# [NL] The Netherlands | road infrastructure • autosnelwegen



## mopc

Great pics!


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## Forza Raalte




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## Bikkel

A50/A12


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## CborG

*[NL] Dutch Highways & Autosnelwegen*

intro by ChrisZwolle.

Network map of the "rijkswegen" (national roads). Not all of these roads are actually motorways.










*widenings 2003 - *

"Spoedwet wegverbreding 2003" (urgent law of widening) projects:

A1 Diemen - Muiderberg rev1x1 -> rev1x2 11.4 km (reversible lanes)
A1 Bussum - Eemnes 2x2 -> 2x3 8.4 km (shoulder running)
A2 Holendrecht - Maarsen 2x4 -> 2x5 23.0km (widening)
A2 Urmond - Maasbracht 2 - 3 lanes 17.4 km (shoulder running)
A2 Urmond - Geleen 2x2 -> 2x3 (widening)
A6 Muiderberg - Almere-Stad-West 3 -> 4 lanes 11.2 km (shoulder running)
A7 Zaanstad - Purmerend 2 - 3 lanes 10.1 km (shoulder running)
A9 Velsen - Raasdorp 2x2 -> 2x3 8.1km (shoulder running)
A9 Raasdorp - Badhoevedorp 2 - 3 lanes 3.4km (shoulder running)
A9 Alkmaar - Uitgeest 2x2 > 2x3 11.7 km (shoulder running)
A9 Holendrecht - Diemen 2x2 -> 2x3 7.6 km (shoulder running)
A12 Zoetermeer - Zevenhuizen 2x2 -> 2x3 7.2 km (left shoulder running)
A12 Zevenhuizen - Gouda 2x2 -> 2x3 4.0km (left shoulder running)
A12 Woerden - Gouda 3 - 4 lanes 18.0 km (left shoulder running)
A12 Utrecht - Bunnik 2x3 -> 2x4 4.0 km (widening)
A12 Bunnik - Driebergen 2x2 -> 2x4 3.5 km (widening + left shoulder running)
A12 Driebergen - Maarsbergen 2x2 -> 2x3 2.1 km (left shoulder running)
A12 Veenendaal - Ede 2x2 -> 2x3 10.6 km (left shoulder running) (completed)
A28 Utrecht - Leusden-Zuid 2x2 -> 2x3 17.8km (widening)
A28 Leusden-Zuid - Hoevelaken 2 -> 3 lanes (left shoulder running)

*New motorway construction*

most of these projects are still pending, and have been for up to 50 years in some cases. If they will all be constructed within the next 10 - 20 years is doubtful.

A2 tunnel Maastricht 4x2
A4 Delft - Rotterdam 2+3
A4 Dinteloord - Halsteren 2x2
A5 Raasdorp - Amsterdam-West 2x2
A7 N7 Sneek expressway 2x2
A7 N7 Groningen expressway 2x4
A10 second Coen Tunnel (2x2 to 4+1+4)
A11 N11 Rijnlandroute south of Leiden
A13 A13-A16 connection north of Rotterdam
A15 Ressen - Zevenaar 2x2 (toll)
A18 N18 Varsseveld - Enschede
A31 N31 Harlingen upgrade 2x2
A35 N35 expressway Wierden - Zwolle
A50 N50 upgrade Hattemerbroek - Emmeloord
A74 Venlo (connection to German A61)

*Current major widening works*

not included are projects which contain shoulder running

A2 Amsterdam - Utrecht 2x3 to 2x5
A2 Everdingen - Deil 2x2 to 2x4
A2 Den Bosch 2x2 to 4x2
A2 Eindhoven 2x3 to 4x2
A2 tunnel Maastricht 2x2 at grade to 4x2 (pending)
A4 Leiderdorp 2x2 to 2x3
A4 Roelofarendsveen 2x2 to 2x3
A10 second Coen Tunnel 2x2 to 4+1+4

*Likely future widenings*

Not included are shoulder running projects.

A1 Diemen - Muiderberg 3+1+3 to 5+2+5
A7 N7 Groningen 2x2 to 2x4
A12 Lunetten - Bunnik 2x3 to 2x4
A12 Bunnik - Driebergen 2x2 to 2x3 + shoulder running
A12 Arnhem 2x2 to 2x3
A28 Utrecht - Amersfoort 2x2 to 2x3
A28 Zwolle - Meppel 2x2 to 2x3
A50 Grijsoord - Ewijk 2x2 to 2x4


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## CborG

New Highways:

A50 Oss-Eindhoven construction 2000-2006:

Veghel/Uden zuid 8 september 2003
Aansluiting Uden zuid 11 december 2003
Son 11 september 2003
Uden noord 1 oktober 2003
Sint-Oedenrode 2 juli 2004
Bernheze/Oss/ Landerd 5 oktober 2005
Knooppunt Paalgraven mei 2006










The last part, the connection with the excisting A50 and the A59 is has just been completed


















photo: PW100 from the Dutch Highwayforum


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## CborG

Ohter Highways U.C.: 

A37 Emmen-German-border










A73 Venlo-Roermond:










A35 around Almelo:


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## Llanfairpwllgwy-ngyllgogerychwy-rndrobwllllanty-si

It was about time the 61 from Germany got a proper connection in Venlo


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## Des

From Autosnelwegen.nl:



All highways with number of lanes by color.


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## Alargule

Doveling said:


> It was about time the 61 from Germany got a proper connection in Venlo


That's exactly the part that's NOT under construction, sadly enough...hno: One might indeed ask when the Venlo community comes to its senses and decides to no longer oppose the construction of the A74 (which would become one of the shortest highways in Holland) - all the traffic going directly through the town at this moment can't be that much fun, either...


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## Alargule

Most construction work on a single highway is to take place on the A2. There arre no less than six different parts of this highway that should receive an upgrade between now and 2020:

Between Amsterdam and Utrecht, the highway is widened to 2x5 lanes; more info to be found here

Between Utrecht and Deil junction, the highway should be widened to 2x3 lanes;

Around the city of Den Bosch, the highway should be re-constructed to 4x2 lanes; two junctions should be reconstructed as well:










Between Den Bosch and Eindhoven, the highway should be widened to 2x3, although a definite decision has yet to be taken;

Around Eindhoven, the highway should be reconstructed in a similar order like around Den Bosch. This is a project with a larger scope, though, since Eindhoven serves as an important junction for many highways (A2, A50, A58, A67 and A270). Four junctions should be reconstructed; more info can be found here

Finally, the A2 should go underground in the city of Maastricht, where the highway currently runs through as a city boulevard. No definite 'go ahead' has been given here, either.


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## Joshapd

Des said:


> From Autosnelwegen.nl:
> 
> 
> 
> All highways with number of lanes by color.











Roads with more than 55.000 vehicles a day


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## CborG

A renewed piece of highway A12 near Utrecht, six lanes! Only for a kilometre or so, but still


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## CborG

Some pictures of highways A2 and A12:

A12 near Utrecht:










A2 between Amsterdam and Utrecht:










Annoying traffic jams!!










That's why this road gets 4 extra lanes, see Alargules reply, here's a new viaduct:










In 3 years this will look completely different:










Further south, Near my hometown the A2 is also widened from a narrow 2x2 to 2x3 with enough room for a 2x5 road:

Before:










After:










All pictures are selfmade


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## Llanfairpwllgwy-ngyllgogerychwy-rndrobwllllanty-si

This picture shows the preparations of the widening of the A2 from 2x3 to 2x5


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## eusebius

The latest asset that got added to the highways of The Netherlands: voting-poll booths! With the latest elections, voters in the Netherlands were in the position to leave their ballot paper at the gas station.


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## ChrisZwolle

mij2 said:


> http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/8075/2x3nodig8qc.gif
> Roads with more than 55.000 vehicles a day


Both of them were made by me


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## ChrisZwolle

This is a map, on them are roads marked in blue which have more than 100.000 vehicles a day, data is from 2006. 

Roads about to reach this level soon (before 2010):

A1 Apeldoorn - Deventer
A2 Den Bosch - Eindhoven
A6 near Almere
A9 north of Haarlem
A12 Zoetermeer - Gouda, east of Utrecht, east of Arnhem
A15 Rotterdam - Gorinchem
A16 near Breda
A27 Gorinchem - Utrecht and Utrecht - Almere
A28 Zwolle - Meppel
A58 Tilburg - Eindhoven


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## acela

What is the design specification for the Dutch motorway?


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## ChrisZwolle

acela said:


> What is the design specification for the Dutch motorway?


At least 2 lanes in each direction, divided by a median.
Interchanges - no grade crossings.
Hard shoulders/emergency lanes
Width is mostly 3,5 meters per lane, but varies near build-up areas to 3,20 meters.

Design speed is mostly 140 - 160 km/h or more, but not in interchanges, junctions, and near cities, but it is said to be at least 100km/h. 

Maximum speed is outside urban areas mostly 120km/h, but 100km/h stretches become more regular. There are even 80km/h speed limits on six lane motorways, forced with camera's.


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## dick 2

Chris1491 said:


> At least 2 lanes in each direction, divided by a median.
> Interchanges - no grade crossings.
> Hard shoulders/emergency lanes
> Width is mostly 3,5 meters per lane, but varies near build-up areas to 3,20 meters.
> 
> Design speed is mostly 140 - 160 km/h or more, but not in interchanges, junctions, and near cities, but it is said to be at least 100km/h.
> 
> Maximum speed is outside urban areas mostly 120km/h, but 100km/h stretches become more regular. There are even 80km/h speed limits on six lane motorways, forced with camera's.



I wonder there are no Topographic maps on the side shown, they are the best for accurate road information, every four year the whole Netherlands updated!! See/look for: Topografische Dienst-Kadaster, Emmen, Nederland.


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## Rebasepoiss

Ok....Bad memory then


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## ChrisZwolle

I heard there is a chance for an A35 from Zwolle to Almelo. That would be good!


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## Almopos

An extension of the A73 and A15 would help to relieve the traffic jams in the Arnhem - Nijmegen area. They have been talking about it for so many years. 

I'm not very optimistic though! The NIMBY city council of Nijmegen does not want the extension of the A73. As for the A 15 there are no funds to pay for that project!


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## ChrisZwolle

Well, leftism is a problem if you consider road-infrastructure. Specially in Nijmegen or Utrecht or Amsterdam, where the local government is not really cooperating to relief those cities worse traffic jams.


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## ChrisZwolle

Another thing, you see often in The Netherlands, is that they use extremely narrow lanes on the motorway's left side, or they use the shoulder during rushhours as an extra lane.

I don't know about that. It certainly increases unsafety, since some motorways are so overcrowded, that the shoulder has to be used all day. 
I just drove over the A28 through Zwolle, they have those extra lanes on the left side, which is only 2,5 meters wide, with a barrier immediatly next to it. Barely anyone tries that lane, unless you've got a small car. 

They should widen roads with normal lanes. The initial costs are a bit higher, but exploitaition and maintenance costs more if you think of a time of 5 years. And a normal lane doesn't decrease traffic-safety. 
So i hope, they step off these shoulderlanes, and build normal ones instead, they are generally only 90cm wider.

They've done that on the A12 near Arnhem. They first want to build such a lane on the shoulder, but it came out that that lane has to be used all day long, so the shoulder wouldn't be available to emergency vehicles etc, so they are planning to build a normal lane instead! Good news!


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## Red85

in quality we may have one of the best in the world, the most are even better than some in germany. but in quantity of lanes and speed it isnt enough. that is realy something I do not understand. why allways that ignorant 120 or 100 or even 80. **** off, it is 'snelweg', in english: speedway. why cant you drive in areas like the flevopolder or during the night times something faster. and that point makes it the worst in europe.


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## Verso

^ Switzerland is no better.


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## ChrisZwolle

A pic of the A4 near Schiphol Airport.


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## ChrisZwolle

For those who are interested, i made photo's of some Provincial roads in the Northeast.

N307 Swifterbant - Kampen 22km, 52 pics 25,6MB

N331 Zwolle - Emmeloord 39km, 84 pics, 41,9MB

N381 Emmen - Drachten 59km, 98 pics, 13,5 MB

N331, N377, N34 Zwolle - Hasselt - Coevorden - Emmen, 67km 140 pics, 18,4MB

see this subforum on the Dutch Motorway forum for more information.


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## Alex Von Königsberg

Chris, I noticed some numbers on the traffic lights (e.g. 7.1, 7.2, 8.1). Do you know what they mean?










By the way, I really like those white stripes painted on the traffic light poles. Makes it more visible.


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## ChrisZwolle

They mean a number, which they can be identified with. If some traffic light is broken or something, they can identify the one which is broken by the intersection and number. I don't know if it is used a lot, but you see it everywhere.


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## Eddy C

*Numbers and meaning*

@Chris1491

Due to my study Traffic Management I know what these mysterious numbers mean. They explain the direction. On a normal junction you have 12 directions. You start counting with '1' for the direction South to East. '2' for South to North. '3' for South to West. '4' for West to South and so on.
For the picture it means that direction '7' goes from North to West.
I hope you understand it as explaining it in Dutch is already difficult.
the '1' in 7.1 means that it is the main'light' 7.2 can be seen lower at the corner of the junction or somewhere else.

Believe me, when you know all about the system it gives you a different view of the junctions. There are much more things to explain about it but that is too much now.
Unfortunally direction 1 is not always from South to East as it depends on the council. But direction 1 is always turning left like direction 7 is also turning left.


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## Eddy C

turning right of course..........


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## ChrisZwolle

Ah alright, so if a traffic light is broken, they know what direction is disturbed.


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## Eddy C

Hmmmm....yes, but often all lights are broken instead of one. The reason to choose this system is proper management. Trafficlights are more then just colored lights as they need to create a safe situation and no congestion.


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## CborG

Here are some updates from the widening of the Motorway A2 near Utrecht



























(photo's by PW100 from http://forum.autosnelwegen.nl)

the A35 around Almelo is also UC:



















Bridge over the Twente canal:









(photo's by Taurus)

The A73 Venlo-Roermond is nearing completion, no recent photo's available.


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## Geokioy

You have very impressive motorways ...but too many traffic jamshno: . I think your popolutioan is around 20 million people, how many cars are there in circulation?? thanks for the info...


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## ChrisZwolle

Geokioy said:


> You have very impressive motorways ...but too many traffic jamshno: . I think your popolutioan is around 20 million people, how many cars are there in circulation?? thanks for the info...


There are around 16 million inhabitants, and 7 million cars in this country. But the amount of trucks is also huge, since we are a distribution country, the load of trucks on some motorways (A1, A12, A15, A16, A27, A28, A67, A76) is overwhelming.


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## ChrisZwolle

typical traffic jams on the A28 near Zwolle.


















Check the amount of trucks:









this view is common along Dutch motorways towards Germany and Belgium.


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## keber

Curious. As there are a lot of trucks, does anybody think of introducing toll at least for them (like in Germany)? I'm sure authorities would collect a lot of money to use them for highway improvements.


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## carfentanyl

I've been on a lot of freeways all around the world, but I have never ever encountered a freeway with a higher truck density than the A16, the freeway between the seaports of Rotterdam and Antwerp.

Sometimes the right lane is just a pepetual ongoing parade of trucks without a single car.


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## ChrisZwolle

keber said:


> Curious. As there are a lot of trucks, does anybody think of introducing toll at least for them (like in Germany)? I'm sure authorities would collect a lot of money to use them for highway improvements.


Trucks are highly important for the Dutch economy. But truck tolls might be an option. But then again, they pay a lot of taxes by fueling in The Netherlands or elsewere.


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## CborG

Some random Highwaypics:

A2 near Nieuwegein, you can see the old Lekbridge and the new one nexrt to each other, untill 1999 all the traffic had to go over that small bridge, the new one is wide enough to carry 5 lanes in each direction. Room for a forth lane in 2010 is visible on the left side:










Old piece of A2:










A2, Very narrow bridge near Beesd, south of Utrecht. This stretch will be widened to 2x4 lanes by 2010:










A12, part of ring Utrecht:










A12, a Dynamic Route Information Panel or DRIP: (correct me if im wrong)










A15, very busy with lots of trucks near Tiel, the betuweline is on the left side.










A15, other direction. Alongside the Betuweline:










Lekbridge A27 on the other side of Nieuwegein:


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## ChrisZwolle

> A12, a Dynamic Route Information Panel or DRIP: (correct me if im wrong)


In English, VMS (Variable Message Sign) is more common.


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## LtBk

How many motorways are being widened?


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## ChrisZwolle

LtBk said:


> How many motorways are being widened?


Not enough. But there is some progress.

The A2 will be a construction site over a significant length. 
There are wishes to widen way more motorways, but very few of them are actually done. The majority keeps being postponed.


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## mrmojo

Very interesting. However, I do have to ask that for a country like the netherlands why rail does not take a greater priority - netherlands population density seems to be very well suited for it.


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## ChrisZwolle

mrmojo said:


> Very interesting. However, I do have to ask that for a country like the netherlands why rail does not take a greater priority - netherlands population density seems to be very well suited for it.


Our rail system is amongst the busiest of Europe. 

But the density of the Randstad region is way not high enough to support large U/S-bahn like rail. Now we have lightrail on some places, but that's not gonna work out.

And travelling by rail is very inefficient compared to road travelling.


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## LtBk

Chris1491 said:


> Our rail system is amongst the busiest of Europe.
> 
> But the density of the Randstad region is way not high enough to support large U/S-bahn like rail. Now we have lightrail on some places, but that's not gonna work out.
> 
> And travelling by rail is very inefficient compared to road travelling.


Why do you think traveling by rail is very inefficient?


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## ChrisZwolle

LtBk said:


> Why do you think traveling by rail is very inefficient?


Because train links mostly only city-centers, and in The Netherlands, city centers have more a historic purpose rather than a working environment. That takes place at other locations like industrial areas, which are badly connected with mass transit. 

From house to work, most PT trips takes over twice the time as with the car, even at relative short distances up to 20 kilometers.


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## ChrisZwolle

For example, i work at the other end of town, which is some 15km away. With the car it takes 20 minutes off-rushhour and 30 - 45 minutes in rush hour. But taking the Public Transport (buses) it would always take 1 hour, and the chance of missing a connection is there because there is only a 2 minute gap between the 2 buses. Therefore, i like to prefer the car, i can leave any time i like, and take any route i like. With the bus, you have to wait at the bus first, which can last 15 - 30 minutes, so you have to add that to the 1 hour trip.


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## ChrisZwolle

For those who are interested:

here you can find pics i took today from the German B54 and the Dutch A/N 35 from Gronau to Zwolle. The N35 is a major artery in the province of Overijssel, but it isn't a motorway yet, in fact, it goes right through towns like Almelo, Zwolle and Nijverdal, these pics were taken today, sunday, but the road jams up badly on working days. 

However, they are building a short connection bypass near Almelo, so that's one obstacle less on the route from Western Overijssel to the Twente region.


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## DannyH

Chris1491 said:


> There are around 16 million inhabitants, and 7 million cars in this country.(..)


Actually, there are over 8 million cars (don't know if trucks are included though, I guess not), on almost 16.5 million inhabitants.
Way too much!


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## ChrisZwolle

DannyH said:


> Way too much!


How should people travel otherwise?


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## LtBk

Chris1491 said:


> How should people travel otherwise?


By using mass transit? Using mass transit has its own advantages, and you can't force everybody to drive like in the US.


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## ChrisZwolle

Mass transit is very inefficient compared to a car. I used to travel a lot to the north of the country, which is some 75 miles away from where i live. With the car, that takes just over an hour, but over 2,5 hours with mass transit. 

And mass transit is overcrowded already during rush hours.


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## Rebasepoiss

Chris1491 said:


> Mass transit is very inefficient compared to a car. I used to travel a lot to the north of the country, which is some 75 miles away from where i live. With the car, that takes just over an hour, but over 2,5 hours with mass transit.
> 
> And mass transit is overcrowded already during rush hours.


Then perhaps the government should support public transport more...


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## ChrisZwolle

Rebasepoiss said:


> Then perhaps the government should support public transport more...


They do it already. However the PT is used ten times less, it get's already 3 to 4 times more funding. 

The problem is, that work is very concentrated in some areas, with urban sleep cities at some 10 - 30km distance, and all that traffic has to travel over a road that has the same width as back in the seventies, but a ten times higher traffic volume than then. That gives problems. 

During rushhours, most of the central and western part and around larger cities is completely jammed. The road between The Hague/Rotterdam and Amsterdam is still 2x2 lanes in some places, and 2x5 in other stretches. That gives huge bottlenecks. And the road between The Hague and Utrecht and between Rotterdam and Utrecht is also still 2x2 lanes. 

They are converting the 2x3 A2 between Utrecht and Amsterdam to a 2x5 highway, which is badly needed, since traffic jams become longer and longer, with daily distances between 20 and 30km of backup. 
In Rushhours, the A2 is almost completely jammed between Den Bosch and Amsterdam.


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## ChrisZwolle

Oh, and not unimportant, there are almost no alternatives for the motorway. So all local and regional have to use the motorway too. That gives high volumes in rural areas too.


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## Joshapd

Yes and one of the problems of PT is that it, busses at least, mostly also use the congested roads in the city, but also outside it. So mostly taking a bike is the quickest way when you don't need to go really far.


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## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, did you know Dutch people travel more miles annualy on a bicycle than with the train?


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## LtBk

> he PT is used ten times less


Than why not improve PT? Again, not everybody wants to drive and no amount of motorway widening isn't going to solve traffic problems in long term(look at US freeways for example).


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## ChrisZwolle

It is much cheaper for the government to invest in the roads. PT only costs billions each year, while driving, the government gets like 14 billion each year in taxes and stuff. 

And it is proven that a better PT doesnt attract drivers, so you have a very expensive PT, and still jamming and polluting motorways. 
Investing in motorways is so much better for air pollution than investing in PT. 

The last years, there has been such a waste of money in PT.

1 billion in a automatic bus that doesn't work in Eindhoven
7 billion for an High speed rail, while upgrading of the existing tracks, or double the existing tracks was much cheaper. 
5 billion for an already absolutely not cost-effective freight rail line, which isn't even in operation yet. 
billions for free PT. 

And did the traffic jams become shorter? No, they become longer every year, annually the traffic jams rise with 10%, while traffic growth is limited to just 2 or 3%.


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## CborG

Some renders of the widened A2 in 2010:




































_© Rijkswaterstaat Utrecht_

I cant wait to drive it!


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## LtBk

Chris1491 said:


> It is much cheaper for the government to invest in the roads. PT only costs billions each year, while driving, the government gets like 14 billion each year in taxes and stuff.
> 
> And it is proven that a better PT doesnt attract drivers, so you have a very expensive PT, and still jamming and polluting motorways.
> Investing in motorways is so much better for air pollution than investing in PT.
> 
> The last years, there has been such a waste of money in PT.
> 
> 1 billion in a automatic bus that doesn't work in Eindhoven
> 7 billion for an High speed rail, while upgrading of the existing tracks, or double the existing tracks was much cheaper.
> 5 billion for an already absolutely not cost-effective freight rail line, which isn't even in operation yet.
> billions for free PT.
> 
> And did the traffic jams become shorter? No, they become longer every year, annually the traffic jams rise with 10%, while traffic growth is limited to just 2 or 3%.


Madrid has both excellent mass transit and motorway network yet it still has traffic jams(from what i read). Traffics jams aren't going away unless you ban many cars.


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## Alex Von Königsberg

CborG said:


>


It looks like the Canadian 401. I am not a fan of these super-wide motorways hno:


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## CborG

It's only for a kilometer or so, that 16 lane stretch. The rest wil have 2x5 or 2-3-3-2 lanes.


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## Nephasto

Which stretch of the A2 will be widened? Amsterdam-Utrecht?


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## Elmo

@Nephasto:

From Amsterdam to Utrecht it will be 2x5 lanes and from Utrecht to Den Bosch it will be 2x4 or 2x3. The road will also be widened near Eindhoven which is more to the south.


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## ChrisZwolle

Jup, and there a plans to build a tunnel underneath the southern city of Maastricht, where the traffic has to go through traffic lights. 

Furthermore, there are plans to widen the stretch Den Bosch - Eindhoven, and Roermond - Geleen.
And they rebuild the ring of Den Bosch from 2x3 lanes to 4x2 lanes. 

So the entire A2 will be quite some construction site for the next decade.

There is still this ridiculously narrow bridge near Beesd (between Utrecht and Den Bosch). This one would be widen from 2x2 without shoulders to 2x4 with shoulders.


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## Regulus

In this moment how many lanes have the A2? 
Actualy are there in Germany highway with 5 lanes for many km?

Bye

Regulus


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## ChrisZwolle

The A2 differs from 2x3 lanes from Amsterdam to Utrecht, 4+3 near Nieuwegein, and 2x2 towards Eindhoven, but there are 2x3 stretches too. The beltway of Eindhoven has 2x3 lanes, and the southern part is 2x2. 

You see, al these changes creates bottlenecks. Less lanes, but not lesser traffic.


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## Regulus

Chris1491 said:


> The A2 differs from 2x3 lanes from Amsterdam to Utrecht, 4+3 near Nieuwegein, and 2x2 towards Eindhoven, but there are 2x3 stretches too. The beltway of Eindhoven has 2x3 lanes, and the southern part is 2x2.
> 
> You see, al these changes creates bottlenecks. Less lanes, but not lesser traffic.


Thanks. Situation must be problematic with all these changes, I believe! 
Where begin and finish the A2?

Regulus


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## dommeltje

*Utrecht: creative sound barriers*

Almost the hole city and surrounding of Utrecht (Netherlands) is under construction. One of those construction plans is the Motorway A2. On the east side the city is expanding there grounds whit the biggest housing location of the Netherlands. In that part they build 30.000 houses for 100.000 inhabitants. The motorway A2 is going straight to the old en new part of the city. 1.6 km will be tunneled and on top of the tunnel they build a hole new shopping centre. On top a train station en the highest tower of the Netherlands 262 m -69 floors.










The A2 jumps under the shopping centre and goes 1.6 km trough a tunnel.^^










They are busy whit the land-tunnel^^

The part of the motorway before the tunnel they try whit creative sound barriers to stop the sound for all the new inhabitants.
The first sound barrier is made of steel en Glass and is 1 km long and called the cockpit. The cockpit has won a lot of design prices.










They integrated a car showroom whit expansive cars.



















The second is called the Wall and is 800 m long and filled whit 50.000m2 leisure

http://www.thewall.nu/impressiesv1.php
http://www.thewall.nu/
Watch the movie's of the wall^^



















The third is a medical company.










The first sound barrier is completed, and the Wall is U/C, the third one they begin in 2008.

More Utrecht projects; http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=419595


----------



## Build

Huge project:nuts: . I like the first two sound-barriers. The Cockpit has a fine steel construction. The Wall is triple ground exploiting, shops, 1700 hundred parking spaces on the roof and it kills the sound. I hope the color stays red. Nice video clipkay: .


----------



## Koesj

There's about as much state money reserved for state public transport (rail) as for state roads (a large majority of which are freeways). Freeways carry about seven times more people than our train network here in the Netherlands. Investing in road infrastructure has been cut back in favor of rail projects during the last couple of decades.

So you're going to tell me we have to _increase_ our PT spending in contrast to fixing the damn road problem? That's not a change for the better. It's not a change at all really.


----------



## rebellenclub

^^^The color stays red. It is cool to drive there, every day i drive around Utrecht to my work and every day Ill see something new happening there. Its one giant construction area.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Monday, i took pics of the A7 from Den Oever to Zaandam (near Amsterdam). It was really quiet traffic that day, because it was a holiday, normally the last 20km of the A7 is completely jammed.

*Den Oever - Hoorn - Purmerend - Zaandam-Centrum *

>>>79 pics, 41 MB<<<


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Damn it, Chris! When will you learn not to shoot pictures facing the sun?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I know. But we didn't have this piece of the A7 yet for www.roadpics.net  And since we haven't seen clouds in like 45 days, there is no option but taking pics in the sun


----------



## Verso

So many trucks! Crazy! :nuts:


----------



## eusebius

The amount of traffic is completely beyond control. Our Chris likes to go driving just for the sake of it. Then complains about the roads being congested :laugh:

This is the on-line mapfinder www.routenet.nl - just check the ridiculous amount of motorways.


----------



## Verso

eusebius said:


> The amount of traffic is completely beyond control. Our Chris likes to go driving just for the sake of it. Then complains about the roads being congested :laugh:


:lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*new signalization in the Netherlands.*

Since a few years, signage is not only done by the ANWB, but can be done on provincial roads by other organisations. This new stuff is called "redesign", and differs from the original Interstate highway series font, and new arrows, pictograms etc.

Motorways and other state roads remain (thank god) with the interstate signs.

Here's a comparisation, which do you like more?

Left: Original Interstate series, right: New redesign series.









The A366 is a fictional roadnumber. the N366 does exist there (near Stadskanaal in the Groningen province).


----------



## pilotos

Ehm, the change is really small, but the old seems better, the new arrows are ugly, the numbers seems to be better though, more clear, and the highway sign without the arrow is bad as well.


----------



## Verso

^ I don't like the latter thing either. Otherwise, hmm, wow, unique! The previous arrows bore me to death (similar to the old Slovenian arrows), the new ones... wow, these are REALLY unique! I actually like them!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I made a nice Video of the A28 motorway from Nieuwleusen to Zwolle. It's about 18MB large


----------



## radi6404

Chris1491 said:


> Here's a video of this stretch, which my mate and i made. (he made the video, i did the pictures) of this truck-phenomenon near the German-Dutch border.
> 
> Notice the bad road surface however this is only like 15 years old. The German A30 has an even worse roadsurface.
> 
> VIDEO 61MB, Rapidshare
> 
> oh yeah, the video includes some nice music, so the video is not boring to watch


germany has many motorways in bad condition, pretty bad are A8 and A81 of those i travelled on but besides new ones Geran mtoroways are not in a very good condition, i don´t know why.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Chris, do you have some videos where you drive on city streets? Driving on motorway is pretty much the same around the world, but city or suburb driving is very different in terms of traffic signs, road marking, driving behaviour, etc.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Yeah, I like German arrows too  The only thing I don't like about the new design is that motorway 'exit' sign lost its arrow.


----------



## eusebius

Hmm, it's pretty much the same everywhere; we don't have signs telling young Chris to get on his bike.

He should. He's only in his twenties, still lives with mum and dad, and cycling to work only takes a few minutes. Chris is such a lazy ass! He lives in the small town of Zwolle and can't even cross like a 20 kilometres distance. Poor Chris. There's many like him though.

Really sad world, isn't it?


----------



## Verso

^ I thought he was 19, and lived alone.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Four years ago I was pretty much like him - in my early twenties, living with parents and driving for NO reason for hundreds of kilometres :lol: One day I drove for almost 1000 km just to see the Oregon - Nevada border hno: And then.... I met a girl!


----------



## TheCat

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Chris, do you have some videos where you drive on city streets? Driving on motorway is pretty much the same around the world, but city or suburb driving is very different in terms of traffic signs, road marking, driving behaviour, etc.


I have posted this link a while ago (in this thread):
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=CarnagerSDV&p=r&page=1

It has some pretty nice driving videos from the Netherlands (and some from Belgium), including pretty interesting city/town driving scenes. Most videos also have fun music in them.

@Chris1491: Why don't you post your videos on Youtube like that dude in the link? It will be easier to watch


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah i can do that but youtube and google video have such a bad quality... 

Don't pay attention to that Eusebius guy, he's just mentally ill and doesn't know me at all obviously.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

I think those fileshare sites that you are using are perfectly fine, and they save quality.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Youtube is damn slow. It will only upload with like 12 kb/sec. I can do 20 times that speed


----------



## firmanhadi

Whoa amazing sight. What's that lone truck doing in photo #11, isn't he supposed to be waiting in line like the rest of them?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04Yx934IHO8 here's the video on youtube. But a worse quality than the rapidshare link.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

firmanhadi said:


> Whoa amazing sight. What's that lone truck doing in photo #11, isn't he supposed to be waiting in line like the rest of them?


Some trucks are allowed to pass through Germany, like flowers, fresh food etc.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ There are a few fixed speed traps installed. But we have automatic controls on 80km/h stretches in the Randstad area! You WILL get a ticket if you drive to fast there. Futhermore, there are a lot of fixed speed camera's on the National and Provincial roads, and speed limits are sometimes ridiculously low, compared to like Belgium and Germany. 
Sometimes some police guys are laying in the plants sneaky setting up a speed trap behind trees, signs, dumpsters etc. 
Sometimes it looks more like a police state if you ask me. 

There are like 7 speed camera's on a 4km part of the ringroad of my hometown, that's ridiculous.


----------



## Nephasto

Good news! kay:

Any plans to connect the German A51 with the Dutch A2 about 20 kms south of Venlo?

And, as we're on it (German-Dutch connections), aren't there planned conections between the Dutch A35 and German A-31 near Enschede and between Dutch A37 and German A31 ner Emmen?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nephasto said:


> Good news! kay:
> 
> Any plans to connect the German A51 with the Dutch A2 about 20 kms south of Venlo?
> 
> And, as we're on it (German-Dutch connections), aren't there planned conections between the Dutch A35 and German A-31 near Enschede and between Dutch A37 and German A31 ner Emmen?


A52 - A2: No connection. There used to be an A280, but now they are building a nice expressway, but no motorway-like roads.

A31 - A35: There is a 2+1 config stretch here. Fair enough for this quiet connection. Interchange Gronau (B54-A31) is a cloverleaf.

A31 - A37: The A37 is being extended to the German border as we speak. However, the Germans only build something like a Gelbe Autobahn Bundesstraße from the A31 to the Dutch border.


----------



## Qaabus

The chance of getting a ticket is not that big. Around some cities there are some stretches with speedcameras or average speed cameras. These are stationary and often signed, so everybody knows where they are. And there are mobile radar controls, but their positions are announced on the radio right after the traffic jams. So if you keep your eyes and ears open the chance of getting a ticket is pretty slim. 

I've never had one, and I tend to drive well above the speedlimit.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Qaabus said:


> I've never had one, and I tend to drive well above the speedlimit.


Me too, because i know the locations where they are checking your speed. 

But i drive a lot in the provinces lately, and it is embarassing what kind of roads they call main roads. Belgium and Germany do that much better. Always a 50 limit near some houses, in Belgium that's more often 70 or even 90. In Germany you are allowed to drive 100km/h outside city limits, that's what i call driving. You fall asleep on Dutch N-roads when driving like 70km/h behind some slow elderly people.


----------



## LtBk

I bet the Dutch government is desperate for money.


----------



## eusebius

Chris1491 said:


> Me too, because i know the locations where they are checking your speed.
> 
> But i drive a lot in the provinces lately, and it is embarassing what kind of roads they call main roads. Belgium and Germany do that much better. Always a 50 limit near some houses, in Belgium that's more often 70 or even 90. In Germany you are allowed to drive 100km/h outside city limits, that's what i call driving. You fall asleep on Dutch N-roads when driving like 70km/h behind some slow elderly people.



Serves you right. Your level of tolerance is alarmingly low. There's a very simple reason for this limit: it saves lives, you short-minded silly kid.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

eusebius said:


> Serves you right. Your level of tolerance is alarmingly low. There's a very simple reason for this limit: it saves lives, you short-minded silly kid.


That is nonsense. On German roads there are an equal number of fatalities/accidents, but they have generally a 20 - 40km/h higher speed limit, or even no speed limit.


----------



## Nephasto

Well, if a road goes through a city or village it's speed has to be reduced generally to 50km/h.
Having a road with a speed limit of 90km/h through a village wouldn't be reasonable.

This is just an example of a very simple case... I guess this is not the case that makes chris being uppset.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No i don't like it when a speed of 50 or 60 is installed when there are like 10 - 20 farms/houses near the road (not necessary on the road).


----------



## CborG

Update of the A2 Landtunnel:



the runner said:


> Gaat lekker snel(maar ze moeten ook nog wel een stukkie)


----------



## LtBk

eusebius said:


> Serves you right. Your level of tolerance is alarmingly low. There's a very simple reason for this limit: it saves lives, you short-minded silly kid.


We had low speed limits for a long time and that hasn't stop people from killing themselves.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Today report from the traffic information center www.vid.nl, says the amount of traffic jams has risen with 17,3% this first half year compared to the first half of 2006. 

History;

2003 4,5%
2004 9,6%
2005 2,9%
2006 10,5%
2007 17,3%

things are going out of hand...


----------



## LtBk

Unfortunately, traffic jams is an international crisis and no amount of highway upgrades is going to get rid of them.


----------



## CborG

^^That's true but here in NL most highways were constructed in the 60's and 70's when traffic wasn't as busy as today. The amount of traffic has doubled itself so many times and nothing was done about the roads. Traffic jams around the big cities will allways excist but some are unnessacary long and can be alot shorter if some extra lanes would be added.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, most motorways we have, have the capacitiy of the 1980's. However the biggest growth in traffic was after that period. There is a big difference in doing nothing, or try to control it. Because things are going out of control. This morning, roadmarkings came loose from the A9 near Amsterdam. 90km of traffic jam was related to that single incident, and the entire region of Amsterdam was gridlocked.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's really raining severe truck accidents! For the last week, we've got every day heavy truck accidents with total motorway closure! Now there are 5 trucks crashed into eachother on the A15 near Rotterdam. This morning a heavy crash was on the A28 near Zwolle, with trucks involved. Yesterday 2 trucks have crashed on the A4 near Leiden, the day before, a truck has hit a women getting out of her car on the A58. Monday, a truck has flipped over on the A2 near Eindhoven, entire region gridlocked. And not to mention the accidents with hazardous materials.


----------



## xlchris

^^ I've heard that. And there also was about 36km jams near Amsterdam today because there was only one lane on the A9.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

4 more trucks have crashed.

3 trucks and a car crashed into eachother on the A16 near Dordrecht, a truck has crashed on the A27 near Gorinchem, and trucks have accidents on the A16 near Dordrecht and on the A28 near Zwolle. 

This is sure a bad day for the insurance companies...


----------



## Patrick

how does it come that your amount of traffic jams has grown so freaking fast in the few last years?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Because a very small growth of traffic (like 1 - 2%) is enough to create 10 - 20% more traffic jams. Our roads are FULL. All capacity is taken, even outside rushhours (lowest hour 12.00 - 13.00 is just 10 - 20% less traffic than busiest rushhour).
And as you might know, we have a huge amount of trucks driving from/to Belgium and Germany. And most motorways are still only 2x2 when they require 2x4 lanes. You do the math. 

The average motorway near cities have more traffic than the busiest roads in the Ruhr area. Even a city like mine (Zwolle) has 130.000 vehicles a day on the A28 yet the city has only 115.000 inhabitants. The A40 in the Ruhr has 140.000KFZ/tag (AADT) and that's the busiest Autobahn in Western Germany. 

Some motorways have over 200.000 vehicles a day and have only 2x3 lanes. So they are jammed most of the time.
Another problem are bridges. As you know we are a flat country with lots of canals and stuff. Most of them have removable bridges in the motorway, dating back from the 60/70's. But they are still in operation, and sometimes even open in rushhours. Within 10 minutes you have like 15km of traffic jam behind it. 

So our motorwayinfrastructure isn't outdated, but the capacity of them is.


----------



## eusebius

Chris1491 said:


> That is nonsense. On German roads there are an equal number of fatalities/accidents, but they have generally a 20 - 40km/h higher speed limit, or even no speed limit.


Go live in Germany then! You're obsessed and uncapable of reasoning. Ask a surgeon how much difference speed limits make.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I hope to go to the new A37 in a few hours. See if i can make some pics


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A37 - B402 Hoogeveen - Meppen*
This is the A37, the part Hoogeveen - Interchange Holsloot is one of the most rural motorways in the Netherlands, and also hasn't got a centrer divider or crash barrier. This is very uncommon in the Netherlands. The eastern section from Holsloot to the German border near Zwartemeer is nearing completion. I took this drive because they say the eastbound lanes were completed, but that's just not true.

*70 pics, Picasa Webalbum*


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*B402 Meppen - Hoogeveen*
And backwards...

*57 pics, Picasa Webalbum*


----------



## Verso

^^ This is like driving through US prairies.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Dude, you need to see real US prairies


----------



## mgk920

I agree, it looks a lot more like what one would find driving the Indiana Toll Road/Ohio Turnpike eastward from I-94 at Gary, IN to about the I-90 split at Lorain, OH. It also looks much like the new US 10 freeway/expressway for about 50-60 km west from US 41 at Appleton. It reminds me a lot of the OH 2 freeway in the Port Clinton, OH area, too.

The North American 'prairies' are a semi-arid area and much of it is pool-table flat to the horizon, almost freakish to drive through.

Mike


----------



## Verso

It was the nearest correlation, looking at the middle grass.


----------



## CborG

Pics of the demolition of an old viaduct on the Eindhoven beltway (A2) they had to completely close off the Highway, which was announced all over the country 2 weeks before. 









It says something like; Stay away from Eindhoven this weekend!

Pics by PW100 saturday 07-07-07:






















And the day after that, sunday, the viaduct was gone:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N302 Hoorn - Kootwijk*

Hoorn - Enkhuizen - Lelystad - Harderwijk - Kootwijk

This is one of the longest national roads in The Netherlands, and also one of the most varied ones. You go through flat polders, over a 28km long dam, over lakes, and through the foresty Veluwe hills. It connects the A7 with the A1, and is one of the better build-out roads in NL.

*180 pics, Picasa webalbum*


----------



## Verso

^ Must be a great feeling, driving over the dam. :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Verso said:


> ^ Must be a great feeling, driving over the dam. :cheers:


Yeah i drove 120 km/h there. It felt like 40km/h. So long straight out. The limit is 100 though.


----------



## Verso

Do you have any ground photos of Afsluitdijk?


----------



## CborG

^^Search at google for 'afsluitdijk' and you'll find many pics, like this one:










:cheers:


----------



## Verso

^^ I thought Chris had some of his own.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Verso said:


> ^^ I thought Chris had some of his own.


However it's quite close to my home (like 130km), i don't drive there often. Last time was 1,5 year ago, didn't made pics then. 

But you mean something like this;


----------



## Verso

^^ Exactly. :cheers:


----------



## KIWIKAAS

*The Hague to Schiphol Airport*

Sorry for the small size of the images (had my phone-camera on the wrong setting unfortunately)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The A4 is one of the most diverse motorways in terms of appearing. It has been planned for 40 years between Delft and Schiedam, has 2x3 lanes near Den Haag and Leiden, and goes back in an extremely narrow aquaduct north of Leiden. Then, after interchange Burgerveen, the road 2x5 lanes wide, the widest one-piece road (no parallels) in the Netherlands.


----------



## CborG

-edit-


----------



## ZeTaCy

@CborG

Are they constructing more lanes @ vaanplein? I still see overheads that dont have any connection with the highways yet.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ That's because of the previous configuration of interchange Vaanplein. The A15 will be widened though.


----------



## CborG

A map with the old configuration drawn over the current one:

http://maps.google.nl/maps/ms?ie=UT...d=107101594904615898080.00043681424e8234e7a79


----------



## Wallaroo

---


----------



## CborG

^^:crazy: That is Danmark, not the Netherlands. Try to take a look in an atlas next time..


----------



## CborG

Hmm, forgot to post the adapted view here too:

Almere, A6xA27:










Beekbergen, A1xA50:










Drachten, A7xN31:










Europaplein (M'tricht): A2xN2










Gouwe, A12xA20:










de Hogt, A2xA67:










Julianaplein, A7xA28:










Kerensheide, A2xA76:










Kethelplein, A4xA20:










Kleinpolderplein, A13xA20:



















Kruisdonk, A2xA79:










Leenderheide A2xA67:










Maanderbroek, A12xA30:










Neerbosch, A73x?:










Oudenrijn, in een vierluik, A2xA12:










Prins Clausplein, A4xA12:










Ridderkerk Noord, A15xA16:










Rijnsweerd, A27xA28:










de Stok, A17xA58:










Terbregseplein, A16xA20:










Vaanplein, A15xA29:










Velperbroek, A12xA348:










Waalsdorperplein, N14xN44:










Waterberg, A12xA50:










Zaarderheiken, A67xA73:










Zoomland, A4xA58:










-----


----------



## CborG

Ridderkerk-south, A15xA16:



















Europaplein (Groningen) N7xA7:

(This junction is soon to be replaced by a new junction, which is U/C now, further east)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The section 4x4 in Interchange Ridderkerk (that interchange spans over 3km) are actually 2 adjacent motorways; the A15 and A16. 

It's something different than a double number on a motorway, here are physically 2 motorways next to eachother.


----------



## [NL] Mr.Mit. [NL]

The ones in my signature are very awesome videos!!


V V V V


----------



## Martuh

LtBk said:


> Unfortunately, traffic jams is an international crisis and no amount of highway upgrades is going to get rid of them.


Well in Holland things are a little different. The four largest cities (Big-4) are about 50 km from eachother, in a turned square: 

--------Amsterdam----
-----------------------
The Hague----Utrecht-
-----------------------
----Rotterdam---------

Something like that.

Some couple of years (sixties, seventies) after WWII, Dutch economy was booming. People who gained money were suburbanizing and moved to villages nearby the Big-4. Most of these villages were in the middle of the Big-4, which was semi-nature but mostly countryside. The Dutch government was afraid that this 'Green Heart' would be completely built full, and pointed 'growcores', villages outside the Big-4, that could grow into middle-size cities. The main idea was that the people would move and thus also the companies. The people moved to these growcores, however, the companies didn't. Simple cause-effect: huge traffic jams between the growcores and the Big-4.

I'm working on a masterplan myself, as a future urban planning student (my study starts next month) to build a S-bahn type of network in the whole Randstad to finally solve this problem.


----------



## SmarterChild

Chris1491 said:


> The section 4x4 in Interchange Ridderkerk (that interchange spans over 3km) are actually 2 adjacent motorways; the A15 and A16.
> 
> It's something different than a double number on a motorway, here are physically 2 motorways next to eachother.


I like this interchange a lot. For some reason riding on it is an amazing feeling - I can't quite describe this feeling. :nuts: :lol: 

Is there more interchanges like this in the NL?


----------



## CborG

^^You mean the wideness of the roads or the size of the junction?
There is another junction, Rottepolderplein, which actually concists of 3 separate junctions very close to each other. The A9, A205, A200 and N205 meet each other here.

http://maps.google.nl/maps?ll=52.3767,4.705024&spn=0.024469,0.058365&t=k&z=14&om=1

A junction with roads a wide as near Ridderkerk can be found near the Hague, between Ypenburg and Prins Clausplein:

http://maps.google.nl/maps?ll=52.050577,4.361572&spn=0.003081,0.007296&t=k&z=17&om=1

Also near schiphol, junction de Hoek:

http://maps.google.nl/maps?ll=52.288887,4.728606&spn=0.003065,0.007296&t=k&z=17&om=1


----------



## SmarterChild

CborG said:


> ^^You mean the wideness of the roads or the size of the junction?
> There is another junction, Rottepolderplein, which actually concists of 3 separate junctions very close to each other. The A9, A205, A200 and N205 meet each other here.
> 
> http://maps.google.nl/maps?ll=52.3767,4.705024&spn=0.024469,0.058365&t=k&z=14&om=1
> 
> A junction with roads a wide as near Ridderkerk can be found near the Hague, between Ypenburg and Prins Clausplein:
> 
> http://maps.google.nl/maps?ll=52.050577,4.361572&spn=0.003081,0.007296&t=k&z=17&om=1
> 
> Also near schiphol, junction de Hoek:
> 
> http://maps.google.nl/maps?ll=52.288887,4.728606&spn=0.003065,0.007296&t=k&z=17&om=1


I mean both the wideness of the road and the outline of the junction. The dutch sure have practical solutions. 

Thanks for the links btw. That's some sexy stuff.


----------



## ZeTaCy

Martuh said:


> Well in Holland things are a little different. The four largest cities (Big-4) are about 50 km from eachother, in a turned square:
> 
> --------Amsterdam----
> -----------------------
> The Hague----Utrecht-
> -----------------------
> ----Rotterdam---------
> 
> Something like that.
> 
> Some couple of years (sixties, seventies) after WWII, Dutch economy was booming. People who gained money were suburbanizing and moved to villages nearby the Big-4. Most of these villages were in the middle of the Big-4, which was semi-nature but mostly countryside. The Dutch government was afraid that this 'Green Heart' would be completely built full, and pointed 'growcores', villages outside the Big-4, that could grow into middle-size cities. The main idea was that the people would move and thus also the companies. The people moved to these growcores, however, the companies didn't. Simple cause-effect: huge traffic jams between the growcores and the Big-4.
> 
> I'm working on a masterplan myself, as a future urban planning student (my study starts next month) to build a S-bahn type of network in the whole Randstad to finally solve this problem.


Good luck kicking some environmentalists ass!


----------



## CborG

Another highway nearing completion!!:banana:

The A35 near Almelo:









Photo by Taurus

We're waiting for the rest to open:









Photo by Chris


----------



## rick1016

Nice looking highway.


----------



## Joshapd

Martuh said:


> Well in Holland things are a little different. The four largest cities (Big-4) are about 50 km from eachother, in a turned square:
> 
> --------Amsterdam----
> -----------------------
> The Hague----Utrecht-
> -----------------------
> ----Rotterdam---------
> 
> Something like that.
> 
> Some couple of years (sixties, seventies) after WWII, Dutch economy was booming. People who gained money were suburbanizing and moved to villages nearby the Big-4. Most of these villages were in the middle of the Big-4, which was semi-nature but mostly countryside. The Dutch government was afraid that this 'Green Heart' would be completely built full, and pointed 'growcores', villages outside the Big-4, that could grow into middle-size cities. The main idea was that the people would move and thus also the companies. The people moved to these growcores, however, the companies didn't. Simple cause-effect: huge traffic jams between the growcores and the Big-4.
> 
> I'm working on a masterplan myself, as a future urban planning student (my study starts next month) to build a S-bahn type of network in the whole Randstad to finally solve this problem.


Interesting, for my profielwerkstuk I'm doing something a bit similar. I'll try to find out if connecting the different urbannetworks (Randstadrail etc.) will help against the traffic problem on the road.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Maybe you should mention in your PWS, there hasn't been much capacity adding since 1985, while population was growing by 2 million since then.


----------



## Joshapd

You mean the highways? Because I think I'll focus more on the PT and one of my points will be that a S-Bahn kind of network which also connect different bigger cities (no intercity) will contribute to PT use. But I hardly done anytinhg already I still have almost a year  but thanks anyway.


----------



## CborG

Between Amsterdam and Antwerp there are only 2 stops; Rotterdam and Schiphol. Antwerp-Rotterdam is roughly 90km and Rotterdam-Schiphol is almost 50km. So 300km/h is very possible, although not for much longer than 15-20 minutes.


----------



## RoadUser

CborG said:


> Between Amsterdam and Antwerp there are only 2 stops; Rotterdam and Schiphol. Antwerp-Rotterdam is roughly 90km and Rotterdam-Schiphol is almost 50km. So 300km/h is very possible, although not for much longer than 15-20 minutes.


Tks.


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## ChrisZwolle

> *Long traffic jams because of rain*
> 
> Continuous rainshowers caused a lot of traffic jams in the central part of the Netherlands. Most motorways in the central part of the Netherlands were jammed, 80 traffic jams and 370km of queue lasted the morning, while the morningrushhour continued into eveningrushhour, with over 60 traffic jams and 340km of queue.


In normal circumstances, Dutch drivers tend to keep less than a second distance to the next car. (almost tailgating). But in rain, drivers tends to keep a more safe distance, creating a lot of extra and longer traffic jams. Although 300 - 400km of jam is pretty normal, sometimes it's over 600km of queue. During winter time with unexpected snow, traffic jams grow to a whopping 950km of queue at peak.


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## x-type

yuotalk about trains - what is max speed of Thalys in the Netherlands?


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## ChrisZwolle

Now 160km/h (on a very short stretch, mostly 120/140km/h), in the future 300km/h.


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## x-type

i thought they run up tp 300 as in France!:uh: do you know for Belgium? 
btw, i guess the same situation is with ICE lines, right?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't know, this is also a bit offtopic


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## Jeroen669

We don't have High Speed Rail systems in use yet. Most of the city-connecting rail network is 130-140 km/h. (there are some stretches 160km/h, but most trains (in fact I thought all of them, except the Thalys) don't have the right security for that). On local lines it differs from 80 to 130 km/h.

On the new HSL-stretch I thougt it would become 250km/h on the stretch Rotterdam - Schiphol and 300 km/h between Rotterdam and Antwerp.


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## ChrisZwolle

> *Accident cloggs up Rotterdam*
> 
> An accident this morning caused a gridlock in a large region around Rotterdam. The accident happened on the A16 at the Van Brienenoord bridge across the Meuse river, causing a 12km long queue behind it, but also blocking other motorways, so an 20km long queue existed on the A15 from Gorinchem, and while over 20km split in 3 qeues blocked the A20 motorway at the nothern side of Rotterdam. The A15 south of Rotterdam jammed aswell, and a 12km long queue existed on the A29, making the gridlock complete in the Rotterdam region. The A4 queued as well, on the western side of Rotterdam. Over 70km of queue was the result around 8.30 am because of this single accident.
> 
> Total queus reached 80 traffic jams and 370km of queue


One simple accident.... Entire region gridlocked.:bash:


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## ChrisZwolle

> *A16 again closed due to accident*
> 
> At the same point as this morning, a truck turned over just after the Brienenoord Bridge across the Meuse river, this time in the anti-rushhour direction. It still caused long traffic jams, a 10km long traffic jam was behind it, but in the southbound direction, a traffic jam formed that lasted on the A20 and A13 motorway, causing over 40km of queue related to this accident.
> 
> At the same time, 2 lanes had to be closed in the Botlektunnel on the almost adjacent A15 motorway, where an accident took place, completing the traffic chaos around the city.
> 
> Other long queues took place at the A2, where a 30km long traffic jam formed on the western side of Utrecht, southbound, on the A28, an accident occured just north of Zwolle, causing 20km of queue northbound. On the A50, the usual 18km long queue existed between Interchange Grijsoord and Interchange Ewijk.


Truck accidents are really messing up EVERY rushhour, which now can be called half the morning and half the afternoon rushhours. hno:


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## Jeroen669

What would be the reason of such a load of accidents the last time?


----------



## xlchris

^^ Many constructions!?


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## ChrisZwolle

No, the load of trucks. It's just too much, and accidents happen. The more traffic, the more accidents, and the more impact they have. The A16 is also the busiest Dutch motorway, having an AADT of 250.000. 

If you close one motorway, the detourroute will be jammed over tens of kilometers, all motorways have reached capacity in the Netherlands, also outside of rushhours. 

Let me explain how it goes;
This is a schematic view of the motorways around Utrecht.









First, on the A2, an accident occurs. Total road closure. Inital, a traffic jam grows behind the accident, traffic has nowhere to go.
Second, the traffic jam grows, blocking the A12 traffic that wants to go on the A2 (logic route). 
The traffic jam of the A2 keeps growing, blocking also the A27, meanwhile, the traffic jam on the A12 keeps also growing, blocking A27 traffic to the A12. 

In meantime, the A27 gets "promoted" to detour route of A2 traffic towards the north. The A27 is normally very busy, and can't handle all that traffic. The entire detourroute gets jammed. 

But let's not forget the A12 traffic jam, which blocks the southbound A27 direction, so a traffic jam exist in both directions along the A27, blocking also the A28 traffic that has to go on the A27.

Now all roads in the region are jammed, and because no traffic is moving anymore, local roads to the motorways gets jammed too, causing a gridlock in the entire region.

This kind of stuff happens within 30 - 60 minutes after the accident within rushhours. The amount of traffic is huge, and the capacity is way too low for all that traffic.

I didn't even mention the soutbound A2 traffic jam because of people looking at the accident, causing traffic jams on the A9 and A10 motorways (not shown on the map).

So one single accident during rushhour (the worst is if they happen just after the start of rushhour), can blackout an entire province, and sometimes even larger areas as that, not to mention when an accident occurs on the detourroute (this happens very often, having two major motorways out of service). 

People gets delayed hours and hours, and so is transportation, where the Dutch economy is based on. You can image what consequences this have to the Dutch transport economy if it happens every day. Not to mention the much more pollution you'll get from traffic jams.


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## LtBk

You guys depend too much on auto transportion .


----------



## ChrisZwolle

LtBk said:


> You guys depend too much on auto transportion .


Not necessarily, we live with 16,5 million people on the size of some American medium-sized counties. Public transportation is very crowded too during rushhour. It's not like that's a good alternative. 

Where American freeways have 4 - 5 lanes per direction in urban areas, we have to do it with 2 or maybe 3 per direction, with often almost the same high numbers of traffic. We just have a road network, which is motorway-wise very good, but it still has the capacity of 1980, but we don't live in 1980 anymore, our population has grown with 2,5 million since then, and the government builds "new cities" away from the centers where work take place, hence the commute. The average car-commute is 25km (15 miles). But our N-road network is absolutely not an alternative, and sometimes even non-existing. 

Most rivercrossings are only possible via motorway. Across the Waal rivier, on the entire length from Germany to the Coast, there are 8 crossings, 6 of them being a motorway with no alternative, and has mostly only 2 lanes per direction.


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## Jeroen669

LtBk said:


> You guys depend too much on auto transportion .


Well, loads of countries do. And it's absolutely not that PT is non-existent. About 15% of the foreigners take PT. (which don't include the other 85% take a car!) The difficulty in our country is that we do have loads of cities, but they're all not really big. (most real cities here have 100.000-200.000 inhabitants) New city extensions are build with almost american standards. Those things are making PT attractive enough for city-to-city train connections, but not for most other trips.

And don't forget we are one of the countries with the most cyclists in the world. Our bicycle infrastructure is very extensive. In my opinion there should be more invested in that (and of course on motorways). It's way much cheaper than investments in PT and it's better for people's health.


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## ChrisZwolle

Jeroen669 said:


> New city extensions are build with almost american standards.


Not really.

Dutch Sprawl:








Zwolle, the Netherlands

American Sprawl:








Kansas City, Missouri









Oklahoma City, Oklahoma


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## Jeroen669

Bij wijze van spreken dan.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> *A1 will be clogged up with trucks*
> 
> Trucktraffic at the A1 Apeldoorn - Deventer will grow so drastically, that by 2020, one lane will be a permanent parking lane for trucks. That shows a study by local governments.
> 
> The government of Gelderland and Overijssel demanding the construction of seperate truck lanes to deal with this problem. They are dissapointed for the point of view of transportation minister Camiel Eurlings to get the A1 off the priority list, the A1 will be taken care of after 2020.
> 
> They say at short notice, a permanent traffic gridlock will enter the region, that has huge results for the economy and reachability of Eastern Netherlands and the German hinterland.


Will this be the future of the A1?








(Photo taking at De Lutte border, when trucks are not allowed in Germany on holidays).


----------



## LtBk

Chris1491 said:


> Not necessarily, we live with 16,5 million people on the size of some American medium-sized counties. Public transportation is very crowded too during rushhour. It's not like that's a good alternative.
> 
> Where American freeways have 4 - 5 lanes per direction in urban areas, we have to do it with 2 or maybe 3 per direction, with often almost the same high numbers of traffic. We just have a road network, which is motorway-wise very good, but it still has the capacity of 1980, but we don't live in 1980 anymore, our population has grown with 2,5 million since then, and the government builds "new cities" away from the centers where work take place, hence the commute. The average car-commute is 25km (15 miles). But our N-road network is absolutely not an alternative, and sometimes even non-existing.
> 
> Most rivercrossings are only possible via motorway. Across the Waal rivier, on the entire length from Germany to the Coast, there are 8 crossings, 6 of them being a motorway with no alternative, and has mostly only 2 lanes per direction.


To be fair, most urban freeways in the US are at or over capacity(495 for example) and do to urban sprawl and stupid bureaucracy, its very hard to upgrade freeways or build new ones,forcing millions to be stuck on traffic jams with no alternatives.


----------



## Koesj

LtBk said:


> To be fair, most urban freeways in the US are at or over capacity(495 for example) and do to urban sprawl and stupid bureaucracy, its very hard to upgrade freeways or build new ones,forcing millions to be stuck on traffic jams with no alternatives.


Even in our country, where space is at a prime, there are loads of possibilities to widen or upgrade our existing road network. Due to screwed up prioritizing from the state government highways only get about half of the national infrastructure budget even though they carry four times as much traffic as our PT system. With the amount of money thrown away for building two sub-optimal railway lines (HSL and the Betuweroute), a lot of highways could have been upgraded in order to accomodate way more traffic than those railway lines will probably ever carry.


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## ChrisZwolle

Wednesday in Germany is the day of unification. It means no truck traffic is allowed into Germany. Dutch police expects about 2000 trucks waiting for the border at the emergency lane.










I can see if i can take a look there, wednesday is my weekly day off.


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## Jeroen669

A new part of the Dutch motorway A35 has been opened last Saturday.:banana:

picture


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## ChrisZwolle

> Who saves us?
> 
> Last year, we all together spend 44 million hours in traffic jams, the total length of all queues were 419.000 kilometers. That is over ten times the circumference of the earth! Patrick Potgraven of the Traffic information agency expects that the statistics can add another 10% to those staggering numbers for the year 2007. "That's because our roads are full. Or better; fuller as full. And that doesn't fit", smiles the representative. His work services traffic information to radio stations.
> "The last ten years, there has been an incredible efficiencyoperation on our roads. Therefore, drivers are driving closer to eachother. On the busiests motorways there are over 3000 vehicles per lane per hour. That is huge, a real big prestation. According to traffic theories, a lane can't take more than 2400 vehicles per lane per hour". The roads have reached absolute saturation. Closer is physically impossible, extra traffic immediatly means more traffic jams. An important evidence of that is when it rains, people tend to keep more distance. Traffic jams double or triple then, with the same amount of traffic.


Source; own translation of article by the Dutch Newspaper "Algemeen dagblad".


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## Paulie Walnuts

Jeroen669 said:


> A new part of the Dutch motorway A35 has been opened last Saturday.:banana:
> 
> picture


I don't see anything. Why use Imageshack? That site sucks.


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## De Vorst

I looked at the a35 and all i saw was this yellow frog ******** accent*


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## ChrisZwolle

I think he means this one.


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## Paulie Walnuts

Doesn't look very Dutch with that concrete wall in the middle. But quite nice.


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## ChrisZwolle

I think they do that more often now. They implemented it on the new 2+1 N50 section too. It saves space, because with lanes so close to eachother, you need 2 crashbarriers of expensive steel, now only one concrete barrier which they can construct in a matter of hours, because they have some moving concrete-barrier-building-machine for it. 

You put concrete in the front, and while moving, there is placed a barrier at the back. Quite a cool technique.


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## Nephasto

Isn't that barrier a bit low for blocking the lights of the other cars?
Wouldn't those plastic things that are put on top of those jersey barriers be advisable in that curve?

I know that concrete barriers block the light much better than steel rails, but when you use rails, there generally is a few metters between the 2 directions.


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## Jeroen669

Another interesting technique used here is the light part asphalt directly next to the barrier. You'll have to watch the photo very good, but when you stand on the asphalt it it's quite a different colour. Keeps away people more from the barrier (psychological).


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## ChrisZwolle

I think this is much better as then italian barrier we saw in the Italian topic, there wasn't even a white marking, just immediatly the barrier. That is asking for accidents.


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## ChrisZwolle

*9 cars collide on A7 near Leek*

Tuesday afternoon, nine cars crashed on the A7 Groningen - Heerenveen near Leek, in the far northern of the country. Short after 5.30 pm, they closed the entire roadway to the west, traffic was detoured over the exit off and on-ramps. 

Around 18.30 a traffic jam of 11 km existed, on this normally traffic jam-free road. The road was given back to traffic around 7 pm. 

Earlier that afternoon, on the A27 Utrecht - Breda, the dilation parts of the Keizersveerbridge came loose. Because of that, the left lane was closed, causing a 14km long queue in mid-afternoon outside rushhours.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Chaos on A1 because of parked trucks on motorway*

On the A1 near the German-Dutch border, there has been a chaos because of truckdrivers who want to get out of Germany before they are not allowed to drive on holidays. The Dutch police pledges drivers not to enter the Netherlands from Germany on the A1, because trucks use the emergency and right lane as parking lane. Same problems occurred along the A67 motorway near Venlo. 

Traffic info:

*A1 Osnabrück - Hengelo*
_Between the German border and exit De Lutte 2 km jammed because of 1 closed lane._

Between the German border and exit De Lutte 
[!]_ closure of the right lane_
Truckers from Germany using driving lanes as parking lanes.

*Osnabrück - Apeldoorn*
Between the German border and Interchange Beekbergen (75km)
[!] _All rest areas overcrowded_
Because of German holiday that doesn't allow trucks to drive after 24.00 hrs.

*A67 Venlo - Eindhoven*
[!]_All rest areas overcrowded_
Because of German holiday that doesn't allow trucks to drive after 24.00 hrs.

*A76 Aachen - Geleen*
[!]_All rest areas overcrowded_
Because of German holiday that doesn't allow trucks to drive after 24.00 hrs.


Chaotic scenes also on the Polish and Czech borders.

EDIT:

*Dutch police warns for unlighted trucks parked all over the motorway.*
All motorways near the German border has been clogged up with trucks. Chaotic scenes were reported from the A1, A2, A67 and A76 because truckes put their trucks to the limit to reach the Dutch border in order not to be stuck in Germany for 24 hrs, because they are not allowed to drive on German holidays.

All rest areas and emergency lanes has been filled with trucks. Right lanes has been closed, and a 70km/h limit has been posted because of safety-issues regarding parked trucks along the motorway. 

When truckers acces the Netherlands, they want to stop as soon as possible, not to violate driving time regulations, which is seeable on the Tachograph. Because there is no space at all on rest areas, truckers park their trucks unlighted all over the emergency lanes.

Because this kind of behaviour is life-threatening, the Dutch traffic police urges drivers to be careful along motorways to and near the German border. Truckers are being advised to leave their lights on.


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## ChrisZwolle

This was the view in May 2007, i wonder what i see tomorrow.


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## LtBk

And i thought truck traffic in U.S was bad enough.


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## Verso

Anything positive from the Netherlands?


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## Nephasto

Chriszwolle said:


> I think this is much better as then italian barrier we saw in the Italian topic, there wasn't even a white marking, just immediatly the barrier. That is asking for accidents.



What? Fi-Pi-Li?

Well, certainly, but Fi-Pi-Li isn't a motorway (just expressway).

Still, I'm only talking about the zones around the curves. In straight sections it's not a problem. 
But in this case (A35), there must be no problem because the concrete barrier is possible a bit taller than average, and the curve radius must be very big.


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## Qaabus

Verso said:


> Anything positive from the Netherlands?


Chris is being a bit melodramatic.  Not all roads in the country are in a permanent state of chaos. I had to commute 110km each way for a week a little while a ago. Took me 75 minutes in the morning and 70 in the evening.


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## Jeroen669

Depends on the location and time of course. Roads in provinces like Friesland, Groningen, Drenthe, Zeeland and Limburg are rarely jammed. However, I think over 300km traffic jam on motorways each morning is ridicilously much for a network with just about 2,300 kms motorway (of which >95% are build-up in rural areas).



Nephasto said:


> because the concrete barrier is possible a bit taller than average


It didn't seem so. I guess it was about one meter, I think. Low enough to climb on it.


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## go_leafs_go02

Yes. I was quite impressed by your highway standards. Signage is pretty good too on the main moterways (being the A-series of Highways).

I loved your variable speed limit signage that could be found in more urban areas. Those were very slick.

One thing I was quite surprised by though was the lack of shoulders on major roads. It only seemed to be on the expressways where they were found. Any other route, even if the speed limit was 100 km/h had no place to pull over onto a paved or gravel shoulder.

I'm North American, so thats just the standard I've come to expect anywhere. But I assume there are reasons roads are so narrow when they are 2 X 1 lanes in width.


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## Jeroen669

Why should there be shoulders on usual 2-lane roads? That's quite unusual, also for most of the other european countries. For the same amount of space you'd better build a small 2+1 or 2X2 profile


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## ChrisZwolle

*Chaos around Utrecht*
On the A2 towards Amsterdam happened an accident with 7 cars early morning. A total gridlock was the result in the region. Around 9.15 am, still 270km of queue existed.

An queue of 32km existed on the A2 between Waardenburg and Utrecht-Oog in Al. The A12 was fully jammed over 23km towards the west. The nearby A27 was jammed aswell, 17km southbound, and 22km northbound. On the A28, a 20km queue was the result of all motorways and other roads jammed, from Nijkerk to interchange Rijnsweerd.

Meanwhile, an accident near Deventer-Oost caused a 33km long queue between interchange Azelo (near Almelo) and Deventer-Oost. A car crashed here and was then overrun by a truck. 

On the A58, a truck had jackknifed, causing 15km of queue from both directions to the accident site. Between Moergestel and Hilvarenbeek, the right lane was closed. 

Around 8.30 am, there were 80 traffic jams with a total length of 432km.


----------



## TheCat

Jeroen669 said:


> Why should there be shoulders on usual 2-lane roads? That's quite unusual, also for most of the other european countries. For the same amount of space you'd better build a small 2+1 or 2X2 profile


Actually, I've had several occasions where I had to pull over on a 2-lane road, once just because I got lost and it was clear that continuing forward was pointless  But seriously, what if your car breaks down suddenly, and there is no shoulder? You're gonna block the only lane of traffic. Even in Israel, where I used to live, there are often shoulders on 2-lane roads. But I guess it's not as crucial as on major expressways.


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## Jeroen669

I think it's a waste of money. If there's no median, people can get over the other lane. But when there's really something wrong you'd better get your car off the road. Again, if you're adding driving lanes people can get overtake you safer, but it's a better use of space.

Some other trouble: people here drive more aggressive that in NA. So if there's room on the right they will use it for overtaking. Whether it's allowed or not. The same goes for bus lanes and stuff like that. So in a way it can make the road even unsafer...

I know in Germany on some rural 2-lane roads they put 'Mehrzweckstreifen' (I hope I spelled it well) on some Bundesstraßen. But those are quite small and not primarly meant as an emergency lane. They provide a space to use for slower traffic for letting overtake faster traffic.










On this road I even saw two overtaking cars in different direction, both overtaking a truck. It's that wide. But I thought german policy was to reconstruct these roads into a 2+1 profile.


----------



## go_leafs_go02

Here is an example of what almost all major roads in rural Ontario look like:










This is a very high quality job due to the concrete gutters and paved shoulders in the foreground., and very recent (and also a provincial job, not municipal level.
as for a normal standard:










Just a simple strip of gravel used to pull over in case of breakdown or if there is something on the road.



Jeroen669 said:


> Some other trouble: people here drive more aggressive that in NA. So if there's room on the right they will use it for overtaking. Whether it's allowed or not. The same goes for bus lanes and stuff like that. So in a way it can make the road even unsafer...


Its gravel, not a solid surface where its rather dangerous to drive on at a fast speed.


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## Jeroen669

go_leafs_go02 said:


> Its gravel, not a solid surface where its rather dangerous to drive on at a fast speed.


That's why I said "get off the road". In a lot of cases you can 'park' your car here also next to the road. Gravel is not that popular here, only on real small roads (with aren't wide enough for 2 vehicles passing each other). But some well maintained grass does the work too. (not before braking to a extreme low speed, of course, but that's just as your gravel example)


----------



## RawLee

Half-off topic:
This is a main road(national 1st class) here:








Its enough wide when you stop,if you close the door,and you are not with a truck


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## ChrisZwolle

*Huge traffic jam on A2 after crashed truck.*

An accident with a truck occurred on the A2 Eindhoven - Utrecht around 6 pm. The traffic jam growth was fenomenal, each minute, the queue growed with 1km. The A2 was already the scene of an incredible long traffic jam of 43km this morning. All motorways leading to Utrecht had a 30km long queue. 
The jams lasted long, around 10 am, there was still a 30km queue related to the accident on the A2, 4 motorways away. 

A map of the traffic jams. (Only the traffic jams related to the A2 incident are shown). Situation this morning around 8.30 am.








Over 150km of queue was directly related to this single incident.


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## ChrisZwolle

> *Extra lanes between Amsterdam and Almere*
> 
> The traffic problems between Amsterdam and Almere, a suburb of 200.000 which almost totally rely on Amsterdam with only one bridge connecting the two cities, should be solved with extra lanes. Transport minister Camiel Eurlings hopes to reach an agreement with regional governments this wednesday.
> 
> The NOS Media company manage to got the conceptagreement tuesday.
> 
> It concerns the motorways A1, A6 and A10. There are a lot of traffic jams on these roads, and they will only become worse if nothing happened on the roads, because Almere has the ambition to grow to 400.000 inhabitants.
> A tunnel connecting the A6 and A9 north of the Lake Naarden recieved a lot of resistance.
> 
> That's why the government wants to widen the existing motorways. The construction should begin in 2009, according to the NOS.


The A1 is now only 2x3 lanes + 1 rushhour lane which can be changed in the rushhour direction, and has an AADT of 200.000. It is usually impossible to travel here without traffic jams in and outside rushhours. Another problem is the movable bridge on this busy motorway. Sometimes it opens, immediatly causing kilometers of queue.


----------



## x-type

we had a shit at Zagreb bypass this morning, awfull accident (3 dead, 7 injured; 2 trucks and 4 cars) caused by speed and fog. and in other direction at same place - roadworks. so one direction had to go threw city.

btw, A35 looks great! i just cannot understand this changing the lanes (so cannot you neither :lol. maybe a lot of traffic exits at that exit and a lot od traffic is coming, but not many vehicles are keeping going straight - that is only logical explanation for me 
and one more thing i dont like - not many far destinations at the tables. ok, it is probably normal because in the Netherlands you have a lot of parallel motorways and interchanges, but i miss them somehow


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ This distance table is quite extreme. it's not usually to see such short distances only. Usually there is always a destination in the 50 - 100km range on important motorways which aren't a dead end on the coast or so. 

That's because we use the RFP (Remote Focal Point) system, which always shows the last major city along the motorway, no matter how far. That's why Maastricht is signed over 200km, immediatly south of Amsterdam already. 

By the way, people say 200km is one hell of a distance here. (i consider it a two hour drive if there are no traffic jams).


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## x-type

cool system. we have signs that lead to first large city along the motorway, or maybe 2 of them (for instance, at Zagreb-Split you allways have Split written in that direction, but also you have other larger cities such as Zadar or Sibenik). when there is no more large cities along the motorway till border, we have border crossing name written, so sometimes you can find really silly villages as main destinations written :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ that last thing is quite Polish. Once borders dissapear (like in the EU-Schengen zone) those tiny villages aren't important anymore. Nobody wants to travel to those tiny villages, especially not from 600km away (like in Poland). They better sign the border only a few exits before the actual border crossing. 

In the Netherlands, we usually don't sign borders at all from far away (except on the A7, where the border village of Nieuweschans is signed from Groningen City, some 50km).


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## Ka-8

Chriszwolle said:


> ^^ that last thing is quite Polish. Once borders dissapear (like in the EU-Schengen zone) those tiny villages aren't important anymore. Nobody wants to travel to those tiny villages, especially not from 600km away (like in Poland). They better sign the border only a few exits before the actual border crossing.


What does it have to do with Poland?? :nuts: Every country has it's bordertowns/villages. Compare Klazienaveen to Slubice and this comparison looks way better for Poland if you write about it. Independently of the Schengen zone this is still the border so there is a purpose to put in on the signs. Take Venlo for example... it's one of rather not especially important locations but well known by almost every driver that there is the border, so this is the reason to being present on the signs.

If You mean that in Poland often markings show distances / directions to tiny villages that are located by main roads, for me it is more convenient. It does tell me the location and distance to crossing of certain roads, which for me is way convenient than showing direction to a large city e.g. Wroclaw or Poznan.


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## ChrisZwolle

I meant that last thing. Signing some Lithuanian border town 800kms away is nuts, no other countries does that, and that's for a reason.


----------



## Ka-8

Chriszwolle said:


> I meant that last thing. Signing some Lithuanian border town 800kms away is nuts, no other countries does that, and that's for a reason.


Well, for me it is better option, which is more convenient for me. I prefer to know the exact places and work on the route taken on my own instead of just following the sign e.g. "Stuttgart". Sometimes, especially for professional drivers it has huge importance, as e.g. in Germany you can take two different routes to deliver the cargo. If it's Saturday during the summer holidays period, simple following the signs directing to the large city may be very expensive while of two motorways you can take (with similar distances driven) one is closed for the heavy transport on Saturday, and on the second one lorries may drive without restriction to make an extra turnover for the haulier on that day.

For a no-brainer navigation sign Wroclaw in Germany may be better, but for more advanced and detailed decision on which route to take, the version where one can choose to drive to Wroclaw through A18 Olszyna, or A4 Zgorzelec/Goerlitz is way better.


----------



## x-type

Chriszwolle said:


> I meant that last thing. Signing some Lithuanian border town 800kms away is nuts, no other countries does that, and that's for a reason.


well, we dont have such extrems. we have those border villages up to 50 km max far from border.
exception is A3. why? because all way the A3 there were signs to Belgrade (while we were in Yugoslavia). then came war and all the connections with Serbia were erased, and at all signs Belgrade was replaced with Lipovac, which is a border village that nobody heard for before the war. :lol: as there were signs to Belgrade in Zagreb, too, those were also replaced with Lipovac, which is about 300 km far.
now you cannot see Lipovac signs along A3 anymore, you can see Slavonski Brod and 'upanja which are larger cities. befor border you probably can see Lipovac, or maybe Bajakovo (which is actually name of broder crossing, not Lipovac). but at access roads to motorways you can sometimes still find Lipovac because A3 is better known as Lipovac motorway.


----------



## RawLee

We sign capitols or countries:lol: 








And when we have border town names,then we also have the nearest bigger city on the other side of the border too.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I made two short video's today of two bridges across the IJssel river near the city of Kampen, a small city just north of my hometown Zwolle.

*N764 Mill Bridge (Molenbrug)*
The first video contains the Mill bridge, which used to carry the N50 across it. Now it is replaced with the higher bridge on the second video. 

*N50 Island Bridge (Eilandbrug)*http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqfPAsRuyeA


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Jeroen669 said:


> Technicly it isn't wider than the usual 2X4 motorway streches, because there's an emergency lane missing here. (5th lane is sort of an rush hour lane) Imo the A16 at Ridderkerk (4X4) is way more impressive.


They turned the left emergency lane into a full fifth lane some years ago. However, the fifth lane can be closed when it's quiet, but it's open most of daytime.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Video: A12 Utrecht*






I took a video of the A12 motorway in Utrecht. I finally fixed my camera so the video isn't blue anymore. It had to do something with automatic white balance settings.

Image of the motorway;


----------



## Nephasto

Chriszwolle said:


> They turned the left emergency lane into a full fifth lane some years ago. However, the fifth lane can be closed when it's quiet, but it's open most of daytime.


Was it 2x4 with emergency lanes in the middle (besides from the usual ones, on the exterior)?

2x4 sections in Portugal (well, they are quite rare) and in Spain too don't have emergency lane in the middle. Just the usual on the right.
It's ok I think. For more than 4, than yes, maybe emergency lane in the left would be advisable... But still, it's always good to have extra emergency lanes!


----------



## CborG

Nephasto said:


> Was it 2x4 with emergency lanes in the middle (besides from the usual ones, on the exterior)?


Yes it was, until 2003. You can still stop on the left side in case of emergency, i wouldn't recommend it though because they are very short 'parking harbours'. You can hardly accellerate out of them when it's busy.


----------



## xlchris

Terrible news yeasterday! A 17(?) year old boy caught by a truck when he was helping someone on the moterway. His father saw it all happen in front of him. And a few hours after that, a women caught by a truck, she was walking on the moterway????


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## ChrisZwolle

Kind of his own fault. Which idiot goes walking on a motorway or near the driving lanes? That's like suicide.


----------



## xlchris

^He want to help someone, but he was stupid, to go out on the passengers side, and then walk to the drivers side (his dad), !!


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## Jeroen669

It's not completely his own fault, I think. The driver should have at least warned him, because he has a responsability for the pessengers. After all, the boy isn't the one with a driving licence.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A short video of the Alphen Aquaduct in the recently build N11, a semi motorway, but it has sadly enough an expensive aquaduct with traffic lights at either end. The N11 is a faster connection between Leiden and Utrecht, people can avoid the traffic jams on the A12 between Zoetermeer (Sweet Lake City) and Den Haag (The Hague).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A video from the N14 national road near The Hague. During a short traffic jam, i included some info about the road. Hope you like it, the video is 8,5 minute long.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A10-Zuid (South) - the highrise section of Amsterdam*

This video is 4:30 minutes long, and goes from Interchange De Nieuwe Meer to Interchange Amstel. It travels through one of the main highrise sections of Amsterdam; the zuidas (South Axe).


----------



## Qaabus

Some nice videos.  
But you really should stop translating geographical names.


----------



## SmarterChild

May we see photos of some roads in zeeland, like the A58 and some of the bridges over the schelde?


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## Jeroen669

The duck at the end almost caught you, didn't he?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Oil spill caused major delays in Rotterdam*
A truck tanker lost oil, which formed a track along the A4, A20, A13 and N209 roads. This caused traffic jams all day long, and a bad reachability of Rotterdam Airport. Some lanes had to be closed, causing over 40.000 hours of delays, costing the society about 700.000 euro's, not counting the costs of longer detour fuel usage, traffic personel costs, and removing the oil by the DOT.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> *Only 11% of cartaxes for road projects*
> 
> A survey by Bovag-RAI found out that from the 16,6 billion euro's of traffic taxes, only 1,9 billion is actually invested into the Dutch roads. Therefor, 11,4% of all taxes related to carusage and carposession, like VAT, road taxes, fuel taxes, environmental taxes etc etc is really invested into the improvements of roads.
> The Bovag-RAI writes that in the paper "Mobility in numbers" 2007. This year, taxes raise to 17,3 billion euros. About 2 billion of that will be invested into roads. "Let the government be clear; if you want to raise taxes for extra income, don't say it's because of the environment or maintenance of roads.", a spokesman of Bovag said. The new numbers also show the real price of one liter euro 95 gas was 58 cents, while drivers pay 1,50 euro per liter.


Nothing new, ofcourse. This has been the case in many years. Nobody cares not all road-related taxes are being invested in public transportation, environment or road improvement, but 11% is extremely low.  

Budgets for public transport & roads are structurally too low, year in, year out, hence the overcrowded trains and roads. 

No, we rather invest in megalomanic infrastructure projects, like the freighttrain route "Betuweroute", and the new HSL, which are combined about 250km long, but costs are now already 12 - 13 billion, and is still rising. hno:


----------



## Euromast

There is widening of A12 going on in EDE.
Wanna ask one thing is there a HSL in Holland? or planned

Although;-) this section is only for dutch highways.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

HSL is almost completed (but delayed several time) from Amsterdam to Antwerp. It is being criticized by having exorbitant high costs for the small amount of time people win from Amsterdam to Paris.

It costs over 7 billion for only 85km of new railroad.

But yes, this is not the place to discuss that.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another extremely busy morning.

100 traffic jams, totalling 450 kilometers.
8.30 am:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Current traffic situation: 99 reports, of which are 95 traffic jams totalling 386 kilometers. hno:


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## ChrisZwolle

max 110 traffic jams & 465 km of queue


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## kingsdl76

I think Dutch highways are really superb. They're well built and they look nice. I also love the bike and pedestrian designated streets that run parallel to the highway.......De baan goed gedaane mensen!! kay: (I'm sorry if I didnt write that correctly)


----------



## Jeroen669

That's quite funny. I think you mean something like 'you did your job well!' 'De baan' however also means something like 'the lane'.


----------



## Verso

Some nice videos on the previous page, Chris. I especially like the A10 in Amsterdam and the 10-lane A4; feels like in the US, but better pavement.  And interesting zebras.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ thanks 

Another extremely busy rushhour, in the last 2 days, we had 3 rushhours with over 450km of queue. This evening topped out at 100 traffic jams and totalling 460km. There are no special reasons for this, the weather was okay, and only a few major accidents. (25km jammed on the A50 Arnhem - Eindhoven).

*Number of traffic jams:*









*Total queue length:*


----------



## pmaciej7

A50 near Arnhem is the place, where two years ago i lost two hours because of stop&go drive. And i can't tell why. All cars suddenly disappeard between two small exits (not interchanges with other motorways). I don't understand it.


----------



## kingsdl76

Jeroen669 said:


> That's quite funny. I think you mean something like 'you did your job well!' 'De baan' however also means something like 'the lane'.


Hahahaha....I knew that I probably wrote it wrong. Thanks for the correction.  I was trying to say 'good job people.'


----------



## Jeroen669

pmaciej7 said:


> A50 near Arnhem is the place, where two years ago i lost two hours because of stop&go drive. And i can't tell why. All cars suddenly disappeard between two small exits (not interchanges with other motorways). I don't understand it.


Two hours? That's extremely much. However, I think you mean exit Schaarsbergen/Árnhem-Noord. A lot of people exit there to enter the city.


----------



## pmaciej7

Jeroen669 said:


> Two hours? That's extremely much. However, I think you mean exit Schaarsbergen/Árnhem-Noord. A lot of people exit there to enter the city.


No, that's not Schaarsbergen. I was moving in the opposite direction from Apeldoorn to 'S-Hertogenbosch. Jam started at Knoppunt Watenberg (now i see it is next to Schaarsbergen) and finished at, as i think, Ravenstein. And it all happened on thursday at 8-10 PM.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ A lot of A50 traffic exits at A73. (knooppunt Ewijk).


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## pmaciej7

As i see, A50 between Kn. Valburg and Kn. Ewijk is the only way to cross Waal river (and then Maas river) passing by Arnhem and Nijmegen. And it's only 2 lanes wide... Next Waal bridges are 20 km away (N323) and 10 km away (A325 ending in the center of Nijmegen). Great conditions to jam. This jam was longer than to Kn. Ewijk, I remember we crossed Mass with the speed 15km/h. How i hated Netherlands in this moment... 

I traveled from Szczecin to Brussels and having 3 different routes (Hannover-Dortmund-Koln-Aachen-Brussel; Hannover-Dortmund-Venlo-Antwerpen-Brussel;Hannover-Osnabruck-Apeldoorn-Breda-Antwerpen-Brussel), i chose the longest and the worst.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Oh for the love of God who designed this brand new bridge near Eindhoven? :bash:


----------



## KIWIKAAS

Once it gets som grafiti on it it should be better. Get tagging boys.

Yeah. Bloody awful design


----------



## x-type

it's really ugly. looks like something postcommunistic


----------



## go_leafs_go02

when was that bridge built? 1970 something?

wow..ugly!


----------



## Koesj

go_leafs_go02 said:


> when was that bridge built? 1970 something?
> 
> wow..ugly!


Just a few months ago hno:


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Oh, come on, guys! In the USA and Canada there is a lot of rail road bridges that look even uglier than this


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## ChrisZwolle

*A2 near Utrecht*




Also a section of the A12 near Utrecht.

I hope to shoot a video of the N7 expressway in Groningen tomorrow :cheers:
I don't know if it will work out, since my friend has a new car, i don't know if i can put the camera on the dashboard properly.


----------



## Verso

^ Nice city bypass! Although I don't like those curves at the beginning. Dutch motorways look quite expensive/qualitative.


----------



## vari k.

wat was the top speed you guys went in that video?


----------



## KIWIKAAS

Verso said:


> ^ Nice city bypass! Although I don't like those curves at the beginning. Dutch motorways look quite expensive/qualitative.


Are you talking about those bits in the construction zone where the road goes a bit to the left then back to the right?


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## ChrisZwolle

vari karin said:


> wat was the top speed you guys went in that video?


Not very fast. The A2 section is a construction site, mostly 100km/h or lower. The A12 section has an 80km/h limit ( hno: ) with automated stretch control, which means they take a pic of your plate, and when you exit the motorway, they calculate if you drove too fast. 100% guaranteed fine if you drive 1km too fast. There are multiple stretch controls in the Netherlands, and it has nothing to do with traffic safety or air quality, just easy cashing for the police.


----------



## Verso

KIWIKAAS said:


> Are you talking about those bits in the construction zone where the road goes a bit to the left then back to the right?


Yes. So it's just a construction site? Good.


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## ChrisZwolle

The detours they make in case of an accident or motorway closure are sometimes ridiculous... They insist people keep on the motorway instead of crawling through local roads. Take a look at this;



> A37	Hoogeveen - Knooppunt Holsloot
> ter hoogte van knp. Hoogeveen
> [!]omleiding ingesteld in verband met ongevalsonderzoek
> Verkeer richting Duitsland volg Groningen (A28 en A7)


It says; 
A37 Hoogeveen - Knooppunt Holsloot
at interchange Hoogeveen
detour in effect because of an accident investigation
Traffic in the direction Germany follow Groningen (A28 and A7)

When you are travelling to the area of Meppen (where most traffic on the A37 is heading for), this means you don't have to drive 50km via the normal route, but 166 kilometer via Groningen and Leer :nuts:

That's an increase of over 300% of route length! And it's not like the A37 is a busy motorway so local roads can't take it. At night, like now, the motorway there is virtually empty. This motorway has the lowest AADT of all motorways, around 7200 vehicles per day...


----------



## rick1016

Nice highways.

EDIT: Chris, where's Zwolle?


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## ChrisZwolle

rick1016 said:


> Nice highways.
> 
> EDIT: Chris, where's Zwolle?


Here is Zwolle






:lol:

nah, just kidding. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwolle


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## sjon

nice video chris.

it's gonna be a big highway for european standars there.
P.S I live less than 1 km from that ugly soundwall in Maaarssen


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## pmaciej7

PL: Zwolle około 99 tys. mieszkańców. and: Ludność (2005) 111 947 
FR: Au 1er juin 2005 Zwolle comptait 110 947 habitants.
RU: Зволле (нидерл. Zwolle) По состоянию на 1 июня 2005 года население составляло 112 460 жителей. 
FIN: Zwolle Vuonna 2006 siellä oli 113 668 asukasta.
SP: Zwolle labon belödanis 114 544 (2006).
Esperanto: Zwolle har 114.544 invånare (januari 2007)
DE: Zwolle, das im März 2007 den 115.000. Einwohner zählen konnte.
NL: Zwolle De gemeente telt 115.144 inwoners (1 juni 2007) 

Still growing. Is this city made of rubber or what? 

Edit: this is consistent: Polish wikipedia says in one article: *99 tys* (=99.000) and *111.947*.


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## ChrisZwolle

Unlike other countries, Dutch cities can check their population anytime they want, it's always up to date, we don't need censuses or something. And Zwolle is still growing, 135.000 in 2020 projections. Not a very large city though, but it is seen as the gateway to the north. The only way to Groningen or Friesland by train is through Zwolle.

Traffic is increasing quite fast too. There is a large commute to Zwolle, because of it's regional function (unlike cities as the larger Apeldoorn or Almere, which are more suburban).


----------



## Rebasepoiss

I have a feeling that in 20 years, the Netherlands will become one huge suburb with endless traffic jams...


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Today there was 497 km of queue around 1800 hrs, and that's only the motorways... There is a lot of non-reported traffic jams inside cities. 

The radio usually only reports traffic jams over 10km on days like this.


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## Verso

I'd seriously consider using PT, if I were a Dutch. Isn't it effective too?


----------



## Qwert

Rebasepoiss said:


> I have a feeling that in 20 years, the Netherlands will become one huge suburb with endless traffic jams...


I've read an article in daily Slovak Pravda which says that many Dutch pensioners are buying houses in Southern Slovakia, the article was about village Bulharské. They say they feel more comfotable here than in Netherland which is overpopulated with heavy traffic and high prices in comparation with Slovakia. So maybe in 20 years will be in Netherland less people than now.:lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Verso said:


> I'd seriously consider about using PT, if I were a Dutch. Isn't it effective too?


No, the problem is too big to handle for public transportation. 

Firstly, almost no capacity was added since 1985, while the population grew with 2 million, and more and more new neighborhoods were build away from jobs. Hence the huge traffic flows.

Secondly, a lot of people live in numerous villages, which used to be farm villages, but now working completely in the nearby larger city. This is too widespread to effectively serve with public transportation. 

Public transportation handles 10 times less traffic as roads. It already has to face problems with a 7% growth rate, and it already costs 2 billion annually, the same budget for road, but only 10% of the traffic, hence the expensive public transportation. If you even will have 5 times less traffic in PT as on roads, it means ridership will increase over 500%. 

This is totally impossible to handle for public transportation. Trains are already overcrowded, and Dutch railways are among the busiest in the world, and faces numerous problems with the current 7% growth, it needs huge investment. You can imagine how extremely much money it will cost if ridership increases with 500%!

It means we have to rethink the whole concept of public transportation. It would costs tens of billions of euro's more annually, something we just don't have the money for. Unlike eastern european countries, we are not a net reciever of EU funds. Our resources are much less than eastern european countries. 

The problem is job locations are too centered, while it's unnecessary with current communications, to build high density office parks (however it does create a nice skyline  ).


----------



## Verso

^ I know PT can't be effective for everyone, but what about for those living in cities? You don't need a car within cities. I love driving car and I reach my faculty in just 10 minutes, but then I can wait up to an hour to get a free parking. And even in the garage I usually have to search quite long to find a free parking space. And pay for it after I leave.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Buses are usually very slow. I calculated if i would go by bus, it would take me 7,5 workweek of extra time anually, that's just unacceptable. Though a lot of people take their bicycle to work. People tend to take their bikes for trips up to 7,5km. With the increasing number suburban areas away from the job locations, car-riderships increases dramatically. And last but not least, it rains pretty often here, so people logically take their car moreoften when it rains. The total amount of traffic jams is sometimes 2 times higher then normal when it rains. 

And also, almost every 100.000+ city functions as a regional center for the rural (but not farmland) area's, creating quite large flows towards the city, and the road system in the cities often date back from the time there were almost no cars. There are always huge flows towards the motorways and suburban areas away from the city centers. (like the suburban area i live in, it attracts way more traffic as other neighborhoods).

Another interesting fact is, that the number of one-person-households, and households with two people earning money from a job, increases, so more and more people have 2 cars, because mrs. works in place A and mr. works in place B. They both live in place C. You do the math...


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## Verso

^ Yeah, that's why I don't use PT much.


----------



## 54°26′S 3°24′E

Chriszwolle said:


> Buses are usually very slow. I calculated if i would go by bus, it would take me 7,5 workweek of extra time anually, that's just unacceptable. Though a lot of people take their bicycle to work. People tend to take their bikes for trips up to 7,5km. With the increasing number suburban areas away from the job locations, car-riderships increases dramatically. And last but not least, it rains pretty often here, so people logically take their car moreoften when it rains. The total amount of traffic jams is sometimes 2 times higher then normal when it rains.
> 
> And also, almost every 100.000+ city functions as a regional center for the rural (but not farmland) area's, creating quite large flows towards the city, and the road system in the cities often date back from the time there were almost no cars. There are always huge flows towards the motorways and suburban areas away from the city centers. (like the suburban area i live in, it attracts way more traffic as other neighborhoods).
> 
> Another interesting fact is, that the number of one-person-households, and households with two people earning money from a job, increases, so more and more people have 2 cars, because mrs. works in place A and mr. works in place B. They both live in place C. You do the math...


You would believe that a area-constrained country like the Netherlands was planning a bit more carefully instead of creating a US-like suburbia, which make efficient public transport so much harder. In Norway, densification is pursued in urban areas rather than increasing the city areas.


----------



## SmarterChild

Chriszwolle said:


> Buses are usually very slow. I calculated if i would go by bus, it would take me 7,5 workweek of extra time anually, that's just unacceptable.


Dutch authorities should look more into BRT, I realize space can be tight for building separate lanes in build up areas (though dedicated bus lines can often be combined bicycle lanes) but how are they planning for future cities and neighbourhoods?


----------



## angeladevi

sigh.......another 500 kilometers of traffic jams this evening......... :-(


----------



## KIWIKAAS

54°26′S 3°24′E;16364083 said:


> You would believe that a area-constrained country like the Netherlands was planning a bit more carefully instead of creating a US-like suburbia, which make efficient public transport so much harder. In Norway, densification is pursued in urban areas rather than increasing the city areas.


The Netherlands has very stricht zoning and development rules. There is no US style suburban sprawl in the Netherlands. Dutch cities are generally dense in nature. It's the inter-urban commuting that causes the most jams. When travelling within a Dutch city traffic is generally reasonably light. It's the connectors to the national highway network that get jammed up and of course the highway system itsself.


----------



## Jeroen669

54°26′S 3°24′E;16364083 said:


> You would believe that a area-constrained country like the Netherlands was planning a bit more carefully instead of creating a US-like suburbia, which make efficient public transport so much harder.


New living areas are build up quite wide, indeed. The demands are getting bigger, though. More families with children don't accept anymore to live in some small houses or apartments, for a lot of money, in the old parts of the city. They want nice places to live with enough space for a garden, green areas in the neighbourhood, safe roads and last but not least: parking. That causes the lesser density and so the difficulty to make good PT. But that's just the fact, we got to deal with it. 

Still PT is well-used here, and not as bad as some suggest. About 15% uses PT. Don't forget the influence of the huge bicycle system here. In other countries they would use PT a lot more on distances we would easily do on bike. But most bus and intercity train connections are relatively fast. At least, busdrivers do everything they can to handle the driving times (some of them drive quite aggressively), but it's quite difficult sometimes because of e.g. round-abouts, bad adjusted traffic lights, speed bumps, etc...


----------



## Joshapd

I take the bus every day and I don't really have any problem. It is not like PT is in a bad state here, I find it pretty good actually (at least the area I travel).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Jeroen669 said:


> New living areas are build up quite wide, indeed. The demands are getting bigger, though.


Not really, i doubt if the current VINEX neighborhoods are actually larger then 80's neighborhoods. 

Otherwise then suggested, Dutch VINEX neighborhoods are nothing like American suburban sprawl.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Joshapd said:


> I take the bus every day and I don't really have any problem. It is not like PT is in a bad state here, I find it pretty good actually (at least the area I travel).


The bus is quite okay for suburban-to-central station-drives. Taking the bicycle is often faster though. But unlike American cities, much of the jobs aren't in the historical center, but on industrial parks or office parks near a major road, with too many traffic lights. 

I don't get it, some roads are very congested, yet they continue to build new offices along it. It only worsens the problems.


----------



## Joshapd

^^
True and most new neighbourhoods are connected to PT anyway, it's the problem that it's hardly used. But as far as I know 80's neighborhoods are pretty dense, at least the one I lived in.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

When PT is slower than a car then PT is just badly planned and that's it. If you look at Stockholm for example that has suburbs with quite low density, you can see that PT is still widely used and it's faster than a car. That's how it should be everywhere. I'm not denieing that there are jobs where you just need a car, but when one just goes to the office in the morning and comes back in the evening, why would he/she need a car?


----------



## RawLee

^^PT is only faster when more people(meaning cars in this context) use the roads than their capacity,thus creating jams. If the road is empty,no PT can beat a car. Optimal would be equal speed,but that means there are jams. There will be jams as long as there are cars,because when people see empty roads,they will change to cars. So it start again. So in the end,only a jammed city's PT can beat the cars.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Rebasepoiss said:


> When PT is slower than a car then PT is just badly planned and that's it. If you look at Stockholm for example that has suburbs with quite low density, you can see that PT is still widely used and it's faster than a car. That's how it should be everywhere. I'm not denieing that there are jobs where you just need a car, but when one just goes to the office in the morning and comes back in the evening, why would he/she need a car?


Here they slow down the speed of cars, to make PT look faster, however it´s speed doesn´t increase.

Buses have free lanes, right-of-way at traffic lights, but are still slower. They don't take the fastest route, because the buse logically wants to serve people, so a longer route is taken to serve as many potential as possible. 

In my opinion, sometimes it looks buses are only made for suburb-to-central-station routes, and not for suburbs-to-job-locations routes. No wonder why nobody uses the bus. 

suburb-to-suburb is also not a very good option often, because you have to go to the central bus/trainstation first. 

In my possible bus route, i have to walk 20 minutes to a bus station first from my job. Outside rushhours, i am already home then. From my suburb to the largest office park 8km away is 45 minutes by bus. And to the other large industrial park is also 45 minutes.

But that's not only it, you have to take the time into account you have to leave early to make it in time on your job, to compare correctly with the bicycle or car. You can easily add another 10 - 15minutes then to the total travel time. 

If i have to start on my job at 9.00 am, i have to leave at 7.50 am. thats 1 hour and 10 minutes... If i go by car, i can leave at 8.35 am. That is 45 minutes time difference *one-way*! So it's just a waste of your spare time. Ofcourse, that doesn't count for everyone, but for enough people to see overcrowded roads.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

^^ And that's what I mean by "badly planned".



RawLee said:


> PT is only faster when more people(meaning cars in this context) use the roads than their capacity,thus creating jams. If the road is empty,no PT can beat a car. Optimal would be equal speed,but that means there are jams. There will be jams as long as there are cars,because when people see empty roads,they will change to cars. So it start again. So in the end,only a jammed city's PT can beat the cars.


Yes, true, but within the city it's almost impossible and absolutely ridiculous to build enough motorways or wide roads for jams to disappear. Of course, if you live outside the city and work outside the city, PT is no solution.

And then there's the climate issue....I think it's pretty difficult for dutchies to say that it doesn't matter.


----------



## Jeroen669

Rebasepoiss said:


> And that's what I mean by "badly planned".


Yeah, but how would you solute it? There's not enough demand for a more dense (imo it's already quite dense) busnetwork. You need to concentrate pessengers to keep it payable. That's also one of the reasons why we don't have much urban rail. The current railways take a lot of the demands for people who want to travel by PT, even on distances of just a few km's. The number of railway stations is growing, and overtakes more and more the function of local bus services. That's a good thing, imo. Most people use a bike to go to the nearest station, so travel times become lesser with those new stations.


----------



## RawLee

^^A lot of tramlines,with 52m long trams?


----------



## Rebasepoiss

Jeroen669 said:


> Yeah, but how would you solute it?


Instead of dozens of buslines going straight to the centre, I'd suggest buses taking people to the nearest tram or train stop and from there to the centre.


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## Jeroen669

You don't get it. City centres are mostly good to get to with PT. The main trainstations in Holland are almost always very near the centre: let's say, less then 10 minutes walking. The problem is that a lot of people simply don't work in city centres, or people live in a quite rural places which are bad connected with PT (or even worse: both). Those are the problems which makes PT unattractive for most of the people so they take, despite of all the traffic jams, still the car... (or bike)


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## Verso

Frankly, if anyone solves this problem, I give him a gold medal.


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## Koesj

The 'Bundled Deconcentration' housing and community program, as was proposed in the 1960's, created a high number of viable medium density habitable areas outside of major cities and into the former agricultural parts of the country. This was coupled with a _highly_ ambitious freeway plan, way more than the 2300~km there is now. 

The housing part was executed, the freeway part only partially. Afterwards, politicians blamed underdeveloped PT to rising traffic problems and sought to overemphasize PT in spending bills. This while the existing PT network was pretty much functional in the old city-centric environment but could never be adapted to the highly deconcentrated living/working environment that began to emerge. 

As seen in certain US cities, where grid-like freeway systems (or at least an attempt to create such a thing) exist, suburban to suburban commutes (for the lack of a better description of what is happening in Holland) are probably best served by a very dense road network. The belated realization of such a network is, at the present time, a politically unacceptable option. Until the harsh reality of a gridlocked economy sets in of course, which should have happened yesterday rather than tomorrow.


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## LtBk

Looks like Netherlands made the same mistake of creating autocentric sprawl like what the U.S did except for wide freeways.


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## radi6404

Chriszwolle said:


> *A2 near Utrecht*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also a section of the A12 near Utrecht.
> 
> I hope to shoot a video of the N7 expressway in Groningen tomorrow :cheers:
> I don't know if it will work out, since my friend has a new car, i don't know if i can put the camera on the dashboard properly.


For the sake of god, could you pleeeeeeeease choose some mroe neutral music? I aktually want watch the videos.


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## Verso

If I were in charge, no one would have to put up with insulting. :cheers:


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## CborG

radi6404 said:


> For the sake of god, could you pleeeeeeeease choose some mroe neutral music? I aktually want watch the videos.


mute?


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## Koesj

LtBk said:


> Looks like Netherlands made the same mistake of creating autocentric sprawl like what the U.S did except for wide freeways.


Possibly, except for the fact that in this case the problem would be expanding existing smaller communities with more housing to alleviate big city-problems while forgetting/not being able to add extra labour in those places. The end result might be considered similar to US situations but it started in an entirely different way.


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## ChrisZwolle

A9 Badhoevedorp - Diemen 60 minutes delay
A4-A10-A1 Schiphol - Muiderberg 92 minutes delay
A10 Coentunnel: 46 minutes delay.

Thank god for our good infrastructure :cheers:


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## Des

Hopefully they finally start acting on it...

Look forward to the new A2 between Amsterdam and Utrecht.


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## ChrisZwolle

The following map contains the sections which are structurally jammed during _some point_ of the day. (Not all at the same time ofcourse). Other sections can be jammed too in case of incidents.


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## ChrisZwolle

Someone ordered a truck?


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## x-type

me. but i don't know which one is mine


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## ChrisZwolle

The trucks are a little bit delayed. (i guess you know what the below pic means)


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## x-type

let's check my dutch:

A28 from Amersfoort to Zwolle between exit 't Harde and exit Zwolle south car accident. 7km traffic jam waiting time: 101 min


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## CborG

Some updates of the widening of the A2:

A2 Tunnel Utrecht:



the runner said:


> Het zand wordt al tegen de tunnelbak aangegooid.
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> De kant richting het spoor wordt ook gereed gemaakt voor de bouw van de tunnel.


A2 's Hertogenbosch



ViaHaaren form dutch highway forum said:


> De aanleg van de oostelijke parallelbaan van de A2 van Rosmalen tot in knp. Empel door mijn stagebedrijf Gebr. van Kessel.
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> De eerste laag STAB komt vers uit de machine. Merk op dat alleen de uitvoerder (en fotograaf ) geen oranje broek aan hebben.
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> Tandemwals en drieroller walsen het eerste baantje, op de achtergrond McDonalds Rosmalen.
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> Scania-vrachtwagen en de Vögele Super 1900-asfaltmachine leggen het asfalt.
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> Alle walsen op een rij, eerst de bandenwals die het asfalt goed knedend verdicht, vervolgens de tandemwals en daarna de drieroller. De heftige regen van gisteren zorgt voor een mysterieus effect omdat die voor stoomvorming zorgt. Gelukkig gaat hij van de snelweg af.
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> Deze laag-bij-de-grondse foto van de walsen in de stoom van de regen op het asfalt vind ik zeer geslaagd!  Rechts een waterwagen om de watertanks van de walsen bij te vullen en de koplampen van de file op de A2. Weet je toch waarvoor je bezig bent.
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> Nog een keer de walsen in de stoom.
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> Asfalteren brengt behoorlijk wat drukte mee!
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> Foto van de eerste baan, genomen vanonder de nieuwe fly-over Waalwijk>Utrecht.
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> Deze foto vind ik een absolute topper, met zowel de asfalt als het viaduct in aanbouw erop. En natuurlijk de stoomvorming.  Merk links de grote verschillen in het asfalt op doordat de bandenwals erop is gereden en terug is gestoken.
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> De machine spreidt hier een verse A2 uit. :mrgreen:
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> De machine met vrachtwagen in perspectief. Precies in de bak het bord voor de A59 richting Waalwijk.
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> De hele eerste laag zit er in! Nog net op de foto de toekomstige splitsing A2/A59 in knp. Empel.


A2 around Eindhoven:

pics here: http://www.dse.nl/~koef/jalbum/A2-Eindhoven/2007-Week44/index.html 

A4 around Halsteren almost finished (opening dec 15th)


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## Des

Found this image of the new A2 upgrade and tunnel near Utrecht:










Is it really going to be 3-4-4-3 lanes? That would be a huge upgrade from 2x3 now to 2x7 then...


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## Koesj

^^^^

It will be 2-3-3-2, I gather the render is supposed to be the south side where extra pre-weaving lanes are added towards Oudenrijn interchange.


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## ChrisZwolle

To be frank, i think 10 lanes are barely enough to support all future traffic from Vinex Neighborhood Leidsche Rijn (future population 80.000). According to models, 80.000 people (approximatly 40.000 households) produce about 200.000 traffic movements per day. Ofcourse, they won't be all on the A2 or outside the neighborhood, but it is like adding another large city to an already overcrowded motorway that needs 2x5 lanes with current traffic. 

I kind of hope they will upgrade and extend the N230 to a motorway/expressway between A12 and A27. Such a large neighborhood has an impact on the whole region, traffic-wise.


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## ChrisZwolle

It's been a while since i've made some pics, so i decided to take a trip to the far north: Friesland or Fryslân as locals say. Friesland is a different kind of Netherlands, since they are speaking their own language (although everybody speaks Dutch too), and there are a lot of crazy village names, which are also sometimes hard for the Dutch to pronounciate. 

*N359 Lemmer - Workum - Bolsward - Leeuwarden*










First, the N359, a 64 kilometer motorroad, with a speed limit of 100 kilometer per hour. This goes through a beautiful part of Friesland; Gaasterland. A new Aquaduct (Galamadammen Aquaduct) has just been finished a couple a days ago. Some typical Dutch landscapes are seen, although it was a bit hazy sometimes. 

*>>> N359 - 105 pics<<<*


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## ChrisZwolle

*For N359 pics see last post on previous page*


*N31 Leeuwarden - Drachten*










The N31 is a national road controlled by the national government. It is one of the main transport axis in Friesland, and has just been widened to 2x2 lanes, but not with emergency lanes. Speed limit is 100km/h, although generally people tend to drive 120km/h on this semi-motorway. It starts at the end of the N359 serie, and goes by Leeuwarden, the capital of Friesland, and heads for Drachten, another larger city in the province.

*>>> N31 - 49 pics <<<*


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## Tom 958

Hey, what's the deal with this?










Does it open at 8:00, or is it open 24 hours?:?



Chriszwolle said:


> *For N359 pics see last post on previous page*
> 
> 
> *N31 Leeuwarden - Drachten*
> 
> The N31 is a national road controlled by the national government. It is one of the main transport axis in Friesland, and has just been widened to 2x2 lanes, but not with emergency lanes. Speed limit is 100km/h, although generally people tend to drive 120km/h on this semi-motorway. It starts at the end of the N359 serie, and goes by Leeuwarden, the capital of Friesland, and heads for Drachten, another larger city in the province.
> 
> *>>> N31 - 49 pics <<<*


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## Jero

I think it's open from 8:00am 'till 12:00pm..


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## Tom 958

Jero said:


> I think it's open from 8:00am 'till 12:00pm..


OK, but why not put "open 8.00-24.00" instead? That's a rhetorical question...

I'm guessing this is a canal bridge-- it's pretty massive looking, and I don't see a railroad on the map:










Pretty cool.


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## CborG

It's indeed a canal bridge or aquaduct


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## TheCat

Jero said:


> I think it's open from 8:00am 'till 12:00pm..


12 AM


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## Chris_533976

MIDNIGHT


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## kosimodo

*A12 The Hague*

Hej,

I have some pics from the A12 in the Hague.. I think they are worth while to be exposed here
































































And a nice Youtube video the other way round...
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=eQp6xj24bC0


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## ChrisZwolle

I think maybe we can turn our traffic jams in some kind of touristic spot, Japanese and Chinese pay for seeing crazy stuff all the time!


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## ChrisZwolle

We also LOVE traffic jams! The evidence:

(only over 10km)
A1 Bussum - Watergraafsmeer 16km
A2 Weert-Noord - Leenderheide 14km
A2 Zaltbommel - Everdingen 21km
A2 Oudenrijn - Abcoude 20km
A4 Nieuw-Vennep - Nieuwe Meer 17km
A4 Roelofarendsveen - Zoeterwoude-Dorp 11km
A9 Holendrecht - Brug over de Ringvaart 10km
A9 Beverwijk - Amstelveen 20km
A10 Volendam - Oud-Zuid 14km
A12 Veenendaal - Bunnik 17km
A12 Oudenrijn - Nieuwerbrug 13km
A12 Gouwe - Zoetermeer-Centrum 10km
A16 Princeville - Moerdijkbrug 15km
A16 Ridderkerk-Zuid - Terbregseplein 10km
A20 Maassluis - Prins Alexander 20km
A20 Moordrecht - Rotterdam-Centrum 11km
A27 Noordeloos - Amsterdam-Rijnkanaal 16km
A27 Huizen - Maarssen 15km
A28 Assen - Zuidlaren 10km
A325 Elst - Velperbroek 11km

total: 520km.


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## ChrisZwolle

The longer, the better :cheers:


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## kosimodo

It is tru, it is busy on those Dutch motorways... and they could use some more lanes...

But...

It is not easy to built motorways in in the western part of the Netherlands... 

The ground is not easy to built motorways on. There are canals, rivers, ditches in all kinds of sizes. And... Where 2 built them?? Historic sites, built-up areas, nature, agriculture... every centimeter is allready used.


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## RoadUser

kosimodo said:


> It is tru, it is busy on those Dutch motorways... and they could use some more lanes...
> 
> But...
> 
> It is not easy to built motorways in in the western part of the Netherlands...
> 
> The ground is not easy to built motorways on. There are canals, rivers, ditches in all kinds of sizes. And... Where 2 built them?? Historic sites, built-up areas, nature, agriculture... every centimeter is allready used.


The land use in Holland is amazing. The last time I was there I stayed at a hotel in Leiderdorp. On one side of the hotel was a motorway (there were some trees to hide it), on the other was a canal. The only free space was a small grassy bank, and there were cows and sheep grazing on it :nuts:

So every centimeter of land gets used.


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## kosimodo

Is there anybody who can provide a map with the amount of trafic and number of lanes?? 

Would be nice to have that in this thread:nuts:


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## Jeroen669

^^ Aren't some kind of that maps already shown in this topic? I know Chris made some of those.


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## kosimodo

Yep number of lanes... but not amount of traffic.. i think


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## ChrisZwolle

I can make those when i am back from work, tonight.


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## ChrisZwolle

As promised, the map;

I guess it explains itself.

Black is extremely busy, red is busy, blue is regular to busy, and green is quite low traffic.


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## Euromast

^^ good work Chris. A12 & A2 r extremely busy while going to Utrecht & amsterdam. And interesting is that last year the trains running parallal to these stretches were also down most of time


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## ChrisZwolle

Euromast said:


> And interesting is that last year the trains running parallal to these stretches were also down most of time


Why should that be interesting? Trains not running does affect the number of traffic jams, because the capacity is already 100% taken, each car more causes more traffic jams. The total traffic volume rises only marginal though.

By the way, i based this map on the latest official year-round counts, which are from 2005. 

Did you know, each day, 4 more cars are added to the Dutch roads? That are 1.460 cars each year. Might sound a lot, but that is really nothing, only an increase of less than 0,02% per year. More cars are added in Beijing *daily* than in the Netherlands *anually*. Though the increase of cars is low, traffic jams rise 10 - 20% anually. The rushhour capacity is absolutely taken, so the rushhour becomes longer and longer.
This morning, rushhour lasted from 5.45 to 11.30, so an increase of 0,5% traffic can cause 10% more traffic jams.


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## Euromast

^^ my post was just to highlight that that region is most busiest . Also few hick ups in train service does not influence the traffic volume so drastically if u analyse annually


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## Mateusz

Motorway with a pedestrian crossing ?


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## Nephasto

The intensities of traffic are really insane, especially taken into account that many of those motorways are 2x2.

And to think that here in Portugal, in non urban motorways, concessionaries ought to enlarge to 2x3 if the AADT surpasses 35000 and to 2x4 if it's over 60000. :nuts:


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## ChrisZwolle

Those last 3 pics are on the exit, not on the motorway. Impressive though.


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## ChrisZwolle

Nephasto said:


> And to think that here in Portugal, in non urban motorways, concessionaries ought to enlarge to 2x3 if the AADT surpasses 35000 and to 2x4 if it's over 60000. :nuts:


Yeah i heard about that, and to be frank, that's completely unnecessary. You can see congestion on 2x2 roads over 70.000 AADT. 35.000 is a very low volume.


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## rick1016

In this picture, are ALL of those roads motorways?


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## CborG

^^yes, they are..


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## kosimodo

Des said:


> Coming from Amsterdam the A4 goes from 2x5 (Schiphol) to 2x2 (North) to 2x3 (Middle) to 2x2 (South) to 2x3 (The Hague).


Bit unfair to state that the A4 goes from 2x5 to 2x2... cause in fact it is a forksituation where it goes from 2x5 to 2 times 2x2.. (A44)


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## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, but the A4 handles most throughtraffic, and has a much higer volume than A44. 

Like the A10 Coentunnel in Amsterdam, the A4 is substandard, with a narrow 2x2 without any hard shoulders. This should have been solved 25 years ago, but it hasn't, and the A4 is therefore the worst traffic situation in queues near the Ringvaart Aquaduct.


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## pospanko

yeah, I remember driving under those buildings  that was great time in the netherlands


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## Des

kosimodo said:


> Bit unfair to state that the A4 goes from 2x5 to 2x2... cause in fact it is a forksituation where it goes from 2x5 to 2 times 2x2.. (A44)


That's common sense, was just to state that there are still two 2x2 stretches in the A4 that need to be upgraded urgently.

And in the table CborG posted you can see the 2x5 bit handles 162.794 cars between Nieuw-Vennep and Kn. Burgerveen. Just after the knooppunt the 2x2 bit has to handle 107.352 cars. So a majority continues on the A4.


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## Joshapd

This site is where i got my map from:
http://www.tudelft.nl/live/pagina.jsp?id=967574ff-98b6-4556-a85e-d714205fe415&lang=nl

Some other info in English:
http://www.traverse.nl.sharepointsite.com/Traverse/Platforms/Transport/Lists/Projectdatabases/DispForm.aspx?ID=106


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## pmaciej7

Hello, can someone answer my question? 



pmaciej7 said:


> (...)does this map mean, that Afsluitdijk (...) will be closed for traffic or pulled down?


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## Jeroen669

It's just a fantasy map, and not a very realistic one (unless the Netherlands would have a population of 50 million or something like that). But the afsluitdijk ("afsluit" = obstructing) has an more important function than offering a connection between Friesland and Noord-Holland. So yes, in the Netherlands we know now, it still would have been needed.


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## ChrisZwolle

So this is the view of the next 30km;


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## CborG

Proposed national road network in 1932. It is the foundation of the Dutch road network and the present network is largely based on this map.
Just a few planned routes on this map are never realized or differ from the present situation by location.


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## ChrisZwolle

Rushhours went nuts the last couple of days...

Thursday, the evening rushhour started at 12.30 and lasted till 20.30, and today, evening rushhour started around 12.30 and lasted to 21.00
The number of hours when there are a lot of traffic jams grows and grows, and will eventually last all the livelong day. 
The number of traffic jams are sometimes insane too, it usually tips one hundred traffic traffic jams at the same time.


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## ChrisZwolle

Funny map, 7 motorways radiating out of Zwolle (my hometown). Today only 3 motorways radiate out. But i don't think all of them are necessary. Only the A35 heading southeast to Almelo would be very useful, and an A34 is a long term project, however i doubt if it ever will give an A34, but there are plans to widen the existing N340 to 2x2 lanes with controlled acces. That's just only one step (emergency lanes) away from a motorway.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Mileage tax by 2011*

The Dutch government decided that they will implement mileage tax in phases within the next few years. Trucks will be the first ones to pay in 2011, other drivers will follow the year after that. 

The target is to implement a GPS tracking system by 2016, so all roads nationwide will be tolled per kilometer, instead of the usual road taxes and taxes over car purchases. 

Minister Camiel Eurlings of transportation will use modern satellite-techniques for exact registration of the driven miles. There will be no toll gates or any physical signs of tolls along the roads. 

Within the next years, the usual road taxes will disappear, and most of the car purchase taxes, which can be set for each individual car, fuel-efficient cars have to pay almost no car taxes, and fuel inefficient cars will have more car-taxes. 

The system causes controversy, because of privacy issues, the government is possible to track every move a citizen takes by car. Another issue is that commuters are afraid they have to pay even more to commute to work, while the Netherlands is already one of the most expensive countries in the world when it comes to car-usage. 
Also, some claim traffic jams will not reduce, because people just have to go to work, and do not face traffic jams unless they really have to. It has already been called "paying for driving in traffic jams". Others claim the lower income class would be affected the first with the high price for commuting. Some fear more people would rather be unemployed than paying so much for commuting.


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## TheCat

^^ Wow, you guys already have one of the highest gas prices in the world. Keeping a car must be unimaginably expensive.


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## CborG

The current motorway network in blue over the old map:


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## Qaabus

TheCat said:


> ^^ Wow, you guys already have one of the highest gas prices in the world. Keeping a car must be unimaginably expensive.


Not really.


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## ChrisZwolle

You pay 42% extra if you buy a new car. I am against this, it doesn´t encourage people to buy a new car, which are more safe and more important; cleaner and better for the environment, especially with diesel engines, which improved remarkably in the last 5 - 10 years.


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## Qaabus

Cars don't even cost half what they cost in Denmark.


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## ChrisZwolle

Yep, in the Netherlands, you pay 142% of the original price, in Denmark, it's 180%. But it's just a case where the government is always mooching off of drivers, they know mobility is one of the most important things in a househould to spend money on. mobility isn't very price-elastic, because, the rising gas prices we saw in the last decade was almost the same as couple of times the mileage tax, and traffic jams didn't reduce, only increased in fact. 

Unless the government wants to make mobility so expensive it's only affordable for the elite and upperclass. That's like stepping back to the Soviet era.


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## Jeroen669

TheCat said:


> ^^ Wow, you guys already have one of the highest gas prices in the world. Keeping a car must be unimaginably expensive.


Maybe it's nice to compare it with American standards? What do you pay for your car in a month alltogether? (so fuel, insurance, redemption (had to look up that word), maintenance and (other) taxes)


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## TheCat

Jeroen669 said:


> Maybe it's nice to compare it with American standards? What do you pay for your car in a month alltogether? (so fuel, insurance, redemption (had to look up that word), maintenance and (other) taxes)


Well, I can say something about Canada, which is a little more expensive than the US, but similar nonetheless. Unfortunately I can't tell you exactly the prices for everything (perhaps other forumers can), since I don't personally own a car, but I just drive my parents' car, and so my main expense is the extra insurance premium and fuel (when I drive).

Prices are in Canadian dollars, which are now worth just a little more than US dollars (almost exactly the same).

Fuel prices fluctuate, but in Canada they are about *$1/Litre*, for the lowest octane rating. In the US, depending on the location, they are slightly lower (they price by the gallon). A few years ago Canada (or was it just Ontario?) introduced a fuel tax, but it's very small compared to European taxes. If you own a typical American car, you will be paying quite a lot for fuel because many American cars (especially those with large engines, of course) can consume quite a lot of fuel. Our first car consumed sometimes 18L/100km inside the city. A smaller Japanese or European car generally consumes less, but of course there are many exceptions.

Insurance varies highly depending on the location, car, and driving record, but this is where I think our prices are high. I have a lot of complaints about the insurance industry in North America, and I think that they are a bunch of criminals. If you get involved in any accident, and I mean any at all, your insurance can easily double, triple, or quadruple in a matter of a few days. If it's your fault, you are screwed. If the accident is classified to be an act of God (i.e. due to bad weather conditions, etc.), you are still screwed. If the accident occurs on private property (such as a parking lot), it is 50% your fault automatically even if it's totally not your fault, and you are screwed. If it's not your fault, then you still might be screwed, although not necessarily  You get my point.

My dad was involved in a pretty bad accident during a winter storm a few years back. Luckily, he got away with minor injuries, but the car was destroyed. The accident was classified as an act of God by the police, but our insurance tripled, and for a while we weren't even sure that we could afford a car anymore. We did, however, buy a much smaller Japanese car. Technically, this means that often people don't report minor/medium accidents to the insurance company, if possible, because if you make a claim (i.e. actually use the insurance company's services), you will be screwed for the next 10 years. This is in contrast with Israel (where I used to live long ago), where making a claim to the insurance company does not usually raise your premium (or does not raise it significantly).

Because of the accident, my dad was paying about *$250/month* insurance on a 7-year-old car. I think now the premium is a little lower, but still high. If you have a perfect record with no accident, however, the price can be much lower. If you are a new driver (under 25) and want your own car, the insurance is usually very expensive.

Insuring me as a secondary driver on my parents' car costs me an extra *$1000/year*, on top of what my parents are paying.

When it comes to maintenance, the standards in North America are extremely low. You do not have to ever test your car for absolutely anything (i.e. good state of repair is completely unimportant here ). This is quite dangerous in my opinion (because theoretically one can put almost anything on the road, as long as it drives), but the advantage is much lower costs compared to Europe. Instead, there is a law in my province requiring cars to undergo emissions testing, i.e. how much pollution the car produces. Generally, the testing is done every 2 years, and it costs *$35*.

Vehicle registration (license plate stickers) has to be renewed either annually or bi-annually. The cost for one year is *$74*, and *$148* for two years. These are the renewal prices for Southern Ontario (where I live). In Northern Ontario the costs are about half as much.

One very important cost is actually the one incurred before one owns a car, i.e. the cost to get a driver's license. It is generally much cheaper than in Europe, simply because in North America people do not have to get driving lessons to get a license. You simply pass your theory test and get a Learner's Permit (in every province/state the system and hence the names of the different license types are a little different, but the idea is the same). Once you get your Learner's Permit, you can start driving right away with an accompanying licensed driver. Technically, that driver can teach you how to drive, and then after some time (e.g. 1 year) you pass your practical test, and get your license.

In my province, you pay *$125* for the theory test to get a class G1 license, which allows you to drive with an accompanying driver, but you may not drive on the motorway. This cost also includes the cost of the first practical test. You do your practical test after 1 year, and you get a class G2 license, which is pretty much a full license, but it expires, and you must have zero alcohol level while driving. This test costs *$40* if you don't pass from the first try (since the initial $100 covers the first test). Then, after a minimum of 1 year (but maximum 4), you have to pass another driving test, which also involves driving on a motorway, to get a class G (full). This test costs *$75*. There isn't a real difference between a G2 and G class (except for some restrictions, such as alcohol level), but you must get your G within 5 years of getting the G1. If you just drive with a G2 and let it expire (something that I'm afraid might happen to me, unless I act quickly this summer hno, you have to pass the whole process again, except that you don't have to wait the 1 year periods between each class. It's stupid, and in my opinion just a way to get more money for the government.

Well, sorry if this was a little too long, but this is a pretty detailed breakdown of most of the prices, I think. Come to think of it, maybe we should open a special thread on the different licensing requirements in different countries in the world, should be interesting


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> Our first car consumed sometimes 18L/100km inside the city.


holy crap that is one liter to 5,5 kilometer. My car consumes 1 liter to 14 kilometers in traffic jams, and 1 liter to 17 kilometers in freeflow situations. And that's still gas, no diesel or something. 

Fuel costs about $ 2,20 per liter in the Netherlands.
Road taxes are very different, it depends on fuel and weight of the car, i pay $ 40 per month, which is one of the cheapest. a typical Diesel car have to pay about $125 per month. 
Then you have to pay a registration fee if you buy a new car, which increases the original price by 142% (apart from the usual 19% VAT). So a car that costs $ 50.000 with VAT on catalogue costs $ 71.000 in reality. However, these prices are already calculated when you see the price of a car.

A car also have to do a periodical check, which has to be done annually for cars of 3 years and older.

My car costs are quite cheap, i buy about $ 175 dollars for gas, $ 77 for insurance and $ 40 for road taxes per month. That's about $ 300 per month. 

But my insurance is not allrisk, and my car is quite fuel-efficient. My dad who ownes a Renault Espace pays $ 500 per month approximatly. 

Getting a license is pretty expensive, it costed me about $ 2700 to get it, which is quite cheap, because if got it all in one time, not a lot of lessons, and i didn't fail once. My ex-girlfriend took 90 (!) lessons and payed over $ 5000 for her license in total.


----------



## Qaabus

42% not 142%


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## TheCat

Qaabus said:


> 42% not 142%


He means that you pay 142% of the original price .


----------



## Jeroen669

@TheCat: it's not too long at all. If fact, those differences are quite interesting. Those ensurances risings just seem to be pure fraud from insurances companies. Ridiculous. Here, it also depends from your number of accidents, age and stuff like that, but it's not that extreme. On the other hand, driver licences seem to be cheap... In holland, the average number of lessons nowadays (before instructors think you're ready to take exams) is 40, and an average lesson costs about €40 an hour. So that's already €1600 euros, without having done any theory or driving exams...


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## ChrisZwolle

40 bucks an hour? I heard prices are around € 40 now, that's about 60 dollars.


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## Jeroen669

I didn't use a dollarsign, Chris.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A small disaster on the A58 motorway today.

Between Breda and Roosendaal, a truck got a flat tire, and crashed into the center divider, and then ricocheted into a gas station, taking down almost the entire roof of the gas station. It's a miracle only the driver got injured.
As we speak, 6 hours after the accident, the motorway is still closed.



















In the traffic jam that formed behind the accident, another accident occurred.


----------



## Des

Oops


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## ChrisZwolle

Another busy rushhour today, 475 kilometers of queue.


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## sonysnob

Lucky the truck didn't ignite the gas station. I can't believe the gas station is so close to the motorway, with only a steel guiderail for protection.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Extremely busy morning-rushhour*

Traffic was very bad this morning, around 8.10 am there were 93 traffic jams totalling 503 kilometers. 

An accident at the A8 motorway right before the Coentunnel caused around 5.50 am already a traffic jam. Around 9 am, there was still 21km of queue at the Coentunnel, starting on the A7 motorway near Avenhorn. 
Rushhour lasted until 11 am.


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## Alex Von Königsberg

Okay, it seems like the next time I visit Holland, I will use the train, thank you very much :lol:


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## ChrisZwolle

Nah trains aren't that much better, they are often overcrowded during rushhours in the west. Best time to travel is between 10 am and 4 pm, then you have only a few traffic jams possible. (besides incidents, no money can be refunded from this advice)


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## SmarterChild

How can people live in Randtstad? If they start 8 am, do they have to leave home at 5? :crazy:


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## ChrisZwolle

A lot of people start around 7 am at their office. The most notorious early traffic jam is the A7-A8-A10 jam before the Coentunnel, everyone wants to go through the tunnel first, so the traffic jams start here as early as 6 am. Don't forget the average commute is about 20km, that often sounds a lot to Dutch people, but i don't think it's that much. 20km can easily take over an hour on a Randstad motorway. 

The Randstad is not defined, so population numbers aren't either. Most common figure is about 7 - 8 million, but also a lot of people commute to the Randstad (especially Utrecht, since that city is on the edge of the Randstad).


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## Jeroen669

Chriszwolle said:


> Nah trains aren't that much better, they are often overcrowded during rushhours in the west.


Well, certainly not all of them. Of course often people need to stand during rush hours, but it's quite rare that trains are so full that some people need to pass a train by. In that way, I wonder if it would differ that much compared to PT in other countries. I travelled a lot by train the past 2 years, and I don't think it's a bad way of transportation. The network is quite big (at least every city with 100.000+ inhabitants has one or more stations), the frequention high (there are almost no train services that run less than 2 times an hour in each direction), and most of the trains are pretty comfortable.


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## Rebasepoiss

^^People have to stand in commuter trains during rush hours everywhere in the world. I call a train full when you have to squeeze yourself in.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Chaos after A27 accident*

At the A27 motorway near Gorinchem, an accident with 3 trucks, 2 vans and 2 cars occurred at the Merwede bridge. The A27 is now already closed for many hours. Traffic is being diverted via the A2 and A16 motorways, but those are fully jammed. Every road in a 30km radius from the accident site was jammed.

Police tried to divert people off the motorway who were already waiting for 2 hours. An ambulance with a victim on board was stuck in a traffic jam, so a second ambulance stopped in the other direction to remove the victim to the other ambulance. 

The accident occurred around 15.30, and the A27 is now at 19.30 still closed for all traffic heading north.


----------



## CborG

A2 widening updates: 

The 1600m landtunnel U/C in Utrecht, 2-3-3-2 lanes will run trough here in a few years:










future:









more here
Pics by Koef


----------



## SmarterChild

tunnel under nothing? why?


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## ChrisZwolle

Here you can see how wide the A2 near Utrecht will be in the future;










One part of the viaduct (one direction in the future), carries now 2x3 lanes +wiiiiide shoulders.


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## lpioe

I've heard in the Netherlands they use hard shoulders as traffic lanes in rush hour.
I wonder how are the markings of this lanes? Dashed line or drawn through line? Or do they have special markings? And how do you know if it is 'open'?


----------



## TheCat

^^ Probably using overhead electronic signs? I know that Germany uses this approach often on its motorways.


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## ChrisZwolle

lpioe said:


> I've heard in the Netherlands they use hard shoulders as traffic lanes in rush hour.
> I wonder how are the markings of this lanes? Dashed line or drawn through line? Or do they have special markings? And how do you know if it is 'open'?


Yes, we have quite a lot of it, i think no country uses this so much as we do.
Rushhour lanes are meant to be a temporary solution until a real widening takes places. Now we now most of these rushhour lanes will be semi-permanent, because of the anti-motorway clubs these days. 

A rushhour lane is nothing more than the shoulder in use. You can see some variable signs which shows you when to enter the lane, and when not to. Also, portal matrixsigns over the road shows a green arrow if you are allowed to enter the lane, and a red cross when you are not allowed to do so. 

In Dutch these lanes are called "spitsstrook" or "spitsstroken" (plural)


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## lpioe

Thanks for the info.
Have the shoulders in the Netherlands the same width as normal lanes?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, sometimes even wider.

You know, our roads are extremely busy during the whole day. If a truck gets a breakdown, and has to change a tire, you don't want to close the right lane, because there isn't enough space on the shoulder. 

One lane closure can cause traffic jams from 5 am to 11 pm. There is no room in the current capacity for incidents.


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## ChrisZwolle

*December 30th 2007, a unique day for the Netherlands*

December 30th 2007 was the day the Netherlands was one whole day traffic jam free. There was no single traffic jam during the day. 

The Dutch had to wait 5 years and 9 nine months for this special occasion, March 30th 2002 was the last day there were no traffic jams.


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## ChrisZwolle

I had the most freightening drive tonight..

A dense fog came around 11 pm, and was worsened by the fireworks. The fog was so extremely dense, one could not see more than 6 feet or 2 meters. I drove back to my house, 10 miles or 16km to the north, which took me 2 hours driving in 1st gear. 

There was absolutely zero sight, you could only see the traffic lights when you are already underneath them, and one could only the the first line of the road markings. It was a complete whiteout, the car in front of me was only 10 feet or 3 meters away, but i could barely see it. 

People were walking in front of the cars to look for the road. Finding your exit on a mini-roundabout was challenging, and i ended up half in the greenery. I couldn't see the verge from my drivers seat. People were standing on roundabouts giving directions to the appropratie exit. I have never experienced anything like this.


----------



## AEvolution

Same here! I had to travel from Bunnik, near Utrecht, to the Hague. That's 70km/43miles and normally would have taken me about 45 minutes to travel, of which 40 minutes of highway. I left Bunnik 3 am only to arrive in The Hague at 7.15 am!! It took me more than 4 full hours! 

Visibility? NONE! The world ended about 3 meters/10 feet in front of my car. The only thing visible was a dashed line on one side of the car and a drawn through line on the other side. Finding your way was nearly impossible. You couldn't see traffic signs, exits, not even a single other car!


----------



## Club_Dru

AEvolution said:


> Same here! I had to travel from Bunnik, near Utrecht, to the Hague. That's 70km/43miles and normally it would have taken me about 45 minutes to travel that distance, of which 40 minutes of highway. I left Bunnik 3 am only to arrive in The Hague at 7.15 am!! It took me more than 4 full hours!
> 
> Visibility? NONE! The world ended about 3 meters/10 feet in front of my car. The only thing visible was a dashed line on one side of the car and a drawn through line on the other side. Finding your way was nearly impossible. You couldn't see traffic signs, exits, not even a single other car!


Also here in east-NL. After the fireworks we stayed home, because of the fogg and fireworkssmokes you could not see anything. The A1 and the A35 were closed because of cars accidents. Some cars drove into the city-canals. Because of the fogg, the alarmnumber in this region was called 165 times. 

I didn't see any firework in the air either. We hope for better times next year:nuts:


----------



## SmarterChild

holy shit! Any more pics of the fogg would be appreciated. Bedankt!


----------



## ChrisZwolle




----------



## Chris_533976

They had that on the M7 in Ireland a few months ago really dense fog.

Did people behave and slow down? No. They kept going 120kmh and kept undertaking, resulting in a 100 car pileup.


----------



## AEvolution

SmarterChild said:


> holy shit! Any more pics of the fogg would be appreciated. Bedankt!


Pictures? Just hold a piece of white papier at arms lenght in front of your eyes, and you'll get the picture :lol:


----------



## Club_Dru

Chris_533976 said:


> They had that on the M7 in Ireland a few months ago really dense fog.
> 
> Did people behave and slow down? No. They kept going 120kmh and kept undertaking, resulting in a 100 car pileup.


Most people slow down in the city. I was driving a couple of meters and suddenly I was suprised by a cyclist in front of my car. The highways A35 and the A1 to the German border was closed, because of chain-accidents with cars. 

Because of the new years festivity, most of the people already had plans to go out. But the visibility was 1 meter, even taxi's didn't drive anymore. 

But lucky, Netherland is a bicyclecountry, sow the most diehard partypeople went cycling.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Dutch gas price (euro 95 gasoline) has risen to €1,538. That is the equivalent of US $ 8,557 per gallon. That gives some perspective to the Americans who says their $ 3 per gallon is expensive... Super plus (98 gasoline) even hits € 1,603 per liter that is the equivalent to $ 8,919 per gallon.


----------



## TheCat

^^ I have always been curious about octane ratings. In Israel the ratings are very similar to the Dutch ones (you have 95, 96 and super 98). In Canada (and I think US as well) the ratings are 87, 89, and 91. Does it mean that the fuel quality in North America is lower, or simply a different way of measuring?


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## ChrisZwolle

The lower the octane, the less power an engine can get from a certain amount of gas. A higher octane value means the engine has a better efficiency with the same amount of gas. 

So the low octane ratings are less fuel efficient, hence the larger amount of fuel consumption. Together with larger cars and engines, this means Americans might use twice the fuel consumption per capita as in Europe. 

Here in the Netherlands, 95 octane is the lowest you can usually get. I know Germany still sells 92 octane called "benzin". 95 octane is called "super" and 98 octane is called "superplus". A lot of tourist get the wrong octane gas in their fuel tank, because they think "benzin" is the same as the euro95 gas in the Netherlands. 

Some further reading on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating


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## Mateusz

Euro 95 :cheers:


----------



## Frits_NL

Here some pictures from The Netherlands:

A17 / A16: knooppunt De Stok->knooppunt Klaverpolder->knooppunt Zonzeel
Zip: http://www.xs4all.nl/~fnieuwen/pic/191/Serie191.zip
Album: http://www.xs4all.nl/~fnieuwen/pic/191/

A73 (N271) / N280: knooppunt Het Vonderen->Venlo
Zip: http://www.xs4all.nl/~fnieuwen/pic/192/Serie192.zip
Album: http://www.xs4all.nl/~fnieuwen/pic/192/

A67 Venlo->Eindhoven
Zip: http://www.xs4all.nl/~fnieuwen/pic/193/Serie193.zip
Album: http://www.xs4all.nl/~fnieuwen/pic/193/

The pictures will never stay longer dan two or three weeks online because I have only 200 Mb webspace!


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## ChrisZwolle

These are just like a painting, Frits! :cheers:


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## Frits_NL

When the pictures were taken it was cold but very sunny. Than you can get this effect.


----------



## TheCat

Chriszwolle said:


> The lower the octane, the less power an engine can get from a certain amount of gas. A higher octane value means the engine has a better efficiency with the same amount of gas.
> 
> So the low octane ratings are less fuel efficient, hence the larger amount of fuel consumption. Together with larger cars and engines, this means Americans might use twice the fuel consumption per capita as in Europe.
> 
> Here in the Netherlands, 95 octane is the lowest you can usually get. I know Germany still sells 92 octane called "benzin". 95 octane is called "super" and 98 octane is called "superplus". A lot of tourist get the wrong octane gas in their fuel tank, because they think "benzin" is the same as the euro95 gas in the Netherlands.
> 
> Some further reading on Wikipedia:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating


Thanks for the reply. I actually know the meaning of octane rating (some of those high school chemistry lessons still remain ), but I was just wondering why in Israel (and Europe, from what I just read) the octane ratings are higher than in Canada (and the US). I was curious whether it just means that due to reasons unknown to me, the fuel sold here indeed has low octane rating, or somehow the numbers are changed but equivalent  In Toronto the highest rating you can get is 91 (as far as I know), and most people use 87 because of rising prices (yes, I do know that you guys pay much more, but people here still don't like to pay).


----------



## Realek

Chris, you're wrong about the octane rating having an effect on consumption. The octane rating only has to do with the ignition characteristics of the fuel. That being said, a higher octane rating will allow a higher compression ratio (but only if the engine is designed for it), and thus it will deliver slightly more power. But only slightly - it is a safe bet that you will not feel any difference. Whether it is worth it, I leave it to you.

I usually buy the 98, because here in Macedonia the price difference with the 95 is only ~0,016€/L and for such a minor difference I feel I better opt for the 98, even if the performance enhancement is practically negligible.

As I understand, you only must use higher octane rating fuel if your engine starts giving you problems known as "knocking" and that is serious problem.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Ah okay. In the Netherlands, 98 is about € 0,10 more expensive, so everyone buys 95, but i heard those FSI engines only run on 98. 

So i think you can say the American and Russian engines are less sophisticated?


----------



## LochNESS

Which is true, like one said, the compression can be higher in an engine that runs on higher octane and that results in generally better fuel consumption. It's not much like some said, probably around 1km more on a liter but it's still there. It also helps acceleration and because it burns better you also have less unburned fuel going out of the exaustpipe, making it better for the environment.



> As I understand, you only must use higher octane rating fuel if your engine starts giving you problems known as "knocking" and that is serious problem.


Yes, if your engine is specially made for high octane fuel, and you run on too low octane your engine can start 'knocking' which could eventually result into total destruction of the engine. But as you can hear this, just fill it up the next time with higher octane fuel.


----------



## Realek

Chriszwolle said:


> So i think you can say the American and Russian engines are less sophisticated?


In a way, yes




LochNESS said:


> It's not much like some said, probably around 1km more on a liter but it's still there.


I'd say that's way too optimistic in normal circumstances.


----------



## kosimodo

Chriszwolle said:


> The Dutch gas price (euro 95 gasoline) has risen to €1,538. That is the equivalent of US $ 8,557 per gallon. That gives some perspective to the Americans who says their $ 3 per gallon is expensive... Super plus (98 gasoline) even hits € 1,603 per liter that is the equivalent to $ 8,919 per gallon.


We are so lucky with the low dollar rate 

Just imagine what if the dollar was as high as well, ... eh.. 5 years ago??


----------



## LochNESS

@Realek:
Yeah, that's true it would be in the most optimal circumstances. Still it would save you a bit of fuel. Especially if the engine is made for it. 

Topgear for example tested the Shell V-power (the current version of superplus at shell I believe) and if you have a small engine it doesn't help anything but if you have a turbo engine or just a powerful injection etc it saves does give you extra around 2% extra power and fuelconsumption.


----------



## ZeTaCy

kosimodo said:


> We are so lucky with the low dollar rate
> 
> Just imagine what if the dollar was as high as well, ... eh.. 5 years ago??


It doesnt matter much, only a few eurocents. 70% of the gasoline price is taxes, so the government is the biggest winner here.


----------



## Nexis

great pictures!


----------



## Izumo

hi all. this was the first time i took pictures of a highway(just got my driver's licensekay. I was driving from Arnhem(NL) to Kleve(D) so there are also some Deutsche autobahn pics. The highway part is 23 km long. they are taken with my mobile so sorry for the bad quality:nuts:. next time i will bring a better camera with me.

A12/3/E35









this is the A12 near Duiven



near zevenaar


almost at the border



germany! how easy was that:lol: crossing a border with 120 km/h(after the bordercrossing i accelerated a bit more). there only was one german policecar and two Dutch policecars




bonus
bridge near Emmerich.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You just added html code. You need the tag-codes.

[img]http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/2896/11012008145jd2.th.jpg


----------



## Izumo

Chriszwolle said:


> You just added html code. You need the tag-codes.
> 
> [img]http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/2896/11012008145jd2.th.jpg


thanks i had some trouble with that. I have added more now.


----------



## Verso

Nice pix and congrats on driving license. kay:


----------



## Jeroen669

You immediatly make highwaypictures after getting your driving licence? Nice route, anyway. I especially like the bridge at Emmerich, though I don't often take that route. I usually take A325/B9 if I'm going to germany.


----------



## Izumo

No i got it about 2 months now but this was the first time i did this.

and yes almost every time i take the A325/B9 route but i hate it when the A325 is jammed at the waalbrug(at nijmegen).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

50 foot truck blown away on the A16 Moerdijkbrug


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Translation:

A16 Ring Rotterdam: Rotterdam -> Breda
between Rotterdam-Centrum and Rotterdam-Feijenoord 2km traffic jam,
Soccer game *at* the parallel lane

:lol:


----------



## keber

Chriszwolle said:


> 50 foot truck blown away on the A16 Moerdijkbrug


50 *foot*?

Imperial units used by Dutchman in thread about Dutch motorways: :lol:

(and also, it's wrong, should say 50 feet)


----------



## Verso

Chriszwolle said:


> Soccer game *at* the parallel lane
> 
> :lol:


Was this planned or just happened? :lol:


----------



## ADCS

TheCat said:


> Thanks for the reply. I actually know the meaning of octane rating (some of those high school chemistry lessons still remain ), but I was just wondering why in Israel (and Europe, from what I just read) the octane ratings are higher than in Canada (and the US). I was curious whether it just means that due to reasons unknown to me, the fuel sold here indeed has low octane rating, or somehow the numbers are changed but equivalent  In Toronto the highest rating you can get is 91 (as far as I know), and most people use 87 because of rising prices (yes, I do know that you guys pay much more, but people here still don't like to pay).


Unlike what some have been saying, the octane ratings are generally equivalent for gas in N.A. and in Europe, however, we have a different way of calculating the numbers. Europe strictly uses the RON number, while North America uses an average of the RON and MON number (thats why above the octane rating, there is a little thing that says "R+M/2 method")

MON is usually about 10 points below the RON for equivalent gasoline, thus the lower numbers over in the US and Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating


----------



## Qaabus

87 + 4 or 5 still only makes 91/92 though.
Anyways, does somebody have some construction updates?
I'm intrigued by that land tunnel thing.


----------



## kosimodo

keber said:


> 50 *foot*?
> 
> Imperial units used by Dutchman in thread about Dutch motorways: :lol:
> 
> (and also, it's wrong, should say 50 feet)


Yep! 

It is an international forum... 

Let keep it the international standard: t.i. meters. How much is 50 feet?? Beside the philipines and the USofA nobody knows:cheers:


----------



## TheCat

ADCS said:


> Unlike what some have been saying, the octane ratings are generally equivalent for gas in N.A. and in Europe, however, we have a different way of calculating the numbers. Europe strictly uses the RON number, while North America uses an average of the RON and MON number (thats why above the octane rating, there is a little thing that says "R+M/2 method")
> 
> MON is usually about 10 points below the RON for equivalent gasoline, thus the lower numbers over in the US and Canada.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating


Thanks, I should have looked at the article earlier. It is interesting indeed, but from the article the conclusion is still that the US and Canada generally provide lower octane fuel than the rest of the world (or at least, Europe), since our "best" rating is equivalent to Europe's "regular", and most often lowest, whereas our "regular" (87) is equivalent to about 92 in Europe, which is below anything they have, except for Germany I guess (which I know from this thread ).


----------



## picassoborseli

CborG said:


> Proposed national road network in 1932. It is the foundation of the Dutch road network and the present network is largely based on this map.
> Just a few planned routes on this map are never realized or differ from the present situation by location.



Road number 3 from Amsterdam-Gouda-Rotterdam would be a good option to solve a lot of traffic problems between The Hague and Rotterdam and also from The Hague to Amsterdam. 
It would reduce also the time with 10 minutes I geuss if you drive from amsterdam to Rotterdam on a new motorway indicated on that old map.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Don't count on it that A3 will ever be build.

Meanwhile, our key mainport is inaccesible at the moment. 3 trucks crashed at the N15 expressway near the Maasvlakte (Europort Rotterdam), and the motorway is closed and there are no alternative routes. This means one of the largest harbors in the world cannot be reached.

Trucks are advised to find a parking space asap, since there are very few parking possibilities west of Rotterdam. The crash site is said to be a disaster. No pics yet.


----------



## picassoborseli

I was not counting on it. But I still think it is essential. a 3 lane motorway would serve the 2 biggest cities in The Netherlands. Also traffic from the south is able to get faster in Amsterdam and other nothern parts of The Netherlands. The Randstad has to improve the infrastructure. It is a total mess every morning and afternoon.


----------



## Jeroen669

^^ 'Het groene hart' is way too worthfull to build a motorway through. They better widen the existing A4 and complete (all of) the missing links in it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yep, the A4 and A12 should be widened to 2x5 lanes all the way.

Because they building one hundredthousand houses per year, and a lot of them is along or near these corridors, though they have the same capacity as 10 and sometimes 40 years ago.


----------



## Realek

Can one of the Dutchmen explain the colors on that old map?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It describes the importance of a road, divided into 4 categories, each by it's representative color as seen on the right of that map. In 1932, only the Randstad is seen as highest categorie.


----------



## ADCS

TheCat said:


> Thanks, I should have looked at the article earlier. It is interesting indeed, but from the article the conclusion is still that the US and Canada generally provide lower octane fuel than the rest of the world (or at least, Europe), since our "best" rating is equivalent to Europe's "regular", and most often lowest, whereas our "regular" (87) is equivalent to about 92 in Europe, which is below anything they have, except for Germany I guess (which I know from this thread ).


True, and I think that is mostly because of a perception of higher octane = more fuel economy, which isn't necessarily the case.


----------



## kosimodo

Chriszwolle said:


> Because they building one hundredthousand houses per year, and a lot of them is along or near these corridors, though they have the same capacity as 10 and sometimes 40 years ago.


It is not that much Chris...^^


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, it was the goal, but it turned out 78.000 homes build in 2007. Usually not close to work locations, and you do the math if this happens every year.


----------



## picassoborseli

Jeroen669 said:


> ^^ 'Het groene hart' is way too worthfull to build a motorway through. They better widen the existing A4 and complete (all of) the missing links in it.



Then they should build another aquaduct or bridge under/over "De Ringvaart Haarlemmermeer".
Are there any plans in the future for that part of the A-4?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ It is already planned, but there are still some difficulties.

This stretch of the A4 is the #1 traffic jam spot in the Netherlands, and has often accidents. On Monday 3 trucks, and a couple of cars smashed into eachother in this narrow aquaduct, that has narrow lanes and no shoulders.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This is a picture of the Ringvaart Aquaduct near Leiden. Over 107.000 vehicles a day travel through this aquaduct, which is the only connection between the 3 largest cities in the Netherlands. Man this thing should have been eliminated in 1985. hno:


----------



## picassoborseli

^^ LOL

I wanted to post that image too, but you were faster.
I drove there last month... And I was amazed by the fact that less than 5 kms further the A-4 has 4 lanes and even 5!


----------



## Verso

OTOH, if people know it's a dangerous spot, I'd expect them to be extra cautious. There's a roundabout in my city with accident almost every day (usually locals are involved) and some people still learn nothing out of it. :nuts:


----------



## Muttie

Made this vid a while ago (GSM-cam quality), traffic jam on the A12 (4 lane highway) Complete standstill for a few hours... most boring day of my life..


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A12 between Gouda and Zoetermeer?


----------



## Muttie

Chriszwolle said:


> A12 between Gouda and Zoetermeer?


Yep.


----------



## CborG

Aerial of the new A7 Near Groningen, completion in 2009:










Big map of the future situation
http://www.terreinwinst.nl/Portals/0/ontwerp_euvelgunne.jpg


----------



## SmarterChild

^ Impressive, how much is the ADT there?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

AADT is 88.000 on the southside of Groningen. But i think it's only 40.000 in this section to Germany, and eventually lowers off to 10.000 near the German border. But 40.000 is still too much to handle with traffic lights.


----------



## ZeTaCy

The first day we get a snow storm or ice in the roads, we will get a new nr 1 traffic jam day :S. Nothing has changed, the roads near Rotterdam, The Hague and Amsterdam dont get a lot more capacity and their will be a day the entire country will be 1 big traffic jam.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ The record is 975 km. I doubt if we can beat that.

Maybe if a snowstorm comes sudden without any pre-warnings. 

Last year, severe weather was predicted, and the evening rushhour was the most quiet ever, because everybody went home early, or took a day off work.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This morning, a multi-vehicle pile-up causes problems on the A2 southbound near Zaltbommel (Utrecht -> Eindhoven). Exact figures of the number of vehicles involved are unclear, and are ranging from 25 cars to 70 cars.


----------



## GuyFromMoss

I love dutch motorways! I wish we had motorways like that in Norway!


----------



## CborG

The southern part of the ring A10 around Amsterdam now cuts through the Zuidas business district and is a huge barrier between the 2 parts. The wide median is used by the metro- and railway lines









bigger size: http://www.zuidas.nl/Images/Luchtfot.jpg

In the future this stretch will submerge below ground in a double 2-layer tunnel. The metro and railway will be underground too, a huge project. 









bigger size: http://www.zuidas.nl/Images/Artist_i.jpg


----------



## Ni3lS

A7 Heerenveen 









On the left is my school  but you can't see it well, but when i'm getting bored on school i'm just looking out of the window on the cross of A32/A7


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I have travelled many times on that interchange (from Groningen to Zwolle), and i don't like it, there is too little room to decelerate and take the 55km/h cloverleaf. They should have build parallel lanes here. (like interchange Hoevelaken).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Video of the A12 near Arnhem, made today, saturday morning.


----------



## Qwert

Chriszwolle said:


> Video of the A12 near Arnhem, made today, saturday morning.


Interresting video. It looks quite busy on Saturday. Also the song is nice. Sorry for being offtopic, but can you tell me what's its name?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Dutch motorways are always busy somehow. Drive on sunday on the A1 or A2 near Amsterdam, and all 3 lanes are full with traffic.

The song is by Marillion - Seasons End


----------



## Qwert

Chriszwolle said:


> Dutch motorways are always busy somehow. Drive on sunday on the A1 or A2 near Amsterdam, and all 3 lanes are full with traffic.
> 
> The song is by Marillion - Seasons End


Thank you for that song.

Well, roads around big cities are always busy, but if this is Saturday I don't want to see traffic on Monday...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, i think that Dutch motorways are always busy, because there are no realistic alternatives to them. I drove today also by Bielefeld, which is 2 times larger than Arnhem, but traffic levels were much lower there. Same within the Ruhrgebiet, the rural A50 between Zwolle and Apeldoorn was much more busy than the German A2 right through the largest urban area of Germany. Same with Osnabrück. (i'll show video's later from there).


----------



## Qwert

Chriszwolle said:


> Well, i think that Dutch motorways are always busy, because there are no realistic alternatives to them. I drove today also by Bielefeld, which is 2 times larger than Arnhem, but traffic levels were much lower there. Same within the Ruhrgebiet, the rural A50 between Zwolle and Apeldoorn was much more busy than the German A2 right through the largest urban area of Germany. Same with Osnabrück. (i'll show video's later from there).


By that realistic alternative you mean some parallel roads?


----------



## Booze

Thanks for the video! The seem very well mainteined

The sun is really low O: What time was that? In southern latittudes the sun is only that low very early in the morning, so it doesn't disturb much


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Nice to see you were able to login 

Yes, the A2 between Utrecht and Amsterdam currently carries between 160.000 and 180.000 vehicles a day on 2x3 lanes. This causes widespread congestion. Though i don't think the congestion will completely dissapear after the widening, since the adjacent roads also have a lack of capacity.


----------



## Timon91

Yes, I agree. This measure will only help for a few years, maybe a decade. Then the A2 will be stuck again. However, this expansion is really necessary, because my town (Abcoude, 6500 inhabitants) is famous in the whole country because of the traffic jams on the A2 (radio messages and videotext). Every morning when I bike to school, a few towns south, I have a very good view of the A2.....and when I see it, I'm glad to see the new lanes coming...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another problem child in the Netherlands is the A12 corridor east of Utrecht. This motorway serves over 400.000 inhabitants withing 35km, an area that relies almost completely on Utrecht (and also a bit on Arnhem). The problem is: the A12 is the only east-west connection, and has only 2x2 lanes. Traffic jams occur on this entire section, at some point during the day. Widening to 2x3 lanes is urgent, though it's better to widen it to 2x4 lanes, so we don't have to get through problems in the near future. The AADT on this road is about 100.000


----------



## Timon91

^^Yes, there is this famous bottleneck at exit Bunnik (my grandparents live in Driebergen, so I know this part very well)


----------



## picassoborseli

How about the A-9 stretch next to Badhoevedorp?
Will it actualy be built?


----------



## Verso

Magnificent bridge!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

this one? That pic has been taken on a saturday or sunday late afternoon, and there is still a lot of traffic there.


----------



## Cpt.Iglo

Verso said:


> Magnificent bridge!


It's an magnificent bridge indeed. When you drive over it, you have a beautiful view over the city and the skyline of Rotterdam.


----------



## Verso

Chriszwolle said:


> this one?


Yes, this one. I'm a little late.  And not just the bridge, the whole road and 12 lanes.


----------



## CborG

Some A2 night shots with my new camera:




























And my new taxi:banana:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Currently a 41km traffic jam there


----------



## Mateusz

This motorway will be widened or something ?


----------



## Racingfreak

haha are you a real highwayfreak, that you post your photos in the night!


----------



## CborG

Well, work goes on day and night. I posted them after i came home from work


----------



## Paulie Walnuts

MateoW said:


> This motorway will be widened or something ?


Yes. I believe to 4 lanes in each direction. Right now it's kind of an oasis in the old A2 (2x2 lanes). The whole A2 is being upgraded to 2x3 or 2x4 the next few years.


----------



## CborG

^^Correct. It will be 2x4 lanes with space reservation for 2x5


----------



## CborG

Some pics of the new Roertunnel in the A73













































source: www.limburger.nl


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Somebody ordered a truck?

A16 Moerdijkbrug (bridge across the Hollands Diep near Dordrecht)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

20 - 45 minutes later, still an awful lot of trucks here.


----------



## kosimodo

Thats amazing.... any numbers about the amount of trucks???


----------



## Des

I still think they should build the A6 / A9 connection anyway. But they also have to widen the existing roads.


----------



## Timon91

^^ Yes, and I think the government will pick up the plans for A6/A9 again, whilst widening of the A9 "Gaasperdammerweg" to 2×4 or 2×5 is not possible without demolishing houses (which will of course give much more opposition than the Naardermeer)

@ Chris: will those 12 lanes than only be between the A6/A1 intersection and the A10? And what about the section between that and Amersfoort (if this is left in the 2×2 as it is now, it will be a major bottleneck, going from 2×7 to 2×2). Over there something happens too. But, still this is not possible without demolishing houses. Do you know anything about this? Or anyone else?


----------



## Timon91

Edit: those arrows were meant for des post

@darulez: what the hell do you mean?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The A1 is already a major bottleneck. I spent an hour near Naarden multiple times in traffic jams, because the road narrows from 2x3 to 2x2 lanes. Better would be that the whole A1 from Muiderberg to Hoevelaken to be widened to 2x4 lanes, but that requires some serious out-of-the-box thinking, and also, spatial changes near Blaricum and Bussum.


----------



## TheCat

This is a pretty cool video of an 85 km drive in the Netherlands, very early in the morning:


----------



## Jeroen669

Nice video!  I recognized the route Zoetermeer - Rotterdam - Breda - Etten-Leur. Some nice infrastructure there, especially A16.


----------



## Koala

'Tunnelbak' A16 Breda and HSL zuid under construction.


----------



## Koala

Jeroen669 said:


> Nice video!  I recognized the route Zoetermeer - Rotterdam - Breda - Etten-Leur. Some nice infrastructure there, especially A16.


He drives not to Etten leur but to Ulvenhout...
For some pictures of the tunnelbak you've seen on the video check above


----------



## Jeroen669

:wallbash: You're right. I was confused by the intercharges Galder and Princeville.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I made a whole bunch of pics today, from the A28 Zwolle - Assen, N34 Gieten - Emmen and the A37-A28 Emmen - Zwolle. I'll upload them tonight.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

"tunnelbak" is not a real English word. I'm not sure about the translation, maybe something like "embedded open tunnel", it means a roadway that has been constructed below grade, but not a real tunnel.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Bad weather today on the A37 motorway between Emmen and Hoogeveen, westbound


----------



## Majestic

Chriszwolle said:


> "tunnelbak" is not a real English word. I'm not sure about the translation, maybe something like "embedded open tunnel", it means a roadway that has been constructed below grade, but not a real tunnel.


I think it's called a sunken road/motorway but I might be wrong.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Time for some pics. For loading time sake, i decided to put them in my webalbum.

*A28 Zwolle - Assen -> 71km, 69 photo's*

The A28 is the main highway from the central parts of the Netherlands towards the North. It is the only motorway to pass by 4 provincial capitals. This journey goes from Zwolle, a city of 116.000 to Assen, a regional city, and capital of Drente province. The total route is 71 km.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N34 Gieten - Emmen -> 40km, 60 photo's*

The N34 is the main national road that is not a motorway in the province of Drente. It connects the largest municipality of Emmen with Groningen. Some parts are in the process of being reconstructed, especially near Gieten and Borger, where grade-seperated interchanges are constructed. The number of lanes will be limited to one per direction though.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A37/A28 Emmen - Zwolle -> 65km, 68 photo's*

The A37 is the second most important motorway in Drente, connecting Emmen to the national motorway network. This journey runs from Emmen, to Hoogeveen, onto the A28 to Zwolle, where we pass right through the city. There was some bad weather on the way, reducing the speed to 90km/h. We exit at exit Zwolle-Zuid (South).


----------



## Timon91

Nice pics, Chris!


----------



## keber

Koala said:


> 'Tunnelbak' A16 Breda and HSL zuid under construction.


4+4 lanes?


----------



## Majestic

What is this green stripe in the middle of the road on the N34 Chris?


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

^^ Yeah, it is a pretty confusing and awkward marking considering that none of the Netherlands' neighbours have it. I think if it is green median and a broken side line then 60 km/h, and if it is green median and a solid side line then 80 km/h. Correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## Koala

keber said:


> 4+4 lanes?


No it was only for a few time during the construction
Now it's ready they're 3+3 lanes.


----------



## go_leafs_go02

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> ^^ Yeah, it is a pretty confusing and awkward marking considering that none of the Netherlands' neighbours have it. I think if it is green median and a broken side line then 60 km/h, and if it is green median and a solid side line then 80 km/h. Correct me if I am wrong.


the way i understood it meant that it was safe to travel at 100 km/h.

I was in the netherlands (stayed in nunspeet last august for 2 weeks, which is just a bit east of Zwolle, just off A28). Anyways, i was there last summer, and that's how it was explained to me.

You'd think it would be cheaper to post a sign than paint a green line.


----------



## TheCat

^^ You're more or less right. There was a post in this thread somewhere before on this topic, but here it is again as a reminder:










Very confusing indeed


----------



## Jeroen669

Go_leafs_go02 said:


> You'd think it would be cheaper to post a sign than paint a green line.


It are our stupid politicians who think they can improve traffic safety with these markings. 

The reason behind it: on 60km/h roads bycyclist - should - better be seen and drivers - should - slow down when there's a driver in front of them. Oh, and not to forget: those roads are mostly full with speed bumps and road narrowings (don't know the right word for it) 
80 and 100 km/h: roads are optical narrowed (there used to be a single dash line in the middle, just as everywhere else in europe), so it - should - tempt drivers not to drive too fast.

That's the theory. Fact is that these things haven't improved anything at all. People now less obey the speed limit and the overtaking prohibition...

And about the speed limits, I've said it before: those are still not depending on the markings but on the signs. So outside city limits 80km/h, only 60km/h when it's signed (mostly with a 'zone-60' sign), only 100km/h when you passed a motorroad sign.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The road markings don't have any legal status. One should always follow the roadsigns. 

Also, the road markings often do not apply to the right speed limit.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Also, i made some pics today from the A1-A28 from Amsterdam to Zwolle (120km). I'll upload them tonight.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 - A28 Amsterdam - Zwolle -> 110km, 154 photo's*

The A1 is one of the busiest motorways, and faces heavy undercapacity. The road is the whole day very busy in both directions. This photojourney was taken between 13.15 and 14.30 hours. The A28 has some nice scenery, in the Veluwe wooded area.


----------



## Timon91

^^Nice pics again, Chris. Strange there were no clouds on your pictures. When I was at school today, and looked north (when staring out of the window, which is the best thing to do at school) I saw very very dark clouds (around 2pm). On my way back from school (at 3pm) it was hailing and raining very hard in my town, just below Amsterdam. Haven't you had this storms?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I had some rain on the Lelystad - Enkhuizen dike, but it was wonderfully nice weather when i drove back from Amsterdam.


----------



## Timon91

^^You lucky guy.......


----------



## Majestic

That's a lot of traffic on the motorway. And it's not rush-hour, is it? I remember that Clarkson would always get stuck somewehere in the Netherlands in Top Gear :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nope, it's around 1 pm.


----------



## Verso

Again you're full of nice photos, Chris. :cheers: You sure drive a lot around your country.


----------



## Cpt.Iglo

Nice pictures Chris! Are you driving when you take those pics or does someone else drive?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I drive myself, and take the pics. It's not too hard, but you have to know when it's too dangerous to do. (like in heavy traffic or inner city roads).


----------



## Skyprince

Chriszwolle said:


> I drive myself, and take the pics. It's not too hard, but you have to know when it's too dangerous to do. (like in heavy traffic or inner city roads).


Oh dude it is Very dangerous , I did it before and almost crashed my mom's car   

Very nice pics of Amsterdam-Zwolle stretch, I spent almost 30 mins to look at all pics kay: Very high-quality highways of Holland... oops Netherlands  

But why don't use Green sign for highway ? And I was a bit surprised on how deserted Netherlands is.. I only saw mostly forest and very few buildings along the highway-- isn;t Netherlands a densely populated Kingdom ? ( 17 million ppl squeezed into 36,000 sq km land area ) 

I also want to see the rest area of Dutch highways-- what kind of restaurants are available plus other facilities.. if you have any.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

rest area's are usually not featuring much facilities, because the average Dutch driver is not very long on the motorway, nor is the Netherlands a huge transitcountry for drivers. 

To be frank, i favor green signs too. But blue works fine too.

What you didn't see, is that i passed by so many cities and towns along this route. If you drive somewhere, you're passing by any population center each minute within a 3km radius on the motorway. Looks can be deceptive, you know


----------



## Timon91

^^I also think Chris wasn't able to make lots of pictures while passing cities because there is much more traffic, so making pictures is much more dangerous......


----------



## kosimodo

Hej, 

found those pics on a dutch thread... atfer the discussion over the lack of builtup areas 

Here u are:

Big thanks to our fellowmember: Layziedogg: I bet he dont mind 

1.








2.









3.









4. 
S.C Heerenveen









5.
Skyline Almere.









6.
Almere.









7.
A2 knooppunt oudenrijn.









8.
hotel Breukelen.









9.
highrise around Amsterdam Arena from A9.









10.
Zaltbommelbrug.









11.
A2 Den Bosch.









12.
knooppunt A16-A15 Rotterdam.









13.
Van Brienenoord-brug.









14.
Suburbia Rotterdam









15.









16.
prins clausplein









17.
Zuid-as A4-A10.









18.
A10 west.








19.
A10.









20.
A10 









21.
'The Shoe' on Zuid-as.









22.









23.









24.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice shots. The first three are from my hometown Zwolle  I see that baby daily.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

We have actually little over 2,300km of freeways. CIA should check their facts better, as usual.


----------



## Jeroen669

Depends on their definition of expressways. Maybe they included autowegen?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Most "Autowegen" (Motor Roads) are only 2 lanes, just like an ordinary highway, but with restrictions to slow traffic and a higher speed limit. I cannot find a way to place those under "expressways", because they are far from that (with a few exceptions ofcourse).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

We had 100 individual traffic jams at the same time this morning :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Major improvements on the northern roads in the Netherlands in the upcoming years, a large fund became available because of the (thank god) cancelled HSR Zuiderzeelijn from Amsterdam to Groningen. 

List of improvements:

-> A7 Groningen improvement on this non-motorway section € 624 mln
-> All roads towards Leeuwarden are gonna be improved € 222 mln
-> New exit near Assen, new train station, local improvements € 222 mln
-> N50 Zwolle - Emmeloord replacement of old bridge and widening to 2x2 lanes € 26 mln
-> Expanding railway Leeuwarden - Groningen € 120 mln
-> railway station Assen & Werpsterhoek € 43 mln
-> lightrail Groningen - Nieuweschans/Veendam € 32 mln
-> improving existing stations € 11 mln
-> fast buses € 20 mln
-> other mass transit improvements € 70 mln
-> N31 rebuilding to A31 with aqueduct in Harlingen € 200 mln
-> Central Axe (Dokkum Nijega highway) € 40 mln
-> converting roundabout Joure (A6-A7) into interchange € 100 mln


----------



## CborG

Some night shots of the A2 i made last night:

This bridge will make room for a new wider one:










Near Waardenburg:









The Martinus Nijhoff bridge crossing the Waal river at Zaltbommel


----------



## Timon91

^^Nice pics. Do you work at night?


----------



## Des

Nice pics! 

Yesterday I drove from Vaduz in Liechtenstein back to Amsterdam. Took me about 8 hours, and considering rush hour in Germany and the Netherlands I think I took the right route. 

Here's the route suggested by my satnav: 

http://maps.google.nl/maps?f=d&hl=n...69397,5.509644&sspn=2.385979,7.305908&ie=UTF8

Since I left Vaduz at 11:00 I knew I would hit rush hour in the 'ruhr area' so instead I decided to drive from Vaduz to Zurich and Basel. Then went north into Germany and followed the A5 past Karlsruhe (some roadworks on that bit) to exit onto the A6 / A61. From Hockenheim I followed the A61 all the way to Venlo. No trafficjams at all  From Venlo I followed the A73 and the A50, then instead of joining the jams between Nijmegen en Arnhem I took the A15 towards Tiel and took the A2 home. Last part of the A2 between Utrecht and Amsterdam was busy and jammed as usual but still I made it home around 19:00.

I can advice this route to anyone who's driving from Switzerland or Liechtenstein to the Netherlands on a week day. On saturday or sunday I would take the route suggested by Google Maps.


----------



## Verso

^^ I still don't get it why you went from Vaduz to Karlsruhe over Basel instead of Ulm. There weren't rush hours by the time you reached Karlsruhe to be stuck by Stuttgart.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Stuttgart - Karlsruhe can be jammed at anytime during the day i heard.


----------



## Des

Chriszwolle said:


> Stuttgart - Karlsruhe can be jammed at anytime during the day i heard.


Yup apart from the fact I don't like the bits Ulm - Stuttgart and especially Stuttgart - Karlsruhe due to the roadworks and frequent traffic jams, there was another reason, I had to drop something off in Zurich.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

How about this: 16.30 hr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The A59 west of Den Bosch in 2004: Concrete pavement. Rare, but not unique in the Netherlands.


----------



## Timon91

^^The A1 from the A35 to De Lutte (German border) is also made of concrete.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Also an unique feature, a motorway interchange with traffic lights. There are still a few of these in the Netherlands; Interchanges Julianaplein, Leenderheide, Hooipolder, Europaplein & Ekkersrijt. There is also an uncontrolled roundabout near Joure. 

This is interchange Hooipolder A27 goes on top, freeflow, but the A59 has traffic lights.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A really long rushhour today. It just ended (10.15 pm).

Red: number of traffic jams
Yellow: accumulated length of traffic jams


----------



## Verso

^^ Peak at 6 pm? Isn't that a little late? How long do you guys work? Usual here is 8-16h.


----------



## Des

Verso said:


> ^^ Peak at 6 pm? Isn't that a little late? How long do you guys work? Usual here is 8-16h.


9 to 17h is regular working time but due to traffic jams some people work 10-18h or 8 - 16h also.

I left work at 18:45 today and still spend about one hour in traffic jams. Took me 1 hour and 45 minutes to get home instead of 45.


----------



## Jeroen669

Verso said:


> ^^ Peak at 6 pm? Isn't that a little late? How long do you guys work? Usual here is 8-16h.


If everybody would do that here traffic jams would be at least twice as long, I think. Fortunately more and more people are getting flexible work schedules.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ The downside of that is that rushhours have fewer traffic jams, but they last longer. The earliest jams start already around 6 am, while the last few commute traffic jams end at the end of the morning, though it's mostly clear around 10 am. It already starts between 2 and 3 pm, and usually last to after 7 pm.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The entire Netherlands is gridlocked. 200 minutes delay to enter Zwolle from the North!

127 traffic jams over 700km of queue


----------



## ChrisZwolle

over 10km:

A1 Blaricum - Muiden 11km
A2 Budel - Leenderheide 12km
A2 Waardenburg - Maasbrug 10km
A6 Almere-Buiten-West - Muiderberg 13km
A7 Avenhorn - Zaandam 22km
A9 Heemskerk - Raasdorp 19km
A12 Nootdorp - Nieuwerbrug 26km
A12 Lunetten - Bodegraven 21km
A13 Prins Clausplein - Berkel en Rodenrijs 12km
A15 Arkel - Ridderkerk-Zuid 29km
A20 Moordrecht - Rotterdam-Centrum 12km
A27 Oosterhout - Nieuwendijk 10km
A27 Geertruidenberg - Sint Annabosch 17km
A28 De Wijk - Hattemerbroek 27km


----------



## ChrisZwolle

850km of traffic jams!


----------



## xlchris

^I just heard it on the news! Not normal anymore! 

Worst ever - With snow +/- 1100km
Today - With snow +/- 850km

That other day, the traffic was stuck all the way from Maastricht (south) to Amsterdam (north). !! Good luck to the people that are standing in the snow!


----------



## Des

Haha, glad I just woke up


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The traffic jams eventually topped out at 900 kilometers. I think it was more than that, because the A2 between Den Bosch and Utrecht had no traffic jams, which is simply impossible, that section is always jammed. I think the traffic jam detection in the roadway didn't work.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This trucker was shitting his pants i guess, hanging 30m above the Meuse river.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This morning traffic jams caused over 10 million € in direct damage for the transportation industry.


----------



## Des

This afternoon they are expecting about 350 km of traffic jams.


----------



## Mateusz

Dutch motorways need widening.


----------



## Jeroen669

Yeah, tell the politicians here...


----------



## Verso

I've just heard this over here too.


----------



## Timon91

xlchrisij said:


> That other day, the traffic was stuck all the way from Maastricht (south) to Amsterdam (north). !! Good luck to the people that are standing in the snow!


It is actually this traffic jam that made Abcoude quite famous. The radio report repeated every hour 4 times: "A2 between Eindhoven and Amsterdam, from Boxtel to Abcoude, 87 km". I was very lucky to know a small route to sneak past the jams.


----------



## Timon91

btw, I recently heard that the A2 between Den Bosch and Eindhoven only exits for about 15 years. Does anyone have pics of the road when it was still the 2-laned N2?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, that section is quite new, however, undersized with frequent traffic jams.

Another thing. Yesterdays traffic jams accumulated over *2100km of queue* according to TomTom. Regular traffic information only includes motorways and only those with automated traffic jam detection. A lot of area's outside the Randstad don't have those detections.


----------



## Timon91

^^Lots of accidents on those "dodenwegen" like the N33?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Video: A28-A32 Staphorst - Steenwijk*
I made a video today of the A28-A32 link just north of Zwolle. It shows an interchange, and various exits and underpasses.


----------



## Timon91

Nice video again, Chris!


----------



## Ni3lS

the photo with the truck on it is famous.  It was also on frontpage of Volkskrant (wednesday)


----------



## Verso

Chriszwolle said:


> *Video: A28-A32 Staphorst - Steenwijk*


Nice. I used to be crazy for interchanges between motorways. Probably b/c in Slovenia we only had 1 until 1995. :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I'm thinking about making a new topic, but i want to include some stuff from this topic in there, but the server speed is kinda slow now, maybe later.


----------



## Timon91

Just wait until the new server is installed. I don't mind waiting a little longer for this page to load


----------



## kosimodo

Chriszwolle said:


> It's not as bad as it looks, all roads, highways, motorways, pavements, parking area's etc, only accumulates for 0,2% of the area of the Netherlands.
> 
> Terms as "paving over a country" are therefore nothing more than ridiculous.


The impact of a road is always much bigger then the road itself....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

kosimodo said:


> The impact of a road is always much bigger then the road itself....


Of course it is, but some organizations let you feel like the entire area is being destroyed/wasted by a 6m wide road. :nuts:

Like the "milieudefensie" (environmental defense) drawings of the A6-A9 were drawed like 10km wide in reality.


----------



## Timon91

^^But of course we must not forget that NL is a flat country, so a highway is clearly visible from a few km. And living near a highway is not very nice, but you get used to it. My town is packed up between a 2×3 highway (it is being rebuild to a 2×5), and a 4 track railway, so I know what I'm talking about. I wouldn't really mind the new A6-A9 connection, as long as they build some good soundbarriers. However, I seem to be the only one in my town....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, the impact of a motorway is generally hugely overrated. Like when there is a proposal, you immediatly hear of "valleys" "unique natural area's" etc, where you have never heard of before. 

Another issue is small particle pollution. If you live more than 100m away from a motorway, you have nothing to worry about, the pollution from traffic is at that distance not higher than the usual background concentrations. You can even better live right next to a motorway in Drenthe or Overijssel, than in the Green Hart natural area, far away from motorways. 

Besides that, there is noise pollution, but generally, homes further than 300 m away with free sight on the motorway are meeting the (strict) noise levels of 48 dB.


----------



## Timon91

^^Poor people in Maastricht, who live next to the N2 traffic lights....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, a 50 limit with traffic lights & congestion is worse for air quality than freeflow 120km/h freeway with a lot more traffic per day.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> *Q1 2008: 6.3% more traffic jams*
> 
> On March 24th, it seems that the endless growth of traffic jams was slowed down to only one percent compared to the first quarter of 2007. But the March 25th traffic chaos changed everything, that day alone accumulated for 4.5% of the traffic jam growth in the entire Q1 of 2008.
> 
> The first quarter of 2008 accumulated a 6.3% growth of traffic jams compared to last year. The A4 near Leiden is not the number one traffic jam spot anymore, the A2 near Culemborg has taken that position.
> 
> Tuesday is the busiest day, however, the number of traffic jams increased with 30% on fridays.
> 
> The top 10:
> 1	^	67317	A2	Utrecht -> 's-Hertogenbosch	Culemborg
> 2	*	59653	A4	Amsterdam -> Delft	Bridge across Oude Rijn
> 3	^	55935	A12	Utrecht -> Den Haag	Nieuwerbrug
> 4	v	53676	A10	De Nieuwe Meer -> Coenplein	Coenplein
> 5	^	51342	A15	Rozenburg -> Ridderkerk	Vaanplein
> 6	*	48093	A27	Gorinchem -> Breda	Merwedebridge
> 7	^	43059	A50	Arnhem -> Oss	Ewijk
> 8	*	41745	A20	Hoek van Holland -> Gouda	Terbregseplein
> 9	*	40532	A2	Amsterdam -> Utrecht	Utrecht-Centrum
> 10	v	39265	A2	Utrecht -> 's-Hertogenbosch	Hedel


March 25th totalled at 852km of queue, however, it lasted half the day.


----------



## CborG

Whoopidoo, we're number one again!!:cheer::tyty:
:toilet:


----------



## H123Laci

Chriszwolle said:


> It's not as bad as it looks, all roads, highways, motorways, pavements, parking area's etc, only accumulates for 0,2% of the area of the Netherlands.
> 
> Terms as "paving over a country" are therefore nothing more than ridiculous.



the 0,2% ratio seems too low to me.

there is about 30.000km national road in Hungary.
taking an average 6m width it is about 180km2 (30.000x0.006)
only this network is 0,2% of the country's area (90.000km2)

and I have not counted the road network of the populated areas (towns, villages). this is about 40.000km. 
and we have more than 100.000km unpaved roads.

So this "pavement ratio" easily can be 1%, but it is really far from "paving the country"


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I was not completely clear, the 0,2% is meant for national roads, which carry 50% of all traffic mileage. Total land usage of transport is near 4%, but this also includes airports and railway stations.


----------



## H123Laci

Chriszwolle said:


> March 25th totalled at 852km of queue, however, it lasted half the day.



reading this thread was a big surprise to me hearing that you are in a so serious (traffic) troubble.

will you be able to get out of it?

you have to compensate very considerable amount of undone development.


----------



## Timon91

^^We are trying by expanding several highways, like the A2 from Amsterdam to Utrecht, which is 2×3 at the moment, is being rebuilt to a 2×5 highway, which will entirely be finished in 2012.
Have a look over here, a photo report of the A2. It is not that good, due to the weather conditions.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=19215923&postcount=939
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=19216266&postcount=940


----------



## H123Laci

Timon Kruijk said:


> ^^We are trying by expanding several highways, like the A2 from Amsterdam to Utrecht, which is 2×3 at the moment, is being rebuilt to a 2×5 highway, which will entirely be finished in 2012.
> Have a look over here, a photo report of the A2. It is not that good, due to the weather conditions.


^^ And what about the other heavily congested motorways?
When will these be expanded/widened?

What is this "land tunnel"?
It seems to me a covered section (on the surface)

only for noise protection it is too expensive.
you have quite massive noise barriers. 
why don't they build noise barriers intstead of "tunnel"?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ People often become NIMBY's when there is a proposal of new motorway. Otherwise, the air quality regulations are way too strict, any development is hard to execute, and most major projects in housing and roadways suffer huge delays. There are a few motorway missing-links where they are talking about for decades. Besides that, even widening of a motorway is a long-term project. 

Some people have the profession to object juridically against the motorway, they are usually in service of the organization "Milieudefensie" (environmental defense), a radical environmentalist group who might be responsible for most traffic jams still existing. They see any kind of road improvement as wrong, and are willing to do any kind of juridical objection. Usually, projects got delayed or cancelled because of minor mistakes in surveys, like signatures, dates or minor miscalculations.

Can you believe these guys are even subsidized by our own government? We pay those suckers with taxes to delay public infrastructural projects. :bash:


----------



## Jeroen669

Milieudefensie is just the biggest shame of our country.


----------



## H123Laci

Chriszwolle;19440984[/QUOTE said:


> The situation is exactly the same in hungary... :gaah:
> 
> Fortunately our greenies don't bother with the countryside, they concentrate on Budapest. (this is their HQ...)
> 
> So the M0 (beltway of BP) builds very slowly, and maybe it won't be a full ring.


----------



## Qaabus

Saba


----------



## H123Laci

^^ nice photos, but haven't you missed the thread?

Maybe you wanted to put them here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=599929


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Saba is part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands.


----------



## H123Laci

Chriszwolle said:


> Saba is part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands.


oops. sorry. I didn't know that... :doh:

it was too mountaineous to be in the Netherlands...


----------



## Verso

We want more.


----------



## Timon91

^^Me too, I've never seen pics of the Netherlands Antilles before.


----------



## CborG

On Curacao, there is a small stretch that can be classefied as expressway, grade-seperated and 2x2 lanes





































The Juliana bridge carries this road high over the harbour entrance:










look here (googlemaps):
http://maps.google.nl/?ie=UTF8&ll=12.113075,-68.934644&spn=0.004149,0.007167&t=k&z=18

Local roads on Curacao:



















Willemstad, Curacao:










roadsignage on Aruba, very dutch!:
















































Signage on Curacao:










An old dutch sign on Curacao:










Some roads on Aruba:














Dutch traffic lights:









Some pics of Bonaire:





































Scenic roads on Saba:



















The main highway to Saba intl. Airport


----------



## Timon91

^^Great pics! Indeed some very dutch signage.


----------



## CborG

Main roads on Aruba:


----------



## CborG

Some main roads on Curacao:





































Not so shiny crash barriers:


----------



## CborG

Roads on St. Eustatius, another dutch island:


----------



## Jeroen669

Great pictures! It's really funny to see the traffic signs and the signage looks practicly the same as in Holland. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Jeroen669 said:


> It's really funny to see the traffic signs and the signage looks practicly the same as in Holland.


Only in Holland, or also the other 10 provinces?


----------



## Timon91

The first pic of St. Eustatius looks like a narrow Reichsautobahn.


----------



## Timon91

Chriszwolle said:


> Only in Holland, or also the other 10 provinces?


As far as I know Holland consists of Noord-Holland, Zuid-Holland and Utrecht, Chris.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> Holland is a region in the western part of the Netherlands. A maritime and economic power in the 17th century, Holland today consists of the Dutch provinces of North Holland and South Holland.





> "Holland" is a part of the Netherlands. "Holland" is informally and quite incorrectly used in English and other languages, including sometimes the Dutch language itself, to mean the whole of the modern country of the Netherlands.




I don't think "Holland" is the proper word to mention the whole Netherlands. Dutchmen often make this mistake to by saying "i'm from Holland" or sending a postcard to "Holland".


----------



## Jeroen669

^^ Yeah, I agree. But since most of the foreigners use "Holland" it's clear which country is meant.


----------



## Timon91

I know that, I always use "I'm from the Netherlands" instead of "I'm from Holland". And you're right about the two provinces, I also looked it up on the internet. Actually I can see the "border of Holland" right now.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Jeroen669 said:


> ^^ Yeah, I agree. But since most of the foreigners use "Holland" it's clear which country is meant.


But it's technically not correct. It's like someone from Munich saying he's from Sachsen or something. 

However, Holland is indeed a broad used term for meantioning the whole Netherlands. 



> Actually I can see the "border of Holland" right now.


Is there a customs checkpoint on the A2?


----------



## Timon91

^^Oh yes, there is a 23 km long traffic jam right now, and for lorries it takes a few days to cross this border


----------



## Verso

In Slovenia I haven't heard anyone saying Holland (Holandija) for some 15 years, always Netherlands (Nizozemska) -> we're well educated. 

Very interesting pics from the Kingdom of the Netherlands!


----------



## Mateusz

Well, in Poland we are calling Holandia (Holland). I never head anyone saying Niderlandy (Netherlands)


----------



## Timon91

In Albanian it is Holanda.


----------



## LochNESS

It's true, in some countries Holland is the only name for our country. But the Netherlands is the only official name. Then again, naming conventions can be quite hard. Especially when you consider the Netherlands are one of the two countries which capital is not the seat of government also. So 2 names for one country, and 2 cities which both can claim in one way or another that they are 'capital'

Thanks for all the pictures of the Dutch Antilles. Never been there but it's great to see such pictures. 

As for our motorways, I don't have a car. But I really like them. They are IMO way better then many motorways in other countries, even here in Europe. They are nice and smooth, and usually quite sufficient for what they do. But there is one big problem and that is peak capicity (sic) I can see the A13 (from Rotterdam to The Hague) here from my window and I often tend to check if the trafficreports are correct. At least if the jam is really there. And most of the time one is there. I can also see the flyovers etc from my balcony and it's very impressive to see those trucks driving 'in the air' (the viaduct is hidden by trees)

On the other hand, the railways which I tend to use are often not much better with delays, although that is improving quite a bit. While the trafficjams only get worse.

The solution to our trafficjams? I would not know. More tarmac seems a solution but that is a temporarily one as you can have only so much. I think that having a better supporting network would be better, many 'regional' roads here are motorways also. We have most motorways per km2 in the world, but unlike our neigbours like germany we don't have alternative routes which can be a HUGE bottleneck.


----------



## Timon91

^^Those "Umleitung" signs at every German exit could be a solution for the Netherlands (and then especailly for Holland )


----------



## kosimodo

LOL, confusions enough about the Netherlands. 

I come from Friesland. Thats in the north of the Netherlands... 

When in Denmark.. i should say 'i am from the north of Holland...' Thats very confusing cause one of the provinces of the Netherlands is called North Holland and is located in the 'west' of the Netherlands... 

I never say Holland myself..

Funny thing i heard about the dutch railways... 'De Hollandske Nederlandse Spoorwegen'


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Timon Kruijk said:


> ^^Those "Umleitung" signs at every German exit could be a solution for the Netherlands (and then especailly for Holland )


There are a few of those routes actually.


----------



## Timon91

^^Really? Where?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Check here (Flevoland, Gelderland and Limburg


----------



## Timon91

^^Thanks, I've really never seen them before. Ok, I go to Limburg about once a year, Gelderland only to travel through, and Flevoland to play matches. I'm surprised we have that in NL. Does it help when there are traffic jams?


----------



## Wuppeltje

LochNESS said:


> It's true, in some countries Holland is the only name for our country. But the Netherlands is the only official name. Then again, naming conventions can be quite hard. Especially when you consider the Netherlands are one of the two countries which capital is not the seat of government also. So 2 names for one country, and 2 cities which both can claim in one way or another that they are 'capital'


Although it can be for some people a little bit confusing, I think our capital city is pretty clear. Claiming that The Hague is the capical city hard, especially because in our constitution it is named as the capital city (Amsterdam).


----------



## Jeroen669

It's the same way as people here tend to say England, while meaning the UK. Officially it's just a part of the country, but everyone knows what you're talking about.


----------



## Timon91

^^Or "America", when referring to the USA


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*[NL] Dutch Highways & Autosnelwegen # II*

*Previous thread*








*
Some of my roadpics. (Complete overview here.)*

A1/A28 Amsterdam - Zwolle
N14-N44-A44-A4 Den Haag - Amsterdam
A28 Zwolle - Assen
A37 Hoogeveen - Meppen
A37 Meppen - Hoogeveen
A37/A28 Emmen - Zwolle
N9 Alkmaar - Den Helder
N31 Leeuwarden - Drachten
N34 Ommen - Coevorden
N34 Gieten - Emmen
N35 Zwolle - Almelo
N35 Gronau - Zwolle
N48 Hoogeveen - Ommen
N69 Neerpelt - Eindhoven
N99 Den Helder - Den Oever
N224 Arnhem - Woudenberg
N241 Schagen - Hoorn
N242 Alkmaar - Middenmeer
N243 Hoorn - Alkmaar
N245 Alkmaar - Schagen
N248 Wieringerwerf - Schagen
N250 Den Helder
N278 Maastricht - Vaals
N281 Heerlen
N298 Hoensbroek - Valkenburg
N302 Hoorn - Kootwijk
N305 Almere - Dronten
N310 Elburg - Arnhem
N331 Zwolle - Emmeloord
N333 Steenwijk - Marknesse
N334 Zwartsluis - Steenwijk
N337 Deventer - Zwolle
N340 Ommen - Zwolle
N345 Apeldoorn - Zutphen
N346 Hengelo - Zutphen
N348 Zutphen - Ommen
N349 Almelo - Denekamp
N359 Lemmer - Leeuwarden
N371 Meppel - Assen
N374 Stadskanaal - Hoogeveen
N375 Zwartsluis - Pesse
N376 Nieuw-Amsterdam - Rolde
N377 Hasselt - Coevorden
N378 Gasselte - Stadskanaal
N381 Emmen - Drachten
N382 Coevorden
N756 Raalte - Wijhe
N757 Dalfsen - Wijthmen
N758 Zwolle - Nieuwleusen
N759 Hasselt - Genemuiden
N760 Genemuiden - IJsselmuiden
N762 Weerribben
N763 Wezep - Kampen
N764 Kampen - Zwolle

*Youtube movies:*

*Netherlands:*
A1 Deventer - Apeldoorn
A1 Apeldoorn - Deventer
A2 Utrecht
A2 Geleen - Maastricht
A10 Amsterdam
A12 Utrecht
A12 Arnhem
A28 Wezep - Ommen (Zwolle throughway)
A28 Nieuwleusen - Zwolle
A28 Wezep - Zwolle-Centrum
A35 Hengelo - Wierden
A44 - A4 Leiden - Amsterdam
N11 Alphen aquaduct
N14 The Hague
N44 The Hague - Leiden
N50 Island bridge Kampen
N331 Hasselterweg Zwolle
N337 IJsselallee Zwolle (RING)
N764 mill bridge Kampen
Reconstructed Spoolderbergweg Zwolle
social housing suburb drive in Zwolle
Zwolle-Stadshagen suburban drive
Zwolle - Hattem drive incl. ancient bridge
Hattem - Wezep drive nature & wealth
Zwolle-Westenholte: lost in suburbia?

Number of lanes on Dutch motorways:


Reconstruction of the A2 near Den Bosch to 4x2 lanes:









Roads with traffic over 55,000 AADT









Widened A12 near Utrecht 









Dutch driving:









Widest road in the Netherlands: A16 Ridderkerk.









Truckmania in the Netherlands (A28 picture)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

New thread

Please continue discussing there.


----------



## Timon91

^^The dutch driving pic over here is on the A2, near Abcoude.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

My city this afternoon:










It took me 45 minutes to complete the 14km between Zwolle-South and Zwolle-North without getting on the freeway.


----------



## H123Laci

Chriszwolle said:


> It took me 45 minutes to complete the 14km between Zwolle-South and Zwolle-North without getting on the freeway.



wow.
that's nonsense... :nuts:
How can you tolerate this?

(maybe the traffic situation in Budapest is not as wrong as it seems... :?)


(and what about the old topic?)


----------



## H123Laci

Chriszwolle said:


> *
> Reconstruction of the A2 near Den Bosch to 4x2 lanes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


*


This is a very interesting project.

But I have questions about it:

- why are you widening this strech to 4x2 (with the inner 2x2 exclusively for transit traffic) instead of building a bypass route (a new alignment for the A2)for the transit traffic to push it away from the town?

here is a sketch (showing a proposed A2 and A59 bypass route):










what is your opinion about this bypass routes?
(advantages/disadvantages)

----------------------------
we have the same dilemma at Budapest.

the situation is the following:

the souther sector of the M0 ringroad of BP (BLACK line) carries heavy transit traffic (this is the IV. helsinki corridor) and heavy local and commuting traffic too on a 2x2 expressway with no emergency lane.

so it is heavily congested and unsafe.

we will widen it to a 2x3+em.lane motorway soon.
it will increase the capacity and safety, but will not separate the transit and local traffic.
(the 4x2 option was never considered)

So we are arguing on what to do with the fast increasing transit traffic.

My opinion is that we should build a bypass only a little farther (RED line)
this is a relatively short (so relatively cheap) route and it could separate the transit and local traffic effectively on the M0 and would be benefical for the agglomeration too.

But - unfurtunately - there are no official plan for this bypass.

Instead of it there are plans for a more farther, more longer (and therefore more expensive) bypass. (GREEN line)
and it has a little flaw: it is not a real bypass, because it does not connect to the M1 at Győr. (the BLUE route is only a 2lane secondary road and there is no plan to upgrade it to a motorway.

So what is your opinion of this situation?

(sorry for being a little bit off topic...  

here is a sketch of the mentioned alignments:








*


----------



## Majestic

The route for Den Bosch bypass seems to be very well-planned. It could ease thru-city traffic and it does not collide with any urban development. I guess NIMBYs and costs might be the problem.

And the green bypass of Budapest, now that is totally ridiculous man! Bypass without connection to the motorway network? That's got to be a joke! I hope they won't make it happen! :bash:
I think that widening of the current M0 is still a good idea. You should take advantage of the fact that there is a lot of spare space for adding new lanes, so the costs won't be that high. Nevertheless, a 2x3 for local and 2x2 for thru-traffic combined would work better than plain 2x3


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The problem is, that transit traffic is only a marginal part of the total traffic volumes. That way, you can only solve problems by widening the existing road, building a new one creates unnecessary barriers, and a disintergration of the existing open landscapes. 

In the Budapest case, i think there is quite a few transit traffic, but on the total volumes (don't know how busy the M0 is), it's usually only a small part. What about adding another bridge to the M0 crossing? Budapest is quite large, and has only one major bypass. That creates a large traffic flow.


----------



## CborG

I was thinking to post all motorway and road plans in NL here but maybe it's an idea to create a new topic dedicated to future plans, construction and widening projects, this topic can then be used for info, pics and discussions about excisting roads and such.

tell me what you think


----------



## Verso

Interesting part of the Netherlands. Boggy areas are usually poorer though. Does it also hold in this case?

And what is this?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

These area's are just rural, not necessarily poorer, however they are considered to be poorer, or better said, having a growing elderly population, because all youth moves to the larger cities like Groningen. It also has a higher than average unemployment, however, it's not that bad.

About that thing near the road; i have no idea, it seems to be some kind of art.


----------



## Timon91

Chriszwolle said:


> I drove across 55 roundabouts today
> 
> Rotondomania is a serious issue in my opinion. They are great for low speed roads, but the Netherlands is really "paved over" with roundabouts these days, to use a certain term not uncommon by some people.


Have you ever driven in the UK? I've driven 800km over 2 lane roads over there, and crossed some 350 roundabouts. And of course not only simple roundabouts, but also 3-in-1 roundabouts. Crazy!


----------



## Jeroen669

Yeah, but in most foreign countries usual round-abouts are not designed so awfully small as here.



Verso said:


> Boggy areas are usually poorer though.


It's not really the case here. I come from a small village which is "very remote" for dutch standards. As Chris said, unemployment is just a bit higher, but further there are no big differences in wealth.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, it's not like they're Amish or something


----------



## Verso

Ok, my bad. Boggy areas usually LOOK poorer.  And more messy... What's in your avatar, Chris?


----------



## Jeroen669

The dutch flag with a traffic sign 'watch out, traffic jam' in it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Verso meant my previous one, which i had very short, it was the flag of Los Angeles


----------



## Verso

Yeah, I meant that one. Interesting, I'd never seen it. Your current avatar isn't completely symmetric.


----------



## Koesj

Haha I pass that particular road between Valthermond and the road to Borger at least one time a week going to my parents' place. The stange concrete object is indeed a piece of art, beats me why it was built there though...

The problem with these locales is that there are very deep education gaps between them and the rest of the Netherlands. I can't really talk too much about it but the quality of primary education here can be very derpessing hno:


----------



## CborG

Chriszwolle said:


> Yeah, 90% of those plans won't be completed in 20 years.


I've edited the list, is it better now?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Oldschool traffic jams:

(81 traffic jams, 416km)


----------



## Eric Offereins

You should have posted the picture on the day after easter (890 km of chaos)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I did  It's in the older thread.


----------



## Timon91

Are there any current plans to fill up all the gaps of the A4?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N351 Oosterwolde - Wolvega - Emmeloord - Urk*

*N351 > 82 pics*

I drove the entire N351 this saturday, a diagonal route in Friesland and Flevoland, and a minimal section in Overijssel. The road is largely limited to 80km/h, but west of Wolvega, people drove quite faster than that. The road is dead straight in Flevoland.










*N351 > 82 pics*


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There was an Ammonia leak in the distribution center of a major supermarket chain in my city today. Actually a few hundred meters from my work, but i just worked outside the evacuation zone. 

However, the DC was closed for a few hours, resulting in endless lines of trucks jamming up half the southside of Zwolle. I took this pic with my phone:


----------



## kosimodo

Seen on the A10 round Amsterdam....










'Even Apeldoorn bellen' is a slogan of an insurancecompagny saying so much as 'only need 2 call Apeldoorn....'


----------



## Verso

^^ Dangerous.


----------



## Timon91

:shitithinkihavetakenthewrongturn: :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Is this the real deal or a photoshop picture?


----------



## ABRob

Chriszwolle said:


> Is this the real deal or a photoshop picture?


It's real - but drawn on the back of the bus.
So it's not the real front of the bus.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, i know it's painted on the back of the bus, but maybe it was photoshopped anyway.


----------



## Timon91

This could scare some drivers....


----------



## Des

Haha don't think this is allowed! But it's funny and a quality commercial once again!


----------



## Timon91

^^Indeed, "Even Apeldoorn bellen" always has funny commercials. 
Today I went to Almere again, the Hollandse brug (A6) is still chaotic, traffic jams on a quiet sunday afternoon! It might have something to do with traffic going to the Amsterdam Arena, to see Ajax, but two weeks ago it was also chaos. I hope they finish it soon.


----------



## Timon91

Yesterday I made a small road trip on the A1 from Amsterdam to Garderen, just past Amersfoort. I made about 30 pics, which I will post when I've solved my computer problem.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another fuel record, € 1,574 per liter for petrol, which is about 9.4 dollars per gallon.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The first study to widen the A1 and A27 motorways have been given the green light.

The A1 study encompasses the widening from 2x2 to 2x4 lanes between Amersfoort and IC Eemnes, and the A27 widening from 2x2 to 2x3 lanes from Utrecht to IC Eemnes. 

Both routes are frequently jammed over the entire length of the study section.


----------



## Timon91

^^What about the A1 between Amsterdam and Amersfoort? I drove there last saturday, it really needs resurfacing, it was quite bad. And also overcrowded too, of course.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There is very little space on that section, especially between IC Eemnes and Naarden. It's only feasible to construct 2x3 without shoulders there. I don't like that, because the section is a blackspot. Maybe something doubeldecking (below grade), however, that's quite expensive, but then again, this freeway is in one of the richest parts of the Netherlands.


----------



## Des

Chriszwolle said:


> There is very little space on that section, especially between IC Eemnes and Naarden. It's only feasible to construct 2x3 without shoulders there. I don't like that, because the section is a blackspot. Maybe something doubeldecking (below grade), however, that's quite expensive, but then again, this freeway is in one of the richest parts of the Netherlands.


Ideal would be to build one big tunnel there but I don't think it's possible because there are no alternatives for the traffic to go during the contruction. After uprgading all the highways in the area this could be the biggest bottleneck on the A1 for years to come.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Traffic volume is between 104,000 and 114,000 on a typical workday. On 2x2 lanes. That means capacity is fully used during 13 hours of the day. (of course, that's an average, it actually operates beyond capacity during peak hours). Traffic jams can occur at any time of the day there.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Of all 120 infrastructure projects since 1986, constructing a road took an average *11 years. *


----------



## Des

Chriszwolle said:


> Of all 120 infrastructure projects since 1986, constructing a road took an average *11 years. *


hno:


----------



## Wuppeltje

An interesting plan was presented by our minister of Transportation and Water Management to lower those 11 years to about 5-6 years.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, and 3 years for less high priority projects. I hope it works, because nowadays, if you want to widen a road, and it's finished 11 years later, it's not enough by then, because we keep constructing large new housing developments.

They want to widen the A1 from 2x2 to 2x4 instantly, so you can already see how far it operates beyond capacity. That will worsen because they're building quite some new neighborhoods in the area around Amersfoort.


----------



## Timon91

^^The A1 will be one big mess if they do that. They better make the A6-A9 connection first, before they start widening the A1. But due to environmentalists and our great politicians that will take another 8978927347234723847287389000000000 years to get finishedhno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The construction of the 2nd Coentunnel in the A10 motorway has been awarded. The Coentunnel will be doubled from 2x2 to 2x4 lanes. 

It is said that the air quality report alone counted over a thousand pages. :weird::crazy::doh::scouserd::runaway:


----------



## Timon91

^^When will it be finished? 2067?


----------



## Jeroen669

^^ You're way too optimistic.


----------



## Timon91

True, I guess that the government Balkenende CCCLXXVIII sees something in this plans :lol:
But seriously, when is it planned to be finished?


----------



## CborG

I love my job, especially with the current weather we have here. I made some pics of the route i took to a school in Doorn, a village 15km north of Culemborg. It's not all crowded and busy here in the Netherlands as you will see:

the route on a map:










On the dike, north of the river Lek:










A road towards the bridge over the Amsterdam-Rijnkanaal:



















Driving under the bridge:










Fruitgardens in blossom:










I took a right turn here, Doorn 12km:



















On the bridge, i can't think of any bridge of this size that is as quiet as this one:










The canal, in the distance is another bridge visible. I'm told that they had to built a bridge every 10-15km over the canal to avoid huge detours for local farmers and inhabitants. The bridges where designed to be extra high so large containerships could pass underneath. Later it became clear that there was no need for such large ships and now we have several useless oversized bridges as a reminder:










Over the bridge on the road towards Houten, a suburb of Utrecht:










I took a left turn here, towards Cothen and Doorn:










Lovely cottage:










The watertower of Cothen:










Little bridge over the 'Kromme Rijn' (Curvy Rhine) this used to be the main stream of the Rhine river until 1200 or so:



















Nearing the Utrechtse Heuvelrug, an area covered with forests:





































And entering Doorn on the N225:


----------



## Koesj

^^ Stunning! I haven't seen these parts of the country yet


----------



## PLH

How do you drive on such roads?

When there is no oncoming traffic then in the middle?


----------



## Jeroen669

Actually, nobody knows for sure... You better just stick to the right on such roads.

Nice pics btw, CborG!


----------



## Verso

Beautiful landscape and nicely rimmed pictures.


----------



## Timon91

Nice pictures. When I go to school, I also drive next to the Amsterdam-Rijnkanaal for about 9 km on my bike. And when going home 9 more, of course.


----------



## PLH

Jeroen669 said:


> Actually, nobody knows for sure...


Wat? Hoe is dit mogelijk?


----------



## Timon91

Zadna wyobrażenie


----------



## PLH

Wat bedoel je precies?

Wyobrażenie betekent idee


Je hebt waarschijnlijk al betekende dat het niet moeilijk?




Dutch rocks!


----------



## Jeroen669

PLH said:


> Wat? Hoe is dit mogelijk?


Hehe. Well, those red lanes officially called "fietssuggestiestroken". Something like 'a suggestion for bicyclists to drive on this lane'. :nuts: You have to let the bicyclists feel free on this lanes (you are not allowed to block it), but you also need to (just as in every right-driving country) keep right. So that's contrary... But you ARE allowed to use the red markings, so the police can never get you on that. Only if the lines are undashed you're forbidden to drive there. But in that case the normal part is usually wide enough for 2 vehicles passing each other.

The reality: people just drive on the red markings (if dashed). Also since a lot of these roads are too busy to drive in the middle of the road.


----------



## Timon91

PLH said:


> Wat bedoel je precies?
> 
> Wyobrażenie betekent idee
> 
> 
> Je hebt waarschijnlijk al betekende dat het niet moeilijk?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dutch rocks!


I tried to say "no idea", but my Polish isn't what it has been. How come you speak dutch so well. Btw, what do you mean with your last sentence?


----------



## PLH

x 2 ^^ That is tricky

Ang what if there is a bend, so you need to stick to right side, but in the same time you must drive slowly enough not to hit a potential cyclist over the corner

:nuts:



Timon Kruijk said:


> I tried to say "no idea", but my Polish isn't what it has been. How come you speak dutch so well. Btw, what do you mean with your last sentence?


So you used to speak Polish?
If You want to say "no idea" it would be like this:

Nie mam pojecia
or
Nie mam zielonego pojęcia(I have no green idea) 

-----

Well, with the last sentence I meant that You probably wanted to say that it is nothing difficult to understand how to drive on such roads, but it eventually turned to sound a bit awkward, actually I did not even finish this sentence:doh:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Busy holiday traffic today. The first 20km traffic jam has already popped up at the A27 motorway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle




----------



## Realek

^^

What's that site?


----------



## CborG

I don't excactly know which site Chris uses but www.filenieuws.nl is almost the same.


----------



## Realek

thnx

still busy on the A27 i see... where exactly most people go?


----------



## Timon91

I think it is the ANWB site. A lot of traffic going to Belgium today. A lot of people go on holiday now, because the schools are off for 2 weeks. I'm off too, but I'm staying home, unfortunately.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

www.traphic.nl


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I went to Sneek today. You pronounce that as "snake" though it doesn't mean the same 

A new section of the A7 has opened a few days ago, including an aqueduct, however it's quite substandard with 80km/h curves and very few hard shoulder. But check it yourself:

(comments are in Dutch):

Vandaag maar even naar Snake geweest.

1. Einde van de A7 vanuit Joure.









2. Dijklichamen bij de toekomstige flyover.









3. Laatste HM-paaltje van de huidige A7









4. Nieuwe ongelijkvloerse kruising in Sneek.









5. Andere kant (zuiden)









6. Hier begint de nieuwe A7 (Autoweg Vmax=80)









7. Het nieuwe aquaduct









8. Het aquaduct is behoorlijk steil









9. Aquaduct en TX (Texas of Texel?)









10. Laagste punt









11. En weer omhoog









12. Helaas nog geen permanente bewegwijzering te bewonderen.









13. Staat wel als A7 bewegwijzerd en met A7 HM-paaltjes









14. Harrypaaltje









15. Afrit 20, de oude afrit (verkeerslichten) zijn vervallen.









16. Echt een snelweg lijkt het niet.









17. Dus maar pech hebben op de invoegstrook.









18. Je doet niet meer mee zonder nieuw bedrijventerrein tegenwoordig.









19. Aardig scherpe bocht.









20. Einde projectgebied.









21. BONUS: Een nieuw aquaduct in de N354 tussen Sneek en Woudsend.


----------



## Ni3lS

I saw that traffic jam yesterday!  amazing! ( Only because monday there was a traffic jam in Belgium and I was in it.. :bash We drove by bus 10 km in 5 hours. Terrible. I was 3 am english time in Beckenham ( London ) Had a nice week  Yesterday driving back and we saw this traffic jam  It was also very busy on Ring Utrecht.


----------



## Timon91

It looks a bit like a Polish S-road.


----------



## Des

Nice pics Chris! Haven't been to Sneek for a while, looks like a big improvement! But upgrading the intersection with the road to Woudsend will be a tough task! 

For more info about this project check out: http://www.a7sneek.nl


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Timon Kruijk said:


> It looks a bit like a Polish S-road.


Well, it's not really worth an A-number, since it has a 80km/h speed limit, tight curves and virtually no hard shoulders. I think they've done it for continuity when the whole bypass of Sneek has become grade-separated. 

The last pic is not on the A7 by the way, it's a new aqueduct south of Sneek. Those aqueducts are popping up all over the province of Friesland, since they have a lot of canals, lakes and other water bodies, and a lot of yachts shipping around.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Timon Kruijk said:


> I think it is the ANWB site. A lot of traffic going to Belgium today. A lot of people go on holiday now, because the schools are off for 2 weeks. I'm off too, but I'm staying home, unfortunately.


My friend spend 4 hours on a 120km drive from Utrecht to Hengelo friday. That's just nuts.


----------



## Mateusz

Widening, widening and widening


----------



## SmarterChild

Chriszwolle said:


> My friend spend 4 hours on a 120km drive from Utrecht to Hengelo friday. That's just nuts.


Did he go by horse and carriage?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You would think huh.

No, there was a monster traffic jam on the A1 motorway between Apeldoorn and Markelo. The shoulder was full of parked trucks which run out of driving time.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Traffic jam on the A28 north of Hoogeveen i saw today:


----------



## xlchris

I went from Hoofddorp to Utrecht yesterday evening. It was a beautiful night, I hate myself for not bringing the camera with me hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Yeah i used to forget to bring my camera to work often. Quite stupid since i'm nearly every day on the road. (besides commuting).


----------



## Timon91

Today I drove over the A2 again (Amsterdam-Utrecht). Work is really progressing over here. It really looks like it's going to finish on time! I guess in a few weeks (months) the traffic will be moved to the new carriageway for a few km, just north of exit Maarssen. It has been lined and the road signs have been placed. I can't wait to drive over it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They expect 800 trucks on the hard shoulder at the A1 near the German border Thursday. I hope the weather is okay so i can make a video


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's gonna be fun, 15km of this view:


----------



## H123Laci

Chriszwolle said:


> It's gonna be fun, 15km of this view:


It's not so funny for the truckers... hno:

- how long do they have to wait there?
- and what about hygiene? (toilett and shower)

that reminds me to the balkan not western europe...


----------



## Jeroen669

H123Laci said:


> - how long do they have to wait there?


Until 22:00, so never longer than 22 hours.



H123Laci said:


> - and what about hygiene? (toilett and shower)


What would you think yourself?

Btw, I heard Chris saying most of these truckers are from eastern europe.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Poland mostly, and some Russian and Ukrainian truckers. Rarely a German or Dutch one.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This guy was ticketed for speeding in a very strange way. He did 137km/h at the moment of the picture:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Future A1 east of Amsterdam: widening from 7 lanes to 12 lanes. 7 lanes in rushhour direction.


----------



## ABRob

Chriszwolle said:


> Future A1 east of Amsterdam: widening from 7 lanes to 12 lanes. 7 lanes in rushhour direction.


Wow. And, is it enough for the prognosticated traffic?

So, that means that the A9-A6 linking is dead!?


----------



## Timon91

^^It has been put aside yes, and as soon as they start talking about it, the nimby's come and that delays everything.


----------



## Verso

Randstad - the European capital of wide highways.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Verso said:


> Randstad - the European capital of wide highways.


Dream on. The current situation is the opposite. hno:




> Wow. And, is it enough for the prognosticated traffic?


I doubt it. Almere has a projected growth from 180.000 inhabitants to 350.000 inhabitants. Besides that, new developments around Amersfoort also add more traffic. I am still in favor of the A6-A9 link combined with road widening of the A1.


----------



## Timon91

^^Actually the whole A1 needs widening.


----------



## Verso

Chriszwolle said:


> Dream on. The current situation is the opposite. hno:


How many km of at least 8-lane motorways are there in Randstad? I believe more than in any other European metropolitan area. Distances as such are small in the Netherlands though, and limited by the sea in the west. Damn, the London beltway is already 200 km, hmm..


----------



## Timon91

Not a lot I believe, just a very small part of the A4 and a part of the A12, but Chris knows more about this...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Only a few kilometers are 8 laned or more. This include the A4 Badhoevedorp - Burgerveen, A12 Oudenrijn - Lunetten, A27 Lunetten - Rijnsweerd, A16 Terbregseplein - Ridderkerk, A15 Ridderkerk - Vaanplein, and some other stubs. Together less than 40 kilometers i think.


----------



## Verso

Ok, then I was obviously too impressed with those 10-lane highways you have.


----------



## Timon91

^^Come on, we will have a 30 km 10-laned highway within 4 years.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Verso said:


> Ok, then I was obviously too impressed with those 10-lane highways you have.


Those 7 kilometers near Schiphol? :lol:


----------



## Verso

^^ You're right, you guys suck.


----------



## Cymen

ABRob said:


> Wow. And, is it enough for the prognosticated traffic?
> 
> So, that means that the A9-A6 linking is dead!?


The lenght of the rush hour will be shortened. Other then that there will be little improvement a few years after completion. Considering 50% of the outgoing people in Almere take the train each morning, much also depends on the train improvements such as 4 rails ...

and a metro towards from Almere Hout -> Pampus to Amsterdam North & Zaandam, which nobody else other then me has ever thought about. :cheers: Should be combined with a regional road btw, from Almere Pampus to the A10 North.


----------



## Jeroen669

^^ Dude, do you know what kind of people are living in Almere Hout? :nuts:

Btw, I don't think it would help that much. Most of the work locations are south of the Ij. 4 tracks between Weesp and Oostvaarders wouldn't be bad, though.


----------



## Timon91

Verso said:


> ^^ You're right, you guys suck.


You needed two years on this forum to find this out?


----------



## Verso

^ It's not two years yet.  I know you have horrible T-jams in NL.


----------



## Jeroen669

It's one of the reasons people tend to emigrate more, here. Actually, we already have one of the highest emigration rates in europe.


----------



## Timon91

^^Most rich move to Belgium, to avoid the high taxes. Finally we found something against the overpopulation


----------



## Jeroen669

I'd never move to Belgium. Nice people there, but the chaos doesn't attract me.  I'd rather move to Germany, or maybe even take the giant step to move to scandinavia...


----------



## Timon91

Will this eventually be motorway from Zurich-Leeuwarden(-Dokkum)?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A new report on congestion is published by the ministry of transport & waterworks.

Between 2000 and 2007, the amount of traffic increased with 13%. However, the average delay in traffic jams increased with 53% during those 7 years.

They also compared similar metropolitan area's with the Randstad, like Rhein-Ruhr, Flemish Diamond and the England Northwest (Liverpool/Manchester). They found out car ownership was the lowest of all in the Randstad, however congestion and traffic volumes were the highest. The Randstad had relatively more lanes, however there are almost no alternative roads in the area, still turning out negative. Truck traffic in the Randstad was lower than in other area's, but traffic volumes overall were higher. 

The traffic jams costed 3.6 billion euro's in lost time, and 24 billion euro's overall. There are relatively many exits on the Randstad freeway system.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

To underline the amount of increased delays, here's a picture.

The % means the amount of extra time per kilometer from 2003 to 2007. Horrifiying to see some kilometers costs over 100% extra time in just 4 years. hno:


----------



## Jeroen669

A 45% *de*crease between Almere and Amsterdam? I suppose that can't be just because of the installed truck prohibition. :?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, I think it's an error. Almere is still growing like hell, and everybody still works in or near Amsterdam.


----------



## H123Laci

Chriszwolle said:


> The % means the amount of extra time per kilometer from 2003 to 2007. Horrifiying to see some kilometers costs over 100% extra time in just 4 years. hno:


The "green fruit" not only has ripened but has rottened too... hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Currently 2.5 hour delay on the Southbound A28 between Assen and Zwolle due to returning traffic from the TT races.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Traffic jam hotspot # 1:


----------



## xlchris

If i'm right that's near my house right? In the region Haarlemmermeer? There's being a new one build right?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, it's the A4 just south of Hoofddorp.


----------



## Timon91

Is that Zoeterwoude-Rijndijk? The spot you hear on the radio every morning and afternoon because of the jams?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, Zoeterwoude-Rijndijk is a few kilometers south. This is the Ringvaart Aqueduct. Zoeterwoude-Rijndijk is at the N11 junction.


----------



## Timon91

^^Thanks, I've never driven over there, so I don't know.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Despite skyrocketing gas prices, popularity of the personal vehicle increases*

High fuel prices and everlasting traffic jams do not hold back the favor of Dutchmen for the car. They increasingly favor the car over mass transit and cycling. Two our of three Dutchmen sees the car as the most efficient way of transport. Only 4% favors public transportation.

translated from:
http://www.nu.nl/news/1639001/37/Populariteit_auto_neemt_toe.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Huge traffic jam after a major accident on the eastbound A12 near Arnhem. one dead, multiple injuries. 3 trucks collided. Road is about to be closed for at least the entire evening.


----------



## Timon91

^^Wow, that looks indeed very bad hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

High density has another disadvantage in the Netherlands; we have the highest number of vehicles per square kilometer in the world.There are 266 vehicles per sq. km.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Traffic jams increased 8% in the first half of 2008, compared to last year, which was one of the many record years we have seen.


----------



## Timon91

Hopefully this growth will reduce a bit when the oil prices rise more and more, though the price went down a bit last week.


----------



## Verso

Timon Kruijk said:


> Hopefully this growth will reduce a bit when the oil prices rise more and more


Yeah, very popular way of reducing traffic growth. :lol:


----------



## Timon91

Well, the skyrocketing oil price also has advantages (ok, there are about a thousand disadvantages)


----------



## Verso

Timon Kruijk said:


> Well, the skyrocketing oil price also has advantages


Mother nature agrees with you, hehe.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Timon Kruijk said:


> Well, the skyrocketing oil price also has advantages


Yeah, I really hope they accelerate the research in alternative fuels. The plan the Dutch energy giants showed a few weeks ago looked hopeful. Electric cars that can drive 400km before rechargeing which would take 10 mins at a rechargeing station. You can also recharge at home. The cost of transportation could drop too, since electric power is cheaper than fuel in the end.


----------



## Timon91

The US has really changed since the last time I was there. Three-quarters of the news is about Global Warming, and everybody is recycling like hell, so that's a good thing.


----------



## Qwert

Chriszwolle said:


> Yeah, I really hope they accelerate the research in alternative fuels. The plan the Dutch energy giants showed a few weeks ago looked hopeful. Electric cars that can drive 400km before rechargeing which would take 10 mins at a rechargeing station. You can also recharge at home. The cost of transportation could drop too, since electric power is cheaper than fuel in the end.


But, the electricity must be also somehow produced.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Qwert said:


> But, the electricity must be also somehow produced.


Yes, but IF you use a polluting source, you can control that pollution much better from a dozen power plants than millions of cars. And electricity can be produced from renewable energy sources. That's why, for instance, the Swiss railway network is nearly CO2 free.


----------



## X236K

Chriszwolle said:


> Yes, but IF you use a polluting source, you can control that pollution much better from a dozen power plants than millions of cars. And electricity can be produced from renewable energy sources. That's why, for instance, the Swiss railway network is nearly CO2 free.


Sorry to say that... there's no way how to produce energy from renewable resource with high EROEI... to ensure being CO2 free is not the main difficulty. The real problems are:

1) where to get the energy efficiently (EROEI>10)
2) how to store it

and then:

3) pollution issues

There are only few countries in the whole world that could really be dependent on renewable energy sources only, e.g. Switzerland, Norway. I just wonder why G8 (and most of developed countries) emphasise pollution problems while the most critical problem we are facing is the lack of energy.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Pollution is a diminishing problem in modern European countries (and others). The amounts of CO2 and PM10 polluted decreased since the 1980's, while traffic and population grows. 

PM10 in the Netherlands dropped from 116 kilotons in 1980 to 47 kiloton in 2002.


----------



## Qwert

Chriszwolle said:


> Yes, but IF you use a polluting source, you can control that pollution much better from a dozen power plants than millions of cars. And electricity can be produced from renewable energy sources. That's why, for instance, the Swiss railway network is nearly CO2 free.


You can control it, but it will be big anyway. The only way how to produce enough energy for cars while not polluting environment is in the most of the countries nuclear energy. But, even the resources of uranium are limited so we must invent something better...


----------



## X236K

Qwert said:


> You can control it, but it will be big anyway. The only way how to produce enough energy for cars while not polluting environment is in the most of the countries nuclear energy. But, even the resources of uranium are limited so we must invent something better...


There are technologies available that are pushing the uranium reserve problems to the far future.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A truck with jammed brakes at IC Kethelplein near Rotterdam caused 86km of traffic jams on 5 freeways around the city of Rotterdam. The longest traffic jam was 23km.


----------



## Qwert

X236K said:


> There are technologies available that are pushing the uranium reserve problems to the far future.


That's great, although I don't know details. I hope that until the resources of uranium will be over we will invent controlled thermonuclear fusion what would definitely solve our problems.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Already 3 heavy accidents since this morning.

On the A1 near Bussum (just east of Amsterdam), a truck caught fire at the offramp. On the A12 near Arnhem, there was a lane closure due to a truck accident. On the A16 near Dordrecht, multiple trucks collided at the Drechttunnel. No details yet.


----------



## H123Laci

Chriszwolle said:


> A truck with jammed brakes at IC Kethelplein near Rotterdam caused 86km of traffic jams on 5 freeways around the city of Rotterdam. The longest traffic jam was 23km.


what a fucking lot of jam...:nuts:

we have a stupid joke about jam:

The officer stops a trucker and asks about the lading.
Trucker says he transports "dzsem"*.
The officer checks the bill of delivery and the lading.

he hno: his head and says: 

- you are in big trouble: 
you said you transported "dzsem"*, there is "JAM" in your bill of delivery, but you are transporting "lekvár"**


a little explanation:
* we use the word JAM, but we write it as we pronounce it: "dzsem"
** but we have our own word for jam: it is "lekvár" in hungarian...


----------



## Rebasepoiss

^^ It remembers me a story about a case at the Polish-Lithuanian border where a truck driver had big problems, because the bill of delivery said "big yellow lemons", while actually they were small and green.


----------



## Timon91

You've got to be very percise about what you have in you truck, or you might get into some serious trouble hno:


----------



## Verso

H123Laci said:


> what a fucking lot of jam...:nuts:
> 
> we have a stupid joke about jam:
> 
> The officer stops a trucker and asks about the lading.
> Trucker says he transports "dzsem"*.
> The officer checks the bill of delivery and the lading.
> 
> he hno: his head and says:
> 
> - you are in big trouble:
> you said you transported "dzsem"*, there is "JAM" in your bill of delivery, but you are transporting "lekvár"**
> 
> 
> a little explanation:
> * we use the word JAM, but we write it as we pronunciate: "dzsem"
> ** but we have our own word for jam: it is "lekvár" in hungarian...


You can be angry and hungry in Hungary.


----------



## Jeroen669

Timon Kruijk said:


> You've got to be very percise about what you have in you truck, or you might get into some serious trouble hno:


Yes, especially France is an awful country in this case. There are currently already 35 innocent dutch truck drivers in jail being accused for drug transportation and stuff like that. Check this out. The worst story is the one of Klaas-Jan Bolt.


----------



## Verso

Chriszwolle said:


> A truck with jammed brakes at IC Kethelplein near Rotterdam caused 86km of traffic jams on 5 freeways around the city of Rotterdam. The longest traffic jam was 23km.


Why do you guys even drive around by cars, if this happens almost on a daily basis? How many hours does it take you to get out of an 86-km-long jam? I wouldn't put up with it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Because you can easily calculate 30 mins of delay and you're still faster than public transportation. I once made such a list of commuter towns around Zwolle, I should update it.


----------



## Timon91

The dutch "Big Dig" on the A73 will close down for two weeks in the end of August hno:


----------



## bashuple

Looks like you have the best highways in Europe!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Yeah maintenance is pretty adequate in the Netherlands. Well, they have to spend the budget on maintenance since it's virtually impossible to improve a motorway otherwise here.


----------



## bashuple

What a breathtaking view! Picture perfect motorway,hope we south africans learn from you guys.


----------



## Timon91

^^Yeah, first we learned the world how to build proper dikes, now we'll learn them how to build motorways


----------



## H123Laci

^^ you mean "teach"...


----------



## WalkTheWorld

Chriszwolle said:


> I made 2 video's of nice scenery here in the region.
> 
> Zalkerdijk: A dike of the river IJssel. The dike has a road on top, it's windy, it's curvy and it has bad pavement. Check it out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zwartendijk: A highly debated area for new housing. Let me show you this video why they should construct those houses elsewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> N764/N331: The secondary (but shortest) road between Kampen and Zwolle. I drove faster than the speed limit here  Speed limit was 80km/h.


:nuts: looks like...home.


----------



## GENIUS LOCI

Chriszwolle said:


> Another one:


I see they designed the highway forecasting a possible future widening


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, it was a standard during the 60's and 70's to build a motorway with reserved space for a widening to 6 lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

At the Dutch wegenforum, we try to collect all city limit signs from all places in the Netherlands. (there are about 4.000 of them). I did a little journey in my region:

1. Boerhaar (translated: farmer hair)









2. Boskamp (translated: woodcamp)









3. Den Nul (translated: the zero/nothing/zilch)









4. Elshof









5. Frankhuis (fake sign, this is within the Zwolle city limits)









6. Haerst, more an area than really some kind of village









7. Herxen (unusual Dutch name)









8. Laag Zuthem (Low Zuthem)









9. Langenholte (loosely translated: Long hollow)









10. In the *Middel* of nowhere.









11. Wijhe:









12. Windesheim (not in Germany though  )


----------



## Timon91

Only 3988 more to go :cheers:


----------



## ABRob

Chriszwolle said:


> At the Dutch wegenforum, we try to collect all city limit signs from all places in the Netherlands.


You've got crazy ideas! 
And/Or too much time..


----------



## Timon91

^^You should try the same in Germany, that'd take some time :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Round two today, the weather was somewhat better, but still not optimal.

1. Broekhuizen (loosely translated: pants homes)









2. Dalfsen, a touristic town just east of Zwolle.









3. Dalmsholte (Dalmshollow)









4. De Schiphorst (The Shiphorst)









5. De Wijk (The Neighborhood)









6. Emmen (not to confuse with the larger Emmen in Drenthe Prov.)









7. Halfweg (Halfway)









8. Hoonhorst (translated as "ironyhorst", though not very accurate translation, Defamationironyhorst might be better). 









9. IJhorst









10. Kolderveen, a funny placename in Dutch, it means something like crazy moor









11. Meppel (ugly placename imo)









12. Nieuwleusen: Newleusen









13. Nijeveen (Frisian, though it's not in Friesland, translated as Newmoor)









14. Near Newleusen is also Oldleusen









15. Punthorst (Pointhorst)









16. Legal city limits of Punthorst (the other being an outlying rural area)









17. Rogat. Very unkown in the Zwolle region, it's a village









18. Rouveen: Roumoor in English. 









19. Staphorst, Stephorst in English. I have to tell a little more about this small city, it is a very strict religious city in the Netherlands, if not the most religious. In the 70's when the A28 motorway was being build, they throwed stones on cars passing by on sundays. I was there today on a sunday, and no rocks where throwed at me  however, it was completely deserted, nobody on the streets, however, the parking place around the church was overcrowded. 









20. Try to pronounce this name: (it's always done wrong by people from the area too). We in Zwolle say Wiet-um, however it's Wijthmen, but most people say it in dialect, while there is no dialect in Zwolle.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Heh funny story:

The Dutch government promotes the "new driving style", that means driving economically in the highest gear possible. So what do those holiday-goers in Switzerland, try to drive a mountain pass with caravan in 5th gear :crazy: Many came into problems because of this :lol:


----------



## Qaabus

Translating town names makes no sense whatsoever. 
Newcastle and Neufchatel would both be Nieuwkasteel.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ No, but it's funny


----------



## Verso

Guys, what a crazy task with the city limit signs! :crazy:



Chriszwolle said:


> Heh funny story:
> 
> The Dutch government promotes the "new driving style", that means driving economically in the highest gear possible. So what do those holiday-goers in Switzerland, try to drive a mountain pass with caravan in 5th gear :crazy: Many came into problems because of this :lol:


Tipically economically Dutch. 



Chriszwolle said:


> Zalkerdijk: A dike of the river IJssel. The dike has a road on top, it's windy, it's curvy and it has bad pavement. Check it out.


What a reckless driving.  And what a quiet road. Is it just me, or there are really some kind of lines or "dots" in the middle of the road, as they normally are, just that this road is too narrow for that IMO? I only see them when you get really close, not from afar.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ They removed the center lines, and replaced them with the correct 60 km/h broken side markings. I guess this road used to have an 80 km/h limit (I drove 95 in some sections).


----------



## Verso

Chriszwolle said:


> ^^ They *removed* the center lines, and *replaced* them with the correct 60 km/h broken side markings. I guess this road *used to have* an 80 km/h limit (I drove 95 in some sections).


I guess that's why I still see some remnants of it?


----------



## H123Laci

Chriszwolle said:


> Freakin steep aqueduct


Oh, I see what you mean on "aqueduct"...

it's a underpass under the canal/river...

what was the problem with a new bridge? was the old bridge a "draw bridge" (which would be a bottleneck on a motorway) or what?

a canal/river underpass compared to a normal bridge is extremely expensive...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They have a lot of aqueducts in Friesland province, because of the extensive leisure shipping. (sail yachts, motor boats etc). Even single lane provincial roads can feature aqueducts. During the summer season, when there is also a lot of recreational road traffic, normal roads can become congested.


----------



## xlchris

Yesterday eve I drove back (my dad) from Drenthe to Amsterdam. We drove on a piece of highway, and on the other side of the road there was a weird sound barrier. I found them quite nice. I can't explain it to good in English so;

Het had zo'n grote betonnen overkapping. Schuin omhoog. Het ging ook de bocht om, zeer mooi om te zien. Weet jij misschien waar dit is Chriszwolle?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's the half covered soundbarrier of Zeist. It roughly covers over one direction (eastbound). But why did you drove from Drenthe to Hoofddorp via Utrecht? I would take the A1 towards Amsterdam and then the A9.


----------



## xlchris

^Don't know. My dad drove. I remember going on the A9 for a long time though. 

He drives a lot so he knows almost the whole NL. Mostly the bussy parts. But he followed the tomtom and when we arrived in Utrecht he drove on his own.

We also went through Zwolle. It looks impressive if you drive on that highway with all the sound barriers and then the tall building plopping up!


----------



## xlchris

This is another one (found on Google)

A13;









I think we took the A37, then the A28, then A2 and then A9 :S:S:S:S


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That pic is the A16 near Dordrecht.


----------



## xlchris

^Weird, google said A13 :S


----------



## Palance

xlchrisij said:


> This is another one (found on Google)
> 
> A13;


It's near Dordrecht on the A16, as you can see on the signs


----------



## xlchris

^I love such sound walls. Google should get better information


----------



## Timon91

Something very positive again about my hometown hno:


----------



## CborG

Some new aerials, the junctions are located mostly around Amsterdam & haarlem:

Zaandam, A7xA8









Watergraafsmeer, A1xA10









This one is rather odd, these three separate junctions are very close together and are considered to be one big junction:

Rottepolderplein, A9xA205 (south-eastern part)









Rottepolderplein A205xN205 (south-western part) 









Rottepolderplein, A9xA200 (northern part)









Raasdorp, A5xA9, the A5 coming from the south (north in this picture) will be extended towards Amsterdam within a few years.









De Nieuwe Meer, A4xA10









IJmuiden, A22xA208









Beverwijk, A9xA22









Princeville, A16xA58. located near Breda:

















Eastern part of Lunetten near Utrecht, A12xA27









Exit Schiphol Airport on the A4:


----------



## Timon91

^^That Schiphol picture has been posted before here. That curve is really way too sharp.


----------



## Moby92

ChrisZwolle said:


>


Haha funny my grandma in America once mentioned it. They don't pronounce the word Zwolle as we do, they say Zúwolla... bit Africanic (is that a word?:nuts. It appears to be a very nice town.


----------



## Timon91

About 1½ month ago I heard that some hurricane (forgot it's name) had caused lots of flooding in Harlingen, Texas


----------



## Verso

Moby92 said:


> Haha funny my grandma in America once mentioned it. They don't pronounce the word Zwolle as we do, they say Zúwolla... bit Africanic (is that a word?:nuts. It appears to be a very nice town.


I used to pronounce it the German way - Tswolle.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Business as usual again:


----------



## RipleyLV

Ho hou, seems that Zwolle has a bit of traffic problems at the moment!  Where do you dig up these maps Chris?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

http://www.traphic.nl/

Traffic jam resources are much more up-to-date and accurate than in other countries. This is all real time from sensors in the pavement. Yellow lines represent slow traffic (below 50km/h or 30 mph) and red lines represent jammed traffic (stopped or nearly stopped in general). 

By the way, earlier this afternoon, there was a 130 minute delay on the A32-A28 towards Zwolle, an accident closed down all southbound lanes.


----------



## RipleyLV

ChrisZwolle said:


> By the way, earlier this afternoon, there was a 130 minute delay on the A32-A28 towards Zwolle, an accident closed down all southbound lanes.


That's bad. hno: Someone got hurt?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This bridge is the busiest road in the Netherlands. It carries the A16 motorway in Rotterdam. AADT: 230.000









A20 motorway, busiest 2x3 motorway (AADT:180.000)


----------



## Timon91

That bridge is the van Brienenoordbrug, right?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Yeah.

Weird speed limit in Rotterdam:


----------



## Timon91

Today it's very nice weather to take some pics, so I took a bike ride to photograph some of the construction works on the A2 near Abcoude. Here they are:

Looking southwards. Pic is taken in province of North Holland, the sign is in Utrecht. The river (Holendrecht river) is the border.









Sand dunes on the other side of the Holendrecht river, on the west side of the A2.









Looking back at the viaduct underneath the A2:









Looking north at the sand dunes:









Road going parallel with the A2, northwards. The highway going west is the A9.









A9 again at the horizon.









Still looking north, at the southern part of the Holendrecht junction.









Now I'm heading south, and riding next to the on-ramp of the A9 entering the A2.









Looking back.









Heading south between the current and the future side.









Entering municipality ("gemeente") Abcoude.









And thus entering the Utrecht province.









Sign for exit Abcoude and the recreational area the Vinkeveense plassen









Looking south.









And north.









Maastricht 200 kms.









The famous Luxembourg 371 km sign.









Approaching exit Abcoude.









Exit Abcoude.









Trees next to the A2 at exit Abcoude.









Sign buried in the sand dunes.









Looking south from the exit Abcoude viaduct. The pipe carries sand from the Amsterdam-Rhine channel to the A2 construction site.









Looking north.









Sign when entering the on-ramp for the A2 heading north.









Looking south at the sand dunes.









WW2 concrete road (the "Burgermeester des Tombeweg") when entering Abcoude.









Again the concrete road, but due to shades the slabs aren't visible very well.









That's it, I hope you liked it :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice Timon! Those concrete roads are remarkable, and getting rare.


----------



## Timon91

^^Yeah, I think it really belongs to Abcoude, it is nostalgious  When returning from holiday you always feel the bumps and then you know "I'm home again". Unfortunately it is getting new asphalt pavement currently. All bad roads in town are getting repaved. The concrete section is plm. 100m long, it used to be about 300m. It is the only WW2 road that doesn't need new pavement IMO.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yesterday was pretty bad with traffic jams. I had to do a survey in Wijchen, near Nijmegen and it took me over 2,5 hours to cover 100 kilometers on the A50 motorway. My boss had even more delay, it took him 2 hours to cover only 50 kilometers on the same motorway. Everything is jammed, it's so bad. hno:


----------



## serdar samanlı1

When the first motorway in the Netherlands opened?


----------



## Qwert

Timon91 said:


> Today it's very nice weather to take some pics, so I took a bike ride to photograph some of the construction works on the A2 near Abcoude.


Looking at those pictures it definitely wasn't nice weather to take photos. Too much sun. But, despite this fact those photos are quite nice.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

serdar samanlı;25832422 said:


> When the first motorway in the Netherlands opened?


April 15th 1937, the A12 Voorburg - Zoetermeer was opened with 2x2 lanes including emergency lanes, grade separated intersections and all modern freeway standards :cheers:


----------



## Timon91

@Qwert: I did have lots of contralight (is that an English word?), but the pics that are taken with the sun in my back are nice indeed  I wasn't disappointed about it.


----------



## Palance

Yesterday, I have made some pictures of the always-very-busy A13 between Delft and Rotterdam. It took me about 25 minutes for 10 km (7 miles).

Album of the A13 until the first traffic lights in Rotterdam . Also note the weird speed-sign (45 km/h) which Chris already noticed.


----------



## Timon91

Also 90 as a speed limit is weird, I've never seen that.


----------



## ABRob

Timon91 said:


> WW2 concrete road (the "Burgermeester des Tombeweg") when entering Abcoude.


So was it build under German occupation?


----------



## Timon91

Yes, I think so, maybe even earlier. After the war there was no need to repave it, but now there is. I just call it the WW2 road, since it is at least that old.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interesting movable barrier system on the A29 motorway south of Rotterdam.


----------



## Timon91

^^Interesting, hadn't they tested sth. like that on the Afsluitdijk, A7?
btw, another section of new A2 has been taken into use, between Vinkeveen and Breukelen (no 2×5 yet, only 2×3, but on new asphalt. Now they are going to repave the older section)


----------



## mgk920

^^
That's called a 'Zipper barrier' and is in use in several locations here in the USA (ie, I-H1 in Honolulu, the Tappan Zee Bridge and others).

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They tried to organize a "traffic jam-free" day. Kinda didn't work at all... 260km of traffic jam, even a bit more busy than a regular rushhour.


----------



## Timon91

Another proof that we still rely too much on our cars. People are afraid of taking the public transport, because it takes much longer than with the car.


----------



## Mateusz

I prefer public transport  It's easy and convinient. Just take a sit and ride


----------



## pimvdh

ChrisZwolle said:


> They tried to organize a "traffic jam-free" day. Kinda didn't work at all... 260km of traffic jam, even a bit more busy than a regular rushhour.


I think they can better organize a "traffic jam" day. Then people think it's buzy on the road while it's not. (the opposit )


----------



## convalescence

I longer haven't seen new pics of the works at the A2 Utrecht... are there any interesting new ones?


----------



## Wuppeltje

ChrisZwolle said:


> They tried to organize a "traffic jam-free" day. Kinda didn't work at all... 260km of traffic jam, even a bit more busy than a regular rushhour.


Although the number of traffic jams are the same, the average traffic jam is shorter. Dutch media, ANWB, Rijkswaterstaat and TNO are reporting that there were shorter traffic jams. So I find your statement pretty strange. 

Length in km (blue normal, orange: traffic jam-free" day): 









Speed increase on this day in the regions: Amsterdam, Rotterdam/Den Haag, Utrecht, Eindhoven.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

pimvdh said:


> I think they can better organize a "traffic jam" day. Then people think it's buzy on the road while it's not. (the opposit )


It happened last year, they warned about snow, and everybody left early, so a lot of traffic jams during the morning and noon, but none in the afternoon rushhour. Pretty strange situation.

@ wuppeltje: check here (in Dutch).

Those graphs are nothing more than forecasts, since TNO already reported it was less busy while the rushhour didn't had it's peak yet. The rushhour this morning peaked at 268 kilometers of traffic jams, qualifying as a "heavy rushhour", well above "regular rushhour".


----------



## Timon91

^^Yeah, on some radio station (slam FM) you could win a helicopter ride to your work and watch everyone in the traffic jam, and then it turns out that driving would have been easier :lol:
Of course a free helicopter ride is fun of course.


----------



## Wuppeltje

ChrisZwolle said:


> It happened last year, they warned about snow, and everybody left early, so a lot of traffic jams during the morning and noon, but none in the afternoon rushhour. Pretty strange situation.
> 
> @ wuppeltje: check here (in Dutch).
> 
> Those graphs are nothing more than forecasts, since TNO already reported it was less busy while the rushhour didn't had it's peak yet. The rushhour this morning peaked at 268 kilometers of traffic jams, qualifying as a "heavy rushhour", well above "regular rushhour".


The highest peak was at 8:44 and this was indeed 268 km. Which is very normal as can be read on this source: 269 km. But around that peak it seems more spread, which seems to be positive.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The evening rushhour has 307km at the moment.


----------



## Wuppeltje

^^

There is a major accident on one of the highways near Utrecht.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

So? That happens everyday anywhere. 

They were lucky it was a beautiful dry day today. If it rained, there would be even more traffic jam. I can only conclude this traffic jam free day 100% failed. 

Fluctuations are always possible in T-J length. Some dry days have only 150km of traffic jam, some others have 270km like today. If it rains, 350 - 400km is no exception. This traffic-jam-free day didn't have the slightest effect on traffic jams. Maybe volumes were a bit lower in-between but who cares about that? It's about the traffic jam, but I'm sure they find a way to call this a great success. I had significantly more delay than normal this afternoon. I usually am able to drive home in 20 minutes, it took me 30 minutes today...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What I expect of this day.

1) A success: They say "traffic jams are a solvable problem, because people have apparantly an alternative". 

2) A failure: They say "traffic jams are not solvable, because people won't get out of their cars".

Both conclusions will result in not one long-term effect on traffic jams, because these so-called "alternatives" are maybe nice for a day (like get up at 5 am to go to work), but not for the long-term situation. 

Dutch policymakers are extremely good in rambling on about how people should get out of their cars, because that's the "only" solution according to some, which totally ignores the fact our current motorway network (capacity) is suited for a 1970's population, not a current one. In other words, 3,5 million people less and a significantly lower welfare situation.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

About that accident, it's really nasty on the A12 right now. 24 km traffic jam behind the accident because of a road closure, and 31 kilometer of traffic jam in the other direction.


----------



## Des

ChrisZwolle said:


> Both conclusions will result in not one long-term effect on traffic jams, because these so-called "alternatives" are maybe nice for a day (like get up at 5 am to go to work), but not for the long-term situation.
> 
> Dutch policymakers are extremely good in rambling on about how people should get out of their cars, because that's the "only" solution according to some, which totally ignores the fact our current motorway network (capacity) is suited for a 1970's population, not a current one. In other words, 3,5 million people less and a significantly lower welfare situation.


You hit the nail on the head. How can people expect there to be no traffic jams when the development of infrastructure has been behind on growth of population and car ownership / mobility for three decades. 

After the major infrastructure planning of the 60's not much has been done to keep this country moving. Some highways got additional lanes but nearly no significant new highways or national roads were constructed. 

People saying we should look for alternatives are ignorant. Half the country spends at least once a week in a traffic jam. Not only on working days but also in the weekends, another example that it's the lack of infrastructure causing the delays instead of simply saying people live to far from their work or should use public transport more. 

Hopefully a lot of the plans made by current transport minister camiel eurlings will be constructed with higher priority to make up for the lost time and delay in infrastructure development created the last 30 years.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This is a common sight on the A50 freeway between Zwolle and Apeldoorn due to nearby army depots/bases.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A video of the southbound A50 motorway. It passes by Heerde and Epe, two forest towns. The area around the A50 is heavily forested.






link to higher Quality


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This is my 100th road video! 

*A50/A1 Interchange Beekbergen*

A video of the Beekbergen cloverleaf. This is the larger version of the standard cloverleaf because it has parallel lanes to reduce weaving on the through lanes.




Link to HQ


----------



## Mateusz

ChrisZwolle said:


> This is a common sight on the A50 freeway between Zwolle and Apeldoorn due to nearby army depots/bases.


http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=XnNf89bv0Mc

:lol:


----------



## PLH

^^ One's for sure - the polish way is much faster


----------



## Timon91

During the last few days I've spend some beautiful days on a Dutch island called Terschelling. It's in the north of the country and it is part of the province of Friesland. On my way to the ferry harbour in Harlingen I made a few pics of the A7 and the construction works on the A31. Enjoy :cheers:

Dutch farmland and a Dutch hectometre sign:









Foggy morning on the A7:









Morning sun over the IJsselmeer, when entering the Afsluitdijk:









A7 heading east on the Afsluitdijk seen from the Monument rest area viaduct:









Same location, A7 heading west:









On the road again:









Exit Zurich: beginning of the N31/A31:









The N31/A31 is almost finished here, the divided lanes are finished. It seems like it's going to open in not a very long time:









Still some work over here:


















Heading towards Harlingen:









Exit Kimswerd. Since it doesn't really have an exit number I suspect this dual carriage way section will still be numbered N31, instead of A31, also because....









......the bridge over the Van Harinxma canal is still two-laned and is located in an area with some buildings around it. There is also no work going on over there:









That's it for the motorways. 
Bonus: a few pics from the island. 

A normal bike path:









The main road on the island:









A not so normal bike path. After 20 kms of such road your ass feels bad, I can say that . It felt like 60 kms on a normal road. This 'road' leads to the very east end of the island, and it's about 10 kms long.









Enjoy :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A28 Northbound*

11.20 am: traffic jam time at exit Wezep.









11.30 am, completely stopped traffic.









11.35 am: I wish I could drive 50 km/h









11.45 am: Interchange Hattemerbroek, still jammed.









11.50 am: Inching forward.









11.55 am: Toyota Prius:









11.56 am: The opposite of a Prius:









12.05 pm: A50 dumping it's load onto the A28









12.08 pm: Merging chaos









12.15 pm: Through lanes start to run again. I have to use this exit.









12.18 pm: Alternative road is jammed too.









12.30 pm: Traffic jam continues into Zwolle, but I can avoid the last few kilometers. Total time for these 6km: 70 minutes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Quite a difference in TJ-length if we compare the Netherlands to Nordrhein-Westfalen.

NL -> 331km traffic jam, longest: 32 kilometers
NRW -> 131km traffic jam, longest: 6 kilometers


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nearly 400 kilometers of queue:


----------



## Timon91

Well, there is a big mess on the A27 now. 10 kms at an accident, and 31 kms because of cars slowing down to look at the accident hno:


----------



## Des

Yeah it looks like a good time to enjoy the dutch motorways... NOT:


----------



## xlchris

Not realy highways, but important roads in my city Hoofddorp;


----------



## Timon91

On the A2 between Vinkeveen and Breukelen a new section has been opened a few weeks ago. The southbound lane is going over the new stretch, the northbound lane still on the old stretch. I hope to make some pics tomorrow. This is what is looked like a few months ago:




























(second pic is crap since I took it over my shoulder; I was late for school and had no time to stop )


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I drove there yesterday


----------



## Timon91

^^Did you make pics? 
btw, next time just jump by for a cup of tea


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, I didn't made pictures, it was around 15.30 but it was so cloudy that it looked like dusk.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15 Nijmegen - Rotterdam*

A 111 picture journey across on of the most important east-west axis in central Netherlands. It runs westbound from interchange Ressen to interchange Ridderkerk over 90 kilometers. 

map:









*link to the pictures in an easy-browsing Picasa webalbum*


----------



## Timon91

ChrisZwolle said:


> No, I didn't made pictures, it was around 15.30 but it was so cloudy that it looked like dusk.


Unfortunately I didn't take pics too hno: The sun was shining straight in my face and I tried to make some but you just couldn't see anything. I made about 12 pics of my small trip (Abcoude-Oosterhout, A2/A27), I'll post later


----------



## Timon91

btw, the Oosterhout I visited is another one than the Oosterhout in Chris' pictures. It's nice to see the new signage appearing on the A15


----------



## Moby92

Yes it is. It's more Germanish. 

Oosterhout... next to the A27. Always very crowded on the A27 there.


----------



## Timon91

Today it was ok, but it's sunday of course. The amount and length of traffic jams near Lexmond, a bit further north on the A27, has also grown terribly. It's time for some 2×3 (maybe even 4) over there...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ChrisZwolle said:


> *A15 Nijmegen - Rotterdam*
> 
> A 111 picture journey across on of the most important east-west axis in central Netherlands. It runs westbound from interchange Ressen to interchange Ridderkerk over 90 kilometers.
> 
> map:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *link to the pictures in an easy-browsing Picasa webalbum*


Some things I noted:

This used to be the A325 to Nijmegen. They raped the road (Dutch expression  )
http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris3/A15NijmegenRotterdam#5258823004838427122

A15 not going anywhere west soon. Ends in Bemmel. It is planned to be extended towards the A12.
http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris3/A15NijmegenRotterdam#5258823009712058402

New signage!
http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris3/A15NijmegenRotterdam#5258823020046402898

German huh?!
http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris3/A15NijmegenRotterdam#5258823055392425154

Land between the rivers;
http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris3/A15NijmegenRotterdam#5258823101234772690

Betuweroute freight railroad. Costed 5 bln euro's, haven't seen any train on the entire 100km route along it.
http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris3/A15NijmegenRotterdam#5258823111270313986

Notice that Jeep? Keep it in mind
http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris3/A15NijmegenRotterdam#5258823230633331730

Amsterdam-Rhine canal ahead
http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris3/A15NijmegenRotterdam#5258823252242065202

Est is no French wind direction 
http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris3/A15NijmegenRotterdam#5258823348003117730

Nice windmill
http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris3/A15NijmegenRotterdam#5258823430412769442

WTF, no traffic jams? 
http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris3/A15NijmegenRotterdam#5258823472862431842

Still that Jeep huh
http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris3/A15NijmegenRotterdam#5258823523525101474

Green Heart 
http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris3/A15NijmegenRotterdam#5258823533016575666

Hardinxveld-Giessendam, nice city name
http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris3/A15NijmegenRotterdam#5258823584666365090

2x3 at last
http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris3/A15NijmegenRotterdam#5258823661510719810

Kinderdijk, which Japanese hasn't been there?
http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris3/A15NijmegenRotterdam#5258823662719916498

Noordtunnel (North Tunnel) (the river is called Noord)
http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris3/A15NijmegenRotterdam#5258823701190327458

Another nice name; Hendrik-Ido-Ambacht
http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris3/A15NijmegenRotterdam#5258823717937976290

Again no traffic jams? Something must be wrong 
http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris3/A15NijmegenRotterdam#5258823740851647874


----------



## PLH

^^ Error 404 all the way


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Damn picasa that can't even link directly to a picture.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

How about now?


----------



## Verso

Nice trip, Chris.










Magic.


----------



## Timon91

Pics are visible again. Great trip. Betuwelijn is a waste of money. NIMBY's try to block trains by putting rocks on the track. Stupid brainless hippies. 

@Chris: I've tried to learn some Americans how to pronounce "Gasselternijveenschemond" (somewhere in the north of NL), but I didn't succeed. Hopefully they'll do better with Hendrik-Ido-Ambacht. 

By the way, we have some pretty stupid place names. In Limburg, there is a town called "Echt". For the ones who don't speak Dutch: "Echt" means "really". There has been a sign on the A2 saying "Brug Echt dicht", meaning that the bridge in Echt is closed. If you literally translate it, it becomes "Bridge really closed" :lol:


----------



## Timon91

ChrisZwolle said:


> As far as I know they've decided to upgrade the existing motorways. (A1, A9, A10)


Well, I thought that Eurlings recently announced to have another look at the project :dunno:


----------



## Qaabus

They've already started widening some A10 bridges.


----------



## Timon91

A moment ago, I heard on the radio that they don't want a tunnel under the Naardermeer. Eurlings said he wants the existing motorways widened asap. The result of another "investigation", the 7364th or sth hno:


----------



## PLH

^^ Why the A4 is said to be in *this* place? Taking a glimpse at GoogleEarth, there is A13 jest next to it. Why just not widen it? I know it's diffiucult, but for sure less than dealing with this A4


----------



## Timon91

If an accident happens on the A13, what do you want to do? There is no other option. This is the only motorway. Furthermore, the A4 now consists of four different parts (one is called A29), and it would be great to connect them all. It would give motorway connection between Amsterdam and Belgium without having to switch roads.


----------



## PLH

^^ OK, I don't question that, but as even the tunnel is not an option(why??) so it's for 100% sure A4 will be never build where it was supposed to be.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A13 empties on the undercapacity A20 which is hard to widen without excessive costs.


----------



## Timon91

PLH said:


> ^^ OK, I don't question that, but as even the tunnel is not an option(why??) so it's for 100% sure A4 will be never build where it was supposed to be.


The tunnel I mentioned is another project we discussed above: A6/A9. The A4 will probably come in future.


----------



## PLH

^^ Upps, sure, there's no meer over there :nuts: :doh:

But still there have been some huge problems with the A4


----------



## Timon91

^^For the last 50 years.....


----------



## Timon91

I made some pics of the A2 and A27. Only a few of low quality, because the sun was very irritating (even through the clouds), and you know how good my photographic skills are hno:

Starting off with the Jan Blankenbrug (crossing the Lek, end of the Rhine)









Sign on the A2


















A27 heading towards Breda









Merwedebrug, no shoulders, and a very narrow left lane. This is quite a big bottleneck and it causes lots of jams during rush hours.









Again the Merwedebrug. Notice the upside down lamp post on the left









The Keizersveerbrug, crossing the Bergsche Maas. Quite an ugly bridge IMO.


----------



## PLH

Timon91 said:


> Merwedebrug, no shoulders, and a very narrow left lane. This is quite a big bottleneck and it causes lots of jams during rush hours.


What's the speed limit over there?


----------



## Jeroen669

PLH said:


> ^^ Why the A4 is said to be in *this* place? Taking a glimpse at GoogleEarth, there is A13 jest next to it.


At Rotterdam Overschie the motorway is practicly impossible to widen...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another 400 kilometer traffic jam today... hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This morning was especially bad around Amsterdam, the safety traffic lights at the Coentunnel and Zeeburgertunnel in the A10 ringroad malfunctioned, creating gridlock in the entire surround area, including a 25 kilometer traffic jam at the A7/A8 alone. All inbound freeways were jammed, a typical 30km drive took over 2 hours there. 

This afternoon, Rotterdam is gridlocked, because of an accident on the A20 motorway, which caused a 25 kilometer traffic jam behind it, and also blocking other freeways nearby (A16, A13, A12, A4, A15). I myself experienced some delays too in my city.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

1.024 kilometer traffic jam including provincial roads according to TomTom High Definition Traffic :nuts:


----------



## Timon91

PLH said:


> What's the speed limit over there?


120 km/h, but people often slow down, causing jams during the rush hours. Furthermore, this is just after the A15/A27 junction, so there is a lot more traffic entering the highway just before this bridge.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Merwede Bridge is a pain in the ass. Rushhour last very long here, with the first traffic jams popping up around 14.30 pm and the last disappearing often long after 19.00 hrs. Rushhours seems to start earlier every year. Sometimes it's already stopped traffic around 6 am at various places.


----------



## Timon91

The whole A27 between the junction with the A2 and the junction with the A59 has seen an immense increase in traffic jams over the last few years. Especially near Lexmond the road is often congested.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ That's gonna happen on a lot more motorways. The A27 was just an example of a motorway which was very near the maximum capacity. There are plenty more of them. 

Potentials: 

A1 Amersfoort - Hengelo
A2 Eindhoven - Geleen
A7 Zaandam - Hoorn
A12 Utrecht - German border
A15 Rotterdam - Nijmegen
A27 Breda - Gorinchem
A28 Amersfoort - Zwolle
A50 Arnhem - Zwolle
A59 Oss - Den Bosch
A67 Eindhoven - Venlo

The time traffic jams were only limited to urban areas is long gone in the Netherlands. All intercity connections face tremendous congestion.


----------



## Timon91

One bad snow day and we'll break our jam record with ease hno:


----------



## Verso

Interesting pics, Timon! Those lamps and the bridge are entertaining.


----------



## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


> 1.024 kilometer traffic jam including provincial roads according to TomTom High Definition Traffic :nuts:


wow.
are you excersing to wordrecord breaking? :nuts:


----------



## Timon91

^^I think we can seriously break the record for kms of jam per sq. km of land for a normal sized country hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I'm beginning to believe our traffic is even worse than Los Angeles, when counted to population.


----------



## Mateusz

Build extra lanes :nuts: otherwise you will all sink in this dutch traffic jam :nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I made a video of the A1 motorway between Apeldoorn and Hengelo (50km). This is a major truck route, 20 - 25% of the traffic is trucks, which means about 20.000 trucks a day. This video was taken outside rushhour (1.30 pm) but I managed to achieve the maximum speed of 120 km/h only three times for a very short period.

Speeded up 4 times:





high quality link


----------



## RipleyLV

Great video! And the weather is sunny, here in Latvia it's rainig now 3 days in a row.


----------



## Timon91

^^It's quite cold over here right now. This morning my hair was frozen and my jacket also had some ice cristals on it :lol:


----------



## xlchris




----------



## Palance

xlchrisij said:


>


This fly-over does not exist yet, but is planned! (junction A16-N3-N217 near Dordrecht).


----------



## Timon91

The A2 in better times (1995) 










source: Moppentap, a Dutch humour site


----------



## PLH

^^ No traffic jam! Weird...


----------



## Timon91

If everyone starts surfing over there the would be other jams :lol:


----------



## Verso

Timon91 said:


>


Nice scenery.


----------



## Timon91

Yeah, the whole southern half of the country was having difficulties with flooding in 1995. Germany cut off lots of river corners which gave more water than usual. The combination with loads of rain gave this. Lots of dikes had to be enforced to prevent other floods. All traffic had to go through the city centre of Den Bosch, which gave lots of problems.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interestingly, the A2 near Culemborg has an interesting feature called the "diefdijk coupure". It's a dam that can be lowered onto the freeway to prevent further flooding north. As far as I know it hasn't been used yet, and it's the only one we have in the Netherlands. As you might know, we Dutchmen are quite active with flood control. Because everything is flat, 1 meter of water can submerge half the country.


----------



## Timon91

^^There are some railways that also have that. The railway track near Harlingen for instance. Also the Vlissingen-Roosendaal line has it somewhere AFAIK.


----------



## Timon91

This is what it looks now, btw. You can see they added dikes, so hopefully it won't happen again.










Pic taken from Autosnelwegen.net


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think those are sound barriers.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ABRob said:


> But I think there should be an other objective before: Having all motorways in the Netherlands photographed - in both directions.
> And holding this collection up to date.
> 
> And I'm only taking videos of roads, which I've got already on photos.


There's already an initiative from the Dutch wegenforum, which is called www.roadpics.net to cover all motorways in the Netherlands in pictures. I think we already achieved that goal, and Belgium and Luxemburg isn't far away too, as well as Nordrhein-Westfalen. 

So, given the fact every motorway has been pictured by Frits and others, I record videos of the motorways


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Mateusz said:


> What's the widest autosnelweg in Netherlands ? Self one or ever with lanes from junction to junction


I'm not sure what you meant with that last sentence, but the widest motorway is as follows:

1) total amount of lanes: A16 Ridderkerk-Noord - Ridderkerk-Zuid 16 lanes
2) total amount of through lanes: A12 De Meern - Oudenrijn 5+6 lanes (very short)
3) total amount of through lanes longer distance: A4 IC Burgerveen - Schiphol 2x5 lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A50 motorway Apeldoorn - Zwolle*

A drive on the northbound A50 motorway from interchange Beekbergen to interchange Hattemerbroek, a distance of 35 kilometers. This road connects the two larger cities of Apeldoorn and Zwolle and passes through the Veluwe natural region.





*link to High Quality*


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I remembered this:










They expected massive traffic jams because of snowfall, and they had issued a traffic warning. Result: everybody left early or stayed at home. The expected 500 kilometer traffic jam was only 13 kilometers long 

Sometimes it's the other way around 7/5/07


----------



## Verso

Eww, Pet Shop Boys.  Nice video, truck overtaking again. hno:


----------



## Timon91

A Dutch radio station held a contest and the winner would win a helicopter ride to his work and back home. It would be fun for the winner to see all other people in the jams, but there was only 13 km :lol:


----------



## ABRob

ChrisZwolle said:


> There's already an initiative from the Dutch wegenforum, which is called www.roadpics.net to cover all motorways in the Netherlands in pictures. I think we already achieved that goal, and Belgium and Luxemburg isn't far away too, as well as Nordrhein-Westfalen.


I know this site. 

But only one 1 pic for each exit - that's too little for me, I would prefer to have at least a pic of every sign, like on http://rippachtal.de :tongue3:



ChrisZwolle said:


> So, given the fact every motorway has been pictured by Frits and others, I record videos of the motorways


Haven't you got the goal to have pics of all motorways in your country - made by yourself?
I have - but I give me some dacades time for that.


----------



## Timon91

^^To cover Germany is probably a little more work than to cover the Netherlands :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A37 Hoogeveen - Meppen*

A drive on the eastbound A37 motorway, a newer and very quiet motorway in northeastern Netherlands. It runs from interchange Hoogeveen to the interchange with the German A31 near Meppen, 50 kilometers are in between. You can see that in 6 minutes.






*link to High Quality*


----------



## Verso

^^ It's that new motorway, right? Very quiet indeed, even for our standards. The border crossing reminds me very much of you-know-which-one.


----------



## Chris_533976

What camera and setup are you using for these vids? Always wanted to make something like that myself.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I'm using a simple digital compact camera: Canon Powershot A530. I have attached it with velcro on my dashboard and tape the road for long distances and then edit it 4 times fastforward.


----------



## enschede-er

how many km/hour did you ride


----------



## Timon91

^^50 kms in 6 minutes is 500 km/h, and speeded with a factor 4 makes 125 km/h. So Chris was speeding 



Verso said:


> ^^ It's that new motorway, right? Very quiet indeed, even for our standards. The border crossing reminds me very much of you-know-which-one.


Let me guess..... Would it probably the one that just opened between Slovenia and Hungary?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A7 Leer - Groningen*

A drive in the extreme Northeastern Netherlands, from Dreieck Bunde in Germany onto the A280 which continues as A7 in the Netherlands to the city of Groningen, a distance of 55 kilometers.





*Link to High Quality*


----------



## Verso

Timon91 said:


> Let me guess..... Would it probably the one that just opened between Slovenia and Hungary?


Bingo.  There are also motorway on one side and expressway on the other in both cases, just a little better. 

Nice video again; the car in the 19th second overtakes you amazingly fast.


----------



## Timon91

^^That was still in Germany :lol:
Nice video Chris. It's funny to see that the border station is still there.


----------



## Verso

^ Where do you see a border station? I hardly even noticed the sign for the Netherlands.


----------



## Timon91

^^0:31


----------



## enschede-er

Timon91 said:


> ^^50 kms in 6 minutes is 500 km/h, and speeded with a factor 4 makes 125 km/h. So Chris was speeding
> 
> 
> 
> Let me guess..... Would it probably the one that just opened between Slovenia and Hungary?


that's not a much km/h i see there are not alot cars you can drive easy 150/160


----------



## Timon91

Well, Chris is probably a driver who sticks to the rules (they are rare, but there are some of them)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

enschede-er said:


> that's not a much km/h i see there are not alot cars you can drive easy 150/160


Please write me a check for € 20,- at account number 007007007 for the added expenses in fuel usage.


----------



## enschede-er

hahahah , this is for me dum, if uyou see in germany they have no speed limits and you can drive how many you want you see here in the Netherlands 120 max and theres nowhone on the way for me thats dum and a car is maked to ride 160 170 180 , i have seen many peopele they ride so and there is not happening and even pople that ride 120 they make mistakes


----------



## Timon91

You know how much more your car consumes when you drive 180???? It's a very big difference.


----------



## enschede-er

its very boring if you ride only 120


----------



## Timon91

It is, but how interesting a ride is, is not the only aspect that determines how fast you wanna drive...


----------



## Majestic

enschede-er said:


> its very boring if you ride only 120


At least you can admire awesome landscapes which is not going to happen when driving 180


----------



## Verso

^ Yeah, when I drive on new Slovenian motorways, I drive just 110 km/h, otherwise it goes by too quickly. 



Timon91 said:


> ^^0:31


Oh, I was wondering what kind of a greenhouse that was.


----------



## Timon91

There is also such a greenhouse on the A1 on the German border :lol:


----------



## PLH

^^ What are they actually kept for?


----------



## Timon91

I have no idea. Too much work to remove :lol:


----------



## enschede-er

yeah but the half of the riders who ride 120km/h theyre afraid to ride more


----------



## Majestic

enschede-er said:


> yeah but the half of the riders who ride 120km/h theyre afraid to ride more


You're implying they are pussies or what?


----------



## enschede-er

no im saying facts


----------



## aswnl

55 km in 6:34, that's 500 km/h...


----------



## PLH

^^ divided by 4 makes 125 km/h


----------



## mgk920

Verso said:


> Eww, Pet Shop Boys.  Nice video, truck overtaking again. hno:


I actually liked them from the 1980s, but I have never heard this particular song. What's its title?

Someday, if you haven't already, you should spend a month or two wandering around in the USA. :yes:

Mike


----------



## mgk920

ChrisZwolle said:


> *A7 Leer - Groningen*
> 
> A drive in the extreme Northeastern Netherlands, from Dreieck Bunde in Germany onto the A280 which continues as A7 in the Netherlands to the city of Groningen, a distance of 55 kilometers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Link to High Quality*


What's under construction at the 6:00 mark?

Also, what's the artist/title on that music, good stuff!

BTW, there is a guy in another forvm ('Freeway Jim') whom has done a bunch of similar video clips taken on freeways mostly in the eastern USA. They are well worth checking out!

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Busy this morning:











> What's under construction at the 6:00 mark?


The A7 is being slightly moved to the east to make it grade-separated.



> Also, what's the artist/title on that music, good stuff!


Toto - After You've gone


----------



## Timon91

They were expecting a lot of jams during rush hour again, due to the hard wind and the rain hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Ring Zwolle*

A drive on the ringroad of Zwolle, a circumferential road of 15 kilometers, but it's not an expressway sadly, but an at grade 2x2 ringroad. Parts of it get pretty jammed during rushhour. But not on this video, since it was shot on a sunday.






*Link to high quality*


----------



## Verso

^^ Ring Zwolle almost exactly 1.5 years later.  I think it's quite fine as it is. I think it's highly unlikely it will ever become an expressway, what do you think?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think some intersections might be grade-separated in the future, however, there aren't any current plans for it.


----------



## Timon91

Making it completely grade-separated would be quite some work :lol:

I wonder why Abcoude doesn't have a ringroad


----------



## Verso

Timon91 said:


> I wonder why Abcoude doesn't have a ringroad


I'm sure even Abcoude has a roundabout.


----------



## Timon91

Oh yeah 

-edit- A quick look at GE tells me there are even two roundabouts in Abcoude - 200m apart.


----------



## PLH

What's the speed limit?


----------



## Majestic

ChrisZwolle said:


> *Ring Zwolle*
> 
> A drive on the ringroad of Zwolle, a circumferential road of 15 kilometers, but it's not an expressway sadly, but an at grade 2x2 ringroad. Parts of it get pretty jammed during rushhour. But not on this video, since it was shot on a sunday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Link to high quality*


Chris, aren't you pissed-off by the traffic priority on the ringroad? First few intersections it was green all the way, but then seemed like you stopped at red most of the time hno:
Isn't that supposed to be the city's main thoroughfare?


Besides, nice skyscraper you have there in "downtown" Zwolle :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I was lucky that the first few traffic lights were green. You usually have to stop at nearly all of them. It took me about 20 minutes to complete the 15 kilometers now, but during rushhour, it could be 45 - 50 minutes, if not more. 

If you looked well at the end, there were a few traffic lights where I had to stop and got green light. They should've given the green light sooner so that traffic doesn't have to stop all the time for nothing.


----------



## Timon91

An intensive case study can solve lots of problems. I remember seeing sth on tv about a very busy traffic lights, which gave lots of jams during rush hour. Some people did a case study, came to a conclusion, reprogrammed the traffic lights, and the problem was almost completely gone. Did they never think of that in Zwolle? Or is there just no money to do it?


----------



## Verso

We only have one green-wave road in Ljubljana. hno:


----------



## CborG

Impression of the widened A2 near Vinkeveen:


----------



## Des

Thanks for the pic CborG, can't wait till it's finished. Just hope they don't put the average speed camera's up immediately after the road is finished


----------



## kosimodo

It must be very difficult to drive 100km/h on that peace of motorway!!


----------



## Timon91

Nice pic CborG. It's looking south by the way. It will be very difficult to limit yourself to 100 km/h indeed. It might be better to keep it 120, except for rush hours when it should be 100 (most likely: 20, with jams ), with the electronic signs over the motorway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A very innovative project is the tunnelizing of the N2 in Maastricht.

It is said to become the first double decked tunnel in the world.


----------



## PLH

^^ Great, but how realistic?


----------



## ABRob

ChrisZwolle said:


> A very innovative project is the tunnelizing of the N2 in Maastricht.
> 
> It is said to become the first double decked tunnel in the world.


Maybe the first double double decked tunnel (2x2 over 2x2) in the world.
Look at this (1 (lane) over 1):
http://www.wabweb.net/verkehr/bilder/kurioses/stocktunnel.html

In Wuppertal exist also a double decked tunnel (2 (lanes) over 2).
And for the extension of the A100 in Berlin is also a double decked tunnel (3 over 3) planned - also in Prague.


----------



## Timon91

They decided that there is going to come a tunnel, this is just a proposal. I don't think it's very realistic, I heard more of this kind of talk. A tunnel, if 2×2, is good enough IMO.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Very. The project is still in the bidding stage, but three consortiums have secretly worked 1,5 years on this project to calculate the costs. A tunnel with 8 lanes is required to join the bidding. The project shown above is the "Avenue2" project which is already seen as the most probably solution. The project should be completed in 2015. 

Two consortiums have presented plans with a double-decked tunnel, the third one a 2x3 tunnel. The budget is 630 million euros and works should commence in 2011. 

The double-decked tunnels have an upper level for local traffic and a lower level for through traffic on the A2 motorway.


----------



## Timon91

First see, then I'll really believe that it's going to be there. It would be great if such a tunnel would come though. The situation as it is now is just horrible hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah traffic is quite bad in Maastricht. I've met the Maastricht traffic extensively in June 2007 when I was on holiday there for two weeks. I think it has more congestion than the 6 times larger nearby Liège.


----------



## pmaciej7

Also Koln and Basel have double-decked tunnels, but none of them 2x2x2. 

Btw: Is A73 Venlo-Echt finished?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

pmaciej7 said:


> Btw: Is A73 Venlo-Echt finished?


Yes, but there are many problems with the tunnels. Tunnels are only available with one lane per direction from monday to friday. Tunnels are closed in the weekends until further notice.


----------



## ABRob

ChrisZwolle said:


> Tunnels are only available with one lane per direction from monday to friday. Tunnels are closed in the weekends until further notice.


WTF... :bash:
Why?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Because of testing and other stuff they have to do on the tunnel safety systems.

These tunnels are supposed to be the safest in Europe, but the main problem so far is height; several trucks already hit the roof of the tunnel and the tunnel's safety systems often detect overheight trucks with too much margin so people get stuck behind a closed tunnel all the time for nothing.


----------



## Verso

Interesting proposal! 



pmaciej7 said:


> Also Koln and *Basel* have double-decked tunnels


Where does Basel have it?


----------



## pmaciej7

What a shame with these tunnels hno:

-----------------

*@ Verso:* A2/3 Schweizerhalle gallery between exits 6 and 7. Isn't this double-decked?


----------



## Verso

^^



















I don't see how this is a double-deck tunnel. :dunno:


----------



## Timon91

Maybe it just dives under it? :dunno:


----------



## pmaciej7

Driving there i was under impression that this tunnel is double decked. But i saw these pictures and it transpires that i was totally wrong. 

Ok, back to _autosnelwegen_.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

"Normal" rushhour traffic jams today:

10. A9 tussen knooppunt Holendrecht en knooppunt Velsen: 20 km (18.08 uur)
09. A28 tussen Utrecht en Leusden: 20 km (17.26 uur)
08. A12 tussen De Meern en Maarn: 20 km (17.10 uur)
07. A1 tussen knooppunt Watergraafsmeer en Blaricum: 20 km (15.52 uur)
06. A10 tussen Osdorp en knooppunt Coenplein: 21 km (16.16 uur)
05. A12 tussen Bunnik en Bodegraven: 27 km (17.48 uur)
04. A28 tussen 't Harde en Staphorst: 27 km (16.22 uur)
03. A2 tussen Breukelen en Beesd: 33 km (16.14 uur)
02. A27 tussen Maarssen en Werkendam: 37 km (16.22 uur)
01. A2 tussen Utrecht en knooppunt Empel: 42 km (16.48 uur)


----------



## Timon91

^^Today is an extreme, because the weather is very bad (lots of wind, horizontal snow and rain)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, it wasn't very busy at all.

ANWB expected 350 kilometers of traffic jam, but there was about 220 kilometers.

TomTom calculates more traffic jams, about 600 kilometers including non-motorways and they are usually above 1.000 kilometers of traffic jams on busy days. 

This Friday's evening rushhour lasted quite long (it started before noon) but the peak was not very high.


----------



## Timon91

I see, I never see the TomTom jams, so I thought it was the ANWB information. If it was the ANWB info it would have been quite busy.


----------



## Mateusz

> 15. Abcoude - droga z czerwonej kostki
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 16. Abcoude - albo ładna kostka albo równy asfalt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 17. Abcoude
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 18. Abcoude


Pictures by Kri$

Now we know how your town looks like Timon ^^


----------



## Timon91

It's beautiful, isn't it? 
Until a few months ago, there were actually a few Poles living in my neighbourhood.


----------



## Mateusz

No doubt, we are everywhere now


----------



## Timon91

It could have been Kri$


----------



## Verso

Haha, this rocks; which house is yours, Timon?  Nice town. 

You Poles call cobble stones "kostki"? It sounds similar to our word for bones.  ("kosti", but kids say "kostke", or in dual (two bones) even "kostki" )


----------



## Verso

Nice pics, Timon. :cheers: I like those bike signs, they are all across Switzerland too, here we don't have them. Where did you go from that end of the bike path?

Cool snowy video, Chris. :cheers: There's even a tunnel!  And that overpass at the end is übercool.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A2 Maastricht -> Eindhoven
Between Meerssen and Interchange Leenderheide
62 kilometers slow to stopped traffic

:nuts:


----------



## Timon91

Verso said:


> Nice pics, Timon. :cheers: I like those bike signs, they are all across Switzerland too, here we don't have them. Where did you go from that end of the bike path?


Turn left onto the grass and then make a U-turn onto the viaduct :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A traffic warning has been issued. They expect 500+ kilometers of traffic jam (tomTom: 1000 - 1500 km range probably) tomorrowmorning.


----------



## Mateusz

That's just madness... when these politicans and ecoterrorists will understand that new routes and widenings are needed hno:


----------



## Des

Mateusz said:


> That's just madness... when these politicans and ecoterrorists will understand that new routes and widenings are needed hno:


No, we have to BAN snow! :lol:


----------



## Palance

Verso said:


> Nice pics, Timon. :cheers: I like those bike signs, they are all across Switzerland too, here we don't have them.


Are you sure? 










In the Netherlands we fortunately have a lot of sings for cycling, although some of them contain..well, a lot of information. Fortunately it is easier to stop with a bike for reading on a crossing than with a car 



















As you see, we even have 'roadnumbers' for cyclists. These numbers here are in the Rotterdam area. Route no 10 for example runs from Ridderkerk to Maasvlakte (the Northsea-coast).
In the are there are informational signs with the routes listed on them. Click here for an example (3,2 Mb, 4000x3000). I really like cycling this way in my country. You'll find those signs everywhere in the Netherlands.

The advantage if cycling is that you sometimes can get close to the motorway to make photos like this one I made some months ago at the Heinenoordtunnel (which was closed due to an accident).









Also very well known in the Netherlands are the "paddestoelen"-signs. A "paddestoel" is a mushroom. For example:









As you have seen on the previous picture, some "LF-Routes" exist. Those are cycling routes for long distances. A sign can look like this:









And at last: The interchanges ("knooppunten") for cyclists: You can buy a map where the several interchanges are indicated. You can choose a route and just hop from one interchange to another. Such signs look like this:









So far the lesson "Cycling in the Netherlands for dummies"  More pictures can be found here.


----------



## Timon91

There is a sign of the LF-7 in Abcoude indicating Alkmaar (70 km) and Maastricht (230 km) :cheers:

And on my way to school I follow the LF-7 for a few kms :lol:


----------



## Palance

And now some more motorwaypictures:

The A4 at service-area "Den Ruygen Hoek". (taken from the restaurant aove the motorway into direction Amsterdam, last Friday)









The A9 near Alkmaar, southbound, last Saturday. Bad weather coming up 









Some snow on the A15 near Rotterdam this morning:


----------



## Verso

Palance said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> http://farm1.static.flickr.com/200/440514908_f0d0ca87be.jpg


I've never seen such a sign. But we do have bike-route numbers. The problem is that for example the route #1 runs on the Maribor-Austria road, without any separate bike lane. Wow, great for cycling. :hammer:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Let's


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Go


----------



## ChrisZwolle

To the next page


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 in Wintertime!*






I didn't drive in my own car, so I had to hold the camera in one hand, and signal+steering with the other hand


----------



## Timon91

"Trying to improve your post count?" 

Nice video :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

afslag Hattem:









Even voorbij Hattem.









Hier valt het nog mee met de sneeuw.









Viaduct Heerde. Hier ligt al beduidend meer.




































De A1 inmiddels bij Apeldoorn.









A1 vanaf het tankstation.









A1 richting westen.









Met zoom









Parkeerplaats:









15 centimeter ongeveer (is geen gras, maar een mosachtig struikje)









On the road again.









Ook de vluchtstrook kent sneeuw. Dit in tegenstelling tot de A50.









Het "dal" van de A1.









Even verderop.









Afslag Kootwijk.


----------



## Timon91

Nice pics, Chris. Much more snow than we had over here hno:

By the way, your descriptions are in Dutch 

-edit- That was probably for the thread in the Dutch forums :lol:


----------



## PLH

^^ I get (almost) everything (quite similiar to German)


----------



## Timon91

Dutch and German are quite "ähnlich", yes. However, as a Dutchman you should be carefull using Dutch words in German. The Dutch word "bellen", for instance (which means "to call") means "to moo" in German. So when a Dutchman says "Ich belle nach Hause" he will see some weird German faces :lol:


----------



## Verso

Romantic pics and video.  The motorway is perfectly cleaned too! kay:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

1.300 kilometers of traffic jam. More traffic jam than many countries have motorways!


----------



## Timon91

That's the TomTom source of course, how many kms does (did) the ANWB show?


----------



## Verso

1,298 km? :nuts: Is that the record?


----------



## enschede-er

yeah , It's a very trouble here in the netherlands so much accidents


----------



## Timon91

Verso said:


> 1,298 km? :nuts: Is that the record?


The official record is somewhere around 950 kms, but that is the ANWB, which records all motorway jams. The TomTom service records all jams, so also on the non-motorway roads, and that adds up, really. So I don't think it was a record today.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Actually, ANWB/VID/Rijkswaterstaat get their information mostly from detection in the roadways. These are densely spaced apart in the Randstad, but there are still major stretches without proper traffic jam detection, so TomTom also has more motorway traffic jams. TomTom recieves it's information from cell phone signals.


----------



## Timon91

^^That is the most accurate way, probably. Do you know how many km's the ANWB service reported this morning?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

About 500 kilometers. Very busy, I think we had only 15 - 20 rushhours with more kilometers in the ANWB measuring way.


----------



## Timon91

^^And of course this was a morning rush hour, normally the afternoon/evening/night rush hours are the busiest.

We can expect lots of jams tomorrow, they said on the radio. It's going to freeze again so the roads will get slippery again. I have an early start tomorrow morning, so I guess that I'll have broken both knees and elbows when I finally get to school


----------



## mgk920

Timon91 said:


> The pics of my bike trip, around the southern part of interchange Holendrecht.
> 
> Map:


Are/were there any plans to connect the A9 (from the west) at the A2 with the A6 at the A1 and if so, what is its status?

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There were plans for decades, but it became stalled. They proposed a new tunnel recently (a tunnel that would go "under" the Naarder Lake [In reality, the A6-A9 passes north of this lake, but not in the imagination of many eco clubs]), but was cancelled. Now they're opting to widen all motorways in the Amsterdam region and reconstruct some interchanges. The A1 would get 2 reversible lanes and 5 regular lanes, so that makes 7 lanes of traffic in the rushhour direction.


----------



## Timon91

^^The minister still got the plans for the A6/A9 connection to have another look at it. So there is still a chance


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some news about the A1:

Preliminary funding becomes available; 44 million euros for short term solutions between Apeldoorn and Deventer. In the further future, it's needed to widen the A1 from Apeldoorn to Deventer to 2x4 lanes (2x2+peak hr lanes currently) and 2x3 from Deventer to Hengelo (2x2 currently). The growth of truck traffic will cause a 24/7 line of jammed trucks in 2020, according to calculations.

An additional 200 - 400 million euros is needed for structural solutions for this 45 kilometer stretch of freeway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

140 kilometers of traffic jam in the vicinity of Rotterdam alone. :nuts:

The whole region seems gridlocked.









Amsterdam suffers from over 200 kilometers of traffic jam.









Utrecht ain't much better.


----------



## ABRob

where do you get that? A website (link?)?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

http://www.tomtom.com/hdtraffic/

Belgium and Germany are not yet implemented in the High Definition traffic, but are expected to follow in the near future.


----------



## Timon91

I could see this traffic from my work; the whole city is stuck with cut through traffic hno:


----------



## CborG

In the news today:

Article in Dutch

[quote="Eindhovens Dagblad]

*Akkoord over ruit rond Eindhoven*

door Rob Burg. woensdag 26 november 2008 | 09:54 | Laatst bijgewerkt op: woensdag 26 november 2008 | 11:31

*DEN BOSCH - De ruit rond Eindhoven komt er. Minister Eurlings van verkeer noemt de voltooiing van de ruit een 'nationaal speerpunt'. De verkenning, waarin nut en noodzaak van de ruit is beschreven, is woensdag door de kamer vastgesteld. Het bereikbaar houden van Brainport is van landelijk belang.*

'Bij één incident ligt de hele economie hier plat', zei Eurlings tijdens een recent werkbezoek aan Noord-Brabant. De minister steunt dan ook de plannen van de regio en de provincie om de bereikbaarheid van Zuidoost-Brabant de komende jaren te verbeteren, onder meer met de aanleg van een nieuwe verbindingsweg tussen Eindhoven-noord en de N279 bij Helmond, de zogenoemde grote ruit. Hoeveel geld er naar de regio gaat, is nog niet bekend.

Eurlings heeft voor een zestal knelpunten in het wegennet 1,36 miljard euro gereserveerd. De provincie en het Samenwerkingsverband Regio Eindhoven verwachten dat hiervan een 'substantieel bedrag' naar de regio gaat.

Gedeputeerde Cora van Nieuwenhuizen (verkeer, VVD): "We hebben veel over geld gesproken, er is alleen nog niet afgerekend. Het belangrijkste blijft echter dat je als regio op de zeef ligt van een paar projecten. We horen erbij."

Behalve de voltooiing van de ruit, wordt ook het netwerk van hov-lijnen (hoogfrequente busverbindingen) uitgebreid en komen er twee natuurbruggen. Verder zijn er plannen voor een nieuw station in Acht. Vandaaruit moeten ook hov-lijnen komen naar Eindhoven Airport en het centraal station. 








[/quote]

Short translation:

"The beltway around Eindhoven will be completed. Minister Eurlings of Infrastructure and Transport called the completion of the beltway and keeping the economicly important Eindhoven region accessible a case of "national importance." The minister therefore supports the local plans of the province to improve the accessiblity of the region. The plans include a new connection between the A58, north of Eindhoven, and the N279 near Helmond and improvement of public transport."


It's great news but i'm not quite sure though if the current plans for an eastern beltway are included:


----------



## kosimodo

^^LOL

Haarlemmermeeraansluiting.

Anybody??


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A Haarlemmermeeraansluiting is the Dutch name for a diamond exit. Normally the most simple exit layout.


----------



## Timon91

I must be said that the amount and the length of jams increased horribly in the last few years. Especially on the A27 near Lexmond, for example.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ElviS77 said:


> On the other hand: I worked with a Canadian from Toronto who wasn't at all impressed by Dutch "rush hours"...


The difference is Toronto has 5.5 million inhabitants, while our largest metropolitan area has barely over 1 million people.


----------



## Timon91

^^We can call the Randstad a metropolitan area, the towns are growing much more into each other, but agreed, it's not from 'one city'.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You can't really compare the Randstad to Greater Toronto, urbanwise.


----------



## Timon91

Greater Toronto is probably more widespread, while the Randstad consists of very densely populated towns, but with widespread agricultural land in between. But still, it's all close together, so it's kind of metropolitan area :dunno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Netherlands doesn't have very densely populated towns, European speaking. They're denser than US cities, but nothing compared to major European cities like Paris or Madrid.


----------



## ElviS77

ChrisZwolle said:


> You can't really compare the Randstad to Greater Toronto, urbanwise.


I know. And there's obviously a serious jam problem in the Randstad. My point was merely that everything depends on what you're used to, and afaik, many Dutch motorways have amazingly high AADT figures. It's also the only country in which I've been rather pleased I was going straight through certain junctions - having to figure out the proper lane for a left turn on 3+3+3+3 stretches in heavy, 110 kph traffic, makes me somewhat anxious, even though I'm a pretty experienced motorway driver...


----------



## Wuppeltje

ChrisZwolle said:


> The difference is Toronto has 5.5 million inhabitants, while our largest metropolitan area has barely over 1 million people.


The city of Amsterdam and surrounding cities are advertising themselves as the Amsterdam Metropolitan Area of more than 2 million people, which is twice (1,5x more if you add water) as dense as the Greater Toronto Area. The definition of a metropolitan area is vague, but if you say the Randstad is a metropolitan area we are getting an area very similar in seize (in population and area) as the Greater Toronto Area. 

The Greater Toronto Area isn't impressive in density (780/km2), our most populus provinces have higher densities. The big difference between the Randstad is the urban area of Toronto. The urban area of Toronto has 4,753,120 (according to wiki) on 1,749 km², which would make 2718/km2. This is almost as dense as the city of Rotterdam. The city and the urban area of Toronto are the big difference with the Randstad, not the metropolitan area/conurbation.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

New style signs in my city; Zwolle, Overijssel.


----------



## PLH

Font is definitely too small


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's the standard-issue font size.  I never noticed any problems with it. I must admit I'm not sure the motorway fonts are the same as the non-motorway fonts, since overheads on non-motorways are pretty rare (but not so much anymore lately), so maybe it looks small because the sign is so big


----------



## PLH

Maybe it's because of large signs ase you're saying.

BTW Is the Zwolle ring divided into four parts: noord, zuid, oost and west, or these signs show just directions?


----------



## Verso

I like "RING". Our signs, pointing to our ring, are green and say "AC obroč/ring" (AC=avtocestni=motorway (adjective)), with the motorway sign beside it (even when it points to the expressway part of it, but eventually you can get on the motorway part anyway). Sorry for OT.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

PLH said:


> Maybe it's because of large signs ase you're saying.
> 
> BTW Is the Zwolle ring divided into four parts: noord, zuid, oost and west, or these signs show just directions?


The ringroad is indeed divided into the four cardinal directions you just said. Although, there's no ring west. So the ring East does not travel eastbound, but is along the eastern side of the city.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Time for some videos again 

*A15 motorway Nijmegen - Geldermalsen*

A drive on the westbound A15 motorway, from interchange Valburg near Nijmegen to interchange Deil near Geldermalsen, a distance of 40 kilometers. 






*A2 motorway Geldermalsen - Utrecht*

A drive on the northbound A2 motorway, from Interchange Deil to Interchange Oudenrijn, a distance of 27 kilometers. The A2 is one of the most congested motorways of the Netherlands with individual traffic jams often exceeding 30 kilometers in length. Most of the A2 is now under reconstruction, and generally 2 lanes per direction are added to cope with the major delays of earlier projects. Along this section, the A2 is being widened from 2x2 to 2x4 lanes, including the reconstruction of Interchange Everdingen.


----------



## Timon91

Nice video's Chris :cheers:

I like our new signs though  I can't wait until they install them around here. The area around Arnhem seems to have a lot of these new signs. Does anyone (read: Chris ) know how many % has been replaced by now?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They only replace specific locations for now, and some others with damaged signs. It could take years before everything has been replaced.


----------



## Timon91

Well, I guess that the new motorways (not so many, unfortunately) will get new signs?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are no motorways U/C at the moment in the Netherlands. Maybe some reconstructed ones (A2 perhaps?)


----------



## Timon91

^^Sorry about that, but yes, the A2 is what I was referring to.


----------



## xlchris

Why new signs? I mean, I like them, but there a bit German. But why? Aren't the current ones ok anymore?


----------



## Timon91

They chose for the arrows up (instead of down) for a psychological reason. It would make people drive a little faster. About the rest I don't know much. And yes, they look a bit German, but there's nothing wrong with that.


----------



## SeanT

...signs, is there a directive how these signs have to look like (color, design...)or it is up to every country?
I´m talking about motorways /expressways here.:dunno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

xlchrisij said:


> Why new signs? I mean, I like them, but there a bit German. But why? Aren't the current ones ok anymore?


With the arrows pointing up, the dividing of lanes is better shown, as well as the situation ahead.


----------



## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> What do you guys think of our new signage?


Is the signing manual online?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

http://www.rijkswaterstaat.nl/themas/wegen/bewegwijzering/index.aspx

There's a PDF to the right, I thought I got the image above out of that PDF


----------



## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> http://www.rijkswaterstaat.nl/themas/wegen/bewegwijzering/index.aspx
> 
> There's a PDF to the right, I thought I got the image above out of that PDF


Thanks for this. This is actually a brochure explaining the main changes, rather than the manual (_richtlijnen_) itself. I have looked on Wegenforum.nl and the CROW website, and I suspect CROW will sell the motorway signing guidelines but does not yet have it available through its shop. CROW does sell the signing guidelines for non-motorway roads, but at a cost of €104 excluding shipping, which has driven Dutch road enthusiasts to rely on the consultation draft published in 2004.

I hope that at some point in the future, these guidelines will be placed on the Web where they can be downloaded free of charge.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

CROW guides are usually quite expensive. Even small manuals are over € 30. I have them all at work though


----------



## J N Winkler

Is it possible to obtain the engineering drawings for road improvement projects online? In Spain, Denmark, Sweden, a couple of Canadian provinces, and about 20 US states it is, but I haven't had much luck finding this information for the Netherlands.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, they generally do not have these drawings online. It's more for public information, such as road closures, number of lanes and some technical information like the amount of asphalt etc, but not drawings or something like that. 

Though, sometimes you'll find stuff like this








(I don't know about the source of this drawing)


----------



## J N Winkler

Timon91 said:


> These are quite stupid questions. Even if I were a Nazi or a criminal, I wouldn't say it. They really ask lots of questions that are about nothing. There must be some need to do that :dunno:


Many of the things that are asked about on the I-94W form (the I-94 is a separate form, for nationalities which require a visa for US entry) are not illegal _per se_. For instance, the question about "immoral purposes" is essentially asking you if you are coming into the US to engage in prostitution, which is illegal in most states but is permitted in Nevada. There is also, as far as I know, no law punishing you for being a member of the Nazi party.

However, it is part of US government policy to expedite the removal of undesirables (prostitutes, former Nazis, etc.) from the US. If you are classified as an undesirable but do not declare this on the form and are subsequently found out, you can be prosecuted for making a false writing and deported.

(Re. former Nazis, there have been exceptions--Wernher von Braun was eventually naturalized as a US citizen.)


----------



## Timon91

^^But I guess that they will ask more difficult questions if you say you're a nazi. They don't trust you anyway. When I had my luggage and I was on my way to the customs I was picked out again for more or less the same check. When they saw I was Dutch they called a guy with a drugs dog (he was wandering around in the luggage hall) for an extensive drugs check hno: The biased view that people have of our policy is quite bad. The American policy doesn't work, the Dutch one does.


----------



## J N Winkler

Timon91 said:


> ^^But I guess that they will ask more difficult questions if you say you're a Nazi.


I think the I-94W form has, or has had in the past, a clause to the effect that if the answer to any of the questions is Yes, you should go to the visa section of the US embassy in your country of residence before you attempt to enter the US.

But in actuality I think anyone in a position to say Yes truthfully to those questions will simply lie on the form rather than go through the hassle of a visa application which will almost certainly be rejected. In turn, a false declaration on the I-94W form gives Immigration a pretext to get involved if such a person comes to the attention of law enforcement in the US.



> When I had my luggage and I was on my way to the customs I was picked out again for more or less the same check. When they saw I was Dutch they called a guy with a drugs dog (he was wandering around in the luggage hall) for an extensive drugs check hno: The biased view that people have of our policy is quite bad. The American policy doesn't work, the Dutch one does.


Some American states have a system similar to the I-94W questions in regard to drugs. Illegal drugs like marijuana, heroin, and cocaine are taxed at the state level in many states--you can buy tax stamps for these drugs in Kansas, for example. Because possession is illegal, it is not actually expected that any drug dealer will buy stamps for his drugs. (These stamps are generally purchased only by collectors!) But if the drug dealer is caught, and the evidence is not good enough to convict him in criminal court, he can still be pursued for unpaid taxes because the standard of proof in tax proceedings (balance of probabilities) is lower than in criminal cases (reasonable doubt).

Anyway--my apologies for going off-topic.


----------



## Timon91

The form says that you might be refused entry if you answered "yes" at any question, and they advise you to go to the ambassy beforehand. 

But indeed, we're getting OT. Were there actually any problems today with the snowy weather?


----------



## Verso

Timon91 said:


> When I had my luggage and I was on my way to the customs I was picked out again for more or less the same check. When they saw I was Dutch they called a guy with a drugs dog (he was wandering around in the luggage hall) for an extensive drugs check hno:


It's the same as (for example) someone from the Balkans or Eastern Europe (or Africa, if you wish) coming to a border crossing. He'll be checked for sure, even though very few Balkanites or Eastern Europeans are actually criminals (or doing sth else wrong).

Nice videos. :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Video: A27 Utrecht - Almere*

A drive on the northbound A27 motorway, from interchange Lunetten to Interchange Almere, a distance of 43 kilometers. The drive passes by the city of Utrecht, the most important road hub in the Netherlands, and Hilversum, the media capital of the Netherlands. The video ends near Almere, with 200,000 inhabitants, the largest suburb in the Netherlands.


----------



## Timon91

Yeah, Almere is a 'suburb' of Amsterdam (though it's the sixth or seventh city of the country). Almere is also one of the major reasons why the A1 has become way too small.


----------



## railway stick

And here we are on the A10 Motorway, Amsterdam-West. (on a Saturday afternoon):


----------



## Verso

What's that car you were overtaking all the time?  And I like windmills. Many people don't like them, b/c they are "ruining" the nature, but to me it's even more beautiful with them.


----------



## Timon91

^^People often complain about windmills because they ruin the sight and can make a weird, low noise, which according to them causes headaches. We just have too much NIMBY's to be able to run our country on wind energy for a big part hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Verso said:


> What's that car you were overtaking all the time?


On my video? It was a Mercury Grand Marquis. Quite uncommon in the Netherlands.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A2 Everdingen - Deil will be widened to 2x4 lanes!

PDF with extensive drawings

^^ @ JN Winkler

map of the future 2x4 section:


----------



## Timon91

:banana: Strumatic 

When will they start building? Maybe it's in the pdf file, but my computer can't open it or sth. First time I've actually got problems with pdf files :dunno:


----------



## Verso

Timon91 said:


> First time I've actually got problems with pdf files :dunno:


First time I've actually got NO problems with long pdf files.  :cheers:


----------



## J N Winkler

ChrisZwolle said:


> A2 Everdingen - Deil will be widened to 2x4 lanes!
> 
> PDF with extensive drawings
> 
> ^^ @ JN Winkler


Many thanks--this is good stuff!


----------



## ABRob

ChrisZwolle said:


> A2 Everdingen - Deil will be widened to 2x4 lanes!
> 
> PDF with extensive drawings
> 
> ^^ @ JN Winkler
> 
> map of the future 2x4 section:


Are there such maps for other projects available on the net?


----------



## CborG

Something like these?

A2 Zaltbommel-Empel:
http://www.rijkswaterstaat.nl/images/Tracekaarten_tcm174-211942.pdf

A2 Ring 's Hertogenbosch:
http://www.infra2.nl/downloads/website/kaarten_deel1.zip
http://www.infra2.nl/downloads/website/kaarten_deel2.zip

A74 Venlo-Germany:
http://www.inspraakpunt.nl/Images/LBWX_2003-16010_tcm224-179322.pdf

A5 westrandweg Amsterdam
http://www.inspraakpunt.nl/projecten/procedures/ontwerptracbesluitwestrandweg2007.aspx
(scroll down for the maps/kaarten)

A9-A6 Schiphol-Almere
http://www.inspraakpunt.nl/projecten/procedures/trajectnotamerschipholamsterdamalmere2008.aspx
(scroll down for the maps/kaarten)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

New bridge across N7 in Sneek (Friesland)


----------



## H123Laci

^^ wow. does it symbolise something?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

:banana::banana::banana:

The 2nd Coen Tunnel has finally been approved! All objections are now put aside, which means construction can begin on one of the biggest chokepoint of the Amsterdam region.

The 2nd Coen Tunnel is added onto the A10 motorway, the beltway of Amsterdam, which currently has only 2x2 lanes without shoulders and a traffic volume of 110.000 vehicles a day.


----------



## msz2

ChrisZwolle said:


> New bridge across N7 in Sneek (Friesland)


Very original foot bridge, it's made of laminated timber probably (as far as I can see from the photo).


----------



## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


> The 2nd Coen Tunnel is added onto the A10 motorway, the beltway of Amsterdam, which currently has only 2x2 lanes without shoulders and a traffic volume of 110.000 vehicles a day.


thats about the nominal capacity of a 2x3+1 motorway...

when will you start building of the 3rd Coen tunnel? :lol:


----------



## H123Laci

^^ btw: why have you built tunnel?

It seems there are enough space for the acces ramps for a high bridge...


----------



## Timon91

AFAIK because some very high ships have to pass, and shortly after the bridge ends there are exits. Furthermore, NIMBY's will complain about a ruined view hno:


----------



## SeanT

.....and what would be the solution for those traffic-jams in the NL?
4000kms of motorways or (10 lanes) or something else? It is only a question so please don´t mention €! hno::banana:


----------



## H123Laci

^^ only 3 thing: widening, widening and widening! (from 2x2 to 2x3 and 2x4)
(and some new streches)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

SeanT said:


> .....and what would be the solution for those traffic-jams in the NL?
> 4000kms of motorways or (10 lanes) or something else? It is only a question so please don´t mention €! hno::banana:


No. First of all, our motorway network is pretty much complete, the list of very urgent new sections is quite short, only a few dozens of kilometers. The major problem in the Netherlands is;

1) No alternatives to motorways. It's nearly impossible to drive from Utrecht or Almere to Amsterdam without hitting the motorway or very local roads. 

2) Lack of capacity on the motorways. Many sections are still 2x2 lanes, also between major cities. Some motorways require long distance 2x3 upgrades due to the tremendous amount of truck traffic, especially the hinterland connections to Germany and Belgium. The A16 is an example of a 2x3 hinterland connection. 

3) Lack of jobcenters outside the larger cities, everybody commutes to the nearest city of sometimes further. Hence, large commuter flows from every village and town, since we're not an agricultural country anymore.


----------



## H123Laci

^^ a modern and rich country cant be an "agricultural country" b/c agriculture is heavily machinized, makes only 5% of jobs.

only a poor, undeveloped country can be an agricultural country, b/c of lack of machinization...


----------



## Dan

Are there any plans for any significant widening of the Dutch motorways (maybe even current construction?), or is nothing beyond paper right now?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The A2 is the only motorway that's under significant widening now or in the near future;

Amsterdam - Utrecht 2x3 -> 2x5
Everdingen - Deil 2x2 -> 2x4
Den Bosch 2x3 -> 4x2
Eindhoven 2x3 -> 2+3+3+2

Other plans include the A1

Amsterdam - Almere -> 2x3+1 -> 2x5+2

However, most widenings in the last 15 years were mostly peak hour lanes; shoulders as driving lanes.


----------



## xlchris

I just wanted to post a picture of it.....

Bad accident  It will cause a lot of traffic jams I guess, or are they gone?


----------



## paF4uko

ChrisZwolle said:


> Only 1 lightly injured luckily (the Lithuanian driver)


Well, that's a good news!


----------



## Timon91

On the radio they said that there was some shampoo that got on the road. I wonder how they cleaned it - spray it off with water? 

Anyway, this morning the roads were really slippery, I had to be very careful on my bike hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They cleaned it with a socalled "ZOAB cleaner". (ZOAB = porous asphalt concrete).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another problem occured this afternoon at the inbound A1 motorway near Amsterdam. A big crack got into the right lane, which subsequently had to be closed. To keep the traffic flowing, the opened the tidal lane towards Amsterdam, but the problem is a lot of traffic is getting out of Amsterdam at the moment, requiring that tidel lane in the outbound direction. So, as a result, both directions are jammed, and Amsterdam can prepare for a gridlock.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

15 cars collided on the A4 motorway just south of Amsterdam (near Nieuw-Vennep). This adds to the traffic chaos around Amsterdam, nearly all motorways are jammed, causing 241 kilometers of traffic jam within a 20 kilometer range of Amsterdam.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Utrecht: 217 kilometers traffic jam.









Amsterdam: 228 kilometers traffic jam.









Randstad area: 597 kilometers of traffic jam.









These are normal conditions. hno:


----------



## RR1991

Those aren't normal conditions luckily, but if the government won't make any big changes it will be a normal condition in the near future. It's absurd that they allow new coal power plants being build, but new roads are denied because of environmental reasons?... I'll be glad to leave this country someday


----------



## BND

Wow, there is even traffic jam in Flevoland


----------



## ElviS77

ChrisZwolle said:


> Utrecht: 217 kilometers traffic jam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amsterdam: 228 kilometers traffic jam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Randstad area: 597 kilometers of traffic jam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are normal conditions. hno:


Just curious: How are the different jam colour codings defined? I guess red refers to complete standstill, but what about the shades of yellow/orange..?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It depends on the road type. For motorways; red is completely stationary traffic, orange is slow to stationary and yellow is slow (below 70 km/h at a 120 km/h limit or 60 km/h at 100 km/h).


----------



## Timon91

No jams near Abcoude. Holy shit 

Traffic is quite bad again because of the crack in the A1. AFAIK there are still some lanes closed.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Traffic chaos today again, this time especially around Rotterdam. A truck and two cars collided, and two lanes had to be closed on A20 (of the three lanes). The result all inbound routes were jammed, up to 40 kilometers in advance of Rotterdam.


----------



## Timon91

Wasn't the A20 the busiest motorway in the Netherlands? A big accident must be fun in rush hour.... hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, that's the A16. A20 has 180.000, A16 230.000


----------



## pijanec

RR1991 said:


> Those aren't normal conditions luckily, but if the government won't make any big changes it will be a normal condition in the near future.


This country is extremely overpopulated. There are hardly any feasible solutions for that in short run.


----------



## Timon91

The planning how to divide the available land is incredibly good though. Not even 20 km out of Amsterdam's city centre you're in the middle of nowhere. But considering transportation: people need to take the bike if they have a short commute (don't take the car if you live less than 5 km from your work, unless the weather doesn't allow it), and if you can, take public transport for the longer runs. Even in my village, Abcoude, with only a few thousand inhabitants, we have very good public transportation. 

Unfortunately the companies that run the public transportation are going to f*ck up the whole system from next week on, so that means that there will be 50% less trains and 50% less buses. That's also a good way to form traffic jams hno::evil:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Actually, I've read under 10% of the people travelling with public transportation have an everyday alternative in the form of a car. Most of those are also travelling outside rushhours, so the effect if those people return to their cars would be pretty minimal. Initially there are more traffic jams, but we've seen that the extra amount of congestion is nearly undetectable if PT strikes for more than two days. (most recently the bus strike in May).


----------



## Timon91

Are you going to bike to your work as well when you've moved to your new house? 
Or did you already move in there?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I get my keys next week, and yes, I intend to bike as much as weather allows


----------



## Timon91

Great, no more jams for you on your way to work


----------



## pijanec

Timon91 said:


> The planning how to divide the available land is incredibly good though.


What are main historical reasons for such a high population density in this particular area (Netherlands)?


----------



## Timon91

Trade, probably. The land is good for agriculture, no mountains, so it's easy to move around, and the climate is mild. And of course, once you moved in, it's impossible to get out because of the jams


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Actually 86% of the Dutch land area is unbuild. Motorways take 0,02% of the Dutch land area.


----------



## Timon91

Yeah, the country is 'paved over' with motorways. Those environmentalists are completely right


----------



## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


> Motorways take 0,02% of the Dutch land area.


how could it be?
we (in hungary) have the same ratio with much lower motorway density...

(1000km * 20m / 100.000km2 = 0,02%)

your density is about 5-6 times higher, isnt it?


----------



## Timon91

Strange, the Netherlands has over 2000 kms of motorway but is only 41.000 km² :dunno:


----------



## mapman:cz

Timon91 said:


> Strange, the Netherlands has over 2000 kms of motorway but is only 41.000 km² :dunno:


Well, then if you count 25 m as an average width of motorway over there (it may be 12 m wide carriageway in each direction?), the value should be 0,12 % ... CZ has 0,032 % of paved motorway surface compared to the land area...


----------



## Koesj

pijanec said:


> What are main historical reasons for such a high population density in this particular area (Netherlands)?


A comparatively advanced level of agriculture during the middle ages onwards led to the development of lots of medium and smaller sized towns. In the twentieth century a lot of these places were earmarked as 'growth towns' in order to spin off undesirable metropolitan development of the bigger cities onto more rural areas. These days there are very little truly rural spaces in the Randstad or the whole of the Netherlands bar the more remote parts.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Zoetermeer, Almere and Purmerend are good examples of these sattellite towns. 

The main problems today in the Netherlands:

1) Every self-respecting municipality has new neighborhoodconstruction. Hence, increased travel from surrounding towns and villages to the main city. Crowded roads.

2) Central cities are not build for automotive travel, and adding new capacity is difficult due to resistance and limited space. Hence, building new neighborhoods on the edges of the jobcenters is also undesired due to the fact they outgrow their road/street network without much possibilities to increase this to handle the growth. My own city, Zwolle, is a good example of that. No new roads were constructed since the 70's, while the population growed from 60.000 to 115.000


----------



## pijanec

Thanks for answers.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

From late January 2009 on, commuters to Amsterdam have to take extra delays into account, because on the A1 motorway, the Muiderbridge will be replaced by a cable-stayed bridge because the current bridge is over 30 years old and carries more traffic (200.000 vehicles/day) than it is designed for.


----------



## Timon91

^^I just heard on the radio, but people that drive there daily can get a "mobility pass" to travel with the public transport


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ I know, they do that kind of projects more often.

Problems:

People already using PT get extra discount unfairly.

The amount of people using PT instead of a car is very low. They've added extra parking spaces at Lage Zwaluwe station on the A16 motorway. Result: 12 extra passengers per day. (of over 120.000 people using the A16 daily). Effect: 0,0001% fewer cars on the road. 

My opinion about those mobilty/PT passes: Nice PR-talk, but doesn't really makes a difference on the road. 

They only publish the amount of passes requested, but it remains a mystery if they are actually used daily by commuters or just for the occasional traveller.


----------



## Timon91

How long will it take before this new bridge is finished? www.nu.nl doesn't yet say anything about it :dunno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Nu.nl is not your only source of media, I hope...

http://www.rijkswaterstaat.nl/themas/wegen/nieuws_en_persberichten/


----------



## Timon91

Ah well, but it's the one that I often use, and most news is published very very quickly, so that's why I use it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Quite a number of lanes here!


----------



## Timon91

I found a Bundesautobahnfourish exit ramp on the A27. I didn't know we still had these in the Netherlands.


----------



## PLH

^^ What do you mean by BABfourish?


----------



## Timon91

Very very short exit-ramp. You often see that on the BAB 4 in Thuringen and Sachsen, because it's very hilly over there.


----------



## xlchris

^Some exit ramps are realy realy short in Germany yes. Very annoying, because you can drive about 130/150 and then you have to break as fast as you can!


----------



## Timon91

To me it seems like an A4 problem. Poland also has those too short exit ramps at some spots on the Polish A4. The Dutch one doesn't have that though


----------



## PLH

Timon91 said:


> Poland also has those too short exit ramps at some spots on the Polish A4.


Where?


----------



## Timon91

I'm not sure where exactly, but there was a rest area with a very dangerous exit-ramp, followed by a sharp curve. I know for sure it was on the A4, and I guess somewhere near Legnica.


----------



## ABRob

Timon91 said:


> Very very short exit-ramp. You often see that on the BAB 4 in Thuringen and Sachsen, because it's very hilly over there.





Timon91 said:


> To me it seems like an A4 problem. Poland also has those too short exit ramps at some spots on the Polish A4. The Dutch one doesn't have that though


It's not because it's hilly and it's not because it's A4 - it is because the road is old!

All old 'Reichsautobahnen' had such short exit-ramps. And I think the part of the PL-A4 is also a old RAB.
After the modernisation and widening to 2x3 the (DE-)A4 has also normal exit-ramps - everywhere.


----------



## Timon91

I see. I was particularly referring to the section around Eisenach, where the road is very narrow. Luckily they're building a small new stretch around Eisenach. Did they already finish that. And will that be 2×3?


----------



## xlchris

When was the first traffic jam in the Netherlands?

Some say 29 may 1955, others say 9 august 1928 (Olympic Games).


----------



## H123Laci

^^ No crashbarrier? (even a dirty one? :lol


----------



## PLH

ABRob said:


> PL-A4 is also a old RAB.


Yes, but it deos not haave such short exit ramps like on old section of your A11.


----------



## Timon91

H123Laci said:


> ^^ No crashbarrier? (even a dirty one? :lol


Even the shoulders have different pavement, and the road is made of concrete. Radi will not like this hno:


----------



## enschede-er

Look at this pic i found on google, its in the Netherlands i dont know wich road it is :


----------



## Timon91

I don't know which road it is, but I saw a similar accident on the Dutch-Belgian border......with tomatoes 
It's over ten years ago though.


----------



## H123Laci

enschede-er said:


> Look at this pic i found on google, its in the Netherlands i dont know wich road it is :
> 
> http://www.almostsmart.com/upload/files/2005/Feb/MultipleDeathAutobahnCrash.JPG


heres the hungarian edition:









MORE IMAGES


----------



## H123Laci

Timon91 said:


> I don't know which road it is, but I saw a similar accident on the Dutch-Belgian border......with tomatoes
> It's over ten years ago though.


I cant find a tomato case, but heres a pumpkin case: :nuts:










MORE IMAGES


----------



## Verso

:lol:


----------



## H123Laci

...and the last one (and most brutal) for now (and today): the PB gas bottle case:










MORE IMAGES


----------



## Morsue

^^ The last one is just scary. Ka-BOOM!


----------



## Timon91

The pumpkins looked somehow like the tomatoes, but I'm afraid I can't find any pics of that one as well, since it was over 10 years ago.


----------



## jpeter

Can somebody post me a picture from Speed Limits at the Netherlands? Thanks


----------



## Timon91

^^


----------



## jpeter

Thank you, Timon!!!!


----------



## Koesj

Note that there are intermediate limits all the way from 15km/h (on 'living' streets), 30km/h zones in urban residential areas, 60km/h zones on rural non-thoroughfares, 70km/h on urban thoroughfares and recently short 90km/h signs on motorways for legal reasons. It's a mess.


----------



## Timon91

And of course 80 or 100 km/h on the provincial roads, and 80, 100 and 120 km/h on the motorways. Normally the matrix signs over the motorway indicate 50, but that's a completely different story


----------



## Timon91

Considering that the A6/A9 connection won't be there, are there any plans to upgrade the Gaasperdammerweg (A9 Holendrecht-Diemen)?


----------



## CborG

^^Yes, it will be widened. One proposal is the Kamelenvariant (Camelvariant) The name comes from the way it looks like from the side, two tunnels and a humb in the middle:









Bigger version (PDF file) http://www.zuidoost.amsterdam.nl/as...ges/86706/gdwwebsitenov2007kamelenvariant.pdf

It should be a Dromedaris though because there is only one humb :lol:

Map with the proposed widenings of the motorways southeast of Amsterdam:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interesting news today about the recent fuel prices;



> *More fuel tanked despite higher gas prices*
> *
> The high fuel prices in the first three quarters of 2008 did not caused a drop in fuel usage, in contrast, the fuel consumption went up a little compared to the same period in 2007.*
> 
> That shows a recent publication of the Central Bureau of Statistics (CBS). During the first nine months, 10.2 billion liters of fuel were consumed as opposed to 10.1 billion liters a year before. That is an increase of 0.9%. The increase was because of diesel, because the petrol usage went down a little.
> 
> The amount of petrol used dropped 0.9%, and diesel usage went up by 2.2%. Most liters still go to trucks, but more and more personal vehicles drive on diesel.
> 
> Meanwhile, after the first 8 months of 2008, prices collapsed at the pump, reaching € 1,69 per liter or $ 10 per gallon in June, while prices are now down to € 1,20 per liter or $ 5.9 per gallon at the end of December.
> 
> Despite the much lower gas prices, people did also not drive a lot more recently. Ofcourse more people take other transportation options for short grocery-store drives, but that's very marginal on the total consumption, main economist Michiel Vergeer said. The lower price might encourage people to go on winter holidays with their car instead of an airplane.


It is interesting because it shows that mobility is not as price-elastic as many think. This is of an important value in the current electronic toll proposals discussions in the Netherlands, since it is assumed that people would drive less if their cost per kilometer increase. The gas price increase between 2003 and 2008 was more than the electronic tolls would have done to more expensive kilometers, so it's doubtful again if the very expensive implementation and operation of the electronic tolls would be justifiable to the result.


----------



## Timon91

Doesn't this say that we still depend on our cars too much?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

In some way, yes. But there's also not a way to lower the cardepency in a cost efficient way. I don't think "toll 'em to death" is very good for the economy. People don't like to give up the convenience of their own transportation instead of relying on something you can't control.


----------



## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


> It is interesting because it shows that mobility is not as price-elastic as many think.


and it shows that most of the people arent joyriding but do their job... 

and an iteresting paradoxon: those who has time to joyride (b/c no job) has no money to buy fuel... :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Man alive, another new sign near Arnhem city. I doubt if there are more announcement signs with distances like these in the Netherlands.


----------



## xlchris

I also saw this new signs in the Haarlemmermeer (not as posted above, but just the new sings)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The traffic jam pressure (length multiplied by time) dropped 1.4% this year, the first drop in years. This was mostly because of slightly fewer traffic jams during the evening rushhour. Traffic made a swift from rushhours to non-rushhours, because the traffic jam pressure increased by 4% between rushhours. This also means our road network has reached the absolute saturation point. The busiest day was March 25th with 888 kilometers of traffic jam, according to the ANWB tourism and automobile association.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Zwolle-Zuid (South) Tour*

A drive through Zwolle-Zuid the largest residential neighborhood of Zwolle with 35,000 inhabitants.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N50 Zwolle - Emmeloord*

A drive on the Northbound N50, the major highway connecting the city of Zwolle with Kampen and Emmeloord.


----------



## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> *Zwolle-Zuid (South) Tour*


What are these magnet needle shaped markings on the road?



ChrisZwolle said:


> *N50 Zwolle - Emmeloord*


Boooring, 2x1, noone is overtaking


----------



## ChrisZwolle

PLH said:


> What are these magnet needle shaped markings on the road?


I'm not sure what you mean, can you give me a timeframe where you see it?



> Boooring, 2x1, noone is overtaking


It's 2+1  It was really quiet on the roads today. Holiday time, nearly no traffic jams today.


----------



## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> I'm not sure what you mean, can you give me a timeframe where you see it?


1:00, just before this Peugeot turs right.



ChrisZwolle said:


> It's 2+1


So only Scandinavians are crazy enough to make 2x1 roads:nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Oh what you see are either brick or painted "traffic droplets". There are placed to make it clearer there's a turn in the road. It's also a traffic calming object, since it is believed it gives slower speed, hence fewer people take their car. (I actually can't believe experts accept that kind of thought).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The first real workday of the year starts off with 1.200 kilometers of traffic jam


----------



## Timon91

No wonder, we had rain tonight and later on temperatures dropped below zero. I leave for school within an hour, and I guess I can skate over the roads, instead of bike hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> A2 Maastricht → Eindhoven
> Langzaam rijdend tot stilstaand verkeer tussen Maastricht-Aachen Airport en Waalre 72km
> 
> A58 Bergen op Zoom → Eindhoven
> Langzaam rijdend tot stilstaand verkeer tussen Roosendaal en Best 70km
> 
> A67 Venlo → Turnhout
> Langzaam rijdend verkeer tussen Helden en Waalre 30km
> 
> A2 Utrecht → Eindhoven
> Langzaam rijdend tot stilstaand verkeer tussen 's-Hertogenbosch-Centrum en Ekkersweijer 25km


:nuts:


----------



## Timon91

The longest one according to the ANWB is on the A58, and is 45 km long :crazy:

Chris, do you go to work by bike since you moved to your new apartment?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There isn't much snow here.. Only like 1cm. Southern Netherlands got the most snow.


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> The first real workday of the year starts off with 1.200 kilometers of traffic jam


I will wait a while before I will leave to the office . The ANWB reports 651 km on the highways. That means that with connecting roads and provincial roads the 1,200 km traffic jam mark could very well be true.


----------



## xlchris

The news on the radio just reported that there aren't any traffic jams.
But it's very icy, so you couldn't go any faster than 40km/h on some highways this morning.


----------



## Timon91

Yeah, I almost fell of my bike a few times this morning. Tomorrow is going to be hell, it's going to get quite cold (up to -10) and I will definately freeze on my way to school. When it stays to be dry like this, the roads won't be very slippery anymore, which is a good thing


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It took people 4 hours to cover just 80 km / 50 miles from Kerkrade to Eindhoven this morning.


----------



## xlchris

In the East and the South of NL it's going to be -14 this evening. 
At least they say it's going to.


----------



## Timon91

Two lanes are closed on the A6 between Almere and Muiden, because of cracks in the asphalt. This happened because of the heavy frost, and they cannot repair it until it stops freezing, but that will only be in three or four days. Meanwhile, Almere-Muiden is only one lane for a big part, which creates a huge bottleneck. hno:

Does anyone know when they start building the new bridge on the A1 near Muiden?


----------



## Natomasken

ChrisZwolle said:


> *N50 Zwolle - Emmeloord*
> 
> A drive on the Northbound N50, the major highway connecting the city of Zwolle with Kampen and Emmeloord.


Does the green paint between the center lines have any specific meaning? I've seen something similar (red, I think) in pictures of French roads.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ It means 100 km/h is allowed. The Dutch government tries to make a uniform road layout for every speed limit. It doesn't work out too well so far...


----------



## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


> The first real workday of the year starts off with 1.200 kilometers of traffic jam


maybe there are too many car-dependent shopping centers... :lol:


----------



## H123Laci

Timon91 said:


> Yeah, I almost fell of my bike a few times this morning.


Maybe you should try a trike... :lol:


----------



## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


>


wow. you have quite a lot of paint...

we even have no paint for the line on the edge of the roads... hno:


----------



## Timon91

H123Laci said:


> Maybe you should try a trike... :lol:


That doesn't go that fast, unfortunately :lol:


----------



## kosimodo

Timon91 said:


> That doesn't go that fast, unfortunately :lol:



U know what a trike is dont u
http://www.google.com/search?hl=da&q=trike&lr=


----------



## Timon91

Yes, I do. However, I think that H123Laci means the unmotorised one, since my bike is also unmotorised. Therefore, I don't think that a trike is faster then a bike, and if it is, I still won't buy one, because the people at school will laugh at me


----------



## enschede-er

In the Netherlands here it is -15 degrees! :cheers:


----------



## H123Laci

Timon91 said:


> Yes, I do. However, I think that H123Laci means the unmotorised one, since my bike is also unmotorised. Therefore, I don't think that a trike is faster then a bike, and if it is, I still won't buy one, because the people at school will laugh at me


yeah, the no motor one... 

maybe this one is fast enough, and you will be admired not laughed: :lol:


----------



## Rebasepoiss

What?! You can skate in the Netherlands and we can't in Estonia? Climate changes suck!


----------



## Majestic

The shoulder seems extremely wide. Does it follow NL standards?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Yeah, normal shoulder width here is at least 3.5 m


----------



## Ni3lS

What do you guys mean by 'shoulder'? Maybe a stupid question, but I want to know :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Vluchtstrook. Emergency lane is also a term, but shoulder is more widely used I guess.


----------



## Robosteve

Nielsiej13 said:


> What do you guys mean by 'shoulder'? Maybe a stupid question, but I want to know :lol:


The area of paved road to the right of the edge line, the part that is not used for through travel but is sometimes used for emergency stopping.


----------



## Ni3lS

Ok. Thanks


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A28 Zwolle - Hoogeveen*

A drive of 45 kilometers from Hattem via Zwolle to the Hoogeveen cloverleaf.


----------



## enschede-er

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ Vluchtstrook. Emergency lane is also a term, but shoulder is more widely used I guess.


Or Spitstrook


----------



## Koesj

^^ As soon as the shoulder is used as a peak lane yeah.


----------



## Timon91

Generally speaking it is a "vluchtstrook", "spitsstrook" only in case it is used as a peak lane. Luckily most motorways have shoulders, that makes it much safer. It's at least better then nothing.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

We have also a "plus lane", which is a peak hour lane on the left. Their design vary, the one on A28 near Zwolle is extremely narrow (2.5 m) and the one on A1 near Deventer seems near-regular width.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A28 near Zwolle:

Sunday traffic:









regular traffic:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Busy on A2:


----------



## Timon91

Is it ever quiet?


----------



## enschede-er

Every day Snow , Ice , Rain in hollandhno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The next 10km on that webcam is actually the spot with the most traffic jams in the Netherlands. There were 278,930 minutes that there was 1 km of traffic jam.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Funny, the "Achterhoek" (rural area in eastern Netherlands) advertised throughout the country with German-style signs.


----------



## Timon91

I only went there twice. Once on a bike trip, and once by train. I didn't really like it though :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, it's boring as hell, pastures with small wooded areas and no interesting towns. But in the eye of the urban Randstad-inhabitants who never saw a cow it's interesting. It's some kind of legend that people from the Randstad think milk is produced at a factory, they don't know it comes from cows :lol:


----------



## Timon91

When I went there by train I went to Winterswijk with a friend. When we got there the first thing we thought was "when is the first train going back out of this place" :lol:


----------



## Koesj

Yeah Winterswijk really is el culo del mundo, van Gogh used to live there though.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Timon91 said:


> ^^Really, in the Netherlands? I've never seen that over here.
> 
> You mean something like this:





ChrisZwolle said:


> Yes, exactly like that.
> 
> Location: N307 Dronten - Kampen (Flevoland part)


From the Roadside rest area.

I actually took a picture of it a while ago.


