# The Paris suburbs - How the other half lives



## edubejar (Mar 16, 2003)

The Paris suburbs is a diversified urbanscape consisting of old town centers from formerly detached towns now absorbed by the Paris urban area, low-income housing projects built--often in clusters--between the 60s and 80s, and neighborhoods of single-family detached and semi-detached houses. It is the latter that may come to surprise to many here on SSC.

It has been suggested that "the other half" of Paris lives in gloomy, concrete, mid-rises and commieblocks in the suburbs, often in high-crime neighborhoods. But not everyone who lives in the suburbs live in these clusters of housing projects. Some live in 6-8 story apartments similar to those in Paris. Some live in sporadic attached or semi-attached houses in the older, near suburbs between apartment buildings. But many live in the single-family and light mixed-use neighborhoods of the more-distant suburbs.

Thanks to Street View pics on maps.google.com, these neighborhoods can now be visited without having to drive or walk there. Like the denser neighborhoods, these sporadic houses and single-family neighborhoods vary from low-income to high-income, yet most are middle-class. The high-income residential suburbs are concentrated in the West. Many of these single-family neighborhoods are very green with many trees and some are laid-out on a grid or other planned patterns.

Yerres










Pontault










Lésigny










La Celle St-Cloud








(2)










Viroflay










Versailles








(2)










Vélizy










Vaucresson










St-Cloud










Sceaux








(2)










Montesson










Meudon










Marly-le-Roi










Le Vésinet








(2)










Le Chesnay










Fontenay-sous-Bois










Combault










Clamart - some attached houses










Chatou










Boulogne-Billancourt (a posh near-suburb with some detached houses)










Vitry-sur-Seine










Villeneuve










Villeparisis










Villemomble










Vigneux-sur-Seine










Vaires-sur-Marne










Saint-Thibault des Vignes










Saint-Gratien










Saint-Germain-en-Laye (an old town in the posh West suburbs with some detached houses)










Sevran










Savigny-sur-Orge










Sartrouville










Paray-Vielle Poste (near Orly Int'l Airport)










Palaiseau










Neuilly-sur-Seine (a posh near-suburb between Paris and La Défense)








(2)








(3)











I will post more later today


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

Don't forget the Seine Saint Denis, even the poor communes of Seine Saint Denis have many of little house.


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## el casanovas (Jun 1, 2008)

That's horrid


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## Iskandar (Oct 5, 2008)

el casanovas said:


> That's horrid


I think it looks nice. For suburbia.


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## alitezar (Mar 10, 2006)

Very beautiful homes.

How did you get to use google map to zoom this much close please?


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## Erolisk (Aug 18, 2008)

Je trouve plutot ces maisons normales ,rien de luxueux, qu'on on voit les maisons de la cote d'azur y'a pas photo


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## edubejar (Mar 16, 2003)

@ Minatu ku: I did not divide these by _département_ but if I did not feature a _commune_ from Seine-Saint-Denis some will appear below.

alitezar: To view Street View images in Google Maps you must hold down the yellow man icon just above the zoom-in control. A blue outline will appear on the roads for which Street View images are available. Drop the yellow man's shadow over the street you want to tour.



Nanterre (just west of La Défense)










Morangis










Monfermeil










Maisons-Alfort










L'Haÿ-les-Roses










Les Pavillons-sous-Bois (in Seine-Saint-Denis _département_!)










Le Raincy (in Seine-Saint-Denis _département_!)










Gournay-sur-Marne (Seine-Saint-Denis)










Gagny (Seine-Saint-Denis)











Drancy (Seine-Saint-Denis)








(2) major road through Drancy










Garges-les-Gonesses










Les Clayes-sous-Bois










Guyancourt










Fourqueux










Ermont










Enghien-les-Bains (Northern suburbs...not all posh suburbs are in the West)








(2)








(3)










Eaubonne










Draveil










Croissy-sur-Seine








(2)










Cormeilles










Colombes










Choisy-le-Roi










Chelles










Cergy (a planned community at the end of the northwestern suburbs)










Bussy St-George (a planned community in the very distant eastern suburbs before arriving in Disneyland Paris)










Bry-sur-Marne










Bourg-la-Reine (a single-family street or neighborhood of Greater Paris is rarely far by foot from apartment buildings and other high-density development)










Athis Mons










Below are some street views typical of the *near-suburbs* immediately outside the Paris ring road to contrast with street views above. With some exceptions (mainly in the posh West side and around Vincennes Woods), these near-suburbs often consist of very dense, irregular streets. Houses there are often old, unless remodeled or rebuilt, and they are often well mixed with apartment buildings and other land uses, rather than on streets or neighborhoods that are dominantly single-family, like in the more-distant suburbs shown above. 

