# Berlin is a major center in European politics, culture, media, and science



## Blackpool88 (Nov 15, 2007)

Berlin is my favourite European city. Culturally rich, maybe not the european leader but certainly up there but for me the Nightlife is like nothing I have ever experienced on this planet. Tresor, Watergate etc are the most insane clubs I have ever been to and the bar scene is so cool, you can sit there all night drinking without having to worry about getting thrown out at 12 like in england. I love the place.


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

Nightlife is certainly the best in Europe. But finding a decent job is much easier in other cities. Berlin is like a magnet for people who prefer an alternative lifestyle.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

Alphaville said:


> I found Berlin to be one of the most captivating, and cultured cities I visited in Europe. It breaks new ground. It's not a Rome, or a Paris-- its history is recent and far too complicated for those European cliches.


How exactly are London, Paris and Rome cliched?

Maybe posing for a photo by the Eiffel Tower or Tower Bridge is a cliche but you cannot just dismiss these massive and vibrant metropolises as a cliche because of this. Look beyond this touristic facade and they are anything but cliches.

Anyway, I haven't been to Berlin but it has a reputation as a cool city especially for youth culture, interesting history, nightlife etc. I would love to go some day and i'm sure I will.


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## edubejar (Mar 16, 2003)

goschio said:


> Nightlife is certainly the best in Europe. But finding a decent job is much easier in other cities. Berlin is like a magnet for people who prefer an alternative lifestyle.


Ya, Berlin's nightlife is awesome. But I hear (and have experienced) London's and Madrid's amazing nightlifes, too. And I hear Moscow is making huge leaps.


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## Federicoft (Sep 26, 2005)

Alphaville said:


> From a non-European's perspective, I found Berlin to be one of the most captivating, and cultured cities I visited in Europe. It breaks new ground. It's not a Rome, or a Paris-- its history is recent and far too complicated for those European cliches. Are you considering grand old buildings and ancient cathedrals as a measure of culture? If yes, then Berlin is not cultured.


Cliches are in the eye of the beholder.

Just shallow people could dismiss cities like the ones you metioned as 'cliches'. Probably cliches are enough to feed their sensitivity, while all the others can enjoy everything that cities of 5-10-15 millions people, with 3 thousands years of history can offer.

Besides, yes. Berlin is a major center in European politics, culture, media and science.


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

Blackpool88 said:


> and the bar scene is so cool, you can sit there all night drinking without having to worry about getting thrown out at 12 like in england. I love the place.


Actually there are just a few big cities in Germany with a kind of curfew. 
Berlin would be even cooler IMO if the nightlife spots are all concentrated in one central district (like in Hamburg  )


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

Berlin just got the highest score from Monocle magazine for culture. Its basically a combination of museum heritage, galleries, and the fact the city is now the worlds art capital (taking over from London), drawing people from all over the world with cheap and ample studio space, an affordable lifestyle, huge alternative culture and a cutting edge scene. One of the best things that ever happened to Berlin is that it went bankrupt.


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## PedroGabriel (Feb 5, 2007)

I think the major contribution of Berlin are Berliners.


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## Golden Age (Dec 26, 2006)

goschio said:


> But finding a decent job is much easier in other cities.


This is THE major drawback for Berlin, finding a "normal" job here is, by and large, a matter of connections and luck, unless you're a government employee. For this reason, Berlin lacks the typical "Mittelstand" or upper middle class that one might find in other German cities. Why is that so important one might ask? Well, for one part these people privately finance huge portions of the cultural and public life of their cities.

Don't get me wrong, Berlin's finances were looking a lot worse 2-3 years ago, things are improving, but it really needs to find an infrastructure outside of government, subculture and art to have a truly golden future.


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## lear1 (May 2, 2008)

Referring to the Thread line, you have to be either Journalist, Politician, Artist or Scientist to work in this city. But even without money you can survive in Berlin. The state is covering everything, it´s a modern paradise, almost utopia.

