# most unequal cities in the world



## saintmadrid (Oct 13, 2012)

the purpose of this thread is to show that social gap that it actually exist in a lot of cities in the world. 

BTW this topic come to my head when i noticed that exist and coefficient that measure the inequality of a city... the gini coefficient. 

and according to the gini list of inequality here we go with the most unequal city in my country:
Medellín, Colombia.
there´s some pics of the city:







there's one face:



[URL=http://s1331.photobucket.com/user/juan_ribas/media/3855004658_145f8cebe5_b_zpsc7524e1c.jpg.html]







[/URL]










a rich neighborhood named las palmas:



there you can find houses like these:










and the other face:









[URL=http://s1331.photobucket.com/user/juan_ribas/media/80fdcab07ec4ba2a61b7672dc8f5b92b_zpsb86c1107.jpg.html]







[/URL]


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## saintmadrid (Oct 13, 2012)

the idea is to show examples like this. 

i hope you enjoy the thread


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## Yuri S Andrade (Sep 29, 2008)

Brasília is the most unequal city in Brazil. I'll post pictures/data later.


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## 009 (Nov 28, 2007)




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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

^^ Wow, Tokyo is a massive outlier there - same with Osaka and the Chinese cities too being off the trend line. I think it's a bit rich to put a trend line to such odd data to be honest.


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## 009 (Nov 28, 2007)

Svartmetall said:


> ^^ Wow, Tokyo is a massive outlier there - same with Osaka and the Chinese cities too being off the trend line. I think it's a bit rich to put a trend line to such odd data to be honest.


Yeah the trend line looks a bit odd there, but it does show just how massive Tokyo is


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## castermaild55 (Sep 8, 2005)

009 said:


> Yeah the trend line looks a bit odd there, but it does show just how massive Tokyo is












These buildings are individual possessions.　or It is the thing of a company which the individual or a family are managing. 
anyway

Wealth distribution: Which nations are the best?
Global wealth, currently held by 4.4 billion adults, has increased by 72 per cent since the year 2000 to reach $195 trillion.

The Credit Suisse Research Institute estimates that global wealth will grow by 61 per cent to $315 trillion by 2015, driven by robust economic expansion in the emerging markets.
However, unequal wealth distribution is a matter of concern. As the rich-poor gap is growing wider, how fairly is wealth distributed among people?
The higher a Gini coefficient the more unequal is the distribution of wealth. A low Gini coefficient indicates a more equal distribution, with 0 corresponding to complete equality, while higher Gini coefficients indicate more unequal distribution, with 1 corresponding to complete inequality.
Here's a list of 20 nations from the most equal to the most unequal in terms of distribution of wealth...

1. Japan

http://www.rediff.com/business/slid...ution-which-nations-are-the-best/20111004.htm


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## BriedisUnIzlietne (Dec 16, 2012)

Probably not one of the most unequal cities in the world but an interesting sight nevertheless








Elite housing U/C and not so elite housing in Rīga, Latvia


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## ssiguy2 (Feb 19, 2005)

Before the terrible Haitian earthquake, I believe that Port au price was the most unequal city in probably the most unequal country on the planet. 

Haiti was still near a feudal level in terms of social development, there was no middle or even working class to speak of...........just obscenely rich very very very few and the rest living in dire poverty. Petionville which is a suburb of Port au Prince was truly a world unto it's own. There the incredibly wealthy few lived in gated communities in mansions and with very high end shopping and restaurants over looking the city. The was absolutely no interaction between the people of Petionville and the rest of the city. 

Only the poor people working for these incredibly wealthy few would be allowed into the area. Apparently there were even armed guards patrolling the streets to make sure anyone who didn't "fit in" with the local populace would be forced out even though they were public roads going into a city. Almost like the Antebellum South during slave times where, except for the house slaves, the field hands worked all day for nothing and lived in huts away from "the big house" and where the owners would never go and had no real concept of what their lives were really like.


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## 009 (Nov 28, 2007)

ssiguy2 said:


> Before the terrible Haitian earthquake, I believe that Port au price was the most unequal city in probably the most unequal country on the planet.
> 
> Haiti was still near a feudal level in terms of social development, there was no middle or even working class to speak of...........just obscenely rich very very very few and the rest living in dire poverty. Petionville which is a suburb of Port au Prince was truly a world unto it's own. There the incredibly wealthy few lived in gated communities in mansions and with very high end shopping and restaurants over looking the city. The was absolutely no interaction between the people of Petionville and the rest of the city.
> 
> Only the poor people working for these incredibly wealthy few would be allowed into the area. Apparently there were even armed guards patrolling the streets to make sure anyone who didn't "fit in" with the local populace would be forced out even though they were public roads going into a city. Almost like the Antebellum South during slave times where, except for the house slaves, the field hands worked all day for nothing and lived in huts away from "the big house" and where the owners would never go and had no real concept of what their lives were really like.


