments come as the first mass will be held in the cathedral on Saturday since it lost most of its roof and spire in the blaze on April 15.
> 
> The work to shore up the 12th-century edifice is likely to take several more weeks before the complex studies on the restoration work can be undertaken.


----------



## Joshua Dodd

skytrax said:


> I actually like. Besides, no one really use the cathedral as a sacred place anymore. Religion is slowly dying.


That's actually false. Generation Z is statistically becoming more religious than previous generations. Also more conservative.


----------



## Architecture lover

I think for this type of Gothic they should only use metal for the roof, anything alse won't match the Flamboyant French facade.

The only other French way to cover the roof would be with dark slate.
I adore this cathedral in Belgium that looks like the essence of French Romanesque - Gothic to me, comparing the dark slate roof with that smaller poly-chrome tiled part on the left, it makes me realize I highly prefer dark shiny slate roof - the ultimate French. 

The cathedral is in the south of Belgium. Still regardless of how French shiny slate looks, for the Notre Dame I personally would prefer metal roof.




















Source


----------



## Architecture lover

Regardless of how much some of us dislike this institution (most of us obviously dislike it because of how conservative it is, and how much it interferes in people's private lives) Medieval architecture - especially in France and England is a real treasure. I'd protect these buildings as museums - if we were to get rid of this vile bigoted, life damaging institution.


----------



## lanadelrey

Architecture lover said:


> Regardless of how much some of us dislike this institution (most of us obviously dislike it because of how conservative it is, and how much it interferes in people's private lives) Medieval architecture - especially in France and England is a real treasure. *I'd protect these buildings as museums - if we were to get rid of this vile bigoted, life damaging institution.*


But aren't Notre Dame (Paris) and most medieval french churches owned by the state and not by the church?


----------



## Riley1066

Joshua Dodd said:


> That's actually false. Generation Z is statistically becoming more religious than previous generations. Also more conservative.


lol


----------



## Joshua Dodd

Riley1066 said:


> lol


https://marketresearchfoundation.org/2018/10/22/new-survey-shows-generation-z-more-conservative/


https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2017/07/13/prof-gen-z-more-conservative-millennials/

https://marketresearchfoundation.or...eneration-z-is-shaping-up-to-be-conservative/


----------



## Riley1066

Joshua Dodd said:


> https://marketresearchfoundation.org/2018/10/22/new-survey-shows-generation-z-more-conservative/
> 
> 
> https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2017/07/13/prof-gen-z-more-conservative-millennials/
> 
> https://marketresearchfoundation.or...eneration-z-is-shaping-up-to-be-conservative/


Sounds like a bunch of liars to me ...


----------



## Architecture lover

lanadelrey said:


> But aren't Notre Dame (Paris) and most medieval french churches owned by the state and not by the church?


True - the state left them in desperate conditions, not willing to ever again give money to Bishops (Conference of France) - lets not forget most of the churches are still governed by these representatives of God himself.
Now, many of us know how keen these representatives were (and still are) on the topic called: money - the only thing they have faith in, but after the Revolution that was no longer an option for them. That's why the state took the churches.

If we were to get rid of all the representatives of these institutions, the state could turn these stunning buildings into museums and then renovate them, knowing that the money meant for restoration won't go into someone's pocket. Someone who claims to be the holiest of being, while in reality it ends up as everything but holy - bizarre, vile, bigoted, full of hatred. An institution getting us, as Europeans in conflicts with people we have not a single link to - for example the middle east. 

There's nothing sacred in breathing hatred.
Our societies deserve so much better than this.


----------



## parcdesprinces

Riley1066 said:


> lol


Not sure who is the "generation Z".. but which is quite sure (in order to talk about what I know) is the fact that the French catholic Church registered (especially regarding the -bourgeoisie- in all the French big cities' center, and first in Paris), documented and commented a significant growth of -regularly- faithfuls since almost a decade, especially among the young and very well educated new generation of French catho'.. generation which is *1)* Much more traditionalist/conservative indeed than before (I mean since Vatican II), and *2)* much more "activist" (if I may say so) too.



Source: The French catholic Church' very accurate, precise & reliable data (even the French anti-catholics & our government take such data very seriously & admit that fact*.)... *Hence I guess for example the very, very Famous, very _"catho-friendly"_ to say the least LOL :cheers: (and very Long) speech of our President Macron (not to forget he's a catholic converted, by choice, during its teenage years though) last year at the French catholic authorities annual meeting = Quite an unique case -if I'm not mistaken- for a French President in our very secular, if not _atheistic_ Fifth Republic (i.e. since 1958; the very catholic Général de Gaulle including)


*La-Croix.com/Emmanuel-Macron-Bernardins-discours-2018-04-09*


----------



## parcdesprinces

lanadelrey said:


> But aren't Notre Dame (Paris) and most medieval french churches owned by the state and not by the church?


Indeed since the 1905-1907 laws over here, and the French catholic Church refusing to create cultural and religious independent/non-governmental associations (unlike the French-Jews and Protestants -Lutherans & Reformed - accepted to do), then all the churches, chapels, etc, built before those laws, are now indeed State (and/or local public authorities'/municipally) owned.... ...BUT, the Catholic Church/cult was also, via/in the said laws, declared as the *sole, permanent and in perpetuity* user of those around 45-50K pre-1905 catholic monuments (numerous pre-1905 abbeys/monasteries, lands, schools, U, etc, excluded of course), unless the Catholic authorities decide otherwise on a case-by-case basis.


----------



## adrianusmaximus

In Francia no esiste la libertà de culto, si esistesse no ci sarebbero problemi con la presenza de la Chiesa Cattolica nel su territorio con la logica proprietà de gli edifici de culto che, in tanti secoli, ha costruito. E una menzogna che in Francia esista pienamente la, scritta dappertutto, LIBERTA! Gran inganno frutto de una rivoluzione sanguinaria, intollerante y totalitaria che fini termino con l'incoronazione di un imperatore de origine italiano: Napoleone.


----------



## nx_2000

Notre-Dame: an exclusive first look at restoration works






Accompanying article: Notre-Dame reconstruction challenging despite Macron’s vow to rebuild



> Antoine-Marie Préaut, project manager at the Notre-Dame construction site, told the Financial Times that questions remained over the “stability” of the arches in the cathedral’s interior. He said workers had not been able to assess the damage because it was too dangerous to build scaffolding inside the structure until§ the flying buttresses that support exterior walls had been strengthened.