:dance:


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

lear1 said:


> Referring to the Thread line, you have to be either Journalist, Politician, Artist or Scientist to work in this city. But even without money you can survive in Berlin. *The state is covering everything, it´s a modern paradise, almost utopia*.
> 
> :dance:


You mean that the Bavarians and Hamburgers are covering everything, the state doesn't have money of its own, only the money it takes from other people in other regions.


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## lear1 (May 2, 2008)

I meant the German state in general and the Bundesland Berlin specifically.


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## Harkeb (Oct 12, 2004)

Berlin is very underrated. How proud are Germans of their city? They should really promote the city a lot more aggressively.


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

Harkeb said:


> Berlin is very underrated. How proud are Germans of their city? They should really promote the city a lot more aggressively.


Most Germans? Not very is the answer. Unfortunately Germany seems to be afflicted with a lack of pride in their country in general and whilst many people appear to give passing homage to certain aspects of their country, they're overwhelmingly negative - very much like the Brits. You'll not hear an average Brit talk up their town/city/country unless someone from outside their town/city/country attacks it. It's a shame.


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## schmidt (Dec 5, 2002)

I just love it here and I wish I could spend my whole life here too. 

Well yeah, it's definitely a world culture capital. Just look, TODAY we're having this long cultural night, in which, from 5pm until 1am you can go and see pretty much everything about culture. Amazing!!!


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## lear1 (May 2, 2008)

Berlin is a major center in European politics, culture, media, and science
... says Wikipedia !

Is that true ? & What else is significant when it comes to identify Berlin ?


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

Svartmetall said:


> Most Germans? Not very is the answer. Unfortunately Germany seems to be afflicted with a lack of pride in their country in general and whilst many people appear to give passing homage to certain aspects of their country, they're overwhelmingly negative - very much like the Brits. You'll not hear an average Brit talk up their town/city/country unless someone from outside their town/city/country attacks it. It's a shame.


Brits are much more nationalist than germans from what I have seen. It's just that you lots don't show it so much in the open.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

eklips said:


> Brits are much more nationalist than germans from what I have seen. It's just that you lots don't show it so much in the open.


I think that we can be very self-critical amongst ourselves but have a tendency to descend into rabid nationalism if those same criticisms are made by a foreigner. :laugh:


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

From personnal experiences it seems the brits that I have seen seem very modest about their nation on the outside, but once you get to know them a bit you realize that they are absolutely and utterly convinced of the superiority of their nation to a point that it goes without saying :laugh:.

But maybe the french are like that as well to foreigners, who knows.


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## edubejar (Mar 16, 2003)

I just saw some documentaries on Youtube about Berlin and the devastation that was left after WWII. I did not realize to what degree Berlin (atleast the central districts) were bombarded and left in shambles. It's hard to believe that Mitte and other central parts of the city I visited last year were once war-torn. It should make sense seeing how much of Berlin is recent architecture but it is still hard to believe. Berlin has made IMO an amazing comeback, even if Berlin is not what it may have been without WWII and the Wall/GDR. I find the city and its history so interesting!


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## edubejar (Mar 16, 2003)

I just saw some documentaries on Youtube about Berlin and the devastation that was left after WWII. I did not realize to what degree Berlin (atleast the central districts) were bombarded and left in shambles. It's hard to believe that Mitte and other central parts of the city I visited last year were once war-torn. It should make sense seeing how much of Berlin is recent architecture but it is still hard to believe. Berlin has made IMO an amazing comeback, even if Berlin is not what it may have been without WWII and the Wall/GDR. I find the city and its history so interesting!


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## De Snor (Jul 28, 2002)

Harkeb said:


> Berlin is very underrated. How proud are Germans of their city? They should really promote the city a lot more aggressively.


I believe Berlin is only loved by the people who live there, outside Berlin the city isn't that popular imo.
Why I don't know I guess Germans can give a good answer here


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## MPOWER (Jun 12, 2007)

Berlin was the economic, cultural center of Germany. Nowadays Berlin lacks behind Munich and Hamburg in terms of economic. The biggest german companies were founded in Berlin so like Siemens, Deutsche Bank, Allianz, Schering. And dont forget that the biggest stock exchange of Germany was located in Berlin before the war. The war changed all and after the reunifacation some major companies wanted to change there hq back to Berlin, but it didnt happen.
After the war most berlin companies changed there hq to Bavaria, the state i am living. Munich became the new center for the German Hightech industry.
Today Berlin is poor and receives over 3 billion euro per year from the other states i think thats the reason.