I think we have a winner


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## 009 (Nov 28, 2007)

The rise of inequality has been causing concern in much of the developed world lately as well, with the "occupy", and other similar protests. There is a growing resentment among the working, and much of the middle class towards the "elite", often fueled by government policies: excessive government salaries/spending, corruption, social cuts, bail outs and tax breaks for the wealthy, etc.


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## saintmadrid (Oct 13, 2012)

ssiguy2 said:


> Before the terrible Haitian earthquake, I believe that Port au price was the most unequal city in probably the most unequal country on the planet.
> 
> Haiti was still near a feudal level in terms of social development, there was no middle or even working class to speak of...........just obscenely rich very very very few and the rest living in dire poverty. Petionville which is a suburb of Port au Prince was truly a world unto it's own. There the incredibly wealthy few lived in gated communities in mansions and with very high end shopping and restaurants over looking the city. The was absolutely no interaction between the people of Petionville and the rest of the city.
> 
> Only the poor people working for these incredibly wealthy few would be allowed into the area. Apparently there were even armed guards patrolling the streets to make sure anyone who didn't "fit in" with the local populace would be forced out even though they were public roads going into a city. Almost like the Antebellum South during slave times where, except for the house slaves, the field hands worked all day for nothing and lived in huts away from "the big house" and where the owners would never go and had no real concept of what their lives were really like.


well.. by the concept of inequality i dont think puerto principe be the most unequal city. that's because there's no longer distance betwen the two socials groups. i think the majority habitants of haiti are poor cause is considered the poorest country of america so this make the rich people be a little part not enough to consider it as an half.


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## ssiguy2 (Feb 19, 2005)

No, there were a lot of very rich people in Petionville by any world standard, far more than many countries with higher GDP levels. 

Haiti had a GINI Index rating of 60..........that's bordering on feudal society levels. Petionville really was the castle in the sky looking down on the masses. They were home to the people who literally owned nearly all of the country's land and the political elites such "Papa Doc" and his benefactors. They lived the life of true feudal aristocracy never really working and spending all day in the fashionable shops, restaurants, private clubs, and dinner parties. Due to the incredibly bad infrastructure of Haiti, most of the homes even had their own emergency electrical supply. 

I read a forum about Petionville and apparently most never ventured out of their little piece of paradise and only went to Port au Prince if they had to get to the airport as flying off to Miami for shopping or a fun weekend was the "in thing" to do.


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## aaabbbccc (Mar 8, 2009)

I am not sure the ranking of Casablanca , Morocco but based on observation , some parts of Casablanca looks like Beverly hills , Miami Beach etc and other parts looks like Somalia and Sudan


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## mckeenan (Apr 17, 2013)

009 said:


> The rise of inequality has been causing concern in much of the developed world lately as well, with the "occupy", and other similar protests. There is a growing resentment among the working, and much of the middle class towards the "elite", often fueled by government policies: excessive government salaries/spending, corruption, social cuts, bail outs and tax breaks for the wealthy, etc.


I pretty much think the same. Movements like Occupy, 15M and the like are being constantly ridiculized as idealistics fools or just angry radical leftists. It is very sad, because there's a turning in point in the world. With the economical crises most people, even middle class and even upper-middle class got poorer while goverments fuelled the banks to avoid bankrupcy and system crack. In the financial world, the last to sell when the tide's still high (tide=credit usually), is the one who wins. And that was a very, very high tide, and the last to sell were very, very few. In this big crises the only people that have won are the big fortunes and some bonus-fuelled bank managers. Everyone else has lost, either directly or indirectly. The interesting thing is that cities probably are not going more inequal in the western world, just more poorer.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

I believe there have been some empirical studies on the GNI coefficient, which measure the income gap.