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## nx_2000

Photo Essay from Time Magazine: An Exclusive Look Inside the Recovery Efforts to Save Notre Dame


----------



## citysquared

If a modern solution is chosen for the reconstruction I sincerely hope that it does not stand out and upstage through garishness the gorgeous gothic masterpiece that ND is.


----------



## ZeusUpsistos

Recent pictures of the site :



















































































































































Photos by Stéphane de Sakutin, AFP.


----------



## nx_2000

The New York Times just published a great interactive story about the fire-fighting effort to save the cathedral.

Notre-Dame came far closer to collapsing than people knew. This is how it was saved.



> Before the [spire collapsed], Corporal Chudzinski and her colleagues had made a critical observation: The flames were endangering the northern tower. The realization would change the course of the fight.
> 
> Inside that tower, eight giant bells hung precariously on wooden beams that were threatening to burn. If the beams collapsed, firefighters feared, the falling bells could act like wrecking balls and destroy the tower.
> 
> If the northern tower fell, firefighters believed, it could bring down the south tower, and the cathedral with it.


----------



## ZeusUpsistos

> *Gensler designs Pavillon Notre-Dame as temporary worship space*
> 
> 
> International architecture firm Gensler has proposed creating a Pavillon alongside Notre-Dame as a temporary place of worship following the fire, which destroyed the cathedral's roof.
> 
> Situated on the square in front of the cathedral, Pavillon Notre-Dame is designed to host church services and markets for residents and visitors while the 850-year-old cathedral is being restored. [...]
> 
> Pavillon Notre-Dame would replicate the exact dimensions of the nave of the cathedral so that it feels familiar.
> 
> The roof would be made from Ethylene Tetra Fluoro Ethylene (EFTEC) cushions, a lightweight plastic membrane, and the walls from translucent polycarbonate panels.
> 
> Panels behind the altar could be removed to give those inside an unobstructed view of Notre-Dame's west face.
> 
> These moveable panels could also be added, rotated or removed at ground level to enclose the Pavillon space for religious ceremonies or open it up for markets and performances.
> 
> In a symbolic gesture, its frame would be made of charred timber.
> 
> "Charred timber, which is one of the oldest and most effective methods of protecting wood from fire, also symbolises that what once destroyed Notre-Dame will only serve to make it stronger, thus expressing a language of rebirth and transformation," said Gensler principal Duncan Swinhoe. [...]


https://www.dezeen.com/2019/07/30/pavilion-notre-dame-gensler-temporary-cathedral/


----------



## Axelferis

"Sellers in temple"

hno:


----------



## coco03

une autre proposition


----------



## parcdesprinces

^^ And what is its purpose?? Faithfuls walking around and above ND _à la Mecca_?? :nuts: :laugh:


*sigh*


----------



## DiogoBaptista

Paris Cathédrale de Notre-Dame sous un ciel orange, vue du Pont de la Tourelle by Torsten Giesen, no Flickr


----------



## webeagle12

coco03 said:


> une autre proposition


----------



## nx_2000

If there are any francophone folks in this thread it would be great if you could provide some corroboration from the French press as details seem a bit sketchy in most of the English-language reporting I'm seeing.

The Art Newspaper: *It’s official: the new Notre Dame will look like the old Notre Dame*



> The dozens of designs submitted in response to the competition run by the French government for creative proposals—the greenhouse roof, the stained-glass roof, the beam of light spire and the crystal spire—will remain just designs.
> 
> On 16 July, 95 days after the fire that destroyed the cathedral’s roof and flèche (central spire), the law that will govern the restoration of the cathedral was finally approved by the French parliament. It explicitly states that the cathedral must be rebuilt as it looked before the fire. It recognises its Unesco World Heritage status and the need to respect existing international charters and practices, and it limits derogations to the existing heritage, planning, environmental and construction codes to the minimum.
> 
> In the new power map, there will be one master-mind only, French president Emmanuel Macron, who will directly and indirectly control all phases of an operation that would normally be the remit of the ministry of culture.
> 
> The law has created a new agency with vast and wide-ranging powers to be in charge of coordinating and managing the entire operation. It will also receive all the funds raised by national and international subscriptions; manage all work to the immediate surroundings of the cathedral; establish training programmes for the restorers; implement information programmes to educate the public about the conservation process, and establish a scientific council to advise on the key choices that will have to be made.


----------



## aquamaroon

Axelferis said:


> "Sellers in temple"
> 
> hno:


Well said. I like the idea of a temporary place of worship and I like Gensler's design, but using it as a "flex space" that can go from Church to bistro?? I mean come on...


----------



## adrianusmaximus

Deliranti! Non hanno idea cosa sia il luogo sacro.


----------



## Riley1066

There really should be a separation of church and state in France. Macron should stay the heck out of this ... its none of his business.


----------



## MrAronymous

More of his business than yours. You have no idea what you're talking about, geeze.


----------



## Erlenberg

Riley1066 said:


> There really should be a separation of church and state in France. Macron should stay the heck out of this ... its none of his business.


Are you kidding ??? hno:
There is a separation of church and state in France since 1905 !

All the churches which were built before 1905 are public properties, so yes, it's his business !


----------



## parcdesprinces

Erlenberg said:


> All the churches which were built before 1905 are public properties, so yes, it's his business !


Indeed, and especially Notre-Dame (as well as all the other French cathedrals) which is not _municipally owned_ like the other pre-1905/1907 French catholic churches, but _State owned_.


----------



## Mainyehc

This entire discussion about the separation between Church and State is very interesting and all, and I know I'm not even a moderator, but as the thread starter and a guy mostly interested in architecture, can we please get back on topic and share relevant news and information?

Here, have yourselves an interesting article to get you started: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ontamination-clean-up-begins-around-cathedral


----------



## parcdesprinces

^^ I tend to agree with you on this (except of course this article you quoted from the very leftist and anti-catholic Guardian newspaper)... I mean, architecture, you know, is not just one "stone/brick" above another, and so on... (at least that's not what I learned during my architecture & urban planning studies in France & the US)..