----------



## kosimodo

ChrisZwolle said:


> No, it's boring as hell


Says the guy from Zwolle.................


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I didn't say Zwolle is a bustling city


----------



## Timon91

Abcoude is way more interesting than Zwolle 




Ahum.....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 a.k.a Warschauer Allee*

Warsaw Alley. Called that way because of the amount of Polish truckers, and the E30 eventually went to Warszawa.

*Part I*

1. Arderweg viaduct.









2. Arderweg.









3. Spitsstrook camera.









4. Arderweg.









5. Trucks, trucks, trucks.









6. Arderweg.









7. Beltdinkdijk viaduct bij Bathmen.









8. Beltinkdijk.









9. Beltdinkdijk, parkeerplaats.









10. Globetrotter in action.









11. Beusebergerweg bij Holten.









12. Beusebergerweg.









13. Parking Holten.









14. Larenseweg bij Holten.









15. Inhalende trucks.









16. Actie zal niet gewaardeerd worden door de tientallen auto's erachter.









17. Truck alley.









18. Afslag Holten.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Part II

19. Markeloseweg.









20. Parking Holten.









21. Marsdijk.









22. Marsdijk









23. Oxersteeg bij Deventer-Oost.









24. Oxersteeg









25. Afslag Deventer-Oost.









26. Sluinerweg bij Voorst.









27. Sluinerweg.









28. Voor aansluiting Voorst.









29. Tot teleurstelling van velen zal de spitsstrook niet open zijn.


----------



## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> *A1 a.k.a Warschauer Allee*


No kidding  Is it offcially approved?

----------

What is sluinerweg?


----------



## Timon91

Yes.....





....by Chris


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Sluinerweg is just some local road crossing the A1. Most Dutch road names are stupid anyway. I like German and English road names way better. 

Well, I don't think it's officially the Warschauer Allee, since we normally do not name motorways, but I think the name is appropriate. The German A2 has also been called that (I wrote a bit about it on my blog). Most non Dutch trucks there are Polish.


----------



## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> Sluinerweg is just some local road crossing the A1.


OK, bad guess. Why this additional lane in the middle being closed when there is a heavy traffic(non-dutch standards) and what it is for?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's a Spitsstrook

It's closed because this is not seen as heavy traffic in the Netherlands. It is only to be opened if there would be congestion otherwise. They should change it into a regular lane in my opinion.


----------



## PLH

^^ Does narrowing the road when there is 'low' traffic make any sense whatsoever? Differen markings, red crosses on signs every xx meters. What for?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Rules, and rules only. It makes no sense at all I know, but this country is literally drowned in rules that go beyond any pratical approach. 

The costs of a spitsstrook are eventually higher than a normal lane, because they have to be monitored 24/7 with camera's and the additional electronic signage that's required isn't really cheap either. The initial investment is a bit lower, but the operational costs are far higher than a regular lane.


----------



## PLH

:weird:

From now on the very first place in moronic road ideashno:

It's so unbelivebly stupid I don't know what to say.


----------



## Timon91

ChrisZwolle said:


> Most Dutch road names are stupid anyway.


Have a look in this neighbourhood


----------



## Qaabus

PLH said:


> :weird:
> 
> From now on the very first place in moronic road ideashno:
> 
> It's so unbelivebly stupid I don't know what to say.


Still better than nothing at all, which would have been the alternative. 
Spitsstroken could be constructed a lot faster because of some loopholes is the law.


----------



## Majestic

Heavy traffic lane? WTF? Yeah, that's really the dumbest idea I've heard of. :crazy:

What's the fine for driving in that lane anyway?


----------



## Timon91

Really, a lot of money. If one person starts driving there, more people will follow. It's really a stupid idea. There is nothing wrong with 2×3, except in the Netherlands, as it seems hno:

-edit- Driving over the shoulder just to overtake traffic will cost you €200. I think that it might be the same as for using a closed Spitsstrook.


----------



## 909

Timon91 said:


> There is nothing wrong with 2×3, except in the Netherlands, as it seems hno:


There is something wrong with our politicians, left and right. Why bother voting at all with their ivory tower attitude?


----------



## cristof

omg, NL. highways are jammed all the time,... and NL citizens continue to use the highways ? i cant understand, all the highways must be upgraded with wideness i bet but the overcrowding in this country may cause troubles...so, the future is the train in NL, isnt it?


----------



## Timon91

The bicycle is the past and the future, IMO


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A50 Apeldoorn - Zwolle*

From viaducts. If roads are named, those are the crossing local roads.

1. Beemterweg.









2. Beemterweg.









3. Richting noorden.









4. Broeklanderweg viaduct.









5. Afslag Apeldoorn-Noord in de verte.









6. Kanaalweg, afslag Vaassen.









7. Brug over het Apeldoorns Kanaal.









8. Oenerweg viaduct.









9. Afslag Epe in de verte.









10. Tussen Apeldoorn en Apeldoorn-Noord, Terwoldseweg viaduct.









11. Afzichtelijke rij lichtmasten hier.









12. Kijkend richting zuiden richting afslag Apeldoorn.









13. Vemderweg viaduct, afslag Heerde-Zuid.









14. Werlerweg viaduct, afslag Epe.









15. Zoom op de afslag.









16. Overzichtsfoto afslag Epe.


----------



## enschede-er

Timon91 said:


> Have a look in this neighbourhood


Or this Town name :


----------



## Timon91




----------



## Majestic

^^ What does it mean?


----------



## PLH

^^ Probably nothing, it's just long.


----------



## Koesj

^^ It's a village in the old peat bogs that were pretty much strip-mined in the 19th and early 20th century. Gasselte is the name of a proximate, much older village on the sands of Drenthe from where the 'colonization' of the peat areas took place. So the new settlement was called 'Gasselter (from/near Gasselte)-nijveensche (of the new peat)-mond (mouth)'. Other examples are Exloo - Exloërmond (either the eerste or tweede, first or second), Buinen, Buinerveen and Nieuw Buinen or Valthe and Valthermond. Check out the land subdivisions in this area: http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nl&ie=UTF8&ll=52.928775,6.981812&spn=0.285186,0.617981&z=11

To keep it on topic, the A37 motorway was only recently opened here and the N33 and N34 that run near this area were never completed as motorways. The eastern parts of Drenthe and Groningen got the shaft after infrastructure funds ran out in the seventies.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Saturday traffic near Den Bosch 








By PW100


----------



## Slagathor

PLH said:


> :weird:
> 
> From now on the very first place in moronic road ideashno:
> 
> It's so unbelivebly stupid I don't know what to say.


Don't worry you'll get there too. Give it a few more years for the EU to stop cutting you slack on environmental policy and you'll be squeezing through just as we are. 

Legislation to widen roads is incredibly complicated mostly due to EU environmental rules. Those rules will soon enough fully apply to Poland as well.


----------



## Mateusz

And as Timon mentioned before, there is lack of good local roads for far distances...

People spoiled themselves with motorways


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Wow, national traffic law enforcer Koos Spee quit. He's hated by many, since he got in office, the number of fines rose from 4 million per year in 1998 to a staggering 12 million in 2008. I don't think many people will regret he's gone.


----------



## H123Laci

Timon91 said:


> Driving over the shoulder just to overtake traffic will cost you €200. I think that it might be the same as for using a closed Spitsstrook.


thats quite cheap... 

it will cost about 600euro in hungary... hno:
(almost two months salary for a starter teacher)

EDIT: driving by 76km/h on a main road at a 30km/h construction site speedlimit will cost 1000 euro!
(about three months salary)

I think we should change the name of our country to FINESTONIA... hno: :bash:


----------



## H123Laci

Timon91 said:


> The bicycle is the past and the future, IMO


yeah... there are bikes for all purposes:

bike for high speed travel on large distances:









for rough terrain:









for taxi:









and for cargo:


----------



## H123Laci

Slagathor said:


> Don't worry you'll get there too. Give it a few more years for the EU to stop cutting you slack on environmental policy and you'll be squeezing through just as we are.


we are about to widen the M0 south to 2x3+1 in a project financed by the EU by 85%... :banana: :lol: :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Okay that's enough cycling for the insane 

Anyway, they've started an interesting trial on the A1 freeway near Amsterdam, it's called DYNAMAX, Dynamic Maximum speed limits. It means the speed limit can be increased to 120 km/h when traffic allows, and be lowered if it is busy. Hope it's gonna be good, it's irritating to drive 100 km/h on an empty rural freeway.


----------



## Timon91

^^Chris, recently you mentioned that they were going to build a new bridge near Muiden on the A1, starting on the 23rd of January 2009. I haven't heard anything anymore ever since. Do you know anything abou this project, and if they will start on this date?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I heard the jacking up of the old bridge took more time than expected, but rumours says it's another reason. We'll just have to sit back and wait.


----------



## Timon91

ChrisZwolle said:


> We'll just have to sit back and wait.


I just hope that we don't have to wait another 50 years, like with the A4 MD hno:


----------



## H123Laci

^^ get a good massage easy-chair, and that 50 years will elapse quite fast... 

btw: nice new avatar... but what does it represent?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

He doesn't like the Yankees.


----------



## Timon91

^^What a surprise


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Deventer Tour*

A tour of Deventer, the 3rd largest city in Overijssel (after Enschede and Zwolle).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N337 IJssel river dike: Deventer - Zwolle*

A drive across the IJssel river dike from Deventer to Zwolle (25km)


----------



## PLH

What is the average speed of most cars on such road in NL?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The speed limit is 80 km/h. However, It differs, I drove on the N35 highway before which also has an 80 speed limit, but I barely got above 70 - 75 because of slowpokes. This road is better, I could mostly drive between 80 and 90.


----------



## kosimodo

Due to the realisation of the A37, the economical crisis there are now plans to make a motorway from the A37 to Cloppenburg

I bet Chris has numbers or he knows where to find it

The artical in Dutch...........

*Via E233 sneller naar Bremen*
* DVHN | Gepubliceerd op 21 januari 2009, 23:32
* Laatst bijgewerkt op 22 januari 2009, 07:45

Via E233 sneller naar Bremen
emmen/nieuweschans - 

Duitsland wil versneld met de verdubbeling van de E233 tussen Meppen en Cloppenburg beginnen. Er is deze week overeenstemming bereikt over de voorbereidingskosten van 6 miljoen euro. Nederland betaalt hieraan mee. De weg zou in 2012 klaar kunnen zijn. 










De Duitsers werken aan infrastructurele maatregelen die de economie in Noord-Duitsland de komende jaren fors moet stimuleren. De verdubbeling van de E233 vanaf Meppen, het laatste stuk van de A37 tussen Hoogeveen en Cloppenburg, is daar onderdeel van.

Sinds de oplevering van het Nederlandse deel van de snelweg tussen Zwolle en Meppen, begin vorig jaar, is al een forse toename van het vrachtverkeer op deze route tussen de Randstad en Duitsland zichtbaar. Verwacht wordt dat deze groei versnelt als de Duitse snelweg richting Bremen helemaal klaar is.

Juist de Duitse overheid leek de verdubbeling van het laatste stuk van de A37 tussen Meppen en Cloppenburg te vertragen. Binnen het bedrijfsleven werden daarom al plannen ontwikkeld de weg met private middelen voor te financieren.

Volgens Hermann Wessels, hoofd van het grensoverschrijdende samenwerkingsverband Interreg in de Eems Dollard Regio, wordt de private voorfinanciering nog wel onderzocht bij de voorbereiding van de definitieve plannen voor de A37, maar wordt ook nadrukkelijk naar 'ouderwetse financiering' door alleen de overheid gekeken. "Als we de planning en het onderzoek zo snel kunnen realiseren, zou gezegd kunnen worden dat de overheid de financiële middelen versneld beschikbaar stelt", aldus Wessels.

De Duitse overheid overweegt de verdubbeling volgens Wessels mee te nemen in het conjunctuurpakket waarmee de kredietcrisis bestreden moet worden. De Duitsers willen daarvoor ook overeenstemming bereiken met Den Haag. Er staan op korte termijn gesprekken gepland. "De stedenkring Zwolle-Emsland en de gemeenten Emmen en Coevorden zijn bereid een financiële bijdrage te leveren", zegt Wessels.

Wie betaalt er mee?

De voorbereidingskosten voor de verdubbeling van de E233 tussen Meppen en Cloppenburg worden op zes miljoen euro geraamd. Drie miljoen daarvan wordt betaald met Europese subsidies. De Nederlandse staat en de deelstaat Nedersaksen willen 900.000 euro ter beschikking stellen. De Landkreisen Emsland en Cloppenburg en de Stedenband Zwolle-Emsland betalen 400.000 euro. De industrie- en handelskamers van Oldenburg en Osnabrück-Emsland betalen elk 75.000 euro.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Dutch, Duits or German?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Would be great to drive in 1.5 hours to Bremen  My record so far is 2 hours via that route, but on a sunday, so no truck traffic. Otherwise it takes longer.


----------



## kosimodo

i was wondering what the effect on the amount of traffic was, now the A37 is motorway all the way to the border.... The article says something about 'een forse toename van het vrachtverkeer ' meaning a significant rise in truck traffic. 

When i read something like that i wanna see numbers!!


----------



## Koesj

I wonder what effect this is going to have on traffic levels on the N33 in Drenthe and Groningen.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

:gaah:


----------



## Majestic

Wow, 718 km of jams......how long's the motorway network again?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

2400km

Note, the above map is only of the Randstad conurbation. There were more traffic jams (most likely around 1000 kilometers).


----------



## Timon91

The pic also shows jams on non-motorways, please note that


----------



## Koesj

Yeah but it's not like the N roads make up the majority of clogged routes, as you can see on the map. So it's still an outrageous disgrace how many jams there are :rant:


----------



## Timon91

We're kind of used to it now


----------



## ChrisZwolle

During busy rushhours 20 - 25% of the total freeway carriageway mileage becomes congested. (2500 km freeway * 2 directions = 5000 km and there are often 1000 - 1200 kilometers of traffic jams). 

To compare this with the United States; that would mean 50.000 kilometers of traffic jam. Or to Germany; 10.000 kilometers of traffic jam.


----------



## Majestic

Congestion on dutch terms doesn't neccessarily mean a typical _ stau,_ or stationary traffic, right? What's the rule for naming slow traffic a congestion on a motorway - 50 km/h average speed? How many of those jams is frozen, stationary traffic?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

traffic jam = < 50 km/h for at least 2 kilometers in NL.


----------



## Koesj

70 km/h in the TomTom reports right?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Only for the yellow parts in TomTom HD traffic on motorways with a 120 km/h speed limit.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Significant problems in the Den Bosch area today. The northbound A2 was closed just north of Den Bosch because the entire roadway came loose. Recently, numerous locations faced damaged pavement due to the combination of freezing weather and insufficient asphalt (porous asphalt concrete is not suitable for long freezing periods). Right now, over 60 locations have reported damages pavements. 

The A2 was closed and caused a virtual gridlock in the region, the deviation motorway of A59 was jammed on it's entire length that was used for detouring traffic (31 kilometers), as well as the A27 nortbound motorway which was jammed over 16 kilometers. In total, northbound drivers had to negotiate over 50 kilometers of traffic jams. The regional road network is now, around 20.00 hours still jammed near Den Bosch.


----------



## Slagathor

H123Laci said:


> we are about to widen the M0 south to 2x3+1 in a project financed by the EU by 85%... :banana: :lol: :cheers:


Enjoy it while it lasts.


----------



## Mateusz

M0 should be finished, then it would be even better


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The A73 is a new motorway connecting Venlo to the A2 south of Roermond, it has 2 tunnels, which have been a problem child from the beginning. They are partially opened with one lane per direction and close all the time due to too high trucks being registered. Limburgian broadcasting station L1 kept count, and has published that the two tunnels have been closed *880 times* in the last 11 months. hno:  :gaah:


----------



## Robosteve

ChrisZwolle said:


> The A73 is a new motorway connecting Venlo to the A2 south of Roermond, it has 2 tunnels, which have been a problem child from the beginning. They are partially opened with one lane per direction and close all the time due to too high trucks being registered. Limburgian broadcasting station L1 kept count, and has published that the two tunnels have been closed *880 times* in the last 11 months. hno:  :gaah:


That's nearly three times a day! :crazy:


----------



## Timon91

In weekends they're always closed AFAIK. It's time for this problems to get fixed, this situation is laughable hno:


----------



## Ni3lS

I know those tunnels. They suck hard.. They are near Roermond, they were even closed in the middle of the summer vacation, just at the time that we had to pass through them..


----------



## Majestic

Are you kiddin' me? How come such a low clearance was designed for those tunnels?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Cheapskate Netherlands at it's best.


----------



## mapman:cz

ChrisZwolle said:


> ... Limburgian broadcasting station L1 kept count, and has published that the two tunnels have been closed *880 times* in the last 11 months. hno:  :gaah:


Whoa, then I should be happy I managed to drive thru them last year in november  And I was really wondering why is there only one lane opened :bash: - are they going to open it fully anytime this year? With the A52 being finished, it will be a quite good choice to travel from Ruhrgebiet to Belgium...

BTW the N280 is a quite nice expwy there, shame there are traffic lights on the junction with A73, not enough space for a complete interchange?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

mapman:cz said:


> BTW the N280 is a quite nice expwy there, shame there are traffic lights on the junction with A73, not enough space for a complete interchange?


Netherlands = stupid rules country.

Motorways are not supposed to have full interchanges with other roads. :nuts:

Really, I can't believe which moron makes up these stupid rules. 

Look at this exit near Schiphol airport: It could've been a nice trumpet or curve, but they choose a 90 degrees turn instead. :bash:


----------



## Robosteve

ChrisZwolle said:


> Look at this exit near Schiphol airport: It could've been a nice trumpet or curve, but they choose a 90 degrees turn instead. :bash:
> 
> http://i42.tinypic.com/14tlwle.jpg


:lol:


----------



## mapman:cz

ChrisZwolle said:


> Look at this exit near Schiphol airport: It could've been a nice trumpet or curve, but they choose a 90 degrees turn instead. :bash:


 Yeah, stupid, but we have such a curve as well )) But it has at least some history of project changes, so we know why:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=50.101334,14.588331&spn=0.00329,0.009656&t=k&z=17

and just close to it on a ring road a missing collector lane with a stop sign :bash:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=50.098773,14.593985&spn=0.00329,0.009656&t=k&z=17

Official explanation = Saving money


----------



## Majestic

ChrisZwolle said:


> Netherlands = stupid rules country.
> 
> Motorways are not supposed to have full interchanges with other roads. :nuts:


Why is that? The "Let's make life for motorists one hell of a nightmare" logic? :bash:

If I remember correctly there's also that rule that forbids buidling separate-grade intersections within city limits in NL, innit?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I'm not sure if there's a rule about that, but they hardly do grade-separated intersections in urban NL. Which is why even our smaller cities have too much congestion. 2 km of the N35 2x2 at grade beltway sometimes cost 20 minutes while my city has a population of only 117,000....


----------



## mapman:cz

ChrisZwolle said:


>


I've seen that before there and there is one strange thing for me, it seems like that upper aitport service road and the on-ramp to A4 southbound were originally planed to make one continuous curve.

There is an additional asphalt laid on the left side of the ramp and the airport service road also makes some strange curve before it ends as 2x2.

Maybe plans were changed somehow? Or is there going to be some change in future? I just don't believe that these projects were such stupid (at least not originally)...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ I've seen newer junctions constructed this way.

For instance the new N36 south end on the A35 motorway near Almelo.


----------



## mapman:cz

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ I've seen newer junctions constructed this way.
> 
> For instance the new N36 south end on the A35 motorway near Almelo.


Hm, I see... Somehow, the N36 looks like to be extended westbound to me, then it would make sense  But you have a point, another stupid one


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Almere:









Apeldoorn:









Epe:









Deventer:









Oldenzaal:









De Lutte:









Middenmeer:


----------



## mapman:cz

ChrisZwolle said:


> _many, many pics _


Proved 

Anyway, I still like the way how Dutch motorways look like, green good looking interchanges, very good pavement etc etc... The only bad thing overthere (that I see) is that there are too many cars and esp. trucks driving on them  Agreed? :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, that's true. The pavement is nearly always excellent. Sometimes I think that they can't find a way for real investment (widenings) so that they spend the money on the most expensive type of pavement they can find (porous asphalt concrete).


----------



## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


> nonsense half cloverleaf ICs...


It is sure they planned to continue those motorway crossing roads...

otherwise they would have been built trumpets, wouldnt they?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

H123Laci said:


> It is sure they planned to continue the motorway crossing roads...
> 
> otherwise they would have been built trumpets, wouldnt they?


No, that's the whole point...

Like I said, motorway junctions with non-motorways are not supposed to have full interchanges like trumpets or cloverleafs. There are a few exceptions though.

They do that on purpose to "make the distinction between the mainline roads and the secondary roads more clear".


----------



## H123Laci

^^ well, thats really stupid...

we have our own stupid rule:
C/D lanes have to be built independently from AADT...

so we even build expensive C/D lanes in cloverleaves and between ICs closer than 1km when the traffic volume is lower than 5.000


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another new stupid thing;

With a collector/express setup, like the reconstructed bypasses of Den Bosch and Eindhoven, the collector lane is not considered part of the motorway, and therefore gets a N-number. Hence, you have a A and N road with the same number running immediatly adjacent to eachother :nuts:


----------



## Timon91

^^Really? How stupid.

By the way, is that sharp curve near Almelo gone since the A35 ends at Wierden now, and not at Almelo?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Yeah, that's a normal diamond exit now.


----------



## Timon91

Finally, didn't several people die in that corner?


----------



## Jeroen669

H123Laci said:


> It is sure they planned to continue those motorway crossing roads...
> 
> otherwise they would have been built trumpets, wouldnt they?


As for junction schiphol: I thought it actually was a trumpet, but they rebuild it into this thing... But for the other shown examples I think there were/are plans to connect the other end to other (local) roads.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

If you want to see more of Dutch idiocy of traffic calming, check this out;

It goes as follows, it used to be a 50 km/h 1+1 lane road.
Then they lowered the speed limit to 30 km/h. 
Then they remove one lane artificially
Then they put a bus stop at that only lane that's left.
So if the bus stops, the entire street is blocked
:nuts:

sketch:


----------



## Jeroen669

Yeah, that's sick. The lack of a real busstop (with full passing possibilities) when there's plenty of room is one thing, but this...


----------



## Timon91

Do you have pics of that? I've never seen that in this country. I can't believe that they do that hno:


----------



## Majestic

Traffic calming my ass. Let's make the cars block the street and waste gas instead of free-flow. I also hate those "wedges" that block one lane alternately on tight neighbourhood streets and make you slalom through the road instead of driving straight. There's plenty of that crap in German suburbs.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I took two pictures today; 

(sunday traffic).

*location* <- Google Maps is outdated a bit here.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I took this picture on the only outbound road in Stadshagen-Zuid, home to 10,000 inhabitants. If the bus stops here, the whole road is blocked when people commute to work.


----------



## Majestic

I believe this bus stop in the middle of the street is very important to Zwolle's transportation and prosperity. Just look at those masses of passengers.


----------



## xlchris

It's the same in Hoofddorp. On one of the bussiest roads in the middle of the city there are only 2 lanes (1+1 road). 
But there are 2 busstops. So on a bussy saturday or sunday there are a lot of traffic jams in the city.
There's also one in the city center, but when it's bussy and the bus stops, it doesn't care, you have to wait anyway.


----------



## Timon91

Don't get too optimistic, EPA001. There are many other examples of this useless debating. Over here, in Abcoude, they have been debating ever since 1972 if there is going to be a third bridge crossing the Angstel (one of the rivers that pass this town)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

For crying out loud.

The new N7 near Groningen turned out to be a disaster on it's first day. The three roundabouts at the exit that handle traffic from the 4 square kilometer industrial park cannot handle the commuting traffic, and the traffic jam was 9 kilometers this morning :nuts: normally it's only 2 - 3km.


----------



## Majestic

Maybe it was just roadgeeks from all over the country looking to finally take a ride on a NEW Dutch highway :lol:

Is there any map which shows this road? GE hasn't updated it yet


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's the missing link on the right:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Work train:


----------



## kosimodo

How 2 get in 3,5 minutes from outside of the Hague to the central station of The Hague... 






Take the motorway ofcourse


----------



## ChrisZwolle

3.5 minutes is not bad, I was in The Hague a while ago and it took me 20 minutes to get to the Koningskade near the end of A12 because it was jammed - on a saturday!


----------



## kosimodo

I used to travel every day from Amsterdam to The Hague... I started working at 7 in the morning.. If i didnt do that i would have been wasting my time in a traffic jam. Before 7 it was still doable


----------



## Jeroen669

^^ When it's really bad you're already joining the traffic jam at junction Zoetermeer-Centrum...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

700 kilometers of backup at the moment.


----------



## Palance

Yup, it's snowing again here...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Holterberg Scenic Drive*

I decided to take the tourist road from Nijverdal to Holten. A drive of approximatly 10 kilometers through hilly and forested terrain and grades up to 10%, quite uncommon in this part of the Netherlands. Luckily, it was a monday morning, so the road was not crowded at all.


----------



## christos-greece

Majestic said:


> Congratulations Netherlands :banana:
> 100 million for 2 km? Are you serious? It's not even in urbanized area! Well, unless the lots were so expensive to buy out.


100 million for only 2 km? Its outstanding amound, very expensive...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I just throwed in a figure, though it wouldn't surprise me. Although it seems a little high, I don't know official figures, but in 1975 we constructed a motorway in rural area for 2 million per km (inflation adjusted). I'm sure this one was at least 5 - 10 times more expensive per km, so a figure of 40 million for these 2 km wouldn't surprise me.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N35 Highway, Nijverdal - Zwolle*

A drive across the N35 highway, a major route from Nijverdal to Zwolle. It had quiet traffic at 12.00 hrs.


----------



## gramercy

^^


cool
you almost hit a bird at 3:26 :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ I think it was a buzzard


----------



## Timon91

N35, wasn't that a "dodenweg" (death road)? The road is a typical death road: looks narrow, trees close to the road, normally quite busy. At least it has this 'wide' median at some places.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

These double solid lines create some kind of median by narrowing the existing lanes. Man I miss those 3,5 m wide lanes... Much more comfortable.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The A73 tunnels near Roermond closed for the 1000th time in a year today. 

Party?


----------



## Timon91

World record? :banana:


----------



## xlchris

What happened on the A1?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A tanker truck went through the median. It was jammed 20 kms from Amsterdam to the accident.


----------



## Timon91

Works on the bridge near Muiderberg (A1) have been delayed because of the horrible weather. I wonder if they keep a future widening of the A1 in mind when building this new bridge.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I hope so too, but they keep talking about "in the future". 

The new A1 is supposed to have 2x5 lanes + 2 tidal lanes, hence 7 lanes in the peak hour direction. That ought to cope with the dramatic growth of Almere mega-suburb. 

I wonder what they're gonna do with the A27 though, right now it's the least congested part of A27, but volumes are already in the 60,000's and growing steadily. It will hit capacity in a few years if Almere keeps growing this way.


----------



## Timon91

Yeah, "in future" usually means another 25 years or so. 

Just like the "third bridge" over here in Abcoude, which they've been discussing ever since 1972 now. This morning we got a flyer that they will start building after the summer holidays. It's about time.....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Here;?


----------



## Timon91

Yep, it would provide a new route for the traffic that wants to avoid the A2. At the moment the city centre of Abcoude gets all the traffic, but it's very narrow and therefore it can get quite dangerous. With this new route they can avoid the city centre on their way to the A2.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's a Dutch standard to put "art" on roundabouts. In the town of Lopik, they've decided a piece of "art" worth € 85.000 that's dug into the ground. Only an arrow indicates there's a piece of art under the ground. 12 art pieces of different artists have been made out of gold and put in a box and buried it under the ground.

Can you believe this shit? 85.000 euros worth of "art" buried in the ground? What an insane waste of tax money. Dammit I don't pay taxes for this nonsense.


----------



## Timon91

Well, with 16,5 million inhabitants, this piece of "art" only costs 0,5 eurocents per person 

Still it's a waste of money. From the same money 85 centimeters of A4 MD could have been built


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's not just the money, but it's the waste it represents. 6 people could have recieved a year of social benefit income for that money!


----------



## Robosteve

Timon91 said:


> Just like the "third bridge" over here in Abcoude, which they've been discussing ever since 1972 now. This morning we got a flyer that they will start building after the summer holidays. It's about time.....


You think that's bad... over here, they decided in 1952 that a Southern Freeway was necessary to cope with the traffic of the day. They still haven't (and don't intend to) build it, despite the land reservation still being completely intact (except for a short section near the CBD that was sold off in the 1970s). They haven't built an alternative route, either. The main road south of the airport is exactly the same one that existed in 1952, except for a few minor realignments and a bypass at Sutherland. It may have been widened too; I don't know how wide it was in 1952 but these days it's mostly three lanes per direction - it's just a pity they're only allowed to move at 60 km/h for most of its length. :bash:


----------



## xlchris

The snow in and around Amsterdam caused some problems.
Small accidents and huge traffic jams. Here are some bad quality pics from my phone.

We couldn't drive any faster then 10km/h;









Looking outside the rear window;









Advice was to drive 50km/h, but faster then 10/20km/h wasn't possible due to the slippery roads;









Looking through the rear window again;









At this point you could see the traffic jam;









Idem;









A bit further near Schiphol there wasn't any snow and there weren't any traffic jams;









But the view got a lot worse due to the rain;


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They expect more snow tomorrow in the northeast, but they expect the Randstad to have a "normal" rushhour. (as in; all freeways jammed as usual).


----------



## Timon91

There was a lot of snow here today. Everything melted away though, but still the roads got slippery. I really had to be careful when I walked to the train station this afternoon.


----------



## Palance

Time for some pictures (taken this morning) on my way from the eastern part of the Netherlands to the western part.

1. N346-N314-N348: Lochem-Zutphen-Ellecom (no motorway)
2. A348 Ellecom-Arnhem (motorway)
3. N325 Arnhem (no motorway)
4. A325-A15 Arnhem-Tiel-Gorinchem-Rotterdam (motorway - my battry quit just before I entered the Noordtunnel just east of Rotterdam).

Global Route


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Thought LA was bad? Think again! 960 km/ 600 miles of backup!

This shows the Randstad.


----------



## kosimodo

Most of it is only 'Matige' (=moderate) delay Chris


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Yeah speeds below 50 km/h. Do you know what kind of delay you have driving 50 km/h or less for 20 kilometers in a row?


----------



## Robosteve

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ Yeah speeds below 50 km/h. Do you know what kind of delay you have driving 50 km/h or less for 20 kilometers in a row?


Sounds like a typical Sydney commute to me.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A truck went through the median at the interchange of A20 and A16 in Rotterdam. The whole region is gridlocked now.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Okay, I made a bigger trip today. I'm not able to do that often because I'm broke, but I went with a friend of mine.  He took pics and drove, and I made videos.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A28 Zwolle - Groningen*

Let's start with the A28 motorway, a major (third longest) motorway from Utrecht to Groningen. This serie covers the northern 100 kilometer of it, from the city of Zwolle to Groningen. Along the motorway, there are roadworks near Meppel, the rebuilding and completion of interchange Lankhorst, adding new connectors that weren't there before. (Meppel - Hoogeveen vv)

click on the link in the title for the pictures on Flickr.

route:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N7 Expressway, Groningen*

This is the N7, one of the few expressways existing in the Netherlands. Except for intersection Julianaplein, this road is recently upgraded to an expressway with limited access along the eastern side of Groningen. The 2x2 lanes however, are often congested due to Groningen being a city of 180,000 and is a major jobcenter for Northeastern Netherlands.

click on the link in the title for the pics.

route (not correct, new part is not visible on Gmaps yet)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N7/A7 Groningen - Drachten*

This one continues from the previous serie, and heads westbound from Foxhol town to Drachten, through the city of Groningen, where the N7 is reconstructed on the west side too, two new exits are build here.

Click on the link in the title to view the pictures on Flickr.

route:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A31/N31 Drachten - Leeuwarden - Harlingen - Zurich*

This journey goes via the N31/A31 highway, which is partially a motorway, partially a limited access expressway, and partially an at-grade, one-lane road. The N31 part from Drachten to Leeuwarden has recently been upgraded to 2x2 lanes with controlled access, and the bypass of Leeuwarden has yet to be build. The A31 runs from Leeuwarden to Harlingen and is an existing 2x2 motorway. The route through the Harlingen town is a one lane highway, and the next part until interchange Zurich is a recently opened 2x2 expressway.

click on the link in the title to view the pictures on Flickr.

route:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A7/N7 Zurich - Sneek-Oost*

This one goes from the interchange Zurich to the city of Sneek, a small city where a new aqueduct has recently been constructed. The N7 through the city is being upgraded to a limited-access expressway.

click on the link in the title to view the pictures on Flickr.

route:


----------



## Timon91

Nice pics, Chris! By the way, another proof that we Dutch have to look for better names for our rest areas. "Dikke Linde" along the A7 is quite weird. It means "fat tilia", but "Linde" is also a girls' name in Dutch 

-edit- This could have been in Estonia


----------



## Palance

In my region it was quite foggy this morning:


----------



## Robosteve

Thanks for my new wallpaper, Chris!

http://i39.tinypic.com/de5m5y.png :cheers:


----------



## RipleyLV

Nice pictures Chris! 

Groni*a*gen:


----------



## Timon91

@Robosteve: I didn't know they used the Kelvin scale in Australia 

@RipleyLV: It looks like this sign is just new, and they made fun with it already


----------



## Robosteve

Timon91 said:


> @Robosteve: I didn't know they used the Kelvin scale in Australia


They don't. I just prefer it to Celsius because its zero point is not arbitrary.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Robosteve said:


> Thanks for my new wallpaper, Chris!
> 
> http://i39.tinypic.com/de5m5y.png :cheers:


Larger one:
http://i40.tinypic.com/kdwroi.jpg





Timon91 said:


> @RipleyLV: It looks like this sign is just new, and they made fun with it already


This sign is 33 years old, placed when the motorway was opened on March 1st, 1976. You can see it because the N48 shield is very much faded, nearly white instead of yellow.


----------



## Timon91

Really? It has the concept of a new sign.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Timon91 said:


> Really? It has the concept of a new sign.


That's true, it was one of the oddities on our motorway network. They added similar signs to interchange Holsloot (A37/N34) before they start rolling out the new signage recently.


----------



## Timon91

I see. I never come in that area so I didn't know this. That's why I thought it was a new sign


----------



## xlchris

Van Brienenoordbridge Rotterdam


JC_Zwolle said:


>


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Can you believe that the busiest Dutch motorway (AADT: 250,000) actually has a drawbridge?


----------



## xlchris

It's very stupid :nuts:. They need to built a new bridge next to it, make it higher so that boats can pass easily.


----------



## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


> However, a recent published study by the "Central Planning Bureau" showed 90% of the trips taken with a car takes twice the time with public transportation.


I live in a small village (2000 residents) in the Budapest agglomeration.

sometimes a return trip to the local administrative center town takes 10 times the time with PT... (7hours instead of 40minutes) :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Yeah, but I don't think that is representative for the entire region, or whole day...


----------



## H123Laci

msz2 said:


> ^^^ It's good that politicians in Poland are very keen on of the new roads.


in hungary too...
the bad news: they are not keen on old roads, and they are keen only on new motorways.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some pictures of Zwolle:

1. Beltway N337









2. Approaching the most important motorway exit in Zwolle (exit Zwolle-South)









3. It's a traffic light controlled roundabout with 4 lanes (3 on the roundabout itself)









4. Highest office tower in Zwolle: 95m









5. Entering the motorway in the northbound direction.









6. Entrance Zwolle-Zuid merges onto the exit Zwolle-Centrum









7. New office complex along the motorway.









8. Next exit is Zwolle-Noord, the entrance of Zwolle-Centrum continues in the next exit, de facto creating 4 lanes during rushhour. That lane on the left looks like a shoulder, but is an additional lane during rushhour.









9. Notice the N35 number is missing on the right sign.









10. Next exit is called Ommen, but is situated inside the city of Zwolle. This onramp also continues in a 2 long weaving lane into the offramp of exit Ommen. 

Also, notice the distance to Groningen decreased 4 km while we are in fact less than 1 kilometer further than the previous sign.









11. From here, the A28 continues as an overloaded 2x2 motorway to the north. Widening to 2x3 lanes is forecast to begin in 1,5 years.


----------



## Robosteve

Great pictures, Chris, thanks! I'm really beginning to like the Dutch signage. That spitstrook looks very narrow, though.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Robosteve said:


> That spitstrook looks very narrow, though.


Yeah it sucks bigtime. When traffic flows, nearly nobody is on it, except when there is stationary traffic...


----------



## Nexis

How can that be so narrow, wouldn't that cause an accident or fender bender @ low speeds? Looks like an overflow Bike lane , to releave bike path traffic snarls!:lol:


----------



## Timon91

Chris, what part of the A28 will be 2×3? Just from Zwolle to interchange Lankhorst?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interchange Hattemerbroek - Zwolle-Zuid => 2x4 
Zwolle-Zuid - Ommen => current configuration
Ommen - Interchange Lankhorst => 2x3


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> 1. Beltway N337
> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3658/3334879133_482ff75c2c_o.jpg


Nice pics. Are tractors allowed on the Zwolle beltway?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They are on this small section. This photo covers the entire section where tractors are allowed, to get from downtown in the direction of Wezep/Hattem, since the road to the left is the only crossing of the river IJssel in the region which tractors are allowed to use.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Typical Randstadmania again this afternoon:









longest traffic jam is 49 kilometers at the moment, from Amsterdam to Beesd on A2.


----------



## Timon91

The city center of Abcoude is jammed because of rat running hno:


----------



## Majestic

^^ Because of what?

Guess it doesn't take a lot to gridlock Abcoude though, just block that one and only street


----------



## Timon91

Shut up 

Rat running = traffic that wants to avoid the congested A2


----------



## Majestic

I don't get it, how do those drivers want to avoid A2 in the first place? There's no alternative route unless they want to drive this narrow, windy road towards this village with world-famous gas station


----------



## PLH

And that's the road they're driving on


----------



## Timon91

Exactly. Don't ask me why, but those people do it 

Anyway, the world famous gas station is not in Abcoude, it's in Loenersloot, a city just a few kilometers south


----------



## PLH

Why? It's the best way to avoid traffic, unless all decide to do so


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There is no such thing as avoiding a traffic jam via another road in the Netherlands.


----------



## Palance

The A38 at Ridderkerk interchange. The number does not appear on signs (except rarely on temporary yellow signs, like on Chris' photo), and on the little signposts. And of course on my site 





































Location


----------



## SeanT

What is the widest motorway ( How many lanes?) in the netherlands?


----------



## SeanT

like 10 lanes?:banana:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Like 16 lanes. (A16 Ridderkerk).
Most number of adjacent through lanes are on the A4 near Schiphol, 2x5. The currently under reconstruction A2 will be widened to 2x5 between Amsterdam and Utrecht, with a small section of 2x6 lanes between Abcoude and interchange Holendrecht (A9).


----------



## SeanT

ChrisZwolle said:


> Like 16 lanes. (A16 Ridderkerk).
> Most number of adjacent through lanes are on the A4 near Schiphol, 2x5. The currently under reconstruction A2 will be widened to 2x5 between Amsterdam and Utrecht, with a small section of 2x6 lanes between Abcoude and interchange Holendrecht (A9).


 I´m lovin´it!!!:banana::banana::banana:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some pictures I took today 

Dutch subtitles, but you'll get the gist.

Taken on the A28 motorway near Nijkerk from the overpasses, and other locations between Nijkerk and Zwolle for the rest of the pics.

1. We beginnen met de Arlersteeg.









2. Foto's genomen rond kwart voor twee.









3. Tussen de afslagen Nijkerk en Strand Nulde.









4. Redelijk wat vrachtverkeer hier.









5. Vanaf hier is het de Watergoorweg.









6. Afslag Nijkerk.









7. Kijkend richting Amersfoort.









8. In de verte de woontorens van Vathorst.









*BONUS*

9. Vordering viaduct van de Hanzelijn bij KP Hattemerbroek.









10. Van dichterbij.









11. You're in the army now.









12. Het was een lange kolonne, maar ze reden volgens mij niet in kolonne.









13. De ANWB Wegenwacht in actie.


----------



## Timon91

Nice pics, Chris. I like the fact that the widest adjacent motorway in the Netherlands will be near Abcoude 

By the way, they are progressing way faster then expected. First it was expected to be finished in the beginning of 2012, now they moved the date to the end of 2010 :banana:


----------



## aswnl

Timon91 said:


> Nice pics, Chris. I like the fact that the widest adjacent motorway in the Netherlands will be near Abcoude


No, it won't be the widest. The A16 in Ridderkerk interchange is the widest: 4+3+3+4.
Also in a few years the A4 between Den Ruygen Hoek service area and De Hoek junction will be 2+5+5+2, sliplanes excluded...


----------



## Verso

Some wide motorway planned near Timon's little village.


----------



## Timon91

Let's make Abcoude the new motorway capital of the Netherlands


----------



## SeanT

aswnl said:


> No, it won't be the widest. The A16 in Ridderkerk interchange is the widest: 4+3+3+4.
> Also in a few years the A4 between Den Ruygen Hoek service area and De Hoek junction will be 2+5+5+2, sliplanes excluded...


:nuts:2+5+5+2:nuts:....breathtaking


----------



## Slagathor

SeanT said:


> :nuts:2+5+5+2:nuts:....breathtaking


It's going on Detroit over there. I don't like it much.


----------



## Palance

This morning, I have made some (well, actually more than 300) photo's on a drive through Rotterdam. Since Rotterdam is devided by the river Maas, I have split this series up into 2 pieces:

1. Rotterdam-North:









Album.

2. Rotterdam-South:









Album.


----------



## Qaabus

Anybody know what the new A50 bridge over the Waal is going to look like? An identical bridge next to the current one? I read in the paper today it's planned to open in 2014 as part of the expansion of the A50 between Arnhem and Nijmegen.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Slagathor said:


> It's going on Detroit over there. I don't like it much.


I don't think you can compare a rural area with polders to the vast urban environment of Detroit


----------



## Slagathor

That just makes it more ridiculous, some giant freeway in the middle of freaking nowhere


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, it's not really in the middle of nowhere, approximatly 2 - 3 million people live within 25 kilometers of it, one of the worlds largest airports is served by A4, and it's the only connection between Amsterdam and The Hague/Rotterdam. And last but not least, there are no real alternatives to this freeway.


----------



## H123Laci

SeanT said:


> :nuts:2+5+5+2:nuts:....breathtaking


and we want to build and alternative route for the 2x3 M0 south of budapest(currently 2x2, widening starts this year)... :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

From Palance's pics:

This sign is just digusting, flimsy arrows and an unreadable font. This "redesign" in Dutch signage is really a leap backwards compared to what we had...









gee!

The subway sign reminds me of McDonalds 









WTF is the local tourist office doing on overhead signage?!









I can imagine someone gets tricked by these signs, the shape of them makes it look like the destinations are left, but they are in fact through.









Nice tunnels, I hope more Dutch cities will build them to ease traffic and reduce pollution from idling cars.









Oh this is nice, it's new isn't it?









Oh man.. this is so wrong. Motorroads should have solid side markings...









I wonder how much people will stick to the 70-limit on such roads... From my experience in Zwolle, they usually drive 90 or 100 on such 2x2 roads.









GATSO, NL's # 1 export product 









Remember my earlier comment about these signs. This is old skool, much better than that new-fangled junk.









Any reason why there are temporary signs here? It looks pretty permanent.









Well, that was the first batch


----------



## Timon91

AFAIK the only 2×2 road without level crossings where people stick to the speed limit of 70 km/h is the Gooiseweg in Amsterdam, which is in such a bad state that driving faster is a very bad idea hno:


----------



## xlchris

Traffic jam in Rotterdam 


Oh?! said:


>


And an exact 1 year old picture of the A20 in Rotterdam;


LAYZIEDOGG said:


>


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ That last picture is taken on the A13 actually. (it flows into A20).


----------



## xlchris

^Sorry  I saw A20 on the sign so I thought that was right.


----------



## Verso

Those new arrows indeed look a bit too "weak", I don't mind the font though. Is there a general speed limit on Dutch motorroads, or there has to be the speed-limit sign to determine it? What's the usual speed limit on them?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

motorroads are 100 unless otherwise posted. Most people still drive 80 like they drive 80 in Germany hno:


----------



## Verso

I think in Germany they drive 180.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Not on regular roads... It's really a disease, many Dutchmen don't know 100 is allowed on roads outside city limits. Luckily the problem mostly disappears after getting 20+ km from the border.


----------



## Timon91

^^Read: BAB 31


----------



## Verso

The other day I stumbled upon a Dutchman, who drove 65 km/h on a motorway. :bash:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ He was probably mistaken to be in Bulgaria, and gawking at Slovenias top notch motorways


----------



## Verso

Radi will shoot you.


----------



## Slagathor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Not on regular roads... It's really a disease, many Dutchmen don't know 100 is allowed on roads outside city limits. Luckily the problem mostly disappears after getting 20+ km from the border.


Not so much a problem in Zeeland. Since we have only 2 freeways, many other roads are used as such instead with people aiming for 100kph wherever they can.

Of course I should mention we have the highest traffic death toll per capita in the country so all is not well...


----------



## madao

ChrisZwolle said:


> [/img]
> 
> I wonder how much people will stick to the 70-limit on such roads... From my experience in Zwolle, they usually drive 90 or 100 on such 2x2 roads.


i always drive 90 on that road it is difficult to stay on 70

but its a very dangerous road there were some accidents there because of the soft berm


----------



## Timon91

Slagathor said:


> Of course I should mention we have the highest traffic death toll per capita in the country so all is not well...


Motorways are generally much safer than two laned roads. Since you have many two laned main roads in Zeeland it's indeed not much of a surprise.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Rotterdam skyline off A16.


----------



## xlchris

^PS: That picture is probably a few months/a year old.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Hengelo - Amersfoort*

(click on title to show the 126 pictures on my Flickr account)

route: 95 kilometers









Preview pics:


----------



## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


>


What questions? Some kind of traffic information centre?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Any motorway-related questions... It's a toll-free number, so if you want to try...


----------



## Verso

Are there any Dutch motorways we haven't seen yet?


----------



## PLH

The unbuild ones


----------



## Verso

Smartass.


----------



## Timon91

I'd love to see the A4 Midden-Delfland. Unfortunately it doesn't exist yet 

I did the same route by train today, by the way :lol:


----------



## Palance

I have a lot of pictures of that missing part of the A4. I will post them tonight or tomorrow.


----------



## panda80

Timon91 said:


> I'd love to see the A4 Midden-Delfland. Unfortunately it doesn't exist yet
> 
> I did the same route by train today, by the way :lol:


will it be ever build?


----------



## Palance

That is a big question here


----------



## keber

ChrisZwolle said:


> *http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/sets/72157615537704771/*


Oh, a hill. :lol:

Do you have any more "hilly" motorways? (I admit I didn't look whole 3 threads)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, some motorways have a gentle slope like here and on A50 Apeldoorn - Arnhem, but the most hilly motorways are in southern Limburg province, A2 has a rather steep descent into Maastricht from Geleen, and the A79 even has a "talbrücke". A76 has climbing lanes near Heerlen.


----------



## Timon91

AFAIK there is some kind of a hill next to the A12 motorway near Bennekom, for the rest I don't know because I don't go there very often.


----------



## Palance

As promised, some pictures of this missing link. 
I have 2 albums of the A4 Delft-Schiedam.

Album 1: Made 4 April 2006, at Kleinpolderplein, between Vlaardingen and Schiedam and some pictures in the ares "Midden-Delfland" close to the planned part of the A4.

Album 2: A more recent series (26 September 2008) made at the end of the A4 at Delft.

The end of the road...


----------



## Timon91

Thanks for the pics, Palance. This is probably the best (worst) example of Dutch nimbyism/environmentalism hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, they have a point, since the "Midden Delfland" area is a valuable natural area, although I wouldn't call it exactly a National Park style area. It's mostly because of politics that this road hasn't been around for over 40 years. 

However, the crazy thing is the entire area around it has been build by now, the massive greenhouses to the west, Rotterdam to the south, small towns that growed together to the east, and Delft/The Hague to the north. But when a road needs to be build space is a problem all the sudden... hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N36 Witte Paal - Almelo*

Click on the title for all 57 photos.

A journey along the entire N36 motorroad (mostly grade-separated) in eastern Netherlands, from the N34 highway between Ommen and Hardenberg to the A35 motorway near Almelo. Distance: 30km.

route:









preview:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N312 Lochem - Winterswijk*

Click on the title for all 50 pics.

A drive on the N312 highway, it's a relatively minor highway, despite having an N3xx number. It connects Lochem, Lichtenvoorde and Winterswijk, which are some of the larger population centers in Eastern Gelderland province. The number N312 is signed on only two signs. 

route:









Preview:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N332 Raalte - Lochem*

Click on the title for all 49 pics.

A drive on the N332 highway, from Raalte to Lochem, a distance of 28 kilometers. The N332 is one of the highways in this area of the Netherlands that has banned overtaking for many straight stretches. The road is important for people from Zwolle to Hengelo or further, since you can bypass the Nijverdal area.

route:









preview:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N347 Haaksbergen - Ommen*

Click on the title for all 90 pics. 

A drive on the N347 highway, from Haaksbergen to Ommen, a distance of 55 kilometers. The road serves several larger towns, such as Haaksbergen, Goor, Rijssen and Nijverdal. Especially in the Nijverdal/Hellendoorn area, much of it runs through city limits and can be congested around the N35 intersection. 

route:









preview:









slowpoke doing 72 km/h and no overtaking here hno:


----------



## Timon91

Those "R" routes, are those touristic routes? I never see them around here.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Recreational routes... Some places have them.

* Ommen (r101-r104)
* Schouwen-Duiveland (r101-r112)
* Spaarnwoude (r101-r106)
* Nieuwvliet (r101-r105)
* IJmuiden (r101-r103)

The R-routes are the only kind where the numbers can be reused in other parts of the country.


----------



## PLH

What's the point of this? Traffic weaving reduction mania?


----------



## Jeroen669

^^ Overtaking becomes more and more forbidden on 2-lane roads here. This is one of the measures to enforce it. It can be worse though, those bumps between the stripes are often a lot bigger. On more and more places they even place a barrier or a median... hno:


----------



## SeanT

I know about the overtaking, it is dangerous, but on those pictures you can see 100s of meters ahead, so is it really necessery?
or just better be safe then sorry!


----------



## Timon91

Well, it probably reduced the amount of overtaking accidents, but it certainly increased the amount of frustrated drivers like Chris, who was stuck behind a slowpoke in a no-overtaking zone


----------



## ChrisZwolle

With all these senseless solid center lines, you can't make up the really dangerous points anymore. The Dutch driver is not to think, that's done for him hno:


----------



## Slagathor

Timon91 said:


> How is the Westerscheldetunnel doing? Still making huge losses?


It's been running steady profits. The Province of Zeeland bought all the shares recently - the profits of the Westerscheldetunnel will now be used to pay for the tunnel under Gent-Terneuzen channel.


----------



## Timon91

I see. I guess that they don't write about it in the paper if things are running well. The last time I read anything about it, it was still losing a lot of money. Good to hear that it makes some profit now.


----------



## Daniel541

^^ Of course they won't write that there making a steady profit, otherwise people will demand lower prices I guess. :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Progress on the A2 near Eindhoven:


----------



## Mateusz

Motorway A76 was really busy, even when I was there at night... is it always llike that ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, it's quite a densely populated area over there, half of southern Limburg is urbanized, and so is the area across the German border (Aachen), plus the A76 is a major route from Brussels and Antwerp to Germany.


----------



## Timon91

The A76 and the A67 are the only motorways that go from Belgium through the Netherlands to Germany, so both are quite busy. I've driven on the A67 twice, and both times I saw trucks from over ten countries.


----------



## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


> Design for the N62 tunnel under the Gent-Terneuzen canal.


why a tunnel when there is a bridge already?
or will that bridge be demolished?


----------



## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


> Progress on the A2 near Eindhoven:


wow. impressive works... :cheers:


----------



## Timon91

AFAIK the N62 is 2×2 (expy), so they have to build sth new anyway.

Yesterday there were long jams on the A1, because the bridge crossing the Amsterdam-Rhine channel near Muiden is currently being reconstructed, so they closed half of the lanes yesterday, causing long jams (up to 11 km) - on a sunday hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

H123Laci said:


> why a tunnel when there is a bridge already?
> or will that bridge be demolished?


Because the bridge opens often 

Gent - Terneuzen is a rather important shipping channel, Gent has a large port all the way to the Dutch border.


----------



## ElviS77

Timon91 said:


> AFAIK the N62 is 2×2 (expy), so they have to build sth new anyway.


The bridge is single track, one lane in each direction?


----------



## Slagathor

Timon91 said:


> AFAIK the N62 is 2×2 (expy), so they have to build sth new anyway.





ElviS77 said:


> The bridge is single track, one lane in each direction?


The N62 is currently mostly 1X1 (on both sides of the Westerschelde). On the North side of the river, it's currently being upgraded to 2x2 and the South side will swiftly follow. The bridge has to go for two reasons:

1) It's currently 1x1 which is insufficient.
2) The infrastructure around the bridge (with intersections and roundabouts) can't handle the ever increasing flow of traffic and causes jams.

Furthermore, the N57 is being upgraded as well (increased to 2x2 on important sections while elsewhere, level intersections are replaced by viaducts etc). The N57 also leads to the Westerscheldetunnel and aforementioned bridge.

It's a serious bottleneck in the North-West traffic routes of Zeeland and it will only get worse.


----------



## xlchris




----------



## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


> Because the bridge opens often


oops. I havent seen that...

but in this case there is another question:

why dont they build a higher bridge?
(btw: how high?)

tunnels are justified in special circumstances:

- the navy doesnt want a bridge above its shipping route... (tunnel cost is not a question)

- span should be very large to reduce ship collision probability in the stormy open sea

- in heavily built downtowns the area (and demolition) cost would be too high for the long ramps of a high bridge...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Shipping up to 12,5 m is allowed. Since this area is completely flat, a 15m viaduct would make quite an impact on the horizon. That's not necessarily a bad thing though. But Flandres want the canal to accomodate bigger ships, and might even want to pay for the extra costs of the tunnel.


----------



## CborG

This is how the N62 probably will look like when completed:


----------



## Timon91

That is near Maarssen, btw. Traffic moved to the new side some time ago. It seems like they reconstructed the old side already


----------



## Jeroen669

Verso said:


> You always say Dutch motorways have no decent alternative roads, therefore I always thought other roads were local and narrow, you know, almost like Africa.  j/k But I guess you meant they aren't wide, with a high speed limit... Still, they look ok to me... at least pavement is usually excellent.


Local roads mostly don't have quality problems, but capacity problems. Even lots of local roads aren't having enough capacity to handle normal traffic. Incidents always have dramatic results: 10% of extra traffic can already mean 100% of extra congestion.

Let's take the worst case scenario: due to a (fictional) big accident the A13 between Delft and Rotterdam is closed in both directions, on a mondaymorning at 8:00 am. 

Alternatives? 

- At the local polder roads are blockers, which won't allow more than a few hundred vehicles per hour
- Via Westland region? Already overcrowded
- N470/N471? Can't handle the traffic neither since there's only one lane per direction
- A12/N209? Even worse since there's a very busy railway intersection near the A12
- A12/N219/A20? Same as above. Note that the A12 also only has 2 lanes per direction (so it won't handle the traffic either)
- A12/N456/A20? Same problems (also a railway intersection). But since there are no direct ramps to get on the A20 you don't have much of a choise here
- for longer-distance traffic: taking other motorways like A2/A27/A15. But those are overcrowded too

So how will you keep those extra >150.000 vehicles moving? Answer: you don't. The randstad will be grid-locked and jams will appear in about half the country.

I hope you'll get the point, here. The flexibilty of our road system is close to zero...


----------



## Timon91

^^That's why the A4 Midden-Delfland is so desperately needed. In case of a big jam or a motorway closure they recently installed those U-routes, but in case of the A13 closure they will be completely congested hno:


----------



## Ni3lS

ChrisZwolle said:


> A2 is gonna be wiiiide:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7 matrix signs...


That looks awesome.

Already saw the pics of the new Eindhoven randweg? I'll post them here.


----------



## Ni3lS

Master Roshi said:


> Ff wat plaatjes gevonden via ED:
> 
> 1. Impressie de Hogt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en de volgende foto's zijn van deze site:
> 
> 2. KP Leenderheide en Skyline
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. KP De Hogt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Batadorp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Nogmaals KP de Hogt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6. KP de Hogt en aansluiting High Tech Campus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7. KP Leenderheide
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8. En KP Batadorp nog maar een keertje


:cheers:


----------



## Timon91

^^click


----------



## ChrisZwolle

click!

edit: damn, just too late


----------



## Timon91

:rofl: Rum-cola makes you slow, Chris


----------



## Ni3lS

Oh, I'm sorry. Next time I'll look some pages back before I post something like this


----------



## Verso

Jeroen669 said:


> Local roads mostly don't have quality problems, but capacity problems. Even lots of local roads aren't having enough capacity to handle normal traffic. Incidents always have dramatic results: 10% of extra traffic can already mean 100% of extra congestion.
> 
> Let's take the worst case scenario: due to a (fictional) big accident the A13 between Delft and Rotterdam is closed in both directions, on a mondaymorning at 8:00 am.
> 
> Alternatives?
> 
> - At the local polder roads are blockers, which won't allow more than a few hundred vehicles per hour
> - Via Westland region? Already overcrowded
> - N470/N471? Can't handle the traffic neither since there's only one lane per direction
> - A12/N209? Even worse since there's a very busy railway intersection near the A12
> - A12/N219/A20? Same as above. Note that the A12 also only has 2 lanes per direction (so it won't handle the traffic either)
> - A12/N456/A20? Same problems (also a railway intersection). But since there are no direct ramps to get on the A20 you don't have much of a choise here
> - for longer-distance traffic: taking other motorways like A2/A27/A15. But those are overcrowded too
> 
> So how will you keep those extra >150.000 vehicles moving? Answer: you don't. The randstad will be grid-locked and jams will appear in about half the country.
> 
> I hope you'll get the point, here. The flexibilty of our road system is close to zero...


I'm sure our ordinary roads are even worse (at least as far as pavement is concerned), but at least we don't have so much traffic.


----------



## CborG

A few pics of the A2 widening between Utrecht and Den Bosch:

Looking north towards JC Everdingen. Northbound traffic is already moved to the right. Traffic on the left is still using the old carriageway.









Same location but looking south:


















Further south, near Culemborg:


----------



## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yes certainly, the Dutch tend to complain a lot, it's in their nature I guess.


You cant beat a hungarian in whining... :lol:


----------



## H123Laci

CborG said:


> A few pics of the A2 widening between Utrecht and Den Bosch:


quite an enormous job...
(and impressive - large span - gantries...  )


----------



## Timon91

At the moment the A2 from Amsterdam to Eindhoven is seeing reconstruction and widening. But how about further south? I thought that there were some plans for that as well, like a tunnel under Maastricht.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There is an Afghanistan-summit tomorrow in The Hague. They advise not to travel during rushhour in the Randstad because left lanes will be closed for diplomatic convoys from the airports.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Where signage and skyscrapers come together...


----------



## Daniel541

Here's a movie that shows how the Dutch drive once they are in Germany :nuts:

--> http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/454841/6388564d/holl_ndische_vollidiot_an_der_autobahn.html


----------



## PLH

Reminds me of Gumball


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The "3" in M3 is probably the level of his IQ.


----------



## Timon91

Indeed a Vollidiot hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Driving through residential neighborhoods of my city:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Majestic said:


> Do you have any pics of how this road block looks like?


Here's one near Zwolle;

The sole purpose of this thing is to let motorists wait for 2 minutes, then they can pass in a short timeframe.


----------



## SeanT

....and what is the public opinon of these wonders???:lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Let's just say they get vandalized from time to time.


----------



## Timon91

What is the purpose of that road block over there? Stop rat running as well?


----------



## snowman159

Does that really make any sense? Why don't they just ban traffic altogether? 

If the road is important enough not to be closed down completely, the road block seems like a bad idea as well.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This minor road connects the outlying rural areas of "Mastenbroek" (dozens of farms) with the new neighborhood of Stadshagen. It's not a rat running route, since there is no congestion at all on the adjacent N331 highway. However, it's the fastest route from the polders to the shopping centre of Stadshagen, so farmers wanting to get groceries either have to make a huge detour or wait here.

location of the blocker.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A28 motorway*

Pics from viaducts.

first batch is from near Harderwijk.




































Second batch is from around Nunspeet.


----------



## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


> Let's just say they get vandalized from time to time.


I just wanted to ask: dont they vandalize it? :lol:


----------



## Timon91

About the road block: just watch this video: http://dewerelddraaitdoor.vara.nl/V...cat]=238&kalender=1238623140&cHash=5817438546, from 3:30 to 4:06


----------



## Majestic

It says Abcoude 57 at 3:58. Is that the number of collisions? Looks like accident rate is being boosted by this genuine invention


----------



## Timon91

Yes, I think that that's right, because two months before this guy blew it up the local newspaper reported about the 50th collision. A friend and I wanted to bring the 50th victim a flower bouquet and a bottle of wine to celebrate this special jubilee


----------



## Glodenox

I'm really starting to feel sorry for you guys  While here in Belgium the road quality sucks on several road stretches, we at least aren't pestered to death by our goverment and its regulations. We at least get to think ourselves (though that results in accidents if people just can't make proper judgement themselves).

Anyway, never been a huge fan of those obstacles but I can see their use. I can't understand people crash onto them when they see such a big red light. They must really be blind or heavily distracted.

Greetings,
Glodenox


----------



## Des

Timon91 said:


> About the road block: just watch this video: http://dewerelddraaitdoor.vara.nl/V...cat]=238&kalender=1238623140&cHash=5817438546, from 3:30 to 4:06


Man, those things really get on my nerves. Thank god there are none in my direct area but if I would have to wait every day for a useless time wasting thing like this you can bet on it I would find a way to destroy it as well :bash:

Just look at the cue behind the pole: :bash:


----------



## snowman159

^^

Wow, the Dutch must be extremely patient drivers. :lol:

Like I said before, if the road is so important that people are actually willing to sit through this ordeal, the road block may not be the best solution.


That being said, good luck to the "Résistance".


----------



## Timon91

Des said:


> Just look at the cue behind the pole: :bash:


When this thing was installed here, many people didn't know about it so they still took this route instead of the A2. This meant that the jam has been longer then 3 km a few times hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This 2x2 road passes 70 meters from my window;

1. 









2.









3. 









4. 









5.









6.









7.









8.









9.


----------



## Slagathor

^^ I like that last picture. It's nice and green by Dutch standards.

Usually when I'm driving round the country the view consists of industrial areas...


----------



## Timon91

The closest dual carriageway to my house is jammed now (only 2 kms though, some lorry had problems)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Timon91 said:


> The closest dual carriageway to my house is jammed now (only 2 kms though, some lorry had problems)


Oh?


> A2 Amsterdam → 's-Hertogenbosch
> Langzaam rijdend verkeer tussen Ouderkerk aan de Amstel en Culemborg 48km


----------



## Timon91

That was at 4:07 PM, Chris. A lot can happen in two hours


----------



## ChrisZwolle

_"A2 Amsterdam → 's-Hertogenbosch
Langzaam rijdend tot stilstaand verkeer tussen Ouderkerk aan de Amstel en Beesd 47km"_

You gotta love the A2 lately. Almost daily a 40 - 50 km queue...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A1 motorway, east of Deventer, OV traffic jam. Photos taken around 11.30 am and the traffic jam was 13 kilometers long.


----------



## mati162c

why they won't widen it to 2x3, as i can see it is enough place in the middle so it should be quite easy and cheap?!


----------



## Timon91

ChrisZwolle said:


> _"A2 Amsterdam → 's-Hertogenbosch
> Langzaam rijdend tot stilstaand verkeer tussen Ouderkerk aan de Amstel en Beesd 47km"_
> 
> You gotta love the A2 lately. Almost daily a 40 - 50 km queue...


hno:

Luckily the widening of the A2 is ahead of schedule :banana:

I heard about the A1 jam on the radio. They said some accident had happened on the IJssel bridge.


----------



## pijanec

Are big trucks allowed to stop on the overtaking lane if there is a traffic jam?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Shoulder running on the A1 near Amersfoort:


----------



## Verso

So when hard shoulders are open for traffic, the speed limit is 80 km/h on all lanes?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes. It's not respected at all though. The left and center lane do not flow slower than 110.


----------



## Timon91

When it was opened for one of the first times, it confused most drivers and everyone stayed on the two main lanes doing 120. Then one car started driving on the shoulder, and the rest followed him. 

For Chris: als er één schaap over de dam is, volgen er meer  (Dutch expression - when one sheep crossed the dam, the rest will follow)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's basically a truck lane, you don't see many cars there.


----------



## Timon91

That's quite logic. On this "Warschauer Allee" the trucks usually fill up most of the rightmost lane, whatever lane that may be (shoulder or a normal lane)


----------



## pijanec

80 km/h speed limit is too low for such conditions. When hard shoulder is used it is basically a normal motorway without hard shoulder.


----------



## Daniel541

*A10* (South) Amsterdam

1|








2| ING HQ








3|Zuidas








4|








5|








6|









Photos taken on the 3th of April, by me


----------



## Verso

Daniel541 said:


> 2| ING HQ


Wow, cool building! It looks like a big high-speed train, or like a big cash register.


----------



## Timon91

We usually call it a shoe


----------



## xlchris

Tollbooths Westerscheldetunnel


Tri Rhena said:


>


----------



## Mateusz

There is only the one solution

Wide these damn autosnelwegen !


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Easter is over, and everybody's heading back for work; 1085 kilometers of traffic jam.


----------



## city_thing

It always seems to be Rotterdam suffering the worst jams in those maps you post ChrisZwolle. Is there a reason for that? Or am I just remembering things incorrectly...?


----------



## Timon91

This plan would solve many problems, but it's indeed a bit excessive hno:

Still, as Chris said, with our new minister we're at least moving forward, instead of doing nothing.


----------



## Slagathor

You know what we should do: think outside the box where the A3 situation is concerned.

People are very protective of the environment in this country, to a point where it's borderline extreme. Since they have the law at their side, you should meet them halfway.


Declare a 'Green Heart' - its borders are a new highway; the Randstad Inner Ring. Everywhere inside that highway is off-limits for ugly stuff such as industrial areas. We stimulate the activities of green and cultural activity within this ring (such as tulip bulb fields, museum windmill parks etc.)
Within the new Green Heart - you don't build highways, but expressway boulevards. A sort of green alternative. They can be 2x2 without emergency lanes and without barriers. The two halves would be far apart (brede middenberm) and there would be trees lining them etc. You could even use green asphalt and ban trucks or something.
Outside the Green Heart - you start construction traditional highways like there's no tomorrow. The A4 MD and the A4 Zuid, new connections around Utrecht and between Rotterdam-Utrecht and Breda. Go mental, and make them wide.

Legend
*Red & dark red* - the new Randstad Inner Ring (the whole area on the inside of it is the new Green Heart).
*Green* - the new expressway boulevards (2x2, scenic routes).
*Orange* - new highways (the traditional kind).










That's my solution 

What's also important is that towns within the Green Heart (Gouda, Alphen a/d Rijn) stop expanding. Green is green. I think it would be the only way to really convince the environmentalists.


----------



## H123Laci

Slagathor said:


> Within the new Green Heart - you don't build highways, but expressway boulevards.


made of green (colour) tarmac... :lol:

EDIT: oops, you wrote it... 

IMO this is not a good idea:
2x2 is too much for local traffic, but for transit traffic a "traditional" motorway is better... (which can be lined by trees or forest strips also...)


----------



## Slagathor

H123Laci said:


> made of green (colour) tarmac... :lol:
> 
> EDIT: oops, you wrote it...
> 
> IMO this is not a good idea:
> 2x2 is too much for local traffic, but for transit traffic *a "traditional" motorway is better*... (which can be lined by trees or forest strips also...)


No environmentalist will go for that. 

And we don't have forests in the West of Holland. That's the point: it's flat and it's empty. If some city council 50 kilometers down the road decides to construct an industrial area: it's gonna be in _my_ view. 
This 'empty' landscape is considered part of our culture so people wouldn't like it if you just put up a lot of forests to cover up motorways. That's why the government has introduced the concept of a "motorway panorama" (the view from the motorway). They should meet certain criteria to give visitors a positive impression of our country.

The green expressways would be for both local and transit traffic (shortest link between Amsterdam and Rotterdam, and Utrecht and The Hague) but would not be accessible for trucks and other heavy traffic. There's a whole truckload of varieties in there. You could also simply place toll booths there. Keep the motorways free of toll, but charge people to use the expressways. It's not difficult. You just have to think outside the box (which we don't do nearly enough in this country).


----------



## Jeroen669

Building all those new motorways won't make much sense. You don't have to build new motorways for incidents, our network is already very dense to satify that. If the current alternatives wouldn't be already filled with traffic, the total amount of jams wouldn't be as ridiculous long as it is now. Traffic-wise, it doesn't matter where you give traffic extra space. Widen existing roads will barely hurt the environment though, new motorways do...

But yeah, since we're about 30 years behind scedule there is a LOT of work to do.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Gotcha!


----------



## Timon91

Yeah, our crash barriers are really rusty


----------



## Jeroen669

Damn, it took me about 4 hours yesterday to get home (170 kms). :bash: Left at around 16:50, came home around 20:40... 
ALL roads in Rotterdam seemed to be gridlocked. It was like 5 minutes of waiting, then getting 3-4 cars further... :nuts:


----------



## Daniel541

Short movie about the new A5 en 'second Coentunnel' (A10) 

http://www.rijkswaterstaat.nl/projecten/a/a10/tweede_coentunnel_westrandweg/video/index.aspx


----------



## Timon91

Today I saw some new signage on the A7 north of Purmerend. They also repaved the southbound lane recently, it looks pretty good now


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ That signage has been around since mid-December 2008


----------



## Timon91

I hadn't been there for a long time, so I didn't know that


----------



## Timon91

Today a truck toppled over on the A13/A20 interchange. It gave quite some problems, since the A13 is a vital motorway connection in the Netherlands.

For a short video (in Dutch) about the accident, look over here: http://www.nuvideo.nl/algemeen/25953/omgevallen-vrachtwagen-veroorzaakt-chaos.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Could there BE more traffic jams around Utrecht/Amersfoort?


----------



## Timon91

Yes


----------



## Slagathor

Let's give it a shot, everybody to their cars!


----------



## Jeroen669

Tomorrow the N209 at Bleiswijk will be blocked for 4 days, they're predicting a chaos in the Zoetermeer/Rotterdam region...


----------



## Timon91

From a distance I spotted some new style signage on the A2 near exit Vinkeveen. I hope to pass by there soon by car so that I can confirm this.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

:lol:


----------



## H123Laci

^^ is it a moped car?


----------



## Timon91

I don't like FC Utrecht


----------



## PLH

H123Laci said:


> ^^ is it a moped car?


No, Fiat Cinquecento


----------



## CborG

Timon91 said:


> From a distance I spotted some new style signage on the A2 near exit Vinkeveen. I hope to pass by there soon by car so that I can confirm this.


You are right, i don't think it will take long before the traffic will be diverted over the new viaduct there.


----------



## Timon91

The local newspaper said next friday. I'm not sure if they mean tomorrow of friday next week.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Next friday is the day after Queens day, so traffic is probably low... Maybe a good time to switch lanes.


----------



## Mr_Dru

ChrisZwolle said:


> Next friday is the day after Queens day, so traffic is probably low... Maybe a good time to switch lanes.


1 May it's a German holiday 'Tag der Deutsche Einheit'. So I think the Germans are comming. 

At least the borderregions in the Netherlands will be overwehlmed by German visitors. The shops are open till 21h on fridays, because most cities has switch their thursday 'koopavond' to friday, because of Queensday.

Greetings.


----------



## Timon91

As promised, an update of the works of the widening of the A2. 

Please don’t mind the dirty windshield – weather is not very good today. I wasn’t very happy with the pics of the first part anyway. The second part is better IMO

Part 1: A2 southbound Abcoude-Utrecht

1. Looking at the sand dunes near Abcoude










2. Leaving Abcoude










3. Entering the A2










4. Entering the A2










5. No traffic on the other side.....










6. ....because it was moved to the new lane last friday - the local newspaper was right.










7. Work near exit Vinkeveen










8. It was quite busy on the other side










9. Near Nieuwer-ter-AA










10. Approaching exit Breukelen










11. Ground works near exit Breukelen










12. Ground works just after exit Breukelen










13. Sand dunes










14. Near exit Maarssen










15. Exit Maarssen signed










16. Maastricht 182 km. What a distance 










17. Still some slow traffic on the other side










18. New viaduct of Maarssen; the next exit is quite close to exit Maarssen










19. The famous noise barrier










20. The entrance of the new tunnel near Utrecht (2+3+3+2 AFAIK)










21. Again










22. A train on its way The Hague or Rotterdam










23. The entrance of the tunnel










24. The wall of the tunnel










25. Ground works near exit 8










26. Going to Arnhem? Choose between the A2 and the A12 :nuts:










27. Entering the A12 eastbound.










That was all for part 1, part 2 is to come :cheers:


----------



## Timon91

Part 2: A2 northbound Utrecht-Abcoude

28. Exit 8 again, from the other side










29. View at the tunnel










30. New viaduct of exit 7










31. New signage near exit Maarssen :banana:










32. Dirty windshield just north of Maarssen










33. Traffic moves back to the old part just north of Maarssen










34. Exit Breukelen. Traffic still goes over the old side here










35. This part, until Abcoude (including a new viaduct) just opened last Friday - new signage just south of exit Vinkeveen.










36. Northbound traffic uses the new viaduct over here. Since the other side of this new lane has been painted recently I assume that southbound traffic will move to this side as well in the near future.










37. Sign for exit Vinkeveen










38. Exit Vinkeveen










39. Exit Vinkeveen










40. Exit and entrance Vinkeveen










41. View north










42. View north










43. New sign. 










44. Abcoude’s Twin Towers in the background 










45. Exit Abcoude signed










46. Recreational area signed :banana:










47. Exit Abcoude ahead










48. Black, fresh asphalt 










49. A flooded ditch next to the motorway










50. Near exit Abcoude. Note that the small sign indicating that this is exit 3 is missing.










51. Temporary sign for Abcoude










52. New viaduct for exit Abcoude.










53. New viaduct










54. Again.










That’s it, I hope you guys liked it :cheers:


----------



## Timon91

Minister of Transport Camiel Eurlings announced today that all gas stations next to a motorway should have a sign showing the current gas prices. As we speak 150 gas stations in the Netherlands don't have such a sign yet.

source (in Dutch)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Small correction, 150 gas stations along "rijkswegen" don't have such a sign. (one and two digit road numbers). There are way more gas stations along other roads that don't have such signs.


----------



## Timon91

Sorry, I wasn't paying enough attention


----------



## ChrisZwolle

http://www.rtvutrecht.nl/dossiers/209318

Check the video (Dutch). It took that guy from 9 am to 11 am to complete like 15 kilometers in the city of Utrecht.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Busiest autosnelwegen in the Netherlands*

This list is similar to the German one I made;


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Dutch motorists and tourist association ANWB has published a new report about traffic jam development this month. April 2009 was the first time since november 2008 that saw an increase of traffic congestion compared to a year before. The influence of the economic recession on traffic congestion (along with other factors) seems to have halted somewhat. Morning rushhours were still a bit less busy at -18%, but traffic congestion increased +30% during the day.


----------



## Timon91

Abcoude is no. 32 is this list  :banana:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think the A2 Utrecht - Amsterdam will reach 200.000 + in a while, because of the excessive housing developments around Utrecht. Good thing they're ten-laning it.


----------



## H123Laci

damn Timon, you've killed my pc with that photo flooding... :lol:


----------



## Timon91

54 pics isn't that much. Numerous pages in other threads (Poland, Albania, Hungary, to name a few) have many more pics 

We're going to the next page now anyway


----------



## H123Laci

^^ here we are... :lol:

but it recquires a dosen post to leave that flood entirely...
(scc engine brings back the last 20 posts when you write a post...)


----------



## Timon91

^^Not when you post a "quick reply"


----------



## H123Laci

^^ really... 

(I havent noticed it yet... :lol


----------



## Morsue

Timon91 said:


> Minister of Transport Camiel Eurlings announced today that all gas stations next to a motorway should have a sign showing the current gas prices. As we speak 150 gas stations in the Netherlands don't have such a sign yet.
> 
> source (in Dutch)


In Sweden, there is an agreement between the gas companies that prices should be signposted so that driver's can see prices without having to stop. This is not government regulated. But the backside is you can't always see the prices from the motorway. In fact, the possibility to do so is rare.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Amersfoort - Amsterdam*

_Click on the title for the full set_

The A1 is the major east-west axis through central Netherlands, and this set goes from the city of Amersfoort to the capital Amsterdam.

route:









1. Entering A1 from the A28 at interchange Hoevelaken. 









2. Signalling goes to 90 km/h









3. And 70 km/h









4. Somebody took a 90 degrees turn at the freeway.









5. Exit Bunschoten.









6. Parking De Haar.









7. Exit Eembrugge.









8. Amsterdam 35 km.









9. Interchange Eemnes.









10. Exit Soest is integrated within the interchange.









11. N221 exit to the right.









12. Ramps and connector roads.









13. Speed limit drops to 100 down here.









14. Exit Laren.









15. One big urbanized area around here, Atlanta-like densities though.









16. Exit Blaricum.









17. Most of the Dutch wealth is centered around the communities here.









18. Exit Blaricum.









19. Exit Bussum ahead.









20. Narrow alignment through here.









21. Dynamic Maximum speed limits









22. Exit Gooimeer ahead.









23. Six lane alignment through here.









24. Interchange Muideberg, southern end of A6.









25. Old signs. Speed limit drops to 100.









26. Tidal lane is closed now.









27. This is one of the busiest six-lane freeways in the Netherlands. 









28. Exit Muiderberg.









29. Vecht Bridge.









30. Worn out pavement here.









31. Road works ahead.









32. Travel times to interchange Badhoevedorp.









33. 70 was not respected, most people did 110.









34. An arrow too much.









35. Interchange Diemen, south end of A9 (which actually runs west here)









36. Exit Diemen ahead.









37. Exit Diemen.









38. Interchange Watergraafsmeer, the west end of A1.









39. I'm heading onto the A10-East.









40. Amster...dam


----------



## Timon91

Some well-known territory for me. Did you also visit Abcoude?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

New N34 grade-separated intersection near Gieten.


----------



## Timon91

Am I stoned or is this really suitable for a future 2×2?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Not with shoulders. But maybe if they reconstruct some retaining walls of the viaducts. In my opinion, the whole N34 should've been a 4-lane divided highway for decades. It's a killer road!

I don't know why we are not able to double roads to 4 lanes and divided (even without access control), nearly all provincial roads in central Netherlands have traffic volumes high enough to justify it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A10 Ring Amsterdam*

_Click on the title to view the full set_

The A10 is the ringroad, or beltway, of the Dutch capital: Amsterdam. This set covers all of it, in a clockwise direction from interchange Watergraafsmeer on the east side of Amsterdam.

route:









1. Entering A10 from A1, an exit follows immediatly.









2. Exit Diemen.









3. Exit Duivendrecht.









4. Exit Amstel Business Park.









5. The A10 is six-laned mostly.









6. Interchange Amstel ahead, with A2.









7. Skyline of Amsterdam.









8. Exit RAI. Note the pics are taken on a holiday, so light traffic.









9. Highrises.









10. Exit Oud Zuid (Old South)









11. Skyline of Amsterdam-South.









12. Exit Oud Zuid.









13. railway station in the center of the freeway. Wide setup here.









14. "Give emergency vehicles space" www.vananaarbeter.nl









15. Interchange De Nieuwe Meer (A4)









16. Lots of exits ahead. This is the north end of A4.









17. This is a major interchange, and jammed every day.









18. Exit Sloten.









19. Entering the slowpoke zone.









20. The speed limit is strictly enforced here by section control. Your average speed is measured here between two points, but rumour has it that there are also point in between where your speed is measured. A real money-maker.









21. Exit Osdorp.









22. Moving to the left lane. The right lane is filled with people doing 70 km/h.









23. Another highrise.









24. Commieblocks ahead.









25. Exit Geuzenveld.









26. New construction around here.









27. Buildings on top of the freeway.









28. Exit Bos en Lommer.









29. Also the exit for the city of Haarlem.









30. Exit Westpoort. Freeway narrows to 2x2 lanes.









31. Also the exit for IJmuiden.









32. Industries ahead. 









33. Another Westpoort exit.









34. Interchange Coenplein (A8) ahead, but first...









35. The Coentunnel! This 2x2 freeway carries 120,000 vehicles per day, more per hour than is theoretically possible.









36. Narrow and no shoulders. A second tunnel is in preparation.









37. Blurry.









38. You have to exit to follow A10.









39. Exit Oostzanerwerf.









40. Taper.









41. Entering a less claustrophobic part of the A10.









42. Exit Kadoelen.









43. Closed due to police activity.









44. Police eatin' a donut on the shoulder. 









45. Exit Amsterdam-Noord. Major exit.









46. Speed limit of 100 feels awfully slow here.









47. Exit Durgerdam.









48. 









49. Speed camera. I once got ticketed here for doing 107 km/h. Imagine the crime!









50. Exit Zeeburg.









51. Zeeburger tunnel. This one's a bit better with 2x3 lanes, but also operated near capacity. That's why a northern connection from Almere to Amsterdam is undesired at the moment.









52. Interchange Watergraafsmeer (A1). Back where we began.









53. But I'm gonna do another round! (just kidding)









54. Traffic conditions! Filevrij! I love that word.









55. A1 starts here.









56. Taper.









57. And exit Diemen again!









58. Plus the Watergraafsmeer Railyard.


----------



## aswnl

ChrisZwolle said:


> 46. Speed limit of 100 feels awfully slow here.


Well, that's why I drive 130 all the time there.
Just watch out for the 3 Gatso's (s117, s115, KP Watergraafsmeer)...


----------



## Timon91

Thanks for posting, Chris. I've only driven there about..........200 times


----------



## Slagathor

Nice photos!
That N202 (Northwest) should really be a motorway, shouldn't it?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ A8 is better I guess. But they fail to bridge that damn 5 km gap for 30 years now.


----------



## Timon91

Still most of the current route from Zaandam towards the A9 is 2×2, but there are some traffic lights, so extending the A8 would be better.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> 1961 Tracébesluit Coentunnelweg; inclusief Westzaan - Heemskerk


That was 48 years ago. I never understand why those "Tracébesluiten" weren't carried out. A "tracébesluit" means the construction has legally been secured, and construction usually commences within a year.


----------



## xlchris

I took 5 pictures this afternoon on the N201, a local road near and in Hoofddorp;

The N205 and Zuidtangent (special busline) viaduct;




































Overbos & Floriande are city districts of Hoofddorp;


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Future A10 Amsterdam. (now: 2x2 lanes)


----------



## Timon91

Is there any space for that?

@xlchris: nice pics, I see the N201 daily, on some other place


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Current situation:


----------



## Des

Thanks for the pics! In pic 57 you can see part of the new speed camera they placed there about a year ago. First time I passed there I wasn't aware of it and saw it last moment and believe I left two skid marks on the road from slamming on the brake hard enough to slow down to 100 km/h, dangerous things those speed cameras.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The only super-two in the Netherlands: N50 Ens - Emmeloord.

1. Bus stop for nearby farms.









2. looking south.









3. trucks rolling south.









4. Looking north, interchange Emmeloord in the distance.









5. You can't get it flatter than this.


----------



## Timon91

In a few months I might/will be a Tukker


----------



## Tomb Raider

Nice highways. I have been there in 2005, from Brussels to Amsterdam


----------



## hoosier

Extending the A-4 to Rotterdam would be the cheapest and easiest solution to addressing traffic between The Hague and Rotterdam. I don't think any highway should be wider than four lanes in each direction except when intersecting or merging with another major highway.

If after the A-4 extension the existing road network can't handle the traffic, then the government should expand passenger and freight rail service.


----------



## Timon91

It would cost sth like 700 million, not really cheap.....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

hoosier said:


> I don't think any highway should be wider than four lanes in each direction except when intersecting or merging with another major highway.


Sometimes it's just necessary, unless you want to scatter cities with parallel freeways? in those cases; better one big freeway than 3 adjacent ones, although it's technically better to have a multi-freeway network. 



Timon91 said:


> It would cost sth like 700 million, not really cheap.....


Yeah, people keep talking about that. For a 7 km (4 mile) freeway through an already cleared path, it's a ridiculous amount of money. But when you put it in context with our national budget of 180 billion euros annually, it's only 1/257th. Actually, it's build in like three years, so it's really only 1/771th of our national budget, or when you stick to our road budget of 2.8 billion only; 1/12th of the annual budget.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A crashtender crashed onto the A4 south of Schiphol this morning. 5 lanes closed


----------



## xlchris

^Just wanted to post a picture 

Here's another picture from a newspaper: Hoofddorpse Courant;


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Damn they changed the pic in my post, it was a way larger pic that was taken from an overpass or so.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Here it is:


----------



## Tomb Raider

^ Ohh, that's very sad, what happened ? Was he drunk or something ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Tomb Raider said:


> ^ Ohh, that's very sad, what happened ? Was he drunk or something ?


According to nu.nl;

A black Audi A6 with foreign plates changed lanes very suddenly, from A4 to A44 an hit the white van (on the left in my pic), and the Audi got spinned out of control, and the crashtender had to take evasive actions, got onto one side and flipped over.


----------



## bozata90

Result in km traffic jam, please...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, the delay was reported to be over 2 hours.


----------



## Tomb Raider

ChrisZwolle said:


> According to nu.nl;
> 
> A black Audi A6 with foreign plates changed lanes very suddenly, from A4 to A44 an hit the white van (on the left in my pic), and the Audi got spinned out of control, and the crashtender had to take evasive actions, got onto one side and flipped over.


Ohh, sorry then. I hope nobody is dead. Some people are just so crazy hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Lol, they better start naming the freeways that actually do move.









995 kilometers of traffic jam @ 5.48 pm.


----------



## Timon91

Weather is quite bad at the moment. Lots of heavy rain and some thunder storms...


----------



## xlchris

Looks like everybody is in the traffic jam :lol:. On tv they called with the Dutch participant for the Eurovision, just landed and now in the traffic jam.
And on RTL Boulevard there was a Dutch singer, but he was also delayed because of the bad weather and the traffic jams :lol:

BTW, how come that there is 995km of traffic jam? I thought it was always special when there was about 600km of traffic jam. 
And Wikipedia says that the most km of traffic jam was 975 in 1999. I don't get it":nuts:


----------



## Des

xlchris said:


> Looks like everybody is in the traffic jam :lol:. On tv they called with the Dutch participant for the Eurovision, just landed and now in the traffic jam.
> And on RTL Boulevard there was a Dutch singer, but he was also delayed because of the bad weather and the traffic jams :lol:
> 
> BTW, how come that there is 995km of traffic jam? I thought it was always special when there was about 600km of traffic jam.
> And Wikipedia says that the most km of traffic jam was 975 in 1999. I don't get it":nuts:


I think the km's of traffic posted by Chris come from TomTom Live, they measure traffic in a different way from traditional sources. TomTom has a contract with vodafone and can see when multiple of their clients slow down on a highway or even a local road and based on that intel they know if there's a traffic delay. Traditional sources use certain sensors in the road and count the traffic based on the number of cars a minute or the speed of cars at a certain stretch of road, everything under 30-50 km/h counts for a jam / slow moving traffic.

The TomTom system is much more accurate, but also counts delays on B-roads and therefor displays a higher total number of km's jammed.


----------



## xlchris

^Ok thanks. Thought so.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

From the Hungarian topic, I found it better to answer it here.



Atza said:


> ChrisZwolle
> 
> Nice pix in Your personal gallery, grat
> 
> 2 questions:
> 
> Why you use "Expressway" and "Priority road" signs together? We use only one of them at the same place because of their different meaning.
> 
> What does the green line means on the middle of some road?


1) you mean these two?


















Well, the first one shows an "Autoweg", I'm not sure about the exact English term, but it's a kind of "motorroad" or "express road". It's not a motorway, and it's design can vary from a single carriageway without a central reservation, to a 2x2 road without shoulders. The speed limit is 100 km/h, and have a more significant value than other national or provincial roads. 
The second one shows a priority road, which simply means you have priority over other traffic, this could be within city limits, as well as outside city limits. 

2) The green center line is a new thing that has developed since the mid 1990's, and was mostly implemented in the 2000's. It shows that you are on an "Autoweg" (see 1) and the speed limit is 100 km/h. It also creates an artificial central reservation. I think this is the best concept from all the road marking changes that we have seen in the past 10 years. The others were mostly annoying ADHD marking (broken side lines) or endless overtaking prohibits on straight roads.


----------



## Slagathor

ChrisZwolle said:


> 1) you mean these two?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the first one shows an "Autoweg", I'm not sure about the exact English term, but it's a kind of "motorroad" or "express road".


Maybe I can be of some assistance. I've already had to explain this to an American friend of mine who was visiting Holland a while ago.

"Autoweg" is usually translated as "semi-motorway" - it's the motorway's retarded cousin, if you will 

Like Chris said, they have more significant value than other national or provincial roads.

In terms of importance:


Motorway - 120kph. Minimum of 2x2, median with barrier, grade separated access, most commonly a hard shoulder.
Semi-Motorway - 100kph. Range from 1x1 to 2x2, median without barrier (usually double stripe), grade separated access not mandatory, no shoulders.
Provincial roads - 80kph. Range from 1x1 to 2x2, no median, no grade separation, no shoulders.

There are some exceptions throughout the country, sometimes the landscape or other factors allow for a slightly different interpretation of the standards.

Here are some helpful illustrations of the Autoweg, or semi-motorway:


----------



## xlchris

Pictures


BigCrunch said:


> A27
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _(09051620)_
> 
> A15, tunnel onder De Noord:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _(09051622)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _(09051623)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _(09051624)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _(09051625)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _(09051626)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _(09051628)_


----------



## sotonsi

Slagathor said:


> Maybe I can be of some assistance. I've already had to explain this to an American friend of mine who was visiting Holland a while ago.
> 
> "Autoweg" is usually translated as "semi-motorway" - it's the motorway's retarded cousin, if you will


In UK English, motorroad makes more sense and is intuitive - semi-motorway (in both US and UK English) would suggest to me a mostly grade-separated road, or one with rubbish junctions, or poor cross-section, or even things like the A2, where there's a motorway layout (4+4 with hard shoulders) but not motorway restrictions (though by fluke it might be a motorroad anyway). 'Motorway' regulations in America are different from state to state, and many states don't seem to ban slow vehicles, pedestrians and cyclists from freeways, especially in rural areas. They don't really have, or understand the term motorway, and have it synonymous with freeway/expressway (terms which vary from region to region). A motorroad is a road where you can only motor along - autoweg directly translates as motorway, but in European/Oceanic (Aus/NZ) English, that's a specific type of motorroad.

In the UK, motorway is a legal thing (though they do care a bit about standards of slip roads, alignment and cross section, given the legal changes needed). We do have some motor roads, where pedestrians, etc are banned (maybe not the full motorway restrictions, or over a short distance, or low spec, which keep them from being a motorway), but aren't motorways. We don't really have a special name for them - some are "special roads" which are legally defined differently - normally a right-of-way (England and Wales) is open to all, except those banned, whereas a special road (most of which are motorways) are not rights-of-way and are only open to those allowed on it.

Sorry about off-topic, but I'd say Chris is more accurate with 'motorroad', partially as it translates into the UK situation and fits with European English. The, now former, A6144(M) was an S2 (1+1) motorway - it also was totally and utterly motorway - nothing 'semi-' about it - speed limit was motorway's 70, not single-carriageway's 60 (dual carriageways are also 70, so most motorroads, being 2+2 aren't any slower.)

Perhaps we need a terminology thread for translation of concepts into English.


----------



## Timon91

The eastern tube of the Coentunnel (A10) has been closed for a few hours today, due to an accident. At the moment there is a jam on the A2 between Abcoude and Breukelen because a load fell off a truck.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

sotonsi said:


> Perhaps we need a terminology thread for translation of concepts into English.


we actually have such a thread


----------



## ChrisZwolle

In my city of Zwolle (pop. 115.000), and many other places in NL, traffic lights are out of operation at certain times, usually between late evening and early morning. This ensures a great increase in traffic flow, because you don't have to stop every time for one car. When the traffic lights are out of operation, normal traffic laws apply, such as priority and are shown with road signs and road markings. This is how it works:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Signage has been changed at interchange Lankhorst near Meppel (north of Zwolle).

1. OLD:









2. NEW:









Much better now. :cheers:


----------



## MAG

^^^^ 
I can't understand why in the old version there was just one arrow pointing down on the A32 turn-off. There is plenty of space on the gully for two, which is what got fixed in the new version.

Also, the new design has:
- marginally smaller font and, I suspect, reduced letter separation
- significantly smaller autosnelweg ikons
- smaller and inconsistently sized arrows 
- distal places first, proximal places last hno:

Hmmm ... dunno!

I used to love the old Dutch autosnelweg signs and I thought they were a good example of imaginative use of colour, clear font and logical layout. But I am not so sure about the new ones. Not an improvement for me, really. Still clear, though, but inconsistent and with a hint of a job done on a Friday afternoon or a Monday morning.

But hey, let's look on the bright side - at least the new signs are the same size! 


.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Personally, I would've placed the roadnumber at the bottom of the sign. But that's just an aesthetics thing.


----------



## PLH

MAG said:


> But hey, let's look on the bright side - at least the new signs are the same size!


Because they carry the same amount of info. In generall, Dutch new signs don't need to be in the same size, which is a shame.


----------



## paF4uko

What's the role of the green line here?










I saw the explanations but I still don't get it why there's such a green thing in the middle...


----------



## PLH

Relax, you can't overtake for like 40 kms :crazy:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

PLH said:


> Relax, you can't overtake for like 40 kms :crazy:


Make fun of it, but it's very common on provincial roads now...


----------



## PLH

There is probably nothing else to do do but to jeer at it...


----------



## paF4uko

To me it looks like giving people work in times of crisis...


----------



## Qaabus

Work on the A4 bottleneck near Leiderdorp will start in June.
source


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ I hope they will finish it this time. I can never understand if a environmentalist feels good about himself with the knowledge that his actions caused the #1 bottleneck to be kept in place. I can hardly believe such a person will actually think he's doing the right job by wasting other people's time.


----------



## pijanec

PLH said:


> Relax, you can't overtake for like 40 kms :crazy:


I really don't understand the logic behind it. So if someone is driving 60 km/h in front of you and road is empty to overtake, why prohibit overtaking?


----------



## Timon91

^^Because this is the Netherlands


----------



## H123Laci

paF4uko said:


> What's the role of the green line here?


to make the road more environmentally friendly... (aka "green") :lol:

I would like to suggest a cooperation for the holland road painters:

come hungary and paint our roads, cause we ha no money for paint and no money for painters' salary... 

everybody will be happy: they can paint for years, and our roads will be painted finally... :lol:


----------



## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ I hope they will finish it this time. I can never understand if a environmentalist feels good about himself with the knowledge that his actions caused the #1 bottleneck to be kept in place. I can hardly believe such a person will actually think he's doing the right job by wasting other people's time.


ah, its very simple: they want to force drivers to PT so congestion is a good thing...

I read yesterday in the news: they want to create ARTIFICIAL JAMS in budapest by reducing the number of lanes on some arteries to force drivers to PT...

they are fucking crazy... :lol:


----------



## paF4uko

^^ The pedestrian crossing in my city in Bulgaria are painted like this - red background and white stripes... Even the paint they are using is Dutch. :lol:


----------



## H123Laci

^^ the dutch painting maffia infiltrated to your local goverment... :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Ascension day madness around my city. I actually saw this accident a couple of hours ago on the left lane.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

These green 60-signs are rare, and not legal. It's actually a treehugger sign, because it's purpose would be to slow people down without putting a legal speed limit.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This sign says Oldeberkoop is a "nuclear weapon-free municipality". Good to know!


----------



## Timon91

That sign probably dates from the eighties, when the US wanted to put nuclear weapons in Western Europe. Time stood still in Oldeberkoop :lol:


----------



## Verso

Some interesting posts in this thread. :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N353 Havelte - Jubbega*

_Click on the title for the full set_

The N353 is a secondary highway, a main provincial road in the provinces Drenthe and Friesland, northern Netherlands. It mainly serves towns and villages along the route, and is not of transit-value. 

Route:









1. De N371 maakt hier een S-bocht over het kanaal, de N353 gaat hier rechtdoor.









2. Vmax=80.









3. Welkom in Havelte.









4. Binnen de kom.









5. Rotonde voor een weg van niks, had beter een ongeregelde kruising kunnen zijn.









6. Hier begint de madness. Vmax=80.









7. Hier heb je zo'n gelijkwaardige kruising in een mini 60-zone.









8. De markering is zelfs weggesleten. Dit zie je elders op de N371 naar Assen ook. FOUT FOUT FOUT.









9. Nog zo'n 60-stukje.









10. Hunebedden! Ik wist niet dat die ook hier voorkwamen.









11. American truck.









12. Alweer een 60-stukje.









13. Het is maar te hopen dat dit 80 blijft, aangezien ik ongemerkt al over de 100 zat hier.









14. Recht en leeg.









15. Wapserveen city.









16. Wapserveen bestaat zelfs uit verschillende delen.









17. Hier klopt de markering wel weer.









18. Dit is rijden zoals het bedoeld is.









19. Frederiks-
oord.









20. Kruising met de N855.









21. We gaan hier een paar honderd meter naar het oosten.









22. Mooie wegwijzer. Harry heeft hier ook een foto van meen ik.









23. De weg was afgesloten... Toch maar doorgereden.









24. Vmax=80.









25. Wilhelminaoord.









26. Einde 60.









27. Toen kon ik toch echt niet verder. We zijn hier dan ook in Friesland.









28. Wegwijzer. Ik ging hier links.









29. We zijn weer terug op de route in Noordwolde.









30. Ouderwetse RONA-markeringen! Good to be back in the 80's.









31. Wel een paar rare klinkergedeelten voor een doorgaande provinciale weg. Dit is Zandhuizen.









32. Wegwijzer.









33. Meer RONA.









34. Landelijke omgeving.









35. Beetje raar dat N353 rechtdoor ineens niet aangegeven staat.









36. Let op: N353 









37. Maar bij de daadwerkelijke tak van de N353 hangt niet eens een bord!









38. Oldeberkoop.









39. Geloof het of niet, maar dit is dus een provinciale weg.









40. Ik mis hier de saloon nog.









41. Weer een mooi stukje rustige weg.









42. Zone 60. We naderen het einde van de N353.









43. We eindigen hier op de N380, die overigens niet aangegeven staat.


----------



## Timon91

Nice pics, Chris! I used to go on holiday in Doldersum, which is quite close. I see "Gorredijk" on the signs, btw


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Wiiiiide sign:


----------



## Timon91

New signage :banana:


----------



## PLH

Why the very left arrow is so long?


----------



## Timon91

Update on the A2 near exit 8, very close to Utrecht:



BigCrunch said:


> 1. Zuidelijke tunnelin- (rechts) en uitgang (links):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _(09052001)_
> 
> 
> 2. Zuidelijke op- en afrit, op de achtergrond de westkant van Hooggelegen:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _(09052002)_
> 
> 
> 3. Zuidelijke op- en afrit, hier stond vroeger verzorgingsflat Reyngaarde (helaas heb ik daar geen foto's van gemaakt noch kunnen vinden):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _(09052003)_
> 
> 
> 4. Basis voor noordelijke pilaren:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _(09052004)_
> 
> 
> 5. Vanaf het bruggetje bij het Mobilion:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _(09052005)_
> 
> 
> 6. Nogmaals de basis voor de noordelijk pilaren gallerij (de heistelling zie ik ook vanuit mijn kamer bij 12). Tot voor kort stond hier nog de fiets- en voetgangersbrug naar Park Voorn. Helaas heb ik daar geen foto's van gemaakt toen het nog kon:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _(09052006)_
> 
> 
> 7. Rustiek gelegen Rhijnshoek...:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _(09052007)_
> 
> 
> 8. ...Not! (zie ook rechts op foto 2):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _(09052008)_
> 
> 
> 9. Westelijke begrenzing Hooggelegen. Hier ga ik maar niet verder).:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _(09052009)_
> 
> 
> 10. Zo ziet het eruit vanaf de Stadsdambrug:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _(09052010)_
> 
> 
> 11. En zo de andere kant op:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _(09052011)_
> 
> 
> 12. Vanuit mijn raam is de heistelling zichtbaar (links) en de afrit van de De Meernbrug. Daartussenin het fabriekscomplex van Nedal:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _(09052012)_


----------



## Ni3lS

Aw chris. Boring photos of Jubbega - Havelte.  Jubbega sucks, didnt you had anything better to do? Why didnt you drive by. I live in Gorredijk only 3 kilometers from Jubbega. You should know


----------



## pijanec

ChrisZwolle said:


> 2. Vmax=80.


Are you allowed to overtake there? Or why middle line is double?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Ni3lS said:


> Aw chris. Boring photos of Jubbega - Havelte.  Jubbega sucks, didnt you had anything better to do?


Actually, these pics are very interesting for traffic engineers, just because there's so much wrong with the road markings. They do that a lot in Drenthe...hno:



pijanec said:


> Are you allowed to overtake there? Or why middle line is double?


Yes, you can overtake here. The message is that you should thank the authorities on your knees that you are allowed to pass here, but IT'S STILL VERY DANGEROUS! :nuts:

Seriously, the anti-passing phobia has gotten ridiculous proportions here.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Timon may like this.

New signage on the A35 near Enschede. Tell me what you think of this.


----------



## da_scotty

can you tell me why there is a double arrow to the left?? and just one destination?

this looks odd


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ There is a taper situation, like this.









One exit lane becomes a double exit lane at the last moment (higher capacity).


----------



## Timon91

ChrisZwolle said:


> Timon may like this.
> 
> New signage on the A35 near Enschede. Tell me what you think of this.
> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2463/3553786403_050b98985b_o.jpg
> 
> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3652/3554592760_7754b3b290_o.jpg
> 
> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3353/3553786659_3c08800ceb_o.jpg
> 
> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3596/3553786817_bd8ce5023e_o.jpg


Great! It's good to see that they sign two foreign destinations (last pic), I haven't seen that very often in the Netherlands. Unless you count those signs with Paris, London, Brussels, Berlin and Copenhagen of course :nuts:. Those double arrows look kinda cool


----------



## Verso

I don't like that double arrow. I'd think they're two consecutive exits.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Verso said:


> I don't like that double arrow. I'd think they're two consecutive exits.


That's my criticism too. 

Here's another set of new signage. Also note that in this new signage, the distance sign is placed after the exit (as usually in other countries), instead of before the exit.


----------



## Verso

^^ That's more logical, b/c you inform those who just joined the motorway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Pretty dramatic weather over the Netherlands, resulting in huge backups, there are 23 traffic jams exceeding 10km in length, the longest is 29 kilometers. There are 8 traffic jams over 20km in length. The grand total is near 1070 kilometers of traffic jam at 8.30 am. 

Randstad:


----------



## Timon91

At the moment the longest is 36 km, between Den Bosch and Culemborg (A2). There is also a 25 km long jam between Utrecht and Abcoude. Because of this horrible weather I've only slept a few hours last night. From 11:30 to 3:30 was one period of continuous thunder, lightning and rain hno:


----------



## Slagathor

Timon91 said:


> From 11:30 to 3:30 was one period of continuous thunder, lightning and rain hno:


Same here. I have skylights in my bedroom, couldn't sleep at all. At around 3am the hail stones got so big I thought the glass was gonna break hno:

And I had to get up again at 6 to get to work. This is not going to be a good day.


----------



## Timon91

Slagathor said:


> This is not going to be a good day.


Same for me: I have my freaking chemistry exam today hno:


----------



## Mateusz

I have 4 exams left after Spring Bank break


----------



## bakatje

If people aren't whining about traffic, they're about the weather. Or in this case, both. How I love the Netherlands. :banana:


----------



## MAG

ChrisZwolle said:


> That's my criticism too.
> 
> Here's another set of new signage. Also note that in this new signage, the distance sign is placed after the exit (as usually in other countries), instead of before the exit.


I notice that in the new scheme the 'afrit' sign has made it onto the main board, as in the examples above. Tell me, what happens to this 'afrit' sign when you have an overhead sign (on a gully): is the information dropped or has it been migrated onto the the main sign? A picture would be ideal. 

I still cannot help the feeling that the new Dutch signs are smaller. 
Is is just an illusion or is it like that in reality?

BTW - are the junctions now named (e.g. Rijssen)? 
If not, what does 'Rijssen' mean? Nearst town/city/village?

BTW - Enter on the A1 always makes me laugh. Sounds like a very ... inviting place. Really cool! 

.


----------



## H123Laci

Timon91 said:


> Because of this horrible weather I've only slept a few hours last night. From 11:30 to 3:30 was one period of continuous thunder, lightning and rain hno:


more than two decades ago we were camping in the High Tatras, SK and there was a heavy thunder at a night, and the lightning striked near our tent...
...but I was informed about this event only next morning... (I was sleeping all night and I hadnt heard anything) :lol:

p.s.: Iam not deaf I can hear quite well... :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A blade of a wind turbine has just fallen onto the A6 motorway near Lelystad! 

Probably this location. These wind turbines are typically over 100 meters tall.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

OMG:


----------



## PLH

It must have been blowing like hell - this turbine is quite a distance from this place.


----------



## Timon91

They suspect that it has been damaged by lightning yesterday, so that's probably why it fell off.


----------



## Des

Timon91 said:


> They suspect that it has been damaged by lightning yesterday, so that's probably why it fell off.


But still it's on the highway on a location where the turbines are located quite far from the road, so it still flew quite a bit.... Amazing...


----------



## Timon91

In order to get enough momentum to end up on the motorway, it must have been turning when it was released, otherwise it would never have ended up where it did.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, those things are designed to catch the most wind as possible, but it's still amazing, since those turbines are like a couple of hundred meters away if I remember correctly.


----------



## Timon91

The closest windmill to that exit is 130 meters away.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Police conducting speed checks: 16 kilometer traffic jam. The police conducted a license plate check on the westbound A12, which resulted in a 16 km backup. The backup lasted well after 7 pm, there was still a 7km backup at 19.20 hours. This has happened several times in the past couple of weeks. -1 for the Dutch police.


----------



## Timon91

Qwert said:


> You mean Amsterdam Red Light District?


Nah, some other places


----------



## Verso

xlchris said:


> ^Sort of comparison


Better resolution.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some more new signage in NL:



















######################




























######################


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Car on it's roof, caught by webcam at interchange Everdingen (A2/A27)


----------



## Palance

A melted sign  (a year ago, a bus has been on fire on this very spot. Which was not good for the signage)


----------



## Timon91

Funny that it has never been replaced.


----------



## Ni3lS

*Small serie of pics of various roads in the North of Holland*

I'm sorry about the dirty window :lol:

1. Assen










2. 










3. Bridge over the A28 










4.










5.










6. Near Veenhuizen










7. Chris probably wants to explain you all what this sign means 










8.










9. That's too fast :shifty:










10.










11. A small shithole called Haule?!










12. Donkerbroek










13.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You drive a Renault Espace?


----------



## Timon91

A dirty windshield is always a problem during this time of the year.


----------



## Ni3lS

ChrisZwolle said:


> You drive a Renault Espace?


My parents do. It's a great car for vacation/holiday and stuff. A lot of space


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Timon91 said:


> A dirty windshield is always a problem during this time of the year.


Well, it depends where you drive. The Netherlands is flat with lots of lakes, and wet grounds. Ideal for insects and flies. I had less trouble with it in Germany, could drive 350 kilometers before I had to clean the windshield, while you have to do it after 50 km in NL. It wasn't a problem in Switzerland at all.


----------



## Timon91

Of course, but I live in the Netherlands, so that's the problem 

By the way, I spotted some new signage on the A10 east today


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The map speaks for itself. You need some time to look at it, because it's a lot of information in the Randstad of few space.


----------



## Majestic

30,000 around Rotterdam looks pretty massive. Also A67 carries surprisingly huge traffic. Guess it's all the transit between France and Germany though.

Why are some motorway stretches marked in red and some in green?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

E-roads and non E-roads 

Anything above 15.000 trucks per day can be considered huge, I think.


----------



## Timon91

The A67 is a motorway between the Ruhrgebiet and the port of Antwerp.


----------



## RipleyLV

A67 is the only motorway I've driven in The Netherlands so far.


----------



## H123Laci

Ni3lS said:


> I'm sorry about the dirty window :lol:


on some of the photos the camera focused on the dirt instead of the background... :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Everybody wants to go to IKEA:


----------



## Ni3lS

H123Laci said:


> on some of the photos the camera focused on the dirt instead of the background... :lol:


I know. I was trying to fix that but its kinda hard with such a distance between me and the window. I also zoomed in on every picture otherwise you would see the dashboard


----------



## Koesj

@Chris: At what time would that have been? I passed the A1 near Amersfoort at around 10:20... by train


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A37*

Some pics of the A37 (not drive-by) from two locations. here near Klazienaveen and here near Erica.

1. Bij Klazienaveen richting oosten.









2. Zoom.









3. Richting westen.









4. 









5. Bij Erica.









6. Zoom. Richting oosten.









7. Richting westen


----------



## PLH

What is this on the last three pics? Ecoduct?


----------



## Timon91

Viaduct?


----------



## PLH

Fine, but why this weird median?


----------



## Coccodrillo

Are there tunnels under hills in The Netherlands? Or, simply, are there hills?

I remember a photo of a railway running in a small trench, but except that, I have seen only plains.


----------



## Qaabus

Of course there are.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

PLH said:


> What is this on the last three pics? Ecoduct?


The A37 runs below level here for the crossing of a street. The old N37 did that, and they simply added another one to double it to A37.



Coccodrillo said:


> Are there tunnels under hills in The Netherlands? Or, simply, are there hills?
> 
> I remember a photo of a railway running in a small trench, but except that, I have seen only plains.


Significant hills are only in southern Limburg, the other elevated areas are usually only around 100 m high, and are more elevations than real hills.


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2457/3622135741_7711d94ed9_o.jpg


Barger-Compascuum; this sounds Latin.


----------



## CborG

Coccodrillo said:


> Are there tunnels under hills in The Netherlands? Or, simply, are there hills?


Offcourse we have!!


----------



## Coccodrillo

Gulpen, I think: http://image34.webshots.com/34/0/96/40/2647096400053653999nrgfDv_fs.jpg


----------



## kosimodo

Actually, 

The pics are token on the highest parts of the 'Dogback'; the highest mountainridge in the northern part of the Netherlands. 

Both the viaducts are located on roads leading over the highest (en thus dryest) parts of the region.


----------



## Timon91

It's not really a high altitude though. The Hondsrug doesn't have any 'peaks' higher then 27 meters


----------



## Slagathor

_Mountain_ridge? That's stretching it, surely


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, you don't notice anything of it from A37.


----------



## kosimodo

Timon91 said:


> It's not really a high altitude though. The Hondsrug doesn't have any 'peaks' higher then 27 meters


Actually it is a bit lower... 26,5 meters. 

It is the highest natural peak in the nothern part of the Netherlands.
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haantjeduin


----------



## Des

Rofl, mountainpeak of 26,5 meters


----------



## Timon91

Yeah, they Alps are nothing compared to this


----------



## Slagathor

^^ Should be glad we don't have Alps. All those tunnels.. Very expensive. Plus you can't build any cities on mountain slopes so if we had serious mountains we'd be even more cramped together than we already are.


----------



## kosimodo

Dont under estimate the cost of building roads on ground which cannot even support the weight of the roads itself. 

Beside that about 25% of the surface of the Netherlands is purely water.


----------



## Slagathor

I am aware, hence the lack of underground subways in cities like The Hague. Unaffordable.


----------



## LochNESS

^^ In The Hague this is mostly no problem as most parts of the city are build on dunes (thus sand which is a relatively steady underground). The problems with the tramtunnel had causes. Amsterdam and Rotterdam on the other hand have been build on peat with all the problems that come from that. But in general the underground is the Netherlands is horrible to build on.


----------



## Slagathor

^^ I was always taught Schevening was built on dunes, but downtown the Hague (_achter_ de duinen - where the tram tunnel is) was built on peat. This map seems to confirm that:

http://www.freewebs.com/belevenissen-van-een-tuinkabouter/Grondsoorten Nederland.jpg


----------



## LochNESS

^^ The poorer regions build in the 19th centrury such as the Schilderwijk etc were build on peat. But the old city is build on sand. The larger North-South streets were build over the dunetops as those were the highest grounds. Basicly everything west of the Amsterdam-Rotterdam railway is peat although some parts west of it also are build on peat. The map you show is correct but the scare is too large to properly show the extent where the sand ends.


----------



## Red85

CborG said:


> Offcourse we have!!


Those sheeps in front makes the pic!!!

:lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Uh-oh on A1 near Apeldoorn...


----------



## Timon91

Oops :nuts: I read about it in the newspaper today. The jam was not that long though. Only 13 kms.


----------



## Slagathor

Well yeah, they sealed the motorway off entirely shortly after, didn't they? So any jam was never gonna grow into a giant monster. 

The same cannot be said for local highways and other motorways in the region I suspect.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, all traffic was diverted via A30-A12-A50 (or the other way round). Traffic jams were 16 km in both directions.


----------



## Ni3lS

*A7 - Drachten - Groningen / Groningen - Exit Beetsterzwaag*

24 Pics.


1. 










2. 










3. 










4. 










5. 










6. 










7. 










8. 










9. 










10. 










11. 










12. 










13. 










14.










15.










16.










17.










18.










19.










20.










21.










22.










23.










24.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice  I know this route pretty good (although it's 100 km from my home), because my ex-girlfriend used to live in a village northwest of Groningen-City.


----------



## Timon91

Nice pics, Ni3ls! About photo 17: how long is the section with new signage?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's only one sign... I took this picture in March


----------



## ChrisZwolle

N35 just outside Zwolle... This two-lane undivided highway carries 25,000 AADT, and has traffic lights and at-grade intersections. 

These pics were taken around 1.30 - 2 pm.


----------



## PLH

You definitely should ban overtaking there. And post a 70 km/h limit :hahano:


----------



## Timon91

Maybe time for 2×2 all the way?


----------



## Ni3lS

thanks for comments Timon and Chris. I've been to Schiphol Airport today. Made a lot of pics so I will post them later  Btw: They installing new signage near to Lemmer at the moment


----------



## MarkusErikssen

Dokkum will be connected with Drachten soon, there will be a highway (how to call it?) from Dokkum to Drachten. Can't wait!

My mother goes to Drachten every week, from Dokkum to Drachten is 35/45 minutes, with that highway it will be 16/17 minutes. Very busy road, especially with rush hour.


----------



## Timon91

You mean that the N356 will be an "autoweg" (expy) soon?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Yeah, called the "centrale as" (central axe)

They have decided to go ahead with the double-deck tunnel in Maastricht. (A2)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Ni3lS said:


> Btw: They installing new signage near to Lemmer at the moment













:cheers:


----------



## TheCat

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ Yeah, called the "centrale as" (central axe)
> 
> They have decided to go ahead with the double-deck tunnel in Maastricht. (A2)


"Central Axis" 

Looks like a very impressive project. How long would the tunnel be?


----------



## Snuck

The tunnel will be 2.5 KM long and they expect the completion of the tunnel in 2016, but as always things will take a little longer then normal ^^


----------



## Timon91

And of course at twice the expected cost


----------



## Verso

Wow, a double-decker tunnel, really progressive.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Timon91 said:


> And of course at twice the expected cost


Nah Southern Limburg has better soil than say, the Randstad. And it's not a rail project, which significantly reduces the chances of a huge cost-overrun.


----------



## sotonsi

why is this tunnel going to be 2x2 upper deck + 2x2 lower deck? Some kind of express/local set up? surely either 4x4 (with one carriageway above another) or 2+2 upper deck x 2+2 lower deck (ie rather than direction grouped by side of tunnel, it's grouped by deck) would be easier, unless there is an express-local style set up.


----------



## Timon91

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nah Southern Limburg has better soil than say, the Randstad. And it's not a rail project, which significantly reduces the chances of a huge cost-overrun.


Still NIMBY's are everywhere


----------



## ChrisZwolle

sotonsi said:


> why is this tunnel going to be 2x2 upper deck + 2x2 lower deck? Some kind of express/local set up? surely either 4x4 (with one carriageway above another) or 2+2 upper deck x 2+2 lower deck (ie rather than direction grouped by side of tunnel, it's grouped by deck) would be easier, unless there is an express-local style set up.


One level is for local traffic, and one for through traffic.

It means that there capacity on this corridor doubles.


----------



## sotonsi

having a local/through arrangement doesn't mean that capacity doubles - it's having 4 lanes in each direction that doubles the capacity!

Anyway, the picture makes sense now - a local/express set up is what I guessed.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A2 motorway is flooded near Utrecht. Lane closures, stopped traffic. Torrential rains across the Netherlands. A73 or A67 is also flooded near Venlo.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The TT motorraces have ended in Assen, meaning everybody returns south on A28. There is currently a 60 kilometer backup between Assen and Zwolle. Delay of 160 minutes.


----------



## PLH

Same here(floodings), there was quite of a traffic jam on the A4.


----------



## DanielFigFoz

ChrisZwolle said:


> One level is for local traffic, and one for through traffic.
> 
> It means that there capacity on this corridor doubles.


That certanly explains it, mabye they should make it a bit bigger, so when demand increases they can make more lanes and thus make the capacity level higher.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nah, the current road has 2x2 lanes and carries 50.000 - 60.000 AADT. The new road will have 4x2 lanes, which is a capacity of near 200.000. I don't think any more capacity will be necessary, this is actually a declining region, and also a border region, and border traffic is not likely to increase that much.


----------



## CborG

Interesting video of the future A2 between Deil and Everdingen:

http://www.gelderlander.nl/video/regionieuws/article5173306.ece


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A28 near Assen, Drenthe province. I think this is the most quiet part of the entire A28, a lot of through traffic exits onto N33 south of Assen, and traffic from Assen usually goes to Groningen, which means the bypass of Assen is the most quiet part.









Traffic jam on the A7/N7 in Groningen. This road is almost always jammed due to the busiest traffic light intersection in the Netherlands.









Gasunie HQ along the N7 expressway (which will turn into the A7 motorway just a few hundred meters further west)


----------



## Timon91

Why don't they just name it the A7 since this road has been upgraded?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Three coaches crashed into a truck on A2 near Abcoude (Ping mr Timon)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Holiday mayhem begins. 

At the moment 60 kilometer traffic jam on A2 south of Abcoude, and 30 kilometer backup on A50 around Arnhem and Nijmegen.


----------



## Mateusz

Would train be better, quicker and more comfortable in this case ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No this is holiday traffic.. A train can't substitute that.


----------



## Slagathor

Take the tires off your caravan, hook it up to the Thalys. I predict trouble


----------



## MAG

ChrisZwolle said:


> Holiday mayhem begins.
> ... 60 kilometer traffic jam ... 30 kilometer backup ....


The NL autosnelweg network is turning into a car park. hno:

Please could you advise me on how I could avoid this kind of nightmare on a week day. I need to go to Rotterdam/Den Haag in August from Poland. I normally take the E30 route and enter NL on the A1 near De Lutte/Oldenzaal.

What is the best way to get to Rotterdam/Den Haag from around Oldenzaal? My usual route is A1 > A50 > A15, so my question is: could I do better than that?

I would appreciate your advice and any traveller's tips. 


.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ There are no alternatives. If you hit rushhour, you will have congestion. Although summer period isn't that bad, summer rushhours have only like 50 - 100 km of traffic jam, as opposed to 200 - 600 km (depending on measure) during normal rushhours.


----------



## kosimodo

^^ i come each year several times in the NL.. 

I has been over 10 years since i hit a traffic jam I come in the holidays and plan my trips around the rush hours... 

It is better to stay on the terrace, drinking another coke, enjoying the sun, then waiting in line...


----------



## Slagathor

MAG said:


> I would appreciate your advice and any traveller's tips.


There's only one way around traffic jams in this country: take a plane.


----------



## Kaasbroodje

It is maybe a local issue, but I see much more traffic jams around Breda lately, is that new? Sections where trafficjams often occur are the A16 between interchange Princeville and Galder, A58 between interchange Galder and interchange Sint Annabosch (and even further to Tilburg) and the A27 between exit Breda-Zuid and Interchange Hooipolder. In former times I can only remember traffic jams on the A59 because of the traffic lights.


----------



## Des

Slagathor said:


> There's only one way around traffic jams in this country: take a plane.


You will get stuck on your way to the airport and have to cue for customs :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kaasbroodje said:


> It is maybe a local issue, but I see much more traffic jams around Breda lately, is that new? Sections where trafficjams often occur are the A16 between interchange Princeville and Galder, A58 between interchange Galder and interchange Sint Annabosch (and even further to Tilburg) and the A27 between exit Breda-Zuid and Interchange Hooipolder. In former times I can only remember traffic jams on the A59 because of the traffic lights.


It's hard to say. As far as I know, traffic patterns haven't changed around Breda due to new roads recently. In fact, traffic congestion is significantly down due to the recession, especially truck traffic has decreased, which has a positive impact on the road capacity.

It could be a local problem, such as traffic light changes that cause queues on the motorway.


----------



## Slagathor

Des said:


> You will get stuck on your way to the airport and have to cue for customs :lol:


Trains and subways are an answer but then you'll still be queuing for ticket vending machines


----------



## mgk920

Slagathor said:


> Trains and subways are an answer but then you'll still be queuing for ticket vending machines


^^
And THEN you'll be standing for who knows how long there waiting for the next train!

:rofl:

:runaway:

Better try a bicycle (or skates in winter)....

:lol::lol::lol:

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

We all better go back to farming, where everyone grows their own crop, nobody ever needs to travel anymore


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I always found the N281 an interesting road, it's one of the very few urban expressways in the Netherlands. Road class is usually motorway -> next = regular road. There's no road class in between (expressway).


----------



## Slagathor

Max speed 100kph?

The N57 between Middelburg and Vlissingen-Oost is going to be an interesting road in that respect as well (when the complete the new route and aquaduct by late 2010). It'll be 2x2 with a wide green median. Although I think the maximum speed in the Middelburg area will be 80kph. hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some new signage near Abcoude, also showing the width of the A2 in the future 



















Yuck!









Wtf did they do here?


----------



## PLH

Too many numbers, signs not in the same size hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I hate E-numbers, they're no use... only messing up the signage. Europe is no United States, E-numbers should be administrative only.


----------



## Slagathor

E-numbers are nonsense indeed. I don't know anyone who pays attention to them.

On a side note: ZOAB is such a blessing. I drove into a massive thunderstorm last night, the entire motorway had ZOAB, except for a short bridge. It's such a gigantic difference, I had almost forgotten what driving through the rain used to be like!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The real Dutch mountains:


----------



## Verso

^ Wow, that's a LOT. Steepest I remember driving wasn't much more (25%), and I live on foothills of the Alps.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Not often seen here, but this is what the Dutch cycling-signage looks like.


----------



## mgk920

Mr_Dru said:


> For daytourist or visitors, the best way to park your car in Amsterdam is underneath the Amsterdam ArenA-stadium (Transferium).
> 
> Cost 6 Euro per day and you get 4 Public Transportation Tickets (Train/Metro/Bus) to travel from Bijlmer-ArenA Station to Amsterdam Central Station. The journey from Bijlmer-ArenA to Central Station with the metro is 10 minutes.
> 
> The Amsterdam parkingfares are high because there is a lack of parkinglots. The old citycentre isn't build for motorized traffic.


Just like with Chicago - best is to park at the Cumberland Ave park-and-ride garage (near O'Hare Airport-ORD - about USA$3 for the day) and take the CTA downtown (fare about USA$4 R/T). Note, these prices may have changed since I was last there a year ago. This compared with $20-30 for parking downtown.

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

In my opinion, up to 15 - 20 euros for 24 hours of parking is acceptable in downtown areas. Anything above that is a real rip-off. Municipalities are abusing the lack of parking space to generate revenue. 

Most businesses are not located in downtown Amsterdam though, I have no stats, but I estimate less than 20% of the jobs in Amsterdam is in the downtown core.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A traffic jam in 1964.









This was interchange Oudenrijn in 1964, a simple multilane roundabout. Today, it's a *little* different:


----------



## Slagathor

Great comparison.

On the photo from the '60s, that guy on the rightmost lane is loving it


----------



## xlchris

ChrisZwolle said:


> A Dutch survey found that Amsterdam is the most expensive city in the world to park your car. One day parking cost € 50 or 70 dollars. The most expensive parking garage in New York is 40 dollars.


No, it is one of the most expensive cities. 2 locations in London are even more expensive to park your car.


----------



## Euromast

On A12 near Ede, This part was u/c for new lane and exit lane. I like the cute aerodynamic type design of the over bridge


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A2: :cheers:


----------



## kosimodo

Wow! When? 

(When the worldcup final and the olympics were on one day?)


----------



## xlchris

Rotterdam 


hoogbouw010 said:


>


----------



## xlchris

The Schipholtunnel has been closed for a while yesterday due to an accident on the A4


----------



## Kaasbroodje

Lots of Police cars and cars from Rijkswaterstaat over there!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another Belgian sign spotted in the Netherlands. Zwollywood.


----------



## Timon91

Would anyone like to spend the summer in the Netherlands?


----------



## TheCat

^^ Our summer is not much better this year .


----------



## Timon91

I also made these two pics yesterday:

View in the mirror while driving east on the A1










Entering the A35 near Enschede










We were listening to the weather forecast on the radio, and every time the reporter said the same: some sun, but also some heavy showers, strong wind, hail and thunderstorms. Temperature between 14 and 24 degrees. Useful


----------



## xlchris

^Lol, it's terrible indeed but I'm planning on going to the beach tomorrow, it's expected to become (much) better


----------



## Timon91

Optimist


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, I wanted to do some trips this weekend, but the weather sucks.


----------



## xlchris

I found this video, driving over the Van Brienenoordbrug in Rotterdam, filmed on january 18th this year. (Watch in HD!)


----------



## xlchris

Took some shots on the following route;


----------



## xlchris

New A2 tunnel in Utrecht (u/c, as you can see )


junky said:


>


----------



## koloite

*Road works on A1*

The A1 between Hengelo and the German border is being reconstructed. The current concrete plates will be replaced by ZOAB, and the road will be widened by approx 1 meter on each side. Currently, they are working between intersection Buren (A1/A35) and Hengelo Noord. The photo is taken heading towards Germany. At the moment the two lanes heading east are divided by the central crash barrier. Make sure to pick the right lane if you have to get off at Hengelo, Hengelo Noord or gas station Lonnekermeer.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*BREAKING NEWS*

All objections against the construction of the A5 Westrandweg near Amsterdam have been overruled by the council of state, effectively meaning the construction gets a green light. Further appeal is not possible at this point.

The second Coentunnel has also been given the green light a few months ago, meaning traffic situation will significantly improve when this project is finished.

A5 will relieve the A10-west, and the second Coen Tunnel will relieve the existing Coen Tunnel (2x2, no shoulders, 120.000 AADT)


----------



## H123Laci

^^ crisis has its advantage: it washes out the green cataract from the peoples' eyes... :lol:


----------



## Slagathor

Hey not bad! Not as good (for me) as the A4 Midden Delftland would be, but I'll take it


----------



## hoosier

Where is the location of the Second Coen Tunnel and what route will it carry?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It will be right next to the existing Coen Tunnel, and will carry the A10. (Amsterdam beltway). 

The problem in this area is the limited amount of connections across the North sea canal, together with most housing being developed north of it, and jobs remain south of it.


----------



## xlchris

I went to the new bus and bike bridge over the A4;

The bridge;









Towards The Hague/Rotterdam;


















Towards Amsterdam/Schiphol;


----------



## Mateusz

That's really good info about A5 ! TBH, I didn't expect such news though


----------



## Timon91

2×5 on the A2, near Maarssen. This seems to be the first spot where both directions are ready for 2×5. Pic was taken about a week ago.










Unfortunately the 2×5 becomes 2×3 very quickly afterwards, so I couldn't wait for the wipers to dry the window :lol:


----------



## Mateusz

How wide will be new A5, 2x3 straight away ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, 2x2.


----------



## madao

xlchris said:


> I found this video, driving over the Van Brienenoordbrug in Rotterdam, filmed on january 18th this year. (Watch in HD!)


Daily road

sometimes its annoying when the bridge openshno:


----------



## xlchris

Kleinpolderplein seen from the Euromast (Rotterdam)


BigCrunch said:


> _(09080218)_


----------



## da_scotty

Even though where in a metropolitan area as the randstad, i am always surprised by the fact how green holland is.

If you look at other countrys you often see no green at all, and look at this picture, looking over a very busy area of rotterdam, and you see all this..

Not everything is bad in holland:nuts:

Although I do agree that a single tree shouldn't be able to stop a motorway being build, which somethimes seems to be the case here


----------



## ChrisZwolle

da_scotty said:


> If you look at other countrys you often see no green at all, and look at this picture, looking over a very busy area of rotterdam, and you see all this..
> 
> Not everything is bad in holland:nuts:


Our residential neighborhoods suck though... usually a rowhouse, a paved front yard (very small often), a paved sidewalk, paved street, another paved sidewalk, another paved front yard, en then another row of rowhouses... not much green, and if there is, it's a useless piece of grass that's used as a parking lot because there aren't enough parking spaces. 

I gotta say I like the American residential neighborhoods better... big front lawns, trees, etc that all look part of the neighborhood. Dutch lawns are always secluded on the back side of the house. Also, Dutch homes lack private garages, or a driveway to park your car near your house, so every street is filled with cars everywhere you look... very ugly. 

It's basically this....









or this:


----------



## xlchris

^Not all Dutch residential streets look like that


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Motorway and Highway plans in 1966. Map made by Kaaiman. The double solid lines were motorways existing at that time.


----------



## Coccodrillo

Are there any plans to extend the two short A5 and A8?


----------



## Timon91

Interesting picture, Chris. It seems that in those days they were still quite sure about the Markerwaardpolder


----------



## Slagathor

Notice the Westerschelde connection. First time it was mentioned was in 1953. The tunnel was opened in 2003. Didn't get great priority from the Dukes and Stewards in The Hague


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A50 Zwolle - Eindhoven*

_Click on the title to view the full 155 picture set._

A trip down south, clinching all of the A50 motorway from Zwolle to Eindhoven, two of the larger cities in the Netherlands. The A50 is an important connection, since it connects a number of 100.000+ cities, like Zwolle, Apeldoorn, Arnhem, Nijmegen and Eindhoven. The busiest part is around Arnhem, and the concurrency with the A12 motorway. 

A number of upgrades are planned for the A50. It has recieved shoulder running between Apeldoorn and Arnhem, and a widening is forecasted to begin in 2012/2013 along the west side of Arnhem, widening the freeway to 6 or 8 lanes.

The first part of A50 opened in 1957 as part of the A12 concurrency near Arnhem, the first real part opened was in 1972. Most of the A50 was constructed in the 1970's, rather late actually. Also constructed in the 70's was the Emmeloord - Joure section, now part of the A6 motorway.

The Oss - Eindhoven section was opened between 2003 and 2006, as one of the most recent freeway openings in the Netherlands. The southern end of A50 near Eindhoven is currently under construction to replace the traffic lights with A58 with a freeway interchange.

route:









1. Interchange Hattemerbroek. The northern terminus of the A50 motorway. It continues north as the N50 express road to Emmeloord, which has a few traffic lights.









2. N50 exit.









3. The Zwolle - Apeldoorn connector is a direct fly-over, no loops as the rest of the interchange. Also seen in this picture; The Hanze line railroad under construction.









4. Eindhoven was recently added to the signs. This has been done after the A50 was completed. Before that, the A50 used to run to Den Bosch, the Oss - Den Bosch freeway is now the A59.









5. Exit Hattem. Entering the Veluwe forests.









6. The A50 counts as one of the more scenic freeways in the Netherlands, because freeways running through large forested areas are rare in NL.









7. Exit Heerde.









8. Rest area Het Veen.









9. Exit Heerde-Zuid.









10. Leaving the Veluwe for a few kilometers, running though agricultural lands.









11. Exit Epe (there is also an Epe in Germany and Nigeria)









12. Exit Vaassen. Minor exit actually.









13. Exit Apeldoorn-Noord. Apeldoorn is a major city at 150.000 inhabitants, though mostly suburban in nature.









14. Exit Apeldoorn. Also leads to the Hanseatic city of Zutphen.









15. Interchange Beekbergen with the east-west A1 motorway, which runs from Amsterdam to Hengelo and further into Germany.









16. Rest area the Brink. A1 traffic merges, the A50 is usually busier south of Apeldoorn.









17. Exit Loenen, entering the Veluwe again.









18. Exit Hoenderloo. Shoulder running is often allowed here, also outside rushhours.









19. Big truck, 25.25 meters









20. Wildlife passage.









21. Descending 4% to the Rhine river valley. A50 might be one of the highest motorways of the Netherlands here at nearly 100 meters.









22. Two exits quickly after eachother.









23. Exit Arnhem-Centrum.









24. Interchange Waterberg. One of the more scenic interchanges, blended into the hills. Especially the connector to Oberhausen is nice, passing under a number of viaducts.









25. A sharp turn to the west, merging with A12. Ready for a few kilometers of concurrency with A12?









26. This concurrency has 6 lanes, and might be the only 6-lane freeway in the Netherlands that is not lit at night.









27. Follow Utrecht to get some pot and prostitutes.









28. Interchange Grijsoord. The A50 turns south here again. Opened in 1972.









29. This is an improvement of signage.









30. Otherwise, you wouldn't know about this taper.









31. Rolling southbound, as was this Irish vintage courier truck.









32. Exit Renkum.









33. Exit Heteren. Rotterdam is already signed here for westbound traffic.









34. Don't become a sleepy driver... This is easily on this stretch of freeway, since the friday traffic jams are usually 15 kilometers here. 









35. Interchange Valburg with the east-west A15 motorway. You can take this freeway to if you have to be at the north side of Nijmegen. If you need to be in the west or south side of Nijmegen, continue down A15.









36. A truck broke down here on the shoulder.









37. A VMS. Nothing to show. It's summertime, that means less traffic jams.









38. Interchange Ewijk ahead. This 4-lane freeway carries over 100.000 vehicles per day.









39. This is the northern terminus of the A73 motorway, which leads you down to Venlo, and even Maastricht. Most Germany-bound traffic follows A73 south.









40. Interchange Bankhoef follows suit.









41. This one goes to A326 to Wijchen (pronounce that!)









42. Exit Ravenstein. This road opened in 1975.









43. A 2CV from Northern Ireland.









44. Another turned-off VMS









45. Interchange Paalgraven. Opened in 2006.









46. A50 continues south here, eastern terminus of the A59 which goes all the way to Zierikzee in Zeeland province.









47. Exit Nistelrode ahead. Most recent opened part of A50.









48. Exit Zeeland (not to be confused with the Zeeland province)









49. Exit Volkel. They say American nuclear warheads are/were stored here on an airbase. Dangerous territory!









50. Exit Veghel. Headquarters of the Jumbo supermarket chain. They operate some long trucks as seen earlier.









51. Exit Eerde. The A50 recieved significant traffic immediatly after opening, but relieving the A2 motorway, which was used by Eindhovenbound traffic before.









52. Sint Oedenrode.









53. Pit-stop to clean my windshield for the Eindhoven bypass drive.









54. Another turned-off VMS. It seems like they are installing them everywhere.









55. Exit Son en Breugel.









56. Southern terminus of the A50 motorway.


----------



## Timon91

@Slaghator: At least it's there now. The A6/A9 connection and the A4 MD are also mentioned. They're not there yet, and only God knows how long it will take before they're finally there hno:


----------



## Wover

ChrisZwolle said:


> A50


I was on that road too yesterday, between 3pm and 5pm.

We were returning from our roadtrip to Denmark. It was indeed quite a scenic motorway at some places, but I've seen better on the trip obviously .

Btw, after the A50 interchange with the Eindhoven ringroad, after Veldhoven there is a sign that confused me a bit, because it said "Antwerpen 45km" . 

Have you seen that sign?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Wover said:


> Btw, after the A50 interchange with the Eindhoven ringroad, after Veldhoven there is a sign that confused me a bit, because it said "Antwerpen 45km" .
> 
> Have you seen that sign?


Yeah, that's already an infamous error 

Follow the link!


----------



## 909

Somewhere on the A50 there is a never-used viaduct.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah that's here

The A50 south of here used to be the Apeldoorn - Arnhem main road before it was rebuild into a motorway. This is a leftover viaduct I believe. the section to the north of here was a new route for the motorway.


----------



## Verso

Cool photos, Chris.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

New signage at Interchange Lankhorst

Interchange Lankhorst was created in 1969 as a Zwolle <-> Meppel connection only. Meppel <-> Hoogeveen was a missing connection for a long time. In july 2008, road works started to complete interchange Lankhorst for these connections. They are valuable for traffic from Meppel to the east, as well as for traffic from Heerenveen and Leeuwarden to Emmen and into Germany. 





































Signage for Groningen doesn't make much sense here by the way, since one travels southbound on A32, away from Groningen. If you want to go to Groningen from Meppel, it's already faster to use A32 and A7 than A28.


----------



## Coccodrillo

Coccodrillo said:


> Are there any plans to extend the two short A5 and A8?


Nothing?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A5 will be under construction as of this year. It will be a 2x2 motorway with a Vmax of only 80 km/h. 

There are no real plans to extend A8, although they should do so.


----------



## Timon91

Yeah, I once drove from the end of the A8 to the A9. It's mostly 2×2, but there are traffic lights and it's not really fast. They should really extend it though.

And why only 80 km/h? Those environmentalists again? Or the not working policy of trying to reduce congestion?


----------



## Coccodrillo

How long will be the A5 then? Thank you


----------



## MAG

ChrisZwolle said:


> New signage at Interchange Lankhorst ...


The new signs look so nice and fresh! 

But I cannot understand why the European route marker (E232 in this case) is sometimes above and sometimes next to the Dutch autosnelweg marker (A28 in this case). There is plenty of space to accommodate both on the same line below Staphorst, especially if the sign were to be made wider.

I cannot make up my mind which version of A28/E232 is inconsistent with the rest: one on the left or one on the right. Any ideas or reasons why the new signs are designed in this way? Looks a bit messy, which is very unlike what you normally expect from the Dutch.



.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

E-numbers were usually signed on top of the signs, these were called a "ruiter". 

They started to integrate them recently, which led to messy signs. An overkill on information sometimes, while barely nobody uses E-numbers to navigate around a country or even international.


----------



## woutero

Coccodrillo said:


> How long will be the A5 then? Thank you


The new A5 (Westrandweg) will be about 10 km long. It will connect to the A10 right before the Coentunnel. At the same time a new tunnel will be built to more than double the capacity there (from four to nine lanes). From the new junction between the A5 and A10 and the A8 near Zaandam, there will be reversible rush hour lanes.

The A5 Westrandweg:









The A5 Westrandweg:









The situation around the Coentunnel after completion.
Black is motorway, red is reversible lane, green is non-motorway/exits:









There's a vid about the new tunnel here:
http://www.rijkswaterstaat.nl/wegen...weede_coentunnel_westrandweg/video/index.aspx


----------



## Timon91

^^There seem to be only two permanent northbound lanes, which is the same as now. There should be at least 4.

Anyway, two pics I made today, of the A1 near Oldenzaal. This is probably the last bit of concrete motorway in the Netherlands, and it is currently being repaved. I also made a video of this section, but it seems to be too shaky, I'll have a look at it.



















Weather wasn't fabulous anyway


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's right!

A little sidenote about the roundabout. It's poorly conceived and signed, there should be a physical lane divider, but there isn't one, which makes this one look like a regular 2-lane roundabout, but it's a turbo roundabout. Also, the signage is still temporary, which doesn't make this any clearer.


----------



## Timon91

Today I made a video from the A2 Oudenrijn interchange - Abcoude. Unfortunately the cable of my camera is still at home so I won't be able to transfer it to my computer until tomorrow.


----------



## Timon91

Youtube fucked up the quality of the video, sorry about that:


----------



## Majestic

Hey, nice video and the quality is decent. Only the windshield dirty as usual. 

Is everyone speeding there or you're just driving that slow?


----------



## Slagathor

^^ Timon is 91 years old (hence the username). Old people just drive slower


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The quality of the video is okay 

Youtube requires some time for processing, even after it has gone "live". My videos sometimes take up to an hour to process to full quality.


----------



## Timon91

Slagathor said:


> ^^ Timon is 91 years old (hence the username). Old people just drive slower


Yeah, that's why I've just finished highschool 

We were just driving 95 (90 is the speed limit), so everyone is just speeding


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Typical example of ridiculous speed limits...

This road will be 2x5 with a Vmax of 100 km/h...... hno:

Similar problems are on A16, 2x3 and a Vmax=100 from Rotterdam to Breda.


----------



## Slagathor

Timon91 said:


> Yeah, that's why I've just finished highschool


Please don't tell me you were born 1991, that should be illegal. I just turned 26, and I went to some silly school play cause a friend dragged me there. Anyway, all the kids were born in 2000/2001. That's just wrong, man 



> We were just driving 95 (90 is the speed limit), so everyone is just speeding


I hate having to do 90, I always feel like I could get out and push the car and still be faster.


----------



## Timon91

Slagathor said:


> Please don't tell me you were born 1991, that should be illegal.


I didn't drive, I did nothing illegal. Nothing wrong with 1991


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Everybody knows about A4 Delft - Rotterdam. It's a project that has legally been on the table since the ROD (record of decision) in 1965, 44 years ago.

However, what many don't know, that there's even a project with a significant older ROD. The A11 between A4 and A44 had got it's ROD as early as 1956 and 1959. That's 53 years ago. 

approximate route:









This project, however, is very sensitive too, but doesn't get much nationwide political attention, mostly because it would relieve the city of Leiden, but it doesn't have much national importance like A4. The A11 project (Rijn land route) does get some attention every once in a while, but nothing serious yet. 

Leiden is one of the worst Dutch cities for driving. Of course, it's no The Hague or Amsterdam, but for a city of it's size, the road network is pretty bad. The freeways A4 and A44 cannot play a significant role in Leiden's traffic, and there is no good beltway or east-westroutes through the city. That's why A11 is needed. This area has seen significant development of housing, and they now want to developed former NAS (Naval Air Station) Valkenburg into a mass housing location.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another headache project.... A15 south of Arnhem. 

This route was planned since like 30 years, but never build. Now they want to construct it, the only problem is ridiculous environmental measures to build this freeway cause the construction price to go sky high. Estimates for this 14 kilometer, rural freeway are up to 1.2 billion euros.


----------



## Coccodrillo

85 millions/km...why? Did they plan a lot of tunnels and viaducts, always expensive?


----------



## Timon91

If it will ever be built, I guess that environmentalists have gone so far that it will be one big tunnel hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Every damn municipality wants a depressed freeway. And you know what kind of soil the Netherlands has. They need to get some reality and stop wasting taxpayers money.


----------



## cees

imagine, how much acres of nature you can develop with all the extra costs wich are now going to the environmentfriendly highway's


----------



## MAG

ChrisZwolle said:


> Another headache project.... A15 south of Arnhem ... estimates for this 14 kilometer, rural freeway are up to 1.2 billion euros.


1.2 billion for 14 km is insane! 
I would say this is factor of 5 out, easily. 
What are these estimates based on?

Given the flat landscape, is there no way to screen the mway using cascaded natural barriers such as earth embankments + bushes/trees/thickets + noise barriers behind all of this?

You can do a lot of good with 1.2 billion and only ~200 million should be spent on the said 14 km. 
The rest should go elsewhere - like me, for example. 


.


----------



## Qaabus

Water crossings are expensive. The A15 will have to cross this:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah with a tunnel. And you know it, first they propose a bridge, which is considered to have too much impact on the surroundings, so they demand a tunnel. Once you agree to that, they want the rest of the route to be depressed. Once you agree to that too, they demand the entire route to be in a tunnel. :nuts:

Just build the damn thing at regular level with a tunnel. If we start with depressed freeways in rural areas, where does it end?


----------



## Slagathor

The problem is bridges are usually not much cheaper than tunnels in this country. In most places, rivers run lower than the surrounding land. In this country, you gotta go up to reach the river


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A lesser known pain-in-the-ass interchange is Hooipolder, where the A59 is controlled by traffic signals. This is especially a problem for traffic from west to north (A59 to A27). The A16-A59 via Breda-West serves as an alternate for A58-A27 via Breda-East, especially in case of incidents.


----------



## Timon91

I usually pass there a couple of times a year, but I've never been jammed there since I normally pass in weekends. You do hear the name on traffic information quite often though. Are there any plans to upgrade it to a cloverleaf? There seems to be enough space for it.


----------



## Kaasbroodje

Yes there are plans! I think they will build a new cloverleaf interchange when they are going to rebuild the A27 highway. I surely hoop it will happen, today there was a traffic jam on the A59 from Zonzeel to Hooipolder, so that is the whole section between the A16 and A27.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Timon91 said:


> There seems to be enough space for it.


No, there isn't. Even without C/D lanes, there will be a ROW of about 250 meters needed from the center of the interchange towards the northwest. Which means it ends just about on top of those homes.

I never understand such idiocy, those homes were build way after 1967 - 1969 when this intersection opened. (A27 in 1967, A59 in 1969), no vision in that place. 

However, it's only one quadrant of a possible cloverleaf that's tight in space, the other 3 quadrants aren't a problem. They could build a direct flyover from east to south to solve those problems. A flyover is probably a bit over the top considering traffic volumes for that relation, but necessary to make this interchange entirely grade-separated.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The A12 in Den Haag (The Hague). This road has several buildings on top of it.


----------



## Timon91

That's really an "urban expressway". It's also the end of the A12 (untill they start building a road tunnel to England )


----------



## Snuck

the end of the A12 is 1 of my favorites of highways in holland, the best for me is still the A4 between exit nieuw vennep and Badhoevedorp, its so damn wide, and still jams there, should be upgraded to 2x6 or more, but thats just a dream that never will happen ^^ and ofcourse A10 Amsterdam south, like that 1 allot to


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Traffic congestion on A4 between Schiphol and Burgerveen are due to the adjacent roads or accidents. The 2x5 section is wide enough to carry the 165,000 - 185,000 vehicles per day (Los Angeles freeways have up to 280,000 on 10 lanes). The problem is the A4 narrows down from 10 to 4 lanes within 2 kilometers. The A44 doesn't absorb enough traffic to alleviate this problem, the A4 near Roelofarendsveen has 4 lanes and carries nearly 110,000 vehicles per day. To the north, the 6 lane section between Badhoevedorp and Amsterdam is actually busier than the 10 lane section; 190,000 AADT.


----------



## Timon91

Same thing for the Coentunnel, it's 2×2 without shoulders but carries 100,000+ vehicles a day. Luckily they're building a second tunnel now


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Video: A1 Amsterdam - Hilversum*

This video follows the first 25 kilometers eastbound from Amsterdam towards interchange Eemnes near Hilversum. Seen in the footage is one of the busiest roads in the Netherlands, considering capacity. 190,000 on 7 lanes and 110,000 on 4 lanes.

watch here in HD

or below:


----------



## BigMike90

what also would help if people use the available space on the right. Driving behaviour would also help in preventing traffic jams. Als in! RECHTS HOUDEN!!!!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I made a new first post


----------



## Slagathor

BigMike90 said:


> what also would help if people use the available space on the right. Driving behaviour would also help in preventing traffic jams. Als in! RECHTS HOUDEN!!!!


You heard that German joke about our NL sticker? "Nur Links"


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another batch of new signage:


----------



## Verso

Does anyone else think 'Breda' is a bit odd name for a city? I wanna say, it's a female name; I know a few Bredas.


----------



## Coccodrillo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breda_(disambiguation)


----------



## Jeroen669

^^ Dutch wikipedia says this:



> De rivieren Mark en Aa of Weerijs komen samen in Breda. Voordat de Aa in de Mark vloeide, vertakte die nog eerst in twee aparte stroompjes; de Donk en de Gampel. Dit gebeurde ter hoogte van een s-vormige donk, wat later de Haagdijk zou worden. [2] Toch sprak men over de Aa. Aa is een afgeleide van het Oudgermaanse woord ahwô, verwant met het Latijnse aqua. Het betekende oorspronkelijk water. In Nederland zijn er veel rivieren en rivierachtige wateren die deze of een daarvan afgeleide naam hebben. [3] De naam Breda is afgeleid van 'Brede Aa'. Het ligt voor de hand dat daarmee werd verwezen naar de verbreding van de Aa op het punt waar die in de Mark uitmondde [4]. Het is wel opmerkelijk, dat de rivier de Aa de naam van de stad heeft bepaald, in plaats van de Mark. In 1125 wordt er voor het eerst melding gemaakt van een nederzetting, die als Breda wordt aangeduid.


In short: Breda is a contraction of 'Brede Aa'. Breed = wide in english. The city has been formed by the point where two little rivers, the Mark and the Aa, join together.


----------



## Timon91

Verso said:


> Does anyone else think 'Breda' is a bit odd name for a city? I wanna say, it's a female name; I know a few Bredas.


There are many more weird names in the Netherlands and Belgium


----------



## Slagathor

Verso said:


> Does anyone else think 'Breda' is a bit odd name for a city? I wanna say, it's a female name; I know a few Bredas.


A woman with the name of Breda? Sounds awful. Are they fat angry lesbians?


----------



## Kaasbroodje

I think Breda sounds a bit Italian/Spanish. There are two villages called Breda in Italy and Spain. Oh verso, Brenda is a girls name, not a really nice one though (I think). Breda is also streetlanguage for the word brother.


----------



## Verso

It's an old name, if it helps.


----------



## BigMike90

Slagathor said:


> You heard that German joke about our NL sticker? "Nur Links"


whats even worse is that a large number of idiot drivers refuse to use the extra rush hour lanes. So I completely understand that building more lanes has no value. Because people will just keep in the "safe" middle lane, as they are incompetent to switch lanes if necessary when your on the far right lane. 

and yes I am frustrated :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Even if only the trucks use the shoulders, that's a big improvement for traffic flow.


----------



## Timon91

AFAIK it's prohibited for trucks to overtake during rush hours.


----------



## Palance

It is, but some trucks ignore that, unfortunately


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It depends if a local passing ban is in effect. It's not like passing is automatically banned for trucks during rush hour.


----------



## Jeroen669

Timon91 said:


> AFAIK it's prohibited for trucks to overtake during rush hours.


Only on the busier 2X2 motorways...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Construction of the Prins Clausplein stack interchange:









Considering the cars, this was somewhere in the 80's.


----------



## Timon91

It looks really :ancient: 

The A10 east is closed this weekend, between interchange Watergraafsmeer and Amstel (the other side is open). It was also like this a few weeks ago, I wonder what they are doing and how many more weekends it will be closed.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

New signs on A1 Oldenzaal (direction Osnabrück)


----------



## Timon91

The last concrete stretch of motorway in the Netherlands. They're repaving parts of it at the moment.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, the section between Interchange Buren and Hengelo-Noord has been repaved. The section between Hengelo-Noord and the German border is still concrete. The section from the Dutch border to Kreuz Schüttorf is even worse concrete.


----------



## koloite

Timon91 said:


> The last concrete stretch of motorway in the Netherlands. They're repaving parts of it at the moment.


The whole section will be repaved. It should be finished by October 2010.
The complete calendar can be found at http://www.rijkswaterstaat.nl/wegen/plannen_en_projecten/a_wegen/a1/a1_knooppunt_buren_duitse_grens/planning/


----------



## bleetz

Chris: what is the point of the peak lane in this video? Why would they be closing it on a regular basis?


----------



## Jeroen669

^^ Too narrow.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, these peak hour lanes (also: shoulder running) are allowed because they are meant to relieve peak hours only. However, since peak hours are now almost all day long, they are also open during most of the day on some motorways.

This one had a problem because they weren't allowed to open it before 7 am because of noise. (the Dutch noise hours are 7 - 19, 19 - 23 and 23 - 7, so open it before 7 make it fall in a different noise hour, with a higher noise level (+10 dB)). So traffic jams popped up around 6.15 am, and traffic began moving again at 7 am because then they could finally open the left shoulder to traffic. Completely nuts :nuts:


----------



## BigMike90

bleetz said:


> Chris: what is the point of the peak lane in this video? Why would they be closing it on a regular basis?


stay left, yeah just stay left. Ok im staying left, no need to use the free space on the right. Yeah left is comfy, im staying here. Left is better. Im afraid of the right lane. Left is easier, just hanging there. My love for the left lane is like a 80 year marriage. Love the left lane. Really good lane, left lane is the best.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The police was doing speed checks along the A27. It resulted in a longer-than-usual 20 km traffic jam which is still not dissipated at the moment (11.30 am) hno:

Why don't they stop such stupid things if severe congestion occurs hno:


----------



## Coccodrillo

Chris, do you have photos or videos of the Afsluitdijk and Houtribdijk? These and the urban motorways (A16?) are the most interesting roads in the Netherlands.

I have only found these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEpQqiLYyyA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIgplv9Nzpc


----------



## bleetz

ChrisZwolle said:


> No, these peak hour lanes (also: shoulder running) are allowed because they are meant to relieve peak hours only. However, since peak hours are now almost all day long, they are also open during most of the day on some motorways.


So they build a whole new lane and then close it just because of slightly higher noise levels? Insanity! Wouldn't noise barriers make more sense?


----------



## snowman159

Slagathor said:


> So get a different job. I would.
> 
> I just don't understand people who willingly spend that much time in traffic. I did it for a few months cause I lived in Zeeland and I had a job in the Hague. It was terrible, I felt like I was wasting my life.
> 
> So I moved.


There are innumerable reasons that influence people in making that decision. Kids, family, school districts, living costs, lifestyle, friends, just to name a few. Not everyone has the same needs and the same priorities. Life is full of trade-offs and unless you're extremely rich, you can't have everything. If someone chooses to commute, short or long distance, they probably don't do it because they enjoy sitting in traffic (and neither because they are idiots - which you seem to be implying)

A little more open-mindedness wouldn't hurt!


----------



## Jeroen669

Slagathor said:


> So get a different job. I would.


Yeah, fortunately it's so easy to get a new job in these times...

Wake up. :|


----------



## berlinwroclaw

*A2 Eindhoven bypass*

Motorway A2 from Eindhoven North till Eindhoven South will be widened from 2X3 to at least 4x2.
Local traffic will be separated from A2 motorway by an N2 expressway.
Photos taken 1st October 2009 from the Northern section of A2 at Eindhoven.


Map A2 and A58 Eindhoven. 









Junction Ekkersweijer A2 X A58. A2 goes from bottom to the right.









Junction Batadorp A2 X A58 in southern direction









Detail junction Batadorp A2 X A58 in southern direction. Note that there are reservations for 4X4 in this section (16 lanes). Bottom and top lanes are N2 expressway, other lanes are A2 motorway.









A2 junction Batadorp to exit Eindhoven-Airport


----------



## Timon91

Nice photos  I assume that you were on a flight to Eindhoven?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The A2 near Eindhoven is now a tie with the widest freeway in the Netherlands (A16). Unfortunately, it's temporary. I believe the final layout will be reduced to 10 lanes.


----------



## Robosteve

ChrisZwolle said:


> The A2 near Eindhoven is now a tie with the widest freeway in the Netherlands (A16). Unfortunately, it's temporary. I believe the final layout will be reduced to 10 lanes.


Why would they reduce the number of lanes? Doesn't it make more sense to leave them open once they're there, rather than waiting for traffic volumes to increase and then rebuilding those extra lanes?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The EIA only allowed for 8 - 10 lanes (4x2) and 2+3+3+2...

Increasing capacity is not-done according to the environmentalists. Imagine, the idea of a good freeway! It should be jammed all day so people will go less with their cars (they think).

However, 8 lanes will do for now. Eindhoven is not Los Angeles or São Paulo. It wasn't until the 1990's that the A2 was widened from 4 to 6 lanes. I would think it would be better to widen it to 10 lanes now at least. I think it's stupid to design the express lanes with 2x2 lanes only. 

However, the local lanes will not receive motorway status, but they will be a national road (N2) with 2x2 lanes and without shoulders and a speed limit of 80 km/h. I think it's quite a waste to do this kind of expansion costing over a billion euros for the end result as planned.


----------



## Coccodrillo

ChrisZwolle said:


> I hear about people driving 2.5 hours for 30 - 40 kms every day around Utrecht (as was today). (some guy I know works in the UMC (Utrecht medical center) in Utrecht always has colleagues coming hours late)





ChrisZwolle said:


> Increasing capacity is not-done according to the environmentalists. Imagine, the idea of a good freeway! It should be jammed all day so people will go less with their cars (they think).


If people take hours for 30 km, then environmentalists are not totally wrong...

The UMC... http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...088235,5.17396&spn=0.017746,0.038495&t=k&z=15


----------



## 909

Coccodrillo said:


> If people take hours for 30 km, then environmentalists are not totally wrong...


They are not even wrong! They are responsible for the lack of good infrastructure.


----------



## Coccodrillo

If the need arise for 12 lane (long) motorways, and even them they are often jamemd, yes, there is something wrong...


----------



## Timon91

It's just not possible to get people to commute using PT, but environmentalists just don't want to accept that. When most people commute by car in a tiny country with over 16 million inhabitants the motorways need to be wide. They aren't (thanks to environmentalists and NIMBY's), so it's often congested. IMO the best we can do is invest in motorways and electrical cars instead of useless new railway lines that have cost way too much money. They built a bloody 8 km long HSR tunnel to protect the wide view in the Green Heart. Thanks to who? Environmentalists and NIMBY's. By the way, the Dutch nature is nothing. It seems like every piece of forest has become a protected area. Thanks to who? Yes, the environmentalists. Of course, some pieces of forest in a tiny busy country is good, but it shouldn't stop vital infrastructure projects.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Coccodrillo said:


> If the need arise for 12 lane (long) motorways, and even them they are often jamemd, yes, there is something wrong...


You sound like an environmentalist yourself... Nobody's talking about 12 lane motorways here, even less about them being jammed. The first task would be to widen those aged 4 lane motorways to 6 or 8 lanes within the Randstad. 

There's a backlog of 25 years in road widening. The current motorway network is suited for a population of 13 - 14 million. Yet we have 16.5 million and growing towards 17.5 million. 

We can't afford ourselves such a bad road system. Note that there is no alternative to the motorway, no local roads, no national roads, and no reasonable alternate in public transport too. 

Note that our public transport is already very complex and serves every town in the Netherlands. Not twice a day, but every hour or even more, also in rural areas. Also; our PT is very busy with absolutely no capacity for even a marginal amount of drivers. Trains travel with the frequency of a subway in some areas, and you're still being transported like cattle.


----------



## Coccodrillo

ChrisZwolle said:


> You sound like an environmentalist yourself...


No I'm not...I think that exceeding in both direction is wrong.



Timon91 said:


> When most people commute by car in a tiny country with over 16 million inhabitants the motorways need to be wide.





ChrisZwolle said:


> Note that our public transport is already very complex and serves every town in the Netherlands. Not twice a day, but every hour or even more, also in rural areas. Also; our PT is very busy with absolutely no capacity for even a marginal amount of drivers. Trains travel with the frequency of a subway in some areas, and you're still being transported like cattle.


The solution is then improving public transport. It uses less space and in _high density_ regions it is more efficient. As commuters often are alone in their car they use a lot of space for few people. A lane can carry 2.200 vehicles/hour, then 3 lanes carry 8.000 people (at 1.2 people per vehicle). A railway with trains with 1.100 _seats_ each running every 5 minutes can transport 13.200 people per hour in one third of space.

This doesn't mean that road have to be neglected (the famous second Coen Tunnel and other projects solving some bottlenecks IMHO are ok) but that instead of enlarge a 2x3 motorway to 10 lanes it is better to try improving public transport.

About your HSL line Amsterdam-Rotterdam-Belgium: I have read that trains using it (also the IC, not only Thalys) will require a supplement and reservation for places. It isn't a good idea to attract passengers.



Timon91 said:


> Of course, some pieces of forest in a tiny busy country is good, but it shouldn't stop vital infrastructure projects.


I agree 100%...also about the Groene Hart and other more or less useless tunnels (they are not only in The Netherlands).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Netherlands is NOT dense. Yes, on a country's average, but not urban, because our urban areas are spread out into hundreds of non-continuous towns and cities. 

They are improving PT for over 20 years now, favoring it over roads. And what have we reached? Nothing, traffic congestion went sky-high, and PT is artificially filled with students by introducing free public transport for them. PT is not efficient in the Netherlands, and never will be for the majority of the commuting relations.


----------



## Timon91

Coccodrillo said:


> About your HSL line Amsterdam-Rotterdam-Belgium: I have read that trains using it (also the IC, not only Thalys) will require a supplement and reservation for places. It isn't a good idea to attract passengers.


That's right. The supplement for a one-way ticket Amsterdam-Rotterdam is €7,40! That means that the full price for a one-way ticket is higher then €20. I hope that there won't be as many passengers as they expect, so they lower the supplement prices. A reservation isn't obligatory, by the way.


----------



## Coccodrillo

ChrisZwolle said:


> They are improving PT for over 20 years now, favoring it over roads. And what have we reached? Nothing, traffic congestion went sky-high.


You said both that trains are very well used and passengers don't find seats, and travel standing also for "long" trips, and that roads are always jammed. Improving PT is nearly always the best solution in situations like this. Nearly all tramways and metro lines built in the world in the last 30 years carry more passenger than the number predicted before their construction, and always attract new passangers that previously used their car.



ChrisZwolle said:


> And PT is artificially filled with students by introducing free public transport for them.


If students are encouraged to use PT, they will use less their cars, so reducing traffic. This isn't a bad idea...



Timon91 said:


> That's right. The supplement for a one-way ticket Amsterdam-Rotterdam is €7,40! That means that the full price for a one-way ticket is higher then €20. I hope that there won't be as many passengers as they expect, so they lower the supplement prices. A reservation isn't obligatory, by the way.


HSL should not be used only to shorten travel times, but mainly to increase capacity.

The space freed from Rotterdam-Amsterdam passenger should be used to increase trains stopping at, say, Den Haag/Leiden and Gouda/Utrecht. But if prices are too high this doesn't happen. The price between Milano and Bologna via the new HSL is 37 € for 1h05 of travel time by high speed train, and 3h00 and 12€ for regional trains. There are still a lot of passenger that still use regional trains because they are cheaper. That is, citizens paid billions for a new HSL with less traffic than possible. I hope that for NL will be different.

http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/map.php?file=maps/benelux/benelux.gif

[this discussion is, again, OT - this thread is quite big - is it possible to split it?]


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Coccodrillo said:


> You said both that trains are very well used and passengers don't find seats, and travel standing also for "long" trips, and that roads are always jammed. Improving PT is nearly always the best solution in situations like this. Nearly all tramways and metro lines built in the world in the last 30 years carry more passenger than the number predicted before their construction, and always attract new passangers that previously used their car.


You think too simplistic. Yes, you can expand railroads to 4 tracks to increase capacity, unfortunatly, this costs billions and has NO EFFECT whatsoever on road usage. The traffic volumes on A2 between Utrecht and Amsterdam didn't decrease after the Utrecht - Amsterdam railroad was 4-tracked. The 4-tracking of Amsterdam - Utrecht cost € 1 billion for 30 km.

There are a few problems when it comes to PT in the Netherlands.

1) you need additional transport to reach your destination, before and after the trip. This adds greatly to the travel times.
2) Politicians stare themselves blind at travel times between railroad stations, yet this represents almost 0% of the trips. Commutes don't start and end at a station.
3) The travel speed of trains isn't a problem. Waiting times and additional transport is. Increasing the speed from 140 to 160 km/h by investing billions in additional safety systems is a waste.
4) 90% of the trips is twice as fast during rush hour with a car (or bicycle in a city), according to a government survey carried out by the Central Bureau of Planning.
5) There is limited funding. With 2 billion, you can 4-track a railroad with no decrease in traffic congestion whatsoever, or widen a significant stretch of freeway with the results that nearly all congestion is gone. What do you choose?
6) The bicycle is almost always faster within urban areas.
7) PT is only faster towards city centers or long-distance trips. Neither are prevalent in the Dutch commuting patterns.
8) PT carries only 10% of the mileage but costs the same as roads. Hence, the price for PT is 10 times higher on a per-traveler base. 
9) Most paying travelers are discounted somewhere between 60 and 90%, except when you're traveling first class without any reduction.
10) Over 90% of the travelers with PT have no daily access to a car. That's why PT doesn't solve traffic problems. 
11) PT has mostly a different target audience than road transport, the reasons are mentioned above.

* note: I strictly argue about this in the relation between trains and roads. I don't say investing in trains to relieve railroad congestion is a waste. I only think it's a waste when it's an excuse to do nothing about the roads. 



> If students are encouraged to use PT, they will use less their cars, so reducing traffic. This isn't a bad idea...


With fuel prices around € 1,40 monthly road tax about € 40, insurance about € 40 and the excise duties on cars of 42%, cars are generally unaffordable for students. The only thing PT has managed is to get students off their bikes, into tax-sponsored transport (e.g. PT).


----------



## Coccodrillo

1) It depends where you have to go. City centre to city centre trips may be faster by train.
2) Ok.
3) Absolutely true. Sometimes it is faster doing 300 km with an HST than the 70 km to reach the stations. This is something Italian railways don't understand, putting an HST every 15 minutes between Milan and Rome but doing nothing to reach their stations from nearby towns.
4) Do you have details? Or graphics like these about Switzerland? http://www.litra.ch/Les_transports_en_chiffres.html
5) I choose the railway, if in a big city (I know some examples for Milan where quadrupling tracks had a positive effect). But it depends from the situation.
6) Bicycles are quite small...so allow their transport on trains it is (would be?) a good idea.
7) PT is faster to city centres, but also other trisp can be improved, if politics want.
8) Again - do you have more statistics? 1.000 people doing 50 km rural areas and 10.000 doing 5 km are both 50.000 passengers.km - but they aren't comparable...
9) This isn't at all a bad idea. 
10) PT solve traffic problems if well planned. And it isn't always expensive. I know a railway line in Milan where traffic rose from 10.000 to 40.000 passenger/day by simply adding new trains (one every 15 minutes instead one every 60-120 minutes), without new tracks. It uses a railway opened in 1849. This is cheaper than adding lanes and avoids 30.000 car trips.
11) It is true in rural areas, not always true in urban areas.



> You think too simplistic. Yes, you can expand railroads to 4 tracks to increase capacity, unfortunatly, this costs billions and has NO EFFECT whatsoever on road usage.


This means that there is a great demand for transport. Here new roads may be a solution, but only after having tried with PT.



> With fuel prices around € 1,40 monthly road tax about € 40, insurance about € 40 and the excise duties on cars of 42%, cars are generally unaffordable for students. The only thing PT has managed is to get students off their bikes, into tax-sponsored transport (e.g. PT).


High fuel prices aren't that bad if they discourage the use of cars. Where goes the money of fuel taxes?


----------



## Jeroen669

Coccodrillo said:


> 1) It depends where you have to go. City centre to city centre trips may be faster by train.


Most people do not live in city centers.



> 5) I choose the railway, if in a big city (I know some examples for Milan where quadrupling tracks had a positive effect). But it depends from the situation.


Making 4-track railways doesn't solve jams, not even a bit. In general railway widening isn't bad to keep up with the growing number of passengers, though. 



> Bicycles are quite small...so allow their transport on trains it is (would be?) a good idea.


Taking bicycles in trains is forbidden during rush hour since they actually use relatively a lot of space (and time) in packed trains. AFAIK it costs €6 to take a normal bike in a train. Folding bikes (which can be carried in any time for free) are quite popular though.



> 7) PT is faster to city centres, but also other trisp can be improved, if politics want.


But the less centric the PT network is, the more it costs to improve it. You cannot make high frequency PT connections to large industrial zones when nobody uses it. That's unaffordable.



> This means that there is a great demand for transport. Here new roads may be a solution, but only after having tried with PT.


You'd think we never tried? Again, PT is NOT that bad here if you take our city densities in consideration, but at some point it's just harder (up to impossible) to get more people in PT here. That's a fact you just have to accept.



> High fuel prices aren't that bad if they discourage the use of cars. Where goes the money of fuel taxes?


If you take the total costs of a car, then PT is practicly always cheaper. But still most people use the car. This shows that in general travel times are more important than the price of transport.


----------



## Coccodrillo

^^ I have nothing to add. Only that it would be interesting to have more detailed statistics.



ChrisZwolle said:


> I hear about people driving 2.5 hours for 30 - 40 kms every day around Utrecht (as was today). (some guy I know works in the UMC (Utrecht medical center) in Utrecht always has colleagues coming hours late)


Like this University: http://maps.google.ch/maps?f=q&sour...52.086495,5.176792&spn=0.017774,0.038409&z=15

Form where people come from? Why these "colleagues" don't (or can't) use PT? If this University had been built near a railway would they have used PT instead of cars? Can this be solved building tramways or metro lines?



> Most people do not live in city centers.


Can this be solved building parkings near railway stations instead of city centres or unviersities?


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## ChrisZwolle

A76 near Geleen. Dynamic passing ban.



















by sky-eye


----------



## da_scotty

This is a good and easy solution!
Dutch motorways are starting to get more german though!!

de nederlandse autobahn!!


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## ChrisZwolle

Stack Interchange Prins Clausplein seen from a Den Haag scraper:


----------



## Koesj

^^ That's my desktop right now


----------



## xlchris

@ChrisZwolle - Would be nice to say who made the pic  Link


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## ChrisZwolle

Another new set of signs @ exit Oldenzaal-Zuid (A1) westbound.


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## PLH

3rd pic: mild speed bumps? If so, how they're attached?

Also, what is written in bottom corners of the signs? Name od the maufacturing company?


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## Timon91

Nice pics, Chris! It's quite close from where I live now  Quite weird that they sign Twente Airport Enschede, since it was closed a few years ago and it's only used for gliding.



PLH said:


> 3rd pic: mild speed bumps? If so, how they're attached?


Those bumps are to warn you that a lane closure is ahead. I don't know anything about how they are attached though.



PLH said:


> Also, what is written in bottom corners of the signs? Name od the maufacturing company?


It says _Rijkswaterstaat_, the organization that maintains most infrastructure. The old signs said _ANWB_, the Dutch motorist organization.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

PLH said:


> 3rd pic: mild speed bumps? If so, how they're attached?


Not exactly mild, they are the last resort to divert vehicles to the other lane who don't pay attention to all the signs.


----------



## mappero

Nice pictures Chris. Every weekend I drive from Groningen to Eindhoven and back. For Dutch conditions is a long drive :d During peak hours it's take me almost 4 hours  But on off peak - 2,5h  Of course if I can driver 110 km/h on narrow left lane in Zwolle 
I can see more new signs on motorways mostly on A28. I prefer the old style. New style IMO is too German...


----------



## Des

The Dutch province of North-Holland is looking into finishing the missing link between the A8 and A9 motorways between Zaanstad and Heemskerk. It could be finished as early as 2017. It would be a big relieve for the B-roads in the area and create a more robust motorway network in the north part of the Randstad.


----------



## Timon91

Ah, the A8. I only went from Amsterdam to Uitgeest once using the A8 and the N-roads when the A8 stops after Zaanstad. An extention of the A8 would be a great idea, although most N-roads (N246 and N203, but these roads also have the name N8) are 2×2. They do have traffic lights though, slowing down traffic significantly. Since I've only been there on a quiet sunday, I don't know how bad traffic is between Uitgeest and Zaanstad.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's a significant missing link in the Amsterdam area. The next east-west motorway is the A9 south of Amsterdam, and there isn't an east-west motorway north of it, despite Noord-Holland is still some 60 km along A7 north. 

However, I doubt if the current plans will actually extend the A8 towards Heemskerk, even though _Rijkswaterstaat_ is in possession of the alignment since the 1960's. I'm afraid they will come up with some substandard upgrade of the current N-roads. It's too hard to do it good at once unfortunately.


----------



## pilspaus

Btw, does anyone have some pics or info about the widening of the A4 from exit Nieuw Vennep towards Leiden and further? u can click on a webcam: http://www.fileindex.nl/ , lanes have shifted but cant see nothing else, just very curious how its gonna be in the future  . Thoughed it would be widened from 2x2 to 2x3, but not shure.
Thnx in advance


----------



## BigMike90

pilspaus said:


> Btw, does anyone have some pics or info about the widening of the A4 from exit Nieuw Vennep towards Leiden and further? u can click on a webcam: http://www.fileindex.nl/ , lanes have shifted but cant see nothing else, just very curious how its gonna be in the future  . Thoughed it would be widened from 2x2 to 2x3, but not shure.
> Thnx in advance


isnt that impossible... i think its too narrow over there. Otherwise they would have done that already by now.


----------



## Timon91

It is going to be widened to 2×3, AFAIK they have already started


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## ChrisZwolle

They are building a new Ringvaart aqueduct near Roelofarendsveen, as well as the narrow Leiderdorp section. As far as I know, they intend to bring the entire Amsterdam - Delft section to 2x3 minimal.


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## pilspaus

if am correct they already placed a extra slab of pavement on the stretch from Leiden towards Burgerveen so a shift of lanes is possible then, last couple of weekends that part of the A4 whas closed due roadworks, after that lanes where shifted . so its possible for shure


----------



## Palance

Last Tuesday, I made a little roadtrip in the beautiful (empty) southwestern part of the Netherlands, the provinces of Zeeland (empty but a lot of water) and the southern part of Zuid-Holland.

Enjoy!

Click here for the album

Global Route


Preview:


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## Verso

^^ Nice, a lot of water indeed.  Are there more wind turbines in the Netherlands or Germany? (taking into account their different sizes)


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## ChrisZwolle

Germany I think. Once you cross the border in northern or eastern Netherlands, Germany is full of wind turbines. Unfortunately, they managed to ruin the northern Sauerland with it


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## Timon91

Yeah, when I'm at university and the weather sucks, you can barely see anything from the 11th floor. But when it clears up, suddenly a whole row of wind turbines appear :lol:


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## Verso

Timon91 said:


> Yeah, when I'm at university and the weather sucks, you can barely see anything from the 11th floor. But when it clears up, suddenly a whole row of windmills appear :lol:


Wind turbines, not windmills. I believe the Netherlands is fuller of the latter than Germany.


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## Timon91

Oops. In Dutch it's officially called "windturbine", but most people (including me) just say "windmolen", which means "windmill". That's why it gets mixed up all the time. Translation error


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## ChrisZwolle

Horrible rush hour in the Netherlands due to rainy weather. Over 1.100 kilometers of queue...


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## ChrisZwolle

Agreement has been found over the ringroad of Utrecht.

A27 on the east side of Utrecht will be widened (currently 8 lanes, but only 4 through lanes). This link is vital, because other roads are city roads of Utrecht or local roads not suited for significant traffic.

A12 on the south side of Utrecht will be widened (currently 10 lanes on a 2+3+3+2 setup). 

N230 will be turned into a motorway on the north side of Utrecht. This will significantly strengthen the flexibility of the road network in an Amsterdam/Amersfoort/Utrecht perspective.

There are also some rumours about a new motorway west of Utrecht between A2 and A12, but I'm not sure about that, as the A2 is currently being widened already.


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## Timon91

The motorway through Amelisweerd is cancelled due to environmentalists, only present motoways will be widened. Construction work starts in 2016 hno:

At least, this is what they said on the news, so I don't know whether it's correct or not.


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## ChrisZwolle

Some more details about the Utrecht plans:

A12 will be widened from 10 to 12 lanes. Current AADT 220,000
A27 will be widened from 8 to 14 lanes. Current AADT 200,000
N230 will be upgraded to controlled access expressway with 4 lanes

Earlier messages about an A2-A12 connection west of Utrecht were false, as usual by the estupidos at NOS broadcasting.


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## peezet

I think the A28 Utrecht - Amersfoort needs widening too. Its 2x2 and won't be able to handle the amount of traffic that comes from the A27.


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## ChrisZwolle

That's right. It needs 2x4, but I'll be happy if it will be 2x3. Can you believe this motorway didn't exist until 1986?


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## Fargo Wolf

Question: In some of the pics, there is a green stripe between the center lines. What is it there for?


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## Ni3lS

^ I think it means you're not able to pass cars in both directions. I still have a bunch of dutch highway pics on my photobucket. Should start posting here soon.


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## panda80

^^overtaking is not permitted.


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## ChrisZwolle

No,

The green line is only added to show this is an "Autoweg". (fast traffic road). The white lines still show if you may pass or not. 

This means passing can be allowed with a solid green marking in the center!

Here's an example. The first part has a passing ban. Further ahead, you can see the white center lines are broken instead of solid, and passing is allowed there:


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## Verso

Waste of color.


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## Slagathor

We like it, shadap


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## ChrisZwolle

Boomtown Zwolle


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## Ni3lS

Oh yesh. Zwolle is awesome!


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## Ni3lS

*some pics*

Excuse me for the dirty windshield.




































































































New signs!


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## Timon91

Did you just fly back to the Netherlands for a day or so to make these pics?


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## ChrisZwolle

Why should someone in the damn Randstad pay more because the damn government is so damn incompetent not being able to widen a damn freeway for a damn 30 years? Talk about damn fair.

(word has just lost all meaning)


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## pilspaus

I agree with Criss, why do we have to pay more, let the government widen the highways, most highways are on the max capicity, let them do something about that, and in these times its even good, creates jobs, saves the economy a shitload of money becouse ppl will eventually stand less in those damn traffic jams.
Spend another 30 or 40 Billion euros, will pay off eventually anyways.


----------



## Kaasbroodje

Fargo Wolf said:


> Question: In some of the pics, there is a green stripe between the center lines. What is it there for?


If a green line appears in the centre of the road, there is a speed limit of 100 km/h. They have done this to cut down the costs of roadsigns.


----------



## ABRob

ChrisZwolle said:


> Why should someone in the damn Randstad pay more because the damn government is so damn incompetent not being able to widen a damn freeway for a damn 30 years? Talk about damn fair.


:lol:
DAMN! 

So roadgeeking will be expensive in the future...hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kaasbroodje said:


> If a green line appears in the centre of the road, there is a speed limit of 100 km/h. They have done this to cut down the costs of roadsigns.


Road markings never overrule the road signs though. If there is a sign that says 80 km/h on a road with a green center marking, the speed limit is 80, and not 100.


----------



## 54°26′S 3°24′E

ChrisZwolle said:


> *Tolls in the Netherlands*
> 
> Tonight, the plans have been unveiled of a toll scheme in the Netherlands with an introduction in 2012.
> 
> A GPS-based toll will be implemented, and people will be charged according to distance, time and location. This means a drive during rush hour around Amsterdam will be expensive, but a nightly drive in Drenthe will be cheap.


This system is probably fair, but also very scary and very Orwellian. I don't hope and think surveilance at this scale would ever be accepted even in Norway. Why just don't add fuel tax instead, and add some toll points in the major cities if the goal is to reduce rush hour problems and increase income and / or reduce overall car use?


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## Timon91

^^There are many entrances to the major cities. It's difficult to implement a closed toll system. Furthermore, traffic jams will move to other (toll-free) locations and not disappear.

The system is fair, but not in the way how they're going to do it here. People living in the Randstad will have to pay much more money than they're doing now. Furthermore, it's scary that somewhere there is a record of where you have been driving. Same for PT. At the moment I have a paper (plastified) student PT card with which I can travel in most PT in the Netherlands for free (during weekends). Next year this paper card disappears and I get the so called "Studenten OV-chipkaart", with which I have to check in when I start my journey and check out when I'm done. Like the Oyster Card in London. Somewhere there is also going to be a record of where I've been travelling with my PT card.


----------



## 54°26′S 3°24′E

I doubt a toll ring with extra rush hour tarrif is more complicated in the Dutch cities than for instance London or the Nordic cities where such schemes are used and have significantly reduced rush hour problems. There is a big difference between knowing that you have passed a given point (or entered a bus or train at some station) and knowing your exact route of travel at all times. In addition, I guess you can always pay your PT with cash if you want to? In Norwegian toll schemes you have the option of having your payment records deleted immediately after the amount has been deducted from your account in the toll company; in practice right after passing the toll point. The problem with this option is of course that you cannot complain afterwards if you think you are charged too much, as no record of the transaction exists.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The proposed Dutch toll scheme is completely different from the London and Stockholm congestion charges. 

First, all of the Netherlands falls under the tax, not just city centers, second, traffic problems are mostly on motorways, and historic downtowns do not attract as much traffic as say the city of London or central Stockholm.


----------



## 54°26′S 3°24′E

Still it should be possible to tax general traffic (all areas) using added fuel tax and problematic areas using toll points. If the problems are concentrated to the major highways rather than urban areas the complexity should be lower than say London.


----------



## cjav

This is just another method to further invade on the privacy of innocent civilians and of course a way to make scandelous amount of extra tax revenue over the backs of working people. It is an absolute disgrace.


----------



## BigMike90

They need more money to buy expensive fighterjets like the JSF, bailout more bank fatsacks, increase the income for the queen and entourage and of course the hardworking citizen is getting screwed every way. 

I heard in the new system if you drive more than 18000k a year its already more expensive, fucking joke. The costs almost double every 5 years, so in 2030 you will be paying 1 euro per km. 

People should massively refuse to apply the new system, than it will fail. 

But most probably people will just vote the CDA back in, fucking joke.


----------



## so0okol

How much is a highway in the Nederlands ???


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## ChrisZwolle

about 2,400 kilometers. I assumed you meant "motorway".


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## Slagathor

BigMike90 said:


> People should massively refuse to apply the new system, than it will fail.
> 
> But most probably people will just vote the CDA back in, fucking joke.


Biggest mystery of my life is why people keep voting for those idiots. And it's not just a handful either.

I don't think I'll ever figure it out.


----------



## Muttie

ChrisZwolle said:


> about 2,400 kilometers. I assumed you meant "motorway".


Hmm, I always thought it was much more than that.


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## Slagathor

^^ The North and the Southwest are largely void of motorways.


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## ChrisZwolle

BigMike90 said:


> But most probably people will just vote the CDA back in, fucking joke.


CDA isn't so much the problem. They had to do this because they made the coalition with the PvdA and one of the key points in forming the coalition was introducing the kilometer charge. CDA already said they aren't such a big proponent of the km charge anymore.

The PvdA is the real evil, finance minister Wouter Bos is the biggest liar in the government, he said that most drivers would profit from the km charge. Yes, with the 3 cent km introduction charge, it may be, but not with the 6,7 cent per km in 2018, a 37% increase per year. That's about 10 - 15 times inflation...

Especially the working class will be hit, because the people who will be cheaper off are those who buy a brand new car every 3 years, or don't drive much, like the elderly.


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## Slagathor

PvdA really hate cars, don't they? First prime minister Kok with his stupid quarter that he never gave back and now this.


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## ChrisZwolle

Another issue is the fact that the monthly road tax is gonna disappear. The provinces normally get a significant portion of that, and they have already announced that they are gonna charge that in a different way.

So the monthly road tax doesn't disappear at all, it will only get a different name. 

This is without a doubt, the greatest scam the Netherlands has seen in a long time. (even worse than the "temporarily" excise increase of 0,25 guilders by Kok (also PvdA).)


----------



## BigMike90

ChrisZwolle said:


> CDA isn't so much the problem. They had to do this because they made the coalition with the PvdA and one of the key points in forming the coalition was introducing the kilometer charge. CDA already said they aren't such a big proponent of the km charge anymore.
> 
> The PvdA is the real evil, finance minister Wouter Bos is the biggest liar in the government, he said that most drivers would profit from the km charge. Yes, with the 3 cent km introduction charge, it may be, but not with the 6,7 cent per km in 2018, a 37% increase per year. That's about 10 - 15 times inflation...
> 
> Especially the working class will be hit, because the people who will be cheaper off are those who buy a brand new car every 3 years, or don't drive much, like the elderly.


Its government. That includes the CDA. Hell even the traffic minister is from that party. Still people vote in these lunatics every time. People even going to have to work till 67 now. 

:bash:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Vote for Geert Wilders or D66 then if you think they can do it better...

PvdA (labour party) is one big incompetent party. They put the most stupid people in high posities, like party chairman Hamer, minister Vogelaar of neighborhoods and integration (who resigned) and now Ter Horst of Home affairs is proposing to increase the amount of fines given by the police in order to increase credibility/authority of the police department, I mean what is up with that? To reach that quote, they need to fine for minor violations, no that's a good way to increase authority of the police! Dijksma and Cramer aren't the brightest politicians either..

Not to mention they're all women. No wonder PvdA is -50% in polls.


----------



## da_scotty

Let's quit the political Debate, as we are going offtopic!


================================================


I heard that camiel eurlings (PVDA.. at least there is someone with brains there) is proposing a new river crossing in rotterdam, that is positive news!!


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## ChrisZwolle

Camiel Eurlings is from the CDA party.


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## da_scotty

my mistake..


----------



## Timon91

Eurlings is still the best minister of traffic we've had in years.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

As there is no direct correlation between toll/tax income and infrastructure spending, the whole tax thing is more a department of finance thing than a department of infrastructure. I think finance minister Bos has more saying in this issue than Eurlings.


----------



## BigMike90

something tells me chris is voting CDA. Sure the PVDA is incompetent, hell they sure dont know how to do good politics anymore. But one cannot deny the fact we have 5 kabinets of balkenende with the CDA as leading party. Which means they also support:
-working till 67
-new kilometer tax system
-"na het zuur komt het zoet"
-we will do a research and see if it possible in 2059. Like putting off everything.
-shutting down coffeeshops, red light district.

I hate the way CDA voters are keeping this conservative people in power and are taking everything they do. The same people that blame everything on the PVDA but not recognizing the CDA is the leading party in this whole matter. It really strucks the mind...

Im thinking about voting D66, but thats only because Pechtold is a good politician, not the party itself.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What I vote is not important. My vote for nationwide elections usually depends on what plans there are in road construction. Personally, I would be better off with the km charge, because I don't commute a long distance on motorways and most of my mileage are from work-related drives or roadtrips, mostly to other countries. The first type is compensated by € 0,35 per km. The second is outside the Netherlands, so km charge doesn't apply. 

However, I am against the road charge in it's current proposal because people now have to pay the piper for the government incompetence and unrealistic policies over the last 30 years. Second, I don't think the km charge will actually be spent on roads. It would mean a threefold increase in road spending which I don't see happening, even though it would be a good thing. Third, there's no limit on the increase of the km charge. Sure, in 2012 it's € 0.03, in 2018 it's € 0.067, but what is it 2025?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Demolition of an old bridge across A2 near Utrecht. This bridge had to go because of the freeway widening to 10 lanes.

photos by A2 Hooggelegen project bureau and Darja Boers.


----------



## andrelot

Anyone has news on the new A4 link freeway construction between Den Haag and Rotterdam? I recently moved to The Netherlands and figured out that the only other option, the A13, is almost never uncongested during daytime. I also read that government gave green light on the project overruling local environwackos (no offense intended, they're everywhere anyway).

Have works already begun on that strecht?

And what about the Maastricht situation, are there going to build a tunnel or a bypass on A2, as I think that it will be highly improbable they would let an elevated freeway to be built?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I doubt if the A4 will be under construction within the next 3 years. They still need to go through some procedures called the "tracébesluit" (record of decision) and public hearings probably. Given the fact the construction of A4 already started in 1968, but has been abandoned since, and various proposals were killed over the 4 decades that followed, I don't think there is a realistic timetable yet.


----------



## andrelot

Other question: with this pay-for-drive tax, how tolls will be collected from foreing cars? At least here in Tilburg, there are a lot of Belgian, German and even some French cars.

My guess is that they will implement a road sticker like they do in Austria, Czeck, Switzerland and Bulgaria... Anyone has info on plans for foreign cars? It just annoys me to turn my car windshield into a sticker strip as more and more countries start imposing those. European Union should have an agreement so a common sticker system for international cars would be in place.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The plans aren't exactly finalized yet. Now we only know the introduction charge will be € 0,03 "on average" in 2012 and € 0,067 "on average" in 2018. Foreign cars will probably exempt of tolls until 2018, when they have to buy a vignette. But who knows where pan-European tolling system will be in 2018. Maybe France and Germany want to adopt this GPS tolling too.

Anyway, I really doubt if they will introduce the system by 2012 anyway, that's in two years, and I don't think they will manage to set up this extremely complex system within two years, let alone spend 4 - 6 billion euros on developing it.

I like your signature by the way


----------



## Timon91

Nice pics, Chris! Did they already demolish the other one?


----------



## xlchris

Lots of traffic jams today :nuts: Partly because there has been problems with the connectivity of Vodafone. Chaos at locations where trucks crashed etc.


----------



## Mateusz

If missing A4 will be ever constructed, will it be 2X3 straight away ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, 2+3 according to the most recent plans...


----------



## pilspaus

or in other words, big fail, if the new stretch is completen, loads and loads of people will make use of it and then u have another spot that is jammed all day, but thats my opinion.:bash:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some pics near Hoevelaken.

The road is the A1 motorway. It has shoulder running at certain hours.

1. CCTV camera looking eastbound, watching the shoulder running (if operational)









2. Looking eastbound. Shoulder is closed to traffic at the moment. 









3. Looking westbound. Shoulder running is not implemented in this direction, only eastbound.









4. Signage for interchange Hoevelaken (A1/A28) ahead.









5. 25x zoom. Actual distance: 550 meters.









6. Watching the watchers.


----------



## Verso

^^ Very smooth asphalt.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, it would've been very wrong if it wasn't because this part was repaved just 2 weeks ago


----------



## Verso

Thought so.


----------



## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


>


brand new tarmac... :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :lol:


----------



## Ni3lS

What is a tarmac?


----------



## julesstoop

Tarmac |ˈtärˌmak|
noun (usu. tarmac) trademark
material used for surfacing roads or other outdoor areas, consisting of crushed rock mixed with tar.
• ( the tarmac) a runway or other area surfaced with such material.
ORIGIN early 20th cent.: abbreviation of tarmacadam .


----------



## Timon91

Verso said:


> ^^ Very smooth asphalt.


And some clean, but not so shiny crash barriers


----------



## H123Laci

Ni3lS said:


> What is a tarmac?


http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-tarmac.htm


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Good news about A2:

All objections (2) against the widening of the A2 Everdingen - Deil to 2x4 lanes have been dismissed by the council of state. The construction has already began a few years ago as 2x4, but now it's sure those 2x4 can also be used.

This means the A2 Amsterdam - Deil will be at least 8 lanes wide for 60 kilometers. A few years ago, this road carried 100,000 AADT on 2x2 lanes.


----------



## Timon91

Great news! If the weather is fine, I might have a look at the A2 this weekend, I haven't done that in a while (ok, I live about 150 km away from the A2 now )


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The A28 Zwolle - Meppel will be widened to 2x3 lanes. In september 2009, the record of decision was subject to public hearings. Only 6 appeals have been made, so if everything goes right, widening will start in Q2 2010 and will be completed in Q2 2011, so it takes one year of construction.

The road configuration will be as follows;

Hattemerbroek - Zwolle-Zuid: 2x4 (no shoulders)
Zwolle-Zuid - Ommen: 2x2 (+ left shoulder running during rush hour, existing))
Ommen - Lankhorst: 2x3

The widening of Hattemerbroek - Zwolle-Zuid will be done on the existing bridge across the IJssel. Shoulders will be turned into driving lanes here. Between Zwolle-Zuid and Ommen, the current situation with left shoulder running will remain as it is. From Ommen to Lankhorst, widening will mostly take place within the median as there has been space planned for six lanes since the construction of this road in the 1960's.


----------



## Verso

So the Netherlands has finally started widening its motorways?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, things have improved significantly since 2005 in road projects.

Road construction and widening mostly halted in the early 1980's, only already planned projects were completed. The 1990's were mostly the scene of loading the existing roads to capacity, mostly by shoulder running and buffer lanes. However, the positive effects of those measures didn't last very long as the population of the Netherlands increased by 2.500.000 people from 1980 to 2008. So they really have to widen a lot of motorways now. But there's still this 25 year backlog


----------



## Verso

I think 60 km of 8 lanes is quite long for NL though.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It is. But the A2 is one of the most important arteries for domestic traffic within the Netherlands. It's 4-lane sections were close to 100,000 AADT between Amsterdam and Eindhoven. Right now, almost the entire A2 is being widened from Amsterdam to Eindhoven, just leaving Vught - Ekkersweijer with 4 lanes for the time being, plus south of Eindhoven.

However, I think a widening to six lanes from Vught to Ekkersweijer and from Leenderheide to Kerensheide is necessary within the next 15 years. Vught - Ekkersweijer is already at capacity, and Leenderheide - Kerensheide is approaching or at capacity, especially south of Roermond and near Eindhoven.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

TomTom HD Traffic can be very detailed:


----------



## andrelot

Is there any plan to fix the missing link between the A29 terminus in Dinteloord and the A4 terminus in Halsteren? And what about extending the A18 to Eschende? Any plans?

I'm just amazed to see how many missing links are there in Dutch freeway system. Not that other countries don't have them, but for the 6 months I've been living here, I realized that usually there's no pratical alternative to freeways - low speed limits, ciclists sharing the road, no throughfares to cross city centers.


----------



## Timon91

AFAIK there are plans to extend the A18 to Enschede as the N18. They would rebuild several parts of the existing N18 and build some parts new. The new N18 would cross the A35 over here. Westerval is already 2×2 and leads into Enschede. I don't know if the whole new N18 will be 2×2, I'm sure that there are problems with NIMBY's and environmentalists (after all this is still the Netherlands).


----------



## xlchris

A2


the runner said:


> Het zal denk niet lang meer duren voordat dit stuk ook opengaat bij Nieuwer ter Aa tussen Breukenlen en Vinkeveen.





dommeltje said:


> Een gedeelte van de Taatse viaduct over de A2 is begaanbaar nu.
> Zicht op het gedeelte richting Amsterdam, aan de andere kant van het scherm, helaas niet zichtbaar het verkeer vanuit Amsterdam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Als je vanaf die viaduct Utrecht in rijd, zie je de skyline van Kanaleneiland mooi liggen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A2 Den Bosch/Eindhoven vanaf de viaduct.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> De OV baan in aanbouw.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

In the coming night, the A73 tunnels near Roermond will finally open with 2x2 lanes. The motorway, including tunnels, was finished januari 1st, 2008 but there were so many problems with technical and safety features that the two tunnels closed 1800 (eighteen hundred) times in the past 22 months, of which 97 closures were planned.


----------



## Verso

1,800 times closed? This must be a record!


----------



## Timon91

This is a real embarrassment. It's time they remove the ultramodern safety system and install an existing (and working) system instead.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, that's the problem, the Dutch always want to show off with the best/newest/safest installations, but this obviously isn't working. 

Typical example of us (=government) wanting to be "the best boy in school". I hate that attitude. I don't want my tax money being spent on stuff we don't really need and is only to impress the other EU countries.


----------



## Bobek_Azbest

Oh dear, and I find closing down Prague's city ring tunnels once or twice a month for maintenance annoying. :lol:


----------



## andrelot

Interesting POV. Anyhow, I'm coming from Italy, where highway (let alone urban) tunnels are not only a choice but usually a physical imperative -indeed, 5,3% of the whole highway ("autostrade") system is underground. It never ceases to impress me how governments of more "flat" countries like Germany and Belgium (and, of course, the always-flat Netherlands) put massive secutiry measures in short tunnels that are way beyond reasonable requirements. 

There's a sense in spending tens of millions to make a 14-km, 2 lane, full of trucks cross-Alps tunnel safe in case of fire. There's not so much sense in making a hollow and short tunnel, specially the "environmental" ones where a handle of 10 meter concrete ramps with fireproof doors would evacuate every one, as expensive as those Alp's tunnels per km-built.


----------



## Timon91

Exactly. Imagine the tunnels on the Italian A23 being closed down every few days. In that case they better close down the whole road.


----------



## andrelot

On the other side, Italian government get nuts when developers want to build in "flood-prone" areas near major rivers, and is very afraid of building dikes to secure areas, yet I now live in Tilburg, where people told me the ancient coastline was before they started reclaiming 70km+westerward into the North Sea... As always, experience bring costs down.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They didn't really reclaim into the north sea if I'm correct. The current Randstad was more a collection of salt lakes with minor connections to the sea.


----------



## Slagathor

ChrisZwolle said:


> They didn't really reclaim into the north sea if I'm correct. The current Randstad was more a collection of salt lakes with minor connections to the sea.


Groningen, Friesland, Flevoland, Holland and Zeeland looked a lot like today's Waddenzee to be precise. The muddy plains (lightblue on the map below) flooded twice a day at high tide.

Or at least that's what Julius Ceasar's private records read.


----------



## BigMike90

^^ interesting map, thanks for posting.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Man this looks like shit...









Bad Nieuwe-
schans


----------



## Timon91

They just shouldn't have renamed Nieuweschans :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The amount of breaks in destinations on the signage is really annoying, especially with the new signage, it's hard to find signs that don't have breaks within destinations.


----------



## andrelot

Why had they added the German prefix?


----------



## PLH

It's also Dutch, isn't it?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah Bad Nieuweschans is a Dutch town at the German border. It's the Netherlands' northernmost border crossing. 

They added "Bad" a while ago because they think they are a spa and want to attract some more Germans.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A bad afternoon to be on the roads:

373 meldingen
Totale lengte: 1103km
Totale vertraging: 2309min


----------



## ChrisZwolle

:cheers: Santa Claus visited the Dutch speed cameras:


----------



## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


> Typical example of us (=government) wanting to be "the best boy in school". I hate that attitude. I don't want my tax money being spent on stuff we don't really need and is only to impress the other EU countries.



we are impressed, we are impressed... :banana: :banana:

we have a double whitestripe with a red one in the middle takeover-forbidder too... hno: :bash: hno:

http://www.origo.hu/motor/babettablog/20091126-m2-vorosre-festettek-az-eletveszelyes-utat.html


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> :cheers: Santa Claus visited the Dutch speed cameras


More like Denmark occupied the Netherlands. :runaway: What does it mean in practice?


----------



## DanielFigFoz

Verso said:


> More like Denmark occupied the Netherlands. :runaway: What does it mean in practice?


:sly: Be afraied! The Vikings are coming!

Continuing...

I took these in August:

Roermond-German Border

://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7231/img0195ma.jpg


----------



## xlchris

ChrisZwolle said:


> :cheers: Santa Claus visited the Dutch speed cameras:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It turned out the gift-wrapped speed cameras were a PR stunt of Go Fast beverages. They gift-wrapped 250 speed cameras throughout the country.


----------



## Timon91

It's a good joke though. Even the police thought that it was funny :lol:


----------



## Danielk2

I still believe in the theory that the Danes are invading the Netherlands!


----------



## mappero

"Sinterklass and his black slaves from Spain" - like I've heard today at work during lunch


----------



## ChrisZwolle

His "helpers"  It's a Dutch tradition, as well in a few other countries. We don't usually exchange gifts at Christmas, but at December 5th (Sinterklaas). As you may have guessed, Sinterklaas is similar to Santa Claus. I prefer Santa Claus though.


----------



## Verso

Grandpa Frost FTW!


----------



## Pannyers

Sinterklaas

Comparison of Sinterklaas and Santa Claus


----------



## Verso

Victorinus said:


> Comparison of Sinterklaas and Santa Claus


Is there a difference between Sinterklaas and Saint Nicholas? I celebrate all of them. Any excuse for a celebration.


----------



## kosimodo

^^ if there is a party..... Verso is there Skål!


----------



## Danielk2

Yeah... Skål :cheers:


----------



## Mr_Dru

Verso said:


> Is there a difference between Sinterklaas and Saint Nicholas? I celebrate all of them. Any excuse for a celebration.


Sinterklaas is based on St. Nicholas from Myra. Sinterklaas is celebrate in the Netherlands since the medievil times.

Then the Dutch settlers brought Sinterklaas and Oliebollen (a sweet, mainly eaten in December) to New Amsterdam. And from there a few hondred years later Sinterklaas became Santa Claus and the Oliebollen became donuts. And Coca Cola made Santa a commercial thing, and now the half world is celebrating Santa.


----------



## H123Laci

mappero said:


> "Sinterklass..."


in hungarian "sinter" (sintér) means skinner... :lol:


----------



## Verso

Mr_Dru said:


> Sinterklaas is based on St. Nicholas from Myra. Sinterklaas is celebrate in the Netherlands since the medievil times.
> 
> Then the Dutch settlers brought Sinterklaas and Oliebollen (a sweet, mainly eaten in December) to New Amsterdam. And from there a few hondred years later Sinterklaas became Santa Claus and the Oliebollen became donuts. And Coca Cola made Santa a commercial thing, and now the half world is celebrating Santa.


I see, thanks. You should do something about it. 



kosimodo said:


> ^^ if there is a party..... Verso is there Skål!


Sante. :cheers:


----------



## Alqaszar

Well that explains why my Dutch student (actually living in Germany and going to a German school) was so disappointed that there were no presents today.


----------



## Verso




----------



## da_scotty

Yeah 

The Den Bosch Beltway, has officialy opened, its a 4*2 beltway, with a express/collector set up


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Actually, only in one direction (northbound). Southbound will follow on thursday but it will be until 6-2010 before the whole project is completed.


----------



## Mr_Dru

From today the Amber Alert is introduced on the Dutch Highways. Amber Alert is a warningsystem copied from the USA, it warns you via sms, internet and radio when a child is kidnapped. Now the Amber Alert can be showed on the trafficdisplays as wel. 










Texas


----------



## Danielk2

Is this system used anywhere else in the world than NL and the US??


----------



## Coccodrillo

http://tentea.ec.europa.eu/download/project_fiches/netherlands/fichenew_2009nl00010e_final.pdf


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Traffic chaos around Utrecht again. Earlier this afternoon, a truck lost a couple of concrete slabs, closing two southbound lanes on A2 near Utrecht. This traffic jam quickly reached 25 kilometers, and started already in Amsterdam. Traffic then detoured via A1-A27 via the east side of Utrecht. This resulted in an A1 that was jammed over 20 kilometers and an A27 that was also jammed over 20 kilometers. The connecting A28 was also jammed for 20 kilometers in the direction of Utrecht. So a short-lived two-lane closured caused a peak traffic jam of 85 kilometer in total. 

I just got an SMS of a friend of my who is stationary for the last 90 minutes trying to enter the A28 motorway in the direction of A27-south. (there is 1km between that entrance and the A27 interchange). Traffic doesn't move at all.


----------



## andrelot

I guess that is what happen when governments keep "tweaking" the system, adding "peak hours lanes", pushing capacity to the max etc.: a small nuisance brings the whole system to a halt.

Geez, they should build at least 150 km of brand new freeways in the Randstad, 2 X 3.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N331, Zwolle*

This video follows a new section of the N331 highway in Zwolle. This road is not shorter or better than the existing N331, but traffic is to be rerouted so the area around the old N331 can be redeveloped. Also, the new N331 features a much bigger intersection at the Stadshagen development project (40,000 inhabitants), a new neighborhood of Zwolle. The old intersection where N331 turns north had only 3 lanes, while the new intersection has 4 to 6 lanes. 

map is in the beginning of the video:


----------



## hoosier

andrelot said:


> Geez, they should build at least 150 km of brand new freeways in the Randstad, 2 X 3.


Yep, destroy the Groene Hart and encourage more CO2 emissions in a country that sits BELOW SEA LEVEL.

Do you even think before posting?


----------



## andrelot

You can build freeways underground in higly sensitive spot environmental areas. You can drive an hybrid.

Moreover, CO2 is fungible in its effects AFAIK. CO2 emmited in inneficient coal powerplants in China affect Dutch as much as Chinese.

Fact is: there is a huge congestion in the Randstad, and they need to address the problem. "Lack of public transit" is not an excuse there: I doubt there are any other major multi-centric metropolitan area in Europe that has as nearly as half of Randstad rail network, urban and intercity. Trains are not running empty for sure, yet there is still a lot of road congestion because rail cannot cope with travel demands of MOST of Randstad inhabitants who live and work in different places (a situation far common here).

There are some missing links, like the A4 Den Haag-Rotterdam, that ought to be completed. For sake, they've already build a **** (levee) which is supposed to be the roadbed.

(Don't want to take it personal, but


> Do you even think before posting?


 seems harsh and inadequate on me.)


----------



## Mr_Dru

Danielk2 said:


> Is this system used anywhere else in the world than NL and the US??


Canada, Australia (State Queensland), France, Malaysia and in the near furture Ireland.

Source| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMBER_Alert


----------



## Timon91

hoosier said:


> Yep, destroy the Groene Hart and encourage more CO2 emissions in a country that sits BELOW SEA LEVEL.


Would you say that the current situation is perfect? One accident on the motorways around Rotterdam and the whole area is gridlocked. First of all, the A4 needs to be completed between Delft and Rotterdam, and it should be at least 2×3, like andrelot said. Secondly, most current motorways need to be upgraded. AFAIK they started widening the A4 near Leiden a couple of months ago, and it's time for some more widenings. Unfortunately it will take a lot of time before this is reality, since environmentalists and NIMBY's have become much too powerful.


----------



## Coccodrillo

Timon91 said:


> ...since environmentalists and NIMBY's have become much too powerful.


Luckily.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Coccodrillo said:


> Luckily.


If you think that paralyzing a country is "luckily", the Netherlands is the place to be for you hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

hoosier said:


> Yep, destroy the Groene Hart and encourage more CO2 emissions in a country that sits BELOW SEA LEVEL.


Over the last 20 years, far more space have been used for housing development in the Green Heart, than all of the motorways in the Randstad use combined. Seriously, such comments are as hypocrite as it can gets. hno:

Second, not many people worry about the sea level. This is not New Orleans. I don't see the relation with CO2 emissions either, transport is only responsible for about 10% of the CO2 emissions, widening some motorways is not gonna worsen that statistically. Really populist to use those kind of non-arguments. hno:

For instance, the manufacturing of my fake Christmas tree cost 48 kilo of CO2. Before I have emitted that kind of CO2 with my car, I have driven over 350 kilometers. Cars always get the brunt of it because they are the most visible form of CO2 emissions. But you have to see those things in perspective. Widening or building a motorway does not substantially increase emissions.


----------



## ArthurK

More or wider highways does _not_ necessarily mean more pollution. Cars pollute more when in a traffic jam, because of the constant stopping, driving, stopping, driving... If you could eliminate the traffic jams by adding an extra lane or a missing link (like the A4), you might help the environment as well.

Of course, you should also work on offering alternatives for people now driving by car, like frequent suburban rail and clustering office working places near railway stations. But public transport is not an option for all the daily trips. It might be more environment-friendly to travel 10 miles by car than travel 30 miles in an almost empty bus to reach te same destination.

So actually, it's not that black and white as many people try us to believe. Economic growth can co-exist with helping the environment. But that's not a popular message these days; some people are making a lot of money with the climate hype. Think about it: if not so many were scared by the prophets of the Al Goreism, all those people at the climate summit in Copenhagen would be unemployed. It's their well-payed job to scare us and make you believe _it's all your fault!_ :nono:

Don't get me wrong; I do believe it is important to be careful with our environment. But people shouldn't extrapolate assumptions and then jump to the conclusion they want to hear. Especially if they are making a lot of money with those practices. The real environmental challenges are not some stupid missing 5 miles of the A4 highway near Rotterdam, but how developping countries will fuel their production.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Interchange Julianaplein, Groningen*

The "Interchange" Julianaplein, intersection is a better word, is the busiest traffic light intersection in the Netherlands. The N7 handles 85,000 vehicles per day, and the A28 is close to 60,000 AADT. 

Recently, a tunnel has been constructed for traffic from A28 towards downtown Groningen. Before that, traffic had to cross the intersection. Now you can dive under the intersection.

Direction Groningen (northbound)














































Other direction (Assen, southbound)























































Photos by Roedie1


----------



## peezet

Chris, is there a AADT-site online you get your figures from ? 
Or do you fid them somewhere else


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Rijkswaterstaat publishes them in their annual "INWEVA" reports. Just google for "INWEVA", and you'll find it, it's an Excel file. The most recent ones have data from 2006 though, I have no idea why they are so slow with publishing them, I mean, I have found 2008 data for countries like South Korea or Brazil.


----------



## Timon91

Today the first 80-km zone will partly disappear  On the news they said that the 80-km zone on the A12 east, out of The Hague, sometimes gets a maximum speed of 100 km/h, sometimes 80 km/h.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Uche... :banana:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Den Bosch - Eindhoven*

This section of motorway has an interesting history. Let me tell some more about it.

map, Den Bosch is shown as 's-Hertogenbosch here.









While this part of A2 looks very regular, it hasn't been around that long. It was one of the last mainline motorways in the Netherlands to be completed. 

After the World War II, the need for a better route between Den Bosch and Eindhoven became clear. Between 1956 and 1959, most of the N2 was widened to a four-lane, divided highway with traffic lights. The last part of this widening was completed in 1966 at Boxtel. The reason why this road wasn't built as a motorway right away (which would be normal at that time), is that the A2 was originally planned with a more easterly course, via St. Michelsgestel and Son towards Eindhoven. A Record of Decision for this route was taken in 1970, but never executed.

Another ROD was taken in 1979 to reconstruct the N2 into a motorway instead. Works started 7 years later, in 1986. In 1996, the reconstruction was completed, 17 years after the ROD was taken. In recent years, the A2 proved to be incapable to handle today's traffic. Traffic volumes are close to 100,000 AADT on 2x2 lanes, so from 2003, plans were started to add shoulder running. Some mistakes were made in process, and they had to start everything from square one again. In 2008, it was decided to widen A2 to 2x3 lanes right away, so no shoulder running. The project should be completed in 2013.


----------



## Timon91

My dad used to work in Eindhoven for one or two days a week when that section wasn't build as a motorway yet. He said that he still has nightmares about the traffic lights


----------



## Danielk2

it's rarely used in Denmark. The only place it is used is a the end of roadworks. anywhere else, the "end of speed limit" or "end of overtaking ban" signs are used.


----------



## Substructure

Indeed, thank you. It's actually a fairly rare sight on French road as far as I can tell, I had forgotten about it.


----------



## Suburbanist

In Italy it is fairly common. Many foreigners (outside UE) associate it with "no speed limit" and don't understand why they are all over Europe when, as DanielFigFoz said, it means end of all restrictions - which incidentally means no speed limit in German highways.


----------



## Palance

On one of the other pictures you will see a restriction of 70 km/h. That's why the sign 'end of all restrictions' is used. However, since the max. speed in the Netherlands is 120 km/h this should mean that you might drive 120 here. The A15 and A16 near Rotterdam however are limited to 100. So the sign 'end of all restrictions'. is quite useless here, since there is immidiately a new restriction (of 100) here. Therefore only the sign '100' would be more then enough here.


----------



## Suburbanist

Do they allow 130 km/h in clear skies nights near Rotterdam? Or are the roads geometrically limited?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

130 is allowed... nowhere in the Netherlands.

More and more of the Randstad is 100 km/h unfortunately. Even A16 all the way to Breda is a stupid 100 km/h, even though it is a modern six-lane freeway which runs through pastures.


----------



## julesstoop

Something I've never understood (because I don't have a car) is what the problem is with a speed limit of 100 km/h (as opposed to 120) especially in the Netherlands where one would anyhow spend most part of the journey to get into and out of cities. 
Car-people. Please enlighten me!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't know if you drive a car, but 100 km/h on a non-congested motorway feels very slow. Those are called "not credible speed limits". It's asking for speed violations. The speed limit must be according to the road layout. That's why people have such problems with all those 60-zones too, because all roads in such a zone are at 60 km/h, regardless of layout like geometry, road width, visibility etc.

100 km/h works on busy urban motorways that are congested or near-congestion. Not on a mostly freeflowing six-lane motorway that runs most of it's 50 km length through rural areas. For instance, 100 km/h would make sense in Rotterdam and Dordrecht, but not south of Dordrecht.


----------



## Suburbanist

Something I also don't understand is why, given the huge ammount of money poured into variable signaling in many European countries, don't they use those systems more wisely (Germans are an exception though).

@julesstoop:

People who don't drive or who are trying to elude the public usually make comparisons like: oh, decrease the speed limit by 10 kph and you will add just 2,5 minutes to the average journey.

Once there were days in which speed limits were always fixed by means of putting a fixed sign. Then, if the area was prone to fog somehow, you'd lower the limit. If the area was prone to high winds, you'd lower the limit.

Now, we have variable signaling (those huge electronic signposts you see more and more in Europe). They are usefull not only to give advice about accidents or jams, or to inform about whether a rush-hour lane in the shoulder is open or closed, but also to establish different speeds according to traffic and wheather.

However, many countries road authorities are dumb. They use a 40 years-old approach consisting on setting a limit low enough that would be obeyed by 80 to 85% of the drivers. The rationale is that there would be some natural "speeders" everywhere, but they would speed not only in absolute terms, but also in relate to other traffic. It was a bitter, though sound policy in the days when enforcing speed was difficult and out of priority of highway patrol.

Now, we have a plethora of video surveillance devices (speed traps), including the smartest ones that measure speed not at a single point, but indeed the average speed over a given strecht of 1 up to 10 km, we have mobile speed detectors, we have variable signaling, we have speed limitators that are cheap to build and so on. There is no reason to enforce low speeds on freeways whatsoever. Most arguments, like "it reduces pollution", "it creates a safer street driving behavior" (it would be like to slow down trains so high-speed train drives develop suitable behavior when driving trams), "it saves money" are proven invalid by independent studies.

For instance, in Germany, where no speed limit exists in 55% of its freeway network, the death rate in freeway crashes is the lowest in Europe.


----------



## DanielFigFoz

Suburbanist said:


> In Italy it is fairly common. Many foreigners (outside UE) associate it with "no speed limit" and don't understand why they are all over Europe when, as DanielFigFoz said, it means end of all restrictions - which incidentally means no speed limit in German highways.


It originally meant "no speed limit" in the UK as well, but they introduced speed limits on motorways so now it is = to 60mph and is only seen on non motorways.


----------



## Kaasbroodje

Oh my god look at the congestion now on www.geenfile.nl!


----------



## DanielFigFoz

That is a lot!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kaasbroodje said:


> Oh my god look at the congestion now on www.geenfile.nl!


Still, only a third of what we had thursday december 17th.


----------



## pijanec

Palance said:


>


This must be a mistake in traffic signalization because both signs are placed on the same traffic pole that means both limits start at that point (and because they are both prohibitory traffic signs they should have the equal power by traffic law) ... so they have basically set 2 different speed limits for section ahead, 100 km/h and 120 km/h. .


----------



## Glodenox

Hmm, you can't say there's a mistake if you don't know the exact situation. I don't know it either, but I can imagine there was a sign saying it's prohibited for trucks to overtake other vehicles (or another sign with a restriction). In that case, the sign would make sense.

Traffic signs are always read from top to bottom, so in this case "No special restrictions" and then "Restricted to 100km/h".

Greetings,
Glodenox


----------



## piotr71

Btw. how is the vignettes issue developing in the Netherlands?
Several days ago I had a pleasure to drive across that nice country on its smoothly paved motorways and see 3 yellow boards - just after German border, entering Venlo on A67 - saying "No Vignetten". 

Did it mean - no vignettes at the moment but we will implement toll system soon? Or, the government plans has been scrapped?

In 3 months time I am going to go back to my place and am wondering wether will pay some extra euros or not, driving over NL?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Those are eurovignettes for trucks. Trucks need those in the Netherlands and they're usually sold in border areas.


----------



## peezet

they use a fohn to get rid of the ice :nuts:
http://www.youtube.com/v/DfUdW2xUhI4&hl


----------



## piotr71

Yes, but did not the Dutch Government plan to make motorways in NL paid?
Maybe I am wrong, though I would bet I read quite a lot about that here.


----------



## pijanec

Glodenox said:


> Traffic signs are always read from top to bottom, so in this case "No special restrictions" and then "Restricted to 100km/h".


Not in Slovenia. Here prohibitory traffic signs must follow one after another - not to be on the same pole. Because there are situations they can cancel each other as is case on the picture (=> I have never seen such case in practice anywhere till now).


----------



## piotr71

ChrisZwolle said:


> *Tolls in the Netherlands*
> 
> Tonight, the plans have been unveiled of a toll scheme in the Netherlands with an introduction in 2012.
> 
> A GPS-based toll will be implemented, and people will be charged according to distance, time and location. This means a drive during rush hour around Amsterdam will be expensive, but a nightly drive in Drenthe will be cheap.
> 
> On average, motorists will pay € 0,03 per kilometer in 2012 and € 0,067 in 2018. Road tax and car taxes will be canceled. This means cars will be cheaper by 40%. A car of € 25.000 will cost you € 17.850 in 2012. Monthly road tax will disappear too, which would save the average diesel driver over € 1000 per year.
> 
> I have no details on the location/time pricing yet. It would be interesting to know what say, a drive of 10 km on the A1 near Amsterdam cost at 8 am. Randstad rush hour drivers can expect a higher toll than the average "€0,03" advertised now.


All clear now! Yellow signs had to be done for lorry drivers as you said. What was their meaning then?
a) No vignettes needed?
b) No vignettes for sale?
or something else?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

piotr71 said:


> All clear now! Yellow signs had to be done for lorry drivers as you said. What was their meaning then?
> a) No vignettes needed?
> b) No vignettes for sale?
> or something else?


b) No vignettes for sale. Apparently, that gas station didn't have Eurovignettes. It may also be the German Eurovignette, since only trucks over 12 tonnes are tolled with LKW Maut.


----------



## convalescence

ChrisZwolle said:


> 130 is allowed... nowhere in the Netherlands.
> 
> More and more of the Randstad is 100 km/h unfortunately. Even A16 all the way to Breda is a stupid 100 km/h, even though it is a modern six-lane freeway which runs through pastures.


I looked at GMaps-Sat-Images looking for a cause why there's 100 at A16 between Rotterdam and Breda. I found a cause: I think it's because of settlement next to the motorway. At a stretch of some kilometres it isn't a dense population but there is one! Maybe some of them reached a 100-tempo-limit on this stretch?

If the whole traffic is going with 100 instead of 120 km/h it takes huge effects on noise and emissions! And seriously... like julesstoop said: it's not that big time advantage.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Time issues are NOT the main factor in determining the speed limit. Many think "oh, it's just a few minutes". While that is true, speed limits should be based on road layout, traffic volumes and the V85 percentile. 

Reducing the speed limit to 100 km/h every time there is a minor settlement along a motorway is just plain nonsense. That way you can downgrade almost all motorways. 

Also, reducing the speed limit does NOTHING to noise levels in the Netherlands. This was surveyed in the widening of the A28 to six lanes between Zwolle and Meppel. People wanted the speed limit to be lowered from 120 to 100 km/h. They answered the actual noise reduction is only 0,5 dB, which is a difference you cannot notice.
Also, the pollutants emissions would only lower 0.3 - 1% of the emission limits (=40 microgrammes per m³), which are also not exceeded in many parts of the Netherlands.


----------



## julesstoop

The replies to my question seem to suggest that most just prefer a higher speed limit because driving a car on a motorway is more pleasant that way. And there is no real advantage to drive slower when the road layout allows a higher speed.

My answer to that is:
E = 1/2 mv^2
In other words, the amount of energy of a moving car increases by its speed squared, and this equation does not even take into account friction (so just 20% faster means 44% more energy). So the main advantage of driving a little slower seems to be relatively large fuel savings.

Do any of you know the average milage of your cars on 100 kph and 120 kph, because I might be wrong as to the real world implications of my assumption.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

100 km/h is, of course, more fuel efficient than 120 km/h, although fuel consumption really start to pick up above 130 km/h. 

My diesel car gets about 21 km / liter at 100 -110 km/h and 19 km / liter at 120 - 130 km/h. 
Modern petrol cars have RPM controllers these days, like VTEC and VVT-i, that way they don't need to run at 4000 RPM at 120 km/h anymore, but approach the RPM of a diesel car at 120 km/h, which is usually between 2600 and 3000 RPM. That way, fuel consumption is reduced.

However, the effect on pollutants concentrations is, like I said, pretty minimal, we're talking about 1 - 2 µg per m³ at traffic volumes around 100,000 and somewhat more at higher traffic volumes. The limit for NOx and PM10 is 40 µg per m³, and is sometimes exceeded because of significant background concentrations, especially in large industrial, urban and coastal zones, and some agricultural areas like southeastern Noord-Brabant.

Something one has to understand is that a speed limit needs to be credible. i.e. a speed limit that fits the geometry and traffic of a road. 100 km/h doesn't fit on a rural six-lane motorway. 100 km/h does fit on an eight-lane, urban motorway with interchanges every kilometer. If speed limits aren't credible, it's just asking for significant speed violations. If speed limits are overall credible, people will adjust to lower speed limits where it is justified. If all speed limits are pointlessly low, the driver will most likely not adjust his speed at locations where it is really necessary.

If you drive a lot in Germany, you will notice German drivers behave significantly different than Dutch drivers. When there is a city limit sign, or a speed restriction, a German will actively brake to an appropriate speed. The Dutch driver won't. He will let go of the gas, but only slow down if it is actively enforced, like a speed camera or speed bump. That is why Dutch neighborhoods and towns are full of speed bumps and other traffic calming devices, while they are almost absent in Germany. That's a mentality difference, the Dutch isn't used to think for himself anymore, and why should he, every unusual situation is lined with signs, speed bumps and speed cameras. Yet the German traffic safety score is better than the Dutch one, even though they have significantly higher speed limits.


----------



## xlchris

You can't move anymore in Amsterdam...sick. The sudden snow suprised everybody.


----------



## Jeroen669

convalescence said:


> I looked at GMaps-Sat-Images looking for a cause why there's 100 at A16 between Rotterdam and Breda. I found a cause: I think it's because of settlement next to the motorway. At a stretch of some kilometres it isn't a dense population but there is one! Maybe some of them reached a 100-tempo-limit on this stretch?
> 
> If the whole traffic is going with 100 instead of 120 km/h it takes huge effects on noise and emissions! And seriously... like julesstoop said: it's not that big time advantage.


This is not a few kms, we're talking about the entire stretch between IC Terbregseplein and IC Galder, which is more than 40kms. On a motorway of this quality (even for dutch standards) that's just ridiculous. Especially between Dordrecht and Breda you'd almost fall asleep driving 100km/h...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

xlchris said:


> You can't move anymore in Amsterdam...sick. The sudden snow suprised everybody.


Yeah it's a total mess. Meteorological services did not expect this kind of snowfall. The warnings were issued after the snowfall started.

Amsterdam vicinity ONLY:


----------



## xlchris

Trafficjam on N201, part of the Hoofddorp beltway


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It is almost 9 pm, but Amsterdam metro is still a mess:


----------



## Danielk2

115min wait in a 34km traffic jam?? Let me guess: S.N.O.W


----------



## julesstoop

I took the bus back from work in Amstelveen to Schiphol Airport, normally a 15-20 minutes drive at most. It took me - or rather the bus driver - 2 hours this evening...

@ChrisZwolle: fair enough. If your information is correct - for which I see no reason why it shouldn't - a somewhat more realistic speed limit might actually help the environment due to more self-conscious driving behaviour.


----------



## seem

peezet said:


> they use a fohn to get rid of the ice :nuts:
> http://www.youtube.com/v/DfUdW2xUhI4&hl


Why they don`t (simply) salting a road but using a fohn on it? :nuts:

Eco-terrorism?

It is funny to read a news about "cold" Europe if we haven`t problems. :lol:

PS: In slovak thread are photos of D1 motorway ("coldest" section), were taken about 1:00 PM. You can compare situation.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Salt doesn't work on solid ice. 

Amsterdam at 10 pm:


----------



## Daniel541

^^ This was Amsterdam @ 7 pm: total chaos


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The last traffic jam disappeared at 1.45 am on A9.


----------



## xlchris

That's just horror....has never been like this or what?


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## ChrisZwolle

It has. On November 25th, 2005, about 25 cm of snow fell around the Veluwe area. The A50 was jammed for almost 20 hours in a row, the last traffic jams disappeared after 4.30 am back then. It was a major chaos, I had a teacher back then who drove from Zwolle to Apeldoorn (40km) and it took her 10 hours.


----------



## tsov

Yesterday, it took me only 3 hours to get from Zaandam to Diemen. Since I read & heard that the A10 was a mess, I decided to take the backroads through the centre of Amsterdam. It wasn't much better, although I could drive slowly for the biggest part. The problem was that when I stood still, it usually took the traffic more than 15 minutes or half an hour to start moving again... I originally planned to drive back from Diemen to Amsterdam-Noord in the evening, but I decided to sleep over in Diemen


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another phrase I encountered about a noise screen on A2:



> Uit het door TNO verrichte geluidsonderzoek kan geconcludeerd worden dat de snelheidsreductie van 100km/u naar 80km/u (incl. stringente handhaving) t.h.v. Overschie een positief effect heeft van 1-2dB(A) op de geluidsbelasting op de gevels van de langs Rijksweg 13 gesitueerde woningen.


It says a survey by TNO concluded that a reduction of the speed limit from 120 km/h to 80 km/h in combination with 100% enforcement has a positve effect of 1 -2 dB(A). This is a difference you won't notice. 3 dB means the sound doubles, and a difference 2 - 3 is usually the first a human ear can notice.


----------



## Danielk2

3dB?? That's one silent autosnelweg


----------



## da_scotty

3dB decrease in sound.. what do you think, 3dB is about the sound of a falling leaf...


----------



## Danielk2

da_scotty said:


> 3dB decrease in sound.. what do you think, 3dB is about the sound of a falling leaf...


the sound of a falling leaf is way too noisy for me :rofl:


----------



## peezet

sound has a logarithmic scale so the decraese of 3dB is more than 3 times less sound.
that's a lot !


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Actually a difference of 3 dB means the sound doubles or halves. A 2 dB difference is the minimum a human ear can detect. Drastically lowering the speed limit from 120 to 80 km/h saves 1 - 2 dB(A). That's nothing, you can barely hear that difference.


----------



## ABRob

Sorry, which dB do you mean?
10 dB means that the sound doubles or halves.

Otherway it will be a weird scale:
2 dB as minimum you can notice but 3 dB as duplication / bisection...


----------



## mappero

Yes of course! What else?!
Just close all motorways in NL and everyone will be happy!
If the goverment want decrease speed to 100 km/h becasue of ecology! I will say there are idiots. Not only they but also mostly Dutch drivers. If you want save enviroment and save fuel, just:
- stop speeding from traffic lights, 
- don't put maximum acceleration when car engine is cold !!
- stop driving like 119 km/h on the left lane and don't overtake others car several minutes! (like Germans say about label (NL) -->> nur links (fahren))


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> # The human perception of, for example, sound or light, is, roughly speaking, such that a doubling of actual intensity causes perceived intensity to always increase by the same amount, irrespective of the original level. The decibel's logarithmic scale, in which a doubling of power or intensity always causes an increase of approximately 3 dB, corresponds to this perception.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel#Merits


----------



## ABRob

[In German:]


> Der Schalldruckpegel ist eine technische und keine psychoakustische Größe. Ein Rückschluss von Schalldruckpegel auf die wahrgenommene Empfindung ist nur sehr eingeschränkt möglich. Ganz allgemein lässt sich sagen, dass eine Erhöhung bzw. Senkung des Schalldruckpegels tendenziell auch ein lauter bzw. leiser wahrgenommenes Schallereignis hervorruft. *Als Faustformel gilt, dass 10 dB Unterschied etwa als doppelte bzw. halbe Lautstärke wahrgenommen wird.*


http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schalldruckpegel

That's why I asked...


----------



## mappero

Hi guys!
Are they going to close motorways in the Netherlands during weekend???? Is is true?? Because of snow?
It's ridiculous!! 
What will happen on Monday morning? How could I get Eindhoven driving from Groningen?
http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/5734367/__Wegen_mogelijk_afgesloten__.html?p=35,2


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## ChrisZwolle

They won't close motorways. Maybe some lanes, but not entire motorways.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I dug a little bit in the financial background of the Dutch roads, taxes and expenditures:


ministry of finance

gives the following graph:









Accijns = excise duty. 80% is fuel excise, 20% alcohol and tobacco. That comes down to € 8.5 billion
BPM = vehicle registration fee at first purchase. Currently 142% of the market value. € 3.6 billion
Motorrijtuigenbelasting = monthly road tax. € 3.2 billion
Belasting zware motorrijtuigen = truck tax. € 0.1 billion

together: € 15.4 billion, excluding the 19% sales tax over fuels and vehicles. This would add another (50,000 vehicles * € 35,000 per vehicle * 0.19 = ) € 0.3 billion in vehicles and € 0.1 in sales tax over gasoline (don't know about diesel). 

Together about € 16 billion in automobility related taxes. 

Road budget for 2010: € 3.175 billion... source


----------



## keber

ChrisZwolle said:


> Together about € 16 billion in automobility related taxes.
> 
> Road budget for 2010: € 3.175 billion... source


Don't think, that it is anyhow different elsewhere. Just relationship between tax and budget is different, principle is the same.


----------



## aswnl

ChrisZwolle said:


> Accijns = excise duty. 80% is fuel excise, 20% alcohol and tobacco. That comes down to € 8.5 billion


You forget to mention you have to pay a 19% VAT (BTW) over these duties. That's an extra € 1.6 billion...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A hole got in the A2 near a sewage pipe at interchange Kruisdonk (near Maastricht). They have no idea about the cause yet, maybe it was caused by winter conditions, but it is also possible a leak or ground water washed away the foundation.


----------



## piotr71

mappero said:


> I will say there are idiots. Not only they but also mostly Dutch drivers.
> 
> 
> 
> - stop driving like 119 km/h on the left lane and don't overtake others car several minutes! (like Germans say about label (NL) -->> nur links (fahren))


Do not you think you have called certain group of people in offensive way?
Some, after reading your post might call us, Poles as ppl having nothing to say just wanting to argue with and offend anther nations

How far are connected ecological isues and driving according to the traffic rules?


----------



## mappero

Perhaps it was too strong. 
I was angry after what we heard in Dutch radio on the first day of snow fall: "all accidents on motorways happened because of Polish drivers..." True is, Dutch drivers with this snow conditions and summer tires on wheels blame Polish about too fast driving but we (also Germans) have experiences in driving in winter conditions, Dutch not!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What a nonsense. Because Dutch newspapers and media usually give the identity (male, female, country), accidents where Polish are involved are much easier to notice than other accidents.

For instance;

* a 39 year old male was involved in the accident

vs 

* a 28 year old male from Poland was involved in the accident

First of all, "involved" is something different than "caused", and you only need to read this a few times to get the idea that "all the accidents are caused by Poles". 

The fact is, only 10% of the Dutch drivers have winter tires and most of them don't know squat about driving in the snow.


----------



## Danielk2

you aren't too great at corners when it's snowing yourself, eh??


----------



## Suburbanist

It's like the argument of shutting down air traffic to avoid 100% of air crashes fatalities.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The "Telegraaf" newspaper (daily circulation: 696,000 largest in NL, right-wing/sensationalist newspaper) already got 100,000 reactions on their poll about the km charge. Preliminary results give 89% of the respondents are against the km charge. 

I wonder what the ANWB result will be. I take it the number of people against it will be lower (ANWB is in reality pro-km charge, but now have a problem because a large proportion of their members is against it). ANWB publishes a professional magazine called "traffic engineering" (verkeerskunde), but their articles about the km charge are not the slightest critical. I mean, there are a lot of claims about the effect of km-charge which are subject of some serious discussion, yet they're not debating any of them.

High officials are already preparing themselves for a "Parliamentary survey", which is like the most serious investigation possible in politics, and often leads to the fall of a government or of individual ministers. All people involved must cooperate by law and can be heard under oath.


----------



## Suburbanist

Km-charged tolls are a good idea, but I'm afraid the trade-off is just not fair. If they abolished excise taxes on gas and diesel, leaving only BTW (VAT) on them, it should be fairer.


----------



## Mateusz

Are there still motorways without hard shoulders in the Netherlands ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Mateusz said:


> Are there still motorways without hard shoulders in the Netherlands ?


In some tunnels. And when shoulder running is in operation.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Several trucks jackknifed and cars crashed on A1 due to unexpected slippery roads east of Oldenzaal.









pic by alsedijkstra


----------



## Timon91

It is indeed very slippery here. There was a little bit of snow this morning, but due to the subzero temperatures it has become icy (even though I live west of Oldenzaal )


----------



## Satan Of Panonia

ChrisZwolle said:


> Today, both ANWB (Dutch motorists and tourist association) and the Telegraaf (Telegraph newspaper) have launched a poll about the so-called "kilometerheffing" (kilometer charge) where every vehicle is to be charged by the kilometer.
> 
> As a member of ANWB, I also sent them an email where I explain why I am against the kilometer charge. Today, the ANWB started a poll, which immediately lead to a server overload and inaccessible web page for several hours. The Dutch newspaper Telegraaf (most circulated Dutch newspaper) also started a poll, and after several hours, already 65.000 people responded.
> 
> It shows the km charge debate is a very lively one. I wonder what the results would be though, the ANWB poll was fairly suggestive and pro-km charge in my opinion, there was no simply yes or no answer, but questions like "do you think it's a good thing traffic fatalities will drop because of the km charge", I mean, how in earth can you vote against that? Since when is the km charge and traffic fatalities rate a related thing? You couldn't simply say "I don't think it has any influence", but "i (strongly) agree" or "i (strongly) disagree".
> 
> So if you're against the km charge, you would need to put the crazy answer of "I disagree that it's a good thing traffic fatalities will drop because of the km charge".


Ik heb al tegen gestemd.Die gasten in Den Haag sporen niet.Zulke dingen kwamen zelfs in de USSR niet voor.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Freak accident on A73 motorway near Roermond. A 32-year old woman got a hypo (Hypoglycemia, low blood glucose level), and drove against traffic and caused several accidents en-route. The first accident was in the Swalmen Tunnel north of Roermond, and she then kept driving against traffic and the police lowered the gates at the Roer Tunnel, where she crashed through, flanked a van and then had a head-on collision with a jeep. A fire broke out in her car immediately after the accident, but the on-site police managed to keep it under control.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another major accident at the exact same location as yesterday.

Two trucks and two cars crashed in the Roer tunnel, one person was killed and several people were injured. A medevac helicopter was called to the scene, and another ambulance was also on the scene, but another car crashed into the ambulance and slammed to the other roadway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A third big accident on A73, in northern Limburg (near Cuijk), 7 trucks crashed. Southbound lanes are closed since 6.45 am, and are likely to open around 15.30 again. It's doesn't cause very long traffic jams since A73 is not the busiest motorway in the Netherlands, and it happened in the anti-rush hour direction.

4 cars and a truck crashed on A15 near Rotterdam. 4 out of 6 lanes were closed. 

And another thing; there is another snow front moving in, people are advised to go home early.


----------



## Jeroen669

^^ I know someone who had been stuck 3 hours there (A73). I drove there by the early evening and they still were busy to repair the barrier.


----------



## Des

Today 2 lanes closed on the A1 from Amsterdam to Amersfoort for emergency repairs to the highway that was caused by the cold temperatures. This caused a lot of extra traffic jams around Amsterdam this evening rush hour. 

Yesterday I drove from Delft to Amsterrdam around noon and also two lanes were closed on the A4 between the Hague and Leiderdorp for the same reason.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The most ambitious urban plan in the next decade(s) will be the A10-south in Amsterdam. 

Currently, this motorway has 6 lanes, 180.000 AADT and has a subway and railway running in the median. This corridor is over 150 meters wide.

The city of Amsterdam wants to put the whole thing underground, a 1.2 km tunnel with 12 lanes of motorway, a high-speed railway, regular railway and subway lines, in at least 9 tubes. 

I doubt if this plan will come to fruition though, Amsterdam is already debt-laden with their north-south subway line completely running out of hand financially.


----------



## Qaabus

The A2 in Utrecht by De Jong Luchtfotografie:


----------



## Timon91

Beautiful! I really like the first picture, it clearly shows the progress of the Landtunnel.


----------



## Coccodrillo

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovengrondse_tunnel_A2_bij_Leidsche_Rijn

Is it really only a sort of roof built _above_ ground?



> The *above-ground* tunnel to A2 Leidsche Rhine is a major infrastructure construction along the A2 at the height Utrecht. The tunnel will continue throughout the length above ground level and is under construction east of Leidsche Rhine and west of the current route of the A2.
> 
> The highway is covered here because the *necessary statutory noise* and air quality requirements by the road widening (to 2x5 lanes) and relocation of the A2 in the case would come. Also chosen for this solution to the barrier counter.
> 
> The construction of the new roofed stretch of highway started in 2007 and should be 2010 ready. The length of the tunnel is about 1650 meter, from the junction with the railway line Utrecht - Rotterdam to the junction with the Rhine Leiden. The tunnel is 80 meter wide with four tubes: two for the main lanes for through traffic and two for the parallelbanen for local traffic. The space on the roof is used for building and a park. The building cost 115 million euros.
> 
> In the tunnel no exits. The existing exit 7 (Oog in Al) on the route of the tunnel was therefore concluded on December 21, 2007 and replaced by a new exit at Lage Weide, about 3 kilometer north.


----------



## Timon91

That's right.


----------



## Atmosphere

Do we have an extreme high quality air requirement? Because I have the feeling that only we (holland) spend so much money on a tunnel that is above ground just to meet air quality standards :nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't think this tunnel was specifically built to meet air quality standards. I think it was built to reduce the physical barrier between the city of Utrecht and the new 90.000 inhabitants development Leidsche Rijn. 

I think this may end up to be one of the widest urban tunnels ever constructed. I mean, the Big Dig in Boston has like 8 lanes, is a lot longer, but this tunnel has like 14 lanes. 

However, I hope this tunnel doesn't lead to a precedent where every city with a motorway running through it will demand a tunnel. I mean, it was Utrecht's own choice to begin a development across the A2 motorway. The motorway construction started in 1938 on the west side of Utrecht. I don't feel it's fair that because of Utrecht's choice to expand the city westward, it has to fall on the burden of every taxpayer in the Netherlands. Such tunnels are very expensive, not only to construct, but also to maintain and operate.


----------



## Coccodrillo

If it is meant to eliminate a brrier, why it is above ground?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Because the soil in western Netherlands is like noodle soup. If they wanted to depress it, it was probably a lot more expensive. Current price tag for this tunnel is € 115 million.

For instance, the much smaller (in terms of width) north-south subway line in Amsterdam is bored at an expense of € 250 million per km. This land tunnel is € 70 million per km.


----------



## aswnl

Not to mention the physical barrier will stay because of the Amsterdam-Rhine-Channel...


----------



## da_scotty

But the difference is that a Canal is a more positive form of barrier which can be considered Nature Like, while a motorway surely cant


----------



## Suburbanist

They are both barriers anyway. Moreover, an above-tunnel can easily be converted into a giant "bump" if you fill the lateral edges with earth.

As for the soil of Netherlands, if I'm not wrong, one of the main problems are the fact they are very prone to water retention and, thus, very expensive to stabilize. But I heard than in Maastritch the underground bypass will be far easier to be built.


----------



## peezet

because of the tunnel hey can built much more dwellings next to it.
with a solotion with just barriers there was much more distance to the road


----------



## Timon91

Suburbanist said:


> As for the soil of Netherlands, if I'm not wrong, one of the main problems are the fact they are very prone to water retention and, thus, very expensive to stabilize. But I heard than in Maastritch the underground bypass will be far easier to be built.


Maastricht is in the Limburg area, where the soil is much more solid. Limburg is somewhat hilly, while the whole Randstad is completely flat (apart from the dunes and dikes). Since hills aren't made of a substance that has the same viscosity as pea soup, the soil in Limburg is much stronger


----------



## H123Laci

Atmosphere said:


> Do we have an extreme high quality air requirement? Because I have the feeling that only we (holland) spend so much money on a tunnel that is above ground just to meet air quality standards :nuts:



and how can a tunnel help to "meet air quality standards"?

does it reduce the emmission?

imho it does increase problems because it concentrates the emissions to the two portals of the tunnels...


----------



## Coccodrillo

There may be some ventilation shaft along the tunnel.


----------



## Timon91

There were quite some problems this morning due to snow. The A6 between Lelystad and Emmeloord has been closed for a few hours because the road surface was completely iced. The Ketelbrug (on this section of the A6) was closed because of jackknifed trucks that couldn't get up to the bridge (yes, even in this flat country we had this problem )


----------



## Suburbanist

What about precious salt?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I kind of got the idea they didn't expect this much snow. When I woke up, there was 10 cm on my car. I got on the road and even the main roads were not plowed at all, it was a mess. However, after 9 am, temperatures got above zero and it started melting rather quickly, so the main roads were clean at noon.


----------



## mappero

! Even do not tray to say something about travelling today. 
I spent almost 5 hours in my car driving from Groningen to Eindhoven. Normally it takes 2,25-2,75 hrs.
On Friday I've just bought Garmin nav system with TMC and I thought is not working correct this morning. But it was OK. I wanted avoid traffic, but snow on secondary roads covered everything 
Can I request any compensation from Dutch road department? I had cancelled my meetings, stay at work until 19:30, and so on... 
They should put salt before morning!! :bash:


----------



## Highwaycrazy

ChrisZwolle said:


> Because the soil in western Netherlands is like noodle soup. If they wanted to depress it, it was probably a lot more expensive. Current price tag for this tunnel is € 115 million.
> 
> For instance, the much smaller (in terms of width) north-south subway line in Amsterdam is bored at an expense of € 250 million per km. This land tunnel is € 70 million per km.


The Netherlands has an extensive network of Highways, considering much of the country is low-land. The cost of building roads in the NL must be much higher than other countries?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It wasn't very expensive until the late 1970's. Many roads were built on artificial dikes.

The first time they came across these problems was in the late 1920's, when new roads were built to bypass cities. These weren't motorways yet, but as most roads used to run across river dikes, the concept of a new bypass was new, and they had problems with the soil a lot back then. The first motorway, A12 opened in 1937, and was also built on an artificial dike. This is a relatively cheap way of road construction, yet it has some impact on the landscape, which is very flat. A12 between Gouda and Utrecht is pronounced pretty well in the landscape because it is slightly elevated above the surrounding pastures. 

Nowadays, road construction cost is much higher, even adjusted for inflation, due to numerous impact mitigation projects, increased labor and material cost, and not to mention bureaucracy, for the A2 tunnel in Maastricht, 1.000 official permits are needed, just to start construction.

It has to be noted any new dike or ramp in low-lying parts of the Netherlands require at least one year of consolidation before actual construction can begin. If they don't take this time, and start construction right away, the road will subside in a few years. This problem is visible on certain roads, most notably N3, N11 and A15 to my knowledge, which are like driving on a golf course, it goes up and down all the time.


----------



## Suburbanist

As for *****, are the dike for future expansion of A4 between Rotterdam and Den Haag completely built already? On Google Earth it seems that it is only a matter of putting the tarmac over it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, the embankment was built in the 1960's. However, as it didn't get maintenance or proper drainage, it isn't suitable for motorway constructiong right now, but it would be possible to rebuilt this embankment easily. My guess is the cheapest solution to construct A4 here would require like € 50 million. However, the motorway will be depressed, and partially covered, and the construction costs are more likely € 750 million.


----------



## da_scotty

Which is ridiculous...

Long live Nimbyism in the Netherlands, a lot of people in that area want to conflicting things... 

- The Goverment is bad, they don't solve our traffic problem, they should widen roads, so that I can drive to work properly
-The same goverment decides to build a Motorway to relieve the traffic in the Randstad, but oww noo... not in my backyard, we should'nt build this road because it might influence the peace in my neighbourhood.. 

Pfff its not that because of the motorway the noice problem will increase with a billion zillion dB... as the local politicians (SP) and unknowing people always seem to think..


----------



## bleetz

How strong is the structure of the landtunnel? Are these just covers or is it a proper structure on top of which you can build other roads that intersect the motorway?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

As far as I know, there are buildings and a park planned on top of it.


----------



## Timon91

Nice report! I've never been on the Markerwaarddijk, but I'd love to go there some time. I've been to Marken, but it was about 10 years ago :lol:


----------



## Palance

The Markerwaarddijk was built for a later extraction of land from the water for the Markerwaard so that the new land ('polder') could be use for new cities, like in the Flevopolder. But it never happened. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markermeer for more information

@Chris: The name "Dijk Enkhuizen-Lelystad" is commonly used in traffic information. As is the official roadnumber N302.

And it was my first time here as well


----------



## Palance

And finally some 'real highway'-pictures. The A9 from knoopunt Holendrecht to the A4 at Schiphol (Amsterdam Airport)








Route op Google Maps.

Foto's:


----------



## seem

Why there is a green line in the middle of road? I have never seen such a think like that on a road in Europe. Maybe, it`s quite common in NL, but I have never been there. What a pity. 



>


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It means you're on an "Autoweg" (express road). This usually means a speed limit of 100 km/h.

Although 100 km/h still feels like walking on that endless dike because you have no point of reference. I was once doing 140 km/h unnoticed, but it felt like 100 km/h. It's an awesome drive if you have no slowpoke in front of you.


----------



## seem

ChrisZwolle said:


> It means you're on an "Autoweg" (express road). This usually means a speed limit of 100 km/h.
> 
> Although 100 km/h still feels like walking on that endless dike because you have no point of reference. I was once doing 140 km/h unnoticed, but it felt like 100 km/h. It's an awesome drive if you have no slowpoke in front of you.


Thank you. Your express roads have just 2 lanes? So, that means in NL you have only Autosnelwegen and than Autoweg _(maybe like our 1. class roads?)_. I thought that Autoweg can be something like our express road _(R = Rýchlostná cesta)_ with 4 lanes. 

PS: I realy don`t understand why do we have (SR and other states in EU) express roads when they are like normal motorways. :nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some _Autowegen_ have 2x2 lanes and limited access, but they usually lack shoulders and have a speed limit of 100 km/h. 

So they are definitely of lower design than R-roads in Slovakia or the Czech Republic. We don't have a lot of real expressways like the German Autobahnähnliche Straße or the Rýchlostná cesta.


----------



## seem

ChrisZwolle said:


> Some _Autowegen_ have 2x2 lanes and limited access, but they usually lack shoulders and have a speed limit of 100 km/h.
> 
> So they are definitely of lower design than R-roads in Slovakia or the Czech Republic. We don't have a lot of real expressways like the German Autobahnähnliche Straße or the Rýchlostná cesta.


I see. So I realy don`t understand why do we have R-roads. Btw, on our R-roads is speed limit of 110 km/h, but in fact, they are like a normal motorways.R-road in Slovakia also have junctions like a motorway. 

It means your Autowegen is like our _I class road_?

for example - 

btw, it can also have 4 lanes


----------



## lambersart2005

oh I really liked the old dark blue signage in the netherlands. Too sad, they abolished those signs and colors... so pure


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Rijkswaterstaat will begin with preparing roadworks for the widening of A50 between interchange Grijsoord and interchange Valburg tomorrow (Tuesday February 16th, 2010).

This motorway currently carries 90,000 AADT on 2x2 lanes, and heavy congestion occurs here, often in both directions during rush hour. Traffic jams are typically up to 12 - 17 km long here. 

The real widening will take place between summer 2010 and summer 2011.


----------



## da_scotty

To which extent?? 2*3??

And further down, what about the widening between Valburg and Ewijk??


----------



## Qwert

I remember seeing photos of 2x1 road with median and quite wide hard shoulder, it was basically like motorway but only with one driving lane per direction, but I'm unable to find them. Anyone knows where they are?

Something like this, but with wider median and hard shoulders:











seem said:


> I see. So I realy don`t understand why do we have R-roads. Btw, on our R-roads is speed limit of 110 km/h, but in fact, they are like a normal motorways.R-road in Slovakia also have junctions like a motorway.


R roads have general speed limit 130 km/h, not 110:nuts:.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's N50. Quite an exception.


----------



## Koesj

da_scotty said:


> To which extent?? 2*3??
> 
> And further down, what about the widening between Valburg and Ewijk??


Both the interchanges will be extensively rebuilt and the A50 is going to be widened to 2*4 lanes with an additional steel bridge built over the Waal river.


----------



## Qwert

ChrisZwolle said:


> That's N50. Quite an exception.


Thank you, we were talking about an idea to built Slovak D1 between Košice and Ukrainian border in similar alignment, but it's just and idea which won't come true.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

da_scotty said:


> To which extent??  2*3??


Yes, 2x3 lanes, plus shoulders.

The most amazing thing is procedures to widen A50 were already started in the mid-1990's. The first document "Trajectnota" was published in 1996. So after 14 years, it's about damn time.


----------



## Coccodrillo

Qwert said:


> I remember seeing photos of 2x1 road with median and quite wide hard shoulder, it was basically like motorway but only with one driving lane per direction, but I'm unable to find them. Anyone knows where they are?


I know also this one in Switzerland: http://maps.google.ch/maps?f=q&sour...d=sX8FB2AokgypI-MGmtXdPg&cbp=12,32.77,,0,6.21


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Single lane roads with shoulders are quite common in Europe, look in Spain or Portugal for example. In the Netherlands, such things are considered overdone, so they design it as tight as possible. I don't think you'll find many countries with roads that carry 20,000 AADT and have a lane width of 2.75 m.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Currently, the Dutch cabinet is on the verge of collapsing. Normally I don't like shortened terms for continuity's sake, but this will probably mean the end of the km charge for now if the cabinet falls. 

However, recent events have shown a near-collapse of the cabinet before, so I won't cheer too soon about this.


----------



## Suburbanist

Haven't the Dutch PM survived a motion of no confidence yesterday?

As long as the new government keep the plans to construct the highways near Amsterdam and between Rotterdam and Den Haag, it is ok for me (I'm kidding, I barely arrived last June and I don't know much about Dutch politics besides the fact that Geert Wilders was leading some polls last October or something like that).


----------



## bijtkonijn

Here are some of wilders' plans: 

- higher maximum speeds on most highways.

- improvements of the infrastructure, mostly highways.

- lower infrastructure taxes.

- removing the climate taxes on certain cars.

- the construction of more ecoducts.

I haven't seen the local plans yet.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Wilders doesn't participate in the local elections, so he probably doesn't have plans for that. 

I don't see higher speed limits coming into fruition with the safetyphobia in the Netherlands. Not politicians, but certain semi-government groups are most responsible for that (SWOV, CROW, etc). Only politicians change the laws, but they do that based on recommendations by aforementioned organizations.


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> http://www.rijkswaterstaat.nl/images/Brochure Nieuwe Bewegwijzering Autosnelwegen_tcm174-183277.pdf


I'm taking an intensive course in Dutch, yet I remained with a doubt: was the redesigned signing plan done mainly to accommodate ubiquitous satellite navigators, so drivers could easily see road signs helping them to see where they should drive, which lane to bear etc?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, it is only noted that the upward arrows are similar to that in GPS's, which would make a stronger point for using them. 

The real point of the upward arrows was to reflect the upcoming road situation better. Downwards arrows are not suited for this, especially in taper situations at interchanges. Some say traffic congestion has been reduced due to the new signage at some interchanges.


----------



## aswnl

MAG said:


> Is there anything more in-depth and technical?
> I am looking for this level of detail..


Yes, there is. But it is not public yet.


----------



## Tom 958

ChrisZwolle said:


> No, it is only noted that the upward arrows are similar to that in GPS's, which would make a stronger point for using them.
> 
> The real point of the upward arrows was to reflect the upcoming road situation better. Downwards arrows are not suited for this, especially in taper situations at interchanges. Some say traffic congestion has been reduced due to the new signage at some interchanges.


Two of the three examples mislabel non-optional exit lanes as optional ones. :nuts: Hopefully the actual installations don't do that!


----------



## MAG

aswnl said:


> Yes, there is. But it is not public yet.


Any chance of letting me have an unofficial copy while you are waiting to publish? 
Antwoord via PM, aub.

.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't think that will happen, MAG


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A28/A50, Interchange Hattemerbroek*

Pavement on A28 was once again completely destroyed by winter weather, it's about the 8th time this winter that they had to close a lane due to unacceptable pavement conditions. 

1.









2.









3. 









4.









5.









6.


----------



## CptSchmidt

I really wish that our signage in Canada could look as nice as the Polish redesign. I think the US/Canada style looks old and cheaply thrown together. Their design is inconsistent, as well. Some signs will be centred while some will be right-aligned. Pictures are thrown confusingly on them sometimes, too. Some are written all in caps while others aren't. 

European styles, especially the new Polish one, are very nice.


----------



## Norsko

CptSchmidt said:


> I really wish that our signage in Canada could look as nice as the Polish redesign. I think the US/Canada style looks old and cheaply thrown together. Their design is inconsistent, as well. Some signs will be centred while some will be right-aligned. Pictures are thrown confusingly on them sometimes, too. Some are written all in caps while others aren't.
> 
> European styles, especially the new Polish one, are very nice.


New Polish signage?
Any photos?


----------



## Fuzzy Llama

^^
Uh, guise, for the millionth time - there is no new Polish signage 

There is a totally unofficial proposition made by SSC genius, MAG (linked somewhere in this page), and currently there is a struggle to interest the authorities with it. 
In case of any progress I guarentee that the Polish thread will become totally flooded with enthusiastic comments and every piece of news we will be able to gather.

And now back to Dutch roads. I've heard that they even have some motorways


----------



## Norsko

Trust you on that one! Just had to ensure me I had not missed out on something this important. :hahaha:


----------



## Des

Just heard on the radio that a lot of highways stretches are closed or limited to 1 driveable lane tonight because of high priority repairs. 



> A12
> Utrecht - Den Haag
> Verbindingsweg afgesloten
> Oorzaak: Wegwerkzaamheden
> A20
> Gouda - Hoek van Holland
> Verbindingsweg afgesloten
> Oorzaak: Wegwerkzaamheden
> A12
> Den Haag - Utrecht
> Afgesloten
> Oorzaak: Wegwerkzaamheden
> A9
> Amstelveen - Diemen
> Verbindingsweg afgesloten
> Oorzaak: Wegwerkzaamheden
> A16
> Antwerpen - Breda
> Verbindingsweg afgesloten
> Oorzaak: Wegwerkzaamheden
> A12
> Den Haag - Utrecht
> Verbindingsweg afgesloten
> Oorzaak: Wegwerkzaamheden
> A1
> Amsterdam - Amersfoort
> Verbindingsweg afgesloten
> Oorzaak: Wegwerkzaamheden
> A27
> Gorinchem - Utrecht
> Verbindingsweg afgesloten
> Oorzaak: Wegwerkzaamheden
> A50
> Zwolle - Apeldoorn
> Afgesloten
> Oorzaak: Wegwerkzaamheden
> N50
> Zwolle - Emmeloord
> Afgesloten
> Oorzaak: Spoedreparatie
> 
> A1
> Afnemend
> Apeldoorn - Hengelo
> Tussen Deventer-Oost en Lochem op de Zuidbaan
> 4 km langzaam rijdend tot stilstaand verkeer
> 
> Oorzaak: Wegwerkzaamheden


----------



## SeanT

How many Kms of motorways do you have, which is buildt of concret(asphalt)?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Concrete? Almost none... the last major concrete section, on A1 Hengelo - German border is currently being repaved with asphalt. 

A270 is still concrete, but it's only a few km long near Eindhoven. The next longest concrete section has to be A28 between Utrecht and Amersfoort, I think it's 10 or 15 km long.


----------



## SeanT

It is because I ´ve red in some hungarian forums that concrete is the best way of building motorways, about maintainence and so on, but the only place it is used in H is the M0 section around Bp.
What do you think about that?


----------



## crcorp

I have the tendency to say that it's a bad idea of using concrete for highway pavement. It's not without a proper reason that the old concrete highways are being replaced by asphalt in most West-European countries. Personally, when driving in Belgium I regularly encounter contrete pavements and I have the impression (but I'm not fully sure, to be confirmed by others) that concrete is more slippery (especially during winter and rainy conditions), it is *very noisy* and I also have the impression that it is more sensitive to cracks (as a result of freezing water). Asphalt can extend/shrink a bit without cracking.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The initial costs of concrete are higher, but if done correctly, it can go a long time without needing replacement. But that is also the disadvantage, if concrete cracks, you cannot repair it as nice and easy as asphalt. 

They have put concrete at some traffic light intersections in my city to prevent accelerating truck traffic creating camel pavement, but it has over 50 patched-up cross-cracks in only 100 meters. Now this is quite extreme, but it can happen. 

Another disadvantage in Europe with concrete is the noise level. The noise norms in Europe are quite strict, and it's hard to achieve it with concrete, because it is significantly more noisy, think about +3 dB compared to regular asphalt concrete. Porous asphalt can have a reduction of -3 to -4 dB, which means there is up to 7 dB difference with concrete. Now that is significant.


----------



## bijtkonijn

SeanT said:


> It is because I ´ve red in some hungarian forums that concrete is the best way of building motorways, about maintainence and so on, but the only place it is used in H is the M0 section around Bp.
> What do you think about that?



A large section of the A28 highway between Amersfoort and Utrecht are made of concrete, not? 

@ChrisZwolle: Do you know more about that? Last time I drove there, I were sure the road was made of concrete between Amersfoort and Soesterberg/Den Dolder.....

Maybe you know more? Besides Zwolle lies at the A28.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ 


ChrisZwolle said:


> ...
> The next longest concrete section has to be A28 between Utrecht and Amersfoort, I think it's 10 or 15 km long.


It's interesting to note that the concrete sections of both A1 and A28 opened around roughly the same time. Maybe it was a fashion to use concrete in the late 1980's.


----------



## rotterdam sky-high

Rotterdam has the busiest and grooste ring of the benelux! Also Rotterdam as only city of the benelux much fly-overs have and a large breadth of the way, frequently of 4 up to 6 lanes!

interchange Ridderkerk: (Rotterdam South)










interchange Vaanplein: (Rotterdam South)










interchange Kleinpolderplein: (Rotterdam North)










interchange Tebregseplein: (Rotterdam East)










interchange Kethelplein: (Rotterdam West)










interchange Benelux: (Rotterdam South)










Two nice small films with a car on the ring Rotterdam:

Highway A16: (ring Rotterdam East)





Highway trougt the heaven: (industrial highway, ring Rotterdam South)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

rotterdam sky-high said:


> motorway button point Benelux: (Rotterdam South)


That is Antwerpen-Zuid (R1/A112) in Belgium.

By the way "motorway button point" is a far too literal translation of the Dutch word "knooppunt". (a "knoop" can also mean button (in clothing)). Interchange would be better.


----------



## rotterdam sky-high

^^
:nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The record of decision has been taken by caretaker minister Eurlings to construct the N31 Leeuwarden bypass.

The N31 will be a limited-access _autoweg_ with 2x2 lanes and grade separation. It will connect the A31 west of the city and N31 expressway south of the city, thus providing a bypass. 

Construction will start in 2011 and is due to be completed in 2013.


----------



## Palance

rotterdam sky-high said:


> interchange Vaanplein: (Rotterdam West)


Vaanplein is south of Rotterdam (on the border with Barendrecht), not at the west at all.


----------



## rotterdam sky-high

^^
I have adapted it!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another record of decision has been signed today. The A15 between Rozenburg and interchange Vaanplein, on the south side of Rotterdam will be widened.

The section from Rozenburg to Spijkenisse will be widened from 4 to 6 lanes. The section from Spijkenisse to IC Vaanplein will be widened from 6 to 10 lanes, with a local/express setup.

Construction will take place from 2010 to 2015. Procedures started in 1997.


----------



## mappero

It's great info. I had a lot of experienced with traffic jams there...


----------



## Timon91

That's good news, but really, it takes way too long. Procedures started in 1997 :nuts:

I shouldn't complain though, at least they're going to widen it


----------



## MAG

ChrisZwolle said:


> Another record of decision has been signed today ... The section from Rozenburg to Spijkenisse will be widened from 4 to 6 lanes. The section from Spijkenisse to IC Vaanplein will be widened from 6 to 10 lanes, with a local/express setup.
> 
> Construction will take place from 2010 to 2015. Procedures started in 1997.


I've watched the A15 grow fatter and fatter over the years and I keep wondering when will it all end. It is an impressive highway already with top-notch traffic flow solutions (tunnels, over/under-passes etc) and enviable pavement quality. 

It may surprise you to know that I have never run into any traffic jam on the A15/N15. Maybe it is a statistical fluke but I have not got a single complaint about this part of the Netherland's impressive autosnelweg network.

Anyway, good to see that this investment is going ahead. 
I can see why this is being done and it is a pity that it's taken since '98 to get this far. 


.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A15 has daily congestion between Spijkenisse and IC Vaanplein. I think the A15 has a higher priority because it is the ONLY hinterland connection from the port of Rotterdam, which is one of the largest ports in the world. Congestion and blockings immediately cause severe economic damage. 

A15 is bound to be the busiest truck route in Europe, and possibly the world, with estimated truck counts of 50,000 by 2025. This is unheard of. This freeway already saw 35,000 trucks per day in 2006. And an enlargement of the port is currently underway, increasing freight throughput.


----------



## Uppsala

Palance said:


> Foto's:


Don’t they now replace this old catenary lighting with more modern lights now? I think Netherlands and the UK have very similar streetlights at the motorways.


----------



## SeanT

Motorway lights are pretty much the same around Copenhagen too, except the widened stretch near Greve.


----------



## Uppsala

SeanT said:


> Motorway lights are pretty much the same around Copenhagen too, except the widened stretch near Greve.


Yes it is catenary lighting around Copenhagen. But it looks like they want to replace it. But in Copenhagen they have high pressure sodium at the catenary lighting. But in Netherlands and the UK they have low pressure sodium at the catenary lighting. And like I said before, I think lights in Netherlands and in the UK are very similar. Most of the lights they have in Netherlands are also in the UK. Also in Hamburg at the A7/E45 near Elbtunnel you can find catenary lighting with low pressure sodium

And by the way, I have never seen low pressure sodium in Denmark at all. Maybe Denmark never used low pressure sodium? Not even at motorways?


----------



## mgk920

ChrisZwolle said:


> A15 is bound to be the busiest truck route in Europe, and possibly the world, with estimated truck counts of 50,000 by 2025. This is unheard of. This freeway already saw 35,000 trucks per day in 2006. And an enlargement of the port is currently underway, increasing freight throughput.


How do these truck/lorry numbers compare with I-80/94 at the Illinois/Indiana state line just outside of Chicago (likely the busiest truck/lorry route in the USA)?

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ I expected such a question 

The I-80/I-94 near the Indiana state line carries 41,800 trucks per day. The I-710 (Long Beach Freeway) in California comes second at 39,000 trucks per day.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yet another record of decision has been signed by minister Eurlings. This time it's for a second Waal river bridge in A50 between IC Valburg and IC Ewijk (near Nijmegen). The motorway will be widened from 2x2 to 2x4 lanes. 

Procedures are also near the end for the adjacent northern section to IC Grijsoord which will be widened from 2x2 to 2x3 lanes.

Let them machines roll! 

Things are finally getting on the road since 2005. 20 years late, but better late than never, I guess.


----------



## mappero

Great!!! No more traffic there for me and not only me!! 
Machine is starting rolling faster because of government election in autumn? :]


----------



## ChrisZwolle

mappero said:


> Machine is starting rolling faster because of government election in autumn? :]


No, procedures take too long in the Netherlands to have anything to do with elections. 11 - 15 years is common, which means there have been elections for like 3 times.

For example, A15 procedures started in 1997, N31 procedures started in 2002 and A50 procedures started in 1996. 

The fact that it takes 10 - 15 years from the initial procedures to the start of the road works is simply appalling. 

And those are still relatively quick projects, planning of A4 or A11 started already in the 1950's and 1960's and still isn't done.


----------



## mappero

Wow! So longer even than in Poland! I can't believe


----------



## Timon91

Luckily the record decision was also made to build the A4 just east of Steenbergen, connecting the southermost part of the A4 and the A29: see it on the map


----------



## Carldiff

Just wanted to say I passed the weekend in Amsterdam and it was amazing, we drove there from the UK in my Tigra, and aside from all the speed bumps around suburban Amsterdam it was awesome, the place is so easy to navigate, and the Dutch motorways are a pleasure to use. Plus we didn't need to buy petrol there, the price of which seems to be the only downside of motoring in the Nederlands.


----------



## Timon91

You haven't experienced any traffic jams? Lucky you


----------



## rotterdam sky-high

This is a very press and urban interchange, but Rotterdam have the longest and busiest highway-ring of the Benelux.



> This is a very press and urban interchange.


with that I mean this :


----------



## Palance

Time for some pictures.

The Dutch route 44 exists of the N44 (non-highway from Den Haag to the rich village of Wassenaar) and the A44 (highway from Wassenaar northbound).

Pictures are from last Tuesday. The weather was fine, until the last part of the A44, where I suddenly drove in some fog.

Route:










Some pictures:












































































The entire album:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~egavic/ASN/02-03-10/N44-A44/album/


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice. A44 is a weird little freeway, rather substandard and one of the last in the Randstad metro to have a 120 km/h speed limit. According to the traffic information, the southbound end of A44 to N44 is almost always jammed citing "large delays".


----------



## Timon91

I know that section quite well. The end of that motorway can be quite frustrating. I've once been waiting there for 30 minutes in the late morning, but I've also had once that I didn't have to wait, even though it was quite a busy rush hour. Quite exceptional.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Without a doubt, the most significant road overhaul is on the A2 motorway. Here is a project by project overview:

*IC Holendrecht - IC Oudenrijn*
map @ Gmaps
Widening from 2x3 to 2x5 lanes, with a local/express setup near Utrecht.
length: 27 km
completion: 2011

*IC Oudenrijn - IC Everdingen*
map @ Gmaps
widening from 4+3/2x3 to 2x4 lanes. 
length: 11 km
completion: 2011

*IC Everdingen - IC Deil*
map @ Gmaps
widening from 2x2 to 2x4 lanes
length: 16 km
completion: 2010

*IC Deil - IC Hintham*
map @ Gmaps
widening from 2x2 to 2x3 lanes. 
length: 17 km
completion: 1996 / 1-2010 (completed)

*IC Hintham - IC Vught*
map @ Gmaps
widening from 2x3 to 4x2 lanes
length: 8 km
completion: 2010 (completed)

*IC Vught - IC Ekkersweijer*
map @ Gmaps
widening from 2x2 to 2x3 lanes
length: 22 km
completion: 2013

*IC Ekkersweijer - IC Leenderheide*
map @ Gmaps
widening from 2x2/2x3 to 4x2 lanes
length: 17 km
completion: 2010

*IC Leenderheide - Valkenswaard*
map @ Gmaps
Widening of the southbound roadway to 3 lanes
length: 7 km
completion: 2011

*Sint Joost - IC Kerensheide*
map @ Gmaps
Temporary widening from 2x2 to 2x2 with shoulder running.
length: 20 km
completion: 2010 / 2013

*Maastricht*
map @ Gmaps
Construction of a double-deck tunnel with a total of 4x2 lanes. 
length: 4 km
completion: 2016


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A50 Heteren - IC Valburg*

The pavement was completely destroyed on A50, so they decided to scrape off the entire top layer of pavement. Now it looks like this.


----------



## Timon91

Seems to be pleasant to drive on


----------



## mgk920

'Milling' old asphalt off of roads like that is pretty 'SOP' here in the USA. The stuff that is scraped off is then taken to a mixing plant, turned into new paving material and put back on the road.

Neat conservation of resources.

:cheers1:

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, they recycle it in the Netherlands as well - and why not. However, scraped-off surfaces on motorways are very rare, if it happens, it's during construction, and not for like two months like it is now. I believe the pavement was already like this in January. 

They will widen that motorway to 2x3 lanes from this year, but I think they're not gonna wait with repaving it. This is very dangerous at night with no road markings.


----------



## mappero

I am driving on this surface every Monday morning. Today also. Has something good - better traction so easier to brake  and also more noise - make you wake up


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A2 Amsterdam - Utrecht is gonna be soooo wide 








photo by the runner


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This is a funny sign on A2 Deil - Everdingen (south of Utrecht). At first, roadworks started to widen A2 to 2x3 lanes with additional reservation for 2x4 lanes. During roadworks, procedures were started to widen this section to 2x4 immediately, because the 2x2 volumes were already around 100,000 AADT and 2x3 would not be enough in the long term, so they wanted to do it right immediately, and widen it to 2x4 lanes. 

The reason why this worked is that the road works took a very long time, the old 2x2 A2 had narrow bridges and overpasses that all had to be replaced, it wasn't just putting in some extra asphalt, for example on the hideously antiquated Linge bridge near Beesd. That bridge opened in 1936 and wasn't really anticipated on high traffic volumes. It has now been replaced by a wider 8-lane bridge. These long-term roadworks allowed enough time to get through procedures. 

It's interesting to note they already began building the 4th lane in the median before the green light was given. If it didn't work out, they would just made it a left shoulder for the time being. They knew they could get the green light eventually, even if procedures were delayed.


----------



## Uppsala

ChrisZwolle said:


> A2 Amsterdam - Utrecht is gonna be soooo wide
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> photo by the runner


No catenary lighting at this motorway. But still lights in the same style like in the UK. Most of the lights at the motorways in Netherlands have the same style at the lights like they have in the UK. Sometimes when I’m driving at the motorways in Netherlands I think they look British but with right hand traffic.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Projected traffic volumes around Amsterdam in 2020.

The first figure is the reference volume, and the second one with the construction of the second Coen Tunnel and A5 extension (which are currently both under construction).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another major project is the widening of A50.

Currently, this motorway has 2x2 lanes, and carries 90,000 AADT north of A15 and 105,000 AADT south of A15. It is seriously congested in both directions, with traffic jams as long as 10 - 15 km on a daily basis, which also cause congestion on adjacent A12, A15 and A73.

The section between A73 and A15 will be widened from 4 to 8 lanes. This means a new bridge across the Waal river has to be constructed. This new bridge will carry 4 lanes in the southbound direction. The existing bridge will carry 4 lanes in the northbound direction, divided on 2x2 because of the existing pylons in the center of the bridge. So this bridge will carry 4+2x2 lanes. 

Works will start in 2010 and are to be completed in 2014.

The section between A15 and A12 will be widened from 4 to 6 lanes, with a regular widening to 2x3 lanes. Works will start in 2010 and are to be completed in 2011.


----------



## mappero

Now is like on this pictures below. Not in peak hours.


----------



## da_scotty

We should maybe considder this as a bad bad day for dutch motorist/infrastructurist..

Maybe the best Transport Minister we ever had, Camiel Eurlings, has decided that he will not resume a career in Politics.

IMHO its a real shame, he did so many good things, and finally got some projects trough the pipeline!!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yep, apart from the km tolls, he was one of the best ministers we had. Well, at least we have a legacy of over 30 freeway projects in next couple of years.


----------



## ABRob

ChrisZwolle said:


> Projected traffic volumes around Amsterdam in 2020.
> 
> The first figure is the reference volume, and the second one with the construction of the second Coen Tunnel and A5 extension (which are currently both under construction).


63.000, 73.000, 96.000 - and A5 will be only 2x2!?hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

60,000 - 80,000 is not really seen as problematic for 2x2 in the Netherlands. Hundreds of kilometers of 2x2 motorway have such volumes without any plans to widen them. 

96,000 would push it though.


----------



## Des

How about 244.000 on the 2x3 near A4 Sloten? Seems to be quite a lot for a 2x3.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There is shoulder running planned there. To be completed in April 2011. However, you need at least 10 permanent lanes to handle that kind of traffic.

244,000 is theoretically impossible on 2x3. The highest 2x3 counts are found on A13 and A20 near Rotterdam at 180,000 AADT. Even New York City Expressways don't get that much on 2x3.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Roadworks will begin tonight to add shoulder running on 17 kilometers of southbound A2 in southern Netherlands, between Interchange Het Vonderen (A73) and exit Urmond near Geleen. It is supposed to be completed by the end of 2010. A total of 16 SOS niches will be added to the motorway. Shoulder running in the northbound direction will be added next year. 

Interchange Kerensheide (A2/A76) just south of that will be changed with a direct fly-over from A2 to A76 east between 2011 and 2013. 

Adding to that, there will be large-scale renovation between Kelpen to Wessem, so A2 from Weert to Geleen will be pretty problematic the next two years.

This section of A2 carried 75,000 to 94,000 AADT on 2x2 in 2006.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The design-record of decision of the A4 Dinteloord - Halsteren will be available to public from March 16th, for a period of 6 weeks.

This is the southernmost missing link out of three missing links in the A4 motorway (Amsterdam - Antwerpen). The new motorway will have 2x2 lanes and feature and aqueduct near Steenbergen. It will pass along the west side of Steenbergen, although this means more mileage than an eastern bypass, which has been considered unfeasible.


----------



## Coccodrillo

And what about the othe rmissing parts?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There were plans to open Delft - Rotterdam with 2+3 lanes by 2015. However, the collapse of the Dutch government made these plans uncertain, there is a significant chance it is delayed. 

As for Rotterdam - Klaaswaal, there are currently no plans to construct this section. The A15 is being widened to 10 lanes between 2011 and 2015. The detour here isn't very bad, but constructing this missing links would make the network much more robust, with so many rivers and lack of crossings, it is not uncommon to have waiting times in excess of 1 hour at the ferries when an incident has taken place on A15 or A29.


----------



## Carldiff

So the A4 is just in several pieces? Why would you want to go that way between Amsterdam and Antwerp anyway? Why not take the A2 and A27 and go Utrecht - Breda - Antwerp. That's what I do when I'm going to Calais.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's just a route that happen to run from Amsterdam to Antwerpen. Overall, the entire route is not interesting but the far majority of the traffic doesn't use more than 30 kilometers of it. Truck traffic uses the A16 via Breda. So even with it not being an important through route, filling up the gaps mostly improves regional traffic - heck almost any motorway caters mostly regional traffic (<50 km). 

Real long-distance traffic from northern Netherlands uses the A27.


----------



## Coccodrillo

Dutch mountains!


----------



## Timon91

This is a real mountain in the Netherlands! Road going up the Holterberg (berg = mountain) . I am serious. This is no joke.


----------



## H123Laci

Coccodrillo said:


> And what about the othe rmissing parts?



And what about the "Cisalpino? No, thank you." ? :lol:


----------



## Coccodrillo

^^ Average delay of the train I use mostly: http://www.cessoalpino.com/en/2010/trains/24/ (one of the seven that have not been canceled, on my line there were 15 daily and usually on time trains in 2008, there are 7 and often late in 2010).


----------



## Palance

A trip of last week through Amsterdam:

Route:

Route:









*Clich here for the album*

Preview:


----------



## rarse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtlkZ6HWNgU

Hey Chris. Cheers for that video.

I like the idea of physically separated lanes on straight and relative fast 2x1 roads. + the hard shoulder - whoa

If I remember correctly I saw physical separated road nr 40 west of Jönköping, Sweden on 2+1 Jönköping - Borås.

Are there some other places with physical split?

I suppose this road will be once upgraded to 2x2?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N31/A31 Zurich - Leeuwarden*

Some pics of the N31 expressway and A31 motorway from Zurich to Leeuwarden.

1. N31









2. Loopbrug over de N31.









3. Eén van de twee OK-tankstations in Nederland die mij bekend zijn (de andere is bij Nieuwegein).









4. Afslag Kimswerd. 









5. N31 buiten proportie.









6. Dit stuk 2x2 rijdt heerlijk.









7. De N31 loopt hier strak langs de Waddenzee, maar je ziet er niks van.









8. Harlingen. De N31 versmalt hier kortstondig naar 1x2 rijstroken, maar blijft wel ongelijkvloers.









9. 









10. Afslag Harlingen.









11. Foutieve toepassing van de markering, alleen de Vmax wordt hier verlaagd naar 80, maar het blijft wel een autoweg. Had dus groen moeten zijn eigenlijk.









12. Beweegbare brug over het Van Harinxmakanaal.









13. NBA bordje naar Harlingen-Havens.









14. Hier begint de snelweg alweer, de 1x2 onderbreking is niet veel meer dan 2 of 3 kilometer.









15. Afslag Midlum.









16. Loopbrug over de A31 (leek me te steil voor fietsers)









17. Afslag Franeker met wit uitgeslagen panelen.









18. Over een paar jaar kunnen we ongelijkvloers naar Drachten.









19. Afslag Franeker.









20. Hier ligt één of ander superstil asfalt. Ik had een beetje het gevoel weinig contact meer te hebben met het wegdek. 









21. Afslag Dronrijp.









22. Het leek wel of ze hier overdreven met zout hebben gestrooid, maar het heeft al dagen niet meer gevroren. De weg was bijna wit soms.









23. Tankstation de Mieden.









24. Het doorgaande verkeer naar Drachten wordt hier geacht af te slaan.









25. De N383 gaat dan verder.









26. De snelweg gaat over in een 2x2 autoweg.









27. Nog een loopbrug over de weg.









28. De skyline van Leeuwarden.









29. Even voor het einde van de autoweg begint een parallele busbaan die de files kan omzeilen.









30. Een soort pyramide.









31. Ljouwert.


----------



## Vallex

wait,wait..Sexbierum?!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's right Sex-Beer-Rum!


----------



## da_scotty

One of the most reguarly stolen city-signs in the Nethelands, together with the huge city of "Netherlands" (one street)


----------



## Jeroen669

rarse said:


> I like the idea of physically separated lanes on straight and relative fast 2x1 roads. + the hard shoulder - whoa


This is imo worse than a regular 2x1 road. Spending loads of money to build a 2X2 road, while opening only one lane per direction. hno: This should have been build as a motorway right away...



> Are there some other places with physical split?


New regional roads in the province of South-Holland are now often build als 1+1 with a median of a few meters. No barrier and no emergency lanes...


----------



## Coccodrillo

rarse said:


> Are there some other places with physical split?


http://maps.google.ch/maps?f=q&sour...d=7WJJeVGHtuZgjZ08uCYQZQ&cbp=12,43.95,,0,1.18


----------



## hofburg

nice. didn't know that there is another Zurich in Netherlands.


----------



## rarse

Coccodrillo said:


> http://maps.google.ch/maps?f=q&sourc...,43.95,,0,1.18


Thank you.



Jeroen669 said:


> This is imo worse than a regular 2x1 road. Spending loads of money to build a 2X2 road, while opening only one lane per direction. hno: This should have been build as a motorway right away...
> 
> 
> 
> New regional roads in the province of South-Holland are now often build als 1+1 with a median of a few meters. No barrier and no emergency lanes...


I definitely support motorways so I agree with you that motorway should be built from the beginning. There would be also less costs at the end.

BUT

If they already did 2x1 only, it is in my opinion safer with physical split. Safety is why I like those barriers on 2x1 roads.


----------



## Suburbanist

rarse said:


> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> If they already did 2x1 only, it is in my opinion safer with physical split. Safety is why I like those barriers on 2x1 roads.


Then why don't they update speed accordingly? 

Still, I don't think such scheme would be viable in any non-flat country xD I was just imaging getting behind a truck over a 42-curve mountain pass ascent approach like passo dello Stelvio.


----------



## Timon91

Nice pics, Chris! The N/A31 is always nice to drive. I remember that I made my first roadpics of the A7 and the N/A31


----------



## Timon91

Time for more pics 

A1 Hengelo-German border

Last sunday Chris and I drove from Zwolle to Steinfurt, thereby passing the A1 between Hengelo and Germany. Apart from the A28 near Utrecht, this is the last concrete motorway in the Netherlands. However, it's being reconstructed at the moment and only a little bit of it is left. This part of the A1 really gives one a feeling of "you're almost in Germany, but you're not there yet".

1. Passing a Lithuanian truck. The A1 is known for the large amount of trucks using it (on weekdays). It's the main route from the Randstad to Northern Germany, Scandinavia and a significant part of Central Europe.










2. Empty motorway.










3. It wasn't busy this sunday.










4. 










5. Exit Oldenzaal ahead.










6. New signage, old pavement.










7. 










8. Osnabrück 90 km.










9. Roadworks ahead.










10. Unsharp pic of a tiny part that has already been repaved. 










11. Roadworks.










12. Roadworks for the next 5 km.










13. This part is still concrete.










14. 










15. Luckily it wasn't too busy. I wonder what will happen on friday next week (Good Friday), when trucks aren't allowed to drive in Germany.










16. 2 km of roadworks to go.










17. The Hengelo-Bad Bentheim railroad crosses the motorway here.










18. 










19. End of the roadworks 










20. Last part before the border, still concrete.










20. 










21. The exit sign for the border station.










22. Approaching the border.










That's it, hope you liked it!


----------



## MAG

Timon91 said:


> Time for more pics
> 
> 
> 12. Roadworks for the next 5 km.


Good idea to have such heart-warming information boards telling you how far to the end of roadworks (nog 5 km = 5 km to go).
The smile on the icon gets progressively happier the nearer the end of the roadworks. 
By ~1 km you get a proper upturned smile similar to this: .

Stroke of genius, if you ask me!



.


----------



## Suburbanist

MAG said:


> Good idea to have such heart-warming information boards telling you how far to the end of roadworks (nog 5 km = 5 km to go).
> The smile on the icon gets progressively happier the nearer the end of the roadworks.
> By ~1 km you get a proper upturned smile similar to this: .
> 
> Stroke of genius, if you ask me!
> 
> 
> 
> .


I've seen it first time in Austria in 2008. I found it funny, though the first emoticon was a crying one, and the distance, 32 km :nuts:


----------



## Timon91

I've also seen them in Austria. Chris and I discussed about it and we thought that we stole the idea from the Austrians, but we weren't sure. I've seen them in the Netherlands as well though, about one year ago.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A37 Hoogeveen*

1.









2.









3. 25x zoom.









4. 









5.









6. Links de voormalige aansluiting Alteveer









7. 









8.


----------



## aswnl

Timon91 said:


> I've also seen them in Austria. Chris and I discussed about it and we thought that we stole the idea from the Austrians, but we weren't sure. I've seen them in the Netherlands as well though, about one year ago.


Yes, it was copied from Austria. So the credits are for the Austrians.


----------



## mgk920

aswnl said:


> Yes, it was copied from Austria. So the credits are for the Austrians.


I forget offhand exactly where I saw it, but I do recall seeing something like that during a roadtrip somewhere here in the USA during the late 1990s. It might have been somewhere in Ohio.

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

After decades, the design-record of decision of the A4 Delft - Schiedam has been signed by minster Eurlings. This new motorway will have 3 lanes northbound and 2 southbound due to tunnel regulations. The motorway will be 9 kilometers long and at a cost of € 880 million. The estimated AADT is 109,000.


----------



## Nikolaj

Amazing. How is ist possible to have a 2+3 motorway - running in what basically is open land - to cost 100 Mio. Euro/km??


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> After decades, the design-record of decision of the A4 Delft - Schiedam has been signed by minster Eurlings. This new motorway will have 3 lanes northbound and 2 southbound due to tunnel regulations. The motorway will be 9 kilometers long and at a cost of € 880 million. The estimated AADT is 109,000.


So the minister decided to extend his legacy before leaving politics? Anyway, Chris, in The Netherlands, what are the exact implications of a "record of decision". Is it a final, binding decision on building an infrastructure project, pending only on money provisions?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Yes. It is called a "tracébesluit" in Dutch. This was the design-tracébesluit though, next are the appeals, then the final tracébesluit (record of decision) and then the last round of appeals, then it's finalized without a possibility of appeal. Which means the construction should be able to start in 2011.


----------



## Coccodrillo

What are those "tunnel regulations"? Are they due only to the very short tunnel under the Nieuwe Maas?


----------



## Curz

ChrisZwolle said:


> Visualization of the future A1 aqueduct near Muiden. At 14 lanes, this will be the world's widest aqueduct. The estimated AADT for 2020 is 310,000 vehicles per day.


Gosh, this is even worse than in US hno:


----------



## Suburbanist

Curz said:


> Gosh, this is even worse than in US hno:


It's common for highways in The Netherlands to have very high traffic counts because they don't have nearly as many urban freeways and alternative connections like in US.


----------



## mlm

ChrisZwolle said:


> I made a map based on several EIS documents which give 2020 traffic volumes.


Thanks a lot. And also thanks for the link, although I didn't understand much of it. :lol:


----------



## Curz

Suburbanist said:


> It's common for highways in The Netherlands to have very high traffic counts because they don't have nearly as many urban freeways and alternative connections like in US.


OK, one would even say that this is not that bad for a semi-rural highway, but nevertheless, shouldn't Holland invest more in the railway than in individual commute?


----------



## Suburbanist

Curz said:


> OK, one would even say that this is not that bad for a semi-rural highway, but nevertheless, shouldn't Holland invest more in the railway than in individual commute?


Wow, I'm living here just for a year, but (AFAIK) there has been massive investments in rail transport too... The country has the densest rail network in Europe, almost every station has at least 2x hour service, a lot of intercity services, the HSL-Zuid...

So, no, in my opinion the Dutch case is the best representation about the limits of investment in railways in modern Western societies: there will be, still, a huge demand for car transportation, regardless of the thousands of bike paths (many of them segregated), discount cards for trains etc.

There are a lot of people who commute from city to city in The Netherlands, too, and if you account for the time it takes for one get to the train station from his house, travel by train, then get local transport for work again, even with congestion it is still faster to use the car in many cases.

Anyhow, I guess the locals and the guy who has the best collection of road threads can answer you better than me.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Curz said:


> OK, one would even say that this is not that bad for a semi-rural highway, but nevertheless, shouldn't Holland invest more in the railway than in individual commute?


Studies have shown traffic volumes would drop by 0 - 2% if significant investment in mass transit was an option. That means for example A1 wouldn't get 311,000 AADT, but 305,000 AADT. In other words; mass transit has no relevance in road traffic. Those who are able to use mass transit are already doing so. 

And, like Suburbanist already said, mass transit already offers high frequency and density. Where rural villages in other countries have like 4 - 5 buses per day, Dutch villages have 1 or 2 buses per hour. 

But, despite the large number of traffic jams, there is not as much competition between the two modes as is sometimes suggested.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ I got it from the "ontwerp-tracébesluit" of Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere (SAA). Similar figures are also mentioned in the A4 Delft - Schiedam and A13-A16 MER studies (EIS).


----------



## woutero

In this corridor, public transportation is already pretty good. 

For instance, there are currently 6 train connections per hour between Almere and Schiphol/Amsterdam South, and between Almere and Amsterdam Central. There are also buses, etc. But the capacity is still not enough.

So the national government has announced €1,35 billion worth of plans to improve public transportation in this corridor as well. An expected 80.000 people per day will make a trip between Almere and Amsterdam by public transport.

So the Dutch are investing heavily in public transportation as well.

More info in Dutch:
http://www.verkeerenwaterstaat.nl/o...heid/randstad_urgent/35projecten/ovsaal.aspx/


----------



## mappero

Let's say is a Dutch problem with traffic on these motorways/highways. Cause the worst idea is everyone in The Netherlands start work at 9:00 and end at 17:00-17:30. So the worst traffic are only twice a day (8:00-9:00) and (17:00-18:00). Before and after these peak hours you can easily travel without traffic. 
Second issue is Dutch people commute from one city to another city using only motorways but in fact this is only 30-40 km commuting so compare to other European countries means - they commute inside the city. Normally you have more possibility to choose different, parallel roads but in The Netherlands you have only motorways and not through local traffic roads...
Someone mentioned about InterCity connections 2-4 times per hour. They can provide such a number of trains but we should remember it is small country so distance between cities is small and the same train can operates many times per day. Dutch IC train standard is still below European Railway Standard. NS could called these trains SnelTrein instead.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> Let's say is a Dutch problem with traffic on these motorways/highways. Cause the worst idea is everyone in The Netherlands start work at 9:00 and end at 17:00-17:30. So the worst traffic are only twice a day (8:00-9:00) and (17:00-18:00). Before and after these peak hours you can easily travel without traffic.


Rush hours last much longer than that. The first traffic jams appear around 6 am, and the most are gone by 10 am. The main peak is between 7 am and 9 am. The rush home starts around 3 pm and lasts until 7 pm, with the worst between 4.30 pm and 6 pm. 

The off-peak traffic volumes are generally only 15 - 20% lower than the peak volumes. It doesn't take much to have a traffic jam last all day. The level of service is around C-D for most of the off-peak hours, which is a mediocre flow, but not congested. 

Or in other terms, the off-peak volumes have an intensity / capacity (I/C) ratio between 0.7 and 0.8 which means it is close to disruptions in flow. The Coen tunnel (A10) has an I/C ratio of 1.2 This means traffic volumse exceed the theoretical capacity by 20%! Talk about saturated roads...


----------



## woutero

ChrisZwolle said:


> Studies have shown traffic volumes would drop by 0 - 2% if significant investment in mass transit was an option.


Chris, do you have a source for this research? Is it a general study, or something specific for the Schiphol-Amsterdam-Almere corridor? 

I would guess that in a place like this corridor the % would be higher (due to concentration of employment around train stations and restrictive parking policies in many areas).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ I got it from the "ontwerp-tracébesluit" of Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere (SAA). Similar figures are also mentioned in the A4 Delft - Schiedam and A13-A16 MER studies (EIS).

(I'll add links later)

edit:
OTB Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere (p32)



> Investeringen in het openbaar vervoer, bijvoorbeeld via een IJmeerverbinding, leveren naar schatting een vermindering van het autoverkeer op van maximaal 2%.


translation:
"investments in mass transit, for example an IJmeer connection, reduce car traffic by a maximum of 2%".

Trajectnota A13-A16 Rotterdam (p42)



> Optimalisatie openbaar vervoer. Het openbaar vervoer in de regio wordt door de HSL, Randstadrail en Tramplus sterk verbeterd. Er zijn maar beperkte andere mogelijkheden voor verdere uitbreiding van het openbaar vervoer in de periode tot 2020. Op grond van aanvullend onderzoek is verder geconcludeerd, dat de effecten van een aanvullend openbaar vervoersscenario nauwelijks merkbaar zijn op de weg. Een sterke verbetering van het openbaar vervoer leidt tot een afname van het verkeer op de A13 en de A20 met 0 % tot 1 %.


translation:
"optimalization mass transit. Mass transit in the region is improved significantly by the construction of HSR, Randstadrail and Tramplus. There are few possibilities for further expansion of mass transit until 2020. Based on additional surveys, it became clear that effects of enhanced mass transit are barely visible on the roads. A strong investment in mass transit will reduce traffic on A13 and A20 by 0% to 1%".


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some pics I took today with a Panasonic Lumix of A28 just north of Zwolle.


----------



## Wuppeltje

24 hours timelapse at the ring road (A10) in Amsterdam:














Source: Het Parool (local newspaper)


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> I made a map based on several EIS documents which give 2020 traffic volumes.


Awewome map, but isn't it just missing the A5 extension in Amsterdam area?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, but the projected A5 traffic volumes are included (96,000 on 2x2).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Wuppeltje said:


> 24 hours timelapse at the ring road (A10) in Amsterdam:


Cool video. You can clearly see how the Coen Tunnel works as a funnel, congestion southbound isn't very bad because it mostly backs up north of the tunnel (A10/A8/A7), and congestion northbound is worse. 

This video seems to be taken last winter. I think it shows less congestion than usual because 1) traffic volumes are 10% lower in the first two months of the year), and 2) traffic is reduced by another 5 - 10% due to the recession. 

However, it looks like that fully stationary traffic on A10 is rare (apart from incidents). 

The Coen Tunnel is noted for having the highest traffic volume of any 2x2 road in the Netherlands at 120,000 AADT. This represents an I/C ratio of 1.2 - 1.3 which is 20 - 30% more traffic than is theoretically thought posssible. It also means there is no way people follow the 2 second rule.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some traffic jam pics I took this morning. I was on A28 towards Utrecht around 10.30 am, and of course traffic jammed at interchange Hoevelaken. The last 3 km took me an half an hour.




























A Finnish truck. You don't see too many of these.




































The A1 collector/distributor was jammed as well, because traffic from A1 cannot merge on A28. 









I think this cloverleaf is one of the busiest in Europe. 









De stroopwafels of koeken van Tjeerd zijn nooit verkeerd. 
"_The syrup waffles and cookies of Tjeerd are always good_" (it rhymes in Dutch)


----------



## Suburbanist

Are there any plans to build an at-least partial ring road in Leeuwarden? It would provide a faster route from the Afsluidijk to Groningen and beyond, though I'm not sure about the traffic up north there.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, actually procedures are pretty advanced on the N31 expressway around Leeuwarden, the record of decision has already been taken and works should start this year.


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> The local regulations usually ban truck parking within city limits (mostly only allowed on industrial areas). Also; where do you leave hundreds of trucks? First the rest areas, which are usually quickly overloaded. Then the only option is the shoulder.


Makes sense... Still, something doesn't add: these German regulations are quite well-known beforehand. Moreover, the Netherlands is a relatively small country. Then, why don't truck drivers and logistic operators plan their trips accordingly, so valuable time (money) is not spent with the truck with a driver inside stuck near the border? I mean, why doesn't a truck who's getting something from Rotterdam to Dusseldorf doesn't delay its departure until it will likely cross the border short before it reopens?


----------



## snowman159

Suburbanist said:


> why don't truck drivers and logistic operators plan their trips accordingly, ... [snip]


The photos were probably taken within an hour before the ban was lifted at 10pm.

And I don't think all the truck traffic originated in the NL and there were probably drivers who've been driving for quite some time before they got to the border. So they could plan to spend their rest period close to the border and get a head start.


----------



## koloite

Suburbanist said:


> Makes sense... Still, something doesn't add: these German regulations are quite well-known beforehand. Moreover, the Netherlands is a relatively small country. Then, why don't truck drivers and logistic operators plan their trips accordingly, so valuable time (money) is not spent with the truck with a driver inside stuck near the border? I mean, why don't a truck who's getting something from Rotterdam to Dusseldorf doesn't delay its departure until it will likely cross the border short before it reopens?


They are only allowed to drive some 9 hours a day, which means that they can just about cross Germany in one shift if they start at the border. On Good Friday (a working day in The Netherlands) many trucks get their load somewhere in The Netherlands, then go to the border to wait until 10 pm and then drive through Germany during Friday night and Saturday morning in order to get through before the next driving ban starts at Sunday.

Normally they can use the hard shoulder between Oldenzaal and De Lutte for parking, but this year this was somewhat more complicated because of the roadworks on the A1 on this section. The police therefore also directed a number of trucks to the ramp at De Lutte in the direction of Oldenzaal, effectively meaning that these trucks had to go back to Oldenzaal to turn around in order to get to Germany.

One of the things that has always surprised me is that they don't use the industrial area of Gildehaus on these days. There is a lot of space to park trucks, there is a restaurant, and the trucks would only have to drive about 1500 metres to get to the exit in Germany.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

koloite said:


> One of the things that has always surprised me is that they don't use the industrial area of Gildehaus on these days. There is a lot of space to park trucks, there is a restaurant, and the trucks would only have to drive about 1500 metres to get to the exit in Germany.


Unfortunately, the Germans seem to be very unwilling to help the Netherlands in this problem. They explained that if the Dutch police was to fine everybody on the shoulder and force them into Germany, the Germans simply close the border to all traffic. The state of Niedersachsen also is not willing to cooperate with constructing a large parking facility a few kilometers into Germany to allow trucks to stop there. 

What they have done so far is expanding the border parking facility, yet this one is still very small with a capacity of maybe 80 trucks. Somewhat further back in the Netherlands, between Hengelo and Oldenzaal is another, larger parking area (Lonnekermeer). They have expanded this one significantly, with parking capacity of about 250 trucks. This is enough to handle the Sunday truck bans, but not the truck bans which are during the workweek because there is much more truck traffic from Monday - Friday.


----------



## ABRob

Koesj said:


> There has been no release of documents concerning the N31 project near Leeuwarden so I guess we still have to wait a bit. Here are the project pages for the A4 Steenbergen, A15, A50 Ewijk-Valburg and, last but not least, Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere (under 'D. Tekeningen, deel 1 through 57').


Nice, thanks!
So, the aqueduct near Muiden will be a bottleneck - 5+2+5, but before and after the A1 will be 6+2+6...


----------



## da_scotty

Well considering 5+2+5 a bottleneck goes a bit far I suppose, those lane configuration will make most Dutch drivers feel like they are driving in a Walhalla!!

considdering that 2*2 with 100 000+ AADT is not rare, I think we can't really justify the name bottleneck here


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A37 motorway*

Between Hoogeveen and Emmen in Northeastern Netherlands.

1.


2. 









3.









4.









5.









6.









7









8.









9.









10.









11.









12.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A28 Nijkerk*

A few pics from A28 motorway near Nijkerk.










These residential towers are in reality about 3 km away


----------



## bijtkonijn

At the A2 west of Utrecht, I saw what seems to become some kind of tunnel above ground.
Can any highway-expert here tell me what the're building there?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A land tunnel so the new development of Leidsche Rijn won't be disconnected from the rest of the city. A2 will run underground there. It's more an above-grade cover than a real tunnel though.


----------



## Wover

snowman159 said:


> In Germany big rig trucks are banned on Sundays and holidays, including Good Friday.
> 
> (http://www.bgl-ev.de/web/fahrerinfos/fahrverbote.htm)


At least it's not as bad as trucks going to Russia .

Example from Estonia: Waiting time for trucks passing the border at the Narva border crossing: http://www.emta.ee/piir/?nolimit=1&lang=en&pp=narva

Yes, those times are in hours (current waiting time: 105 hours :nuts: )


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are currently three ecoducts under construction in the Amersfoort - Zwolle - Apeldoorn triangle, a natural area known as the "Veluwe". The A1, A28 and A50 motorways will each get one additional ecoduct. 

This is the A50 ecoduct U/C near the town of Heerde.


----------



## Substructure

>


How is it than in such a small and dense state as the Netherlands, some highways take up such an important amount of space ?
I would have suggested sparring up some space by making the lanes closer.


----------



## seem

^^

This ecoduct looks pretty narrow, this supposed to be wider. Doesn`t it? :dunno:

_btw, Slovak ecoducts are mainly 50-100 metres wide _


----------



## mappero

ChrisZwolle said:


> There are currently three ecoducts under construction in the Amersfoort - Zwolle - Apeldoorn triangle, a natural area known as the "Veluwe". The A1, A28 and A50 motorways will each get one additional ecoduct.
> 
> This is the A50 ecoduct U/C near the town of Heerde.


I was wondering what they building there when I was standing in file on Monday's morning. Now with more concrete construction I realized there will be ecoduct  But why they building now? Because this part of motorway was built before eco-terror period?


----------



## Coccodrillo

Substructure said:


> How is it than in such a small and dense state as the Netherlands, some highways take up such an important amount of space ?
> I would have suggested sparring up some space by making the lanes closer.


It is certainly to reserve space for additional lanes in the future. This has been done sometimes also in Italy, but not very often.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

mappero said:


> I was wondering what they building there when I was standing in file on Monday's morning. Now with more concrete construction I realized there will be ecoduct  But why they building now? Because this part of motorway was built before eco-terror period?


This section of A50 was opened in 1977. I do think adding some ecoducts is a good idea, the Veluwe is the largest forested area in the Netherlands (although mostly artificial).


----------



## Tramfreak

seem said:


> ^^
> 
> This ecoduct looks pretty narrow, this supposed to be wider. Doesn`t it? :dunno:
> 
> _btw, Slovak ecoducts are mainly 50-100 metres wide _


There is also an ecoduct near Eindhoven called 'Natuurbrug Het Groene Woud' and it's 50m wide. And another one, at Terlet, also measures 50m. So that should be the standard ecoduct width in the Netherlands.


----------



## Substructure

Wait, are we talking about the same kind of ecoducts ? Bridges for wild animals to cross a highway that disrupts their ecosystem ?









Because there is no way a deer is going to cross 10km or more in between two lanes to reach another place. Ever. He'd just be scared and never set a foot on the duct.
So apparently this rather looks like a waste of space, or a poor excuse for environmentalism.


----------



## Tramfreak

Substructure said:


> Wait, are we talking about the same kind of ecoducts ? Bridges for wild animals to cross a highway that disrupts their ecosystem ?
> 
> Because there is no way a deer is going to cross 10km or more in between two lanes to reach another place. Ever. He'd just be scared and never set a foot on the duct.
> So apparently this rather looks like a waste of space, or a poor excuse for environmentalism.


The ecoducts are not primarily made for large animals like deers, and there is evidence that smaller animals do use them. But whether it is really efficient to spend money on such structures is a different question. 

In some countries, such bridges can also be used by agricultural vehicles, but that is obviously not the case here.


----------



## peezet

the deer can't see the road because of a talud as you can see on this drawing:

http://www.inspraakpunt.nl/Images/KW Nieuw Ecoduct Mollebos_tcm306-262390.pdf

the 50m guess is almost right indeed


----------



## Substructure

These ecoducts do their jobs, I've seen some of them in Canada and they've been proven to work.
I was talking about these big gaps between two lanes, that Seem calls ecoducs :









My point was : do we really expect animals to use these gaps as ecoducts ?
If yes, it's total madness as no animal will ever follow this gap, but will run away in panic..
If not, it's a waste of space in a state like the Netherlands (to me at least).


----------



## peezet

No the median is so wide because of the landscaping 
or 
because of the saving of a crash barrier.

and I think the second reason is the real one


----------



## Tramfreak

Substructure said:


> These ecoducts do their jobs, I've seen some of them in Canada and they've been proven to work.
> I was talking about these big gaps between two lanes, that Seem calls ecoducs :


I'm sure that seem meant the ecoduct under construction in post #4034, so the bridge for animals. 

Another reason to leave a gap between lanes is easier widening of the highway (or making citizens believe that they live in a spacious country by building wide roads in the least populated regions)


----------



## Coccodrillo

It's certainly space reserved for some extra lanes...


----------



## peezet

Coccodrillo said:


> It's certainly space reserved for some extra lanes...


In 'Drente' :hilarious


----------



## Suburbanist

I guess you get confused about two different topics:

- eco "bridge" project
- wide median issue

I'd love to see that wide median eaten up by 2 additional lanes each direction. But I don't know about how busy is that sector. Anyone? Chris?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Coccodrillo said:


> It's certainly space reserved for some extra lanes...


No, this is the Drenthe province, which is, to Dutch standards, sparsely populated. The traffic volumes on this motorway are only around 25,000 AADT. It connects two regional cities (Hoogeveen and Emmen) and some international traffic, but not that much since a high-standard connection between Meppen and German A1 near Cloppenburg is still missing.


----------



## Substructure

Okay, thanks for your answers, everyone.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Tomorrow is Queen's Day, plus a 2-week vacation is about to start. This means "RUSH HOUR!".

1250 kilometers of queue.


----------



## seem

Tramfreak said:


> There is also an ecoduct near Eindhoven called 'Natuurbrug Het Groene Woud' and it's 50m wide. And another one, at Terlet, also measures 50m. So that should be the standard ecoduct width in the Netherlands.


Do you know how long will be this one?



> I'm sure that seem meant the ecoduct under construction in post #4034, so the bridge for animals.


:yes:


----------



## xlchris

I was taking my drivinglessons this afternoon but got stuck on the A10 (Amsterdam), normally I can drive like 120km/h but today only 20km/h...


----------



## da_scotty

You´re not the only one, I was lucky to make my Driving Exam in Den Bosch today, bad luck I failed though...Wasn´t fast enough with decisision making on crossroads...


----------



## Tramfreak

seem said:


> Do you know how long will be this one?


I haven't found the exact length, but it should be between 40m and 60m. 40m is the lower limit recommendation so that they can plant all the needed vegetation on the ecoduct.


----------



## Carldiff

da_scotty said:


> You´re not the only one, I was lucky to make my Driving Exam in Den Bosch today, bad luck I failed though...Wasn´t fast enough with decisision making on crossroads...


Is the dutch driving test difficult? Do you have a minimum tuition time like in France?


----------



## seem

Tramfreak said:


> I haven't found the exact length, but it should be between 40m and 60m. 40m is the lower limit recommendation so that they can plant all the needed vegetation on the ecoduct.


So, it isn`t so narrow. Do you know what kind of animals lives there?


----------



## Tramfreak

seem said:


> So, it isn`t so narrow. Do you know what kind of animals lives there?


It is expected that (not only) the following animals will use the overpass: red deer, roe deer, badger, pine marten, squirrel, bats, lizards, grass snake, butterflies, beetles and birds.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

An interesting situation has occurred between Belgium and the Netherlands. A traffic jam in Belgium, starting in Antwerpen, extends deep into the Netherlands. It begins already on the Dutch A27, approximately 15 kilometers into the Netherlands. The other end of the traffic jam is about 65 kilometers further south; at Antwerpen-Zuid.

According to the Dutch Traffic Information Center (VID) the waiting time for only the northern 10 km is already 45 minutes. The entire delay to Antwerpen could be well over 2 - 3 hours.


----------



## H123Laci

Palance said:


> Trucks leaving towards Germany at the Dutch-German-border last night.


Viva la free borders of Urope! :lol:


----------



## Glodenox

ChrisZwolle said:


> An interesting situation has occurred between Belgium and the Netherlands. A traffic jam in Belgium, starting in Antwerpen, extends deep into the Netherlands. It begins already on the Dutch A27, approximately 15 kilometers into the Netherlands. The other end of the traffic jam is about 65 kilometers further south; at Antwerpen-Zuid.
> 
> According to the Dutch Traffic Information Center (VID) the waiting time for only the northern 10 km is already 45 minutes. The entire delay to Antwerpen could be well over 2 - 3 hours.


From what I heard on the news, the Flanders Traffic Information Center (Verkeerscentrum Vlaanderen) asked the VID to divert as much traffic as possible to Bergen-op-Zoom very early on. That way the traffic could flow around the other side of Antwerp towards the A12, but the VID refused that to keep that area clear for the queen's convoy that was going in that direction...

I'm not saying that's a flawed decision, but it does mean that there's little that could be done about it in those conditions.

Greetings,
Glodenox


----------



## MAG

... plus Ajax has that fantastic Duivendrecht interchange right next to the stadium. 
This train station alone does wonders for crowd control and for dispersing boisterous football fans efficiently all over Amsterdam. 


.


----------



## Timon91

Is this the Polish-Belarussian border? No, it's the Dutch-German border! During national holidays trucks aren't allowed to drive in Germany. Today is Ascension, so all trucks had to wait on the shoulder and at parking areas just before the German border. At about 21:45 things started to get moving again, which was quite an impressive view. The A1 border is famous for the long lines during German national holidays. Today wasn't too bad actually, it can be much worse. All pics have been taken from this viaduct.

1. The line of trucks, direction NL.










2. The line of trucks, direction D.










3. 










4. Zoomed. Usually traffic volumes are low at this time of the day, which also turns out in the previous pics. 










5. Polish truck.










6. Looking towards the border station.










7. German police.










8. The first trucks started to move.










9. Empty motorway, full shoulder.










10. Motorway full of trucks.










11. Still many trucks waiting.










12. Zoomed.










13. The exit towards the border station. Many trucks have to leave the motorway here to pay the German toll.










14. Chaotic.










15. 










16. 










17. Hardly any other traffic.










18. Polish truck driver.










19. The truck on the 2nd lane was standing still, waiting to change to the first lane to exit the motorway. Unfortunately he was stopping all traffic :lol:










20. Zoomed.










21. Most of the trucks have passed now.










22. Though many are still waiting to exit the motorway.










That's it! I also made some videos, but they are quite disappointing. Chris has got some better videos, I'm sure that he'll post them here.


----------



## Timon91

I picked the best video I had to post here:


----------



## crimiboy

aswnl said:


> Yesterday AJAX won the national football title.
> No main road near Amsterdam was closed.
> Although the winning team was coming home by bus too... (from Rotterdam).
> 
> That puts the idiot FC Twente behaviour on the A1 in a somewhat different perspective.


Winning the League Championship is more important than winning a cup
Especially when its for the first time in the history.
So dont call Fc twente idiot for no reason


----------



## Pansori

That should be one hell of a sight! And sound. 
Has anyone ever tried to catch that on a camcorder with sound?


----------



## Suburbanist

I have a doubt: Italy has some holiday and weekend TIR traffic ban. So does Germany. Why don't they negotiate an European-wide scheme, instead of putting the problems to the other side of the border?

I ask the same about the increasing number of environmental stickers and certifications. They already have the Euro-5 standards and alike. They should develop an unified sticker/control for cars, whatever, and stop working chaotically as now.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, if Europe can cooperate on one topic, it should be truck bans, truck tolls and emission stickers. I've read somewhere all European Union member states should apply a truck toll by 2012.

Right now we have the following truck toll systems:

* regular distance-based tolls (Italy, France, Slovenia, Spain, Portugal, etc.)
* Eurovignette (Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Sweden, Denmark)
* LKW-Maut (Germany)
* GO-Box (Austria
* SVA (Switzerland)
* Emyto (Slovakia)
* toll card (Poland)
* Vignette (Lithuania)
* Premid (Czech Republic)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I had to relocate a bunch of traffic counters in Hoevelaken today, but earlier this morning a German truck collided with the central reservation, causing long queues in both directions. I had to go southbound, meaning there would be about 15 km of queue. According to TomTom, the delay was over 80 minutes. Low-ranking surface streets were also jammed, with one roundabout having a delay of no less than 26 minutes. 

So I decided to took A50-A1 towards my destination. A1 was jammed as well, but I knew a back route to my destination in Hoevelaken. Here are some pictures.

1. VMS indicating queue lengths on two routes to Utrecht City.


2. Traffic went from free flow to stationary in a matter of seconds. I was just lucky to be able to take the exit.


3. Queued traffic on A1 westbound to Amersfoort / Amsterdam.


4. Because traffic was completely jammed, some people took the liberty to do a little walk on the shoulder.


5. A1 at Terschuur, watching westbound.


6. 


7. A Ukrainian truck. Probably bought this trailer without taking the hassle to remove the advertising from the previous owner.


8. Shoulder running was even into operation in the eastbound direction.


9. 


10. Traffic camera intended to observe the shoulder running. All shoulder running locations in the Netherlands have such cameras as there are no continuous shoulders present.


11. Somewhat further west at Hoevelaken. Now it's mostly the right lane to be blocked, as the accident was on the intersecting freeway just ahead.


12. Signage for interchange Hoevelaken.


13. The left lane flow was considerably better than the right lane.


14. Shoulder running.


----------



## Ni3lS

Cool pics. Can't wait to go back. I'm going back to the Netherlands next week :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The A15 construction between IC Ressen and A12 (~ 15 km) is now budgeted at around € 1 billion. That's the bridge variant. The tunnel variant is another € 600 million more expensive.

This is the area:









In my opinion, € 65 million per kilometer in rural area is utterly ridiculous. Not to mention the tunnel variant is € 107 million per kilometer! Better shelve this motorway for now and redirect these funds to more useful projects like a widening of A12 or A15. Or extend A18 to Enschede.


----------



## Dr.Mabuse

ChrisZwolle said:


> 7. A Ukrainian truck. Probably bought this trailer without taking the hassle to remove the advertising from the previous owner.
> 
> 
> [/url]


or a german company which registerd their trucks in urkaine.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> 4. Because traffic was completely jammed, some people took the liberty to do a little walk on the shoulder.


Is that what you call bermtoerisme? ;-)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some pictures of the new A2 near Utrecht. It currently carries 180,000 vehicles per day and is being widened to 10 through lanes (14 lanes total at some spots). A local-express system is added here.

pics by SeatNL:














































You can see how wide the road will be here.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A VMS near Barneveld. This VMS shows traffic jam length on two routes to Utrecht, via A30-A12 (interchange up ahead) and the usual route via A1-A28. Not surprisingly, there was traffic congestion, even at noon.


Another VMS a few kilometers down the road shows driving times as opposed to traffic jam length. (I prefer the first).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Oh god, the A2 tunnel near Utrecht is possibly delayed by 2 years... It's gonna be a huge disaster if this section will not be opened on time, since this section is the busiest of A2 (180.000 vehicles per day on currently six lanes).


----------



## ElviS77

crimiboy said:


> Winning the League Championship is more important than winning a cup
> Especially when its for the first time in the history.
> So dont call Fc twente idiot for no reason


No doubt. I thought it was pretty cool that Twente won... even though they obviously caused a bit of a commotion AND that I like Go Ahead Eagles...


----------



## MAG

Need some advice, guys.
What's the best way of getting from Schiphol to Rotterdam by road? 

Would it be via the A4 and then A13, branching off at Delft-Noord?

I presume the A4 between Kerkpolder and Kethel does not exist yest? Am I right or is my map out of date?


.


----------



## Jeroen669

^^ You're totally right.  Don't know at what time you're going to drive there, but remember this route can be totally jammed during rush hours...


----------



## 909

ChrisZwolle said:


> The A15 construction between IC Ressen and A12 (~ 15 km) is now budgeted at around € 1 billion. That's the bridge variant. The tunnel variant is another € 600 million more expensive.
> 
> In my opinion, € 65 million per kilometer in rural area is utterly ridiculous. Not to mention the tunnel variant is € 107 million per kilometer!


Why so expensive?


----------



## MAG

Jeroen669 said:


> ^^ You're totally right.  Don't know at what time you're going to drive there, but remember this route can be totally jammed during rush hours...


I'll try to avoid peak hours. 
Hartelijk dank, Jeroen.


.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Tramfreak said:


> I think that the N337 west of Wijhe illustrates best what I mean. I found that it's the most direct road between Deventer and Zwolle. There is also a highway alternative for that route (A1+A50+A28) which is longer, but drivers could be motivated to use that route because the N337 has a low speed limit.


Much longer. Most of Zwolle is south of A28, and all of Deventer is north of A1. The route between both centers is 58 km via motorway and 33 km via N337. Not a reasonable alternate route, especially considering N337 does only go briefly through two of the three towns en-route. You can drive from Zwolle to Deventer via N337 in 20 minutes from city limit to city limit, while the route via motorway takes at least 35 - 40 minutes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A2 or A12 near Utrecht in 1963.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Public consultation for the improvement of A1 through " 't Gooi" (near Hilversum) started today.

You can find all documents here @ centrumpp.nl Click on "plantekeningen" to find drawings in the ZIP file. 

Shoulder running will be added between exit Bussum and interchange Eemnes. This 4-lane motorway currently carries 105,000 vehicles per day and is severely congested, but there is few space for a real widening (2x4 would be best), so they opted for shoulder running as a short-term solution.


----------



## H123Laci

^^ I thought that your motorways are the most seriously congested in europe, but in a road-diary a hungarian truck driver (who drives in west-europe) always complains about the traffic jams on german motorways (and calls germany "stauland")... 

whats the truth?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Relative to population, the Netherlands has far more congestion than Germany. Regular rush hours usually accumulate between 250 and 350 km of "file" at any given time. Germany usually has between 150 and 200 km of "stau", but one has to keep in mind those "baustellen" generate a lot of traffic jams that last long and have a very low flow. 

Dutch traffic jams are more saturation-based, while German traffic jams are more roadwork-based. Delays are often worse in the latter. 

Another issue in Germany seems to be the significant delays for truck traffic in a traffic jam, the so-called "LKW-stau". It often looks like the right lane is fully occupied by trucks and not moving at all, while there is some movement in the left lane with cars.

I think especially truckers are much worse off in Germany. The Netherlands has much stricter rules about the accepted level of congestion during roadworks, during bids, contestants are specified to keep their roadwork-related traffic congestion below a certain threshold. No more than 5% of the Dutch congestion is allowed to have the cause in road works, while this is 30% in Germany.


----------



## Suburbanist

Chris,

Has any highway project been cancelled/delayed in The Netherlands due to current economic crisis?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Not that I know of, but highway construction is a tiny portion of the Gross Domestic Product (only 0.25%*). Other countries like Spain and Portugal were closer to 2 - 2.5% (10 times more) of GDP.

* Highway construction: $ 2 billion annually, GDP close to $ 800 billion annually


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A picture of the widened A2 near Abcoude. It has 10 lanes, and left and right shoulders. It has been a couple of years since we've seen continuous left shoulders on a Dutch motorway. Most of them (actually, only A4 had them if I am correct) were converted to driving lanes.

All 10 lanes will be opened during summer, however, the grand opening of the Utrecht land tunnel is still in doubt. Some sources say there has been a delay of 2 years, though national media hasn't picked it up yet. Maybe it's nothing more than a rumor.


----------



## Wuppeltje

^^ Isn't the left shoulder also there as reserve as a possible future lane?


----------



## Timon91

AFAIK there should officially be a shoulder on a continuous 2×5 motorway in the Netherlands, but I'm not sure about that.


----------



## da_scotty

It's busy down here, lot's of Germans coming around because of the good weather.

All the major Cross border Highways are jammed, especially around Arnhem.. Aperently Holiday-stau is'nt unknown here...


----------



## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


> A picture of the widened A2 near Abcoude. It has 10 lanes...


wow, this is the same with as the north korean highway...

capitalism caught up with kommunism... :lol:


----------



## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


> dutch vs. german jams...


wow, thats quite a complex issue.

thx for explanation.


----------



## aswnl

H123Laci said:


> wow, this is the same with as the north korean highway...
> 
> capitalism caught up with kommunism... :lol:


The carriageway shown is not open to traffic yet. The other carriageway still has 2x3, you can see it on the left of the picture.

BTW: Those lightpoles are really HUGE.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

ChrisZwolle said:


> A2 or A12 near Utrecht in 1963.


Woops... Someone wasnt paying attention in that pic. (Car towing the caravan) Like here in BC, rather than pull off to a safe place, they just gotta create a tailback...hno: AFAIK if the damage is really minor, you're allowed to pull off to a safe place, before swapping insurance info. At least that's how it works here in BC.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

An aerial video of the new 2x2 N302 near the city of Harderwijk.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another pic of the kick-ass A2


----------



## Pansori

^^
How long is such a 5+5 lane stretch? And why does it have a hard shoulder on the left?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ The 2x5 section is 21 kilometers long. An additional local-express setup that has between 10 and 14 lanes will continue another 10 km south to interchange Oudenrijn (A12). 

Left shoulders are strongly suggested at roads that have over 4 lanes per direction in case of breakdowns or accidents on the left lanes.


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## ChrisZwolle

The same A2 in 1982!


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## Мартин

This is the first time I see a railroad crossing on a motorway.


----------



## bogdymol

ChrisZwolle said:


> The same A2 in 1982!


WOW! Is that railroad still there ? 

I passed over a railroad on a motorway near Miami, FL, but I think that one was not in use anymore.


----------



## Tramfreak

^^ That's very interesting Chris, certainly in a country which has few same level road x railway crossings. Was that a passenger line, or just a local freight connection?

How many bridges are there on the Dutch highway network that can be opened to let a ship go through? I know about Ketelbrug near Lelystad, are there more of those?


----------



## Timon91

^^It seems to be a small freight connection, no passenger trains.

@bogdymol: No, it was dismantled shortly after this picture was taken. Nowadays it would be unthinkable to have an railroad crossing a motorway at level in the Netherlands :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Tramfreak said:


> How many bridges are there on the Dutch highway network that can be opened to let a ship go through? I know about Ketelbrug near Lelystad, are there more of those?


Hmmm interesting.. there are a boatload of them.

A1 Vecht Bridge
A4 Kromme Rijn Bridge
A6 Ketel Bridge, Scharsterrijn Bridge
A7 Lorenz sluice, Winschoterdiep Bridge, Hoornse Diep Bridge, Nieuweschans Bridge
A8 Coen Bridge
A9 Bridge Zijkanaal C
A10 Schinkel Bridge
A16 Brienenoord Bridge (busiest motorway in Netherlands)
A20 Giessen Bridge
A27 Merwede Bridge
A44 Oude Rijn Bridge, Kaag Bridge

I have to add some of these almost never open.


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## Carldiff

These were taken last July between Amsterdam and Venlo (can't remember the road name). I was very surprised to see a rising bridge on the motorway, but it's novel, and there were kilometres of clear motorway once the bridge went down.

1.









2.









3.


----------



## mgk920

Мартин;58180247 said:


> This is the first time I see a railroad crossing on a motorway.


There were once a BUNCH here in Wisconsin (USA), now there are two left. Both of the ones that are still active are on US 151, one at Beaver Dam:
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=43.468338,-88.815837&spn=0.016227,0.027595&t=k&z=15
and the other near Waupun:
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=43.595715,-88.734598&spn=0.016193,0.027595&t=k&z=15
Check their 'streetview' links for close-up images of them. Also, buses and trucks carrying hazardous materials are *required* to stop at both of them and safe pull-off lanes are provided.
At one time, there were five at-grade railroad crossings within about 150 km on US 41 between Appleton and Milwaukee, including one on a six-lane freeway section of it in metro Milwaukee, two others on the six-lane Madison Beltline, plus a few more.

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

@ Carldiff: that's the A1 Vecht Bridge near Muiden (just east of Amsterdam). This road carries 200,000 vehicles per day. It will be replaced by a 14-lane aquaduct in the coming years as traffic is projected to grow to 300,000 vehicles per day.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Transport minister Eurlings signed a design-record of decision for the widening of 11 kilometers A12 Ede - interchange Grijsoord to six lanes. This is one of many projects to widen A12 from Den Haag to the German border to six lanes or more. 

This project will consist of a robust widening to six lanes, no crap with shoulder running or plus lanes like the Veenendaal - Ede section. The speed limit will remain at 120 km/h. The project will cost € 126 million and is slated to start in 2012, with a completion in 2014.


----------



## Palance

ChrisZwolle said:


> Hmmm interesting.. there are a boatload of them.


A29, Volkerakbrug:









There is also the Haringvlietbrug in that same higway, only some kilometers further away. They open a few times in a day.


----------



## ArthurK

ChrisZwolle said:


> A7 Lorenz sluice, Winschoterdiep Bridge, Hoornse Diep Bridge, Nieuweschans Bridge


Don't forget the swing bridges at Den Oever near the Stevin Lock. They open very often, just like the swing bridges near the other end of the Afsluitdijk near Kornwerderzand. Especially in the summer time when many small yachts are sailing from the IJsselmeer to the Wadden Sea. 

There are dozens of bridges if you include the secondary highways (_autowegen_); just too many to count.

A number of moveable bidges in highways have been replaced by aquaducts in the province of Fryslân over the past few years. Some examples:

Highway A32 near Grou, _Akwadukt Mid-Fryslân_: (Click to enlarge)
 
There was bascule highwaybridge next to an swing railwaybridge. The highwaybridge was replaced by the aquaduct, while a new railwaybridge was constructed which is higher than the old bridge.

Highway N7 near Sneek, _Geauakwadukt_:
 
The Geauakwadukt replaces a bascule highwaybridge in the A7/N7 highway.

Ringroad-east in Sneek, _Houkesloot aquaduct_:

The missing link in the ringroad of the city of Sneek was solved with the Houkesloot aquaduct. Not truly a highway, but still a nice aquaduct.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Transport minister Eurlings officially opened the "Randweg Eindhoven" today. The new bypass features 8 to 10 lanes, as opposed to the old 6 lane motorway. Virtually all traffic congestion has disappeared. Minister Eurlings also said he is interested in completing the Eindhoven Ring road, with an eastern bypass as well. But first: elections! (tomorrow).


----------



## pilspaus

To bad Eurlings stops working as minister, he did allot of good things, dont think he will make plans for the eastern bypass at Eindhoven


----------



## cees

yeah to bad....however,..Eurlings couldn't have done it without the help of the impopular balkenende with his crisis law...
at least the first biggest obstacles are taken..hope they will go along this way..no bullshit but just make it...instead of spending the money on report after report....just build something and compensate nature afterwards...thats so much cheaper and more efficient


----------



## ArthurK

cees said:


> yeah to bad....however,..Eurlings couldn't have done it without the help of the impopular balkenende with his crisis law...


The Crisis and Recovery Act (_Crisis- en herstelwet_) is just recently adapted and became active in april 2010, so we can't see any results yet. Time will tell how useful this act will be.

The Crisis and Recovery Act is designed to shorten the time needed for conducting the required research and procedures. But actually it's something many political parties already wanted for a long time. It's more or less the successor of the Priority Act Widening of Highways (_Spoedwet Wegverbreding_) made by former minister Roelf de Boer of the infamous Fortuyn Party. I think the measures in the new act will be permanent, although they say it is just a temporary act. Much will depend on today's general elections. It's well known some parties are more in favour of road construction than others.

Speaking about that... I'm going to the voting station right now!


----------



## Suburbanist

Crisis always present an opportunity. I wish my home country (Italy) used the financial crisis as a way to dramatically cut red tape and "environmental assessment" and ridiculous "mitigating" exigences in road and rail projects.

So I'm glad the country I'm living in for a while took such measures.