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## hqho1671 (Dec 15, 2012)

aaabbbccc said:


> I am not sure the ranking of Casablanca , Morocco but based on observation , some parts of Casablanca looks like Beverly hills , Miami Beach etc and other parts looks like Somalia and Sudan


Sudan(khartoum) actually looks more like Nairobi or lunda not like Somalia at all actually they have more modren looking skyline than Casablanca


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## aaabbbccc (Mar 8, 2009)

hqho1671 said:


> Sudan(khartoum) actually looks more like Nairobi or lunda not like Somalia at all actually they have more modren looking skyline than Casablanca


Very nice indeed , Casablanca's skyline sucks anyways , but this is not about a skyline , the is about inequality


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

I'm going to put Manila on this one, it's a city of great contrasts with the residential enclaves of both the middle and upper class, highly developed central business districts in contrast with some of the worst ghettos on this planet!


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Svartmetall said:


> ^^ Wow, Tokyo is a massive outlier there - same with Osaka and the Chinese cities too being off the trend line. I think it's a bit rich to put a trend line to such odd data to be honest.


Some cities such as Manila and Jakarta aren't listed and are among the largest cities in the world.


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## rocky2 (Mar 19, 2014)

The description of Haiti sounds like Apartheid to me. Very bad


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

Hong Kong is a pretty good example of what centuries of libertarianism does, as the world's 'freest' economy - higher GDP 'per capita' (PPP) than Switzerland, and the most expensive land prices - but 80% of the population are working class (20% below the very generous poverty line- if you struggle to earn only $5065 a year, in one of the world's most expensive cities where the 'average' income is $52,700 - a salary that is more than ten times yours to be considered normal - you are still not considered poor). The middle class is only 10%, the elite 10%.

It doesn't score that highly on the Gini coefficient as noone is desperately poor or outright starving, but has the highest income gap of any industrialised country. 1/4 children do not get 3 meals a day, 1/3 of seniors struggle to feed themselves.

Near 15% of it's population - over 100,000 people, live in 6ft by 3ft (or smaller) cages, or on rooftops -effectively homeless.

cage-dweller:









one step up from the cages, a small bed in large dormitories:




























In short a shining example of libertarianism, low taxation and the fact most of the social progress and poverty eradicating campaigns have relied upon local charities. The *trickle-up effect of Reagonomics *- over the past few decades almost all the wealth in the billions made since Handover has gone to the 10% elite, while the working class grows in size ever more. Also growing are the middle classes - one of the few that's not shrinking in the OECD West - but we're looking at a barely negligible 1.3% (while their housing gets ever smaller and more expensive):


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## KøbenhavnK (Feb 3, 2014)

^^^^

I'm not sure that 40% of people living in subsidized housing is an indicator of inequality in a city like Hong Kong.

Rather the opposite. It makes sense that average wages can never afford an appartment there. That is no different from London or other big cities. Perhaps the number should be even higher.

1000 homeless in Hong Kong seems like a small number (don't get me wrong. 10 or 50 would be better).

From my personal experience the largest income gaps I have seen have not been in Hong Kong but in places like India and Nigeria. Not that the rich there are richer but the poorest just seem deprived of any dignity and nobody seem to care.

I unfortunately must add that European cities seem to be catching up. 10-15 years ago homeless people here were substance abusers who had fallen out of the system. Now many are just victims of a shifting economy.


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## alexandru.mircea (May 18, 2011)

^ You're right about other places being much worse than Honk-Kong, but I think his point was that HK shows quite well that free market society does not work as promised_ in the developed world_, and does not provide for everybody like a welfare oriented society does. Sure, it is much worse in other places, but right now there is extremely strong pressure for the advancement of market society policies in the developed world, with the pretext of the post-crisis austerity. We should resist that.


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## KøbenhavnK (Feb 3, 2014)

I think it's clear to most of the world that Reganomics and Thatcherism works for people who invest. Not for people who work.... But on a website in love with the ultimate symbol of capitalism: MONSTER TALLS.... Maybe I'll take my views on the so called trickel down effect elsewhere....

I just don't think Hong Kong seems much more unequal than many western cities. The number of homeless (the ultimate sign of inequality) in cities like Paris, London or Madrid is depressing. And growing.


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

KøbenhavnK said:


> I think it's clear to most of the world that Reganomics and Thatcherism works for people who invest. Not for people who work.... But on a website in love with the ultimate symbol of capitalism: MONSTER TALLS.... Maybe I'll take my views on the so called trickel down effect elsewhere....
> 
> I just don't think Hong Kong seems much more unequal than many western cities. The number of homeless (the ultimate sign of inequality) in cities like Paris, London or Madrid is depressing. And growing.


