# Toronto's new 5 star hotels



## b13 (Jan 14, 2007)

Stating in 2009-2011 Toronto will start seeing new 5 star hotels. These includes the Ritz-Carleton(2009), Four Seasons(2009), Trump Toronto(2010), and Shangri-la(2011). With all these new developments Toronto will see over 800 new 5 star rooms. The problem is will Toronto will be able to absorb these new rooms? What do you think?


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## LordMandeep (Apr 10, 2006)

if it keeps growing yes, but if not no..


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

There has been a chronic high end hotel shortage in this city for years, so it will absorb the new hotels. Be aware that the hotel section of each of those buildings is just a small part and the rest of the spaces are luxury condos. For example, ShangriLa is 65 stories, but only part of that is a hotel.


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## Chicagoago (Dec 2, 2005)

^ What's the deal with the ShangriLa? Chicago's getting one as well, but I hadn't heard of them before. Just curious.


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## thryve (Mar 5, 2005)

^^ I'm pretty sure they are Asian and they entered North America through Vancouver (naturally ).

I'd say Wikipedia-it. Now you've got me all curious myself


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## b13 (Jan 14, 2007)

The Toronto Shangri-la is beautiful and will impact the skyline alot


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## Sen (Nov 13, 2004)

Shangri-La is a hotel chain founded by a Malaysian Chinese, started in Singapore, and now based in Hong Kong.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

What are the 5 star hotels in Toronto now?


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

hkskyline said:


> What are the 5 star hotels in Toronto now?


?? I am surprised you don't know the hotels of Toronto, hk... you have a
residence here, do you not? 
I'd say currently the best hotels in TO are the SoHo, Le Germain, Cosmopolitan
and then probably the Four Seasons.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

The reason I ask is because it has been publicized in the local media many times that Toronto does not have a single international 5* hotel. Ritz was supposed to be the first one when the proposal floated many years ago for the site next to Scotia.


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

Who knows? The star system is so systematically abused nowadays and the standards vary wildly from country to country, and from city to city. Most new hotels nowadays have discovered the magic fact that they can annoint themselves with as many stars as they wish.. no one can stop them, and they can advertise themselves with as many as *SEVEN* stars (in a five star system). The system means nothing anymore, as virtually any hotel with a 24 hour a day kitchen/roomservice can call themselves 5 Star.
Bizarrely a year or so ago Cosmopolitan Hotel was voted the best hotel in North America by some magazine like a Conde Nast publication.


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## Sergei (May 20, 2004)

Taller said:


> Who knows? The star system is so systematically abused nowadays and the standards vary wildly from country to country, and from city to city. Most new hotels nowadays have discovered the magic fact that they can annoint themselves with as many stars as they wish.. no one can stop them, and they can advertise themselves with as many as *SEVEN* stars (in a five star system). The system means nothing anymore, as virtually any hotel with a 24 hour a day kitchen/roomservice can call themselves 5 Star.


Word! :nuts:


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

There are some commonalities among internationally-rated hotels, and a lot of it has to do with facilities, *plus* the consensus of a number of reputable rating authorities. I doubt there is any credibility in a self-proclaimed rating. However, there are some well-known international luxury chains, such as Mandarin Oriental, Ritz, Peninsula, and Shangri-La. I don't think any of them are in Toronto yet.

http://www.travelandleisure.com/tl500/2007/region/canada

Interestingly, Aerie Resort on Vancouver Island was the highest-ranked hotel in Canada last year according to Travel & Leisure. How they derived that and whether that can be used for comparison purposes or a 5-star ranking methodology is highly in doubt without knowing what it means first. A bunch of surveys put together can be quite meaningless without knowing the context.