----------



## pilspaus

Well, day of the elections is done, results are staggering, will take a long time i guess to form a new government, so i guess not much will happen in the near future, unless these desisions can be made with demissionair government.

Appart from that, does anyone have some info or updates about the widening projects of the A4 between exit Nieuw Vennep and Interchange Ypenburg? i know they are building a new aquaduct under the Ringvaart, but thats it, no other reports about that or whatsoever, think the new layout will be 2x3 instead of the mere 2x2 at the moment, personally i think 2x4 would be better, the amount of traffic will increase there, so better to build for the future i guess.


----------



## aswnl

Tramfreak said:


> Was that a passenger line, or just a local freight connection?


The line started as part of the "Haarlemmermeer"-railroad-network. It was opened in 1915, and was everything but profitable. Passenger services had stopped already in 1950, and it was expected that a handful trains/week of freight service to some local sidings in Uithoorn and Aalsmeer wouldn't be a reason to construct a viaduct for the motorway A2, which was opened here in 1953. In 1976 the A2 was widened to 2x3 lanes, but the RR-crossing still existed because the company that shredded most abducted, amortized Dutch trains was in Mijdrecht - with a demolition transport every few weeks.
Above that regular exchange-transport for the isolated new part of the Schiphollijn meant some extra trains in 1978/1979. Because shredder Hollandia moved from Mijdrecht to the Amsterdam harbour, the line could be closed in 1986. The rails and the RR-crossing was removed in 1987.

More information (in Dutch) on the Haarlemmermeer-railtracks:
http://www.haarlemmermeerspoor.nl


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another example of how narrow Dutch main roads are.

This is provincial highway N301 in Nijkerk. It carries over 20,000 vehicles per day. The truck has about 10 cm left between the road markings, and the "shoulders" aren't exactly generous either.


----------



## Palance

Time for some Dutch pictures, taken last Tuesday on the A7, the Afsluitdijk. This **** is 32 km long and connects the provinces of Friesland with Noord-Holland and seperates the IJsselmeer from the Waddenzee
Location on Google Maps

Pictures:


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^

Cool!


----------



## Qaabus

Preparations for the widening of the A50 to 2x4 lanes between Arnhem and Nijmegen have been underway for a couple of months. Yesterday the first pictures of the second bridge over the Waal near Ewijk were published. It will carry southbound traffic in a 1x4 configuration, while the current bridge will carry northbound traffic on 2x2 lanes. The architect seems to have been surprisingly successful in matching the new bridge to the old, even though it will have 4 pylons on the sides instead of 2 in the middle, and be constructed with concrete instead of steel. 

Work is expected to be finished by 2013.


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## ChrisZwolle

The Arnhem-Nijmegen region will improve significantly;

* A12 widening to 2x3 between Utrecht and Zevenaar
* A50 widening to 2x3 between interchange Grijsoord and interchange Valburg
* A50 widening to 2x4 between interchange Valburg and interchange Ewijk

And they're still talking about extending A15 to A12, although the discussion has become somewhat ridiculous because of the excessive cost of a proposed tunnel. 

The shoulder running on A50 between Apeldoorn and Arnhem has solved virtually all congestion. 

I still hope they will make N325 a grade-separated expressway. It carries 70,000 vehicles per day with traffic lights.


----------



## da_scotty

Are there any plans for widening the A50 further South?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, that's not a priority right now. Although I wonder how long this section will remain free-flowing, since Oss - Ewijk tops out at 78,000 vehicles per day. That's already fairly high for 2x2 lanes.


----------



## Tom 958

I really like this bridge. I'm a big fan of cable stayed bridges and I like the radical-looking ones like the Erasmus, but this one has a dignified look that contrasts well with its more-adventurous cousins.


----------



## pilspaus

can some1 tell me how to upload some images? been fooling around for a bit but cant figure it out 

got some pics of the A44 merging with the A4, A10 and A1, pls tell me ^^


----------



## Fargo Wolf

pilspaus said:


> can some1 tell me how to upload some images? been fooling around for a bit but cant figure it out
> 
> got some pics of the A44 merging with the A4, A10 and A1, pls tell me ^^


You can't upload them straight from your compy. You need to upload them to a photo hosting site like Photobucket. (What I use.) Then all you have to do is get the image code, click on it to highlight it and right click to copy the code. Then just stick it into the message box here, just as if you were replying to someone's post.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The biggest variable sign (Dutch: kantelwalsbord) in the Netherlands has been installed near Utrecht. It measures 15.60 x 3.90 meters and weighs 3.5 tonnes.


----------



## H123Laci

^^ and whats the point of making this kind of sign variable?


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## ChrisZwolle

So they can chance destinations if necessary. In a dense motorway network like in the Netherlands, it can be useful to reroute traffic if an incident occurred.


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## pilspaus

guess thats a sign for the paralel and main lanes at Utrechts new road setup?


----------



## Carldiff

woo I think we'll go under this next time we go to Amsterdam


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## pilspaus

nah, then u go from amsterdam to the south ^^


----------



## JuanPaulo

The new sign is neat! thank you for sharing chris kay:


----------



## Carldiff

pilspaus said:


> nah, then u go from amsterdam to the south ^^


it's going here isn't it? I pass through here going from Calais to Amsterdam ( well on the way back) . I like the motorway around Utrecht, it's wide, fast, and it has that cool tunnel thing with shops and cars dealers on the left side.


----------



## pilspaus

its indeed over there yes, but its 1 big construction site now, its now 2x3 and will go to 2+3+3+2 at utrecht, and from Uthecht north to Amsterdam 2x5 till the intersection with the A9, and the shops and car dealers was all designed to be a part as 1 huge multifunctional sounds wall ,looks great indead


----------



## Escher

I miss the old sign style!!


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## pilspaus

i agree on that 1, but i like the new ones to, but the old ones are a little bit more nostalgic


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Escher said:


> I miss the old sign style!!


The old sign style could not show that there are eventually two lanes to the right.

That is vital information, since it increases capacity of that exit.


----------



## pilspaus

but on that sign its 4 lanes trough traffic and 2 for local traffic, or am i seeing it wrong now


----------



## Planen B

The second exit lane tapers off the rightmost through lane just before the actual exit. In the old signage they did not show this situation, which meant that unless you were already familiar there, everyone was gonna push on to a single exit lane, only discovering at the last moment that they didn't have to merge into that one lane per se.


----------



## Des

pilspaus said:


> but on that sign its 4 lanes trough traffic and 2 for local traffic, or am i seeing it wrong now


Yeah I think it will go like this:

|||| ||
/||| ||/
|||| ||
|||| //
||||||
||||||
|||||/
|||||

Otherwise trucks on the right lane have to cross two lanes to pass Utrecht as transit traffic which could create dangerous situations, so this is a common solution where you let through traffic merge to the left by moving up only one lane. Later the outer left lane is closed so there's only 3 lanes fpr transit traffic.


----------



## pilspaus

well Dess it makes sence what u suggest i could be but then am thinking they are making a new bottleneck again, think best in my oponion is:

||| ||/
||| ||
||| ||
||| ||
||| //
|||||
|||||

But seems they wont do that, cus the new sign gives a other situation, witch is to bad i guess


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The sign shows a taper. 

Like this:


----------



## Des

pilspaus said:


> well Dess it makes sence what u suggest i could be but then am thinking they are making a new bottleneck again, think best in my oponion is:
> 
> ||| ||/
> ||| ||
> ||| ||
> ||| ||
> ||| //
> |||||
> |||||
> 
> But seems they wont do that, cus the new sign gives a other situation, witch is to bad i guess


Scroll down to the video on this page:

http://www.rijkswaterstaat.nl/wegen...recht_aansluiting_maarssen/doelen_resultaten/

And fast forward the video to 4:55 there you will see the situation as it's going to be, luckily the 'taper' 2nd exit lane will be quite long so I think it will be fine and not a new bottleneck.

The same solution will be used on the other side at knooppunt Holendrecht. The only difference is that there is no taper, as the right lane of the A9 exit at Knooppunt Holendrecht is vormed by the onramp lane from exit Abcoude. So it looks like this:

|||| ||
/||| ||
|||| //
||||||
||||||
||||||
||||||
||||| \


----------



## julesstoop

Tom 958 said:


> I really like this bridge. I'm a big fan of cable stayed bridges and I like the radical-looking ones like the Erasmus, but this one has a dignified look that contrasts well with its more-adventurous cousins.
> http://www.architectenweb.nl/bin/news/172809.jpg


Look carefully, there are two bridges. An older one in the back, with two central pylons and a new bridge with four pylons placed at the outside of the road deck.


----------



## Tom 958

julesstoop said:


> Look carefully, there are two bridges. An older one in the back, with two central pylons and a new bridge with four pylons placed at the outside of the road deck.


Indeed. My compliments apply to both bridges. 

An informative sign. Now... if you Europeans would just get away from putting (in this case) the A2 E35 legend _three times on the same freaking sign!!_ I'd be impressed. :nuts:


----------



## Carldiff

Question for the Dutch. Why is 's-Hertogenbosch called 's-Hertogenbosch? What does the 's mean and why isn't it capitalised?


----------



## aswnl

_'s_ is an abbreviation of the old Dutch word _Des_ which means "of the" or "in the"

's-Gravenhage = Den Haag = The Hague
's-Hertogenbosch = Den Bosch

However the The Hague municipality wants to be called Den Haag on road signs, while Den Bosch keeps to it longer name.

_Des Graven Hage_ means something like "the hedged gardens of the count" (graaf=count)
_Des Hertogen Bosch_ means something like "the wood of the duke" (hertog=duke)

's is also used in:
's ochtends - in the morning
's middags - in the afternoon
's avonds - in the evening
's nachts - at night
's anderendaags (Flemish) - the next day


----------



## mappero

^^
I knew it about an abbreviations now I know meaning also. Bedankt


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Tom 958 said:


> An informative sign. Now... if you Europeans would just get away from putting (in this case) the A2 E35 legend _three times on the same freaking sign!!_ I'd be impressed. :nuts:
> http://www.verkeerinbeeld.nl/images/stories/kantelwalsbord-foto.jpg


This is not America, Major Tom, where you just have to guess which lane leads to which road number 

I agree on the E-numbers though, the signs would be much better off without 'em.


----------



## mappero

hno: No, please don't remove E-numbers from signs! hno:
This is the worst mistakes in country like Belgium. If you travel domestic you don't need them (but you already know net of motorway in your country) but if you travel international through many small countries like NL, B, L, CH, CZ, SK, etc. is definitely more handy and useful to use E-numbers though!


----------



## JuanPaulo

ChrisZwolle said:


> This is not America, Major Tom, where you just have to guess which lane leads to which road number
> 
> I agree on the E-numbers though, the signs would be much better off without 'em.


so funny, to me that CA sign is crystal clear while the dutch sign appears somewhat convoluted! :nuts:


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ You get used to it over time.


----------



## Slagathor

JuanPaulo said:


> so funny, to me that CA sign is crystal clear while the dutch sign appears somewhat convoluted! :nuts:


It's what you're used to (grow up with), I guess. To me it's the other way around.


----------



## Koesj

aswnl said:


> 's is also used in:
> 's ochtends - in the morning etc.


Which of course used to be 'in den ochtend' using traditional Dutch written-language, which makes the argument go full-circle


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> This is not America, Major Tom, where you just have to guess which lane leads to which road number
> 
> I agree on the E-numbers though, the signs would be much better off without 'em.


Actually, there was a point on I-95 in Philadelphia, years ago, where there were little signs reading "South I-95" (really, "South" over a shield) over each of the non-exiting lanes at an important exit. It's no longer there. Once I passed that point with an aunt in the car and she remarked that those signs were helpful. So (1) it's not only in Europe and (2) some people find it useful....


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> This is not America, Major Tom, where you just have to guess which lane leads to which road number
> 
> I agree on the E-numbers though, the signs would be much better off without 'em.


I find that California sign perfectly comprehensible. 

[Edited because I was embarrassed that I'd begun two consecutive posts with "actually."]


----------



## Planen B

California sign looked perfectly clear to me even though I'm used to the Dutch ones  Only thing that "bothers" me about them is the different font sizes, and possibly that it's not that clear to me what the "only" on the sign indicates, I have this feeling it's redudant information but maybe I'm wrong.

Then again on the new Dutch signs what bothers me is that a lone diagonal arrow looks so much different from the other arrows.

No sign style is perfect


----------



## Penn's Woods

What's with that "A10 noord"? Never seen a direction attached to a route number in Europe....


----------



## mappero

Dutch folklore  
IMO, they should put [A10n] and [A10s]. More accurate and logic


----------



## Slagathor

That would be [A10z] cause we wouldn't be using English, would we?

Too confusing anyway. We'll have a sign that reads [A10o]. You just know there's people who will mistake that for A100. Then there's the French who don't know if it means occidental or oriental. No good.


----------



## Planen B

Penn's Woods said:


> What's with that "A10 noord"? Never seen a direction attached to a route number in Europe....


It's not really a direction, it indicates the northern part of the A10 (ring road). Can't say I'm a fan of it but ah well


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ In Italy they use a lot of this notation on ring roads and bypasses, but they make it clear that stretch of freeway is part of a ring road.


----------



## Palance

Penn's Woods said:


> What's with that "A10 noord"? Never seen a direction attached to a route number in Europe....


They are used for regional roads in Almelo as well (a town in the east of the Netherlands).


----------



## Planen B

^^ Sorry for being blunt, but those are some seriously messed up signs :x


----------



## JuanPaulo

how come they don't use the cardinal direction together with the route identification in Europe? Is it used for secondary and tertiary roads only? Seems odd that they don't use it for all roads including the primary ones.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Planen B said:


> ^^ Sorry for being blunt, but those are some seriously messed up signs :x


I kind of like those indirect road numbers for important roads. In France or Germany, motorways are signed sometimes over 30 km in advance, but in the Netherlands you usually don't see signage referring to a motorway until the last kilometer.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

JuanPaulo said:


> how come they don't use the cardinal direction together with the route identification in Europe? Is it used for secondary and tertiary roads only? Seems odd that they don't use it for all roads including the primary ones.


I'm not in favor of using cardinal directions in Europe. There are too many languages, would you know what Jug or Północ means?


----------



## Slagathor

Pardon my ignorance, but might one assume cardinal directions = signing names of cities in their native language?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_direction


----------



## JuanPaulo

Not to get off-topic but as a road and map navigator I am lost without cardinal directions. Cardinal directions makes travel easier for one might not know or remember all the names of cities and towns but for sure one knows you are traveling "south" if you are going, say, from Milan to Rome. 

In my humble opinion, it would be terrific if Europe implemented cardinal directions on primary roads. Because of the different languages, I think the directions should be in the official language of each country plus English. Simple like that. Just like signs in countries where the official language does not use roman alphabet (i.e. UAE, Israel, Korea, China, etc.).

Another solution would be to use a symbol since Europe signage is mostly based on symbols. It could be a cardinal rose or north arrow or some other type of icon where the direction is accentuated or highlighted. Just my opinion though.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You forget cardinal directions only work with true grid systems. Germany and Poland have such systems, but France and Spain do not, for example. They've tried it in the United Kingdom, but had to use directions like "northwest".


----------



## Slagathor

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_direction


Thanks!



ChrisZwolle said:


> You forget cardinal directions only work with true grid systems. Germany and Poland have such systems, but France and Spain do not, for example. They've tried it in the United Kingdom, but had to use directions like "northwest".


Those subtle varieties wouldn't help, I concur. Nobody wants to know if they're heading "South-Southwest".


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> You forget cardinal directions only work with true grid systems. Germany and Poland have such systems, but France and Spain do not, for example. They've tried it in the United Kingdom, but had to use directions like "northwest".


I don't know about that. It's not as if everything in the U.S. is at right angles. Any road in France I can think of (well, at least at the level of autoroutes) can be classified as _at least approximately_ east-west or north-south. Even on a beltway, you can just change directions periodically. The Washington and Baltimore beltways are marked as north/south on the "vertical" stretches and east/west on the "horizontal" stretches. And it's reinforced by "inner loop" and "outer loop" (like the Périphérique intérieur, and don't they have a way of distinguishing the two directions on the Antwerp Ring?)


----------



## Palance

Penn's Woods said:


> and don't they have a way of distinguishing the two directions on the Antwerp Ring?)


Yes: 1 is clockwise, 2 is anti-clockwise


----------



## Carldiff

ChrisZwolle said:


> You forget cardinal directions only work with true grid systems. Germany and Poland have such systems, but France and Spain do not, for example. They've tried it in the United Kingdom, but had to use directions like "northwest".


That's not quite right. In the UK it's The North/The South/The South West etc, it's not a cardinal direction but an indication of the region you are heading for. If you're heading to Plymouth you'll know to follow signs for The South West (M5), if you're going to Birmingham from Cardiff you'll follow signs for The Midlands (A449), if you're going to Manchester from London you'll follow signs for The North West (M6). I find that much more intuitive and then once you enter the region you tend to get the city signposted. For instance you won't see any actual signs for Manchester until well past Birmingham.


----------



## Slagathor

Palance said:


>


Awful.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^
Mmm. We should let the Dutch take over Belgium so they can fix the signs.


----------



## snowman159

da_scotty said:


> It means that a 100km/h speed limit is in force


I didn't know that the first time I drove in the NL. (but I tend to go with the flow anyway) 

Are there also conventional speed limit signs or just the green markings? I can't imagine all foreigners know that rule.


----------



## CNGL

Incredible... all the "low countries" are an autosnelweg!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Gotta love the "Afsluitdijk" (Closure Dike). A7 runs across it.


----------



## hofburg

what's the diference between water level?


----------



## Des

hofburg said:


> what's the diference between water level?


Waddenzee (open sea connected to the Atlantic Ocean) on the left side and the IJsselmeer (now inland lake, former Zuiderzee) on the right.


----------



## ArthurK

ChrisZwolle said:


> Gotta love the "Afsluitdijk" (Closure Dike). A7 runs across it.


Yes, that's my favorite highway of The Netherlands. It's actually an old picture; they have increased the number of parking lots in front of the monument. Another picture, with the monument designed by the well-known Dutch architect Dudok. It's the wallpaper picture on my desktop... 


The Afsluitdijk was build in 1932 and has a length of 30 kilometers. The construction opened the door for the reclaiming of large parts of the Zuiderzee (Southern Sea), which has been one of the most important milestones in the Dutch history. Needles to say you have a tremendous view of the Wadden Sea and IJsselmeer when standing on top of the tower of the monument...


----------



## Suburbanist

Des said:


> Waddenzee (open sea connected to the Atlantic Ocean) on the left side and the IJsselmeer (now inland lake, former Zuiderzee) on the right.


They are usually at the same level, but the dike (levee) protects the Ijsselmeer from flooding and high tides. I hope they reclaim some land there in the future to build new cities.

As for the road, I've driven there once, loved it. However, I liked the N302 over the Markewaarddijk (Enkhuizen-Lelystaad) more: it is shorter, but runs closer to water and, being a 2-lane road only, gives a more "I'm in the middle of a giant lake" feeling. Maybe I think this, also, because I like both cities, Lelystaad is a quite modern place with new developments going on and a nice road/street pattern, and Enkhuizen has as nice waterfront/park/musem/leisure boats port.


----------



## 88keys

I have great admiration for the remarkable design and construction of that road! Holland is amazing.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A truck destroyed an MTM matrix gantry on A12 west of Utrecht.


----------



## kosimodo

ChrisZwolle said:


> A truck destroyed an MTM matrix gantry on A12 west of Utrecht.


No wonder!!!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another pic. From the looks of it, it was a truck who was on-site working for the A12 widening. (Now you can really see how big those matrix signs are)


----------



## Surel

I got a question about traffic rules in NL. It happened to me several times that I was puzzled with the question of right hand priority or the main/side rode distinction.

There are not many roads marked with the main road sign (yellow diamond) in NL, in their case everything is clear.

All other crossings (without light) should then be ruled by the right hand priority rule. However, there are many times small entrances to the road from supermarkets, parking places, etc. Many times it happens that I wonder, is it a road, or is it just entrance from a parkinplace (e.g. the road seems to go through the parking place)?

The problem is sometimes solved with the white horizontal triangles on the road surface, however, they are not to be seen until you get to the cross.

I was told that the difference in surface of the entering road and the entered road may play a role in distinguishing whether it is just a "not road" entrance or whether it is a road. Also the color and height of the surface might be involved. Is it really so? Does it matter if one road is from bricks and higher and the other one from asfalt? Does red color on the cross imply something?


I would like to ask someone to make it clear for me. What are the exact rules and markings for distinguishing the priority on the small roads in NL. How can I distinguish just an entrance to the road (without priority of right hand) with a normal road (that has priority of right hand).

So far my confusion makes me only drive rather slowly whenever I see some crossing and guess car from right could try to enforce its priority. On the other side, I dont try to enforce my right hand priority everywhere so bluntly. Perhaps that is the reason for this confusing situation, it makes people drive safer. However I would guess there are some rules for these situation as well, even if I dont see the red triangle.

Thanks


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Beyond the yellow-white priority road sign, there are basically three or four options;

1) Priority sign. Usually accompanied by the shark's teeth on the side road.









2) The so-called "inrit" or "uitrit". No shark teeth's, but a speed bump from the side road. Main road has priority.









3) The plateau. Traffic from the right has priority.









4) Non-plateau, non-priority road. Traffic from the right has priority


----------



## Surel

Thanks, for quick reply.

In the first case I am already on a main road, thats not a problem as the sign itself in fact substitutes for the yellow triangle.

In the case two and three, are we talking about main road? Or is it just a road without any sign prior to the crossing thus considered side road? (thus the horizontal markings makes it main road for the crossing only...)


----------



## Surel

e.g. this 









It is not a main road. However the citroen doesnt yield for the while car. Is it due to the fact that the other road is from bricks and higher set? (but it is either not inrit or uitrit)... I am confused .


----------



## -Pino-

bozata90 said:


> That is why in most cases the "control" (i.e. displayed) city will be the biggest. So if you are heading from Milan to, say, Reggio nell'Emiglia, you will follow the signs for Bologna. If you are heading to Rome, than you will follow "Firenze" after Bologna. It requires some basic geographical knowledge, or a decent map. So everyone gets used to it quickly...


Sorry for the offtopic response, but how would you explain the use of Gravellona Toce against that background of signposting the largest cities en route rather than a cardinal direction?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It is constructed like an "inrit" or "uitrit", so it doesn't have priority.

However, I have to agree this approach is rather different from the rest of Europe, and therefor not very clear, I think many Dutchmen aren't completely sure about this as well.


----------



## Surel

Well I am sure about that some dont know, as they could not answer me. They say, slow down a bit . Therefore thank you.

Just to make it crystal clear, on the picture number 3) with plateau. Does the plaetau make main road from the road above? Thus when approaching from the photo side I have to yield to both sides? Thus like the red triangle? Or doesnt it make in fact difference and the roads are both side roads, thus only the right hand rule prevails?

It would be pretty strange to make there a bumb in one direction then.
I did not understand your comment on that one....


----------



## Surel

And the last question. The bump may take different forms, or is it just one prescribed version? I guess I have seen many bumps on crossings of different colours, different materials, different shapes... Thus do they all count as inrits of uitrits?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Most speed bumps (and plateaus) are build like this:









They are even present on some bicycle lanes.


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> Most speed bumps (and plateaus) are build like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are even present on some bicycle lanes.


So who has the priority? The bike on plateu? Or the vehiecle coming from right (let it be bike or car, irrespective).


----------



## Penn's Woods

On the topic of the Afsluitdijk: Did I read somewhere (years ago) that the Zuiderzee was salt water but the IJsselmeer is now fresh, or am I imagining it?

And I hate speed bumps. Spent way too much money a few months ago fixing my suspension, and since then every time I go over certain speed bumps I visualize another big bill....


----------



## Timon91

Penn's Woods said:


> On the topic of the Afsluitdijk: Did I read somewhere (years ago) that the Zuiderzee was salt water but the IJsselmeer is now fresh, or am I imagining it?


That's right


----------



## LMB

ChrisZwolle said:


> Gotta love the "Afsluitdijk" (Closure Dike)


A bit OT: dike -> levee, **** -> rooster, etc. 

Also applies to beaver, which is now called Canada's History :lol:


----------



## Planen B

Surel said:


> So who has the priority? The bike on plateu? Or the vehiecle coming from right (let it be bike or car, irrespective).


There is no specific "priority" (or main road) on a speed bump unless indicated, normal priority rules apply, yield to traffic coming from the right, shorter turn first, etc.

The only thing that can sometimes be confusing is inrit/uitrit, it's usually a bump and looks like the pavement next to the road, people coming from or going into it must yield to anything and everything.


----------



## Tramfreak

Penn's Woods said:


> And I hate speed bumps. Spent way too much money a few months ago fixing my suspension, and since then every time I go over certain speed bumps I visualize another big bill....


Fortunately, the Dutch speed bumps seem to be more car-friendly than in other countries. The older ones are being replaced with bumps, which are really OK when you drive over them at low speed (the problem in some countries is that you can damage your car even at 20-30 kph). Some speed bumps are completely flat (the pattern of the tiles suggests that there is a bump, but there is none).

Apart from speed bumps, also special high bumps are used to avoid cars from driving in bus lanes. Of course the bus lane is separated from the rest of the road in that case.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The A2 widening near Den Bosch has now officially been completed (all new capacity was already in operation since 31 december 2009). 

Timeline;

1968: opening 2x2 Hintham - Vught
1970: opening 2x2 Empel - Hintham
2002: widening Empel - Vught to 2x3
2010: widening Empel - Vught to 4x2


----------



## Palance

Did someone mention the Afsluitdijk?


----------



## JuanPaulo

:applause: beautiful pictures! Makes me wanna do a BMW European Delivery and drive it across this road! :applause:


----------



## Penn's Woods

Palance said:


> Did someone mention the Afsluitdijk?


People keep mentioning the Afsluitdijk! But that's cool, because it looks great.
Also, leve de viertalige informatieboorden! (Long live quadrilingual information signs.)
(Or is it "-borden"?)


----------



## 88keys

My admiration for Holland is continuously sustained when I visit this section. Keep up the good work. How do you do it we all ask


----------



## Palance

Penn's Woods said:


> People keep mentioning the Afsluitdijk! But that's cool, because it looks great.
> Also, leve de viertalige informatieboorden! (Long live quadrilingual information signs.)
> (Or is it "-borden"?)


It is 'borden'


----------



## aswnl

In fact, the Afsluitdijk is a _dam_, not a dike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, it's basically not different from the many dams in Zeeland province. However, I wonder why we call it a dike in Dutch. We don't say "Brouwersdijk" for example.


----------



## Slagathor

^^ As I recall, it was the first actual dam that we built in the entire country. Everything we'd built before was a dike. That, combined with the vast _inpoldering_ plans for the Zuiderzee, they felt it was a dike. It wasn't a conscious decision, they just didn't think to call it a dam.


----------



## aswnl

^^
Where do you think all placenames ending with _-dam_ come from ??


----------



## Slagathor

Good point


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A wildfire closed A67 near Eindhoven this weekend:


----------



## Rebasepoiss

It's somewhat difficult for me to associate the Netherlands with forest fires . No offence!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Actually major wildfires are quite common. Every year produces a few large enough to warrant evacuations.


----------



## x-type

at the other national threads we often can read about some poor or bad done things on motorways which should be fixed or replaced. are there any of thes at NL motorways?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Not really, motorways are generally good, although there are still some sections with bad pavement after the winter. With the Dutch traffic volumes and the use of vulnerable asphalt, these need to be addressed sooner. 

There are negative comments on the current new signage that is being implemented. It's criticized for the lack of consistency and the waste of capital. Many good signs are being replaced with new ones. It's actually the same thing that happened in the late 90's, early 2000's when nearly all perfectly fine non-motorway signs were replaced with ANWB redesign, which was seen as a mere advertisement for ANWB to press their stamp on the signs. Rationally, there was no need to replace the perfectly fine highway gothic font with the less legible Uu redesign font. 

It's also annoying to have so many low speed limits of 80 km/h on urban motorways an 100 km/h on rural motorways, enforced by section control. 

However, the motorways are still the best roads around, the continuous downgrading of well-designed non-motorways is much worse. All in the sake of "traffic calming" (I call it road raping) and estúpidos whose narrow-minded environmental and traffic safety policy doesn't extend beyond the downgrading of speed limits. Do we really need roundabouts for minor side roads? Do we need mini-roundabouts on roads with more than 15,000 vehicles per day? Do we need 60 km/h limits on roads that are designed for 80 or 100 km/h? Do we need speed bumps at traffic lights, hello South Holland?


----------



## ArthurK

ChrisZwolle said:


> Actually major wildfires are quite common. Every year produces a few large enough to warrant evacuations.


"Major" wildfires on a Dutch scale.  The A67 was closed due to a fire in the "Strabrechtse Heide" forest, which destroyed 200 hectares. In other words: just two square kilometers, in a remote area. So they are actually small fires and no real threat to any city. Such forest fires always gain a lot of media attention because The Netherlands is such a small country where a forest fire is something "exotic" and "sensational". Definitely uncomparable to big wildfires elsewhere in the world.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

^^ 200 hectares is considered a major fire even by Estonian standards.


----------



## Palance

Some pictures of the A12 between Den Haag and Gouda.


----------



## Palance

And some pix of the (non-highway) N11 between the A12 (Bodegraven) and A4 (Leiden).


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^
If there were a best-signage-in-Europe contest, I might vote for you guys. My favorite feature being the distances incorporated in the directional signs, yet without making them messy.


----------



## Surel

A7 near Groningen and entering the city.


----------



## x-type

Surel said:


>


why is left lane closed while there is not traffic from opposite direction?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's left shoulder running.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A truck lost it's brakes on the A2 off-ramp in Bunde (near Maastricht), which is a downhill off-ramp, just after the major 5% downhill grade on A2. It crashed into a couple of buildings.


----------



## Slagathor

Wow the guy in the small car got very lucky if he made it out of that one.


----------



## Coccodrillo

ChrisZwolle said:


> A truck lost it's brakes on the A2 off-ramp in Bunde (near Maastricht), which is a downhill off-ramp, just after the major 5% downhill grade on A2. It crashed into a couple of buildings.


Have you ever made a film in this _mountainous_ area of The Netherlands?

And another question: why did they choose a tunnel in Maastricht instead of a bypass out of the city?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Coccodrillo said:


> why did they choose a tunnel in Maastricht instead of a bypass out of the city?


Well, there are basically two reasons. First, it was thought environmentally unacceptable to build a motorway through this area, as it contains hills, and there aren't many of them in the Netherlands. That is probably also the reason why A78 wasn't build along the current N278 alignment.

Second, a bypass wouldn't serve Maastricht traffic very much, and through traffic to Belgium is rather limited (approximately 18,000 vehicles per day). The tunnel can also be used for local traffic that wants to go from the south to the north of the city. From the 80,000 or so vehicles per day before the traffic lights, maybe 15,000 -20,000 is through traffic, thus it wouldn't really solve Maastricht's N2 problems

The N2 is considered a social problem as well. The area around the N2 consist of outdated social housing (which will all be demolished) and the N2 otherwise remains a physical barrier in the city.


----------



## LMB

What are these G, Z, D letters on yellow background?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Those are detour routes. They are temporary, for example when a road closure has to be done for repaving works. If you enter a road which is closed or where a detour is in effect, signs say which abbreviation you have to follow to get to your destination. The letters are often the first letter of a destination (this could be Gouda, Zoetermeer and Den Haag).


----------



## Slagathor

^^ Temporarily arranged detours, usually related to road works elsewhere. The first sign you'll see will be a yellow one telling you "Road works ahead. Amsterdam, follow A." and then onwards you'll follow all the A-signs (like the G, Z & D ones above) until finally you pass a sign that says "End of detour."

EDIT: Chris beat me to it by a minute, he's too efficient


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A truck got a blowout on A2 near exit Breukelen, causing a small wildfire.

A larger wildfire in the wooded median closed A28 in both directions south of Zwolle


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Until 2010, this was the only carriageway in the Netherlands with 6 undivided lanes.

Location: A12 just before interchange Oudenrijn near Utrecht City.


----------



## Catmalojin

Hi, just reading through the highway forum here. You guys are doing a great job, keep the pictures coming! :cheers:

I have one minor question regarding Dutch roads, or rather, Dutch (and Belgian, from those pictures on page 214) road signs:

What do the numbers on some signs mean after the destination? 

I don't mean the distance (like "Utrecht 42") but rather something like "*Rotterdam 1000-1999*" (only an example!)?

Are they postcodes, or something do to with freight or industry?

(Sorry if this has been answered before!)


----------



## Eric Offereins

^^ Most of the time, mobile cameras are used by police. Fixed cameras are too recognizable.


----------



## 909

koloite said:


> I guess it's related to the zoo in Emmen. In my opinion, the best zoo in The Netherlands.


Correct, it's has been built so people on the A37 can notice they are in Emmen, which is known for the zoo. There were also plans to construct two butterflies, one at the Dutch/German border and one near the intersection at Holsloot but because of lack of funds, these butterflies won't appear near the A37. There are also a mammuth and a dinosaur made by the same artist next to roads in Emmen.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

kanterberg said:


> When I drove in NL this summer I noticed the signs picturing a camera and the word control. I imagine this is a warning sign for speed cameras along the motorway? But how does it work, I couldn't actually see a single camera, just the warning signs.


They indicate there can be controls. They're more like motto signs than that they actually warn of speed controls ahead. 

However, if you see such a sign, combined with "trajectcontrole", make sure to stick within 5% of the speed limit, as they will measure your average speed over a longer distance (usually 3 - 7 km). You cannot see these cameras as they are fixed to the back of an overhead gantry.


----------



## Palance

Dit someone mention Ridderkerk interchange?  I have visited the interchange and surreoudings by bike last Tuesday. Hereby some pictures.

First some pictures of the A16 north of Ridderkerk.

















































































































































And then some pictures from Ridderkerk interchange (there is a good cyclepath 'through' the interchange).


----------



## Penn's Woods

Off-topic question, and reeeally off-topic observation:

Question (and I apologize that it's off-topic, but I have a Dutch-language question, and how often do I find so many Nederlanders in one place?) -

On Chris' last map, there's a town called Wijk bij Duurstede. I'm often unsure of where to stress Dutch place names, and when there are a series of E's it's even less clear to me. Have I read that Enschede is pronounced "en-sch'-DEE"? (If ' means a schwa sound, "ee" the long E of "zee," and capitalization means that's the stressed syllable) I'm guessing the "-beke" in Aalbeke and Merelbeke is pronounced "BEE-k' " But is Wijk bij Duurstede "DUUR-st'-dee," "duur-STEE-d'," or "duur-st'-DEE"?

Is there a good source for pronunciation of this sort of thing? When I have doubts in French, I look at the "Robert encyclopédique des noms propres."

(I taught myself Dutch, more or less, from books, after finding myself unexpectedly spending an evening and night in Ostend and discovering that an English-speaker who'd studied German could understand a lot).

Bedankt.

The really off-topic remark: While I was on the previous page, I picked up the phone and ordered a pizza. When I went to the next page, a minute later, I got a banner ad for Dominos. First thought - what, Google can tell what we're doing off line now?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's pronounced Wijk bij Duuur-sté-duh


----------



## Planen B

Of your examples I pronounce it "duur-STEE-d'. That's not to say that it's certaintly correct though 

As for a definite source on correct pronunciation, I do not know of one myself  Let me know if you find one!


----------



## DarkLoki

Wikipedia can help you in this case: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/286_Wijk_bij_Duurstede.ogg


----------



## Palance

Penn's Woods said:


> Wijk bij Duurstede.


FYI: "Stede" is an old Dutch word for stad (city). Wijk bij Duurstede is named after an ancient city called Dorestad which was destroyed by the Vikings. Therefore a new settlement has been set up, called "District near Dorestad", or "Wijk bij Duurstede". But "Wijk" could also be an ancient Dutch word for "Wik" which should be inham of inlet in English. So, Inlet near Dorestad.

When are you coming to the Netherlands for some addtional lessons?  (like: Scheveningen, Hendrik-Ido-Ambacht, Tytsjerksteradiel, but also Ede and Epe  etc.)


----------



## aswnl

Penn's Woods said:


> On Chris' last map, there's a town called Wijk bij Duurstede. I'm often unsure of where to stress Dutch place names, and when there are a series of E's it's even less clear to me. Have I read that Enschede is pronounced "en-sch'-DEE"? (If ' means a schwa sound, "ee" the long E of "zee," and capitalization means that's the stressed syllable) I'm guessing the "-beke" in Aalbeke and Merelbeke is pronounced "BEE-k' " But is Wijk bij Duurstede "DUUR-st'-dee," "duur-STEE-d'," or "duur-st'-DEE"?


I hope the following will be understandable for English speaking persons:

Wijk bij Duurstede: Wike--buy--Dure-stay-dùh (wike like bike; ending with schwa)
Enschede: An--sjùh-day
Aalbeke: Awl--bay-kùh (ending with schwa)
Merelbeke: Mih-rull--bay-kùh (u in rull=schwa; ending with schwa)


----------



## Suburbanist

*A9 X A22 X A308*

I have a question: is there any particular reason for the "bump" in the network represented by the A22 near Beverwijk and Velsen?

I mean: more freeways are almost always better then less freeways, and I love the idea of having two parallel ones.

Still, the strange A22/A9 configuration appears to me like a redundant-of-sorts, as there are two very close tunnel crossing under the Nordzeekaneel (I see their names as Wikertunnel and Velsertunnel). Between the enclosed "lace" formed by them, there is not a big area and looking on Google Maps I've found just an industrial park between both (and a low density residential development).

As the Dutch appear not to love spending extra money on roads, then why have they constructed two parallel roads under the channel, building the (expensive, I assume) shortcut the A9 represents? Was there because maybe the approaches are wider than 2X2 but the tunnels aren't, so when they expended the carriageways they decided to built a second 9-km stretch instead of just widening the tunnel?


----------



## woutero

The current A22 used to be the A9. The Velsertunnel (current A22) has been in use since 1957, the Wijkertunnel (current A9) since 1996.

The Velsertunnel is a tunnel with 3 tubes (2 for road traffic, 1 for rail traffic). I believe that the choice not to widen the road in the existing spot has several reasons:

1. Technicly complex because of the railway tunnel on the west side, and a lack of space to expand on the east side. But it would have probably been possible.

2. A way to seperate local traffic using the Beverwijk and IJmuiden exits (busy, with lots of traffic related to the Corus steel mills), and the A208 interchange from through traffic.

3. The Wijkertunnel was built by a private consortium. The Dutch government pays this consortium toll for every car that passes through the tunnel for the first 30 jears. This would have been more complex if the tunnel were combined with the Velsertunnel.

By the way: The A9 used to have a slightly different course near Beverwijk. Between exits Heemskerk and Beverwijk it ran directly next to the railway tracks, where there is now a VINEX neighborhood.


----------



## aswnl

The Velsertunnel also serves a lot of local traffic, and it meant that until 1996 the Velsertunnel was high in the charts of traffic jams. For the rest woutero has already given the answer.


----------



## mappero

I really enjoyed reading about past problems with motorways and traffic jams across countries  Comparing and finding resolutions, managing the best option is part of my fascinating so if you have more stories like this with The Velsertunnel please post here also  Let others know more about your country 
Moving motorway A9 was because of terrain needed for real estate issue or for more comfortable driving on A9?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Good news, the record of decision for the A50 widening west of Arnhem has become irrevocable. No further appeals can be made, and the widening has got it's final go-ahead. The A50 will be widened to six lanes between interchanges Valburg and Grijsoord. 

The repaving of A1 in eastern Netherlands (interchange Buren to German border ~22 kilometers) will be finished on July 30th, several months ahead of schedule. The old concrete pavement has been replaced with porous asphalt. 

The concrete on that section wasn't particularly old, 20 - 22 years at most, but most slabs were cracked because of an improper foundation. Back in the late 1980's when this part of A1 was completed, significant truck traffic was not calculated, because the DDR still existed, not to mention there wasn't any truck traffic to Poland like there is today.


----------



## mappero

ChrisZwolle said:


> Good news, the record of decision for the A50 widening west of Arnhem has become irrevocable. No further appeals can be made, and the widening has got it's final go-ahead. The A50 will be widened to six lanes between interchanges Valburg and Grijsoord.


Great!! less time spend in a car commute to work 




ChrisZwolle said:


> The repaving of A1 in eastern Netherlands (interchange Buren to German border ~22 kilometers) will be finished on July 30th, several months ahead of schedule. The old concrete pavement has been replaced with porous asphalt.
> 
> The concrete on that section wasn't particularly old, 20 - 22 years at most, but most slabs were cracked because of an improper foundation. Back in the late 1980's when this part of A1 was completed, significant truck traffic was not calculated, because the DDR still existed, not to mention there wasn't any truck traffic to Poland like there is today.


Yes, that time Europe was divided and this situation was sick for everyone...But why this temporary situation lasted so long...?


----------



## Suburbanist

1. Are there any estimated date for the same "irrevocable record of decision" in regard of the A4 gap between Delft and Scheidam?

2. What about the A2 tunnel in Maastricht?

3. Is there any chance we are going to see, again, new concrete motorways built in Netherlands, or has enhanced asphalt (that one with absorbs water and makes less noise) has become the norm?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> 1. Are there any estimated date for the same "irrevocable record of decision" in regard of the A4 gap between Delft and Scheidam?
> 
> 2. What about the A2 tunnel in Maastricht?
> 
> 3. Is there any chance we are going to see, again, new concrete motorways built in Netherlands, or has enhanced asphalt (that one with absorbs water and makes less noise) has become the norm?


1) I think things have been delayed with the collapse of the last cabinet. Originally, the design-ROD was to be published in the first half of 2010, but I haven't seen any. Original plans called for a ROD in late 2010, with a start of construction in 2011 and completion in 2015.

2) the design-ROD has been published on July 2nd. 

3) Not on motorways. Concrete is now exclusively used for traffic lights to prevent rutting and bumps. You can sometimes find concrete back-roads.


----------



## aswnl

mappero said:


> Moving motorway A9 was because of terrain needed for real estate issue or for more comfortable driving on A9?


For relieving traffic and for creating a new housing project, directly situated to a railway station. There hasn't been a real estate component in the project itself.

Perhaps important to tell that the original plans did forsee a Superhighway from Rotterdam to Alkmaar, only having interchanges with other motorways and not with normal roads. This should have been the A16 north of Rotterdam. In 1974 a decesion had been taken to build the Wijkertunnel as part of "rijksweg" 16. However, this superhighway didn't survive the new roadpolicies of the SVV in 1981. The northern part of rw16 had been cancelled between Rotterdam and Leiden, and between Heemskerk and Alkmaar. The part inbetween, from the Haarlemmermeer to Heemskerk, got the number 22, which had become obsolete earlier.

In the 80's a further decision had been taken for another alignment of rw22 east of Heemskerk, and circa 1990 a solution had been found for financing the tunnel. The new road was build as A22, but during construction the idea popped up to make the new tunnel part of the existing A9, leaving the old A9 the number A22 which had been reserved for the Wijkertunnel-motorway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Good news for drivers on A4 motorway between Den Haag and Amsterdam.

Last night, the new aquaduct under the "ringvaart" canal opened to traffic. Compared to the old 4-lane-no-shoulder-accident-hotspot-aquaduct, this one is a badass 27 meter wide aquaduct. It will host 3 lanes, but it has space to accomodate at least 6 lanes with full shoulders (in one direction). Until late 2010, the old existing aquaduct will be renovated, with temporary two-way traffic in the new aquaduct.

In late 2010, this bottleneck will be opened with 2x3 lanes to accomodate already 100,000 vehicles per day. It is interesting to note that the old aquaduct will be used in one direction, and will feature a roadway split because of the center pillars.

If necessary, they could replace the old aquaduct with a similar new aquaduct, generating enough space to widen A4 to 2x5 or 2x6 lanes if necessary. But that would be a long-term project, although I'm afraid the 2x3 lanes will soon be filled with traffic from A44 and N207.

New aquaduct:









Old aquaduct (to be used in one direction after renovation)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A few klicks south of this aquaduct is the high speed rail overpass. When they constructed this new tunnel in 2006, they immediately took advantage of the roadworks and prepared the tunnel for 2x5 lanes with shoulders.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

And as if that is not enough, a few kilometers further south, near the city of Leiden, and old obsolete 4-lane motorway bridge (drawbridge!) is replaced with a 2x3 lane aquaduct. It will be opened in 2014.

The new aquaduct will feature two roadways with 2x3 lanes, but space for 2x5 lanes + shoulders.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Nice, but I wouldn't call that an aqueduct. An aqueduct carries water. What I think you've got is an underpass under an aqueduct.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Here's a cross section for the widening of A1 east of Amsterdam (Diemen - Muiderberg).

It will feature from left to right:

* 2 local lanes + right shoulder
* 6 through lanes + left/right shoulders
* 2 reversible lanes + left/right shoulders
* 6 through lanes + left/right shoulders
* 3 local lanes + right shoulder
* 2 bus lanes

So that is a grand total of 21 lanes plus 8 shoulders. How about that :cheers:










The 14-lane aquaduct:









projected traffic volumes in 2020 by alternative.


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> Here's a cross section for the widening of A1 east of Amsterdam (Diemen - Muiderberg).
> 
> It will feature from left to right:
> 
> * 2 local lanes + right shoulder
> * 6 through lanes + left/right shoulders
> * 2 reversible lanes + left/right shoulders
> * 6 through lanes + left/right shoulders
> * 3 local lanes + right shoulder
> * 2 bus lanes
> 
> So that is a grand total of 21 lanes plus 8 shoulders. How about that :cheers:



:bow:

Amazing! This construction mood could spread all over the country. For instance, here in Tilburg 


===============

I have another question:

In Heerlen, I notice they've built a quite nice local/through freeway setup. The A76 acts like a "through" freeway, without any exit to Heerlen, save for the bifurcations with N281 (Antwerpseweg) that function as a local expressway with grade separation and junctions with local roads. Now, the actual questions rs:

- what is the speed limit on N281?

- which was built first? My guess would be that N281 was the original alignment of A76, but substandard and narrow (too many exits), so they later built the "new" A76 with only one exit as a bypass.

- do they have any active planes to build new bypasses relocating old (current) alignment as local expressways? The A28 in Amersfoort looks like a good candidate.


----------



## Koesj

> - which was built first? My guess would be that N281 was the original alignment of A76, but substandard and narrow (too many exits), so they later built the "new" A76 with only one exit as a bypass.


I guess so, if you look at the topographical maps on watwaswaar.nl you can see the N281 being (at least partially) built first. According to the two dossiers on autosnelwegen.nl they were completed one shortly after the other though. I guess this local/express setup was in the initial plans all along. Never been to Heerlen myself by the way, howzit down there?



> - do they have any active planes to build new bypasses relocating old (current) alignment as local expressways? The A28 in Amersfoort looks like a good candidate.


Not really. Bypasses were indeed considered for the A28 (and A1) near Amersfoort in the initial stages of the still ongoing Hoevelaken interchange plan, but, adding new roads which 'cut through' the landscape is a big no-no in Holland. 

Spatial considerations (and the implicit assumption of huge backlash) lead to most regional or corridor initiatives accepting the status quo of the existing freeway network. There's pretty much only capacity-adding going on, and/or the completion of missing links which have been on the drawing board for decades.


----------



## mexico15

IS IT EASY TO LIVE IN A PERFECT COUNTRY LIKE THIS :S?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> :bow:
> 
> Amazing! This construction mood could spread all over the country.


Actually, it is already happening;

Current widening projects in progress;

* A1 IC Watergraafsmeer - IC Muiderberg => widening reversible lane to 2 lanes + shoulder running
* A2 IC Holendrecht - Maarssen => widening to 2x5 lanes
* A2 Maarssen - IC Oudenrijn => widening to 2+3+3+2 lanes
* A2 IC Everdingen - IC Deil => widening to 2x4 lanes
* A2 IC Leenderheide - Valkenswaard = > widening to 3+2 lanes
* A2 Maasbracht - Geleen => widening with shoulder running
* A4 IC Badhoevedorp - IC De Nieuwe Meer => widening with shoulder running
* A4 Ringvaart Aquaduct = > widening to 2x3 lanes
* A4 Leiden => Widening to 2x3 lanes
* A5 construction Amsterdam west bypass (2x2 lanes)
* A7 upgrading N7 Sneek to 2x2 grade separated
* A9 IC Holendrecht - IC Diemen => widening with shoulder running
* A9 IC Velsen - IC Badhoevedorp => widening with shoulder running
* A10 construction 2nd Coen Tunnel (from 2x2 to 4x2 lanes)
* A10 IC De Nieuwe Meer - IC Amstel => widening with shoulder running
* A12 Woerden - Gouda => widening with shoulder running
* A15 widening A15 Maasvlakte - IC Vaanplein from 2x3 to 2+3+3+2 lanes
* A27 IC Everdingen - IC Lunetten => Widening with shoulder running
* A28 IC Hattemerbroek - IC Lankhorst => Widening to 2x3 lanes
* A50 IC Ewijk - IC Valburg => widening to 2x4 lanes
* A50 IC Valburg - IC Grijsoord => widening to 2x3 lanes

So that's a long list. However, there are many more projects slated to begin in the next few years. The projects listed below are currently within procedures, most projects will begin within 2 years from now.

* A1 IC Watergraafsmeer - IC Diemen => widening to 2x4 lanes
* A1 IC Diemen - IC Muiderberg => widening to 2x5+2 lanes
* A1 Bussum - IC Eemnes => widening with shoulder running
* A2 IC Oudenrijn - IC Everdingen => widening to 2x4 lanes
* A2 IC Vught - IC Ekkersweijer => widening to 2x3 lanes
* A2 construction new 4x2 tunnel in Maastricht
* A4 construction Delft-Zuid - IC Kethelplein
* A6 IC Muiderberg - Almere => widening to 4x2 lanes
* A9 IC Raasdorp - IC Badhoevedorp => widening to 2x3 lanes on new alignment
* A9 IC Badhoevedorp - IC Holendrecht => widening to 2x4 lanes
* A9 IC Holendrecht - IC Diemen => widening to 2x5 lanes
* A10 IC Watergraafsmeer - IC Amstel => widening to 2x4 lanes
* A12 IC Lunetten - Veenendaal => widening to 2x3 lanes using various styles
* A12 Ede - IC Grijsoord => widening to 2x3 lanes
* A12 IC Waterberg - IC Velperbroek => widening to 2x3 lanes
* A13-A16 construction new Rotterdam bypass (2x2 lanes)
* A27 IC Lunetten - IC Hooipolder => Widening to 2x3/2x4 lanes
* A28 IC Rijnsweerd - Amersfoort-Zuid => Widening to 2x3 lanes
* A28 Amersfoort-Zuid - IC Hoevelaken => widening to 4x2 lanes
* A29 IC Vaanplein - Oud Beijerland => widening to 2x4 lanes
* N31 construction Leeuwarden bypass (2x2 lanes)
* N50 construction new Ramspol Bridge (2x2 lanes)

:cheers::banana:


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> Actually, it is already happening;
> 
> 
> So that's a long list. However, there are many more projects slated to begin in the next few years. The projects listed below are currently within procedures, most projects will begin within 2 years from now.


Cool... I think Netherlands will have the highest share of freeways with more than 2X2 lanes of whole Europe.

Still, let's hope the new coalition don't aim at road projects. I friend of mine here in Tilburg told me that in the early 1980's a coalition killed almost every road project in Netherlands, and even planned to demolish some stretches of freeways like the A10 in Amsterdam and transform them into ground level boulevards.

Can you confirm that?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Hmm, not to my recollection. I do remember there were government subsidies for obscure "think-tanks" who proposed to narrow major motorways to a boulevard with sidewalks, etc, to "make it more accessible".

Talk about wasting tax money. 

It is true though, that there hasn't been much investment in roads since the early 1980's, so we have to catch up on 30 years of neglect and underinvestment. Add the extensive use of porous asphalt (which is very expensive), and you'll understand that there wasn't much money left-over for road expansion or construction. Last minister Eurlings once stated that "the Netherlands is becoming one solid traffic jam".


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> Add the extensive use of porous asphalt (which is very expensive), and you'll understand that there wasn't much money left-over for road expansion or construction


Do you have any idea of to what extent porous asphalt:

- is more expensive than regular asphalt and concrete for the same m² use?

- can drain more water in case of rain compared to other pavements?


----------



## Mateusz

Suburbanist said:


> :bow:
> 
> Amazing! This construction mood could spread all over the country. For instance, here in Tilburg
> 
> 
> ===============
> 
> I have another question:
> 
> In Heerlen, I notice they've built a quite nice local/through freeway setup. The A76 acts like a "through" freeway, without any exit to Heerlen, save for the bifurcations with N281 (Antwerpseweg) that function as a local expressway with grade separation and junctions with local roads. Now, the actual questions rs:
> 
> - what is the speed limit on N281?
> 
> - which was built first? My guess would be that N281 was the original alignment of A76, but substandard and narrow (too many exits), so they later built the "new" A76 with only one exit as a bypass.
> 
> - do they have any active planes to build new bypasses relocating old (current) alignment as local expressways? The A28 in Amersfoort looks like a good candidate.


Does it have a chance to be the widest piece of road in Europe ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Let me present to you the A12 near Utrecht. This video goes from west to east, and the first part is one of the widest sections in the Netherlands, with no less than 6 lanes eastbound. After that, it's a local-express setup with 10 lanes overall.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Old Lek Bridge Vianen*

The Old Lek Bridge is a Lek River bridge near the town of Vianen, just south of Utrecht. This bridge opened to traffic in 1936 as a 4-lane bridge, and it was subsequently destroyed in war-time in 1945. After that, a pontoon existed to carry traffic across the river, and in 1948 works began to rebuild the bridge. It was completed in 1949 and the bridge reopened to traffic. 

The bridge was reconstructed in 1967, adding a central barrier and bicycle paths on either side. The bridge carried traffic until 1999, when a new six-lane Lek Bridge opened immediately west of the old bridge. A third bridge was constructed in 2004 and carries modern A2. This bridge will be widened to 2x4 lanes in 2011, and there are plans to demolish the old bridge at the same time. A local action group is trying to prevent that, and keep the old bridge as a National monument.


1. 


2. 


3.


4. 


5.


6.


7.


8.


9.


10.


11.


12.


13.


14.


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ A general question: how is, generally speaking, the geological stability of the lowlands here in Netherlands? I know the soil in some regions is terrible to tunnel excavation like in the Randstad. But what about soil stability to accommodate pillars and other load structures?


----------



## Slagathor

^^ Complicated but, weirdly, extremely varied even in the low lands of the West. In many cases, a number of top soils will need to be removed because they're too unstable. They basically dig as far down as they need until they hit a more stable layer. Then they fill the hole with sand. 

But if you go from one polder to another, the situation can vary wildly. Which means extensive research is often necessary before construction.

I should mention I'm not an expert on the situation, but this is what I gather from talking to people who know more about it than I do


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A2 2006:









A2 2010:


----------



## pitchka

Wow the Netherlands is going wild with these highways. Luckily the country is not big so it's easier to set up a grid line of highways all across the country. How do you finance all these widening projects? Do you have a map of U/C and proposed projects?


----------



## Attus

pitchka said:


> Wow the Netherlands is going wild with these highways. Luckily the country is not big so it's easier to set up a grid line of highways all across the country. How do you finance all these widening projects? Do you have a map of U/C and proposed projects?


NL is a small country with a very high population density. 400 people/km2 while e.g. Hungary has 107 and even Germany only 230. So you do not need too much motorways but you hardly find free areas for them.


----------



## sotonsi

Attus, you have to remember that population density generates traffic - the Netherlands won't need motorways that are as long as those in Hungary, but it needs a denser network, and/or wider motorways, because the motorways are busier and need either a second parallel motorway on a similar corridor and/or high capacity on the motorways. While NL doesn't need long motorways, it does need lots (which is what I guess you were getting at with too much).

You are right that it's hard to find the space for them!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Amsterdam - Amersfoort - Hengelo - German border*

*A1 IC Watergraafsmeer - IC Diemen - IC Muiderberg*









_Current status:_
Watergraafsmeer - Diemen: 2x3
Diemen - Muiderberg: 2x3 + reversible lane

_Short-term solution:_
Watergraafsmeer - Diemen: shoulder running
Diemen - Muiderberg: extra reversible lane

Completion: early 2011

_Structural solution:_
Watergraafsmeer - Diemen: widening to 2x4 + shoulder running (5 lanes during rush hour)
Diemen - Muiderberg: widening to 2x5 + 2 reversible lanes + 2 bus lanes, construction of a new 14-lane aquaduct near Muiden.

Completion: 2011 - 2017

*A1 Bussum - IC Eemnes*









_Current status:_
Bussum - interchange Eemnes: 2x2 on a narrow alignment

_Short-term solution:_
Bussum - interchange Eemnes: shoulder running (3 lanes during rush hour)

completion: early 2011

_Structural solution:_
None so far. Structural widening means either a tunnel, double-deck or (very) expensive real estate acquiring. (multi-million houses)

*IC Eemnes - IC Hoevelaken*









_Current status:_
IC Eemnes - IC Hoevelaken: 2x2 lanes

_Structural solution:_
Widening to 2x3 or 2x4 lanes, depending on alternative chosen. 

Completion: 2012 - 2015

_IC Beekbergen - IC Azelo_









_Current status:_
IC Beekbergen - Deventer-Oost: 2x2 + plus lanes (left shoulder running)
Deventer-Oost - IC Azelo: 2x2

_Structural solution:_
IC Beekbergen - Deventer-Oost: 2x4
Deventer-Oost - IC Azelo: 2x3

Completion: unknown, no funding and/or priority yet




*A2 Amsterdam - Utrecht - Eindhoven - Maastricht*

*A2 IC Holendrecht - IC Oudenrijn*









_Current status:_
IC Holendrecht - IC Oudenrijn: 2x3 (provisional widening from 1976)

_Structural solution:_
IC Holendrecht - Maarssen: 2x5
Maarssen - IC Oudenrijn: 2+3+3+2 (including a 10-lane tunnel)

completion: 2010 - 2012

*IC Oudenrijn - IC Everdingen*









_Current status:_
IC Oudenrijn - Nieuwegein: 4+3
Nieuwegein - IC Everdingen: 2x3

_Structural solution:_
IC Oudenrijn - IC Everdingen: 2x4

completion: late 2011

*IC Everdingen - IC Deil*









_Current status:_
IC Everdingen - Culemborg: 2x3
Culemborg - IC Deil: 2x2

_Structural solution:_
IC Everdingen - IC Deil: 2x4

Completion: late 2010

*IC Deil - IC Empel*









_Current status:_
IC Deil - IC Empel: 2x3 

Completion: completed early 2010

*IC Empel - IC Vught*









_Current status:_
IC Empel - IC Vught: 4x2

Completion: completed early 2010

*IC Vught - IC Ekkersweijer*









_Current status:_
IC Vught - IC Ekkersweijer: 2x2

_Structural solution:_
IC Vught - IC Ekkersweijer: 2x3

Completion: 2011 - 2013

*IC Ekkersweijer - IC Leenderheide*









_Current status:_
IC Ekkersweijer - IC De Hogt: 4x2
IC De Hogt - IC Leenderheide: 2+3+3+2

Completion: completed mid-2010

*IC Het Vonderen - IC Kerensheide*









_Current status:_
IC Het Vonderen - IC Kerensheide: 2x2

_Short-term solution:_
IC Het Vonderen - IC Kerensheide: 2x2 plus shoulder running (3 lanes during rush hour)

Completion: 2011 

_Structural solution:_
IC Het Vonderen - IC Kerensheide: none
Fly-over IC Kerensheide to A76

completion: 2013

*A2 Maastricht*









_Current status:_
IC Kruisdonk - IC Europaplein: 2x2 with traffic lights

_Structural solution:_
IC Kruisdonk - IC Europaplein: 4x2 double-deck tunnel

Completion: 2010 - 2016



*A4 Amsterdam - Den Haag - Rotterdam - Belgian border*

*IC De Nieuwe Meer - IC Badhoevedorp*









_Current status:_
IC De Nieuwe Meer - IC Badhoevedorp: 2x3 

_Short-term solution:_
IC De Nieuwe Meer - IC Badhoevedorp: shoulder running (4 lanes during rush hour)

completion: april 2011

*IC Burgerveen - Leiden*









_Current status:_
Zoeterwoude-Rijndijk - Hoogmade: 2x2
Hoogmade - Roelofarendsveen: 2x3
Roelofarendsveen - IC Burgerveen: 2x2

_Structural solution:_
Zoeterwoude-Rijndijk - Hoogmade: 2x3 (including new aquaduct)

completion: 2014

Roelofarendsveen - IC Burgerveen: 2x3 (including new aquaduct)

completion: late 2010

*Delft-Zuid - IC Kethelplein*









_Current status:_
no motorway. Traffic uses saturated 2x3 parallel A13

_Structural solution:_
Construction 2+3 motorway

Completion: 2011 - 2015

*Dinteloord - Halsteren*









_Current status:_
No motorway. Traffic uses N259 or nearby A59/A17

_Structural solution:_
Constrution 2x2 motorway

completion: 2012 - 2013



*A5 Amsterdam - Hoofddorp*

*A10 - IC Raasdorp*









_Current status:_
No motorway. Traffic uses nearby A10 Ring Road

_Structural solution:_
Construction elevated 2x2 motorway

Completion: 2009 - 2012



*A6 Almere - Emmeloord - Joure*

*IC Muiderberg - Almere*









_Current status:_
IC Muiderberg - Almere-S101: 2x3 

_Structural solution:_
IC Muiderberg - Almere-S101: 2x4 + 2 reversible lanes
Almere-S101 - Almere-Buiten-Oost: 4x2

completion: 2011 - 2017

*A7 Zaandam - Heerenveen - Groningen - German border*

*Ring Groningen*









_Current status:_
2x2 N7 expressway with 1 traffic light

_Structural solution:_
construction 2x4 depressed freeway with full interchange with A28.

Completion: 2015 - 2020



*A9 Diemen - Amstelveen - Haarlem - Alkmaar*

*IC Diemen - IC Holendrecht*









_Current status:_
IC Diemen - IC Holendrecht: 2x2 lanes

_Short-term solution:_
shoulder running (3 lanes during rush hour)

completion: late 2010

_Structural solution:_
widening to 2x5 lanes, including tunnel

completion: 2011 - 2017

*IC Holendrecht - IC Badhoevedorp*









_Current status:_
IC Holendrecht - IC Badhoevedorp: 2x3 

_Structural solution:_
IC Holendrecht - IC Badhoevedorp: 2x4 

completion: 2011 - 2017

*IC Badhoevedorp - IC Raasdorp*









_Current status:_
IC Badhoevedorp - IC Raasdorp: 2x2 on narrow alignment

_Short-term solution:_
shoulder running

completion: early 2011

_Structural solution:_
Construction 2x3 motorway on a new alignment

completion: 2012 - 2016

*IC Rottepolderplein - IC Velsen*









_Current status:_
IC Rottepolderplein - IC Velsen: 2x2 on a narrow alignment

_Short-term solution:_
shoulder running, 3 lanes during rush hour.

completion: early 2011

*Uitgeest - Alkmaar*









_Current status:_
Uitgeest - Alkmaar: 2x2

_Short-term solution:_
shoulder running (3 lanes during rursh hour)

completion: late 2011



*A10 Ring Amsterdam*

*IC De Nieuwe Meer - IC Amstel*









_Current status:_
IC De Nieuwe Meer - IC Amstel: 2x3 

_Short-term solution:_
shoulder running (4 lanes during rush hour)

completion: early 2011

*IC Amstel - IC Watergraafsmeer*









_current status:_
IC Amstel - IC Watergraafsmeer: 2x3

_Structural solution:_
IC Amstel - IC Watergraafsmeer: 2x4

completion: 2011 - 2017

*Second Coen Tunnel*









_Current status:_
2x2 tunnel without shoulders

_Structural solution:_
construction of a second tunnel
4x2 lanes including 2 reversible lanes (6 lanes during rush hour)

completion: 2009 - 2012



*A12 Den Haag - Utrecht - Arnhem - German border*

*IC Gouwe - IC Oudenrijn*









_Current status:_
IC Gouwe - Gouda: 2x4
Gouda - Woerden: 2x3
Woerden - De Meern: 3+4
De Meern - IC Oudenrijn: 5+6

_Short-term solution:_
IC Gouwe - Woerden: left shoulder running (4 lanes during rush hour)

completion: mid-2011

_Structural solution:_
Woerden - De Meern: 2x4

Completion: mid-2011

*IC Oudenrijn - Veenendaal*









_Current status:_
IC Oudenrijn - Bunnik: 2x3
Bunnik - Veenendaal: 2x2

_Solutions:_
IC Oudenrijn - Bunnik: 2x4
Bunnik - Driebergen: 2x3 + shoulder running (4 lanes during rush hour)
Driebergen - Maarsbergen: shoulder running (3 lanes during rush hour)
Maarsbergen - Veenendaal: shoulder running (3 lanes during rush hour)

completion: 2010 - 2014

*Ede - IC Grijsoord*









_Current status:_
Ede - IC Grijsoord: 2x2 

_Structural solution:_
Ede - IC Grijsoord: 2x3

Completion: 2012 - 2014

*IC Waterberg - IC Velperbroek*









_Current status:_
IC Waterberg - IC Velperbroek: 2x2

_Structural solution:_
IC Waterberg - IC Velperbroek: 2x3

Completion: 2011 - 2014



*A13 Rotterdam - Den Haag*

*A13-A16 connection*









_Current status:_
No motorway, traffic uses saturated nearby A20

_Structural solution:_
Construction of a 2x2 motorway

Completion: unknown, in procedures.

*A15 Europoort - Rotterdam - Nijmegen*

*Rozenburg - IC Vaanplein*









_Current status:_
Rozenburg - Spijkenisse: 2x2
Spijkenisse - IC Vaanplein: 2x3

_Structural solution:_
Rozenburg - Spijkenisse: 2x3 (partially left shoulder running)
Spijkenisse - IC Vaanplein: 2+3+3+2 (including new 2x2 bridge in addition to existing 2x3 tunnel)

Completion: 2010 - 2015

*IC Ressen - A12 Zevenaar*









_Current status:_
no motorway. Traffic uses A50 or N325

_Structural solution:_
construction of a 2x2 motorway

Completion: unknown, possibly toll road



*A27 Almere - Utrecht - Breda*

*A27 IC Lunetten - IC Rijnsweerd*









_Current status:_
IC Lunetten - IC Rijnsweerd: 2x4 

_Structural solution:_
IC Lunetten - IC Rijnsweerd 4+6 (6 lanes northbound)

Completion: late 2011

*Utrecht-Noord - IC Eemnes*









_Current status:_
Utrecht-Noord - IC Eemnes: 2x2

_Structural solution:_
Utrecht-Noord - IC Eemnes: 2x3 or 2x4, depending on alternative chosen

Completion: 2012 - 2015

*IC Lunetten - IC Hooipolder*









_Current status:_
IC Lunetten - IC Hooipolder: mostly 2x2, some buffer lanes and shoulder running

_Short-term solution:_
IC Lunetten - IC Everdingen: 2x2 + shoulder running (3 lanes during rush hour)

Completion: early 2011

_Structural solution:_
IC Lunetten - IC Hooipolder: 2x3 or 2x3 / 2x4 or 2x3 / 4x2 depending on alternative
Construction of a new Merwede Bridge near Gorinchem (8 lanes)

Completion: 2013 - 2018



*A28 Utrecht - Amersfoort - Zwolle - Groningen*

*IC Rijnsweerd - IC Hoevelaken*









_Current status:_
IC Rijnsweerd - IC Hoevelaken: 2x2

_Short-term solution:_
Amersfoort-Zuid - IC Hoevelaken: left shoulder running (3 lanes during rush hour)

_Structural solution:_
IC Rijnsweerd - Amersfoort-Zuid: 2x3

Completion: 2010 - 2012

Amersfoort-Zuid - IC Hoevelaken: 4x2

Completion: unknown, no funding yet, requires ROW expansion

*IC Hattemerbroek - IC Lankhorst*









_Current status:_
IC Hattemerbroek - Zwolle-Zuid: 2x3
Zwolle-Zuid - Ommen: 2x2 + left shoulder running (3 lanes during rush hour)
Ommen - IC Lankhorst: 2x2

_Structural solution:_
IC Hattemerbroek - Zwolle-Zuid: 2x4
Ommen - IC Lankhorst: 2x3

Completion: early 2011



*A50 Eindhoven - Arnhem - Zwolle*

*IC Ewijk - IC Grijsoord*









_Current status:_
IC Ewijk - IC Grijsoord: 2x2 

_Structural solution:_
IC Ewijk - IC Valburg: 2x4 (including second Waal bridge)

Completion: 2010 - 2014

IC Valburg - IC Grijsoord: 2x3

Completion: mid-2011


----------



## Des

Great overview!!

I think this is incorrect though:

Current status:
Diemen - Muiderberg: 2x4 + reversible lane

It was 2x3 + reversible lane. Now while the construction of another reversible lane are underway it's 2x4 without a reversible lane. And after the work on the reversible lane is finished it should be 2x3 or 2x4 + 2 reversible lanes, right?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ You're right, it is 2x3 + 1 reversible now. Only the section across the Amsterdam-Rhine canal is 2x4.

The short-term solution is 2x3 + 2 reversible lanes.

I'm not done though, but it requires some work  It's a boatload of projects :cheers:


----------



## Suburbanist

^^THAT is what I call "comprehensive coverage". If I get inspired I'll try to make some posts about Italian freeways too.

When you use 4X2 instead of 2X4 are you referring to 2+2+2+2 (local-express setup)?

Do these shoulder running projects have anything to do with the fact that newer cars rarely break down, thus rendering the initial purpose of shoulders somehow obsolete ("somehow", I mean)?

In Italy they made some studies and found out that, after privatization/PPP/concession of most of Italian freeways in 1997, within 10 years the number of occurrences where drivers parked in a shoulder dropped more than 70% as older cars were being "phased out". Then, it became more widespread accepted the construction of new freeways with narrower shoulders if necessary and - more important - the construction of 2X1 expressways with "parking islands" every 2km instead of shoulders became accepted.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

All done! It's quite impressive, don't you think? :cheers:

But we have 25 years of underinvestment and neglect to attend to, so it was about damn time.




Suburbanist said:


> When you use 4X2 instead of 2X4 are you referring to 2+2+2+2 (local-express setup)?


Yes. Apparently, _Rijkswaterstaat_ is quite keen on local-express motorways, even at just 8 lanes. I don't think it's really necessary unless you're going wider than 10 lanes or when there are more than 4 exits every 3 km.


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## Falusi

:eek2: Great report! kay:

How long did it take to make that?


----------



## peezet

What about the A58 near Breda and Eindhoven? I thought it would be widened too.


----------



## Suburbanist

peezet said:


> What about the A58 near Breda and Eindhoven? I thought it would be widened too.


I guess Noord Brabant, Frîsland and Flevoland are the provinces that are going to see fewer projects hno:

In terms of backyard projects (for me) I'd like to see the extension of the A261 to Waalwijk, the upgrade of A59 to full freeway standards near Drune and, most important of all, construction of A65 between Vught and Oisterwijk


----------



## ChrisZwolle

peezet said:


> What about the A58 near Breda and Eindhoven? I thought it would be widened too.


Only the westbound lanes from IC Batadorp to Oirschot will get one extra lane. That's a minor projects, I didn't take those into account, just like the extra lane on A2 from IC Leenderheide to Valkenswaard and on A29 from IC Vaanplein to Oud-Beijerland.

There are currently no advanced plans for a widening near Breda (although I do think it's a good idea to widen A58 between Eindhoven and Breda).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> I guess Noord Brabant, Frîsland and Flevoland are the provinces that are going to see fewer projects hno:


Noord-Brabant already saw extensive road projects in the last 10 years;

* A2 IC Deil - IC Empel => 2x3
* A2 IC Empel - IC Vught => 4x2
* A2 IC Ekkersweijer - IC Leenderheide => 4x2 / 2+3+3+2
* A16 IC Klaverpolder - IC Galder => 2x3
* A50 construction Eindhoven - Oss

I agree about A65 though, it's a pain in the ass with all those traffic lights. 

Fryslân has almost no problems, but they will construct a 2x2 N31 bypass around Leeuwarden. (not included because it isn't an A-road). Recently the N7 through Sneek has been rebuilt to 2x2 grade-separated and the N31 has been constructed as a 2x2 expressway from Leeuwarden to Drachten, as well as the section from IC Zurich to Harlingen. 

What's needed in Fryslân is the reconstruction of the Joure roundabout, where A6 meets A7. 

Flevoland also has limited traffic problems outside of the Almere area, but the A6 is included above. The N23 1x2 expressway is currently U/C from Lelystad to Dronten and later on towards Kampen.


----------



## Slagathor

JeremyCastle said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Been busy, haven't had a chance to post anything here in a couple months, it's good to be back.
> 
> Was having a conversation with something recently, and I told them that in 2007, I purchased a UK car and drove it to Norway and back(yes, I had insurance)on my US driver's license(California). He told me that what I did was illegal. *I could have rented a car in London and drove it to France, but in no way was I allowed to purchase a British car and drive it to Europe.*
> 
> I have no idea where else to post this question, so sorry if it's in the wrong area. Anyone know if I was truly in the wrong or does this guy not know what I he's talking about.
> 
> If I had been stopped by the police, say in France or The Netherlands, and presented my California license yet with proof that I owned the British car, what would they have possibly done? I am now living in the UK, and have a UK licence, so this wouldn't be an issue for me anymore, but I never gave it any thought until recently!
> 
> Thanks for info, I am curious as to whether I broke the law or not!  I'll post this question in the French or British motorways as well and see what people say.


I think he got that the wrong way around.

In 2006 I was involved in a car crash on the M25 around London. I was in my own car, a Dutch car (purchased and owned by me) and I was visiting the UK. My car was totaled and I tried to arrange alternative transportation to get back to Holland through my insurance company.

My contact at the insurance company tried to arrange a rental car for me by calling several companies, but she then told me this was a dead end because no rental company would allow me to take a British rental car (with the steering wheel on the right) to the continent. Something to do with insurance.

Since I didn't have the cash to buy a car, I opted for a plane ticket in the end.


----------



## Des

I can't believe A6 between Almere and Lelystad won't be widened any time soon! It's such a pain to drive and there are often jams. And it should be very easy to widen as all the bridges are already prepared for more lanes, so it's just a matter of adding some more asphalt.


----------



## Suburbanist

Des said:


> I can't believe A6 between Almere and Lelystad won't be widened any time soon! It's such a pain to drive and there are often jams. And it should be very easy to widen as all the bridges are already prepared for more lanes, so it's just a matter of adding some more asphalt.


You need to know whether those jams are caused by further retentions southward. If that is the case, maybe widening is not needed right now.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A6 carries only 57,000 vehicles per day between Almere and Lelystad. Similar to A50 Apeldoorn - Zwolle or A28 Harderwijk - Zwolle.

I think A27 needs to be widened to 2x3 as well between IC Eemnes and Almere in order to cope with the growth of Almere. The section between Eemnes and Huizen is already nearing 80,000 vehicles per day.


----------



## Des

ChrisZwolle said:


> A6 carries only 57,000 vehicles per day between Almere and Lelystad. Similar to A50 Apeldoorn - Zwolle or A28 Harderwijk - Zwolle.
> 
> I think A27 needs to be widened to 2x3 as well between IC Eemnes and Almere in order to cope with the growth of Almere. The section between Eemnes and Huizen is already nearing 80,000 vehicles per day.


Ah I thought it would be more! Maybe traffic there is worse in the weekends when I drive there often. 

I think the whole A27 should be widened. In the central Netherlands the A27 and A15 are major bottlenecks.


----------



## woutero

Chris, in your post you talk about the widening of A6 from Muiderberg to Almere (S101). I always understood that the A6 would be widened until the north of Almere (S106). With 2x4 between Muiderberg and S101, and 4x2 between S101 and S106. 

Some more minor projects in these 'low investment areas':
- Widening of N31 in Harlingen
- Upgrading of N50 between Kampen and Emmeloord


----------



## Qaabus

Suburbanist said:


> In terms of backyard projects (for me) I'd like to see the extension of the A261 to Waalwijk, the upgrade of A59 to full freeway standards near Drune and, most important of all, construction of A65 between Vught and Oisterwijk


The N261 between the A59 and Loon op Zand will be completely grade seperated. Planned completion 2015.


----------



## lambersart2005

Great overview, when do you sleep? :nuts:

Is it really that hey widen the A27 on the eastern edge of Utrecht to 4+6???!!!! Incredible! 6 lanes all the way through or a collector/express layout? Has construction already started? You mentioned a completion in 2011 already? 

The Netherlands is really going to get Europe's California or one big Atlanta 

:cheers: ;-)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The 4+6 on the eastern side of Utrecht is 2x4 already. The 4 lanes each way are 2 through lanes and 2 weaving lanes between both interchanges (which are only 2 km apart). The northbound carriageway will be widened to six lanes using the existing ROW, they will convert the left and right shoulder to driving lanes, that's why it can be done quite fast. 

Here's how it looks today. The right carriageway will be widened to six lanes; 3 through and 3 exit lanes.


----------



## sotonsi

Is there a map like http://www.roadsuk.com/documents/network_map_lanes.pdf for the Netherlands? It'll be interesting to see a now and a future one.


----------



## MAG

A most excellent summary, Chris. 

I have a couple of questions:
- what's the price tag for these projects?
- is the A15 extension to Zevenaar finally approved? What's it going to be: a tunnel or an overground road (you might have written about this previously, so I apologise)? And why will it be a toll road? Most un-Dutch-like!


.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Dutch highway patrol pulled over an unauthorized oversize load. Two trucks were carrying the biggest demolition crane of Western Europe on A12 between Utrecht and Gouda. They did not have any permits to drive around such a load. It was too long, too wide and too heavy. One truck was weighing 110 tonnes, over 2 times the maximum load permitted in the Netherlands. They were detected by a weight-in-motion system. The whole combination was 32,50 meters long, exceeding the maximum non-convoy exceptionnel length by 10 meters.


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Dutch highway patrol pulled over an unauthorized oversize load. Two trucks were carrying the biggest demolition crane of Western Europe on A12 between Utrecht and Gouda. They did not have any permits to drive around such a load. It was too long, too wide and too heavy. One truck was weighing 110 tonnes, over 2 times the maximum load permitted in the Netherlands. They were detected by a weight-in-motion system. The whole combination was 32,50 meters long, exceeding the maximum non-convoy exceptionnel length by 10 meters.


:eek2:

What the hell were the transportation company thinking? Do you know which country are the trucks, drivers and transportation company from?

Unbelievable! Even me, a car driver only, know about general height, length and weight restrictions!

I hope, AT LEAST, those trucks were fit with special brakes to cope with the extra weight.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It was a Dutch trucking company, apparently specialized in oversized load trucking as the convoy did have an escort, just not the proper permits.


----------



## Jeskaj

Why do they not build the missing part of the A15 south of Zevenaar? Then you don't have to make a new interchange.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Then A15 would have to run for a significant distance through the "Kleine Gelderse Waard" natural area. An A15 west of Zevenaar would only touch the edges of this area. 

I don't think the Dutch government should fund this project if it really will be a toll road. I mean, € 1 billion of tax money for 13 kilometers of motorway and then still a toll road? No thank you.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

After 15 years of procedures, minister Eurlings will sign the record of decision of the *A74 motorway* today!

The A74 will be a short 2 kilometer motorway south of Venlo that will connect the Dutch motorway network with the German Autobahn A61. Construction commenced in Germany this month, and hopefully the motorway can be opened in 2012.

location:









15 years of procedures for a mere 2.000 meters of motorway. Typical Dutch.


----------



## Coccodrillo

ChrisZwolle said:


> Typical Dutch.


Absolutely not, I assure you...


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> After 15 years of procedures, minister Eurlings will sign the record of decision of the *A74 motorway* today!
> 
> The A74 will be a short 2 kilometer motorway south of Venlo that will connect the Dutch motorway network with the German Autobahn A61. Construction commenced in Germany this month, and hopefully the motorway can be opened in 2012.


I can see most of the alignment lies within German on the stretch that follows the border. How are they going to spill the costs? It would be cool (although unpractical) to have the eastbound lanes in Germany and the westbound lanes in Netherlands, with a wide median, for several hundred meters, so each country would maintain its own lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Coccodrillo said:


> Absolutely not, I assure you...


Well, the procedures may be "only" 15 years, it usually takes another 10 years to get a traffic bottleneck acknowledged by politicians in the first place. As A61 opened in the first half of the 1970's, this has been a missing link for at least 35 years now.


----------



## Astenaar

ChrisZwolle said:


> Well, the procedures may be "only" 15 years, it usually takes another 10 years to get a traffic bottleneck acknowledged by politicians in the first place. As A61 opened in the first half of the 1970's, this has been a missing link for at least 35 years now.


Well, in those days traffic wasn't as intense as it now is. Besides that, it's only a missing link since the opening of the a73-zuid.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Astenaar said:


> Well, in those days traffic wasn't as intense as it now is. Besides that, it's only a missing link since the opening of the a73-zuid.


No, the A73-zuid has nothing to do with it, as it serves north-south traffic. A73 from Nijmegen to Venlo was lastly completed in the 1990's, but the section of A73 around Venlo already opened in 1970, together with the last section of A67, and German A61 followed somewhere between '71 and '76, hence it was a missing link ever since. 

Back in those days, two variants were surveyed, one on the current planned alignment south of Venlo, and one on the eastern side of Venlo, the so-called "Klagenfurt Variant". The planning stages of the Venlo bypass were separately from the construction of A73 from Venlo to Roermond.


----------



## Alqaszar

Well, there was a lot of discussion on the German side, too. Maybe the two administrations didn't always work synchronously, which additionally dealyed the planning process in this special case.

Btw, the section of the A 61 from the Keulse Plein to Breyell was planned as "Ersatzbundesstraße" ("replacement federal highway") for the B 7 Venlo - Viersen - Düsseldorf. Originally, it was built without hard shoulders, and the narrow curves near Breyell are the witnesses that this street once has been sub-motorway-standard.


----------



## tripleseis

While I'm of the opinion that the quality of Dutch roads is superior to that of the UK (signage, surfacing, traffic lights, cycle and PT provision are all miles ahead of us), I agree that you do have some serous issues around congestion and some really uneeded road restrictions and odd layouts.



ChrisZwolle said:


> *speed limits*
> Are generally low, especially compared to our neighbours, also without good reasons. Why automatically lower speed limits of an entire rural road network just because it isn't classified as a main road? 60-zones pop up all over the country, and they often don't make sense.


We have a nack for doing that here in the UK. Often perfectly safe roads to go faster on have their limits reduced and speed cameras placed there. There is one stretch of road in Oxford that has no houses or commerce leading on it and the limit is 30mph when you could easily do 40mph without any problems. There were regularly mobile speed cameras stationed there in the peaks.



ChrisZwolle said:


> *Road layout*
> Traffic calming was the keyword from the 1980's onwards. Narrow lanes, crazy amounts of speed bumps, narrowings, weird routings were thought to reduce automobility. Now we know better than that.


I've driven around residential areas/towns in the Netherlands (very pleasant!) and believe me you don't have as many speed bumps as we do! Also, yours tend to be not very high and in good condition. The state of the roads there are in very good condition also and not as cluttered. Here in London, the state of lot of our speed bumps is terrible. Some are way too high, in a very bad state (potholed, uneven, etc) due to traffic use and others placed where they really aren't needed. Some road narrowings can be justified - there's one at the end of my street that's clearly there to stop HGVs using that road (which is 99% residential) as a rat run. Also I wish the cul-de-sac where I live was like a Dutch Woonerf because in it's current state it's littered with potholes and uninviting.


----------



## Planen B

Suburbanist said:


> I can see most of the alignment lies within German on the stretch that follows the border. How are they going to spill the costs? It would be cool (although unpractical) to have the eastbound lanes in Germany and the westbound lanes in Netherlands, with a wide median, for several hundred meters, so each country would maintain its own lanes.


About half of the total stretch is in NL and the other half in DE though, so maybe they're splitting the costs that way, or it's a total coincidence ^_^


----------



## Des

Astenaar said:


> Well, in those days traffic wasn't as intense as it now is. Besides that, it's only a missing link since the opening of the a73-zuid.


I have driven through Venlo a lot in recent years on the way to Switzerland and Southern-Germany as I prefer driving via the A61 over the A3. But this tiny bit of motor way would make my journey a lot easier. I've had some major delays on the route through and around Venlo that connects with the A67. So hopefully I can soon finally enjoy the new bit of highway connecting the A61 and A73!


----------



## Trabbuco

Im not really following this thread, but did anyone know that the A6 near Almere is getting 6x6 lanes? 12 total!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

6x6 = 36

That aside, the A6 near Almere will get 2x4 lanes plus a double reversible lane. That means 6 lanes during rush hour, but not 6 lanes each way at the same time.


----------



## g.spinoza

ChrisZwolle said:


> 6x6 = 36


Not necessarily. A 4x4 drive car doesn't have 16 wheels


----------



## Planen B

ChrisZwolle said:


> 6x6 = 36
> 
> That aside, the A6 near Almere will get 2x4 lanes plus a double reversible lane. That means 6 lanes during rush hour, but not 6 lanes each way at the same time.


Looking at the maps over the majority of the route between interchange with the A1 and the Hogering it's actually more like 4+5 and 2 tidal lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Possible. They are quite keen on long merging lanes that extend from one exit to the other, providing some extra capacity (not a lot though). 

However, it has become quite quiet about the new Muiderberg Bridge. I believe plans were scaled back because of the pricetag? (not in terms of capacity, but in terms of design, the new bridge will be more functional, and less extravaganza, so no major landmark).


----------



## Planen B

That's a shame, they finally could've turned the Hollandse Brug into something nice. Right now it's a bit of faceless bridge so to speak, when it really is the main (highway) entry to Almere and beyond.


----------



## Trabbuco

ChrisZwolle said:


> 6x6 = 36
> 
> That aside, the A6 near Almere will get 2x4 lanes plus a double reversible lane. That means 6 lanes during rush hour, but not 6 lanes each way at the same time.


Sorry, i meant 2x6 :lol: (6 each way). But i don't know much about it, i just heard it at the local tv station..


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A video of all 4 motorway tunnels under the IJ River in Amsterdam.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 "Superhighway"*


A2-Abcoude-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A2-Abcoude-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A2-Abcoude-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A2-Abcoude-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A2-Abcoude-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A2-Abcoude-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ Quite impressive.
How many vehicles per day pass through this highway?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Today: approximately 180,000 vehicles
2020: approximately 250,000 vehicles

All because the Utrecht area is booming with new housing developments. The "Leidsche Rijn" housing project alone is impressive at 90,000 new inhabitants.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another video:

This one covers the new A4 ringvaart aquaduct, then the 10-lane section to Schiphol, A5 between the Schiphol runways and ultimately the A9 up to Haarlem.


----------



## CNGL

^^ They should number the exit for Haarlem-Zuid, as is no longer an autosnelweg...


----------



## julesstoop

ChrisZwolle said:


> A video of all 4 motorway tunnels under the IJ River in Amsterdam.


Thanks for posting, nice video!

Not to be cocky, but the 'IJ' is not a river. It used to be a bay at the edge of the 'Zuiderzee', which became connected to the north sea, with a man made channel westwards sea. Most of the tunnels actually run under this dig. (But I'm pretty sure you already know this)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It was just to simplify things  

Technically, the first two videos are going under the North Sea Canal, which is connected to the IJ. 

Water bodies changing names is quite common in the Netherlands. For example when the Rijn (Rhine) enters the Netherlands, it splits in the Waal and Pannerdensch Canal; 

Rhine -> Waal -> Merwede -> Nieuwe Merwede -> Hollands Diep -> Haringvliet -> North Sea.
Rhine -> Pannerdensch Canal -> Nederrijn -> Lek -> Nieuwe Maas -> Nieuwe Waterweg -> North Sea


----------



## ed110220

Very nice photos, I particularly like the wide grassy median! It's much nicer than a concrete or steel crash barrier. Is that an insurance policy in case further widening is necessary?


----------



## Des

@Ed110220: No the wide median is necessary because otherwise the side that has been newly build on the weak soil could push the old base away. It takes a couple years for all the ground under the new asphalt to be settled completely and during that time the median forms a buffer.

Additionally I used Chris's photo to show the difference between 2006 and 2010:










Spot the differences! The 100 km/h sign is at the same place as it was in 2006.


----------



## seem

Why there is not some crash barrier?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Tired of having trucks and cars causing wrecks? How about an airplane?





































Location: A44 North of Leiden.


----------



## Des

ChrisZwolle said:


> Tired of having trucks and cars causing wrecks? How about an airplane?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Location: A44 North of Leiden.


~

Oh shit! Isn't that the Dakota that was going to be used in the 'Soldaat van Oranje' musical?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes it was. 

It has to be noted the A44 is one of the narrowest motorways in the Randstad. (and about the only one which still has a 120 km/h limit)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A50 IC Ewijk - IC Valburg*

Good news about the construction of the second Waal Bridge near Ewijk.

An action group has lost an appeal at the Council of State against _Rijkswaterstaat_. They wanted to stop the cutting of a few trees for the new bridge, arguing _Rijkswaterstaat_ didn't obtained a cutting permit. However, the cutting of these trees falls under the so-called "forest law", which was solidified in the record of decision. 

The appeal didn't stand any ground, and works can proceed to construct the second Waal Bridge as planned.

The current A50 runs across the 4-lane Waal Bridge. A second Waal Bridge will be constructed to widen the A50 in this section to 8 lanes. Completion in 2014.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Utrecht - Amsterdam "Superhighway"*

Let me present the awesomest motorway in the Netherlands.

tip: play it on youtube (double-click video) and select 720 or 1080p and watch it full-screen!


----------



## CNGL

^^ What happened to exit 2?
I want to see the video at 240p, because even at 360p gets me laggy because of traffic!


----------



## Des

CNGL said:


> ^^ What happened to exit 2?
> I want to see the video at 240p, because even at 360p gets me laggy because of traffic!


I think AMC is exit 2 but to take exit 2 you have to follow the lanes for A9 after exit Abcoude.


----------



## Des

ChrisZwolle said:


> *A2 Utrecht - Amsterdam "Superhighway"*
> 
> Let me present the awesomest motorway in the Netherlands.
> 
> tip: play it on youtube (double-click video) and select 720 or 1080p and watch it full-screen!


Very nice Chris! :cheers1:


----------



## JeremyCastle

ChrisZwolle said:


> *A2 Utrecht - Amsterdam "Superhighway"*
> 
> Let me present the awesomest motorway in the Netherlands.
> 
> tip: play it on youtube (double-click video) and select 720 or 1080p and watch it full-screen!


Great video Chris! Looking at freeways of The Netherlands always reminds me of the Stockton/Sacramento area of California. Now, if only our freeways looked as pleasing to the eye as Dutch ones!... Sigh. :bash:


----------



## Suburbanist

JeremyCastle said:


> Great video Chris! Looking at freeways of The Netherlands always reminds me of the Stockton/Sacramento area of California. Now, if only our freeways looked as pleasing to the eye as Dutch ones!... Sigh. :bash:


On the other side, I barely dream of seeing any typical American freeway moving fleet on Chris Dutch highway videos... I've never seen a Suburban, Trailblazer or 4Runner on our roads...


----------



## JeremyCastle

Suburbanist said:


> On the other side, I barely dream of seeing any typical American freeway moving fleet on Chris Dutch highway videos... I've never seen a Suburban, Trailblazer or 4Runner on our roads...


You occasionally see one here in the UK. In Norway, I saw quite a few. There has to be some in The Netherlands somewhere.


----------



## snowman159

I'm surprised to see that it narrows down to only two lanes as it's approaching the A10. Isn't that a problem during morning rush hours? Was that a deliberate attempt to steer traffic flows in the area or were there other reasons?

PS: really awesome video, btw kay:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The idea is to widen A2 within interchange Holendrecht to 2x5 lanes. However, this will consist by adding a 3rd lane from A9 to the Ouderkerk exit, and it looks like that small 2-lane section will remain at the northern section of interchange Holendrecht. Apparently, 2 lanes is considered enough to handle the traffic flow towards Amsterdam. 

The intersecting A9 will be widened to 2x4 lanes towards Schiphol (west), and 2x5 lanes to Diemen (east).

It has to be noted though, that most major job centers in the Amsterdam region are south of the North Sea Canal / IJ River. Therefor, the amount of through traffic from Utrecht to the north of Amsterdam or further is pretty limited. A9 will absorb a lot of traffic coming from Utrecht.

However, my gut feeling is that 2 lanes will not be enough in the further future, especially not with all the developments along A10 in the South of Amsterdam. However, it also has to be noted the full 5-lane capacity will not be used for at least another 5 - 10 years.


----------



## Des

^^ As Chris says a lot of traffic on the northbound A2 heads towards Amstelveen and Schiphol Airport via the westbound A9. So the northbound 2 lanes are hardly a problem currently. 

Southbound the 2 lanes at KP Holendrecht are a bigger problem and causes jams on a daily basis.


----------



## aswnl

The section Holendrecht-Amstel will be a problem soon after the Utrecht land tunnel will be opened. However there's no money to start a project. Although with simple adjustments of only M€ 10 (including an EMA for 1000 metres of real widening with 1 lane) this could be solved. Well, I think the money comes after all when the problem will arise visibly...


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## ChrisZwolle

*A5 Amsterdam*

The first of a series of lateral beams of the A5 will be placed tonight. The first one is 27 meters long, and the longest constructed so far in the Netherlands. Dozens more will follow suit. They will bear the 3.3 kilometer long elevated motorway in the industrial west of Amsterdam. It will be the longest elevated motorway in the Netherlands. Completion is planned for 2012, with a full opening in 2013 because the old Coen Tunnel will have to be renovated once the second one is completed.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Asphalt types in the Netherlands.


asfalt by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

Green = types of porous asphalt
Blue = regular dense asphalt
Purple = concrete

As you can see there isn't much concrete (the A1 section has just been repaved with asphalt). The majority of the motorway mileage has porous asphalt.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Porous asphalt? What is that?

Here we have asphalt, concretic (dunno what that is, but have seen it in tenders for paving contracts put out by the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure) and sealcoat (chip seal) Some roads are still gravel/dirt. Rougher than s**t too, but those are mainly forestry/logging roads.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Porous asphalt has superior drainage and noise features, but is more expensive and less durable. Apart from the Netherlands, it's also used extensively in France and Italy. Other countries do not use it as much.


----------



## Bibelo

porous asphalt is type kind of asphalt that contains bigger granulate (stones) and thus bigger voids in between them. We call it 'very open asphalt concrete' ('zeer open asfalt beton' (ZOAB). 
This type of asphalt reduces noise considerable and gives water more room to flow away and thereby reduces dangerous situations with hydroplaning or aquaplaning.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Bibelo said:


> This type of asphalt reduces noise considerable and gives water more room to flow away and thereby reduces dangerous situations with hydroplaning or aquaplaning.


And, also important, reduces splash to near-zero, thus avoiding that capacity decreases during precipitation on our saturated roads.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Flooding on A1 near Oldenzaal.


----------



## piotr71

ChrisZwolle said:


> Porous asphalt has superior drainage and noise features, but is more expensive and less durable. Apart from the Netherlands, it's also used extensively in France and Italy. Other countries do not use it as much.


I think this kind of asphalt is extensively used in GB. There is significant difference, though in noise level between recently laid-out sections comparing to older ones.


----------



## g.spinoza

In Italy, Autostrade per l'Italia claims to have covered with porous asphalt 81.6% of its network


> corresponding to 100% excluding tunnels, mountain sections and sections under widening works.


Autostrade per l'Italia does not run all Italian autostrade, so there are sections where porous asphalt is not laid down yet.

However, you can really see the difference, expecially in terms of splashes, as Chris previously said.


----------



## Carldiff

Just got back from Amsterdam, the new section of the A2 is cool, on the way five lanes were open and we were very late because of the French N roads, so we bombed along the A2 to make time up around Utrecht, the left two lanes were deserted. On the way back only three lanes were open and there was a long traffic jam; it took five hours in all to reach Calais because of delays around Amsterdam, Utrecht and Antwerp.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You do know the 100 km/h limit is often enforced? Unfortunately, it can cost you quite some money to "bomb along A2".


----------



## ChrisZwolle

All 4 lanes have been opened on the southbound A2 between IC Everdingen and IC Deil. This effectively eliminated a 20 kilometer daily traffic jam! :cheers:

Camera image:









Before today, the right lanes (southbound) were queued up pretty badly. Even the serious rain we have today does not create congestion.

Another great improvement on our superhighway!


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## ChrisZwolle

Some aerial eyecandy of the A2/N2 around Eindhoven.


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## ChrisZwolle

Another nice project in northern Netherlands is the widening of N33 to 2x2 lanes, and replacing the N33/N34 roundabout with a dive-under:


----------



## zwanneman2

When is that N33 project planned to be finished?


----------



## bleetz

Stunning stuff, as can be expected from NL.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

bleetz said:


> Stunning stuff, as can be expected from NL.


I'd say the Dutch road construction improved dramatically compared to the lean 1980's and 1990's (and even early 2000's). The current construction boom is the biggest one since the early 70's, I think. 

This can be attributed to a number of factors;

* Air quality is now dealt with in a different way, such that projects do not need to be surveyed individually if they are part of a government program to improve air quality. This left the anti-car brigade with few other options to frustrate road widening schemes.
* Air quality is constantly improving. Contrary to popular belief, PM10 emissions (particle matter) by road traffic adds very little to overall concentrations. NO2 (nitrogen dioxide) emissions by traffic is much bigger, but is dealt with by the tight norms of the Euro norms, thus air quality isn't the obstacle it once was. 
* A special commission has been set up to survey how road building procedures can be eased, without losing out on democratic rights. This reduced the average procedure time from 11 to 3 years. 
* Our last transport minister, Camiel Eurlings, did a great job getting new projects through, some of which had been stalled since the 1960's. Over 75 road projects have been executed during his tenure, more than several other ministers preceding him combined. 
* The crisis- and recovery act opened up additional funding for road construction projects to improve the economy. Money seems to be almost no issue now, the amount of money spent on road projects between 2006 and 2015 will be mind-boggling compared to the 2 preceding decades. Dutch motorists are now finally getting what they're paid for.


----------



## ArthurK

zwanneman2 said:


> When is that N33 project planned to be finished?


The dive-unders under the roundabout near Gieten will be opened on April 1st 2011. Initially in an 1x2 expressway setup, but fully prepared for the widening to 2x2 expressway which is planned for the near future. Current planning shows the widening should be completed in 2014. This is the initial lay-out of the new Gieten Roundabout, with just 1x2 through the dive-unders:









Unfortunately, the proposed cloverleaf interchange at Zuidbroek (highway A7) has been replaced by two roundabouts with bypasses in the latest plans. It's a flaw, but they had to cut spending.


----------



## nestea_lemon

Why don't they just widen it to 2x3? Widening is not cheap and when you have 1x1 road and leave space for widening, why not just widen it to 2x3 and save yourself trouble of construction every 10 years?


----------



## Suburbanist

*Dutch can expect cuts, but more roads too*

_I just grabbed this article on RNW:_

================
*The incoming right-wing government in the Netherlands is planning a huge motorway building drive, despite the need for drastic cuts in the national budget.* :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

According to leaked documents quoted by daily De Telegraaf the government programme includes an increase of "hundreds of millions of euros" on the current budget for motorway construction and maintenance, which is three billion euros a year.

The additional spending is aimed at fighting traffic jams, which in the view of the free-market liberal VVD party are hampering the economy. It is not clear whether the new government will make similar extra investments in public transport, nor for that matter have any cuts in rail and bus service funding been indicated.

*Multi-billion cuts*
Over a four-year period, the VVD-led government is planning spending reductions of up to 16 billion euros to counter the effects of the economic and banking crisis of the last two years.

The budget plans are provisional, because the right-wing coalition is not in office yet. It is expected that the coalition accord between VVD and Christian Democrats will be sealed by MPs this week, followed by a declaration of support from the 24 Freedom Party MPs who are needed to give the cabinet majority support in parliament.

_© Radio Netherlands Worldwide_


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another example of the lack of reality by Dutch policy makers. The N242 was downgraded from 100 km/h to 80 km/h a while ago.

The police did a speed check. Out of 489 drivers checked, 489 drivers exceeded the speed limit. Not a single driver was obeying the speed limit! The highest recorded speed was 111 km/h. 

Please, Netherlands, return to common sense!


----------



## mgk920

Suburbanist said:


> _I just grabbed this article on RNW:_
> 
> ================
> *The incoming right-wing government in the Netherlands is planning a huge motorway building drive, despite the need for drastic cuts in the national budget.* :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
> 
> According to leaked documents quoted by daily De Telegraaf the government programme includes an increase of "hundreds of millions of euros" on the current budget for motorway construction and maintenance, which is three billion euros a year.
> 
> The additional spending is aimed at fighting traffic jams, which in the view of the free-market liberal VVD party are hampering the economy. It is not clear whether the new government will make similar extra investments in public transport, nor for that matter have any cuts in rail and bus service funding been indicated.
> 
> *Multi-billion cuts*
> Over a four-year period, the VVD-led government is planning spending reductions of up to 16 billion euros to counter the effects of the economic and banking crisis of the last two years.
> 
> The budget plans are provisional, because the right-wing coalition is not in office yet. It is expected that the coalition accord between VVD and Christian Democrats will be sealed by MPs this week, followed by a declaration of support from the 24 Freedom Party MPs who are needed to give the cabinet majority support in parliament.
> 
> _© Radio Netherlands Worldwide_


I fully agree with that reasoning. I am far, far, far more open to spending public treasure on capital infrastructure upgrades (and the maintenance thereof) than I am to throw it into the bottomless pit of social programs - this precisely because road, rail, etc upgrades are _economic enablers_, allowing for more wholesome, long-term private-sector economic activity to flourish. And when I promote this opinion in domestic political discussions here in the USA, I also flatly state that I will *NEVER* *EVER* tout how many jobs are 'created' by the act of building the upgrades as those jobs will all go 'poof!' as soon as the projects are completed - it is the economic enabling aspects, the more fluid nature of commerce that the projects will allow, that I champion.

:cheers1:

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A video of the new 4-lane southbound carriageway on A2 from IC Everdingen to IC Deil:


----------



## Suburbanist

*New coalition might increase speed limits on highways to 130km/h*

From RNW:



> The Qur'an will not be banned, headscarves will not be taxed, and Muslims will not be deported en masse. Geert Wilders did not get everything he wanted in the coalition agreement between the conservative VVD and the Christian Democrats, propped up by his own Freedom Party (PVV).
> 
> So what did Mr Wilders get in return for supporting this minority cabinet? These are the main PVV points:
> 
> 
> There will be a complete ban on burqas, and police and justice employees will not be allowed to wear headscarves;
> Conditional passports for new immigrants - to be withdrawn if they commit crimes in the first five years;
> The pension age will only be raised to 66 not 67;
> An extra 2,500 police officers;
> Animal police will be introduced. 500 officers will look after the welfare of animals in the Netherlands;
> The duration of unemployment benefit payments will not be reduced;
> *Maximum speed on the motorway will be increased to 130 kilometres per hour;*
> The current smoking ban will be lifted for small cafés


Complete article here: http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/dutch-coalition-agreement-whats-it-wilders


----------



## PLH

Will or only might?

And how about all these no-passing-roads?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

If you don't consider the anti-Islam points, Geert Wilders is almost as leftist as the socialist party...


----------



## sotonsi

"Far-right" labelling of national socialists seems a smear to me that has polluted the water. Sarah Palin and the Tea Party movement keeps on getting called "fascist" by the British media, but as far as I can see it's economically the opposite, and has the opposite doctrine of the state - instead of all powerful it's limited government that they want.

And we had lots of talk about a 'liberal alliance' between the Labour and Lib Dem parties after the election - despite Labour being the least liberal of the parties who won seats (the Green party are are about the same - more economically authoritarian, but more socially liberal).

The UK Labour party at the last election were basically politically the same as the 'far-right' BNP, other than on the EU, the death penalty, homosexuality (where they were nearly at opposite sides of the spectrum - the BNP wanting to ban any speech that, while discussing the topic wasn't anti-, and Labour wanting to ban any speech that wasn't pro-) and deporting immigrants. Both want to have a fairly controlled economy, both wanted to be socially authoritarian (and Labour came higher there than the Tories). The BNP get votes from white working class people, mostly in ex-industrial towns - natural Labour territory - but time after time the media talks as if they are the Tories turned up to 11, rather than Labour.

One can only guess that the Freedom party can only be in the coalition because the other two parties are socially a bit authoritarian, as the dominant axis in mainstream Western politics is that social authoritarianism is inversely proportional to economic authoritarianism, which seems odd to me. We call socially authoritarian right wing, and economic authoritarian left wing, but with some people who are authoritarian with both (Labour under Brown, National Socialists) we go all weird - using 'right-wing' like a term of derision (like the right in the USA use 'socialist') for the parties we rightly don't like, but then go all dewy-eyed and call parties 'liberal' because they are economically authoritarian, but aren't quite socially-authoritarian enough to support hanging, arresting homosexuals and deporting immigrants. Madness.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Video: A59 Den Bosch - Oss*

A short video (3 minutes) of the relatively new (completed 2005) motorway A59 between Den Bosch (also spelled: 's-Hertogenbosch) and interchange Paalgraven near Oss.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2: 4 lanes IC Everdingen - IC Deil*

The southbound carriageway of A2 between interchanges Everdingen and Deil opened with 4 lanes last Monday. Here are some pictures from Wednesday.

1. KP Everdingen, 3e rijstrook komt erbij.
IMG_5049 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

2. 4e rijstrook komt erbij. 4 rijstroken voor de komende 15 kilometer.
IMG_5051 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

3. viaduct Autenasekade.
IMG_5052 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

4. Lekker breed. Alle files zijn als sneeuw voor de zon verdwenen.
IMG_5054 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

5. Geen linker vluchtstroken.
IMG_5055 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

6. Afrit Everdingen.
IMG_5056 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

7. Culemborg is niet veel verder. Vroeger wel, qua tijd dan...
IMG_5057 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

8. De afrit Culemborg heeft een gigantisch lange uitvoegstrook, misschien wel 1 kilometer.
IMG_5058 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

9. Nog steeds afrit Culemborg.
IMG_5059 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

10. Afstanden.
IMG_5060 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

11. Dit is een wildbrug meen ik. 
IMG_5061 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

12. Wat een ruimte. De A2 is echt onherkenbaar veranderd.
IMG_5062 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

13. Afrit Beesd. Weer een giga uitvoegstrook.
IMG_5063 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

14. Veel meer dan Beesd valt er desondanks niet te melden...
IMG_5064 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

15. Dit was vroeger 2 rijstroken zonder vluchtstrook... Nu 4 rijstroken, een weefstrook én een vluchtstrook.
IMG_5065 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

16. Én je mag hier 120 km/h. 
IMG_5066 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

17. Mega geluidsscherm. Toch denk ik dat het verkeer stiller is dan voor de verbreding. Dit soort 2L ZOAB helpt enorm daarbij.
IMG_5067 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

18. Aankondiging KP Deil en afrit Geldermalsen.
IMG_5068 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

19. 
IMG_5069 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

20. Voor de liefhebbers: McDonalds.
IMG_5070 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

21. 5 rijstroken. Het kan niet op hier.
IMG_5072 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

22. NBA
IMG_5073 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

23. E-nummers prominent op de borden (ik ben daar niet zo'n fan van. Bovendien is de A15 een oost-westsnelweg, maar de E31 een noord-zuidnummer)
IMG_5075 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

24. 2x3 doorgaande rijstroken in knooppunt Deil.
IMG_5076 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

25. De nieuwe fly-over voor verkeer van Utrecht naar Tiel is nog in aanleg.
IMG_5077 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## CNGL

^^ What did you drunk? You messed up English and Dutch! :nuts:


----------



## Highwaycrazy

Reminiscent of the MKAD super highway with multiple lanes. Very well planned and designed.


----------



## Suburbanist

Surel said:


> I dont know what you mean with the right to develop your own plot... If you mean, that you cannot just simply decide to do on the land you own whatever you want, but that you have to first bargain with the authorities... well this is quite common in the whole Europe I guess.


Let me try to ellaborate a little more. I'm anot condoning Bangladesh-style development, just US-style.

Every civilized rich country has its own planning laws. However, in some countries a general regulation system applies, whereas you find detailed, specific but general norms and rules about what and how something can be built somewhere. So you have the laws, you check them, and provided you stay within its framework, you are relatively free to build as you want.

Netherlands and other countries, however, opt for an ex-post analysis of development projects. They also have a lot of general applicable laws, but decide to introduce lengthy, costly and, in my opinion, overstretched and excessive requirements for hearings, technical appraisals and evaluations and so on, to the point that a would-be developed can't just look at the law and plan a development in the dark to surprise the market and grab a good spot of land to especulate with construction activiy years later.


----------



## Surel

Suburbanist said:


> Let me try to ellaborate a little more. I'm anot condoning Bangladesh-style development, just US-style.
> 
> Every civilized rich country has its own planning laws. However, in some countries a general regulation system applies, whereas you find detailed, specific but general norms and rules about what and how something can be built somewhere. So you have the laws, you check them, and provided you stay within its framework, you are relatively free to build as you want.
> 
> Netherlands and other countries, however, opt for an ex-post analysis of development projects. They also have a lot of general applicable laws, but decide to introduce lengthy, costly and, in my opinion, overstretched and excessive requirements for hearings, technical appraisals and evaluations and so on, to the point that a would-be developed can't just look at the law and plan a development in the dark to surprise the market and grab a good spot of land to especulate with construction activiy years later.



As I said, quite common in Europe. It has several reasons, the most important one being the scarcity of land and more concern for the social space be it litterally or in the society(societel?) sense as well as bigger concern about something called public good.

Also once you take into account externalities, you would realise that these are also handled differently in the US and in Europe. In the US are mostly handled by the private fights at the court and the stronger takes it all... In Europe are mostly handled by those hearings and processes you mention. I dont want to jump into economic theory on externalities and transaction costs (Coase), but I must say, that based on it I prefer the European way.

The bangladesh example wasnt given just out of blue to compare rich and poor country. It was given, because both countries experience similar geographicall conditions. The approach that these two countries took towards the problem of laying in the deltas of huge rivers (yes I am aware that Ganga is bit different leage) has been different. What I want to point out is the simple fact, taht without carefull planning of the land use and setup, the crown of holland could be washed away one day... literally. I just remember about the story I heard about these tribes over Rhine living on the heapes of land in the mudd...the description of the NL by the Romans :O, thats the starting point here.

But I dont deny that these processes might be bit overdone... of course there are lots of parties interested in as costly process as possible...the rent seekers. In general however I cannot imagine that we could do the same thing here in Europe like they do it in america... "Develop", earn their share, let it rot and move few thousand yards away... the result... "suburbs developement".

To close it. I might be a bit ideological on one point anyway. I think that the ultimate concept of "owning" the land (earth) is more a joke than a reality. Yes we can own some rights with respect to the use of the certain area of the land given the sociaty allows us and respects these rights. Thats anyway the notion of any ownership or possesion. The only reson why it is possible to "own" the land is because it is possible to build a fence... same reason why it is not yet possible to own the air...:O.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Without the interference the Dutch made with mother nature since the 17th century, much of the Netherlands would consist of marshy swamps and large lakes, with a belt of dunes along the North Sea coast. We changed the course of major rivers, built tens of thousand of kilometers of dikes, control the water level from a small stream to a major river, control the water flow of rivers to the sea, we shortened our coast line by 650 kilometers using the Delta Works, which are considered one of the 7 modern wonders of the world, and have generally an extremely high level of control in all aspects of our environment.


----------



## mgk920

So then, basically, those Dutch Envirowackos are pretty much blowing a lot of hot air in that so precious little of Nederlands is as nature made it. Yes, Nederlands is a very 'green' place, but it is a very un-natural green. Those quaint, touristy windmills? They were built to power the pumps that kept that un-natural land dry.

What percentage of Nederlands' land area is below sea level?

Also, is it possible that we may, within our lifetimes, see the Dutch reclaim even more land from the sea?

Mike


----------



## Planen B

^^



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands said:


> The Netherlands is a geographically low-lying country, with about 20% of its area and 21% of its population located below sea level,[8] with 50% of its land lying less than one metre above sea level.[9]


At this time there's one big land reclamation project going on to expand the Port of Rotterdam called the "Tweede Maasvlakte", it's featured in the 10th episode of the 4th season of Build It Bigger from Discovery Science if you're interested. It's an area of about 2.000 hectares, of which 510 hectares of waterways/basins, so 1.490 hectares of land (14,9 sq. km/5,75 sq. mi).

I am not sure of the planning of any more of these projects in the near future for the whole of the country. I do know there's talks about building a new borough of Almere on even more reclaimed land in the future.


----------



## Suburbanist

mgk920 said:


> So then, basically, those Dutch Envirowackos are pretty much blowing a lot of hot air in that so precious little of Nederlands is as nature made it. Yes, Nederlands is a very 'green' place, but it is a very un-natural green. Those quaint, touristy windmills? They were built to power the pumps that kept that un-natural land dry.
> 
> What percentage of Nederlands' land area is below sea level?
> 
> Also, is it possible that we may, within our lifetimes, see the Dutch reclaim even more land from the sea?
> 
> Mike


Well, the coastline has been there since the last Ice Age, so the reclaimed land were the swamps, pet deposits and marshland mostly in the West and Northwest of the country.

Theoretically, it would be quite easy to reclaim land in the Markermeer (which was dammed for that purpose) and at the IJselmeer.

In the south, if the want, they could reclaim all the water bodies in Zeeland, though it would require extensive dike construction in the outlet left to drain the nearby rivers.


----------



## julesstoop

Planen B said:


> ^^
> 
> At this time there's one big land reclamation project going on to expand the Port of Rotterdam called the "Tweede Maasvlakte"...


Technically this is not reclamation, since this area isn't a part of the country that was lost to the sea in some flood. It's new land which has never before been part of the Netherlands as such.


----------



## Planen B

I know, I was struggling with that when writing my post, but it seems to be used in this way  See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_reclamation


----------



## SkyView

julesstoop said:


> Technically this is not reclamation, since this area isn't a part of the country that was lost to the sea in some flood. It's new land which has never before been part of the Netherlands as such.


Ever heard about Doggerland ? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland


----------



## ChrisZwolle

If I'm correct, the term "reclaiming" does not refer to lands once lost to the sea only, but to any new lands claimed from the sea, lakes or rivers.


----------



## Slagathor

Well done, everyone. Finally a foreigner shows some interest in our history and you've scared him away by all this preposterous nitpicking on the exact definition of 'reclamation'. 

Now we'll never see Mike again


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Just waitin' for the bridge.

Ketelbrug by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Fargo Wolf

I'm curious as to why an open grid steel deck isn't used on movable bridges, not only in the Netherlands, but Europe in general. :dunno: It would certainly cut down on the weight of the movable span.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Newly widened A2 between interchange Deil and interchange Everdingen, south of Utrecht. A map is shown in the video for reference.

It is possible to watch this video full-screen as it is recorded in Full HD.


----------



## peezet

Fargo Wolf said:


> I'm curious as to why an open grid steel deck isn't used on movable bridges, not only in the Netherlands, but Europe in general. :dunno: It would certainly cut down on the weight of the movable span.


Did you ever brake on a 'open grid steel span' ?
I think that's why it isn't used.


----------



## CNGL

ChrisZwolle said:


> Newly widened A2 between interchange Deil and interchange Everdingen, south of Utrecht. A map is shown in the video for reference.
> 
> It is possible to watch this video full-screen as it is recorded in Full HD.


Wow, superhighway A2 through Netherlands. I have to try that in some years if the sea has no flooded it before!
And now I have got a better computer so no 240p needed. Although it was there...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some pictures of the same section:

1. 

A2-13-10-2010-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

2.

A2-13-10-2010-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

3.

A2-13-10-2010-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

4.

A2-13-10-2010-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

5.

A2-13-10-2010-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

6.

A2-13-10-2010-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

7.

A2-13-10-2010-7 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

8.

A2-13-10-2010-8 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

9. Dit autootje reed bij knooppunt Eemnes nog voor me.

A2-13-10-2010-9 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

10. 

A2-13-10-2010-10 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

11.

A2-13-10-2010-11 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

12.

A2-13-10-2010-12 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

13.

A2-13-10-2010-13 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

14.

A2-13-10-2010-14 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

15.

A2-13-10-2010-15 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

16.

A2-13-10-2010-16 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

17.

A2-13-10-2010-17 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

18.

A2-13-10-2010-18 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

19.

A2-13-10-2010-19 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


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## CNGL

What says the sign at photo 16?


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## ChrisZwolle

"wear seatbelts - also in the back seats"

That doesn't apply to me though, as I don't have any back seats


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## ChrisZwolle

A render of the widening works of A4 currently in progress. Because the exit Hoofddorp will be relocated, they will build additional C/D lanes, to widen the whole thing from 10 to 14 lanes.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Amsterdam - Den Haag*

A fairly impressive project is the construction of exit 3a, Hoofddorp-Zuid, with a C/D system between 3a and 3 (Hoofddorp). Exit 3 will also be moved south, to connect to the current U/C realignment of the N201 highway, the busiest non-motorway in the Netherlands.

This means there will be 14 lanes near Hoofddorp. Further plans foresee a complete C/D system between interchange Burgerveen (A44) and interchange De Hoek (A5), going from 10 to 14 lanes over 8 kilometers. This ultra-wide rural motorway will substitute older plans for more motorways in the region that never came into fruition, like A22 between Haarlem and Leiden and A3 from Amsterdam to Gouda. Calling off these plans doesn't mean the traffic wouldn't be there. The current rural volumes are 180.000 vehicles per day, and are forecast to grow to 250.000 vehicles per day in 2020, mainly due to the ever-expanding activity in and around Schiphol Airport, and the continuous expansion of the city of Hoofddorp.










A render of the widening works of A4 currently in progress. Because the exit Hoofddorp will be relocated, they will build additional C/D lanes, to widen the whole thing from 10 to 14 lanes.


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## ChrisZwolle

There are also plans for a new tunnel under the Maas River in the Port of Rotterdam area. The current westernmost fixed link is the Benelux Tunnel, almost 30 kilometers inland. The area is extremely industrialized with the largest industrial area in Europe. Port expansions require additional routes under the Maas River, to connect A15 with A20 west of Rotterdam.

Currently, there are two options, the Blankenberg Tunnel, not far west of the Benelux Tunnel, and the Oranje Tunnel, further west. Opponents of these tunnel fear it would create another motorway south of Den Haag, namely the A54 from Delft to the Oranje Tunnel. Quite frankly, the A54 is badly needed, but the area is completely build-up with greenhouses. 

There is currently no funding available for either tunnel, but the port of Rotterdam announced they are willing to take risk in a PPP construction. 

Locations:









A54:


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## Highwaycrazy

ChrisZwolle said:


> *A4 Amsterdam - Den Haag*



There's no left shoulder lane?


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## Suburbanist

*Alarming news - € 2,5 bln. cut from transport infrastructure building budget*

*New government’s traffic jam-busting plans hit by gas sales plan*

The new government’s plans to build new roads and invest more money in the railways are in doubt because of a potential lack of money, the Telegraaf reports on Monday, quoting sources in The Hague.
For years, major spending on the infrastructure has been funded by natural gas sales via a special budget known as the FES fund.

But the new government agreement states that the money held by the FES fund is to go directly to the treasury instead. That means effectively up to €3bn a year will be cut from transport ministry spending, the paper says.

The government agreement sets aside an extra €500m for spending on the roads but insiders told the paper that will not last long.

‘Combating congestion will grind to a halt,’ said Labour MP Diederik Samsom.


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## ChrisZwolle

Mr. Samsom himself is one of the reasons we have so many traffic jams. His stance is generally anti-roads.


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## 909

Indeed, I am very skeptical about an article which is based on "some sources and insiders in The Hague" and used by Mr.Green Mr.Samson to criticize the new government agreement.


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## Palance

Some pictures of the A2, near Eindhoven and the A58 till Tilburg

Album: http://www.xs4all.nl/~egavic/ASN/19-10-10/A2-A58/A2-A58/album/index.html

Some pictures from that album:


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## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Eindhoven - Valkenswaard*

The A2 was widened in a record 69 days from 2 to 3 lanes between interchange Leenderheide and Valkenswaard (6 km). These works were carried out to prevent traffic jams on A2 to get back on the newly widened A2/A67 around Eindhoven. The 3 lanes will be available from October 24th. The works started on August 16th. 

A similar project is being carried out on A58 between interchange Batadorp and Oirschot.


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## ChrisZwolle

Newly widened A2 Eindhoven - Valkenswaard:


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## zlobna raca

That was pretty fast. Why is it widened only on one side? Netherlands has a lot of money for infrastructure, it seems.


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## ChrisZwolle

The only purpose of this three-lane section is to prevent traffic congestion on the Randweg Eindhoven (bypass of Eindhoven). Ideally, the A2 would be widened to 2x3 lanes until Weert.


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## ChrisZwolle

Some history;

In 1942, construction of the A12 between Utrecht and the German border commenced. This was seen as an important route by the German high command, and was one of the few major road projects that continued in 1942 in Europe. It was heavily bombed by the Allied Air Force during World War II. Works were 50% completed in 1943, but was halted between the IJssel River and Zevenaar. 

Near Arnhem, the Velperbroek traffic circle opened in 1961. A12 traffic had to use the traffic circle to continue east. In 1964, the second IJssel Bridge was opened to traffic, and the A12 was more or less a continuous motorway from The Hague to the German border. However, the A12 fly-over over the traffic circle didn't open until late 1986. A third IJssel River Bridge was opened around 1990, carrying 8 lanes of traffic, out of which 4 are through lanes. 

Here's an aerial view of the Velperbroek Interchange as it is today. The hill on the top-left corner used to be a landfill. East is the upper side of this picture.


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## Spookvlieger

^^ I didn't knew that The Netherlands still had this type of crossings, I thought only Belgium had the last one remaining...But it isn't exactualy like the Lummen interchange is it?


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## ChrisZwolle

Traffic circles (basically giant roundabouts, often controlled with traffic signals) used to be a popular way in the 1950's and 1960's to connect motorways and major roads.

Some of them, like interchange Oudenrijn, interchange Deil, interchange Heerenveen and interchange Hoevelaken, have been converted to cloverleafs or other interchange forms decades ago, but some still exist.

Here's an overview:

Interchange Joure: A6-A7 - most substandard motorway-to-motorway interchange in the country.









Interchange Leenderheide: A2-A67 - recently got a new bypass for A2 traffic. Local traffic still has to follow the traffic circle.









Interchange Velperbroek: A12-A348-N325. The A12 is the only free-flowing connection. A348 and N325 terminate here.









Exit Zwolle-Zuid: A28-N331-N337. The most important motorway exit in Zwolle.









Exit Utrecht-Hoograven: A12-local roads. Probably the busiest traffic circle in the Netherlands.









Interchange Rottepolderplein: A9-A200. The only example of a motorway-to-motorway roundabout interchange where both motorways are free-flowing. Common in the United Kingdom.









There are a few in the Rotterdam area as well.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Aquaducts!*

The Netherlands is also known for its aquaduct or aqueducts, roads that run underneath water bodies. They are not the same as tunnels, which may also run underneath rivers or water bodies.

A12: Gouwe Aquaduct, opened 1981. 154.000 vehicles per day. Busiest in the Netherlands.









A20: Cortlandt Aquaduct, opened 1984. 99.000 vehicles per day. One of the smallest in NL.









A4: Gaag Aquaduct, opened 1999. 27.000 vehicles per day. Prepared for 6 lanes.









A4: Ringvaart Aquaduct, opened 1961. 107.000 vehicles per day. A widening with a second aquaduct is almost completed.









Second Ringvaart Aquaduct, opened 2010:

A4-11-8-2010-8 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

N302: Aquaduct Veluwemeer. 28.000 vehicles per day, opened 2002.









N302: Naviduct Enkhuizen, opened 2003.











The Friesland province is especially full of aquaducts, due to the large number of lakes, rivers and canals which see a lot of recreational shipping in the summer.

N354: Jeltesleat Akwadukt, opened 2007

IMG_1034 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

N7: Geau Akwadukt, opened 2008









N924: Ie-Akwadukt, opened 2007









N31: Langdeel Aquaduct, opened 2008









A32: Leppa-akwadukt, opened 1996









A32: Aquaduct Mid-Fryslân, opened 1993









:cheers:


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## pilspaus

I still think they shoul;d demolish the old Ringvaart Aquaduct and build a new one that is propperly prepared for more then 3 lanes, like 5 orso like the new one, and looks better to


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## ChrisZwolle

Yes, the new aquaduct has space for 5 lanes - conform other structures on A4 between Amsterdam and The Hague (like the new Oude Rijn aquaduct and the HSL underpass, which all have space for 2x5 lanes). The old aquaduct will be retrofitted with 3 lanes, divided into 2+1 lanes. It has been reported they will complete these works by next weekend, effectively eliminating one of the worst bottlenecks in western Netherlands.

It will take until 2014 though, until the 2 new aquaducts near Leiden (Oude Rijn aquaduct) are completed. The first one will be in operation by 2012, temporarily operating in both directions while the old drawbridge is demolished and the second aquaduct is completed, thus full 2x3 capacity will be in operation by 2014.

It will be relatively easily possible to widen the A4 to 2x5 lanes from Amsterdam to The Hague. The only problem is that you need to build a new Ringvaart Aquaduct (the old one from 1961 has 2x2 lanes with pillars in the median which cannot be removed).


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## Spookvlieger

ChrisZwolle said:


> Traffic circles (basically giant roundabouts, often controlled with traffic signals) used to be a popular way in the 1950's and 1960's to connect motorways and major roads.
> 
> Some of them, like interchange Oudenrijn, interchange Deil, interchange Heerenveen and interchange Hoevelaken, have been converted to cloverleafs or other interchange forms decades ago, but some still exist.
> 
> Here's an overview:


Thanks Chris


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## Tom 958

Is this a metal center barrier in the shape of a concrete one?


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## ChrisZwolle

That's correct. They're mostly used as temporary barriers during roadworks though.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A58 Vlake Tunnel*

Major troubles arose on the A58 motorway between Bergen op Zoom and Vlissingen in the Zeeland province. The Vlake Tunnel, which runs under the Canal through Zuid-Beveland, has been closed indefinitely because pavement came up by 15 centimeters in both tubes. Rijkswaterstaat surveyed the tunnel this night, initially counting on a brief closure, but were shocked by the current conditions of the tunnel. The media reports the tunnel could be closed for months.

Traffic is diverted via the N289 provincial highway, which has a drawbridge. The Vlake Tunnel handles 43.000 vehicles per day and opened in 1975. The tunnel was renovated in early 2010.

Vlake Tunnel:


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## peezet

A couple of years ago the groundwater leaked at the same spot. I think that's the problem again.


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## ChrisZwolle

Rijkswaterstaat hasn't put any news on their website yet, but it has been confirmed they are now rebuilding the interchanges overnight to handle the additional traffic load. Motorway traffic will be transferred onto the adjacent N289 highway, which is a two-lane road with a drawbridge. 

This means there is serious trouble with the tunnel, otherwise they wouldn't take such drastic measures like reconstructing the interchanges overnight.










temporary exit









temporary entrance


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## ChrisZwolle

They have put huge concrete blocks on the tunnel segment as counterweight.


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## Slagathor

That's just creepy...

At least the Vlake tunnel is only a few 100 meters long and traffic can be relatively easily rerouted. Imagine if it was the Westerscheldetunnel.


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## Suburbanist

^^ Fortunately this appears to have nothing to do with the ceiling. Imagine the mere perspective of the tunnel breaching up and flooding everything nearby.


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## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> Rijkswaterstaat hasn't put any news on their website yet, but it has been confirmed they are now rebuilding the interchanges overnight to handle the additional traffic load. Motorway traffic will be transferred onto the adjacent N289 highway, which is a two-lane road with a drawbridge.



How do they get the approvels for such a thing? Is the land also in the ownership of Rijkswaterstaat? What are in fact the provisions in an emergency situation like this?


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## ArthurK

^^ Yes, the land is already owned by the State. The temporary roads are within the existing right-of-way of the highway, so it's no problem to build them overnight.

But if there is somewhere an emergency on private land which need immediate reaction, the government can just do whatever is needed. The landowners will of course be compensated afterwards for damage and loss of income.

For example, when densely populated areas are threatened by flooding from rivers, the government can flood agricultural land in order to save the cities. This happened in 1998 when lower parts of my city were about to flood and they sacrificed some large rural polders to lower the waterlevel, which turned out to be succesful. Since then, the government has designated areas which can be flooded in case of an emergency when all regular buffers are full. Landowners will be compensated afterwards. But I'm getting off-topic now...


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## Surel

^^ I got it in the case of flooding. However it is interesting in a "just" corked motorway.

I see, the land was no problem. But I mean, there are many approvels for any road construction. These ramps were not planned, projected, and approved for that place. Therefore I wonder is there some provisional protocol that allows them to change the project owernight? How long could they keep them for example? Or did they undergo some fast approvel? This is some quick action and doesnt remind me of the moaning on the time consuming processing issues that I hear here .


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## ArthurK

The Dutch system of public law aims to protect the citizens against decisions made by the governments. The _Algemene wet bestuursrecht_ (= General Administrative Law Act) requires the governments to prepare the decision carefully, to weight the interests of all parties involved in a balanced way and to motivate the decision thoroughly. Affected citizens, companies and non-profit organisations can appeal to almost any decision of the government. When the court revokes the decision, the government has to make a new decision, which could be appealed again, and so on.

There are many decisions needed before the construction of a road can start and is very hard to thoroughly motivate really _everything_. Therefore, it takes many years before construction of an infrastructural project can begin.

I don't know the details of this specific project, but I think there is NO _formal_ decision taken to build temporary roads overnight. Of course, they decided to do that, but I think it's not a _decision as stated in the law_; it's just a _factual act_ of the road authority. Because it's not based on a decision, no "careful preparations" and "thoroughly motivations" were required.

Anyone whose rights (or interests) are violated by this act, can go to court and demand those violations to be ceased and, if applicable, compensation for any damage. That's always possible, regardless those violations are commited by an individual, a company or a government agency.


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## Surel

I see. I would deduce that they may act like this only when certain conditions are met, isn't it so? 

Otherwise it would be pretty much possible to start the road constructions, reconstruction, realigment etc. without that decision making process pretty much allways. The transaction costs of appealing and proving that your rights were violated, proving the damage etc. could be prohibitivly high and prevent people from actually appealing. Moroever anyway it might show as cheaper to solve the problems in this way for the state since many times certain things would be irrevesible when actually built but impossible to make an agreement on ex ante at all. Therefore the ex ante process exists.


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## ArthurK

^^ Yes, it's an exceptional situation here: there is an immediate need for a solution so therefore the road authority can justify this factual act.

They won't do this in regular cases where reconstructions or realignments etc are needed. I doubt the road authority has the legal competence to start such works without a formal decision of the Ministry of Infrastructure.

But indeed, if a government does something irreversible what afterwards appears to be illegal, then we have a problem. It can't be undone, so a (high) compensation for those who are affected is the only thing left. If that government knew it was illegal, then it's abuse of power. Voters don't like that. :lol:

I know one case where the Dutch Ministry of Defense wanted to cut down a part of a forest which is just in front of the runway of NATO Air base Geilenkirchen, the AWACS-Air base which is located just on the German side of the border. There was a lot of protests by environmental groups. The local government strongly opposed the cutting and made a zoning plan for that forest in which cutting trees became forbidden. They were overruled by the central government (very rare in Dutch politics), a decision which became revoked by Council of State (the highest administrative law court). But by then all trees were already gone.


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## Surel

Why am I so interested? Well, because I think that exactly this processing of public construction is the most crucial point in any infrastructure construction. Only if the right process rules are set we can come to the most efficient and beneficiary solutions. There are many aspects of this and one of them is the responsibility.

In this case I wondered, if there is indeed a law or decree (_wet_) enumerating what conditions are to be met to allow Rijkswaterstaat to skip this process. E.g. that huge economical loss has to be preneted, or there is big danger to the people and property... etc. Otherwise it would depend only on the guts of some brave bureaucrat. I guess, when someone goes beyonde someone's competences there are not only legal charges against the institutions possible but also criminal charges against a person that made the decisions.

BTW, did they had to plant some trees back ?


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## ChrisZwolle

Shoulder running will be in operation from today on the A9 in southeastern Amsterdam, between interchanges Holendrecht (A2) and Diemen (A1). This section has 2x2 permanent lanes and carries up to 90.000 vehicles per day. The shoulders will be opened to traffic if traffic volumes exceed 3.000 vehicles per hour per direction. Shoulder running will be operational in both directions.

This is a temporary solution, because the A9 will be widened to 10 lanes with a tunnel between 2012 and 2020. (no exact timelime available yet).


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## Timon91

A1 Muiden-Hengelo

Quite a long series of pictures of the A1 between Muiden and Hengelo. 

The complete set (117 pictures) can be found here. If you don't have time or if you just don't feel like looking at 117 pictures I'd recommend to start here, as I had a lot of contralight in the beginning of the trip.

Note: these pictures have been taken in august so the situation might have changed at a few locations since then!

A map to clear things out:









Thanks for watching!


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## ChrisZwolle

Shoulder running in operation at 1 pm.

A1 motorway near Hoevelaken.

You can see the benefits, all trucks to the right, and 2 lanes for other traffic. 2x3 is still needed though, this shoulder is opened to traffic almost the entire day.


A1 shoulder running Hoevelaken by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


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## Pannyers

^^ There's enough space for a 2x3 highway at this point.


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## Pannyers

*De Vlake Tunnel*

Tomorrow they will open the shoulders of the highway in two directions (today one was already open).
They couldn't say how long the rest of the tunnel will be closet, maybe a week... or some months.


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## ChrisZwolle

Some news from today:

*A9 Haarlem (Velsen - Raasdorp + Badhoevedorp - Raasdorp)*
All appeals against the construction of shoulder running on the A9 have been rejected by the council of state. The construction had already commenced, and shoulder running can be opened as planned in April 2011. The section between interchanges Velsen and Raasdorp will receive shoulder running in both directions, the section between interchanges Badhoevedorp and Raasdorp only in the northbound direction.

*N31 Leeuwarden*
All appeals (almost 30 separate topics) have been rejected by the council of state. The N31 Leeuwarden bypass can proceed as planned; a 2x2 expressway with grade-separated junctions. 

*A2 Utrecht - 's-Hertogenbosch (Oudenrijn - Everdingen)*
The minister has published the record of decision for the widening of the A2 between interchanges Oudenrijn and Everdingen (south of Utrecht) from 2x3 to 2x4 lanes. All documents can be found here


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## ChrisZwolle

Minister Schultz is going to find out if it is possible to convert some shoulder running to permanent lanes, according to media reports. It's unclear what she exactly means by that, I don't think it's a good idea to have no shoulder 24/7 on the motorways, but some left shoulders (de-facto 3rd lanes) could be opened 24/7 in my opinion. 

I'll post some pictures of left shoulder running later.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere (SAA)*

The SAA project is the largest motorway project undertaken in the Netherlands in at least the last few decades. A few years ago, it became clear there was no political will for a new A6-A9 connection, thus plans changed and they opted for a massive widening of existing motorways. In 2010 the design-record of decision has been taken, and a record of decision is expected in 2011 with road works commencing in 2012 and completion in 2018.

This is the scope of the project:









The most vital link is the A1 between interchanges Diemen and Muiderberg. It currently carries 190.000 vehicles per day. It has 2x3 lanes plus a reversible lane, which will be dualled until early 2011, hence 8 lanes. To cope with the astounding growth of the city of Almere (from 180.000 to 350.000 inhabitants), a large-scale expansion of the motorway network to the job locations (southern Amsterdam, Schiphol area) is necessary. 

The predicted 2022 traffic volume on the A1 motorway is 311.000 vehicles per day. In other words, around 370.000 people will use it on a daily basis. This is as much as 40% of the entire Dutch public transport. Only the growth of traffic on this corridor equals 15% of the entire Dutch public transport. It will become the busiest motorway in the Netherlands, and possibly Europe (tie with M-30 in Madrid).

*Section:* A1 interchange Watergraafsmeer (A10) - interchange Diemen (A9)

This section will be widened from 2x3 lanes to 2x4 lanes. There will be 10 lanes close to both interchanges.









*Section:* A1 interchange Diemen (A9) - interchange Muiderberg (A6)

This section will be widened from 2x3+2 lanes to 2x5+2 lanes plus 2 bus lanes, 14 lanes total. The drawbridge near Muiden will be replaced by a 14-lane aquaduct slightly south of the existing bridge, the widest aquaduct in the world. Some sections will feature 2x6 through lanes.









*Section:* A6 interchange Muiderberg (A1) - Almere-Buiten-Oost

This section will be widened from 2x3 / 2x2 lanes to an express-local setup, with basically 4x2 lanes near Almere, but up to 16 lanes closer to interchange Muiderberg. The existing Holland Bridge will be replaced by a new, 15-lane bridge, including 11 motorway lanes, 2 bus lanes and 2 non-motorway lanes for slow traffic. This bridge will become the widest in the Netherlands, surpassing the 12-lane Brienenoord Bridge in Rotterdam.









*Section:* A9 interchange Diemen (A1) - interchange Holendrecht (A2)

This section currently has 2x2 lanes and shoulder running during peak hours. Due to the expected growth on the A1-A9 corridor, interchange Diemen will be drastically realigned and Almere - Haarlem will become the through direction (A1 will run through a TOTSO). This section will be changed with a new tunnel, with 10 lanes, with a 5x2 setup (2 reversible lanes) in the tunnel, which will become 2x5 lanes approaching interchange Diemen.









*Section:* A9 interchange Badhoevedorp (A4) - interchange Holendrecht (A2)

This section currently has mostly 2x3 lanes, with 4 lanes per direction near interchanges. This section will see a modest upgrade with 2x4 lanes all the way, except approaching interchanges, where 2x5 or 2x6 lanes will be constructed. No exceptional constructions are needed here. 









*Section:* A10 interchange Watergraafsmeer (A1) - interchange Amstel (A2)

This section currently has 2x3 lanes, and will be modestly upgraded to 2x4 lanes. This section has a narrow right-of-way and passes under a section of the Watergraafsmeer classification yard, which means there is not much space.









*Related widenings:*

A1: Bussum - interchange Eemnes
This section has a very narrow ROW and currently features 2x2 lanes. Shoulder running will be implemented by early 2011.

A2: Amsterdam - Utrecht
This section has recently been widened to 2x5 lanes, but will not be finished near Utrecht until late 2012 due to severe tunnel technical installation problems.

A4: Schiphol - Amsterdam
This section is currently the busiest 2x3 motorway in the Netherlands with 190.000 vehicles per day. For now, shoulder running will be added.

A10: Amsterdam-South
This section currently has 2x3 lanes and is severely congested. As a short-term solution, shoulder running will be added between A2 and A4. There are plans to completely rebuild the area around the motorway, including putting all motorway and rail infrastructure underground with 4x3 lanes. This is very expensive and can only be realized in conjunction with real estate development, but is put on-hold due to the economic situation.


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## H123Laci

"A few years ago, it became clear there was no political will for a new A6-A9 connection"


whats the problem with it?


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## Surel

I got a practical question. Sometimes I make a trip from Almere to the Den Haag area, should I take the ring (A10) or A9 when passing Amsterdam. I have to go there in the morning, thus file is a rule, but lets say passing around Amsterdam around 9 a.m. return again in the spitz around 6 p.m..

Or do you think it is better to skip Amsterdam completaly and go through Hilversum and Utrecht? The last variant is to skip whole Flevoland, but then there are files around Zwolle  and it is longer route. So really hard choice .


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## -Pino-

@H123Laci, 
The lakes just South of the current A1-A6 interchange triggered the opposition. The proposed route would not really touch those lakes, but it would pass by near enough to have an (alleged) adverse impact on the area. A tunnel has briefly been under discussion, but that alternative never really took off. 

@Surel,
A10 is shorter in kilometers, but more likely to get jammed. The choice is simple to make: when you approach Knooppunt Diemen (outbound) or Knooppunt Badhoevedorp (inbound), you'll find information panels telling you the estimated driving time to Badhoevedorp (outbound) or Diemen (inbound) via the A9 route and via the A10 route. I'd just rely on that information and make your choice.


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## mappero

I can't find any reasonable explanation for this massive widened of A1 near Diemen. Maybe government should introduce tax free zone in Almere or Flevoland for bussines purpose. Locate all business facilities in Flevoland, open airport in Almere. Next change name Almere for Amsterdam. (I know, it's more fancy to have Amsterdam's address). 
It's ridiculous for all 350k Alemere's citizen commute everyday to Amsterdam. This unnecessary use of fuel and time. Also is not eco friendly. Then after ocean level increase this part of land will be cover by weather anyway...


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## DanielFigFoz

Is this a standard NL no parking sign?


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## mappero

This sign says: End of no parking zone for trucks and buses.
Zone's sign are like this across Europe (I mean mainland Europe)


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## DanielFigFoz

^^ What I mean is the (P) rather than (/)


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## aswnl

DanielFigFoz said:


> Is this a standard NL no parking sign?


No, it isn't.

Standard is the red/blue sign. (RVV E01)









However municipalities can apply an additional "APV" (Algemene Plaatselijke Verordening = General Local Regulation). In this case such a regulation is being communicated by non-RVV signs.


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## Suburbanist

^^ Exactly. Such signs exists to mark the end of "no parking zones for trucks and trailers" in Italy as well. The regular scheme (a "dimmed grayed" sign with a diagonal strip) wouldn't work because the no-parking regular sign already is a diagonal strip


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## Suburbanist

mappero said:


> I can't find any reasonable explanation for this massive widened of A1 near Diemen. Maybe government should introduce tax free zone in Almere or Flevoland for bussines purpose. Locate all business facilities in Flevoland, open airport in Almere. Next change name Almere for Amsterdam. (I know, it's more fancy to have Amsterdam's address).
> It's ridiculous for all 350k Alemere's citizen commute everyday to Amsterdam. This unnecessary use of fuel and time. Also is not eco friendly. Then after ocean level increase this part of land will be cover by weather anyway...


Aflustdijk will take care of that :cheers:

In any case, I think some satellite business centers will relocate to Lelystad and Almere - 10/20 years from now. Every major urban agglomeration has its heavily pendulous commuting cities. What happened, until now, is that the Randstad had major cities not entirely connected, but not entirely segregated too. Hence you had some balance between business and homes in Rotterdam-Den Haah-Leiden-Haarlem-Amsterdam axis. But the place keep growing, so it is sort of inevitable the overflow to new municipalities.


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## ChrisZwolle

Some facts about the spectacular traffic congestion-reduction on the A2 in North-Brabant province.

Overall, the Dutch traffic congestion increased slightly in 2010, despite the economic recession.

However, with the completions of major road expansion projects in early 2010, traffic congestion on A2 has overall been slashed by 84%. The numbers are even more spectacular for individual projects;

*A2 Zaltbommel*:
Number 1 traffic jam in the nation in 2009: 250.000 kilometer minutes. In 2010: 20.000 kilometer minutes = -92% congestion. This traffic jam disappears out of the top 50 traffic jams!

*A2 Den Bosch*:
210.000 kilometer minutes in 2009, only 10.000 kilometer minutes in 2010 = -96% congestion

*A2 Eindhoven*:
150.000 kilometer minutes in 2009, reduced to some 30.000 kilometer minutes in 2010 = -80% traffic congestion. The recently completed widenings to Valkenswaard and Oirschot (A2/A58) will further reduce congestion

Traffic congestion tripled on A2 Den Bosch - Eindhoven, though in absolute numbers it's only some 30.000 kmmin in 2010. This section will be widened to 2x3 by 2013. Congestion also increased on A58 and A67.


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## Coccodrillo

ChrisZwolle said:


> The predicted 2022 traffic volume on the A1 motorway is 311.000 vehicles per day. In other words, around 370.000 people will use it on a daily basis. This is as much as 40% of the entire Dutch public transport. Only the growth of traffic on this corridor equals 15% of the entire Dutch public transport. It will become the busiest motorway in the Netherlands, and possibly Europe (tie with M-30 in Madrid).


370.000 people a day...it's really strange that all of them have such different destinations not reachable by public transport :nuts:


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## Suburbanist

Coccodrillo said:


> 370.000 people a day...it's really strange that all of them have such different destinations not reachable by public transport :nuts:


Cut that number is half, as people travel in each direction daily.

There is already a good Almere-Amsterdam rail link. The problems are:

- Amsterdam Centraal is badly located except for tourism and will be replaced by Amsterdam Zuid as the main city station in 5 (?) years, when the North-South subway line will be completed. 

- People in Netherlands commute a lot to work, more than in other European countries. Because the whole Randstad is a distributed area, multi-polarized and multi-centric, it's rather common that each in a couple works at a different city.

- Dutch are thrift. Many don't want to spend 50% of their income just to live in a more expensive place close to work. "Hype" of a trendy neighborhood near a major employment center don't always catch up with workers. They'd rather have more space and bigger houses. Almere x Amsterdam is the extreme example of this: prices per m² in the same housing typology are 30-40% lower in Almere. In many cases, a family will live in a city that IS NOT the workplace of either parent, so both have to commute, usually one by train, other with more inconvenient route by car. 

Then, fortunately businesses in NL are not keen to locate themselves in ultrahigh skyscrapers, but many are dispersed. Though they are usually within the reach of a train station (major or minor), cars are usually faster nonetheless, if you account time it takes to go from home to the nearest train station, then change trains 2 or 3 times and so.


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## ChrisZwolle

The problem is most Amsterdam housing are rentals, and the left-overs are very upscale expensive housing. Much of the middle class of Amsterdam moved to places like Almere, Purmerend, Hoofddorp and Utrecht-Leidsche Rijn. Similar problems are in Rotterdam, and to a lesser degree in Den Haag and Utrecht.


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## ChrisZwolle

The map speaks for itself:


NL road projects 2009 - 2018 final PNG 8-bit by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


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## kosimodo

^^How about the N33?


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## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Utrecht - Den Haag*

Reports are coming in that the 4th plus lane on A12 between exits Woerden and Gouda has opened.

Route:









Current traffic condition: (17.40 hrs middle of rush hour) ALL CLEAR! :cheers:
Normally there was a 12 - 20 kilometer traffic jam on this section.


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## DanielFigFoz

aswnl said:


> No, it isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> However municipalities can apply an additional "APV" (Algemene Plaatselijke Verordening = General Local Regulation). In this case such a regulation is being communicated by non-RVV signs.





Suburbanist said:


> ^^ Exactly. Such signs exists to mark the end of "no parking zones for trucks and trailers" in Italy as well. The regular scheme (a "dimmed grayed" sign with a diagonal strip) wouldn't work because the no-parking regular sign already is a diagonal strip


Thanks! :cheers:


----------



## Suburbanist

*Cabinet divided over roads policy, transport ministry debate continues*

The two coalition parties are divided about* how to spend some €20bn the government has set aside for extra roads*, it emerged during the first day of debate on the transport ministry budget, Nos tv reports.

VVD transport minister Melanie Schultz van Haegen said last week she planned to focus investment on the ‘economically strong’ regions of Amsterdam-Utrecht, Rotterdam-The Hague and Eindhoven-Venlo.

But the CDA wants to spread funding nationwide.

*Regions
*
‘The cabinet should not simply invest in the economically-strongest regions,’’ said MP Sander De Rouwe during the debate. ‘The government must also look to other parts of the country.’

Labour, the left-wing greens GroenLinks and ChristenUnie support the CDA’s position.

Schultz will reply to MPs later on Wednesday. The minister said earlier she plans to complete 800km of new motorway lanes by 2015.

*Tolls
*
The Telegraaf highlights VVD and PVV calls for the introduction of toll roads, pointing out that both parties were opposed to a kilometre tax during the election campaign and the previous cabinet period.

The VVD backs the building of a double-decker toll bridge to Almere in an effort to ease congestion. The PVV on Tuesday launched the idea of building a new A3 toll motorway through green belt land from Amsterdam to Rotterdam.

At the beginning of November, Schultz did not rule out building new toll roads. ‘Tolls can only be applied to special, extra roads,’ the minister said.

*Speed limits*

MPs were also critical of plans to put the speed limit up to 130 kph on some roads as soon as possible. Schultz has already said she will wait for safety and environmental reports before taking a decision.

The fundamentalist Christian party SGP says it supports an increase to 130 kph. ‘Or even 135 kph,’ MP Elbert Dijkgraaf said during the debate. 

=========
Source

I'd like to have such a problem. I'm quite happy priorities are being set straight with more money devoted to highways, which hauls more than 80% of intercity traffic, instead of spending too much in ProRail projects.


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## ChrisZwolle

CDA gets most of their votes from rural areas (a.k.a. "the region") while VVD gets a lot of their votes from commuters.


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## Surel

I have bit offtopic question. I need to buy new wintertires (in NL). I bought last year summer tires at www.autobandenmarkt.nl (delti.com) and I considered the price to be fair. Now as I search for the wintertires and at that site is it not really anymore great choice, nor prices. When in generall I compare the Dutch wintertires prices to the prices that I find on german or czech internet shops they are around 50 % overpriced in NL.

Do you know any competitive internet tires retail in NL? Or do you know any such German (international) internet retail that ships to The Netherlands? Thank you.


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## Pannyers

^^ reifen-schreiber.de
(it's a link from: winterreifen.de)



> Wohin liefern Sie?
> Wir liefern nach Deutschland und in EU-Länder. EU-Länder außer Österreich im Moment nur per Vorkasse.
> 
> Wieviel kostet der Versand?
> Der Versandpreis wird im Shop einen Schritt nach dem Warenkorb ausgewiesen. Die angegebenen Preise gelten für Lieferungen innerhalb des deutschen Festlands. Die Preise für EU-Länder finden Sie im Shop wenn Sie das entsprechende Land auswählen. Verpackungskosten entstehen nicht.


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## ChrisZwolle

According to the Dutch transportation association TLN, traffic congestion cost the Dutch trucking industry between € 900 and € 1200 million this year. In 2009, the most expensive traffic jam for trucking was the A2 between Amsterdam and Utrecht: € 19 million.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A27 Utrecht*

There is some very good news, some € 1.25 billion has been made available for the A12, A27 and N230 in Utrecht.

The A27 will be widened from 8 to 14 lanes, and will be partially covered. The N230 will be built with grade-separated junctions. The A12 will be widened from 10 to 12 lanes.

A27:


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## BigMike90

the only thing this government will be able to reach consensus on is more roads more roads more roads. On any other topic its going to be difficult :lol:


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## ChrisZwolle

It's more like "wider roads" than "more roads". As far as I know, the new government has not initiated one single kilometer of new motorway.


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## BigMike90

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's more like "wider roads" than "more roads". As far as I know, the new government has not initiated one single kilometer of new motorway.


thats just how you explain more roads, widening means more roads in my book. Anyway you get my point :lol:


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## Suburbanist

^^ Building more roads in congested areas is a quick way to improve quality of life of its residents, particularly in a country like Netherlands where more than 60% of its adult population uses the car on a daily basis!


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## julesstoop

True, but it has mostly turned out to be only a short-term solution.


----------



## Des

julesstoop said:


> True, but it has mostly turned out to be only a short-term solution.


No, a lot of the recent widening projects will help for decades. But I agree that apart from just widening roads we should also invest in better public transport and stimulate people to live closer to their job or companies to support employees with flex-working and alternative ways of transport.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> companies to support employees with flex-working


I'm wondering what kind of working times you have in mind to avoid traffic jams... Maybe 11 - 19 hrs? I doubt if many people actually want to work outside the 8 - 17 period. The rush hour is already pretty long in the Netherlands, you have to get up real early to avoid it, or get home really late... 

The long term changes are population decline, aging of population and a different spatial planning. But then again, many road projects we have now are 20 years overdue. A major problem is to make an accurate traffic estimate. For example, some road sections have been filled to capacity for the last 20 years. This means the actual road demand may be much higher than anticipated. They grossly undercalculated this when they constructed the M25 around London in the 70's and 80's. 

Not only do you have to consider the traffic growth for the next 10 - 20 years, but also the demand that already exists, but takes alternate routes or hours. Until recently, procedural time for road projects was 14 years on average. This means that once a project is completed, it was suited for a traffic problem 20 years ago. That is also why a simple widening of 1 extra won't do in some situations.


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## Surel

Well I think you have to first consider change of the conception of the transportation in general. Since this should be the starting point. When the first motorways came the concept was also completaly new but they came because the then present system did not anymore suffice.


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## ArthurK

ChrisZwolle said:


> I'm wondering what kind of working times you have in mind to avoid traffic jams... Maybe 11 - 19 hrs?


That would fit me! 

But flex-working is not only about shifting working _hours_. It's also about working _places_. Many activities do _not_ necessarilly have to take place in the office, but can be done at home. This makes it easier to combine a professional and a family life. We call this "The New Working" (_Het nieuwe werken_) and it's a very popular topic to talk about at transportation congresses. :speech: :blahblah:

By the way, I think the government can do more on reducing the transportation needs for their civil servants. For example, I was temporary working at an agency of the central government last year. It surprised me that many of the employees worked 2 days/week in Utrecht and 3 days/week Groningen, which is a distance of 200 km. The office in Utrecht was hard to reach by public transport, thus encouraging car travel. I wondered if anyone thought about that kind of issues when they planned the organization this way...


----------



## Suburbanist

Des said:


> stimulate people to live closer to their job or companies to support employees with flex-working and alternative ways of transport.


This is not that simple as it seems. For the better and for the worse, Netherlands is a multicentric country. People change jobs often nowadays, which is a good thing in a certain way, and they don't restrict their job-searching only to their own towns. Many couples have each partner working in one city, sometimes they live in a city that is neither the workplace of any of them, but somewhere cheaper and less crowded in the middle (think of the cities along A2 between Utrecht and Den Bosch, for instance, and the number of people living there and working in Utrecht, Gouda, Eindhoven, Oss and even Rotterdam).

Hence, the idea of moving people close to their workplace is just not feasible with the workforce mobility we now observe. Indeed, this is a very advantage of Netherlands. It would be valid in a day and age of massive assembly lines factories where people worked their entire lives, but not anymore.



ArthurK said:


> T
> But flex-working is not only about shifting working _hours_. It's also about working _places_. Many activities do _not_ necessarilly have to take place in the office, but can be done at home. This makes it easier to combine a professional and a family life. We call this "The New Working" (_Het nieuwe werken_) and it's a very popular topic to talk about at transportation congresses.


I guess this is some transportation planners overreacting beyond their science field borders. There is extensive literature on Human Resources science that evaluate the importance of face-to-face interaction, and so. _Some_ telecommuting/remote working will is already happening, but it is just an utopia to think that every office job could be displaced to employees' homes. It will not happen, for a variety of reasons. Moreover, not everyone wants or is more productive while working from home.

So, when a transportation planner oversteps her/his boundaries and starts putting these theses as common sense, I balk away. They should be concerned to fit and provide the infrastructure needed by the commuting patterns of a country, not trying to promote workplace engineering to reduce the need of roads, airports and railways as their primary goal.



> By the way, I think the government can do more on reducing the transportation needs for their civil servants. For example, I was temporary working at an agency of the central government last year. It surprised me that many of the employees worked 2 days/week in Utrecht and 3 days/week Groningen, which is a distance of 200 km. The office in Utrecht was hard to reach by public transport, thus encouraging car travel. I wondered if anyone thought about that kind of issues when they planned the organization this way...


Transportation needs of a company is only one among many factors it considers when choosing a location. Only logistic firms will always take transportation (cargo) accessibility as their number one factor on those decisions. Locations out of reach of public transport are usually cheaper, and allows for expansion when needed. If a government agency is short on money, the decision could well be build/rent cheaper but spacious building on the outskirts or cramping everyone in undersized floors near an office building nearby a NS train station.


----------



## Des

ArthurK said:


> That would fit me!
> 
> But flex-working is not only about shifting working _hours_. It's also about working _places_. Many activities do _not_ necessarilly have to take place in the office, but can be done at home. This makes it easier to combine a professional and a family life. We call this "The New Working" (_Het nieuwe werken_) and it's a very popular topic to talk about at transportation congresses. :speech: :blahblah:


Exactly, that is what I meant. It would help if people can work a few hours a day at home and go to the office a few hours later or go home a few hours earlier. Maybe they can even work one day a week at home instead of at the office. 

If I look at my friends for a lot of them it would be easily possible but it would only require a change of company mentality. 

@Suburbanist: I know it's tough to make people live close to their jobs but it's ridiculous that cities like Almere, Culemborg, Purmerend etc grow at the rates they do while they rely on available jobs in other cities. We should shift from suburban expansion to urban expansion and allow more people to live closer to job centers and high quality transport connections. A lot of the traffic jams are caused by the lack of good public transport connections from the suburban towns to where people work.


----------



## Suburbanist

Des said:


> @Suburbanist: I know it's tough to make people live close to their jobs but it's ridiculous that cities like Almere, Culemborg, Purmerend etc grow at the rates they do while they rely on available jobs in other cities. We should shift from suburban expansion to urban expansion and allow more people to live closer to job centers and high quality transport connections. A lot of the traffic jams are caused by the lack of good public transport connections from the suburban towns to where people work.


A house in Almere, measured as buying price/m², costs less than 1/3 of the prices in inner Amsterdam, and 1/2 that of houses near - for instance - the Zuidas.

Culemborg is waaay cheaper than Utrecht also! Both Almere and Culemborg have train stations! The question is that workplaces are not near train station and, even when they were, many times it is faster to go by car despite traffic jams. 

Let me give you another example: I live very near Tilburg West NS (from next weekend, Tilburg Universiteit). Suppose I'm going to a major office building near the Zuidas, which is very close to Amsterdam Zuid NS. It takes 1h28 most of the times. By car, without congestion, it will take me 1h30.

However, add _any_ other leg to that journey (suppose I didn't live 5-min walking from train station, but - say - in Goirle, or Gilze, or other village nearby) and car becomes more competitive, because from Gilze I'd not have to take a 25-min bus to Tilburg NS, making the total train trip 25 min + 88 min + app. 15 min bus-train connecting waiting time = 127 min

At my workplace (an university), it is very common to have, for demographic reasons (most employees there are well-educated, earn reasonable wages and have working spouses), couples in which each works at a different university. So what should a couple where one works at UvT and other at Erasmus University in Rotterdam do? They live in Breda or other cheaper place near Dordrecht and each one commutes one way! The most extreme "middle-point" commuting I know personally is a couple in which one works here, the other in Zwolle at a technical college and they live in a dorp between Arnhem and Wageningen. 

Going out of personal examples, which are never good for generalizations anyway, the fact is: Netherlands have the most dense rail network measured as km/population/area in Europe. Yet, in many cases, even with congestion, it will be FASTER to sit idle in a traffic jam for 10, 20, 30 minutes each day each way than take a combination of bus/tram + train + train + bus/tram, for instance.

Also, many companies cannot afford the high rents that are charged in prime locations like those office complexes near Utrecht Centraal or in Downtown Rotterdam. A major international bank can afford it, a logistics company cannot. Training companies cannot. It is a well-established fact that concentrating offices in clusters of high-density areas drives up floor-area based prices, which puts a burden in many different business.

Then, you need to consider that Netherlands has a higher share of its workforce in industry, which is not a bad thing. You have this policy of setting industrial zones aside from cities, which is sensible. Nobody wants, I guess, to claim back the days in which cities like Hegelo, Heerlen and Arnhem were clogged with industrial plants within residential areas. I can't imagine how hell life in Tilburg would have been when all those textile mills were located near downtown or scattered around residential areas!

Even if industries are "non pollutant", e.g., they do not spill gases or liquids in high amounts nor they do major noise, who would like to go back to the days in which massive trucks collecting industrial waste and delivering raw materials navigated residential streets?

Even in the case of retailing, there are some activities that couldn't afford costs of being all located within reach of train stations or major population areas. IKEA, for instance, would never be so successful if they had to pay prime-location rents. Many outlets the thrift Dutch love can only sprawl themselves in cheaper land.

So, unless people fundamentally changed their minds about what is reasonable or not to travel on a daily basis (essentially, revolving backwards to the day of Netherlands as a poor country where survival, not comfort, was the main worry), there is only so much change in transportation patterns that transit can do. For instance, I doubt that in the inter-war period anyone would consider reasonable to live in Amsterdam and commute daily to work in Den Bosch. Today, it is common, it is a benefit that the Dutch reap for being and living in a developed and rich country.

Put the other way: today, only the very rich can afford private aircrafts to be used on a daily basis. Therefore, almost all folks assume that it would be impossible to commute from Amsterdam to Berlin on a daily basis. You just stick with it: if you live here and get a goof job offer in Berlin, you will have to move, and if you have reasons to be here, will need to speed a decent amount of money to travel each weekend at expense of your weekend rest. Maybe in 2080 they will have some form of mass-marketed battery-powered aircraft that will enable 1000km daily commutes. The idea might sound strange and wasteful as of today, but I bet that when the automobile was introduced, the very idea of living in the (by then) few very big cities in the West end and working in the East end 30km apart was not conceived. You'd grab a job at a major assembly line, steel mill or other massive industrial enterprise and stick to it for life, which would mean taking a house near the workplace and living a boring and unrewarding life where most of your neighbors would also be your co-workers.

Now how would be that good, to meet in the park with your baby stroll or in the local supermarket the same people you meet at your workplace... Life must have been way too boring back then.


----------



## Des

So what you basically say is that it doesn't matter that cities that rely entirely on job centers in other cities, or other areas of the country even, grow huge while putting enormous pressure on our infrastructure instead of shifting focus of development and growth to the established job centers? 



> A house in Almere, measured as buying price/m², costs less than 1/3 of the prices in inner Amsterdam, and 1/2 that of houses near - for instance - the Zuidas.


This is comparing apples with bananas. Almere can only be compared with 'de Westelijke Tuinsteden' or 'de Bijlmer', there you can find houses with the same price/m² and still live way closer to your job than in Almere. Not only that, you also live closer to shopping, entertainment and leisure. Putting less pressure on the infrastructure in the weekends and holidays as well. Additional expansion of yet established parts of Amsterdam / Rotterdam or most other big cities can easily be connected to high quality bus, tram, subway and train networks allowing people who live there multiple means of public transport to get to their job, shopping, entertainment and leisure. Compared to just one station that has no sufficient parking or fast and high frequency feeder lines in the suburban towns. 

I won't respond to the rest of your reply as it is highly inconsistent, contains a lot of assumptions and is completely irrelevant to what I said before.


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ It seems you hate the VINEX and new cities. I agree Almere needs more jobs, not Amsterdam needs more residents.

Moreover, much more of Dutch drive to work than take trains or buses anyway.

I'm not an expert in the Randstad, but as far as I know Almere doesn't have 10% of the bad reputation of the Biljmer area, arguably one of the worst in Netherlands as some say.

Where, in Amsterdam, can you find a house that is not detached but at least have a private garden, 130m², 3 bedrooms, for less than € 250.000?


----------



## aswnl

Des said:


> But I agree that apart from just widening roads we should also invest in better public transport and stimulate people to live closer to their job or companies to support employees with flex-working and alternative ways of transport.


I don't agree. Instead of pumping billions of euros in PT and forcing millions of people to live in narrow condos, it's far better (and in the long run also cheaper) to stimulate relocation of working areas to the places people live...


----------



## woutero

aswnl said:


> I don't agree. Instead of pumping billions of euros in PT and forcing millions of people to live in narrow condos, it's far better (and in the long run also cheaper) to stimulate relocation of working areas to the places people live...


Have you tried doing that for the place where you work? In my company (located in Rotterdam) we have people living in Rotterdam, Utrecht, Amsterdam, Haarlem and Rijswijk (The Hague). Where should we relocate our office?

I know that many people from Purmerend, Hoofddorp and Almere commute to Amsterdam, but if you relocate a company from Amsterdam to Almere, many people would have to commute to Almere from Purmerend and Hoofddorp, increasing travel times and making commuting by PT virtually impossible.

Companies are still located in cities, because they are still the most accessible places in a metropolitan region, despite congestion.

As Suburbanist already pointed out Dutch labour mobility is very high because we see the Randstad as one city. I think this is an economic strength, and we just need to keep investing in infrastructure, but also accept that attractive cities come with congestion.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Thus the answer lies in infrastructure. I know you can't completely wipe out congestion, but 90% of the Dutch congestion can be solved by road widenings. There's no need for a massive traffic jam in the polders. A2 was a good example of how to make things right. The widening from 4 to 8 lanes solved a daily 20 kilometer traffic jam with its bottleneck at Beesd of all places...


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## ChrisZwolle

An aquaduct segment for the A4 Oude Rijn aquaduct is being shipped into position:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Newly widened A28 Zwolle - Meppel. :cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

These 62 meter long concrete beams will be placed across the Haarlemmer Ringvaart canal in februari 2011. It will be part of the new A5 motorway, and are the longest concrete beams ever constructed in the Netherlands.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Leiden*

Minister Schultz officially opened the new 6-lane Ringvaart Aquaduct today.

She also stated the new Oude Rijn Aquaduct will be opened in 2012 with 6 lanes, 2 years earlier. This is possible because the new aquaduct will have two carriageways with space for 5 lanes + shoulder each, thus achieving a temporary 6-lane setup on one carriageway.

Cross section:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Woerden - Gouda*

Minister Schultz officially opened the new plus lanes on A12 Woerden - Gouda on 9 December. The A12 now possesses 4 lanes in the westbound direction.


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## ChrisZwolle

The graph below shows the increase of the annual road tax that provinces levy over the ownership of a car. Though the 1.9% increase in 2011 is marketed as "a very low raise", it's a bit weird that in the preceding years taxes increased 4 - 5 times the inflation.


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## ChrisZwolle

Visualization of the traffic jam top 50 of 2009:


----------



## woutero

ChrisZwolle said:


> The graph below shows the increase of the annual road tax that provinces levy over the ownership of a car. Though the 1.9% increase in 2011 is marketed as "a very low raise", it's a bit weird that in the preceding years taxes increased 4 - 5 times the inflation.


As you can see, this graph reflects the change in motor vehicle tax revenue. Not the increase of the tax rate. The revenue depends on the kinds of cars and the numbers of cars. This probably mostly reflects the growth in the number of registered cars.


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## ChrisZwolle

You're right. But I doubt that the number of registered vehicles (thus revenue) increases by 6 - 12% every year.


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## mappero

ChrisZwolle said:


> Newly widened A28 Zwolle - Meppel. :cheers:


Superb!
I spent there a lot of my time staying in jamshno: Last Friday, the third lane was still closed and generating huge traffic jams. I thought they will keep this lane closed until May 2011 (as written on the billboards, signs...)
What is the speed limit there? 100, 120 or 130 already?


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> You're right. But I doubt that the number of registered vehicles (thus revenue) increases by 6 - 12% every year.



I dont know about the tax. Is it in percentage of lump sum? If percantage, just the sheer volume of money spent on cars (and in previous years, the car market soared till 2008) would make that increase also possible in the revenue picture.

Anyway, I got a question. What cars are extempted from the "wegen belastingen". Recently I saw an test of Skoda fabia greenline which said that that this car comes road tax free thus saving substantial amount of money every year.

But now I am bit uncertain. I think I mix two things here. The tax you pay when you register new car and the annual tax over the roads.

Please could you tell me, are there cars that are extempted from both? Or what are the ways of reducing these taxes with car type in NL. THanks.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Minister Schultz signed a record of decision-equivalent* of the adaption of A2 and interchange Kerensheide near Geleen in Southern Limburg. The A2 will be widened to 3 lanes each way between Urmond and Kerensheide (1 km) and more importantly; a new 2-lane fly-over will be constructed to improve traffic flow towards Heerlen. Works should commence in 2011 and be completed in 2013.

render:









current:









* ROD-equivalent; this is a slightly altered (simplified) version of a full record of decision (Dutch: wegaanpassingsbesluit vs. tracébesluit).


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## ChrisZwolle

Surel said:


> I dont know about the tax. Is it in percentage of lump sum? If percantage, just the sheer volume of money spent on cars (and in previous years, the car market soared till 2008) would make that increase also possible in the revenue picture.
> 
> Anyway, I got a question. What cars are extempted from the "wegen belastingen". Recently I saw an test of Skoda fabia greenline which said that that this car comes road tax free thus saving substantial amount of money every year.
> 
> But now I am bit uncertain. I think I mix two things here. The tax you pay when you register new car and the annual tax over the roads.
> 
> Please could you tell me, are there cars that are extempted from both? Or what are the ways of reducing these taxes with car type in NL. THanks.


Wegenbelasting, officially called "motorrijtuigenbelasting" is an annual tax you pay for owning a car. It is dependent on fuel, weight and the province you live in. For a typical diesel car, this is around, or exceeds € 1200 per year. Petrol is cheaper, but LPG isn't. Some very clean vehicles are exempt from this tax, however, with more and more clean(er) vehicles, it remains to be seen how long this would remain in effect, as it will eventually lead to a loss of revenue for the government.

The tax you pay for buying a car is converted in the price of the car, and consists out of BPM (Belasting van personenauto's en motorrijwielen) and VAT. This was 40 + 19% in 2009, but things have changed in 2010, MRB increased and BPM was lowered in anticipation of the kilometer charge. With the cancelling of the km charge (at least for now), the BPM was decreased, making new cars less expensive to buy, but more expensive to own as MRB was increased as a compensation.


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## Surel

Thanks!!


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## Des

ChrisZwolle said:


> Visualization of the traffic jam top 50 of 2009:


This will look so different for 2011 

I think nr 1, 10, 13, 17, 22, 27, 29, 30, 31, 40 and 46 will be solved or drop out of the top 50 completely. And future plans to solve many other traffic jam hot spots are already there and are in development or carried out as we speak.

Hard to solve congestion includes the A10 ring around Amsterdam (5, 23 and 26) and the A20 near Rotterdam (6, 7, 12, 20 and 24).

Taking the current plans into account I expect the A9, A10, A15 and A27 to take more and higher spots on the traffic jam top 50 a lot over coming years.


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## ChrisZwolle

> Hard to solve congestion includes the A10 ring around Amsterdam (5, 23 and 26) and the A20 near Rotterdam (6, 7, 12, 20 and 24).


Things will improve though. The second Coen Tunnel is currently under construction which will increase the capacity from 4 to 8 lanes, and rush hour capacity will be increased from 2 to 6 lanes. This will improve #5 and #26 and also #34. To be completed 2012.

The Rotterdam area will be relieved by constructing the A13-A16. Though this may seem like a low-profile project (media-wise) it is in advanced stage of planning, an design-record of decision is expected in 2011, as well as a final record of decision. If everything goes well, construction could start in the second half of 2012, with a completion around the same time as A4 Delft - Schiedam. 

Another problem is the A16 on the east side of Amsterdam. It currently has 12 lanes and 230.000 vehicles per day. Due to the growth of the area, especially jobs and VINEX (Zuidplaspolder), traffic volumes will increase to 282.000 vehicles per day in 2020, so improvement is needed on this vital economic corridor. The main problem is the lack of alternate route, the whole road structure in greater Rotterdam is set up so that local traffic gets on the motorway as fast as possible. 

The problems in Rotterdam;
* A16 Brienenoord Bridge
* N210 Algera Bridge 
* lack of a second river crossing (probably A38)

On a daily basis; 

105.000 vehicles cross the Benelux Tunnel
75.000 vehicles cross the Maas Tunnel
70.000 passengers cross the Maas via subway
230.000 vehicles cross the Brienenoord Bridge
30.000 vehicles cross via other connections (Erasmus Bridge, Willems Bridge)

This means a grand total of;

440.000 vehicles crossing the Maas at Rotterdam per day.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15 Rotterdam*

Another step has been taken in one of the economically most important road widening projects. The widening of A15 has been contracted to the A-lanes A15 consortium, consisting of well-known companies John Laing, Ballast Nedam, Strabag and Strukton. 

The contract is worth € 1.5 billion and is a DFBM project. (Design, Finance, Build, Maintain). Preliminary construction should commence in early 2011, with full-scale road works starting in the second half of 2011. The whole project should be completed by 2015.

The widening of A15 is one of the most important projects, as the motorway carries up to 30.000 trucks per day, which will grow to 50.000 trucks per day in 2025. It also carries large numbers of commuter traffic. 

The A15 will be widened over 40 kilometers;

* Rozenburg - Spijkenisse: from 2x2 to 2x3 lanes using more space-efficient "plus lanes". The Thomassen Tunnel will also be widened to six lanes.
* Spijkenisse - Vaanplein: from 2x3 to 10 lanes, using a local-express setup. A new Botlek Bridge will be constructed, so traffic can use both the Botlek Tunnel and Botlek Bridge. This will improve traffic for both road and shipping. 

Map:


----------



## Marokino

Nederlandse snelwegen zijn de beste !


----------



## Palance

The A15, west of Vaanplein interchange today


----------



## mappero

A50 yesterday morning:


----------



## Elmo

^^ Filming while driving. Not really save, isn't it?!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's doable if you have an automatic transmission or drive in 5th gear constantly, but I prefer a fixed holder. Shooting a video requires constant care, while you can put a photo camera away when it gets too busy or dangerous.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

I was playing around on the compy this morning and came across some pics of "floating Infrastructure (picture showed a bridge)" that the Dutch govt was trialling a few years ago (2003). Does anyone know anything more about it? Is it still being used?


----------



## Fargo Wolf

From the "Project Monitor:

The Netherlands will have its first 100 m long experimental floating road by the end of this year. The pilot project will be built over a tributary of the River Maas. It will consist of linked up aluminium pontoons with a sealed road surface on top and filled with polystyrene foam to make them unsinkable. Passenger vehicles would be able to travel over the road at up to 80 km per hour. 

Full story here:

http://projectsmonitor.com/detailnews.asp?newsid=4510


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Doesn't ring a bell with me. I know the Swiss have done something like that on the Vierwaldstättersee (Lake Lucerne). 

*A7 Groningen*

Good news, procedures have started to upgrade the N7/A7 through the northern city of Groningen. It is currently a 2x2 expressway with a traffic light at the A28 motorway junction. At over 80.000 vehicles per day, it is the busiest traffic light intersection in the Netherlands. Construction could commence in late 2013 or early 2014.

Plan:

* local-express setup, 8 - 10 lanes.
* elevated motorway in west Groningen
* depressed and partially covered motorway through south Groningen
* elevated motorway in east Groningen
* full interchange with the N370 (Vrijheidsplein, western beltway)
* full interchange Julianaplein with A28 terminus (fly-over spaghetti)
* new exit at Bornholmstraat (east Groningen)


----------



## ArthurK

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ Doesn't ring a bell with me. I know the Swiss have done something like that on the Vierwaldstättersee (Lake Lucerne).


Do you really have no clue? The "floating road" pilot drew a lot of main stream media attention! It was part of the _Wegen naar de Toekomst_ ("Roads to the Future")-project of the Dutch Road Authority _Rijkswaterstaat_. The pilot was in Hedel near the Maas River in 2003 and was successful. I don't know whether they have used this concept since then.










I have an article about the pilot, but it's only in Dutch: here. An article on the website of _Bayards_, the company that designed the floating road here.









Photos: Bayards.


----------



## Spookvlieger

^^That bridge was even on NGC several years ago. A documentary about the Dutch and their floating homes.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Neat!!!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I can't remember it really... It don't think the concept has much future in the Netherlands where most waterways have intensive shipping.


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ The floating bridge solution was used in Italy as a temporary replacement for a bridge that collapsed on April 2009 upon River Po. A couple of days ago a new fixed bridge was opened and the floating bridge was dismantled.


----------



## Spookvlieger

ChrisZwolle said:


> I can't remember it really... It don't think the concept has much future in the Netherlands where most waterways have intensive shipping.





> Megastructures: North Sea Wall
> In 1953 a killer storm surge floods the Dutch coastline and claims over 1800 lives, inspiring the construction of the biggest, most sophisticated flood defenses on the planet. Costing billions of dollars, the systems of giant concrete and steel sea walls and retractable floodgates include one of the Seven Engineering Wonders of the Modern World. But with sea levels rising across the globe, the fierce North Sea and swelling rivers threaten to breach the defences again and wipe out the Netherlands, a quarter of which lies below sea-level. In response, the Dutch are designing floating houses and roads, even whole cities. Can technology once again ensure their survival?


Here it is, it's from NGC ABU DHABI because that's only movie I could find about it.
Fast forward to 5:10


----------



## mgk920

g.spinoza said:


> ^^ The floating bridge solution was used in Italy as a temporary replacement for a bridge that collapsed on April 2009 upon River Po. A couple of days ago a new fixed bridge was opened and the floating bridge was dismantled.


There are several permanent floating major motorway bridges in the Seattle, WA area, including on I-90.

Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A huge pack of snow is paralyzing traffic in the southeast. Some areas now have over 40 centimeters of snow, travel is difficult if not impossible. A2 near Eindhoven has been closed to all traffic because it is inaccessible. Nearly all road-based public transport has been shut down. Several non-motorways in Overijssel and Flevoland have been closed due to whiteout conditions that make travel impossible.


----------



## Spookvlieger

^^ Tell me about it...
In Wallonia there is +70cm of snow


----------



## Timon91

A2 Abcoude-Utrecht

Despite the bad conditions for road photography in winter I've still taken a few pics today. I've posted a few below, the complete set can be found here (31 pictures). 

1. Coming down the viaduct just after exit Vinkeveen.


A2 in The Netherlands by Timon91, on Flickr

2. From here on the left lane is closed (4 lanes left).


A2 in The Netherlands by Timon91, on Flickr

3. It's still quite busy. Most people are probably on their way to family or friends to celebrate Christmas (just like me ).


A2 in The Netherlands by Timon91, on Flickr

4. Just after exit Breukelen.


A2 in The Netherlands by Timon91, on Flickr

5. Maarssen.


A2 in The Netherlands by Timon91, on Flickr

6. Nothing to report now....


A2 in The Netherlands by Timon91, on Flickr

7. In future the parallel lanes exit here (2×5 becomes 2+3+3+2), but not yet.


A2 in The Netherlands by Timon91, on Flickr

8. Yellow markings.


A2 in The Netherlands by Timon91, on Flickr

9. Temporary sign in the new style of motorway signage.


A2 in The Netherlands by Timon91, on Flickr

10. The entrace of the landtunnel.


A2 in The Netherlands by Timon91, on Flickr

11. A short split because of a narrow railway viaduct. We cross the Utrecht-Gouda railway line here.


A2 in The Netherlands by Timon91, on Flickr

12. A quick look to the right. Integrated traffic lights for the landtunnel.


A2 in The Netherlands by Timon91, on Flickr

From here on the sun came through so there was way too much contralight. I had to stop making pics because of it. 

Still I'd like to show you this picture. Can it be any more Dutch?


Dutch landscape seen from the A27 by Timon91, on Flickr

(taken from the A27. The chimneys are from the Amercentrale - electric power plant)

On my way back I've shot a video, from Interchange Everdingen (A2/A27) to Abcoude. In the first 20 seconds I had some trouble with positioning the camera, which is why it shakes so much. Still I hope you like it 






By the way, the huge Christmas tree in the beginning is the 367 m high Gerbrandy Tower near Lopik which is AFAIK the biggest Christmas tree in the world :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*2010 Year overview:*

Motorway network increase: 0 km

Motorway projects completed (shoulder running not included, plus lanes included):

* A2: Amsterdam - Utrecht: widening from 6 to 10 lanes
* A2: Everdingen - Deil: widening from 4 to 8 lanes
* A2: Eindhoven: widening from 4/6 to 8/10 lanes
* A2: Eindhoven - Valkenswaard: widening from 4 to 5 lanes
* A4: Roelofarendsveen - Burgerveen: widening from 4 to 6 lanes
* A12: Zoetermeer - Gouda: widening from 4 to 6 lanes (plus lanes)
* A12 Woerden - Gouda: widening from 6 to 7 lanes (plus lane)
* A12 Woerden - Oudenrijn: widening from 7 to 8 lanes
* A12 Veenendaal - Ede: widening from 4 to 6 lanes (plus lanes)
* A28 Zwolle - Meppel: widening from 4/6 to 6/8 lanes (completed, not fully opened)
* A50 Heteren - Valburg: widening from 4 to 6 lanes
* A58 Eindhoven - Oirschot: widening from 4 to 5 lanes

Much more to come in the following years! :cheers:

The Dutch Motorwaynaissance! :lol:


----------



## Des

ChrisZwolle said:


> *2010 Year overview:*
> 
> Motorway network increase: 0 km
> 
> Motorway projects completed (shoulder running not included, plus lanes included):
> 
> * A2: Amsterdam - Utrecht: widening from 6 to 10 lanes
> * A2: Everdingen - Deil: widening from 4 to 8 lanes
> * A2: Eindhoven: widening from 4/6 to 8/10 lanes
> * A2: Eindhoven - Valkenswaard: widening from 4 to 5 lanes
> * A4: Roelofarendsveen - Burgerveen: widening from 4 to 6 lanes
> * A12: Zoetermeer - Gouda: widening from 4 to 6 lanes (plus lanes)
> * A12 Woerden - Gouda: widening from 6 to 7 lanes (plus lane)
> * A12 Woerden - Oudenrijn: widening from 7 to 8 lanes
> * A12 Veenendaal - Ede: widening from 4 to 6 lanes (plus lanes)
> * A28 Zwolle - Meppel: widening from 4/6 to 6/8 lanes (completed, not fully opened)
> * A50 Heteren - Valburg: widening from 4 to 6 lanes
> * A58 Eindhoven - Oirschot: widening from 4 to 5 lanes
> 
> Much more to come in the following years! :cheers:
> 
> The Dutch Motorwaynaissance! :lol:


:cheers:

Do you know which projects are scheduled to be completed in 2011?


----------



## Batavier

A few years ago I saw this road map of the Netherlands, which had all the primary roads coloured by the number of lanes, per section. It was a quite plain map, mostly white, no geographical features, which made it captivating. I can't seem to find it anymore, does anybody know if there is a recent version and where I can find it? Thanks


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ I've been thinking about making such a map. However, I need to improve my inkscape skills first. You don't want to make something like that with Paint.


----------



## Planen B

I'd be interested in making a map like that, current situation and future situation. Made some public transport maps in the past, this should be comparatively easy  I would just need a good reference somewhere where I can find the current/planned lane widths.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I'm working on a lane count map right now.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

First draft: let me know if there are any errors.

Note:
only permanent physical lanes are included. This means plus lanes on the left are included, but shoulder running locaties are not included. I want to make a shoulder/plus lane map once anyway.


NL rijstroken v3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Planen B

A6 between A1 and Almere-Stad-West doesn't carry 8 but 6 lanes.

Was thinking of a more abstract map with less colors myself, maybe I will make one too


----------



## g.spinoza

Very nice map, congrats. Pity that I'm a daltonic and in that map I can only see 3 colours...


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## peezet

did you draw the 5 lane section near Rijssen at the A1 ?
I don't see it


----------



## ChrisZwolle

g.spinoza said:


> Very nice map, congrats. Pity that I'm a daltonic and in that map I can only see 3 colours...


Better now? I didn't change the colors but the lines are much wider.



peezet said:


> did you draw the 5 lane section near Rijssen at the A1 ?
> I don't see it


You're right I will add those later. now

double tidal lane @ A1 Muiden also added


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> Better now? I didn't change the colors but the lines are much wider.
> 
> 
> 
> You're right I will add those later. now
> 
> double tidal lane @ A1 Muiden also added


A suggestion, for what it's worth: have some correlation between the scale of colors and what you're trying to represent. (If you didn't have so many types of road, you could use shades of, say, red that get deeper or more intense as the roads get wider, if you know what I mean. You might still be able to come up with something that goes from white to light yellow to deeper yellow to light orange....and through red to deep purple to black. If you see what I mean.)


----------



## g.spinoza

ChrisZwolle said:


> Better now? I didn't change the colors but the lines are much wider.


Much better, thanks.

PS: 16 lanes? Seriously?


----------



## Fuzzy Llama

Why does some stretches have odd number of lanes? Are the differences in traffic that great (and again, why?), or are those sections in the process of widening? I don't suppose that those are sections with reversible lanes, because otherwise I'd remember it


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Penn's Woods said:


> A suggestion, for what it's worth: have some correlation between the scale of colors and what you're trying to represent. (If you didn't have so many types of road, you could use shades of, say, red that get deeper or more intense as the roads get wider, if you know what I mean. You might still be able to come up with something that goes from white to light yellow to deeper yellow to light orange....and through red to deep purple to black. If you see what I mean.)


I was thinking about that in a second generation map. But I need to organize the .svg first into layers before I can do that, it takes some more work. This was my first ever inkscape creation. 



g.spinoza said:


> PS: 16 lanes? Seriously?


Only on two short sections.

But it does look awesome:











Fuzzy Llama said:


> Why does some stretches have odd number of lanes? Are the differences in traffic that great (and again, why?), or are those sections in the process of widening? I don't suppose that those are sections with reversible lanes, because otherwise I'd remember it


There are a few sections which have more lanes in one direction than the other, for example 2+3 or 4+5 or 5+6 lanes. They are usually short sections. Another issue is that there are two locations where there is a plus lane in one direction only. Sometimes it's just to move the traffic jam away from an important hub to prevent a gridlock, not to solve the traffic jam alltogether.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Utrecht - Den Bosch*

Construction commenced today on a 10 kilometer section of A2 for a road widening from 6 to 8 lanes. It is mainly the section between Nieuwegein and interchange Everdingen. South of Everdingen, there are already 8 lanes. The works should be completed in late 2011.

By 2012, the A2 will feature 8 lanes minimum for 60 kilometers. :cheers:

map:


----------



## Coccodrillo

I think you could make the map clearer using less colours: just four, for 4, 6, 8 and 10 or more. Motorways with an odd number of lanes could be drawn as having one lane less (2+3 ==> 4 lanes).


----------



## sotonsi

ChrisZwolle said:


> By 2012, the A2 will feature 8 lanes minimum for 60 kilometers. :cheers:


That's pushing for the longest bit of 8-lanes in Europe - is it the case that even through major junctions there'd be 8-lanes? If so it wins, as the UK's long sections have lane drops down to 6-lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Not quite.

Interchange Holendrecht (A2/A9) will feature a parallel setup that exceeds 8 lanes, but no 4 lanes per direction continuous. Same for interchange Oudenrijn which will feature 8 lanes, but again a parallel setup. Interchange Everdingen is limited to 3+3 through lanes, though the 2-lane section (southbound) is only some 300 m long.

Everdingen is an interesting interchange. Looking from south to north, a lot of traffic on A2 exits towards A27 (maybe as much as 40 -50%) and a lot of traffic on A27 enters A2 (could be as much as 40 - 50% too). This means the short section between the exit and the merging points does not require 8 lanes of capacity.

Map:


----------



## snowman159

Nice map, Chris! Must have been a lot of work.

Maybe varying the thickness of lines in addition to different colors might make it a bit easier to read?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Den Bosch - Eindhoven*

The A2 Den Bosch ('s-Hertogenbosch) - Eindhoven will be widened from 4 to 6 lanes between 2011 and 2013. 

Map:









However, when I look at the projected traffic volumes, the 60 - 80% growth in 13 years seems somewhat exaggerated. Other projects did not have a huge increase like this, only some 2 - 3% per year for a widening project. There aren't too many alternate routes which could shift this much traffic onto A2.










This also means there will be 100.000 + vehicles per day for 120 kilometers in a row. I doubt there are many sections in Europe which exceed that. I know Germany doesn't have such volumes, but the United Kingdom may have it (especially M1 and M6).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some more statistics about the northern part of A2 between Amsterdam and Utrecht. I really like traffic statistics. These are weekday (monday - sunday) volumes, workday (monday - friday) volumes are generally some 10% higher. Remember this is a rural motorway.










In traffic planning, workday volumes are more relevant because they receive the highest traffic counts. However, the law says weekday volumes have to be used in acoustical surveys, because that's the average over a whole week.

I think a 2-lane reversible lane in the median may be necessary after 2020, generating 7 lanes in the rush hour direction. Utrecht grows like crazy. In the long-term developments the rural peripheral areas of the Netherlands will decline, while the western and central parts of the Netherlands will continue to grow. The city of Utrecht grew by 75.000 inhabitants in the past decade.


----------



## kosimodo

snowman159 said:


> Nice map, Chris! Must have been a lot of work.
> 
> Maybe varying the thickness of lines in addition to different colors might make it a bit easier to read?


Changing the colours wouldnt be a bad idea.. Now it is not apperant which color has the most lanes.

_Now Chris isnt bored this evening...._


----------



## Natomasken

Grisent said:


> It's difficult to turn that concept into a pictogram. I very vaguely remember that in one European country (Sweden???), something like a cartoon text bubble is used to signify "This destination also contains, or refers to:". That's the closest solution I've seen.


Here's an example from the E6 around Gothenburg, if I remember right.









There was another section of the E6 where they used Danish-style signs and the text "folj."









It took me longer to figure out what the "bubble" meant than "folj," but once figured out, the bubble is very recognizable and avoids having to use text, always a good thing. (Never really connected "folj" and "follow" though.)


----------



## Penn's Woods

piotr71 said:


> I checked in translator and am pretty certain that most of visitors from Germanic countries would get it.
> 
> Danish - følge
> Norwegian - følg
> German - folge
> Swedish - följa
> Icelandic - fylgja
> and English, which in my opinion does not differ from the rest too much - follow
> 
> I used google translator which sometimes does its job in, let's say, interesting way:
> 
> Serbian - Фоллов.
> 
> Just could not believe since discovered this.


I don't know that the relationship between -g and -ow is obvious to a non-linguist, in a moving car in an unfamiliar area where the signs are full of unfamiliar things. Heck, for all he knows, "volg" could be another place name. But my intent was not to make an issue of this....


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ To help it out, volg = follow but vogel = birds. So if you are not familiar, you might see these "vogels" signs and don't get any sense of them


----------



## mappero

Penn's Woods said:


> I don't know that the relationship between -g and -ow is obvious to a non-linguist, in a moving car in an unfamiliar area where the signs are full of unfamiliar things. Heck, for all he knows, "volg" could be another place name. But my intent was not to make an issue of this....


And for large Slavic part of Europe how you do that?
Polish - podążaj
Slovak - nasledovať 
Czech - následovat 
...


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ not to mention the romance part. I think that when possible only graphic signs should be used. I guess in this case just a downward arrow would do the job.

BTW I don't see the need for "follow". There aren't any such signs in Italy, for instance, but we reach our destinations anyway


----------



## ChrisZwolle

g.spinoza said:


> BTW I don't see the need for "follow". There aren't any such signs in Italy, for instance, but we reach our destinations anyway


The idea is that these "follow signs" reduce the number of destinations signed further along the route. Italy is known for its intersections with small signs that indicate 20 destinations that you can only read if you park there, so I'm not sure if that's the way to go. However, half of the destinations here shouldn't be signed anyway, you can assume ambulance drivers know which entry-point at the hospital they need. What's more astounding is that actual places of importance, like the motorways around Rotterdam are not signed at all. You have no idea which direction to follow if you want to get out of the city. 

Anyway, here is an article from a local newspaper in Barendrecht Metropolis about the new tunnel segments of the second Coentunnel. They are constructed at the Barendrecht construction dock and will be shipped to Amsterdam in April (via the North Sea! only the second time they do this) and will be sunk to form the tunnel. Each segment is 178 meters long.









Continue down the Amsterdam area, where the new A5 elevated motorway is under construction:


----------



## g.spinoza

ChrisZwolle said:


> The idea is that these "follow signs" reduce the number of destinations signed further along the route. Italy is known for its intersections with small signs that indicate 20 destinations that you can only read if you park there, so I'm not sure if that's the way to go.


It's not really like this. In most cases at intersections (I'm talking about normal roads, not highways) there are no more than 3-4 destinations. On motorways this is the worst you can get:









you can't say this is hard to read


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Netherlands want to introduce too, they're called "service signs", where all local destinations are signed beforehand, with the actual signage only containing important destinations. That way you can get rit of all the white (= local) destinations on major roads and motorways. Because it really got out of hand here with an overkill of local destinations.


----------



## zwanneman2

They sometimes use "route" in stead of "volg". Here's an example near Ede. "Route" is understood more universally I think.


----------



## peezet

and sometimes they don't 
and use both
http://maps.google.nl/maps?f=q&sour...51.479848,4.316018&spn=0.000523,0.003484&z=19


----------



## MAG

peezet said:


> and sometimes they don't
> and use both ...


:lol: ... or even 'via route Axx' or just 'via Axx'.

I have to say, using the construct 'via Axx' probably has the best chance of getting the message across. 
The Scandinavian example, shown above is OK, once you've been told what the pictogram means, but I found it counter-intuitive at first sight.

Even though I only have about one brain cell capable of rational thought, I've never had any problems with understanding the Dutch 'volg xxx' signs. They somehow clicked with me straightaway.




ChrisZwolle said:


> ... Each segment is 178 meters long.


Do you mean 17.8 m or 178 m? I know the article says 178 m but come on ...
Unless the tunnel is made in sections, how can anyone lift anything that long without breaking it?

Impressive, though, if it is true.


.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It is 178 m. They have a very ingenious way to transport these, they can submerge the whole construction dock, let the segments float, put a barge underneath it, and transport it to Amsterdam, where the segments will be sunk, which is the traditional way of constructing tunnels in the Netherlands. Because of our soft soil, bored tunnels need to be very deep. There are only two bored tunnels for road traffic (Hubertus Tunnel Den Haag (2008) and Westerschelde Tunnel (2003). There are a few bored train tunnels though (mainly High Speed Rail and Betuwe Freight Route).

This is the second time these tunnel segments are transported via open sea, the first time was in 1996 when the Wijker Tunnel near Haarlem (A9) was constructed.


----------



## Wuppeltje

1. 2e Heinenoordtunnel (1999) is also a bored tunnel for road traffic. The first bored tunnel in the Netherlands. 

2. It is will be the 3rd time that submerged tunnels will be used that are transported on open sea. The Piet Heintunnel (8x 158m segments) is also transported via open sea. As far as I know the longest route on open sea, because they had to be transported from Antwerp to Amsterdam.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Wuppeltje said:


> 1. 2e Heinenoordtunnel (1999) is also a bored tunnel for road traffic. The first bored tunnel in the Netherlands.


Correct. However, this tunnel is not open to general traffic, only agricultural traffic and mopeds, bicycles, etc, so I left that one out. It is not, as is often thought, a carriageway from the A29 motorway.

When the Heinenoord Tunnel was completed in 1968, it had 2x2 lanes, but with large shoulders for slow traffic. The first shoulder was sacrificed for a 3rd lane in 1991 in the eastern tube. The second one was reconfigured into a 3rd lane in 1999 after the 2nd Heinenoord Tunnel opened to traffic.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A5 Westrandweg Amsterdam, elevated motorway:


----------



## Coccodrillo

Is it 2+2? I wonder when they will have to enlarge it...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, it will feature 2x2 lanes and a forecasted traffic volume of 96.000 vehicles per day, so it will be congested. However, politically it was the maximum they could get out of them, so something is better than nothing. It will still reduce traffic on the A10-west (which carries 110.000 - 180.000 vehicles per day). 

The new A5 will be interesting for two major traffic flows;

* through traffic from A7 to A4
* regional traffic from Purmerend to Haarlem (A8 has a missing link).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A50 Nijmegen*

Transportation minister Schultz officially started the roadworks for the largest civil engineering project in eastern Netherlands; the construction of the second Waal Bridge in the A50 motorway. The new bridge is the largest constructed in the past 15 years, and will feature 4 lanes and a shoulder, which will be operated in the southbound direction. The existing 2x2 bridge will be retrofitted for operating in the northbound direction, ultimately leading to a 4+2+2 setup. The number of pylons will triple from 2 to 6. Rumor has it that the new bridge will be wide enough to carry all 6 lanes during renovation of the old bridge. The new bridge will be completed in 2013, after which the old bridge will be renovated. Full 8 lane capacity will be in operation in late 2013 or early 2014. 

1. Current bridge:









2. Future bridge:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Utrecht - Veenendaal*

The A50 construction start was not Schultz's only job today. She also officially commenced the widening of A12 between interchange Lunetten (A27) to Veenendaal, a distance of 29 kilometers. A12 will be widened using a variety of solutions. The first section from Lunetten to Bunnik will be widened to 2x4 regular lanes. Then 2x3 lanes + plus lanes to Driebergen, 2x2 + plus lanes to Maarsbergen and 2x2 + shoulder running to Veenendaal.

The works should be completed in early 2013, almost 2 years ahead of schedule (late 2014).


----------



## Ni3lS

Sweet news.


----------



## Suburbanist

sotonsi said:


> This isn't the bit north of the A29 though, is it? Or has that bit of the A4 - from the A15 to the A29 - already got the go ahead?


That sector, AFAIK, still doesn't have concrete plans for conclusion. The project posted concerns this segment: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...58283,4.359169&spn=0.171307,0.349846&t=h&z=12


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's part of a study to improve traffic on the south side of Rotterdam. I don't expect it before 2020, as there are other major investments in the Rotterdam area in the next 5 - 9 years (A13-A16 connection, A15 widening, new A24 or A54 tunnel in the port area). 

This particular section between Interchange Benelux and (future?) interchange Klaaswaal has been planned since the 1950's and space has been reserved for this motorway between Spijkenisse and Oud-Beijerland. However, it would likely require either two tunnels or two bridges spanning the Oude Maas and Spui rivers.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Video: A2 Amsterdam - Utrecht.


----------



## mappero

sotonsi said:


> This isn't the bit north of the A29 though, is it? Or has that bit of the A4 - from the A15 to the A29 - already got the go ahead?


What about this cut off stretch of the woodlands missing motorway? Can be used for upgrade A58 and A4 connection?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, that is the underground pipeline highway between the ports of Rotterdam and Antwerpen. Natural gas and oil are pumped through it. You can follow its path throughout the area.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

What an awesome concept. That is high up on the "Do Like" scale.


----------



## Surel

Interesting, but braking and handling on this thing...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Badhoevedorp*

Local media reports the finances for the A9 realignment near Badhoevedorp have been secured. The new 2x3 A9 will be moved from the town to outside the town. The current A9 has 2x2 lanes with shoulder running and near 95,000 vehicles per day. The project costs just over € 300 million. A design record of decision is expected in the spring of 2011, a final ROD late 2011 and construction could commence late 2012 or early 2013. Completion in the summer of 2016.


----------



## Warsaw spectator

Surel said:


> ^^
> They have yet to invent variable horizontal signing. Perhaps it could be possible to make the line change from solid to dashed and back if needed :O?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X-TaW1YaZA


----------



## Suburbanist

*A-58 Tilburg - Eindhoven*

This is part of a Tilburg - Enschede trip I took last week.

Ringban Zuid, near the access to the highway.









Cool and very modern office building on the roadside.









Approaching interchange De Baars, which operates as a complex express + collector system that also features a local exit.

















A65 is not completed to Den Bosch, it has an expressway sector with 5 annoying traffic lights.









Heavy traffic, no jams though.










A58 doesn't have a shoulder running. What is the point of that panel over the shoulder then?









I didn't understood the exact meaning of the sign, but I got it is recommending drivers to adjust their speeds as not do disrupt the flow.









Quite worn-out and noisy pavement here









We reached Eindhoven


----------



## Suburbanist

*Randweg Eindhoven*

Here I post pictures of the W and S sections of Eidhoven's highway ring. It is one of the most impressing urban highway sectors of the country (though it doesn't put a challenge to Ring Rotterdam IMO).

There is nothing to indicate that if you take the wrong direction, you'll fall into express lanes and cannot exit for 17km.









Interchange Batadorp









Graffiti :bash: IT spoils the beauty of those concrete structures









It operates as 3+2+2+3. 10 lanes to speed up flows from 6 different directions in 3 countries.









Noise barriers









Stylish light poles.









I took the wrong exit at interchange De Hogt and had to go almost to Belgium to get back on my way :lol:









Typical Dutch highway exit signaling. I don't like them much because they are hard to be seen from distance and distract you.









Industrial estates directional sign









Interchange De Hogt



























Interchange Veldhoven and end of the Randweg


----------



## Suburbanist

*Geldrop - Ring Eindhoven*

I took urban local roads to get back from exit 34 @ A67 to Ring Eindhoven. There are some key elements to Dutch common traffic practices there:

lane-separated roundabout. I am sure somebody has got a better picture of those, but essentially they are roundabouts with pre-selection lanes than are separated by a low median, better organizing traffic. If you miss your lane, you will end in other exit and will be not able to circle the roundabout (at least not legally)









Alternative route.









Local signaling. As I was taking this shot, the driver on the car in front of me step out of her vehicle to contend with me "why are you taking pictures of my car".









Lane-separated 1x2 road, but speeds are still annoying 50 km/h









Geldropseweg, local road, with overbuilt bike lanes. No need for 2 bike lanes there: one each side of the road, slightly wider, would suffice.









Noise barrier with funny/goofy birds painted on it









Now we're about to enter Ring Eindhoven, a mixed (local or expressway) urban ring road of Eindhoven.









Out-of-standard signaling









Urban expressway exit with more generous ramps than many highway exits


















Entering A50


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## Suburbanist

*A50 Eindhoven - Herveld*

The first sector of A50 has a quite twisted alignment for a flat-out area. 

Here, an ecoviaduct.









Trench at Son en Breugel.


















Perfect paving


















Bridge of a canal at Veghel









Interchange Ewijk (A73 terminus)









From that interchange onwards A50 becomes busy. Here, shoulder running opened.









Bridge over Maas









Interchange Valburg (c+d coverleaf, A15). I exit there.


----------



## Suburbanist

*A15, A325 and N325 (around Arnhem)*

There was congestion on A50, so I avoided it by taking an alternative route to A12 south of Arnhem.

A15 with roadworks marking









A15 terminus at interchange Bemmel









Seen from below:









Crossing under Betuwe freight railway after entering A325









A325


















It ends abruptly in Arnhem at a traffic light, then you turn right into N325









Keizerviaduct









N325 expressway at Arnhem









Back to highways: Westvervoot interchange, I'm joining A12 east.


----------



## Suburbanist

*A12, A18 and N18 (Arnhem - Enschede)*

A12 is a very busy highway connecting Rotterdam port with Germany. Hence, many trucks.










Variable double sign. I have no idea what else directions, if any, do they put there instead of this. I took exit to A18 there.









It's only 68km but that will take a quite long time.









Is this the new exit sign standard?









A18 in need of resurfacing or repaving.









A18 now becomes N18.









N18 was busy. It is a regular road, not an expressway, and can't cope with the traffic it bears for sure.


















Vehicles crossing put themselves at risk: traffic is intense, they have to wait a lot. I'm surprised it has not as many traffic lights as I'd expect, though.



















It is so substandard in some crossings mopeds are allowed on a route of national importance!


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Suburbanist said:


> This is part of a Tilburg - Enschede trip I took last week.
> 
> I didn't understood the exact meaning of the sign, but I got it is recommending drivers to adjust their speeds as not do disrupt the flow.


Is it a construction sign? At least that's what I think it is, going by the color.

This is what I got using Google Translate: expressed at speeds, for better flow through

Clicking on "Did you mean", I got this: expressed at speed, for better flow

:lol: :nuts:


----------



## Spookvlieger

^^ When busy, adjust speed for better flow through, that's what it says...Google translater for Dutch is very bad...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> Keizerviaduct


Andrej Sacharov Bridge.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

joshsam said:


> ^^ When busy, adjust speed for better flow through, that's what it says...Google translater for Dutch is very bad...


Flow through is as bad a translation for "doorstroming" as knot-point is for "knooppunt" (I actually saw someone writing knot-point one time :lol: )


----------



## aswnl

Suburbanist said:


> Back to highways: Westvervoot interchange


1. Westervoort is still some km away
2. The interchange is called Velperbroek


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> Andrej Sacharov Bridge.





aswnl said:


> 1. Westervoort is still some km away
> 2. The interchange is called Velperbroek


Looks like Google Maps has some flaws. :lol: Thanks for correct info.


----------



## Suburbanist

*N259 (Tilburg - Reusel), N284 (Reusel - Belgium)*

N269 is route connecting Tilburg to Reusel. It starts at interchange De Baars, and until Hilvarenbeek it is built up to highway standards. I suppose it was meant to be an autosnelweg all the way to A57, but never finished.

Beginning of the highway sector.









Old-school concrete pavement and early 70's generous viaducts.









Don't ever think of speeding, despite the huge median and everything else. Blame it on 'consistency'.









Nice landscaping near a nearby Safari park.


















One of those complex roundabouts with 2-lanes and low median. End of the highway-standard sector









Grade-separated junction as Hilvarenbeek. There is ROW ready for widening there.


















Lage Mierd. Here, the road is just a normal one, no ROW reserved for widening.


















Now, a building in the middle of N284









Belgian border









I'll post more on the Belgian thread


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Suburbanist said:


> Now, a building in the middle of N284
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll post more on the Belgian thread


That's an interesting place to put a small hotel (Hotel La Frontiere). :lol: I guess it's well soundproofed, given the proximity to the road. I initially mistook it for the old customs building. I guess the greyish building was the old Customs facility.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N61 Hoek - Schoondijke*

Minster Schultz of transportation signed the final record of decision today for the widening of N61 to a 4-lane divided highway. Works should commence later this year and an opening is foreseen in early 2014. The N61 is not very busy with 12,000 vehicles per day but is one of the unsafest N-roads in the Netherlands with many fatalities. To not disturb the free horizon in Zeeuws-Vlaanderen, no grade-separated interchanges will be constructed. A small portion near a sensitive natural area west of Hoek will remain two-laned. The rest will get 2x2 lanes. 

route:


----------



## Suburbanist

Fargo Wolf said:


> That's an interesting place to put a small hotel (Hotel La Frontiere). :lol: I guess it's well soundproofed, given the proximity to the road. I initially mistook it for the old customs building. I guess the greyish building was the old Customs facility.


Yes, there is an old customs building with a rusty flag pole after this building, and then a Belgium country sign.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

I was looking at that with Google's Streetview. Must be an interesting story as to how putting the hotel there was possible.


----------



## aswnl

When I was there some years ago I remember only an old frontierbuilding in that spot. Nice hotel, far better than the old building.


----------



## Junk

Edit


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice aerial of the N7 Geau aqueduct in Sneek.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N305 Almere - Harderwijk*

Roadworks will commence this week to widen the N305 provincial highway from 2 lanes to a 4-lane dual carriageway for 20 kilometers.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

From March 1st, *130 km/h* will be the maximum speed limit on A7 between Wognum and Zurich (55 km). 

This is part of a series of trials to increase speed limits on various motorways and study the effects on noise emissions, air quality and traffic safety. By July 2011, 8 motorways will receive a 130 km/h speed limit.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> From March 1st, *130 km/h* will be the maximum speed limit on A7 between Wognum and Zurich (55 km).
> 
> This is part of a series of trials to increase speed limits on various motorways and study the effects on noise emissions, air quality and traffic safety. By July 2011, 8 motorways will receive a 130 km/h speed limit.


You seem very excited by this development....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Just to accentuate it 

It's remarkable that in this day and age where 80% of the Dutch rural roads are downgraded from 80 to 60 km/h we can still see speed limit increases.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Badhoevedorp - Velsen*

Shoulder running will be inaugurated today on the A9 motorway between interchanges Badhoevedorp and Velsen (16 km), west of Amsterdam.


----------



## Slagathor

ChrisZwolle said:


> *N305 Almere - Harderwijk*
> 
> Roadworks will commence this week to widen the N305 provincial highway from 2 lanes to a 4-lane dual carriageway for 20 kilometers.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/W1Ci5.png


For god's sake that thing doesn't even go anywhere


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well apparently it's a heavily utilized back route from Harderwijk to Almere and to Amsterdam. It is considered on of the least safe routes in Flevoland because of many head-on accidents.


----------



## Planen B

But the N305/Waterlandseweg (between A6 and A27) is 2x1 so what's the use in upgrading only that part? If it's just to provide safe means for passing other cars wouldn't alternating 2+1 have been a more economic solution?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ChrisZwolle said:


> From March 1st, *130 km/h* will be the maximum speed limit on A7 between Wognum and Zurich (55 km).


:cheers:


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ I hope it was not implemented with that fog...


----------



## Slagathor

^^ What fog?  That's a pretty standard level of visibility here. You should see this place when the really dense North Sea fog comes rolling in:


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## ChrisZwolle

*A28 Utrecht - Amersfoort*

The ministry of transportation and waterworks published the "road adjustment decision" today. It's a simplified form of a record of decision. The A28 is currently a 2x2 motorway with 85 000 - 100 000 vehicles per day and is one of the most saturated motorways of the Netherlands operating near or at capacity throughout the day. Traffic jams can occur at any moment. 

The eastern section opened in 1962 as a bypass of Amersfoort. The right-of-way is narrow, because they didn't began to implement wider medians until the second half of the 1960's. The western section from Utrecht to Amersfoort opened in 1986, one of the last major motorway completions in the Randstad. It has a wide median and concrete pavement. 

The western section will be widened from 4 to 6 lanes using the median. Generally, no overpasses need adjustment for this. The eastern section is more difficult, and will receive a temporary median widening using so-called "plus lanes", which act like shoulder running, but then on the left side of the road. This is the 1962 section, which will be widened permanently after 2015 in conjunction with the Hoevelaken interchange rebuild. 

The road works will be carried out in 2011 and 2012. Here's a map of what the road layout will be in late 2012:









Here's a map of 2022 traffic volumes:


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## Fargo Wolf

On Google Maps, this community, Baarle Nassau shows up as a separate country. Why is this. The image is on the N260/Turnhoutseweg

http://maps.google.ca/maps?client=firefox-a&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=51.430483,4.932529&spn=0.000768,0.002747&z=19&layer=c&cbll=51.430614,4.932488&panoid=ywpsQ9FP-a3kzXOhRcebzA&cbp=12,341.65,,0,10.19

Is it an independent nation (like Monaco), Or is it a special area of some kind, like the ACT in New South Wales (I think) Australia?


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## ChrisZwolle

Those are exclaves of Belgium. Some of those exclaves also have Dutch enclaves. Really complicated (especially on the legal side, they want to build a bypass there).


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Ah. Okies.


----------



## Suburbanist

Baarle-Nassau is a remnant of late-Medieval mess Europe was.


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## petertenthije

Fargo Wolf said:


> On Google Maps, this community, Baarle Nassau shows up as a separate country. Why is this. The image is on the N260/Turnhoutseweg


Baarle Nassau is a strange community. It is a part of Belgium that lies in the Netherlands. To make it more interesting, _inside_ this little bit of Belgium there are small bits that are Dutch!

Long story short, in 1190 Hendrik the First was the duke of Brabant (the area Baarle-Nassau is part of). He traded bits of land with the lord of Breda. However, an exception had to be made for specific plots of land that had already been cultivated. Essentially, the Duke kept the farms and villages, the lord got the forests and wildlife. This was done because the Duke had already granted leases to the farmers / villagers that could not be cancelled, and as a bonus where rather lucrative as well!

Now fast forward a few centuries. In 1648 the peace of Munster was signed ending the 80 year war between Spain and the Dutch Republic (7 Provinciën). The northern provinces of present-day Netherlands form the republic. Part of the southern provinces of present-day Netherlands as well as all of present-day Belgium stay with Spain. The lands that belonged to the duke of brabant fall under the jurisdiction of the republic. The lands that belonged to the lord of Breda under Spanish jurisdiction.

Flash forward almost 200 years and you end up in 1839 with Belgium becoming an independant state. They are formed from the lands left by Spain. The Baarle-Nassau situation still not resolved.

Despite attempts to solve the Baarle-Nassau situation, no solution could be found that was satisfactory to all parties involved. And so we end up in 2011 with a Belgian "island" inside the Netherlands. An island that has several (tiny) Dutch "islands" inside!

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestand:Baarle-Nassau_-_Baarle-Hertog-en.svg


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*

Interesting, the A4 Delft - Schiedam "Midden-Delfland" project is, according to some, the most objected road project of the Netherlands. However, Rijkswaterstaat organized a series of meetings during the past weeks and in that time only 2 inhabitants surrounding the area attended. Rijkswaterstaat cancelled the remaining meetings in March and April.

This seems to become another A4-Leiderdorp, where the people living in the area have dropped their objections leaving the anti-car brigade / environmental wacko's as the sole opponents of this project. Hopefully Rijkswaterstaat can persuade some of them to drop their objections against the Council of State like it worked with the A15 widening.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1-A6-A9-A10 Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere*

Minister Schultz signed the flagship record of decision today; the largest road works in at least a decade: the widening and improvement of the motorways between Schiphol, Amsterdam and Almere. The works will cost € 4.4 billion and will commence late 2011 and be completed in 2020.

63 kilometers of motorway will be widened, with an additional 190 kilometer of lanes. This is a substitution of the canceled A6-A9 link which would've brought an additional 44 lane kilometers. Hence, this project is an improvement of almost 150 lane kilometers compared to the canceled project.

* A10 Amstel - Watergraafsmeer: from 6 to 8 lanes (2011-2012)
* A1 Watergraafsmeer - Diemen: from 6 to 10 lanes (2013-2016)
* A1 Diemen - Muiderberg: from 7 to 12 lanes (2013-2016)
* A6 Muiderberg - Almere-West: from 6 to 10 lanes (2013-2016)
* A6 Almere-West - Almere-Oost: from 4 to 8 lanes (2013-2016)
* A9 Diemen - Holendrecht: from 4 to 11 lanes (2016 - 2020)
* A9 Holendrecht - Badhoevedorp: from 6 to 8 lanes (2016 - 2020)










Signing of the ROD:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Here's a detailed map I translated.


SAA EN-3000px by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Coccodrillo

These will be real tunnels or something like the one in Utrecht?


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## ChrisZwolle

They will be at-grade tunnels, over the existing motorways. These are quite challenging projects to operate a 4-lane motorway while constructing an 11-lane covered motorway at the same spot in tight quarters.


----------



## BigMike90

big truck crash today on the A1 between Apeldoorn-Bathmen, over 18km at one point.


----------



## Kaaskop

According to a college of spatial economics, road pricing is absolutely neccesary to effectively battle congestion. Road pricing in combination with a larger road capacity is how the deadweight loss can be minimized (in other words, to maximize the production).
However, it's hard to manage this in a democratic society, because the remaining road-users have higher costs and many others are forced to take an other, less prefered way of transport. 

The system in Athens, where cars with odd and even number plates would be allowed into the city on alternate days, is one of the worst things you can do, both economical and environmental:
- In a road-pricing system, users with the highest benefits will be using the highways: they are willing to pay the higher prices. In this sytem, however, that isn't the case.
- Due to the numberplate system, many housholds have bought a second car. However, this car is often an old one, with higher emissions.

Interesting theories... Perhaps we need a "kilometerheffing" after all.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

proponents of road pricing assume there is a significant price elasticity in road transport.

However, numerous price increases of fuel, fuel tax, road tax, automobile taxes already proven this isn't the case. 

Right now fuel prices are at their all time records, and traffic volumes are at the same time at all-time highs.

The only thing you can achieve is to price the poor off the road. What kind of tolls do they want to introduce to get people in one of the wealthiest nations on earth off the road?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Council of State annouced three important road judgments today.

1) Appeals of a farmer against the 4th lane of A12 between Utrecht and Woerden have been rejected. The appeal was made over noise technicalities involving another road (noise cumulation).

2) Appeals of a plants breeder in Tilburg against the widening of the northeastern section of N261 Ring Road to 2x2 lanes have been rejected. 

3) Appeals of a local against the construction of the new 2x2 N260 ring road in northwestern Tilburg have also been rejected. The local argued the new ring road is not necessary, but did not provide any proof to his statements.

Here's a map of the Tilburg situation:


----------



## Ingenioren

Most European countries have tolls, so it shouldn't be to hard to find cases to study... I have a sense that barriers around public transport nods can work, but km-pricing not so good. And the license plate thing is just stupid...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Western Bypass 's-Hertogenbosch*

On March 18th, the final link of the western bypass of 's-Hertogenbosch opened to traffic. This is a dual carriageway, but not a motorway. It completes the full ring road around 's-Hertogenbosch.

's-Hertogenbosch is also called "Den Bosch" and is the capital of the North Brabant province.

I shot this video this morning:


----------



## Attus

Ingenioren said:


> Most European countries have tolls, so it shouldn't be to hard to find cases to study... I have a sense that barriers around public transport nods can work, but km-pricing not so good. And the license plate thing is just stupid...


It's two different objects:
1., Road tolls in order to get the costs of road maintain from the users. Many European nations have such a system by toll stations and/or vignettes. In my opinion it is OK especially in roads where maintain costs are high (motorways, tunnels, bridges). Since some nations have had such a toll system for decades we can notice that almost all the cars (over 99%) take the motorway instead of using some secondary (but free) roads. BUt even for that 1% (typically trucks!) many nations created road tolls for secondary roads as well (typically only for trucks). This is the case e.g. in Hungary.
2., Tolls of political reasons: in order to force people not to use (or use less) the road but take public transport instead. I think such a system is only acceptable in places (typically city downtowns) where adding more roads is impossible or is only possible by extremely high costs. These are so called congestion charges. 
Although the Netherlands have one of the heaviest traffic of Europe and is one of the most densely inhabitated nations of Europe (actually the top one if you take city states out), I am not sure if there is any place in the Netherlands where such a congestion charge could be acceptable since there are no real city downtons there unlike in London, Frankfurt or even Budapest and traffic is far less concentrated than in London or Singapore (cities that have a congestion charge).


----------



## Falusi

On what depends that the right line is solid or dashed?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Falusi said:


> On what depends that the right line is solid or dashed?


The road markings are part of the "sustainable safety" program. It was developed during the 1990's and mainly implemented in the last 6 or 7 years. 

Only expressways and motorways have solid edge markings. Other roads do not. The idea is these broken road markings would cause people to drive slower. I doubt if it has any statistically significant effect on the V85 value, but (tens of) thousands of kilometers of roads received new road markings. It's basically a huge waste of tax money, the system we had before (RONA) was way more simplified and easier to understand.


----------



## Penn's Woods

mgk920 said:


> ^^
> And, very interestingly, 'van Zeeland' is a very common surname in my hometown metro area (Little Chute, WI, adjacent to Appleton, was heavily settled by immigrant Dutch).
> 
> Also, a few doors down from where I grew up in Appleton, was a dutch family that fled the Nazi occupation during WWII.
> 
> Mike


Across the lake from you, I believe Holland, Mich., has a suburb called Zeeland (or Zealand - not sure). There are a lot of Dutch in that area. And Dutch was still spoken (at least in formal circumstances like Dutch Reformed church services) in the Hudson Valley of New York into the early 19th century.

But I digress....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Newly widened N62 near the Westerschelde Tunnel. It's almost a motorway... (just not by classification: autoweg 100 km/h)



Hart van Zeeland said:


> De Westerscheldetunnelweg tussen tolplein en tunnelentree is recent opgebouwd tot 2x2. Het resultaat mag er wezen!
> 
> Richting Terneuzen/Gent
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Richting Goes/Vlissingen


----------



## Spookvlieger

^^Nice!, I've drivin on it 3 weeks ago when going to vlissingen  I didn't knew i was a normal road before...The sides where still not grown over by grass.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A24 / A54 New Western Connection Rotterdam*

As some of you may know, there are studies for a new fixed link in the port of Rotterdam area. Currently, the Benelux Tunnel is the westernmost fixed link, and is located 25 kilometers inland. There are no fixed links between the port of Rotterdam and the Westland greenhouse area / Den Haag region. 

There are two options; both of which will likely be a tunnel considering the clearance needed for shipping. The A24 Blankenburg Tunnel is the easternmost tunnel, with 2x3 lanes and will run from A15 near Rozenburg to A20 east of Maassluis. The A54 is located more to the west, and will run from the Europort Oil Terminals to the A20 terminus near Westerlee. This tunnel option will feature 2x2 lanes.

The minister of transportation will make a decision in 2011. It looks like that the eastern Blankenburg tunnel will have the biggest chance of being constructed. While it is still located pretty far inland, it serves large traffic flows, especially from Zeeland (N57) and the large suburb of Spijkenisse towards A20 and A4. An A54 would likely require an extension to A4 near Delft, which is unlikely at the moment given the densely build-up nature of this area (greenhouses). 

map:


----------



## snowdog

Hopefully it'll be built as quickly as possible, I've always found if funny the Beneluxtunnel is the last link before the sea...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A6/A7 Knooppunt Joure*

Knooppunt Joure (Interchange Joure) is a motorway interchange in Friesland province, where A6 terminates at A7. It is the last remaining roundabout motorway interchange in the Netherlands which features no fly-overs at all. Traffic jams are not very long, but delays are significantly, especially during the summer season when holiday traffic (which is almost 24/7 in Friesland) can cause delays over 20 minutes here.

It will be replaced by a full motorway interchange. The funding comes from the cancelled "Zuiderzeelijn", a once-proposed railway (Lelystad - Heerenveen - Groningen). The funding is now directed to various road and rail projects. 

The traffic volumes on this interchange are not as high as in western Netherlands, but still significant, the A7 east of the interchange carries 60 000 vehicles per day. A7 west carries approximately 30 000, as does A6 south of the interchange. The main flow goes from Emmeloord to Heerenveen. 

The new interchange design will cater this traffic flow, where A7 will become a TOTSO. Although A7 runs to the Amsterdam area, A6 is shorter. It will be constructed quite spacious, similar to interchange Zurich (A7/N31).

Current situation:









New design: (upper left = A7 to Heerenveen, right = A6 to Emmeloord)


----------



## Junk

At last. Do you have any information on knooppunt Hooipolder being reconstructed?


----------



## mappero

Great news about A6/A7 Knooppunt Joure ! 
Five years ago when I drive on A7 I was shocked you can have roundabout in the middle of nowhere whilst drive on motorway. Then realised it's quite typical in The Netherlands.
Nowadays sometimes I stuck during traffic but no more in the future 
Could someone explain why here in NL roundabouts where built on the motorways? Because was goedkoopste? 
Even on the other side of Iron Curtain hasn't been done such a (stupid?) type of motorways junction...


----------



## Suburbanist

mappero said:


> Could someone explain why here in NL roundabouts where built on the motorways? Because was goedkoopste?
> Even on the other side of Iron Curtain hasn't been done such a (stupid?) type of motorways junction...


My guess is that they wanted to build more mileage, leaving interchange construction for later, with space already saved. The Dutch are quite good preserving ROW for decades for projects that will come to fruition much later.


----------



## Koesj

mappero said:


> Could someone explain why here in NL roundabouts where built on the motorways?


Even one of the most travelled interchanges in NL, Oudenrijn, was constructed as a simple roundabout at first. Traffic volumes weren't that high so an at grade solution was deemed acceptable I guess. More on the history of that particular situation here: http://www.autosnelwegen.nl/asw/his/frames.html?/asw/his/his04.htm (in dutch but look at the pretty pictures! )

Interchange Joure was opened in 1973 though and design standards had already come a long way. I think we've got another case of the Northern parts of the country being short-changed here. Heerenveen used to be a roundabout too and was only upgraded to a substandard cloverleaf without parallel lanes. 

Same goes for Holsloot (A37-N34), Drachten (A7-N31) and the upcoming project near Westbroek (A7-N33). The last case is a prime example of austerity measures hitting a proposed project right where it hurts. Instead of even a substandard cloverleaf the latest plans call for a hybrid at-grade dogbone roundabout on the new four lane N33, a national roads hno:

Compared with interchange Zurich and the plans for Joure and Assen-Zuid (all three of them having full, free-flowing connections with a huge ROW) it's a funny mix of high-level and lowbrow interchange design in Friesland, Drenthe and Groningen.


----------



## -Pino-

The North of the Netherlands is of course a sparsely populated part of the country that hardly gets any international traffic. With traffic volumes being so low, there has always been little incentive to upgrade roads. 

The A7 from the Afsluitdijk eastwards is probably the most substandard motorway that we have in the Netherlands. Whether at the Afsluitdijk itself, at Sneek, at Groningen or at those few strange at-grade crossings, nobody ever saw the need the fix it. And let's be honest, traffic didn't really suffer from it either.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Dutch motorway turns 74*

Today, 74 years ago, on April 15th, 1937, the first motorway section in the Netherlands was inaugurated. The A12 opened to traffic for 9 kilometers between Voorburg en Zoetermeer, just east of The Hague. It was the first motorway in the world to feature continuous shoulders, which were made out of brick at the time. 

:banana:


----------



## piotr71

Any historic pictures?


----------



## aswnl

Koesj said:


> More on the history of that particular situation here: http://www.autosnelwegen.nl/asw/his/frames.html?/asw/his/his04.htm (in dutch but look at the pretty pictures! )


A limited number of pages on the history of Dutch motorways are also available in English and German.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A28 Zwolle*

Some pictures I took this afternoon from an overpass. It has been rumored the 3rd lane will finally open next week after being in hibernation for 6 months since construction was finished. 


1.

A28 17-4-2011-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

2.

A28 17-4-2011-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

3.

A28 17-4-2011-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

4.

A28 17-4-2011-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

5.

A28 17-4-2011-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

6.

A28 17-4-2011-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^I see we've resolved our Flickr issue?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Mashed potatoes on A2 in Eindhoven.



















Traffic is detoured.


----------



## tripleseis

Harry said:


> The quality of motorways in the Netherlands is astonishing. Very well engineered, and obviously a lot of investment. I guess you have a different sort of network to most western European countries in that the Netherlands is very densely populated and long distances (by the standards of most other European countries) do not really exist due to the relatively small size of the country. Most stretches of road are, by definition, near a large town/city or forming an important bypass. This strengthens the case for investment.
> 
> Twelve lane stretches like the one above are, I agree, very rare. I can think of only two in the UK; both of which are no more than a few miles/km in length. Probably a good thing, to be honest!


The roads in the NL are generally fantastic. But I can definitely see that there are capacity problems especially around the Rotterdam area which we passed through on our way to Amsterdam. I can see they are widening the A4 near Leiden (IIRC?), looks like a serious bottleneck. 



Hart van Zeeland said:


> *N61: IJzendijke > Terneuzen*


This was the way we drove from Belgium to Holland. Rather than take the motorways around Antwerp, we took the Westscheldetunnel (which has radio reception all the way through it) and then drove along the coast to Rotterdam. There was roadworks around this area too by the tunnel and the dual carriageway was still coned between the tunnel and the toll booths. The drive through Zeeland is lovely.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Traffic fatalities 2010*

The number of traffic fatalities in 2010 dropped by 11% from 720 in 2009 to 640 in 2010. The drop was significant on 120 km/h motorways (-31% to 33 deaths).

Although motorways carry 50% of all traffic, only 5% of the fatalities occur here. 

Dutch:
http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/ministe...4/18/opnieuw-daling-aantal-verkeersdoden.html


----------



## snowdog

A statistic that perfectly shows we can easily increase the speed limit on them.

Stupid 80/100/120 kph limits, there is nothing bad about 180+ in the middle of the night or on very quiet bits of motorway like the A7...

The 100 kph limit on the A2 is disgusting and unbelievable.


----------



## aswnl

AlbertC79 said:


> The signage has also gotten a lot better too! I think the NL-standard for overhead signage should become the model for the rest of Europe!


The new signage is a mixture of the oldschool signage (which is basically derived from the American signage), and the existing German system. So you can see German-like signs with FHWA-font.


----------



## AlbertC79

aswnl said:


> It is a numbered detour route. Those can be permanent, but most are temporarily. Quick answer, well... ?


But how would an outsider know that this is a detoured route? Seems pretty vague and obscure, and can easily be confused for a regional route number. Look at it compared to the N210 shield, there's very little difference!




aswnl said:


> The new signage is a mixture of the oldschool signage (which is basically derived from the American signage), and the existing German system. So you can see German-like signs with FHWA-font.


Oh yeah, if you examine both signs, you can see the fusion of the two. I think Holland and possibly Spain(?) are the only two countries in Europe that I know of that use the FHWA (American) sign font. I seen pics of the signage from other Euro countries, and I still think Holland is my personal favorite.

Another quick question: Why is it that only Amsterdam has the Stadroutes (s100-s118) and not other Dutch cities? Has there been any consideration to also adding similar Stadroutes in other big cities such as Rotterdam or Utrecht?


----------



## Mr_Dru

AlbertC79 said:


> Another quick question: Why is it that only Amsterdam has the Stadroutes (s100-s118) and not other Dutch cities? Has there been any consideration to also adding similar Stadroutes in other big cities such as Rotterdam or Utrecht?


Other cities has S-routes as well.

*Like in Rotterdam*


















*or in Den Haag*
s100 (Centrumring)
s200 (Ring Den Haag)
s101: 
s102: 
s103:
s104: 
s105: 
s106: 
s107: 
s108: 

*Almere*
s101: 
s102: 
s103: 
s104: 
s105: 
s106:


----------



## Junk

I´ve read that Zaanstad is also planning on adding them. Cities like Utrecht or Eindhoven could easily add them as they have a large ring road and a smaller one (S100).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

AlbertC79 said:


> But how would an outsider know that this is a detoured route? Seems pretty vague and obscure, and can easily be confused for a regional route number. Look at it compared to the N210 shield, there's very little difference!


That's because you've seen one sign and not the whole sequence. There are signs beforehand that indicate to follow detour x for destination x, etc.


----------



## AlbertC79

ChrisZwolle said:


> That's because you've seen one sign and not the whole sequence. There are signs beforehand that indicate to follow detour x for destination x, etc.


Interesting!


----------



## AlbertC79

Vallex said:


> wait,wait..Sexbierum?!





ChrisZwolle said:


> That's right Sex-Beer-Rum!





da_scotty said:


> One of the most reguarly stolen city-signs in the Nethelands, together with the huge city of "Netherlands" (one street)


Probably not as hot of a commodity as the "Fucking, Austria" signs, or the old US-666 shields in the US. :lol:


----------



## AlbertC79

ChrisZwolle said:


> The same A2 in 1982!





bogdymol said:


> WOW! Is that railroad still there ?


I remember seeing that railroad crossing on the A2 and thought how weird it was to have one across a major freeway! I don't remember when it was dismantled, but I can vouch for it still being there as of October 2000.



bogdymol said:


> I passed over a railroad on a motorway near Miami, FL, but I think that one was not in use anymore.


No the RR Xing is still there and still in use. You're referring to the western terminus of Florida State Road 112 right next to Miami International Airport. The last mile or so of FL SR-112 is an At-Grade expressway (much like the A7/N7 gaps in Sneek and Groningen), and interesting enough, the directional lanes are REVERSED during that stretch!--Meaning for that last mile or so, cars drive on the left-side of the road much like in the UK.


----------



## bogdymol

AlbertC79 said:


> No the RR Xing is still there and still in use. You're referring to the western terminus of Florida State Road 112 right next to Miami International Airport. The last mile or so of FL SR-112 is an At-Grade expressway (much like the A7/N7 gaps in Sneek and Groningen), and interesting enough, the directional lanes are REVERSED during that stretch!--Meaning for that last mile or so, cars drive on the left-side of the road much like in the UK.


You might be right, this might be the railway crossing I noticed. I was comming from Miami Airport hading to I95-north, but I didn't notice utill now (on google earth) that there they drive like in UK. There is a similar thing in Italy, at A4/A50 interchange where the lanes are reversed and there was another plane in Italy but I can't remember right now where...


----------



## Penn's Woods

AlbertC79 said:


> Probably not as hot of a commodity as the "Fucking, Austria" signs, or the old US-666 shields in the US. :lol:


NJ 31 used to be numbered NJ 69. Supposedly, they changed it because they got tired of replacing the signs.

Then there's this place, which is actually very Amish (Not that the Amish don't... oh, never mind.): http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=40.038129,-76.106758&spn=0.029637,0.054846&z=14


----------



## aswnl

AlbertC79 said:


> I remember seeing that railroad crossing on the A2 and thought how weird it was to have one across a major freeway! I don't remember when it was dismantled, but I can vouch for it still being there as of October 2000.


The railway crossing was dismantled in june 1986.


----------



## AlbertC79

aswnl said:


> The railway crossing was dismantled in june 1986.


I distinctly remember seeing a RR crossing through a motorway in 2000, but I can't remember exactly which one. I DO remember that it was one of the Motorways I took from Druten to Schiphol Airport, so it was either A15, A2, A9 or A4. The signals and gates were there, but I don't know if they were still operational or not.


----------



## AlbertC79

Penn's Woods said:


> NJ 31 used to be numbered NJ 69. Supposedly, they changed it because they got tired of replacing the signs.
> 
> Then there's this place, which is actually very Amish (Not that the Amish don't... oh, never mind.): http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=40.038129,-76.106758&spn=0.029637,0.054846&z=14


They had the same problem with the old US-666 signs--too many were getting stolen and the state DOTs of New Mexico Arizona, Utah and Colorado (the states the road spanned) were getting sick and tired of replacing them, so I believe sometime in the mid 2000s (2003 I believe?), the US-666 designation was decommissioned, and the road was re-designated as US-491.


----------



## AlbertC79

bogdymol said:


> You might be right, this might be the railway crossing I noticed. I was comming from Miami Airport hading to I95-north, but I didn't notice utill now (on google earth) that there they drive like in UK. There is a similar thing in Italy, at A4/A50 interchange where the lanes are reversed and there was another plane in Italy but I can't remember right now where...


Oh there are plenty of instances in the USA where the directional lanes reverse for a short time--mostly at major interchanges and some exceptions (like SR-112). Look at the
interchange between Interstates 65 and 20/59 near Birmingham, Alabama.


----------



## mgk920

AlbertC79 said:


> Oh there are plenty of instances in the USA where the directional lanes reverse for a short time--mostly at major interchanges and some exceptions (like SR-112). Look at the
> interchange between Interstates 65 and 20/59 near Birmingham, Alabama.


There is a similar lane reversal in downtown Binghamton, NY.
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=42.094799,-75.908661&spn=0.009251,0.021973&t=k&z=16
Note the crossover on that short freeway (NY 363) just east of the main bridge.

Mike


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Also on Autoroute 20 for several kilometers southwest of Downtown Montreal. http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=45.465413,-73.603463&spn=0.003394,0.006856&z=17

(But, we're 3000 miles or so off topic and have been for several posts. The Dutch are very tolerant. )


----------



## bogdymol

Penn's Woods said:


> (But, we're 3000 miles or so off topic and have been for several posts. The Dutch are very tolerant. )


Chris is on vacantion :lol:


----------



## Palance

So, back on topic then 

Pictures of the new N223 road at Hoek van Holland, where ferries to Harwich (UK) depart.


----------



## Zagor666

This is one dutch sign i realy like :lol:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## Penn's Woods

Palance said:


> So, back on topic then
> 
> Pictures of the new N223 road at Hoek van Holland, where ferries to Harwich (UK) depart.


What's the Oranjetunnel and why are those sheep opposed to it?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Most of those are planned to be constructed within the next 7 years.


----------



## Advancer

They should also give the A58 from knooppunt galder to tilburg at least a plus lane.
It 120KM/H max there but most of the time you can be happy to be able to drive 100KM/H


----------



## Wuppeltje

snowdog said:


> More asphalt reduces congestion? Impossible!
> 
> /Groenlinks, PvdA, D66, Greenpies, miljeudefensie, PvdD, FNV, UN mode...


Funny though that the most right wing gouvernement in a long time is cutting on the budget of roads, while the income out of cars is rising.


----------



## Ewoutje

The news at 8 reported about the reduction of congestion last year, also with some nice shots of the A2 near Utrecht. Watch it here:
http://nos.nl/video/239175-filedruk-fors-afgenomen.html

Rough translation:


> "Traffic flows well on the A2 between Utrecht and Amsterdam, and not just outside rush hour. Nowadays you can also drive at normal speed between 7 and 9 in the morning. In the past, you would be stuck in traffic almost all the time. Most drivers are cheering, but there are also critical opinions."
> 
> Nimby: "Less congestion is fine, but I don't like more asphalt."
> Reporter: "But that is the consequence."
> Nimby: "Well thats a dilemma. Although I'm not sure if that is indeed the consequence, I think there might be other solutions."
> 
> Bloke: "I'm driving a lot, so im quite happy with it.
> Reporter: "More asphalt though."
> Bloke: "I've got no problems with that. Expanding from 2 to 3 lanes doesn't have a large impact, though it reduces congestion greatly."
> 
> "A year ago, drivers were stuck in traffic for longer and more frequent. Since then a large amount of extra traffic lanes have been added. This includes the A2 between Den Bosch and Amsterdam, the A12 and in the south on the a58 between interchange Batadorp and Moergestel. So all the widenings have an effect."
> 
> Reporter: "Do you think this effect will be structural?"
> VID man: "I think it will be structural for the time being, and I say it this way because we can expect that after a while new infrastructure will attrack new drivers, but at least in the coming years we will benefit."
> 
> The high petrol prices have no effect on the decrease, according to the Traffic Information Service (VID), and neither has the current economic situation.
> 
> VID man: "The economic situation is worse than a few years back, however when u compare it with last year the difference is quite small. The decrease of congestion is mostly thanks to the added traffic lanes."
> 
> "And then we're talking about almost 800 kilometers of moterway lanes that have been added in the last 4 years"


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> "And then we're talking about almost 800 kilometers of moterway that has been added in the last 4 years"


800 kilometers of motorway lanes in the next couple of years. Quite a difference.


----------



## Ewoutje

Yea I know, its the same way the reporter said it and is indeed confusing. I'll edit it.


----------



## Des

Great news! What worries me a bit is that if you look at the top 9 of the congestion top 50 (http://vid.nl/top50.html), it shows that the lost kmmin in 2010 saw a significant increase compared to 2009. However this might be because of road and construction works already in motion to extend current capacity. 

In a few years time the complete top 10 should be improved. Works on 1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9 and 10 are already under way or even finished.


----------



## Des

Anyone know when the new rush hour lanes on the A10 between KP Nieuwe Meer and KP RAI will open?

Edit: should be this month...

Augustus 2010 – mei 2011: Aanleg spitsstroken en testen
September - oktober 2011: Ontwerp-geluidplan ter inzage, inspraak mogelijk
Mei 2011: spitsstroken A4 en A10 in gebruik


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The reconstruction of interchange Kerensheide (A2/A76) near Geleen is going ahead full speed.









The face of A2 in Limburg will change drastically in the coming years, shoulder running between Echt and Geleen, new interchange Kerensheide, large ecoduct just north of Maastricht and of course the new double-stacked tube tunnel in Maastricht.


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ What was wrong with this particular interchange?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's a cloverleaf. They don't work with a lot of traffic changing direction. Here, over 50% of the A2 traffic goes towards A76 to Heerlen. So one "leaf" will be replaced by a fly-over.


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ Got it. Thanks.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

West Amsterdam Skyway:









for more:
http://www.fotomix.nl/Westrandweg_A5_g398.html


----------



## Palance

Pictures from 'the ground'  (taken last Friday)


----------



## snowdog

Looking good .


----------



## Pannyers

^^ are there still driving trains under the new A5? See some of the last pictures...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think those are industrial railways serving the western port area.


----------



## snowdog

I think he's asking if the rail is still in use during construction of the motorway ?


----------



## Palance

There are. There were signs something like "Blow the horn 3 times beacuse of the roadworks" (In Dutch of course ) near the railway.


----------



## lafreak84

Jumping in to say that I like the the alternate signal light flashing on Dutch highways to decrease traffic jams. I think it lasts for 2s and then it turns red. Amazing.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A74 Venlo*

Some aerials of the construction of A74 on the south side of Venlo.


----------



## Ewoutje

Nice pictures.

What's the status of the works on the other side of the border? Has construction started already there?


----------



## bleetz

I can't find any maps of the west Amsterdam skyway. Anybody has any?


----------



## Ewoutje

http://www.rijkswaterstaat.nl/images/Folder%20Tweede%20Coentunnel%20-%20Westrandweg_tcm174-301058.pdf

It's a brochure in Dutch (I can't find an English one), it has a schematic map.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A50 Arnhem: 2x3 lanes*

I made a video today of the newly widened A50 around the city of Arnhem. The widening was completed just before Easter.


----------



## bleetz

Ewoutje said:


> http://www.rijkswaterstaat.nl/images/Folder%20Tweede%20Coentunnel%20-%20Westrandweg_tcm174-301058.pdf
> 
> It's a brochure in Dutch (I can't find an English one), it has a schematic map.


Thanks. Looks like a massive project. Couldn't find the total length though.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A50 Schaarsbergen*

Some photos I took yesterday from the Schaarsbergen exit overpass, just north of Arnhem.

1. 

A50 Schaarsbergen-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

2.

A50 Schaarsbergen-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

3.

A50 Schaarsbergen-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

4.

A50 Schaarsbergen-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

5.

A50 Schaarsbergen-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Fender56

^^

I´ll be in the Netherlands for the next five weeks starting tomorrow. And hopefully the roads around Rotterdam, will not be as congested like they normally are. 

Will be passing Utrecht around 10AM, hopefully the roadworks will not spoil the day.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Most road improvements so far have not yet reached the Rotterdam metropolitan area. A12 was improved between Utrecht and Gouda (3+4 lanes now, 4th EB lane U/C). With the recent improvements around Utrecht, Rotterdam is now worse than Utrecht. The east-west motorways A15 and A20 are most congested, which often spills over to A16. A13 is also very congested. 

I hope you like your stay in the Netherlands. If you have some time to spare and are in the Rotterdam area, consider a tour across the N57 highway, where you can see all coastal defenses, including the world-famous Oosterschelde levee. 

Some more pictures I took yesterday:

*A50 Wolfheze*

This section was recently widened to 2x3 lanes, completed in the last week of April. 

1.

A50 Wolfheze-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

2.

A50 Wolfheze-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

3.

A50 Wolfheze-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

4.

A50 Wolfheze-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

5.

A50 Wolfheze-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## snowdog

Thanks for always posting your updates chris, I love looking at the pictures you make and post and re-posting picture collections of others .


----------



## AlbertC79

snowdog said:


> Thanks for always posting your updates chris, I love looking at the pictures you make and post and re-posting picture collections of others .


I agree, I always enjoy Chris' pics and videos!

I'm curious though Chris, how come you don't have a video of the Afsluitdijk? The closest I could find was a video of A7 from Joure to Zurich where you get off at the exit right before you cross onto the dike. At first, I thought maybe it was too boring for you, but then I saw you have a video of the Houtribdijk, which is pretty much the same thing. Any plans for an A7 Afsluitdijk crossing video in the near future?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ I will film the Afsluitdijk one day. It is a bit out of my usual directions though, it's either the annoyingly long route along provincial roads from Zwolle to Hoorn or the motorway detour via Amsterdam. 

Another 130 km/h trial started, along A6 between Almere and Joure. 130 km/h is allowed from 19.00 - 06.00 hours.


----------



## Ingenioren

Looks to be a bit overkill on the railings for A50 there, this is standard for Dutch motorways?


----------



## temlin

Ingenioren said:


> Looks to be a bit overkill on the railings for A50 there, this is standard for Dutch motorways?


I guess its for the animals in the woods.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Minister Schultz officially opened three road projects today in Zwolle. She also unveiled some statistics. The three projects are A1 in East Amsterdam, the A1-A6 Diemen - Almere and A28 Zwolle - Meppel. She also confirmed traffic congestion was down 65% at the improved locations (10 locations total). Not particularly bad if you consider these were among the worst bottlenecks in the Netherlands and shoulder running is particularly prone to incidents. Shoulder running ceases operation frequently due to fog, truck breakdowns, minor accidents, malfunctioning cameras, etcetera. Congestion was down 73% on A28 between Zwolle and Meppel.

Pictures:


----------



## Fuzzy Llama

ChrisZwolle said:


>


This is a VERY bad signage practice. 
According to Vienna conventions textual subtitles under a sign should be made in a way that wouldn't lead to breaking the law in case when somebody doesn't understand the language.

Here the 'universal' 130km/h sign increases the general speed limit but that additional panel states that it is not valid every time. A person who doesn't know any germanic language won't understand it and will go 130km/h any time. Dear Dutch roads authorities, that's not nice.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yep the sign has been heavily criticized on the Dutch highway forum. Especially because Germany has similar signs, for instance 130 km/h: 6 - 19. They should've left out the word "alleen" (only / nur).


----------



## Des

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yep the sign has been heavily criticized on the Dutch highway forum. Especially because Germany has similar signs, for instance 130 km/h: 6 - 19. They should've left out the word "alleen" (only / nur).


I don't see any reason why they added the word 'alleen', it hardly adds anything... hno:


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Fuzzy Llama said:


> Here the 'universal' 130km/h sign increases the general speed limit but that additional panel states that it is not valid every time. A person who doesn't know any germanic language won't understand it and will go 130km/h any time. Dear Dutch roads authorities, that's not nice.


Even if they don't understand the language, the times posted *SHOULD* give them a clue, that the limit only applies between 1900 (7 pm) - 0600 (6 am). I'm guessing that there's a variable speed limit sign fairly close by when the 130 km/h limit is not in effect.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Yep the sign has been heavily criticized on the Dutch highway forum. Especially because Germany has similar signs, for instance 130 km/h: 6 - 19. They should've left out the word "alleen" (only / nur).


I was going to say that myself Chris. I guess it was one of those "It was a good idea at the time." things.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Arnhem*

Some more pictures I took last Saturday.

*A12 Grijsoord*

These pictures were taken from an overpass adjacent to the Grijsoord motorway interchange.
1.

A12 Grijsoord-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

2.

A12 Grijsoord-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

3.

A12 Grijsoord-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

4.

A12 Grijsoord-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

5.

A12 Grijsoord-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

6.

A12 Grijsoord-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

7.

A12 Grijsoord-7 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

8.

A12 Grijsoord-8 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr



*A12 Arnhem/Velp*
These pictures were taken from a local highway overpass between Arnhem and Velp.
1. 

A12 Velp-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

2.

A12 Velp-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

3.

A12 Velp-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

4.

A12 Velp-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

5.

A12 Velp-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## bogdymol

ChrisZwolle said:


>


Creepy sign :skull:


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## Wuppeltje

ChrisZwolle said:


> *A5 West Amsterdam Skyway*
> 
> Progress on A5-A10 in Amsterdam.
> 
> photo's by fotomix


Can't wait until this highways has been finished. It is going to look really nice.


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## essendon bombers

G'day all,

I visited the Netherlands on recent holiday to Europe. Even though I did not drive there, I took the train, public transport and walked my bloody legs off. I strayed off the beaten track when autosnelweg was nearby for a photo. Also, I got some photos from the train as it went over the autosnelweg; was particularly happy with my timing.


























These three are from the Amsterdam-Utrecht train as it passed over the A9, A10 and alongside the A2.


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## essendon bombers

Think two photos failed in my original post.


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## essendon bombers

These two are from the train Amsterdam-Schiphol of the A4 and A9 interchange.


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## essendon bombers

And a few from Den Haag near the end of the A12.


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Did you like the Netherlands? 

Here's my newest video, A27 northbound from interchange Hooipolder to interchange Everdingen.

map:


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## essendon bombers

Yes I love the Netherlands, would like to go back and visit again one day.

I stayed in Amsterdam and Rotterdam during my stay and visited Den Haag, Brussels, Utrecht, Delft on my daytrips. Loved Rotterdam for its architecture and its very interesting buildings, some reminded me of aspects about buildings in my own city Melbourne. The Cubehouse in Rotterdam, although not really practical for living, looks really cool!!

I really like the Dutch streetscape which helps to give the nation its definition. Amsterdam is in a small select group of cities (Venice and San Francisco are others...) that from my point of view, have very unique streetscapes. Come to Melbourne, the streetscape here could be Sydney (the trams distinguish Melbourne from Sydney) and Australian and NZ streetscapes are similar.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A2 's-Hertogenbosch - Eindhoven*

Good news, the minister of infrastructure and environment has signed the final record of decision for the widening of A2 from 4 to 6 lanes. The final record of decision has some relatively minor adjustments compared to the design-record of decision, mostly concerning noise abatement issues. The ROD will be open to appeal at the Council of State from early September. The widening will commence late 2011, with a phased completion in 2012 and 2013. This is the final link of the 120 kilometer motorway from Amsterdam to Eindhoven to be widened to at least 6 lanes.

map:


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## BigMike90

Intense accident (unfortunately 2 passed away) yesterday on the A1 near Bathmen, causing a 18km traffic jam from Apeldoorn/intersection Beekbergen to Bathmen.

Somehow this tend to happen on this strech of the A1, a couple of times a year the whole region is stuck because of a large accident on this road.


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## Slagathor

Jesus, how did that even happen? 

Right with the windshield into the pillar, so unlucky. hno:


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## ChrisZwolle

I don't know, there is a sufficient crash barrier between the roadway and the bridge pillar.


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## mgk920

ChrisZwolle said:


> I don't know, there is a sufficient crash barrier between the roadway and the bridge pillar.


The highway guys here in the USA no longer 'bury' the facing ends of guard rails - they were found to often turn into, for lack of a better term, launching ramps. Now, they place devices on their facing ends that are designed to 'catch' errant vehicles and bring them to gradual, much safer stops.

Here, it looks to me like that vehicle was indeed 'launched' by that guard rail and that that launching imparted a spin on it such that it hit the bridge structure square in the windshield.

Also, here in the USA, if the guard rail is instead a concrete barrier, either they will attach a similar steel device to its facing end or block it with a series of sand-filled barrels. Further, there are instances here in the Appleton, WI area of the only protection for overhead bridge and other concrete structures being series of sand-filled barrels.

A few local examples:
A wrap around guardrail designed to catch errant vehicles (WI 441 in SE Appleton, WI):
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=...=ohC-VtbWI_OdKauPk7eHNA&cbp=12,78.13,,0,-4.13

Sand barrels protecting the concrete base of this median sign (US 10/WI 441 in Menasha, WI, just outside of Appleton, WI):
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=...=VLpdV9j8Y_wArPSHvmhxaQ&cbp=12,331.85,,0,0.44

Typical 'catcher' on the facing end of a guardrail (westbound US 10/WI 441 at WI 47/Appleton Rd in Menasha, WI, just outside of Appleton, WI):
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=...rcYsEeelW0kLRoiMZ49CZw&cbp=12,298.58,,0,-1.49

Mike


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## ChrisZwolle

Some parking fee statistics:

the 10 largest municipalities got a revenue of € 300 million in parking fees. Out of those € 300 million, € 116 million is profit. Amsterdam has the biggest share; € 128 million revenue, out of which € 83 million is profit. Profit is only made in some of the biggest cities, other larger municipalities, such as Rotterdam, Tilburg, Groningen and Nijmegen only got a break-even. 

The total 2010 parking fee revenue in the Netherlands was € 566 million, an increase of 40% in 5 years. This means the average passenger car in the Netherlands pays € 75 per year in parking fees. This is € 214 per year on average in the 10 largest municipalities.


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## Des

ChrisZwolle said:


> Some parking fee statistics:
> 
> the 10 largest municipalities got a revenue of € 300 million in parking fees. Out of those € 300 million, € 116 million is profit. Amsterdam has the biggest share; € 128 million revenue, out of which € 83 million is profit. Profit is only made in some of the biggest cities, other larger municipalities, such as Rotterdam, Tilburg, Groningen and Nijmegen only got a break-even.
> 
> The total 2010 parking fee revenue in the Netherlands was € 566 million, an increase of 40% in 5 years. This means the average passenger car in the Netherlands pays € 75 per year in parking fees. This is € 214 per year on average in the 10 largest municipalities.


Amsterdam parking rates are outrageous, in a large part of the center you pay € 5 per hour, 7 days a week from 9am til 12pm. And even in living areas far outside the center you still have to pay at least € 3 per hour. No way back... I'm even afraid the rates will rise further in coming years. Soon other parts of West and Buitenveldert will have paid parking as well.

http://www.cition.nl/main.php?asset_action=download&action=asset&obj_id=227773444


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## Suburbanist

Des said:


> Amsterdam parking rates are outrageous, in a large part of the center you pay € 5 per hour, 7 days a week from 9am til 12pm. And even in living areas far outside the center you still have to pay at least € 3 per hour. No way back... I'm even afraid the rates will rise further in coming years. Soon other parts of West and Buitenveldert will have paid parking as well.
> 
> http://www.cition.nl/main.php?asset_action=download&action=asset&obj_id=227773444


Paid parking sometimes spread out like a tumor out of control. This happen because in a city with neighborhoods connected one with another whenever an area becomes paid parking, the immediate vicinity suffers with people scooping up space for that, and they demand paid parking (+ resident cheap permits) to curb the problem.

I have not much against paid parking, if they use the proceeds to build more underground parking, not to cash in the municipality treasury. They are building something like 3.000 new parking spaces around the central areas of Amsterdam, coupled with the new Noordzuidlijn subway. Let's hope that improves the situation.

I have no illusions that it is impossible for everyone to park within the Canal Belt, but at least they should have plenty of underground parking around.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Bussum - Eemnes*

Very good news, all appeals against the operation of shoulder running along A1 in both directions between Bussum and interchange Eemnes have been withdrawn one day before the Council of State would have made a judgment. Rijkswaterstaat and an activist group apparently reached compromise, but no details are known at this time. This mean the implementation of shoulder running can proceed and is likely saved from a 1-year delay. 

The A1 runs through "Het Gooi", an upscale region composed of various small municipalities with some of the most expensive housing in the Netherlands. The A1 is one of the most saturated motorways of the Netherlands; it carries 110 000 vehicles per day on 2x2 lanes. 

map:


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## snowdog

Good news on the A2 upgrade and the A1 shoulder lanes!
I wonder what RWS promised to the eco morons though ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some statistics about Dutch motorways. This example features the A1 motorway between Amersfoort and Hilversum. The motorway has 2x2 lanes and carries just over 100 000 vehicles per day. 

1500 vehicles per hour, per lane is about the critical level. Of course more is possible, but then the level of service will drop significantly, impeding traffic flow and worsening traffic safety. The critical level when shoulder running should go into operation as a third traffic lane is at 3000 vehicles per hour. 

You can see here the critical level is met or exceeded for 12 - 13 hours per day in each direction on A1. In 2013, this motorwa will be widened to 2x4 lanes. With such figures, it is obvious one additional lane each way will not be a solid solution.


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## Suburbanist

^^ One interesting aspect of that his how peak times are pushed in a shorter interval. In US, 5am is already peak in many metro areas, and the afternoon peak goes well past 19h.

In other words: as I can attest from living here, Dutch don't work before 9am, usually, in large numbers, and they have dinner too early  .Kidding.


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## lafreak84

I don't know what idiot decided to close the A15 to do some "housework" or whatever it is that they're doing but the A15 from Brielle through Rotterdam towards Sliedrecht is in a complete LOCK! I think they said some 40km continuous traffic jam on that route! Absolute craziness, it will take hours to get traffic going again. Not to mention the side effects - A16, A4 and A20 in lockdown! Lucky for me I travel to city for work, the highway is locked in a direction towards Maasvlakte.

Also, the day before yesterday I went to Belgium and when I was coming back home in the middle of the night (2AM), from South the A16 in Dordrecht was closed due to road works with one small sign *before* the exit (via N3). How the hell am I suppose to know how to bypass A16. I was driving for an hour in Dordrecht because I couldn't cross the river and the navi kept taking me back to the highway. Some truck driver told me to go back, take the exit and follow N3 towards A15, then back to Rotterdam following Europoort. :nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15 Ressen - Zevenaar*

The financing for the construction of A15 between interchange Ressen and future interchange Zevenaar (A12) has been completed. The new connection is 15 kilometers long and will cost € 1.1 billion, or € 73 million per kilometer. It runs through rural areas, and a bridge across the Pannerdensch Canal (Rhine River) will be constructed. The new motorway will be a tolled motorway, and completion is slated for 2018.

It is absolutely beyond me why this connection is so damn expensive.


----------



## aswnl

ChrisZwolle said:


> It is absolutely beyond me why this connection is so damn expensive.


Direct costs will be around M€ 25-50 for the A12 interchange, and M€ 50-100 for the riverbridge. 15 km of motorway will cost between M€ 200-350, without any overpasses or junctions. That makes perhaps M€ 500, without unforeseen reservation, risc calculation and environmental measures. I think Md€ 1,1 isn't that strange at all.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's more expensive than the Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere project on a per kilometer-basis... And I think a simple 2x2 motorway with a river bridge is incomparable to a massive widening with two large tunnels, a huge aqueduct and a new 12 lane bridge...

I do realize that the A15 will need at least two bridges over the railway lines (Betuwe Route and the regular railway from Arnhem to Oberhausen). If you include the widening of A12 it will get better. However, I would still think it should cost not much more than € 750 million.


----------



## bogdymol

aswnl said:


> Direct costs will be around M€ 25-50 for the A12 interchange, and M€ 50-100 for the riverbridge. *15 km of motorway will cost between M€ 200-350, without any overpasses or junctions.* That makes perhaps M€ 500, without unforeseen reservation, risc calculation and environmental measures. I think Md€ 1,1 isn't that strange at all.


That's way too much...

How will this motorway be tolled? Will they install toll booths? I guess that many people will still use the old A12 - Arnhem bypass - A325 route in this case.


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## ChrisZwolle

Render of A15:


----------



## Ni3lS

snowdog said:


> The computer of a GTR can be reprogrammed, if you count the lines he passes in how many time you'll notice he isn't driving faster than about 205 kph, which is hardly so fast for an autoweg, I find the 100+ kph at the start of the vid in the residential area FAR more dangerous, 200+ on an expressway is hardly dangerous.
> 
> Dumb of him to record himself.


Hardly dangerous? Did you see the dam on the right? The turn? If you're going that fast and someone else on the other side of the turn who you can't see decides to pass another car with 105 km/h, you're fucked. It's dumb, dangerous and retarded all together. This idiot should be prosecuted.


----------



## Suburbanist

>


This snapshot shocks me. There in no longer an A325 direction south to Nijmegen, and me expectation of a full highway linking Nijmegen to ARnhem is gone.


----------



## bogdymol

ChrisZwolle said:


>


Now I see why is this motorway so expensive... why is there such a long viaduct leading to the bridge? AFAIK NL dosen't have a problem with flooding since almost all rivers were turned intro controled channels.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> This snapshot shocks me. There in no longer an A325 direction south to Nijmegen, and me expectation of a full highway linking Nijmegen to ARnhem is gone.


A325 south of interchange Ressen has been downgraded to a 50 km/h city road.

video:







bogdymol said:


> Now I see why is this motorway so expensive... why is there such a long viaduct leading to the bridge? AFAIK NL dosen't have a problem with flooding since almost all rivers were turned intro controled channels.


This section is within the floodplain of the Pannerdensch Canal (de-facto a branch of the Rhine River). The cable-stayed bridge is not as big as it looks on this render. The normal summer-level river is only 180 meters wide.


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## snowdog

Ni3lS said:


> Hardly dangerous? Did you see the dam on the right? The turn? If you're going that fast and someone else on the other side of the turn who you can't see decides to pass another car with 105 km/h, you're fucked. It's dumb, dangerous and retarded all together. This idiot should be prosecuted.


What are you talking about ?

On the other side of the turn? What turn ? It's an expressway, nearly perfectly straight...

I stay by my point, what he does the first 18 seconds is MANY times more dangerous than what he does on the expresway, a nearly perfectly straight piece of road, barely any traffic, he only passes a couple of cars and none in groups of 2 ( so highly unlikely someone will turn out in front of him to overtake). Going 50 kph to fast in built up area's is FAR worse than going 100 kph to fast on motorways and expresways imo.


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## Jeskaj

Will the A18 change it's number to A15, because there are now plans to have two junctions on the A12?


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## ChrisZwolle

Technically A18 is _rijksweg_ 15.


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## Jeskaj

I know, that's why I asked about it.


----------



## Road_UK

bogdymol said:


> That's way too much...
> 
> How will this motorway be tolled? Will they install toll booths? I guess that many people will still use the old A12 - Arnhem bypass - A325 route in this case.


They are still thinking about it, but it's likely to be French style toll booths. This would mean they'd accept major fuel cards as well for payment, like Eurotrafic, Routex, Shell, Esso etc etc.


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## bozata90

I guess it is overpriced, because it will be tolled (is it a PPP contract?).


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## ChrisZwolle

It is a PPP-project, but only partially. Right now, the national government is willing to pay € 385 million, the regional governments will pay € 370 something million, but the total costs are just over € 1 billion for this 15 kilometer motorway. Hence, the missing funding will have to be provided by tolls.

If the toll is set for € 8 trucks, and € 2 passenger cars, the approximate annual toll revenue is around € 45 million per year. So, the missing funding can be repaid in about 7 years, which would indicate the new motorway could become toll free after that time (i.e. the year 2025).


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## aswnl

ChrisZwolle said:


> If the toll is set for € 8 trucks, and € 2 passenger cars, the approximate annual toll revenue is around € 45 million per year. So, the missing funding can be repaid in about 7 years


Make it 15-20 years. It's a commercial loan...


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## Road_UK

ChrisZwolle said:


> It is a PPP-project, but only partially. Right now, the national government is willing to pay € 385 million, the regional governments will pay € 370 something million, but the total costs are just over € 1 billion for this 15 kilometer motorway. Hence, the missing funding will have to be provided by tolls.
> 
> If the toll is set for € 8 trucks, and € 2 passenger cars, the approximate annual toll revenue is around € 45 million per year. So, the missing funding can be repaid in about 7 years, which would indicate the new motorway could become toll free after that time (i.e. the year 2025).


Once it's functioning as a tollroad, it will always function as a tollroad, because why lose out on a good thing when by 2025 nobody will know any better. Plus, it may function as a congestion relieve road, just like the M6 Toll in England. There are calls to scrap the Dartford tolls now, that will never happen neither....


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## Ni3lS

snowdog said:


> What are you talking about ?
> 
> On the other side of the turn? What turn ? It's an expressway, nearly perfectly straight...
> 
> I stay by my point, what he does the first 18 seconds is MANY times more dangerous than what he does on the expresway, a nearly perfectly straight piece of road, barely any traffic, he only passes a couple of cars and none in groups of 2 ( so highly unlikely someone will turn out in front of him to overtake). Going 50 kph to fast in built up area's is FAR worse than going 100 kph to fast on motorways and expresways imo.


You don't know that before you hit the gas pedal now do you? And when you find out it's mostly too late. I agree with you that the first part is more dangerous than the second. Though that's only because there was almost nobody on the road. But that's something you can't rely on. And yes there is a curve in the road [at the end], watch it again. 

And kph is something different than km/h LOL.


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## RubenT

Ni3lS said:


> And kph is something different than km/h LOL.


Is it?


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## Ni3lS

Well I guess not. Though the normal way to say it is just ''km/h''. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KPH


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## Rebasepoiss

^^ *the right way to say it is "km/h". The abbreviation for kilometre is "km" not "k". "K" stands for "kilo" which is a prefix and not a measurement unit by itself.


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## Road_UK

Ni3lS said:


> Well I guess not. Though the normal way to say it is just ''km/h''.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KPH


KPH is mostly used in Canada, UK and Ireland. They have done it their way. It's still MPH and not MLS/H....


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## Road_UK

Anyway. Lets have some pictures. This is on my delivery trip from the UK to Mo-i-Rana in northern Norway. Travelling through the UK, France, Belgium, Holland (stopped over in Schiedam to see relatives, then went to Sneek to pick my granddad up, he wanted to come to Norway) , Germany, Denmark, Sweden and finally Norway. 

Here is the Dutch section of my journey......

Going past Amsterdam Airport









Approaching Amsterdam Orbital A10









Amsterdam Orbital A10









After Amsterdam heading northbound towards the province of Friesland









Afsluitdijk Monument









More to follow....


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## Ni3lS

Nice. Your granddad lives in Sneek? I grew up in Friesland, it's a pretty province. I've had my license since august last year, though I still haven't crossed the afsluitdijk by myself. I'm going to this summer I think


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## Road_UK

Ni3lS said:


> Nice. Your granddad lives in Sneek? I grew up in Friesland, it's a pretty province. I've had my license since august last year, though I still haven't crossed the afsluitdijk by myself. I'm going to this summer I think


He used to live in Sneek, he actually died a few months ago. I partly grew up there, but now live in Austria and the UK....


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## ChrisZwolle

What kind of work makes you drive from the UK to Mo i Rana?


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## Road_UK

ChrisZwolle said:


> What kind of work makes you drive from the UK to Mo i Rana?


My job is to deliver anything that needs to go from the UK to mainland Europe fast. And from Europe back to the UK... and everything in a Sprinter van. I go anywhere between Finland and Portugal and Greece and Norway...

On this particular job they needed train parts. If a factory stands still because they don't have the parts, that's where we come in. In a van we carry up to 5 europallets and 1500 kg weight... This is European Express only - no national courier service, so I'm on that ferry 2-3 times a week. If I'm only going to Germany or France I can do 4 trips a week. I actually partly live in Mayrhofen, Austria - so as much as I can I try and do UK to Italy via Mont Blanc, home the weekend and back to UK via Germany and Belgium. Shipping port is always Calais....

I've uploaded a pic of my van in the Britain thread....


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## g.spinoza

Fascinating. If you still don't know the Clinched Highways Mapping project I bet you can rise fast in the ranking


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## Road_UK

g.spinoza said:


> Fascinating. If you still don't know the Clinched Highways Mapping project I bet you can rise fast in the ranking


I've had a look at it and I'll give it a good go... It's be a hell of a lot of work...:lol:


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## sotonsi

Please do, the amount of effort I put into making the files for the Norwegian E roads was rather large and one person has 3% clinched near Oslo and that's it. A trip to Mo i Rana would mean that a lot more of my hard work is used!


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## Road_UK

sotonsi said:


> Please do, the amount of effort I put into making the files for the Norwegian E roads was rather large and one person has 3% clinched near Oslo and that's it. A trip to Mo i Rana would mean that a lot more of my hard work is used!


I'll get onto it then. On my way up I did most of it through Sweden, and crossed the border before Mo, but on my way down I went all the way through Norway, passed Trondheim and Oslo and headed towards Gothenburg...


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## aswnl

That trip must have been at least 3,5 years ago.
Pictures don't show recent "spitsstroken" (=hard shoulder running sections)


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## Road_UK

aswnl said:


> That trip must have been at least 3,5 years ago.
> Pictures don't show recent "spitsstroken" (=hard shoulder running sections)


2007 as you can see on my Switzerland vignette on my windscreen.


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## Ni3lS

Road_UK said:


> He used to live in Sneek, he actually died a few months ago. I partly grew up there, but now live in Austria and the UK....


Ok. 

Interesting job. About the clinched highway project. I signed up a couple of days ago but still haven't gotten an email from the admin to verify my account.


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## bogdymol

Ni3lS said:


> Ok.
> 
> Interesting job. About the clinched highway project. I signed up a couple of days ago but still haven't gotten an email from the admin to verify my account.


Did you send your .list file at that e-mail address?


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## Ni3lS

No.. How do you make that? Thought that I was supposed to make that after I signed up..


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## g.spinoza

^^ No, you send them an ASCII file named yournickname.list with the list of your clinched highways, and they will process it and put the results on the website


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## Ni3lS

Oh.. And sorry for asking but how do I create such a list. In what kind of program? Have never heard of an ASCII file..


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## sotonsi

Use Notepad, Wordpad or similar, and when saving, change where it says "Text file (.TXT)" or "Rich Text file (.RTF)" to "All Files (.*)" and in the name bit put <yourusername>.list

Instructions are here. Emailing doesn't come until #5, where you send your .list file in.


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## g.spinoza

Ni3lS said:


> Oh.. And sorry for asking but how do I create such a list. In what kind of program? Have never heard of an ASCII file..


Info on how to create the list are on the website:
http://cmap.m-plex.com/getstarted.php

ASCII file is simply a plain text file, you can create it with Windows Notepad


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## Suburbanist

Clinched highways is too annoying to operate. When/if they implement some clickable online feed, I'll register my American, European and South American clinched highways


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## Agnette

A28, Assen - Groningen, NL, 23 Mar 2011, HD720:


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## woutero

^^ Nice video. Did you take the wrong exit, or was it a deliberate detour through Groningen?


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## Agnette

Yes, I took the wrong exit, because my TomTom gave me wrong instruction.


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## kosimodo

^^ das raar! 

Mine is working right?! Have a good listen on when you have to take the next exit will help!


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## ChrisZwolle

*A10 Amsterdam*

Check out these FANTASTIC renders of the A10/A5 project in Amsterdam.


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## ChrisZwolle

:cheers: 

*A10 current:*









*A10 future:*


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## bogdymol

ChrisZwolle said:


> :cheers:
> 
> *A10 current:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *A10 future:*


*Now that's a proper motorway widening! * :yes: :cheers:


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## Agnette

Interesting place on A10 in Amsterdam. Is it abandoned project?


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## mgk920

Agnette said:


> Interesting place on A10 in Amsterdam. Is it abandoned project?


That looks almost like the overcrossing shown at about 0:20 on the third of the video clips that Chris has a few posts up.

Mike


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## da_scotty

I've had a lecture about this lately, and they build this with the A10-widening in mind, a rare examples of thinking ahead in the Netherlands


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## Agnette

mgk920 said:


> That looks almost like the overcrossing shown at about 0:20 on the third of the video clips that Chris has a few posts up.
> Mike


Thank You Mike, You are right, it is the same place (just shot from Chris post):


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## ChrisZwolle

da_scotty said:


> rare examples of thinking ahead in the Netherlands


That strongly depends on which period you're talking about. 

For instance, the earliest motorway construction in the 1930's did not leave room for future expansion. As the Netherlands was among the first countries in the world do gain experience with motorways, nobody was to blame. This continued throughout the 1950's and early 1960's. However, from the mid 1960's they began to implement space reservations, which continued into the 1970's and early 1980's, after which massive motorway construction ceased. 

Most new or replaced structures in the 1990's (mostly new bridges and a few new motorways) did not have space for future expansion. However, this was simply policy, back then the rule was not to facilitate any more traffic, and problems would go away themselves. Boy, do we know better now. From the early 2000's, most new structures began to implement space reservations again (most notably along A4 between Burgerveen and Den Haag). 

Many space reservations from the late 1960's and 1970's are now graciously used for motorway widenings. For instance the widening of A28 and A50 used existing space, which saved us hundreds of millions of euros, much more than they ever spent on the extra space 40 years ago. The A1 widening east of Deventer will also use existing space reservations in the median.


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## Jeskaj

I've noticed they've changed destinations to Rotterdam instead of The Hague and I've never noticed Alkmaar as destination on the A8.

Very nice renders, I've enjoyed watching them.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Newly widened sector of A12 east of Utrecht:














































photos by rikthoff.


----------



## Road_UK

From where to where is this widened section exactly?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Only from interchange Lunetten (A27) to exit Bunnik, about 4 kilometers. It was widened from 6 to 8 lanes in 10 days. It's the first phase of the widening project of A12 between Utrecht and Arnhem. It will mainly serve as a buffer so that traffic on other motorways won't get blocked.


----------



## Road_UK

Why only Arnhem? From what I gather, that bit between Arnhem towards the border is becoming a nightmare both ways....


----------



## Slagathor

ChrisZwolle said:


> The last 130 km/h trials will commence today on the following motorways:
> 
> *- A17/A58 Moerdijk (interchange Klaverpolder) - Bergen op Zoom (interchange Zoomland), 35 km*
> - A32 Steenwijk - Heerenveen-Zuid, 19 km
> - A37 Hoogeveen – Klazienaveen, 35 km
> *- A58 Bergen op Zoom (exit Rilland) - Vlissingen (exit Rithem), 44 km*


:banana: That's, like, 75% of the way when I visit my parents.


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> Here's an impression of the depressed section:


That's also what I'm wondering about, they build the asphalt for 2x3 lanes, but they make 1 direction 2 lanes... Why don't they open it as 3 lanes from start, sure it might not be needed or even cause problems at the end, but driving with 3 lanes is much more relaxed, you don't have the problem with trucks overtaking as much and you have more space if something goes wrong.

Simply make it go from 2 lanes to 3 to 2, there are no sliproads/exits in that bit so it shouldn't cause any traffic jam unless the 2 lane bit is congested anyway, but motorists will appreciate having 3 lanes to drive on.


----------



## Agnette

Assen -> Donkerbroek:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Progress of the second A50 Waal River Bridge:









by fotomix


----------



## Agnette

"Somewhere" in Fryslân:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Highest road in the Netherlands, approximately 850 meters above sea level:


----------



## bogdymol

^^ :banana: NL has mountains :banana:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saba


----------



## CNGL

Unbelieveable. I always though that highest point in the Netherlands was just over 200 meters.


----------



## Coccodrillo

It's in the Netherlands, but not in Europe. The highest point of the Netherlands located in Europe is the Vaalsberg at 321 m (by the way, it would be nice to see some photos or videos of this hilly area of the NL).

Europe is full of these overseas territories, full of strange legal status (like being part of a particular state but not of the UE).


----------



## Road_UK

Coccodrillo said:


> It's in the Netherlands, but not in Europe. The highest point of the Netherlands located in Europe is the Vaalsberg at 321 m (by the way, it would be nice to see some photos or videos of this hilly area of the NL).


I'll find some and put them on the border thread. Vaalserberg is not only the highest point with a dazzling 351 m (I live in Mayrhofen, 650 m with mountains up to 3500 m in this area) but it's also where the Netherlands, Germany and Belgium come together, with a watchtower on the Belgium side overlooking the Dutch hills, Belgian Ardennes and the German city of Aachen.


----------



## julesstoop

Not even 351, put something like 321


----------



## Road_UK

Yeah, 321...:cheers:


----------



## kubam4a1

Agnette, would you be so kind to add speed limits feature to your video? The Dutch infrastructure shown there seems interesting.


----------



## aswnl

kubam4a1 said:


> Agnette, would you be so kind to add speed limits feature to your video? The Dutch infrastructure shown there seems interesting.


If you should think the road markings have anything to do with the speed limit: some traffic safety officers think that's the case, but everyone knows there's a bunch of different speedlimits known to be coupled to all types of roadmarking.

Typical characteristics of modern Dutch roadmarkings:
* dashed lines: do not exceed this line ! You could end up in the ditch
* continous lines in the middle: if you get irritated after 10-20 km of overtaking prohibition, just think that they are dashed...


----------



## zwanneman2

Coccodrillo said:


> It's in the Netherlands, but not in Europe. The highest point of the Netherlands located in Europe is the Vaalsberg at 321 m...


A friend from Aachen always joked that their city bus goes *down* to our highest point.:lol:


----------



## Attus

OFF
The highest place in Denmark is the top of the pillar of Store Belt bridge


----------



## SeanT

..and the highest natural area is placed by Ejner Bavnehøj "Møllehøj" 170,86 m.
...and it has been known since 2005.:lol:
Storebælts bridge is 254 m


----------



## woutero

Well, those hills in Limburg are nothing to get too excited about. Although they do offer som great challenges on a bicycle.

Here are some images from Streetview:

A79 near Valkenburg:









Near Epen:









More exciting is that Google expanded their live traffic view coverage to a lot of European countries, including The Netherlands:


----------



## ArthurK

ChrisZwolle said:


> Highest road in the Netherlands, approximately 850 meters above sea level:


That's Windwardside, at 400 meters above sea level. I think the highest road is around 500 meter. There's definitely no road to the top of Mount Scenery (877 m), I know from my own experiences. 

There is one road that connects the villages, which called is _The Road_ (how easy). It has very sharp curves and steep slopes, but they are very proud of this road since they've built it themselves.

The traffic signs on Saba are a mix of Dutch and American styles, and are sometimes a little bit contradicting:








Saba FTW! :banana:


----------



## bogdymol

ArthurK said:


> The traffic signs on Saba are a mix of Dutch and American styles, and are sometimes a little bit contradicting:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saba FTW! :banana:


What happened to that sign?


----------



## julesstoop

It's getting old, so it's starting to become gray.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They're working very hard to get A74 finished before the 2012 Floriade (a flower exposition). There seems to be significant portions which are already paved:


----------



## bogdymol

^^ I think it can be completed before that flower exposition. In Romania A1 between Arad and Timisoara looks similar and they want to open it on December 1st.


----------



## da_scotty

bogdymol said:


> What happened to that sign?


The sign can be "closed" by placing a grey pannel in front of it, only one half op the pannel fell of!

This also explains the parking allowance / prohibited mixxup


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think it mainly depends on progress in Germany. It won't be of any use without the German section being completed. While Germany commenced their part of the works somewhat earlier, Germans are known for slow progress. Remind that this part of A74 is only U/C for just over half a year, including the winter season.


----------



## Agnette

kubam4a1 said:


> Agnette, would you be so kind to add speed limits feature to your video? The Dutch infrastructure shown there seems interesting.


I do apologize, but it almost impossible, because I am/was just "tourist" in the Netherlands. 
There is a lot of signs on the roads and You can see almost all of them in my video. For general information about speed limits in Nederland look at the photo below:


----------



## Road_UK

^^

On some motorways speed limits are upgraded to 130 km/h now.
Could that be the reason that somebody tried to bite a chunk of that road sign in that photo above?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Arnhem*

The Council of State has rejected all appeals against the widening of the A12 motorway around Arnhem. The motorway will be widened from 4 to 6 lanes between interchange Waterberg (A50) and Velperbroek (N325/A348). Bridge replacement already began, and a bridge will be demolished this weekend, not requiring a carmageddon closure. Additional widening works can now proceed as planned. The A12 carries 94 000 vehicles per day.


----------



## Agnette

Fryslan roads, 28 Mar 2011:






Map


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A20 in Rotterdam is flooded.


----------



## pilspaus

Yes that coused pretty much problems on the Rotterdam ring, those showers rained themselves out by hardly move an inch, almost impossible to handle all the rainwater then


----------



## Road_UK

They are having similar problems in Bavaria at the moment. According to Bayern3 anyway. (to me only the BEST radio station in the world!)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Utrecht - Everdingen*

The next few photos were mainly taken for the signage, but they also show the progress of the widening of A2 to 2x4 lanes between interchanges Everdingen and Oudenrijn (and vice versa).


Northbound direction:


1. 3 through lanes at interchange Everdingen.









2. New 4-lane section









3. This motorway will feature 4 lanes in each direction between interchanges Oudenrijn and Deil for a distance of 26 kilometers. North of it is a 29 kilometer section with 10 lanes.









4. The old Lek Bridge to the right. It is currently not used and ends in fields. It will be demolished because costs to keep it up are too high and the bridge has little architectural value (there are dozens of arch bridges of this type in the Netherlands)









5. Construction is currently mainly around Nieuwegein (a suburb of Utrecht)









6. The Netherlands is one of the few (maybe the only) countries that feature distances integrated on overhead signage.









7. A very large overhead sign. Criticism includes the "floating" road numbers instead of being positioned at the baseline.









8. A VMS showing driving times to important interchanges in the region. If you go straight ahead, you'll follow a 10-lane motorway, if you turn off, you'll follow an 8-lane motorway. Every single motorway in Utrecht province has/will be widened.










Southbound direction:


9. Another new overhead sign has been installed. The 5th lane becomes an exit to Nieuwegein.









10. This temporary lane goes across the old shoulder, most of the roadway was of this quality before the widening.









11. Construction at the Nieuwegein southbound entrance.









12. Sign indicating the Jan Blankenbrug (bridge), crossing the Lek River. The bridge already had sufficient space for 4 through lanes each way. They are actually two separate bridges. 









13. Coming up to interchange Everdingen, where there are 3 through lanes. A large amount of traffic exits here towards Breda. Up ahead is another 20 kilometer section that has been widened from 4 to 8 lanes.


----------



## Road_UK

I've got mixed feelings about these falling arrows being displayed now. They say it makes it clearer and safer, and I have always found the German road signage efficient and clear, and the Dutch are copying their system. I guess it is because I'm used to the old Dutch system.

What do you prefer, arrows up or down?


----------



## Suburbanist

Road_UK said:


> What do you prefer, arrows up or down?


Arrows up, because the whole scheme is easier to visualize if you are at an odd position on a wide (4 or more) carriageway.


----------



## da_scotty

The only thing is that the new scheme has to become mature! There is no consistent set of design criteria yet, the people at autosnelwegen.net get headaches from the inconsistency!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

While shoulder running gradually becomes more common in Europe after the first Dutch experiments in the 1990's (Belgium, France, Italy, Switzerland, Germany, United Kingdom), there is also another variant that does include a physical widening. It's called a "plusstrook" in Dutch, which is basically left shoulder running. These additional lanes are generally narrow, and usually have a width restriction of 2.0 or 2.5 meters. Some are wider and could be turned into a general purpose lane.

These three photos show the system on the A28 motorway through Zwolle. It was constructed in 2005/2006.


A28 Zwolle shoulder running-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A28 Zwolle shoulder running-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A28 Zwolle shoulder running-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## -Pino-

Road_UK said:


> According to Bayern3 anyway. (to me only the BEST radio station in the world!)


Matter of taste. To me, Bayern 3 is "schon wieder falsche Sendung".
(you should sing that to the tune of their omni-present traffic update announcement jingle)


----------



## Road_UK

-Pino- said:


> Matter of taste. To me, Bayern 3 is "schon wieder falsche Sendung".
> (you should sing that to the tune of their omni-present traffic update announcement jingle)


:lol:


I just did...
It's that Baaaayerndrei jingle that zips through my head, but I always have it on from Woergl (Austria) up to between Frankfurt and Cologne on the A3. Traffic info is great, music is great and the dj's are great. I used to enjoy OE3 in Austria, but they always play the same music, commercials are irritating and I basically don't like it anymore. In Tirol I listen to Live Radio instead.

UK: BBC R2
France: Nostalgie or 107.7 Autoroute FM, favourite version in the south from Autoroutes du Sud de la France. But Corfiroute and APRR are also ok. SANEF is ok in the daytime, but at night the broadcast always gets interrupted by some recorded voice. (Attention Attention)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A27 Utrecht*

The widening of the northbound carriageway of A27 east of Utrecht is on track. The roadway will be widened from 4 to 6 lanes, bringing the total to 10 lanes (6 NB, 4 SB). Around 2020, this section will be widened to 2x7 lanes.


----------



## Suburbanist

Gereke said:


> Emmen? That would be crazy. The importance of Emmen is like zero. Zwolle would be enough to sign.


Emmen is the gateway to A31 - Germany and all Nordic countries by road access. So it is not of "zero" importance


----------



## Gereke

But that is no reason we should sign it in Utrecht. There are a lot of routes to the northern part of Germany, via Emmen is just one of them. I should have said that the importance of Emmen in Utrecht is zero.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

VMS on the A10 beltway of Amsterdam. It shows congestion on two routes towards Schiphol Airport. No congestion today.

A10 GRIP by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Palance

The A20 near Rotterdam is closed for 1 week. Some pictures of the works and the abandoned road (OK, abandoned in 1 direction only  )





































Some kilometres more to the west:


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## ChrisZwolle

Nice photos. I like the Rijkswaterstaat approach of short and intense road works instead of roadworks that drag out for months or even years. Not many countries can completely renovate 10 km of a six-lane motorway in two weeks. A20 carries 180 000 vehicles per day and is one of the busiest six-lane motorways in Europe.


----------



## bogdymol

What happens with the traffic from the opposite direction? Where is the detour?


----------



## spacetweek

ChrisZwolle, am I right in saying that the 4 motorways currently under construction in the Netherlands are:

A4 Bergen Op Zoom - Dinteloord
A4 Delft - Rotterdam (has this started?)
A5 Amsterdam
A74 Venlo

Is there ever a plan to complete the A4-A29 segment west of Oud Beijerland?


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Technically the two A4-sections are not U/C yet, but will be by the end of this year. 

The Delft - Rotterdam section has been green-lit by the Council of State. No legal process can stop this now. The Bergen op Zoom - Dinteloord section is awaiting Council of State judgment. If everything goes smoothly, construction can begin in October. 

A5 and A74 have been under construction for over a year now. A5 will be completed in 2013, A74 in early 2012, they progress extremely fast there, having outpaced the Germans who started their construction almost 5 months earlier. 

There are currently no real plans for A4-A29, though space has been reserved in the spatial planning programme of (I believe) 2005. It would be quite costly, likely requiring two tunnels or one long tunnel. I don't think we will see any construction before 2020 as all funding up until that year has been distributed over the numerous projects. Not only the missing link would need to be constructed, the antiquated Haringvliet Bridge would need replacement too (just north of the N59 interchange).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I shot a number of pictures today with Timon of the A4 motorway just south of Amsterdam, where it features 10 lanes. It was the first 2x5 motorway in the Netherlands, though the 10-lane section is no more than 8 kilometers. The A2 2x5 section is much longer (25 km).

1. The left lane is technically a peak hour lane. It's usually closed outside rush hour. Traffic volumes here are not exceptionally high, approximately 190 000 vehicles per day. It's rarely congested, except when there are incidents, or traffic jams on nearby motorways.

A4-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

2. Traffic is flowing smoothly around noon.

A4-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

3. A new interchange is under construction in the distance, where a new N201 alignment will be opened. There will be a new parallel system, with 2x2 additional lanes, bringing this cross-section to 14 lanes.

A4-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

4. Ahead is the rest area Den Ruyven Hoek, probably the largest rest area in the Netherlands, a country not known for its elaborate rest areas.

A4-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

5. As we are very close to Schiphol Airport, airplanes fly over every 2 minutes. In the distance is the control tower.

A4-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

6. I really like this kind of overhead signage.

A4-7 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

7. About 2 kilometers further south, near the Nieuw-Vennep interchange.

A4-8 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

8. Signage for interchange Burgerveen, where A44 branches off A4.

A4-9 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

9. Until mid-2010, the A4 narrowed to 2 lanes ahead. The widening to 3 lanes reduced congestion significantly.

A4-10 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

10. Dutch skies, as they say.

A4-11 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

11. Traffic merging from A4 (right), A44 (middle) and N207 / Nieuw-Vennep (left)

A4-13 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

12. Amsterdambound.

A4-14 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Daviedoff

2 new video's:
N61 Schoondijke - Hoek, Zeeuws-Vlaanderen, you'll see the traffic problems because of the slow driving tractors...




 
A tour in Terneuzen, with the locks of the canal Gent - Terneuzen:




 
I've made also a few pictures at the Sluiskilbrug, which was closed for about 20 minutes (N61-N62, nearby Terneuzen).
https://picasaweb.google.com/daviedoff1979/2aug#


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## kosimodo

Gereke said:


> Emmen? That would be crazy. The importance of Emmen is like zero. Zwolle would be enough to sign.


Emmen is straight ahead.. Logical.


----------



## kubam4a1

The cycle path should be wider and act as a road for slow traffic.


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## Road_UK

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ Yes, and that was stupid, because they signed it via Zwolle. It should've been signed via Almere / Lelystad, because that's slightly shorter and less congested.


That's right. From Groningen heading towards Calais I usually go via Joure onto the A6, at Almere onto the A27 to Utrecht and carry on to Breda, Antwerp.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A new video: the westernmost section of the A1 motorway, from Bussum into Amsterdam.

It features the newly widened reversible lanes. Also some info about the future situation, this corridor will get a dramatic overhaul.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Infrastructure corridor:

* A58
* railway Bergen op Zoom - Vlissingen
* N289
* Schelde - Rijn Canal

Note the space for 2x3 lanes on the A58 bridge. Classical 1970's engineering, even though six lanes will probably never be necessary (41 000 vehicles per day).









source: beeldbank Rijkswaterstaat, Joop van Houdt.


----------



## CNGL

I can't imagine how crowded is that section of E231 the rest of the year. That video reminds me of another shot which shows the Beijing subway with nobody on it, when is always crowded (Like E231) (It was Chinese New Year's eve)


----------



## mappero

Palance said:


>


Wow! First European displayed speed limit signs! And applicable (and known) for most of drivers from outside the Netherlands.


----------



## Slagathor

I hate those signs. They never say 130


----------



## da_scotty

Slagathor said:


> I hate those signs. They never say 130


Even more annoying, they can't say 130hno:


----------



## mappero

^^ Why not? It's possible


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Oudenrijn - Everdingen*

The 4th southbound lane between interchanges Oudenrijn and Everdingen opened to traffic yesterday, August 7th. The new lane will reduce traffic congestion, and eliminate a 2x3 bottleneck between a 2x4 and 2x5 section around Utrecht. They will widen the northbound carriageway to 4 lanes as well, which will be completed in October 2011.


----------



## Surel

Road_UK said:


> I think from Groningen they have now calculated distance to Amsterdam via Lelystad/Almere. When you get to the roundabout at Joure they used to signpost Amsterdam going both ways: via Emmeloord and Lelystad/Almere A6 (no E-number available) or A7/E22 via Afsluitdijk. Now they signpost option one only, and E22 is signposted as Sneek only. After Sneek you can pick up signs for Amsterdam again, if you're persistent in using A7/E22 all the way. It also really depends where in Amsterdam you're going.



Yeah, my Dutch gf overulled the GPS and me and directed me in Joure on the Emmeloord route. Since the roundabout is turbo design, we had 5 km detour and turned around on the next interchange. The point was, she just did not pay attention and she saw the Amsterdam signpost, thinking about Afsluitdijk. Exactly as you said, there is now only Sneek direction sign now. Thus it confused her and she raised her voice over the navigation .


----------



## Surel

Are there plans on converting N50 between Emmeloord and Kampen into A50? When we drove through Ens in direction to Urk there was some construction going on making level separated intersection of N50 and N352 and doubling lanes on N50.

crapy pictures from the sight


----------



## Road_UK

^^
It would make a lot of sense if they did upgrade the N50 to the A50 for a number of reasons:

1: Friesland is now linked with the south of the Netherlands, motorway all the way and avoiding the big city's in the Randstad.. It would mean that the A50 starts at Eindhoven, and terminates at Joure. 

2: Better connection between Ruhr-gebiet and southern Germany. Traffic coming from Oberhausen and Arnhem can now use the motorway to the Frisian lakes all the way. Half of Germany seems to be there every summer. The other half are right here in Mayrhofen, Austria.

3: Driving from Mayrhofen to Sneek, the last bit on a long journey is always a bit of a drag. I just want to get there, and I am now able to put my foot down in the last hour of my journey. 

If they did do it, it would mean that the A6 from Amsterdam (A1) can now terminate at Emmeloord, and they would rename the current A6 between Emmeloord and Joure as A50. Leeuwarden is now also better linked with the A31 from Harlingen (Amsterdam A7) and from Joure it's only two junctions away to Heerenveen where you can change for Leeuwarden. All principal city's in the North now connected! If Kampen doesn't mind having a motorway in their backgarden, then I'm all for it!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A new N50 bridge is under construction with a 14-meter clearance. The old Ramspol Bridge is from 1948 and of inferior quality, being built just after the war. A new grade-separated junction is constructed near Ens (which you drove). As this is close to Zwolle, I make frequent updates, just haven't posted it here.

My July 22 update:

1. Nieuwe viaduct N352 over de N50.

N50 22-07-2011-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

2. Het viaduct is redelijk steil, en dat viel me bij meer recente projecten op. Ik heb het idee dat er bezuinigd wordt op taluds.

N50 22-07-2011-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

3. De N50 richting noorden, waar hij moet aansluiten op de bestaande 2x1 N50 naar Emmeloord. De nieuwe aansluiting heeft de vorm van een halfklaverblad.

N50 22-07-2011-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

4. De N50 richting zuiden. Er is een smalle middenberm, waar ongetwijfeld nog een vangrail ingezet zal worden.

N50 22-07-2011-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

5. Bovenkant van het viaduct. Ik vond het enigszins substandaard voor een kruising tussen een rijksweg en een provinciale weg uit de 300-serie, maar de N352 is nou ook weer niet zo'n belangrijke route.

N50 22-07-2011-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

6. Kijkend richting Kampen. De N50 is goed gevuld.

N50 22-07-2011-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

7. De nieuwe rotonde aan de oostzijde van de aansluiting.

N50 22-07-2011-7 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

8. Rotonde aan de westzijde. De maximumsnelheid op de N352 is normaliter 80 km/h, maar 60 km/h ter hoogte van de aansluiting en momenteel nog tijdelijk 30 km/h.

N50 22-07-2011-8 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr



9. En dan nu het echte werk, de brug over het Ramsdiep. 2 van 3 brugpijlers zijn gestort.

N50 22-07-2011-9 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

10. 

N50 22-07-2011-10 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

11. De derde (meest oostelijke) moet nog.

N50 22-07-2011-11 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

12. Ik vraag me af of die hogespanningsleiding zo dicht over het talud geen problemen gaat geven.

N50 22-07-2011-12 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

13. Dichter bij het Ramsdiep komt een tweede set brugpijlers. Op de achtergrond de huidige Ramspolbrug.

N50 22-07-2011-13 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

14. 

N50 22-07-2011-14 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

15. Het werkeiland in het midden van het Ramsdiep. Aan de Overijsselse kant is de voortgang aanzienlijk minder, ik kon enkel wat damwanden zien die nog net boven het water uitstaken.

N50 22-07-2011-15 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Road_UK

So no plans for an A50 upgrade? :-(


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No. It's not a priority and N50 is probably the most patched-up road in the Netherlands

just 40 km:

* Hattemerbroek - Kampen-Zuid: 2+1 
* Kampen-Zuid - Kampereiland: 1x2 100 km/h
* Kampereiland - Ens: 1x2 80 km/h (soon 2x2 100 km/h)
* Ens - Emmeloord: 2x1 100 km/h


----------



## Road_UK

As patched up as it may be...If they just went for that little extra mile after having done so much work, it just would... (see my post 5886)


----------



## Grisent

ChrisZwolle said:


> Another video, this time the A9 motorway from interchange Badhoevedorp to Uitgeest, bypass the Amsterdam region. A map is provided at the beginning of the video.


Why is the route designated with a yellow "2" (next to "A9"), on all the signs between knooppunt Velsen and Heemskerk? I haven't seen this before.


----------



## Planen B

It indicates a detour route for people to follow, in case of roadworks for example. Possibly a local road or provincial highway is having some works done, it'll say "Follow 2 for X" before you hit the works.


----------



## aswnl

When the Velsertunnel is closed, it indicates the route to the A22 exit Beverwijk coming from the south.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*30% less congestion in July*

According to ANWB - the Dutch motorist and tourist association - traffic congestion was reduced by 30% during the month of July, compared to July 2010. Especially off-peak congestion reduced significantly. This can be attributed to the improved road capacity and fewer recreational traffic due to the depressing summer weather.


----------



## mappero

ChrisZwolle said:


> ... and fewer recreational traffic due to the depressing summer weather.


 :badnews:

Hope the suicide index increase this year... What a weather


----------



## kubam4a1

Well, what you could do for recreation instead of complaining is take your car and a camera and...

Btw, is the traffic on N50 rather free flowing, or is it congested?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The traffic volumes on N50 are not exceptional north of Kampen, but there are several problems. The existing bridge dates back from 1948 and is technically worn out and needs replacement anyway. The current clearance is 5.6 m, which means that it has to open many times per day allow shipping to pass. It's a busy shipping route. The N50 is also above-average dangerous, with 1 fatality per year on average. There is also no alternate route for slow traffic, which is important in this agricultural region. 

The current bridge opens an average of 22 times per day, with 4 minutes each. However, before the queue disappeared, it takes more time. The number of summer openings are much higher, up to 50 or 80 times per day. Most openings are during the day because apart from professional shipping, there is also significant recreational shipping (mostly sail boats) which mainly require day openings. 

The new bridge will have a clearance of 14 meters, which is comparable to other major bridges in the region, like the Eiland Bridge (N50) and Ketel Bridge (A6). This doesn't make it a fixed bridge, openings are still necessary, but far less. An aqueduct or higher bridge is not economically feasible.


----------



## Slagathor

mappero said:


> Hope the suicide index increase this year... What a weather


Global warming. Get used to it, this is the new normal.


----------



## Road_UK

Slagathor said:


> Global warming. Get used to it, this is the new normal.


Global warming :lol:
It's not getting warmer, it's getting colder.


----------



## CNGL

Global war*n*ing 

I cannot believe how much traffic handles the E35 North of Utrech and the E25 South of Utrech (Or simplier: A2), they made it 2x4 or more for 90 kilometers...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ It's already done  A2 has 2x5 lanes north of Utrecht and 2x4 lanes south of it until the A15 interchange (Deil). Then it's 2x3 lanes to 's-Hertogenbosch and 4x2 lanes around the Brabant capital. Construction will start later this year to widen 's-Hertogenbosch - Eindhoven to 2x3 lanes. The Eindhoven bypass already has 8 - 10 lanes. A2 is the main intercity aorta of the Netherlands. There are almost no sections with less than 100 000 vehicles per day between Amsterdam and Eindhoven.


----------



## Agnette

One more video from the North Netherlands:






Map: http://goo.gl/TdXNU


----------



## bogdymol

ChrisZwolle said:


> A 1920's drive-thru house in Amsterdam:


I've just remembered. We have something like that in Arad too


----------



## aswnl

Road_UK said:


> They do ask us to use AS24 or EDS a bit more, they are unmanned stations off the motorway. I can't be bothered. I want to fill up, coffee and keep going. Eurotrafic is THE card for me. I can pay the tolls in France and Spain with that as well.
> For Italy I've got my VIA-card.


Why not use a normal debet-bankcard for paying fuel ?
And if you want to have only one card for paying tolls and fuel, you can always choose a credit-card.


----------



## Surel

aswnl said:


> Why not use a normal debet-bankcard for paying fuel ?
> And if you want to have only one card for paying tolls and fuel, you can always choose a credit-card.


Because the tank card companies provide full service with it, e.g. tax returns for VAT and excise taxes across the countries. You also get volume discounts... etc.


----------



## Road_UK

aswnl said:


> Why not use a normal debet-bankcard for paying fuel ?
> And if you want to have only one card for paying tolls and fuel, you can always choose a credit-card.


This is very simple: 

1: Company gets easier tax-returns using fuelcards.

2: We are not meant to buy cigarettes, food or a playstation on these cards. Fuel, oil, screenwash and tolls only.


----------



## Trilesy

Road_UK said:


> I think it's also a good idea to always display the name of the gas station on the signs. (BP, Shell, Total etc)
> They have always done this in Holland, Italy and France, in Germany they only started doing this a few years ago. They never do in the UK.


U.S. is the same way. Normally within a mile or so before each exit there are signs displaying all gas stations, fast food restaurants and hotels located near that exit. It saves lots of time when you want to eat/fill up at a specific place/gas station.


----------



## DesertEagle091

I must visit NED one day


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15 Arnhem - Zevenaar*

The first detailed EIA survey has been published today for the A15 missing link in Eastern Netherlands. The project is called the "robust road network in the Arnhem / Nijmegen region" and is aimed at the improvement of the road network. The working name is cleverly chosen, because an "robust" network means new links are preferred, and alternatives like widening existing roads or investing in public transport are not too serious / competitive alternatives. Although this is just the first detailed survey, it's already more or less decided that the A15 will be extended to A12 with a bridge across the Rhine. The other alternatives are basically formalities for comparison. The EIA determined investing in public transport would save 3,000 daily car trips in the region (where freeways carry 100,000+ vehicles) so that's most likely not an alternative, especially at the cost-benefit ratio.

1. Extension alternative









2. clustering alternative (A15 + existing Betuwe route)









3. Regional combination alternatives 1 & 2


----------



## Coccodrillo

Wouldn't be the second alternative better? (it avoids charging the A12 with A15-A18 traffic)


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## ChrisZwolle

I think so, from a traffic perspective. However, A12 needs to be widened anyway, it currently carries 80 000 vehicles per day and is often congested. However, alternative 2 is more than € 200 million more expensive than alternative 1. Plus it affects more people in the city of Zevenaar.


----------



## SkyView

Road_UK said:


> I still believe that the Netherlands has the worst 20th century architecture in the world together with Belgium and the UK.


Are you kidding ?

Speaking of different worlds, how can you put Belgium in the same league as the Netherlands and the UK...
I'm curious about your top 5 of best 20th century architecture !


----------



## Road_UK

SkyView said:


> Are you kidding ?
> 
> Speaking of different worlds, how can you put Belgium in the same league as the Netherlands and the UK...
> I'm curious about your top 5 of best 20th century architecture !


Very simple. I don't like brick buildings. I've lived in all three countries, and especially Belgium and the UK have the worst looking red-brick housing estates in the world. Whether its Charlerois or Birmingham or Liverpool or around Kortrijk... Very depressing stuff. And I find parts of Holland equally as depressing. Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague but also Utrecht, Haarlem, Groningen... All these countries have beautiful ancient architecture, and then they have to spoil it all with everything that's wrong with post-war building projects. 

I don't have a top 5. But I do find even the worst deprived French housing estates a bit friendlier then parts in the above mentioned countries, the Lille region not counted. I have been in a few of them in Lyon, Paris and shithole new-towns like Evreux. Even though a lot of them are no-go areas for police. Other than that I feel less depressed in Italy or Spain. Also Germany seems more maintained, even in Kreuzberg, Berlin.


----------



## woutero

^^ I would not confuse 20th century with post-war. Dutch architecture from 1900 - 1940 is generally beautiful imo. Post-war, well that's a different story.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 's-Hertogenbosch - Eindhoven*

The record of decision for the widening of A2 between 's-Hertogenbosch (Den Bosch) and Eindhoven has been published today. This is the final step towards the widening of the last 2x2 motorway section between Amsterdam and Eindhoven. Construction is planned to begin later this year, and is slated for completion in 2013. There was an usual high amount of public input, over 750 individual public inputs. Normally there are 50 - 150 for such widening projects, occassionally over 500. Not all inputs are necessarily negative.

The record of decision can be viewed online. It's entirely in Dutch, non-Dutch may be interested in the map designs (ZIP, 25 MB)


----------



## woutero

Things have developed quickly. I remember this section having traffic lights when I was a kid.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yep, it wasn't completely a motorway until 1996, and A50 didn't exist in that area until 2005 either. It shows how dynamic the area is.


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think so, from a traffic perspective. However, A12 needs to be widened anyway, it currently carries 80 000 vehicles per day and is often congested. However, alternative 2 is more than € 200 million more expensive than alternative 1. Plus it affects more people in the city of Zevenaar.


I think alternative 2 is by far the best one, but, they need an extra road &exit going from Westerfoort/Duiven to the extended A15.

Regiocombi looks ****.

Alternative 1 will congest the A12 more imho.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A12 will be widened to 2x3 in all alternatives. 

The main problem of the regiocombi is that the traffic volumes on A12 north of Arnhem become too high, especially the truck volumes. It is predicted that a staggering 41 000 trucks will utilize A12 between interchanges Grijsoord and Waterberg. It's even a doubt if 2x4 lanes can handle that, combined with commuter traffic. A15 will significantly relieve A12 from truck traffic, since it's more efficient to use A15 directly into Germany. 

The cost of regiocombi 1 are very high. A new Rhine River Bridge would need to be constructed. A12 needs to be widened. The IJssel River Bridge may need a widening as well. The A12 is currently already widened to 2x3 (Waterberg - Velperbroek), which would not be enough without an extended A15. The costs of grade-separating N325 will be quite high, while it already operates near capacity of a 2x2 motorway (70 000 vehicles per day). Hence, a new Andrej Sacharov Bridge may be necessary as well. 

So the real alternative to A15 is constructing 3 similar new bridges. The only feasible and cost-efficient solution is an extension of A15 and widening of A12 east of Arnhem. 

And, the project is named a "robust network". A wider A12 may be somewhat more robust, but it doesn't make a network.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This is quite interesting:


----------



## g.spinoza

"more than 4 lanes" or "more than or equal to 4 lanes"?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

more than 4 lanes. Or: 6 lanes or more.

An intermodal center was planned here (Road + Rail + Water) but it was scrapped in 2010 due to the lack of interest. Still, it has potential, the busiest inland waterway of Europe, the best freight railway in Europe and an increasingly capable motorway network.


----------



## ArthurK

ChrisZwolle said:


> An intermodal center was planned here (Road + Rail + Water) but it was scrapped in 2010 due to the lack of interest. Still, it has potential, the busiest inland waterway of Europe, the best freight railway in Europe and an increasingly capable motorway network.


The extended A15 will increase that potential. The location would have even more potential if the northern and southern branch of the Betuwe Freight Railroad would be constructed. Those branches were cancelled from the original plans of the Betuwe Freight Railroad. Now, freight trains from the northern Netherlands and northern Germany (via Bad Bentheim) are routed via Amersfoort-Amsterdam-Gouda-Rotterdam. A route with very heavy passenger traffic and right through city centers.

The north branch of the Betuwer Freight Railroad would follow alternative 1 to the A12, and then continue to the Twente region. I hope it returns to the table in the future.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Arnhem: completion one year ahead of schedule*

Rijkswaterstaat will commence large-scale construction on August 29th, for the widening of A12 between interchanges Waterberg and Velperbroek in northern Arnhem. A minimum of 2x2 lanes will remain in operation at all times during the day. The speed limit will be lowered from 100 to 90 km/h. The preparatory works went smoother than expected, and contractor Heijmans adjusted their work schedule, which means the widening will be completed one year ahead of schedule, in 2013 instead of 2014. 

The A12, which opened in 1961, carries 90 000 vehicles per day and is significantly over capacity. It will be widened from 4 to 6 lanes.

A temporary bridge has been constructed, and the existing bridge has been demolished, to make way for the A12.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Slagathor said:


> I should think so. We have quite many of these in The Hague (apartment buildings). Most of them are from the 1920s and 1930s but I don't know if that was the only period of time in which they were commonly built (maybe Chris knows):


Benjamin Franklin's House in Philadelphia:

http://www.ushistory.org/tour/franklin-court.htm

(Actually, that's not his house but, his print shop; it opens into a courtyard where the actual house used to be.)

Don't know when it was built, but Franklin died in 1790....

The French call that sort of gap in a building to permit carriages to enter a porte cochère.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Trilesy said:


> I'm curious, this little white sign underneath (gas station 17 km), does that show the distance until next gas station? If that's the case I like this idea, it helps plan ahead.


The Pennsylvania Turnpike has those too.  ("Next service area X miles" at the bottom of the blue sign for the service area that's coming up.)


----------



## -Pino-

The Netherlands were actually one of the last countries in Western-Europe to introduce that type of information on the signs. On other European countries, the level of information provided is often higher. In France, for instance, they also give you the distance to the next restaurant (example), in the UK and many other countries the next services on intersecting roads are also featured. As far as that's concerned, I'd say that the Dutch information on this point is relatively poor.


----------



## Slagathor

Penn's Woods said:


> Benjamin Franklin's House in Philadelphia:
> 
> http://www.ushistory.org/tour/franklin-court.htm
> 
> (Actually, that's not his house but, his print shop; it opens into a courtyard where the actual house used to be.)
> 
> Don't know when it was built, but Franklin died in 1790....
> 
> The French call that sort of gap in a building to permit carriages to enter a porte cochère.


That's slightly different though. Gates like these usually lead to court yards or squares. We have those as well, they're usually from the 16th-19th century. The 20th century versions (like the one in the picture I posted) lead to proper streets.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A2 Amsterdam - Utrecht in 1965:









A2 Amsterdam - Utrecht in 2011:

A2 Abcoude-8 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

It has changed somewhat...


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## Trilesy

Penn's Woods said:


> The Pennsylvania Turnpike has those too.  ("Next service area X miles" at the bottom of the blue sign for the service area that's coming up.)


I guess I never paid attention.


----------



## Penn's Woods

-Pino- said:


> The Netherlands were actually one of the last countries in Western-Europe to introduce that type of information on the signs. On other European countries, the level of information provided is often higher. In France, for instance, they also give you the distance to the next restaurant (example), in the UK and many other countries the next services on intersecting roads are also featured. As far as that's concerned, I'd say that the Dutch information on this point is relatively poor.


Well, the other side of the coin is giving too much information at high speed: I often miss the distance to the next service area on those Pennsylvania signs because I'm looking at the half-dozen logos for food places and the like.


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## ChrisZwolle

The Dutch road network is apart from undercapacity, also vulnerable because of its many movable bridges. Even motorways have a significant amount of drawbridges, including the busiest motorway in the country.

This is A9 near Amstelveen, after the Bridge across the Ring Canal malfunctioned.


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## g.spinoza

^^ Do you have statistics about Dutch car ownership and usage? You know, how many km per car per year, how many of them on motorways etc..


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## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Dutch road network is apart from undercapacity....


"Apart from undercapacity"? Not sure what you mean.

En ik wacht nog op die vertaling (a quote from German Wikipedia in Deutsche Autobahnen):




ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^
> 
> Wikipedia:


It didn't pick up the German.



Penn's Woods said:


> Vertaling, a.u.b.? ;-)





:cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are 10 523 000 vehicles in the Netherlands, including 7 735 000 passenger cars. Which is 463 passenger cars per 1000 inhabitants, or 1.047 vehicles per household. The average household size is 2.22 persons. 24.3 % of the households have 2 or more passenger cars. The amount of passenger cars increased by 22 % in the past 10 years while population increased by 4.5 % in the same time. The amount of kilometers driven by passenger cars increased by 5 % in the past 5 years. The average passenger car drives 13 600 kilometers per year. The average gasoline-powered car drives 10 950 kilometers per year, while the average diesel-powered car drives 24 551 kilometers per year. The average passenger car registered to a company drives 32 278 kilometers per year (diesel). 7.2 % of the Dutch population uses public transport. This is the highest among 15 - 25 year olds with 20.3 % and 3 % of the population who have a drivers license and own a passenger car use public transport.


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## g.spinoza

Penn's Woods said:


> "Apart from undercapacity"? Not sure what you mean.
> 
> En ik wacht nog op die vertaling (a quote from German Wikipedia in Deutsche Autobahnen):cheers:



^^ Most definitely not German :cheers:



ChrisZwolle said:


> There are 10 523 000 vehicles in the Netherlands, including 7 735 000 passenger cars. Which is 463 passenger cars per 1000 inhabitants, or 1.047 vehicles per household. The average household size is 2.22 persons. 24.3 % of the households have 2 or more passenger cars. The amount of passenger cars increased by 22 % in the past 10 years while population increased by 4.5 % in the same time. The amount of kilometers driven by passenger cars increased by 5 % in the past 5 years. The average passenger car drives 13 600 kilometers per year. The average gasoline-powered car drives 10 950 kilometers per year, while the average diesel-powered car drives 24 551 kilometers per year. The average passenger car registered to a company drives 32 278 kilometers per year (diesel). 7.2 % of the Dutch population uses public transport. This is the highest among 15 - 25 year olds with 20.3 % and 3 % of the population who have a drivers license and own a passenger car use public transport.


When I asked "do you have some statistics", I knew it was just a rhetorical question 
Thanks, pal.


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## Penn's Woods

g.spinoza said:


> ^^ Most definitely not German :cheers:


Dutch (possibly not very good): "I'm still waiting for that translation." The quote from Wikipedia on the German Autobahnen thread was in German. But my German's rusty.


----------



## g.spinoza

Penn's Woods said:


> Dutch (possibly not very good): "I'm still waiting for that translation." The quote from Wikipedia on the German Autobahnen thread was in German. But my German's rusty.


Yes, I know, I was just buying some time for the translation:

Here it is (very rough and possibly wrong)  :


> Due to the beginning of the Second Word War, the construction started only in some places, the clearest evidence of the former building activity is clearly recognizable on aerial photographs on the section Allac-Untermenzinger, along with remnants of the section for the intersection with BAB8; a never used bridge in that spot was demolished only in mid-90s. Furthermore, cut forest sections can be found north of Hasenbergl


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## Agnette

ChrisZwolle said:


> more than 4 lanes. Or: 6 lanes or more...


Where is the widest road in the Netherlands? How many lanes?


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## bogdymol

Agnette said:


> Where is the widest road in the Netherlands? How many lanes?


I guess that would be A1 close to Amsterdam:









^^ Picture taken by *ChrisZwolle*


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## lafreak84

^^ Also A4 through Schipol(AMS). 10 or 12 lanes, I forgot.


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## aswnl

The widest road in the Netherlands is the A15/A16 corridor near Ridderkerk. It has 4 carriageways and a total of 16 lanes. The roadsections with the widest carriageways are:
A2 near Abcoude (6 lanes, 2 hard shoulders)
A4 near Schiphol, north of tunnel (6 lanes, 1 hard shoulder)
A4 near Schiphol, south of tunnel (6 lanes, 1 hard shoulder)
A12 near De Meern (6 lanes, 1 hard shoulder)


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## mappero

After all this severe accidents this week maybe it's better to buy and drive a truck in The Netherlands to reach destination and be alive...


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## ChrisZwolle

New interchange name in the Netherlands: "Tiglia" (A73/A74)


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## Slagathor

mappero said:


> After all this severe accidents this week maybe it's better to buy and drive a truck in The Netherlands to reach destination and be alive...


Tell me about it. I've been in severe accidents with a truck twice in my lifetime. I was a in a passenger car both times and both times the police were slightly bewildered I escaped without serious injury.

I take trains these days


----------



## Koesj

This thread is turning into 112*insert location here*.nl though, I guess it's because of the summer season and not much construction going on/no new plans from the government (because all of them are on vacation, get it).


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## ChrisZwolle

We can't complain about the number of projects though, there haven't been so many road projects in like 30 years.


----------



## keokiracer

A car crash happened on the N259 near Halsteren, guess who was around with a camera :angel: _Don't forget to watch in Full-HD_




Halsteren was a chaos thanks to this, a few minutes later the traffic jam was 1 kilometer longer, and I could see it out of my window. Traffic jam was there until about 7 pm (video taped at 5 pm)


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## ChrisZwolle

*25 % less congestion in August*

Traffic congestion decreased by 25 percent in the month of August, compared to August 2010, according to the Dutch motorist and tourist association ANWB. Reasons were the additional road capacity, fewer roadworks and lots of rain.


----------



## Koesj

ChrisZwolle said:


> We can't complain about the number of projects though, there haven't been so many road projects in like 30 years.


I won't deny it, here in Groningen alone they're well underway with grade-seperating the ring road and the 600m windfall towards the A/N7 won't go to waste in the current legislative climate.

Right now it's 'komkommertijd' though


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A67 - New exit Hapert*

A new exit called Hapert will open tomorrow in the province of Brabant. It's located along the A67 motorway, west of Eindhoven. It will replace exit Eersel as the westernmost exit along the A67. N284 has been realigned to this new exit as well.

Some photos by Koef:









The new exit was specifically built to improve access to the new industrial area "Kempisch Bedrijvenpark".









The next exit is Retie, which is in Belgium.


















Last distance sign in the Netherlands.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N50 Ens*

The N50 is currently going through a major reconstruction. The old Ramspol Bridge from 1946 is currently being replaced by a new 4-lane bridge with a higher clearance of 14 meters. Additionally, the N50 is rebuild on a new 4-lane alignment around the town of Ens, including a new grade-separated interchange. I took some pictures yesterday.

map:









Uploaded with ImageShack.us

1. Ramspolbrug. Versleten wegdek.

N50-3-9-2011-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

2. De eerste set brugpijlers aan de Flevolandse kant.

N50-3-9-2011-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

3. De doorrijhoogte onder de hoogspanningskabels is toch nog iets van 14,5 meter las ik.

N50-3-9-2011-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

4. De tweede set brugpijlers aan de Flevolandse kant.

N50-3-9-2011-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

5. In het Ramsdiep zijn ze ook bezig. 6 september is er overigens een testafsluiting van de Balgstuw.

N50-3-9-2011-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

6. 

N50-3-9-2011-8 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

7. Ten zuiden van de nieuwe aansluiting Ens.

N50-3-9-2011-9 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

8. richting Kampen.

N50-3-9-2011-10 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

9. 

N50-3-9-2011-11 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

10. De aansluiting Ens.

N50-3-9-2011-12 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

11. wegmarkering.

N50-3-9-2011-15 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

12. Vanaf het viaduct, richting Emmeloord.

N50-3-9-2011-19 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

13. richting Kampen.

N50-3-9-2011-20 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

14. zoom.

N50-3-9-2011-21 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

15. Het viaduct.

N50-3-9-2011-22 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

16. 

N50-3-9-2011-24 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

17.

N50-3-9-2011-28 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

18.

N50-3-9-2011-29 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

19. Ten noorden van de nieuwe aansluiting Ens, kijkend richting zuiden.

N50-3-9-2011-30 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

20. End of the road.

N50-3-9-2011-31 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

21. 

N50-3-9-2011-32 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

22. Oude N50.

N50-3-9-2011-34 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

23. Richting Emmeloord.

N50-3-9-2011-35 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Summer congestion slashed by 32%*

Congestion during the summer months of June, July and August was cut by 32%, according to the VID - Traffic Information Service. The main reasons are improved motorway capacity and the bad weather which caused fewer congestion towards the beaches, although most of this congestion went unnoticed because it's not on motorways. The overall January - August 2011 congestion was cut by 21.4 % compared to the same period in 2010.


----------



## keokiracer

Chaos around Rotterdam, delays of 30 min+ because of this accident:








But it can always be worse: A2 Den Bosch - Utrecht was closed, 15 km solid traffic behiond it and detour routes also stuck. HIghest delay was 2 hrs and 45 mins. on the A2. Road was cleared a few minutes ago (no picture (yet))

CAr crash near Enschede on the A35 is turning Enschede and Hengelo into a car park. Crash happened at exit Delden on the A35, traffic jam is over 10 km from both directions. Delays are 30 min+. Picture: (click)
http://twente112.nl/?f=925


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## Road_UK

ChrisZwolle said:


> New interchange name in the Netherlands: "Tiglia" (A73/A74)


Is this A74 supposed to be connecting with the A61 in Germany? I drove into Holland via A61 last week, and I've noticed they were doing something behind that petrol station on the border, but the Dutch roundabout at the end of the A61 is still there. It was in the middle of the night when I drove through, and I didn't bother to stop and take a good look.


----------



## Daviedoff

Nice pics from the N50! 

A video, made yesterday, from the A79 Maastricht - Heerlen:


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ They do want to connect A61 (D) with A73 (NL).


----------



## keokiracer

Road_UK said:


> Is this A74 supposed to be connecting with the A61 in Germany? I drove into Holland via A61 last week, and I've noticed they were doing something behind that petrol station on the border, but the Dutch roundabout at the end of the A61 is still there. It was in the middle of the night when I drove through, and I didn't bother to stop and take a good look.


Yep it is, here's a map of the new road: (photo by GrandmasterE on the Dutch Road forum):


----------



## CNGL

Incredible, Dutch motorways A73 and A74 are shown like German autobahns. Viewing how short is A74, I would left it without number or extend the German A61 designation to Tiglia interchange.


----------



## keokiracer

^^ It's a German map on the German side of the road/construction site 

Leaving it with '61' is impossible, because there is a N61 in Holland, so that's not possible. And we like to have a number for every highway, the last numberless highway near Tilburg has been downgraded and now all highways in Holland have a number, even the A38, a highway of barely 1,5 km.


----------



## Suburbanist

keokiracer said:


> ^^ It's a German map on the German side of the road/construction site
> 
> Leaving it with '61' is impossible, because there is a N61 in Holland, so that's not possible. And we like to have a number for every highway, the last numberless highway near Tilburg has been downgraded and now all highways in Holland have a number, even the A38, a highway of barely 1,5 km.


Which was that? I live in Tilburg (since 2009) but never noticed any former highway around here/ Maybe the Ringbaan Zuid ot this stub?


----------



## keokiracer

^^ Midden-Brabantweg between exit Tilburg-Noord and Tilburg, here: http://g.co/maps/m27v


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> New interchange name in the Netherlands: "Tiglia" (A73/A74)


"Tiglia"? Very Dutch, that.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Penn's Woods said:


> "Tiglia"? Very Dutch, that.


It's Latin for Tegelen, a nearby town. It probably sounded more fancy. Previously, Ulingsheide was proposed (a nearby heath). I don't know exactly how to pronounce Tiglia, there are basically 3 possibilities: Tik-lia, Tiggggg-lia (Dutch choking ggg) or Tig-lia with a soft g (only used in southern Netherlands, but not as in French).


----------



## Penn's Woods

I assumed it was Italian. Which would be pronounced yet a fourth way.


----------



## MrAronymous

Penn's Woods said:


> I assumed it was Italian. Which would be pronounced yet a fourth way.


Nahh, I guess that would be the first one.

And the i should officially be pronounced as 'short i' in Dutch, so you'd get the sound you would get in English 'tigger'. :| Of course assuming people wouldn't understand it's supposed to be Latin.

Just something more sounding like Tegelen would have been just fine.


----------



## aswnl

keokiracer said:


> ^^ Midden-Brabantweg between exit Tilburg-Noord and Tilburg, here: http://g.co/maps/m27v


That was A261, before that it was A62.


----------



## keokiracer

Yeah, I just found out. I thought that part was still highway :bash:

In Dutch, because I don't have a clue how to say this in English:
Ik las net dit: "Een 2e gemeentelijke snelweg naast de voormalige (nu nummerloze) A261 ?", dus ik begrijp het nu :bash:


----------



## Slagathor

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's Latin for Tegelen, a nearby town. It probably sounded more fancy. Previously, Ulingsheide was proposed (a nearby heath). I don't know exactly how to pronounce Tiglia, there are basically 3 possibilities: Tik-lia, Tiggggg-lia (Dutch choking ggg) or Tig-lia with a soft g (only used in southern Netherlands, but not as in French).


De Latijnse uitspraak is "Tielja" met een korte nadruk op de L. Dus iets van "Tiellja."

In English phonetics that would be more or less "Teel-ya."


----------



## ChrisZwolle

New ecoduct "Hoog-Buurlo" inaugurated last Monday on A1 west of Apeldoorn. It's one out of nine ecoducts under construction currently. There are 215 bottlenecks for wildlife crossings, currently 91 of them have been solved. It increases animal migration and reduces accidents with wildlife. This is one of the few ecoducts that's constructed as a tunnel.



Ecoduct Hoog Buurlo-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


Ecoduct Hoog Buurlo-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


Ecoduct Hoog Buurlo-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Penn's Woods

Slagathor said:


> De Latijnse uitspraak is "Tielja" met een korte nadruk op de L. Dus iets van "Tiellja."
> 
> In English phonetics that would be more or less "Teel-ya."


That's what I was thinking of as the Italian pronunciation. I suppose Latin depends on the period, but I think in the classical period, the G and L would have been heard separately - tig-li-a. On the other hand, "Tiglia" really doesn't look that Latin, and Dutch Wikipedia says the origin of the name Tegelen is Latin "Tegula."

At any rate, I thought "tegelen" meant "tiles"....


----------



## keokiracer

Penn's Woods said:


> That's what I was thinking of as the Italian pronunciation. I suppose Latin depends on the period, but I think in the classical period, the G and L would have been heard separately - tig-li-a. On the other hand, "Tiglia" really doesn't look that Latin, and Dutch Wikipedia says the origin of the name Tegelen is Latin "Tegula."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegelen 
It is Tiglia 
BTW: Don't believe everything you read on wikipedia 


Penn's Woods said:


> At any rate, I thought "tegelen" meant "tiles"....


Tiles = Tegels. It's very close.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Penn's Woods said:


> At any rate, I thought "tegelen" meant "tiles"....


Almost... Tegel = tile, Tegels = tiles (plural). Tegelen is no correct Dutch word, but it's common to have a plural ending in -en, so I can see why  Huizen actually means houses


----------



## keokiracer

Car crash near Arnhem:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## julesstoop

'Tegelen' could be a verb though, meaning 'to tile / tiling', but in correct dutch that would be 'betegelen' (to put tiles on something).


----------



## Slagathor

ChrisZwolle said:


> New ecoduct "Hoog-Buurlo" inaugurated last Monday on A1 west of Apeldoorn. It's one out of nine ecoducts under construction currently. There are 215 bottlenecks for wildlife crossings, currently 91 of them have been solved. It increases animal migration and reduces accidents with wildlife. This is one of the few ecoducts that's constructed as a tunnel.


Do they put fences on these things? You don't want a deer falling off of one of those and onto an oncoming vehicle.


----------



## Vliegtuigbouwert

There are fences on it. Look at it again closely.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, it's not finished yet. The structural works are completed (embankments, tunnel construction). The landscaping will take quite some time. In about a year, it will look indistinguishable from the rest of the surroundings. So little Dubai there will become covered with grass, bushes and trees.


----------



## Cosmin

ChrisZwolle said:


> So little Dubai there will become covered with grass, bushes and trees.