So, sorry (again) to bring back the context regarding this very precise case, but NDdP is not a multipurpose building, but a catholic cathedral (a very, very old one and the France National one -if I may say so- ....not to mentions the millions of TRUE faithful pilgrims visiting it each year since... ).


----------



## Mainyehc

parcdesprinces said:


> ^^ I tend to agree with you on this (except of course this article you quoted from the very leftist and anti-catholic Guardian newspaper)... I mean, architecture, you know, is not just one "stone/brick" above another, and so on... (at least that's not what I learned during my architecture & urban planning studies in France & the US)..
> 
> So, sorry (again) to bring back the context regarding this very precise case, but NDdP is not a multipurpose building, but a catholic cathedral (a very, very old one and the France National one -if I may say so- ....not to mentions the millions of TRUE faithful pilgrims visiting it each year since... ).


Please save me the condescension, will you? No matter what these hideous times we live in may make you think, not everyone thinks in black-and-white.

I am a staunch left-wing atheist, and I will quote whatever newspapers I please, as long as the information contained therein is truthful and relevant to the matter at hand (that Guardian article is certainly more interesting and relevant than the discussion you were dragging on, as it's specifically about the Notre Dame fire and a public health issue that affects all Parisians, and isn't anti-clerical in the least).

What, do you think I'm anti-clerical? Just because I quoted a (oooooooh, bogey man alert) left-wing newspaper? Not in the least. I am very much in favour of the separation between Church and State, and will fight to the death in defense of that ideal, but I would never advocate for the abolition of religion. Ever.

There are more gray areas in my life; I'm very much pro-Catalonian independence, and a Republican (in the classical/progressive sense, not in the North-American GOP one), but I also abhor what the Republicans/Communists did to Gaudí's workshop during the Spanish Civil War (and, in fact, the thread that got me into SkyScraperCity in the first place was the one dedicated to La Sagrada Familia). Guess what, I also sang in choirs for more than half of my life (indeed, most of my life, as I did it on and off since I was five), and at least a third of the repertoire I sang was, you guessed it, sacred music, which I tried my best to perform _as if I was an actual believer_ (as a matter of fact, I happen to know the entire text of the Latin Mass, the Requiem, the Stabat Mater and other liturgical texts by heart – some of them, incidentally, French, such as the _Quatre Petites Prières de St. François d'Assise_ and the _Cantique de Jean Racine_, beautifully rendered into choral pieces by Poulenc and Fauré respectively – because of that, which did indeed lend me a better understanding of Catholic faith and its symbolism even without a religious education). I'm also a former Fine-Arts student (at a former Franciscan convent, which was seized by the State during our own Liberal Revolution, no less, and successively converted into the National Library, then the National Fine Arts Academy and finally the Fine Arts Faculty), and obviously studied Art and Architecture History, which in our Western view, as you know, is mostly Catholicism-focused up until shortly before the Renaissance.

So yes, as an atheist, who stared mesmerized at other important French churches such as Amiens, Chartres or the Sainte-Chapelle but eschewed visiting the Notre-Dame at the only chance to do so, I was absolutely torn when watching it burn live on TV. Otherwise, why do you think I would even bother to start this thread in the first place?

Clearly, you didn't understand my last message in the least. I fully agree with your stance that it's a sacred place that shouldn't be mercantilized, and accordingly also felt utter revulsion when our own National Pantheon, where many of our historic figures are entombed, was used for a WebSummit banquet (ugh… It's not formally a church, but I think you catch my drift); that doesn't change the fact that this is first and foremost an architecture-focused forum, that it's getting a bit boring in here (not for the lack of actual news out there on the subject, mind you), and that includes both sides (yes, even you, sorry…). People who care about religion-related topics sort of know already that France had a big Revolution and that it was them who introduced the very concept of separation between Church and State. The fact that the big, old cathedrals are now national heritage sites and part of the French State's estate is indeed relevant information (especially considering that it affects the reconstruction efforts and their financing model), though that's an arrangement not that dissimilar from elsewhere in other secular European republics, such as the one where I live.

Good, we've now established that, just like we sort of – and the French authorities definitely – established before that many of those proposals that would've bastardized Notre Dame's status as a sacred site were, well, stupid (not just from a symbolic standpoint, but also physically and architecturally), but can we please move on and discuss the actual building as it is and its consolidation works? And yes, that includes its contents, its symbolism, the relics, yadda yadda, as those details are interesting, too, but please spare us the holier-than-thou attitude. All of you. Please focus. Go and find us news and, if you can, give us rough translations, post photos, etc. Even more so if you're actually living in Paris.

Anyway, and in closing (as I don't intend to drag on this meta-discussion), Notre Dame will likely never cease to be a Catholic cathedral for as long as there is a Roman Catholic Church to speak of, but it's way more than that. It's a certified UNESCO World Heritage site, and even before it was elevated to that official status, it was indeed a monument to human genius, not just to faith itself. Discussing it – and, indeed, appreciating it – shouldn't be reserved to believers (I believe ecumenism also includes agnostics and atheists, and if it doesn't, it really should), and needn't be restricted to its theological significance. I'm sure there are Catholic-specific forums where you can fill 10 pages of discussion about it (including subjects such as, say, the actual contents and message of the first mass that took place on site after the fire), but I'd venture a guess and say that an architecture forum open to all is probably not the perfect place for that (especially if people don't put in the smallest effort to keep its threads current).

While you may think that it's über-relevant, dwelling exclusively on a generic topic that dates to 1789-1799 and is mostly solved and established by now (I mean, discussing Victor Hugo and/or Viollet-le-Duc would at least be more specific) is as undesirable as, say, discussing the merits of the Palast der Republik and the GDR vs. the FRG in the Stadtschloss/Humboldt-Forum thread, or Catalonian independence on the La Sagrada Familia thread (i.e. A Very Bad Idea™). Yes, those subjects are supposedly as on topic on their respective threads as the Roman Catholic Church and faith in general would be on a thread about a physical church, except not really, as my experience here on SSC has shown me time and time again. My €0,02.