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

The self-anointing with Stars is more common than you think, HK. Check out a certain luxury hotel in Dubai and you will find it crowned itself with a 7 star rating, just because it dawned upon them they could do it. Any luxury hotel going up nowadays has already anointed themselves a five star even though the property has not even been built yet, let alone rated. In my opinion a hotel is not a true 5 star hotel unless it has a butler available 24 hours per day for every floor of the hotel, and certainly a good kitchen available with room service round the clock. A butler for every floor can be easier in a boutique hotel than in a 65 storey hotel, thus boutique hotels can have a tighter control on their standards- ditto in a small hotel the staff can refer to every guest by their name.. not possible in a 65 storey hotel. A five star hotel must have quality cars with chauffeurs available to squire guests about the city for shopping trips if they so choose. A five star hotel will have someone always available to walk your French Poodle Fifi around the neighbourhood for you. Long gone are the days when a chocolate on your pillow, and a "turn down" would do the trick to get a four star rating. The larger the hotel, the more difficult it is to truly maintain genuine 5 star services .Yes there are commonalities in the star system, and there are definitely some hotels that are more luxurious (and expensive) than others, but those standards do vary wildly from country to country. There are also groups of quality hotels, like Preferred, that guarantee a certain level of service. But in general, the star system for hotels, in my opinion, is crumbling and being abused.


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## Nutterbug (Feb 3, 2005)

Taller said:


> ?? I am surprised you don't know the hotels of Toronto, hk... you have a
> residence here, do you not?
> I'd say currently the best hotels in TO are the SoHo, Le Germain, Cosmopolitan
> and then probably the Four Seasons.


What about the Royal York?


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

Nutterbug said:


> What about the Royal York?



The Royal York is ok, but no longer Toronto's top hotel; not by a long chalk.


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

Taller said:


> The self-anointing with Stars is more common than you think, HK. Check out a certain luxury hotel in Dubai and you will find it crowned itself with a 7 star rating, just because it dawned upon them they could do it. Any luxury hotel going up nowadays has already anointed themselves a five star even though the property has not even been built yet, let alone rated. In my opinion a hotel is not a true 5 star hotel unless it has a butler available 24 hours per day for every floor of the hotel, and certainly a good kitchen available with room service round the clock. A butler for every floor can be easier in a boutique hotel than in a 65 storey hotel, thus boutique hotels can have a tighter control on their standards- ditto in a small hotel the staff can refer to every guest by their name.. not possible in a 65 storey hotel. A five star hotel must have quality cars with chauffeurs available to squire guests about the city for shopping trips if they so choose. A five star hotel will have someone always available to walk your French Poodle Fifi around the neighbourhood for you. Long gone are the days when a chocolate on your pillow, and a "turn down" would do the trick to get a four star rating. The larger the hotel, the more difficult it is to truly maintain genuine 5 star services .Yes there are commonalities in the star system, and there are definitely some hotels that are more luxurious (and expensive) than others, but those standards do vary wildly from country to country. There are also groups of quality hotels, like Preferred, that guarantee a certain level of service. But in general, the star system for hotels, in my opinion, is crumbling and being abused.


Yeah, like that "certain luxury hotel in Dubai" is your everyday Toronto Hotel. What about a butler not only for every floor, but even dedicated to your own suit, if you choose to. What about NO rooms but ONLY duplex suites? What about not just "quality cars with chauffeurs" but ROLLS ROYCEs?

If you think BAA is your usual Toronto (or Niagra Falls) 5 star Hotel, you're totally WRONG!


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

BTW I don't think 800 extra rooms would be to much, however it depends on what kind of business travellers Toronto atracts.


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## ToRoNto g-town (Nov 26, 2005)

^but ur comparing a city who runs on tourists and without them would completely fail.. with a city who mainly depends on business and its industries..tourists are just a little extra.


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

^^ That's why I specified "business travellers" becouse I know that Toronto is not a luxury tourism destination.


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## CrazyCanuck (Oct 9, 2004)

Toronto currently has no 5 star rated hotels.


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## Epi (Jul 21, 2006)

I have always thought that the star system was more related to facilities. For instance, if you didn't have a pool you could never go above 1 star. But if you had a pool AND a gym AND a restaurant you could be 4 star or something.

Regardless of the classification, I think there is no doubt that these new hotels in Toronto will be beyond the level that we know today (and that includes the current 4 Seasons, Royal York and Westin Harbour Castle). I think it's great for Toronto to finally have this.

