# Rival cities



## Copperknickers (May 15, 2011)

What is the most famous city rivalry in your country/region? What are the differences between the two cities? I'm especially interested in cities which are very close to each other:

My top 5:


1. Glasgow and Edinburgh, Scotland

Glasgow is Scotland's biggest city, Edinburgh is the capital city. Edinburgh of course is more well known worldwide and has the Festival, the world's largest arts and music festival. Arguably Edinburgh is more picturesque, but Glasgow has largely come through its industrial grittiness and it's post-industrial rough patch and is now one of Europe's 'hipster' cities, with a great music scene and an improving cityscape and culinary scene. 

The two cities are less than an hour's drive/train journey away from each other, although in my experience the denizens of either city rarely visit the other, although many wealthier Glaswegians attend Edinburgh university and attend the Festival, and young people from Edinburgh often have to travel to Glasgow to attend music tours by foreign artists, and large sport events, due to Glasgow's superior facilities in these regards. Glasgow is also home to Scotland's two main football teams, the famous 'Old Firm', as well as the Royal Conservatoire of Scotland, one of the world's top 10 music and drama colleges and the alma mater of pretty much every Scottish actor you will see. 

Typical Glasgow suburb








https://peoplemakeglasgow.nl/images/Discover/Districts/districts-995.jpg

Typical Edinburgh suburb








https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/4e/70/38/4e7038e518bd4e441f2c4883ccb1b97b.jpg

2. Liverpool and Manchester
Two more extremely close cities: the metropolitan areas are almost overlapping with each other and it's difficult to say where one ends and the other begins. Both are part of the 'Lancashire' region of Northern England, and both have similar histories as 19th century industrial cities swelled with Irish immigration. For some reason however, the two cities have totally unique accents, especially the Liverpool one. The two disparagingly refer to each other as 'Scousers' and 'Mancs', although their official demonms are 'Liverpudlians' and 'Mancunians'. 

Unlike Glasgow and Edinburgh, Liverpool and Manchester do have a major football rivalry, perhaps the biggest in England (although softened a little recently by the rise of Manchester City, and the fall of Liverpool FC). A friend of mine once had the following to say on the divide:

'My grandparents came over from Dublin just after the war. The group of Irish divided into two lines, one going on the bus into Liverpool, the other going on the train over to Manchester. They knew little about the two cities, but decided to get on the train as they had never been on one before. And that's how close I came to being a Scouser. Thank **** they made the right decision.' :lol:

3. Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo

I know little about these two cities, except that their rivalry is mentioned in the film 'City of God' and I love that movie. The situation is similar to Glasgow and Edinburgh I believe: one is much larger and more 'plain' but increasingly a centre of culture and business, the other is smaller and more touristy (if you can refer to Rio as 'small', it's about the same population as London iirc). I think in its own way Sao Paulo is pretty spectacular, not least it's huge number of highrises.

4. Melbourne and Sydney

Most countries have one obvious 'primate city' with no clear rival. Australia is different in this regard, since, not counting its tiny capital city, it has two major cities. They aren't very close to each other, but are nearly identical in population, each with an amazing culture, culinary, music, cosmopolitan mix and good higher education. Sydney is perhaps a little bit more 'photogenic' and famous, but Melbourne is rather pretty too:









https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/f7/cf/2e/filename-110731-federationsquare.jpg

Melbourne

5. Oxford and Cambridge

One of the oldest city rivalries in the world. Small cities, and not ridiculously close, but with a rather unique source of conflict: two of the best universities on the planet. Cambridge is slightly smaller, and these days has a marginally better academic reputation: Oxford feels more like a 'mini-city' and is just a little bit more prestigious, with a greater number of prime ministers to its name (of Britain and elsewhere). They also have the famous boat race, as well as the less famous Varsity rugby match. 









https://editor.williamhillplc.com/r...p&width=528&height=289&rnd=130711536710000000


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## Darryl (Jan 14, 2007)

Your bias in favor of Glasgow is obvious. Haha. I've been to Edinburgh and loved it. I would love to visit Glasgow one day as well.

I think that the comparison of Baltimore and Washington DC is VERY similar to Glasgow and Edinburgh. In some ways almost identical. Washington is the capital like Edinburgh. Baltimore has an industrial past like Glasgow. Baltimore is much more quirky, creative, artistic, funky, than DC. Baltimore is a hipster city whereas DC is more a yuppie city. The two cities are only 40 miles (64.37 km) from each other. Baltimore gets completely overshadowed by the power and prestige of DC. There is only a "rivalry" from one side because DC is too snobby to give a damn about Baltimore, but Baltimore feels they offer so much that is not fully appreciated due to the proximity to the capital city that overshadows them.

It's interesting to see how night and day different two cities that are so close to each other are. The two feel completely different. I can think of very few similarities between the two.