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## Architecture lover

I am not even into left wing - right wing discussions, especially not on our way to the third decade of the XXI century, but I agree with everything you've said. 
I've stopped participating in such vile divisions, polarizations of people into very distinctive groups as soon as I realized people are far more complex and worthy that being just left and right.

I believe Emmanuel Macron wrote an essay on this very same topic, and if he stays truthful to his words of being moderate, instead of being an extremist (like the liberals and the conservatives) then he'll surely put France on the map of Europe and Globally again, which I believe would be great for us - as a continent, I always saw France as a crucial player in European affairs, and when I say that I mean it in a great way. No wonder the rest of the continent has sympathies and compassion with everything Paris went thru in the last 5 years.
I mean no other nation has had a leader that also happens to be mentioned in another country's national anthem, and yes I'm referring to Napoleon, and the Polish anthem.

Hugs from another, this time south European nation, and I hope you'll rebuild this landmark faithfully and with respect to the Gothic principles.
At last, the Gothic was called Opus Francigenum in the medieval era, by the Latin speaking nations - meaning the French work, that's where it all started, in France.


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## ZeusUpsistos

Complete summary.



> *Notre-Dame Updates: What We Know About the Cathedral Five Months After the Fire*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Notre-Dame Cathedral in September 2019 (Stock Photos from GiulianiBruno)_
> 
> 
> On April 15, 2019, a serious fire devastated Paris’ world-famous Notre-Dame Cathedral. Just hours after the blaze broke out, some of the destruction was already clear; as the fire rapidly spread, it consumed much of the Medieval building’s lead and oak roof, a large portion of the cathedral’s wooden rib-vaulted ceiling, some stained glass windows, and, most dramatically, the building’s 750-ton spire.
> 
> In the days and weeks following the fire, more news continued to trickle in. Two days after the fire, we learned that the building’s iconic rose windows, famous gargoyles, and most priceless relics were spared, and, in May, it was announced that the French Senate had passed a bill stipulating that Notre-Dame must be rebuilt exactly as it was. Over the summer, however, little new information has surfaced, leading many to wonder what the cathedral’s current state is.
> 
> In order to give you a glimpse into Notre-Dame Cathedral five months after the fire, we’ve compiled list of what we’ve learned so far. From news of potentially poisonous pollution to briefings on the church’s resident bees, we hope to shed some light on some of the story’s most interesting updates. [...]


https://mymodernmet.com/notre-dame-fire-updates/


The temporary nave mentionned in the article :


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## nx_2000

*Removal of Notre Dame's melted scaffold to begin 'in weeks'*



> It's been six months since an April 15 fire gutted the medieval Paris structure, which was under renovation at the time and crisscrossed with scaffolding where its spire once stood.
> 
> The twisted metal remained in place after the fire as engineers tried to determine whether removing it would exacerbate structural weaknesses from the blaze.
> 
> French Culture Minister Franck Riester said that before rebuilding can begin, several more months of conservation work done in parallel with an evaluation of the cathedral's soundness need to be completed.
> 
> "Our Notre Dame de Paris is not yet totally saved," Riester told reporters.
> 
> ...
> 
> The budget for the project also remains undecided. Some 350,000 donors have given or pledged a total of 922 million euros ($1.02 billion), according to Riester.
> 
> The Notre Dame Foundation has received 104 million euros ($114 million) to date.
> 
> Riester also addressed public criticism that French officials were slow to recognize the potential harmful effects of melted lead from the cathedral's roof that drifted into the air and onto surfaces below.
> 
> He said health officials take regular samples from areas around Notre Dame to check for lead, and that workers on the site take appropriate precautions.


http://www.startribune.com/removal-of-notre-dame-s-melted-scaffold-to-begin-in-weeks/563120412/


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## parcdesprinces

*La Toussaint | All Saints' Day (today!)*



parcdesprinces said:


> parcdesprinces said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seigneur, prends pitié de nous, tes enfants.
> Et vous tous, Saintes & Saints, priez pour nous.
Click to expand...












-------

*BONUS:*


parcdesprinces said:


> *Dérouler (si nécessaire) >>>*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Amiens | Chartres | Reims | Beauvais | Paris | Bourges | Orléans | Rouen.*


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## Thalassophoneus

I found this interesting article about the cathedral's rebuilding.

https://www.dezeen.com/2019/04/30/notre-dame-new-spire-roof-viollet-le-duc/



> "To restore a building is not to preserve it, to repair, or rebuild it; it is to reinstate it in a condition of completeness which could never have existed at any given time," wrote Viollet-le-Duc in his book the Dictionnaire raisonné de l'architecture française du XIe au XVIe siècle (Dictionary of French Architecture from 11th to 16th century).


The famous spire that collapsed during the fire was not anything very old to be missed. It was actually built in the 19th century by Viollet-le-Duc, so it was pretty much modern. If Viollet-le-Duc could adapt Gothic architecture to his time by making Gothic structures out of steel, the same could be done today. Instead of seeking to make the cathedral exactly as it was, which by the way is NOT what it looked like when "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" was published, France could make a newer and even more beautiful Gothic spire.


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## ZeusUpsistos

8 months after the fire, the cathedral is enlightened again at night.










https://twitter.com/notredameparis/status/1196496923382956032


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## Twopsy

Looks very bad. 50 million Euros already spent and they still do not know if further parts of the cathedral will collapse when they remove the 300 ton scaffolding structure:


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## hkskyline

*Notre Dame fire wakes the world up to dangers of lead dust*
Dec 22, 2019
_Excerpt_

PARIS (AP) — It took a blaze that nearly destroyed Paris’ most famous cathedral to reveal a gap in global safety regulations for lead, a toxic building material found across many historic cities.

After the Notre Dame fire in April spewed dozens of tons of toxic lead-dust into the atmosphere in just a few hours, Paris authorities discovered a problem with the city’s public safety regulations: There was no threshold for them to gauge how dangerous the potentially-deadly pollution was from the dust that settled on the ground.

Since then, The Associated Press has found this regulatory gap extends far beyond France. Officials in other historic European capitals such as Rome and London, as well as the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and the World Health Organization also have no such outdoor lead dust hazard guidelines.

The reason, they say, is that although there are lead regulations, no one contemplated a conflagration on a lead-laden building the scale of Notre Dame — whose spire towered nearly 100 meters (330 feet) high.

