# Slump in Chi Condo Market: A Threat to Chicago Spire?



## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

Trump is having a hard time selling his apartments in Chicago, whereas apartments priced 6 or 7 times as much in NY sell out immediately. In light of this, is the expected construction of Chicago Spire fantasy? I have read repeatedly that the pre-construction work that its "developer," a painter from Ireland, can support a smaller, less complex tower. Moreover, if Trump can't sell his condos, how is CS going to sell? A serious project, Mandarin Oriental, appears to be on hold because Chicago cannot support very high-end condos.

NY and London draw investors from all over the world. While Chicago is a nice place, it's not in this class. Therefore, I'm curious as to thoughts regarding this issue. 

Anyway, here's the article.

_Wall Street Journal_
Stalled Condo Projects 
Tarnish Trump's Name
Buyers Lambaste Developer,
Whose Coffers Seem Secure
By ALEX FRANGOS
November 16, 2007; Page B1

Even the Trump name isn't bigger than the calamitous condo market.

Donald Trump's reputation as a real-estate developer could take a hit as some condominium projects emblazoned with his famous name run into trouble.....* And at Trump Tower Chicago, a hotel and condo project set to be the second tallest building in the city after the Sears Tower, 30% of the 825 units remain unsold as the condo market there slows.*


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

The Chicago Spire
Construction Update - Friday Morning, Setpember 21st

News Update: October 1st, 2007
Architectural design isn't the only thing spiraling at developer Garrett Kelleher's monumental high-rise. A kick off promotional media event for the Spire was held September 26th in Millennium Park....*Right now, no sales have been made and Kelleher seems to be in no hurry to seek financing until then. If everything falls into place and enough people buy into the Spire brand, the tower's completion date is estimated for sometime in the fourth quarter of 2011. *


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## cbotnyse (Jun 13, 2007)

Trump has sold close to 600 million in condos already and I think that is close to break even at this point so the rest is all profit. I do not know if 70% is good or bad at this point but it doesnt seem too bad considering the state of the real estate market nationwide. 

I think the Spire is a different beast. I believe the majority of sales will come from overseas and Garrett Kelleher is marketing it that way. With the dollar at all time lows, it is a true bargin to own such a piece of real estate in the US. 

The Spire is far from fantasy, it is a reality and I have very little doubt that it will be built and do well. The slumping real estate market will not last forever.

Chicago is growing by leaps and bounds and will continue to attract investors from all over the world.


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

Chicago is a nice city, but it is not an international one. Therefore, unlike NY or London, people from Europe, Asia, the Middle East and Latin America won't be lining up to buy apartments in the Spire. They haven't even sold out Trump Tower Chicago which is much cheaper. If Kelleher is counting on foreign sales, he's truly dreaming. Moreover, unless he presells a majority of these apartments, he will not get financing given the current credit market.

I hope the CS is built and am looking for reasons to believe that it will be, but I doubt that it will. The WSJ article simply heightened that belief. If anyone can provide information to the contrary, please do so.


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## cbotnyse (Jun 13, 2007)

LLoydGeorge said:


> Chicago is a nice city, but it is not an international one.


This has been debated to no end on this board, but I'm sorry Chicago is an international city. 



> Therefore, unlike NY or London, people from Europe, Asia, the Middle East and Latin America won't be lining up to buy apartments in the Spire.


In fact they are lining up. 

"Eight hundred people wanted to live in it as soon as the plans were unveiled. Eight hundred people contacted developers to reserve condos for themselves. It is slated to be finished sometime in 2009 or 2010. (More sources quote the 2010 date than the 2009.) source


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## malec (Apr 17, 2005)

cbotnyse said:


> This has been debated to no end on this board, but I'm sorry Chicago is an international city.


Who cares


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## cbotnyse (Jun 13, 2007)

malec said:


> Who cares


who cares about what? He is claiming Chicago is not an international city, but it is. It is important because many sales from the Spire will come internationally. Outside of that pretext, yeah who cares what city is international or not.


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## i_am_hydrogen (Dec 9, 2004)

LLoydGeorge said:


> Chicago is a nice city, but it is not an international one.


Please. You're a troll. I've seen you make this exact, same statement in about five other threads. Your anti-Chicago bias is well-known. The only reason you opened this thread was to provide yourself with yet another platform to bash Chicago. Totally transparent. This thread should be closed.


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## secondcity1 (Dec 28, 2006)

LLoyldGeorge, are you on period again? 

OK..the Chicago's condo market is not as strong as New York's ..so what ??

It is not the first time this TROLL brings up this topic. He's done it several times in the CS thread and other threads too hno: . Are you jealous or what, LLoydGeorge?