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## Eric Offereins (Jan 1, 2004)

Amsterdam (finacial capital and historical city center, home to Ajax football club)









source: http://www.iamsterdam.com/en/visiting/about-amsterdam

vs Rotterdam (Europes largest port and a modern skyline, home to Feyenoord football club). 


















(own)


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## alexandru.mircea (May 18, 2011)

Copperknickers said:


> Typical Glasgow suburb
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I see what you did there. :lol:

Some city rivalries that I can think of: Lyon vs Saint-Etienne (this wouldn't really be a rivalry as there is no comparison between the cities themselves, but on the football pitch the small and green neighbours of Lyon just don't want to go away :lol: ), Florence and Venice (possibly the greatest rivalry in art ideology, with the mention that by the time of the rise of Venice many of the artists of the Florentine school were based in Rome), Naples and Rome (the basis of this rivalry escapes me, maybe it's simply because Rome is the closest of the mre Northern and richer cities of Italy), but the big one is Paris v London, who are amazingly close for such key capital cities in the history of mankind. I bet it's also the worst city vs city flame war subject here on SSC.


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## ssiguy2 (Feb 19, 2005)

In Canada it's definitely Toronto & Montreal. Montreal up until 40 years ago was Canada's largest and most important city but obviously Toronto has overtaken it. What makes it more interesting is that one is English and one is French wo there is a real cultural war as well. 

Outside of that, in Canada, there only other 2 real rivals are Calgary and Edmonton. Both in Alberta and heavily dependent on oil, almost exactly the same size, though Edmonton use to be the largest and now it's Calgary but both metros are around 1.4 million. Calgary is the big head office city as exemplified by it's amazing skyline and has a better urban form wile Edmonton is the academic and cultural centre and also the provincial capitol.


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

Italy is famous for its "campanilismi" (a word which derivates from Italian word "campanile", ie the "bell tower" in English language). There are thousands and thousands bell towers in every Italian village/town/city: each campanile is a sort of symbol that represents a community. The "campanilismo" symbolizes a sense of identity, of pride, and of belonging to your birthplace or place where you live. There are still deeply rooted rivalries between different regions, provinces, towns, and neighborhoods! The "campanilismo" also symbolizes an adherence to the traditions, customs and dialects of ones own region.

There is a very long list of historical rival cities (due to different reasons), but I can cite just a few... :cheers:

* Rome vs Milan
* Florence vs Siena
* Pisa vs Livorno
* Bergamo vs Brescia
* Naples vs Salerno
* Udine vs Trieste 
* Palermo vs Catania
* Bari vs Lecce


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## matago (Sep 5, 2015)

Its not my country or region, so i'm not the best judge, but I was in HAN this year, so some insight:

Hanoi vs Ho Chi Minh (Saigon)

Going back into 20th century history, we all know about the conflict between North and South Vietnam, where one of these two cities would emerge triumphant. Today, Hanoi is the political capital, whilst Saigon, now Ho Chi Minh City, is the country's economic powerhouse. Both are culturally significant in their own ways - the former more tradional and the latter more contemporary and cosmopolitan. HCMC is slightly bigger, but Hanoi is not far behind.


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## Yuri S Andrade (Sep 29, 2008)

I've opened a while ago a thread with a similar subject, the Power Shift. First post is about Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo:



Yuri S Andrade said:


> This phenomenon of cities changing position as largest of a country/region/province always interested me. I started this discussion here, but I think is a thread-worth.
> 
> Let's start with
> 
> ...


P.S. Pics of typical Glasgow and Edinburgh! :lol:


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

ssiguy2 said:


> In Canada it's definitely Toronto & Montreal. Montreal up until 40 years ago was Canada's largest and most important city but obviously Toronto has overtaken it. What makes it more interesting is that one is English and one is French wo there is a real cultural war as well.


There's a strong inclination to name Montreal and Toronto as rivals but I'm not sure it's true any more. What ever perceived competition existed has given way to mutual admiration. As both Canadian metros grow bigger and stronger I feel their gaze increasingly falls beyond our borders. Toronto views its rivals as London, Melbourne, and New York. Montreal? Maybe Paris, Berlin, and Rome.

Besides the Calgary - Edmonton rivalry within Canada, there's likely one between Regina and Saskatoon. In the Maritimes, it was historically Halifax - Saint John although it's increasingly Halifax - Moncton.


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## bongo-anders (Oct 26, 2008)

In Denmark our second city Aarhus hates Copenhagen for some reason and sees them as a fierce rival. 

Copenhagen being 5-6 times larger (350.000 vs 2 million) doesn't care much about what Aarhus is doing or saying. 

Copenhagen on the other hand has a rivalry with Sweden 's Stockholm. 

Both cities has a metro area of around 2 million people but Stockholm collects from an area almost twice as big so some Copenhageners think that they are bigger. 

Oslo in Norway try' s to be part of this fight but with a size that are twice as small they are pretty much ignored by the 2 others. 

Stockholms most irritating thing is their claim as being "capital of Scandinavia" and the other way around is the fact that Copenhagen Airport is the largest and most important airport in Scandinavia.