Thing is, European homelessness is being exported. I don't know about where you are, but we are getting more and more eastern european beggars that are being bussed in - especially in Stockholm - as part of organised begging rings. This year, the sheer numbers are amazing - they are EVERYWHERE now. Really we need to tighten up restrictions on this kind of thing as it's just bad for the city and for the country to have so many here.


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## KøbenhavnK (Feb 3, 2014)

I have been to Balkan countries on a regular basis for more than a decade. 

I overheard a conversation between a member of a hotel staff and a Norwegian family asking advise on where it was good to stay if they went to Belgrade.

The hotel lady was absolutely shocked warning them about gipsy beggars and thieves there.

The husband just shrugged his shoulders replying: - I don't think they are there anymore. They have all gone to Oslo.

I had to smile. Because that was funny.

But as far as I remember Svartmetall you wrote somewhere that you are married to a Chinese..... If you elect politicians it might be hard to elect the ones that discriminate only the right ones.....

(I'm ironic: right is right for some. Wrong for others. And the other way around)

But I do agree with you. There seem to be a bunch of politicians completely out of touch with what normal people talk about.

Back to topic: Lagos is THE MOST unequal city I have ever seen.

And that says a lot.


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## aaabbbccc (Mar 8, 2009)

I was wondering 
I read articles about the economy is " booming " and " exploding " in certain cities , regions and countries but yet a huge portion of that population do not benefits for the boom and makes things even worst for many people
what I do not understand is why is it that so many people do not benefits from an economical boom ? Casablanca , Morocco is one of the " richest cities in Africa " but yet 70 % of the population lives in poverty and many of them in extreme poverty , I do not get it , maybe someone who is more of expert in social economics can explain this 
thanks


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

KøbenhavnK said:


> I have been to Balkan countries on a regular basis for more than a decade.
> 
> I overheard a conversation between a member of a hotel staff and a Norwegian family asking advise on where it was good to stay if they went to Belgrade.
> 
> ...


I'm a left voter and always will be, however, nowhere else has the level of free movement that Europe does. It is wrong to export homelessness from one country to another, and to allow criminal begging rings where people are "handled" by bosses that take a cut of their proceeds. This is exploitation and has nothing to do with immigration. I don't think it is too much of a problem to put a restriction for "free movement" where people have to have a means of support or job offer to go to in a country to settle there permanently. If they lack this then they should be sent back to their home country.

Rather than pandering to such warm fuzzy feelings about completely open borders and allowing these organised begging rings to operate in Sweden, much to the detriment of those that are on the streets begging (for example), I would rather see Sweden give development aid and help to set up education and/or training programmes in the countries these beggars originate from to help built up the local economy and provide opportunities beyond begging in other European countries. This would benefit everyone in Europe if this was done and hopefully cut down on this problem of exported poverty/homelessness we see now. I can literally not walk more than a few metres anywhere outside a metro station in Stockholm without encountering a group of beggars from Eastern Europe. This years numbers are higher than any I have seen before.


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## alexandru.mircea (May 18, 2011)

Svartmetall said:


> I don't think it is too much of a problem to put a restriction for "free movement" where people have to have a means of support or job offer to go to in a country to settle there permanently. If they lack this then they should be sent back to their home country.


This already exists, the right freedom of movement inside the EU is something different to the right to residence, which is only free for the first three months, after which you need to be able to justify your residence, in terms of resources to sustain oneself. The problem with actually enforcing this is that it must _not_ happen in the way of purposefully targeting racial (or other) groups in isolation for systematic deportation in order to pander to right wing sensibilities especially in the context of coming elections, which is exactly what happened in the last couple of years of the conservative rule in France.


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## KøbenhavnK (Feb 3, 2014)

There does seem to be a problem with freedom of movement.

The foreign "beggars" on the streets of Copenhagen are acutally not homeless. They arrive here by bus, beg in the daytime and get a bed in a shelter by night and then go home again after a while being replaced by others.

When I see people begging wearing shoes that I cannot afford myself I don't give them money. Aparently other people do. And I think that is naive. But it's hard to blame the "beggars".

The biggest problem for me is that it's possible for Danish companies to employ people in a low income country and then send them North on contracts paying them the mandatory minimum wages of their home country but at the same time entiteling them to benefits in the country they are actually working in.

The biggest thing going on in Copenhagen is building new metro lines downtown. Many of the workers there are employed this way. And that is an absolute disgrace because it is government financed (Denmark does not have minimum wages. This is why it can be done here and might not a problem in other countries).

