# Frankfurt - apart from skyline



## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

Golden Age said:


> Interesting post, however, your opinion of Frankfurt is well summarized by what you wrote under "location": Woopie doo Frankfurt, which translates as average, dull, boring, functional and thus somewhat unappealing. You are entitled to this view and have stated your reasons fairly.


Don't take my "location" too seriously. It's just written in jest. It stems from the point when friends from other country's come to visit, especially those when it's their first time in Europe. They are sort of underwhelmed. Frankfurt just isn't that inspiring a place. But as I wrote. It is quite functional and livable. I just never reccomend it to someone for an international holiday.



Golden Age said:


> In contrast, to me it is quite exciting and very interesting to live here. Here are some reasons why: As always, the culture calendar is full of highlights (try the crowd pleasing Boticelli or Seurat exhibitions), great stores are opening (Germany's biggest Apple Store, Europe's first Hollister...


correction. Europe's 4th Hollister. Three had previously opened in Europe in the UK, two in London and one in Southampten before the Frankfurt opening.


Golden Age said:


> , one of Germany's biggest Boss stores, Manufactum in the beautiful new Opern Turm), new towers are being built (the iconic European Central Bank, Tower 185, WinX), the city center updated (Zeil, Hauptwache, Altstadt), the biggest structure in Germany is being constructed (Airrail Center), new five star hotels are coming (Jumeirah, Mandarin Oriental, Grand Hyatt), it just opened one of Europe's nicest university campuses in the Westend...


Well... none of those buildings really stand out on the international stage. I don't think there is any building in Frankfurt known outside of Germany except by people maybe on this forum. That doesn't mean they are bad. I really like the skyline personally and those buildings you mentioned. But they are not international icons and never will be. As for the university campus in the westend being one of the nicest in Europe... Hmmm, well, I've been through Cambridge and Oxford just to name two and Westend has absolutely no comparison with them. I am also sure there are plenty of other amazing universities in Europe.


Golden Age said:


> , will redo the entire Bockenheim campus and has countless other developments in the pipeline (i.e., Ostend, Europaviertel). If this doesn't count as dynamic, interesting or exciting, I don't know what does. Compare this to the slow pace of German cities like Munich, which is a tourist magnet and very appealing, but is building hardly anything new. Maybe because of its lost history, Frankfurt has much more flexibility to change and create.


I would certainly rather live in Frankfurt than Munich. I'm not a big fan of that city either. But Berlin and Hamburg are just so much more interesting and attractive for me. 

As you say, we all have our opinions. But, having lived in some pretty amazing cities in my lifetime from Sydney (where I commuted by boat everyday across the harbour from my home on Manly Beach) to London and a few others in between. I have to say that Frankfurt itself is quite a "standard" city. It does have one of the most interesting metropolitan area's of all the cities I have lived in though. Lovely places like Wiesbaden being on our doorstep etc, but it just doesn't have anything really special that makes it stand out.

But I do like living here. It has good public transport, good cycleways, a good airport (to get to more interesting cities easily ;O), good rail links across the country, ok shopping and a nice metro area.

But knowing what I know now. If I was to do it all again, and come to Germany to live, I would choose Berlin or Hamburg. If it wasn't for the fact that all my friends and my wife live here in Frankfurt I would move to either Berlin or Hamburg at the drop of a hat. But, alas, I've moved too many times in my life and each time it's so hard to say goodbye to my friends. So, I guess I am here for the long term.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

kato2k8 said:


> ... because it badly needed it, with only cosmetic changes done since the S-Bahn-Tunnel under the Zeil was built in 1983.


Quite true. The underground area around Hauptwache, Konstablawache and the Hauptbahnhof hasn't changed in the last 10 years (except for minor cosmetic changes in Hauptwache and deterioration in the Hauptbahnhof. In that time, I found each time I visited city, their underground connecting arcade between Town Hall Station & the QVB has been completely rebuilt and updated. The same with the underground connections in Canary Wharf.

Sometimes it seems in Frankfurt that if it isn't completely broken, why fix it up.

That all said, the recent MyZeil shopping center, although somewhat shoddy in detail and quality is stunning overall and hopefully will encourage upgrades in other parts of the city center. I heard the Zeilgallerie will have a makeover. But what it looks like at the end and if it really happens is something I won't speculate on.