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## LosAngelesSportsFan (Oct 20, 2004)

Here are a few for the US, mostly sports based honestly

LA - SF
LA - NY
LA - SD
NY - Bos
NY - Phi
Chi - St Louis
Chi - Det
Dallas - DC
Seattle - Portland
Seattle - SF


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## 009 (Nov 28, 2007)

isaidso said:


> There's a strong inclination to name Montreal and Toronto as rivals but I'm not sure it's true any more. What ever perceived competition existed has given way to mutual admiration. As both Canadian metros grow bigger and stronger I feel their gaze increasingly falls beyond our borders. *Toronto views its rivals as London*, Melbourne, and* New York*. Montreal? Maybe Paris, Berlin, and Rome.
> 
> Besides the Calgary - Edmonton rivalry within Canada, there's likely one between Regina and Saskatoon. In the Maritimes, it was historically Halifax - Saint John although it's increasingly Halifax - Moncton.


:lol::lol::lol: Toronto isn't even on the radar for those cities


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## schorsch (Dec 26, 2012)

In Germany:

Cologne - Düsseldorf
Munich - Stuttgart
Dresden - Leipzig
Mainz - Wiesbaden
Mannheim - Ludwigshafen
...


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

009 said:


> Toronto isn't even on the radar for those cities


Toronto's an ambitious city that's confident in itself and where it's heading. If some other place is too busy navel gazing, that's their problem. Besides, I'd take more stock in the Economist, Price Waterhouse Coopers, etc. than what 'Joe Schmo Aguascalientes' on the street thinks.


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## Yuri S Andrade (Sep 29, 2008)

London and New York dwarf Toronto in every single respect. Their population and GDP are several times bigger. It's a completely different league. Toronto is where Dallas, Houston, Atlanta or Miami are.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Quantitatively Toronto is smaller but that's an extremely simplistic way of gauging things. Amsterdam and Stockholm only have 2.4 million people but they are further ahead than Miami, Atlanta, Houston, and Dallas. One only needs to walk around those cities for a few days and its plain as day. 

Population and GDP alone can give one a very warped sense of things. Chicago is larger than Toronto by those 2 measures but Toronto arguably moved past Chicago by most other metrics a decade ago. There are a myriad things that factor in. I've had enough discussions with you to know that we don't see this the same way so we'll have to agree to disagree.


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## DZH22 (Aug 9, 2009)

Boston vs NYC for sports rivalries
Boston vs Philly & Washington DC for 2nd place city in the Northeast Megalopolis 
Boston vs San Francisco for education, tech, best "Bay City" in US
Boston vs Montreal for historical architecture, walkability, skyline (also our hockey teams hate each other)
Boston vs Atlanta for Superbowl 51!
Boston vs The World for hometown pride, bordering on arrogance (example: we call our city "The Hub")


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## kwonphilip (Jun 7, 2011)

I cannot imagine how Amsterdam and Stockholm are ahead of Miami or DFW. I mean, they have the advantages of being larger relative to their country (Stockholm even being the primate city of Sweden). Walking just gives a lead to the urbanity of a city or region, which is much less important than either population or economy.


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## FabriFlorence (Sep 29, 2004)

In Spain definitely Madrid vs. Barcelona.


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## julesstoop (Sep 11, 2002)

kwonphilip said:


> I cannot imagine how Amsterdam and Stockholm are ahead of Miami or DFW. I mean, they have the advantages of being larger relative to their country (Stockholm even being the primate city of Sweden). Walking just gives a lead to the urbanity of a city or region, which is much less important than either population or economy.


This gives an idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city
It ranks Amsterdam in 'Alpha' category, Stockholm and Miami together in the tier just below (Alpha minus), and Dallas one tier below again (Beta plus). 

The criteria for lists like this are surely somewhat arbitrary, but obviously not random and they do have a rather sound or at least defendable methodical justification.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

^^ Agree. Size is important but it doesn't tell the whole story.


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## Cedar Teeth (Nov 15, 2008)

Havana vs Miami

Both are Latino cities but while Havana is more historical than Miami, Miami has more of a mixture of different latino groups.


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## alexandru.mircea (May 18, 2011)

I've been told that the "global city" ranking is based solely on office space, not sure how true that is but I pass it on to you.


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## julesstoop (Sep 11, 2002)

Here's what they ('A.T. Kearney' ) claim themselves:



> About Global Cities 2016
> 
> The A.T. Kearney Global Cities Index (GCI) ranks 125 cities according to 27 metrics across five dimensions, including business activity, human capital, information exchange, cultural experience, and political engagement.