I wonder if the locals would use it too. For instance, in Hong Kong or Tokyo, it's quite normal and quite fashionable to have a meal or a drink or high tea at a classy hotel. In many big cities as well, locals may stay at a hotel for a night or during the day to use the spa and other facilities and just to be 'pampered' for a night. I wonder if people in Toronto, with our 'please wear jeans to a fancy $40/plate restaurant' culture would be open to something like that.


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## Nutterbug (Feb 3, 2005)

For a place to sleep, I wouldn't spend any more than $100 if I could help it.

If you need all these additional amenities, you're probably spending too much time that should be spent going out in the town in the hotel.


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

^^ Here is all about that, becouse of the restrictions in alcohol licencing. A facility can't get one if it is not associated with a Hotel, so all the fancy restaurant and all the bars, pubs, clubs and discos are within Hotel premisses. Well this restricts what is called the street life (along with the hot weather) but we who live here don't bother as much as some visitors or a few forum members in here.


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

Nutterbug said:


> For a place to sleep, I wouldn't spend any more than $100 if I could help it.
> 
> If you need all these additional amenities, you're probably spending too much time that should be spent going out in the town in the hotel.


Is like with cars. While a Civic might be more then enough for you, somebody else settles for a Ferrari or a Bentley.


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## KGB (Sep 12, 2002)

Toronto's best hotel in terms of service and discretion is probably the Windsor Arms. Great history going back to the 20's with a who's who list of guests (Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton kept a year-round suite), and their much storied restaurants (Three Small Rooms and the Courtyard Cafe). The staff to guest ratio is like 6:1. It's also got a great Yorkville location.

Another small boutique luxury hotel that would appeal to me long before the big chains would, is the soon-to-be opened Hazelton.

But if I were truly rich and cost was no barrier, I would simply stay in one of the not-ever-advertized mansions in Rosedale or something that come fully staffed, and offer total privacy and are completely anonymous.





KGB


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## Epi (Jul 21, 2006)

KGB said:


> Toronto's best hotel in terms of service and discretion is probably the Windsor Arms. Great history going back to the 20's with a who's who list of guests (Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton kept a year-round suite), and their much storied restaurants (Three Small Rooms and the Courtyard Cafe). The staff to guest ratio is like 6:1. It's also got a great Yorkville location.


Aye, high tea at the Windsor Arms is one of the most unknown classy things to do in Toronto.


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

AltinD said:


> Yeah, like that "certain luxury hotel in Dubai" is your everyday Toronto Hotel. What about a butler not only for every floor, but even dedicated to your own suit, if you choose to. What about NO rooms but ONLY duplex suites? What about not just "quality cars with chauffeurs" but ROLLS ROYCEs?
> 
> If you think BAA is your usual Toronto (or Niagra Falls) 5 star Hotel, you're totally WRONG!


I'm not saying anything against the hotel, AltinD... it is most definitely one of the best in the world, but it is five star hotel and at the top of the other five star hotels. The rating system *has only five stars*. This hotel awarded itself 7 stars, which to me seems a bit silly, and makes a mockery of the five star system. So I am not dissing the hotel, just what they did by labelling themselves 7 star. It is only a matter of time before another luxury hotel opens and calls itself 8, or 9 stars. AltinD, if you happen to know someone who has "pull" at this hotel and can get me a free suite for a weekend, I will be more than happy to come over and sample their services! 



Epi said:


> Aye, high tea at the Windsor Arms is one of the most unknown classy things to do in Toronto.


I'm with you on that one, Epi. The tea is superb, and definitely the best in town. I wish the old Windsor Arms had never closed and that the renovation had not occured. The old hotel was so glamorous and had the patina of an old time genteel establishment. KGB is right.. anyone who was anyone stayed at the WA if they were in town.


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## Nutterbug (Feb 3, 2005)

AltinD said:


> Is like with cars. While a Civic might be more then enough for you, somebody else settles for a Ferrari or a Bentley.


I suppose these luxury hotels are also targeted at business travellers, who may have little interest in going out on the town and just want to crash and be comforted in one place, and can charge their expenses to the company.


