# SEOUL | "Anti"-Development News - Canceled and Stalled Projects



## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://www.etoday.co.kr/news/section/newsview.php?TM=news&SM=2499&idxno=600798

Yongsan IBD an intricated maze

1. Conflict between developer and construction company for Increase Financial investment.

2. Conflict between developer and citizens for compensation.(requset for a lot of moneny)

*3. Seoul new mayor's Anti-development. He has right for project Approved!!!!*:bash:

4. World financial crisis.

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I'm going to post mayor's anti development news in Seoul. At the moment Seoul is got on DARK AGED! 
It is TYRANT! 

He already cancelled or delayed many other major project and skyscrapers in seoul. I will post as possible as i can.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://media.daum.net/economic/estate/newsview?newsid=20120626155924112

*Yeiudo Han River project Cancelled By Seoul Monkey!*

-Yeiudo Han River project is to built many building which like a 70 floors skyscraper residence instead of demolished ugly apartment.

-But today monkey mayor Cancelled plan. :bash:


Description of Yeiudo Han River project http://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?...egoryNo=63&viewDate=&currentPage=1&listtype=0


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## BE0GRAD (May 29, 2010)

:chill:et:


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## Bewal (May 12, 2012)

My condolences to Seoul hno:


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## erbse (Nov 8, 2006)

I'm not sure we should have such a thread here.

If this turns out to be more than just trollish ranting, we might give it a go.

*Objective and factual reports and discussions in here please, or we'll have to move or close this. Thank you!*


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

erbse said:


> I'm not sure we should have such a thread here.
> 
> If this turns out to be more than just trollish ranting, we might give it a go.
> 
> *Objective and factual reports and discussions in here please, or we'll have to move or close this. Thank you!*


^^ OK 
I respect your opinions. From now on I will report only cancelled project of seoul by mayor. Without comment or remark. Just scrap..

However Move or closed is your right. Because you are moderator. regards yours


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

Nodu Island Opera House project cancelled by mayor.

- Already USD $25,895,554 invest to this opera house but cancelled.

- Seoul mayor declared "urban agriculture" policy 

- At the moment Nodu Island *planted "Riced"* instead of OPERA HOUSE.

News http://news.kbs.co.kr/society/2012/06/02/2482982.html
http://news1.kr/articles/686759


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## skyscrapercity (Aug 31, 2004)

Hey, what is your main purpose of making this kind of thread?
Is it a kind of collection of cancelled projects of Seoul by one particular person or openning an official thread of calling 'idiot' Seoul mayor at last?

Also, the city development, especially building supertalls without careful consideration, doesn't always means good for its citizens or the environment. Rather,developnment without careful city planning or thouthless develpoment can turn out be a disaster.(Don't get me wrong, I maintain neutrality.)

Moreover, it is not healthful to make such a thead like this, 
Certainly, it will give bad or wrong impression of Seoul and make current situation worsen, which many forumers was and is skeptical about koreans proposals. Don't you think so?


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## Kimiwind1184 (Feb 26, 2011)

^ I second that.

Something that I don't understand (No offence Inno) is throwing crap on your mayor and calling him by some ridiculous absurd names..! I think you should show him some respect no matter what he does to your city as long as it will not harm your everyday life. 

I think he is very realistic and considers the current global crisis (It's very important to know where to spend now and I mean priroties). I do agree with him cancelling all these proposals.. You will realize that when most of europe go bankrupt.

In other words, relax!


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

Frankly, I don't think that most planned developments look as impressive as the "unplanned" environments of places like New York, Hong Kong, and Tokyo. They look less like there's a real demand for space and development and more like the situation is such that the physical environment must be altered to create demand that isn't there. I'd much rather see a gradual increase in skyscraper density in places like Yeouido, Jongno, and Gangnam that seems spontaneous and natural. That's how you end up with visually impressive cityscapes.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://media.daum.net/economic/estate/newsview?newsid=20120627210727347

*Over 38 floors residence strictly prohibited beside HAN River of Seoul.*

-*Today* pass redevelopement plan as 38~39 floors of "Sin ban po 1 cha" apartment.

-Original plan which citizens request with 49 floors is rejected by seoul.

-With this guide line will be apply to other redevelopemet project of Han river(YONGSAN IBD is beside han river!!!).

-According to the report Over 38 floors residence strictly prohibited beside HAN River of Seoul.

-Because Seoul new mayor dislike skyscraper.

-Therefore gorgeous skyline such like a "Hong kong" "Singgapore" is impossible in Han river of Seoul.


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

^^See, like that makes a certain kind of sense. Both Hong Kong and Singapore are space-constrained in a way that Seoul isn't, so why shouldn't the mayor try and make the river so that everyone can enjoy it? There's lots of room for all kinds of skyscrapers elsewhere in the city.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

aquaticko said:


> ^^See, like that makes a certain kind of sense. Both Hong Kong and Singapore are space-constrained in a way that Seoul isn't, so why shouldn't the mayor try and make the river so that everyone can enjoy it? There's lots of room for all kinds of skyscrapers elsewhere in the city.


^^
As you know beside han river is privatization by comi apartment. Only very few rich citizens can enjoy Han river's landcape. 

Therefor skyscraper project is for "make the river so that everyone can enjoy it".
Apartment to built higher instead of land donation as "riveside park" "Wind load" "open space for sight seeing" This is a plan for future of city.
But he(mayor) disposal as waste. Because these all project push up by "a predecessor" mayor. He cancelled all project which push up by predecessor. They are counter party as politician. This is political problem.

Anyway Seoul new mayor is anti developer. He said "I will do anything during my regime" He only planted "riced and vegitable" in seoul. 


http://www.mt.co.kr/view/mtview.php?type=1&no=2012040514433042927&outlink=1
more news http://www.ilyoseoul.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=60349

*Conflict between Seoul and Minstry of Land, transfer about Hyundai global business center! *

-Hyundai&Kia global tower(over 500m) is going to built in Duksum of Seoul.

-For this project "regualtion revised this years by minstry of Land, transfer.

-But all administration procedure stop by Seoul new mayor

-Original plan is not seoul but Hyundai&Kia global tower is going to built in Frankfrt of Germany.

-*Could you understand Mayor who rejected Big company's suggstion for Investment and recruit his own citizens during world financial crisis?*


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## brianmoon85 (Oct 14, 2006)

Kimiwind1184 said:


> ^ I second that.
> 
> Something that I don't understand (No offence Inno) is throwing crap on your mayor and calling him by some ridiculous absurd names..! I think you should show him some respect no matter what he does to your city as long as it will not harm your everyday life.
> 
> ...


I third to that as well. I am a big fan of nice skylines and skyscrapers as much as anyone here on this forum. But in times of economic crisis and hardship, building a skyscraper won't help anyone. It's just NOT logical at all. Plus, how does building higher floored apartments make everyone "enjoy" the Han River?? Are they even able to afford it when Seoul Apartments usually cost anymore from $700,000 to over $5,000,000 which fluctuates back and forth (Seoul's Real Estate is insane!!) 

As for what the mayor is doing, he is trying to use money towards what citizens want, not what developers want in Seoul. Plus he does NOT have to follow Oh Se Hoon's ways of "Design Seoul". 

I see NO point why this thread has opened and it's a major embarrassment to the Korean community. Inno4321, you really need to chill dude and I hope you're not one of those people that want Seoul to become a "Post-Singapore" or "Post Hong Kong" in terms of Skyline in Asia. Please someone delete this thread it's seriously disgustinghno:


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## citypia (Jan 9, 2005)

To inno,

Many projects by former Seoul mayor, Oh Se-hoon, already had many problems.
He put a big finacial burden upon Seoul's citizens to build many tall apartment towers and luxurious things. For example, the redevelopment of Yeido was pain in the ass for Yeiodo residents.

New mayor is trying to fix the problems in his own ways NOW whether you like or not.

Also, I don't understand why Seoul should follow Hongkong and Singapre, instead of making its own skyline.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

BE0GRAD said:


> :chill:et:





Bewal said:


> My condolences to Seoul hno:


Thanks for yours condolences 



http://news.mk.co.kr/newsRead.php?year=2012&no=117092

*Saewun Green Avenue Stopped by Seoul mayor*

-This project which is going to connected Jonmou palace(Unesco heritage) with Namsan mountain through "green park"

-Already finished compensation negociation procedure.

-Already finished project's 1 step and china company invested to this area. 

-But suddenly stopped by seoul.

-Accodding to the report probably this project cancelled and old concret factory is going to remodeling 

*Description about project* 
http://blog.naver.com/systemi1?Redirect=Log&logNo=140071888975
http://sallynice.blog.me/110039037600
http://blog.naver.com/lunelake?Redirect=Log&logNo=110054823640


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://www.segye.com/Articles/NEWS/ECONOMY/Article.asp?aid=20120604020263&subctg1=&subctg2=

*Seocho Lotte cholsung redevelopment project stalled by seoul mayor.*

- Seocho Lotte project is going to construction muli-complex skyscraper.(about 280~300m)

- Located beside SAMSUNG head office. 

- For this project "regualtion revised" this years by minstry of Land, transfer.

- But stalled by seoul. 

-The ministry of land, transfer complain about irrational policy of Seoul mayor!
http://www.etoday.co.kr/news/section/newsview.php?TM=news&SM=2499&idxno=595338

-Accordding to the some real-estate proffesional "It is very pessimistic for construction skyscraper in seoul when during new mayor regime."

http://www.etoday.co.kr/news/section/newsview.php?TM=news&SM=2499&idxno=595338


*Description about project*
http://www.hankyung.com/news/app/newsview.php?aid=2012040333331
http://www.mt.co.kr/view/mtview.php?type=1&no=2012040310084956965&outlink=1


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## erbse (Nov 8, 2006)

^ That's one hideous looking tower, be glad it won't go up there.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

erbse said:


> ^ That's one hideous looking tower, be glad it won't go up there.


^^ Yeap. Look like a phallus(one phallus and two ball). However just elementary desing let expected another renewal one 

By the way i really exicted about NASA's robots whethere safety landing or not on Mars in 5.agust


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://news.hankooki.com/lpage/society/201202/h2012021321232321950.htm


*Seoul international harbor project is going to canacelled by Seoul mayor!*

-Seoul international harbor is part of "Kyongin Ara Canal" which is connected china and Seoul through 33km long 80m wide canal for cruise ship.

-This canal *already open* last at June, 2012(construction period from 2009~2012)

-The ministry of land, transfer designated to "Yeuido" "Yongsan IBD" of seoul as international harbor .

-But Seoul mayor said "This is useless public works" Therefore i'm going to cancell "Yeuido" "Yongsan" as harbor"

-The ministry of land, transfer said "If seoul mayor cancalled designated of "Yeuido", "Yongsan IBD" as harbor then tourist can not enter to Han river of seoul. Therefore we'll re-designated those harbor as "National Harbor" and project push up again.

-Can you understood the mayor who cancelled his own city's Harbor which will be attracted many china and japan tourist with cruise ship to Seoul?

-There are many cruise ship in the la Seine river of paris or Thames river of london. Why not in Seoul?

*Description about project*
http://blog.naver.com/sunwoojo1?Redirect=Log&logNo=60142577085
http://blog.naver.com/chkdream3?Redirect=Log&logNo=60161827991
http://blog.naver.com/nawnmo?Redirect=Log&logNo=60162000454


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## citypia (Jan 9, 2005)

Sister Ray said:


> To be honest, I find the man (Mayor Park,) pretty annoying also.
> 
> What really irks me is his recent legislation requiring large supermarkets (E Mart, Homeplus etc. ) to close for, I believe, 2 days per month. Ostensibly this was to allow "Mom & Pop" stores to compete. The trouble is if you are shopping for anything more esoteric than instant noodles you're out of luck as Mom & Pop only stock the most rudimentary items.
> 
> He is not helping the citizens of Seoul at all, IMO.


First of all, the shutdown system of south korea's major outlets, SSM and department stores, aimed to helping to protect traditional marketplaces and small stores, was started from Busan namgu district. Then it spreaded all over Korea since 22nd, April. My point is why only Seoul mayor has to be blamed for it?

Second of all, that shutdown system in Seoul only partly was instituted
If you are shopping for anything more esoteric than instant noodles , just go find other distrcts if you are real hurry or urgent.
It is just a minor inconvenience we can easily put up with.

Third of all. the laborers of big outets, SSM and department stores have to have a day off at least on Sunday for their better working conditions. Remember that the workers are also seoul citizens!

Forth of all, the shutdown system is now in the process of legal battle.

Maybe, mayor Park has been doing something in wrong way as long as he is not perfect.
But don't put all blame on him.


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## citypia (Jan 9, 2005)

Look at this,
As I expected already,
this stupid thread is turning into politics issues about bashing Seoul mayor Park. LOCK THIS THREAD :lock::lock::lock:

Look at this, this banner shows how former mayor did his job for Seoul citizens.
The banner says that Oh, Se-hoon, is a dictator developer and making bigger Yougsan disaster.


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## archikind (Dec 25, 2011)

Who is this stupid mayor?? how are seoul people living without uprooting him??


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

Munwon said:


> This is the dumbest thread in SSC history. When I was in Seoul last month tons of high rise construction everywhere.





brianmoon85 said:


> As for what the mayor is doing, he is trying to use money towards what citizens want, not what developers want in Seoul. Plus he does NOT have to follow Oh Se Hoon's ways of "Design Seoul".
> 
> I see NO point why this thread has opened and it's a major embarrassment to the Korean community. Inno4321, you really need to chill dude and I hope you're not one of those people that want Seoul to become a "Post-Singapore" or "Post Hong Kong" in terms of Skyline in Asia. Please someone delete this thread it's seriously disgustinghno:





citypia said:


> this stupid thread is turning into politics issues about bashing Seoul mayor Park. LOCK THIS THREAD :lock::lock::lock:


^^ Would you also *LOCK or DELETE* the Citizens's file a suit against seoul mayor? Come on man. This is a democratic South korea not North Korea. OK?


http://media.daum.net/economic/estate/newsview?newsid=20120723105613306

* Eventually, Park won sun's skyline restricted is bring file a suit(literal translation of today korean News title) *
*Today Seoul will be suited by sin ban po 1cha apartment citizens.
Seoul citizens lodged a compensation claim against seoul!*

-Accordding to the report, Today sin ban po 1cha apartment citizens beginnig prepare for suit against park wonsun seoul mayor.

-Citizens said "seoul mayor is *sheer absurdity*. We already suggest 61 floors redeveloment plan to seoul goverment. But suddenly park rejected plan and command to as below 35floors. It is very irrational decision."

-In summary, Follow to the hanriver Renaissance project sinbanpo 1ch apartment suggest *61floors redevelomet plan* to seoul goverment. But new mayor rejected 61floors plan. Then request *below 35 floors* .
Due to this irrational decision *citizens wastes time for 1 and half years and damage to their own property*.
-So they file a suit.