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## Yuri S Andrade (Sep 29, 2008)

isaidso said:


> Quantitatively Toronto is smaller but that's an extremely simplistic way of gauging things. Amsterdam and Stockholm only have 2.4 million people but they are further ahead than Miami, Atlanta, Houston, and Dallas. One only needs to walk around those cities for a few days and its plain as day.
> 
> Population and GDP alone can give one a very warped sense of things. Chicago is larger than Toronto by those 2 measures but Toronto arguably moved past Chicago by most other metrics a decade ago. There are a myriad things that factor in. I've had enough discussions with you to know that we don't see this the same way so we'll have to agree to disagree.


Such as? I fail to see where Toronto is ahead Chicago, let alone challenging London or New York.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Yuri S Andrade said:


> Such as? I fail to see where Toronto is ahead Chicago, let alone challenging London or New York.


I know you don't that's why I made a point of stating the following: 

*"I've had enough discussions with you to know that we don't see this the same way so we'll have to agree to disagree."*

When someone doesn't see things the same way after countless back and forth it becomes pointless to keep going around in circles. Are you under the impression that when people stop debating with you that it means that you've convinced them?

As you've 'gone there' any way I may as well state my position yet again. It's not about challenging another city in a strict dollar to dollar/population to population comparison. You seem stuck on those 2 metrics. There are cities of various size that are all competing for the same capital and talent. When cities move beyond being national or regional in scope they start competing on the global stage. They differ in GDP and population but they're all on the same playing field. 

Toronto, New York, San Francisco, Mexico City, Sao Paulo, London, Paris, Stockholm, Berlin, Amsterdam, Moscow, Istanbul, Johannesburg, Dubai, Mumbai, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Jakarta, Tokyo, Seoul, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Beijing, and Melbourne are all global cities in an intensifying battle for influence, wealth, and power. I may have missed a few.

Some are incumbents like London and New York while the rest are attempting to close the gap. The duopoly that existed for most of the 20th century is coming to a close. We're moving to a polycentric world with 20-30 big global cities with a great deal of parity across the board. It will take a few decades to unfold and there's been tons of literature written on this very subject. Predictably some cities are too busy navel gazing to acknowledge the changing landscape.

*The prevailing attitude here*


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Cedar Teeth said:


> Havana vs Miami
> 
> Both are Latino cities but while Havana is more historical than Miami, Miami has more of a mixture of different latino groups.


Culturally there are obvious parallels but not beyond that.


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## 009 (Nov 28, 2007)

Toronto can respectably compete with Philly and Boston but to suggest it's on the level of London and NYC is an absolute joke


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## Fabio1976 (Nov 9, 2007)

Barcelona - Madrid. Barça - Real......


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## AbidM (Apr 12, 2014)

Dhaka vs Kolkata, always come up.


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## The Polwoman (Feb 21, 2016)

And there I am with those tiny villages called Tilburg and Breda, who mostly work together but when the person from the other city says "football", the room is silenced to death. And Tilburg can eat the skin of Den Bosch alive as a consequence of their arrogance, which is also represented in our unrepresentative local newspaper. I want news about Eindhoven and Breda, not about tiny villages around Den Bosch!

Same goes for Surabaya versus Malang, they work pretty well together but just don't talk about football as a bonek in Malang.

Eindhoven, in contrast, is on another level. They rival with Amsterdam and Rotterdam with football while both cities play no actual role in technology. Amsterdam pretends to be an innovative city but the academic ties with Silicon Valley are much closer, mostly rivalling with a small selection of other European cities.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

009 said:


> Toronto can respectably compete with Philly and Boston but to suggest it's on the level of London and NYC is an absolute joke


Academics who study global cities would beg to differ. Global cities of varying sizes already directly compete for the same pool of capital and talent. What on earth do you think all those global city studies are for? 

You seem to be under the impression that being a rival means means a city has pulled even on all counts. It doesn't.


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## alexandru.mircea (May 18, 2011)

Speaking of that, Montreal just got declared the best international student city in the world.


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## sebvill (Apr 13, 2005)

Ive always see Toronto the level of Chicago, though Chicago is more famous overall.

Chicago historically has been the largest city around the lakes, today however its name is a bit diminished due to violence and being part of the rust belt.


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## HAPPYSOD (Oct 27, 2016)

NYC and London


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## HAPPYSOD (Oct 27, 2016)

Melbourne & Sydney


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## Copperknickers (May 15, 2011)

DZH22 said:


> Boston vs NYC for sports rivalries
> Boston vs Philly & Washington DC for 2nd place city in the Northeast Megalopolis
> Boston vs San Francisco for education, tech, best "Bay City" in US
> Boston vs Montreal for historical architecture, walkability, skyline (also our hockey teams hate each other)
> ...


I hope to visit Boston soon. When I do, will it be possible to pahk my cah in the Hahvad yahd? :banana:

Dhaka/Kolkata, mentioned above, is an interesting one. I understand Dhaka has now overtaken Kolkata in number of inhabitants. And of course Dhaka is the capital of its country whereas Kolkata is now only a regional capital. And of course both cities have unfortunately very bad reputations as regards living standards: In the 60s and 70s Kolkata was a byword for developing world slums and overpopulation, but these days Dhaka has been ranked the least liveable major city in the world outside of a warzone. Nevertheless Kolkata has seen huge improvements in the past 30 years even if it still has a very long way to go, and Dhaka is increasingly an important city for international business as Bangladesh moves on from its troubled past and becomes a massive economic power. Bangladesh after all is the world's 8th most populous country, and the Bengali speaking region as a whole would be the world's 4th most populous country if it were united under an independent state. 