Poisoning from lead dust can cause permanent loss to cognitive ability, seizures, coma, or death — and exposure is of greatest risk to pregnant mothers and to young children, who can easily transfer toxic dust into their mouths.

After 250 tons of lead on Notre Dame’s spire and roof was engulfed in flames in central Paris on April 15 and authorities alerted Parisians to an environmental health risk, they were forced to cobble together disparate and incomplete research to set a makeshift safety level in an attempt reassure the public.

More : https://apnews.com/3ee8eb4a49a05b2514b58aa751c99c39


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## ZeusUpsistos

A 84 m crane has been installed near the cathedral to help consolidating the structure and then for its reconstruction. So it will be part of the parisian landscape for quite a while.







































https://www.paris.fr/pages/la-grue-de-notre-dame-s-eleve-dans-le-ciel-de-paris-7395


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## Axelferis

We need to precize that the overall consists in
-dismantle the scaffolding structure with which workers were due to operate normal works in the cathedrale
-the installation of new structure that enables remove the ancient starts from january .
The estimated schedule to remove the damaged structure is 6-7 months (minimum)


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## ZeusUpsistos

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/


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## towerpower123

It's great to see them working to remove that melted scaffolding and the amount of progress to secure and protect the building!


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## hkskyline

CNBC _Excerpt_
*Experts toil in dangerous conditions to restore fire-ravaged Notre Dame Cathedral nearly a year after inferno*
Feb 27, 2020

PARIS — Nearly a year into restoring the fire-ravaged Notre Dame Cathedral, experts are working through a backlog of now-blackened artifacts that once graced the landmark.

Tasked with analyzing and repairing the artifacts from the beloved cathedral, archaeologists, historians and architects are toiling to meet an ambitious reopening deadline.

The day after the massive April 15 inferno engulfed the masterpiece of Gothic architecture, French President Emmanuel Macron announced that Notre Dame would be rebuilt by 2024.

“We will rebuild Notre Dame even more beautifully and I want it to be completed in five years,” Macron said in a televised address to the nation.

“We can do it. ... It is up to us to find the thread of our national project,” he added.

More : https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/27/exp...me-cathedral-nearly-a-year-after-inferno.html


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## Gelato

Wow, that's interesting


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## Riley1066

So, President Macron let those billionaires off the hook for all that money they pledged by making the restoration of the building a national priority right?


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## hkskyline

* Coronavirus lockdown adds delay to Notre-Dame restoration *
_Excerpt_
Apr 14, 2020

PARIS (Reuters) - A year after an inferno engulfed Paris’s Notre-Dame Cathedral, salvage and reconstruction works are running months behind schedule, delayed by massive quantities of toxic lead, winter storms and now the coronavirus pandemic.

A suspected electrical short circuit or cigarette butt at dusk on April 15 ignited a spark in the cathedral’s attic.

Flames tore through the oak-framed roof and consumed its spire as Parisians lined the banks of the Seine and millions around the world watched in horror.

With France’s 67 million people under lockdown as Europe battles to contain the coronavirus outbreak, the delicate work to make Notre-Dame safe again has shuddered to an abrupt halt.

When President Emmanuel Macron announced the order on March 17, workers had just started to dismantle the 40,000 pieces of scaffolding left in a tangled molten mess by the fire.

That work had been slated for the autumn, but was delayed by an investigation into the dispersal of clouds of poisonous lead during the blaze and then by a series of winter storms. 

More : Coronavirus lockdown adds delay to Notre-Dame restoration


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## Robby24

My friend for the restoration of wooden interiors, told me that the work is primarily complicated and very interesting, because in addition to the burnt rafter systems, there is also an interior with stained-glass windows, there are several volumes of work, teams of performers are set up, and work begins, for example, they were afraid that vaulted ceilings will fall, and that’s true, they may collapse after such fire and water, but you can calmly disassemble the interior, deal with the organ (musical), because it also received a portion of water, the disassembled interior was taken out to the production site polar space and you can already work there after all a bunch of benches and panels with carvings.


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## Antony44

I want to believe that the cathedral will be restored and appear before us in its former majestic form.


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## 676882

Antony44 said:


> I want to believe that the cathedral will be restored and appear before us in its former majestic form.


I wish. Still didn't get what have they decided to do with the spire(


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## Pauluzz99

Any updates? Or no progress because of COVID-19?


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## ZeusUpsistos

It was stopped since March but they were doing preparations on site so they can start again in stages. I don't know if they have already, if not, soon.



letranger said:


> I wish. Still didn't get what have they decided to do with the spire(


Echoes are that it will be identically rebuilt but we will have the definitive answer in 2021.


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## ZeusUpsistos

> *Delicate work of dismantling Notre-Dame’s charred scaffolding begins*
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> *Workers suspended from ropes will be lowered into the charred remains of scaffolding that melted atop Notre-Dame when the cathedral went up in flames and begin the delicate job of dismantling the 200 tonnes of metal.*
> 
> An announcement that the work will start Monday and last through the summer months came Sunday from the office overseeing the restoration of the centuries-old jewel of Gothic architecture ravaged by fire on April 15, 2019.
> 
> Two teams of five workers each will take turns descending on ropes into the heat-warped web of scaffolding, made up of 40,000 pieces, and use saws to cut through metal tubes that fused together in the inferno. The chunks will then be lifted out by a crane [...]


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## ZeusUpsistos

We have our answer earlier than expected.


> *Notre Dame: Cathedral's spire will be restored to 19th Century design
> 
> French President Emmanuel Macron announced the decision, putting an end to speculation that the spire would be rebuilt in a modern style.*
> 
> Mr Macron had previously hinted he was in favour of a "contemporary gesture". However he has said he wants the restoration to be completed by 2024, when Paris is hosting the Olympics. The Elysée said Mr Macron's main concern was "not delaying the reconstruction and making it complicated - things had to be cleared up quickly". It added that the process of designing a modern spire, with an international competition for architects, could have caused unnecessary delays. "The president trusts the experts and approved the main outlines of the project presented by the chief architect which plans to reconstruct the spire identically," the Elysée said [...]











Source


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## Suburbanist

What a huge disappointment. I was expecting something really exciting, modern and avant-grade to replace the burnt-out roof and spire.


