# sydney is...



## fox1 (Apr 27, 2003)




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## Mr Bricks (May 6, 2005)

Sydney has to be one of the best cities in the world! Nice pics!


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## Pommes-T (Dec 7, 2005)

sooooo beautiful!


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## fox1 (Apr 27, 2003)




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## oliver999 (Aug 4, 2006)

SUCH A BEAUTIFUL CITY
colourful and modern.stunning
hope for more!


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## randolphan (May 2, 2006)

omg, jawdropping sydney!


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## *Pescadito* (Aug 13, 2005)

Next time I'll go to Sydney I hope I'll stay there ...


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## PeterSmith (Jul 6, 2005)

Never realized how beautiful it is. Might just be a new favorite of mine....


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## Cristovão471 (May 9, 2006)

Best city in the world


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

Sydney looks nice!


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## yin_yang (May 29, 2006)

fox1 said:


>


that pretty much makes it look like heaven...i need to go to australia soon


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## andypandy (Apr 28, 2004)

Great pics Fox, love the aerial shot of the CBD. Hope you don't mind if I post some more pics. BTW there are plenty more where these came from!


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## laxor (Feb 17, 2006)

is a city of contrasts


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## Heavenly Creature (Apr 2, 2006)

Sydney has the full package, it is one of the world's best cities by far, amazingly beautiful pictures. I have some more, so feast your eyes:


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## andypandy (Apr 28, 2004)

shameless bump


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## coq* (May 4, 2006)

fox1 said:


>



Sydney is so damn nice! Have to go there sometime! 
This on ewould have been a nice one to my desktop if it would have been larger!


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2006)

You have got to love this pic - it is so futuristic - Gr8 pics by the way:


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## Dallas star (Jul 6, 2006)

Buetiful stunning
Could do with out the tower though!


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## Bond James Bond (Aug 23, 2002)

Great stuff!


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## hoogbouw010 (Sep 10, 2002)

Fantastic distance views of the Sydney skyline.


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## cmoonflyer (Aug 17, 2005)

Nice thread !


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## sydney_lad (Dec 6, 2005)

Wow, great thread.

Would have loved to have seen more streetlevel pics


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## WinnipegPatriot (Apr 9, 2005)

Tina Turner sang it..."simply the best..."

Magnificent, a gleaming metropolis!


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

Sydney and Melbourne are among the world's most beautiful cities.

While Sydney obviously has some nice, old buildings, does it have as many as Melbourne?

P.S.: Is this Hyde Park? If so, I didn't realize that it's located in the center of the city like Central Park is.


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## VicFontaine (Jan 10, 2006)

thought I might add some of mine too... taken in (southern hemisphere's) winter '05:










Deutsche Bank rulez


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## andypandy (Apr 28, 2004)

LLoydGeorge said:


> Sydney and Melbourne are among the world's most beautiful cities.
> 
> While Sydney obviously has some nice, old buildings, does it have as many as Melbourne?
> 
> P.S.: Is this Hyde Park? If so, I didn't realize that it's located in the center of the city like Central Park is.


Sydney and Melbourne both have some impressive old buildings, I don't know which has the most (I haven't counted them!) but possibly Melbourne's are more noticeable.

In that pic you are looking at the Domain and the Botanic Gardens. You can just see the northern tip of Hyde Park on the extreme left of the photo.


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## jboy560 (Nov 6, 2005)

How much does it cost to live in Sydney. Is it really expensive? I don't know much about it, but it seems kind of like a San Francisco of Australia (really expensive, but extremely beautiful). Just curious about some cost of living facts, gracias.


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## andypandy (Apr 28, 2004)

Sydney is the biggest and most expensive city in Australia. Real estate is ridiculously expensive but compared to other first world countries that I've travelled/lived in food, entertainment, transport costs are favourable. Sorry I don't have stats...from memory Sydney is the 70th mlost expensive city in the world.


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

andypandy said:


> Sydney is the biggest and most expensive city in Australia. Real estate is ridiculously expensive but compared to other first world countries that I've travelled/lived in food, entertainment, transport costs are favourable. Sorry I don't have stats...from memory Sydney is the 70th mlost expensive city in the world.


I would guess that Sydney is not very expensive. I would have imagined it like Chicago. In Chicago and 3 bedroom apartment in a very nice area costs between US$600,000 and $650,000. I assumed that Sydney's housing cost much less than in NY or London.