Berlin is a major center of research. Berlin R&D spendings are above 4% of the GDP.


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

Stef VDD said:


> I believe Berlin is only loved by the people who live there, outside Berlin the city isn't that popular imo.
> Why I don't know I guess Germans can give a good answer here


You mean in Germany because outside Germany it is not the case.
Berlin is one of most popular city of Germany.


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## lear1 (May 2, 2008)

Stef VDD said:


> I believe Berlin is only loved by the people who live there, outside Berlin the city isn't that popular imo.
> Why I don't know I guess Germans can give a good answer here


This is a widespread opinion in Germany. It is truly strange. The whole planet knows about the charismatic attractiveness Berlin is able to radiate. Only the Germans outside Berlin don´t know about it. The "NEW BERLIN" has almost no presence in the German media, neither in German movies, TV-programmes, written fiction, newspapers or weekly magazines. My conclusion is, that Berlin only works in a global context with a globally accepted reputation.


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## wonwiin (Jan 12, 2008)

lear1 said:


> This is a widespread opinion in Germany. It is truly strange. The whole planet knows about the charismatic attractiveness Berlin is able to radiate. Only the Germans outside Berlin don´t know about it. The "NEW BERLIN" has almost no presence in the German media, neither in German movies, TV-programmes, written fiction, newspapers or weekly magazines. My conclusion is, that Berlin only works in a global context with a globally accepted reputation.


I read about the "NEW BERLIN" in german media... but I think the problem is that Berlin is only attractive for artists and tourists. With 20% unemployment somebody who has to work for his life goes to the other centers of Germany like Hamburg, Stuttgart, Cologne, Munich. And they are really not bad culturally. It is just the character of Germany as a federal state with several centers making Berlin not so attractive like Madrid in Spain, Dublin in Ireland, Paris or London. There are alternatives in Germany.


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## lear1 (May 2, 2008)

It´s 14% unemployment in Berlin.
The major reason why nobody in Germany knows about Berlin is, that some of the significant German speaking media is headquartered in Frankfurt, Munich, Hamburg or Cologne. I´m always headshakingly surprised how many years and decades these media outlets are behind when it comes to present the current situation in Berlin.


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## lokinyc (Sep 17, 2002)

I lived in Berlin in the 80s. It was a vastly different city than it is now but has always remained one of my favorite cities. It is isn't beautiful in a way that Paris is but it's energy and youthfulness are unmatched.


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

Stef VDD said:


> I believe Berlin is only loved by the people who live there, outside Berlin the city isn't that popular imo.
> Why I don't know I guess Germans can give a good answer here


I don't know. Maybe one reason may be because Berlin gets "all" the attention in the world, while being largely funded by the richer west-german states who (apart of Frankfurt due to its function as finance hub) get close to no international media attention.
In terms of tourist arrivals it goes even so far, that international tourists arrive in other cities (i.e. Frankfurt by plane, Hamburg by Cruise ship) just to directly take a bus or train to Berlin without having even made a city-tour in their arrival-city.


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

^^ Berlin is the most visited city in Germany.


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## Mekky II (Oct 29, 2003)

Minato ku said:


> ^^ Berlin is the most visited city in Germany.


With such a tiny and unwelcoming airport, it seems something interessant ! or it's because it's the railway hub of Europe ?


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## lear1 (May 2, 2008)

Berlin is even the third most visited tourism destination in Europe.

A new airport is scheduled to be completed in 2011/12. It will replace the 3 current old airports and it´s design will be comparable to the Munich and Amsterdam airports. The passenger numbers of the new airport are likely to expand very rapidly in the following years, due to it´s new capacities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin-Brandenburg_International_Airport


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## Harkeb (Oct 12, 2004)

perhaps Berlin should get a new airport, which should become Germany's main air hub, instead of the smaller Frankfurt city. And can new highrise projects in Franfurt, to be built in Berlin. This will redirect business and tourism to Berlin.