The recent Zeil pedestrian zone refurbishment, though nice, has taken forever to complete and looks only slightly different to before. Sure, nicer cafe's in the center and new lights, but Í'm sure the bricks were put back in exactly the same pattern, if not damn similar.

But, one thing I do love about Frankfurt's shopping area is the pedestrian zones. Well, most German cities have these. When I was recently in Sydney and Auckland, I missed the main streets being pedestrian zones, and found them to be quite noisy and chaotic compared to the Zeil and other streets in Frankfurt. I am also shot down quite a lot on the London forums when I suggest Oxford Street also becomes a pedestrian zone and use Frankfurt as a good example of a successful one.


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## urbane (Jan 4, 2005)

Justme said:


> As you say, we all have our opinions. But, having lived in some pretty amazing cities in my lifetime from *Sydney* (where I commuted by boat everyday across the harbour from my home on Manly Beach) to *London* and a few others in between. I have to say that Frankfurt itself is quite a "standard" city. It does have one of the most interesting metropolitan area's of all the cities I have lived in though. Lovely places like Wiesbaden being on our doorstep etc, but it just doesn't have anything really special that makes it stand out.
> 
> But I do like living here. It has good public transport, good cycleways, a good airport (to get to more interesting cities easily ;O), good rail links across the country, ok shopping and a nice metro area.
> 
> But knowing what I know now. If I was to do it all again, and come to Germany to live, I would choose *Berlin *or *Hamburg*. If it wasn't for the fact that all my friends and my wife live here in Frankfurt I would move to either Berlin or Hamburg at the drop of a hat. But, alas, I've moved too many times in my life and each time it's so hard to say goodbye to my friends. So, I guess I am here for the long term.


I think it's an issue of perspective: you are comparing Sydney and London to Frankfurt. Of course Frankfurt will look standard compared to those cities: it's several times smaller ! Even Berlin or Hamburg are substantially bigger than Frankfurt. One has to keep in mind that Frankfurt, despite the great skyline, is a medium sized city with 660 some thousand inhabitants. Even though the Rhein Main area is quite big, it's polycentric having cities like Mainz, Wiesbaden, Darmstadt, and Offenbach aside from Frankfurt.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

^^ Smaller? The city proper you mention for Frankfurt of 660,000 compares to Sydney's city proper of 175,000.


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## urbane (Jan 4, 2005)

City of Sydney: 26.15 square kilometres (Source: http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/AboutSydney/CityResearch/AtAGlance.asp )
Stadt Frankfurt:248,3 km2 (Source: http://www.frankfurt.de/sixcms/detail.php?id=3834&_ffmpar[_id_inhalt]=7526)

From this perspective it seems we are comparing apples to oranges here. What's next ? Are we going to define London as the City of London instead of Greater London ?

Sorry but no matter how you spin it, you are not going to convince me that Sydney, or London, or Berlin, or Hamburg are smaller than Frankfurt. Furthermore, as I mentioned above, the Rhein-Main metro is polycentric, unlike the ones mentioned above, so Frankfurt is not the only place where amenities are located at.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

urbane said:


> City of Sydney: 26.15 square kilometres (Source: http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/AboutSydney/CityResearch/AtAGlance.asp )
> Stadt Frankfurt:248,3 km2 (Source: http://www.frankfurt.de/sixcms/detail.php?id=3834&_ffmpar[_id_inhalt]=7526)


Sorry, I don't see your point. Those are simply figures that confirm exactly what I said. The city of Frankfurt has 660,000 people and the city of Sydney has 175,000 people. The city of Frankfurt, as you pointed out, with more people also has a larger area than the city of Sydney with less people and covers a smaller amount of area.



urbane said:


> From this perspective it seems we are comparing apples to oranges here. What's next ? Are we going to define London as the City of London instead of Greater London ?


Now you are confusing me even more. In fact, it is you comparing apples with oranges, I am comparing apples with apples.

The city of Sydney is the political boundary governed by a mayor and the exact equivilent of the Frankfurt city council governed by a mayor. The London GLA is the UK equivilent governed by a Mayor (the wonderfully colourful Boris Johnson). And thus the city proper of London is larger than Sydney or Frankfurt.

Now, the Sydney you are thinking about, the big one with 4.2million people, is not actually a city. It has no mayor and no political boundary's. It covers something like 12,000km² and includes vast area's of national park, forests and rural land and is known as the "Sydney Statistical Division" or SSD for short. It is the exact equivilent of Frankfurt's Rhein Main. Both are polycentric in their own ways. Where the Rhein Main has cities like Wiesbaden, Mainz and Darmstadt, Sydney's SSD has centers like Parramatta, Gosford and Chatswood.