Another interesting one is Dubai/Abu Dhabi. I don't know if there's a major rivalry between Jakarta and Manila but one would imagine so: capitals of the two largest countries of the Australasian archipelago. Perhaps the rivalry is slightly overshadowed by the presence of Singapore. I think some rivalries are three way: for example Oslo/Stockholm/Copenhagen for top Scandinavian city, or Hamburg/Frankfurt/Munich for top German city after Berlin. And then you have cases like Brazzaville/Kinshasa, Buda/Pest where two cities are so close they are effectively the same city, albeit with a fierce rivalry.


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## spansko (Feb 21, 2014)

Belgrade vs Sofia is a newly developing rivalry in the Balkans, much more evenly matched than the previous Belgrade vs Zagreb


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## NewOrleansRush (Aug 30, 2004)

New Orleans v Houston

Two completely different sets of values for these two mega ports on the oil rich gulf coast. Houstonians love to visit New Orleans, yet look down on the city as dirty, crime infested, and poor. New Orleanians loath everything Houston stands for like endless strip mall sprawl, soulless culture, coveting money above all else, and lack of historical preservation. Although, I believe both citizens are deep down envious in many ways.


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## Mr_Dru (Dec 15, 2008)

_In the Netherlands_

*Amsterdam vs. Rotterdam*

_Both cities are very important for the Dutch economy. _
Amsterdam: financial, tourism and Schiphol (3th of Europe)
Rotterdam: Industry, Harbor (1st of Europe)

_Both cities have the same amount of inhabitants._
Amsterdam 850.000 (metro 2.5 million)
Rotterdam 640.000 (metro 2.3 million)

_And then of course the rivalry in football. _
Ajax Amsterdam and Feyenoord Rotterdam were both succesfull in the past. Both clubs win the national league as well win the European Cup 1 and the EufaCup. The riverly was so intense, that in the '90 supporters died in confrontations. Since then the supporters of both clubs may not attends away-matches between Ajax and Feyenoord. 

_The most readed newspapers in the Netherlands comes from Amsterdam and Rotterdam._
Amsterdam: De Telegraaf (The Telegraph)
Rotterdam: AD Algemeen Dagblad

_020 vs. 010_
010 and 020 is the phone-netnumber. If you say 020, the people in the Netherlands know its Amsterdam. Or 010 wins a match. The most people know its about Rotterdam winning a game. Even in the newspaper headlines (Telegraaf and AD) they rather write 010/020 instead of Rotterdam/Amsterdam. De Telegraaf will write the 010 economy is growing, or the AD will write the 020 policemen's are using violence. Its very stupid, but we know by the number what city they means.


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## Smart City (Jul 1, 2016)

spansko said:


> Budapest vs Belgrade  come on man be.serious. Not.even.Bucharest.comes close.to Budapest. Belgrade is actually behind Sofia.and.Zagreb.on many relevant criteria, such as BDP per capita, municipal budget, foreign investment...


You don't understand,i m talking about geostrategic,historic and development creteria.How close these euro metroplis are,Belgrade and Budapest are close to same size 2.milions,same corridor,same on Danube river,Belgrade advantage is on two rivers Danube and Sava.Budapest is classy city,Belgrade with two rivers charm,and modern.Big development and investment project are on going.So we don t talk which city is richer than other,couse' Wienna is for sure in huge advantage to all. Foreign investment in Belgrade is actually a head of these cityes.Bank of china headquter is in Belgrade.Belgrade is also D.C for Balkans ,the bigest embassyes from U.s.a,Eu,Russia,China,Asia,Africa,Arabs are all in Belgrade,to emphisize its strategic importance.
P.S Sorry ,where is Bucharest? It is so far from this region,Bucharest is like an alien city to us.  And Sofia? just too far from ex yu territories to be consider as significant point.It is more Skopje vs Sofia to tell the truth.








*Belgrade waterfront new center,Skyline,Airport city ..project on going..and many others.*
Sorry, i don t see such a big project on each city you ve mentioned before.Budapest,Sofia,Zagreb,Bucharest..Let me remind you that historicly becouse of former Yugoslavia ties to African,Asia,Arab countyres they still see Belgrade(former yu capital) as most recognizable city on Balkans.
So Budapest and Belgrade are compareable and not antagonists cityes,but complemetary for sure.That s why these two cities are diceded to connect with high speed railroad line.
And since you re from beauitifull city of Split,you know that you can't compare Belgrade and Zagreb ,these cityes are diffrent kind ,diffrent atmosphere,diffrent corridore, and for sure Belgrade much bigger city.Zagreb can compare to Sofia on that matter.And where and what are foreing investments oh these two cityes? 
I think it's wrong just to take as creteria BDP per capita, municipal budget.Well compare debts for Belgrade and other,you can see that Belgrade budget is just fine on + and we can take new loans for infrastructure ,i don't think that same situation is with other cityes,some are in big trouble with debts an budget.China has diceded to bring milons of turists in Belgrade and Budapest ,thats mean these two cityes are gonig to have a significant income growths.And only Belgrade and Budapest has big hotels but surly not enough for such turist invasion.