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

Harkeb said:


> perhaps Berlin should get a new airport, which should become Germany's main air hub, instead of the smaller Frankfurt city. And can new highrise projects in Franfurt, to be built in Berlin. This will redirect business and tourism to Berlin.


#1. Berlin Brandenburg International is currently being built where Schönefeld is at the moment and will be (hopefully) completed in 2011. Templehof and Tegel will be closed. The airport will have a regional rail station, much like FFM and will be a stopping point for ICE, IC, RB and S-bahn trains. There is also an option to extend the U-bahn line U7 to the airport but that is very unlikely to happen in the near future unless there is a huge increase in patronage due to the city's financial problems.

#2. Why would Berlin want high rises? It's a city with a fantastic load of mid-rises and I, personally, prefer a sea of midrise to some highrise surrounded by ugly suburban sprawl as evidenced in too many cities. One of the charms of European cities in my mind is the lack of a definite central "core" zone surrounded by bland heaving masses of houses so I don't think that should change. High rise doesn't necessarily signify growth and economic prosperity. 

Frankfurt for all its good points has the derogatory name of Mainhatten for a reason and I think that sometimes the highrise actually takes away from the city rather than adds to it. But that's just a personal preference and in a site of skyscraper addicts I bet not many will agree with me. 

Anyway, tourism is already higher in Berlin than Frankfurt simply because Frankfurt is mainly a business centre. Berlin is one of the cultural highlights in a trip to Germany.


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

Harkeb said:


> perhaps Berlin should get a new airport, which should become Germany's main air hub, instead of the smaller Frankfurt city. And can new highrise projects in Franfurt, to be built in Berlin. This will redirect business and tourism to Berlin.


Keep dreaming. The Rhein Main Area (extended Frankfurt metro) is just as large as Berlin with the difference that Frankfurters are much wealthier. Frankfurt metro is a financial and industrial hot spot in Germany while Berlin is a tourist city. 

The few transatlantic flights from Berlin to USA were given up because there was no demand from business travelers. 

And I am not sure if you are aware of the fact that skyscraper do not attract business. They are built if business demand is already high. Thats why Berlin fails to get any highrise project. There is just no demand for it.


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

lear1 said:


> Referring to the Thread line, you have to be either Journalist, Politician, Artist or Scientist to work in this city. But even without money you can survive in Berlin. The state is covering everything, it´s a modern paradise, almost utopia.
> 
> :dance:


And people wonder why the rest of Germany dislikes Berlin. hno:

Are you Ludi?


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

Frankfurt is not the industrial center of Germany.
The industrial center is the Rhein Ruhr area.



Mekky II said:


> With such a tiny and unwelcoming airport, it seems something interessant ! or it's because it's the railway hub of Europe ?


Berlin is not even a big European railway hubs.
Having three little airport and being a medium rialway hub is enouth for 18 million tourists.


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

Minato ku said:


> Frankfurt is not the industrial center of Germany.
> The industrial center is the Rhein Ruhr area.


 Didn't say its the largest one.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

Stef VDD said:


> I believe Berlin is only loved by the people who live there, outside Berlin the city isn't that popular imo.
> Why I don't know I guess Germans can give a good answer here


Berlin seems to be very popular with Frankfurters for some reason. Maybe because Frankfurt is not a particularly interesting or attractive city, and Berlin does seem to possess much that Frankfurt lacks.

But I have found that many Germans outside of Frankfurt don't like the city. I put a lot of this down to change. Berlin is a fast changing city, and Germans at their best are very wary of change, and typically hate it.

Me? I love Berlin. My favourite German city easily.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

Harkeb said:


> perhaps Berlin should get a new airport, which should become Germany's main air hub, instead of the smaller Frankfurt city. And can new highrise projects in Franfurt, to be built in Berlin. This will redirect business and tourism to Berlin.