As for the "City of London" which is actually quite tiny. That is an historical reference and not considered the city proper as we know it today. Neither the Rhein Main nor the SSD have a mayor, but the GLA does. The GLA also is _not_ a metropolitan area. London also has a metropolitan area around the GLA. In fact, the GLA is not even the urban area which also extends past the GLA boundary's. The GLA is the city proper of London, just as the two city propers mentioned for Frankfurt and Sydney.

So, whilst I compare a city proper with a city proper and a metro with a metro, you are comparing the city proper of Frankfurt of 248km², a static political boundary, with a mayor to Sydney's metropolitan area of 12,500km², no political boundary (it's dynamic and can add regions as commutable patterns change) and no mayor.



urbane said:


> Sorry but no matter how you spin it, you are not going to convince me that Sydney, or London, or Berlin, or Hamburg are smaller than Frankfurt. Furthermore, as I mentioned above, the Rhein-Main metro is polycentric, unlike the ones mentioned above, so Frankfurt is not the only place where amenities are located at.


No. I am not trying to spin anything. Here are the facts:
City Proper.
Frankfurt: 660,000 
Sydney: 175,000

Metro:
Sydney Statistical Division: 4.2million over 12,500km²
Frankfurt's Rhein Main: 5million over 14,000km²

Both are polycentric, and yes, those other centers in Sydney also have their own councils and amenities.

What I find so confusing in your statements is that you live in Offenbach. You live in a place that is 3.5minutes from my local station in Frankfurt (Südbahnhof), is completely connected to Frankfurt and yet you don't consider the population should be counted. Yet, you are fine in saying that Lithgow, 150km from Sydney, divided by the vast Blue Mountains and dense forest is part of Sydney just because it is in the Sydney Statistical Division which is the metropolitan area that provides the 4.2million population.

Having lived in both Sydney and Frankfurt, I can tell you they operate in a very similar way, including their respective metropolitan area's. The fact that of the 20 people in my department where I work, I am one of only 2 who actually live in Frankfurt and the rest come from the Rhein Main area and commute sounds awfully similar to my last job in Sydney which had an almost identical percentage of commuters from outside the city proper.

If Frankfurt is indeed only 660,000 people and Sydney, which you say is not polycentric and has 4.2million, then please explain to me why Frankfurt city center does not feel less busy or crowded than Sydney's downtown?

As for comparison, of course I can compare the two cities, or any other city for that matter. I lived in Sydney, now I live in Frankfurt. I can compare what each city has. Hell, I could do that if I moved to a small village in the middle of nowhere in Eastern Germany.

At the end of the day, both Sydney and Frankfurt has a similar metropolitan area population in a not too different area of land. Both are polycentric though there are of course individual differences like there is between any city.


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## urbane (Jan 4, 2005)

^^

Interestingly when you talk about the Rhein Main Gebiet, you write the "Frankfurt's Rhein Main Gebiet". Well, I beg to differ on that: there is a reason it's called the Rhein Main Gebiet and not Frankfurt's Metropolitan area: because it's traditionally, and to this day polycentric. So if we compare the centres of the two metropolitan areas we would have to compare Sydney's city proper as well as it's other centres to the totality of Frankfurt, Wiesbaden, Mainz, Darmstadt, Worms, Aschaffenburg and Offenbach (if we want to take the extended definition). Then one would have to compare what they offer. Anything else is, comparing apples to oranges. The extent of city boundaries has mainly historical reasons and doesn't offer a decent basis for comparison i.m.o.

I don't know Sydney, nor have I ever claimed to (certainly I never wrote anything about Lithgow), so I can't judge how polycentric it is, however London, and Berlin (and porbably Hamburg) certainly are not as polycentric as the Rhein Main Gebiet for historical reasons. so comparing those large cities to just Frankfurt is unfair without taking into consideration the different sizes.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

urbane said:


> Interestingly when you talk about the Rhein Main Gebiet, you write the "Frankfurt's Rhein Main Gebiet". Well, I beg to differ on that: there is a reason it's called the Rhein Main Gebiet and not Frankfurt's Metropolitan area: because it's traditionally....