I'm already suggested this problem in my thread such like title as "Seoul mayor make a "닭장아파트(chicken coop apartment)" in banpo of seoul." thread number 32.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://www.mt.co.kr/view/mtview.php?type=1&no=2012072017125393040&outlink=1

*"Gangnam circle highway, Westside dig deep smart-highway, Puongchang Tunel, time extension/stalled rally by seoul mayor 
*

-Accordding to the* yesterday report*, Seoul mayor *cut the budget* of Social Overhead Capital project in seoul.

-Therefore "*Gangnam circle highway, Westside dig deep smart-highway, Puongchang Tunel* infrastructure construction is *delay to completion/stalled beginning construction* by seoul mayor decision .

- * Gangnam circle highway(underconstruction) is 22.9km length * highway. completion is 2014. But delayed to 2016.
- *Westside dig deep smart-highway is 11km length smart-highway dig deep under 40m.* Actually it is going to this years beginng construction. But stalled by mayor decision
-*Puongchang Tunel is 2.32㎞ length tunel*. It is going to this years begin construction. But stalled by mayor decision.


Description about Gangnam circle highway(*underconstruction*. Very near from my home)
http://blog.naver.com/kir210?Redirect=Log&logNo=110071223912
http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=sec&sid1=102&oid=003&aid=0000503797
Description about Westside dig deep highway(Very near from my home)
http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=sec&sid1=103&oid=009&aid=0002258016
Description about Puongchang Tunel
http://blog.naver.com/veda066?Redirect=Log&logNo=50093942744


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

Sister Ray said:


> To be honest, I find the man (Mayor Park,) pretty annoying also.
> 
> What really irks me is his recent legislation requiring large supermarkets (E Mart, Homeplus etc. ) to close for, I believe, 2 days per month. Ostensibly this was to allow "Mom & Pop" stores to compete. The trouble is if you are shopping for anything more esoteric than instant noodles you're out of luck as Mom & Pop only stock the most rudimentary items.
> 
> He is not helping the citizens of Seoul at all, IMO.


^^I'm absolutely agree with Sister Ray 

Last sunday i go to Homeplus in geumcheon of seoul . But closed. Very inconvenience. Even korean website almost netizen complain about force closed of large supermarkets. It is like a communism dictatorship. 
This kind of irrational act prevail on seoul's many project. 
Therefore seoul mayor suited by own citizens.(File a suit is uncommon in s. korea. Very ​rarely happens)

I'm korean i live in Seoul I love seoul. But Many korean want to show something "luxury, clean, beautiful" side of Korea. Especially some korean member in SSC. But i can not understood why they wish to hide darkside of seoul?


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## skyscrapercity (Aug 31, 2004)

I think there is no need such a thread here.

Like Kimiwind1184 said, the whole talk is about bashing the mayor in a way or another at the end.
What's the purpuse of this thread exactly? It's pointless.

Inno4321 doesn't listen and care whatever other forummers says and he only replies to the forummers that agree with his opinions and keeps posting something about bashing Seoul Mayor here. He is not logical at all.

More honestly, inno, you are the one who is acting like a dictator, a communist who comes from North Korea.

There are so many different opinions of Seoul citizens. 
I think you are quite one-sided and are biased. 
Why don't you accept different opinions on the other side, huh? (The fact is that many seoulites still support the current Seoul mayor.)

As far as I know, no korean forummers hide anything.
Well, I don't find any dark side of Korea in your Seoul thread too.

You want to show the dark side of Korea? Why don't you post run-down area of Geumcheon-gu, your neighborhood if you really want to.
I really don't understand why you don't understand the opinions of poor people, your neighbors. (Ironically, don't you know that Yongsan IBD project is the very dark side of korea, to kick out poor residents people and try to build luxurious things?)


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://www.mt.co.kr/view/mtview.php?type=1&no=2012071210205962730&outlink=1

*Eventually, Geumcheon of Seoul massive urban redevelopment project cancelled.*

-Geumcheon of Seoul massive urban redevelopment project is located in my home town.

-I had been looking forward to see this project's breakthrough. However one weeks ago official cancelled.

-More detailed explanations about this project
Area : 684,000㎡ 
Building 27(at least over 26floors/Hospital,Police,Park), 30 apartment(8,000 houses) included 250m landmark tower. 
Goal population : 19,200 citizens
Purpose project : To make supporter residence district for "Gasan Digital IT Complex" of geumchenogu, Seoul. 
Project prepare from 2007
Official public announcement about project beginnig June, 2010
Official public announcement about project cancelled July, 2012

*Below thread is landmark tower* of Geumcheon massive urban redevelopment project
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=556450&page=4&highlight=seoul
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=651553&highlight=geumcheon
Description about this project http://photohistory.tistory.com/11970
http://blog.daum.net/srkim23/185


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## geococcyx (Dec 27, 2011)

inno4321 said:


> *3. Seoul new mayor's Anti-development. He has right for project Approved!!!!*:bash:


What!? :?:weird:


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## citypia (Jan 9, 2005)

^^ If you read this article carefully, this plan has fallen due to bad situation of real estate market and strong opposition of the landowners.
*But seperate individual projects will be set up according to districts unit plan. *
Yes, whole massive project has fallen.
But it is NOT the end, because NEW realistic projects will come out soon.
My point is that this project is more like NOT cancelled but modified and adjusted accordingly. 

Can you notice why this project has to fall down? Even the landowners are against this project, not because of Seoul mayor.
Precisely, Geumcheon has the one of the lowest financial independence rate in Seoul. I mean, it is too much to work on such a enormous project alone.
It will be the big burden to citizens hno:


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

geococcyx said:


> What!? :?:weird:


^^ Mayor have a exclusive authority for permission all construction in Seoul city.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://news.kukinews.com/article/view.asp?page=1&gCode=kmi&arcid=0006291212&cp=nv

*"I will stop to built over 50floors around yongsan national park" said Seoul mayor.*

-Accordding to the today report mayor announced that against to built skyscraper around Yongsan National Park

Yongsan National Park is the project of redevelop the USA military site for national green park project.
-Yongsan National Park is almost same sized with Newyork central park. This project is going to Completion at 2014~2027. 

-Also to built skyscraper(over 50floors) in 180,000㎡ and make green park in 2,426,866㎡
Actually original plan was like that *First* To Develope USA military site for skyscrpaer and make a money *Second* With that money remove USA military troops(No offense.S.korea alliance with USA) to outside of Seoul and make national park.

-However yesterday seoul mayor announce that *anti development skyscraper* around park. He said "Luxury redsidece and skyscraper is not good for yongsan project."

-Ministry of land and transfer said "Mayor is highly absurd!(시 주장이 일고의 가치도 없다.) This plan *already pass last mayor*. Why he suddenly break to promise?" 
This project is national development project. Therefore all right belong to the "Ministry of land and transfer"

-Seoul mayor have no right for permission to built skyscraper around yongsan park. Only he can advice concern this project



Description about project
http://www.park.go.kr/board.board.gongji.twf
http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=sec&sid1=101&oid=014&aid=0002524706
http://blog.naver.com/hoony603?Redirect=Log&logNo=110140229329


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=sec&sid1=101&oid=003&aid=0004639870

*Stalled Parc1 resume 
Parc1 win the legal battle in the second round!*

Today Y22(which one is Parc1's Project Financing Vehicle) win against to "Tongilgyo" religious Group in a high court civil 12 part of seoul.
However "Tongilgyo" religious Group prepare the third round therefore construction resume is delay 9months.
Accordding to the report, *Probably Parc1 resume construction at the beginning of the next years* .:banana:

Add a supplementary explanation
-Parc1 is one of major three skyscrpaer project(with IFC Seoul / The Federation of Korean Industries Hall) in Yeuido of Seoul.
-"Tongilgyo" religious Group is land owner
-At the moment *Parc1 completion rate is 20%*. But Construction stopped by "Tongilgyo" religious Group's file a suit at last September, 2010


Description about project 
http://www.parc1.com/


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

* Rage Yongsan citizens set fire to SEOUL MAYOR's Photos.*

Accordding to the report, Seoul mayor's photos was burning with fire by Sebuichondong of Yongsan ,Seoul citizens.
Yesterday, Some rage citizens blame to seoul mayor with request for compensation as qucikly as possible in the demonstration.

Add a supplementary explanation
-IBD project is stalled due to delay compensation proceed. 
-Seoul mayor announced that IBD divide develope(not develope in citizens's residence area) 
*However citizens's banner* wrote with like that "Stop to divided develope! We are one"!

Below is report.
http://news1.kr/photos/203533
http://news1.kr/photos/203546


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

inno4321 said:


> I know you dear aquaticko very proffensional knowledge about korea. But you miss one point.
> Without chaebol Korea can not existed such like "at the moment economy advanced" .....


I know that South Korea couldn't have become an advanced country without the chaebol, but right now it is an advanced country, at least economically speaking. The GDP at purchasing power parity per capita is equal with Japan and most European countries. Korea is rich enough; it needs to work on improving social problems now. 

Rights for minorities, women, gays, social safety net for the poor and elderly, environmental sustainability--these are the issues that need attention now. And forces for conservatism, like the chaebol, won't do the country any good. Look at the effect they have on employment for young people. Because there are so few large companies that people want to work at, many people go without jobs, or get temporary and insecure work, because the chaebol know that they can pick and choose whomever they want. 

It is the conservative side of the country that keeps focusing on making Korea richer. If it wants to really be considered an advanced country, it cannot focus just on money. Social problems are an area in which South Korea can do much, much more to improve.


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## Kimiwind1184 (Feb 26, 2011)

aquaticko said:


> The GDP at purchasing power parity per capita is equal with Japan and most European countries. Korea is rich enough; it needs to work on improving social problems now.


It's not equal yet with Japan, but closing the gap though.

According to IMF, and as of 2011, Japan's PPP per capita is 34,700$, and Korea's is around 31,714$ only.

Korea is still better than Spain "30,626$", and Italy "30,464$" (according to the same source).


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

aquaticko said:


> I know that South Korea couldn't have become an advanced country without the chaebol, but right now it is an advanced country, at least economically speaking. The GDP at purchasing power parity per capita is equal with Japan and most European countries. Korea is rich enough; it needs to work on improving social problems now.
> 
> Rights for minorities, women, gays, social safety net for the poor and elderly, environmental sustainability--these are the issues that need attention now. And forces for conservatism, like the chaebol, won't do the country any good. Look at the effect they have on employment for young people. Because there are so few large companies that people want to work at, many people go without jobs, or get temporary and insecure work, because the chaebol know that they can pick and choose whomever they want.
> 
> It is the conservative side of the country that keeps focusing on making Korea richer. If it wants to really be considered an advanced country, it cannot focus just on money. Social problems are an area in which South Korea can do much, much more to improve.


^^ Really agree with your comment especially with Rights for minorities, women, gays, social safety. 




Kimiwind1184 said:


> It's not equal yet with Japan, but closing the gap though.
> 
> According to IMF, and as of 2011, Japan's PPP per capita is 34,700$, and Korea's is around 31,714$ only.
> 
> Korea is still better than Spain "30,626$", and Italy "30,464$" (according to the same source).


^^ Japan and Germany have a strong fundamental economy. Also I suprised with korea better than spain and italy. I didn't know that


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://news.hankooki.com/lpage/society/201207/h2012071221101821950.htm

*Hyundai&KIA Global Business Center project is Skeptical due to Seoul Mayor* 

- Accordding to the report Hyundai&KIA Global Business Center project is damaged by *Anti skyscraper policy* of seoul mayor.

- Actually Hyundai&KIA Global Business Center(535m) is going to bulit in Ducksum of Seoul. Ducksum is beside Han River.

- However, *535m* building cannot constructed due to Seoul's new ASP(Anti Skyscraper Policy)

- Seoul's new ASP strictly prohibited to construction *over 35Floors* Beside Han river.


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## citypia (Jan 9, 2005)

^^

Inno4321 doesn't translate the article in accurate ways and distorts it from the point of view of his political opinions.
Yes, he is adding his personal opinions to the article. 

Anyhow, after all, everything ended up putting all blame on Seoul mayor. That's your goal? :lol:


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## citypia (Jan 9, 2005)

This is my summary of the article(of course, not included my own personal opinions)

The article says that there are controversies that Hyundai & KIA Global Business Center project is too highly benefical for the only one compamy, developer, of course Hyundae (business favors). 
Therefore, Seoul city hall reconsiders the project according to new guideline of riveside of HAN river which prevent Seoul from the improper urban development (especially about supertalls) But even the new guideline is not established yet. So they set to work for the new guidelne.

Gangseo district office and Seoul city hall had meetings and discussed for the progress of this project many times.

Also, Hyundae currently conducts the negociation under the table to narrow the gap between different opinions.


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## citypia (Jan 9, 2005)

inno4321 said:


> - However, *535m* building cannot constructed due to Seoul's new ASP(Anti Skyscraper Policy)
> 
> - Seoul's new ASP strictly prohibited to construction *over 35Floors* Beside Han river.


Look, what inno4321 said!

The new guideline is not even established yet but he already concluded the counstruction can't be being built. :lol:

Don't get me wrong.
I am a big fan of skyscrapers. That's why I am here since 2002, almost 10 years.
But it has to be proper urban development for everyone, the pubulc interests and evnvornments for the next generation.
Inno, I notice *Your Signature*, *stop developing Boracy island!* Why are you against it? What's the big difference between Seoul's envorment and Boracy's?


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## Kimiwind1184 (Feb 26, 2011)

citypia said:


> ^^
> 
> Inno4321 doesn't translate the article in accurate ways and distorts it from the point of view of his political opinions.
> Yes, he is adding his personal opinions to the article.
> ...


Again, I don't understand why mods didn't close this thread yet. *Inno4321*, If you want skyscrapers to be built everywhere in Seoul go build them yourself with your own money and no one will blame you. This is ridiculous, some people think investing in building skyscrapers is as easy as investing in buying your own pants..


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://www.seoulfn.com/news/articleView.html?idxno=140710

*Geumcheon of Seoul massive urban redevelopment project Resume with downsize project.*

-Geumcheon of Seoul massive urban redevelopment project is cancelled by LH.

-However resume project with *downsize* by Geumcheon district goverment of seoul.

-Accordding to the report, Geumcheon redevelopment project is have a huge *vacant lot* such like a "대한전선(Thahan electtronic wire factocy)" "롯데알루미늄(lotte aluminum factocy)".

Therefore resume project redevelope to a vacant lot with complex shopping mall and apartment.

- The end of this years beging outline design. Design result will be public *September, 2013*. :banana:

*Summary*
This project will be downsize : Continue redevelop to vacant lot area(factory), Abandon citizens residence area.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://news.mk.co.kr/newsRead.php?year=2012&no=543118
*
Dang-San and Yang-Pyong skyscraper project cancelled by Seoul mayor. *

-According to the report, Dang-San and Yang-Pyong's strategy redevelope project official cancelled by Seoul mayor

-This is third times which cancelled among *9 strategy redevelope* project in Seoul. 