Frankfurt has a smaller city proper population, but the metro area is larger. An airport serves a metropolitan area far more than just a council area.

Frankfurt, also being the major business center in Germany, deserves the major airport.


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## lear1 (May 2, 2008)

Quote from USA Today:

Berlin is Europe's butterfly—albeit a funky one—having metamorphosed from the epicenter of Hitler's Third Reich to the symbol of the Iron Curtain to finally, in the last 20 years, a mecca for artists, hipsters, and cultural alchemists. It's sort like Greenwich Village 20 years ago mixed with some of Tokyo's modernism, and punctuated by reminders of the past, both the darker days and the more splendid imperial era.

"The city is dynamic—it's always changing and there is always something new to discover," says Heather Ellis, a Pennsylvania native who now lives in Berlin. "Berlin is literally alive with history in a way that no other city in Europe is. It's young because of its students, full of culture because of its artists, and a bit unpolished because of its past, which makes it seem like the visitor has stumbled onto something truly special. It is also much cheaper than any other major Western European city."

USA Today - Five Europe destinations that won't kill your budget


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## friedemann (Jun 29, 2006)

> Frankfurt is not the industrial center of Germany.
> The industrial center is the Rhein Ruhr area.


The Rhein-Ruhr area was the industrial center some decades ago. Now the economic powerhouses are Frankfurt, Munich and Stuttgart. Düsseldorf is the only Rhein-Ruhr city which can compete with the new centers.


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## friedemann (Jun 29, 2006)

edit


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## edubejar (Mar 16, 2003)

Ya, Berlin really amazed me like I did not expect. But I get the impression that Berlin (which is both a city and its own state!) is still quite empty. It's easily one of Europe's largest urban areas in area yet I get the huge impression that so many buildings are empty. I'm I wrong or does Berlin's urban area have the capacity to hold many more people with it's current housing stock? I was surprised how little traffic and people there are in many neighborhoods. Maybe Berlin's many wide roads and multiple centers accentuate this but I must say that other major cities can be argued to have multiple centers, too, and they still seem more hustle and bustle. I also got the impression that Berlin's U-Bahn and S-Bahn had the capability of handling a lot more people. Both together form a very big system. I'm amazed by Berlin's rapid transit infrastructure. 

By the sounds of some people here, it doesn't seem like Berlin will grow significantly in population in my lifetime due to the lack of international/major national companies established in Berlin. It doesn't sound like Frankfurt and Munich will cede those positions to Berlin, and why should they?


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## lear1 (May 2, 2008)

*Lear Town*

Panorama taken from Warschauer Brücke










Bai Ling @ the Berlin Film Festival .... poor but sexy !


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## Mekky II (Oct 29, 2003)

Minato ku said:


> Berlin is not even a big European railway hubs.


Hm ? Germans did built the largest railway station of Europe in Berlin by pleasure ? Germans manage money better that we do in France, if they did built, they needed it ! (we never saw a german city wasting money like Paris or London ! )it is the railway hub of Europe... even if not today, all new high-speed lines start from Berlin (to Prague, Moscow, Warsaw...)...


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

Mekky II said:


> Hm ? Germans did built the largest railway station of Europe in Berlin by pleasure ? Germans manage money better that we do in France, if they did built, they needed it ! (we never saw a german city wasting money like Paris or London ! )it is the railway hub of Europe... even if not today, all new high-speed lines start from Berlin (to Prague, Moscow, Warsaw...)...


Berlin, is not the largest train station in germany.


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

Mekky II said:


> Hm ? Germans did built the largest railway station of Europe in Berlin by pleasure ? Germans manage money better that we do in France, if they did built, they needed it ! (we never saw a german city wasting money like Paris or London ! )it is the railway hub of Europe... even if not today, all new high-speed lines start from Berlin (to Prague, Moscow, Warsaw...)...


The only claim the new Hbf in Berlin has is that it is the largest cross station (with lines going both north/south and east/west) in the world. Other than that, it's smaller than most other train terminals.