Thankyou for your reply. I must say though, that the Rhein Main is simply a name. It is a name, no different say to San Francisco's metropolitan area known as the "Bay Area". Yet, despite the polycentric nature of that metro, San Francisco is still the dominant city. And the Bay Area is far more polycentric than the Rhein Main. San Jose is, afterall, these days larger than San Francisco which is something that is not the case in the Rhein Main where Frankfurt is without doubt the largest and most dominant city.

But you are correct here in the reason for the name. Tradition. Mainz itself predates Frankfurt and many hundreds of years ago, it was even more important. The other centers also have traditions of their own as being fully separate, independent cities.

But let's be honest here. That was at a time when travel between these centers was far different and more difficult than it is today. We don't live in the time of horse and carts, we live in a time where these centers are an easy 30minutes commute and in many ways, especially for the centers in the direct core of the metropolitan area, are connected within an urban belt.


urbane said:


> and to this day polycentric. So if we compare the centres of the two metropolitan areas we would have to compare Sydney's city proper as well as it's other centres to the totality of Frankfurt, Wiesbaden, Mainz, Darmstadt, Worms, Aschaffenburg and Offenbach (if we want to take the extended definition). Then one would have to compare what they offer.


There is very little difference in the polycentric nature of the Rhein Main and the Sydney Statistical Division. The only major difference is the historical one mentioned above. Mainz and Wiesbaden were traditionally fully independent cities with their own history. Though that is still the case with many major centers in the S.S.D. Parramatta is a great example as it also feels like a seperate city despite being within the urban sprawl. It has all the hallmarks of a city, the town hall, central park and it's own radiating commuter belt.

So what do all these centers in the Rhein Main you speak of, offer more in amenities than the ones in the Sydney Statistical Division?

I know you havn't lived in Sydney but I can assure you that people in that city's metropolitan area don't travel to downtown Sydney unless they are working their or for the odd shopping jaunt to buy something that they can't buy locally, and that second point is rather rare.

Most work somewhere else in the metro area, they shop in their local major shopping district, they go to the movies in their local center, visit their local bars, cafe's and nightclubs etc. There is very little difference between the lifestyle of someone who lives in for example Parramatta, Gosford or Penrith to that of someone in Wiesbaden, Mainz or Darmstadt. These Sydney centers have their own councils, government offices, employers, bus companies, shops, malls, departments stores, restaurants, bars etc. 

If you can honestly tell me something different to why a person in Gosford or Penrith needs to travel to downtown Sydney compared to a person in Wiesbaden then I'm all ears. (or eyes in this case)

There is no doubt how dominant Frankfurt is within the Rhein Main. When people from around the world land at the international airport, they call it Frankfurt (despite if I am correct here, it's not even in Frankfurt). When people around the world talking about the financial capital of Germany and Germany's stock exchange, they say Frankfurt, despite the stock exchange being in the metropolitan area and not in Frankfurt. 

You only have to look at the Rhein Main public transport map and see how dominant Frankfurt is on that. Look at the next two largest cities, Mainz and Wiesbaden. They are so insignificant on the map, it's a bit hard to find for those not from around here. All roads lead to Rome, so to speak.
http://www.rmv.de/coremedia/generat.../PLA__Schnellbahnplan_3Dgr,property=image.gif

What I still find interesting is how you are happy to consider Sydney larger than Frankfurt which means including towns 2hours away from the city center and separated by large national parks, yet you refuse to consider including the population of Offenbach, 3minutes from my local station in Frankfurt, or a 15minute bike ride away and directly connected to the urban area. You count Frankfurt as 660,000 people simply because this is the political boundary and then say it is a small city, but you will treat Sydney completely differently.

That is comparing Apple's and Oranges.

As a person who has personally experienced the polycentric nature of both metropolitan area's, I can assure you that there is very little difference.


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## manba (Jul 23, 2009)

Frankfurt is very beautiful, is organize and clean. And also have a very high level of life.


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## urbane (Jan 4, 2005)

Justme said:


> Thankyou for your reply. I must say though, that the Rhein Main is simply a name. It is a name, no different say to San Francisco's metropolitan area known as the "Bay Area". Yet, despite the polycentric nature of that metro, San Francisco is still the dominant city. And the Bay Area is far more polycentric than the Rhein Main. San Jose is, afterall, these days larger than San Francisco which is something that is not the case in the Rhein Main where Frankfurt is without doubt the largest and most dominant city.
> 
> But you are correct here in the reason for the name. Tradition. Mainz itself predates Frankfurt and many hundreds of years ago, it was even more important. The other centers also have traditions of their own as being fully separate, independent cities.
> 
> ...