Saint-Ouen










Montreuil (many near-suburbs have dilapidated houses and buildings, especially in small streets) 










Gentilly










Arcueil (humble houses in front of an elevated RER line)










To further contrast with the pics above, here are some street views showing *housing projects* in the Paris suburbs. Housing projects are often built in clusters and they can be found in both the near- and distant-suburbs. The Seine-Saint-Denis _département_ in the northeastern suburbs is known for having many. This is what some believe Paris suburbs to be all about.

Sarcelles (just outside Seine-Saint-Denis administrative boundary)










La Courneuve (Seine-Saint-Denis)










Bobigny (Seine-Saint-Denis)










Aubervilliers (Seine-Saint-Denis, just outside of the Paris ring road)


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## Erolisk (Aug 18, 2008)

Good job :cheers:
What about noisy le grand it's where i live


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## MNiemann (Sep 5, 2007)

what an interesting way to display the paris suburbs. looks very nice. could easily be any well-kept suburbs in New York City or London


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## iswhat (Mar 19, 2009)

Clichy-Sous-Bois:



















Montfermeil:


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## intensivecarebear (Feb 2, 2006)

el casanovas said:


> That's horrid


no its not! They look nice. Where the hell do you live?

I like that most of the streets have trees on them


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

Erolisk said:


> Je trouve plutot ces maisons normales ,rien de luxueux, qu'on on voit les maisons de la cote d'azur y'a pas photo


His point wasn't to show luxurious houses, his point was to show a broad array of streets and houses in the Paris suburbs. I think in this thread there is a good sample of how the Paris suburbs look. Great thread. kay:

You can also check this other thread, which shows diverse Parisian suburbs: Urban diversity in the Paris suburbs.


edubejar said:


> The Paris suburbs - How the other half lives


Actually it's not half of the Parisians who live in the so-called suburbs. It's 80% of the Parisians. Only 2 million people, i.e. 20% of the Paris urban area's population, live in the City of Paris proper.


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## edubejar (Mar 16, 2003)

brisavoine said:


> His point wasn't to show luxurious houses, his point was to show a broad array of streets and houses in the Paris suburbs. I think in this thread there is a good sample of how the Paris suburbs look. Great thread. kay:
> 
> You can also check this other thread, which shows diverse Parisian suburbs: Urban diversity in the Paris suburbs.
> 
> Actually it's not half of the Parisians who live in the so-called suburbs. It's 80% of the Parisians. Only 2 million people, i.e. 20% of the Paris urban area's population, live in the City of Paris proper.


Well yes, it's more like 80% rather than 50% of the people in the Paris Region that live in the suburbs since Paris only houses around 2.2 million but the title is a take-on on the photo-journalistic work _How the Other Half Lives_ documenting the slums of New York City (i.e. tenements). That phrase was used before to describe the Paris suburbs (e.g. HLMs) when in fact a lot of the Paris suburbs consist of these detached single-family neighborhoods or group of streets that have many single-family houses mixed with some apartment buildings and only a few shops (or in the case of many working-class neighborhoods: workshops, small factories, etc.).

The area occupied by these group of streets and neighborhoods in the more-distant suburbs of Paris is very, very large. It therefore seems bizarre that those parts are rarely acknowledged when speaking of the Paris suburbs. That is why I wanted to show these street view pics. 

I think Greater Paris is a bit unique in how it has a lot of high-density, a lot of mid-density and even a lot of low-density development. None seems to dominate the other by far. But what makes the low-density in Greater Paris quite acceptable (as in London, too) is that big-lot housing development accessible only by car are very rare. Most have sidewalks that lead somewhere and many are accessible by suburban rail AND many have their own town center wish shops which can be reached by foot or bike if so desired.


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

brisavoine said:


> His point wasn't to show luxurious houses, his point was to show a broad array of streets and houses in the Paris suburbs.


Yes it is exactly what edubejar said earlier.



edubejar said:


> Like the denser neighborhoods, these sporadic houses and single-family neighborhoods vary from low-income to high-income, yet most are middle-class.


What can be weird (not in USA but in Europe) is that there is quite many low income house, these are mainly in outer suburbs or northeastern suburbs.
It is the type of house that you see when you ride in the northern RER B.
I especially think of Le Blanc Mesnil or Aulnay sous Bois.



> But what makes the low-density in Greater Paris quite acceptable (as in London, too) is that big-lot housing development accessible only by car are very rare. Most have sidewalks that lead somewhere and many are accessible by suburban rail AND many have their own town center wish shops which can be reached by foot or bike if so desired.


Anyway, these are quite can centric expecially when you work in suburbs. It is almost impossible to go from a suburbs to an other suburbs without transfert in the inner city.

Imagine if you live in the east at 15 km of the center and that your work is in the southeast at 15 km of the center. It is faster and more convienent to take the crowded motorway than the crowded transportation system.
Unlike the metro/RER/suburban train you don't need to drive through the inner city.