The largest terminal in Germany is very clearly FFM Hbf as it handles the largest amount of long distance travel in Germany and has the most bundled ICE routes stop there.


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## Mekky II (Oct 29, 2003)

It looks enough busy in my eyes... also like i said, with high-speed lines going to east in the future, Berlin will be even more "central"...


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

Right now its not central at all. Berlin main station is moslty a local station and not even remotely comparable with Frankfurt.


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

goschio said:


> Right now its not central at all. Berlin main station is moslty a local station and not even remotely comparable with Frankfurt.


PAX wise it's not doing too badly though. Currently it's handling 109.5 million passengers a year (compared to 127.75 for Frankfurt and 164.25 million for Hamburg). 

Train wise it handles 225 long distance trains (FFM 342) and 325 regional trains (FFM 290).


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

^^ In most big cities, the majority of the railway traffic is local.


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## wonwiin (Jan 12, 2008)

Isn't Leibzig the biggest station in Europe in size?


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## Mekky II (Oct 29, 2003)

Minato ku said:


> ^^ In most big cities, the majority of the railway traffic is local.


It's less the case for Berlin compared to Frankfürt... Berlin has 3.4 millions people and have one of most efficient public transportation system in Europe (metro, bus, tramway)... Frankfürt has 670.000 inhabitants... considering how large is the metropolitan area of this city to be able to go around 5 to 6 millions, for sure local traffic must be huge ! ... Only Hamburg here looks impressive if numbers of passengers are true, must be linked to the "corridor" going from scandinavia to italy...


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

Mekky II said:


> It's less the case for Berlin compared to Frankfürt... Berlin has 3.4 millions people and have one of most efficient public transportation system in Europe (metro, bus, tramway)... Frankfürt has 670.000 inhabitants... considering how large is the metropolitan area of this city to be able to go around 5 to 6 millions, for sure local traffic must be huge ! ... Only Hamburg here looks impressive if numbers of passengers are true, must be linked to the "corridor" going from scandinavia to italy...


The numbers for Hamburg are true. All S-bahn trains in Hamburg stop at the Hbf and all U-bahn lines stop at Hbf so of course there will be a great deal of passenger traffic at Hamburg Hbf.

Berlin has a number of main stations which is why passenger numbers aren't as high for the Hbf compared to FFM and Hamburg. The station is also in the middle of nowhere at the moment with only a few places of interest around it compared to Alexanderplatz, Zoo and others.

Compared to British train station passenger numbers, all of those cities named have much busier main stations than all British stations except for a few in London.

And yes, Wonwiin, Lepzig is the largest station in floor area in Europe, however, it is nowhere near the busiest in Germany.


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

Mekky II said:


> It's less the case for Berlin compared to Frankfürt... Berlin has 3.4 millions people and have one of most efficient public transportation system in Europe (metro, bus, tramway)... Frankfürt has 670.000 inhabitants... considering how large is the metropolitan area of this city to be able to go around 5 to 6 millions, for sure local traffic must be huge ! ... Only Hamburg here looks impressive if numbers of passengers are true, must be linked to the "corridor" going from scandinavia to italy...


No, it's mostly the regional train traffic in Hamburg, with regional trains coming hourly from cities as far as Bremen, Hannover, Rostock or Padborg (Denmark). And probably the S-Bahn traffic is also counted in (all S-Bahn lines in Hamburg go through the central station. Maybe even the U-Bahn lines, which are operated by another company but also pass all the central station are counted in.

Regarding the long distance traffic corridors: Hamburg is also the starting point of the corridor to Prague/Budapest.


Leipzig and Frankfurt are the biggest railway stations. Which one is exactly bigger, I don't know.


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## ecotecture (Jun 22, 2008)

Alphaville said:


> If you conisder the *vast amount of museums, art galleries*, diverse nightlife, recent history, street culture.. I consider Berlin to go against the European steriotype and carve its own culture. It's a fresh face post-1989 Berlin is a breath of fresh air for Europe.


Exactly.