I hope Mod bans this troll. He's been creating threads to promote New York and build the platform for others to talk down cities like *London, Chicago..etc* LLoyldGeorge, I have a great respect for New York, therefore I feel there's no need to stoop down to your level and get into a pissing match with an idiot like you. I also don't need to defend Chicago just because of some stupid comments coming from you.

This thread is useless and should be closed






LLoydGeorge said:


> Trump is having a hard time selling his apartments in Chicago, whereas apartments priced 6 or 7 times as much in NY sell out immediately. In light of this, is the expected construction of Chicago Spire fantasy? I have read repeatedly that the pre-construction work that its "developer," a painter from Ireland, can support a smaller, less complex tower. Moreover, if Trump can't sell his condos, how is CS going to sell? A serious project, Mandarin Oriental, appears to be on hold because Chicago cannot support very high-end condos.
> 
> NY and London draw investors from all over the world. While Chicago is a nice place, it's not in this class. Therefore, I'm curious as to thoughts regarding this issue.
> 
> ...


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## cbotnyse (Jun 13, 2007)

> that its "developer," a painter from Ireland


I actually laughed when I read that. good stuff.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

The Trump in Chicago seems to be doing quite fine according to it's thread in the Supertalls forum.


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## cbotnyse (Jun 13, 2007)

LLoydGeorge said:


> I hope the CS is built


let me also call bullshit on this. You do not hope it gets built. You are dying for it to fail so you can jump around and say I told you so.


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## Paddington (Mar 30, 2006)

I like Chicago, even though I've spent a lot more time in the New York City area. I may move there next year. 

The city is international, but it doesn't have the same appeal to foreigners that New York does. I'm not sure why anyone would get upset over that. 

My cousin was living in London until he moved to Chicago this summer. His first choice though was a position in New York City (in Queens). I tried to convince him many times that he would be way better off in Chicago (as the jobs both paid $45,000), but the glamour that New York projects in foreigners minds is hard to overcome.

I have no doubt that rich Europeans looking to buy a condo in America would much rather go to New York (or even Miami or Las Vegas) over Chicago.


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## PresidentBjork (Apr 29, 2007)

70% all ready sold in the Trump Tower doesn't seem bad considering it's barely half finished. 

This issue of the condo Market in Chicago has been debated at ad infinitum, both hear and at SSP. The best people can do after a whole lot of debate is come up with fuzzy predictions like 'it might not always be as healthy,' - yes, I know, not really earth shattering is it?

The few times I read the opinions of real estate speculators who have either posted or written in articles, they tend to be cautiously optimistic. 

Everyone I know me included would also consider Chicago an international city.


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## cbotnyse (Jun 13, 2007)

Paddington said:


> I like Chicago, even though I've spent a lot more time in the New York City area. I may move there next year.
> 
> The city is international, but it doesn't have the same appeal to foreigners that New York does. I'm not sure why anyone would get upset over that.
> 
> My cousin was living in London until he moved to Chicago this summer. His first choice though was a position in New York City (in Queens). I tried to convince him many times that he would be way better off in Chicago (as the jobs both paid $45,000), but the glamour that New York projects in foreigners minds is hard to overcome.


45K will definitely go a lot farther in Chicago than NY. 



> I have no doubt that rich Europeans looking to buy a condo in America would much rather go to New York (or even Miami or Las Vegas) over Chicago.


This may be true, but I think the Spire has a special appeal because it will be the country's tallest building and is really a piece of artwork both inside and out.


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## TUPR (Nov 16, 2007)

I've noticed for a while now that many Americans and some foreigners have an outdated image of an older and somewhat stagnant and even post-industrial beaten-down Chicago. But that is changing, both in reality and in the image the city projects. (Even locally, in the Chicagoland area, many suburbanites who shunned the city just 5 to 10 years ago are returning.) So it's difficult to predict where Chicago will be in the coming years, but it is definitely on the upswing and this growth is not due to some minor trends. I fully expect the Spire will be built.


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

I agree, with the low dollar it would be a great opportunity to buy a complex. US economy might go into recession for a few years but then it will be back and so property prices.


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## bay_area (Dec 31, 2002)

Trump is having troubles in a lot of places-not just Chicago. 30% is not good, but at least he hasnt halted development like he did in Ft Lauderdale and Tampa.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=141422


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## krull (Oct 8, 2005)

Trump is just complaining, because he is not used to these other markets, probably. I think he just started to build all over the place after he built so many sucessful buildings in NYC. He though that having the name Trump, might be somehting, but the market is what it is. So maybe is not unusual for other buildings in Chicago to take a while to sale. There is so much going on in that city. It takes its time to sell. I am sure the Spire will be built. I sure hope so.


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## DCT (May 24, 2007)

I have to agree with TUPR. Chicago really has an outdated image. It, like a lot of other post-industrial cities (Manchester, Rotterdam, Antwerp, Boston), has made an incredible comeback.


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