I thought I had clarified this with my previous post, but apparently that didn't wor so I will reiterate what my point was and is:
- Comparing metropolitan areas to metropolitan areas (e.g. Berlin and its metro, including Potsdam to the Rhein Main Gebiet) makes sense
- comparing cities doesn't make necessarily sense since their political boundaries are more arbitrary than those of metro areas (which are often defined by commuting). This seems to be especially the case when you take Sydney City with a small area and compare it to Frankfurt city, which is ten times bigger in area. At the same time one has to consider the city's function within its metro area. If you want to make this comparison go ahead but in my opinion you are going nowhere.
- If you want to compare only what the central cores of cities offer, and disregard the suburbs, satellite towns, and rural areas within a metro area then you could compare the central city of a metro area, other major cores, to the central cities of the Rhein Main Gebiet: which includes not only central Frankfurt, but also central Mainz, central Wiesbaden, central Offenbach.

I suppose either we disagree on what I just wrote above, or we misunderstood each other, or we have a fundamental difference in our definition of what an apple and an orange is.

Regarding the degree of how polycentric the Rhein Main Gebiet is in comparison to the London, Berlin, Hamburg, or Sydney metro area, we just disagree. Frankfurt is undoubtedly the largest center in the Rhein Main area, and has the largest economic influence. It's true that's it is a major financial and economic centre (though not as dominant in Germany as London is in the UK). However there are othe employment centres in the Rhein Main Gebiet such as Russelsheim which hosts Opel, Mainz and Wiesbaden which are state capital and wield considerable regional political power in federal Germany. As I have mentioned I don't know Sydney well (by the way, how come London, Berlin, and Hambur have disappeared from your discourse?), so for all I care, even though I have my doubts since I have never heard of a large city in its metro, it may even be as polycentric as the Ruhrgebiet. I would like to know how the Berlin metro, or London, though, for example is as polycentric as the Rhein-Main.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

urbane said:


> I thought I had clarified this with my previous post, but apparently that didn't wor so I will reiterate what my point was and is:
> - Comparing metropolitan areas to metropolitan areas (e.g. Berlin and its metro, including Potsdam to the Rhein Main Gebiet) makes sense
> - comparing cities doesn't make necessarily sense since their political boundaries are more arbitrary than those of metro areas (which are often defined by commuting). This seems to be especially the case when you take Sydney City with a small area and compare it to Frankfurt city, which is ten times bigger in area. At the same time one has to consider the city's function within its metro area. If you want to make this comparison go ahead but in my opinion you are going nowhere.


Well, we agree on something here. I also would never compare directly a city proper with a city proper for that exact reason. They are only political boundary's and do not in any way reflect the demographic reality of a city. 

But I never done this, which is your claim above. This all started because you said I shouldn't compare Frankfurt to Sydney because Frankfurt was several times smaller. Which is actually incorrect. 



urbane said:


> - If you want to compare only what the central cores of cities offer, and disregard the suburbs, satellite towns, and rural areas within a metro area then you could compare the central city of a metro area, other major cores, to the central cities of the Rhein Main Gebiet: which includes not only central Frankfurt, but also central Mainz, central Wiesbaden, central Offenbach.


Exactly what I was trying to do. So we agree here once again. Using Sydney again, their respective metropolitan area's are both very similar in population and land size. 



urbane said:


> Regarding the degree of how polycentric the Rhein Main Gebiet is in comparison to the London, Berlin, Hamburg, or Sydney metro area, we just disagree. Frankfurt is undoubtedly the largest center in the Rhein Main area, and has the largest economic influence. It's true that's it is a major financial and economic centre (though not as dominant in Germany as London is in the UK). However there are othe employment centres in the Rhein Main Gebiet such as Russelsheim which hosts Opel, Mainz and Wiesbaden which are state capital and wield considerable regional political power in federal Germany. As I have mentioned I don't know Sydney well (by the way, how come London, Berlin, and Hambur have disappeared from your discourse?), so for all I care, even though I have my doubts since I have never heard of a large city in its metro, it may even be as polycentric as the Ruhrgebiet. I would like to know how the Berlin metro, or London, though, for example is as polycentric as the Rhein-Main.


