# Biggest cities in the world before the 19th century?



## Mr Bricks (May 6, 2005)

From the beginning of the 1800s to 1925 London was the biggest city in the world. From 1925 to 1965 NYC took over and after that it has always been Tokyo. My question is: Which cities were the biggest before the beginning of the 19th century? What I know is that ancient Rome was home to over 2 million people and that that it took 2000 years before London beat this record!!

We are comparing cities of the past so I think it´s quite impossible for this thread to turn into a city vs. city argument.


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## Tubeman (Sep 12, 2002)

Angkor in Cambodia reached c.1 million at its zenith in the 11th century I believe


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## wjfox (Nov 1, 2002)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_urban_community_sizes


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## Mr Bricks (May 6, 2005)

Thanks


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

Angkor reached 2 million Ive heard.

Rome was only ever 500,000 (the first city to reach that mark I think). Previous estimates that it was 1 million had to be downsized after new findings showed it was considerably smaller and less dense.

I think the longest time a worlds biggest city title has been held was by either Beijing with 600,000 or Hangzhou with over a million, for centuries. Anyone got any real stats??


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## Mr Bricks (May 6, 2005)

Rome has been estimated to have had 700 000 - 3 million during the peak of the Roman Empire. Most researchers belive the population was little over 2 million.


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

It's amazing to see how London, like England, grew dramatically in the 1600's. It had only 50,000 people in 1500 and was half the size of Paris in 1600. Yet, it had surpassed Paris' population in 1700. 

I gues London's relatively small size pre-1500, and the fires, wars, etc., account for it architecturally being dominated by structures from the 1700's, 1800's and 1900's. 

Anyway, it will be interesting to witness how, in the 21st Century, cities like Shanghai and Mumbai will parallel London's dramatic growth in the 17th Century.


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## wjfox (Nov 1, 2002)

LLoydGeorge said:


> It's amazing to see how London, like England, grew dramatically in the 1600's. It had only 50,000 people in 1500 and was half the size of Paris in 1600. Yet, it had surpassed Paris' population in 1700.


Its growth was even more dramatic in the 1800's. From less than a million in 1800, to six and a half million in 1900.

That's a sixfold increase!


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

wjfox2002 said:


> Its growth was even more dramatic in the 1800's. From less than a million in 1800, to six and a half million in 1900.
> 
> That's a sixfold increase!


True. However, that is to be expected since after Napolean's defeat, Britain became the world's sole superpower and enjoyed 100 years of peace.


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## Mekky II (Oct 29, 2003)

the spliff fairy said:


> Angkor reached 2 million Ive heard.
> 
> Rome was only ever 500,000 (the first city to reach that mark I think). Previous estimates that it was 1 million had to be downsized after new findings showed it was considerably smaller and less dense.
> 
> I think the longest time a worlds biggest city title has been held was by either Beijing with 600,000 or Hangzhou with over a million, for centuries. Anyone got any real stats??


People that believe Rome was very big is that Roman Empire did have half of world population ! ( and it is something unmatched, it's like if today we would have a country with 3 billions people !) ...


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## Guest (Dec 11, 2006)

Mekky II said:


> People that believe Rome was very big is that Roman Empire did have half of world population ! ( and it is something unmatched, it's like if today we would have a country with 3 billions people !) ...



Lets not forget ...



> The British Empire was the most extensive empire in world history, having had the largest Landmass, Population and GDP of any empire in world history. For a substantial time it was not only a major power but also the foremost power in the world. It was a product of the European age of discovery, which began with the maritime explorations of the 15th century, that inaugurated the era of the European colonial empires.
> 
> By 1913, the British Empire held sway over a population of about 458 million people, approximately one-quarter of the world's population.[1] It covered about 36.6 million km² (14.2 million square miles)[2], about a quarter of Earth's total land area. Though it has now mostly evolved into the Commonwealth of Nations, British influence remains strong throughout the world: in economic practice, legal and governmental systems, society, sports (such as cricket and football), and the English language itself, to name just a few.
> 
> Because of its size at the peak of its power, it was often said that "the sun never sets on the British Empire" because the empire's span across the globe ensured that the sun was always shining on at least one of its numerous colonies.


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## ajmstilt (Sep 10, 2006)

"The sun never set on the British Empire, because God doesn't trust the English in the dark"



this is the largest city in the worlsd through history list. 