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## DH93Dyl

Wow fantastic! Really exciting news. This decision shows of respect for this majestic building and its cultural value for France and for all of Europe. Modernists can maim other buildings!


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## redspork02

great decision. Hope our donations will restore this gem. within a reasonable timeframe.


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## towerpower123

Thank goodness the spire will be restored as it was. A modernized spire would look awkward on the restored historic building. If they really want a modern spire, put a modern bell tower/spire close to the cathedral as its own structure.


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## New Défense

Photos taken today :


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## roballan

Fantastic decision restoring the spire to its 19th century beauty.

We've enough meaningless and terrible "contemporary" architecture replacing jewels from the past we definitely don't need modern architects ruining a timeless masterpiece.


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## hkskyline

* Spared from fire, Notre-Dame's organ set for lengthy restoration *
France24 _Excerpt_
August 3, 2020

Workers started dismantling Notre-Dame's grand organ on Monday in the hopes that experts can restore it in time for the fifth anniversary of the devastating fire that severely damaged the Paris cathedral. 

The organ — the biggest musical instrument in France — was not burned by the flames that destroyed the cathedral's roof and spire on April 15, 2019. But it was covered in soot and damaged by humidity.

"It is an absolute miracle that it has survived. An organ like this is enormous and looks indestructible, but it is actually very fragile," Olivier Latry, one of Notre-Dame's official organ players, told Europe 1 radio.

The mammoth task of dismantling, cleaning and re-assembling the precious instrument started Monday and is expected to last nearly four years.

Workers will dismantle its five keyboards, pedalboard and the 109 stop knobs that control airflow to its 8,000 pipes, some as high as 10 metres. The pieces will be placed in special containers inside the huge cathedral, where the cleaning and restoration will take place. 

More : Spared from fire, Notre-Dame's organ set for lengthy restoration


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## ZeusUpsistos

> *A stained glass roof twists into a spire for this alternative vision of Notre Dame cathedral*
> 
> *If you thought you’d seen the last of radical proposals on how to rebuild the notre dame cathedral, then think again. *Despite french president Emmanuel Macron having declared that Paris’ beloved building would be restored to it’s original state before the fire of april 15th 2019, dutch architecture studio, trsnfrm, has shared their alternative concept for a sculptural glass roof that twists into a spire [...]



































































3D rendering studio - Lightmap Creative


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## Neric007

This is stunning ! Maybe not for Notre-Dame but it is otherwise breath-taking.


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## bat753

Wow !


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## lanadelrey

this looks like a perfect roof for a modern train staion tbh


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## sgollis

Reminds me of the 'proposed' observation deck for the Eiffel Tower. It looked very cool, and for a quick minute I thought they were serious!









Eiffel Tower's Massive New Observation Deck to be Made of Kevlar Webbing


The Eiffel Tower has remained exactly the same for 120 years, but this year builders will be attaching a temporary, carbon Kevlar observation deck to its uppermost reaches. French architecture firm Serero will help Paris celebrate the 120th birthday of the tower by more than doubling the floor...




io9.gizmodo.com


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## New Défense

The scaffolding has been removed  !
View attachment 775406

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## nx_2000

New Défense said:


> The scaffolding has been removed  !
> View attachment 775406
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> View attachment 775408
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> View attachment 775410
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> View attachment 775415
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> View attachment 775417
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> View attachment 775419


Matching AFP article: Milestone for Notre-Dame as fire-damaged scaffolding cleared



> Culture Minister Roselyne Bachelot, accompanied by Jean-Louis Georgelin, the army general overseeing the restoration, were on hand as the final pieces were removed.
> "The threat this scaffolding posed to the cathedral has been lifted," Georgelin said. "Now we can tackle the final safeguarding steps."
> 
> Before removing the damaged tubes, they had to be enclosed in a new network of scaffolding to ensure they would not move. Another metal grid was then erected so that workers could be lowered by ropes to carefully cut the tubes apart.
> 
> Sections were then lifted out the crane towering 80 metres (260 feet) over the cathedral, and late October workers were finally able to reach and stabilize a massive beam that threatened to drop into the transept.


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## ZeusUpsistos

> *France on hunt for centuries-old oaks to rebuild spire of Notre Dame*
> 
> *Restoring 96-metre spire, destroyed by fire in 2019, will require up to 1,000 trees between 150 and 200 years old*
> 
> French experts are combing the country’s forests for centuries-old oaks to rebuild the Notre Dame spire that was destroyed by fire.
> 
> The ferocious blaze in April 2019 brought the cathedral’s 96-metre (315ft) lead and wood spire, a landmark of the Paris skyline, crashing on to the stone roof-vaults [...]


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## uakoops

Yeah let's make it flammable again!
Why don't they build a modern steel frame and just cover the outside with traditional materials?


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## Neric007

I agree that I don't understand the point of going for wood again. The original structure was made of wood, not because the architects wanted to use wood, but because they knew nothing else so they did with what they had. But the core idea behing gothic style was to break through from old architectural styles and invent new techniques in order to build new and reach new heights and volumes. Hence I am sure that if we brought back an architect that was involved in the construction of the cathedral 800 years ago and leave him the choice between wood or any modern new material, he wouldn't object to a new material. The wooden structure was just a mean of construction, not an esthetic caracterisic or an end in itself.

However, I understand that it is such a landmark, and that people from all over the world donated money and have a strong opinion (even though in the most part, ill-informed opinion about the history of the cathedral and gothic architecture) that going back to wood was the most consensual option.


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## Fudgis

I must confess I am uneasy about the choice of reinstating the spire and roof in wood as before, I'd initially assumed they'd go for less flammable modern materials like steel or reinforced concrete as were used in the cathedrals of Chartres, Reims and Nantes (and doubltess many more) after similar infernos (which have since long been forgotten by most as the external appearance in each was restored to its previous state).

Then again there is the precedent of the cathedral in York where the south transept roof was completely destroyed in 1984 (both roof and vaulted ceiling below being of wood) and was also rebuilt using timber. Some precautions were taken by introducing firebreaks into the attic-space and hatches that would open and vent a fire in the event of a recurrence so the risks of the same scale of damage repeating are reduced if not eliminated (the vaulted ceiling below is also less flammable, having been largely reinstated using plaster over a metal mesh between the wooden ribs and bosses, although this compares less to Notre Dame with its mostly surviving stone vaults). 