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## spansko (Feb 21, 2014)

Budapest has more than 3 million in metropolitan area, Belgrade has 2 million on same area, with Pancevo included. Belgrade is far.more.famous and recognizable than Sofia, I'll give you that, but Sofia is.developing at a very fast.rate. it's building the third.metro line, bypass is finished... Belgrade has.been.catching.up lately and thats very good but as a neutral bystander, even.slightly biased towards Belgrade, the two.cities are VERY.comparable.and.nuances set.them.apart as it is right now... and both dont.come.close to Budapest in any.way  even.Bucharest.is.substantially bigger, richer and.more.important than.both.Sofia.or.Belgrade...

I.can.agree.that Sofia is a better fit.for.comparison with Zagreb than.Belgrade, but Zagreb even.being substantially richer.is.falling.far.behind in population, investment, and importance...


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## Smart City (Jul 1, 2016)

Well,i can agree with you.And Belgrade is just so diffrent from Budapest that it s another interesting important city on a way to south.But potental for growth is on Belgrade side,just becouse ex yu region wants to have a settlment in this city, gives him much wider market than Budapest.And i say Belgrade is still cultural center for wider region becouse of its isntitutions builded on much larger state before.Recntly more and more rich people wants to buy porperty in Belgrade.So besides Gdp ,we have to compare cultural offer,educational potential,science,transport connections,river advantages,people skills,events capacityes and many more...


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## joeyavicii (Jan 28, 2014)

Lol Cebu never competes with any city in philippines whether up north nor down south lol jk . 

For sure, Cebu is competing with global cities of the world.


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## SASH (Apr 15, 2005)

Red85 said:


> Not totally true. Rotterdam is way smaller in that case. In what they are bigger? The port. That's massive. But there it stays. Rotterdam has a real 2nd city syndrome. Where the majority of Amsterdammers are just acompanying Rotterdammers, i.e. as a colleague, and keep it with comments, rotterdammers are just pieces of shits.
> Always compare their own city with 'they don't do that in Amsterdam'.


He forgets to say that people of Amsterdam are so arrogant and that is the main reason the people of Rotterdam don't like them! As a matter of fact you can see it in what he posted here above. As if Amsterdam is the 
center of the universe and the rest, in this case Rotterdam is a piece of shit as he already mentioned.
So yes... "we hate Amsterdam and Ajax!"


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## Chrissib (Feb 9, 2008)

schorsch said:


> In Germany:
> 
> Cologne - Düsseldorf
> Munich - Stuttgart
> ...


Never heard of the Munich-Stuttgart one. In general you could say that there aren't any rivalries that go beyond a region. Hamburg has some kind of a second-city syndrome and always tries to compare itself with Berlin, but Berlin doesn't really care about Hamburg.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

*Within Canada*

Edmonton - Calgary (Alberta rivals)
Saskatoon - Regina (Saskatchewan rivals)
Moncton - Halifax (Maritime rivals)

The Big 3 (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver) are very international in their mindset. They look to other global cities.


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## JaksonSmith (Sep 7, 2017)

If we talk about Pakistan then there are two big cities Karachi and Lahore as these cities are considered as rival cities but with giant size, these cities have so many social issues which need to be addressed.


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## ssiguy2 (Feb 19, 2005)

I don't agree with Canada. Toronto and Montreal have a very healthy rivalry made more intense by the English/French one.


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## a57046d (Oct 18, 2016)

Chrissib said:


> Hamburg has some kind of a second-city syndrome and always tries to compare itself with Berlin, but Berlin doesn't really care about Hamburg.


I know, that some Berliners look down on Hamburg, Hamburg is a successful and prosperous city, whilst Berlin is on way to this status.
There is really kind of rivlary between Munich and Stuttgart, but more in economic terms. The Stuttgart region is a really dynamic powerhouse, same you can say about Munich.