-This Dang-San and Yang-Pyong cancelled is basically an extension of Mayor's "*Anti Han RiverRenaissance Policy*"

-Dang-San and Yang-Pyong is very slumism area which selected as strategy redevelope area for improve residence environment.

-According to the report, Some expert said "Project is cancelled but many small vila and multiplex housing begin to construction. It is very *worry about development thoughtless for the environment*."

*Description about project*
http://blog.naver.com/ganayp?Redirect=Log&logNo=150110887505


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## brianmoon85 (Oct 14, 2006)

obviously someone really doesn't give a "sh*t" about other people's opinions and loves contradiction :lol:


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://www.edaily.co.kr/news/NewsRead.edy?SCD=DC12&newsid=02122166599632240&DCD=A00203&OutLnkChk=Y
^^

*Hyundai & Kia Global Business Center stalled by Seoul mayor and Hyundai CEO.*


-According to the report, Hyundai & Kia Global Business Center *stalled for an indefinite period.*

-Hyundai CEO said "Now very crisis moment, especially *World fincial crisis*. Also construction is not major division in Hyundai Group. Therefore it is wise to reconsideration about Global Business Center in Doksum of Seoul"

-According to the report, this stalled decision influenced by New *seoul mayor's Anti development policy*.
One month ago Seoul announce for "*reconsideration about skyscraper project in Doksom Hyundai*". This is very pessimistic influence on Hyundai Doksum project.

*Description about project*
- Hyundai & Kia Global Business Center is going to built over 500m in Doksum of Seoul
- This Center used for global motors R&D center and open space for seoul citizens.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://media.daum.net/economic/estate/newsview?newsid=20120907140108137

Above photos's banner prints with "Conference for the problems and countermeasure concerns the changed Seoul's city infrastucture project policy"

*Stalled Seoul's SOC(social overhead capital) project damaged to seoul citizens with 7 millions US dollors and 1000 jobs lost by annual.*
Seoul council held for "*city infrastructure* public hearing" conference in seoul city hall annex.

- "Recently Many huge project cancelled or stalled in Seoul city. That is very bad situation for seoul city's future. Recently many SOC project cancelled or stalled by influence *Anti-development policy(my supplement)*. Based on my reserch That is damged to seoul citiezens 7 millions US dollors and 1000 Jobs lost by annual. Therefore it is very important allocated budget in SOC project." said Lee buk nam researcher of CERIK's construction economy reserch institute of korea  

- "*Seoul council must request to mayor continues develope project in seoul without stalled or cancellation*. Also request allocated budget on SOC" said by LEE SANG HO of GS construction


-They reuest 6 items for salvation Seoul
△ Construction new a drain pipe △Expanded amount of the existing facilities-a drain pipe △Huge rain water retaining facility(like TOKYO) △Public labray and culture infra △ Attracted Forign investment △Conventioan city


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://www.edaily.co.kr/news/NewsRead.edy?SCD=DF13&newsid=01751526599661760&DCD=A00106&OutLnkChk=Y

*Seoulite land mark tower project resume*

Accordding to the report seoulite re-invite public participation until next years.
This decision came from not by seoul city but by Central goverment of S. korea.
However seoulite will be under 100floors. "*Already Lotte super tower and Yongsan IBD is confirm landmark tower*. Therefore another landmark tower is less needs. So seoul goverment will *not* stick with *133floors*." said Seoul goverment economy departure concerns

In my opinions maybe 70~100floors will be built.
What a impresse comment is Seoul goverment reckon Yongsan IBD 620m as confirm landmark!!!!!


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## KillerZavatar (Jun 22, 2010)

at least Seoul Light seems to be coming back, too bad it will be under 100 floors. i hope we can still get a 450m+ building with it 

and inno, could you post exactly the same post in the seoul lite thread?


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

KillerZavatar said:


> at least Seoul Light seems to be coming back, too bad it will be under 100 floors. i hope we can still get a 450m+ building with it
> 
> and inno, could you post exactly the same post in the seoul lite thread?


^^
Actually I try this new post exactly the same post in the seoul lite thread. But unfourtunatley the seoul lite thread was "closed" which as cancelled thread DN archived. So I can not post anymore in the seoul lite thread. Therefore I post in mythread here.

Right this is good news but Old seoulite company who "kick out" by seoul goverment complain about Seoul's "resume". 
Because they already suggested 100floors(plus another 70floors) landmark tower. I can't understand why seoul goverment rejected "Old 100floors and suddenly resume with Below 100floors.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

*SAEWON Green Avenue project official cancelled by Seoul Mayor Park wonsun*

SAEWON Green Avenue project is connect Chankonggung(UNESCO World Heritage) to NAMSAN(namsan mountain) with very wide green park and skyscrapers building.

However yesterday park won sun announced that official cancelled.

Seoul mayor park wonsun is KING OF KINGS VANDALISM!

This is at the moment SAEWON photos
http://blog.naver.com/cannonfort?Redirect=Log&logNo=50152640121

:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:


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## Caleb15 (May 8, 2012)

Why does the mayor of Seoul keep canceling all these projects? it doesnt make sense


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

Caleb15 said:


> Why does the mayor of Seoul keep canceling all these projects? it doesnt make sense


He plant rice instead of opera house. He is a king of vandalism!

Today Seoul mayor's decision.

*-Hyundai& Kia global Head office in duksum of Seoul cancelled by seoul mayor.

-Yongsan IBD project almost default by seoul mayor's citizens survey.

-Over 35 floors building can to built beside han river.(Only except YONGSAN/SANGAM DMC)*


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

sorry deleted


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## Aenelia (Jun 13, 2009)

I dont really understand why Seoul's Mayor does not support the SAEWON Green Avenue project. It has nothing to do with Skyscrapers, au contraire, for someone who loves to plant rice on an island in the middle of the city instead of building a world-class opera house, this seems quiet contradictory to me...as this project was eco-friendly and promoting more nature inside downtown instead of massive concrete buildings...


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2013/06/13/2013061300188.html?news_Head1
^^

Seoul mayor cancelled ICE STADIUM in nowon district of seoul
Nowon citizen still request promised ice stadium.

-KIM YUN A who Olympic Goldmeadalist's sensation boom in korea. 
-With this trend 3 years ago seoul mayor(mr oh sae hoon) promised ice center make in nowon disitrict.
-However new seoul mayor delayed approved plan
-Yesterday suddenly cancelled project.
-Nowon citizen rage they ask ice satdium.
-Nowon lost chance for ice skate mecca with "kim yuna stadium and push up nowon district's awareness
-"*Seoul city come and go with Seoul mayor's utter without long term expect! It is wrong that cancelled project Without proper reason Even citizens want!!!" NOWON OFFCIE concerns said *


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## Highcliff (May 4, 2006)

dear friend inno4321....
will this project be built?
with all respect...I dislike a bit...








http://www.imobiliariaemribeiraopre...dio-Que-Lembra-Explosao-das-Torres-Gemeas-372


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

Highcliff said:


> dear friend inno4321....
> will this project be built?
> with all respect...I dislike a bit...
> 
> ...


^^
I don't know whether that will built or not.

But this project is too huge to cancelled. Also some positive action begin for project resume.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://www.hani.co.kr/arti/culture/culture_general/593538.html

*Lenzo piano's KT head office Stalled by Seoul city.*

-New KT(KOREA TELECOM) head office is design by Lenzo Piano.
-This building is 82m height and huge empty open space at 1~4floor.
-But Seoul reject this plan due to height-limited over 70m.
-If accept seoul's new regulation, then building must reduce height..it is means *messed up* Lenzo's creative design(open space).
-KT complain for irrational regulation.
-*So KT seriously consider for cancelled project itself.*

What a funny it is.
It must approved. Becuase Seoul CBD's regulation height was 90m height.
Actually too many New project and building is around 80~90m(this regulation still effective since 60 years).

But suddenly new gangster cut the height by his tasted.
*New Seoul mayor was put teeth in the new regulation on height.*
(Not only CBD but also entired around Seoul)

I worry about disharmony between new building(below 70m) and Old building(below 90m) in CBD.
Really i hope export New seoul mayor to abroad.
Is there Anycity welcom this guy? free!!
:bash::bash::bash:


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## Sister Ray (Apr 22, 2006)

inno4321 said:


> It must approved. Becuase Seoul CBD's regulation height was 90m height.


The CBD height limit is only 90m? I'm sure many buildings must exceed this height in JongnoGu and JungGu? Jongno Tower, Mirae Asset bldgs, SK Tower must be all 100m+ right?


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

I have to say, I don't really understand his objection to this one. I think I remember hearing that it'd be 20-30 stories tall, so not that tall, and the site isn't actually near Gyeongbokgung, but a few blocks away. Not to mention that it would've been great to see some Korean architectural traditions incorporated into a high-rise, and hanok are a wonderful Korean architectural tradition to draw inspiration from (if they did a good job of it). And, of course, one of the things people like most about Seoul is the juxtaposition of old palaces and soaring skyscrapers. 

This one seems obvious to me.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

aquaticko said:


> I have to say, I don't really understand his objection to this one. I think I remember hearing that it'd be 20-30 stories tall, so not that tall, and the site isn't actually near Gyeongbokgung, but a few blocks away. Not to mention that it would've been great to see some Korean architectural traditions incorporated into a high-rise, and hanok are a wonderful Korean architectural tradition to draw inspiration from (if they did a good job of it). And, of course, one of the things people like most about Seoul is the juxtaposition of old palaces and soaring skyscrapers.
> 
> This one seems obvious to me.


^^
Right aquaticko. 
It is only 4~5floors hotel. And donated huge space for public musium and park space. Futhermore design with hanok stlye for harmonized with Gyeongbokgung palace.
Even President of korea ask for permission this hotel for NATIONAL unique hotel.This site very close from CHONGWADAE(president white house) So if this hotel to built, then it would used as national reception hotel. 
But reject.....hno: 

http://article.joins.com/news/article/article.asp?total_id=12685375&ctg=1200


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

HYUNDAI&KIA GLOBAL BUSINESS CENTER(*below call as GBC*) rejected by seoul mayor.
Some korean member *lying about this FACT*. So I'm report OFFICIAL KOREAN NEWS

Below is my poor translation about journal.


http://www.seongdongnews.com/news/articleView.html?idxno=8911
^^
“서울시는 지역 간 형평성이 결여된 ‘한강 지구별 가이드라인’을 즉각 수정하여, 삼표레미콘부지에 초고층 건축물 건립이 가능하도록 서울시 도시기본계획에 포함하라”고 촉구하는 결의문을 발표했다."
*Seongdonggu council*(district of GBC) official *ask resolution letter for permission GBC*.
"*Seoul city must immediatley allow GBC's construction with abolition area discrimination between others district*"
“서울시는 한강변 일대 건축물의 층수를 최고 35층 이하로 제한하는 내용 등의 ‘한강 지구별 가이드라인’을 마련하고, 한강변 관리 기본방향에서 우리의 의지와는 무관하게 삼표레미콘 부지의 초고층 개발을 제한하려고 하고 있다”고 밝혔다.
Seoul city limited 35floors below beside HAN river with so called Han gang control regulation. This regulation disregard *our(seongdongu citizen)* will&dream
“쾌적한 주거환경 조성과 지역발전을 열망하는 성동구민의 염원을 저버린 처사로, 정책의 일관성과 지역 간 형평성이 결여된 계획안”이라고 지적하며, “계획을 즉각 수정하여, 삼표레미콘 공장부지에 글로벌비즈니스센터 건립을 조속히 허용해 줄 것”을 강력히 촉구했다.
This kind of regulation disregard against citizens's hope for live in clean environment and local development. This regulation area discrimination between others district" 
Therefor plan must modified for construction permission for GBC!

또한, “서울시에서 계획안대로 사업을 추진한다면, 성동구의회는 가능한 모든 수단과 방법을 동원하여, 성동구민과 함께 강력히 대처할 것”이라고 덧붙였다.
Moreover If seoul city gear up with regulation Seongdonggu district council and seongdonggu citizens fight against SEOUL CITY with *by fair means or foul* 



http://news.hankooki.com/lpage/economy/201304/h2013043003355321540.htm
^^
현대차그룹이 서울 성동구 성수동 삼표래미콘 공장 부지(2만7,830㎡)에 지하 8층, 지상 110층 규모의 GBC를 짓겠다고 발표한 것은 지난 2007년. 글로벌 완성차 기업으로 성장하려면 자동차산업 마케팅과 연구개발(R&D) 허브가 필요하다는 판단에서였다. 인근 지역이 뉴타운 지구로 지정되는 등 순항하는 듯했던 이 사업은 박원순 서울시장 취임 이후 상황이 180도 바뀌었다. 지난해 4월 국토해양부가 주거ㆍ상업 등 용도변경을 쉽게 용이하게 할 수 있도록 국토계획법을 개정하자 서울시가 초고층 빌딩의 무분별한 난립을 막는 자체 가이드라인을 마련하면서 제동을 건 것. 이 가이드라인에 따르면 한강변에 35층 이상 초고층 건물의 신축은 제한된다.
HYUNDAI MOTORS official announced for construction GBC since 2007. Site area(2만7,830㎡) 8 basement floors 110 floors................skip.......................*But suddenly GBC plan stalled(situation 180 degree changed) since Mr Park won sun who Seoul mayor elected*..skip.......Han river only 35floors allow....


http://www.sdnews.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=2486

^^
Public hearing for permission GBC in Seongdonggu disrict!!!
LOOK EVEN SAME PARTY with seoul mayor ..MR CHOI JAE CHON who congressman participated in 

As you show above many citizen many politician ask GBC tower construction but seoul mayor didn't answer them. *Is it DEMOCRACY?*
Not only these news paper but also many news about GBC.. 
If these news is not enough for truth then ask me I will translation other korean news.

*Please don't deceive other memeber who can not read KOREAN NEWS PAPER. 
HYUNDAI 110FLOOR TOWER stalled not by world financial crisis but by seoul mayor*


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://economy.hankooki.com/lpage/economy/201401/e2014011517235070070.htm

^^
*Today HYUNDAI MOTORS OFFICIAL ANNOUNCED GIVE UP 110FLOOR IN DUCKSUM OF SEOUL PROJECT. 
DUE TO SEOUL MAYOR'S ANTI SKYSCRAPER POLICY
*

*Project cancelled block by seoul mayor's anti skyscraper policy.
20 thousands new job
$4 billions economy effect disapperas
Hyundai looking for another place
What a greatest mayor he is don't like a company's investment his own city!!

*:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:bash::bash::bash:bash::bash::bash:bash::bash::bash:


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## humptydumpty7 (Nov 25, 2013)

Bad news! 

But maybe they can find a way to build the headquarter somewhere else, not directly at han river.