I have heard that unlike most countries, in Australia, educated people from the US, Europe, etc. can become Aussie citizens fairly easily since the government wants to augment the population. Is that true?


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## MILIUX (Sep 13, 2002)

Median housing price for Sydney is 600 thousand dollars. 

Out further East near beaches you'd expect to pay average of 1 million dollars for a decent house. Some suburbs are up to 2.5 million dollars on average. It's all about location location. Places like close to beach, water view, city view, close to transport and close proximity to services are expensive.


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

My impression of Sydney and Melbourne is that, for the most part, Sydney has better modern buildings, but Melbourne has better older ones. They both look great though.


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## crazyeight (Dec 18, 2004)

Looks Amazing!


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## Sideshow_Bob (Jan 14, 2005)

Impressive!


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## andypandy (Apr 28, 2004)

LLoydGeorge said:


> I would guess that Sydney is not very expensive. I would have imagined it like Chicago. In Chicago and 3 bedroom apartment in a very nice area costs between US$600,000 and $650,000. I assumed that Sydney's housing cost much less than in NY or London.
> 
> I have heard that unlike most countries, in Australia, educated people from the US, Europe, etc. can become Aussie citizens fairly easily since the government wants to augment the population. Is that true?


Depending on the area Sydney can be VERY expensive for realestate. Not quite New York or London prices but you can spend a US$600k on a 3 bedroom apartment no problem. I heard once that in relative terms (average earnings to average house price) that Sydney was the most expensive city in the world to buy a house. Can't remember the source, and that may have changed given the slight fall in prices over the last 2 years.

As for immigration...it will probably be harder to get citizenship in the future but most people spend several years here as a permanent resident before being granted citizenship. There are several migration schemes including a skilled migrant visa. Check out the Australian Department of Immigration for more info.


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

andypandy said:


> Depending on the area Sydney can be VERY expensive for realestate. Not quite New York or London prices but you can spend a US$600k on a 3 bedroom apartment no problem. I heard once that in relative terms (average earnings to average house price) that Sydney was the most expensive city in the world to buy a house. Can't remember the source, and that may have changed given the slight fall in prices over the last 2 years.
> 
> As for immigration...it will probably be harder to get citizenship in the future but most people spend several years here as a permanent resident before being granted citizenship. There are several migration schemes including a skilled migrant visa. Check out the Australian Department of Immigration for more info.


Thanks for the info. Not only do Sydney and Melbourne look beautiful, but Aussies are quite cool too.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

Its too bad Aussies cities are mostly suburban like NA ones.


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## Cariad (Sep 22, 2005)

LtBk said:


> Its too bad Aussies cities are mostly suburban like NA ones.


Hmmm I would have to disagree, how many suburban cities have a harbour like Sydney and world status icons (bridge and opera house), how many suburban cities would rival Melbourne's architecture? How many suburban cities make it to the top 5 in the world for being liveable cities?
I admit some of our cities are rather bland looking, cities like Parramatta, Newcastle, Woollongong, but they are clean and safe, multicutural and still amidst beautiful settings on the beaches etc.
Brisbane is one of the fastest growing cities in the world. Gold Coast City, whilst a tourist trap has miles up miles of beaches and are getting some amazing and tall skyscrapers. 
Other cities such Adelaide, Canberra and Hobart are smaller and quieter but each have their own uniqueness and Hobart set on Tasmania has some wonderful nature and scenery. 
Darwin on the top end the gateway to the great national parks again is what is unique, the city of Darwin though quite uninspiring, just how I found Salt Lake City and Baltimore (sorry).
and Perth is still really a baby in some terms given that only 20 years ago it was a small town and now has a population of 2 million.
Every country has them, bland and sometimes boring city grow from neccesity more than from history or culturally which gives them the vibrance and atmosphere.
But honestly look up some other and lesser known cities, I think you will be surprised by some.


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## zzibit (Apr 17, 2006)

so pretty


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## grossrealisation (Oct 27, 2006)

hi all
to get an idea of cost to live in sydney.
a big mac is $4.00 and a mac meal is $6.75 so you can work it back in your own currency and see if its expencive 
milk is $2.20 per 2ltr and papers are $2.10 you won't get much in the city for under 800k 2br and they wont have water views. 
you will need to be over 1.2 mil for a 2br for water views.
yes we do have very beautiful city it has been said that sydney is one ofthe most expencive cities but that to buy into real estate.
from a living point of view we are alot cheaper then most of europe.
you can still get business migration.for anyone that want any information on sydney this is my first post but by all means send me an email and I can tell you about it I am here in the middle of sydney.
[email protected]


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

Can someone post photos of Sydney's pre-WWII buildings?