Thus I assume there will be significant modifications and measures taken at Notre Dame to ensure the risks of a future outbreak are reduced and more controlled.


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## jerryarkansas

Fudgis said:


> Thus I assume there will be significant modifications and measures taken at Notre Dame to ensure the risks of a future outbreak are reduced and more controlled.


Yeah, this seems to be the most sensible solution. It can be a hazard but we have seen many times before, with York and Windsor that using original materials for all of it can be done in a safe and easy way.


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## Arch98

When should we be expecting the reconstruction to be completed?


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## Mainyehc

Arch98 said:


> When should we be expecting the reconstruction to be completed?


Oof, it’s a bit early to tell, as you’ll see in my next post.


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## Mainyehc

Check this out! After much radio silence, we now got a rather in-depth piece from an American broadcaster (if anyone has info in French, by all means do share it with us, too):


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## ZeusUpsistos

Arch98 said:


> When should we be expecting the reconstruction to be completed?


The current planning is that renovation work of the structure itself should start in early 2022. The reopening of the cathedral is still planned for 2024 but it won't be fully restored until at least 2025 (the reconstruction of the spire being probably the last element, we should have more infos about that soon).

They have recently completed the restoration of painted walls as well as stained glasses in two of the 24 chapels of the cathedral as a test for future work, which turned out to be very concluding, especially since they discovered paintings dating from several centuries (that you can see on the 3rd picture), so even prior to Viollet-Le-Duc's restoration. Though they were in need, those chapels and the other ones would probably not have been restored if the fire didn't happened. There are always some good aspects even in the worst events.
























© Patrick Zachmann / Magnum Photos


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## ZeusUpsistos

It doesn't concern directly the reconstruction but it shows you the evolution of the cathedral throughout the years and centuries.


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## Ecopolisia

Why are nobody talking about that in fact also significant detail other only architectural perspective is ne a mystery,especially when are deeper and deeper evoking part of this 2qst century and its way of thinking.

The thing is I want to say is PLEASE , don't the tell me they will chop off all innocent oak-trees and therefore destroying possible (or most likely many of them, if it isn't all) wildlife within them.. Geez, humans are so egocentric some times to only benefit themselves and their sight of beauty and pleasure... Haven't you ever learned not to touch the nature, and it's even the unsubsitituted woods we have here that they chop off to use them to their sooo precious materials, and yeah I know it's for an also (in a human perspective, only, BTW) iconic and all special spire we have here to be rebuilt to its former look, buttttt still. Time to more thorough and well thought out new thinking of planning, thanks..

I hope some people from Paris or else where IN France making it a a huge concern (at least who thinking 21st century like and non-egocentric, mentally ) about it so they can find material-alternatives (a replica of some kind..something close enough and artificial.. ) to the spire who only have to be all nice looking and look nature like, material wise, but ALSO have to make it most environmentally friendly and most sustainable (of how to obtain quality materials at the same time ) as much as possible. Thanks.. 🤔😑🙄🤷‍♂️😅


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## nx_2000

There are ten trillion-with-a-T trees on the Earth. A few thousand one way or the other isn't a big deal.


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## citysquared

BTW, concrete has a far greater carbon footprint than wood. Very high temperatures are used to burn lime out of limestone to make concrete. I'm sure the woods will be restored with new plantings and probably more to make up for the loss of carbon sequestering a large versus small tree performs. No worries, France is a very advanced country and knows the consequences of its actions and will remedy. Wood is the only good way to go here. Looking forward to 2024. Peace


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## Hudson11

back to the reconstruction, people. Further off topic quibbles and personal attacks over diction or nationality will not be tolerated. Full stop.


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## Ecopolisia

citysquared said:


> BTW, concrete has a far greater carbon footprint than wood. Very high temperatures are used to burn lime out of limestone to make concrete. I'm sure the woods will be restored with new plantings and probably more to make up for the loss of carbon sequestering a large versus small tree performs. No worries, France is a very advanced country and knows the consequences of its actions and will remedy. Wood is the only good way to go here. Looking forward to 2024. Peace


Revised re-reply:
I know all of that, regarding the otherwise prgressive, highly advanced and lovely France. Just missed my answers I actually were looking for, but well I guess that as far I can get with it, now when you more or less did answer it, too.Still looking for any lookalike/replica-wood-alternatives to this otherwise wonderful reconstruction, like Norway and Canada also have had use to their very few latest high-rises. Just to point that right away out as well. Not only was it partially answered , but it was in a more delightful, rational , fair and constructively critical way. Lovely .

And, you too and yeah I'd really looking forward to the Summer Olympics 2024, too. Might - at least got the potential to be so - be most environmentally friendly of them all, I just know it, yay.And, peace out to those who might otherwise genuinely worth it of course 👍💎🌈


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## DiogoBaptista

Reconstruction de Notre-Dame : la délicate opération de sécurisation des voûtes


#Société : REPORTAGE - Entrer à Notre-Dame de Paris est un voyage à chaque fois différent. Ce lundi, on traverse le cœur enrobé de bâches en plastique pour préserver les stalles et les statues.




www.lci.fr





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1370663045853282305


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## Mainyehc

I fully respect the criticism over the architects’ decision to use original, centuries-old oak wood, but I still have a duty towards the other forumgoers of keeping them informed (even more so considering I started this thread in the first place), so here goes the latest news piece about the subject (CW/TW: trees being cut, but that’s nothing we wouldn’t be expecting at this point):


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## Ecopolisia

Mainyehc said:


> I fully respect the criticism over the architects’ decision to use original, centuries-old oak wood, but I still have a duty towards the other forumgoers of keeping them informed (even more so considering I started this thread in the first place), so here goes the latest news piece about the subject (CW/TW: trees being cut, but that’s nothing we wouldn’t be expecting at this point):


Oh, ok, glad to have a more elaborated, even more rational, non-trollish and specified clarification about it in general terms, both your first sayings and primarily through the lovely CCN-video, but when that said, also taken into account of what I have heard of the whole video as much as possible (to every single inch of every verbal details from the participants in the video ) , WHAT do you actually mean that the trees being cut, BUT still not what we going to expect in this very point?