Or maybe Hyundai can buy the land of the failed Yongsan IBD and build it there. They need money for paying debts, and Hyunday needs a tower, so its a win-win situation


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

humptydumpty7 said:


> Bad news!
> 
> But maybe they can find a way to build the headquarter somewhere else, not directly at han river.
> 
> Or maybe Hyundai can buy the land of the failed Yongsan IBD and build it there. They need money for paying debts, and Hyunday needs a tower, so its a win-win situation


^^
You make a sense comment.

In my opinnions GBC will be built in Sangam seoul lite site or Yongsan IBD.
Yongsan is best place for GBC. But accordding today korean news file a suit and legal battle begin at 21 JAN.
They say legal battle spent at least 5 years until finished.
So Sangam seoul lite is possible. But that case hyundai pay money for buying land. from seoul city 

Bytheway SEOUL need NEWS mayor for improved except this irrational guy


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## Denjiro (Jun 18, 2012)

What a stubborn mayor, bloody hell! How could he?!!


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## cestlavie24 (Oct 2, 2013)

Seoul gov had a bid debt problem( over 270 billion $). so mayor park when was a candidate, he promised decrease the debt(270billion $ -> 200 billion $)
he need to break some project like a opera house in han river(over7bilion $), now he decrease the debt 20billion $.
DDP spend over 4billion $(when planed it was 0.9 billion $), Go Chuk Dome Arena spend 2.4billion $(increase 1.9billion $) it still constructing.... 
it was former mayor's plan, he always didn't concerned money...

but I aree with why don't give a permisson for korean air's hotel .

YBD's fail is not mayor's falut.. 95% of problems from the companies who want build YBD. they don't have enough money for that. so they broken...


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

cestlavie24 said:


> Seoul gov had a bid debt problem( over 270 billion $). so mayor park when was a candidate, he promised decrease the debt(270billion $ -> 200 billion $)
> he need to break some project like a opera house in han river(over7bilion $), now he decrease the debt 20billion $.
> DDP spend over 4billion $(when planed it was 0.9 billion $), Go Chuk Dome Arena spend 2.4billion $(increase 1.9billion $) it still constructing....
> it was former mayor's plan, he always didn't concerned money...
> ...


^^
Appreciated for you comment.
I'm glad talk with who interesting about seoul's future.
Let proceed much more deep topic with me.

Can I ask some thing?

*1.* You confused "billion" with millions.
billions is huge money it is 1조원 korean won.
So you have to modified 270 billion $ ==>27 billion/others example same DDP cost is not 4billion. You know Lotte tower's over 500m high construction cost is 3.5 billions. So how can DDP cost is 4 billion? 

*2.* You said mayor park promised reduce seoul's debt to 270billion $ -> 200 billion $
Do you know that? Accordding to the parliamentary inspection of the administration about  1 billions increasedsince he begin working as seoul mayor.
In contrast, Seoul debt increased 1 billions! Is he keep the promised?

*3.* If mayor park want reduce debt of seoul. How can he do it?
He steal money from bank or make a money from sky something like that?
Only way is get TAX from company which located in SEOUL city!
HYUNDAI want to invest 2 billions in SEOUL and construction HEAD office in seoul.
But mayor park reject HYUNDAI's suggestions.(only reject reason is building is TOO HIGH!!)
Accordding to the report If HYUNDAI GBC bult in seoul, seoul can received 2~4 billions as effect on production inducement. And MAKE A new JOB 20 thousands in seoul!

*4.* LG want to built Global R&D center in MAKOG . But seoul mayor only HALF land sale to LG . LG try to persuade mayor for sale whole land.(for accomodate whole staff in MAGOK center) 
But he didn't. After one years pass.. MAKOG land didn't sale and nobody want to buy land. You know that? What he do? Mayor park go to CHINA for saling MAGOK land!! Even LG is korea company.

In short, how can seoul mayor reduce debt with reject company's investment plan his own city?
*Don't you think it is self-contradiction?*


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## hater (Aug 1, 2011)

inno4321 said:


> http://economy.hankooki.com/lpage/economy/201401/e2014011517235070070.htm
> 
> ^^
> *Today HYUNDAI MOTORS OFFICIAL ANNOUNCED GIVE UP 110FLOOR IN DUCKSUM OF SEOUL PROJECT.
> ...



why is he against a privately funded project that will create jobs?


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## cestlavie24 (Oct 2, 2013)

inno4321 said:


> ^^
> Appreciated for you comment.
> I'm glad talk with who interesting about seoul's future.
> Let proceed much more deep topic with me.
> ...


i made mistake again. 27biliion is right.... totally mistake at counting. 

mayor park accepted allmost LG's proposal
http://news.mt.co.kr/mtview.php?no=2013050213411507037&type=1&VML

and.. i think MOU is no meaning. it can be break any time. do you remember universal studio in korea's MOU?? it still nothing happen..

international funding is not bad.. every province want intl funding and searching that... 

busan LCT also connect with china(but i think it is really terrible..why another country get it!!)... jeju island also love chinese funding... some chinese corp will construct first skyscraper in jeju... 
how about that? is that wrong?? 
song do district also always want big funding from abroad... 
Gyeonggi-do want 2,400,000,000,000 won from intl funding in this year...

debt decrease 1,000,000,000,000 won. he still try... any other mayor(especially former two) alway increase debt.. he's period is not end... i know he can't decrease 7bil $ in his period...anyway he tried and got some success...
i don't want default crisis in Seoul.. so i vote for park 

i don't know why former mayor Oh didn't give a permmision for Hyundai..
even though he and his party was big. they had a time and power for change the raw for hyundai like president do for lotte super tower... but did not.. if he done, mayor park cannot stop (like still constructing GoChuk Dome, and finish DPP)...
but why???? how do you think about that??


----------



## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

cestlavie24 said:


> mayor park accepted allmost LG's proposal
> http://news.mt.co.kr/mtview.php?no=2013050213411507037&type=1&VML
> i don't know why former mayor Oh didn't give a permmision for Hyundai..
> even though he and his party was big.





Dear cestlavie24 Thanks for your reply.

*First.*mayor park accepted allmost LG's proposal*(<==your question)*
I'm arranged
*1.* LG suggested R&D center in MAGOK. ===>*2.* Mayor park reject LG's suggestion. Only half land to sale to LG.===>*3.* After 1 years pass nobody want to buy MAGOK remain land==>*4.* suddenly mayor park go to abroad(CHINA) for sale MAGOK land===> *5.* But NO BODY BUYING MAGOK LAND from mayor park!!===>*6.* Almost 2 years spent Park sale remain MAGOK LAND TO LG(this is your news link).
How stupid thing it is. *During mayor park spent 2years LG's R&D CENTER project stalled. Are you think it is rational *

*Second.* I don't know why former mayor Oh didn't give a permmision for Hyundai.. *(<==your question)*
You so poor knowledge about city permission progress. This is Not NK but SK. SK need first changed law before get permission.

Former mayor try to permission HYUNDAI tower so *first* he changed seoul regulation(so called *대규모부지 활성화법*) and waiting from permission MINISTRY OF NATIONAL LAND &TRANSFER. 
Finally permission given at april 2012(mayor park time!)
How can he allow HYUNDAI TOWER's construction without permission from MINISTRY OF NATIONAL LAND &TRANSFER.

Are Understand? 
Are you need more teaching about korea law from me? *This thread* not for your classroom for learning korea law OR debt of seoul problem but *for cancelled &stalled project in seoul*.

*I respectfully ask you to that you go FIRST LEARNING KOREAN LAW. And then talk with me. Thanks*


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

New Seoul city mayor election
Emergency research about an approval rating each candidate. 

Glad Mr jong mong jun 41.3%
Now seoul mayor won sun fxxk 35%
We can expect freedom of seoul from dictatorship 

:banana::banana::banana::banana:


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## KillerZavatar (Jun 22, 2010)

this certainly is a depressing thread hno:


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

New seoul mayor candidate lee hae hun suggest *RESUME sanwon green avenue project*!!!

SAEWON GREEN AVENUE project was cancelled by seoul mayor but new candidate lee suggest RESUME PROJECT!!

She will make this OLD SLUM place to green forest avenue which is 90m wide, 1km length to connect between world heritage palace and namsan tower:banana::banana::banana:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=96575361&postcount=71


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## cestlavie24 (Oct 2, 2013)

inno4321 said:


> New seoul mayor candidate lee hae hun suggest *RESUME sanwon green avenue project*!!!
> 
> SAEWON GREEN AVENUE project was cancelled by seoul mayor but new candidate lee suggest RESUME PROJECT!!
> 
> ...


 
i wanna put some more story..

first, Cultural Heritage Administration recommended "this project buildings height must not over 55m". becasue JONGMYO "the UNESCO World Cultural Heritage". Mayor Oh planded height was 126m. at the first step he got trebuble. So this project lost business value. and then almost stopped..
of course mayor par fianlly cancelled and nowaday he suggested new plan..
that include... reparing plan the Sewoon shopping center(very old and lost commercial supremacy so nobody use this shoping center...) . 
becasue this shoping center has historic value..
but i cannot agree with his plan. it will not good for dealer in the shopping center..additionally this building is so ugly..--;; don't look like have historic value


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

cestlavie24 said:


> i wanna put some more story..
> 
> first, Cultural Heritage Administration recommended "this project buildings height must not over 55m". becasue JONGMYO "the UNESCO World Cultural Heritage". Mayor Oh planded height was 126m. at the first step he got trebuble. So this project lost business value. and then almost stopped..
> of course mayor par fianlly cancelled and nowaday he suggested new plan..
> ...


Lol u Begin to speak rationally. AGREE WITH U

U say right. this building ugly and no value for historic meaning.
If this tower have historic value then CHeonggaechun'OVERPASS have historical value.
Why not OVERPASS of cheongaechon. That pass same aged with Sewoon shopping center.

This place must return to PUBLIC CITIZENS with GREEN FOREST AVENUE. right now. no need ugly concrete building in the very heart of SEOUL CBD.


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## cestlavie24 (Oct 2, 2013)

inno4321 said:


> Lol u Begin to speak rationally. AGREE WITH U
> 
> U say right. this building ugly and no value for historic meaning.
> If this tower have historic value then CHeonggaechun'OVERPASS have historical value.
> ...


but if sewoon shoping center had original lay out..(i can not find the image, ) .. it could have historic value

anyway.
this project also will meet problem like a yongsan IBD, Seoul lite in DMC
many dealers don't want move somewhere... they saw what happen in 'garden five shoping center'. only very big reward can move them. aslo too
many dealers and building owners connect with this plan. so everything will be very difficult
and still the low height is the issue. 
i'm sure nobody can persuade Cultural Heritage Administration.


----------



## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

cestlavie24 said:


> but if sewoon shoping center had original lay out..(i can not find the image, ) .. it could have historic value
> 
> anyway.
> this project also will meet problem like a yongsan IBD, Seoul lite in DMC
> ...


^^
hey buddy.


^^
*Among 218 owner 60% citizens agree with UNITED develop plan*
Look above newspaper photos They demonstrated in front of city hall against seoul mayor who cancelled sawon green avenue project.


^^
And read above news paper article

I just translated headline below
Due to unstable plan sawon shopping center land price drop to 수천만원($ 1 or 30,000).
This is due to delay of 통합개발(united green avenue plan).
"*Nobody come to sawon old building. Is it booming again by REMODELING? I think IT IS MUCH MORE GOOD FOR US to demolished sawong building and RECEIVED COMPENSATION.*" said OWNER of L selamic

You don't know about fact!

They want to green avenue. This is citizens's request mayor is dictatorship OK?


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## cestlavie24 (Oct 2, 2013)

inno4321 said:


> ^^
> hey buddy.
> 
> 
> ...


 i said this shoping center is dead... so need destroy..

but useally compensation for removal follows officially assessed land
price. but building owners and shop onwers want market price.. it will make long dispute. if building owners and shop onwers who want total redevelopment can not get enough or more money, aslo can turn their mind 
and tenant dealers impossible get enough money for move(becasue fore gift will not accept..just small money can get for move) we know what will happen to them.. 

that is normal in korea... i just talk about everyday life when start redevelopment.. 
united green avenue plan(not just this plan, every plan) also can not avoid.. these situation.. 

only very big money can solve this puzzle.. who can bring this money in korea?? and who can defeat final boss(Cultural Heritage Administration)?


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://www.mt.co.kr/view/mtview.php?type=1&no=2014032715102165862&outlink=1

Mr hyun oh suk who *the deputy prime minister* of south korea said "*It is very unfortunate about that (seoul mayor) didn't allow hotel construction project*"

Now KOREA AIRLINE try to built 6 dgree luxury hotel beside KUNGBOK PALACE.(Now seoul very shortage of hotel supply)
*Even president of korea *Miss park gun hae modified irrational regulation which didn't allow hotel to built beside school.
But seoul still didn't allow hotel construction of KOREA AIRLINE.
THEREFORE the deputy prime minister express worry about seoul's *anti develop policy*.

About hotel project Please Check above thread No #102


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://www.hankyung.com/news/app/newsview.php?aid=2014040632431

*"Seoul mayor park won sung defame&damage to yongsan ibd project"* said mr jung mong jun who major candidate of seoul mayor election in 2014.

mr jung mong jun said "mayor of seoul mr park won sung *TAKE THE LEAD *IN damage yongsan ibd project's investment quality!"
and said more "If want project continues, then it is very important to preserved quality of investment. But yongsan project cancelled due to mr park,who is in charge in project, was take the lead in damage in yonsan project."

And he public promised 
"if i became mayor of seoul, then* i will resume yongsan project* with 3~4 divided gradually(included sebuechondong).


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

Since 2004 ...10 years spent project at last dismissed!! 
This project very important for seoul. because this area is very poor and slummy&old area and important for strategy for seoul's IT industry
but seoul mayor suddenly suggest if 30% citizens disagree this project then cancelled.
*67.5% garibong citizens request project is need and agree to built skyscraper* but 32.5%vote opposite. Is this democracy?
At last Garibong project OFFICIAL disappear 
Again seoul mayor success for RUIN skyscraper project in seoul city:bash:
seoul become slummy and slummy day by day. terrible!


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## korea2002 (Nov 24, 2007)

inno4321 said:


> Since 2004 ...10 years spent project at last dismissed!!
> This project very important for seoul. because this area is very poor and slummy&old area and important for strategy for seoul's IT industry
> but seoul mayor suddenly suggest if 30% citizens disagree this project then cancelled.
> *67.5% garibong citizens request project is need and agree to built skyscraper* but 32.5%vote opposite. Is this democracy?
> ...


okay. I saw recent information about this project,but I can't believe and imagine this news...............................


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

^^
At last Gurongmaul 구룡마을dismiss by seoul mayor.