PS: Do Australia and New Zealand have a common defense policy or was that limited to WWII (i.e., the ANZACS).


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## MILIUX (Sep 13, 2002)

Australia and New Zealand doesn't have common defence policy. ANZUS treaty is over. 

I can show you Australia's colonial buildings dating back to 18th century.


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## andypandy (Apr 28, 2004)

Sweet pix Miliux. I walked round the Rocks today...great spot, feels like you're in Europe at times.


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## Kaiser (Oct 16, 2005)

10/10!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Really Spectacular Sceneries!

I ♥ Sydney!


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

MILIUX said:


> Australia and New Zealand doesn't have common defence policy. ANZUS treaty is over.
> 
> I can show you Australia's colonial buildings dating back to 18th century....


Thanks.

P.S.: Great photos.


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## ausharris (Oct 1, 2006)

LLoydGeorge said:


> I would guess that Sydney is not very expensive. I would have imagined it like Chicago. In Chicago and 3 bedroom apartment in a very nice area costs between US$600,000 and $650,000. I assumed that Sydney's housing cost much less than in NY or London.
> 
> I have heard that unlike most countries, in Australia, educated people from the US, Europe, etc. can become Aussie citizens fairly easily since the government wants to augment the population. Is that true?


Is this guy serious!? Are you serious? Sydney has the most over valued housing prices in the western world -OECD!!!! I thought that was just general knowledge!? I wish it was as cheap as chicago, I would be able to survive. Sydney is more expensive than any and every American city except for NY, which is only 9 cities more expensive. Its the 19th most expensive city. 

Apartment in a nice area $650k?? Your joking! I wish! That will get you an average joe house 40 mins outside the city! To live in a nice house you will need a whole million mate and near the city about 1.2million and in the city.. forget about it!!! Sydney is much more expensive than LA and SAN FRAN - Not as expensive as Zurich, but much more expensive than the US. When I went to the US I was in heaven! It was dirt cheap. Some expensive places in US but mostly cheap. Nothn cheap here mate, its all hefty! The place is eye candy and has anything and everything in the world, but theres a price ya gotta pay!

This is the official list.... Mercer Human Resource Consulting are the global officials who stipulate the statistics and which governments run by. 
1. Moscow

2. Seoul

3. Tokyo

4. Hong Kong

5. London

6. Osaka

7. Geneva

8. Copenhagen

9. Zurich

10. Oslo

10. New York

12. St Petersburg, Russia

13. Milan

14. Beijing

15. Istanbul

15. Paris

17. Singapore

18. Dublin

19. Sydney

20. Shanghai

21. Rome

21. Kiev

21. Vienna, Austria

24. Tel Aviv

25. Helsinki

25. Dubai, United Arab Emirates

27. Douala, Cameroon

28. Taipei

29. Los Angeles

30. Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates

31. Lagos

32. Beirut

32. Hanoi

34. Sao Paolo

34. San Francisco

36. Stockholm

37. Ho Chi Minh City

38. Chicago

39. Miami

40. Rio de Janeiro

41. Lusaka, Zambia

41. Amsterdam

43. White Plains, New York state.

44. Shenzen, China

45. Abidjan, Ivory Coast

45. Dakar, Senegal

47. Toronto

48. Jakarta.

48. Bratislava, Slovak Republic

50. Prague, Czech Republic

Others:

74. Melbourne

93. Perth

99. Brisbane

100. Auckland

105. Wellington

108. Adelaide

Source: Mercer Human Resource Consulting


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## MILIUX (Sep 13, 2002)

more photos of sydney

flickr - (strike1)



























Eastern Suburbs









Sydney Hyde Park & Botanic Garden









Largest natural harbour in the world









Sydney CBD on top right. 









Narrabean beach, just north of CBD


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## kiku99 (Sep 17, 2002)

Sydney is a beautiful city. but it, imo, is quite dirty with many homeless people compared to other Aust. cities but its skyline is surely superbkay:.

here are a few pics of mine.