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## ecotecture (Jun 22, 2008)

Jonesy55 said:


> You mean that the Bavarians and Hamburgers are covering everything, the state doesn't have money of its own, only the money it takes from other people in other regions.


Just like Bavaria.

I think "Lower Saxony" is the one of the few districts in Germany that is always paying for other districts. Bavaria used to be poor aswell.

It's a matter of course that Germany as country pays for its new/old capital IMO. Especially after that special history.


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## ecotecture (Jun 22, 2008)

Harkeb said:


> Berlin is very underrated. How proud are Germans of their city? They should really promote the city a lot more aggressively.


This post is the answer ...



Mackem said:


> Got to agree there as in Britain London dominates politics etc. to the detrement of the other regions and cities. Through its' recent history Berlin lost its' financial business and political influence to other cities such as Frankfurt and Munich. Now that Berlin is once again re-unified it has much catching up to do, but has left a more balanced country as a result.
> 
> As for the science aspect, I presume the reference is to the Adlershof science park and other medical research in the city area. Berlin may well be "Poor but sexy" but I look forward to visiting this fascinating city.


Munich used to be the touristic attraction for years. But other cities and regions aswell.

Now Berlin becomes more and more interesting. There is a lot of jealousy now.

But that jealousy comes mostly from the other big german cities. People from smaller cities love Berlin, if their first journey to Berlin. They are impressed by how "calm" & green Berlin is.


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

Not another Ludi multi account. hno:


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## lindow (Apr 1, 2008)

Germany is the European greatest country. London stands indiscriminate eyes. But I pat it, and Berlin will not attract attention.
rocket, plane, submarine, physics, chemistry, etc, etc, etc. These developed in Germany. The British person will be strong in self-assertion.


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## djm19 (Jan 3, 2005)

I LOVE Berlin! I lived there for awhile and miss it terribly. I miss my apartment, I miss the trains, I miss the people, and even the bitter winter cold.


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## Skyline_FFM (May 25, 2008)

Yes and no. Berlin has more than 140 museums with first class ones like Pergamon Museum, the cuisine is represented by more than 170 nationalities. 
It is a centre of arts and culture. Some events get all the most known celebreties from all over the world and is a hotspot in culture producing. It maybe behind London, but that is due to the stand berlin has within Germany. We are more decentralized, so Berlin has to share the title as Media Centre with Cologne, Munich and Hamburg. 
As a financial hub, it concurs with Frankfurt (actually Frankfurt is almost out of concurrence as finiancial hub inside Germany), Munich and Düsseldorf.
As a political centre you have to see, it is the capital of Europe's biggest economy and second biggest nation in Europe. It has diplometic ties with every country in the world. But still, most Transatlantic flights still have to go via Frankfurt.
London is more important because it has no concurrence inside it's own country, making it easier to concur internationally also! And it has been for a very long time the navel of the Commonwealth, and still today has a central status within the Commonwealth!
But one cannot deny the high level of culutre and arts of Berlin. The nightlife is one of the best in the whole world!


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## De Snor (Jul 28, 2002)

Does someone has a list of the busiest railway stations in Germany ?
I would like to compare the German cities with other major European cities.




Minato ku said:


> Berlin is not even a big European railway hubs.


I know it cannot be compared with London or Paris but it is a rather big hub in my opinion.


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## Skyline_FFM (May 25, 2008)

Stef VDD said:


> Does someone has a list of the busiest railway stations in Germany ?
> I would like to compare the German cities with other major European cities.
> 
> 
> ...


The busiest is Frankfurt with about 350,000 passengers per day. But I will look up statistics for you,...


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## Skyline_FFM (May 25, 2008)

Here is an article:
http://www.focus.de/politik/deutschland/focus-test-brennpunkt-bahnhof_aid_149286.html

As I said: Frankfurt 350k
Berlin Zoo 103k
Düsseldorf 140k
Essen 100k
Hamburg 139k
Cologne 150k
Munich 300k
Nürnberg 110k
Stuttgart 330k
Leipzig 300k
So far, ....