This is slummy illegal houses. it located nearby gangnam rich area. Since 2011 designated as redevelop project. but seoul mayor fight with gangnam chief mayor.

at last the end. hno:


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## Seoul_Korea (Aug 14, 2013)

inno4321 said:


> ^^
> At last Gurongmaul 구룡마을dismiss by seoul mayor.
> 
> This is slummy illegal houses. it located nearby gangnam rich area. Since 2011 designated as redevelop project. but seoul mayor fight with gangnam chief mayor.
> ...


I CAN'T BELIEVE! MY GOSH, WHY IS HE SO FUCKING STUPID?!


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## Highcliff (May 4, 2006)

inno4321, is this the unique slum in seoul?
are they going to demolish?


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

Seoul_Korea said:


> I CAN'T BELIEVE! MY GOSH, WHY IS HE SO FUCKING STUPID?!


^^
AGREE 



Highcliff said:


> inno4321, is this the unique slum in seoul?
> are they going to demolish?


EXACTLY This is last slum in seoul(all of them is illegal house since 1960~70)
they built house illegally in the middle mountain. 

But though they are illegal can't demolish by government force.

so *they have a right to get new apartment* when those site redevelop.(this is unfair)

bytheway seoul have lot of slum area Galibong and others poor class district.
my home town too.


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## apinamies (Sep 1, 2010)

Are Seoul mayor really anti-development guy? I can't believe that megacity like Seoul can have such people in charge.


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## Azrain98 (Nov 27, 2011)

didn't government try make the place as a tourist attraction ? it can shows that this is where the only slum can found in seoul lol...


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## cestlavie24 (Oct 2, 2013)

Seoul_Korea said:


> I CAN'T BELIEVE! MY GOSH, WHY IS HE SO FUCKING STUPID?!


seoul city gov and gangnam gu district office want develop

here is one of expensive area for houses.. so every people of there had

different goals..

then failed make one opinion so they passed final date for make kind of raw for develop

so..this area start first step again

big money made stupid situation..

not only seoul gov had responsibility gangnam gu also had same responsibility


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## humptydumpty7 (Nov 25, 2013)

Interesting article about *failed urban planning in Seoul*: http://www.asiapundits.com/7-urban-wastelands-seoul/

*The 7 urban wastelands in Seoul*










^^ Yongsan IBD



















^^ Magok (near Gimpo airport)











^^ Deoksugung Seonwonjeonteo 











^^ The “Golden Plot” of Sogong-dong











^^ next to Gyeongbokgung palace (hotel should have been build there but it was not allowed by seoul mayor)











^^ Insadong (one of the main tourist areas)











^^ Yongsan District 4 (development started recently, after a long time)

Source and full article: http://www.asiapundits.com/7-urban-wastelands-seoul/


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## cestlavie24 (Oct 2, 2013)

humptydumpty7 said:


> Interesting article about *failed urban planning in Seoul*: http://www.asiapundits.com/7-urban-wastelands-seoul/
> 
> *The 7 urban wastelands in Seoul*
> 
> ...


 magok aleady started..

seonwonjeon will restore as a part of duksoo palce. this area is not for redeveloping

samsung bought insadong area. seoul gov and samsung making plan now how redeveloping..


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## Sister Ray (Apr 22, 2006)

Ha, I see. I always wondered what was happening behind that construction fence in Insadong. Turns out nothing was happening. The site is a lot larger than I expected.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

^^
OFFICIAL TODAY NEWS DONGBU TERMINAL redeveolp project at last disappear *due to anti development seoul mayor policy*.

Sinsaegyo company suggest redevelop old DONGBU TERMINAL of ganbok, but seoul government ask to changed plan for donation.
At last Sinsaegyo company announce official give up project.

*So from now on those land will be remain as "deserted slum"*:bash:



Azrain98 said:


> didn't government try make the place as a tourist attraction ? it can shows that this is where the only slum can found in seoul lol...


^^
Actually not only....there is lot of slum are in seoul all around due to seoul mayor major policy is "ANTI DEVELOPMENT"

I'm going to update those disappear project and anti development policy of seoul mayor. step by step introduce. I assure you will be surprised


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## cestlavie24 (Oct 2, 2013)

inno4321 said:


> ^^
> OFFICIAL TODAY NEWS DONGBU TERMINAL redeveolp project at last disappear *due to anti development seoul mayor policy*.
> 
> Sinsaegyo company suggest redevelop old DONGBU TERMINAL of ganbok, but seoul government ask to changed plan for donation.
> ...




you shows wrong map.. that is wrong location. 

시는 지난 2012년 공고한 물류기본계획 내 화물터미널 재정비 사업의 일환으로 동부화물터미널 등 3개 노후 터미널 현대화 사업을 진행해 왔다. 시는 동부화물터미널, 한국화물터미널 서부트럭터미널 등 물류시설이 시설 노후화로 주변과 부조화를 이룬다고 보고 이를 재정비하는 내용이 담긴 물류기본계획을 세운바 있다. 

부지 소유주인 신세계는 2009년 협상대상자로 선정된뒤 2010년 도시관례계획 시설 해지를 요청하고 상업시설을 짓는 것을 골자로 한 사업제안서를 낸 바 있다. 시는 물류기본계획 상 터미널 등 일정 물동량이 확보되는 물류시설을 유지하는 형태로 사업제안서 보완을 요청했지만, 신세계가 이를 받아들이지 않은 것이다. 신세계 관계자는 “입지상의 문제로 그만 둔것으로 알고 있다”면서, “현행 도시계획안에서 개발 검토를 하고 있다”고 말했다. .

original plan is mordernize of dongbu cargo terminal not for commercial use only. so this project must include cargo termianl..
but shinsegye just only want e-mart(may be??). there is so small area for two kind of using(about 14,000 square meter only), so shinsegye just gave up.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

cestlavie24 said:


> you shows wrong map.. that is wrong location.
> 
> 시는 지난 2012년 공고한 물류기본계획 내 화물터미널 재정비 사업의 일환으로 동부화물터미널 등 3개 노후 터미널 현대화 사업을 진행해 왔다. 시는 동부화물터미널, 한국화물터미널 서부트럭터미널 등 물류시설이 시설 노후화로 주변과 부조화를 이룬다고 보고 이를 재정비하는 내용이 담긴 물류기본계획을 세운바 있다.
> 
> ...


^^

and you hate LWT(this is your comment) and passionate supporter of park won sung.
You can't deceive SSC members about your beloved mayor's anti development policy. answer to me


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## cestlavie24 (Oct 2, 2013)

inno4321 said:


> ^^
> 
> and you hate LWT(this is your comment) and passionate supporter of park won sung.
> You can't deceive SSC members about your beloved mayor's anti development policy. answer to me


 
i hate LWT like common korean and just enjoy SCC in my way that is all. 
take it easy inno.. every people cannot have same opinion.

글도 쓰고 읽고 하다보면 다른 생각 가진사람끼리 논쟁도 할수 있고 그런거지 너무 얘민한거 같지 않으신지.. 걍 이런놈도 있고 저런놈도 있구나 생각하셔요.


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## korea2002 (Nov 24, 2007)

dsfdsfdfdsfsdfsdf


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

More photos and Above photos copyright belong to http://premium.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2015/01/14/2015011402391.html?csmain
사진을 퍼와서 죄송합니다. 혹시 사진의 주인분께서 삭제를 원하실경우 주져하지 마시고 제게 댓글이나 쪽지를 요청하시면 
즉각 바로 삭제하겠습니다. 좋은 사진 찍어주셔서 감사합니다. 

































More photos and Above photos copyright belong to http://cafe.naver.com/jaegebal/62125
사진을 퍼와서 죄송합니다. 혹시 사진의 주인분께서 삭제를 원하실경우 주져하지 마시고 제게 댓글이나 쪽지를 요청하시면 
즉각 바로 삭제하겠습니다. 좋은 사진 찍어주셔서 감사합니다. 
Seoul mayor wong sung cut the SOC budget in seoul project.(this bridge connect between 2002 world cup stadium and southern seoul area)

So world cup han river bridge deserted and almost stalled
this bridge construction begin since 2008.
but seoul mayor wonn sung's Anti development policy. Seoul cut the budget at the moment progress 20%!!(construction 2008 begin but still 20% progress)

which means 1 years per 5% progress. So base on this speed bridge completion at 2035!!!!

This world cup bridge total budget is 3500억( about 0.4 billions USD)
but Seoul government allocated only $ 10 millions at 2011
$ 15 millions at 2012
$ 10 millions at 2013
$ 10 millions at 2014
:bash::bash::bash:
according to the expert, bridge safety endanger due to bridge pillar expose to air and concrete erosion too long time since 2008


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## cestlavie24 (Oct 2, 2013)

not since 2008...

실시설계가 2006년말 완료되어 예산관계로 중단되었던 월드컵대교 추진계획이 2009년에 결정(부시장 방침 제18호) 되었으며 2009년에 상암동이 공공자전거 시범지역으로 선정됨과 동시에 자전거전용도로 설치를 위해 보완설계(교량폭원 변경 30.7m→31.4m)를 완료하여 2009년 12월 총사업비 3,550억원을 확정하여 공사발주를 하였다.

in end of 2009 oderd 
march of 2010, finaly start but suddenly apeared fishmans who want compensation.
so delay again about 1year and 4month...

<어민민원 일지>
- 2010. 3 : 월드컵대교건설공사 착공
- 2010. 7 : 강교조립장 공사착수(경기도고양시소재가양대교북단한강둔치)
- 2010.10 : 어민민원 발생(강교조립장전면에어망설치150m×150m)
강교조립장 공사중단
- 2010.10 ~ 2011.3 : 민원해결을 위한 협상진행
- 2011. 3 : 어민민원 합의완료
- 2011. 7 : 어민합의금 지급(강교조립장 사용을 위한 직접관련 어민 48명)

2011.7 start again..

yes.. too much delay is true...

i remembered actual main construction start 2013 fall with traffic conrtoling.
i feel il-being everyday for commute when i passed this area.. so i want finish asap..plz..


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

cestlavie24 said:


> not since 2008...
> 
> 
> yes.. too much delay is true...
> ...


^^
You are right cestlavie24
as you read above my news link in there many citizens complain about this bridge's construction delayed and intentional stalled situation.

especially 23 years old woman who like you commute from hanjung to hongdae, saying "I'm very inconvenient due to this deserted bridge"

surprisingly not only this one but also my home town gangnam highway construction delayed for 2years due to seoul mayor's anit development policy.
also 동부간선도로 dongbugansundoro also disappear by mayor.

countless project stalled and disappear by mayor.

it is very serious situation for seoul's future.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://media.daum.net/economic/estate/newsview?newsid=20151029185804856
^^
Official 
Seoul River side can't built over 35fl building.(apartment)
Seoul Mayor decide unapproved over 35fl building riverside

So only 35fl below building can built in there 
So 한남뉴타운 반포 잠실 여의도 hannam new town/banpo/jamsil/yeuido etc Most riverside civil redevelopment project almost stop due to seoul mayor's New guide line.

What a great mayor :bash:


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## FabriFlorence (Sep 29, 2004)

inno4321 I've understood that definitely you're not a supporter of Seoul Mayor :lol:


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

*Seoul citizens angry*

Seoul citizens protest against "irrational 35fl height limited regulation of Seoul mayor won sung"









http://www.newspim.com/news/view/20160318000466
^^
A man to bold his hair as expression of angry 
His neck hang some placard 
At March 3500 seoul citizens gather in Seoul square in front of seoul city.
Protest against HEIGHT LIMITED for redevelopment.









http://www.newsis.com/ar_detail/view.html?ar_id=NISX20160318_0013966593&cID=10201&pID=10200
^^
Placard writing as "Right now Dismiss ! Irrational height limited beside Han river 35fl limit. Seoul mayor park won sung e repent!"









http://www.edaily.co.kr/news/NewsRead.edy?SCD=JD51&newsid=03158646612584632&DCD=A00405&OutLnkChk=Y
^^
placard "rain leak in room but can't redevelop due to 35fl limited"
In short.
Busan city(second largest city of korea) can built over 85fl and even NOW 100FL triple tower.
But new Seoul mayor made 35fl limited
Now seoul mayor park won sung e suddenly made "han river height limited. So most han river apartment's redevelopment project stop& delay. Cause they can't to built over 35fl residence. accordding to korean law redevelopment must follow with "floor-to area ratio limited"
whichmean project owner must built building "limited space to built something" 
Moreover PLUS 35FL limited add to project. then project can't made sufficient space for profit. 
Only way to built more "density+widen building horizontal direction" instead of to built UPPER/vertical direction. TOO SAMLL TO BUILT.

In short apartment to become very density and cramped when to see those apartment views(tourist) from middle of Han river!
I bet Singafore+hongkong's skyline city plan officer will be panic when they visiting to seoul

*Not only these problem but also tons of thousand project of seoul suddenly send to waste box by now seoul mayor.*
these project civilian one. So they protest such like way. cause that is their real problem
But many important seoul public project gone by mayor but nobody protest against that
You know why? Cause that is not belong to anybody. So doesn't care mayor what did. 
Very important but nobody care cause PUBLIC&not belong to anybody.
That is why I fury about ANTI-DEVELOPMENT OF SEOUL and seoul mayor


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

^^Considering how little Mayor Park has done to genuinely harm the city--as opposed to the rights of private interests who are likely primarily concerned about not being able to reap profit from riverside real estate development--in balance to how little he's done to help, it's highly unlikely that he will serve a second term as mayor (though to be honest, I don't know if he even could). Don't worry, Inno, your detested "monkey mayor" is likely at the end of his obstructive life.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

aquaticko said:


> ^^Considering how little Mayor Park has done to genuinely harm the city--as opposed to the rights of private interests who are likely primarily concerned about not being able to reap profit from riverside real estate development--in balance to how little he's done to help, it's highly unlikely that he will serve a second term as mayor (though to be honest, I don't know if he even could). Don't worry, Inno, your detested "monkey mayor" is likely at the end of his obstructive life.


already he won re election.
actually seoulite support other candidate who Vice president of FIFA, owner of HYUNDAI heavy industry.
HE HAS AMAZING GRAND DEVELOP VISION IN SEOUL'S FUTURE
but a ship sinking accident& his son wrote innocent "private" facebook message that "korean people low life scum what they did in public etiquette"

But his high school friend inform that private message to left wing journal.
end up he apology but fail! what can i do? 
LOL


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

^^...You can try to understand and respect others' political opinions. I'm not a big fan of Mayor Park, but have you ever considered that working with him--instead of rabidly opposing everything he does--might bring better results?


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

aquaticko said:


> ^^...You can try to understand and respect others' political opinions. I'm not a big fan of Mayor Park, but have you ever considered that working with him--instead of rabidly opposing everything he does--might bring better results?