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## kiku99 (Sep 17, 2002)




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## ausharris (Oct 1, 2006)

Thats look just like MANHATTAN those pics!!! Except cleaner and with a harbour and brighter. And manhattan is bigger, but otherwise they look identical. Sydney is very nice! Much nicer than any other Aus city by far!!!! And million times bigger! No wonder why they say it is the greatest place in the universe! Theres no place like Sydney and NY!


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

Sydney looks nice, but its too suburban for my tastes.


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## sydney_lad (Dec 6, 2005)

ausharris said:


> Thats look just like MANHATTAN those pics!!! Except cleaner and with a harbour and brighter. And manhattan is bigger, but otherwise they look identical. Sydney is very nice! Much nicer than any other Aus city by far!!!! And million times bigger! No wonder why they say it is the greatest place in the universe! Theres no place like Sydney and NY!


I wouldn't go that far, mate. :lol:


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## Cristovão471 (May 9, 2006)

Love it, been there 500 times but needs to be more dense.


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## Booyashako (Sep 11, 2002)

ausharris said:


> This is the official list.... Mercer Human Resource Consulting are the global officials who stipulate the statistics and which governments run by.
> 1. Moscow
> 
> 2. Seoul
> ...


This list measures COST OF LIVING, not cost of housing.



> Sydney has the most over valued housing prices in the western world -OECD!!!! I thought that was just general knowledge!? Sydney is more expensive than any and every American city except for NY


There are actually quite a few North American cities with higher real estate values than Sydney:

Avg. Price in USD for a 2,200 sq.ft. Home in 2006
Los Angeles, CA...$1,565,099 
San Jose, CA...$1,410,662
San Francisco, CA...$1,363,750
Boston, MA...$1,275,000 
Chicago, IL...$916,667
Vancouver, BC...$887,762
Washington DC...$791,750
Miami, FL...$690,855 
...plus NYC and countless other smaller-sized hot markets
_Sydney, NSW...$683,109_

BTW...I thought I might add that my city is not that far behind Sydney (Toronto...$654,602) 

Avg. Price in USD for a 1,400 sq.ft. Condo in 2005
New York City, NY...$1,448,000
Boston, MA...$981,250
San Francisco, CA...$975,500
Seattle, WA...$712,000
Los Angeles, CA...$674,000
Atlanta, GA...$589,750
Philadelphia, PA...$582,500
Washington, D.C...$569,475
_Sydney, NSW...$512,326_

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060927/nyw012.html?.v=75
http://www.coldwellbanker.com/servlet/News?action=viewNewsItem&contentId=700591&customerType=News



> I wish it was as cheap as chicago


Consider your wish granted! :lol:



BTW...those pics are stunning! If only Sydney wasn't too far away or I at least knew people who lived nearby, and if I weren't arachnophobic, my next google search would be: "Immigration Australia" ...but just in case, how is the demand for Commerce/Real Estate degree holders from Canada down there?


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## MILIUX (Sep 13, 2002)

Sydney's real estate has plateaued so i dunno about your real estate degree. But Commerce...i think you can do well. 

Just say you're doing Property economics.


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## blue_milkyway88 (Jan 24, 2006)

Speechless ^_^ Sydney is the most beautiful city in Aus  hope I'll visit it someday  , any photos from Melbourne ???, thanks !


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## ausharris (Oct 1, 2006)

Booyashako said:


> This list measures COST OF LIVING, not cost of housing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What are you talking about? $683k yes if you want to live in western sydney. Nobody understands Sydney. It is huge, maybe not so much the city, but the burbs go on and on. The majority of the population live in blacktown 45 minutes outside the city. It is all congested. You could drive 1 hr passed the city and be stuck on bumpy roads in traffic. That will get you a good house in western Sydney. The figures are wrong. Dude, i wish i could buy a good house for that much in more central Sydney, East or inner. 1.2mill.... sorry mate but thats the reality, although I like your idea better. 

The Mercer Consulting measures everything. Not just cost of living, it even includes real-estate. 
I totally agree! We are so far from everything. Imagine we weren't so far, i think we would be inundated with people. There are PLENTY of Canadians here, but not as much as people from the UK. Real-estate will ALWAYS be in demand in Sydney, as I said the burbs my friend are massive. Although we are a bit slow right now, there is still demand. Commerce degree, yep. Finance and commerce are the main employers! I checked it out on seek, lol.