City, Year Became #1 Population Information 

Memphis, Egypt 3100 BCE Well over 30,000 
Akkad, Babylonia (Iraq) 2240 
Lagash, Babylonia (Iraq) 2075 
Ur, Babylonia (Iraq) 2030 65,000 
Thebes, Egypt 1980 
Babylon, Babylonia (Iraq) 1770 
Avaris, Egypt 1670 
Memphis, Egypt 1557 
Thebes, Egypt 1400 
Nineveh, Assyria (Iraq) 668 
Babylon, Babylonia (Iraq) 612 First above 200,000 
Alexandria 320 
Pataliputra (Patna), India 300 
Changan (Xi'an), China 195 400,000 
Rome 25 450,000 (100 CE) 
Constantinople (Istanbul), Turkey 340 CE 400,000 (500) 
Ctesiphon, Iraq 570 
Changan (Xi'an), China 637 400,000 (622); 600,000 (800) 
Baghdad, Iraq 775 First over 1 million; 700,000 (800) 
Cordova, Spain 935 
Kaifeng, China 1013 400,000 (1000); 442,000 (1100) 
Constantinople (Istanbul), Turkey 1127 
Merv (Mary), Turkmenistan 1145 200,000 (1150) 
Constantinople (Istanbul), Turkey 1153 
Fez (Fes), Morocco 1170 
Hangzhou, China 1180 255,000 (1200); 320,000 (1250) 
Cairo, Egypt 1315 
Hangzhou, China 1348 432,000 (1350) 
Nanking, China 1358 487,000 (1400) 
Beijing, China 1425 600,000 (1450); 672,000 (1500) 
Constantinople (Istanbul), Turkey 1650 700,000 (1650 & 1700) 
Beijing, China 1710 900,000 (1750); 1.1 million (1800) 
London, United Kingdom 1825 First over 5 million; 1.35 million (1825); 2.32 million (1850); 4.241 million (1875); 6.480 million (1900) 
New York 1925 First over 10 million; 7.774 million (1925), 12.463 million (1950) 
Tokyo 1965 First over 20 million; 23 million (1975)


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

SuomiPoika said:


> From the beginning of the 1800s to 1925 London was the biggest city in the world. From 1925 to 1965 NYC took over and after that it has always been Tokyo. My question is: Which cities were the biggest before the beginning of the 19th century? What I know is that ancient Rome was home to over 2 million people and that that it took 2000 years before London beat this record!!
> 
> We are comparing cities of the past so I think it´s quite impossible for this thread to turn into a city vs. city argument.


I think Shanghai and Mexico City had their titles before Tokyo.


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## Fallout (Sep 11, 2002)

SimLim said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Mekky II View Post
> People that believe Rome was very big is that Roman Empire did have half of world population ! ( and it is something unmatched, it's like if today we would have a country with 3 billions people !) ...
> 
> ...


Rome and china also controlled one quarter of world's population at their peak, and Mongol Empire ruled like half of world's population for a time. And what about GDP? Unites States made about half of world's GDP after world war two.


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## wjfox (Nov 1, 2002)

The Rome, Chinese and Mongol empires were nowhere near as widespread though, in terms of spreading around the globe. Anyway, back on topic please.


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

Mongol Empire was from the gates of Vienna in the West to India in the south and Korea in the East and arctic Russia in the North.


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## Mekky II (Oct 29, 2003)

"The Mongol Empire was the largest *land* empire in world history, covering over 33 million km² at its peak, with an estimated population of over 100 million people."

"The British Empire was the most *extensive* empire in world history, having had the largest *Landmass*."

________________________________________

"By 1913, the British Empire held sway over a population of about 458 million people, approximately one-quarter of the world's population."

Roman Empire is unmatched for the pourcentage of world population. 

Cheers.


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## Kenwen (May 1, 2005)

wjfox2002 said:


> The Rome, Chinese and Mongol empires were nowhere near as widespread though, in terms of spreading around the globe. Anyway, back on topic please.


so what, they control most of the civilize world which is more powerful than control some babarian nations


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## Tubeman (Sep 12, 2002)

ajmstilt said:


> "The sun never set on the British Empire, because God doesn't trust the English in the dark"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


BACK ON TOPIC...

Where's Angkor on this list?

It was at its peak between roughly 900 and 1100CE and even if the 2 million figure is a gross overestimate it must have at least been big enough to make the list? I'm pretty sure 1 million is a fairly widely accepted figure... the sheer scale of the area concerned and size of the buildings / engineering feats like the moat around Angkor Wat seem to suggest it was a very substanital city.

Angkor Wat from space, the scale of the earthworks to create the square moat alone is staggering;


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## Saigoneseguy (Mar 6, 2005)

^^^ That is Angkor Wat, Angkor Thom is even 5 times larger than that.


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## castermaild55 (Sep 8, 2005)

Edo

begining of 19c......1,4000,000



> Edo consequently rapidly grew from what had been a small, virtually unknown fishing village in 1457 to a metropolis of 680,000 residents by 1700, one of the five largest cities in the world at the time.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edo


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

Tubeman said:


> Do you speak any Khmer?


I do.


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