Why i opposite him? cause he "rabidly opposing everything" of seoul projects.
I advice to you "research how many important seoul projects stalled n disposal by your adorable mayor. 
So ridiculous a person advice to me support him but the one "don;t know that mayor whether FIRST or Reelection" such way U don;t know basic information about seoul mayor. How can i talk with u? you has no enough knowledge about seoul's situation.
furthermore this thread for "anti development policy of seoul" not about political issue. *So keep in TOPIC*


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

Development policy *is* a political issue, obviously, otherwise the actions of the mayor--a person in a political office--in regards to it would be irrelevant. And once again Inno, my not knowing about a single particular aspect about something doesn't disqualify me from talking about the larger issue.

If you're acting just as irrationally as you say the mayor is (and I don't totally disagree with you on him), then how can you criticize him? Maybe he's acting irrationally in response to the irrationality he's facing. 

If we justify our actions just based on who did what first, it ends up with it just being a blame game, and we end up without a discussion of what the right thing to do is, which hurts everyone. It's called being reactionary (bandongjeok in), and it is almost always wrong.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

aquaticko said:


> D.


^^
enough STOP TROLL 
Don't make this thread political anymore.


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

^^Why must you be such a typical conservative when it comes to this stuff? You create a thread almost solely dedicated to the political actions of a political figure--the urban development policies of a city's mayor--and then, when confronted with the fact that you're acting just as rashly as he is, you attack your confronter and not his points (because the truth you've been shown doesn't fit your conception of reality). This is called ad hominem in English, 인신 공격 in Korean, and it's wrong. Why can't you just admit when you're wrong?

I thought you and I had reached some kind of détente or something, but I ought to have known better than to think that was possible when you're involved.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

BREAKING NEWS

*Official today Seoul mayor opposite underground project of kungbuhighway.*
According to report Today held seoul city council and mayor official opposite underground project 
http://realestate.daum.net/news/detail/area/MD20160105182529268.daum

- *kungbuhighway is about 6.8km lentgh * 
problem : now many car *traffic jams there daily and a lot of pollution car ai*r pumping out and also *that road divided in the very heart of district(sucho)*. Therefore many citizens asking to made underground 
-But* HYUNDAI+DAEWOO+GSGUNSUL+DAERIM big civil construction company suggested underground project to sucho&seoul*
-*So project satisfied economical feasibility. moreover remain $ 2billions profit* 

-Detail : underground cost $ 1.2 billions and made 560,000㎡ public park over ground in stead of car road
Only 20% new ground to built commercial&residence. especially gnagnam distirct most expensive land in korea so Total profit over $3 billions USD.
*In short about $2 billions remain as profit after 6.4km to underground and 560,000㎡ public park!*
sucho citizens suffer 30 years with that highway!

But today official Seoul mayor opposite
-Mr choi ho jung(government party) asking to mayor to cooperation with sucho district about underground project 
-But seoul mayor response question that "*If we(seoul) participated on TF with sucho disitirct then it would agreed with underground project. but I can't agreed with that*!":nuts:
*Today news*==> http://news1.kr/articles/?2641066
Public citizens symposium ==> http://www.cennews.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=4708

OMG
Seoul mayor don't want develop seoul. I can't stand with that dictatorship anymore!


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

^^
http://news.joins.com/article/20001469?cloc=joongang|home|newslist3
*Official Seoul prohibited huge develop in CBD forever*
Seoul mayor again troll in seoul 
From now on inner CBD area Can't built over 24fl building FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From now on All Project allocated zone in CBD dismiss!! 
CBD area very large and wide and important of seoul! 
Ruin my city!! 
So no more huge develop impossible in CBD of SEOUL!
Only small&divided develop allow!
what the HACK!!
I really Hate this mayor's crazy city plan!

LAND owner benefit By this decision 
Cause they no need public donation(park) when built something 
huge develop asking huge public donation as park or pedestrian friendly walking board etc.
But they can divided project to many small micro project. So no need huge donation just built small ugly residences! 










^^
For example above SHinhan bank project impossible due to seoul decision preserved old building! So shinhan bank can't built HQ in there
Seoul mayor say that concrete building(left) is deserved as historical building! 
Not only this one but also countless project in CBD Dismiss forever by seoul mayor's decision forever!


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

^^Ah, yes, "forever" laws. The desire for authoritarianism runs fairly deeply on both sides of South Korea's political establishment.

Once again, considering that Mayor Park's term is over at the end of next year, I'm really not worried about it, and neither should you be, Inno. You know Mayor Park has no ability to enforce a law forever, so stop acting like that kind of nonsense actually means anything.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

아라뱃길 시작점. by 영섭 신, Flickr에서
^^
ARABAEKGIL beginning spot 18km
first national canal from Incheon to Seoul han river
DSC_8718.JPG by ilho ko, Flickr에서
IMG_0311 by 지호 백, Flickr에서
^^
ARABAEKGIL 33km
first national canal from Incheon to Seoul han river
Ministry of land&transfer Korea government investment $ 2 billions project 
to made canal cruise ship way from Incheon Harbor to Seoul han river
Korea government try to made tourist sea way from china to Seoul with 1000ton

But *seoul mayor prohibited cruise ship into Han river of seoul*
ducks floating on hangang by Hyok Kim, Flickr에서

So now only duck ship and small boat floating Han river since national project completed 4 yeas pass.
*So now All tourist(most of them chinese) who riding in cruise ship get off at KIMPO harbor and transfer with Bus for the purpose enter seoul city!*
And 4 big harbor in Seoul(Yeiudo/banpo etc) under closed!
http://www.hankyung.com/news/app/newsview.php?aid=2012052798151
In short
Korea government made 33km(incheon 18km,Seoul 15km) canal cruise way from Incheon to Seoul for the purpose promote service&tour industry in Seoul!
but seoul mayor opposite ship into seoul So canal project can't manged and $2 billions national invest go to waste box 
Still Ministry of Korea water&resource asking allow ship into han river of seoul but seoul mayor reject
*Now all tourist get off ship and transfer with BUS before enter to Seoul.*

One won sung e mayor supporter praise to mayor even he ruin CBD of seoul/anti develop 
It seem like looking Nkorean who praise dictator 
Seoul mayor regime is not the end of next years! How can this supporter reliable about seoul's city plan even don't know how long mayor's term? 
Yes not forever cause this supporter can reverse even after once divide area to built something.


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

The point still stands, even if I did get a point wrong. So his term ends the year after next, and not next year; he still will have no power to enforce that kind of law after he's out of office, and even if he is elected president, he'd have to be pretty damn petty and narrow-minded to focus on height restrictions in one half of the capital when he has so much to worry about.

You're so busy criticizing the mayor's policy that you've even left out most of the details. Will this apply to buildings already under construction? Is there any way to appeal such a restriction, by requesting exceptions, etc.? 

And how does the mayor have such irrefutable power, if not? If all mayors are "king of Seoul", then clearly your problem is with this mayor and his policies in particular, and not with the problems inherent in the city's mayoral office having dictatorial powers. 

If you'd just take a step back from your passionate dislike of the mayor, you'd get a lot more sympathy from me and other people. At this point, Mayor Park has done nothing that important for the city, and has impeded a lot of development that could have at least potentially been useful, so I'm not his supporter, either. But--and I know I've said this before--your reactionary attitude to everything he does is a lot like Park's reactionary attitude to development--unthinking and detrimental to anything we might consider good.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

^^
Shinhan bank is going to demolish this building and to built 35fl New head office in CBD








^^
But suddenly Seoul mayor prohibited demolish this building and decide preserved!
Preserved? what preserved? Is this building 200 years old beautiful architecture? or Gaudi's architecture?
*Not only this one but also ALL project in CBD project prohibited to develop as huge develop*.
What a most terrible problem is Jongro area will be "slum" due to anti develop policy of mayor.

Ghangwahmun(cheonggyecheon) developing and many people go there 
https://www.google.com/search?q=che...38_MAhWj2KYKHcT2CXwQ4QIIHigE&biw=1426&bih=762
also DDP develop by Zaha Hadid
https://www.google.com/search?biw=1...j4.64.serp..2.12.1242.0..0i3j0i10.wZEDMMXLZLM

but between "Joungro" nobody go there cause slum n dirty 
Only old age people palying "go" game
And *many Old age prostitue(called 박카스아줌마 bakas mature) secretly deal in there all around street corner*
As by this new law(no huge developing but small divided project allow and 24fl below) this JONGRO area more slummy and become like a ISLAND between Ghangwahmun and DDP
Tourist go to Ghangwahmun and Myoundong and DDP However SKIP "JONGRO" Cause that area slummy and old building.
We have to focus Jongro area forever slummy as island by mayor's anti development policy!

P.S *Seoul mayor's term is end of next years?* OMG That is mean I should mayor election next years again? I never heard about that! 
We can't reliable who don't know BASIC information about seoul city.

MORE information about SHINHAN BANK project report PLZ read http://news.mt.co.kr/newsPrint.html?no=2011122915302041023&type=1&gubn=undefined


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

You've already mentioned the Shinhan project, and I'd like to see it go up, too. 

And I've already admitted my being incorrect about the end date of Mayor Park's term. My sincerest condolences, I will never post anything about Seoul ever again, such is my disgrace....

That nonsense out of the way, I can't believe you still don't get the point, Inno. At this point, your dodging of what I'm saying is just so obviously intentional. We've been through this discussion before--someone not knowing a single particular fact about an argument does not make the rest of what I'm saying wrong. 

Mayor Park's term ending in 2018 instead of 2017 doesn't mean that all of a sudden, he can permanently outlaw buildings over 24 floors in Jongno-gu. If the project is that important to Shinhan, it will happen sooner or later.


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## humptydumpty7 (Nov 25, 2013)

aquaticko said:


> [...]doesn't mean that all of a sudden, he can permanently outlaw buildings over 24 floors in Jongno-gu. If the project is that important to Shinhan, it will happen sooner or later.


Exactly, i'm also optimistic 
Same situation with Hyundai GBC. Many years they were not allowed to build, now they got the permission with massive support from everyone, including the mayor.

Also Trimage is a nice example, where they build 2x200m towers next to han river, despite the "evil dictator mayor hating skyscrapers".

Good things can happen, just stay positive  

PS: please don't use bad language if you don't like my comment


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

humptydumpty7 said:


> Exactly, i'm also optimistic
> Same situation with Hyundai GBC. Many years they were not allowed to build, now they got the permission with massive support from everyone, including the mayor.
> 
> Also Trimage is a nice example, where they build 2x200m towers next to han river, despite the "evil dictator mayor hating skyscrapers".
> ...


^^
DEAR BRO
If you want to discuss something. You should express base on exact information. 
That is best way for constructive discussion!
*Trimage was APPROVED by former predecessor Seoul mayor Mr Oh Sa Hun*. Not by your "evil dictator mayor". you check the fact

Also *Hyundai tower originally guide line plan 50fl below by your now mayor.* 
But that project national one. but Skorea big 4 company no interesting about 50fl low/density project. 
whichmean KEPCO must sold out land with big money and with that money they move to suburban. It is by national program called "지방균형발전"(promote suburban develop policy). So there is no choice if land not selling with proper price! 
So your mayor end up withdraw exceptionally allow supertall demanded by money and national government not by his philosophy
that is why Hundaiy group pay world most expensive LAND MONEY $10 BILLIONS in there and $ 2 billions cash donation to seoul. money 
Actually *Mr jung moung gu who CEO of hyundai try to built 888m height land mark in there.* now decreased to 553m. compromised! 
I bet if not $10 billions cash they can't built even 553m height! 

later I will show you that a short tower(around 40~49fl) master plan in 88olympic stadium between LWT555M and HYUNDAI 553M by seoul<==this one later discussion more detail. 

aquaticko don;t know mayor's term and humptydumpty7 confused approved. I disappointed.
PLZ carefully study about seoul before fuss thanks


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## _Barca_ (Apr 15, 2009)

Is there any country where socialists don't hate skyscrapers?


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

_Barca_ said:


> Is there any country where socialists don't hate skyscrapers?


^^
very creative instinct comment.


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## _Barca_ (Apr 15, 2009)

No but seriously, these socialists parties also call themselves "green" and claim they like nature but they don't like tall buildings wich are the best way to keep green zones away of urban sprawls and concentrate the population in high density neighbourhoods where public transport can be more efficient. 
It doesn't make sense, it seems to me they just hate the idea of someone getting rich selling apartments.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

^^
Former mayor finished design opera house project in nodul(in the middle of han river) with $40 million and prepare under construction.
but he resign before project U/C








copyright to http://cafe.naver.com/pajeori/1051








copyright to http://blog.naver.com/etocat/220128516656
^^
But seoul mayor changed to new person then Now seoul mayor suddenly dismiss this project and to make "green plant" on there!
$ 40 millions seoulites tax money go to waste box when opera house design disappear!
According to the OECD report Seoul is one of lowest cultural seats per citizens though. even though accoding to survey over 70% seoulite(citizens) agreed the opera house project to built in Nodul island.
Opera house project disappear by Seoul mayor alone decision!
and to make "city farming" on there! 



_Barca_ said:


> No but seriously, these socialists parties also call themselves "green" and claim they like nature but they don't like tall buildings wich are the best way to keep green zones away of urban sprawls and concentrate the population in high density neighbourhoods where public transport can be more efficient.
> It doesn't make sense, it seems to me they just hate the idea of someone getting rich selling apartments.


^^
I 1000% behind with you. your opinions very true in my city's phenomenon! 
I really surprised that this kind of anti skyscraper/ anti develop tendency common in your country and my country. It really interesting comment for me.
I want to study with sociology about this opinions!!


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## Marco Bruno (Aug 29, 2003)

_Barca_ said:


> No but seriously, these socialists parties also call themselves "green" and claim they like nature but they don't like tall buildings wich are the best way to keep green zones away of urban sprawls and concentrate the population in high density neighbourhoods where public transport can be more efficient.
> It doesn't make sense, it seems to me they just hate the idea of someone getting rich selling apartments.


They think something like:

Towers = skyscrapers = USA = capitalism


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## humptydumpty7 (Nov 25, 2013)

_Barca_ said:


> Is there any country where socialists don't hate skyscrapers?


North Korea :lol:










Despite Sanctions and Isolation, Pyongyang Skyline Grows




inno4321 said:


> If you want to discuss something.You should express base on exact information.


I don't want to discuss or convince, I just say my opinion: I am optimistic about this project, thats it  
New elections will come, new mayor will come.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://www.hankyung.com/news/app/newsview.php?aid=2016051097861
Above article is editorial article of HANKYOUNG(korea economy news paper) about seoul mayor's recent city plan. 
HANKYOUNG paper is most prominent paper in korea journal like BLOOMBERG/FT.
So below translation is not my opinions but news paper's thinking.
Plz read below my translation(EXCUSE MY BAD ENLGISH)

*Seoul show us Many differents ways but excellent(?) method How to slum and falling behind seoul city!
*
Recently '2025 seoul city master plan" was public open by park won sun seoul mayor.
The point is to restrict building's height 90m(20fl) below inner CBD area of seoul.
Furthermore Some developing area of CBD's developing zone dismiss by 2025 seoul city master plan. Which mean to preserved old concrete building by itself instead of to redeveloping,remodeling with huge size. 
Seoul mayor insist that harmony between preserved and developing.