That's why there is two big circular transportation projects.
The metropherique in the inner suburbs, this underground metro line would deserve the dense area and linking every metro and RER line.
Grand Ceinture Tangantielle : Suburban train lines in outer suburbs, this line would link RER and suburban train using existing track.
With these lines many suburbanite could use transporation to go at work, University... without transfering in the center.


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## edubejar (Mar 16, 2003)

*A close-up at Choisy-le-Roi*

When I used to visit a friend at Choisy-le-Roi on the RER C line, I recall a working-class street with many simple, little houses. I was surprised to find some nice houses on Rue Babeuf with houses that are more than simple. I think this street is on the nicer side of Choisy-le-Roi.

*Rue Babeuf* in *Choisy-le-Roi *(southeastern suburb along the Seine River)































I love these stone houses common in the Paris suburbs with those roofs!










Great example on Rue Babeuf of medium density in some Paris suburbs where detached or semi-attached houses are mixed with the occasional apartment building.










More stone houses










On Rue Babeuf, walking towards Avenue de la Republique (more stone houses across Av. de la République)










Now on Av. de la République, looking back at Rue Babeuf










Facing south on Av. de la République (as if walking further away from Paris)


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## Tony Resta (Jul 3, 2007)

Most of them pictures don't look bad at all, i mean, it's clean first of all, nice trees, nice houses with flowers and gates, nice cars, and no graffiti, doesn't look that bad, although i guess you have to see the people too before you judge a place.


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## edubejar (Mar 16, 2003)

*The extensive eastern suburbs*

Here are some aerial screen-shots (all same scale) of the more-distant eastern suburbs of Paris. It is the more-distant suburbs like these where neighborhoods and groups of streets of single-family houses are present in large numbers. Yet even in these suburbs there are pockets and corridors of higher density, particularly in public housing clusters and suburban town-centers. Higher density is also found along some main roads.

RER or Transilien train stations are used as reference whenever possible. There is no overlap among these screen-shots, except on the very edges or corners at times.

station Villiers-sur-Marne & station Noisy-le-Grand (RER Line E)










station Villepinte & station Parc des Expositions (RER Line B)










station Vert Galant & station Villeparisis - Mitry-le-Neuf (RER Line B)










Vaires-sur-Marne & Brou-sur-Chantereine (Transilien Train P)










Torcy & Saint-Germain-des-Noyers (La Francilienne highway)










station Roissy-en-Brie (RER Line E)










Montfermeil & Chelles (Avenue de Claye/D34 highway)










Les Pavillons-sous-Bois & Livry-Gargan (N3 highway & l'Ourcq canal)
You can see the big projects (public housing) of Clichy-sous-Bois in the SE corner of this pic. That is where the riots of Oct/Nov 2005 began.










station Le Raincy-Villemomble & station Gagny (RER Line E)










station Le Chenay-Gagny & station Chelles-Gournay (RER Line E)










station Joinville-le-Pont (RER Line A) & station Champigny (RER Line E)










Gournay-sur-Marne & Champs-sur-Marne (Marne river)










station Emerainville - Pontault-Combault (RER Line E)










station Bussy-Saint-Georges (RER Line A)










station Bry-sur-Marne (RER Line A) & station Nogent-sur-Marne (RER Line E)










station Aulnay-sous-Bois & station Sevran-Livry (RER Line B)


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## elbart089 (Nov 18, 2007)

They look good but there is something I don't understand, wth if they have the possibility to build new wider streets, they build this super narrow one-laned streets?


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## edubejar (Mar 16, 2003)

elbart089 said:


> They look good but there is something I don't understand, wth if they have the possibility to build new wider streets, they build this super narrow one-laned streets?


There is probably more than one reason. A constant problem of Greater Paris is that the continuously-built up area is composed of 300+ independant administrative areas called _communes_ which are essentially municipalities with their own mayors. Those 300+ communes are divided into 7 _départements_. Paris is its own _département_ in the very center, forming an 8th department with the number 75. Each administrative area often plans and acts for itself, often with little regard for neighboring ones. This means that streets are often laid-out to only serve the local residents and not pass-byers. Some may even say it helps discourage traffic because cars are attracted to wider roads. But even the major arterials are often not that much wider.

Another reason may be that a lot of people there use public transit, even in the suburbs. Even if you see cars in most houses, a lot of people will commute for work by rail and use their cars for leisure and non-work commutes. But you do have a lot of people who drive, too--much more than inside Paris. You usually don't see traffic on those highly-residential streets.

And yet another reason is that everything is built tighter in Europe, generally-speaking. The idea of occupying a lot of land is not common. They may figure that you build a street wide enough to accomodate ONLY the local residents of the street plus a few more cars. Again, I don't think they are built as "collectors" but only as local streets. Also, think that wheras people in more car-oriented places will hop in their car for everything, in Greater Paris many people may walk or bike to the nearby grocery store, or to the suburban town's city-centre if it's nearby.


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

It is interresting to see in these aerial view that Paris suburbs are very green. There is many parks and forest.


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