And then of course there are the loads of vans going East with bikes, TVs....

It's difficult to discuss these REAL problems without sounding xenophobic. Maybe that's why only the extreme right talk about it in this country. Maybe the other politicians will start to adress it after the European elections in May. I think they are in for a nasty surprise...

Unfortunately.


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

Guys re-read my post. For Hong Kong only 1000 people may be officially 'homeless' - but *100,000* people would be _classed_ as homeless in any other city. These are the people who live in cages, or on rooftops. It is abnormally high for a city of it's size and especially it's wealth.

For example in London, a city twice it's size but equal in wealth (and scoring pretty high itself in inequality), 6,500 are classed as 'rough sleepers', but 30,000 are homeless - people who sleep in shelters, tents or provided accommodation. Hong Kong merely has less 'rough sleepers' due to the easy access to rooftops, and the sheer amount of buildings, but far more homeless and destitute.

To reiterate, *1/4* of Hong Kong's children do not get 3 meals a day, and *1/3* of it's seniors struggle to feed themselves *at the most basic level.* That's pretty bad for a city with GDP per capita of Switzerland.


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## KøbenhavnK (Feb 3, 2014)

^^^^
Point taken.

Hong Kong seems to be one of the very few places building skyscrapers for public houseing.

Are they planing to house all those "cage people"?

It would seem an acomplishable goal looking at what they have done so far.


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

According to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights proposed by the United Nations, caged homes violate the right to housing. However the Hong Kong govt maintains there's a demand for them (they were originally used during the Chinese Civil War when the territory was inundated with refugees) despite calls for them to be eradicated and local charities demanding more (and better) public housing. They form the lowest rung of the public housing ladder - 53,000 currently live in them.


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## rocky2 (Mar 19, 2014)

For Honk Kong, there is no excuse, there could be a minimum of redistribution. Its a wonder why it is not more violent. Or maybe without these rules would Hong Kong decline and not compete with Mainland China cities?

South Africa is very unequal to a shocking point with a wealthy class with living conditions that would make a lot of wealthy Europeans jealous, and a mass of poor black people that just do not have the education and connections to make it out of poverty. It is not a fair start at life. Think Johannesburg and Cape Town.

Of course this was shaped by a tragic history and recent immigration and this will not reverse quick.


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## sebvill (Apr 13, 2005)

Any city in Latin America is very unequal


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## sebvill (Apr 13, 2005)

Its not cities, but its the main emerging countries.

Red: Rich
Dark Green: Upper Middle Class
Green: Middle Class
Light Green: Lower Middle Class (Emerging Middle Class)
Light Blue: Poor

As you can see, countries like China, Kazahstan or Thailand look fairly equal. While Brasil, Colombia or South Africa look like the most unequal. The poorest, such as Bangladesh, Pakistan or Nigeria are mostly equal as most of their population is on the poor category. Qatar on the other hand is sickly rich, way ahead G7 countries average.


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## sebvill (Apr 13, 2005)

According to the United Nations these are the capital cities of Latin America in orden of inequality. Being Brasilia the most unequal and Caracas the least. 

United Nations pointed that all cities down to Asuncion have "Very High Inequality". Mexico City and San Jose are described as "High Inequality". Panama City, Montevideo and San Salvador are described as "Relatively Unequal". Finally, Lima and Caracas are described as "Moderately Unequal".


Gini Coefficient (2005-2010)


Brasilia
Santo Domingo
La Paz
Santiago
Bogotá
Ciudad de Guatemala
Managua
Tegucigalpa
Quito
Buenos Aires
Asunción
Ciudad de México
San José
Ciudad de Panamá
Montevideo
San Salvador
Lima
Caracas
*Fuente: ONU Hábitat, Observatorio Mundial Urbano, 2013.*

Source; ONU Hábitat, Observatorio Mundial Urbano, 2013.

http://cnnespanol.cnn.com/2014/04/08/las-10-capitales-con-mayor-desigualdad-de-america-latina/


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

wow, Kazakhstan's doing well


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## aaabbbccc (Mar 8, 2009)

I wonder about UAE ? I hear at least 30 % of the total population is poor but it is not the citizens who are poor , it is the immigrants from India , Pakistan etc etc , correct me if I am wrong


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

KøbenhavnK said:


> Hong Kong seems to be one of the very few places building skyscrapers for public houseing.
> 
> Are they planing to house all those "cage people"?
> 
> It would seem an acomplishable goal looking at what they have done so far.