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## Booyashako (Sep 11, 2002)

^^I bet the people in Shanghai and Beijing felt nobody understood them when the Coldwell Banker study valued them at around $65,000 on that list :lol: 

Take a trip up here and you'll find that Sydney's sprawl/traffic congestion situation is not that unique, it may even be less severe.

The Coldwell Banker study is strictly based on city propers. I think the reason Sydney's values may seem low to you is becuase the city itself is larger than the other cities listed - probably around the same as LA and Chicago at ~3mil compared with San Francisco, Boston and Vancouver with <1mil - which means a greater range of property values and a moderated average value for Sydney. The same case exists for Toronto with a population of 2.5mil. I bet if you took the most expensive area of Sydney and even Toronto with populations around say 500k-700k, you would have values much closer to some of the similar sized cities on the list. However, Chicago and LA are just more expensive, you can't get around it.

Mercer Consulting does include housing, but when you're exclusively talking about real estate it's kinda inapproprate to use a measure that includes things like groceries, rent (which doesn't always parallel the ownership market) and energy costs when comparing different cities. For example, San Francisco and Vancouver are ranked lower than Los Angeles and Toronto respectively in the Mercer study even though the former cities have higher real estate values. Keep in mind for Vancouver and Toronto's situation, although property may be more expensive in Vancouver, rents and groceries and insurance are more expensive in Toronto. Get what I mean?

Rest assured Sydney is an awesome place, but there will ALWAYS be high demand for real estate in ANY growing city, regardless of how great that city may be (i.e. Fort McMurray lol...look it up).


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## Tony P (Sep 11, 2002)

Someone ask for street photos?

Here you go. These were all taken in August 2006.

















































^ Peace to you too, matey.


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## sydney_lad (Dec 6, 2005)

^^^^

Brilliant.

Cheers mate.


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## Ian (Nov 26, 2006)

So beautiful!!!!!!!! and the street scenes are awesome


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## cobol (Dec 23, 2006)

Those aerial of Sydney skyline pix are awsome!:applause:


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## ausharris (Oct 1, 2006)

wow those pics are little deceiving.... they make Sydney look so clean! lol sorry I have to admitt that... its not fair otherwise for outsiders who see them. 

P.s. dude from Vancouver: I have been to the states, you cannot compare costs, between US cities and Sydney. In US i was rich, in Sydney I am poor. America is dirt cheap except for NY. My cousins two storey in chicago was 300k he lives 20 mins outside the city. 20 mins outside the city here.i.e. Rhodes? [i use that as an example because thats where my friends just bought] 1.35 million 2 bdr apartment; because apparently you can see rotting water. There is no comparison mate, i have seen it with my own eyes between costs and real estate. Come on you're in real estate... you should know this. Sure there are million dollar homes in Chicago and NY but there is everywhere else in the world too, but the average joe blow home is MUCH cheaper in the states than Sydney and Europe. 

Yes I know about the whole traffic business. But is it the same in Canada? I wouldn't think there would be traffic there? isnt Canada kinda like Melb? Is it the same in other cities as it is in Sydney, whereby even if you are like 40 mins outside the city it is still congested in the mornings and afternoon in multiple directions???

Come live in Sydney, best place to be, but you'll have to be making VERY good money to afford to live here, especially on your own.


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## wiki (Mar 30, 2006)

sydney is beautiful


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## Lastresorter (Nov 24, 2004)

ausharris said:


> Come live in Sydney, best place to be, but you'll have to be making VERY good money to afford to live here, especially on your own.


I have to agree with you on this. Sydney is very much more expensive if compared to Melbourne. I don't buy properties in Australia so I wouldnt know much. But to speak from a person who rented places, Sydney is extremely expensive. Say, in Melbourne, I could rent a furnished apartment at around USD180/week in the CBD, comfortably. But in Sydney, to rent a furnished apartment would have to be at least USD250/week, and most of them are either pretty run down or not really in the CBD. Say, to rent one in a more decent place on Pitt Street you need around USD300/week onwards. 

In South Yarra, a suburb around 20min by tram from Melbourne CBD, you need around USD110/week for an unfurnished 1 bedroom apartment. However, in Surry Hills, a suburb around 10min by bus from Sydney CBD, you need around USD200/week for an unfurnished 1 bedroom apartment. 