Any skyscrapers planned?:lol:


----------



## Fargo Wolf

ChrisZwolle said:


> New ecoduct "Hoog-Buurlo" inaugurated last Monday on A1 west of Apeldoorn. It's one out of nine ecoducts under construction currently. There are 215 bottlenecks for wildlife crossings, currently 91 of them have been solved. It increases animal migration and reduces accidents with wildlife. This is one of the few ecoducts that's constructed as a tunnel.
> 
> 
> Ecoduct Hoog Buurlo-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


That's far better than this:

http://maps.google.ca/?ll=49.811155...0p-5xHIQS8iNBoZKG-jOUw&cbp=12,286.58,,0,-3.78

BC HWY 97C, just west of the HWY 97 interchange.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Section Control*

Rumors have it that the public auction for a section control on A2 between Amsterdam and Utrecht has commenced, and the system will become operational in Q2 2012. The A2 is the widest interurban motorway of Europe, and has 2x5 lanes between Amsterdam and Utrecht. The speed limit however, is only 100 km/h for the entire 45 kilometer section down to Everdingen. I know a lot of people are going to be really upset about this. I'm guessing the system will be vandalized a lot, just like the previous one.


----------



## bogdymol

^^ They could also raise the speed limit to 110 or 120 between interchanges A2/A9 and A2/N230.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Try:


----------



## bogdymol

^^ I love to see this sign while driving on a motorway


----------



## keokiracer

Photo update of the A4 near Halsteren:

All photos can be found here (Picasa).
Towards Steenbergen, seen from viaduct:


























Same situation as above, but seen from viaduct now








Towards Bergen Op Zoom








This is on top of the exit. You can see the space where the roundabout will come.









I also made a video (FULL-HD :cheers, this is the sped up version, click here for the normal version:


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> *A2 Section Control*
> 
> I'm guessing the system will be vandalized a lot, just like the previous one.


I don't care if it'll cost us more money, out of principle I hope that system will be destroyed more time than it is up. Bunch of retarded ****s who think 100 km/h is a suitable limit for such a motorway.


Avg. speed camera's on a 2x5 lane flat straight stretch going through farmville with probably next to none accidents happening, to protect the safety and the ''environment'', my arse, let the milking of the motorist begin on the A2 ! Double the current speed limit is far more suitable there than the current one...

Another decision that will increase the gap between the (working) people and the government!


----------



## keokiracer

^^ I think that besides politics and some (local) NIMBY's everyone agrees with you, including me ofcourse. This is ridiculous. If the max speed is 130 km/h I wouldn't mind section control. This is just a way for the government to get money hno:


----------



## Paulie Walnuts

That 100km/h (A2 Amsterdam-Utrecht) limit is very strange, also considering that the 8 lane section between Intersection Everdingen and Intersection Deil has a limit of 130km/h now. That makes no sense to me.


----------



## Road_UK

When will ALL motorway signs be replaced?


----------



## da_scotty

Paulie Walnuts said:


> That 100km/h (A2 Amsterdam-Utrecht) limit is very strange, also considering that the 8 lane section between Intersection Everdingen and Intersection Deil has a limit of 130km/h now. That makes no sense to me.


I believe it was a settlement between nimby/leftwing parties and other groups, so that the 5th lane could be openend.


----------



## kubam4a1

Set up a counter-protesting organisation, and settle at 120 and section control?


----------



## keokiracer

A caravan exploded near interchange Everdingen:








Printscreen from nearby trafficcam:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
The trafficcam is out of order now.

Delays of around 45 mins. on the A2 northbound.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A rather large error by the eastern Netherlands road district. 

There is no German A54. They meant B54.


----------



## keokiracer

Huge traffic chaos in The Netherlands:
So everyone kinda knows where it is: The road you see at the top of the pic, is the southern Ringroad of Rotterdam.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
The location where both directions are closed, was just cleared (bridge wouldn't close anymore...)


----------



## mappero

^^ Any reason for those traffic?


----------



## woutero

It was a very unfortunate combination of incidents, which shows the vulnerability of our system, relying on bridges and tunnels:

Late afternoon there was an accident on the southbound A16 near Dordrecht. Because of this, there was a recommended route diversion via the A29.

Around 16.00h the closing barriers of the Haringvliet Bridge (A29) malfunctioned and stayed closed for a while, resulting in accumulating traffic on all three sides, which was already busy south bound because of the diversion.

Northbound traffic was diverted to the A17, but around 18.00 there was an accident on the northbound A17 adding to the chaos.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Speed limits 


A28 80-90 1280px by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## bogdymol

80 or 90 on the external lanes?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

90 on all lanes. Electronic signs supersede other signs. Normally it's 80 km/h. Though the rules are not weird, this particular situation is. Usually electronic signs indicate lower limits than permanent signs, not higher ones.


----------



## Suburbanist

But the panel is a variable sign as well.


----------



## bogdymol

Why isn't the red circle used on electronic speed limits signs?


----------



## keokiracer

woutero said:


> Around 16.00h the closing barriers of the Haringvliet Bridge (A29) malfunctioned and stayed closed for a while, resulting in accumulating traffic on all three sides, which was already busy south bound because of the diversion.


Volkerak Bridge 
the bridge over the locks (sluizen).


----------



## kubam4a1

Perhaps it is due to technological issues - back when those VMSs were designed, it might have been not so easy as now to display the red circle. But had I to bet, drivers got the message. 

Back when speed limit increase to 130 was discussed, it was mentioned that VMS will be used not only to lowering speeds (back then it was about the 100 speed limit and its possible increase to 120). Perhaps along with the section control, at the superb-motorway A2 VMS should be installed, with common soruce of electric power, so that when the speed limit falls, it wouldn't be enforced so much anyway :lol:


----------



## mappero

bogdymol said:


> Why isn't the red circle used on electronic speed limits signs?


Yeah...:bash: This is long story... When I drive in The Netherlands (quite often on this motorway through Zwolle) and see those displayed speed limit signs with digit only I always understand (as almost all European drivers) as advisory speed limit. So mostly driving faster then on those signs. Cause those don't have red circle indeed!
But I've heard it's not correct with Dutch driving rules... hno: 

Other hand, you can see also displayed speed limit signs with red circle... So double standard within one small country? :bash::nuts:


----------



## bogdymol

mappero said:


> Yeah...:bash: This is long story... When I drive in The Netherlands (quite often on this motorway through Zwolle) and see those displayed speed limit signs with digit only* I always understand* (as almost all European drivers) *as advisory speed limit*. So mostly driving faster then on those signs. Cause those don't have red circle indeed!
> But I've heard it's not correct with Dutch driving rules... hno:
> 
> Other hand, you can see also displayed speed limit signs with red circle... So double standard within one small country? :bash::nuts:


This was also my first reaction: recommended driving speed.

PS: you stole my signature  It seems that you have it for a long time


----------



## petertenthije

bogdymol said:


> This was also my first reaction: recommended driving speed.


The reason there is no red circle is because the Netherlands was one of the first countries to use dynamic signalling, if not _the_ first. They where introduced here in the '70s. A lot of the signs currently in use are older then the latest generation of signs that display colours.

The older signs are gradually being replaced with more modern signs. This explains why on some motorways you can now find matrix signs with the red circle.

I've heard there are cases where a new sign has been placed, but where the red circle is not (yet) used. In addition to replacing the sign itself the cables need to be replaced as well, since the bandwidth to control them is insufficient.


----------



## mappero

But for example on new N2, A2 within Eindhoven area, on A28 Zwolle - Meppel where new display signs were installed (1-2 years ago) you can see still advisory speed display...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

As far as I know it also depends on the infrastructure between the traffic control center and the motorway itself, not only the new MTM on the motorway itself.


----------



## BigMike90

bit of a hectic week on the dutch motorways, lot of real heavy traffic jams. a50 shutdown earlier this week, creating chaos on the A12 near Arnhem and the regional roads round Apeldoorn and A1. Later the problems on the A29 to bergen op zoom. Another shutdown near Amsterdam causing major delays, costing a lot of money.


----------



## keokiracer

^^ Don't forget the chaos near Utrecht today
Printscreen by ChrisZwolle:


----------



## keokiracer

Update A4 Halsteren

*All pics can be seen here*
I'm too lazy to translate everything, so all the texts are in Dutch
Yes, I'm too lazy to use Google Translate:nuts:









^Deze geul is in de afgelopen week gegraven, het lijkt erop dat hier een aantal buizen zullen worden geplaatst om het water van de sloot aan de ene kant te kunnen verplaatsen naar de andere kant.









^Hier de buizen die zullen worden geplaatst, of eerder gezegd herplaatst. Ze zien er gebruikt uit









^De brug is inmiddels verbonden met de grond eromheen, er is deze week asfalt gelegd waardoor men er (als het niet afgezet zou zijn d.m.v. grote blokken) in principe overheen kan rijden.









^De geul gezien vanaf het viaduct, met links de buizen.









^Overzichtsfoto in noordelijke richting









^Hier moet de oprit richting Rotterdam komen, vooralsnog ligt er alleen nog de afrit vanuit Bergen Op Zoom naast









Het was behoorlijk druk. ook op de N259 stond in beide richtingen file (overigens ook op de oude N259 in Halsteren stond een flinke file voor de aansluiting met de A4/N259/N286).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some pictures by koef of the northbound A2 widening to 4 lanes near Nieuwegein (suburb of Utrecht). They're progressing quite well, the entire widening is executed in just over 6 months. It should be finished in about 2 months.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A31 motorway west of Leeuwarden used as a parking lot for the open days of the Royal Air Force.


----------



## Road_UK

No it's not. It's a traffic jam, and they heard I was coming and were making way for me.


----------



## da_scotty

Road_UK said:


> No it's not. It's a traffic jam, and they heard I was coming and were making way for me.


From 0:25

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GT3GX6n-y8&feature=related


----------



## Road_UK

I love that film. B-E-A-utifil. Good...Good...Gooooooood.


----------



## CNGL

da_scotty said:


>


I think you meant...





For put YouTube videos here, you have to write Here the code of the video.
The same for videos from blip.tv, dailymotion, Google video, My video, Rutube and Vimeo. With their names between brackets, of course.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Exact same location: A2 northbound just south of Beesd IC

2005:









2010:

A2-13-10-2010-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Kaaskop

ChrisZwolle said:


> A31 motorway west of Leeuwarden used as a parking lot for the open days of the Royal Air Force.


Fantastic photos!

One note: the official English name of the Koninklijke Luchtmach is Royal Netherlands Air Force. The Royal Air Force is the military aviation branch of the UK. Sorry for being such a whiner


----------



## Slagathor

^^ I particularly like that they went with "Royal Netherlands Air Force" because at the backdrop of WWII they thought "Royal Dutch" could be interpreted as "Deutsch" leading to planes being unnecessarily shot down.

I think if I were a pilot at the time, I would prefer "Netherlands" on my plane as well. 



ChrisZwolle said:


> Exact same location: A2 northbound just south of Beesd IC
> 
> 2005:
> http://i.imgur.com/HOb1H.jpg
> 
> 2010:
> 
> A2-13-10-2010-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


Excellent. 

One question, however: the sound barrier on the right appears... rusty further down. Or is it just brown in color? What's going on there?


----------



## da_scotty

It was installed rusty.. Don't know..looks fancy


----------



## MrAronymous

Indeed installed rusty. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/5078415429/sizes/l/in/photostream/

Photo by Chris


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The level of professionalism among Dutch regional media is appalling. It appears that most articles for internet editions of news papers or regional public broadcasting are written by interns. Everybody specialized in a field knows this. With roads, there is the infamous "rijbaan" when they mean "rijstrook" and "stoplicht" when they mean "verkeerslicht". Many communication departments of road authorities don't even get this right.


----------



## ABRob

Kaaskop said:


> An infantry fighting vehicle of the army broke down on the A58 near Best.
> 
> http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/3595/imagevtif.jpg
> 
> The source (Omroep Brabant) is calling this a tank. I doubt the professionalism of this news medium...


At least in German this IS a tank, called "Schützenpanzer". There are even "Radpanzer"


----------



## snowdog

Attus said:


> Please correct me if I understand your words wrongly. Do you mean that people that are ill should die instead of being cured in order to save money for building/ugrading roads?


No, I'm saying the current system is impossible to maintain unless the AOW grows with the life expectancy. The elderly are living longer and longer, at the cost of the younger. The longer people live, the more healthcare costs ( it's like rolling a snowball off a mountain, the cycle repeats and gets worse, a person who dies of lung cancer at 67 will cost FAR less in healthcare than a guy who survives this at 70, that at 75, then something else at 80, etc, let alone AOW costs), while the majority of 65+ ers don't work...

The AOW should have been upped AGES ago, then we didn't have this mess with higher expenditures than income, and money free to pump into roads, which will actually pay back after a while, unlike health.

Look at Greece with their lazy 55 pension age, those lazy ***** didn't want to work longer and now they're broke and hogging OUR money.

Unless the pension age grows with life expectancy, the cost of maintaining the elderly will grow out of proportions...


Building new and upgrading older roads is not a cost, it's an investment that will pay itself back in no time.


----------



## Attus

snowdog said:


> No, I'm saying the current system is impossible to maintain unless the AOW grows with the life expectancy. The elderly are living longer and longer, at the cost of the younger. The longer people live, the more healthcare costs ( it's like rolling a snowball off a mountain, the cycle repeats and gets worse, a person who dies of lung cancer at 67 will cost FAR less in healthcare than a guy who survives this at 70, that at 75, then something else at 80, etc, let alone AOW costs), while the majority of 65+ ers don't work...
> 
> The AOW should have been upped AGES ago, then we didn't have this mess with higher expenditures than income, and money free to pump into roads, which will actually pay back after a while, unlike health.
> 
> Look at Greece with their lazy 55 pension age, those lazy ***** didn't want to work longer and now they're broke.


OK, I see, thanks. Partially agree but for sure it is off topic here


----------



## keokiracer

Video from Bergen Op Zoom to Breda

Map: http://g.co/maps/xwmfu


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The percentage of GPS devices in Dutch households:









ITS in the Netherlands:


----------



## da_scotty

Kaaskop said:


> True, but considering the Army doesn't have any main battle tanks at all, this mistake is ridiculous...


At this moment we do have main battle tanks, although they are being fased out!


----------



## Kaaskop

ABRob said:


> At least in German this IS a tank, called "Schützenpanzer". There are even "Radpanzer"


In Dutch this is officially called an 'infanteriegevechtsvoertuig', which is the same in English if you literally translate it: 'infantry fighting vehicle'.



da_scotty said:


> At this moment we do have main battle tanks, although they are being fased out!


They are out of service for already five months. 

But let's get back on-topic


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Shoulder running*

Minister Schultz announced today that the hours of shoulder running on Dutch motorways will be extended. Formerly the hourly lane volume for opening the shoulder as an additional lane was 1.500 vehicles. This will be reduced to 1.350 vehicles per hour, per lane. They will be open longer by 30 - 60 minutes per day on 51 locations.


----------



## mappero

^^ 
That's good move!
I was wondering why sometimes running hard-shoulder are closing down around 9:00-9:20 on A50 when is still a lot car going southwards.

What about no trucks on left lane? I've heard something about this in Dutch radio...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N50*

The executive council of the province of Flevoland has approved the widening of the northernmost section of N50 between Ens and motorway interchange Emmeloord to 2x2 lanes. It is currently a divided super-two with shoulders and one driving lane per direction. An incomplete interchange will be constructed (to and from Zwolle only) just south of the Emmeloord trumpet. The whole project will cost € 17 million, most of which is financed from the canceled Zuiderzee railway line. This section is 6 kilometers long. It connects with the new 2x2 alignment around Ens that opened to traffic last Monday. The widened N50 should be completed no later than 2015.

map:


----------



## aswnl

I'd rather have a widening of Kampen-Zwolle, considering it won't be long gefore the new N23 from Lelystad will open...


----------



## Godius

aswnl said:


> I'd rather have a widening of Kampen-Zwolle, considering it won't be long gefore the new N23 from Lelystad will open...


Is this N23 road included in the Zuiderzee-infrasturcture money funds?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Almelo - Hengelo*

The A1 has been widened from 2x2 to de-facto 2x3 lanes in 2004 during large-scale maintenance. They added a 3 kilometer long weaving lane between interchange Azelo and interchange Buren. This is where A1 and A35 run concurrent. The traffic volumes are near 90 000 vehicles per day on this section, the third busiest section in Overijssel province. In September 2011, Rijkswaterstaat has changed the weaving lane marking to a third lane marking, which means this section is now officially 2x3 lanes, the first in eastern Overijssel.

Photos taken by me:


A1 Azelo-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A1 Azelo-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A1 Azelo-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A1 Azelo-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A1 Azelo-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Koesj

^^ Will they be doing the same thing in the Buren - Azelo direction?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They did, these photos were taken close to interchange Azelo. I also tried to make some pictures from behind the wheel but the low sunlight and the dirty windshield prevented good pictures.

This photo is at interchange Buren, entering A1/A35 from Enschede.

A1 Buren 2x3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## keokiracer

*A4 Halsteren - Dinteloord update*

Click here for all the pics (from this pic till the last in the series): https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8diDYin4LRM/Toh5n6iLcHI/AAAAAAAABQY/UzqEZe6Ca_s/s800/PIC_0959.JPG

Progress made in the last 3 months:

july 31th:








August 21th








Sept. 9th








Sept 16th








Today (oct. 2nd)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ So basically nothing happened during the summer and it's now kicked in high gear


----------



## keokiracer

^^ :lol:
I didnt even look at it that way :lol:


----------



## Slagathor

They probably found an exotic rat living there in July. hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The bridge across the Amsterdam - Rhine Canal on A1 east of Amsterdam. The bicycle bridge has to be one of the largest freestanding bicycle bridges in the Netherlands. Most long bridges are attached to another bridge.








(source: Beeldbank Rijkswaterstaat, Joop van Houdt)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A10 Second Coen Tunnel*

The works are progressing well. All traffic has been diverted to the new outer carriageways, and the old motorway has been demolished. The new skyways from A5 will connect to A10 here.









source: fotomix


----------



## snowdog

Great pic, very funny to see that wide thing go into this very slim 2x2 tunnel at the moment.


----------



## -Pino-

ChrisZwolle said:


> The bicycle bridge has to be one of the largest freestanding bicycle bridges in the Netherlands. Most long bridges are attached to another bridge.


The Nescio Bridge over the same canal comes to mind. And it's even more free standing; there are several hundred meters between the nearest road (which is the A10) and the bridge.


----------



## mappero

Snelweg can be open, not for cars  but ships 

RingRoad in Groningen


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Friesland - Fryslân*








A province that is often overlooked when it comes to road project is the province of Friesland (Frisian: Fryslân). For its size and traffic volumes, a lot of rather extensive projects have and will be executed.

Recently completed projects:

* N7 Sneek: grade-separating + new aquaduct
* N31 Leeuwarden - Drachten: new 2x2 grade-separated alignment
* N31 Zurich - Harlingen: new 2x2 grade-separated alignment
* various aquaducts throughout the province

Future projects:

* A6/A7: new free-flow interchange Joure
* A6: new aquaduct Scharsterrijn
* N31 Leeuwarden bypass: new 2x2 grade-separated expressway 
* N31 Harlingen: new 2x2 aquaduct
* N356 Centrale As: new 2x2 grade separated expressway from Dokkum to N31
* N381: new 2x2 / 1x2 grade separated expressway from Drachten to the border with Drenthe

map:


----------



## woutero

It's interesting that Friesland is investing so much in car infrastructure. The total population of the province is only 650.000, its capital Leeuwarden only has 90.000 people:

- Most projects (A7/N7, A6, N31) are finishing what was once planned but never properly built: the N7 Sneek, the Joure Interchange, the lack of a Leeuwarden bypass, the N31 Harlingen are all signs of under-investment in the past.

- Most important source of financing is the funds re-allocated from the canceled Zuiderzee railway line (Amsterdam-Groningen).

- it seems that in Friesland the provincial government is taking more control in road building, also where the road is a national road (like N7 Sneek, N31 Leeuwarden and Harlingen). They seem to take a very pragmatic approach with lots of expressway alignments in stead of full motorway profiles.

- Friesland does not have a very dominant large city, so there are not a lot of prestigious public transport plans: mostly increasing frequency on existing railway lines (Leeuwarden-Sneek, Leeuwarden - Wolvega and Leeuwarden - Groningen) and trying to sustain existing/suffering bus lines with smaller buses.

- The only exception is a railway line in study from Heerenveen via Drachten to Groningen (which is highly uncertain, and mostly advocated for by Arriva, the main PT concession holder in Friesland).


----------



## Slagathor

The A31 extension was a long time coming, frankly. I always felt a faint sense of disappointment when I left the Afsluitdijk and then had to go _down_ to Heerenveen on my way to Groningen.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Gouwe Aquaduct​*
Today the Gouwe Aquaduct turns 30. On October 6th, 1981, the aquaduct went into operation. The A12 motorway runs through it, and currently carries 154 000 vehicles per day. It is located in the city of Gouda, not far from Rotterdam. 

The A12 itself is significantly older, in June 1938, the A12 motorway opened to traffic between exits Moordrecht and Gouda. There was a drawbridge located across the Gouwe River at that time. The A12 was completed between Den Haag and Utrecht by 1939, as the first intercity motorway in the world outside Germany. When vehicular traffic increased after world war II, especially during the 1960's, the need for a new link increased because of bridge openings, causing lengthy delays and dangerous situations with idling traffic. The new aquaduct went under construction in 1975, and opened six years later in 1981, with 2x4 lanes. The new aquaduct has space for 2x5 lanes, and an additional lane opened in 2010 in the Den Haag-bound direction.

The Gouwe Aquaduct remained notorious in the traffic information, although the structure itself has enough capacity, but nearby sections do not. This was reduced when the A12 was widened with additional lanes towards Zoetermeer, and they are currently working to finalize the 4th lane between Gouda and Utrecht. The other direction already has 4 lanes.

Some photos:

1. An aerial view of the aquaduct.









2. Eastbound traffic congestion, caused by the lane reduction from 4 to 3 lanes towards Utrecht.









3. Driver's view from the aquaduct.


----------



## keokiracer

Car crash on the A12 near Arnhem has caused a traffic chaos in the area:











This is a Printscreen from 30 mins ago. It's even worse now, even though the road is clear now. Current situation:


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## lafreak84

^^ It shows how congested Dutch roads are. One crash causes complete collapse in almost entire city metro area. Frightening.


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## ChrisZwolle

Shoulder running went into operation on yet another location, this time the A9 between Uitgeest and Alkmaar. Because it was combined with large-scale maintenance, construction lasted for almost a year. This is an old motorway from 1961 and shoulder width was more narrow than on newer motorways.


shoulder running + plus lanes NL 22-5-2011 1024px by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

There is a proposal for a province merger in the Netherlands. The provinces of Noord-Holland, Utrecht and Flevoland should merge and form a North Randstad Province. Population: 4.1 million (largest in the Netherlands).


----------



## aswnl

In my opinion the Noordoostpolder should return to Overijssel, when this plan to merge the 3 provinces would become reality.


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## peezet

And Texel to Friesland also I think.


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## aswnl

^^
I really should't know why. Texel has nothing to do with Friesland at all. Not cultaral, not linguistic, and not economically. Texel has a ferry to Den Helder, so it should be logical to keep Texel to the new combined province.


----------



## keokiracer

^^ I disagree, Texel has way more with Noord Holland then with Friesland. The ferry departs from Den Helder (Noord Holland) and practically everyone works in Noord Holland. I don't see anty reason why Texel should go to Friesland. But go ahead, convince me 

aswnl and I had the exact same thought


----------



## Godius

peezet said:


> And Texel to Friesland also I think.


Demographically it wouldn't make sense but i can understand your argument when you place it in a geographical way.

I think the chance of Noordoostpolder joining Friesland is more likelier.


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## ChrisZwolle

25 years ago Noordoostpolder was part of Overijssel.


----------



## Godius

ChrisZwolle said:


> 25 years ago Noordoostpolder was part of Overijssel.


I knew that but I wanted to put it in perspective.

By the way, it is a relatively new piece of land, it was never really that assimilated with the province of Overijsel but that's another story. 
Lets get back on topic.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*IJmeer Toll Bridge*

A new study found out an Almere - Amsterdam connection across the IJmeer (Lake IJ) is not profitable. A 7 kilometer toll bridge would be necessary to link Almere with interchange Diemen (A1/A9). However, with the already planned improvements on the A1/A6/A9 corridor, a new link would attract only some 27.000 vehicles per day if toll free. However, the projected costs are at € 450 million, and even a slight toll of € 0.50 would already cause traffic volumes to drop to 8.000 vehicles per day. The most economical toll was € 2 per passage, but this cannot cover the cost of construction and maintenance. The bridge will likely not be constructed. In addition, it doesn't shorten the distance to Amsterdam significantly compared to A1/A6.


----------



## Suburbanist

keokiracer said:


> Video of the whole N57, which goes over Delta Works: Oosterscheldekering, Haringvlietdam, Brousersdam, Veerse Gatdam etc.


Nice video! It has a bit of everything: dams, bridges, downgraded roads, 1+1 separated carriageway roads, 2-lane-divided roundabouts, green medians, roadworks, and even an old windmill that is actually working at the beginning of the video.


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## Wuppeltje

I love the seabarriers. The annoying thing (with a perfect example in the video) in Zeeland are the people who are going for example 70km/h where you are allowed to go 100km/h. Mostly old people. I laughed my ass off, when I was following someone going 70km/h all the time where you were allowed to go much faster as well, but he didn't slow down before the traffic lights (50km/h max). And just before the traffic lights he got flashed by a speed camera.


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ N57 is always a good inspiration for a pipe dream I have: a mega project to dam the North Sea outside the Wadden islands, from Texel all the way to Emden, with sea barriers and a nice road over them, linking Texel, Ameland, Terschelling and all other islands 

They could then reclaim all the Waddenzee as new polders for Frisland.


----------



## julesstoop

Pipe nightmare, you mean...


----------



## Suburbanist

julesstoop said:


> Pipe nightmare, you mean...


Well, I guess few people today living in the western half of Netherlands would say it was a bad idea to drain marshlands and build polders... because otherwise their homes wouldn't exist!

The Wadden Sea is very, very shallow. Indeed, it is shallower than some areas drained around Leiden in 18th Century!

So it is possible and technically feasible. If you don't mind converting all the sea into polders, it is not even that expensive. And the Nederlandse area would grow by 12-14%!


----------



## Wuppeltje

In the past we always needed farmland, which was the main reason and way to finance of our polders. We don't need farmland anymore. Much farmland was recently converted to 'nature'. Why convert the waddenzee to something we don't need, especially in an area with low economic grow and potential. The only real interesting economic development is tourism, which will be at risk by making new polders, because the area will be losing something unique; UNESCO site.


----------



## keokiracer

^^ It certainly is a beautiful area and I wouldn't be happy if they decided to drain the land hno:. It's really beautiful there 
@Suburbanist: I'm guessing you've never been there before?



Suburbanist said:


> Nice video! It has a bit of everything: dams, bridges, downgraded roads, 1+1 separated carriageway roads, 2-lane-divided roundabouts, green medians, roadworks, and even an old windmill that is actually working at the beginning of the video.


Thank you! It certainly has something of everything, that's the best part of the road 
But especially the last few kilometers need widening, every morning there is a traffic jam between Hellevoetsluis and the N15, the bridge you see at the end (Harmsenbrug) will get 2x2 lanes soon, since bikes will get a new bridge recentely they wont need to go over this bridge anymore so it can be widened to 2x2.

Here is the video that follows by the way. It's starts around 400 meters after the last vdeo ended, because I had to switch batteries


----------



## Slagathor

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ N57 is always a good inspiration for a pipe dream I have: a mega project to dam the North Sea outside the Wadden islands, from Texel all the way to Emden, with sea barriers and a nice road over them, linking Texel, Ameland, Terschelling and all other islands
> 
> They could then reclaim all the Waddenzee as new polders for Frisland.


Why stop there?










With all this new land, we could chase our farmers out of the country, import our food from Brazil and convert every square meter into beautiful sprawling suburbs linked together by mega-highways. Everyone could have an enormous house with 5 bedrooms and 2 kitchens. It would be a Suburbanist paradise!


----------



## woutero

Perfect. Finally our dreams can come true! What have those seals, dolphins, mussels, eels and oysters ever done for us?! Tourism? Overrated!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

We should extend the Maasvlakte to the United Kingdom.


----------



## Slagathor

A new Afsluitdijk to Hull. Good plan.


----------



## da_scotty

Slagathor said:


> A new Afsluitdijk to Hull. Good plan.


As a matter of fact, I've always wanted to drive to New York.. Trans-Atlantic-****! take TAD!


----------



## zsmg

ChrisZwolle said:


> We should extend the Maasvlakte to the United Kingdom.


 http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/north_sea_drainage.jpg :nuts:


----------



## keokiracer

Another video:
A58: Bergen Op Zoom - Goes


----------



## Slagathor

keokiracer said:


> Another video:
> A58: Bergen Op Zoom - Goes
> Youtube: eUDjCZIXIMg


The only Dutch motorway that has a song. And an excellent driving song at that! :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*

Details are not yet disclosed, but it appears that the construction of the A4 motorway between Delft and Schiedam may be much cheaper than the reserved budget. The government had reserved € 600 million for the construction of the motorway, out of a total budget of € 898 million, but the cheapest bidder who got the job, A4ALL, made an offer of € 300 million. The next bidders made offers of € 466 and € 535 million respectively. If this really is an € 300 million saving, this could become interesting for other projects that currently do not have sufficient funding. For example such an amount of money may accelerate a toll free A24 tunnel near Rozenburg (A20 - A15 connection), or accelerate the planned A13-A16 connection or an A38 extension near Krimpen. The possibilities are endless, even in the Netherlands € 300 million is a significant amount of money.


----------



## Slagathor

Should use it for the last remaining stretch of non-existent A4 in de Hoekse Waard. 

I can dream.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I concur. It could pay for a 3.500 m bored tunnel underneath the Oude Maas and Spui Rivers. The 6.600 m Westerschelde Tunnel (two tubes, 4 lanes) cost € 725 million. 

However, I think the A4 between interchanges Benelux (A4/A15) and Klaaswaal (A4/A29) should be constructed together with a widening of A29 to 2x3 lanes between Klaaswaal and interchange Hellegatsplein (A4/N59). This would require a new Haringvliet Bridge.


----------



## Slagathor

^^ A widening of the A29 would make excellent sense if there is reason to assume a substantial traffic flow on the A29 from Barendrecht would merge with another substantial traffic flow on the new A4 from interchange Benelux. You would then have to widen the A29 to avoid a bottleneck where the two roads come together. 

But wouldn't an extended A4 simply take most of the traffic from the A29 to begin with? Would the total amount of traffic really grow that much to justify a widening and a new Haringvlietbridge?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N356 Expressway*

Good news in northern Netherlands.

The Council of State has rejected all appeals against the construction of a new 2x2 N356 expressway in Friesland province. The road will connect N31 with the isolated town of Dokkum. It will have two spurs, which are two-lane. A new aquaduct will be constructed near Burgum. All intersections are grade-separated. The previous record of decision was annulled by the Council of State, but the Friesland province repaired it, and can now proceed with construction. 

map:


----------



## Ingenioren

N356 will have 100km/h speed limit?


----------



## keokiracer

^^ Yes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Utrecht - Veenendaal*

The widening of A12 is in steady progress.

There are 113 aerial photos available from October 28th:
https://picasaweb.google.com/115522548444785464617/20111028

preview:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Free the freeways*

Transportation minister Schultz formally inaugurated the left shoulder running on A12 in Zoetermeer today. This eliminates the last two-lane bottleneck between Utrecht and Den Haag. This also makes it the longest left shoulder running in the Netherlands, stretching for 32 kilometers from Woerden to Zoetermeer. 

During the current government cabinet period, 800 new lane kilometers will be constructed, which consists of regular widenings, shoulder running and left shoulder running ("plus lanes"). During 2011, 289 kilometers of new lanes have opened to traffic, out of which 62 km was originally planned to be in service by 2012. 

Shoulder running went into operation on several locations in the past month;

* A1 Bussum - Eemnes
* A9 Uitgeest - Alkmaar
* A12 Zoetermeer - Zoetermeer-Centrum


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A50 Ewijk - Valburg*

A photo update by Captain007 of the A50 widening from 2x2 to 2x4 lanes, including an additional Waal River Bridge.

1. Reconstruction of interchange Ewijk.

DSC_0703 by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr

2. Wider roadway:

DSC_0722 by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr

3. Widening

DSC_0725 by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr

4. New Waal Bridge construction

DSC_0734 by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr

5. 

DSC_0743 by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr

6.

DSC_0767 by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr

7. 

DSC_0771 by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N18 Varsseveld - Enschede*

A design-record of decision is due to be published this week. Some details are already released in the form of this schematic map. The current N18 is a two-lane road with some grade-separation, but also traffic signals and urban sections. It's a deadly road, due to the long distances involved and heavy traffic. As you can see the main upgrades are from Groenlo up to Enschede, although only the last section will have 2x2 lanes.


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## MrAronymous

Weird they use the German font in the speed signs. 
And I guess the new road will be a lot better.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A16, Rotterdam. Busiest motorway in the Netherlands at 250.000 vehicles per day.

2009-08-04 Vlucht Rome naar Rotterdam - Rotterdam - 7 by Topaas, on Flickr


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## shpirtkosova

I once driven through The Netherlands from Aachen in Germany to Belgium and I must say that Holland has some of the finest motorways Europe has to offer, Radi will be very happy to know that Holland has very shiny crash barriers and quality of asphalt.


----------



## Slagathor

From Aachen to Belgium? That wasn't a long trip on Dutch soil then. If you blink you've missed it


----------



## shpirtkosova

Yeh its only about half an hour!


----------



## keokiracer

^^ Even less, unless you were driving like 60 km/h  I'd say more like 15 mins (27 km with 120 km/h)


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## shpirtkosova

How old is that motorway I drove on? It looks very new!


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## ChrisZwolle

You were driving on A76. The first section opened in 1954. It was completed in 1976.


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## keokiracer

^^ Openingdates from wegenwiki.nl (and their source is autosnelwegen.nl --> SSC user aswnl )
19-11-1954: Nuth - interchange Ten Esschen (3 km)
19-12-1959: Spaubeek - Nuth (4 km) 
29-11-1963: Geleen - Spaubeek (3 km)
15-07-1966: Interchange Kerensheide - Geleen (2 km)
15-12-1970: Bocholtz - German border (2 km)
11-04-1973: Belgium border - interchange Kerensheide (3 km) 
28-06-1976: interchange Ten Esschen - Bocholtz (10 km)

EDIT: Chris was ahead of me


----------



## shpirtkosova

I'm no road expert but that motorway just looks like it was relaid only few years back and the ride is very smooth... Dutch, Hungarian and Croatian motorways are very good.


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ The Dutch are obsessed with good highway paving, mostly to reduce noise. They use a special asphalt (porous) that drains very well rainwater, and reduces noise, but degrades quickly. Hence, they are always repaving everything every 4-6 years.


----------



## keokiracer

^^ It might have been repaved lately, but I don't know when that would have happened.

EDIT: That's the 2nd time in 2 posts that this happens...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> Hence, they are always repaving everything every 4-6 years.


The general paving cycle is every 7 - 10 years. Some sections are paved more often for repairs, but that's usually only a top layer. That said, there are motorway sections with asphalt than is over 20 years old. But these are still in relative good condition (no potholes or tracks).


----------



## Daviedoff

The short provincial freeway A256 nearby Goes, Zeeland:




 
N62 trough the Westerscheldetunnel and Sloeweg (connection tunnel - A58):


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Brabant: Traffic congestion up on A2, A58*

Traffic congestion increased sharply on A2 in Brabant province. On this last 4-lane section between 's-Hertogenbosch and Eindhoven, traffic congestion increased by 576% in 2011, "scoring" 152.000 kilometer minutes. Traffic congestion was worst on the A58 between Eindhoven and Tilburg, which recorded 199.000 kilometer minutes in 2011. Traffic congestion was also slightly up on A50 between Oss and Eindhoven. Traffic congestion on A27 was down, from 145.000 kmmin in 2010 to 119.000 kmmin in 2011. 

This can be explained by recent changes to the road network. 's-Hertogenbosch - Eindhoven is now the sole 4-lane section of A2 with traffic volumes over 80.000 vehicles per day. With roadworks around both cities finished, it is the last remaining major bottleneck along A2. The A58 is another motorway with very high traffic volumes, as much as 90.000 vehicles per day on 2x2 lanes. The increased congestion is also a result of the construction of a 3rd lane from Eindhoven to Oirschot, which was intended to buffer congestion on the A58 instead of on A2. It serves its purpose well, but will not reduce congestion for travelers towards Tilburg.

A27 congestion was down by 18 percent, mainly because the A2 corridor has now sufficient capacity, which attracts drivers from A27. It is still a major bottleneck though. A50 congestion was up slightly, but remains relatively low at 25.000 kmmin in 2011. This is mainly because traffic detours via Oss to avoid A2 between 's-Hertogenbosch and Eindhoven.

A58 Eindhoven - Tilburg is now the 3rd or 4th worst spot in the entire country.


----------



## g.spinoza

ChrisZwolle said:


> Traffic congestion increased sharply on A2 in Brabant province. On this last 4-lane section between 's-Hertogenbosch and Eindhoven, traffic congestion increased by 576% in 2011, "scoring" 152.000 kilometer minutes.


5 times more in just one year? It seems almost impossible.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

g.spinoza said:


> 5 times more in just one year? It seems almost impossible.


It's a huge increase. It's mainly a relocation of traffic congestion, which was first on nearby workzone stretches which have now been widened to 8 lanes. This particular section will be widened to 2x3 lanes in 2012 and 2013. Comparable with A2 further north near Zaltbommel, traffic congestion will likely be cut by 90% in 2013. It's just two more years of biting through, then we're done.

The Netherlands has a very dense motorway network where all motorways are communicating with each other. A change here will have effect there. I'm just happy they managed to widen 80 out of 100 km between Amsterdam and Eindhoven in only 4 years time.


----------



## da_scotty

ChrisZwolle said:


> *Brabant: Traffic congestion up on A2, A58*
> 
> Traffic congestion increased sharply on A2 in Brabant province. On this last 4-lane section between 's-Hertogenbosch and Eindhoven, traffic congestion increased by 576% in 2011, "scoring" 152.000 kilometer minutes. Traffic congestion was worst on the A58 between Eindhoven and Tilburg, which recorded 199.000 kilometer minutes in 2011. Traffic congestion was also slightly up on A50 between Oss and Eindhoven. Traffic congestion on A27 was down, from 145.000 kmmin in 2010 to 119.000 kmmin in 2011.
> 
> This can be explained by recent changes to the road network. 's-Hertogenbosch - Eindhoven is now the sole 4-lane section of A2 with traffic volumes over 80.000 vehicles per day. With roadworks around both cities finished, it is the last remaining major bottleneck along A2. The A58 is another motorway with very high traffic volumes, as much as 90.000 vehicles per day on 2x2 lanes. The increased congestion is also a result of the construction of a 3rd lane from Eindhoven to Oirschot, which was intended to buffer congestion on the A58 instead of on A2. It serves its purpose well, but will not reduce congestion for travelers towards Tilburg.
> 
> A27 congestion was down by 18 percent, mainly because the A2 corridor has now sufficient capacity, which attracts drivers from A27. It is still a major bottleneck though. A50 congestion was up slightly, but remains relatively low at 25.000 kmmin in 2011. This is mainly because traffic detours via Oss to avoid A2 between 's-Hertogenbosch and Eindhoven.
> 
> A58 Eindhoven - Tilburg is now the 3rd or 4th worst spot in the entire country.


Whats the traffic like at the A59? Mainly Around Waalwijk/Den Bosch/Oss .. Because I keep on hearing that traffic is terrible there, especially between Oss and Den Bosch, and that slow traffic is the norm!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The main problem around 's-Hertogenbosch (Den Bosch) is that they appear to have miscalculated the usage of the parallel lanes of the A2/A59. The usage of the parallel lanes appears much higher than the express lanes. I personally do not favor a local-express setup for only 4 lanes each way. Motorways can operate fine with 5 lanes each way. Now the available capacity cannot be used efficiently. This results in slowdowns on both adjoining sections of A59.

Unfortunately there are no traffic count stations available close on the A2/A59 near 's-Hertogenbosch. The closest count station I can access is between Oss and Paalgraven. There were about 60.000 - 65.000 vehicles per workday on that section in the first half of 2011. I can only imagine the volumes closer to 's-Hertogenbosch are higher, maybe as much as 80.000 vpd.

I have also accessed recent traffic counts on A2 's-Hertogenbosch - Eindhoven. It appears volumes were at 90.000 vehicles per day in the first half of 2011 (2x2 lanes).


----------



## Attus

ChrisZwolle said:


> this last 4-lane section


I will never be accustomed to it... In Hungary if a road is said to be "4 lane", it means four lanes per direction while you (and several other nations as well) mean 4 lanes altogether so two per direction. 
So at first sight I doubted how on earth can less than 100 thousand vehicles cogest a road of four lanes...


----------



## bogdymol

I got you 



ChrisZwolle said:


> The Netherlands has a very dense motorway network where *all* motorways are communicating with each other.


How about A31?


----------



## keokiracer

^^ You can keep it way closer, A261 or A270 




ChrisZwolle said:


> Unfortunately there are no traffic count stations available close on the A2/A59 near 's-Hertogenbosch. The closest count station I can access is between Oss and Paalgraven. There were about 60.000 - 65.000 vehicles per workday on that section in the first half of 2011. I can only imagine the volumes closer to 's-Hertogenbosch are higher, maybe as much as 80.000 vpd.


It was 77.000 vpd in 2006, so it wouldn't surprise me if it was around 85.000 vpd now.


----------



## Suburbanist

keokiracer said:


> ^^ You can keep it way closer, A261 or A270


Also: A57 and A2 south of Maastricht.


----------



## keokiracer

^^ A57? There is no A57 in The Netherlands, there is a N57 (Rotterdam - Middelburg)


----------



## Palance

A7 east of Groningen.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's not what I meant with "communicating" at all, but never mind.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Recent road news;

*130 km/h = section control?*

The attorney general wants to implement section control along motorways which will get a definitive 130 km/h speed limit, similar to Tutor in Italy. Initial reactions were mostly negative, it is seen as they want to cash in on the higher speed limits. No definitive decisions about the 130 km/h trials have been taken yet.

*Fog = chaos*

Dense fog has covered the Netherlands yesterday and today, rendering most shoulder running inoperable, significantly increasing congestion. The morning rush hour peaked at about 400 kilometers of traffic jams, about twice the regular rate. Especially with the large number of new shoulder running in recent years, it shows the vulnerability of our road network. 

*A58 widening?*

According to regional newspapers, Rijkswaterstaat is currently conducting a feasibility study to widen A58 between Tilburg and Breda to 2x3 lanes. The motorway carries up to 90 000 vehicles per day on that stretch and is frequently congested. It is only one of many saturated 4-lane motorways in the country. 

*Hoevelaken interchange rebuilding*

Gelderland provincial government has pledged to fund additional measures to reduce motorway impact that are not required by law. This could speed up the process of the Hoevelaken cloverleaf rebuilding, which is one of the most congested interchanges in the Netherlands. There are also continuing arguments about whether the Hoevelaken exit should be kept or not. It's basically too close to the interchange to operate safely under high traffic volumes, because traffic will have to cross two busy lanes within a few hundred meters to exit. Hoevelaken can already use three other nearby motorway junctions, though the one in question is closest to town. The project is to be finished somewhere around 2016 or 2018.


----------



## shpirtkosova

I don't see why Holland is at 120kmph when the motorways are probably much better than Poland and they are implementing a 140kmph speed limit!?! Another thing is that you have Germany with no speed limit in the south too. It seems quite a few countries follow the 130kmh speed limit.. Kosovo btw not added to that list has 130kmph top-speed limit on the currently built motorway.

wikipedia


----------



## keokiracer

And then there is the brand new 10-lane (= 5 lane per direction) A2 where the max. speed is 100 km/h :bash:
I thought the 5-lane (4 lanes + wide plus lane) A4 passing Hoofddorp was 120 km/h

I can't understand why the frequently congested A58 between Roosendaal and Bergen Op Zoom (2x2 lanes) can be 130 km/h, when a brand new, practically traffic jam free highway with 5 lanes is 100 km/h. I don't see any [bleep]ing logic in that :bash: hno:

I also thought that some of our highways were designed for speeds up to 160 km/h, Chris, is that true?


----------



## MrAronymous

Higher speeds are dangerous because of the short distances between exits we have. If we'd had less of them, great chance we would already be driving 130.


----------



## andy5

shpirtkosova said:


> I don't see why Holland is at 120kmph when the motorways are probably much better than Poland and they are implementing a 140kmph speed limit!?! Another thing is that you have Germany with no speed limit in the south too. It seems quite a few countries follow the 130kmh speed limit.. Kosovo btw not added to that list has 130kmph top-speed limit on the currently built motorway.


The A2 in Poland really doesn't have much traffic, and not many exits, and is mostly very straight. You just have to keep stopping for the tolls.

It would probably be safe enough with even 160 kph.


----------



## keokiracer

MrAronymous said:


> Higher speeds are dangerous because of the short distances between exits we have. If we'd had less of them, great chance we would already be driving 130.


Sorry, but if that's the real reason: that's bullcrap hno: (not meant for you ) And that's still no reason why the A2 is 100 (Near Maarssen it's because of environmental/sound issues), Between Maarssen and interchange Holendrecht there are 4 exits (Breukelen, rest area, Vinkeveen, Abcoude) in 20 km. That's 1 approx. every 5 km. (that's above average btw) You could easily drive 160 there outside rushhour...


----------



## snowdog

andy5 said:


> It is safe enough with even 160 kph.


Fixed .

Samme applies to Holland though, especially at night. Not a problem at all cruising at 160 kph (muldergrens) on cruise control on motorways.

//mindfart:
Lots of exits and entrances shouldn't matter, if they do, ban all cars from highways that don't do 100 kph in 10 seconds so there is no problem with granps in his Korean Ecomobile ( or any other crappy ''green'' or city car) joining traffic at 70 kph... Also remove the truck limiters. Leave Snelwegen ( ''fastroads'') for Snelle Auto's ( fast cars).

// Remembers his autobahn trips to Poland and Poland itself where you can realistically drive 150-180 kph on average at night, unlike here, here you get stuck up morons on their high horses abiding rediculous laws and hating everyone who wants to go faster and coppers who love to take your license or the government who welcomes your extra speeding tax.


----------



## Slagathor

keokiracer said:


> Sorry, but if that's the real reason: that's bullcrap hno:





snowdog said:


> //mindfart:
> Lots of exits and entrances shouldn't matter


Annoyingly, it rather does matter a lot for 2x2 motorways. Our driving on motorways depends in no small part on the entrance ramps (exits don't matter in this context). When new cars come on the motorway, we give them space by going left. That means several slower moving vehicles from the right lane suddenly pass onto the left lane. 
That's not a big problem on 2x3 motorways because there's a third lane that's exempt from this motion where other motorists can easily do 140km/h. But when there are only 2 lanes, there is a problem.

You might argue that much of this problem could be erased if passenger cars could speed up to 140km/h on the entrance ramps, but that means extending many of them because many are not currently suitable for such a feat.



snowdog said:


> Also remove the truck limiters.


That's a horrible idea. Trucks are responsible for enough deadly accidents as it is. 

What you need to do is: remove the trucks. Freight should be transported by railway or waterway. The province of Zeeland had an interesting brainwave a few years ago when it was suggested to construct a cheap "conveyor belt" in the median of the A58 between the seaports of Vlissingen and Moerdijk. The conveyor belt would move shipping containers at a speed of up to 50km/h. The idea was to remove a huge amount of trucks off the road, thereby effectively canceling all congestion in the area. The idea never materialized, but frankly I don't understand why. It's ideal. We need to get the slow, heavy, dangerous trucks off the road. Especially because there are so many of them. They cause jams. And they wear out the road surface much quicker than do passenger cars. Get 'm out.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Traffic congestion down 30%*

Traffic congestion is down by 30 percent, according to Rijkswaterstaat. The widening of motorways and additional shoulder running have significantly improved traffic flow. Congestion was reduced by 30 percent from July to half November, compared to 2010, when it was also down compared to 2009. Congestion is at its lowest level in 8 years, while traffic volumes increased by 2.2 percent at the same time.

Some figures:

Traffic volumes increased by 2.2% in Q3 2011. Vehicle lost hours declined by 25.2%. Traffic congestion was down by 33.6% in Q3. 

Highest congestion growth was on A9 between Haarlem and Alkmaar, due to roadworks. Lost vehicle hours increased by 94 000 hours. At the same time, the biggest winner is A12 between Utrecht and Gouda, where the single additional lane caused a reduction of 859 000 lost vehicle hours. 

64.5 billion vehicle kilometers from January to September 2011. An increase of 16% compared to the year 2000. 

58 million lost hours from January to September 2011, up 32% compared to 2000, but down 6.7% since January 1st and 25.2% down compared to a year ago. 

Worst congestion;

A13 Den Haag - Rotterdam
A4-A10 Badhoevedorp - Coen Tunnel & S110
A16-A20 Rotterdam Bypass

Biggest droppers:

* A1 Diemen - Hoevelaken -13.9%
* A6 Almere - Diemen -33.1%
* A6 Diemen - Almere -50.6%
* A2 Oudenrijn - Deil -56.4%
* A12 Oudenrijn - Gouwe -68.4%


----------



## snowdog

Slagathor said:


> Annoyingly, it rather does matter a lot for 2x2 motorways. Our driving on motorways depends in no small part on the entrance ramps (exits don't matter in this context). When new cars come on the motorway, we give them space by going left.


While this is nice when possible or to help a slow ecomobile on the motorway. this shouldn't happen. My driving instructor used to shout at me if I did that 2 and a half years ago, saying do not do that!

Cars from the sliproad joining the motorway have to give way to everyone else, it's THEIR problem joining the motorway, not the cars who are already on the motorway.



> That means several slower moving vehicles from the right lane suddenly pass onto the left lane.


Most morons who do this can't seem to judge the speed of the cars behind them on the left lane, causing them to slam on their anchors. I'd have no problem with it if people wouldn't impede the left lane traffic, but they often do, this should be dealt with with extra high fines, as should all ''give way'' mistakes. The right of way is the most important pillar of road rules/traffic law imo.



> You might argue that much of this problem could be erased if passenger cars could speed up to 140km/h on the entrance ramps, but that means extending many of them because many are not currently suitable for such a feat.


That's the governments fault, encouraging slow crappy ecomobiles. I mean I can't believe people buy cars who don't even do 100 kph in 15 seconds yet go on the motorway with them, unsuitable cars for the job imho and ruining the driving experience for the faster cars, such cars belong in the city, what they're designed to do in the first place. Snelwegen are for quicker and more refined cars, bigger hatchbacks, saloons, coupe's, etc. Touring cars, not city cars. ( obviously, I'd like this for personal reasons, doesn't mean it should be this way, I also think the road is for everyone, which is more important imo, there wouldn't be such a problem though if the roads had more capacity but, I wouldn't mind seeing people not hold up other people so much)


> That's a horrible idea. Trucks are responsible for enough deadly accidents as it is.


It's safe enough as it is imho. But, yeah I'd prefer not to see trucks on motorways, however, this is realistically not possible, unless a new network of ''supernselwegen'' appears only for cars. But I don't think the government can do that (ban the trucks) imho, none of their business.



> What you need to do is: remove the trucks. Freight should be transported by railway or waterway. The province of Zeeland had an interesting brainwave a few years ago when it was suggested to construct a cheap "conveyor belt" in the median of the A58 between the seaports of Vlissingen and Moerdijk. The conveyor belt would move shipping containers at a speed of up to 50km/h. The idea was to remove a huge amount of trucks off the road, thereby effectively canceling all congestion in the area. The idea never materialized, but frankly I don't understand why. It's ideal. We need to get the slow, heavy, dangerous trucks off the road. Especially because there are so many of them. They cause jams. And they wear out the road surface much quicker than do passenger cars. Get 'm out.


Truck: A to B, anywhere anytime.
Rail and Water: A via C via D to B.

Rail and water almost never brings goods from the place they are from to the place they need to be directly. You are limited to stations and ports. It is the same reason why anywhere but in the highest density places, public transport is absolute shite compared to private transport like Cars, Mopeds and (push)Bikes.

Besides, the government is earning a lot on the fuel duty of trucks. While having to invest extra in rail. Road transport is cheaper. I'd (personally) love to see trucks off the road for my own reasons but I don't see it ever happening nor do I think it's a good idea, not do I think the government should decide how free people in a free country move around, people and businesses should make their own choices and not listen to nanny state saying this and that is bad... :bash:





ChrisZwolle said:


> *Traffic congestion down 30%*
> 
> Traffic congestion is down by 30 percent, according to Rijkswaterstaat. The widening of motorways and additional shoulder running have significantly improved traffic flow. Congestion was reduced by 30 percent from July to half November, compared to 2010, when it was also down compared to 2009. Congestion is at its lowest level in 8 years, while traffic volumes increased by 2.2 percent at the same time.
> 
> Some figures:
> 
> Traffic volumes increased by 2.2% in Q3 2011. Vehicle lost hours declined by 25.2%. Traffic congestion was down by 33.6% in Q3.
> 
> Highest congestion growth was on A9 between Haarlem and Alkmaar, due to roadworks. Lost vehicle hours increased by 94 000 hours. At the same time, the biggest winner is A12 between Utrecht and Gouda, where the single additional lane caused a reduction of 859 000 lost vehicle hours.
> 
> 64.5 billion vehicle kilometers from January to September 2011. An increase of 16% compared to the year 2000.
> 
> 58 million lost hours from January to September 2011, up 32% compared to 2000, but down 6.7% since January 1st and 25.2% down compared to a year ago.
> 
> Worst congestion;
> 
> A13 Den Haag - Rotterdam
> A4-A10 Badhoevedorp - Coen Tunnel & S110
> A16-A20 Rotterdam Bypass
> 
> Biggest droppers:
> 
> * A1 Diemen - Hoevelaken -13.9%
> * A6 Almere - Diemen -33.1%
> * A6 Diemen - Almere -50.6%
> * A2 Oudenrijn - Deil -56.4%
> * A12 Oudenrijn - Gouwe -68.4%


Nice.

I live in the crappiest area though for traffic ( The A16 A20 bypass) and those are also the roads I mostly use to get to customers .

I hope the A16-A13 connection comes asap, the missing A4 link should hurry up too.


----------



## keokiracer

^^ Yeah, the A13-A16 should really come. In case you didn't know (I'm guessing you already do), the A4 will be opened for traffic in 2015. Do you know if there are any real plans for the Algerabrug (N210)? That's an incredible bottleneck, and when there's an accident, you have to drive around dozens of kilometers... Any plans for a A/N38 crossing the river from Ridderkerk towards Krimpen a/d IJssel maybe?


----------



## da_scotty

keokiracer said:


> ^^ Yeah, the A13-A16 should really come. In case you didn't know (I'm guessing you already do), the A4 will be opened for traffic in 2015. Do you know if there are any real plans for the Algerabrug (N210)? That's an incredible bottleneck, and when there's an accident, you have to drive around dozens of kilometers... Any plans for a A/N38 crossing the river from Ridderkerk towards Krimpen a/d IJssel maybe?


Wild speculations, but no actual plans hno:


----------



## aswnl

Fines will be raised from 1-1-'12 on:
Parking on a place for the disabled: from 180 to 340 euro
Holding a cellphone in your hand while driving: from 180 to 220 euro
Driving through a red light: from 180 to 220 euro
Honking unnecessarily: from 180 to 350 euro
Driving on a lane closed by an electronic sign with a red cross: from 180 to 220 euro
Not giving way to pedestrians on a zebra-crossing: from 180 to 340 euro
Not using your seatbelt: from 100 to 120 euro
Driving over a displacement field: from 180 to 220 euro
Driving with a leaking exhaust: from 200 to 240 euro
Driving while your windscreen isn't at least 55% clean: from 180 to 220 euro


----------



## Suburbanist

aswnl said:


> Driving over a displacement field: from 180 to 220 euro


What does this mean?


----------



## aswnl

Dashed part of the roadsurface where you are not allowed to drive, e.g. when a carriageway narrows from 3 to 2 lanes.
http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nl&ll...d=9Z6OxjVeOFRmUBn5UU0dnQ&cbp=12,211.38,,1,3.9


----------



## Highwaycrazy

We normally call them painted gores in the States. Are there any penalty points for these offenses?


----------



## keokiracer

Only beginner drivers can get points on their licenses, people who have had their drivers license for over 5 years, don't get points anymore


----------



## Paulie Walnuts

keokiracer said:


> Sorry, but if that's the real reason: that's bullcrap hno: (not meant for you ) And that's still no reason why the A2 is 100 (Near Maarssen it's because of environmental/sound issues), Between Maarssen and interchange Holendrecht there are 4 exits (Breukelen, rest area, Vinkeveen, Abcoude) in 20 km. That's 1 approx. every 5 km. (that's above average btw) You could easily drive 160 there outside rushhour...


Speed limit is not about what you can or cannot do. It's about what we all have decided is the safest speed in general. Of course there are situations when one can easily go 140. But what would be the consequence of such an approach? Different speeds limits everywhere, everytime. 

I agree that 100kmh is bullcrap, though. It should be in line with the normal limit, not lower.


----------



## Paulie Walnuts

aswnl said:


> Fines will be raised from 1-1-'12 on:
> Parking on a place for the disabled: from 180 to 340 euro
> Holding a cellphone in your hand while driving: from 180 to 220 euro
> Driving through a red light: from 180 to 220 euro
> Honking unnecessarily: from 180 to 350 euro
> Driving on a lane closed by an electronic sign with a red cross: from 180 to 220 euro
> Not giving way to pedestrians on a zebra-crossing: from 180 to 340 euro
> Not using your seatbelt: from 100 to 120 euro
> Driving over a displacement field: from 180 to 220 euro
> Driving with a leaking exhaust: from 200 to 240 euro
> Driving while your windscreen isn't at least 55% clean: from 180 to 220 euro


Insane numbers. Not yielding on a zebra = 340 euros? I never heard of anyone being fined for that. I bet the chance that anyone will get such a fine now is extrmely low..... In Dutch we call this 'symbol politics'.


----------



## Wilhem275

keokiracer said:


> Only beginner drivers can get points on their licenses, people who have had their drivers license for over 5 years, don't get points anymore


By "getting points" you mean they have a penalty?

I'm making a comparison with the Italian system, where you start with 20 points and for certain fines points are taken away from you, while for every year without mistakes you get +2 points, up to a max of 30.

Young drivers (less than 3 years) have doubled penalties.

I never understood why an "older" driver should be fined less than a younger one. In fact, I think an experienced driver is more aware of what he's doing, and if he commits a mistake he has a higher responsibility for not taking care!
I think it's the standard "I'm old so I'm right" crap.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Youths (18 - 25) are overrepresented in traffic fatality statistics. So are people who are over 65.


----------



## Wilhem275

That's a valid point. I still think a part of the younger's mistakes are due to poor driving school standards. I mean, here in Italy no driver has ever been instructed on how to merge and drive on a highway, or overtake another car, or drive on icy roads. Just class theory.

Damn, my sister is 19, has a licence, she drives better than the average driver, and still I wouldn't give her a license :lol:


----------



## keokiracer

Paulie Walnuts said:


> Speed limit is not about what you can or cannot do. It's about what we all have decided is the safest speed in general. Of course there are situations when one can easily go 140. But what would be the consequence of such an approach? Different speeds limits everywhere, everytime.
> 
> I agree that 100kmh is bullcrap, though. It should be in line with the normal limit, not lower.


We already have 130, 120 100 and 80. The speed limits are already different everywhere....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*130 km/h becomes the default speed limit*

Starting 1 september 2012, 130 km/h will become the default speed limit on Dutch motorways. The 130 km/h trials showed no significant impact on traffic safety or the environment. Almost equally important is that four out of five 80 km/h zones will disappear. Air quality improved enough to reinstate the 100 km/h speed limits. Only the 80 km/h zone at A20 Rotterdam will remain, awaiting further studies. The intention though, is to increase the limit to 100 km/h here too.

Furthermore, most 100 km/h zones in the Randstad metropolitan area will disappear on intercity motorways. There will be 100 - 130 km/h variable speed limits, not only during the night, but if possible also during the day if traffic allows. 

Only a small number of motorways will retain their 120 km/h limit, mostly because they've been designed in more recent years and do not allow for a safe 130 km/h limit. 

map:









green: 130 km/h 
red: 100 km/h
orange: 120 km/h
blue: variable 100 / 120 - 130 km/h. 
yellow: pending 130 km/h*

* based on more extensive surveying because they run near natura-2000 areas. Intention to make them all 130 km/h.


----------



## mappero

keokiracer said:


> Only beginner drivers can get points on their licenses, people who have had their drivers license for over 5 years, don't get points anymore


Stupid system. Rich drivers can easily don't follow the driving rules... If you have enough in your pocket you don't have to obey the law.


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## Gereke

What do you mean? There is no corruption in this country, so also rich people get their points en lose their driving license. A lot of money can't save them.


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## keokiracer

He means that when you have your license for over 5 years, you just can drive as fast as you can because you have enough money.

@Chris: Good news kay:


----------



## keokiracer

Advancer said:


> Yes but knowing us dutch I don't think that the new a13/a16 will have much use if you have to pay toll for it and the alternative isn't much slower and free.


True, my parents wont take the A13-A16 either because of the toll 



Advancer said:


> But make atleast the a13 by overschie toll, so that more people will choose to take the a13/a16 or a4 depending from where they are travelling


I actually don't think that's a bad idea at all, but only if the A13-A16 is 3 lanes. And the A4 should be 3 lanes too (should already be, because there are gonna be 100.000 vehicles driving on 2x2....)


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## Slagathor

If I have to start paying toll for every damn stretch of motorway in this part of the country, then I want the car ownership tax to disappear. This is just stupid.


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## woutero

I think somewhere in the process the toll on the A13/A16 will be scrapped. There is a lot of local interest in diverting traffic off the old A13 through Overschie to the new connection. 

The use of the new connection is more beneficial to the environment than it is to the road user. So I think this new connection should be made as attractive as possible. It would make more sense to pay toll if you keep using the old A13 through Overschie.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I concur. Tolls on the A13-A16 link don't make sense, nobody would use it unless there's extreme congestion on A20. If you want to get the maximum potential out of this link, it should remain toll free. 

The A24 however, can be tolled without much problems, as long as the tolls are acceptable. The Benelux Tunnel was also initially tolled. Maybe they should use the savings on the A4 Delft - Schiedam project (from the looks of it over € 300 million) on the A13-A16 link. 

I also think A13 should be widened to 2x5 lanes.


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## andy5

The M6 Toll in the UK has always had less traffic than forecast.

And then of course the company running it has increased the tolls to try to produce more income ...


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## sotonsi

The toll increase on the M6 Toll is more to do with reducing costs (wear and tear, staff manning booths) by keeping traffic down. They decided that they will not get enough traffic to pay their debts back, so it's damage limitation and have 100 people paying £5, rather than 500 paying £1 and having higher costs to maintain.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A2 's-Hertogenbosch - Eindhoven*

The Council of State has denied a preliminary injunction relief to prohibit the widening of the A2 between 's-Hertogenbosch and Eindhoven to 2x3 lanes. This means preliminary construction can go ahead, pending the final Council of State judgment dealing with the appeals against the record of decision. The road widening will begin next Tuesday.


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## ChrisZwolle

A13-A16 Rotterdam link map:


----------



## Coccodrillo

Why did they choose a path near the airport, preventing it from possible future expansions? Will the tunnel be above or below ground level?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The will build the link across an existing road in the Airport area, to minimize impact on the remaining undeveloped areas in that region. The tunnel will be at grade, which means there will be a small hill across the area of about 7 m high (just 1 or 2 m above sea level though).


----------



## Koesj

Coccodrillo said:


> Why did they choose a path near the airport, preventing it from possible future expansions? Will the tunnel be above or below ground level?


There's lots of spare capacity at the airport and in the current environmental climate it will never be used up so expansion isn't an issue. You'll probably see Schiphol, Eindhoven, Lelystad, Twente and Groningen expanded earlier than there even being a new terminal at RTM.


----------



## woutero

Indeed. There is no need to expand the airport. There are about 50.000 flight movements yearly and just over 1 million passengers. It is used a lot for corporate flights (Shell and other big companies), and has regular links to London City. It is also used by our government plane. For the rest it is used by low-cost airlines (Transavia.com).

Most general passengers from the area use Schiphol Airport. 
From Rotterdam Central it takes about 25 mins to get to 'Rotterdam-The Hague Airport' by bus, but it also takes 25 minutes to get to Schiphol by train. 
From The Hague Central it is 45 minutes to 'Rotterdam-The Hague Airport' by metro+shuttle, but only 30 minutes to Schiphol by train.


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ Still, I think a bigger 2nd airport is needed for Netherlands. That would be Lelystad, but things are going slow there.


----------



## mappero

woutero said:


> Indeed. There is no need to expand the airport. There are about 50.000 flight movements yearly and just over 1 million passengers. It is used a lot for corporate flights (Shell and other big companies), and has regular links to London City. It is also used by our government plane. For the rest it is used by low-cost airlines (Transavia.com).
> 
> Most general passengers from the area use Schiphol Airport.
> From Rotterdam Central it takes about 25 mins to get to 'Rotterdam-The Hague Airport' by bus, but it also takes 25 minutes to get to Schiphol by train.
> From The Hague Central it is 45 minutes to 'Rotterdam-The Hague Airport' by metro+shuttle, but only 30 minutes to Schiphol by train.


Everyone one who use Rotterdam Airport knows the size of airport is pros. Really fast check-in as fast as in LCW is very convenient for business purposes. I am happy if this airport could stay as it is.

Lelystad should be ready 10 years ago. The closest airport for people living in Groningen/Drenthe is Bremen.


----------



## keokiracer

mappero said:


> Lelystad should be ready 10 years ago. The closest airport for people living in Groningen/Drenthe is Bremen.


Isn't the closest Groningen-Eelde airport? And there also is Twente airport, both of them have commercial flights.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Came across this thread on a cycling forum I'm on and would like to know more about the Govt. considering allowing cyclists to use the road if the bike paths are too crowded. Unfortunately, the video that the OP used is no longer there/available.

Link to the thread:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/699665-Dutch-may-allow-roadway-cycling-as-overcrowded-cycling-paths-leads-to-safety-issues


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are no real capacity issues on bicycle paths. They are usually wide enough to support two cyclists in each direction. Some traffic light-controlled intersections have a problem with throughput, but this is not on a large scale. The main problem is actually parking outside designated areas and conflicts with mopeds and scooters.


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## Fargo Wolf

I guess the problem would be more in urban areas, where the ability to expand capacity is limited, if not impossible.

This is from a Dutch fellow called Markenlei on YouTube. Some of the vids in the playlist some of the more congested paths.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF2C046E49FA49F5A&feature=plcp

The Dutch are awesome at accommodating BOTH cycling and driving and making it look easy at that.  :cheers:


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ It is unlikely that would happen, as it would create severe safety hazards. I read some of the posts on that forum, sometimes "bike activists" from the other side of the pond like to be more Dutch than people living here. Usually because of misconceived ideas about how things operate in Netherlands.

In cities/areas where many people drive, cyclists are faced with issues that are common to drivers on full roads or pedestrians on crowded streets:

- you can't go as fast as you want (if you use to ride the bike faster than average)

- you will feel "pressed" to rush up if you are too slow (consider the country is 90% flat, literally) 

- you will not have the right of way all the time (meaning: you might need to actually stop on yield signs for pedestrians and vehicles).

Some cyclists in US behave very badly, they treat other users of roads like trucks, pedestrians and especially cars as "enemies", though they usually lash on pedestrians "demanding" they open space for them on the sidewalk.


----------



## Road_UK

keokiracer said:


> Isn't the closest Groningen-Eelde airport? And there also is Twente airport, both of them have commercial flights.


Yep. And I will be using that a lot now, as Transavia now offers flights from Innsbruck to Groningen direct. (as well as Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Eindhoven) Makes it easier for me to visit my family in Sneek. I don't think the Netherlands needs a second major airport. Duesseldorf and Brussels offer great alternatives. It's only a small country.


----------



## Mr_Dru

Agnette said:


> Chris can You explain this sign? What does it mean?:


It warns you that the police has (hidden) cameras here on this track to control the speed limits.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's more a motto sign than anything else. As far as I know there are no fixed speed cameras along that section of A12. The nearby town of Driebergen is the headquarters of the highway police. They can almost do speed checks from their office.


----------



## Agnette

/\ Does it mean that cameras mounted in the police cars?


----------



## keokiracer

^^ No, they usually stand on the side of the road behind some bush... But there are some cars with cams in The Netherlands (used for tv programs as Blik op de Weg (Eye on the road) and Wegmisbruikers (Road abusers))

Example:


----------



## temlin

Wegmisbruikers:


----------



## keokiracer

Old episode of blik op de weg (1996):





Recent episode, from when a part f the Twente stadium collapsed:


----------



## ptscout

Provida is also very usual in Germany and Denmark, but not only for TV-Shows.
Fix Speedcams were in France announced until this year.


----------



## keokiracer

My newest video. Finally a new one. Thanks to my new computer I can finally upload videos again. The old computer took way to much time uploading vids (could go up to 5 hrs for a 4-minute-video). Sadly I did lose a lot of my old videos which were on my old computer (which crashed because my cat spilled water over it, and sadly that's not a joke.... :bash:hno, and I lost all those vids, Luckily I had a lot of them on my camera. This computer is way faster. More videos will follow later 

This time we're driving over the downgraded N289 through Hoogerheide. A new bypass was opened 2 years ago so the old route could be downgraded. Here's the result


----------



## Godius

Agnette said:


> Chris can You explain this sign? What does it mean?:


It is surprising to me why they use English on the signboard above the road instead of proper Dutch.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Because there are more drivers on the road than Dutch speaking people, and 24 h is a pretty common notation.


----------



## Godius

If you hold to this reasoning, then it would be better to put the texts in German on the signs. The majority of the users of the roads are Germanic (group).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

24/7 would be even better, but 24h is universally understood. 24 stunden is not.


----------



## Godius

ChrisZwolle said:


> 24/7 would be even better, but 24h is universally understood. 24 stunden is not.


Don't tell me that no one would understand '24u geopend/24 uur open/etc..'.


----------



## aswnl

The symbol "h" (non-SI time unit) means the same as 3600s (SI). "h" is an internationally adopted symbol, also by The Netherlands. "h" is also approved by the _Bureau international des poids et mesures_ in France to be used togheter with SI-measurements. The Dutch law "IJkwet" made those SI-standards in the Netherlands mandatory in 1978. So yes, 24h is proper Dutch.

And for signage there's a rule: the less on the sign, the better.
Don't tell me that no one would understand "open 24h" as for being open every hour of the day.


----------



## Glodenox

Also important to remark to the non-Dutch speakers: "open" means the same thing in Dutch as it does in English. So it's not looked at as a foreign language in the Netherlands


----------



## Road_UK

In Poland and Czech Republic they say: Open Nonstop.


----------



## Godius

aswnl said:


> The symbol "h" (non-SI time unit) means the same as 3600s (SI). "h" is an internationally adopted symbol, also by The Netherlands. "h" is also approved by the _Bureau international des poids et mesures_ in France to be used togheter with SI-measurements. The Dutch law "IJkwet" made those SI-standards in the Netherlands mandatory in 1978. So yes, 24h is proper Dutch.
> 
> And for signage there's a rule: the less on the sign, the better.
> Don't tell me that no one would understand "open 24h" as for being open every hour of the day.


I wasn't aware of that, thanks for the info. 
My point was that the Dutch text could be as easily understood as the English one. 24h isn't proper dutch, it is an accepted Loanword. 24u or 24 uur is proper Dutch.


----------



## italystf

24h is clearely understood everywhere in the world, 0-24 and 24/7 too, as well km for kilometers, WC for toilet,... signs should be clear for everywere not like the Italians "tutte le direzioni", "eccetto residenti e autorizzati", "zona a traffico limitato" and many others.


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## mgk920

There is also lingering resistance to replacing English-language text-based warning and other related signage with symbol signs here in the USA. For example, the USA's Federal Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) still does not adopt symbols for such warnings as 'WATCH FOR STOPPED/CONGESTED TRAFFIC', 'STRONG CROSSWINDS', 'NO OUTLET', etc.

The USA only adopted the three-arrow 'roundabout' symbol within the past 5-10 years, too.

Mike


----------



## italystf

mgk920 said:


> There is also lingering resistance to replacing English-language text-based warning and other related signage with symbol signs here in the USA. For example, the USA's Federal Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) still does not adopt symbols for such warnings as 'WATCH FOR STOPPED/CONGESTED TRAFFIC', 'STRONG CROSSWINDS', 'NO OUTLET', etc.
> 
> The USA only adopted the three-arrow 'roundabout' symbol within the past 5-10 years, too.
> 
> Mike


American situation is very different from the European one. In the old continent we speak several different language within few hundreds of km. Everything should be written in both local language and English but using symbols is even better.


----------



## Road_UK

italystf said:


> American situation is very different from the European one. In the old continent we speak several different language within few hundreds of km. Everything should be written in both local language and English but using symbols is even better.


I really like the Italian symbols. The one that says that there are no road markings for example: A sign with a paint brush on it...


----------



## italystf

Road_UK said:


> I really like the Italian symbols. The one that says that there are no road markings for example: A sign with a paint brush on it...


Yeah, symbols are very clear. But I was referring to written texts in Italian only.


----------



## Slagathor

Senso unico parallelo pisses me off. I used to live in Naples, you can only ever turn left there and you can never go home


----------



## italystf

Slagathor said:


> Senso unico parallelo pisses me off. I used to live in Naples, you can only ever turn left there and you can never go home


You mean this?








It had been replaced by the one below in 1992, although is still possible see it in some places:








IMHO the new one is better because more "international".


----------



## Slagathor

Yeah that's the one, alright. Is it possible that some places use the new sign but add a second sign with the Italian "Senso unico" underneath? I think I may have seen it... Or maybe it only exists in my mind.


----------



## italystf

Slagathor said:


> Yeah that's the one, alright. Is it possible that some places use the new sign but add a second sign with the Italian "Senso unico" underneath? I think I may have seen it... Or maybe it only exists in my mind.


Wow, that would be absurd and useless, never seen anywhere. But since everything is possible with Italian signage expecially in the south it may be possible.


----------



## Slagathor

Well maybe I'm just confusing it with the old sign. Let's not pass a verdict on the Mezzogiorno just yet


----------



## Attus

Absolute off topic but there was a case 20-30 years ago, a Hungarian tourist got lost in Rome. She had the embassy's phone number and called them for getting help. The officer asked: 'Where are you now, Madame? Please check street name signs!'. And the answer was: 'I can clearly see the sign, I'm in Senso Unico street!'.


----------



## Road_UK

Same joke applies to the American that got lost in the Einbahnstrasse somewhere in Germany...


----------



## MattiG

Road_UK said:


> Same joke applies to the American that got lost in the Einbahnstrasse somewhere in Germany...


...in the city of Ausfahrt.


----------



## italystf

MattiG said:


> ...in the city of Ausfahrt.


Once I eavesdropped a conversation in a restaurant about people who got lost in Austria and said: 'how long is that city, it has many exits.'


----------



## Penn's Woods

Glodenox said:


> Also important to remark to the non-Dutch speakers: "open" means the same thing in Dutch as it does in English. So it's not looked at as a foreign language in the Netherlands


I was about to ask - I can't make the sign out clearly. It says "open 24h"? So what's the issue, the "h"?


----------



## Penn's Woods

italystf said:


> 24h is clearely understood everywhere in the world, 0-24 and 24/7 too, as well km for kilometers, WC for toilet,... signs should be clear for everywere not like the Italians "tutte le direzioni", "eccetto residenti e autorizzati", "zona a traffico limitato" and many others.


"0-24" wouldn't be obvious to me, actually. Perhaps because Americans mostly use the 12-hour clock. (It's currently 6:46 p.m. here, for example). We do this sort of thing specifically to annoy Continentals. ;-)


----------



## GROBIN

MattiG said:


> ...in the city of Ausfahrt.


Like in the Netherlands, in the city of UIT :lol:


----------



## MattiG

Penn's Woods said:


> "0-24" wouldn't be obvious to me, actually. Perhaps because Americans mostly use the 12-hour clock. (It's currently 6:46 p.m. here, for example). We do this sort of thing specifically to annoy Continentals. ;-)


The Americans tend to use an expression "24 hours" rather frequently instead of "one day". That is why I do not believe the expression 0-24 would be a complete disaster to be understood.

Anyway, using symbols instead of text is rather obvious in Europe because of dozens of languages belonging to several language families. For example, the following signs would be somewhat challenging to foreigners:


----------



## GROBIN

There are some exceptions within Europe. I'm wondering what *Penn's Woods* may think about it.

In France, for instance, these 2 irritating signs:

















Moroccans understood it much better than us, Frenchies :









Spaniards even better:


Aokromes said:


> (...)
> Entrada al tunel de 503 metros, marcado como 500 y cumpliendo solo 9 de las 27 medidas de seguridad que tendria que cumplir.
> 
> 
> 
> (...)


(sorry for carrying on this OT)

How does it look in the Netherlands ? I've never seen such sign there.


----------



## petertenthije

GROBIN said:


> How does it look in the Netherlands ? I've never seen such sign there.


Same as in Morocco, combination of symbol and Dutch text ("ontsteek uw lichten"). See for instance here in front of the Schipholtunnel:

http://maps.google.com/?ll=52.31215...id=fN-JEN_kocC-a9aVnKdfog&cbp=12,48.75,,0,6.4


----------



## Glodenox

And this is what it looks like in Belgium: "Lichten aan" with a symbol:

http://maps.google.com/?ll=51.17073...bp=13,-345.8645064584303,,0,8.219882552244016


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Time for a lookback at what was achieved in the Netherlands this year;

* road widenings completed:

* A1 Watergraafsmeer - Diemen: shoulder running
* A1 Diemen - Muiderberg: 2nd reversible lane
* A1 Bussum - Eemnes: shoulder running
* A2 Holendrecht - Maarssen: widening to 2x5 lanes completed
* A2 Maarssen - Oudenrijn: temporary 2x4 widening completed
* A2 Oudenrijn - Everdingen: widening to 2x4 lanes completed
* A4 De Nieuwe Meer - Badhoevedorp: shoulder running
* A9 Badhoevedorp - velsen: shoulder running
* A9 Uitgeest - Alkmaar: shoulder running
* A10: Amsterdam-Zuid: shoulder running
* A12: Zoetermeer: shoulder running
* A27: Everdingen - Lunetten: shoulder running
* A28: Zwolle - Meppel: widening to 2x3/2x4 lanes completed
* A50: Valburg - Grijsoord: widening to 2x3 lanes completed

Motorways widened: 79 kilometers (192 lane kilometers)
Shoulder running added: 54 kilometers (95 shoulder kilometers)

New motorways: 0 kilometers

Milestones:

* record of decision: A4 Dinteloord - Halsteren (new 2x2)
* record of decision: A1/A6/A9 Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere flagship megaproject (widening)
* record of decision: A2 's-Hertogenbosch - Eindhoven widening (2x3)
* record of decision: A12 Ede - Grijsoord widening (2x3)
* preferred alternative: A24 Blankenburg Tunnel (2x3, Rotterdam)
* preferred alternative: A13-A16 link (2x2, Rotterdam)
* preferred alternative: A4 Den Haag bypass widening (local-express)

******

2012:

Projects planned to be completed in 2012:

* A2: opening tunnel Leidsche Rijn (10 lanes)
* A5: Raasdorp - Coen Tunnel (2x2 lanes, new motorway, unlikely to be put into service before 2013)
* A10: Second Coen Tunnel (widening from 4 to 9 lanes, unlikely to be put into service before 2013)
* A12: Gouda - Woerden: 4th eastbound lane
* A12: Waterberg - Velperbroek: widening to 2x3 lanes
* A27: Lunetten - Rijnsweerd: widening to 6 northbound lanes
* A28: Utrecht - Amersfoort: widening to 2x3 lanes
* A28: Amersfoort bypass: shoulder running (temporary)
* A74: Venlo - Germany link, 2x2 lanes, new motorway (likely to open in April 2012)

Projects planned to start construction;

* A1 Watergraafsmeer - Diemen: widening to 2x4 lanes
* A1 Diemen - Muiderberg: widening to 12 lanes
* A2 's-Hertogenbosch - Eindhoven: widening to 2x3 lanes
* A4 Delft - Schiedam: 2+3 lanes, new motorway
* A4 Dinteloord - Halsteren: 2x2 lanes, new motorway
* A10 Amstel - Watergraafsmeer: widening to 2x4 lanes
* A12 Ede - Grijsoord: widening to 2x3 lanes
* A15: Maasvlakte - Vaanplein: widening to 10 lanes (preperatory works already commenced)
* N31: Leeuwarden bypass (2x2 expressway)
* N61: Hoek - Schoondijke: new 2x2 expressway
* N62: Sluiskil Tunnel near Terneuzen (2x2 lanes)
* N62: Westerschelde Tunnel - A58 upgrade (2x2 lanes)


----------



## Jeroen669

italystf said:


> Wow, that would be absurd and useless, never seen anywhere. But since everything is possible with Italian signage expecially in the south it may be possible.


Just as useless as the French ´cedez le passage´ titles underneath triangle signs.



GROBIN said:


> In France, for instance, these 2 irritating signs:


The french don't understand it either, since I don't see many people putting their headlights on in the small tunnels on the BP, for instance.

The french also use the textual sign: 'Voie véhicules lentements' (slow vehicle lane) with the same lay-out. That would be harder to symbolize, though.


----------



## Penn's Woods

MattiG said:


> The Americans tend to use an expression "24 hours" rather frequently instead of "one day". That is why I do not believe the expression 0-24 would be a complete disaster to be understood.
> 
> Anyway, using symbols instead of text is rather obvious in Europe because of dozens of languages belonging to several language families. For example, the following signs would be somewhat challenging to foreigners:


Well, I suppose "open 0-24" would be obvious if you thought about it for a second. "0-24" out of context wouldnt be, but everyone understands "24/7."


----------



## Penn's Woods

GROBIN said:


> There are some exceptions within Europe. I'm wondering what *Penn's Woods* may think about it.
> 
> In France, for instance, these 2 irritating signs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....


I'm nearly fluent in French, so personally, pas de problème avec those signs. (I went to Montreal with my parents once, and they insisted I do all the driving in Quebec. "We're not going to drive in a foreign country," Mom said. Which is bizarre, since they'd done plenty of driving in Europe....)

I just store that sort of thing up as examples for when Europeans insist they don't use text for anything essential. :-D


----------



## MattiG

Penn's Woods said:


> Well, I suppose "open 0-24" would be obvious if you thought about it for a second. "0-24" out of context wouldnt be, but everyone understands "24/7."


But 24/7 is not the same thing as 0-24. The latter often means Monday to Friday. 24/7 equals to "always", which is the default, hence usually not shown in the signs.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Um, okay. Never would have occurred to me. Which I think illustrates the weakness of relying on this sort of thing.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Congestion down one quarter in 2011*

The Traffic Information Center (VID) reports traffic congestion was down 24.1% in 2011, reaching the level of around the year 2000, a reduction never seen before, which can be almost completely attributed to additional highway capacity. 7 out of the 10 worst spots from 2010 dropped in congestion, good for 16 out of the 24% reduction. The traffic jam top 50 has never seen such a change as last year. 22 new locations went into the top 50, as many old spots dropped out. The two worst congestion spots are those where road widening works are currently in progress on A4 and A50.









statistics by VID: http://www.vid.nl/top50.html


----------



## GROBIN

^^

Good argument for Dutch drivers wanting default (& not just short test zones) 130 km/h limit instead of 120.


----------



## Godius

GROBIN said:


> ^^
> 
> Good argument for Dutch drivers wanting default (& not just short test zones) 130 km/h limit instead of 120.


This decrease of traffic congestion has nothing to do with speed limits, the addition of highway capacity is the main reason of less congestion last year.


----------



## GROBIN

^^

I know that ! I understood *ChrisZwolle*'s post ! But I meant what I wrote above as a consequence of the congestion decrease.

P.S.: I'm surprised you guys still want to use your cars with what *ChrisZwolle* wrote on the _Italian autostrade and superstrade_ section about your road taxes !


----------



## Godius

GROBIN said:


> ^^
> 
> I know that ! I understood *ChrisZwolle*'s post ! But I meant what I wrote above as a consequence of the congestion decrease.
> section about your road taxes !


I'm sorry, I think I've misunderstood your reply (#6506).


----------



## GROBIN

Godius said:


> I'm sorry, I think I've misunderstood your reply (#6506).


Maybe because the way I wrote was fairly unclear


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Largest road investment ever greenlit*

The Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere megaproject has gotten the green light today. All 41 appeals against the record of decision were rejected by the Council of State today. This means the € 4.4 billion project can proceed. Construction is expected to begin almost immediately. 

The project consists of the upgrading of the A1-A6-A9/A10 corridor between Schiphol Airport, Amsterdam and Almere, by adding signicant road capacity. Construction will begin early 2012 and be completed around 2018 - 2020. It will be phased, starting in Amsterdam and turn eastwards towards Almere, then proceeding along A9.

The A1 motorway will be widened to as much as 12 lanes, with 2x5 lanes, 2 reversible lanes and 2 bus lanes. This section is forecasted to carry 317 000 vehicles per day by 2035. 

The A6 motorway will be widened from 2x3 to a 12-lane setup with 3+2+2+2+3 lanes, also with reversible lanes to Almere, and 4x2 lanes until the northeast side of Almere.

The A9 will be widened to as much as 12 lanes in Amsterdam-Zuidoost, partially within a land tunnel. This section will also get reversible lanes. Furthermore, the A9 will be widened to 2x4 lanes westwards to Badhoevedorp, also with a land tunnel in Amstelveen. Finally, the A10 will be widened to 2x4 lanes in eastern Amsterdam. 

All interchanges will be rebuild. Over 100 bridges, overpasses and tunnels will be reconstructed. 

The massive road project is an answer to the 2006 canceling of a 2x2 motorway between A6 and A9, southeast of Amsterdam. The result is a far more impressive motorway project, adding hundreds of additional lane kilometers.

Project extents:


----------



## Slagathor

Sweet fancy Moses :banana:


----------



## Bobek_Azbest

Holy crap! 











ChrisZwolle said:


> The A1 motorway will be widened to as much as 12 lanes, with 2x5 lanes, 2 reversible lanes and 2 bus lanes.


I'm a bit lost here, does this mean the bus lanes are included in the 2x5 setup and then there are additional reversible lanes, ultimately creating 12 lanes?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

2 additional bus lanes. So that would mean 14 lanes total


----------



## Bobek_Azbest

Ah, the other option.  Thanks.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Here's a map of the Hollandse Brug, a bridge that connects Flevoland and North Holland provinces, immediately south of Almere.

The western (top) bridge is currently in use in both directions. The eastern bridge will be a completely new one. The bridge will feature 10 motorway lanes, a two-lane local road and a double bus lanes, hence 14 lanes. Just north of the bridge (right on the image) there are 12 motorway lanes as it approaches the local-express setup around Almere.

Immediately west of the existing bridge is a two-track railway bridge, but it's not very well visible on the image. There have been talks about widening the railway to 4 tracks, probably by adding another railway bridge to the west, but this is currently not planned yet (though seen as a vision for the future).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A map of the new Muiden aquaduct. To the left is Amsterdam, to the right Almere / Amersfoort.

The aquaduct will have 5 lanes each way, plus a two-lane reversible, enabling 7 lanes in the peak direction. And from the looks of it, it has space for 2x6 lanes (or a wider reversible). Of interesting note, the two-lane busway has been scrapped from the aquaduct compared to the initial design. Weird that I didn't notice this before. 










This is the A1/A6 interchange Muiderberg. This section features up to 6 lanes each way before/after the interchange, plus a two-lane reversible. That's 14 lanes for you. The double bus lane further west has been scrapped, it was originally planned to feature it all the way west towards Amsterdam, but probably cut because it's somewhat overkill because the A1 won't be very congested anymore with this amount of capacity.










Here we have the approach to interchange Diemen, the widest section of the entire SAA project. It's just west of a new interchange and features 2 bus lanes, 2 merging lanes from the exit, 6 mainline lanes, 2 reversible lanes, another 6 mainline lanes and 2 merging lanes to the exit. That's a grand total of 20 lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A study by the Dutch transportation institute KIM found out the following things about mobility and fuel prices:



Car drivers do not drive significantly less when fuel prices at the pump rise. If fuel prices increase by approximately 12.5 percent, the long-term decrease in passenger car kilometres travelled is 2.5 percent. Higher fuel prices have also not resulted in a more fuel-efficient ‘car fleet’. The car-fleet specific fuel consumption remained relatively constant from the late 1980s to 2009.

During 2011, fuel prices at the pump surpassed the record highs set in 2008. The question arises as to what extent high fuel prices influence the number of car kilometres travelled. This study revealed that automobility, in economic terms, is an „inelastic. product. That is to say that a change in fuel price has a relatively minor effect on the number of car kilometres travelled. This study is based on data derived from the period 1980 to 2009.

Consumers usually react more strongly to luxury good price changes than they do to the price changes of necessary products. The slight price elasticity clearly reveals that for many people car use is deemed a necessary product.

*Slight reduction in number of kilometres*
What are the long term consequences of a sharp rise in the price of crude oil? In the first instance, if the price of a barrel of crude oil increases from $70 to $100 USD dollars, the price of gasoline will increase by approximately 12.5 percent. Based on this study's findings, the price increase over the long term (5 to 10 years) will result in a 2.5 percent reduction in the number of car kilometres travelled.

A price rise has a greater impact on the long-term than the short-term. In the short-term, car drivers will travel fewer kilometres or alter their driving style („foot off the gas pedal.). In the long-term, people can also reduce their home-to-work travel by more often working from home or by residing closer to their workplaces or purchasing more fuel-efficient cars.

*Car fleet not more fuel-efficient, owing to increased power and luxury cars*
This study not only examined the impact higher fuel prices have on the number of car kilometres travelled, but also the effect this has on the fuel-efficiency of the „car fleet‟. For car drivers, the specific fuel cost is dependent on the price of fuel and the specific fuel consumption. If the price of fuel increases, this does not, by definition, result in higher specific fuel costs. By driving more fuel-efficient cars, car drivers can mitigate part of the price increase.

The analysis does not point toward a more car-fleet specific fuel consumption emerging as a consequence of higher fuel prices at the pump. The trend for larger cars (increased power) and more comfort (electric windows, airconditioning) has offset improvements in fuel efficiency technology. The result is that from the late 1980s to 2009 the specific fuel consumption has remained virtually constant, recent years have seen a marked improvement in the specific fuel consumption, as measured in new-car specific CO2 emission. Additional research into the underlying factors for development of fuel-efficient passenger cars therefore also seems pertinent.

*Effects less pronounced than previously indicated*
The majority of the definite effects of higher fuel prices revealed in the study were less pronounced than the effects previously cited in the available literature, especially with regard to the long-term effects.

An analysis of the annual figures compiled for the period 1980 to 2009, including figures pertaining to fuel prices and costs, further indicate that economic growth and the supply of new road capacity present a satisfactory explanation for the total number of gasoline-fuelled passenger car kilometres travelled.​
http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/ministe.../over-brandstofprijzen-en-automobiliteit.html




This is some interesting stuff, because previously the "electronic road pricing" concept was seen as a major factor to reduce traffic congestion. But as fuel price increases have no significant effect on the vehicle kilometers driven, why would road pricing have? It's just the same, but instead of increasing fuel cost, it's increasing taxes.


----------



## De Klauw

^^Work related traffic will probably not effected by higher fuel prices and "electronic road pricing". But I'm sure it will reduce leisure traffic.


----------



## Gereke

ChrisZwolle said:


> A map of the new Muiden aquaduct. To the left is Amsterdam, to the right Almere / Amersfoort.


Chris, on which website are all these documents?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Gereke said:


> Chris, on which website are all these documents?


They are a part of the Record of Decision (ROD, Dutch: Tracébesluit). 

You may be able to find it in the http://www.centrumpp.nl/ archive.


----------



## Gereke

Thanks!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Major problems in Eindhoven, a suspended bicycle circle above a road intersection is on the verge of collapsing. The road has been shut down and traffic is diverted. The bicycle circle is currently still under construction. This appears to be a major design flaw.


----------



## Shifty2k5

What does the "7000-7500" underneath Eindhoven refer to?


----------



## keokiracer

^^ Industrial areas.


----------



## Suburbanist

Shifty2k5 said:


> What does the "7000-7500" underneath Eindhoven refer to?


In all major Dutch cities (and also in Rotterdam Port) they use numbers from 0000-9999 to designated industrial areas.

That makes it fairly easy (if one wants to follow truck routes) to reach such areas from the highways without getting stuck in narrow inner city streets. I guess the "tradition"steems from the past, before GPS units, so that you didn't need to bother with the specifics of an industrial park, just followed the signs according to the numbers.

Rotterdam docks are numbered the same way. But the scale of things there is 2 orders of magnitude bigger...


----------



## keokiracer

^^ In southern-Limburg the numbers go up to 27.000 if I remember correctly.


----------



## Road_UK

So if you want to go to 7000, you head towards Meerhoven. And if you want to go to 7000, you head towards Eindhoven.


----------



## keokiracer

^^ There is no number 7000 

They usually take steps of 5 (1025-1030-1035) or 10 at a time to number industrial houses. Which means that when you have number 1200, your neighbour will have 1205 or 1210. They also don't use the 'border-numbers' (in this case 7000).


----------



## mgk920

ChrisZwolle said:


> Major problems in Eindhoven, a suspended bicycle circle above a road intersection is on the verge of collapsing. The road has been shut down and traffic is diverted. The bicycle circle is currently still under construction. This appears to be a major design flaw.


What's the specific flaw? (Did someone forget to carry the '2' in a calculation??? :nono: )

Mike


----------



## woutero

A suspended hovering bicycle roundabout?! Well, there's something I've never seen before...


----------



## keokiracer

mgk920 said:


> What's the specific flaw? (Did someone forget to carry the '2' in a calculation??? :nono: )
> 
> Mike


The ropes which suspend the bicycle circle are shaking too much when there is a lot of wind. 

Conclusion: The ropes aren't strong enough... :doh:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well it's not the first time we built some extravaganza bicycle infrastructure.

For instance this 300 meter, € 21 million bicycle bridge span next to A1 near Muiden (foreground)









Or this bicycle bridge across A12 near Zoetermeer.

fietsbrug by zoetnet, on Flickr

Or this bridge across N331 in Zwolle.

Fietsbrug by Fietsberaad, on Flickr

Or this one in Maastricht.

Fietsbrug by Fietsberaad, on Flickr


----------



## woutero

Just thought I'd share this vid: in 2 mins from the center of Amsterdam to Vianen, just south of Utrecht via Haarlemmerweg, A10 and A2. Video by Thomas Schlijper, an Amsterdam based photographer (www.schlijper.nl).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kerensheide interchange flyover progress.


----------



## Highwaycrazy

^^
That's a factory in the background, right?


----------



## keokiracer

^^ Yep.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM_(company)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yep, Chemelot. The photo covers just about one third of the total industrial complex. It spans for almost 5 kilometers along A2. It may be the biggest industrial complex outside the Port of Rotterdam area.


----------



## Wuppeltje

It is about the same size as Tata Steel IJmuiden.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N31 Harlingen*

The design-record of decision for the widening of N31 through the town of Harlingen, Fryslân province, has been published today.










The N31 will be widened from 1x2 to 2x2 lanes. The road will be depressed through Harlingen, at -4.6 meters. There will be one interchange to serve the city, instead of several ramps spread out along the corridor. The crossing with the Van Harinxma shipping canal will be an aquaduct, where the N31 will run at -10.0 meters. The whole depressed route is 1.8 kilometers long. This is the final project to widen N31 to a motorway or a 2x2, limited access expressway. Construction is expected to begin in 2013. The project is due for completion in 2017 and cost € 143 million.


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ Isn't that acquaduct an overkill? N31 crosses that canal near an industrial zone that is not even part of "old" Harlingen. But, apparently, acquaducts are the new Fryslând windmills: popping everywhere.


----------



## Coccodrillo

Why building a trench in the difficult Dutch terrain, instead of a bypass in the fields outside the town?

Another question: does anyone have photos of the new landtunnel in Utrecht, maybe also showing the outside' Will it be covered by grass to make it resemble a hill?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A new alignment east of Harlingen was considered, however it would still need an aquaduct, as a high bridge is considered horizon pollution in the flat open spaces of Fryslân. Furthermore, the road needed to be longer than the original road, increasing cost, while the original road must've been retained anyway for traffic to and from Harlingen, thus the barrier the elevated road currently is, would remain. This is a better solution for both Harlingen and traffic interests.


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> A new alignment east of Harlingen was considered, however it would still need an aquaduct, as a high bridge is considered horizon pollution in the flat open spaces of Fryslân. Furthermore, the road needed to be longer than the original road, increasing cost, while the original road must've been retained anyway for traffic to and from Harlingen, thus the barrier the elevated road currently is, would remain. This is a better solution for both Harlingen and traffic interests.


If I understand it correct, they will depress the current track of N31 and widen it. Creating only one interchange for the city traffic. Having it run under the railway and the canal.

Do you have any visualisations? I would be curious about how do they plan to connect both parts of the city. Why dont they make it run in a tunnel altogether through the city? I would imagine that running it in a tunnel, not constructing aquaduct and enlarging the original bridge could be also a solution, and not much more expensive I would guess. But yes, opening the biridge would pose a problem. Thus aquaduct is better variant.

It would be interesting to know, whether the land above the tunnel could be sold to developers (or othewise rented etc.) to cover for the additional costs of building a tunnel and perhaps making a small profit compared to the no tunnel variant of it lowering the overall costs of the project.


----------



## woutero

I think that some real estate development is planned to finance part of the investment of the city. At least it looks like there are some new buildings in the visualizations.

There are several visualizations here: http://www.viadrupsteen.nl/gbo-n31/

This is one of them:


----------



## Surel

Thank you for the link. Nice visualisations. I think there could have been at least short tunnel made to make the city bit compact.


----------



## ptscout

Limburg:


----------



## Suburbanist

Surel said:


> Thank you for the link. Nice visualisations. I think there could have been at least short tunnel made to make the city bit compact.


No need for that. Harlingen is already compact enough.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I made a little map of Fryslân (Friesland) province with all motorways and expressways to be completed by 2020. This map only includes 2x2 expressways with limited-access (grade-separation). In my opinion, Fryslân surely has the best road infrastructure of the Netherlands, considering the province has only 650 000 inhabitants.


----------



## Vignole

Do you think will N31 sections be renamed to A31?


----------



## keokiracer

^^ No, I wouldn't count on that.


----------



## aswnl

No, these sections won't meet motorway standards.


----------



## DarkLoki

I would think that the aquaduct is mainly for the benefit of boats and not for the cars


----------



## keokiracer

^^ it is also a benefit for cars: they don't have to wait for boats. Example: the bridge near the Volkeraksluizen opens approx. every 30-45 mins.


----------



## Road_UK

Yes, the Van Brienenoord Bridge at Rotterdam has issues with me:

"Quick, he's coming, open up"


----------



## keokiracer

^^ We have that with the Haringvlietbridge, which is 3 kms north of the Volkeraksluizen which I mentioned. We have to wait there 80% of the time....... Could be worse: my neighbour drives there about once a week, an the last time he _didn't_ have to wait was somewhere in october last year.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15 Ressen - Zevenaar*










Minister Schultz has formally chosen the bridge alternative for the extension of A15 from interchange Ressen to A12 near Zevenaar. There was a large amount of public input, with 1501 comments, out of which 443 were unique. The project will cost € 750 million, out of which € 282.5 million will be paid by tolls. The project is planned to be constructed between 2015 and 2018.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Below is an animation of the first leg of the Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere megaproject, the widening of A10 and A1 to 2x4 lanes in the direct vicinity of Amsterdam.


----------



## keokiracer

^^ And together with that the ground-level video





(GMaps link)

(Chris, you were fast. I posted the vid like 4 mins ago on the Dutch road forum )


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> The project will cost € 750 million, out of which € 282.5 million will be paid by tolls. The project is planned to be constructed between 2015 and 2018.[/QUOTE]
> 
> Shadow tolls or proper tolls? How will collection be?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Real tolls. I don't think they opt for pyshical toll collection with a toll plaza, so it's going to be some kind of electronic toll collection. 

There will be 5 ETC locations in the Netherlands by 2020;

* A13 Tunnel Rotterdam
* A15 Bridge Pannerdensch Canal
* A24 Blankenburg Tunnel Rotterdam
* N62 Westerschelde Tunnel
* N217 Kil Tunnel


----------



## keokiracer

Finally a new video 





Map


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Leidsche Rijn Tunnel opening permit issued*

*A2 Leidsche Rijn Tunnel, Utrecht*

The opening permit for the A2 Leidsche Rijn Tunnel has finally been issued by the Utrecht municipality. The 10-lane tunnel has been completed in 2010, but disagreement over safety procedures, protocols and equipment have delayed the opening for 2 years. The exact opening date is not known yet, but the tunnel will likely open in phases over the course of several weekends, possibly requiring A2 closures to switch traffic to the new lanes. 

This completes the 10-laning of 30 kilometers of A2 between Amsterdam and Utrecht. As a temporary solution, the old A2 alignment has been widened to an improvised 2x4 lanes to reduce the extreme traffic congestion that was occurring there. The old A2 will be demolished after the tunnel goes into operation.






The tunnel starts at 3:50


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> The opening permit for the A2 Leidsche Rijn Tunnel has finally been issued by the Utrecht municipality. The 10-lane tunnel has been completed in 2010, but disagreement over safety procedures, protocols and equipment have delayed the opening for 2 years.


2 years?!

We had something similar in Warsaw for about an year (_Wisłostrada_ tunnel). Didn't know it could be worse...


----------



## keokiracer

^^ we've also had a 50-year+ long discussion about building a road of which the sand was already laying there (A4 Delft - Schiedam). Thank god that highway's being built too..


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Jakub Warszauer said:


> 2 years?!


Yeah. And it's not the first time, we had major issues with the A73 tunnels near Roermond. They malfunctioned and closed very often (more than 1 000 times per year, though the majority where very short term closures). 

We can't have this tunnel close every time for no reason. 200 000 vehicles per day will use it, any unnecessary closure would potentially gridlock the entire province as nearby motorways also carry more than 150 000 vehicles per day. 

It's better safe than sorry this time.

The tunnel will have 4 tubes with a local-express setup. The express lanes have 3 lanes per direction and carry through traffic that has no destination or origin in the city of Utrecht (population: 300 000). There are 2 local lanes each way for traffic to and from various exits that serve the city. The tunnel has space reserved for 12 and possibly 14 lanes while maintaining a continuous shoulder in each of the tubes. 

The tunnel will likely opened phase by phase (likely first the local lanes in the southbound direction) to see if any problems may occur before all traffic is directed through the tunnel.


----------



## GROBIN

According to *ChrisZwolle*'s video, not only the A2 will be 2x5, but there'll be an enormous reserve lane on the left. What will it be used for ? Emergency & police vehicles ? _Snelbus_ as in the Belgian Flanders ? Or ? ...

& I assume the speed limit will be variable here, right ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The A2 is already 2x5. Most of the project in that video has already been completed, only the tunnel is not opened yet. 

There is a requirement that, if reasonably possible, a left shoulder is provided if there are 4 or more lanes per direction for longer distances. This left shoulder however, is superwide, there is space for 2x6 lanes without needing to pave anything while keeping a small left shoulder. However, for 2x6 lanes to work, the interchanges need improvement (specifically interchange Holendrecht where A2 meets A9). Considering the level of service will be acceptable for many years to come, I don't think we'll see 2x6 lanes anytime soon.

The speed limit is 100 km/h day and night, and will be enforced by section control later in 2012.


----------



## Bobek_Azbest

I'm interested in the (presumably) concrete walls between express and collector lanes that can be seen past the tunnel. Are they built in expectation of covering that section as well?


----------



## da_scotty

Bobek_Azbest said:


> I'm interested in the (presumably) concrete walls between express and collector lanes that can be seen past the tunnel. Are they built in expectation of covering that section as well?


Nope, these walls are sound barriers!


----------



## Bobek_Azbest

Well, judging by the mass of the walls they seem like a huge overkill for sound barriers to me. But it's only a visualization, and after all, everything is possible.


----------



## Road_UK

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yeah. And it's not the first time, we had major issues with the A73 tunnels near Roermond. They malfunctioned and closed very often (more than 1 000 times per year, though the majority where very short term closures).
> 
> We can't have this tunnel close every time for no reason. 200 000 vehicles per day will use it, any unnecessary closure would potentially gridlock the entire province as nearby motorways also carry more than 150 000 vehicles per day.
> 
> It's better safe than sorry this time.
> 
> The tunnel will have 4 tubes with a local-express setup. The express lanes have 3 lanes per direction and carry through traffic that has no destination or origin in the city of Utrecht (population: 300 000). There are 2 local lanes each way for traffic to and from various exits that serve the city. The tunnel has space reserved for 12 and possibly 14 lanes while maintaining a continuous shoulder in each of the tubes.
> 
> The tunnel will likely opened phase by phase (likely first the local lanes in the southbound direction) to see if any problems may occur before all traffic is directed through the tunnel.


For maintenance it would be no harm to impose nightime closures from time to time, provided that a proper diversion is generated. This is what they do in the UK: Night time tunnel closures, lane closures and diversions. Actually, in the UK the've gone a little carried away with these nightime roadworks.


----------



## mappero

According mail I receive - Traffic jams on N2 in between exits Veldhoven and Veldhoven Zuid will increase again cause of problems with bicycles bridge which require to close some roads in vicinity. 
Good news - new exit on A67 near Koningshof will be created  That's great info 
When exactly? Anyone knows?


----------



## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Milestones:
> 
> (....)
> * record of decision: A2 's-Hertogenbosch - Eindhoven widening (2x3)
> (...)


A video of that road, before the roadworks are visible. They have started with cutting trees near Vught.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Leidsche Rijn Tunnel*

The opening dates for each of the tubes:

* western local tube: January 30th
* western express tube: February 20th
* eastern express tube: April 16th
* eastern local tube: June 18th


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> The opening dates for each of the tubes:
> 
> * western local tube: January 30th
> * western express tube: February 20th
> * eastern express tube: April 16th
> * eastern local tube: June 18th


Why is it going to take 6 freaking months to open all lanes?


----------



## keokiracer

^^ Probably to study the results of opening a tube. If everything works correctly etc. Just be glad it's actually being opened...


----------



## Godius

Are dutch people willing to pay toll fares? Dutch people are already spending a lot of money on these special purpose taxes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think the Dutch are willing to pay tolls only if other taxes are reduced significantly. There's no sense in paying tolls while you already pay the road network 5 times.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A27 Utrecht*

The council of state has rejected all appeals against the widening of the A27 on the east side of Utrecht from 2x4 to 4+6 lanes. The northbound roadway will be widened from 4 to 6 lanes, by adding 1 through lane and 1 auxiliary lane. This means there will be 3 through lanes and 3 exit lanes towards the A28. The new lanes will open in the summer of 2012. The A27 carries 200.000 vehicles per day at this point.

It is a temporary solution until around 2020, when it's planned to widen this section of A27 to 14 lanes. 

cross section:









The right roadway will be widened to 6 lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Utrecht - Veenendaal*

A few aerial photos of the A12 works between Utrecht and Veenendaal.

1. temporary phase at Veenendaal. The end product will feature 2x3 lanes.









2. The Veenendaal west interchange is highly outdated.









3. Widening works









4. The Netherlands has many artificial canals for water drainage reasons.









5. A new ecoduct Rumelaar.









6. Widening through the Maarsbergen area.









7. Tight quarters at times. Some hope the railway will be widened to 4 tracks but that seems costly.









8. 









9. There will be a left shoulder until all works are completed.









10. New viaduct 









11. The end product; a top-notch high-capacity motorway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I never realized A2 now has 16 lanes between Utrecht and interchange Oudenrijn. It's very brief though, not as impressive as the other 16 lane motorway near Ridderkerk.

16 lanes:









14 lanes, only 10 lanes are for through traffic though.









The A2 reconstruction has been quite thoroughly. Every offramp in the Utrecht area has at least 2 lanes. All traffic signals near the interchanges have at least 2 lanes for every direction. Usually the lack of intersection capacity was one of the reasons offramp traffic congestion occurred. They also added auxiliary lanes in many locations, instead of two merges close to each other. 

I think they should name the A2 after former transportation minister Eurlings. The Eurlings Motorway. Sounds nice  After all he made most current projects possible.


----------



## Yetzirah231

ChrisZwolle, :banana: thanks for posting the pics. I wanted to see this for a long while.
I lived in Utrecht and Zeist, and going east towards Germany was always a bit claustrofobic on a 2 way lane... Now it starts to look like a highway 
Part of the traintracks eastwards from Utrecht are under construction to be 4 tracks, at least untill close to Maarn. This will solve part of the congestion on the rest of the Utrecht-Arnhem route that would be 160km/h in the near future is the idea, but safetyrules from Brussels might rule otherwise. At least this will make some trains faster, for now they have to slow down to often.
Germany offered to build a 200km/h line from Duisburg till the Dutch border years ago, but Holland didn't want to make clear commitments. Around Wesel the max speed also would be 160km/h. Let's see what the future brings.
At one hand the Euro will stay in a crisis, at the other hand Holland and Germany are still rich. Iran and Saudi Arabia are at the moment busy to strenghten their Oil contracts with China-India. So Oil prices might rise for the comming decade, this might help the motivation to use more trains.


----------



## the_Aristocrat

Here is a video I made while driving on the highway A50 driving from interchange Waterberg (where the A12 combines with the A50) to interchange Grijsoord (where the A50 splits from the A12) and then onto Nijmegen. 

Vide was made about 1 month ago.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Extreme traffic congestion due to some snow in northwestern Netherlands. Currently near 3000 kilometers of roadways with slow or stationary traffic.









Amsterdam is the hardest-hit region, with a complete collapse of traffic.


----------



## mappero

^^ So that why I traveled at night to Groningen to avoid this situation today  Now working from warm home 
A lot of snow is in whole Groningen and Drethe Province. So picturesque  And Rijkwastraat can use salt they've bought after last winter experience  

BTW, Chris do you know where can I find information about temperature in werkplaats/office and regulation/law saying when I don't have to commute to work in case of low temperature and snow fall?


----------



## keokiracer

A total of 412 kilometer already :|

Longest traffic jams:



> A9	Alkmaar - Amstelveen
> tussen Heerhugowaard en Amstelveen
> 31 km stilstaand verkeer (vertraging: meer dan 30 min)
> 
> A10	Coenplein (binnenring)
> tussen Kadoelen en knp. Coenplein
> 30 km langzaam rijdend tot stilstaand verkeer
> 
> A10	Coenplein (buitenring)
> tussen knp. Coenplein en Kadoelen
> 31 km langzaam rijdend tot stilstaand verkeer (vertraging: meer dan 30 min)
> 
> A28	Utrecht - Zwolle
> tussen knp. Rijnsweerd en Nijkerk
> 30 km langzaam rijdend tot stilstaand verkeer (vertraging: meer dan 30 min)
> 
> Zwolle - Utrecht
> tussen Strand Nulde en knp. Rijnsweerd
> 33 km langzaam rijdend tot stilstaand verkeer (vertraging: meer dan 30 min)


A10 = Amsterdam Ringroad

Longest delay: A6 Muiderberg --> Joure between Muiderberg and Emmeloord: ± 70 kms with 173 mins delay


----------



## Godius

ChrisZwolle said:


> Extreme traffic congestion due to some snow in northwestern Netherlands. Currently near 3000 kilometers of roadways with slow or stationary traffic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amsterdam is the hardest-hit region, with a complete collapse of traffic.


Holy Cow!!


----------



## keokiracer

^^


----------



## ChrisZwolle

5000+ kilometers


----------



## g.spinoza

In Italy Tom Tom says more than 110 minutes to do 800 *yards *in A1 (near Frosinone).


----------



## kosimodo

ChrisZwolle said:


> 5000+ kilometers


In deze weergave.. In this view 

But.. do 'we' have a new record??


----------



## kosimodo

For a better understanding i have zoomed out a bit... Looks like half of the country to me


----------



## keokiracer

kosimodo said:


> In deze weergave.. In this view
> 
> But.. do 'we' have a new record??


Nope, a third place so far with 830 km reported so far: in reality this is higher because in some places there is little data. Currently it's 770 km, it's getting less, but rush hour is nearby.

This was just posted on the site of the VID (kind of the traffic agency):

It's Google Translated, but it gives a good idea:


> Third worst striker ever
> 
> The snow front that Friday across the country draws creates huge inconvenience to road, rail and air. Around half past three was already more than 830 kilometers file. This brings these "tips" on the 3rd place in the list of worst strikers ever. Besides measuring the FID with its own inwinnetwerk at over 90 locations aanaanzienlijke delays. Traffic around Amsterdam is now almost terminal: traffic jams of 20 to 30 miles on the A4, A8, A9 and A10 are no exception. Inter alia, the A6 and A28 are reports of accidents involving multiple vehicles involved. The traffic is disrupted. NS (trains) from 11:00 a custom schedule promulgated. Attempts to many stations to reach. At Schiphol, flights delayed and canceled because of the snow clearing and holding in takeoff and landing time consuming. The snow front moves slowly to the south, so the nuisance in the Rotterdam and Brabant are not yet at peak. There where no snow falls, the problems are not over: the snow beneath. The congestion is the removal of snow plows and spreaders no simple task. The crowds also affects the website of the VID. To give everyone the best possible service, has switched to a site with limited functionality. As soon as the situation permits will be switched back to the regular site. This message is updated regularly. Last update: 15:40.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Dude, make some effort in providing a decent translation.


----------



## kosimodo

Worst striker ever....



> *1 Stephane Guivarc'h*
> 
> Some truly great strikers have graced the pitch at Newcastle. Milburn, Macdonald, Shearer and, erm, Guivarc'h! What is so remarkable about this story is that the Geordies thought they were buying a World Cup winner, which they were, but they probably should have taken more note of the fact that he failed to score a single goal in the winning campaign of 1998. He failed to produce any decent form after his £3.5m move to the Magpies and departed - after just four appearances and one goal - up to Rangers, citing that he wasn't part of Ruud Gullit's plans.


----------



## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Dude, make some effort in providing a decent translation.


Dude, I had to go to my neighbours so I had to do it quick, this was the quickest way. I'm currently making a better one


----------



## keokiracer

Here it is 
Hope everything is correct since I only used what I know 


> Third worst rush hour ever
> 
> The snowfront that is crossing the country today is creating huge problems on the road, on rail and in the air. Around half past three was already more than 830 kilometers of traffic jam in the country. Which puts this rush hour on the 3rd place in the list of worst rush hours ever. Besides that, the VID is measuring huge delays on provincial roads with its own data at over 90 locations. Traffic around Amsterdam is now almost grounded to a stand still: traffic jams of 20 to 30 kilometers on the A4, A8, A9 and A10 are no exception. From the A6 and A28 we're receiving that there have been serious accidents with multiple vhicles involved. The traffic is disrupted. NS (runs the trains in NL) is currently using a snow-schedule: which means that there are less trains driving. With these fewer trains the NS is trying to reach all train stations as often as possible. At Schiphol, flights are delayed and being cancelled because of the snow clearing. This is because it takes a lot of time to keep the landing strips snow free. The snow front is moving slowly to the south, so the problems in Rotterdam and North-Brabant are not yet at peak (EDIT: they currently are: it has stopped snowing here). But also where the snow has stopped, there are still a lot of problems. Because of the congestion it is very hard for snow ploughs to keep the roads clear. The crowds also affects the website of the VID. To give everyone the best possible service, we've switched to a site with limited functionality. As soon as the situation permits will be switched back to the regular site. This message is updated regularly. Last update: 15:40.


----------



## kosimodo

keokiracer said:


> Dude, I had to go to my neighbours so I had to do it quick...


Hmm, a quicky at the neighbours??:nuts:


----------



## keokiracer

^^ Stop turning my words into things you want to hear


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, funny story, I've read a cow belches 475 liters of methane per day. This is similar to 1760 kilos of CO2, but the greenhouse effect of methane is twenty times that of CO2, so the equivalent is 35200 kg of CO2 per day, or 12.8 million kilos of CO2 in a year. That's 5000 times of what my car emits in a year driving 20000 kilometers... :nuts::lol: So instead of driving a Prius, we should stop eating meat.


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ I don't get it. You converted 475 liters of methane in 1760 kilos of CO2 and then again into 35200 kilos of methane ?!?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A cow belches 475 liters of methane a day. To convert liters to kilos CO2, you need to multiply it by 3.7, so I've read. As methane has twenty times the greenhouse effect of CO2, you need to multiply that by 20 to get the CO2 equivalent. Then multiply it by 365 days and compare your car's CO2 emission (mine is 130 grams per km).


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ There still something wrong. You cannot convert litres of methane into kilos of CO2 and then again multiply by 20, because that's the methane-co2 conversion factor and you already converted it into co2.
Why not converting a litre of methane directly into kilos of methane and then apply the factor 20 with respect to CO2?

A litre of methane weighs .4 kilos at STP. So 475 litres = 190 kg. Then you multiply by 20 and get 3800 kg of CO2 equivalent. That's more like it, the figure you proposed was unearthly.

EDIT: I found where you were wrong. 3.7 is the conversion between the weight of carbon in gasoline and co2... methane has nothing to do with it.


----------



## Slagathor

The point is that our government is a fine collection of dimly lit cowards


----------



## Surel

Well the carbon emmissions and greenhouse gas panic is in my eyes following completaly different intentions then playing the god, trying to engineer the nature.

If you know that the fossile fules are going to be depleted sooner or later, however they are getting rapidly scarce, and the remaining stocks are not in your possession, you play agenda of alternative resources. You keep the real motive behind this change quiet and come with substitute theme - greenhouse effect.

No sensible person would recomend alternative fuels instead of the fossile fuesl, if the only intention was reducing the greenhouse gases emissions... all the alternative (carbon based) fuels are more greenhouse gas intensive then their petrol alternatives. Thus this cant be the real motive.

The real motive is that our petrol based (carbon) economy has to switch into other source based economy (e.g. hydrogen based). The transition may be really drastic if you dont have alternatives ready to support this transition. Changing the economy from petrol based into another is not just question of switching the engines in the cars... First of all, when oil is scarce, you need the energy to be able to build another sources of energy.


----------



## Junk

italystf said:


> But probably Italy is the only (European) country to have them on motorways.


A6a and A6b South of Paris in France.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A10 Amsterdam widening*

Out of nowhere, after years of dormancy, the A10-south project is suddenly revived with an agreement about the project by the ministry of Infrastructure and Environment and the city of Amsterdam. 

The A10 on the south side of Amsterdam will be put underground, and widened from 6 to 12 lanes. The widening will be combined with real estate development and expansion of rail services from 12 to 24 trains per hour. 

The A10 will feature 2+4+4+2 lanes, 2x4 through lanes and 2x2 lanes for local traffic, all underground. The project cost € 1.4 billion, out of which the national government pays € 979 million and the city of Amsterdam € 201 million. The urban region pays € 103 million and € 75 million comes from the North Holland province. That's € 280 million per kilometer.

Amsterdam is and will be the site of mega projects. Already in progress is the € 2 billion second Coen Tunnel + A5 skyway, and commencing this year is the € 4.5 billion Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere upgrade. The Badhoevedorp realignment of A9 is expected to start in 2013, while the A10-south project will commence in 2015. 

render:









project area:









current situation:


----------



## snowdog

Imho unneccesarily expensive.
Wouldn't it be cheaper to simply expand the motorway above ground ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's considerably cheaper than the north-south subway, especially compared to the amount of people who will use the facility. The A10-zuid + rail expansion project cost € 1.4 billion, but close to 400.000 people will use it everyday, compared to € 3+ billion for the subway and a usage of 150.000 people. 

I don't think the project would've been possible without bringing one of the modalities underground, you can't expand the railway station + rail facilities and double the number of lanes on A10 at the same time within the existing right-of-way. And they're not going to tear down those skyscrapers.


----------



## temlin

They rail track will stay at ground level? Because originaly the road and the rail should go underground:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yep, the old plan had more real estate development to support the expensive investment, which is unlikely now (vacancy rate is already quite high in the area). The original plan was estimated at € 2.1 billion (but was likely much more expensive, as underestimates were quite common a few years ago). 

Also note that the A10 setup is different now, the original plan called for 4x3 lanes, the current plan calls for 2+4+4+2 lanes.


----------



## darko06

You folks in the Netherlands have really interesting architecture.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Utrecht ringroad widening*

In funneling down options for the € 1.2 billion Utrecht ring road widening, some more details became available. The biggest news was that the N230 widening has been downscaled from 6 to 4 lanes, with a speed limit of 80 instead of 100 km/h. It will be grade-separated. Although it will conform to congestion norms, the 70.000 - 80.000 vehicles per day leave very little room for traffic growth. 

Also some more details became available about the A27 widening, which is technically very complex. The A27 is below grade, and there is a foil underneath the roadway that prevents groundwater from flooding the motorway. It is not possible to puncture or expand this soil, which eliminates the possibility of new bridges, which then leads to problems with railway bridges, the bridgehead will be replaced by a 5.5 m wide pylon with a two-lane carriageway around it. The A27 can be widened from 2x4 to 2x7 lanes that way, in a 2+5+5+2 setup.

Map of the proposed changes:









Construction will commence in 2016, first on N230 and A27, and between 2020 and 2023 along A12, where the parallel lanes will be widened to 3 lanes each way (12 lanes total).


----------



## Des

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yep, the old plan had more real estate development to support the expensive investment, which is unlikely now (vacancy rate is already quite high in the area). The original plan was estimated at € 2.1 billion (but was likely much more expensive, as underestimates were quite common a few years ago).
> 
> Also note that the A10 setup is different now, the original plan called for 4x3 lanes, the current plan calls for 2+4+4+2 lanes.


What I'm wondering is how the 2+4+4+2 setup will work. Both sides of the tunnel have big bottle neck in traffic flow. Traffic crossing lanes from local onramps to A10->A2 and A10->A4 cause traffic jams on a daily basis backing traffic up for kilometers. Just adding lanes will not make a huge difference in my opinion, only reconstruction of the KP Nieuwe Meer and KP Amstel could solve this.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Unfortunately the whole plan has a major design flaw, the parallel lanes will only have 1 through lane and 1 auxiliary lane between exits. I don't get why they are willing to spend € 1.4 billion on a plan like this. It's a freaking € 280 million per kilometer that will create a lot of problems. The Zuidas will become a huge railway yard which is suppose to be "international allure".


----------



## Des

To illustrate what I mean some traffic flows:

East-bound:

A10-West->Local exits
A10-West->A2
A10-West->A10-South
A4->A10 South
A4->A2
A4->Local exits
Local exits->A10 South
Local exits->A2

If there were no money or available space restrictions it would be nice to have the following solutions:

Fly-over for traffic from A10-West to lane for local exits VU and RAI so traffic from A4 can drive to A10 south without obstruction. 
Fly-over for traffic from onramp RAI to A10-South so all transit and local traffic can flow to A2 without obstruction. 

If this is not done I don't think the whole transit - local setup and capacity increase will make much difference because the bottle necks will still cause traffic jams.


----------



## Des

ChrisZwolle said:


> Unfortunately the whole plan has a major design flaw, the parallel lanes will only have 1 through lane and 1 auxiliary lane between exits. I don't get why they are willing to spend € 1.4 billion on a plan like this. It's a freaking € 280 million per kilometer that will create a lot of problems. The Zuidas will become a huge railway yard which is suppose to be "international allure".


That is a similar mistake to the Western part of the Eindhoven ring road that has only 2 transit lanes in each direction while 3 is necessary already.


----------



## mappero

^^
Even worse is that they removed 1 lane from N2 (within Eindhoven west ring part). So now almost every morning lots of cars staying in traffic towards south on 2 lanes instead of 3 !!
It's waste of public money!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A10 tunnel not economically profitable*

The Bureau for Economic Policy Analysis (CPB), an independent government agency, called the A10 tunnel unprofitable in a second opinion analysis. While the widening of A10 is economically profitable, doing it underground is not, mainly because the benefits were overstated, specifically the € 360 million value of the space freed up by the undergrond A10. The CPB puts the benefit at € 110 million, making the project economically unprofitable. It didn't go into specifics about the road configuration, which was critized yesterday. 

The usefulness of the A10 widening was not questioned, especially the local-express setup was seen as useful, because it would decongest two motorway interchanges compared to a regular widening to 2x6 lanes. 

The negative second opinion of the CPB does not mean the project is dead, but it may give way to second thoughts about the project. When the A10 will be put underground, it will be replaced by a massive rail yard, pretty much defeating its purpose of bringing A10 underground. The original plans called for an all-underground project, but were found far too expensive and financially risky as large amounts of real estate development are necessary to support that project, which is very unlikely today given the low demand and vacancy. The project area is surrounded with low-density sport facilities, which would be far cheaper to develop than on top of the infrastructure corridor, if demand really was to be high, which it is not.


----------



## Koesj

^^ Taking bikes on trains is NOT going to work during peak hours. We've got enough opportunities for people to transport their bike off-peak. Just use a decent one for going around your neighborhood and a banger for around work if you've got a trainride inbetween.

I used to bike 5kms to school one way even when I was 8 years old btw. Take your lunch at school and if the weather is really shitty you might get lucky and have another kid's mom collect you. That's just how it goes around the countryside with two working parents.


----------



## Suburbanist

Surel;88941721
15 km biking in the netherlands in a city should not take you more then 40 minutes. In most of the cities you dont bike more then 10 kms from the place where you live to your work said:


> I don't think that holds for people past their college education. Especially around the Randstad, it is very common to live in a city and work somewhere else. Then, if the workplace or residence is near a train station, commuting with transit might work. But if both are not in close proximity of a station, unless you want to spend 2 extra hours per day, driving is always quicker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bike is simply the best transportation choice in any dutch city, when you dont need to transport something else then just yourself and when you are not a one time visitor.
> 
> 
> 
> What is "best"? Cheaper? Probably, because bikes don't pay road taxes to help pay for the bike paths (though bikes should be tagged with plates and taxed like € 50/year). Faster? Not really beyond 3-4km.
Click to expand...


----------



## da_scotty

Suburbanist said:


> though bikes should be tagged with plates and taxed like € 50/year


How do you want to controll that, just look at the amound of left bikes, the amound of stolen bikes, secondhand bikes. I would be scared about the bureaucratic consequences.. It's simply impossible to do this, there are more bikes then people in the netherlands! I'm a student and I have 3 bikes alone, are you going to expect me to pay €150 to ride them, hell no!


----------



## Junk

I have a question which is unrelated to the bicycles.
Recently, travel times are being shown more and more on these so-called BermDRIPs: 









Will these eventually replace the normal DRIPs:









or will these stay?


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ I hope those overhead ones stay! That is because you can easily miss a side lane VMPS.

For instance, they have one near Breuklen on A2. Impossible to read it daytime if you are travelling on any but the two rightmost lanes.


----------



## snowdog

woutero said:


> _E
> 
> Here's an example of a random place in The Netherlands. It is in Sneek, a small town in the North:
> 1895:
> http://f.cl.ly/items/311V2F0r41112p0a1m25/397-Schaapmarktplein.jpg[IMG]
> 
> 1969:
> [IMG]http://www.sneekernieuwsblad.nl/files/2011/11/366-Schaapmarktplein-522x391.jpg[IMG]
> 
> Current ([URL="http://g.co/maps/w2z83"]Streetview[/URL]) (on a monday morning when the shops are closed...):
> [IMG]http://f.cl.ly/items/1m1w050A0S3N3Q1o303o/Schermafbeelding%202012-02-27%20om%2015.09.28.png[IMG]
> [/QUOTE]
> 
> I prefer the way it looked in '69 :), perhaps I belong in the US not in Europe :). Street looks boring and crap without cars.
> 
> I also hate all the street furniture, it looks ugly.
> 
> I think town centers like this one (Malmedy in Belgium):
> [url]http://maps.google.nl/?ll=50.42541,6.029627&spn=0.002936,0.008256&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=50.425393,6.029737&panoid=kL3jwqgwh0jYcSFhHSf_1w&cbp=12,319.83,,0,4.21[/url]
> Look far nicer and more lively and wealthy and inviting than that anti car crap in places like Sneek or Gouda.
> 
> Ah well, if I ever get the chance to get to the US I will, I am really someone who loves the idea of living in an American suburb and seeing nice pickups and SUV's everywhere and a pool and a nice big garden with every home.
> 
> Then again I'm a car enthousiast, I love sitting on a terrace drinking a beer looking at all the Mercs, BMW's, Audi's, Volvo's, etc :)._


----------



## Jeroen669

italystf said:


> There should be a room reserved to bicycles in every train.


There mostly are special compartments for people who carry a bike, but it just doesn't work during rush hours. They're only allowed outside the rush hours and with an additional (I thought) 6 euros ticket. 

Folding bikes don't have these restrictions, though.


----------



## Slagathor

italystf said:


> Sorry, but this seems very unlikely to me. Children and students leaving at 7 a.m. in the morning and returning home at 3 p.m. because they cycle 40km every day even with rain, snow, cold even if there PT avaliable? Maybe within 5km but 20 seems exagerate. And are parents happy to leave their 10 yo children to cycle alone from city to city?


I'm going to have to confess I was one of those kids. I grew up in Zeeland. The only high schools were in the two larger towns of the peninsula, so all the kids from the small villages would have to cycle to school. In a sparsely populated province like Zeeland, public transport is virtually non-existent.

I was lucky, my one-way trip totaled to just 7km. But some kids did have to cycle 15 or 20km one-way. Needless to say, they all bought scooters the *second* they turned 16 (in Holland you start high school at age 12). 


(click for a larger version)

On the map: the dots represent the biggest high schools and the lines represent the major cycling routes (although there are short cuts, of course). People do tend to choose their kid's high school by proximity, since the quality of education is roughly the same everywhere. 

The cycling routes typically look like this.


----------



## g.spinoza

snowdog said:


> I think town centers like this one (Malmedy in Belgium):
> http://maps.google.nl/?ll=50.42541,...=kL3jwqgwh0jYcSFhHSf_1w&cbp=12,319.83,,0,4.21
> Look far nicer and more lively and wealthy and inviting than that anti car crap in places like Sneek or Gouda.


It just look more chaotic and polluted and noisy, to me  :cheers:


----------



## mappero

snowdog said:


> I prefer the way it looked in '69 , perhaps I belong in the US not in Europe . Street looks boring and crap without cars.
> 
> I also hate all the street furniture, it looks ugly.
> 
> I think town centers like this one (Malmedy in Belgium):
> http://maps.google.nl/?ll=50.42541,...=kL3jwqgwh0jYcSFhHSf_1w&cbp=12,319.83,,0,4.21
> Look far nicer and more lively and wealthy and inviting than that anti car crap in places like Sneek or Gouda.
> 
> Ah well, if I ever get the chance to get to the US I will, I am really someone who loves the idea of living in an American suburb and seeing nice pickups and SUV's everywhere and a pool and a nice big garden with every home.
> 
> Then again I'm a car enthousiast, I love sitting on a terrace drinking a beer looking at all the Mercs, BMW's, Audi's, Volvo's, etc .


And getting belly every day bigger and bigger... :lol:

I am fan of removing cars from city centers. I do enjoy driving vehicles but the place for its should be in underground parking or far away from city center. Awesome it's happening here in Europe.
Car cannot be used as poverty factor as quite common in 2nd world's countries (like in eastern countries, Africa, etc).


----------



## mappero

Suburbanist said:


> What is "best"? Cheaper? Probably, because bikes don't pay road taxes to help pay for the bike paths (though bikes should be tagged with plates and taxed like € 50/year). Faster? Not really beyond 3-4km.


As probably some of you (expats in the Netherlands) realized that "the best" for Dutch people always mean goedkoopste so cheap indeed :lol:
Don't even try to discuss with Dutch. "Going Dutch" is also known. But, what we can say about the country, where everyone is saving money  :nuts: 
Bike = saving on fuel, on roadtax, on tires, on maintenance but not on paracetamol


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A74 Venlo*

The A74-A61 link near Venlo will open to traffic on Wednesday, April 4th, 2012. Both Dutch minister Schultz and German minister Ramsauer are scheduled to open the new motorway link between the Netherlands and Germany. Rijkswaterstaat cannot confirm, but Strassen.NRW says the opening will take place at 12.00 hours. After decades of planning, the link will finally open to traffic.

The Dutch part of the motorway was entirely completed before the winter. The German part is mostly finished, but the final layer of asphalt will still have to be poured, they have another month for this. Road markings on the German side may be temporary unless higher temperatures occur in March. 

Planned since the 1970's, official government planning for the link began in 1995, when a study was published considering alternatives. Alternatives both east and south of Venlo were considered, ultimately a southern link was chosen because of the lower impact on nature. The new A73 motorway from Venlo to Roermond opened in 2007, and the process accelerated in that year, with a record of decision being published in 2010. Construction began almost immediately and was finished within a single year on the Dutch side. The A73 was constructed with an A74 interchange in mind, so the works were relatively easy. 

The new motorway opens in time for the Floriade 2012 in Venlo, a large gardening and flower exhibition, which both the Dutch and Germans love. It is expected 2 million people will visit the exhibition.


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## mappero

^^ That's great info! 
Any reason, politic reason occurred in 70's that the motorway wasn't build that time?


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## ChrisZwolle

I don't think so. It wasn't a very high priority in the 1970's. The Germans mainly built A61 in the 1970's, but the Dutch A73 between Nijmegen and Venlo wasn't completed until 1996. In those days, the priority for the Dutch was east-west traffic (A67 - A40). 

It was probably thought in the 1970's that this link would've been constructed in the mid- to late 1980's, when the last gaps of German A61 were filled. However, the anti-car politics of the 1980's and 1990's shelved nearly all projects, especially in the periphery of the Netherlands. Amongst them was A73, but also A50, A59 and even A2 between 's-Hertogenbosch and Eindhoven. Projects didn't gain ground until the early 2000's, when it became quite clear these links were simply necessary. The 2005 - 2012 period saw quite some new motorway construction in this part of the Netherlands. A50 and A59 were completed, A73 was constructed and A2 around Eindhoven was completely rebuilt.


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## ChrisZwolle

A20 in Rotterdam, 1975.


----------



## woutero

Not much has changed in the last 37 years (except the amount of traffic).


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## Suburbanist

^^

- the light reflectors beneath the signs are gone
- anchored poles with a line of mercury lights were substituted


----------



## snowdog

mappero said:


> And getting belly every day bigger and bigger... :lol:
> 
> I am fan of removing cars from city centers. I do enjoy driving vehicles but the place for its should be in underground parking or far away from city center. Awesome it's happening here in Europe.
> Car cannot be used as poverty factor as quite common in 2nd world's countries (like in eastern countries, Africa, etc).


I'd love my belly to get bigger, gaining weight is hard . Falling off is easy, simply sleep a bit longer, do stuff that take your mind of food ( when working you forget you're hungry) and be active for about 30 mins per day. In my case if I don't watch how much I eat I lose 1 kg per week.

I disagree, I love driving around Rotterdam on a saturday or friday night with a couple of mates (or Warsaw if the traffic isn't a complete gridlock ). Or being able to stop in front of the shop you need to be. 

Towns without cars are simply boring, too silent, no noise on the streets, many many Dutch towns suffer from this. Abroad the problem is far less and streets are interesting. It's why I like the standweg in Scheveningen or the Meent or the Coolsingel or the Nieuwe Binnenweg in Rotterdam but absolutely hate the tripe like in Amsterdam. 


g.spinoza said:


> It just look more chaotic and polluted and noisy, to me  :cheers:


Chaotic is exactly how town centers should be imho. Anything else is boring/dead.
and pollution? Meh people should go see places like Singapore or Beijing or so before whining about our clean air. 



ChrisZwolle said:


> A20 in Rotterdam, 1975.
> http://i.imgur.com/1ExD8.jpg[IMG]
> 
> [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/y5b4P.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
> Wow, they only made it worse in all that time instead of improving it ( by adding a ****ed up speed limit):
> [IMG]https://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pkf0p1a2FtaCa2lfe09nGA6ECSLmF15WywqncaL_CVY3XdvIloHHAFUXIaKyc6be3WjVrDPY4mlVYw64ScH9wSA/a20.jpg?psid=1


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## Pz0

Hey guys.I really like Dutch roads and highways but for my it's realy intresting that kind of road were going on sea and in another side lake.I know Netherlands build that A7 road on the sea or something like that? off topic: I am really interesting about "polders" .Still dutch building that polders? Can you guys tell me more about "Land Reclamation" .
Thanks


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ The environwackos would have never allowed this country to exist if they existed in XVII Century. Mind you, they are so annoying they transformer 15% of a polder created in the 1950s into a "bird reservation", as if migratory birds stopped there before!!!! (it was all underwater).

the roads were built over ***** constructed to isolate bodies of water and allow them to be either drained (Thus converted into polders) or used as resevoirs for water level management. That is the case of N302, A7 and N59 for instance. However, there are also many other secondary roads built over *****. Most roads in the lowlands areas are indeed *****.


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## woutero

@Pz0 You are talking about the Zuiderzee Works, part of which is the Afsluitdijk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuiderzee_Works

Polders are defined as land where water has to be actively managed. Rain water is pumped off the land because it does not naturally run off into rivers. This is because the land is lower than surrounding water. In this sense most of The Netherlands is polder and would flood if it would not be kept dry with water pumps (gemalen).

Land reclamation is rare these days. Land for agriculture is not needed. Only for new residential and industrial development there are still land reclamations. 2 examples:
- IJburg in Amsterdam: These Islands.
- 2e Maasvlakte in Rotterdam: new port area.

The technique used for these 2 examples is different: they are not polders. In these 2 cases sand is being used to create new land. Traditional polders are different: a **** is constructed around a body of water, and the water is pumped out.

@Suburbanist. You are talking about the Noordvaardersplassen. Do you have another suggestion for the use of this land? There is no demand for more land for urban development in this location.


----------



## Pz0

Thank you I have read everything of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuiderzee_Works .And for me It's really nice how Nederlands made a new lands.Can you tell how much total land amounts square meters added? And why they stoped ,cuz Markerwaard Polder they canceled ;/


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## woutero

Hard to tell how much land was added in total, because from the 16th century on many smaller and bigger lakes were turned into land.

The land created due to the Afsluitdijk is:
- Wieringermeerpolder (1930): 309 km2
- Noordoostpolder (1942): 460 km2
- Oostelijk Flevoland (1957): 540 km2
- Zuidelijk Flevoland (1968): 430 km2
So in total about 1.739 km2 was added.

The project was stopped because of a number of factors:
- Changes in agricultural practice and food production: nowadays you need less land than in 1930 to produce more food, and it is easy to import food. This means agricultural land is not needed, and adding extra land for agriculture would simply not be profitable.

- A change in views about how to treat the environment and how to live with water (in stead of fighting water). The ecological impact.

- The (perceived) value of water for recreation and open space. Historic fishing towns, now of importance for tourism, would get cut off from the open water.

In other words: there is no need for more land, it would likely not be a financial success, and it would impact the ecosystem and recreational opportunities.


----------



## Suburbanist

woutero said:


> @Suburbanist. You are talking about the Noordvaardersplassen. Do you have another suggestion for the use of this land? There is no demand for more land for urban development in this location.


They could have used the area to make low-density residential areas with a fast connection to Amsterdam, e.g., making ALmere and Lelystad a single urban area with 1/4 of their actual density, giving and affordable option for people working in Amsterdam but wanting to live with more open space.

As for cutting off former harbors, I don't think that is a problem. Urk was once an island, today is grew exponentially because it has good road access and much more land to expand.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A12 sunbound.


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ nice view with the sunset exactly on the highway alignment.


----------



## keokiracer

_Laaate response_


g.spinoza said:


> Can I ask you gentlemen what do you make from this video?
> 
> http://video.repubblica.it/mondo/olanda-cosi-sono-nate-le-ciclabili/89068?video=&ref=HREC2-1
> 
> It's hosted on Italian newspaper "La Repubblica" but it's in English. It's about bicycle vs. car in the Netherlands.


For those of you that want to see the original video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o

For more cycling videos, it's really the channel you should check:
http://www.youtube.com/user/markenlei


----------



## bogdymol

ChrisZwolle said:


> A12 sunbound.
> http://i.imgur.com/AUS5x.jpg[/ IMG][/QUOTE]
> 
> Although the view is nice I hate driving with the sun in front of my eyes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1/A6/A9 Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere*

Transportation minister Schultz formally iniated construction of the A1/A6/A9 widening megaproject today. The € 4 billion project will consist of a massive road widening of the A1, A6, A9 and A10 motorways, on the Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere corridor. Construction will first commence on the eastern side of A10 and the first leg of the A1 to the Diemen motorway interchange. Construction will commence in 2014 along the A1 farther east to the Muiderberg motorway interchange and the first phase of the A6 motorway towards Almere.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Leiden*

Minister Schultz has announced today the first opening phase of the new depressed A4 near the city of Leiden. The new aquaduct will open to traffic next Saturday, March 3, initially only for southbound traffic towards Den Haag. Traffic towards Amsterdam will use it for 2 years, starting in April 2012. After all traffic is directed through the new 27.50 m wide aquaduct, the old A4 will be demolished and a second identical 27.50 m wide aquaduct will constructed there. Full 2x 27.50 m capacity will be available in 2014. The aquaduct is currently planned to be operated in a 2x3 configuration, but has space for 2x6 lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4/N201 Hoofddorp*

A very cool animation of a currently under construction project along A4 near Hoofddorp, just south of Amsterdam. The current 2x5 motorway will be expanded with local lanes to reach two exits, for a total of 14 lanes. The widest cross-section will feature 18 lanes of traffic.


----------



## SkyView

Indeed very cool vid !


----------



## Juhis

Awesome, that's almost motorway p0rn for those of us who are into that sort of thing. :cheers:


----------



## Suburbanist

There is a problem with that video. Cars are too fast. Unless I made calculations wrong, if you divide the real distance by the time it takes for cars to move between two gantries on the video, their average speed would be like 160km/h - the fastest ones :O


----------



## keokiracer

^^ On the other hand it's extremely realistic: everybody is driving left.... :|


----------



## snowdog

Suburbanist said:


> There is a problem with that video. Cars are too fast. Unless I made calculations wrong, if you divide the real distance by the time it takes for cars to move between two gantries on the video, their average speed would be like 160km/h - the fastest ones :O


Perhaps secretly they want to raise the speed limit to 160 :banana: ?


keokiracer said:


> ^^ On the other hand it's extremely realistic: everybody is driving left.... :|


, indeed.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Oude Rijn Aquaduct near the city of Leiden opened to traffic today.

Here are a few photos from mavas. It's a Google Picasa hosted photo set, so if you can't see any photos below this text, refresh (CTRL+F5).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A24 Blankenburg Tunnel, Rotterdam*

Some good news about the proposed Blankenburg Tunnel west of Rotterdam. The project has seen a significant cost estimate reduction, from € 1.2 billion to € 1 billion. The tunnel, which will carry the new A24 motorway, will connect the A20 and A15 motorways west of Rotterdam. It will be the westernmost fixed link in this area. 

The € 200 million saving means the amount of toll that has to be collected will be reduced from € 300 to only € 100 million, i.e. tolls will be about 70% lower than previously estimated. The minister may be hinting to a toll-free connection here. 

The tunnel, which is proposed as a regular twin-tube immersed tunnel with 2x3 lanes, is planned to open around 2020. It is one of two new toll facilities proposed in the Rotterdam metropolitan area.

location:


----------



## g.spinoza

^^Traffic estimates?


----------



## aswnl

That depends on whether it will be tolled or not...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The forecasted average daily traffic is 50.000 - 65.000 vehicles per day, depending on the economic scenario. This included the previous estimate of € 300 million tolls. Traffic volumes will be higher now the tolls will likely be lower, or maybe entirely toll free.


----------



## Suburbanist

*Car park and street parking fees rise sharply*

Once again, anti-car measures backfires...



> *City and shopping centre parking fees have gone up so much they are driving shoppers away*, according to the retail sector's annual survey of parking charges.
> 
> In some cases, hourly charges have gone up 50% since 2009, Detailhandel Nederland says. The organisation visited 75 garages in 24 cities and compared on-street parking charges.
> 
> The biggest car park rise - 50% - was booked by the Torenlaan car park in Assen. In Nijmegen, the cost of parking on the street has risen from €1.70 an hour at the end of 2010 to €3.35, the organisation said.


Source


----------



## Surel

Suburbanist said:


> Once again, anti-car measures backfires...
> 
> 
> 
> Source


I wouldnt call these anti car measures . I dont think that the owner of the parking lot increases the price by 100 % in order to get rid of the cars. He certainly wants to have the parking full of cars and just collect double. (note it is 100 %, not 50 % as the article tries to say)

If the owner of the parking places and shops are different then there are is just conflict of interests. If the price of parking increase by 100 % and the number of parked cars decrease by 25 % the owner of the parking place still makes 50 % more revenue. The owner of the shopping mall, however, would most probably make around 25 % less revenue...

The shopping mall would be better off if he subsidized the owner of the parking place, because such costs would be lower then the loss on revenue.

Thus it is logical that shopping malls should build underground parkplaces etc.


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ In the Netherlands, must parking prices for central locations are decided by city authorities. Otherwise I'd agree with your argument.


----------



## Surel

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ In the Netherlands, must parking prices for central locations are decided by city authorities. Otherwise I'd agree with your argument.


Well, then it means only, that there are many parking places in the ownership of the cities, or the city has direct income from parking owners, or the lobby of parking places owners is stronger then the lobby of retailers.

I dont know what are the detailed legal requirements, but as I already said, the retailers could subsidize the parking costs either to their clients or to the parking places owners to prevent their revenues from decreasing.


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## aswnl

The costs of most parkingplaces are low, because they do exist for decades. The municipalities just want to rip off the drivers/shoppers in their everlasting hunger for more and more money. So they can provide some (mostly quite useless) political social subsidizing-projects with cash...


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## ChrisZwolle

Most larger cities make huge profits on parking fees. It's not for covering the cost, it's just a cash cow. It's the typical Dutch disease to complain about all car traffic into city centers but at the same time prohibit the construction of alternatives like motorway malls. My guess is they like the cash better than they don't like the cars.


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## ChrisZwolle

New flyover in Utrecht City, here

Dutch cities have very little grade-separation outside the motorways that encircle them, compared to other European cities. 



Apostle said:


> Fly over 24 Oktoberplein:


----------



## Wuppeltje

@ChrisZwolle

Nonsense argument. The costs for the cities to build and maintain roads (nearly 3 billion euro each year) are higher than the benefits in additional incomes from parking (500 million euro) for the cities itself.


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## ChrisZwolle

I don't see your point. I was talking about the cost of parking and the fact the revenue from parking fees is much bigger than the cost in some larger cities, not the entire road budget of the Netherlands. That's comparing apples and oranges.


----------



## keokiracer

*A4 Halsteren - Dinteloord*

Click here for all my pics including locations

Lagemetenweg looking north:









Lagemetenweg looking south with zoom









Works on the pipe line near a farm next to the A4. The pipe line is being diverted: this pipe line used to cross the A4 diagonally. It looks like the pipe line will be extended west going underneath the N259. Those works will probably be done when the A4 is opened for traffic (less nuisance for (through) traffic)









exit Halsteren: The location where another lane will be built for traffic towards Tholen.









It looks like they're building a roundabout (which was planned) but with a free lane from Tholen --> Rotterdam that wont have to use the roundabout. Which is weird, because there weren't plans for that :nuts:









From exit Halsteren: A4 looking northbound









From de Dassenberg looking south. The same motorcrosser as last time was racing here again 









From the slope for the cyclist-viaduct over the A4 near Klutsdorp: looking north









Looking southbound now. The route of the cyclist bridge can be seen here:









Slope for the cyclist-bridge. So you get an idea of the height: the poles you see are about 1,5 meters high. That's why I estimate the slope at just over 4 meters.









From the N259: future lanes towards Bergen Op Zoom (southbound)









Same location: parallel road (left) and slope cyclist-bridge (middle):









The works are also starting on the other side of the N259, where they are officially not allowed to build yet. The Council of State still has to decide if the building is allowed to proceed: the council of state is already 6 months too late with this decision and recently news came out that it will take another 6 weeks hno:









Nuijten farm: there were some piles of sand laying here, I thought they had already shown the path the A4 will take, but that turned out not to be the case.









This house at the Drielindekensweg was demolished. I don't know when this happened.
Here is the old situation on Streetview









At the drielindekensdijk trees were cleared, this location is close to Steenbergen, where North-Brabant's first aqueduct will be constructed. I didn't go to the aqueduct though.













These 2 pics are not mine, but from Jackbauer1350 (Dutch road forum) who came by to check the progress with me. But he went further north: 2 pics from the exit Dinteloord (current end of A29)









^^ The N259 (which will loose it's number when the A4 is built) will goo over the A4 here:








^^ Looking on the A4 southbound. Works are going on here untill the road crosses the N259 just north of Steenbergen (approx 3,5 kilometers)


----------



## Coccodrillo

Will this motorway called A4, instead of A29? Where will the number change?


----------



## keokiracer

^^ I _think_ the A29 will disappear enteeirely and will get the number A4. The A15 near Rotterdam will get the number A4 alongside the A15, in that way, the A4 will be numbered consistently from Amsterdam to Antwerp (B) (from 2015 when the A4 Midden-Delfland is opened). But I'm not sure what will happen with the number. I don't think anyone is sure.... :|

EDIT: This is what I mean:


----------



## Wuppeltje

ChrisZwolle said:


> Most larger cities make huge profits on parking fees. It's not for covering the cost, it's just a cash cow. It's the typical Dutch disease to complain about all car traffic into city centers but at the same time prohibit the construction of alternatives like motorway malls. My guess is they like the cash better than they don't like the cars.


Also the 'huge' profits are nonsense. In case of Amsterdam. Yes, if you are looking at parking places only. Looking at the 2nd city Rotterdam. Income minus costs = 5,3 milion profit. That is more normal for a city in the Netherlands, and low considering other car costs for the city of Rotterdam. Traffic management in Rotterdam costs 13,6 milion euro in 2011 for example, with no substational income for it. 

Building motorway malls isn't our solution. Especially because our economy is shifting more and more to the cities.


----------



## Surel

aswnl said:


> The costs of most parkingplaces are low, because they do exist for decades. The municipalities just want to rip off the drivers/shoppers in their everlasting hunger for more and more money. So they can provide some (mostly quite useless) political social subsidizing-projects with cash...


By parking costs I did not mean the costs of parking places construction. I meant the costs that person parking a car has to pay to be allowed to park there. To put it better, the price of a parking ticket.

If the whole argument of retailers is that parking is too costly and they are losing clients = money. They should subsidize the price of parking to their clients = the costs of parking for the clients = the parking owners revenues.


----------



## Junk

keokiracer said:


> (from 2015 when the A4 Midden-Delfland is opened)


Do you know the date for the start of the construction of this road? Has it even started yet?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Preparatory works have commenced in 2011, but full-scale construction is anticipated to begin in the summer of 2012.


----------



## keokiracer

^^ It has started. Trees have been cut (near interchange Ketheplein). Exit Schiedam-Noord has been closed due to works etc.

Click here for a press release from Rijkswaterstaat in Dutch and on the next page of that thread there are some pics.


----------



## keokiracer

keokiracer said:


> *A4 Halsteren - Dinteloord*
> (...)
> The works are also starting on the other side of the N259, where they are officially not allowed to build yet. The Council of State still has to decide if the building is allowed to proceed: the council of state is already 6 months too late with this decision and recently news came out that it will take another 6 weeks hno:
> (...)


Sorry for quoting myself, but the Council of State will decide next Wednesday. (it was on their site). I have no idea why BN De Stem (local news paper) said that it would take up to 6 weeks. :nuts:

_*Fingers crossed!*_


----------



## snowdog

Wuppeltje said:


> @ChrisZwolle
> 
> Nonsense argument. The costs for the cities to build and maintain roads (nearly 3 billion euro each year) are higher than the benefits in additional incomes from parking (500 million euro) for the cities itself.


Nonsense argument, the cost of building and maintaining roads is FAR LESS than they earn on road tax, fuel duty, VAT on fuel, BPM, etcetc...

Parking is only an additional source of income.

Plus, who would live in a city with no access by car :lol:, yeah perhaps some Amsterdammers, Green people ( Groenlinks and Animal party voters) and students, but that's about it.


----------



## Surel

snowdog said:


> Nonsense argument, the cost of building and maintaining roads is FAR LESS than they earn on road tax, fuel duty, VAT on fuel, BPM, etcetc...
> 
> Parking is only an additional source of income.
> 
> Plus, who would live in a city with no access by car :lol:, yeah perhaps some Amsterdammers, Green people ( Groenlinks and Animal party voters) and students, but that's about it.


What is the distribution of the tax incomes you mentioned between the municipalities and the government? :O.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kerensheide motorway interchange flyover progress. This image is looking north along A2. To the left is Belgium, to the right is the city of Geleen and towards Germany.


----------



## Slagathor

keokiracer said:


> *A4 Halsteren - Dinteloord*


Great pictures, thanks!

I have relatives and friends in Zeeland but I live in The Hague so this road has been a long time coming for me  

It is, however, a bit of a shame to know that this 2x2 motorway will take all of 1 week to completely fill up with traffic to the point of nuisance. Especially considering most of it will be trucks between the seaports of Rotterdam and Antwerp. I really hate driving on a 2x2 motorway where the right lane is completely filled with trucks and everyone else is forced to drive 80 (or slower) in a huge jam on the left lane.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The expected traffic volume on the new A4 is about 65.000 vehicles per day, which is indeed no picnic. I don't think they have a space reservation for 2x3 lanes. 

The A4 will mainly relieve the A58 between Roosendaal and Bergen op Zoom. This section carries 85.000 vehicles per day and is among the busier Dutch 2x2 motorways, especially considering it's not near a major city or in an urban area, but rather a short-distance intercity motorway. 

On the other hand I think the A29 may become problematic, especially the section across the Haringvliet Bridge. It currently carries a modest (by Dutch standards) 50.000 vehicles per day. However, it has multiple issues. First of all, it's a bascule bridge and opens rather frequently. It also malfunctions from time to time and the motorway is substandard, there are no shoulders. Not the perfect recipe to handle large amount of (truck) traffic, especially if traffic volumes exceed 75.000 vehicles per day here. I think a higher bridge is the only viable solution here, but it will come at a price.


----------



## Slagathor

I think the urgency will soon be such that there's no way around a new bridge in that area. When this motorway opens, it will explode.


----------



## keokiracer

*@Slaghator* Thanks! (about the pics )


ChrisZwolle said:


> The expected traffic volume on the new A4 is about 65.000 vehicles per day, which is indeed no picnic. I don't think they have a space reservation for 2x3 lanes.


 Sadly not, no 



ChrisZwolle said:


> The A4 will mainly relieve the A58 between Roosendaal and Bergen op Zoom. This section carries 85.000 vehicles per day and is among the busier Dutch 2x2 motorways, especially considering it's not near a major city or in an urban area, but rather a short-distance intercity motorway.


 Sadly the forecasted numbers of traffic in 2020 aare about as high as they are now between Bergen Op Zoom and Roosendaal:
number of cars when A4 is completed in 2020:








Number of trucks when A4 is completed in 2020









Click here for current traffic volumes, next pic in line is the trucks.



ChrisZwolle said:


> On the other hand I think the A29 may become problematic, especially the section across the Haringvliet Bridge. It currently carries a modest (by Dutch standards) 50.000 vehicles per day. However, it has multiple issues. First of all, it's a bascule bridge and opens rather frequently. It also malfunctions from time to time and the motorway is substandard, there are no shoulders. Not the perfect recipe to handle large amount of (truck) traffic, especially if traffic volumes exceed 75.000 vehicles per day here. I think a higher bridge is the only viable solution here, but it will come at a price.


 Indeed. And you should not forget the A4/A58 passing Bergen Op Zoom, as you can see in the pics above, 63.000 cars and 29.000 trucks will cause a lot of traffic jams on that narrow stretch. And don't forget the fact that from Rotterdam to Antwerpen you will have to merge to 1 lane! Streetview. No plans for this yet, sadly...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Transportation and environment minister Schultz has formally approved the new spatial planning guidelines. This is the most official document concerning spatial policy, including road policy.

This is the ambition for 2040:

blue = at least 2x3
yellow = at least 2x4
red = widening 2x2 (N-roads) or new connections


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ Quite disappointed: no N65 upgrade to A65


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## ChrisZwolle

This document does not exclude such a project, since it's neither a new connection, nor a widening to 2x2/2x3/2x4.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice shot by Dutch austronaut André Kuipers from the Schiphol Airport area. The new A5 can be seen under construction on the left. The new A4 interchanges are also visible in the center. North is left (i.e. this photo is facing east).

Schiphol Airport 12.3.2012. by André Kuipers, on Flickr


----------



## keokiracer

*N279 Den Bosch - Veghel*

Route on GMaps

The N279 between Den Bosch and Veghel will be rebuilt as a 2x2 grade seperate road (except for the junctions with the highways A2 and A50: there was one scenario with interchanges here, but they were too expensive). Here's a simulation of the road:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Dinteloord - Bergen op Zoom*

The Council of State has rejected all appeals against the record of decision to construct a new motorway around the town of Steenbergen. This means construction can go ahead. It is anticipated that construction will commence as fast as possible to open the new motorway in late 2013. Some construction had already commenced. The new A4 motorway will shorten the distance between Rotterdam and Antwerpen and relieve local roads and the A16/A58 of through traffic.

location:


----------



## g.spinoza

I lost count. How many pieces of motorway are U/C (or in advanced stage of planning) in the NL?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are a few new motorway alignments either under construction, or planned. These are;

* A2 Maastricht (2016) (U/C)
* A4 Delft - Schiedam (2015) (U/C)
* A4 Dinteloord - Halsteren (2013) (U/C)
* A5 Raasdorp - Amsterdam (2012) (U/C)
* A13/A16 Rotterdam bypass (2020) (planned)
* A15 Ressen - Zevenaar (2020) (planned)
* A24 Rozenburg - Maassluis (2020) (planned)
* A74 Venlo - German border (2012) (finished, opens 04-04-2012)

Furthermore, some widening projects are so large they can be considered to be completely new motorways, mainly due to realignments;

* A1 Diemen - Muiderberg (2016) (planned, realignment)
* A4 Leiden (2014) (U/C, partially finished)
* A9 Diemen - Holendrecht (2019) (planned, partial realignment)
* A9 Badhoevedorp (2015) (planned, realignment)

Furthermore there are some 20 or 30 major widening projects going on or planned before 2020, including several N-roads like N31, N35, N61, N62, N279, N340, N356, N381, etc.) 

The Netherlands is finally moving ahead in recent years after decades of standstill (comparable to the late 1970's - early 2000's period in Italy).


----------



## g.spinoza

^^I see. May I ask how are you dealing with Nimbies?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

nimbies continue to appeal against projects and record of decisions. However, recent environmental impact statements and subsequent record of decisions have been very solid, it's been a long time since a record of decision was annulled in the Netherlands, the last maybe 5 years ago. 

There are currently a number of factors that speed up highway construction.

First, there was a lot of money reserved in the 2000 - 2007 timespan that could not be spent because of problems with procedures. All that money is currently spent, hence the huge construction boom since 2007. 

Second, they greatly improved the decision-making process. In most cases, the procedures were not the worst problem, but the political decision-making. The average decision making progress in the Netherlands until recently was 11 - 12 years (3 or more government cabinet periods), and some lasted significantly longer or were dormant for a long time. The decision-making progress has also improved because the rampant congestion went completely out of control, and politicians finally recognized the extreme traffic congestion had significant impact on economic growth and measures to curb automobile usage had only countereffects. Policy has changed from obstructing to facilitating road traffic and see it as a given fact, instead of something that needs to be curbed, at least on a national level. Municipalities and some provinces are often still in the older mindset.

Previously politicians were fairly sceptic about road improvement projects, because most of them carried out in the 1990's were very small in character and had only a very limited effect. Now they've recognized the Netherlands needs a corridor and network-wide approach instead of the older "3km at the time" approach which indeed had little effect. Newer road projects are much more solid and significantly reduced traffic congestion, often 20 - 30% annually in recent years, and up to 98% on individual motorway sections. They now also acknowledged these results will last much longer than previously thought because post-2000's traffic growth is significantly slower than during the 1980's and 1990's. This helped erasing the mindset that a widening was only effective for 1 or 2 years.


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> Previously politicians were fairly sceptic about road improvement projects, because most of them carried out in the 1990's were very small in character and had only a very limited effect. Now they've recognized the Netherlands needs a corridor and network-wide approach instead of the older "3km at the time" approach which indeed had little effect. Newer road projects are much more solid and significantly reduced traffic congestion, often 20 - 30% annually in recent years, and up to 98% on individual motorway sections. They now also acknowledged these results will last much longer than previously thought because post-2000's traffic growth is significantly slower than during the 1980's and 1990's. This helped erasing the mindset that a widening was only effective for 1 or 2 years.


I hope you mean the VVD and PVV by ''they''.
As soon as GL, D66, SP or the PvdA get in the government, forget about new infrastructure :bash:. They will be busy with nothing more than taxing the rich more and subsidies for the poor and more bureaucracy and rules.


----------



## Wuppeltje

^^ Funny though that thanks to the CDA/PvdA/CU government they actually started to take action.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It actually started with LPF minister Roelf de Boer and his "spoedwet" (urgent law). It was then continued by minister Eurlings and the Balkenende cabinets and now the Rutte cabinet.


----------



## Wuppeltje

^^ True, but in the 6 years after Roelf de Boer made his law, no one did something with it. That is also why you pointed the 2000-2007 period, money, but no action. In total 3 cabinets of the rightwing parties CDA and VVD involved. When Balkenende (CDA) turned from right to left with the PvdA and CU, it was minister Eurlings who made the law from Roelf de Boer working. 

This proofs that the statement of snowdog is false: _"As soon as GL, D66, SP or the PvdA get in the government, forget about new infrastructure"_.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I believe some 17 - 18 months. However, I have to add that constructing flyovers like this on urban streets is quite unusual in the Netherlands. There are only a few of such flyovers constructed in the last 5 or 10 years.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 widening reduces local traffic*

The widening of the A2 motorway from 2x3 to 2x5 lanes has reduced traffic on local roads in the Stichtse Vecht municipality. Traffic counts revealed traffic has dropped on roads running parallel to the A2 motorway after the widening was completed.

The most affected was the N402 / Straatweg, running from Breukelen to Maarssen. Overall traffic was down 15% here, rush hour traffic by as much 36%. 

location:


----------



## mappero

Agnette said:


> Motorway (Autosnelweg) A28 [Assen - Zwolle]:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes Chris, You are right, recorded in March 2011. Is it a Plus lane in Zwolle before yellow lines/lane? .. and why traffic was separated on IJsselbrug?


From 05:11 till A28 join the A37 speed limit is 100 km/h. I know the whole A28 and A50 by hard since 2009 I started commuting in between Eindhoven and Groningen 
Plus line in Zwolle starts from 09:29 on video.


----------



## Koesj

^^ Dude that is an insane commute, I already felt like Groningen - Hengelo (OV) was way too long and had only to do that once a week.


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## mappero

^^ Yeah! That's why I was doing 50-70kkm per year...
Thanks was only once per week. On Monday and Friday back  Not anymore


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## ChrisZwolle

A 250 kilometer cross-country commute


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## mappero

Oh common! For Dutch could be unbelievable to commute such a distance  But it's small country so ... it's piece of cake. Actually was it...
Now just 83 km one way everyday  And I am scanned 10 times per week by this Dutch purple flashing cameras on the border. Do you guys know what's that? Registration plate scanner?


----------



## Slagathor

Whatever it was, it was probably evil 

Commutes are such a drain on life. Mine was 150km one-way (I had to do that every day). In the end, I moved. Now it's 2km.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N69 Valkenswaard - Eindhoven*

The province of Noord-Brabant has presented the "complete solution" for the N69 troubles south of Eindhoven. The current N69 is a narrow two-lane road which traverses two city centers (Valkenswaard & Aalst). It's congested and heavily trafficked by trucks due to industrial areas just across the border in Belgium.

The new road will cost € 140 million and is 8 kilometers long. It will feature 2x1 lanes with a median and branches off N69 south of Valkenswaard and runs north to a new interchange "Veldhoven-West" at A67. The layout of the intersections is unknown, but roundabouts would not surprise me. The speed limit will be 80 km/h.

This road was originally planned in the 1960's as the A69 motorway, and the A24 motorway in Belgium, which was to run from Eindhoven to Hasselt. It would continue south from the "De Hogt" motorway interchange towards the Belgian border. The Belgians actually did construct their motorway, although it is numbered the N74.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15/A29 Interchange Vaanplein*

Some very cool aerial pictures of the motorway interchange Vaanplein. The A15 will be widened to 10 lanes here.





































All photos: https://beeldbank.rws.nl, Rijkswaterstaat / Joop van Houdt


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## SkyView

Nice pics !
What is the final design of this interchange ?


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## ChrisZwolle

Here are two design schemes:


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## SkyView

Thanks !
A bit weird though...where there is enough space for a nice 4-level stack...


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## ChrisZwolle

I assume they want to use the existing viaducts as much as possible, considering the interchange was rebuilt in 2003 because of the construction of the Betuwe Route freight railway, otherwise they would have to replace some viaducts after less than one tenth of their estimated lifespan.


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## SkyView

Sounds reasonable.


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## Koesj

The plans for moving the A10 south Amsterdam ringway partially underground are creeping forward: http://www.centrumpp.nl/Images/Structuurvisiekaart 2012-02-09_tcm318-327859.pdf


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## ChrisZwolle

Traffic congestion on northbound A4 near Leiden is so bad they installed a VMS counting down the days the roadway will be shifted through the new aquaduct. It's congested nearly all day.


----------



## pilspaus

hmm yea kinda, its easy to guess what traffic yams they have to report after morning news, alsways the same at Leidschendam, would be a real improvement if it works out, and Chris is right, even now almost 12PM there is still a yam, short but still


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## woutero

I was stuck in traffic there last night at 23.30. There was only one lane available.


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## ChrisZwolle

Northbound traffic on A4 will be shifted through the Aquaduct Oude Rijn on March 31th.


----------



## mapman:cz

DEL


----------



## keokiracer

All 155(!) pics can be found here (with locations and info in Dutch)


Between the A4 en the junction with the N259 and N286 a left lane has gotten it's first 2 layers of asphalt.









The road over the viaduct for agricultural traffic (temporarily for all traffic). The slope on the east side of the A4









The _Lagemetenweg_ used to be here. The asphalt has been removed and the sound barrier is already nearly as high as the surrounding sound barriers









Start of the new layer of asphalt









Traffic from Bergen Op Zoom will probably drive via this road to the N259 from june 18th









Traffic will pass here









and will go further towards the N259. A new fence has been placed on the edge of forest 'Dassenberg'









Former Nuijten farm: Future lanes towards Bergen Op Zoom.









Aqueduct Steenbergen: Coming closer is impossible (picture)









Slope N259 (looking south) just north of Steenbergen. The N259 will go over the A4 here.









_Zuidzeedijk_ (between Dinteloord and Steenbergen) on the south side: for now the building activity stops at the _Steenbergsche Vliet_









Between the _Zuidzeedijk_ and Dinteloord. Looking towards Dinteloord (northbound, with zoom)









Looking towards the _Zuidzeedijk_ (south): Pretty big difference between the height of both carriageways. Probably around 50 cms









Viaduct exit Dinteloord. The N259/N268 will go over the A4 here too.









One of the 2 roads for construction vehicles towards the Steenbergen aqueduct









This one is from the temporary roundabout, this one is a bit wider.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What kind of camera do you use, the photos look grainy...


----------



## keokiracer

^^ That was a fingerprint on the lens.... I found that out after I came back home :|

I use the same camera I use for my driving videos (I don't have another cam). It's a JVC Everio GZ-HD520. 
Click for a pic (the pic is insanely big)


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## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Den Haag*

The "Utrechtsebaan" - A12 motorway - in Den Haag under construction in 1976. It was part of a large-scale urban renewal project. Contrary to popular belief, there was no large-scale demolition for the construction of the motorway alone. The entire neighborhood was demolished, but the motorway's alignment only took up 1.100 meters, the rest of the alignment the A12 uses was preserved (east of the Den Haag - Amsterdam railway). Less than 5% of the regenerated area was actually used for the motorway (even less than 2% if you consider a larger adjacent regenerated area). Most offices on top of A12 were constructed in the first half of the 1990's.









Beeldbank RWS


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## ChrisZwolle

*A16 Moerdijk Bridge*

The 1936 Moerdijk Bridge was replaced by a wider bridge in 1976. Because the bridge could not be closed for a long time due to traffic constraints, they replaced segment by segment on the existing piers. You can see the new decks are three times as wide as the original bridge.









Beeldbank RWS


----------



## Vignole

Oooh!, if you like civil engineering, the Netherlands are simply impressive. Thanks for the pics, I really appreciate it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*661 traffic fatalities in 2011*

2011 recorded 661 traffic fatalities in the Netherlands, an increase of 3.3% compared to 2010. The main factor was the amount of fatalities among people over 65. 269 people over 65 years of age were killed in 2011, an increase of 60. The number of cyclists killed increased by 23%, and 38% among cyclists over the age of 65.

28 people were killed on motorways with a speed limit of 120 km/h (4%). Another 14 were killed on motorways and expressways with a speed limit of 100 km/h. One pedestrian was killed on an offramp of a 130 km/h motorway. The feared increase in traffic fatalities because of the 130 km/h trials has not occurred, as a matter of fact traffic fatalities on roads with 100 or 120/130 km/h speed limits dropped by nearly 40%. 

Stats:









The source for road type are the police, which does not give a 100% registration rate for all accidents, hence the number is lower than the 661.


----------



## Godius

There was an article in the newspaper that stated that the residential area sign (a) will change to a normal max speed sign of 15km/ph max (b). This surely must be a PVV demand because their voters can't understand a simple sign like the RAS.

(a): 








(b):


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ I agree it's easier to understand. I didn't quite like the previous sign, it looked like a "public park area" sign.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The concept of a "woonerf" is not implemented anymore anyway. It was mainly a 1970's/1980's design.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

I agree that people are too stupid to understand that sign but a simple speed limit sign doesn't really have the same meaning i.e. right of way for pedestrians etc.


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## g.spinoza

^^ There's no need. If you really go 15 km/h, pedestrians outspeed you and you don't even have to yield


----------



## keokiracer

g.spinoza said:


> If you really go 15 km/h, pedestrians outspeed you


Umm, pedestrians walk around 6 km/h (of course old people slower and some faster)


----------



## Stahlsturm

Godius said:


> There was an article in the newspaper that stated that the residential area sign (a) will change to a normal max speed sign of 15km/ph max (b). This surely must be a PVV demand because their voters can't understand a simple sign like the RAS.
> 
> (a):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (b):


My Speedometer starts at 20 (and goes up to 260...), doing 15 reliably might be a serious problem, hahaha.


----------



## Slagathor

I'd like to meet the guy who can do more than 10-15 in those typical 1980s _woonerven_. One of my friends lives in one, it's the most terrible driving experience ever. The street is so cramped it might as well be medieval. Then there's all trees and benches sticking out. Jesus. Makes me feel like I should be traveling by horse. Or pony.


----------



## g.spinoza

keokiracer said:


> Umm, pedestrians walk around 6 km/h (of course old people slower and some faster)


I was using irony hno:


----------



## keokiracer

^^ didn't realize that :bash:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A typical _woonerf_ designed neighborhood in Zwolle.

Narrow, mostly dead-end residential streets, no separate sidewalks, but usually designated parking lots. Small-scale, low-traffic neighborhoods. Usually at least one internal 30 km/h road serves traffic to and from these neighborhoods. They are surrounded by a network of main roads with a 50 km/h speed limit, intersections either with roundabouts, traffic signals or uncontrolled intersections.


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> The concept of a "woonerf" is not implemented anymore anyway. It was mainly a 1970's/1980's design.


On streets where there is no sidewalk, streets which become the kids playground, and they are in fact used only by the people that live there is 15 km/h nor 30 km/h not appropriate solution instead of the woonerf. At least so do say people living in the street.

funny, that this comes close to the rules or no rules discussion topic. The only drivers in such streets are the inhabitants or their visits. And at the same time the inhabitants complain about "te hard rijden". This clearly shows that the free choice is not really the best solution in all cases for a social group. But we could also argue that the street design with no sidewalks and little "social" space mainly for the kids is without traffic regulation faultly.


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ kids should not be playing on streets of any kind (even fast bike traffic is dangerous). They should play on playgrounds (!) and designated areas and parks/greenery.


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ On this, I agree 100%


----------



## Surel

^^ I agree that kids should not play on streets. But if there is litte of other public area then the streets as it is in many dutch housing areas then there is litte left of the social life for the kids, especially the smaller ones. Most of the houses have also no to little garden that doesnt really help it. It is not about where should they be, but about where they are.

It is for me interesting to compare following pictures from CZ and NL The kids from Ostrava or Amsterdam dont really need wonerf, although they live in the block houses they have lots of space to play outside. The kids from Bohumin might need a woonerf, but most of the houses have quite big gardens to compensate. On the pictures from Wolvega and Zwolle there is clearly little space besides the roads and houses left.

This has to do with the NL spacial problems, there is just not enoug place for things. Of course the solution can be have everything institutionalized - also the kids free time. But I guess that kills social life and creates atomized society. Notice that kids just love to play with the kids from the neigbours and socilize. Right here I must say I am the proponent of the kids freedom to have some place to do the things they want to do with their neigbour friends. The last 100 meters to your house doesnt seem like a place that couldnt live with the respect of the automobile drivers for this. Thus I understand why woonerf seems to me a good concept. (and also because people in my neigberhood demaand it in fact .

CZ: Ostrava commies blocks









CZ: Bohumin, residential









NL: Amsterdam blocks










NL: Wolvega









NL: Zwolle, residential


----------



## Mr_Dru

Surel said:


> ^^ I agree that kids should not play on streets. But if there is litte of other public area then the streets as it is in many dutch housing areas then there is litte left of the social life for the kids, especially the smaller ones. Most of the houses have also no to little garden that doesnt really help it. It is not about where should they be, but about where they are.
> 
> It is for me interesting to compare following pictures from CZ and NL The kids from Ostrava or Amsterdam dont really need wonerf, although they live in the block houses they have lots of space to play outside. The kids from Bohumin might need a woonerf, but most of the houses have quite big gardens to compensate. On the pictures from Wolvega and Zwolle there is clearly little space besides the roads and houses left.
> 
> This has to do with the NL spacial problems, there is just not enoug place for things. Of course the solution can be have everything institutionalized - also the kids free time. But I guess that kills social life and creates atomized society. Notice that kids just love to play with the kids from the neigbours and socilize. Right here I must say I am the proponent of the kids freedom to have some place to do the things they want to do with their neigbour friends. The last 100 meters to your house doesnt seem like a place that couldnt live with the respect of the automobile drivers for this. Thus I understand why woonerf seems to me a good concept. (and also because people in my neigberhood demaand it


In '80-'90 we had 'woonerfs' now we have Vinex. A Vinex neighborhood is very child friendly, a lot of green, playgrounds, water, canals and bicyclepaths.

In this thread you will see sum Vinex neighborhoods.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=996213&highlight=vinex


----------



## -Pino-

I spent part of my childhood (1990s) in a woonerf and spent entire days playing on the street. There were separate playgrounds in the area. We played there every now and then too, but the street was too good a ground for some of the games we played ("paalvoetbal", "bussietrap"). In terms of traffic, it all worked perfectly well.

If you look at modern residential areas, I would say that they can still be used for forms of playing on the street, though the stricter layout of streets in modern residential areas as compared to woonerf streets makes the streets less attractive. Be that as it may, now that I have become a person that drives around in residential areas (which I of course did not do when I played there), I would say that there is not much of a safety concern in playing on the streets in those low-traffic streets of residential areas, whether those were built in the modern age of before the woonerf age. In any street with a purely residential function, traffic is low, speeds are also low and there is more than enough room for a sensible form of interaction between playing kids and traffic.


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## ChrisZwolle

I don't like the lack of driveways in the Netherlands. If you look at some residential streets, they usually have one side with dedicated parking lots and the other side is usually one big line of cars, effectively making it a one-way street sometimes. It's a known fact many 1990's - 2000's neighborhoods had a far too low parking norm. Maybe they hope people buy less cars but the reality is virtually all public space is taken by parked cars, hardly the ideal of a residential neighborhood. I lived in three neighborhoods where this was the case, it was not uncommon for people to park their cars on public green spaces if they arrived home after 6 pm.


----------



## -Pino-

True. But don't forget the years before that. In the 1970s woonerf where I spent part of my childhood, every house had its own carport or garage. Next to that, there were around 15 parking spots for every 45 houses. At the time of construction, that was enough to handle visitors while residents used their own garage or carport. But then people started buying second cars and many people started using their garages as a bikeshed / all-purpose room in which the car no longer fit. So these days, there are way too few parking spaces and people just park wherever they see fit. Which is actually prohibited in a woonerf, but it's the only way out.

Chris is right though about 1990s residential areas. But in my experience, they are better than the areas of the previous generation.


----------



## Surel

Mr_Dru said:


> In '80-'90 we had 'woonerfs' now we have Vinex. A Vinex neighborhood is very child friendly, a lot of green, playgrounds, water, canals and bicyclepaths.
> 
> In this thread you will see sum Vinex neighborhoods.
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=996213&highlight=vinex



Thx for the link. The thing I had in mind is that once the neigberhood was build as a woonerf it should be used as a woonerf. I replied with this because the 30 km/h board doesnt mean the same as the woonerf board. It seems to me shortsighted to try (it is impossible like this of course) changing the old woonerf desing into new design by only changing the traffic board.

And I see there also woonerf board .











These boards were introduced in the CZ in the 90s and people seemed to get used to them quite fast. I don't think that sign with 30 is better and certainly doesnt enforce the same things as the woonerf board. I am curious about the real explanation behind this. According to what I think and what I got from talking with authorities (wethouder, politie), the problem is that it is more costly for them to enforce the woonerf rules, thus they want this off their shoulder.



-Pino- said:


> In any street with a purely residential function, traffic is low, speeds are also low and there is more than enough room for a sensible form of interaction between playing kids and traffic.


I think that as well, but obviously at least in our street there are problems with it. And the right of way is really a game changer.


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## ChrisZwolle

It appears that we will have to go to the polls again later this year.

I'm not sure what this brings for the roads in the Netherlands. Maybe the 130 km/h limit would be canceled, although that would be the least of my worries. Thankfully most major projects are already signed and will proceed no matter what. 

Projects that may be delayed or postponed because they are somewhat controversial:

* A9 Badhoevedorp (unlikely though, but it got postponed last time the government collapsed). Record of decision will be signed next Monday.
* A13-A16 link in Rotterdam
* A15 Ressen - Zevenaar extension
* A24 Blankenburg motorway near Rotterdam
* A28 Hoevelaken interchange reconstruction

Except for A9, these projects will not commence before 2015 anyway.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Badhoevedorp*

Although the prime minister tendered the resignation of the entire cabinet to the queen today, infrastructure minister Schultz signed the record of decision for the new A9 around the town of Badhoevedorp, close to Amsterdam.

The new motorway will be removed from cutting the town in two and be widened to 2x3 lanes. The Badhoevedorp motorway interchange (A4/A9), the first cloverleaf in the Netherlands, will be significantly modified to accomodate the new A9 motorway.

The procedural planning of A9 went through some delays as the Balkenende-IV cabinet collapsed in early 2010, after which the opposition declared the project controversial. The result was a delay of approximately 1.5 years. Luckily the current record of decision was signed in time, only the Council of State can stop it now if there is a legal basis to do so, which is rather unlikely. The new motorway is planned to open in 2017, and the entire project being completed in 2018, including the demolition of the existing A9.

A9 rendering:









Minister Schultz signed the record of decision at an elementary school in Badhoevedorp.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Maastricht double-deck tunnel*

Some progress photos of the A2 Maastricht double-deck tunnel. It will open in 2016. It's technically probably the most challenging project currently going on in the Netherlands. The first concrete was recently poured.


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## Wilhem275

The A9 diversion is very interesting, as well as the "parallel interchange" that will be created.

Now that this government has come to an end, may I ask you dutchmen your opinions about Minister Schultz's work in these years? I mean about both road and rail main networks.
Any possibility to see this person again in the same role?


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## keokiracer

^^ In my opinion she was very good, but she can't take all credit since Eurlings (Minister before Schultz) set the basis for a lot of the projects. Very good duo  kay:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A27 Utrecht widening*

The 5th lane (3rd through lane) opened today along A27 on the east side of Utrecht. Traffic can now utilize 3 through lanes from Everdingen interchange to Utrecht-North interchange.

The lane on the left opened:

A27 Amelisweerd-10 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Utrecht - Veenendaal widening*

The constructor of the A12 Utrecht - Veenendaal widening is using an innovative technique to pour the so-called "double layer porous asphalt". The Netherlands, amongst a few other countries like Japan, uses porous asphalt for quite some time to improve drainage and reduce noise by 3 dB, compared to regular asphalt concrete. Double-layer porous asphalt can reduce noise by 6 dB, a significant achievement, comparable to a reduction of traffic volumes by 75%. Normally the top layer is poured in two sessions, now they poured it in one session for the first time:


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## mappero

^^ That's true - is so convenient and quite to drive in Netherlands  But as I remember this porous layout create black ice in winter and increase the process of destruction of motorways. Does it? 
What about the costs?


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## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Badhoevedorp motorway interchange*

A schematic for the reconstruction of the A4/A9 Badhoevedorp motorway interchange. 
It is currently a cloverleaf with D/C lanes, but the new A9 outside Badhoevedorp requires a complete reconstruction of the interchange. 

A4 and A9 will run next to eachother for a short distance. 
This cross-section, if you can count it as one, will feature 21 lanes of traffic. Both A4 and A9 will feature 2x3 through lanes. 
Most connectors will feature 2 lanes.


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## mgk920

^^
That kind of reminds me of the I-88/355 interchange in Chicago's western suburbs:

Map:
http://maps.google.com/?ll=41.813675,-88.039284&spn=0.036591,0.055189&t=m&z=14

Aerial image:
http://maps.google.com/?ll=41.813675,-88.039284&spn=0.036591,0.055189&t=k&z=14

Mike


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## Surel

^^
What will be the connection to the Badhoevendorp then? Why don't they leave at least part of the connection and only downgrade the A9 in Badhoevendorp to an booulevard. Do you have the schema for the whole area?

edit: I see, the schema in the second link, thx. Still I think they could have make a connection there perhaps.


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## Wilhem275

The complete project is in post #7030 

As far as I can see, the present-day cloferleaf does not provide a urban acces to Badhoevendorp; the exit lies a little bit to the West and will remain in the same place.


From the general scheme I see that the A5 is to be continued northwards, as the interchange was designed for. Will it connect to this area?
http://maps.google.com/?ll=52.393778,4.789352&spn=0.020898,0.038581&t=k&z=15


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## keokiracer

kubam4a1 said:


> Any chance for 80->90 and 100->110 where applied, as well as for 100->110 at 2 + 2 autoweg?


I definitely wouldn't count on that :|


----------



## snowdog

80>100 will still happen afaik.

the rest, I doubt it, too many eco morons in Holland.

And meh, the speed limit is not really a limit, it's more of a ''financial advisable speed'' imho. I usually don't care at all about the speed limit, drive to the conditions, and watch out for unmarked coppers, highway robbers with radars&lasers and speed camera's. 

Nobody is going to force me to drive 100 km/h in the middle of the night on empty wide well lit flat & perfectly straight highways.

Hell, these days it's cheaper to get a laser jaCOUGH parking sensor ( legal loophole still, they can't do you for ''forgetting'' to turn of your laser based parking sensor) than to pay a fine for some prick sitting on a viaduct with his laser gun in the middle of the night. And a good cone filter on a radar detector will pretty much mask it from the Radar detector detector of the cops, OR buy you enough time to turn it off before they notice whose it is.

Only reason not to go for one imho is the false alarms it gives these days due to radar based Cruise control/adaptive cruise control these days in cars.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*30% less congestion in April*

The ANWB reports the congestion level in April decreased by 30%, compared to April 2011, despite the pretty rainy weather which occurred throughout most of April. They cite the improved highway infrastructure as the main reason for the lower level of congestion, specifically in the Amsterdam metropolitan area. The 30% decrease is comparable to the 30% decrease during the first quarter of 2012. The trend of lower congestion levels continues for about 2 years straight now, since the completion of major road widening projects. It's the most significant decline in Dutch traffic history.


----------



## Suburbanist

*Green cars cost treasury €1.3bn*



> A surge in the sale of energy-efficient cars cost the government €1.3bn in lost tax income last year, the national statistics office CBS said on Wednesday.
> 
> Last year consumers and companies bought 206,000 cars that were exempt from vehicle tax (bpm) because they were considered to be green. The figure is 3.5 times higher than in 2009.
> 
> In 2009, the tax was not levied on 15% of new cars, but last year the figure rose to 37%, costing the treasury €1.3bn in lost tax receipts.
> 
> Meanwhile, the number of new motorbikes bought in the Netherlands last year reached 11,0000, well down on 2008’s record 17,000. Some 70% of Dutch motorbike riders are over the age of 40 and getting older, the CBS said.


Source


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## ChrisZwolle

Another typical measure from the government that's more popular than anticipated, so they have to cancel it. It happens all the time here (also with non-mobility topics).


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## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> Another typical measure from the government that's more popular than anticipated, so they have to cancel it. It happens all the time here (also with non-mobility topics).


Its well within the logic of the measure. Make it popular, then cancel it, because it will be popular already. Although I think they should have establish it for low consumption vehicles rather then low emmissions. I think ultimately this will move on to electric vehicles tax extemption if there is someone sensible.


Although it will be quite hard. It doesnt make much sence for the "greedy" politician that wants to spend the tax money. But I think there are better things to tax .

At least the government only lost money due to the missing tax. It did not have to pay yearly subsidies on the account of the sold cars .


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## ChrisZwolle

*A10 Amsterdam*

Two renders of the widened A10 between the new A5 elevated motorway and the twinned Coen Tunnel. There are currently only 4 lanes here.

location @ Google Maps



















construction photo:


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## Road_UK

From Amsterdam destination Rotterdam on these signs. Obviously they are optimistic to finalize the missing A4 link with Rotterdam (Schiedam).


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## aswnl

^^
No, has nothing to do with the A4.

NL now has a system of next-maindestinations and final-destinations of a road, but a new system will be implemented where the final destinations will be exchanged for network-destinations - control cities. Those are: Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Utrecht, Breda, Eindhoven, Maastricht, Arnhem/Nijmegen, Hengelo, Zwolle and Groningen.


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## Road_UK

I find the Dutch way of signposting sometimes complicated. Rotterdam is signposted from Antwerp, but Antwerp from Dordrecht only. In Germany, Amsterdam is signposted from Osnabrück, including on all the local roads towards the motorway, but from Amsterdam you have to deal with Hengelo only. HOWEVER, Oberhausen is continiously on these boards from Utrecht onwards, but the German signs will not help you with Utrecht until you have reached the border, and you have to make do with Arnhem instead.


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## Koesj

So international differences have a bearing on the consistency of internal Dutch signposting? Am I missing something?


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## -Pino-

Point has little to do with international driving. Within countries (and not only NL), it happens a lot that the towns signposted do not mirror. Town A may be considered a relevant focal point from Town B, but that is not to say that Town B is automatically relevant from Town A.

In Germany in particular, this happens a lot. München is signposted from Limburg an der Lahn, but from Munich itself they won't even give you Frankfurt. Basel is signposted from the beginning of the A5, yet in a northerly direction, they will give you Frankfurt and no places beyond. I think that this approach makes sense, as it ensures that towns are signposted on the basis of their relevance for the motorist. And that relevance test is not necessarily a full mirror. I would say that a mirror is quite likely when you tend to pick certain fixed towns as a focal point, such as the terminus of a route or the next town of a decent size. But if, in addition to that, you wish to also signpost places with special relevance to drivers, chances of a mirror decrease.

The Germans have a strong tendency towards this relevance-based approach. They believe that Amsterdam is relevant on their A30, hence they signpost it from Bad Oeynhausen westward. But not even from the Dutch-German border, they will signpost Bad Oeynhausen. In Belgium, they also believe that Rotterdam is relevant on their E19, but the Dutch need to choose themselves when they consider Antwerp relevant enough. This was not previously the case, but the new Dutch approach (which, as aswnl mentioned, is currently being rolled out) also highlights a switch to relevance. It might lead to Antwerp being signposted from Rotterdam, so that you get a mirror between the Belgian E19 and the Dutch A16. But Osnabrück, let alone Bad Oeynhausen, will not be relevant on the A1 out of Amsterdam. Maybe they will signpost Osnabrück somewhere in the East, but that should be it. In other words, no mirror. The same will continue to occur on the Dutch A12 and the German A3. Oberhausen is relevant from as early as Utrecht, but from Oberhausen there is little merit in going beyond Arnhem. Only shortly before the border, Utrecht becomes relevant.

In the traditional Dutch approach, by the way, chances of a mirror were much larger. You would get a combination of a regional centre with a town close to the road's terminus. So on the A1, for instance, the western terminus Amsterdam was signposted all the way from the east and the eastern terminus Hengelo was signposted all the way from the west. Regional centres like Apeldoorn and Amersfoort were signposted on a mirroring basis. Easy to work out, but I prefer the new system that is much more based on information that the motorist may be after.


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## Road_UK

I see your point. Thank you for clearing that up. It does not make sense to signpost Kassel from Basel, as the major intersections for through traffic are at Karlsruhe and Frankfurt.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Gouda - Utrecht*

The fourth lane on the eastbound A12 between Gouda and Woerden will open to traffic next Monday. Then finally the entire A12 between Gouda and Utrecht will feature 2x4 lanes. The motorway is one of the busiest intercity motorways in the Netherlands, with 150.000 - 180.000 vehicles per day. The eastbound A12 was the 12th worst traffic jam in 2011, which will be solved as of next Monday.

Here's an aerial photo of A12 before the widening near De Meern.


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## Slagathor

Weird placement of those farms, all in a line and so close together. You don't see that much in other parts of the country.

Good news on the motorway. kay:


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## aswnl

The 4th lane had already been opened between Gouda and Nieuwerbrug and between Woerden and Utrecht. Now it's time for the last section between Nieuwerbrug and Woerden.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N307 Dronten - Lelystad*

The new N307 between Dronten and Lelystad in the Flevoland province opened to traffic today. I made a video of the new 100 km/h road.


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## Wilhem275

Damn! The video ended just before a turboroundabout! :lol:


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## bogdymol

Nice video! The road is "Strumatic", but I don't like it: you can't pass a slower vehicle (not even emergency vehicles can pass slower ones) and I think that the overpasses are not designed be able to have 2+2 lanes under them.


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## Agnette

ChrisZwolle said:


> The new N307 between Dronten and Lelystad in the Flevoland province opened to traffic today. I made a video of the new 100 km/h road..


Amazing *2x1* road!
And what does it mean the "*b*" letter on this sign?:


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## Suburbanist

^^ Reliability is definitively not a problem for electric motors. They are quite a proven concept in many industrial fields, and much more stable than internal combustion engine.

Indeed, the major lap will come when they deploy not one, but 4 engines, one powering each wheel, controlled by some electronic steering mechanism.

That'd get rid of around 35-40% of each cars' weight.


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## ChrisZwolle

With reliability I do not only mean mechanical reliability, but also the capability to perform in heat / cold and the availability of your car. If you have 20% of fuel left, you can still reach numerous fuel stations, but if you have 20% battery left, it may get nasty. Another issue is that not everyone has a garage to recharge their battery. The idea of charging your car overnight at a public parking space is not very appealing to me. I also doubt if the electric car has any towing / utility capabilities.


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## ChrisZwolle

*modal split & travel times*

The Dutch Bureau of Statistics (CBS) published some statistics about commuting to work and working at home.

Here are some statistics. They do not reveal anything particular new, but are interesting nonetheless.

_modal split in the Netherlands (travel methods, not travel prestation (mileage))_









_travel times in the Netherlands (commuting)_









_Modal split by job type_









As was widely known, the passenger car is by far the most popular method of travel, in all work fields. The car has at least a plurality and mostly a majority in the commuting share to various jobs. The car was least used for people working in restaurants and bars, at just over 40%. It was most used for construction, being used just over 80%. Train usage was the highest among civil servants, most likely due to financial incentives (most public jobs pay 100% compensation if you travel by public transport) and the location of those jobs typically being near railway stations. 

The train travel times are the longest, mainly due to the longer distances involved. On the other hand other public transport scores pretty bad. In most cities, cycling is faster than using a city bus. Cycling is most popular for people working at restaurants/cafes and in education (teachers) and least popular among people working in construction.


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## Wilhem275

Interesting. Is there also the average travel speed datum?

Another interesting point would be to study multi-modal travels (car+train, bike+transit...).


The region where I live (N-E Italy, around Venice) has a weird urbanisation, with almost no concentration (no large cities) but with widespread built-up areas. Similar to the Randstad or Ruhrgebiet nothing is really far but travel times can be high.
Administrators are pushing on the concept of car+train, not meant as using the car just up to the nearest station but as reaching the city outskirst with the car, then P+R near main highway exits just outside the city centers.
I think this is not working, since once you're in your car and near to the center then you'll try to reach directly your destination and not wasting time parking and waiting for a train.
This type of multimodal travel joins the disadvantages of both vectors: the hassle of driving and parking your private vehicle and the higher travel time of PT (mainly due to waiting times).

I am wondering about how would this model work in the Netherlands.


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## ChrisZwolle

P+R is a common concept in the Netherlands. A lot of P+R's are well-used, though the differences of scale apply here. 200 or 500 cars less on a motorway that carries 150.000 is not really that significant. P+R's tend to be popular mainly because of the expensive parking fees in city centers. P+R's outside the Randstad metropolitan area are generally underused, sometimes extremely so, especially if you can only switch to buses. I know of a P+R with 150 parking spots where less than 5 spots are generally occupied by cars.

Carpool parking spots are currently near most motorway exits, the usage of them varies. They are also popular among those working in construction because they often switch to different locations. Overall carpooling represents a marginal amount of all commuting traffic.


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## Slagathor

The modal split by job type is entirely logical. Most restaurants and bars (though not necessarily hotels) are in city centers, often in the historic parts where driving and parking can be annoying or downright impossible. Construction workers, on the other hand, usually work pretty far removed from public transport hubs and they also have to carry their own tools which you can't do on a bus or a train.

I was a bit surprised at the high figure for civil servants. I realize that's probably because I live in The Hague where all the national government institutions are near train stations. But Rijkswaterstaat buildings in provincial cities, for instance, are usually pretty far out of the way so it makes sense.


----------



## julesstoop

I work in the public sector as well (SVB) and most of our offices are near a train station and/or bus station. Secondly: most of them have very limited parking accommodation (probably because creating parking space is relatively expensive in urban areas).


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> . In most cities, cycling is faster than using a city bus.


Which is exactly the reason half the buslines should be scrapped and the money invested in bicycle and car infrastructure.

Buses, useless rubbish transport, and they get their own bloody lanes too!

Haha I'm on number 2 and 3 in terms of car use. I work in Transport/Logistics and in IT/Communications.


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## keokiracer

snowdog said:


> Buses, useless rubbish transport, and they get their own bloody lanes too!


Come over here in Halsteren and have a look at the buses in rush hour. Everyday an extra bus comes from Tholen, Dinteloord and Hoogerheide (that one doesn't go through Halsteren) because the original buses are overcrowded. In the winter, there are 3 extra buses per route! I do have to agree that outside rush hour they're a lot more empty, but I still would keep those bus lines. And before you say: well, they can all cycle: The cycle paths are crowded as hell. This and this junction everyday have huge cycle-backups. The first one is by far the worst. You can easily lose up to 10 minutes at that traffic light... That's why I always skip the line on the left side, alongside the mopeds :banana:. 
But the worst day ever was 2 years ago in the winter. It was snowing like hell, the buses weren't driving and the trafic lights on that junction were broken. I'm not kidding when I say that the cycle traffic jam started 700 meters before the traffic light. I was 35 minutes late for school that day :nuts:. Wasn't that bad though. I practically missed the most boring class of the day


----------



## Wover

snowdog said:


> Buses, useless rubbish transport, and they get their own bloody lanes too!.


Hmm let's see what happens to your opinion when you turn 50 .

I think in most cases bicyle is faster than bus, but the bus is more comfortable, doesn't get you wet or killed etc.


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## Suburbanist

^^ In Netherlands, buses transport less passengers than train, half of km-passenger only. Still, buses ate up 75% of all subsidies for operation of public transport (the trains usually pay for their operations).


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## ChrisZwolle

*N50 Ramspol Bridge*

The movable decks of the Ramspol Bridge have been installed. They weigh 430 tonnes.

Photos by _De Stentor_:


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## Surel

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ In Netherlands, buses transport less passengers than train, half of km-passenger only. Still, buses ate up 75% of all subsidies for operation of public transport (the trains usually pay for their operations).



Does anyone know anyone with a Sterabonnement? I guess not many, and if he did, anyway the price is ridiculous to encourage buying it and use it. It is of course misfortunate when the buses are used as oversized and subsidized taxies. Concept of city or regional public transport where everyone is charged based on the kms he uses is a misconception. Its like trying to exclude the word public from the public transport.

In fact the only time based abonnement that really works in the NL is the Student-OV... the paradox is that it is paid by the government anyway.

Eg, in Rotterdam, as I understand it from here , if I wanted to have monthly abonnement to ride only in the whole of city of Rotterdam I would need acces to 13 zones. 



> Ster maandabonnementen voltarief
> Aantal sterren	Prijs per maand
> 1-ster € 44,70
> 2-ster € 73,40
> 3-ster € 109,05
> 4-ster € 145,15
> 5-ster € 180,80
> 6-ster € 216,70
> N-ster € 256,95


That would require some 4-ster tariff. Well 145 €. Lets say if I used the saldo instead. For average price of 2 euro per ride I would get 70 rides. Where is the motivation for the time tarrif then? Yeah, most people will rather cycle now and then and buy the gas from time to time  and when there is no other way, they use the bus and pay two euro, or call a taxi.


----------



## Slagathor

Surel said:


> Does anyone know anyone with a Sterabonnement? I guess not many, and if he did, anyway the price is ridiculous to encourage buying it and use it. It is of course misfortunate when the buses are used as oversized and subsidized taxies. Concept of city or regional public transport where everyone is charged based on the kms he uses is a misconception. Its like trying to exclude the word public from the public transport.
> 
> In fact the only time based abonnement that really works in the NL is the Student-OV... the paradox is that it is paid by the government anyway.


I have a sterabonnement in The Hague. Two stars, so that's €73,40 per month. It's unlimited, so I don't just use it for my commute, but for everything else as well. Once or twice I didn't buy one and went a month without to see if it made a difference. Boy, did it. Without a sterabonnement, I spend some €125 a month on transportation.



> Eg, in Rotterdam, as I understand it from here , if I wanted to have monthly abonnement to ride only in the whole of city of Rotterdam I would need acces to 13 zones.
> 
> 
> 
> That would require some 4-ster tariff. Well 145 €. Lets say if I used the saldo instead. For average price of 2 euro per ride I would get 70 rides. Where is the motivation for the time tarrif then? Yeah, most people will rather cycle now and then and buy the gas from time to time  and when there is no other way, they use the bus and pay two euro, or call a taxi.


Nobody would be daft enough to take a 4-star subscription. Let's say you usually travel in and around the city center. Then you get a 2-star subscription for zone 5300. This allows you to travel within and between zones 5300, 5310, 5311, 5314, 5315 and 5319.
Then if you want to travel to 5328, you don't have to pay anything until the outer border of zone 5314. You only pay a small surcharge for the part of the journey within zone 5328.

Assuming you don't travel across 5 or 6 zones for your commute, a sterabonnement is almost always worth it.


----------



## MattN

Unfortunate then that they are being abolished in so many places!


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## cristof

NL cant stop building up new roads... it is amazing...best system in Europe .


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## Road_UK

What happened to the good old strippenkaart. They certainly haven´t made things easy...


----------



## MrAronymous

Road_UK said:


> What happened to the good old strippenkaart. They certainly haven´t made things easy...


I don't know what the sterabonnement is they're talking about, but I do know the strippenkaart system was replaced with the OV-Chipkaart.
It's a nationwide Oyster Card-like system.


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## snowdog

Just read a bit about agression in traffic, and imho it's caused by this:

The problem in Holland for car drivers is mainly the government policy.

Aggression and other bad behaviour is getting worse and worse, because the government seems to do anything to frustrate the flow of traffic ( and ridiculous speed limits, and ruining perfect good roads to ****, ( A208>N208 ( motorway ruined to normal road with a 50km/h slower speed limit ( 120>70 km/h), A325>Prins Mauritssingel ( interruption free road ruined to city road with traffic lights), N262 ( perfectly good 2x2 road ruined to 1x2) ), and increase costs of car travel. Along with the increasing traffic.

Simply more roads ( supply and demand evened out again), less ''duurzaam veilig'' and don't increase road tax, parking costs or fuel duty any more and people will automatically be more relaxed on the road imho. We are going the wrong way, the way this is going we'll have more and more aggression and disrespect of the rules on the road. Same with the police protests recently, the respect of the police is already at an all time low and aggression out of control, what do they do, annoy citizens by driving 30 km/h on main roads as a protest for more wage, idiots.

I'm willing to bet if the government doesn't take up a more car friendly policy soon, and generally a more liberal people friendly policy with less rules and regulations, there will be more and more violence and disrespect towards public servants. Enforcing rules like this will accomplish nothing, poke an animal too much and he will bite you.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Benelux Tunnel*

Today it's 10 years ago the second Benelux Tunnel in Rotterdam opened to traffic. The A4 motorway runs through the tunnel with 5 tubes, although one is always closed as an escape tube, which means 8 lanes are available. 

The first Benelux Tunnel opened in 1967 as a toll tunnel. The tolls were abolished in 1980. The toll used to be 1 Guilder for cars and 2.5 Guilders for trucks and buses. 

Because of the continuous westward expansion of the Port of Rotterdam, additional capacity was needed across the Maas River. This started in 1990 when the Second Brienenoord Bridge opened on the east side of Rotterdam. The construction of the Second Benelux Tunnel commenced in 1997 and the tunnel opened to traffic on May 11th, 2002. A subway tunnel was simultaneously constructed, and both were officially inaugurated on November 2nd, 2002. 

A 2002 photo showing the Second Benelux Tunnel nearly finished.








_Beeldbank RWS_


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> How many of such bridges (2+2+4) will Netherlands ultimately have? Because I don't think for obvious reasons they can remove the central pylon there :lol:


There is another bridge with that setup, which is the IJssel Bridge near Westervoort, just east of Arnhem. It carries the A12 motorway. It has 4+2+2 lanes, though the outermost lanes are not through lanes (they begin/end at the Velperplein roundabout). 

Such situations only occur if another bridge is constructed next to it. It is not impossible the Merwede Bridge near Gorinchem (A27) will feature a similar layout, because they desperately need to do this "on the cheap" due to the lack of funding.


----------



## Surel

snowdog said:


> snowdog'.



the others walk over them, not government. If people are behaving ruthless its not fault of the government but of the people. Government is in fact something that rises from the willingnes of people to restrain themselves.

If you want to live in a really free country I would advise Somalia...


----------



## Palance

snowdog said:


> That is because drivers pay a lot for their privilege and therefore have higher expectations of their form of travel.


There is the main reason. People pay for something and think that it implies that they can do everything and act like there is none else around. So then it can be a bit disappointing to see that there are more people with the same privilege who want to act like there is none else around. And that wil show the typical Dutch nature: "ikke, ikke, ikke": "Me, myself and I". And as stated before, agression als happend on other places which have nothing to do with road travel, so it proves that is had nothing to do with any lack of space on the roads, speed limits, etc.


----------



## snowdog

Palance said:


> There is the main reason. People pay for something and think that it implies that they can do everything and act like there is none else around. So then it can be a bit disappointing to see that there are more people with the same privilege who want to act like there is none else around. And that wil show the typical Dutch nature: "ikke, ikke, ikke": "Me, myself and I". And as stated before, agression als happend on other places which have nothing to do with road travel, so it proves that is had nothing to do with any lack of space on the roads, speed limits, etc.


That goes both ways, imho ''slow'' drivers are the ones who can act like there's no one else around, taking no account at all for the time (=money) of other people.

Luckily on the road most drivers have the right idea, there is only a minority of people deliberately not letting other pass them, you have motorists warning each other for the danger ahead (radar traps, laser speed traps, etc), that is hardly egoistic behaviour, that is motorists uniting against the terror against them.

Much aggression is caused by testing peoples patience unneccesarily in the first place, that doesn't just apply to traffic.


----------



## Surel

snowdog said:


> That goes both ways, imho ''slow'' drivers are the ones who can act like there's no one else around, taking no account at all for the time (=money) of other people.
> 
> Luckily on the road most drivers have the right idea, there is only a minority of people deliberately not letting other pass them, you have motorists warning each other for the danger ahead (radar traps, laser speed traps, etc), that is hardly egoistic behaviour, that is motorists uniting against the terror against them.
> 
> Much aggression is caused by testing peoples patience unneccesarily in the first place, that doesn't just apply to traffic.


I could not help to write this, its funny, and any mod can feel free to delete my last comments including this one. But please snowdog, don't test my patience :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Arnhem widening*

The widening of A12 near Arnhem to 2x3 lanes is nearly completed. It has been suggested the 2x3 lanes may even open tomorrow.


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


>


Very odd lane constraint signaling in the gantry.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Not entirely new


----------



## bogdymol

^^ I love the motorway signs in NL. They are all very clear (not like ours...).


----------



## Palance

bogdymol said:


> ^^ I love the motorway signs in NL. They are all very clear (not like ours...).


Not always that clear. People could read this situation as: Exit Arnhem-Noord is after the A12/A50 intersection.

















But if you think that, you're wrong, since it seemed to be an exit on the A50:


----------



## bogdymol

^^ It's still better than this...



Baiazid said:


>


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Arnhem widening*

The A12 widening near the city of Arnhem was completed this morning. In less than 9 months they replaced 3 viaducts, widened 2 viaducts and 1 tunnel. The motorway currently has 2x3 lanes to handle the 100.000 vehicles that use this section on a daily basis.

Some photos I took this morning:


A12 Arnhem-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A12 Arnhem-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A12 Arnhem-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A12 Arnhem-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A12 Arnhem-7 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A12 Arnhem-8 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A12 Arnhem-10 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Driving widened A12:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Den Haag*

Minister Schultz van Haegen has decided about the A4 project around Den Haag (The Hague). The goal is to better distribute traffic to and from Den Haag, and increase capacity on the Den Haag bypass (A4).

The A4 will be widened with a local-express setup between N14 and Beatrixlaan, a distance of 3.5 kilometers. The exact design is not known yet, adding a local-express setup along A4 may widen this motorway to as much as 20 lanes, because there are currently already 16 lanes. In addition, A4 will be widened further south to the Den Hoorn exit. A short section of A13 will be widened to 10 lanes. (€ 319 million)

Several A4 interchanges will be expanded in capacity.

Two intersections along N14 will be grade-separated (€ 63 million)

N211 will be widened to 2x3 lanes, and grade-separated. (€ 37 million)
N211 will be grade-separated along the west side of Den Haag until the Erasmusweg. (€ 58 million)
Two grade-separated interchanges will be constructed along the Beatrixlaan in Den Haag. (€ 90 million)


----------



## the_Aristocrat

A video I recently made of driving on the A20 towards Rotterdam. At 03m40 you will see an Opel Corsa that I pass, and if you listen closely you can hear it smashing into the traffic jam at 04m00. Wondered why he pulled up next to me when after I passed him, but did not slow down / see the traffic jam.

Curious thing, I was the 2nd accident that happened right next to me that week. :nuts:


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## CitoyenNéerlandais

^^Thanks. Really good video with a good quality.


----------



## the_Aristocrat

CitoyenNéerlandais said:


> ^^Thanks. Really good video with a good quality.


I am so happy with my new (2nd hand) HD-cam, makes massive videos (got an extra external HD) but the quality is really fine. Got a second Rotterdam video in the pipeline, will post it here when it is uploaded.


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> Minister Schultz van Haegen has decided about the A4 project around Den Haag (The Hague). The goal is to better distribute traffic to and from Den Haag, and increase capacity on the Den Haag bypass (A4).
> 
> The A4 will be widened with a local-express setup between N14 and Beatrixlaan, a distance of 3.5 kilometers. The exact design is not known yet, adding a local-express setup along A4 may widen this motorway to as much as 20 lanes, because there are currently already 16 lanes. In addition, A4 will be widened further south to the Den Hoorn exit. A short section of A13 will be widened to 10 lanes. (€ 319 million)
> 
> Several A4 interchanges will be expanded in capacity.
> 
> Two intersections along N14 will be grade-separated (€ 63 million)
> 
> N211 will be widened to 2x3 lanes, and grade-separated. (€ 37 million)
> N211 will be grade-separated along the west side of Den Haag until the Erasmusweg. (€ 58 million)
> Two grade-separated interchanges will be constructed along the Beatrixlaan in Den Haag. (€ 90 million)
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/JBdFD.png[IMG][/QUOTE]
> 
> Wow nice.
> 
> I wish they would grade separate more roads in the Rotterdam area.
> 
> For example, the whole Maasboulevard from the A16 to the Havenziekenhuis can easily be grade separated, just 3 Viaducts needed ( or 2, if you combine the Honingerdijk and Burgemeester Oudlaan into 1 exit).
> The N210 should be grade separated too up to Capelseplein, just 2 viaducts needed.
> The N471 should be grade separated imho, I also think the one who designed the odd roundabout intersection with the N209 is an idiot, what's the point of a roundabout if you place traffic lights on them ?
> S114 (A20 exit) to Marconiplein should be grade separated too imho, just 1 intersection to eliminate.
> Finally, the N492 (Groene Kruisweg) REALLY needs grade separation.
> 
> Also nice about the N211, wish they would have 2x3 lane roads in Rotterdam for the main roads, unfortunately 2x1/1x2 and 2x2 is the standard :(.
> 
> Small costs too in these projects :), far better investment than the expensive tunnels to protect the cows and their grassland...


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## ChrisZwolle

*N33 Assen - Zuidbroek widening 2x2*

Minister Schultz will sign the record of decision tomorrow to duplicate the existing two-lane expressway N33 to four lanes between Assen and Zuidbroek. (35 kilometers). This will link the A28 and A7 motorways by a four-lane expressway. Space has been reserved for a second carriageway. The most interesting works are the A28 interchange near Assen, a slight realignment near Veendam and a new cloverturbine interchange with A7 near Zuidbroek. The rest is a simple duplication of the existing roadway.

1. Assen-Zuid interchange. A long flyover will connect N33 to A28-south. (current configuration)









2. Zuidbroek interchange. A diamond will be replaced by a cloverturbine. (current configuration)


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## snowdog

Nice improvement .


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## Batavier

^^ where else would that tunnel lead to? It looks like the end of an island is reached with the E10 in Norway


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## ChrisZwolle

*A24 Blankenburg Tunnel, Rotterdam*

The A24 Blankenburg Tunnel near Rotterdam has been declared controversial by the Dutch parliament. The Party for Freedom changed its mind about the project, even though they used to be a proponent of the new link. This means there cannot be any further progress until at least after the next elections. This does not necessarily mean it will be delayed, depending on the outcome of the next elections.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*speed limit raise A10 & A12*

The Ministry of Infrastructure and Environment has unveiled plans to raise the speed limit on three urban motorways by July 2nd, 2012.

* A10-West Amsterdam: raise speed limit from 80 to 100 km/h between 0600 and 1900 hrs.
* A12 Den Haag: raise the outbound speed limit from 80 to 100 km/h.
* A13 Overschie (Rotterdam): raise the speed limit from 80 to 100 km/h.


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## Godius

^^

Finally...


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> The A24 Blankenburg Tunnel near Rotterdam has been declared controversial by the Dutch parliament. The Party for Freedom changed its mind about the project, even though they used to be a proponent of the new link. This means there cannot be any further progress until at least after the next elections. This does not necessarily mean it will be delayed, depending on the outcome of the next elections.


Idiots, proof that Wilders doesn't care at all about the hard working Dutch drivers, otherwise he wouldn't block this much needed tunnel.



ChrisZwolle said:


> The Ministry of Infrastructure and Environment has unveiled plans to raise the speed limit on two urban motorways by July 2nd, 2012.
> 
> * A10-West Amsterdam: raise speed limit from 80 to 100 km/h between 0600 and 1900 hrs.
> * A12 Den Haag: raise the outbound speed limit from 80 to 100 km/h.
> * A13 Overschie (Rotterdam): raise the speed limit from 80 to 100 km/h.


Good, but, wouldn't 1900-0600 be a more logical time to go faster than 0600-1900 ?
Ah well, I'm already overjoyed the A13 will be 100km/h instead of that 80 crap...
Just the A20 now in direction east .


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## mappero

ChrisZwolle said:


> Belgium has a very narrow strip of coast to serve its 11 million inhabitants. The Netherlands has a far longer coastline with beaches, but also serves a large population and is relatively poorly accessible. Especially the Haarlem area has always been problematic, due to the lack of decent north-south and east-west routes through the city.
> 
> It's just too bad the Frisian / Groningen coast is swampy instead of beachy. There's hardly any quiet beaches on warm days in the Netherlands. Especially in the coming months when hundreds of thousands of Germans populate Zeeland (and pour much-needed euros in the local economy). Zeeland beaches generally have much better access, especially those near the N57 highway (the dams).


Yeaaa, I remember when I was living in Groningen... Going to the sand beach it was always long journey. The nearest one was in Den Helder or on East Frisian islands reachable by ferry... And of course two option to choose. Traffic jams or paying for ferry...:nuts: That won't work for longer period if you live there...


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## Road_UK

There are some lovely beaches on the Frisian lakes, notably the ones on the IJselmeer. (Workum, Makkum, Hindeloopen) and they are all within easy reach.


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## Surel

Road_UK said:


> There are some lovely beaches on the Frisian lakes, notably the ones on the IJselmeer. (Workum, Makkum, Hindeloopen) and they are all within easy reach.


Yeah, and in Stavoren and nearby Oudermindum... but those are tiny or city beaches. It is nice though going on bike around the lakes and so. Also quite relaxed. Never had a problem with traffic jam there . But yeah, thats not the ocean and the water is not salty and the waves are not there .


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## julesstoop

The stretch of beach starting about 1-2 km's north of Noordwijk is always surprisingly quiet. If you get to Noordwijk and rent a bike it's pretty easy to get to.


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## Road_UK

julesstoop said:


> The stretch of beach starting about 1-2 km's north of Noordwijk is always surprisingly quiet. If you get to Noordwijk and rent a bike it's pretty easy to get to.


Langervelderslag.


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## Suburbanist

I guess there is a quite continuous beach from Katwijk all the way to the IJ estuary?

They should develop more that stretch of coast... not entirely, but couple access roads and beach infrastructure.


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## Road_UK

Problem is, that the area between Noordwijk and Haarlem is a nature protection area, as well as a water protection area.


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## ChrisZwolle

Another downgraded road, the N262 divided highway south of Roosendaal was narrowed from 2x2 to 1x2 lanes. Some called the new road layout below design standards, inviting head-on accidents due to the lack of correction space.

before:









after:


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## bogdymol

^^ Yeah, the new road is a lot safer now!


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## ChrisZwolle

An old photo of the William's Bridge in Rotterdam. This bridge, constructed in 1878, was one of the first major river crossings by road in the Netherlands. Most major river crossings in the 1800's were railroad bridges. The large bridge on the right is the old William's Rail Bridge.

The old road bridge was originally an all-purpose bridge, and wasn't used by automobiles until the invention of them. Non-motorized traffic was directed to the outside spans in the 1920's due to increased traffic. It used to be the only fixed road link in Rotterdam until the Maas Tunnel opened in 1942. It was later reconstructed to three lanes, with the center lane being a reversible lane. This concept is still in use in nearby Spijkenisse.

Both bridges are now gone. The road bridge was replaced in 1981 with the New William's Bridge and the railroad bridge was replaced by a tunnel in 1993. This significantly improved both rail and water traffic.









Photo: Beeldbank RWS


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## italystf

Why 3 lanes? Was the central one used for overtaking in both directions, like in some half-built Italian autostrade back in the 50s?


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## ChrisZwolle

It was originally just a 9 - 10 meter wide roadway, as cars did not exist at that time. I assume it was later divided into two wide lanes, and then reconstructed to 1x3 lanes, with the center lane being reversible (note the signalling signs above the roadway). I assume there were two northbound lanes in the morning and two southbound lanes in the afternoon.

This bridge was never part of a motorway or trunk road, but did carry all through traffic until 1942.


----------



## italystf

ChrisZwolle said:


> It was originally just a 9 - 10 meter wide roadway, as cars did not exist at that time. I assume it was later divided into two wide lanes, and then reconstructed to 1x3 lanes, with the center lane being reversible (note the signalling signs above the roadway). I assume there were two northbound lanes in the morning and two southbound lanes in the afternoon.
> 
> This bridge was never part of a motorway or trunk road, but did carry all through traffic until 1942.


I didn't noticed the overhead signs. I didn't know that the concept of reversible lane with lights (green arrow and red cross) existed back in the 40s.


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## ChrisZwolle

*History*

Today it's exactly 40 years ago the largest motorway opening in the Dutch history occurred. The A1 motorway was opened from Terschuur to Markelo, a distance of 67 kilometers. It included the passage through the Veluwe area, the bypasses of Apeldoorn and Deventer, a large bridge across the IJssel River and at the same time a portion of A50 around Apeldoorn opened as well, bringing the total opened mileage that day to 80 kilometers. Large motorway openings were uncommon in the Netherlands, and most motorway openings in Dutch history were less than 10 kilometers long.

A1 under construction across the Veluwe:








Photo: Beeldbank RWS


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## Penn's Woods

^^1942? Was much highway construction going on in Europe during the war?


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## mgk920

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^1942? Was much highway construction going on in Europe during the war?


40 years ago was 1972.

Mike


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## ChrisZwolle

There was quite a bit of highway construction in the Netherlands and Germany between 1940 and 1942. Construction ceased mostly in 1943. The only other 1940 - 1945 motorway openings in war-torn Europe I know of was a portion of French A13 in Paris (1941) and Belgian E40 near Aalter (1940, may have been before the war). The Netherlands did not open much in the 1940's, but construction of A12 between Utrecht and Arnhem was continued by the Germans, as it was considered "Kriegswichtig" (i.e. important for the war).


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## keokiracer

mgk920 said:


> 40 years ago was 1972.
> 
> Mike


He was referring to the Williams Bridge (Willemsbrug) in Rotterdam.


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## Penn's Woods

^^Exactly.

Bedankt.


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## italystf

In Italy highways construction stopped in 1935 because of the bad economical crisis related to the international sanctions after Ethiopia invasion. We didn't build nothing new in the following 20 years.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Traffic congestion at a 12-year low*

According to a new Rijkswaterstaat publication, traffic congestion at the Dutch motorways are currently at a 12-year low, while traffic volumes are at an all-time high, being approximately 16% higher than in 2000. 

Traffic congestion peaked in 2007, with 15.5 million kilometer-minutes of traffic congestion. It's currently at 9.8 million kilometer-minutes, below the 10 million of the year 2000, and is still decreasing.

The construction of new lanes and motorway segments are paying off. Before 2008, annual increases of 10% or more traffic congestion were common, but traffic congestion has been decreased significantly, especially since 2010. The worst traffic congestion spot is currently the southbound A50 near the Ewijk motorway interchange, due to construction. Capacity will be doubled at this location in 2014.

A way to indicate traffic congestion is the Travel Time Index (TTI). A TTI of 1.0 indicates zero delay, while a TTI of 1.5 indicates it takes 50% more time to travel a certain road. The TTI was reduced from 1.9 to 1.0 along southbound A4 near Leiden. Another significant reduction was along northbound A2 near Utrecht from 1.7 to 1.1. 

5.1% of all traffic congestion is caused by roadworks, well below the limit of 10% and significantly below that of neighboring countries (especially Germany).


----------



## Des

ChrisZwolle said:


> According to a new Rijkswaterstaat publication, traffic congestion at the Dutch motorways are currently at a 12-year low, while traffic volumes are at an all-time high, being approximately 16% higher than in 2000.
> 
> Traffic congestion peaked in 2007, with 15.5 million kilometer-minutes of traffic congestion. It's currently at 9.8 million kilometer-minutes, below the 10 million of the year 2000, and is still decreasing.
> 
> The construction of new lanes and motorway segments are paying off. Before 2008, annual increases of 10% or more traffic congestion were common, but traffic congestion has been decreased significantly, especially since 2010. The worst traffic congestion spot is currently the southbound A50 near the Ewijk motorway interchange, due to construction. Capacity will be doubled at this location in 2014.
> 
> A way to indicate traffic congestion is the Travel Time Index (TTI). A TTI of 1.0 indicates zero delay, while a TTI of 1.5 indicates it takes 50% more time to travel a certain road. The TTI was reduced from 1.9 to 1.0 along southbound A4 near Leiden. Another significant reduction was along northbound A2 near Utrecht from 1.7 to 1.1.
> 
> 5.1% of all traffic congestion is caused by roadworks, well below the limit of 10% and significantly below that of neighboring countries (especially Germany).


I hope this shuts up the people that say building new roads doesn't solve anything once and for all :cheers:


----------



## Godius

Thanks to Balkenende IV and their 'Crisis- en Herstelwet'. :master:


----------



## aswnl

No, the "crisis/ en herstelwet" has nothing to do with it. You'd better thank Camiel Eurlings for streamlining procedures. And perhaps also even Milieudefensie - if it wasn't them who did torpedo the original decision on the A4 near Leiden in 2007, there wouldn't have been massive public and political support for changing the procedures in a way all those anti-road organisations now have far less possibilities to obstruct. So it was a real Phyrrus-victory for the environmentalists in 2007. Times have changed - but regrettably not everywhere in the world. In a lot of retard countries they still think "very political correct", i.e. anti-roads...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A27 Utrecht widening*

The sixth northbound lane along A27 will open to traffic today. The additional lane starts from the A12 motorway at the Lunetten Motorway Interchange, and runs northbound as a third auxiliary lane along the east side of Utrecht, then flows into the widened A28 motorway at the Rijnsweerd Motorway Interchange. (map) 

This means the A27 currently has a cross-section of 4+6 lanes. It is meant to decongest the eastbound A12 motorway in particular, as well as improving traffic flow along northbound A27, and towards the eastbound A28. 

The A27 is now part of a limited group of motorway segments where there are six undivided lanes on one carriageway.

Here's a photo I took when the 5th and 6th lanes were under construction

A27 Amelisweerd-9 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


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## keokiracer

Des said:


> I hope this shuts up the people that say building new roads doesn't solve anything once and for all :cheers:


No... Sadly not... Check out the responses...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

People who comment on news paper sites are almost stupid by default.


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## keokiracer

^^ I comment on them too


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## ChrisZwolle

I rest my case 

Anyway, the newspaper says "traffic remained the same". People comment: "that's because traffic decreased". They simply don't read what's written.


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## keokiracer

I'll do it to myself before *Bogdymol* does it to me:















ChrisZwolle said:


> Anyway, the newspaper says "traffic remained the same". People comment: "that's because traffic decreased". They simply don't read what's written.


That's why I commented  (But my response hasn't been approved yet...)


----------



## bogdymol

keokiracer said:


> I'll do it to myself before *Bogdymol* does it to me:
> 
> http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/kelso-burn.jpg[/ IMG][/QUOTE]
> 
> [URL="http://goo.gl/HGVc"]What about me?[/URL]


----------



## keokiracer

bogdymol said:


> What about me?


I actually like that song 

If you click this, you're...


----------



## lafreak84

What happens in 50 years? You're going to widen roads to 2x20+8 just to prove your point that widening solves congestion problems?


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## ChrisZwolle

Traffic growth is not infinite, as some anti-road people try to suggest. There is and will be no need for 40-lane motorways as there will be no traffic volumes of 1 million vehicles per day on motorways.


----------



## lafreak84

^^ You are right, because at that point the cars will become obsolete. You can widen roads to a certain point, once the critical point is reached the cost of owning a car will be accessible only to the riches or private transportation will be banned all together and the whole transportation system will have to be re-developed. You can either invest in the future or keep throwing money down the well. Whichever works for you.

You keep widening roads in the NL but should an accident occur, half of the country gets stuck in a traffic jam. Looks like the roads aren't wide enough after all. 

_For the reference, I am a huge fan of road infrastructure and driving._


----------



## Suburbanist

sotonsteve said:


> In the UK we have lots of lorry traffic on many motorways, and there are only two or three experimental sections of road with lorry overtaking bans. On roads such as the M25 I have seen lorries in lanes 1, 2, 3 and 4 overtaking each other at perhaps 0.25km/h difference in speed, with lane 5 solid with other traffic. We desperately need more lorry overtaking bans in the UK, much like Germany operates.


I think, at least, any highway with 3 or more lanes should have overtaking bans on all but the 2 rightmost (leftmost in UK) lanes. And many flat sectors should have overtaking bans as well when they are busy with trucks.



> Since motorways have opened up work has become less locally sourced. For example, on a construction site the company doing the works will employ subcontractors based perhaps 100km away, even if there are some located 5km away. It probably comes down to money, but it results in congested roads. Fewer people live near where they work.


In part, yes, but that is positive: is has increased competition and drastically lowered prices of services...

Imagine when people depended mostly on mixed cargo trains to bring what they need and British Rail was a major "retailer" for many intermediate products because it had monopoly on transportation over railways...


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## keokiracer

I was bored as hell today, so I decided to use Kaaiman's Combikaart and make a map that shows traffic volumes for the most important roads. I used data from the Dutch road wiki (obviously in Dutch...) (English page)

*I did not distinguish non-highways and highways. *

Here's the link to the original Combikaart so you can easily compare if you're not familiar with the Dutch highways.

I used traffic data that gives an average per day measured over the entire year. *On working days you should add 5-10% and in months like April or October another 2-5%*

_Please don't pay too much attention to my Paint skills..._









EDIT 1:45 Saw that I forgot 2 bits (1 black bit just south of Rotterdam and near my own house a light blue dot...) so I edited in Paint and posted new pic.


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## Godius

Thanks for making this map. I'm very drunk at the moment so I will take a better look at the map tomorrow.


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## keokiracer

Godius said:


> I'm very drunk at the moment so I will take a better look at the map tomorrow.


You have no idea how hard I lol'd at that :lol:


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## Slagathor

Excellent map!


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## devo

keokiracer said:


> You have no idea how hard I lol'd at that :lol:


+1


----------



## the_Aristocrat

Just a short question, I was searching on the internet when the roadworks between Amersfoort en Utrecht on the highway A28 would be finished. Information that I found indicated that work should finish this summer (June / July / August). 

Is that timeframe still correct? And will that solve the early morning traffic jam near interchange Hoevelaken?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Definitely not. I think it won't be completed until mid-2013 at least. They need to replace some bridges around Amersfoort (the oldest part of the A28 motorway).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A leaking water pipe in the N57 Dampoort Aquaduct in Middelburg.


----------



## Slagathor

Oh for heaven's sake, it's brand new.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A16 Hendrik-Ido-Ambacht*

A couple of photos of the A16 motorway near the town of Hendrik-Ido-Ambacht, not far from both Dordrecht and Rotterdam. This section carries approximately 130.000 vehicles per day.















Photos by Wesso from the Dutch wegenforum


----------



## mappero

ChrisZwolle said:


> A leaking water pipe in the N57 Dampoort Aquaduct in Middelburg.



New low cost approach for project management :| Seen that, done that...

But from other side, 2in1  Tunnel and wasstraat


----------



## keokiracer

I made a new map with more categories (in stead of 50.000-100.000 and 100.000-200.000 it's now 50.000-75000, 75.000-100.000, 100.000-150.000 and 150.000-200.000). The map can be found in the original post further up the page ^^

(Damn, that's a crapload of numbers :nuts


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> A leaking water pipe in the N57 Dampoort Aquaduct in Middelburg.


That would really freak me out seeing this when driving under a channel.


----------



## bogdymol

Surel said:


> That would really freak me out seeing this when driving under a channel.


If you see this you have to drive fast... very fast :runaway:


----------



## Slagathor

Surel said:


> That would really freak me out seeing this when driving under a channel.


I would panic so badly if I saw it in another tunnel just outside of this town. I would kick the gas pedal straight through the car floor.


----------



## snowdog

A little bit of rain and at 18.20 there is still chaos on the roads:










Clearly shows that Rotterdam has the worst infra, the Ring need a massive upgrade or alternatives, and closing of a tunnel ( Maastunnel) causes chaos in the whole city center. No redundancy at all, any less than perfect conditions and traffic grinds to a halt in the whole area. Many local roads are way under capacity too especially to Hillegersberg.

Amesterdam with its widenings does significantly better.


----------



## keokiracer

Near Rotterdam the widenings (A15) and new roads (A4, A24(delayed...) and A13-A16) still have to be opened: that'll reduce traffic congestion a lot! Near amsterdam some adjustments have already been opened (shoulder running A9, extra reversible lane A1 etc.).

BTW: are the parallel lanes of the A16 still closed due to roadworks? The Maastunnel is supposed to be closed until end of August, right? I guess that means chaos until the end of August...


----------



## snowdog

All these projects should fix most issues, the A16-A13 will decongest local roads too for providing a decent north-south link for Schiebroek&Hillegersberg with the Center and Rotterdam East.

And the A15 upgrade &A4 missing ling would provide a decent alternative to The Hague from south...

A24 should be built asap, stupid Wilders.

One problem remains though, Algeracorridor... No real plans for that.




No idea about the A16, it was closed yesterday in the north direction, haven't been on the road today...


----------



## Slagathor

snowdog said:


> A little bit of rain and at 18.20 there is still chaos on the roads:
> 
> https://public.sn2.livefilestore.co...9LaOSUQh3A-JzbtU-guXhzvAsDQ/tomtom.jpg?psid=1
> 
> Clearly shows that Rotterdam has the worst infra, the Ring need a massive upgrade or alternatives, and closing of a tunnel ( Maastunnel) causes chaos in the whole city center. No redundancy at all, any less than perfect conditions and traffic grinds to a halt in the whole area. Many local roads are way under capacity too especially to Hillegersberg.
> 
> Amesterdam with its widenings does significantly better.


You're not wrong that Rotterdam's infrastructure could do with some upgrades, but tonight's picture is a little distorted because Rotterdam was hit by severe thunderstorms while the rest of the Randstad only had some rain.


----------



## Coccodrillo

What are the rural tunnels you are talking about?



ParadiseLost said:


> Little hills are barriers now? They don't stop anyone.


Hills are not, a wall like this, yes.

How will look like Utrecht's "tunnel" from the outside?


----------



## Suburbanist

Coccodrillo said:


> What are the rural tunnels you are talking about?


The new A4 Delft-Schiedam. which will be underground to "protect the picturesque aspect of farmland"

Mind you there has been a levee built for the road there already... since the mid-1960s.




> Hills are not, a wall like this, yes.
> 
> How will look like Utrecht's "tunnel" from the outside?


They will raise the nearby areas and fill with land, making it a kind-of small plateau.


----------



## sotonsteve

Motorways in the Netherlands have some of the best soundproofing. Firstly, there is extensive use of porous low noise asphalt, and secondly there are those huge steel and glass sound barriers. I was astonished when I visited the Netherlands that I could stand next to a motorway and barely hear it.

In contrast, in Britain we are starting to use low noise surfacing, but a lot of road surfaces are very noisy, and our roads generally seem to be some of the noisiest in Europe. Secondly, our sound barriers are pathetic. At most they are just wooden fences with sound-deadening materials between the two skins of wood. A lot of urban areas still lack any form of noise barriers. Even where there are noise barriers, they are so ineffective that they might as well not exist, because the noise from the motorway is still considerable.

So from a noise point of view, motorways in the Netherlands could be considered the envy of the world in my opinion. Thumbs up.


----------



## ParadiseLost

Suburbanist said:


> The new A4 Delft-Schiedam. which will be underground to "protect the picturesque aspect of farmland"
> 
> Mind you there has been a levee built for the road there already... since the mid-1960s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They will raise the nearby areas and fill with land, making it a kind-of small plateau.


Is that going to be underground? I thought it would be sunk but not covered?
What I meant was stuff like the HSR, which has huge tunnels trough rural areas. I think the betuwe route has as well both of them are rail but there are examples of motorway as well.


----------



## keokiracer

Just sunk. There will be nothing on top. See this video: For the road itself skip to 1:30





The sunken part starts around 3:15


----------



## Slagathor

snowdog said:


> Fair enough about the pollution, EU crap I guess...


Our politicians are always trying to deceive us by telling us things like that are "made in Brussels." They are lying, don't believe them. EU legislation only accounts for some 12,5% of total legislation in our country and the EU doesn't ask us to build tunnels like that. 

If you wanna know who's responsible for ridiculous projects like that, look no further than The Hague.


----------



## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> A minor extension of 1.5 kilometers of A4 opened to traffic today. This directly puts A4 traffic onto the N259.


Video: Starting just south of Chris' pic going northbound. Then turning just south of Steenbergen and taking the route southbound too. We then take the exit Tholen (N286):


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The province of Limburg wants to "improve traffic safety and traffic flow" on N277. How are they going to do that? By demolishing a grade-separated interchange and replace it with a roundabout.


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ I hope they're roundaboutizing (  ) only the non-grade-separated intersection below and to the right of the bridge...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, the entire overpass will be demolished!  It will be replaced by a 5-branch roundabout.

Another argument of them was that a grade-separated interchange doesn't belong in an 80 km/h road. Another argument to downgrade expressways from 100 to 80 km/h was that "it didn't fit into the network". Only in the Netherlands you'll find reasoning like that. :nuts:


----------



## bogdymol

^^ Let's see if I understand: NL wants to improve traffic safety on an intersection, so they are demolishing the existing grade-separated interchange and they are replacing it with a roundabout,* when all the other countries in the world make exactly the opposite when they want to improve safety?* I think I should get my pills... :shifty:


----------



## sotonsi

All the other countries in the world? The UK must be on the moon then...


----------



## Wilhem275

At least we're not the only morons who try to develop the road network by reducing capacity :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously, I consider demolishing a functonal building as a crime against both taxpayers and the environment.
The citizens should sue whoever decided this, and I'm not joking.

Does that overpass have any structural/age problems?

PS: I see there's even a bike path under that bridge... would it then have to cross the N-road?


----------



## italystf

bogdymol said:


> ^^ Let's see if I understand: NL wants to improve traffic safety on an intersection, so they are demolishing the existing grade-separated interchange and they are replacing it with a roundabout, when all the other countries in the world make exactly the opposite when they want to improve safety? I think I should get my pills... :shifty:


Grade-separate interchanges are always safer than at-grade intersections, included roundabouts. 
If they think that road is unsafe to 100 kph they could reduce the speed limit without demolishing the interchange.


----------



## italystf

Wilhem275 said:


> At least we're not the only morons who try to develop the road network by reducing capacity :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Seriously, I consider demolishing a functonal building as a crime against both taxpayers and the environment.
> The citizens should sue whoever decided this, and I'm not joking.
> 
> Does that overpass have any structural/age problems?
> 
> PS: I see there's even a bike path under that bridge... would it then have to cross the N-road?


Agree.
But what similar cases in Italy do you know?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The speed limit already is 80 km/h.


----------



## flierfy

ChrisZwolle said:


> No, the entire overpass will be demolished!  It will be replaced by a 5-branch roundabout.
> 
> Another argument of them was that a grade-separated interchange doesn't belong in an 80 km/h road. Another argument to downgrade expressways from 100 to 80 km/h was that "it didn't fit into the network". Only in the Netherlands you'll find reasoning like that. :nuts:


It is not that mad at all. The maintenance of the bridge cost a lot of money in the long run. Not to mention that a GSJ occupies more land than an at-grade junction. This can only be justified when this road serves as a trunk route in the overall road network and is therefore grade-separated for long stretches or an enhanced junction capacity is needed. As neither seems to be the case it makes perfectly sense to replace this GSJ with a roundabout.



bogdymol said:


> Let's see if I understand: NL wants to improve traffic safety on an intersection, so they are demolishing the existing grade-separated interchange and they are replacing it with a roundabout,* when all the other countries in the world make exactly the opposite when they want to improve safety?* I think I should get my pills... :shifty:


The grade-separated road might be safe. This GSJ, however, does also contain sub-junctions in the form of crossroads between the slip roads and the intersecting road. These crossroads are certainly less safe than the proposed roundabout. Therefore it is pretty likely that this proposal will improve the safety record of the overall junction.


----------



## italystf

flierfy said:


> It is not that mad at all. The maintenance of the bridge cost a lot of money in the long run. Not to mention that a GSJ occupies more land than an at-grade junction. This can only be justified when this road serves as a trunk route in the overall road network and is therefore grade-separated for long stretches or an enhanced junction capacity is needed. As neither seems to be the case it makes perfectly sense to replace this GSJ with a roundabout.


I think that, unless a bridge has severe structural problems, maintenance costs aren't that high, compared to its demolition and replacement costs.


----------



## bogdymol

flierfy said:


> The grade-separated road might be safe. This GSJ, however, does also contain sub-junctions in the form of crossroads between the slip roads and the intersecting road. These crossroads are certainly less safe than the proposed roundabout. Therefore it is pretty likely that this proposal will improve the safety record of the overall junction.


Why not build 2 smaller roundabouts on each side of the main road, without affecting the main traffic flow? It would be safer for everyone and traffic will flow a lot smoother on the main road...


----------



## Road_UK

sotonsi said:


> All the other countries in the world? The UK must be on the moon then...


How? More and more roundabouts on dual carriageways are being replaced by interchanges. A1 between Peterborough and Doncaster is a good example.


----------



## snowdog

The person who decided downgrading that situation is a good idea should be thrown in prison to rot.
Retard!


----------



## Road_UK

I'm glad you're not a judge.


----------



## flierfy

italystf said:


> I think that, unless a bridge has severe structural problems, maintenance costs aren't that high, compared to its demolition and replacement costs.


Demolition are one-time cost while maintenance burdens the budget each year. A bridge of that size costs easily €10'000/year. This adds up over the decades. And maintenance for a bridge that isn't needed is a waste of resources.



bogdymol said:


> Why not build 2 smaller roundabouts on each side of the main road, without affecting the main traffic flow? It would be safer for everyone and traffic will flow a lot smoother on the main road...


How do you know that the N 277 is the main flow of traffic? I wouldn't be surprised if the N 275 carries more traffic at this junction.
In either case one roundabout instead of a GSJ simplifies the whole affair enormously. To stick to an over-engineered junction just for the sake of it isn't worth the expenses that come along with it. Not in this case.


----------



## aswnl

Removing a freeflow situation and creating a roundabout means more braking and accelerating - thus creating more unnecessary pollution. If that pollution can be prevented by just a few thousand euro's a year, that's better for all.


----------



## bogdymol

flierfy said:


> How do you know that the N 277 is the main flow of traffic? I wouldn't be surprised if the N 275 carries more traffic at this junction.
> In either case one roundabout instead of a GSJ simplifies the whole affair enormously. To stick to an over-engineered junction just for the sake of it isn't worth the expenses that come along with it. Not in this case.


If there would be an empty field I wouldn't have argued over the interchange/roundabout dispute, but since* there is already a functional 2-level interchange*, why demolish it and build a roundabout?

About the money: I bet that it's cheaper to mantain the existing interchange in the next 30 years than downgrading it into a roundabout + roundabout mantainance.

PS: in Romania we build many new roads, but because of lack of funds we sometimes choose roundabout over interchange. If you don't need the interchange please send it to Romania


----------



## ChrisZwolle

flierfy said:


> A bridge of that size costs easily €10'000/year.


In other words, 8 diesel car drivers are enough to pay for this bridge.


----------



## Surel

It indeed seems to be ridiculous. How are they tendering for this "downgrade"? They need some traffic studies in order to come up with those free flow arguments, don't they? I would be interested in those who made them...


----------



## italystf

In Italy roundabouts were rarely used until the 90s, so we have many interchanges where they would build a roundabout today, but nobody ever think to demolish the old ones.
Now, in new roads with high AADT we often build roundabouts with flyovers, so drivers travelling on the main road don't have to enter the roundabout.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Traffic volumes "fork" into all three directions at this point. 

The bridge was prepared as a single carriageway for a motorway, having space for 2 lanes and a shoulder. It was constructed circa 1970.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A67 Eindhoven - Geldrop widening*

There has been an agreement about the improvement of traffic flow along the A67 motorway between Leenderheide interchange and Geldrop. Short-term measures involve the extension and doubling of merging lanes at the Leenderheide motorway interchange, and a full widening to 2x3 lanes will follow between 2020 and 2023.

The A67 is notorious for the high truck volumes. The A67 carries 73.000 vehicles per day, including 29% trucks (21.200 trucks per day).


----------



## keber

flierfy said:


> Demolition are one-time cost while maintenance burdens the budget each year. A bridge of that size costs easily €10'000/year. This adds up over the decades.


A project do demolish that bridge and reconstruct adjoining roads will cost several millions. That means several 100 years of bridge maintenance and also several 100 years of better safety and traffic flow.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*130 km/h*

The speed limits in the Netherlands starting September 1st, 2012.


----------



## flierfy

keber said:


> A project do demolish that bridge and reconstruct adjoining roads will cost several millions. That means several 100 years of bridge maintenance and also several 100 years of better safety and traffic flow.


This bridge is a relict of a proposal that has been given up. It is going to be removed one day as it doesn't serve a reasonable purpose anymore. The cost for its demolition will arise regardless when that will happen. So you can't weigh these expenses against the proposed junction rebuilding.

The rebuilding of this junction will barely cost a million euro. Half a million euro is more likely. That is adequate to just a couple of decades of maintenance not only for the bridge but for the slip roads of this extensive junction as well.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*80 km/h, A20 Rotterdam*

Some interesting research about the implementing of 80 km/h on the A20 in Rotterdam showed travel times on this section increased by 40% after the speed limit was lowered from 100 to 80 km/h. They did trials with raising it to 100 km/h again, and travel times decreased by 40% again. 

The speed limit will now be raised to 100 km/h outside rush hours and on the edges of rush hour to improve traffic flow.


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> Some interesting research about the implementing of 80 km/h on the A20 in Rotterdam showed travel times on this section increased by 40% after the speed limit was lowered from 100 to 80 km/h. They did trials with raising it to 100 km/h again, and travel times decreased by 40% again.
> 
> The speed limit will now be raised to 100 km/h outside rush hours and on the edges of rush hour to improve traffic flow.


Can I have your source, I'd love to prove some idiots wrong who are convinced 80km/h was better for traffic flow there!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Here you go:
http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/ministe...elheidsverhoging-noordbaan-a20-rotterdam.html


----------



## keber

flierfy said:


> It is going to be removed one day as it doesn't serve a reasonable purpose anymore.


Dividing traffic flows is not a reasonable purpose?:shifty:



> The rebuilding of this junction will barely cost a million euro. Half a million euro is more likely. That is adequate to just a couple of decades of maintenance not only for the bridge but for the slip roads of this extensive junction as well.


How much does it cost extra spent fuel because of slowed traffic flows and decreased traffic safety? I bet it costs much more than mainteance of the bridge, even some renewal after years of wear. And I'm still sure that this would cost several millions, not just one half. There is quite lot to do to convert this junction to a big roundabout.

I don't know about you, but being myself a civil engineer and having already quite some experience I could not trust to some ideas of local politicians (doesn't matter if in Netherlands or elsewhere) which are contrary even to simple logic.


----------



## sotonsteve

Road_UK said:


> How? More and more roundabouts on dual carriageways are being replaced by interchanges. A1 between Peterborough and Doncaster is a good example.


In the rest of the world, the A1 in Britain would be a motorway with restrictions on vehicles allowed to use the road and higher design standards. The A1 as it is now is probably comparable with a Dutch motorway in the 1950s.

Health and Safety would suggest that you cannot put a price on a person's life, so by replacing a grade separated junction with an at-grade roundabout junction you are effectively dealing out the death sentence, as at-grade junctions have poorer accident records due to more traffic directly conflicting with each other on the junction.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The main problem with Dutch roundabouts is that they almost always use the minimum design standard, even for roundabouts on provincial highways outside cities. These generally have a radius of 18 meters and have very tight corners, trucks can usually not drive more than 15 - 20 km/h on them and it takes them 600 - 800 meters to get back at 80 km/h again. I'm not against roundabouts per se, but the current trend is to replace every minor uncontrolled intersection with a roundabout, which is very annoying. 

For example Winterswijk - Zwolle is about 90 kilometers, but it takes almost 2 hours to drive it, despite you almost never enter any city limits. The main reason for the low average speed is the large amounts of roundabouts.


----------



## Wilhem275

flierfy said:


> How do you know that the N 277 is the main flow of traffic? I wouldn't be surprised if the N 275 carries more traffic at this junction.


Even if the flow on the bridge is not the main one, at least it does not create conflicts with the others. By removing the overpass the -even if minor- flow that today has no conflicts will then have some, adding up to the main ones.

I'm not a road expert: can anybody explain what a road concrete bridge's maintenance costs are? I can't figure them out


----------



## Road_UK

Not a couple of times, I'm there all the time, traveling between Calais and Amsterdam, Friesland, northern Germany or Scandinavia. Congestions I get in other places en route, but less likely on the A58.


----------



## Suburbanist

A58 is very busy between Tilburg and St. Annenbosch.

The slightest disruption will slow down traffic a lot, or cause jams.

Moreover, it is a route with a lot of truck traffic.

If I need to drive up north, I'll rather take my chances on N261+A59 outside peak times (because interchange Hooipolder sucks big time as well on peak).

Tilburg is actually surrounded by underdesign/undercapacity road links: A65 is incomplete towards 's-Hertogenbosch, N261 has 4 traffic lights 'till A59, and A65 is heavily trafficked.

Breda, 's-Hertobenbosch, Endinhoven and Bergen op Zoom, on the contrary, all have great roads surrounding them (u/c in the later case).


----------



## Road_UK

Godius said:


> :troll:


LOL


----------



## snowdog

Road_UK said:


> Why? I've hardly ever got stuck in traffic there, apart from minimum delays on the intersection onto the A16 towards Antwerp.


The traffic is appalling there anywhere between 8am-7pm, random jams very often.
The whole area is a chaos if an accident happens, I was stuck for 40 minutes there because they had to close 1 lane for an accident. And in the other direction there was at least a 10 km jam too iirc despite nothing happened there, along with the A27 nearby which became a chaos too.






There needs to be FAR more redundancy against incidents so more capacity, 80.000 vehicles per day is calling for an upgrade... Now if someone farts you have a traffic jam there.


----------



## keokiracer

snowdog said:


> The whole area is a chaos if an accident happens, I was stuck for 40 minutes there because they had to close 1 lane for an accident. And in the other direction there was at least a 10 km jam too iirc despite nothing happened there, along with the A27 nearby which became a chaos too.


Same thing near us. A truck broke down near Roosendaal, at interchange 'De Stok' a few days ago: 1 lane was closed, the traffic jam started at interchange 'Markiezaat': 18 km...
Ad today there was an accident just east of Bergen Op Zoom 1 lane was closed. The traffic jam started in Belgium: 20 km 
:|

PS: you have a dashcam?


----------



## snowdog

keokiracer said:


> Same thing near us. A truck broke down near Roosendaal, at interchange 'De Stok' a few days ago: 1 lane was closed, the traffic jam started at interchange 'Markiezaat': 18 km...
> Ad today there was an accident just east of Bergen Op Zoom 1 lane was closed. The traffic jam started in Belgium: 20 km
> :|
> 
> PS: you have a dashcam?


I occasionally record things with my telephone. Using Dailyroads Voyager as that one links video with GPS data . Samsung Galaxy s2...

That day I didn't have a car holder with me and just jammed my phone between the dashboard and windscreen, hence it falling over near the end :lol:.

I also have a mini ''keychain'' camera, them 6 euro ebay ones, I used to record with that occasionally but I want GPS data too hence using the phone.


----------



## Road_UK

Well duh, if lanes are blocked due to an accident, in the whole area you get irregularities anywhere. Tell me something else that is new, they might as well build a motorway in the jungle. Welcome to Concrete City...


----------



## keokiracer

Excuse me for finding it unacceptable that when 1 lane is losed it immediately causes 20 kms of traffic jam (not taking in account the traffic jam on the A4 from Steenbergen (3 kms) and the A58 from Vlissingen (4 km) and numerous local roads)

Of course it's logic that when there's a lane closed on a highway, a traffic jam formes. But it's the size of that traffic jam I'm talking about:

For example: today on the A2 near Breukelen there were animals on the road: there was 1 lane closed but only 3 kms of traffic jam. Resason? The widening to 2x5 lanes.


----------



## sotonsteve

snowdog said:


> The traffic is appalling there anywhere between 8am-7pm, random jams very often.
> The whole area is a chaos if an accident happens, I was stuck for 40 minutes there because they had to close 1 lane for an accident. And in the other direction there was at least a 10 km jam too iirc despite nothing happened there, along with the A27 nearby which became a chaos too.
> 
> There needs to be FAR more redundancy against incidents so more capacity, 80.000 vehicles per day is calling for an upgrade... Now if someone farts you have a traffic jam there.


Try the British M25. Without any accident, just volume of traffic, I have regularly heard delays of 2-3 hours on a Friday evening, with queues sometimes over 80km long. As I said, that's with no incidents. Normal evening traffic tends to be a traffic queue up to 30km long with a 30 minute to 1 hour delay. The alternative to these almost guaranteed queues are to drive through an urban area or to drive down the farm tracks we call our off-motorway road network.


----------



## Koesj

sotonsteve said:


> Try the British M25. Without any accident, just volume of traffic, I have regularly heard delays of 2-3 hours on a Friday evening, with queues sometimes over 80km long. As I said, that's with no incidents. Normal evening traffic tends to be a traffic queue up to 30km long with a 30 minute to 1 hour delay. The alternative to these almost guaranteed queues are to drive through an urban area or to drive down the farm tracks we call our off-motorway road network.


That's 'great' and all that but if you want super long queues and delays either pick one of the remaining non-upgraded motorways near our biggest cities or look back a couple of years where more than 10% of our _national_ network was congested twice every day (this still happens but a little less frequently after all the widenings).

The thing with a lot of 'rural' motorways in general and the A58 in particular is that even while they only connect mid-sized cities both residential and commercial densities are very high _and_ spread-out. That's how you get 2x2 unupgraded roads to clog up between what in UK terms might as well be Tyne- and Teesside.


----------



## henry1394

http://acidcow.com/pics/34301-traffic-in-the-netherlands-33-pics.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Utrecht - Veenendaal widening*

The third lane of A12 opened to traffic today, westbound from Driebergen to Bunnik. The third lane in the eastbound direction will open Sunday. This is part of the larger upgrade of the A12 motorway to a six-lane facility between Utrecht and Arnhem.


----------



## Suburbanist

*Around Rozenburg + Noordzeeweg*

I got some pictures of Rozenburg's ring road and a small, 10km long road over a







that take us the to the core of Rotterdam Port's shipping activity

Old-style road markings


















IT's a looong straight road









Here, the Maeslantkeringhuis (a huge storm flood barrier). It translates as Maas (river) gate house.









At the very end of the road, there is a vantage point from where we can have an excellent view of the port and the road itself









Stena Line ships, they are ferries carrying vehicles and passengers to Norwich, UK









Unexpected bonus: the Berge Stahl was just docked on the other side! She is the heaviest bulk ship cargo in the World.









Rozenburg ring road, south section. It doesn't get more neat than this.









N15 bridge. A15 goes through a tunnel.









Wind breaking wall. Those HUGE concrete plates are designed to reduce wind impact on a nearby terminal that receives vehicle-carrying vessels, which are apparently very sensitive to wind when loading or unloading (don't know why/how).


----------



## domtoren

*A2 near Utrecht*

Newest part of the Leidsche Rijn tunnel
(South>>> North, recently opened)










From the North side of Utrecht, looking southbound


----------



## Ewoutje

Suburbanist said:


> Wind breaking wall. Those HUGE concrete plates are designed to reduce wind impact on a nearby terminal that receives vehicle-carrying vessels, which are apparently very sensitive to wind when loading or unloading (don't know why/how).


The windbreakers are there to help ships navigate through the Callandbrug (road/railbridge).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The busiest motorway in the tallest city.









photo by Joop van Houdt


----------



## Godius

That's really a spectacular view to be honest. ^^


----------



## Batavier

I love the view when driving on that bridge from the south to the north, looking at the Rotterdam skyline. It might be one of the best places on the Rotterdam Ring road to look at it.


----------



## Road_UK

I do to. The only thing I don't like, is every time I'm near that bridge, they open that damn thing. As if they are waiting for me...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Really? It only opens once or twice a day on average. About 500 openings per year. 140.000 ships pass under it annually.


----------



## Road_UK

That is the intersection slip coming from the A4, isn't it?


----------



## keokiracer

No, that's near interchange Vaanplein (A29) on the south side of the road.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Parking fees increased by 15% in the past 4 years in the 30 largest municipalities. Amsterdam has the highest hourly fee of € 5, but saw the smallest increase of 4%. Parking fees went up 20% in Zwolle, 36% in Hengelo but went down 10% in Rotterdam. Some parties want to introduce a "paying by the minute" system. In most areas people have to pay by the hour, or 30 or 20 minutes, which means that if you park 31 minutes, you pay for 60 minutes. 


Some other news; the southbound section control along A2 between Amsterdam and Utrecht will commence July 23rd. The speed limit on this 10-lane motorway is 100 km/h. Speeds will be measured along a 15.4 kilometer section between Holendrecht and Maarssen, in three separate sections (between exits). Northbound section control will commence later this year.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A76/A79 Kunderberg Motorway Interchange*

The reconstruction of the Kunderberg Motorway Interchange in Limburg province commenced yesterday. Two new connector roads will be constructed to allow traffic from Geleen to drive towards Maastricht and vice versa. This will relieve N281 and increase traffic on the relatively low-trafficked A76 motorway. It will also make the road network more robust in case of lane or road closures. Works should be completed in late 2013.

The Kunderberg interchange is currently one of the most incomplete interchanges in the Netherlands, apart from through traffic, only Maastricht < > Aachen traffic is currently possible.

New design.









Current interchange:


----------



## flierfy

Knooppunkt Kunderberg isn't incomplete. It serve precisely the purpose which is needed.


----------



## Suburbanist

*Heerenduiweg (IJmuiden)*

This is the road that lead to the beach in IJmuiden.

It has a ridiculously low 50km/h (there are separate bicycle tracks and pedestrians footpaths, so that is not an issue; there are no adjacent buildings) limit.

It was empty the day I went there due to bad weather.


----------



## Suburbanist

*IJmuidensluizen*

The gates at IJmuiden are an essential part of flood control in Netherlands. They prevent high water from the North Sea flooding Amsterdam, while allowing ship traffic to the Port of Amsterdam.

There are a set of narrow crossings, used in pairs when the gates are closed. When there is ship traffic, only one of each movable bridge is opened per gate.

An interesting feature: contrary to most movable bridges in Netherlands. half of the bridges on IJmuiden are not opened by lifting them or turning them up in the air, but by pulling them (as they are attached to the gates) on the side on the gates' enclosures









The channel was opened to navigation









I had stopped to take pics, only to find myself blocked in a red light for 20 minutes while they opened the channel (shown above)


----------



## xlchris

Suburbanist said:


> This is the road that lead to the beach in IJmuiden.
> 
> It has a ridiculously low 50km/h (there are separate bicycle tracks and pedestrians footpaths, so that is not an issue; there are no adjacent buildings) limit.
> 
> It was empty the day I went there due to bad weather.


Quite a funny thing, I used this road yesterday! 

From the fact that it was quiet, I got to use the road while it was closed (due to an event nearby, but since I had to work over there I got to pass). You could easily drive 100 (besides from the 1 speedbump). Indeed ridiculously low.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Leidsche Rijn Tunnel*

The A2 Leidsche Rijn Tunnel malfunctioned this morning. The tunnel authorities could not control the traffic management system (matrix signs), after which the southbound main tube was closed for all traffic. This resulted in a waiting line of 15 kilometers. While malfunctions like these happen from time to time in Dutch tunnels due to electrical problems of overly complex systems, everyone feared this tunnel the most because it carries most traffic; nearly 200.000 vehicles per day. During normal rush hours traffic is free-flowing on this location.


----------



## Bogdy

ChrisZwolle said:


> .
> 
> The Kunderberg interchange is currently one of the most incomplete interchanges in the Netherlands, apart from through traffic, only Maastricht < > Aachen traffic is currently possible.


and why it wasn't construct from the beginning to allow traffic from Aachen to Heerlen? I know there is a previous interchange at boundary with Germany which allow this, but this also dont't allow traffic from N281, Heerlen direction, to A76. Is there a relation between this 2 interchange? and why now is necessary this change? I'm a bit confused


----------



## Road_UK

Traffic from Aachen to Heerlen has always been possible.1st exit after the border leads you to a dual carriageway parallel to the motorway with exits to various parts of Heerlen.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That used to be a "knooppunt" status interchange; Bocholtz. It was reconfigured to make way for the Avantis business park exit. The business park was a major flop, only a few companies relocated to there. Some office buildings were empty for years and maybe still are.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N62 Sluiskil Tunnel*

Construction of the Sluiskil Tunnel near Terneuzen. It will be a bored tunnel, rather uncommon in the Netherlands.



















Photos by Joop van Houdt


----------



## Road_UK

2nd link with the mainland? Will that be tolled as well?


----------



## keokiracer

No 2nd link. It's in the N62 and will be a tunnel underneath this canal towards the harborindustry of Gent. This tunnel will not be tolled.


----------



## mappero

^^ So Dutch are boring tunnel because Belgian use canal frequently? BTW, why this part of land it's not Belgian? Will be easy and cheaper to manage transport there...


----------



## Road_UK

Because its Dutch, and we have our heritage.


----------



## keokiracer

mappero said:


> ^^ So Dutch are boring tunnel because Belgian use canal frequently?


Kind of yes, of course we are building it because inhabitants of Zeeuws-Vlaanderen have to wait a lot for those ships. (I read that the bridge is open 1/3 of the time (20 mins. per hour))

The whole area is being chaged by the way, there will be 2 new 'interchanges' and the road wil be widened to 2x2 lanes








^^ Sadly the best quality pic I could find 
Smaller pic, but it's a lot clearer than the one above


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Terneuzen sea locks will also be replaced to accommodate larger ships. The costs of that is over € 1 billion, about 90% paid by Flanders because they need it. That means any bridge crossing will be opened to shipping even more.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> ...It will be a bored tunnel, rather uncommon in the Netherlands....


I would hope being bored would be uncommon in the exciting Netherlands*

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

*Weird linguistic thing: "exciting Holland" seemed more natural than "the exciting Netherlands," perhaps because of that "the"; I forced myself to write "the exciting Netherlands" because of, you know, recent discussions.


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ I don't think N57 problems are the dams, but the "dry land" sectors that have roundabouts and not modernized roadway such as Serooskerke - Neeltje Jans access ramp; and around Ostdorp. 

A full-length Middelburg - Rozenburg grade-separeted link, even if 1+1, would be extremely welcomed.


----------



## Slagathor

^^ I'll go along with that. The roundabouts are very disturbing. But I fear the dams will always be 1+1, there just isn't any room for an autosnelweg there.


----------



## Suburbanist

Slagathor said:


> ^^ I'll go along with that. The roundabouts are very disturbing. But I fear the dams will always be 1+1, there just isn't any room for an autosnelweg there.


But the dams are not all 1+1:

- Haringvilet, 2 x 2 with highway standrads 

- Brouwersdam, 1 x 1 with highway standards + very wide ROW already prepared for a second carriageway (it's just a matter or paving over, actually ,even sub-base and drainage are already meant for a 2+2 highway)

- Phijlerdam and Oosterschelderdam, 1 x 1 with highway standards _and a full roadway alreayd paved, but used as some freaking wide cycle lane over the dam instead of its original purpose (highway lanes) as designed in the Deltawerken plans!!! It is just a matter or reclaiming that unused lane for cars and building, on the cheap, an auxiliary typical cycle lane attached to the bridge deck, line they do in some highway bridges as here ._


----------



## keokiracer

Suburbanist said:


> - Haringvilet, 2 x 2 with highway standrads


No, highway standards require a (hard) shoulder


----------



## Suburbanist

*A2 motorway could have a top speed of 170 kph without problems*

English version of some interesting Dutch news article



> The A2 motorway, at the centre of a campaign to have the speed limit increased from 100 kph to 130 kph, could take cars going much faster without breaking noise nuisance norms, according to research for Trouw.
> 
> Civil engineering group HaskoningDHV says the speed on the motorway from Amsterdam to Utrecht could be put up to 170 kph without causing problems because far fewer cars are using it than expected.
> 
> The motorway, which is five lanes wide in each direction in places, currently has a speed limit of 100 kph and the police are carrying out average speed checks on all drivers to make sure they keep to the law.
> 
> *Fewer cars*
> 
> According to HaskoningDHV, the road was developed to carry 230,000 cars a day by 2020. But only 136,000 vehicles are using it at the moment, meaning maximum noise levels are not being reached.
> 
> Transport minister Melanie Schultz van Haegen said last week she would introduce legislation to parliament approving a 130 kph speed limit, much to the fury of local councils. They say she is breaking commitments made when the motorway was widened and that the move is a cynical election ploy.


----------



## Slagathor

Suburbanist said:


> But the dams are not all 1+1:
> 
> - Haringvilet, 2 x 2 with highway standrads
> 
> - Brouwersdam, 1 x 1 with highway standards + very wide ROW already prepared for a second carriageway (it's just a matter or paving over, actually ,even sub-base and drainage are already meant for a 2+2 highway)
> 
> - Phijlerdam and Oosterschelderdam, 1 x 1 with highway standards _and a full roadway alreayd paved, but used as some freaking wide cycle lane over the dam instead of its original purpose (highway lanes) as designed in the Deltawerken plans!!! It is just a matter or reclaiming that unused lane for cars and building, on the cheap, an auxiliary typical cycle lane attached to the bridge deck, line they do in some highway bridges as here ._


_

There's no room for hard shoulders and the lanes are quite narrow. I suppose you could realistically shoot for some expressway standard, squeezing in a 2+2 with some relatively minor modifications, but it's probably still going to be expensive.

There would also have to be extra regulations about heavy traffic. It would be a very tempting route for seaport traffic (trucks) between Rotterdam and Gent/Zeebrugge, but large amounts of heavy traffic would damage crucial sea defenses that were never built to cope with anything like that. Realistically, the N57 expressway would have to be a toll road with heavy tolls on trucks to discourage them. 

As for the bicycle lane on the Oosterscheldekering: I don't understand that one. I've cycled across it a few times and the winds are just incredible, even on sunny days. It's murder. And it's so wide as well, like it's a bicycle expressway for heavy traffic, but there's never anyone there. What the fvck? _


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Utrecht - Veenendaal widening*

The last meter of the A12 widening was paved this week with porous asphalt. Testing of the dynamic lane opening follows in the next few weeks, after which the grand opening is about mid-August.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N659 Oester Dam*

The Oesterdam, literally "Oyster Dam" protects the city of Bergen op Zoom from flooding. The dam was constructed after it became clear that the Oosterschelde estuary would not be permanently dammed. East of the dam is the Schelde-Rijn Canal, a major shipping canal for the port of Antwerpen to the hinterland.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Eindhoven*

Two nice aerials of a "braid", a grade-separated weaving facility. 15 lanes wide.


----------



## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Oesterdam, literally "Oyster Dam" protects the city of Bergen op Zoom from flooding. The dam was constructed after it became clear that the Oosterschelde estuary would not be permanently dammed. East of the dam is the Schelde-Rijn Canal, a major shipping canal for the port of Antwerpen to the hinterland.


Please note that in this case the Schelde-Rijnkanaal in on the left of the N659

From left to right on this pic it's Markiezaatsmeer (recreational) - small dam - Schelde-Rijn Canal - N659 - Oosterschelde


----------



## Road_UK

And now ask any non-Dutch member to say these names out loud...


----------



## Wilhem275

I tried. But luckily there's no one around listening :lol:



ChrisZwolle said:


> Two nice aerials of a "braid", a grade-separated weaving facility. 15 lanes wide.


I love these things. Where's the place?


----------



## Penn's Woods

Road_UK said:


> And now ask any non-Dutch member to say these names out loud...


Non-Dutch, non-Belgian, non-South African, you mean. And there are quirky people like me who (a) like language and (b) decided to learn Dutch, just for fun, after finding myself unexpectedly in Ostend* and discovering that between speaking English and having studied German I understood a lot.

*Oostende, for Suburbanist


----------



## keokiracer

Wilhem275 said:


> I love these things. Where's the place?


Check the *bold* text above Chris' post 

@Road_UK :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A container ship became stuck underneath an A59 motorway bridge. It was traveling across the Wilhelmina Canal, but apparently did not have enough ballast to secure a decent clearance. The empty containers however, saved the captain and the bridge (of the ship) from being destroyed.


----------



## Slagathor

What a moron. His stupid little cabin is even higher than the shipping containers. Was he reading a book instead of looking out the window?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Apparently the bridge (of the ship) can be moved up and down. Which either means his bridge was lifted or not. If it was not, he couldn't see over the containers. If it was up, he would've been dead if the containers did fit below the bridge


----------



## Surel

I wonder, do the shippers use some autopilot in the canals? Like cameras+gps+ship ahead alarm system.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*oldtimers / air quality*

A new report by the environmental planning bureau in the Netherlands shows that oldtimers add significantly to pollution in cities. While cars older than 25 years represent only 1% of the light motorized traffic, they account for 10% of PM10 and 20% of NOx emissions of road traffic. The particle emissions of diesel oldtimers is 80 times higher than that of modern diesel cars. Oldtimers on LPG and petrol even emit 40 - 100 times more NOx than modern petrol cars. 

The import of oldtimers older than 1988 has increased in recent years, and it has been suggest many of those are not for oldtimer fans, but for everyday use. 

Some parties have called for an oldtimer-ban in urban areas, larger than current "environmental zones" for trucks.


----------



## Wilhem275

keokiracer said:


> Check the *bold* text above Chris' post












Thanks 



Penn's Woods said:


> And there are quirky people like me who (a) like language and (b) decided to learn Dutch, just for fun, after ... discovering that between speaking English and having studied German I understood a lot.


Well, that's quite the same for me, but I still need to reach an adequate level with German before dedicating to other languages.
Being an Italian speker it's weird, but I find myself quite comfortable with the structure of Germanic languages.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Schiphol Tunnel*

The Schiphol Tunnel is closed for the second time in two days because of an electrical failure. The power supply failed, which means the tunnel lighting, cameras and motorway traffic management does not work. The tunnel is closed in both directions, causing major traffic disruption southwest of Amsterdam, despite the low traffic volumes due to vacations. With 18 lanes, the Schiphol Tunnel is the widest in Europe.


----------



## Nexis

Wow that is a lot of waiting , how many times a day do these bridges open?


----------



## keokiracer

You think that waiting time is long? :lol:


----------



## woutero

This bridge is over the Canal through Walcheren, which is used for freight ships and recreational ships, so how often it opens depends on the season. It is normally opened every hour at x.40h during the day, and again at x.10h in case 5 or more yachts are waiting, except in certain 'block hours' where road traffic is prioritized.


----------



## snowdog

I have more of a problem with major motorways being opened. Like the A6, A16, etc...

You should see the queues when they open the Van Brienenoord, 6 lanes of traffic jammed from both sides.

If it was up to me, motorways would never open for recreational shipping anywhere between 6am to 1am... Only 1-5am...


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ the Nieuwe Maas is the busiest internal shipping canal/waterway in Europe and has a lot of commercial traffic. A16 opens only at night anyway, I think.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Utrecht - Veenendaal widening*

*Mission Accomplished*

The A12 widening was completed today, August 3rd, 2012. They have widened 30 kilometers of motorway between the Lunetten Motorway Interchange at Utrecht and the city of Veenendaal. Most of the widening involved constructing "plus lanes" in the median which will be opened dynamically. The original A12 was constructed on a narrow 1940's alignment, and was basically completely rebuilt in under 2 years. The project was finished 2 years ahead of schedule. 

The westernmost part of the project was widened to 2x4 lanes, then 2x3 lanes and the rest 2x2 + plus lanes in the median (basically also 2x3 lanes). 

These plus lanes are now the longest in the Netherlands, stretching for 29 kilometers from Driebergen to Ede. The easternmost part between Veenendaal and Ede was already completed in 2009.

The A12 is expected to carry over 100.000 vehicles per day on these sections. 

map of the widened section:


----------



## Slagathor

Nexis said:


> Wow that is a lot of waiting , how many times a day do these bridges open?


That's in my hometown. They limit the opening times like woutero said. They also synchronize them with the nearby train station so you won't miss your train because you just had to wait for a bridge.

I'm OK with bridges opening for freight traffic. But in summer (the region is a popular tourist destination), the bridge opens for much longer as dozens of tourist yachts have to pass through and that, I can tell you, is extremely annoying.

Sometimes the (mostly German) tourists on the yachts wave at the people waiting for the bridge. That never goes well, they start booing and hissing. Sometimes they throw food. 

Also, it should be noted that the bridge from the video is in Middelburg and there's another bridge just 200 meters next to it. They _never_ open at the same time so emergency services can always reach the other side of the channel.


----------



## g.spinoza

ChrisZwolle said:


> *Mission Accomplished*
> 
> The A12 widening was completed today, August 3rd, 2012. They have widened 30 kilometers of motorway between the Lunetten Motorway Interchange at Utrecht and the city of Veenendaal. Most of the widening involved constructing "plus lanes" in the median which will be opened dynamically. The original A12 was constructed on a narrow 1940's alignment, and was basically completely rebuilt in under 2 years. The project was finished 2 years ahead of schedule.
> 
> The westernmost part of the project was widened to 2x4 lanes, then 2x3 lanes and the rest 2x2 + plus lanes in the median (basically also 2x3 lanes).
> 
> These plus lanes are now the longest in the Netherlands, stretching for 29 kilometers from Driebergen to Ede. The easternmost part between Veenendaal and Ede was already completed in 2009.
> 
> The A12 is expected to carry over 100.000 vehicles per day on these sections.
> 
> map of the widened section:


I don't understand dynamic "plus lanes" in the median. Wasn't cheaper and simpler to just open them? I mean, AFAIU they are not dynamic shoulders, which can be opened at certain times but with the downside of occupying the emergency lanes. What's the downside of opening those "plus lanes" so that they cannot be permanently open?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Back in the mid-2000's, when this project was decided, plus lanes were viewed as a way to circumvent difficult procedures by only opening the lanes at peak times. However, since about 2008, this is not a problem anymore, but they haven't changed the scope of the project in fear that it might be delayed, so it was constructed as "plus lanes" after all, even though the widening was basically a complete rebuild of the motorway, everything about it; pavement - embankment - bridges - viaducts, etc, are brand new. They managed to do that in just over 1.5 years; late 2010 to augustus 2012.

I suspect these plus lanes will be open to traffic the bulk of the day.


----------



## Road_UK

*Overijssel*

Yesterday I returned to Mayrhofen from Holland. I went to Sneek last Wednesday, and got back here early this morning.

Yesterday from Sneek I had to go to Enschede, and the quickest way is to go down A7, A32 and A28, exit at J22 and go cross country over N-roads. Perfectly straight roads, 100 km/h limit, but with a green divider line, prohibiting overtaking on pretty much all the N-roads in the province of Overijssel. From Enschede I took the N35 into Germany (to get on the German A31 and carry on down the A3 towards Austria) and still the same green divider line, until you cross the border, and the road turns normal. Why is that?

Also, I don't like the new motorway signs. Especially the exit signs look messy, with the exit number placed on top of the destinations...
The Netherlands are trying to copy the German system, but it is just not working.


----------



## mappero

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Schiphol Tunnel is closed for the second time in two days because of an electrical failure. The power supply failed, which means the tunnel lighting, cameras and motorway traffic management does not work. The tunnel is closed in both directions, causing major traffic disruption southwest of Amsterdam, despite the low traffic volumes due to vacations. With 18 lanes, the Schiphol Tunnel is the widest in Europe.


Yeahh, it's sad what happened...
but in other countries the tunnel owner let drivers still use the tunnel with lower speed limit. Modern cars are equipped with lights so the only issue is there not working cameras... :nuts:


----------



## Pannyers

Slagathor said:


> Also, it should be noted that the bridge from the video is in Middelburg and there's another bridge just 200 meters next to it. They _never_ open at the same time so emergency services can always reach the other side of the channel.


You can't use that bridge anymore, since this summer. But you can use the new aquaduct (N57).









_Stationsbrug._


----------



## Slagathor

^^ Did they finally make that bridge for pedestrians and bicycles only? So many accidents have happened there over the years, I couldn't count them. I'm not a fan of banning cars, but frankly it was necessary on that bridge.


----------



## keokiracer

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ the Nieuwe Maas is the busiest internal shipping canal/waterway in Europe and has a lot of commercial traffic. A16 opens only at night anyway, I think.


I remember reading it was twice a day, once in the afternoon and once at night. The afternoon one is, I guess, around noon or so.


----------



## keokiracer

Road_UK said:


> Perfectly straight roads, 100 km/h limit, but with a green divider line, prohibiting overtaking on pretty much all the N-roads in the province of Overijssel. From Enschede I took the N35 into Germany (to get on the German A31 and carry on down the A3 towards Austria) and still the same green divider line, until you cross the border, and the road turns normal. Why is that?


Because they think no overtaking = less head on collisions = safer roads.

What they forget is that a lot of head-on collisions don't occur during an overtake, but mostly because someone who ended up in the roadside oversteers to the left, hitting oncoming traffic. 

So in short: practically no use (especially since most new overtaking bans are on straight stretches of road), and annoying as hell.


----------



## Suburbanist

Overtaking on the opposite sense of direction is an inherently dangerous move, I shall agree. But, if they are to forbid it, they should bring more short sectors for passing.

The overtaking issue is more serious on very straight and flat roads, indeed, as your mind plays tricks with the lack of visual references to provide depth. Especially at night. On top of that, because roads are flat the speed differential between overtaker and overtaken is slow, minimal sometimes and that makes the whole thing even more dangerous - unless you approved 20km/h excess speed for overtaking up to 2 vehicles as in Spain.


----------



## Road_UK

Is Overijssel the only province that has a large scale overtaking ban?


----------



## g.spinoza

Do Dutch generally respect overtaking ban with continuous line? In Italy we generally don't


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Road_UK said:


> Is Overijssel the only province that has a large scale overtaking ban?


Most provinces have it, only in Flevoland / Friesland / Drenthe / Groningen they are less excessive with passing bans. 



g.spinoza said:


> Do Dutch generally respect overtaking ban with continuous line? In Italy we generally don't


It's generally respected (mainly because increasingly few people _know_ how to pass), but I see people crossing the lines from time to time.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Utrecht - Veenendaal widening*

Here's a video of the road widening that was completed today :cheers:

The battery died prematurely, so I could only record from Utrecht to Maarn. I filmed the whole section on the return trip when I got the camera on the charger. However, this eastbound section is interesting because of the way how the lanes are reduced. It goes from 4 regular lanes, to 3 lanes + plus lane, to 2 lanes + plus lane.


----------



## Road_UK

ChrisZwolle said:


> Most provinces have it, only in Flevoland / Friesland / Drenthe / Groningen they are less excessive with passing bans.
> 
> It's generally respected (mainly because increasingly few people know how to pass), but I see people crossing the lines from time to time.


At least people will go up to the maximum speed and do 100, unlike in Austria where people intend to do 70 or 80 on 100 roads. Especially German tourists are bastards for that. Of course even in Holland you get stuck behind a slow moving lorry.


----------



## keokiracer

Road_UK said:


> At least people will go up to the maximum speed and do 100,


Are you sure you were in The Netherlands?


----------



## Pannyers

Slagathor said:


> ^^ Did they finally make that bridge for pedestrians and bicycles only? So many accidents have happened there over the years, I couldn't count them. I'm not a fan of banning cars, but frankly it was necessary on that bridge.


Yes, finally...


----------



## Road_UK

keokiracer said:


> Are you sure you were in The Netherlands?


Well they did yesterday.


----------



## Slagathor

They saw you coming.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Utrecht - Veenendaal widening*

Some photos from the only viaduct across the widened A12


A12 Laagerfseweg-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A12 Laagerfseweg-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A12 Laagerfseweg-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A12 Laagerfseweg-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A12 Laagerfseweg-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A12 Laagerfseweg-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A12 Laagerfseweg-7 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A12 Laagerfseweg-8 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A12 Laagerfseweg-9 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A12 Laagerfseweg-10 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Wilhem275

I see so many drivers willing to use that third lane...


----------



## Surel

Well, they could've combined closing the third lane with truck overtaking ban...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's why I don't like these "plus lanes". Even though overall volumes are not high enough to justify 3 lanes, you're always stuck behind some slowpoke at some point. The empty lane next to you is very inviting at those times.


----------



## kmieciu

How wide is this lane ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Approximately 3 meters. The whole carriageway (shoulder + lane + lane + plus lane) is 13.40 meters wide.


----------



## kubam4a1

Chris, do you have to submit enviromental reports when plus lanes are constructed (thus requiring new sound barriers, ecoducts)?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, they do have to complete a full EIA. When these "plus lanes" were envisioned in the 1990s it was said to be faster with less chances for appeals. However, nowadays it doesn't matter whether you construct plus lanes or regular lanes. 

I really hope they will change these plus lanes into permanent 120 km/h third lanes, the reason of which you will see in my next video.


----------



## bogdymol

If you look closely you can see that that lane can be widened from 3,00 m to 3,50 m very easely. There is enough space in the middle. They just have to move the crash barriers inside a little bit and you get a fully functional 3+3 motorway.

I don't like this plus lane ideea when you can do a proper lane instead.


----------



## Road_UK

I don't like the way the Dutch are building their lanes full stop. The entire newly refurbished A2 has nothing but lanes turning into exit slip roads or merging lanes turning into proper through lanes. When you drive their at night you do nothing then changing lanes without overtaking. I like the lanes on my motorways to be used for overtaking only, with normal entry and exit slip roads.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ChrisZwolle said:


> I really hope they will change these plus lanes into permanent 120 km/h third lanes, the reason of which you will see in my next video.


----------



## zsmg

What are the advantages of the plus lane over a permanent extra third lane? Lower maintenance cost?


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## ChrisZwolle

They used to be faster procedures. Now it does not have any advantage.

Some plus lanes are very narrow though, for instance the plus lanes in Zwolle could have only be constructed as regular lanes at a substantially higher cost, but that is not the case of A12.


----------



## Slagathor

Road_UK said:


> I don't like the way the Dutch are building their lanes full stop. The entire newly refurbished A2 has nothing but lanes turning into exit slip roads or merging lanes turning into proper through lanes. When you drive their at night you do nothing then changing lanes without overtaking. I like the lanes on my motorways to be used for overtaking only, with normal entry and exit slip roads.


Aye, it's annoying. "In theory, this motorway goes all the way to Utrecht, but not if you stay in this lane." What? 

Stupid.


----------



## metasmurf

ChrisZwolle said:


> A12 Ede - Utrecht: widened 2x3


Why isn't the third lane open all the time? :dunno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*traffic volumes*

The 2011 traffic counts are now in.

These are the 7 busiest road segments in the Netherlands (annual average workday traffic).


int 2011 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## snowdog

Road_UK said:


> I don't like the way the Dutch are building their lanes full stop. The entire newly refurbished A2 has nothing but lanes turning into exit slip roads or merging lanes turning into proper through lanes. When you drive their at night you do nothing then changing lanes without overtaking. I like the lanes on my motorways to be used for overtaking only, with normal entry and exit slip roads.


I never understood what the problem is, changing lanes is erm ? Normal...
Keeps people active rather than packs of sheep who do nothing but stare at the one in front... You're supposed to check your mirrors every minute or even every 30 seconds anyway...

The roads are built the way they are to handle the specific traffic flows I guess.



ChrisZwolle said:


> The 2011 traffic counts are now in.
> 
> These are the 7 busiest road segments in the Netherlands (annual average workday traffic).


Wow, Brienenoord lost its first place, and wow at the traffic on the A10...


----------



## keokiracer

^^ Officially every 7 seconds. :yes:


----------



## Des

Slagathor said:


> Aye, it's annoying. "In theory, this motorway goes all the way to Utrecht, but not if you stay in this lane." What?
> 
> Stupid.


I always drive in the left lane so never have that problem


----------



## Jeroen669

keokiracer said:


> ^^ Officially every 7 seconds. :yes:


There is no 'official' rule for that. You just need to check regularly. In busy city-traffic every 7 seconds might be too few, driving during night on a empty motorway it could even be quite much.


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## keokiracer

^^ My driving instructor told me a month ago that you have to check mirrors every 7 sec. Of course it's not a hard number, but it was just to show that it's definitely more than 30 sec


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You forget all about that once you gain driving experience. Experience is much more important than those few hours of driving lessons. A week ago I drove more hours in 5 days than during all my driving lessons combined.


----------



## Road_UK

keokiracer said:


> ^^ My driving instructor told me a month ago that you have to check mirrors every 7 sec. Of course it's not a hard number, but it was just to show that it's definitely more than 30 sec


Do you drive a 1981 DeLorean?


----------



## keokiracer

^^ yes... If you say so... 


I actually drive in the red car on this pic:


----------



## italystf

Des said:


> I always drive in the left lane so never have that problem


I hope you live in a country that drives on the left.


----------



## Slagathor

Which mirrors do you guys use more? I really rely on the rear view mirror to keep track of what's going on behind me most of the time. I really only use the side mirrors right before/during a maneuver that requires it (switching lanes, taking a turn).


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ On highway driving, I use the side mirrors much more often then the rear mirror.


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## ChrisZwolle

I almost never use the rear view mirror, only the side mirrors. That comes from driving a loaded van for work all the time.


----------



## mappero

I use all on mirrors if they are existing in the vehicle and sometimes even rear camera which display on my cockpit 
Problem is, drivers generally don't look into mirrors... and then they are very surprised when something rapidly is happening around them.


----------



## Road_UK

The Dutch do have a habit of throwing their vehicles on the outside lane without looking. Very annoying. I use side mirrors only.


----------



## mappero

^^ I agreeee!! That's why after so many years of frequent driving in NL I am not surprised when car with NL sticker (Nur Links - like Germans say ) without any attestation is moving to left lane! Try to do it in Germany or France, Poland... In Poland is even forbidden by law...


----------



## woutero

My experience is actually the opposite. When I drive in Germany, especially on two lane freeways, after taking over a truck, I move back to the right lane to better use the road capacity. But by the time I arrive at the next truck, the left lane is full of Germans, who don't let any space to allow me to pass the truck. So the choice is to either reduce speed to the truck speed, or just move to the left, even if there is not a lot of space. After doing the first thing a couple of times, I am kind of done with that.

If some of these Germans would actually leave some space for cars to pass trucks, it wouldn't be such an issue.


----------



## Road_UK

And there is the Dutch problem: 'they don't leave me any space.' You do not have the right of way if you want to move to an overtaking lane, and nobody is under any obligation to leave you any space. You have to wait until there is enough room to move over, and especially in Germany you need to think well in advance before you consider manouvring lanes. You have to use your instinct and your brains, instead of moaning that nobody lets you in. Do it correctly, and you don't even have to slow down that much.


----------



## Slagathor

^^ What bothers me is that people here tend to come onto a faster lane with the incorrect speed (too slow). They don't seem to understand you should gather speed *before* you come onto a fast lane.


----------



## Suburbanist

Slagathor said:


> ^^ What bothers me is that people here tend to come onto a faster lane with the incorrect speed (too slow). They don't seem to understand you should gather speed *before* you come onto a fast lane.


Agreed, but that is not always easy when the right lane is too slow with trucks, campers or else. 

In Germany this problem is worse. On 2x2 highways, sometimes I deliberately decelerate as to gain some space to the vehicle in front so that I can gain speed then move to the left lane. Especially when ars 150 km/h+ are driving on the left lane and I'm stuck at 80-90 km/h on the right lane.


----------



## snowdog

Rear view mirror most of the time, left side mirror only really when moving left, sometimes when I drive slow my right side mirror (when merging and not on the right). Usually drive at a speed that the right mirror is obsolete really though . I do check my mirror every 30 seconds at least though, albeit for the wrong reasons I guess than I learned on my lessons ( mostly as I am paranoid for unmarked coppers, and to see if there is the odd car that wants to go faster than me). 

And yeah, Dutch idiots have no idea about the right of way and that you have to yield for all when changing a lane.


> the left lane is full of Germans, who don't let any space to allow me to pass the truck.


I never have that problem, probably because I move at the same or faster speed as those Germans .


> In Poland is even forbidden by law...


It is here too but cops often find it more important to cash on ''fast'' drivers than Nur Links drivers...

In Poland you have something FAR more annoying, trucks overtaking each other for 2 minutes or longer at 81km/h. I have regularly seen fed up people overtake them on the hard shoulder due to the stupid slow truck overtaking.


----------



## mappero

Road_UK said:


> And there is the Dutch problem: 'they don't leave me any space.' You do not have the right of way if you want to move to an overtaking lane, and nobody is under any obligation to leave you any space. You have to wait until there is enough room to move over, and especially in Germany you need to think well in advance before you consider manouvring lanes. You have to use your instinct and your brains, instead of moaning that nobody lets you in. Do it correctly, and you don't even have to slow down that much.


Exactly!! Indeed!! And this what is in Polish Driving Law: *You do not have the right of way if you want to move to an overtaking lane, and nobody is under any obligation to leave you any space. You have to wait until there is enough room to move over and then start overtaking! *


----------



## woutero

^^So I guess the solution is just staying in the left lane.

I am not talking about rights. We all have the right to be stuck in traffic. I am talking about how to use the road efficiently.

I am not someone who drives slowly. But when I can move to the right, I do (which is also a law). But when I am going 140km/h and a truck is going 80km/h and I want to pass the truck and get into the left lane full of people going 130 - 150km/h, it is a lot more efficient if they give me some space. 

If we can't expect that of other road users, everyone is just always going to stay in the left lane, which is what happens in Germany, and it results in everybody going slower than they want to and than is necessary.

I guess in NL we are more used to using the roads as efficiently as possible together, and not so focussed on 'I need to go faster'.


----------



## Road_UK

You have no idea on how to drive on a motorway, but your way of thinking is very Dutch indeed. Forcing people to brake heavily to let you in creates chain reactions. The more people start showing their brake lights, and the quicker the congestion that follows. Everybody has to slow down at some point, and I force people to slow down as well . But I won't jump in front of someone who is doing 200 when I am doing 130. I'll calculate and adapt my speed to avoid slowing down heavily. You are obviously not good at that. And your remark that you will keep left is down right ridiculous.


----------



## Road_UK

snowdog said:


> Rear view mirror most of the time, left side mirror only really when moving left, sometimes when I drive slow my right side mirror (when merging and not on the right). Usually drive at a speed that the right mirror is obsolete really though . I do check my mirror every 30 seconds at least though, albeit for the wrong reasons I guess than I learned on my lessons ( mostly as I am paranoid for unmarked coppers, and to see if there is the odd car that wants to go faster than me).
> 
> And yeah, Dutch idiots have no idea about the right of way and that you have to yield for all when changing a lane.
> 
> I never have that problem, probably because I move at the same or faster speed as those Germans .
> 
> It is here too but cops often find it more important to cash on ''fast'' drivers than Nur Links drivers...
> 
> In Poland you have something FAR more annoying, trucks overtaking each other for 2 minutes or longer at 81km/h. I have regularly seen fed up people overtake them on the hard shoulder due to the stupid slow truck overtaking.


Actually, lane discipline in the Netherlands is pretty good compared to some other European countries, including Germany. But not when it comes to switching lanes.


----------



## mappero

^^ Indeed. And sad thing it's very common practice by Dutch drivers... But it's also the reason that almost everyone driving no more 120 km/h. I agree with this here in NL, but please don't take this behavior outside the NL!


----------



## Road_UK

mappero said:


> ^^ Indeed. And sad thing it's very common practice by Dutch drivers... But it's also the reason that almost everyone driving no more 120 km/h. I agree with this here in NL, but please don't take this behavior outside the NL!


The Dutch do have a very bad name in Austria and Germany when it comes to driving. Something in their heads must be getting a fuse disturbance as soon as they cross that border, because they drive not that bad in their own country. With the Brits its the other way round. Very bad in the UK, ok when they're abroad.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Germans are not exactly the best drivers in the Netherlands as well. They often drive far too slow.


----------



## woutero

Edit: in response to Road_UK

You obviously do not know me (or sarcasm), and I am not even going to respond to your 'observations' about my driving style which you do not know.

The thing is that a lot of people here are annoyed by people who are staying in the left lane, but they are also annoyed by people who change to the right lane, but try to get back into the left lane to overtake a truck (which is inevitable).

When you have a lot of traffic, and a bunch of truck traffic, you ultimately get to the situation that there are people who want to go faster than capacity allows. Especially around trucks. I am usually the faster driver, but when I see someone driving 110km/h who is approaching a truck from behind, I give him space (without braking) to overtake the truck. This is to avoid the situation that the other car has to slow down to 80 km/h and tries to switch to the left lane at too slow a speed. 

So imho, the people who stick to their 'right' to not give space to other people are actually causing more congestion than those who give others some space. 

Again, of course people should not just throw their car in front of a faster car. But if you don't want them to stay in the left lane, you have to accept that they are eventually going to switch lanes to overtake a truck.


----------



## Road_UK

Yeah Chris, you don't even know him.


----------



## Road_UK

ChrisZwolle said:


> Germans are not exactly the best drivers in the Netherlands as well. They often drive far too slow.


In Austria they are terrible!


----------



## Surel

This debate about who is more important (that his time is more precious) is completely useless here (as the rational arguments are not used anyway) as I already discovered, but is fun... lol.

My rule here is that I keep to the traffic rules, safety, and preferring my time over time of other drivers as well preferring keeping my speed stable.

I move to the right only when I am finished with the overtaking or when I am sure that the car behind me would get over me before I would have to slow down because of the car in front of me. I will certainly not get myself stuck in between two trucks because of someone behind me having to drive 30 kms/h slower than he would do otherwise...

Same, when I see slow vehicle in front of me that I will have to overtake in like 20 sec and a vehicle approaching from behind that would get over me like in 20 sec or more I dont prefer giving that driver my precious time and I just start overtaking right away.

My dutch gf on the other side is able to put herself in between two trucks for almost anyone...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*What is a plus lane?*

What is a "plus lane"? A question often heard. Plus lanes are unique to the Netherlands. No other country in the world uses it. Plus lanes are basically the same as regular shoulder running, a shoulder that is dynamically opened during peak traffic time. However, plus lanes are on the median side of the road. Plus lanes open if traffic volumes exceed 1,350 vehicles per lane per hour.









Plus lane along A1 between Apeldoorn and Deventer.

When shoulder running was first implemented in the Netherlands during early 1990s, there were concerns about safety, after all the shoulder would be utilized as a driving lane. While SOS niches were constructed, there were calls for left shoulders which could be turned into a driving lane if peak traffic required it, while preserving the shoulder.

During the 1990s, physical road widenings were politically incorrect, "more capacity" was almost a dirty word. However, with traffic congestion getting out of control, something needed to be done, and that is why they implemented shoulder running. The Netherlands was the first country in Europe that implemented shoulder running.

Plus lanes are constructed for various reasons. First of all, sometimes a full widening (3.25 - 3.50 meter wide lanes) was very expensive because of additional right-of-way needed. Several plus lanes were constructed within the existing right of way in some crowded areas. These are very narrow lanes of 2.50 meters wide, and often have an 80 km/h speed limit when opened. Examples are A27 south of Utrecht and A28 in Zwolle

Other plus lanes required a physical widening anyway, and were constructed wider, often 3.00 meters wide, allowing a speed limit of 100 km/h. These could easily be changed into a permanent driving lane. Examples are A1 near Apeldoorn, A12 near Ede and several other locations along A12.

Another consideration at the time was that plus lanes required slightly less phases within procedural planning, and were thus less prone to lenghty procedures and appeals. Before 2008, the average procedural time from start to construction was 11 years. It is now down to less than 3 years. Since 2008, it does not matter whether you construct a plus lane or a full lane. So the recently opened plus lanes along A12 are likely the last ones to be constructed, except on locations where a full widening is considered to expensive, such as along a part of A15 in the Port of Rotterdam area. 

Another myth is that plus lanes are cheaper. They are not. They require a physical widening of the roadway that would require just as much time as a regular widening. The operational costs are higher than regular lanes due to active traffic management, and plus lanes are more expensive to build and operate during a lifecycle. 

This is the most recent map of plus lanes and shoulder running in the Netherlands:


----------



## the_Aristocrat

woutero said:


> If we can't expect that of other road users, everyone is just always going to stay in the left lane, which is what happens in Germany, and it results in everybody going slower than they want to and than is necessary.
> 
> I guess in NL we are more used to using the roads as efficiently as possible together, and not so focussed on 'I need to go faster'.


Are you serious? This is exactly what annoys me so much in the Netherlands, traffic massing up in the left lane because no one wants to move to the right. 
I really can't figure out how you derive to the conclusion that in NL the drivers are more used to using the roads as efficiently as possible together, and not so focussed on 'I need to go faster'. :nuts:


----------



## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> What is a "plus lane"? (...)


Thanks! I get the same question a lot too, I will now be able to just link to this post kay:


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## snowdog

Road_UK said:


> Actually, lane discipline in the Netherlands is pretty good compared to some other European countries, including Germany. But not when it comes to switching lanes.


That is what I said.
But, not always:









From about 10 sec.



















You get the point.

I come across tens of cars like this every day in my short 20 minute motorway commute to work.

It's mostly in corners, somehow old grey haired farts do not pee off to the right in/before corners when they slow down significantly despite the corner being fine at vmax... They forget ''keep to the right'' and concentrate on not missing the corner at vmax minus 30, I just drive by on the right, too much stress to be held up behind these dinosaurs.


----------



## Koesj

Hey Wouter I totally agree with you and often leave small gaps for others to merge into if they run into the danger of getting stuck behind a lorry while a veritable left-lane train of station wagons with housefathers is aching to get home in time for their boiled potatoes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Me too. I don't like this egotistic driving style of "I'm in the left lane and everyone should get the hell out of my way".


----------



## sotonsteve

Lane discipline in Europe seems much better than in the UK. It is amazing what 35km of water does for driving standards. Over in the UK most people drive in the lane second closest to the central reservation, using the lane closest to the central reservation for overtaking. Lane 1 is only used to a good extent by drivers either when the road is almost empty or when the road is almost at full capacity. For the majority of the time lane 1 handles the lowest traffic volumes, as it is considered to be the slow lane, not the driving lane. As a result of this culture, motorway widening is less effective. People will still drive as close to the central reservation as possible, and lorry drivers just get the benefit of having more lanes almost exclusively to themselves. If lane discipline were better there would not be as much congestion.

When I drive I use the two second rule. In the UK it is said that drivers should not drive less than two seconds behind the vehicle in front, to maintain a safe distance. By that same principle if I am more than two seconds behind the vehicle in front then I am not actively overtaking, and therefore I should not be in an overtaking lane in relation to them. Obviously you need to apply common sense, but I find if you generally apply the two second rule when it comes to lane discipline as well as safe distances that you are driving as the law intends and most importantly driving considerately.


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> Me too. I don't like this egotistic driving style of "I'm in the left lane and everyone should get the hell out of my way".


This encourages illegal behavior, ''I'm moving left and fy everyone already in the left lane going faster than me''... This is why Dutch drivers are called Nur Links...
If you don't drive egoistically slow you won't have a problem merging in the left lane either. I personally don't understand, you have 2 choices: Right > Move slow, about truck speed. Left> Move along at whatever the ''train of station wagons'' is moving at... Any speed in between doesn't make any sense at all ? Either you're in a hurry and move fast, or you drive slow and economically, I don't get the demand to do something in between...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, guess what, you're not alone on the road.


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> Well, guess what, you're not alone on the road.


Exactly, so you try to do your best not to waste other peoples time...

I can't remember EVER being overtaken on the right except once when my car broke down and I was pushing it ( going left on a junction to get off the main road). Yet some people are so egoistic to block the left line like all those people in the video's I posted for no reason whatsoever.

Or because they want to go 5 km/h faster than the other car, they block the road for everyone who wants to go 20km/h or more faster. That is egoism...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Last Friday I was driving on A28 across the Veluwe, and I passed a truck in a long line of 90 - 100 km/h driving cars on the left lane. After I passed the truck, the right lane was completely empty, but the left lane was still inching forward at 100 km/h. What happened? A car+caravan was driving in the distance. So instead of sitting in that line, I switched to the right lane, drove 3 kilometers with nobody in front of me and passed about 30 cars. Of course I'm the one breaking the law (passing on the right), but damn people are like sheep.


----------



## Surel

snowdog said:


> Exactly, so you try to do your best not to waste other peoples time...
> 
> I can't remember EVER being overtaken on the right except once when my car broke down and I was pushing it ( going left on a junction to get off the main road). Yet some people are so egoistic to block the left line like all those people in the video's I posted for no reason whatsoever.
> 
> Or because they want to go 5 km/h faster than the other car, they block the road for everyone who wants to go 20km/h or more faster. That is egoism...


The people you posted in the videos are just unskilled drivers. There is a difference between unskilled drivers and different preferences between the drivers.

There is no difference in your desire to drive 180 km/h where you are forced to drive at 130 km/h by other people, that dont want to drive at 80 km/h in the right lane behind a truck, and their desire to drive at 130 km/h. Everyone is of course egoistic. People dont do a thing becuase they would want to suffer. And if they do, it just means they like suffering anyway.


----------



## Road_UK

ChrisZwolle said:


> Well, guess what, you're not alone on the road.


Of course I let people in if the traffic is solid but at a steady pace, or if my speed and the speed of the vehicle on the inside are fairly simular. This isn't the argument. But I get annoyed when I am approaching with a higher speed, and the vehicle in question just moves in right in front of me like that. An old Dutch habit, and rather dangerous. And if the speed differences are high, and the timing is bad, they can go to hell, I'm not going to stand on my brakes for them.


----------



## Suburbanist

snowdog said:


> Or because they want to go 5 km/h faster than the other car, they block the road for everyone who wants to go 20km/h or more faster. That is egoism...


I think drivers are "entitled" to use the left lane if they are driving at the speed limit or very close to it whereas traffic on the right lane is slower. 

On the ideal world, highways would always have a center-most empty lane all time, but that is not reality. In such circumstance, I think it is grossly unfair and just plain wrong to expect a driver on a 2x2 highway with 100 limit should keep driving behind a 90 km/h truck on the right lane instead of going 100 on the left lane just because some people can't be bothered by the 100km/h speed limit and want the left lane for driving over the limit.

Look, I'm not advocating drivers clogging left lane just because they are driving at the speed limit when the right lane is empty. But if the right lane is occupied by traffic slower than the limit, then, yeah, that is what left lanes are made for: overtaking.

And if the speed differential between two lanes is like 10 or 15 km/h, obviously it will take a while to overtake. Faster-than-the-limit divers need to put up with it, period.


----------



## Road_UK

Lots of words to describe a very basic rule: keep to the inside unless overtaking. And do not move in front of a car that is about to overtake you, you do not have the right of way. Ever.


----------



## Slagathor

This problem seems to exist mostly in areas that are infested by lorry traffic, in my experience. If a motorway is crowded with lorries, a 3rd or even 4th lane becomes mandatory imo.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yep, if truck volumes exceed 10.000 - 15.000 per day, the right lane becomes underutilized. Which means the remaining 50.000 or so vehicles mainly squeeze on the left lane. Despite the many recent widenings, the Netherlands still requires many more 2x3 motorways. A1, A15, A27, A28, A50, A58 and A67 come to mind as examples of heavy truck traffic coupled with relatively high traffic volumes (AADT over 60.000 vpd)


----------



## Road_UK

I don't find the A50 all that bad. Perhaps A15, A67 and A27, comes a bit closer to freight levels you find in Germany, Belgium and the UK.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The A50 (Zwolle - Arnhem) has very high truck volumes of 15.000 - 20.000 per day, coupled with relatively high overall volumes. For instance, Zwolle - Apeldoorn carries up to 80.000 vehicles per day while Apeldoorn - Arnhem is closer to 100.000 vehicles per day. Especially the Heerde - Apeldoorn section suffers from frequent congestion in recent years but data is not collected very well on that stretch. 

Zwolle - Apeldoorn could very easily be widened. There is a grass reservation in the median and all bridges and overpasses already have pavement for a third lane.


----------



## Road_UK

What are the freight statistics for A12 Inntal Autobahn?


----------



## mappero

All those huge numbers of volume are because in the Netherlands there is no other option to go from one city to another as just take single motorway. There is not diversity in commuting in between cities. Especially if you drive truck or big vehicle. BTW, two cities in NL and distance in between is like medium size town in other countries...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Road_UK said:


> What are the freight statistics for A12 Inntal Autobahn?


I don't know trucking in particular, but the overal volumes on A12 are between 40.000 and 65.000 vpd east of Innsbruck.


----------



## Surel

Road_UK said:


> Lots of words to describe a very basic rule: keep to the inside unless overtaking. And do not move in front of a car that is about to overtake you, you do not have the right of way. Ever.


Yeah, but the discussion here is about what is the right distance to move in front of that car. Because eventually there is allways a car that is about to overtake you, the question is just how far behind it is.

And I find driving on the Dutch 2x2 motorways quite smooth. Its more like moving in the flow, albeit of the high volumes the flow is constant and decent.


----------



## Road_UK

Surel said:


> Yeah, but the discussion here is about what is the right distance to move in front of that car. Because eventually there is allways a car that is about to overtake you, the question is just how far behind it is.


Instinct. What you should question yourself is: if I move over now, am I going to cut him up really bad?


----------



## Surel

Road_UK said:


> Instinct. What you should question yourself is: if I move over now, am I going to cut him up really bad?


Sure. But, I also think about, is he going to cut me with truck in front of me really bad? Or is there a train that will make me wait for few minutes? So, I move on before I would cut him up, I give him just enough space to adjust the speed, so that I dont have to adjust my speed. There is no reason for me to prefer someone's elses time gain to my time lost.


----------



## Road_UK

ChrisZwolle said:


> I don't know trucking in particular, but the overal volumes on A12 are between 40.000 and 65.000 vpd east of Innsbruck.


But you still get to see large convoys almost unknown in the Netherlands, and almost au pair with the ones on the E17 in Belgium, A2 and A3 in Germany, and the M6 and M25 in England.


----------



## Road_UK

Surel said:


> Sure. But, I also think about, is he going to cut me in front of a truck really bad? So, I move on before I would cut him up, I give him just enough space to adjust the speed, so that I dont have to adjust my speed. There is no reason for me to prefer someone's elses time gain to my time lost.


That's what I have been saying all along. Instinct and calculate, but don't move over out of nowhere. That's annoying.


----------



## Koesj

You were going on about it like a giant asshole to woutero though while he was stating pretty much the same thing, only coming from a different angle.

Just saying.


----------



## Road_UK

He didn't say anything like that. He defended his annoying Dutch habit, and moaned that the Germans are not giving him any space.
If he gets stuck behind a truck all the time, he is either very slow compared to overtaking traffic that won't give him any space, or he is not adequately calculating which right speed to use, and or the right moment between vehicles to manoeuvre. Either way, it's his own bloody fault!


----------



## woutero

Yes. Or you can go back and see what I actually said 

I think we might be talking about a different situation. You assume a situation where the left lane is going too fast for someone to switch from right to left lane. That only happens when there is plenty of extra capacity and space for "right lane guy" to make a good judgement and move without bothering anyone (which is what you are saying and I agreed with).

The situation I was trying to describe is where the passing lane is close to capacity: everyone is trying to overtake the same truck, and everyone wants to do it faster than the guy in front of him. In this case (we have all been there) the speed of the left lane slows down because of capacity problems. So at this point "right lane guy" is going about the same speed (or maybe a tad slower) than the left lane, but is approaching a truck from behind.

This is where I think a "use-the-road-capacity-as-efficiently-as-possible-and-give-each-other-some-space"-approach would be better than a "guy-in-the-right-lane-just-has-to-hang-out-there-until-all-traffic-on-the-left-is-gone-because-it's-the-law"-approach.

That does not mean that "right lane guy" should make any stupid manoeuvres, but I think that (OPINION) sticking to your "rights" to not let someone in is reducing the efficiency of the highway, and is annoying "right lane guy", while it gives the "left lane guy" no advantage at all.

And now I'm done with it.

So... How about them Dutch roads. Quite something, eh?


----------



## Road_UK

Point taken.


----------



## snowdog

I agree with Road UK this time on pretty much all his last posts.

Too many people just expect others to give them space or brake instead of keeping to the rules...

And this happens more in NL than in DE or PL...

But, Dutch roads summed up : Way undercapacity.
compare driving the 2x2 A15 all the way from R'dam to the east, and the A2 in Poland, it's hell in Holland compared to PL, lovely empty new motorway with decent speed limit and little cops who care if you do 
+20 compared to congested truck ridden PoS with crappy speed limit and highway robbers a couple of times per week with hidden radar traps...

But the NIMBY and environmental brigade blocks/protests new or improved infra . While in eastern Europe, they celebrate a new motorway. Guess it's because of the population density but still, they earn SO MUCH money from motorists here, they could bloody well spend a lot more for them, rather than sending into other things. I feel like a guinea pig for the govt. and various people just because I love cars and prefer it as my form of transport. When I hear from my family in PL, how little tax and insurance they pay compared to here for their cars, and how there isn't so much anti speed state terrorism, I kind of get the feeling I'm starting to belong there more than here, despite living here all my life. For the costs I pay here for a simple Mitsubishi Galant V6, I could run an Audi A8/Merc S class there.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This is the N701 near the city of Almere.

This two-lane road with shoulders has a 100 km/h speed limit. Of course, 100 km/h is considered far too dangerous for Dutch drivers to handle. So what are they going to do? Remove the shoulders and reduce the speed limit to 80 km/h. hno:


----------



## keokiracer

^^ You forgot the repaving part... 

Dutch logic:

Better asphalt = lower speedlimit


----------



## Slagathor

Almere's mayor is Annemarie Jorritsma so I can't say I'm very surprised.


----------



## keokiracer

The N701 is managed by the province (Flevoland), so there's no way she directly did it.
How much influence does a municipality have over these decisions?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Close to no influence. The Flevoland province owns and maintains the road.


----------



## Road_UK

A lot, if not all N-roads in Overijssel have overtaking bans, but at least the limit is 100...


----------



## Surel

Huh, I did not know it was 100 km/h road. I also did not notice autoweg sign there, nor is there green middle line.

I found that indeed the 100 km/h is just on a short part at the begining of the road by the bridge but anyway, there is no autoweg sign, right?


----------



## Road_UK

Bless Austria, Germany and the UK for having standard 100 limits outside build up areas (unless signposted differently of course)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Road_UK said:


> A lot, if not all N-roads in Overijssel have overtaking bans, but at least the limit is 100...


Only N36, N48, N50 & N377 still have a 100 km/h speed limit. The rest is all downgraded to 80 km/h since 2006. The reason for downgrading? "100 km/h didn't fit in the network".


----------



## Road_UK

I can't remember all the N-roads I have driven on last week, and I am to lazy to look them all up. But from Sneek, I went to Joure, Heerenveen and merged on the A28 , and then took exit 22 as far as I remember, and continue on N-roads which were nearly all 100 kph limited until getting on the A30 to Enschede. After I did my business there, I crossed the border, got on the A31, A3, A9, A99, A8, A93, A12 and finally my last 32 km of B169 Zillertal Bundestraße, which between A12 and Mayrhofen has limits of 50, 60, 70, 80 and 100. All within 32 km.

Edit: I'm pretty sure the N30 has a 100 limit...


----------



## keokiracer

Surel said:


> Huh, I did not know it was 100 km/h road. I also did not notice autoweg sign there, nor is there green middle line.
> 
> I found that indeed the 100 km/h is just on a short part at the begining of the road by the bridge but anyway, there is no autoweg sign, right?


Not sure which bridge you mean. Hollandsebrug (A6)?

Anyway, I see signs here, here. East of that is already downgraded to 80


----------



## keokiracer

Road_UK said:


> merged on the A28 , and then took exit 22


That's the N377 ChrisZ mentioned.


----------



## Road_UK

Right. I must of come off the right exit then...


----------



## Surel

keokiracer said:


> Not sure which bridge you mean. Hollandsebrug (A6)?
> 
> Anyway, I see signs here, here. East of that is already downgraded to 80



Yep, that bridge. Was it then someday 100 km/h all the way to Lelystad?


----------



## Suburbanist

Surel said:


> Yep, that bridge. Was it then someday 100 km/h all the way to Lelystad?


Yes, with green central median lane, as late as 2008.


----------



## italystf

ChrisZwolle said:


> This is the N701 near the city of Almere.
> 
> This two-lane road with shoulders has a 100 km/h speed limit. Of course, 100 km/h is considered far too dangerous for Dutch drivers to handle. So what are they going to do? Remove the shoulders and reduce the speed limit to 80 km/h. hno:


Was this road planned to be 4 lane or to be used as airstrip in war time? It's damn wide.


----------



## Batavier

The road is very wide because its also a ****!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Shoulders were sometimes added during 1960s as a parking strip for touristic purposes.


----------



## snowdog

Plus it's hardly wide, it's how provincial roads are built in Poland standard (with extra lanes on the side).

Duurzaam debiel strikes again, ruining another good road because it's not a ''through road'', imbeciles.


----------



## Wilhem275

Road_UK said:


> The Dutch do have a habit of throwing their vehicles on the outside lane without looking. Very annoying. I use side mirrors only.


They also have the habit of throwing their caravans into my motorhome :gaah:  happened last year...


----------



## Slagathor

keokiracer said:


> The N701 is managed by the province (Flevoland), so there's no way she directly did it.
> How much influence does a municipality have over these decisions?





ChrisZwolle said:


> Close to no influence. The Flevoland province owns and maintains the road.


In that case I hope she uses that road everyday and that she's gonna hate it. It would be sweet revenge.


----------



## Agnette

My new video from NL, please write your comments


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some photos I took yesterday in the Almere area.

1. Stichtse Brug. This bridge carries the A27 motorway. It was built as two separate bridges in 1983 and 1999.

A27 Stichtse Brug-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

2. View from the bridge.

A27 Stichtse Brug-9 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

3. 

A27 Stichtse Brug-15 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

4. A6/A27 interchange "knooppunt Almere".

A6 knooppunt Almere-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

5. 

A6 knooppunt Almere-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

6. Externally lit sign.

A6 knooppunt Almere-7 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

7.

A6 knooppunt Almere-8 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

8. Begin of A27 south to Utrecht.

A27 knooppunt Almere-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

9. The northern terminus of the A27 motorway.

A27 knooppunt Almere-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

10. It's a turbine interchange, all connectors are 2-lane.

A27 knooppunt Almere-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

11. 

A27 knooppunt Almere-9 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

12. A6 near Lelystad.

A6-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

13. Jungle freeway.

A6-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

14. other direction: prairie freeway.

A6-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

15. 

A6-7 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

16.

A6-8 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Slagathor

How I wish we had more of these: 



ChrisZwolle said:


> 13. Jungle freeway.
> 
> A6-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


Instead of these:



ChrisZwolle said:


> 14. other direction: prairie freeway.
> 
> A6-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


I like it when you can't see the traffic on the opposite side, it's very calm that way. In other countries it's more frequent of course, particularly on motorways that run through mountainous terrain. There's one really great road in Italy near Genoa where I drove a few years ago, I think it was the A6. The other half of the motorway runs on the other side of mountains, you only see it a few moments.


----------



## MattN

https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=51.31...d=AxLoaR3ATtFKqrB7Ml9OuA&cbp=12,241.16,,0,6.4


----------



## Slagathor

I have no business there


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Pano


A28-11-08-2012-12 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Wilhem275

ChrisZwolle said:


> 8. Begin of A27 south to Utrecht.
> 
> A27 knooppunt Almere-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


Jeez, that's a sick way to reduce lanes! I hate when I find those unnatural things...
What was wrong in letting the two leftmost lanes go straight and having the right one merging? There's plenty of space for a safe merge.


----------



## aswnl

ChrisZwolle said:


> Pano


Allemachtig, zelfs op 23" past het er nog niet op... :bash: :nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Wilhem275 said:


> Jeez, that's a sick way to reduce lanes! I hate when I find those unnatural things...
> What was wrong in letting the two leftmost lanes go straight and having the right one merging? There's plenty of space for a safe merge.


This is actually better than when the right lane has to merge. That way truck traffic doesn't have to impede the traffic flow. Cars fit better into the next lane than trucks.


----------



## aswnl

Wilhem275 said:


> Jeez, that's a sick way to reduce lanes! I hate when I find those unnatural things...
> What was wrong in letting the two leftmost lanes go straight and having the right one merging? There's plenty of space for a safe merge.


Tapering is only allowed when merging into 3 lanes. After that the left lane will end. German way of merging with double merging on the right side is not allowed.


----------



## Wilhem275

By double right merge do you mean this?

In theory, vehicles on the center lane should slide to the right as soon as they have a free lane, thus leaving proper capacity for those on the leftmost lane to swap lane too, before the lane ends.
What worries me is that in real life truckers will probably do it, while car drivers on center lane will simply stick there...

I understand your point, but I wouldn't place a "left lane merge" in the same spot where new traffic comes from the right.
I'd put it before the junction (but that would reduce capacity) or a lot after it.
But this is just an opinion, I'm pretty sure there are a lot of studies about how to calculate better solutions.

In general I don't like when the faster lane has to merge, because merging implies reducing speed, and I don't feel safe when left side traffic travels slower than that on the right half of the road.
And I still find unnatural and somehow disturbing that way of reducing a lane; I mean, when you have to weave left-right-left, as to avoid an obstacle, while the alignment is perfectly straight.

Another spot like that (southbound lane)

Btw, I understand that all what I'm describing is exaggerated by the tele effect of the picture


----------



## Bothar.G

Slagathor said:


> I like it when you can't see the traffic on the opposite side, it's very calm that way.


We tried that too but it requires a lot of maintenance. It blocks dazzling from vehicles on the opposite side of the highway. This is a great advantage at nighttime during the winter months. 












The Dutch highways normally have reasonably wide medians to accommodate small hedgerows. In Ireland, the hedgerows were planted before the new system.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Notice how many people have their lights on in the middle of the day in the summer while it's not mandatory.


A28-11-08-2012-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## zsmg

^Sheep effect; a driver sees a car with the lights running decides to do the same thing and this repeats indefinitely.


----------



## Groningen NL

ChrisZwolle said:


> Notice how many people have their lights on in the middle of the day in the summer while it's not mandatory


It seems to improve safety. In Bulgaria it's mandatory since a few weeks I belief....


----------



## Suburbanist

There is scientific evidence daytime lights on reduce accidents as it increases awareness of other vehicles in the peripheral vision of drivers.


----------



## Wilhem275

I agree on their usefulness. Even in bright daylight a vehicle with headlights (or, way better, DRLs) on is much easier and faster to recognize.

The front lights are two points of concentrated light (much stronger than environmental lighting) placed in a fixed position -the corners of the vehicles- and this make it quicker to understand not only its position, but mainly its relative speed.
That happens because calculating a variable distance in perspective from our P.O.V. to the object is a hard task, while if you look at the lights you have to calculate if they are getting closer or more distant to each other.

It gives its best advantage especially in rear mirrors view.

What is more, if sunlight is very bright you have a high contrast between sunny areas and shadowed spots (as under some trees or an overpass), where objects can results harder to see than it would seem. DRLs help in this case, too.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The downside is that it obscures motorcyclists, especially during the summer when there are many of them.


----------



## aswnl

You forgot to mention that cyclists and pedestrians suffer from the fact that they are far less 'visible' with daytime vehicle lights on. I've experienced the nonsense of the measurement in Hungary this year. So let us hope the disease doesn't spread any further...


----------



## Road_UK

I can tell the Dutch from miles away in France. Always spontaneously their headlights on in the name of the Father, the Son and Safety.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N50 Kampen*

This is an aerial photo of the N50 near Kampen. On the left is the new Hanze Railway Line, where services will begin in december, on the right is the reconstructed N50.

Notice both the railway and the N50 are going over viaducts that cross nothing. A bypass of the IJssel River is planned here. Because there are no floodplains near Kampen, the river can go nowhere but up, so they will construct this bypass in the future to prevent flooding in Kampen and upstream. Notice how the N50 is already designed with space for a 2x2 motorway.


----------



## domtoren

*Some Dutch highway pics*

A10, Coentunnel Amsterdam:



















A2 near Utrecht:

The bulb at right contains the display of a luxury car garage, the first days after the opening many people drove slowly there to see the cars on display and caused traffic problems!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I like that last photo. It's A2 at the Nieuwegein exit. You can only take a photo in that direction from a bus or high van. There is a cycle path on the other side of the viaduct.


----------



## Suburbanist

aswnl said:


> You forgot to mention that cyclists and pedestrians suffer from the fact that they are far less 'visible' with daytime vehicle lights on. I've experienced the nonsense of the measurement in Hungary this year. So let us hope the disease doesn't spread any further...


Pedestrians are reported to be the ones who benefit most from daytime lights on, especially in term of judging the speed of vehicles.

Lots of research and studies on that.


----------



## Slagathor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Notice how many people have their lights on in the middle of the day in the summer while it's not mandatory.


Remember that Postbus 51 commercial* in the 1990s? It had a split screen. On top there was a car approaching without the headlights switched on, below a car _with_ the headlights switched on. A voice-over made it very clear it was a good idea to always switch on your headlights.

_*Postbus 51 = public television announcement, for non Dutch speakers_.


----------



## Surel

Road_UK said:


> I can tell the Dutch from miles away in France. Always spontaneously their headlights on in the name of the Father, the Son and Safety.


Funny, becuase in NL they dont, I would say 50 on : 50 off.


----------



## Bothar.G

The worst part is that some European drivers glare you with their front fog lights during the daytime. From these pictures, drivers seem to just have their headlights switched on.


----------



## keokiracer

domtoren said:


> A2 near Utrecht:
> 
> The bulb at right contains the display of a luxury car garage, the first days after the opening many people drove slowly there to see the cars on display and caused traffic problems!


That car garage went bankrupt, didn't it?


----------



## Road_UK

Surel said:


> Funny, becuase in NL they dont, I would say 50 on : 50 off.


Depends where you are. In the northern parts it's a lot more common.


----------



## Godius

Why does A2-West have such a big sign, with a lot of empty space, in comparison to the A2-Zuid sign


----------



## Agnette

ChrisZwolle said:


> ... on the right is the reconstructed N50....


...with the strange things on the roadside... :dunno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Bothar.G said:


> The worst part is that some European drivers glare you with their front fog lights during the daytime. From these pictures, drivers seem to just have their headlights switched on.



A28-11-08-2012-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Maastricht double-deck tunnel*

Some recent photos of the under construction double-deck tunnel in Maastricht.


----------



## Palance

The widening of the A15 near Barendrecht, south of Rotterdam. Pictures are taken from the 'green' noise barrier between Barendrecht and the A15. A pedestrian path is being built om that '****', so now everyone can watch the widening very closely


----------



## ChrisZwolle

>


Berlin Wall 2.0


----------



## Penn's Woods

The third-to-last picture in Palance's set is the second one I've seen on this thread today of a Dutch sign with the word "route" appearing ahead of the route number. Is there a reason for that? Seems redundant to me.

(Also, off topic but just as a point of linguistic interest, in the U.S. "****" is spelled "dike" when it means barrier. "****" with a Y means lesbian here.)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This is the main road plan of 1966. The Netherlands had 12.5 million inhabitants at that time and was projected to grow to 20 million by the year 2000. Most of these main roads were planned to be motorways.










The vast majority of the plans were not executed, and even at today's traffic problems, the Netherlands does not need such an extensive motorway network. 

The bold line are the motorways that were completed by 1966. The single solid lines were single-carriageway main roads, most of which were upgraded to a motorway in later years. Much of the dashed routes were not built. 

The Netherlands currently has just over 16.5 million inhabitants.

The 1966 road plan was by far the most ambitious road plan ever. The oil crises of the 1970s and increased environmental movement and lobby scaled these plans back significantly.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Says here: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verzorgingsplaats that the word "verzorgingplaats" is used "specifically in the Netherlands." So what do they say in Flanders?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A "verzorgingsplaats" is more jargon than daily speech in the Netherlands. Most people just call it a "parkeerplaats".


----------



## italystf

ChrisZwolle said:


> This is the main road plan of 1966. The Netherlands had 12.5 million inhabitants at that time and was projected to grow to 20 million by the year 2000. Most of these main roads were planned to be motorways.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The vast majority of the plans were not executed, and even at today's traffic problems, the Netherlands does not need such an extensive motorway network.
> 
> The bold line are the motorways that were completed by 1966. The single solid lines were single-carriageway main roads, most of which were upgraded to a motorway in later years. Much of the dashed routes were not built.
> 
> The Netherlands currently has just over 16.5 million inhabitants.
> 
> The 1966 road plan was by far the most ambitious road plan ever. The oil crises of the 1970s and increased environmental movement and lobby scaled these plans back significantly.


^^Is this for real? It means a motorway connection for every village, like upgrading to motorway standards all SS and SP routes in Italy :lol:. Nobody would need a such project and no country in the world has a so dense network.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You have to understand that motorways with more than 4 lanes were an unknown concept at the time. I think only the A13 and parts of A16 had 6 lanes at that time. If we would distribute the existing (and needed) capacity over motorways with 2x2 lanes, you'll get a network that would look somewhat like this, especially in central Netherlands.


----------



## snowdog

We don't need it, but it would be great if we had that road network.

Decent alternatives to every route, more redundancy, far more relaxed (emptier roads) and faster driving...


----------



## aswnl

The 1966 "Structuurschema" has never been an official roadplan. The 1968 Rijkswegenplan was vast (and based on the 1966 Structuurschema), but not that dense.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Kerensheide interchange*

The new flyover at the Kerensheide motorway interchange will open to traffic wednesday night. This flyover carries traffic from Eindhoven towards Heerlen.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The flyover opened at 1 am sharp.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Typical Dutch sign with everything that is forbidden, of course with exceptions.









very large


----------



## Groningen NL

Those are also common in Germany


----------



## Road_UK

And Italy. And you are required to read them doing considerable speeds.


----------



## Slagathor

It needn't be that complicated, all you need to keep the beaches nice is three rules:

1) No animals.
2) Don't litter.
3) Don't be a moron.


----------



## italystf

ChrisZwolle said:


> Typical Dutch sign with everything that is forbidden, of course with exceptions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> very large


^^What does the 6th sign (from left to right) means?
And why the hell rubber mattresses and rings are forbidden on the beach?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Slagathor said:


> It needn't be that complicated, all you need to keep the beaches nice is three rules:
> 
> 1) No animals.


But, but, but....

"The dog ban is not in effect between May 15 and September 15 north (right) of the Molenslag in Monster, and on the beach between the Strandweg in Ter Heijde and Beukel in 's-Gravenzande. 
Dogs are allowed between 7 p.m. and 10 a.m. and between September 16 and May 14 all day on other beach areas."

:nuts::lol:


----------



## Rebasepoiss

^^ At least that rule is nice and clear 

BTW, who would ride a horse to the beach?


----------



## Slagathor

italystf said:


> ^^What does the 6th sign (from left to right) means?
> And why the hell rubber mattresses and rings are forbidden on the beach?


It's a swimming area, so you can't go through there with a motorized boat that has a propeller cause you might cut limbs off swimmers.

Rubber mattresses and other floating devices are forbidden on certain beaches because prevailing currents and winds tend to blow things out into the North sea. Frankly I think the sign is a bit panicky and nanny state like, but the reason behind it is valid at least.



ChrisZwolle said:


> But, but, but....
> 
> "The dog ban is not in effect between May 15 and September 15 north (right) of the Molenslag in Monster, and on the beach between the Strandweg in Ter Heijde and Beukel in 's-Gravenzande.
> Dogs are allowed between 7 p.m. and 10 a.m. and between September 16 and May 14 all day on other beach areas."
> 
> :nuts::lol:


If I were in charge, I'd be like: "What part of NO ANIMALS don't you understand?" 