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## PinkWho (Feb 14, 2015)

In Mexico besides Mexico City which is the political, cultural and financial capital of the country the second and third city have a bigger rivalry: Guadalajara (cultural) vs Monterrey (economically)


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## gandhi.rushabh1992 (Dec 10, 2010)

Within India:

Mumbai vs Delhi | Financial capital vs Political capital

Bangalore vs Chennai | Vying for the gateway to South India spot


Outside India:

Mumbai vs Karachi | Port cities and respective financial hubs

Delhi vs Lahore | Historical cities with common Punjabi influence

Kolkata vs Dhaka | Brothers from different mothers


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## Copperknickers (May 15, 2011)

gandhi.rushabh1992 said:


> Within India:
> 
> Mumbai vs Delhi | Financial capital vs Political capital


Financial and cultural capital. That's a good one as there is a huge contrast between them, with the spacious, flat landscape of Delhi, especially New Delhi, compared to the cramped seaside strip of Mumbai with its famous slums. Delhi has slums too of course but the Mumbai slums are more like favelas. I haven't been to Mumbai unfortunately but Delhi is at once impressive (it's the third most populous city on Earth after all) and also kind of a letdown, as it lacks glamour. I think in some respects Mumbai is more of an 'Indian' city, as Delhi is heavily influenced by the British and Mughal periods in terms of the central areas and monuments, and it feels much more international in an architectural sense, in the sense of having areas which could be confused for America or Australia. Whereas Mumbai could not be confused for anywhere outside of India.



> Kolkata vs Dhaka | Brothers from different mothers


This is another interesting one. Again, I have been to Kolkata but not Dhaka. Kolkata is crazy, at once Indian but also with a strong British colonial influence. Parts of it feel almost like London (well, London 70 years ago). Kolkata is obviously the home of Tagore and the heart of modern Indian literary accomplishments, and the spiritual capital of Bengal, however in practical terms Dhaka is the political capital of 'Bangladesh' and so some would say it is really the capital of Bengal in cultural terms as most Bengalis are Bangladeshi and West Bengal.

And of course the cities have very serious problems. Kolkata was famous for being perhaps the nadir of developing world urban poverty in the 60s and 70s, with its association with Mother Theresa, and it has sadly recovered only in a very superficial way, with poverty still widespread and true economic development happening very slowly compared to other areas of India. And Dhaka has been called the worst city in the world to live in today, outside of a warzone. I hope things get better for these two cities as Bengalis are among the most amazing people on earth, so friendly and intelligent and laid-back and generous and yet passionate.


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## d.henney (Nov 15, 2009)

In Deutschland number 1 rival cities are Köln/Düsseldorf. People there make jokes about the other all the time. ^.^ Other big rivals are Leipzig/Dresden, the 2 leading cities of Sachsen, and Dortmund/Gelsenkirchen, two cities where the most famous things there are the football clubs. The rivalry between the Mainz/Wiesbaden facing each other at a riverside is more local and between slightly smaller cities. There is also the rivalry between the 3 cities in the northern flatland, Hannover/Wolfsburg/Braunschweig, all pretty close to each other.


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## lezgotolondon (Aug 31, 2010)

In Tuscany every city hates the others, this dates back to the middle age.
It permeates our culture in a funny way.


The biggest and most famous rivalry in Italy is between two tuscan cities: *Pisa vs Livorno.*

Livorno was the new port of Pisa in the beginning and they are 20km away.
Their football derbies are the most sensible in Italy.


*Pisa *
[County: 90.000, Urban: 140.000, Metro: 240.000]

A world famous city because due to its Leaning Tower an being the birthplace of Galileo and Fibonacci hosts one of the biggest universities in Italy with 50.000 students, two schools of advanced studies, many facilities of the National Research Council, one of the biggest Hospital in Europe and an intercontinental airport of 5 million pax with regular flights to Doha.











*Livorno*
[County: 158.000, Metro 170.000]

A big port city. Famous for the fish recipes, communism and the friendly and politically uncorrect manners of its people.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

ssiguy2 said:


> I don't agree with Canada. Toronto and Montreal have a very healthy rivalry made more intense by the English/French one.


That's largely a myth. There was a rivalry up until about 1995. By then Toronto had completely usurped Montreal as the nation's principal city. Montrealers became content being the metropolis of francophone America while Toronto turned its gaze first to Chicago (and now elsewhere). Rivalry between Montreal and Toronto has turned to mutual appreciation of the other. 

The only rivalry that exists between these two cities today is in hockey. It doesn't exist in football, basketball, baseball, or in any non-sport context.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Why is it that I'm looking at HK and Shanghai as rival cities?


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## taotao10101 (Nov 28, 2016)

Guangzhou (Canton) and Shenzhen of course.
One hour drive from each other, both are cities with 20 million inhabitants, but Canton and Shenzhen are very different in many aspects. Canton was founded in 211 BC and since then remained the most remote great city of China and a center of maritime trade in the Far East, While Shenzhen didn’t exist 40 years ago but has grown into the city with the absolutely most skyscrapers in the world now. (Canton actually also maintained a record of having the world’s most supertalls for a few years until a few years ago)

Today Canton is the economic and cultural center of Guangdong province, a lot of the habitants speaks Cantonese. While Shenzhen is the Silicon Valley of China, and most of its inhabitants are northern immigrants from mandarin speaking provinces. That means lots of cultural differences. Both city’s modern development benefits greatly from investments and influences of Hong Kong. Together they form the Pearl river delta megapolis, which has nearly 80 million people and is the factory of the world. 