Here actualized information:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahnhof


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## De Snor (Jul 28, 2002)

^^ thank you


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## Skyline_FFM (May 25, 2008)

Ur welcome,...


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## Ni3lS (Jun 29, 2007)

I think.. You don't have to trust wikipedia. It's probably written by a Berliner so..


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## Skyline_FFM (May 25, 2008)

Nielsiej13 said:


> I think.. You don't have to trust wikipedia. It's probably written by a Berliner so..


:blah:


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

Yes, you can't trust Berliners.


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## jefferson2 (May 31, 2008)

Skyline_FFM said:


> Yes and no. Berlin has more than 140 museums with first class ones like Pergamon Museum, the cuisine is represented by more than 170 nationalities.
> It is a centre of arts and culture. Some events get all the most known celebreties from all over the world and is a hotspot in culture producing. It maybe behind London, but that is due to the stand berlin has within Germany. We are more decentralized, so Berlin has to share the title as Media Centre with Cologne, Munich and Hamburg.
> As a financial hub, it concurs with Frankfurt (actually Frankfurt is almost out of concurrence as finiancial hub inside Germany), Munich and Düsseldorf.
> As a political centre you have to see, it is the capital of Europe's biggest economy and second biggest nation in Europe. It has diplometic ties with every country in the world. But still, most Transatlantic flights still have to go via Frankfurt.
> ...


I agree.. Germany is less centralized than France, UK, Russia.. probably less that than Italy or Spain. I think culturally Berlin is far and away the main city in Germany now though. I don't think Munich or Hamburg are as important culturally.


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

Skyline_FFM said:


> Here is an article:
> http://www.focus.de/politik/deutschland/focus-test-brennpunkt-bahnhof_aid_149286.html
> 
> As I said: Frankfurt 350k
> ...


The Focus-article is from 1994! The data from Wikipedia are more trustworthy, as they are actually data from the rail operator Deutsche Bahn who also operates the railway stations, even if they mix passengers and visitors in the numbers.

Anyway, there was a thread somewhere in the infrastructure and transportation sector of this forum listing the daily passenger/visitor throughput of railway stations in the whole world. Go find it.


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## Brazilian (Jun 20, 2008)

Edit


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## lindow (Apr 1, 2008)

20 Most livable cities

The Top 20 for 2008 according to Monocle:
1. Copenhagen/København
2. Munich
3. Tokyo 
4. Zürich
5. Helsinki // 6. Vienna // 7. Stockholm // 8. Vancouver // 9. Melbourne // 10. Paris // 11.Sydney // 12. Honolulu // 13. Madrid // 14. Berlin // 15. Barcelona // 16. Montréal // 17. Fukuoka // 18. Amsterdam // 19. Minneapolis // 20. Kyoto

THE INDEPENDENT Monday, 9 June 2008 
http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/...ld-842782.html


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

^^ Off-topic spam surely? What does this have to do with anything other than to show another pointless ranking which happens to show Berlin in the top 20?


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## Skyline_FFM (May 25, 2008)

Tokyo is 35th... http://citymayors.com/features/quality_survey.html

TOP 20:

Zurich
Vienna
Geneva
Vancouver
Auckland
Düsseldorf
Munich
Frankfurt
Bern
Sydney
Copenhagen
Wellington
Amsterdam 
Brusels
Toronto
Berlin
Melbourne
Luxembourg
Ottawa
Stockholm
Some scored equally...


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## Skyline_FFM (May 25, 2008)

lindow said:


> 20 Most livable cities
> 
> The Top 20 for 2008 according to Monocle:
> 1. Copenhagen/København
> ...


Oh yeah a private blog!!! :rofl:


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## Skyline_FFM (May 25, 2008)

lindow said:


> 20 Most livable cities
> 
> The Top 20 for 2008 according to Monocle:
> 1. Copenhagen/København
> ...


Oh yeah a private blog!!! :rofl:


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## Skyline_FFM (May 25, 2008)

And still from a private blog. I trust more in Mercer rankings:
http://citymayors.com/features/quality_survey.html

Part of the table:







:cheers:


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