I'm not too sure how Aussies rate the cleanliness of Sydney and Melbourne, but from a foreigner's point of view, Melbourne is certainly much cleaner and more comfortable to live in. 

Nonetheless, Sydney skyline is still amazing


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## KaRoLiNa_CoLoMbIa (Nov 18, 2006)

so beautiful..!!!


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## Brendan (Feb 24, 2006)

The best city on Earth. I am so happy I live here.


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## Booyashako (Sep 11, 2002)

ausharris said:


> P.s. dude from Vancouver: I have been to the states, you cannot compare costs, between US cities and Sydney. In US i was rich, in Sydney I am poor. America is dirt cheap except for NY. My cousins two storey in chicago was 300k he lives 20 mins outside the city. 20 mins outside the city here.i.e. Rhodes? [i use that as an example because thats where my friends just bought] 1.35 million 2 bdr apartment; because apparently you can see rotting water. There is no comparison mate, i have seen it with my own eyes between costs and real estate. Come on you're in real estate... you should know this. Sure there are million dollar homes in Chicago and NY but there is everywhere else in the world too, but the average joe blow home is MUCH cheaper in the states than Sydney and Europe.


Your word versus a 2006 Coldwell Banker study...

BTW...When did your cousins purchase their home? A few years can make a huge difference, especially in California markets, Vancouver, the Northeast, Florida, California, Vancouver, and did I mention California and Vancouver? We've only begun to see the end of the property boom here in North America, but I know that Sydney's market has been slumping since 2003.

P.S. I don't live in Vancouver, although if I decide not to leave the country I may decide to relocate there...wonderful place too (as property values dictate)



> Yes I know about the whole traffic business. But is it the same in Canada? I wouldn't think there would be traffic there? isnt Canada kinda like Melb? Is it the same in other cities as it is in Sydney, whereby even if you are like 40 mins outside the city it is still congested in the mornings and afternoon in multiple directions???


Come and see for yourself! 

*hint* Highway 401 in Toronto is the most travelled highway in North America (incl. LA) 



> Come live in Sydney, best place to be, but you'll have to be making VERY good money to afford to live here, especially on your own.


I did an mls search for Sydney homes and there were some pretty nice homes in the suburban areas that my family could afford (4 bed 3 bath 3 car garage homes)...glad to know that we haven't yet been priced out of the metro Sydney market  unlike the Bay Area and the LA/OC area excluding the Inland Empire  

Oh, and I found a home in Rhodes, 3br 2bath 3 car garage for only AUD$525k...I think your friend got ripped off :lol:


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## ausharris (Oct 1, 2006)

Who is this guy? Why is he arguing with me... I live here! I think I would know more than you.

As i mentioned 1.35 million as per waterview... outdated water too. His balcony is pretty high up to. Thats not the point. The point is why are you arguing with me? I agree every house in Sydney should be like 2 dollars, but you wanted to know how expensive Sydney was.

Your parents could afford a 4 bdr in Sydney? wow they must be pretty lucky. Which area? Bankstown or Mt Druitt? 
BTW: Sydney market is a bit quiet now but still very expensive. I don't know what it costs for a house in LA, i have never bought there, but i am telling you now, Sydney houses have the MOST overvalued housing prices in the western world. Maybe that just means they are not worth their price, but fact is they are pretty expensive, so if ya wanna live here, ya have to fork some money out. Cost of living is VERY high too, more than LA, Vancouver and Canada. 

Where are you from? Vancouver? Are you from LA? Canada? Im confused.. where do you live.. Are you from Chicago? 

Anyway, today i was able to afford a whole Oportos meal... lol jk 

Last resorter: I agree. I have to admit Sydney is much dirtier than Melb. But thats always the case with bigger cities. Yes Melb is very nice! but unfortunately not much density at all and ghost town at night.


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## Booyashako (Sep 11, 2002)

I never thought of this as an argument, merely a discussion. Just putting things in perspective...with a smile 

I too have read that Australia has the most overvalued homes in the western world and I don't dispute that, but a select few markets in the US and Canada have pricier real estate, that's all I'm saying, and I've provided the numbers. Prices in Sydney may be overvalued, but they are more or less justified relative to other cities due to the many amenities and attractive attributes that Sydney has to offer, just as is the case with SF and Vancouver. I can comment on various cities here in North America because I've been to most of them (I've been to all the cities I've listed with the exception of Miami...Vancouver and LA are like my second homes) and researching data on these cities (incl. mls listings) such as what I've presented is somewhat of a hobby (I like to know what kind of home we my family could afford in different markets and how my market, Toronto, compares). My method for entering such discussions is: if I don't agree with something, I'll look it up, and if what I find conflicts with what someone has said, I bring it to their attention - which is what I've done.