Rebasepoiss said:


> ^^ At least that rule is nice and clear
> 
> BTW, who would ride a horse to the beach?


It's a popular past time here. Horses also usually love running through breakers.


----------



## Surel

The animals wouldn't be a problem if the owners were able to collect their shit. Besides the dogs should wear some muzzles or be on the leech, at least when the concentration of small kids is very high. But on the other side, Dutch dogs are most of the time just lap dogs and there is not much of them. The horses are quite a problem though. I wouldn’t like to have them on a beach.

BTW Dutch are freaking this weekend because temperature should rise above 30 degrees C.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A15 eastbound traffic will be switched to a new carriageway in a few weeks.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

To continue with the subsign madness 

A28 Hermelenweg by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

A28

A28 Nieuwleusen-7 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

private lane

A28 plusstroken Zwolle-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Penn's Woods

Surel said:


> ....
> BTW Dutch are freaking this weekend because temperature should rise above 30 degrees C.


There was an article in the (London) Daily Telegraph yesterday about "Britain sweltering" as temperatures should reach 30 there. I wonder if they'll close Heathrow, like they do when there's a snow flurry [JOKING]

Today's forecast high for Philadelphia: 91 or 92 Fahrenheit (depending where you look), about 33 C. A bit cooler - 26 to 28 C - for the next few days. 30 is about normal for July and August here.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The fuss about the high temperatures is because the whole summer so far was rather disappointing and cool, with many days below 20 C. Normally 30+ temperatures are recorded virtually every summer for a couple of days at least.


----------



## Road_UK

We are going to hit 37c this Sunday. It's over 30c now, and we never went below 18 this summer. Not when I was here anyway.


----------



## g.spinoza

edit: wrong thread


----------



## Advancer

don't know if somebody posted this already but they started to put 120km/h speed limit signs at the highway. I find it a strange sight at the A58 al those 120 signs. I couldn't make a picture of it during driving.


----------



## Road_UK

Is 130 going to be the official limit?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

130 km/h will be the default limit starting September 1, 2012. Rijkswaterstaat started posting 120 km/h signs along stretches that will not yet be upgraded to 130 km/h.


----------



## Road_UK

... Or never will. In which case 120 limits will always be signposted along with the 100 ones I assume..?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, never say never, but 120 km/h will be signposted for the time being. It's not that different from Germany, where you can also find 120 and 130 km/h.


----------



## snowdog

Slagathor said:


> It needn't be that complicated, all you need to keep the beaches nice is three rules:
> 
> 1) No animals.
> 2) Don't litter.
> 3) Don't be a moron.


1: Be a boring old fart... ( imho) Is the only rule that descibes them all .


I still hate the eco morons for closing the car beach in 2004 in Oostvoorne...
You can't have any fun on the beach any more... I will never be able to drive on the beach in Holland  ( legally anyhow).


----------



## Road_UK

snowdog said:


> 1: Be a boring old fart... ( imho) Is the only rule that descibes them all .
> 
> I still hate the eco morons for closing the car beach in 2004 in Oostvoorne...
> You can't have any fun on the beach any more... I will never be able to drive on the beach in Holland  ( legally anyhow).


You can swim, walk, sunbathe, have Sex, bbq, play beach ball, and get drunk on the beach. I'll use roads if I want to drive, I don't need a beach for that.

Question: are you a Wilders voter?


----------



## julesstoop

snowdog said:


> I still hate the eco morons ...


hno:
There we go again being condescending and rude... Are you really unable to just be a tiny bit respectful to people that do not share your every opinion?


----------



## Road_UK

That's why I asked if he is a Wilders voter. They normally have that same tunnel visioned look on things.


----------



## g.spinoza

snowdog said:


> I will never be able to drive on the beach in Holland  ( legally anyhow).


Was it legal to drive on beaches in Holland? :O


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Just one beach near the Port of Rotterdam.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

5 foreign cities in 3 languages on 1 overhead sign


----------



## Road_UK

And on the same overhead signs cities signposted in three different countries. 
When coming from Aachen, heading towards the A76 in the Netherlands, Antwerpen is signposted only (in Germany signs for Antwerpen leads via Heerlen, Brussels leads via Liege). But even in the Netherlands, Antwerpen only is signposted until you get to Belgium, where you pick up signs for Brussels as well again. But now, on this picture at least they have displayed the signs for Brussel on the A76 slips...

Strange, the E314 (A76 in Netherlands) leads directly onto the E40 towards Brussel.


----------



## koloite

I drove on the A50 today where there is shoulder running during rush hour (between Apeldoorn and Arnhem). They have installed the new 120 km/h signs there as well, but with a rather cryptic subtext for the non-Dutch speaking motorists: 'bij gesloten spitsstrook'. Along with the 100 km/h signs that are active during shoulder running it looked at little confusing to me. Unfortunately I was not able to make a photo.


----------



## Road_UK

That is confusing. Especially seeing that the A50 between Arnhem and Apeldoorn carries a lot of Germans... But then again, Germans are not the best of shoulder runners. I see it at Munich every day.


----------



## Road_UK

From border to border, has the Netherlands actually put Brussel on their signs yet on the A76?


----------



## aswnl

No, it will only be signed from Kerensheide interchange, not from the German border. Brussel is being signposted on the E40.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, Antwerpen is signed there, because Brussel is signed via E40 from Aachen.


----------



## Road_UK

From Aachen to Brussels I always use A76, regardless what the Germans put on their signs. I don't like the Liege route, and through the Netherlands is just as quick and long.


----------



## aswnl

ChrisZwolle said:


> 5 foreign cities in 3 languages on 1 overhead sign


Belgians can take an example to this sign: all places are spelled in their own prime language. So Liège and Antwerpen on one sign. 

(Because Brussel is bilingual we in NL of course choose the Dutch name, which is also being continued on E314 and E40).


----------



## Penn's Woods

Belgium can't follow that example without changing their laws.

I'll stay out of the question of what the "prime language" ("primary," I'd say) of "Brussel" is, other than pointing out that "Brussel" is not English.


----------



## snowdog

julesstoop said:


> hno:
> There we go again being condescending and rude... Are you really unable to just be a tiny bit respectful to people that do not share your every opinion?


And it is not rude or downright hateful to close a beach for cars (the only one!) that was well used in favour of some bloody birds ? 


Road_UK said:


> That's why I asked if he is a Wilders voter. They normally have that same tunnel visioned look on things.


VVD, always...

On a cheerier note, only 2 more weeks for 130 instead of 120km/h .


----------



## Road_UK

Ok, that's the party I'd vote for if I was still living in Holland. I'm surprised actually...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Do we need the politics here? It's bad enough that transportation is so politicized.


----------



## MattN

snowdog said:


> And it is not rude or downright hateful to close a beach for cars (the only one!) that was well used in favour of some bloody birds ?
> 
> VVD, always...
> 
> On a cheerier note, only 2 more weeks for 130 instead of 120km/h .


Do you ever get out of your car when you go places? Try it on a beach, it's nice.


----------



## Suburbanist

I think maybe RWS should open the beach for car traffic, limited to 60 km/h, from November-March, 8h-16h, between Noordwijk and Zandvort and/or between Zandvoort (northern end) to IJmuiden.


----------



## julesstoop

ChrisZwolle said:


> Do we need the politics here? It's bad enough that transportation is so politicized.


I am sorry. But eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. So, if Snowdog behaves as uncivilized as he did in the remark which triggered me to address him, I will reply. And I'll try to (and actually did) refrain myself from political arguments. C'est le ton qui fait la musique.


----------



## julesstoop

snowdog said:


> And it is not rude or downright hateful to close a beach for cars (the only one!) that was well used in favour of some bloody birds ?


That's one way to look at it, but I'm sure some people would ask you in return what makes you think your pleasure is by any means more worthwhile or important than the life of a bird. Not necessarily my opinion, but imho it is as valid an opinion as yours. In this case I assume our democracy did it's job. And sorry, you apparently lost.


----------



## Slagathor

snowdog said:


> 1: Be a boring old fart... ( imho) Is the only rule that descibes them all .


So in your mind, leaving your trash behind on the beach when you leave is the definition of fun?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Rotterdamsebaan, Den Haag*

The national government and three municipalities have reached an agreement about the alignment of financing of the _Rotterdamsebaan_, a new 2x2 road from the Ypenburg motorway interchange into the Den Haag central business district. It involves a 2.1 kilometer tunnel. The costs are € 565 million, excluding VAT. It will not be a motorway, traffic signals will remain underneath the Ypenburg interchange to restrict traffic flow into the CBD.


----------



## Godius

*Rest area Kruisoord (A7)*

Verzorgingsplaats Kruisoord

1.










2.


----------



## Wilhem275

Where they having a rest too? :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Rotterdamsebaan, Den Haag*

Detailed plan of the _Rotterdamsebaan_.


Rotterdamsebaan 21-08-2012 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> It involves a 2.1 kilometer tunnel. The costs are € 565 million, excluding VAT.


Thats bananas. How long is the whole section, 4 km? Those are really high costs.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The soil is not really cooperative in this area. I suspect this tunnel will be substantially harder to construct than the Hubertus Tunnel which is bored in sandy soils. The € 565 million price tag also includes the upgrade of several other connecting streets in the area (not on the map). It will be a twin-tube bored tunnel.


----------



## Surel

^^Wouldnt be then better variant (cheaper?) cut and cover on the Haagweg? Nah, as I look at the map, it wouldnt be that simple there...


----------



## zsmg

The last time the The Hague build a tunnel it took them years to complete (the one downtown) I hope this one won't take as long. ;P


----------



## ChrisZwolle

2014 - 2019 is given as the construction period. Which is fairly long by Dutch standards, similar to the new A2-tunnel in Maastricht.


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> Detailed plan of the _Rotterdamsebaan_.
> 
> 
> Rotterdamsebaan 21-08-2012 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


The connection to the A13 looks to be an intersection, maybe with traffic lights? That does not look like the most efficient way to handle the traffic. Maybe a special lane to turn right coming from Rotterdam would be a wise solution.


----------



## keokiracer

^^ They don't want that. It would generate too much traffic on the newly built route. The traffic lights will stay the way they are.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are also plans to grade-separate several other routes into the urban area.

Around 2020, there will be 5 grade-separated routes into Den Haag;

* N211: 2x3 
* Prinses Beatrixlaan: 2x2
* Rotterdamsebaan: 2x2
* Utrechtsebaan (A12): 2x3/2x2
* N14: 2x2

This will substantially improve access to and from Den Haag, which is by far the most underserved large city of the Netherlands today. The burden on the Utrechtsebaan (A12) is too heavy. 

They also explored the option of a toll tunnel along the coast to connect N211 with N14, but it was found unfeasible.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Maastricht double-deck tunnel*

New aerial photos of the A2 double-deck tunnel in Maastricht.


----------



## Road_UK

keokiracer said:


> ^^ They don't want that. It would generate too much traffic on the newly built route. The traffic lights will stay the way they are.


How can an improvement generate more traffic? I have never understood that logic. If people want to travel from A to B they will at all costs...


----------



## Wilhem275

It's a problem of choices:
- there may be people who already travel from A to B using others routes or vehicles, and who may prefer the new improved link;
- there may be other people who today avoid travelling from A to B because they don't find it convenient, but might begin doing it if the new link satisfies them.

These are the two major market shares you may get when improving the offer of something.


----------



## zsmg

ChrisZwolle said:


> There are also plans to grade-separate several other routes into the urban area.
> 
> Around 2020, there will be 5 grade-separated routes into Den Haag;
> 
> * N211: 2x3
> * Prinses Beatrixlaan: 2x2
> * Rotterdamsebaan: 2x2
> * Utrechtsebaan (A12): 2x3/2x2
> * N14: 2x2


It's shocking to see that half of these routes are fairly recent: N211 and N14, so before that The Hague only had two major access points. 
Still I'm curious to know how they're planning to grade separate Prinses Beatrixlaan it goes right through a commercial area.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Road_UK said:


> How can an improvement generate more traffic? I have never understood that logic. If people want to travel from A to B they will at all costs...


It will create a shift from other streets and not in the least from A12 Utrechtsebaan. The new extension cannot handle all that traffic, especially the intersection where it will end. Distribution instead of concentration of traffic is the key here.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2, A12, A27 & A28: Utrecht metro area*

I made a photo tour of several motorways in the Utrecht metropolitan area yesterday. 

Here's an excerpt;

1. A12 at Harmelen.

A12 Harmelen-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

2. Harmelen

A12 Harmelen-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

3. Utrecht in the distance.

A12 Harmelen-9 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

4. Pretty heavy traffic for 12:30 hrs.

A12 Harmelen-12 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

5. A12 at Woerden.

A12 Woerden-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

6. Trucking two lanes wide.

A12 Woerden-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

7. A27 at Nieuwegein.

A27 Nieuwegein-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

8. Shoulder running.

A27 Nieuwegein-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

9. A2 at the Everdingen motorway interchange.

A2 Autenasekade-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

10. Tapering traffic.

A2 Autenasekade-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

11. 130 km/h

A2 Autenasekade-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

12. A27 at the Everdingen motorway interchange.

A27 Bolgerijsekade-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

13. 

A27 Achterkade-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

14. A28 just east of Utrecht.

A28 De Uithof-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

15. Utrecht skyline.

A28 De Uithof-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

16. Free flow around Utrecht.

A28 De Uithof-8 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## mappero

Ok, that's why I can see a lots of new (still covered by foil) sign along A67 in between Belgium border and Eindhoven. I thought they want increase speed limit, but I guess from 1st of Sept will go way around.
Will be 120 km/h limit still in power on A67 on this mentioned part?


----------



## keokiracer

Check it out for yourself


----------



## mappero

^^ Thanks, great info


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N261 Waalwijk - Tilburg*

The official start of the N261 Waalwijk - Tilburg project was yesterday. Actual construction will begin mid-2013, it will now enter the design and prepatory phase.

The N261 is currently a 4-lane divided highway with several traffic signals, and a small part has motorway status and is numbered A261. All intersections will be replaced by grade-separated junctions, including an interchange with the A59 motorway. 

The speed limit on the entire route will be 100 km/h, which means a small portion of A261 will be downgraded. It is likely that the A261 will lose motorway status. It is still one of the best provincial highway projects currently going on.

The new N261 will be completed in 2015. It serves the Efteling amusement park, which is the second largest/busiest theme park in western Europe after Disneyland Paris, according to the owner.


N261 Waalwijk - Tilburg plan by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## MattiG

ChrisZwolle said:


> The N261 is currently a 4-lane divided highway with several traffic signals, and a small part has motorway status and is numbered A261. All intersections will be replaced by grade-separated junctions, including an interchange with the A59 motorway.


What is the idea of the A59/N261 junction to not have direct N-S and S-N connections but through roundabouts and loop ramps? Or did I misunderstand something?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You understood it correctly. There is only an industrial area north of this interchange, after that you hit the Maas River (Meuse), so there is no through traffic to the north. A cloverleaf doesn't fit there, because they need parallel (frontage) roads to serve the city of Waalwijk. 

A59 is a bit weird. It was originally constructed as a two-lane expressway, which was later doubled to a motorway. Which is also why A59 has so many exits compared to other motorways.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Questions/comments on this photo:



ChrisZwolle said:


> 12. A27 at the Everdingen motorway interchange.
> 
> A27 Bolgerijsekade-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


What's the "4" in a box?

The radio frequencies are a nice touch: but is that general information on the frequencies in that area for major national channels, or where to tune in that area for traffic?


----------



## keokiracer

^^ the 4 is a detour route, with the new signs (NBA) being implemented these routes will most likely disappear.


----------



## Suburbanist

Local road that connects Marken to the continent.


----------



## Suburbanist

Old sign in Amsterdam (using _y_ as substitute for _ij_).


----------



## Suburbanist

Annoying traffic restriction in Volendam. You can't get through the city with your car because of bollards


----------



## Road_UK

I say demolish a large part of the centre of Volendam and build a few new expressways. Motorways would be better.


----------



## Zagor666

I found some old pictures from a Holland Tour 2002 :cheers:

Makkum - Laaksum 





Enkhuizen - Den Oever 



Almere - Lelystad 



Lelystad - Enkhuizen :banana:


----------



## Road_UK

You've been in Makkum, have you been in Workum as well?


----------



## Zagor666

Road_UK said:


> You've been in Makkum, have you been in Workum as well?


I can´t remember,that was 10 years ago :colgate:but i have writen down this tour,if you say me where Workum exactly is i can have a look but i am sure i will not remember of any detail cause i drived so many tours,sometimes i dont remember where exactly i was last year :colgate:

The route was : Zurich-Makkum-Workum-Stavoren-Oudermirdum-Lemmer-Friese Hoek-Rotterdamse Hoek-Urk-Lelystad Noord


----------



## Road_UK

From Makkum follow the coastline south for about 12 km, and there is Workum. I am raised and have lived everywhere, but I consider Workum as my hometown. Even though I haven't been there in a long time. It's one of the most beautiful towns in the northern provinces.


----------



## Suburbanist

Road_UK said:


> I say demolish a large part of the centre of Volendam and build a few new expressways. Motorways would be better.


No need for that, but no need for banning cars either.


----------



## snowdog

Suburbanist said:


> No need for that, but no need for banning cars either.


He was being sarcastic... :cheers:

I agree with you, I dislike old towns&villages with car free zones/not designed for cars.


----------



## mappero

^^ However world follows another way... It's so nice to get off the car and walk a little bit and have coffee or beer in calm, vehicles free zone of the city/village. Just sit down, relax, look around and admire the old buildings, views, etc...
Do you know, researched was done that people from small cities and rural area they love their cars and they do everything to show their neighbors how wealthy they are by buying and own expensive, mostly big (suv or so) cars...


----------



## Road_UK

^^ You are my new best friend.


----------



## Penn's Woods

snowdog said:


> He was being sarcastic... :cheers:
> 
> I agree with you, I dislike old towns&villages with car free zones/not designed for cars.


Those medieval people were such boneheads not to anticipate your needs!


----------



## Palance

mappero said:


> It's so nice to get off the car and walk a little bit and have coffee or beer in calm, vehicles free zone of the city/village. Just sit down, relax, look around and admire the old buildings, views, etc...


However, too many people are lazy and want their car parked exactly in front of the spot where they have to be. And then they are upset beacause they seem to be not the only one. Somehow those people intend to forget that such villages do not have the space for all those cars.

Indeed, such villages are very nice for a good walk and people should be proud of the heritage of those old villages instead of complaining about a 5 minute walk.


----------



## Palance

Penn's Woods said:


> Those medieval people were such boneheads not to anticipate your needs!


You are right. Imaginable that people from centuries ago did not think about cars in these times.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Actually pre-automobile roads already needed to be wider to accommodate horse carts. That is why the traditional grid network in U.S. cities and towns already had wide streets decades before the automobile was invented. Many of the wide boulevards in Paris were constructed before the 1900s.


----------



## Road_UK

Palance said:


> However, too many people are lazy and want their car parked exactly in front of the spot where they have to be. And then they are upset beacause they seem to be not the only one. Somehow those people intend to forget that such villages do not have the space for all those cars.
> 
> Indeed, such villages are very nice for a good walk and people should be proud of the heritage of those old villages instead of complaining about a 5 minute walk.


You are also my new best friend.


----------



## xrtn2

>


The red number road is a national route, and the green number is a local route ?


----------



## keokiracer

^^ Red number is indeed a national route, green number is a European Route.
E25 runs from Hoek van Holland (near Rotterdam, The Netherlands) towards Palermo (Italy)

E30 runs from Cork (Ireland) to Omsk (Russia).


----------



## xrtn2

keokiracer said:


> ^^ Red number is indeed a national route, green number is a European Route.
> E25 runs from Hoek van Holland (near Rotterdam, The Netherlands) towards Palermo (Italy)
> 
> E30 runs from Cork (Ireland) to Omsk (Russia).


Really very interesting this european numbering.

Thanks Keokiracerkay:kay:


----------



## italystf

ChrisZwolle said:


> Actually pre-automobile roads already needed to be wider to accommodate horse carts. That is why the traditional grid network in U.S. cities and towns already had wide streets decades before the automobile was invented. Many of the wide boulevards in Paris were constructed before the 1900s.


I read that the first one way streets were issued in London in the XVII century.


----------



## Suburbanist

Let me elaborate further.

I'd not have a problem with a small pedestrianized area with parking on the fringes that you could use (preferably multi-story and protected). That is absolutely fine.

I do have issues, however, with creating privileges like in Volendam, where if you are lucky dweller of the place you get an electronic transmitter that open the bollard for you, whereas if you are a visitor - though luck, park and walk 1200m.

Except for things like emergency vehicles or the likes, residence in a PUBLIC street shouldn't entice you special rights to drive there at the expense of everybody else. Else, it becomes essentially NIMBYism enshrined in law.

Ditto goes for the many instances where they put signs or bollards to prevent drivers using "alternative routes" through small roads to avoid highway congestion in NL.


----------



## Road_UK

They are called traffic calming areas. There is nothing with that.


----------



## Zagor666

keokiracer said:


> ^^ Red number is indeed a national route, green number is a European Route.
> E25 runs from Hoek van Holland (near Rotterdam, The Netherlands) towards Palermo (Italy)
> 
> E30 runs from Cork (Ireland) to Omsk (Russia).


Omsk always reminds me on a Monty Python sketch from the episode cycling tour in Cornwall :lol:


----------



## Alqaszar

Penn's Woods said:


> The radio frequencies are a nice touch: but is that general information on the frequencies in that area for major national channels, or where to tune in that area for traffic?


Both are public channels, Radio 1 is nationwide, while Radio M covers the Utrecht province. But many of the radio stations would cover traffic information in the Netherlands.

Radio frequencies have been signposted in other European countries, too. The Netherlands kept that up while others -- like Germany, for example -- have discontinued that, claiming that the RDS function of the car radios which can tune to traffic news autimatically is sufficient.


----------



## Suburbanist

Road_UK said:


> They are called traffic calming areas. There is nothing with that.


There is something different between slowing down a road or downgrading to discourage traffic it and forbidding altogether non-resident traffic.

But Italy is a much worse offender with its totalitarian ZTLs. That means I will never be able to drive around the Colosseum in Roma or in other cool spots (even if I'd put up with lots of traffic and even urban tolls).


----------



## Penn's Woods

Suburbanist said:


> Let me elaborate further.
> 
> I'd not have a problem with a small pedestrianized area with parking on the fringes that you could use (preferably multi-story and protected). That is absolutely fine.
> 
> I do have issues, however, with creating privileges like in Volendam, where if you are lucky dweller of the place you get an electronic transmitter that open the bollard for you, whereas if you are a visitor - though luck, park and walk 1200m.
> 
> Except for things like emergency vehicles or the likes, residence in a PUBLIC street shouldn't entice you special rights to drive there at the expense of everybody else. Else, it becomes essentially NIMBYism enshrined in law.
> 
> Ditto goes for the many instances where they put signs or bollards to prevent drivers using "alternative routes" through small roads to avoid highway congestion in NL.


I'm not familiar with Volendam (I think I know where it is...), but I gather it's one of those old, tiny villages where people wear klompen for tourists?

If a place in fact has only a finite capacity for cars - think a flatter Mont-Saint-Michel* - so that the choice really is between permitting only residents to drive and not permitting cars at all, what would you do?

*I'm assuming Mont-Saint-Michel (where I have been) is completely car-free, partly because it's so steep. I may be mistaken. But if it were flat, so that driving was physically possible, but conditions were otherwise the same - a small island completely cut off at high tide that gets more tourists than any place else in France except Versailles - they'd still need to take steps you'd find draconian to make it possible for residents to be able to move at all. You do understand that there are some places that are just like that?


----------



## Penn's Woods

American example:

http://historicharpersferry.com/directions.php

It looks as if cars aren't completely forbidden, but my memory is that, at least if you're approaching from the west, you're forcibly diverted into a National Park Service lot (free when I was there, I think) and then bused in.


----------



## Suburbanist

This is (historical) Volendam on Google Maps http://goo.gl/maps/HD3tg

Recently, this very sector has been subject to a bizarre regulation. There is only one outlet left for this **** road (here).

If you are not a resident on one of the 120-160 (guesstimate) cute houses of the old ****, you can only enter his road the between minutes 0-10 and 30-40 of each hours during daytime (nighttime is open as a normal narrow road). There are new bollards and traffic lights controlling that. The intention is in part to avoid traffic jams. 

I wouldn't mind if they transformed the whole road in a purely pedestrianized sector with all houses converted to touristic-related purposes only (shops, restaurants, museums). But I find strange non-touristic business such as pharmacies, a legal office, one of the city administrative buildings all keep using these houses for non-touristic purposes while only residents can keep the privilege to drive there.


----------



## italystf

Suburbanist said:


> This is (historical) Volendam on Google Maps http://goo.gl/maps/HD3tg
> 
> Recently, this very sector has been subject to a bizarre regulation. There is only one outlet left for this **** road (here).
> 
> If you are not a resident on one of the 120-160 (guesstimate) cute houses of the old ****, you can only enter his road the between minutes 0-10 and 30-40 of each hours during daytime (nighttime is open as a normal narrow road). There are new bollards and traffic lights controlling that. The intention is in part to avoid traffic jams.


I don't like those confusing traffic regulations with time limitation but I agree that medieval centers are better car-free because they aren't made for cars. I don't think that tourists would like plenty of cars stucked in the narrow alleys of Siena, Matera or Le Cinque Terre. Or a constant traffic jam around the Colosseum or the Duomo in Milan from 7 a.m. to 11 p.m.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Has anyone else noticed that this thread is four times as long as the French one?


----------



## Road_UK

Yes, well our supervisor is Dutch and keeps this thread moving. CEO is Dutch as well I think...


----------



## Nexis

Please tell me theres an alt crossing nearby , 24 minutes is insane...


----------



## keokiracer

There's another (wider) bridge about a kilometer north. Google Maps

And on top of that, this doesn't happen everyday, it was an event.


----------



## Suburbanist

This is much worse, one of the most heavily trafficked highways in the country, no alternate for several kms


----------



## snowdog

Haha, the biker first accelerating, being followed by that copper on the collector lanes .
Poor biker, no doubt the copper has ****ed him in the *** despite him really endangering nobody but himself for the next 3-4 km's...


----------



## Road_UK

Endangering yourself in traffic is an offence as well, hence the fact that everyone has to wear seatbelts.


----------



## Pannyers

Nexis said:


> Please tell me theres an alt crossing nearby , 24 minutes is insane...


Nice, I almost could see my workplace, just behind the trees on the right.


----------



## Palance

Pictures of the Zeelandbrug (Location: https://maps.google.nl/?ll=51.614552,3.89019&spn=0.043863,0.077162&t=h&z=14)


----------



## Agnette

ChrisZwolle said:


> Road widenings...


... and price of fuel growing... :sad2:


----------



## Surel

^^ If the driven kms are at all time highs (thus the car usage increased) and the congestion declined even so, the widenings are 100 % responsible for the congestion declines.

If you would want to make the high price of fuel responsible, you would have to first see lower car usage.


----------



## Road_UK

What about bad weather? I hear the summer has been really crap in Holland, with even people turning to the streets to demand better weather. Surely, people are more likely to stay at home...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Most beach-bound traffic congestion is on non-motorways and is usually not included in the statistics. The only motorway that sees a surge in holiday traffic is A58 in Zeeland.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Surel said:


> ^^ If the driven kms are at all time highs (thus the car usage increased) and the congestion declined even so, the widenings are 100 % responsible for the congestion declines.
> 
> If you would want to make the high price of fuel responsible, you would have to first see lower car usage.


But have there really been enough widenings in the last year to have that sort of an impact?


----------



## Penn's Woods

Road_UK said:


> ...people turning to the streets to demand better weather....


What were they smoking that made that seem like a good idea?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Penn's Woods said:


> But have there really been enough widenings in the last year to have that sort of an impact?


Definitely. It's too big to make a list, but there have been many widenings in the past 3 years. Don't forget that even a short widening may result in a massive drop in traffic congestion.

For instance, after about 10 km of A2 south of Zaltbommel was widened from 2x2 to 2x3 lanes, traffic congestion at that point declined by 95%. This was the #1 traffic congestion spot in '09. Most recent road widenings resulted in a 90 - 99% decline in traffic congestion at those locations.

The top 10 worst bottlenecks has changed dramatically in the last 3 years.


----------



## Palance

Some pictures of this afternoon. This is the A15 near Barendrecht (south part of the Rotterdam Ring) which is being widened. A part should be used from today, but the opening of that part has been postponed until further notice.


----------



## zsmg

Antwerpen is going to be signed from Rotterdam? That's new right?


----------



## keokiracer

^^ Yes, that's new.


----------



## zsmg

Figured as much I always thought it was amusing that Rotterdam was signed in Antwerpen but not the other way around.


----------



## Road_UK

Will they signpost Antwerpen-city via Breda as well? Or only the ports of Antwerp via Bergen op Zoom..? Because from Antwerp, Rotterdam is signposted either via Breda or Bergen.


----------



## Slagathor

Frick they put "havens" via Bergen op Zoom... That brings all the trucks down the route I usually take. hno:


----------



## Deadeye Reloaded

ChrisZwolle said:


>


Another nice picture.


----------



## Koesj

Concerning road expansion: it's been ongoing and should continue even further in the coming years. It has definitely been the main drive in reducing congestion.

Light blue: 2 lanes per direction, Dark blue: 3, Orange: 4 or more.


----------



## keokiracer

^^ Well, I hope that somewhere in 2025 the A27 widening Lunetten - Hooipolder is completed too


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A12 also has 2x4 lanes from Gouda to Utrecht.


----------



## keokiracer

- A9 Castricum - Beverwijk currently already has 2x3.
- The Coentunnel will have more than 4 lanes (9 lanes total) (opening next year)
- how about the A1 Eemnes - Muiderberg? Will that take till after 2025?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A7 Hoorn - Den Oever*

Video #1 of today: the northbound A7 between Hoorn and Den Oever. A very nice and quiet motorway. This is the only motorway section in Noord-Holland province with low traffic.


----------



## Road_UK

Yes, traveling from Amsterdam to Friesland it always gets nice and quiet after Hoorn. Did you stop off in Sneek to say hi to my nan? What do you think of the new ringroad?


----------



## -Pino-

Wilhem275 said:


> - they should be placed on the right side barrier... if you're stopped in the emergency lane, reading small signs on the median can be hard;
> - the format is not 14,7 but 14 - VII. Who the hell uses roman numbers today?


You need a really wide road or poor eyes if you cannot read an Italian marker in the median when standing still on the shoulder. Mind you, I can read them when passing at speed. But the point is fair that one marker in the median appears to save material, yet does not necessarily in the sense that you can only go so far in downscaling the markers.

As to the Italian numbering format, I can only guess. Possibly related to the way Roman numerals are sometimes used in dates too (15 IV rather than 15.04 for 15 April): it is then believed that two numbering formats make easier reading. In the two-line format employed on the Italian markers, it might indeed be argued that Arab and Roman numerals below one another improve the legibility of both. But the difference is small at best, plus you wonder why they did not pick a one-line format in the first place.


----------



## Suburbanist

I read in a blog (whose author blocked commenting me) a long misinformed post about Netherlands transportation.

They used some other picture of A2 removal to say how the great city of Utrecht, having adopted traffic calming and narrowed many roads downtown in the late 1970s and 1980s, is now even removing an entire freeway altogether to expand some sustainable neighborhood.

Little did the American fanboi knew about how much roadwork has been going on around UTrecht


----------



## keokiracer

Can you link to the blog?


----------



## aswnl

Yes, I also would like to see for myself what kind of fool would write utterly nonsense like that...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Transportation minister Schultz officially inaugurated the A12 Utrecht - Veenendaal widneing today.


----------



## woutero

Suburbanist said:


> I read in a blog (whose author blocked commenting me) a long misinformed post about Netherlands transportation.
> 
> They used some other picture of A2 removal to say how the great city of Utrecht, having adopted traffic calming and narrowed many roads downtown in the late 1970s and 1980s, is now even removing an entire freeway altogether to expand some sustainable neighborhood.
> 
> Little did the American fanboi knew about how much roadwork has been going on around UTrecht


Don't you think he might have been talking about the removal of the "Catharijnesingel-freeway" in the center of Utrecht? This 1km stretch of freeway is being removed, and restored as a canal. It will indeed make a part of Utrecht's center more attractive.

That's this part (photo), which is here (map):


----------



## Road_UK

Can't wait for the reply...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Developments like that only encourage more dispersion.


----------



## snowdog

More attractive to have some stinky water ? Okay, if you say so...

In my opinion Cockoo, but ah well, I don't live in Utrecht luckily anyhow, nor do I have any reason to go there.

ROTTUURDAAAAAAM, KEN JE DAT NIET HOREN DAN?


----------



## Wilhem275

Melanie is for sure the secret love dream of all road junkies


----------



## Suburbanist

Netherlands has so many canals, and so does Utrecht, I actually favor burying some canals to make room for extra urban avenues (depressed/entrenched), and turning the upper areas in pedestrian-only plazas (so you get a 2-level street of sorts).


----------



## Suburbanist

Can anyone identify the 2 film shooting locations on the movie below


----------



## Suburbanist

Short film about VMS deployment in 1982


----------



## -Pino-

Suburbanist said:


> Netherlands has so many canals, and so does Utrecht, I actually favor burying some canals to make room for extra urban avenues (depressed/entrenched), and turning the upper areas in pedestrian-only plazas (so you get a 2-level street of sorts).


Not every canal is the same. You've got the type of picture-perfect canal that tourists come over for (e.g. Herengracht, Keizersgracht, Prinsengracht in Amsterdam; Oude Gracht in Utrecht; Oude Delft in Delft) and you've got the canals that have nothing to do with that classical picture. If you look at redevelopment, you need to distinguish accordingly. I do not think that it is realistic to pursue the conversion of some 19th century "singel" at the fringe of the city centre (e.g. Nieuwe Herengracht in Amsterdam) into an area that could ever be attractive for pedestrians. On the other hand, I do not think that many classical canals could ever be turned into something attractive for motorists; too narrow. In both cases, of course, you'll end up with the usual discussions on loss of character, pollution issues for the neighbourhood etc.

I don't think that any project should be excluded upfront. After all, how many urban roads used to be a "singel" and where would Amsterdam be without the
Vijzelgracht being buried? So any specific project would need to be considered at its merits. In Amsterdam, large parts of the s100 are running parallel to canals; the non-pittoresque type of canal. Burying part of those canals would permit a much better access to the city centre, and I doubt whether it would really adversely affect the local environment if they turned the s100 into an entrnched urban boulevard with a street level low on traffic. But this is Amsterdam, such a project won't fly until pigs can do so.


----------



## Road_UK

Suburbanist said:


> Netherlands has so many canals, and so does Utrecht, I actually favor burying some canals to make room for extra urban avenues (depressed/entrenched), and turning the upper areas in pedestrian-only plazas (so you get a 2-level street of sorts).


What about the canals in central Amsterdam?


----------



## keokiracer

Suburbanist said:


> Can anyone identify the 2 film shooting locations on the movie below


I've got 1 for you:

N344 near Apeldoorn

More old videos of Dutch roads can be found here :cheers:


----------



## woutero

@suburbanist: I was not asking about your opinion about such projects (I really didn't have to ask ), but whether or not this "American fanboi" might have been talking about a different project, thus being less misinformed.

I will bite and respond though: you can argue whether it is a good investment to remove roadspace in favor of a canal, but this piece of road was part of a 1958 plan for the city of Utrecht to fill in the entire canal ring/moat to make space for traffic, combined with considerable demolition in the medieval city center to make space for new roads. This 1km stretch was the only part of that plan that got built, going from a regular city street to another regular city street. It didn't serve a big traffic purpose.

I am not against cars, and think it's good that Utrecht is getting a lot more road capacity on its freeways, and some of the roads into the city, but I can't blame the people of Utrecht for preferring their very beautiful innercity to be like this (Catharijnesingel at the southern end of the 'freeway' stretch):









Rather than this (the part that is being demolished):


----------



## temlin

ChrisZwolle said:


> Transportation minister Schultz officially inaugurated the A12 Utrecht - Veenendaal widneing today.


Love it :lovethem:


----------



## Suburbanist

woutero said:


> I am not against cars, and think it's good that Utrecht is getting a lot more road capacity on its freeways, and some of the roads into the city, but I can't blame the people of Utrecht for preferring their very beautiful innercity to be like this (Catharijnesingel at the southern end of the 'freeway' stretch):
> 
> 
> Rather than this (the part that is being demolished):


They should have demolished those buildings near the canal and built higher modern towers (more or less like they did in Eindhoven in a smaller scale or in Rotterdam in a much larger and awesome scale).


----------



## keokiracer

^^


Suburbanist said:


> I read in a blog (whose author blocked commenting me) a long misinformed post about Netherlands transportation.
> 
> They used some other picture of A2 removal to say how the great city of Utrecht, having adopted traffic calming and narrowed many roads downtown in the late 1970s and 1980s, is now even removing an entire freeway altogether to expand some sustainable neighborhood.
> 
> Little did the American fanboi knew about how much roadwork has been going on around UTrecht


Still no link? Can't find it anymore?


----------



## Suburbanist

keokiracer said:


> ^^
> Still no link? Can't find it anymore?


It was on CapNTransit... but he removed several posts about other countries (other than his native New York City, USA) and published this

EDIT: I actually looked in the "bio" of that blogger with more details. He started the blog when he witnessed a traffic accident in NEw York and vowed never to drive again and campaign for abolition of almost all urban car usage (it's on his own blog I linked).


----------



## Road_UK

Suburbanist said:


> They should have demolished those buildings near the canal and built higher modern towers (more or less like they did in Eindhoven in a smaller scale or in Rotterdam in a much larger and awesome scale).


You have just mentioned the two ugliest cities in the Netherlands. But you can't argue with taste I guess. Just want to remind you that we are in Europe, and not in the United States. Have you considered relocating?


----------



## -Pino-

Ugliness aside (can't argue with taste), I struggle to see why Utrecht needs the edge-of-citycentre freeway. You cannot say that Central Utrecht is driver's paradise, but the city centre's access is reasonable, much better than many other Dutch towns. So why the push to start a demolishing process and build a freeway. That's something you'd only advocate for the sake of freeways, if you don't care about anything other than the freeway.

By the way, Rotterdam and Eindhoven are not good examples. Eindhoven is largely a 20th century town as the town grew rather late. Rotterdam could make a new start after the Germans bombed town in 1940. And still I am not too impressed with the roads in that "new" area.


----------



## Suburbanist

I think the old cities in NL should be surrounded by urban expressways with partial grade-separation. They can even build lots of parking lots in this fringe to reduce traffic within the old area.

For instance, the avenue along the Slinge in Amsterdam should be converted into a depressed 2x2 expressway without grade crossings for through traffic (underpasses).


----------



## Road_UK

I believe these two cities represents everything that is wrong with Dutch post-war architecture. City centre in Eindhoven is nicer then Rotterdam though.


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ Rotterdam is just bigger:

- longer bridges over the rivers
- wider avenues with 2x2 lanes + wide sidewalks and bike paths
- a big river instead of a canal

It would be quite easy for Rotterdam to speed up urban traffic along 3 ridiculously 50km/h limited boulevards (increasing to 70 and building underpasses (= no visual intrusion at street level) to speed up access from A15 (south), A20 and A16

Some sectors that go through industrial areas could well do with elevated expressways.

But the Dutch city that lacks fast urban arteries most and a ring road is Apeldoorn. Groningen is not bad but they should carve more car lanes on its inner ring road and do like Maastricht (big underground garage in the central square).


----------



## Road_UK

Suburbanist said:


> I think the old cities in NL should be surrounded by urban expressways with partial grade-separation. They can even build lots of parking lots in this fringe to reduce traffic within the old area.
> 
> For instance, the avenue along the Slinge in Amsterdam should be converted into a depressed 2x2 expressway without grade crossings for through traffic (underpasses).


Credit to you that you are not suggesting that city and town centres should be demolished. Suburban Holland is a ugly as hell, but at least keep the pretty side of Dutch architecture in tact...

There are if course exceptions. Almere has some nice architecture, but there is also a new housing estate in Hoofddorp I like. But these are exceptions. Nothing else.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Ede - Grijsoord*

The Council of State has rejected the appeals against the record of decision to widen A12 between Ede and Grijsoord motorway interchange to 2x3 lanes. This mean there are no more obstacles to commence construction on this highly saturated motorway.

This section of A12 opened in 1956 and carries 88.000 vehicles per day on 2x2 lanes. The road widening will commence later this year or early 2013 and will be completed in late 2014 or 2015.


----------



## Paulie Walnuts

Suburbanist said:


> They should have demolished those buildings near the canal and built higher modern towers (more or less like they did in Eindhoven in a smaller scale or in Rotterdam in a much larger and awesome scale).


You mean the old ones? Are you mad?


----------



## Suburbanist

Paulie Walnuts said:


> You mean the old ones? Are you mad?


They are not old.

The Utrecht Tower is old, for instance. Or the central canals.

Those buildings are at most 140 years old. So they can be demolished in the name of progress and improved traffic flow. I do agree, though, only a larger fast urban expressway would make sufficient difference. They could even put massive parking lots around it and reduce car traffic on the inner old town/canal area.


----------



## Road_UK

Paulie Walnuts said:


> You mean the old ones? Are you mad?


Yes. He's raving mad.


----------



## Road_UK

Suburbanist said:


> They are not old.
> 
> The Utrecht Tower is old, for instance. Or the central canals.
> 
> Those buildings are at most 140 years old. So they can be demolished in the name of progress and improved traffic flow. I do agree, though, only a larger fast urban expressway would make sufficient difference. They could even put massive parking lots around it and reduce car traffic on the inner old town/canal area.


Are there people living there, in those buildings?


----------



## -Pino-

Suburbanist said:


> Those buildings are at most 140 years old. So they can be demolished in the name of progress and improved traffic flow.


Focus on improved traffic flow is fine, but it comes at a price. Even if there is no need to demolish monumental areas, it is a destruction of an area nonetheless and having the type of wide urban expressways that you have in mind impacts on many environmental / urban issues. Ignoring those is something that they did in the name of progress 50 years ago, but thankfully not in the 21st century.

As I mentioned, I do not believe that any urban project to create a better traffic flow should be excluded upfront, even where that project might result in burying canals or demolishing residential area. Except for a few areas only, pretty much everything that we have in Dutch cities is replacable. But because a larger number of issues needs to be weighed against "better traffic flow", you need to pick your battles. Your scribbles cannot be taken seriously without any specific and demonstrated upside. For your idea to bury the Singel in Amsterdam for starters, I fail to see the upside. The problem in Central Amsterdam is in its poor spokes and in the poor s100. Burying the Singel might bring something, but it would solve the least of our problems.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N305 widening*

The Zeewolde municipality published the zoning plan to upgrade the N305 to a 4-lane divided highway. It is currently a two-lane road with a speed limit of 100 km/h. The widened highway will not include grade-separation. The widening costs € 16.9 million and will be executed in 2013-2014. 

It is phase I of a plan to widen the N305 from A27 to N302 to a divided highway.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Suburbanist said:


> They are not old.
> 
> The Utrecht Tower is old, for instance. Or the central canals.
> 
> Those buildings are at most 140 years old. So they can be demolished in the name of progress and improved traffic flow. I do agree, though, only a larger fast urban expressway would make sufficient difference. They could even put massive parking lots around it and reduce car traffic on the inner old town/canal area.


What's currently located where those massive parking lots would be?


----------



## Road_UK

Penn's Woods said:


> What's currently located where those massive parking lots would be?


My uncles bedroom, my sisters bathroom, your cousins garden and the local chippy. And through the pub.


----------



## verreme

The Dutch vote today. What influence will the result of the elections have in road-related policies?


----------



## Road_UK

Whatever it is, left will blame right, and right will blame left.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Road_UK said:


> My uncles bedroom, my sisters bathroom, your cousins garden and the local chippy. And through the pub.


LOL.
Seriously, I'm having visions of a sanitized, artificial-feeling downtown frequented mostly by tourists surrounded by parking and cut off from the rest of its city, and I'm not sure that's a good thing.


----------



## Road_UK

It's total rubbish, this whole idea. It would mean a whole new design of a city, with entire communities being removed. They don't need that sort of thing anyway, most Dutch people go on their bikes to town. And for those who don't, existing multi-storey car parks do the jobs just fine.


----------



## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> (called 2x7 but it's 2+5+5+2).


:cheers: 

But what was the deal between Bilthoven and interchange Rijnsweerd. How wide is that going to become?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

2x4 lanes.


----------



## ElviS77

That's a bunch more lanes than when I lived in Utrecht ten years ago. Pretty impressive. How many lanes on the A28, BTW? 

On a very different note: I remember impressing my mother and her husband when I - only by looking at the map beforehand - took us straight back into Utrecht from the southeast after a 500+ km trip around the Netherlands...


----------



## Neverworld

Will the new area between Lunetten and Rijnsweerd northbound also feature grade separation? Right now it is a weave area, but with high traffic flow and three lanes coming from the A12 and three from the A27, it is often a big mess (partly because people want to change lanes at the very beginning of the intersection, partly because lorries coming from the A12 have to move 4 lanes to get on the A27).

The A28 from Utrecht to Amersfoort will feature 2x3 lanes, highly needed. Apart from the A2 between Utrecht and Amsterdam (because of low enforced speed limits), I think it is the most annoying piece of motorway in the Netherlands, construction started years too late on that stretch, but it will be better in the near future luckily.


----------



## keokiracer

^^ Here are some pics that might help. All traffic will be sorted per direction at both interchanges, no more weaving.

interchange Lunetten:









Interchange Rijnsweerd:











ElviS77 said:


> How many lanes on the A28, BTW?


2x3


----------



## woutero

So effectively Interchanges Rijnsweerd and Lunetten are becoming one interchange? 

From A28 going west, you decide at interchange Rijnsweerd whether to take the A27 South or the A12 West. 

From the A27 going north you already decide at Lunetten whether to take the A27 north or the A28 east.

Coming from the A28:
- right lanes: To A27 north (Almere) and A28 west (Utrecht-centrum)
- middle lanes: To A27 south (Breda) and A12 east (Arnhem)
- left lanes: To A12 west (The Hague/Rotterdam)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's right. It's like the two Ridderkerk interchanges (which is even wider at 16 lanes in between).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This is the current layout of the A27.


A27 Amelisweerd 30-06-2012-7 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

This concrete depression will be widened by 15 meters on either side. Some suggested to widen it to six lanes each way (2+4+4+2) to spare the Amelisweerd natural area. However, design standards have a minimum length between a merge and a lane reduction, which means that this area would need to be widened by 15 meters. Widening it to 12 instead of 14 lanes only saves 0,16 hectare of right-of-way. Additionally 14 lanes performs much better from a traffic engineering point of view because the adjoining sections also merge to and from 14 lanes in total, which means 12 lanes is basically a future bottleneck. Therefor, a widening to 14 lanes makes most sense.

It's astounding if you consider the A27 only exists since 1986. It was built with 2x4 lanes, and widened to 4+6 lanes in 2012 as a temporary solution. The A27 cuts through the Amelisweerd estate with a natural area on the east side of Utrecht. There were a lot of ecologists and environmentalists protesting against construction, the riot police had to clear out the woods before they could cut down the trees.

So widening the right-of-way by 15 meters on either side will induce new opposition. However, the widening will also consist of a very large ecoduct (250 meters) on top of the motorway. The 15 meters of forest to be cut is a small sacrifice for a much better end result. But I'm afraid some people will not look further than cutting the trees.


----------



## Neverworld

^^ Thanks for the answers!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Leiden*

Two aerial photos of the A4 widening at Leiden. The A4 will be widened to 2x3 lanes with space for 2x5 lanes. Six lanes are currently already in use in one aquaduct, the second will be constructed until 2014.


----------



## MattN

Was that a mistake, only it looks like it's 2x3 already?


----------



## keokiracer

It is, but the roadworks aren't completed yet. They lead the 2x3 highway through 1 part of the aqueduct, so they have plenty of room to build the other part of the aqueduct. After the 2nd part of the aqueduct is built, the road will probably be closed for a weekend to change some markings and then the road will open with 3 lanes per part of the aqueduct. The lanes you see are narrower than usual. Only to fit 2x3 into 1 tube safely.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, it's temporary already 2x3 lanes, but with no shoulders and narrow lanes.

This location originally featured a drawbridge with 2x2 lanes and no shoulders. It was the worst bottleneck in the Netherlands. The widening of A4 began in 2010 by constructing the first aquaduct under the Oude Rijn River (barely visible in the distance). These new aquaducts (two of them) have space for 2x5 lanes. They have completed one aquaduct so far, already with a temporary six-lane setup.

The second aquaduct will be completed in 2014. After that traffic flows with 2x3 lanes in two parallel aquaducts. This means the A4 can later be expanded to 2x5 lanes without having to do any construction here. 

The whole A4-corridor will likely feature at least 2x5 lanes in the future. A portion of A4 is currently being widened to 14 lanes (2+5+5+2) at Hoofddorp, which could also be extended south to the Burgerveen Interchange (A4/A44).

This photo is about 5 kilometers north of the photos in the posts above. The high-speed rail crosses the A4 motorway. As you can see, there is also space for 2x5 lanes.


----------



## MattN

Ah I see, thanks!


----------



## domtoren

*A2*

near Maarssenbroek (northern suburb of Utrecht)



















Disappearance of the last remains of the old A2 next to the tunnel at Leidsche Rijn (as of today September 27, 2012)
Perhaps it is THIS this passage refers to and NOT Catharijnesingel!
_Empezado por Suburbanist 
I read in a blog (whose author blocked commenting me) a long misinformed post about Netherlands transportation.

They used some other picture of A2 removal to say how the great city of Utrecht, having adopted traffic calming and narrowed many roads downtown in the late 1970s and 1980s, is now even removing an entire freeway altogether to expand some sustainable neighborhood.

Little did the American fanboi knew about how much roadwork has been going on around UTrecht _


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice photos. That is 60-year old concrete from the original 2x2 A2, constructed in 1952-1953.


----------



## keber

It is interesting that widening from 2+2 already considers widening to 5+5. This is pretty steep thing, is traffic growth really that high to justify extra cost?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The widening is at least 30 years overdue. The 2x2 section carried 108.000 vehicles per day and can easily grow to 160.000 vehicles within the next 10 years due to rerouting of traffic and a large-scale new development west of Leiden.

This particular project was battled by environmentalists which delayed it several times, leading to public outcry, even from people living in the area next to the motorway. So when they widened it, they thought "we better do it right at once", but more than 2x3 was politically not feasible at the time. The rest of A4 already has a right-of-way for 10 lanes in most places, so they can easily widen it at low cost and little to no impact on the surrounding area.


----------



## sotonsteve

Impressive motorway widening in a country that does not seem to stop improving its roads at the moment. In comparison, in the UK we are going to see a couple of motorways widened soon by literally converting the shoulder into a permanent traffic lane and having no shoulders at all.

Has there been any debate about motorway lighting in the Netherlands? The Netherlands does have a lot of motorway lighting, including in relatively rural areas with straight sections and few junctions, although it is lower power than in the UK. Is the policy firmly to continue lighting up motorways, or are midnight-0500 or permanent switch offs planned?


----------



## Slagathor

Rijkswaterstaat is putting up LEDs. The energy savings are such (around 50%) that the amount of lights placed around the country are not currently subject to debate (as far as I know). According to this source, the country has about 1000km of lit motorway.


----------



## Neverworld

sotonsteve said:


> Impressive motorway widening in a country that does not seem to stop improving its roads at the moment. In comparison, in the UK we are going to see a couple of motorways widened soon by literally converting the shoulder into a permanent traffic lane and having no shoulders at all.
> 
> Has there been any debate about motorway lighting in the Netherlands? The Netherlands does have a lot of motorway lighting, including in relatively rural areas with straight sections and few junctions, although it is lower power than in the UK. Is the policy firmly to continue lighting up motorways, or are midnight-0500 or permanent switch offs planned?


On key locations (interchanges, etc.) there will always be motorway lightning at night. I actually don't know the policy on normal stretches of motorway, but apparently motorway lightning will be cut back to cut costs. Near natural parks and places like that, there is no motorway lightning (A50 between Arnhem and Apeldoorn for example, although I don't know if they light the road when shoulder running is open at night. Yes, we have it too).

Actually, it's the first time since a very long time that we're seeing major road widening again in the Netherlands. Between the beginning of the '90s and the mid '00s, not a single decision was made, apart from some shoulder runnings. Luckily, the tide began to turn just before the financial crisis became a government and euro crisis, otherwise we would still be in a gridlock.


----------



## keokiracer

Neverworld said:


> I actually don't know the policy on normal stretches of motorway, but apparently motorway lightning will be cut back to cut costs.


If I remember correctly: lights off on busy roads from 23:00 to 05:00, on quieter roads from 21:00 to 05:00. Near exits and interchanges lights will remain on.



Neverworld said:


> when shoulder running is open at night. Yes, we have it too).


Yeah, we were the first country with shoulder running: A28 Amersfoort - Utrecht between Den Dolder and Utrecht-De Uithof, opened in 1996 and has recently been replaced by a regular lane.


----------



## sotonsteve

With shoulder running, I think the UK is just about starting to realise what the Dutch have already realised. The shoulder ends up being a traffic lane for so much of the day that it may as well become a permanent traffic lane. It has also been realised recently that having a shoulder that can be opened at busy times is more expensive and more confusing than just converting the shoulder into a traffic lane.

What experiences do you have of shoulder running in the Netherlands? Are there regular problems with cars failing causing lots of congestion due to the shoulder having to close to traffic and lanes merge around the failed car? And what about if there is an incident that results in a large traffic queue? Does the shoulder remain open to traffic, making it difficult for emergency services to reach the scene of the incident quickly? In the UK shoulder running has not been in operation for so long, and I expect there are safety issues with the system that the government has been hiding from us.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The idea behind shoulder running is additional capacity during a few peak hours. However in practice it meant these shoulders are open to traffic through most of the day, even on Saturdays and Sundays. 

Not having a permanent shoulder is a major degradation to traffic safety. While there are SOS bays from time to time and the shoulders do have "incident detection" like stopped vehicles, emergency services cannot reach an accident as fast anymore. 

Another issue is that due to all electronics involved, shoulder running is more expensive than a regular lane in the long run. I'm not in favor of turning shoulders into permanent lanes though, as shoulders are a key feature to ensure the safety on a motorway, even though mechanical breakdowns are occurring far less than say 20 years ago. 

There are currently no new shoulder running locations planned in the Netherlands. Some will be replaced by regular widenings in the coming years, though it is likely that shoulder running will continue to exist in the coming years and even decades, especially left shoulder running.


----------



## Gereke

I believe A7 Purmerend-Zaandam will get shoulder running in the near future. So that's at least one project.


----------



## aswnl

Only because the roadway had already been widened in 2004 in order to create shoulder running.


----------



## Daviedoff

A video I've made last Wednesday of A/N65 Tilburg - Vught:


----------



## flierfy

^^ The lack of safety fences on the central reservation as well in front of the trees and lampposts seems rather strange. I wouldn't expect such a deficient road design in a highly developed country.


----------



## Paul mhm

All the budget for this road is spend at speed camera's i think...

The green light signal for the trucks is also a nice innovation.


----------



## keokiracer

Paul mhm said:


> The green light signal for the trucks is also a nice innovation.


What did I miss? :dunno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There is an extended green phase for trucks if they travel at a certain speed. The N65 is a major route, connecting two nearby 100.000+ cities and truck volumes are higher than on most other N-routes. 

Ideally, N65 should be reconstructed into a motorway, just like they did with N2 in the 1990s and N50 (A59) in the mid-2000s. The N65 carries about 45.000 vehicles per day.


----------



## Penn's Woods

flierfy said:


> ^^ The lack of safety fences on the central reservation as well in front of the trees and lampposts seems rather strange. I wouldn't expect such a deficient road design in a highly developed country.


Like here: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&...oid=yxiJmp9LKg3OO2u5mV7EMg&cbp=12,243.01,,0,0 ?

Are safety fences (particularly in central reservations, where it seems pointless to me if they're wide enough) really that essential to highly-developed-country road design? I haven't actually paid that much attention to the phenomenon: are roads without them that unusual, in Europe or elsewhere?

But I once made a U-turn through the grass on the stretch above when traffic was badly tied up due to an accident. (I wasn't the only one doing it.) In fact, it might have been helpful in that instance that there was no safety fence to prevent emergency vehicles accessing the accident scene from the other side of the road.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*

A4 Delft - Schiedam under construction.



egramsb said:


> Vandaag. De A4 is een witte streep door het weiland. Als je geen al te groot scherm hebt: scroll>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meer foto's volgen binnenkort.


----------



## keber

flierfy said:


> ^^ The lack of safety fences on the central reservation as well in front of the trees and lampposts seems rather strange.


It is not really necessary at 80 km/h speed limit and urban-like level crossings with traffic lights.


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> A4 Delft - Schiedam under construction.


Have the cows started protesting yet against the motorway in their back yard ? 
:bash:



Finally though, after what, 40 ? 50 years ?


----------



## Slagathor

flierfy said:


> ^^ The lack of safety fences on the central reservation as well in front of the trees and lampposts seems rather strange. I wouldn't expect such a deficient road design in a highly developed country.


Oh nanny-state nonsense. You have a steering wheel, don't you?


----------



## g.spinoza

Slagathor said:


> Oh nanny-state nonsense. You have a steering wheel, don't you?



According to your statement, there should be no accidents in the world. Which is odd, last time I checked there were plenty.


----------



## flierfy

Penn's Woods said:


> Like here: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&...oid=yxiJmp9LKg3OO2u5mV7EMg&cbp=12,243.01,,0,0 ?
> 
> Are safety fences (particularly in central reservations, where it seems pointless to me if they're wide enough) really that essential to highly-developed-country road design? I haven't actually paid that much attention to the phenomenon: are roads without them that unusual, in Europe or elsewhere?


Well, the aim is to prevent collisions with fatal or severe consequences. If a central reservation is wide enough and/or formed in a way that it is extremely unlikely that vehicles reach uncontrolledly the other carriageway and if there are no solid and stationary objects placed on it then safety fences are indeed redundant.

In case of the N65, however, neither of these conditions is met. And a speed of 80 km/h isn't that low that one could accept uncontrolled collisions. I do recognise that the Dutch road authority knows the safety record of the road and can assess the situation there better than I could from distance. It still looks rather strange though.


----------



## snowdog

g.spinoza said:


> According to your statement, there should be no accidents in the world. Which is odd, last time I checked there were plenty.


Risk of driving...


----------



## keber

flierfy said:


> And a speed of 80 km/h isn't that low that one could accept uncontrolled collisions.


In that case every 80+ km/h roads should have fences if there is only a slight risk of a collision? Are you aware that almost every road outside urban area would be fenced?


----------



## Road_UK

Excessive Health and Safety stuff should remain on the English side of the channel, not on the continent.


----------



## stofzuiger

flierfy said:


> ^^ The lack of safety fences on the central reservation as well in front of the trees and lampposts seems rather strange. I wouldn't expect such a deficient road design in a highly developed country.


You should do a google images search for the words: N65 ongeluk. Ongeluk means accident in dutch. 

The N65 is a very dangerous road, every few months you see a article in the local newspaper about a major accident on that road. 

There are a lot of speed camera's, some of them placed behind trees. People who aren't familiar with that road suddenly push their brakes because they see a speed camera pop up behind a tree. 

The best solution for this road is to develop it to a motorway, but there are a lot of people living in the area of the N65 who would most definitely do everything to prevent the N65 from becoming a motorway. I'm afraid a lot more lives will be lost on that road before it will finally become a motorway.


----------



## flierfy

keber said:


> In that case every 80+ km/h roads should have fences if there is only a slight risk of a collision? Are you aware that almost every road outside urban area would be fenced?


I know what you mean. There is, however, a difference. On dualled roads head-on collision can be prevented by safety fences on the central reservations while this is impossible on single carriageway roads.

Neither are safety fences along S2 roads completely unknown. Certain sections such as embankments are fenced for instance.


----------



## kubam4a1

If they say "no" to motorway, make it a 2x2 expressway maintaining the existing speed limit by converting all the junctions into grade-separated ones. 

I know, residents for a strange reason insist on maintaining the at-grade junctions, despite the fact that they decrease the safety, speed and increase the pollution (stop'n'go)...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are currently no plans for a conversion into an expressway or motorway. Considering the function and location in the network, I think a full motorway is the only sensible solution. You don't want an expressway that will soon carry 80.000 vehicles per day, just like happened to A2 and A59 after they were built. Traffic growth is quite significant in this region. For instance the A50 Oss - Eindhoven opened in 2006 and already carries 50.000 - 65.000 vehicles per day while alternate routes did not see a similar traffic decline. The A30 near Ede also quickly carried 50.000 vehicles per day within a few years of opening.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*traffic congestion down 40%*

Traffic congestion in the third quarter of 2012 was down by 40%, compared to the six-year average. Both the summer months as the commuting month of September recorded substantially less traffic congestion, the Dutch motorist association ANWB reports.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

From the Italian thread:



italystf said:


> Isn't it "state road"?


There is no real direct translation, but "national road" is the best. State route may imply it's a road of a state (of a country). 

A "rijksweg" is often a motorway, but sometimes an N-road. The term "rijksweg" precedes the construction of motorways and by far precedes the provincial roads (which were created in 1993). In daily usage, the "N-road" usually refers to a provincial road, but some N-roads are also operated by municipalities and the national government.

The "rijkswegen" used to be the counterpart of the Bundesstraße or Route Nationale, but most non-motorways have been transferred to lower governments, so most of the "rijkswegen" are motorways nowadays. 

Although from a user point of view, it shouldn't matter who operates a road. A road must be in good condition and adequately be able to handle the traffic load, regardless of who owns it.


----------



## Road_UK

Road_UK said:


> Yes, something like that. Probably another name that has survived from our great grandfather's days.


Also imported from Italy.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The bureau for waterstaat (water works) was already created in 1798, which later became Rijkswaterstaat.

The first road administration was during Napoleon in 1811, the national government operated the roads of the first and second class. 

The first paved roads were created before 1795 and would later become a part of the "rijkswegen":

* Utrecht - De Bilt
* Haarlem - Amsterdam
* Den Haag - Delft
* Vlissingen - Middelburg
* Arnhem - Nijmegen
* 's Hertogenbosch - Eindhoven

The following roads were paved during Napoleons reign:

* Amsterdam - Utrecht - Breda - Zundert
* De Bilt - Amersfoort - Deventer
* Haarlem - Den Haag
* Delft - Rotterdam

The Netherlands became independent in 1813-1815 and the Rijkswaterstaat was created. The 19th century road network was created in 1821, with the national government ("rijk") operating the first class roads and the provinces the second class roads. Another 500 kilometers of road was paved (with bricks) between 1825 and 1850. 

For instance, Rijksweg 1 was already created in 1813 and ran from Amsterdam via Amersfoort, Apeldoorn, Deventer and Oldenzaal to the German border. The modern A1 follows this route closely.

Other routes had different numbers than their later rijksweg-numbers though, even though the 1813 rijksweg 4 ran from Amsterdam to Haarlem to Den Haag to Delft to Hellevoetsluis, the A4 runs in this general area. 

See also geschiedenis (In Dutch)


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^I'll have to reread that once the caffeine's kicked in, but the "staat" in Rijkswaterstaat has nothing to with the state (government)? (Which, incidentally, is tricky in English anyway, particularly in countries that are subdivided into, well, states. I often end up translating "état" in French as "government" in English.)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

To be honest I don't know whether the "staat" in Rijkswaterstaat means state/country or condition. If it is the first, it would be redundant, considering the "rijks" part already means "of the national government".


----------



## Slagathor

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^I'll have to reread that once the caffeine's kicked in, but the "staat" in Rijkswaterstaat has nothing to with the state (government)? (Which, incidentally, is tricky in English anyway, particularly in countries that are subdivided into, well, states. I often end up translating "état" in French as "government" in English.)


"Staat" in "Rijkswaterstaat" means "state" as in "condition".

So _waterstaat_ = _condition of the water_.

Waterstaat is an old term that goes back several centuries but the meaning of "staat" in that context is not that of a geographical entity (state or nation). It surfaces throughout the centuries in words and institutions such as Provinciale Waterstaat, Rijkswaterstaat, Waterstaatskerk and Ministerie van Waterstaat, Handel en Nijverheid.

Waterstaat is an all-encompassing term, to which waterbeheer (the defense of the land against the water) and waterhuishouding (the water supply) are subject.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N61 Hoek - Schoondijke*

Since the upgrade of the N61 in southwestern Netherlands has cleared all procedural hurdles, construction can begin. 

1. future N61 west of IJzendijke.









2. Biervliet roundabout.









3. Braakman bridge. The only section of the eastern half that will not be widened to 2x2 lanes.









4. layout


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Passenger kilometers in the Netherlands*

The development of the passenger kilometers in the Netherlands between 1994 and 2007. Strangely, the CBS (Central Bureau of Statistics) does not have any data beyond 2007.










Notable is the significant loss of ridership in urban public transport. It lost over 25% of its kilometrage during this timespan, from 8.4 to 6.0 billion passenger kilometers. 

Car usage increased substantially during the 1990s, but leveled off after 2000. Interestingly, the Dutch travel just as much by train as by bicycle, even though these modalities are not competitors at all. Train usage increased in the mid-1990s, chiefly because students got their free travel card in 1991. Train usage growth also leveled off after 2000 and fluctuated like car usage.


----------



## Palance

Some pictures of the A15 near Barendrecht and Vaanplein interchange.










En kijkend naar het Vaanplein


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Traffic congestion down*

Overall traffic congestion dropped again, while traffic increased.

Here's two graphs

*vehicle kilometers 2000 - 2012*









*congestion* 2000 - 2012*









* measured as number of congestion kms * number of minutes


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Bicycle motorways? Got 'em!


----------



## MattN

That's not a design I've encountered before, either in terms of the width or the kerb separation in the middle. How is it to ride on? It's difficult to tell what the joints between the concrete slabs would be like from the photo. And could you link to the location? Cheers!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's quite smooth, you don't really feel the joints. The raised median however, is an unnecessary gimmick to make it look more like a freeway (the layout is more prestige than necessity). It's quite annoying to cycle across that median.

Location: http://goo.gl/maps/cRfHq


----------



## Neverworld

Will they add shoulder running when capacity turns out to be insufficient?

Looks quite nice though. I think they added the median to discourage swerving by fast moving bikes.

It will be interesting to see if this works out though, average bike trip length is quite short. In my opinion, it is a better idea to spend money on grade separation in key inner-city locations.


----------



## keokiracer

That it doesn't have to open as often as it used to. Clearance goes from 5,3 meters to 13 meters.


----------



## Neverworld

Makes sense, I guess.


----------



## snowdog

Do you have more pictures of the new Coentunnel and the Westrandweg Chris ? I'm really curious how it looks these days .


----------



## keokiracer

I have 2 pics from A9, took them today...

MTM is already present!


----------



## snowdog

That's near Raasdorp I assume ?

Nice. Hopefully soon this road will open to traffic . Should cut a couple minutes off during daytime .


----------



## keokiracer

snowdog said:


> That's near Raasdorp I assume ?


:yes:

A5--> A9 connector. Here on SV


----------



## woutero

@Snowdog: Check this website with regular photo updates:

- http://www.fotomix.nl/Westrandweg_A5_g398.html
- http://www.fotomix.nl/2e_Coentunnel_g365.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A13 Delft*

A 2003 aerial photo of the A13 at the Delft-South Interchange. This interchange opened in the early 1970s.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15 Rotterdam widening*

The widening of A15 along the southern side of Rotterdam.

1. Vaanplein interchange (A15/A29).









2. Vaanplein









3. Beneluxplein interchange (A4/A15)









4. New Botlek Bridge.








All photos: Joop van Houdt


----------



## da_scotty

ChrisZwolle said:


> A 2003 aerial photo of the A13 at the Delft-South Interchange. This interchange opened in the early 1970s.


Its really one of the few adequate interchanges in regard to the traffic flow, we need to have more of these!

Funny note, I can see my house from which I'm typing this message!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I agree, it's quite capable of handling high volumes. There is one in Zwolle as well, which handles about 80.000 vehicles per day but is never congested.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A new bridge was installed a little while ago across the Amsterdam-Rhine Canal near the Diemen motorway interchange. It will handle local traffic to and from the IJburg neighborhood of Amsterdam. It was designed as a high-density transit-oriented development with only one road outlet but it was congested before the new development was even completed, so they had to build another outlet. In contrast with the first bridge to the west, this bridge has 2x2 lanes.


----------



## Daviedoff

N281 Heerlen (province of Limburg):


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*

Construction of the A4 from Delft to Schiedam near Rotterdam.

1. Kethelplein Motorway Interchange (A4/A20)









2. A4 will be underground in this area between the apartment buildings. It was originally planned as an embankment, so they have to transport incredible amounts of sand out.









3. They've built a temporary bridge across A20 to facilitate sand transports.









4. A4 will be underground until the edge of the urban area. After that, it will be depressed below ground level.









5. Construction in a rural area between Schiedam and Delft. So far they've worked months to remove the embankment.








All photos: Joop van Houdt / RWS


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Maasvlakte 2 road infrastructure*

The new road across the Maasvlakte 2 expansion of the Port of Rotterdam opened to traffic today.

Here's an aerial photo from July. Don't let the scales fool you, the new road is about 4.5 - 5 kilometers further west than the existing developments. The distance from here to the farthest development of the Rotterdam municipality (Nesselande) is now 80 kilometers by road.


----------



## MattN

Has the old road been breached by the water yet? Can't quite tell from the photo.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It will be, starting from today. They will dig the canal to allow "nautical access" to the Maasvlakte 2 area. 

On a maritime sidenote, there's currently significant overcapacity with container terminals. Germany recently opened a new deep-sea container port near Wilhelmshaven, but it has poor hinterland connections. No other port in Europe can touch Rotterdam in terms of capacity, accessibility and hinterland connections, but there is fierce competition between ports.

58% of all containers are currently shipped to the hinterland by trucks, the goal is to reduce this to 35%, even with the increasing amount of container transport. Which means there is a huge task for rail and water to handle the future amount of containers.


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> Construction of the A4 from Delft to Schiedam near Rotterdam.


Still think it's a massive waste of money, the tunnel and the half sunken motorway for the bloody cows... If they'd just build it above ground like they should, we could use the 600 mil saved, to upgrade many many local roads and N roads in the Rotterdam area...

But at least it's finally going to be built...


----------



## Slagathor

^^ I agree, if it were up to me, I would build a half-sunken motorway through that area with apartment buildings (you don't need a tunnel there, look at all the space) and the rest should simply be above ground.


----------



## snowdog

My main concern is the money, 900(iirc) mil vs 200 mil costs... 

That 700 mil could have been used to upgrade many inner Rotterdam roads with green ''waves'' for traffic lights (Hoofdweg Rotterdam for example), upgrade the roads to Hillergersberg/Schiebroek, upgrade the access to Nesselande, etcetc... ( just examples in the north and east, but I'm sure there are many more examples in the rest of R'dam...).

But ah well, the decision is made, obviously some people think protecting some grassland used by cows and a minority recreating there is more important than mobility .


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Eek!

I assume people started shouting about privacy? (And rightly so.)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The kilometer charge is a recurring proposal to implement a GPS-controlled, distance and time-based toll. This could cost rush hour commuters several thousand euros per year, while only high incomes would benefit from it by the abolishing of the new car purchase tax (used to be 43% plus VAT/sales tax, now it's a calculation).


----------



## Neverworld

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^Eek!
> 
> I assume people started shouting about privacy? (And rightly so.)


Yes. More about cost though (we are Dutch, after all). But you're right, a government that can dictate when you can and when you can't drive in certain places or even anywhere (which they would be able to, effectively, by charging more at peak times and for certain locations) is dangerously close to a totalitarian regime. Not to mention the fact that the government can at any moment know where I'm driving, how fast I am driving and things like that. It's scary to even think about and I am very happy they scrapped this idea for a number of years at least.

Another piece of news is the scrapping of the free public transport card for students, which means they (I hope to be graduating within a year, luckily) will be subject to regular public transport fares again. You might think that's not a bad thing, but I think it is, as there is still a major shortage of student rooms near schools and universities, so I'm afraid this measure will simply result in higher prices for the rooms that are available, more than anything else. Going back to topic, it might also mean more people on the road, as the choice between public transport and private transport will change significantly in future for a large group of people with quite a high travel demand.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A5 Westrandweg, Amsterdam*



Dutchal1942 said:


> een paar foto's van de westrandweg.


:cheers:


----------



## CitoyenNéerlandais

^^Looks good .


----------



## Gereke

I hope it's not to narrow in a few years time... Widening would be very, very difficult and expensive.


----------



## aswnl

The construction has been build in a way that usage of 3 lanes in each direction is possible. However the I/C on the viaduct will only be 0,6 with 2x2 lanes; I expect no need for converting the shoulders into lanes for at least the next 15-20 years.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The existing A5 (Raasdorp - De Hoek) will probably become more of a problem than the new part.


----------



## wjfox

*Netherlands highways will glow in the dark starting in mid-2013*

A smart road design that features glow-in-the-dark tarmac and illuminated weather indicators will be installed in the Netherlands from mid-2013.

http://arstechnica.com/business/201...s-will-glow-in-the-dark-starting-in-mid-2013/


----------



## Surel

^^
now, I like that.

Getting stuck in a traffic jam in Amsterdam A1 at 1 a.m. yesterday due to the roadworks.


----------



## keber

wjfox said:


> *Netherlands highways will glow in the dark starting in mid-2013*
> 
> A smart road design that features glow-in-the-dark tarmac and illuminated weather indicators will be installed in the Netherlands from mid-2013.


Doesn't seem very intelligent to me if paint glows just when it is cold. However indicator when invisible ice is present on the road, that would be something.


----------



## Daviedoff

A video I've made yesterday of N61 Schoondijke - Terneuzen. It looks now quite "oldschool" (old roadmarkings, overtaking mostly allowed,...)but from now on till 2014 this road will be completely renewed and upgraded...


----------



## snowdog

Daviedoff said:


> A video I've made yesterday of N61 Schoondijke - Terneuzen. It looks now quite "oldschool" (old roadmarkings, overtaking mostly allowed,...)but from now on till 2014 this road will be completely renewed and upgraded...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> " frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*traffic congestion down by 40%*

Traffic congestion was down by 40% during the month of October, Dutch motorists and tourist association ANWB reports. Especially the evening rush hours recorded less traffic congestion. The reduction is in line with earlier months, traffic congestion was also down by 40% in August and September.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The new Dutch government was inaugurated today. The center-right liberals (VVD) went into a coalition with the labor party (PvdA). 

Melanie Schultz (left) remains minister of Infrastructure and Environment. Wilma Mansveld (right) replaces Joop Atsma (center) as secretary of I&M.









Melanie Schultz will be in charge of spatial planning, roads, maritime affairs and waterworks.
Wilma Mansveld will be in charge of environmental issues, the weather office, aerospace and rail transport.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Parking fees were the highest growing revenue of municipal income, a new study shows. While the municipal revenue grew by 20% between 2007 and 2012, parking revenues grew by 38%. Parking revenues were € 445 million in 2007 and € 614 million in 2012. 

The growth in parking revenue had three primary causes; more municipalities introduced parking fees, the paid parking areas were expanded and parking fees were raised. 

It is not the biggest revenue sector for municipalities. Property taxes amounted to € 3.2 billion and sewage rights revenued € 1.4 billion.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

^^ € 614 million :lol: That's more than the annual budget for Estonian highways (maintenance and EU financing included)
[2012 Estonian road budget is € 285 million]


----------



## woutero

Well, I'm not sure if that's sad for NL (poor parkers) or Estonia, but Estonia also only has 8% of the inhabitants and less than 3% of the GDP the NL does.

So if you would relate it to the size of the economy €614 million for Estonia would mean €22 billion for The Netherlands. I don't think we have that kind of budget for roads either...

EDIT: I see that the message by Rebasepoiss was edited: Estonian budget is €285, which would mean 'only' just over €10 billion for The Netherlands (if it were proportional to the economy). I don't mean anything with it, just to say it is hard to compare apples and oranges.


----------



## Slagathor

€22 billion lol snowdog is hearing the angels sing Hallelujah.


----------



## zsmg

woutero said:


> So if you would relate it to the size of the economy €614 million for Estonia would mean €22 billion for The Netherlands. I don't think we have that kind of budget for roads either...


Netherlands doesn't need that kind of budget though, its infrastructure with some exception here and there is already top class.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*road capacity expansion 2012 - 2015*

New lane kilometers in the coming years:

* 2012: 63,0 km
* 2013: 179,4 km
* 2014: 351,0 km
* 2015: 211,3 km


----------



## woutero

Do you have details about where these lane-km's will be added?


----------



## snowdog

Slagathor said:


> €22 billion lol snowdog is hearing the angels sing Hallelujah.


That would a be a nice infra budget .


----------



## ChrisZwolle

About € 18 billion will be invested in the road network between 2011 and 2020. Which translates to € 2 billion per year, or 1% of the government budget or 0.3% of GDP.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 's-Hertogenbosch - Eindhoven*

*A2 's-Hertogenbosch - Eindhoven widening may continue, but...*

The Council of State has issued a 62-page (!) verdict today about the widening of the A2 between the cities of 's-Hertogenbosch and Eindhoven. The motorway is currently being widened to 2x3 lanes, with the northern third already opened to traffic with six lanes.

The Council of State is making an inquiry at the European Court of Justice about the European habitats directive of 1992. It's a given that the widening of the motorway will increase nitrogen deposits in this area, but compensation measures have also been taken. The question is whether this against the directive or not.

The Council of State has not annulled the record of decision to widen the motorway, so construction may continue and has given a free rein to the Minister of Transportation whether to open the new lanes or not.


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Council of State has not annulled the record of decision to widen the motorway, so construction may continue and has given a free rein to the Minister of Transportation whether to open the new lanes or not.


And we all know Schulz will open it :lol:.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*traffic safety*

A new study by the governmental agency "knowledge institute of mobility" shows steps need to be taken to address the increasing amount of fatalities and severely injured senior cyclists.

There were 11.000 severely injured cyclists in 2009, out of a total of 18.600 severely injured overall. 85% of those 11.000 accidents with severely injured cyclists did not involve a motor vehicle. The study shows especially senior citizens are vulnerable due to their weakened systems, slow reaction and poor condition. 

The number one factor is infrastructure-related, such as anti-car obstacles, slippery roads and potholes. The second factor is bicycle related, such as people not being able to control their bicycle. This could be pretty minor things to the experienced younger cyclist, like slipping off the pedal. Seniors can fall off their bicycle and break their bones or hit their head against the pavement. The third factor are humans, such as other cyclists or unexpected situations. In practice, it's a combination of these three factors.

The number of severely injured senior citizens on a bicycle increased by 41% between 2005 and 2009. Often the infrastructure is safe, but the cyclists aren't. They propose a new approach to bicycle safety, and reducing the feeling of untouchability cyclists have. In other words, cyclists need to become more aware that they are very vulnerable due to the lack of physical protection like in a motor vehicle.


----------



## Road_UK

ChrisZwolle said:


> . In other words, cyclists need to become more aware that they are very vulnerable due to the lack of physical protection like in a motor vehicle.


Geez. It took them only a 100 years to come this conclusion? Either way, I hope the authorities are not going to become over-protective again, and make them wear helmets and stuff. People should be able to think and take risk assessments for themselves at some point, without the interfering...


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ Helmet laws are warranted, considering society as a whole ends up paying for the healthcare of risk-increased cyclists.


----------



## Road_UK

Are you Dutch? I have asked you a few times, you never answered...


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> The number of severely injured senior citizens on a bicycle increased by 41% between 2005 and 2009. Often the infrastructure is safe, but the cyclists aren't. They propose a new approach to bicycle safety, and reducing the feeling of untouchability cyclists have. In other words, cyclists need to become more aware that they are very vulnerable due to the lack of physical protection like in a motor vehicle.


Maybe that has to do with the population aging? Electric bicycles? Etc...


----------



## Surel

Road_UK said:


> Are you Dutch? I have asked you a few times, you never answered...


google out SPQR .


----------



## Road_UK

Surel said:


> google out SPQR .


Yes, I read Asterix and Obelix. I can picture him with his sandals actually...


----------



## Neverworld

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ Helmet laws are warranted, considering society as a whole ends up paying for the healthcare of risk-increased cyclists.


So you're also in favor of smoke banning laws, driving no faster than 60km/h laws, going to the beach laws (one might drown), and such?


----------



## Surel

I don't think that helmet laws for bikers will be ever in force in the NL. Its quite funny though when you look on all the other regulations. In the CZ there is a mandatory helmet for children under 15 (or maybe 18?) and I must say it is a good rule. Its just a matter of getting used to it. At first it would feel awkward for the Dutch parents and schoolkids, but they would get used to it.

A czech friend of mine has allways a helmet on in the NL when on a bike.


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## ChrisZwolle

I cycle to work every day across a busy bicycle route, but I virtually never see anyone with a helmet. Only sometimes little kids (age 4/5) and amateur racers have a helmet.


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> I cycle to work every day across a busy bicycle route, but I virtually never see anyone with a helmet. Only sometimes little kids (age 4/5) and amateur racers have a helmet.


Yeah, my friend, he had been ridiculed for that . But nevertheless he also cracked the helmet once, thus it worked for him. But he rides a race bike mostly (not for sporting purpose only). Cycling some 30 - 40 km/h in Utrecht streets is not that safe after all .


----------



## sotonsteve

Do you get a lot of psychotic cyclists in the Netherlands who seemingly want to kill anybody who drives a motor vehicle and have zero regard for road laws?


----------



## keokiracer

^^ Well yeah, there are always idiots, they are everywhere. The majority of cyclists I see behave pretty well. The only thing that really no cyclist ever does in morning rush hour is give priority to traffic from the right here. Besides that. Good behaviour. Some Dutchies may be shocked: but quite a lot of cyclists on my route actually indicate!

I cycle to school every day across a busy cycle path with at least 1500 students. And they all pass within about 15 mins (8:00 - 8:15). No one wears a helmet. It's busy as hell. constantly (near) chain collisions with cyclists (this morning for example someone's bag fell of his bike: everyone hard on the brakes). But besides stupid red light runners (I can honestly say I've only done that once in 5 years, and that was when the light just stayed on red...) there are never any crashes or injuries. Everyone is used to these near chain collisions and everyone anticipates. You can hear most of them coming. Hard brake noises etc.
And a safe distance: sorry, never heard of that. In a slight descend on my route everyone cycles about 20 km/h (or more) and no one keeps more than 1 meter distance to the cyclist in front. And still: rarely any crashes. There are a lot of near crashes (sudden braking), but as I said: everyone knows that will happen and everyone anticipates. 
No helmets needed.

(I should really get a cycle cam :nuts::lol


----------



## keokiracer

Surel said:


> Cycling some 30 - 40 km/h in Utrecht streets is not that safe after all .


I do that on a daily base without a helmet, but not in Utrecht 

(only a little relevant):

This afternoon I made THE best overtake I had ever made. Location

There was a big group of cyclists in front going like 10 km/h, everyone wanted to pass. Here everyone always drives on the road and just leaves the cyclepath untouched (see Streetview pic). That's because it's longer than the route via the road and practiically no one drives on the road itself anyway. So everyone goes onto the road. The slow guys were cycling 3 abreast and another 3 abreast group started an overtake. The slower cycle path was actually also being used to overtake the slow group (if there would've been no one I would've passed them there). Besides those 2 groups driving abreast there was also a stream of cyclists trying to pass them all on the left side (going around 20 km/h). That could only be done 1 cyclist at a time because there was no more room for another cyclist next to them! They were almost cycliing against the parked cars on the other side of the road.
I cycled up to the now 7-cyclist-wide group of cyclists and looked. Nowhere to overtake... I wasn't planning on slowing down. Now what? I know! The cycle path meant for cyclists driving the other way! There were no cyclists coming the other way, only 2 parked sedans (= good view over the cars), and no pedestrians. And I overtook them with 30+ km/h 

And I made it to the light up ahead! Light just turned orange as I raced by :banana:

[/end of boring and REALLY off-topic story]


----------



## Suburbanist

Road_UK said:


> Are you Dutch? I have asked you a few times, you never answered...


No, I live in The Netherlands after moving here from Italy in late 2009


----------



## Wilhem275

So, are you Italian then?


----------



## Slagathor

Some studies have shown that helmets increase bicycle related traffic accidents because cyclists wearing helmets feel safer and take more and greater risks. 

While those studies are contestable to some degree, they are also largely irrelevant. You'll never get a Dutchman to wear a helmet when he's cycling. Or ice skating. 

Hell, people buy those 35km/h scooters instead of the faster ones just so they won't have to wear a helmet. Anyone who thinks cyclists in this country will realistically wear a helmet is completely out of touch with reality. 

The Dutch will either completely ignore a helmet law, or they'll rebel against it.


----------



## g.spinoza

Slagathor said:


> The Dutch will either completely ignore a helmet law, or they'll rebel against it.


If you think the Dutch will "rebel" for such a non-important thing, you must consider them very shallow.


----------



## Slagathor

g.spinoza said:


> If you think the Dutch will "rebel" for such a non-important thing, you must consider them very shallow.


By rebel, I mean a general unwillingness to comply. I obviously don't mean a revolution. I mean police officers who refuse to write fines or citizens who refuse to pay them. 

But the likely scenario is that people would simply ignore it.


----------



## g.spinoza

Slagathor said:


> . I mean police officers who refuse to write fines


Can they? In a civilized country, which I think the Netherlands are, officers will be fired if they refuse to enforce a law.


----------



## Surel

Slagathor said:


> By rebel, I mean a general unwillingness to comply. I obviously don't mean a revolution. I mean police officers who refuse to write fines or citizens who refuse to pay them.
> 
> But the likely scenario is that people would simply ignore it.


Thats why I talked about helmets for underage or under 15. That would not be targeted at general public and could be reasoned emotionally with the parents and police officers, thus it could work. Neverthless there is no politician that would dwell into this unpopular subject anyway.

I don't wear a helmet on bike, but then again I am not the racer. Although I overtook a car or two on a bike in those 30 km zones.... The only sport I use helmet for is skiing.


----------



## Slagathor

g.spinoza said:


> Can they? In a civilized country, which I think the Netherlands are, officers will be fired if they refuse to enforce a law.


They can and they do. Usually this happens on the basis of an order from higher up but there are things that a policeman will notice but then choose to look away from. 

About a year ago (as I recall), the government introduced legislation banning people from covering up their faces in public. It was popularly known as the burqa ban. The police chief in Amsterdam refused to fine people for wearing burqas in public, he thought it was a silly law that needlessly created friction in society and distracted his officers from more important matters.

Politicians grilled him for it, of course. Police chiefs are not strictly speaking allowed to determine policy on their own. They must follow the law.

But in reality there is room for maneuver. Let's say a police officer pulls you over because you're speeding to the hospital with a wounded person in the passenger seat. Strictly speaking the officer is obliged to give you a fine for speeding. But he won't, will he? There are such things as mitigating circumstances and professional judgment by the officer.

On smaller matters I once saw someone parking and locking their bike right next to a "DO NOT PARK YOUR BIKE HERE" sign. A police officer saw it and walked right by. I can't speak for him but I think he made a judgment call that the bike in question was not hindering anyone in that particular spot (it was just a shop window) and did not pose any danger to anyone, so he let it go.


----------



## Road_UK

Slagathor said:


> Some studies have shown that helmets increase bicycle related traffic accidents because cyclists wearing helmets feel safer and take more and greater risks.
> 
> While those studies are contestable to some degree, they are also largely irrelevant. You'll never get a Dutchman to wear a helmet when he's cycling. Or ice skating.
> 
> Hell, people buy those 35km/h scooters instead of the faster ones just so they won't have to wear a helmet. Anyone who thinks cyclists in this country will realistically wear a helmet is completely out of touch with reality.
> 
> The Dutch will either completely ignore a helmet law, or they'll rebel against it.


I could not agree more. The Dutch have the best cycle-way network in the world, and they are the ones who will get out on their bikes the most. And whoever will try and dictate them into wearing helmets: good luck but it will not happen. The English with their ridiculous health and safety laws really take the biscuit, and they look simultaneously ridiculous in Austria when they go on biking holidays, with their helmets AND high-viz yellow jackets...

The Dutch will never ever go down that road!


----------



## g.spinoza

Slagathor said:


> They can and they do. Usually this happens on the basis of an order from higher up but there are things that a policeman will notice but then choose to look away from.
> 
> About a year ago (as I recall), the government introduced legislation banning people from covering up their faces in public. It was popularly known as the burqa ban. The police chief in Amsterdam refused to fine people for wearing burqas in public, he thought it was a silly law that needlessly created friction in society and distracted his officers from more important matters.
> 
> Politicians grilled him for it, of course. Police chiefs are not strictly speaking allowed to determine policy on their own. They must follow the law.
> 
> But in reality there is room for maneuver. Let's say a police officer pulls you over because you're speeding to the hospital with a wounded person in the passenger seat. Strictly speaking the officer is obliged to give you a fine for speeding. But he won't, will he? There are such things as mitigating circumstances and professional judgment by the officer.
> 
> On smaller matters I once saw someone parking and locking their bike right next to a "DO NOT PARK YOUR BIKE HERE" sign. A police officer saw it and walked right by. I can't speak for him but I think he made a judgment call that the bike in question was not hindering anyone in that particular spot (it was just a shop window) and did not pose any danger to anyone, so he let it go.




Then I think I judged the Netherlands more civilized than they really are.



Road_UK said:


> The English with their ridiculous health and safety laws really take the biscuit, and they look simultaneously ridiculous in Austria when they go on biking holidays, with their helmets AND high-viz yellow jackets...


Maybe they will sound less ridiculous when they survive and others don't...


----------



## Road_UK

The Austrians die from laughter... When they see Germans with white socks in sandals nearby, then it's time for schnapps and beer...


----------



## Slagathor

g.spinoza said:


> Then I think I judged the Netherlands more civilized than they really are.


Only if you think "civilized" is a synonym for "servitude" to whichever uniform happens to cross your path.

Every society needs a healthy dose of live-and-let-live, certainly one as densely populated as the Netherlands. So long as the laisser-faire attitude doesn't extend to matters of corruption and serious crime, civilization is not on the brink of collapse.


----------



## Slagathor

Road_UK said:


> I could not agree more. The Dutch have the best cycle-way network in the world, and they are the ones who will get out on their bikes the most. And whoever will try and dictate them into wearing helmets: good luck but it will not happen. The English with their ridiculous health and safety laws really take the biscuit, and they look simultaneously ridiculous in Austria when they go on biking holidays, with their helmets AND high-viz yellow jackets...
> 
> The Dutch will never ever go down that road!


They had a stint with that once in my home town when I was still at high school. Some local official thought it better to introduce a helmet law. Nobody took it seriously. Then at one point he had a police trap set up on a bicycle expressway coming into town from smaller villages. One of those routes that is completely choked with pupils and students every morning.

They fined about 2 or 3 of them. A largely symbolic amount of 5 guilders as I recall. Word quickly spread, oncoming cyclists warned others etc. and what happened next is very telling of the Dutch attitude towards cycling freedom.

At the last bend before the police trap, people got off their bikes and started walking with the bike in hand. Since you're not obliged to wear a helmet when you're walking and walking isn't forbidden on bicycle lanes, the people bid the police officers a hearty good morning as they passed and having rounded the next bend, got back on their bikes and continued their journey.

It was a PR disaster and no local politician ever spoke of helmets ever again.

Mind you this was in 1996 so imagine how it would go in this day and age of cell phones and social media. 

On the other end of the spectrum (away from countryside expressways) are bustling cities like Amsterdam. If you're a police officer on foot, a call to halt to a cyclist will get you a friendly wave. If you're a police officer by car, you'll never catch them. Too many alleyways, pedestrian zones...
So the only people capable of stopping a cyclist are police officers on bicycles, of which there are few. Certainly not enough to control the mobs of thousands of cyclists that ride through our cities every day.

Any initiative of the sort is doomed to fail, ruining every political career involved.


----------



## Road_UK

If you ever want to understand this, you will have to go very deep into the Dutch soul. It will be very difficult for outsiders to comprehend that the Dutch are generally law-abiding people, but there is a certain pride that goes beyond that. One of them is dictation of certain regulations concerning safety, in which people are perfectly capable of thinking for themselves. The Netherlands has already become somehow of a nanny-state, but when it comes to Dutch people and bicycles, no outsiders will stand a chance against them.


----------



## Road_UK

Slagathor said:


> They had a stint with that once in my home town when I was still at high school. Some local official thought it better to introduce a helmet law. Nobody took it seriously. Then at one point he had a police trap set up on a bicycle expressway coming into town from smaller villages. One of those routes that is completely choked with pupils and students every morning.
> 
> They fined about 2 or 3 of them. A largely symbolic amount of 5 guilders as I recall. Word quickly spread, oncoming cyclists warned others etc. and what happened next is very telling of the Dutch attitude towards cycling freedom.
> 
> At the last bend before the police trap, people got off their bikes and started walking with the bike in hand. Since you're not obliged to wear a helmet when you're walking and walking isn't forbidden on bicycle lanes, the people bid the police officers a hearty good morning as they passed and having rounded the next bend, got back on their bikes and continued their journey.
> 
> It was a PR disaster and no local politician ever spoke of helmets ever again.
> 
> Mind you this was in 1996 so imagine how it would go in this day and age of cell phones and social media.
> 
> On the other end of the spectrum (away from countryside expressways) are bustling cities like Amsterdam. If you're a police officer on foot, a call to halt to a cyclist will get you a friendly wave. If you're a police officer by car, you'll never catch them. Too many alleyways, pedestrian zones...
> So the only people capable of stopping a cyclist are police officers on bicycles, of which there are few. Certainly not enough to control the mobs of thousands of cyclists that ride through our cities every day.
> 
> Any initiative of the sort is doomed to fail, ruining every political career involved.


Love it! I don't know if I will ever live in the Netherlands again, but hearing stories like these makes me proud to be a bearer of a Dutch passport!


----------



## Surel

Road_UK said:


> The English with their ridiculous health and safety laws really take the biscuit, and they look simultaneously ridiculous in Austria when they go on biking holidays, with their helmets AND high-viz yellow jackets...
> 
> The Dutch will never ever go down that road!


Are the Dutch motorcyclist in their flashing yellow jackets not looking ridiculous? Its all just matter of getting used to things.


----------



## Road_UK

I will never get used to over-protective health and safety regulations. I am happy to say, that neither do many UK citizens anymore. they are starting to get fed up with this whole thing. 

I don't see that many Dutch motorcyclists with flashing yellow jackets...


----------



## Surel

Slagathor said:


> Only if you think "civilized" is a synonym for "servitude" to whichever uniform happens to cross your path.
> 
> Every society needs a healthy dose of live-and-let-live, certainly one as densely populated as the Netherlands. So long as the laisser-faire attitude doesn't extend to matters of corruption and serious crime, civilization is not on the brink of collapse.


The reason why the police "judgment" may be tolerable is because you might presume it is not corruptible. As long as the police officers judgment follows only the justice reasoning its tolerable, however, once it would follow either personal profit, laziness, or corrupt offers it would be deemed unfit. There are also racial and servitude issues involved when speaking about freedom of police judgment.

What I make of that behavior is that the policemen most often just don't want to be bothered.


----------



## Surel

Road_UK said:


> I will never get used to over-protective health and safety regulations. I am happy to say, that neither do many UK citizens anymore. they are starting to get fed up with this whole thing.
> 
> I don't see that many Dutch motorcyclists with flashing yellow jackets...


Maybe its because you're living in Austria? :dunno:


----------



## Surel

Slagathor said:


> On the other end of the spectrum (away from countryside expressways) are bustling cities like Amsterdam. If you're a police officer on foot, a call to halt to a cyclist will get you a friendly wave. If you're a police officer by car, you'll never catch them. Too many alleyways, pedestrian zones...
> So the only people capable of stopping a cyclist are police officers on bicycles, of which there are few. Certainly not enough to control the mobs of thousands of cyclists that ride through our cities every day.


So I did very stupid stopping and letting the Dutch police fine me, TWICE!!... And I wondered why all the others are just passing by...


----------



## drozdz

Hello everyone!! 

Last week I came back from one week visit in the Netherlands and I have to say its a very beautiful country. 

I got to drive a lot on your motorways and what I noticed is that you are using very nice, estetic, see through noise barriers on the side of the major roads.

Could someone please post a few pictures of the noise barriers you are using in the Netherlands? I would like to show on our forum what we should be using in Poland in major cities istead of the ugly, huge screens we are currently using..


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A28 Zeist-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


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## drozdz

eh, not exactly what I had on my mind but still better than 90% of the barriers we are using


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## Road_UK

I thought they were going to remove that silly thing?

Edit: Looking at that picture on the right, you have to admire the lane discipline in the Netherlands, in comparison to a lot of other European nations, including Germany.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A2 Maarssen-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## hermsNS

^^ this maybe looks nicer and more hi-tech but isn't more expensive than a normal 5m tall noise barrier?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Twente Canal was dug during the 1930s. It connects the IJssel River at Zutphen with Almelo, Hengelo and Enschede, the three major cities of the Twente region in eastern Netherlands.

First they built the bridges, then they dug the canal.


----------



## maral

drozdz said:


> Hello everyone!!
> 
> Last week I came back from one week visit in the Netherlands and I have to say its a very beautiful country.
> 
> I got to drive a lot on your motorways and what I noticed is that you are using very nice, estetic, see through noise barriers on the side of the major roads.
> 
> Could someone please post a few pictures of the noise barriers you are using in the Netherlands? I would like to show on our forum what we should be using in Poland in major cities istead of the ugly, huge screens we are currently using..



see through?

Something like this:


----------



## snowdog

Road_UK said:


> I thought they were going to remove that silly thing?
> 
> Edit: Looking at that picture on the right, you have to admire the lane discipline in the Netherlands, in comparison to a lot of other European nations, including Germany.


I sometimes wonder do I drive through a different Germany ?

When I drive in Germany at high pace ( 180 ish km/h), usually the only ones who pull out at slow speeds like 130 km/h are the ''Nur Links'' plates... Barely ever had been pulled out on me by German plates, just Dutch and Poles...

Lane discipline is appalling when there is a bit more traffic too in the Netherlands, just drive on the A16 near Rotterdam, the right lane only has trucks with hundreds of meters of free space in between, and middle and left lanes are clogged with slow ass cars tailgating each other.


----------



## snowdog

The glass noise barriers seem very attracting for graffiti ''artists'':


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## Road_UK

snowdog said:


> I sometimes wonder do I drive through a different Germany ?
> 
> When I drive in Germany at high pace ( 180 ish km/h), usually the only ones who pull out at slow speeds like 130 km/h are the ''Nur Links'' plates... Barely ever had been pulled out on me by German plates, just Dutch and Poles...
> 
> Lane discipline is appalling when there is a bit more traffic too in the Netherlands, just drive on the A16 near Rotterdam, the right lane only has trucks with hundreds of meters of free space in between, and middle and left lanes are clogged with slow ass cars tailgating each other.


Yeah well, your opinions are loud, aggressive and without any knowledge. I am in a really bad mood right now, and the last thing I want is a empty headed moaning opinion from Postman Pat from Capelle.


----------



## Wilhem275

ROTFL


----------



## snowdog

Road_UK said:


> Yeah well, your opinions are loud, aggressive and without any knowledge. I am in a really bad mood right now, and the last thing I want is a empty headed moaning opinion from Postman Pat from Capelle.


Vice versa, mr. slow bus driver... You seem to be spouting nonsense how Dutch lane discipline is good, or better than German anyhow, which is utter nonsense. Dutch lane discipline is rubbish mostly.
I'm on the roads every day here to see how **** lane discipline is, you aren't...


----------



## da_scotty

Hmm we have a thread in the Rotterdam-Section of this forum for two members so they can fight out there differences there instead.. Instead of fighting it out in a public forum.. Maybe something for Snowdog and Road_UK?

Comm on guys... Postman Pat & mr. Slow Bus Driver, let's give each others names and tell them you stink...


----------



## keokiracer

snowdog said:


> just drive on the A16 near Rotterdam, the right lane only has trucks with hundreds of meters of free space in between, and middle and left lanes are clogged with slow ass cars tailgating each other.


Yeah duh! There's a truck-only lane there 
https://maps.google.nl/?ll=51.90594...6p2vd6vwY1WZmEVkWQ7OLg&cbp=12,334.47,,1,-5.42


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## snowdog

keokiracer said:


> Yeah duh! There's a truck-only lane there
> https://maps.google.nl/?ll=51.90594...6p2vd6vwY1WZmEVkWQ7OLg&cbp=12,334.47,,1,-5.42


I actually meant in the other direction, it's notorious with mid lane hoggers... Every single day it's the same... But you can say that about the A12 too! Gouda-Utrecht is really bad in that aspect! Right lane is really under-used...


----------



## Slagathor

They're all conspiring to slow you down. They vote GroenLinks and they have a whole GPS system set up so they know where you are and can get in your way.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A5 Amsterdam*



Dutchal1942 said:


>


:cheers:


----------



## Wilhem275

Beautiful day and pictures 



Slagathor said:


> They're all conspiring to slow you down. They vote GroenLinks and they have a whole GPS system set up so they know where you are and can get in your way.


http://youtu.be/z9lBvg5clr0?t=45s :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## drozdz

Thx for posting pictures I've asked for. That's what I've been looking for!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*"turboduct"*

The city of Hilversum opened a new intersection today, a turbo roundabout with an underpass. They call it a "turboduct". :nuts:

render:


----------



## Penn's Woods

Dupont Circle (and various other circles) in Washington has looked like that for decades....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Dupont Circle is not a turbo roundabout, in fact it's more like an inverted turbo roundabout. You have to take the left lanes to make a right turn.


----------



## Penn's Woods

All I know is, for a pedestrian, it's a pain: unless you cut straight across using the walkways that line up with Connecticut Avenue, it can take a good ten minutes to get around it, thanks to each of the up-to-six intersections you'd have to cross to go 180 degrees having two lights (one for traffic leaving the circle and one for traffic entering) and their apparently not being timed with pedestrians in mind.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N356 De Centrale As*

The first segment of the N356 "Central Axis" project has been tendered. Construction will begin soon on a circa 7 kilometer segment of new expressway: 2x2 lanes and a speed limit of 100 km/h. The cost is € 22 million, or just over € 3 million per kilometer, extraordinarily cheap by Dutch standards. The new expressway will open in December 2015.

map:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Steenbergen*

A photo of the Steenbergen Aquaduct under construction.









Photo credit: Joop van Houdt


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A5 Amsterdam*

The Westrandweg Run was held yesterday, a race across the new A5 motorway in Amsterdam. Former minister of transportation Camiel Eurlings - who worked tirelessly to get this project done - started the race.

The first phase of the new motorway - between the A9/Raasdorp interchange and Luvernes exit in the port of Amsterdam - will open December 14, 05.00 hours.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Municipality sued over bad road maintenance*

The municipality of Stichtse Vecht has been sued by the public prosecutor over a fatal accident caused by poor road maintenance. 2 people were killed in 2009 when their motorcycle crashed into a tractor due to bumps in the road caused by tree roots. The bumps were about 4 - 6 cm. Test proved the motorcycle already got off the ground at 50 km/h, while the speed limit is 60 km/h.

The verdict may have far-reaching consequences for road authorities in the Netherlands, especially municipalities.


----------



## keokiracer

What also should be noted is that the municipality had gotten various complaints about the road surface and another motorcyclist had died earlier on that road, partly due to the bad road surface. The municipality didn't do anything about it! They said that signs with 'bad road surface' on them were sufficient.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A10, Amsterdam*

Notice these apartment buildings almost built on top of A10 in Amsterdam.


----------



## keokiracer

That actually looks weird from Streetview. Looks like someone could jump from those windows onto the highway :nuts:


----------



## Wilhem275

That actually reminds me of this scene:
http://youtu.be/Sh9FvvjE-Es?t=7m28s
starts at 7:28
(that's an Italian cult movie, may appear silly but there's a lot behind the simple humor)

That place still exists, in Rome:
https://maps.google.nl/?ll=41.890917,12.522212&spn=0.002332,0.002411&t=k&deg=180&z=19


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> The municipality of Stichtse Vecht has been sued by the public prosecutor over a fatal accident caused by poor road maintenance. 2 people were killed in 2009 when their motorcycle crashed into a tractor due to bumps in the road caused by tree roots. The bumps were about 4 - 6 cm. Test proved the motorcycle already got off the ground at 50 km/h, while the speed limit is 60 km/h.
> 
> The verdict may have far-reaching consequences for road authorities in the Netherlands, especially municipalities.


Isn't there a rule that motorist has to adapt the speed and driving to the conditions and skills in order to keep within the safety margin?

I mean, I can imagine that when an unexpected problem in the road is encountered the motorist can't react to it, however most of the problems are vivid beforehand.


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> Notice these apartment buildings almost built on top of A10 in Amsterdam.


That is indeed crazy. Ideal for a road geek, right ? I know lots of people in CZ that are arguing with the famous this could have not happened in the west... well nice picture to show them .


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interestingly it appears that the apartment building was built just before or just after the motorway opened. But back in the 1960s there was no noise regulation. Even today the left (west) apartment building has no noise barrier in front of it.


----------



## Fane40

ChrisZwolle said:


> Notice these apartment buildings almost built on top of A10 in Amsterdam.


What a pity !
How is it possible to live in this building in front of the highway ?
I hope for inhabitants they can be lodged elsewhere.
I'm sure to become mad if I have to live here.
Impossible to live with open windows without to receive pollution, cigarettes into the dinner plate,...!!


----------



## snowdog

Tbh, I'd quite gladly live there, nice n low housing prices, and I'd find sitting on my balcony looking at all the cars calming....


> That is indeed crazy. Ideal for a road geek, right ?


Exactly.

Pollution is indeed the only thing that would put me off a bit. Don't mind the noise and I love the view...


----------



## xrtn2

^^

+1 I loved the view.:cheers:


----------



## keokiracer

snowdog said:


> Tbh, I'd quite gladly live there, nice n low housing prices, and I'd find sitting on my balcony looking at all the cars calming....


+100


----------



## JB1981

Penn's Woods said:


> What actually happens at an intra-EU (particularly intra-Benelux) border crossing these days? Those are just conventional service areas that happen to be at the border (or maybe replaced the customs facilities), right?


Industrial/commercial zones on either side of the border. Mainly filled with transport-related businesses (trucking companies, truckwash, gas stations, storage facilities). Oh, and there's a "Beer Paradise" on the Belgian side if you ever need to stock up on your pints .

The former customs facilities are nowadays used as overnight truck parkings.


----------



## keokiracer

Umm, Chris. That is nowhere near Utrecht 



piotr71 said:


> Is it one of this section where they close left lane to the traffic out of peak hours.* I remember on near Utrecht*, however it had narrower and kind of bumpier left lane.


Knowing that the one of few plus lanes near Utrecht is the A27 one near Houten I thought it was that one. But rereading I noticed 'kind of bumpier left lane' and I think it's the A12 west of Utrecht. because of the difficult soil there causing the road to become _wavey_

I mean this one, on the right carriageway:









It might be relatively new, but if I remeber corectly this was always a stretch with a lot of bumps and I assume nothing changed when they built the plus lane.


----------



## Slagathor

The section Chris posted is definitely bumpy. I hate it.


----------



## piotr71

I looked at a map and I am pretty certain I used all sections posted by Chris and
keokiracer.


----------



## Neverworld

Are there any plans to upgrade the N65 between Tilburg and Den Bosch? It is a grade-level road with a speed limit of 80 and sometimes 70 km/h, between two major cities with a lot of activity. I drove from Tilburg to Den Bosch today and this stretch of road really shows you down.

Also, this on-ramp is really funny, must be the weirdest in the Netherlands. From a 30km/h to on-ramp without transition.


----------



## Road_UK

Has signposting for Den Haag permanently been replaced by Rotterdam here?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*traffic congestion down by 40%*

Once again, traffic congestion in November 2012 was down by 40% compared to 2011, the Dutch Motorist Association ANWB reports. Traffic congestion has been reduced by 40% for 5 months straight now. Additional capacity and lack of winter weather attributed to the declining level of congestion in the Netherlands in November. Traffic congestion levels are now back to the late 1990s and further investment will reduce that even more, especially in the Rotterdam area, which has not seen as many road projects as the Amsterdam and Utrecht metro areas.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Leiden*

Some recent (October 2012) aerial photos of the A4 widening at Leiden.

1. The A4 runs depressed here. There are currently 2x3 narrow lanes in one cut, the end result will feature 2x3 lanes with space for 2x5 lanes.









2. The Oude Rijn River, which was crossed by a drawbridge before the project.









3. Northern entrance in Leiderdorp (a separate municipality)









4. Widening north of Leiden.









5. Northern end of the project, at the Leiderdorp exit.


----------



## Coccodrillo

When the motorway is at ground level (Utrecht), they cover it making a sort of tunnel.

But there, where the road is below ground, it is not covered.

It's curious...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Tunnel restrictions make full tunnels much more expensive to build and operate. A tunnel is defined as 250 meters or more in the Netherlands. 

The Netherlands has very strict tunnel procedures and equipment. Nearly all recent tunnel projects ended with delays and cost overruns due to changed regulation, permits and equipment, while virtually all other road projects were finished under budget and before schedule.


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> Tunnel restrictions make full tunnels much more expensive to build and operate. A tunnel is defined as 250 meters or more in the Netherlands.
> 
> The Netherlands has very strict tunnel procedures and equipment. Nearly all recent tunnel projects ended with delays and cost overruns due to changed regulation, permits and equipment, while virtually all other road projects were finished under budget and before schedule.


They could have made several 200 meter long "no-tunnel" sections...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The N7 Tunnel in Groningen is planned to be 249 meters long


----------



## KRX_69

Very good roads in Nederlands :yes:


----------



## Coccodrillo

^^ That reminds me some new German trains (the ICx), with a maximum speed of 249 km/h because starting from 250 km/h there are stricter rules.

By the way, apparently the less tunnel there are in a country, the stricter safety rules are (United States/France/The Netherlands vs Switzerland/Italy/Norway). What about Surel's suggestion of leaving gaps in the roof every 249 m?


----------



## CNGL

I remember they wanted to build in China a skyscraper that was planned to be 299.5 meters tall  Only half a meter from supertall status. And mopeds around here often are 49 cm^3 because from 50 cm^3 you have to get a motorbike licence.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

New Waal Bridge at Nijmegen.










It will be clad with hand-laid bricks! I can't remember when the last time a bridge of this magnitude was built with bricks for decoration. The bridge is 1.400 meters long.

DSC_0017 by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr


----------



## snowdog

What will happen to the old one ? 

Or better said, what are the plans in that area overall since they ruined the A325 ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nothing will happen to the existing bridge. 1x4 lanes will remain in operation. The new bridge will feature 2x2 lanes and an appalling 50 km/h speed limit, but that's what you can expect in Nijmegen, I believe they've eliminated nearly all 70 km/h speed limits on 2x2 urban roads.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Leiden*

Another photo of the A4, south of Leiden. They will construct a very outdated configuration here, based on an early 1990s design. The new A4 will feature a weird local-express setup with 1+2+2+1 through lanes. The right of way will allow for 2+3+3+2 lanes or even 4x3 lanes. The road to the left is N11, formerly planned as the A11 towards Utrecht.


----------



## Neverworld

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nothing will happen to the existing bridge. 1x4 lanes will remain in operation. The new bridge will feature 2x2 lanes and an appalling 50 km/h speed limit, but that's what you can expect in Nijmegen, I believe they've eliminated nearly all 70 km/h speed limits on 2x2 urban roads.


Strictly enforced as well. But aren't they going to give the N325 bridge a service? It must have the worst surface of any road in the Netherlands.


----------



## da_scotty

They are, but only after the new bridge is opened. Otherwise the cross-waal traffic would need to swim a awfull lot.


----------



## snowdog

What my problem is, is why many intersections (or at least busy ones like this) aren't made free flowing as much as possible with merge lanes so that for example, all these flows would be un-interrupted:










The space is there, why hamper traffic unneccesarily. 
Bit of a bog job in paint but I think you get the point, barely uses any more space but eliminates a lot of traffic conflict! This simple adjustment would save people 2 minutes per day or more!

Pretty much any non urban intersection without cycle paths can at least eliminate all traffic lights for right turns!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Partial free-flow intersections are indeed a heavily underutilized feature in the Netherlands. I think it's part of the Dutch policy to outlaw any non-standard designs.


----------



## snowdog

Bah, accident on the A20 today, so they have to close the whole motorway.

Result: The already congested roads are completely jammed around here. It will take me probably an hour to drive over 4 km today!

How am I supposed to go to work ( orange dot) from my house ( blue dot) ? 









Have to go there in an hour .


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Come on, that's within reasonable cycling range.


----------



## keokiracer

I was just going to say that ^^. However, he might need a car for his job 



Snowdog said:


> It will take me probably an hour to drive over 4 km today!


dude, TomTom says 18 mins. And they usually overestimate in stead of underestimate


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> Come on, that's within reasonable cycling range.


If I had a (working) bicycle, it broke down.
Plus its cold outside :lol:.


Plus it takes to long when I'm done working around 11pm, cycling is 20 minutes, car is 7-10 mins with no traffic when I'm done working ( usually about 20 around this time, and about 45-50 minutes in a situation like today)
Finally, despite being an adult, my parents don't like me cycling at night.


keokiracer said:


> dude, TomTom says 18 mins. And they usually overestimate in stead of underestimate


18 mins ? That's only just possible if there is no jam, eg. the Hoofdweg or President Rooseveltweg has a free flow aside from the traffic lights.
If you take the hoofdweg on a normal weekday you're stuck near afrit terbregge for 10 minutes. 
It's 7 mins driving quick in the middle of the night where the lights jump to green.
About 15-20 mins on a normal free flowing situation during daytime.
30-45 mins when jammed. I drive this route every day four times ( evening shift, and night shift).


----------



## Warsaw spectator

snowdog said:


> usually about 20 around this time, and about 45-50 minutes in a situation like today


C'mon! Within 50 minutes you can easily walk this distance..


----------



## Jeroen669

snowdog said:


> What my problem is, is why many intersections (or at least busy ones like this) aren't made free flowing as much as possible with merge lanes so that for example, all these flows would be un-interrupted:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The space is there, why hamper traffic unneccesarily.
> Bit of a bog job in paint but I think you get the point, barely uses any more space but eliminates a lot of traffic conflict! This simple adjustment would save people 2 minutes per day or more!
> 
> Pretty much any non urban intersection without cycle paths can at least eliminate all traffic lights for right turns!


Yes, free right turns are unfortunately pretty rare, while there's often enough space for it. 

There is an even cheaper solution: allow right turns through red light, just like germany does.


----------



## Road_UK

And Austria. And the UK (left turns)


----------



## snowdog

Germany allows right turns through a red ? And UK for a left turn ? Learn something new every day !
I have no idea why those idiots here can't adopt that policy!
It makes sense on any intersection without cycle paths or pedestrian walkways!


----------



## MattN

In the UK you can never turn left through a red as such, but sometimes there will be left turn lanes which 'cut the corner' and bypass the signals.


----------



## mgk920

snowdog said:


> Germany allows right turns through a red ? And UK for a left turn ? Learn something new every day !
> I have no idea why those idiots here can't adopt that policy!
> It makes sense on any intersection without cycle paths or pedestrian walkways!


IIRC, Germany adopted the 'permissive' RToR from the former DDR (allowed if there is a green arrow tab sign by the red light on the signal head). Prior to reunification, RToR was illegal in the Federal Republic (West).

Here in the USA, most places, including my home State of Wisconsin, allow RToR at all signalized intersections unless prohibited by signs.

Mike


----------



## keber

Road_UK said:


> And Austria. And the UK (left turns)


Austria?


----------



## Jeroen669

mgk920 said:


> IIRC, Germany adopted the 'permissive' RToR from the former DDR (allowed if there is a green arrow tab sign by the red light on the signal head). Prior to reunification, RToR was illegal in the Federal Republic (West).


The green arrow isn't necessary if there's a shortcut (even if it is a very small one). In that case they also place yield signs, since the right-before-left rule doesn't apply in these situations.


----------



## snowdog

mgk920 said:


> IIRC, Germany adopted the 'permissive' RToR from the former DDR (allowed if there is a green arrow tab sign by the red light on the signal head). Prior to reunification, RToR was illegal in the Federal Republic (West).
> 
> Here in the USA, most places, including my home State of Wisconsin, allow RToR at all signalized intersections unless prohibited by signs.
> 
> Mike



That I know from Poland mainly, I didn't notice these green arrows in Germany!

I meant they should implement either the green arrows here or construct many many more shortcuts/bypasses ( or better both).


----------



## Road_UK

They should place another set of traffic lights a few metres ahead at each junction, like they do in the UK. To begin with, I always get a stiff neck when I look at the lights in Holland, waiting for them to turn green, and secondly: When you get the sun in your face there is no telling which colour they are!


----------



## snowdog

That I disagree about, the less traffic lights the better .

I'm very small though and have no problems seeing the traffic lights even way over the stopping line.


----------



## riiga

The perfect setup: http://goo.gl/maps/d1YJo
Traffic lights both near and far.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Jeroen669 said:


> ...
> There is an even cheaper solution: allow right turns through red light, just like germany does.





Road_UK said:


> And Austria. And the UK (left turns)


When did that happen? I thought turning on red was an exclusively North American phenomenon.


----------



## Penn's Woods

mgk920 said:


> IIRC, Germany adopted the 'permissive' RToR from the former DDR (allowed if there is a green arrow tab sign by the red light on the signal head). Prior to reunification, RToR was illegal in the Federal Republic (West).
> 
> Here in the USA, most places, including my home State of Wisconsin, allow RToR at all signalized intersections unless prohibited by signs.
> 
> Mike


Only place in the US that doesn't, to my knowledge, is New York City (which does permit rights-on-red at specific intersections, where there are signs saying so).

Some states permit lefts on red if both streets involved are one-way.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Gaag Aquaduct*

One of the lesser known motorway aquaducts is along A4 on the western side of Delft. It's the Gaag-aquaduct and is also one of the smaller motorway aquaducts in the Netherlands. A4 dead-ends south of here until 2015, so there is not much out-of-region traffic, adding to the obscurity of this aquaduct. Notice there is space for 2x3 lanes with shoulders.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N261 Tilburg*

I found another example of the lack of planning among some governments in the Netherlands, in this case the Tilburg municipality.

The N261 is part of the Tilburg Ring Road. Although planning already began in the early 1980s, actual construction did not start until the mid- to late 1990s. The northeastern part opened in three phases between 1998 and 2003 as a two-lane road with signalized intersections. 

Traffic data from the year after opening already revealed significant traffic congestion, 2004 data shows an intensity/capacity value of 0.95. Anything over 0.90 is considered to be chronically congested. The I/C value should be below 0.75. 

The new road was built as a two-lane facility, but roads crossing over the N261 had viaducts with space for a second carriageway. However, viaducts where N261 crosses other roads or railroads did not. Furthermore, a right-of-way for the second carriageway was not acquired during initial construction. 

The N261 is currently being widened to a 2x2 highway, similar to the N260A and N260 around Tilburg, which together form the northern beltway of this city of nearly 200,000 people. Works should be completed within a few months.


----------



## Daviedoff

A video of A73 freeway in the snow:


----------



## Slagathor

Suburbanist said:


> There are ferries from Hoek van Holland. But with both flights and Eurostar+Thalys high-speed trains, the market for ferries is probably going waay downwards.


To frigging Harwich, which is no good. The old Olau Line used to do Vlissingen - Sheerness. Now that was awesome.


----------



## Road_UK

Suburbanist said:


> There are ferries from Hoek van Holland. But with both flights and Eurostar+Thalys high-speed trains, the market for ferries is probably going waay downwards.


No it`s not. People still want to be able to bring their own vehicles to Britain/Continent, and even though SeaFrance has gone up the wall, P&O and DFDS are still very much in the game when it comes to passenger, car and truck crossings... 

Eurotunnel is not always reliable, often expensive and subjected to a lot of delays. That's why we only use it when we're desperate.


----------



## sotonsi

Slagathor said:


> To frigging Harwich, which is no good. The old Olau Line used to do Vlissingen - Sheerness. Now that was awesome.


Harwich at least has direct train services to useful places and isn't much further away from London than Sheerness (and much closer to most of the big cities/tourist areas in the UK). Plus - while the Essex coast is bad - Sheerness as the first bit of England you see close up is "I want to go back home!" territory.

Then again Sheppey, as a marshy flat low-lying sheep-covered cesspool might be acceptable to the Dutch :lol:


----------



## Road_UK

Essex coast is not all that bad, as long as you avoid places like Southend and Thurrock...

I have always found Harwich quite charming...


----------



## Slagathor

sotonsi said:


> Harwich at least has direct train services to useful places and isn't much further away from London than Sheerness (and much closer to most of the big cities/tourist areas in the UK). Plus - while the Essex coast is bad - Sheerness as the first bit of England you see close up is "I want to go back home!" territory.
> 
> Then again Sheppey, as a marshy flat low-lying sheep-covered cesspool might be acceptable to the Dutch :lol:


What good is a train when I've come by car on a ferry?

Boats are slow so the shorter the distance the better.


----------



## Suburbanist

If you want to take your car, isn't best to drive to Calais and cross there in a short time instead?


----------



## Road_UK

Suburbanist said:


> If you want to take your car, isn't best to drive to Calais and cross there in a short time instead?


Yep, that is what I always do.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Does your boss let you choose your own routes - "get to city X by noon Wednesday and don't spend more than X on fuel and tolls" - or specify them for you?


----------



## Slagathor

Suburbanist said:


> If you want to take your car, isn't best to drive to Calais and cross there in a short time instead?


Not when we lived in the Vlissingen/Middelburg area in the 1980s and early 1990s, no. 

These days that would be the quickest thing to do. If you don't need your car, the quickest thing to do is to drive to Lille.


----------



## Road_UK

Nah, I choose my own routes, and sometimes even divert when I have time to visit friends and family. He encourages us to put our foot down, and using toll roads is never a big deal, although he does sometimes asks us to go the extra 100 miles via Brenner when going to Italy, instead of the expensive route through France and Mont Blanc.


----------



## Des

ChrisZwolle said:


> One of the lesser known motorway aquaducts is along A4 on the western side of Delft. It's the Gaag-aquaduct and is also one of the smaller motorway aquaducts in the Netherlands. A4 dead-ends south of here until 2015, so there is not much out-of-region traffic, adding to the obscurity of this aquaduct. Notice there is space for 2x3 lanes with shoulders.


That is a huge waste of money: look at the solid concrete bridge which is max 1,5 meters high a few meters away from the Aquaduct. They could have build a highway bridge instead of an aquadact, although maybe at the time it was build they were still expecting huge ships to use the canal :nuts:

https://maps.google.nl/?ll=51.99015...=reQXPovlu20fLJO2t1hWVA&cbp=12,275.42,,0,4.82


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 's-Hertogenbosch - Eindhoven*

The widening of A2 to 2x3 lanes. Near the town of Best (which means the same in Dutch as it does in English).


----------



## Agnette

Chris, would You say what is the source of aerial photos in your posts? :shifty:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A208 in Haarlem appears to be history... A part was already downgraded in 2009, but now it disappeared from the signs entirely.












Agnette said:


> Chris, would You say what is the source of aerial photos in your posts? :shifty:


Most of the are from the _Rijkswaterstaat Beeldbank_. Some are from other sources. The last one was from Twitter.


----------



## Godius

ChrisZwolle said:


> Most of the are from the _Rijkswaterstaat Beeldbank_. Some are from other sources. The last one was from Twitter.


I didn't know that Rijkswaterstaat had a public archive like this, thanks for letting me know about it.


----------



## mappero

^^

*English copyright notice*

The intellectual ownership of the image material lies with Rijkswaterstaat, the executive arm of the Dutch Ministry of Infrastructure and the Environment. No additional costs are associated with copyright, although it is mandatory to acknowledge the source with each publication: https://beeldbank.rws.nl, Rijkswaterstaat.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Badhoevedorp Bypass*

The construction of a new alignment of A9 motorway around Badhoevedorp (near Amsterdam) has been contracted yesterday.

Construction will commence in the fall of 2013 and should be completed in 2017, after which the existing 2x2 motorway through the town of Badhoevedorp will be demolished. The new motorway will feature 2x3 lanes. Apart from the new motorway, the Badhoevedorp Motorway Interchange will be entirely rebuilt into a massive spaghetti interchange.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1/A6 Amsterdam - Almere expansion*

In addition to the Badhoevedorp Bypass project (see previous page), a € 1 billion subproject has been tendered east of Amsterdam today. It includes the expansion of the A1 and A6 motorways between the Diemen Motorway Interchange with A9 and the city of Almere. 

The widening includes a new alignment of A1 with 12 lanes (5+2+5) including a two-lane reversible, a new aquaduct, which is the widest in the world, and a new Hollandish Bridge between Noord-Holland and Flevoland provinces, which will become the widest bridge in the Netherlands with 14 lanes.


----------



## snowdog

I'm still opposed to the principle of demolishing old roads!

The old road should still exist (even if just a local road, and don't let duurzaam debiel touch it!), along with the new road. You don't demolish roads imho! (re: Badhoevedorp)

If it was me, the old road with be a 1x5 motorway in 1 direction, with the new one being a 1x6 or 1x5 lane road in the other direction!


----------



## da_scotty

snowdog said:


> I'm still opposed to the principle of demolishing old roads!
> 
> The old road should still exist (even if just a local road, and don't let duurzaam debiel touch it!), along with the new road. You don't demolish roads imho! (re: Badhoevedorp)
> 
> If it was me, the old road with be a 1x5 motorway in 1 direction, with the new one being a 1x6 or 1x5 lane road in the other direction!


On one of your rants again? hno:


----------



## Road_UK

snowdog said:


> I'm still opposed to the principle of demolishing old roads!
> 
> The old road should still exist (even if just a local road, and don't let duurzaam debiel touch it!), along with the new road. You don't demolish roads imho! (re: Badhoevedorp)
> 
> If it was me, the old road with be a 1x5 motorway in 1 direction, with the new one being a 1x6 or 1x5 lane road in the other direction!


Glad it's not you.


----------



## Neverworld

snowdog said:


> I'm still opposed to the principle of demolishing old roads!
> 
> The old road should still exist (even if just a local road, and don't let duurzaam debiel touch it!), along with the new road. You don't demolish roads imho! (re: Badhoevedorp)
> 
> If it was me, the old road with be a 1x5 motorway in 1 direction, with the new one being a 1x6 or 1x5 lane road in the other direction!


That's just not necessary.

Moreover, I'm sure the people of Badhoevendorp are happy that the motorway in their town disappears, which means a better life for them.
Governments should aim for improving infrastructure all the time, not just adding it. Sure, in the Netherlands improving infrastructure often means adding lanes due to the neglect of the last 2 decades, but in this case improving it is not only adding lanes, but also choosing a more logical route.


----------



## da_scotty

Neverworld said:


> That's just not necessary.
> 
> Moreover, I'm sure the people of Badhoevendorp are happy that the motorway in their town disappears, which means a better life for them.
> Governments should aim for improving infrastructure all the time, not just adding it. Sure, in the Netherlands improving infrastructure often means adding lanes due to the neglect of the last 2 decades, but in this case improving it is not only adding lanes, but also choosing a more logical route.


Don't bother telling him, he has Asphalt running through his veins. There is no reasoning with this guy!hno:


----------



## Luki_SL

ChrisZwolle said:


> In addition to the Badhoevedorp Bypass project (see previous page), a € 1 billion subproject has been tendered east of Amsterdam today. It includes the expansion of the A1 and A6 motorways between the Diemen Motorway Interchange with A9 and the city of Almere.
> 
> The widening includes a new alignment of A1 with 12 lanes (5+2+5) including a two-lane reversible, a new aquaduct, which is the widest in the world, and a new Hollandish Bridge between Noord-Holland and Flevoland provinces, which will become the widest bridge in the Netherlands with 14 lanes.


Great project How long will be this new alignment of A1 with 12 lanes (5+2+5)?


----------



## Neverworld

From here to here. The two-lane reversible will join the normal A1 after the A1-A6 interchange.

Do mind though that the A9 will be reconstructed as well, so it isn't a simple road widening just for that stretch of the A1.


----------



## woutero

I'm pretty sure the reversible lanes will connect to the A6 toward Almere. The A6 will get a major overhaul as well with a 2+2+2+2 local/express setup in Almere.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The part between Muiderberg and Almere will feature a slightly different configuration, with a reversible ending at the southern side of Almere and then the 4x2 setup through Almere.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N348 Dieren*

The N348 provincial road runs directly through the town of Dieren (which, on a side note, literally means "animals"). The Gelderland Province has published the design record of decision to build a depressed open cut with 1x2 lanes to bypass a few traffic signals and reduce the impact of traffic on the adjacent properties. The adjacent railway will remain at-grade though, so there is no "Nijverdal solution" here. 

The choice for a 1x2 depressed road is critized for being a suboptimal solution, especially in the long term, because this part of N348 already carries over 20.000 vehicles per day. 2x2 lanes would be more future-proof. The A48 motorway was planned to bypass Dieren in the 1970s, but was never built.


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ This illustrates well the double standards of ROW intrusion. A multi-track rail yard + wide station poses no problem, whereas a 2-lane road is seen as problematic.


----------



## g.spinoza

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ This illustrates well the double standards of ROW intrusion. A multi-track rail yard + wide station poses no problem, whereas a 2-lane road is seen as problematic.


Maybe, if you think in terms of local pollution, it can be understandable: train does not pollute, cars do.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Location of the N348.









Just about 2 kilometer south of Dieren is the northern terminus of the A348 provincial motorway (A48 prior to 1993). As you can see it was planned to continue north. However, two bridges across the IJssel River would have been necessary.









Just north of Dieren is the Brummen Bypass, which has motorway standard.












g.spinoza said:


> Maybe, if you think in terms of local pollution, it can be understandable: train does not pollute, cars do.


Air quality is not an issue in the Netherlands. Only about 10 kilometers of inner-city streets out of a 120.000 kilometer road network have particle or NOx concentrations above the thresholds.


----------



## Wilhem275

A single train may generate way more noise than a road vehicle (even if modern passenger trains are a lot better), but it's not continuous as road traffic.

Personally I hate the neverending "swoosh" noise of road traffic.


----------



## Suburbanist

g.spinoza said:


> Maybe, if you think in terms of local pollution, it can be understandable: train does not pollute, cars do.


Only if you are speaking or air exhausts.

Trains do generate noise pollution (more than cars, but they get away with laxer noise standards for political reasons), and they create the anathema of Dutch planning, e.g., "intrusions" that "sever" cities.


----------



## g.spinoza

ChrisZwolle said:


> Air quality is not an issue in the Netherlands. Only about 10 kilometers of inner-city streets out of a 120.000 kilometer road network have particle or NOx concentrations above the thresholds.


I'm not questioning your good faith, but I find that hard to believe.


----------



## Surel

g.spinoza said:


> I'm not questioning your good faith, but I find that hard to believe.


The Netherlands is very windy.


----------



## Road_UK

g.spinoza said:


> I'm not questioning your good faith, but I find that hard to believe.


It's also not true. For years there has been political discussions about speed limits on the Amsterdam and Rotterdam ring roads for that very reason. They have finally pushed it back up from 80 to 100 km/h again, resulting in another court case pending to bring it back down to 80 due to air quality.


----------



## g.spinoza

Surel said:


> The Netherlands is very windy.


I was about to ask what your secret was... I guess this is the answer


----------



## Sunfuns

Cycling has an additional public health benefit of keeping people more fit and reducing obesity. I'm all for it whenever feasible. Netherlands is a perfect location for it (flat, rarely too hot or too cold), but we here is Switzerland also cycle quite a bit. 

As for statistical discussion above I think measuring car/public transport share as % of trips makes more sense than measuring passenger kilometers. The latter method tends to give some very skewed results in cities.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It depends what you count as a "trip". Usually the share of walking is very high, but it's a bit too far to include it in general transporatation if you're talking about posting a letter or walking your dog for a few hundred meters.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Toll roads in the Netherlands*

I made a little map showing current and future toll roads in the Netherlands.


----------



## Sunfuns

ChrisZwolle said:


> It depends what you count as a "trip". Usually the share of walking is very high, but it's a bit too far to include it in general transporatation if you're talking about posting a letter or walking your dog for a few hundred meters.


Sure, but I meant mostly for commuting to work and back. One could hardly walk a dog with a car :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Sunfuns said:


> One could hardly walk a dog with a car :lol:


Americans can :lol:


----------



## mapman:cz

Sunfuns said:


> One could hardly walk a dog with a car
> :lol:


Sorry to continue this OT, but: Don't underestimate laziness of some people, we've seen such cases already: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIxLkAmmArY


----------



## Suburbanist

Sunfuns said:


> As for statistical discussion above I think measuring car/public transport share as % of trips makes more sense than measuring passenger kilometers. The latter method tends to give some very skewed results in cities.


Are you advocating "cooking the numbers" just to fit nicely into a model you want validated? That would get you (or anyone else) hammered in a scientific conference in transport, for instance.

Measuring a share of trips or measuring a share of km-passenger are not aiming at capturing the same underlying phenomenon. For that to occur, you'd have to assume all modes of transportation are interchangeable for all trips (e.g., it is feasible to walk, cycle, drive a car, ride a train or use an airplane for every trip you are taking).

Since they are not, you can't advocate to use one or other measure as "better" regardless of what are you trying to analyse.

Passenger-kilometer is an accurate measure when you are comparing the density (mathematical sense) of some hypothetical function that describes how a certain vector of Origin-Destination is going to be "solved" (the coefficients being something like propensity to chose mode a/b/c/d holding everything else the same).

Measuring share of all trips doesn't inform the reader on the length effects over mode choice. 10 walking trips of 400m each will count more than one 11000km air trip (to keep an extreme example).

When you are analyzing some phenomenon (say, commute), you need to hold exogenous variables the same. It is a basic principle of interpreting the practical meaning of statistics (and of experimentation for that matter). Since length of a trip is not an exogenous factor in regard of mode split, using count share is essentially introducing a lot of noise and non-random component on the error term in your model, to speak in semi-technical lingo.

Urban planners, however, sometimes out of naivity, sometimes out of pure data manipulation, like to dismiss passenger-kilometer as a valid metric (in other words, they like to remove trip length as an exogenous factor) because they want to "flatten" their analysis considering all trips the same regardless of distance (a proposition that doesn't hold things the same, but fits well their implication that the shorter trips are, the better because it implies people are living in a more compact city).

That could even be the case if people had feasible choices or deciding whether to take an airplane to the gym 1km away, or whether to walk and swim over the ocean for an overseas family holiday. Even if you only consider home-work-home trips, there isn't a perfect overlap: bicycle use, for instance, even in a context of dedicated infrastructure, is severely constrained by topography and weather. Very few people will use cars for a 200m commute. All major contemporary forms of "transit" are subject to severe network geometry and scale constraints that will make them useless for a number of paired work-home relation in any given area.

This logical flaw would be the same as, for instance, some hospital system measuring costs of treatment of patients on a per-patient basis, ignoring their length of stay in a hospital bed, thus making a hospital that performs mostly elective eye surgery or aesthetic body implants look much more efficient than a maternity specialized in pre-term babies that stay there, each one, for weeks instead of days.


----------



## Sunfuns

Suburbanist said:


> Are you advocating "cooking the numbers" just to fit nicely into a model you want validated? That would get you (or anyone else) hammered in a scientific conference in transport, for instance.
> 
> Measuring a share of trips or measuring a share of km-passenger are not aiming at capturing the same underlying phenomenon. For that to occur, you'd have to assume all modes of transportation are interchangeable for all trips (e.g., it is feasible to walk, cycle, drive a car, ride a train or use an airplane for every trip you are taking).
> 
> Since they are not, you can't advocate to use one or other measure as "better" regardless of what are you trying to analyse.
> 
> Passenger-kilometer is an accurate measure when you are comparing the density (mathematical sense) of some hypothetical function that describes how a certain vector of Origin-Destination is going to be "solved" (the coefficients being something like propensity to chose mode a/b/c/d holding everything else the same).
> 
> Measuring share of all trips doesn't inform the reader on the length effects over mode choice. 10 walking trips of 400m each will count more than one 11000km air trip (to keep an extreme example).
> 
> When you are analyzing some phenomenon (say, commute), you need to hold exogenous variables the same. It is a basic principle of interpreting the practical meaning of statistics (and of experimentation for that matter). Since length of a trip is not an exogenous factor in regard of mode split, using count share is essentially introducing a lot of noise and non-random component on the error term in your model, to speak in semi-technical lingo.
> 
> Urban planners, however, sometimes out of naivity, sometimes out of pure data manipulation, like to dismiss passenger-kilometer as a valid metric (in other words, they like to remove trip length as an exogenous factor) because they want to "flatten" their analysis considering all trips the same regardless of distance (a proposition that doesn't hold things the same, but fits well their implication that the shorter trips are, the better because it implies people are living in a more compact city).
> 
> This logical flaw would be the same as, for instance, some hospital system measuring costs of treatment of patients on a per-patient basis, ignoring their length of stay in a hospital bed, thus making a hospital that performs mostly elective eye surgery or aesthetic body implants look much more efficient than a maternity specialized in pre-term babies that stay there, each one, for weeks instead of days.




Ok, a more elaborate answer. The method I advocated is better then looking for a certain kind of information (passenger kilometers might well be preferable for something else). In this case I was interested into looking how people living in a city commute to work. 

Just to illustrate let's do a small thought experiment. Imagine that in a certain company in a midsize city with a good public transport there are 100 employees with the following ways of commuting to work: 15 of them live so close that they walk to work (average distance 750 m), 10 cycle (average distance 2.5 km), 20 use a tram or a city bus (3 km), 20 use suburban trains (15 km), 35 drive (25 km). 

If we look it as a share of trips it's all very easy - 25% walk or cycle, 40% use public transport and 35% drive. How about share of passengers kilometers? It's slightly more complicated, but still trivial to compute that the entire distance covered by those 100 people is 1271.25 km of which driving is 69%, public transport 28% and cycling/walking 3%. 

In my opinion the first method gives a more honest picture of commuting patterns. Also notice that passenger kilometers are highly susceptible to statistical outliers. I assumed 25 km average for those who drive, but what about if there are 3 crazy guys who drive 120 km every day? Suddenly a share for driving "magically" jumps by about 5%. Those 5% don't really mean anything for town planners.


----------



## xrtn2

ChrisZwolle said:


> I made a little map showing current and future toll roads in the Netherlands.


Fantastic map, but I thought these were no-tolled.


----------



## da_scotty

xrtn2 said:


> Fantastic map, but I thought these were no-tolled.


Grey being Un-Tolled?
Only 2/5 red links have been build yet, these are tolled links


----------



## keokiracer

da_scotty said:


> Grey being Un-Tolled?


Yes!









Oh, and to add to Chris' list, but impossible to put on the map. The Tolled bridge Nieuwerbrug in (how original :lol Nieuwerbrug where someone actually still has to open the gate for you.


----------



## Neverworld

Why is the Killtunnel tolled by the way? I would be really annoyed by that if I lived in 's Gravendeel and had to commute to Dordrecht. There's no valid alternative.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I believe they wanted to construct a toll-free tunnel in the late 1960s, similar to the 1968 Heinenoord Tunnel. However, there was a widening of the "Dordtsche Kil" waterway planned, which made the plans more expensive, so they went for a toll tunnel.

The Kil Tunnel opened on the exact same day as the nearby 4-tube Drecht Tunnel in Dordrecht by the way. The Kil Tunnel becomes toll free if there is an incident in the Drecht Tunnel. Traffic is then detoured via A29 and Kil Tunnel.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

E312 is nowhere near Zwolle! :lol:


E312 Zwolle by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A28 Amersfoort turns 50 years*

Today it's exactly 50 years ago the first part of the A28 motorway opened to traffic. An 8 kilometer section opened around the city of Amersfoort on 17 December 1962.


















photos: Beeldbank Rijkswaterstaat

Frequent readers of this thread know this is currently one of the most congested roadways in the Netherlands and is currently being widened with "plus lanes".


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A28 Amersfoort - Utrecht*

The third lane between Amersfoort and Utrecht finally opens to traffic tonight. The lane was completed since early summer, but procedures for widening were not completed yet (the widening was executed under the umbrella of "maintenance"). 

There is now 15 kilometers of 3 lanes from the Maarn exit to the Rijnsweerd motorway interchange, westbound only. The 3rd lane from Rijnsweerd to Maarn (eastbound) will open in mid-January after works at the Zeist noise awning are completed.


A28 Soesterberg 30-06-2012-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 's-Hertogenbosch*

How a road can change in 10 years...

Prior to 2002, the A2 around 's-Hertogenbosch (Den Bosch) had 2x2 lanes. It was widened to 2x3 lanes in 2002 and 4x2 lanes in 2009.

pre-2002:









2009:


----------



## Attus

^^
I like this kind of your photos, a lot of lanes for twenty cars ;-)


----------



## g.spinoza

ChrisZwolle said:


> 2009:


How does that work? Are there signs separating through traffic from local one, before the motorway splits? Are motorways completely independent?


----------



## Suburbanist

g.spinoza said:


> How does that work? Are there signs separating through traffic from local one, before the motorway splits? Are motorways completely independent?


Yes. 

It. They split 2+2+2+2 sector is around 7km long.

"Local" lanes cater for A59 (East and West) interchanges and two local junctions. Central lanes are through.

In Eindhoven they have a similar setup, but the segregated sector is much longer and they call the collector/local lanes "N2" (central through lanes: "A2").


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*2012 end of the year video*

I made an "end of the year video" about road projects in the Netherlands. Many projects have been completed so a chronological compilation is presented in this video:


----------



## Suburbanist

keokiracer said:


> Interchange Oudenrijn also has 2 cloverleaf connectors. If I'm not mistaken that's the busiest interchange in the country.


More than Prins Clausplein?


----------



## keokiracer

Not sure. I thought it was. But can't check now. My source website is offline because of what I assume are technical problems.


----------



## Slagathor

ChrisZwolle said:


> I made an "end of the year video" about road projects in the Netherlands. Many projects have been completed so a chronological compilation is presented in this video:


Cool video!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N233 Rhine Bridge, Rhenen*

An agreement has been made that a tidal lane will be constructed on the N233 Bridge at Rhenen. This bridge crosses the Rhine River and is the most used two-lane road in the Netherlands with nearly 32 000 vehicles per day. It was constructed in 1955 on the bridgehead of an older railway bridge. The tidal lane should open in 2016.


----------



## keber

I thought that in Europe those lanes were more or less abandoned because of safety and traffic organization concerns.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Air quality keeps improving in the Netherlands*

The latest governmental air quality report shows that air quality continues to improve in the Netherlands. Average concentrations of nitrogen oxide (NO2) and particles (PM10) continue to decline. There are still a few bottlenecks though, especially in city centers and around intensive farming. 

The NO2 limit of 40 µg/m³ (enforced from 2015) is exceed along only 0.5 kilometers out of the 5 050 kilometer national road network and 11 kilometers of the 131 085 kilometer general road network. The 2015 PM10 limit is exceeded along 22 kilometers of the entire Dutch road network.

Further improvement is expected with the latest generation of Euro VI engines, which are subsidized for public transport buses, the main source of urban pollution (at locations above the limits). Their NO2 emissions are 90% lower than that of older generation engines. The government will also discontinue waiving road tax for oldtimers over 25 years old because an increasing amount of 1980s cars are used for daily transportation to circumvent the road tax. 

The two main pollutants are NO2 (nitrogen) and PM10 (particles). The base level of NO2 is low, but traffic adds quite a bit (especially diesel engines). The base level of PM10 is high, but traffic does not add a lot to it.


----------



## Suburbanist

Which is the widest and/or deepest acquaduct over road in The Netherlands?

Also, an incidental question: are there any aquaduct-over-rail here?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> Also, an incidental question: are there any aquaduct-over-rail here?


See my current avatar. (A4 / high-speed rail north of Leiden). Another one is the Gein aqueduct in Abcoude (Utrecht - Amsterdam 4-track railway, incredible waste of money).


----------



## xrtn2

ChrisZwolle said:


> I made an "end of the year video" about road projects in the Netherlands. Many projects have been completed so a chronological compilation is presented in this video:


Fantastic compilation, these highways are very modern.


----------



## Suburbanist

Old newsreel about Kleinpolderplein interchange: http://www.openbeelden.nl/media/54113/Groot_verkeerscircuit


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> See my current avatar. (A4 / high-speed rail north of Leiden). Another one is the Gein aqueduct in Abcoude (Utrecht - Amsterdam 4-track railway, incredible waste of money).


I would like to ask you, why do you think that the railway is waste of money? Is it just this case or do you consider railway in the Netherlands as not really feasible? thx.


----------



## keokiracer

No, the aqueduct in the railway is a waste of money, because it crosses the smallest brook ever..
https://maps.google.nl/maps?q=Abcou...8453,0.195007&t=h&hnear=Abcoude,+Utrecht&z=18


----------



## aswnl

^^
A _brook_ ?
It isn't even as big as a ditch...


----------



## Surel

keokiracer said:


> No, the aqueduct in the railway is a waste of money, because it crosses the smallest brook ever..
> https://maps.google.nl/maps?q=Abcou...8453,0.195007&t=h&hnear=Abcoude,+Utrecht&z=18


Oh, ok. I get it now. Bad reading. THX.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes. It's entirely over the top, but in line with the late 1990s / early 2000s extravagant designs with little technical need. A culvert would have been sufficient here...









Photo Nico Spilt


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Dutch edge city*

I was playing around with some CBS data and found some interesting stuff. An "edge city" is usually considered to be an American thing, a suburban city with a high job-population ratio, usually quite far from the core city.

The Netherlands also has such a place. It's called the Haarlemmermeer municipality, built at the bottom of a former lake. Although it is known for Schiphol Airport and the suburbs of Amsterdam, this municipality is actually the only significant edge city of the Netherlands. Its job-to-population ratio is 0.99, which means there are 99 jobs for every 100 inhabitants. This is significantly above the Amsterdam ratio, which has 69 jobs for every inhabitants. Even if you would exclude employment at Schiphol Airport, the job-to-population ratio is still substantially higher than in other suburban municipalities around Amsterdam.










Besides Schiphol Airport, there are two major employment centers, namely Beukenhorst and Schiphol-Rijk. Both are chiefly office locations. 

As a result, Haarlemmermeer has very high traffic volumes for the population size. The N201 provincial road carries nearly 70 000 vehicles per day while having very little through function. It is a six-lane arterial. The A4 carries 190 000 vehicles per day. There are currently works going on to add a new exit to A4 and moving the existing Hoofddorp exit.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N50 Kampen-Noord*

The new Kampen-Noord interchange opened to traffic yesterday along N50 (Zwolle - Emmeloord). It can only be used by traffic to and from Zwolle. 

Althought the 2022 forecasted AADT is only 2 170 vehicles per day, the on-ramp strangely enough features a ramp meter...


Toeritdosering N50 Kampen-NOord by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Big infrastructure meets big infrastructure. 12-lane A15 meets 10 railway tracks at Rotterdam.


----------



## Vliegtuigbouwert

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yes. It's entirely over the top, but in line with the late 1990s / early 2000s extravagant designs with little technical need. A culvert would have been sufficient here...


Maybe it has something to do with the policy to slowly abandon level rail crossings, and don't add new ones? Then there was the choice to either build a bridge or dive under.


----------



## julesstoop

So the left has to take the blame for the successful lobby of wealthy farmers and ex-urbanites? Now this is interesting.


----------



## Palance

aswnl said:


> Wel, it's good that snowdog just tells the truth here.


Your truth and his truth, not *the* truth... Furthermore, an other opinion is not the problem, but the way it is brought definetily is, IMHO.


----------



## sotonsteve

MattN said:


> Is it really on a much bigger scale? I think that Dutch planning (postwar to present) works a lot better than ours has on the whole, much of the architecture too, though there was a lot of senseless destruction and it's nowhere near as unspoiled a country as some have been suggesting in the UK skybar.


Dutch post-war architecture is on a bigger scale in terms of quantity, because just like infrastructure, housing development is held back by planning big time in the UK.

The Dutch have some fantastic transport infrastructure, and some fantastic ideas about transport. They also have some ridiculous ideas. In the UK we have looked to the Dutch for inspiration quite a bit over the years, and some aspects we have copied have been good Dutch ideas and others have been ideas that would have better remained the other side of the channel.

It is madness that the Dutch would tunnel through open countryside when they would be less likely to tunnel close to a population centre. What I would say though is that the Dutch appear to be really flash with cash when it comes to transport, and it's almost as if no expense is spared. I say no expense spared, but transport projects in the Netherlands cost a fraction of what they do in the UK, as a large proportion of our money is lost on bureaucracy. The Dutch get infrastructure built far more efficiently, and they get far more for their money.

Congestion is a big problem in the Netherlands, but it is no surprise given population density. Having said that, Britain is very congested, because our motorway network is skeletal and inadequate, and off the motorway our roads resemble eastern Europe in the way that they are generally very low quality. The Dutch have it good. The UK is a prettier place to live, but that's because most of the UK isn't flat and boring.


----------



## Slagathor

^^ As I recall England's population density is roughly similar to that of the Netherlands. Not to mention that we haven't got any settlement along the lines of London that we must try to keep mobile.


----------



## Sunfuns

ChrisZwolle said:


> The 1990s policy (already starting in the late 1970s) was that transportation policy should be done in a way so that everything should shift to public transport. Several megaprojects were funded during this time, like the high-speed rail, Betuwe freight railway and some local rail transport.
> 
> However, no such shift was ever recorded, in fact the car gained a larger share in the modal split during the 1990s. All this money did not reach its goal of getting people from cars into public transport and reducing car traffic or even the share of road traffic. Public transport boomed in the 1990s though, especially after they introduced unlimited free travel for students, which currently account for about 35 - 40% of all public transport mileage.
> 
> It wasn't until the early to mid-2000s that some realism got back into politics, especially with traffic congestion increasing by 10% annually for two decades in a row. However, several road projects were designed in the 1990s but are only currently executed, which means some still have a substandard design such as A4 at the southern side of Leiden with its weird local-express setup and the lack of capacity on the A4 Delft - Schiedam link.
> 
> The 1990s were not completely devoid of road projects though. Though large-scale capacity expansion did not occur (mostly shoulder running), they for instance did replace several large bridges in A2.


I think there are several societal forces working in different directions here. Public transport boomed and so did driving because the wealthy societies in the Western Europe are becoming more and more mobile. Almost all adults are either studying or working and people these days are rarely working in the same place for decades therefore it's more difficult to live close to work. Population is still growing and housing very close to core cities is not affordable to many people thus requiring longer commutes. In addition improvements in infrastructure, both roads and public transport, attract extra traffic by themselves. 

It's all to the good mostly. Good infrastructure, efficient financing and good education is that keeps us competitive with much cheaper reagions.


----------



## MattN

sotonsteve said:


> Dutch post-war architecture is on a bigger scale in terms of quantity, because just like infrastructure, housing development is held back by planning big time in the UK.
> 
> The Dutch have some fantastic transport infrastructure, and some fantastic ideas about transport. They also have some ridiculous ideas. In the UK we have looked to the Dutch for inspiration quite a bit over the years, and some aspects we have copied have been good Dutch ideas and others have been ideas that would have better remained the other side of the channel.
> 
> It is madness that the Dutch would tunnel through open countryside when they would be less likely to tunnel close to a population centre. What I would say though is that the Dutch appear to be really flash with cash when it comes to transport, and it's almost as if no expense is spared. I say no expense spared, but transport projects in the Netherlands cost a fraction of what they do in the UK, as a large proportion of our money is lost on bureaucracy. The Dutch get infrastructure built far more efficiently, and they get far more for their money.
> 
> Congestion is a big problem in the Netherlands, but it is no surprise given population density. Having said that, Britain is very congested, because our motorway network is skeletal and inadequate, and off the motorway our roads resemble eastern Europe in the way that they are generally very low quality. The Dutch have it good. The UK is a prettier place to live, but that's because most of the UK isn't flat and boring.


When you consider that the HSL tunnels, the cutting/tunnel for the new A4 section etc run through protected landscapes, surrounded by densely populated urban areas and partly given to recreation, I think that they make sense. Especially with the motorways, it's not just the visual impact but the enormous levels of noise that they produce that can significantly degrade such places. And yet, on the whole there is greater countryside access (especially for walking) in the UK.

I agree that projects are of a high quality but the cuts are having an impact on transport. A particularly strange decision is the disproportionate cuts to public transport in the largest cities compared with everywhere else.

I don't think that flat necessarily means boring either and it's surely a matter of taste. I find beauty in the flat Dutch landscapes and they differ significantly from our flat areas like the Fens, which are generally a lot harsher. The Netherlands does have a variety of landscapes, not just flat farmland (although there's enough variety amongst that!), but the UK does have a greater variety and some more immediately awe-inspiring ones.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

MattN said:


> Especially with the motorways, it's not just the visual impact but the enormous levels of noise that they produce that can significantly degrade such places.


Nearly the entire Dutch motorway network is paved with porous asphalt. As a result, it has by far the most quiet motorway traffic in the world. There are many locations where traffic is not loud even close to the motorway. It's worth experiencing how quiet 12 lanes of traffic are at Abcoude.


----------



## Suburbanist

MattN said:


> I agree that projects are of a high quality but the cuts are having an impact on transport. A particularly strange decision is the disproportionate cuts to public transport in the largest cities compared with everywhere else.


Most of the cuts in transportation invovled recuding bus services. I would say 70% of the cuts were made on bus routes. And that is because the Dutch government was clever enough to realize cutting capital projects while ignoring those that require ongoing operational subsidization is a bit of a shortsighted approach.

The road system and national rail can pay for their ongoing costs with fees/tax surcharges collected directly upon their users. However, buses are huge money losers. And, frankly, there was and still is an excessive bus network in Den Haag, Rotterdam and Amsterdam. Rotterdam did already cut a lot of bus mileage, many of it duplicating the very good (for the city cize) tram and subway network. Amsterdam could well cut half of its bus mileage and consolidate a couple of its tram lines and still have the save coverage (only requiring more transfers).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N251 Aardenburg Bypass*

Aardenburg is a small town in Zeeland province, not far from the border with Belgium. They finally constructed a bypass around this town, it opened a few days ago.

The new road starts around 1:00





The former N251 was completely unacceptable for a primary provincial road.


----------



## Attus

^^ Is the continous double white median line really needed?


----------



## Eric Offereins

^^ It creates a bit more distance between the lanes.


----------



## keokiracer

It doesn't have to be continuous to create that extra distance.

Thank _Duurzaam Veilig_ for the overtaking ban...


----------



## MattN

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nearly the entire Dutch motorway network is paved with porous asphalt. As a result, it has by far the most quiet motorway traffic in the world. There are many locations where traffic is not loud even close to the motorway. It's worth experiencing how quiet 12 lanes of traffic are at Abcoude.


I'd love to, perhaps you know of a youtube clip or something that could demonstrate it in the meantime? Nonetheless, I'm pretty sure that you would notice a huge difference between having all that traffic above ground and under it.

Suburbanist. There is a balance to be struck between capital projects and ongoing subsidisation, but I think your post is motivated more by your ideological bent than anything else. Cut too much of what is already there and you degrade its usefulness to people more than new stuff increases it. There is very little duplication between modes in the Netherlands as it is and a cursory glance at the cuts that have taken place will confirm that the removed buses, as a rule, provided links that otherwise don't exist. Yes, I'm sure you could cut more and require massive detours via city centres, more interchanges adding about 5 mins to the journey each time etc, but as I'm sure you know this would also reduce the usefulness of the network a lot further. The quieter services feed passengers into the major ones. Incidentally, a lot of tram routes have been cut too especially in Rotterdam, and more seem to be on the horizon.

I don't advocate huge cuts to rural public transport either, but nonetheless I find it strange that the biggest cuts have been reserved for the largest cities, which presumably have the greatest potential for public transport use.


----------



## Road_UK

keokiracer said:


> It doesn't have to be continuous to create that extra distance.
> 
> Thank Duurzaam Veilig for the overtaking ban...


Are you and snowdog related?


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ AFAIK, they didn't reduce significantly the total number or tram trackage in Rotterdam, they just truncated some routes and reduced frequency.


----------



## keokiracer

Road_UK said:


> Are you and snowdog related?


Not that I know of. You don't have to be related to share (part of) an opinion.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A7 Afsluitdijk*

A nice photo from the Afsluitdijk (enclosure dam) between Noord-Holland and Friesland, before it's been widened to a motorway.


Netherlands - Enclosing **** by roger4336, on Flickr


Afsluitdijk by vk2gwk - Henk T, on Flickr


----------



## Road_UK

keokiracer said:


> Not that I know of. You don't have to be related to share (part of) an opinion.


It's that duurzaam veilig crap...


----------



## snowdog

Road_UK said:


> It's that duurzaam veilig crap...


Duurzaam veilig is crap to our roads. It is completely disrecpectful to the fortune car owners pay in tax. Not only will we use your money to destroy roads, we will destroy them in such a way that they destroy your car and slow you down!


Perfectly good roads ruined with speed bumps, chicanes, made smaller, and downgraded. Not only is it unnecessary, it is money better spent elsewhere!

I don't see the same rubbish abroad, in Poland many provincial roads pass through villages, for example in Garwolin ages ago, the main road used to pass through town. They built a road around it, now everyone uses that road, not because they ruined the original one, that one's still there, but because the new road is a better and faster alternative...

Nobody in their right mind thought ''hey, lets place a lot of speedbumps and chicanes'', or downgrading the road in any other way in Garwolin...
You don't need a step back to justify a step forward elsewhere...

Like the couple of 2x2 road in NL downgraded to 1x2, do you not think car drivers would appreciate a nice 2x2 road to continue driving on, despite the alternative ?


----------



## Suburbanist

Dutch going the Italian way with signaling... 


Leeuwarden by eurograd, on Flickr


----------



## Suburbanist

Vintage ANWB sign


Leeuwarden by eurograd, on Flickr


----------



## MattN

That reminds me: Someone I used to work with looked after this 100 year old woman, when she died they cleared her house out and found a 1930s Dutch tourist brochure in English. I was given it. It's quite funny to see some of the language, interesting photos as well.


----------



## kek4la

Here's a video of the newly opened section of A5:




A few observations:
- Good signage, customized for temporary situation.
- 80km/h speed limit is a bit brutal, even A10 West has 100km/h half of the day. Perhaps this is temporary, due to A5 ending at Westpoort for now.
- A5 does not feed Amsterdam Nieuw-West, neither through N200 nor through any other options. Osdorpweg upgrade or a continuation of De Alpen mght be future choices?
- In that regard, A5 was probably built as the express choice from Amsterdam North to South Holland, keeping A10 West for local traffic.
- 2x2 might prove not enough after a while, if long distance traffic is comparable to local traffic on A10 West, which is 3x3, yet it is mostly jammed during rush hours.
- Long urban viaduct towards A10. It goes through an industrial area, but still it is weird to see that in the Netherlands.


----------



## keokiracer

kek4la said:


> - 80km/h speed limit is a bit brutal, even A10 West has 100km/h half of the day. Perhaps this is temporary, due to A5 ending at Westpoort for now.


 It was political compromise to set the max. speed at 80 km/h. Once it is proven that 100 km/h is possible without exceeding air quality limits it will be altered to 100 km/h. This was done to speed up the construction.



kek4la said:


> - 2x2 might prove not enough after a while, if long distance traffic is comparable to local traffic on A10 West, which is 3x3, yet it is mostly jammed during rush hours.


 The Basiswegviaduct (the section that still is still U/C) can be changed to 2x3 lanes (not 3x3 ), the other new part of the A5 can be relatively easy widened to 2x3 if the need is there. More worrying is that the older part of the A5, between interchanges Raasdorp and De Hoek is estimated to carry 100.000 vehicles on 2x2 in 2022 (?). Not sure which year it was predicted for. But 100.000 vpd is waay too much for 2x2 lanes. To compare: the Coentunnel carries 110.000 vehicles on 2x2 lanes. The bad news is that the oldest part of the A5 is much harder to widen. For instance this tunnel was not built for future widening to 2x3. 2x3 could be possible, but with narrower lanes. 
Fun fact (thanks to Chris ): in the 90's the A5 was originally planned as 2x1 road! Imagine if they had built that :nuts:



kek4la said:


> - A5 does not feed Amsterdam Nieuw-West, neither through N200 nor through any other options. Osdorpweg upgrade or a continuation of De Alpen mght be future choices?


 The exit with the N200 was not built because - according to the Haarlemmerliede municipality - it would create too much traffic in Halfweg, where the A200 ends and N200 begins.
There was another exit planned, as can be seen on this map:








Which is also the reason there currently are only exits 2 and 3. Number 1 is being reserved for this possbile future exit.


----------



## keber

keokiracer said:


> Thank _Duurzaam Veilig_ for the overtaking ban...


Means that overtaking in Netherlands is/will be possible only on multilane roads?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, more or less. Not all provinces follow the guidelines to ban passing on every road though.

I always feel the policies for Duurzaam Veilig (sustainable safety) are made from a Randstad point of view where passing is not possible most of the day anyway due to heavy traffic and 60 km/h is often a reasonable speed on narrow minor rural roads. However the situation is quite different in the east and north of the country and especially Flevoland province with its straight roads for many kilometers. You can't expect people to crawl along with 60 km/h there.


----------



## Neverworld

Or as you say the national roads in the North and East (N35, N46 and such) where 100km/h is allowed but where the amount of trucks is sufficiently high to guarantee that you won't go over 85km/h without overtaking.

Or of course quiet roads like this, where some people like to drive slowly to look around and some people just want to go from A to B. Being allowed to overtake takes away so much frustration both for slow and fast driver. Luckily I've noticed on some roads like this overtaking is not banned, even after reconstruction, but it varies a lot per province.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Uitwijkroutes - Detour Routes*

The Netherlands copied another thing from Germany, the so-called "U Routes" (Uitwijkroute) or Detour Routes. They were introduced a number of years ago but are almost never used in practice. 

Here's one integrated on a non-redesign guide sign in Wijhe, Overijssel. The IJssel River is in the background.


N337 U32 Wijhe by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ Water levels very high over there


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Council of State issued a verdict on two road cases today.

The A9 Badhoevedorp Bypass is partially annulled because of some minor errors (a wrong indication of an overpass on a map and a wrong damage compensation agency). The construction of the motorway however, has not been annulled and can likely proceed as planned.

All appeals against the twinning of N33 between Assen and Zuidbroek to 2x2 lanes have been rejected. This means construction can commence full force in the spring.


----------



## snowdog

keokiracer said:


> The bad news is that the oldest part of the A5 is much harder to widen. For instance this tunnel was not built for future widening to 2x3. 2x3 could be possible, but with narrower lanes.


Or by dropping the hard shoulder for the tunnel (and if needed, slightly narrower lanes)? 

Easiest solution imo...


----------



## keokiracer

snowdog said:


> Or by dropping the hard shoulder for the tunnel (and if needed, slightly narrower lanes)?


That was exactly what I meant


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*

An aerial photo of the A4 under construction in Schiedam. Note that these houses were built after the right-of-way of A4 was reserved. These people living there were lucky the motorway wasn't constructed 45 years ago with no noise protection at all and are currently lucky excessive public spending is done to prevent noise (i.e. building an unnecessary tunnel from a legal point of view).


----------



## Suburbanist

*Algerabrug*

This is probably one of the worst road bottlenecks in The Netherlands... 

Video by DeRaaf


----------



## SkyView

[/QUOTE]

Is this a Moscow suburb ? :nuts:


----------



## keokiracer

Nope, just Schiedam  You should see some pics of Amsterdam-Zuidoost


----------



## snowdog

Suburbanist said:


> This is probably one of the worst road bottlenecks in The Netherlands...
> 
> Video by DeRaaf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> " frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>


----------



## Road_UK

I know the area a little bit from the brief time that I've worked there, so I know a little bit of what you're talking about. I bet it's Chinese for anyone else...


----------



## keokiracer

Not for me, but just to be sure for others. It's here.

I can remember a traffic cam on the roundabout just north of the Algerabrug, but I think it's not available anymore.


----------



## Suburbanist

They should extend the A15 stub in Riddekerk to Capelle aan de IJssel


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ChrisZwolle said:


> Traffic congestion was down by 40% in 2012, the largest decline ever recorded. At the same time the amount of kilometers traveled is at an all-time high. Traffic congestion levels are now down from 16 million kilometer minutes in 2007 to 9 million kmmin in 2012. The largest decline in 2012 was in the Amsterdam region, where traffic congestion declined by a spectacular 50%.


The Traffic Information Center VID has also some additional information.

According to the VID, the claim that the yearly congestion declined was influenced significantly by economic decline and good weather has been debunked by a joint Arcadis and VID study, which shows nearly all of the congestion decline can be attributed to new highway capacity. 

Dutch Motorist and Tourist Association ANWB continuously claimed good weather and lack of economic growth contributed significantly to the decline in traffic congestion. ANWB has been critized a lot in recent years for not putting enough effort in supporting motorist-friendly policy. Apparently the components of motorist lobbying and recreation lobbying does not go well together within this organization. For instance it has backed some dubious plans, such as the Oranje Tunnel as opposed to the Blankenburg Tunnel near Rotterdam. The Blankenburg Tunnel was obviously the best choice from a traffic engineering point of view. 

The average traffic jam length declined only marginally in 2012, but the number of traffic jams and the duration declined significantly. The age where morning rush hour seamlessly merged into the afternoon rush appears to be over. While a few years ago traffic congestion was still rampant after 10 or even 11 a.m., nearly all congestion has solved after 9 a.m. these days.


----------



## snowdog

I quit my ANWB membership this year, specifically noting I regret the fact they do not represent the interests of motorists...

It's a shame really, the wegenwacht service is probably the best out there, but the organization behind it, the ANWB, are a bunch of lying anti car idiots...


> Some pics captured on Rotterdam ring road.


Haha I often chill on the parking of that company from which the pics are taken. Great remote place at night to chill with a couple of mates and blast some music and because of the shape of the building, not windy .


> The road will have practically no use and the viaduct in the road is not in very good condition.


Shouldn't be a reason to SPEND MONEY on demolishing it...

Keeping the road will do no harm ? Viaduct can be closed sending all the traffic through the on/offroads...


----------



## keokiracer

snowdog said:


> I quit my ANWB membership this year, specifically noting I regret the fact they do not represent the interests of motorists...
> It's a shame really, the wegenwacht service is probably the best out there, but the organization behind it, the ANWB, are a bunch of lying anti car idiots...


 Get the Wegenwacht away from the ANWB. I'd be very curious as to how many people would stay a member.




snowdog said:


> Keeping the road will do no harm ? Viaduct can be closed sending all the traffic through the on/offroads...


Nope, incomplete exit.
https://maps.google.nl/?ll=51.578736,4.327068&spn=0.008547,0.024376&t=h&z=16


----------



## snowdog

keokiracer said:


> Get the Wegenwacht away from the ANWB. I'd be very curious as to how many people would stay a member.


Indeed, I'd immediately rejoin the wegenwacht, I've personally had to do with them only once in the 2 years of my membership, but my parents and friends have been helped many times very well by them. They will always either fix the problem or tow/transport your car home or to a garage!



> Nope, incomplete exit.
> https://maps.google.nl/?ll=51.578736,4.327068&spn=0.008547,0.024376&t=h&z=16


Whatever they do, it should be the absolute cheapest and most useful/practical option. If that is just demolishing the viaduct and making a roundabout instead ( opposed to destroying the whole road), then they should be doing that imo. Hell, even making it a cycle ''freeway'' or finding some other way to exploit the road would be better than destroying a road...

Destroying roads is something barbarians did when the Western Roman Empire was falling!


----------



## keokiracer

snowdog said:


> If that is just demolishing the viaduct and making a roundabout instead ( opposed to destroying the whole road), then they should be doing that imo.


Apparently there was a little miscommunication, but that's what I meant. Destroying the whole road is plain retarded because all traffic would have to go straight through Steenbergen.


----------



## Road_UK

This Dutch guy snowdog is giving me the creeps.


----------



## Suburbanist

@Roak_UK: you DRIVE vehicles for a living, but you are staunchly against roads. Isn't a bit selfish want roads that serve yours, but not anyone's else travel needs?


----------



## Road_UK

Suburbanist said:


> @Roak_UK: you DRIVE vehicles for a living, but you are staunchly against roads. Isn't a bit selfish want roads that serve yours, but not anyone's else travel needs?


Not really. I get from A to B on a near perfect infrastructure throughout western Europe and I don't go whining all day about road closures


----------



## woutero

snowdog said:


> I quit my ANWB membership this year, specifically noting I regret the fact they do not represent the interests of motorists...
> 
> It's a shame really, the wegenwacht service is probably the best out there, but the organization behind it, the ANWB, are a bunch of lying anti car idiots...


Interesting... I never joined the ANWB because they DO actually act as an interest/lobby group for car owners, and continuously claim they represent the interest of their 4 million members. 

I want them to repair my car when I get stranded, but I don't want to be represented by them in any way.


----------



## kosimodo

Due to the fact that they are a member organisation they are relativly cheap. 

It has some benifits!


----------



## piotr71

A short report covering part of N62.









Welcome to the Netherlands, country inhabited by tallest people in the world.

IMGP4885 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP4888 by 71piotr, on Flickr

New motorways' speed limit applied.

IMGP4889 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP4890 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP4892 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP4894 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP4899 by 71piotr, on Flickr

Red light passing camera.

IMGP4900 by 71piotr, on Flickr

Pretty complex drawbridge infrastructure.

IMGP4903 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP4905 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP4907 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP4908 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP4909 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP4910 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP4912 by 71piotr, on Flickr

6.6 km under the water. Brrr..

IMGP4913 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP4919 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP4920 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP4921 by 71piotr, on Flickr

Toll plaza.

IMGP4923 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP4925 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP4928 by 71piotr, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The southern part of N62 will be widened to 2x2 lanes in the coming years. All interchanges will be grade-separated. In addition they are boring the Sluiskil Tunnel south of Terneuzen, which will also feature 2x2 lanes. And then they are also upgrading N62 north of the Westerschelde Tunnel to A58 to 2x2 lanes. Which means a full expressway from A58 to the Belgian border. 

By the way you can see that some Dutch signmakers don't understand English well enough. It's toll tunnel, not tolltunnel. But it's not as a bad as the "Amstel Bussiness Park" sign I posted earlier.


----------



## Wilhem275

Being a foreigner, may I use the Credit Card boot or should I stick to the manned one?


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ You can go to the credit card lane (if you have one).


----------



## Slagathor

You can use all of them except "ABONNEE" (subscription).


----------



## -Pino-

ChrisZwolle said:


> By the way you can see that some Dutch signmakers don't understand English well enough. It's toll tunnel, not tolltunnel.


In NL, they sometimes speak of English disease when people start using spaces unnecessarily. You would see "tol tunnel" rather than the correct "toltunnel", based on English spelling rules (and spelling checkers that react incorrectly to combined words). There is some irony in this sign maker going Dutch with the words "toll tunnel"...


----------



## piotr71

Delft - Rotterdam and around...

1.

IMGP5055 by 71piotr, on Flickr

2.

IMGP5056 by 71piotr, on Flickr

3.

IMGP5057 by 71piotr, on Flickr

4.


IMGP5058 by 71piotr, on Flickr

5.

IMGP5059 by 71piotr, on Flickr

6.

IMGP5060 by 71piotr, on Flickr

7.

IMGP5061 by 71piotr, on Flickr

8.

IMGP5062 by 71piotr, on Flickr

9.

IMGP5065 by 71piotr, on Flickr

10.

IMGP5067 by 71piotr, on Flickr

11.

IMGP5068 by 71piotr, on Flickr

12.

IMGP5071 by 71piotr, on Flickr

13.

IMGP5072 by 71piotr, on Flickr

14.

IMGP5073 by 71piotr, on Flickr

15.

IMGP5075 by 71piotr, on Flickr

16.

IMGP5076 by 71piotr, on Flickr

17.

IMGP5077 by 71piotr, on Flickr

18.

IMGP5078 by 71piotr, on Flickr

19.

IMGP5079 by 71piotr, on Flickr

20.

IMGP5080 by 71piotr, on Flickr


----------



## piotr71

IMGP5081 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP5082 by 71piotr, on Flickr

A man is carried by a woman?! I want a Dutch girl!

IMGP5084 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP5086 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP5087 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP5091 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP5092 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP5093 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP5094 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP5095 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP5099 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP5100 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP5102 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP5104 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP5106 by 71piotr, on Flickr


----------



## piotr71

On motorway again.

IMGP5107 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP5108 by 71piotr, on Flickr

I was trying to get to my hotel and did not know that sticking to the main carriageway was not good choice, I should rather continue on service road on the right. However, thanks to the mistake I could see that bridge from the other side.

IMGP5109 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP5110 by 71piotr, on Flickr

I could see this stack junction as well. Impressive!

IMGP5111 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP5114 by 71piotr, on Flickr

And the bridge.

IMGP5115 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP5117 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP5119 by 71piotr, on Flickr

That's it


----------



## KRX_69

Great fotos :yes: The Netherlands is a country that liked to visit, i like the roads and road signs in NL. I have one question, what means those numbers in information board (ex: Havens 200-9900)? :cheers:


----------



## Slagathor

Road_UK said:


> We have lots and lots and lots of snow here and...
> 
> - they keep the roads clear
> - trains run on time
> - kids go to school
> - everyone is having a great time


Until it starts to melt and half of England will, once again, have to share their living rooms with a river.


----------



## keokiracer

I thought he was talking about Mayrhofen (Austria)?


----------



## Road_UK

keokiracer said:


> I thought he was talking about Mayrhofen (Austria)?


Yes I am. Never mind England, they panic even more than the Dutch do.


----------



## Wilhem275

I'm surprised winter tires are not used around there. Apart from snow days, what's the average temperature in Dutch winters?


----------



## Slagathor

Road_UK said:


> Yes I am. Never mind England, they panic even more than the Dutch do.


They do? That's disappointing.

I guess the roughly equal population density could be a root cause.



Wilhem275 said:


> I'm surprised winter tires are not used around there. Apart from snow days, what's the average temperature in Dutch winters?


It tends to hover around +5 degrees with considerable rainfall. Actual snow and freezing temperatures never extend much longer than 2 weeks in January/February.


----------



## Road_UK

Wilhem275 said:


> I'm surprised winter tires are not used around there. Apart from snow days, what's the average temperature in Dutch winters?


It's encouraged, and more and more people in the Netherlands do fit them on. In the UK it's practically unheard of.


----------



## Road_UK

Slagathor said:


> They do? That's disappointing.
> 
> I guess the roughly equal population density could be a root cause.
> 
> It tends to hover around +5 degrees with considerable rainfall. Actual snow and freezing temperatures never extend much longer than 2 weeks in January/February.


In England, instead of clearing the roads, they close a lot of them. Trains stop running due to the wrong type of snow (an excuse a high ranking official actually used), schools close, airports close or flights are subjected to long delays or cancellations (as I found out at Innsbruck airport yesterday with all planes originating from the uk), and motorists will eventually abandon their vehicles on the hard shoulder and walk home. And there is me blasting on lane 3 with my winter tyres 

Edit: Google wrong type of snow.


----------



## piotr71

Road_UK said:


> It's encouraged, and more and more people in the Netherlands do fit them on.


I noticed it too. I was even told on this forum, after asking a question about the reason why, that probably Dutch people, who travel abroad (Alps), use them.



> In the UK it's practically unheard of.


Plenty of Scots and foreigners, living in the UK, use winter tyres there.


----------



## da_scotty

Then again, Scots are the most capable people in the UK!


----------



## KIWIKAAS

piotr71 said:


> I noticed it too. I was even told on this forum, after asking a question about the reason why, that probably Dutch people, who travel abroad (Alps), use them.


That's absolutely the case.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Winter tires are increasingly common. About 31% had them in 2011 and 39% in 2012. Most people who go on ski holidays abroad have winter tires, especially since it's more or less obligatory in Germany. 

I do not have winter tires. I don't drive a lot in the winter (I have driven less than 100 km since 1 January) so it's not worth it. I go to work by bicycle and can plan shopping and social visits around the worst winter weather.

Snow chains are prohibited in the Netherlands by the way.


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> Snow chains are prohibited in the Netherlands by the way.


Snow chains are useless in the Netherlands because there are no hills and anyway the roads are never covered in 5+ cm of hard snow and ice.

The winter tires on the other side are extremely helpfull in any snow or winter slippery conditions. Furthemore they are also very helpfull in the low temperatures around or under 5 degrees, especially when the road gets wet. The summer tires get already stiff in such temperatures and stop working properly.

But I reckon that mostly only the people that go foreign in the winter have them around here. The all year tire could be an compromise option for the thrifty Dutch.


----------



## keber

ChrisZwolle said:


> Snow chains are prohibited in the Netherlands by the way.


So if you're stuck on the road in the snow there is no legal way to save yourself? Stupid at least.


----------



## Ni3lS

Road_UK said:


> Yes I am. Never mind England, they panic even more than the Dutch do.


No shit.. The Tescos over here got raped the same day when the news came out about possible snowfall. Snowshovels, de-icer, everything was sold out haha


----------



## flierfy

keber said:


> So if you're stuck on the road in the snow there is no legal way to save yourself? Stupid at least.


When you get stuck in snow it is you who've done something basically wrong and look utterly stupid. The legal way to get freed in such a case is to call for a rescue vehicle I suppose. It is certainly no reason to ruin the surface of public roads by mounting snow chains.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

Snow chains are indeed meant for mountain roads not highways. Estonia has plenty of snow every winter yet nobody uses snow chains over here. Winter tyres are compulsory, though.


----------



## keokiracer

flierfy said:


> When you get stuck in snow it is you who've done something basically wrong and look utterly stupid. The legal way to get freed in such a case is to call for a rescue vehicle I suppose. It is certainly no reason to ruin the surface of public roads by mounting snow chains.


I was going to type something about this too, but it'd just be a copy of this  kay:


----------



## Surel

flierfy said:


> When you get stuck in snow it is you who've done something basically wrong and look utterly stupid. The legal way to get freed in such a case is to call for a rescue vehicle I suppose. It is certainly no reason to ruin the surface of public roads by mounting snow chains.


When you get stuck in snow in the Netherlands than the road maintenance service did something terribly wrong or you were not driving on a normal road... I can't imagine someone would need snow chains around here even if it fell 50 cm of snow.

btw just experienced major power grid blackout around this place.


----------



## snowdog

keber said:


> So if you're stuck on the road in the snow there is no legal way to save yourself? Stupid at least.


I don't see how you can get completely stuck in the first place, perhaps on an incline but that's it! You can always just keep your wheel spinning, make the temerature go up, melt the ice/snow beneeth your wheels, and you have grip after a while! Otherwise just swing forward backward forward backward until you get some momentum then just get out...


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> Snow chains are prohibited in the Netherlands by the way.


Only the Police and rescue services are allowed to use them to my knowledge. I have seen snow chains on their vehicles more then once when the road conditions were very icy.


----------



## Slagathor

snowdog said:


> I will move though if I get a nice(r) job offer in pretty much any country than here.


So you're applying to jobs abroad? Whereabouts have you been looking?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A16 Ridderkerk*

The A16 motorway in (presumably) the early 1950s at Ridderkerk. The road looks drastically different today, with a stack interchange and 18 lanes. The photo was taken from the old Bolnes - Barendrecht road, looking north.









_Photo: Rijkswaterstaat archives_


----------



## flierfy

snowdog said:


> Bureaucracy is far worse here in Holland though. Want to build a garage on YOUR OWN LAND, you still need a permit and it will often be rejected because ''it doesn't fit in the street''. You need a permit for just about everything... You buy expensive land, then have to hire expensive people to design and build it for you... Abroad, you buy a piece of land, build your own house for about 50k euros in total, no nonsense.


For €50'000 you won't get a house of the quality you are used to. Neither will a country, which allows everyone to build on his land what ever he likes, provide you the necessary infrastructure to support your way of life. Wherever you go you have to sacrifice plenty of amenities just to avoid the stringent planning authority of your current home country. Your wish seems Bonkers to me. But then again is every man the artisan of his own fortune.


----------



## snowdog

flierfy said:


> For €50'000 you won't get a house of the quality you are used to. Neither will a country, which allows everyone to build on his land what ever he likes, provide you the necessary infrastructure to support your way of life. Wherever you go you have to sacrifice plenty of amenities just to avoid the stringent planning authority of your current home country. Your wish seems Bonkers to me. But then again is every man the artisan of his own fortune.


Perhaps, but I hate the type of housing ''eengezinswoning'' ( but not as much as the old mid density housing like found in the big cities, you know the 4 story high apartments) they usually build in NL, I much prefer standalone houses + a bit of land, even if they are smaller inside.


For example :
http://dom.gratka.pl/tresc/402-8615641-lubelskie-szczebrzeszyn.html#2fc056dbe70516a7,1
Is someting I'd love to have, for 60k euro's I won't even get a house here, I can buy a small lot of land for that money in Holland.
Add couple of thousand to build a small concrete road to the garage, some fences, a bit of gardening, and done...

Infrastructure like city heating ( or gas mains) , water, etc... I prefer to be cheaper out and just have my own well, buy gas bottles every so often for cooking, coal or wood for the winter, small electric water heater for taking a shower, etc...

Electricity and broadband is a different matter, they are indeed necessary...

Road infrastructure, yeah, I see your point, but it's far from ideal in NL, countries like Poland are definitely catching up... In PL you have potholes and rut, in NL you have speedbumps, bollards and chicanes, both equally bad for the motorist...

The strict planning authority here creates terrible same looking neighbourhoods, soms like it, some don't, I prefer variation, lots of different standalone houses...

For me to buy a house I'd like in in Holland, I'd need around 200.000 euros at least. I don't particularly need a large house, I just want a standalone house, with a bit of land, a couple of sheds for my junk, a garage for my car, etc...

I am biased though, pretty much my whole family on my mothers side, have all built their own homes to their liking...

I am going a bit offtopic though, perhaps I'll make a thread somewhere else, but the main problem in Holland are the rules and regulations to even the smallest things, how you need a permit to build a small roof for your car or so in your own garden on your own land is taking it too far, or how the municipality can decide whether its ok or not to park your car in your garden ( some neighbourhoods it's not allowed to use your own bloody garden as a driveway, wtf...). I don't see the same kind of nonsense even in the UK ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A7 Afsluitdijk*

The _Afsluitdijk_ (enclosure dam). Date unknown, possibly 1950s.


----------



## crimio

In Holland are the best motorways from Europe!


----------



## KRX_69

Nice pictures :yes:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Best*

An ecoduct across the A2 at Best, just north of Eindhoven. This part of the motorway is currently being widened to 2x3 lanes.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^It's shaped like a dog's bone. Not that the animals will notice, or care.


----------



## Wilhem275

I find it funny that both humans and animals have traffic separated lanes :lol:


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> The A16 motorway in (presumably) the early 1950s at Ridderkerk. The road looks drastically different today, with a stack interchange and 18 lanes. The photo was taken from the old Bolnes - Barendrecht road, looking north.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Photo: Rijkswaterstaat archives_


Fantastic picture. But seeing the curve in the A16 I would think we are looking in the southern direction. But the shadows tell the story that the direction is good. I have a very hard time finding the exact spot where this picture was taken.


----------



## keokiracer

Approximately here. This viaduct was at the place where the Ridderkerk-Noord stack currently is. The bridge this pic was taken from, doesn't exist aymore.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It was taken from this bridge, A16 curves a bit to the right there. The map is dated 1958. The bridge was likely demolished in the late 1960s when A15 was constructed.


----------



## da_scotty

Jeee, looks a little different now!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2/A67 Leenderheide interchange*

An aerial photo of the A2/A67 Leenderheide interchange, looking north. This interchange was rebuilt between 2006 and 2010, allowing a free-flow bypass of A2 traffic. Prior to reconstruction, only east-west traffic across A67 was free-flow. 









_Photo: Rijkswaterstaat archive_


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N62 Sluiskil Tunnel*

The boring of the Sluiskil Tunnel near Terneuzen has started today. They assembled the tunnel boring machine in late 2012 and commenced boring today at 3 p.m. It will take approximately 110 days to bore the first (northern) tube, after which the southern tube will be bored after the summer in approximately 95 days. This is only the third bored road tunnel in the Netherlands. It's a relatively short tunnel with a length of 1.3 kilometers.

The tunnel is part of the project to widen all of N62 in Zeeland to a 2x2 expressway.


----------



## Kaaskop

Neverworld said:


> Unfortunately with every government measure the future is sacrificed to maintain some short term generosity, instead of realizing and accepting that the past age is gone. There is no population increase anymore, the number of working people as a ratio of old and young people will decrease.


Actually, this is incorrect. The CBS forecasts an population growth of a million the coming twenty years. You are correct about the old and young ratio, though this will reach is peak around 2040 and decrease afterwards. 
(http://www.cbs.nl/NR/rdonlyres/DB34...2bevolkingprognoselangerlevenlangerwerken.pdf)

By the way, The Netherlands is way below the EU average if it comes to ageing.
(http://www.nationaalkompas.nl/bevolking/vergrijzing/verschillen-internationaal/)



> There's a reason the Netherlands is currently doing very badly in all kind of peer tests. Purchasing Power Parity, consumer confidence, growth prospects and figures, you name it. The only thing in which we are leading is effective tax rate.


Yes, there is indeed a reason: global economic stagnation. 

Very badly? Compared to a few years ago: yes. Compared to other European nations: no. The Netherlands still has one of the most healthy economies of Europe. For example, The Netherlands is one of only four AAA rated Euro-nations, has one of the lowest public debts in the EU, a huge trade surplus, one of the lowest unemployment rates, the highest human development index of the EU (third in the world), and so on. The only factor that's a bit lagging behind is the private consumption.



> The government is like a driver trying to maintain a constant speed with a stopped engine. On a downhill slope you can keep it up for a while, sacrificing height, but eventually they will reach rock bottom.


What do you propose? Should the government increase its spendings? Japan tried that during the nineties after their economy was caught in a recession. It didn't work out quite well: the Japanese economy never fully recovered and their public debt to GDP ratio reached 230% (compared to 65% in The Netherlands). I'm not trying to say that the Dutch government is doing the right thing, I'm just trying to state that it this isn't a simple issue. Even among the most respected economists there is a lot of disagreement. 



> As a result I shall emigrate as soon as possible.


Your choice. To what nation by the way?


----------



## Kaaskop

snowdog said:


> Yep, highly disappointing and stupid, infra projects are very profitable investments generally ( excluding 2 big rail investments recently haha) !
> 
> I'm actually thinking to emigrate for other reasons, too many old people for to few young is the cause, but the reasons that make me want to leave are mainly the rules and regulations that come from that, the time of freedom is long gone... The whole municipal layer of management is unnecessary imo, 75% of the APV in the average municipality can be scrapped imo... Combine that with extremely inflated real estate and land prices...
> 
> For the price of a ****hole appartement here, you get a massive villa and piece of land in Spain or Poland...


See my post above, ageing in the Netherlands is way below the EU-average.

By the way, according to the so-called "World Freedom Index 2013" the Netherlands ended second if it comes to freedom. Only New Zealand scored better.

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uplo...ions/ch3-an-index-of-freedom-in-the-world.pdf


----------



## Kaaskop

snowdog said:


> For the price of a ****hole appartement here, you get a massive villa and piece of land in Spain or Poland...


Depends. Apartments in Warsaw can be very costly. For example, this 80 square meter apartment costs 440.000 Euros:
http://www.mamdom.com/apartment-forsale-srodmiescie-30688.htm

On the other hand, this free standing house in The Netherlands costs only 89.000 euros:
http://www.funda.nl/koop/holwerd/huis-48465620-ternaarderdyk-1/

Comparing apples to oranges.


----------



## snowdog

Kaaskop said:


> Depends. Apartments in Warsaw can be very costly. For example, this 80 square meter apartment costs 440.000 Euros:
> http://www.mamdom.com/apartment-forsale-srodmiescie-30688.htm
> 
> On the other hand, this free standing house in The Netherlands costs only 89.000 euros:
> http://www.funda.nl/koop/holwerd/huis-48465620-ternaarderdyk-1/
> 
> Comparing apples to oranges.


'
Still no own land, garage, etc...

I don't like the style either, but that's nitpicking I guess, I just don't like the 
NL&UK style brick housing... And it's in Friesland, a bit far from everything.



Kaaskop said:


> See my post above, ageing in the Netherlands is way below the EU-average.
> 
> By the way, according to the so-called "World Freedom Index 2013" the Netherlands ended second if it comes to freedom. Only New Zealand scored better.
> 
> http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uplo...ions/ch3-an-index-of-freedom-in-the-world.pdf


It depends on what freedom, yeah you can smoke a joint here, or be gay, or whatever. Those things don't apply to me though, if I start buying up cars ( my hobby) and working on them in my yard, the neighbours or the government would complain, that is not a problem I'd have there, my family all have their own land and can do whatever they like on it, nobody would care, here we have a big front yard I'd love to use as a driveway, but the Gemeente Capelle ad IJssel, won't give us the rights to do that :bash:, nor would most of the people here like it, it's a different culture, people here like to complain about everything... NIMBY is far worse here, and the municipality has too many rules for just about everything, because of some problems from a minority you aren't even allowed to drink a beer in many streets around here!



Kaaskop said:


> Your choice. To what nation by the way?


I thought about moving to Poland, but I don't like the influence of the church there, but having two nationalities, it would give little trouble to move to there ( I've never lived there being born in the NL but I hold the Polish nationality too), then again, I've not 100% liked it there either... But to summerise, I like the NL atm more than PL, but the NL have been moving in the wrong direction for the past couple of years now imho ( PvdA, SP and GL influence), while PL has been moving in the rigth direction. It'll probably take PL 10-15 more years till I'd seriously consider living there. But if I'd get a nice internship for my study there, I'd gladly move there temporarily, see how it is to live there now for half a year. 


In NL, I have my parents in Rotterdam and Capelle ad IJssel, I'd be looking for something in the area of that, the cheapest house I liked was 197k near Strijen... 

In PL, I have family living in Warsaw, Lublin and Garwolin, anything near that is fine too...

As I said, I'm biased because most of my family there have built beautiful houses for themselves ( my mothers side, rural areas near Garwolin) or live the the heart of Warsaw in bigger appartements than we live here ( fathers side).
Aside from that, I'd love to move to Canada, seems like a nice country for me. I considered the US but they seem to backwards politically still, I'm very right winged compared to the average Dutch, but I still think The Republicans there are a bunch of morons, and the Democrats should be far more liberal still... The UK seems nice in a way too, somewhere in the north, but the UK also has an odd political climate imho.


About Motorways here, I find it a shame the government doesn't see (the PvdA side) how new roads are a good investment, especially with the congestion going on here. And how they go bonkers protecting small bits of grassland used for nothing but cows. It's almost easier to build roads here in an urban area politics wise than in rural cowland, which is a shame imo...


----------



## Road_UK

UK would probably be the easiest for you. Especially in the north you can rent a bedsit (to start with) fairly easy and there are plenty of (unskilled) jobs available. If you don't have any particular qualifications, then Canada and the US might be a bit of a hassle to get into. 

But moving to a different country because you don't like the political climate in the Netherlands seems a bit odd to me. It's still a free country and you've got everything you need...

But in any case, as a EU citizen you are entitled to live and work anywhere within the EU plus Switzerland and Norway. . A lot of people still don't know that. I'd give Spain a miss. Sure, property is cheap, but what would you do for work?


----------



## snowdog

Road_UK said:


> UK would probably be the easiest for you. Especially in the north you can rent a bedsit (to start with) fairly easy and there are plenty of (unskilled) jobs available. If you don't have any particular qualifications, then Canada and the US might be a bit of a hassle to get into.
> 
> But moving to a different country because you don't like the political climate in the Netherlands seems a bit odd to me. It's still a free country and you've got everything you need...
> 
> But in any case, as a EU citizen you are entitled to live and work anywhere within the EU plus Switzerland and Norway. . A lot of people still don't know that. I'd give Spain a miss. Sure, property is cheap, but what would you do for work?


I'm still a Computer Systems Engineering student, and probably still will be for the next 2 years, but work is widely available pretty much everywhere for programmers...

The rules and regulations are annoying me, both personally and in general, I'd like to be able to do as I please on my property... Aside from that I'm a road geek I guess and love driving around, and I can't say this country has the most positive attitude to cars...


----------



## da_scotty

You have USA all over you:
- No proper intercity public transport (except in cities)
- road loving, petrol heads
- Wide roads, going straight through cities
- Anti-goverment-influence republican voting options!
- Cheap houses
- No problem with aging inhabitants as there is no public pension system

Now can we please focus on Dutch roads and not about SnowDogs rants and future?


----------



## Penn's Woods

da_scotty said:


> You have USA all over you:
> - No proper intercity public transport (except in cities)
> - road loving, petrol heads
> - Wide roads, going straight through cities
> - Anti-goverment-influence republican voting options!
> - Cheap houses
> - No problem with aging inhabitants as there is no public pension system
> 
> Now can we please focus on Dutch roads and not about SnowDogs rants and future?


Um, we do have Social Security and employee pensions. What the hell do they tell you all over there about us?

(But Verso, if you're reading this thread, that's not a "freak-out.")

:cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*

Piling of the A4 motorway between Delft and Schiedam has begun today, marking the start of the actual construction of the 7 kilometer missing link between Den Haag and Rotterdam. Preparatory works have been done in the past 2 years, including removing the entire embankment which was built in 1968-1969. The new motorway will open to traffic in 2015.


----------



## EPA001

^^ Great news! :cheers:


----------



## EPA001

keokiracer said:


> Approximately here. This viaduct was at the place where the Ridderkerk-Noord stack currently is. The bridge this pic was taken from, doesn't exist aymore.





ChrisZwolle said:


> It was taken from this bridge, A16 curves a bit to the right there. The map is dated 1958. The bridge was likely demolished in the late 1960s when A15 was constructed.


Thanks keokiracer and ChrisZwolle for your answers. Now I know exactly where it is. I am just not old enough to have seen that bridge since I was born just before the bridge was demolished. It is obvious that I was born in that area (Ridderkerk) and still live in the same area.


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## Suburbanist

^^ So the are where the De Kuip sits was a collection of farms? I thought there were docks and quays there....


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## keokiracer

They were all just a tad bit west, where the most eastern harbors of Rotterdam currently are


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## ChrisZwolle

*A4/A12 Prins Clausplein stack interchange*

The Prins Clausplein stack interchange near Den Haag, with a view on the city.









_Photo: Rijkswaterstaat archives_


----------



## Penn's Woods

I can't get over all the skyscrapers: not too long ago, most European cities didn't have that.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Nieuwegein*

The A2 at Nieuwegein (south of Utrecht) was widened to 2x4 lanes in 2011. You can still see the old 1930s road to the right.


----------



## -Pino-

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ So the are where the De Kuip sits was a collection of farms? I thought there were docks and quays there....


As per Keokiracer's post, this was not the main port area. But on the river side, you had forms of industrial activity. If I recall correctly, it was shipyard type of business (Wilton Feyenoord?). If you look in the area, you will find some 1990s-2000s residential areas and businesses, with many of the streets bearing Feyenoord-related names. That area used to be industry back in the days. Otherwise, the area used to be farmland indeed.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Woerden*

Two nice photos of A12 at Woerden.

This first photo was taken in (probably) the 1950s, looking east-northeast. (by the way, if I didn't know better I'd swear this photo was taken somewhere in eastern Netherlands).









The second photo shows the same location today, looking west (the opposite direction).








_Photos: Rijkswaterstaat archives_


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## Suburbanist

when have they stopped putting gas station in the middle of junctions?

Looks a very dangerous placement


----------



## piotr71

ChrisZwolle said:


> The A16 motorway in (presumably) the early 1950s at Ridderkerk. *The road looks drastically different today, with a stack interchange and 18 lanes*. The photo was taken from the old Bolnes - Barendrecht road, looking north.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Photo: Rijkswaterstaat archives_


Nearby...

IMGP5110 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP5111 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP5113 by 71piotr, on Flickr


----------



## keokiracer

A nice video of the technical systems in the new Waterwolftunnel in the N201 near Schiphol Airport. The tunnel itself is practically finished, but not opened to traffic yet. That will probably happen in a few months. The video has English subtitles


----------



## Suburbanist

Will N201 be displaced to there? What will be done of current alignment of N201 - downgraded to 30km/h?


----------



## keokiracer

Suburbanist said:


> Will N201 be displaced to there?


 Yep!


Suburbanist said:


> What will be done of current alignment of N201 - downgraded to 30km/h?


It'll probably be downgraded. But 30 km/h seems a bit too much downgrading, even for The Netherlands.


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ Isn't this now a zone 30kmh?


----------



## keokiracer

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ Isn't this now a zone 30kmh?


Yes it is. There still is a difference though. Near Ommen was 1x2 lanes. Near Aalsmeer it's even 2x2 lanes. Also with a lot more lanes at intersections. I think it'll be downgraded to 1x2 with a speed limit of 50 km/h. They'll think 70 is too much (that's what it is now), but I think they'll say that 30 is too low since it will still be an important route for local traffic from Aalsmeer and Uithoorn. Outside of both cities I guess it'll become 60 km/h opposed to the current 80 km/h. Also with a 1x2 configuration.

Not sure about any of this though. I haven't seen anything of what they will do to the old road. No maps, not even texts.


----------



## -Pino-

Suburbanist said:


> when have they stopped putting gas station in the middle of junctions? Looks a very dangerous placement


The first Dutch motorway gas stations all sat in the middle of junctions. It made for efficient use of space; no need to acquire additional land as would have been the case for a full rest area. But the stations in junctions did not offer the comfort of a modern era service and rest area, so thankfully we moved on. I am not sure whether there has been any date on which they stopped constructing gas stations in junctions. It has probably been much more gradual. In some later-day reconstructions, they even maintained the in-junction gas station. But those exits were reconstructed to eliminate the danger of the extremely short (or rather, complete absence of an) on-ramp from the gas station to the on-ramp of the exit.

I think that those ramps were the main danger of the original configuration. You wouldn't want any of them on a modern-era motorway. But back in the days, with traffic intensity of exits (and motorways generally) much lower, actual danger was probably very much limited. In fact, it is not really surprising that a road like the A44 still has an exit-with-station in the old style without decent ramps. Probably there are others too, on other old exits with low usage. In that context, the structure still has a safety within tolerable margins.


----------



## EPA001

-Pino- said:


> As per Keokiracer's post, this was not the main port area. But on the river side, you had forms of industrial activity. If I recall correctly, it was shipyard type of business *(Wilton Feyenoord?)*. If you look in the area, you will find some 1990s-2000s residential areas and businesses, with many of the streets bearing Feyenoord-related names. That area used to be industry back in the days. Otherwise, the area used to be farmland indeed.


The shipyard was called Piet Smit. It was a subsidiary of Wilton Feijenoord though.


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> The A16 motorway in (presumably) the early 1950s at Ridderkerk. The road looks drastically different today, with a stack interchange and 18 lanes. The photo was taken from the old Bolnes - Barendrecht road, looking north.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Photo: Rijkswaterstaat archives_





piotr71 said:


> Nearby...
> 
> IMGP5110 by 71piotr, on Flickr


Now the old picture makes sense. I always thought it should have been that place since the A16 only there shows this remarkable curve. The direction in which the old picture is taken is looking south instead of North. That threw me in the wrong direction. The farmland on the left is where now the municipal district Rotterdam-Beverwaard is and on the right where now the municipal district Rotterdam-IJsselmonde is. 

And the shadows in the old picture indicate the picture was taken in the summer somewhere in the late afternoon or early evening. It also means that the picture can not have been taken from the old viaduct between Ridderkerk-Bolnes and Rotterdam-IJsselmonde since the A16 never had a curve on that spot as shown in the picture. The curve lead in the 1950's to the Rotterdam-South area since the large 6-lane Van Brienenoordbrug in the A16 was opened in 1965 and was later doubled (in 1990) to become a 12-lane bridge. Before the Van Brienenoordburg was completed the old Willembrug and the Maastunnel in the center of Rotterdam handled all of the North-South traffic.


----------



## Suburbanist

How bad was congestion on a16 before they made the bridge 12-lane across ?


----------



## EPA001

^^ It was very bad. Daily back-ups which formed around 6 am till 9:30 am and from 3 pm till almost 7 pm. Traffic jams have now moved up a couple of km to the North since the Tebregseplein junction forced traffic to go left or right. The way straight ahead (the new connection A13-A16) is now being planned, but should have been build in the late 1960 or early 1970. So it will be build about 50-60 years later then it planned.

With the equally long delay on the A4-MD connection which is going to be finished in Q4 of 2015 (it is a missing link in the A4 of about 6.5 km which also took 55 years of debating before they finally started building) Rotterdam has been hit much harder then other large Dutch cities when it comes to bad politics in deciding on the necessary highways to build.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

EPA001 said:


> Rotterdam has been hit much harder then other large Dutch cities when it comes to bad politics in deciding on the necessary highways to build.


The major difference with Amsterdam is that the Rotterdam ring road was completed 15 years earlier than the Amsterdam ring road  A large part of A10 did not open until 1990.


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> The major difference with Amsterdam is that the Rotterdam ring road was completed 15 years earlier than the Amsterdam ring road  A large part of A10 did not open until 1990.


Meanwhile Apeldoorn doens't have a decent 2+2 urban ring road  :bash:


----------



## HAWC1506

I remember seeing this picture posted a while back by Timon91.










What is the purpose of having both lane signal signs and traffic signals on the gantry?

If the tunnel is closed, wouldn't red Xs be displayed on all lane signal signs? If the traffic signals display a red indication, doesn't that mean the same thing (do not proceed)?

Seems redundant, but there must be a reason! Thanks


----------



## Batavier

HAWC1506 said:


> I remember seeing this picture posted a while back by Timon91.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the purpose of having both lane signal signs and traffic signals on the gantry?
> 
> If the tunnel is closed, wouldn't red Xs be displayed on all lane signal signs? If the traffic signals display a red indication, doesn't that mean the same thing (do not proceed)?
> 
> Seems redundant, but there must be a reason! Thanks


It looks a bit strange indeed, but I think it has a simple explanation. When there is a red X on the sign, it is not allowed to drive on that lane. When regulating traffic, the red X is always used for keeping that lane clear. For instance with an accident or for road maintenance. A red traffic light just means you need to stop, you don't have to clear the lane you are on. 

If all lanes would show a red X Dutch drivers would be very confused as it means its not allowed to drive on that road.


----------



## crimio

Are there any plans to continue the A35 from Almelo to Zwolle and another small part from Enschede to German border?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are no plans to extend A35. However, there are plans to upgrade Zwolle - Wierden to a 4-lane 100 km/h expressway. However, it is likely to be postponed due to the latest multi-billion robbery from the infrastructure fund.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A16 Van Brienenoord Bridge, Rotterdam*

Today it's exactly 48 years ago the first Van Brienenoord Bridge opened to traffic in Rotterdam. It was the first part of the Rotterdam Ring Road and the first new motorway alignment in the Netherlands that was built with 2x3 lanes, although it was not the first 2x3 motorway in the Netherlands, because A13 Rotterdam - Delft was widened from 4 to 6 lanes 5 years earlier (in 1960). The Van Brienenoord Bridge opened to traffic on February 1, 1965. It was twinned to a 12-lane bridge in 1990.

The Van Brienenoord Bridge shortly after opening in 1965.








_Photo: Rijkswaterstaat archives_


----------



## aswnl

HAWC1506 said:


> I remember seeing this picture posted a while back by Timon91.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the purpose of having both lane signal signs and traffic signals on the gantry?
> 
> If the tunnel is closed, wouldn't red Xs be displayed on all lane signal signs? If the traffic signals display a red indication, doesn't that mean the same thing (do not proceed)?
> 
> Seems redundant, but there must be a reason! Thanks


It's very simple. A red X isn't a stop-sign. When an X is being shown above all lanes, you may proceed by lack of any alternative. Apart from a police-stop, there's only one ligitimate way to make traffic stop: traffic lights. When the traffic lights are working, the signalling on the same gantry will be out of service.


----------



## crimio

ChrisZwolle said:


> There are no plans to extend A35. However, there are plans to upgrade Zwolle - Wierden to a 4-lane 100 km/h expressway. However, it is likely to be postponed due to the latest multi-billion robbery from the infrastructure fund.


Thanks Chris!


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Van Brienenoord Bridge shortly after opening in 1965.


Great picture! kay:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Leiden*

The widening of A4 in Leiden is in full progress. They are currently building a second aquaduct with 3 lanes (space for 5 lanes).

Notice the green screens, they are reducing distraction from drivers in the existing aquaduct (opened nearly a year ago).








_Photo: Joop van Houdt._


----------



## HAWC1506

aswnl said:


> It's very simple. A red X isn't a stop-sign. When an X is being shown above all lanes, you may proceed by lack of any alternative. Apart from a police-stop, there's only one ligitimate way to make traffic stop: traffic lights. When the traffic lights are working, the signalling on the same gantry will be out of service.


Thanks for the response.

So in the even that there is a major accident blocking the entire carriageway, if there are no signals on a gantry, would red Xs be displayed across the entire carriageway?


----------



## Koesj

^^ If the whole roadway were to be blocked you'd have an instant traffic jam so red Xs wouldn't exactly be needed to 'stop' traffic. Again, they're indicatory you having to move to another lane or keeping away from a closed one one (like shoulder running or a second merging taper). In your example, I'd expect to see the overhead Xs appearing as soon as a lane has been cleared since they handle cross-lane movement.


----------



## aswnl

HAWC1506 said:


> So in the even that there is a major accident blocking the entire carriageway, if there are no signals on a gantry, would red Xs be displayed across the entire carriageway?


Yes, they can be displayed. But they have to be enforced by other means...

http://www.autosnelwegen.nl/asw/pics/publ/RK1.jpg


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Moerdijk Bridges*

This is the Hollands Diep (Hollands Deep), the widest river in the Netherlands. There are three bridges at this point, from front to back (west to east), the 2x3 A16 motorway bridge, the 2-track high-speed rail bridge and the 2-track conventional rail bridge, the latter being the oldest.


----------



## Slagathor

I always felt like creating those little piers of land at either end is cheating. You could have built a much more impressive bridge if you'd just bothered to span the entire width with steel instead of earth.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There were actually plans made in the early 1970s to replace the 1936 bridge with a giant cable-stayed bridge with a main span of 400 meters (which would make it the largest cable-stayed bridge in the world at that time). However it was found impractical and horizon pollution. They instead widened the existing bridge from 4 to 6 lanes by 1978.


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> horizon pollution.


:bash:

A nice bridge is horizon pollution but the industry from Moerdijk isn't ( not that I don't like that, I like industry from a distance, but to just make a point) :










Author: RobMarquenie on Panoramio


The boring flat Dutch landscape would be so much better with more tall structures like high bridges everywhere! Also windmills are not a problem apparently ?


----------



## Road_UK

snowdog said:


> :bash:
> 
> A nice bridge is horizon pollution but the industry from Moerdijk isn't ( not that I don't like that, I like industry from a distance, but to just make a point) :
> 
> Author: RobMarquenie on Panoramio
> 
> The boring flat Dutch landscape would be so much better with more tall structures like high bridges everywhere! Also windmills are not a problem apparently ?


You prefer a lot of men made landscapes?


----------



## Suburbanist

Road_UK said:


> You prefer a lot of men made landscapes?


Yes, the Westchedlt barrier, the Maasvlakte and A15 through the Port of Rotterdam, the Afluitdijk, all kept on pristine conditions (no trash or decaying structures shown), are among the most amazing landscapes in Europe.


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## ChrisZwolle

Virtually all of the Netherlands is man-made. Nature that hasn't been touched since before 1900 does not exist. All other natural areas are intensively managed. That does not mean the Netherlands does not have any natural value, the Oostvaardersplassen between Almere and Lelystad (once intended as a large industrial area) are among the most interesting areas in the Netherlands, it almost looks like some kind of savanna from the lookout point south of Lelystad.


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## Suburbanist

What is the tallest (from median water level) pylon in Dutch road bridges?


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## ChrisZwolle

Probably the Erasmus Bridge in Rotterdam, it's 139 meters tall.


----------



## Road_UK

Suburbanist said:


> Yes, the Westchedlt barrier, the Maasvlakte and A15 through the Port of Rotterdam, the Afluitdijk, all kept on pristine conditions (no trash or decaying structures shown), are among the most amazing landscapes in Europe.


You are joking! That puts the Grand Canyon pretty much in a black spot... And even the Zillertaler Naturpark here in the Mayrhofen area is way more spectacular than a motorway through a lake and a few dams to stop the flatscapes from flooding. 

Friesland has always had a special place in my heart though...


----------



## keokiracer

Road_UK said:


> And even the Zillertaler Naturpark here in the Mayrhofen area is way more spectacular than a motorway through a lake and a few dams to stop the flatscapes from flooding.


Geez, might it be possible for people to have different opinions on things?

Personally I like the Maasvlakte, A15 through the Port of Rotterdam, The Enclosure Dam and the Westerscheldt barrier a lot. But that doesn't immediately mean that I think that the Grand Canyon sucks.


----------



## snowdog

Road_UK said:


> You prefer a lot of men made landscapes?


Not necessarily, I love mountainous or hilly areas, I just don't like boring Dutch flatland/grassland.

In that view, I prefer refineries and industry over some polder!

Friesland, ugh . Infra wise it's nice to blast through though, nice low traffic and population density!


----------



## Road_UK

snowdog said:


> Not necessarily, I love mountainous or hilly areas, I just don't like boring Dutch flatland/grassland.
> 
> In that view, I prefer refineries and industry over some polder!


Give and take, I suppose. I love my Alps, I love tropical jungles, I love the spectacular views on the Grand Canyon or Niagara Falls, but I have always got a special warm place for the green fields of Friesland. The Veluwe forest I find really nice, but the rest of the Netherlands? Thank you but I'll pass. I hate men made industrial landscapes.


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## Suburbanist

The Alps are also very nice, I've driven through plenty of Alpine passes, including some of the highest ones.

But I consider mountains/cliffs/ocean a different kind of beauty. 

My whole point is: the Dutch built-up environment looks extremely nice compared to the built environment of any other country I've visited extensively in Europe. Almost no decay to be seen, neat industrial parks, no junk thrown around factories etc.

Just something very different of what I'd see across the border in Germany, let alone back in Italy.

=============

Anyway, what is the lowest altitude on the (auto)snelweg network, excluding tunnels/underpasses? Somewhere near Lelystad? A16 in Dordrecht?


----------



## keokiracer

Suburbanist said:


> Anyway, what is the lowest altitude on the (auto)snelweg network, excluding tunnels/underpasses? Somewhere near Lelystad? A16 in Dordrecht?


I'd say the A20 somewhere around here. This is very close to the lowest point of The Netherlands. (in the _Prins Alexander_ polder)
(off topic: will they rename that to King Alexander polder? )


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> Anyway, what is the lowest altitude on the (auto)snelweg network, excluding tunnels/underpasses? Somewhere near Lelystad? A16 in Dordrecht?


I suppose that would be A20 just east of Rotterdam at about -6, -7 m. (Zuidplaspolder). 

Otherwise it's the N62 Westerschelde Tunnel at -60 m.


----------



## Coccodrillo

Suburbanist said:


> Anyway, what is the lowest altitude on the (auto)snelweg network, excluding tunnels/underpasses? Somewhere near Lelystad? A16 in Dordrecht?


And the highest?


----------



## Pannyers

By the way, "westerschelde barrier" doesn't exist, it's the "oosterschelde barrier". The westerschelde is an open way to the Nordsea.


----------



## -Pino-

keokiracer said:


> (off topic: will they rename that to King Alexander polder? )


Polder was named after a different guy; the Prince Alexander that died in 1884.

As to the highest point in the Dutch motorway network, it is the A76 near Heerlen, which reaches some 180 meters there. That is below the lowest point of quite a few landlocked countries ...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I wonder what the bridge with the highest clearance is in the Netherlands. Most bridges across the large rivers have a relatively low clearance of just over 9 meters (the so-called _Rijnvaarthoogte_, or Rhine shipping clearance) above peak water level. 

I think the Van Brienenoord Bridge in Rotterdam is the winner with a 24 - 25 meter clearance. The Eiland Bridge at Kampen may come in second at 16.5 meters. Most other large fixed bridges (like Stichtse Brug, Waal Bridge Nijmegen, etc.) have a clearance of generally 12 - 15 meters.

There are additionally some "talbrückes" or valley viaducts in southern Limburg, like this one, but I doubt if it exceeds 10 - 15 meters.


----------



## Slagathor

-Pino- said:


> As to the highest point in the Dutch motorway network, it is the A76 near Heerlen, which reaches some 180 meters there.


I've heard of this mystical place. I was told you need oxygen bottles when you drive there.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N201 Schiphol Airport Bypass*

The N201 is currently under construction from A4 at Hoofddorp to west of Mijdrecht. It is one of the largest provincial road projects in the Netherlands this decade. 

It has a rather inconsistent layout of 2x2 lanes, traffic lights, tunnels and interchanges, but it will be a major improvement.

A notorious land developer near Schiphol-Rijk (Chipshol) has been acquiring land in the area since the 1980s to develop high-tech office parks around the airport. However he doesn't want to sell a right-of-way for the N201 bypass. I don't understand why this is taking so long (eminent domain is usually no major problem in the Netherlands). This issue halts the construction of this 330 meter viaduct:








Photo by _the runner_.


----------



## Suburbanist

Coccodrillo said:


> And the highest?


I think it must be A2 near Meersen.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N33 Assen - Zuidbroek duplication*

The official start of the N33 duplication was today. Officials drove a provincial road authority truck through a sign as a symbolic start. A 37 kilometer stretch of N33 will be widened to 2x2 lanes. The status of an expressway will be retained, which means the speed limit will remain 100 km/h. The project will be completed in late 2014, so it's a rather quick project (under 2 years).


----------



## Slagathor

This is to cover the huge flows of traffic to that go from Assen to... Germany?


----------



## mappero

^^ Not at all. The quite big traffic in between Emshaven and south part of Groningen, Drenthe province. BTW, this is good idea - traffic congestion in Groningen on Julianaplein will be reduced


----------



## Slagathor

Eemshaven! Completely forgot about that.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The road is heavily used by truck traffic, so the speed limit of 100 km/h is usually not attainable for long distances. Besides that, the widening is chiefly a traffic safety issue, N33 is one of the least safe two-lane N-roads in the Netherlands. The northern part between Veendam and A7 is actually the busiest, with 20 000 vehicles per day.


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> The road is heavily used by truck traffic, so the speed limit of 100 km/h is usually not attainable for long distances. Besides that, the widening is chiefly a traffic safety issue, N33 is one of the least safe two-lane N-roads in the Netherlands.* The northern part between Veendam and A7 is actually the busiest, with 20 000 vehicles per day*.


Busier than N206 in KAtwijk?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The busiest part of the N33 to be upgraded of course


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Maastricht Tunnel*

The first segment of double-deck tunnel in Maastricht has been built.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Details are sketchy at this moment, but media reports € 500 million will be added to the road budget of 2013-2014 to battle the recession and create jobs in the construction sector, which is among the hardest-hit sectors in the past 5 years of the triple recession cycle. 

This news comes just a few weeks after the budget cuts for road projects where announced, so it is unclear what the effect will be. Because it is short-term money, I think most of the money ends up in maintenance and maybe the acceleration of postponed projects (I think A12 Ede - Grijsoord interchange has a good chance since this project can begin immediately).


----------



## Suburbanist

A positive thing of Dutch road construction planning is that, apparently, they only begin projects they can afford to finish, e.g., no "let's kickstart it and see how we finance the rest 3 years from now"


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> A positive thing of Dutch road construction planning is that, apparently, they only begin projects they can afford to finish, e.g., no "let's kickstart it and see how we finance the rest 3 years from now"


True. Projects get underway as soon as they are fully funded. Funding is regulated through a solid planning process of financial resources, called the MIRT. Once projects are funded, they are executed as fast as possible.

There are a few differences with Germany. Most German projects are not fully funded at once, but by pieces every year, which means they can only build as far as funding allows each year. Sometimes they begin projects while not all funding or environmental clearance has been secured. 

In addition, many projects are cut up in little pieces and tendered separately. Even various aspects of road projects in Germany are frequently tendered separately (paving, bridgework, guardrails, etc) while in the Netherlands the whole deal is tendered to one major contractor, increasingly common as a DBFM contract, where they are also responsible for 20 years of maintenance. 

PPP projects with shadow tolls have turned out very unfavorable for the Dutch government. The A9 Wijker Tunnel was constructed for € 280 million, but the entire 30-year concession has cost the government about € 1 billion. There haven't been any new such concessions in the Netherlands for 20 years for that reason.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*2013-2014 investment package*

The € 500 million road construction investment has been unveiled today.

The economic recovery package includes the following projects;

* A12 Ede - Grijsoord interchange widening to 2x3.
* N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen, 2x2 expressway
* construction of 700 truck parking lots along A1 and A67
* accelerated renovation of A22 Velser Tunnel 
* A27 ? (no idea what this is, may be an error)
* widening A6 Almere - Lelystad after 2018 (this is the first time I've heard of this)
* A2 Deil interchange - 's-Hertogenbosch (unspecified project)
* A1 Muiderberg interchange - Eemnes interchange (unspecified project)
* Northern Belt Amsterdam (unspecified project, possibly A8 extension)
* Brainport<1> Eindhoven (unspecified project, apparently road-related)

<1> Major economic areas in the Netherlands have fancy names like Brainport or Food Valley, etc.


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## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> * A27 ? (no idea what this is, may be an error)


I think it's also a renovation, besides the Velsertunnel. I think they joined those together because they're both maintenance and forgot the possible confusion between A22, Velsertunnel and A27.
Maybe a renovation of the Merwedebrug @ Gorinchem?


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## ChrisZwolle

*A50 Ewijk Waal River Bridge*

Some photos of the new Ewijk Waal River Bridge, taken today.


DSC_0028 by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0032 by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0054 by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0058 by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr


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## EPA001

I just passed this bridge this morning at 06:00 hours. The gap looked closed to me and your pictures confirm this. It will be quite a big challenge to lift the old bridge to the level of the new bridge to make for an easier passage of the bridge for ships with higher loads. I wonder how long the old bridge will be closed for lifting and renovations. My guess is it could easily be 6 to 12 months.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*

Some major constructive problems occurred at the A4 Delft - Schiedam motorway construction. 

They found vertical drainage pipes in the central section which go down deeper than thought and are also much more extensive than thought. These pipes were built in 1974-1975. The existence of them was already acknowledged last year, but the extent of them became clear just now. There are some doubts whether the planned half-depressed motorway is still feasible.


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## Slagathor

Good, just build it on ground level already. Stupid idiots.


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## snowdog

Slagathor said:


> Good, just build it on ground level already. Stupid idiots.


While I agree, not sure it's that easy...


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## Slagathor

It better be. Any more delays to this motorway and I'm very liable to just start pouring the concrete myself. How much does it cost to rent one of those trucks with a centrifuge on the back?


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## Des

Slagathor said:


> Good, just build it on ground level already. Stupid idiots.


+1


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## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Steenbergen*

The beams for a bicycle bridge across the A4 motorway were installed last night. They are 56 meters long and transported by truck.









photo: Joop van Houdt / Rijkswaterstaat ©


----------



## snowdog

Slagathor said:


> It better be. Any more delays to this motorway and I'm very liable to just start pouring the concrete myself. How much does it cost to rent one of those trucks with a centrifuge on the back?


While I agree, the Green nimby club will come in full force !


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## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> Some major constructive problems occurred at the A4 Delft - Schiedam motorway construction.
> 
> They found vertical drainage pipes in the central section which go down deeper than thought and are also much more extensive than thought. These pipes were built in 1974-1975. The existence of them was already acknowledged last year, but the extent of them became clear just now. There are some doubts whether the planned half-depressed motorway is still feasible.


What is the problem with these pipes. Can't they just close them or demolish them? :dunno:


----------



## Slagathor

snowdog said:


> While I agree, the Green nimby club will come in full force !


That actually gave me a fun idea for a protest. You could just go to the nearest football club and borrow one of those little carts that paint white lines on grass. Then you paint the road markings of the A4 onto the fields to make a statement: "See? It's not so hard!"


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## italystf

Is this paving technology really used? (Ignore 2nd pic)


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## ChrisZwolle

Yes it is, but not on a widespread scale nowadays, because housing construction (and streets) have stalled considerably due to the recession.










Brick streets are extremely common in Dutch residential areas because of their authentic look, traffic calming noise and ease of later underground works.


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## keokiracer

Yes, it is being used. A company in Nieuw-Buinen (location) apparently has 5 of them in use! You can find a list of projects it's been used on here including pics


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## Wilhem275

Already posted this in NL railways topic, but maybe road junkies will like some 80s roads too... 



> A clip from a 1981 movie, showing some streets and old trams in Amsterdam:
> http://youtu.be/bhD7O78XR3k?t=30m39s


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## ChrisZwolle

*A29 Haringvliet Bridge*

The toll plaza at the Haringvliet Bridge (A29 south of Rotterdam) in 1966. The toll collection was ceased in 1975 when the bridge was transferred to _Rijkswaterstaat_.


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## da_scotty

Do you have a picture of the Toll Plaza at the W-A bridge near Tiel?


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## domtoren

A2 seen from Amsterdam in the direction of Utrecht.


----------



## Daviedoff

A video in full-HD of A58/A4 from Vlissingen (Flushing) via Goes to Bergen op Zoom (Halsteren, temporary terminus of A4):


----------



## Suburbanist

Can someone identify at which approximate date his map (shown on the Kroller-Muller Museum) was originally printed?


Kroller-Muller Museum by eurograd, on Flickr


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## Stahlsturm

Suburbanist said:


> Can someone identify at which approximate date his map (shown on the Kroller-Muller Museum) was originally printed?


Judging by the style of the symbols I'd say sometime in the 1970s. I have maps from that time at home still and they look just like that.


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## keokiracer

Somewhere between 1968 and 1976. 
- opening Keizersveer bridge in A27 with 1x2 lanes in 1968 (just south of _Hank_ in your pic)
- Interchange Gorinchem is still a roundabout on your pic, it was converted to a cloverleaf in 1976.


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## ChrisZwolle

That north-south route in the _Land van Altena _ was never built. It was suppose to make a direct connection from Gorinchem to Tilburg, with an additional bridge across the Bergsche Maas River. 

Note that A59 was still a two-lane road on that map. It was later widened to 4 lanes. You can still see this wasn't originally planned as a motorway, due to the high number of (incomplete) interchanges. It's actually a rather busy motorway with many sections exceeding 60 000 - 70 000 vehicles per day.


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## EPA001

edit


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## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Utrecht*

I took some photos of A2 in Utrecht last weekend. The A2 has 10 lanes with a local-express configuration. All 10 lanes are through lanes. There are some wider segments with 14 - 16 lanes.

1. A2 just north of the Leidsche Rijn Tunnel.

A2 Utrecht-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

2. The Leidsche Rijn Tunnel, which is 1650 meters long and opened in 2012.

A2 Utrecht-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

3. Some weird screen across the southbound lanes of A2.

A2 Utrecht-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

4. Traffic along A2.

A2 Utrecht-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

5. Let's get position on a higher vantage point.

A2 Utrecht-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

6. This is one of the 14-lane segments, where a 2-lane on-ramp continues as a 2-lane off-ramp.

A2 Utrecht-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

7. Traffic was not very heavy on Easter Sunday. The AADT in this segment is circa 200 000 vehicles per day.

A2 Utrecht-7 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

8. An overview of A2.

A2 Utrecht-8 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


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## da_scotty

I believe the weird screens are there to block the sunlight enetering the tunnel, potentially blinding drivers.


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## Suburbanist

*Congestion Index by TomTom*

TomTom calculated a "congestion index" for Dutch cities










Translation of column titles:
Congestion
Morning peak
Afternoon peak
Highway
Non-highway


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## ChrisZwolle

Dutch cities are too small to make a realistic comparison between cities. Groningen has like 3 kilometers of motorway within city limits (A28), which ends at a traffic light controlled intersection, so it's not surprising their motorway congestion is the worst.


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## Slagathor

That's true but the high ranking of The Hague doesn't surprise me tbh. This is probably the most congested city out of the G3.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yep, like most coastal cities, The Hague does not have a proper ring road. Considering that most of the city was built-out before the automobile era, their road network is also not of particularly high standard. The city is very dependent on A12 and A4. 

However, some improvements will come to The Hague. It is planned to widen A4 with additional bypasses so local traffic is separated from through traffic. 

Additionally, they are planning a tunnel extension of A13 into the city, which will reduce the reliance of A12 as the single high-standard route into the city. Additionally, N221 along the southwestern side of the city will be widened and upgraded with interchanges. Grade-separation is also planned for N14 and S106, which means the amount of high-standard zubringers to the city will increase from 1 to 4.


----------



## maral

ChrisZwolle said:


> Dutch cities are too small to make a realistic comparison between cities. Groningen has like 3 kilometers of motorway within city limits (A28), which ends at a traffic light controlled intersection, so it's not surprising their motorway congestion is the worst.


Isn't all combined? Motorways, city roads etc...
Says nothing about traffic jam's btw, just that the delay is 21% bigger than on a sunday evening. Maybe you can drive through Groningen with some delay but without a jam weekdays, but on a sunday night you can drive almost as fast as you want through Groningen, very quit.  That difference is quite big, as it is in most city's i gues, but maybe even bigger in Groningen than in the city's in the 'randstad'.


----------



## Suburbanist

Groningen lacks through routes like the ones we have in Leeuwarden or, say, Lelystad.

Is lacks a ring highway as well.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

^^Groningen has a ring route. A good one too


----------



## keokiracer

KIWIKAAS said:


> A good one too


The southern part of the Ring hasn't got enough capacity and a ridiculously low speed limit, but besdes that Groningen does have a pretty good ringroad.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nearly all of the Groningen ring road will be grade-separated by 2020.


----------



## maral

keokiracer said:


> The southern part of the Ring hasn't got enough capacity and a ridiculously low speed limit, but besdes that Groningen does have a pretty good ringroad.


Wont change much on new 'Ring Zuid', from 70 km/h now, 80 in new situation in 2020


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Steenbergen*

New aerial photos of A4 around Steenbergen.

>>>*click*<<<


----------



## flierfy

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yep, like most coastal cities, The Hague does not have a proper ring road. Considering that most of the city was built-out before the automobile era, *their road network is also not of particularly high standard*. The city is very dependent on A12 and A4.


You should take off your car-centric glasses for once and realise that Dutch roads in general are of a high standard. One of the highest in world in fact. It is therefore wrong to assess the roads of den Haag as 'not of particularly high standard' just because they don't provide the capacity that motorists wished to have.


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## Suburbanist

^^ Den Haag lacks a "highway to the Ocean". A12 should joing A44 from Wassenaar (which should be fully graded separated) and then there should be a connection with Schevenigen strand.


----------



## keokiracer

flierfy said:


> You should take off your car-centric glasses for once and realise that Dutch roads in general are of a high standard. One of the highest in world in fact.


You just assume that everything is compared on a world level, but if you compare it on a national level, The Hague has roads not of particularly high standard.


flierfy said:


> It is therefore wrong to assess the roads of den Haag as 'not of particularly high standard' just because they don't provide the capacity that motorists wished to have.


Umm... Isn't that really what you're measuring, whether there's enough capacity?


----------



## snowdog

flierfy said:


> You should take off your car-centric glasses for once and realise that Dutch roads in general are of a high standard. One of the highest in world in fact. It is therefore wrong to assess the roads of den Haag as 'not of particularly high standard' just because they don't provide the capacity that motorists wished to have.


I disagree. The main roads are good yeah, anything not designated as a ''through road'' is a shameful speedbump & chicane ridden narrow nightmare.

Aside from that it just has a silly amount of traffic lights and little fly-overs... Your average speed travelling NE to SW through the city is appalling! The situation is improving though with the S200...

Also a road that is stuck with traffic a lot of the time is not of high standard, high standard is: Safety, average speed to traverse and damage to your car... Roads in the Hague and generally roads in Holland score very badly on the last 2 thanks to ''duurzaam veilig''... All this terrible ''traffic calming'' is a killer for your suspension, average speed, and also your fuel economy! The through roads are an exception, outside of peak hours they allow for relaxed quick driving from A to B.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Wildlife crossing*

Some provincial roads in Overijssel have signalized wildlife crossings. Because ecoducts are often too expensive, they resorted to a different measure, a wildlife crossing. The roadsides are fenced off, except a designated area which has lasers which detect wildlife that is going to cross the road. This in turn activates a warning system and lowers the speed limit from 80 to 50 km/h.

I drove across N346 Lochem - Goor this morning, and witnessed the system activation. I did not see any wildlife though. 


wildoversteek N346 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


wildoversteek N346-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Slagathor

No dear in his right mind is getting anywhere near that road when it's that busy.


----------



## piotr71

> Source


Amazing lane discipline.


----------



## Road_UK

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ Den Haag lacks a "highway to the Ocean". A12 should joing A44 from Wassenaar (which should be fully graded separated) and then there should be a connection with Schevenigen strand.


What good would that do?


----------



## DarkLoki

snowdog said:


> Also a road that is stuck with traffic a lot of the time is not of high standard, high standard is: Safety, average speed to traverse and damage to your car... Roads in the Hague and generally roads in Holland score very badly on the last 2 thanks to ''duurzaam veilig''... All this terrible ''traffic calming'' is a killer for your suspension, average speed, and also your fuel economy! The through roads are an exception, outside of peak hours they allow for relaxed quick driving from A to B.


Dutch roads nowadays are designed in this way in order to keep drivers like you from killing others and in general making cities unlivable.









http://www.veiligverkeernederland.nl/sterke_daling_aantal_verkeerdoden


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There was a protest today against the widening of A27 along the eastern side of Utrecht. Current plans call for a widening of the concrete cut by 15 meters on either side, which means several dozen trees will have to be cut. The attendance of the protest was reported to be between a couple of hundred and 2000 protestors, many of them school children.

It's all not really surprising given Utrecht is the epicenter of the Green Left party and the initial construction in the mid 1980s also drew demonstrators who clashed with riot police. 

It's a symbolic clash between anti-road and pro-road interests. The current plans will compensate the loss of trees threefold and additionally will also create a 2 hectare roof across the motorway which connects this forest with the city. The end result is actually much better for nature interests than a no-build alternative.


----------



## Groningen NL

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's a symbolic clash between anti-road and pro-road interests. The current plans will compensate the loss of trees threefold and additionally will also create a 2 hectare roof across the motorway which connects this forest with the city. The end result is actually much better for nature interests than a no-build alternative.


Couldn't agree more. I think this protest is their way of trying to get some attention (and thus voters), althought most of them are educated and know in the back of their head this widing project is needed and will actually be beneficial when it comes to 'nature' (It's just a small row of trees) and environment. I find it a weak and pretty disgusting attemt, and I hope with all my heart this 'greenleft' party will keep shrinking


----------



## snowdog

DarkLoki said:


> Dutch roads nowadays are designed in this way in order to keep drivers like you from killing others and in general making cities unlivable.


I do not believe that has much to do with ''duurzaam veilig'', more so with safer cars and general discipline ( respecting the correct right of way, less alcohol, etc...). Reflected by the fact that the injuries with cyclists are growing and car drivers are dropping. Finally, Duurzaam veilig was not even mentioned before 1991, therefore the drop which started way earlier cannot be in any way accounted to it! You don't see the same kind of rubbish in German villages and towns yet their casualties have been dropping too. 
Yes I know Germany as a whole has a higher casualty rate, but compare 1 German state: Nordrhein Westfalen, a region with about the same population, comparable landscape and slightly smaller but overall similar to the Netherlands, is SAFER than the NL, yet without the ''Duurzaam veilig'' bull****, some unrestricted speed limit autobahns, higher speed limits in general ( outside of cities), and a LOWER casualty rate...



And how 'livable' a town is is a personal point which is objectivied by the left wing/green parties, I believe it's less livable if I spend more time stuck in traffic ( or taking a crappy bus instead of car) than at work or at home or wherever I want to be. Subjective and no point in discussing...
We'll disagree on this so I guess there's no point in arguing about ''livability''.




> The attendance of the protest was reported to be between a couple of hundred and 2000 protestors, many of them school children.


Indoctrination of innocent school kids who do not even know how the economy works by the green&NIMBY clubs, stupid propaganda!

I wish the ~150.000 drivers using that road daily would counter-protest for once against this kind of nonsense...


> and I hope with all my heart this 'greenleft' party will keep shrinking


Me too, they have caused enough economical damage as it is!


----------



## Batavier

ChrisZwolle said:


> There was a protest today against the widening of A27 along the eastern side of Utrecht. Current plans call for a widening of the concrete cut by 15 meters on either side, which means several dozen trees will have to be cut. The attendance of the protest was reported to be between a couple of hundred and 2000 protestors, many of them school children.
> 
> It's all not really surprising given Utrecht is the epicenter of the Green Left party and the initial construction in the mid 1980s also drew demonstrators who clashed with riot police.
> 
> It's a symbolic clash between anti-road and pro-road interests. The current plans will compensate the loss of trees threefold and additionally will also create a 2 hectare roof across the motorway which connects this forest with the city. The end result is actually much better for nature interests than a no-build alternative.


Are there any renders for the new A27 (with the roof)? I consider myself to be a green person, but to me it sounds like a reasonable plan if the widened road is going to be covered. it would be fantastic if the two wood areas of amelisweerd could be connected again.


----------



## keokiracer

snowdog said:


> the ~150.000 drivers using that road daily


200.000 

I can't find a render anywhere. Sadly. Someone from the government should do that so that those 2000 people would see what actually is happening in stead of just saying. _OMG they're cutting trees _


----------



## Slagathor

Road_UK said:


> What good would that do?


Did you fail to notice who you were talking to there?


----------



## Suburbanist

Road_UK said:


> What good would that do?


Providing better connections of the coastal cities/districts to the Rotterdam and beyond.

Increasing the usefulness of A44.

Providing a relief link for A4 in case of temporary closure.

Slash travel times within Den Haag, the only metro where you can't escape city traffic by quickly driving outwards toward the nearest highway.


----------



## DarkLoki

snowdog said:


> I do not believe that has much to do with ''duurzaam veilig'', more so with safer cars and general discipline ( respecting the correct right of way, less alcohol, etc...). Reflected by the fact that the injuries with cyclists are growing and car drivers are dropping. Finally, Duurzaam veilig was not even mentioned before 1991, therefore the drop which started way earlier cannot be in any way accounted to it! You don't see the same kind of rubbish in German villages and towns yet their casualties have been dropping too.
> Yes I know Germany as a whole has a higher casualty rate, but compare 1 German state: Nordrhein Westfalen, a region with about the same population, comparable landscape and slightly smaller but overall similar to the Netherlands, is SAFER than the NL, yet without the ''Duurzaam veilig'' bull****, some unrestricted speed limit autobahns, higher speed limits in general ( outside of cities), and a LOWER casualty rate...


In my eyes 'duurzaam veilig' is just a continuation of what we have been doing for many decades, taking away responsibility away from drivers and reducing conflict. I understand where you are coming from, who does not want to get a move on it when he's in a car but it has been proven countless times that people cannot be trusted to act responsible. Why do you that is is preferred for new autowegen to seperate the lanes? Because stupid drivers continue to kill others by overtaking where it is obviously not possible. Speedbumps are installed because people can not be trusted to slow down for intersections and use there eyes before they cross.

In a perfect world duurzaam veilig would not be necessary but people suck and you have to design the world around that fact.

I do not have time to look up data on Germany but I can imagine it very hard to compare them if you look at the completely different traffic landscapes there.



> And how 'livable' a town is is a personal point which is objectivied by the left wing/green parties, I believe it's less livable if I spend more time stuck in traffic ( or taking a crappy bus instead of car) than at work or at home or wherever I want to be. Subjective and no point in discussing...
> We'll disagree on this so I guess there's no point in arguing about ''livability''.


I value livability, but i'm no green lefty. I will not try to convince you but a lot of people (or planners) would consider livability a very (if not the most) important argument.


----------



## snowdog

DarkLoki said:


> In my eyes 'duurzaam veilig' is just a continuation of what we have been doing for many decades, taking away responsibility away from drivers and reducing conflict. I understand where you are coming from, who does not want to get a move on it when he's in a car but it has been proven countless times that people cannot be trusted to act responsible. Why do you that is is preferred for new autowegen to seperate the lanes? Because stupid drivers continue to kill others by overtaking where it is obviously not possible. Speedbumps are installed because people can not be trusted to slow down for intersections and use there eyes before they cross.
> 
> In a perfect world duurzaam veilig would not be necessary but people suck and you have to design the world around that fact.
> 
> I do not have time to look up data on Germany but I can imagine it very hard to compare them if you look at the completely different traffic landscapes there.


I disagree, you do not need downgrading roads or speedbumps to make roads safer!

I'm all for reducing conflict but the opposite seems to happen with downgraded roads!



> I value livability, but i'm no green lefty. I will not try to convince you but a lot of people (or planners) would consider livability a very (if not the most) important argument.


What I meant is livability is subjective, I don't think my neighborhood became any more ''livable'' since it became a 30 km/h zone even when I was a kid. Livability has nothing to do with speedbumps for me, more with the available space, safety (against robbery, thieves, etc...) and freedom to do whatever you want! The factors for ''livability'' differ per person, unlike some people try to suggest!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Batavier said:


> Are there any renders for the new A27 (with the roof)? I consider myself to be a green person, but to me it sounds like a reasonable plan if the widened road is going to be covered. it would be fantastic if the two wood areas of amelisweerd could be connected again.


There are no renders yet because the project is still in design phase, which draws more public attention than the average road project. I agree it would be better if there were some good renders. Luckily the Dutch media picked up the fact that loss of trees will be compensated threefold and a roof will be build across the motorway, two aspects completely ignored by the usual anti-widening rhetoric. 

A roof across the motorway is not possible on the existing structure, because it was never built to support such a roof.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Diffractor: the answer to noise barriers?*

A new innovation by the University of Twente is the _diffractor_, a concrete strip with hollow tubes along the roadside that reflects roadway noise in a different direction. They claim it can reduce noise by as much as 3 or 4 dB. It appears to be a very simple and cost-effective solution. They state that it is chiefly effective with tire noise, which eliminates their use in urban areas, where traffic speeds are low and engine noise is dominant. But it can be a good solution along non-urban roads and motorways. 

A pilot project will begin this year at the N314 bypass at Hummelo, Gelderland province.


----------



## PLH

Sounds interesting but I'm not sure it will work that good.


----------



## Groningen NL

The diffractor sounds very interesting indeed  I hope we can get rid of the noise barriers as they disturb the scenary in most cases.

I hope I'm not the only one who noticed the numberplate (69 xxx) :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice photo of A2 and the new Zuid-Willemsvaart canal bypass at 's-Hertogenbosch.









_more at De Fotograaf_

The new canal bypass also includes several new and widened bridges in the area. For example they will build a 4-lane bridge for N279 and a new grade-separated interchange, in anticipation of the general N279 widening to 2x2 lanes.


----------



## Slagathor

I always felt that Californian highway was a bit much for little 's-Hertogenbosch. How did that happen? Is it a major intersection?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There was a hype in the mid-2000s amongst politicians to build local-express systems around every larger city. Distribution of traffic around 's-Hertogenbosch is uneven, the local lanes are overcrowded while the express lanes have a lot of spare capacity. 

Local-express systems can make sense, but often it results in higher construction cost, a larger right-of-way and uneven distribution of traffic. It's also a problem with operations, especially roadworks.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Galecopper Bridge, Utrecht*

The € 80 million renovation of the Galecopper Bridge in Utrecht has been tendered to KWS Infra. The multi-year project consists of various phases. Most works in 2013 will be below the bridge deck. The bridge will also be jacked up by 70 centimeters to allow shipping with additional clearance. The bridge deck will be renovated in 2014-2015. The renovated bridge should be able to handle traffic up until at least 2045.

The Galecopper Bridge was built between 1971 and 1976 and replaced an earlier arch bridge from the 1930s. It carries 12 lanes of the A12 motorway. It is the second-busiest bridge in the Netherlands with 220 000 vehicles per day.


----------



## snowdog

Nice, I hope they find a way to minimize chaos though, I can already imagine what chaos will happen if all the traffic is sent to the local lanes, the A12 express lanes there are busy as they are!


----------



## mappero

ChrisZwolle said:


> These photos were taken on the first stretch of A10 (Amsterdam Ring Road) that opened in 1966.


:nuts: Now I know why in Belgium they still use E-... numbering for motorways. The same about more then one blue round sign with => on the middle islands/dividers.


----------



## da_scotty

I believe this was before roadnumbering was started to be signed.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*New Waal River Bridge, Nijmegen*

The 285 meter span of the new Waal River Bridge at Nijmegen will be shipped into position tomorrow. This is one of the largest bridge spans in the Netherlands, and the first of this size that is being shipped into position, rather than constructed on-site. Water levels and wind forecasts are favorable for the operation.

This bridge is not to be confused with the nearby A50 Waal River Bridge that is being constructed a couple of kilometers downstream.


DSC_0034 by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr


----------



## jdb.2

mappero said:


> The same about more then one blue round sign with => on the middle islands/dividers.


Do you mean like this?
That's a typical NL thing i think. I have never seen that in Belgium or anywhere else.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*New Waal River Bridge, Nijmegen*


Nijmegen, invaren stadsbrug 'De Oversteek' by Stewie1980, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The 4 bridges of Nijmegen. 

From bottom to top;

* 1936 Waal Bridge (road, 1x4)
* 1879 Waal Railway bridge (bicycle bridge attached to it in 2004)
* 2013 New Waal Bridge (2x2)
* 1976/2013 A50 Waal Bridge (2x4)


----------



## snowdog

The new bridge is of couse positive, but what on earth have they done to the road on the center-right in your picture, why the sudden sharp corner in it (where the Mauritsingel joins alongside the railway)?

Also destroying the exit near the bottom bridge :s ?


----------



## keokiracer

That's where the acces road to the new bridge will connect with the N325. it will be a junction regulated with traffic lights.

Ground photo:

DSC_0058 by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr


----------



## snowdog

keokiracer said:


> That's where the acces road to the new bridge will connect with the N325. it will be a junction regulated with *traffic lights*.
> 
> Ground photo:
> http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8382/8644357809_0ac2f7b3e8.jpg[img][/url]
> [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8644357809/]DSC_0058[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/]jeroenvanlieshout[/url], on Flickr[/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Great :(.
> 
> I assume it's at the railway station ? I'm sure there could have been a better solution for the same costs ?
> 
> Will at least the traffic going north be unhampered by the traffic lights once it's done ( the one with still the smooth curve)? Can easily be done by letting traffic simply merge from the lights...
> 
> They have also seemed to destoyed some nice standalone houses for ugly row housing :(.
> 
> Hope the new bridge will relief some of the traffic though!


----------



## diablo234

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nijmegen, invaren stadsbrug 'De Oversteek' by Stewie1980, on Flickr


Pretty cool looking bridge.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N50 Zwolle - Emmeloord*

I accumulated over 1100 photos of the N50 widening and bridge construction over the past 3 years. Here's a little collage I made for a video I will publish later.


N50 collage resized by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## JB1981

snowdog said:


> Also destroying the exit near the bottom bridge :s ?


That exit and the surrounding buildings are (being) demolished to make more room for the river Waal.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N201 Aalsmeer Bypass*

The Waterwolf Tunnel will open to traffic tomorrow. It's a 2x2 tunnel that carries the new N201 provincial road around Aalsmeer. It's part of one of the largest provincial road projects in Dutch history, including flyovers, viaducts, new interchanges with A4 and another tunnel at Amstelhoek.


----------



## Suburbanist

JB1981 said:


> That exit and the surrounding buildings are (being) demolished to make more room for the river Waal.


What do you mean? Are they widening the river channel? Or building some new retention pond?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They are digging a secondary canal to improve water flow at extreme discharges. Nijmegen otherwise becomes a bottleneck, the quays flood frequently.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N201 Aalsmeer Bypass*

The new N201 Aalsmeer bypass opened today. The whole project is not finished yet, so I expect traffic counts will be low until the project is finished.






The flyover at the beginning connects the Aalsmeer flower auction with the main road network. This flower auction is the world's largest indoor trading area at 860 000 m² (almost 50% larger than The Pentagon).


----------



## temlin

ChrisZwolle said:


> They are digging a secondary canal to improve water flow at extreme discharges. Nijmegen otherwise becomes a bottleneck, the quays flood frequently.


----------



## jdb.2

It seems things are really moving in NL, they are taking a more technocratic approach towards infrastructure projects. Too bad we in Belgium are still in the phase of lot of talking but no action hno:. We should take an example to the neighbors.


----------



## Wilhem275

A quick look under the widened A10 and the new A5 in Amsterdam, seen from a train reaching Sloterdijk:
http://youtu.be/4ohi1POMsf4?t=4m46s


----------



## kosimodo

Whats happeinng in NL?

TomTom says: 592 incidents in this area. 966 km total. 

Is it snowing again?


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> The new bridge is almost ready for its temporary 6-0 system (the bridge is built for 4 lanes + shoulder).
> 
> 
> DSC_0060 by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr


It will open soon and then the works on the renovation and the lifting of the old brigde can be started.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Today it is 25 years ago that the speed limit in the Netherlands was raised from 100 to 120 km/h. 

The Netherlands did not have speed limits on motorways prior to 1974. Already in 1960 a 120 km/h speed limit was recommended by a traffic safety board and a trial with speed limits was started in 1966. However the 1973 oil crisis was the major factor in introducing a speed limit.

The speed limit of 100 km/h was introduced on 4 February 1974. Days after its implementation, a raise to 120 km/h was already discussed in parliament because it was thought that very few people obeyed the speed limit of 100 km/h which resulted in negligible fuel savings. 

Later in 1974, then-transportation minister Westerterp vetoed a European treaty which had a goal of harmonized speed limits of 120 or 130 km/h. A study in 1984 found that 75% of all motorists exceeded the speed limit of 100 km/h. The police strongly urges to raise the limit to 120 km/h. This finally happens on 1 May 1988.

The speed limit was raised again on 1 September 2012. 130 km/h is currently the maximum speed limit on Dutch motorways.


----------



## Slagathor

"Later in 1974, then-transportation minister Westerterp vetoed a European treaty which had a goal of harmonized speed limits of 120 or 130 km/h."

Well, that was a stupid thing to do.


----------



## snowdog

Slagathor said:


> "Later in 1974, then-transportation minister Westerterp vetoed a European treaty which had a goal of harmonized speed limits of 120 or 130 km/h."
> 
> Well, that was a stupid thing to do.


It should be simple: 

100km/h near big cities or near dangerous points ( the busier parts of ring roads spring to mind ), the collector lanes.
130 everywhere else, ( Places like the A4 near Leidschendam, The whole A13, the A15/A16 bit near Ridderkerk, the A2 between A'dam and Utrecht spring to mind with completely retarded limits), express lanes on ring roads too.
130km/h or faster at night everywhere.


I could live with those speeds like that, but in the current form, especially around the big 4 cities, the speed limits are a complete joke...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Spatial development of the Rotterdam-Den Haag metroplex in the past 60 years.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A5 & A10 Amsterdam*

It has not been officially reported by Rijkswaterstaat, but it appears that the second Coen Tunnel and the A5 Basisweg Viaduct will open to traffic on Monday 13 May 2013. The opening requires a long weekend closure (Wednesday evening to early Monday morning) of the A10.

When the second Coen Tunnel opens, all traffic will shift to the new tunnel, and the old tunnel will undergo a year-long renovation. Full capacity will be available in 2014. 

Capacity will be more than doubled in 2014 compared to today. The new tunnel has a reversible lane, which means the number of inbound lanes will be increased from 2 today to 5 in the morning in 2014, and outbound in the afternoon.


----------



## Vliegtuigbouwert

That reminds me of the reversible lane in the Benelux Tunnel. Will they ever put that one into service?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It was built as a reversible tube, but never put into service. It's used for maintenance access. The reason given is that the adjoining segments do not have sufficient capacity thus the reversible lane has no advantages for traffic.


----------



## aswnl

When the A15-MaVa and A4-Delft-Schiedam projects are finished, the tidal flow will be necessary.


----------



## keokiracer

Even with the new Blankenburgtunnel?


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> It was built as a reversible tube, but never put into service. It's used for maintenance access. The reason given is that the adjoining segments do not have sufficient capacity thus the reversible lane has no advantages for traffic.


It should allow one-lane traffic if one of the tubes is closed for whatever reason.


----------



## Palance

It is sometimes used to carry bikes through the tunnel in a little van in case there is a problem with the neighbouring tunnel for cyclists.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A 1931 rendering of an elevated "fast road" in the Netherlands. It comes from a book about an envisioned high-speed road network by engineer Anton Mussert, who founded the pro-nazi NSB and was executed for high treason in 1946. He was chief engineer of the provincial water/roadworks authority of Utrecht province in the 1920s.


----------



## Surel

^^

The cows under the bridge are funny.


----------



## Wilhem275

Crops growing under a bridge, yeah :|


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ The odd part for me is the oxcart going under the bridge.

By the way, did many people ride bikes at that time?


----------



## keber

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ The odd part for me is the oxcart going under the bridge.


Why odd? Netherlands at that time was as developed as many todays countries with both motorways and oxcarts.


----------



## da_scotty

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ The odd part for me is the oxcart going under the bridge.
> 
> By the way, did many people ride bikes at that time?


Biking culture started in the interbellum years I believe!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A5 & A10 Amsterdam*

It's now been confirmed, the new A10 Coen Tunnel and A5 elevated motorway will open to traffic next Monday, May 13, 2013 at 05:00 hrs. 

The end result in 2014:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The A10 will be closed in both directions at the Coen Tunnel during the upcoming long weekend, from Wednesday evening to Monday early morning.

Some statistics about this weekend closure:

* non-stop work for 100 hours (4 days and 5 nights)
* 1.200 workers
* 10 construction sites
* 20.000 tonnes of milled asphalt
* 12.000 m³ sand
* 10.000 tonnes of foundation
* 23.500 tonnes asphalt (1500 - 2000 truck loads)
* 26 kilometers of road markings
* 6 kilometers of guardrails
* removing 3 gantries, installing 1 new 
* remove 30 lampposts
* install 250 pavement induction loops
* modify 51 sub stations of MTM
* 12 new sets of vehicle height detection
* remove 6 gates, install 7 new ones (for closing the tunnel)

Statistics provided by aswnl.


----------



## keokiracer

*A4 Halsteren - Dinteloord picture-update*

People are working everywhere on the 13 km stretch now!

For all pics (197 photos!) you can click here (there's some Dutch text under some pics, I don't know if it's translated into English very welll and the pics are *NOT in chronological order!*)

A 'short' summary. I've added location in the form of Google Maps links, this should make it more clear 

Cycling bridge at Klutsdorp seen from exit Tholen









The trucks with sand for the slope of the cycling bridge were coming at a high pace. 2 trucks were waiting









Start of the parallel road that, in the future, will go all the way to the Drielindekensweg









Temporary cyclepath near Klutsdorp (which cuts through the construction site). Looking towards Bergen op Zoom with the cycling bridge nicely visible:









A look in the other direction (towards Rotterdam)









Near the junctionZoekweg/Stierenweg. Looking towards Bergen op Zoom:









And towards Rotterdam









Westlandse Langeweg. Looking towards Rotterdam (stupid sand everywhere! :bash: )









Looking towards BoZ









The future bridge in the Westlandse Langeweg over the A4 will be very narrow! 









Alongside the Drielindekensweg. Construction has finally commenced here (this was the section they started working last).









Drielindekensdijk: looking towards BoZ









And now towards Rotterdam with the future exit Steenbergen in the background









Future exit Steenbergen, N257: The road is being moved a bit south to create space for the exit (This pic lacks focus icard









Looking in the direction of Noord-Brabant's first aqueduct:









Pillars have been placed where the N257 will go over the A4:









Zoom.









Aqueduct Steenbergen. North side: Pics taken from the freely accessible viewpoint (which looks and feels quite unstable btw)









South side:









N259 just north of Steenbergen where the N259 will go over the A4. Asphalt! (Looking towards Rotterdam)









And towards Bergen op Zoom









Bridge over the _Steenbergsche Vliet_ (as seen from the east)









Small tunnel in the Zuidzeedijk (also see video at bottom of this post). Looking from the west:









Just north of the Zuidzeedijk (looking towards BoZ)









From exit Dinteloord a lot of zoom in southern direction (towards Bergen op Zoom):









Viaduct over the A4 (currently numbered as A29) near Dinteloord:









To the northwest of the exit:









The picture above shows the exit coming from Rotterdam, as does the one below









The highway needs to be widened a bit here to make room for an exiting lane towards Dinteloord









Looking south from the viaduct _Blauwe Hoef_ near Dinteloord









Video of the new tunnel at the Zuidzeedijk. (I recommend turning down the volume!)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*MTM - Motorway Traffic Management*

Motorway Traffic Management or MTM was introduced in the Netherlands in the 1970s to improve traffic safety. Gantries are placed across the roadway to signal information to motorists. The system mostly consists of speed limit reductions and lane closure indications. VMS's provide additional information. 

The system works with AID or Automatic Incident Detection. Recently hailed in Texas as a new "high tech solution", it's been common along Dutch roadways for the last 40 years. The entire system is autonomous and computer controlled, requiring no human intervention. Of course traffic operators can intervene, for example to close lanes. But traffic jam and incident detection is entirely automatic. 


A28 Soesterberg-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

Some statistics:

* 16830 induction loops
* 243 radar detectors
* 14196 matrix signs
* 2618 kilometer roadway equipped with MTM (over half the network)
* 6 traffic operation centers
* 347 kilometers of shoulder running


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A13 Kleinpolderplein interchange, Rotterdam*

A car crashed off the highest flyover of the Kleinpolderplein motorway interchange. The driver was killed. According to local media, the speedometer was stuck at 170 km/h. The actual speed limit is 80 km/h. The barrier in question is a mix of a concrete jersey and a railing on top of it.


----------



## Slagathor

170 on that flyover is plain suicidal. Makes you wonder if the throttle was jammed...


----------



## Groningen NL

My guess would be drinking and driving, since it happened early in the morning. And yeah, those Mini Coopers (it is one right?) are actually pretty fast.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The crashed car appears to be a high-end Mercedes. It looks like he did a Peter Pan off the ramp in Dukes of Hazzard-style.


----------



## Suburbanist

Is this "throttle jamming" thing for real? You can brake a car even if it the throttle is pressed. The mechanical power of the brakes to at least seriously reduce its speed is much more than the ability of the axis to overcome the braking discs.


----------



## keokiracer

Suburbanist said:


> Is this "throttle jamming" thing for real?


That was just a theory.


----------



## Surel

^^
Suicide?


----------



## keber

Why not reckless driving?


----------



## snowdog

Some more pics of it, quite bizarre:










































Vid:






I wonder what caused him to launch above the concrete barrier.
The speedo could have gone to 170 due to the impact, however, to fly that far he'd definitely need a speed of 150ish km/h.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

^^
Having driven this flyover 100s of times, at 170kph I think it would have been a wonder if her hadn't gone over the top

I wouldn't rule out suicide


----------



## snowdog

KIWIKAAS said:


> ^^
> Having driven this flyover 100s of times, at 170kph I think it would have been a wonder if her hadn't gone over the top
> 
> I wouldn't rule out suicide


Same, but that corner is doable at 110-115 km/h while staying in lane, faster if there's no traffic and you use all available space ( outside>inside>outside), the barrier should have glided him along the edge unless he was doing well over 170 and toppled him over due to the impact...

Either that or he steered deliberately into the barrier. I believe that at 170 km/h, if he was steering in the correct direction, the barrier would not have send him flying over it...


----------



## Slagathor

It's not just the speed, it's also the angle of impact with the barrier. That's impossible to determine from these photos. Are there any CCTV cameras on that location?


----------



## KIWIKAAS

snowdog said:


> Same, but that corner is doable at 110-115 km/h while staying in lane, faster if there's no traffic and you use all available space ( outside>inside>outside), the barrier should have glided him along the edge unless he was doing well over 170 and toppled him over due to the impact...
> 
> Either that or he steered deliberately into the barrier. I believe that at 170 km/h, if he was steering in the correct direction, the barrier would not have send him flying over it...


In an average car, at 110-115 you'd be really pushing to stay in your lane. At 120 you'd almost certainly hit the wall unless you use the entire road space including the shoulder.
At 170 I reckon the impact with the wall would have been nearly instantaneous upon entering the curve.


----------



## keokiracer

KIWIKAAS said:


> In an average car,


The car that crashed was a high class Mercedes


----------



## snowdog

KIWIKAAS said:


> In an average car, at 110-115 you'd be really pushing to stay in your lane. At 120 you'd almost certainly hit the wall unless you use the entire road space including the shoulder.


I did it in a lowered car with soft tyres ( fwd tho)... I reckon the average rwd car (like the crashed Mercedes) can easily go faster too...


----------



## KIWIKAAS

keokiracer said:


> The car that crashed was a high class Mercedes


Doing 170 into a 80km curve is going to cause you grief what ever you're driving


----------



## KIWIKAAS

snowdog said:


> I did it in a lowered car with soft tyres ( fwd tho)... I reckon the average rwd car (like the crashed Mercedes) can easily go faster too...


Not 170 in that bend


----------



## snowdog

KIWIKAAS said:


> Not 170 in that bend


That I agree, but at 170 I still think it shouldn't have launched him over the barrier but steered the car alongside it... Just a guess though of course .


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Hoofddorp*

A new bicycle bridge opened yesterday across A4 at Hoofddorp (near Schiphol Airport, outside Amsterdam).

Some photos.

This new bicycle bridge will span 16 lanes of traffic.

A4 Geniedijk-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

Expansion of A4 from 10 to 14 lanes.

A4 Geniedijk-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A4 Geniedijk-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A4 Geniedijk-9 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A4 Geniedijk-10 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A4 Geniedijk-12 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A4 Geniedijk-17 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## piotr71

I've never seen (or do not remember) London as a destination in the Netherlands until now.


----------



## keokiracer

It is the only sign in The Netherlands that mentions London (and Paris). There used to be one on the A2 as well, I think. But they removed it when they widened it.


----------



## Road_UK

All motorways out of Amsterdam used to display these eurosigns. A1 for Berlin and Kopenhagen, A2 for Luxembourg and A4 for Paris, London and Brussels. Although most people would still use A2 for Paris, Brussels and London via Calais. I do anyway.


----------



## piotr71

@*keokiracer*

On A2? Which part? Only on short stretch, common with A67, it would make sense.


----------



## Road_UK

piotr71 said:


> On A2? Which part? Only on short stretch, common with A67, it would make sense.


See above. There never was a London sign on A2.


----------



## keokiracer

I'm pretty sure there used to be a sign on the A2 near Amsterdam with also 'Luxembourg' on it.


----------



## piotr71

*@ Road_UK*

Ok.

-------------

By the way, I checked map after your posts and see it does make sense to follow A2 and A27 in case of travelling to Calais. And even it looks slightly shorter than A4.


----------



## keokiracer

I think it might have to do with traffic coming from Schiphol Airport (see the planes)


----------



## keokiracer

There definitely used to be a sign with Luxemburg on the A2 near exit Abcoude. However, the pics that used to be in the thread are all dead links now...


I did find an old sign on the A1 motorway eastbound though. no idea where exactly, I'm guessing just east of Amsterdam near Muiden or so.


----------



## Road_UK

piotr71 said:


> @ Road_UK
> 
> Ok.
> 
> -------------
> 
> By the way, I checked map after your posts and see it does make sense to follow A2 and A27 in case of travelling to Calais. And even it looks slightly shorter than A4.


Exactly. But these signs are based on E-routes. E19 uses A4, A16 to Antwerp and Brussels, even though it's quicker and shorter to use A2 and A27.


----------



## aswnl

Some 5 years ago a new system of roadsigns has been introduced on motorways in the Netherlands. Differences with old-school are:
- arrows on gantrysigns heading upwards instead of downwards
- introducing service-signs for local objects
- introducing a new system of network focal points instead of end-destination of a numbered road
- introducing the symbols for junctions and interchanges

I have made a site with pictures of these new roadsigns. Pictures have been contributed by Dutch road enthusiast of the Wegenforum, and have been gathered in other ways. Anyway, the site is now for 99% complete. It is available in Dutch, but it isn't that difficult to navigate: just choose the right motorway-number and direction.

You can visist it here:
http://bewegwijzering.autosnelwegen.nl


The site is Joomla-based, and pictures are automatically resized when being shown on a smartphone.
Colors of the signs have been optimized for smartphone and tablet use. I hope to make an Android-app in the near future to make navigation from a smartphone easier.

_NB: You don't need to login or create an account._


















Bonus-question: what's wrong with the last sign above ?


----------



## Pannyers

Nice website!


----------



## Road_UK

aswnl said:


> Some 5 years ago a new system of roadsigns has been introduced on motorways in the Netherlands. Differences with old-school are:
> - arrows on gantrysigns heading upwards instead of downwards
> - introducing service-signs for local objects
> - introducing a new system of network focal points instead of end-destination of a numbered road
> - introducing the symbols for junctions and interchanges
> 
> I have made a site with pictures of these new roadsigns. Pictures have been contributed by Dutch road enthusiast of the Wegenforum, and have been gathered in other ways. Anyway, the site is now for 99% complete. It is available in Dutch, but it isn't that difficult to navigate: just choose the right motorway-number and direction.
> 
> You can visist it here:
> http://bewegwijzering.autosnelwegen.nl
> 
> The site is Joomla-based, and pictures are automatically resized when being shown on a smartphone.
> Colors of the signs have been optimized for smartphone and tablet use. I hope to make an Android-app in the near future to make navigation from a smartphone easier.
> 
> NB: You don't need to login or create an account.
> 
> Bonus-question: what's wrong with the last sign above ?


Ooh ooh ooh *pointing finger in air impatiently*

E22 runs into Germany on A7, not A1.


----------



## MichiH

Road_UK said:


> E22 runs into Germany on A7, not A1.


So E22 is wrong. E30 is correct.


----------



## Road_UK

Yep


----------



## CNGL

aswnl said:


> Bonus-question: what's wrong with the last sign above ?


I bet that Dutch A1/German A30/E22 sign is actually on E30 .


----------



## Suburbanist

That is a neat website.


----------



## mappero

keokiracer said:


> There definitely used to be a sign with Luxemburg on the A2 near exit Abcoude. However, the pics that used to be in the thread are all dead links now...
> 
> 
> I did find an old sign on the A1 motorway eastbound though. no idea where exactly, I'm guessing just east of Amsterdam near Muiden or so.


With my gps brain  I record almost everything when driving. I remember this sign was here: http://goo.gl/maps/9ik8c

And I found it !!  street view


----------



## Slagathor

That's a cool trick, you could probably work at a circus.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A79 Maastricht - Heerlen*

I recorded the A79 motorway between Maastricht and Heerlen in southern Netherlands this weekend:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Rotterdamsebaan Tunnel, The Hague*

The municipality of Den Haag (The Hague) published the design-zoning plan for the construction of the _Rotterdamsebaan_, a 2x2 urban arterial which runs mostly underground in an 1860 meter long bored tunnel. It is one of the largest municipal road projects ever undertaken in the Netherlands. The tunnel will run to -28 meters at the lowest point.

The project cost is € 565 million excluding VAT, of which the national government pays € 295 million, including VAT. Construction is planned for 2016-2019.


----------



## Wilhem275

Just of out curiosity: based on Dutch modern tunneling experiences, what's the minimum depth at which you can bore a tunnel under a builinding's foundations, without endangering it?

Of course, that depends on the type of terrain you find.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

According to the zoning plan, 16 meters below ground level offers enough support for a bored tunnel without having subsidences or ground water pushing the tunnel upwards. All soil types are feasible to bore through, though they prefer to bore through just one type of soil because of how the earth is transported out of the tunnel boring machine. They will use the slurry shield process due to the soft soil and ground water.

Vertical profile of the tunnel:


----------



## snowdog

EPA001 said:


> Yes, but the A16-A13 bypass will offer even much more relief. With those two new connections in place (2015 and 2020?), which will be realised only 60 years later then planned, the A20 and A13 from the Airport to the Kleinpolderplein, will have sufficient capacity to cope with the traffic.


In theory, yeah.
1: I'll believe it when I see the road being built. The current government is not making itself popular, I suspect a different government next elections, who might cancel out any infrastructure plans. 
2: If the road was free, yes, but I don't think many people will, for the sake of €1,50, use the new link instead of the free old road...
I think 40.000 cars per day would even be an achievement



Road_UK said:


> What if there's a breakdown?


Are you deliberately trolling now ?

The exact same as anywhere else with shoulder running or no shoulders. We are talking about less than 1 km that causes a huge problem...
The A13 nearby also doesn't have shoulders for 1.1km.


----------



## Des

postHUMANproject said:


> If you're willing to skip Crooswijk westbound, there would be enough space to make spitsstroken up to centrum exit.
> 
> 
> 
> The new A4 will offer some relief at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> Shoulders are a quite rare and dangerous event already at this small stretch. A wider Rozenlaanpassage would improve the situation dramatically (no wb entrance even more).


How about removing all exits between Kleinpolderplein and Terbregseplein and vice-versa? This would surely improve traffic flow significantly and also most traffic from A13 with destination Rotterdam would not go on the A20 at all, reducing the congestion further. 

If you then try to add rush hour lanes where possible I think the current A20 could do without upgrades.


----------



## Slagathor

Why don't we just remove all the exits between my house and my office. That would surely improve _my_ traffic flow. I mean _the_ traffic flow.


----------



## postHUMANproject

^^

The art of exaggeration in full effect hno:

I did some proposals to upgrade this difficult and very congested part of our highwaysystem, without costly intervetions. The A13-A16 connection awaits in the fridge, and there is little hope we can drive here within 10 yrs. The Crooswijk entrance has little use, since there is an entrance half a kilometer away. I live right in between those two, and am a heavy user of both. I care little when peepz from The Hague or Amsterdam start to whine about an entrance in Crooswijk, lol.


----------



## Slagathor

postHUMANproject said:


> ^^
> 
> The art of exaggeration a joke in full effect


Fixed.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

postHUMANproject said:


> The A13-A16 connection awaits in the fridge, and there is little hope we can drive here within 10 yrs.


It's not "in the fridge", but is actively planned. They are currently making the design EIS, to be published in early 2014.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N281 Heerlen*

A drive across the N281 urban expressway in the city of Heerlen. This road used to have motorway status and used to be numbered A281.


----------



## snowdog

postHUMANproject said:


> ^^
> 
> The art of exaggeration in full effect hno:
> 
> I did some proposals to upgrade this difficult and very congested part of our highwaysystem, without costly intervetions. The A13-A16 connection awaits in the fridge, and there is little hope we can drive here within 10 yrs. The Crooswijk entrance has little use, since there is an entrance half a kilometer away. I live right in between those two, and am a heavy user of both. I care little when peepz from The Hague or Amsterdam start to whine about an entrance in Crooswijk, lol.


I'm not sure, there are quite a lot of cars joining ( causing a minor slowdown to 50km/h westbound at Crooswijk during a couple of hours a day), it's also contributing towards the (very limited) accessibility of Hillegersberg/Schiebroek.

Can exit Centrum handle the Crooswijk exit traffic ? It's quite full there as it is sometimes, besides, westbound traffic would become a bit of a chaos, due to the weaving after Centrum, you have to go 2 lanes left through heavy traffic ( going to the A13) if you need to go in the Vlaardingen/Hoogvliet direction. I barely ever use Crooswijk because I come from the Alexander area, but I can totally see it's use. Afrit centrum is not exactly the best capacity wise, and Hillegersberg is quite poor to reach.

I think, at least eastbound, there should be shoulder running or the exits connected for that 1 km.
Westbound I'm not exactly sure, since the problem is the area between Centrum and Kleinpolderplein, it might make create a worse bottleneck.

Ignoring Terbregge of course with 5 lanes ( or 6 if you count the trucks) of traffic merging into three.

I'm hoping with the A15 widening and A4 extention, that some through traffic will use that link instead of clogging up the A20, but the A16-A13 link is the only real solution to the area, preferably toll free.



> How about removing all exits between Kleinpolderplein and Terbregseplein and vice-versa?


This would effectively cut off Schiebroek/Hillegersberg from the motorway, clog up all local roads ( which are already congested in the Kralingen-Crooswijk area), and of course a good link to the center.
There are significant flows of traffic east>center, atm you have three choices of roads with a bit of capacity, use the Hoofdweg&Bosdreef local road, use the A20 exit centrum, or use the A16 and Maasboulevard. All three routes are very busy as they are. Public transport is not really a good option as the P+R parking near Kralingse zoom is always full and the new parking garage is still under construction for a bit. 

There are a good 200.000+ people living in eastern Rotterdam and Suburbs like Capelle, Zuidplas, Krimpen, etc... ( outside the ring), and currently 3 possible car routes with 2x2 or better roads, a metro and a train going into the city center for east>center commuters, during rush hours there isn't ANY capacity left, on road or rail, trains and metro's are full to the brim and the roads are clogged. I travel this route daily to uni and to work daily by any means depending on my mood, and the only real stable quick transport is a moped. Cycling takes 30-40 mins easily, as does public transport and car too during busy hours, which is a bit silly for 12 ish kilometers.

During calm hours ( 10am-4pm) there are no major problems, but 7-10am and 4-7pm I can best describe as transport chaos. Remember there are 1.2 million people in the Rotterdam area in total with no significant road projects for the past 20 years ( correct me if I'm wrong) while the population is slightly growing.

Compare that to the A'dam area with 1.4mil inhabitants, which has a double ring road for half around the city, and significant widenings in the past couple of years.


----------



## Alqaszar

@ChrisZwolle: For the A 79 and N 281 vids you should have put on the Nitzs with "In the Dutch mountains" as background music.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Beware if you drive in the Netherlands, there is a huge traffic fine hype going on at the moment. The ministry of justice expects a record-breaking € 1.1 billion in traffic fines for 2013. This means the average car owner in the Netherlands has to pay € 100 in fines this year. 

The amount of traffic fines is critized by motorist associations and police alike. The police feel they have become a "traffic fine factory", "clearly to fill the government budget" and not traffic safety. Especially section controls generate a lot of money.

Some of the fines have become ridiculously expensive. For example, ignoring a passing ban will cost you € 220, while at the same time they implemented continuous passing bans on virtually al two-lane roads. Just yesterday I had to drive 20 kilometers behind some idiot driving 60 where the limit was 80. 

Passing on the right has a fine of € 220. While passing on the right could be slightly dangerous, it is caused chiefly by drivers not respecting the lane discipline, for whom the fine is even lower (€ 130). 

Not stopping entirely at a STOP sign also has a fine of € 220. Many STOP signs in the Netherlands are unnecessary, often you can proceed at low speed without the need to come to a full stop. I know plenty of STOP signs where a general "give way" sign would suffice.


----------



## Suburbanist

I agree that some of the fines are ridiculous, but the passing ban fines make perfect sense. Apart from running red lights and gross overspeeding, it is one of the most dangerous moving violations.


----------



## Godius

del


----------



## Red85

ChrisZwolle said:


> Today it's 10 years to the day that one of the most significant changes in Dutch road policy became in force. On 2 June 2003, the _spoedwet wegverbreding_ or Urgent Law Road Widening came into effect.
> 
> Troubles with air quality delayed most projects however, only a few projects were done in 2003-2007 due to these issues. Since air quality is no longer an issue in the Netherlands, many widenings took off from 2007. Congestion has decreased significantly for the first time ever. More than half of all congestion disappeared by 2012, while traffic volumes remained stable.
> 
> Below is a map of roads that have seen expanded capacity between 2003 and 2013. I want to stress that these are not all physical widenings, but also shoulder running, sometimes only in one direction.
> 
> Motorways widened 2003-2013:


Then you forget atleast one. The A7 between Zaandam and Purmerend, one way shoulder is added during rushhour. 

Should be done to at least 2x3 20 years ago. Direction of Zaandam is every morning the first jam you hear on the radio. 5.30 sometimes!


----------



## Slagathor

Stuck in a traffic jam at 5.30 in the morning every day... I would rather get a divorce and move, to be honest.


----------



## Wilhem275

Saw these pictures on FB, 27/05/2013.




























I guess this is the spot, right?


There are more:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...03483489.33449.100003588323242&type=1&theater


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, that is the widening of A15 to 10 lanes. This particular cross-section will get 12 lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, they will construct a cloverleaf with one turbine connector. It's part of the N33 duplication project. The new interchange will be constructed between early 2013 and late 2014.


----------



## cougar1989

I will show you some pictures from my Roadtrip trough the EU+EFTA from 15/07/13 until 19/07/13. A1 - A28 - A27 - A58 - A16


----------



## javimix19

Hi, I read in Wikipedia since since 1991, only 100 kilometers of motorway have been constructed in the entire country, of which only 26 km lie within the Randstad metropolitan area. The population has grown by 1.5 million since, creating significant pressure on the motorway network.

Is that matter true? If is, why? Is the network of Holland completed?


----------



## Groningen NL

A lot of motorways have been widened to increase the capacity. The network is pretty good, although there are some missing links wich should have been constructed, but at the end it's a matter of politics (a.k.a left/green parties opposing plans, nimbys etc)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

271 kilometers of new motorways have opened to traffic in 1991-2013. 80 kilometers opened in 2007-2013. 

Most of the network is complete, there are a few persisting missing links, some of which are under construction. There are no plans to construct entirely new motorways. Widening the network has a much higher priority, much has been done in 2008-2012, but there is still a lot of work to do, especially on the hinterland routes (A1, A15, A27, A58, A67) where six-laning is necessary for hundreds of kilometers. Another point of concern is the capacity of some motorway-to-motorway interchanges. We need more stacks.


----------



## keokiracer

javimix19 said:


> Hi, I read in Wikipedia since since 1991, only 100 kilometers of motorway have been constructed in the entire country


Not true, about 250 kms since 1991. The network now has 2516 kms of highways. In 1991 that was around 2250 kms.



javimix19 said:


> , of which only 26 km lie within the Randstad metropolitan area.


I have no idea whether this is true, but it wouldn't surprise me... Quickly thinking, the only highways that come to mind are the A5 and the A9 near the Wijkertunnel. So 26 km might acually be correct. But it also depends on how you define the Randstad. There are multiple ways to describe the Randstad area, so it's kinda a vague area.



javimix19 said:


> Is that matter true? If is, why? Is the network of Holland completed?


The network is fairly completed. Most missing links are under constuction now (like the famous A4 delft-Schiedam which will be opened in 2015 after almost 70 years(!!!) of debate). Not every single one of them is under construction though (for example the A8-A9 connection).
Why? Well there are multiple factor. Politics shifted the focus on infrastructure from highways to public transport, long procedures before a highway can be built. Before 1007 there was an average of about 11 years of procedures. Due to new laws that has been brought down to ~ 4 years. And let's not forget the NIMBY's (Not In My BackYard)...


----------



## javimix19

Ok, sorry for say that Holland network only growth 100 km since 1991, Wikipedia lies I think :lol:. Thank you for your answers guys. Very grateful.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Wikipedia is often outdated. The Dutch Wikipedia is one of the worst of all Wikipedias, it's very large but its depth is extremely shallow. They obviously wanted to create as many articles as possible without caring about its content. A lot of stuff on Wikipedia about roads has not been updated for years. An encyclopedia is not just about creating articles, but also maintaining them in the longer term.


----------



## Road_UK

Probably goes to show that there's a lack of interest on certain items, as anyone can update information on Wikipedia. When a Hollywood star dies, information gets updated instantly.


----------



## Road_UK

When exactly will all the falling arrow signs be replaced by the Germany style ones?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They are replaced when needed. The budget for replacing signs is shrinking, most new signs are a result of road projects where signage renewal was needed or when a sign was damaged in an accident. I think it could be years before everything is replaced.


----------



## Surel

Surel said:


> ^^
> Again thanks for this great info. Just few more questions. :happy:
> 
> So who checks the Rijskwaterstraat? Just the Court of Audit?
> I thought that the EU directives on the public procurement require quite high openess. But I would have to read more on this.
> 
> I see, tracébesluit, but in this case the tracébesluit is just available after the contract is awarderd and design finalized. Thus there still can come an appeal that would object against something that was added to the tracébesluit by the contracting firm in the tender. Thus there is inherent legal risk in such type of tendering. It would be interesting to know, how is this legal risk mittigated or who bears it.
> 
> Ok, so basically you say, once one has tracébesluit, the building permit is a formality. Nice! Is there though a theoretical chance to appeal it (the building permit)? And it's just that there is very little chance of such appeal suceeding, that no one actually does that? Is it because that the courts would consider irrevocable tracébesluit as bulletproof, or because tracébesluits actually are so well prepared and there never emerges a fail in them?
> 
> Last one. The EIA and EIS. The EU require an EIA by each project. Is EIA part of the wider defined Dutch procedure EIS? E.g. part of the desing EIS?


I am looking into public procurement in the Netherlands. It is interesting the EU commission had a dispute with the Netherlands about public procurement in two cases of the public works and NL agreed to keep to EU principles: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-11-600_en.htm

Most probably this induced a change in the public procurement law in the Netherlands and on April 1, 2013 a new law came into force. http://uk.practicallaw.com/3-522-7902?q=*&qp=&qo=&qe=#a392169

A general overview over the public procurement in Netherlands: http://uk.practicallaw.com/3-522-7902?q=*&qp=&qo=&qe=#a405737



> 12. What systems are in place in relation to the publication of details/copies of completed tender and contract documentation, which include pricing and other potentially sensitive information?
> 
> The contracting authority must inform bidders and motivate its decision to award or deny the public contract. As a general rule, the contracting authority must provide sufficient information on the selection of individual bids to enable bidders to assess properly the potential success of the available legal remedies. *Accordingly, the contracting authority must inform bidders about the final scorings of the different bids and the characteristics and advantages of the winning tender. This would in principle include the disclosure of general pricing information. However, no information about individual bids is made public when this would jeopardise any legitimate commercial interests of tenderers or the fair competition between undertakings.*
> 
> _my comment: It would be interesting to challenge Rijkswaterstaat on this. How do they reason little disclosure, with jeopardizing the commercial interests? Seems that Rijkswaterstaat is too friendly with the commercial sector here._
> 
> The obligation to motivate the tender decision is intended to enable candidates to understand the ranking of their bid. Dutch case law recognises that the contracting authority is not generally required to provide commercially sensitive information about detailed pricing arrangements. In addition, contracting authorities may also deny the disclosure of information for reasons of public interest. This exception may for example be relevant in relation to public contracts for the protection of government buildings or the Dutch royal family.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Rotterdam*

Fresh aerial photos of A4. :cheers:



















More here:
http://defotograaf.eu/blog/a4-midden-delfland-2/


----------



## Jeroen669

A short movie I made a few days ago on the A77 and A73 towards Venlo:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A6/A7 Joure Interchange*

The construction of the Joure interchange has been delayed. The original plan was to construct a new interchange between 2013-2015 but is now pushed back to 2015-2017. The reason was the uncertainty whether an aquaduct could be constructed for the Scharsterrijn canal, which sees heavy recreational shipping. It is now clear that an aquaduct is not funded until after 2020, so the interchange will remain a stand-alone project as originally planned.

An EIA will be published in late 2013 and the project will be tendered in 2014. Construction should be done between 2015 and 2017.

current "interchange".









future interchange:


----------



## Road_UK

It means it will take two years to get rid of a roundabout and replace it by a proper interchange junction? Why would it take them so long? On the A1 between Doncaster and Peterborough it only took them a few months to replace 6 or 7 roundabouts with proper interchange junctions .


----------



## Koesj

If you look at the second pic, or in maps for that matter, you'll see that this is a _very_ wet area; canals, ditches and a couple of lakes dot the area. The earthworks for the new interchange will need considerable time to set before they can be used for further construction.


----------



## lafreak84

ChrisZwolle said:


> ...


What about the McD exit?


----------



## keokiracer

lafreak84 said:


> What about the McD exit?


If you're referring to the exit towards Joure: there will be a seperate exit for Joure. The interchange will be located a bit to the southwest of this location, creating space for the exit.


----------



## Agnette

Jakub Warszauer said:


> It's really not photo shop?


http://goo.gl/maps/lP76w


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A73 Roermond - Venlo*

The southern half of A73 on video. This is one of the last long new motorways in the Netherlands. Most of A73 in this video opened in 2007-2008. Only the segment in Venlo is older (1996). There are two tunnels, the longest is 2.5 km.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*truck traffic in the Netherlands*

Truck traffic volumes, per direction, in 2011. As you can see a large share of the motorway network carries over 10 000 trucks per day. The highest amount of trucks is at Rotterdam, where there are road segments with up to 30 000 trucks per day.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Steenbergen*

Some new aerial photos of A4 around Steenbergen.

1. Dinteloord terminus since 1971.









2. Tholen interchange, opened in 2007, extended a few hundred meters in 2012.









3. Klutsdorp temporary access point.









4. A4 north, passing west of Steenbergen.









5. A4 west of Steenbergen. Some of the embankments still need to settle properly, to avoid subsidence in the future.









6. The new Steenbergen interchange.









7. Steenbergen aqueduct.









8. Steenbergsche Vliet bridge.


----------



## Suburbanist

Has there ever been a case of a newly constructed highway that suffered significant subsidence on its first years and required extensive reconstruction or closure for repairs?


----------



## Wilhem275

The new stretch of A4 around Venice had to go through serious works because it was... a fountain, and not a highway. Since 2008, and we're not even completely done...

EDIT: sorry, maybe you were just asking about NL.


----------



## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Some new aerial photos of A4 around Steenbergen.


FRom what date are those? My pics are from July 23rd and they show the parallel road opened. These pics show the parallel road closed (pic 4 top of screen).


----------



## Suburbanist

Wilhem275 said:


> The new stretch of A4 around Venice had to go through serious works because it was... a fountain, and not a highway. Since 2008, and we're not even completely done...
> 
> EDIT: sorry, maybe you were just asking about NL.


Oh, I was asking about Netherlands only, sorry didn't make it clear.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> Has there ever been a case of a newly constructed highway that suffered significant subsidence on its first years and required extensive reconstruction or closure for repairs?


Not that I am aware of. However, some roads developed some severe subsidence after a few decades, particularly in Zuid-Holland province. Examples are N3, A4, N11 & A20. Although they are not bumpy, the ride like a roller coaster, going up and down all the time.


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## Wilhem275

Suburbanist said:


> Oh, I was asking about Netherlands only, sorry didn't make it clear.


My bad! I believed we were in the general topic...


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## Road_UK

Wilhem275 said:


> My bad! I believed we were in the general topic...


That's ok. The Netherlands is a small country...


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## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> Truck traffic volumes, per direction, in 2011. As you can see a large share of the motorway network carries over 10 000 trucks per day. The highest amount of trucks is at Rotterdam, where there are road segments with up to 30 000 trucks per day.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/XIi3T6P.png[IMG][/QUOTE]
> 
> Which is why I hate driving on the A15 eastwards of Rotterdam, the right lane is filled with trains of trucks @88km/h.
> The left lane is filled with ''zondagsrijders'' or old people driving at 105-110km/h...
> 
> Can't get anywhere at a decent speed, the A12 ( because of 2x4 lanes instead of 2x2) and A59 ( much less trucks) are far better to traverse.


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## ChrisZwolle

*traffic congestion*

Traffic congestion was at an historic low in the month of July. Not ever has there been so little congestion on Dutch motorways since reliable record keeping began in 2005. The amount of congestion was 70% lower than the July average during the past 7 years.


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## snowdog

Combination of widenings and the holidays where a lot of people buggered off abroad .

Much better, even the local roads are great to travel these days!


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## Suburbanist

A2 Maastricht project










Source: RWS


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## ChrisZwolle

*A2 's-Hertogenbosch - Eindhoven*

I took some photos this morning of the A2 widening project in Best. Construction works seem dormant right now, I think it requires no more than a weekend closure to pave the final layer. 

1. Ter hoogte van de aansluiting Best-West, kijkend richting zuiden.

A2 Best-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

2. De verharding is hier zo goed als gereed, maar wellicht wordt er met een weekendafsluiting nog een toplaag gedraaid.

A2 Best-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

3. De aansluiting Best.

A2 Best-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

4. De verdiepte ligging langs Best.

A2 Best-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

5. Zelfde locatie, kijkend richting noorden.

A2 Best-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

6. 3 rijstroken vanaf Best-West richting noorden.

A2 Best-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

7. Iets zuidelijker in Best zelf.

A2 Best-7 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

8. Aansluiting Best.

A2 Best-8 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

9. 

A2 Best-9 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

10. De aansluiting Best-West.

A2 Best-10 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*N329, Oss*

The N329 provincial road in the city of Oss was recently widened to 2x2 lanes. They also built an interchange and a railway underpass. N329 used to be one of the busiest two-lane roads in the Netherlands with 30 000 vehicles per day. It is a major access road to Oss, even though N329 dead-ends at a ferry crossing, nearly all industry is located along this road.

The lack of integration of the N329 within the Paalgraven motorway interchange (A50/A59) has been critized.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A50 Ewijk Waal River Bridge*

The bridge deck of the new A50 bridge across the Waal River at Ewijk has seen some significant deformation. The amplitude is more than 20 centimeters while only a few centimeters were anticipated. It's quite visible from the car, although you don't really feel you're going up and down forcibly, when driving across it. 

It has been called a construction error, but the implications are not clear yet. Other cable-stayed bridges in the Netherlands do not have such deformation, but some 1970s concrete cantilever bridges did have significant deformation as well, though different from this case. 

The national media or politicians have not picked this up yet, we'll see what happens after the summer recess is over. 

The bridge carries over 110 000 vehicles per day.


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## ChrisZwolle

*road design*

The Foundation for Scientific Road Safety Research (SWOV) published a report about the design standards of roads in the Netherlands.

This was widely picked up in the media, because the report found the Dutch lanes for non-urban, non-motorway major roads are the narrowest in the world. The standard lane width is only 2.75 meters. The standard road width is 7.50 meters, while 8.50 - 9.50 meters is internationally the norm. 

In addition to the narrow lanes, the report also found out the overall road design was very poor compared to international roads, especially the width of shoulders (which are non-existent in the Netherlands) and the obstacle free or clear zone is narrower than most other countries. Additionally Dutch roads are continuously designed with the minimum design standards, instead of the preferred design standards, and frequently even below minimum standards.

The report cited a significant reduction in traffic fatalities on wider roads compared to the road width in the Netherlands. While the Netherlands is one of the safest countries in the world, non-urban 80 km/h roads are the unsafest road type. 

They published this table (I translated it to English) about lane width. As you can see the Dutch lane width is substantially more narrow than the other countries, often by half a meter or more.










They note that with a lane width of 2.75 meters, a standard 2.55 meter wide truck (excluding mirrors) have a very low margin of error. In addition, because of the non-existent shoulders, crashes involving the roadside occur much more often than they should, because there is very little room for correcting the vehicle. It is common in the Netherlands to have a roadside with soft soil, and sometimes the pavement is 5 - 10 cm higher than the adjoining road side, resulting vehicles that veer off the road being much harder to correct back into the lane safely, often causing oversteering and crashing into oncoming traffic or the roadside on the left side of the road (potentially into water or trees).


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## flierfy

ChrisZwolle said:


> This was widely picked up in the media, because the report found the Dutch lanes for non-urban, non-motorway major roads are the narrowest in the world. The standard lane width is only 2.75 meters. The standard road width is 7.50 meters, while 8.50 - 9.50 meters is internationally the norm.


The Netherlands have one of densest motorway network which connects every bigger town. This dense motorway network lifts the burden of rural all-purpose roads to carry large numbers of traffic in general and HGV-traffic in particular. The rural roads are left, then, with the grateful task to handle traffic to small towns and villages only. For which rather narrow road widths are sufficient.


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## ChrisZwolle

There are many two-lane roads that carry heavy traffic of 15 000 - 20 000 vehicles per day. Whether that traffic is local or long-distance is irrelevant for traffic safety considerations.


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## Slagathor

That widening is loooong overdue. It's effectively a 1x1 motorway with all those trucks!


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## ChrisZwolle

*N7, Groningen*

The design environmental impact assessment of the reconstruction of the N7 expressway in the northern city of Groningen has been published. 

This € 670 million project will widen the N7 and put it partially underground. In addition, the Julianaplein traffic light intersection will become a free-flow interchange. It is the most expensive project on a "per kilometer" basis in the Netherlands at € 150 million/km. It is a very space-constraint project.

Very good renders:


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## Batavier

Why is it still numbered as an N-road? It can't be the speed limit, because there are other A-roads with 80kmh zones and the new configuration seem to remove all intersections.


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## Agnette

My route through Groningen last month:

Map: http://goo.gl/maps/Yzy0Q


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## ChrisZwolle

Politics probably. Groningen is governed by left-wing parties and building an expressway instead of a motorway probably reduces some of the political banter about "paving over the Netherlands". It appears that the expressway status will actually be extended westward to the Hoogkerk interchange. Currently motorway status begins just west of Julianaplein. The 100-80 km/h change will be just east of the Hoogkerk interchange. 

The speed limit over the entire project will be 80 km/h. The lanes will be relatively narrow at 3.10 meters, which mean expressway status is more appropriate.

Procedures for this project have started in 1992, but not much has been done until the mid-2000s. The noise mitigation report has 1066 pages.


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## Cpt.Iglo

Two more renders of the N7 Groningen:


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## javimix19

- What is the most used pass between Holland and Germany? And between Holland and Belgium?

- Do you know what is the most used motorway in Holland? I don't know, but my bet is A2, A12 and A20.


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## ChrisZwolle

I assume you mean border crossing by "pass". The busiest border crossing is Hazeldonk (A16-E19) with 65 000 vehicles per day. This is also the busiest border crossing in all of Europe. 

The busiest motorway is A4 at Den Haag (The Hague) between the Ypenburg (A13) and Prins Clausplein (A12) interchanges. This segment carries 238 100 vehicles per day on 16 lanes.


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## Road_UK

Between Germany I suppose it's safe to say A12, A3 Arnhem-Oberhausen?


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## keokiracer

Road_UK said:


> Between Germany I suppose it's safe to say A12, A3 Arnhem-Oberhausen?


I think it is now, yeah. A67-BAB40 used to be busier, but I think the new A74-BAB61 might have taken some traffic away from it.

2011 data: A67-BAB40: 34.000 vpd, A12-BAB3: 31.000
But as said, A74 opened in 2012...


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## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> I assume you mean border crossing by "pass". The busiest border crossing is Hazeldonk (A16-E19) with 65 000 vehicles per day. This is also the *busiest border crossing in all of Europe*.
> .


Maybe I'm wrong, but don't the Swiss/German A2/A6 (Basel) and Swiss/Italian A2/A9 (Chiasso) crossings have more daily traffic than A16?


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## ChrisZwolle

Chiasso is probably the second-busiest border crossing in Europe with 54 200 vehicles per day. However the border crossing at Basel is not extremely busy because there are two nearby alternate border crossings. The A5 border crossing from Germany into Switzerland carries 29 800 vehicles per day. The A3-A35 border crossing from Basel into France is busier with 47 200 vehicles per day. 

Despite European integration, border crossings with more than 45 000 vehicles per day are quite rare. This is especially visible at language borders, for example Dutch A2 - Belgian E25 carries only 22 800 vehicles per day, despite the vicinity of two large cities (Maastricht & Liège).


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## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*

Recent aerial photos of A4 under construction between Delft and Schiedam. 

Kethelplein interchange (A4/A20)









Kethelplein









Kethelplein, looking north to commieblock central Schiedam









Construction in northern Schiedam.









Construction south of Delft.


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## snowdog

Long overdue A4, and uncecessarily expensive, but better than that un-used piece of grass & sand...


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## ChrisZwolle

*N7 / A28 knooppunt Julianaplein*

The design of the new Julianaplein interchange. It is currently a traffic light intersection.


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## javimix19

ChrisZwolle said:


> The busiest motorway is A4 at Den Haag (The Hague) between the Ypenburg (A13) and Prins Clausplein (A12) interchanges. This segment carries 238 100 vehicles per day on 16 lanes.


Wow, I never thought that this segment carries that traffic. I thought that Amsterdam Ring (A10) for example is more busiest. (I say Amsterdam because is the biggest city in Holland).

- I have one more question. I know that in Holland all motorways are toll free, but I know too that there are some stretches tolled. What are this stretches?


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## Slagathor

^^ Tolled sections are typically stretches of motorways that were expensive to build, such as tunnels and bridges. These tolls are usually temporary to compensate for the construction costs. 

Roads that are currently tolled:
A9 - Wijker tunnel (shadow toll, motorway).
A15 - Noord tunnel (shadow toll, motorway).
N62 - Westerschelde tunnel (expressway).
N217 - Kil tunnel (expressway).

Roads that are under consideration for future toll:
A13-A16 connection that will be construction around Rotterdam.
A15 extension that will be constructed between Ressen and Zevenaar.
A24 Blankenburg tunnel that will be constructed in the Rotterdam seaport.
A38 Tunnel that will be constructed underneath the Meuse river near Krimpen.

Roads that used to be tolled:
A4 Benelux tunnel (until 1980).
A29 Haringvliet bridge (until 1975).
N256 Zeeland bridge (expressway, until 1993).
N323 Prins Willem-Alexander bridge (expressway, until 1996).


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## Suburbanist

^^ I thought that at some point the Afsluitdijk was tolled as well.


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## Slagathor

^^ I had to google that, but it seems you're right. The Afsluitdijk had a toll charge from its opening but I couldn't find any source that mentioned when it was abolished.


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## ChrisZwolle

Tolls on the Afsluitdijk were levied only one year in 1932-1933. It was abolished 25 September 1933. The tolls brought in 100 000 NLG at the time. The tolls were a staggering 1 NLG, a huge sum of money at the time, it would be the equivalent of circa € 25 today.


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## domtoren

*Around Utrecht*

A12, Harmelen:










Where A2 was, Leidsche Rijn:


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## ChrisZwolle

*A32, Leeuwarden*

A new exit along A32 opened to traffic today. It is Exit 16 Wirdum, just south of Leeuwarden. It is part of the Leeuwarden Bypass project that upgrades N31, A32, N32 and several local roads.

here's a new sign installed;


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## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Amsterdam - Utrecht*

The speed limit on A2 will likely be raised from 100 to 130 km/h in early 2014 on the stretch between Holendrecht interchange (A9) and Vinkeveen (N201). This would create a uniform 130 km/h speed limit on the rural segment of 2x5 A2 between Amsterdam and Utrecht. It depends on a nitrogen mitigation program that will start in 2014.


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## Suburbanist

It is interesting to compare the height of the sign and the workers. I always underestimate those signs' size when passing through them at high speeds.


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## keokiracer

Suburbanist said:


> It is interesting to compare the height of the sign and the workers. I always underestimate those signs' size when passing through them at high speeds.


I had the same thing when I went onto the highway A4 nearby just before the short stretch exit Tholen - Klutsdorp was opened. The sign was humongous! I have a picture of me standing right next to the sign. My shoulder comes to the bottom part of the sign :nuts::nuts:


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## ChrisZwolle

*N18 Varsseveld - Enschede*

The final environmental impact assessment and record of decision has been published for the N18 upgrade.

The N18 will see minor upgrades around Varsseveld, and major upgrades between Groenlo and Enschede. The Groenlo - Haaksbergen segment (20.1 km) will get 2x1 lanes with median and grade-separation. The Haaksbergen - Enschede segment (7.8 km) will get 2x2 lanes with grade-separation. The interchange with A35 will be reconstructed. The speed limit will be 100 km/h throughout the upgraded segment. Most of N18 between Groenlo and Enschede will be constructed on a new alignment.

Construction will likely commence in 2015 and be completed by 2017/2018. Construction cost is € 308 million, of which the national government pays € 179 million. The main goal of this upgrade is traffic safety, not traffic flow, which is why the southern 20 kilometers will get you stuck behind trucks with no options to pass them.


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## javimix19

I have some questions today:

- I like a lot that Netherlands hasn't tolls on it's motorways, but how many money spend Holland Government to maintain it's motorways yearly? Holland is a very rich country and it's motorways I think that are in very good condition but it has a cost. It is not planned to install tolls in Holland Motorways?

- A-7 motorway is closed in Afsluitdijk when there is storm? I think that this stretch is dangerous because is a ****, but I don't know so I ask.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

javimix19 said:


> - I like a lot that Netherlands hasn't tolls on it's motorways, but how many money spend Holland Government to maintain it's motorways yearly? Holland is a very rich country and it's motorways I think that are in very good condition but it has a cost. It is not planned to install tolls in Holland Motorways?


It was once planned to introduce a congestion charge to price poor people off the road and out of job possibilities to reduce congestion. This was fortunately not implemented.

The annual expenditure on roads varies. The 2013 road budget (maintenance, widening, new construction & operations of national roads & motorways) is € 2.7 billion.



> - A-7 motorway is closed in Afsluitdijk when there is storm? I think that this stretch is dangerous because is a ****, but I don't know so I ask.


I never heard it was closed due to high winds. There is a dike on the sea-side of the dam to prevent overwash from waves and also reduce winds impacting traffic. The dam is a critical connection with no alternate routes.


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## ChrisZwolle

*fuel taxes*

Fuel taxes will increase on 1 January 2014.

Fuel tax on Diesel will go up by 3 cents, on LPG by 7 cents. No raise of gasoline tax is anticipated. According to the ministry of economic affairs, this is the only tax raise planned, but there will also be a consumer price index (CPI) indexation, which means a further increase in fuel taxes. 

Starting 2014, the fuel taxes will be;

* gasoline: € 0.75 per liter + 21% VAT + 21% VAT over the market price
* diesel: € 0.47 per liter + 21% VAT + 21% VAT over the market price
* LPG: € 0.23 per liter + 21% VAT + 21% VAT over the market price

The fuel tax raised € 8 billion in 2011 (3 times the expenditure on roads), up from € 6 billion in 2005.


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## Slagathor

javimix19 said:


> - A-7 motorway is closed in Afsluitdijk when there is storm? I think that this stretch is dangerous because is a ****, but I don't know so I ask.


The Afsluitdijk, like Chris said, is never closed due to high winds. As you can see, it's higher on the left:










The highest part is the seaside of the **** and that's where the storms come from. So the road enjoys some protection from the winds.

In Zeeland they sometimes close roads because of high winds, but those closures are typically limited to trucks and trailers. Cars are always allowed to keep driving, although sometimes the maximum speed is lowered. These roads include the dams on the N57 (such as the Eastern Scheldt barrier) and the Zeeland bridge.


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## Road_UK

ChrisZwolle said:


> The dam is a critical connection with no alternate routes.


Well, from Amsterdam you have the option to use the Noordoostpolder route (A6) and of course we've got the Markerwaard route from Enkhuizen to Lelystad... 

You won't be completely stranded if they had to close it off for any reason...


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## keokiracer

Slagathor said:


> These roads include the dams on the N57 (such as the Eastern Scheldt barrier)


Don't forget the Moerdijk bridge


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## Penn's Woods

Road_UK said:


> Well, from Amsterdam you have the option to use the Noordoostpolder route (A6) and of course we've got the Markerwaard route from Enkhuizen to Lelystad...
> 
> You won't be completely stranded if they had to close it off for any reason...


You know, one man's "inconvenienced" is another man's "stranded." ;-)


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## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Badhoevedorp*

Construction of the A9 around Badhoevedorp will commence in November 2013. The project will remove A9 from Badhoevedorp along a new, wider alignment with 2x3 lanes. The A4/A9 interchange will be entirely reconstructed.


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## Penn's Woods

What are they doing with the old alignment?


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## ChrisZwolle

It will be demolished and turned into a city park and perhaps some new developments. It will be redundant and expensive to fit within the new alignment. The current 2x2 A9 carries 97 000 vehicles per day. 

The motorway was constructed at the same time the new neighborhoods around it were developed in the mid-1960s.


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## g.spinoza

When is this expected to be ready?


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## flierfy

Penn's Woods said:


> What are they doing with the old alignment?


The graphic says te slopen. So you can expect the motorway to make way for a long grass strip there.


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## Suburbanist

g.spinoza said:


> When is this expected to be ready?


According to the project path graph (upper right) on that render, should be 2018.

The problem with any road alignment in NL is that they need to let embankments settle for a while before paving over


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## ChrisZwolle

2018 is the completion of the entire project, including the demolition of the old motorway and landscaping. The motorway will likely be ready in 2017. As Suburbanist remarked, they need to build a new embankment first that needs to settle. During that time only bridgeworks are possible. 

The reconstruction of the Badhoevedorp interchange is quite complex because the whole direction of the interchange will be changed, while preserving railway access in the median of A4.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

javimix19 said:


> - Here in Spain we have a lot 2x2 motorways with less traffic than 14 000 vehicles per day. You don't think with that traffic is not necessary a motorway now?


The circumstances are not the same. The construction cost of motorways in Spain is very low, especially for these low-volume motorways, which generally cost less than € 4 million per kilometer. The project cost for N61 is € 121 million, or € 5.7 million per kilometer, for mostly 2x1 lanes with roundabouts. And this is a low construction cost by Dutch standards. 

However, it could be argued that N61 is the most important road in Zeeuws-Vlaanderen (the subprovincial area where it is located) and other projects with similar traffic volumes do get 2x2 and grade-separation. Examples are N18, N31, N50, N280, N356, N381, etc. 

However, these projects are chiefly funded by provincial governments, whereas N61 is funded by the national government, while N61 is one of the least important national roads in the Netherlands. The priorities are thereby different. Nearby N62, which is now administered by Zeeland province, does get widened to a full 2x2 expressway.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A4, Hoofddorp interchanges*

The new A4 interchanges near Hoofddorp, southwest of Amsterdam, will open to traffic December 15. The project is part of the N201+ project which improves mobility south of Amsterdam. 

Collector roads were added to the existing A4 motorway, expanding the number of lanes from 10 to 14 (16 lanes between interchanges).


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## keokiracer

javimix19 said:


> - How many new motorways are under construction in Holland? (not extending existing motorways, but new ones)


None.
Only extensions or filling in 'gaps' (like the A4 Delft - Schiedam and Dinteloord - Halsteren)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9, Amstelveen*

Some big news today, which was already anticipated amongst road enthusiasts, the planned _Keizer Karel Tunnel_ (Emperor Charles Tunnel) in Amstelveen has been scrapped.

It was planned to construct a 1.9 kilometer tunnel in Amstelveen, to widen the A9 motorway from 6 to 8 lanes, with space for 10 lanes. Because this tunnel is legally not necessary to let the project proceed, it was agreed that the Amstelveen municipality would pay € 100 million to cover the cost of this extra-legal measure. However due to the poor real estate market and recession, Amstelveen cannot live up to this agreement.

The tunnel has been scrapped, and will be replaced by a depressed segment, 1300 meters in length, with a short roof over the motorway (likely less than 250 meters). This will require new procedures for this project.

The A9 widening is part of the large Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere megaproject which will widen 64 kilometers of motorway for € 4.6 billion. The widening will serve over 600,000 motorists per day.


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## Penn's Woods

OT, but 
Keizer Karel? The same one who shows up in Brussels (Avenue Charles-Quint/Keizer Karellaan)?

My knowledge of Low Countries history is, um, small, but I thought he was on what in Holland would be perceived as the enemy side of the 16th century revolt. Sort of like naming something here after George III.

Just curious.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N207, Gouda*

Some sluices have two bridges to alternate traffic flows, to keep traffic flowing. This is N207 in Gouda, which is a pretty busy road.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

First time I was there I stopped at the open bridge. It took a little while wondering why the que wasn't growing and all the traffic was turning off behind me before I realised there was a second bridge.


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## Suburbanist

They have something like that on IJmuiden (2 sets of twin gates)


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ That sea lock will be replaced by a much larger one. Cost is € 850 million.


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## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ That sea lock will be replaced by a much larger one. Cost is € 850 million.


Amsterdam needs that if they want to keep their port competitive.


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## ChrisZwolle

The current locks are nearing the end of their lifespan and need replacement anyway. But another obstacle is the Velser Tunnel (A22), they cannot make the canal any deeper. The Wijker Tunnel (A9) was built deeper in the ground to allow deepening of the canal


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## sotonsteve

ChrisZwolle said:


> The circumstances are not the same. The construction cost of motorways in Spain is very low, especially for these low-volume motorways, which generally cost less than € 4 million per kilometer. The project cost for N61 is € 121 million, or € 5.7 million per kilometer, for mostly 2x1 lanes with roundabouts. And this is a low construction cost by Dutch standards.


And that is cheap by British standards. On the M25 south of London they are implementing something called "Managed Motorways" between J5 and J7. The road handled an average of 142,000 vehicles per day last year on three lanes each direction, although 130,000 is more common most years. The cost of the scheme is £129million for 17km (EUR 153million), which works out at £7.6million per km or EUR 9million. The works involve the hard shoulder being permanently converted to a traffic lane with refuges built up to 2.5km apart. Construction wise, aside from the refuges the central reservation barrier and drainage is being replaced, and electronic signs installed about every 1km, mostly cantilever rather than gantry. EUR 9million per km for basically some drainage, a crash barrier, some new electronic signage, cameras, the odd refuge and some paint. Proper road widening is almost completely out of the question in Britain now, as is widening on the cheap with shoulders disappearing at bridges.

The Netherlands has a fantastic road network that is a pleasure to drive on, and the country is really building for the future.


----------



## aswnl

Penn's Woods said:


> OT, but
> Keizer Karel? The same one who shows up in Brussels (Avenue Charles-Quint/Keizer Karellaan)?
> 
> My knowledge of Low Countries history is, um, small, but I thought he was on what in Holland would be perceived as the enemy side of the 16th century revolt. Sort of like naming something here after George III.
> 
> Just curious.


Keizer Karel de Grote (Emperor Charles the Great, also known as Charlemagne)
He lived 742-812 AD.


----------



## woutero

Penn's Woods said:


> OT, but
> Keizer Karel? The same one who shows up in Brussels (Avenue Charles-Quint/Keizer Karellaan)?
> 
> My knowledge of Low Countries history is, um, small, but I thought he was on what in Holland would be perceived as the enemy side of the 16th century revolt. Sort of like naming something here after George III.
> 
> Just curious.


It is a little confusing.

Keizer Karel in Flanders refers to who we in The Netherlands call Karel V (as do the French: Charles-Quint)

Keizer Karel in The Netherlands usually refers to Charlemagne, although he is more commonly called Karel de Grote (Charles the Great).

In Amstelveen, a neighborhood, a road and many other things are named Keizer Karel, hence also the name of the (canceled) tunnel.

Karel V actually died well before the Dutch revolt started (although he wasn't too keen on the whole protestant thing).


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## Penn's Woods

Thanks! Learned something useful today. (I may forget it tomorrow...)

:cheers:


----------



## Slagathor

Penn's Woods said:


> OT, but
> Keizer Karel? The same one who shows up in Brussels (Avenue Charles-Quint/Keizer Karellaan)?
> 
> My knowledge of Low Countries history is, um, small, but I thought he was on what in Holland would be perceived as the enemy side of the 16th century revolt. Sort of like naming something here after George III.
> 
> Just curious.


Charlemagne = Karel de Grote.

EDIT: 2 people already got there, how the heck did I miss that!


----------



## javimix19

ChrisZwolle said:


> The circumstances are not the same. The construction cost of motorways in Spain is very low, especially for these low-volume motorways, which generally cost less than € 4 million per kilometer. The project cost for N61 is € 121 million, or € 5.7 million per kilometer, for mostly 2x1 lanes with roundabouts. And this is a low construction cost by Dutch standards.


I don't understand why motorways cost is higher in Holland than in Spain. Holland is a flat country.

Perhaps is because high population density? Or because a lot of Holland parts are under sea level and there is necessary drainage? I don't know.


----------



## Road_UK

Better quality? Things like open concrete and noise reduction surface for example...


----------



## Slagathor

D) All of the above.


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## MichiH

Expensive ecological buildings, NIMBYs,...

The corruption ratio should be less.


----------



## Road_UK

Planning, discussions, red light, green light... No wait... Oh Ok...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Maastricht*

The new tunnel in Maastricht is now officially named the "Koning Willem-Alexandertunnel" (King Willem-Alexander Tunnel). The tunnel will open in 2016.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

sotonsteve said:


> And that is cheap by British standards. (...) "Managed Motorways" (...)


I must say I'm surprised by the high construction cost of managed motorway schemes in the United Kingdom. The Dutch shoulder running schemes are not as costly, the major cost is operational (CCTV + detection, matrix signs, etc.) and widening slip roads for a double merge, combined with the occasional SOS stop.

The Dutch left shoulder running schemes are much more expensive though, because it involves a physical widening (and in most cases, complete rebuilding) of the motorway. They want to turn some of the left shoulder running into permanent lanes to reduce operational cost.


----------



## kubam4a1

Chris, 

I would like to ask a somehow dumb question concerning the shoulder running projects in Netherlands. Does a shoulder running provide with an extra regular lane, or only "lengthened" right turn lane so a main flow goes with regular number of lanes anyway?

I would be grateful if you gave some examples (ie video). On some Polish forums opponents of the urban motorways say "Yes they have A10 in Amsterdam, but it is 2x2, has narrow lanes 2.9 m and 80 limit." From what I read here, I see this is not true - but I could not find pics of southern A10 with 4 lanes... Are there any other places on the A10, except for the southern which is currently being widened, and Coentunnel-A8, where A10 has more than 3 lanes of traffic?

Thank you in advance.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Shoulder running is continuous at exits. So if there are normally 2x2 lanes for through traffic, shoulder running will provide 2x3 lanes. They double the merging lanes to allow traffic to enter the motorway while shoulder running is in operation. This means you have to merge twice instead of once if shoulder running is closed.

Shoulder running is not on narrower lanes, except when shoulder running is on the left side of the motorway. Right shoulder lanes have full width of 3.50 meters, otherwise it would be tricky for trucks.

You can see some shoulder running in operation in this video:


----------



## keokiracer

kubam4a1 said:


> Chris


Is it okay if I answer the questions too? 




kubam4a1 said:


> I would like to ask a somehow dumb question concerning the shoulder running projects in Netherlands. Does a shoulder running provide with an extra regular lane, or only "lengthened" right turn lane so a main flow goes with regular number of lanes anyway?
> I would be grateful if you gave some examples (ie video)


Here's some video footage I uploaded earlier for SSC. The shoulder running continues, it's not just between exits. I can't provide you with footage with shoulder running actually being done, only with the lane closed. I lost all my footage recently so I basically have nothing...  Luckily I see that Chris DOES have some footage 








kubam4a1 said:


> "Yes they have A10 in Amsterdam, but it is 2x2, has narrow lanes 2.9 m and 80 limit."


If they're referring to the Coen tunnel, they're partially right. Lanes are narrower (3,25 I believe) but expansion is on the way. The small tube with 2 lanes will become a tube with 2 reversible lanes. The speed limit is not 80, it's 100 in the tunnel, but likely will soon be lowered to 90 km/h.
There is a partial 80 km/h stretch west of Amsterdam, controlled with section control. But lanes are normal width there.



kubam4a1 said:


> From what I read here, I see this is not true - but I could not find pics of southern A10 with 4 lanes...


There is only one 4-lane stretch on the recently opened part on the southeast of Amsterdam. I assume that's what you meant with the southern part that was being widened, here's the location to be sure. The widening of this part was recently finished btw. The rest of the A10 has 3 lanes per direction.



kubam4a1 said:


> Are there any other places on the A10, except for the southern which is currently being widened, and Coentunnel-A8, where A10 has more than 3 lanes of traffic?


 In the future the A10 on the southside between interchanges De Nieuwe Meer and Amstel will have more than 3 lanes. It will be a parallel system with 3 through lanes and only 1 parallel lane (which is ridiculous btw). It's a joint project with rail expansion there. The A10 might be put under the ground in a long tunnel


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Leeuwarden bypass*

The Leeuwarden bypass has been under construction for a while. A municipal project is the construction of the "Westelijke invalsweg", or western entrance road, a 2x2 road that connects N31 with Leeuwarden. This will become the main entrance to Leeuwarden from the west.

They've changed the technical design of an aqueduct under the Van Harinxma Canal, which means they are behind schedule due to a changed construction process. They are currently working 18 hours a day (from 6 am to midnight) and Saturdays as well. The project will be finished by late 2014.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Den Bosch - Eindhoven*

Fall is coming! This photo was taken a year ago, now it's widened to 2x3 lanes.


----------



## bozenBDJ

^ Ah, so nice!   .


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Duinpolderweg*

Procedures for the construction of the new "Duinpolderweg" (Dune-Polder Road) are now proceeding into the phase of environmental impact assessment. A preferred alternative will be chosen next year.

The Duinpolderweg will connect N206 with A4. N206 is currently a high-standard two-lane road in Zuid-Holland province, but turns into a slow urban road with speed limits as low as 30 km/h and on-road cyclists at the border with Noord-Holland province. 

The new road will connect with the new Hoofddorp-Zuid interchange with A4. The area will likely see massive subdivision development over the next few decades. 300,000 houses are projected to be constructed in the so-called "SMASH area" (a term for regional development in Schiphol-Amsterdam-Haarlemmermeer), most of it near this route. 

possible alignment:


----------



## javimix19

I like a lot tunnels. I didn't think in a flat Holland there is a tunnel of more than 6 km. It is the longest tunnel in Netherlands: Western Scheldt Tunnel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Scheldt_Tunnel










- And other question: Do you know where is that pass? I like a lot.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That large photo is the Zelzate Tunnel in Belgium. The last photo is the same location as my current avatar, the A4 / HSR aqueduct at the border of Noord- & Zuid-Holland provinces near Roelofarendsveen.


----------



## Slagathor

javimix19, could you please delete the large photo from your post? It barely fits on the screen and it's not a Dutch tunnel. Thanks!


----------



## Penn's Woods

javimix19 said:


> I like a lot tunnels. I didn't think in a flat Holland there is a tunnel of more than 6 km. It is the longest tunnel in Netherlands: Western Scheldt Tunnel.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Scheldt_Tunnel


Is there a natural reason that the terrain in Zeeland is actually lighter in color than in Flanders, or was the Belgian imagery just taken at a different time of year than the Dutch? (OT, perhaps, but it's quite striking.)


----------



## Slagathor

^^ The border between Zeeuws-Vlaanderen and Belgium roughly marks the change in terrain from clay soil to sand. I'm not sure if that's the reason for the color differential in this particular photo, but I have seen other photos and imagery without the border drawn in where you could still make it out in a similar fashion. That would also explain why Noord-Brabant (around Bergen op Zoom) in that photo has the same color as Belgium: it, too, has sandy soil.

I should add that if you take that shot in summer, you won't be able to tell where the border is because all the farms are green on both sides. If you take the shot in winter, when the fields in Zeeland are plowed and barren, the transition from clay to sand is quite obviously visible.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1, Amsterdam*

Construction will commence on September 30 on a 4 kilometer segment of A1 near Amsterdam, westbound from the Diemen interchange (A9) to the Watergraafsmeer interchange (A10). The motorway will be widened from 3 to 4 lanes in the direction of Amsterdam. Widening works in the other direction are already well underway. 

They will close the shoulder until mid-2014, which means there is no shoulder running available during that period. This will likely result in some more congestion than the other recent A1-A10 projects in Amsterdam. However, there is an alternate route available that has the same length, by taking A9 and A2 to Amsterdam. These routes are capable of absorbing the excess traffic from A1, because A9 got shoulder running in 2010.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A59 Waalwijk - 's-Hertogenbosch*

All interchanges along A59 between Waalwijk and 's-Hertogenbosch will be either removed or reconstructed.

The A59 was constructed by twinning the N59, a result is a high frequency of (incomplete) interchanges. There used to be 9 exits over a distance of 14 kilometers. 

Several interchanges will be removed and the other ones will be reconstructed into full interchanges. The narrow bridge across the canal will be replaced by a wider one with shoulders. 

This stretch of A59 is an urbanized corridor, with fairly high volumes for 2x2 lanes, between 65.000 and 85.000 vehicles per day.










I filmed this stretch of motorway two years ago:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15/A29 Vaanplein interchange, Rotterdam*

An aerial photo of the Vaanplein interchange between A15 and A29 in Rotterdam.


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> All interchanges along A59 between Waalwijk and 's-Hertogenbosch will be either removed or reconstructed.
> 
> The A59 was constructed by twinning the N59, a result is a high frequency of (incomplete) interchanges. There used to be 9 exits over a distance of 14 kilometers.
> 
> Several interchanges will be removed and the other ones will be reconstructed into full interchanges. The narrow bridge across the canal will be replaced by a wider one with shoulders.
> 
> This stretch of A59 is an urbanized corridor, with fairly high volumes for 2x2 lanes, between 65.000 and 85.000 vehicles per day.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/UgrCipg.png[IMG]
> 
> I filmed this stretch of motorway two years ago:
> 
> [youtube]R4Q-nv56zBE[youtube][/QUOTE]
> 
> Shame imo, will greatly reduce the mobility to some areas, some neghborhoods now next to the exit will have to travel at least 6 minutes more :(.
> 
> Can the roads like the N261 cope with all the extra traffic from the old exits?
> 
> 
> imo they shouldn't waste money mocking up anything between Waalwijk and Den Bosch, but instead improve knp. Hooipolder!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A few new roads will be constructed to handle local traffic. Nowadays A59 handles a large amount of short-distance traffic because there are no alternate routes. All this weaving leads to accidents and congestion.


----------



## Slagathor

I very rarely buy gas at a motorway service station in this country. I typically take a small detour through town to the cheapeast gas station _before_ I head out on a long motorway journey.

I'm probably not the only one who does that.


----------



## Suburbanist

Slagathor said:


> I very rarely buy gas at a motorway service station in this country. I typically take a small detour through town to the cheapeast gas station _before_ I head out on a long motorway journey.
> 
> I'm probably not the only one who does that.


Gasoline is often cheaper on gas stations located at industrial parks (where diesel is often more expensive).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I never refueled along a motorway in the Netherlands, except when my boss was paying the bill. 

Discount fuel is part of psychology. You don't actually save that much money on fuel if you consistently refuel at unmanned gas station. If you drive 18 000 kilometers per year, on average 14 km/L, you would pay € 2185 in gas if you refuel at € 1.70/l and € 2315 if you refuel at € 1.80/l, the difference being € 130 per year, or 6%. I don't know about you guys, but for me such a difference is not really relevant, I spend that kind of money more or less in the supermarket, DVDs, entertainment, dinners, monthly health insurance premium etc. It's more for "feel good" reasons than anything else.


----------



## Road_UK

I always fill up on motorways using company fuel cards. When I do long hauls I don't like leaving the motorway. I making exceptions for Autohofs in Germany.

In Sweden you don't have much of a choice. Between Helsingborg and Stockholm there's only one set attached to the motorway. And if I'm off the motorway anyway I'll use unmanned stations like AS24 or IDS...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A6, Almere*

A large amount of trees have been cut to make way for the A6 widening. This stretch of A6 will be widened from 4 to 8 lanes, using a local-express setup. Construction will begin next year. Most of the trees were planted in the late 1970s when this part of Flevoland was drained and developed. It used to be the bottom of the sea. The trees are cut before the breeding season starts next year.


S1030053_A6_close by JackBauer1350, on Flickr


S1030050_Brandhout_A6 by JackBauer1350, on Flickr


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## Road_UK

Which stretch is this exactly? Start of bridge through Almere?


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## ChrisZwolle

It's between exits 3 and 4 in Almere, about 4 kilometers past the Holland's Bridge (Hollandsebrug).


----------



## Road_UK

I thought so. The busiest part. It gets quieter after Almere. And hardly anything after Lelystad...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 's-Hertogenbosch - Eindhoven*

The A2 widening between the cities of 's-Hertogenbosch (Den Bosch) and Eindhoven has been completed this morning. There are now 3 lanes each way.

I took opportunity of the great weather and took a small road trip to Best, where the last works were done last night.


A2 Best 2x3-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A2 Best 2x3-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A2 Best 2x3-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A2 Best 2x3-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A2 Best 2x3-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A2 Best 2x3-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


A2 Best 2x3-7 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 's-Hertogenbosch - Eindhoven video*

A video of the widened A2 (see photos above)


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## ChrisZwolle

*2003 - 2013 new capacity*

An overview of new capacity added between 2003 and 2013.

These can be;

* shoulder running
* physical widening
* new motorways

As you can see the Rotterdam area has seen the least improvements, but construction focuses more on this area between 2012 and 2020.


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## keokiracer

Chris, you forgot the A4 passing my hometown (2007)


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## Eric Offereins

ChrisZwolle said:


> An overview of new capacity added between 2003 and 2013.
> 
> These can be;
> 
> * shoulder running
> * physical widening
> * new motorways
> 
> As you can see the Rotterdam area has seen the least improvements, but construction focuses more on this area between 2012 and 2020.


Correct. At the moment there is a huge expansion project of the A15 underway near Rotterdam.
Aim is to improve access to the port.


----------



## jorgegil

*Traffic volume counts*

Hi there,

Does anyone know where I can get statistics on the amount of traffic in terms of % of total volume, or number of cars, on motorways, main roads, rural and urban roads in the Netherlands, by province.

And are the traffic counts of the installed meters available?

I've found data from CBS, but rather than volume giving totals it gives %change amounts relative to the base year (2000).

Thank you,
Jorge


----------



## Koesj

Jorge,

As far as I know only motorway figures _were_ readily available back when they were put out by the national authority's dataportal. These days everything is inside secondary databases (like MTR+) which are not easily accessible by the general public. Chris should know way more about this since he still quotes recent volume figures on forums 

I could give you the INWEVA figures ('estimated intensities on stretches of road') as of 2005 (I think 2006 was actually the last year they came out) but these sums are only for national roads (mostly freeways) and there's no geographical differentiation (so for provincial level calculations you'd have to sort the numbers yourself). Send me a PM if you're interested, I could also do a quick and dirty translation if needed.

_e:_

I used these figures for my thesis and got these historical results for the Randstad:

"Vehicles per day"


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Unfortunately traffic data from _rijkswegen_ is not easily to obtain. Most provinces publish traffic counts on provincial roads (often updated annually), but the national road counts have not been publicly released since INWEVA 2006. I know they do update INWEVA every year (INWEVA 2010 and 2011 are available internally), but it hasn't been published since the '06 edition. 

An alternative is MTR+ which has all permanent counting locations, it's usually behind by 4 - 5 months, but not all segments have permanent counters. From what I've seen, 2011 is the most recent available data for the entire network at MTR+. You need a Citrix receiver to access MTR+ traffic data. 

INWEVA (Inschatting Wegvakintensiteit) used to be the best dataset because it had traffic counts for each segment (between two exits) and it had the truck share. 

Municipalities rarely publish traffic data. Sometimes you can find it at the environmental section of a city website.


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## keokiracer

I once made this map with data from the Wegenwiki that Chris put there from MTR+


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N59*

An aerial photo of the N59 - N257 interchange in Zeeland province. The 2012 AADT on N59 was 14.600 vehicles per day.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N356 De Centrale As*

Construction of the N356 / N913 interchange on the south side of Burgum, Friesland. It is part of the "Centrale As" expressway project from N31 to Dokkum.


----------



## Suburbanist

Short video about works on Galecopper bridge on A12


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The current Galecopper Bridge opened to traffic in two phases in 1971 and 1976. The current 12-lane bridge replaced a 4-lane bridge. 

It is currently being renovated. The pavement on the bridge is very old and needs replacement. It is very noisy and uncomfortable by Dutch standards. It is part of a nationwide scheme to strengthen steel bridges, most of which were built in the 1970s. 

The Galecopper Bridge will be strengthened and the steel deck will be replaced in 2014-2015. The bridge will also be jacked up by 70 centimeters to improve shipping clearance. Steel bridges are flexible enough to allow such jacking without needing to replace the entire bridgehead. The cost of this renovation is € 80 million.

As you can see in the video they had some problems with the sheet piling, which was harder than anticipated and also produced much more noise than anticipated, so they stopped the works at night.


----------



## javimix19

I like a lot Afsluitdijk civil work. This is one of the man made best infraestructure in the world I think. 

- I read in Wikipedia that causeway was open between 1927 and 1933, but do you know when motorway A7 was open?





