Come on here. Now this is nick picking. Look at the length of my posts above and you can clearly see why I concentrated on one city. If I started to give descriptions on every city I know the posts would have been much longer than they were and they were long enough for a discussion which has by the way gone quite off topic.

It is a bit unfair to the original poster of this wonderful thread that we start taking over the discussion and moving it to demographic debates.


This all started because I brought up the fact that I thought Frankfurt was a little boring and uninspirational for a city it's size and mentioned that other cities I have lived in basically try a bit harder. But then you didn't see how they could be compared because they were larger.

Yes, London is far larger, fair enough, but Sydney isn't quite frankly and size isn't everything. I know many smaller cities that put in a bigger effort and have more forward thinking than Frankfurt. Which was a comment that perfectly fitted into the original discussion of this thread. I find the city center of Frankfurt to be quite basic and uninteresting compared to other city's I have lived in. However, this thread was about the other area's in Frankfurt outside of downtown, and I also believe that once someone gets outside of downtown, Frankfurt becomes a lovely place, and the photos here show it.

Just a pity downtown is nothing special.


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## kato2k8 (May 4, 2008)

urbane said:


> Interestingly when you talk about the Rhein Main Gebiet, you write the "Frankfurt's Rhein Main Gebiet". Well, I beg to differ on that: there is a reason it's called the Rhein Main Gebiet and not Frankfurt's Metropolitan area


The Metropolitan Region is nominally called "Frankfurt / Rhein-Main".

Of course technically, the metropolitan region of Frankfurt / Rhein-Main is probably the worst organized in Germany, with next to zero political cohesion, and only limited cooperation. There isn't even a defined area for the metropolitan region, but everyone who wants to see Rhein-Main as a region (IHK etc) makes up their own definition.

Technically, the only politically defined "region" of Frankfurt is the Planungsverband Ballungsraum Frankfurt/Rhein-Main, which includes about 2.2 million people on about 2500 km², but does not include Wiesbaden/Mainz or Darmstadt (which are also separate Eurostat statistical LUZ btw).

And Sydney is denser than that - containing 3.5-3.6 million people within the "urban centre" of the SSD defined at about 1700 km².


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

kato2k8 said:


> Technically, the only politically defined "region" of Frankfurt is the Planungsverband Ballungsraum Frankfurt/Rhein-Main, which includes about 2.2 million people on about 2500 km², but does not include Wiesbaden/Mainz or Darmstadt (which are also separate Eurostat statistical LUZ btw).
> 
> And Sydney is denser than that - containing 3.5-3.6 million people within the "urban centre" of the SSD defined at about 1700 km².


That figure for Sydney is correct, but actually missleading when you compare with the one you state for Frankfurt. 

There is no international standard for defining urban area's. What one city or country uses, can be totally different to how another city calculates. In some country's they may define a limit of 200meters before the urban area is considered at it's end, it other country's this maybe 150meters, 300meters 500meters etc. Some include crossing rivers or waterways, others don't.

Also, as you say, the Frankfurt urban area you include doesn't actually include Wiesbaden or Mainz. This would be included in the Sydney urban method as using their calculation the small gaps wouldn't be enough to separate them.


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

Any recent photos from Frankfurt?


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## cameronpaul (Jan 15, 2010)

Don't really know what all these comparisons between Frankfurt's population and other cities has to do with a photo thread like this.
I've not been to the city but it sure looks good here and I've heard from others that it is a good place to live, not being too touristy is always a plus if you live in a European city - who would want to live permanently in Venice or Barcelona for instance - not me for sure! Paris and London are large enough to cope, most are not.
More photos please.


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## Benonie (Dec 21, 2005)

Very nice. I knew Frankfurt has got some olderneighbourhoods, but we hardle see them here. Nice pictures!
And I didn't know the city has got palm trees...


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

Benonie said:


> Very nice. I knew Frankfurt has got some olderneighbourhoods, but we hardle see them here. Nice pictures!
> And I didn't know the city has got palm trees...


The Palm Trees generally go inside in winter or are heavily protected. Frankfurt does have a lovely Botanical Garden called the Palmengarten which has a good collection of Palms and Cacti in greenhouses.


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## erbse (Nov 8, 2006)

How about some refill, fenomeno?


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## Bockenheimer (Mar 13, 2016)

For those who are interested in seeing more of Frankfurt outside the banking district, I can recommend the following link.


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