It seems make sense when first hearing. But second thought he(mayor) guided by fault idea that "to preserved is good thing but developing is bad things!"
I think he didn't understand the spirits of city's evolution whichmean city become more develop and integration as time passing by. 
Seoul mayor's plan opposite with world mega city's trend that "to release restriction,regulation" inside city such like TOKYO did.

I'm not surprised cause *I(writer journalist) have been saw many ridiculous "ANTI-CITY POLICY" by park won sun mayor who propaganda 마을공동체(promote village community movement)*

Also it is so funny for me to restrict new building's height as 90m below due to harmony with lowest height mountain 낙산naksan mountain's height.
Is to built 20fl building is beautiful but to built 30fl building is ugly? 
He totally misunderstand deep philosophy in developing. Ironically, to built 30fl or 40fl more height building more easily to preserved old architecture and made public space!
If seoul mayor don't want 20fl uniformity skyline then he must release restrict and allow more freedom to designers/architecture right now!

If seoul mayor's plan will not withdraw then seoul will be more more "falling behind and slum" 
For example around 익선동iksundong·낙원동nakwondong, 인의동ineudong·효제동hyujaedong, 종로5가jongro5 avenue, 주교동joogyodong·오장동ohjangdong·충무로5가chungmuro 5 avenue, 동대문디자인플라자(DDP dongdaemun design plaza) will be slummy as same ugly building since japan regime! Think about these area remain with development thoughtless for the environment since japan regime.
With massive capital and huge size developing is more environment friendly as by architecture technology improved.

*Seoul will be slowly recession and destroy by anti developing idea "Let's it be Dirty city itself"!*

==========
^^
*Please* don't confused above article's writer as me(inno4321) Above article's writer is not me but 정규재(mr chung kyou jae) who famous journalist in korea economy.
He thinking exactly same way what i thinking.


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

_Barca_ said:


> No but seriously, these socialists parties also call themselves "green" and claim they like nature but they don't like tall buildings wich are the best way to keep green zones away of urban sprawls and concentrate the population in high density neighbourhoods where public transport can be more efficient.
> It doesn't make sense, it seems to me they just hate the idea of someone getting rich selling apartments.


Because skyscrapers _do_ take a lot of resources to build. It's a concentration of resources, which may or may not be efficient in one case or another, but socialism is opposed to the concentration of resources in just one place. Equitable distribution is the key. Socialist parties call themselves green for the same reason non-socialist parties do: it's trendy. Profit-hungry corporations do the same thing.

There's a reason a lot of countries have both socialist AND green parties. One doesn't necessarily mean the other, and arguments from either position can be made for the other. Socialism can argue for environmentalism, and environmentalism can argue for socialism. Conversely, socialism can argue against environmentalism--if what's environmentally-friendly doesn't work towards the equal distribution of resources. It's harder to imagine environmentalism arguing against socialism (pure profit is inherently inefficient), but all that's kind of beside the point.

Mayor Park is clearly misguided in not allowing towers >20 floors in one of the densest parts of one of the densest cities in the world, and considering land and home prices in Seoul, and the environmental destruction rampant in South Korea in building commieblock apartments all throughout the capital region, he's got it wrong on both socialist and environmentalist grounds.

Critical thinking seems to be in short supply on the peninsula, on all sides of the political spectrum, but then, it's not something they've ever really taught there.


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## _Barca_ (Apr 15, 2009)

Sorry, but I don't browse skyscrapercity to feel the bern.


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

_Barca_ said:


> Sorry, but I don't browse skyscrapercity to feel the bern.


Way to make assumptions about someone and respond with an articulate, thoughtful post....


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://www.fntimes.com/paper/view.aspx?num=153353
^^
Again Seoul mayor made NEW height restriction in 32 New developing zone of Seoul!
According to the report seoul mayor approved new height restriction plan in all around seoul district at 6th city construction council.
This is another restriction beside a week ago's 2025 CBD Restriction plan!
:bash::bash::bash::bash:
^^
I can't make a full index what seoul mayor ruin and dismiss seoul project! it is too many to make index
Probably He become seoul mayor for the purpose turn metropolitan to suburban! plan!



aquaticko said:


> B.


enough we know you are socialist. that is why you continue support seoul mayor.
It is OK. That is your privilege. I respect! but this thread not for political discussion but about skyscraper and Anti developing phenomenon in seoul.
Don't you read above Mr Chung kyu Jae's editorial article?
That news paper clearly speaking about "Anti-city policy of seoul mayor" and critic that openly. Which mean ALL koreans know that "anti developing policy of seoul mayor! You should first critic "한국경제 Hankukyoungjae newspaper" rather than argue with other ssc members!

_Barca_ is right. I really admire his comment! Even I learn from him. we not talking about politic! We fight against "skyscraper hater! City hater" i.e Seoul mayor ruin seoul city! He is more vicious one than nkorea's fat boy concern skyscraper. Do you want we keep silence and just watching Ban skyscraper in seoul? Absolutely not
WE ARE SKYSCRAPER LOVER. though seoul failed but hopefully other city learn something from my city. I don;t want this kind of irrational anti developing phenomenon repeat in other cities! that is why I inform seoul mayor's vandalism in here.


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## _Barca_ (Apr 15, 2009)

aquaticko said:


> Way to make assumptions about someone and respond with an articulate, thoughtful post....


Articulate thoughtful posts are also in short supply on the peninsula, don't you know?


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

> *Inno*
> 
> ...that is why you continue to support mayor.





> *aquaticko*
> 
> Mayor Park is clearly misguided in not allowing towers >20 floors


Tell me, where did I say I support Mayor Park? I haven't been a real supporter of his for a very long time. And Inno, I'm _really_ getting tired of talking about this. *This is a political issue.* *Mayor* is a democratically-elected, political office; to the extent that Mayor Park is solely responsible for these stupid policies, _ they are political_. Stop with your nonsense.



> *_Barca_*
> 
> Articulate thoughtful posts are also in short supply on the peninsula, don't you know?


I'm still waiting to hear exactly what part of my original post you take issue with. You asked why socialists don't always support skyscrapers; I offered an explanation, and I still have no idea what you think of that explanation, other than an implicit disapproval.

Say something, or don't say something. Don't just say nothing.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

inno4321 said:


> http://www.hankyung.com/news/app/newsview.php?aid=2016051097861
> Above article is editorial article of HANKYOUNG(korea economy news paper) about seoul mayor's recent city plan.
> HANKYOUNG paper is most prominent paper in korea journal like BLOOMBERG/FT.
> So below translation is not my opinions but news paper's thinking.
> ...


^^
It is ridiculous for me. *aquaticko why you didn't reply above HANKUKKYOUNGJAE'S critic against SEOUL mayor's Anti developing Anti City Ban skyscraper policy? *
*Did you think that korea famous new paper talking about "politic"?* 
No they didn't! they talking about seoul city policy base on FACT.
seoul mayor is not Holy god. We must critic him when he ruin seoul city with rice field&*BAN SKYSCRAPER*! 
You confused skorea with nkorea. I know you like him because you same stance with him about political idea. But that is not my business 
We talking about city&skyscraper. You talking about politic! 



aquaticko said:


> S


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

^^He can specifically mention politics or not; it doesn't change the fact that urban development--including skyscrapers--are political. They are a product of a certain set of political beliefs, which lead to certain types of economic development, which leads to a specific type of urban development, i.e., skyscrapers. 

If all you're _really_ concerned about is Seoul developing further into a world-class city, then why don't you get upset at all the landowners who build shitty-looking commieblocks and give Seoul a terrible image? Why not hope for districts full of beautiful, 20-storey buildings built around pedestrian-friendly roads? Why not try to work with Mayor Park's stupid rules by at least setting a high bar for what _can _ be developed? Why not hope for the use of innovative modern Korean architects to give Seoul a feeling like older European cities, with their distinctive architecture and close-knit urban fabrics, yet done in a uniquely Korean way?

I keep focusing on the political, Inno, not just because ultimately _this is political_, but because there are so many things more important than height to a city's urban development, and if the height restriction is all that you or mister "Korean economy expert" _really_ care about, well, you need to get your priorities straight.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://news.mk.co.kr/newsRead.php?sc=30000001&year=2016&no=351433&sID=501
^^
*Today news report!*
Lotte complex commercial project in sangamdong stalled due to Seoul mayor park won sun
And Lotte company prepare a file a sue against seoul.

-Lotte buying land about $200 millions 20,600㎡ from Seoul city.
-Seoul mayor selling that land as "COMMERCIAL ZONE" 
-After selling land Seoul mayor Park won sun promote New policy which 경제민주화 "democracy of economy"
-And Seoul didn't approved for U/C and asking lotte negotiation with around vendors. So Seoul REJECT developing plan of LOTTE and didn't give "approved" so far! 
-Lotte annouced project impossible 
-According to the report this lotte project another "scapegoat of seoul mayor's policy" :bash::bash:
Now mayor COMEDY ONGOING :lol:




aquaticko said:


> ^^to give Seoul a feeling like older European cities.


^^
*Ban skyscraper, anti city, plant rice field in city** is evil behavior against civilization. *
"to give seoul a feeling like older European cities "? You kidding me? Why? WE DON'T NEED other continent's style. We have individual creative design i.e 한옥 Hanok more natural friendly design. why europe?
btw Again seoul mayor troll in SANGAM DMC commercial project. PLZ read above news article :nuts:


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

inno4321 said:


> ...*Ban skyscraper, anti city, plant rice field in city** is evil behavior against civilization. *
> "to give seoul a feeling like older European cities "? You kidding me? Why? WE DON'T NEED other continent's style. We have individual creative design i.e 한옥 Hanok more natural friendly design. why europe?
> btw Again seoul mayor troll in SANGAM DMC commercial project. PLZ read above news article :nuts:


The point was, Inno, that European cities don't need to build skyscrapers to avoid "turning into slums" because a lot of them have large quantities of excellent-quality low-rise buildings, and that the special feel you get from them--and other densely-built, pedestrian-friendly cities--is _not_ from the height of the buildings. 

Especially because Seoul's population is basically stable, and Korea's economy isn't growing nearly as fast as it used to, you can easily make an argument that it _does_ make sense for the city to start focusing on quality of buildings, not quantity, i.e., design and not height. Besides, there are tons of cities in China, for example, that are building very tall--much taller than Seoul--and yet no one knows about them because tall buildings really aren't _that_ important, much though we here may like them.

This is my problem with your perspective on this issue, Inno. You seem only to care about height, and building skyscrapers. There are tons of buildings over 100m being built all around Seoul--the terrible-looking ones that kimahrikku1 keeps us updated about all the time. Bland concrete commieblock apartment buildings built by greedy landowners and speculators--these are allowed to be built all over the city, and they are inarguably the worst part of the city's landscape. 

You don't update us about them because you know they're terrible, yet you pretend that there aren't any >100m buildings allowed to be built anywhere in the city, and that therefore not being able to build tall is the primary problem. It's not, and it hasn't been, and it won't be. The biggest problem is the attitude of residential developers in Seoul, who don't care about building miserable-looking, tower in the park-style buildings that destroy communities and ruin the appearance of the city.

I would love to see tons of hanok-style multistory developments all over the city, instead of these commieblocks, but new hanoks wouldn't probably be more than 5 stories, anyway, so your obsession with Mayor Park's idiotic anti-height regulations totally misses that point. 

Basically, Inno, _you_ are missing the point about improving Seoul.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

inno4321 said:


> http://news.mk.co.kr/newsRead.php?sc=30000001&year=2016&no=351433&sID=501
> ^^
> *Today news report!*
> Lotte complex commercial project in sangamdong stalled due to Seoul mayor park won sun
> ...


^^


aquaticko said:


> T


^^
Finally I understand your western view point in my city. No thanks. Now Just take care your cities. 
And I don't want to talk with you. Maybe *you want this thread to "closed" by fulled political Off topic&troll. * No I'll not mistake as you want or plan!
But I will continue update what seoul mayor's anti developing,anti skyscraper troll in seoul. :lol:


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## kimahrikku1 (Dec 24, 2012)

aquaticko said:


> The point was, Inno, that European cities don't need to build skyscrapers to avoid "turning into slums" because a lot of them have large quantities of excellent-quality low-rise buildings, and that the special feel you get from them--and other densely-built, pedestrian-friendly cities--is _not_ from the height of the buildings.
> 
> Especially because Seoul's population is basically stable, and Korea's economy isn't growing nearly as fast as it used to, you can easily make an argument that it _does_ make sense for the city to start focusing on quality of buildings, not quantity, i.e., design and not height. Besides, there are tons of cities in China, for example, that are building very tall--much taller than Seoul--and yet no one knows about them because tall buildings really aren't _that_ important, much though we here may like them.
> 
> ...


Not sure if that was a shout out or an attempt to criticize my work hahaha.^^

Jokes aside, I agree. Korea does ave a huge need to revamp many of its older buildings look like shit. But, Korea doesn't really have to increase the number of households by square area, because the population isn't increasing much. The math is fairly simple, such a situation calls for many projects, but doesn't require them to be tall. Of course, I'm all for all buildings, otherwise I wouldn't have subscribed to about 380 threads about Korean projects on this site (and created said threads for many of the lousiest projects). I'm all for free market, I'm pro-business, and I'm ready to bet Aquaticko is too. But high=capitalism / low=communism is pure ridicule. The soviets were much more obsessed with raw numbers, and they were the ones building tall buildings until the 1960s until they run out of money. Most of Eastern Europe's tallest buildings are still government complexes or universities built by the USSR. And the term "commieblock", well, comes from the shitty mid-rises the soviets built while in the US, comfortable 2-floor residential housing suburbs were built.

There's something a bit ironic. You criticize the mayor's decision to limit the Jongro height to 90m, but most of the projects you upload or talk about are the smaller projects that will have lasting cultural impact. Examples of the threads you've created: Gyeungui Line Forest Trail, Nara Kium Tower, Magok Botanic Park, National Park Service Park, Hannam-dong Foreigners' residences, DangIn Lee Power Station park transformation, Yeongdongdaero transportation complex, K-Experience, Garak Market remodeling...
These are all very interesting projects, that will impact the lives of citizens and tourists alike, but they are all fairly small and all of them definitely low in height.

In the meantime, there are many residential projects near the CBD area (Jongro-gu, Jung-gu) for which you haven't created a thread and that you didn't even mentioned, while most of these projects are way taller than the projects for which you created a thread. A few examples : Ahyeon I-Park, Seoul Station Central Xi, Seoul Station Halla Vivaldi Central, e-Convenient World Sinchon, the very massive Centlas multi-developer project just east of DDP, Deoksugung Lotte Castle, Gyeonghuigung Xi...