So, how should I comprehend or connect that to my now - can sense it more than ever - ending and full clarification or clear perspective of the whole situation? That would be much appreciated, if you did that with more clarifying words than you relatively did so far. Like just to provide me - and, to other lookalikes, mentally, for that matter, not only me of course and our stance to cutting down living trees for men's needs and usage - the icing of the cake of finally settled my hardcore and 21st century environmental thinking frustrations I got with the other mediocre lesser specified article. Just curiously asking now. And, a lovely forum btw, overall, indeed✌😌🌈💎🌱🌲🌱💎🌈😅👌


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## Shenkey

Only by cutting down the trees can we keep CO2 inside the trees from rotting away.


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## Ecopolisia

Shenkey said:


> Only by cutting down the trees can we keep CO2 inside the trees from rotting away.


OK, hmm, how's that even possible? Explain more elaborative and specific , please. Just curiously asking again 😅🤷‍♂️😌✌😉🌈💎


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## ZeusUpsistos

Just checking on the lady. And the lady is fine.
















































Arthur Weidmann


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## hkskyline

Notre Dame's rector: "15 or 20 years" needed for restoration


PARIS (AP) — The rector of Notre Dame said Friday that the burned-out Paris cathedral and its esplanade could remain a building site for another “15 or 20 years...




apnews.com


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## ZeusUpsistos

An interesting documentary in french about the construction site, from the scaffolding removal to the painting of the chapels walls. You can add the english subtitles via youtube though it's not perfectly translated but overall it's understandable.


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## citysquared

So long as the cathedral is safe, it doesn't matter how long it takes to get all the details restored. It's good that they are doing properly.


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## villadebellis

*Cathédrale Notre-Dame de Paris*


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## ZeusUpsistos

Restoration work inside the cathedral.


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https://flic.kr/p/2nKAPfV


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https://flic.kr/p/2nKC4Lt


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https://flic.kr/p/2nKCZNo


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https://flic.kr/p/2nKC4u6


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https://flic.kr/p/2nKANXf
​


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## hkskyline

* Notre Dame restoration on track to be completed by 5th anniversary of tragic fire *
ABC News _Excerpt_
Oct 2, 2022

The restoration work inside Notre Dame cathedral is ramping up.

Less than two years before the grand reopening, Notre Dame’s exceptional stained glass windows and paintings, which were spared by the flames that ravaged the monument back in April 2019, are now being given a fresh look.

This past spring, eight workshops of master glassmakers and artistic locksmiths were selected across France and entrusted with the cleaning and restoration of the cathedral’s stained glass windows.

More : Notre Dame restoration on track to be completed by 5th anniversary of tragic fire


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## villadebellis

*this afternoon...Cathédrale Notre-Dame de Paris*


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## hkskyline

Nov 11, 2022
Architectural Digest _Excerpt_
*Paris’s Notre-Dame Will Become Part of a New Sustainable Microclimate*

After Notre-Dame de Paris burned in 2019, French politicians promised to rebuild the 12th-century cathedral as it was. But the city of Paris, which has pledged to be the greenest city in Europe by 2030, decided to take advantage of the restoration to rethink the surrounding gardens and esplanade, known as the parvis, as an eco-friendly public space. In September 2021, the mayor launched a pro-environment design competition for the site, and last June, the jury unanimously selected a team led by award-winning Belgian landscape architect Bas Smets. Their proposal will turn the Île de la Cité, the island in the Seine where Notre-Dame sits, into a sustainable microclimate.

“The Île de la Cité is the cradle of Paris,” Smets explained during a recent visit to his Brussels studio, alluding to the words of Victor Hugo in his book Notre-Dame de Paris. “It was where the city was founded, and experimented with public spaces—the laboratory of Paris.” And now it is where Smets and his team (which includes the architecture and urban planning studio GRAU and heritage specialists Neufville-Gayet Architectes) will conjure “a public space for the 21st century,” he said—one that will address both mass tourism and climate change, with long-term positive results.

Since he opened his firm in 2007, Smets has specialized in taking hyper-urban, often desolate, sites and turning them into eco-friendly oases. For LUMA Arles, an interdisciplinary creative campus in Provence, he transformed a onetime industrial rail yard into a lush 27-acre park, with more than 500 trees and a rain-fed pond to irrigate the plants that cool the grounds in the blazing summer months. In Brussels, he turned another disused rail yard into the 30-acre Tour & Taxis Park, planting 3,000 pioneer trees and using the former train-track ballast for an underground reservoir.

More : Paris’s Notre-Dame Will Become Part of a New Sustainable Microclimate


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## parcdesprinces

DEL


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## parcdesprinces

@Ecopolisia, what's so funny my dear, please, tell me???

😈 =beware, dear!


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## Ecopolisia

parcdesprinces said:


> @Ecopolisia, what's so funny my dear, please, tell me ???


Well,dear,to what you randomly lol'ed about, probably something above your post,and then you came right on to something quite more serious (or indirectly pun intended.Not sure) AND then finished it off with those kinda hilariously expressing , but sweet holy-like emojis at the of your post after that "probably" serious part of sowing us about those catholic quotes and videos,that's all into it.Do you want to know more what's already been said?..🤷🙃😅👍


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## nx_2000

PBS recently aired an hour-long NOVA documentary on the restoration process.


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## McKormak

nx_2000 said:


> View attachment 4322208
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> PBS recently aired an hour-long NOVA documentary on the restoration process.


Nice, thanks for the vid!


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## villadebellis

*Christmas Eve around Notre Dame*


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## villadebellis

*Cathédrale Notre-Dame de Paris*
*Since my last visit last month, I haven't noticed, at least from the outside, much change.











































































































*


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## ZeusUpsistos

villadebellis said:


> *Since my last visit last month, I haven't noticed, at least from the outside, much change.*


That's because there isn't ! On the inside though, the magic is slowly working again :
































Rebâtir Notre-Dame de Paris


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## villadebellis

ZeusUpsistos said:


> That's because there isn't ! On the inside though, the magic is slowly working again :
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Hi Thank you Zeus for your precious post...take care...


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