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

In general I don't like hotels, and when I travel I tend to stay in guesthouses. To me they are much more humane and less sterile. But if I were a billionaire, I would sample a few of the extreme high end hotels!
As it is I won't stay in a regular run of the mill Holiday Inn type place unless I absolutely have to.


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## KGB (Sep 12, 2002)

Let's face it....most of us don't give a rat's ass how luxurious or non-luxurious these new "starry" hotels are....I doubt any of us are going to use them...we just like how they are going to fill out the skyline and get rid of parking lots.






> I wish the old Windsor Arms had never closed and that the renovation had not occured.



Well hey...at least it's still around. They did a very good job with the new one. So good, most people think the building was "renovated", when in fact the old building was totally demolished and a new basically identical replica built in its place. Don't know what to say about the condo tower above it...let's just call it excentric to be kind....isn't that what you do when things are that expensive? At least they didn't try and actually make it look like it wqas part of the hotel.





KGB


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

The reno was very good... I had an exceptionally close look at details whilst cramming down crustless sandwiches and little bickies and gulping Lapsang Souchong or some such stuff. But the old hotel, even though it was getting a bit worn looking... just had a little extra 'something'. There is a patina to the wood that can only come from age, I guess...


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## KGB (Sep 12, 2002)

Oh, I'm sure the interiors are obvious. I was thinking of the facade....most people think it's the actual original structure. I think they kept some stained glass windows and the stone entrance portico and re-used them though.





KGB


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## Rapid (May 31, 2004)

Taller said:


> ?? I am surprised you don't know the hotels of Toronto, hk... you have a
> residence here, do you not?
> I'd say currently the best hotels in TO are the SoHo, Le Germain, Cosmopolitan
> and then probably the Four Seasons.


With currently one of the most expesnive rooms in Toronto (if not, the most expensive), where does Intercontinental fit in?

According to hotels.ca, the Park Hyatt is the only 4 and a half star hotel, and then followed by the four star hotels, 1 King W, Cosmopolitan, Sheraton..


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

^^^ The Intercontinental has one of the most expensive rooms in Toronto? That surprises me. I would have ranked it below the Four Seasons and probably the Park Hyatt, and definitely below the Four Seasons and even the Metropolitan Hotel for food quality. Did hotels.ca not even mention the Four Seasons, or the SoHo, or the Windsor Arms? That is not a very complete listing.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

I watched a news story during TIFF that mentioned that the SoHo Hotel had the cities most expensive room. I'm not sure how credible it was, but the 2 floor full apartment went for $2500+ a night. 

Of the 4 high end hotels, I am eagerly anticipating the Shangri-La the most. It will have possibly the biggest effect on the skyline due to it's location and height. Slightly west of the CBD cluster, and having a great sight line right down University Avenue to Queen's Park will look fierce.

The Trump isn't bad, but 3 towers almost identical in height right next to each other visually irritates me. The Four Seasons isn't bad either, but shouldn't this company's flagship hotel be in Toronto since it is based here? Their other proposals around the world are better in many respects.

Ritz, I love it, but haven't gotten excited over it. I don't know why. I suppose my attention has been divided amongst so many projects.


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## zachus22 (Dec 4, 2006)

LordMandeep said:


> if it keeps growing yes, but if not no..


Well that's kind of a given, is it not...?

My mom's friend works as a secretary at the Royal York and she says that during any somewhat significant event, all the hotels in the city proper are completely booked up. The new hotels will give people leweigh during concerts and what not, and scaffold the skylines.

And to answer the question...Yeah, with all the immigration from other countries and even from other parts of Canada, I don't think there's any reason Toronto won't be able to support a few five-star hotels. 

If it means kicking out a Holiday Inn, whatever.

GO RAPS


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

Toronto, like any city, has nice hotels that would be 4 star. Here is an old beauty I photographed last weekend, The Royal York built in the 1920's:


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

I think there's room for more. There's also Pan-Pacific that wants to build in Toronto.


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

This was the first luxury hotel built in Toronto... The King Edward, which was completed in 1903. 





































The "King Eddy", as it is affectionately called, still puts on a grand show:


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