When I first clicked to enter this thread, all I expected was to look at a collection of photos of one of the world's most remarkable cities, but when someone makes unsubstantiated generalizations against my city, country, or continent, I feel it is my duty to make sure that the misconceptions are corrected - hence, putting things in perspective. 

I think we've hijacked this thread enough, if you wish to further discuss real estate in North America and Australia, feel free to PM me, I'm always up for discussing real estate and am particularly interested in our two continents.


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## Platypus (May 3, 2006)

MILIUX said:


> Australia and New Zealand doesn't have common defence policy. ANZUS treaty is over.


I don't think thats right. There is still an ANZUS treaty with cooperation between Australia and NZ and obviously between Australia and the US. There is less cooperation between NZ and the US because of the NZ Government ban on Nuclear powered ships.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANZUS


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## kiku99 (Sep 17, 2002)

Lastresorter said:


> I have to agree with you on this. Sydney is very much more expensive if compared to Melbourne. I don't buy properties in Australia so I wouldnt know much. But to speak from a person who rented places, Sydney is extremely expensive. Say, in Melbourne, I could rent a furnished apartment at around USD180/week in the CBD, comfortably. But in Sydney, to rent a furnished apartment would have to be at least USD250/week, and most of them are either pretty run down or not really in the CBD. Say, to rent one in a more decent place on Pitt Street you need around USD300/week onwards.
> 
> In South Yarra, a suburb around 20min by tram from Melbourne CBD, you need around USD110/week for an unfurnished 1 bedroom apartment. However, in Surry Hills, a suburb around 10min by bus from Sydney CBD, you need around USD200/week for an unfurnished 1 bedroom apartment.
> 
> ...


From my experience, rent in Melbourne isn't that cheap as you said. If talking about a decent furnished apt. in Mel CBD, it should cost you no less than 220 a week. Even i am living in a student in accomodation in Carlton area, it still costs me over $200 a week. 
Anyways, i agree with you all that Sydney skyline is really awesome


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## XCRunner (Nov 19, 2005)

Sydney is... stunning.


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## XCRunner (Nov 19, 2005)

I'm checking on Wikipedia... it says Sydney has an area of over 12000 sq. km, and a population of about 4.3 million, which means its density is only 346 ppl per sq km. Is it like HK, w/ tons of undeveloped land within its official boundaries? If you count just the developed part of the city, what other city would you say Sydney is similar to in terms of density?


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## sydney_lad (Dec 6, 2005)

XCRunner said:


> I'm checking on Wikipedia... it says Sydney has an area of over 12000 sq. km, and a population of about 4.3 million, which means its density is only 346 ppl per sq km. Is it like HK, w/ tons of undeveloped land within its official boundaries? If you count just the developed part of the city, what other city would you say Sydney is similar to in terms of density?


Within Sydney's official boundries includes a shit load of park land.


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## Cristovão471 (May 9, 2006)

Isn't the blue mountains national park included in the boundaries? 
But there still is alot of Urban Sprawl, which they have just released new plans to tackle it.


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## mic (Jun 27, 2004)

ausharris said:


> Last resorter: I agree. I have to admit Sydney is much dirtier than Melb. But thats always the case with bigger cities. Yes Melb is very nice! but unfortunately not much density at all and ghost town at night.


Melbourne is a better planned city. We dont have oneway streets that carry large amounts of traffic. Most of our city streets within the CBD (DOWNTOWN) all carry 4 lanes of traffic. 2 one way, and 2 the other way. 

The CBD is really not a ghost town at all, you need to explore the little streets and laneways and this is where you will find the nightlife areas. Along with this Melbourne has purposley not developed an intensive nightlife area because areas like this cause problems. We dont have a Cavill Ave like in the Gold Coast because it simply does not work with Melbourne's style of nightlife.

Areas like Cavill Ave attract scum, it looks cheap and nasty and people dress like utter crap. Melbournes best clubs are spread out, hidden and often a tourist like your self wouldnt know where they are, and Thank God for that. Exclusivity is what has given Melbourne its reptuation for good nightlife. Adding to this Melbourne has the most relaxed liquor licencing laws in Australia, cafes and small shops serve alcohol, and some of the most liberal opening hours of nightlife in the nation. Pubs are open til 6am, clubs have 24 hour licencing during weekends and Revolver is open 24/7.