Both the citizens of Canton and Shenzhen believes strongly that their own city is better than the other. Just last month Shenzhen announced that its GDP has surpassed Guangzhou, but that’s done by a changing in calculation methods
Canton
























Shenzhen 








@ http://www.themostperfectview.com/shenzhen-hotel-views/








@ http://edition.cnn.com/style/article/shenzhen-skyscraper/index.html


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## Jaborandi (Nov 19, 2006)

isaidso said:


> That's largely a myth. There was a rivalry up until about 1995. By then Toronto had completely usurped Montreal as the nation's principal city. Montrealers became content being the metropolis of francophone America while Toronto turned its gaze first to Chicago (and now elsewhere). Rivalry between Montreal and Toronto has turned to mutual appreciation of the other.
> 
> The only rivalry that exists between these two cities today is in hockey. It doesn't exist in football, basketball, baseball, or in any non-sport context.


I totally agree with isaidso that there is no longer any perceived rivalry between Montreal & Toronto. Each has its own sphere of influence and there is no need to score points off the other. Everyone I know loves Montreal and are gladdened to see it growing again.

Winnipeg and Hamilton is another matter though. Hamilton is hungry for that #7 spot and is showing significant growth, especially from those looking for an urban alternative to Toronto.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Isn't there a 3 way tussle for 7th biggest between Hamilton, Winnipeg, and Quebec City?


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

This one I find interesting. 

Not really city but more of a region.

If there is one real rivalry, that would be The State of California.

You have Northern California (San Francisco, San Jose, Oakland, rest of The Bay Area, Central Valley, plus the capital Sacramento) which is a financial, technological and political centre;

Against Southern California (Los Angeles, San Diego, Inland Empire) which has the largest city and also an economic, industrial and entertainment hub.


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## MikeVegas (Sep 12, 2002)

In Minnesota, like Scotland, Minneapolis is the bigger city, while 10 miles away is St. Paul the Capital city. From Wikipedia: Minneapolis and St. Paul have competed since they were founded, resulting in some duplication of effort.[18] After St. Paul completed its elaborate Cathedral in 1915, Minneapolis quickly followed up with the equally ornate Basilica of St. Mary in 1926. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries the rivalry became so intense that an architect practicing in one city was often refused business in the other. The 1890 United States Census even led to the two cities arresting and/or kidnapping each other's census takers, in an attempt to keep either city from outgrowing the other.[19][20][21]


The 1905 Minneapolis Millers baseball team
The rivalry could occasionally erupt into inter-city violence, as happened at a 1923 game between the Minneapolis Millers and the St. Paul Saints, both baseball teams of the American Association.[citation needed] In the 1950s, both cities competed for a major league baseball franchise (which resulted in two rival stadiums being built), and there was a brief period in the mid-1960s where the two cities could not agree on a common calendar for daylight saving time, resulting in a period of a few weeks where people in Minneapolis were one hour "behind" anyone living or traveling in St. Paul. [22]

The cities' mutual antagonism was largely healed by the end of the 1960s, aided by the simultaneous arrival in 1961 of the Minnesota Twins of the American League and the Minnesota Vikings of the National Football League, both of which identified themselves with the state as a whole (the former explicitly named for both Twin Cities) and not with either of the major cities (unlike the earlier Minneapolis Lakers). Since 1961, it has been common practice for any major sports team based in the Twin Cities to be named for Minnesota as a whole. In terms of development, the two cities remain distinct in their progress, with Minneapolis absorbing new and avant-garde architecture while St. Paul continues to carefully integrate new buildings into the context of classical and Victorian style.


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## Tungus (Aug 23, 2010)

Novokuznetsk vs Kemerovo - most fierce rivalry on the Earth.


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## yoggy52 (Feb 16, 2015)

In Slovakia we have:
Bratislava - Kosice
Presov - Kosice
Nitra - Trnava
Banska Bystrica - Zvolen
Spiska Nova Ves - Levoca
Vranov nad Toplou - Humenne
Svidnik - Stropkov :lol:

And international:
Vienna - Bratislava

And most important:
Bratislava vs others.

For so small country there is so lot going on :lol:


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## maxx989 (May 23, 2019)

> Rio and São Paulo background.
> 
> São Paulo was a tiny village when Rio was an Imperial Capital. São Paulo wasn´t and shouldn´t be the largest city at all, but a geographic barrier led this to happen.
> 
> ...


Every city has it's cultural changes. It's unstoppable process.


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## Black Box (Jul 11, 2006)

Maybe covered, the Seattle and Portland rivalry in the PNW.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Some of the cities and their rankings being included here are RIDICULOUS. 

Cebu? A rival to Manila? :lol: 

Who ever heard of (or who cares about) those tiny cities in Slovakia? I mean :lol: :nuts:


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