None of the images are mine. All photos taken by google. *Credits to their owners.*


----------



## keokiracer

In 1932 the gap in the Afsluitdijk was closed and the road on it opened in the same year as a normal (non-highway) road with tolls. The tolls were abolished 1 year later. The first stretch of highway was opened in 1969 and from december 3rd 1975 the entire Afsluitdijk had a highway going across.
There is a speed limit of only 70 near the sluices on both sides though.

Source (in Dutch)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A28 Utrecht - Amersfoort*

The A28 motorway was recently widened from 4 to 6 lanes, almost entirely eliminating traffic congestion on this key stretch of road. It was completed in the summer, when left shoulder running went into operation around Amersfoort. 

The situation around Amersfoort is temporary, and will be widened to 2x4 lanes when the Hoevelaken cloverleaf interchange will be replaced by something better, however this will not be completed until 2022.


----------



## ChasingCars

Just an ordinary thursday morning in The Netherlands. Weather is fine, no rain or snow.
And still, morning rushhour traffic has been jammed with a result of over 240 km of traffic jams. See link http://www.nu.nl/binnenland/3591765/ochtendspits-bijna-twee-keer-zo-druk-als-normaal.html (only in Dutch)

The bad news is that apparently, just a few accidents, occurring during peak hours, can result in serious jams spreading throughout the country.

The good news: as recent as 5 years ago, 240 km of traffic jams during a thursday morning rushhour would have been cold normal. Nowadays, with the economic downturn having its effect on car traffic as well as the large scale investments in motorways, 240 km is almost twice a normal morning rushhour, which counts around 150 km.


----------



## javimix19

^^

Regarding you comment I have to say that I have an image in my brain that Holland has a lot of traffic jams. I see a lot of images with jams in motorways of Holland. A lot of this images were from the 70's.

- How is the situation now? Holland has a lot of international traffic, but I don't know if is the problem.

With the improvements of motorways and diversification of transport (more bikes, more trains...) I expect that situation now is better, but I don't know.


----------



## MichiH

javimix19 said:


> *Holland* has a lot of international traffic


I think the situation is similar in the entire Netherlands .


----------



## ChasingCars

javimix19 said:


> ^^
> 
> Regarding you comment I have to say that I have an image in my brain that Holland has a lot of traffic jams. I see a lot of images with jams in motorways of Holland. A lot of this images were from the 70's.
> 
> - How is the situation now? Holland has a lot of international traffic, but I don't know if is the problem.
> 
> With the improvements of motorways and diversification of transport (more bikes, more trains...) I expect that situation now is better, but I don't know.


The situation has changed a lot, although (especially) the motorway network remains viable to disruptions. Like today, a few accidents on some of the main 'arteries' of the Dutch motorway network make that drivers all take the standard detour, thus creating even more bottlenecks.

The international traffic is not the only problem. There are numerous causes to mention, in my opinion the most important are:
- The geography: lots of rivers that are crossed by bridges and tunnels, many of whom are notorious congestors (although mostly the bridges are being renovated or replaced these days)
- Port of Rotterdam: lots of (international) truck traffic, that is mainly driving an easterly course to the Ruhrgebiet area in Germany and beyond
- A lot of large cities very closely situated in a very small country: Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague, Utrecht, Almere, but also the city of Eindhoven are all within an hour drive from eachother, making that the traffic is spread over a very small (short) strech of road (actually the same happens with train traffic in The Netherlands)
- Dutch people tend to live outside of the larger cities but do work in the city, causing a huge 'woon-werkverkeer' (traffic from home to the office and back). This is the result of years of planology by subsequent Dutch governments, who named this phenomenon 'gebundelde deconcentratie', which means something like 'living concentrated in urban area's but outside of the large cities'. As a result, there are cities where lots of people live but where there are almost no jobs (Almere is the best example).


----------



## Slagathor

Gebundelde deconcentratie was a huge mistake.


----------



## ChasingCars

Slagathor said:


> Gebundelde deconcentratie was a huge mistake.


Definately it was. It has ruined lots of nice villages with large scale urban area's that all look the same (the infamous 'Vinex locations).
Problem was that when the cities started to 'drain' in the 70's, no action was undertaken to make the city a more attractive place to live. Instead, everybody moved to the suburban area's. 
Nowadays an opposite movement is taking place, where everybody wants to live in the city, even after finishing studies and even after having children (like myself).
But maybe we're going a bit off topic now...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 average speed check*

The average speed check installation on A2 Utrecht - Amsterdam (5 lanes, 100 km/h) has resulted in 336,000 speeding fines in 4 months.

While this sounds like a whole lot, it actually isn't. 336,000 fines / 122 days = 2,750 fines per day. The average AADT on this stretch is 80,000 vehicles per day (one way), in other words, 96.6% of traffic does not get fined despite the ridiculous speed limit.

Nationwide, 3.4 million traffic fines were issued between May and August 2013 (4 months). 10% of those fines were issued on A2 between Utrecht and Amsterdam. All in all, 730,200 motorists were fined at various section control locations in the country.


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ Is the system on 24/7? It looks a lot like Italian Tutor system, which is not always on.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, it is similar to Tutor (Italy), section control (Austria) and SPECS (United Kingdom). 

But contrary to Italy, the average speed check installation in the Netherlands is almost always employed on motorways with a speed limit that is too low for conditions or road layout.


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> While this sounds like a whole lot, it actually isn't. 336,000 fines / 122 days = 2,750 fines per day. The average AADT on this stretch is 80,000 vehicles per day (one way), in other words, 96.6% of traffic does not get fined despite the ridiculous speed limit.


It is a lot, in the same 4 months in last year 420.000 fines were written on ALL motorway ''average speed sections''. This year it's 730.206.




> section fines
> A2 Amsterdam-Utrecht 335.921
> A4 Leidschendam 306.671
> A12 Utrecht 27.099
> A12 Harmelen-Woerden 18.360
> A58 Bergen op Zoom-Roosendaal 17.136
> A4 Hoofddorp-Nieuw Vennep 16.320
> A12 Den Haag-Voorburg 8.576
> Westerscheldetunnel 1325
> Zeelandbrug 647
> A10 Amsterdam 119
> A13 Rotterdam 4
> A20 Rotterdam 0


It's a complete disgrace, both the A2 and the A4 are:

Flat
Straight
Well lit
Through grassland/away from nature/away from major built up areas
Clear to see ahead
Wide ( 2x3 and 2x5 lanes respectively)

100km/h is a plain retarded limit on those 2 roads thought up by morons who belong in a clinic for mental illness (imho ).


pps.
The A20 and A13 sections were shut down for maintenance/refitting hence the low scores.

I think 720k fines in 4 months on just the average speed checks sections is a massive amount, that's more than 2 million per year if the trend continues.


----------



## Road_UK

You must be getting loads...


----------



## keokiracer

Road_UK said:


> You must be getting loads...


Probably not cause he knows where the speedtraps are


----------



## snowdog

Road_UK said:


> You must be getting loads...


Actually, I've had just 2 in 4 years of driving, a camera caught me doing 56 or 57 (@50) before correction about 2 years ago.

And in Germany 10 km/h to fast on the autobahn . 

I've also been caught speeding by police officers twice ( though that's even more in the past), but luckily they're actual people who let me off with a warning after a lecture, unlike automated cashing machines...

<20km/h to fast on a motorway and no normal copper will bat an eye... 




> Probably not cause he knows where the speedtraps are


In known areas, yep, otherwise, there's ''flitsnav'', highly recommend that app , also warns for mobile speed traps if they're submitted on flitsservice, otherwise you need a hawkeye for watching the side of the road and check your mirror regularly for VROS ( unmarked traffic cops) if you're really speeding ( I usually try to stay within the <40km/h mulder limit these days). You can quite comfortably always do Vmax + 20 everywhere if you know the environment on motorways and autowegen (express roads).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ChasingCars said:


> Nowadays, with the economic downturn having its effect on car traffic


Many people think traffic congestion is down due to the economy, but actually the amount of kilometers driven on the national road network reached a record high in 2012. Overall driving may be down or flat (especially measured per capita), but traffic on the motorway network is still growing.

mileage on the "_rijkswegen_":


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15, Botlek Bridge, Rotterdam*

A pano of the new Botlek Bridge in Rotterdam, taken today. They are performing days of continuous concrete pouring to erect the pylons. It is said to be the largest lift span bridge in Europe. (of course, you need to be careful with claims like that).


botlek_pano_2048 by Mark van der Meer, on Flickr


----------



## ChasingCars

snowdog said:


> It's a complete disgrace, both the A2 and the A4 are:
> 
> Flat
> Straight
> Well lit
> Through grassland/away from nature/away from major built up areas
> Clear to see ahead
> Wide ( 2x3 and 2x5 lanes respectively)
> 
> 100km/h is a plain retarded limit on those 2 roads thought up by morons who belong in a clinic for mental illness (imho ).


This is what happens if local governments are allowed to have their say in large infrastructural projects, be it roads, railways, airports or whatever. 
In fact, the biggest NIMBY's are the local governments that are 'affected' by these infra projects. Their ability to co-decide or even block these projects is killing, for it causes these projects to finish far beyons schedule and above projected cost, with no advantage for the general public at all, in fact even creating a 'less than perfect' situation like on the A2 motorway.

A project like the A2 widening is of national (or even European) interest, it should not be interfered by some local government.


----------



## Suburbanist

*Local councils want 80km/h speed limit back on A13 as they allege pollution doubled*

This is just out on the news



> Air pollution has more than doubled on the A13 near the Rotterdam Overschie area since the speed limit was raised from 80kmh to 100kmh, according to the environment service DCMR.
> 
> The speed limit was increased in July 2012 as part of the government's plan to raise the limit on 60% of the nation's motorways. Transport minister Melanie Schulz van Haegen said at the time the higher limit would have a minimal effect on pollution and noise.
> 
> DCMR measurements show pollution is 2.5 times higher in the Overschie area since the speed went up.
> 
> Rotterdam council, environmental group Milieudefensie and local action groups say the minister ignored the health of those living near the motorway when she increased the speed limit.
> 
> They are going to court on Wednesday in an attempt to have the limit returned to 80kmh, reports Trouw.


- See more at: http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archiv...ion_doubles_on_a13_l.php#sthash.88j9ESLK.dpuf


----------



## Road_UK

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^Of course!
> Let me know privately when your dates are definite!




Will do! 

Now let's get back to work before the boss starts complaining... 

A few days ago I drove over the Afsluitdijk on my way to Haarlem and cut across via Heerhugowaard (Sirhugoworth) and Alkmaar. Can we expect a motorway link between A9 at Alkmaar and A7 at Middenmeer anytime soon?


----------



## Penn's Woods

Suburbanist said:


> This is just out on the news
> 
> 
> 
> - See more at: http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archiv...ion_doubles_on_a13_l.php#sthash.88j9ESLK.dpuf


What's the science on this? The reason for the nationwide 55 mph (88 km/h) in the US from about 1973 to 87 was that it was (supposedly) the most fuel-efficient speed. But is there a correlation between fuel-efficiency and air pollution? (And I can't believe it's as cut-and-dried as "doubles when limit is raised from 80 to 100"....)


----------



## keokiracer

Suburbanist said:


> This is just out on the news


Fucking Frikken press, they can never get it right...

The increase in pollution was 2,5 times as high as expected, so not the total amount of pollution itself was 2,5x higher!

And the increase itself being 2,5 times as high doesn't have to be alarming either. If they projected a .1 increase then it's now a .25 increase. It doesn't have to be much. Exact numbers aren't given, which makes me believe that it's a very small increase that they (Milieudefensie etc.) wanted to overexaggerate to get more people on their side...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This is exactly why you shouldn't trust the media.

Pollution did not double
Emissions from traffic did not double.

So what did double? The _projected increase_ of emissions _related to traffic on A13_ at 100 km/h vs 80 km/h was 2.5 times higher than expected. The total concentrations only increased marginally. 

Typical alarmist nonsense.


----------



## Road_UK

keokiracer said:


> Fucking press, they can never get it right...
> 
> The increase in pollution was 2,5 times as high as expected, so not the total amount of pollution itself was 2,5x higher!
> 
> And the increase itself being 2,5 times as high doesn't have to be alarming either. If they projected a .1 increase then it's now a .25 increase. It doesn't have to be much. Exact numbers aren't given, which makes me believe that it's a very small increase that they (Milieudefensie etc.) wanted to overexaggerate to get more people on their side...


Language Timothy  

In Austria they've got some sort of a Co 2 metre. If the levels of pollution are high, they drop the max speed from 130 to 100.


----------



## keokiracer

Road_UK said:


> Can we expect a motorway link between A9 at Alkmaar and A7 at Middenmeer anytime soon?


Nope...

A bit south, there will be a connection upgraded, but not to motorway. It's the N243/N507, formerly known as N23. Which goes all the way east to Kampen, near Zwolle. Basically some traffic lights will become turboroundabouts, and there's a 3,5 km new alignement near Heerhugowaard. The most eastern part will feature a short 2x2 stretch, and the rest will become 2x1. So no overtaking possibilities either hno:


----------



## Road_UK

A pain in the ass, that road. Next time I'll go via Amsterdam.


----------



## keokiracer

Road_UK said:


> Language Timothy


Excuse, me:
*frikken :angel:



Road_UK said:


> In Austria they've got some sort of a Co 2 metre. If the levels of pollution are high, they drop the max speed from 130 to 100.


We used to have that near Tilburg on the A58. When air pollution would become too bad they'd lower the speed limit from 120/100 to 80 km/h. Usually the police would be very happy with that measure, because they'd always place a speedradar each direction to cash in. Since no one was keeping to the ridiculously low speed limit of 80. I think that system is gone now though, I don't think the changeable speedsigns are still there.


----------



## Road_UK

keokiracer said:


> Excuse, me:
> *frikken :angel:
> 
> We used to have that near Tilburg on the A58. When air pollution would become too bad they'd lower the speed limit from 120/100 to 80 km/h. Usually the police would be very happy with that measure, because they'd always place a speedradar each direction to cash in. Since no one was keeping to the ridiculously low speed limit of 80. I think that system is gone now though, I don't think the changeable speedsigns are still there.


That's the problem with you youngsters. I don't swear, drink and smoke, but I was really pissed off when I left my fucking cigarettes in the pub last night. 

In Austria police are out in numbers when they put the 100 sign on.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A58 at Tilburg had a Dynamax trial where they would lower the speed limit from 120 to 80 km/h to improve air quality.

Results:

_concentration:_
* NOx: -4.4 µg/m³
* PM10: -0.6 µg/m³

The limits for these pollutants are 40.0 µg/m³. The effect on particles was negligible, the effect on nitrogen concentrations was somewhat larger because traffic has a higher share out of the total concentration than with particles. It is still small (just over 10% of the limit).

A speed reduction from 120 to 80 km/h resulted in lower noise levels of 0.2 dB (0.4 dB in theory but it wasn't enforced with section control).


----------



## keokiracer

Road_UK said:


> That's the problem with you youngsters. I don't swear, drink and smoke, but I was really pissed off when I left my fucking cigarettes in the pub last night.


This joke is well-known over here 

fyi: I don't drink and smoke either. I do swear though. A lot :lol:



Thanks for the info Chris kay:


----------



## Road_UK

I do smoke and drink (casually)


----------



## Penn's Woods

Drink moderately, have never smoked in my life, swear a bit too much (particularly in the privacy of my car) and occasionally inadvertently, especially in Dutch. ;-)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Amersfoort*

A tender has been awarded to Grontmij to develop the environmental impact assessment for a temporary widening of eastbound A1 around the city of Amersfoort. This segment from the Bunschoten exit to the Hoevelaken motorway interchange will be widened from 2 to 3 eastbound lanes.

The widening is short-term, and will bridge a gap between two major projects. First, the A1 will be widened from the Eemnes motorway interchange (A27) near Hilversum to the Bunschoten exit. This segment will be widened from 2x2 to 2x4 lanes. However, the adjacent project of reconstructing the Hoevelaken interchange and widening connecting stretches of motorway to 2x4 lanes has been delayed and will not open until 2023 or so. 

Therefor, there will be a gap of 7 years with extreme congestion at the Bunschoten exit where A1 would otherwise narrow from 4 to 2 lanes while traffic volumes do not drop at this location. This stretch of A1 carries around 100.000 vehicles per day.

It is planned to open the third lane in 2015, which seems like quite an ambitious schedule considering that no procedures have been initiated yet.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*trucking*

Road Authority _Rijkswaterstaat_ conducted an annual survey among over 1000 truckers about their opinion of the motorways.

Truckers in general are very satisfied with Rijkswaterstaat (84%), traffic safety (82%), road signage (98%) road quality (87%), lighting (87%) and lane width (88%). 

However, they are far less satisfied about the quality of parking space, parking capacity and social safety along motorway rest areas. Less than 35% of the truckers are satisfied about these aspects.

Truckers are highly satisfied about traffic information and management, 91% is satisfied about the graphical traffic information (GRIPs) and 94% is satisfied about motorway traffic management (MTM). Opinions are more divergent on traffic congestion information, especially the cause of congestion, traffic information and information about alternate routes.

54% of the truckers are satisfied about the traffic flow on Dutch motorways, but this varied a lot by region. 95% are satisfied about shoulder running and 91% about truck lanes. However truckers are less satisfied about passing bans (33%), as would be expected from their point of view. Truckers opinions also diverge about the topic of truck breakdowns, there is less satisfaction about options and safety to handle breakdowns.

The survey has been held 8 times since 2002.


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> 54% of the truckers are satisfied about the traffic flow on Dutch motorways, but this varied a lot by region


Do you have the per region statistiscs, and if so, can you post them or refer me to them  ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Overijssel mobility*

Statistics show the national trend of a slower growth of mobility also occurs in Overijssel province. 12.8 billion kilometers were traveled in Overijssel in 2012. The total national mileage is 186 billion kilometers.

Mobility growth in Overijssel is slightly above the national average. This was different in 2004-2006 and 2008-2009 when mobility growth in Overijssel was substantially above the national average. 

Out of all kilometers traveled, 75% are by car (55% driver, 20% passenger) with a declining carpooling share, which is similar to national trends, and even international trends (carpooling is declining in Canada and the United States as well). 9% of travel is by bicycle and 6% by train. Only 1% of the traveled mileage is by bus, even walking has a higher share (2%). Also 1% is by moped and 6% is "other" (not specified).

When expressed in the share of the number of trips, driving is most popular at 50%, followed by cycling at 32% (above the national average) and walking at 15%. Only 1.9% of all trips in Overijssel province are by public transport. 

http://www.overijssel.nl/overijssel...erijssel/regionale/bereikbaarheid/mobiliteit/


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Noord-Holland projects*

Some major news today. Minister Schultz and regional partners have announced the widening of several motorways in Noord-Holland province, north of Amsterdam.

€ 300 million will be available for the A7-A8 corridor widening. This will entail a widening of A7 to 2x4 lanes and A8 to 2x6 lanes. This money will likely not be available prior to 2020-2025, so they will implement shoulder running as a temporary measure in 2015-2016.

Another major project is the extension of the A8 from Westzaan to the A9 motorway near Heemskerk. This will be a provincial road project, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't a 2x2 100 km/h expressway. 

Additionally, a study will be launched on how to improve A9 between Badhoevedorp and Alkmaar. This stretch recently got shoulder running nearly everywhere, but is in need of a definitive solution after 2020.


----------



## Road_UK

I'd like to see a A9 extension to the A7 at Middenmeer to make a better connection between the north and Haarlem avoiding Amsterdam.


----------



## Coccodrillo

ChrisZwolle said:


> Another major project is the extension of the A8 from Westzaan to the A9 motorway near Heemskerk. This will be a provincial road project, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't a 2x2 100 km/h expressway.


So it will not be numbered A8...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

N8 seems likely. It's not uncommon for provinces to keep the original national road number after the road has been transferred (_downloaded_ in Ontario lingo) to a provincial government. N34 and N69 are currently owned by the provinces.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A7 widening*

It's interesting to take a more in-depth look at the planned projects. I'll start with A7.

A7 is currently a motorway with 2x2 lanes and northbound shoulder running from the Zaandam motorway interchange to Purmerend. Shoulder running ends at the Purmerend-Zuid exit.

The plan is to widen A7 from 2x2 to 2x4 lanes between Zaandam and Purmerend-Zuid and then gradually reduce the number of lanes to 2x2 north of the Purmerend-Noord exit. 

Purmerend is home to the somewhat famous _Purmerend curve_. The curve looks very tight on maps, but in reality it's doable to drive 120 km/h there.

Funding of € 300 million will be available in 2023. However, southbound shoulder running is planned as a temporary relief in 2015-2016.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A8 Zaandam - Amsterdam*

The A8 widening will be combined with the A7 widening because these stretches have a lot of influence on each other's traffic flow.

A8 will be widened from 2x4 lanes to 2x6 lanes. This will be the first segment with 6 non-divided lanes each way in the Netherlands (not counting approaches to interchanges).

A8 was originally constructed as a 2x2 motorway in 1966. It was widened to 2x3 lanes in 1990 and a 4th lane was added eastbound in 1997. It is currently being widened to 2x4 lanes that will open in 2014. A 5th shoulder running (eastbound) will be added in 2016, and a final widening to 2x6 lanes in 2025. The history of A8 in a nutshell; _continuous expansion_.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A8 Westzaan - Heemskerk*

The A8 has a missing link between Westzaan (terminus) and Heemskerk (A9 interchange). This segment has been planned for decades, but never advanced beyond proposal stage.

The A8 was originally planned further south, to the A9/A22 interchange (Beverwijk motorway interchange). This was called the _golf course variant_. A golf course is present in this area, the land is leased from Rijkswaterstaat. However, it was found that the _Heemskerk variant_ would be better, a route slightly further north.

A8 will not be constructed as a motorway, but as a provincial expressway (2x2, grade separated). The speed limit remains unknown, earlier proposals called for 80 km/h, but this seems nonsense considering the rural terrain and relatively few interchanges. Construction cost is estimated at € 150 million.

It will not be constructed with a higher capacity than 2x2 lanes, because the existing A8 through Zaandam cannot be effectively widened. A8 also has a drawbridge and the Zaandam motorway interchange at A7 has insufficient capacity.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A10 Coen Tunnel*

In conjunction with the A7-A8 widening, existing but unused pavement in the new Coen Tunnel will also be used to increase capacity.

The old Coen Tunnel, opened in 1966, had 2x2 lanes. The new Coen Tunnel has 2+3 lanes and opened to traffic in 2013. The old tunnel is being renovated and full capacity will be available in 2014. 

By 2014, the tunnel layout will be 1+2+2+3 lanes (west to east), with a maximum of 5 lanes in the peak direction and 3 in the anti-peak direction.

However, the tunnel has space and pavement for a layout of 2+2+2+4 lanes, for a total of 6 lanes in the peak direction and 4 in the anti-peak direction. 

Originally the plan was to utilize this capacity after 2014, but this additional capacity is not necessary until after 2020, so this is postponed to coincide with the A7-A8 widening projects. 

It is an incredible improvement. Until 2014, there are only 2 inbound lanes. By 2025, there will be 6 inbound lanes in the morning.

Photo of the easternmost tube with 3 lanes, but space for 4 lanes.


----------



## Reivajar

Which is the difference between the expressway and the motorway standards in the Netherlands? Why they have decided to build it as expressways instead of as motorway?

And about the new tubes for the Coen Tunnel, how's the section of the 1-lane tube? And by now, this free space in the 3-lanes tube will be used as shoulder?

I understand that the old tubes have not emergency shoulder, but the new ones are being build without emergency shoulders?


----------



## keokiracer

Reivajar said:


> Which is the difference between the expressway and the motorway standards in the Netherlands?


The difference is in alignement and an expressway does not need a shoulder. 



Reivajar said:


> Why they have decided to build it as expressways instead of as motorway?


A highway would draw too much traffic on the road. The existing part of the A8 until the Zaandam interchange wouldn't be able to handle that extra traffic. The A8 is practically impossible to widen, and if you do it, the costs would be very high. Therefor an 'autoweg'-solution has been chosen.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

keokiracer said:


> alignement


English alignment and Dutch alignement do not mean the same. Alignment could be translated as "tracé". Dutch alignement is the physical design of the road (horizontal & vertical curvature).


----------



## Suburbanist

I've got a question about that curve in Prmerand. 

It seems they have an old alignment there: http://goo.gl/maps/EGe4G

Why this weird curve was built then?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That was the old road. A7 north of Purmerend was gradually expanded from a two-lane road to a motorway. Originally, A7 was planned to extend to A10 near S116, and the route between Purmerend and Zaandam was originally constructed as provincial road S14. It opened in 1970 as a motorway, but didn't become a _rijksweg_ until the major road transfer year of 1993.

The curve was built to accomodate a motorway-to-motorway interchange.








1983 map.


----------



## Reivajar

keokiracer said:


> The difference is in alignement and an expressway does not need a shoulder.
> 
> 
> A highway would draw too much traffic on the road. The existing part of the A8 until the Zaandam interchange wouldn't be able to handle that extra traffic. The A8 is practically impossible to widen, and if you do it, the costs would be very high. Therefor an 'autoweg'-solution has been chosen.


Well, I don't know how exactly it works in the Netherlands, and probably an expressway could accommodate a bit less traffic than an equivalent motorway. However, I think that it is kind of false to think that people won't take it just for being an expressway instead of a motorway. 

I don't know why the A8 could assume the increase of traffic of an expressway but won't be able to assume the traffic of a motorway. If the road is fine, and it is empty people will use it as shortcut.


----------



## keokiracer

Reivajar said:


> Well, I don't know how exactly it works in the Netherlands, and probably an expressway could accommodate a bit less traffic than an equivalent motorway. However, I think that it is kind of false to think that people won't take it just for being an expressway instead of a motorway.


I don't know whether the interchange with A9 will be fluent or not. Motorway would be certainly fluent, but that's not always the case with expressways. That will cost some extra time. And I don't know what the spee dlimit is going to be. People want to drive fast, or at least feel like they're going somewhere fast. With the other route (A9) being 130-120 km/h (100 km/h when shoulder running implemented on about half of the stretch) a speed limit of 100 would be not very inviting, certainly not when it's 80 km/h.



Reivajar said:


> I don't know why the A8 could assume the increase of traffic of an expressway but won't be able to assume the traffic of a motorway.


Well, apparently the points I made (and probably some others that I'm missing) above cause enough people to take the A9-route to keep it under the limit of what the A8 can handle.



Reivajar said:


> If the road is fine, and it is empty people will use it as shortcut.


Only if it takes less time than the original route


----------



## Reivajar

^^ Sure... hahaha. I mean, I agree with the reasons you explain. But what I am not sure is about there would be a huge difference between one option and the other one, enough for saying: with a motorway A8 will be saturated, with an expressway the A8 will resist it.  

Anyway, I have no idea how people commute in North Holland, but I guess that most of people interested in the enlargement of the A8 to the A9 will take that new stretch if it is an expressway or an motorway.


----------



## McBeans

Hi Chris,

Seeing the maps around Amsterdam, how is the usage of the westrandweg helping to reduce congestion in the Amsterdam area? Is it functioning as planned? Or will we see full effects only after the 1st Coen tunnel has been re-opened end next year.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are no traffic counts available yet. People report it's not very busy, but of course it wasn't built to become congested in the first year of operation. And we need to wait for the Coen Tunnel to be in full operation.


----------



## Suburbanist

It will become an important link during the relocation works in Badhoevedorp


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't think so. A5 runs north-south, the A9 construction is east-west. Furthermore, you cannot get from A5 south to A4 north near Schiphol, and you cannot get from A10 north to A5 south in Amsterdam.

A5 was designed as a bypass of Amsterdam, and a fast route to the suburban employment south of Amsterdam. While A5 does not give direct access to Schiphol Airport, it does give access to all employment near it, via the Hoofddorp exit. Hoofddorp is perhaps the most prominent example of an "edge city" in the Netherlands. While it is a suburb, it's job-population ratio is one of the highest in the country (even when you exclude Schiphol Airport, Haarlemmermeer municipality has more jobs per inhabitant than Amsterdam).


----------



## Gereke

> and you cannot get from A10 north to A5 south in Amsterdam.


Not true. Or will this be the case when all the Coen Tunnel tubes are opened for traffic?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I meant A10 north*bound*. You cannot enter A5 when driving northbound on A10 from De Nieuwe Meer motorway interchange towards the Coenplein interchange.

Roadgeek lingo


----------



## keokiracer

Reivajar said:


> ^^ Well, usually motorways in tunnel have lower speed limits as default, even with hard shoulders.


Wijkertunnel and Vlaketunnel both have hard shoulders and therefor a normal 130 km/h speed limit.
Afaik only the newer tunnels (with shoulders) have a lower speed limit, which seems a bit strange...


----------



## Matje

A4 near Schiphol will be 2x7, well 2+5+5+2 for a stretch but i agree i like that stretch allot as well, A10 south aswell btw, 2 months ago i flew over the A4 heading and comming back from vacation, looks realy impressive, so huge that it becomes


----------



## Reivajar

keokiracer said:


> Wijkertunnel and Vlaketunnel both have hard shoulders and therefor a normal 130 km/h speed limit.
> Afaik only the newer tunnels (with shoulders) have a lower speed limit, which seems a bit strange...


Well, I guess it is just a a measure for "increase" security, as tunnels are considered more dangerous in case of accident.

Most of the tunnels I can remember have usually a lower speed limit than the generic limit on the rest of the road. But that's true that it depends on the particular case. Most of times 

Anyway, many times lower speed limits without obvious reasons are finally quite arbitrary.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 HOV lane*

Today it's exactly 20 years ago the first HOV lane opened in the Netherlands. This carpool reversible lane was constructed in the median of A1 between the Diemen interchange (A9) and the Muiderberg interchange (A6). Construction lasted 3 years and cost 62 million guilders. It opened on 27 October 1993.

The carpool lane was in operation for less than a year. Former transportation minister Westerterp was a vocal opponent of the carpool lane and stated he would drive in the lane alone and get a test trial. It worked and the carpool restrictions were scrapped in august 1994. 

The reversible lane was widened to two lanes in 2011. It will be replaced by a new alignment with 5+2+5 lanes in the next couple of years.


----------



## Suburbanist

recent video of A2 project in Maastricht (note: "Luik" is Liège in Dutch)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A severe windstorm is affecting the Netherlands today. One station at Vlieland Island recorded sustained 12 Beaufort winds, which is hurricane-force. Even inland stations recorded 9 or 10 Beaufort, which is unusual. The highest gusts were over 150 km/h.

This led to chaos on the roads and the railways. Train services have been extensively cancelled and the fire department had thousands of calls in the last few hours. Many trucks were turned over by high winds, especially on north-south motorways, resulting in many bridge and road closures. Parts of the facade of towers across A12 in The Hague plunged down on the motorway, resulting in a closure.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

http://nos.nl/video/567987-gekantelde-vrachtwagen-op-a27.html

This Polish trucker was not happy today. His entire combination got blown over at the A27 motorway. As you can see in the video, winds were very strong, road signage was also torn apart.


http://nos.nl/video/568018-boom-valt-op-rij-autos.html

This video shows a large tree collapsing onto parked cars in Purmerend.


http://nos.nl/video/568090-omvallende-boom-in-zaandam.html

This is a stupid move, a guy tried to save is his car but the tree collapsed onto him and his car in Zaandam.

As you can see with most downed trees is that they fall over with their entire root system, they don't just snap off. This is because of the high ground water table in the Netherlands. Most trees don't grow their roots very deep.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N62, Sloeweg, Zeeland*

The tender procedure for the widening of the N62 in Zeeland province has started. The contract will be awarded in early 2014 and full-scale construction will begin in April/May 2014. Preparatory works already begin next month to relocate utilities.

N62 will be widened from 2 to 4 lanes and provide full 4-lane access to the Westerschelde Tunnel. Separate projects south of the tunnel will also widen the N62 to 2x2 lanes, most notably the Sluiskil Tunnel, a twin-tube bored tunnel under the Gent - Terneuzen Canal. Breakthrough of the second tube is expected next month.


----------



## keokiracer

*N388 closed due to massive tree-falling*

Around 30 trees were blown over alongside the N388 due to the heavy winds earlier today. The road will be closed for through traffic for an uncertain amount of time. Cyclists will be able to use the road (the cyclepath is blocked, but due to car traffic not being allowed they can drive on the road itself), also emergency vehicles and locals will be able to use the road.








Source

Location on Google Maps


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Transportation and environment minister Melanie Schultz went on a ride-along with truckers and attended truck inspections along several motorways with the police and ILT (Inspection for Living environment and Transportation). Statistics show 1 in 10 foreign truckers are exceeding cabotage limits, thereby competing unfairly with domestic trucking.

Schultz seem more attracted to these problems than her predecessors. She already vetoed a proposal to loosen cabotage regulations, which would have allowed more foreign truckers to participate in domestic trucking at wages Dutch truckers can't live off.


----------



## Nexis




----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N69 Valkenswaard*

Decades of talks have finally resulted in a final route of the N69 in Noord-Brabant province. Regional partners and the province have agreed on the route of N69 to relieve Valkenswaard of through traffic, which is one of the worst non-motorway bottlenecks of the Netherlands. Construction will commence in 2015, project cost is € 140 million. 










N69 was actually planned as a motorway in the 1970s. The De Hogt motorway interchange (A2/A67) was originally built with a southward extension in mind, but this option was scrapped because it would affect the Dommel River area too much. The interchange was rebuilt between 2006-2010 as part of the Eindhoven bypass widening. 

The current plan is called the "West Parallel", where N69 will turn northwest and connect with A67 near Veldhoven. A new interchange with A67 will be constructed. 

Belgian N74, which is a motorway-grade 120 km/h road, dead-ends at the Dutch border, and traffic has to funnel down on a two-lane road through the center of Valkenswaard with near-constant congestion. Approximately 20.000 vehicles per day go through Valkenwaard. There is substantial commuting from Belgium to Eindhoven due to lower housing prices in Belgium and less regulation.


----------



## Jon5738

Those trees are planted too close to the road. Does not need to be a hurricane to make it happen.


----------



## Spookvlieger

Those are probably close to 100 years old oak trees and have been planted historically on main roads in The Low countries, many of wich now downgraded in The Netherlands because they have been bypassed by new roads. In Flanders the trees on busy routes have all been long gone due to overbuilding along those routes or widening of the old main routes yet some less busy roads remain such as the picture above.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It has little to do with the road. The ground water table in the Netherlands is very high, so the trees don't grow their roots very deep. The soil is so soft that trees fall over while taking a huge amount of soil with them, like this:


----------



## Jon5738

ChrisZwolle said:


> It has little to do with the road. The ground water table in the Netherlands is very high, so the trees don't grow their roots very deep. The soil is so soft that trees fall over while taking a huge amount of soil with them, like this:


Actually, it has a lot to do with the road. The roads to not permit the roots to grow under them, so the trees do not have any support from the area which the road occupies. Hence, it will move back and forth when the wind comes in a direction that affect the sideways movement until the entire tree falls down.

It has primarily to do with old trees and roads yes, but it is very common practice to still plant the trees too close to the roads or not give them enough root space. The primary root space of a tree is usually in the top ten cm and quite often in the top three, so the water table issue is really not that significant. The roots that penetrate deeper than ten cm is usually not for anchoring anyway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*mobility balance, 2013*

The KIM institute has published its mobility balance for 2013.

Some key findings;

* delays grew 55% between 2000 and 2008 but have since returned to 2000 levels.
* reduction of traffic congestion is nearly entirely attributed to road widenings, traffic levels are still growing.
* traffic congestion in the northern part of the Randstad was twice as high as the southern part of the Randstad prior to 2010. This area was prioritized and congestion dropped significantly more in the northern than southern part.
* expected annual traffic growth until 2017 is +1.5%
* growth of per capita driving is topping out, but not declining
* carpooling is declining, solo driving is up. Carpooling declined by 12% since 2005.
* solo driving is up by 11% since 2000, but less since 2008.
* growth of driving amongst young adults has declined, but car ownership did not. Reduction of driving among young adults is not expected in the future, current declines are due to the recession and lower job participation, not a long-term reduction.
* senior citizens are driving more. 
* the rise of internet and social media does not result in less driving.
* train passenger kilometers grew 19% between 2000 and 2012. Almost none of this is due to a modal shift, effects are chiefly a larger population and higher OV-studentenkaart usage (free student travel accounts for 25% of public transport usage).
* cycling kilometrage increased by 14% between 2000 and 2012. Growth is nearly entirely attributed to the electric bicycle, regular cycling remained unchanged.
* freight transport is declining due to economic recession, 15% lower than pre-recession levels.
* 1/10th of domestic CO2 emissions is due to car traffic, emissions per car are declining, but are offset by higher car usage.
* the economic cost of congestion and accidents in 2012 was circa € 20 billion. Congestion cost in 2012 was down 14% compared to 2011.


----------



## da_scotty

ChrisZwolle said:


>


Is there anything known about the dimensions or interchanges (freeflow?)?
What measures will be taken too discourage traffic from using the old road (which is more direct)?


----------



## keokiracer

da_scotty said:


> Is there anything known about the dimensions or interchanges (freeflow?)?


It's freeflow with 2 exits. Only at Veldhoven there will be intersections. Well, probably, since that is part of a different project.
Check here for 'pictures' of the future alignement.


----------



## Wilhem275

I still think it would be much better to draw it straight into A2/N2 at Knoopunkt De Hoog, may it cost some works on the river.

I hate it when roads are connected with corners... that's a perfect way to make people think the old straight road is better.


----------



## Langeveldt

So my girlfriend lives in Leeuwarden, Holland of all places. I spend my time between South Africa and England and Holland is new to me.

I took a car over and have been driving a lot throughout Holland, and first impressions say to me it is the most pleasurable place to drive. I particularly love how each lane gets their own traffic light at an intersection. Signs are very good and drivers the most patient I have encountered. 

I was first concerned about all the cyclists and that they would be a hazard like they are in the UK, but they seamlessly fit in with everything else, so long as you know when and where to give way, I find it strange for example having to slam the brakes on as I exit a circle. All in all an absolute pleasure


----------



## MrAronymous

Langeveldt said:


> Leeuwarden, Holland


Oh no you didn't :lol:


----------



## Langeveldt

MrAronymous said:


> Oh no you didn't :lol:


Sorry, Ljouwert, Fryslan

And there was me thinking I would, as an Afrikaans speaker, be able to understand people there


----------



## MrAronymous

Langeveldt said:


> Sorry, Ljouwert, Fryslan
> 
> And there was me thinking I would, as an Afrikaans speaker, be able to understand people there.


I forgive you.
Did you actually speak Afrikaans to see if we'd understand?




Langeveldt said:


> I find it strange for example having to slam the brakes on as I exit a circle.


That's just how most roundabouts work in our built-up areas. It's pretty much ingrained in our brains to give way at the exits.


----------



## snowdog

MrAronymous said:


> That's just how most roundabouts work in our built-up areas. It's pretty much ingrained in our brains to give way at the exits.


This differs per city.

In my town, Capelle ad IJssel, cyclists always have to yield to cars on roundabouts ( bar one exception where the cyclists aren't separated, but when there is a separate cycle path, cars do not have to wait for them at roundabouts...).
In Rotterdam, 300 meters from here, cars have to always yield to cyclists on roundabouts.

Always watch the signs/road markings on every roundabout!


----------



## Langeveldt

MrAronymous said:


> I forgive you.
> Did you actually speak Afrikaans to see if we'd understand?


I speak Afrikaans and am generally understood. I understand most Dutch if spoken fairly slowly and can understand it all when written down. The problem comes with the use of "de" and "het" which is very confusing, Afrikaans only has one word for "the"..

Once when ordering a water in Afrikaans I recieved a small glass of vodka. 

Fresian on the other hand. I didn't even know about it before I went there.


----------



## Langeveldt

snowdog said:


> Always watch the signs/road markings on every roundabout!


So transfixed am I on the triangles in the road that I sometimes miss other things. One problem that as an outsider I have with driving there. Otherwise, it's superb


----------



## keokiracer

snowdog said:


> In my town, Capelle ad IJssel, cyclists always have to yield to cars on roundabouts ( bar one exception where the cyclists aren't separated, but when there is a separate cycle path, cars do not have to wait for them at roundabouts...).


Congrats on living in like the only place where cyclists don't have priority on inner-city roundabouts :lol:


----------



## keokiracer

Langeveldt said:


> So transfixed am I on the triangles in the road that I sometimes miss other things. One problem that as an outsider I have with driving there. Otherwise, it's superb


Try searching for these first, the sign-version of the 'sharkteeth'. The signs are easier to spot from a distance giving you the time you need to fucos on the actual road


----------



## Langeveldt

keokiracer said:


> Try searching for these first, the sign-version of the 'sharkteeth'. The signs are easier to spot from a distance giving you the time you need to fucos on the actual road


Ahah, are these everywhere that there are shark teeth? I don't want to be missing any shark teeth because of the lack of a yield sign..


----------



## keokiracer

They are not everywhere afaik, but they are in like 99% of places with sharkteeth.


----------



## aswnl

Langeveldt said:


> I speak Afrikaans and am generally understood. I understand most Dutch if spoken fairly slowly and can understand it all when written down. The problem comes with the use of "de" and "het" which is very confusing, Afrikaans only has one word for "the"..
> 
> Once when ordering a water in Afrikaans I recieved a small glass of vodka.
> 
> Fresian on the other hand. I didn't even know about it before I went there.


Having the internet nowadays I have become quite interested in music with Afrikaanse lyrics. For Dutch it is able to understand Afrikaans, however there are some false friends. I.e. the word 'net' which means 'alleen' in Dutch, while it sounds as 'niet'. In Dutch the word 'net' means 'almost'. (And the Frisian word 'net' really means 'niet').

_Wees welkom_ 


If you can understand Dutch, you can read more about Dutch roads on:
* wegenforum.nl
* wegenwiki.nl
* autosnelwegen.nl


----------



## snowdog

keokiracer said:


> Congrats on living in like the only place where cyclists don't have priority on inner-city roundabouts :lol:


Only one ? Surely there are more places that aren't anti car :lol: ?

Nah but this is the only one afaik in Capelle where cyclists have the right of way:
http://goo.gl/maps/fGvM8

Other ones are either like this:
http://goo.gl/maps/jrb69
or this:
http://goo.gl/maps/HfPnq


----------



## radamfi

The David Hembrow cycling blog has a page showing every roundabout in Assen. Cars don't give way to bikes on roundabouts as they don't have the standard Dutch roundabout there:

http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2011/09/every-roundabout-in-assen.html

Assen, is not anti-bike, though, and has very high cycle use.


----------



## radamfi

On my recent holiday to NL I noticed signs telling you to do your social media at a car park. Do people really need to be told?


----------



## Road_UK

radamfi said:


> On my recent holiday to NL I noticed signs telling you to do your social media at a car park. Do people really need to be told?


Oh yes!
Sign you'll find all over the Netherlands particularly on motorways:


----------



## radamfi

^^Yes, I saw that everywhere, as well as text on variable message signs.


----------



## Road_UK

People are stupid, and accidents do happen, so unfortunately these signs are necessary.


----------



## Langeveldt

aswnl said:


> (And the Frisian word 'net' really means 'niet').



Maybe in Afrikaans is Miskien, in Fresian I think it is Mischien, and in Dutch apparently something totally different.


----------



## MrAronymous

Langeveldt said:


> Maybe in Afrikaans is Miskien, in Fresian I think it is Mischien, and in Dutch apparently something totally different.


Misschien. 



radamfi said:


> ^^Yes, I saw that everywhere, as well as text on variable message signs.


Ahh, the "Daar kun je mee thuiskomen" campaigns for road safety. We also have them for "I love driving on the right" and "I want to see you"(bicycle lights campaign).


----------



## Wilhem275

Very similar, in concept and traffic volumes, to the Bergisch Gladbach roundabout:










(my picture, two months ago)

It too has a road running underground!


----------



## MrAronymous

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's a low volume railroad, also known as the Pon Line, which serves car importer Pon. There are no regular passenger services, so it will likely be a few trains per week or so. It's interesting though, as far as I am aware this is the first roundabout in the Netherlands with a railroad crossing.


I remember something about a tram track through a roundabout in Amsterdam where traffic had to give priority and it's officially classified as 'railroad crossing'.


----------



## Road_UK

MrAronymous said:


> I remember something about a tram track through a roundabout in Amsterdam where traffic had to give priority and it's officially classified as 'railroad crossing'.


Yes, I remember that. I'm trying to think... 


I know - it's on the junction of Weteringschans and Vijzelstraat. I don't if it's still there, I haven't been there for years, and they've also been building that new tunnel for the metro.


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> A major local project is the widening of the "Amstellaan" in the city of Deventer. Amstellaan is part of the bypass for through traffic in Deventer. It was a bottleneck, because the adjacent segments had 2x2 lanes.
> 
> It has improved substantially with the construction of two bicycle tunnels, eliminating all bicycle traffic across the intersection. *Also, free right turns have been constructed at all right turns, which is quite unusual in the Netherlands these days.*


And way under used, there should be free right turns on any bigger intersections where there is the space, it will save traffic a lot of time!


----------



## Des

snowdog said:


> And way under used, there should be free right turns on any bigger intersections where there is the space, it will save traffic a lot of time!


Problem is this requires pedestrian and cycling crossings to go elsewhere. But I do agree it would be very useful to ease congestion. 

One of the worst intersections in Amsterdam in my opinion is this one: 

https://www.google.nl/maps/preview#!data=!1m4!1m3!1d2459!2d4.858468!3d52.3496448

Its dangerous especially for cyclists and pedestrians, congested on a daily basis and a mix of trams, buses, cars, scooters, cyclists and pedestrians without traffic lights. 

They recently made the cycling lanes wider and made a turn lane for those cyclists continuing along the Amstelveenseweg south-bound which made it a little less dangerous but its still far from ok.

Best would be to design a new solution from scratch, preferably a normal intersection with the Bernard Kochstraat changed to one-way street (south-bound) and connecting to the East bound Cornelis Krusemanstraat only. 

Quick fixes to the current situation could include making the Bernard Kochstraat a one-way street for cars (south-bound only) and creating a turbo-roundabout by letting traffic from the Cornelis Krusemanstraat westbound to Amstelveenseweg southbound use the tram tracks for a few meters. This should reduce the cues on the Krusemanstraat caused by traffic turning right towards the Zeilstraat. Also they should move the tram and bus stop 16/24 50 meters south wards to traffic approaching the roundabout has a clearer view of traffic coming from the left.


----------



## jsfox

MrAronymous said:


> I remember something about a tram track through a roundabout in Amsterdam where traffic had to give priority and it's officially classified as 'railroad crossing'.


This (?):
https://www.google.com/maps?q=52.374666,4.872753&hl=en&num=1&t=h&z=18

It has red lights to stop motor and bicycle traffic when the tram comes through.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

New in the Netherlands: _balises_

Flevoland implements them


----------



## Wilhem275

What are they?

The only balises I know in the Netherlands are those 











EDIT: sorry, the image didn't load so I didn't understand what we were talking about


----------



## Reivajar

ChrisZwolle said:


> New in the Netherlands: _balises_
> 
> Flevoland implements them


French style? LOL

Hmmm, weren't they installed on Dutch roads? I don't remember...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A6/A7 Joure Interchange*

The final design of the Joure motorway interchange. Construction of 1 km of new alignment, a direct connector interchange and a new exit to Joure cost € 76 million.


----------



## keokiracer

Reivajar said:


> Hmmm, weren't they installed on Dutch roads? I don't remember...


We have these for corners (yellow part is optional)









and these for straight areas in NL (they went a little too far here, I think they had some extra... )


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A28 Exit 33 Assen has been renamed to Assen-West. Many exits are renamed with the new signage system. Many exit names had not been updated since the motorway was first constructed. In this case, the city of Assen expanded west of the motorway, making the name Assen-West more appropriate. There are also Assen-Zuid (south) and Assen-Noord (north)


WP_000100 by fred.7233, on Flickr


----------



## MrAronymous

ChrisZwolle said:


> New in the Netherlands: _balises_
> 
> Flevoland implements them


Do these have an advantage compared to the normal arrows?


jsfox said:


> This (?):
> https://www.google.com/maps?q=52.374666,4.872753&hl=en&num=1&t=h&z=18
> 
> It has red lights to stop motor and bicycle traffic when the tram comes through.


Yeah I think that's the one.


----------



## Reivajar

ChrisZwolle said:


> A28 Exit 33 Assen has been renamed to Assen-West. Many exits are renamed with the new signage system. Many exit names had not been updated since the motorway was first constructed. In this case, the city of Assen expanded west of the motorway, making the name Assen-West more appropriate. There are also Assen-Zuid (south) and Assen-Noord (north)
> 
> 
> WP_000100 by fred.7233, on Flickr


Which is the new signage system? Those diagrams?


----------



## keokiracer

Go ahead and compare:

Old








New








(the blue block on the bottom right becomes another right exit arrow when shoulder running is implemented)


----------



## Reivajar

Hmmm, they have been "Germanised".

Hmmmm, not sure if I prefer the new design. I have the impression they lose lot of space in the bottom part just for the arrows diagrams and the road number box...

Maybe for complex exit and exchange layouts it can be useful, but in the 95% of cases it is not necessary that space for arrows...

Thanks!


----------



## jsfox

keokiracer said:


>


Maybe kind of a dumb question, but why is the cross brace so massive? Looks like it could have a roll-up gate in it.


----------



## Redouane

Hmm, I prefer the signage system..


----------



## da_scotty

jsfox said:


> Maybe kind of a dumb question, but why is the cross brace so massive? Looks like it could have a roll-up gate in it.


It was a test, this cross brace is made of wood!


----------



## Reivajar

keokiracer said:


> Go ahead and compare:
> 
> Old
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (the blue block on the bottom right becomes another right exit arrow when shoulder running is implemented)


Was it the old one?


----------



## keokiracer

Reivajar said:


> Was it the old one?



To be precise, it was here (at 900 meters before beginning exit lane)

https://maps.google.nl/?ll=52.59727...d=Bl_hHE6BAtBzsXNnSkYNkg&cbp=12,23.32,,0,7.25

There's no sign for traffic going straight for streetview, but you can assume it would've looked like the straight sign you posted from 900 meters ahead


----------



## Reivajar

^^ Haha. Thanks.

I think I prefer the older version though.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*North East Corridor, Eindhoven / Veghel / Helmond*

The construction of the "Noordoostcorridor", or Northeast Corridor is coming closer.

The Northeast Corridor entails the construction of a 2x2 N279 expressway from A50 at Veghel to A67 south of Helmond. Additionally, there will be a 2x2 expressway constructed as an extension of A58 from Eindhoven to north of Helmond. 

Construction will likely begin in 2017. Although it is a provincial road project, it is co-funded by the national government.

Possible plans:

schets Noordoostcorridor by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## da_scotty

Grade Separated and 100km/h? Are miracles possible?


----------



## keokiracer

What's the situation at the southern connection with the A67 going to be like? I see there's a roundabout on the map, but there was a roundabout (the so-called 'Ei van Ommel') there and it was demolished a couple years ago and replaced with traffic lights.


----------



## Attus

Yesterday I drove from Germany to Amsterdam via Venlo-Eindhoven, and return the same way. It was the first time in my life I drove a car in the Netherlands (not counting the short section from Aachen to Maastricht). 
The network is impressive but traffic density, too, is impressive. Even Saturday afternoon. 
Driving in 2×5 lane motorway is quite frightening if you are not used to it. 

Signage is clear and nice. What I didn't like: 
- No distance marker before intersections. I have no information about how much time (road length) I have to change to the lane I need. 
- In some section the motorway has 4 tracks, especially at city bypasses. Before such sections the sign is confusing: A2 is left and A2 is right as well (I tried to find a picture but Google Streetview seems to be outdated). If you know you have to follow A2, you'll have problems here. 

I decided I'll take P+R instead of driving in Amsterdam downtown. I missed the first exit to a P+R. I caught another parking lot but it was full ("vol" means full in Dutch, right?). The third one, too, was full. I found some free place in Zeeburg P+R but lost almost one hour by searching for a P+R that has free places. And all of that in Saturday afternoon. 

However driving in NL is much more relaxed than in Germany where you may expect someone driving at 230 km/h any time.


----------



## Suburbanist

Attus said:


> - No distance marker before intersections. I have no information about how much time (road length) I have to change to the lane I need.


That distance is standardized in the Netherlands.



> - In some section the motorway has 4 tracks, especially at city bypasses. Before such sections the sign is confusing: A2 is left and A2 is right as well (I tried to find a picture but Google Streetview seems to be outdated). If you know you have to follow A2, you'll have problems here.


Are you sure you are not mixing the situation in Eindhoven where the central through lanes are A2 and the local access lanes are N2?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Utrecht has a local-express setup as well. It doesn't matter if you pick the local lanes if you want to go to Amsterdam, it eventually rejoins A2 mainline.


----------



## Road_UK

So does Rotterdam.


----------



## keokiracer

And so do 's Hertogenbosch and Eindhoven.


----------



## snowdog

Attus said:


> Yesterday I drove from Germany to Amsterdam via Venlo-Eindhoven, and return the same way. It was the first time in my life I drove a car in the Netherlands (not counting the short section from Aachen to Maastricht).
> The network is impressive but traffic density, too, is impressive. Even Saturday afternoon.
> Driving in 2×5 lane motorway is quite frightening if you are not used to it.
> 
> Signage is clear and nice. What I didn't like:
> - No distance marker before intersections. I have no information about how much time (road length) I have to change to the lane I need.
> - In some section the motorway has 4 tracks, especially at city bypasses. Before such sections the sign is confusing: A2 is left and A2 is right as well (I tried to find a picture but Google Streetview seems to be outdated). If you know you have to follow A2, you'll have problems here.
> 
> I decided I'll take P+R instead of driving in Amsterdam downtown. I missed the first exit to a P+R. I caught another parking lot but it was full ("vol" means full in Dutch, right?). The third one, too, was full. I found some free place in Zeeburg P+R but lost almost one hour by searching for a P+R that has free places. And all of that in Saturday afternoon.
> 
> However driving in NL is much more relaxed than in Germany where you may expect someone driving at 230 km/h any time.


I personally disagree, driving in such annoying heavy traffic and having to constantly watch your speedo is not relaxing, cruising on a calm autobahn at 180km/h with people overtaking you at high speed is much more relaxing.
Motorway driving should not mean ''check your speedo'' but ''look ahead as far as possible and check mirrors often''. Unfortunately only the Germans agree with me on that . Paying attention to traffic is easier than paying attention to the speedo.

And what do you mean by no distance markers ? Every exit is shown way in advance afaik ? eg. ''1200m, 600m, 300m, now'' 
If there is no distance, it means you can change lanes now ( and you can as usual, look ahead to see how long you potentially have to change lanes), which really isn't that hard, check mirror, find gap, check blind spot, indicate and move.

I actually find most Dutch merge/weave way too early and don't use the available space to get to speed or keep their average speed higher. Encouraged by the bad habit of people who ''make space'' for people to join by moving to the left ( but holding up people on the left lane that way). Nobody understands to make enough speed and use the whole lane when joining, they join as soon as the ''block markings'' start with a rubbish speed like 70-80 km/h, rather than first getting up to speed before joining .


----------



## Road_UK

You still got the wrong impression of Germany.


----------



## snowdog

Road_UK said:


> You still got the wrong impression of Germany.


Yeah sure...

I've been in Poland recently and could keep driving 180 km/h on cruise control at least half the way.

I prefer driving at night when most people are asleep and I get the road for myself. Hengelo>Swiecko took me 4 hours, with a 20 minute break in at Zweidorfer Holz ( where I can fuel up LPG).
When I get a long straight with nobody around I see no point in driving slow, I'll floor it and drive as fast as I can.

Being able to drive as you want is a godsend, in Holland on many motorways the same applies really at night, I see no point for example on the A13 near Delft, the A12 between Zoetermeer and Utrecht, or the A2 between A'dam and Utrecht why there is a speed limit at all, they are straight, flat, wide ( room for errors) and you can see kilometres away. During the day you have annoying traffic, but at night, you are doing 100/120/130 km/h or so for god knows who.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nijmegen has recently introduced S-numbers. S-numbers are "Stadsroutes" or city routes. Its intent is to ease navigation in the largest cities because there are typically no N-roads signed within these cities. They are municipal projects, and S-numbers are reused per city. Some see them as useful, others as an unnecessary gimmick. The main critique is that some cities have way too many S-numbers (Rotterdam has about 30 of them).


DSC_0097.jpg by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr


Also, the new Waal River Bridge will open in a week (S100).

DSC_0022.jpg by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr


----------



## snowdog

I personally never saw the point in S routes, unnecessary clutter on signs. Are there people who actually drive following an S route ?


----------



## keokiracer

It can come in handy in some cases, like the route from A29 to A13 in Rotterdam. It would be very handy if that had one S-route.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*NMCA*

The national market and capacity analysis (NMCA) is updated biennially, and it just got its latest update based on the most current data about economic growth, spatial developments, demographics and socio-economic developments.

They produce two scenarios, the low growth scenario called "Regional Communities" (RC) and the high growth scenario called "Global Economy" (GE). They keep in mind the current pipeline of planned projects until the horizon year (2028).

This map shows capacity problems in the "RC" (low growth) scenario until 2028.









This map shows capacity problems in the "GE" (high growth) scenario until 2028.


----------



## da_scotty

>



Horrible these signs, cluttered and the lot....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*MIRT*

MIRT studies are launched for several road projects that will take place after 2020-2025. MIRT is a programme where major projects are financed and planned. 

* A2 Deil - Den Bosch
* A6 Almere - Lelystad
* A15 Papendrecht - Gorinchem

Multimodal freight corridor studies, which include A15, A58 & A67 (all east-west routes).

These MIRT studies are added the the existing list of MIRT studies, which include most, if not all current bottlenecks. Especially the recognition of the A15 Papendrecht - Gorinchem corridor is important, it was one of the last heavily saturated motorways with no plans. It carries up to 90 000 vehicles per day on 2x2 lanes.


----------



## Road_UK

da_scotty said:


> Horrible these signs, cluttered and the lot....


I agree. They haven't improved things at all with these new signs. Them arrows alone are well ugly.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Infrastructure fund*

I've delved into the old budget plans and compared the infrastructure fund through the last 22 years. The infrastructure fund was created in 1993. It encompasses spending on roads, rail, local public transport and waterways (basically all ground transportation). 

As you can see, spending went up significantly after 2006, but has since decreased. The projected 2014 infrastructure fund is € 6.8 billion, so slightly better than 2013. 

The numbers are not adjusted for inflation. If the fund would have been adjusted for inflation every year, it should be around € 7.7 billion annually. The projected funds through 2020 are lower than that, so we actually are spending less on infrastructure the coming years than we did in the 1990s or late 2000s.










The fund doesn't tell us how the money was spent. There has been a focus of spending from public transport to roads. Back in the 1990s there were many large rail projects with the aim of reducing road congestion, achieving nothing of the kind (congestion actually went out of control between 1990 and 2000s). The recent spending on roads has made a significant reduction of congestion possible, while traffic keeps inching up, despite the recession.


----------



## Wilhem275

ChrisZwolle said:


> This video shows what problems a short merging lane can cause on a busy motorway.


That thing is not so short... but those people really can't drive.


----------



## lafreak84

snowdog said:


> Bad driving from both the first 2 cars. Om my driving test I was clearly instructed to start looking for a gap ( and traffic intensity) the moment the motorway is visible and adjust my speed accordingly.
> 
> The first car does indeed not look quick enough to have accelerated faster, so should have seen the gap between the trucks sooner and adjusted his speed before the corner.
> 
> The 2nd car looks like it's a Polo so should reach 88km/h ( the truck speed) easily on that lane seeing as he had some speed before the lane started, but he didn't keep a good distance between him and the car in front to floor it. That said, in his position I'd still merge in ( while flooring it) the moment that red thing joins in, rather than making an emergency stop there.
> 
> Officially if you reckon you can't join, you should stop at the start of the merging lane, not the end.
> Both cars have not looked ahead properly and planned their ''gap'' to join in, seeing how they wasted a lot of road space waiting for that first truck to pass. They just went and hoped it would be fine. I hate people who don't plan ahead in traffic and have problems merging . I'm guessing most people are way to overconcentrated on the corner on that entrance.


Yeah right, you're the best driver in the whole world. You always find a gap and know exactly when to drive 88km/h or 97km/h. Spare us the bullshit please! Short merging lane is clearly the problem here. If there was only a hard shoulder so you could prolong your merging it wouldn't be that bad.


----------



## Slagathor

Wilhem275 said:


> That thing is not so short... but those people really can't drive.


I have fond memories of going to university in Naples where the bus would essentially join the motorway from standstill on a really short merging lane. I think the shortest one I ever saw in Italy was in Salerno, that thing was genuinely scary.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*busiest road in the Netherlands*

The busiest stretch of road in the Netherlands became more busy in 2012.

It's the A4 between the Prins Clausplein and Ypenburg motorway interchanges near Den Haag. The 2012 AADT (average workday traffic) is 241,800 vehicles per day. A4 overtook the A16 Van Brienenoord Bridge in Rotterdam in 2010 as the busiest road in the country.

This segment of A4 is constructed as a braid to facilitate the heavy changes in traffic direction. This segment has 16 lanes.









(photo was taken in 1996, the lane drops on the photo are not present anymore).


----------



## Astenaar

ChrisZwolle said:


> This video shows what problems a short merging lane can cause on a busy motorway. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3MGzvoolsQ">YouTube Link</a> This particular motorway segment opened in 1966 and predates modern design standards (full width shoulders) by only a few years. Motorways designed in the 1950s and early 1960s often featured no shoulders at bridges to save money. This is an important junction, apart from Someren (pop. 11,000) and Asten (pop. 16,000) it also serves a substantial part of Helmond (pop. 89,000). There are plans to construct a new bridge across the canal for merging traffic. Ideal would be a widening to 2x3 lanes, because of the high truck share. This segment of A67 carries 54,000 vehicles per day, with a truck share of 36%. I counted 17 trucks in this 30 seconds video.


This situation really needs to be solved. Sometimes the buses are rerouted via this merging lane, it's horrible in peakhours. The interchange doesn't serve Asten though, most of the people from asten use the interchange at the former ei van ommel.


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## ChrisZwolle

*S100 De Oversteek, Nijmegen*

The "Oversteek" Bridge across the Waal River in Nijmegen opens at midnight. It's the second-longest main span of the Netherlands (285 m) and the largest arch bridge of this type in Europe (with a single arch). Project cost was € 260 million including local and access roads.


DSC_0137.jpg by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0135.jpg by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0056.jpg by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0045.jpg by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr


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## mapman:cz

ChrisZwolle said:


> The "Oversteek" Bridge across the Waal River in Nijmegen ...
> 
> DSC_0135.jpg by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr


Just out of curiosity, what do these numbers indicate? It can't be the height of water in river, since the highest number would be on the top and it's vice-versa. So, what does the zero mark mean?


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## MichiH

^^ Maybe the distance b/n water surface and bridge bottom line. That would allow boats to identify if they can pass the bridge (it changes b/n ebb and flow).


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## mapman:cz

That does make sense, thanks


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## ChrisZwolle

It indeed shows the clearance under the bridge. The regular navigational clearance at high water is 9.1 meters at all fixed bridges across the major rivers.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Steenbergen*

November aerial photos of the A4 under construction around Steenbergen.

Photos run from south (Tholen exit) to north (Dinteloord exit).


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## Redouane

Drove on the A15 (Rotterdam-Europoort) today, road is in horrible condition.. So many bumps etc in it. 1 bump made me hit the roof of my car while driving normal speed.. 120/130


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## KIWIKAAS

^^ Probably why the A/N15 is a 80-100 speed limit. :dunno:


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## radamfi

I didn't think NL did potholes. I am always amazed at how maintained Dutch roads are, even minor roads with no traffic. They are as smooth as a baby's bottom. The worst ones are the rural 60 km/h roads made with bricks, not good in my Smart car, but that is tradition and presumably designed to slow you down.


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## KIWIKAAS

^^
he wasn't talking about potholes
I know the road and I know a few spots (mainly by bridges) where you could get launched at 120+ kph


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## keokiracer

KIWIKAAS said:


> I know the road and I know a few spots (mainly by bridges) where you could get launched at 120+ kph


Ah, those kind. There's a 'nice' spot on the A4 northbound near Roelofarendsveen which will do the same to you. Imagine being not known in the area and driving 130 in the night and suddenly hitting that thing :nuts:


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## Slagathor

radamfi said:


> I didn't think NL did potholes.


You've not been to The Hague?

That road is in much worse shape now. The patched up areas in the link above have disintegrated and there are some new potholes further up the road.

Of course, this city has the worst infra crew in the whole country. They'll dig up a road for maintenance on the tram rails, then find out six months later that the sewer is due for a fix so they do it all over again.


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## radamfi

Slagathor said:


> You've not been to The Hague?


Cycle lane in the middle of 2 traffic lanes is not very Dutch.


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## Slagathor

You don't know the half of it.


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## Redouane

KIWIKAAS said:


> ^^
> he wasn't talking about potholes
> I know the road and I know a few spots (mainly by bridges) where you could get launched at 120+ kph


Still, they should fix it.


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## ChrisZwolle

it's pretty common in Zwolle


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## keokiracer

Chris, that first one has been replaced by a roundabout and a cycle lane and you know that  That situation is gone.


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## snowdog

Add the A20 in western direction near Nieuwerkerk ad IJssel to that list.


Can't do much about it unfortunately, the soil under the motorway keeps shrinking/dropping.


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## ChrisZwolle

They are moving this farmhouse from 1899 for the construction of the new 12 lane A1 near Muiden. It will be moved 300 meters.


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## radamfi

Slagathor said:


> You don't know the half of it.


So you don't get special treatment in Den Haag because the parliament sits there and the government is based there?


----------



## snowdog

radamfi said:


> So you don't get special treatment in Den Haag because the parliament sits there and the government is based there?


Municipal roads are much worse on average than national or provincial roads.
I've not been in the Hague for a while but around here, you can find the odd patched road here and there ( rather than repaved ) and you can see very slight rut, when it rains you can easily see the tracks from the tyres where cars usually sit.


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## radamfi

snowdog said:


> Municipal roads are much worse on average than national or provincial roads.
> I've not been in the Hague for a while but around here, you can find the odd patched road here and there ( rather than repaved ) and you can see very slight rut, when it rains you can easily see the tracks from the tyres where cars usually sit.


Patched roads may not look pretty but at least they don't damage your car like a pothole, or much worse, trap you bike wheel. Many countries would be grateful just to have patched roads! The Dutch like everything to be neat and tidy, so I assumed that's why Dutch roads seem to always look like they have just been resurfaced, and 'mere' patching is not considered acceptable.


----------



## Slagathor

radamfi said:


> So you don't get special treatment in Den Haag because the parliament sits there and the government is based there?


The politicians typically don't live in The Hague, they live in Amsterdam or lovely villages around Leiden. As for general special treatment, The Hague is usually the losing 3rd party in the lobbying battles between Amsterdam and Rotterdam. Of the three, The Hague has by far the worst public transport and the worst general infrastructure.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Badhoevedorp*

Today was the starting ceremony of the construction of new A9 around the town of Badhoevedorp, just outside Amsterdam. The project will be finished in late 2017 or 2018. The greenfield construction is not that difficult, but the reconstruction of the Badhoevedorp interchange (A4/A9) requires some more time due to phasing. Basically the whole interchange gets rebuild.


----------



## radamfi

Slagathor said:


> The politicians typically don't live in The Hague, they live in Amsterdam or lovely villages around Leiden. As for general special treatment, The Hague is usually the losing 3rd party in the lobbying battles between Amsterdam and Rotterdam. Of the three, The Hague has by far the worst public transport and the worst general infrastructure.


The Hague is the third biggest city though, so isn't that what you would expect? How well does The Hague do compared to Utrecht, Eindhoven, Almere?

One of the main problems with the UK is that the local councils can't raise their own money except small amounts from property tax (and even that is capped) and rely almost entirely on (small) handouts from central Government. If they want to do anything special, they have to bid for funding, in competition with other towns. In other European countries, the towns are to a larger extent masters of their own destiny. 

What is the balance between central and local goverment like in NL? How much freedom and funding do the local municipalities get?


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Pretty much the same as you summed up about the UK. Dutch municipalities get their money from property taxes and the "municipal fund", which is paid for by the national government.

In relation to transportation, most major non-national government projects are funded through the MIRT programme. To qualify for the MIRT programme, the project must cost at least € 112,5 million for regular municipalities and € 225 million for major cities and regions. Smaller projects are funded through the BDU (mainly covering losses of regional public transport).


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## ChrisZwolle

*A15, Botlek Bridge, Rotterdam*

Progress of the new Botlek Bridge in Rotterdam. It will be a large twin-span lift bridge.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A2/A67 De Hogt Interchange, Eindhoven*

A couple of aerial photos of "knooppunt De Hogt" near Eindhoven, taken in April 2013. The interchange was rebuilt in 2006-2009, together with the whole motorway structure around Eindhoven.




































All photos by Beeldbank Rijkswaterstaat / Joop van Houdt


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## ChrisZwolle

Noise barrier "Portland" along A15 near Rotterdam. It is one of the tallest noise barriers in the Netherlands (Poland: eat your heart out!)










It's a multi-functional noise barrier. It's also a flood protection.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A1/A6 Diemen - Almere*

The construction of the A1/A6 widening project has officially started today, with a formal ceremony.

The A1/A6 will be widened to 12 lanes in the coming years, including a new 12-lane aqueduct under the Vecht River. This sub project cost is € 910 million. 










Facts:

* 23 km widened motorway
* 138 km new lanes
* 1 million tons of asphalt
* 60 new engineering objects
* 8.5 km of noise barriers
* 1700 lamps for lighting
* 450 matrix signs
* 65 MTM gantries
* 9 million m³ of earthworks
* construction time: 6 years
* construction cost: € 910 million

It is part of a 63 km widening project between Schiphol Airport, Amsterdam and Almere that has a budget of € 4.7 billion, the largest ever road project in the Netherlands. A1/A6 is the second project of this programme.


----------



## Batavier

What is the reason for keeping that middle lane?


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## keokiracer

Those 2 middle lanes you mean? The wisselstroken? Well, because there is a huge flow towards Amsterdam in the morning and a huge flow in the evening towards Almere. 'Wisselstroken' in these cases are 4 lanes for the space of 2. Because you don't need that space towards Amsterdam in the evening and towards Almere in the morning.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N33 Assen - Zuidbroek*

_Rijkswaterstaat_ reports the widening of N33 from 2 to 4 lanes across 38 kilometers is now halfway to completion, after 10 months of work. The goal is to open the new 4-lane 100 km/h expressway in late 2014, although contractual completion is late March, 2015. 

It's a PPP project based on availability payments, so the constructor has an incentive to finish the project quickly.


----------



## JB1981

7 lanes (continuous, not at an interchange or something) , is that a European record?


----------



## g.spinoza

JB1981 said:


> 7 lanes (continuous, not at an interchange or something) , is that a European record?


In Italy there is a short stretch of A1 with 4 lanes + emergency, and beside it a 2 laned superstrada (no emergency). 7 lanes per direction.


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## aswnl

^^
If you count the hard shoulder as a lane, the Dutch A4 near Schiphol has several stretches of 2x6 with hardshoulder, and the A2 Holendrecht-Maarssen consists of 2x5 with 4 hard shoulders, of which the inner hard shoulders are of double width.

Dutch A4 south of Hoofddorp is in reconstruction now.
When completed, it will have a S2(C)-S5(E)-5S(E)-2S(C) setup over a length of about 4 km. 7 lanes for driving and 2 hard shoulders in each direction.

(S=shoulder, E=express, C=collector)


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## ChrisZwolle

*A76/A79 Kunderberg interchange*

The new ramps of the "Kunderberg" interchange (A76/A79) opened to traffic today. 

New design.









Former interchange:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15 Rotterdam*

The first phase of the A15 widening project along the southern side of Rotterdam will be completed this weekend. All lanes will open Sunday morning.

The newly widened stretch is located between the Benelux interchange (A4) and Vaanplein interchange (A29). A local-express system was constructed here. The through capacity between the two interchanges is 10 lanes, with 12-14 lanes at the widest segments.

Construction took 2 years and 2 months.


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## KIWIKAAS

^^
I drove from Vaanplein to Benelux a couple of weeks ago. I drove on the new parallel westbound carriageway between the 2 interchanges.


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## snowdog

Now to finish the A4, hopefully some traffic will avoid the A16/A20/A13 route and traffic coming from the south will use the new route to The Hague or Amsterdam.

Unfortunately, until an A16>A13 link will come though I think the A20 will still be congested .


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## ChrisZwolle

*N31/N32 Werpsterhoek interchange*

Progress of the "Werpsterhoek" interchange near Leeuwarden (end of A32).


















Photos: Friesland Air-Sietse Kooistra


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## ChrisZwolle

*A50 Ewijk Waal River Bridge*

The Waal River Bridge is being renovated while traffic is being detoured via the new bridge. 

They will replace the cable stays, which is quite a unique process that has not been done this way in Europe before. Although cables have been replaced in Europe before, the Ewijk Bridge has only two pylons with 4 cables, 2 sets of 2 cables at each pylon. They run across a saddle in the pylon.

To replace the cables, the saddle will be lowered, allowing the cables to be replaced, 2 at the time. The bridge has two pylons, so when the cables are being replaced, the amount of cables attached to the bridge deck is reduced by 25% (2 out of 8 cables). 

The difference with most other cable-stayed bridge is that other bridges tend to have many more cables than this bridge, so they can replaced easier without reducing the carrying capacity too much. The bridge is entirely taken out of traffic, so there is no live traffic load. 

The large cables (highest) are 221 m long and have a diameter of 37.5 cm. The smaller cables (lowest) are 135 m long and have a diameter of 33.5 cm.

Replacing the cables will take about 9 months and will begin in early 2014.


DSC_0010.jpg by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N340 Zwolle - Ommen*

The coalition in the province of Overijssel has disagreed at the very last moment about the N340 upgrade project. Coalition party VVD voted for a motion to reduce the budget by circa € 150 million, making the "shovel ready" plan unfeasible in its current form.

Parties had different motives to vote for the motion, the Greens and left-wing parties found the road upgrade unnecessary while VVD (liberals) wanted to upgrade N35 instead. 

A few notes;

* N35 is a national road, Overijssel province has no authority over it
* N340 is a provincial road. 
* the project is shovel ready, all procedures have been completed and land acquisition has already begun.
* N35 upgrade is years away, even with accelerated funding from the province

I do agree that N35 should have a higher priority to upgrade, because it carries more traffic, is more congested, less safe, and carries more long-distance traffic with no good alternatives. N340 is not very problematic and traffic growth is minimal. However, I don't think it's good public governance to withdraw funding this late in the process. They should have made up their minds a few years ago. Right now we won't see any major upgrades because there are absolutely no detailed plans to upgrade N35 beyond the Wijthmen bypass.

Hopefully this drama will open the door to a quick twinning of N35 between Zwolle and Raalte. Because that is not on the table yet, but highly desired. N35 is the main backbone of Overijssel province and serves 4 out of the 5 largest cities.


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> The first phase of the A15 widening project along the southern side of Rotterdam will be completed this weekend. All lanes will open Sunday morning.
> 
> The newly widened stretch is located between the Benelux interchange (A4) and Vaanplein interchange (A29). A local-express system was constructed here. The through capacity between the two interchanges is 10 lanes, with 12-14 lanes at the widest segments.
> 
> Construction took 2 years and 2 months.


There is still work to do on the Westbound stretch between Interchange/Knooppunt Ridderster and the Interchange/Knooppunt Benelux.

Two viaducts are still being constructed for the most northern parallel lanes. When finished traffic coming from the A15-A16 section driving toward Rotterdam & the Ports can not use the main 3-lane fly-over towards the A15-Westbound if they want to continue to the A29 in the direction of Zierikzee and Roosendaal (and Barendrecht-Carnisselande).

They will need to use the former main route (with the right and left turns in them) to access the parallel lanes. This needs to be done at the Interchange/Knooppunt Ridderster because after you have passed that there is no possibility left to leave the center lanes going to the Ports and the Beneluxtunnel via the Interchange/Knooppunt Beneluxplein.

I suspect it will take certain drivers who do not visit this area frequently quite a while to get used to that change.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A4, Hoofddorp interchanges*

The new A4 interchanges at Hoofddorp opened to traffic today. It also includes a short local-express system, which means the A4 has been widened to 14 lanes at this location.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N201 Schiphol Airport*

A new stretch of 4-lane N201 also opened to traffic today, from A4 to the Melbourneweg. It features a new viaduct across the old N201 (now N196).

Interestingly, a 900 meter segment of 2x2 N201 was built in only 8 months. They didn't acquire the right-of-way until 26 April 2013, and it opened today, 15 December 2013. The foundation was piled to skip the settlement period.


Untitled by Wegenrein, on Flickr


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## Suburbanist

^^ Why such a hurry?


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## keokiracer

They were behind on the original schedule due to juridical hassle over the right-of-way (the ground) on that specific 900 meter stretch.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Hoofddorp*

A few photos of the new local lanes of A4 at Hoofddorp.

Northbound:


Untitled by Wegenrein, on Flickr


Untitled by Wegenrein, on Flickr

Southbound:


Untitled by Wegenrein, on Flickr


Untitled by Wegenrein, on Flickr


Untitled by Wegenrein, on Flickr

As you can see the cross-section is 16 lanes between Hoofddorp and Hoofddorp-Zuid, but the outer lanes are auxiliary lanes between the two interchanges. 14 lanes are through lanes, eventually merging into 10 lanes. However, it has been proposed to extend the local lanes to the N207 at Nieuw-Vennep.


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## riiga

No E-numbers on the signs?


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## Wilhem275

What about the shark on the right? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## ChrisZwolle

*N50 Ens - Emmeloord*

Transportation minister Schultz signed the draft EIS for the widening of N50 between Ens and Emmeloord.

The existing road is a super two with shoulders, so additional right-of-way acquisition is not necessary. The widening costs only around € 17 million and will be completed in early 2016.










Current road:

Fotki 007 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


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## Road_UK

What about upgrading from the A6 junction towards Kampen? Perhaps get rid of those traffic lights to begin with...


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## aswnl

riiga said:


> No E-numbers on the signs?


Only on the expreslanes


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## Agnette

What about N33 widening to 2x2 in 2014?


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## EPA001

javimix19 said:


> Motorways of Holland are one of the most used in Europe because the country location in the middle of Europe and it's trade history.
> 
> *With the economic crisis that runs Europe: it is posible to Holland to have motorways without tolls?*
> 
> I know that is a sensitive matter and in Europe are other countries without tolls (Germany, Belgium...) But I don't know if it is viable.
> 
> I would like all motorways of Europe doesn't has tolls, but it is only a dream.


How would you define the word 'tolls' here? There are hardly any places in the Dutch motorway network where toll needs to be paid. The "Westerscheldetunnel" comes to mind, and also the little used "Kiltunnel". As far as I know there are no other sections in the Dutch motorway network where tolls need to be paid.

Also there are no "toll vignettes" for foreigners like we see in Switzerland or Austria, and there is no special truck toll like we see in Germany.


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## ChrisZwolle

Actually, there is a truck toll in the Netherlands which foreign trucks have to pay. It's called the "eurovignette". It's a common misconception among Dutch nationals that those scary foreign truckers don't pay for the motorways, while the Dutch do have to pay in other countries.


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## Palance

EPA001 said:


> As far as I know there are no other sections in the Dutch motorway network where tolls need to be paid.


Not in the motorway network, but there is another spot where traffich as to pay toll, on the bridge in the tiny place Nieuwerbrug. So that makes three


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## Coccodrillo

ChrisZwolle said:


> Actually, there is a truck toll in the Netherlands which foreign trucks have to pay. It's called the "eurovignette". It's a common misconception among Dutch nationals that those scary foreign truckers don't pay for the motorways, while the Dutch do have to pay in other countries.


Only non-Dutch trucks? How is it possible? How does that work? With an OBU like in Switzerland?


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## Road_UK

No, any truck. There are a few countries participating in the Euro vignette scheme.


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## ChrisZwolle

I'm not sure if it's only for foreign trucks, but it's a substitution for the heavy vehicle road tax truck owners pay in several countries.

https://www.eurovignettes.eu

The Eurovignette is used in Belgium, Denmark, Luxemburg, the Netherlands and Sweden. The annual vignette ranges from € 1250 to € 1550 depending on the Euro emission standards. A vignette is valid in all countries that share the system.

If I am correct this leaves only the UK, Finland, Estonia and Latvia without general truck tolls in the EU. All other countries have widespread toll roads or vignettes (though Spain has relatively few tolls).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Agnette said:


> What about N33 widening to 2x2 in 2014?


The project contractual deadline is 31/03/2015. But they stated they could open it a bit earlier in late 2014. I don't expect a very early opening because of the already tight schedule, they plan to twin all 37 km + two new motorway interchanges in under 2 years.


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> Actually, there is a truck toll in the Netherlands which foreign trucks have to pay. It's called the "eurovignette".


Ah, I did not know that. Thanks for the info. kay: I have learned something today. A good start of the new year. 



ChrisZwolle said:


> It's a common misconception among Dutch nationals that those scary foreign truckers don't pay for the motorways, while the Dutch do have to pay in other countries.


Well yes, but that was not the reason why I wrote my original comment.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*2013 congestion*

Congestion in 2013 has been reduced by 16%, according to the VID traffic information service. Widening projects reduced the impact of some of the worst individual bottlenecks from 5 to 1% (2012-2013). 

Traffic congestion peaked in 2007. 2013 recorded 50% less congestion. Traffic volumes have increased during that time. 

Due to the many widening projects, the amount of congestion caused by lack of capacity reduced, while congestion due to incidents, events and road works increased to 25%. However these are relative figures. The share of them is increasing, but the main cause of that is the reduction of the share of bottleneck congestion.

The worst congestion spots in 2013;

1) A20 eastbound at Terbergseplein in Rotterdam
2) A50 southbound at Ewijk (now solved)
3) A20 eastbound at Moordrecht
4) A16 northbound at Terbregseplein in Rotterdam
5) A9 southound at Badhoevedorp
6) A27 southbound at Merwede Bridge in Gorinchem
7) A13 southbound at Kleinpolderplein in Rotterdam
8) A1 eastbound at Eembrugge near Hilversum
9) A15 eastbound at Vaanplein in Rotterdam
10) A20 westbound at Rotterdam-Centrum

Out of the 10 worst spots, 6 are in the Rotterdam area, while only 1 is near Amsterdam. The rest are elsewhere. Note that numbers #1, #3 and #4 are only a few kilometers apart. A20 definitely needs to be widened plus the A13-A16 connection...


----------



## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Note that numbers #1, #3 and #4 are only a few kilometers apart. A20 definitely needs to be widened plus the A13-A16 connection...


Don't forget numbers 7 and 10


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Those are in another direction.


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## keokiracer

But they are there because of the same location, A20 at Rotterdam


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## ChrisZwolle

Yes, but they cannot be accumulated because they are not related. Numbers #1 and #4 merge into the same traffic flow, then encountering #3 a few kilometers down the road.

The bottom line though, is that A20 is highly congested in both directions, with a large concentration of top 10 bottlenecks, causing congestion on A13 and A16 as well.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

ChrisZwolle said:


> Congestion in 2013 has been reduced by 16%, according to the VID traffic information service. Widening projects reduced the impact of some of the worst individual bottlenecks from 5 to 1% (2012-2013).
> 
> Traffic congestion peaked in 2007. 2013 recorded 50% less congestion. Traffic volumes have increased during that time.
> 
> Due to the many widening projects, the amount of congestion caused by lack of capacity reduced, while congestion due to incidents, events and road works increased to 25%. However these are relative figures. The share of them is increasing, but the main cause of that is the reduction of the share of bottleneck congestion.
> 
> The worst congestion spots in 2013;
> 
> 1) A20 eastbound at Terbergseplein in Rotterdam
> 2) A50 southbound at Ewijk (now solved)
> 3) A20 eastbound at Moordrecht
> 4) A16 northbound at Terbregseplein in Rotterdam
> 5) A9 southound at Badhoevedorp
> 6) A27 southbound at Merwede Bridge in Gorinchem
> 7) A13 southbound at Kleinpolderplein in Rotterdam
> 8) A1 eastbound at Eembrugge near Hilversum
> 9) A15 eastbound at Vaanplein in Rotterdam
> 10) A20 westbound at Rotterdam-Centrum
> 
> Out of the 10 worst spots, 6 are in the Rotterdam area, while only 1 is near Amsterdam. The rest are elsewhere. Note that numbers #1, #3 and #4 are only a few kilometers apart. A20 definitely needs to be widened plus the A13-A16 connection...


The A13-A16 connection should remove the need to widen the A20.
At Kleinpolderplein about 45% eastbound enters the A20 from the A13 and at Terbregseplein about 60-70% exits the A20 to the A16. I think the A13-A16 link will reduce traffic on the A20 on that stretch by about 30% or more (a guess).


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## makaveli6

ChrisZwolle said:


> I'm not sure if it's only for foreign trucks, but it's a substitution for the heavy vehicle road tax truck owners pay in several countries.
> 
> https://www.eurovignettes.eu
> 
> The Eurovignette is used in Belgium, Denmark, Luxemburg, the Netherlands and Sweden. The annual vignette ranges from € 1250 to € 1550 depending on the Euro emission standards. A vignette is valid in all countries that share the system.
> 
> If I am correct this leaves only the UK, Finland, Estonia and Latvia without general truck tolls in the EU. All other countries have widespread toll roads or vignettes (though Spain has relatively few tolls).


Latvia plans to introduce truck tolling system in few years.


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## xlchris

ChrisZwolle said:


> The worst congestion spots in 2013;
> 
> 1) A20 eastbound at Terbergseplein in Rotterdam
> 2) A50 southbound at Ewijk (now solved)
> 3) A20 eastbound at Moordrecht
> 4) A16 northbound at Terbregseplein in Rotterdam
> 5) A9 southound at Badhoevedorp
> 6) A27 southbound at Merwede Bridge in Gorinchem
> 7) A13 southbound at Kleinpolderplein in Rotterdam
> 8) A1 eastbound at Eembrugge near Hilversum
> 9) A15 eastbound at Vaanplein in Rotterdam
> 10) A20 westbound at Rotterdam-Centrum


#5... where congestions gained with 275%


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That figure suggests it's worse than it is. Previously the bottleneck was at Raasdorp, which has now been moved to Badhoevedorp. 

Furtunately works are underway to relieve that segment of A9 with a new 2x3 lane alignment around the town of Badhoevedorp.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Oosterbeek*

A 1959 photo of A12 at the Oosterbeek interchange (just west of Arnhem). This bridge still exists, but will be replaced in a few years because of the planned widening to 2x3 lanes. Note the road markings for the merging lane.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*MTM - Motorway Traffic Management*

Installing automatic traffic control signs - recently hailed in Texas as a great new innovation - along A2 in 1978 - 36 years ago.


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> Installing automatic traffic control signs - recently hailed in Texas as a great new innovation - along A2 in 1978 - 36 years ago.


With the way this system is implemented in the Netherlands there is no competition with other countries. It is a superior signage system. But it is expensive and will only work (or be necessary enough to justify the costs) in countries with (very) high traffic densities. Also in the Netherland it is installed on the busy sections only. But since we have so many busy (or congested) sections, the system can be found widely spread all over The Netherlands.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A13/A20 Kleinpolderplein Interchange, Rotterdam*

The Kleinpolderplein interchange under construction in 1969, looking southwest.


----------



## EPA001

^^ A beautiful picture which shows nice details. kay:

The large chimney's in the background are part of power plants which do not exist anymore. The ones on the left were part of the Schiecentrale and the 5 on the right were part of the Waalhavencentrale.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Velperbroek Interchange, Arnhem*

Sign showing A48 at the Velperbroek Interchange in Arnhem. A48 was renumbered to A348 in 1993, when the motorway was transferred to the province of Gelderland (and thus received a 3-digit road number).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A52, Arnhem*

A photo showing the number A52 in Arnhem. A52 was also renumbered in 1993, to A325. Photos showing A52 are rare to find. It is one of the first postwar motorways in the Netherlands, with the second carriageway opening in 1953.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*E8-36*

A 1971 photo showing a road number E8-36. A-numbers were not introduced on the directional signs until around 1976. Although motorways were numbered before 1976, they were only indicated with E-numbers. The current motorway numbering system dates back to 1932. Few countries have a motorway numbering system that is this old.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15, Rotterdam*

A15 in Rotterdam has a short section with 2x6 lanes. It carries 177,000 vehicles per day.


----------



## Slagathor

ChrisZwolle said:


> A 1971 photo showing a road number E8-36. A-numbers were not introduced on the directional signs until around 1976. Although motorways were numbered before 1976, they were only indicated with E-numbers. The current motorway numbering system dates back to 1932. Few countries have a motorway numbering system that is this old.


Do other countries update and change it? And if so, should we?


----------



## sotonsi

More that most countries didn't have detailed plans for a motorway network then.

eg, the UK's oldest proposal that we know of for a motorway network was late 30s. They finally sorted out the numbering around 1960, having opened quite a length of motorway before everything was sorted (Lancs calling the Preston bypass the M6 set the cat among the pigeons - the MoT planned for that to be called M2... However spur routes and stuff weren't finalised).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*ecoducts*

4 ecoducts were officially opened to animals today in Noord-Brabant province. Construction cost was € 9.9 million.


----------



## mapman:cz

^^ BTW, who pays for these ecoduts in NL?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The animals pay a toll 

No seriously, it is paid for by the province of Noord-Brabant and the national road & water authority _Rijkswaterstaat_.


----------



## -Pino-

sotonsi said:


> More that most countries didn't have detailed plans for a motorway network then.


The Dutch plans were not extremely detailed either, but the authorities at the time were clever enough to attribute numbers to corridors between cities rather than to specific road. So many of our current numbered A-roads were created as a single carriageway state route with the same number. It is an advantage that we 'gained' by being a late arrival in the field of route numbering. Upgrade of those roads to full motorways at a later stage did not require any renumbering. Other countries, to thecontrary, had by that time attributed state route numbers to other corridors that were often difficult to reconcile with later motorway planning. So when the motorway systems grew, authorities faced the choice between completely overhauling existing numbers to create an integrated numbering and creating a new system next to the existing state route system. Not surprising that most countries in Europe chose the latter.

Nonetheless, the Dutch have certainly not left their system untouched since 1932. Many historical town-to-town route numbers have been combined into one as soon as it turend out that they were becoming one motorway (maybe even with a couple of TOTSOs). The current A1, for instance, started as State Routes 1, 25, 44 and 444. Even after they started signposting state route numbers as A and N routes in the 1970s, route numbers have been adapted to reality, e.g. A15 around Doetinchem becoming A18 and A50 between 's Hertogenbosch and Oss changing from A50 to A59. You need that willingness to change to keep an old system at work.


----------



## -Pino-

ChrisZwolle said:


> A photo showing the number A52 in Arnhem. A52 was also renumbered in 1993, to A325. Photos showing A52 are rare to find.


Such a shame as I drove it so often when the route was still numbered A52. It's an interesting sign that you post here. It is not the A52 itself, but signs referring to on-ramps. If you turn right, following the red shield, you directly access the motorway. The bracketed blue sign tells you that, in order to take the other on-ramp, motorist first need to follow ordinary routes. Namely in order to cross the bridge and then take the on-ramp in the opposite direction.

Anyway, I do not think that I have ever seen Dutch route number shields like this, on small signs with only an arrow next to them. It seems a US thing to me. Probably, these shields were quick fixes after it was decided to signpost national route numbers. But it did not take a really long time before those numbers were integrated in the ordinary signs. I started to look closely at signs from the mid 1980s onwards and cannot recall these at all.


----------



## Kanadzie

-Pino- said:


> Even after they started signposting state route numbers as A and N routes in the 1970s, route numbers have been adapted to reality, e.g. A15 around Doetinchem becoming A18 and A50 between 's Hertogenbosch and Oss changing from A50 to A59. You need that willingness to change to keep an old system at work.


Not necessarily, look at how US Interstate system, placing Interstate 99 in north-south corridor between I-79 and I-81  I don't think anybody ever noticed that isn't on this forum.


----------



## mapman:cz

ChrisZwolle said:


> The animals pay a toll
> 
> No seriously, it is paid for by the province of Noord-Brabant and the national road & water authority _Rijkswaterstaat_.




I've been just curious if the costs are born only by the road owner/administrator or by some other subjects as well. Do you happen to know the share of both contributors?


----------



## sotonsi

Kanadzie said:


> Not necessarily, look at how US Interstate system, placing Interstate 99 in north-south corridor between I-79 and I-81  I don't think anybody ever noticed that isn't on this forum.


That, like the suffixed I-69s in Southern Texas, was a number written into law.

That said, they in the US always felt that having the numbering rules soft, though still acknowledging their existence, works better. The US route network had all sorts of rule violations from the beginning (well implementation) as they acknowledged that the road system and their numbering system might not perfectly match.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

In general, the average motorist doesn't really care whether a numbering system is perfect or has "violations". I'm always a bit amused by those American road enthusiasts being upset about violations, either existing or proposed.


----------



## -Pino-

As a good roadgeek, the way the Dutch have proceeded to using A18 in the east always puzzles me: it violates the regional clustering principles that govern the Dutch numbering. But hardly any motorist bothers, so worth nothing more than a theoretical discussion.

In any event, it shows that the renumberings that we have had in the Netherlands did not serve to create a perfect grid numbering system or so. They just adjusted individual numbers because they were no longer in touch with reality. The A15 around Doetinchem became A18, because it had become clear that this road would never be connected with the A15 west of Nijmegen so that a combined number was no longer justified. A59 was extended in the east and west (at the expense of A50 and the original N18) in order to create one big east-west corridor. Previous changes were also combinations of original numbers that had merged into one big road.


----------



## Suburbanist

Besides A2/N2, are there other cases of N and A routes paralleling each other?

I find that numbering plan in Eindhoven incredibly confusing for anyone not used to the area.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Neverworld said:


> By the way, I was driving to Groningen yesterday. Is there any chance the Hoogeveen interchange will be redesigned at some point? Following the motorway A28, only one lane is available for continuing to Groningen where everyone wants to go, while two lanes continue towards Emmen and Germany, where noone wants to go. Moreover, the one lane towards Groningen makes one of the tighter turns I have seen on motorway interchanges. Talking about this situation.


There are no plans for it. It rarely, if ever causes congestion so it's not a priority at all, although I agree the situation is not ideal. 

It's a result of previous plans, where the motorway to Groningen was planned from Emmeloord to Assen/Groningen. The A28 between Hoogeveen and Assen was originally a provincial road, then gradually expanded into a motorway. The A28 between Meppel and Hoogeveen was originally planned as an east-west motorway to Emmen, which explains the situation at Hoogeveen.

The planned numbers in 1968: 

* RW32: Zwolle - Meppel - Leeuwarden
* RW37: Meppel - Hoogeveen - Emmen
* RW36: Hoogeveen - Assen - Groningen

It was changed to A28 in 1977, one year after they started signing the A-numbers.

The unbuilt Emmeloord - Assen motorway is still visible in the current road structure, because there are no east-west routes from Assen to the west. Also, Assen was a small town until the 1960s. It currently has 67,000 inhabitants.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Aquaduct Drachtsterweg, Leeuwarden*

Construction has officially began today on the "Aquaduct Drachtsterweg", a short tunnel under the Van Harinxma Canal in the city of Leeuwarden. It's part of a project to widen the Drachtsterweg to 2x2 lanes as a high quality urban arterial. 

This means there are currently three aquaducts under construction in Leeuwarden. This aquaduct will be completed in late 2015. It replaces a bascule bridge. It will be the 16th aquaduct in Friesland province.

Render video:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*traffic fines*

There have been 10,334,619 traffic offenses sanctioned in the year 2013, up from 9,661,094 in 2012. The far majority of the fines were issued for exceeding the speed limit, 8,442,360 such fines were issued (82% of all traffic fines).

Out of the 10.3 million traffic fines, only 5% were issued by a police officer pulling the violator over (554,529). Approximately 25% of all speeding tickets are issued via section controls, or 2,159,897 fines, most of those on A4 at Leidschendam (815,968) and A2 Amsterdam - Utrecht (990,870).


----------



## Kanadzie

That is insane and depressing. Is www.flitsservice.nl still working? 

I am curious of the 5% tickets issued by officers, but 18% not being speeding. Does it mean 13% red-light camera tickets? What other kinds of booby-traps are there?


----------



## keokiracer

Kanadzie said:


> That is insane and depressing. Is www.flitsservice.nl still working?


As a member of that site I can report that my other tab with Flitsservice is still up and running 



Kanadzie said:


> Does it mean 13% red-light camera tickets? What other kinds of booby-traps are there?


Might be parking fines. Because they are not cops but 'authorized investigating officer' (google translate: original is: Bevoegd OpsporingsAmbtenaar/BOA). Not sure if that clarifies (part of) that 13%.


----------



## MrAronymous

ChrisZwolle said:


> New style signage in Breda


Are they no longer back-lit? Cause I think I can see the reflective material shimmering in the sun. Also what is going to happen to the other kinds of 'Anwb redesign' signs?


----------



## snowdog

Kanadzie said:


> That is insane and depressing. Is www.flitsservice.nl still working?
> 
> I am curious of the 5% tickets issued by officers, but 18% not being speeding. Does it mean 13% red-light camera tickets? What other kinds of booby-traps are there?












Speed 8.4 mill, parking 668k, 220k redlight, 1 mill rest.

Document shows other data as well, the ''average speed camera zones''/''section control'' are in the bottom tables.

The A20 and A13 zones were down most of the year hence the low results.
The new section on the A4 near Leidschendam and the A2 between A'dam and Utrecht have been a big cash cow for the government.

Both are wide (2x3 and 2x5 lane respectively) motorways, who are flat, straight, and going through farm/grassland but have a silly 100km/h speed limit to satisfy NIMBY morons, and eco facists.


----------



## Red85

snowdog said:


> Speed 8.4 mill, parking 668k, 220k redlight, 1 mill rest.
> 
> Document shows other data as well, the ''average speed camera zones''/''section control'' are in the bottom tables.
> 
> The A20 and A13 zones were down most of the year hence the low results.
> The new section on the A4 near Leidschendam and the A2 between A'dam and Utrecht have been a big cash cow for the government.
> 
> Both are wide (2x3 and 2x5 lane respectively) motorways, who are flat, straight, and going through farm/grassland but have a silly 100km/h speed limit to satisfy NIMBY morons, and eco facists.


Really the only reason why these motherfuckers are there. Money. And where speeding is dangerous, in urban area's, there isn't a camera or officer in miles around.


----------



## lafreak84

I thought speed cameras were set to trigger at 140km/h? I used to drive just under that in Rotterdam and never got a ticket.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9 second Muiden Bridge*

The construction of the second Muiden Bridge across the Amsterdam-Rhine Canal began today. It is part of the new A9 bypass at the Diemen motorway interchange.

The new bridge will feature 9 lanes, 4 westbound, 2 reversible and 3 eastbound. It is part of the Schiphol-Amsterdam-Almere megaproject, and is part of the sub project A1/A6 Diemen - Almere which will be constructed between 2014 and 2020. 

The exact dimensions of the bridge are not known, so I can only estimate them, the total span is circa 300 - 310 meters, and the main span is circa 165 meters. The clearance for shipping is 10 meters.

It is located approximately 150 meters south of the A1 Muiden Bridge. 

In total 20 lanes cross the canal at this location.


----------



## snowdog

lafreak84 said:


> I thought speed cameras were set to trigger at 140km/h? I used to drive just under that in Rotterdam and never got a ticket.





> The A20 and A13 zones were down most of the year hence the low results.



If they'd work you'd get fines from 107 or 108 km/h iirc... ( or 87 in the 80 zone)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*

The A4 in Schiedam is progressing well.



























photos by *jb_nl*


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Steenbergen*

Aerial photo of the A4 at Steenbergen.








photo by Joop van Houdt


----------



## Suburbanist

What are planned autosnelwegen openings for 2014?


----------



## keokiracer

A4 near Leiden should be fully opened with 2 aqueducts somewhere in this year. The A1 near Amsterdam widened to 2x4 lanes, the A10-South near Amsterdam-Zuidoost will be widened to 2x4 lanes ( both part of the huge SAA-project) and further along A10 finally the full capacity of the Coentunnel will be available along with an extra lane on the A8 just north of the tunnel 
Highway-wise that's about it. So no real openings, but more widenings. 2015 will be a good year for new highways 

http://www.wegenwiki.nl/Lijst_van_wegenprojecten_in_Nederland


----------



## EPA001

^^ Also a small section of the A15 (Westbound Ridderster-Vaanplein) will be finalised this year.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Nijverdal Tunnel (N35) will also open to traffic in late 2014. It's the last national road that still runs through the main street of a town in the Netherlands. Even though the new road is not perfect (should be 2x2 + controlled access), it will be a big reliever.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Máxima Bridge, Alphen aan den Rijn*

The construction of the Máxima Bridge has been approved by the Council of State. All appeals have been rejected. 

The new bridge will span the Oude Rijn River in the northwestern part of Alphen aan den Rijn.


----------



## aswnl

keokiracer said:


> the A10-South near Amsterdam-Zuidoost will be widened to 2x4 lanes


You mean the A10-East.


----------



## keokiracer

aswnl said:


> You mean the A10-East.


Yes, my bad. I keep screwing that up.:nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interesting project in Katwijk, a coastal town in Zuid-Holland province. The current coastal defense is insufficient to withstand future windstorms and part of the town (3,000 people) live outside the primary seawall. 

They will construct a new dune-like seawall in front of the boulevard. The interesting part is the integrated underground parking garage inside the dune. The new parking garage features 770 parking spaces, and replaces the streetside parking. Current streetside parking appears to be between 100 and 200 spaces.


----------



## Reivajar

^^ Interesting. However I don't understand how are defenses improved? Actually, what I can see from current google maps images is dunes are existing. Is it about building larger dunes?


----------



## keokiracer

Where do you see dunes at the city?
https://maps.google.nl/maps?q=Katwi...=82TDAn21B2sjRDC82HQ-Xg&cbp=12,241.42,,0,3.92


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The dune at that location is not considered the main sea defense. This dotted line indicates the current primary coastal defense.


----------



## Reivajar

keokiracer said:


> Where do you see dunes at the city?
> https://maps.google.nl/maps?q=Katwi...=82TDAn21B2sjRDC82HQ-Xg&cbp=12,241.42,,0,3.92


I have no idea how to call those mountains covered by grass, but I would say there is some part of sand there too. I was referring to them. And in the diagram posted by ChrisZwolle dunes are as well covered by grass.... so I guess I can call them dunes.


----------



## keokiracer

Reivajar said:


> I have no idea how to call those mountains covered by grass, but I would say there is some part of sand there too. I was referring to them. And in the diagram posted by ChrisZwolle dunes are as well covered by grass.... so I guess I can call them dunes.


Those things are considered too small (not high enough) to be considered main sea defense. It's just a small dune that isn't going to be very good at protecting the area behind. It's a dune, but safety-wise that thing might as well have not been there. It's not of much use safety-wise.


----------



## Reivajar

^^ OK. Thanks. I got it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N347 Nijverdal*

A new bypass is planned for Hellendoorn-Nijverdal in Overijssel province. It will detour the N347 around the older parts of town, where it is a narrow road.

N347 north of Hellendoorn has very low traffic volumes by Dutch standards, only 2,400 vehicles per day. The northernmost three roundabouts are unncessary given the low traffic volumes. When completed, N347 around Hellendoorn-Nijverdal will feature 11 roundabouts, all of them 20 km/h low-speed types.

Construction is planned for 2015-2017.


----------



## sponge_bob

Fair play to the Dutch for building parking under their new _outer_ sea defences, integrated thinking 101. 

It surely won't end up like the car park down in Kerry did only last month.


----------



## egramsb

*A4 Delft-Schiedam*

A4 near Delft-Zuid, photos taken on the same spot, timeline 2011-now.
--> Full update of this spot
--> Longer timeline

mar 2011









nov 2012









jul 2013









now (14 feb 2014)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Maastricht*

An aerial photo of the A2 Maastricht tunnel project. This is the southern part, at the Europaplein interchange.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 BRAVO*

A fairly large regional project is the improvement of traffic in the Woerden-Harmelen area west of Utrecht. It's called A12 BRAVO or _Brede Regionale Aanpak Voorkomt Oponthoud_. 

Woerden is a small city of 35,000 inhabitants with a historical core, but is chiefly a suburban commuter town. The entire town is dependent on a single interchange with A12, other roads are narrow dike roads with bike lanes, incapable of handling large volumes of traffic. 

Meanwhile, Utrecht grew westward with the 30,000 people subdivision "Leidsche Rijn" which was also poorly connected to A12. It is one of the largest VINEX developments in the Netherlands, planned for some 90,000 people.

Several projects, shown in the map below, will improve access to the A12 by constructing new bypasses and access roads (most of them two-lane).


----------



## snowdog

Very nice, never understood the access road to 14a ( nr.9 on above pic), unless you wanted to go west it is very impractical driving the wrong way if you need to go to Utrecht.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There is a substantial traffic flow west, in fact, the morning rush hour has higher volumes going out of Utrecht than going into Utrecht on A12.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N316 Zeddam - 's-Heerenberg*

The Council of State has dismissed all appeals against the construction of the missing link of N316 between Zeddam and 's-Heerenberg in the Gelderland province. Construction can now proceed.

The missing link is approximately 2.2 km long and can be constructed in a year. All crossing traffic will be grade-separated, but it will connect to roundabouts at either end. The idea is to create a bypass of the border town of 's-Heerenberg, to improve traffic from Doetinchem to Emmerich (Germany). It is a municipal road project, but it will likely be exchanged with Gelderland after completion (the old N316 will then become a municipal road).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*turbine interchange*

Interesting article about the first "turbine interchange" in the Netherlands, dated 1970.









Scan by _Wouter_.

This interchange was never built. It was supposed to connect A4 and A14 near Leidschendam (just outside The Hague), but A14 was never built. Remarkably, the article states the construction would begin "next year". The construction cost was estimated at 20 million guilders, considered slightly more expensive than a regular interchange at that time. 

They note the design was copied from the United States, even though full turbine interchanges are very rare the in the U.S. The most prominent example may be Amarillo, Texas.


----------



## Wilhem275

What was the first one actually built?


----------



## da_scotty

^^
I don't believe it has...


----------



## KIWIKAAS

Wilhem275 said:


> What was the first one actually built?


The 'Vaanplein' interchange (A15/A29 south of Rotterdam) was a full turbine interchange ( built around the same time as this proposed interchange). Since around 2003 Vaanplein has been in a state of reconstruction. The last original turbine flyovers should be gone within a year or 2.


----------



## keokiracer

The Vaanplein interchange officially wasn't a turbine interchange but a windmill-interchange. Difference:
windmill:








turbine:








Basically: windmill-interchange has tighter curves for the connector ramps.


----------



## Surel

A13 Rotterdam. A Shell gas station, but where and when?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Likely at the A13/N209 interchange just outside Rotterdam. Back in the days the Netherlands had many gas stations at interchanges. This interchange was a trumpet until the late 1980s.

I think this photo was taken in the early 1960s, A13 was widened to six lanes in 1960, it was the first six-lane motorway in the Netherlands.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

g.spinoza said:


> It combines the area consumption of roundabouts with the high number of conflict points of regular intersections. Way to go.


Correct, but this solution is usually limited to suburban 50 km/h roads. You rarely see it outside urban areas or near historic cores where space is more limited. One has to understand that perhaps 70% of urban Netherlands was developed after World War II, so there tends to be more space than in some older cities.

It's better than rotondomania, as happens here in Heerhugowaard. Note that Dutch roundabouts are very tight with a diameter of circa 36 m, combined with the angles at which the roads connect to the roundabout, which allow for a lower speed and comfort than seen in most other parts of Europe.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15, Botlek Bridge, Rotterdam*

Construction of the new Botlek Bridge in Rotterdam.


----------



## eindhoven the best

A76 Simpelveld (Limburg)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*taxation*

The ministry of finance released some figures concerning the fuel excise duty today.

Tax revenue increased in the past 10 years, especially diesel excise duty revenue increased by 55% between 2003 and 2013, while gasoline excise duty revenue increased by 12% during that time. 

The total fuel excise duty revenue in 2013 was € 7.5 billion (excluding VAT and strategic oil supply tax).

These are all motoring tax revenues:

* fuel duty: € 7.5 billion
* VAT over fuel duty: € 1.6 billion*
* BPM (new car tax): € 1.8 billion (down from € 3.4 billion in 2006)
* road tax: € 3.2 billion

total: € 14 billion (excluding VAT)

* The Netherlands charges VAT over the total pump price, including fuel duty. So fuel duty itself is taxed too.

The 2013 national road budget is € 2.8 billion. Provincial road budgets are funded through the road tax (partially) and the national government (partially). The provincial road budgets for all 12 provinces combined is estimated at € 1 billion. 

Municipal road budgets come from various sources, including local real estate taxes, parking fees and provincial and national government transfers. It's hard to put an accurate estimate on municipal road budgets, but it is estimated at another € 1 billion.

One cannot add all these budgets together because municipal and provincial road projects are partially funded through the national road budget (called MIRT and BDU).


----------



## da_scotty

Construction of the new Rotterdamsebaan in The Hague has started! This will be a new tunnel/dual carriageway amed at relieving traffic into The Hague!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Actual tunnel boring will not begin until 2017 though. What you'll see now are preparatory works which will take quite a while since it's an urban area with many utilities that need to be relocated.


----------



## Slagathor

I'm not convinced of the use of this project. Seems to me this thing will only really relieve the Prins Clausplein interchange.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's one of four upgrade projects into The Hague, to reduce the dependence on A12 Utrechtsebaan.


----------



## Slagathor

Yes, therein lies the problem. As far as I can tell, all projects focus on getting cars from the motorway into the city. There doesn't seem to be a coherent strategy to guiding cars _around_ the city before they're funneled into the city center. 

I realize the geography is a tad complicated, but is there any project upcoming that would guide incoming traffic to the North or South flank of the city center before turning into it? A few years ago we had the Hubertus tunnel and viaduct but after that, nothing (unless I've missed something).

As it is, all these projects keep pumping traffic into the city center from one direction: the East. This helps very few people.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The idea is to create a half ring road by separating local and express traffic on A4, and let them use one of four major entrances into and from The Hague. The N14 will function as the nothern arc and N221 as the southern arc, with Prinses Beatrixlaan, Rotterdamsebaan and A12 Utrechtsebaan as spurs into the city.

The city is currently too dependent on just the A12 Utrechtsebaan.

A tunnel underneath The Hague to complete the ringroad on the western side was found to be too expensive.


----------



## da_scotty

The ANWB (Dutch Automobile Organisation) has concluded that there where less traffic jams and delays this winter due to mild weather. The amount of jams was down by 14% in comparison to february'13. Only in the Amsterdam region the there was a 24% increase in traffic jams.

This is of course logical when you compare the weather in the winter 2013 and the spring-like weather of 2014.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

One snowy rush hour can accumulate as many "kilometer minute" delays as a week or more of regular congestion.


----------



## snowdog

Which is why I dislike snow, society slows down, badly.

Trains fail.
Roads are a total chaos.
Not the forget all the salt rubbish corroding your car!


The only plus side is abandoned snowy parkings for some sideways fun.


----------



## da_scotty

snowdog said:


> Which is why I dislike snow, society slows down, badly.
> 
> Trains fail.
> Roads are a total chaos.
> Not the forget all the salt rubbish corroding your car!
> 
> 
> The only plus side is abandoned snowy parkings for some sideways fun.


I like snow, it takes the edge of things, instead of stressing I usually enjoy taking it a notch down, enjoying the snow and the beauty it brings.
And I take the train as well during these periods, preparation is key to avoid dissapointment, something the Dutch don't understand.


----------



## Slagathor

da_scotty said:


> preparation is key to avoid dissapointment, something the Dutch don't understand.


Yes. This. A thousand times this.


----------



## snowdog

da_scotty said:


> I like snow, it takes the edge of things, instead of stressing I usually enjoy taking it a notch down, enjoying the snow and the beauty it brings.
> And I take the train as well during these periods, preparation is key to avoid dissapointment, something the Dutch don't understand.





Slagathor said:


> Yes. This. A thousand times this.


Exactly the reason why I don't like public transport personally even though it's free for me . Nothing to do with not understanding, I hate planning, I want to do what I want when I want it, not having to plan out trips, just get out and go, and get somewhere quickly. It's only a last resort if my money's gone and in bad weather.:lol:

I'm more of a sunny weather type, sunglasses on, arm out the window, roof open, no thick clothes, take it easy . Love the weather now . Or get on the moped in my t-shirt. Not to mention the Dutch are actually capable of normal driving in good weather mostly, less traffic jams than in winter or autumn.


----------



## postHUMANproject

ChrisZwolle said:


> Likely at the A13/N209 interchange just outside Rotterdam.


Spot on! You can see the Overschiese Plassen on the left side, and the Schielaan far on the right.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*2014 road works*

Not a whole lot of maintenance road works are planned for 2014. Apart from new capacity construction, there are only a few places with road works in 2014.

The most prominent maintenance works are on A16 between Ridderkerk and the Moerdijk Bridge (through Dordrecht) which is the only location with long-term roadworks between 7 March and 13 June. Most lane closures are during the night and weekend, so traffic impact should not be extreme.

Two weekend closures are planned for maintenance on tubes of the A4 Benelux Tunnel in Rotterdam in March.

Several weekend closures are planned for A4 between Rijswijk and the Ypenburg interchange in The Hague in March, April and May. This means the entire A4 around The Hague will be renovated before the A4 extension to Rotterdam opens in late 2015.

Complex works are ongoing at the A12 Galecopper Bridge in Utrecht. The bridge piers are being strengthened and the deck will be replaced. In addition, the bridge will be raised to allow better shipping clearance. Night closures are planned and realigned lanes from late July to November. 

There are no other road works that have a long-term impact on traffic flow (i.e. no long-term lane closures, no permanent work zones, etc.) Most work is done during weekend closures and during the night, so traffic impact from road works should be pretty minimal. In 2013, only 4% of traffic congestion in the Netherlands was the result of road works.


----------



## Slagathor

snowdog said:


> Exactly the reason why I don't like public transport personally even though it's free for me . Nothing to do with not understanding, I hate planning, I want to do what I want when I want it, not having to plan out trips, just get out and go, and get somewhere quickly. It's only a last resort if my money's gone and in bad weather.:lol:
> 
> I'm more of a sunny weather type, sunglasses on, arm out the window, roof open, no thick clothes, take it easy . Love the weather now . Or get on the moped in my t-shirt. Not to mention the Dutch are actually capable of normal driving in good weather mostly, less traffic jams than in winter or autumn.


You plainly live in the wrong country.


----------



## da_scotty

^^
Hihi, snowdog's ideal country is one like this:
inhabitants: himself
goverment influence: marginal/none
speed limit: gazilion/km/h
roads: empty and wide
gas price: 0,000001 vietnamese dong/liter
weather: constant 25 °C with blue skies!


----------



## Kanadzie

^^
I agree sounds like pretty awesome place, Texas isn't so far from that though, but damn, if they get a little snow, or a little ice? Apocalypse :lol:


----------



## Slagathor

You heard him, snowdog. Get your ass to Texas.


----------



## snowdog

I can already see myself driving around my ranch in my white '76 Cadillac Eldorado with the roof down, Ray bans on, cowboyhat .

Anyhow:



http://www.rtvoost.nl/nieuws/default.aspx?nid=184236&cat=1 said:


> Rene Markink uit Enschede gaat vrijdag knooppunt Azelo op de A35 met auto's blokkeren. Met de actie wil hij aandacht vragen voor de misstanden in de politiek en maatschappij.
> Samen met twintig vrienden voert hij de blokkade-actie uit. Om 15.00 uur wordt het verkeer op de snelweg tegengehouden. Met de actie sluit hij aan bij een landelijke protestactie die is ontstaan op Facebook. Volgens Markink is de actie tegen de huidige regering hard nodig omdat er veel misgaat. "Deze regering brengt het geld naar Brussel alsof het water is."
> De actie zal volgens Markink veilig verlopen. Mocht het fout dreigen te gaan, dan wordt de actie onmiddellijk gestaakt. Transport en Logistiek Nederland heeft al aangegeven zich te distantiëren van de actie.


Some group wants to block the A35 @ the Azelo interchange with some friends as a protest against the government.

The idea might be good, but the place is completely wrong, if they want to block anything they should block The Hague so the politicials are actually affected.


----------



## da_scotty

^^
Pfff the EuroSceptism in the Netherlands is reaching levels which match crazyness. 99% of the people don't know what they are talking about and just copy populistic quotes from Far Left and Far right.

Blocking a road has what effect?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interestingly the Dutch and UK contribution to the EU is the lowest percentage of GDP of all EU countries at 0.65%


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ But NL is still one of the very few net contributors, along with Italy, Germany, Belgium, France, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Austria, UK. All others get from EU more than they pay.


----------



## Slagathor

Well we can't all receive more than than we pay and if we all reach a perfect 0, what's the point of the budget?

People need to stop whining about a budget that constitutes slightly more than 1% of EU GDP. Hopeless populism.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Dutch populists also don't seem to understand that the Netherlands is only a tiny part of the EU. The Netherlands is only 3% of EU. If you follow the comments on the internet you'd think the Netherlands is single-handedly paying for Greek bailouts.

You see the same with Groningen province, which is always complaining how little money they get from the national budget. They don't seem to understand that 97% of the Dutch do not live in Groningen, hence Groningen does not get 10% of the national budget.


----------



## g.spinoza

Slagathor said:


> Well we can't all receive more than than we pay and if we all reach a perfect 0, what's the point of the budget?


I was just stating a fact, I wasn't giving it political or populistic innuendos.



ChrisZwolle said:


> You see the same with Groningen province, which is always complaining how little money they get from the national budget. They don't seem to understand that 97% of the Dutch do not live in Groningen, hence Groningen does not get 10% of the national budget.


Maybe this is not the case for Groningen, but budget should not only be calculated according to population, also to area, terrain, differences in population densities, economic strength... etc


----------



## Slagathor

g.spinoza said:


> I was just stating a fact, I wasn't giving it political or populistic innuendos.


I know, I was just ranting. It wasn't directed at you.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*speed cameras*

It has been reported that 9 out of 12 "section control" average speed cameras are currently out of order. Their electronic systems are outdated and malfunction so often they decided to shut them all down for the time being.

Apparently, the only remaining section controls are;

* A2 Amsterdam - Utrecht
* A4 at Leidschendam (outside The Hague)
* A12 Harmelen - Woerden (west of Rotterdam)


----------



## da_scotty

Then again we have speed cameras at constructions sides:








_(c)Picture by Michiel_


----------



## Neverworld

Slagathor said:


> Well we can't all receive more than than we pay and if we all reach a perfect 0, what's the point of the budget?
> 
> People need to stop whining about a budget that constitutes slightly more than 1% of EU GDP. Hopeless populism.


I don't care that much about budget, my main gripe with the EU is the lack of democracy. The Netherlands voted no in the only chance we got, no-one listened. The EU might not be bad overall, but it is currently anti-democratic and I don't like that at all. There is barely any media control, there is barely any parliamentary control. I think those are big issues with the current EU.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Neverworld said:


> The Netherlands voted no in the only chance we got, noone listened.


The problem is that the Netherlands is not the important heavyweight member state the Dutch media lets you believe we are. As I said before, the Netherlands is only 3% of the European Union in terms of population, so things will be decided even if we don't agree with it. That happens in national politics as well, just like provincial or municipal politics.


----------



## Neverworld

ChrisZwolle said:


> The problem is that the Netherlands is not the important heavyweight member state the Dutch media lets you believe we are. As I said before, the Netherlands is only 3% of the European Union in terms of population, so things will be decided even if we don't agree with it. That happens in national politics as well, just like provincial or municipal politics.


Of course. However the population in the Netherlands is not alone in its concerns. Again, as long as there is no proper democratic framework in the EU government, it's de facto against the constitution of the Netherlands to go along with it, whether we are small or not.


----------



## Kanadzie

snowdog said:


> I can already see myself driving around my ranch in my white '76 Cadillac Eldorado with the roof down, Ray bans on, cowboyhat .


These "end of era" large convertibles, especially 1975 or 1976 Eldorado are surprisingly easy to buy in the USA, and quite cheap, 5 000 Euro will get a very clean example. It's a funny problem... it was expected the USA would adopt very strict roll-over regulations in 1977 or so, and convertibles would have basically become illegal. People rushed to buy convertibles as "investment" in 1976 particularly, and convertible market in the US basically ended in 1977 (except Mercedes 450 SL). But so many bought the investment, and kept the cars practically undriven, that in fact, the investment sucked as there are too many and so the value is lower than other cars :lol:

I keep meaning to buy one but never get around to it, I have my economical little European, Saab turbo convertible instead, you can fit in the trunk of the Eldorado. The 1976 Eldorado though is kind of weak to drive, 8.2 litre V8 engine with 190 horsepower from anti-pollution controls. The original 1971 8.2 litre was rated 400 gross hp, now that could move :lol: I can't drive my convertible with cowboy hat though, keeps wanting to fly away.

end offtopic


----------



## Surel

g.spinoza said:


> ^^ But NL is still one of the very few net contributors, along with Italy, Germany, Belgium, France, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Austria, UK. All others get from EU more than they pay.


The EU budget is not where the EU money is.

The Netherlands profits mainly from the free movement of goods, services and capital.
http://www.statistics.dnb.nl/index.cgi?lang=uk&todo=Balans


----------



## sotonsi

Surel said:


> The Netherlands profits mainly from the free movement of goods, services and capital.


But as Switzerland shows, you don't need to be in the EU (or even EFTA) to do that. And they get to make their own trade agreements with other countries, enlarging the market they can access with free movement of goods, services and capital much quicker than the EU which is typically very reluctant to do that (only took 40 years for the UK to get back free trade with Canada as the little Europeans kept blocking proposals for EU-Canada free trade agreements hno.

There are alternatives to the European project that give the same, if not better, economic results for countries like the Netherlands and the UK (given, EU figures say that the UK loses economically for being in the EU, on that score it is better off out), without the problems that are why people are sceptical of the EU.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N33 Assen - Zuidbroek*

Very fast construction on twinning N33


----------



## egramsb

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*

Pictures taken near Delft (more in the A4-MD thread):


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Nuclear Security Summit 2014*

It appears that many people took the advice to take a day off today, the enormous congestion that was feared did not materialize. Several motorways are closed or partially closed for the Nuclear Security Summit. There was even less congestion than usual this morning. 

Hopefully this doesn't lead people into thinking they won't have any delays tomorrow, otherwise everyone would hit the road tomorrow and create havoc.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

^^
Driving around The Hague this morning was more like on a Sunday morning than weekday rush hour. I experienced no delays at all, anywhere.


----------



## Slagathor

Same here, it was glorious.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

ChrisZwolle said:


> Very fast construction on twinning N33


You guys sure don't beat around the bush. The Dutch could give Albertans a run for their money with the speed of construction.


----------



## KRX_69

What does mean the green mark in the center of the line?


----------



## Slagathor

It means the maximum speed is 100km/h. No green = 80km/h.


----------



## aswnl

But there are also stretches with green where only 80 is allowed, and locations without greens where 100 of even 50 is allowed. It's part of our sustainable _wrecked_ roadway program...


----------



## snowdog

aswnl said:


> It's part of our sustainable _wrecked_ roadway program...


Duurzaam Veilig Debiel ! :cheers:
As we call it on Flitsservice .


These are typical markings:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Nuclear Security Summit*

People heeded the advice and stayed home or took alternate transport during the Nuclear Security Summit. A44 was closed and A4 partially closed during the NSS motorcades. The extreme congestion that was predicted did not materialize. Overcrowding of public transport did also not occur.

Traffic was down 20% in all of South & North Holland provinces, also on stretches not affected by the NSS closures or detours. On the directly affected routes (either due to partial closures or detours), traffic was down by more than 50%, and this is not vacation time in the Netherlands. It is likely that traffic was down by around 75% between Amsterdam and The Hague. It's notable how A4 carries over 50% less traffic than normally while functioning as the detour of the closed A44.

The VID reports in Dutch: http://vid.nl/Nieuws/article/VID.2014.084.04


----------



## KRX_69

Thanks :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Road authority _Rijkswaterstaat_ is thanking the Dutch motorists for heeding to the warnings and not creating havoc on the motorways due to the Nuclear Security Summit.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Rijnland Route, Leiden*

South Holland province has published the draft environmental impact statement for the _Rijnlandroute_ today. The Rijnland Route is a new expressway along the southern side of Leiden that will dramatically improve east-west traffic in this densely populated region. 

The plan:









They also released more details about the design of the tunnel between A4 and A44;

* length: 2,550 meters
* total length (including ramps): 2,888 meters
* twin-tube
* T10.5 profile (outer diameter dimension of 10.5 meters)
* tunnel clearance of 4.7 meters - no height detection required
* will be constructed with the slurry shield method using a TBM
* 2x2 lanes, no shoulders (roadway width of 7.85 meters between the barriers)
* maximum depth: -32.2 meters
* speed limit: 80 km/h
* 2030 AADT: 57,000 vehicles per day

Forecasted 2030 AADT:


----------



## Coccodrillo

ChrisZwolle said:


> * tunnel clearance of 4.7 meters - no height detection required


What's the truck height limit in the Netherlands?


----------



## snowdog

Will the A44 be able to take the traffic between ''knp. Maaldrift'' and Leiden-West ?

108k cars seems a bit much for 2x2 lanes, or will there be a 2x3 upgrade ?

Also the A4, I think 2x3 lanes is not sufficient. Prins Clausplein > N11 should be 2x4 at least at all times with this new road.


Local roads, especially through Leiden, will be much calmer though! Potentially the N14 and N44 too, anyone coming from the south but needing to be westwards of the N44 will not have to go west so soon.


----------



## keokiracer

snowdog said:


> 108k cars seems a bit much for 2x2 lanes, or will there be a 2x3 upgrade ?


2x4 upgrade.

2 through lanes and 2 weaving lanes between the interchange and the exit.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Coccodrillo said:


> What's the truck height limit in the Netherlands?


4 meters. Most bridges have a clearance of 4.3 meters, so clearances of 4.1 or 4.2 meters are usually indicated with the blue "height sign".


----------



## Neverworld

Good to see an ambitious plan that at the same time makes perfect sense (looking at you A10 South tunnel).


----------



## cees

Neverworld said:


> Good to see an ambitious plan that at the same time makes perfect sense (looking at you A10 South tunnel).


But it's not gonna happen


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Amersfoort*

Construction will begin on A1 near Amersfoort in late 2014. The project will widen the eastbound A1 to three lanes between late 2014 and early 2016. 

It is a short-term solution, because by 2018 A1 will have 2x4 lanes west of Bunschoten, but 2x2 lanes east of it until 2022, when the Hoevelaken motorway interchange upgrade is complete. To prevent a severe bottleneck between 2018 and 2022, the A1 will be widened to three eastbound lanes.

The ultimate project will widen A1 around Amersfoort to 2x4 lanes as well. One bridge across the Zwolle - Amersfoort railway will be replaced by a wider one, with space for 4 lanes and a shoulder, so it won't have to be reconstructed again with the Hoevelaken interchange project. The new bridge will also be 1.5 meters higher to allow higher clearance conform contemporary railway design standards. The new bridge across the railway will have a free clearance of 5.4 m and a ground-to-roof clearance of 5.8 meters.

The additional lane is 5.6 kilometers long.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N33 Assen - Zuidbroek*

Some aerial photos of the N33 twinning project.

1. N33/A7 interchange Zuidbroek









2. New alignment at Veendam









3. new bridge across Stadskanaal









4. Meeden interchange









5. Bareveld









6. Gieten N33/N34 interchange









7. Assen-zuid interchange (A28/N33)


----------



## Suburbanist

that grey soil is nasty


----------



## maral

New Bridge N33 Zuidbroek


----------



## Ypenhof

@ChrisZwolle #10601:
I'm just wondering why it is necessary to widen the A1 between Eemnes and Hoevelaken to 2 x 4 lanes. Wouldn't it be sufficient to widen it to 2 x 3? I mean then the Eemnes interchange doesn't have to be reconstructed, and widening can be realized much faster and cheaper.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The current traffic volumes on A1 are already at 100,000 vehicles per day (even 110,000 at Eembrugge). If you widen it to 2x3 lanes, there is very little spare capacity for future growth, so 2x4 lanes is a more future-proof solution.


----------



## Palance

Ecological maintainance near Vaanplein interchange


----------



## Suburbanist

Does RWS now have state sheep for grazing?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*S100 De Oversteek, Nijmegen*

A video of the City Route *S100* in Nijmegen. The city has introduced City Routes in late 2013. The S100 contains the new "Oversteek", a tied-arch bridge across the Waal River. It is the largest single arch bridge in Europe (or so they say).


----------



## Ypenhof

Chris Zwolle Thanks for your clear explanation about the A1!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Leiden*

New aerial photos of the A4 project at Leiden. It will be completed later this year.

http://defotograaf.eu/blog/a4-burgerveen-2/


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ Why haven't they made it a tunnel outright like in Utrecht?


----------



## Attus

What does it mean: "Langer remweg, nieuw gedek"? (Or something very similar ;-))

A funny experience: A76 -> A4 (Germany), Heerlen -> Aachen. Everybody drives 120 km/h, and just after the sing "Bundesrepublik Deutschland" a Porsche starts accelerating and in 20 seconds disappears


----------



## MattN

Nieuw wegdek, langere remweg? New road surface, longer braking distance.


----------



## Attus

MattN said:


> Nieuw wegdek, langere remweg? New road surface, longer braking distance.


Thanks, it was my guess too.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Those signs are just to make sure they can't be litigated for changed road conditions. Nobody changes their driving behavior after passing such a sign.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ Why haven't they made it a tunnel outright like in Utrecht?


Tunnels longer than 250 meters have to conform to the tunnel law, which is based on, but much more strict than the EU tunnel directive. It means much more expensive safety equipment, ventilation, control centers, dedicated fire department, etc.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ChrisZwolle said:


> Construction will begin on A1 near Amersfoort in late 2014. The project will widen the eastbound A1 to three lanes between late 2014 and early 2016.


Transportation minister Schultz already signed the draft EIS for this project. It will be published on 4 April. 

Usually most of the design phase happens when making the draft EIS, the final EIS is often fairly similar to the draft EIS, with often only small changes (such as ditches, embankments, bike paths, secondary road alignment, etc.) The basic design (i.e. number of lanes, alignment, interchange configuration) is normally set in the draft EIS. 

EIS = Environmental Impact Statement / EIA = Environmental Impact Assessment / TB = Tracébesluit


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*

Construction of A4 between Delft and Petržalka Schiedam.










More photos: http://defotograaf.eu/blog/a4-delft-schiedam-5/


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N33 Assen - Zuidbroek*

A dump truck destroyed one of the bat passages across N33 today. And there are signs in both directions to warn truckers to lower the trailer for this situation specifically.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Philip Morris tobacco plant in Bergen op Zoom will close at the end of 2014. Over 1,200 people will lose their jobs. The Philip Morris plant is located right next to the Zoomland motorway interchange (A4/58), with the loop being called the "_Philip Morris curve_".


----------



## GerFok

Remarkable place to lunch is the title of this photo. Probably it is; because tomorrow the first half of the new aquaduct 'margetha zelle' aquaduct is going to be submerged by the water that surrounds it.


----------



## da_scotty

ChrisZwolle said:


> A dump truck destroyed one of the bat passages across N33 today. And there are signs in both directions to warn truckers to lower the trailer for this situation specifically.


A what...bridge :bash:


----------



## peezet

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Philip Morris tobacco plant in Bergen op Zoom will close at the end of 2014. Over 1,200 people will lose their jobs. The Philip Morris plant is located right next to the Zoomland motorway interchange (A4/58), with the loop being called the "Philip Morris curve".


 I hope there will be a plant / company in the building that renames that curve soon.


----------



## Suburbanist

It is usually bad news when factories close, especially for older workers. However, cigarettes are an overall drain on society, there is no 'safe level' of smoking, and it costs people a lot in terms of health (which other non-smokers have to pay).

So, yeah, I'm not really sad this factory is closing. After lagging North America for years, youth smoking rates in Western Europe are fast declining, the smoking rate of Dutch university students of 2012 is 55% less than that of 1995.

/offtopic


----------



## keokiracer

Suburbanist said:


> So, yeah, I'm not really sad this factory is closing.


Well, I am. Cause my dad lost his job...



Suburbanist said:


> After lagging North America for years, youth smoking rates in Western Europe are fast declining, the smoking rate of Dutch university students of 2012 is 55% less than that of 1995.


Way over 50% of the production in the Bergen op Zoom plant wasn't even for Europe or America, it was for Japan. Like every single cigarette meant for Japan came from this factory.


----------



## Kanadzie

Japanese smoke like crazy, yet they live longest, maybe if you only smoke 1 or 2 pack cigarettes per day, you will die early, but if you smoke maybe 4 or 5 pack in the day, it will kill all the bacteria and you live forever


----------



## piotr71

I am already preparing youtube's clip of A67 and am wondering why exits numbering does not start from one on that motorway. Is it in any way related to Belgian A21 (E34) and possibly could have some connections with former E3 Europoean road? Did Benelux plan common junctions numbers for the European corridors within its borders?


----------



## keokiracer

They linked the exit numbering up with exit numbering of the A2-numbering because the A2 and A67 join eachother at Eindhoven.


----------



## ILTarantino

The Netherlands has the best highway system in the world, no doubt


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Steenbergen*

New aerial photos: http://defotograaf.eu/blog/a4-steenbergen-8/


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interesting move on the signage of N33 near the (future) Zuidbroek motorway interchange, Bremen is signed. This is notable, because elsewhere they use Oldenburg as a focal point. Although they could replace the signage of Oldenburg on A7 with Bremen, this still leads to a discontinuation in Germany, where Bremen does not appear on the signs until the Leer motorway interchange (A28/A31). I do think Bremen is a better destination than Oldenburg though, Bremen is much larger and more important as a hub.


----------



## Kanadzie

We have a similar thing in Canada. In Montreal the signs of A-20 west are "Toronto" starting in downtown. But once cross into Ontario (Hwy 401), you don't see Toronto written on anything including distance signs for a few hundred km until Kingston, despite Kingston being 100 000 population and Toronto 1.8 M...


----------



## Innsertnamehere

^Toronto is 6 million people in the metro and 2.9 in the city municipality..


----------



## Kanadzie

It must have been a long time since I actually read the number on the "welcome to Toronto" signs then  But it makes the eastern 401's silence on Toronto even more odd.

The one that is really surprising is Sauga, like 700k... it is one of the largest cities in Canada despite being... Mississauga.


----------



## piotr71

*A67, full motorway.*

*keokiracer* -


> They linked the exit numbering up with exit numbering of the A2-numbering because the A2 and A67 join eachother at Eindhoven.


----------



## keokiracer

Did you record that on a sunday? Because usually the entire A67 is filled with trucks.


----------



## piotr71

Saturday.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

How manny kilometars of motorways does Netherlands has ?


----------



## da_scotty

2516 kilometers in total!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That figure likely includes concurrencies. If you adjust the figure to avoid double counting you'll get 2436 km.


----------



## da_scotty

^^
I had that first, wasn't sure about the doubles!


----------



## javimix19

Hi, next wednesday I'm going to trip to Amsterdam, or perhaps Groningen to acompany my brother. He is working in Netherlands now. I've never drove so far, (I stay in Germany in my late teens 15 years ago, but I went by bus), but now I go by car, and I'm going to drive. Well, I have fear, because I never drive this distance. 

Well, I never drove at night, so probably my brother starts driving at night in my city (San Sebastian, Basque Country, north of Spain) and then I will drive with light. Probably starting in Paris until Amsterdam.

Well, I know that it is dutch forum, but I would like to know the differences between Spain and Netherlands in terms of driving. If someone of you has driven in Spain, I would like to ask you: Is there a lot of difference? 
I'm writting this because I've read that in Netherlands is a lot of traffic and I'm not used to drive in these conditions.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

From what I gather most foreigners are troubled with the amount of cyclists flying around. Note that especially in student cities like Amsterdam and Groningen cyclists generally ignore most road rules and can be seen making illegal moves, driving on the wrong side, on the sidewalk, left and right around queued cars, through red lights, etc. Also, cyclists often have priority on roundabouts (especially those with cycle lanes on the roundabout). The most problematic are inner city areas, in suburban areas you generally won't have a problem with cyclists because they have their own cycle paths outside traffic.

Other than that driving is not very different. But take note of the speed limit signs as speed limits can change a lot on motorways, especially in the western part of the country. Some motorways have section control (trajectcontrole) which measures the average speed over a longer distance. They are indicated with large signs.


----------



## Wilhem275

If you are not used to drive in strong traffic conditions, my suggestion is to begin your part AFTER Paris...

About driving together with cyclists, remember two important points:
- when you are approaching an intersection with a major road, stop BEFORE the bike lane and look both ways (even if you're just turning right), because bikes may come from both directions
- when turning right, look carefully at your right side mirror and don't turn if bikes are coming from behind your car.

These points may seem obvious to any half-decent Dutch driver, but they are the most common mistakes I see in the interaction between Italian drivers and bike paths, because they're not used to them.

Take your time to understand the road... Dutch traffic is dense but not so fast-paced as in southern countries.


And follow the lane's markings, don't ever cut through them.


----------



## Suburbanist

remember also that the standard speed for regular rural roads is 80km/h, not 90km/h like in Spain.


----------



## piotr71

Mind also priority from the right in town and city's centres.


----------



## Slagathor

javimix19 said:


> Hi, next wednesday I'm going to trip to Amsterdam, or perhaps Groningen to acompany my brother. He is working in Netherlands now. I've never drove so far, (I stay in Germany in my late teens 15 years ago, but I went by bus), but now I go by car, and I'm going to drive. Well, I have fear, because I never drive this distance.
> 
> Well, I never drove at night, so probably my brother starts driving at night in my city (San Sebastian, Basque Country, north of Spain) and then I will drive with light. Probably starting in Paris until Amsterdam.
> 
> Well, I know that it is dutch forum, but I would like to know the differences between Spain and Netherlands in terms of driving. If someone of you has driven in Spain, I would like to ask you: Is there a lot of difference?
> I'm writting this because I've read that in Netherlands is a lot of traffic and I'm not used to drive in these conditions.


1) Mind the cyclists. They behave like Kings and Emperors and you should treat them as such, because the law is not in favor of the car.

2) Stay calm. Dutch traffic is busy, but drivers are generally far more relaxed than in Southern Europe. As long as you drive steadily and use your indicators, people won't mind if you take an extra minute to figure out where you're supposed to be going. Especially when they notice your foreign license plate.


----------



## da_scotty

Oh and if you see this kind of road in rural areas, the Vmax isn't 80, it's 60:


----------



## Slagathor

He's not gonna go there, surely.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

I think javimix19 is completely overwelmed and confused by now, regretting having ever asked :lol:


----------



## Suburbanist

da_scotty said:


> Oh and if you see this kind of road in rural areas, the Vmax isn't 80, it's 60:


Only if signed as a "Zone 60" right?


----------



## keokiracer

Suburbanist said:


> Only if signed as a "Zone 60" right?


Indeed. The road markings in that pic do suggest 60 km/h, but it's only actually 60 km/h if there's a 60 sign (with or without the Zone, only without the 'Zone' another sign has to be placed after every intersection). The road markings are supposed to help drivers identify which speed limit they are supposed to drive, however, due to inconsistency this is not really recommendable. 
But you can still use it as a reminder, just be careful and still look at the signs.


----------



## Surel

I don't like the zone signs outside of a built up area, and even inside it can be sometimes quite confusing. Moreover, the zone signs seem to be growing like mushrooms after a rain these days.


----------



## Suburbanist

Surel said:


> I don't like the zone signs outside of a built up area, and even inside it can be sometimes quite confusing. Moreover, the zone signs seem to be growing like mushrooms after a rain these days.


Last time I drove in Fryslan I noticed the gemeenten put a lot of these "zone 60" and sometimes "zone 30" signs on rural local roads. It is not like they are getting tons of traffic avoiding freeways or anything.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Surel said:


> I don't like the zone signs outside of a built up area, and even inside it can be sometimes quite confusing. Moreover, the zone signs seem to be growing like mushrooms after a rain these days.


60 km/h became the de-facto rural speed limit in the Netherlands. 80 km/h is reserved mostly for provincial roads and some major connecting roads. As far as I know only Japan has such low speed limits.


----------



## Kanadzie

It's really odd considering NL is so flat and the roads are generally wide and straight... at 60 km/h, the road is useless, you can drive faster overland the veld 

Japan at least has some excuses...


----------



## Innsertnamehere

I get the feeling that the roads generally aren't that wide.. at least from my experience they are typically skinny enough that you have to significantly slow down if there is someone coming the other direction.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There has never been a proper design standard for 60 km/h roads. They vary from as little as 3.5 m to over 8 meters wide. Some have cyclists on the road, some have separate bike paths alongside. Some are winding, some are dead straight.


----------



## snowdog

The 60 and 30 zones are the main reason I hate duurzaam veilig.
Any road not designated a ''through road'' gets ruined to a 60 zone, stupid markings, speedbumps or even narrowed and chicanes made.

The UK is much better in that aspect, they keep them NSL (national speed limit, 60mph/100kph, much better than the rubbish 80 km/h even on ''through'' roads here) there and it's the drivers responsibility to drive at a safe speed...


----------



## sotonsteve

snowdog said:


> The 60 and 30 zones are the main reason I hate duurzaam veilig.
> Any road not designated a ''through road'' gets ruined to a 60 zone, stupid markings, speedbumps or even narrowed and chicanes made.
> 
> The UK is much better in that aspect, they keep them NSL (national speed limit, 60mph/100kph, much better than the rubbish 80 km/h even on ''through'' roads here) there and it's the drivers responsibility to drive at a safe speed...


I wouldn't go that far. Our national speed limit is being increasingly erradicated. Normally it is the case that the higher standard main roads get their speed limits reduced to less than the lower standard minor roads. And there is far less consistency than in the Netherlands (motorways excepted), as a country road could be anything from 30km/h up to 100km/h, dependent on local government or just whichever way people in power wake up one morning.


----------



## ChasingCars

*Website A1-A6 project*

The largest road construction project in the Netherlands (SAA) now has its own website. Dutch road authority Rijkswaterstaat calls it an 'online visitor centre'. Here's the website: http://bezoekerscentrum.rijkswaterstaat.nl/SchipholAmsterdamAlmere/#.U0ZSk_l_uao


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Glow in the dark road markings on N329 in the city of Oss.


----------



## da_scotty

Looks awesome! But no center line markings in glow paint?

The total project is still under dimensioned and over-priced, for the same money they should have left the gimmicks and made the road wider and with more conflict-free interchanges! This is one of the more usefull gimmicks though, and internationally this is watched with interest!

The Dutch TV made a short item about it:
http://nos.nl/l/634091 ( I can't embed this )


----------



## javimix19

KIWIKAAS said:


> I think javimix19 is completely overwelmed and confused by now, regretting having ever asked :lol:


Well, first of all thank you for your answers. And I will follow the advice of Wilhem275. I'm going to drive after Paris. My trip is from Paris until Amsterdam. (driving)

I've read your recommedations and I have a dude: in motorways are bikes? Well, sorry for this question, but in Spain bikes are forbidden in motorways.

I know that Netherlands is the country of bikes, lot of people use bikes, but here, for example in my city (San Sebastian, Spain), we have 28 km of cycle lanes, and cyclists don't use streets and roads. It is dangerous for cyclists. They use cycle lanes and if is not possible, sidewalks. Never roads with cars.

But I understand your recommedations, Spain is very different comparing Netherlands, here is impossible to go on cycle in a medium or large city, we haven't got your culture.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A22 Velser Tunnel*

Road authority _Rijkswaterstaat_ reports that the Velser Tunnel near Beverwijk / IJmuiden will undergo a full close in both directions for 9 months in 2016.

The Velser Tunnel carries approximately 65,000 vehicles per day. It is the oldest motorway tunnel in the Netherlands and opened to traffic in 1957. It crosses the North Sea Canal. 

The renovation works include;

* raising the tunnel ceiling by 12 centimeters.
* replacing all tunnel equipment
* more escape doors
* repaving the roadway in both tubes

This way the tunnel will comply to the 2013 Tunnel Law. All tunnels must comply to this law by 2019. It is based on - but a more strict and inclusive version of - the EU tunnel directive.

Shutting down the tunnel for 9 months will create traffic chaos in this area. Although there is another motorway tunnel close by (the A9 Wijker Tunnel), it doesn't allow easy access into Haarlem from the north, as well as access to the large industrial plants of IJmuiden from the south. They will develop detours, alternative transportation and new connectors within the Velsen & Beverwijk motorway interchanges (both are currently splits).


----------



## petertenthije

No bicycles on motorways, and for main roads outside city limits most bicycle paths are seperate from the road as well.

One other bit that is important to consider, the dynamic road signalling _always_ show the local mandatory max speed. Even when there is no red circle displayed.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 & A10, Amsterdam*

Another phase in the large-scale widening of the Schiphol-Amsterdam-Almere project has been completed.

All lanes are now open along A10 between Amstel (A2) and Watergraafsmeer (A1) interchanges. There are 2x4 through lanes plus auxiliary lanes. A new bypass has been constructed for traffic from A10 North to S113, bypassing the Watergraafsmeer interchange. 

More lanes will open along A1 in the next few months. A1 is currently being widened in both directions, to 2x4 lanes between Watergraafsmeer (A10) and Diemen (A9) interchanges. These new lanes will open in May and June this year, thereby completing the first phase of the SAA megaproject.


----------



## Suburbanist

I'm wondering... with this 1st phase complete, will it be faster to travel between Holendrecht and Watergraafsmeer via A2=>A10 instead of via A9=>A1 on peak time?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Utrecht - Driebergen*

Eight-lane A12 east of Utrecht.


----------



## Suburbanist

*A2 Maastricht tunnel;*

New updates on the A2 tunnel project


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Aquaduct Drachtsterweg, Leeuwarden*

A new aqua/educt will be constructed in the "Drachtsterweg" in the city of Leeuwarden. This is the location. It will be the fourth aquaduct near Leeuwarden.


----------



## da_scotty

^^
Except capacity issues, because the bridge seems small, has it any other effect? Is the shipping so intensive that it's needed?


----------



## woutero

The Van Harinxmakanaal is used quite intensively, both for freight and for leisure, opening at least multiple times per day. The problem is that the bridge is under capacity as it is, but when the bridge opens, capacity drops to 0 which means that the nearby intersections get blocked which results in gridlock (especially the busy Drachtsterplein on top in the photo above).

There are currently 4 aqueducts under construction under this 37km canal: 3 in Leeuwarden, 1 in Harlingen.

Leeuwarden has grown to the South side of this canal in the last decades, increasing traffic across its bridges. The city also has a relatively strong daily in- and outflux of workers and a low rate of public transit use.

Commuters in Northern and Eastern urban areas (in 2001...):








Source: CBS
http://www.cbs.nl/NR/rdonlyres/386F5564-D24F-4881-A2AC-DC2B47A0E8A2/0/2004k4v4p037art.pdf


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N359 Hindeloopen*

As far as I am aware this is the only level crossing in the Netherlands where you can drive 100 km/h.


level crossing 100 kmh by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## aswnl

Here's another one...
https://www.google.nl/maps?ll=52.67...=Ics7U771aWsPPT4vZvwFEQ&cbp=12,263.9,,0,-2.57


----------



## da_scotty

Is that used otherwise then the tourist train ?


----------



## Agnette

Railway via Runway (in Kaunas): 

http://goo.gl/maps/kbpmC


----------



## KIWIKAAS

^^ at Gisborne 









sorry....way,way off topic. Agnette's fault


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Leeuwarden*

A part of the "Westelijke Invalsweg" (Western Access Road) of Leeuwarden is almost completed and will open on 12 May.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Caribbean island of Sint Maarten seems to be the first place where signage is installed according to the new guidelines of 2014.


----------



## Road_UK

Courtesy of Rijkswaterstaat? Will they be running the show in the Dutch Caribbean?


----------



## MrAronymous

I imagine Rijkswaterstaat, even though it has the word 'rijk' in it only maintains the roads and road signs in the country of the Netherlands. On Aruba, Curaçao and Sint Maarten the local DOTs do. But I'm guessing the road(sign) rules are sort of the same. There's also no Rijkswaterstaat logo on the signs like we have here on the mainland.


----------



## Road_UK

There isn't. But these signs are clearly manufactured in the Netherlands, as I have noticed a few Dutch motorway signs in stock as well.


----------



## Road_UK

This is a situation I've noticed a while ago as I was waiting for an open bridge. On the left is an old ANWB sign, on the right the new Rijkswaterstaat one. I clearly prefer the old ANWB one, what do you think?

(do zoom if you can't see properly)


----------



## Reivajar

What's behind the roundabout pannels? There is in Sint Maarten any road with a red road number rectangle?

Because I feel the picture hasn't been taken in the Caribbean but in the Netherlands.


----------



## Road_UK

Reivajar said:


> What's behind the roundabout pannels? There is in Sint Maarten any road with a red road number rectangle?
> 
> Because I feel the picture hasn't been taken in the Caribbean but in the Netherlands.


As I was saying earlier: these signs are clearly manufactured in the Netherlands. These motorway signs seems to be leading to Groningen en Utrecht if I am not mistaken.


----------



## Slagathor

My guess is that it's a motorway sign signalling Utrecht and Groningen. 

EDIT: too late!


----------



## Road_UK

Am I invisible?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Road_UK said:


> This is a situation I've noticed a while ago as I was waiting for an open bridge. On the left is an old ANWB sign, on the right the new Rijkswaterstaat one. I clearly prefer the old ANWB one, what do you think?


Both signs are ANWB, on the left is the "old school" sign, which was phased out in the early 2000s in favor of ANWB Redesign, like the sign on the right. However, redesign is now being phased out in the new guidelines of 2014, however it will take a while for the new signs to gain ground. But the ANWB installed over 100,000 directional signs with Redesign in the 2002-2007 period.

Rijkswaterstaat never implemented ANWB Redesign, in fact ANWB lost its monopoly on road signage in the Netherlands. Some provinces later tendered road signage to Tebodin, which also doesn't use Redesign.


----------



## Suburbanist

Apparently, there is a problem with the work conditions of subcontrators of A4 project in Delft. Foreign workers are sometimes hired in violation of Dutch laws, there is a somehow grey area about subcontracting mobile, but site-specific, work. 

Source (Dutch): http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2680...-breken-met-onderaannemer-om-uitbuiting.dhtml


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This happened with A2 in Maastricht as well. The major contractors use international employment agencies that reportedly pay little taxes and require large "housing payments" to be deducted from the salaries. If you look at the paycheck, it seems to conform to Dutch regulation, but these agencies cut off hundreds of euros for dubious costs.


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ I read they were charging up to € 750/month in housing costs for workers earning € 23000/year, which is totally absurd and much more than they would pay had they rented social housing on their own and getting subsidies for low income.


----------



## Reivajar

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ I read they were charging up to € 750/month in housing costs for workers earning € 23000/year, which is totally absurd and much more than they would pay had they rented social housing on their own and getting subsidies for low income.


And is it easy for not Dutch speakers?

For sure, those companies are taking advantage of foreigners who don't know the country and probably the language (in the case of the Netherlands)... a pity, shit happens. However the good point is that apparently they are in the way of solving it.


----------



## MrAronymous

Road_UK said:


> This is a situation I've noticed a while ago as I was waiting for an open bridge. On the left is an old ANWB sign, on the right the new Rijkswaterstaat one. I clearly prefer the old ANWB one, what do you think?
> 
> (do zoom if you can't see properly)


I dislike that they seem to put all the signs high up on a pole, in stead of where your eyes normally focus on; road-level. Seems like the most useless thing ever, but I'm sure there's a reason for it.

Does anyone know how the sign would be positioned according to the new guidelines?


----------



## da_scotty

The main reason I believe is that low signs are blocked by trucks. Don't pin me down on this though.


----------



## Road_UK

I find the Dutch signposting quite unique. High up and visible for everyone to see, unlike those Belgian signs against a wall of a building, obscured by parked vehicles, bikes or human beings.


----------



## Reivajar

da_scotty said:


> The main reason I believe is that low signs are blocked by trucks. Don't pin me down on this though.


Yes, I think the same about high signs. It is really disturbing when a truck or big vehicle hide exactly the sign you need (Murphy's law :lol: ). However, in single lanes roads I found it pretty useless.


----------



## Natomasken

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Caribbean island of Sint Maarten seems to be the first place where signage is installed according to the new guidelines of 2014.


I'd like to learn more about the new guidelines. Can you give any more information about how they're changing, or maybe a link?


----------



## sotonsi

Why is the airport signed both ways? When is Sint Maarten going to get some road numbers, like the other side of the Island has? At least then it would be confusing to see the airport signed two ways.

I also can't quite place the junction on the ground - that side turn from the Marigot road to the airport is confusing me.

Interesting that they don't tell you that Marigot is over a border. Especially as it is a external EU border (Sint Maarten not in the EU, Saint-Martin is in the EU).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Leiden*

A new configuration for A4 at Leiden caused traffic headaches during rush hour. The roadway had three lanes, which is now divided in 2 through lanes 1 local lane. Critics of the local/express setup already warned that 2 through lanes are not sufficient and 1 local lane is not flexible enough. The result: a 12 kilometer traffic jam. While some of the congestion may be attributed to the new situation, it is unlikely to completely resolve after a while.

Unfortunately many politicians want to push for a local/express setup at locations not suited for it. The whole "separating through and local traffic" concept is quite popular among politicians. Traffic engineers are less fond of it, splitting capacity makes the road less flexible to handle peak traffic volumes and is more expensive to maintain and operate (specifically snow-clearing and workzone layout).


----------



## keokiracer

Suburbanist said:


> N262 in Tilburg.


I think you mean N282 , N262 is south of Roosendaal and was recently downgraded from 2x2 to 1x2.
And I'm not sure whether that section of the _Bredaseweg_ actually is N282 or a numberless-road (aka just _Bredaseweg_).


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> A new configuration for A4 at Leiden caused traffic headaches during rush hour. The roadway had three lanes, which is now divided in 2 through lanes 1 local lane. Critics of the local/express setup already warned that 2 through lanes are not sufficient and 1 local lane is not flexible enough. The result: a 12 kilometer traffic jam. While some of the congestion may be attributed to the new situation, it is unlikely to completely resolve after a while.
> 
> Unfortunately many politicians want to push for a local/express setup at locations not suited for it. The whole "separating through and local traffic" concept is quite popular among politicians. Traffic engineers are less fond of it, splitting capacity makes the road less flexible to handle peak traffic volumes and is more expensive to maintain and operate (specifically snow-clearing and workzone layout).



Why did they do it near Leiden though ?

Due to works or so ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The "final" configuration of A4 at Leiden is a local/express configuration with 2 through lanes and 1 local lane to serve two exits (from 2019 also the interchange with _Rijnlandroute_)

This design was finalized in the mid-1990s when traffic volumes were considerably lower than today. As you may remember, the original EIS for this project was annulled by the Council of State around 2007-ish. They had to redo this project and did not want to risk any more delays for the A4 widening to 2x3 lanes at Leiderdorp, so the 1+2+2+1 layout stayed in the design.


----------



## da_scotty

Can it be expanded easily or is it also small dimension wise?


----------



## keokiracer

One extra through lane as well as one extra parallel lane can be added. Space reservation is there.


----------



## Des

keokiracer said:


> One extra through lane as well as one extra parallel lane can be added. Space reservation is there.


They better start adding it now


----------



## snowdog

Pffff, anyone who has driven that route knows that 2x3 lanes are needed for through traffic. 2x2 for ''through'' traffic is not sufficient in that densely populated area.
Space reservation is one thing, the formalities are another...

Before the A4 was widened, I was surprised such a major route was only 2x2...
Politicians love local/express setups, makes no sense at all for 2 exits though, I can see how it has its advantages in some situations, but not there...


----------



## Kanadzie

local express is great but you need at least 3 (or really, at least two) lanes on each carriageway...


----------



## Suburbanist

A pleasant rendezvous on the A2 Maastricht tunnel. Removal of material advanced a lot. This will be a double deck tunnel.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N69 Eindhoven - Belgium*

The province of Noord-Brabant published the design EIS for the new N69 south of Eindhoven. 

The plan is to construct a new 1x2 80 km/h road that bypasses the towns of Valkenswaard and Waalre. The entire road will follow a new alignment to A67 near Veldhoven. 

Unfortunately, it will not be constructed as a four-lane highway as planned in the 1970s. The forecasted AADT is 19,000 vehicles per day, so the new N69 will be pretty much at max capacity.










AADT change:


----------



## da_scotty

Will the alignment be conflict free at the A67 junctions and at other junctions?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Sahara... no wait, Port of Rotterdam.

Maasvlakte Boulevard


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Infrastructure fund*


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ Do these figures include the expenses by watershed boards?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, water boards have their own budget. This also does not include the Delta Fund. The waterways expenses of the Infrastructure Fund are chiefly that of canals, sluices and some port infrastructure funded by the ministry.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N359, Lemmer*

Provincial and municipal governments have decided not to pursue a new alignment for the N359 project around Lemmer. This would cost too much, and have too much impact for relatively limited traffic problems. The main culprit is a bridge across a canal called the "Sylroede" that opens very frequently during the summer yachting season. 

The province of Fryslân wants to invest almost nothing, while the municipality of De Friese Meren wants an aquaduct. The province seem to backtrack its original position to construct an aquaduct, the cost of which was estimated at € 28 million back in 2010.

1. Cancelled variant: N359 north









2. Cancelled variant: N359 south


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Maastricht*

New aerial footage of the A2 Maastricht project.


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> There is a new lobby to construct the last missing link of A4: Benelux - Klaaswaal south of Rotterdam. It consists of six Dutch and Belgian provinces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> map:


Due to an accident which involved a truck on fire in the Heinenoordtunnel (A29) has been closed in both directions. The direction to the south is where the accident happened and will not open before tomorrow may 22nd at 06:00 hours. Sadly enough 1 fatality was recorder after the accident.

It shows the vulnerability of the highways around Rotterdam where still major improvements are due. Especially the missing link in the A4 to the South is painfully felt here. Between the Haringsvlietdam and the Drechttunnel near Dordrecht there is no real acceptable alternative to reach the Southern part of the Province Zuid-Holland and to reach the provinces Zeeland en Brabant. 

Luckily the construction of the A4-MD (a 7 km stretch between Schiedam/Vlaardingen and Delft, which is another missing link) is now well underway with only a "slight delay" of just over 45 years (!) and will open at the end of 2015 instead of 1970!!! :nuts: Still to be build is the Blankenburgtunnel between Rozenburg and Maassluis in the western part of the region.

That A4-South link is badly needed. It is as simple as that. The effects of the missing link can easily be seen here:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think a closure like this would have created traffic problems in any country.

But this route has no good alternatives. The N217 was entirely jammed from A29 to A16, the reported delay was 2 hours on that route, and then the traffic jam on A16 as well... In addition, there are road works with lane closures on A16, so even if you wanted to avoid A29, you still have to get into traffic congestion.

An extended A4 would have definitely helped to improve access. The A29 Heinenoord Tunnel is the only tunnel from the Hoekse Waard area to Rotterdam. There is a small ferry at Spijkenisse, but is not designed for any major traffic volumes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A8 Amsterdam - Westzaan*

I filmed the A8 in both directions last weekend. It begins on the A5 viaduct, then through the new Coen Tunnel, and onto the widened A8. I turned around at Westzaan and then proceeded across the A8 to Amsterdam.

And oh yes, Poland is not the only country with huge noise barriers


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N261 Tilburg - Waalwijk*

Construction works to rebuild N261 into a controlled-access expressway are taking shape.










Note that the left carriageway is split into two separate through lanes.









A59-N261 interchange.


----------



## MichiH

ChrisZwolle said:


> The second and largest contract of the "Centrale As" project in Friesland province has been awarded. The € 46.7 million contract will construct a 2x2 100 km/h expressway and a new aqueduct underneath the Princes Margriet Canal. The second contract is the center part of the project, around Burgum.


The northern-most 7km section is u/c. Has the construction of the 2nd section already been started?



ChrisZwolle said:


> The tender procedure for the widening of the N62 in Zeeland province has started. The contract will be awarded in early 2014 and full-scale *construction will begin in April/May 2014*.


Has the construction already been started?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

MichiH said:


> The northern-most 7km section is u/c. Has the construction of the 2nd section already been started?


It is planned to begin in June. 



> Has the construction already been started?


There are two segments of N62 to be widened, north and south of the Westerschelde Tunnel.

Construction on twinning the "Sloeweg" (northern) part is suppose to begin in "early 2014",1 but I haven't read about it since.

The twinning of the "Tractaatweg" (southern) part will begin in mid-2015 2 and should be completed by early 2017.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*

A few photos of the A4 at Schiedam I took on Saturday. The Netherlands held the "day of construction", where you can visit construction sites. Over 125,000 people attended.

1. Entering the southbound tube of the 2.0 km Tunnel Schiedam.

A4 Tunnel Schiedam 24-05-2014-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

2. In the southbound tube. It is designed for 4 lanes.

A4 Tunnel Schiedam 24-05-2014-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

3. Looking north towards Delft.

A4 Tunnel Schiedam 24-05-2014-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

4. View across the tunnel / coffin.

A4 Tunnel Schiedam 24-05-2014-7 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

5. Zoom out.

A4 Tunnel Schiedam 24-05-2014-8 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N35, Nijverdal*

A photo of the N35 Tunnel in Nijverdal, during the "construction day" (24/5). I visited this project as well, but didn't have time to get in line for the basket crane because I had to drive across the country to Schiedam.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N210 Rotterdam - Krimpen*

A video of the N210 in suburban Rotterdam, through Capelle & Krimpen aan den IJssel. It features the Van Brienenoord Bridge and the Algera Bridge. The latter bridge has the highest intensity/capacity value of any road in the Netherlands.


----------



## snowdog

Catastrophic corridor that has to be avoided like the plague anywhere between 4 and 6.30 pm.


Why it's not a a grade separated road is beyond me, especially traffic going through to Nieuwerkerk and Capelle is hindered badly by the traffic to the Krimperwaard.

And those bus lanes on the Rijckevorstelweg, ugh, what a waste of good asphalt. Same for the retarded rule that buses can go 70 on the Algeraweg but cars can only go 50, like those bus ****ers aren't noisy. Also the fault of the stupid poverty flats and NIMBY Whingers on the Revius and Veleriusrondeel.

I've worked in the stormpolder in the past, and it's very very annoying to travel there. These days I'm still bothered by the traffic there sometimes on the Rijckevorstelweg, my mum lives there in the neighborhood '''s Gravenland''. 


Kralingseplein should be a fully grade separated interchange too, the chaos that ensues there is unbelievable sometimes ( though mostly caused by a congested A16).


----------



## Road_UK

So... Snowdog... 

What else do you do in life apart from complaining winching and moaning about infrastructure and slow drivers? 

Have you considered moving somewhere else if you don't like the (superior) roads in your country?


----------



## snowdog

Road_UK said:


> So... Snowdog...
> 
> What else do you do in life apart from complaining winching and moaning about infrastructure and slow drivers?
> 
> Have you considered moving somewhere else if you don't like the (superior) roads in your country?


Country? I'm on about the local roads, R'dam North and west is an infrastructural catastrophe. I'll gladly move to an area like Friesland at some point to have decent infra for the number of people that live there, unlike near R'dam.

The reason I hate nimby whingers an complain about them is that they are mostly people who don't understand that some have to use those congested roads daily for work, like me... More than 200.000 cars worth of people in the case of the A16.


----------



## da_scotty

Snowdog... take a short walk around the block, calm down and relax.. like seriously..


----------



## ChrisZwolle

As I indicated, the Algera Bridge is the most congested stretch of roadway in the Netherlands. It carries 50,000 vehicles per day on 2 lanes plus a reversible lane. It has the highest intensity/capacity ratio of any road in the Netherlands. 

All of Krimpen and Nederlek municipalities (44,000 people) depend on this single crossing to get anywhere. Since all jobs and other functions are west, into the Rotterdam area, there is a huge flow of traffic outbound in the morning and inbound in the evening. 

They really need to replace the outdated 1958 bridge with a new four-lane bridge (perhaps even six lanes, with bus lanes). I also think there should be a flyover or dive-under at the Capelseplein where N210 and N219 meet.

Another option is to extend the A38 from Ridderkerk to Krimpen via a tunnel under the Maas River. This would provide another outlet of the Krimpen area, and shorten driving distance to the southern part of the Rotterdam metro area.


----------



## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> The latter bridge has the highest intensity/capacity value of any road in the Netherlands.


Is that data for the section roundabout - exit just before the bridge or actually the data ON the bridge? Cause if that's 50.000 there... :nuts:
What's the intensity/capacity value there? Something like 2.5?!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's the volume on the bridge. The I/C value is 1.5. Usually 0.7 - 0.9 is considered saturated and 0.9+ is significantly congested. So you can imagine how bad the situation is at this bridge.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N33 Zuidbroek - Appingedam*

The province of Groningen presented a plan to twin the N33 from Zuidbroek (A7) to Appingedam. They want to fund this project in the amount of € 78 million. This would turn this part of N33 into a 2x2, 100 km/h, controlled-access expressway.

The national government is not interested in this project, because the traffic volumes of 9,000 - 10,000 vehicles per day do not warrant a twinning of N33.


----------



## postHUMANproject

As a former taxi driver in this area, i can assure you this bottle neck is the biggest congestion horror of the Rijnmond area, by far. The bridge, which opens frequently, should be replaced with a 4lane tunnel, at least :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4, Schiedam*

New aerial photos of the A4 at Schiedam.

more photos here









By De Fotograaf


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ Do they have a specific date (week or month) for planned opening?


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> As I indicated, the Algera Bridge is the most congested stretch of roadway in the Netherlands. It carries 50,000 vehicles per day on 2 lanes plus a reversible lane. It has the highest intensity/capacity ratio of any road in the Netherlands.
> 
> All of Krimpen and Nederlek municipalities (44,000 people) depend on this single crossing to get anywhere. Since all jobs and other functions are west, into the Rotterdam area, there is a huge flow of traffic outbound in the morning and inbound in the evening.
> 
> They really need to replace the outdated 1958 bridge with a new four-lane bridge (perhaps even six lanes, with bus lanes). I also think there should be a flyover or dive-under at the Capelseplein where N210 and N219 meet.
> 
> *Another option is to extend the A38 from Ridderkerk to Krimpen via a tunnel under the Maas River. This would provide another outlet of the Krimpen area, and shorten driving distance to the southern part of the Rotterdam metro area.*


That option is by far the best one. It would relieve the whole corridors N210 & N219 and the Kralingeplein and A16-Van Brienenoordbrug. That connection is badly needed but as usual the Rotterdam Metropolitan Area always seems to come last when the spreading of funds to infrastructural projects is concerned.

Maybe that impression is incorrect on my part, but compared to other parts in the country where roads are being upgraded or connections made where there is much less pressure on the infrastructure, it just seems that way.



Suburbanist said:


> ^^ Do they have a specific date (week or month) for planned opening?


They still plan on "the end of 2015" and so far they seem to be working according to (or a bit faster) than planned.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

EPA001 said:


> Maybe that impression is incorrect on my part, but compared to other parts in the country where roads are being upgraded or connections made where there is much less pressure on the infrastructure, it just seems that way.


Rotterdam's infrastructure is more expensive to upgrade. It needs the most new motorway routes while having to deal with numerous rivers. 

A16 and A20 are difficult to upgrade on their current routes, that is why A13-A16 is being developed, and A4 + A24 on the west side of Rotterdam. The Benelux Tunnel was expanded back in 2002. The A15 widening will wrap up next year. 

Another problem with Rotterdam is the need for new motorway routes, which are politically more difficult than a road widening. Especially the PvdA is sensitive for vocal minorities (anti-road clubs) and tends to miss the bigger picture. I don't understand why left-wing parties aren't more pro-roads because the bulk of their electorate have blue-collar jobs which are often only accessible by car. Back in the 1960s Labor was much more pro-roads than they are today.


----------



## Batavier

ChrisZwolle said:


> Rotterdam's infrastructure is more expensive to upgrade. It needs the most new motorway routes while having to deal with numerous rivers.
> 
> A16 and A20 are difficult to upgrade on their current routes, that is why A13-A16 is being developed, and A4 + A24 on the west side of Rotterdam. The Benelux Tunnel was expanded back in 2002. The A15 widening will wrap up next year.


I was wondering, do you if anything is known about the road numbering for the A13/A16? Could it also become A24? 

Everyone who looks on the map of Rotterdam can see that the A24 and the A13/A16 are the beginning of a new northern ring road of Rotterdam, which could be good for reducing the congestion within the greater urban area.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

An A24 as a northern arc of Rotterdam was actually planned in the 1970s. However, it is explicitely not planned today. There is no space for interchanges with A4 and A13. 

Back in the days A24 was even planned to extend all the way to A2 at Nieuwegein.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another example of pointless downgrading... replacing an interchange with traffic lights in Enschede.


----------



## Spookvlieger

Why would they do that? Now all traffic has to halt and pull up again...pollution anyone?


----------



## Suburbanist

joshsam said:


> Why would they do that? Now all traffic has to halt and pull up again...pollution anyone?


The argument was that the overpass harmed the views and experience of visitors arriving at the university (there is a major campus right there).


----------



## Spookvlieger

lol, it's not even a large bridge and the overpass would mostly look like a grass hill from all sides?


----------



## Suburbanist

joshsam said:


> lol, it's not even a large bridge and the overpass would mostly look like a grass hill from all sides?


Google Maps still has the old imagery there: http://goo.gl/maps/BdL0g


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N33 Assen - Zuidbroek*

Another stretch of four-lane expressway opened to traffic on Monday 26/5. From Gieten to Veendam-Zuid. There are now 2x2 lanes for 27 km.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N33*

You can see how fast they are reconstructing N33.

I took this photo on 30 March 2014:

N33 Bareveld-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

This photo was taken on 25 May 2014, less than two months later:


----------



## maral

ChrisZwolle said:


> The province of Groningen presented a plan to twin the N33 from Zuidbroek (A7) to Appingedam. They want to fund this project in the amount of € 78 million. This would turn this part of N33 into a 2x2, 100 km/h, controlled-access expressway.
> 
> The national government is not interested in this project, because the traffic volumes of 9,000 - 10,000 vehicles per day do not warrant a twinning of N33.


We have got some money to spend overhere, that shows if you twin this part for ten's of millions of Euro's. Twinning this part is trying to get better connections to the ports of Delfzijl and Eemshaven hoping it will give it a boost as well.
Not sure if this is money well spend though.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15, Botlek Bridge, Rotterdam*

I took this photo last Saturday.


Botlekbrug 24-05-2014 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

There's also a new elevated highway under construction that connects the Hartel Bridge with the Botlek Bridge.

A15 Spijkenisse by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A10, Coen Tunnel, Amsterdam*

The Coen Tunnel will close for 4 days in both directions for the final works. It will be closed from 16/7 and reopen op 21/7. After that, full capacity through the tunnel will be available. That means the works to construct a second twin-tube tunnel are completed, and also means the reversible lanes will go into operation. Peak hour capacity will then be increased from 2 to 5 lanes in the peak direction (inbound in the morning and outbound in the afternoon).


----------



## Pietruch

joshsam said:


> Why would they do that? Now all traffic has to halt and pull up again...pollution anyone?


They just don't wont people use their cars between Hengelo and Enchede. There is good connection by train, by bus (BRT), even by bike (only 8km between city centers, more comfortable with new F35 fietssnelweg).

Less cars, less pollution. Even if you have less pollution with overpass on this crossing, you have bigger traffic on the other intersection without overpass and more pollution there...




I thought everyone in Netherlands heard about Sustainable transport...


----------



## verreme

^^ Do you really think one more traffic light is disencouraging car usage? To me it would just be like another annoying stop. I don't think anyone will quit using their car because there's one more stoplight.

Pollution and fuel consumption issues, however, look more serious to me.


----------



## snowdog

verreme said:


> ^^ Do you really think one more traffic light is disencouraging car usage? To me it would just be like another annoying stop. I don't think anyone will quit using their car because there's one more stoplight.
> 
> Pollution and fuel consumption issues, however, look more serious to me.


Political correctness, left wing always thinks not adding any asphalt or enforcing any anti mobility rules will discourage people to drive. Statistics show otherwise, therefore they are doing nothing but ''bullying'' the drivers. Anti social anti car idiots... Blinded by their political correctness. NIMBY should never prevail over economic reasons. hno:

But what can you do eh ? Public transport is way to slow an inefficient, not to mention, STILL more expensive than private transport.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Amsterdam - Utrecht*

A video of A2 from Amsterdam to Utrecht.

This motorway would be so much more pleasant to drive if it had a 120 or 130 km/h speed limit. Right now everybody is sticking to 95-100 km/h. Even when this video is sped up 4 x, it still seems like very slow passing...


----------



## Suburbanist

*Increased fines for tachograph tampering*

Fines for driving trucks in violation of hours and rest regulations, usually by falsifying registers on the tachograph, will be sharply increased. 

Drivers will now pay € 1500 (instead of € 550). Truck fleet companies will pay € 4400 (instead of € 1300).



> De boetes voor vrachtwagenchauffeurs en hun werkgever die sjoemelen met de registratie van rust- en rijtijden gaan zaterdag fors omhoog. Voor chauffeurs die knoeien met de digitale tachograaf gaat de boete omhoog van 550 naar 1500 euro. Voor de werkgevers gaat de boete van 1300 of 2200 euro naar 4400 euro.
> 
> Het is belangrijk voor de verkeersveiligheid en hun eigen gezondheid dat chauffeurs zich aan de rijtijden houden, zegt de Inspectie Leefomgeving en Transport. Daarnaast leidt fraude met de tachograaf tot oneerlijke concurrentie met bedrijven die zich wel aan de wet houden.


Source: NOS


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The € 1500 fine is for tampering with the tachograph, not for exceeding the driver's working hours. 

This all boils down to enforcement. You can state heavy fines, but if there is virtually no chance of being checked, it's still profitable to tamper with the tachograph.


----------



## Suburbanist

I think the EU should develop an EU-wide "black box" mandate and protocol for trucks and buses. A device that is really difficult to tamper, which also registers data traffic for like 90 days. That way, even spotty checks can theoretically catch violators, even if they are in other country.

Some countries' traffic law enforcement fine drivers exceeding hours abroad, others don't.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> Some countries' traffic law enforcement fine drivers exceeding hours abroad, others don't.


Enforcement of driving hours is an easy cash cow. The fines are high, but I don't think sending out heavy fines for driving 20 minutes over the limit really makes a difference for traffic safety. It's different of course, if there's continuous or blatant driving over the limits.

On the other hand, small delivery vans are not subject to the Driver's working hours and can drive all day long if they want to. Research shows that driver's fatigue strongly increases after 10 - 11 hours of driving in one day, no matter if you drive a semi truck or a van or car.


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> An interesting turn of events with the completed widening of A2 between 's-Hertogenbosch and Eindhoven.
> 
> An EIS was published in 2011 for the widening of A2 from 2x2 to 2x3 lanes between 's-Hertogenbosch and Eindhoven. It was found that the widening could impact a natura 2000 area. They decided to mitigate that by enlarging the habitat.
> However, the European Court of Justice said that this measure would not mitigate the loss of habitat sufficiently, making the widening potentially illegal.
> 
> But the interesting part is that new calculations and measures show that nitrogen deposits are structurally lower than in 2011, and therefor any mitigation to reduce impact on the natura 2000 area is unnecessary, thereby entirely bypassing the European Court of Justice verdict, making it irrelevant.


This shows that widening the roads (+ less polluting cars) does have a positive impact on the environment compared to roads with lots of traffic jams because they are too small. Perfect to hear this news.


----------



## Wilhem275

About A1 @Muiderberg: I guess the new rail bridge will be built on one side of the old one.

But it's in the middle of two bends, so they will have to redesign the alignment of a rather long stretch, including nearby bridges.

Doesn't seem likely that they'll just replace it shutting down the line...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Wilhem275 said:


> About A1 @Muiderberg: I guess the new rail bridge will be built on one side of the old one.


It wouldn't surprise me if they build the arch bridge on a nearby site and then move it into position in a weekend. That way they don't have to realign the railroad.


----------



## Wilhem275

I would think the same, but that trick doesn't seems easy for the old bridge.

Also, that kind of quick "bridge swap" is possible when the foundations are kept in place, but such a wide arch bridge needs a completely different support than the existing beams.
This may actually be solved by the fact that the arches will be larger than the existing platform (which is roughly large as two tracks), so the foundations may be built beside the operative bridge.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Leiden - Den Haag*

The A4 will be widened to 2x4 lanes between the future Vlietland interchange south of Leiden and the Leidschendam interchange. The forecasted AADT on this stretch is 178,000 vehicles per day.


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ Will that many people really stop using A44/N44?


----------



## Batavier

I was wondering, who decides names of interchanges in the Netherlands? Is it Rijkswaterstaat, the province, the municipality or someone else? 

The new interchange Vlietland, which is a quite easy name has been mentioned in provincial reports as "knooppunt zelde van passe" named after the windmill nearby and to me sounds quite ridiculous.


----------



## Batavier

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ Will that many people really stop using A44/N44?


When the Rijnlandroute is finished it is much easier to go from the A44 to the A4, I think that might be the reason for the expected lowering of usage of the A44.


----------



## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> The A4 will be widened to 2x4 lanes between the future Vlietland interchange south of Leiden and the Leidschendam interchange. The forecasted AADT on this stretch is 178,000 vehicles per day.


How exactly would the Rijnlandroute and a simple widening of one lane extra on the A4 cause a 14% drop of traffic on the N206 from Zoetermeer?

Also noticable that the N206 through Leiden does not see a >10% decrease in traffic. I was expecting that route to get more relief (as in at least 10% decrease) since it's the main route from A44 to A4 and vice versa now.


----------



## Suburbanist

It would be better to invest on building some tunnels to ultimately extend A44 to the A12 terminus in Den Haag.


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> The A4 will be widened to 2x4 lanes between the future Vlietland interchange south of Leiden and the Leidschendam interchange. The forecasted AADT on this stretch is 178,000 vehicles per day.


No concrete plans for the widening of the A4-section between the future Vlietland interchange and Burgerveen? :dunno: That widening is badly needed as well. The section already mostly feels like a missing link in the A4. Especially since the new section at Leiderdorp and the aquaduct could cope (theoretically) with 2 x 6 lanes. But only 2+1 in either direction will be built in the current planned "final situation"


----------



## stofzuiger

ChrisZwolle said:


> The new four-lane bridge across the Zuid-Willemsvaart Canal near 's-Hertogenbosch opened to traffic this morning.


This bridge is part of the Zuid-Willemsvaart bypass project, located in between 's-Hertogenbosch and Rosmalen. The project consists of 10 traffic bridges, 1 railroad bridge, 2 sluices, 4 pumping stations and 4 sifons. 

Project overview:









"Nijvelaar bridge" (largest bridge of the project) under construction, before and after photo:









Official project photo updates can be found here: www.willemsunie.com


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A10 Coen Tunnel, Amsterdam*

The 5-year project to expand the capacity of the Coen Tunnel in Amsterdam will be coming to an end this weekend.

A10 is closed in both directions between Wednesday 9 pm and Monday 5 am. They need a 100+ hour closure to provide the final configuration. The renovated 1966 tunnel and reversible lanes will be connected to the final road layout. 

Traffic is detoured via the Zeeburg Tunnel during the closure. They expect significant traffic impact despite the vacation. 

Starting Monday 21 July, one of the biggest bottlenecks in the Netherlands will be history.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A7/N33 Zuidbroek interchange*

The new Zuidbroek motorway interchange (A7/N33) in Groningen province. The direct connector serves traffic from south (Veendam) to west (Groningen City).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Muiden Aquaduct*

There has been massive pile-driving going on at the new Muiden Aquaduct over the past couple of weeks. 2,410 piles have been driven so far. The new aquaduct will feature 12 lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A16 Van Brienenoord Bridge, Rotterdam*

Construction of the second Van Brienenoord Bridge in Rotterdam in 1989.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A6/A7 Knooppunt Joure*

The Council of State dismissed all appeals against the construction of the new interchange today. That means construction can proceed! :cheers:



ChrisZwolle said:


> The Joure motorway interchange (A6/A7) that will be replaced by a direct connector interchange in the next few years. It is the last remaining at-grade motorway-to-motorway interchange (though one could qualify Julianaplein for that as well). The Leenderheide & Hooipolder interchanges are partially at-grade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Future interchange:
> 
> Impressie nieuwe knooppunt by knooppuntjoure, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A10, Coen Tunnel, Amsterdam*

An English-language video of the new Coen Tunnel layout an possible routes.


----------



## Suburbanist

Apparently there will be a "Carmageddon" in Amsterdam this weekend, with 3 major tunnels closed: the Coentunnel and Zeeburgertunnel on A10 and the Piet Heintunnel - a city tunnel that is nonetheless important to traffic.


----------



## keokiracer

Suburbanist said:


> Apparently there will be a "Carmageddon" in Amsterdam this weekend, with 3 major tunnels closed: the Coentunnel and Zeeburgertunnel on A10 and the Piet Heintunnel - a city tunnel that is nonetheless important to traffic.


Zeeburgertunnel isn't going to be closed. Only Piet-Heintunnel and Coentunnel.

There are a load of live streaming traffic cams on which you can watch the roadworks at the Coentunnel:
http://www.vid.nl/Camera/stream/cam_3
http://www.vid.nl/Camera/stream/cam_46
http://www.vid.nl/Camera/stream/cam_41

And on the detour route (through Zeeburgertunnel)
http://www.vid.nl/Camera/stream/cam_5
http://www.vid.nl/Camera/stream/cam_61


----------



## ChrisZwolle

An oversized transport was en route along A27 near Gorinchem, but they found out they don't fit across the Merwede Bridge, which is one of the narrowest motorway bridges in the Netherlands. They are now backing up on the motorway. Police is shutting down traffic to let the convoy back up on the ramp.


----------



## keokiracer

Which you can see here:
http://www.vid.nl/Camera/stream/cam_15

(as long as you're quick, or else they'll have backed it up already )


----------



## Reivajar

:lol: :crazy:

I though they planned carefully this kind of special transports along the whole expected route previously to make sure everything is OK for fitting the oversized load... :? Kind of lack of prevision?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Works for the A9 motorway at Badhoevedorp has caused an unusual slide. There was an embankment waiting to settle, but it has pushed the entire parallel N232 away. The whole area has shifted outwards.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15, Botlek Bridge, Rotterdam*

The bridge decks for the Botlek Bridge in Rotterdam are being assembled at a quay nearby.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N50 Zwolle - Emmeloord*

The environmental impact assessment has been published for the widening of 5.5 kilometer of N50 between Ens and the Emmeloord motorway interchange. It includes a new partial interchange south of Emmeloord. It will be a 2x2, 100 km/h expressway. Construction will begin in 2015.


----------



## keokiracer

Reivajar said:


> :lol: :crazy:
> 
> I though they planned carefully this kind of special transports along the whole expected route previously to make sure everything is OK for fitting the oversized load... :? Kind of lack of prevision?


They had another route planned but at the last second the bridges wouldn't be able to handle the weight, they choose to drive straight ahead at the interchange and then got stuck. After re-measuring the originally planned route would be able to hold the weight of the load so they continued along that route anyway (after backing up 2 kms )


----------



## MrAronymous

ChrisZwolle said:


> The bridge decks for the Botlek Bridge in Rotterdam are being assembled at a quay nearby.


Oh look, a nice wide red cycle path


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Ede - Arnhem*

Rijkswaterstaat has contracted the widening of A12 between Ede and Grijsoord motorway interchange (A50) near Arnhem. There will be 2x3 lanes. It is an 11 kilometer stretch of motorway that was built in the 1950s. The contract includes both the widening and maintenance until 2032.

Two bridges will have to be replaced / widened. The A12 bridge across the Utrecht - Arnhem railway will be widened to accommodate the new lanes, and the bridge in the Oosterbeek interchange will be entirely replaced.

The widening will start in early 2015 and is planned for completion in late 2016.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A10 Coen Tunnel, Amsterdam*

The renovated Coen Tunnel reopened to traffic this morning, with full 8-lane capacity. The € 2.1 billion project to build a new tunnel, a new 10 kilometer motorway (A5) and a widened A8 is now completed after 5 years of construction.

An official opening ceremony was scrapped due to the shoot-down of flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine. 


Deserted road by Stewart Newdale, der Maulwürfel, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

4 Rijkswaterstaat road inspector trucks have been destroyed in crashes in the last 10 days. Luckily, none of the inspectors got injured, because they were out of their trucks, assisting breakdowns and incidents. All accidents were caused by motorists or truckers not paying attention *at all* (how can you miss a red cross over the lane and flashing lights?)


----------



## Suburbanist

I read a piece arguing that recent car and truck models (after 2010) isolate too much outside noise to the point they reduce awareness of the driver it (s)he turns up music, hands-free phone speaker etc. Not sure I buy the idea, though - I think lack of a constant rumbling noise from wind and engine make driving less tiring to the senses.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Erasmus Bridge*

The Erasmus Bridge in Rotterdam. Completed 1996.


----------



## Kaaskop

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ Yeah, some proposed skyscrapers on Zuidas are still on hold, their land plots fenced out and no signs of major construction.


Actually, several large projects have commenced on the Zuidas recently and more will start the coming year. 

http://www.amsterdam.nl/zuidas/documenten-indexen/planningen/virtuele-map/realisatie-zuidas/


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> 4 Rijkswaterstaat road inspector trucks have been destroyed in crashes in the last 10 days. Luckily, none of the inspectors got injured, because they were out of their trucks, assisting breakdowns and incidents. *All accidents were caused by motorists or truckers not paying attention *at all** (how can you miss a red cross over the lane and flashing lights?)


Which is actually frightening. It shows that many people on the roads indeed hardly pay any attention at all at what they are doing and where they are driving and what the situation on the road is. Just no concentration or they are doing all kinds of other things which have nothing to do with driving a car or truck. hno:

Luckily none of the Rijkswaterstaat employees was hurt. But it easily could have been much worse.


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> 4 Rijkswaterstaat road inspector trucks have been destroyed in crashes in the last 10 days. Luckily, none of the inspectors got injured, because they were out of their trucks, assisting breakdowns and incidents. All accidents were caused by motorists or truckers not paying attention *at all* (*how can you miss a red cross over the lane and flashing lights?*)
> 
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bs9ZhLfCMAE7AQJ.jpg:large[img]
> 
> [img]http://img.rtvoost.nl/T3/213295.jpg[img][/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> You mean these ?
> 
> [MEDIA=youtube]7GSUInpiggA[/MEDIA]
> [MEDIA=youtube]YykuPwZZCVI[/MEDIA]
> 
> Arrows telling you to drive on the hard shoulder ( in the 2nd vid where the road inspector car is, look at 0:11 ) ?
> 
> No excuse of course to not look forward where you're bloody going...
> 
> [QUOTE]Which is actually frightening. It shows that many people on the roads indeed hardly pay any attention at all at what they are doing and where they are driving and what the situation on the road is. Just no concentration or they are doing all kinds of other things which have nothing to do with driving a car or truck. [/QUOTE]
> I bet they all know they kept to the speed limit though! ''Snelheidsweters'' :bash::ohno:.
> 
> Focus should be on the road and on traffic, not the ****ing number on your dash... And yeah, if you have such low speed limits that driving becomes boring, people start playing with their phones/makeup/whatever instead of driving! Like most motorways in the Rampstad with silly limits outside busy hours ( 80, 100 km/h)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A2 and A27 will be temporarily closed from Eindhoven to Hilversum (100 km) to allow a convoy of hearses (funeral limousines) to pass from Eindhoven Airport to a military base in Hilversum. These are some of the victims of the MH17 crash in Ukraine.

The motorway closures will be short term, and only within the vicinity of the convoy, sort of like a rolling road block.


----------



## Kaaskop

An one minute silence will be held when the first C-130 airplane with the remains of the victims of the MH17 crash arrives at Eindhoven Airport. Rijkswaterstaat advices not to stop on the highway shoulders during this moment of silence due to safety reasons.

All public transport and air traffic (take-off and landing) will be temporarily stopped during this moment of silence.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N983 Aduard*

The Council of State has rejected all appeals against the zoning plan of the N983 bypass of Aduard in Groningen province.

The new bypass will be located east of Aduard, and includes a new vertical-lift bridge across the canal, and a diamond interchange with N355. Construction will likely begin next year.

N355-N983 interchange:









New bridge at Aduard:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N345 Voorst*

The Council of State has rejected all appeals against the construction of a new bypass of the town of Voorst in Gelderland province, part of the N345 provincial road (Zutphen - Apeldoorn).


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

They are the same in my opinion .


----------



## Godius

They should have made the font size of the 400m marking a bit larger on the new sign. It looks like the 400m is even more unreadable on the new sign.


----------



## Suburbanist

Ni3lS said:


> Why the F would they want to change it again? How much money is being pissed away because of this?


I don't think they will replace signs at whim, instead, they will replace old signs with new designs when time comes to retrofit it. It is not like a mandatory sign (speed limit) for instance.


----------



## italystf

Google shows a mysterious road over the sea near the Europoort (Rotterdam). It' impossible to see images of it. Does it really exists or is it a mistake? https://www.google.com/maps/dir/51....m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!4m4!1m1!4e1!1m1!4e1?hl=en


----------



## MichiH

^^ It exists: http://old.wikimapia.org/#lat=51.9498497&lon=4.0391225&z=13&l=0&m=o.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, that is part of 'Maasvlakte 2', an extension of the Maasvlakte port area (literally; Meuse plains). A/N15 runs through 50 kilometers of hard core industrial areas.


----------



## Wilhem275

A friend had to travel there to deliver something, and received instructions NOT to follow the GPS


----------



## KIWIKAAS

I like the beach out there. Not as good as the old one (which had a nice dune area) but still good.
Driving the N15 at the weekend is a very relaxed trip with very light traffic on an excellent road.


----------



## Slagathor

italystf said:


> Google shows a mysterious road over the sea near the Europoort (Rotterdam). It' impossible to see images of it. Does it really exists or is it a mistake? https://www.google.com/maps/dir/51....m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!4m4!1m1!4e1!1m1!4e1?hl=en


As always with new land freshly claimed from the sea, it takes Google a while to catch up. We're used to it.


----------



## Jeroen669

Wilhem275 said:


> A friend had to travel there to deliver something, and received instructions NOT to follow the GPS


The easiest way to find your way in the harbours is to know the harbour number of your adress. These numbers are consequently signed. And indeed: ignore your GPS.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Amsterdam*

*Project A9 Gaasperdammerweg Awarded to IXAS Zuid-Oost Consortium, Consisting of Ballast Nedam, Fluor, Heijmans and 3i Infrastructure
*

The Directorate-General for Public Works and Water Management of the Netherlands Rijkswaterstaat has awarded the A9 Gaasperdammerweg public-private-partnership (PPP) project to IXAS Zuid-Oost, a consortium consisting of Ballast Nedam, Fluor, Heijmans and 3i Infrastructure plc. The project includes the design, build, management, maintenance and financing of the existing and new infrastructure of the A9 motorway between Diemen and Holendrecht in the Netherlands.

The project has a total nominal value of approximately € 700 million, including a 20-year management and maintenance period after the new infrastructure becomes available. (...) The contract with Rijkswaterstaat will be signed in September 2014. The A9 Gaasperdammerweg project is the third section of the Schiphol-Amsterdam-Almere (SAA)road expansion.​
Full report: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/project-a9-gaasperdammerweg-awarded-ixas-053000318.html

This is the most complex sub project of the SAA megaproject. It will feature local lanes, express lanes and reversible lanes, also a land tunnel whose layout is mandated by a railway overpass.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A28 Zwolle - Meppel*

Dense traffic, but no congestion anymore on A28 north of Zwolle.


A28 15-08-2014-1 por Chriszwolle, en Flickr


A28 15-08-2014-2 por Chriszwolle, en Flickr


----------



## Slagathor

Relaxed driving...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A 15 kilometer traffic jam was common before the widening of A28 on Friday afternoons. There is a lot of commuters plus recreational traffic on Friday afternoon, the highest daily traffic volume is around 100,000 on Fridays here. The IJssel River Bridge maxes out at around 140,000 on Fridays.


----------



## snowdog

Slagathor said:


> Relaxed driving...


More relaxed than a traffic jam yes, but busy traffic personally REALLY annoys me.
Best traffic levels are when traffic is calm or at nighttime ( nearly non existent).

Have the habit of driving much less relaxed in busy traffic, but relax on cruise control in calm traffic .
Don't get me wrong, I can see how driving in a train of cars at a near constant speed can be relaxing for most people, but ideally, there is enough capacity for everyone to drive at the speed they want .


Nice pictures though, show that 2 seconds distance is impossible without congestion in the Netherlands, people simply drive closer distances at busy hours while maintaining a decent speed ( usually 90-100 km/h ish).
Stripes on a motorway are 3 meters, distance between stripes is 9 meters. From the picture you can see some people keep about 30 meters of distance between each other. Assuming 100 km/h, this is just over 1 second distance, not 2 seconds like they ''advise''. If people would keep ''2 seconds'' of distance, no decent speeds would be possible in such traffic.


----------



## Kanadzie

I don't think any country drivers respect 2 second distance when the road level of service gets into that "C, D, E" levels like that, 1s or even 0.75s is pretty normal.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Dutch tend to drive close to each other, even on roads with a high level of service, and when people are driving the speed limit or more.

I once had an accident in southern France due to not keeping sufficient distance (my fault, had my license for just a few months, inexperienced) and now I keep more distance than most others.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15 Europoort*

A15 at night:


IMG_35071.jpg por Mark van der Meer, en Flickr


IMG_35272.jpg por Mark van der Meer, en Flickr


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Dutch tend to drive close to each other, even on roads with a high level of service, and when people are driving the speed limit or more.
> 
> I once had an accident in southern France due to not keeping sufficient distance (my fault, had my license for just a few months, inexperienced) and now I keep more distance than most others.


True. But the traffic in NL is rather coherent and calm and thus predictable. Funny is that when I think about the two second rule and increase the distance, the people behind me have to break as well as there is almost always someone.

In Germany you get generally bigger distances, but on stretches it can get very tight and packed with much less predictability.


----------



## Road_UK

The only thing that gets to me in the Netherlands is that they constantly change lanes without looking in the mirror.


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> A proposed new solution in the Netherlands, the tilting sluice (kantelsluis). A possible alternative for an aquaduct. It has a neutral energy balance, and can be applied at existing bascule bridges. Most bascule bridges in the Netherlands only open for yachts, commercial shipping can usually pass under bridges without having to open them. This solution has been proposed for the Haringvliet Bridge (A29) south of Rotterdam.


Do you the status of this proposal? It is quite genius and would allow a much smoother passage of all traffic over this bridge without the need to construct a new higher mounted bridge. 

Especially with the A4-South which is due to open early 2015 if I am not mistaken, the Haringvlietbridge can not open as much as they do now. Especially to accommodate the passage of some recreational yachts which has hardly any benefit to the economy where as the traffic on the bridge is mostly economically driven.


----------



## verfmeer

The question is if it is cheaper then a higher bridge. Especially if you consider that the current bridge only has room for 2x3 lanes if the lanes for non-highway traffic (bicycles, Agricultural vehicles). If 2x3 becomes necessary due to increased trafic, new plans have to be made, which might include a new bridge. That one could be higher so this is not necessary.


----------



## Surel

verfmeer said:


> The question is if it is cheaper then a higher bridge. Especially if you consider that the current bridge only has room for 2x3 lanes if the lanes for non-highway traffic (bicycles, Agricultural vehicles). If 2x3 becomes necessary due to increased trafic, new plans have to be made, which might include a new bridge. That one could be higher so this is not necessary.


Building new bridge doesn't increase the maintenance. The maintenance costs of that sluice will be substantial.

At first I thought it a nice design, but I am not sure what kind of advantages does it have over a normal sluice design anyway.


----------



## verfmeer

At a normal sluice one end must have a higher water level then the other side. In this case, both ends are part of the same body of water and therefore have the same water level.


----------



## Surel

verfmeer said:


> At a normal sluice one end must have a higher water level then the other side. In this case, both ends are part of the same body of water and therefore have the same water level.


What do you mean? You need to lower the water level in order to increase the clearance for the ships and then you need to increase it again. This means you need to exert work because you need to lift the water. I am not so sure that this design requires less energy for moving the water away than the traditional design.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*

A new connector at the 'Kethelplein' motorway interchange opens to traffic this night. It is a two-lane connector from A4 to A20 west (right to below in the image). It replaces a cloverleaf loop.


----------



## verfmeer

Surel said:


> What do you mean? You need to lower the water level in order to increase the clearance for the ships and then you need to increase it again. This means you need to exert work because you need to lift the water. I am not so sure that this design requires less energy for moving the water away than the traditional design.


In the traditional design the water level is lowered by opening holes in the doors so the water flows out to the lower part. Therefore a normal sluice (also called lock), needs a height difference. If you want to build a lower stretch of water under the bridge, water will be pouring in everytime the lock is operated. Within a few times the stretch under the bridge will be filled to the old level. It would need continuous pumping to prevent it from reaching that old water level. That pumping would cost a lot of energy.

In this design, one stretch of water is lifted while the other is lowered. That costs very little energy, because the center of mass doesn't change. Although lifting the boats will cost some energy, it costs less than it would could cost to lift the whole stretch of water. The question is if the higher number of moving parts and the higher material costs will cost more or less than the energy profit. That needs to be investigated by engineers.


----------



## Surel

verfmeer said:


> In this design, one stretch of water is lifted while the other is lowered. That costs very little energy, because the center of mass doesn't change. Although lifting the boats will cost some energy, it costs less than it would could cost to lift the whole stretch of water. The question is if the higher number of moving parts and the higher material costs will cost more or less than the energy profit. That needs to be investigated by engineers.


And that is what I am not so sure about. You need to displace the same amount of water. Thus you should need to exert the same amount of energy. In fact the whole tilting sluice works as one giant water pump or am I missing something?


----------



## verfmeer

It's more like a huge log. Such large piece of wood is hard to lift, but easy to rotate. I am unable to do the calculations without more specifications, but the theory says it cost less energy. That is because the conventional design requires the water to make a free fall, and all that splatter is useless energy. In here you only lose energy when you have to brake the sluice to stop it rotating. It all depends on the mass and the volume of the water, but this new option might be cheaper than the old one.


----------



## julesstoop

If you manage not to (or at least as little as possible) move the centre of mass of the whole system, it can be done very easily.


----------



## Wilhem275

Yes, the weight of water on one side will counterbalance the one on the other side. Just the same as in an elevator. You don't need energy to actually raise it, since while you raise one you lower the other.

Energy here is needed to win the inertia of the whole structure and make it spin, but -as said- it's much less than when lifting the whole thing.


----------



## Surel

Wilhem275 said:


> Yes, the weight of water on one side will counterbalance the one on the other side. Just the same as in an elevator. You don't need energy to actually raise it, since while you raise one you lower the other.
> 
> Energy here is needed to win the inertia of the whole structure and make it spin, but -as said- it's much less than when lifting the whole thing.


I don't seem to be getting it.

Imagine a normal design. You got a chamber, the boat gets in. The door closes. The water is pumped out and you need energy for that. The boat moves to the second door. The water flows in, and you could make energy of that. The boat flows out.

The problem is that you are not able to harvest the potential energy of the water completely, thus you are never able to recover the energy invested into pumping the water out.

Now, since this tilting design should work better, it should be able to recover that energy more efficiently. I don´t see how does it do that. I don´t see how does this system converse the change in the potential energy to use it later on.

Please don´t forget that if you want to push a floating glass half full with water deeper inside the water, you need energy as well. You need to overcome the buoyancy. And if you want to pull it up from the water, you need energy as you need to overcome the gravity.

EDIT. I am not sure, but I guess that this is the trick. The buoyancy exerts force on the center of gravity, which would be the axle of the whole cylinder. Thus you would not have to deal with it and it would have only very slight effect on the increased friction in the axle.

So I imagine it as this. There is a cylinder with two chambers that are connected with each other and with the outside water. The water is equal with the outside. The inner and left connection closes. We rotate it counterclockwise and the water pours out from the right chamber. We don´t need to overcome the buoyancy as the buoyancy is felt at the axle which is hold tight and bound to earth, the friction increases a bit. We get to the desired point. The boat gets in the right chamber. The door closes on right side and opens on the left side and we rotate clockwise till desired point. The boat on the left side gets in and the door on the left side closes. We rotate again counterclockwise till the level in the right chamber equalizes with the outside water. The boat gets out.

I was playing a bit in paint .









Sorry for the OT. But could anyone confirm this? Especially the solution to the buoyancy problem?


----------



## Wilhem275

Actually in this design you don't have to think about the potential energy given by the weight of the water pumped in or out, because in fact you are not displacing water at all, it just stays inside the chambers in constant volumes. In fact you don't have any energy to recover, it just stays in the whole time, as in roped elevators:
http://static.howstuffworks.com/flash/elevator-cable.swf

The energy here is needed to take this whole bunch of steel, water and boats into spinning, and then stopping it again. It's a serious job. But the interesting part is that using electric motors you can recover part of the energy when stopping the rotation.


Buoyancy could be a problem of this design, but I see they already solved it by shaping the whole thing as a cylinder: in this way while it rotates it still occupies the same exact space in the water. You will not then have differences in water pressure depending on the position of the cylinder.

Since the structure is linked to the ground, you will have a constant buoyancy force pushing it upwards; this force will insist on the two pivots. But it will be then mostly counterbalanced by the weight of the water inside (which will occupy almost the same volume of the water displaced) and of the structure itself. It's in fact a boat full of water. So, it could even reach a good equilibrium with the external pressure and thus not insist too much upwards on the pivots and foundations (probably weight will be higher than buoyancy, in the end).

This is a very intelligent design because it uses a lot of different huge forces in a smart way, keeping them in a general equilibrium.
As said by verfmeer calculations must be done on the convenience of building and mantaining this peculiar system, but the concept is very well thought.


----------



## Surel

Wilhem275 said:


> Actually in this design you don't have to think about the potential energy given by the weight of the water pumped in or out, because in fact you are not displacing water at all, it just stays inside the chambers in constant volumes. In fact you don't have any energy to recover, it just stays in the whole time, as in roped elevators:
> http://static.howstuffworks.com/flash/elevator-cable.swf
> 
> The energy here is needed to take this whole bunch of steel, water and boats into spinning, and then stopping it again. It's a serious job. But the interesting part is that using electric motors you can recover part of the energy when stopping the rotation.
> 
> 
> Buoyancy could be a problem of this design, but I see they already solved it by shaping the whole thing as a cylinder: in this way while it rotates it still occupies the same exact space in the water. You will not then have differences in water pressure depending on the position of the cylinder.
> 
> Since the structure is linked to the ground, you will have a constant buoyancy force pushing it upwards; this force will insist on the two pivots. But it will be then mostly counterbalanced by the weight of the water inside (which will occupy almost the same volume of the water displaced) and of the structure itself. It's in fact a boat full of water. So, it could even reach a good equilibrium with the external pressure and thus not insist too much upwards on the pivots and foundations (probably weight will be higher than buoyancy, in the end).
> 
> This is a very intelligent design because it uses a lot of different huge forces in a smart way, keeping them in a general equilibrium.
> As said by verfmeer calculations must be done on the convenience of building and mantaining this peculiar system, but the concept is very well thought.


Yeah. I came to that after a while of thinking . The buoyancy force will be dealt by the pivots exerting the exact same force in the opposite direction. There might be only problems with increased friction. I am not so sure if they can make it weight enough to replace 8 m height of water.

Thx. for the confirmation! It was nice puzzle.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The projected cost estimate is € 60 million.

That means it's mostly feasible to avoid long fixed bridges or tunnels.


----------



## Wilhem275

Surel said:


> I am not so sure if they can make it weight enough to replace 8 m height of water.


Wait: you don't have to actually replace them, since almost the same amount of water is inside the structure and pushes downwards on the pivots.


----------



## Surel

Wilhem275 said:


> Wait: you don't have to actually replace them, since almost the same amount of water is inside the structure and pushes downwards on the pivots.


The water level in one chamber would bee around 7 - 8 meter under the outside water level, right? The water level in the other chamber would not be above the outside water level, right?


----------



## verfmeer

Surel said:


> The water level in one chamber would bee around 7 - 8 meter under the outside water level, right? The water level in the other chamber would not be above the outside water level, right?


Yes, but that only requires to pump out the water once at construction. And since the center of rotation will be around 3-4 meter below the outside water level (as seen in the video), the sluice is still balanced around the center of rotation and the center of mass (which will probably be at the same spot).

And I don't think it will be buoyant due to the fact that they use steel. Steel is 8 times denser than water, so it could compensate for the lack of water in one chamber. The doors of the sluice are usually around 50 centimeters thick, which make it way 4 metric tonnes per square meter. You also see parts of the sluice rising above the water adding weight to the sluice, without displacing water. If the designers are any good, they make the sluice weigh slightly more than the water displaced, so the water will carry most of the weight, and the support structures don't need to be very strong.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Steenbergen*

The planned opening of A4 has been moved forward from March 2015 to 24 November 2014. It is weather-dependent, the alternate date is 1 December 2014.


----------



## EPA001

^^ Great news. Earlier then expected. :banana:


----------



## Road_UK

It is indeed...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's a very basic traffic counter. It can only count the number of axles. 

I installed double-tube traffic counters. These can also classify vehicles by type and by speed. Their data is very reliable as long as they are not vandalized. Light pole mounted radar counters are less prone to vandalization, but in my experience it is difficult to get reliable readings, especially if there are also cyclists on the road. 

Typical traffic counters with rubber tubes don't register cyclists or children jumping on it, they don't displace enough air to be registered.


----------



## Slagathor

I've seen them in The Hague where they had stickers on them saying "Please don't vandalize this machine; it only counts the traffic, it doesn't fine anyone."


----------



## ChrisZwolle

For some people that is an incentive to vandalize it.

I've had dozens of traffic counters vandalized. Because it keeps on recording, you can see when they were vandalized (often the tubes are cut with a knife or pair of scissors). Nearly all counters were vandalized on Saturday or Sunday morning between 0100 and 0500 hrs.


----------



## Wilhem275

I stopped asking myself what goes through these people's minds...


----------



## keokiracer

Wilhem275 said:


> I stopped asking myself what goes through these people's minds...


Probably more alcohol then blood looking at the timespan Chris gave...


----------



## Suburbanist

*New billboards near A28 to be turned down on Sundays to appease ultra-religious community*



> Two highway advertising hoardings close to the Bible Belt village of Staphorst will be switched off on Sundays, local companies have decided.
> 
> The screens will be attached to a 40-metre high telecoms mast next to the A28 and 30 local firms have set up a foundation to manage the advertising.
> 
> However, they have now decided not to use the screens on Sundays, out of respect to the staunchly Protestant local population, local broadcaster RTV Oost said.


 Source


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are stories that back in the 1960s, when A28 was just completed through Staphorst, people would throw bricks to passing cars on Sundays.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Chris, do you work for a Department of Transport in the Netherlands or something?


----------



## da_scotty

There will be 14 types of new traffic signs this year including for example:
*special signs to mark bus/tram lanes
*signs to mark trucklanes
*passing place signs










This is to make sure that there is one standard instead of every municipality making there own designs (or mix-match of current signs).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Innsertnamehere said:


> Chris, do you work for a Department of Transport in the Netherlands or something?


No, much highway engineering and consultancy in the Netherlands is done via private consultancies. We cater mostly to municipal governments. I worked mainly with traffic counting, highway design (AutoCAD) and air quality & highway / railway noise modeling.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N305 Almere - Dronten*

Flevoland province for the first time uses styrofoam embankments at the N305 twinning project. It saves about three months in settling time. Not everybody is convinced this is a durable solution though. It isn't applied regularly in the Netherlands.


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ Is it a experimental project?

I've seen it used in some road projects in Italy, as a lightweight replacement for clay boggy soil. It is paramount that whatever is beneath the replaced mass is stable within the tension limits of the replaced material.


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ Is it a experimental project?

I've seen it used in some road projects in Italy, as a lightweight replacement for clay boggy soil. It is paramount that whatever is beneath the replaced mass is stable within the tension limits of the replaced material. It is particularly useful for things like ramps near viaducts. I don't know how to explain exactly the interaction of the force vector of passing traffic and the physical properties of the material, just that is is less prone to subsidence and lateral motion.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15, Botlek Bridge, Rotterdam*

The second lift deck of the new Botlek Bridge was transported to the site today.


Botlekbrug (20) by Mark van der Meer, on Flickr


Botlekbrug (21) Panorama by Mark van der Meer, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Ede - Arnhem*

*Financial close DBFM contract A12 Veenendaal - Ede - Grijsoord*

*Heijmans and the Directorate-General for Public Works and Water Management reached financial close for the widening and maintenance of the A12 Veenendaal – Ede – Grijsoord on 25 September. The DBFM (Design Build Finance Maintain) contract comprises the widening of the A12 between Ede and Grijsoord from 2 x 2 to 2 x 3 lanes and the maintenance of the stretch Veenendaal – Ede – Grijsoord for a period of 16 years after making available.*

(...)

The work will commence at the start of 2015 and the widening of the road will be completed by the end of 2016. The maintenance contract will run until the end of the summer of 2032.​
Full press release: http://www.heijmans.nl/en/news/fina...and-maintenance-a12-veenendaal-ede-grijsoord/


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N7, Groningen*

The final environmental impact statement (F-EIS) or 'tracébesluit' of the N7 Groningen expansion project will be signed by minister Schultz on Monday 29 September. This completes the plan approval prodecure.

The N7 project is the most anticipated road expansion project in northern Netherlands in decades. Earlier plans called for a new A7 alignment south of Groningen, but traffic studies found out the far majority of traffic on N7 has a destination or origin in the city of Groningen, and is not through traffic. Therefor, a new bypass would do little to relieve congestion in Groningen, but would have a very high cost. 

The current plan will expand N7 in Groningen to eight lanes and become completely controlled-access. The Julianaplein traffic lights is the busiest traffic light in the Netherlands, processing over 130,000 vehicles per day. Because of urban constraints, it will be an 80 km/h 'autoweg' (expressway).


----------



## Kanadzie

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ Is it a experimental project?
> 
> I've seen it used in some road projects in Italy, as a lightweight replacement for clay boggy soil. It is paramount that whatever is beneath the replaced mass is stable within the tension limits of the replaced material. It is particularly useful for things like ramps near viaducts. I don't know how to explain exactly the interaction of the force vector of passing traffic and the physical properties of the material, just that is is less prone to subsidence and lateral motion.


It's used frequently here in Canada. But it is interesting for NL... one would think light weight to be most important, to stop the country from sinking :nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N61 Hoek - Schoondijke*

A new short four-lane segment of N61. It's a pity that they didn't twin the entire route to four lanes.


----------



## Wilhem275

da_scotty said:


> This is to make sure that there is one standard instead of every municipality making there own designs (or mix-match of current signs).


I don't get why we don't have a EU standard for those signs...


----------



## Kanadzie

Road_UK said:


> Good idea. Italy gets this....


Has anyone actually had one of these signs give them a useful information? Any time I've saw one I was already stopped or there was no traffic at all...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's like those rockfall signs. Usually drivers don't change their driving style at all, making these signs rather useless.


----------



## Kanadzie

I'm not even sure what you should do with the rockfall sign... pray?

It is like the "snowflake" sign you see on Polish autostrady, I was driving in August, it was +36 *C :lol:


----------



## Reivajar

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's like those rockfall signs. Usually drivers don't change their driving style at all, making these signs rather useless.


It would be much more useful just leaving some little stones randomly fallen with gravel on the side of the road... LOL :nuts:


----------



## Road_UK

They function as warning signs.

Italy:









Germany:









Netherlands: (or Belgium)


----------



## Reivajar

^^ I've seen them as well on static sign, not only in electronic panels. 

As static ones, I've seen them on motorways, just before toll plazas and before the ending of a motorway / expressway section with an important reduction of speed (such as traffic light, roundabout or just a built-up area).


----------



## ChasingCars

*Rotterdam area gridlocked*

This morning, a truck crashed through the crashbarrier at A16 highway southbound, creating a massive traffic jam. Moreover, several accidents occured in the traffic jams that developed due to this accident, resulting in a total gridlock of the Rotterdam urban area. 
News article (in Dutch): http://nos.nl/artikel/703938-verkeersinfarct-rond-rotterdam.html

Road authority Rijkswaterstaat as well as motorists association ANWB are strongly advising people to cancel their road trips to Rotterdam.

This accident makes very clear again that the Dutch road network is extremely prone to huge delays caused by accidents or bad weather. Gridlocks like this happen on a regular basis, not only around Rotterdam but also the Amsterdam and Utrecht urban area's are very fragile.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

^^
I commuted from Rotterdam to The Hague this morning. The roll on effects of the jams on the motorways went right through the urban area (citybound on Hoofdweg at Alexander and Bosdreef, Kralingsebos were all jammed up). I took the A20 from Alexander to Nieuewekerk and then crossed over on N219 to the A12 for the rest of the trip to the Hague.


----------



## da_scotty

I was coaching (rowing) on the Schieweg/Rotterdamseweg parallel to the Schie-River, and I've seen a lot delay at the traffic blocks at _de zweth_ near the Kandelaar-Bridge during rush hour (to discourage using local roads as a detour), but today was absolutely crazy. There must have been 30+ cars waiting for the blocks (which only allow one car each time), The bus from line 40 was also stuck in the gridlock.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

At one point there was over 200 kilometers of traffic jam within a 20 km radius of Rotterdam.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Groningen province*

The N33 twinning project was officially opened by transportation minister Schultz today. 37 km of N33 was twinned to a four-lane divided highway with a 100 km/h speed limit. It is fully access-controlled through interchanges. The project only took 1.5 years.

At the same time, the final EIS (record of decision) of the N7 Groningen project was signed today. This completes the procedures for the reconstruction of N7 through Groningen. It will be widened to 2x4 lanes, with two covers and a new compact interchange with A28, replacing the busiest traffic lights in the country. The project will likely start in 2017 and cost € 600 million. It has been discussed since the 1980s.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15, Botlek Bridge, Rotterdam*

Both bridge decks of the Botlek Bridge are now installed.


----------



## Des

Mega! Looks like a robot!


----------



## snowdog

That's what happens if you have no alternative routes. ( regarding the chaos around Rotterdam today).

I started driving around 9.50 am, and luckily most of the chaos was gone by then, the A16 was clear until at least exit centrum, didn't look up to the bridge if it was still jammed there.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N31, Leeuwarden*

The Leeuwarden Bypass project is going very fast. I must admit I was rather skeptic about the ability to finish the project this year with their ambitious schedule, but it's progressing well.


CIMG4484 by krusefahrer, on Flickr


CIMG4482 by krusefahrer, on Flickr


CIMG4466 by krusefahrer, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Steenbergen*

The new aquaduct at Steenbergen:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Photos of new signs at Utrecht, designed according to the new signage guidelines 2014.


005 by Benjamin van der Velden, on Flickr


012 by Benjamin van der Velden, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Schiphol Tunnel*

The 8-tube Schiphol Tunnel.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Badhoevedorp*

Recent aerial photos of the A9 Badhoevedorp bypass project. It will open to traffic in 2017.

1. Badhoevedorp motorway interchange (A4/A9), the oldest cloverleaf in the Netherlands (opened in 1967).









2. Looking east towards the Badhoevedorp interchange.









3. Looking west towards the A9 to Haarlem.









4. Connection to A9 west of Badhoevedorp.


----------



## devo

Kanadzie said:


> I'm not even sure what you should do with the rockfall sign... pray?
> 
> It is like the "snowflake" sign you see on Polish autostrady, I was driving in August, it was +36 *C :lol:


The signs are put up because there might be rockfall/stones in the road. The illustration is usually of falling rocks, but that's just to make it easy to recognize. The rocks in the road is the point. The thought is that this unusual situation comes as a surprise to people but the signs gives some heads up. Also, places prone to rockfall are (usually) pretty curvy, which reduces the distance you can react.


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## MrAronymous

ChrisZwolle said:


> The 8-tube Schiphol Tunnel.


Eventhough officially the tunnel with the bike path and bus lanes is called Buitenveldertunnel. At least that's what it says on the signs in the tunnel itself.


----------



## Road_UK

ChrisZwolle said:


> I went to Rotterdam last Sunday to pay a visit to the construction site of A15.
> 
> The A15 is currently a 2x3 motorway. It will be widened to 10 lanes, with 12 - 14 lanes near major interchanges. A much-needed makeover of this important transportation corridor.
> 
> 1. Interchange Vaanplein. This may be the third most impressive interchange of the Netherlands. The major downside is that it lacks the symmetry of the Ridderkerk and Prins Clausplein Interchanges.
> 
> r


This post dates back from 2012. What is the situation there now? Is it operational?


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## KIWIKAAS

The parallel carriageways are 90% finnished from Vaanplein to Benelux, but there is still allot to be done from Benelux to the Caland Tunnel.


----------



## keokiracer

Road_UK said:


> This post dates back from 2012. What is the situation there now? Is it operational?


Yes. There's even some up-to-date Streetview available 
https://maps.google.nl/?ll=51.86491...d=cp5LO3b8GO6uc0cvR9rM7A&cbp=12,280.85,,1,3.1
https://maps.google.nl/?ll=51.86475...=jd7wUYAUxWUn4jRtopbZbw&cbp=12,121.52,,0,3.86



KIWIKAAS said:


> Caland Tunnel.


Thomassentunnel you mean 

(or is it unofficially called Callandtunnel?)


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## ChrisZwolle

It was originally named the Caland Tunnel, it's next to the Caland Bridge and crosses the Caland Canal. It was later renamed the Thomassen Tunnel, after the former Rotterdam mayor Wim Thomassen.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*praatpaal*

The network of SOS telephones, known in Dutch as a 'praatpaal' (talk pole) will be shut down in 2017. They are installed only along motorways and a few N-roads under national authority (rijkswegen). 

Currently approximately 97.5% of the calls to roadside assistance ANWB are made through a (mobile) phone. The remaining 2.5% is made through the SOS telephones which are installed at every 1 km in both directions.


----------



## Slagathor

I only used them once in my life, they were a bit cumbersome. You had to keep a heavy button pressed in as you talked and the noise cancelling design didn't really work. It was hard to understand the replies in the buzz of the motorway.

They're iconic though, like our version of Britain's red phone booths.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A67 Someren*

The Someren interchange of A67 (Eindhoven - Venlo) is notorious for its short ramp and merging lane towards Venlo, combined with the heavy truck traffic on that corridor. The merging lane is very short because of a bridge across the canal and no shoulders on it. As a solution they are constructing a new span for the onramp.









by de bermtoerist (photo may be slow to load)


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## Wilhem275

A few days ago we took a bus trip from Den Haag to Gouda, and in such a compact travel I was able to see a good number of projects that Chris and others reported here in recent years.

In particular, I was a bit disappointed (as every user, I guess...) by the third lane of A12 not being available at all time. What weird rule is behind that?

On our way back, we were caught in a nasty queue when entering A12 at Gouda, because traffic from the city towards Den Haag had to cross the two lanes towards A20 and Rotterdam, and given the Friday evening traffic the two fluxes just blocked each other.
Since the median there is very wide, I wonder if they are planning to create a separate lane to merge on the "A12 side" without crossing the "A20 lanes".

Something like this:









(crappy substandard design, with a lane merging from the left side, but just to give an idea)
The best would be to separate A12 and A20 before that point, but I don't know if the central span of the viaduct is wide enough to accomodate 3+1 lanes.

PS: this merging at Prins Clausplein was scary. Two cars almost crashed in front of us... the guy in the middle just saw his lane disappear with no free space on his sides.
This design is good when splitting, not merging...


----------



## snowdog

Perhaps a bit harsh but:


> On our way back, we were caught in a nasty queue when entering A12 at Gouda, because traffic from the city towards Den Haag had to cross the two lanes towards A20 and Rotterdam, and given the Friday evening traffic the two fluxes just blocked each other.


This is drivers error, people who have trouble weaving in traffic shouldn't be driving at all imho. It's honestly not that hard, though I can usually take advantage of those sheep who have to merge at the first possible moment and brake to nearly crawling speeds rather than making speed first and weave later on by staying in the lane ''I don't have to be'' longer and simply making speed, looking up gaps further ahead, etc...


> Two cars almost crashed in front of us... the guy in the middle just saw his lane disappear with no free space on his sides.


Again drivers error, a sheep not looking further ahead than the car in front, way to much of these drivers on the road these days. A normal driver would have seen the situation much earlier and as soon as the other joining road was visible, deciding to go either left or right depending on the traffic and speed on either side, and acting on it ( by either pressing the throttle deep, or releasing it).

If it was up to me, these types of drivers would have their license shredded right away, the ones who don't anticipate ahead and don't notice their lane ''disappears''. Look ahead more than just the car in front ffs hno:.

The first situation I quoted, that happens daily at Terbregge where the 2x2 lanes from the A20 and the 5th lane from exit Terbregge join. I always come from the A20 from east on the most left lane, and when the other A20 direction ( from west) joins on the right side, often in the morning rush hour the right lane ( of the 2 lanes coming from A20 east) is clogged by idiots who need to go on the collector lanes of the A16 ( so move a couple of lanes to the right). There is 1.4 km to merge/weave. But everybody has go in the first 200 meters . I happily overtake all those stupid idiots and move 3 lanes over to the collector lanes in the last 500 meter. It is a daily mini traffic jam in the morning ''rush hour'' because people don't look ahead far enough and see they have a whole 1400 meters to continue at normal speed and look for a gap, instead than moving to their needed lane the moment they can, and slow down to a 30 km/h crawl. It's 2+2+1 lane merging into 5 and splitting back into 3+2, there is no bottleneck, only stupid driver behaviour that causes congestion there . If everyone would just stay relaxed, see the ocean of space they have ahead of them, and don't use the ****ing brakes unnecessarily, there'd be no problem there.


As for the third lane on the A12, I agree, but what do you want, political correctness for not making it a normal 3rd lane...


----------



## Wilhem275

On the first point, although I may agree about the general incompetence of drivers, we must still consider that above a certain flow of mixing fluxes capacity will drop no matter what, even with the best possible users. All those vehicles simply can't fit into the given space, without a serious reduction of speed.
I don't know if at Gouda this happens regularly, I had the impression that most of the merging traffic was heading to Den Haag. Interesting to note, in the opposite direction heavy traffic was flowing steadily at speed.

About Prins Clausplein, I can't agree. That lane vanishes in just 100 m, 300 m after the only sign that would give an idea of what's going to happen, and before that point the road looks like any other full grown motorway to be used at constant speed.
Such short merge is substandard for an on-ramp, where in the worst case scenario one can abort the operation, stop and rethink.
Here stopping is not an option at all, you are in the middle of a motorway.

I don't think I've ever seen anything like that in Europe.


----------



## Des

That Prins Clausplein situation looks very dangerous indeed. Maybe someone should complain to RWS about the issue so they can fix it. Sometimes that is all that it takes to get these things fixed.


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## Slagathor

Prins Clausplein is absurdly dangerous, I agree. It must be an old design or something, perhaps Chris knows more about it.

As for drivers and their general competencies: if we're going to maintain a system where driving is open to basically everyone over the age of 18 so long as they pass a single test, then obviously we need to design infrastructure according to a relatively low denominator. People are dense, that's just the way it is. 

Frankly, if you look at really busy shopping streets and how often people get in each other's way then, it's nothing short of a miracle accidents on the road don't happen more often.


----------



## Surel

Des said:


> That Prins Clausplein situation looks very dangerous indeed. Maybe someone should complain to RWS about the issue so they can fix it. Sometimes that is all that it takes to get these things fixed.


They could rather use the shoulder as the right lane and end the lane after some time.

I saw this kind of design several times in NL.


----------



## verfmeer

In Denmark, you don't even have a choise, most incoming lanes end immediatly ( http://goo.gl/maps/Iyt1i ). Also in Germany there are examples without a right lane:










At the Prins Clausplein you can choose the right lane, so you don't need to use it. If you are looking ahead you can see the signs more than 500 meters in advance, so you have over 18 seconds to react. That must be more than enough to check for space on your left, or to decide that you don't want to merge there and go to the right.
I agree a better solution is possible , simply because more lanes is always better, but given the local circumstances (the bridge ahead has only room for 3 lanes), I think it is the best compromise between safety and trafic flow.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

The merge from the A4 onto the A20 (direction Gouda) at Benelux is the same kind of merge as at Prins Clausplein, but since the reconstruction works the left lane merge seems to have been extended a bit.
I think the merge at Prins Clausplein could be lengthened without much effort, and even beter, get rid of the merge and let both lanes run onto the A12 with the right lane merging after 4 or 500m (as was already suggested here).


----------



## KIWIKAAS

verfmeer said:


> In Denmark, you don't even have a choise, most incoming lanes end immediatly ( http://goo.gl/maps/Iyt1i ). Also in Germany there are examples without a right lane:


There are ineed some real shockers in Germany.

From my experience the merges in Denmark are long and gradual, even if there is no parallel merging lane.

For short merges, there are allot of examples of very sort merges in California and Florida. Belgium also has some very short and sometimes very skinny merging lanes.


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## Road_UK

Italy has the shortest in the world.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Prins Clausplein merger is called a 'taper'. There are numerous tapers in the Netherlands, both merging and diverging. This particular one seems a bit short, though I usually don't drive there, so I can't judge it entirely. 

Tapers need to be applied at locations where there are at least 2 through lanes left of the taper. That is the case at Prins Clausplein. Also, they need to be reasonably wide for some distance to allow traffic to find a gap in traffic to merge. 

It's possible the traffic volumes are just too high for this location. You have traffic coming from both directions of A4 merging onto A12 east, and those are pretty heavy traffic flows (A4 south of the Prins Clausplein interchange has the highest traffic volume in the Netherlands).


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## ChrisZwolle

Welcome to the Netherlands! Exit Belgium! :lol:


----------



## Thermo

keokiracer said:


> It IS the highway, it's the parallel lanes which are part of the A12-highway.


But it's not the main highway, you know what I mean. And btw, I'm not saying this as an excuse. It's a scandal. I've read the official explanation in the paper today: this part was scheduled to be renovated this year, but due to budget issues it's postponed to next year...


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## Slagathor

Wait a little longer and it'll be less renovating and more reconstructing. You might even find some archaeological treasures.


----------



## da_scotty

Thermo said:


> Actually, it's not the highway but a small road next to the highway (partially leading to an abandoned customs office).


Does it matter which part of the highway, any part of the highway looking like that is a disgrace.hno:


> The highway itself looks like this: https://www.google.be/maps/@51.3761...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sbWdaeNTd4Iv2RtouTNso7w!2e0



The streetview pictures are dated, but even at that time the dutch section looks better, and on the first picture of the border the dutch section is already repaved.



> https://www.google.nl/maps/@51.3190028,5.208791,3a,75y,214.74h,80.14t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1saB2zlIJspDgSabD0vtr1FQ!2e0


The difference in maintainance (look at the overgrown median) at A67 is big as well, if you go back 100m in to the Netherlands there is even a sign that says watch out "slippery road".


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## Slagathor

Maybe the Belgos could just pave it with cobblestones. They don't wear out as quickly and since they're absolutely ruinous on caravans, all the Dutchies would go to Germany in the summer instead. Win-win.


----------



## Wilhem275

Surel said:


> Well, then you could still use the shoulder, and merge the leftmost lane. Or is there such big difference in the traffic flows on those carriageways? I just think that the shoulder space could be utilized to improve the situation even if the taper was to stay.


Even using it, you'll get just about 80-90 m more, not a big difference. And at the price of having no margin at all, which would be an even less safe situation.



Slagathor said:


> I'll supply the shovel.


It's always nice to see some enthusiasm  so, there you go.

Here I made the rightmost lane merge, but if they want to keep their damn taper they can. At least it will be a 450 m taper instead of 100...

Tell RWS I'll send them the bill.


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## da_scotty

Slagathor said:


> Maybe the Belgos could just pave it with cobblestones. They don't wear out as quickly and since they're absolutely ruinous on caravans, all the Dutchies would go to Germany in the summer instead. Win-win.


Also opens a world of potential cycle race-classics! :nuts:


----------



## andy5

ChrisZwolle said:


> Welcome to the Netherlands! Exit Belgium! :lol:


Sorry to go off-topic, but it isn't long since they cleaned up all this from the other side of Belgium, between Lille and Tournai

https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=50.60...oid=cak7QIJQ0R1k_bnQ3zGTOw&cbp=12,246.06,,0,0

https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=50.60...anoid=81msdEaI_bXAtOQD0s4g6w&cbp=12,72.2,,0,0

The quality of the road surface was rather worse than the pictures show.


----------



## Des

aswnl said:


> It isn't dangerous at all. Not having a taper would have meant that the incoming traffic would be narrowed to only one lane before entering the A12. That would mean a lot of congestion on the Prins Clausplein ramps, because one lane isn't providing enough capacity. And that would mean a high risk of accidents on the elevated ramps of the interchange. Incoming tapers are quite normal in NL. Other countries often have similar things, but they don't provide any guidance at all to the incoming traffic. E.g. here: https://www.google.nl/maps?ll=48.716601,2.291462&spn=0.001605,0.003484&t=h&layer=c&cbll=48.716645,2.2913&panoid=U92-zrnUX2AHWJlgzX5iUQ&cbp=12,20.34,,0,7.54&z=19 Just seek your own way from 2 lanes into merging. Look left of you - and right, because you never know what anyone will do. The taper-solution in NL is way much clearer to a road user, and is being signed in a way anyone driving towards the taper can anticipate. Sign: https://www.google.nl/maps?ll=52.056616,4.389549&spn=0.002992,0.006968&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=52.056616,4.389549&panoid=vR8jHXw2zYqK8mY7M-l4qQ&cbp=12,126.4,,0,10.12


The taper is fine, but this one looks extremely short, it must be possible to make it slightly longer no?


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## KIWIKAAS

Actually, probably the shortest taper in NL is probably on the A13 at Delft-Noord in the direction of The Hague. It's even shorter than the one onto the A12 at Prins Clausplein.


----------



## Road_UK

andy5 said:


> Sorry to go off-topic, but it isn't long since they cleaned up all this from the other side of Belgium, between Lille and Tournai
> 
> https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=50.60...oid=cak7QIJQ0R1k_bnQ3zGTOw&cbp=12,246.06,,0,0
> 
> https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=50.60...anoid=81msdEaI_bXAtOQD0s4g6w&cbp=12,72.2,,0,0
> 
> The quality of the road surface was rather worse than the pictures show.


They are busy removing the border station now, and the traffic is being diverted around through a temoraray road. But you very much notice the difference when entering Belgium from France. It wasn't that bad let's say 6 years ago.

Edit - actuially it's the border station on the E17 that is being removed, but the E42 is still very bad...


----------



## keokiracer

KIWIKAAS said:


> Actually, probably the shortest taper in NL is probably on the A13 at Delft-Noord in the direction of The Hague. It's even shorter than the one onto the A12 at Prins Clausplein.


I vote for the N7 at Groningen

It's a bit cheating though, since either the left merge lane is closed or the right lane of the N7 is closed. So traffic does not come into conflict, which is most certainly a good thing :lol:


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## Road_UK

There is still no way that you can merge using the second lane without either straddling the first lane or crossing the solid markers...


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## Wilhem275

The "controlled taper" used in Groningen is a nice solution. A bit less flexible, but still you don't have a permanent loss of capacity.
To be perfect it would need variable road painting :lol:

About Delft Noord: does that on-ramp really need two full lanes all the way in? All other junctions on A13 seem to be designed (or modified) with 2>1 reduction before the merge.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There's a taper at the Neerbosch motorway interchange near Nijmegen (where A73 makes a TOTSO) where the tapering lane is always crossed out by the matrix signs when I drive there.


----------



## aswnl

Des said:


> The taper is fine, but this one looks extremely short, it must be possible to make it slightly longer no?


It's about 100 meters long, and thats not "extremely short". A lot of tapers that are safe and are functioning well have about the same lenght. 
Two examples:
https://www.google.nl/maps?ll=52.424731,4.885738&spn=0.001533,0.004128&t=h&z=19
https://www.google.nl/maps?ll=52.437608,4.671408&spn=0.001532,0.004128&t=h&z=19

Although tapers of 200 meters are better, that's evident.

An example of a really extremely short merging taper (ca. 50 m):
https://www.google.nl/maps?ll=52.029571,4.357501&spn=0.001546,0.004128&t=h&z=19
This one is really too short for being permanently openend from both directions.

This one is also only 50-60 meters:
https://www.google.nl/maps?ll=52.354237,4.965224&spn=0.000768,0.002064&t=h&z=20
But in this case the taper is never used from both merging lanes at the same time. By default the tapering lane from the A1 is closed - and when it is opened to relieve congestion on the A1, the right lane on the A10 is closed.


----------



## Suburbanist

I wonder how many roads as dangerous as N65 are left... with crossings like this one or that one (imagery is old)


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## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Amersfoort*

The final EIS has been published for the widening of A1 between Bunschoten and the Hoevelaken motorway interchange. It is basically the northern ring road of Amersfoort. They will widen the eastbound carriageway to three lanes. A bridge across the Zwolle - Amersfoort railway will be replaced, with sufficient space for a future expansion to 4 eastbound lanes.

It is a temporary fix to prevent a bottleneck once the A1 is widened from the Eemnes motorway interchange (A27) to Bunschoten. Without the temporary widening, the amount of lanes would drop from 4 to 2 at the Bunschoten exit. 










There will be A LOT of construction going on in the Amersfoort area, starting in 2015. It will basically be one big construction zone from 2015 to 2022. There are three separate projects;

* 2014-2015: widening of eastbound A1 Bunschoten - Hoevelaken to 3 lanes
* 2015-2019: widening of A1 Eemnes - Bunschoten to 2x4 lanes
* 2019-2022: reconstruction of Hoevelaken interchange
* 2019-2022: widening of A1 Bunschoten - Barneveld to 2x4 lanes
* 2019-2022: widening of A28 Amersfoort-Zuid - Nijkerk to 2x4 lanes

The A1/A28 eight-laning projects are part of the Hoevelaken motorway interchange reconstruction project. It is the final project to widen all motorways around Amersfoort.


----------



## Des

Do you have any designs of the new Hoevelaken interchange?


----------



## Koesj

Des said:


> Do you have any designs of the new Hoevelaken interchange?


The design reference for the whole project can be found here (large PDF), nothing final yet but I can't imagine they'll stray too far from what they've already got on paper.


This is the interchange itself:

(click for very large)


----------



## Kanadzie

Suburbanist said:


> I wonder how many roads as dangerous as N65 are left... with crossings like this one or that one (imagery is old)


Does this really count as dangerous design? It's clearly far safer than a single-carriageway 1x2 road for example, you have the space to wait between carriageways, etc. It is only dangerous if the traffic volumes are very high in the main axis or high in the cross axis...


----------



## Slagathor

Wilhem275 said:


> What really creates this confusion is probably the fact that the greenhouse industry is made of a quantity of dispersed centers, so there is a serious amount of traffic generating from a cloud of indefinite points (which is exactly the problem of the Venice area).
> 
> About the situation of Den Haag, there is something apparently disfunctional in the road network of the city. Probably it's due to the city being completely developed far from the main motorways network: to move in any direction one must drive through A LOT of city roads, so a place like Kijkduin feels like it is in the far corner of the world...
> 
> I'd like to understand if there are plans to improve this situation. I'm not a fan of heavy urban infrastructures at all costs, but at the moment this is a large city that feels more like a giant village... and this feeling is not limited to the road network, but rather to the general setup and soul of the city.


The Hague's problem is that it was never meant to be a city. It was a rural retreat where the Estates General (the leaders of the cities and provinces of the old Republic) would meet. Its development was basically unintended and sort of spiraled out of control. 

That bigass park outside Central Station is an old hunting ground protected from any development by law (the law in question is still valid). This had a major impact on how the city grew.

The city was never meant to have its own port, so there are no historic links to major water bodies. It later enveloped Scheveningen, but this is awkward. Any other city would have been built up around the _Center-Scheveningen axis_ with developments to both the North and the South. But The Hague, because of that protected hunting ground, could only develop Southwards. This means there's a disproportionate number of suburbs piled on top of each other to the South of the city center (towards Westland).

It's a lopsided city, really. And one without a ring road because of the North Sea. So yeah, if you wanna go from Voorburg to Kijkduin... Good luck.


----------



## Road_UK

I'm sure Suburbanist will come up with a neat design to run stacked motorways through the city including one on the Scheveningen boulevard and one through Madurodam...


----------



## MrAronymous

ChrisZwolle said:


> The exits of A8 received new names;
> ...
> The municipality of Zaanstad is a collection of towns and villages grown into one city of 150,000 inhabitants, the largest city is Zaandam with 72,500 inhabitants. The Zaan area is one of the oldest industrial areas of Europe (mostly light industry). It had one of the biggest concentration of industry in the 17th and 18th centuries. Even whaling was an industry.


Does anyone know when the name 'Zaanstad' became widespread? Because I think I'm not the only one when I say it confuses the hell out of me. I know the word stad originally meant 'place' in the litteral sense, it's now only used as the word 'city'. So there's a municipality which is called 'Zaan city', but the biggest city is Zaan_dam_ (a more general name which doesn't really have to refer to a city/town per se, but could also be used as a name for a region). I always tend to confuse them with each other. Don't think the new names are really an improvement, as it's much more vague now. I've heard residents with the same complaint. But then again I rarely ever come there so don't know how much worse/better the new names are.


----------



## Suburbanist

Will other muncipalities that are the result of such merges follow suit, like Waterland or Drechterland? 

Incidental question: is there a reason for mergers between former separated _gemeenten_ to have taken place on Noord-Holland more than in other provinces?


----------



## Road_UK

You mean Friesland?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Leiden*

There was an open day at the aquaduct at Leiden today. The name of the aquaduct was unveiled as the 'Limes Aquaduct'. It is huge, the current setup is 2x3 lanes, but there's easily space to expand that to 2x5 lanes, probably even 2x6 lanes as there is another 4 m of space on the right side of the shoulder.

Both 'tubes' (it's not actually a tunnel) are 25.9 meters wide, divided by 3.5 m per lane that means 7.4 lanes or 6 lanes, a shoulder and narrow left shoulder. It is built in a way that it would never require an expansion again, even if traffic volumes would double to 250,000 vehicles per day.


DSC_0031.jpg by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0013.jpg by jeroenvanlieshout, 
on Flickr


DSC_0014.jpg by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr


----------



## aswnl

MrAronymous said:


> Does anyone know when the name 'Zaanstad' became widespread? Because I think I'm not the only one when I say it confuses the hell out of me. I know the word stad originally meant 'place' in the litteral sense, it's now only used as the word 'city'. So there's a municipality which is called 'Zaan city', but the biggest city is Zaan_dam_ (a more general name which doesn't really have to refer to a city/town per se, but could also be used as a name for a region). I always tend to confuse them with each other. Don't think the new names are really an improvement, as it's much more vague now. I've heard residents with the same complaint. But then again I rarely ever come there so don't know how much worse/better the new names are.


Zaanstad had been introduced in 1974 (40 years ago) and subsequently been signed since then from further away. However, within Zaanstad the old names prevailed - until two years ago. Now the old names are just boroughs and districts within Zaanstad.

NB: the new names on the signs are a lot less vague. Local people always have used the names Westerkoog amd Rooswijk, and very nearby exit 2 you'll find the railway station "Koog-Zaandijk".


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*ARC Bridges*

Bridges across the Amsterdam-Rhine Canal near Amsterdam.

A1 Muiden Bridge. An 11-lane motorway bridge with a detached free-span bike bridge behind it. Opened 1970, modified 2010.

A1 Muiderbrug by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

Construction of the second Muiden Bridge, part of A9. It will carry 9 lanes, so that there will be 20 lanes of traffic crossing the canal at this location. It will open around 2016.

A9 Tweede Muiderbrug-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

The Uylland Bridge, part of s114, a city route of Amsterdam. It is the eastern access to the IJburg development. The bridge opened to traffic in July 2014.

Uyllanderbrug by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

Combined, there will be 5 bridges across the Amsterdam-Rhine Canal within 1.5 km:

* Uylland Bridge (s114)
* Muiden Bridge (bicycles)
* Muiden Bridge (A1)
* 2nd Muiden Bridge (A9)
* Muiden Rail Bridge (twin span)


----------



## woutero

Suburbanist said:


> Will other muncipalities that are the result of such merges follow suit, like Waterland or Drechterland?


No - It was a decision of the municipality of Zaanstad to become one city in stead of a collection of cities/towns/villages under one municipal government. In part that makes some sense as it is all one built up connected area along the Zaan river, but in practice the people keep using the old names.

AFAIK no other merger-municipality has changed the names of built up areas or tried to merge them. The municipal mergers only reflect a change in the organization of the municipal government. People usually do not use the name of their municipality, and they are also not used for signage.



Suburbanist said:


> Incidental question: is there a reason for mergers between former separated _gemeenten_ to have taken place on Noord-Holland more than in other provinces?


I don't think that is the case. Mergers have been especially present in sparsely populated areas. Friesland, Drenthe, Zeeland and to a lesser extent Groningen and parts of Gelderland and Overijssel have seen more mergers in my opinion.

Here's a map of NL municipalities:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/2014-NL-Gemeenten-2400px.png

In 1817 there were 1.236 municipalities in NL. On 1 Jan 2014 there were 403.


----------



## Wilhem275

Slagathor said:


> It's a lopsided city, really. And one without a ring road because of the North Sea. So yeah, if you wanna go from Voorburg to Kijkduin... Good luck.





Road_UK said:


> I'm sure Suburbanist will come up with a neat design to run stacked motorways through the city including one on the Scheveningen boulevard and one through Madurodam...


Actually the S200 is almost running thorugh Madurodam 

But I think there is room for some improvements, without going full-Suburbanist  like a bunch of grade separations on N44 and S200 which don't need whole neighbourhoods to be leveled.

The N44 decision is something I don't get. The problem here is that most of the city is far from main motorways; there's this main road that connects a bit better but no, the decision is to try to get traffic back to A4 (far again).
Ok, N44 is "a rural road which grew too much" and runs through villages, but it's already there...

In general, I don't understand the current state of Den Haag urban development. I don't get if its expansion was a recent phenomenon and large scale planning is foreseen somewhere in the future, or if there was a deliberate decision to just let things the way they are.

I mean, the scale of the place is pretty serious now, it's about time to become a real city


----------



## aswnl

Suburbanist said:


> is there a reason for mergers between former separated _gemeenten_ to have taken place on Noord-Holland more than in other provinces?


Sometimes there is a specific reason: i.e. the Zuiderzee-waterfloodings of 1916 resulted in a lot of former Waterland-municipalities merging with Amsterdam, because they couldn't pay themselves for rebuilding the area. Subsequently they lost their self-governance and became part of Amsterdam(-Noord) - like Buiksloot, Schellingwoude, Durgerdam, Zunderdorp, Holysloot, etcetera.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N261 Tilburg - Waalwijk*

Aerial images of the N261 upgrade between Tilburg and Waalwijk. The A261 segment has been lost though, but N261 will be a 100 km/h free-flow expressway.

1. Interchange with A59.









2. Interchange with 'Professor Kamerlingh Onnesweg'.


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## junky

ChrisZwolle said:


> Planned aquaduct under two canals at Beek en Donk (east of Eindhoven), part of a new 80 km/h, grade-separated expressway from A50 at Eindhoven to N279 near Gemert.


When should this be constructed/finished?


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## ChrisZwolle

Within a few years. The provincial government selected the preferred alternative recently.


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## ChrisZwolle

*glow-in-the-dark, N329, Oss*

The 'glow-in-the-dark' road markings on N329 should be working again.










They implemented it early this year, but it was soon reported they didn't work at all (after going across the world media).


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## Autoputevi kao hobi

Is there any motorway section which is going to be U/C soon ?
I think that once when they finish with the A4 there is not going to be a motorway which needs to be built.


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## MrAronymous

Well, A2 is still under construction. And they are going to widen some motorways. But not build any new ones as far as I know.


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## Suburbanist

Won't they extend A8?


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## Road_UK

To where? There's already the A7 on a small stroke of land, and there's not a lot of Netherlands left beyond the A7...


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## Suburbanist

Road_UK said:


> To where? There's already the A7 on a small stroke of land, and there's not a lot of Netherlands left beyond the A7...


Linking A8 with A9 in Uitgeest.


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## Road_UK

That's already being served by a dual carriageway, and I don't think the volumes of traffic requires a motorway upgrade. The existing A8, together with A5, A7 and A10 in the area should be more than sufficient.


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## verfmeer

Under construction:
A4 Dinteloord-Halsteren (due 29-11-2014)
N31 Bypass Leeuwarden (due 12-2014)
A4 Delft-Kethelplein (due 2015)
N62 Sluiskiltunnel (due 2015)
A2 Maastricht (due 2016)
A9 Bypass Badhoevedorp (due 2018)
A1/A9 Muiden-Weesp realignment (due 2020)

Procedures are running for:
A24 between A20 and A15
A15 between Ressen and A12
N62 between N61 and Belgium
A13/A16 between Terbregseplein and A13
N69 between A67 and Belgium
N11 between A4 and A44
A8 between A7 and A9
N58 between Eindhoven, Helmond and Asten


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## keokiracer

Road_UK said:


> That's already being served by a dual carriageway, and I don't think the volumes of traffic requires a motorway upgrade. The existing A8, together with A5, A7 and A10 in the area should be more than sufficient.


There's way too much traffic in the built-up area of Krommenie, which is why the Noord-Holland province is looking to build the A8-A9 link themselves as an expressway. They're currently busy choosing a preferred alternative. The most likely alternative will be the one that would link the A8 (well N8, probably with another number as well) to the A9 at the Heemskerk exit.


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## EPA001

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> Is there any motorway section which is going to be U/C soon ? I think that once when they finish with the A4 *there is not going to be a motorway which needs to be built.*


There are still motorways which need to be built in The Netherlands, but sadly enough not for all is there funding available. The same goes for some motorways which need additional lanes desperately but which will have to wait until funding becomes available.


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## Kanadzie

Road_UK said:


> To where? There's already the A7 on a small stroke of land, and there's not a lot of Netherlands left beyond the A7...


it won't be long, there will be more Netherlands there in a few years anyhow


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## ChasingCars

*Decrease of congestion in The Netherlands stopped*

After years of continuous decrease in congestion, the trend has stopped. For the first time in years congestion on major roads is up again, albeit slightly, compared to 4 months ago. The increase is said to be mostly weather-related and due to specific roadworks, according to Dutch road authority Rijkswaterstaat.
Article (in Dutch only): http://nos.nl/artikel/712201-files-worden-niet-meer-minder.html


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ development of traffic congestion since 2000:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15, Botlek Bridge, Rotterdam*

Old & New










By De Fotograaf


----------



## EPA001

^^ The new bridge is so much bigger in every aspect compared to the old one. This will be a huge improvement for the traffic there. And it is a badly needed one.



ChasingCars said:


> After years of continuous decrease in congestion, the trend has stopped. For the first time in years congestion on major roads is up again, albeit slightly, compared to 4 months ago. The increase is said to be mostly weather-related and due to specific roadworks, according to Dutch road authority Rijkswaterstaat.
> Article (in Dutch only): http://nos.nl/artikel/712201-files-worden-niet-meer-minder.html


^^ With the Top-4 of traffic jams all around or at Rotterdam. Expansions are desperately needed.

Article (in Dutch only): 
*Rotterdam Area again frontrunner in traffic jam top 10*


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 -A44 link, Leiden*

Renders of the 'Rijnlandroute' (RLR) a planned expressway that will link A4 and A44 south of Leiden.

1. The A4-RLR interchange.









2. Looking north along A4.









3. The A44-RLR interchange.









4. A44 will be widened from 4 to 8 lanes.









5. Rijnlandroute & new aquaduct.


----------



## Wilhem275

I can't find the info right now: what is the situation about A4 south of Rotterdam? Any procedure going on, or it isn't even under discussion?

Maybe it's not so important, in the end you need it to access just Zeeland and Bergen o.Z. from N+Z Holland, for everything else there are better alternatives.
Is A15 enough for its volumes?



ChrisZwolle said:


> Renders of the 'Rijnlandroute' (RLR) a planned expressway that will link A4 and A44 south of Leiden.


Again, sorry for the repetition: it's not clear to me why they chose this (not cheap) project instead of improving the only existing alternative access to Den Haag.

I remember you posted projections about the dicrease of traffic on N44 due to this, which is indeed an improvement itself.
So, less traffic on N44 + better connection from Leiden and the coast towards South was seen as better than completing A44, right?


----------



## Slagathor

There will soon be only 1 missing link left in the A4: the A4 Hoeksche Waard. I guess that's the one you're referring to:










That one's not happening any time soon. Environmental and NIMBY opposition times a thousand.

It would actually be an important link between the ports of Rotterdam and Antwerp so the economic incentive is there, really.


----------



## EPA001

^^ And it would be so good and only logical to have this (soon to be) only missing link in the A4-South available to traffic. Also the city of Spijkenisse desperately needs an additional exit to be less dependent on the Spijkenissebrug en Hartelbrug connections with the most cities of the region.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Wilhem275 said:


> Again, sorry for the repetition: it's not clear to me why they chose this (not cheap) project instead of improving the only existing alternative access to Den Haag.


The 'Rijnlandroute' will not be build to relieve Den Haag, but to relieve the city of Leiden from east-west traffic. There is currently no decent east-westroute between densely populated Leiden / western suburbs & towns, and N11 towards Alphen / Utrecht.

As part of a separate project, A12 in Den Haag will be relieved by several upgrades;

* N14 grade-separation
* A13 extension (Rotterdamsebaan)
* Prinses Beatrixlaan grade-separation
* N211 grade-separation

So there will be 5 high-standard routes into the Den Haag area instead of just 1.



Slagathor said:


> That one's not happening any time soon. Environmental and NIMBY opposition times a thousand.


It's not on the national political priorities and there is no funding for it until well after 2020. I don't think it's feasible as a toll road, just like the A16 extension to A13 wasn't feasible as a toll road.

With the current outlook, I expect no A4 south before 2030.


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## Wilhem275

Yep, exactly that one. The existing detour via A15 is just 11 km longer, so not a terrible deal IMHO; but since the capacity around Rotterdam seems to be so problematic, I wonder if the widened A15 will last long enough.

Probably, around Rotterdam, having a backup route to distribute traffic should have a high value.



ChrisZwolle said:


> As part of a separate project, A12 in Den Haag will be relieved by several upgrades;
> 
> * N14 grade-separation
> * A13 extension (Rotterdamsebaan)
> * Prinses Beatrixlaan grade-separation
> * N211 grade-separation


Well, finally!


----------



## verfmeer

At the moment, Rotterdam is getting a great upgrade in transport. With the A4 completed at Midden Delfland and Steenbergen, the A13-A20-A16 route will see a decrease in traffic. Although it is great news, it doesn't solve all the problems. On the east side the problems remain.

The A20 Gouwe-Terbregseplein is now the most congested motorway in the Netherlands. It isn't far away from the most congested road in the Netherlands, the N210 Algerabrug. The intensities of this bridge is 50% higher than its theoritical capacity, causing huge traffic jams.

To solve those problems, new roads are needed. One of the best options is extending the A38 to the A20. It would be a ring road around the suburbs of Capelle a/d IJssel and Krimpen a/d IJssel, and would give traffic between Gouda and Rotterdam-South/Dordrecht a shorter alternative.

Although it would be very costly due to 2 river crossings, it would greatly relieve traffic in the region, improving the accessability of the region.
Therefore, I think it is something that should be seriously considered.


----------



## Suburbanist

What about the A16 extension to A13?


----------



## Road_UK

Through central Rotterdam? Otherwise a link is provided via A20...


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## keokiracer

Slagathor said:


> There will soon be only 1 missing link left in the A4: the A4 Hoeksche Waard. I guess that's the one you're referring to:


I really hate it that people call that part the A4-South, the actual A4-South is at Steenbergen, not near Rotterdam hno:


----------



## sotonsi

Road_UK said:


> Through central Rotterdam?


Around the edge, assuming you are talking about the A16 extension.

A least some of the link has been on OSM for years http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/51.9582/4.4967

and a quick google for 'a13 - A16 link rotterdam' provides things like http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verbindingsweg_A13/A16


> Otherwise a link is provided via A20...


Which, as pointed out by verfmeer, is very congested!


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## Road_UK

Trust me, he's not joking. A joke normally lasts for a few minutes only, he's been at it for years now. He has come to Europe with a vision: one big suburban area with lots of stacked motorways.


----------



## Wilhem275

After years of reading, I seriously can't say if he's trolling or he's serious, and I like the mistery about it.

Either way, I sincerely admire him for his constance and for the consistency of his arguments. Never seen a half assed job from him. Also never been rude.

I think it's important, in a discussion, to have a moderate but constant flow of wrong or absurd ideas. Starting from Subi's deranged visions a lot of interesting explanations were expressed over the years.
"Obvious things need to be repeated, in order to remain obvious" 

And if he's a troll... well, the best troll ever seen in the Internet. The border between insanity and genius is always thin...


----------



## Kanadzie

Road_UK said:


> Trust me, he's not joking. A joke normally lasts for a few minutes only, he's been at it for years now. He has come to Europe with a vision: one big suburban area with lots of stacked motorways.


NL is ideally suited to suburban development though, it is the only country with essentially limitless landmass:banana:


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## Road_UK

I don't think he's a troll. He's intelligent and knows are thing or two about roads and railroads. It's just that he has a very bad taste in society, in where he believes in concrete and futuristic progress without room for nature and beauty.

By the way, do you think he can hear us?


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## Wilhem275

I hope


----------



## Penn's Woods

Road_UK said:


> Trust me, he's not joking. A joke normally lasts for a few minutes only, he's been at it for years now. He has come to Europe with a vision: one big suburban area with lots of stacked motorways.


Could have been self-parody.


----------



## Wilhem275

Or self-trolling :troll:

Btw, it's late night here, we are justified for this incontrollable flow of inane chatter. What's your reason? :lol:


----------



## Penn's Woods

I can chatter inanely on demand, at any time of day.

And also, my sinuses are killing me.


----------



## Des

da_scotty said:


> Hmmm I thought we should link London and Rotterdam... it's only water.....


That can be done! If we keep expanding the Maasvlakte at the current rate we should reach England in 2621 and we can charge mega money for use of the Suez like shipping canal :banana:


----------



## Wilhem275

Two possible alternatives for my beloved Lekbaan concept:










A bit inspired by the rail network... the Woerden - Breukelen line was actually used by direct services Amsterdam - Rotterdam.

The main difference between these two is what part of the Utrecht node will see more or less traffic.

With the Breukelen link (red) A2 and Oudenrijn see less traffic, but A12 keeps being loaded with traffic from Eastern regions, till Woerden (which is also the limit of the suburban area). This is also definitely the fastest link from Amsterdam to Rotterdam, whatever the destination is (A20 or A15), with advantages for A4, Schiphol and Haaglandia.
Here the road can be built parallel to the railway, till knooppunt Harmelen.

Otherwise (blue) A12 keeps lighter traffic, especially between Lunetten and Oudenrijn; but A2 keeps getting loaded all the way through Utrecht suburban area by traffic from the North.

So, it all depends on the foreseen conditions of A2 and A12 in the Utrecht area, which I don't know in detail.
By instinct I'd go with the red one, because (Lekbaan or not) traffic from East will use A12 through Utrecht anyway.

Or we can build both 


Let aside fantasies, I'm convinced the way to have a functional Rotterdam node is to provide a completely independent access to Southern Rotterdam (= a tiny port) that doesn't require to cross the city using the existing paths (that's why I'm specifically avoiding any link to A20).
As said by Chris, all this amount of parallel motorways may be seen as a total overkill, but this fake countryside is in fact part of a highly populated suburban area and the network density is even low today.

In another setting, I would consider pure idiocy building an A4 at Delft while there is a parallel A13 a few steps away. But in this scenario there is a good reason to have it this way.

What I have in mind with this concept is not giving a specific new main route that everyone has to follow, but rather distributing fluxes over the network, to avoid the complete collapse with gridlocks all over the area every time one thing goes wrong in one corner...
With this amount of traffic, concentrating everything on A20 and A12 is dangerous... with no alternative routes, if ever there's a problem there the whole network is majestically screwed.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Kanadzie said:


> NL is ideally suited to suburban development though, it is the only country with essentially limitless landmass:banana:


Unless you put so much crap on it that it sinks.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Wilhem275 said:


> What I have in mind with this concept is not giving a specific new main route that everyone has to follow, but rather distributing fluxes over the network, to avoid the complete collapse with gridlocks all over the area every time one thing goes wrong in one corner...
> With this amount of traffic, concentrating everything on A20 and A12 is dangerous... with no alternative routes, if ever there's a problem there the whole network is majestically screwed.


A 'robust road network'. Everytime this concept is destroyed by policymakers who think we should utilize existing infrastructure to the absolute maximum, thereby creating a situation that even a small incident can gridlock a whole region. Belgium often has this problem on R0 and R1, and the Netherlands used to be very problematic before 2008 as well. 

A 'robust network' can be seen with two options; alternate routes and spare capacity. Although the Dutch motorway network is dense for a national network, the amount of alternate routes for the heavy regional commuting traffic is limited. 

The Dutch network has somewhat of an identity problem, it's denser than most national networks, but it lacks the local feeder routes of a metropolitan motorway & expressway system. The fact that provincial roads are all low-capacity doesn't really help either. Nowhere are the provincial roads so inadequate as in western Netherlands.


----------



## Slagathor

Wilhem275 said:


> Two possible alternatives for my beloved Lekbaan concept:
> 
> 
> 
> A bit inspired by the rail network... the Woerden - Breukelen line was actually used by direct services Amsterdam - Rotterdam.
> 
> The main difference between these two is what part of the Utrecht node will see more or less traffic.
> 
> With the Breukelen link (red) A2 and Oudenrijn see less traffic, but A12 keeps being loaded with traffic from Eastern regions, till Woerden (which is also the limit of the suburban area). This is also definitely the fastest link from Amsterdam to Rotterdam, whatever the destination is (A20 or A15), with advantages for A4, Schiphol and Haaglandia.
> Here the road can be built parallel to the railway, till knooppunt Harmelen.
> 
> Otherwise (blue) A12 keeps lighter traffic, especially between Lunetten and Oudenrijn; but A2 keeps getting loaded all the way through Utrecht suburban area by traffic from the North.
> 
> So, it all depends on the foreseen conditions of A2 and A12 in the Utrecht area, which I don't know in detail.
> By instinct I'd go with the red one, because (Lekbaan or not) traffic from East will use A12 through Utrecht anyway.
> 
> Or we can build both :D
> 
> 
> Let aside fantasies, I'm convinced the way to have a functional Rotterdam node is to provide a completely independent access to Southern Rotterdam (= a tiny port) that doesn't require to cross the city using the existing paths (that's why I'm specifically avoiding any link to A20).
> As said by Chris, all this amount of parallel motorways may be seen as a total overkill, but this fake countryside is in fact part of a highly populated suburban area and the network density is even low today.
> 
> In another setting, I would consider pure idiocy building an A4 at Delft while there is a parallel A13 a few steps away. But in this scenario there is a good reason to have it this way.
> 
> What I have in mind with this concept is not giving a specific new main route that everyone has to follow, but rather distributing fluxes over the network, to avoid the complete collapse with gridlocks all over the area every time one thing goes wrong in one corner...
> With this amount of traffic, concentrating everything on A20 and A12 is dangerous... with no alternative routes, if ever there's a problem there the whole network is majestically screwed.[/QUOTE]
> 
> "fake countryside" - maybe to an Italian, but we don't have any Alps or Amalfi Coast. We could pave over the whole country on that premise!
> 
> I think the best you might conceivably hope for is an upgrade of the N210 to a 2x2 provincial road with 100km/h as maximum speed. If you could couple that with an upgrade of the N207-N216 link between Gouda and Gorinchem, you'd have a pretty decent back-up link.
> 
> [IMG]http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/daquanqm/N210_zpsec7e6fac.jpg~original


----------



## snowdog

I completely agree with suburbanist.
They should make the Maasboulevard, at least to the S100/Oostplein, an urban expressway, only 2 viaducts required. 1 near Woudenstein, and one near Willem Ruyslaan.
And the ''green wave'' of Traffic lights should be used/enabled more often beyond that.

I'm all for a 2x2 lane grade separated N210 along with a link to Ridderkerk.

I Live in Capelle ad IJssel, I have all the worst congestion of the country all around me .


> He has come to Europe with a vision: one big suburban area with lots of stacked motorways.


And what a nice vision it is . Much better than the boring stuff we have in Holland now .


----------



## Suburbanist

Some people are putting words in my mouth. 

Rotterdam is my favorite city in Netherlands.

Take a look at this route. It comprises mostly a wide boulevard which already has local lanes. They could build trenches (thus no "viaduct eyesore") on the crossings and therefore get grade separation for the entire route, save for a new tunnel that would be needed near Zuidplein. Of course this would use the Maastunnel to cross the river.

That way, traffic could be whiskered out of Rotterdam more easily into the highways.

The Maasboulevard could also be grade-separated with ease, using a combination of viaduct and trenches, none of the viaducts being long elevated structures close to buildings.

I also think they missed an opportunity to build a double-deck rail/road tunnel when they put the rail tracks between R'dam Centraal and R'dam Zuid underground. With a very easy connection (through industrial parks and the vicinity of the Kuip stadium), it could be connected to A16 and there would be an expressway linking the very central are of the city to points East and South.


----------



## Wilhem275

Slagathor said:


> "fake countryside" - maybe to an Italian, but we don't have any Alps or Amalfi Coast. We could pave over the whole country on that premise!


I was really looking to be kicked, with that 

Nah, it's a nice countryside and it should be respected (you don't want to end up like Belgium, here :troll.
But the uncommon setup with very large cities separated by a thin strip of nothing makes it not easy to leave the land completely untouched. In general all the land surrounding any city is at risk, sooner or later, of being used for infrastructures. Since here cities are very close to each other, the "risky area" ends up to be the whole land between built-up areas.

So I would not see a scandal in building a new motorway in the fields (integrating it with some decency), as long as this doesn't bring uncontrolled urban sprawl in green areas. The problem is not the road itself, it's the bunch of ugly buildings that may surround it...


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ Almost all of the "countryside" of Randstad and surrounding fringes is very heavily managed, even the supposedly natural areas like the Biesboch or the Vinkeveense Plassen. They only exist as such because there is intensive, round-the-clock water control, and frequent landscaping to keep them pretty, else they'd turn into bogged muddy fields with overgrown grass. 

In any case, there is still the option of completing the drainage and polderization of the Markermeer to expand the buildable area of Randstad, as originally planned.

Road building and sprawl are very separate entities in Netherlands, due to the harsh and very strict planning laws that all but outlaw makeshift scattered development of new areas, no matter how convenient transportation is, without a formal planning process lead by cities and provinces. This should be really a non-issue. The only possible "sprawl" possible would be for very rich people to buy out small active farms, then stop farming and use the house existing there, if anything. But many farms don't even have a in-situ residential property, which means it is all but impossible to build a new residence there, and if that was not enough, farmland is very expensive so it would cost really a lot of money to "retire" a farm. Self-subdivision Belgian-style is just illegal in Netherlands.


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## Wilhem275

Thank God...


----------



## Road_UK

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ Almost all of the "countryside" of Randstad and surrounding fringes is very heavily managed, even the supposedly natural areas like the Biesboch or the Vinkeveense Plassen. They only exist as such because there is intensive, round-the-clock water control, and frequent landscaping to keep them pretty, else they'd turn into bogged muddy fields with overgrown grass.
> 
> In any case, there is still the option of completing the drainage and polderization of the Markermeer to expand the buildable area of Randstad, as originally planned.
> 
> Road building and sprawl are very separate entities in Netherlands, due to the harsh and very strict planning laws that all but outlaw makeshift scattered development of new areas, no matter how convenient transportation is, without a formal planning process lead by cities and provinces. This should be really a non-issue. The only possible "sprawl" possible would be for very rich people to buy out small active farms, then stop farming and use the house existing there, if anything. But many farms don't even have a in-situ residential property, which means it is all but impossible to build a new residence there, and if that was not enough, farmland is very expensive so it would cost really a lot of money to "retire" a farm. Self-subdivision Belgian-style is just illegal in Netherlands.


You have no idea about Dutch countryside and what it means to the locals, because you are blinded with thoughts of building this huge city-state! With what right do you come to the Netherlands, and dictate how you think it should be when nobody around you wants it that way, apart from your new pal Snowdog perhaps...


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## ChrisZwolle

*statistics*

Some statistics.

Driving by motive (billion traveler kms, driver only)









*WORK
EDUCATION
SHOPPING
SOCIAL-RECREATIVE*


The modal split by distance & trips









*CAR DRIVER
CAR PASSENGER
BICYCLE
TRAIN
BUS/TRAM/SUBWAY
MOPED
WALKING
OTHER*


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## Wilhem275

Today begins my 3rd month living in NL, so I'm drawing some mid-term conclusions.

I already knew and used the road infrastructure, so there isn't much I needed to get used to (apart from merging tapers ).

In general the infrastructure shows always good quality in terms of design, building and maintenance, much above European average (probably on top).
I was a bit surprised to see how much of the system relies on traffic lights, but the good management makes them perform much better than in the rest of Europe.
Some advanced solutions also to manage public transport among traffic.

Some thoughts about behaviours on the road.
In general, I was expecting a general higher precision in driving (at a German level), for example less erratical driving and better usage of turning signals; sometimes I just see some very clumsy driving 
I don't want to make a point here, but I notice a sensible difference in the driving behaviours of immigrants (often more aggressive), I suspect many didn't get their license here.


Crossings. It may sound stupid, but I actually think motorists stop _too early _for pedestrians at crossings.
"Minimum" is to have cars not hitting me.
"Decent" is to have cars stop when they see me waiting.
"Good" is to have cars stop before I have to wait for them.

Here they stop ten minutes before I can reach the crossing :lol:
For sure I'm conditioned by years of habitude in a place that floats between "Minimum" and "Decent" (I tend to stay one step beyond, as a driver), but here I often see traffic stopping for me while at least one or two cars could have passed without me even noticing.










This overkindness goes in total contrast with the aggressive approach of cyclists at intersections. I mean, I agree that pedestrians must not jaywalk on bike paths, but there are some points where a crossing is needed and in no way the pedestrian is granted this, and cyclists will be very aggressive in remarking that (and even if there's a zebra, they often don't give a damn).

Example: http://goo.gl/maps/8p2hD Of course one is supposed to cross also the bike lane, but no zebra there... :?

The Belgian Road Rules now state that every user has a responsibility towards the weaker one, here it seems like cyclists have absolute sovereign.


Anyway, the big deal, the only thing that really gets me, are mopeds on bike lanes. I hoped for a total ban in the first minute I was here, I still do multiple times every given day.
I won't write a long list of reasons because they're well explained in this article, I'll just point out that:
- what scares me is the mass of these full grown vehicles. I'm not sure I'd want them around even if they actually did 25;
- the right to use bike paths leads a lot of motor vehicles into areas that were meant as peaceful traffic free plazas, and where people won't even expect anything faster than 20;
- the average speed is completely out of control.

I think this whole situation is beyond control and must be stopped now. I see a quantity of near misses, I'm surprised the amount of accidents is not a national priority.
We basically have the same confused cloud of mopeds believing to be at the MotoGP, like in the Italian cities, with the difference that there they endanger themselves in traffic, here they use pedestrians and cyclists as obstacles (and in Italy they must wear a helmet).

The technical level of scooters today allows them to be safely driven in traffic, and I'm pretty sure Dutch car drivers will easily cope with them.
And if some owners prefer to enjoy the protection of bike paths, it's their problem. For sure some car drivers would like to enjoy driving on bike paths as well, but for some reasons it's forbidden...


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## ChrisZwolle

*A4, Leiden*

The second 'Limes Aquaduct' opened to traffic this night. Traffic has been shifted onto the new northbound aquaduct, so traffic is now separated. 

The image is looking north.









The layout of 1+2+2+1 south of the aquaduct has been critized. It is feared that they both don't have sufficient capacity (flexibility) compared to 2x3. It would've been better with 2x3 plus auxiliary lanes between the two exits that the local lanes serve.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N15, Maasvlakte*

The Colorado Viaduct opened to traffic on October 13. It is located at the former N15 across the 'Maasvlakte', the western part of the Port of Rotterdam. It features grade-separated access into the APM Terminals and Euro Container Terminals. On top is an elevated intersection with Dardanellenstraat.


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## snowdog

> Anyway, the big deal, the only thing that really gets me, are mopeds on bike lanes. I hoped for a total ban in the first minute I was here, I still do multiple times every given day.


I personally disagree, these are the only way to get around quickly from A to B while avoiding annoying traffic lights ( cycle tunnels), having to drive around places, etc, in a built up area. Motorbike is even slower often, let alone car, or public transport.

Though an e-bike or racing bikes are a decent way to get around too I guess. But meh, motorised is the way forward, only really use the racing bike when I'm drunk or planning to get drunk.

Banning them is nothing more than a blatant attack on mobility. And people rather spend as little time as possible in traffic. Banning them would mean the existing infrastructure, cycle paths, would be much less utalized and thus wasted. Not to mention the extra traffic on the roads for cars, which means more congestion.

I use a scooter or a smaller moped ( Tomos) to go to work or uni daily ( unless it's bad weather, then sometimes depending on where I need to be, a car, or the metro), it's the fastest, cheapest and most practical way to get around. Also most stable ( unaffected by congestion). 5 euros of petrol gets me around for 4 days, while using the metro costs 5 euro every day for the same trips.


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## julesstoop

Wilhem275 said:


> Today begins my 3rd month living in NL, so I'm drawing some mid-term conclusions.
> [...]
> 
> Anyway, the big deal, the only thing that really gets me, are mopeds on bike lanes. I hoped for a total ban in the first minute I was here, I still do multiple times every given day.


Couldn't agree more. Especially the fact that their design (and weight) is generally similar do that of a full blown scooter, they drive faster than 25kph most of the time (and they stink and probably pollute like hell) makes them a very undesirable addition to our bike lanes. We should get rid of them as fast as we can. 

I'm not sensitive at all to Snowdog's mobility argument. At the cost of all these downsides, a scooter won't even get you from A to B much faster than a bike most of the time. Besides: since when is traveling faster at the expense of others a human right? I'd say safety and clean air are much more important causes to strive for.


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## snowdog

julesstoop said:


> C
> 
> I'm not sensitive at all to Snowdog's mobility argument. At the cost of all these downsides, a scooter wont get you from A to B much faster than a bike. Besides: since when is traveling faster at the expense of others a human right? I'd say safety and clean air are much more important causes to strive for.


Where do you draw the line ?

Our parents have survived decades of much worse air quality and road safety ?

And a scooter is easily 30-50% faster, even if you're fast cycler ( say 25+ km/h ).


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## Wilhem275

Nobody wants to ban mopeds. I think they are, overall, more efficient and effective than cars in a urban environment. But they have to express their performance on the road, as any motor vehicle.

The point is that today's scooters have a road-wise performance and thus they better mix with cars than with bikes.
The Dutch road infrastructure is designed with very detailed specifications, depending on separate classes of vehicles that will use different paths. Bike lanes are simply not designed to cope with a large amount of fast mopeds.
A motorway could easily accommodate pedestrians walking along its emergency lane, but there are some technical reasons which suggested to ban this possibility.


I've also seen around some real mopeds (closer to a bike with an engine), driving at bike speeds, and they were of no harm. But they are less than 1% of all motorized traffic on bike lanes...


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## snowdog

This will further increase congestion on the road though, and I personally doubt, that if the same amount of blue plated scooters, start driving between the cars, that that's beneficial for the safety. I think it'll cause many extra accidents on the road. Bar a few exceptions, you don't see cyclists mobility being negatively affected by scooters. Most of the cycle paths easily have much more capacity. The main advantage in the suburbs is being able to avoid many ''anti traffic'' routes ( having to drive around instead of through somewhere), avoiding intersections ( due to all the tunnels for cyclists), etc...

I personally think a slow device that goes 60 km/h max realistically, does not belong between the cars. That is a much bigger problem for safety than for cyclists.

It'd be a different story if we'd have nice wide roads that are quiet in the city, but the reality is city roads are narrow, congested, and filled with annoyed drivers that sometimes behave erratically. I get cut off daily here where cars share the roads with cyclists and mopeds :
http://goo.gl/maps/hiHEX
I got used to it, but if I'd purely follow the traffic laws ( eg. not brake when I expect that a car hasn't seen me/take my right of way), I'd have collisions every week here.


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## ChrisZwolle

I agree, mopeds should be allowed to drive 50 km/h, and use the general roads. 

The stupid 25 km/h moped variant is a typical Dutch thing that is called the 'polder model'. Instead of drawing a pragmatic line, they want to please everyone and the result are this kind of stupid regulations that you generally don't see elsewhere. On paper you have 25 km/h mopeds within bicycle traffic, in reality you have Schumachers doing 50 km/h and swerving around annoying obstacles also known as bicyclists.


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## Suburbanist

Beware what you wish for.

As someone with extensive driving experience in Italy, a country where road-able mini-bikes /mopeds/vespas are very common, I can assure the presence of a large number of 2-wheeled vehicles on city traffic greatly increases the hassles of city driving, especially once their ability to swerve between lines of stagnant 4-wheel vehicles become socially accepted as a norm. It puts cars and even more van/truck drivers on high alert, and it creates a lot of hostility in driving, as 2-wheel drivers plow through congested streets and expect cars to give them room (such as pulling to the sides of a traffic line so they can cut you on a traffic light stop line). 

Having blue-plated mopeds, many used by minors with no training on car traffic as drivers, is a receipt for chaotic streets.

What about abolishing the whole "snorfiets" category, creating a rigidly defined category for e-bicycles, and treating all the rest as motorbikes?

At the very least, they should do away with speed limiters to classify vehicles as snorfiets. The power unit should be physically constructed in a way that can't deliver more than a set amount of kW/weight


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## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> in reality you have Schumachers doing 50 km/h and swerving around *annoying obstacles also known as bicyclists*.


:lol::cheers:.

During rush hour, everyone is annoying obstacle . Be it cars, cyclists, etc.

I live in a municipality where luckily pretty much all cycle paths are ''bromfietspaden'', which means a yellow plated 45km/h scooter can also legally go on them. Rotterdam on the other hand, is a chaos if you happen to drive a yellow plated scooter. You keep swerving between cycle paths and roads if follow the rules.


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## Wilhem275

"Polderen" was the first thing they told us in the Dutch Culture course 

I don't see cyclists mobility being negatively affected by scooters, I see their _safety _being affected by scooters, a lot.

The idea to allow cyclists to avoid forced detours is valid because, since you have to express personally the effort, you want to keep it as low as possible. Once you have a motor strolling you around, why complaining about a slightly longer route, like it's a personal hindrance? In terms of time travel it's often a matter of seconds...

Anyway, I don't foresee a great loss of capacity on the roads, and believe me, I come from a place where the number of scooters is much higher. They are so fast and flexible you almost don't notice them while driving a car, as long as they behave properly (which means: not swirling around lanes and jump in front of cars).
In the city, with a car, you will NEVER have to wait behind a slow moving moped...


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## julesstoop

It would perhaps be a solution to put a weight restriction (30 kg's or thereabouts) on blue plated mopeds and from a certain moment onwards only allow new sales of electricly driven units? It would perhaps give an interesting impulse to innovation as well.


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## Wilhem275

At the moment, the electric full scooters are probably the worst  fast as the others, but you don't hear them coming...

If you mean bikes with an assisting electric motor, it may be an idea. But such a limit, in real life, means a de fact ban of every self-propelled model, so you can just go straight and make it a clear and definitive separation.

In general, I would allow only the kind of e-bikes where the engine is not working alone but only when the cyclist is pushing the pedals.
I often use that kind of bike at home, it's already enough for "lazy cycling".


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## radamfi

So the car modal share is 50% by trips and 73% by distance. How does that compare to other developed countries?

Regarding housing, it seems such a shame that NL has copied the British obsession with houses and house prices. When I first got interested in the Netherlands, around the late 90s, I worked for a company that also had an office in Zoetermeer. I used to have lots of conversations with a British person (who unusually spoke fluent Dutch) who worked in our Zoetermeer office when he visited our office in England. I remember commenting that I thought that the Dutch were quite happy renting, like the Germans. He then remarked that the Dutch were starting to get into house buying. Obviously the rest is history and house prices in NL are now extortionate, whereas it is still cheap in Germany where renting still dominates.

Having said that, house prices do seem be still, in general, a fair bit cheaper than the UK despite higher wages. I'm planning to move to NL in the next few years (essentially to retire) and the north east seems to be still reasonably affordable. That part of the country seems basically as close to utopia (low crime, good standard of living, good cycling) as you can get, but the house prices there are comparable to the high crime areas of northern England, which most people would try to avoid.

I've started to do a 50 km commute in southern England with my Batavus electric bike! I do this once or twice a week and it takes about 2.5 hours each way. I do have a spare battery.


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## ChrisZwolle

Northeastern Netherlands is somewhat of a 'Soviet Netherlands'. It is the only area where communist parties consistently get a sizable number of votes. It has chronic unemployment and is considered quite undesirable for people who are looking for a decent job, which is a reason why the housing prices are so depressed in eastern Groningen. However, if you are financially independent, it is a nice, quiet and spacious rural area. Personally I would prefer Drenthe or Friesland, I don't like the mentality of rural Groningen (having spend a number of years there).


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## radamfi

According to:

http://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui/show.do?dataset=nama_r_e2gdp&lang=en

the GDP per capita of each NUTS 2 region in the Netherlands (2011) was as follows:

50400 Groningen
29100 Friesland (NL)
27500 Drenthe
31400 Overijssel
30100 Gelderland
26100 Flevoland
42300 Utrecht
40500 Noord-Holland
35400 Zuid-Holland
34300 Zeeland
36400 Noord-Brabant
32100 Limburg (NL)

so it looks like Groningen had the highest GDP per capita of the Dutch NUTS 2 regions. Does this make sense?


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## keokiracer

radamfi said:


> so it looks like Groningen had the highest GDP per capita of the Dutch NUTS 2 regions. Does this make sense?


Well it makes some sense since revenues from natural gas in Groningen are probably counted along, but all that money doesn't go to the people but to the government, so it gives a wrong picture.


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## radamfi

keokiracer said:


> Well it makes some sense since revenues from natural gas in Groningen are probably counted along, but all that money doesn't go to the people but to the government, so it gives a wrong picture.


Doesn't the gas industry bring good employment? Aberdeen is one of the richest parts of the UK (and has high house prices http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24348196) because of the oil industry.


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## ChrisZwolle

Yes, that figure is highly affected by the natural gas extraction. In reality it is the least wealthy area of the Netherlands, except for Groningen City. It's not that incomes are necessarily lower, but fewer people have high-paying jobs. It's mostly a 'blue-collar' region.


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## Suburbanist

Dutch economy is not growing strong, but the retraction is mostly over. Employment is recovering as well. 

The issue is that many people are "locked" into their homes, financially speaking, and not many new social housing has come online (construction dried up in 2009-10 so now there aren't many units coming to the market).


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## Koesj

radamfi said:


> That is over 50% growth. Do you believe these projections?


As others already said, in this particular case they might as well be considered accurate. Almere, the city at the eastern end of the A1/A6 project, is slated to grow to 350k inhabitants from 200k today, and even considering a protected economic malaise there is lots of pent-up demand for housing in the Amsterdam area.



> I work in transport modelling in the UK, and we are required to use the Government's predictions of traffic growth in our models, despite the forecasts being hopelessly wrong in the past, especially in London where traffic hasn't increased for about 20 years now. Many academics don't believe them
> 
> http://www.tps.org.uk/main/news/id/0424/x
> 
> The Department for Transport had to make a whole page of excuses why their London forecasts were so wrong in their latest forecast publication. They are still showing traffic growth up to 72% on main roads in England between 2010 and 2040, despite traffic plateauing since around 2005, even though the economy was doing well from 2005 to 2008, and again since 2012.
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...file/212474/road-transport-forecasts-2013.pdf
> 
> Are there similar documents in the Netherlands showing their traffic predictions? Is there a debate about whether they are valid or not?


"Even the car as symbol of achieving adulthood has lost its power – the surveys say nowadays it’s how good you are with the Apps on your smartphone and your tablet." 

Really? Are these faux-cultural explanations a big driver in traffic forecasting in the UK? And how does the London situation compare to the Netherlands, or the rest of the UK for that matter, since it's very much an outlier wrt scale?


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## radamfi

Koesj said:


> Really? These faux-cultural explanations a big driver in traffic forecasting in the UK? And how does the London situation compare to the Netherlands, or the rest of the UK for that matter, since it's very much an outlier wrt scale?


No, we still use predict-and-provide and are not allowed to factor in any cultural effects. But traffic growth in the UK seemed to stop in the UK around 2005 despite good economic growth in the following few years. There has only been a modest increase in traffic since economic growth resumed a couple of years ago, and per capita road traffic is still falling, as we have had quite a lot of immigration in the last few years.

London is definitely an outlier but I mentioned it because the UK Government has got its forecasts so wrong in London in the past, it casts doubt on whether we can believe in their forecasts now. They are still forecasting growth in London.


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## Koesj

radamfi said:


> No, we still use predict-and-provide and are not allowed to factor in any cultural effects. But traffic growth in the UK seemed to stop in the UK around 2005 despite good economic growth in the following few years. There has only been a modest increase in traffic since economic growth resumed a couple of years ago, and per capita road traffic is still falling, as we have had quite a lot of immigration in the last few years.


There's an unfortunate break in our national statistics office's dataset on transportation, so I haven't got the whole picture, but road usage in the whole of the Netherlands was at 113% in 2011 compared to 2005's 107% (index=2000, AADT based). Growth was much slower in the Western NL though.

Kilometers travelled by any mode were up by 3,04% in 2013 compared to 2010 - offset by a 1,39% population growth in that same period (you do the per capita math ) - is this comparable to what's going on in the UK?



> London is definitely an outlier but I mentioned it because the UK Government has got its forecasts so wrong in London in the past, it casts doubt on whether we can believe in their forecasts now. They are still forecasting growth in London.


Well it seems to me that these are your own governments' crosses to bear


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## ChrisZwolle

A recent study by the governmental 'Kennisinstituut voor Mobiliteit' (KiM) found out there is no evidence for driving being substituted by online activity. Although driving has declined among young adults, this is mainly explained by the lower labor participation rate (and higher education participation rate). Unemployment and specifically underemployment is a major problem for adults below age 27. There is a huge mismatch between studies and job opportunities (too many people have grades in fields not required by the job market).

People are very quickly to see short term changes (such as during a recession) as a long-term trend. Driving alone is increasing and driving overall is at an all-time high over the past 2-3 years.

After all, road capacity requirements are based on overall driving, not 'per-capita driving'. Even if per-capita driving may go down, regional population growth still results in more traffic, thus a need for more highway capacity. 

Another factor is the stalled 'upward mobility', both in the labor market, as well as on the housing market. But this won't last forever, this is why cities like Almere will continue to grow as it is designated as a place for major residential developments. Unlike some areas, where developments can go up everywhere one wants, where and how much is build is strictly directed from the government. Which, unfortunately also drives up housing prices, as municipalities acquire the land for development and then sell them at a large profit to developers. In the end it's the resident who pays for that municipal profit. Housing is one of the few major sources of income for municipalities, both property taxes and land development.


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## radamfi

ChrisZwolle said:


> A recent study by the governmental 'Kennisinstituut voor Mobiliteit' (KiM) found out there is no evidence for driving being substituted by online activity. Although driving has declined among young adults, this is mainly explained by the lower labor participation rate (and higher education participation rate). Unemployment and specifically underemployment is a major problem for adults below age 27. There is a huge mismatch between studies and job opportunities (too many people have grades in fields not required by the job market).


Are young people in the Netherlands just as likely to acquire driving licences nowadays than in the past? In some other countries, young people are becoming less likely to learn to drive.



ChrisZwolle said:


> People are very quickly to see short term changes (such as during a recession) as a long-term trend. Driving alone is increasing and driving overall is at an all-time high over the past 2-3 years.


It would be expected for driving to decrease in a recession, but the growth in driving seems to have slowed or stopped in many countries when there is no recession.

In the Netherlands, there has been a lot of road building in recent years, which might mean that some of the increase can be explained by induced traffic, when the previous conditions were congested. For example, you now have a 10 lane superhighway from Utrecht to Amsterdam, so that might encourage some people who used the train in the past to drive instead, or more people might now consider taking a job in Amsterdam because the driving option is now more realistic.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Unlike some areas, where developments can go up everywhere one wants, where and how much is build is strictly directed from the government. Which, unfortunately also drives up housing prices, as municipalities acquire the land for development and then sell them at a large profit to developers. In the end it's the resident who pays for that municipal profit. Housing is one of the few major sources of income for municipalities, both property taxes and land development.


Are you saying that you think that the famously regulated development controls in the Netherlands are too strict? The UK has had quite strict development laws for most of the last 50 years, but they were relaxed in the 80s during the Thatcher government, and at that time there was a huge amount of out-of-town and car based development, including huge shopping complexes and business parks near motorway junctions. That only lasted around 10 years and mostly stopped around 1992, but is still blamed for a lot of the traffic problems in the UK.


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## radamfi

Koesj said:


> Kilometers travelled by any mode were up by 3,04% in 2013 compared to 2010 - offset by a 1,39% population growth in that same period (you do the per capita math ) - is this comparable to what's going on in the UK?


That latest annual report shows motor vehicle traffic, especially cars and taxis, flatlining from 2010 to 2013, despite immigration and the resumption of economic growth around 2011/12.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...317454/annual-road-traffic-estimates-2013.pdf

There has, however, been a significant growth in rail passengers over quite a long period now, which continued through the recession and is still continuing.


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## ChrisZwolle

radamfi said:


> For example, you now have a 10 lane superhighway from Utrecht to Amsterdam, so that might encourage some people who used the train in the past to drive instead, or more people might now consider taking a job in Amsterdam because the driving option is now more realistic.


There is a very limited modal shift in the Netherlands. This is mainly because public transport is uncompetitive for most car trips. It has been researched that 90% of the car trips take at least 3 times as long with public transport. 

Highway capacity is also not a major factor in modal shift, parking availability is a much stronger argument to travel by train than travel times, again because the train is inherently not competitive with most car trips, congested or uncongested. Train travel has its own sizeable market that is largely detached from driving. There is some limited competition, but by far not to the extent often suggested in politics.



> Are you saying that you think that the famously regulated development controls in the Netherlands are too strict?


Housing prices (the median multiple) has increased significantly since the VINEX era. I'm not saying we need uncontrolled sprawl like Belgium or the United States, but housing affordability is a major issue, even after the price correction since 2008. Also, if we had a better (cheaper) supply of land (1995-2008) it still could have featured the Dutch planning style with good cycling and transit. 

Also, the term 'affordable housing' is often misused to sell tiny apartments or studios for the price of a regular apartment. Such as cutting space by 50% and reducing the price by 20% or so. That's not what people see as affordable housing.

The current problem on the housing market is not (yet) the supply of land, but the lack of mobility. This has to do with more strict mortgage requirements, still relatively high prices and stagnating economy. The market is 'locked', even if there is an underlying demand.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A15, Rotterdam*

A15 along the southern side of Rotterdam. See De Fotograaf for more photos.

1. Vaanplein interchange (A15/A29)









2. Bike bridge at the Portland rest area


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## radamfi

ChrisZwolle said:


> Housing prices (the median multiple) has increased significantly since the VINEX era. I'm not saying we need uncontrolled sprawl like Belgium or the United States, but housing affordability is a major issue, even after the price correction since 2008. Also, if we had a better (cheaper) supply of land (1995-2008) it still could have featured the Dutch planning style with good cycling and transit.


But why were house prices more affordable before the VINEX era? I thought it was mostly to do with the fact that house buying was not really that important in the Netherlands back then, and people were more or less happy to rent (like Germany), but in more recent years it has become more fashionable to buy your own house (like the UK). 

Do the population projections show a continuation of housing shortage? I would have thought that the era of high natural population growth was over, even in the Netherlands, and the population will go down unless there is significant immigration.

(Incidentally, why did the Netherlands have such a high birth rate compared to other western European countries, even after the invention of the contraception pill?)


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## Slagathor

That sound barrier next to the Portland rest stop seems completely pointless. There's an earthen wall underneath that bike path right behind it!


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## Koesj

radamfi said:


> (Incidentally, why did the Netherlands have such a high birth rate compared to other western European countries, even after the invention of the contraception pill?)


IIRC the delay has been attributed, among other things, the 'pillarisation' of 20th century Dutch society (when for example religious leaders held a comparatively large sway over parts of the populace), and the delayed 'final' round of industrialisation - which only really started after the war and postponed the latter stages of the demographic transition in the NL. 

However, my good ol' Dutch history handbook is pretty skint on the post-war years so I'll dig some more and see what I can come up with. This applies to your questions on housing policy too btw


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## Suburbanist

radamfi said:


> But why were house prices more affordable before the VINEX era? I thought it was mostly to do with the fact that house buying was not really that important in the Netherlands back then, and people were more or less happy to rent (like Germany), but in more recent years it has become more fashionable to buy your own house (like the UK).


That was not the case I think. I know the financial viewpoint: Dutch banks used to be rather conservative in lending. In the 1990s, as the looming implementation of Euro became a certainty, they started pushing more money into the mortgage market, easing credit. You had many people buying homes with interest-only, fixed-for-life mortgages, which turned out to be great deals as prices started to rise, it is like leaving far cheaper than even paying rental. 




> Do the population projections show a continuation of housing shortage? I would have thought that the era of high natural population growth was over, even in the Netherlands, and the population will go down unless there is significant immigration.


There is some immigration, but also there is a much more important phenomenon: size of households shrunk dramatically.


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## ChrisZwolle

My apartment rent is more expensive than my parents pay in mortgage for a single family house with four times the floor area, plus a sizable yard. It is in the same city. They bought it in 1997. 



Slagathor said:


> That sound barrier next to the Portland rest stop seems completely pointless. There's an earthen wall underneath that bike path right behind it!


That struck me as well. The nearest houses are a good 200 meters behind the earth wall. Further east to the Vaanplein interchange is just an earth wall and no mega barrier. I suspect it may have to do with the Betuwe Freight Railroad, which is right next to A15. There is a combined noise of 12 lanes of motorway, plus the railroad.

The Portland noise barrier is the tallest in the Netherlands. It is 13 meters tall.


----------



## radamfi

Suburbanist said:


> There is some immigration, but also there is a much more important phenomenon: size of households shrunk dramatically.


So converting big houses into flats would help solve this problem.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> My apartment rent is more expensive than my parents pay in mortgage for a single family house with four times the floor area, plus a sizable yard. It is in the same city. They bought it in 1997.
> ....


My rent's higher than some friends' mortgages (although cheaper than it would cost to buy in this neighborhood). But if I wanted to buy, I'd need a down payment....


----------



## radamfi

ChrisZwolle said:


> My apartment rent is more expensive than my parents pay in mortgage for a single family house with four times the floor area, plus a sizable yard. It is in the same city. They bought it in 1997.


It should in theory be cheaper to buy a house in the long run, otherwise there would be no point buying a house to rent out. But I suspect the difference is quite large at the moment because of the silly low interest rates. I paid off my mortgage many years ago, but my interest rate went up to over 8% for a while, and my parents were paying up to 15% when they bought their house.


----------



## Koesj

radamfi said:


> So converting big houses into flats would help solve this problem.


Average dwelling size isn't that large to begin with, and peoples' expectations have changed as well. Anecdotally, my 60sq m. house was planned 120 years ago to house a whole family, but nowadays couples move out of this street as soon as they get a baby. It's not easily dividable either.

To me it feels like you're trying to 'attack' the Dutch conundrum from a couple of preconceived positions. However, context trumps narrative in this case IMO. Social, economic, demographic, even cultural factors have put us on a road with a high degree of path dependence. And if you'll allow me the strained metaphor, that road needed (and still needs) a lot more capacity to 'get there'.


----------



## Suburbanist

A student I supervise was stopped by police. He is from Australia, loves cycling and just went cycling on his bad-ass sport bike on A58 shoulder :crazy:

He got fined and was complaining just before class started that how unfair it is, that he likes to cycle on roads but can't do that here in Netherlands.

It is not the first time, he got another fine for cycling outside a designated path in Tilburg once as he told me. He considers cycle paths too slow for him.


----------



## Slagathor

What an ass.


----------



## Wilhem275

da_scotty said:


> It is actually prepared for electrification. I believe that I read that when the line will be up for tender (it's not part of the Hoofdrailnet) it will be mandatory to have asneltrein Zwolle-Enschedebesides the local train.


I was actually thinking about Amsterdam - Enschede/Berlin 200 km/h trains via Hanzelijn and Zwolle, just a bit hardcore compared to the current situation of Nijverdal :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A study by the 'Kennisinstituut Mobiliteit' (Netherlands Institute for Transport Policy Analysis) shows that the massive motorway expansion projects in the Netherlands resulted in limited 'induced demand'.


Use of the main road network increased by 16% from 2000 to 2012. Of this increase, it is estimated that approximately one-eighth (2%) was a consequence of the extra car use that was evoked by the completed road expansions during that same period. 

At locations where road capacity was expanded due to previous congestion problems, there were during peak hours often sharp increases in traffic volumes. This primarily concerns existing traffic that, due to congestion, had previously opted to travel via other routes or avoided peak hour travel. Moreover, the road expansion also evoked totally new car use, because, for example, car passenger became car driver or because car drivers travel to destinations situated further away. This effect is however relatively limited.​
http://kimnet.nl/en/publication/latent-demand-road-traffic


----------



## M-NL

aswnl said:


> It's just a single track non electrified line carrying some local dieseltrains between Zwolle and Almelo.


It's not 'just a single track non electrified line', it's actually part of the hoofdrailnet (HRN: main rail network).

Just for the idea:
Passenger count per day in 2007:
Leeuwarden - Groningen: 13.293 
Zwolle - Wierden (- Enschede): 18.154
Nijmegen - Roermond: 18.076

There are actual plans to electrify this line. The study also includes numbers on rerouting Amsterdam-Enschede/Berlin Intercities over this line. (estimates: [email protected] speeds, up to [email protected]/h on the Hanzelijn)


----------



## Wilhem275

Glad to hear my idea was not completely idiotic


----------



## verreme

ChrisZwolle said:


> A study by the 'Kennisinstituut Mobiliteit' (Netherlands Institute for Transport Policy Analysis) shows that the massive motorway expansion projects in the Netherlands resulted in limited 'induced demand'.
> 
> 
> Use of the main road network increased by 16% from 2000 to 2012. Of this increase, it is estimated that approximately one-eighth (2%) was a consequence of the extra car use that was evoked by the completed road expansions during that same period.
> 
> At locations where road capacity was expanded due to previous congestion problems, there were during peak hours often sharp increases in traffic volumes. This primarily concerns existing traffic that, due to congestion, had previously opted to travel via other routes or avoided peak hour travel. Moreover, the road expansion also evoked totally new car use, because, for example, car passenger became car driver or because car drivers travel to destinations situated further away. This effect is however relatively limited.​
> http://kimnet.nl/en/publication/latent-demand-road-traffic


Take the "limited" out of your sentence and you could make a nice headline for a news article.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N257*

Provincial road N257 at the Krammer Locks.


----------



## Slagathor

^^ The Krammer Locks are (or at least were when they were built in the late '70s) unique: they're massively complicated because they cannot allow the fresh water on the one side to mix with the salt water on the other (or vice versa). It's an engineering feat of the highest order and their construction resulted in the natural emergence of salt marshes and new wildlife on the Western side.


----------



## Suburbanist

N257 will become more attractive once A4 is opened and traffic from East doesn't have to cross clogged Steenbergen streets. 

I also wonder whether any progress can be expected on a southern extension of nearby N656 to N659 providing an expressway route beteween these two points


----------



## Slagathor

Uhm, to what means and purpose?

I'm also not sure I got the meaning of your first part.


----------



## verfmeer

About that first part: traffic form the Goerree-Overflakkee Island and the Bruinisse/Nieuwerkerk region will use the N257 and A4 to get to Bergen op Zoom and Antwerpen.
At this moment traffic will have to pass through Steenbergen to get to the N259. Because the A4 is build west of Steenbergen, that won't be neccesary in the future. Therefore traffic will move from the N59 and the N256 towards the N257.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The left lane of A28 in Zwolle is a dynamic lane (plusstrook) that opens during rush hour to provide a third lane. However, the electronics malfunctioned. The result: 18 kilometers of traffic jam, while it is usually free-flow through Zwolle due to the dynamic lane. An additional lane can make a huge difference.


----------



## aswnl

M-NL said:


> It's not 'just a single track non electrified line', it's actually part of the hoofdrailnet (HRN: main rail network).
> 
> Just for the idea:
> Passenger count per day in 2007:
> Leeuwarden - Groningen: 13.293
> Zwolle - Wierden (- Enschede): 18.154
> Nijmegen - Roermond: 18.076
> 
> There are actual plans to electrify this line. The study also includes numbers on rerouting Amsterdam-Enschede/Berlin Intercities over this line. (estimates: [email protected] speeds, up to [email protected]/h on the Hanzelijn)


It's just a far away diesel line. And the passenger counts are really not enough to invest in electrification. It's not much more than let's say the N286 near Tholen or some other 3 digit N-road. Just as you wouldn't upgrade that road to a motorway with that amount of vehicles, it would be totally insane to upgrade a secundairy railroad carrying the same amount of people.


----------



## M-NL

One of the major reasons electrification does make sense is the fact that trains are not allowed to run on low-tax diesel ('rode diesel') any more. Also electric trains allow for shorter journey times and allow the line to be used for purposes it isn't used for. A more direct Zwolle-Enschede train is greatly missed for instance.

The problem is that the actual passenger numbers on the Zwolle-Almelo axis are a bit skewed. Car traffic is skewed because Nijverdal is still a soon to be solved major obstacle and people choose to use A1-A50 or a route over the N36 instead. Same goes for travel by train. In some cases a trip via Deventer or Marienberg is just as quick.


----------



## Ni3lS

ChrisZwolle said:


> The left lane of A28 in Zwolle is a dynamic lane (plusstrook) that opens during rush hour to provide a third lane. However, the electronics malfunctioned. The result: 18 kilometers of traffic jam, while it is usually free-flow through Zwolle due to the dynamic lane. An additional lane can make a huge difference.


I was gonna ask today. Saw a huge traffic jam from the railway bridge yesterday, all the way to Hattem on that provincial road.


----------



## Suburbanist

An unusually complex, now dismantled, road junction in 's-Hertogenbosch









Source


----------



## da_scotty

I hated that place, as Den Bosch is one of the cities with a DMV. It used to be a test-buster.

It's also one of the few place where you seem to drive on the left.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N33 Assen - Noordbroek*

Loads of aerial photos of completed N33 after widening to 2x2 lanes.

http://inthesky.nl/n33/20141104


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Steenbergen*

The soon-to-be-opened A4 around Steenbergen.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N61 Terneuzen - Schoondijke*

The reconstructed N61 in Zeeuws-Vlaanderen (far southwest Netherlands).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Breda International Airport (formerly known as Seppe Airfield) is shortened to Breda Airport on the new signs.

I didn't even know this 'airport' existed.  It's a small general aviation airfield with a paved runway, unsuitable for jet airplanes.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^No more regularly-scheduled service to Turnhout and Hoogstraten? :jk:


----------



## Road_UK

It doesn't say "international" airport though. It just says airport...


----------



## Penn's Woods

Exactly. It used to say "international," Chris says.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breda_International_Airport


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^"Deze naamswijziging is onderdeel van de verzakelijking van het vliegveld"

Verzakelijking? Would that be a "reorientation towards business"?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes sir.


----------



## Road_UK

Penn's Woods said:


> Exactly. It used to say "international," Chris says.


You're right, I'm sorry.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Don't let it happen again.

:cheers:


----------



## Slagathor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Breda International Airport (formerly known as Seppe Airfield) is shortened to Breda Airport on the new signs.
> 
> I didn't even know this 'airport' existed.  It's a small general aviation airfield with a paved runway, unsuitable for jet airplanes.
> 
> [/QUOTE]
> 
> Did the airport icon change? I thought the airplane was always on its side, [URL="https://www.google.com/maps/@51.9596409,4.4086438,3a,27y,162.29h,94.88t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s-1ohXd50egh42qCTetBrBw!2e0"]like here[/URL] and [URL="https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5143057,3.7219301,3a,15y,325h,97.43t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sPLYJU9cVmkwu9_KOx7KXHQ!2e0"]like here[/URL].


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Generally, the airport icon points in the direction to follow. In your examples, you have to turn right to go to the airport, so the airplane is pointing to the right. If you have to continue ahead, the airplane points up.

At least, that's the general idea, but I don't know how widely this guideline is followed in the Netherlands.


----------



## Kanadzie

Penn's Woods said:


> Exactly. It used to say "international," Chris says.


I am always amused by "international" airports without any international connections... even a big one like Norfolk VA I just wanted to go to Canada, the closest foreign country, nope you gotta fly to Philly first (terminal 5! :nuts


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^This country's chock full of them, but I always take it at face value and assume it means there are customs-and-immigration facilities. I once had to pick up someone at Hartford-Bradley (in Connecticut) coming from Washington, and passed an Air Ontario counter, so "Bradley International" is, or was, actually justified.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ It's way OT but I was hoping you'd pick on "Terminal 5", I just remember landing at Terminal A late with a connection that was to take off literally in 10 minutes after I got out of the jetway... I'm just running down the corridors hearing only the zinnng of the little wheels on my bag, TB, TC, TD, TE I get to Terminal F, it's just a door to the runway... you have to wait for a bus... that drives way on the other side of the runway between planes taking off and landing... I'm sure they heard my "kurrrrrwwwa" all the way in Conshohocken :lol:

still made the flight though, last person on board 

(edit for letters...)


----------



## Slagathor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Generally, the airport icon points in the direction to follow. In your examples, you have to turn right to go to the airport, so the airplane is pointing to the right. If you have to continue ahead, the airplane points up.
> 
> At least, that's the general idea, but I don't know how widely this guideline is followed in the Netherlands.


That's probably not a bad idea given the human subconscious.


----------



## sotonsi

There's a rule that you cannot have the airplane pointing down-right, down, or down-left in the UK (for obvious reasons) even if the arrow on the sign is that direction (which would be very rare).


----------



## Penn's Woods

It would never occur to me that the direction the plane is pointing would indicate which direction you're supposed to turn. For "Airport, turn right," I'd just expect an airport symbol and an actual arrow pointing right.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The airplane direction does not replace the arrow. It just compliments it.


----------



## Penn's Woods

I don't see any arrow on that sign you posted, though.

Do we interpret that as "Breda Airport, take A58 to exit 21"?


----------



## Road_UK

Yes. It tells you the route to follow.


----------



## verfmeer

Behind this sign there is a sign directing you to the A58, which is only 1300 meters from here (http://goo.gl/maps/51pHn)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Steenbergen*

A4 around Steenbergen (Dinteloord - Klutsdorp) opened to traffic as planned at 6:00 a.m. this morning. It is 13 kilometers of new 2x2 motorway with a 120 km/h speed limit. (the media reports 19 km but that includes parts of A4 which opened several years ago). The cost was € 275 million. 

The 'aquaduct Steenbergen aan zee' (sic).


----------



## Slagathor

Optimistic name. Or pessimistic? 



Surel said:


> And how do you think they would react when you would answer "no comment"?


A) I wouldn't say it like that.
B) I can't read other people's minds.


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> A4 around Steenbergen (Dinteloord - Klutsdorp) opened to traffic as planned at 6:00 a.m. this morning. It is 13 kilometers of new 2x2 motorway with a 120 km/h speed limit. (the media reports 19 km but that includes parts of A4 which opened several years ago). The cost was € 275 million.
> 
> The 'aquaduct Steenbergen aan zee' (sic).


Finally this section is now open. Only two sections of the A4 to go. Late next year the desperately necessary A4-MD between Delft and Schiedam (connecting with the Rotterdam Ring of Highways) will open. :banana:

The only missing part of the A4 (Rotterdam-Hooglviet to Klaaswaal) is still not officially planned yet.


----------



## Slagathor

^^ You could always get a 4x4 and just drive through the fields there. Out of sheer frustration.


----------



## Surel

Slagathor said:


> Optimistic name. Or pessimistic?
> 
> 
> 
> A) I wouldn't say it like that.
> B) I can't read other people's minds.


How would you say it?


----------



## Oostoever

Slagathor said:


> ^^ You could always get a 4x4 and just drive through the fields there. Out of sheer frustration.


Well, be sure then that car is waterproof or is able to float since you have to cross two rivers between Rotterdam-Hoogvliet and Klaaswaal.


----------



## Slagathor

Surel said:


> How would you say it?


Please do feel free to give your usual passive-aggressive bs a short vacation this week.


----------



## snowdog

EPA001 said:


> The only missing part of the A4 (Rotterdam-Hooglviet to Klaaswaal) is still not officially planned yet.


Yep, very unfortunate, Spijkenisse is a **** to get to, and Oud-Beijerland could use some improvement reachability wise too. 

This would loosen the traffic on the eastern parts of Rotterdam by a lot, as there'd be one through route from The Hague to Antwerpen, rather than the current A13>A20>A16 mess which clogs up the entire area.

Just one fart on any of those 3, and pretty much whole R'dam is a gridlock. hno:



> And how do you think they would react when you would answer "no comment"?


It depends on what type of cop I'm dealing with, I usually just answer all the questions, as it usually gets me out of a ticket ( I'm often stopped for speeding). I'm mr. innocent ''cute'' small little guy and very apologetic. Being polite works on most cops. 

However, the moment cops start ''looking'' for stuff to fine, or being a general ass/jerk, I often respond annoyed to their questions and tell them that it is none of their business and I am free to be on a public road as I please. The moment they push it ( I've had some threaten me ''stop doing that or I'll find thousands in fines for fine you''), I start filming them, or tell them it's on camera ( dashcam).


----------



## Suburbanist

I though keokiracer was going to cycle the whole sector before it opened and post a video. He wrote he'd do that before opening.



snowdog said:


> Yep, very unfortunate, Spijkenisse is a **** to get to, and Oud-Beijerland could use some improvement reachability wise too.
> 
> This would loosen the traffic on the eastern parts of Rotterdam by a lot, as there'd be one through route from The Hague to Antwerpen, rather than the current A13>A20>A16 mess which clogs up the entire area.
> 
> Just one fart on any of those 3, and pretty much whole R'dam is a gridlock. hno:


Something I don't understand is this: why don't they build a drawbridge/tunnel between Nieuw-Beijerland and Spikenisse?



Oostoever said:


> Well, be sure then that car is waterproof or is able to float since you have to cross two rivers between Rotterdam-Hoogvliet and Klaaswaal.


Problem solved


----------



## De Klauw

Is that 'aquaduct Steenbergen aan zee' extendable to 3 lanes?


----------



## keokiracer

I can't remember ever saying that Subi. 


De Klauw said:


> Is that 'aquaduct Steenbergen aan zee' extendable to 3 lanes?


Yes.


----------



## Surel

Slagathor said:


> Please do feel free to give your usual passive-aggressive bs a short vacation this week.


What do you mean?

I would rather like to know how would you tell the police that it is your business what you are doing there where they stopped you. I seriously doubt that it can be easily done. But if there is some special phrase I could use in such a situation when stopped by the Dutch police I would like to know it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Eindhoven region*

The chances for the construction of a new 80 km/h expressway around Eindhoven / Helmond, the so-called 'square around Eindhoven', seems to be getting slimmer. The region wants to widen A2 (Weert - Eindhoven) and A67 (Eindhoven - Venlo) instead. 

The original plan was to build a 80 km/h slowspeed expressway (controlled-access though) from A50 at Ekkersrijt (north of Eindhoven) to N279 near Beek en Donk, and then twin the existing N279 to a four-lane expressway, also with an 80 km/h speed limit. It would be partially funded through the national government. 

Right now it seems that 74 MPs are in favor of widening the A67 and 69 in favor of building the 'square'. The remaining 7 MPs are split off their previous parties and will make or break the 'square'. Transportation minister Schultz already indicated she will go with whatever parliament decides.


----------



## snowdog

Surel said:


> What do you mean?
> 
> I would rather like to know how would you tell the police that it is your business what you are doing there where they stopped you. I seriously doubt that it can be easily done. But if there is some special phrase I could use in such a situation when stopped by the Dutch police I would like to know it.


Most cops are decent chaps, the stuff I've gotten away with by simply apologising is mind boggling, I've not been handed a single fine for speeding by a cop despite being caught by cops once in a while. ( only a speed camera once, grrr, cash machine caught me doing a whopping 56 km/h @ 50 km/h :nuts so I simply reply to all their questions like they want.

But if he starts writing a fine ( usually the older farts), or start looking for stuff to fine, then when they ask me stuff:
''Hoezo wilt u dat weten'', ''ik voel mij niet verplicht om hier antwoord op te geven'' and in case of fines: ''ik ga niet meewerken aan mijn eigen veroordeling'', ''geen verklaring''. As anything I say works against me in front the the judge when I appeal the case ( I always combat every single fine, and sometimes win ).


ChrisZwolle said:


> The chances for the construction of a new 80 km/h expressway around Eindhoven / Helmond, the so-called 'square around Eindhoven', seems to be getting slimmer. The region wants to widen A2 (Weert - Eindhoven) and A67 (Eindhoven - Venlo) instead.
> 
> The original plan was to build a 80 km/h slowspeed expressway (controlled-access though) from A50 at Ekkersrijt (north of Eindhoven) to N279 near Beek en Donk, and then twin the existing N279 to a four-lane expressway, also with an 80 km/h speed limit. It would be partially funded through the national government.
> 
> Right now it seems that 74 MPs are in favor of widening the A67 and 69 in favor of building the 'square'. The remaining 7 MPs are split off their previous parties and will make or break the 'square'. Transportation minister Schultz already indicated she will go with whatever parliament decides.


I still hope the Ruit Eindhoven wins, but unfortunately I don't see it happening .


----------



## EPA001

The "Ruit" would gave more redundancies in handling the traffic. Overall that would be the better solution. But with the doubting politicians another widening of the A2 and A67 might have the better chances now. But I would not be in favor for that.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

EPA001 said:


> The "Ruit" would gave more redundancies in handling the traffic. Overall that would be the better solution.


It would make the network more robust, but they absolutely don't want through traffic on the northeastern quadrant of the 'square', so I don't think this project should receive national funding if they don't want it to serve national interests at all cost. 

The whole project has been downgraded, first the Veghel - Helmond leg was scrapped (planned as 2x2, 100 km/h) then they decided to build 's-Hertogenbosch - Veghel (separate project) with 80 km/h only and now they also want to build the actual 'square' with only 80 km/h as well. 

That's almost € 900 million to build a motorway-like road with the speed limit of any other provincial road. hno:


----------



## Suburbanist

Postpone this project, and invest the €€ on making N65 into A65 between Vught and Tilburg!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They misspelled 'Dinteloord' on one of the signs at Steenbergen exit of A4.


----------



## Slagathor

That sign is pretty high up there... Maybe we should just change the town's name?


----------



## Suburbanist

How much does a sign like this cost, roughly (just the sign and the associated pole)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N31/N32 Werpsterhoek Interchange*



Godius said:


> N31 - haak om Leeuwarden - vanuit de lucht:


:cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Western Noord-Brabant province has quite a dense motorway network now


----------



## Road_UK

Is it going to stay A58 south of Bergen.O.Z or will they rename it A4 eventually?


----------



## MrAronymous

If they would just build the last part we could rename the whole thing and be done with this whole mess


----------



## Suburbanist

I wonder if A59 between k. Sabina and k. Noordhoek will lose a lot of traffic with this new opening.


----------



## keokiracer

Road_UK said:


> Is it going to stay A58 south of Bergen.O.Z or will they rename it A4 eventually?


That part is already A4. It's both numbered A4 and A58 between the Zoomland interchange and the Markiezaat interchange (here)


----------



## sotonsi

ChrisZwolle said:


> Western Noord-Brabant province has quite a dense motorway network now


Still missing that finished A59 round the south of Zevenbergen, but I think that's in the not-worth-bothering-with-even-if-you-want-motorways-all-over-the-place category!


----------



## sotonsi

Are they going to push the A4 number north of the N59 junction (isn't that were it currently ends, becoming A29?)?


----------



## De Klauw

^^The A4 is already double-numbered with the A29 since a few years. 


It's a bit of a number mess there. Is it correct that the A4 north of the Sabina interchange has three road numbers (A4, A29, A59)?


----------



## sotonsi

De Klauw said:


> ^^The A4 is already double-numbered with the A29 since a few years.


Nope - the A29 south of KP Sabina was renumbered A4 October last year. No double-numbering, just renumbering (as can be seen on the July 2014 Streetview imagery)

I thought there was a weird junction where the A4, A29 and A59 ended, but that was me misremembering that I thought that when I didn't realise the A29 and A59 were double-numbered until KP Hellegatsplein.


> It's a bit of a number mess there. Is it correct that the A4 north of the Sabina interchange has three road numbers (A4, A29, A59)?


No - it's A29-A59, unless they've renumbered since the summer (in which case, why not truncate the A29 further?)


----------



## keokiracer

sotonsi said:


> No - it's A29-A59, unless they've renumbered since the summer (in which case, why not truncate the A29 further?)


No, it's currently still A29/A59 between the Hellegatsplein and Sabina interchanges. North of that it's A29, west and east it's A59 and south it's A4 (used to be A29)


----------



## aswnl

Suburbanist said:


> How much does a sign like this cost, roughly (just the sign and the associated pole)


Should not be more than roughly k€ 6-8 (ex VAT)


----------



## Kanadzie

Surel said:


> What do you mean?
> 
> I would rather like to know how would you tell the police that it is your business what you are doing there where they stopped you. I seriously doubt that it can be easily done. But if there is some special phrase I could use in such a situation when stopped by the Dutch police I would like to know it.


I've done it before to non-Dutch police even when they were relatively polite... "that's none of your business" for example. If you get one who has "attitude", for sure, it won't help it, but you know, if you told him anything else, he'd still have the attitude. In such case (aggressive officer), it is important to refuse such questions as you must prove your ***** bigger than his


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Rotterdam - Antwerpen; A4 vs A16. 

A16 is 6 km shorter and 4 minutes faster.










Both routes have cons and pros;

* A29 has two movable bridges (Haringvliet Bridge & Volkerak Locks)
* A16 has more 100 km/h, but also more 130 km/h sections
* A16 is six lanes almost to the Belgian border
* E19 is prone to heavy truck traffic
* E19 has more congestion close to Antwerp than Belgian A12.

I think A4 gives a more reliable trip during rush hour, but A16-E19 is more 'straight' (the A4 route has 3 TOTSOs). A16 near Dordrecht and E19 in Belgium is more prone to congestion than A29-A4. 

However if you drive during the weekend and want a relaxed trip with higher speed limits, A16-E19 is probably better.


----------



## verfmeer

And this is only true if you need to go to the east of Rotterdam or to Gouda.
If you want to go to the port of Rotterdam or Schiedam, you better follow the A4.
It would be nice to see the effects of all the new roads when the A4 Midden Delfland is finished. That would make the A4 more attractive, because you have less TOTSO's between Den Haag en Antwerpen.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A4 has a number of potential bottlenecks;

* The Zoomland interchange (only 1 through lane for A4)
* The Volkerak Locks (movable bridge)
* The Haringvliet Bridge (movable bridge)
* The Heinenoord Tunnel (lack of spare capacity)


----------



## De Klauw

keokiracer said:


> No, it's currently still A29/A59 between the Hellegatsplein and Sabina interchanges. North of that it's A29, west and east it's A59 and south it's A4 (used to be A29)


I though the A4 was extended to Klaaswaal? So the stretch between Hellegatsplein and Sabina must have three numbers then.



ChrisZwolle said:


> * The Heinenoord Tunnel (lack of spare capacity)


The Heinenoordtunnel has 3 lanes in each direction and 85.000 vehicles each day. The Kennedytunnel in Antwerp also has 3 lanes in each directions but handles 130.000 vehicles each day. 

So you'd think the Heinenoordtunnel has some spare capacity left.


----------



## keokiracer

De Klauw said:


> I though the A4 was extended to Klaaswaal? So the stretch between Hellegatsplein and Sabina must have three numbers then.


Nope. Administratively it has always been 'Rijksweg 4' but it's numbered A29. And that always has been the case anf that has not changed


----------



## De Klauw

^^So you mean it's officially the A4 but not indicated on the roadsigns (yet)?


----------



## keokiracer

De Klauw said:


> ^^So you mean it's officially the A4 but not indicated on the roadsigns (yet)?


It is Rijksweg 4, which is purely administrative. It is signposted as A29 and will be. This will not change in the near future (and I'm afraid it's not gonna be changed in the not-so-near future either)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Diesel engines are cleaner than ever, the emissions of NOx and PM10 is much lower than diesel engines of 2000 or before. I don't see why they would want to get rid of them at this point. It's better to phase out older diesel engines, for example to tax diesel cars based on their euro emission class rather than weight. A 20 year old diesel smoker cost the same in road tax as a recent euro 6 diesel car. But you know, the environment is a great excuse to levy more taxes.


----------



## Penn's Woods

I saw a headline somewhere a few days ago - didn't have time to read the article and I can't remember where now - saying that emissions-wise, electric cars are no better than, well, gasoline-powered ones I guess. I don't know if they were just considering the total carbon footprint including the manufacture of the vehicle or what....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ I think that's the total 'dust-to-dust' cycle. However, electric cars don't have exhaust emissions while driving, so it can improve the local air quality. 

But electric cars are a niche market in most of Europe (the most notable exception being Norway). Nearly all electric vehicles in the Netherlands are owned by government agencies and a few businesses.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Rijnlandroute*

The minister of Infrastructure & Environment, Melanie Schultz, has signed the final EIS (tracébesluit) for the A4 and A44 reconstruction that is part of the larger 'Rijnlandroute' project. It involves two new motorway interchanges, a widening of A44 and an extension of the local lanes of A4 to the Rijnlandroute interchange.

The EIS will be unveiled to the public in January 2015.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Bunnik / Houten*

The A12 motorway at Bunnik. The overpass under construction is part of the new interchange that will serve Houten. The underpass in the foreground is part of the Bunnik bypass (N411). They cross each other, but do not provide access. Quite a complex project for a small town like Bunnik, with the A12 motorway, a busy railroad, new ramps and a new bypass.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Duinpolderweg*

The 'Duinpolderweg' (Dune-Polder Road) is a proposed connection in Noord-Holland province. It will link A4 with N206 and provide a better east-west connection in the densely populated Haarlemmermeer and Bollenstreek regions.

A new alternative has been added this week, displayed in purple. It will branch off further south and follows the Haarlem - Den Haag railroad past Hillegom.


----------



## Suburbanist

N206 has good standards on Zuid-Holland, then it becomes a farm track on Noord-Holland


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N31 Leeuwarden*

The bypass of Leeuwarden opened to traffic today around 4 p.m. It's an 8 kilometer four-lane controlled-access highway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N31 Leeuwarden*

Some photos of the N31 around Leeuwarden which I took today.


N31 Leeuwarden-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


N31 Leeuwarden-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


N31 Leeuwarden-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


N31 Leeuwarden-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


N31 Leeuwarden-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


N31 Leeuwarden-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


N31 Leeuwarden-7 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


N31 Leeuwarden-8 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


N31 Leeuwarden-9 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


N31 Leeuwarden-10 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


N31 Leeuwarden-11 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


N31 Leeuwarden-12 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


N31 Leeuwarden-13 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


N31 Leeuwarden-14 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


N31 Leeuwarden-15 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


N31 Leeuwarden-16 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


N31 Leeuwarden-17 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


N31 Leeuwarden-18 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


N31 Leeuwarden-19 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Penn's Woods

Quick language question - can one read "1200 m" as "twaalfhonderd meter" or is it "duizend tweehonderd"?

Sorry for the OT.


----------



## Neverworld

Penn's Woods said:


> Quick language question - can one read "1200 m" as "twaalfhonderd meter" or is it "duizend tweehonderd"?
> 
> Sorry for the OT.


Both are correct, but the former is the more natural and far more common expression.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Dutch exits are signed at 1200 m, 600 m an 0 m, which - as far as I know - other countries don't do in Europe. They (Dutch traffic engineers) studied the issue in the 1970s and found out 1200 m is the best distance to begin signing an exit. 

Of course, spatial constraints could mean exits are signed at different intervals (such as Marsum 800 m), but those are exceptions. 

Also notable is that Frisian placenames are now used on motorway signage as well (Marsum vs. Marssum, Wergea vs Warga), but only for small towns. You won't see 'Ljouwert', 'Snits' or 'It Hearrenfean' on the signs (except for bilingual city limit signs).


----------



## zwanneman2

So the signs indicate Leeuwarden-Oost, Leeuwarden-Centrum, Leeuwarden-Zuid, Leeuwarden-Noord and Leeuwarden. So we're does Leeuwarden lead to? And if it's Leeuwarden-West why not just indicate that? This is a general thing I have with multiple exits for one city. Which exit gets the name of the city without suffix? Or why would you use a direction without suffix anyway?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There is no exit called 'Leeuwarden-Centrum'. It is only signposted on the Wâldwei when coming from Drachten as a secondary destination.

Traffic from A31 and A32 will use exit 24 'Leeuwarden' which will become the major entrance to Leeuwarden once the 'Westelijke Invalsweg' is extended further into the city. 

Leeuwarden-Zuid (Overijsselselaan) used to be the major entrance to Leeuwarden from the south, but is now considered to be the least important access road into Leeuwarden, it also has the lowest speed limit (50 km/h).


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> Dutch exits are signed at 1200 m, 600 m an 0 m, which - as far as I know - other countries don't do in Europe. They (Dutch traffic engineers) studied the issue in the 1970s and found out 1200 m is the best distance to begin signing an exit.
> 
> Of course, spatial constraints could mean exits are signed at different intervals (such as Marsum 800 m), but those are exceptions.
> 
> Also notable is that Frisian placenames are now used on motorway signage as well (Marsum vs. Marssum, Wergea vs Warga), but only for small towns. You won't see 'Ljouwert', 'Snits' or 'It Hearrenfean' on the signs (except for bilingual city limit signs).


1 mile - 1700 m or so - seems to be standard here as the starting point for signing an exit. Sometimes 2 miles in environments like toll roads without lots of exits.


----------



## devo

One mile is 1609 meters, even closer to 1200. But it makes sense that you would use 1 mile and not 7/8th of a mile or so.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Most countries in Europe use something between 1000 and 2000 m. 

1200 m seems odd, why not 1000 m like Germany? Although 1000 m is a bit short if you drive 180 km/h 

Dutch advance signs don't make a difference between exits and interchanges (like for example in Germany or France). But sometimes they sign multiple exits in advance, most notable on A50 near Arnhem:

IMG 059 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Penn's Woods

devo said:


> One mile is 1609 meters, even closer to 1200. But it makes sense that you would use 1 mile and not 7/8th of a mile or so.


Sure. Don't know what I was thinking. (Well, "a mile is 1,760 yards* so it must be a slightly smaller number of meters" is what I was thinking...)

Now that you mention it, France or Belgium uses a lot of 1600-meter signs, I think... I remember wondering if they'd just picked up an American standard somehow and metricized it.

*That sound you hear in the distance is Spinoza's head exploding.


----------



## Road_UK

My favourite is the voice of John Cleese on the Tomtom navigation when you got it set on the metric system: in 800 metres - alright half a mile but we got to say 800 metres these days because of that little bastard Napoleon - take the exit.


----------



## Des

Penn's Woods said:


> I saw a headline somewhere a few days ago - didn't have time to read the article and I can't remember where now - saying that emissions-wise, electric cars are no better than, well, gasoline-powered ones I guess. I don't know if they were just considering the total carbon footprint including the manufacture of the vehicle or what....


It all depends on where the power that the electric cars use to charge comes from. If you take Beijing as an example you can replace all cars with electric cars but as long as the power comes from coal power plants located in the direct vicinity or even in the city, the air quality doesn't improve much and it is actually better for total CO2 emission per kilometer driven to drive light, fuel efficient diesel or petrol cars. 

And than we leave the battery production and recycling dilemma even out of the equation. 