You need to look and search in Melbourne to find the best things, its classic, its hidden and its fun.

Melbourne may also lack density, but honestly a city of 4.25Million (sydney) and a city of 3.7 Million (melbourne) really isnt that different, and with Melbourne growing faster than Sydney for the last 5 years that gap will only narrow slightly in the coming years. You honestly cannot say that Sydney is in a total different class than Melbourne, because it really isnt, a few more skyscrapers does not make a city better than another one, because Skyscrapers can be built, but a cities beat, buzz and culture comes from within, it comes from the people, and honestly Melbourne rocks.


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## samba_man (Dec 26, 2004)

I just Love OZ :yes:


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## ausharris (Oct 1, 2006)

mic said:


> Melbourne is a better planned city. We dont have oneway streets that carry large amounts of traffic. Most of our city streets within the CBD (DOWNTOWN) all carry 4 lanes of traffic. 2 one way, and 2 the other way.
> 
> The CBD is really not a ghost town at all, you need to explore the little streets and laneways and this is where you will find the nightlife areas. Along with this Melbourne has purposley not developed an intensive nightlife area because areas like this cause problems. We dont have a Cavill Ave like in the Gold Coast because it simply does not work with Melbourne's style of nightlife.
> 
> ...


But Sydney IS in a totally different class than Melbourne... so why can't I say it? Sydney is a global city and its economy is much larger than any other Aus. city, Melb isn't a global city and hasn't got such a relatively large economy, and its evident when you walk in the streets of Sydney why that fact is a fact, So why can't I say that? You said it yourself, its not about the buildings its about the buzz... Anyway, I don't want to get in to this argument because I dont want to be seen putting down Melb, because I like Melb. and I dont care, I was just saying I found Melb city less active and dense than I imagined, but I enjoyed it! Much better than Brisbane!!!!

Just for the record, which I really dont care about anyway because I wont even be living here, according to ABS the gap between Sydney and Melb population will remain almost the exact same until Sydney is 625,000 people more than Melb in 2051, so I think you are going to be waiting for a VERY long time for a gap to close in. Also, almost a million more people cross the borders of Sydney every year than they do in Melb, so technically there is even a wider gap. I work at the immigration. There are more migrants to Sydney than Melb by much more than the population gap manifests. The only reason why the gap isn't larger is because Sydneysiders have the largest number of expatriates and internal relocations, especially to Brisbane and Queensland, way more than any other Aus. city because of how expensive Sydney is. However, did you know, the most people who relocate to Sydney are from Melbourne? And the least internal relocations in Australia are people from Sydney to Melbourne. You can go on ABS and check it out, thats where we get our stats from. Anyways I dont care, because I will be moving to the states, much cheaper than Sydney and there isnt really anywhere else I would rather live in Aus... (see, hence the Sydney expatriate trends).

Anyways, to all Melbournians you have a nice city, lets not argue who is better, because I hate these arguments. I also agree though that Melbourne population has grown rapidly; however rapidly for Melbourne is consistent for Sydney. Melbourne is cleaner, MUCH safer, and people there are very tolerant and friendly. I like how Melbourne is centralized and cheap too. In Sydney there are 6 or so other cities and HEAPS of corp. parks. Not as centralized as should be. Melbourne looks like Toronto, although stats say its a little more expensive in Toronto. I think Melb will only ever grow and I hope it does, Aus needs more major cities. 

P.s. Cavill Ave? pfft... Melb is better than Cavill Ave, i wouldn't be comparing Melb to Cavill Ave! Melb is like a city from Europe, Sydney is absolutely AmericaniZed, Brisbane is what Sydney probably looked like 50 years ago, and Perth may as well be in Africa, because it is so bloody far! They are all different, so lets not compare apples with oranges.


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## mic (Jun 27, 2004)

BUT 

Sydney hasnt been growing rapidly nor consitently. 29,000 PA is very low.

Adding to this the difference in intl migrants is less than 3000 between Melbourne and Sydney. They my friend are very comparable places.


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## sydney_lad (Dec 6, 2005)

Fuckin' hell.

Way to hijack a thread.


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