So, for someone supposedly so hell-bent on height, you disregard, like most people, the taller buildings.

Anyway, you remind me of the guy who plays SimCity, spends a bunch of money building the expensive landmarks while the population hasn't gone past 500 people yet, gets angry because he is bleeding cash, then throws a tantrum and unleashes a Meteor Strike Disaster to destroy his own city...


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

upload a gif
^^
*Simulation : Apartment citizens want to built 45fl(right) But seoul mayor want to 35fl(left)! Public donation 45fl more large scale compare with 35fl*
compare between 35fl regulation and none
whichone more looks like "commie block"?
Sure Absolutely 35fl height limit make more "commie block" in seoul. And suffocating seoul's landscape. And furthermore hide behind mountain with building.
As you see above simulation 35fl limit make seoul like a Military unified city. That philosophy came from "Collectivism rather than Individualism"



aquaticko said:


> A bunch more commieblock apartment developments--which, going by number, are almost _exclusively_ what is built not just in Seoul, but South Korea as a whole (hence the trouble of establishing a unique identity for Seoul)--surrounded by patches of grass and a few trees won't do anything for either. .


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

...Uh, it wouldn't need to be a "collectivist, military" style of development if Korean land owners and developers cared at all about anything other than profit, or if Korean consumers were more open to adventurous design even at the expense of ability to resell. Residential design is very advanced--very individualistic--in a lot of other parts of the world; there's every reason it should be so in Seoul, too.

Inno, I'd agree that the height restriction was bad if there was any reason to believe that that is what was holding back architecture. However, as dozens and dozens of tall but bland concrete blocks all over the city--and the rest of the country--show, height has nothing to do with good design and unique identity.

I find it particularly hypocritical of you to say that height restrictions are holding back design in Seoul when you always ignore the many boring, ugly residential development threads that kimahrikku1 keeps updated (much to his credit). Even the plain, anonymous developments in Geumcheon-gu, just down the street from where you live, prove you wrong.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

^^
Original Seoul Sky regulation
Now destroy above all creative design and turn to 35fl below regulation.
So Most redevelopment project stop and Architecture complain they can't make creative design due to 35fl limit
present(top)
35fl regulation simulation(*middle*)
original seoul's skyline plan(bottom)



aquaticko said:


> I find it particularly hypocritical of you to say that height restrictions are holding back design in Seoul .


^^
I'm not
I find it particularly hypocritical of you.


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

If architects need at least 35 floors for creativity, then they must not be very creative. I know there are quite a few architects in South Korea who do excellent design in short buildings; mostly, land owners and developers don't want to pay for them.

Besides, as I said before, looking at the heights and designs of buildings that have been and are currently being built in Seoul, it's obvious that height isn't what's holding back the city's architecture.

Seriously, Inno; if you think height is what will bring creativity, how do you explain all the tall but boring things currently being built?

Edit: Also, now that I'm not at work, I can better see those graphics you've posted. "View corridors"....Honestly. How often do you expect people to be standing around looking at a gap between buildings up in the air? That's particularly ironic considering how little attention is often paid to street-level development. Like a broken record, I'll point out the too-wide roads, as well as the poor or totally absent street-level engagement which plague Seoul _at street level_, where most people who don't want to be hit by cars look all the time. Given the amazing ways in which the hills and mountains throughout and surrounding Seoul insert themselves into almost every perspective in the city, Seoul is one of the lucky few megacities in the world where the natural landscape doesn't really need attention brought to it. And the idea of constructing 50 floor towers to attract attention to the natural environment is, once again, very ironic.

Critical thinking, Inno. Critical thinking.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

^^
*TODAY official reject 35fl proposal by apgujung residences people*
*85% citizens reject *seoul mayor's 35fl guide line So *project stalled*. P.S. total owner2454 but 2083 vote for reject
They will not follow seoul's 35fl guide line



aquaticko said:


> If architects need at least 35 floors for creativity,


IMO heerim architecter firm's designer can't critical thinking. They should learn from Von aquaticko sir. And learn what is architecter it is.
Cause they express complain about 35fl guide line. 
return to basic, aquaticko. return to basic


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

You still haven't answered my question, Inno. If height restrictions are what's holding back design in the city, why do we have so many dull towers going up all round the city anyway? You think that all of a sudden, skyscrapers are automatically well-designed if they're over 35 floors tall? Like good architects say, "oh look, we can make this building 36 floors tall, _now_ we can be creative?

If Heerim is saying that the 35 floor restriction is a big deal, then that leads me to think that my opinion of them as primarily known for blue glass boxes that'd be boring everywhere else in the world but are "special" in South Korea due to the low standards of design for most buildings, is correct. I love what they did with the Mirae Asset towers in Jongno, and the Four Seasons Hotel is nice, too, but if they honestly can't make great designs with less than three dozen floors, well, that looks bad for them.

In any case, architects have only so much say on how a building will look. They have to work with clients' expectations, and if the backlash against this regulation proves anything, it's that way too many developers, land owners, and consumers in South Korea have no imagination and no passion for design, at least when it comes to architecture. Once again, I'm amazed by the potential of South Korea, but disappointed with the end result.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

Above Youtube news link block So please visiting directly visiting YUTUBE SITE ==>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x7zMmyJDWI

^^



http://www.hankyung.com/news/app/newsview.php?aid=2016070766121
^^
No 1 Major Korea News KBS report(korea's NHK) that " Seoul's SOC project stalled 15 sites about $600 millions cost disappear"

For example According to the report 
*World Cup Bridge U/C stop and stand still for 6 years just stand concrete core in river.* 
Did you remember when 2002 Korea- Japan world cup held? at 2002!!
cause when seoul mayor take office he arrange world cup bridge as not immediately need project. Cause *SEOUL MAYOR concentrated on "Social welfare budget increase policy" rather than SOC/city rebuilding/sustain and to built new infrastructure*

:nuts: So seoul's budget cut on bridge U/C! So bridge completion date delay to at August 2015 and then again completion delayed to 2017 and then last years again delayed to 2020. and then again seoul mayor delayed bridge date to at Feb 2021!!!! :nuts:

Now SAMSUNG C&T almost stop U/C and many heavy machine spend a lot of sustain money. 

Furthermore *as by world cup bridge stalled Many citizens suffer traffic jams* and spent a lot of social waste. 
All commute car rush into 성산대교 sungsandae bridge. This bridge *safety check "C" degree whichmean very dangerous! But 250,000 car a day *go and out through this dangerous bridge due to delayed completion of World Cup bridge

According to the above KBS news Not only world cup bridge *but also 15 other major SOC seoul project delayed.* <=I have no time so I just introduce just one case =world cup bridge!

Yes this is aquati's love seoul mayor's real philosophy. 35fl height limit one of them. irrational 


World cup bridge site road view http://map.naver.com/index.nhn?vrpanotype=3&query=7JuU65Oc7Lu164yA6rWQ&searchCoord=&street=on&menu=location&tab=1&vrpanopoi=off&vrpanolng=967e4408105904146972352cde7f6fb5&lng=b9d3617d4949e9df2993db97cf5829ab&__fromRestorer=true&mapMode=0&vrpanofov=120&vrpanoid=YBpR73%2FxTR0EawNIpEZGpQ%3D%3D&flight=on&vrpanopan=39.67&mpx=37.453541%2C126.9032623%3AZ11%3A0.0235408%2C0.0115087&vrpanosky=on&vrpanolat=a23470b11f3b8238ace296cbd02d484d&vrpanotilt=-2.75&dlevel=12&lat=6de9a9db10b751d45c717ee7e54d14ea&enc=b64


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

Who said I love Mayor Park? I'm just not simple enough to think tall always means better.

As for him playing around with Seoul's budget, you should blame your national government. Metropolitan and provincial governments in South Korea are much more in debt than the national government, because the national government still thinks that it's at risk for another IMF crisis, and so keeps building up foreign exchange reserves, tries to keep the national debt down to developing-country levels to avoid inflation that Korean consumers desperately need to reduce their debt (paradoxically weakening the economy be reducing domestic consumption), and neglects social welfare spending--meaning that city governments like the mayor of Seoul's have to take on social welfare spending itself, instead of being able to invest in social welfare AND infrastructure.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

*Anti develop policy in seoul*

*One city But TWO different Bridge!!! *


^^
Above project is 
"seoul station overpass make as pedestrian friendly park"!
Now U/C
This project begin by Seoul mayor park won sun. He regime seoul ever longest "seat" in seoul mayor(he twice reelected as mayor) 
But he didn't nothing about seoul's rebuilding 
So seoul citizens complain about that but he is famous anti developer also hate skyscraper project. 
So he suddenly announced that he will remake Old seoul station overpass as walking park!!!
that is above project!



^^
World cup bridge!! 6 years stand in there with ugly concrete core on river!
Very important infrastructure project for seoul!
A day 250,000 commute car rush into safety "C" grade sungsandae bridge
*But seoul mayor cut the budget So completion date delayed 4 times!!*
actually this bridge must open now But completion date 2021!!!!!!

What a "irrational" mayor's policy!
one bridge stop construction but other bridge make walking board?
I'll not go to Seoul overpass park. I know seoul well that is terrible and useless dangerous ridiculous overpass park.
safety grade is "D"!!!! think about what happen when earthquake hit seoul.
Absolutely that overpass park will be "collapse". 
Seoul citizens need world cup bridge and other infrastructure!!! 
He doesn't care about Seoul's future or prosperity
Seoul is real decay day by day very serious.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

image search
http://biz.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2016/10/31/2016103102772.html

SAMSUNG C&T give up weeraeshinsa new light rail transit project due to economical feasibility
Meanwhile Seoul government never mind what they do. Seoul mayor break promise with citizens So criticism against seoul mayor/government.


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

image upload free
http://news1.kr/articles/?2860539
^^
Seoul mayor reject above eunma apartment redevelop due to height limit regulation
Enma design 50fl suggest to seoul but seoul mayor 2 times reject cause All apartment in seoul must built 35fl below
So project stop


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

upload png
^^
http://land.hankyung.com/news/app/newsview.php?aid=2017010353621
^^
50FL landmark disappear due to Seoul mayor opposite
Hannam 5 area to built 22fl instead of 50FL 2634 houses 

*Again Seoul lost another New landmark due to seoul mayor park won sung e*


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

free upload pictures
^^
http://land.hankyung.com/news/app/newsview.php?aid=2017010353611
Seoul mayor again reject Eunma apartment project
Eunma apartment project *re-design from 50fl to 49fl *due to seoul mayor's opposite
But Yesterday Seoul reject 49fl design too.
"49fl too tall to built. Enma should built 35fl below" say Seoul


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

http://news.mk.co.kr/newsRead.php?no=9290&year=2017
^^
*Seoul mayor hide professional study report from civil institute.*
According to the 매경
In Jan, "Seoul apartment design improve"'서울시 아파트 디자인특화방안' report suggest to *housing&city develop division of seoul city.* 
According to the report "*Seoul shouldn't height floor limited as 35fl. As far as Seoul limited height regulation in apartment then seoul's skyline will be dumb and apartment can't design as creative shape* and Seoul apartment used to rebuilt as boxy shape ugly design. Moreover seoul apartment become more unifying due to 35fl limit regulation" *So report persuade "dismiss 35fl limit policy of seoul mayor."*
And recommend "complex skyline design. especially for Han riverside." and report recommend "special design zone in seoul apartment and allow tall building to built in apartment."
'입체적 디자인 라인' '세계적인 수변공간 창출' 등을 강조했다. 보고서에는 '특별건축구역 지정 등을 통해 건축디자인의 다양성을 확보하고, 통경축에 대한 계획·관리를 통해 도시내부~한강으로의 열린 경관을 창출해야 한다'는 내용도 들어가 있다. 

In short this report asking "to dismiss 35fl regulation and height limit for the purpose to built creative design. Cause with height increase incentive can compensation to built creative design. If there is strong height floor limit then civil apartment to built boring/unifying shape apartment "

*But this report didn't inform to seoul mayor due to report contain opposite opinions with Seoul mayor's 35fl regulation. *
I'm so shy this is seoul's democracy's poor level.

I surprise that this report 100% agreed with my opinion and critic about seoul policy. Is this report made by inno4321?No 
this report result by housing&city develop division of seoul city! They asking to professional institute and pay for that. But received opposite study result. It make perplex them. Therefore report go to waste box


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## cestlavie24 (Oct 2, 2013)

inno4321 said:


> http://news.mk.co.kr/newsRead.php?no=9290&year=2017
> ^^
> *Seoul mayor hide professional study report from civil institute.*
> According to the 매경
> ...


mayor park now only concentrated about presidential candidate 
and going crazy...


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

Yesterday he said that
*"I will dismember Seoul National University when I elected as president of skorea" say Park won sun Seoul mayor *
http://news.heraldcorp.com/issueplus/view.php?ud=201701130029476930479_1

It seems like Tokyo mayor said that I will dismiss Tokyo university when I become chancellor of Japan.
London mayor I will dismiss oxford/cambridge university when i elected as minister of uk.



cestlavie24 said:


> mayor park now only concentrated about presidential candidate
> and going crazy...


^^
I agreed that 
he did nothing during his regime in seoul city. Seoul stalled for many years since he mayor that is hurt me.


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

^^Eh, the guy's a fool and a nut. If he thinks that tearing apart Seouldae is going to do anything to change power structures, then he understands nothing about his own society.


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## Victoria123 (Feb 15, 2015)

aquaticko said:


> ^^Eh, the guy's a fool and a nut. If he thinks that tearing apart Seouldae is going to do anything to change power structures, then he understands nothing about his own society.


I agree.
I'm normally supportive of this guy's ideologies and idiosyncrasies, but if this is actually what he thinks, he probs doesn't understand the mechanics of French education, of which he has declared as a model. 
In my personal opinion and understanding of Korea, the education systems of Finland, Germany, and France simply cannot function in Korean culture. It will quickly break down and resume the shape of what it is now today. 
The education system of Korea will crash someday, though. This cannot persist. It is through the crisis that Korea will organically develop an education system that suits the culture - one that keeps the balance between Korean culture, personalized education, and the western-style/capitalistic success (that every Korean is striving for today).


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## inno4321 (Dec 10, 2007)

^^
49FL design 

*EUN MA give up 49fl luxury apartment due to Seoul's 35fl regulation.*

EUN MA invest huge million for luxury 49fl redevelop design(above) But Seoul reject 49fl and asking 35fl below

End up few days ago they give up 49fl and is going to redesign 35fl's plan base.

Thanks Seoul another commie block will rise.

http://www.seoul.co.kr/news/newsView.php?id=20171030021002&wlog_tag3=naver

btw Another billions project Apgujoung and Yeiudo not yet compromised with Seoul's 35fl regulation
and they push up skyscraper apartment.
they waiting new mayor?


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