Also with the popular hybrids take into account that the cars easily weigh 200 kilograms more than pure electric or diesel / petrol cars. This extra weight of plugin hybrids also requires extra electricity when running electric and more electricity means more CO2 in production as well - until we get C02 neutral or low CO2 power supply. 

I recently drove a hydrogen concept car, but also hydrogen requires a lot of power to produce. So even when hydrogen in the car only lets clean, clear water leave the exhaust it is not perfect.

Audi has a natural gas concept which includes a very clean e-gas based supply chain that reduces C02 emissions across the entire process from energy production to driving emissions. http://www.audi.de/content/de/brand/de/neuwagen/a3/a3-sportback-g-tron.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Quite frankly I'm more concerned about air quality in urban streets and along motorways than global climate which we can allegedly alter if CO2 emissions drop. CO2 is not harmful to health, but exhaust is. So I think electric or hydrogen cars are a huge step forward in cleaner mobility even if the total CO2 balance is not better.


----------



## aswnl

16(00) can be devided by 2 and 4 and results in a full 100.
12(00) can be devided by 2,3,4 and 6. 
10(00) can be devided by 2 and 5.

The "twaalftallig stelsel" (system of the number 12) gives most opportunities to place signs at a multiple of exact 100m, with the same length inbetween the signs. There's no need to go with 25 or 50 meter in between. That's why in NL at the end of the sixties it was decided to use 1200m for the startsign of an exit.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Des said:


> It all depends on where the power that the electric cars use to charge comes from. If you take Beijing as an example you can replace all cars with electric cars but as long as the power comes from coal power plants located in the direct vicinity or even in the city, the air quality doesn't improve much and it is actually better for total CO2 emission per kilometer driven to drive light, fuel efficient diesel or petrol cars.
> 
> And than we leave the battery production and recycling dilemma even out of the equation.
> 
> Also with the popular hybrids take into account that the cars easily weigh 200 kilograms more than pure electric or diesel / petrol cars. This extra weight of plugin hybrids also requires extra electricity when running electric and more electricity means more CO2 in production as well - until we get C02 neutral or low CO2 power supply.
> 
> I recently drove a hydrogen concept car, but also hydrogen requires a lot of power to produce. So even when hydrogen in the car only lets clean, clear water leave the exhaust it is not perfect.
> 
> Audi has a natural gas concept which includes a very clean e-gas based supply chain that reduces C02 emissions across the entire process from energy production to driving emissions. http://www.audi.de/content/de/brand/de/neuwagen/a3/a3-sportback-g-tron.html


I see.

And if congestion causes pollution, an electric car presumably contributes just as much to that as a non-electric car of the same size....


----------



## Slagathor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Quite frankly I'm more concerned about air quality in urban streets and along motorways than global climate which whe can allegedly alter if CO2 emissions drop. CO2 is not harmful to health, but exhaust is. So I think electric or hydrogen cars are a huge step forward in cleaner mobility even if the total CO2 balance is not better.


I concur. Every time I cycle through the city and some dirty scooter passes me, I try not too think about what I'm inhaling.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N31 Leeuwarden*

A video of the newly opened N31 around Leeuwarden. It looks quite nice, although the older part (first in the video) has subsided a bit, quite fast for an expressway that opened just 7 years ago. It's a recurring problem in the Netherlands with its soft soils. 

Note that there is only 1 through lane at the 'Werpsterhoek' Interchange. The video includes two Dutch aquaducts (waterway underpasses).


----------



## Suburbanist

Is there any bare concrete pavement sector on any A-route in Netherlands left, or have they all been covered with porous asphalt?


----------



## Kanadzie

Penn's Woods said:


> Sure. Don't know what I was thinking. (Well, "a mile is 1,760 yards* so it must be a slightly smaller number of meters" is what I was thinking...)
> 
> Now that you mention it, France or Belgium uses a lot of 1600-meter signs, I think... I remember wondering if they'd just picked up an American standard somehow and metricized it.
> 
> *That sound you hear in the distance is Spinoza's head exploding.


Most of the exits in Quebec (e.g. Montreal area) are signed at 800 m, sometimes 1.5 km

But the roads were built when they used imperial system, and the sign used to say 1/2 m and 1 mile :lol:


----------



## Des

ChrisZwolle said:


> Quite frankly I'm more concerned about air quality in urban streets and along motorways than global climate which we can allegedly alter if CO2 emissions drop. CO2 is not harmful to health, but exhaust is. So I think electric or hydrogen cars are a huge step forward in cleaner mobility even if the total CO2 balance is not better.


CO2 is just easier to quantify, but a coal power plant also produces SO2, NOx, mercury and particals. Replacing normal cars with electric cars might make your street cleaner but the increase in power demand can cover large areas around power plants with polution. Electric cars only work when the energy comes from renewable and clean energy. At even than the batteries are an unsolved issue. 

While we wait for a energy revolution, making existing petrol and diesel cars cleaner is crucial in the meantime.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> Is there any bare concrete pavement sector on any A-route in Netherlands left, or have they all been covered with porous asphalt?


A77 has a kilometer or so of concrete at the German border. 

The A1 near Oldenzaal and A28 Utrecht - Amersfoort have been repaved a few years ago. 

A50 Oss - Eindhoven has a base of concrete, but is overlaid with asphalt.

Concrete is a pain in the ass with the busy traffic in the Netherlands. In theory it lasts long, but it is cumbersome to repair. It is also very noisy and has poor drainage capabilities. 

A 2003 photo of A50 Oss - Eindhoven with its concrete base:


----------



## Slagathor

Does a concrete base + porous asphalt layer differ from porous asphalt roads that have a different base? I mean, in terms of maintenance; you're usually just reparing the top layer anyway, right?


----------



## MrAronymous

I'm guessing it's more stable and longer lasting than, let's say, a dirt & gravel bed.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N196 Aalsmeer - Hoofddorp*

The former N201, current N196 between Aalsmeer and Hoofddorp was bypassed on a new alignment. It used to be the busiest provincial road in the Netherlands with 65,000 vehicles per day. Now it is deserted.


----------



## Suburbanist

will they rebuild the road to lesser standards?


----------



## Road_UK

Wouldn't that be against your principles?


----------



## Slagathor

He would chain himself to the divider the same way greenies chain themselves to trees.


----------



## snowdog

I hope they don't, don't fix what isn't broken!


----------



## MrAronymous

But it will eventually be broken. Literally. And the concept of a 2x3 lane road only carrying 2x1 road worths of traffic could be classified as 'broken'. Plus there would be new room or redevelopment and general advantages for locals (like being able to cross the road).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The six-lane segment with little traffic is only 2 kilometers long. They will probably develop the area, so traffic will grow in the future. It was widened from 2x2 to 2x3 lanes in 2007-2008.


----------



## Suburbanist

Whether I like it or not, I think the road will be downgraded eventually. It is crammed withing built-up areas, such as here or here.

They will probably rebuilt it as a 1+1 local road with a parallel high-performance wide cycle path and a 50km/h speed limit.

Speaking of N201 (the route that by-passed N196), they should work on extending it to A2. IT would be helpful.


----------



## Wilhem275

Chris, could you please point out the old and new segments on the map? I'm confused by the works going on seen in sat imagery.


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ But it violates every principle of a safety system based on spatial segregation and the presumption that foreign bodies on the rail track are dangerous by principle, so they are restricted to monitored (cameras) crossings only.


----------



## Coccodrillo

When these railways were built there were virtually any traffic on these roads, and as building alternatives now would often mean tunnels, these street running sections remain in place. But as soon they can be eliminated easily and cheaply, they are.

Where this isn't possible for economical reasons, other alternatives are found (the street running section in Chur has been partially doubled to follow road traffic running, more red lights for road vehicles are placed, ...).


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ Some system like RhB, with all its road-traffic interference and also other operational issues, would probably be long closed and dismantled in any other country than Switzerland, but that is way off topic.


----------



## friedrichstrasse

In Switzerland most of them are local railways with narrow gauge, usually on local roads.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Kethelplein Interchange, Rotterdam*

The Kethelplein Interchange (A4/A20) in September 2014, during reconstruction due to the A4 extension. Note the unusual amount of noise barriers. It almost looks like Poland.


----------



## Suburbanist

Will they eventually raise the limit on the new sector around Steenbergen to 130 km/h?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4, Leiden*

The 'Limes Aquaduct' before and after.


----------



## eindhoven the best

The yet to be built exit 31 Veldhoven-West (A67-N69) near Eindhoven.










More information : www.kempenbaanveldhoven.nl


----------



## keokiracer

Suburbanist said:


> Will they eventually raise the limit on the new sector around Steenbergen to 130 km/h?


They might as well, everyone already drives 130+ anyway :lol:
Cruising with 140-145 (on speedometer) and still got ovetaken twice, and I only overtook 2 cars. Traffic flow seems to be 140-ish :yes:


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Kethelplein Interchange (A4/A20) in September 2014, during reconstruction due to the A4 extension. Note the unusual amount of noise barriers. It almost looks like Poland.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/EOyFKGJ.jpg[img][/QUOTE]
> The difference being, here is an actual built-up area high-ish buildings. Those noise barriers make sense in this part, unlike the half sunken solution in the middle of a grassland between Delft and Schiedam!
> 
> The A4 should've been built half a century ago, but, better late than never!


----------



## Suburbanist

keokiracer said:


> They might as well, everyone already drives 130+ anyway :lol:
> Cruising with 140-145 (on speedometer) and still got ovetaken twice, and I only overtook 2 cars. Traffic flow seems to be 140-ish :yes:


I drove there yesterday (en-route to that pic whose road number I'd got wrong above), I well remember not many drivers slowing down.


-----------

Something is extremely wrong with this map! Just took a screenshot of my computer.


----------



## snowdog

Seems to be just on the sattelite view + labels.
It's not on the ''map'' view!


----------



## keokiracer

snowdog said:


> Seems to be just on the sattelite view + labels.


Yep. For some reason roads under construction are shown as 'finished' in satellite+labels view.


----------



## Suburbanist

keokiracer said:


> Yep. For some reason roads under construction are shown as 'finished' in satellite+labels view.


A like the looks of A4 on that map :cheers:

How is traffic on N470 and N471? Are they good alternatives for peak traffic Zoetermeer-Rotterdam, or are drivers better off (time spent on road) going via A12-A4-A13?


----------



## snowdog

I don't drive that route often, but I can't say I've ever been stuck in a traffic jam there.

I'd imagine it's a perfectly fine route, I drive either like that, or the A20>N219>A12. I can't really say for peak times.


----------



## da_scotty

Suburbanist said:


> A like the looks of A4 on that map :cheers:
> 
> How is traffic on N470 and N471? Are they good alternatives for peak traffic Zoetermeer-Rotterdam, or are drivers better off (time spent on road) going via A12-A4-A13?


From the N470 point of view, there is a dot-matrix-sign in Delft just before the A13-junction. It displays the driving time of the A13/A12 and N470/A12 route towards Gouda, normally the A13/A12 option is a minute faster, in rush hour I've seen a 3 minute difference in favour of the N470!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15/A16 Ridderkerk interchange, Rotterdam*

The Ridderkerk motorway interchange near Rotterdam.



























All photos by Beeldbank Rijkswaterstaat / Joop van Houdt


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> Note how the off ramp immediately enters a residential street.
> http://i.imgur.com/cBpWock.jpg[img][/QUOTE]
> 
> It's a shame there are so few places like this, I'd love to live next to there.
> 
> Exit motorway > I'm home.
> And leave home > Ahh motorway.
> 
> No annoying slow (sub)urban areas to traverse through slowly, just jump in and 100+ km/h :).


----------



## UnequalSine

Suburbanist said:


> How is traffic on N470 and N471? Are they good alternatives for peak traffic Zoetermeer-Rotterdam, or are drivers better off (time spent on road) going via A12-A4-A13?


As a daily traveller between Zoetermeer and Rotterdam during peak traffic, I prefer to travel using the A12-N219-A20. This route has, on average, the least delay. Using the N470 and N471 means using parts of the A13 and/or A20 which are notorious for heavy traffic during rush hour. Without traffic the N471 is properly the fastest route.

The (disappointing) connection between the two cities will be improved in the near future. The A13/A16-project will connect the A16 to the N209, and thus creating a far more direct route between Rotterdam and Zoetermeer.


----------



## Suburbanist

An interesting video (Dutch) about the construction of the 2nd span of the Brienenoord bridge (A16) in Rotterdam. There is some cool footage as well.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This should freak snowdog out.... 

The Heulweg underpass at A15 in Rotterdam has been replaced by - you read this right - a canoe crossing.

before:









after:








photos by Palance.


----------



## Penn's Woods

snowdog said:


> It's a shame there are so few places like this, I'd love to live next to there.
> 
> Exit motorway > I'm home.
> And leave home > Ahh motorway.
> 
> No annoying slow (sub)urban areas to traverse through slowly, just jump in and 100+ km/h .


What you need is to find a disused service area. Your own exit from, and entrance to, the motorway. Of course, if just a few other people did that, that would sort of defeat the whole idea of "limited access"....

(Seriously, ramps dumping traffic right into residential neighborhoods? Residents, keep an eye on your kids....)


----------



## snowdog

Limited access is not what I'm aiming for, quick access, without being bogged down by slow suburban roads is what would be awesome:
http://goo.gl/maps/Jzfbd
Also lovely easy access to a motorway. Shame there is no exit for it .


> keep an eye on your kids


Too young for kids, maybe in a year or 10 I'd want to retire to a quiet child friendly neighborhood, atm I just see them as annoying money guzzling noisy poop factories and have no intention of making any .

I've used that exit in Waalwijk once to turn around, because I didn't read the signs correctly and entered the A59 in the wrong direction from the N261 once . Personally found it pretty awesome, an exit immediately into a residential area, no traffic lights, etc .


----------



## da_scotty

snowdog said:


> Limited access is not what I'm aiming for, quick access, without being bogged down by slow suburban roads is what would be awesome:
> http://goo.gl/maps/Jzfbd
> Also lovely easy access to a motorway. Shame there is no exit for it .
> 
> Too young for kids, maybe in a year or 10 I'd want to retire to a quiet child friendly neighborhood, atm I just see them as annoying money guzzling noisy poop factories and have no intention of making any .
> 
> I've used that exit in Waalwijk once to turn around, because I didn't read the signs correctly and entered the A59 in the wrong direction from the N261 once . Personally found it pretty awesome, an exit immediately into a residential area, no traffic lights, etc .


You don't get the point he is making do youhno:


----------



## Wilhem275

Road signage. What is the meaning of the double "stop line" in this example? Where is one supposed to stop?

(you can see my window in that picture )

PS: personal OT, I'll be in this country for 18 days from now. If anyone wants to meet, it's the last call... :cheers:


----------



## EPA001

Suburbanist said:


> An interesting video (Dutch) about the construction of the 2nd span of the Brienenoord bridge (A16) in Rotterdam. There is some cool footage as well.


Very nice to see this again. kay: It is a shortened version of a bigger documentary which was about 1 hour long. I followed the transport of the bridge at Zwijndrecht, de Spijkenisserbrug, the Botlekbrug and in the heart of the city when the Koningshavenbrug (de Hef) was passed. A few days later I also was on-site to see the bridge being positioned alongside the first bridge. Those were unique moments which I will never forget.


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> This should freak snowdog out....
> 
> The Heulweg underpass at A15 in Rotterdam has been replaced by - you read this right - a canoe crossing.
> 
> before:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> after:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> photos by Palance.


With the new connection opened which connects the Zuiderparkweg in Rotterdam with the new suburban areas Portland and Carnisselande just a couple of hundred meters further down the road this tunnel was not necessary anymore for the passage of cars. The bike-route and pedestrian roads are still there.

This connection is more than only a canoe crossing. And it was always planned as such a type of connection. This tunnel is part of the so-called "Blue Connection" (de blauwe verbinding) which has three purposes:

1. The transport of clean and fresh water from the river "Oude Maas" to the Zuiderpark recreational area;
2. Recreative route for very small boats (also canoes) between the Zuiderpark recreational area (North of the A15 Motorway), the Zuidelijk Randpark and the polders "Het Buytenland" and the "Zuidpolder"
3. Ecological connection between green areas in the city area and (future) nature areas on the island "IJsselmonde".

(In Dutch:



> • Aanvoer van schoon water vanuit de Oude Maas naar het Zuiderpark;
> • Recreatieve vaarroute tussen het Zuiderpark, het Zuidelijk Randpark, het Buytenland en de Zuidpolder;
> • Ecologische verbinding tussen groengebieden in het stedelijke gebied en (toekomstige) natuurgebieden op IJsselmonde.)


See this pdf: http://www.rotterdam.nl/GW/Images/B...ringsprogram_BlauweVerbinding_mrt2010_Web.pdf


----------



## Suburbanist

What about this water staircase ?


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> This should freak snowdog out....
> 
> The Heulweg underpass at A15 in Rotterdam has been replaced by - you read this right - a canoe crossing.


He'll be all right if he can use a speedboat.


----------



## EPA001

Suburbanist said:


> What about this water staircase ?


That is a part of new tunnel which I described earlier. The water staircase is a piece of art. It is not part of the described "Blue Connection". This connection functions very well as it connects directly to the P&R Metrostation Slinge and 1,4 km further to the Ahoy Sport- and Exhibition Complex, Shopping Centre Zuidplein and Metrostation Zuidplein.  But is was also long overdue but could not be finished earlier since the connection was part of the works to widen the A15 motorway.

See: http://www.rijkswaterstaat.nl/wegen...brief/maart_2012/verlengde_zuiderparkweg.aspx


----------



## aswnl

Wilhem275 said:


> Road signage. What is the meaning of the double "stop line" in this example? Where is one supposed to stop?


The middle one


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Ecocrossing along N260 at the bridge across the Wilhelmina Canal in Tilburg.


----------



## MrAronymous

Wilhem275 said:


> Road signage. What is the meaning of the double "stop line".


There is no double stop line. There is only one stop line and it's next to the one that's on the bike lane. The other line is part of the zig-zag-thingy.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The unusual A15 (N15 until later this year) - N57 interchange at Brielle, Port of Rotterdam. The Harmsen Bridge is on the left, spanning the Hartel Canal. It was built in 1968.











The Caland Bridge across the Caland Canal in the Port of Rotterdam. It was built in 1969, it needs renovation in a couple of years, and there is a desire to expand rail capacity across the bridge. Alternatives are studied, but there doesn't seem to be enough money for a new bridge. Renovation seems most likely.











The Thomassen Tunnel opened in 2004 to relieve the Caland Bridge. The tunnel is for highway traffic, the bridge is now mainly for hazmats, some local traffic and a major rail connection. The westbound tube was recently restriped to three lanes.











The A15-A24 interchange will be constructed at this location. They kept space for such an interchange and new tunnel route for A24.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Dense infrastructure along A15 in Rotterdam:


----------



## Suburbanist

All those wind breakers on the Caland bridge make for a very interesting, almost surreal, visual impression (Google SV) as you approach them.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Gaag Aquaduct*

The aquaduct at Delft. Typical 1990s waste of money. The canal is not navigable due to the low bridges (such as the one in the photo)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A27 Utrecht*

The A27 at Utrecht was built in a depressed alignment. It was a controversial project, they had to send in riot police to remove protestors who set up camp there. It was critized as 'hugely oversized' and 'unnecessary'. It opened in 1986.

Traffic volumes reached 118,000 vehicles per day within 3 years of opening and 194,000 vehicles by 2006. It is currently planned to widen this segment to 14 lanes (again, a controversial project as Utrecht is the epicenter of the 'Greenleft' party).

A27 at opening in October 1986.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Schiphol*

The eight-lane A4 at Schiphol Airport in 1986, with a Yugoslav Airlines plane crossing the motorway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The average distance between exits (not: motorway-to-motorway interchanges) by province.









Map by: Myquandro


----------



## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> A tanker truck with hazardous materials has been involved in an accident on A73 near Linne. Emergency services scaled the call up to GRIP 3 which doesn't happen too often (especially not with traffic accidents).


Basically the truck with hazardous materials didn't see a traffic jam (because of another truck accident a few kms south on A2 (picture). This crash then caused a back-up, the two tunnels near Roermond were closed (probably due to the 'Tunnelwet' and traffic jams not being allowed in tunnels) which caused traffic jams at the exit before the Roertunnel. And now about an hour ago another truck crash happened because - most likely (I'm speculating here) - the trucker missed the traffic jam for that same exit. Just like happened in the 2nd crash. Currently 30 kilometers of southbound A73 is closed due to the 2 crashes.










Not a good day for truck drivers in southern-NL hno:


----------



## ChasingCars

^^
Not a good day for road safety and automobility in Limburg!

I am seriously worried about the mental and physical state of truck drivers as well as the technical state of their vehicles. 3 very serious accidents, all involving multiple trucks, that's not a coincidence anymore.
Either a lot of truck drivers are not paying attention to the road (too tired, distracted by phone, etcetera?), or their trucks are in such a bad shape that they can't avoid an accident (brake malfunction, worn tyres, etcetera).


----------



## Alqaszar

The hazardous material is hydrochloric acid, wich formed a poisenous cloud of gas around the site of the accident. Cars had to be washed down because of the caustic properties of that stuff.


----------



## keokiracer

ChasingCars said:


> 3 very serious accidents, all involving multiple trucks, that's not a coincidence anymore.


Well it apparently is a coïncidence since it's not happening on a daily basis.

'all involving multiple trucks'
Yeah, but it only takes one of the to fvck up and take out 4 or 5 more...


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

@ChrisZwolle i think that all busy motorways which are on the west of the country are busy simply because there are located 3 biggest cities in the Netherlands.


----------



## da_scotty

^^
no shit...


On a side note, do we expect any shifts in this list the coming years?


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

@da scotty Please behave.


----------



## Neverworld

ChrisZwolle said:


> The busiest motorway stretches in the Netherlands. I excluded segments that are directly adjoining another busy segment. The data is based on 2013 annual average workday volumes.
> 
> * A4 Prins Clausplein - Ypenburg: 239.900
> * A15/A16 Ridderkerk-Noord - Ridderkerk-Zuid: 235.300
> * A16 Rotterdam-Centrum - Rotterdam-Feijenoord: 226.900
> * A10 De Nieuwe Meer - Amsterdam-Oud Zuid: 214.400
> * A4 De Hoek - Hoofddorp: 214.300
> * A12 Utrecht-Kanaleneiland - Utrecht-Hoograven: 213.700
> * A2 Utrecht-Centrum - Oudenrijn: 206.900
> * A4 Amsterdam-Sloten - Badhoevedorp: 186.400
> * A1 Muiden - Muiden-Oost: 185.700
> * A2 Holendrecht - Abcoude: 185.500
> * A27 Lunetten - Rijnsweerd: 185.500
> * A2 Eindhoven-Airport - Eindhoven-Centrum: 170.800
> 
> All locations over 170.000 vehicles per day are in western Netherlands, except A2 at Eindhoven which is in southern Netherlands. There are only a few stretches with over 100,000 vehicles per day outside the Randstad conurbation (A2 's-Hertogenbosch, A12 Arnhem, A28 Zwolle, A50 Nijmegen, A58 Tilburg, A67 Eindhoven).
> 
> The busiest intercity motorway is A2 between Amsterdam and Utrecht. The the lowest volume is 171.200 vehicles per day. A2 also has the longest stretch of 100.000+ traffic, from Amsterdam to Vught (86 kilometers).


Do you have a source with traffic volumes for every motorway or is it private information?


----------



## aswnl

da_scotty said:


> On a side note, do we expect any shifts in this list the coming years?


A1 near Muiden certainly still will grow significantly over the next years, so best chances of a higher ranking.


----------



## verfmeer

Due to the opening of the missing link on the A4 between Delft and Schiedam I also expect higher numbers on the A4 between Prins Clausplein and Ypenburg. The A13 and A4 will be less congested so people from Zoetermeer who now take the N470 or the N209 to Rotterdam, might move towards the A12-A4.

When that missing link opens there will also be a shift from traffic between the South of Rotterdam and Den Haag, and maybe even traffic between Antwerpen and Den haag will use the A4 instead of A16-A13. So I expect lower figures on the A16 in Rotterdam next year.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Neverworld said:


> Do you have a source with traffic volumes for every motorway or is it private information?


The source is INWEVA 2013. It is accessible via the 'nationaal georegister'. 

I added the 2013 volumes to Wegenwiki, for example A1 (Nederland)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

verfmeer said:


> Due to the opening of the missing link on the A4 between Delft and Schiedam I also expect higher numbers on the A4 between Prins Clausplein and Ypenburg. The A13 and A4 will be less congested so people from Zoetermeer who now take the N470 or the N209 to Rotterdam, might move towards the A12-A4.
> 
> When that missing link opens there will also be a shift from traffic between the South of Rotterdam and Den Haag, and maybe even traffic between Antwerpen and Den haag will use the A4 instead of A16-A13. So I expect lower figures on the A16 in Rotterdam next year.


The projected AADT in 2030 is 264.000 vehicles per day on A4 between Prins Clausplein (A12) and Ypenburg (A13). They plan to alleviate this traffic growth by constructing a local-express system through these interchanges. 

264.000 is actually a quite small traffic growth from 2013 (240.000). That's a growth of only 24.000 vehicles over 17 years, in a fast-growing area. I expected a volume of over 300.000 vehicles per day.

The projected traffic volume on A1 at Muiden is 317.000 vehicles per day in 2030 in a build-out scenario of Almere. This will be the highest volume in the Netherlands. 

The situation in Rotterdam is changing as well. Although the new A4 will relieve A13 and A16, it will overwhelm the Benelux Tunnel with traffic. For that reason, the Blankenburg Tunnel (A24) is planned. At the same time the A13-A16 link will increase traffic on the Van Brienenoord Bridge. The projected volume at the bridge is around 280.000 vehicles per day.

Rotterdam's motorway network is overwhelmed with traffic as it doesn't have the bypasses that Amsterdam has (A5 & A9). In addition, its metro area is more balanced 50/50 across the Maas River, so it has more problems with (the lack of) river crossings than Amsterdam.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N434 Rijnland Route, Leiden*

The final plans for the construction of N434 - Rijnland Route have been published. It involves a new link between A4 and A44 south of Leiden. It will reduce the travel time between those motorways from 20 to 3 minutes. It includes a 2.520 meter long bored twin-tube tunnel. The projected AADT is 57.000 vehicles per day.

The environmental impact statements for the construction of the A4 & A44 interchanges, plus the extension of the A4 local-express system and widening of A44 to 8 lanes have been published as well. 

Project website: http://www.zuid-holland.nl/onderwerpen/verkeer-vervoer/wegverkeer/rijnlandroute


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Leiden - Den Haag*

The final environmental impact statement for the widening of A4 between Leiden and Den Haag has been published today. The motorway will be widened from 2x3 to 2x4 lanes from the future Hofvliet Interchange (N434) to the Leidschendam interchange (N14). The projected AADT is 178.000 vehicles per day.


----------



## snowdog

This would be the R'dam area if it was up to me.









Red are planned/under construction.
Orange would be my additions.


Ideally all roads near Rotterdam should follow the 1972 plan :












A chart from 2003, about the decades which motorway was built when:








Missing some major connections in the south east ( at this time in 2003).


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ I like your ideas of new highways around Rotterdam, and I like the A3 , A62 and A18 proposed on the 1972 plan 

Strangely, though, there was no plan to extend A44 into Den Haag and linking with A4, and also is also omitted there. I think A59 is fairly important, and everything would be better if there wasn't his mismatch of general alignment of A58 and A59 west of A16.


----------



## verfmeer

snowdog said:


> Missing some major connections in the south east.


 Therefore I think a motorway Den Haag-Naaldwijk-Oostvoorne-Stellendam-Burgh Haamstede-Veere-Arnemuiden-Terneuzen-Zelzate-Gent would be a good idea. It would bypass Rotterdam and Antwerp for going through trafic, and it would drasticly shorten traveling times in the south-west.


----------



## ChasingCars

verfmeer said:


> Therefore I think a motorway Den Haag-Naaldwijk-Oostvoorne-Stellendam-Burgh Haamstede-Veere-Arnemuiden-Terneuzen-Zelzate-Gent would be a good idea. It would bypass Rotterdam and Antwerp for going through trafic, and it would drasticly shorten traveling times in the south-west.


Not true. In fact, as this proposed highway does not link any medium (let alone big) city, the underlying road network would have to be heavily upgraded as well in order to accomodate the traffic.
BTW, with the soon-to-open Sluiskiltunnel and the N61 and N62 being upgraded to full 2x2 motorway standard, a connection as proposed by you is well underway, at least in the Zeeuws-Vlaanderen part.
On the other hand, N57 badly needs improvement anyway so that would fit in your plan. Widening of N57 is most needed on the Voorne-Putten island (roughly between the towns of Spijkenisse and Hellevoetsluis). These cities with a total of 130.000 inhabitants are very poorly connected, infrastructure-wise. There are three connections to (heavily congested) A15, all via bridges that open for ships multiple times per hour, all-day. The only other connection is via a small ferry boat.


----------



## mappero

^^ (regarding this chart from post 12019)
Such a few The Netherlands to Germany motorways connection in 60's, 70's and 80's 
I remember still when A50 wasn't finished in vicinity of Eindhoven and was no motorway in between Venlo and Roermond 
OMG, time flies so fast!

Any progress on one of the few big motorways roundabout on A6/A7 near Joure?


----------



## Penn's Woods

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ I like your ideas of new highways around Rotterdam.


There's a surprise. :jk:

Neither of you has proposed fixing that obvious missing link right through the center of town between the A13 at Kleinpolderplein and the A29 at IJsselmonde.


----------



## EPA001

Suburbanist said:


> With the completion of the Middelburg bypass couple years ago, the most pressing need on N57 is to build a proper expressway around Burg and Serooskerke, which is the only low-grade sector of N57 left.


On the N57 the intersection with the N218 (Brielle-Spijkenisse, part of the Groene Kruisweg) has been changed a lot for the better. The crossing with traffic lights has been replaced by a new viaduct over this crossing. This means that the traffic flows so much safer, faster and smoother from and to the Harmsenbridge which connects the A15 with the N57. The viaduct was already opened on December 19th of last year.

Not all works are there completed yet but the trough traffic is profiting enormously from this new viaduct. Maybe this was already posted and I might have missed it, but it never hurts to post this "good news" again.


----------



## Bobbje

Jeroen669 said:


> Please, be glad that most of these roads are still saved from things like bollards or physical green medians. Road lay-outs like this are things that we should really be ashamed of.
> 
> Also, solid lines should also only be used when there are serious safety issues, like sharp curves, concealed entrances, blind hills etc. Not on roads like this.


The worst part of the N342, at the ring road of the city of Denekamp :banana: (lovely town:cheers, is this bend. Isn't one smooth bend, you need to change direction every time in here. And the speed limit is also strange, why not 80km/h?
BTW, the Netherlands have to much different speed limits... Its really confusing sometimes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A7-A8 Purmerend - Amsterdam*

The final environmental impact statement has been published for the construction of new shoulder lanes along A7 and A8 between Purmerend and Amsterdam.

The northbound shoulder lane will be extended south onto A8, to allow easier access and better evening rush hour traffic flow.

A new southbound shoulder lane will be constructed from Purmerend-Zuid to Oostzaan, merging into the Coenplein motorway interchange. It will be continuous through the Zaandam motorway interchange.










This is a temporary solution to alleviate traffic congestion and utilize the new Coen Tunnel capacity better during the morning rush hour. The A7 used to be one of the most notorious bottlenecks in the country, and is usually the first traffic jam to appear around 6 a.m. 

The final plan is to widen A8 to 12 lanes and A7 to 8 lanes and reconstruct the Zaandam cloverleaf by making Amsterdam - Purmerend the through direction.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15 Botlek Bridge*

A photo of the Botlek Bridge + Botlek Tunnel.



Godius said:


> Zag op instagram een interessant plaatje voorbij komen van de botlekbrug:


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

A2 near Amsterdam.This is close to the place where 2x5 starts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A44, Leiden*

The Old Rhine Bridge in Leiden. It carries A44. It was built in 1966. It will be replaced by an eight lane bridge as part of the 'Rijnlandroute' project.









By De Fotograaf


----------



## g.spinoza

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Old Rhine Bridge in Leiden. It carries A44. It was built in 1966. It will be replaced by an eight lane bridge as part of the 'Rijnlandroute' project.


In-site?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It will be an a-symmetrical widening. They build a new bridge on the west side, then demolish the existing bridge and build a second span at that location. So the axis of A44 will shift to the west.


----------



## Slagathor

A few people need to start packing.


----------



## EPA001

^^ That is unavoidable.  But this widening is also really necessary to handle all the traffic here.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Slagathor said:


> A few people need to start packing.


You wouldn't want to live under a motorway overpass?


----------



## Slagathor

Penn's Woods said:


> You wouldn't want to live under a motorway overpass?


Well if it's an overpass like that massive thing over a beautiful valley in Southern France, I would consider it. But as a rule of thumb, I'm gonna go with "no".


----------



## Penn's Woods

So, you sell your house to snowdog. Just let him build a personal on ramp.


----------



## Slagathor

He doesn't have any cash, he blew it all on chrome rims.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Ypenburg Motorway Interchange*

The Ypenburg Motorway Interchange in March 1968.

present day image


----------



## snowdog

Slagathor said:


> He doesn't have any cash, he blew it all on chrome rims.


Hardly, I travel more on on two wheelers these days than four wheelers, due to having to be in the city center nearly daily and refusing to pay for parking. :lol:

Plus chrome rims ? I like driving cars, not wasting cash unnecessarily on them, what type do you think I am, if I'd have to spend on my car it'd be on a turbo or larger intake manifold instead of rims  ( but nah, I don't spend any money on cars except to keep em driving, better save the cash for something better than thinking you can do a better job than the manufacturer) .

re: Those houses, I wouldn't mind living under a motorway, partly, however not entirely, but more so because of the lack of light.

The area under the motorway would make for a nice ''garage area'' though for all the cars .


----------



## da_scotty

I thought after your rant in the Rotterdam Mobiliteit section you hate biking?


----------



## keokiracer

da_scotty said:


> I thought after your rant in the Rotterdam Mobiliteit section you hate biking?


Moped


----------



## snowdog

Plus I don't hate biking, I hate low travel speeds, a racing bike is fine , ideally one that also helps me with an electric motor .

Only 2 months and one more week and I can finally get licence A, ( none of that A1/A2 rubbish), can't wait to have a motorbike, not be hassled with traffic jams or parking, but able to go on motorways .


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A6 Almere*

The A6 at Almere is being widened currently. This segment will be widened from 6 to 12 lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There is one traffic light just before the Emmeloord motorway interchange. Right now only buses can access N50 southbound, while all traffic can exit N50 in the other direction, making the return trip a detour to one of the A6 interchanges. As there are only buses accessing N50 southbound, you rarely have to stop for a red light (I drive here frequently and can't recall when the last time I had to stop there).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N50 Ens - Emmeloord*

I created a gif of the new 'Emmeloord-Zuid' interchange of N50 (Exit 34).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9, Amsterdam*

Construction of the new A9 bridge across the Amsterdam-Rhine Canal near the Diemen motorway interchange, just outside Amsterdam. It's part of the SAA project. It's the first new (large) bridge of this type in the Netherlands in over a decade.


----------



## bogdymol

^^ That view looks familiar to me.

(link - A1 Motorway nearby Arad, Romania / Mures Bridge / picture date 01.04.2011)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, it is the same bridge type. They are efficient for spans that are too long for traditional beams, but too short for a more expensive cable-stayed design (i.e. 75 - 200 meters). There were a large number of these bridges in the Benelux built in the 1970s. 

The last one built in the Netherlands was the Julian J. Ewell Bridge near Veghel (A50) in 2003.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A8-A7 Amsterdam - Hoorn*

The plan approval procedure has been started for the widening of A8 and A7 between Amsterdam and Hoorn. It was originally initiated as Amsterdam - Purmerend, but they decided to expand the scope to the Hoorn-North interchange. 

The first phase includes drawing up alternatives with a broad scope which fit within the budget of € 300 million. It is unlikely that € 300 million could fund a widening of A7 between Purmerend to Hoorn-North in addition to the original plans of Amsterdam - Purmerend-North. 

The preferred alternative will be selected in Q1 2017. The funding will not become available until 2023, so there is plenty of time to work out the alternatives. The first phase includes all modalities and spatial components in the area. 

The unofficial preferred alternative is a widening of A8 to 2x6 lanes, reconstructing the Zaandam motorway interchange to make Amsterdam - Purmerend the through route, and a widening of A7 to 2x4 lanes up to Purmerend-South and 2x3 lanes to Purmerend-North. A logical extension would be 2x3 lanes to Hoorn-North.

The whole project scope includes 33.5 kilometers of motorway.


----------



## bigic

Is construction of a motorway between Alkmaar and Hoorn planned?


----------



## da_scotty

Nop, There are plans for a Zaandam-heemskerk expansion along the current A8 line.


----------



## maral

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Groningen earthquakes are shallow and local. Their magnitude rarely exceeds 3.0, I doubt if they need upgraded seismic standards. In most countries a 3.0 magnitude earthquake would not make the news, but these are caused by extraction of natural gas, so they are shallow and easier felt than regular tectonic earthquakes of this magnitude. It's not like California or Japan where earthquakes in excess of 7.0 magnitude are possible.


6 in recent years with >3.0

Magnitude doesn't tell the story. Shallow, type of soil, repetition. One quake not that bad, had 25 already this year. etc

Advice is follow the Excisting Eurocode 8

http://www.nen.nl/NEN-Shop/Vakgebieden/Bouw/Eurocodes/Veilige-constructies-bij-aardbevingen.htm

New guidelines for buildings, de nieuwe Nederlandse Praktijkrichtlijn etc

http://www.nen.nl/NEN-Shop/Norm/NPR-99982015-Ontw.-nl.htm



The answer is no a definetly no Chris.


----------



## maral

^^

Sontbrug :



> De aardbevingen gaan de stad veel geld kosten. Nieuwbouw moet voortaan aardbevingsbestendig zijn en dat is duur. *Daardoor gaat de nieuwe Sontbrug over het Winschoterdiep, de langste in de provincie, 15 miljoen euro meer kosten dan begroot.* Ook het nieuwe cultuurcentrum aan de Grote Markt, het Forum, moet steviger worden gebouwd en wordt dus duurder.


N7 Ring zuid :



> Aanleg Ring Zuid niet vertraagd door aardbevingen
> 
> De bouw van de nieuwe zuidelijke ringweg in de Stad loopt geen vertraging op door maatregelen om de weg aardbevingsbestendig te maken. Dat zegt wethouder Paul de Rook.
> 
> Woensdag werd bekend dat de bouw van het Groninger Forum wel vertraging oploopt. De gemeente neemt vier maanden de tijd om uit te zoeken wat de nieuwe normen voor aardbevingsbestendig bouwen betekenen voor het Forum.
> 
> Kleine wijzigingen
> Uit een eerste onderzoek naar de gevolgen voor de ringweg blijkt dat de benodigde aanpassingen niet zo groot zijn. Wethouder Paul de Rook: 'Een aantal kleine wijzigingen zal het uiteraard wel hebben. Misschien een versteviging hier of daar.'
> 
> Verschil met Forum
> Het grote verschil met de situatie rond het Forum is de fase waarin het bouwproject is. 'We hebben nu acht maanden de tijd om met de potentiële aannemers het ontwerp definitief te maken. Daarin nemen we de aardbevingsbestendigheid mee.'
> 
> De meerkosten zijn volgens De Rook voor het Rijk. Die heeft toegezegd de kosten te betalen. 'We houden zorgvuldig bij wat de meerkosten zijn en die brengen we in rekening bij het Rijk en bij de NAM.'


----------



## ChrisZwolle

These seismic standards are brand new (less than one month). For which magnitude are they designed? 

I wonder what the previous seismic standards were. Although notable earthquakes in the Netherlands are rare, there was a 5.8 magnitude earthquake near Roermond in 1992. But it didn't cause much structural damage (mostly cracks in walls and falling roof tiles). This site claims there were no seismic standards at that time.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

These are the earthquakes in Groningen (of all magnitudes). They cluster around the gas fields. They are all very shallow (around 3 km in depth) which is the reason why they are felt more widely than usual. 









http://www.zesnuleen.nl/aardbevingennoordnederland/


----------



## maral

The European standards, Eurocode 8, are from 2007. So, maybe no standards in '92.
But those are, maybe quite logical, not in implied in Netherlands. (kosten/baten/risico)
For province of Groningen it is now stated that we should follow the new NPR for new buildings, renovating etc. 
It's not about designing for magnitudes, but Peak Ground Acceleration (PGA)
For example the PGA's from an quake neer Loppersum










We have a lot of old brick houses/buildings in Groningen Province with bad foundation.
For example some school buildings you can only call safe with PGA of 0.2 or less and two are closed and renovation is going now. Some 120 will be investigated according the new NPR.

In the Netherlands the 'acceptable' risk of dying due a collapsed building is set at 1:100.000. In our province is that on average with PGA in mind 1:10.000, with some 35.000 buildings with an even bigger risk than 1:10.000



> In de Eurocode wordt bijvoorbeeld ongewapende baksteenbouw verboden bij een
> piekgrondversnelling groter dan 0,2 g.


I am not familiar with the new specific demands in the NPR for new bridges etc, but it will something like the above.
What is the possible PGA on a location and what do we have to do to build in a way that it can stand those


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## KIWIKAAS

I would have thought that pretty much all structures built in the last 50-60 years would be ok. Bridges and viaducts certainly. 
Of course the ground is soft but even accounting for this the magnitudes are extremely low (most between 1.9 and 2.9. Micro quakes) and pretty much all the damage is to very old structures.
Of course the extremely extensive use of brick in NL certainly makes minor damage more likely even with very light tremors but large reinforced concrete and steel structures would be just fine I would imagine.
I don't know why one would need to change requirements there.


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## ChrisZwolle

Bridges are also designed to handle a continuous heavy load and stress. I assume they can withstand these earthquakes better than the relatively old housing stock in rural Groningen. 

I've read Groningen is the most extensively monitored area of the planet today. A peak ground acceleration of 0.4 is quite significant. It depends heavily on the ground type and is not necessarily related to the magnitude of the earthquake.


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## KIWIKAAS

^^ Isn't a tremor of 2-2.5 about the same feeling as a large truck driving by?
I grew up with tremors of 4-4.5 (about 100x the energy released) and that was just enough to get the cups and glasses rattling a bit. No structural damage. Of course the ground there wasn't as soft as is the case in Groningen.


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## ChrisZwolle

The exact effect is highly dependent on the soil type and depth. With regular tectonic earthquakes, a 3.0 - 4.0 earthquake is strong enough to be felt, but does little damage. However, the Groningen earthquakes are very shallow and induced by natural gas extraction, so their impact is more significant than one would expect based on the magnitude. A 7.0 may do little damage in Japan, but a 6.6 killed 26,000 people in Iran due to poor construction standards.


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## ChrisZwolle

Seismic retrofitting is extremely expensive by the way. They are upgrading all bridges in California, spending billions of dollars on them. Retrofitting 9 bridges near San Francisco cost nearly a billion dollars _each_.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seismic_retrofit#Bridge_retrofit

http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/paffairs/about/retrofit.htm


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## maral

Main difference is of course the depth.
In japan depth's fot example can be 30km ore more.
Groningen 3km. That and the clay..make even a minor quake felt...

That's why some people in Groningen say it maybe better to look at the scale of mercalli

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schaal_van_Mercalli


And note that the same area's are hit again and again. So the damage done is getting bigger with every quake


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## maral

ChrisZwolle said:


> Seismic retrofitting is extremely expensive by the way. They are upgrading all bridges in California, spending billions of dollars on them. Retrofitting 9 bridges near San Francisco cost nearly a billion dollars _each_.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seismic_retrofit#Bridge_retrofit
> 
> http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/paffairs/about/retrofit.htm


Only reïnforcing houses is an estimated 6,5 billion euro's.
Doesn't even include hospitals, churches, schools etc or the extra costs for example the new bridge i mentioned.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N35 Nijverdal - Wierden*

The minister of transportation has selected the preferred alternative for the N35 upgrade between Nijverdal and Wierden.

The preferred alternative is a new alignment of 2x2 N35 along the existing railroad, called the 'northern variant' (as opposed to upgrading the existing road, called the 'southern variant'). It includes two grade-separated interchanges at Nijverdal and Wierden-West. Included in the process was a financing deal: € 121.5 million of which the national government pays € 50 million, the rest will be financed by Overijssel province and municipalities involved.










Construction is planned to begin in 2019. Recent polls for the upcoming provincial elections showed no province had more support for better roads than Overijssel. It has one of the worst connections between economic regions within the province. (Zwolle - Almelo, Zwolle - Deventer, Almelo - Hardenberg, Zwolle - Hardenberg all being slow 80 km/h connections and/or lacking capacity).


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## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Hilversum - Amersfoort*

Construction began today on the widening of eastbound A1 from Bunschoten to the Hoevelaken motorway interchange (A1/A28). The motorway will be widened eastbound only from 2 to 3 lanes. 

The widening is temporary, to match the upcoming widening of A1 from Hilversum to Bunschoten (2x4). Otherwise there would be a significant bottleneck at Bunschoten where eastbound traffic would funnel down from 4 to 2 lanes. 

Eventually this segment of A1 will be widened in both directions, to 4 lanes each way. That project won't start until 2019 or so, and is part of the Hoevelaken motorway interchange reconstruction. The bridge across the railroad will be replaced with a wider bridge that is sufficient for a future layout of 4 lanes and a shoulder (so that they don't have to widen it twice).

The widening will be completed late 2015.


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## snowdog

What about Hilversum to Bussum ?

iirc that was 2x2 lanes and a major bottleneck ?


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## ChrisZwolle

There are shoulder lanes on that section of A1. A widening along that stretch would be very expensive.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Steenbergen*

The Steenbergen aan Zee Aquaduct, which opened in November last year.









http://defotograaf.eu/blog/aquaduct-a4-steenbergen/


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## Slagathor

I really hate that name.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A6, Almere*

An annotated photo of the A6 in Almere. The 'Hogering' exit will be reconstructed into a free-flow semi-turbine interchange, including a reversible lane. It is the first major Almere exit coming from Amsterdam and handles a lot of traffic. It is part of the SAA megaproject.


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## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> There are shoulder lanes on that section of A1. A widening along that stretch would be very expensive.


It would be. But are there plans to widen the road there or will the narrow situation remain there? :dunno:


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## da_scotty

This would be one of the places where a land-tunnel would be justified, instead of a glorified tunnel like in Utrecht.


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## EUbureaucrat

Wilhem275 said:


> That was 1981. This triggers a big question: when did NL begin to design infrastructures having a big plan in mind?


Late reply to this question but I felt one element was missing from the subsequent discussion: demographics. I mean, the Netherlands HAD to start thinking big at some point because its population was growing so much faster than in the neighbouring countries. Due to much higher birthrates NL saw its population triple in the 20th century (5-16 million). Belgium started the century with 7 million inhabitants and finished it with about 10 million... Between 1950 and 2000 the Netherlands added 6 million people (+60%). Belgium about 1,5 million (+18%) and Germany about 14 million (+20%). Nowadays the differences between BE and NL are less pronounced. Both slowly keep growing. Germany, however, is already past its demographic peak. If you consider that most of the population growth in the Netherlands will take place in the central and western parts of the country, which is project to grow from about 8 to 10 million (+25%) in the next few decades, you understand generous additional space reservations on motorways like the A4 (near Leiden)


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## ChrisZwolle

*N61 Hoek - Schoondijke*

The N61 upgrade project in Zeeland province has been mostly completed by now.

Note how they both built a wide bike path and a local access road. Often these are combined, but there are some arguments to build a detached bike path as well, due to the large (dangerous) agricultural machines that use the access roads.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N233, Rhenen*

Construction will start this year on a reversible lane across the Rhine River Bridge at Rhenen. It is located on the border of Utrecht and Gelderland provinces, and carries regional traffic. It is the only fixed link across the Rhine between A27 and A50, which are over 50 kilometers apart. Both sides of the river are relatively densely settled with numerous towns and small cities.

The bridge will be widened to accommodate the third lane. The bridge was built in 1957 and carries 32,000 vehicles per day on two lanes. The project is planned for completion in 2018.


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## Suburbanist

Why is the bike path not red? :dunno:


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## da_scotty

Red bike paths are nearly always in urban areas, and if the path is joined with other trafic. 
When seperated it doesn't need a special colour.



> Construction will start this year on a reversible lane across the Rhine River Bridge at Rhenen. It is located on the border of Utrecht and Gelderland provinces, and carries regional traffic. It is the only fixed link across the Rhine between A27 and A50, which are over 50 kilometers apart. Both sides of the river are relatively densely settled with numerous towns and small cities.
> 
> The bridge will be widened to accommodate the third lane. The bridge was built in 1957 and carries 32,000 vehicles per day on two lanes. The project is planned for completion in 2018.


Will us dutch be able to handle this, it's way to often that we hear people ignoring crossed of sections. Remember the reversing lane at the Coentunnel? And this is without barriers.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Ede - Arnhem*

Construction officially started today on the widening of A12 between Ede and the Grijsoord motorway interchange (A12/A50) near Arnhem. The motorway will be widened from four to six lanes. It is a fairly straightforward widening with a new lane in each direction on the outer side. The Oosterbeek interchange will get a new bridge across A12. The Grijsoord motorway interchange will get another lane from A50 north to A12 west, but remains otherwise unchanged (2 through lanes in each direction). 

This is the second-last part of A12 to be widened to six lanes. The project will be completed by late 2016. Regional media claim there will be a 120 km/h workzone speed limit most of the time.


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## Neverworld

da_scotty said:


> Red bike paths are nearly always in urban areas, and if the path is joined with other trafic.
> When seperated it doesn't need a special colour.
> 
> 
> 
> Will us dutch be able to handle this, it's way to often that we hear people ignoring crossed of sections. Remember the reversing lane at the Coentunnel? And this is without barriers.


The bigger question is whether the tidal flow system actually makes sense. I think the theory is that people travel North during morning rush hour and South during evening rush hour, but I'm not sure it's that clearcut in practice. It's common to get stuck in traffic long before the actual bridge entering from the A15 (South) side in the afternoon. I hope and expect the redesigned intersection (which is an elegant solution using the very limited space effectively) in Rhenen will have a bigger effect.


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## ChrisZwolle

The traffic volume of 32,000 vehicles per day on the bridge is extremely high for two lanes. I'm also not too sure whether it has such a clear tidal flow of traffic, but apparently they couldn't widen the bridge to four lanes. 

Although the bridge was built in 1957, it was actually a railroad bridge dating back to 1883. It was destroyed in 1940 and 1944 and reopened in 1957 as a road bridge.


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## ChrisZwolle

Construction began this week on the new Máxima Bridge in Alphen aan den Rijn. It will cross an old branch of the Rhine River. The bridge was in the making for four decades.


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## McBeans

Is there any progress building the rondweg alphen that would use the 2x2 capacity of the bridge, or is that still planned in the 2020s


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## ChrisZwolle

Ice roads in the Netherlands? Yes, in 1963 the IJsselmeer (Lake IJssel) froze over, allowing a quick route across the lake. They even installed signs.


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## ChrisZwolle

Large turbo roundabouts in Westland municipality.



















More photos by De Fotograaf


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## Attus

^^Such roundabouts are called in Hungary as 'Dutch Roundabout'.


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## ChrisZwolle

An unusual traffic light setup at the end of unsigned rijksweg 783 (A73 branch) in Nijmegen.


DSC_0001.jpg by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0004.jpg by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0014.jpg by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr


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## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Ice roads in the Netherlands? Yes, in 1963 the IJsselmeer (Lake IJssel) froze over, allowing a quick route across the lake. They even installed signs.


We have video!


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## Pietruch

ChrisZwolle said:


> Large turbo roundabouts in Westland municipality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More photos by De Fotograaf


Turborotonde or turboplein  ?

http://www.wegenwiki.nl/Turboplein


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## Kanadzie

Looking at the general area, its turbopolder :lol:


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## [atomic]

ChrisZwolle said:


> Large turbo roundabouts in Westland municipality.


is that underpass for Bicycles?


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## Ni3lS

the Dutch sure love cyclists but not THAT much  (I hope). It looks too big / wide for just bicycles.


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## ChrisZwolle

Pietruch said:


> Turborotonde or turboplein  ?
> 
> http://www.wegenwiki.nl/Turboplein


Technically they are a 'turboplein'. But there isn't really an English name for it. Sure, you can translate it into 'turbo square' or 'turbo circle', but would people understand what it is? A 'turbo roundabout' is probably dazzling enough


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## Suburbanist

What about _channelized-flow roundabout_?

Not, seriously, if a roundabout has flow separation and up to 5 lanes, it is past time to build a partially-grade-separated intersection. However, the Dutch seem to be very, very conservative in terms of building grade-separate junctions in built-up areas involving just regular roads, to the point relatively minor projects like that viaduct in Utrecht are major news.


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## da_scotty

[atomic] said:


> is that underpass for Bicycles?


I think the smaller tube (left side) is for bikes. The right side will be local-farm-traffic.


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## snowdog

I still don't really understand what the advantage is over a regular intersection with traffic lights ?

Takes much less space, and doesn't ruin your travel speed ( and thus fuel economy and valuable time) as much as a massive turbo roundabout like this.
Also there is no conflict with the opposite ends runing left, it allows a more flexible or ''traffic dependant'' traffic light setting that is more efficient. 

If you have traffic lights, it defeats the point of a roundabout in the first place .


I also don't understand what the problem is with grade separation, it'll take much less space and with the ground prices in South-Holland I doubt it'd be much more expensive, while providing a far superior capacity and speed.

If that's to expensive, a simply high capacity traffic light setup with free right turns would be much better. Both in terms of time loss and space use.


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## da_scotty

^^ 
Simple


* there is no prevailing traffic flow, so traffic is busy from all directions, this means a simple grade separation won't work. 
* free right turns work fine with car traffic, this is a high-truck-area (both going to the ferry and the agricultural sector). Resulting in a lot of back up.
* a simple traffic light setup won't work, this area is way to busy for a simple set-up with traffic lights. This roundabout setup is very very high capacity compared to normal roundabouts and junctions.


_Chris knows the exact reasons but this is about as ideal as it gets for this region, unless you want a fully separated stack._


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## snowdog

da_scotty said:


> * free right turns work fine with car traffic, this is a high-truck-area (both going to the ferry and the agricultural sector). Resulting in a lot of back up.


Longer merge lanes, it's not hard, if trucks can accelerate long enough before merging there will be no problem.

Hell, this behemoth takes so much space, you can use very wide right turn curves, so they don't take so much speed out in the first place.


> * a simple traffic light setup won't work, this area is way to busy for a simple set-up with traffic lights. This roundabout setup is very very high capacity compared to normal roundabouts and junctions.


How is such a massive roundabout in any way more efficient than a wide ''normal'' intersection ( say 3 lanes for each direction, so 9 in total for each branch) ? 

This roundabout creates extra conflict, you can't simultaneously let one branch turn left, and the opposite too at the same time.



> _Chris knows the exact reasons but this is about as ideal as it gets for this region, unless you want a fully separated stack._


A setup like this:
http://goo.gl/maps/dskE0 ( but then 3 lanes for ''going straight'' instead of two, like on the turbo roudnabout)
Should be at least as efficient. It removes the conflict for left turns with left turn of the opposite direction, and thus allows more flexible light timings.


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## Kanadzie

Yeah i don't think right-turn wyes are an issue for trucks
but generally they don't help much unless there is a lot of right turns (normally, people drive straight on the main road)

Anyway you need turboplein because it is super Dutch 
And traffic lights generally suck


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## ChrisZwolle

*Buitenring Parkstad Limburg*

The Council of State has dismissed the appeals against the construction of the 'Buitenring Parkstad Limburg', or 'Park City Limburg Outer Ring Road'. The project is a 24 kilometer four-lane controlled-access highway that will improve traffic in this quarter million people metropolitan area. 

The road structure in this area has a very poor hierarchy, with very diffuse traffic flows due to the multiple cities. The current road network consists mainly of streets instead of major roads and provincial highways. Only the provincial road N299 is of higher standard, and the outer ring road will incorporate a significant stretch of the existing N299. 

It is one of the largest provincial road projects in the Netherlands. It is already partially under construction. The project cost is € 441 million.










This is the northern part near Amstenrade, which was already approved earlier.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Buitenring Parkstad Limburg*

Some maps of the outer ring road project of Park City Limburg.

1. The Nuth interchange with A76.









2. Around Brunssum.









3. Between Brunssum and Landgraaf.









4. Around Landgraaf to N281


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## Batavier

Is the road fully grade separated and completely 2x2?


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## ChrisZwolle

Yes, it is fully grade-separated except for the interchanges at either end of the road. Full-standard interchanges with A76 and N281 would've been very expensive due to their complexity and probably would have a poor cost-benefit ratio.

The projected traffic volumes are between 21,000 and 35,000 vehicles per day in 2025. They recommend four lanes if traffic volumes exceed 23,000 vehicles per day, and only one link of the route would be slightly below that. They wanted a full four-lane expressway for consistency's sake.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A10, Amsterdam*

The design EIS for the 'Zuidasdok' megaproject has been released today.

The plan is to construct a local-express system along A10 between De Nieuwe Meer Interchange (A4) and Amstel Interchange (A2), and to put the motorway underground at the Zuidas office park. This will allow the Amsterdam-Zuid railway station to expand capacity (above ground).

The A10 will feature 12 lanes instead of the current 6 + shoulder lanes. There will be two separate tunnels of 1000 and 1100 meters in length. 

Two bridges will be replaced by wider structures. These bridges each contain several parallel spans.

* Schinkel Bridge goes from 10 to 14 lanes
* Rozenoord Bridge goes from 10 to 17 lanes

The Amstel Motorway Interchange and De Nieuwe Meer Motorway interchanges will be modified to allow access to both the express lanes and local lanes from all directions. 

The projected traffic volume is close to 300,000 vehicles per day in 2030. The project will start in 2017. The budget is € 1.4 billion or € 280 million per kilometer.

Current motorway + railroad corridor:


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## snowdog

julesstoop said:


> Bike.
> You don't need to use a car just for Alexander-Hillegersberg.


You definitely do, by car that bit takes 7-8 minutes after 10 pm ( like it should during daytime let alone rush hour, but doesn't because of capacity problems).

By bike it's 15 minutes. Which is far to long for such a short distance. Add the extra time it takes to get the bike out of the shed, going around your garden, locking it at destination in the bike parking, and walking to the entrance and you have 5 mins extra travel time which you don't getin the car.
Moped is far better in that case, 10-15 mins even in rush hour :cheers:.

Anything under 20 or about 25 km/h average should be unacceptable in city traffic ( 30+ km/h avg. should be a guideline, even in cities), anything under 90 km/h average should be unacceptable outside of built up areas imho.


Humans waste FAR to much time commuting, travelling, waiting, etc... What a huge waste of time better used for other things in life!



> With "Pretty good" I was meaning the route with the exception of the section you're talking about. I agree, the route from Terbrechtseweg is slow going most of the time.


Kind of agree with the rest of the route, it's pretty decent even in rush hour ( I have many motorcycle lessons in that area these days, and even near 5pm it's usually free flowing).


Getting more on-topic, I REALLY REALLY hope the local corridor will be less busy with the new A16-A13 link with the new exit at Hillegersberg. And hope that they build it asap, before I flee the area and move elsewhere hehe .


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## ChrisZwolle

*speed limits*

The speed limit will be raised to 130 km/h on the following stretches;

* A9 Beverwijk - Akersloot (both directions)
* A12 Reeuwijk - De Meern (both directions, including permanent opening of left shoulder lane)


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## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> The speed limit will be raised to 130 km/h on the following stretches;
> 
> * A9 Beverwijk - Akersloot (both directions)
> * A12 Reeuwijk - De Meern (both directions, including permanent opening of left shoulder lane)


What is the legal form of converting a shoulder running into a permanent lane?


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## aswnl

^^
It's not a left shoulder. It's a "plus-lane", a narrowed left lane. With enough space in the median to create a normal lane.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A4/A20 Kethelplein interchange*

Nice aerial drone (?) photos of the Kethelplein motorway interchange near Rotterdam.



gba_child said:


> Gemaak op 4 April.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> Video
> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+ChristiaanHofman/posts/HxMhj9aEnwS?pid=6136231697501948114&oid=110103508249699105749


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## Wilhem275

KIWIKAAS said:


> ^^ one of the most common mistakes you see with the subtitles here too. Happens all the time.


That was a big delusion when I got to NL. "Oh no, they mess up numbers like in German" :nuts: 



aswnl said:


> No need for a dull ride at only 100 km/h (62 mph) enforced by section control.


Why is the A2 limit so low? I rode it on a bus and it was an incredibly confused drive, because traffic was somehow slightly slower than the bus...


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## ChrisZwolle

*A2, Utrecht*

A2 Utrecht, before and after.


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## Slagathor

I have a question about the point just outside Gouda where the A12 and the A20 come together.

This came up a while ago when the A13 was closed for some reason. We were trying to go from The Hague to Dordrecht so someone suggested we take the A12 to Gouda and then the A20 to Rotterdam. Which is kinda what NS makes you do when the trains between TH and R'dam are out. 

When we were on our way, we realized there's not actually a flyover that lets you do this. So you have to exit the motorway A12 and then drive about for a bit on local roads until you find an entrance onto the A20 going South.

Now, obviously, this doesn't come up much. Nobody would go from The Hague to Rotterdam via Gouda by choice. But I was left wondering if a simple flyover in that location could relieve traffic flows in the area between Eastern The Hague, Zoetermeer and parts of Rotterdam. Is the traffic load on the N209 and the N470/471 heavy enough to warrant such a flyover? Could it potentially even remove _some_ traffic from the A13?


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## Suburbanist

Slagathor said:


> I have a question about the point just outside Gouda where the A12 and the A20 come together.
> 
> This came up a while ago when the A13 was closed for some reason. We were trying to go from The Hague to Dordrecht so someone suggested we take the A12 to Gouda and then the A20 to Rotterdam. Which is kinda what NS makes you do when the trains between TH and R'dam are out.
> 
> When we were on our way, we realized there's not actually a flyover that lets you do this. So you have to exit the motorway A12 and then drive about for a bit on local roads until you find an entrance onto the A20 going South.
> 
> Now, obviously, this doesn't come up much. Nobody would go from The Hague to Rotterdam via Gouda by choice. But I was left wondering if a simple flyover in that location could relieve traffic flows in the area between Eastern The Hague, Zoetermeer and parts of Rotterdam. Is the traffic load on the N209 and the N470/471 heavy enough to warrant such a flyover? Could it potentially even remove _some_ traffic from the A13?


I thought about that, but now we'll have A4 Delft - Schiedam, which will render the issue somehow moot. Traffic will be able to bypass the worst sectors of Rotterdam traffic altogether


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## ChrisZwolle

A network of local roads is planned to alleviate that problem, as well as local traffic near Gouda.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Oldtimers & taxes*

The government has scrapped the exemption of road tax for oldtimers less than 40 years old. This means that owning an oldtimer has become significantly more expensive, especially if it is powered by LPG or diesel. A typical 1500 kg oldtimer could cost over € 1.000 per year in road tax today. This specifically hurts people who drove an older car to evade the road tax.

This has led to a significantly decreased amount of oldtimers between 25 and 40 years old. Out of all oldtimers registered in 2005, only 68% remain today.

Although oldtimers tend to drive less than regular cars, they emit far more nitrogen and particles. An average gasoline powered oldtimer emits 80 times (!) more NOx than a modern gasoline car. An average diesel powered oldtimer emits between 40 and 100 times more PM10 than a modern diesel car. 

In other words, if a city has like 500 oldtimers registered, they emit as much as 40,000 modern cars.

Next step: mopeds (hopefully).


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## Wilhem275

ChrisZwolle said:


> This specifically hurts people who drove an older car to evade the road tax.


If this was the point, then there were far better solutions than hitting every historic vehicle around.
For example, placing a limit to yearly mileage (easily enforceable with the regular technical inspection), or requesting the car to be in a proper state of historic conservation in order to get the tax exemption, which means spending good money on it, which means it's no more convenient to own one just for the sake of low taxes.

The whole point of this exemption should be helping private owners in mantaining in good and original conditions objects which represents a common historical memory. Just the same concept of subsidizing a museum. 

But it's pretty clear that a government which sees this


ChrisZwolle said:


> Out of all oldtimers registered in 2005, only 68% remain today.


as a success and not as a problem, doesn't have any feeling in that direction.

Ok, the country might not have a rich history of automotive industries... but I had the feeling that the general public has an interest in historical conservation.


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Under the previous regulation, a car built in 1990 would become exempt of road tax this year. I don't think that's a real classic car. 

Oldtimers built before 1975 are still exempt of road tax. 

The new regulation is primarily targeting diesel and LPG oldtimers built between 1975 and 1990. The road tax on gasoline oldtimers after 1975 is not as unaffordable (probably around € 20 - 40 per month, depending on weight).


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## Wilhem275

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ Under the previous regulation, a car built in 1990 would become exempt of road tax this year. I don't think that's a real classic car.


This is true _now_, but the poor thing will never have a chance to become a classic if it gets scrapped before reaching 40 
The eternal debate about when an object stops being old and begins to be history... 

The tax exemption is particularly useful in that mid-range (25-40) to trace a line between those cars which are being kept for conservation and those which will be regularly used until they fail. After 40, regular use will be extremely limited anyway.
It is specifically targeted on not-rich people in order to help keeping also mainstream models and versions which will actually be more representative of their time (while "professional" collectors are more interested in high-range and exotic models).
Otherwise, we would end up in 30 years with the view of a time in which any Golf on the road was a GTI...

This doesn't come for free: there must be a specific control on the original conditions being kept; which, for example, would automatically exclude any LPG system applied to the car in recent times (while a diesel may be stinky, but still it's stinky history ).
Without this form of control the exemption is of course open to a lot of abuse.

So the point for the goverment should be: helping the conservation of youngtimers too, but requesting owners to mantain the original conditions.


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## Slagathor

Pretty sure the point of the government consisted simply of _more moneys_.


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## Suburbanist

I'm curious now... can you keep a car on your garage here in Netherlands without paying taxes/insurance if it remains idle and is never driven on any public road?


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## Wilhem275

I don't know the answer specifically for NL, I just want to clarify one point: to keep a car "healthy" (especially an old car) you need to move it regularly. Not for a long time or distance, but it needs to be moved on the road, let's say at least once every month.

The longer it stays stuck, the higher the bill when it will be moved again...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, you can suspend the license plate in the Netherlands for one year at the time. That way you don't have to pay insurance, road tax and it doesn't need to go to the annual inspection.

https://www.rdw.nl/Particulier/Paginas/Voertuig-tijdelijk-niet-gebruiken;-schorsen-online.aspx


----------



## verreme

ChrisZwolle said:


> The government has scrapped the exemption of road tax for oldtimers less than 40 years old. This means that owning an oldtimer has become significantly more expensive, especially if it is powered by LPG or diesel. A typical 1500 kg oldtimer could cost over € 1.000 per year in road tax today. This specifically hurts people who drove an older car to evade the road tax.
> 
> This has led to a significantly decreased amount of oldtimers between 25 and 40 years old. Out of all oldtimers registered in 2005, only 68% remain today.
> 
> Although oldtimers tend to drive less than regular cars, they emit far more nitrogen and particles. An average gasoline powered oldtimer emits 80 times (!) more NOx than a modern gasoline car. An average diesel powered oldtimer emits between 40 and 100 times more PM10 than a modern diesel car.
> 
> In other words, if a city has like 500 oldtimers registered, they emit as much as 40,000 modern cars.
> 
> Next step: mopeds (hopefully).


What a way to ignore a country's cultural heritage. Sure, new, soulless mass-produced cars are cleaner. And in the near future, automated driving will be safer. And we'll become a bunch of morons with no personality or conciousness whatsoever.

Way to go Netherlands hno:


----------



## aswnl

^^
Cars have no soul. 

A hobby costs money. If you can afford an oldtimer, you also can pay your car-tax. Especially old cars, because of their enormous pollution. If you don't want to pay, sell that oldtimer and start collecting stamps...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This creates a more level playing field with regular cars, especially those which run on diesel and LPG, where normal users have to pay hefty road tax, but someone driving a 25 year old smoker could drive tax free. That's simply unfair to people who buy clean cars, and promoting environmentally unsound behavior.

There is nothing 'cultural heritage' about a 1980s beater. 

The tax free status for 25 year old cars was originally introduced to preserve older cars but it evolved into a large-scale tax evasion. The Netherlands was a net importer of 1980s cars for quite some time. 

Note that 40+ year old cars are still exempt from road tax, and that gasoline powered cars between 25 and 40 years old only pay € 120 per year until it is phased out by 2028. It mainly targets diesel and LPG cars.


----------



## verreme

aswnl said:


> ^^
> Cars have no soul.
> 
> A hobby costs money. If you can afford an oldtimer, you also can pay your car-tax. Especially old cars, because of their enormous pollution. If you don't want to pay, sell that oldtimer and start collecting stamps...


Archaeology is not a hobby, it's good for the community. Same as running a museum. Keeping a piece of history alive is good for everyone. Well-preserved old cars are not just "toys", their part of a country's cultural heritage. Treating them just like every other car is neglecting this legacy.



ChrisZwolle said:


> This creates a more level playing field with regular cars, especially those which run on diesel and LPG, where normal users have to pay hefty road tax, but someone driving a 25 year old smoker could drive tax free. That's simply unfair to people who buy clean cars, and promoting environmentally unsound behavior.
> 
> There is nothing 'cultural heritage' about a 1980s beater.
> 
> The tax free status for 25 year old cars was originally introduced to preserve older cars but it evolved into a large-scale tax evasion. The Netherlands was a net importer of 1980s cars for quite some time.
> 
> Note that 40+ year old cars are still exempt from road tax, and that gasoline powered cars between 25 and 40 years old only pay € 120 per year until it is phased out by 2028. It mainly targets diesel and LPG cars.


I appreciate the fact that oldtimers are still exempt from road tax, but not all youngtimers are "1980s beaters". Many of them are as culturally significant as their 1960s counterparts.


----------



## Slagathor

verreme said:


> What a way to ignore a country's *cultural heritage*.


Really?


----------



## verreme

^^ Come on, you picked the worst example you could.


----------



## Wilhem275

Hey, one day someone may say "Awwww, my grandma's car" :lol:


----------



## Suburbanist

If the taxes are justified on environmental basis, there is no justification letting cars that polute 400x more than modern ones in certain output measures off the hook. Vintage or not vintage.

It is also very expensive to maintain WW2 airplanes on airbone condition...


----------



## Turf

Depends on how high the tax is actualy. How much is NL tax? How much is tax in S?


----------



## Slagathor

verreme said:


> ^^ Come on, you picked the worst example you could.


It's actually a legitimate point, given that cars older than 40 years old continue to be exempt from the tax.

2015 - 40 = 1975. 

Which means cars built before 1975 continue to be exempt from the tax and cars built between 1975 and 1980 will reach tax-exempt status within the next 5 years.

I really think your cultural heritage argument doesn't fly on this occasion.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N421, Houten*

The new provincial road N421 was inaugurated today. It will open to traffic tomorrow. It links the city of Houten with A12 (to and from Utrecht only). It was a long-discussed project, initiated in the 1990s when Houten started to grow significantly. 

North = right









A12 interchange


----------



## Suburbanist

why have they built it without access on the other direction? It is not as if Houten dwellers never had a reason to travel to Arnhem...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are plans for a connector from Houten to Arnhem, but a connector from Arnhem to Houten would be practically impossible to construct at that location, as they also build the N411 bypass of Bunnik right along side A12. There is no room for an offramp there. They could construct a frontage road along the southern side and connect the Bunnik exit to the new N421, but that would downgrade the free-flow of traffic from N421 to Utrecht.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N421 Houten-Oost*

The new N421 between A12 and Houten on video.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12, Bunnik*

Motorway traffic management in action on A12.


A12 Bunnik by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A6, Almere*

Progress at the bridge expansion project of A6 just south of Almere. There were originally plans for a 'signature bridge' but there was no funding for it.


DSC_0094.jpg by jeroenvanlieshout, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*

A4 is getting paved :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A new underpass at S100 Neherkade opened to traffic yesterday in The Hague.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

^^
That went fast. 
Feels like they only started contruction not even a year ago.


----------



## Wilhem275

Awwww :heart:

Sorry, that red tower gave me a bit of nostalgia


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N261, Waalwijk*

8 March:









23 April:


----------



## sirfreelancealot

Slagathor said:


> It's actually a legitimate point, given that cars older than 40 years old continue to be exempt from the tax.
> 
> 2015 - 40 = 1975.
> 
> Which means cars built before 1975 continue to be exempt from the tax and cars built between 1975 and 1980 will reach tax-exempt status within the next 5 years.
> 
> I really think your cultural heritage argument doesn't fly on this occasion.


Ok, my turn to bite.

How fair is this if you own a classic car and, say, do 2,000 miles per year, compared to say 20,000 miles in an econobox? If it is true that peoplke are buying proper knackered bangers (as opposed to classics) as a 'workaround' to a tax then there's something about the tax that doesn't work because of its unintended consequences. At the end of the day, there are only so many cars that old to survive and those that have become bangers will not be on the road long of they really are in such a state. Eventually the fleet will have its slow turnaround.

On the other hand, if someone is using an old classic than a new one as a regular daily driver does that not save a heck of a lot in resources that would otherwise be needed to build a new car - the embedded energy. That is something that makes so called scrappage schemes a massive own goal for wider environental, not just local reasons. 

Forcing people to scrap old cars that are in perfect running order to me is simply a waste and runs completely against the principles of sustainability that encourage reuse before recycling and finally landfill. Thats a lot of energy saved making the steel, plastics, forging the components, mining precious rare earth materials (for those eco electric vehicles) and so on.

I may be biased and you'd be right as I have an 1999 VW Passat, that I have got to 215,000 miles in so far. It may not be the cleanest, newest vehicle but it has a catalytic converter, runs on unleaded and passes its test emissions just fine. I'd rather run it into the ground and lose nothing in depreciation. Tax wise I'm paying quite a bit but it's beats paying the same in monthly payments on something that is powered by a wound up elastic band.

Apologies for the rant but I do think that this sort of thing needs to be figured in the wider perspective.


----------



## snowdog

It's all just politics, it sounds eco friendly, but I highly doubt scrapping one of my older cars will be so much better if I buy a new econo crapbox. Better yet, my car is wanted for the export to Africa, where it will probably live on for many more years.

We have 3 cars, one of which is a 1993 Toyota Corolla 1.6 Gli, I don't see how buying a new Aygo or something similar has any point, this Rolla is more comfy, roomy, powerful ( 114 bhp, much better than the average econo crapbox, and it just burns about 6.5l/100 km on the motorway and 10l/100km in city), faster ( it still reaches 190 km/h, so it can't have lost many ponies since 1993, while in an Aygo I was struggling to reach just 150 km/h), has more stuff ( leccy windows, mirrors, power steering, etc...), and is unbreakable. Only disadvantage is the jap interior and the boring/grandpa look, but meh, means I never get the attention of any cops in it.

Our last one ( same year) went away to Congo for 1500 euro's, with 450.000 km's driven. This ones just at 350k, in my eyes it's just been driven in. It never breaks and aside from some new oil, filters, tyres, brake pads, it never needs anything.

While I hear about 4 year old Citroens C1 with leaking doors, broken clutches at just 40k km ( and city driving isn't an excuse, I use the Rolla as a city car for years now, and sometimes drive as a hooligan)...

You waste far more cash on depreciation on new cars than you save on fuel. Not to mention crappy electronics on modern cars, while old cars are a breeze to work on ( provided you don't have too many rusty bolts ). No need to fork out on garage costs but just buy the parts, spend an hour or two maintenance every half year or so, and it will keep running forever.

For long trips we have 2 LPG cars from the early 2000's. I find it a shame the rolla won't be an old timer exempt from tax in 3 years, but we will keep it running nonetheless, as it's still a far better car than most of the city cars they spit out these days.


Same thing with the modern 4 stroke scooters, they're completely rubbish quality wise compared to the oil burning old ones. My mum rides an old '97 two stroke scooter, and it literally never breaks, it's ridden more than 50.000km now since my mum had it, and she's bought it 9 years ago. While I hear people with 2006 or 2007 scooters with just 10.000 km ridden having problems or being scrapped.

How is producing 5 new rubbish Chinese quality scooters instead of just riding 1 older one more eco friendly ? You just move the ''problem'' to the places where they are produced and the raw materials are mined and all the extra transportation.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15, Rotterdam*

Ballast Nedam, one of the largest construction and engineering firms in the Netherlands, appears to be on the edge of bankruptcy. The biggest problem for them is the A15 widening project in Rotterdam, which apparently is costing more than expected. This a DBFM contract with a 25 year concession to widen, operate and maintain the motorway, based on an availability payment. The project value is € 1.5 billion. 

Ballast Nedam is a partner in the A-Lanes A15 consortium, which consists of Ballast Nedam, John Laing, Strabag and Strukton. They all have a fairly equal share in the consortium (24+28+24+24% respectively). The project however, is mainly on schedule and is nearing completion.


----------



## Surel

snowdog said:


> How is producing 5 new rubbish Chinese quality scooters instead of just riding 1 older one more eco friendly ? You just move the ''problem'' to the places where they are produced and the raw materials are mined and all the extra transportation.


This is unfortunately very truth for so many things.


----------



## Suburbanist

Even if the reasoning of using older cars leading to less materials hold, it doesn't change a yota about tailpipe emissions. There is no scientific way around it: cars manufactured before 2002 or so pollute much more, and cars from the 1980s outrageously more, than new ones. For come exhaust compounds, they pollute 200, 300 times more, and the pollution stays in places where the car ran.

You can't solve the problem or air pollution at point of use with older cars. This is why electric cars are so attractive, they eliminate tailpipe emissions and cut down noise at lower speeds (when engine noise still dominates air displacement noise) by more than 70%.


----------



## sotonsteve

To look at tailpipe emissions in isolation is a dangerous thing. Scrapping a vehicle which still has lots of life left in it is far more environmentally damaging, as you are essentially scrapping valuable natural resources which have not been utilised to their full potential. Recycling of the materials in a scrapped vehicle will only utilise a proportion of the natural resources, as there is always landfill from scrapping a car. Furthermore, building a new car uses its own natural resources and generates its own pollution. It is unsustainable to replace something like a car just because a newer model is more "green". Sustainability is about maximising its working life first, and then replacing it when it is life expired.

On another note, the EU method of measuring fuel consumption and carbon dioxide emissions is flawed. In the past 10 years or so, fuel consumption and carbon dioxide figures for cars on sale have become progressively less accurate, to the extent that some cars on sale burn twice as much fuel as they are supposed to, and carbon dioxide figures are based on fuel consumption figures. This is because the EU method of testing is flawed, as it is done in a laboratory rather than out on a road. Old cars have much more realistic fuel economy figures.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions are not harmful to the local environment. While they are a greenhouse gas, they do not degrade local air quality, like nitrogen dioxide and particles do. So for local health and enviroment standards, it's better to switch to cleaner vehicles. Especially because the tailpipe emission of those pollutants is so much greater even for a 15 or 20 year old car.


----------



## Suburbanist

sotonsteve said:


> To look at tailpipe emissions in isolation is a dangerous thing. Scrapping a vehicle which still has lots of life left in it is far more environmentally damaging, as you are essentially scrapping valuable natural resources which have not been utilised to their full potential. Recycling of the materials in a scrapped vehicle will only utilise a proportion of the natural resources, as there is always landfill from scrapping a car. Furthermore, building a new car uses its own natural resources and generates its own pollution. It is unsustainable to replace something like a car just because a newer model is more "green". Sustainability is about maximising its working life first, and then replacing it when it is life expired.



I'm thinking about air quality at a local level. It is an undeniable fact air quality in European cities got better, but is still not reasonably clean, and point-of-use emissions from road vehicles are a huge contributor to that. I agree with the rest of your argument, but car factories, mines, rubber processing plants can all be tucked away from cities whereas cars are used in close proximity to places where 90% or more of the population lives.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Plans were floated in the late 1960s to turn the island of Voorne-Putten into a huge industrial area for the Port of Rotterdam expansion. They also envisioned a large city called 'Grevelingenstad' south of it. Note that this plan was envisioned in a time when it was thought the Netherlands would grow to 20 or 30 million inhabitants.

Here's a map.


----------



## Slagathor

Wow what a nightmare.


----------



## Suburbanist

I like the map and the plan, Zeeland is underpopulated.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Both Voorne-Putten and Goeree-Overflakkee (who came up with these names?) belong to South Holland. A common mistake though. Zeeland is south of these islands.


----------



## verfmeer

^^ Indeed, I once talked to someone living in Oude Tonge. When I asked if she was from Zeeland I got a very angre face. :lol:


----------



## aswnl

ChrisZwolle said:


> Both Voorne-Putten and Goeree-Overflakkee (who came up with these names?)


Our ancestors had given names to the islands of Voorne, Putten, Westvoorne (Goedereede) and Overflakkee (Zuidvoorne).
Flakkee was once the name of the lower course of the Haringvliet. The Flakkee water channel was created in the 13th century during heavy storm tides, which devided the old (bigger) island of Voorne.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N46 Groningen*

The N46 is part of the Groningen Ring Road. Over the past couple of years, this segment of the ring road has been turned into a free-flow expressway. Completion is planned for this year.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*traffic safety*

The official traffic fatality count for 2014 is 570, the same as 2013.










As you can see the number of fatalities has decreased the most among passenger car occupants, as well as a fairly significant decrease among pedestrians. Bicycle fatalities have been reduced less.

In previous decades, the 18-25 age group always had the largest share of fatalities. However, this has changed significantly, with the 70+ age group now accounting for 40% of traffic fatalities, while they comprise 12% of the population. 

The amount of fatalities among the 20-29 age group dropped from 256 in 2000 to 83 in 2014. The amount of fatalities among children aged 0 - 15 has dropped from 59 to 19 during that period. The amount of fatalities decreased among all age groups, except 80+. 

Most fatalities occur in North Brabant province, with 100 fatalities in 2014. The lowest amount of fatalities were in Flevoland province, with 9 fatalities.


----------



## snowdog

So relatively, mopeds and motorcycles are most likely to die, followed by bicycles ?

I'm a bit divided on what to do about the old people problem. On one side, I disagree with forbidding them to drive just because of age and taking away their mobility, on the other side, grey haired are the most annoying drivers of all imho, and I think people that lack a certain physical responsiveness and fitness should not be driving cars...

The 2014 number certainly show that there is no justification for the massive enforcement on speed for cars, at least on motorways, seeing as nearly a same amount of cyclists die in traffic ( who aren't anywhere near motorways). It's just another proof that speed traps on the motorways are clearly just for financial and political correctness reasons ( noise/air pollution) rather than safety.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Drachtsterweg, Leeuwarden*

New aerial photos of the Drachtsterweg project in Leeuwarden. They are constructing an aquaduct.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another bridge named after a Canadian liberator. The Dutch are mighty proud of their (mostly Canadian) liberators. This is a local bridge at N760 west of Genemuiden.


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> New aerial photos of the Drachtsterweg project in Leeuwarden. They are constructing an aquaduct.


There is a remarkable amount of expensive road construction going on in the Province of Friesland. How are these financed? Because nationwide there are a lot more routes which need such investments much more than what we see happening here. Are the Provinces financing this? (maybe out of the sale of NUON to Vattenfall?).


----------



## Suburbanist

EPA001 said:


> There is a remarkable amount of expensive road construction going on in the Province of Friesland. How are these financed? Because nationwide there are a lot more routes which need such investments much more than what we see happening here. Are the Provinces financing this? (maybe out of the sale of NUON to Vattenfall?).


Didn't they get some money to invest in infrastructure after the Zuiderzeelijn rail project was cancelled?


----------



## keokiracer

EPA001 said:


> There is a remarkable amount of expensive road construction going on in the Province of Friesland. How are these financed? Because nationwide there are a lot more routes which need such investments much more than what we see happening here. Are the Provinces financing this? (maybe out of the sale of NUON to Vattenfall?).


Problems in Friesland, Drenthe and Groningen aren't at all as important as the projects in say the Randstad (with possibly the exception of the N7 around the city of Groningen) but from what I've understood provinces get an as equal share as possible of the national funding which is complete BS. 

(I read this in a post of at least 5 years old so things might have changed since)


----------



## maral

EPA001 said:


> There is a remarkable amount of expensive road construction going on in the Province of Friesland. How are these financed? Because nationwide there are a lot more routes which need such investments much more than what we see happening here. Are the Provinces financing this? (maybe out of the sale of NUON to Vattenfall?).


A lot of road/rail/infra works in Friesland and Groningen wich are going on now and the near future are indeed financed (at least partially) with the RSP-funds.

Indeed the compensation for



> the Zuiderzeelijn rail project


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Most of these projects are indeed funded through the RSP scheme which was established when the Zuiderzee Line was cancelled. 

Provincial road projects are funded through a portion of the road tax (which is why the road tax varies a bit by province). 

There are not as many road projects funded through the national government in northern Netherlands. And if they are, a significant share is paid for with local and regional funds. For instance, the new Joure motorway interchange is paid for nearly entirely with regional funding.

National projects are prioritized by the NMCA = National Market- and Capacity Analysis. If a bottleneck doesn't show up in the Global Economy or Regional Community scenarios of the NMCA, it likely doesn't get any priority (which is why A15 between Papendrecht and Gorinchem has such a low priority, it isn't recognized by the NMCA as a bottleneck despite frequent congestion).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The city of Utrecht has established an environmental zone in the city center, and started fining diesel cars built before 1/1/2001 today. The fine for driving in this zone is € 90.

They installed these totem pole signs


----------



## EPA001

@Suburbanist, keokiracer, maral and ChrisZwolle: thanks for your replies. 



ChrisZwolle said:


> National projects are prioritized by the NMCA = National Market- and Capacity Analysis. If a bottleneck doesn't show up in the Global Economy or Regional Community scenarios of the NMCA, it likely doesn't get any priority (which is why A15 between Papendrecht and Gorinchem has such a low priority, it isn't recognized by the NMCA as a bottleneck despite frequent congestion).


How does this NMCA work? :dunno:

A traffic jam is a traffic jam to me. And especially if one is very frequently recorded (every working day for quite some hours in both directions) on one of the main transport axes in the country it should be noted and taken care of. Just as the traffic situation on the A20 Rotterdam-Gouda.

Why are roads with less or no problems already being widened where other roads where the loss of time per traffic jam can easily exceed 25-30 minutes per direction (and that in the morning and the evening) on some main roads from and to the Rotterdam Metropolitan Area (THE distribution hub of Western Europe) have to wait for at least another 15 years before anything is about to be improved there. Which will result in a waiting time of 25 years from now before the situation is actually resolved where there are many areas with no or hardly any problems which are already being widened? :bash:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

EPA001 said:


> How does this NMCA work? :dunno:


It's basically a national traffic model that works with two scenarios; Regional Communities (RC), a slow growth scenario, and a Global Economy (GE) a strong economy scenario.

Many projects currently planned are already existing bottlenecks and will continue to be one in the RC scenario. However, when identifying the potential need of capacity, they also take the GE scenario into account, as they don't want to spend a lot of money on a project that may prove to be underdesigned. But in the end the available budget is an important factor.

I don't quite understand why A15 Papendrecht - Gorinchem is not identified as a bottleneck, as it is already a proven congestion spot in current times. It has one of the highest traffic counts of any four-lane motorway in the Netherlands.


----------



## EPA001

Thanks again Chris. kay:



ChrisZwolle said:


> I don't quite understand why A15 Papendrecht - Gorinchem is not identified as a bottleneck, as it is already a proven congestion spot in current times. It has one of the highest traffic counts of any four-lane motorway in the Netherlands.


Luckily I am not the only one who is asking himself (or herself) this question. Especially since I have been a very frequent victim of the traffic situation here.....


----------



## Ni3lS

keokiracer said:


> but from what I've understood provinces get an as equal share as possible of the national funding which is complete BS.


It's only complete BS if people living in such provinces have to pay less in road and car associated taxes as well. 

I feel like this issue is lighted from just the randstad side (just like almost any issue in this country). the Netherlands is not just the randstad.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Funding is distributed according to needs. And it's obvious that those needs are much bigger in western / central Netherlands than mostly rural northern Netherlands. 

There's not that much to complain about though. Especially in Friesland pretty much every bottleneck has been solved in recent years or will be solved shortly. In Groningen a € 150 million per kilometer project is planned for the southern ring road.

The situation is much worse in Overijssel, the only place in the Netherlands where there's only a two-lane road between two major population centers (Zwolle region and Twente region) and a lack of passing lanes on other major roads (I'm looking at you, N36!)

Drenthe has almost no needs, with an adequate road network, especially since N33 was twinned. You could say N34 would be better off with more four-lane stretches as well, but as I understand Drenthe themself didn't want that to reduce the visual impact on the landscape.


----------



## Ni3lS

Obviously. I'm merely saying that if for example Groningen or Frisian citizens pay similar amounts in taxes, it's unfair if 80% of that goes to the West. Simple as that. It's not their responsibility that traffic is congested in the Randstad area, they chose to live somewhere else, just like Randstad citizens chose to live in the Randstad and have to deal with congestions as a result of their choice (or it was work related, whatever). Therefore the budget should be spent equally among provinces, according to the amount of money raised in that province in road taxes. So zuid holland should get the biggest cut, because it has the largest amount of driving citizens probably, but not an extensive amount out of another province's budget IMO.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Groningen and Friesland contain only 7% of the Dutch population, so it makes some sense they don't get 20% of funding. 

In fact, you'll see that rural areas such as Groningen and Friesland are actually benefitting from the redistribution of taxes with roads. The per capita spending is usually bigger than in more densely populated areas.


----------



## Ni3lS

Exactly my point. So if that means Groningen en Friesland only bring in 7% of the road taxes, they should get 7% of the budget.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ but then why pay to the state (NL) government, instead of just sending direct to the provincial one?


----------



## Suburbanist

All countries except city states have areas more and less densely populated. Denser areas and less dense areas have different requirements, nothing new about that.

Drenthe doesn't need expensive subways. But it provides gas and space for agriculture.

If we go down the "only keep tax you generate", Zeeland would never be able to pay for flood defenses alone, and the Randstad would be at risk since water knows no provincial border. Likewise, if roads there were simple regular rural roads, massive jams would form and Amsterdam and Rotterdam would be isolated. Obviously, without good roads on the "outer provinces" the Rotterdam port would suffer immensely and Hamburg and Antwerpen would have an upper hand.

So it is not that simple. Everyone benefits from a larger cohesive road network, including at the European level since economies are rather integrated.


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> The city of Utrecht has established an environmental zone in the city center, and started fining diesel cars built before 1/1/2001 today. The fine for driving in this zone is € 90.
> 
> They installed these totem pole signs


Is it automatic and 24/7? Does the camera read your registration, looks you up, and sends you a fine?


----------



## keokiracer

Surel said:


> Is it automatic and 24/7? Does the camera read your registration, looks you up, and sends you a fine?


Basically, yes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*

Some fresh photos of A4 today. :cheers:


A4 Delft - Schiedam by Mark van der Meer, on Flickr

Kethel Tunnel

A4 Ketheltunnel by Mark van der Meer, on Flickr


A4 Delft - Schiedam by Mark van der Meer, on Flickr


A4 Delft - Schiedam by Mark van der Meer, on Flickr


A4 Delft - Schiedam by Mark van der Meer, on Flickr


----------



## Des

Thanks! Is it wide enough for 2x4?


----------



## verfmeer

Des said:


> Thanks! Is it wide enough for 2x4?


Only 2+3 unfortunately :bash:


----------



## snowdog

2+3 initially, but space for 2x3 doesn't it ?

Should be enough, provided they build the A13/A16 link + the planned widening ( if I'm correct) the A13 from R'dam Airport to the A4 ( as part of the A13/A16 project if I recall correctly)...


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> The four-lane Sluiskil Tunnel near Terneuzen opened to traffic at midnight.
> 
> It replaced the two-lane Sluikil Bridge, that is opened for shipping / closed to traffic 23 times / 5 hours per day.
> 
> The tunnel is 1330 meters long and is located just south of the 6600 m long Westerschelde Tunnel. The next project is to widen N62 to a four-lane expressway to the Belgian border.


Interesting to see the bare tubings in a road tunnel.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ yeah  Hopefully there is never a fire!


----------



## eindhoven the best

A67 Someren -> Geldrop near Lierop. Photo made by me


----------



## Slagathor

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ yeah  Hopefully there is never a fire!


It's 200 yards long, I think we're gonna be fine.


----------



## ChasingCars

CNN (!) has an item on the construction of the A2 land tunnel in the city of Maastricht. The item is from january this year so not very recent. Nevertheless I thought it is worth sharing:

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/01/30/transformations-maastricht-a2-highway.cnn


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Zierikzee Blues*

Zierikzee has always been prominently located on the signage in southwestern Netherlands. With a population of only 10,000 and not being on a major junction of national roads, some feel it has been overrepresented. 

Zierikzee has been removed from the signs on A15 near Rotterdam because the A4 was completed to Bergen op Zoom, so this city is now a control city. However, there was apparently a significant (?) public outcry, enough for them to add Zierikzee to the signs again. 

The town is somewhat of a focal point, indicating more than just the city, but most of Zeeland province. 

Sign indicating Zierikzee over 100 kilometers away on A59. This is signed according to the depreciated 'remote focal point' concept, that the end point of the road is used as a control city. Poland does this as well. As A59 serves almost no cities of significance directly, west of 's-Hertogenbosch, Zierikzee was the only viable option.

IMG_7406 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N261, Waalwijk*

The ramps of the new N261 interchange at Waalwijk open to traffic tomorrow.


----------



## da_scotty

It's good to see that more and more "autowegen" being constructed. A "Gelbe AutoStrasse" network linking smaller cities or links is very usefull!


----------



## -Pino-

^^ It's not minor cities, but above sparsely populated regions that receive better access through the upgrade N-routes. But if your comment was driven by the opening of the N261 intersection, you should be aware that there was originally an actual motorway between Tilburg and Waalwijk.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Zierikzee has always been prominently located on the signage in southwestern Netherlands. With a population of only 10,000 and not being on a major junction of national roads, some feel it has been overrepresented.


Well, it's well larger than Van Horn and Gravellona Toce :cheers:


----------



## clippp

👍🏼


----------



## Ni3lS

Heerenveen, July 1997.










Unthinkable. No A32, the A7 being widened. I can't even remember that it was like this when I was a kid.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15, Rotterdam*

The westbound shoulder lane opened to traffic today on A15 from Spijkenisse to the Thomassen Tunnel near Rozenburg. It is part of the large A15 expansion project.

Because it was prohibitively expensive to widen the current A15 embankment through the port area, they decided to build a 'plus lane', a narrow lane on the left side. The speed limit is 80 km/h when the 'plus lane' is open to traffic. They wanted to preserve the regular right shoulder in case of emergencies (especially with all the chemical plants in the port). 

It is the first new 'plus lane' in 3 years. They are usually not considered anymore due to their cost being similar to a regular new lane. But this was an exception.

The new map:


----------



## EPA001

^^ The eastbound shoulder lane is planned to be opened in August his year. Also the much bigger New Botlek Bridge will open soon, but most likely also in two phases.


----------



## peezet

Chris. 

The A4 near Steenbergen is missing on the map.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You're right, it's an older map, I need to update it (A5 & A74 are missing as well).


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> You're right, it's an older map, I need to update it (A5 & A74 are missing as well).


You need to take A261 out as well


----------



## Slagathor

I found this in De Volkskrant a while ago about the small adaptation to the Prins Claus intersection outside The Hague. A tiny change eliminated the need for weaving and got rid of a daily rush hour traffic jam. It was named after the guy who spotted it.


----------



## Wilhem275

Tell us the guy's name, for the sake of history


----------



## keokiracer

^^ It's at the bottom. Henk Sijsling.


----------



## Wilhem275

That was my suspect too, but maybe that's just the name of who made the drawing for De Volkskrant :lol:


----------



## Des

Suburbanist said:


> There are dedicated turning lanes in all 4 corners. Traffic lights for right-turn lanes are always green when no other traffic is coming through.


Yes I get that but if they just made a little extra strip of tarmac right lane could also go when there would be traffic coming and merge.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*2015 traffic*

_Rijkswaterstaat_ released the first road report of 2015. It covers 1/1 to 30/4. 

* kilometers driven increased marginally at +0.1%
* traffic congestion increased 12.1%
* traffic congestion increase is mostly due to a shift in time (smaller but more intense rush hour) and snow
* traffic congestion increase is one third due to more accidents and incidents
* congestion growth was mainly in the first three months, there was little growth in April.
* no new capacity opened
* roadworks resulted in a 4.3% share of all congestion on motorways
* winter 2014/15 resulted in an average salt consumption (104,000 tons)
* 63 people were killed on the motorways in 2014, 5 more than in 2013.

Worst congestion spots:

1) A20 eastbound at Terbregseplein (Rotterdam)
2) A16 northbound at Terbregseplein (Rotterdam)
3) A1 eastbound at Bunschoten (Amersfoort)
4) A28 westbound at Rijnsweerd (Utrecht)
5) A13 southbound at Kleinpolderplein (Rotterdam)
6) A20 westbound at Rotterdam-Centrum
7) A1 westbound at Diemen (Amsterdam)
8) A20 eastbound at Nieuwerkerk (Rotterdam)
9) A27 southbound at Noordeloos
10) A4 northbound at Zoeterwoude-Dorp (Leiden)

Rotterdam dominates the top 10, especially the A20 motorway which is the worst congested motorway in the Netherlands with 3 top 10 locations. 

A27 at Noordeloos is the only true rural motorway congestion spot, it is relatively far from major cities by Dutch standards. 

A4 at Zoeterwoude was recently widened and jumped to #10 worst congested spot. This is due to poor design decisions (local-express with 1+2 lanes northbound). There was much less congestion _during construction_ when it temporarily had 3 lanes northbound.


----------



## Suburbanist

Des said:


> Yes I get that but if they just made a little extra strip of tarmac right lane could also go when there would be traffic coming and merge.


They do that on less busy roads, but if the road is busy enough, such arrangement might clog the lanes and disrupt the flow on the roundabout as merging slows downs the throughput - or it would require a lengthy merge lane.


----------



## snowdog

Suburbanist said:


> They do that on less busy roads, but if the road is busy enough, such arrangement might clog the lanes and disrupt the flow on the roundabout as merging slows downs the throughput - or it would require a lengthy merge lane.


Could you give more examples, I've seen perhaps two or three examples of where this is used in NL ( some renovated intersection around Deventer iirc. and the exit Lelystad), otherwise I've never seen this in NL ?

A turbo roundabout with traffic lights slows the ''throughput'' too due to lower speed/corners... Even more than a merge probably.

I've said it before, but I don't see much advantage over a classic intersection with the same amount of turn lanes, I can see it being better than a ''verkeersplein'' yes, but a classic intersection with 5-6 turning lanes theoretically has more flexibility for the traffic lights, as you can send 2 opposing directions turning left without conflict, unlike this solution which causes extra conflict. 

The thesis of the designer of these intersections, doesn't contain a proper comparison between this Turbo plein and an intersection like this for capacity:
https://goo.gl/maps/sKagG




> Rotterdam dominates the top 10, especially the A20 motorway which is the worst congested motorway in the Netherlands with 3 top 10 locations.


. I live in that area, and it's not just the motorway, all local roads are a chaos too the moment someone lets a fart on the motorway .


----------



## Kanadzie

Suburbanist said:


> They do that on less busy roads, but if the road is busy enough, such arrangement might clog the lanes and disrupt the flow on the roundabout as merging slows downs the throughput - or it would require a lengthy merge lane.


Is it possible? The right turn traffic would have the same YIELD as before, just into a roadway with less traffic (not all the turboplein traffic)


----------



## Suburbanist

Kanadzie said:


> Is it possible? The right turn traffic would have the same YIELD as before, just into a roadway with less traffic (not all the turboplein traffic)


The problem is not the incoming road being backed up, but the outgoing lanes slowing down as many cars try to merge (many drivers will slow down move over if there is a queue of cars slowly (but not stopped) trying to merge.

This happens in highways on congested sectors slip ramps, reason for which there are ramp meters - for instance. The reasoning here is the same.


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> A4 at Zoeterwoude was recently widened and jumped to #10 worst congested spot. This is due to poor design decisions (local-express with 1+2 lanes northbound). There was much less congestion _during construction_ when it temporarily had 3 lanes northbound.


So when are these poor design decisions revoked by adding at least one extra lane in the tunnels there? Since there is room for at least 2 x 5 lanes technically it is not a problem. I guess the paperwork is a much greater problem to get this done....


----------



## Koesj

Re: Hoevelaken's similarity to Rijnsweerd. The former is probably going to look a bit different than Chris' picture shows, with a second turbine connection added in the newer design instead of one of those two cloverleaf loops.

The latter is going to be wayyy different after the Ring Utrecht project's been done:


(click for larger)

_edit_


snowdog said:


> Potential bottleneck though eastwards, iirc it's 2x2 lane with shoulder running, so effectively 2x3.
> 
> I see at least 6 lanes going into the A1 though, 2 or 3 from westwards, 2 from southwards, 1 from northwards and 1 from the Exit Hoevelaken. Pushing 6 lanes of traffic into 3


The eastbound A1 is going to be upgraded to 2x4 up towards Barneveld in the Hoevelaken project. Here's the entire reference design, which has now been expended upon with some secondary goodies after today's contract signing: http://www.ikgaverder.nl/media/user...roject knooppunt Hoevelaken V2 30-04-2014.pdf


----------



## Bastiaan85

ChrisZwolle said:


> A4 at Zoeterwoude was recently widened and jumped to #10 worst congested spot. This is due to poor design decisions (local-express with 1+2 lanes northbound). There was much less congestion _during construction_ when it temporarily had 3 lanes northbound.





EPA001 said:


> So when are these poor design decisions revoked by adding at least one extra lane in the tunnels there? Since there is room for at least 2 x 5 lanes technically it is not a problem. I guess the paperwork is a much greater problem to get this done....


It was never a poor design decision, it was mandated by the environmentalist lobby that managed to get the original design declined at the Council of State (Raad van State), thereby delaying the works for several years.
The critique on the design is an example of nearsightedness, as the original road only had 2 (!) lanes in each direction and a bridge that was forced to stay closed after multiple malfunctions thereby hampering water traffic. Now there is a very wide aquaduct in place with very broad hard shoulders so that incidents are much less likely to create full congestions, and of course are easy to expand to more traffic lanes in the future with no extra foundation work. If that's not excellent design then I don't know what is. 
The amount of lanes is not a design choice, it's the result of what gets through the political establishment.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Nobody questions the use of the new aquaduct. But the local-express system is the culprit. It wasn't needed. It is inflexible to handle peak traffic. It is inflexible for road works. They either should have built a full standard local-express system (2+3+3+2) or just 2x4 lanes with a provision for 2x5 lanes. 

Note that the original A4 had 120,000 vehicles per day on just 2x2 lanes. 2x3 lanes is not a luxury with such counts, many countries widen motorways to eight lanes to handle such traffic volumes, plus future traffic.

The local-express system was already designed in the early 1990s, i.e. more than 20 years ago. They didn't change the design due to the project failing at the Council of State, this was the longstanding #1 bottleneck in the Netherlands, and they didn't want to risk any more delays by changing the design.

The minister says 'it will be monitored'. So I don't expect a short-term improvement.


----------



## aswnl

Bastiaan85 said:


> The critique on the design is an example of nearsightedness, as the original road only had 2 (!) lanes in each direction and a bridge that was forced to stay closed after multiple malfunctions thereby hampering water traffic. Now there is a very wide aquaduct in place with very broad hard shoulders so that incidents are much less likely to create full congestions, and of course are easy to expand to more traffic lanes in the future with no extra foundation work. If that's not excellent design then I don't know what is.
> The amount of lanes is not a design choice, it's the result of what gets through the political establishment.


That's too easy. Just like the A2 a new procedure could have been started in the meantime to make a 2x3 lane maincarriageways solution. But that hasn't been done. You can't design on a I/C of 0.9 or higher, and that has been done. If you do so, you can't speak of an excellent design, that's for sure. The situation even gets worse, because the widening of the A4 (as cause of the Rijnlandroute) makes the _local_ parallel carriageways 2 lanes, instead of making the express carriageways 3 lanes. That's not a very smart decision, to say the least.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A20, Moordrecht*

The recently relocated Moordrecht interchange along A20 between Rotterdam and Gouda. They built a new bridge across the railroad, that eliminated long waiting times at the level crossing and reduces congestion on the off ramp and eventually the motorway. Visible is a new road under construction that will like A12 and A20.


----------



## EPA001

^^ This new interchange works so much better then the old one. And as you state already part of a larger plan for new connecting roads in this area to relieve the pressure on the A12 en A20. Which for the A20 is only a small part of the investments needed to get rid of the heavy daily traffic jams there. Unfortunately there are still no funds allocated where in comparison around Amsterdam many hundreds of millions in Euros are spend on partially totally unnecessary infrastructure......


----------



## Suburbanist

EPA001 said:


> ^^ This new interchange works so much better then the old one. And as you state already part of a larger plan for new connecting roads in this area to relieve the pressure on the A12 en A20. Which for the A20 is only a small part of the investments needed to get rid of the heavy daily traffic jams there. Unfortunately there are still no funds allocated where in comparison *around Amsterdam many hundreds of millions in Euros are spend on partially totally unnecessary infrastructure*......


What new roads do you classify as "unnecessary"? :dunno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Probably the 'Zuidas' tunnel project (A10 south). Only politicians think it's needed.


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> Probably the 'Zuidas' tunnel project (A10 south). Only politicians think it's needed.


It will make sense when they bury the railway.


----------



## EPA001

^^ Which they won't do, so it does not make sense. And that part is not traffic congested like many other roads or interchanges elsewhere are.


----------



## ChasingCars

EPA001 said:


> ^^ Which they won't do, so it does not make sense. And that part is not traffic congested like many other roads or interchanges elsewhere are.



Not congested anymore, since the road was widened to 5 lanes...


----------



## EPA001

^^ Precisely the reason why this spending of so much money at this location is rather pointless compared to sections on the Dutch main motorways where there is heavy traffic congestion and for which no money seems to be available to resolve the congestion.


----------



## snowdog

Prestige projects instead of fixing the worst congestion.

NIMBY's, progressive elitists, and eco morons have had far to much effect on decisions.

The A2 Landtunnel near Utrecht ( the old motorway didn't split anything, there is a canal running parallel which splits that part of the city off, not to mention the problems with the tunnel, what a major failure), the sunken A4 near Leiden, the sunken & tunneled A4 at Midden Delfsland ( what a major waste of cash, should have built it at ground level like planned and used the spare cash to fix/upgrade local connections in the area), the A2 Tunnel in Maastricht perhaps.

All examples of reckless throwing money away, they could have fixed MUCH more roads and congestion if normal widening and construction solutions were chosen.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12/50 Knooppunt Grijsoord*

Last weekend they added a lane in the Grijsoord motorway interchange near Arnhem (A12/50). The new lane follows A50 north to A12 west. It is part of the A12 widening project between Ede and the Grijsoord interchange.



















'Grijsoord' is one of the most obscure motorway interchange names in the Netherlands. Most interchanges are named after a nearby village or town (rarely a large city), but Grijsoord was a vacation park for sick children in the early 20th century. 

Construction on A12 started in 1942 under German occupation, but it didn't open to traffic until 1957. The interchange itself was built in the early 1970s. A50 opened in 1972.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A6/7 Knooppunt Joure*

The construction of the new Joure motorway interchange (A6/7) in Friesland province has been awarded to Gebr. van der Lee, a relatively small construction company. It's not an established name in large scale motorway projects. Other bidders can appeal until early July. Full-scale contruction will begin in late 2015. The new interchange will open to traffic in late 2017.

Render of the new interchange.

Impressie nieuwe knooppunt by Fotosite Knooppunt Joure, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*car taxes*

A formal proposal has been published concerning car taxes.

*New car purchase tax (BPM)*
A major point is the car purchase tax 'BPM'. It is a CO2 based tax. It is one of the highest taxes in Europe, while very small cars have low purchase tax. This results in the Dutch car fleet consisting of smaller cars, but also an older car fleet because it is a disincentive to buy a new car. The Dutch car fleet is on average 1.5 - 2.5 years older than in Belgium and Germany. At the same time it is bureaucratic to import a car from another EU country. 

The plan is to reduce the BPM, eventually to zero. They can't scrap it at once, because company car fleets would have gigantic write-offs. 

*Company car tax rates (bijtelling)*
At the same time they will reduce the number of tax rates for company cars from 4 to 2. PHEV or plug-in hybrid car incentives will be discontinued. All fiscal incentives are now focused on zero-emission company vehicles (mostly electric vehicles), which will have a 4% tax rate (_bijtelling_ in Dutch). All other company vehicles will have a 22% tax rate. Which means a lower tax rate for less fuel-efficient cars (currently 25%). 

The company car tax rate implies a fraction of the catalogue price of the car which is added to your gross income, where you pay income tax over. For example, a 25% tax rate on a € 50.000 car means you have to add € 12.500 to your gross income, where you pay an income tax over. 

*Road tax (MRB)*
The road tax, known as the _motorrijtuigenbelasting_ (MRB) or vehicle tax, is an annual / monthly tax on owning a vehicle. Its rates are dependent on the province, weight and fuel type (unlike Germany and Belgium where it is dependent on engine size). They will lower the road tax by an average of 2%. This is rather meaningless, I pay € 25 per month, so this tax relief is going to save me € 0.50 per month. 

The road tax will be increased from 2019 for diesel cars without particle filters. At that time it will concern diesel cars older than 12-14 years.

*Effects*
The whole plan is budget-neutral across the car tax spectrum. The BPM has eroded considerably from a € 3.3 billion revenue in 2008 to just over € 1 billion today. Combined with the low company car tax on plug-in hybrids, it resulted in severe market distortion. In some cases the _worldwide_ production of some models were entirely sold in the Netherlands due to extreme incentives that did not exist elsewhere due to the messed up tax situation. Examples are the VW Golf GTE, Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV and Volvo V60 PHEV. One gram of CO2 more or less resulted in either booming car sales, or almost no car sales at all.


----------



## riiga

^^ It's like they don't want anyone to own a car at all with those crazy expensive taxes. Here it's only an annual tax in the range somewhere around 100-200 €.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^Only Daffodil you can roll :lol:

It is strange to see, since my understanding is NL was a big consumer (especially compared to other European countries) of large American cars through until the late 1970's with their big engines and all  I think more even than Sweden.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Amersfoort*

The A1 is being widened along the north side of Amersfoort, eastbound only. From 2 to 3 lanes. Roadworks started in March, and the third lane is already open to traffic across the entire workzone since early June, so it took only 3 months to add this lane. The western half is completed, the eastern half is a workzone with 3 lanes (wider than before construction).

I like how they already introduce new capacity in the early stages of construction. In many countries such a project would take much longer. This is one of the reasons why the Netherlands has only 4% of congestion caused by road works.


----------



## jajaK

ChrisZwolle said:


> The construction of the new Joure motorway interchange (A6/7) in Friesland province has been awarded to Gebr. van der Lee, a relatively small construction company. It's not an established name in large scale motorway projects. Other bidders can appeal until early July. Full-scale contruction will begin in late 2015. The new interchange will open to traffic in late 2017.


Do you know how long it took to plan the whole deal? There was an article about a similar project (Spillepengen) in my city, in which the interviewed project leader said that the 8 years the planning took is tight. It seems to go really fast in the Netherlands, or am I wrong?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ It depends what includes 'planning'. If you're talking about legal procedures, the average procedural time for a motorway project went down from 11 to 4 years in the Netherlands with the introduction of new legislation. However, some went on for much longer, but this is also the result of political indecisiveness. 

4 years is relatively fast, though it can be done even faster if there is no extended political debate about the solution and funding is available.

The draft EIS usually takes the most time to compile. It includes all environmental studies, design and configuration. The final EIS is usually just an update based on public input. These are often just minor changes, often to secondary roads included in the motorway project. 

The public commenting period is six weeks. After that, the Council of State must issue a verdict within six months (though they often take somewhat longer due to the high work load). You can only appeal once in the Netherlands, against the final EIS, and also only if you gave input to the draft EIS.


----------



## jajaK

Pretty much what I was wondering - from idea to start of construction. Thanks for a good answer!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Asfaltmeter*

The official 'asphalt gauge' of the government. It keeps track of how much new lanes have been completed during this government. The plan is to construct 717 kilometers of new lanes by 2017.

http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/wegen/aanleg-van-nieuwe-wegen


----------



## EPA001

^^ Nice.


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ It depends what includes 'planning'. If you're talking about legal procedures, the average procedural time for a motorway project went down from 11 to 4 years in the Netherlands with the introduction of new legislation. However, some went on for much longer, but this is also the result of political indecisiveness.
> 
> 4 years is relatively fast, though it can be done even faster if there is no extended political debate about the solution and funding is available.
> 
> The draft EIS usually takes the most time to compile. It includes all environmental studies, design and configuration. The final EIS is usually just an update based on public input. These are often just minor changes, often to secondary roads included in the motorway project.
> 
> The public commenting period is six weeks. After that, the Council of State must issue a verdict within six months (though they often take somewhat longer due to the high work load). You can only appeal once in the Netherlands, against the final EIS, and also only if you gave input to the draft EIS.


That.


----------



## Suburbanist

*A12 Linschoten - Den Haag*

another video of the sector


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9, Amsterdam*

Large scale contruction begins on A9 on August 10. They will expand the motorway from 2x2 lanes with shoulder running to 11 lanes, featuring local lanes, express lanes and a reversible lane. Part of it will be constructed in a 3 kilometer long tunnel, the Gaasperdam Tunnel (3027 m).

2013 photo of the project area:









Tunnel cross section:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A24 Blankenburg Tunnel, Rotterdam*

Renders of the new A24 Blankenburg Tunnel in Rotterdam. It will link A15 & A20 on the west side of the city.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*

Recent photos of A4 under construction between Delft and Schiedam.


----------



## EPA001

^^ Great updates on on-going and upcoming large infrastructure projects in The Netherlands. Thanks for posting! kay:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen*

The final EIS has been signed for the construction of a new 2x2, 100 km/h expressway southeast of Zwolle. It runs from the Oldeneelallee traffic lights to the Koelmansstraat east of Wijthmen. It will be published tomorrow. 

It's a 4 kilometer new segment of expressway on a new alignment south of Wijthmen. This eliminates a daily bottleneck. The current traffic volumes on two-lane N35 are 25,000 vehicles per day.

The new N35 will open in 2017.

The plan is to eventually construct the entire N35 between Zwolle and Almelo as a 2x2, 100 km/h expressway. However, there are no concrete plans for other segments between Zwolle and Nijverdal.


----------



## EPA001

^^ What does EIS means in this regard? :dunno:


----------



## keokiracer

EPA001 said:


> ^^ What does EIS means in this regard? :dunno:


Tracébesluit


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15 Botlek Bridge*

It is open to traffic! :cheers:

80 km/h though. It was planned with 100 km/h in the environmental studies.


----------



## Vliegtuigbouwert

Why is the speed limit revised? Is it only temporary until the end of the construction works?


----------



## keokiracer

Vliegtuigbouwert said:


> Is it only temporary until the end of the construction works?


This is indeed the case. When the roadworks are finished it will be 100km/h as planned.


----------



## snowdog

Typical that the 80 km/h limit is applied directly ON the bridge, where there are no roadworks to be seen ( at least not on above pic) ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A video of the new Botlek Bridge:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

And the first bridge malfunction already occurred today... A motorist hit one of the gates so they didn't open properly. 

Bridge malfunctions are a major topic in Spijkenisse, as their only other link to Rotterdam, the Spijkenisse Bridge, has frequent malfunctions. People are fed up with it.


----------



## BlackC

Looks awesome. How long did it take to be completed (studies, actual works, etc) ?
Meanwhile in Antwerp we re still debatting the Oosterweelverbinding when people are losing hours daily in traffic jams.

If only our infrastructure could match 75% of yours lol.


----------



## Suburbanist

I don't understand why there is still a gap between Spijkenisse and Nieuw-Beijerland, without a bridge or tunnel.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*


----------



## Slagathor

That photo is gonna be in the dictionary soon, next to the word "wasteful".


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N315, Doetinchem*

A new part of the eastern ring road of the city of Doetinchem opened to traffic today. It is part of N315 and allows quicker access to the A18 motorway from Zelhem. It's a regular two-lane urban arterial.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Diemen - Muiden*

The new alignment of A1 between the Diemen motorway interchange (A1/9) and Aquaduct Vechtzicht at Muiden.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N35 Salland-Twente Tunnel, Nijverdal*

The Salland-Twente Tunnel in Nijverdal will finally open to traffic on Saturday 29 August. 

The tunnel project was a combination of a road and rail tunnel. The rail tube already opened to traffic in April 2013. The road tube was delayed by IT problems. Opening was originally planned in late 2012, but they changed the design during construction to comply with the new tunnel law. The opening date was then postponed to 2014, late 2014 and now late August 2015. Construction took six years, which is much longer than most road projects in the Netherlands, which typically take 2 - 3 years.


N35 Salland-Twentetunnel 01-11-2014-4 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ I stitched this satellite view together of the N35 tunnel.


----------



## Suburbanist

This project looks an enormous waste of money, to be honest. The railway should have got grade-separated with viaducts or short trenches on roads, and the road should have been replaced with a bypass. The rest of the money would had been much useful upgrading N35.


----------



## EPA001

^^ I agree. But the choices have been made, and not much we can do about it now. The opening should bring quite a relieve on the current traffic situation I guess.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Knooppunt Holendrecht*

The Holendrecht motorway interchange (A2/A9) near Amsterdam. It took some time to stitch this together.


----------



## keokiracer

I see you're having some fun with the PDOK-viewer Chris  kay:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, finally some decent imagery that is not dated 2005 like Google Earth 

The PDOK viewer imagery seems to be dated 2014.


----------



## Pietruch

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Salland-Twente Tunnel in Nijverdal will finally open to traffic on Saturday 29 August.


Is there any plans for changes on old stretch of N35?
There is very unusual bicycle solution for Netherlands - sidewalk + "fietsen toegestaan".


----------



## Des

Time to connect A4 to A29 and connect Spijkenisse to the new motorway with an exit.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I agree, this should be a priority. 

It is still part of the official planning (SVIR), but political priority seems near-zero. This is partially because of the recent large expansion of A15 which addressed some of the congestion problems in the area (A4 to A29 via A15). 

I'm guessing they want to see how the A24 Blankenburg Tunnel works out with tolls and perhaps finance a southern extension of A4 the same way. 

A southern extension of A4 has several problems, none of which can't be overcome, but requires significant investment in the corridor. First, there are two tunnels needed to cross the Oude Maas and Spui Rivers. Second, the Haringvliet Bridge is functionally obsolete. It needs replacement in the longer term, perhaps with an aquaduct.


----------



## Wilhem275

Half-OT: does "Spui" have a specific meaning, or is it just a name?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Spuien means flowing water to the sea via a sluice. 

Interesting, the Spui River is called '*Het* Spui' in Dutch, while most rivers are called '*De* (Rijn, Waal, IJssel, etc.)'

The Spui River is a tidal river which quite strong currents.


----------



## -Pino-

You won't find a Dutchman that still uses the noun 'spui' other than when referring to canals or streets with that name. The historical meaning of the word 'spui' refers to overflows, i.e. places where water will be pumped to.


----------



## Wilhem275

Thank you. Maybe it's related to the German _spülen_.
So, the Spui streets in Amsterdam and Den Haag are related to that meaning? They look like they could have been canals in the past.


----------



## Slagathor

I imagine so. In that sense, the streetname _Spui_ is no different from _Markt_ or _X-kade_ or _X-haven_. It just refers to historical activities taking place in those locations.


----------



## julesstoop

'Spui' is related to 'spuwen' (spitting or vomiting) a word which can be traced back all the way to Latin, Greek and even Sanskrit. You'll find words with the same ancestry in most European languages. 

However, spui/spuwen is most probably not related to 'spoelen' (Dutch) / 'spülen' (German). This word is purely Germanic (only to be found in West-Germanic languages) and has an otherwise unclear etymology.


----------



## da_scotty

Wilhem275 said:


> Thank you. Maybe it's related to the German _spülen_.
> So, the Spui streets in Amsterdam and Den Haag are related to that meaning? They look like they could have been canals in the past.


It was in Amsterdam:










You could read this thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1494681


----------



## Slagathor

^^ In The Hague as well, but it was closed in the late 19th century to make way for the tram. You can see it on an old map here.


----------



## Wilhem275

Yeah, it's usually pretty easy to recognize former canals by the shape of the road, if it was not completely redesigned.

The same happens with their counterparts in Venice (_rio terà_, literally "buried canal"):










Also, about the Haagse Spui: is the canal still under it? I wonder what's bringing water to and out of the Hofvijver.


----------



## verfmeer

Wilhem275 said:


> Also, about the Haagse Spui: is the canal still under it? I wonder what's bringing water to and out of the Hofvijver.


 I don't think so, because there is an underground parking and tramtunnel underneath. According to Wikipedia the Hofvijver is filled with filtered water from the Maas river. The old water source is the Haagse Beek (see page 13 of this research report).


----------



## Wilhem275

Oh yes, of course. What an idiot, I completely forgot about the tram tunnel icard:

Talking about Den Haag: any status update about the underground parking in the Noordwal/Veenkade area?
Last August the boat owner who hosted us was mildly upset about the interrupted canal


----------



## Slagathor

Wilhem275 said:


> Oh yes, of course. What an idiot, I completely forgot about the tram tunnel icard:
> 
> Talking about Den Haag: any status update about the underground parking in the Noordwal/Veenkade area?
> Last August the boat owner who hosted us was mildly upset about the interrupted canal


All done. 

It's a fully automated parking garage (with fancy elevator) directly underneath the canal. All spaces (158 of them) have already been reserved by local residents and businesses (it's supposed to open one of these days). 

The whole project cost 25 million, of which the parking garage cost 15 million.




























Source of these images: the Facebook page of The Hague city center.


----------



## Wilhem275

Sweet! A nice addition to the city, I would say.


----------



## Slagathor

It was such a success that they've now begun digging a parking garage for some 300 spaces underneath Tournooiveld (where Lange Voorhout meets the Hofvijver). No canal this time, however. 









Photo by Peter de Ruiter. Source: Centrum Den Haag @ Facebook.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Drivers continue to crash into the gate for the reversible lanes in the Coen Tunnel in Amsterdam.


----------



## snowdog

> No canal this time, however.


Not a fan of canals in cities tbh, they don't serve a purpose mostly ( excluding the places where there is a lot of boat traffic still), space that could be better used imo.



> Drivers continue to crash into the gate for the reversible lanes in the Coen Tunnel in Amsterdam.


It's a nice idiot filter.
Shame they don't take away the license of those that drive into it!


----------



## Koesj

snowdog said:


> Not a fan of canals in cities tbh, they don't serve a purpose mostly ( excluding the places where there is a lot of boat traffic still), space that could be better used imo.


Haha you don't leave the basement very often, do you?


----------



## Kanadzie

the canal flooded his basement


----------



## KIWIKAAS

Snowdog should have been born in Texas


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ NL is practically Euro-Texas with the oil industry and giant highways 
Just the taxes not the same


----------



## KIWIKAAS

Euro-Texas :lol:


----------



## Ni3lS

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ NL is practically Euro-Texas with the oil industry and giant highways
> Just the taxes not the same


You have no idea man...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N356 Drachten - Dokkum*

The first 2.8 km of 'De Centrale As', the N356 expressway from Drachten to Dokkum, opened to traffic this morning. It is opened with 2x2 lanes, but acts as a detour route because the old route will be downgraded. As agricultural vehicles are temporarily allowed during reconstruction of the old road, the speed limit is 70 km/h

The expressway is open to traffic from the interchange near Broeksterwâld to the Boppewei roundabout near De Westereen.























































Photos by GuteFahrt.


----------



## snowdog

Koesj said:


> Haha you don't leave the basement very often, do you?


If by the basement you mean my office, yeah, I have to spend an annoying amount of time there, especially last week (been working 10-11 hrs a day half the week grr), I get around here and there though, past 7 days :gunz: :










If I spent most of my time in the basement I wouldn't care about canals or the city. But when I look at most canals I see space that could be used for roads or parking. Especially in 020, ugh, but guess it serves a tourist function there.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ just get Amphicar and use them 

I was cleaning some things in my desk and I found a kwartje from 1987, and I'm drinking a Heineken, if only I had some wooden shoes


----------



## bigic

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ NL is practically Euro-Texas with the oil industry and giant highways
> Just the taxes not the same


In my opinion, the Netherlands are more comparable with New Jersey.


----------



## Slagathor

bigic said:


> In my opinion, the Netherlands are more comparable with New Jersey.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ he has a point though, it looks kind of like New Jersey if you got rid of all the canals. NJ has plenty of huge highways and oil refineries also.
even the ugly industrial areas of NJ look kind of like Rotterdam 
and of course historic Dutch area of North America was more or less around there (well more in New York)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Leiden - Den Haag 2x4*

The Council of State has dismissed the single appeal against the widening of A4 between Leiden and Den Haag (Leidschendam interchange). The A4 will be widened from 2x3 to 2x4 lanes along this stretch. It will coincide with the new Rijnland Route interchange just south of Leiden and feed into the local/express setup near Leiden. 

Due to other priorities the widening is planned for 2020. It is a cheap widening in the median.










Present-day A4:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A50, Apeldoorn*

There is a viewing tower located at the Apeldoorn exit along A50. It is basically an advertising tower, but they added a viewing platform. As the platform is below the top of the tower, the view is not that great, but it allows for some photos.


A50 Apeldoorn-1 by European Roads, on Flickr


A50 Apeldoorn-2 by European Roads, on Flickr


A50 Apeldoorn-3 by European Roads, on Flickr


A50 Apeldoorn-4 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 'Warschauer Allee'*

A video of A1 in eastern Netherlands, from Apeldoorn to Hengelo. The motorway is nicknamed the 'Warschauer Allee' (like A2 in Germany) due to the high volume of trucks. The right lane is often loaded with trucks. Although there are many trucks from Poland, the foreign trucks are very diverse, mostly from central / eastern Europe. It carries a lot of trucks from Russia as well.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1/A28 Hoevelaken motorway interchange*

The updated design of the Hoevelaken motorway interchange near Amersfoort was unveiled today.

It is an improvement over the previous design. The Hoevelaken exit will be accessible from all directions, and another turbine connector will be added.

There will be one direct connector (Amsterdam > Zwolle) and two turbine connectors (Apeldoorn > Utrecht & Utrecht > Amsterdam), leaving just a single loop ramp (Zwolle > Apeldoorn) as that route carries the least traffic.

Construction is planned for 2019-2024. It also includes the widening of nearly 40 kilometers of A1 and A28 to 2x4 lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N46 Groningen*

I made a video of N46 (and N7) around Groningen. They form the eastern and southern ring road. N46 was recently reconstructed to an expressway with interchanges. The finishing touches remain to be done, but it's a job well done.


----------



## Surel

bigic said:


> In my opinion, the Netherlands are more comparable with New Jersey.


Depends on which areas in nl you would compare, but I would certainly go for the US north east. Culturally then I would rather compare texas to the eastern europe.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ChrisZwolle said:


> Road authority _Rijkswaterstaat_ has awarded the construction of shoulder lanes along A7 and A8 between Purmerend and Amsterdam to BAM. They will design and construct the shoulder lanes. The first visible construction will be just before the summer holidays, and the shoulder lane will go into operation late 2015.


Construction of the shoulder lanes started today. They will be operational before the winter. The project cost is € 25 million and includes a complete repaving of A7. Paving will be done during the night in September and October. A noise barrier along A8 will be moved for the construction of an SOS bay. There will be a short 90 km/h work zone at that location.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ChrisZwolle said:


> The first works have started to reconstruct N279 between A2 at 's-Hertogenbosch and A50 at Veghel to a four-lane, controlled-access highway. It will be designed for 100 km/h, but kept at 80 km/h for the time being, as they are afraid it will attract too much truck traffic (makes sense, right? :nuts: )
> 
> There will be 2x2 lanes, 4 new interchanges. The A2 and A50 interchanges will remain with traffic lights. The planned completion date is November 2017, but Noord-Brabant province has hinted the new capacity may become available in 2016.


Large-scale construction started today. They will first construct new parallel roads and bike paths. Several roads will be realigned near Berlicum, and a small river will be moved. 

Construction will be done chiefly between 7 a.m. and 7 p.m. during work days. Only works with large traffic impact will be done during weekends and nights.


----------



## Turf

Veghel is a major logistics hub so good capacity is increased.


----------



## da_scotty

How will the interchanges look? Any freeflow between N273 and N270 roads?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*

The media is reporting that the A4 motorway between Delft and Schiedam will open to traffic on 18 December.

The final paving works were done this weekend.



















More: http://www.vlaardingen24.nl/nieuws/nieuws/a4-midden-delfland-vanaf-18-december-open-


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N35 Nijverdal*

The first morning rush hour since the tunnel in Nijverdal opened...









Normally it would be jammed in both directions.


----------



## temlin

Any plans to downgrade the road?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There will likely be a reconstruction, but as you can see it's already fairly narrow and not the typical 1960s through street with wide lanes. There are several pedestrian crossings (one with traffic lights) and there is a 50 km/h speed limit, though you'd normally drive some 30-40 km/h due to traffic and pedestrians / cyclists.

I'm guessing it will be a 30 km/h street with on-street cycling.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Ââ


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> There will likely be a reconstruction, but as you can see it's already fairly narrow and not the typical 1960s through street with wide lanes. There are several pedestrian crossings (one with traffic lights) and there is a 50 km/h speed limit, though you'd normally drive some 30-40 km/h due to traffic and pedestrians / cyclists.
> 
> I'm guessing it will be a 30 km/h street with on-street cycling.


I must say that the on-street cycling traffic policies that are being introduced recently in some downgraded roads are not something I would endorse. I don't mind downgrading, narrowing, speed bumps, and other calming policies, but mixing cars and cycling traffic seems to me as a step back.


----------



## Slagathor

I agree. As a cyclist, I hate it.


----------



## keokiracer

Also agreed. I want to cycle safely and don't want to be the living equivalent of a traffic calming policy only put there to slow motorized traffic down...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N356 Drachten - Dokkum*

Some aerial photos of the new N356 expressway, called the 'Centrale As' in Friesland province. It runs from Drachten to Dokkum and is built under several contracts. The northernmost segment is nearly completed and partially open to traffic.

1. The northern terminus at Dokkum, looking west to the N356 / N361 roundabout. 









2. Underpass.









3. 









4. De Falom wildlife crossing.









5. The aquaduct at Burgum.









6. Looking north across N356. At the bottom is existing N31.


----------



## aswnl

Slagathor said:


> I agree. As a cyclist, I hate it.


I agree. As a motorist, I hate it too.


----------



## temlin

aswnl said:


> I agree. As a motorist, I hate it too.


Especially when there is a roundabout, so you get cyclist from both directions.


----------



## snowdog

Tbh I don't really mind that, still far better than traffic lights.
''Fietsstraten'' are something I see popping up more and more, idiot politicians imho, luckily they have no legal status whatsoever, why on earth would you force a car to be stuck behind some slow cyclist? Typical bullying of motorists. Slow traffic should always be kept separate from cars and motorcycles.
I generally think all traffic calming is retarded though, average speed should be increased on all fronts, not decreased.


I am very very curious about the A4 opening in December, if there will be a noticeable difference on the A16>A20>A13. Also wonder if the A15 and A4 Beneluxtunnel can cope with the extra traffic.

An alternative Rotterdam-The Hague route is always good though!


----------



## MrAronymous

temlin said:


> Especially when there is a roundabout, so you get cyclist from both directions.


That's just stupid and doesn't have to do anything with road downgrading/categorization that comes with Sustainable Safety they were talking about.



snowdog said:


> Slow traffic should always be kept separate from cars and motorcycles.
> I generally think all traffic calming is retarded though


Yes. Let's get rid of any speed limits and ban cyclists from using any road. Awesome.



> average speed should be increased on all fronts, not decreased.


Use a brain.


----------



## snowdog

MrAronymous said:


> Yes. Let's get rid of any speed limits and ban cyclists from using any road. Awesome.


Yes there should be no speed limits on motorways.

And yes, cyclists belong on cycle paths anywhere where cars go 50 km/h or faster. Who in their right mind wants to destroy cycle paths and put cyclists back with the cars ? :bash:


> Use a brain.


Perhaps some people do not want to waste to much time commuting and actually want to get from A to B, rather than commuting longer than necessary and living in a narrow circle all day long.


----------



## Surel

temlin said:


> Especially when there is a roundabout, so you get cyclist from both directions.


That's completely all right I would say. I had it about things like this one.






And other cases when even already functioning bicycle infrastructure is scrapped and bicycles are pushed on the road. Or even just renovating the current situation to a bicycle street. When you realize how much money it costs, it would be much better to create a solution that would be clearly separating bicycles and other traffic and not this:

Things like this:








or


----------



## MrAronymous

snowdog said:


> Who in their right mind wants to destroy cycle paths and put cyclists back with the cars ? :bash:


I agree with you on this, but it's not what you said earlier and what I responded to.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The 'bikescout'. It warns drivers of cyclists approaching a priority intersection. That way cyclists don't have to be aware of traffic so can keep texting. :lol:


----------



## EPA001

^^ These lights are also installed on the Coolsingel and the Westblaak in the Rotterdam City Center. But in those cases they are installed just before pedestrian crossings.


----------



## Pietruch

> I must say that the on-street cycling traffic policies that are being introduced recently in some downgraded roads are not something I would endorse. I don't mind downgrading, narrowing, speed bumps, and other calming policies, but mixing cars and cycling traffic seems to me as a step back.





> I agree. As a cyclist, I hate it.





> Also agreed. I want to cycle safely and don't want to be the living equivalent of a traffic calming policy only put there to slow motorized traffic down...


So you prefer previous situation with mixing cyclist with pedestrians (pretty crowded sidewalk)...?
I think there is no room for fietspad or cycle lanes in that situation.
Unless you remove trees and parked cars which is fairly unlikely.


----------



## Slagathor

That street has plenty of room for a bike path. It's wider than this one, for example.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The current pedestrian zones have a 'cycling allowed' status. 

One of the reasons why it's tight is due to the fact that it is a shopping street, not a residential street. There are shops with some items displayed out the front and a few restaurants with seating on the sidewalk. 

The former N35 is quite narrow. There aren't even marked lanes. It wasn't a high-speed thoroughfare.

Scrapping parking will not generate much more usable space along the road, as there are large trees planted between the parking lots. So you can't put a bike path there.


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> The current pedestrian zones have a 'cycling allowed' status.
> 
> One of the reasons why it's tight is due to the fact that it is a shopping street, not a residential street. There are shops with some items displayed out the front and a few restaurants with seating on the sidewalk.
> 
> The former N35 is quite narrow. There aren't even marked lanes. It wasn't a high-speed thoroughfare.
> 
> Scrapping parking will not generate much more usable space along the road, as there are large trees planted between the parking lots. So you can't put a bike path there.


Why not? Can't the road be narrower?









And even if this would not be the option, you could still cut the trees and plant new ones. Especially if it is a shopping street, it will probably undergo a complete overhaul anyway. There seems to be space enough, further on you can even see a car on the left side standing next to the buildings.


----------



## Kanadzie

considering the traffic volume seems light, why do anything?
I mean, no bicycle, no car there...
surely if one Geert rides his Daf on one side of the road and Wim rides on the other with a bicycle there is no issue
certainly nothing to spend probably million Euro on...


----------



## Pietruch

> And even if this would not be the option, you could still cut the trees and plant new ones. Especially if it is a shopping street, it will probably undergo a complete overhaul anyway. There seems to be space enough, further on you can even see a car on the left side standing next to the buildings.


Ok some of the trees are not so close to the road https://www.google.pl/maps/@52.3654...lmqOv8qAC2CA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=pl 
but some are very close https://www.google.pl/maps/@52.3654...jwvcACOPFb0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=pl so cuting the bushes is not enough.

But....why you want to do that? If there is no traffic now?
Why you want to cut this nice and big trees?


----------



## snowdog

Don't fix what isn't broken. I don't understand the obsession with destroying/downgrading perfectly good roads.

That street is already narrow.


----------



## italystf

Surel said:


> That's completely all right I would say. I had it about things like this one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And other cases when even already functioning bicycle infrastructure is scrapped and bicycles are pushed on the road. Or even just renovating the current situation to a bicycle street. When you realize how much money it costs, it would be much better to create a solution that would be clearly separating bicycles and other traffic and not this:
> 
> Things like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or


I think it was safer if they made the road one-way for cars, with a two-ways bike lane on the side.


----------



## MrAronymous

If by safer you mean "so cars can achieve higher speeds", then yeah, sure.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ as a general rule, the faster the cars are going the safer the road is (just look at motorways...)


----------



## g.spinoza

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ as a general rule, the faster the cars are going the safer the road is (just look at motorways...)


Not really. Motorways are safe not because cars drive at high speed but because there are no interferences. They would be a lot safer (_a lot_) if cars go at slower speed.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ as a general rule, the faster the cars are going the safer the road is (just look at motorways...)


^^ Are you being obtuse deliberately, or are you just stupid?


----------



## italystf

MrAronymous said:


> If by safer you mean "so cars can achieve higher speeds", then yeah, sure.


No, because segregation between cars and bicycles reduces the risk of accidents.


----------



## Suburbanist

The most dangerous in US are arterials without proper pedestrian crossing and a central turning lane


----------



## Suburbanist

Driving in Amsterdam, one of the worse combination of street routes - subway-related roadworks, bad cycle lane layout, insufficient tourist bus places etc. tec. Vijzelstraat and Rokin are as bad as it gets for everyone moving thing including the trams.


----------



## Des

Suburbanist said:


> Driving in Amsterdam, one of the worse combination of street routes - subway-related roadworks, bad cycle lane layout, insufficient tourist bus places etc. tec. Vijzelstraat and Rokin are as bad as it gets for everyone moving thing including the trams. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4tpWIFgFR8">YouTube Link</a>


Tourist busses should be banned there


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This is pretty bad behavior. Once one guy crossed into the closed connector ramp, everyone followed and ignored the big red Xs.


----------



## Reivajar

Why was it closed?


----------



## keokiracer

Accident in the connector ramp.


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## Suburbanist

Des said:


> Tourist busses should be banned there


It is complicated, as that area concentrates many larger hotels that cater for groups. Buses somehow have to reach the hotels.


----------



## EPA001

A very nice report by forum member Michiel of the status on the missing link A4-MD (Midden Deldfland or the middle of the Delfland polder). A part of the new road was opened for the public yesterday. 



Michiel said:


> Open dag op de A4, helaas was er maar een klein stukje van het informatiecentrum tot de Oostveenseweg opengesteld (ongeveer 1 km). De belangstelling was veel groter dan verwacht, oorspronkelijk waren er maar 120 plaatsen voor de rondleiding. Volgens de medewerker waren er na 1 dag al 200 aanmeldingen. In plaats van rondleidingen kon je nu zelfstandig over de route.
> 
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> 7. Zelfs op een afgesloten snelweg moet je opletten voor controles
> 
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> 9. Keerpunt bij de Oostveenseweg
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----------



## snowdog

What I wonder is how the Beneluxtunnel will hold up with the extra traffic !

They should put the wisselstrook in operation to add an extra lane of capacity in the most busy direction on busy hours ( or permanently northwards!).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N381 Appelscha*

A video about the upgrade of provincial road N381 in Friesland, the two-lane segment around Appelscha, from Oosterwolde to the Drenthe border. This segment will be upgraded to a grade-separated super two undivided expressway.

The project includes underpasses for covered wagons, which are used as a tourist attraction in the area.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*busiest motorways in the Netherlands*

The busiest motorways in the Netherlands, as of 2014.


 A4 Prins Clausplein - Ypenburg (Den Haag): 244.100
 A15/16 Ridderkerk-Noord - Ridderkerk-Zuid (Rotterdam): 238.000
 A16 Van Brienenoord Bridge (Rotterdam): 228.300
 A4 De Hoek - Hoofddorp (Amsterdam): 220.500
 A10 De Nieuwe Meer - Oud Zuid (Amsterdam): 219.400
 A2 Utrecht-Centrum - Oudenrijn: 215.300
 A12 Nieuwegein - Utrecht-Kanaleneiland: 210.800


----------



## postHUMANproject

ChrisZwolle said:


> € 666 million


Coincedence, or a dark omen?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*busiest border crossings in the Netherlands*

The busiest border crossings in the Netherlands (as far as they are part of the national road network).

A16 Hazeldonk 66.000
A76 Stein 51.900
A67 Eersel 35.200
A12 Beek 33.400
A67 Venlo 32.400
A76 Bocholtz 30.200
A4 Ossendrecht 29.500
A74 Venlo 23.900
A1 De Lutte 21.600
A2 Eijsden 18.700
A37 Zwartemeer 16.300
A77 Gennep 12.500
N35 Enschede 12.200
A7 Bad Nieuweschans 9.900

Traffic at the A37/E233 Zwartemeer border crossing has grown nearly 50% since 2011. It is now clearly the busiest crossing in northern Netherlands, it used to be tied to A7/E22 Bad Nieuweschans.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*speed limits*

The A12 speed limit goes up to 130 km/h, day and night, starting next Sunday 20 September. It applies to a 22 kilometer stretch of motorway between Reeuwijk and De Meern (west of Utrecht). 

The other direction will go up next month, when they finished transforming the left peak hour lane into a permanent 4th lane.


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## EPA001

^^ I did not even know they were going to make that 4th lane a permanent one. It was about time though.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N50 Ens - Emmeloord*

N50 between Emmeloord and Ens in Flevoland province has been widened to 2 lanes southbound.


N50 Ens - Emmeloord-11 by European Roads, on Flickr


N50 Ens - Emmeloord-15 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

The A10 motorway - Amsterdam Ring Road, south of the Coen Tunnel.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Amsterdam*

Construction officially started yesterday on the A9 expansion through southeastern Amsterdam. The motorway will be widened from 4 to 10 lanes and includes a 3 kilometer long tunnel with 5 tubes. 

Render:


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## ChrisZwolle

*A10 Amsterdam*

The A10 was widened between 2010 and 2014 to accommodate traffic from the new A5 motorway feeding into the expanded Coen Tunnel. 

Before widening, this stretch of A10 had the highest traffic volume of any 2x2 motorway in the Netherlands with an annual average of 110,000 vehicles per day.

A before & after comparison:


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## ChrisZwolle

*A24 Blankenburg Link*

The minister of transportation has signed the draft plan approval order (_ontwerp-tracébesluit_) for the construction of the A24 motorway west of Rotterdam today.

The new six-lane motorway will be 4.2 kilometers long and link A15 and A20 west of Rotterdam. There will be two tunnels, the 950 meter long Blankenburg Tunnel and the 510 meter long Aalkeet Tunnel. 

The construction cost is estimated at € 1.1 billion, of which € 316 million will be paid for with tolls. There will be an electronic toll collection system with license plate recognition. The tolls are set at € 1.18 for cars and € 7.11 for trucks (price level 2013). 

The tunnel will be completed sometime between 2022 and 2024.


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## Slagathor

I suppose that'll mark the end of the Maassluis ferry (for cars anyway).


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## ChrisZwolle

*A16 extension*

The draft plan approval order (ontwerp-tracébesluit) has been published for the A16 extension around Rotterdam today.

There are not a lot of surprises, most of it was already known. The A16 extension contains a 2.1 kilometer tunnel. The motorway features 2x2 lanes on the north-south segment (including the tunnel, but with space for a future upgrade to 2x3 lanes), and 2x3 lanes on the east-west segment north of Rotterdam. The speed limit will be 100 km/h.

The A13 into Rotterdam will not be downgraded given the future traffic volume of 116,000 vehicles per day (currently 160,000 vpd).The extension seems to be clearly indicated as A16, not A13. Up until now it was mostly referred to as the A13/A16 link.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A10 Coen Tunnel, Amsterdam*

Congestion at the Coen Tunnel in the 1980s, before the A10 Ring Road was completed.

*File* being the Dutch word for congestion or queue (it has French origin).


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## ChrisZwolle

*A16 Van Brienenoord Bridge, Rotterdam*

The Van Brienenoord Bridge in Rotterdam opens to shipping. It is seen here in 1988 when the second bridge was under construction, to expand capacity from 6 to 12 lanes.


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## MichiH

ChrisZwolle said:


> The draft plan approval order (ontwerp-tracébesluit)


Is it comparable to the German "Gesehen-Vermerk" (Seen notation)? The draft planning (Vorentwurf) must be approved by the Federal Ministry of Transport (plus consulting Federal Court of Auditors and so forth). Afterwards, the plan approval procedure (Planfeststellungsverfahren) can be started.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Tracéwet*

The *Tracéwet* (route law) uses the following steps;

* _Startbeslissing_. Initial decision to start procedures and studies
* _Verkenning_: Scoping alternatives, possible environmental impacts, cost
* _Voorkeursbeslissing_: pick the preferred alternative
* _ontwerp-tracébesluit_: draft EIS / EIA
* _tracébesluit_: final EIS / EIA

EIS / EIA = Environmental Impact Statement / Assessment

The detailed design (exact alignment, lane & interchange configuration, safety features, environmental impact, etc) is set in the draft EIS. The final EIS is merely an update of it, it usually doesn't include major changes compared to the draft EIS. 

The public can comment / participate at each step, but can only appeal at the last step. The public can also only appeal if they commented to at least the draft EIS. Appealing to a final EIS without it, means that their case won't even be considered at court. 

Environmental action groups can appeal, but this almost always means it is a lost case unless their interests are specifically impacted. Ideology arguments alone are not sufficient. In recent years no environmental groups have appealed against a final EIS.


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## MichiH

^^ Thanks. That means, I was wrong. "Gesehen-Vermerk" would be at the end of "Verkenning" and "ontwerp-tracébesluit" is comparable to the beginning of the German plan approval procedure (plans are published, comments of relevant people are possible et cetera).


----------



## Des

ChrisZwolle said:


> The draft plan approval order (ontwerp-tracébesluit) has been published for the A16 extension around Rotterdam today. There are not a lot of surprises, most of it was already known. The A16 extension contains a 2.1 kilometer tunnel. The motorway features 2x2 lanes on the north-south segment (including the tunnel, but with space for a future upgrade to 2x3 lanes), and 2x3 lanes on the east-west segment north of Rotterdam. The speed limit will be 100 km/h. The A13 into Rotterdam will not be downgraded given the future traffic volume of 116,000 vehicles per day (currently 160,000 vpd).The extension seems to be clearly indicated as A16, not A13. Up until now it was mostly referred to as the A13/A16 link.


Why is it not made as a 2x3 from the start?


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Given the forecasted traffic volumes within 15 years, it seems like a no-brainer to construct it with six lanes from the beginning. It's probably a strange political compromise, just like the A4 extension.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Zaltbommel*

The A2 & railroad bridge at Zaltbommel, date unknown, likely in the 1980s. The motorway bridge has been replaced by a large cable-stayed bridge with six lanes since 1996.










Some more background. The original bridge opened to traffic in *1933* and was a four-lane bridge with no median divider. As A2 progressively opened in the 1960s, it became a substandard bottleneck. It wasn't until *1996* that a replacement bridge was constructed, the six-lane Martinus Nijhoff Bridge.

The Martinus Nijhoff Bridge itself is somewhat substandard, as it doesn't have shoulders. Some say this was a typical 1990s cost-saving measure, others say that it may have been projected as just one of two spans with 10 lanes in total.

The need for a second bridge is growing, as traffic volumes are presently at 134,000 vehicles per day with a relatively high truck share. Traffic has grown since the A2 corridor was widened to six / eight lanes in 2010. This particular segment between A59 and A15 was widened on the cheap, as they did not replace the bridges (the Empel Bridge near 's-Hertogenbosch is also a growing bottleneck).


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## ChrisZwolle

*N61 Zeeland*

National road N61 was upgraded between 2012 and 2015, from a deadly two-lane highway to a divided highway with passing lanes and roundabouts. I filmed it in June on the way back from Spain.


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## ChrisZwolle

*foam roundabout*

A new roundabout was constructed in Leeuwarden. It was inaugurated as a work of art, with some kind of water fountain in it.

This is how it should look like:









Of course, this is what happened on the first day; somebody put soap or detergent in it.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N356 De Centrale As*

A 4 kilometer segment of four lane expressway opened to traffic today in Friesland province. It is part of provincial road N356 between Dokkum and Broeksterwâld.

Some photos of an open day this weekend:

Bouwfotografe.nl-100 by De Centrale As (DCA), on Flickr


Bouwfotografe.nl-097 by De Centrale As (DCA), on Flickr


Bouwfotografe.nl-070 by De Centrale As (DCA), on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*Overpad*

A rarity along Dutch motorways was a so-called '_overpad_' (crossing). These were at-grade crossings to isolated farms or farmland. They were generally used by very few traffic. 

The last one disappeared in 2008. It was located on the former alignment of A7 west of Sneek. This section was demolished when the new bypass of Sneek was built.

Here is one crossing A2 in 1988, near the Everdingen motorway interchange. As this crossing does not serve any (un)paved roads or farms, it was likely used only a few times per year to access isolated farmland.



















Another rarity was an active railroad crossing along A2 west of Loenen. It was used by freight trains. The railroad crossing was removed in 1987.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15 Caland Bridge, Rotterdam*

The Caland Bridge, built in 1969, carries local traffic and rail traffic next to the Thomassen Tunnel in the Port of Rotterdam. The bridge was expanded in the 1990s to a double-track railroad. This reduced the projected service life of the bridge. A renovation is needed by 2020.

The secretary of infrastructure picked the preferred alternative, a new railroad along the Theemsweg (literally; Thames Road), with a regular renovation of the road bridge. The Port of Rotterdam will finance a major portion of the new railroad. If this may become unfeasible for whatever reason, funding will be redirected to a large-scale renovation of the Caland Bridge, keeping the railroad where it is. In that case, the bridge deck will be totally stripped to extend its service life by another 50 years.

Residents of nearby Zwartewaal are heavily opposed to the relocation of the railroad.

The Caland Bridge:









The Theemsweg Route:


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## ChrisZwolle

*Kaasplankje*

A '_kaasplankje_' (cheese platter) was a small sign mounted on the crash barriers that indicated sections where a 100 km/h speed limit was in force on motorways. They were installed every 50 or 100 m. 

They were a very common sight along Dutch motorways between 1988 and the early 2000s. The were introduced in 1988 when the general motorway speed limit went up from 100 to 120 km/h. They were replaced by hectometer poles, starting in 2000. Most were phased out pretty quickly.

This is a cheese platter on A4 near Leiden in 1989.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N381 Drachten - Oosterwolde*

The province of Fryslân has reserved € 25 million for a further widening of N381 to a four-lane expressway, between Donkerbroek and the south side of Oosterwolde. The widening is planned to start in late 2017 as all procedures need to be done first.

When completed, there will be nearly 20 kilometers of four-lane, 100 km/h expressway from Drachten to near Appelscha.


----------



## Aumgn

According to Waze, the Netherlands is the best country to drive in. 









http://time.com/4056613/best-country-drive-waze/


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## SRC_100

^^
_Worst_: Romania the same level like Indonesia?! No f...g way! I`ve driven in both country and it`s huge difference, in favor of Romania ofcourse.
_Best_...first place allright but further... not sure...


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## Suburbanist

Is there a formal date (day, month and year) for full completion of A4 works?


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## Slagathor

Assuming that you're referring to the bit between Delft and Rotterdam: they're currently shooting for Friday 18 December 2015 (that would be the day of the official opening).


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## ChrisZwolle

The foam roundabout strikes again!


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## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Den Haag*

The A4 motorway at Den Haag (The Hague). 
Visible is the Ypenburg motorway interchange (A13) in the foreground and the Prins Clausplein motorway interchange (A12). 
This is the busiest stretch of road in the Netherlands, with an annual average of 244,000 vehicles per day.


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## Kanadzie

ChrisZwolle said:


> The foam roundabout strikes again!


I love this I hope it goes on forever, like the Gavle Goat in Sweden :lol:


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## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*

Fresh photos of the A4 between Delft and Schiedam. The missing link will likely open just before Christmas.


A4 Delft Schiedam by Mark van der Meer, on Flickr


IMG_EOS550D_47880 by Mark van der Meer, on Flickr


IMG_EOS550D_47890 by Mark van der Meer, on Flickr


IMG_EOS550D_47906 by Mark van der Meer, on Flickr


IMG_EOS550D_47914 by Mark van der Meer, on Flickr

This is what half a century of discussion looks like.


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## Suburbanist

I wonder if any of the engineers involved in the initial works are still alive to see the project complete.


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## Koesj

The initial EIS was taken in 1965, so if you were a young engineer (<25 yo) working on it back then, you'll be just shy of 75 years old today. Quite an advanced age, but a more than 50% chance that they're still around to this day on an individual basis.


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## Kaaskop

ChrisZwolle said:


> Expenditure by year (not adjusted for inflation)


Not a fair comparison since the expenditures for water quantity (*****, etc.) and water quality was separated from the Infrastructurefund and put in an own fund in 2013. The budget of this new fund is roughly € 1,2 billion in 2016.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A59 Waalwijk*

The bridge across the 'Drongelen Canal' is being replaced. The bridge was built in 1955 and was never designed to be part of a motorway.

They built a temporary bridge so they can build a new motorway bridge. The new bridge will have a 100 km/h design speed. A 120 km/h design speed has proven to be too expensive (twice the budget).










More photos: http://defotograaf.eu/blog/a59/

You can see the original situation on the 1960s topographical map. The bridge was just a short four-lane segment between the single carriageway segments of _rijksweg 59_. The road wasn't widened to a motorway until the late 1970s, the last segment not until 1989. The current traffic is nearly 70,000 vehicles per day.


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## sotonsi

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nobody cares about exit numbers.


Well use the name then! Like I (and the London traffic reports) did! That I also used the number is neither here nor there.

I'm not saying traffic reports should say "afrit 8", I'm saying there's no reason why traffic reports can only give prominence to knooppunts and not "Exit Schiphol", etc.


> In addition, a knooppunt does not have an exit number in the Netherlands.


I've never understood that in France, Netherlands, etc. It makes a mockery of sequential exit numbers in a worse way than missing numbers for exits that weren't built, or suffixed exits for later additions are: unlike those other things, it's actually planned into the system that you have exits that aren't numbered.

At best, knooppunt status is pointless. This not numbering them and the ignoring of afrits in traffic reports makes them worse than pointless - the two-tier system of motorway junctions become a needless impediment to navigation!


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## MrAronymous

Lol ok you just keep believing that.


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## Batavier

My point was indeed that it changing a status from exit to an interchange doesn't change the actual situation. 

I don't have a strong opinion if it should be an interchange or an exit, but if an interchange suggests a free flow of traffic, this "Knooppunt Bodegraven" might be a bad example. Because its only partly free-flowing. Coming from the N11 driving towards A12, is not free-flowing at all, there are a couple of roundabouts and I think also traffic lights but I'm not sure about that, and during rush hours that part is always jammed. 

Another question about interchanges. There are several interchanges in the Netherlands that look more like road mergers and road splits than real interchanges (for instance Gouwe A12/A20, and Burgerveen A4/A44). They are incomplete and lack several options, one cannot drive from Rotterdam to The Hague for instance. Isn't naming these mergers and spits a Knooppunt/interchange a bit misleading? Or do other countries have that too?


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## aswnl

^^
Who says a knooppunt must always be complete (or freeflow) in all directions ? Look at Beverwijk, Velsen, Kooimeer, De Hoek, Kruisberg, Ten Esschen, Tiglia, Het Vonderen, Paalgraven, Oud-Dijk, Gouwe, Ypenburg, Rottepolderplein, Joure, Julianaplein, Hooipolder, etcetera. (Or in the past: Burgerveen, Kunderberg, Klaverpolder, Lankhorst, De Baars, etcetera)

From the 1980's on a knooppunt has been a junction of two motorways.
Since "Duurzaam Veilig" categorisation of roads also non-motorway national motorroads ("stroomwegen") can be part of a knooppunt.

Thus a knooppunt is an interchange between several stretches of the national (motor)roadway network. A knooppunt is because of it's function in national traffic flows more important than the average exit.


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## MattiG

aswnl said:


> ^^
> Who says a knooppunt must always be complete (or freeflow) in all directions ? Look at Beverwijk, Velsen, Kooimeer, De Hoek, Kruisberg, Ten Esschen, Tiglia, Het Vonderen, Paalgraven, Oud-Dijk, Gouwe, Ypenburg, Rottepolderplein, Joure, Julianaplein, Hooipolder, etcetera. (Or in the past: Burgerveen, Kunderberg, Klaverpolder, Lankhorst, De Baars, etcetera)


I do not believe that such a standard is in effect anywhere. Still, making the interchanges to full-functional ones is a typical expectation. The partial solutions typically lead to odd kludges as some of your examples are. 

A major exception is the Y-shaped 3-way branch-type interchange where the angle between branches is small. But if there is a need for moving between branches, the result is often a kludge, like in Het Vonderen.

Of course, the local conditions may limit the number of options. The typical constraint is lack of space. The extra cost-class constraints may apply in the Netherlands: It is not cheap to build motorway bridges on polders, is it?


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## ChrisZwolle

The Dutch motorway network is dense enough for incomplete interchanges not to be a major issue. Sometimes they only added ramps that will be useful in case of incidents and an unusual detour is needed. They added a ramp at the Kunderberg interchange (A76/A79) in Heerlen mainly to be able to detour A2 traffic in case of closures (maybe a few days per year).

In the Netherlands, traffic is almost always detoured via alternate motorways instead of secondary roads. Most motorways carry a far higher volume than even an non-downgraded secondary road could carry. 50,000+ on rural four-lane motorways is pretty much the norm, only in parts of Friesland and eastern Groningen traffic volumes are lower than that.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Traffic in 2015*

Kilometers traveled on the national road work increased from May to August 2015, by 0.9% to 67 billion kilometers. The Dutch national road network comprises mainly the motorways and a few select other N-roads. 

Traffic congestion grew by 3.1%. A20 through Rotterdam remains the most congested motorway in the Netherlands. Only 4% of traffic congestion is caused by road works.

The most congested motorway locations;

1) A20 eastbound through Rotterdam
2) A16 northbound through Rotterdam
3) A28 westbound at Utrecht
4) A1 eastbound near Amersfoort
5) A27 southbound near Gorinchem
6) A20 westbound through Rotterdam
7) A13 southbound in Rotterdam
8) A1 westbound near Amsterdam (Diemen)
9) A27 southbound at Gorinchem
10) A1 westbound near Amersfoort

Some notes; 

The two most congested motorways meet at the Terbregseplein interchange in Rotterdam. The A13-A16 link will alleviate this. 

The A1 just west of Amersfoort is the #4 and #10 most congested location (both directions). This segment carries the highest volume of any rural 2x2 motorway: 110,000 vehicles per day. A widening to 2x4 lanes is planned to begin shortly.

The A27 southbound has two top locations right after each other, #5 and #9 just north and through Gorinchem. Gorinchem is only a small city, but is the location of the outdated Merwede Bridge (95,000 vehicles per day on a narrow 2x2 bridge). An expansion is planned to start later this decade.

Also notable, only one location near Amsterdam is located in the top 10.

Vehicle kilometers on the motorway network:









Traffic congestion (kilometer-minutes) development:









The increase of traffic congestion is mainly due to traffic growth, economic growth has picked up over the last year, with lower unemployment and a recovering transportation sector. Housing construction is also increasing, which means more vans on the road during rush hour. In addition, not much expanded or new capacity came available in the past two years.


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## aswnl

Traffic jams on the A9 and A13 are notorious and add significant to the filezwaarte. Given the completion of A9 around Badhoevedorp and A4 between Delft and Rotterdam I expect the filezwaarte to decrease until 2018. However, there are plans for the A10-zuid that may cause a sharp rise in the years thereafter. At least during the reconstruction.


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## EPA001

The ever so badly missed link between the A4 near Delft and the A4 near Schiedam/Vlaardingen will open late this year. With only a slight delay of just 45 years after it should have been opened according to the initial plans. :nuts:

This will relieve the A13 as the only connection between Amsterdam/Schiphol/The Hague on the one hand, and the Rotterdam Metropolitan Region on the other hand. The long and costly daily traffic jams will not be missed after this connection opens. 

Here is a picture out of the newspaper AD (www.ad.nl) published yesterday:


A4-MD by Erwin Pakasi, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

An aerial photo of the A1 realignment and widening east of Diemen. This is where A1 and A9 will split in a massive 19 lane interchange.


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## postHUMANproject

Wasn't it meant to be even wider (20/21 lanes)?


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## ChrisZwolle

Yes, there used to be plans for a separate bus facility, that was supposed to be part of the motorway. This would've resulted in 14 lanes through the 'Aquaduct Veldzicht', but was scrapped for being superfluous.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A2 130 km/h*

Both parties of the governing coalition (liberals and labour) have announced that they want to raise the speed limit on A2 between Utrecht and Amsterdam to 130 km/h. 

The low speed limit on A2 is one of the worst annoyances on the Dutch motorway system. This über wide motorway has a speed limit of only 100 km/h and only a partial 130 km/h night limit. 


A2 Nieuwer Ter Aa-4 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*Wilma Mansveld*

Second-in-command Minister of Infrastructure & Environment Wilma Mansveld resigns today. The main reason is an official report about the failure of the high-speed rail train service. Her duties did not include road infrastructure items, though she was responsible for the environmental part.

Dutch government ministries have a minister and a 'secretary' who can also bear the title of 'minister' abroad. They have a nearly similar salary and responsibilities at the ministry are split between the secretary and minister. 

The current minister is Melanie Schultz. She is responsible for road infrastructure, spatial planning and water management / transport. The secretary Wilma Mansveld's responsibilities were railroads, aviation and environment. It is common in a coalition government that the minister and secretary are from two different parties. In this case Mansveld was from the Labour Party (PvdA), while Schultz is from the Liberals (VVD).

As railroads are a highly sensitive subject in Dutch politics, the job of secretary is sometimes said to be tougher than minister, due to the many debates and political problems with rail infrastructure. 

Mansveld was called the 'Annie Lennox of The Hague' due to her resemblence to the Scottish singer.


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## g.spinoza

^^ What do you mean by "failure of high speed trains"? Failure to create HS rails? Failure to attract customers? Technical failure?


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## ChrisZwolle

Mainly the Fyra train service: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyra

The official inquiry was very critical of previous cabinets, the entire parliament and NS (railways). This was a very long-lasting issue, started with the decision to build the high-speed rail in 1996. It has cost over € 11 billion and the Fyra service failed to deliver. 

Mansveld was not the only person under fire, but the only one that is currently in office. She was already under fire with other issues over the last couple of years (not related to the high-speed rail). So this was not really unexpected.

Sharon Dijksma is rumored as the new secretary of Infrastructure & Environment. She has more experience in such an office (it would be her third position as secretary of a ministry). Mansveld had no national experience prior to her appointment.


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## Suburbanist

Any chance Camiel Eurlings would return to the industry as an independent member of te cabinet?


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## ChrisZwolle

I'm not sure what you mean. Camiel Eurlings was CEO of KLM and minister of transport before that. He's a member of the CDA, which is not a governing party, and he's also not actively involved in politics today.


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## ChrisZwolle

An aerial photos of the 'Stichtse rotonde' or 'Sticht Roundabout' in Amersfoort, which used to be the starting point of the A28 motorway, until the Utrecht - Amersfoort segment opened in 1986. The roundabout has two lanes and still has the original early 1960s concrete slabs. A road runs around the roundabout.

It is named after the episcopal principality of Utrecht, which was known as Sticht Utrecht in Dutch. The Sticht Bridge of A27 from Almere towards Hilversum is also named for it.


Autumn flying by Vincent Kuipers, on Flickr


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## Kanadzie

ChrisZwolle said:


> Both parties of the governing coalition (liberals and labour) have announced that they want to raise the speed limit on A2 between Utrecht and Amsterdam to 130 km/h.
> 
> The low speed limit on A2 is one of the worst annoyances on the Dutch motorway system. This über wide motorway has a speed limit of only 100 km/h and only a partial 130 km/h night limit.
> 
> 
> A2 Nieuwer Ter Aa-4 by European Roads, on Flickr


It's curious... aside from the relative lack of housing / commercial development on the side of the road it could be an Toronto-area Ontario highway. With tempo 100, and terribly annoying :lol: Not a chance they would switch the signs to 130 :lol:

Do they have the same kind of issue with 5 lanes per direction with slow traffic on the more left lanes, faster traffic trying to sieve through the central lanes and general speed chaos?


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## Wilhem275

Kanadzie said:


> Do they have the same kind of issue with 5 lanes per direction with slow traffic on the more left lanes, faster traffic trying to sieve through the central lanes and general speed chaos?


I used it twice, once driving my RV and the second on a bus. Both were quite a nightmare, because most drivers were actually driving even _slower _than 100 and overtaking was impossible because traffic had a checkerboard pattern.

Basically you have a big and clumsy vehicle surrounded on all sides by a group of erratic flies that you must be careful not to hit...

The obvious temptation was to move to the left shoulder, reach warp speed and get out of that hell as fast as possible


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## Kanadzie

^^ You know it is really, really bad when you are driving RV and you are thinking, these other cars are so slow I want to pass! :lol:


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## Wilhem275

That's true :lol: I mean, it's a 1994 Transit with 100 HP, that thing can barely reach 110 :lol: The bus driver was driven mad by that traffic... we were already very late because from Den Haag traffic to Amsterdam was rerouted via Gouda and Utrecht, and every 10 km/h gain was immediately followed by someone slowing down for no reason...

The road was not even close to congestion, just erratic drivers. I hope the 130 limit will make them more "competitive".


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ The problem is the strict speed enforcement. This makes traffic less dynamic, causing the checkboard pattern driving of 1 km/h difference between 5 lanes. It feels like driving in slow-motion there.


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## Wilhem275

What is the % tolerance on speed checks in NL?


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## keokiracer

^^ It's 4km/h (after mandatory correction of 3% with a minimum of 3kms). So if you drive [email protected] on your GPS you wont get a fine, but if you hit 87, that's bad news for you. 3% rule (in this case the minimum of 3kms applies) and you get a VM004 for 4kms too fast sent to you.
In zones with 130km/h this margin of error is a lot tighter, you can get a ticket for driving 1km/h too fast (of course after the previously mentioned correction has been applied)


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## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ The problem is the strict speed enforcement. This makes traffic less dynamic, causing the checkboard pattern driving of 1 km/h difference between 5 lanes. It feels like driving in slow-motion there.


This is a problem on pretty much all the 80 zones too, no dynamic at all in traffic, just sleep inducing boring nothing. The only exception is the A20 ring r'dam north, which has so many exits and merging cars that it requires a bit of attention ( at least going eastwards, westwards is somehow less of a hassle usually). The A13 for example is also very sleep inducing.


I've had the (dis)pleasure of driving on the A2 quite often recently due to customers in Amsterdam. It's only what, 14 km's or so ? But out of frustration I always went through the whole zone at 106km/h ( the only thing to do when driving that tediously slow, is trying to keep your speed exactly on the limit of being fined, or reading emails, or whatever) and especially northwards when you pass the last checkpoint, I always end up flooring it and going 180-200 km/h until the exit I usually need to take ( A'dam Arena), southwards traffic often doesn't allow it but also, once you're on ring Utrecht, usually it's 130 ish instead of 100. :bash:


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## Koesj

snowdog said:


> I always end up flooring it and going 180-200 km/h until the exit I usually need to take ( A'dam Arena)


Maybe you should see a psychologist about it hno:


----------



## Aumgn

One could do some nice research on whether having a limit of 100 on this strech is actually safer than having a 130 limit, because of the fact that now, practically everyone is reading emails or doing other stuff while driving Utrecht-A'dam.


----------



## Slagathor

At the risk of appealing to Snowdog, can I just say that I resent the fact that I may have to do 50 an hour just because some blonde can't go without Whatsapp for five fvcking seconds?


----------



## keokiracer

snowdog said:


> I always end up flooring it and going 180-200 km/h until the exit I usually need to take ( A'dam Arena)


That's a bit dangerous though. 
Not as in dangerous driving-wise, but drivers-license-wise. I take it you also speed up a bit at every exit (the section control consists of 3 sections and at each exit you're between sections)?

I've driven there once, on the way to family in Hoorn. Roadworks on the Rotterdam Ring with quite the delays so that was not an option, so I got to bore myself to death between Utrecht and Amsterdam. On the way back I refused to take that route and just went A1-A27 (via Hilversum). And that's the route I'm taking over A2 everytime from now on.


----------



## radamfi

I was driving on the N57 through Zeeland yesterday and there was a sign saying "lichten aan ook overdag". Is it now a requirement to drive with headlights on in the daytime in the Netherlands, or just on the N57? Or is this just a recommendation for the N57 because of a particularly poor safety record, and not actual law?


----------



## MrAronymous

I think Zeeland gets quite foggy often, so that's probably why.


----------



## keokiracer

radamfi said:


> Or is this just a recommendation for the N57 because of a particularly poor safety record, and not actual law?


This.

Though it is taught in driving school now that you should as standard have your lights on during daylight, it's not in the law and you can't get fined for not doing so.


----------



## julesstoop

People like Snowdog are exactly the reason why we need section control. (In case anyone was wondering.)


----------



## keber

keokiracer said:


> So if you drive [email protected] on your GPS you wont get a fine, but if you hit 87, that's bad news for you.


How bad in Euro?

Beside that I find it curious that main political parties are deciding about a speed limit on a stretch of a motorway. This shouldn't be in the hands of politicians but traffic experts.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

keber said:


> Beside that I find it curious that main political parties are deciding about a speed limit on a stretch of a motorway. This shouldn't be in the hands of politicians but traffic experts.


I agree, but this section of motorway had a special arrangement. Back in the days when the expansion was planned, it was possible for lower governments to appeal and delay a motorway expansion project. So in exchange for not appealing, it was agreed that the speed limit would be lowered to 100 km/h. 

Nowadays this is not possible anymore.


----------



## keokiracer

keber said:


> How bad in Euro?


23 euros + 7 euros of administrative fees (9 euros starting January)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It has been reported that a 15 kilometer stretch of N15 has now been designated as A15 in the Port of Rotterdam. This shifts the A15 further west towards Maasvlakte.

That means A15 now starts at Exit 8 Oostvoorne (N218) instead of at Rozenburg. This stretch of expressway has only been rededicated to motorway status, no physical changes occurred along this stretch.

The westbound lanes will also open across the new Botlek Bridge tomorrow, 1 November.


----------



## MichiH

^^ Is there any exact date when the section was rededicated, 1st November?

*A15:* rededication Oostvoorne – Rozenburg 15km (2015) – ? – map


----------



## keokiracer

MichiH said:


> ^^ Is there any exact date when the section was rededicated, 1st November?
> 
> *A15:* rededication Oostvoorne – Rozenburg 15km (2015) – ? – map


It happened last night, so I'd put it on today (oct 31st)


----------



## KIWIKAAS

Good move. I always found it strange that that stretch remained N status while the road has been A grade for the last 9 or 10 years.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The N15 was built to a motorway profile, with regular shoulders along most of its length. The most substandard section is around the Suurhoff Bridge, which is basically a giant S-curve with no shoulders. 

Traffic is usually quite light west of the N57 interchange. It drops after each exit. Especially in this part of the Port of Rotterdam, where most industries are large but don't require that much staff, so there's only some more traffic when shifts end.


----------



## snowdog

julesstoop said:


> People like Snowdog are exactly the reason why we need section control. (In case anyone was wondering.)


why on earth would you want national speed limits on motorways, about half of the motorways in Germany are unlimited:

http://www.autobahnatlas-online.de/Limitkarte.pdf
http://www.autobahnatlas-online.de/LegendeLimit.pdf

And all is fine there, you can actually focus on driving instead of on some stupid limitation by stupid people who force their views/limitations on someone else.

I refuse to comply with some rules, a speed limit on motorways is one of them, it isn't the governments place to decide that imo.


> take it you also speed up a bit at every exit (the section control consists of 3 sections and at each exit you're between sections)?


Nope, flitsnav says it's 6 zones, can't be bothered to risk to find out tbh.


> Maybe you should see a psychologist about it


Because I refuse to conform to some nonsense like some stupid sheep ? Just because something is a law doesn't make it right ( I could name numerous examples from the past).

But anyhow, besides being to stubborn to comply to some nonsense, you have to make up for the lost time on that stretch somehow.


----------



## keokiracer

snowdog said:


> Nope, flitsnav says it's 6 zones, can't be bothered to risk to find out tbh.


Are you sure that you have the latest Flitsnav version then? Because I'm 100% sure there are only 3 sections (there used to be 6, but with the partial 130 and 100 during the night some sections aren't 'controllable' any more). Just so you know, Masterdam (a name that no one will know here but you do) does this on a regular basis and he's never received a fine in the section control there. See this video for example


----------



## snowdog

Hmm thanks, I didn't really read into that, so can just do 130 between the exit and onramp without being fined. That would save a lot of irritation!

Since the average speed checks on the A4 and the overall chaos on the roads ( A20, A13 and A4), the A13>A4 is a worse route to A'dam from R'dam than A20>A12>A2. Despite the horrible A2 stretch.


----------



## keokiracer

snowdog said:


> Hmm thanks, I didn't really read into that, so can just do 130 between the exit and onramp without being fined. That would save a lot of irritation!


Yep, just check as to which gantry the cameras are hooked onto  I'm 100% sure about Vinkeveen, a bit less sure about Breukelen. But I'm sure someone on Flitsservice could clear that up for you 
Same on the A4 btw, I've never overtaken so many people as on the A4 Leidschendam-Leiden as for some reason people seem to think that the section control continues all the way through Hoogmade or something like that


----------



## radamfi

Are there any statistics comparing accident rates where there are average speed cameras compared to other areas? I pass through average speed cameras a lot in the UK, especially where there are roadworks keeping the limit to 50 mph. I would suggest that it is easier to stick to the limit in these places without worrying too much about looking at the speedometer (not that I would recommend that), as all you have to do is go the same speed as everyone else.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Noord-Brabant*

North Brabant province published a plan for the improvement of mobility in the province (and partially also in Limburg province). 

Their wish list:

* ITS along the regional motorway and highway system. € 125 million
* A58 widening Eindhoven - Tilburg 2x3 + southern side of Breda 2x3. € 420 million
* A67 Leenderheide - Geldrop 2x3. € 60 million
* A67 Geldrop - Asten 2x3. € 135 million
* A2 Batadorp - De Hogt (west side of Eindhoven). Widening 3 lanes southbound. € 30 million
* A2 Leenderheide - Weert-Noord, possible widening. € 30 (initial funding, by far not enough to fund a widening to 2x3)
* N279 expansion projects. € 265 million

Plus a few small improvements, mainly interchange improvements along A67. 

Complete plan: € 1150 million, including € 395 million paid for by the provinces. 

The ITS project is a bit vague. It has a lot of fancy buzzwords like 'smart mobility' or 'intelligent' or 'smart roads', and some kind of 'innovative lane' along the to-be-widened A58.


----------



## Suburbanist

Yet no news whatsoever on building N65 into A65 :bash:


----------



## da_scotty

There are plans for the most troubled part around Vught, this in combination with the new free-flow/tunnels of the Den Bosch-Eindhoven/Tilburg Railway lines. Nothing definete yet though.


----------



## Suburbanist

da_scotty said:


> There are plans for the most troubled part around Vught, this in combination with the new free-flow/tunnels of the Den Bosch-Eindhoven/Tilburg Railway lines. Nothing definete yet though.


A-status is not the most important thing, grade-separated lanes are. Here is something I didn't understand: they spent a lot of money to upgrade N261 to expressway. That provides an access to Tilburg and, fully opened and coupled with the 2013-complet ring road, makes use of N65 a bit redundant for people departing from Tilbrg and going to 's-Hertogenbosch or points beyond. N65, however, is a more critical link because, if upgraded, could provide a free-flowing route from Nijmegen to Breda (and Belgium.

N65 has what I believe to be some of the most dangerous level crossing in Netherlands: https://goo.gl/maps/2UGjUkN52J42 (Google Street View)

Upgrading N65 will not be so easy, though, because there are several building very close to the ROW and some abutting it, contrary to the previous situation on N261 where the problem was only grade separation, not ROW.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9, Amstelveen*

A couple of aerial photos of A9 through the city of Amstelveen, just south of Amsterdam. This segment of A9, from Holendrecht (A2) to Badhoevedorp (A4) will be widened to 2x4 lanes. The average traffic is approximately 130,000 vehicles per day. 

The works are planned from 2019 to 2026, I'm not sure why it would take 7 years. A segment of A9 near the old center of Amstelveen will be built below grade. It was originally planned as a tunnel, but the municipality of Amstelveen could not provide the € 100 million it had pledged for the construction of the tunnel.


----------



## Jim856796

^^I'm betting that segment of the new below-grade A9 through the centre of Amstelveen may allow for a future covering-up with greenspace at a later date.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*speed limits*

19 more stretches of motorway will go up to 130 km/h in 2016. Most of these are 24/7 limited at 130 km/h. This eliminates some of the stretches where 130 is currently only allowed between 1900 and 0600 hours.

Starting 5 February 2016, these stretches will go up to 130 km/h.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15 Ressen - Zevenaar*

A draft environmental impact statement is expected soon on the A15 extension south of Arnhem. It will run from the Ressen motorway interchange to A12.

An overview:










1. Widening A15 Valburg (A50) - Ressen (A325): 2x3 lanes
2. new interchange A15 Bemmel
3. crossing over the Betuwe Route freight railroad
4. Bridge across the Pannerden Canal (Rhine)
5. semi-depressed curve near Groessen
6. crossing under the Arnhem - Oberhausen railroad
7. new interchange Duiven / Zevenaar
8. widening of A12 Duiven - Oud-Dijk (A18): 2x3 lanes
9. new motorway interchange Oudbroeken (A12/A15)
10. eliminating exit 29 Zevenaar
11. new interchange Zevenaar-Oost (east).


----------



## DSzumaher

This is my first time in the NL and this thread. I have a little knowledge about all Dutch, so I apologize for the mistakes, but it can at least be fun watching.

Not yet warm up, and already the _bouwplaats_ as badly as in Germany. 





Express lanes in Eindhoven.





If you liked it, maybe something else will come up.


----------



## Suburbanist

A2 is a nice road. Did you capture more videos?


----------



## GorbazTheDragon

Wow, this threw me back to when I lived in Zuidhorn (Groningen) as a child. After travelling to quite a lot of other places, I've been more and more impressed by the infrastructure of the Netherlands, especially the road and rail network.

Was visiting TU Delft earlier this month, and had a peek at the A4 Delft-Kethelplein section (sorry no pictures), quite an impressive project (bypasses the awkward set of lights at Plaspoelpolder for Den Haag-R'dam transit). Especially nice to see the last pieces of the puzzle being put together, and now moving to improvements to existing roads, like the A9 Badhoevedorp and A1 Muiden.

Quite a contrast to Chile, where I lived for 7 years.


----------



## Slagathor

The geography if Chile is infinitely more interesting though.


----------



## GorbazTheDragon

Hah, yeah true that. But unfortunately the chronic lack of national planning leads to quite a lot of wasted money and badly implemented projects.

I'd definitely have liked to see what the result of putting Dutch civil engineering and the more liberal spending in a place like Chile would be. That would make for some seriously impressive infrastructure. The only thing I can think of that comes close would be Japan.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ If the people in Chile were all Dutch they probably would have the west coast 20 km away from Australia by now :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A24 Blankenburg Link*

An overview of the A24 motorway that will link A15 and A20 west of Rotterdam.

The southern tunnel entrance will be pretty steep.


----------



## MrAronymous

All tunnel entrances look normal to me?
That sunken interchange looks really neat by the way.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ It goes down 31 meters within 560 meters at the southern portal. It is deeper than most other road tunnels, especially because it needs maximum depth quite close to the tunnel portal.

This is what the OTB (draft environmental impact assessment) says about it:
_Op de zuidoever is sprake van een steile helling. Ook is de helling in de verbindingsweg van de A24 (A20) naar de A15 (Ridderkerk) steil. Een minder steile helling kan echter niet worden gerealiseerd zonder impact op de bestaande kabels en leidingenstrook op de zuidoever of impact op de vaardiepte in Het Scheur. Aanpassingen aan de kabels en leidingen, waaronder een groot aantal pijpleidingen tussen Maasvlakte/Europoort en Botlek, in die strook leiden tot hoge kosten en grote uitvoeringsrisico’s. Daarom worden de hellingen niet gewijzigd en worden op de zuidoever kruipstroken toegepast om de snelheidsterugval van vrachtverkeer op de zuidoever te mitigeren._

It basically says there will be a steep grade at the southern tunnel portal, chiefly due the depth of the Scheur waterway and the location of numerous pipelines alongside the A15 corridor, which are too expensive and financially risky to move. A climbing lane will be constructed to mitigate the impact of slow trucks.











Here's a blast from the past, a timelapse video of the 'Delta Route' from Rotterdam to Vlissingen in 1969.


----------



## GorbazTheDragon

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ It goes down 31 meters within 560 meters at the southern portal.


It's not that ridiculously steep, still under 6% average gradient, and considering the total height change is only 31m it's hardly a big deal.

Then again I'd guess 3/4ths of The Netherlands is less than 31m above sea level, so it's a bit of a matter of perspective.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I thnk there is a misunderstanding. It will be a very deep *open* tunnel portal. The southern tunnel portal has a vertical section (walls) of 30 meters. That's much greater than any other tunnel in the Netherlands. 

To compare, the nearby Botlek Tunnel portal is only about 10 meters deep.









Or the Drecht Tunnel:


----------



## GorbazTheDragon

Ah, I see what you mean. My understanding from the OTB was simply the steep slope for vehicle traffic.

I think the cross bars will have a stabilising effect similar to a cut and cover system.

I don't think it will be too hard in engineering terms, just a wild guess they may not be able to use a TBM due to the slope, so they have to either cut and cover, or just leave it as a large open trench.


----------



## DSzumaher

Suburbanist said:


> Did you capture more videos?


Absolutely! Since you like previous videos, I'm posting more.

35 kilometres, which contains porous asphalt + reinforced concrete as pavement.
BTW, what is performed under _Ecoduct Slabroek_? Ramps for rescue services only?





The _Waalbrug_ with no visible changes.





Do you already replete, or still hungry?


----------



## da_scotty

Bus exit/entry lanes! The new regional hospital is on the left side of the road. With the new fast busses (line 305 2-4 hourly Oss-Eindhoven) stopping there, the bus can enter and exit at the ecoduct instead of making the detour through Nistelrode. (Look at the white/blue sign at 4.51-4.53).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15 Ressen - Zevenaar*

The draft environmental impact assessment / statement (EIA/EIS) for the A15 motorway extension to Zevenaar was published today.

There are no surprises in the design of the motorway. The new tolled motorway will be constructed with 2x2 lanes and runs east from the Ressen motorway interchange (A325) to the Oudbroeken motorway interchange (A12). A segment of A12 from Westervoort to the Oud-Dijk motorway interchange (A18) will be widened to 2x3 lanes. A segment of A15 from the Valburg motorway interchange (A50) to the Ressen motorway interchange (A325) will also be widened to 2x3 lanes. 

The design of the bridge across the Pannerden Canal (A Rhine River tributary) is not yet known, the contractor may choose the most favorable design in terms of cost and construction time. A circa 200 meter main span is expected, which suggests a cable-stayed bridge or perhaps an extradosed bridge (which would be a first in the Netherlands).

The bridge will be tolled. The tolls are needed to pay off a certain amount of the project cost. The toll rate is set at € 1.18 for cars and € 7.11 for trucks (2013 price level). Tolling will last for approximately 25 years, depending on usage (a higher usage means it will become untolled sooner, and a lower usage means it will be tolled longer). Interest rates may also impact the duration of the tolling period. Tolling will be entirely electronic like in Norway, Sweden and recently Italy.

The design of the Oudbroeken motorway interchange (A12/A15):


----------



## HarlingenHardest

Yesterday roadworks in my hometown Harlingen officially started when it comes to transforming the N31 in a 2x2 expressway. Now the road is constructed on a slope (ca. + 4), they will built the new N31 @ -4,6 towards ground level including aqueduct to pass the Van Harinxma canal grade-separated. The project should be finished in 2 years. 

It's the last part of ca. 2 kilometres 1x2 configuration between Zurich/Afsluitdijk and Drachten (connection with A7 towards Groningen).

For more info you can check n31 harlingen .nl


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Maasbracht - Geleen*

A notice has been published to initiate procedures for the widening of A2 between Het Vonderen motorway interchange (A73) and Kerensheide motorway interchange (A76) in Limburg province.

The basic plan is to widen the motorway to 2x3 lanes with shoulders. There are currently shoulder lanes that are open through much of the day due to the high volume of traffic. Traffic on A2 fluctuates around 90,000 - 95,000 vehicles per day on this corridor.

Already in 2005 a plan approval procedure was started. It initially explored an option of eight lanes, either as 2x4 or 4x2, but the cost was found to be too great, and a six lane configuration (2x3) was also found to be sufficient in both the near term and long term, as southern Limburg has a stagnating or even declining population. The plan approval procedure was aborted, instead, shoulder lanes were constructed in 2010 and 2011.

The projected cost is € 261 million (2015 price level). There is only one alternative, 2x3 lanes with shoulders. 2x4 is not considered anymore. The speed limit will be 130 km/h.

The cost is relatively high because the widening will be asymmetric. The center of the motorway will be shifted, which means all bridges need replacement or widening as well. This means it is possible to keep six lanes in operation during the construction period, greatly reducing congestion.

4 overpasses will be kept, 7 overpasses and 1 underpass will be replaced and 4 overpasses plus 1 underpass will be demolished and not be replaced. The motorway will be designed as a parkway with landscaped and treed roadsides.


----------



## Suburbanist

Speaking of it, what's the status of that Kerkrade "parkway belt" project?


----------



## MichiH

HarlingenHardest said:


> Yesterday roadworks in my hometown Harlingen *officially started* when it comes to transforming the N31 in a 2x2 expressway.


The same was already reported about one year ago...



ChrisZwolle said:


> Construction *formally started* yesterday, 10 December 2014, by unveiling the construction information sign. Completion is still planned for late 2017.


I think "officially" and "formally" is the same but please tell us what happened last year. Have you seen any construction works? Clearance, bridge construction,...

*N31:* Midlum – south of Harlingen 3km (December 2014 to Late 2017) – project – map


----------



## GorbazTheDragon

Looks pretty good, should get rid of the last bottleneck on the Noord Holland-North Friesland route.

Am I correct in assuming they are not planning to upgrade this to a motorway? Shouldn't make a considerable difference in traffic capacity, but I'd assume they will use a low speed limit for that area anyway to reduce the noise.

EDIT: Just checked the site said 100km/h, guess they might use some kind of sound barriers in the shallower portions.


----------



## HarlingenHardest

MichiH said:


> The same was already reported about one year ago...
> 
> 
> 
> I think "officially" and "formally" is the same but please tell us what happened last year. Have you seen any construction works? Clearance, bridge construction,...
> 
> *N31:* Midlum – south of Harlingen 3km (December 2014 to Late 2017) –


Actually roadworks had to be started earlier on, but afterwards the (local) authorities decide to fullfill the order in the shape of a Design & Construct contract. Summarizing: in august last year the contractor became known. Between then and now the contractor had time to implement their plans and only small things like removing cables and pipes happened. The day before yesterday was the start of the "real roadworks." So now you can see the progression in the field.


----------



## DSzumaher

For more hungry...

A former bottleneck near Arnhem.





The shoulder standing to Apeldoorn.





The last 32 km of the A50 without _signalering_.





Do not usually post urban drives here, but this way I want to greet someone. We know who he is.
Peekaboo!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Familiar routes  I've driven some of that yesterday (Central Ring Road and A50).

You will notice that Dutch street names are really something else. Especially in post-1960s developments, streets are not named like 'rue' or 'calle' or 'ulica' or 'street', but after objects. Many street names are not really recognizable as such. In Zwolle you'll have street names like 'Munterkamp' or 'Marterveld' or 'Oeverzegge' or 'Bultkroos'. They just name streets after encyclopedic entries it seems.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Drachtsterweg, Leeuwarden*

An aerial photo of the Drachtsterweg project in Leeuwarden. The interchange opened just recently, while construction at the aquaduct is still ongoing.


----------



## Surel

Kanadzie said:


> Just think of your own experience...
> 
> When I drive 140 km/h or faster, I have never had an accident, I've never even seen an accident of other vehicles ever
> 
> When I drive less than 40 km/h then there are crashes everywhere around and into me too!
> 
> Someone just rear-ended me on a motorway last week... I was rolling maybe 10 km/h in a traffic jam...


My experience was a car driving 90 km/h hit me at 60 km/h . I am quite glad it did not drive 100 km/h...

It was not their fault tbh.

I just say it is all relative. I am for high speeds on motorways. But there are other places where I don't mind strict speed limits and speed limiting infrastructure. E.g. the speed limits inside the city was reduced from 60 km/h to 50 km/h in Czech Republic some 15-20? years ago. It would seem a small change but it had a big impact on the safety chances of the pedestrians. These changes happened in many countries. The speed limits on highways were also not always present everywhere. I guess small changes, infrastructure adjustment and evaluation over time are a good approach.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ But if you drove 100 km/h you would be even more glad! 

Is it reasonable to say "big impact" from 60 to 50? Probably before driver went 70 and today is also driving 70...


----------



## Suburbanist

Streets and controlled-access highways are not comparable. In controlled-access highways, drivers have (by design) an expectation of no pedestrians jumping in front of the place, no cars parallel-parking, no bicycles, no cars slowly entering the ROW at 90-degree angle with obstructed views...


----------



## albert0123

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ I know it is a minor issue, but being an official gov't study map overlay it shocks me how the base map is so outdated! It shows railway lines that must had been closed in the 1980s.]
> 
> Which railway is closed according to you? To me the overlay map is accurate.


----------



## UnequalSine

^^

Many of the old harbour-lines (cargo) are closed down and/or completely removed (e.g. Katendrecht, Rotterdam South, Merwehaven). Also, the old rail-section (between the A20 and former station Hofplein) of the Hofpleinlijn (passenger) is still included in the map. And I'm pretty sure there won't be any train running down those tracks .. since the bridge across the A20 motorway has been demolished years ago. I guess there are other outdated examples to be found on the map, besides the ones I just stated.


----------



## da_scotty

It's just... a map... to indicate something...general, not..official...documents *sigh*


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A16 Rotterdam*

A total of 256 official comments were put in by the public on the draft environmental impact assessment of the A16 extension on the north side of Rotterdam. The GreenLeft party also compiled 8,300 reactions on the d-EIA, together with 2,000 signatures. They will be considered an official comment too.

It is one of two projects that resulted in a large volume of comments, the other being the A24 motorway. The volume of comments doesn't really delay the plan approval procedure, as nearly all such comments are identical and not all comments would have to be responded to individually. They can be bundled into a single response.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Diemen*

A 1.5 year timelapse video of the construction of the three-span box girder bridge across the Amsterdam-Rhine Canal near Diemen, just outside of Amsterdam. It will be a 9 lane bridge that carries traffic from A1 to A9 and vice versa.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N381 Appelscha*

The reconstructed N381 around Appelscha was officially inaugurated today as a super two expressway with a 100 km/h speed limit and grade-separated interchanges. It runs from the south side of Oosterwolde to the Drenthe provincial border, connecting to the pre-existing N381 super two expressway towards Emmen. The project is part to upgrade the N381 in Friesland province.









http://www.nieuweooststellingwerver...we-n381-wordt-vrijdag-feestelijk-geopend.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N235 Amsterdam - Purmerend*

The reversible bus lane along N235 between Het Schouw and Ilpendam will be extended into Purmerend. This means buses don't have to merge with traffic at Ilpendam anymore. The N235 congestion is reported to be some of the worst of N-roads in the region due to bus priorities. The new reversible bus lane is planned to open by the end of 2017. The average traffic on the regular standard two-lane road is 18,000 vehicles per day.


----------



## Des

ChrisZwolle said:


> The reversible bus lane along N235 between Het Schouw and Ilpendam will be extended into Purmerend. This means buses don't have to merge with traffic at Ilpendam anymore. The N235 congestion is reported to be some of the worst of N-roads in the region due to bus priorities. The new reversible bus lane is planned to open by the end of 2017. The average traffic on the regular standard two-lane road is 18,000 vehicles per day.


Wouldnt it make more sense to just add a regular reversible lane? I reckon 90% of those 18,000 cars drive Southbound between 7-9 in the morning and Northbound between 5-7 in the evening.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They want to prioritize public transport in that corridor. Commuters are supposed to take the motorway, but A7 is frequently congested. In the morning it is often one of the earliest traffic jams to develop after 6 a.m. 

A new shoulder lane on A7 is planned to open in a week or so. There will be 3 lanes during rush hour from Purmerend-Zuid through the Zaandam motorway interchange, onto A8.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A6 Almere*

The new Holland Bridge opened to traffic this morning, two days ahead of schedule. The new bridge has 4 lanes and carries northbound traffic. It is 354 meters long and 33 meters wide. It's part of the massive Schiphol-Amsterdam-Almere project to widen all motorways east and south of Amsterdam.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N381 Drachten - Appelscha*

The Donkerbroek - Oosterwolde segment of N381 opened to traffic today as a super two expressway. This completes the widening and realignment between Drachten and Oosterwolde. There is now 10 kilometers of four-lane, divided highway with full grade-separation between Drachten and Donkerbroek and 4 km super two between Donkerbroek and Oosterwolde-North 


However the completion of the N381 widening around Oosterwolde is delayed by another half year. The reason is a change in design of an underpass along N381. It was recently decided to extend the four-lane segment around Oosterwolde, but the underpass was originally designed for two lanes. This needs to be changed, causing the delay. 

The project was already delayed by half a year due to a dispute between the province and the contractor about the technical design. It was originally planned to open the whole N381 by December 2015, that will now be late 2016.

This means that when N381 around Oosterwolde will be widened from two to four lanes in 2018, the underpass does not have to be changed again, saving money.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9, Amsterdam*

5 bridges over A9 in Amsterdam were demolished this weekend. It's part of a large widening project to put A9 in a 3 kilometer long tunnel. The motorway will be widened from 4 lanes plus shoulder lanes to 9 lanes.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Diemen*

The new 9 lane bridge across the Amsterdam-Rhine Canal is rapidly approaching completion. However it will likely not be in (full) service until the A9 tunnel in Amsterdam is completed, which is quite some years away. It's the longest land tunnel in the Netherlands so far, with 5 tubes with 11 lanes.


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## HarlingenHardest

Today I made some pictures of the roadworks near my hometown Harlingen. They're building an aqueduct at the moment. You can view the photos by clicking the link below:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/krusefahrer/albums/72157659573944593

This morning they were placing the temporary sheet pile walls.


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## Suburbanist

Is there some official policy or guideline on which bodies of water warrant extensive use of acquaducts, and which can be crosses using regular bridges? 

I was wondering if they every considered a super-wide acquaduct for the A9 project, and if in the past tall bridges were considered to cross the IJ in Amsterdam.


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## ChrisZwolle

Some waterways are designated as a _staande mastroute_ or standing mast route in English. These waterways need a clearance up to 30 meters, either with movable bridges, aquaducts or very high fixed bridges (which have never been built). 

The official one and only standing mast route runs from south of Rotterdam to Delfzijl (map) but there are many other waterways with a lot of sail boats. It's mainly dependent on the number of bridge openings, intensity of boating and cost if they construct an aquaduct. Friesland province has a large boating community so they also have a lot of aquaducts.

Waterways used for commercial shipping usually only require the so-called Rhine shipping clearance of 9.10 meters above the highest seasonal water levels. Most fixed bridges in the Netherlands use this clearance, for instance nearly all bridges across the major rivers have a 9.10 m minimum clearance.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Victory Boogie Woogie Tunnel, The Hague*

The main tunneling contract for the 'Rotterdamsebaan' project in The Hague has been awarded to BAM. The contract value is € 301 million.

The name of the tunnel has also been revealed, the Victory Boogie Woogie Tunnel nuts named after the the last painting by Mondriaan.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Nijmegen*

The bridges in the city of Nijmegen. They inaugurated a new channel for the Waal River yesterday, that will reduce the impact of flooding in the city. The existing bridges needed to be reconstructed for the new channel of the Waal. 










Foreground: Waal River Bridge (N325), built 1936
Middle: Railroad Bridge
Background: 'De Oversteek', opened 2013
Far background: Tacitus Bridge (A50), opened 1976 / 2013.

'De Oversteek', opened 2013.


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## UnequalSine

ChrisZwolle said:


> The name of the tunnel has also been revealed, the *Victory Boogie Woogie Tunnel* nuts named after the the last painting by Mondriaan.


I would love to hear that in a traffic update on the radio :nuts:


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## Suburbanist

Will they transform that middle island in Nijmegen into some park or a thing like that?


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## da_scotty

Suburbanist said:


> Will they transform that middle island in Nijmegen into some park or a thing like that?


Festival/Eventterain at first, residential later.
The side-channel is also looked as at prime-realestate for all the watersport-based sports in the area. Both rowing clubs for example are very eager to move over there, as they curently use the busy shipping channel.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N305 Almere - Dronten*

A groundbreaking ceremony has been held for the twinning of provincial road N305 in Flevoland province. It will extend the four-lane segment of N305 from Zeewolde to the N302 intersection.


















_Google Maps erroneously classifies N305 as an expressway while it is in fact a 100 km/h two-lane / partially four-lane road without grade-separation_

Meanwhile, plans to construct the 'N30' has been postponed indefinitely. It was planned as a major route from Almere to Nijkerk, but the east side of Almere isn't growing as quickly and the N305-N302 route via Harderwijk has now been designated as the preferred route from Almere to A28.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Stadsbaan Tunnel, Utrecht*

The Stadsbaan Tunnel opened to traffic on 1 December in the city of Utrecht. It is located directly beside the Leidsche Rijn Tunnel (A2), but is shorter, the length is quoted as 490 or 495 meters. It is one of two tunnels in the Netherlands with the most restrictive tunnel category E.

The new tunnel has two tubes, with 4 lanes, but only 3 for general traffic, the right lane in the southbound tube is separated by pylons and a wall and is only for trucks supplying an underground distribution center in Leidsche Rijn. 










The truck access tube:


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## Wilhem275

Linguistic question.
In the far and unknown region that lies on the wrong side of the IJssel    I see many town/village names like Almelo, Hengelo, Harculo, Ruurlo, Groenlo... and many more. There's even a small Getelo on the German side.
What is the origin/meaning of that _-lo_ particle?

-dam, -burg, -wijk, -dorf are easy to trace, but I can't get the -lo. In the German part there are not even similiar names.


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## ChrisZwolle

Dutch Wikipedia has the answer  https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/-loo

It means a type of broadleaf forest.


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## Wilhem275

Fantastic, they even made a complete list :lol: Probably the most famous, in the end, is Waterloo (although the etymology is not sure).

It's weird that there's nothing that appears related to that, on the German side. But there might had been linguistic reforms.

Now I can show off with my friends from Almelo


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## MichiH

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Donkerbroek - Oosterwolde segment of N381 opened to traffic today as a super two expressway. This completes the widening and realignment between Drachten and Oosterwolde. There is now 10 kilometers of four-lane, divided highway with full grade-separation between Drachten and Donkerbroek and 4 km super two between Donkerbroek and Oosterwolde-North
> 
> 
> However the completion of the N381 widening around Oosterwolde is delayed by another half year. The reason is a change in design of an underpass along N381. It was recently decided to extend the four-lane segment around Oosterwolde, but the underpass was originally designed for two lanes. This needs to be changed, causing the delay.
> 
> The project was already delayed by half a year due to a dispute between the province and the contractor about the technical design. It was originally planned to open the whole N381 by December 2015, that will now be late 2016.
> 
> This means that when N381 around Oosterwolde will be widened from two to four lanes in 2018, the underpass does not have to be changed again, saving money.


What's about the upgrade to 4 lanes just south of Drachten? It was expected to be opened in December. Is it also delayed to late 2016?

*N381:* Drachten (A7) – Wijnjewoude 5.0km (May 2014 to December 2015) – ? – map



ChrisZwolle said:


> Construction officially started on the N381 upgrade between Drachten and Appelscha. The N381 will be upgraded to expressway standards. The new speed limit will be 100 km/h. It will feature 2x2 lanes with interchanges from A7 to Donkerbroek, and single carriageway to the border with Drenthe province.
> 
> Completion is planned in December 2015.


Only a 5.5km section was opened earlier this year:



ChrisZwolle said:


> The new alignment of the N381 expressway partially opened to traffic yesterday in Friesland province. It runs from Wijnjewoude to Donkerbroek (circa 5.5 km).


----------



## Muttie

When will the A4 to Schiedam open?


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## MichiH

^^ *A4:* Delft – Schiedam-North 7km (April 2012 to 18th December 2015) – project – map

Please refer to the link in my signature...


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## UnequalSine

Well, there are some troubles with keeping water out of the open tunnel, and this might delay the opening. The responsible Minister already stated the opening might be delayed to late December or January.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Schiedam*

An aerial photo of the Kethelplein motorway interchange (A4/A15) and the Kethel Tunnel as part of the A4 Delft - Schiedam extension.










More photos: http://defotograaf.eu/blog/a4-delft-schiedam-9/


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## ChrisZwolle

UnequalSine said:


> Well, there are some troubles with keeping water out of the open tunnel, and this might delay the opening. The responsible Minister already stated the opening might be delayed to late December or January.


The official position is that it will open 'around New Year's'. It will very likely not open on 18 December, but apparently a delay of 3 months as is reported by some anti-A4 groups seems unlikely at this moment. 

In contrast to what some groups are saying, the tunnel itself is not leaking. This is simply not possible because the tunnel is located at-grade, above the water table. However, the segment of A4 north of the Kethel Tunnel is built in a trench. They installed a sheet piling with bentonite that was expected to leak in the order of 400 m³/day, for which a permit was issued by the water board. However they found out it was leaking more than expected, earlier in the range of 2600 m³/day, which has been reduced to around 1100 m³/*day* since.

Technically these leaks are not problematic as they can pump it away. For instance, they pumped around 1200 m³ per *hour* for the A2 tunnel project in Maastricht.


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## Wilhem275

An average of 1800 l/min at its maximum (now 760), not to be ignored but also not a big deal. Probably the issue is protecting the water source, more than a danger in the trench.

Anyway, there are still anti-A4 groups active? Pretty pointless now


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## ChrisZwolle

*A7/A8 Purmerend - Amsterdam*

The new and extended shoulder lanes along A7 and A8 opened to traffic today. Construction took just over 3 months and included a complete repaving of the motorway. The cost was € 25 million. 

The northbound shoulder lane was extended onto A8 and was reportedly open since last Saturday. A new southbound shoulder lane was built from Purmerend onto A8, through the Zaandam motorway interchange. It opened to traffic this afternoon at 5 p.m. 

The southbound traffic jam on A7 is one of the worst bottlenecks in the Netherlands. It's often the first traffic jam to be reported in the morning traffic information, just after 6 a.m. 










It's a temporary solution, a long-term plan involves a completely reconstructed A7-A8 corridor, with A8 being widened to 2x6 lanes and A7 to 2x4 lanes to Purmerend, and a complete reconstruction of the Zaandam cloverleaf, making Purmerend - Amsterdam and vice versa the 'through' direction for traffic. Plans are still in early development and likely won't take place untill well after 2020.


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## Des

Thanks Chris! Do you have any news about the A8 to A9 extension?


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## renevisscher

ChrisZwolle said:


> The northbound shoulder lane was extended onto A8 and was reportedly open since last Saturday.


 I already saw it opened last Friday afternoon.


ChrisZwolle said:


> A new southbound shoulder lane was built from Purmerend onto A8, through the Zaandam motorway interchange. It opened to traffic this afternoon at 5 p.m.


 It was still closed at 17.30 yesterday, but thats probebly because of it beeing the counter rushhour trafic direction at the time.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A8-A9 link*



Des said:


> Thanks Chris! Do you have any news about the A8 to A9 extension?


There has been little news about the A8-A9 link in recent months. They are currently still in the planning / research phase. The preferred alternative is expected to be selected by April 2016. Construction won't begin until 2018 or later.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*

The opening permit for the Kethel Tunnel has been issued today. This means the tunnel is found safe and ready for traffic operations. Normally this would mean the A4 could open to traffic immediately, but there is a run / open day planned for 12 December and they want to wait until the water board issues a permit for the pumping operations, due to the greater than expected leakage of the trench segment. The pumping permit is expected within 1 or 2 weeks.


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## MichiH

MichiH said:


> What's about the upgrade to 4 lanes just south of Drachten? It was expected to be opened in December. Is it also delayed to late 2016?
> 
> *N381:* Drachten (A7) – Wijnjewoude 5.0km (May 2014 to December 2015) – ? – map
> 
> Only a 5.5km section was opened earlier this year:


Does anyone have info about this project?


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## ChrisZwolle

It opened on 30 November: http://www.n381.nl/606/omzetting-verkeer-donkerbroek-oosterwolde-nanningaweg/

_Sinds vanmorgen rijdt het verkeer tussen Drachten en Donkerbroek over de dubbelbaans weg._

Dubbelbaans = dual carriageway. 

I haven't seen any photos of the dual carriageway N381 though.


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## Penn's Woods

UnequalSine said:


> I would love to hear that in a traffic update on the radio :nuts:


Especially with the Dutch pronunciation of those Gs. (Bookhie Wookhie)


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## ChrisZwolle

*air quality*

The Netherlands has an air quality programme called the '_Nationaal Samenwerkingsprogramma Luchtkwaliteit_' (NSL) or National Air Quality Cooperation Programme. It started in 2009 to improve air quality by various measures.

The programme is quite succesful. When implemented in 2009, 1,100 kilometers of roadsides exceeded the norms for NO2 (nitrogen dioxide). This has been significantly reduced to 30 km in 2014 and 12 km in 2015. The remaining air quality bottlenecks are a few busy inner city streets and some roads around intensive livestock farming. 

There is also some road mileage where PM10 (particle) norms are exceeded. The main cause however, is not traffic, but their location near intensive livestock farming.

It's important to note that air quality models are based on actual emissions, not theoretical emission standards, so issues like the Volkswagen emission scandal doesn't affect air quality modeling.


----------



## Penn's Woods

It occurs to me, that new bit of the A4 would have been handy for me the first Sunday in July, when I drove from A'dam to Schouwen Duiveland to catch the Tour de France. As it was, I did A4, A13, A20, A16, A15 to Spijkenisse, through Hellevoetsluis, then the N57 as far as I could get (Burgh-Haamstede...the bridge to Neeltje Jans was closed for the Tour.)

I didn't actually see the race; it started pouring. I caught it the next day in Antwerp and again in Normandy.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N62, Zeeland*

Aerial photos of the recently upgraded N62 in Zeeland province, southwest of Goes. 

1. N62 looking north towards A58. Note the very wide median.









2. 'knooppunt Stelleplas' A58 / N62.









3. Near the N254 intersection.


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## peezet

ChrisZwolle said:


> 2. 'knooppunt Stelleplas' A58 / N62.


I still wonder why they decided to include two residential houses in the middle of this 'knooppunt'.


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## ChrisZwolle

The houses existed before the interchange was reconstructed. It was originally a partial cloverleaf, where N62 continued as N664 north of A58. These people have always lived right beside the motorway. 

Stelleplas is reportedly an official 'knooppunt', not just an 'afrit'. So it has the same status as 'Markiezaat' or 'Galder'. It is policy to name all free-flowing interchanges between roads built to certain standards. So you can expect more new names, such as 'knooppunt Gooimeer' (A6/N702) in Almere.


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## Slagathor

Am I the only one who only sees a big barn in that picture?


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## keokiracer

There's a house hidden behind the trees next to that barn. The other house is in that big set of trees within the turbine-loop. It's better visible on GMaps


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## peezet

ChrisZwolle said:


> The houses existed before the interchange was reconstructed. It was originally a partial cloverleaf, where N62 continued as N664 north of A58. These people have always lived right beside the motorway.



We did that in the '60's in Culemborg A2 for example. Not nowadays I thought.


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## Sunfuns

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Netherlands has an air quality programme called the '_Nationaal Samenwerkingsprogramma Luchtkwaliteit_' (NSL) or National Air Quality Cooperation Programme. It started in 2009 to improve air quality by various measures.
> 
> The programme is quite succesful. When implemented in 2009, 1,100 kilometers of roadsides exceeded the norms for NO2 (nitrogen dioxide). This has been significantly reduced to 30 km in 2014 and 12 km in 2015. The remaining air quality bottlenecks are a few busy inner city streets and some roads around intensive livestock farming.


What was actually done to achieve such a dramatic effect?


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## ChrisZwolle

NO2 concentrations along motorways are mostly the result of diesel engines. As the euro emission standards advanced for both trucks and passenger cars, the emission of NO2 was also reduced. 

It's also notable that diesel cars are not as common in the Netherlands as they are in Belgium or France. 

Another factor was to reduce emissions of PM10 from agriculture, poultry farming in particular, which cause strong peaks of PM10 concentrations in their areas. They also introduced subsidies for the installation of particle filters in diesel cars. Some municipalities also improved traffic signals and introduced cleaner buses.

The effect is not as dramatic as it sounds, going from 1100 > 12 km. The Netherlands has over 100,000 kilometers of road, so before the programme was introduced, already some 99% met the norms.


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## Surel

My Czech driver's license was nearing the expiration date, so I asked for the renewal. As I live in the Netherlands, I should get the Dutch driver's license.

I went to the city hall, filled the form, paid the money, gave them the photo etc..

Now, I got a letter from the Dutch driver's license authority institution, that I need to send them another form with an Statement of Health to get af Certification of Fitness and pay another 8 Euro for this form.

What a nonsense, clearly against the EU rules, the Dutch don't have to do it, so neither do I. The question is whether this is a problem by design, or the authority just ignores the law in general, or made a mistake in my case. It would not be the first case that I run into something like that in the Netherlands.

I am without my license already a week, I had to give it in, and I see that this will make it all take extra time. I hope that it will resolve before Christmas.


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## Suburbanist

Surel said:


> My Czech driver's license was nearing the expiration date, so I asked for the renewal. As I live in the Netherlands, I should get the Dutch driver's license.
> 
> I went to the city hall, filled the form, paid the money, gave them the photo etc..
> 
> Now, I got a letter from the Dutch driver's license authority institution, that I need to send them another form with an Statement of Health to get af Certification of Fitness and pay another 8 Euro for this form.
> 
> What a nonsense, clearly against the EU rules, the Dutch don't have to do it, so neither do I. The question is whether this is a problem by design, or the authority just ignores the law in general, or made a mistake in my case. It would not be the first case that I run into something like that in the Netherlands.
> 
> I am without my license already a week, I had to give it in, and I see that this will make it all take extra time. I hope that it will resolve before Christmas.


I exchanged my Italian driver's license (still with years of validity ahead) for a Dutch one. They did not require any health certificate or examination. They just took my old license, and then gave me a Dutch one 7 days later (and a temporary receipt in the meantime so I could drive within Netherlands).


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## Surel

Suburbanist said:


> I exchanged my Italian driver's license (still with years of validity ahead) for a Dutch one. They did not require any health certificate or examination. They just took my old license, and then gave me a Dutch one 7 days later (and a temporary receipt in the meantime so I could drive within Netherlands).


I guess that's the difference in treatment that you get when being from Italy or from the Czech Republic....


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## Suburbanist

Surel said:


> I guess that's the difference in treatment that you get when being from Italy or from the Czech Republic....


Didn't you ask about those regulations? I had a minor problem with something else once, brought a printed copy of the thing, they fixed it (after some wrangling).

Do you fit some of the criteria there, such as a shorter driver's license validy, changing categories etc?

I heard it is better to change your license sooner, before it expires. That is what I did then.


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## Surel

Suburbanist said:


> Didn't you ask about those regulations? I had a minor problem with something else once, brought a printed copy of the thing, they fixed it (after some wrangling).
> 
> Do you fit some of the criteria there, such as a shorter driver's license validy, changing categories etc?
> 
> I heard it is better to change your license sooner, before it expires. That is what I did then.


It is not the problem of the city hall this time. They did it the way it should be done in my case because I don't fall under any special criteria. I asked at the city hall specific whether I need to fill any other form, they said that no.

It is RDW mess up. I think that that someone doesn't know that the CZ is in the EU or some other mess up. I will call them and hopefully it will get resolved.

They also send me a waiver for the foreign driving license, suggesting that I should waive my license groups if I don't want to send them the Health Statement. Which is pretty crazy, since I got only the the group B. :nuts: But maybe they plan on giving me A and BE, what do I know... :lol:


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## Slagathor

Surel said:


> I guess that's the difference in treatment that you get when being from Italy or from the Czech Republic....


That seems very doubtful considering the image of Italy in the Netherlands. More likely your application just crossed the desk of a particularly nasty civil servant with a small *****. Bad luck, mate. Can happen to anyone.


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## Surel

Slagathor said:


> That seems very doubtful considering the image of Italy in the Netherlands. More likely your application just crossed the desk of a particularly nasty civil servant with a small *****. Bad luck, mate. Can happen to anyone.


Well, they at least know that Italy is a country, and where it is, including that it is in the EU.

Which is too much to expect in the case of CZ, too small, too irrelevant . Actually, when you say Prague, you will get much higher success rate. I guess they should put it on forms as well. .


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## Penn's Woods

Surel said:


> My Czech driver's license was nearing the expiration date, so I asked for the renewal. As I live in the Netherlands, I should get the Dutch driver's license.
> 
> I went to the city hall, filled the form, paid the money, gave them the photo etc..
> 
> Now, I got a letter from the Dutch driver's license authority institution, that I need to send them another form with an Statement of Health to get af Certification of Fitness and pay another 8 Euro for this form.
> 
> What a nonsense, clearly against the EU rules, the Dutch don't have to do it, so neither do I. The question is whether this is a problem by design, or the authority just ignores the law in general, or made a mistake in my case. It would not be the first case that I run into something like that in the Netherlands.
> 
> I am without my license already a week, I had to give it in, and I see that this will make it all take extra time. I hope that it will resolve before Christmas.


Out of curiosity, are you a Czech citizen? If so, could you have gotten a Czech license even though you're living outside the country, or do you have to get a Dutch one?


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## Surel

Penn's Woods said:


> Out of curiosity, are you a Czech citizen? If so, could you have gotten a Czech license even though you're living outside the country, or do you have to get a Dutch one?


Roadside rest area.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*

Some photos of the A4 Delft - Schiedam open day:



Michiel said:


> Vandaag was er een open dag bij de A4, helaas was het weer een stuk slechter dan de vorige keer. Deze keer kon je wel het hele trace bezoeken. Ik was er aan het einde van de openstelling, vandaar dat het erg rustig is op de foto's. Bovendien was het gaan regenen.
> 
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## HarlingenHardest

Some dronepics which were made last friday in Harlingen. Progress photos of the N31 project.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A15, Rotterdam*

An aerial photo of the new Botlek Bridge, which is now in full motorway operation. As you can see the rail component is not yet completed.










The Benelux motorway interchange (A4/A15)









More photos: http://defotograaf.eu/blog/a15-mava/


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## Suburbanist

Considering the previous (2011) situation with A4 gaps in Delft and in Zeeland, and now with these sectors all opened, how much traffic diversion between Den Haag and Antwerp can be expected 
from A13=>A20=>A16=>E19 (Be.)
to A4=>A15>=A20=>A4=>A12 (Be.)?


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## MichiH

ChrisZwolle said:


> It opened on 30 November: http://www.n381.nl/606/omzetting-verkeer-donkerbroek-oosterwolde-nanningaweg/
> 
> _Sinds vanmorgen rijdt het verkeer tussen Drachten en Donkerbroek over de dubbelbaans weg._
> 
> Dubbelbaans = dual carriageway.
> 
> I haven't seen any photos of the dual carriageway N381 though.


If I got you right, you are not sure if it has expressway standard, you're not sure if there's a median and if it's grade-separated. If we would get info that it's not expressway standard, I would remove the project from my list.


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ No that's incorrect. Drachten - Donkerbroek is definitely a grade-separated dual carriageway. However, I'm not sure if it is now in full 2x2 operation. They first built a new carriageway alongside the existing road, and then rebuilt the existing one (from Drachten to Wijnjewoude, from Wijnjewoude to Donkerbroek there is a new alignment). There hasn't been a press release stating both carriageways are open to traffic.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N381 Appelscha - Drachten*

I was curious about the new N381, so I decided to take a little trip to there. It was nice weather to shoot some photos, normally I don't take many photos during the winter while driving. 

1. The Drenthe-Friesland provincial border. The N381 around Appelscha has been widened to modern standards for a single carriageway express road. The Drenthe segment already had these standards.

N381-1 by European Roads, on Flickr

2. The new Appelscha interchange.

N381-4 by European Roads, on Flickr

3. N381 runs through a national park here (Drents-Friese Wold).

N381-5 by European Roads, on Flickr

4. The new Elsloo interchange.

N381-6 by European Roads, on Flickr

5. The Terwisscha underpass, part of the Elsloo interchange.

N381-9 by European Roads, on Flickr

6. The Oosterwolde-south interchange is still under construction and will be for a while from the looks of it. They built a temporary oval roundabout around the construction site. It's an interesting solution that keeps traffic flowing.

N381-12 by European Roads, on Flickr

7. The northern part of the oval roundabout or 'ovatonde'.

N381-13 by European Roads, on Flickr

8. Around Oosterwolde.

N381-14 by European Roads, on Flickr

9. The Oosterwolde-north interchange, which is still half under construction.

N381-16 by European Roads, on Flickr

10. Between Oosterwolde and Donkerbroek.

N381-19 by European Roads, on Flickr

11. The Donkerbroek interchange.

N381-22 by European Roads, on Flickr

12. The four-lane segment starts immediately after the Donkerbroek interchange underpass.

N381-24 by European Roads, on Flickr

13. One of three 'bat hop-overs' along N381.

N381-25 by European Roads, on Flickr

14. Another bat hop-over. Bats use tree lines for navigation, the idea is that they will stay high enough over the expressway to prevent them becoming a roadkill.

N381-27 by European Roads, on Flickr

15. The Wijnjewoude interchange.

N381-30 by European Roads, on Flickr

16. Another bat hop-over. The expressway follows the original N381 alignment between Wijnjewoude and Drachten.

N381-32 by European Roads, on Flickr

17. The Ureterp interchange. This is where the original 2x2 segment ended.

N381-35 by European Roads, on Flickr

18. The cloverleaf between N31, N381 and A7.

N381-37 by European Roads, on Flickr

19. I turned off to follow A7 towards Heerenveen.

N381-39 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## Penn's Woods

Surel said:


> Roadside rest area.


Haven't been in there in months. They're crazy in there. :jk:

Ahem, sorry. Good news about the A4.


----------



## vespafrederic

ChrisZwolle said:


> Some photos of the A4 Delft - Schiedam open day:


Hi Chris!

Are there any news finishing A4 between Benelux Interchange and Klaaswaal? It would make A4 fully completed.


----------



## belerophon

ChrisZwolle said:


> Some photos of the A4 Delft - Schiedam open day:


At Foto No4 "Zuidkade viaduct" is a sign on the right side. I don't get its meaning. May you explain it to me?


----------



## keokiracer

belerophon said:


> At Foto No4 "Zuidkade viaduct" is a sign on the right side. I don't get its meaning. May you explain it to me?


Those are directions for industrial buildings; the numbers you see is industrial numbering, every company has such a number. In this case it's industrial numbering for the Rotterdam(-harbor) area.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

vespafrederic said:


> Hi Chris!
> 
> Are there any news finishing A4 between Benelux Interchange and Klaaswaal? It would make A4 fully completed.


There are currently no plans to construct this link. Though they really want it in the city of Spijkenisse. Spijkenisse has some of the worst local traffic problems in the Netherlands, they have basically two routes in and out of town, both of them requires a bridge crossing. They have had a lot of bridge malfunctions over the recent years. A new eastern outlet would really improve access and better alternatives during incidents. 

Another problem is the Haringvliet Bridge along A29, just south of where A4 would join it. It is a bascule bridge that opens rather frequently, and is functionally obsolete. 

Replacing the bridge and extending A4 would be very expensive. A4 crosses two rivers between A15 and A29 and the Haringvliet Bridge is relatively long. It will likely be north of € 1 billion, and there seems to be near-zero interest from the national politics.


----------



## vespafrederic

ChrisZwolle said:


> There are currently no plans to construct this link. Though they really want it in the city of Spijkenisse. Spijkenisse has some of the worst local traffic problems in the Netherlands, they have basically two routes in and out of town, both of them requires a bridge crossing. They have had a lot of bridge malfunctions over the recent years. A new eastern outlet would really improve access and better alternatives during incidents.
> 
> Another problem is the Haringvliet Bridge along A29, just south of where A4 would join it. It is a bascule bridge that opens rather frequently, and is functionally obsolete.
> 
> Replacing the bridge and extending A4 would be very expensive. A4 crosses two rivers between A15 and A29 and the Haringvliet Bridge is relatively long. It will likely be north of € 1 billion, and there seems to be near-zero interest from the national politics.


Thanks for the informations. It is quite a lots of money.


----------



## McBeans

vespafrederic said:


> Thanks for the informations. It is quite a lots of money.


Toll road would do the trick nicely. Pay till the banks got double their money back and the road will be there asap, with all necessary landscape features. Not sure why there is such a taboo on temporary toll roads. It would save so much road misery.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Haringvliet Bridge was in fact a toll road from opening in 1964 to 1975. The original Benelux Tunnel was also a toll road from 1967 to 1980.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Toll roads in the Netherlands*

_Current (major) toll roads;_
* N62 Westerschelde Tunnel in Zeeland
* N217 Kil Tunnel near Dordrecht

_Shadow toll roads;_
* A9 Wijker Tunnel near Haarlem
* A15 Noord Tunnel near Dordrecht

_Future toll roads;_
* A15 Rhine Bridge near Arnhem
* A24 Blankenburg Tunnel near Rotterdam

_Past toll roads;_
* A4 Benelux Tunnel (until 1980)
* A29 Haringvliet Bridge (until 1975)
* N256 Zeeland Bridge (until 1993)
* N323 Prince Willem-Alexander Bridge (until 1996)

The N323 bridge in particular was noted as a toll road failure. It was built to make an isolated strip of land between the Waal and Meuse Rivers more accessible, but it had very low usage (especially since it was built to motorway standards). At one point it was seen as a major north-south route to Oss, but the next bridge across the Meuse was never built. After two years of operation, an average of only 2,500 vehicles per day used it. It is nowadays used by 20,000 vehicles per day.


----------



## Suburbanist

Any chance of a bridge being built between Megen and Appeltren?


----------



## Kanadzie

snowdog said:


> Not enough, you can never have to much infrastructure, in the end it'll always pay itself back due to better mobility.
> 
> Compared to how much motorists pay in direct taxes and fuel duty, it really is insufficient how little they back.


Only if the project is cheap enough and enough benefit to be worth that investment. Motorway/bridge-tunnel complex Lelystad-Reykjavik would be pretty stupid :lol:


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Don't give them any ideas.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ That's like the weirdos who set up shop around downtown Montreal street corners praising Lyndon LaRouche and the need to build a train tunnel across the Bering Strait while waving the obligatory poster of Adarack Obahitler... _what in the hell?_


----------



## McBeans

Kanadzie said:


> Only if the project is cheap enough and enough benefit to be worth that investment. Motorway/bridge-tunnel complex Lelystad-Reykjavik would be pretty stupid :lol:


2030 km. 

Channel tunnel is 50 km and cost 18 billion euro in today's money. 

So total cost would only be 730 billion. If a one way admission costs 100 euro, then every European would only have to make the trip 7x in a lifetime. Totally feasible. Let's do this.


----------



## ChasingCars

*A4 Midden-Delfland*

The new segment of A4 motorway between the cities of Delft and Schiedam will open tomorrow evening (direction north). Direction south will follow later that night.

Link to the news (in Dutch): http://nos.nl/artikel/2075711-verlengde-a4-tussen-delft-en-schiedam-morgenavond-open.html


----------



## zsmg

^^ That part of the A4 is also on Google maps now, but it's rather incomplete.


----------



## s0mevvn3

ChasingCars said:


> Direction south will follow later that night.


Incorrect. Direction south will open on monday very early. 



AD said:


> In de nacht van zondag op maandag (vóór de ochtendspits) de richting Schiedam.
> _During the night of sunday to monday (before morning rush-hour) in direction Schiedam _


link


----------



## Penn's Woods

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ That's like the weirdos who set up shop around downtown Montreal street corners praising Lyndon LaRouche and the need to build a train tunnel across the Bering Strait while waving the obligatory poster of Adarack Obahitler... _what in the hell?_


You know, I saw some Larouchies in Montreal in September 2006. I wanted to ask what they were doing in Canada. But I didn't because they would have told me.


----------



## Penn's Woods

McBeans said:


> 2030 km.
> 
> Channel tunnel is 50 km and cost 18 billion euro in today's money.
> 
> So total cost would only be 730 billion. If a one way admission costs 100 euro, then every European would only have to make the trip 7x in a lifetime. Totally feasible. Let's do this.


You'd need a few service areas along the route, complete with hotels....


----------



## Surel

Surel said:


> My Czech driver's license was nearing the expiration date, so I asked for the renewal. As I live in the Netherlands, I should get the Dutch driver's license.
> 
> I went to the city hall, filled the form, paid the money, gave them the photo etc..
> 
> Now, I got a letter from the Dutch driver's license authority institution, that I need to send them another form with an Statement of Health to get af Certification of Fitness and pay another 8 Euro for this form.
> 
> What a nonsense, clearly against the EU rules, the Dutch don't have to do it, so neither do I. The question is whether this is a problem by design, or the authority just ignores the law in general, or made a mistake in my case. It would not be the first case that I run into something like that in the Netherlands.
> 
> I am without my license already a week, I had to give it in, and I see that this will make it all take extra time. I hope that it will resolve before Christmas.





Slagathor said:


> Surel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suburbanist said:
> 
> 
> 
> I exchanged my Italian driver's license (still with years of validity ahead) for a Dutch one. They did not require any health certificate or examination. They just took my old license, and then gave me a Dutch one 7 days later (and a temporary receipt in the meantime so I could drive within Netherlands).
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that's the difference in treatment that you get when being from Italy or from the Czech Republic....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That seems very doubtful considering the image of Italy in the Netherlands. More likely your application just crossed the desk of a particularly nasty civil servant with a small *****. Bad luck, mate. Can happen to anyone.
Click to expand...


In the follow up of my experiences with obtaining Dutch driving license I would like to ask anyone who is familiar with the *Dutch law* on the drivings license and the renewal of the drivings license and the authority of the Dutch RDW institution that facilitates this. It seems it have to be a discrimination fight again... hno:

I called the RDW on Monday, asked them the explanation, and was promised to be called in two days, than one particular employee did find it strange that they asked it from me, but they did not call back.

I called the RDW again, asked about why, they don't call back, they did not have any answer. But they kept on telling that they are allowed to require that Statement of Health. When asked about on what bases, they could not answer. When asked about in what law is this based, they said, the Dutch law... lol, when asked in which particular law, they would not answer. When I confronted them with the Manual for Renewal of the Dutch driving license for foreigners, where is clear that as the EU citizen I am not required to provide the Health Statement, they hang up, without any explanation. They hanged up on me 4 times... These calls are of course under special paid tariff.

So now I am trying to find information about the legal background of it to be able to build up a case against the RDW. Any help is appreciated, especially as about finding of the law concerning the RDW and foreign driving licenses, and whether there is anything that could give the RDW the base to discriminate the non Dutch residents.

Actually it goes about finding in what legal binding documents could I find the same information as the information here bellow. I am pretty sure that it is like that, but I need the official statements.

http://auto-en-vervoer.infonu.nl/auto/35361-haken-en-ogen-bij-verlengen-van-het-rijbewijs.html



> Verklaring van geschiktheid?
> In een aantal gevallen is er voor de vernieuwing van het rijbewijs een Verklaring van geschiktheid nodig. Die verklaring vraag je aan bij het CBR door het opsturen van het formulier Eigen verklaring, dat je bij de gemeente kunt kopen.
> 
> Wie hebben een verklaring van geschiktheid nodig?
> 
> M.i.v. januari 2014 moet u vanaf uw 75e jaar voor verlenging van uw rijbewijs elke 5 jaar een medische keuring ondergaan.
> Aanvragers van een vrachtauto of busrijbewijs.
> Aanvragers van een rijbewijs voor motor of auto (cat. A, B, BE) die medisch bekend zijn bij het CBR.
> 
> 
> De gemeente waarin je woont kan eventueel meer informatie geven of je tot één van bovengenoemde groepen behoort.
> Als alles in orde is krijg je enkele weken na het opsturen van de Eigen verklaring bericht van het CBR. Het CBR kan ook besluiten dat je voor een keuring naar een medisch specialist moet. Daarom is het belangrijk de Eigen verklaring op tijd in te sturen. De maximum termijn waarop de Verklaring van geschiktheid wordt verstrekt is 4 maanden.


----------



## julesstoop

First ask your municipality if you are considered to be in one of the specific groups for which a Statement of Health is required. If the answer is 'no', ask them to formally confirm this in a letter. Also make sure you formally request for a review ('bezwaarprocedure') with the RDW - within six weeks - of their decision not to grant you a driver's licence. Make sure to include a copy of the letter from your municipality. 

They (RDW) are bound by administrative law to formally decide on your request for review and either reverse their original decision or give you the legal justification. If you still don't agree, you can take the next step (an appeal to the court).


----------



## Surel

julesstoop said:


> First ask your municipality if you are considered to be in one of the specific groups for which a Statement of Health is required. If the answer is 'no', ask them to formally confirm this in a letter. Also make sure you formally request for a review ('bezwaarprocedure') with the RDW - within six weeks - of their decision not to grant you a driver's licence. Make sure to include a copy of the letter from your municipality.
> 
> They (RDW) are bound by administrative law to formally decide on your request for review and either reverse their original decision or give you the legal justification. If you still don't agree, you can take the next step (an appeal to the court).


Thanks. I see it the same way.

I did exactly that with the municipality this afternoon. They were reluctant to give me such a confirmation in a formal letter, but at least they agreed to ask by the RDW what is the problem. I am curious when I will get an answer...

I am willing to do this battle, however, I also want a driving license. Obviously as long as I don't do what the RDW wants or win the battle (which could take months) I won't have my driving license as I had to give it in.

So in fact I will have to fight this retroactively... but I will for sure complain by the RDW first, before I fill the form.


----------



## Suburbanist

I fear these will make countryside leisure driving more and more difficult with many zones effectively fenced out.


----------



## julesstoop

Surel said:


> My Czech driver's license was nearing the expiration date, so I asked for the renewal. As I live in the Netherlands, I should get the Dutch driver's license [...] What a nonsense, clearly against the EU rules, the Dutch don't have to do it, so neither do I.


Do (did) you have EU standard format licence (the pinkish colored plastic card) or do you have an older national format licence?


----------



## Surel

julesstoop said:


> Do (did) you have EU standard format licence (the pinkish colored plastic card) or do you have an older national format licence?


Yes.

I really, really, appreciate the interest, but at the same time I am aware that this is not really the place to discuss this.

I thought that I might inform about it, and perhaps about my progress, as that is in fact interesting to the foreigners in the Netherlands, but I don't want to fill the discussion with it completely.

Should we start a separate thread, or perhaps PM?

But if no one objects it is ok with me to continue this topic in this thread.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ I think it's more interesting to talk about the A4 motorway opening tomorrow 

It is the longest discussed project in the Netherlands, starting in the 1950s, and under construction in the late 1960s, stopped in the 1970s, restarted in the 1980s, funding withdrawn in the 1990s and now finally opening to traffic after decades of discussion, procedures and construction


----------



## Suburbanist

I'm curious to see how long does it take for traffic to adjust, and whether the Benelux tunnels will become far more congested.


----------



## da_scotty

Knowing the Dutch, long... Unless the GPS systems are updated quickly people will continue to follow the A13. People in the Netherlands don't look at roadsigns, only at what a GPS shouts at them. Just remember the mayham at the Coentunnel or at Eindhoven Airport. With people crashing, driving trough central reservations leading to sings with "dont follow your GPS".

On that note, how will they route trafic from the Hague?


----------



## Penn's Woods

Is there any chance of rerouting the E19...although I suppose that wouldn't make sense until that last bit of the A4 is done. If it ever is.

Ahem, never mind....


----------



## sotonsi

^^The A4 route was clearly the original intended route of the E19.


----------



## Penn's Woods

da_scotty said:


> Knowing the Dutch, long... Unless the GPS systems are updated quickly people will continue to follow the A13. People in the Netherlands don't look at roadsigns, only at what a GPS shouts at them. Just remember the mayham at the Coentunnel or at Eindhoven Airport. With people crashing, driving trough central reservations leading to sings with "dont follow your GPS".
> 
> On that note, how will they route trafic from the Hague?


You know, I really like Dutch signage.
But on my drive from A'dam to Zeeland in July I nearly missed the exit from the A4 to the A13. Obviously, I didn't go back to see what they or I missed....


----------



## Penn's Woods

sotonsi said:


> ^^The A4 route was clearly the original intended route of the E19.


So the Belgians would actually have to call the A1 the A1:eek2:!

Well, north of Antwerp anyway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

da_scotty said:


> Knowing the Dutch, long... Unless the GPS systems are updated quickly people will continue to follow the A13.


Many people with in-car GPSs or devices like TomTom or Garmin never or almost never update their maps. On the other hand, daily commuters will quickly find out the new route.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A big 16-bit delay on the Dutch motorway. :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam opening*

A4 Delft - Schiedam is planned to open at 9 p.m. northbound this evening and during the night from Sunday to Monday southbound.

The VID (traffic information service) has dedicated one of their traffic cameras to the A4 opening this evening.


----------



## TM_Germany

I'm sorry, this may seem totally absurd and is probably just wrong, but recently word has gotten around Germany that you can pay for your driving lessons in the NL with sex (!). Normally I wouldn't even consider the idea, but multiple normally trustworthy newspapers reported about it. So is this true or have any of you ever heard of this?

If you can read german:
http://www.n24.de/n24/Nachrichten/Panorama/d/7785598/mit-sex-zum-fuehrerschein.html
http://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/d...en-niederlanden-ist-das-legal_id_5160362.html
http://www.autobild.de/artikel/niederlande-fahrstunden-gegen-sex-8451293.html


----------



## Penn's Woods

I know someone who may want to *give* driving lessons as a sideline if that's the case....


----------



## [atomic]

^^ why wouldn't it be true? if it isn't against the law it is ok. what if they offered to do the instructors taxes or gave them some home made foods? same thing.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A4 Delft - Schiedam opened to traffic at 7.30 p.m.! 60 years of motorway history finally coming together! :cheers: 

It opened to nortbound traffic only. The southbound direction will open Sunday night.

Transport minister Melanie Schultz came to open the motorway, by making a symbolic call to the traffic control center to lift the red X's on the gantries.


----------



## Aumgn

TM_Germany said:


> I'm sorry, this may seem totally absurd and is probably just wrong, but recently word has gotten around Germany that you can pay for your driving lessons in the NL with sex (!). Normally I wouldn't even consider the idea, but multiple normally trustworthy newspapers reported about it. So is this true or have any of you ever heard of this?
> 
> If you can read german:
> http://www.n24.de/n24/Nachrichten/Panorama/d/7785598/mit-sex-zum-fuehrerschein.html
> http://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/d...en-niederlanden-ist-das-legal_id_5160362.html
> http://www.autobild.de/artikel/niederlande-fahrstunden-gegen-sex-8451293.html


In Dutch: http://www.nrc.nl/handelsblad/2015/12/12/rijles-met-seks-betalen-het-mag-wel-1570090

In English: http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archiv...iving-instructors-who-accept-sex-for-lessons/


----------



## McBeans

Sex: accepted currency since the dawn of mankind. Nothing new, nothing to see here, just keep moving people :lol:


----------



## CNGL

I thought a section of Spanish N-260 that was U/C for a decade was bad, but A4 between Delft and Schiedam takes the cake for being almost half a century U/C. At least now is open. Hope is the last thing one loses.



ChrisZwolle said:


> A big 16-bit delay on the Dutch motorway. :lol:


Only 1 and a half months? Luckily they didn't use 32 bit, or even worse, 64 bit.


----------



## Ni3lS

TM_Germany said:


> I'm sorry, this may seem totally absurd and is probably just wrong, but recently word has gotten around Germany that you can pay for your driving lessons in the NL with sex (!). Normally I wouldn't even consider the idea, but multiple normally trustworthy newspapers reported about it. So is this true or have any of you ever heard of this?
> 
> If you can read german:
> http://www.n24.de/n24/Nachrichten/Panorama/d/7785598/mit-sex-zum-fuehrerschein.html
> http://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/d...en-niederlanden-ist-das-legal_id_5160362.html
> http://www.autobild.de/artikel/niederlande-fahrstunden-gegen-sex-8451293.html


All that was said is that there isn't a law that deems it illegal.


----------



## Kanadzie

TM_Germany said:


> I'm sorry, this may seem totally absurd and is probably just wrong, but recently word has gotten around Germany that you can pay for your driving lessons in the NL with sex (!). Normally I wouldn't even consider the idea, but multiple normally trustworthy newspapers reported about it. So is this true or have any of you ever heard of this?
> 
> If you can read german:
> http://www.n24.de/n24/Nachrichten/Panorama/d/7785598/mit-sex-zum-fuehrerschein.html
> http://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/d...en-niederlanden-ist-das-legal_id_5160362.html
> http://www.autobild.de/artikel/niederlande-fahrstunden-gegen-sex-8451293.html


I find it really amusing that it was Germans who first asked the question and are most interested in it :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*

Recent photos of A4 between Delft and Schiedam by constructor Heijmans.























































And a good video:


----------



## -Pino-

Kanadzie said:


> I find it really amusing that it was Germans who first asked the question and are most interested in it :lol:


Very German. Always happy to find an opportunity for Holland-bashing. It's typically followed by a quick visit to the country ...


----------



## Luki_SL

ChrisZwolle said:


> A4 Delft - Schiedam opened to traffic at 7.30 p.m.! 60 years of motorway history finally coming together! :cheers:


Was it the longest montorway construction in Nederland? I mean from the first start of works, in the 1968.


----------



## -Pino-

^^ Has to be, but only if you consider all those years in which the original ground works just laid abandoned as "construction". To me, this is a project once started and abandoned, only to be recommenced decades down the line. 

The one element in which it definitely is the longest is that there is no stretch of road in the Netherlands (if not Europe) that saw more discussion whether or not it should be built at all. During all those years after they pulled the plug on the original project, the plans were never far below the surface. Even if the government had no formal plans, there were always interest groups lobbying for construction. And of course opposing groups remained active too during all those years.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Dutch parliament has a low election threshold, which means there are many parties, and not one party has ever been able to gain a majority (the record is CDA in the 1980s, when they held a third of all seats). This means that with changing coalitions, so was political support for the A4 motorway. 

Labor party (PvdA) has often been one of the governing parties. It especially depended on their support, they are afraid they are losing seats to GreenLeft, so they often take similar positions as GL, even if their electorate is not. As usual, the political elite is more 'dedicated' left wing or right wing than most of their electorate. This has prevented the A4 from moving forward several times. 

When the project was stopped by parliament in 1976, it came down to a single vote making the difference.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some more photos of A4 Delft - Schiedam.

1. First traffic coming out of the 2 kilometer long Kethel Tunnel.









2. The A4 trench, looking north.









3. Southbound view. You can clearly see that the tunnel is located higher than the trench.









4. The northbound tube. There are 4 lanes, the Netherlands has tunnel laws that prescribe that there shouldn't be merges inside or just before tunnels. So the lanes from A4 and A20 at Kethelplein come together just before the tunnel, then the left lane ends after the tunnel.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Was it the same government - i.e., the same parties - that's in power now?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Leiden*

The A4, direction Amsterdam, at Zoeterwoude-Dorp, a village just south of Leiden, is the 6th worst congestion spot in the Netherlands in 2015, according to VID (Traffic Information Service). 

This segment was recently rebuilt, although a lane was added, it was split into a short local-express system with 2 through lanes and 1 local lane. This was designed this way over 20 years ago, and was never updated since, even though space has been preserved for 3+2 or 5 lanes in each direction through the Leiden area (10 lanes total).

The official position of the government is that they want to 'tweak' this problem. But given its high ranking among congestion spots in the Netherlands suggests more is needed than an attempt at a 'quick fix', government lingo for 'maybe we'll change some road markings'.


----------



## EPA001

The extra lanes are necessary there, and fast! But the government is as usual way too slow about that....


----------



## temlin

EPA001 said:


> The extra lanes are necessary there, and fast! But the government is as usual way too slow about that....


Melanie will fix it im sure of it!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

If the government coalition will let her. So far they haven't been keen on reducing the plundering of the infrastructure fund that was agreed with earlier. 

It's also a big loss of face with this project if they have to significantly change it so quick after completion. Even if Schultz herself is not responsible for the design phase of the project. 

The project was designed in the first half of the 1990s. It wasn't updated since, especially because the final plan approval order was annulled by court in 2007. They did not want to risk it getting annulled again, so they did not materially change the 1990s design.

This project is considered the turning point in Dutch environmental legislation and attitude towards motorway improvement projects.


----------



## Kanadzie

da_scotty said:


> It wasn't officially signed or anything. But it was used in brochures handed out to locals saying "meassures: 100km/h".
> So it wasn't black and white, but it was used to speed up the planning proces. So partly the goverment misled the municipalties, but upping the limit was in their legal right as no official doccuments where signed. It isn't very pretty though.....


It is really strange they decided to invoke section control (!) and so many flitsservans but also want to set normal speed limit. Schizophrenic government 

Why not just a Montana, USA example and either never enforce the 100 km/h speed limit, or make a special class of speeding ticket, where driving less than 130 km/h on zone 100 is maximum fine 5 Euro or something :lol:


----------



## maral

"Filedruk nog nooit zo snel gestegen" (congestion +25% this year)



> De omvang van de files in Nederland -de filedruk- is in 2015 met circa 25% toegenomen. Het is de grootste toename ooit in een jaar, zowel absoluut als relatief, sinds de VID in 2000 met het verzamelen van file-statistieken begon.


more :

https://www.vid.nl/Nieuws/article/VID.2015.356.02


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Rotterdam - Den Haag*

I filmed the new segment of A4 today, the video starts at the Botlek Bridge and ends at the Prins Clausplein stack interchange. It features the Benelux Tunnel, Kethel Tunnel and the A4 trench between Schiedam and Delft.


----------



## temlin

maral said:


> "Filedruk nog nooit zo snel gestegen" (congestion +25% this year)
> 
> 
> 
> more :
> 
> https://www.vid.nl/Nieuws/article/VID.2015.356.02


I think this graph gives an better picture, than only saying there is an 25% increase.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1-A6 Amsterdam - Almere*

Fresh aerial photos of the A1-A6 expansion project. I've driven through here yesterday, it's incredibly huge. 

The photos run east (Almere) to west (Diemen).

1. The new Gooimeer motorway interchange (A1/N702).









2. The expanded Holland Bridge. There are now 12 lanes.









3. The Muiderberg motorway interchange (A1/A6) with the new arch bridge for the Amsterdam - Lelystad - Zwolle railroad. It will eventually span the A1.









4. The Muiderberg interchange, looking east.









5. Aquaduct Vechtzicht. The widest 'aquaduct' in the world at 12 lanes. The existing motorway to the left will be demolished.









6. The new alignment of A1 is much wider than the current 8 lane motorway.









7. This is possibly the widest right-of-way of a motorway in the Netherlands. There will be 18 through lanes here.









8. The second bridge across the Amsterdam-Rhine Canal that will carry traffic to and from A9.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Rotterdam - Delft*

Some photos of A4 from Rotterdam to Delft which I took last Wednesday.

1. Approaching the Kethelplein motorway interchange (A4/A20). There are split lanes due to the multiple tubes of the Benelux Tunnel. The tunnel has a 5th tube with a reversible lane that is never in operation.

A4 Midden-Delfland-1 by European Roads, on Flickr

2. A4 is now one of a few stretches in the Netherlands where there are 6 lanes in one direction, 3 to A4 and 3 to A20.

A4 Midden-Delfland-2 by European Roads, on Flickr

3. 

A4 Midden-Delfland-3 by European Roads, on Flickr

4. Approaching the Ketheltunnel. A4 is extensively soundwalled. The area has one of the largest concentrations of apartment buildings in the Netherlands.

A4 Midden-Delfland-4 by European Roads, on Flickr

5. A4 is also one of the few locations with a noise barrier in the median. 

A4 Midden-Delfland-5 by European Roads, on Flickr

6. Tunnel category C. The speed limit is 100 km/h.

A4 Midden-Delfland-6 by European Roads, on Flickr

7. There are 4 lanes in the northbound tube of the Kethel Tunnel. The tunnel is 2000 meters long southbound and 1700 meters northbound.

A4 Midden-Delfland-7 by European Roads, on Flickr

8. The left lane ends shortly after the tunnel.

A4 Midden-Delfland-8 by European Roads, on Flickr

9. A4 has a number of bridges, the one in the foreground is for cyclists, the one in the background is an 'eco-aquaduct'. It's basically a small wetland area over the A4.

A4 Midden-Delfland-9 by European Roads, on Flickr

10. The trench. It is the lowest point in the Netherlands that is not in a tunnel (-10.2 m)

A4 Midden-Delfland-10 by European Roads, on Flickr

11. The trench is less deep closer to Delft.

A4 MIdden-Delfland-11 by European Roads, on Flickr

12. It was designed that as little as possible sticks out above the surround area.

A4 Midden-Delfland-12 by European Roads, on Flickr

13. The smallest 'fork' sign in the Netherlands? There are some in tunnels.

A4 Midden-Delfland-13 by European Roads, on Flickr

14. Exit to N470. It is one of only a few N4xx numbers that is actually signed. Most of them are only posted on hectometer poles and in documents, hence not a lot of people are aware of N400+ numbers.

A4 Midden-Delfland-14 by European Roads, on Flickr

15. The left lane ends at Delft. There is only a few kilometers of two lanes northbound until Den Haag-Zuid, there is space to easily add another lane, half of the route already has pavement for a third through lane.

A4 Midden-Delfland-15 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> Some photos of A4 from Rotterdam to Delft which I took last Wednesday.
> 
> ...
> 2. A4 is now one of a few stretches in the Netherlands where there are 6 lanes in one direction, 3 to A4 and 3 to A20.
> 
> A4 Midden-Delfland-2 by European Roads, on Flickr
> 
> 3.
> 
> A4 Midden-Delfland-3 by European Roads, on Flickr
> ....


Proficiaat, Nederland!

What are the yellow boxes with 2 and 9 in them?

PS: Road_UK would approve of the lane discipline.


----------



## snowdog

Had a drive in both directions on the A4, better late than never!

Where can we claim for damages (economic loss over the past 50 years) against all those who opposed the road  ?


----------



## Wilhem275

It's the price of democracy :troll: :troll: :troll:


----------



## BigMike90

ChrisZwolle said:


> Fresh aerial photos of the A1-A6 expansion project. I've driven through here yesterday, it's incredibly huge.
> 
> The photos run east (Almere) to west (Diemen).


Amazing roadworks :cheers:

when is this intersection about to be finished?


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## da_scotty

Penn's Woods said:


> Proficiaat, Nederland!
> 
> What are the yellow boxes with 2 and 9 in them?
> 
> PS: Road_UK would approve of the lane discipline.


The 2 and 9 are diversion routes!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9, Amsterdam*

Aerial photos of the A9 expansion in southeastern Amsterdam. It's part of the large Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere project. The A9 will be widened from 4 to 11 lanes with a reversible lane and a local-express system. They are currently working on the 3 kilometer long Gaasperdam Tunnel which is a cover on top of the motorway. It is the longest land tunnel in the Netherlands.

A peculiar stretch is the point where A9 runs under the Utrecht - Amsterdam Railway, one of the busiest rail corridors in the Netherlands. The railway overpass will be incorporated as part of the tunnel, so that closures of the railway will be kept to an absolute minimum.


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## jdb.2

^^
Impressive project, I saw it on Wegenforum.
Can we borrow your transportation minister?


----------



## Suburbanist

I know they are not exactly the most enticing neighborhoods, but those aerial views or Southeast Amsterdam (Bijlmer, Hollendrecth, Diemen) have very interesting geometric shapes when seen from birds-eye view.


----------



## MrAronymous

The whole setup of the Bijlmermeer was quite innovative, with all modes of traffic seperated and each district having its own parking garage. Unfortunately because of social and demographic situations it was unsustainable.










I do wish they would have left some 'honeycomb flats' and gave them a good renovation and built less single family terraced housing to replace them hno:


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## ChrisZwolle

These projects were designed for the lower middle class, but ended up with being filled by (illegal) immigrants and the unemployed. Back in 1992 when a Boeing 747 crashed into one of the apartment buildings in the Bijlmer, the exact number of fatalities was a point of debate for a long time due to the large amount of undocumented immigrants living in these buildings. The Bijlmer area was like the French _banlieue_ in the negative sense of the word.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

That type of apartment design has largely been rejected in the western world today, not much gets built like that any more. Most of those complexes have degenerated into social and demographic failures that breed crime, and it has a lot to do with their design, isolating the poor who reside in them and providing spaces around the towers for illegal activities to occur with nobody to see it.

The only time they tend to work is when the extremely wealthy live in them.. but for housing lower incomes they work horribly.


----------



## Surel

Innsertnamehere said:


> That type of apartment design has largely been rejected in the western world today, not much gets built like that any more. Most of those complexes have degenerated into social and demographic failures that breed crime, and it has a lot to do with their design, isolating the poor who reside in them and providing spaces around the towers for illegal activities to occur with nobody to see it.
> 
> The only time they tend to work is when the extremely wealthy live in them.. but for housing lower incomes they work horribly.


It has rather to do with that those places were designed poorly and for the poor.

It doesn't really matter what type of construction design there is, when it is all designed only to be cheap. This will always result in concentration of the lowest layer of the society ladder living there. To prevent this, development should be from the beginning planned as mixed in order to offer something to all layers of the society, preventing social catastrophe.

Wien has quite nice apartment designs of similar proportions from the same times, but completely different quality and service level. http://neueregel.tumblr.com/post/116997356021/wohnpark-alt-erlaa-wien-harry-glück


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## Suburbanist

The area was originally planned to be another expansion of Amsterdam, not an enclave of people with social problems. But, then, there was a wave of immigrant arrivals, legal and not, and the idea of housing mostly young families in what would be superior flats (compared to the cramped houses they were living before) was ditched by circumstances, and after problems started to arise, the area fell out of favor.


----------



## keokiracer

Surel said:


> It doesn't really matter what type of construction design there is, when it is all designed only to be cheap. This will always result in concentration of the lowest layer of the society ladder living there. To prevent this, development should be from the beginning planned as mixed in order to offer something to all layers of the society, preventing social catastrophe.


The word you're looking for is gentrification 
Sort of a 'planned gentrification'.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^I don't know about that...Gentrification means that an area becomes desirable (or perceived as desirable), wealthier people move in and the current population is priced out over time.

You're talking about something more diverse (at least economically). I don't know how that's achieved....


----------



## Slagathor

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^I don't know about that...Gentrification means that an area becomes desirable (or perceived as desirable), wealthier people move in and the current population is priced out over time.
> 
> You're talking about something more diverse (at least economically). I don't know how that's achieved....


Dutch suburbs from the 1980s (such as the one I grew up in) often feature what Surel is talking about (more or less). They'll have row houses, semi-detached houses, detached houses and villas all in the same neighborhood and even on the same street. The idea is that the rich and the poor live side by side and their children will be classmates.

I'm not sure if there are apartment buildings that have adopted this on a large scale, but it would certainly be feasible to include studios, one-beds, two-beds and larger apartments in the same building without separating people by levels (with the richest people on top).

(I'm also not sure if the same concept is consistently applied to modern suburbs, I venture very rarely in these places).


----------



## sbondorf

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Dutch parliament has a low election threshold, which means there are many parties, and not one party has ever been able to gain a majority (the record is CDA in the 1980s, when they held a third of all seats). This means that with changing coalitions, so was political support for the A4 motorway. Labor party (PvdA) has often been one of the governing parties. It especially depended on their support, they are afraid they are losing seats to GreenLeft, so they often take similar positions as GL, even if their electorate is not. As usual, the political elite is more 'dedicated' left wing or right wing than most of their electorate. This has prevented the A4 from moving forward several times. When the project was stopped by parliament in 1976, it came down to a single vote making the difference.


But where does the additional controversy about the A4 come from exactly? NL in general, and Randstad in particular, has had numerous motorways planned, built and widened over the same span of time. Seems strange to me why the A4 missing link is so special?


----------



## UnequalSine

The new stretch of the A4 runs trough an unique bit of nature between the cities of Rotterdam and The Hague. This is also the reason the new road is completely in a trench (out of sight). Furthermore, the A13 is located a few kilometers east, completely parallel to the new A4. Two motorways doing the same job, might have been a bit shocking for some of the Dutch politics and citizens.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The 'Midden-Delfland' is one of the few remaining undeveloped areas between Rotterdam and The Hague. The Westland to the west has been built-out with a huge amount of greenhouses, and the area to the east has also seen intensive development with greenhouses and new residential areas (Lansingerland & Pijnacker-Nootdorp municipalities).

So the concerns about the A4 and its impact on the open area were quite legit. Often overlooked is the fact that the Rotterdam - The Hague railway also runs between A4 and A13, it's one of the busiest rail corridors in the Netherlands.


----------



## snowdog

UnequalSine said:


> The new stretch of the A4 runs trough an unique bit of nature between the cities of Rotterdam and The Hague.


The biggest lie/nonsense in years (imho) hno:.. Unique bit of nature, what a joke, typical Dutch Polder landscape like so many, pastures with cows. That is a not a nature area.

Look up the definition of that word and tell me a typical Dutch Polder pasture complies to that definition.


> So the concerns about the A4 and its impact on the open area were quite legit.


I can't agree with that view, can't just go around calling an area of which there are many in NL a unique nature area. Drive for 20 minutes from there and there are MANY such areas around.


> Two motorways doing the same job, might have been a bit shocking for some of the Dutch politics and citizens.


I fail to see what is wrong with redundancy in infrastructure. You need alternatives for calamities, the situation has been for years, that for every fart on the A13, the whole area became a gridlock.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*2015: year in review*

Here's a little overview of major improvements started, completed or other steps taken.

* *14 January*: the final plan approval order was issued for the long-planned _Rijnland Route_, an expressway south of Leiden that links A4 and A44. An east-west route has been planned here since the 1950s.
* *18 February*: the appeals against the construction of the _Rotterdamsebaan_, the most important urban road project in The Hague, were dismissed by the court.
* *11 March*: The appeals against the construction of a regional ring road expressway around the southern city of Heerlen were dismissed by court. The project is known as the _Buitenring Parkstad Limburg_ and is one of the largest provincial road projects in the country.
* *23 May*: The Sluiskil Tunnel (N62) near Terneuzen opened to traffic. It is a twin-tube bored tunnel under the Canal from Gent to Terneuzen and eliminates the long waiting times at the old bridge.
* *12 July*: The new Botlek Bridge (A15) near Rotterdam opens to traffic. It is plagued by malfunctions ever since.
* *10 August*: Major construction work begins along A9 in southeastern Amsterdam. The motorway will be widened from 4 to 11 lanes and be put underground in a 3 kilometer long tunnel.
* *29 August*: The Salland-Twente Tunnel (N35) in Nijverdal opens to traffic after six years of construction & delays. It is the first sizable road tunnel in Overijssel province.
* *10 September*: The upgrade of N261 to a grade-separated expressway between Tilburg and Waalwijk is officially completed.
* *28 September*: The first stage of the new N356 four-lane expressway opens to traffic near Dokkum in Friesland province.
* *28 November*: The expanded Holland Bridge (A6) near Almere opens to traffic.
* *18 December*: The long-awaited A4 opens to traffic between Delft and Schiedam.
* *December*: The works of the massive A15 Maasvlakte - Vaanplein (Rotterdam) upgrade is completed. 85 kilometers of new lanes were constructed.


----------



## McBeans

Any word of what goodness 2016 is likely to bring Chris?


----------



## temlin

Filte top50, has been published today. N325 Pleyroute (Arnhem - Arnhem Velperbroek) only Provincial road in the top 50.









http://vid.nl/top50.html

This is also an quite interesting picture, probably related to the economic growth.


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## keokiracer

temlin said:


> Filte top50, has been published today. N325 Pleyroute (Arnhem - Arnhem Velperbroek) only Provincial road in the top 50.


It's also pretty much the only provincial road where the VID gets sufficient data from.


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## verfmeer

temlin said:


> Filte top50, has been published today. N325 Pleyroute (Arnhem - Arnhem Velperbroek) only Provincial road in the top 50.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://vid.nl/top50.html


Under construction:
8, 11*, 16, 17*, 19, 21, 22*, 23, 27, 31*, 37, 38, 40, 41 and 48.
In planning:
1, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 18, 20, 24, 25, 26, 28, 29, 30, 45, 46, 47, 49 and 50.
No plans or construction:
2, 6, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 39, 42, 43 and 44.
*finished in 2015


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## ChrisZwolle

*A16 Ridderkerk*

A circa 1950s photo of the A16 near Ridderkerk, looking north. There are presently 17 lanes at this location, where the Ridderkerk (north) Motorway Interchange is located. (location)


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## EPA001

^^ I grew up in this area, the change is massive compared to the situation in this picture. Very nice to see this.


----------



## Suburbanist

Something that strikes me looking at older (before 1960) aerial pics of Netherlands is how fewer trees were there in the countryside, compared to today. I'm not talking about whole forests, but merely trees around farms, the polders appeared almost bare.


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## ChrisZwolle

That's true, the original Dutch landscape was much more open than it is today. Although they did not went overboard with planting trees along motorways like they did in Germany and Belgium, where you have almost no view on the surrounding area anymore.


----------



## Kanadzie

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^Interesting.
> 
> I've heard Chicago-area traffic reports say things like "it'll take 45 minutes from O'Hare to the Eisenhower...." That seems to be the standard way of reporting on congestion out there...a bunch of times for particular stretches of highway.
> 
> For that matter, in the New York area you'll hear "30 minutes inbound at the Lincoln Tunnel, 20 at the Holland..."
> 
> So I just assumed it was the same sort of thing.
> 
> -----
> 
> So that "86 km" on the Amersfoort-Groningen entry is the length of the actual jam? I just took it as the distance from Wezep to Assen-Noord....


In the Toronto area they've put up Bluetooth-driven dynamic signs showing the time to reach a particular interchange.
However the notorious traffic of the region gives often pretty depressing results - "73 minutes to Hwy 404"
or one that I pass daily that usually suggests 8 minutes. At midnight with nobody on the road, it shows 8 minutes and it takes me 6. Driving in the morning with the traffic jam it takes me 30 minutes and... it shows 8 :lol:


----------



## General Maximus

MichiH said:


> ^^ Dunno. It's usually the additional time in Germany "dort dauert's 69 Minuten länger" / "takes 69 minutes longer there".


Especially Bayern3 prides itself on the "Bayern3 Stauzeitrechner".


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Wilhem275 said:


> In this case 86 km is roughly the distance between Wezep and Assen Noord, GMaps says without traffic it takes 50' so we can assume 69' is the total transit time -including jam- from A to B (Chicago style). Right now GMaps reports 60' for that trip, half green half orange.


No, the 69 minutes indicates the delay. It comes on top of the usual driving time. Dutch traffic information is very similar to the German traffic information in terms of format. First they state the road number + the stretch between two large cities, then the exact stretch and the length / delay. For instance: _A28 Zwolle richting Amersfoort, tussen Harderwijk en Strand Nulde 4 kilometer stilstaand verkeer_. 'A28 Zwolle towards Amersfoort, between Harderwijk and Strand Nulde, 4 kilometers of stationary traffic'.

Dutch traffic information usually reported the traffic jam length (i.e. '8 km of stationary traffic' or '10 km of slow traffic'). It wasn't until the mid-2000s that they started to systematically add the delay to it. 

Length alone may not give a good impression of the delay. I've been in a 2 kilometer traffic jam that took me 1.5 hours to get through, while 10 km of slow traffic may only take 15 minutes more. 

They experimented with VMSs. They now usually give the regular travel time + delay, for instance: 30 + 10 min, which means the travel time would be 30 minutes, but there is also 10 minutes delay, so a total travel time of 40 minutes.

Giving the total travel time alone may not be a good indication if you have no reference as to how long it would usually take to drive it. Is 40 minutes along A1 to Amsterdam a long delay, or free-flow? It doesn't tell you.


----------



## M-NL

ChrisZwolle said:


> There are reports of trucks being unable to drive across motorway bridges. They can't get traction on the incline.


The problem is the axle arrangement. On a standard European 40T tractor trailer combination you have a 2 axle tractor of which only the rear axle is driven and a 3 axle trailer. If you lack traction there is nothing you can do to improve it. Fitting snow chains is prohibited in the Netherlands as far as I know, because it will damage the road surface.

On a comparable US tractor trailer combination the tractor has 3 axles of which one or two are driven and the trailer 2. With 2 driven axles you probably would not have had this problem in the first place, but even with just one drive axle you can lift the other axle to increase load on the driven axle. However due to the axle location this setup requires more space to make turns, which make it very unpractical in Europe with its narrow and twisty road system.


----------



## Coccodrillo

^^ Some (few...) European trucks have an hydraulic drive on the firs axle. This helps in some situations, as the hydraulic system doesn't work above 20-30 km/h.


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## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> ...
> Giving the total travel time alone may not be a good indication if you have no reference as to how long it would usually take to drive it. Is 40 minutes along A1 to Amsterdam a long delay, or free-flow? It doesn't tell you.


One advantage of the traditional Anglo-Saxon measurement system: At 60 mph, a mile takes a minute. So if you see that the number of minutes to get from point A to point B is significantly higher than the number of miles (for example "20 miles - 30 minutes"), you know at a glance there's a slowdown.


----------



## Wilhem275

ChrisZwolle said:


> They experimented with VMSs. They now usually give the regular travel time + delay, for instance: 30 + 10 min, which means the travel time would be 30 minutes, but there is also 10 minutes delay, so a total travel time of 40 minutes.
> 
> *Giving the total travel time alone may not be a good indication if you have no reference as to how long it would usually take to drive it.* Is 40 minutes along A1 to Amsterdam a long delay, or free-flow? It doesn't tell you.


Right, but my idea is that in such situations I'd also probably not know the place very well, which means I'm dumb-following the nav system with few chances to elaborate an alternative (if there's any). If I'm stuck on a route, then the relevant info is when I'll be out of it.

Showing both info (30+10) is a very good solution IMO.

So yesterday it would have been 50+69? Quite impressive!


----------



## MichiH

Penn's Woods said:


> I've heard Chicago-area traffic reports say things like "it'll take 45 minutes from O'Hare to the Eisenhower...." That seems to be the standard way of reporting on congestion out there...a bunch of times for particular stretches of highway.


Yep, I was in Chicago in 2007 and it was reported that way on TV. The estimated travel time from A to B. It was the first time I've ever heard anything about travel times or delays. IIRC, it was reported the same way in Detroit when I was there 3 years ago.



General Maximus said:


> Especially Bayern3 prides itself on the "Bayern3 Stauzeitrechner".


What the hell is Bayern3  I'm used to listen to the rival radio programm "Antenne Bayern" (antenna Bavaria) when traveling in Bavaria (which is rare though). They report "Unsere Echtzeitmessung sagt, Sie müssen mit 10 Minuten mehr rechnen" --> "Our real-time measuring says that you have to calculate with additional 10 minutes" or "Planen Sie bitte 10 Minuten mehr ein" --> "Please schedule with an addition of 10 minutes".

I don't know which way (travel time or delay time) is better and I don't know if the predictions actually confirm to the real travel/delay time.


----------



## Kanadzie

Penn's Woods said:


> One advantage of the traditional Anglo-Saxon measurement system: At 60 mph, a mile takes a minute. So if you see that the number of minutes to get from point A to point B is significantly higher than the number of miles (for example "20 miles - 30 minutes"), you know at a glance there's a slowdown.


Just wear a watch with a tachymeter scale, even easier :cheers:
Or even just... that the number of km is less than twice the number of minutes...


----------



## bartek76

Surel said:


> Few days later I also received a reply form RDW to my inquiry with the same information as about why they did not proceed my renewal. However, this time they were willing to inform themselves to check whether the license was not ok, as they "saw the same date standard on many licenses from CZ". Finally these days I received the letter that I will get my license. Nevertheless, the RDW never stated that they made a mistake.



I would sue them anyway, expecting compensation for wasted time and stress, plus I would expect detailed information what measures were taken against person(s) responsible for the delay.


----------



## g.spinoza

Penn's Woods said:


> One advantage of the traditional Anglo-Saxon measurement system: At 60 mph, a mile takes a minute. So if you see that the number of minutes to get from point A to point B is significantly higher than the number of miles (for example "20 miles - 30 minutes"), you know at a glance there's a slowdown.


What do you mean" advantage ". It's the same : at 60 kph, a Kilometer takes a minute.


----------



## Stuu

g.spinoza said:


> What do you mean" advantage ". It's the same : at 60 kph, a Kilometer takes a minute.


The difference is that 60mph (100km/h) is much nearer the normal speed on a motorway, so easier to see at a glance if it is roughly the expected time

The VMS' on the British motorway network do often say:
"Junction 21 (M4/M5) 30 miles 28 minutes", so you can see straight away that there are no delays


----------



## keokiracer

Stuu said:


> The difference is that 60mph (100km/h) is much nearer the normal speed on a motorway, so easier to see at a glance if it is roughly the expected time


60x2=120. If the given time is more than half of the distance in km there's a delay. Easy.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Kanadzie said:


> Just wear a watch with a tachymeter scale, even easier :cheers:
> Or even just... that the number of km is less than twice the number of minutes...


Watches are very retro.


----------



## Penn's Woods

g.spinoza said:


> What do you mean" advantage ". It's the same : at 60 kph, a Kilometer takes a minute.


But 60 miles per hour is reasonable highway speed. A little above the long-time national limit of 55 (that no one obeyed) that is still in effect in a lot of urban areas.

There's even an expression, "a mile a minute." If you say someone "talks a mile a minute," you mean you want them to slow down a little.


----------



## General Maximus

Stuu said:


> The difference is that 60mph (100km/h) is much nearer the normal speed on a motorway, so easier to see at a glance if it is roughly the expected time
> 
> The VMS' on the British motorway network do often say:
> "Junction 21 (M4/M5) 30 miles 28 minutes", so you can see straight away that there are no delays


Wouldn't it be easier to say that the route is clear?


----------



## UnequalSine

Not if you're comparing two routes to the same point, which is often stated upon Dutch VMS.









(picture by ChrisZwolle)


----------



## General Maximus

This is a good way. The French matrix information is a good system as well, with excellent information especially in the Paris area. Our British friends are falling behind. Information is often not accurate, or it's a complete lie, warning drivers of traffic jams when there aren't any, and they give driving times to next junctions for no apparent reason.


----------



## g.spinoza

Stuu said:


> The difference is that 60mph (100km/h) is much nearer the normal speed on a motorway, so easier to see at a glance if it is roughly the expected time
> 
> The VMS' on the British motorway network do often say:
> "Junction 21 (M4/M5) 30 miles 28 minutes", so you can see straight away that there are no delays





Penn's Woods said:


> But 60 miles per hour is reasonable highway speed. A little above the long-time national limit of 55 (that no one obeyed) that is still in effect in a lot of urban areas.
> 
> There's even an expression, "a mile a minute." If you say someone "talks a mile a minute," you mean you want them to slow down a little.


Ok, so, 120 kph -> 2 km in 1 minute 

It's even more accurate because 120 kph is closer than 60 mph to motorway cruise speed 

EDIT: didn't see keokiracer's post


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It is policy in the Netherlands to detour traffic only via alternate motorways, not secondary roads. The traffic volumes on the motorways are too high to handle on secondary roads. For instance in western Netherlands there are wide motorways with eight or ten lanes, but secondary roads in the area are often only two lanes with lots of roundabouts and/or built-up areas. 

The motorway network is also dense enough to allow a detour via alternate motorways in most cases. Although usually people attempt to use a nearby alternate secondary road, so they usually clog up regardless of posted detours.


----------



## General Maximus

But the Netherlands did start German style "U" diversions on secondary roads?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, and they are almost never used in practice. It's a complete waste of money.


----------



## da_scotty

The signs are nearly impossible to follow inside cities when signs are clustered


----------



## Penn's Woods

g.spinoza said:


> Ok, so, 120 kph -> 2 km in 1 minute
> 
> It's even more accurate because 120 kph is closer than 60 mph to motorway cruise speed
> 
> EDIT: didn't see keokiracer's post


Well, at least in the U.S., these signs mostly show up on urban freeways where 60/100 is more, well, typical than 75/120.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> It is policy in the Netherlands to detour traffic only via alternate motorways, not secondary roads. The traffic volumes on the motorways are too high to handle on secondary roads. For instance in western Netherlands there are wide motorways with eight or ten lanes, but secondary roads in the area are often only two lanes with lots of roundabouts and/or built-up areas.
> 
> The motorway network is also dense enough to allow a detour via alternate motorways in most cases. Although usually people attempt to use a nearby alternate secondary road, so they usually clog up regardless of posted detours.


A sensible policy!


----------



## Suburbanist

Do they apply this policy also regarding autowegen?

Would they sign Zwole => Heerenveen via N50 if there is some problem in Meppel? 

Speaking of it, it appears Google changed the color scheme of the autowegen once again.


----------



## General Maximus

Automated road signs that changes when volumes of traffic or possible closures require to do so and traffic gets diverted simply by following the signs. I believe even the TMC on navigation devices are linked to this info provided by local radio stations. I haven't seen anything like that in the Netherlands yet...


----------



## General Maximus

da_scotty said:


> The signs are nearly impossible to follow inside cities when signs are clustered


And I suppose that it doesn't really help that all signs in the Netherlands have the same colour, regardless what type of road you are on. (A or N) Belgium is the other country that does that, apart from the green access signs to motorways. 

No changes planned?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are changeable traffic signs for shoulder lanes. However, they are not really popular among the road authority because they malfunction often, sometimes leaving unreadable signs. 


IMG 048 by European Roads, on Flickr
(I'm not sure if this sign still exists, the photo was taken in 2009)


----------



## Penn's Woods

General Maximus said:


> And I suppose that it doesn't really help that all signs in the Netherlands have the same colour, regardless what type of road you are on. (A or N) Belgium is the other country that does that, apart from the green access signs to motorways.
> 
> No changes planned?


I drove in both countries, and France, last July. I'm familiar with British signage as well. Britain and France are very similar in that respect. I thought it was a Vienna Convention or EU requirement that signage on motorways be a distinct color from other signage.

(I'd also point out, as an American, that it's not necessarily obvious to the visitor that the background color of the sign is significant. Maybe that's why French signage in particular can seem excessive at 110 km/h....we're not used to ignoring large chunks of it and focusing on green or whatever.)


----------



## TrojaA

Penn's Woods said:


> Well, at least in the U.S., these signs mostly show up on urban freeways where 60/100 is more, well, typical than 75/120.


I saw a few times those signs for "measured mile" areas. So it seems that you guys like to measure something while driving. ;-)


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ When you are driving with only 100 km/h on a open motorway you need something to fix the boredom :lol:


----------



## maral

ChrisZwolle said:


> There are reports of trucks being unable to drive across motorway bridges. They can't get traction on the incline.







Some footage of it.
Footage posted on twitter @FMwurker


----------



## Penn's Woods

TrojaA said:


> I saw a few times those signs for "measured mile" areas. So it seems that you guys like to measure something while driving. ;-)


I'm not sure what the point of those is.... They've been around forever. (And with mileposts on every Interstate, and 10ths of miles showing up more and more, you could do a "measured mile" wherever you want.)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A16/N3 Dordrecht*

After a decade of planning, they finally picked the preferred solution to the A16/N3 interchange problems. They will add a loop ramp for southbound traffic. Surely this could've been thought of earlier? They wanted a flyover but there wasn't any funding for it.


----------



## EPA001

^^ The A16 desperately needs to be widened to at least 4 lanes in each direction. This also requires a successor to the current Moerdijkbrug. But that renew crossing of the Hollands Diep is not on the cards yet.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Gridlock in Rotterdam:


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^And the new A4's not helping much. Unless you're trying to get to Hoek van Holland. (Um, that is what's down the A20 to the west, right?)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Moerdijk Bridge (A16) south of Dordrecht was closed after a major accident. This means traffic had to go via alternate routes; A29 and A15-A27. As you can see this backed up much of Rotterdam.


----------



## keokiracer

As a matter of fact, for a while the A13 and A4 were the only highways in the Rotterdam area actually moving


----------



## Wilhem275

Would have the southern-A4 helped, in this case?


----------



## keokiracer

^^ Not without a Haringvlietbrug with more lanes.


----------



## EPA001

Indeed. Even with a larger new Moerdijkbrug or Moerdijktunnel the Haringvlietbrug needs to be renewed as well combined with the A4-South development. With a higher mounted road to increase the height for ships to pass without opening the bridge and with (eventually) 4 lanes in each direction.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's the problem with the A4 southern extension from Rotterdam. This link alone would be very expensive as it crosses two rivers with shipping, likely requiring tunnels. But there is also a need to replace the Haringvliet Bridge, and possibly also the bridge across the Volkerak Locks. These are all costly projects. 

Of course they could just construct the A4 extension, but that would lead to problems downstream. 

But it is possible the Haringvliet Bridge will be replaced in the medium term, as the bridge is already 52 years old and is structurally obsolete (no outside shoulders, insufficient inside shoulders, a drawbridge).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Haringvliet Bridge was a toll road from 1964 to 1975.

The toll was 3.50 guilders for a passenger car from 1964, then 2.50 guilders from 1968 and finally 2.00 guilders from 1970. It's quite expensive if you think about it and adjust it to inflation. It's about € 9 one-way adjusted to 2013 value according to an inflation calculator.


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> These are all costly projects.


They are. But the necessity to spend money on these projects rises literally dramatically over the last period. And the need for them was always there, and with increasing traffic the number of bottlenecks rises. And in this area of The Netherlands they rise is the strongest. The strong rise in accidents show that these connections are all operating without any margins and that they are already operating above the normal capacity.

But we might have reached the point where a new Deltaplan to cope with insufficient capacity in our national infrastructure is required. That should also include the railway capacity since NS is also operating at the limits of what it can do. The traffic jams and capacity shortages on the rail are at present spiralling out of control.....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Van Brienenoord Bridge (A16) under construction in Rotterdam, early 1960s.









Merwede Bridge (A27) nearly completed in Gorinchem, circa 1961. It replaced a ferry, so little did they know the bridge would carry up to 100,000 vehicles per day 50 years later...


----------



## Suburbanist

So before then the only crossings were the Maastunnel and the bridge at Geldermalsen?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It depends on the river system. Pre-1960 there were also bridges in Dordrecht and Alblasserdam. 

But yes, river crossings were very limited prior to 1960, and are still a major transportation bottleneck. Nearly all bridges across the major rivers operate near capacity. Only the Prince Willem-Alexander Bridge east of Tiel has plenty of capacity to spare. 

When the A16 Moerdijk Bridge was blocked, traffic had to find alternate routes (A27 & A29). The result was a 40 kilometer traffic jam on A15, the east-west motorway that provides access to these alternate bridges and tunnels.


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> Van Brienenoord Bridge (A16) under construction in Rotterdam, early 1960s.
> http://i.imgur.com/53byRnI.jpg[img]
> 
> Merwede Bridge (A27) nearly completed in Gorinchem, circa 1961. It replaced a ferry, so little did they know the bridge would carry up to 100,000 vehicles per day 50 years later...
> [img]http://i.imgur.com/VezSReN.jpg[img][/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Awesome pictures, were these original color pics or black&white restored/edited to color? The top one looks like an original color photo!
> 
> [QUOTE]	So before then the only crossings were the Maastunnel and the bridge at Geldermalsen?[/QUOTE]
> I may be incorrect, but I think the first Willemsbrug was also there!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

An unusual roundabout where the bike paths goes straight through the center along N384 near Boazum, Friesland province.


----------



## italystf

snowdog said:


> Awesome pictures, were these original color pics or black&white restored/edited to color? The top one looks like an original color photo!
> 
> 
> I may be incorrect, but I think the first Willemsbrug was also there!


There were already color photos in 1960, although they are scarce because, back then, color film was very expensive compared to the black and white one. That's why you can find black and white photos taken well into the 1970s, although technology for color photos had been invented decades before.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Den Haag*

A nice aerial photo of the Neherkade underpass in The Hague, completed last year.


----------



## Slagathor

Still waiting on that grass but the rest of it is finished.


----------



## Kanadzie

They must have big pumps working all the time to drain it?


----------



## Slagathor

That applies to everything West of Amersfoort...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Ede - Arnhem*

The widening of A12 between Ede and the Grijsoord motorway interchange (A50) near Arnhem will be completed six months ahead of schedule. The motorway is being widened from four to six lanes in a 16 month timespan. All bridges are widened or replaced along this stretch. The works will be completed by summer.

The main widening works were done in only three months, with a reduced speed of 90 km/h. Otherwise the traffic impact was very limited. 


DSC_0038.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


----------



## MrAronymous

The sign is wrong? There should be an upward arrow in the middle lane.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Lane #3 (from the inside) will be a taper exit, which splits in a through lane and exit lane. There will be 2 lanes towards Eindhoven and 3 towards Oberhausen, but the left lane will end shortly after the gore point.


----------



## Suburbanist

Is this one of those projects where the contractor has to pay RWS a fee per hourly disruption and a much larger fee per closure, per lane?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think so, it's a DBFM contract. The concession is valued at € 80 million with maintenance until 2032. It's a relatively small project for a PPP. Most PPPs are either longer stretches, or much more expensive projects.


----------



## McBeans

This brings the number of highway projects to be completed in 2016 from 3 to 4, right? 33% increase, but still a quiet year. :-(


----------



## ChrisZwolle

To be completed in 2016;

* A1/A6 Diemen - Almere widening
* A2 Maastricht tunnel project
* A12 Ede - Arnhem widening
* N50 Ens - Emmeloord widening

It has been reported that a portion of the new A9 around Badhoevedorp could open within a couple of months, but only for traffic wanting to exit to A4, not yet for through traffic.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*

The first weeks with a completed A4 between Delft and Schiedam indicate an average traffic volume of 63,000 vehicles per day. 

Traffic volumes on A13 declined by 30,000 and traffic congestion went down considerably. It's not reported how much traffic has been reduced on secondary roads in the area.


----------



## da_scotty

The Rotterdamseweg/Schieweg on both banks of the Schie-River parallel to the A13 is a lot quieter at rush hour!


----------



## Suburbanist

How much traffic is A5 in Amsterdam carrying?


----------



## General Maximus

66.000 in 2014.


----------



## keokiracer

That's the older part passing Schiphol, I think Subi is referring to the newer Westrandweg section which carries roughly 35.000 vehicles per day.
Source


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*environmental zones*

A court has upheld Utrecht's decision to implement an environmental zone in the city. It bans diesel cars built before 1/1/2001. The court has noted that while positive effects on air quality have not been adequately demonstrated, the city has the right to introduce an environmental zone. The city of Rotterdam is also introducing an environmental zone similar to Utrecht.


----------



## General Maximus

Wouldn't it be a idea for the Netherlands (and other countries for that matter) to use the same TÜV plaquettes that the Germans are using for entry into cities? They only cost about 5 euros and it'll keep the dirt away from city centres everywhere.


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> A court has upheld Utrecht's decision to implement an environmental zone in the city. It bans diesel cars built before 1/1/2001. The court has noted that while positive effects on air quality have not been adequately demonstrated, the city has the right to introduce an environmental zone. The city of Rotterdam is also introducing an environmental zone similar to Utrecht.


Will it ban scooters that pollute more than older cars as well?


----------



## da_scotty

I feel like scooters are on there way out anyway. You see less and less youth on scooters. But it might be just me, but I only see pizza-couriers and lower-class 50+'ers.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Scooters are a major problem. Their number doubled since 2000 and still a large share have dirty two-stroke engines or are inefficiently limited, creating outrageous emissions. Two-stroke mopeds may emit 1000 - 2700 times (!!!) as much as a delivery van.

It's mind-boggling how they make a big deal out of diesel cars not meeting euro 6 standards, while we have massive amounts of mopeds emitting incredible amounts of particles and other pollutants, right in the face of cyclists. It is estimated that by 2020, mopeds emit more pollutants than all other traffic combined in Amsterdam.


----------



## Suburbanist

In my opinion, they should pass a law outlawing gasoline mopeds in, say, 7 or 10 years, and disallowing the sales of any new non-electric moped as of now. The aim should be a 100% electrical fleet of 2-wheeled vehicles.


----------



## MrAronymous

In 2018 Amsterdam wants to ban scooters made before 2011. Source

Opponents say that this is unfair as some of the cleanest 2010 scooters would be banned and a dirty 2011 one would not.


----------



## Suburbanist

MrAronymous said:


> In 2018 Amsterdam wants to ban scooters made before 2011. Source
> 
> Opponents say that this is unfair as some of the cleanest 2010 scooters would be banned and a dirty 2011 one would not.


You are probably right that pollution standards are better indicators than age of vehicle.


----------



## Slagathor

Yeah I agree. This is a solution proposed by clueless politicians. We need some real solutions. It can't be that hard to implement a policy where gas-powered scooters are phased out in favor of e-scooters and e-bikes.

Yesterday, I read an article in the Financial Times that mentioned innovative Taiwenese e-scooter company Gogoro has chosen Amsterdam as its European HQ. They mentioned the absence of a domestic car-industry (and lobby), the short commutes and the infrastructure as key reasons why they think their products would do well here. The potential is there, the market wants it... What are politicians waiting for?


----------



## Wilhem275

Just kick the damn scooters out of bike lanes, and that'll do it


----------



## McBeans

George Carlin putting things into perspective

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjmtSkl53h4


----------



## Kanadzie

Slagathor said:


> Yeah I agree. This is a solution proposed by clueless politicians. We need some real solutions. It can't be that hard to implement a policy where gas-powered scooters are phased out in favor of e-scooters and e-bikes.
> 
> Yesterday, I read an article in the Financial Times that mentioned innovative Taiwenese e-scooter company Gogoro has chosen Amsterdam as its European HQ. They mentioned the absence of a domestic car-industry (and lobby), the short commutes and the infrastructure as key reasons why they think their products would do well here. The potential is there, the market wants it... What are politicians waiting for?


If the markets want then they will just buy. Why does government need to do anything?

I think before the government goes out and destroys people's capital investments (e.g. scooter equipment) we should at least establish that there is a problem - TTBOMK air quality in NL is just fine, so why do _anything_?


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> Scooters are a major problem. Their number doubled since 2000 and still a large share have dirty two-stroke engines or are inefficiently limited, creating outrageous emissions. Two-stroke mopeds may emit 1000 - 2700 times (!!!) as much as a delivery van.
> 
> It's mind-boggling how they make a big deal out of diesel cars not meeting euro 6 standards, while we have massive amounts of mopeds emitting incredible amounts of particles and other pollutants, right in the face of cyclists. It is estimated that by 2020, mopeds emit more pollutants than all other traffic combined in Amsterdam.


That scooters are still not banned, and that the politicians are making themselves guilty of symbolic politics instead of going after the real polluters, is just so typical.... hno:

Cars are not the problem, but politically they are..... :bash:


----------



## snowdog

Wilhem275 said:


> Just kick the damn scooters out of bike lanes, and that'll do it


Sure, more congestion on the roads... While there are seas of free space on cycle paths in comparison...


Kanadzie said:


> If the markets want then they will just buy. Why does government need to do anything?
> 
> I think before the government goes out and destroys people's capital investments (e.g. scooter equipment) we should at least establish that there is a problem - TTBOMK air quality in NL is just fine, so why do _anything_?


I agree. 

As if the electricity for e-bikes and the production&transport of them and their raw materials (mainly the batteries) is such an environmentally friendly solution :bash:. It's just moving the problem.

People want to go from A to B, the growing popularity of scooters is proof that there is demand for this type of transport... 

It's the car all over again, first it's more freedom, mobility, and a sign of prosperity, and once it gets more popular suddenly it's a problem. 

Lets ban all efficient (in terms of mobility/speed) forms of transport from the cities hno: ! Let's go back to the time of horse carriages ****ting all over the streets .


Politicians and eco terrorists have a great way of selling the idea too (http://www.degezondestad.org/) saying they are only ''a few hundred euros more''and that riding on electricity is much cheaper...

A few hundred euros is the price of a two stroke moped, they can be had from 150 euros (2nd hand combustion is fine, while 2nd hand electric is asking for trouble with worn batteries)... And I highly doubt batteries will live over 5 years. I'd rather spend 150 on a moped + 150 ish per year on petrol+maintanance than ~1500 ish for a scooter with less range, and likely to need a battery replacement in a few years, not to mention higher risk of theft, higher insurance, and the logistical problem of not being able to charge it everywhere (while petrol is pretty much always available within range).


----------



## da_scotty

Did we strike a nerve there snowdog?


----------



## Slagathor

The guy has so many nerves it's like trying to make your way across a dense flowerbed without crushing anything.


----------



## snowdog

Always, mobility is being taken away from people or the costs are increased and people seem to be happy to bend over for politically correct ''issues'' like air quality. First it was cars, now the mopeds. Apparently it's forbidden to be mobile or faster than walking or cycling in cities. Then people are surprised the retailers and shops have a hard time and go bankrupt in cities because ordering from the internet is cheaper and better than going to town to shop...


----------



## Rebasepoiss

^^ Air quality is not a political issue as such, it's an environmental and public health issue.


----------



## g.spinoza

snowdog said:


> Then people are surprised the retailers and shops have a hard time and go bankrupt in cities because ordering from the internet is cheaper and better than going to town to shop...


Nonsense. Internet would be cheaper even if you go to town by car. Saying that promoting bikes and public transport creates the financial crisis is oh so wrong.


----------



## snowdog

Rebasepoiss said:


> ^^ Air quality is not a political issue as such, it's an environmental and public health issue.


Air quality has improved drastically the past decades and it's not been such an issue a few decades ago. It's being made an issue by left wing do gooders. You didn't hear so much people complaining in the 60's-80's...

The actual issue with public health, the huge rising costs because people live longer (and there are more and more non working vs working age), is not an issue apparently hno:. The last thing we need is even more health and social costs, increasing the life without raising the working age is terrible for the national budget.


g.spinoza said:


> Nonsense. Internet would be cheaper even if you go to town by car. Saying that promoting bikes and public transport creates the financial crisis is oh so wrong.


Going to town and back by car costs me about 1,50 in fuel (LPG) (2x10km), by moped about 50 cents, parking is what makes it so ridiculously expensive. If parking was free I'd buy MUCH more from town than online.

And I'm not saying that (where on earth did you get financial crisis from, I'm talking about the recent bankruptcy's of retailers), they're not promoting anything though, they're bullying superior forms of transport to force people to use inferior forms of transport (speed, practicality and cost wise) involuntarily. And cyclists will be next, there have been news stories in the past about complaints about parked bicycles and it's only a matter of time before the bullying of cyclists (fining, removing bikes, etc...) will grow larger and more areas will be designated as ''pedestrian'' areas.

If you make going to town more expensive and more a hassle then people will go to their suburban malls or online instead.


But my point is, people are being banned or milked from fast and comfortable ways to get from A to B that are supposed to be more cost-efficient, for ''issues'' that far less people cared about 40 years ago, issues that are pretty much non existent these days relatively.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

snowdog said:


> Air quality has improved drastically the past decades and it's not been such an issue a few decades ago. It's being made an issue by left wing do gooders. You didn't hear so much people complaining in the 60's-80's...


Except air quality *is* an issue. PM 2.5 annual mean concentration in Amsterdam, for example, is 80% higher than the WHO guidelines and that is not a safe limit either. Anything above 0 has a negative impact on human health.


----------



## g.spinoza

snowdog said:


> And I'm not saying that (where on earth did you get financial crisis from, I'm talking about the recent bankruptcy's of retailers),


Retailers go bankrupt when people can't buy because of the financial crisis. That's what's happening, cars or bikes make no difference.


----------



## keokiracer

g.spinoza said:


> Retailers go bankrupt when people can't buy because of the financial crisis. That's what's happening, cars or bikes make no difference.


Yeah right. The municipality here recently decided to up the prices (again) as well as expand the pay-to-park zone. This zone now includes a store where I used to buy my electronics. The high prices have now made it so that I've just bought new headphones (broke them earlier this morning icard: ) online. I wouldn't have if I didn't have to pay to park there. 
There's a tipping point where paying more (parking) for one-on-one service gets too pricy.

Though the bankruptcy of the retailers snovvdog is talking about surely isn't solely due the fact that these parking fees are getting out of control, it sure as hell is a big contributing factor.


----------



## snowdog

Rebasepoiss said:


> Except air quality *is* an issue. PM 2.5 annual mean concentration in Amsterdam, for example, is 80% higher than the WHO guidelines and that is not a safe limit either. Anything above 0 has a negative impact on human health.


It's being MADE an issue, priorities, apparently health is more important now than it was before. I disagree with that statement, the improved life expectancy is a far bigger problem due to rising health and social costs. Healthcare and social benefit costs (and thus also taxes) are out of control.

Health at the cost of prosperity and freedom... Political choices and mentality change...



g.spinoza said:


> Retailers go bankrupt when people can't buy because of the financial crisis. That's what's happening, cars or bikes make no difference.


No it's not, it's mainly the internet, webshops who flourish at the cost of actual retail shops, there a numerous examples of webshops who grew in size and profit significantly. Then the fact that going to the shops is becomign more costly is contributing. Would you rather spend 5 euros on parking, or 1 euro more on fuel to go to a different shop with free parking (or pay for postage and order from your lazy chair) ?


----------



## g.spinoza

keokiracer said:


> Yeah right. The municipality here recently decided to up the prices (again) as well as expand the pay-to-park zone. This zone now includes a store where I used to buy my electronics. The high prices have now made it so that I've just bought new headphones (broke them earlier this morning icard: ) online. I wouldn't have if I didn't have to pay to park there.
> There's a tipping point where paying more (parking) for one-on-one service gets too pricy.
> 
> Though the bankruptcy of the retailers snovvdog is talking about surely isn't solely due the fact that these parking fees are getting out of control, it sure as hell is a big contributing factor.


Is it really such an issue to go there by bike or public transport? Or are they means just for the poorest and you don't want to be regarded a such?


----------



## g.spinoza

snowdog said:


> No it's not, it's mainly the internet, webshops who flourish at the cost of actual retail shops. Then the fact that going to the shops is becomign more costly is contributing. Would you rather spend 5 euros on parking, or 1 euro more on fuel to go to a different shop with free parking (or pay for postage and order from your lazy chair) ?


I'd go by bus (unless I have to buy something very heavy), and spend nothing since I have a year-round ticket.


----------



## keokiracer

g.spinoza said:


> Is it really such an issue to go there by bike or public transport? Or are they means just for the poorest and you don't want to be regarded a such?


Public Transport is utter shite to that location and biking. It's just a pain in the ass to carry the stuff back home. We usually buy things in bulk (cause efficiency, why go somewhere 4 times if you can do it in 1 shot), I bought headphones online, my parents also bought 3 more things including a washing machine at another store (which didn't have the headphones I wanted), in another city outside of paid parking zones. 
It's often cheaper to buy it online anyways. My headphones cost me 49.99, the cheapest I could get them in a store was 65 euros. And shipping is free. Using crappy old headphones for 1 day to save 15 bucks is no problem for me.


----------



## g.spinoza

keokiracer said:


> Public Transport is utter shite to that location and biking. Bitch please, I cycle more a month than you do in a year. It's just a pain in the ass to carry the stuff back home. We usually buy things in bulk (cause efficiency, why go somewhere 4 times if you can do it in 1 shot), I bought headphones online, my parents also bought 3 more things including a washing machine at another store (which didn't have the headphones I wanted), in another city outside of paid parking zones.
> It's often cheaper to buy it online anyways. My headphones cost me 49.99, the cheapest I could get them in a store was 65 euros. And shipping is free. Using crappy old headphones for 1 day to save 15 bucks is no problem for me.


I agree with everything, but you don't know me and you don't know if and how much I cycle, so please restrain from writing sentences you know nothing about.


----------



## keokiracer

Sorry, that was uncalled for. Just getting pretty frustrated atm cause everything I touch seems to frikken break. Seems like another trip to the store tomorrow for a new keyboard and a new lamp (which I just broke).
It's one of those days hno:


----------



## g.spinoza

keokiracer said:


> Sorry, that was uncalled for. Just getting pretty frustrated atm cause everything I touch seems to frikken break. Seems like another trip to the store tomorrow for a new keyboard and a new lamp (which I just broke).
> It's one of those days hno:


:cheers:


----------



## snowdog

g.spinoza said:


> I'd go by bus (unless I have to buy something very heavy), and spend nothing since I have a year-round ticket.


Fair enough, I even went by car when PT was free for me for 5 years (student), public transport would double my commute time, ignoring the comfort and practicality issues. PT is something I only use when it's rubbish weather and car isn't an option (for whatever reason, mostly because I want to get drunk ).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Unusual road layout in the town of Culemborg, people are driving the wrong way.


----------



## Suburbanist

Speaking of which, when was the acquaduct in Alphen a/d Rijn built?

Another project in the region that could be helpful is linking N206 and N207 in Lisse or connecting N206 with N205 in Hoofdoorp. The pipe dream would be expand N206 into an expressway an bringing it to Haarlem.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The aquaduct at Alphen was built in 1998.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9, Amsterdam*

Works on the new 3 kilometer long Gaasper Tunnel in Amsterdam.


----------



## Suburbanist

What's the altitude of the lowest point in the tunnel? The area around Schiphol is up to -6m a.s.l.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A swing bridge at the Afsluitdijk (enclosure dam) at the Friesland side is malfunctioning. This means a significant detour, for example from Den Helder to Harlingen the closest alternate route is 200 kilometers long versus the regular 65 km.


----------



## General Maximus

Road is closed only from the point of the malfunctioning bridge? So traffic has to turn around?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 section control*

Section control or average speed measurement has been reinstated on the A4 motorway south of Amsterdam, between Hoofddorp and Nieuw-Vennep. The average speed is measured for 4.8 km in the direction of The Hague and 2.5 km in the direction of Amsterdam. The speed limit is 130 km/h day and night. 

This is the first section control in the Netherlands where a 130 km/h speed limit applies. Section control was formerly mostly used to enforce low speed limits.


----------



## Wilhem275

Please remind me, which tolerance % is applied?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They correct 3% at speeds over 100 km/h. However, on motorways with a 130 km/h speed limit, they will ticket you from 1 km/h too fast, instead of the usual 4 km/h. Still, you can drive 140 km/h on the speedometer of most cars before getting fined. And this stretch isn't known for the high driving speeds (bar a few speed junkies), so it remains to be seen whether this stretch of section control will actually result in meaningful revenue.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Buitenring Parkstad Limburg*

A nice photo of the new regional expressway around the Heerlen conurbation in southern Netherlands. The project is known as the _Buitenring Parkstad Limburg._


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15 Rotterdam*

The A15 'Maasvlakte - Vaanplein' or 'MaVa' project was officially inaugurated today. The project expanded the A15 motorway along the southern side of Rotterdam. They expanded it mainly from six to ten lanes, with a local/express system between Spijkenisse and the Vaanplein motorway interchange (A29). Traffic congestion was reduced by 60% compared to 2011, before the project started.










It is the most complex local/express system in the Netherlands, it features three motorway-to-motorway interchanges, numerous exits and a particular complex situation around the Benelux motorway interchange (A4). 

They built a new four-lane, 100 km/h Botlek Bridge to replace the antiquated 50 km/h Botlek Bridge. The new bridge is part of the motorway and complements the six-lane Botlek Tunnel. The new Botlek Bridge has seen over fifty malfunctions since it opened in mid-2015, however the number of incidents seems to have been reduced in recent months. 

They built left shoulder lanes between Spijkenisse and the Thomassen Tunnel. This portion would've been extraordinarily expensive to widen outside its retaining walls due to the presence of numerous pipelines. Due to the fact that there are many chemical plants and refineries in the Port of Rotterdam, a continuous right shoulder had to be preserved in case of a major incident.









Photo by De Fotograaf


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*speed limits*

The speed limits have been raised to 130 km/h today on the following stretches. A 130 km/h speed limit now applies to 61% of the motorway network. The goal is to introduce 130 km/h on 77% of the motorway network.










Some more stretches will be raised in the near future.

The A2 Holendrecht - Vinkeveen (south of Amsterdam) will be raised to 130 km/h between 19h and 6h, starting in May. This means you can drive 130 km/h from Amsterdam to Utrecht between those hours. It eliminates a stretch with a different speed limit. A permanent 130 km/h speed limit is being studied. 

The speed limit on the easternmost stretch of A12 will also be raised to 130 km/h (day and night) from Duiven to the German border.


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## peezet

Why isn't the A4 near Steenbergen included?


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Probably because it was just recently completed and they don't want to 'upset' people with raising the speed limit a year after it opened. Similar to the A2 Amsterdam - Utrecht saga.

The Botlek Bridge (A15) near Rotterdam at night:

Botlekbrug @ night by Mark van der Meer, on Flickr


----------



## BE0GRAD

ChrisZwolle said:


> Works on the new 3 kilometer long Gaasper Tunnel in Amsterdam.



Do you have a plan of the tunnel?


----------



## [atomic]

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/52.3064/4.9713
between the rail lines and the Weesp exit(1)


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## NielsC

Nice !


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## ChrisZwolle

The Gaasp Tunnel / Gaasper Tunnel is somewhat peculiar, it will be the longest land tunnel in the Netherlands, yet there was almost no public discussion about it. They just presented it as a part of the Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere (SAA) megaproject and the need or cost/benefit wasn't really discussed much. 

I think it's a bit over the top to construct such a long and complex (5 tubes) tunnel. The area where it runs through has a spatial planning with apartment buildings set apart by large open corridors and a park-like character that didn't work out very well in terms of demographics and crime. The A9 corridor is mostly 200 - 250 meters wide between the buildings, which is quite generous for an urban motorway. It could've been built without the tunnel. This will just be another empty open space, in a neighborhood that isn't exactly lacking that. 

This project has a huge budget (€ 5 billion) and they didn't cut corners on capacity, mitigation or design standards. The whole thing was accepted very easily.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9, Badhoevedorp*

The new A9 around Badhoevedorp is already significantly progressed, the first layers of asphalt are already poured. It will open in a few months for traffic from Haarlem towards Schiphol, so they can make room in the existing Badhoevedorp cloverleaf to reconstruct the interchange. It won't be a mainline opening, you won't be able to continue to A9 yet.










Bridgeworks across the A4:

Untitled by Wegenrein, on Flickr


----------



## Aumgn

NRC has a pretty cool visualisation of the effects on traffic flows of the newly opened A4 Midden-Delfland.


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## MrAronymous

Would be more expensive, especially considering the buildings and roads in the immediate vicinity, and thus not worth it.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A1/A27 widening*

The Council of State has approved the widening project of A1 and A27 today. It issued a verdict where they annulled the original environmental impact assessment (EIA), but it was already repaired with a supplemental EIA, leaving the project de-facto intact. 

It ruled that the '_legal effects of the EIA will be unaffected_' and the '_EIA remains in force_'. 

The € 261 million project is planned to start next year and will be completed between 2018 and 2020.










The Hoevelaken motorway interchange (A1/A28) near Amersfoort is not part of this project, but is a separate project with a separate schedule. However, to prevent eastbound A1 from narrowing down from 4 to 2 lanes at Amersfoort, they temporarily widened the A1 along the north side of Amersfoort to 3 lanes (eastbound only).


----------



## da_scotty

Still no proper A1-widening in Naarden if I am correct? Won't that be a giant bottleneck?


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## ChrisZwolle

There is shoulder running from Naarden to the Eemnes motorway interchange (A1/A27). A widening project is not actively planned there. There are three lanes during peak hour (i.e. most of the day) and they seem to be capable of handling the traffic through there.


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## EPA001

^^ But for how long will that solution at Naarden be sufficient?


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## ChrisZwolle

It's difficult to say. When comparing traffic volumes on each segment, the A1 Naarden - Eemnes carried about the same amount of traffic as A1 Eemnes - Amersfoort before widening (90,000 vehicles per day). The latter is planned with eight lanes, while the former has only four lanes plus shoulder running. You'd say both would need eight lanes. 

But there is a lot of space constraint through there. It is one of the wealthies areas of the Netherlands with a lot of political / media influence. Just like how they killed the A6 extension 'through' Lake Naarden (which in was reality planned to bypass the lake). The Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere megaproject is the result (massive widening of existing motorways).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Alkmaar*

The Nelson Mandela Bridge opened to traffic in the city of Alkmaar last Friday, February 12. It is claimed to be the largest movable composite bridge in the world. It connects an industrial area with the N242 expressway in Heerhugowaard. The construction cost was € 9.15 million. The movable bridge deck is 22.5 meters long. It is a 'table bridge'.


----------



## Des

Why not remove the Gouda exit completely to solve the issues there?


----------



## keokiracer

Yeah sure, I mean the exit only carries about 25000 vehicles/day directly to and from the A12, what could possibly go wrong?


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Nelson Mandela Bridge opened to traffic in the city of Alkmaar last Friday, February 12. It is claimed to be the largest movable composite bridge in the world. It connects an industrial area with the N242 expressway in Heerhugowaard. The construction cost was € 9.15 million. The movable bridge deck is 22.5 meters long. It is a 'table bridge'.


How much extra clearance is gained when the table section is elevated?


----------



## Wilhem275

keokiracer said:


> Yeah sure, I mean the exit only carries about 25000 vehicles/day directly to and from the A12, what could possibly go wrong?


We might also leave the exit there but remove the A12. That would solve the problem for sure. 

One gotta love the Internet for these moments... :nuts: :crazy:


----------



## Slagathor

RTL Nieuws has a few interesting articles today (featuring detailed interactive maps):

1) The most popular car brand per commune.
2) How many electric cars are registered in each commune?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They need to buy some new cars in the north and east 

My car has a CO2 emission of 98 g/km.


----------



## vespafrederic

Slagathor said:


> RTL Nieuws has a few interesting articles today (featuring detailed interactive maps):
> 
> 1) The most popular car brand per commune.
> 2) How many electric cars are registered in each commune?


Just a fun fact.

I bought 2 second-hand car from Netherlands, One Prius and one Plug-in Prius.


----------



## Slagathor

In quick succession because they keep breaking down? What are you driving now? 

That reminds me of an article I read a while ago that said used cars from the Netherlands are very popular in the rest of Europe. The good quality of the roads and the very flat landscape mean there's less wear-and-tear on tires, brakes, gears and more. Don't know how true that is, but it sounded plausible.


----------



## vespafrederic

Slagathor said:


> In quick succession because they keep breaking down? What are you driving now?
> 
> That reminds me of an article I read a while ago that said used cars from the Netherlands are very popular in the rest of Europe. The good quality of the roads and the very flat landscape mean there's less wear-and-tear on tires, brakes, gears and more. Don't know how true that is, but it sounded plausible.


One car for my wife and one for myself.

Used cars from Netherlands are a good choice, because of the good quality (facts you wrote), and the second-hand dealers are much better than in Germany and Austria. The whole process is much more transparent. They aren't playing with the mileages of the cars.


----------



## snowdog

That fact has changed for the worse the past few years.

More congestion, more traffic calming crap (suspension killers), and playing with mileages is a big thing here too. Tbh, all 2nd hand dealers I've had to do with were bad imho, much prefer to buy privately than from dealers.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I noticed that speed bumps in western Netherlands tend to be much less gentle and forgiving than those in the east. In my city you can drive practically all speed bumps in 2nd gear, even in residential streets, but I've seen many speed bumps in the west where you would have to switch back to first gear if you want to keep it comfortable and not make your nose hit the street (you can often spot the scratches...)


----------



## snowdog

It becomes even worse by the year, I remember in the old days eg. mid 90's, our cars never had suspension problems, by the time I started driving, all of our cars (before anyone makes the joke, even cars I don't or barely ever drive) wear suspension parts (and drivetrain parts) much quicker:

Ball joints.
Springs that break (more quickly than they used to)
Shocks that last only about 4-5 years, instead of 10+.
Link stabilizers.
CV joints.
Control Arms...

It's not just the speedbumps, it's also perfectly smooth tarmac roads being replaced by brick roads.

Every unnecessary shock is wear and tear...


----------



## Wilhem275

Cars are also getting much heavier.


----------



## vespafrederic

snowdog said:


> That fact has changed for the worse the past few years.
> 
> More congestion, more traffic calming crap (suspension killers), and playing with mileages is a big thing here too. Tbh, all 2nd hand dealers I've had to do with were bad imho, much prefer to buy privately than from dealers.


Maybe I had luck but that 2 car was ok. They had some damages so the insurance company sold them via auction as the repair was too expensive in Netherlands. So it means to worth to buy them and repair in east Europe. The mileages was ok I checked them with the Toyota dealership in the Netherlands.


----------



## Ni3lS

ChrisZwolle said:


> They need to buy some new cars in the north and east
> 
> My car has a CO2 emission of 98 g/km.


It all makes perfect sense, there is less economic prosperity and longer distances to drive on average (at least in the North). It also lacks proper infrastructure for EV's.

Seeing there are so many VW's up North, maybe dieselgate has something to do with the average emissions  (and the fact that there are probably more diesel cars per 100 inhabitants because of the longer distances). 

The town where I currently live has only one charging station. Often it's occupied, and if I get to use it takes well over 10-12 hours to charge a Tesla Model S. Usually that means driving all the way to Zwolle (75 km), for the nearest supercharger.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I had lunch at the Van der Valk Hotel in Zwolle with the Tesla Supercharger last week. All charging spots were occupied. I believe they have like 8 chargers.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N317 Doesburg*

The IJssel River Bridge at Doesburg reopens to traffic on Wednesday after a month-long closure to replace the bridge deck. The bridge was built in 1951 and its service life is now extended by another 30 years. It's somewhat unusual to perform this kind of work during the winter months, and the reopening of the bridge was delayed by 5 days due to inclement weather. It's still a quick project, to extend the life of a 65 year old bridge by another 30 years in just 1 month.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*The Hague squirrel bridge*

The € 144,000 squirrel bridge in The Hague was used by 2 squirrels in 2015. This is a decline compared to 2014, when it was used by 3 squirrels.


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> The € 144,000 squirrel bridge in The Hague was used by 2 squirrels in 2015. This is a decline compared to 2014, when it was used by 3 squirrels.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/7CAXaBh.jpg[img][/QUOTE]
> 
> How do these projects get funding :( ?
> 
> That money could have been spent on improving traffic light timings for busy junctions or ''green waves''.


----------



## vigiliant

That's 33% decrease in squirrel traffic  Good job Dutch engineers, now the two remaining critters will enjoy a reduced travel times between the hazelnuts and the home tree.


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## Wilhem275

I'm pretty sure the two squirrels decided to move at the same time and had to cross each other in mid bridge


----------



## Innsertnamehere

gotta admit, the funniest thing I've seen on this forum in a long time.


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## renroz

I've heard before about this kind of money wasting bridges. This isn't the first time it went wrong. 

It isn't that easy to get any influence in nature-things!


----------



## Rebasepoiss

I'm all for the nature preserving aspect of it but why did this brige have to be so grandiose? Squirrels are perfectly fine running down (insulated) electrical wires, for example.


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## Ypenhof

@rebasepoiss: next time we will build these grandiose bridges exclusively for foxes, eks ole?!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen*

The Council of State has dismissed nearly all appeals against the construction of a 4 kilometer segment of 2x2, 100 km/h N35 expressway from Zwolle to Wijthmen. A small dispute need to be settled in regard to a noise barrier. Which has to be resolved within 16 weeks. 

Most appeals were from farmers who would lose direct access to or across N35 and would need to take a longer detour to access their land. Some appeals were from businesses who were afraid they were going to lose business due to being less visible from the road. One appeal was rather funny, a sauna was afraid that their naked guests would be visible from the overpass at the planned Wijthmen interchange. The dispute was settled by planting some trees.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Drachtsterweg, Leeuwarden*

There are a lot of problems with the construction of an aquaduct (waterway underpass) at the 'Drachtsterweg' in the northern city of Leeuwarden. The planned opening of the aquaduct has been delayed several times and is now planned for late 2016. It was originally planned in May 2015, then late 2015, then early 2016 and apparently now late 2016. It must be said that the original schedule was ambitious; works started in February 2014.

They had problems;
* with the soil, which was more difficult than anticipated
* leakages; the construction site flooded a couple of times
* the adjacent bridge has subsided
* piling on the north side has fractured, they need to replace 300 piles.

The cost overrun has been over € 5 million, and the delay is now estimated at 1.5 years at least. The province may pursue legal action against the constructor Heijmans.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N303 Voorthuizen*

The Council of State has dismissed the appeals agains the construction of a bypass of the town of Voorthuizen in Gelderland province. The N303 is planned to bypass Voorthuizen on the west. The cost was estimated at € 23 million. This would take over 10,000 vehicles per day out of the town. N303 carries a lot of regional traffic and is a time-consuming route, it goes through Putten and Ermelo as well.

A separate municipal project is the northern bypass that would link N303 with N344, which was approved by the Council of State in 2014.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Ede - Arnhem*

Some photos of the A12 Ede - Arnhem widening project by the constructor Heijmans:










The Oosterbeek exit:









The motorway is quite old.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Muiden*

The new 12-lane A1 under construction near Muiden (5+2+5)


----------



## Surel

Ypenhof said:


> @rebasepoiss: next time we will build these grandiose bridges exclusively for foxes, eks ole?!


No bear ecoducts yet? Just € 20 mil a pop. 

Many of these projects have one real reason only. Someone gets paid for them.


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## Ypenhof

Surel said:


> No bear ecoducts yet? Just € 20 mil a pop.


That was an insider joke only, Surel: 'Rebasepoiss' in Estonian means 'fox youngster'


----------



## Suburbanist

Tilburg municipality put some "funky" road signs for carnival earlier this month.









Source: Brabants Dagblaad via Twitter

Here how it looked on actual display

I don't like this sort of customization of road signs aimed at car drivers, they should all adhere to guidelines.


----------



## Suburbanist

2025 might be too early, but 2030 should be a good date to ban sales of new ICE cars. Before that, increasingly higher taxes should be used to reduce demand for ICE and shift it towards electric-powered cars. 

I'm now convinced the future of car is electric, denying it is like the situation of a person aggressively saying, in 1905, that horse-drawn carriages were there to stay and that attempts to ban horses from city areas were unacceptable.


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## Kanadzie

^^ why so? In 1905 people were saying aggressively electric cars were to stay and will win over ICE too  ICE still has considerable development room in it... if you can cut emissions by half and improve fuel efficiency by 20 % vs today, is electric even interesting anymore?

And of course, why should bans and taxes be used instead of letting the market decide automatically?


----------



## Suburbanist

ICEs will never solve the problem of point-of-use emission...


----------



## Slagathor

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ why so? In 1905 people were saying aggressively electric cars were to stay and will win over ICE too  ICE still has considerable development room in it... if you can cut emissions by half and improve fuel efficiency by 20 % vs today, is electric even interesting anymore?
> 
> And of course, why should bans and taxes be used instead of letting the market decide automatically?


Banning them is pretty stupid, but imo it's entirely reasonable to tax fossil fuels more than we're currently doing. We tax things that have a negative (financial) impact on society (like alcohol and cigarettes burdening the health care system), and fossil fuel emissions are on that list. 

And let's not forget that the market isn't currently deciding anything. We're still _subsidizing_ fossil fuels. That's completely backwards.


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## Koesj

Why are we having a vehicular discussion when there's actual megaprojects to be commented on?


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## ChrisZwolle

*speed limits*

Another segment of motorway has been increased to 130 km/h, day and night. An 11 kilometer segment of A1 between Soest and Hoevelaken (near Amersfoort) is now limited at 130.

It used to be a confusing mix of 100, 120 and 130 km/h on this stretch, depending on the time of day.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A10, Amsterdam*

h/t to Koesj, the final EIA of A10 in Amsterdam has been published. 

They managed to include two through lanes on the local lanes of A10. They originally planned two lanes in the tunnel, but only one through lane at the S108 and S109 exits. There are now two continuous lanes. They have a very tight workspace for this project.

The images evolve west to east. 

1. The 'De Nieuwe Meer' motorway interchange (A4/A10)









2. The S108 interchange. The blue part denotes the 12 lane tunnel. Notice the very tight ramps at the S108 interchange.









3. The eastern end of the tunnel.









4. The S109 interchange and Rozenoord Bridge (17 lanes) across the Amstel River.









5. The western part of the 'Amstel' motorway interchange (A2/A10). A complex situation.









6. A bit zoomed out to show the entire Amstel motorway interchange.


----------



## Koesj

As much as the spatial aspects of this project have been bungled (only the motorway goes underground, rail will still be a massive barrier; lotsa cash for only a couple of extra lanes) I'm still in awe that these kinds of >1b€ megaprojects can be done in this rigidly overplanned country


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Rozenoord Bridge had only 4 lanes until 1989.... and will now expand to 17 lanes.

Late 1980s photo:


----------



## MrAronymous

Koesj, remember that this project is not only done because motorway capacity needs to be increased, it's also done for the quality of life in the area + to be able to expand current railway infrastructure and to have the possibility to the build highrise buildings over the railway tracks in the future. This is a small part of a bigger plan. Still a lot of money though.


----------



## Koesj

MrAronymous said:


> Koesj, remember that this project is not only done because motorway capacity needs to be increased, it's also done for the quality of life in the area + to be able to expand current railway infrastructure and to have the possibility to the build highrise buildings over the railway tracks in the future. This is a small part of a bigger plan. Still a lot of money though.


Quality of life - okay, but it's mostly officeworkers in shitty industries next to the current embankment. I don't really give a toss about their view. Railway infrastructure is already being expanded though and they didn't need to move the A10 for that, or do you think we're going to see six continuous tracks along the mainline? Highrise buildings on top of the corridor I don't believe: A. it's permit hell and B. I don't think this plan makes it possible to build on top of the road tunnels anyway. 

Bottom line for me is that it'd _better_ have been a (already large) part of a giant plan: as a continuous spatial concept, with road and rail underground together, with provisions for real estate-development, etc. What we get now though fits like the proverbial flag on a broomstick.


----------



## MrAronymous

You need to visit the Amsterdam subforum more often then, there's plenty of housing units under construction.

And yes I do think they will expand rail. The plan was to have an international train have its final stop here as well, so some extra platforms could be very needed. The plan still is to make Amsterdam Zuid the second largest and second most important rail station in Amsterdam. 4 Platforms isn't gonna cut it.

I never said they were going to build on the road tunnels, because they won't. They'll put regular streets and tram tracks there. You think there would have been plans for years to do this (building highrise above the rail) without it being possible? It's either possible, or they will make it possible. It's technically possible though, just look at Hudsons Yards in NYC. And why is it so hard to believe they're doing this project in phases? Just this tunnel alone - phase 1 - is mega expansive/expensive. Even if they leave the train station above ground this tunnel is very welcome. It isn't as big of a boondoggle compared to say, A4 Delft-Schiedam or A9 Gaasperdammertunnel.


----------



## The Polwoman

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Rozenoord Bridge had only 4 lanes until 1989.... and will now expand to 17 lanes.
> 
> Late 1980s photo


I didn't even know that the RAI railway station as we know today was only constructed around 1993, I always thought that it was from 1981 as is the most of the railway west from Amsterdam RAI.


----------



## Koesj

The last point I'll agree to, the others I can imagine in some sense, but I don't consider very well-thought out with regard to this road tunnel.

I think we both want the same thing: a very vibrant Zuidas.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1, Muiden*

Some recent photos of the A1 realignment east of Amsterdam. The new A1 will feature 12 lanes, in a 5+2+5 layout with two reversible lanes (7 lanes in the peak direction). The official completion date is 2020, but it appears that this could open much earlier.


----------



## Suburbanist

Does anybody have data about how traffic between Antwerp/Den Haag re-accommodated after some months of a fully functioning A4?

Are there substantially more traffic going through A4/A15/A4 to avoid the worse bottlenecks on A20/A16?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A24 Blankenburg Link*

The final EIA for the construction of the new A24 west of Rotterdam has been signed on 28 March 2016 and is open for appeals starting 7 April.

There are no significant changes from the draft EIA which was published in September 2015. One connector road within the A15-A24 interchange was moved slightly. 

The A24 is a motorway with six lanes and a 100 km/h design speed. It includes two tunnels, the Aalkeet Tunnel and the river-crossing Blankenburg Tunnel. The Blankenburg Tunnel has a closed length of 945 meters. The Aalkeet Tunnel has a closed length of 510 meters. The Blankenburg Tunnel is an immersed tunnel. The southern entrance of the tunnel is very steep due to pipelines in the area. Moving those pipelines would result in 'possibly unmanageable risk'. There will be climbing lanes to accommodate slow trucks.

The tunnel will be a toll road, the first motorway toll in the Netherlands since 1980. Tolls will pay a share of the investment (€ 315 million will be paid through tolls). The toll rates are estimated at € 1.18 for passenger cars and € 7.11 for trucks. It is expected that the toll component will be paid off after 25 years, the tunnel will then become toll-free. The toll collection will be 'open road tolling' with no toll plazas.


----------



## sponge_bob

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Rozenoord Bridge had only 4 lanes until 1989.... and will now expand to 17 lanes.
> 
> Late 1980s photo:


The Dutch evidently had a massive land reservation ready for any such expansion according to that photo.

Do your 17 lanes include the high speed railway twin track bridge built in the middle of that land reservation nowadays..that factory shown waterside is long gone. ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*the age of mega projects*

Four € 1 billion+ motorway projects will move forward this year.

*A27, Utrecht*
The draft EIA of the A27 widening along the east side of Utrecht has been signed. It will be published on 10 May. It is planned to widen the motorway to *14 lanes* and significantly unweave the traffic flows between A12 and A28. This is a highly congested stretch of motorway. It will address no less than 5 bottlenecks noted in the Traffic Jam Top 50. It is a *€ 1.1 billion* project.

*A24, Rotterdam*
The final EIA has been signed for the construction of the A24 motorway west of Rotterdam (see previous post). It is a *€ 1.2 billion project*

*A13-A16, Rotterdam*
The final EIA will be signed for the A16 extension north of Rotterdam 'before summer'. This will extend the motorway along the north side of Rotterdam and link it up with A13. This will relieve A20 and address several top 10 traffic jams. It is a *€ 1 billion* project.

*A10, Amsterdam*
The final EIA has been signed for the A10 tunneling and widening to *12 lanes* in southern Amsterdam (see earlier posts). It is a *€ 1.9 billion* project.

*A1, A6, A9 Amsterdam-Almere*
Meanwhile construction is going at a frantic pace to widen A1, A6 & A9 south and east of Amsterdam (Schiphol-Amsterdam-Almere). The reversible lane on A9 will open soon so it can handle the traffic once the A1 realignment near Muiden opens to traffic. A1 will be widened to *12 lanes* and A9 will be widened to *10 lanes*. This is a *€ 5 billion* project.


----------



## Koesj

sponge_bob said:


> The Dutch evidently had a massive land reservation ready for any such expansion according to that photo.
> 
> Do your 17 lanes include the high speed railway twin track bridge built in the middle of that land reservation nowadays..that factory shown waterside is long gone. ?


I think the 'factory' is the second highway bridge being built?

Neither the new twin track, nor the metro tracks (which were added after that photo was taken) are included in Chris' numbers:


----------



## flierfy

MrAronymous said:


> And yes I do think they will expand rail. The plan was to have an international train have its final stop here as well, so some extra platforms could be very needed. The plan still is to make Amsterdam Zuid the second largest and second most important rail station in Amsterdam. 4 Platforms isn't gonna cut it.


One won't just be able to make use of more than 4 tracks at Amsterdam Zuid as long as Schiphol isn't widened beyond its current 6 track layout. Neither do the current works at the metro station suggest that there will ever be more mainline tracks at Amsterdam Zuid. The station is set to remain what it currently is.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Knooppunt Beekbergen*

_Rijkswaterstaat_ has awarded the reconstruction of the Beekbergen motorway interchange (A1/A50) near Apeldoorn to Heijmans. The project will reconstruct the interchange from a cloverleaf with 4 loops to a cloverleaf with 3 loops and one semi-direct connector for the heaviest turning flow (east to south). 

It is a design-construct contract, based on Best Value Procurement. Heijmans did not offered the lowest price, but the best construction plan with the least traffic impact. 

Some early works started in March, full-scale construction will start after the summer and continue into 2017. The contract value has not been disclosed, it has been budgeted at € 31 million. It is the first phase to widen A1 all the way from Apeldoorn to Hengelo to six / eight lanes.


----------



## Attus

ChrisZwolle said:


> The tunnel will be a toll road, the first motorway toll in the Netherlands since 1980. Tolls will pay a share of the investment (€ 315 million will be paid through tolls). The toll rates are estimated at € 1.18 for passenger cars and € 7.11 for trucks. It is expected that the toll component will be paid off after 25 years, the tunnel will then become toll-free. The toll collection will be 'open road tolling' with no toll plazas.


How can/shall foreigners pay the toll?


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## ChrisZwolle

There will be a license plate based tolling system (ANPR), likely similar to AutoPASS in Norway or the Dart Charge in the United Kingdom, where you can pay online. They do not plan to use transponders, but people creating an account can automatically pay their tolls. 

Pan-European enforcement is somewhat unclear, they want to use the EUCARIS system. They noted that some EU countries are opposed to enforcement of traffic fines issued in other countries. They plan to use a debt collection agency for unpaid tolls by foreign drivers.


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## Attus

^^Thanks. I live in Western Germany, I may use that tunnel once, or perhaps twice (I mean when it will ready). Paying 1€ and some cents is OK, but if I have to register, fill some forms, etc., for paying 1 euro, it would be hilarious.


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## Koesj

ChrisZwolle said:


> _Rijkswaterstaat_ has awarded the reconstruction of the Beekbergen motorway interchange (A1/A50) near Apeldoorn to Heijmans (...)


There goes another one of the Netherlands' full cloverleafs :cheers:


----------



## WillBuild

Suburbanist said:


> Does anybody have data about how traffic between Antwerp/Den Haag re-accommodated after some months of a fully functioning A4?
> 
> Are there substantially more traffic going through A4/A15/A4 to avoid the worse bottlenecks on A20/A16?


It doesn't answer your exact question on A4 vs A16. But there is some data that it has a regional effect: 20%, or 30.000, fewer cars on the A13 between Rotterdam and the Hague (ad.nl). Overall, traffic delays in the Rotterdam metro dropped by 20% as a result, with the A13 no longer in the top 50.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Infrastructure fund*

There are talks about extending the infrastructure fund from 2028 to 2030, which means planning could start for an additional € 10 - 12 billion worth of infrastructure projects. Based on the current division of the fund, this would result in about € 4 - 5 billion in road projects in 2028-2030 (including maintenance).

No official list of road projects eligible for funding has been announced, but the current government indicates they want to include the widening of A20 to six lanes between Gouda and Rotterdam.


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## ChrisZwolle

*knooppunt Hooipolder*

North Brabant province presented a plan to address the traffic problems at the Hooipolder motorway interchange (A27/A59) north of Breda. It is currently a diamond interchange where traffic on A59 has to go through traffic signals. In addition, all turning movements have to go through a traffic signal.

Traffic is particularly backed up when a lot of people go to the 'Efteling', an amusement park near Waalwijk. Regular congestion is fairly limited, which is one reason why the national government never gave much priority to build a proper motorway-to-motorway interchange. 

The plans submitted by North Brabant province;

1) a direct connector for traffic on A59 east to A27 north 
2) widening of A27 to six lanes north of the Hooipolder interchange (already planned)
3) closing exit 34 (Raamsdonksveer) due to the very short distance to the Hooipolder interchange
4) A new access road to Raamsdonksveer to make up for lost access
5) Widening of A59 to six lanes near the traffic signals
6) A new road parallel to A59 between Raamsdonk and Waspik


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A28 Meppel - Hoogeveen*

I took some photos from viaducts across A28 yesterday.