Caged people are eligible to apply for public housing, but the waitlist is long and families are prioritized first before singles. The numbers have dwindled quite a lot in recent years but the working poor still live in crowded conditions - not as extreme as a caged home but in subdivided rooms carved out from existing apartments.

An interesting recent article on these people : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rlds-wealthiest-densely-populated-cities.html



rocky2 said:


> For Honk Kong, there is no excuse, there could be a minimum of redistribution. Its a wonder why it is not more violent. Or maybe without these rules would Hong Kong decline and not compete with Mainland China cities?


East Asian societies are generally peaceful and people don't revolt due to poverty. They accept their reality and work hard hoping to improve it, but capitalism favours the rich and the powerful. Hong Kong's success is built on its low and simple taxation system, which in turn means little welfare / benefits. Everyone is on their own and cannot rely on the government as insurance, which is deeply engrained in the people's psyche. For example, many old ladies continue to collect cardboard for resale even though they may be getting a meagre pension from the government. Many unemployed refuse to collect benefits as they believe they can earn a living on their own and cannot bear the shame of relying on a hand-out.

That being said, Hong Kong's poverty has nothing to do with competition from China. The 2 labour markets are separate and mobility is restricted for the mainlanders. The border is alive and well and all mainland Chinese need visas to enter HK.


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## saintmadrid (Oct 13, 2012)

there's a famous pic of inequality in brazil


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## Yuri S Andrade (Sep 29, 2008)

That's Morumbi (with the Paraisópolis slum in the middle of it, one of the largest of São Paulo). It's one of the wealthiest districts of Latin America, and it's located in western São Paulo. Here the GE view:



I hate that neighbourhood and I fail to see how they manage to keep that expensive with this huge slum in the middle of it. It's very unsafe as well, with lots of car robbery and mugging. Very car-oriented.


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## Copperknickers (May 15, 2011)

sebvill said:


> Its not cities, but its the main emerging countries.
> 
> Red: Rich
> Dark Green: Upper Middle Class
> ...


This is very interesting. Is there a version of this chart with wealth adjusted for purchase power parity?


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## mintgum84 (Aug 18, 2011)

From experience, Lahore and Karachi are very unequal. I suppose this is common in developing states as found in Asia, Africa and Latin America.


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## ssiguy2 (Feb 19, 2005)

In Guatemala, the tops 2% of income earners owns 70% of all arable land.


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## akif90 (Sep 11, 2012)

How about KL?


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## zaphod (Dec 8, 2005)

I know this is controversial...

Would Hong Kong even be like that if there were never borders between it and rural and urban mainland China, and no hukou system within China either?

People migrate to big cities to make more money and for a while they tolerate living in slums, but the end game is everyone moves up the ladder eventually as the country develops. Past a certain stage most country's slums tend to de-densify. But if there are artificial constraints that say you can only live on this side of fence, and for 40 years that other side of the fence was nothing but misery and starvation and has only boomed in the last 25 and is still pretty gritty for people in your social class, well naturally a big city will become a kind of lifeboat people will cling to no matter how crowded.

A poor person in New York in the 1920s wouldn't have had to deal with that, they could just move anywhere else in the country. But a person in Hong Kong was stuck.


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

Across the border in Communist era China people were universally poor, but they were better fed and often better housed, with better communities and social cohesion than the >80% poor in HK. HK had more opportunity undoubtedly, but it also had deeper depths of despair and fewer social nets for much of it's history. Also interesting to note, neither side ever had democracy.

The real big difference was historically in HK you hustled, begged or slaved in sweatshops, in China you were a slave to the land. China was also haunted by the world's worst famine in the 1950s and political turmoil right until the 1970s.

I's good both areas have moved so far forward till today, but the historical legacy is still extant, especially in libertarian HK.


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## zaphod (Dec 8, 2005)

What kind of taxes does HK have and what kind of services does it provide? I guess since it's a city and a state you'd have the responsibilities of both; welfare for the indigent, health, and education; but also city services like sanitation, parks, etc.

Anyways it's so hard to rank cities by inequality since one could have a much greater standard of living than the other. Especially the list of Latin American cities on the previous page.


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

Only the middle classes and upwards pay taxes really - 15% being the top limit. The lower classes - the large majority - pay up to 12% in some cases, but most much lower if at all of 2% tax.

This ensures the rich get richer, the middle class stays level, and the poor get poorer as their numbers grow.


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