This segment of A28 opened in two phases in 1976 and 1979 and was the last part of A28 in Northern Netherlands to be completed. Present-day traffic volumes fluctuate between 52,000 and 56,000 vehicles per day, including over 10,000 trucks.


A28 Slenkenweg-4 by European Roads, on Flickr


A28 Schiphorst-4 by European Roads, on Flickr


A28 Schiphorst-1 by European Roads, on Flickr


A28 Lankhorst-4 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> The plans submitted by North Brabant province;
> 
> 1) a direct connector for traffic on A59 east to A27 north
> 2) widening of A27 to six lanes north of the Hooipolder interchange (already planned)
> 3) closing exit 34 (Raamsdonksveer) due to the very short distance to the Hooipolder interchange
> 4) A new access road to Raamsdonksveer to make up for lost access
> 5) Widening of A59 to six lanes near the traffic signals
> 6) A new road parallel to A59 between Raamsdonk and Waspik


Too bad that not all the traffic lights will be removed here. But that is maybe a combination of limited budget and little space in the area? Overall this is a badly needed huge improvement over the current situation, but without the traffic lights it would be even better.


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## g.spinoza

Is it true that the Netherlands wants to forbid the selling of petrol and diesel cars from 2025? I read that on an Italian newspaper...


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## ChrisZwolle

That was a proposal from the Labour Party. It was met with great skepticism. They are decimated in the polls for a long time now, polls consistently indicate the Labour Party will face a loss of two-thirds of its seats and is heading for the worst result of all time. Elections are not until March 2017 though. Labour tends to try to lure voters from GreenLeft, both parties have a significant interchangeable voter base.


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## Wilhem275

Turns out my thesis will be about externalities of urban traffic. In Den Haag. I swear, I didn't mean it


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## Slagathor

Good god why would you do that to yourself? 



ChrisZwolle said:


> That was a proposal from the Labour Party. *It was met with great skepticism.* They are decimated in the polls for a long time now, polls consistently indicate the Labour Party will face a loss of two-thirds of its seats and is heading for the worst result of all time. Elections are not until March 2017 though. Labour tends to try to lure voters from GreenLeft, both parties have a significant interchangeable voter base.


Uhm, aren't you forgetting to mention that the motion was passed in parliament with a considerable majority?

To be perfectly clear: the motion urges the government to "strive towards a situation where every new car being sold is emissions-free by the year 2025."

The motion does *not* ban fossil fuel cars; otherwise the Socialists (SP) and the Democrats (D66) would not have supported it.


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ It was originally proposed by Labour to actually ban gasoline and diesel. The wording was significantly toned down in the actual motion.

The problem with electric cars is that they are not affordable for most people. The Tesla Model 3, which will likely be priced around € 40.000 excluding BPM tax, is _not_ an affordable car for the majority of the Dutch population.

The great majority of Dutch people do not drive a company car and rarely shop over the € 25,000+ price level for private use. Presently only 0.1% of all passenger cars are battery electric cars, and they are practically all used with a business arrangement. It's way too premature to call an end to the fossil fuel era.

Another problem with electric car popularity is that they will cost the government a huge amount of revenue, between € 15 and 20 billion annually if the current incentives are maintained and the entire fleet would be battery electric. It's financially not sustainable to keep the current incentives for electric cars once they get much more popular. So eventually these taxes will go up, or they will introduce new taxes, so it's questionable how much cheaper electric cars will be in the future without all these government incentives or replacement taxes to make up for lost revenue.


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## Wilhem275

I copied the last two posts to my Italian forum, because newspapers reported the story as "By 2025 only electric cars in NL - Fully confirmed" hno:



Slagathor said:


> Good god why would you do that to yourself?


LOL, it was pretty random. We have to choose from a list of articles to base our thesis on, and I opened "Urban traffic externalities" because the title got my attention.
Then I read "Leidschendam", "Voorburg", "Utrechtsebaan"... Mmhhh, this sounds familiar :lol:

The article itself pointed out how the opening of the N14 bypass (between A4 and N44) generated a sensible raise in housing value of the residential roads relieved by traffic.
From this I have several ideas to expand the research, for example with a projection of how a similar effect might be seen on the Rijswijkseweg once Rotterdamsebaan + Neherkade will be fully operational; and also other projects can be taken into it.
Other points I may add is how the added housing value shifts (a bit of) the cost/benefit ratio of the road project, and how a bypass is one of the few radical ways to reduce the negative externalities of traffic (which are almost never paid for by drivers themselves).

Needless to say, you people will hear many questions from me in the next weeks... especially about sources for traffic volumes and housing prices :cheers:


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## g.spinoza

Ban diesel and petrol cars doesn't automatically mean you have to have an electric one. There's LPG, methane, biofuels...


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## Kanadzie

g.spinoza said:


> Is it true that the Netherlands wants to forbid the selling of petrol and diesel cars from 2025? I read that on an Italian newspaper...


talk radio in Canada was ranting about it last evening when I was driving home...

I was like, hey, I heard that on SSC :lol:


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## JB1981

g.spinoza said:


> Ban diesel and petrol cars doesn't automatically mean you have to have an electric one. There's LPG, methane, biofuels...


...Trains


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## g.spinoza

JB1981 said:


> ...Trains


Try to go by train where there are no tracks


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## Slagathor

Wilhem275 said:


> LOL, it was pretty random. We have to choose from a list of articles to base our thesis on, and I opened "Urban traffic externalities" because the title got my attention.
> Then I read "Leidschendam", "Voorburg", "Utrechtsebaan"... Mmhhh, this sounds familiar :lol:
> 
> The article itself pointed out how the opening of the N14 bypass (between A4 and N44) generated a sensible raise in housing value of the residential roads relieved by traffic.
> From this I have several ideas to expand the research, for example with a projection of how a similar effect might be seen on the Rijswijkseweg once Rotterdamsebaan + Neherkade will be fully operational; and also other projects can be taken into it.
> Other points I may add is how the added housing value shifts (a bit of) the cost/benefit ratio of the road project, and how a bypass is one of the few radical ways to reduce the negative externalities of traffic (which are almost never paid for by drivers themselves).
> 
> Needless to say, you people will hear many questions from me in the next weeks... especially about sources for traffic volumes and housing prices :cheers:


Well, best of luck. I'm sure it'll be... something.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N62 Westerschelde Tunnel*

Inhabitants of Zeeland province started a campaign to de-toll the Westerschelde Tunnel / Western Scheldt Tunnel (N62). At 6.6 kilometers, it is by far the longest road tunnel in the Netherlands. The toll is € 5 cash and € 3.80 with a toll tag. Frequent users pay € 3.05. The tunnel is tolled in both directions.

The tunnel opened to traffic in 2003 and is operated by Westerscheldetunnel N.V. which is 100% owned by Zeeland province. Out of the € 750 million investment, € 280 million has currently been repaid by tolls. The original plan was to keep the tolls until 2033. 

I filmed the tunnel last year:


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## Suburbanist

Who they want to pick the tab in lieu of tolls? The province? RWS? What are the arguments beyond "we want to drive for free"


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## Coccodrillo

That's comprehensible, in countries where only some roads are tolled. There are now proposals to toll the Gotthard tunnel*, but Ticino doesn't want it. I wonder if there are similar protests around Austrian Sondermaut sections (I think not, because locals have very strong discounts).

*in addition to the vignette, which may increase in future


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## ChrisZwolle

With a possible toll in Belgium on passenger cars, Zeeuws-Vlaanderen / Zeelandic Flanders feels wedged between toll roads. 

Zeelandic Flanders is the southernmost part of Zeeland province. Their only road link to the rest of the Netherlands is this toll tunnel. The other logical link via Antwerp is also tolled (Liefkenshoek Tunnel). So they either need to detour via the Kennedy Tunnel or accept paying tolls.


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## Slagathor

I'm for a toll cut for people who live in Zeeuws-Vlaanderen. If you're registered as a resident of that area, you shouldn't have to pay tolls. 

But all the through-traffic between Rotterdam and Antwerp should keep paying; the province really needs the revenue now that its other assets are in deep trouble (especially the energy company Delta).


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## keokiracer

Slagathor said:


> I'm for a toll cut for people who live in Zeeuws-Vlaanderen. If you're registered as a resident of that area, you shouldn't have to pay tolls.


Fully disagreed. Housing prices in Zeeuws-Vlaanderen are very low, (partially due to the extra costs, that being ferry costs or tunnel tolls), lower than in the rest of Zeeland, so people that wanted to live there knew what they were getting into and got lower housingprices as a return for that. If you 'forens' everyday from Terneuzen towards Vlissingen then you should've either gotten a slightly more expensive house somewhere else in Zeeland or pay the tolls in exchange for a lower housing price.

This seem to be the same type of people that go and live very closely to a highway (as the houses are cheaper) and then start continuously whining about the highway they decided to live next to...


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## Slagathor

^^ Not a comparable situation. 

First of all, it's a community in its own right. You present it as if it were a choice that people live there, but I don't think you can fault people for wanting to stay in the place where they were born and where all their family lives.

Secondly, the locals were perfectly content with the ferry connections that used to exist between Vlissingen and Breskens, and between Kruiningen and Perkpolder. Much like the people from the Waddeneilanden, nobody ever complained that they had to pay for the ferry charge, which was reasonable and offered better subscriptions.

The tunnel is expensive and the ferries are gone. 

Meanwhile, centralization has caused all kinds of facilities to disappear. The hospital is gone, they only have a clinic down there now. Similarly the Zeeland College (Hogeschool Zeeland) only has a pretty pathetic little seat in Terneuzen these days. Even many shops have closed in recent years and are now only available North of the Westerschelde. If you wanna do a little DIY on a Saturday and you need something from Praxis; sorry, you gotta go through the tunnel.

Nor are the houses actually a great deal cheaper (see this map). If you compare a pretty standard rowhouse in the centrally located towns of Arnemuiden (outside Middelburg) and Hoek (outside Terneuzen), the price is almost identical. 

No comparable situation exists anywhere else in the country.


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## ChrisZwolle

You could argue that motorists pay enough taxes to make tolls an unnecessary financing method. Unfortunately these taxes are funneled to the general budget, they are not a special purpose tax. So people are dependent on the government to spend it (un)wisely. 

Though there are more options to citizens in Zeelandic Flanders than to go north. Belgium has a lot of facilities available within reasonable driving range. Even Albert Heijn is in Belgium.


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## Slagathor

True  but don't underestimate the difficulty and the paperwork when you want to go to a hospital in Belgium or study at the university in Ghent as a Dutch citizen. The EU is all well and good for corporations, but regular people still face plenty of road blocks.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A22 Velser Tunnel*

The large-scale renovation of the oldest motorway tunnel in the Netherlands starts tonight. The Velser Tunnel opened in 1957, it is a twin-tube tunnel under the North Sea Canal. A22 runs through it. 

There are two motorway tunnels within close proximity, the Velser Tunnel (A22) and the Wijker Tunnel (A9). The Velsen Tunnel carries 66,000 vehicles per day and is most important for commuter traffic into the IJmond Region and the city of Haarlem. The Wijker Tunnel carries 58,000 vehicles per day and opened in 1996. It carries mainly longer distance traffic. 

The Velser Tunnel will be closed to all traffic for 9 months. Capacity in the Wijker Tunnel has been increased to six lanes by converting the shoulder into a driving lane. They also added temporary ramps at the Velsen and Beverwijk motorway interchanges to allow traffic to turn. 

The tunnel will be completely stripped. The entire pavement will be removed, and a portion of the concrete bottom will also be removed to increase the clearance by 12 centimeters. They will also change the ventilation system, from transversal to longitudinal ventilation. They will also create new escape routes between both tubes. 

The tunnel will reopen in early 2017. It won't need another major overhaul until 2045.


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## Suburbanist

Do toll and ferry facilities owe VAT on the fares? I think government should collect VAT on these sort of access fees (same way universities don't collect VAT on tuition).


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## ChrisZwolle

*Maastricht*

A major project in the city of Maastricht besides the A2 tunnel is the reconstruction of the road infrastructure in the northwestern quadrant of the city. The Northern Bridge (Dutch: _Noorderbrug_), built in 1984, will remain at the current location, but the approach on the west side will be moved north. The bridge corridor will also be widened to six lanes. They will also build a new road towards Lanaken (Belgium). 

The goal is to relieve two streets which form a part of the city ring road (Statensingel & Hertogsingel). The project cost is € 168 million, the works last from 2015 to 2017.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A9, Amsterdam*

An aerial photo of the construction on the A9 (_Gaasperdammerweg_). The four-lane motorway with shoulder running is being put underground in a 10 lane tunnel with reversible lanes. It is the most complex part of the 'Schiphol-Amsterdam-Almere' € 5 billion mega project.

Traffic will use the reversible lane, here seen under construction on the left, from 2 May. This project is going at a frantic pace, they did not start large-scale construction until September 2015.


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## Ni3lS

ChrisZwolle said:


> That was a proposal from the Labour Party. It was met with great skepticism. They are decimated in the polls for a long time now, polls consistently indicate the Labour Party will face a loss of two-thirds of its seats and is heading for the worst result of all time. Elections are not until March 2017 though. Labour tends to try to lure voters from GreenLeft, both parties have a significant interchangeable voter base.


It's an interesting topic that could potentially have great consequences for our country's infrastructure and economy. I value the government's interest in trying to reduce CO2 emissions although I feel like motions like this one aren't helping at all. The EU has been a pain to the automotive industry for years now with ever changing CO2 regulations while in my opinion they should focus on the real pollution; Farming and coal fueled power plants. 

I think effectively car emissions contribute a small fraction to the total CO2 emissions in the Netherlands and Europe. I think time and money are better spent going after the real pollution rather than coming up with all kinds of regulations, rules and subsidies that don't work. A nice example are the subsidies for plug-in hybrids that have been going on for years that have now proven to be an absolute joke. They're great value for businesses that lease cars, sure, but it absolutely defeats the purpose. People that lease such cars just do it out of fiscal motives, not so much to help nature. What happens next is that most Plug-in hybrid drivers don't charge their cars which means they run on the combustion engine only, which needs to take more fuel because of the missing electrical boost resulting in an average more CO2 emissions.

Sure the government have caught up by now that human beings aren't as rational as they think they would be and misusing the cars because they simply don't care, resulting in an even worse environmental impact than ever before. Now the subsidies will disappear from next year onwards, after having created a market for these plug-in hybrids and letting spend car manufacturers billions into the development and production of these cars to find out that they will be useless in a matter of years, especially once the fully electrical cars and hydrogen / green gas cars will start to pick up pace.

I'm afraid that his ambitious motion for 2025 is a similar and stupid goal of equal magnitude. I speak from experience when saying that fully electrical cars (Tesla) aren't as green as they are believed to be. Electricity needs to come from somewhere and Tesla are quite the performance oriented car maker. The extra performance leads to more use of electricity and more frequent charging. I don't know if any of you have ever handled a Tesla supercharger, the cable is almost twice as thick as my underarm. I have experienced a peak of 312 Amps at a time fully charging a Tesla in a few minutes time and only taking an hour or two to completely drain the battery. With a full Tesla battery you can power your entire house for an estimated two weeks to put things into perspective.

I'm not even talking about the electricity and emissions it takes to produce the car's lithium ion batteries or all other components. Also, I once charged at one of these Fastned stations and had to pay €21 for a quarter battery (110 kilometers range), that is almost twice the price of gasoline (a joke), just to put the value for money and economic side of things into perspective. I mean, I like Tesla and manufacturers of other EVs for what they are trying to do and especially Tesla's are a pleasure to drive, but right now it's just not the right time (yet) to go all-electric, it needs many more years and a highly improved infrastructure (also for green energy, let's start at the very beginning before polluting the country even more to 'fuel' the EVs in the future for god's sake) for it to become the standard. Until then, the government should be focusing on the largest polluters in the Netherlands and not wasting effort and time on unfounded 'issues' like attempting to ban the sales of combustion engine cars. I can already predict the headlines if they go through with this and fail to set it up properly: "Emissions from coal-fueled power plants that are working overtime to generate electricity for the country's many EVs appear to be greater than all combined emissions just 10 years ago". Just my two cents


----------



## Suburbanist

Today the had the "Truck Tour" here, a procession of trucks honking loudly through the streets of Tilburg.


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## Slagathor

Isn't that what every day in Tilburg is like? :troll:


----------



## Suburbanist

There is an album of last year's event: http://www.trucktourtilburg.nl/fotoalbums-2015


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## Surel

Ni3lS said:


> It's an interesting topic that could potentially have great consequences for our country's infrastructure and economy. I value the government's interest in trying to reduce CO2 emissions although I feel like motions like this one aren't helping at all. The EU has been a pain to the automotive industry for years now with ever changing CO2 regulations while in my opinion they should focus on the real pollution; Farming and coal fueled power plants.
> 
> I think effectively car emissions contribute a small fraction to the total CO2 emissions in the Netherlands and Europe. I think time and money are better spent going after the real pollution rather than coming up with all kinds of regulations, rules and subsidies that don't work. A nice example are the subsidies for plug-in hybrids that have been going on for years that have now proven to be an absolute joke. They're great value for businesses that lease cars, sure, but it absolutely defeats the purpose. People that lease such cars just do it out of fiscal motives, not so much to help nature. What happens next is that most Plug-in hybrid drivers don't charge their cars which means they run on the combustion engine only, which needs to take more fuel because of the missing electrical boost resulting in an average more CO2 emissions.
> 
> Sure the government have caught up by now that human beings aren't as rational as they think they would be and misusing the cars because they simply don't care, resulting in an even worse environmental impact than ever before. Now the subsidies will disappear from next year onwards, after having created a market for these plug-in hybrids and letting spend car manufacturers billions into the development and production of these cars to find out that they will be useless in a matter of years, especially once the fully electrical cars and hydrogen / green gas cars will start to pick up pace.
> 
> I'm afraid that his ambitious motion for 2025 is a similar and stupid goal of equal magnitude. I speak from experience when saying that fully electrical cars (Tesla) aren't as green as they are believed to be. Electricity needs to come from somewhere and Tesla are quite the performance oriented car maker. The extra performance leads to more use of electricity and more frequent charging. I don't know if any of you have ever handled a Tesla supercharger, the cable is almost twice as thick as my underarm. I have experienced a peak of 312 Amps at a time fully charging a Tesla in a few minutes time and only taking an hour or two to completely drain the battery. With a full Tesla battery you can power your entire house for an estimated two weeks to put things into perspective.
> 
> I'm not even talking about the electricity and emissions it takes to produce the car's lithium ion batteries or all other components. Also, I once charged at one of these Fastned stations and had to pay €21 for a quarter battery (110 kilometers range), that is almost twice the price of gasoline (a joke), just to put the value for money and economic side of things into perspective. I mean, I like Tesla and manufacturers of other EVs for what they are trying to do and especially Tesla's are a pleasure to drive, but right now it's just not the right time (yet) to go all-electric, it needs many more years and a highly improved infrastructure (also for green energy, let's start at the very beginning before polluting the country even more to 'fuel' the EVs in the future for god's sake) for it to become the standard. Until then, the government should be focusing on the largest polluters in the Netherlands and not wasting effort and time on unfounded 'issues' like attempting to ban the sales of combustion engine cars. I can already predict the headlines if they go through with this and fail to set it up properly: "Emissions from coal-fueled power plants that are working overtime to generate electricity for the country's many EVs appear to be greater than all combined emissions just 10 years ago". Just my two cents


The CO2 hype in automobile transportation has to do with oil dependency not with pollution. Pollution is just marketing to sell it.


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## Ni3lS

They're already doing a fine job getting less dependent on the world's oil reserves by revolutionizing the energy sector step by step. An interesting 'Tegenlicht' documentary from last month shows that in Gulf states solar energy is now cheaper than energy coming from a regular power plant, which is huge. In developing countries like India no new traditional power plants are built but instead they choose to build fields of solar panels. China currently adds about 15 times the total green energy production of the USA in Gigawatts to their countr annually, a true transition is happening. Therefore no need to bash the auto industry and instead focus efforts on sectors where they are better served.


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## Ni3lS

Here is the episode if you're interested: http://tegenlicht.vpro.nl/afleveringen/2015-2016/de-doorbraak-van-duurzaam.html


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## Innsertnamehere

Cars are already shifting to electric, though slowly. Tesla with its Model 3 will make electric cars very common by 2020 or so. Electric cars are ultimately extremely cheap to run compared to gas, once batteries are cheap enough for mass consumption they will skyrocket in popularity, and we are getting closer to that every year. Gas will always have a place in automobiles if you ask me, though eventually it'll become more of a niche fuel. It's still going to be a while before we see large trucks and whatnot running on electricity too, and those are where a huge portion of pollutants come from in road transport.


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## ChrisZwolle

Current electric cars under € 40,000 have a limited range and the few that have a large range (Tesla) are extremely expensive. For example, why buy a Tesla Model S for € 80,000 - 100,000 while you can buy a decent second-hand luxury car for € 25,000. It will take forever to break even on fuel cost, even with the higher fuel prices in Europe.

As pointed out earlier, a major problem for the government are the dwindling tax revenues if electric cars become more popular. Tax revenues already tanked significantly with the incentives for plugin-electric hybrid vehicles. (They lost around 70% of new car registration tax revenue, known as BPM in Dutch). They will have to introduce new taxes to compensate for that. So it is doubtful whether electric driving will be affordable for the mainstream population in the future. The lower cost of future electric cars could be offset by a higher tax burden. A mileage tax seems like an easy alternative for the current fuel tax.


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## Suburbanist

The mechanics of Tesla are great, instead of a bulky transmission, electric motor (one or 2 depending on version) powering each axle.


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## ChrisZwolle

*BPM tax*

The BPM tax (Dutch: _Belasting op personenauto's en motorrijwielen_) is a tax on new car sales. It is a separate tax besides the value added tax (VAT) which is 21%. The BPM tax used to be 45.2% of the net car price. So on a new car, you would pay 45.2% BPM tax, plus 21% VAT. 

A simple example; a car with a net catalogue price of € 25.000 would cost 45.2% BPM (€ 11.300) + 21% VAT (€ 5.250), for a total of € 41.550. There were some deductions and supplemental fees, depending on fuel type, but this gives a general idea. 

However, since 2008 the BPM tax has changed to a CO2-based tax. Which means a Tesla Model S cost € 0 in BPM tax, while under the previous scheme a € 85.000 net price would mean the car would've cost € 38.420 in BPM tax. That's a huge loss of revenue, an incentive which can be maintained now that 0.1% of all cars are battery electric, but will be a problem once the share increases significantly.

Here you can see the BPM tax revenue in the Netherlands since 2002.









As you can see, the tax revenue dropped significantly since 2008. This is in part due to the recession, but it stayed low since the recession, due to the lower tax rates for plugin-electric hybrids, which makes up a large share of new car sales.

Of course, the BPM tax is just one of several tax revenues that will dwindle with electric cars, the most prominent one being the fuel tax, but also the annual road tax and business lease tax rates (_bijtelling_ in Dutch).


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## Koesj

For the folks who are unaware: do note that these specific taxes aren't earmarked towards car-related government expenses. I.e. everything goes into the general fund, and the road budget paid out of those funds is reasonably matched towards medium-term planning goals. 

For context: while on the one hand you've got people bemoaning the fact that road users don't really get their money's worth (often forgetting a pretty long list of negative externalities), we're relatively lucky here in the NL that:

(1) comprehensive plans are in place and introduced/updated regularly
(2) they actually get funded in the majority of cases
and (3) a slew of expedited planning/construction processes have been put into place over the last 10~15 years because project timelines were getting way out of hand

It's not perfect, but when I look over the border at how Western parts of Germany have been getting the shaft for ~25 years now, well, it's not that bad here.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N34 Coevorden - Emmen*

The province of Drenthe has approved the expansion of N34 between Coevorden and Emmen to a four-lane expressway, with a 100 km/h speed limit. It involves the twinning of the existing super two to four lanes along its current alignment. 

A 4.5 kilometer segment of N34 was already widened to four lanes in 1999, between A37 (then N37) and N391 near Emmen. This will extend the four lanes north to N381 and south to N382 near Coevorden (16 kilometers overall, of which about 9 kilometers is new). The stretch through the Holsloot cloverleaf with A37 remains unchanged (1 through lane southbound).

Schematics (south to north):


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N33 Zuidbroek - Appingedam*

The government published the 'intent to start an environmental approval procedure' for the expansion of N33 between Zuidbroek (A7) and Appingedam (N362) to a four-lane, controlled-access expressway with a 100 km/h speed limit. This is an official step in the plan approval process. Construction could start by late 2018.

The N33 will be twinned mostly along its existing alignment, east or west of the current roadway. However, there are alternatives south of Appingedam that take N33 on a new alignment.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N18 Groenlo - Enschede*

A contract has been signed with the consortium 'Noaber18' to construct the new 27 kilometer long N18 'Twenteroute' in eastern Netherlands. It runs from Groenlo to Enschede, mostly on a new alignment. 

The new road is a 100 km/h expressway, however only the Haaksbergen - Enschede segment will feature 2x2 lanes, the rest is a super two with one lane in each direction and a median divider. This design has been criticized for requiring the width of nearly a motorway while operating only one lane in each direction with no passing options. This part of the Netherlands has no high-standard roads. 

Early works will be performed from now on, large-scale construction is planned to start in September. The new N18 will open in the second half of 2018.

As usual, the contract value is not disclosed.


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ Why "equiring the width of nearly a motorway while operating only one lane in each direction"? What occupies the remaining space?


----------



## renroz

Indeed.. I don't get those decisions. In the future they've builded along those roads en is there no space anymore while expansion is needed.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ They add a semi-hardened shoulder on the outside, in addition to a grassby berm. Which means the space between the crash barriers is the same as two regular lanes. In locations with no crash barriers on the right side, the grassy berm is wider, so the complete cross-section is usually wide enough for a near-motorway width. Other 2x2 expressways (without shoulders) have been built on similar cross-sections.


----------



## g.spinoza

ChrisZwolle said:


> The BPM tax (Dutch: _Belasting op personenauto's en motorrijwielen_) is a tax on new car sales. It is a separate tax besides the value added tax (VAT) which is 21%. The BPM tax used to be 45.2% of the net car price. So on a new car, you would pay 45.2% BPM tax, plus 21% VAT.


:eek2:

Wow, this is one hell of a tax.
Does this apply also to km-0 cars? I don't know if they exist outside Italy, I mean those cars registrated by the dealership and then used as test cars or something like that?


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> As usual, the contract value is not disclosed.


Why is that?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ I don't know. _Rijkswaterstaat_ does not publish the bids or contract value of projects. You can look up the budget for a project on the MIRT site, where it is budgeted at € 337 million, of which the region pays € 151 million.

I don't know why they're not more transparent about it. They say that 'people involved in the bidding process know the bids and contract value', but it isn't published on their website. This is rather strange considering the fraud with construction cartels in the 1990s that has cost the taxpayer a lot of money (bouwfraude)


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ I don't know. _Rijkswaterstaat_ does not publish the bids or contract value of projects. You can look up the budget for a project on the MIRT site, where it is budgeted at € 337 million, of which the region pays € 151 million.
> 
> I don't know why they're not more transparent about it. They say that 'people involved in the bidding process know the bids and contract value', but it isn't published on their website. This is rather strange considering the fraud with construction cartels in the 1990s that has cost the taxpayer a lot of money (bouwfraude)


The corruption was perceived as very severe in the East European countries. The public forced the politicians quite consistently to work on the transparency. It is not yet perfect but there've been substitutional changes.

This has led to tenders that concentrate on the price criteria. There's ongoing discussion as whether this is something desirable. You need to enumerate all the conditions and standards that the companies need to fulfil beforehand in order to make their offers comparable and then you boil the competition down to price. In fact the project is prepared by the authorities and the companies just bid to realize this project. This results in transparent tenders, but causes huge processing problems and narrow vision solutions. It is argued that the price criteria doesn't have to be used that often. 

Indeed there's a huge difference in the share of tenders competed on price e.g. in the Czech Republic and in the Netherlands or other Western European countries. In the Western Europe is used mostly the controlled dialogue approach. I think that this approach can deliver good results, but ultimately leads to much less transparent tenders, which results in higher prices.

What I would consider as one of the best approaches towards tendering would be some sort of merge of these approaches. I would keep the dialogue, so that the whole process would be more flexible, but I would combine it with sort of transparent auction. That is something in these lines.

1) Companies would be given set of the core criteria, minimal standards, conditions and project goals.

2) They would be offered chance to propose their approaches to the problem and set a price tag on their solution.

3) The authorities would look at the solutions, evaluate whether they condone on the set criteria and if yes, those solutions would advance to the second round, when the participants would bid for the cheapest offer. That means, the competing companies would get a chance to set a new price to their own solution and also to the solution of other competitors. The second round would be purely price and perhaps also warranty driven if applicable. The solution with the lowest price tag would win the competition.

Of course the solution information would need to be disclosed and companies could have problems with disclosing their know how. Maybe there could be a % payment from the winner to the company with the winning solution if the winner would offer a lower price for their solution.

All in all I think that the most important factors for a good tender are
a) Number of competitors
b) Transparency
c) Bank guarantees to eliminate the fake offers


----------



## MichiH

ChrisZwolle said:


> The new road is a 100 km/h expressway, however only the Haaksbergen - Enschede segment will feature 2x2 lanes


The yellow section on the map (Varsseveld bypass) seems to be 2x2 too (but 80km/h design or speed limit instead of 100km/h, maybe w/o median?). Why are these intersections at-grade while all(?) interchanges on the northern sections are grade-separted?


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## keokiracer

MichiH said:


> seems to be 2x2 too [...] maybe w/o median?


2x2 without median @80km/h is more unlikely than an immediate widening to 2x5.


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## ChrisZwolle

The new drawbridge next to the A12 at the Gouwe Aquaduct near Gouda was installed this night.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Ede - Arnhem*

A12 will be closed for eastbound traffic this weekend between Ede and the Grijsoord motorway interchange. They are going to slide an underpass under the motorway. It is 70 meters long, 13.5 meters wide and weighs 3600 tonnes. 

The entire stretch will also be paved during the weekend (11 kilometers). It appears that the eastbound widening will be completed after the weekend, but they still maintain it's completed in the summer. 

A12 is closed from Friday 9 p.m. until Monday 5 a.m. to all eastbound traffic. Traffic is being detoured via A1 or A15. Westbound traffic is not affected.


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## ChrisZwolle

*statistics*

Central Bureau of Statistics (CBS) released some new data regarding passenger cars in the Netherlands. Bottom line: the average age of passenger cars is increasing.

51% of the passenger cars are over 9 years old, in 2006 it was 37%. The average age increased from 8.4 to 10.2 years over the last 10 years. The share of cars older than 15 years increased from 11 to 20%. The share of cars between 0 and 3 years old declined from 20 to 16%. 

There are 8.1 million passenger cars in the Netherlands, an increase of 1 million cars since 2006.

Petrol-powered cars are on average 11 years old, while diesel-powered cars are on average 7.2 years old. However, 79% of all passenger cars run on petrol and only 16% on diesel.

The average age of scrapping a car is 17.9 years. The average age of export cars is 12.5 years. Half of all exported cars are diesel cars and they are usually under 10 years old, while exported petrol cars are 16 years old.


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## Langeveldt

ChrisZwolle said:


> The average age of scrapping a car is 17.9 years. The average age of export cars is 12.5 years. Half of all exported cars are diesel cars and they are usually under 10 years old, while exported petrol cars are 16 years old.


Hardly surprising given the astronomical cost of buying a car in the Netherlands. I also think that cars get an easy ride with the good standard roads and total lack of hills.

Cars probably last longer in NL and I've seen many more old bangers still running well compared with the UK where they take a battering on the substandard road network. I keep thinking my 13 year old Polo will die shortly, but touch wood it keeps going and going.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Ede - Grijsoord*

Eastbound A12 reopened this morning as scheduled with 3 lanes from Ede to Grijsoord. 

During the weekend, an 11 kilometer segment of motorway (3 lanes + 1 shoulder) have been paved, all road markings have been applied, an they also slid in a 70 meter long fauna tunnel under the motorway. In addition, they demolished the remainder of the old N224 overpass. 

Westbound A12 will be completed next month. 

The project started in February 2015, so the entire widening of 11 kilometer of motorway took only 1 year and 4 months, including bridge replacement. The actual traffic impact was only during 12 weeks in total. It was the first workzone with a 120 km/h speed limit in Dutch history. They did an outstanding job widening the motorway in a very short period of time with very little traffic impact.


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## saewer

Wow Germany should check that one out ^^. In Germany, in 1 year and 4 months they would maybe about to start with the preparation of the actual construction work.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A28 / N309 't Harde*

Construction starts next Monday to replace a bridge that carries the A28 motorway over the N309 provincial road at 't Harde. The bridge replacement will take 5 months. 

The number of lanes of N309 under the A28 overpass will be increased from 3 to 5. The on/offramps will also be equipped with traffic signals. This is one of the few remaining 1960s era interchanges with uncontrolled ramps with 4 T-intersections.


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## postHUMANproject

ChrisZwolle said:


> A12 will be closed for eastbound traffic this weekend between Ede and the Grijsoord motorway interchange. They are going to slide an underpass under the motorway. It is 70 meters long, 13.5 meters wide and weighs 3600 tonnes.
> 
> The entire stretch will also be paved during the weekend (11 kilometers). It appears that the eastbound widening will be completed after the weekend, but they still maintain it's completed in the summer.
> 
> A12 is closed from Friday 9 p.m. until Monday 5 a.m. to all eastbound traffic. Traffic is being detoured via A1 or A15. Westbound traffic is not affected.







:cheers:


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## vespafrederic

postHUMANproject said:


> :cheers:


Unbelievable.... :crazy::crazy:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A27 Breda - Utrecht*

The draft environmental impact assessment of the A27 widening has been signed by the minister of transportation. It concerns the A27 from the Hooipolder interchange (A59) to Houten, a 47 kilometer stretch of motorway. It will be published on 10 June. The budget for the project is € 808 million.

The draft-EIA is based on the preferred alternative that was chosen in 2014. Most of the budget will be consumed by the construction of new bridges at Gorinchem and Geertruidenberg. This stretch of A27 has 4 major bridges. Most of the project length consists only of shoulder running, only a portion of the 47 kilometer route will have permanent new lanes. The exact details will be known on 10 June.

From the preferred alternative in 2014:


*Northbound*
* 2 lanes + shoulder running from Hooipolder (A59) to Werkendam
* 3 lanes from Werkendam to Scheiwijk
* 2 lanes + shoulder running from Scheiwijk to Houten

*Southbound*
* 4 lanes from Houten to Everdingen (A2)
* 2 lanes + shoulder running from Everdingen to Scheiwijk
* 4 lanes from Scheiwijk to Werkendam, including a new Merwede Bridge
* 2 lanes + shoulder running from Werkendam to Hooipolder​


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## ChrisZwolle

*A27 Breda - Utrecht*

Some documents about the A27 expansion project can be found here: http://www.a27participatie.nl/

There are mostly concepts and may not be exactly the same as what will be adopted in the draft EIA.

South to north lane configuration;

* Hooipolder interchange: connector road from A59 eastbound to A27 northbound
* New Keizersveer Bridge for northbound traffic with 3 lanes and a shoulder. Existing bridges will remain in use with 2+2 lanes for southbound traffic (one SB lane becomes an exit only lane)
* 2x3 lanes from Hooipolder to Hank
* 2x2 lanes + shoulder running from Hank to Nieuwendijk
* 2+3 lanes from Nieuwendijk to Werkendam (3 SB lanes)
* 3+4 lanes from Werkendam to Avelingen (4 SB lanes)
* new Merwede Bridge for SB traffic (4 lanes)
* 2x3 lanes from Avelingen to Scheiwijk rest area (2x2 through lanes at Gorinchem motorway interchange)
* no changes to the Gorinchem cloverleaf.
* 2x2 lanes + shoulder running from Scheiwijk rest area to just north of Lexmond 
* 2+3 lanes + shoulder running NB from Lexmond to Everdingen interchange (A2) (mostly existing situation, except for NB shoulder lane)
* Everdingen motorway interchange remains unchanged
* 2 NB lanes + shoulder running and 2+2 SB lanes from Everdingen interchange to Nieuwegein
* new SB bridge across the Lek River at Hagestein. Two SB carriageways, one NB carriageway
* 4+2 lanes + NB shoulder running from Nieuwegein to Houten

This results in a very fragmented lane configuration, but it will do the job of addressing congestion, at least in the short term. However, experience shows that shoulder running on motorways with 80,000 - 100,000 vehicles per day will be in operation throughout much of the day (not just during peak hour).


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## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Gouda*

The new parallel road along A12 near Gouda that is intended to relieve A12 of weaving local traffic.










More photos by De Fotograaf


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## ChrisZwolle

The new A9 bridge across the Amsterdam-Rhine Canal east of Diemen. It will carry 9 lanes, 4 + 3 regular lanes and 2 reversible lanes. It is basically a link between A1 and A9. It is part of the Schiphol-Amsterdam-Almere megaproject. It was built in less than two years, the first span was completed in 16 months.


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## ChrisZwolle

Severe thunderstorms have washed away an embankment along A74 at Venlo, practically on the German border.


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## ChrisZwolle

*speed limits*

The speed limit goes up on 2 stretches tomorrow;

* A2: Holendrecht (A9) to Vinkeveen, 130 km/h from 19h - 6h in both directions
* A12: Duiven - German border, 130 km/h 24/7 in both directions.

This will give A2 between Amsterdam and Utrecht a uniform speed limit, 100 km/h from 6h - 19h and 130 km/h from 19h - 6h. 

The speed limit also made a uniform 130 km/h, day and night, on A12. This used to be 120 day / 130 night. These 120-130 stretches are increasingly eliminated. The difference is confusing, unnecessary in practice, and only relevant to bureaucratic rules.


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## ChrisZwolle

*South Holland construction works*

A lot of maintenance construction is planned in South Holland province over the summer.

* A4 Benelux Tunnel (Rotterdam), numerous night and weekend closures for renovation and replacement of technical installations. One out of 4 tubes will be closed at a time.
* A15 Benelux - Vaanplein (Rotterdam), weekend closure 15-18 July for resurfacing.
* A12 Zoetermeer - Gouda, one weekend closure per direction for resurfacing and bridge joint replacement works.
* A12 Den Haag - Zoetermeer, one weekend closure per direction for resurfacing and bridge joint replacement works.
* A16 Brienenoord Bridge (Rotterdam), 3 weekend closures for resurfacing and bridge joint replacement works.

As you can see, maintenance in the Netherlands is nearly entirely during the night and with weekend closures. This is one of the reasons why construction works are responsible for only 3% of all traffic congestion.


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## da_scotty

ChrisZwolle said:


> Severe thunderstorms have washed away an embankment along A74 at Venlo, practically on the German border.


Please let the Dutch fix this, if it was done by the Germans we would face a road closure for the next ten years! hno:


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## TM_Germany

No, such things get actually fixed quickly, even in Germany. We had a similar (avalanche?) problem along a relatively minor road in my town two days ago and the road was open again in a couple of hours.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N11, Bodegraven*

A 1963 photo of the N11 two-lane viaduct across the railroad in Bodegraven. It was built as part of the Bodegraven bypass, and continued through Zwammerdam.

It was demolished in 2004/2005 after N11 was built on a new alignment with four lanes outside the built-up area.

It's hard to imagine that only about 10 years ago all through traffic on N11 had to drive across an urbanized two-lane road through Zwammerdam. It was already planned as a motorway in the 1960s, but it took over 40 years to finally build it as a four-lane expressway.


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## Batavier

I was trying to find this location on Google Maps, but unfortunately I couldn't. Could you please share the current street view?


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## Koesj

I think it's right here on the Vlietkade: https://goo.gl/maps/tjqwGzTrh3S2

Check out the missing house, and if you go into Google Earth and enable the 2005 imagery, you can see all the groundworks for removing the road and building that PostNL location.


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## renroz

maral said:


> Guy in the street...242€ to get everything clean again....
> 
> Not his car...


I have to inspect my car tomorrow. My husband has driven through it today and heard it 'splutting'. So score! :banana:hno:


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## ChrisZwolle

*N31 Aquaduct Langdeel*

N31 was widened to a four-lane expressway from Leeuwarden to Drachten in 2007. An important structure is the 'Aquaduct Langdeel', a structure that carries a canal over N31. 

The concrete used in the pillars is of inferior quality. They reportedly dropped steel wiring that keeps the rebar together into the concrete, reducing its quality. They already did repairs on it in 2013, 2014 and now again this year.

They will jack the entire structure up by 4 mm and replace the faulty concrete. It was built as a PPP project, so there is no cost incurred to taxpayers.

Aquaduct Langdeel:


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## Suburbanist

How much total equivalent weight does an acquaduct carry when no boats are using it? How tick is the main bowl shaped wall? Do they put some floor material or cover or does water reach straight on the concrete?


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## Rebasepoiss

^^ The weight is always the same unless you have a sunken boat.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Maastricht*

New aerial photos of A2 in Maastricht. The tunnel will open late 2016.



junky said:


> Nieuwe luchtfotos:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.a2maastricht.nl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.a2maastricht.nl


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## Suburbanist

There is a video (from 2015) showing the full future traffic situation, alternate traffic and safety procedures


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## ChrisZwolle

*A28 / N309 't Harde*

The bridge replacement along A28 at the 't Harde exit is in full swing. The 1960s bridges are replaced to make way for a wider N309. 

The bridge replacement requires 6 weeks for each span.










Lots of photos: http://www.nwvfoto.nl/diversen/sloop-viaduct-a28-n309-op-t-harde-in-volle-gang


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## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Badhoevedorp*

90 days of construction in a 90-second timelapse video. A9 in Badhoevedorp.


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## Henk

Dit is de A9 ter hoogte van de oude Schipholweg. Op de achtergrond zie je de A4.


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## MrAronymous

Bedankt Henk, there we have something on.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N237 Soesterberg*

Provincial road N237 in Utrecht province has been built in a trench near the town of Soesterberg. They built a below-grade segment with a 210 meter long tunnel.

And it was built in only 8.5 months! :cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Ede - Arnhem*

Some before & after photos of the A12 widening project between Ede and the Grijsoord motorway interchange near Arnhem.

In januari 2015 zag het er bij de aansluiting Wageningen nog zo uit:

DSC_0036.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr

Nu ziet het er iets anders uit met een extra strook erbij:

DSC_0001.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr

In januari 2015 zag het er zo uit bij Ede:

DSC_0042.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr

Nu ook weer een ander beeld met 2x3 rijstroken en de tunnel voor de Parklaan:

DSC_0011.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr

Viaduct Edeseweg januari 2015:

DSC_0051.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr

Viaduct Edeseweg nu:

DSC_0025.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr

A12 ter hoogte van aansluiting Oosterbeek in januari 2015, kijkend richting Ede:

DSC_0009.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr

A12 zelfde locatie nu:

DSC_0032.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr

A12 bij Grijsoord in januari 2015:

DSC_0022.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr

A12 bij Grijsoord nu:

DSC_0045.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr​


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## Crusher

Nice update


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## ChrisZwolle

*N62 Sloeweg, Zeeland*

The 'Sloeweg' upgrade has been completed on 30 June. They expanded the two-lane road to a four-lane expressway with a new interchange at 's-Heerenhoek. In addition, they built a new motorway interchange with A58, which is known as _knooppunt Stelleplas_.










The project started in August 2014, however they quickly found out the design they made was much more expensive than the allocated budget, so works were stopped and the project was reconsidered. At that time there were some early earthworks at the N254 interchange and considerable progress at the A58 interchange.

They decided to continue the four-laning of N62, but construct the N254 interchange at a later time. The twinning of 5.3 kilometers of N62 was basically built in one year, between mid-2015 and mid-2016. The A58 interchange (knooppunt Stelleplas) opened on 10 October 2015. The four-laning was completed on 30 June 2016.

The N62-N254 intersection is now the only at-grade intersection between Goes and Terneuzen. They still plan to build a proper interchange here, the majority of the States-Provincial want to build a full interchange with direct connectors (compact half stack interchange), but they have yet to allocate additional funding for it.


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## Slagathor

Those funds may be a long time coming. First they have to figure out how on Earth they're gonna save the regional utilities company Delta which also happens to own the only nuclear power plant in the country near Borssele.

Money is in short supply down there.


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## Suburbanist

Zeeland could embrace accelerated growth, building a new city for pop 200.000 or so. That would bring in a Lot of money. Think of something as a satellite town to Rotterdam like Almere is to Amsterdam. However schowen or goieree-flakkee are better suited islands for that purpose.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Knooppunt Terbregseplein*

A render of the future A16-A20 interchange (_knooppunt Terbergseplein_) in Rotterdam, looking north.


----------



## Slagathor

Suburbanist said:


> Zeeland could embrace accelerated growth, building a new city for pop 200.000 or so. That would bring in a Lot of money. Think of something as a satellite town to Rotterdam like Almere is to Amsterdam. However schowen or goieree-flakkee are better suited islands for that purpose.


There are no grounds to suppose that's feasible. Zeeuws-Vlaanderen has actively been trying to lure Belgians. This should, on paper, be easy because property prices are lower than they are across the border and so are general living expenses (utilities, groceries). And yet, few people take the plunge. 

Distance is a major factor; people don't generally like to move but when they do, they tend to move _closer_ to work, not further away.


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## verreme

Suburbanist said:


> Zeeland could embrace accelerated growth, building a new city for pop 200.000 or so. That would bring in a Lot of money. Think of something as a satellite town to Rotterdam like Almere is to Amsterdam. However schowen or goieree-flakkee are better suited islands for that purpose.


You always seem to think like it's still the 1960s.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N434 Rijnland Route, Leiden*



ChrisZwolle said:


> The Council of State issued a lengthy verdict today regarding the plans for the Rijnland Route. Practically all appeals were dismissed. Two appeals were correct, but these involved only minor changes which will not cause any delays. A zoning map has to be corrected for a minor issue, and wording in another section need to be clarified.


The last two appeals against the Rijnland Route project were dismissed by the Council of State today. This means that all legal hurdles to construct the A4-A44 expressway link near Leiden have been taken.


----------



## WillBuild

Slagathor said:


> And yet, few people take the plunge.
> 
> Distance is a major factor; people don't generally like to move but when they do, they tend to move _closer_ to work, not further away.


Indeed only about 700/year, per this article in the Financieel Dagblad.

Distance can't be the issue. Hulst-Antwerp is 30 minutes to the city center. Axel-Ghent is about the same. That's no worse than most of the Antwerp commuter belt. My friends in Brussels would kill for such a commute.

Either way, a few hundred at best just offsets the expected population loss for the area: 6.8% for Terneuzen, 10% for Sluis and a whopping 15% for Hulst "in the next few decades", according to the article. If interpreting that as 20 years, and population loss as 7%/50K + 10%/25K + 15%/25K, or about 10K, that would give 500 a year.

In other words, a new Purmerend or Almere in Zeeuws Vlaanderen is not happening anytime soon :lol:

That said, these demographic changes could be revised upward if the area manages to attract local investment from the new lock (nieuwe sluis), vastly improved 4x4 motorway between Rotterdam and Ghent/Lille/Paris and eventually the Seine-Scheldt connection.


----------



## Suburbanist

Zeeland also suffers from bad West<=>continent connections in Overflakkee, Zeeuws Vlaanderen and Duiveland. They did a great job with N-S links but kinda neglected other connections (except A58). 

---------------------------

Speaking of Zeeland, I found this old map of the area


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## peezet

ChrisZwolle said:


> The 'Sloeweg' upgrade has been completed on 30 June. They expanded the two-lane road to a four-lane expressway with a new interchange at 's-Heerenhoek. In addition, they built a new motorway interchange with A58, which is known as _knooppunt Stelleplas_.
> ....



They invested 60.000.000 euro's and just got rid of one trafficlight. There is still one left. hno:


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## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> A render of the future A16-A20 interchange (_knooppunt Terbergseplein_) in Rotterdam, looking north.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/nwqFBi2.jpg[img][/QUOTE]
> 
> Lane reduction from A20E>A16S: Might be possible but risky, a lot of traffic on that now.
> Lane reduction on turning lane from A16S to A20E> Retarded, the 2 lanes now can barely cope with traffic coming from south, an A13/A16 link won't change anything about that. There is a HUGE traffic flow from south to east and vice versa.
> 
> Love the extra onramp from the Hoofdweg to north though and the extra turning lane on the exit will be handy too, often you get a traffic jam on the A16 because the exit terbregge cannot cope. Though mostly caused by the Terbregseweg and Molenlaan which are congested as hell which backfires all the way onto the A16.
> 
> The new Hillegersberg noord interchange on the A16/A16 link will be great for the mobility of Hillegersberg.


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## keokiracer

snowdog said:


> Lane reduction on turning lane from A16S to A20E> Retarded, the 2 lanes now can barely cope with traffic coming from south, an A13/A16 link won't change anything about that. There is a HUGE traffic flow from south to east and vice versa.


That's a taper-exit, you can see behind the bushes just after the split that there are 2 lanes.


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## junky




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## ChrisZwolle

*N50 Ramspol Bridge*

An aerial view of the Ramspol Bridge of N50 north of Kampen. It was built in 2012 to replace a narrow two-lane bascule bridge. The structure behind it is an inflatable storm surge barrier.


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> A render of the future A16-A20 interchange (_knooppunt Terbergseplein_) in Rotterdam, looking north.





junky said:


>


Nice drawings! kay: This new interchange with the A16-A13 connection is so badly needed. They should start constructing it as of yesterday. 

The new entrance to the highway (coming from the Hoofdweg, entrance runs from the South to the North) only leads to the through traffic lanes. So traffic that wants to go to Rotterdam-West, Schiedam or Vlaardingen can't use that new entrance.


----------



## keokiracer

Is the A13-A16 link still planned as a tolled road or not?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, the intent to use tolling for financing was canceled in November 2013. Traffic studies concluded that even a very modest toll would discourage so much traffic that its function to relieve traffic was put into doubt.


----------



## snowdog

EPA001 said:


> Nice drawings! kay: This new interchange with the A16-A13 connection is so badly needed. They should start constructing it as of yesterday.
> 
> The new entrance to the highway (coming from the Hoofdweg, entrance runs from the South to the North) only leads to the through traffic lanes. So traffic that wants to go to Rotterdam-West, Schiedam or Vlaardingen can't use that new entrance.


The new link should relieve a lot of traffic from local roads, the accessibility of Hillegersberg-Schiebroek is now terrible and this results in congestion on many of the local roads in the area, the new link will allow of lot of traffic to take the new exit hillergersberg-noord.

If you want to go westwards, you go through the Kralingse Bos (70km/h autoweg) and then onto the Boezemlaan/Gordelweg and enter the A20 there, otherwise, exit Alexander isn't to far away.

The Gordelweg is now terrible, but mostly because of congestion on the A20 or the Straatweg into Hillegersberg which locks up the whole area, same with the Terbregseweg and Molenlaan.

Hell, I'd take the new A16/A13 road myself from Alexander to Hillegersberg even if it means a slight detour, it means avoiding 14 (!, in a few km's, coming from Capelle Schollevaar to Hillegersberg) traffic lights and hugely congested local roads. 

The taper will work, provided there will be a decrease of traffic on the A20 Ring, but I'm having my doubts, congestion in the Rotterdam area was terrible, and new roads pick up new/extra traffic very quickly when the appalling situation improves to bearable. Rotterdam is one of the few areas so bad that people actually avoided driving (especiallt the A16>A29>A13 corridor) and looked for alternative routes or methods of transport.

Am I correct that the N209 near R'dam airport will be replaced by the new motorway? That wouldn't be too great, they should build the new road IN ADDITION to the N road. Also I hope they realise they need to upgrade the A13 and A4 to cope with all the extra traffic. Removing the A20 chokepoint with the A13/A16 link will undoubtedly mean new chokepoints/bottlenecks near the A13 Delft, A4 Prins Clausplein, and A4 Leidschendam. And of course the fail near Zoeterwoude Rijndijk/Leiden.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A50 Tacitus Bridge*

The renovation of the old Tacitus Bridge (1976) on A50 west of Nijmegen appears to be accelerating. The slow and complex works to replace the cables of the bridge (reportedly never done before in Europe) appears to be completed, so they are now strengthening the bridge deck.

The strengthening works are two-fold;
* extra steel in the bridge superstructure
* high-strength concrete on the bridge deck.

High-strength concrete (_HogeSterkteBeton_ in Dutch) is a relatively new development. It has denser and finer concrete that has a higher strength than regular concrete. It also hardens out pretty fast. 

Regular strength concrete has a pressure strength of 20-65 N/mm², while high-strength concrete has 65-105 N/mm². This allows for longer spans (especially for cantilevered box girder bridges) and better durability. 

In the Netherlands, concrete is used for structures, bridge deck renovation and sometimes as a base course, though never as the top layer of pavement on motorways. Nearly all bridge renovations nowadays are using 'high-strength concrete'.


DSC_0110.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0010.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Diemen - Muiderberg*

The new 12 lane A1 east of Amsterdam will be put into service over the summer.

* A1 will open to eastbound traffic on 22 August, including the new bridge across the Amsterdam-Rhine Canal from A9, and the new Aquaduct Vechtzicht under the Vecht River.
* The reversible lanes of A1 will open to traffic on 12 September
* A1 will open to westbound traffic on 26 September.

So by 26 September, the old A1 will be decomissioned and demolished afterwards. This eliminates another drawbridge on the Dutch motorway system.


----------



## Palance

Suburbanist said:


> Zeeland also suffers from bad West<=>continent connections in Overflakkee, Zeeuws Vlaanderen and Duiveland.


Overflakkee is not in Zeeland


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen*

The expansion of N35 between Zwolle and Wijthmen has been awarded to Heijmans. The contract value has not been disclosed, but the project has a € 48 million budget.

The N35 will be widened to a 2x2 expressway with a 100 km/h speed limit. It will be partially built over the existing road, and partially on a new alignment around the village of Wijthmen. A controlled-access interchange will be built at Wijthmen, there will be no other access except for either end of the project. 

Construction is planned to begin sometime 2017 and is planned to be completed by late 2018.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N356 'De Centrale As'*

An opening date has been announced for the 'Centrale As' (_Sintrale As_ in Frisian) in Friesland province. It will open in its entirety from N31 at Nijega to Dokkum on 7 October 2016.

It is a 21 kilometer long four-lane, grade-separated, 100 km/h expressway. It contains an aquaduct at Burgum. It is a provincial road project, one of the largest in the Netherlands. 

Unusual for large road projects nowadays, it was contracted into segments, and the final segment around Faenwâlden didn't commence construction until 8-9 months ago. Which is remarkable given the soft soil, usually it requires a settling process.

Map of the project, which will likely be numbered as N356:


----------



## Suburbanist

If only Gelderland started building more roads as well like Fryslan of Groningen


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A50, Veghel - Oss*

A50 will be closed in both directions for repaving in early August.

The motorway will be completely shut down for one week in each direction, to repave a 15 kilometer segment across all lanes. 

A50 will be closed to all traffic;
* northbound from Veghel (exit 11) to Nistelrode (exit 15): 29 July 21:00 - 5 August 21:00
* southbound from Paalgraven motorway interchange to Veghel (exit 11): 5 August 21:00 - 15 August 06:00

The alternative was 6-8 weekend closures, but they decided on one complete closure. 

A2-A59 will be the main detour for through traffic. They don't expect massive congestion due to the summer holidays. The main problem will be people who follow their GPS and ignore the signs, they are forced to exit A50 at Veghel and use secondary roads.

That's the reason why southbound A50 is closed from the Paalgraven motorway interchange, so traffic is forced onto an alternate motorway instead of the secondary road network at Nistelrode. However, for northbound traffic the closure is too far from the split at the Ekkersweijer motorway interchange with A2. They can't shut down all of A50, just for people blindly following their GPS.


----------



## Slagathor

These days, if you update your GPS very regularly it should have this info on it and steer you around the bottlenecks, right? 

(I don't own a car at the moment so I don't really know these things ).


----------



## CNGL

ChrisZwolle said:


> A50 will be closed in both directions for repaving in early August.
> 
> The motorway will be completely shut down for one week in each direction, to repave a 15 kilometer segment across all lanes.
> 
> A50 will be closed to all traffic;
> * northbound from Veghel (exit 11) to Nistelrode (exit 15): 29 July 21:00 - 5 August 21:00
> * southbound from Paalgraven motorway interchange to Veghel (exit 11): 5 August 21:00 - 15 August 06:00
> 
> The alternative was 6-8 weekend closures, but they decided on one complete closure.
> 
> A2-A59 will be the main detour for through traffic. They don't expect massive congestion due to the summer holidays. The main problem will be people who follow their GPS and ignore the signs, they are forced to exit A50 at Veghel and use secondary roads.
> 
> That's the reason why southbound A50 is closed from the Paalgraven motorway interchange, so traffic is forced onto an alternate motorway instead of the secondary road network at Nistelrode. However, for northbound traffic the closure is too far from the split at the Ekkersweijer motorway interchange with A2. They can't shut down all of A50, just for people blindly following their GPS.


This is the main reason I'll never use a GPS when driving around. I prefer to study the area on some online map beforehand.

BTW, I like to see 's-Hertogenbosch (a.k.a. Den Bosch) in a Google map. For some odd reason in my version it shows up as _Bolduque_ :nuts:.


----------



## Slagathor

^^ I use a French computer a while ago and it said Bois-le-Duc. I guess it's one of those places that's always translated like most capital cities.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Slagathor said:


> These days, if you update your GPS very regularly it should have this info on it and steer you around the bottlenecks, right?


Evidently many people use a GPS without a live traffic feed.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A6/A7 Knooppunt Joure*

An aerial photo taken from a hot air balloon of the Joure motorway interchange in Friesland. You can see the contours of the new exit that will be constructed here. The actual motorway-to-motorway interchange will be moved south (right).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9, Amsterdam*

A photo of the A9 expansion project in Amsterdam. A 3 kilometer tunnel is currently under construction.

They separated westbound A9 into a collector and express system, with both having 2 westbound lanes. 
They decided to close the collector lanes outside rush hour so they can work more during the day instead of during the night, as the works are very noisy and annoying for residents in the area. In any case, 2 westbound lanes remain available at all times.


----------



## berlinwroclaw

keokiracer said:


> Vlaketunnel (A58 in Zeeland, 327 meters), Wijkertunnel (A9 at Beverwijk, 680 meters). The latter is currently 90km/h due to an extra lane where the hard shoulder used to be because the nearby Velsertunnel is closed for renvoation. But that will revert to 130km/h once the renovation is done and the extra lane is removed.


Thanks, I didn’t know. Netherlands is doing better than most other countries. One minor alteration, why there is a speed limit from 130 km/h to 100 km/h on A73 motorway near Roermond? Perhaps it is almost at the German border, and you should adapt a little bit to the Germans?  Still a difference with Norway where all new motorway tunnels will be without lower speed limit. But I can understand the Netherlands can better solve traffic jam near big cities.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The A73 tunnels were built 'on-the-cheap', with a reduced height for trucks and lower design speed. These tunnels closed hundreds of times per year due to the detection of overheight trucks (often erroneously detected). This has been brought under control somewhat since the tunnels opened in 2007, but they still have numerous short-term closures. A 130 km/h speed limit is considered too dangerous for the Roer Tunnel and Swalmen Tunnel. The segment in between is also limited at 100 km/h, which is quite annoying, it's also a favorite speed trap location for the police. 

Nowadays tunnels are built with a 4.6 meter clearance. This is 0.6 m higher than the maximum permissible truck height in the Netherlands, so it doesn't need any kind of detection system, so it can't shut the motorway down either.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Room for the river*

They dug a bypass for the Waal River in the city of Nijmegen, to reduce high water levels. 

They built and/or extended six bridges across the new bypass.









It is part of the 'room for the river' project, one of the largest spatial projects in recent Dutch history. They built flood bypasses, deepened rivers and floodplains and built new dikes, bridges, roads, etc. It was mostly executed from 2006 to 2015, though some projects are still ongoing until 2019. The total budget is € 2.3 billion for over 30 projects.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N344 Wilhelmina Bridge, Deventer*

The Wilhelmina Bridge renovation is currently ongoing in the city of Deventer.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1/A27 widening*



ChrisZwolle said:


> Road Authority _Rijkswaterstaat_ has conditionally awarded the expansion of A1 and A27 (Utrecht - Hilversum - Amersfoort) to a consortium known as _3Angle_ (Heijmans, Fluor and 3i Infrastructure). It is a PPP project which includes 25 years of operations and maintenance. The contract value is € 220 million, of which 50% is for the major Dutch construction company Heijmans.
> 
> A1 from Hilversum to Amersfoort will be widened from 2x2 to 2x4 lanes. A27 from Utrecht to Hilversum will be widened from 2x2 to 2x3 lanes, with space for 2x4 lanes.
> 
> Financial close is expected in October. The expansion project will be completed by 2019.


The expansion project is now definitely awarded to 3Angle. They will sign the contracts in September. 

The widening of 24 kilometers of motorway will last from early 2017 to late 2018.


----------



## Ypenhof

Good news, but then they should also start widening the A1 Barneveld-Hoevelaken to 3 lanes.


----------



## Koesj

That stretch will be widened to 2x4 with the big Hoevelaken interchange upgrade, after the aforementioned A1/A27 project is finished.


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## Ryme Intrinseca

ChrisZwolle said:


> A render of the future A16-A20 interchange


Interesting design. It looks like a stackturbine, similar to E19/E40 near Brussels or many US interchanges (e.g. SR101/SR202 near Phoenix), but minus one of the long turns, so seven of eight possible turning movements are provided.


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## junky

Ryme Intrinseca said:


> Interesting design. It looks like a stackturbine, similar to E19/E40 near Brussels or many US interchanges (e.g. SR101/SR202 near Phoenix), but minus one of the long turns, so seven of eight possible turning movements are provided.


There are more of these in the Netherlands. The biggest is "Ridderkerk". Also on the A16 but then 9km further south.
https://goo.gl/maps/1m4jA637oBL2









https://beeldbank.rws.nl/MediaObject/Details/Het_Knooppunt_Ridderkerk_is_een_verkeersknooppunt_in_Ridderkerk_en_voor_een_gedeelte_in_Rotterdam_479977









https://beeldbank.rws.nl/MediaObject/Details/476710


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## Koesj

Nahh what Ryme Intrinseca's saying is factually correct: the original full design for Terbregseplein was a symmetrical stack/turbine, and now with the belated extension of the A16 it'll be completed three quarters of the way (the southbound right turn is a local offramp, part of junction 27).

So very much like those Brussels interchanges indeed, whereas Ridderkerk Noord is a more complex, hybrid clover/mill/stack with mondo braided ramps.


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

Yes exactly. Ridderkirk noord does not have any cyclic (ie turbine style) ramps - the left turns are all via loops or stack-style semi-direct connectors. The stackturbine design is very unusual in Europe - I believe there are only two full access examples (the Belgian example I mentioned and one near Bilbao airport).


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## junky

Sorry, didn't know that. Thanks for explaining


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N62 Sloeweg, Zeeland*

Two photos of the new N62 expressway southwest of Goes.



Hart van Zeeland said:


> Twee plaatjes van de verdubbelde Sloeweg (N62), richting de A58.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A7, Afsluitdijk*

The swing bridges at Kornwerderzand, on the north end of the _Afsluitdijk_ (Enclosure Dam). They have a tendency to malfunction during the summer, in hot weather the bridges expand so they can't close properly, causing very long delays and detours. They sometimes bring the fire department in to hose the bridges and cool them off.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A50, Veghel - Oss*

Applying road markings on the resurfaced A50 from Veghel to Oss.


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## Slagathor

Why are they using what looks vaguely like a Ford Model T?


----------



## g.spinoza

To me it's more like the Wash Wonka machine...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Alblasserdam*

The bridge across the Noord River at Alblasserdam, seen on this 1989 photo. It was built in 1939, it carried A15 traffic until the six lane Noord Tunnel opened in 1992.

It has since been narrowed to three lanes, one general purpose lane in each direction and a bus lane in the center.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9, Amsterdam*

Recent aerial photos of the new Gaasperdam Tunnel under construction in southeastern Amsterdam. At 3027 meters, it is the longest land tunnel in the Netherlands.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A9, Amsterdam*

Some other photos of the A9 tunnel construction in Amsterdam. Courtesy of constructor Heijmans.

The officially announced opening date is sometime 2020, but I find it hard to believe it would take that long. They plan to build basically the entire tunnel in just 1 year, to be completed by summer 2017. I don't think they would need another 3 years to finish it.

What you will notice is the large amount of personnel simultaneously on the construction site. There is no such thing as a summer shutdown for them.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A28, Harderwijk*

A well-known hotel chain wanted to construct a massive advertising pole along A28 near Harderwijk. However, the municipality didn't want a huge billboard in a natural area. So they made a compromise, an observation tower with the logo of the hotel chain on top.

It was installed recently. The tower is 50 meters tall, it requires 226 steps to enter the observation platform. As it is located right next to A28, it gives some view of the motorway. I went out and climbed the tower yesterday.


A28 Harderwijk-0 by European Roads, on Flickr


A28 Harderwijk-1 by European Roads, on Flickr


A28 Harderwijk-2 by European Roads, on Flickr


A28 Harderwijk-3 by European Roads, on Flickr


A28 Harderwijk-4 by European Roads, on Flickr


A28 Harderwijk-5 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*N344 Wilhelmina Bridge, Deventer*

The renovation of the Wilhelmina Bridge at Deventer is ahead of schedule and will reopen 15 August at midnight, six days earlier than planned. They worked during weekends and the evenings, expediting the reconstruction.

The full closure was required to replace the concrete deck, which is completed in just 4 weeks.


----------



## Suburbanist

Is there a national standard for minimum height of guard-rails when these are used to protect cyclists from falling off a bridge or tall embankment?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Someone crashed his/her car on N14 near The Hague, it was split in two.


----------



## Slagathor

Right... :uh:


----------



## Luki_SL

ChrisZwolle said:


> Someone crashed his/her car on N14 near The Hague, it was split in two.


Someone ? If think it was street lamp :hmm:


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## keokiracer

Yes, someone was driving that car. That person crashed the car (into the lamppost). Therefor someone crashed his/her car. It also never claims that someone split the car in 2, it claims that the crash did this.


----------



## Kanadzie

It looks like a poorly designed road to have such lamps in a quasi-flush median that has relatively high travel speeds (see 90 km/h tempolimit in background) and a curve to boot.
Since they poured concrete anyway, why didn't they raise it to a Jersey barrier level?


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## ChrisZwolle

The speed limit on this road is 70 km/h (50 km/h near intersections). 

Urban roads have more flexibility when it comes to breakaway poles and protection of obstacles compared to high-speed roads. 

Jersey barriers are only infrequently used in the Netherlands. Most barriers are metal crash barriers.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1, Muiden*

This new stretch of A1 near Muiden will open on 22 August.


Viaduct aansluiting Muiden by dutchroadmovies, on Flickr


----------



## Luki_SL

^^The carriageway in the middle looks like expresslanes  Is it?


----------



## da_scotty

They are extra Rush-Hour-Lanes which run in the direction of the main flow of the rush hour.
So in the morning there will be 6+2 lanes towards and in the evening 6+2 lanes away from Amsterdam.


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## keokiracer

^^ well, there will be 5+2 lanes, not 6+2, right after this viaduct the left lane merges (merging arrows have yet to be painted)

Viaduct aansluiting Muiden by Jeroen, on Flickr

The 2 lanes in the middle are indeed reversible. Towards Amsterdam in morning rush hour, and towards Almere/Amersfoort in evening rush hour.


----------



## Luki_SL

keokiracer said:


> The 2 lanes in the middle are indeed reversible. Towards Amsterdam in morning rush hour, and towards Almere/Amersfoort in evening rush hour.


Is there any road in the Europe with such a reversible lanes ?


----------



## keokiracer

The Coentunnel (A10) in Amsterdam has a 2-lane reversible tube. There's a traffic-cam near it as well (it's closed now because sunday morning). Not sure about anything else in Europe. I know the Beneluxtunnel (A4) near Rotterdam has a reversible tube with 1 lane that isn't in use (and never has been, and also no plans to get it in operation)


edit: picture of A10 reversible lane being opened (accident in 'regular' tube). Screenshot courtesy of twitter.com/VID


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## MrAronymous

Being "opened". People driving through red crosses hno:


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## Luki_SL

^^How long it took to demolish these brigdes?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Only about 12 hours. They started last evening after they closed the motorway, and early this morning it was already mostly gone.

The demolished bridges are a local road bridge called 'De Goog' and the old railroad bridge.

This is the only other road in the area that connects Muiderberg and Muiden. You can imagine why they closed the local roads, this cannot handle even 10% of motorway traffic.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Congestion due to the closure of A1 east of Amsterdam is remarkably limited. The main cause for the delay is the long detour, not traffic congestion. 

Of course, it helps that A2 has 5 lanes in each direction. And it is still summer vacation, and Saturday trips tend to be less urgent (can be rescheduled) compared to commuting traffic. This was the traffic situation around 1:30 p.m.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Muiderberg*

The old railroad bridge over A1 is almost demolished. It's difficult work because they are much tougher than a small overpass.


----------



## Suburbanist

If they wanted a quick closure time, why didn't they go for controlled implosion + clearing the rubble? Do they want to recycle a lot of the stuff from the railway bridge?


----------



## Slagathor

I'm not sure controlled explosion would be that much of a time saver in this scenario. If you factor in the careful placement of the explosives, which can take a long time, it'll probably take nearly as long as putting as much demolition equipment on it as you can fit. I mean, they got a pretty impressive number of digger things working on it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yep, and the new arch bridge is located literally right next to it. Even a controlled explosive demolition could damage it.


----------



## Christian_AT

Slagathor said:


> I'm not sure controlled explosion would be that much of a time saver in this scenario. If you factor in the careful placement of the explosives, which can take a long time, it'll probably take nearly as long as putting as much demolition equipment on it as you can fit. I mean, they got a pretty impressive number of digger things working on it.


no a explosion is not faster, because what the most people dont see is the preperation time, drill holes, fill with explosives, install the cables, the blast itself is fast

additional a explosion can damage the new infrastructure and during the installation of the explosive parts all other operations would be blocked because safety area, demolish is quite faster and safer


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another big project ongoing this weekend is the installation of a new road & bicycle bridge across the locks at Limmel (near Maastricht) in southern Netherlands.

It is 77 meters long, 7 meters wide and weighs 360 tonnes. It is the steel frame, concrete will be poured once it is installed. 

It's part of a project to replace the 80 year old locks of the Juliana Canal. The whole project is planned to be completed in 2018.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Muiderberg*

The demolition works of the railroad bridge across A1 near the Muiderberg motorway interchange are running behind schedule. The main culprit is the abutment on the north side of the motorway, which proves more difficult to demolish than they anticipated. Westbound A1 may not open in time tomorrow morning.

Eastbound works are doing okay, they still plan to open the new alignment of eastbound A1 tomorrow morning at 5 a.m.


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> Only about 12 hours. They started last evening after they closed the motorway, and early this morning it was already mostly gone.
> 
> The demolished bridges are a local road bridge called 'De Goog' and the old railroad bridge.
> 
> This is the only other road in the area that connects Muiderberg and Muiden. You can imagine why they closed the local roads, this cannot handle even 10% of motorway traffic.


Taking the local road over the Vecht when the A1 beidge was opened was not really faster anyway than wating on the motorway. Perhaps if the timing is perfect. On the other side, taking the shortcut via the shell gas station is quite popular there. Dont know how that compares. Anyway. The aquaduct will be a great improvement.

Had a family visiting yesterday and they would all normally have to take the A1. Some of them knew and chose a different route some of them did not and were stuck on the retours.


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> It will be demolished. The old motorway has a bascule bridge across the Vecht River that opens rather frequently. A bridge opening outside of rush hour usually results in a 5 km queue. Traffic is intense throughout the day and week with almost 200,000 vehicles per day.
> 
> The new alignment is wider (a minimum of 5+2+5 lanes) and has an aquaduct under the Vecht River. It is also farther from the town of Muiden, improving the quality of life there.


I disagree, roads improve the quality of life, there's a big sounds barrier so I doubt the noise was bad, especially since the residences start ~150m further.

It's an awful shame they will demolish the whole of it, you can think of many uses of a bit of tarmac. Hell even as a drag strip, though that is fantasy in NIMBY PC NL.

It's funny how in NL many people dislike roads, while in Eastern Europe nearly everyone applauds new roads. Only in NL (or maybe some other eco hippie country) perfectly good roads are destructed or downgraded after building a new road. In PL I've yet to see such examples, when they build a new road around the village they ensure people use it, by making it the better route compared to the old one, instead of going ''duurzaam debiel'' on the old road or even removing it (like they did the old A2 at Utrecht). Eg. Garwolin/S17, they left the main road though the town exactly as it is, no downgrading or speedbumping.


----------



## junky

Drone video from the A1


----------



## temlin

Video of the rail road bridge:


----------



## g.spinoza

Italian newspapers are writing about the Dutch proposal of banning the sale of diesel and petrol cars in 2025. How serious is this?


----------



## 8166UY

Not. The government has decided to strive to a 100% electrical sales figure for new cars in 2025, but it will not be before 2035 before it can be legally so due to some agreements, and even than it is unlikely. Also, the tax benefits for electrical cars are decreasing in the last years to save the state some money.
I heard that American newspapers wrongly translated some Dutch articles last week and it has reached the news there, so that's probably the reason why you also heard the wrong thing.


----------



## Slagathor

Americans and their useless foreign language skills...


----------



## Des

ChrisZwolle said:


> The demolition works of the railroad bridge across A1 near the Muiderberg motorway interchange are running behind schedule. The main culprit is the abutment on the north side of the motorway, which proves more difficult to demolish than they anticipated. Westbound A1 may not open in time tomorrow morning.
> 
> Eastbound works are doing okay, they still plan to open the new alignment of eastbound A1 tomorrow morning at 5 a.m.


Very impressive! In Germany something like this would take three years at least... hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A great video by ProRail detailing the demolition of the old railroad bridge and the sliding in of the new arch bridge.







And a video driving over the new A1. It's huge.


----------



## temlin

ChrisZwolle said:


> A great video by ProRail detailing the demolition of the old railroad bridge and the sliding in of the new arch bridge.
> 
> gB383vT60tA


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=134899635&postcount=13794 

^^^^


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A59 Waalwijk*

The new bridge of A59 across the Drongelen Canal near Waalwijk is almost completed and will be put into service in two phases on 26 September and 10 October. 

The original bridge was built in 1955 and was never designed to carry motorway traffic. N59 was widened to A59 in the 1970s, using the existing bridge. It was narrow and had a reduced speed limit of 70 km/h.

They replaced the 1955 bridge. First they built a temporary bridge, then they demolished the old bridge and built a new, wider one with a 100 km/h design speed. 

The temporary bridge was built in the second half of 2015 (around September/October). The old bridge was then demolished, and they built the new bridge in about 8 months. 

This is an aerial photo that shows the old bridge (left) and temporary bridge (right):









An aerial photo that shows the construction of the new bridge, the photo was probably taken in the spring, I haven't seen any more recent aerial photos of the project.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Rotterdamsebaan*

The first construction works on the Rotterdamsebaan Tunnel, also known as the 'Victory Boogie-Woogie Tunnel' in The Hague started on 5 September. They started with the construction of a pit just north of the Ypenburg motorway interchange (A4/A13). It will be finished in April 2017.

The construction pit is 250 meters long and at the maximum 18 meters deep. The tunnel boring machine will be assembled in it. Actual tunnel boring is planned to start in 2018, and the tunnel should open to traffic in 2020.

As this project does not have a major traffic impact, they don't work around the clock on it, they basically only work on workdays from 7 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. and only infrequently on Saturdays. This saves quite a bit of money.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Badhoevedorp*

New aerial photos of the new A9 around the town of Badhoevedorp, just outside Amsterdam & Schiphol Airport. They were taken on 1 August.

1. The Badhoevedorp interchange, looking west. A9 will turn off here to bypass Badhoevedorp.









2. A9 will cross over A4 and the railroad to Schiphol. As a side note, the Badhoevedorp interchange is the oldest cloverleaf in the Netherlands, it opened in 1967.









3. Looking southwest. A9 and A4 will run side-by-side for a short stretch near Schiphol Airport.









4. The eastbound carriageway of A9 is already in use for traffic towards Amsterdam. This is the new Badhoevedorp exit.









5. On the west side of Badhoevedorp, looking east. The old A9 to the left will be demolished once the new motorway is operational.









All photos by _Rijkswaterstaat / Your Captain Luchtfotografie _


----------



## srini39

the water , road combination look sweet.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Muiden*

Traffic was moved to the new reversible lanes of A1 near Muiden today. Unfortunately there was a lane closure the same day due to a breakdown.










As an interesting factoid, there are on average 800 - 1000 workers present on the 23 kilometer A1-A6 segment every single day. There are more workers during major closures.

It's a long-term PPP contract, the SAAOne consortium will receive a € 200 million bonus if they manage to complete it on time.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Waze*

* Waze Index Reveals Where in the World are the Best and Worst Places to be a Driver *

For the second consecutive year, the most satisfying place in the world to drive is the Netherlands, thanks to its smooth traffic conditions and solid road quality and infrastructure. Rounding out the top five are France, the United States, the Czech Republic, and Sweden.​
https://blog.waze.com/2016/09/waze-index-reveals-where-in-world-are.html


----------



## Wilhem275

Well, maybe to commute. In order to _drive_, you need curves and possibly hills... :troll:


----------



## Rebasepoiss

How popular is Waze in the Netherlands?


----------



## mappero

ChrisZwolle said:


> The final plans (_tracébesluit_) for the A16 extension around Rotterdam have been approved. The plans will be published on 25 August. It comes 11 months after the draft plan for the project. They want to begin construction next year.


It's a great news 

Anyway, any projects or plans about the connection in between Beneluxtunnel (A4), precisely A4/A15 junction, and the this point (where the junction is not finished but the motorway goes on the curve) Klaaswaal on A29 ?
This will straighten the Antwerpen <--> Den Haag A4 motorway trace and will create better alternative than motorway A16 via Breda.


----------



## 8166UY

Rebasepoiss said:


> How popular is Waze in the Netherlands?


Depends at which age group you look. The younger drivers tend to know the app, although I don't really know how many actually use it frequently.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

mappero said:


> Anyway, any projects or plans about the connection in between Beneluxtunnel (A4), precisely A4/A15 junction, and the this point (where the junction is not finished but the motorway goes on the curve) Klaaswaal on A29 ?
> This will straighten the Antwerpen <--> Den Haag A4 motorway trace and will create better alternative than motorway A16 via Breda.


This section has been a part of long-term plans since the 1950s, however, it remained just that; a long term plan. There is some regional push to construct it, but it doesn't have a high priority in The Hague. I consider it unlikely that it gets built before 2025-2030.

The A15 expansion also improved the situation, as north-south traffic now uses A15 to get from A4 to A29. So there's less urgency to build this expensive motorway segment.

In my opinion a new bridge for local traffic + public transport and an 'N38' tunnel on the east side of Rotterdam is a higher priority.


----------



## MrAronymous

Rebasepoiss said:


> How popular is Waze in the Netherlands?


I'd say not very. I'm guessing services like Routeradar are more popular.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Gouda*

The new parallel road along A12 near Gouda.










More photos by De Fotograaf


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*news briefs*

Some brief news reports that surfaced today.

*road spending*
BNR (formerly _Business News Radio_) studied the expenditures of _Rijkswaterstaat_, and concluded that 80% of the budget is spent in just three provinces; North Holland, South Holland & Utrecht. 

The _per capita_ investment between 2010 and 2015 is particularly low in Drenthe, North Brabant & Limburg provinces. Though this comparison may not be entirely fair, as North Brabant has had large road projects just prior to 2010. But the province is generally seen as underfunded. Drenthe is very rural and has virtually no traffic problems, so the lower investment in that province is justified. 

*Smartphone in traffic*
A study by _Veilig Verkeer Nederland_ and Samsung found out that 20% of traffic accidents involving students had smartphone usage in play. The study found out that the average student checks his/her phone 120 times per day. This is a new style of addiction that is widespread. 

It is considered difficult to resolve this. The urge to immediately check or answer to a message on a smart phone is very high, so information campaigns are unlikely to have much, if any effect. They also don't see it useful to ban smartphone usage on a bicycle if there is no chance it will be enforced properly. They're introducing a 'bicycle mode' that supress other apps when moving at a certain speed. But that's voluntary.

*Traffic growth*
A new study based on demographic, economic & spatial developments in the Netherlands indicates that vehicle kilometers will increase by 30% up to 2030. This is a slightly lower growth scenario than the one that was assumed until now (where the high growth scenario had a 35% growth). Public transport passenger kilometers are also forecast to grow by 30%. 

The construction lobby group _Bouwend Nederland_ wants to reverse the previously introduced spending cuts on the Infrastructure Fund, and also increase funding as the spending level on maintenance & replacement would need to increase as more and more infrastructure is over 50 years old. The main problem here is municipal infrastructure. Municipalities almost never have long-term plans to set aside funding for replacement of bridges and other infrastructure, but will have the largest task replacing it all.


----------



## ErwinFCG

ChrisZwolle said:


> *road spending*
> BNR (formerly _Business News Radio_) studied the expenditures of _Rijkswaterstaat_, and concluded that 80% of the budget is spent in just three provinces; North Holland, South Holland & Utrecht.
> 
> The _per capita_ investment between 2010 and 2015 is particularly low in Drenthe, North Brabant & Limburg provinces. Though this comparison may not be entirely fair, as North Brabant has had large road projects just prior to 2010. But the province is generally seen as underfunded. Drenthe is very rural and has virtually no traffic problems, so the lower investment in that province is justified.


According to BNR, "Citizens of the Netherlands pay an equal amount of taxes for road investments, but people from Drenthe benefit from these investments much less than people from Utrecht." This would suggest that people only drive within their own province. For example, citizens of Drenthe very much enjoy the advantages of the road widening of the A28 Meppel-Zwolle (2010-2011), even though that is in Overijssel. The same for the reconstruction of the ring road of Groningen. Also the investments in Flevoland/North Holland (A1/A6/A9/A10) are useful for a very large part of the country (at least for the northern provinces e.g. to get to Schiphol Airport).

While the statistics are quite interesting, I think the conclusions of BNR (that people from some provinces enjoy the benefits of road investments more than others) are nonsense.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ True, almost anyone in the Netherlands could benefit from road projects in Utrecht as it is by far the most important province where traffic from many areas of the country pass through.

In addition, they do not pay 'equal taxes', tax revenue is largely related to the population, so it's not like each province pays 1/12th of tax revenue.


----------



## Slagathor

If you never leave your own province, you don't even really need a car.


----------



## verreme

ErwinFCG said:


> While the statistics are quite interesting, I think the conclusions of BNR (that people from some provinces enjoy the benefits of road investments more than others) are nonsense.


That's journalism for ya. Then you have the usual coffee-break small talk about state budgets being unfair and blah blah and populist politicians who capitalize it and lots, lots of bullshit in news, politics and coffee breaks.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Dutch radio journalism has tanked in particular because radio frequencies are auctioned off to the highest bidder. Which mean they have to be mainstream to create revenue to pay for those high-priced radio frequencies. There are almost no nationwide 'alternative' radio stations, that go more in-depth and less standard, both in regards to news and music selection. The 'classic rock' stations only play the same number one hits over and over again and only rare venture into 'album tracks'. 

BNR as a news station has a much wider selection of topics than other commercial and even public radio stations, but it stays relatively 'general' and presenters don't like to delve too deep into topics that aren't understood easily by the general population. But that means it's less interesting radio for people who are more knowledgable on the subject.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*2017 budget*

The third Tuesday in September is the traditional _Prinsjesdag_ (Little Prince's Day) where the budget for the next year is officially unveiled.

The budget includes the MIRT funding programming for infrastructure projects. It's the most important part of the Infrastructure & Environment budget that details which projects get funded over the next years (basically until 2030, but changes can be made each year).

Most of the plans have leaked as usual, and the leaks do not indicate the funding for infrastructure will change. There have been calls among advocacy groups and provinces to reverse the 2012 budget cuts on the infrastructure fund, and increase funding for transportation due to the aging of the infrastructure and high growth of vehicle / passenger kilometers on both the road and rail systems (30% until 2030).


----------



## keokiracer

That was during the construction and it was supposed to resemble the famous Dutch flower fields.


----------



## MrAronymous

Something with the concrete hardening and having to be covered for some reason I believe.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9, Badhoevedorp*

Installation of prefabricated beams of the new A9 across the railroad near Schiphol Airport.






The extensive use of prefabricated beams is one of the reasons why bridge construction in the Netherlands doesn't require much time. They can build the entire bridge in a couple of months instead of 1 - 1.5 years. It has also less impact on traffic and train services, as the portion over the road can be done during a weekend or night closure, instead of requiring a long-term construction zone.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A6/A7 Knooppunt Joure*

New aerial photos of the Joure Interchange. The roundabout will be replaced by a directional T interchange with flyovers about a kilometer to the south. A new exit to Joure will be constructed near the current location of the roundabout.

It will be completed in 2017.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A27/A1 widening*

*Financial close A27/A1 PPP motorway project*

3Angle B.V., comprising of Heijmans Capital (a joint venture of Heijmans and 3i Infrastructure), 3i Infrastructure and Fluor Infrastructure, has reached the financial close for the A27/A1 public private partnership (PPP) project running between Utrecht North – Eemnes Junction and the Bunschoten-Spakenburg interchange. 

The financial close follows the provisional awarding of the project announced on 30 June 2016. The project’s contract value amounts to approximately € 220 million (including management and maintenance for a period of 25 years).​
Press release: http://www.heijmans.nl/en/news/financial-close-a27a1-ppp-motorway-project/

€ 220 million is below the € 261 million budget for this project. This is another example of how PPP allows quick construction, it takes less than two years to widen 24 kilometers of motorway, where A1 will be widened from 2x2 to 2x4 lanes and A27 from 2x2 to 2x3 with space for 2x4.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N356 Drachten - Dokkum*

The 21 kilometer four lane expressway (N356) from Drachten to Dokkum will open to traffic this evening. It is one of the largest provincial road projects in the Netherlands.


----------



## 0095914

devo said:


> Regarding A1 in Muiden, what is going on here? The pattern is also on the other side of the canal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.google.no/maps/@52.323098,5.0669926,144m/data=!3m1!1e3


I think those are large pieces of fabric lying on top of the concrete so the concrete can stiffen properly


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Leiden*

A new grade-separation opened to traffic this evening in Leiden, at the Plesmanlaan-Haagse Schouwweg (N206) intersection.

It's close to the 'motorway overpass' sport cafeteria that was built in 1939-1940 for a motorway feeder to A4 that was never completed after WW II.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9*

The northbound bridge of A9 across the 'side canal C' near Haarlem won't close. This leads to a massive traffic jam.

The first mechanic on scene couldn't repair it, so they needed another mechanic to manually close the bridge. Traffic has been stopped for three hours.


----------



## snowdog

Opening bridges don't belong on motorways hno:.

Such a tiny group creating huge loss of time and inconvenience to such a big group.


----------



## WillBuild

ChrisZwolle said:


> However, there may be good news. A motion was passed recently to add a third through lane at Leiden, creating a 1+3+3+1 configuration.
> 
> A third lane would be very easy to construct, the pavement is already there in the Limes Aquaduct, and a wide median is available elsewhere.


One could wonder whether this has been the plan all along 

A 6 lane road is easier to get past critics than an 8 lane one. But if you build for 8 lanes from the start and wait for the need to become clear..

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor. This just seemed so obvious each time I drove through that wide tunnel (outside rush hour, so I had less time to ponder it than the regulars, even).


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## Koesj

The trench/tunnel/aqueduct/whatever you want to call it has room for ten (probably twelve) lanes anyway, and IIRC the parallel setup to the south is good for 2-3-3-2 room-wise.

But it's like Chris said: the EIS was pretty ancient when it was finally built, and six (split) lanes just don't cut it even though they're brand new.


----------



## Koesj

Here's the new A1 alignment as seen from the air (the old motorway is to the right, and currently being demolished):










Source: @RWS_SAA


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A27 Merwede Bridge*

The A27 Merwede Bridge near Gorinchem has been closed to all truck traffic, effective immediately.

They inspected the bridge for the planned widening of A27, in which the bridge will be turned into a one-way facility with 3 northbound lanes. They found fatigue on the beams of the north arch last week and closed it for heavy trucks over 60 tons.

They now found out the southern arch is in a poorer condition, and they closed it for all traffic over 3.5 tons, to keep the bridge from deteriorating any further. It's unknown how long the truck ban will be kept in place.

The bridge carries 95,000 vehicles per day, including 19,000 trucks, far beyond the anticipated traffic volumes when the bridge was designed in the 1950s. The bridge opened to traffic in 1961. The bridge was quickly outdated with no shoulders and only a curb as the median divider. A crash barrier was added later.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A27 Merwede Bridge update*

There is some more news about the truck ban at the Merwede Bridge near Gorinchem.

Road authority _Rijkswaterstaat_ already planned a 2-month construction project to strengthen the bridge, which was planned to begin within several weeks. They are now looking into accelerating that project. 

The goal is to strengthen the bridge sufficiently to have it in operation with no limitations, which means even special transports over 60 tons will be able to cross the bridge. 

The main problem is fatigue on the beams. It is a steel bridge, so this problem is not uncommon for older bridges. The standard inspection cycle is an extensive inspection every 6 years and a visual inspection every 2 years. The next extensive inspection was planned for next year.

They do not anticipate that a replacement is necessary in the near or medium-term future. The planned widening can proceed as planned, and even takes some load off the bridge, as it will only carry northbound traffic, potentially slashing the amount of trucks in half.


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

Koesj said:


> Here's the new A1 alignment as seen from the air (the old motorway is to the right, and currently being demolished):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: @RWS_SAA


What is the two lane road inbetween the main carriageways? Maybe HOV or C/D lanes in one direction?


----------



## MrAronymous

They're indeed reversible rush hour express lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They are reversible lanes indeed. They operate westbound in the morning and eastbound in the evening, so there are 7 lanes of traffic in the peak direction.

There are no HOV restrictions, but I think they don't allow semi trucks. 

The original reversible lane on the now demolished stretch of A1 did have a carpool restriction on it when it opened in 1993. However they opened it to all cars 10 months later because it wasn't legal. The reversible lane was then expanded to two lanes in 2011. And it is now incorporated in the relocated A1.

The reversible lane will extend all the way across A9 to the Holendrecht interchange (A2) and across A6 to Almere. I wonder if this will be the longest reversible lane in Europe. It will be some 20 kilometers long.


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

Thanks for replies. I'm surprised that this was considered the optimum layout. You can see that the barriers either side of the express lanes take up nearly two lanes' width, so with two sets of barriers, 12 lanes and 2 hard shoulders you have an approximately 18 lane cross section. 

For the same width they could have had a US-style 5+2+2+5 arrangement, with just one set of barriers in the middle. The inner express/HOV lanes would be separated only by paint or a low kerb from the main carriageway, providing a permanent seven running lanes in each direction and no need for the additional operational issues involved with a tidal flow system.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 LED lighting*

They are going to install LED lighting along A2 between Amsterdam and Utrecht. Road authority _Rijkswaterstaat_ calls it the 'widest motorway in the world lit by LED'. It will reduce electricity consumption by 38%, the investment will pay itself off within 7 years. The current lighting was due for replacement anyway. 

The LED lights will illuminate 2x5-2x6 lanes. LED will save 241,600 KWh per year.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 LED lighting*

New LED lights on A2. This looks like the Breukelen exit.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A27 Merwede Bridge update*

They installed new traffic control on A27 northbound at the Nieuwendijk exit, now with two lanes open.










inspecting 6,144 bolts.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A27 Merwede Bridge update*

They took the information for international drivers to the next level.

These VMSs are placed at the A16 Hazeldonk border crossing.


----------



## keokiracer

There's also a bunch at the A1 De Lutte border crossing:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Here's another one at De Lutte. Apparently they are signed in 12 different languages. I've never seen something like that before...


----------



## Suburbanist

I hope this is just overkill instead of some corruption involving the company that rents the VMS panels.


----------



## Wilhem275

Just out of curiosity, may I see the Italian one? :lol:

Also, I learn now that extra urban speed limit is 80.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

I wonder why they just say lorries on the English language one. I thought it's all heavy vehicles that are banned from the bridge. ?


----------



## CNGL

Wilhem275 said:


> Just out of curiosity, may I see the Italian one? :lol:
> 
> Also, I learn now that extra urban speed limit is 80.


Edit: I had not noticed the Spanish one is already posted. Weird to see that (and that many languages) in the Netherlands


----------



## Attus

keokiracer said:


> There's also a bunch at the A1 De Lutte border crossing:


I wonder how many of you could identify the language without the flag


----------



## ChrisZwolle

KIWIKAAS said:


> I wonder why they just say lorries on the English language one. I thought it's all heavy vehicles that are banned from the bridge. ?


Signs near the bridge indicate it's closed for buses as well. They said they can't install a '3.5 t' sign because it cannot be enforced without some kind of portable weigh station. 

Only a very small share of traffic is over 3.5 tons, but not a truck or bus. And most of those will only be slightly over 3.5 tons, so it's not considered a problem. 

The usage of the word 'lorry' is interesting. It's correct British English, but it appears to me that most Europeans who do not have British English as a native language use the word 'truck'. Just look around on these forums, the word 'lorry' (or HGV if you will) is hardly used outside of a UK context.


----------



## sotonsi

ChrisZwolle said:


> The usage of the word 'lorry' is interesting. It's correct British English, but it appears to me that most Europeans who do not have British English as a native language use the word 'truck'. Just look around on these forums, the word 'lorry' (or HGV if you will) is hardly used outside of a UK context.


Presumably they got a Brit to write it?

Which is odd, as Dutch people have excellent English


----------



## Suburbanist

Marechausse is quite an odd word, looks ancient. They should have used Royal Marshall Service, don't they?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The general population in the Netherlands is more geared towards American English due to the amount of TV programming from U.S. shows and online content. But academia and government far more often use British English, due to the proximity and close ties to the United Kingdom. It's not uncommon to see people use a mix of both (such as the 'World Trade Centre' or 'Pearl Harbour').


----------



## Suburbanist

At one of my workplaces, they often use American vocabulary, but British orthography.


----------



## Suburbanist

Dramatic rescue of a toddler from a running car on A20


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ VW love to catch fire...


----------



## keokiracer

^^ No, tuned cars (no matter what brand) like to catch on fire (I've read it had to do with brake-problems, probably cause the chassis is so low it's probably heating things up too much). VW-group vehicles just like to spew out more shit than they're allowed to


----------



## Suburbanist

Was this car "tuned up"?

I'd never do that to a car I owned. I just don't see the point. To each its own though, good luck to people who want to spend € 40 000 and then wreck a carefully designed products with sub-optimal tire sizes/bands, strengthened suspension, tweaked shock absorbers and the like.

At least "rolling coal" is not a thing in Netherlands (and probably illegal, for good reason)


----------



## keokiracer

Suburbanist said:


> Was this car "tuned up"?


Just look at the thumbnail, it's modified more than Marijke Helwegen's face.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*LED lighting*

LED will now become the standard lighting on motorways. They will introduce it on all reconstruction, replacement or greenfield projects.


----------



## Slagathor

Unless you live outside the Randstad, I guess, where darkness prevails.


----------



## renroz

ChrisZwolle said:


> A6 from Almere to A1 is closed this weekend for major paving operations. They also install new signage.


Thanks for mentioning. I need to go from Groningen to The Hague this saturday :lol:


----------



## da_scotty

I believe it was last weekend, but anyway, isn't the A12/A28 combination faster for you?


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> A6 from Almere to A1 is closed this weekend for major paving operations. They also install new signage.


Hehe, pity I did not check the thread, eh never mind that would be too late anyway. Google did not show any problems . I had to notice it the hard way in Emmeloord. . And I was really looking forward to the new aqueduct .


----------



## ErwinFCG

da_scotty said:


> I believe it was last weekend, but anyway, isn't the A12/A28 combination faster for you?


From Groningen, A7-A6 is faster to most destinations in the Randstad. Even to Utrecht, A7-A6-A27 is usually faster than taking the A28 from the beginning to the end. I think mostly because the A28 has a detour via Hoogeveen, and the maximum speed is low in Zwolle.


----------



## Bender

Message to all Dutch members: Could you please stop rubbing our faces in your perfectly-planned, quickly-executed civil engineering marvels? A bit of compassion for your suffering neighbors would be highly appreciated.
Thank you.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

et:

There's still a ton of congestion to worry about, especially this time of the year. A very low share of congestion is due to road works (around 3%) but incidents and lack of capacity are still major problems. 

The Dutch road network still has a huge backlog, as it transformed from an intercity motorway network to a metropolitan road network since the 1980s. A significant amount of mileage still needs a widening and many motorway-to-motorway interchanges need upgrading. 

The need for new greenfield motorway projects is limited though. Many of the long-term missing links are recently completed or will be within the next 5 years.


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> The need for new greenfield motorway projects is limited though. Many of the long-term missing links are recently completed or will be within the next 5 years.


There is still a plausible need for a handful of new links, such as connecting Doetinchem with Enschede*, Zwolle and Almelo, Eindhoven with Belgian border, extending A30 to A15, and something expensive and full of tunnels to solve access problems southwest of Den Haag (linking A44 with the A20 terminus) through the build-up area.

*I consider the Achterhoek to be the region with worse road access in Netherlands, other than Texel island.


----------



## Bender

ChrisZwolle said:


> et:
> 
> The Dutch road network still has a huge backlog, as it transformed from an intercity motorway network to a metropolitan road network since the 1980s. A significant amount of mileage still needs a widening and many motorway-to-motorway interchanges need upgrading.


A bit of backlog and some missing links would be seen as First World Problems here in Duitsland :lol:

I am often bitching about the absolute embarrassment that is road works in Germany. If some politician tries to justify the situation by usual BS such as "you don't understand" "it's tough" "can't be done" "quality takes time", we can point at Holland and say "Dude, shut up". 

Full disclosure: I don't envy your insane level of BPM, though.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N361 Winsum - Mensingeweer*

A 3.5 kilometer new alignment of provincial road N361 was completed this weekend in Groningen province. They built a new two-lane, 80 km/h road that bypasses the village of Mensingeweer and replaces a narrow 60 km/h section of N361. 

It's one of several projects to make N361 a safer road. Construction lasted for 15 months.


----------



## MichiH

Bender said:


> If some politician tries to justify the situation by usual BS such as


"unexpected", e.g. "unexpected weather conditions"... :bash:


----------



## ErwinFCG

*N7 Groningen southern ring road - planning*



ChrisZwolle said:


> The Council of State today has dismissed the appeals against the reconstruction of N7 through the northern city of Groningen. This means construction can start, it is already tendered, so construction could possibly begin before the end of the year.
> 
> It's one of the most expensive (per km) projects in the Netherlands, with a budget of € 666 million to upgrade a 4 km stretch of N7 to a fully controlled-access expressway with up to eight lanes. However, the main contract came in much lower at € 388 million.


I think after this post by Chris, there has been no update yet on the planning of the work for the N7 in Groningen (southern section of the ring road). On the website of the project, there is now an overview of the phases of the work.

In general, the project has been divided in four 'clusters'. Work starts in early-2017, except for works on underground cables, pipelines, and sewer systems (has already started) and the demolition of a few houses to make more space (starts this week).

*Cluster West*: The A7 motorway (direction Amsterdam) from the western suburb of Hoogkerk to the city. The work includes increased capacity on part of this road section, the construction of additional motorway exits at Hoogkerk specifically for public buses (2017), and rebuilding the Vrijheidsplein junction (A7/southern ring road/western ring road). The Vrijheidsplein is now a roundabout with a flyover for the A7-southern ring road; it will be a completely grade-separated junction (2018-2020). During construction, there will be narrowed lanes and some diversions of traffic, but no major traffic disruption is expected for this cluster. 
*Cluster Julianaplein*: The A28/southern ring road junction. Now a road intersection with traffic lights, it will be a grade-separated stack interchange (_see image below_). For during the construction (2018-2021), a temporary junction with traffic lights will be built just next to the current one, with the same capacity, so there is space for the construction of the flyovers. No major traffic disruption expected.
*Cluster 'tunnel'*: The main section of the southern ring road will be constructed below ground level, with a few covers (officially it is not a tunnel, but a road covered by a series of a few very wide bridges). This section is expected to lead to most of the traffic disruption. The road will be narrowed to four narrow lanes, two per direction, on the northern (west-bound) part of the current road (2017). Then the southern (east-bound) part can be demolished to make space for the 'tunnel' (2018). The new road should be opened to traffic by early-2021. Related to this cluster is a new road tunnel under the railway, about 1 km to the south (construction 2017-2018). The current railway crossing is under the ring road, but once the ring road has been built in a tunnel, that is not possible anymore. Next to where the ring road crosses the railway, a bicycle tunnel will be added.
*Cluster East*: the part of the southern ring road east of the tunnel, leading to the A7 (direction Germany). The Europaplein exit will be rebuilt so that no traffic lights are needed anymore. This is a major exit leading to among others the city centre, the university hospital, and the football stadium. Most of the work can be done without major disruptions, except in the summer of 2018 the west-bound lanes will be closed for six weeks, and in the summer of 2019 all lanes will be closed for six weeks. Construction is planned from early-2018 to early-2020.
Of course we will have to wait and see whether the traffic disruption can be really limited in the way they suggest. Some additional measures are/will be taken, for example incentives for companies to let their employees work at home or start work before/after rush hours, incentives for cycling and public transport (e.g. using the P+R facilities), and additional matrix signs for real-time traffic information and deviations. An additional complication may be that Groningen's main railway station will also be reconstructed in the coming years. I haven't seen any information yet on how the two projects are adjusted to each other.

_Image of the Julianaplein junction in 2021. Left is A28 towards Assen/Utrecht, top is N7/A7 towards Drachten/Amsterdam, top right is into the city, right is N7/A7 towards Hoogezand/Germany._ (image from www.aanpakringzuid.nl).









_Photo of the current situation of the Julianaplein junction from the same angle, with traffic lights._ (image from www.aanpakringzuid.nl).


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Nice! This is a very complex project, I'm thinking this is more difficult than the A9 tunnel in Amsterdam, where they have more space and more lanes to work with. 

Another very complex project to start soon is the southern part of A10 in Amsterdam, which will be built underground. It may be comparable in complexity with the 'Madrid Calle 30' project that ran from 2004-2007, except with a busy railroad in the median instead of a rivier.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Rotterdamsebaan, The Hague*

They started construction on the construction pit of the Rotterdamsebaan Tunnel in The Hague. They will build the pit so the tunnel boring machine can be assembled in it.


Aanleg bouwkuip Vlietzone by Rotterdamsebaan, on Flickr


Aanleg bouwkuip Vlietzone by Rotterdamsebaan, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*N355 Hurdegaryp*

Aerial footage of the new N355 bypass of Hurdegaryp in Friesland province (east of Leeuwarden). The N355 is a four-lane divided bypass of the town of Hurdegaryp that will tie into the recently opened N356 expressway from Drachten to Dokkum.

The Hurdegaryp bypass will open to traffic on 18 November.


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## Kanadzie

ChrisZwolle said:


> The need for new greenfield motorway projects is limited though. Many of the long-term missing links are recently completed or will be within the next 5 years.


For now... but long-term the clever Dutch will probably create another 50% more Netherlands into the ocean and need more motorways over there :lol:


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## Suburbanist

Kanadzie said:


> For now... but long-term the clever Dutch will probably create another 50% more Netherlands into the ocean and need more motorways over there :lol:


It would be interesting if they drained the IJmeer and built another polder there (as planned in the 1950s).


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## Slagathor

You people have heard of melting polar ice caps, right? We'll be moving to Apeldoorn much sooner than _into_ the North-fvcking-Sea. 

Although if we get another 100 or so years, at some point we'll probably start building floating cities. And then there'll be a referendum to push them to somewhere where the weather is a little nicer. Either way, we're not building an A80 to Doggerland.


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## Wilhem275

Well, maybe a _floating_ A80 to Doggerland... :shifty:


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## ChrisZwolle

The Autohof-system in Germany is privately operated and profitable as far as I know. They usually charge trucks for overnight parking.


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## Suburbanist

I wonder if these private rest stops will operate a system with washroom vouchers you pay to use and get some refund back.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Maastricht*

It has been announced that the 'King Willem-Alexander Tunnel' in Maastricht will open to traffic on 16 December 2016.

All four tubes will be put in operation simultaneously, earlier plans had a staggered opening.

The KWAT is a 2.6 kilometer long double-deck tunnel. It has 4 full-standard tubes, the lower tubes carry through traffic on A2 with a 100 km/h speed limit. The upper tubes carry local traffic on N2 with an 80 km/h speed limit.


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## ChrisZwolle

*aerial photography*

Some random aerial photos taken by Joop van Houdt, for Rijkswaterstaat. All photos are sourced from _Beeldbank Rijkswaterstaat_. They are chiefly taken in southern Netherlands.

1. A27 Keizersveer Bridge across the Bergsche Maas River. It is one of the few major (bailey) truss bridges in the Dutch road network.









2. A little ways north, the A27 Merwede Bridge that is currently closed to all trucks for repairs.









3. The bridge across the Drongelen Canal near Waalwijk (A59) during replacement in 2015.









4. The A59 bridge across the new Máxima Canal near 's-Hertogenbosch. It was built before the canal was dug.









5. The Dintelhaven Bridge (A15) in the Port of Rotterdam. It is the longest concrete box girder bridge in the Netherlands, with a 192 meter span.









6. A 'wet ecoduct' across the new A4 between Delft and Schiedam.









7. A traffic jam on A27 near Werkendam. The Merwede Bridge is the bottleneck, a narrow four-lane bridge that carries over 90,000 vehicles per day. A second bridge is planned to be built in the next few years.









8. The new N279 bridge across the Máxima Canal near 's-Hertogenbosch. The bridge is called 'De Nijvelaar'.









9. A turbo roundabout at the A4 Steenbergen interchange.









10. Rest area 'Staaldiep' along A15 in the Port of Rotterdam. The wind turbine was installed in 2014.









11. Rest area 'De Keizer' along A27, including a Fastned charging station.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A9, Amsterdam*

A timelapse video of the A9 Gaasperdam Tunnel construction in Amsterdam. The images were taken between February and October 2016.


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## ChrisZwolle

*electric cars*

The Netherlands now has 100,000 electric cars circulating on the roads. However, only 12,000 of those are battery-electric, the rest are plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEV). 

Battery-electric vehicles have a share of 0.015% (there are 8 million passenger cars in total). 

Electric vehicles are stimulated chiefly through tax breaks. They are exempt from the BPM (car purchase tax) and the MRB (road tax). However, their biggest incentive is for company vehicles, which pay a very low tax rate.

This resulted in a high volume of PHEV's being sold, including large SUVs such as the Mitsubishi Outlander. However, according to fuel card data, most of them are not used as intended, their average fuel consumption is almost as high as if they're never charged at all.

So, starting in 2017, they will end tax breaks for plug-in hybrids, with a 22% tax rate for company cars. Only fully electric cars will continue to be almost untaxed, at 4% company car tax and 0% car purchase tax and 0% road tax.


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## italystf

Would be feasible to tax hybrid company vehicles according to the fuel card?


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## ChrisZwolle

*A10 Amsterdam*

Some aerial photos of A10 in Amsterdam, taken by _Prorail_ in August 2016. They show the railway expansion and the motorway.

This is the southern segment of A10 around Amsterdam, which will be buried underground in a 12 lane tunnel.

1. This is the Rozenoord Bridge across the Amstel River. It originally opened with one span in 1981, a second motorway span in 1989, two rail bridges in 1989 and a third rail bridge in 2016.









2. A10 and the railroad corridor at the Amsterdam RAI Exhibition and Convention Centre.









3. This is A4, immediately west of the railway junction near 'De Nieuwe Meer' motorway interchange.









4. This is the Schinkel Bridge. A third rail bridge was built this year. During the A10 reconstruction, the southern (right) motorway bridge will be replaced with 3 new bridges, and a 5th road bridge will be built on the north (left) side. All in all, there will be 8 bridges with 6 tracks and 14 lanes.









5. The schematic for the Schinkel Bridge.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N355 Hurdegaryp*

The new four-lane bypass of Hurdegaryp (N355) in Friesland province opens to traffic tomorrow. It's the last major stage of the 'Centrale As' project to improve connections and safety in northeastern Friesland. N355-N356 will become the main route from Leeuwarden to Dokkum.


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## VITORIA MAN

no Shoulders ?


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## TM_Germany

expressways in the Netherlands never have shoulders AFAIK. If they fullfill all motorway standards, they get the "A"- designation.


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## VITORIA MAN

ok , strange for me


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## Suburbanist

VITORIA MAN said:


> ok , strange for me


This is part of the "sustainable safety" paradigm that dominates road construction in Netherlands: design MUST align with intended speeds.

Hence random curves or S-chicanes on rural 60km/h roads, or the meticulous adherence to horizontal signaling where it is due, or lack thereof on most 30km/h "low-speed zones".


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## ChrisZwolle

Yes, some people call it 'system autism', that nothing may deviate from the prescribed norm. However there is a large 'gray zone' in road classification, such as roads that do not have the function or volume to warrant an 80 km/h main road, but are straight and wide with detached bike paths so a 60 km/h limit is baloney.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Ring Groningen*

A major road change came to Groningen. As the grade-separation of the ring road is progressing, exit numbering and new interchange names have been introduced. 

The exit numbering starts at 1 at the east side of Groningen and proceeds counter-clockwise around the city, starting and ending at N7.

Two interchanges, considered focal points of the Ring Road, have been granted official 'knooppunt' status and are signed with a name, not a number as is common throughout the Dutch motorway system.

'knooppunt' status used to be reserved for interchanges between _autosnelwegen_ only, but the definition has expanded to interchanges between all types of controlled-access highways. 

The new official _knooppunt_ names are Boterdiep and Reitdiep.

Here's the scheme:


















Exit numbering is also applied to intersections with traffic lights, until they are grade-separated as well.


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## renroz

Cool. My town is upgrading step by step


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## ChrisZwolle

*A28 / N309 't Harde*

The reconstruction of the A28 interchange at 't Harde has been completed yesterday. They expanded provincial road N309 through the interchange.

The modifications;
* replacement of both motorway viaducts (6 weeks per bridge)
* additional lanes at N309 under the viaduct
* moving the on/offramps to align straight at traffic signals (used to be 4 uncontrolled T-intersections).

The project was done in 22 weeks.


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## JB1981

ChrisZwolle said:


> Exit numbering is also applied to intersections with traffic lights, until they are grade-separated as well.


A mirrored arrow would have looked better on the Vinkhuizen sign.


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## ChrisZwolle

*traffic developments*

The most recent data concerning the traffic jams.

1. Annual traffic jam weight (millions of kilometer-minutes).









2. The traveled kilometers on the main roads (_rijkswegen_) (billions of kilometers).









Some interesting things are to be observed here. 

You frequently hear about how the recession has reduced traffic congestion. This would imply that traffic congestion was reduced due to less traffic. However, if you compare the two graphs, you'll see the traffic jam reduction was the greatest from 2010-2014 while at the same time, the amount of traveled kilometers grew quite strongly from ~62.5 billion km to ~66 billion km.

At the same time, stories about 'peak car' have been common for years. It has been suggested that high growth scenarios are unrealistic and thus there is less need for road capacity expansion. However, if you look at the vehicle-kilometers traveled graph, you'll see 2014-2016 had the strongest traffic growth in the 21st century so far.


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## Rebasepoiss

^^ Was the rapid traffic growth "new traffic" that didn't exist before or was it due to a modal shift from other means of traffic?


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## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> Why did the new span went so late? That is not common in Netherlands (at least in the recent past).


The new span was completed on time. It's the renovation of the old span that took 2 years longer than planned. 

Some hope that northbound A50 could open with 4 lanes by Christmas. The current layout is six narrow lanes on the new span. The final layout is 4 southbound lanes on the new bridge and 2+2 northbound lanes on the old bridge (split lanes due to the pylons).


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## ChrisZwolle

*N279 's-Hertogenbosch - Veghel*

The widened N279 from 's-Hertogenbosch to Veghel was recently put into use with two southbound lanes. Reports indicate it opened on 27 or 28 November. 

They orginally planned to do the final paving works in Spring 2017 but some mild weather allowed for the paving of the wearing course in late November. Northbound traffic is still on a single lane, final paving is planned for March 2017. 

This also means that all interchanges on N279 are now in operation. N279 has been expanded from a two-lane road with traffic lights to a four lane expressway with interchanges. Although designed for 100 km/h (and its straight alignment could allow 120 km/h without a problem), it is posted at only 80 km/h to prevent it from being used by through traffic. 

80 km/h on such a wide and straight road is ridiculously low.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Amsterdam*

There is an increasing amount of delivery vans in Amsterdam (and other cities of course) due to the high demand for parcel services. On average, 40,000 parcels are delivered to households in Amsterdam every day, which is forecasted to grow to 100,000 parcels a day. It is causing increased congestion, the market is growing very fast due to internet shopping. The next stage, deliveries of groceries, is a rapidly growing market. 

As many streets in Amsterdam are narrow, delivery vans could block traffic easily on the canal streets. 

A number of solutions have been proposed, but none have been widely implemented to a point they actually reduce delivery van traffic so far. Bike messengers can deliver small and lightweight parcels, but they typically cannot deliver furniture or home appliances. Other proposals include unmanned aerial vehicles (drones) and an underground network of pneumatic tubes like they had in the 19th century.


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## MrAronymous

We need distribution centers where packages are divided by street/area and then delivered by cargo bike, electric vehicles or electric flatboats. It works for Utrecht and 's-Hertogenbosch.


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## Eric Offereins

^^ That would be better for reduction the air pollution as well as traffic.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N31, Harlingen*

Some recent photos of the N31 project in the northern city of Harlingen. They are constructing a four lane expressway with a canal crossing (aquaduct).


Panorama van het werk vanuit de kraan by N31 Harlingen, on Flickr


Panorama van het werk vanuit de kraan richting Zurich by N31 Harlingen, on Flickr


Hier komt het Centrale aansluiting viaduct by N31 Harlingen, on Flickr


Aanbrengen betonnen werkvloer aan de zuidzijde van het kanaal by N31 Harlingen, on Flickr


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## Darkone55

MrAronymous said:


> We need distribution centers where packages are divided by street/area and then delivered by cargo bike, electric vehicles or electric flatboats. It works for Utrecht and 's-Hertogenbosch.


This is used in Utrecht? I live in Utrecht but I've never come across this.. Any more info?


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## ChrisZwolle

*traffic safety*

Surprising figures from the European Transport Safety Council. They released the Road Safety Scorecard 2015.

While the Netherlands has one of the lowest _fatality_ rates, the _seriously injured_ rate is the worst in all of Europe. :nuts:

Well, this could mean several things. A likely scenario is that the registration rate is much better than in other countries. The high number of bicycle injuries is likely also a factor. While cycling is safe relative to kilometers traveled, the high volume of cyclists also increases both the fatality and injury rate, which results in a high rate per 1 million people.


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## M-NL

It must be a better registration rate. Some countries don't seem to have any seriously injured and others not hospitalisation. That's unlikely.

Also the distinction between 'seriously injured' and 'hospitalised' may cause confusion. 
When you have a MAIS3+ injury (which is the definition of 'serious injury') it seems very unlikely to me that you don't need to be hospitalised. For reference: A regular broken bone is 'just' MAIS2. Someone 'hospitalised' is therefore also likely to be 'seriously injured' as well, so have they accounted for that or can the same person be classified in both categories at once?


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## Nikolaj

ChrisZwolle said:


> Surprising figures from the European Transport Safety Council. They released the Road Safety Scorecard 2015.
> 
> While the Netherlands has one of the lowest _fatality_ rates, the _seriously injured_ rate is the worst in all of Europe. :nuts:
> 
> Well, this could mean several things. A likely scenario is that the registration rate is much better than in other countries. The high number of bicycle injuries is likely also a factor. While cycling is safe relative to kilometers traveled, the high volume of cyclists also increases both the fatality and injury rate, which results in a high rate per 1 million people.


Must have something to do with registration and/or definition. Denmark and The Netherlands has a very similar share of cycling traffic and allmost identical number of fatalities. Denmark however has no seriously injured at all!!


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## Slagathor

Maybe Danish ambulance drivers just roll your ailing body over into a ditch. Just a gentle push of a bumper to get you out of sight. 

Then in their log it reads:
"10.08 AM - Responded to call of injured cyclist. Arrived on scene, nothing found."


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## ChrisZwolle

You can see the figures have a very wide spread. For example Greece and Lithuania have one of the highest fatality rates, but a very low injury rate. That doesn't add up (literally  )


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## g.spinoza

^^ I think this depends on different definitions in different countries. Maybe in Greece and Lithuania (and a bunch of other contries, apparently) the injury figures are not recorded...


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## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Maastricht*

The municipality of Maastricht has released the opening permit of the King Willem-Alexander Tunnel (A2) in Maastricht.

It is planned to open all four tubes during the night of 15 to 16 December. They will start the operation to remove the barriers, road markings, traffic systems, etc. on Thursday after the evening rush hour. It is expected to open the first tube between 11 p.m. and 1 a.m. This is the lower A2 tube for southbound traffic to Liège. Early morning the lower A2 tube for northbound traffic to Eindhoven will open. 

Around the same time, the upper N2 tube for northbound traffic will open. During Friday morning, the upper N2 tube for southbound traffic opens, completing the procedure. 

Then, 57 years after the at-grade N2 opened to traffic through Maastricht, all traffic will be moved underground. 

The old N2 will then be demolished. The whole area will be redeveloped, which will take many more years to be completed. There will only be a street for local access once the N2 is removed.

The project has been completed on time and on budget.


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## italystf

The usefulness of that kind of statistics is close to zero, if data are collected with different criteria and are thus uncomparable.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A12-A27 Utrecht*

Very good news, the final plans of the A12 / A27 upgrade in Utrecht have been approved today. Transportation minister Schultz signed the final environmental impact assessment, it will be published on 19 January.

This is currently the most controversial motorway project, the city of Utrecht is a hotspot for the GreenLeft party which heavily opposes the project. They attempted to persuade the governing Labour Party to postpone the final EIA until after the elections, however the coalition agreement stipulated to proceed the project.

The plan is to separate the traffic flow between the Lunetten and Rijnsweerd motorway interchanges. Normally that would require a large basket weave, which would significantly impact the Amelisweerd forest. They came up with an alternate design where traffic flows are unweaved within the interchanges, so there is only a parallel system through the Amelisweerd area. There will be 14 lanes at this point.

A12 will be expanded from 10 to 12 lanes as well, by adding a third collector lane. A27 will also be expanded north and south of the Lunetten-Rijnsweerd section. The provincial road N230 along the north side of Utrecht will be upgraded to an 80 km/h expressway with grade-separation. The whole project has a budget of € 1.1 billion.

There is a daily gridlock at the Rijnsweerd motorway interchange, which is overwhelmed with traffic, in particular during the evening rush hour. It is the last section of motorways around the city of Utrecht to be upgraded. Northbound A27 has already been expanded from 4 to 6 lanes as an interim measure.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Maastricht*

The old N2 in Maastricht, showing 'De Geusselt' roundabout. It was replaced by traffic lights in the 1980s and starting tonight, will be the northern tunnelportal of the King Willem-Alexander Tunnel.

The photo was probably taken shortly after completion of N2 through Maastricht, which happened in 1959.

Circa 1959, looking south.









June 2016, also looking south.


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## junky

*A2 Tunnel Maastricht*

The A2 tunnel is open for traffic :cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

*N62, Zeeland*

Some more good news, the States-Provincial (assembly) of Zeeland province have approved the 'direct connector' design of the N62-N254 interchange after all.










It is located near the village of 's-Heerenhoek. It will replace a traffic light intersection. The project was originally part of the N62 upgrade from the Westerschelde Tunnel to Goes, but was running significantly over budget due to design errors. 

In June 2015, they decided to go ahead with the N62 twinning, but to postpone the N62-N254 interchange. The responsible deputy had to resign his post due to the problems.

The States-Provincial remained a proponent of the grade-separated interchange. The budget is € 20.1 million, and the interchange is expected to be completed by late 2018.


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## Slagathor

That's great news because that interchange was a serious flaw in the Goes-to-Ghent corridor.

Does that also mean the N254 will become 2x2 for the whole stretch between this intersection and the A58 near Middelburg? Right now it still goes from 2x2 to 1x1 at roughly the halfway point between Middelburg and the aforementioned intersection.


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## peezet

I still think that the other option with the half Haarlemmermeer and a roundabout is much saver due to the left driving trucks in this chosen interchange.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A9, Badhoevedorp*

Two stages of the A9 bypass of Badhoevedorp opened to traffic this weekend.

On 16 December, the connector from A9 (Haarlem) to A4 (Schiphol) opened to traffic. 

On 17 December, the main carriageway for eastbound traffic of A9 from Haarlem to Amstelveen opened to traffic. It is the first main segment of the reconstructed Badhoevedorp interchange to open to traffic.


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## ChrisZwolle

Road authority _Rijkswaterstaat_ compiled a list of tunnels closed most frequently due to overheight trucks.

Number of closures in 2015:
* Velsen Tunnel (A22): 8677
* Coen Tunnel (A10): 1249
* Drecht Tunnel (A16): 438
* Zeeburg Tunnel (A10): 326
* Swalmen Tunnel (A73): 146

There are 18 tunnels in the national road network, another six are planned or under construction. The clearance varies by tunnel. Newer tunnels are built with a 4.7 m clearance so they don't need any type of detection for overheight trucks. 

Photo: Kethel Tunnel (A4).


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## ChrisZwolle

*speed limits*

The speed limits go up on several stretches of motorway.

* A2 Leenderheide - Budel: from 120 to 130 km/h
* A7 Tijnje - Drachten: from 120/130 to 130 km/h
* A12 Gouwe - Reeuwijk: from 120/130 to 130 km/h
* A15 Meteren - Valburg: from 120/130 to 130 km/h
* A28 Den Dolder - Maarn: from 120/130 to 130 km/h

In most of these cases, the difference between 120 (day) and 130 km/h (night) is eliminated, allowing 130 km/h at all times. 

In case of A7 this creates a long stretch with a 130 km/h speed limit from Sneek to Groningen, except for the Joure roundabout (70 km/h until the replacement interchange is finished in 2017) and at the Drachten cloverleaf (100 km/h). 

A2 Leenderheide - Budel and A15 Tiel-West - Echteld will be raised in 2018 as rehabilitation is planned first. 

According to reports, the other stretches have been raised to 130 km/h this week.


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## Suburbanist

Are there detailed reports on pollution and accidents on these stretches with higher speed limits?


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## ChrisZwolle

Yes, safety, noise and other environmental aspects are mapped for every speed limit raise. The environmental impact is extremely small (in the order of 0.1 - 0.3 dB or < 1 µg/m³). On many stretches air quality has improved despite speed limit raises. 

The calculated impact is mostly a theoretical issue, as the speed of traffic varies and it's mostly a legalization of speeds already driven, so the air quality or noise levels changes are so small they're only theoretical.


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## Attus

ChrisZwolle said:


> Number of closures in 2015:
> * Velsen Tunnel (A22): 8677


Sorry, does it really mean that this tunnel was closed 24 times a day because of overheight trucks? It sounds crazy. Once in every 2 hours in each directions. OK that's an old tunnel and has a lower clearance than the modern ones (according to this sign it must be 4.0m) but even so. 
Or could you interprete what those figures exactly mean?


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## ChrisZwolle

When an overheight truck is detected, it is first warned by signs to take the exit. If the trucker proceeds anyway, traffic is stopped and the barries close. The truck is then taken off the motorway and measured. If it is too high, a € 700 - 900 fine is issued. A typical tunnel closure lasts 10 - 20 minutes. 

The Velsen Tunnel was a problem because it is the oldest motorway tunnel in the Netherlands (1957), with a very small margin compared to newer tunnels. 

The tunnel is currently closed for renovation, it will reopen next month with a better clearance, so the number of closures is expected to go way down. It also won't require any major renovation until 2045.


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## Coccodrillo

What is the maximum allowed height for road vehicles (trucks but also buses) in the Netherlands?


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## ChrisZwolle

4 meters. 

The Velsen Tunnel has a clearance of only slightly more than that. A problem is that detection can go off for various reasons, such as an empty truck with a raised suspension, an uneven truck (slightly tilted trailer) or a tarp on the roof that dangles by the wind. 

Most offenders are foreign truckers. The Tata Steel plant in IJmuiden is served by the Velsen Tunnel, so it handles truck loads from many places in Europe.


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## Suburbanist

The Velsen tunnel also gives access to the largest industrial facility in the Netherlands, the Tata Steel IJmuiden plant.


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## Kanadzie

ChrisZwolle said:


> When an overheight truck is detected, it is first warned by signs to take the exit. If the trucker proceeds anyway, traffic is stopped and the barries close. The truck is then taken off the motorway and measured. If it is too high, a* € 700 - 900 fine* is issued. A typical tunnel closure lasts 10 - 20 minutes. .


That's interesting

For comparison, how fast would one need to drive (say on A2 around Breukelen) to get 900 EUR fine from a flitser?


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## da_scotty

I dont think fines go that high for speed alone. They say roughly 10€/km for speeding. If you drive 90km/h to fast you lose your licence anyway and would more likely get a judicinal punishment.


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## keokiracer

da_scotty said:


> I dont think fines go that high for speed alone. They say roughly 10€/km for speeding. If you drive 90km/h to fast you lose your licence anyway and would more likely get a judicinal punishment.


Anything above 40km/h too fast on the highway goes through court, if you have a bad past then it's not unlikely to get a large fine like this. However if it's your first large fine then it's not gonna be this expensive at all, no.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A22 Velsen Tunnel*

Rijkswaterstaat announced that the Velsen Tunnel will reopen to traffic on 16 January after a 9 month closure.

During the renovation works, they stripped the entire tunnel, applied new pavement, a new ventilation system, new escape routes and - importantly - an increased clearance of 12 centimeters, which is expected to significantly reduce the amount of tunnel closures as discussed in the previous posts.

Although the tunnel will reopen on 16 January, some traffic restrictions remain in place. The final paving outside of the tunnel will have to wait until the spring, so there will be a 90 km/h workzone speed limit until then. The reopening of the tunnel could be postponed if severe winter weather would occur.


----------



## Kanadzie

da_scotty said:


> I dont think fines go that high for speed alone. They say roughly 10€/km for speeding. If you drive 90km/h to fast you lose your licence anyway and would more likely get a judicinal punishment.


Ah yes. So if you drive 190 km/h harmlessly on motorway (as is custom in neighboring countries) you go to jail
But if you drive an oversized truck past barriers and into a tunnel potentially killing people, 900 Euro :nuts:hno: oh well...


----------



## KIWIKAAS

Kanadzie said:


> Ah yes. So if you drive 190 km/h harmlessly on motorway (as is custom in neighboring countries) you go to jail
> But if you drive an oversized truck past barriers and into a tunnel potentially killing people, 900 Euro :nuts:hno: oh well...


No one goes to jail just for speeding.
And 190 km/h is not customary in the neighbouring countries (even in Germany driving at 150 kph will generally put you in the higher speed range).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Driving 190 km/h in the Netherlands is dangerous. Even if you have full control as a driver, other drivers will likely misjudge your speed because traffic generally moves in the 80-130 km/h range.


----------



## keokiracer

I would have no problem driving 190km/h on the nearby A4 during the night. Pretty much deserted anyways. But I wont do it because I like my drivers license too much


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think it's a misconception to think that a high speed is safer at night because there is less traffic. 

It's much more difficult - if not outright impossible - to avoid wildlife or debris on the road with such a speed on an unlit motorway with light traffic. What if someone spun out, hit the crash barrier head on and then stopped on the left lane with both headlights damaged? There is no way you can see that far enough in advance with 190 km/h. The same goes for lost cargo, debris or wildlife. It would be a challenge even with 130 km/h.


----------



## snowdog

Edit: never mind, no point in arguing, let's just say I disagree.


----------



## g.spinoza

snowdog said:


> Even if it isn't, who are you to decide for the safety of someone else?


exactly. That applies to you too.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A22 Velsen Tunnel*

The original 1950s sign for the A22 Velsen Tunnel has been restored and will be put up again.


----------



## Coccodrillo

I see the sign shows "Velse*R* Tunnel", and not "Velse*N*" (like Chris usually calls it). The -r/-er suffix in German (and certainly in Dutch, too) is analogue to the 's in English. But I noticed that in German sometimes tunnels are named that way (Brüttener Tunnel = Brütten's tunnel = tunnel under a village of that name), sometimes not (I read more often Tunnel Rastat than Rastatter Tunnel (Rastatt's tunnel)). I never understood why.



ChrisZwolle said:


> 4 meters.
> 
> The Velsen Tunnel has a clearance of only slightly more than that. A problem is that detection can go off for various reasons, such as an empty truck with a raised suspension, an uneven truck (slightly tilted trailer) or a tarp on the roof that dangles by the wind.
> 
> Most offenders are foreign truckers. The Tata Steel plant in IJmuiden is served by the Velsen Tunnel, so it handles truck loads from many places in Europe.


Somewhere I read there are exceptions for trucks carrying cars, at least in Italy, do you know more about that? (in Switzerland AFAIK there isn't such tolerance)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yep, it's named after the town of Velsen. The _'s_ (Velsen's) is a bit unusual for a tunnel or bridge name in English. (it's Brooklyn Bridge, not Brooklyn's Bridge). 

As for car transports, I don't know. I think they have to abide the same height restrictions as any other truck. I don't think they issue permits over overheight transports, unless it's some kind of escorted special convoy. 

Most bridges and tunnels have a higher clearance than 4 m. 4.2 or 4.3 meters used to be common for tunnels, but they are nowadays designed with 4.7 meters, so they don't require any detection system. 

The Roer Tunnel of A73 at Roermond was also notorious for its frequent closures. It was built with a very small margin so the tunnel closed numerous times per day due to the sensitive detection system. It was actually the reason why they don't build such low tunnels any more. They changed some contracts for tunnels already under construction at that time.


----------



## MrAronymous

The -er suffix would be translated to English by ommiting the suffix. 

Velsertunnel [tunnel of velsen]= Velsen Tunnel
Velsentunnel [tunnel named velsen]= Velsen Tunnel
Velsens Tunnel = Velsen's Tunnel
Tunnel Velsen [a tunnel at velsen]= Velsen Tunnel

Leidseplein = Leiden Square, Haarlemmerplein = Haarlem Square, Brandenburger Tor = Brandenburg Gate


----------



## eindhoven the best

A67 near Leenderheide (Eindhoven). First photo with my new Canon 5D Mark iii :cheers:

A67 Leenderheide by Dennis Klein, on Flickr


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ Nice lapse photo.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice one. You could photograph that blue lit viaduct near High Tech Campus. It looks nice at night.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*fuel taxes 2017*

Fuel taxes (excise duty) go up in 2017 according to the consumer price index.

The tax increases are very small due to the low inflation. Prices will be indexed by a factor of 1.003

Excise duty in 2017:

Euro 95: € 0.77/l (+€ 0.00)
Diesel: € 0.49/l (+€ 0.01)
LPG: € 0.34/l (+€ 0.00)

Excise duty is also taxed with VAT (21%).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A50 Tacitus Bridge*

The renovated span of the Tacitus Bridge across the Waal River near Nijmegen is nearly completed, some minor works are left.


DSC_0016.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0028.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0047.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


----------



## MrAronymous

First time I see those high guard rails.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They are also installed on the span that opened in 2013.

But yes, they are rare. Unlike Germany, there isn't much interest to upgrade crash barriers. Although the Netherlands has long used double-sided crash barriers, which are better than most single-sided crash barriers you see all over Europe. But those higher crash barriers, which can keep a 40 ton truck from crashing over, are rarely installed, although it is recommended for bridges and flyovers where vehicles can potentially crash far down.

Every now and then a debate flares up about the crash barriers in the Netherlands, usually after those rare crossover accidents where a truck ends up on the other side of the motorway. 

The debate is usually killed when an expert comments about how massive concrete earth-filled barriers manage to stop those few trucks crossing over, but also cause more injury with the far more common minor car crashes.


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> The renovated span of the Tacitus Bridge across the Waal River near Nijmegen is nearly completed, some minor works are left.


It took much longer than anticipated but it was the first time ever (I believe) that such a type of renovation was done. It will be a huge improvement for the flow of traffic over the bridges in the A50.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*2016: year in review*

Some highlights of the Dutch road network in 2016;

* 22 January: official start of the Joure motorway interchange (A6/A7) construction
* 4 February: official completion of the A15 expansion project in the Port of Rotterdam
* 15 April: the 9 month renovation of the Velser Tunnel (A22) starts
* 7 May: moving the 8400 ton railroad bridge over A1 at Muiderberg for the motorway expansion project
* 23 May: opening of three lanes on A12 between Ede and Arnhem
* 6 June: construction of the Gaasperdam Tunnel (A9) in Amsterdam starts
* 11 June: partial opening of rerouted A9 around Badhoevedorp
* 30 June: opening of four lanes of N62 between 's-Heerenhoek and Goes
* 22 August: expansion of N50 to a four lane expressway between Ens and Emmeloord is completed
* 22 August: rerouted A1 at Muiden opens, with a future layout of 12 lanes
* 5 September: construction starts on the new N18 between Groenlo and Enschede
* 7 October: opening of four lane N356 between Drachten and Dokkum
* 28 November: opening of twinned N279 between 's-Hertogenbosch and Veghel
* 15-16 December: full opening of the four tube, double-deck King Willem Alexander Tunnel (A2) in Maastricht
* 23 December: new four-lane roads N451 and N457 open around A12-A20 interchange at Gouda

Photo: construction on A1 at Muiderberg. 









Photo: A9 Gaasperdam Tunnel construction in Amsterdam.


----------



## temlin

Today de VID has posted its annual "file top 50 over 2016"










http://vid.nl/Nieuws/article/VID.2017.001.01


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A4 is really a disaster by design. This clearly shows that the 2+1 layout doesn't work. 

Before the 2014 expansion (when it had just 2x2 lanes), the amount of 'kilometer minutes' was almost as much as this.

Also note how the top 4 is radically more congested than the rest of the the top 10 / top 20.

Though overall congestion levels are lower, compare to 2010: http://www.vid.nl/top50.2010.html Back then there were 22 spots with more than 100,000 km-minutes, in 2016 there were only 7.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Aquaduct Drachtsterweg, Leeuwarden*

A late December photo of the under construction 'aquaduct' at the Drachtsterweg in the northern city of Leeuwarden.

The project is way behind schedule. They had problems with the soil conditions, apparently similar to the N302 project in North Holland: same soil problems - same contractor - same legal disputes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Dordrecht police arrested a man for driving 170 km/h in a 50 zone. He was driving on the _Laan der Verenigde Naties_, which is a divided four lane road with frequent traffic lights. Police was unable to revoke his license, because his license was already revoked. He has to appear in court. 

Usually they will also impound the car, but that wasn't mentioned in the press release. Maybe it was not his own car. 

In such cases there is no fixed fine. The fine will be decided by a judge, based on his priors. Cases with speeding of more than 70 km/h over the limit are rare. In this case, it was 120 over the speed limit.


----------



## keokiracer

Though that 50km/h there could (and should...) easily be 70km/h, 170km/h is utterly retarded.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*speed limits*

The motorway speed limits as of 1/1/17. As you can see 130 km/h becomes the norm in much of the north, east and south.


----------



## Slagathor

The dark blue stretches belong in hell. Just pick one and stick with it (and stop fining me).


----------



## LilMocr0

@ChrisZwolle

The section between Vlaardingen and Knooppunt Westerlee on the A20 has been 130 non-variable for a while now.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*LED lighting*

New LED lighting on the A6 offramp at Lelystad.


----------



## Suburbanist

Speaking of Dordrecht, I wonder if are there any plans to improve traffic flow on N3


----------



## Ni3lS

ChrisZwolle said:


> The motorway speed limits as of 1/1/17. As you can see 130 km/h becomes the norm in much of the north, east and south.


Hmm I guess they were a bit slow to remove the variable speed limit signs at Knooppunt Heerenveen :hmm:


----------



## Suburbanist

Why don't they raise A50 limit to 130 between Veghel and Eindhoven?

I still remember when A16 had just a short 120km/h sector after the Moerdijk bridge, and then all these shinny new lanes (in 2010) had a 100km/h permanent limit.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Botlek Bridge*

An interesting 1979 photo of the Botlek Bridge in the Port of Rotterdam. It shows a shared road/rail lane. It was put into operation on 9 July 1967 to handle Sunday traffic to the beaches (2 lanes westbound in the morning and 2 eastbound in the evening). It may have been removed after the motorway tunnel opened in 1980.


----------



## Wilhem275

From 8:20




https://youtu.be/NJjzqNfgecI?t=8m20s

Several drivers happily running through a closed railway crossing, the last one passing 10 seconds before a freight train comes at full speed...

There was a malfunction so the crossing remained closed for at least 5' (possibly more), but is it common to see this behaviour?

It is particularly dangerous because there could be a train overtaking this one, on the track to its left, with zero visibility.
It's also nice to see the sheep effect at one work: one did it, so let's all do it...


----------



## keokiracer

Wilhem275 said:


> There was a malfunction so the crossing remained closed for at least 5' (possibly more)


I doubt it, the train you're watching has passed the point where the gates close and then has to wait for a red signal in the 'remain closed' area for the gates. That might be a bit of bad design though there might be a reason I'm unaware of that that signal has to be precisely there.


----------



## Suburbanist

On the video's comments, the person who posted it (presumably the train driver) said a train in front of it had a defect and was stopped two blocks ahead, which is why he got the red sign.


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## Wilhem275

That's the malfunction I mentioned, I was simplifying for non-rail nerds


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Dutch meteorological organization KNMI issed a 'code orange' for the entire Netherlands. Freezing rain and black ice will lead to difficult and dangerous driving conditions tonight and tomorrow. Snowfall in the west will turn to freezing rain and ice in the east. Some weather experts think it may be upgraded to a 'code red'.

Dutch weather alerts are coded from green to yellow to orange to red. Code red is fairly rare, usually only a few times per year. It's also called a 'weather alarm', though some people think it sounds too alarmist given the fact that code red-like impact is usually confined to a very small area during the summer (giant hail, flash floods, tornadoes, intense lightning). Winter events usually have a more widespread impact (snow & ice).


----------



## Suburbanist

*New car sales at 20-year low in 2016*



> Dutch car buyers are increasingly opting for second-hand cars when they go to replace their vehicles, the national statistics office CBS reported on Thursday.
> 
> Used car sales were five times the number of new car sales in 2016, the Financieele Dagblad said on Friday. The CBS said 383,000 new cars were registered in the Netherlands last year, a 20-year low.
> 
> Second-hand car sales approached two million last year, a 5% increase over 2015. Sales of hybrid cars tumbled 46% to 30,000 as fiscal incentives were withdrawn in January of last year. However new incentives came into effect this month, spurring sales of hybrid cars in the final quarter of 2016.


Read more at http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2017/01/new-car-sales-at-20-year-low-in-2016/


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## ChrisZwolle

And out of those 383,000 new cars, only some 140,000 were sold to consumers. The rest are company cars, business cars, rental cars, fleet cars, etc.


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> And out of those 383,000 new cars, only some 140,000 were sold to consumers. The rest are company cars, business cars, rental cars, fleet cars, etc.


I won't re-hash the argument of the Roadside thread, but I think this explains, a lot, why car dealerships are mostly located outside typical "consumer-oriented shopping locations". They are often small, and placed on land-cheap industrial parks, not on big thoroughfares or at major freeway junctions. And with such low volume of sales, they ought to make most money from servicing cars instead of selling them. And showrooms, at least the ones I noticed, tend to be small.


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## ChrisZwolle

In many commercial areas, car dealerships tend to be grouped together. One criticism is that there are actually far too many official dealerships than needed, given the low sales of new cars. 

My Hyundai dealership has only a small showroom, just about one vehicle per model and a couple parked outside for test drives. But its used car showroom has 40-50 cars and more parked outside.


----------



## Suburbanist

I believe that, with increasing manufacturer warranties for 5 years or more (once something just a few automakers offered), there will be plenty of repair business to be done at dealerships.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

244 crashes have been reported on the motorway system until 10 a.m. this morning. Nearly all are related to ice and snow, the amount of incidents is much higher than a regular Saturday morning.

Police and road authorities are appalled by people not driving to conditions. 'they see a car in the ditch yet blow past at unadapted speed'.

Some people seem to think that having snow tires means they're immune to black ice. 

My city has only some 2-3 cm of snow, but it's the first significant slippery conditions event this winter, and for my city, the first snow cover in two years (last winter did not have any accumulated snow). We're just lucky it's a Saturday and not a workday.


----------



## Suburbanist

A co-worker posted an update on his Facebook, he's broken his ankle on a scooter accident while driving through a bike underpass (where scooters are technically illegal).


----------



## 8166UY

Don't forget that the VAT of 21% is added after that BPM. But it's a political choice to be made, hence the Netherlands put a lot of money in public transport to seduce people to use that instead.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Rebasepoiss said:


> ^^ VAT exists in every other EU country as well so it's not really fair to group it together with an additional car purchase tax.
> 
> An average €4,000 car tax probably equals to about 15-20% of the price of an average car? That's not too bad compared to Denmark, for example, where the car purchase tax is over 100%.


The average tax rate has dropped quite a bit. In 2008, the peak year of car sales and BPM revenue, it was an average of € 7,085 per new car.

But the tax rates vary quite a lot depending on fuel type and CO2 emissions. For example a car with 120 grams/km of CO2 will cost you € 4248 if it is a petrol car, but € 8548 if it is a diesel car. 

The effects;
* few people buy a new car
* few people drive a diesel car (only about 15% of all cars)
* automatic transmission is quite expensive compared to manual transmission (usually at least € 2,000 more expensive, but € 6,000 is not uncommon either).*

But there are a lot of variables. For example, excise duty on diesel fuel is quite low. But few people drive a diesel car due to the high BPM and also due to the high road tax (typically 2.5 - 3 times more than a similar petrol car).

* for example the new Kia Rio with automatic transmission is priced at € 26,235 while the same model with manual transmission cost € 20,235.


----------



## g.spinoza

Car purchase taxes in Italy is as follows:



> Imposta Provinciale di Trascrizione variable (150/200 euro)
> Emolumenti ACI 27,00 euro
> Imposta di bollo per iscrizione al PRA 32,00 euro
> Diritti DT 10,20 euro
> Imposta di bollo per rilascio carta di circolazione 32,00 euro
> Costo delle targhe variable (10/40 euro)


----------



## Sunfuns

ChrisZwolle said:


> * automatic transmission is quite expensive compared to manual transmission (usually at least € 2,000 more expensive, but € 6,000 is not uncommon either).*
> 
> * for example the new Kia Rio with automatic transmission is priced at € 26,235 while the same model with manual transmission cost € 20,235.


What is a rationale for that? Manual transmission is more efficient if you are an outstanding driver, but most people are not so I suspect that on average the opposite is true.


----------



## Ni3lS

Sunfuns said:


> What is a rationale for that? Manual transmission is more efficient if you are an outstanding driver, but most people are not so I suspect that on average the opposite is true.


The opposite is usually true because people are lazy. You really don't have to be an outstanding driver to make a manual transmission worthwhile. Now the more recent automatic gearboxes are tough to beat though, the 9G-TRONIC from Mercedes for example. Driving 200 at 1,800 rpm, pure bliss


----------



## aswnl

Sunfuns said:


> What is a rationale for that? Manual transmission is more efficient if you are an outstanding driver, but most people are not so I suspect that on average the opposite is true.


It's not only about efficiency, it's all about the driving experience.

Manual transmission feels like real driving. Driving an automatic is no fun at all.


----------



## Sunfuns

aswnl said:


> It's not only about efficiency, it's all about the driving experience.
> 
> Manual transmission feels like real driving. Driving an automatic is no fun at all.


I bet people setting prices couldn't care less about this argument :lol:


----------



## aswnl

No, but it can better explain why automatic cars are not that much sold in NL. Even more than the higher price.


----------



## Sunfuns

I believe it's 90% about the price. In US vast majority of cars are automatic and their culture is more car based than the one in Netherlands. Wouldn't be easy to prove it though...


----------



## UnequalSine

aswnl said:


> It's not only about efficiency, it's all about the driving experience.
> 
> Manual transmission feels like real driving. Driving an automatic is no fun at all.


Yeah because shifting a few hundred times during your daily share of traffic is one joyful experience


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ but what is so specific to NL?

In USA automatic takes about 95% of the market and the cost difference of automatic and manual is trivial. And, USA has a relatively vocal number of people who prefer driving manual (enough to push BMW to make a manual M5 )


----------



## Wilhem275

The question is much simpler: automatic transmissions just cost more than the manuals because they're much more complicated devices. A lot more.

They also use(d) to be penalized in terms of efficiency, hence the burden on fuel consumption and CO2 emissions (and so taxes), but this is not true anymore for recent 7-, 8- and 9-speed boxes.


In Europe it's traditional to have manual boxes on cheap cars (because the device is cheaper indeed) and autos on high-end cars, either for reasons of comfort or performance (different kind of A/T).
In the US the A/T is the standard while stick is seen as something for petrolheads, and just a few know how to use it.

Overall I'm more in favour of the American approach, since here every learning driver must fight with the Devil's clutch instead of actually learning how to manage the car on the road; and even once they learn, most people will always make a ghastly use of the thing (which makes the efficiency advantage purely theorical...).
A much higher demand for A/Ts on cheap cars should help reducing the prices.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

^^ I disagree. I think everybody should learn how to use a manual gearbox as long as they are so prevalent in Europe. I mean, you can still get a license by only driving an automatic at least in Estonia but that license isn't then valid for driving manual cars which is perfectly fair by me. 

Although you can get automatic (or dual-clutch) gearboxes for even small cars nowadays, they cost quite a bit more. E.g. for cheaper VW-group brands (Seat, Škoda) the DSG/automatic option is around € 1,500 more expensive so it makes little sense for a sub €20,000 car.


----------



## GROBIN

Let's say it straight: you drive manual, but A/T drives you. :lol:
Personally I hate driving A/T, even new generation A/Ts. I feel like the car is controlling me and not the opposite. In my case if I had an A/T it would be solely a small car for the city (traffic jams are the only place where A/Ts make sense to me). On the opposite, the more the engine is powerful, the more it is fun to have manual transmissions.
But I'm afraid we are "a bit" OT :lol:


----------



## g.spinoza

Just a last question since I've never driven automatic (or better: I have, but the car also had flappy paddle gears).
How do they perform in steep descents, when you want to engage your engine brake? Don't they shift up all the time?


----------



## Wilhem275

Modern ones understand the situation and downshift, but you may still get mixed results compared to manual control. Older units just didn't care.

What they really all lack is automatic downshifting to perform engine braking _instead_ of pedal braking. They all rely on you pushing the brake pedal to understand you want to lose speed, and even in that case they never downshift until you apply throttle again.
This ruins fuel consumption, which gets a big help from engine brake; and even worse you constantly end up at roundabouts at 15 km/h with 5th gear and the engine stalled :bash: and you'd like to accelerate quickly but you have to wait for it to understand, remove 3 gears, resuscitate the engine and here we go... 

Basically, they're becoming a lot smarter and faster but they'll never be able to predict what you're about to need in a few moments, they always rely on explicit inputs (which happen _after _you need a downshift).

This said, I still believe that even a poor A/T will do better than the average folk.


----------



## TrojaA

Wilhem275 said:


> [...] even worse you constantly end up at roundabouts at 15 km/h with 5th gear and the engine stalled :bash: and you'd like to accelerate quickly but you have to wait for it to understand, remove 3 gears, resuscitate the engine and here we go...


This actually doesn't sound like a typical hydraulic automatic transmission, but more like an automated manual gearbox, which is the cheapest option for building some automatic transmission.
Direct-shift gearbox/dual clutch transmission may also suffer from the mentioned problem, but less than such an automated manual one.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Automatic transmission is quite common on cars seen as a 'status symbol' (i.e. higher end German cars). Most regular family cars and smaller do not have automatic transmission in the Netherlands. 

As mentioned, not many consumers buy a new car in the Netherlands, and even fewer buy one with automatic transmission due to the added expense. As a result, they don't make their way down in the used car market, so if you want a smaller used car with automatic transmission, there aren't many options or you would have to import it from another country.


----------



## MichiH

Ni3lS said:


> Now the more recent automatic gearboxes are tough to beat though, the 9G-TRONIC from Mercedes for example. Driving 200 at 1,800 rpm, pure bliss





ChrisZwolle said:


> Automatic transmission is quite common on cars seen as a 'status symbol' (i.e. higher end German cars).


Daimler even builds more automation transmissions (7G-TRONIC + 9G-TRONIC + double clutch transmission) than they sell cars (> 2 million / year)


----------



## Kanadzie

Wilhem275 said:


> Modern ones understand the situation and downshift, but you may still get mixed results compared to manual control. Older units just didn't care.
> 
> What they really all lack is automatic downshifting to perform engine braking _instead_ of pedal braking. *They all rely on you pushing the brake pedal to understand you want to lose speed*, and even in that case they never downshift until you apply throttle again.
> This ruins fuel consumption, which gets a big help from engine brake; and even worse you constantly end up at roundabouts at 15 km/h with 5th gear and the engine stalled :bash: and you'd like to accelerate quickly but you have to wait for it to understand, remove 3 gears, resuscitate the engine and here we go...
> 
> Basically, they're becoming a lot smarter and faster but they'll never be able to predict what you're about to need in a few moments, they always rely on explicit inputs (which happen _after _you need a downshift).
> 
> This said, I still believe that even a poor A/T will do better than the average folk.


But every A/T had a simple function of just manually downshifting for these steep descents... older ones had a setup of "locking out" the higher gear (so instead of using the 3 speeds, would only use 1 and 2 or just 1) and the newer ones allow you to lock a particular speed (like 4th...)


----------



## Wilhem275

Some of those stretches are in fact overlaps of two different motorways, which share a brief common alignment. A sort of complex and extended junction. Nonetheless, it's quite impressive...


----------



## sotonsi

ChrisZwolle said:


> These examples in the Netherlands have mostly between 12 and 16 lanes. A10 is a bit of an outlier, as it isn't as wide (yet).


The UK examples are nowhere near as wide (and all that's proposed for them is hard-shoulder conversion). I'd imagine that if they, and other busy motorways in the UK (additional M25 sections, the M60 north of Manchester, etc) were wider, they'd have more traffic. Certainly, when M25 sections get widened, traffic increases to fill the additional capacity. J17-18 overtook the 8-lane J15-16 when it was 8-laned, and J12-15 overtook J15-16 when it was 10-/12-laned.


Ryme Intrinseca said:


> M25 J14-15 210,848


12 lanes, but mostly as short distance and therefore weaving.


> M25 J13-14 202,609


10 lanes.


> M25 J11-12 197,995


8 lanes.


> M1 J7-8 196,972


8+4 lanes and ought to be two separate counts now, but historical reasons and all that.

The count that ChrisZ gives suggests that Spain and Russia might be the only countries with more stretches with more than 200k.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are a few stretches of A86 around Paris that carry up to 250,000 vehicles per day, I forgot to add that. They are the segments that run concurrent with A3 and A4. A1 on the north side and A6 on the south side of Paris are also briefly somewhere in the 200,000 range. There is no AADT data for the Boulevard Périphérique, but its 8+ lane segments also likely carry in the range of 200,000.


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

As well as M25 J11-12 having a near-200k count in 2015, I see that the eight lane M60 J12-13 managed 195,300AADF in 2014. 200k is presumably possible on 8 lanes but not much more. I'd have thought.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The busiest motorway in the Netherlands outside of the 'Randstad' metropolitan areas is A2 at Eindhoven, it carries 178,000 vehicles per day south of the Batadorp interchange (A2/A58). 

100,000+ volumes outside western Netherlands are mainly bridges and short segments around larger cities. For example all IJssel River Bridges (motorways) carry over 100,000 vehicles per day. Many bridges in the south also carry fairly high volumes, with the A2 & A16 bridges across the Meuse / Waal river system being the busiest and A27 and A50 coming close behind.


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

A few substantial Italian and Spanish C/D lane sections (aside from M-30, which was mentioned above):

E45 Bologna
A90 Rome
E70 Verona

M45 Madrid (South and South East)
M50 Madrid (East, South West, North West)
A3 Madrid (South East)
A2 Alcara de Henares
V-30 Valencia
AP-7 Barcelona

Might be good places to look for high AADTs.


----------



## g.spinoza

Busiest motorway stretch in Italy is a4 Milan/Bergamo: some years ago it carried 176,000 aadt. A90 carries 160,000 aadt


----------



## italystf

g.spinoza said:


> Busiest motorway stretch in Italy is a4 Milan/Bergamo: some years ago it carried 176,000 aadt. A90 carries 160,000 aadt


I expect Milan's tangenziali and, especially, the urban section of A4, being in that range too.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A73, Venlo*

The transportation minister Melanie Schultz has taken the official decision to construct a second lane on the collector of northbound A73 at Venlo. Apart from the Zaarderheiken Motorway Interchange (A67) it also serves two exits of Venlo.

In practice, the second lane will start as an additional auxiliary lane from Exit 14 Maasbree, through Exit 13 Venlo-West and ends at the Zaarderheiken motorway interchange, where there are already two collector lanes. The additional lane is approximately 2.2 kilometers long.

A draft EIA is expected in 2018 and a final EIA in 2019. It is not yet known when construction will start.

The current lane carries up to 2,100 vehicles/hour during the morning rush hour, which backs up onto the main lanes of A73.


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Ontario 401 has a peak AADT of 410,000 in 2013, the most recently available data. It sits above 100,000 AADT for 150km, 200,000 AADT for a stretch of 57km, 300,000 for 33km, and 400,000 for 3km. It really is the king of all highways.

Toronto also has one other highway above 300,000 AADT (427), and 4 others above 200,000 (403, 400, 404, QEW). The 404 is a maximum of 280,000, so it may hit 300,000 in the near future. Similarly, the 410 has a max aadt of around 190,00 and is currently being widened, so it will likely join the 200,000 club soon.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A50, lava storm*

The 'lava storm' in action to remove sheets of ice on the renovated Waal River Bridge at Ewijk. The bridge reopened to traffic on the evening of 24 January after a 3.5 year closure for renovation works. 

The renovation lasted much longer than anticipated. They required more steel to strengthen the deck and the replacement of the cable stays was taken to court due to uncertainties over the feasibility of the replacement works.


----------



## Surel

mapman:cz said:


> As I read earlier, almost all motorways in NL have a porous asphalt (PA) top layer.
> How often (in years) do they have to repave the motorway with PA?
> Is there a way how to prolong a lifetime of PA? (fraction, cleaning etc.)


You can see many potholes appear on the roads right now after two weeks of frost. In other years with mild winters, you don't see that.

I don't know the general statistic on the durability of porous asphalt, but I would not consider it so suitable in harsh environments like in the Czech Republic.

Another point is that the problems are repaired very quickly in the Netherlands.










http://www.rijnmond.nl/nieuws/151110/Meldingen-over-wegdekschade-Zuid-Holland-stromen-binnen
http://nos.nl/artikel/2155141-veel-gaten-in-de-weg-door-vorst-rijkswaterstaat-is-er-druk-mee.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, they aim to have repaired all potholes before 5 a.m. the next day.


----------



## da_scotty

^^
If we Dutch want to make some cash we should offer Belgium the same service for a fee.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That would bankrupt Belgium :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9, Badhoevedorp*

_Rijkswaterstaat_ has announced that westbound A9 at Badhoevedorp will open to traffic on 9/10 April 2017. It is is the new alignment of A9 outside of the town of Badhoevedorp. Eastbound traffic is already using it. Old A9 will be removed afterwards, which may take up to March 2019. The project itself is ahead of schedule.


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ I wish Schiphol had used the opportunity of this project to expand its perimeter!


----------



## sotonsi

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ I wish Schiphol had used the opportunity of this project to expand its perimeter!


It's sprawling enough as it is!


----------



## Rebasepoiss

Schiphol has six runways, Heathrow has two. I think it's fine


----------



## keokiracer

Heathrow will have 3 soon.


----------



## Suburbanist

italystf said:


> Was the IJsselmeer planned to be drained entirely?


I don't think there were plans to drain IJsselmeer entirely, no. In the 1930s they already knew about the need to have space to take river overflows and "store" them in a huge lake in case of combination of storms (or accelerated snow meltdown) and high tides.

The Markermeer, though, was planned to be mostly drained.

From Twitter feed










The causeway to Marken and that stub causeway in the direction of Volendam are part of the initial works.

It would be awesome if they restarted this plan, then Amsterdam metro could grow 1 million extra inhabitants.


----------



## italystf

Suburbanist said:


> It would be awesome if they restarted this plan, then Amsterdam metro could grow 1 million extra inhabitants.


How would be there a further million people willing to relocate there?


----------



## MrAronymous

Markerwaard is a good idea, just not for the expansion of Amsterdam.


----------



## Turf

italystf said:


> Was the IJsselmeer planned to be drained entirely?


Actually NL could have looked quite differently if one of the plans on the bottom of this page had been executed https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuiderzee_Works


----------



## Slagathor

MrAronymous said:


> Markerwaard is a good idea, just not for the expansion of Amsterdam.


Why is the Markerwaard a good idea? We don't need the farmland (we're already the 2nd largest food exporter in the world after the US) and anyway, we're battling rising sea levels as it is. 

Let's try and keep dry what we have first, shall we?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Slagathor said:


> (we're already the 2nd largest food exporter in the world after the US)


Impressive, but the numbers are a bit inflated, a part of it is just through traffic, and 'the largest' is expressed as value, not volume. Which makes it a bit difficult to compare to volume products like corn, grain or sugarcane.


----------



## Suburbanist

Slagathor said:


> Why is the Markerwaard a good idea?


To build a hub, a new city, devoted to technology, a futuristic place full of hyper-modern architecture, innovative transportation systems and new construction techniques deployed on a massive scale seen nowhere else in Europe.


----------



## da_scotty

Have you ever come across the term ghost city? The Netherlands doesn't need a new big large city. Population will decline in the future anyway...


----------



## Suburbanist

da_scotty said:


> Have you ever come across the term ghost city? The Netherlands doesn't need a new big large city. Population will decline in the future anyway...


It needs when housing prices in Amsterdam are 11% up (buy) and 9% up (rental) in 1 year...


----------



## temlin

da_scotty said:


> Have you ever come across the term ghost city? The Netherlands doesn't need a new big large city. *Population will decline in the future anyway*...


In the rural areas yes, in a big circle from Amsterdam - Almere - Arnhem - Eindhoven - Rotterdam - Den Haag not so much.


----------



## Slagathor

Suburbanist said:


> To build a hub, a new city, devoted to technology, a futuristic place full of hyper-modern architecture, innovative transportation systems and new construction techniques deployed on a massive scale seen nowhere else in Europe.


In the high tech industry (and related industries), we're developing Eindhoven and surroundings already. I'd prefer to focus on that. Let's turn Eindhoven into a real city.

It sits above sea level too, which is reassuring if you're building a data center.


----------



## 036Almere

Suburbanist said:


> It needs when housing prices in Amsterdam are 11% up (buy) and 9% up (rental) in 1 year...


It's really not needed because -I really have to say it - Almere still has _plenty _of space to facilitate further development of the region. And we can even put some little islands between Almere and Amsterdam.


----------



## Slagathor

Or create greater density in Amsterdam Noord. Or expand Alkmaar. Or about a dozen other possibilities that _don't_ require expensive land reclamation.


----------



## Suburbanist

Slagathor said:


> Or create greater density in Amsterdam Noord. Or expand Alkmaar. Or about a dozen other possibilities that _don't_ require expensive land reclamation.


That could only work if Amsterdam annexed Waterland and expanded over its borders, a prospect that is extremely unlikely to happen, I recon. I also think Amsterdam should annex Abcoude and Oudekerk a/d Amstel and build over. There are plenty of highways nearby (and train lines etc).


----------



## Slagathor

Suburbanist said:


> That could only work if Amsterdam annexed Waterland and expanded over its borders, a prospect that is extremely unlikely to happen, I recon. I also think Amsterdam should annex Abcoude and Oudekerk a/d Amstel and build over. There are plenty of highways nearby (and train lines etc).


Not sure annexation would be necessary since spatial planning is largely in the mandate of the provincial government and the national government. The Hague and Haarlem could dictate a lot of this without annexations.


----------



## Suburbanist

Alright. I think province listens to local gemeente don't they? Isn't the merger of smaller gemeente in Fryslan in part driven for the desire to prevent provincial authorities from making them essentially huge parks with limited development possibilities?

My point stands: draining part of the Markermeer is less controversial than bulldozing ancient polders full of old farmhouses and cute schaans style barns. This can be financed with real estate potential. Considering the costs of draining and filling maasvlakte twee, an internal polder removed from open oceanic waters is bound to be cheaper.


----------



## Slagathor

Suburbanist said:


> My point stands: draining part of the Markermeer is less controversial than bulldozing ancient polders full of old farmhouses and cute schaans style barns.


Veeery doubtful. I'm certainly not going to be standing next to the guy who announces we're draining the Markermeer for the purpose of building a new Lelystad. Good luck dodging the shoes and rotten tomatoes. 

A proper Amsterdam extension plan looking a decade or 3 into the future that expands the suburbs into surrounding polders without completely demolishing their rural character (while making the existing city much denser), stands a much better chance of success.


----------



## da_scotty

Suburbanist said:


> That could only work if Amsterdam annexed Waterland and expanded over its borders, a prospect that is extremely unlikely to happen, I recon. I also think Amsterdam should annex Abcoude and Oudekerk a/d Amstel and build over. There are plenty of highways nearby (and train lines etc).


Oudekerk/Amstel is a green buffer zone, lovely area let's keep it green. Not going to happen and I believe not possible either. 

Look, we don't need it, we don't need a urban sprawl in the Netherlands, there is space in Almere, around Hoofddorp. etc. etc.

And now, lets talk about highways again.


----------



## MrAronymous

I would love Markerwaard to be developed as a national park, with lots of planted areas and landscape variety. Maybe put a futuristic eco-friendly 0% emission town in there or two.

But yes, roads.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N434 Rijnland Route, Leiden*

South Holland province has awarded the contract for the construction of N434 / Rijnlandroute along the south side of Leiden.

The contract involves the construction of a four lane expressway between A4 and A44. The project is mostly underground, it includes a 2520 meter long bored tunnel. 

The contract has been awarded to a consortium known as 'Comol5', which consists of Mobilis, Croonwolter&dros, VINCI Construction Grands Projets and DEME Infra Marine Contractors. 

Construction is scheduled to begin this year and will be completed by late 2022. A more exact schedule will be released soon.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Rotterdamsebaan, The Hague*

Construction progress at the Rotterdamsebaan project in The Hague. It is an underground extension of A13 into the city, with the new Victory Boogie-Woogie Tunnel.

The tunneling itself has yet to begin, they are currrently constructing the pits for the tunnel boring machine.


Vlechtwerk van vloer by Rotterdamsebaan, on Flickr


Werkterrein met skyline Den Haag op de achtergrond by Rotterdamsebaan, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A22 Velsen Tunnel*

The original opening of the A22 Velsen Tunnel back in 1957. It was the first motorway tunnel in the Netherlands (though not the first major road tunnel, that award goes to the Maas Tunnel in Rotterdam).


----------



## Suburbanist

*The Netherlands most expensive place to run a diesel car*



> Drivers of diesel cars in the Netherlands pay an average of almost €700 a month to keep their cars on the road, the highest figure in Europe, according to the annual survey by company car leasing firm LeasePlan. This is nearly twice the cost of running a diesel car in Hungary and considerably higher than in the UK where diesel drivers are €435 a month out of pocket.
> 
> The survey covered the cost of driving in 24 European countries. The high cost of diesel motoring in the Netherlands is partly due to various car-related taxes, which are the highest in Europe, the survey showed. Dutch tax on petrol-driven cars is the second-highest in Europe after Norway. However, insurance costs are highest in Switzerland, the report said.
> 
> LeasePlan said it is the ownership, not the use of cars, that makes them expensive. Along with garage lobby group Bovag and many other bodies, LeasePlan is urging the government to adopt a kilometer charge on the use of cars. This would shift the burden of taxation to the use of rather than ownership of cars, the company said.


Source


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> Along with garage lobby group Bovag and many other bodies, LeasePlan is urging the government to adopt a kilometer charge on the use of cars. This would shift the burden of taxation to the use of rather than ownership of cars, the company said.


This is misleading. The high burden of taxation on ownership is chiefly when you buy a new car (the BPM tax). However by far most consumers do not purchase a brand new car, but a used car, where the effect of the BPM tax is almost gone.

Last year some 2 million cars were sold in the Netherlands, but only some 140,000 of those are brand new cars sold to consumers. They are making it sound like the average diesel car owner pays € 700 per month, but this is only for the extremely small group of consumers who purchase a brand new diesel car. 

The kilometer charge discussion is pushed by people and groups based on misleading facts that only apply to a very small group.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Utrecht environmental zone*

The Council of State today dismissed appeals against the installation of an environmental zone in the city of Utrecht. 

The judge stated that the municipality can make its own judgement for a 'traffic order' and doesn't need to affirm the absolute necessity of an environmental zone. It is legal even when the environmental gain is minimal. 

This is rather interesting, because it is approved based on the exact same argument that municipalities like Utrecht use _against_ the 130 km/h speed limit on motorways, which they claim is no need for. 

It should be noted that no 130 km/h speed limit has been shot down by a judge, municipalities make wild unfounded claims about excessive impact on air quality and noise, which is obviously not the case if you read any of these 'traffic orders' for 130 km/h, which all state that the impact is so small it's based on decimal figures (for example an air quality impact of 0.4 µg/m³ / 1% or less).

The Utrecht environmental zone is currently only in the inner city, it does not affect any motorways, in fact most of the city is outside of the environmental zone.










The environmental zone applies to diesel cars which were built before 1/1/2001 and truck with a euro emission class III or older. It does not affect that many vehicles (no petrol / LPG cars are impacted, and only diesel cars older than 16 years).


----------



## Wilhem275

The good news is that there is finally some focus on how bad diesel is, and let's hope this will stop the diesel-mania that affected European markets in the past 20 years.

On the other hand, I find it more and more silly to limit only older engines, if the aim is to reduce pollution in a certain area.
It is true that newer engines are several times better in emission terms, but this doesn't take into account how many pollutants are actually emitted. To know that you need at least how much the car is used, its weight and its average consumption.

People who regularly drive a lot tend to substitute their vehicle more often (so it's rare to see a 15-20 y.o. car in everyday heavy use). Older cars are also much ligher and less powerful, and they usually occupy much less space.

I have some data for Turin, whose car fleet can be expected to be on average slightly older than Utrecht's:










Diesel ("Gasolio") up to 1/1/2001 (Euro 0, 1 and 2), they make up for a meager 3,3% of all cars in the city in 2014, now will be even less... and they're probably among the less used ones anyway.

Bottom line: if you're actually worried about pollution, then ban everything, beginning with diesels.

PS: the four rows are Petrol, Diesel, Petrol+LPG, Petrol+CNG


----------



## g.spinoza

Wilhem275 said:


> Bottom line: if you're actually worried about pollution, then ban everything, beginning with diesels.


It's funny that you chose Turin, because for the first time in Italy I think, last weekend they banned all diesel cars up to Euro 4, due to high PM10 concentration... too bad that the vast majority of PM10s is not due to diesel engines...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Diesel engines contribute significantly more to NO2/NOx concentrations than PM10. 

The diesel debate is not as pronounced in the Netherlands because the share of diesel cars is much lower than in other countries in the region. 

In addition, due to the low share of diesel passenger cars, disincentives usually have little effect as semi trucks are responsible for most NOx / PM10 emissions from traffic sources. They are not affected by environmental zones (most companies operate recent model trucks) or lower speed limits.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9, Amsterdam*

Bigtime construction on A9 in Amsterdam. They are constructing a 5-tube tunnel.


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ One of them reversible?


----------



## g.spinoza

ChrisZwolle said:


> Diesel engines contribute significantly more to NO2/NOx concentrations than PM10.
> 
> The diesel debate is not as pronounced in the Netherlands because the share of diesel cars is much lower than in other countries in the region.
> 
> In addition, due to the low share of diesel passenger cars, disincentives usually have little effect as semi trucks are responsible for most NOx / PM10 emissions from traffic sources. They are not affected by environmental zones (most companies operate recent model trucks) or lower speed limits.


I read a study where they say cars contribute (in Italy) up to 4% to PM10s in urban areas. The major contributors, up to 25%, are industrial areas and thermal plants.


----------



## keokiracer

g.spinoza said:


> ^^ One of them reversible?


Yes.








("Wisselstrook" is the reversible tube)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15 Papendrecht - Sliedrecht*

Plans have been announced today to expand A15 to six lanes between Papendrecht and Sliedrecht. This is only a short segment of motorway, but carries 102,000 vehicles per day on just 2x2 lanes and one shoulder lane.

In 1999, _Rijkswaterstaat_ started a pilot project with dynamic lane markings on the eastbound A15, where the shoulder was dynamically opened to traffic. This was turned into a regular shoulder running operation at a later stage. 

Meanwhile, in 2015, plans were announced to extend the shoulder running operations to Sliedrecht-East (eastbound only) and to construct an auxiliary lane westbound between the Sliedrecht-West and Papendrecht exits. 

The current plans announced today appear to be an upgrade, with six lanes and a 4th auxiliary lane westbound. They did not mention 'Sliedrecht-West' precisely, but 'to Sliedrecht' which is a bit ambiguous, will they extend six lanes to Sliedrecht-West or Sliedrecht-East? The announced funding of only € 15 million suggests an expansion of only 2 kilometers to Sliedrecht-West is more likely.

They plan to approve the final project in 2018 and complete the expansion in 2020.










The entire A15 corridor is overloaded between Papendrecht and Gorinchem. At best, the whole motorway should be expanded to six lanes, but this is a nice start, better than just an auxiliary lane.


----------



## g.spinoza

keokiracer said:


> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ("Wisselstrook" is the reversible tube)


Reversible lanes are such a good idea, it's a shame they are rarely used outside certain countries. No reversible lanes that I know of, for instance, in Italy


----------



## temlin

g.spinoza said:


> Reversible lanes are such a good idea, it's a shame they are rarely used outside certain countries. No reversible lanes that I know of, for instance, in Italy


But an reversible lane with only one lane is such an bad idea.


----------



## Ypenhof

ChrisZwolle said:


> Plans have been announced today to expand A15 to six lanes between Papendrecht and Sliedrecht. This is only a short segment of motorway, but carries 102,000 vehicles per day on just 2x2 lanes and one shoulder lane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The entire A15 corridor is overloaded between Papendrecht and Gorinchem. At best, the whole motorway should be expanded to six lanes, but this is a nice start, better than just an auxiliary lane.


Would it be technically possible to re-route the entire A15 from Sliedrecht-West to Gorinchem further north, along the Betuweroute railway line? More space in my opinion.


----------



## Kanadzie

Wilhem275 said:


> Bottom line: if you're actually worried about pollution, then ban everything, beginning with diesels.
> 
> PS: the four rows are Petrol, Diesel, Petrol+LPG, Petrol+CNG


I think a more important issue is... is pollution existing?
Beijing has a huge issue with air quality.
Do any of the European cities with "umweltzonen" have any issue of the sort?
Its crazy...


----------



## Wilhem275

In Northern Italy there's an actual problem, but the place has the climate of a sewer, almost no air change. You can feel that in the cities the air is crap and it's related to car exausts.
The amount of road traffic of the Randstad would probably be unbearable without its windy condition.

I believe environmental zones like in Utrecht are simply greenwashing/propaganda, because the amount of vehicles they limit is simply too small to have any actual effect.
The only effect they'll produce is to create a big problem to those few who own an old car (typically poor people).

Without considering the actual use, a ban based on pollution class is rubbish.

A simple example based on the vehicles used by my family:

- 1993 motorhome, Euro 1 diesel, 1500 km/yr, 8 km/l
- 1997 860 kg city car, Euro 2 petrol, 3000 km/yr, 13 km/l
- 2012 compact, Euro 4 petrol, 15000 km/yr, 15 km/l
- 2015 2-ton SUV, Euro 6 diesel, 60000 km/yr, 9 km/l

The "green car" is polluting more than the other 3 together... but yeah, let's ban the old bangers, the planet will be safe icard:



My opinion is that almost all car traffic (even electric) should be banned from cities for reasons of high noise pollution, which mostly comes from tyres, and is getting worse with recent cars due to weight and wider tyres.
The other reason being the vast amount of space stolen by cars in cities.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ but the city is for people. Who would go in the city if the car was not allowed to take them? I wouldn't.


----------



## Wilhem275

Well, don't :troll:

City is for people, right. No law says they MUST move with cars within the cities.

I don't want to sound like a green maniac (I'm rather a petrolhead...), but there are simply too many cars in cities. And they are mostly driven by people who chose to live in the suburbs or countryside because they liked space and tranquillity and lower land prices... but they also like the convenience of the city, so they just dump their byproducts on those who accepted the compromise of living -more efficiently- inside the city.

The day everyone pays the full price for its own choices, I'll stop bitching about cars in cities ('cause I won't be anymore the one paying for others).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A windstorm affecting the Netherlands this afternoon has claimed its first victim at the Van Brienenoord Bridge (A16) in Rotterdam.










And another one down at N302 Lelystad - Enkhuizen.










edit: N201 at Hoofddorp:









Another one. Notice these are all the same truck types, large but very light volume trucks with single axle trailers.









A9 at Aalsmeer:









A16 Moerdijk Bridge:


----------



## da_scotty

That last one is just plain stupidity... Crossing a major **** with a empty truck in these kind of winds..

Can you get fined for this stupidity?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This is what one overturned truck does in Rotterdam...


----------



## Slagathor

Trucks are bastards, we need more freight trains and river boats so the rest of us can keep on driving.


----------



## Suburbanist

When I look at a map of Rotterdam area... I think of so many new/enlarged bridge and tunnel possibilities.

The access to Krimpen a/d IJssel is atrocious.


----------



## Kanadzie

>


France, eh? Almost made it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15 Ridderkerk - Papendrecht*

A15 is one of the few remaining motorways in the Netherlands with old-school signage and catenary lighting. The signs are illuminated from below, this was standard for overhead signage in the 1970s. Most are now replaced. Catenary lighting is also phased out pretty quickly.


----------



## snowdog

I will miss the yellow/orange suspended lightning, always thought it was cool even at 3y/o I could stare for hours at it .


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N331 Zwartsluis*

Relocating a drawbridge in one weekend


----------



## Des

Those pics of the A15 somehow remind me of the old A2.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Knooppunt Gooimeer*

The new Gooimeer motorway interchange (A6/N702) in Almere.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1/A6 Diemen - Almere*

The final reconstruction works of the A1/A6 expansion will be accelerated. 

Originally, the deadline for the A1/A6 project was 2020. But it will be completed much sooner. The final reconstruction works at the Muiderberg interchange (A1/A6) was planned for November 2017, however it has been moved up to July 2017.

There is still some major work ahead, several bridges need to be built. The whole configuration of the interchange will be modified. Presently, there are three exit lanes on the right to A6. After reconstruction, traffic to A6 will continue on the three left lanes, flipping the present layout. This will likely result in some 'getting used to congestion'.

They also need to construct the reversible lane bridges. The reversible lanes are currently not yet in operation. The original reversible lanes were decommissioned last year when the new alignment of A1 at Muiden opened to traffic with a much greater capacity (2x5 lanes).

The Muiderberg motorway interchange (A1/A6):









In addition, the westbound A1-A9 connection at the Diemen motorway interchange will open to traffic on 13 March. Here, traffic from A1 to A9 will cross the new Muiden Bridge across the Amsterdam-Rhine Canal, so the old Diemen interchange can move into its final reconstruction phase. This means the main traffic flow from A1 to A9 will not use the old two-lane loop, but a much more capacious 4 lane bypass.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A20 roundabout*

Google updated its imagery in a portion in western Netherlands with 23 August 2016 imagery. It includes the ginormous roundabout at the A20 terminus. N213 and N223 connect to A20. It is part of a complex with three such roundabouts.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N31 Harlingen*

New photos of the N31 expansion project in the northern city of Harlingen.


De verdiepte ligging wordt 2 kilometer lang! Dat is hier al goed te zien by N31 Harlingen, on Flickr


Zicht op het spoorviaduct vanuit de richting Leeuwarden by N31 Harlingen, on Flickr

N31 will run under the Van Harinxma Canal via an aquaduct.

De bouwkuip wordt onder water gezet. Het aquaduct gaat dan drijven by N31 Harlingen, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Knooppunt Diemen*

The A1 to A9 bypass at the new Diemen motorway interchange.

Friday morning:









Friday afternoon:









:cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Amsterdam*

Eastbound A9 is closed this weekend to reconstruct the motorway.

There is a two-lane carriageway of A9 that runs straight through the tunnel construction zone. They are behind schedule on the tunnel, and to accelerate the project, the carriageway will become a construction zone. To compensate for the loss of 2 lanes, they will construct an additional lane on the other carriageway of A9. The new lane is constructed during two weekends. A9 will also be closed next weekend for this work.

From 13 March, all traffic will use the regular carriageway - with an additional lane. 

The carriageway on the lower part of the collage will be taken out of traffic from 13 March. You can see construction works on the additional lane on the upper left photo:









Notice the huge amount of cranes:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Amsterdam*

Today's works on A9 in Amsterdam / Diemen.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 De Meern*

The De Meern exit of A12, circa 1939. De Meern is presently a suburban district of Utrecht.










Sign detail. The text above Utrecht (to the right) says: 'only for motor vehicles'.


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## Kanadzie

^^ surprisingly similar in looks today. That bricked exit ramp must have been fun 
https://www.google.jp/maps/@52.0724...vrZjyhNwLv09OuWtWQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1


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## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Utrecht*

^^ Well, it changed quite a bit.  There is presently a 55 meter wide bridge with eight through lanes and 2 exit lanes at this location. 7 lanes pass under A12.

Here's a circa 1939 photo of the A12 bridge across the Vaartse Rijn canal in Utrecht. It's about 800 meters east of the better known Galecopper Bridge. There is presently a 13 lane bridge at this location, with plans to add two more lanes.


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## ChrisZwolle

It's a heritage railway with limited services during the summer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoomtrein_Goes_-_Borsele


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## keokiracer

@bogdymol That's the reason there is a 'kluifrotonde' and not 2 regular roundabouts. 2 regular roundabouts gridlock a lot easier than a kluifrotonde.

And that last scenario can be applied to any railway crossing ever.


----------



## Ni3lS

Just read some environmental organization has been successful in blocking / postponing the widening of the A27 because a family of badgers lives too close to the construction area... Great.


----------



## keokiracer

Ni3lS said:


> Just read some environmental organization has been successful in blocking / postponing the widening of the A27 because a family of badgers lives too close to the construction area... Great.


I don't know where you read that, but scrap it as a source. A 'family' (only one confirmed sighting) of badgers was spotted somewhere near where the widening is planned. Nothing else is known at this point.


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## Slagathor

Ni3lS said:


> Just read some environmental organization has been successful in blocking / postponing the widening of the A27 because a family of badgers lives too close to the construction area... Great.


Stop reading fake news. Here's a better article.

Key points:
1) Rijkswaterstaat prepared for this, they knew there were badgers in the area.
2) It _might_ slow things down _a little_, but it probably won't.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Buitenring Parkstad Limburg*

The 26 kilometer long regional expressway around Heerlen, known as the _Buitenring Parkstad Limburg_ in Dutch, will likely be completed ahead of schedule.

They had to acquire over 1000 parcels of land, from over 300 landowners. They managed to acquire all but one parcel without having to employ eminent domain. This means the project can be completed earlier than expected, how much sooner is yet unclear, they will make up a new schedule before summer. The original completion was planned for 2021.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Muiderberg*

Eastbound A1 is closed this weekend at the Muiderberg motorway interchange (A1/A6), just east of Amsterdam. It's one of many weekend closures to have the motorway expansion project completed even more ahead of schedule.

This weekend they are removing remnants of the old railway bridge over A1. They also build a new ramp from A6 to A1 east. 

Eastbound traffic has to use a significant detour, the posted detour runs via the south side of Utrecht (A2+A12+A27), because it is policy to redirect traffic via alternate motorways, and not other roads because they lack sufficient capacity. The local road to Muiden is also closed to prevent the 100,000 vehicles per day of eastbound traffic from attempting to go through there, which obviously doesn't fit.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They are using the A1 closure between Diemen and Muiderberg to resurface the motorway six lanes wide.


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## ChrisZwolle

The A1 closure leads to significant traffic congestion on A9 and N236. The official detour is all the way around Utrecht, which in particular for Amsterdam - Almere traffic is over an hour longer (which would otherwise just be 15 minutes or so). 

So people are 'smart' and try the provincial road network - to no avail. N236 is completely jammed all day, which gridlocks the local road system around it. The traffic impact is fairly localized though, it's not like the whole regional road network is jammed.

A1 is planned to be closed until Monday morning 5 a.m. However last weekend they finished a day earlier than planned.


----------



## Suburbanist

Amsterdam metro area is an incredibly hard place to get to or away from using secondary roads. I did such attempts years ago, mostly for fun, the quality and capacity of secondary roads is lacking, they could never cope with a fraction of highway flows. The only passable secondary access is westward, because of the port. The secondary road to Utrecht is pretty bad.


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## ChrisZwolle

Most secondary roads (provincial and municipal roads) cannot carry much more than 15,000 vehicles per day, whereas most of the motorways to and from Amsterdam carry very high traffic volumes;

* A1 Amsterdam - Muiderberg: 140,000 - 190,000 vehicles per day
* A2 Amsterdam - Utrecht: 170,000 - 200,000 vehicles per day
* A4 Amsterdam - Burgerveen: 190,000 - 230,000 vehicles per day
* A8 Amsterdam - Zaandam: 130,000 vehicles per day

So you can see it makes sense to detour traffic via alternate motorways, not secondary roads since they will simply come to a complete gridlock (as is evidenced on N236, reportedly people left their cars and walked). 

A4 was built in the 1930s, A1 and A2 were built in the 1950s, so there never was a high-standard road network from Amsterdam because the motorways were built at the onset of the mass motorisation. The Netherlands never developed a decent 'route national' or 'bundesstrasse' equivalent in the western part of the country. These routes between major cities were immediately built as motorways from the 1930s.

There were only 139,000 cars in the Netherlands in 1950 (A4 was open to traffic), it grew to 522,000 by 1960 (A1 and A2 were also open to traffic by that time) and it then escalated significantly to 2.4 million cars by 1970.


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## ChrisZwolle

Demolition works at the Muiderberg motorway interchange (A1/A6) today. They are tearing down one of the old viaducts.

_Rijkswaterstaat_ noted that even on a less busy weekend, eastbound A1 still carries some 6,000 vehicles _per hour_, stressing the need to use alternate motorways, not provincial roads like N236 which normally carries that amount of traffic in a whole day.


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## ChrisZwolle

Two photos of A1 by Dutchroadmovies:


Nieuwe A1 by dutchroadmovies, on Flickr

The new Betlem Bridge, it is the A9 bypass (A1 to A9 across the Amsterdam-Rhine Canal).

Betlembrug by dutchroadmovies, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*A6/A7 Knooppunt Joure*

The new Joure motorway interchange (A6/A7) in Friesland province.


Het hele project op 1 foto by Fotosite Knooppunt Joure, on Flickr

This will be the new location of the interchange with direct connectors.

Ten westen van Joure komt een ongelijkvloerse kruising van en naar Sneek met fly-overs by Fotosite Knooppunt Joure, on Flickr

A new exit to Joure is being constructed near the current roundabout.

Dit jaar nog nemen we afscheid van het Knooppunt bij Joure wat in 1973 is geopend by Fotosite Knooppunt Joure, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

A fire in the Schiphol Tunnel has damaged one of the service tubes, which means all safety equipment is not operational. The tunnel is closed, which causes significant traffic congestion in the region. It could be closed until after the evening rush tomorrow. The tunnel carries almost 180,000 vehicles per day.


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## Suburbanist

Poor N201 :crazy:

It is a good time to remember the importance of A5 as well.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Buitenring Parkstad Limburg*

A helicopter view of the entire 'Buitenring Parkstad Limburg', one of the largest provincial road projects in the Netherlands. The video follows the expressway clockwise on the map below.

210271451


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## Suburbanist

Will this affect somehow the survival of N281 as a controlled-access expressway?


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## pmaciej7

ChrisZwolle said:


> An interesting set of turbo roundabouts at the new A58 exit at Goes (Zeeland province).


New exit is going to look like this:










:nuts:


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## ChrisZwolle

*N34 Exloo*

A new interchange opened to traffic on Monday along N34 at Exloo. It is a diamond interchange that replaced an at-grade intersection. It is part of a programme to replace all remaining intersections with interchanges.

N34 is a two-lane, 100 km/h express road. It connects Emmen with Groningen. There are also plans to expand N34 south of Emmen to 2x2 lanes.

The construction of the new interchange lasted for 10 months.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N31 Harlingen*

They are going to ship the tunnel segment of the new aquaduct of N31 in Harlingen into position tomorrow.

The tunnel segment was built in a temporary dock that will function as the approach to the aquaduct. The tunnel segment will then be floated into the canal. It is one of two common methods to construct an aquaduct (the other uses cofferdams with three phases)


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## ChrisZwolle

We had elections two weeks ago, today was the vote to declare certain things 'controversial', which means the current caretaker government cannot take further decisions on them until the next government is installed.

Several road projects were up to a vote;

* A20 Nieuwerkerk - Gouda widening
* A67/A73 Zaarderheiken interchange upgrade
* A27/A59 Hooipolder interchange upgrade
* A27 Houten - Hooipolder expansion

None of these were declared controversial, which means the current caretaker government can continue them. This is a change from 2012, after the Rutte-I cabinet collapsed a number of important projects and policies were declared controversial, which delayed them.


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## The Polwoman

^^ Especially in the 2nd and 3rd there is not any reason to declare them controversial, not even if the transport minister turns out to be from GroenLinks :lol:

This because these projects seem to be most about safety, somewhat about capacity and not about prestige.


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## TM_Germany

I wouldn't count on that if your GroenLinks is anything like our Bündnis '90/Die Grünen. They have opposed _rail_ and _subway_ projects in Germany because they would create too much space on the roads for cars...


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## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Diemen - Muiderberg*

Some photos of A1 east of Amsterdam during last weekend's closure.

1. After the Diemen motorway interchange, six lanes merge into five through lanes. There is also a collector lane on the right, which is used by trucks (so they don't have to move 4 lanes over). Also, there is a two-lane reversible facility on the left. So there are 7 through lanes during rush hour.









2. bridge demolition.









3. Resurfacing six lanes wide. In the final configuration, the destinations will be swapped (three left lanes to A6, three right lanes to A1), creating an even split of lanes.










A1 is closed again this weekend, for eastbound traffic between the Muiderberg interchange (A6) and Naarden-West. This means that unlike last weekend, Amsterdam - Almere traffic will remain possible. Through traffic is detoured via A6-A27, much shorter than last weekend's Utrecht detour.

During the weekend closure, they will build the new ramp from A6 south to A1 east (Almere to Amersfoort). This is one of the less important movements within the interchange. They are also doing some works at the Naarden-West interchange, the Naarden-West interchange will remained closed until 7 April, whereas the A1 mainline will reopen Monday morning at 5 am. 

Several more ramp and connector closures are planned in April. Another major mainline closure will be 28/4 - 1/5 (A1 Diemen - Muiderberg again). They planned a large number of closures to get the works completed before summer (it was planned for late 2017 originally, the contractual deadline is even 2020).


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## ChrisZwolle

Terrible signage at the Heerlen regional ring road (Buitenring Parkstad Limburg):


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## renroz

Its pretty new as I can see. Still a bit weird.


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## Slagathor

TM_Germany said:


> I wouldn't count on that *if your GroenLinks is anything like our Bündnis '90/Die Grünen*. They have opposed _rail_ and _subway_ projects in Germany because they would create too much space on the roads for cars...


They're not, Holland is a very capitalist country. For example: our health care system is based on private insurance companies (rather than a state system you find elsewhere in Western Europe) and even the Greens don't want to reform it.

On cars, they've been criticized for their plans to make diesel and petrol cars almost prohibitively expensive. But they are huge supporters of electric cars. In their vision of the future: our motorway network will remain as dense as it is, except it will be populated by self-driving e-cars.

In some other countries, the Greens often oppose the car because it's A) polluting and B) a symbol of wealth which is frowned upon. In the Dutch Green party, notion B is almost completely absent.

(I'm basing all of this on the 2 years I spent working for the Green party some 10 years ago btw).


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## ChrisZwolle

*A6 Almere*

Construction started today on the A6 expansion through Almere, from Almere-Havendreef to Almere Buiten-Oost. The first phase is a refurbishment of the existing motorway, they will resurface the motorway and apply new road markings, that way they don't have to do repairs on the motorway during the actual expansion project, when there's less space.

Also in the first phase is the construction of a temporary third lane between Almere-Havendreef and Almere Stad, there is presently a 4 > 2 lane bottleneck. The new lane will be completed on 1 May. 

The overall expansion will widen A6 through Almere from 2x2 to 4x2 lanes, with a local/express configuration. It is planned to be completed by 2022, but if the other SAA expansion projects are an indication, it could be completed earlier, perhaps even by 2020.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Knooppunt Muiderberg*

Some photos of the Muiderberg motorway interchange (A1/A6) which is currently undergoing significant reconstruction as part of the SAA € 5 billion expansion project.

1. The reversible lanes on A1 are closed, but there is expanded capacity on the main lanes compared to before. In the future there will be 2 reversible lanes, so that there are 7 lanes in the peak direction. Also, the six lanes on the right will be flipped in the future (left lanes going to A6, right lanes to A1).

Untitled by Wegenrein, on Flickr

2. A1 towards Amsterdam. They will probably resurface this before the project is completed. The 380 kV power line had to be moved for this project.

Untitled by Wegenrein, on Flickr

3. The Naarden-West exit is still closed until the end of the week. Notice the distance sign is integrated with the overhead sign, they do this when there is insufficient space to install separate distance signs on the side of the road. I think the Netherlands is one of the very few countries that do this.

Untitled by Wegenrein, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Badhoevedorp*

Next Monday morning, 10 April at 5 a.m., westbound A9 around Badhoevedorp opens to traffic. Minister of transportation Melanie Schultz will attend an opening ceremony at 13:45 a.m. This means the new A9 is then open to traffic in both directions.

The old A9 through the town of Badhoevedorp will be decommissioned and demolished. The most complex part of the project was not the new motorway itself, but the reconstruction of the Badhoevedorp cloverleaf, which was the first cloverleaf interchange in the Netherlands when it was first built in the 1960s.


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## g.spinoza

How long did it take?


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## ChrisZwolle

It started 3.5 years ago. (27 November 2013)


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## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Ecoduct Maanschoten*

A render of the Ecoduct Maanschoten across A1 west of Apeldoorn. It will also cross under the parallel railroad. The ecoduct is located at the former 'Jool-Hul' parking area.

They will install 104 beams across A1 during three night closures during the Easter weekend.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Traffic volumes*

The busiest segment of motorway in the Netherlands saw a significant traffic growth in 2016.

A4 at The Hague, between the Prins Clausplein (A12) and Ypenburg (A13) interchanges recorded an annual average daily workday traffic of 263,800. It is the first time a segment of motorway in the Netherlands carries over a quarter million vehicles per day. It is also one of the busiest motorways in Europe.

I will make a more comprehensive list of busiest motorways in a few days, it takes a while to process all the carriageway volumes into an overview. There are almost one thousand segments with traffic volume data. The raw data is provided for each carriageway, so it takes some adding up to make a full list.


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## keokiracer

A little list of annual average daily workday traffic of recently (last 5 years) newly built sections of highway (autosnelweg).

A4 exit Dinteloord - exit Steenbergen: 29.500
A4 exit Steenbergen - exit Tholen: 39.000
A4 Kethelplein interchange (A20) - exit Delft: 72.000 (The famous Midden-Delfland section)
A5 Coenplein interchange (A10) - exit Amsterdam-Westpoort: 50.000 (_Viaduct Basisweg_)
A5 exit Amsterdam-Westpoort - exit IJmuiden: 52.000
A5 exit IJmuiden - Raasdorp interchange (A5) : 54.000
A74 Tiglia interchange (A73) - German border: 29.500


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## Suburbanist

What about A7 through Sneek?


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## keokiracer

That's N7, not A7.

But that carries 26k - 32k as an annual workday average

Here's the link to the interactive map: http://onlineverkeersdata.nl/INWEVA...&parameter[]=&parameter[]=&parameter[]=VTGWR#
You do have to manually add both directions.


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## ChrisZwolle

*busiest motorways in the Netherlands*

The busiest motorway segments in the Netherlands (excluding adjacent segments):

* A4 Prins Clausplein - Ypenburg (The Hague): 263,800
* A15/A16 Ridderkerk-Noord - Ridderkerk-Zuid (Rotterdam): 243,000
* A4 De Hoek - Hoofddorp: 233,700
* A12 Utrecht-Kanaleneiland - Utrecht-Hoograven: 230,400
* A2 Utrecht-Centrum - Oudenrijn: 227,700
* A10 De Nieuwe Meer - Amsterdam-S108: 227,500
* A16 Rotterdam-Centrum - Rotterdam-Feijenoord: 226,600
* A2 Holendrecht - Abcoude: 201,700
* A27 Lunetten - Rijnsweerd (Utrecht): 198,700

There has been strong traffic growth across the board, but in particular the A2 and A12 corridors seen significant growth (5,000 - 10,000 vehicles) compared to 2014.

Thanks to keokiracer for updating most of the traffic count data.


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## keokiracer

No problem, it was a lot of data to plough through though 

In general there was pretty much consistent traffic growth across the country, except for A13 (because new A4 Midden-Delfland :banana: ) where traffic volumes plummeted by roughly 30.000, also A16 near Rotterdam saw stagnation and slight drops due to a lot of through traffic now using A4-A15 instead of A13-A20-A16 to bypass Rotterdam (A4 and A15 around Rotterdam saw increases of 25.000-40.000). Lastly A17 saw traffic volumes drop up to 10.000 due to a shift of traffic to the new A4 near my hometown. This effect was also visible on A29 with a consistent +15.000 on its full length. 
Other than that it was mostly 1-2% yearly increase with A2 and A12 as notable exceptions as you mentioned. Another one that I did not see coming was A73 near Venlo, with traffic increases of >10% now peaking at just over 90.000 vehicles per workday.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A6/A7 Knooppunt Joure*

New aerial photos of the A6/A7 Joure motorway interchange.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A1/A6 Knooppunt Muiderberg*

The Muiderberg motorway interchange of A1/A6 east of Amsterdam will be significantly reconstructed this weekend.

A1 eastbound is entirely shut down from Friday 28 April 21:00 to Monday 1 May 05:00. Traffic from Amsterdam to Amersfoort as well as traffic from Amsterdam to Almere will need to detour all the way around Utrecht. This requires at least an hour of additional driving time, plus more congestion than usual.

During this weekend, the A1 / A6 split will be built in its final configuration. They will flip the exiting directions. Currently, A6 exits to the right while A1 goes ahead. From 1 May, the six-lane carriageway will split into 3 left lanes to A6 and 3 right lanes to A1. 

It is expected that this radical change of driving directions will result in 'getting used to congestion', in particular during the afternoon rush hour next week.


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

Another helpful video here:






It seems they are introducing a new TOTSO (turn off to stay on) as we call it in the UK, i.e. A1 traffic will now have to exit to stay on the A1.

Why is this being done? Notwithstanding the fact that three lanes are provided for both roads, does the A6 draw significantly more traffic?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't think it's a real TOTSO, there is no real 'turning off' it just splits in three lanes each way. It won't be a true trumpet interchange after the works are completed.










Presently A1 and A6 carry around the same amount of traffic east and north of the interchange, just over 100,000 vehicles per day each. However Almere is projected to grow to 300,000 inhabitants as it will provide a large share of new housing in the Amsterdam metropolitan area. However many people will commute to jobs in and around Amsterdam, which is a key reason why they are massively expanding the motorways in the first place. So Amsterdam - Almere traffic will carry the bulk of future traffic growth. They also built this two-lane reversible facility for that reason.


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## Wilhem275

One thing I don't understand of multilane splits like this is how they work for slow vehicles.

Trucks will have to drive on the rightmost lanes, then at a certain point shift 2-3 lanes and get in the middle of the motorway to prepare for turning; which can be a difficult and long manoeuvre if those lanes are packed with cars.

It's a sudden drop in capacity along the main route. How does this work when traffic is strong?


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## ChrisZwolle

That could be a problem indeed, though the amount of truck traffic on A6 is relatively low.

In this case, the sixth lane (on the right) is coming from a rest area on-ramp. There are 5 through lanes on A1. So truck traffic already on A1 has to move over two lanes to get from the 5th to the 3rd lane to get onto A6. 

At the other end of this segment, at the Diemen interchange, they built a bypass for trucks coming from A9 to avoid them getting onto A1 on the 3rd out of 6 lanes (counted from the inside). That way they don't have to move over 3 lanes while merging with A1 traffic.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A6/A7 Knooppunt Joure*

The support column for the flyovers at the new Joure motorway interchange. They will carry traffic to and from A7 Sneek.


Steunpunt in de middenberm van de A6 is gereed. De bekisting van de oplegnok waar straks de liggers op komen is zichtbaar by Fotosite Knooppunt Joure, on Flickr


De laatste werkzaamheden aan het tussensteunpunt van de fly-over by Fotosite Knooppunt Joure, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*A10, Amsterdam*

The Council of State today dismissed most appeals against the reconstruction and tunneling of A10 in Amsterdam.

The plan is to widen A10 to 12 lanes on the south side of Amsterdam, between A2 and A4. It will be put underground in a tunnel at the 'Zuidas' business district. It is one of the most complex and expensive projects ever undertaken in the Netherlands. 

The Council of State basically dismissed all appeals that could jeopardize the project. They only have to clarify three items;

* noise at the Amstel Bridges
* the effect of scrapping the shoulder near a houseboat
* determine if the planned guardrails / crash barriers are sturdy enough to keep trucks within the road near an office building and the aforementioned houseboat.

The minister of transport has to rectify these issues within 16 weeks.

The other 13 appeals were dismissed. Their concerns included air quality, roadway design, water management and the impact on flora and fauna.


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## Ryme Intrinseca

Wilhem275 said:


> One thing I don't understand of multilane splits like this is how they work for slow vehicles.
> 
> Trucks will have to drive on the rightmost lanes, then at a certain point shift 2-3 lanes and get in the middle of the motorway to prepare for turning; which can be a difficult and long manoeuvre if those lanes are packed with cars.
> 
> It's a sudden drop in capacity along the main route. How does this work when traffic is strong?


A fairly common solution in the US to this issue is to provide separate ramps for fast and slow lanes, i.e. one offside entry/exit and one nearside.

There are also two examples in South Africa:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@-33.940935,18.4580121,596m/data=!3m1!1e3
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@-26.2371603,28.1249339,1288m/data=!3m1!1e3

I'm quite surprised they didn't do this at the A1/A6, i.e. keep the original right hand exit alongside the new left hand exit. Perhaps the low truck volumes that Chris mentions explain this.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Buitenring Parkstad Limburg*

Some photos of the _Buitenring Parkstad Limburg_, a 26 kilometer four-lane expressway around the Heerlen conurbation in Southern Netherlands.

The works are in various stages of completion, the northern portion is quite advanced while the eastern portion is still in the earthworks phase. 


DSC_0139.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0125.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0121.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0072.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0063.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0035.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


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## Nikolaj

Ryme Intrinseca said:


> A fairly common solution in the US to this issue is to provide separate ramps for fast and slow lanes, i.e. one offside entry/exit and one nearside.
> 
> There are also two examples in South Africa:
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@-33.940935,18.4580121,596m/data=!3m1!1e3
> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@-26.2371603,28.1249339,1288m/data=!3m1!1e3
> 
> I'm quite surprised they didn't do this at the A1/A6, i.e. keep the original right hand exit alongside the new left hand exit. Perhaps the low truck volumes that Chris mentions explain this.


You also see it at Hattenbacher Dreieck in Hesse (Germany) where - coming from the north - A5 splits from A7 https://www.google.dk/maps/@50.8103099,9.5372142,841m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=da with A7 traffic going to the right and A5 traffic to the left, but with a A5 truck lane to the far right.


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## ErwinFCG

ChrisZwolle said:


> During this weekend, the A1 / A6 split will be built in its final configuration.


This is something you should know considering your username  : will Zwolle be a new destination here on the signs? If I remember correctly currently for A1 the signs indicate Hengelo-Amersfoort-Hilversum. Would Hilversum be replaced by Zwolle, or could that be just something for this animation?


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## ChrisZwolle

Yes, Zwolle is one of the focal points of the motorway network (Dutch: _netwerkdoel_). 


Untitled by Wegenrein, on Flickr


Untitled by Wegenrein, on Flickr


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## renroz

A lot more clearer. Zwolle is a central point. Hengelo/Amersfoort is a lot more vague.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A1/A6 Knooppunt Muiderberg*

Paving works at the Muiderberg interchange today.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A1/A6 Knooppunt Muiderberg*

Signage for the new configuration has gone up!


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## ChrisZwolle

*N62 'Tractaatweg', Zeeland*

Construction begins next month on the expansion of N62 in Zeeland province. They will reconstruct the existing single carriageway road into a four-lane, controlled access, 100 km/h expressway from Terneuzen to the Belgian border. It is planned to be completed by early 2019.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Rotterdamsebaan, The Hague*

A recent aerial photo of the 'Rotterdamsebaan' project in The Hague, featuring the Ypenburg motorway interchange (A4/A13). The 'Rotterdamsebaan' is a four lane road that will be tunneled into The Hague.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Knooppunt Muiderberg*

The finished product.


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## 036Almere

^^
https://www.facebook.com/omroepflevoland/videos/1535891873101727/

A video from the local news station, showing the new situation. Looks good!


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## ChrisZwolle

*A50 Ewijk - Valburg*



ChrisZwolle said:


> It has been reported that eight-lane capacity is now available on A50 for the first time. They finished overnight resurfacing.
> 
> A50 has been expanded from four to eight lanes between the Ewijk interchange (A50/A73) and the Valburg interchange (A50/A15) near Nijmegen. This stretch carries over 100,000 vehicles per day including a fairly high truck share.
> 
> On northbound A50, traffic moves across the 1976 Waal River Bridge, which has been renovated and strengthened. However, traffic is split, 4 lanes split to 2+2 lanes across the bridge. It has been reported there is no signage indicating where the lanes go, apart from a small sign on the road side. This may result in many last-minute moves from people thinking the right lanes become an exit.


I filmed the expanded A50 today:


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## Red85

Wilhem275 said:


> This is the situation I'm trying to fix:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two way road, trees won't allow a proper sidewalk on its sides (only parking spaces), and we're on a budget.
> Traffic won't be heavy but I often see cars passing too close to pedestrians.
> 
> Imagine:
> |Parking|Red strip|Black strip|Red strip|Parking|
> 
> 
> Sort of:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the erftoegangsweg red strips I'd try to fix a defined space for pedestrians so that cars won't get too close to them.
> At least give a visual reference of the space drivers should leave when there's people walking/cycling.
> 
> My hope is that drivers will understand that, with an empty road, they must stick to the black area. I'm worried they won't give a damn and always drive over the whole thing.
> 
> 
> Trying to spread around little bits of the Netherlands...


Does it require a two way direction?


----------



## Wilhem275

Unluckily, yes; although with a greatly reduced amount of traffic thanks to detours in other parts of the grid. It is a fairly common situation in Italy, cities were developed in the '60s with almost no planning for road traffic.

The town's technical staff are in doubt because the Italian traffic code makes no provision for this setup, so they're worried about legal controversies in case of accidents (the narrow lane may lead drivers to believe they're on a one-way road).

I explained that the _fietssuggestiestroken_ are not officially reserved to any category of vehicles, but still...

I guess _erftoegangswegen_ are specifically authorised by the Dutch laws.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

You wouldnt want that setup with that angle parking. You would want to change that to parallel parking to improve safety


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Amsterdam*

Recent aerial photos of the A9 expansion through Amsterdam Southeast. They are constructing the three kilometer long Gaasperdam Tunnel, which has 5 tubes.

1. The Holendrecht interchange (A2/A9)









2. Looking west towards the Holendrecht interchange.









3. Tunnel construction through Amsterdam Southeast.









4. 









5.


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ noise reduction or something is going to go on the top?


----------



## keokiracer

^^ This will be a 3.027 meter long tunnel called the Gaasperdammertunnel.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I found it interesting that there wasn't a whole lot of debate about whether to build this tunnel or not - unlike the Kethel Tunnel of A4 in Schiedam or the Leidsche Rijn Tunnel of A2 in Utrecht. It was presented as part of the large Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere expansion project and the number of appeals was minimal.

The piling phase of the tunnel construction drove people crazy though. It was very loud for quite some time, they even offered residents a hotel room on very bad days and nights.


----------



## MrAronymous

On top will be.. a park. Which as you can tell by the photos posted above is sorely needed here. :|


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They installed new distance signs along A28 near Nunspeet with wrong distances.

After the Nunspeet-East exit, the sign states these distances:









A few kilometers down the road is the Nunspeet-West exit, then the distances are suddenly substantially greater (except for Amersfoort).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Betlem Bridge*

I took some photos of the new Betlem Bridge today. The bridge is part of the A1-A9 connector within the Diemen motorway interchange. It carries traffic from Haarlem to Almere/Amersfoort and vice versa, including two reversible lanes. The bridge opened to traffic in 2016.


Betlembrug-3 by European Roads, on Flickr


Betlembrug-1 by European Roads, on Flickr


Betlembrug-2 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen*

I took some photos of the N35 upgrade project just east of Zwolle. N35 will be upgraded to a 100 km/h, 2x2 expressway. It is a busy two-lane road with 26,000 vehicles per day.

1. First they built a new parallel road for local traffic. It is partially open to traffic.

N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen 21-05-2017-8 by European Roads, on Flickr

2. A new interchange will be constructed at this location for traffic to Wijthmen and Dalfsen.

N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen 21-05-2017-9 by European Roads, on Flickr

3. A panorama from west (left) to east (right).

N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen 21-05-2017-10 by European Roads, on Flickr

4. Looking at the interchange.

N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen 21-05-2017-12 by European Roads, on Flickr

5. Looking west towards Zwolle.

N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen 21-05-2017-13 by European Roads, on Flickr

6. Panorama looking east (left) to west (right).

N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen 21-05-2017-14 by European Roads, on Flickr

7. They built this viewing platform for the public. I really like how they reach out to the public. 

N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen 21-05-2017-15 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## bogdymol

That platform's only purpose is for the public to see the progress of the works? I have never seen that before. Nice tool for the roadgeeks living around Zwolle


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yep, it's actually fairly common with road projects since a few years. That way they also avoid people from trespassing onto dangerous work sites to see what's going on. 

It's probably not that expensive, just some scaffolding they can reuse. When a project cost is € 50+ million, it's just a tiny expense to send a guy and install it. They also built this path to it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 resurfacing*

They are going to rehabilitate the A4 pavement in the direction of Amsterdam during six weekend closures. During these weekend closures, the direction of Amsterdam will be switched over to the other carriageway. That means that the direction of The Hague will be closed, and traffic detoured.

Local traffic will be detoured across A44. However A44 does not have sufficient capacity to absorb all A4 traffic, so they will reroute Amsterdam to The Hague / Rotterdam traffic via A2/A12. They expect delays and additional travel time of up to an hour for southbound traffic. 

They will apply two layers of porous asphalt over a distance of 7 kilometers. They will also renovate bridge joints. The goal is to make the motorway quieter. This is quite an extensive pavement rehabilitation, which is why they can't do that with overnight paving.










The reason why A4 southbound is closed while the works are on the northbound side is that southbound traffic can more easily be detoured via A44. If they close A4 at Leiden, all traffic will attempt to get through Leiden to go to A44, with Leiden traffic already being bad without any disruptions (some claim the highest AADT two-lane road is N206 in Leiden). 

This will also allow Schiphol-bound traffic to get to the airport without any delays. Missing a flight is worse than delays after you've landed. 

The planned weekend closures (all 9 p.m. to 5 a.m.);
* 26-29 May
* 9-12 June
* 16-19 June
* 29 September to 2 October
* 6-9 October
* 13-16 October

They also planned two reserve weekends if the weather is too bad to do the paving works.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Distracted driving is quickly becoming the number one cause of traffic accidents in many countries, including the Netherlands. There is probably a correlation or even causation that the strong decline of traffic fatalities ended at the same time smartphone usage became widespread. 

However it is difficult to effectively enforce cell phone laws. Especially in this day and age when the far majority of traffic fines are issued by automatic systems (speed cameras and section control). 

N36 is a dangerous two-lane road in eastern Netherlands, with traffic volumes that exceed its capacity, the southern half carries 20,000 - 30,000 vehicles per day. Many fatal crashes occur.

The police have been enforcing cell phone usage and other offenses with a spotter and motorcycle officer.


----------



## mappero

ChrisZwolle said:


> This will also allow Schiphol-bound traffic to get to the airport without any delays. Missing a flight is worse than delays after you've landed.
> 
> The planned weekend closures (all 9 p.m. to 5 a.m. .);
> * 26-29 May
> * 9-12 June
> * 16-19 June
> * 29 September to 2 October
> * 6-9 October
> * 13-16 October
> 
> They also planned two reserve weekends if the weather is too bad to do the paving works.


 Why, why???!??? other countries (like Belgium!!) has not have such a smart professionals responsible for traffic in road traffic authorities?? 

BTW, closures time are from Friday 21:00 non-stop to 05:00 on Monday, correct?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's right. They use the whole weekend for non-stop construction works.


----------



## Suburbanist

Reason they trey to close highways as little as possible is because, in most cases, contracts for roadworks contain a financial performance clause that, in practice (the legalese is different), means the contractor must "rent" the highway lanes it wants to close on an hour-basis. The implicit "price" (or reduced contract revenue) is much higher during weekdays and peak times. Therefore, all parts have an incentive to keep capacity reduction at a minimum and do works quickly (even if it involves paying hefty overtime / nighttime wage premia for workers). 

The implicit rationale is that the extra labor costs pale in comparison to widespread weekday congestion and gridlock on local roads, which are not prepared to handle extra traffic at all in the Randstad.

So no financially motivated contractor would postpone opening a repaving project 3 days later just to avoid paying weekend and night extra wages, because keeping a Randstad highway closed like that would be extremely expensive for the contractor.


----------



## mappero

^^ We (here on the forum) know that, the Dutch road authorities too, but why this is not widely spread among other the EU road authorities ???


----------



## Suburbanist

mappero said:


> ^^ We (here on the forum) know that, the Dutch road authorities too, but why this is not widely spread among other the EU road authorities ???


Because most road authorities are not really concerned with long-term working sites, some of them are cozy with construction unions who'd rather have a steady flow of worksites that don't require night/Sunday work, and then they can stick the traffic jams to the public who accept it as the way it must be.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Rijkswaterstaat uses 'Best Value Procurement'. This does not mean the cheapest possible offer, but the best offer that also includes the impact on traffic, duration, social conditions, environment, etc. Though the starting point for such procurements is usually that such works will be done outside office hours anyway. If they have a construction company making an offer to close lanes during the day it will probably be denied. 

It's a whole different thing in Germany, many repairs are actually only during office hours. Especially more urgent repairs are often between 09:00 - 16:00 hrs instead of at night.

What strikes me in Germany is the amount of repaving works that 1) last for 6-7 months per section and 2) strip the motorway down to the sand. You don't see that in the Netherlands. If you have to remove the entire pavement including foundation you're probably too late with the repairs anyway. 

If that is the case, cracks have gone down beyond the wearing course so the foundation has fractured or cannot be repaired effectively. Some motorways in the Netherlands still have the original 1960s and 1970s asphalt, it is just overlaid and strengthened multiple times.


----------



## Attus

A4 in this section has 3+3 lanes + shoulder, hasn't it? 2+2 lanes could be easily arranged in the free carriegeway. I have no exact data but I suppose for weekend traffic 2+2 lane would be dense but OK. So why is it better to force southbound traffic to make a detour instead of make 2+2 lanes in the free carriageway (just like usual in Germany)?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It takes too much time to set up a two-way workzone configuration for weekend construction only. For example in Germany it may take up to several weeks to install a _Baustelle_ (it can be faster, but it's still too much work for a single weekend).


----------



## The Polwoman

ChrisZwolle said:


> The government formation between 4 parties collapsed.
> 
> The conservative Liberals (VVD), Christian Democrats (CDA), more centrist Liberals (D66) and Greens (GL) attempted to form a coalition government, which would have a comfortable majority in parliament.
> 
> However, after 61 days of negotation, they felt that the differences were too big. They say the talks collapsed over migration standpoints, but it is likely more than that, especially the Greens had a radical programme of converting billions of taxes to environmental taxes. Although most parties have some kind of climate agenda, the Greens went much farther in it than other left-wing parties, not to mention right-wing parties which were to form the largest portion of the coalition.
> 
> So it's probably a good thing for consumers and motorists that this government coalition failed. The Greens wanted to significantly increase taxation on motorists, including a kilometer charge for every road and increased taxation on new cars. Not to mention their positions on infrastructure.
> 
> The next step appears to be a coalition with VVD+CDA+D66 and Christian Union, which is a smaller socially liberal christian party. It has 5 out of 150 seats and would result in a 1 seat majority.
> 
> The Netherlands has a long tradition of coalition governments, not once was there a single party in control of parliament. But 4 or even 5 parties would be a first.




5 parties has occured in the past though, Den Uyl is a good example, but he invited two more parties than strictly required when counting from 76 seats.
It was also that cabinet when much regulations were passed and lots of motorways were cancelled.


----------



## Theijs

Suburbanist said:


> Because most road authorities are not really concerned with long-term working sites, some of them are cozy with construction unions who'd rather have a steady flow of worksites that don't require night/Sunday work, and then they can stick the traffic jams to the public who accept it as the way it must be.


In Romania the road authority and different governmental levels do not even (want) to realize that waiting 20 minutes for a double rail road crossing costs money, as labour is cheap in Romania (DN7, northern ring road around Arad, connecting the A1 with Oradea).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> Because most road authorities are not really concerned with long-term working sites, some of them are cozy with construction unions who'd rather have a steady flow of worksites that don't require night/Sunday work, and then they can stick the traffic jams to the public who accept it as the way it must be.


I've read that in Germany rules are much more strict regarding working at nights and during weekends. In the Netherlands being a construction worker in the road sector means that night work and weekend shifts come with the job. 

However it has its effect. Only some 3% of traffic congestion in the Netherlands is due to road works. In Germany it is over 30%, ten times as much. And it may be understated given how many traffic jams are the result of a crash in a construction zone. 

Dutch work zones are usually more comfortable to drive through. Their goal is to keep traffic flowing at 90 km/h, but 100 or even 120 km/h workzones are also used. There are a few exceptions though (for example A6 at Joure had a 'Versetzt fahren' layout recently). 70 km/h is only used for short-term emergency repairs. At 90 km/h they have to use solid barriers and not cones / barrels. 

It helps that Dutch shoulders are pretty wide, so whenever they do require a 4+0 system, it has wider lanes than those 2 m + 60 km/h lanes in Germany. Along A9 through Amsterdam they used six permanent lanes where there used to be four lanes and shoulder lanes (see photos on the previous page). With some projects, expanded capacity becomes available at the start of construction, when they move traffic into a workzone setup with six lanes and remove the shoulder. For example A6 at Almere has more lanes today during construction, than before construction.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1/A6 Amsterdam - Almere*

I filmed A1/A6 from Amsterdam to Almere last weekend. It is more or less completed except for some repaving at the Diemen interchange (ramp closure visible at the start of the video) and the construction and testing of the two reversible lanes. 

At the end of the video you can see the next phase under construction, it has recently started and there is already expanded capacity through the workzone, tapering off from 4 to 3 to 2 lanes while there used to be 2 lanes only.


----------



## MattiG

ChrisZwolle said:


> They are going to rehabilitate the A4 pavement in the direction of Amsterdam during six weekend closures. During these weekend closures, the direction of Amsterdam will be switched over to the other carriageway. That means that the direction of The Hague will be closed, and traffic detoured.
> 
> The planned weekend closures (all 9 p.m. to 5 a.m.);
> * 26-29 May
> * 9-12 June
> * 16-19 June
> * 29 September to 2 October
> * 6-9 October
> * 13-16 October
> 
> They also planned two reserve weekends if the weather is too bad to do the paving works.


Thanks for sharing that information. I had booked a room in hotel close to the A4 during one of those weekends. A good moment to find another hotel to stay.


----------



## Attus

ChrisZwolle said:


> It takes too much time to set up a two-way workzone configuration for weekend construction only. For example in Germany it may take up to several weeks to install a _Baustelle_ (it can be faster, but it's still too much work for a single weekend).


OK, I see, thanks.


----------



## MattiG

ChrisZwolle said:


> Rijkswaterstaat uses 'Best Value Procurement'. This does not mean the cheapest possible offer, but the best offer that also includes the impact on traffic, duration, social conditions, environment, etc. Though the starting point for such procurements is usually that such works will be done outside office hours anyway. If they have a construction company making an offer to close lanes during the day it will probably be denied.
> 
> It's a whole different thing in Germany, many repairs are actually only during office hours. Especially more urgent repairs are often between 09:00 - 16:00 hrs instead of at night.
> 
> What strikes me in Germany is the amount of repaving works that 1) last for 6-7 months per section and 2) strip the motorway down to the sand. You don't see that in the Netherlands. If you have to remove the entire pavement including foundation you're probably too late with the repairs anyway.
> 
> If that is the case, cracks have gone down beyond the wearing course so the foundation has fractured or cannot be repaired effectively. Some motorways in the Netherlands still have the original 1960s and 1970s asphalt, it is just overlaid and strengthened multiple times.


Interesting.

Quite a big fraction of repavement works in then Finnish main roads are using the Remix method: The repavement is done in one pass, and the new surface contains 80% of recycled asphalt and 20% new:






The equipment is kind of a train of 100 meters in length. The front devices heat the old asphalt to 200 degrees centigrade to the depth of 4-5 centimeters. Then the mixer device eats the heated asphalt, and mixes it with the new material. The mixed asphalt mass is put back onto the road, and made even by rollers. The train moves 2.5 to 3.5 kilometers per shift. Thus, in three shifts, up to 10 kilometers of lane may get a new surface, and 100% of the removed old surface is recycled without transporting it anywhere.

A new surface (not recycled) can be remixed twice.

The throughput of the busiest roads (mainly in the Helsinki area as well as the radials from Helsinki) is secured by working in the night time only, or pausing the works during the peak hours (6-9, 15-18, Friday and Sunday afternoons and evenings). The busiest motorway ramps are closed one at a time overnight 22-6 for the works.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

An under construction parking structure at Eindhoven Airport collapsed yesterday. There were no injuries. It was being constructed by BAM, a major and experienced construction company in the Netherlands. The cause is yet unknown.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1/A6 Knooppunt Muiderberg*

Major resurfacing works were done this weekend to apply the final asphalt at the Muiderberg motorway interchange (A1/A6) near Almere. A6 was closed towards Amsterdam, A1 was reduced to single lane traffic.

Starting tomorrow morning, there will be a 4th southbound lane on A6 between the Gooimeer interchange and the Muiderberg interchange, and a 5th southbound lane between the Muiderberg exit and the Muiderberg motorway interchange. The new ramp from A6 Almere to A1 Amersfoort will also open.

This was the last major weekend closure on A1/A6. There will be another weekend closure on the parallel lanes of A2/A9 near the Holendrecht motorway interchange from 9-12 June.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

_Rijkswaterstaat _ published an overview of awarded contracts in 2016.

There were fewer large contracts awarded than in earlier years. There were four larger road project awarded (figures excluding VAT);

* N7 Groningen: € 320.9 million (design & construct)
* N18 Groenlo - Enschede: € 103.6 million (PPP / DBFM)
* A27/A1 Utrecht - Hilversum - Almere: € 134.6 million (PPP / DBFM)
* A6 Almere-Havendreef - Almere Buiten-Oost: € 146.8 million (PPP / DBFM)

DBFM = Design, Build, Finance, Maintain. These contracts tend to attract major contractors only as they will have to come up with the entire funding for the project. These are typically PPP contracts based on availability payments. They often have a foreign company acting as the financial services partner in the consortium (often British or U.S. companies).

Due to the specifics of Dutch road construction, they don't get as many bids as in some other countries, these large DBFM contracts all received 3 bids each. They are complex contracts and bidding on them cost quite a bit of money, so construction companies only make an offer if they can realistically do the job and if it fits their expertise.

Since 2011, contracts over € 200 million have always received 3 or more bids, except for A10 Amsterdam (Zuidasdok tunnel project). There is more competition for the smaller maintenance and winter service contracts under € 20 million, though more than 7 or 8 bids is not common.


----------



## Spookvlieger

ChrisZwolle said:


> An under construction parking structure at Eindhoven Airport collapsed yesterday. There were no injuries. It was being constructed by BAM, a major and experienced construction company in the Netherlands. The cause is yet unknown.


Probably cheap subletted companies using shoddy materials, EE workers with no experience who are getting shitty wages, getting no time to do rhings correctly because of insane schedules ect ect. All in order to get things done fast and cheap. The problem is big in Belgium e.g..


----------



## da_scotty

^^
yeah, you found the problem. Will you give the press-conference tomorow explaining the reslults?


Lets wait for the proper investigation instead of running after wild speculations!


----------



## Suburbanist

joshsam said:


> Probably cheap subletted companies using shoddy materials, EE workers with no experience who are getting shitty wages, getting no time to do rhings correctly because of insane schedules ect ect. All in order to get things done fast and cheap. The problem is big in Belgium e.g..


I am sorry, but this reads as a pointless rant without more information that will come during the investigation.


----------



## ErwinFCG

ChrisZwolle said:


> * N7 Groningen: € 320.9 million (design & construct)
> * N18 Groenlo - Enschede: € 103.6 million (PPP / DBFM)
> * A27/A1 Utrecht - Hilversum - Almere: € 134.6 million (PPP / DBFM)
> * A6 Almere-Havendreef - Almere Buiten-Oost: € 146.8 million (PPP / DBFM)
> 
> They are complex contracts and bidding on them cost quite a bit of money, so construction companies only make an offer if they can realistically do the job and if it fits their expertise.


For the N7 Groningen project, the contract was awarded to a consortium of four relatively small regional construction companies (2 from Groningen, 1 from Friesland and 1 from Overijssel), supported by two large German companies.

The other two consortia that made an offer were one with BAM and VolkerWessels (the #1 and #2 construction companies of the country), and one with Strukton (#6), all of them being companies with multiple billions of revenue per year. The companies in the consortium that won are _much _smaller, with Oosterhof Holman being #49, and the others not in the top 50. Now I wonder: is it common for such large infrastructure contracts to be awarded to a consortium without one of the large companies such as BAM, VolkerWessels, Heijmans, Strukton, Dura Vermeer, or Ballast Nedam?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Usually large projects are awarded to large contractors, but this is also due to the 'finance' aspect of these DBFM contracts. The N7 project is one of the few large contracts in recent years that is not a DBFM, but a simpler _design & construct_ contract. This means they don't have to raise those € 300 million themselves and recover it over time through availability payments, as is the case with PPP projects. 

Think of a PPP / DBFM as a mortgage. The bank pays the entire sum for you to buy the house, and gets paid back over time through monthly installments. It works like that with availability payments as well, the contractor gets paid by the government according to the availability of the infrastructure. Early completion means more money, and less lane closures for maintenance also means more money. However they also have to hand over the infrastructure in good condition at the end of the concession period, which means they can't cut corners on quality.

The pro of this scheme is that the government doesn't have to come up with the € 300 million sum immediately (good for the budget), while the contractor has a steady flow of income for the next 20 or 30 years.


----------



## Turf

So 700m on new contracts. That is a bit low right?


----------



## Suburbanist

Because interest rates are still low, this is a great time for PPPs. They might work well, but they need to be carefully designed, especially in terms of that happens at extreme tails of parameters of the contracts (for instance, if traffic is 3x as much as expected; which happened in some projects in other countries, leading to very high financial expenses for the state). Even more, there needs to be some protection against what happens if traffic doesn't materialize. If it is easy for backers to get out of the project by declaring its Special-Purpose Entity bankrupt, then it can become something lopsided or giving too much leverage to commercially aggressive contractor: win the bid with unrealistic bids, then use the threat of bankruptcy to force favorable renegotiation some 6-8 years ahead.

Several PPP road projects in US, sadly, suffer from that problem, including that bizarre case of a whole road closed to traffic because of bankruptcy in Texas, but I think NL has better governance on these issues because RWS is nowhere as ideologically hijacked as DOTs in US.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Maastricht*

I filmed the new King Willem-Alexander Tunnel in Maastricht last week. The video was filmed 5 days apart, first going on the express lanes through the lower tube and then on the local lanes through the upper tube. You can see the differences between both tubes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A6 Almere*

Resurfacing A6 last weekend near Almere:


----------



## verfmeer

Suburbanist said:


> Because interest rates are still low, this is a great time for PPPs. They might work well, but they need to be carefully designed, especially in terms of that happens at extreme tails of parameters of the contracts (for instance, if traffic is 3x as much as expected; which happened in some projects in other countries, leading to very high financial expenses for the state). Even more, there needs to be some protection against what happens if traffic doesn't materialize. If it is easy for backers to get out of the project by declaring its Special-Purpose Entity bankrupt, then it can become something lopsided or giving too much leverage to commercially aggressive contractor: win the bid with unrealistic bids, then use the threat of bankruptcy to force favorable renegotiation some 6-8 years ahead.
> 
> Several PPP road projects in US, sadly, suffer from that problem, including that bizarre case of a whole road closed to traffic because of bankruptcy in Texas, but I think NL has better governance on these issues because RWS is nowhere as ideologically hijacked as DOTs in US.


I think you're thinking of Shadow Toll, which means that the government pays for every car that uses the road. This isn't the case with the DBFM contracts. The government pays for every day the road is available for traffic, independent of the number of vehicles that actually use the road. This way there are no hidden costs.


----------



## Suburbanist

Shadow tolls and availability payments are species of the genre PPP.

------------------------------------------

I did not know they had built this near Rotterdam


----------



## keokiracer

^^ Sidenote: Very interesting channel, well worth a sub


----------



## CNGL

Suburbanist said:


> Shadow tolls and availability payments are species of the genre PPP.
> 
> ------------------------------------------
> 
> I did not know they had built this near Rotterdam


Yup, in Spijkenisse, though now I cannot find them. I remember one of the bridges had a design in one side and another in the other side.

Edit: found them. Here is the 500 euro note bridge, and further down the road are the 50 and the 10 euro ones. And here is the weird bridge, with the 5 euro note design on the right side and the 20 euro one on the left. Further down is the 200 euro note bridge and further up is the 100 euro one. So all seven designs are present.


----------



## keokiracer

CNGL said:


> Yup, in Spijkenisse, though now I cannot find them.


https://www.google.nl/maps/@51.8490...4!1sXXrlTAhbcFVX9stknIkPsw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Buitenring Parkstad Limburg*

A section of the new Heerlen regional expressway opened to traffic at 4 p.m. today. It runs from Eygelshoven to Gaiazoo.

map:









It's unclear to me if it opened in both directions or southbound only. The other carriageway doesn't look finished on this video printscreen, but it was taken this morning considering the shadows. 

It could also be a temporary opening to accommodate traffic to the Pinkpop Festival which starts today, it's a three-day festival that attracts approximately 70,000 people per day.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Rotterdamsebaan, The Hague*

The rings for the tunnel boring machine pit have been installed at the future Victory Boogie-Woogie Tunnel in The Hague. The boring process will start in early 2018.


----------



## Suburbanist

Will the tunnel be decorated with Mondriaan motifs?


----------



## Wilhem275

At the very least I hope, to compensate the poor thing for such a frivolous name :lol:

Every time Chris writes about it I think he's trying to pull some sort of joke on us :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Unfortunately it is true 

https://www.denhaag.nl/home/bewoners/verkeer-en-vervoer/to/Boortunnel-Rotterdamsebaan.htm

_De Rotterdamsebaan bestaat voor een deel uit een geboorde tunnel. Deze tunnel gaat de Victory Boogie Woogietunnel heten._


----------



## Suburbanist

For those who are missing the reference, Victory Boogie Woogie is one of Piet Mondrian, a famous Dutch painter, masterpieces. It is incomplete though, he died before finishing it, in 1944

from Wikimedia Commons


----------



## keokiracer

Let's hope the tunnel is properly finished though :cheers:


----------



## Slagathor

This year, that style is 100 years old so it's fvcking everywhere right now. I hate it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A50*

A50 near Nijmegen (Valburg - Ewijk) in 2010 and 2017:


IMG_3391 by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0007.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*N279 's-Hertogenbosch - Veghel*

Some photos of the N279 expansion project that was completed late 2016, with the final asphalt applied in early 2017.


DSC_0057.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0062.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0074.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0078.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0094.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


----------



## belerophon

Suburbanist said:


> I am sorry, but this reads as a pointless rant without more information that will come during the investigation.


Well yes. But for me to read: "An major and experienced construction company". Was also something, that caused me to think: So What? They are big and experienced so they never make mistakes?

And the next post about bad paid workers making shitty work was a bit rude yes. But i don't know how things are done in NL, but the big and experienced company showing its name is not the (only) one doing the job. There are a lot of supporters. Sometimes a subcontradtor who does the real work, and maybe subcontractors of subcontractors. 

There was a building of an bridge for a national road with a blog about it next to my place. It was dozens of companies involved in this small project. 

So yes, nothing is clear until everything is clear. But to point out how many people are involved makes clear that something wrong can happen. And that it means more effort to find out.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Unlike some other countries, there are hardly any foreign contractors working on Dutch road projects. For example in Poland there are construction companies from all over Europe, this is not the case in the Netherlands.

With large consortiums for DBFM / PPP projects there are usually foreign participants for the 'finance' part of the contract. But the actual work is done by Dutch contractors, it's rare to have foreign contractors. Besix (Belgium) is doing some road projects. 

That is not to say there is no foreign involvement in the Dutch road construction sector. Many contractors hire skilled labor from the eastern EU. Some components are also built in other countries (in particular steel components which are often built in Belgium). But the leading construction companies are almost always Dutch due to their expertise with Dutch requirements. There is high demand for complex planning to speed up large projects while keeping traffic impact to an absolute minimum. In the Netherlands, only 3% of traffic congestion is due to roadworks. In Nordrhein-Westfalen, with a similar area, population and motorway network size, it is 50%.


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## ChrisZwolle

I am planning to drive N62 tomorrow, from Zelzate to Terneuzen, I've never driven that road before actually.


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## Slagathor

The Dutch part is quite green but the Belgian part is much more industrial (R4), it's quite a big contrast. Are you gonna go further down towards Ghent?


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## Suburbanist

@Chris_Zwolle, have you driven in the Wadden Islands (the ones where you can)? Driving in Terschelling is fun, the ferry fees are not


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## ChrisZwolle

ChrisZwolle said:


> I am planning to drive N62 tomorrow, from Zelzate to Terneuzen, I've never driven that road before actually.


I drove it this morning. There are some earthworks at the N62-N258 intersection near Axel, but there are no works anywhere else along N62 yet. The traffic lights on N62 are poorly timed, I got a red one each time there was just a little gap in through traffic due to 1 vehicle from the cross road. A major route like N62 should get more green time.



Slagathor said:


> The Dutch part is quite green but the Belgian part is much more industrial (R4), it's quite a big contrast. Are you gonna go further down towards Ghent?


In fact I was driving home from Spain. I took R4 from Gent and then N62. The difference is huge indeed. R4 is a four lane divided, but the speed limit is 90 km/h. There is a very large amount of trucks on R4 but not so much on N62.

I also took the Westerschelde Tunnel, it's funny to see all Germans go to the cash lanes at the toll barrier. Somehow they are afraid to use credit cards. I noticed it in France as well (I have a transponder).


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## Suburbanist

Germans are not used to toll plazas, I guess. And they can be a little intimidating if you are unsure whether your card will work, and what to do if it doesn't.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A16 Rotterdam*

The 2nd phase of the tender to build the new A16 motorway around the north side of Rotterdam has commenced. They have eliminated two out of five contestant consortia.

The three remaining consortia for the project;

* De Nieuwe Zestien, _The New Sixteen_ (BAM, Boskalis, VolkerWessel) 
* Connect Rotterdam (Sacyr, Strukton) 
* De Groene Boog, _The Green Arc_ (Besix, Dura Vermeer, Van Oord, John Laing, Rebel, TBI)

These are all reputable construction companies. They all have a Dutch component, '_De Nieuwe Zestien_' is all-Dutch, the '_Connect Rotterdam_' includes Sacyr, a major Spanish construction company and '_De Groene Boog_' includes Besix, which is a leading Belgian construction company. John Laing is a British PPP developer. Rebel and TBI are Dutch developers, TBI subsidiary Mobilis is a quite well-known constructor.

They plan to award the DBFM contract in May 2018, construction should commence in early 2019.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Limburg*

The planning process for the expansion of A2 in central Limburg is currently ongoing, they plan to publish the draft environmental impact assessment in late 2017.

It concerns a 19 kilometer segment of A2 between Het Vonderen (A73) and Kerensheide (A76). It is currently a four lane motorway with shoulder lanes. Traffic volumes are fairly high, between 100,000 and 112,000 vehicles per day. Despite the south of Limburg being characterised as a 'declining region', traffic volumes have actually seen strong growth over the past 10 years, adding almost 30,000 vehicles per day since 2006.

They plan to expand A2 to a proper six lane motorway with shoulders. As this motorway was built in the early 1960s, the will also address some obsolete design standards. They will widen A2 'asymetrically' which means some of the axis of the motorway will be moved, instead of a simple outward expansion. This also allows a continuous six lane availability during construction. 

The corridor design. 

* Purple: outward widening
* Blue: east side expansion
* Pink: west side expansion


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N34 Drenthe*

Drenthe Province has announced plans to build passing lanes on N34 between Emmen and Zuidlaren. There will be four locations where N34 will be expanded to 2x2 lanes, each is 3 kilometers long. 

Presently N34 is a two-lane 100 km/h express road. The largest component is the construction of a four lane viaduct over the Gieten roundabout (N33/N34), a long-standing wish. The project cost for all 4 expansions combined is € 90 million.

Traffic volumes on N34 fluctuate between 13,000 and 22,000 vehicles per day on the two-lane segments. It is the backbone of Eastern Drenthe. The long-standing wish to expand the entire road to a four lane expressway cannot be funded at this moment, Drenthe also says it will have too much impact on the landscape. 

These segments will be four laned:


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## ChrisZwolle

MichiH said:


> *N23:* What does "new expressway, mostly with four lanes" mean? Is it relevant for my expressway u/c list?


Yes I think so. The 'N23' (it will likely not be signed as such) is currently being expanded to a four lane expressway between Hoorn and Hoogkarspel. The four lane segment is 14 kilometers long. East of Hoogkarspel there will be two lanes to Enkhuizen.



MichiH said:


> *N35:* Is the expressway section already u/c? What's the exact lengths?


Yes it is under construction, I posted some photos recently. It will be 4 kilometers long. It is a bypass of Wijthmen, the four lane segment runs from Oldeneelallee in Zwolle to Koelmansstraat near Hoonhorst. There will be only one interchange along this stretch, however. 



MichiH said:


> *N434:* Has the exact schedule been published?


They plan to hold a public meeting on 28/29 June, they will probably reveal a schedule for the project.


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## Theijs

ChrisZwolle said:


> The 2nd phase of the tender to build the new A16 motorway around the north side of Rotterdam has commenced.


Any drawing available of this section of A16?


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## keokiracer

^^ http://www.platformparticipatie.nl/Images/Deel II Plankaarten TB_tcm318-377677.pdf (PDF alert)


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## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Apeldoorn - Hengelo*

The draft environmental impact assessment for the expansion of A1 in Eastern Netherlands has been signed by transportation minister Schultz. It will be published on June 30th.

A 50 kilometer stretch of A1 will be widened by one lane in each direction;

* Beekbergen interchange (A50) to Deventer-Oost: 2x4 lanes
* Deventer-Oost to Azelo interchange (A35): 2x3 lanes

Due to funding constraints, it will be done in two phases, tackling the most urgent stretches first.

* 2018-2020: Twello - Deventer 2x4
* 2018-2020: Deventer-Oost - Rijssen 2x3
* 2024-2028: Apeldoorn - Twello 2x4
* 2024-2028: Deventer - Deventer-Oost 2x4
* 2024-2028: Rijssen - Azelo 2x3

It is a € 400 million project. The highest cost is for the Beekbergen - Deventer-Oost segment, which needs to be expanded outward as the median was already consumed by left shoulder lanes in 2006. The IJssel River Bridge will not be replaced however, similar to the almost identical IJssel Bridge at Zwolle, there will be 2x4 lanes and no shoulders. Both bridges were built from the late 1960s and opened to traffic in 1970 (A28) and 1972 (A1).

The eastern and longest segment from Deventer-Oost to the Azelo interchange is a cheap expansion as there already is a wide median available and overpasses and bridge have sufficient space for six-laning. It's unclear to me why they project 4 years for this segment, I think it will be completed in 1.5 years unless they use extensive phasing, but that's not very common for a single project in the Netherlands.

Old Google Maps showing the expansion project:


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## Suburbanist

I thought signing off on big projects was not allowed until a new coalition is formed.


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## ChrisZwolle

It was not declared controversial. Also, it is not a final environmental impact assessment / plan approval, but a draft version.

But in my opinion a draft version can arguably considered to be the most important step. Although it does not authorize the project, it does include the detailed and final design, the final EIA is normally only a small update of the draft version. Furthermore, appeals against the final EIA can only proceed if the appealer also commented on the draft EIA.

The draft EIA is also used to check if there are any problems which may lead to a dismissal of the final EIA by the Council of State. In the past 10 years basically no final EIAs were dismissed by the Council of State, only minor things had to be repaired within x weeks.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Noorderbrug, Maastricht*

The _Noorderbrug_ or Northern Bridge across the Meuse River in Maastricht is being reconstructed. Although the main span remains unchanged (maintenance only), the west approach of the bridge will be relocated as part of a redevelopment of the road system in this part of Maastricht.

They built a new approach ramp on site and will then slide it in. This way they don't have to shut down the bridge for a prolonged period of time.


LuFo-Belvedere19juni17-043 by Belvedere Maastricht, on Flickr


LuFo-Belvedere19juni17-006 by Belvedere Maastricht, on Flickr


LuFo-Belvedere19juni17-001 by Belvedere Maastricht, on Flickr


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## Slagathor

Suburbanist said:


> I thought signing off on big projects was not allowed until a new coalition is formed.


In principle, but the wording is very vague. If you're up for a small political science lesson, keep reading (if not, then don't ):

In principle, outgoing cabinets are not allowed to handle "controversial issues" because during this time, _parliament no longer possesses its ultimate power of firing the government_ (elections have, after all, already taken place and the government is already on its way out).

But what does and does not constitute a "controversial issue" is determined by parliament itself. 

And the ultimate authority in our system always resides with parliament anyway. So if a majority of parliament orders the government to carry out X, then the government has to do it. Even if it's outgoing.


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## Suburbanist

I thought certain types of projects of programs or executive actions were deemed controversial from the onset, before elections, such that the "controversial nature" of certain things pre-agreed upon before elections couldn't be changed afterward.


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## Slagathor

Parliament can always change its mind, this stuff is mostly unwritten.

If you examine past outgoing governments, there's always a clear pattern that fewer and fewer things become "controversial" the longer negotiations for a new coalition go on. Because the country has to be governed.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A58*

In Western Brabant, the A58 motorway makes a slight detour to the north, running through Bergen op Zoom, Roosendaal and Etten-Leur.

However in the past there were plans to build a southern alignment, indicated as the 'Kempener Randweg' on this map. What eventually became A58 was an upgrade of the old road, indicated as 'rw 256' on the map.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N18*

N18 is being upgraded to a two / four lane expressway from Varsseveld to Enschede. The Haaksbergen - Enschede segment will be a four lane expressway.

They are constructing an underpass under the railroad. However they found inferior construction quality at the foundation of this railroad viaduct, they will rebuild this. 

This problem will not delay the project however, in fact the opening date of the new N18 has been moved up from late 2018 to early 2018! :cheers:


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## snowdog

I disagree, the roads are more than safe enough...

Where do you draw the line? You could argue that imposing a nationwide 30 km/h speed limit everywhere will result in less deaths... It goes at the cost of speed though.


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## Kanadzie

^^ but if the design "catches" dumb drivers, you get a lot of crashes and generally poor efficiency, since they drive really slow looking around, or, they crash and then the whole thing is jammed up for hours, your overall speed goes down...


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## snowdog

Honestly, it's not so hard to look ahead and following the markings and/or signs on the road.

I'd love them to make more ''odd'' or new types of infrastructure, post a few coppers there, and take away licences from people who cannot look ahead or have their head up their ***. Far to many idiots on the road these days. I'm not talking about people who might make a mistake sometime, but there are so many people who can only drive in known environments or have odd phobia's of places like the motorway, such people should have their license put in a blender...


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## sotonsi

snowdog said:


> You could argue that imposing a nationwide 30 km/h speed limit everywhere will result in less deaths...


You'd be wrong though as thousands of drivers will go on a big wide autosnelweg, try driving at 30km/h and fall asleep and crash.


Kanadzie said:


> ^^ but if the design "catches" dumb drivers, you get a lot of crashes and generally poor efficiency, since they drive really slow looking around, or, they crash and then the whole thing is jammed up for hours, your overall speed goes down...


Drivers being a little bit bemused and confused means they will be more cautious and while it may take longer, and be a little less efficient than theoretical, it will be much safer.

The UK has mostly stagnated in reducing serious crashes these past 15 years, especially compared to elsewhere in Europe. A lot of schemes that treat drivers as idiots whose judgement can't be trusted (eg lowering speed limits in residential areas from 50km/h to 30km/h) have failed to achieve reductions. Where there has been progress is schemes that make it harder for the driver to negotiate junctions without applying judgement - reducing visibility, etc.

Obviously there's confusing-so-more-cautious and there's confusing-so-more-craziness and you want the former, rather than the latter. I think DDIs fit into the former - its channelised and should be well signed. Of course if it's poorly signed, and the channels don't work it goes into the latter: last minute lane changes, wrong way driving and all that.


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## keokiracer

sotonsi said:


> You'd be wrong though as thousands of drivers will go on a big wide autosnelweg, try driving at 30km/h and fall asleep and crash.


Loads of people would probably crash, but at such low speeds the fatality rate would be fairly close to zero.


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## Kanadzie

^^ no because there will be a German LKW running 90 km/h on tempomat taking a nap


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## ChrisZwolle

*A6/A7 Knooppunt Joure*

The beams for the new flyovers at the Joure motorway interchange will be installed from 10 - 22 July. Some beams are over 50 meters long. They built a viewing point for the public. The works start each night at 9 p.m.


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## julesstoop

snowdog said:


> I disagree, the roads are more than safe enough...
> 
> Where do you draw the line? You could argue that imposing a nationwide 30 km/h speed limit everywhere will result in less deaths... It goes at the cost of speed though.


I wasn't alluding at downgrading existing infrastructure or replacing it with slower roads. 

I just meant that when a road, connection or interchange is upgraded, safety concerns may trump raw throughput. 

In the end safety is also part of the efficiency equation: when a road needs to be closed down more often because of accidents, the safer but slower design may in the end still be more efficient.


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## da_scotty

^^
Jules dont try it with this guy, his blood has been replaced by asfalt and gasoline, on every thread on this forum regarding mobility he proposes high-speed-car-mobility regardless of everything else.


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## renroz

ChrisZwolle said:


> The beams for the new flyovers at the Joure motorway interchange will be installed from 10 - 22 July. Some beams are over 50 meters long. They built a viewing point for the public. The works start each night at 9 p.m.


Yes! At least!


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## ChrisZwolle

*section control*

The Public Prosecution Service (_Openbaar Ministerie_ in Dutch) plans to introduce 11 section control speed enforcement on provincial roads. Section control means the average speed will be checked over a longer segment.

Locations: 









_tussen_ means 'between'.

N230 and N381 are four lane expressways. The others are two-lane roads. It will also be reintroduced at the N256 Zeeland Bridge. The old N381 used to have a section control in that area, but N381 has been replaced by a new four lane expressway that will also get section control according to this report.

They expect the systems to become operational by 2019.


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## Turf

Just wondering, why is the N381 Emmen Drachten not called N31? Apears to be one route if you look on the map between Harlingen and Emmen.


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## ChrisZwolle

N31 or _rijksweg 31_ has never extended east of Drachten, though the numbering, fairly decent standard of the road and route of N381 suggests so.

As you may be aware, 1/2-digit numbers are reserved for national roads (_rijkswegen_) while 3-digit numbers are reserved for provincial roads. There are a few exceptions where a _rijksweg_ has been transferred to the province but not been renumbered, unlike the 1993 declassification of _rijkswegen_. A large amount of national roads were transferred to the provinces in 1993, and as a result, they were renumbered as well.


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## aswnl

N381 Drachten - Emmen has been numbered N31 in the past.


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## ChrisZwolle

It wasn't adopted in any of the national road plans.


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## aswnl

But is surely has been signed as N31


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## ChrisZwolle

The ministry of transportation published an overview of high-profile projects and their plan approval status.

* A7/A8 Corridor Amsterdam - Hoorn: preferred alternative selection in 2018
* A67 Eindhoven - Venlo: preferred alternative selection in Q4 2018
* A10 Amsterdam south side tunnel and expansion: plan approved Q1 2016. No delays
* A9 Amstelveen 2x4 lane expansion: plan approved Q1 2017 (ahead of schedule)
* A10 Amsterdam (A2 & A4 interchanges): combined with the tunnel project. No delays
* A27/A12 Ring Utrecht expansion: plan approved Q2 2017, no delays*
* A28/A1 Hoevelaken interchange and expansion: Draft plan approval Q4 2018, no delays*
* A6 Almere - Lelystad 2x3 lane expansion: draft plan approval 2019 (new project)
* A16 Rotterdam extension: pushed back to 2019-2022/2024 to avoid simultaneous tender with A24 Blankenburg Tunnel
* A24 Blankenburg Tunnel: 2017-2022/2024, no delays*
* A15 Papendrecht - Sliedrecht-Oost: draft plan approval Q4 2017. Delayed almost one year due to changed scope of project
* A27 Houten - Hooipolder expansion and bridge replacement: plan approval Q4 2017. Possible delay due to bridge design changes.
* A2 Het Vonderen - Kerensheide 2x3 lane expansion: draft plan approval Q3 2017, delayed plan approval but unchanged construction timelime
* A58 North Brabant expansion study: draft plan approval 2017
* A1 Apeldoorn - Azelo 2x3 / 2x4 lane expansion: draft plan approval Q2 2017, no delays
* A12/A15 Ressen - Oudbroeken extension: plan approval Q1 2017, no delays
* N35 Nijverdal - Wierden 2x2 lane expansion: draft plan approval Q1 2018, slight delay, no construction timeline changes yet
* N33 Zuidbroek - Appingedam 2x2 lane expansion: draft plan approval Q2 2018, 1 year delay due to European tender changes

* The media reported that several high-profile projects may get delayed by over a year due to appeals and the Council of State asking prejudicial questions to the European Court of Justice regarding nitrogen dioxide legislation. It is unclear if the new nitrogen dioxide legislation is compatible with European law.

The projects mentioned are A1/A28 Hoevelaken interchange and expansion, A12/A27 Ring Utrecht expansion and A24 Blankenburg Tunnel in Rotterdam. The report notes no delay for these projects. It is unclear what would happen in the next two years.


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## 8166UY

Strange that there is still so little effort to alleviate the problems around Rotterdam, while it really is the eyesore of the country currently when you look at traffic jams.


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## Suburbanist

edit wrong size


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## ChrisZwolle

Well, there are three major greenfield motorway projects around Rotterdam;

* A4 Delft - Schiedam (completed)
* A16 Rotterdam north side extension (plan approved)
* A24 Blankenburg Tunnel (plan approved)

Evidently they don't want to tender two € 1 billion contracts for A16 and A24 at the same time, probably by request of the construction sector. These large tenders have a high bidding cost for construction companies, that's why they generally get only 3 offers or so. Only a few construction companies in the Netherlands are capable of handling and financing such a big project. Both are DBFM (Design, Build, Finance, Maintain) contracts. These are PPP projects with so-called 'availability payments'.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Abcoude*

A photo of the 7 lane section of A2 between the Holendrecht interchange (A9) and Abcoude. It's very short, but it's the first 7 lane section in the Netherlands that is not marked as auxiliary / exit lanes. I think it also could be the first 7 lane section overall.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A1/A50 Knooppunt Beekbergen*

The new flyover at the Beekbergen motorway interchange (A1/A50) opened to traffic early this morning.

It used to be a standard cloverleaf with collector lanes. The new layout:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A6/A7 Knooppunt Joure*

New photos of the Joure motorway interchange (A6/A7) project.

Interesting to see these flyovers rise across the flat landscape.

DSC_0026.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0042.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0050.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Amsterdam*

Not often do you see a 5 tube tunnel under construction!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A24 Blankenburg Tunnel, Rotterdam*

_Rijkswaterstaat_ has conditionally awarded a large € 1 billion DBFM contract to build the A24 Blankenburg Tunnel in Rotterdam. If no complaints are lodged, Rijkswaterstaat will award the project to a consortium made up of Ballast Nedam (Netherlands), DEME (Belgium) and Macquarie (Australia).

It is a 20 year concession to build, finance and operate the tunnel and A24 motorway. The project includes the construction of a six lane tunnel, the westernmost crossing in Rotterdam, the A24 motorway and the expansion of A15 and A20 motorways leading up to the tunnel.


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## Wilhem275

Would it make any sense to extend A24 all the way through A4 and then to the A13-A16 link?
To create a sort of northern ring of Rotterdam (since A20 is clearly no more a ring road).


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## ChrisZwolle

Don't say that out loud!....


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## Slagathor

That would make sense. So would continuing the A4 past Hoogvliet and Oud-Beijerland on that map above.

But sense is irrelevant.


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## Suburbanist

They should also extend A15 to Monster. That area is full of greenhouses. thus plenty of truck/van traffic. Yet, roads are bad, slow and busy. 

-----------

Speaking of vans, the number of cargo vans in the Netherlands reached an all-time high of 800.000, including small cargo vehicles used on construction industry that are not technically trucks. Boomning online shopping for ever increasing range of products has induced a lot of growth of the super-express parcel industry (same-day delivery or "buy-before-midnight-next-afternoon-at-your-house"). While truck traffic is severely regulated, vans get much more leeway and are mostly treated as passenger cars, and there have been complaints about things like vans blocking narrow streets for up to half-hour while a single delivery man goes through the block, cargo vans blocking bike traffic, parking on cycle tracks, blocking sidewalk cuts (useful not only for wheelchairs but also baby pushchairs, people with crutches etc).

Vans are driven much more inside cities in terms of hours of active use per day than private cars. If the trend continues, I see a strong case for making cargo vans fleet fully electric by 2025. 

I myself am a contributor to the trend, I ordered 48 online packages so far this year with 3 on the way, I just don't bother going to the store buy new shampoo and toothpaste if I can get them online delivered without a charge if I spend more than € 10 (as some stores now offer). I'm not a big spender, my median ticket is around € 50 or so, I just buy everything but fresh food groceries online now.

From CBS


> Nederlandse bestelauto’s vervoerden in 2016 ruim 64 miljoen ton goederen. Dit was ongeveer 10 procent van het totaal vervoerde gewicht over de weg door Nederlandse voertuigen. Vooral bouw- en servicebedrijven maken gebruik van bestelauto’s. Dit meldt het CBS op basis van cijfers samengesteld in opdracht van het Kennisinstituut voor Mobiliteitsbeleid.
> In 2016 waren er ongeveer 800 duizend bestelauto’s en -busjes die zakelijk werden gebruikt. Servicebedrijven vervoerden 34 miljoen ton goederen met bestelauto’s (exclusief gereedschap), bouwbedrijven 22 miljoen ton en goederen, post- en pakketbedrijven 8 miljoen ton.
> 
> Nederlandse bestelauto’s reden vorig jaar 15,8 miljard kilometers om al deze goederen op de plaats van bestemming te krijgen. Dat is gemiddeld 43 miljoen kilometer per dag. Bestelauto’s reden hiermee bijna zeven keer zo weinig kilometers als personenauto’s, maar bijna driemaal zoveel als vrachtauto’s.
> 
> De meeste kilometers werden gereden door bestelauto’s van bouw- en servicebedrijven. Zij waren goed voor driekwart van alle afgelegde kilometers. Bestelauto’s in het goederen- en postvervoer legden de overige 25 procent van alle gereden kilometers af. Hun aandeel in het vervoerde gewicht bedroeg slechts 13 procent. In het goederen- en postvervoer worden veelal lichte artikelen, zoals levensmiddelen, bloemen, postpakketjes en post vervoerd.


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## ChrisZwolle

Maybe we need more bakfiets


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## Suburbanist

Bakfiets with electric motors actually work quite well for certain deliveries. The problem with online shopping and parcel delivery, logistically, is that packaging is often enormous for their weight. That is not a problem if the contents are expensive cell phones or laptops, but when a € 20 order weighing just 1kg comes on standard 20x30x10 packages, bikes cannot deal with the volume even if they could deal perfectly with the weight. Unless they used much more delivery persons, and then costs would go up significantly.

Something that seems promising, at least, is a new trend of fitting 'smart lockers' in denser areas and multi-story buildings, so instead of buzzing 10 people in the same building and waiting 30 minutes to sort it all, the delivery person automatically puts stuff in lockers and send SMS one-time codes for the intended receivers who can then go downstairs, or to the end of the block, pick stuff up. I'm part of such a pilot program here in Tilburg. Anything that doesn't strictly require my signature goes to a locker. I then use an app to unblock and pick the parcels up - so it means no packages given to neighbors, no return trips next day, no need to time my presence at home.


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## Suburbanist

The Ministry of Justice announced it wants to increase criminal penalties for the most egregious traffic violations.


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## ChrisZwolle

I've read that a third of traffic in the canal belt of Amsterdam are delivery vans. These streets are narrow so these vans often block the street for a prolonged period of time (driving up to the next building all the time). 

They need a solution that is cost-effective and practical. Bike messengers exist in most cities but they can only carry relatively small amounts of cargo. Cycloon is a rapidly growing bicycle delivery service in larger cities. I see them all the time in Zwolle. But the problem seems to be cost; you need a large amount of personnel to deliver all those packages by bicycle. 

I've seen some unrealistic proposals such as building a tube system under Amsterdam where parcels would be sent through, or drone delivery. Imagine buzzing drones overhead the entire day.


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## MrAronymous

What they need is a central delivery service like they have in 's-Hertogenbosch and Utrecht. Preferrably with electric vehicles. Mind you that currently deliveries are done with delivery trucks, no matter how big or small the delivery actually is. That means a truck can hold up an entire street for one crate of champaign.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> _Rijkswaterstaat_ has conditionally awarded a large € 1 billion DBFM contract to build the A24 Blankenburg Tunnel in Rotterdam. If no complaints are lodged, Rijkswaterstaat will award the project to a consortium made up of Ballast Nedam (Netherlands), DEME (Belgium) and Macquarie (Australia).
> 
> It is a 20 year concession to build, finance and operate the tunnel and A24 motorway. The project includes the construction of a six lane tunnel, the westernmost crossing in Rotterdam, the A24 motorway and the expansion of A15 and A20 motorways leading up to the tunnel.


Where's the rest of the A24 supposed to go? For those of us who thought we knew the Dutch A-roads but have never heard of it.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Slagathor said:


> That would make sense. So would continuing the A4 past Hoogvliet and Oud-Beijerland on that map above.
> 
> But sense is irrelevant.


Isn't that what's supposed to happen?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Officially: nothing beyond the A15 to A20 link 

But a northern belt line of Rotterdam has been proposed in the past and construction will also commence on the A16 extension to A13 within a few years. So an A24 extension to A16 seems logical, but it is officially not planned and the new interchanges built as part of those projects also are not designed for any further extension.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A10 Amsterdam*

A10 will be closed on the west side of Amsterdam for two three-week periods, one direction at the time. They will resurface the motorway and replace bridge joints and drainage systems. Traffic will be detoured via the other side of Amsterdam or A5.

The last major overhaul on this part of A10 occurred during the summer of 2001. They used a 4+0 system at that time, with traffic in both directions using one carriageway. They feared a traffic chaos but it turned out to be managable. Traffic surely increased in the area and the rest of A10, but it wasn't a carmageddon. 

This time there won't be such a configuration, one side is being worked on and the other side runs as normal. However traffic can now use A5 to bypass A10. In 2001, traffic had no such alternative. They expect delays of up to 30 minutes during rush hour, though it wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't turn out to be so bad.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^First European freeway I drove on, after picking up a tiny Fiat from Hertz on Overtoom....


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## ChrisZwolle

*N305 Almere*

The twinning of N305 in Almere is now substantially complete. This will be an 80 km/h four lane road with traffic lights.











DSCN1454 by dutchroadmovies, on Flickr


N305 Vogelweg oost by dutchroadmovies, on Flickr


N305 Vogelweg - Nederstichtselaan by dutchroadmovies, on Flickr


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## not_just_a_lurker

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^First European freeway I drove on, after picking up a tiny Fiat from Hertz on Overtoom....


Aby impressions to share compared to The States?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Buitenring Parkstad Limburg*

Several sections of the regional expressway around Heerlen will open to traffic this year (indicated in green on the map below). Most notably a section from Brunssum to Landgraaf will open on 28 July.










edit: they will open the twinned N299 from Brunssum to Landgraaf with only a single lane in each direction for now.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A79*

On 31 July, the speed limit on the entire A79 from Heerlen to Maastricht will be reduced from 120 to 100 km/h.

The reason is the substandard design of the motorway. It was built with 1960s expressway design standards by the province of Limburg. After Rijkswaterstaat took over ownership in 1984, they added shoulders and upgraded it to motorway status.

However the motorway does not meet present-day design standards, especially in regard to cant and drainage. They plan to address that with a major overhaul in 2020 or 2021. Until that overhaul is completed, the speed limit will be set at 100 km/h.

A79 is not a heavily traveled motorway, with 30,000 - 40,000 vehicles per day and a fair low truck share. So the 100 km/h speed limit will be considered low when conditions are good. It's not yet known if it will be strictly enforced.


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## ChrisZwolle

Some brief news;

The A79 speed reduction has been criticized by local officials and the province of Limburg. They say the speed limit reduction from 120 to 100 km/h does not do the road justice, with the argument that the design deficiencies have existed for decades and the motorway does not have a higher crash rate than similar motorways. The major overhaul of A79 has been postponed several times. It appears to be an expensive project, much more demanding than just a simple overhaul. They have to redo its alignment (sloping and cant) and replace the 1970s asphalt. 

Rijkswaterstaat announced that they will implement a tender recess during the summer vacation and Christmas. Tender procedures that fall into these recesses will be extended (21 days in the summer and 7 days during Christmas). They did this to get more and better quality bids. The construction sector is partially shut down during these periods. 

A2 has been closed to all northbound traffic near Amsterdam since this morning and they expect the closure will last to past the morning rush hour tomorrow. The reason is a sinkhole under the motorway that occurred when a utility company was boring a pipeline under A2. They first have to stabilize the soil before they can repair the asphalt and reopen A2. Traffic impacts were relatively small due to the summer vacation. Traffic is detoured via A9.


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ A2 lane closing sequence. There was one driver who managed to ignore all of this and drove through the construction zone :nuts:


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## ChrisZwolle

Some photos of the A2 repairs at the Amstel motorway interchange (A2/A10), as of 7 p.m. this evening. They have to do a full-depth repair, first they remove the asphalt 30 cm deep and then they have to see if the foundation is also damaged by the incident. There is no ETA on reopening.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A6/A7 Knooppunt Joure*

New aerials.


Fly-overs- knooppunt A6/A7 by Fotosite Knooppunt Joure, on Flickr


Rotonde Joure by Fotosite Knooppunt Joure, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*Rotterdamsebaan, The Hague*

The Rotterdamsebaan south tunnel portal.

I find it interesting how you drive through a bridge or tunnel in a few seconds, not realizing how much work, time and money went into creating that link.


5H6A1214 by Rotterdamsebaan, on Flickr


20170609-Roba-Vlietzone-(9) by Rotterdamsebaan, on Flickr


Vlietzone startschacht by Rotterdamsebaan, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Amsterdam*

A construction update of the A9 5-tube tunnel in Amsterdam:


Wisselbaan vanaf Nellesteinpad by dutchroadmovies, on Flickr


DSCN1620 by dutchroadmovies, on Flickr


DSCN1606 by dutchroadmovies, on Flickr


Wisselbaan vanaf S113 by dutchroadmovies, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*A16 Rotterdam*

The Council of State has rejected all appeals against the construction of the A16 extension in Rotterdam. In a lengthy verdict, all appeals were dismissed one after the other. The conclusion 'the argument fails' was noted 40 times.


----------



## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> The conclusion 'the argument fails' was noted 40 times.


Yes, it feels like it's becoming a meme because that happens at every verdict. :lol:
Not complaining, just pointing out


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A58 Breda*

_Rijkswaterstaat_ has awarded the creation of the draft plan approval for the A58 expansion at Rijkswaterstaat to Witteveen+Bos, a major consultancy firm. They will create the draft plan approval, including the design and all environmental documentation for the project.

The plan is to expand A58 to six lanes between the St. Annabosch (A27) and Galder (A16) motorway interchanges. It is only a short section but is considered the highest priority of the A58 expansion between Eindhoven and Breda. This section carries both east-west and north-south traffic.

This portion of A58 was one of the last to be completed, it opened to traffic in 1989, relieving the old transit route through the city. Some 92,000 vehicles use this part of four lane A58 every day.

The timeline;
* draft plan approval: late 2018
* final plan approval: late 2019
* construction start: 2020
* completion: 2023*

* might be sooner. It is a straightforward project, they are usually very generous with construction schedules in the Netherlands, allowing for unforeseen delays with plan approval and/or construction without having to move up the completion deadline.


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## da_scotty

Are there plans for the rest of the A58 towards Eindhoven.. It's always, and I mean always busy.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A10 Amsterdam*

The renovation of A10 West in Amsterdam.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

da_scotty said:


> Are there plans for the rest of the A58 towards Eindhoven.. It's always, and I mean always busy.


Yes, there are plans called 'Innnova58': https://www.innova58.nl/

So far these plans only include the A58 at Breda and Tilburg - Eindhoven. There do not seem to be plans for Breda - Tilburg. Ideally the entire corridor should be six-laned.

Though I believe the section at Breda (between A16 and A27) would better be eight-laned as current traffic volumes are already at 92,000 vehicles per day and the truck share is quite high.


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## Slagathor

Irritatingly for the people of Brabant, parts of the solution are not in their province and they have little control over them.

What will help is when the Germans finally upgrade their part of the railway line that connects to the Betuweroute. More freight will go from Rotterdam to Germany by train.

But the trains and trucks from Antwerp represent the bulk of freight travel through Brabant, if I remember correctly, and getting rid of them would require either the reopening of the Iron Rhine or an Antwerpian connection to the Betuweroute (provided you'd be able to convince the Belgians that's a good idea).

It also probably wouldn't hurt for the ports of Vlissingen en Moerdijk to have better connections to the Betuweroute.

If you get all of that done, at least you'd be able to get rid of a significant number of trucks that, for Brabant, are only annoying without any benefits. Then it's just a matter of upgrading the roads to meet the requirements of local traffic.


----------



## bartek76

Slagathor said:


> But the trains and trucks from Antwerp represent the bulk of freight travel through Brabant, if I remember correctly, and getting rid of them would require either the reopening of the Iron Rhine



What was the reason for the closure?
According to wiki it happend only in 1991


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## Slagathor

bartek76 said:


> What was the reason for the closure?
> According to wiki it happend only in 1991


Its slow decline began during the first World War when Holland closed the route to safeguard its neutrality. Germany subsequently built the Montzenroute which to this day serves as an important freight corridor for the port of Antwerp. 

After the war, Belgium preferred to use the Montzenroute because they could avoid having to cross the territory of a third country (Holland) with all the paperwork that entailed. As Belgium was still a centralized state at the time, it served an additional purpose of improving connections between Antwerp and Liège (and further onward to Germany). Liège's position on the banks of the Meuse made (and makes) it an important transport hub in its own right, especially Southwards towards Northeastern France.

The stronger link to Liège essentially gave Antwerp a 2nd connection to France besides the Scheldt river which flows from Antwerp towards Lille and surroundings. The Meuse flows down to Verdun and (roughly) Nancy.

Meanwhile, in Holland, the railway connections between Eindhoven and Maastricht were upgraded and often rerouted so parts of the Iron Rhine were abandoned for passenger transport altogether.

So basically, the Belgians preferred to avoid it in the 1920s and '30s and stopped using it altogether in the '40s and '50s. There continued to be some cross-border freight traffic between Holland and Germany, but only sporadically. 

In the 1980s, maintenance works on the tunnels of the Montzenroute meant a modest increase in traffic over the Iron Rhine. But when those works were completed in 1991, the Belgians quickly switched back to using the Montzenroute and the Dutch decided to close the Iron Rhine completely in 1992. 

An interesting side note is that Holland and Germany tried to persuade the Belgians to use the Iron Rhine instead of the Montzenroute in 1954, even organizing a trilateral conference in Roermond. But the Belgians wouldn't hear of it. They feared an extra border check and possible duty fees.

In the last two decades or so, Belgium has decentralized and the Flemish have felt an urge for a 2nd link between Antwerp and Germany that avoids Walloon territory. So they requested to reopen the Iron Rhine. There are two problems with this idea: the Dutch part of the route is now a nature reserve area and the Iron Rhine Treaty on which the Belgians base their 'right of passage' over Dutch soil expired in 1972.


----------



## Theijs

Slagathor said:


> Irritatingly for the people of Brabant, parts of the solution are not in their province and they have little control over them.
> 
> But the trains and trucks from Antwerp represent the bulk of freight travel through Brabant...
> 
> If you get all of that done, at least you'd be able to get rid of a significant number of trucks that, for Brabant, are only annoying without any benefits. Then it's just a matter of upgrading the roads to meet the requirements of local traffic.


Wait... the trucks from Antwerpen take the E34 to Eindhoven and beyond (A21 in Belgium, A67 in NL, A40 in Germany). Why to make a detour via Breda and Tilburg?


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## ChrisZwolle

Allegedly to avoid the truck toll in Belgium, but a recent _Rijkswaterstaat_ study found no evidence of increased truck traffic that avoids Belgian E34 by taking Dutch A58.


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## Slagathor

It's gotta come from _somewhere_...

They could lower taxes on driving but then the income tax would go up and we'd all be b!tching about _that_.


----------



## 8166UY

Indeed. Also, there have been a lot of multi-billion euro investments in the road infrastructure in the last years, so a lot comes back to the drivers.

Plus, it's also used as a tool to get people to use the public transport as that is competitive in comparison this way. If this is the way to do that is of-course a political question.


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## ChrisZwolle

The expenditures on roads is only a small amount of the tax revenue. It is less than 20%.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N434 Rijnland Route, Leiden*

Constructor Comol5 begins with the construction of the 'Rijnland Route' expressway this month. The Rijnland Route is a four lane expressway with a bored tunnel south of Leiden, it will connect A4 and A44.

They will start with the construction of temporary access roads and work sites. To reduce truck traffic to the construction site, sand will be transported mostly by ship. They will also cut trees and brush. The first major works will be the demolition of the bus bridge across the Oude Rijn River. It is in the way of the expanded A44 bridge. 

The tree cutting may be delayed by an appeal against the permit, a preliminary injunction has been asked at the Council of State. It only concerns the portion that is in Leiden municipality. It is unlikely to cause any delays to the project.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Rotterdamsebaan, The Hague*

Concrete has been poured to build the walls for the boring pit of the Victory Boogie-Woogie Tunnel in The Hague.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A12*

A12 Den Haag - Gouda will be closed this coming weekend to install the first beams for a massive project: the Bleizo (Bleiswijk-Zoetermeer) station that will be built on a bridge on top of the motorway. A unique project.

This weekend they will install 31 beams with a length of 61 meters each. Rijkswaterstaat uses the closure to do some maintenance works on A12.


----------



## Slagathor

What on God's green Earth is going on there and why is frigging Zoetermeer getting something _that_ cool?


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## Wilhem275

Sweet Lake City :lol: 

All this cool render, and then they draw the oldest train still in use :lol:


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## Suburbanist

Zoerermeer should grow to be 400.000 large


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## MrAronymous

Zoetermeer should die a slow death.


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## Slagathor

I would bulldozer it with a 10 second warning.


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## da_scotty

The most boring of sleeper towns, worse then Almere even, as James May would say about the Nurburgring: BOMB IT .

It's still a smart Randstadrail extention though, just one bridge extra and you cut Zoetermeer-Utrecht times bij 30min for some people.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A6/A7 Knooppunt Joure*

A photo of the new Joure motorway interchange. It is one of the few - if not the only - 'German style' construction zone in the Netherlands.


Fly-over Sneek richting heerenveen by Fotosite Knooppunt Joure, on Flickr


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## The Polwoman

Des said:


> I have never quite understood the S-system in NL. In Amsterdam all exits are marked with an S-number but I didn't know they actually indicate a main road leading into the city. It is totally unclear where the S-road begins and ends and therefor not quite useful to follow.
> 
> https://www.iamsterdam.com/en/plan-your-trip/getting-around/arrival-departure/arrival-car/s-routes




And it's not even the worst the Netherlands has had on its signage. I remind myself the postal codes which were used for the A10 in Amsterdam. Abracadabra!


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## ChrisZwolle

*M.C. Escherakwadukt, Leeuwarden*

A recent aerial photo of the new aquaduct in Leeuwarden:


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## ChrisZwolle

*Rotterdamsebaan, The Hague*

The tunnel boring machine for the N62 Sluiskil Tunnel in Zeeland is being refurbished at Herrenknecht in Schwanau, Germany. They have rebuilt the machine and replaced the cutting head. It will soon be shipped to the Netherlands to start the construction of the Victory Boogie-Woogie Tunnel in The Hague.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A6/A7 Knooppunt Joure*

It is planned to open the new interchange and relocated A7 at Joure in October.


Fly-over Sneek-Heerenveen by Fotosite Knooppunt Joure, on Flickr


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## Suburbanist

Fun decor on the TBM blades. A shame De Stijl 100 jaar celebrations are coming to an end though...


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## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Het Vonderen - Kerensheide*

The draft plan approval for the A2 expansion in Limburg province has been signed yesterday.

The plan is to widen A2 from four to six lanes from Het Vonderen (A73) to Kerensheide (A76). This section of A2 has shoulder lanes, the average traffic is approximately 100,000 vehicles per day on most sections. 

The expansion is not just a simple outward widening, they will build an asymetric expansion to address 1950s design deficiencies. 

The project is budgeted for 2022-2025. There is no urgent need to do this as fast as possible, the shoulder lanes keep traffic moving.


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## Suburbanist

Will it fit a climbing lane near Geleen?


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## ChrisZwolle

*N702 / S101 Almere*

The province of Flevoland will start the expansion of provincial road N702 along the west side of Almere to a six-lane expressway. Construction will start in the second half of 2018 and will be completed by 2022. Intersections will be replaced by interchanges. It connects to the A6 expansion project.


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## Suburbanist

I'm having a Mojito with a great view of knoopount Holdendrecht from 18 floor of a hotel. These LED lights are incredibly fancy, fully illuminated highway but no glare escaping upwards


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## junky

Suburbanist said:


> I'm having a Mojito with a great view of knoopount Holdendrecht from 18 floor of a hotel. These LED lights are incredibly fancy, fully illuminated highway but no glare escaping upwards


And no picture?


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## Slagathor

You can't photograph LEDs, they're like vampires.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N31 Harlingen*

Recent photos of the four-lane expansion project in Harlingen.


JDR_panorama 3940 by N31 Harlingen, on Flickr


JDR_4749 panorama by N31 Harlingen, on Flickr


Harl N31 (6) by N31 Harlingen, on Flickr


----------



## MattiG

Slagathor said:


> You can't photograph LEDs, they're like vampires.


Sure you can, with the exposure time long enough.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N62 Terneuzen - Goes*

I put together a video of the upgraded N62 from Terneuzen to Goes in Zeeland province.






Post-2000 upgrades;
* Westerschelde Tunnel (6.6 km): 2003
* Sluiskil Tunnel (1.3 km): 2015
* N254 to A58 four-laning: 2016

Future upgrades;

* N254/N62 interchange (planned to start in a few years).
* N62 four-laning from the Belgian border to Terneuzen (started recently).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Autoweek reports that for the first time ever, the Netherlands has more unmanned, automated fuel stations than staffed fuel stations. There are now 2068 unmanned fuel stations and 2044 manned fuel stations.

Unlike some other countries, there are (virtually) no big box supermarkets in the Netherlands that sell fuel. In some countries, supermarkets supply close to half of all fuel sold, in the Netherlands this phenomenon is virtually unknown, but is replaced by the unmanned fuel stations, which typically have a 10-15 cent/liter discount compared to motorway service areas. You can find unmanned discount fuel stations practically everywhere, along major roads (but generally not motorways) but also more hidden locations in residential areas. 

Some people argue that the Netherlands has too many fuel stations for its population size. There is approximately 1 fuel station for every 4,100 inhabitants. 

I personally never refuel at a manned fuel station in the Netherlands. There is no point in going to refuel your car at a premium price and then even have to stand in line waiting to pay at a cashier.


----------



## renroz

We do have Makro (Metro group) 
https://www.makro.nl/vestigingen/tanken


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## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> I personally never refuel at a manned fuel station in the Netherlands. There is no point in going to refuel your car at a premium price and then even have to stand in line waiting to pay at a cashier.


There's no "pay-at-the-pump"? (When you say unmanned station, I'm visualizing a stand-alone fuel pump or two on a property where there's nothing else...as opposed to a convenience store or whatever that has pumps in front that you operate yourself, but someone inside to make change if you want to pay cash or have trouble, or to sell you food and drink....)


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## Suburbanist

Penn's Woods said:


> There's no "pay-at-the-pump"? (When you say unmanned station, I'm visualizing a stand-alone fuel pump or two on a property where there's nothing else...as opposed to a convenience store or whatever that has pumps in front that you operate yourself, but someone inside to make change if you want to pay cash or have trouble, or to sell you food and drink....)


Unmanned means completely unmanned. The payment terminal is next to the pump or a centralized one for 2 or 4 side-by-side of pumps. You put your card first, enter your PIN, refuel, take card out, print receipt and leave.

There are also stations with a small convenience store inside, which often have fuel costs € 0,08 - 0,15 higher than unmanned ones. Convenience stores are relatively small outside highway rest areas. They are rather expensive. 

I believe two of the reasons more and more stations are shutting off convenience stores and going completely unmanned are:

- more supermarkets opened until later or on weekends, and they all sell everything a convenience store has

- use of cash is declining fast in general, and the latest generation of PIN cards is very reliable (compared to the previous swipe + PIN). This is critical because new implementations of card transaction systems can pre-authorize an amount on a SEPA (Standard European Payment Area) instantly with zero risk of underfunded transaction when actual amount is complete. 

The Dutch don't use credit cards that much, they prefer PIN cards for everyday expenses.

Labor is also expensive in Netherlands.


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## Penn's Woods

^^In my limited experience of driving and buying fuel in Europe, I think I've always had to pay indoors at a cashier, even if I was using a card. Here - except in New Jersey (where it's "full service" only) - I always use a card, at a reader built into the pump. If I use the Visa debit card tied to my bank account, there's no cost for that versus paying cash.


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## ChrisZwolle

In the Netherlands it's usually two types;

* completed unstaffed fuel stations. A payment terminal at the pump.
* a staffed fuel station with convenience store. You pay inside at a cashier.

In other countries like Belgium, Luxembourg or France it is common for fuel station to have both a payment terminal at the pump and a convenience store. That is not very common in the Netherlands. It's either one or the other, not both. 

In some countries you have to pre-pay inside before you can refuel (typically after 10 p.m.) due to the amount of fuel theft. But this is increasingly replaced with payment terminals at the pump, which are much more convenient than guessing how much money you're going to refuel. Especially in Europe where fuel prices can vary significantly between countries. € 40 buys you 30 liters in France, 33 liters in Luxembourg and 25 liters in the Netherlands for example. Pre-payment at a cashier is a stupid system imho.


----------



## Spookvlieger

There are totally un-manned fuel stations in Belgium as well and they can have several pumps without a shop or anyone present. You need just need bankpas/creditcard, chose your pumpnumber on the screen and your're done. In my personal experience: Germany, Italy, Austria, Slovenia, France and Croatia there is no way you will pay like that even in local pump stations it's nearmy unheard off. You fill up, by then a smart camera will have read your license plate number. Then you need to go to the cashier, say the pump number and pay the bill. In some stations they will print out your license number on the ticket as well.


----------



## Penn's Woods

joshsam said:


> There are totally un-manned fuel stations in Belgium as well and they can have several pumps without a shop or anyone present. You need just need bankpas/creditcard, chose your pumpnumber on the screen and your're done. In my personal experience: Germany, Italy, Austria, Slovenia, France and Croatia there is no way you will pay like that even in local pump stations it's nearmy unheard off. You fill up, by then a smart camera will have read your license plate number. Then you need to go to the cashier, say the pump number and pay the bill. In some stations they will print out your license number on the ticket as well.


I've driven in the Netherlands, Belgium, France and Germany, but I'm not sure I've bought fuel in Belgium or Germany. (And I'm saying "fuel" because the cars used diesel.)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*bridges*

Historic aerial photos of bridges in the Netherlands.

1. The Katerveer Bridge across the IJssel River in Zwolle during the late 1920s. The bridge opened to traffic in 1930, and carried all traffic until the motorway bridge opened in 1970. The photo shows that the main arch span was not yet constructed.

Zwolle by Nederlands Instituut voor Militaire Historie, on Flickr

2. This photo shows the Katerveer Bridge completed. The twin-span arch bridge in the foreground is a railroad bridge built in the 1860s. It was demolished a few years ago when a new railroad bridge opened.

Zwolle by Nederlands Instituut voor Militaire Historie, on Flickr

3. The Waal Bridge at Zaltbommel under construction in the early 1930s. It opened to traffic in 1933 and carried A2 traffic until 1996!

Zaltbommel by Nederlands Instituut voor Militaire Historie, on Flickr

4. The Waal Bridge at Nijmegen. It opened in 1936 and was the longest span bridge in Europe at that time.

Nijmegen by Nederlands Instituut voor Militaire Historie, on Flickr

5. The Meuse Bridge at Hedel ('s-Hertogenbosch) under construction in the mid-1930s. It opened to traffic in 1937 and carried all through traffic until the motorway bridge opened in 1970.

Hedel by Nederlands Instituut voor Militaire Historie, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*bridge history*

The Netherlands went on a bridge-building spree in the late 1920s. Before 1930 the only bridges across major rivers were railroad bridges. Some routes had pontoon bridges or 'ship bridges' for centuries, but these were not operational at all times. 

If you look at the opening dates of major river crossings before World War II;

*Rhine River system:*
* Willems Bridge Rotterdam: 1878
* Waal Bridge Zaltbommel: 1933
* John Frost Bridge Arnhem: 1935
* Moerdijk Bridge: 1936
* Waal Bridge Nijmegen: 1936
* Lek Bridge Vianen: 1936
* Noord River Bridge: 1939
* City Bridge Zwijndrecht: 1939

*Meuse River:*
* Sint Servaas Bridge: 1298 / 1932
* Heusden Bridge: 1904
* John S. Thompson Bridge: 1929
* Keizersveer Bridge: 1931
* Wilhelmina Bridge: 1932
* Maas Bridge Hedel: 1937

*IJssel River*
* IJssel Bridge Zutphen: 1865
* City Bridge Kampen: 1874
* Katerveer Bridge: 1930
* Wilhemina Bridge: 1943

As you can see very few bridges existed before 1930, but a large number of fixed span bridges were completed between 1930 and 1939. Some locations had a combined road/rail bridge, for example across the IJssel River at Zutphen. Some cities had improvised bridges dating back to just after the middle ages. The Sint Servaas Bridge in Maastricht is considered the oldest bridge in the Netherlands and dates back to 1298 but has been reconstructed in 1932.


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## ChrisZwolle

We had a bit of a windstorm yesterday. Of course the usual suspects were blown over: those light-weight Polish / Romanian trucks with a single-axle trailer. They can overturn even when parked on a rest area. These types of trucks are almost never used by Dutch trucking companies. They cause traffic headaches every time there is a windstorm.


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Huh. I heard "hurricane-force winds" (above about 120 km/h); is that an exaggeration?

A friend recently moved from Georgia to the Frankfurt area. He reported a fallen tree limb on Facebook yesterday and joked that Irma had followed him.


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## ChrisZwolle

There were some gusts up to 120 km/h. 

Wind speeds are measured in two ways in the Netherlands;

* sustained winds: usually expressed in the Beaufort scale. (12 bft = hurricane). More scientific sources will use meters per second.
* gusts: usually expressed in km/h. Expressing gusts with the Beaufort scale is considered improper usage. There is no such thing as a '12 bft gust'.

The Beaufort scale is not used in many countries. In Europe it goes up to 12 bft, in Taiwan it evidently has a higher scale to account for the typhoons. 12 bft as a sustained wind is extremely rare in the Netherlands. 9 bft is a gale (tropical storm force in the U.S.), 10 or 11 bft is sometimes briefly attained at one or two coastal measuring stations, usually for only a short period of time. 12 bft is really uncommon.


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## MattiG

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Beaufort scale is not used in many countries.


The Nordic countries adopted meters per second as the official unit in 1976 and threw away the Beaufort scale.


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## sotonsi

^^ while m/s makes lots of sense, speeds on the same order of magnitude are done in km/h, which (due to non-SI unit for vehicle speed) makes things harder to deal with. 1m/s = 3.6km/h.

Even the British only really use Beaufort scale in nautical contexts - most famously the Shipping Forecast (eg Dogger, Fisher, German Bight. 7 to strong gale 9. Rain. Poor.). Regular weather forecasts will use Beaufort scale terms like 'gale', 'strong gale', etc to make clear the warning about strong winds, even if they deliberately never say the Beaufort number (unlike the Shipping Forecast)

An empirical description of 'hurricane-force' for winds over ≥ 118 km/h or 73 mph or 64 knots or 32.7 m/s (which aren't all the same value) conveys the message that this is severely strong quicker than the figures, especially if one isn't fluent in whichever units are being used. Like temperature, the exact figure is far from essential, and a description is more useful as that's what you want to know.


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## Penn's Woods

^^I'm no meteorologist, so I don't know what this means, really, but in the U.S. something called the Saffer-Simpson (sp?) scale is used for classifications - "a category-3 hurricane" and the like... The weather reports will usually say both that classification and the winds in miles per hour. "100 miles per hour" is pretty easy to understand.


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## Suburbanist

The problem with the fixation on pure speed winds is that it ignores that, for all but the most powerful rare storms, storm surge and rain are bigger treats for a wider area than pure wind speeds. Irma did relatively minor wind damage in Florida (though it ravaged St. Maarten/S. Martin, Barbuda and Caicos), 90% of the damage there is due to flooding (from storm surge and rain). Harvey is an even starker example of that - stationary tropical storms can be extremely dangerous even if their winds are relatively tame.


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## Nikolaj

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^I'm no meteorologist, so I don't know what this means, really, but in the U.S. something called the Saffer-Simpson (sp?) scale is used for classifications - "a category-3 hurricane" and the like... The weather reports will usually say both that classification and the winds in miles per hour. "100 miles per hour" is pretty easy to understand.


The Saffer-Simpson scale is not really relevant in European context, as we don't experience hurricane/cyclone/typhoon style events caused by tropical depression. Even the strongest storm/Hurricanes experienced in the North Sea cannot qualify to anymore than a category 1 hurricane at the Saffer-Simpson scale.


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## MattiG

sotonsi said:


> ^^ while m/s makes lots of sense, speeds on the same order of magnitude are done in km/h, which (due to non-SI unit for vehicle speed) makes things harder to deal with. 1m/s = 3.6km/h.


Well... The wind speed has virtually no direct connection to another things measured by units of speed. Therefore, the unit most often does not matter.

When the wind exceeds 8 m/s, then boating is unpleasant, and my boat stays moored. It if exceeds 15 m/s, then the weather is stormy. I do not need to convert these figures into any other units to understand them. I think this is basic reason why so many windspeed scales are in use. Some prefer m/s, some km/h, some knots, and even beauforts.

The conversion to knots is easy: 1 m/s equals to about 2 knots.


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## ChrisZwolle

MattiG said:


> I do not need to convert these figures into any other units to understand them.


It's a matter of being used to certain scales / measurement systems. Hence, the U.S. won't switch from Fahrenheit or gallons to Celsius and liters. And that's why the Netherlands still uses the Beaufort scale, which is based on the observation of the effect of wind on a vessel.

Meters per second is basically never used in non-scientific meteorological context in the Netherlands, wheareas a Scandinavian may be comfortable with 10 m/s, that figure would not be understood by the Dutch because it is never used. 

Km/h is a convenient alternative because they are relatable to the speed of driving, something everyone is familiar with.


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## sotonsi

MattiG said:


> Well... The wind speed has virtually no direct connection to another things measured by units of speed. Therefore, the unit most often does not matter.


Absolutely they aren't linked*, but - as the unit doesn't matter:
1) what's wrong with km/h that wind speed uses a different measure? It's like speaking English for everything else, but then suddenly dipping into Finnish to discuss the weather!
2) why unit-driven m/s rather than the meaning-driven Beaufort scale if the numbers and unit don't matter beyond people understanding what that means?

I really don't think that there's anything wrong with using m/s, or whatever, to measure wind speed. I'm just interested in why Nordic countries went down the path of divergence from the rest of the world, when the pattern is increasing conformity.

*Though the number of anti-non-metric debates where I've seen people praise metric for this and how it is ridiculous that ergs don't tell you how many cubic centimetres of water you can heat up by 1 degree by eating this candy bar, unlike 'metric' calories (of course the standard metric unit of energy is Joule, and it is much more useful to know about moving a weight of 1N how many metres, though still almost entirely irrelevant).


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## Penn's Woods

Suburbanist said:


> The problem with the fixation on pure speed winds is that it ignores that, for all but the most powerful rare storms, storm surge and rain are bigger treats for a wider area than pure wind speeds. Irma did relatively minor wind damage in Florida (though it ravaged St. Maarten/S. Martin, Barbuda and Caicos), 90% of the damage there is due to flooding (from storm surge and rain). Harvey is an even starker example of that - stationary tropical storms can be extremely dangerous even if their winds are relatively tame.


Agreed, largely, although wind damage in the Keys and around Naples seems to have been severe. The Weather Channel (a) was very emphatic even before Harvey that its parking there for several days would cause big problems in the Houston area; and (b) has started giving additional sorts of warnings...They're not just talking about "a category-x hurricane," but giving "storm surge warnings" and "high wind warnings," and talking about "when hurricane-force winds (or hurricane-force gusts or tropical-storm-force winds) will reach a given area," because that can be a day before the eye of the storm, if the eye reaches that area at all. Some of these are official National Weather Service or National Hurricane Center "products" that they've developed in the last few years.

We're going through another round of this right now, actually, with José possibly coming close to New York and New England in about three days.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N7 Groningen*

The final plans for a changed design of the Julianaplein interchange in Groningen have been released. 

Instead of a bridge-y design, it will become a tunnel-y design. A28 and N7 meet here, it is presently the busiest traffic light in the Netherlands with over 100,000 vehicles per day.

The image shows the old design (top) and new design (bottom).


Knooppunt Julianaplein by European Roads, on Flickr


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## MattiG

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's a matter of being used to certain scales / measurement systems. Hence, the U.S. won't switch from Fahrenheit or gallons to Celsius and liters. And that's why the Netherlands still uses the Beaufort scale, which is based on the observation of the effect of wind on a vessel.
> 
> Meters per second is basically never used in non-scientific meteorological context in the Netherlands, wheareas a Scandinavian may be comfortable with 10 m/s, that figure would not be understood by the Dutch because it is never used.
> 
> Km/h is a convenient alternative because they are relatable to the speed of driving, something everyone is familiar with.


I cannot understand what the issue is here. There are at least four different scales of windspeed in wide use. Why would some of those be absolutely better than the others? What comes to relation to driving speed, the relation is weak. 50 km/h is quite a heavy wind but very low speed on a motorway. The scales do not correlate.

The Beaufort scale was initially created for sailing purposes. Because nautical mile is the natural unit on the seas, the knot would be the most logical unit to replace Beauforts.


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## ChrisZwolle

Nothing is expressed in meters per second in everyday life. You walk 5 km/h. You cycle 20 km/h. You drive 50 to 130 km/h. Those are far more relatable terms for the average public than '15 m/s', much like knots or beaufort, which you can only get a sense of by getting used to it rather than comparison to everyday 'units'.

There is even a tendency to oversimplify weights and sizes to 'millions of kilograms' instead of tonnes, 'the size of _x_ olympic swimming pools' instead of cubic meters or 'the size of _x_ football fields' instead of square meters.


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## g.spinoza

MattiG said:


> I cannot understand what the issue is here. There are at least four different scales of windspeed in wide use. Why would some of those be absolutely better than the others? What comes to relation to driving speed, the relation is weak. 50 km/h is quite a heavy wind but very low speed on a motorway. The scales do not correlate.
> 
> The Beaufort scale was initially created for sailing purposes. Because nautical mile is the natural unit on the seas, the knot would be the most logical unit to replace Beauforts.


It's not a matter of a scale being better than another. It is a matter of consistency and ease of communication.

When you play with different scales in different countries, this may happen:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter


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## riiga

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nothing is expressed in meters per second in everyday life.


Wind speeds are


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## 54°26′S 3°24′E

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nothing is expressed in meters per second in everyday life. You walk 5 km/h. You cycle 20 km/h. You drive 50 to 130 km/h. Those are far more relatable terms for the average public than '15 m/s', much like knots or beaufort, which you can only get a sense of by getting used to it rather than comparison to everyday 'units'.


I disagree. It is not like you follow the blowing air for kms and hours. The impact you see is usually on the scale of meters, and is rather instantaneous. Eg, seing the leaves blowing from "here to there". Hence, for wind, I think m/s is a very meaningful scale. Beaufort scale really does not do anything than assigning numbers to wind classifications that is more easier understood by the layman (fresh breeze=5, strong gale=9). I really do not see the point.


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## ChrisZwolle

I wasn't arguing about the Beaufort scale being better (it is not) or more scientifically correct (it is not), but the fact that km/h is far more relatable for everyday usage among the general populace than other measurements which requires prior knowledge such as m/s, kts or bft. 

100 km/h is instantly recognizable for everyone. 28 m/s or 10 beaufort is not *unless* you are familiar with the system.


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## Penn's Woods

g.spinoza said:


> It's not a matter of a scale being better than another. It is a matter of consistency and ease of communication.
> 
> When you play with different scales in different countries, this may happen:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter


Should have just stuck to customary measures. Got us to the Moon after all. ;-)


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## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> I wasn't arguing about the Beaufort scale being better (it is not) or more scientifically correct (it is not), but the fact that km/h is far more relatable for everyday usage among the general populace than other measurements which requires prior knowledge such as m/s, kts or bft.
> 
> 100 km/h is instantly recognizable for everyone. 28 m/s or 10 beaufort is not *unless* you are familiar with the system.


All of which has what to do with Knooppunt Julianaplein? ;-)

(Where I've actually driven, on my first day with a tiny rented Fiat. Went up to Groningen to check out De Zwerver, since I've ordered stuff from them, and it was an excuse to drive over the Afsluitdijk.)


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## italystf

I'm surprised that Knooppunt Julianaplein hadn't been solved before, as a traffic light between two major motorways is likelt to create huge traffic jams.


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## MichiH

^^ I drove there this afternoon and there was no jam at all. I even didn't have to stop... 

Well, I think Saturday afternoon should not be used to set the benchmark


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## ChrisZwolle

They built tunnels for north-south traffic under the intersection in 2009, which relieved some pressure from the traffic light-controlled intersection.

The intersection was built in 1968 when they developed the first stage of N7 through Groningen. It was completely in use with all four branches in 1971. It was always seen as 'temporary' because they started planning a new southern bypass already during the 1970s. However a good alignment with limited impact could not be identified and later studies showed that the bulk of N7 traffic has an origin or destination in Groningen, so it would be more effective to upgrade the existing N7, which is what they're going to do over the next few years.


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## italystf

^^ Hopefully N7 will be signed as A7 after the upgrade, to avoid creating an Italian-style road numbering inconsistency.


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## ChrisZwolle

It will remain N7 because the design standards of a motorway cannot fit through there without sacrificing capacity. It's a small miracle they're going to expand that section of N7 to 2x4 lanes.


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## MichiH

^^ I think A31 through Harlingen will also remain being called N31. I passed there today and doubt that it will be completed by the end of the year. Is there any updated estimated opening date?


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## Langeveldt

MichiH said:


> ^^ I drove there this afternoon and there was no jam at all. I even didn't have to stop...
> 
> Well, I think Saturday afternoon should not be used to set the benchmark


Wait until you go there when FC Groningen have a match.


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## italystf

I think European countries should use a more pragmatic approach when numbering their roads.
Let's say, if a section of road has a bit lower standard than motorway standards, but it's the natural continuation of a motorway, it should be signposted as the rest of the motorway to make the numbering system more intuitive. Of course a lower speed limit could be implemented there if necessary, but a lower speed limit isn't incompatible with motorway designation.
Let alone the cases where a same-standard road changes number only because it crosses a national subdivision or because it's managed by a different DOT.
In some countries like Switzerland, Austria, Hungary or Croatia some non-motorway roads have the same prefix normally used for motorways, when the same route is made up by both motorway and non-motorway sections.
The extreme opposite could be Italy, where the route between Messina and Rosolini, although perfectly continuous, changes denomination 5 times (!), only because different sections were built in different times and are managed by different government bodies.


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## Penn's Woods

^^The Dutch take a step in the right direction by using the same numbers. (I mean the A7 and N7 are segments of the same route 7, whereas in other countries they might not have much to do with each other.)


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## MichiH

^^ Just because A roads generally replace the N road of the corridor... Poland does it the same way (S roads replace DK roads)...


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## sotonsi

^^ As do Ireland and Czechia.


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## ChrisZwolle

There are a couple of numbering systems in use in Europe;

* integrated system of combined A/N routes separated by prefix: Netherlands
* system where A/N routes run parallel to each other and where A route numbering is roughly based on N numbering: France
* separate system for A/N route numbering: Germany

The Netherlands is a bit unusual in that there are almost no non-motorways owned by the national government. There are also no major roads running parallel to motorways as well. For example in France there is a system of (pre 2006) routes nationales running parallel to motorways, the A-numbering system is roughly based on the N-numbering. 

The Netherlands was very early with building roads on new alignments, especially in the west where roads ran across dikes and were not suited for any quick travel even outside of the towns. A number of motorways in the west were already built in the 1930s, or are based on new alignment roads built in the 1930s. By the time mass-motorization came around in the 1950s and 1960s, a fairly extensive network of motorways already existed, so there was little need to upgrade the secondary road network. By the late 1970s virtually all major routes were motorways. Provinces upgraded some routes as well, but only on a case-by-case basis, they weren't planning to upgrade all provincial roads to higher standards due to the dense motorway network that was planned.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Gaasperdam Tunnel*

The first asphalt has been poured in the Gaasperdam Tunnel in Amsterdam. At 3 kilometers, is the longest land tunnel in the Netherlands. It has 5 tubes.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N31 Harlingen*



MichiH said:


> ^^ I think A31 through Harlingen will also remain being called N31. I passed there today and doubt that it will be completed by the end of the year. Is there any updated estimated opening date?


I doubt whether it will open in the next three months as well. We'll see, sometimes these projects mop up quickly in the final phase.


JDR_7328 by N31 Harlingen, on Flickr


JDR_7271 by N31 Harlingen, on Flickr


JDR_6620 by N31 Harlingen, on Flickr


JDR_6618 by N31 Harlingen, on Flickr


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## ErwinFCG

ChrisZwolle said:


> It will remain N7 because the design standards of a motorway cannot fit through there without sacrificing capacity. It's a small miracle they're going to expand that section of N7 to 2x4 lanes.


I also don't really understand why it could not be named A7, apart from bureaucratic reasons. Especially after the reconstruction when there are no longer at-grade intersections, I think it makes much more sense. The current situation just makes it very unclear. For example, the traffic information on the radio often gives traffic jams on the "A7 from the German border towards Westerbroek" (rather than "towards Groningen"). From the other side, often a traffic jam of e.g. 2 km is reported on the A7 between Hoogkerk and Groningen-West, while actually this traffic jam continues to the Julianaplein junction on the N7, but this is never reported.


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## renroz

MichiH said:


> ^^ I drove there this afternoon and there was no jam at all. I even didn't have to stop...
> 
> Well, I think Saturday afternoon should not be used to set the benchmark


In the morning, there is jam from 7am-9am , and 16 - I guess 18:30. From all the 3 sides.


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## ChrisZwolle

*2018 budget*

The current government presented the 2018 budget today. The current government is demissionary, parliamentary elections were held in March 2017 and the 4-party government formation is currently in its final phase. The 2018 budget is basically an extension of the 2017 budget. 

The 2018 budget presented today is considered a formality until the next government will be installed, likely next month. If it is not installed until 18 October 2017, incumbent minister Melanie Schultz will be the longest serving minister of infrastructure since World War II, at 7 years and 4 days. The current record-holder is Neelie Kroes who served 7 years and 3 days during the 1980s. Both of them are from the conservative-liberal VVD party, which will be the leading party of the next government as well (Rutte III cabinet). New ministerial posts have not been announced yet. Melanie Schultz will not serve a third term. 

The 2018 infrastructure fund has a budget of € 6.2 billion, which is up from € 5.9 billion in 2017. However fluctuations in the range of a few hundred million are commonplace between budget years so they cannot be seen as a trend yet.

The 2018 infrastructure fund is divided as follows:









The next government will very likely make amendments to the budget presented today, so it has not a lot of value. The parliamentary debate about the budget has even been scrapped (this is usually considered the most important political event of the year).

Major budget changes to the infrastructure fund are not expected however. There won't be a radical change of direction and infrastructure & mobility is not considered a top priority at this time. Though it is to be expected that motions will fund some projects currently unfunded.


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## ChrisZwolle

*future projects*

The 2018 budget also included four new road projects in the MIRT funding and planning instrument. 

MIRT means _Meerjarenprogramma Infrastructuur, Ruimte en Transport_, which translated to English means something like 'multi-year infrastructure, spatial and transport programme'.

A new MIRT project starts as a feasibility and alternatives study. It usually will not go into formal procedures until 2-3 years and construction within 5-6 years. Due to budgetary reasons, they may even be prioritized lower and thus farther into the future.

The new MIRT studies are;

* CRA = Corridor Rotterdam - Antwerpen (A4 extension)
* A4 The Hague (A4 expansion around The Hague, almost half a billion euros is reserved for it)
* A67 Leenderheide - Zaarderheiken (A67 expansion between Eindhoven and Venlo)
* A67/A73 Zaarderheiken interchange reconstruction

These projects have long been contemplated so aren't really surprising. The CRA / A4 extension project was part of an earlier MIRT study in 2011, which at the time did not lead to any further steps due to the economic crisis.

The A4 The Hague project is basically the next step of the earlier 'Haaglanden' regional mobility study. Which is why this project already has some design and planning work done, with € 453 million reserved for it in the mid-to-late 2020s. 

The A67 study is a formality because there has long been talk about the expansion of A67 between Eindhoven and Venlo. This section of motorway has intense truck traffic and lots of crashes. 

The Zaarderheiken Interchange reconstruction is just a minor project where they expand the northbound collector lane to two lanes. It's more like an optimization of the existing infrastructure than a full-blown expansion project.

The lack of new projects is - as said - the result of the 2018 budget being an extension of the 2017 budget by the current demissionary cabinet.


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## Suburbanist

Does the CRA contemplate a new A4 segment to close the existing gap?


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## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> The 2018 budget also included four new road projects in the MIRT funding and planning instrument.
> 
> MIRT means _Meerjarenprogramma Infrastructuur, Ruimte en Transport_, which translated to English means something like 'multi-year infrastructure, spatial and transport programme'.
> 
> A new MIRT project starts as a feasibility and alternatives study. It usually will not go into formal procedures until 2-3 years and construction within 5-6 years. Due to budgetary reasons, they may even be prioritized lower and thus farther into the future.
> 
> The new MIRT studies are;
> 
> * CRA = Corridor Rotterdam - Antwerpen (A4 extension)
> * A4 The Hague (A4 expansion around The Hague, almost half a billion euros is reserved for it)
> * A67 Leenderheide - Zaarderheiken (A67 expansion between Eindhoven and Venlo)
> * A67/A73 Zaarderheiken interchange reconstruction
> 
> These projects have long been contemplated so aren't really surprising. The CRA / A4 extension project was part of an earlier MIRT study in 2011, which at the time did not lead to any further steps due to the economic crisis.
> 
> The A4 The Hague project is basically the next step of the earlier 'Haaglanden' regional mobility study. Which is why this project already has some design and planning work done, with € 453 million reserved for it in the mid-to-late 2020s.
> 
> The A67 study is a formality because there has long been talk about the expansion of A67 between Eindhoven and Venlo. This section of motorway has intense truck traffic and lots of crashes.
> 
> The Zaarderheiken Interchange reconstruction is just a minor project where they expand the northbound collector lane to two lanes. It's more like an optimization of the existing infrastructure than a full-blown expansion project.
> 
> The lack of new projects is - as said - the result of the 2018 budget being an extension of the 2017 budget by the current demissionary cabinet.


Could "ruimte" mean "open space"?


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## Suburbanist

Penn's Woods said:


> Could "ruimte" mean "open space"?


Yes, but when used in that government bureaucracy context, it is closer to spatial (management). It involves things like water storage, nature corridors etc.


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## jdb.2

Ruimte literally just means "space". It's used in the same contexts as in English. For example, it could also mean "outer space".
Maybe the Dutch are launching a space program to build a colony on Mars, for when the ice caps will melt. It could be the Delta Plan II program.


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## temlin

Goodbye :sad2:


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## ChrisZwolle

*statistics*

The 2nd traffic report of 2017 was released today. It contains some statistics.

1. Traveled kilometers on the motorway network. 2017 continues to see significant traffic growth.









2. However traffic congestion has remained stable. 









3. Traffic congestion in more detail


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Ministry of Infrastructure & waterworks*

The transfer of power at the Ministry of Infrastructure & Waterworks.

left to right (table): Melanie Schultz (minister, VVD, outgoing), Cora van Nieuwenhuizen (minister, VVD, incoming), Sharon Dijksma (state secretary, PvdA, outgoing), Stientje van Veldhoven (state secretary, D66, incoming).









The portfolio:

Cora van Nieuwenhuizen, minister;
* road infrastructure
* waterworks
* maritime
* aviation

Stientje van Veldhoven, state secretary;
* environment (except climate)
* soil
* public transport
* cycling
* KNMI (meteorology)
* nuclear safety

The biggest changes are the introduction of a minister for climate. Climate was moved to the Ministry of Economic Affairs. Also, spatial planning law has been moved to the Ministry of the Interior. The aviation portfolio has been moved from the state secretary to the minister.


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## Slagathor

Spatial planning has gone to the Interior??? That most hopeless of ministries, I sense trouble.  There's an old joke in The Hague that says if you want something to be smothered by bureaucracy so that it simply vanishes, send it to the Interior.


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## ChrisZwolle

It seems that the legal part of spatial planning went to the interior, such as the _crisis- en herstelwet_ (crisis recovery act) and the new _omgevingswet_ (spatial law) which combines almost all spatial laws into a single one. It will become live in 2021 or so, if things continue as planned.


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## Suburbanist

The Netherlands badly need a new national plan for urban expansion, like the VINEX initiative of the late 1990s... Brownfield opportunities are mostly scooped up and housing prices are rising again, the incremental approach will not create enough housing. So they should create some new cities from scratch, near good highway and railway connection.

Dronten and Neerijnen look two such good areas to build entire new settlements from scratch. There are many more.

Office space still on a glut though.


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## Suburbanist

*Traffic chaos in Dutch cities partly due to huge rise in taxis*



> The enormous growth in the number of taxis in the Netherlands is causing traffic chaos in the large cities, taxi drivers’ lobby group KNV told the Telegraaf on Wednesday.
> 
> ‘Measures to eliminate the congestion are badly needed,’ KNV secretary Hubert Andela said. His comments follow the publication of a new report by national statistics office CBS which said the number of taxi firms in the Netherlands have almost doubled since 2015.
> 
> The CBS said four out of five of the new taxi firms were one-man operations who drove for new online providers like Uber and Abel.On October 1 there were 9,000 taxi companies in the Netherlands, a 50% increase in taxi numbers over the past two years. Regulations have been simplified and drivers no longer need a permit so that it is easier to be a self-employed taxi driver.


Full text


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## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> The Netherlands badly need a new national plan for urban expansion, like the VINEX initiative of the late 1990s... Brownfield opportunities are mostly scooped up and housing prices are rising again, the incremental approach will not create enough housing. So they should create some new cities from scratch, near good highway and railway connection.
> 
> Dronten and Neerijnen look two such good areas to build entire new settlements from scratch. There are many more.
> 
> Office space still on a glut though.


Housing affordability is a growing problem (again) and won't be solved by constructing premium priced infill developments. 

The Netherlands needs more decentralized jobs. During the economic crisis, many regional offices of larger organizations closed or were slimmed down. This increased commuting distances, traveled kilometers on the motorway system is growing substantially faster than population, car ownership or the economy. 

There is still an office space glut due to the more concentrated usage of existing office space. Many larger employers are using 'het nieuwe werken', increasing the number of fte's per m². I work in a centrally located office district and parking problems have increased significantly even with the train station next door and still a considerable amount of vacant office space. There are more workers per square meter in such office districts. Things will get out of hand once the office space vacancy decreases.


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## Slagathor

More flexibility would be good too. I don't have any children and I would happily work on Saturday and Sunday while having (for example) Tuesday and Wednesday off instead. I would also love to start at 11 and finish at 19. But many employers remain stuck in their old patterns and the government offers basically zero incentives for them to change their ways.


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Most workers have partners or children, so working until late in the evening is not really a desired option for most. Also, telecommuting doesn't work for most jobs, even with office jobs many employers are reluctant for their employees to work from home for more than 1-2 days per week. Human interaction remains important. 

Many people try to avoid the peak hour, but traffic is heavy from 6:30 - 9:30 and again from 15:00 - 19:00, there's only so much you can do to change the time of travel. At my office district there is almost no parking available after 7:30. Which is a pain for companies and government agencies who have customer service starting at 9:00 with no parking available. There is a mad dash in the morning to get to work as early as possible so you can park nearby and avoid traffic congestion.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Gaasperdam Tunnel*

The Gaasperdam Tunnel of A9 in Amsterdam is really taking shape now.


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## MrAronymous

Subtle name sign.


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## Slagathor

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ Most workers have partners or children, so working until late in the evening is not really a desired option for most. Also, telecommuting doesn't work for most jobs, even with office jobs many employers are reluctant for their employees to work from home for more than 1-2 days per week. Human interaction remains important.
> 
> Many people try to avoid the peak hour, but traffic is heavy from 6:30 - 9:30 and again from 15:00 - 19:00, there's only so much you can do to change the time of travel. At my office district there is almost no parking available after 7:30. Which is a pain for companies and government agencies who have customer service starting at 9:00 with no parking available. There is a mad dash in the morning to get to work as early as possible so you can park nearby and avoid traffic congestion.


I can understand it's not suitable for everyone but if you give me (and people like me) the opportunity, we'll take it. And then we can get out of your way.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12, Utrecht*

A photo of A12 at Utrecht, with the _Rijkswaterstaat_ headquarters symbolically located at the Galecopper Bridge which carries one of the busiest motorways in the Netherlands over the busiest shipping canal. 

There are plans to expand the collector lanes of A12 to 3 lanes each way in the near future. Procedures are ongoing as part of the A27 14 lane expansion project. This section of A12 carries 220,000 vehicles per day.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*air quality*

The annual air quality report (NSL 2017) has been published today. It concerns the year 2016.

In 2016, there was 7.2 km of roads which exceeded NO2 limits, chiefly in dense urban environments (including less than 1 kilometer of motorways). In 2009, there was 1100 km of road where the NO2 limits were exceeded.

The remaining PM10 problems are around livestock farms. For the first time, the annual limit for PM10 was not exceeded anywhere, but the daily limit was still exceeded at 35 locations, due to 29 livestock farms.

The average PM10 concentration has been reduced by 25% since 2010. 

They forecast that NO2 concentrations will continue to go down in 2020. That trend is less certain for PM10.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*File!*

Lots of 'file' (congestion) on the Dutch motorway network this afternoon. 

Most of the worst congestion days are in the week after Daylight Saving Time ends. The evening rush then suddenly becomes dark. Add the autumn rain, and this is the result...


----------



## Bobbje

ChrisZwolle said:


> Lots of 'file' (congestion) on the Dutch motorway network this afternoon.
> 
> Most of the worst congestion days are in the week after Daylight Saving Time ends. The evening rush then suddenly becomes dark. Add the autumn rain, and this is the result...


Don't forget the extra German traffic in the eastern part of the Netherlands because they have a day of. On the n342, a provincial road in the province of Overijssel, a traffic jam is occurring between Denekamp and the border near Nordhorn. On its peak moment a delay of 40 minutes was gives for a distances of 8 kilometres. And no further incident occur on the route.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

An hour later, nearly all congestion has vanished....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A24 Maasdelta Tunnel*

The planned Blankenburg Tunnel has been renamed to Maasdelta Tunnel. (Meuse River Delta Tunnel). 

The Maasdelta Tunnel is part of the new A24 motorway, currently in tender phase. 

The reasoning for renaming the tunnel: Blankenburg Tunnel is 'too vague'. Blankenburg is a former village near the site of the new tunnel, that was lost during the Europort expansion during the 1960s. Although called 'too vague', the new name is vague as well (could be anywhere in the region) and the name Blankenburg Tunnel was well-known in the region even before it was built.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Oh, and it gets better: 

They propose the name 'Holland Tunnel' for the Aalkeet Tunnel (could it BE more vague?) and the name.... _Flardingaplein_ for the A20/A24 interchange. Flardinga being some old name for Vlaardingen. 

Luckily the municipalities are not involved with the signage plans and names for interchanges, so it is unlikely that 'knooppunt Flardingaplein' becomes a reality. 

https://www.vlaardingen.nl/Bestuur_...iten_van_het_college_van_BenW_31_oktober_2017


----------



## Slagathor

Why don't they just call it Maassluis tunnel? The only crossing that currently exists over there is the Maassluis-Rozenburg ferry. Everyone knows Maassluis, which has subway stops with the name in it as well... It's obvious.

I guess they're just trying to forge a tradition of stupid names. "Benelux tunnel" is dumb as well, most people would think that's near the border with Belgium somewhere if they'd never heard of it before.


----------



## Attus

In Germany there was a free day today (500th anniversary of reformation). As usually on days which are free in Germany but not in the Netherlands, there was a huge shopping traffic from D to NL. 
This afternoon there was only one single congestion in North Rhine Westphalia (which is pretty unusual), A52 from Mönchengladbach to Roermond. Congestion length was over 10 km, delay over an hour. (In Roermond there is a large shopping center).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, the Designer Outlet Roermond. A52/N280 is a set bottleneck if there is a holiday in Germany that is not one in the Netherlands. Enschede also reported a huge gridlock around the inner city due to visiting Germans. 

There are a fairly large number of public holidays in Germany that are not celebrated in the Netherlands;
* 1 May / Labor Day
* Fronleichnam (Corpus Christi)
* Maria Himmelfart (Assumption Day)
* Tag der Deutschen Einheit (unification day, obviously not in NL)
* Reformationstag (Reformation Day)
* Allerheiligen (All Saints)

These are mostly catholic holidays. Though southern Netherlands is traditionally catholic, these are not public holidays in the Netherlands.


----------



## Attus

^^ Public holidays in Germany are partially controlled on regional level (Bundesland). 
There is a list e.g. HERE, you can see that e.g. Assumption is a holiday only in Bavaria and Saarland, Corpus Christi in some catholic regions, etc.
If you click on 2018, you'll see Reformation Day is usually only a holiday in mainly lutheran regions, in Eastern Germany. I think no one does a one day trip from Saxony to the Netherlands ;-) Perhaps to Poland  This year, because of the 500th anniversary, this day was a public holiday in whole Germany.


----------



## aswnl

The problem is not public holidays, but the truckban on motorways on those days. That is absurd.


----------



## Nikkodemo

:drool:


Trebol de autopista by Victor, en Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Hoogeveen (A28/A37/N48)


----------



## Ni3lS

aswnl said:


> The problem is not public holidays, but the truckban on motorways on those days. That is absurd.


A truckban is a blessing if you need to drive across Germany, trust me. 

Today is another national holiday here


----------



## Attus

^^ The main issue is, again, that trucks may run in the Netherlands, but not in Germany (in some cases they are banned only in NRW, but it does not help them very much). So they drive to the border and try to stop there. Of course at not any border crossing is there a parking lot having the needed capacity: it is only needed in 5-6 days a year.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yep, the Sunday driving bans are managable, but two consecutive days in the middle of the workweek where trucks are banned are a real problem, yesterday there were reports of trucks parking on the shoulder near rest areas 100 kilometers before the border. 

It messes up logistics across Europe, this week has 8 days of which 4 have a driving ban. That means billions of euros worth of freight cannot be moved. With Germany's central location in Europe, this impacts logistics and supply lines beyond just the border region.


----------



## renroz

Nikkodemo said:


> :drool:
> 
> 
> Trebol de autopista by Victor, en Flickr


Yes! But it isn't great to ride on. Pretty small from Meppel to Assen. 
But the looks are great :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A28 runs through a TOTSO: Turn Off To Stay On. In other words, traffic from Zwolle to Groningen and vice versa has to exit the mainline to follow that route. 

Historically, traffic following A28 was the dominant traffic flow, as A37 became a two-lane road at Hoogeveen. However present traffic volumes are similar for through traffic from Zwolle to Emmen and Zwolle to Groningen (and vice versa). So there is not a dominant traffic flow anymore. 

Ideally there would be an interchange similar to Hattemerbroek (A28/A50) where Zwolle to Groningen traffic would get a semi-direct two-lane connector ramp and the Groningen to Zwolle ramp would be expanded to two lanes. 

The Hoogeveen interchange was once planned to connect to A48 from Arnhem as well, making it one of the most important interchanges in the north and east of the Netherlands. However A48 was never built as intended. Only the short A348 near Arnhem (90 kilometers away from Hoogeveen) was ultimately built. 

A48 was planned from Arnhem to Zutphen to Deventer to Ommen to Hoogeveen.


----------



## renroz

Such a shame they didn't build it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Eastern Netherlands lacks a good north-south route. I think A48 is not needed in its entirety, though Zutphen - Deventer needs an upgrade. But a motorway from Almelo to Hoogeveen would link the north with Twente with a faster and (much) safer link.


----------



## Ni3lS

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yep, the Sunday driving bans are managable, but two consecutive days in the middle of the workweek where trucks are banned are a real problem, yesterday there were reports of trucks parking on the shoulder near rest areas 100 kilometers before the border.


That's insane. But to be fair, on any given day during the week trucks are parked in emergency lanes near rest areas on the A67. During business hours the A67 and parts of the A58 are heavily congested.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ maybe allowing Sunday work would mean less trucks on the other days...


----------



## da_scotty

ChrisZwolle said:


> Eastern Netherlands lacks a good north-south route. I think A48 is not needed in its entirety, though Zutphen - Deventer needs an upgrade. But a motorway from Almelo to Hoogeveen would link the north with Twente with a faster and (much) safer link.


Maybe a "gelbe autostrasse" like road like we see further (north)east would be a good solution.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Rijksweg 64*

_Rijksweg_ 64 in 1962. Rijksweg 64 was the number for what is presently A2 between Den Bosch and Eindhoven. Rijksweg 64 was widened to a four lane divided highway between 1955 and 1962, however it was not a motorway. It wasn't until the 1990s that this road was upgraded to motorway standards. It presently handles 110,000 vehicles per day on six lanes.


----------



## da_scotty

Was there a reason this 2x2 with big trees in the middle was so populair. The A50, A2, A65 and A67 all had this set-up. Was this in tune with the time or something else?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think they used to stand on the side of the road, but when the road was twinned to four lanes, they built a carriageway on the other side of the trees. So the trees end up in the median. 

Of course they are a hazard, as they stand in the obstacle-free zone. Technically they should either be cut down or have crash barriers placed in front of them.


----------



## verfmeer

The left cariageway is the original single cariageway road, you can see the mature trees on the picture. They simply added the right cariageway and changed the lines.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Rotterdamsebaan, The Hague*

The cutting head of the tunnel boring machine for the Victory Boogie-Woogie Tunnel in The Hague.


Inhijsen graafwiel by Rotterdamsebaan, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N31 Harlingen*

The below-grade N31 through Harlingen will open to traffic tomorrow morning. It appears that it will open with one lane each way. No more waiting for the drawbridge!









Via: https://twitter.com/ronald_jonge_75/status/926438109432172544


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N31 Harlingen II*

Some more photos of the new N31 in Harlingen.


JDR_2524 Asfalteren by N31 Harlingen, on Flickr


JDR_2540 Asfalteren by N31 Harlingen, on Flickr


JDR_ 0005 by N31 Harlingen, on Flickr


----------



## TM_Germany

what's the yellow paint for?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Traffic uses only one carriageway for now, so there is opposing traffic. And it is still a construction zone. The yellow lines accentuate that fact. It's uncommon though.


----------



## MrAronymous

There was a long-time rumor that yellow paint supposedly is easier to remove and that's why they use it as temporary lane markings at construction zones. But it's simply because it stands out more. They often use some kind of thermoplast which they can remove with high pressure water.


----------



## Wilhem275

It looks more like Harlingen, Texas


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are several types of road markings;

* thermoplast: most common on high-volume roads. Very visible, drains water, very durable (7-10 years). Also expensive and cannot be removed without damaging the road surface. Not commonly used for temporary configurations.
* tape markings. Common in construction zones. Very reflective, but not very durable, may become loose. Can be removed without damage to road surface.
* drip paint: very reflective, fairly durable, but not commonly used in the Netherlands compared to e.g. Poland. 
* paint: various forms exist. Reflectivity not the best. Best suited for low-speed, low volume roads, or temporary lane markings. Often used when the final wearing course is not yet applied. Poor durability (1-2 years at best).


----------



## Suburbanist

Better do this way instead of how some places do it (permanent marking that then requires black paint over hno


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A24 Blankenburg Tunnel, Rotterdam*

The DBFM contract to construct the A24 and Blankenburg Tunnel west of Rotterdam has been conditionally awarded to a consortium lead by Ballast Nedam on 20 July 2017. The losing consortium led by BAM lodged a complaint about it. 

The losing consortium made an offer with a net value of € 536 million, which is considerably lower than the € 577.5 million offer by the winning consortium. However, contracts are not awarded based on price, but on 'best value procurement'. The Ballast Nedam offer had a better construction plan, because they planned to use only two immersed segments. This resulted in a higher score for risk management, and ultimately won them the contract.

Today the judge issued a verdict, dismissing the complaint by BAM. They could go into a further appeal but this is uncommon in the Netherlands. Losing consortia rarely win these cases.


----------



## Suburbanist

The country needs more competition for big infrastructure project instead of the usual 3/4 that dominate the whole thing.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

These large complex contracts with a value of € 500 million - € 1 billion usually attract only 3 or 4 competitors. 

Only a few large construction companies able to handle the design work for such complex projects and being able to finance them upfront are in the market for such projects. 

They are planning to award the A27 expansion into two contracts for that reason. It is seen as too big to handle if it would be a single contract worth € 1 billion+ with 4 complex bridge replacements.

Usually only Dutch construction companies win these large DBFM contracts. The foreign involvement is usually a partner, subcontractor or the finance section of the contract. For example Vinci is involved at the Rijnland Route project near Leiden. But this is an exception.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A27 at Breda:


Autosnelweg A27, Breda by Etienne M, on Flickr


----------



## Turf

This Dutch page contains a video with the current situation on the N31 Harlingen.
http://www.lc.nl/friesland/Nieuwe-N31-even-wennen-maar-wel-prachtig-video-22642439.html


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## ChrisZwolle

*N366 / N391 Ter Apel*

A new interchange is being built at the N366 / N391 roundabout near the town of Ter Apel. It is located right on the border of Groningen and Drenthe provinces.










Via: https://twitter.com/DeRooWegen1932/status/927903459663368194


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N300 Buitenring Parkstad Limburg*

Two new sections of the regional expressway around Heerlen open to traffic soon.

10 November: a 2.4 km section around Brunssum (N276 to N274).
17 November: a 3.0 km section near Kerkrade (Gaiazoo to Avantis roundabout)


----------



## Suburbanist

*Police speed traps catch 50% more motorists this summer*



> This summer, 550,000 people were fined for speeding after being caught in a police speed trap – a rise of nearly 50% on 2016, the AD said on Monday.
> 
> Much of the police effort focused on notorious parts of the highway network, including the A13 between Rotterdam and The Hague, the A4, A6, A7 and the N302, a provincial road which crosses Flevoland province.
> 
> ‘We’ve had various problems over the past two years, as well as software issues, but we are now operating at full strength,’ national police force spokesman Egbert-Jan van Hasselt told the AD.
> 
> One reason so many people drive too fast is that modern cars are quiet and ‘you hardly notice how fast you are driving,’ Van Hasselt said. ‘It’s very easy to go 10 kph over the speed limit.’


Source


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They say how going 10 km/h over the limit can be very dangerous in school zones, streets, etc. And where are they installing all those speed traps? On the motorway, the safest road type there is! 

It's just a money grab, they attempt to justify it under the name of 'safety' but I doubt if they really believe in that themselves. The vast majority of speeding tickets are for very small offenses, mostly on motorways.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N300 Buitenring Parkstad Limburg*

This video was taken just prior to opening the new expressway around Brunssum. It's a short section, just over 2 kilometers. This portion is also signed as N300, so that'll be the number for the entire 26 kilometer expressway around Heerlen. 

Previously, N300 was only a 5 kilometer road between N281 and Kerkrade, along the German border.

242105119


----------



## ChrisZwolle

If there are too many destinations, they will split it up onto two signs. This is fairly common with roundabouts as only 2 destinations per branch will already fill up the sign. (6 is considered the maximum amount of destinations on any one sign). 

Unlike traditional motorway signage, where motorists often only have to decide between two possible routes, roundabouts usually have at least three routes and possibly more (as in this case).

Additionally, the size of the sign may also be an issue with roundabout configurations. Normal 'fork' signs would have two arrows, ahead and right. A roundabout needs a sign with destinations left, right and ahead. That would result in a huge sign (with wind resistance becoming an issue). So they are usually split up onto two separate signs.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2/A9 knooppunt Holendrecht*

The new configuration at the Holendrecht motorway interchange is now in use, including the new long flyover.

But they had to do an emergency repair this morning because some of the asphalt came loose. It was a bit wet and cold for paving operations.


----------



## Red85

ChrisZwolle said:


> There are plans to upgrade provincial road N247 in North Holland province. Several variants have been made for the crossing at the town of Broek in Waterland.
> 
> The most extensive variant is a four lane tunnel with an 80 km/h speed limit:


BUILD IT! 

Anything less in that than place will be rubbish and a waste of efford.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A27 Merwede Bridge*

In October 2016, the Merwede Bridge of A27 at Gorinchem was closed for all trucks due to emergency repairs.

They published an evaluation of the decision making and crisis management. I won't go into detail about that, but the facts leading up to the closure are interesting.

Due to the planned expansion of A27, a bridge inspection programme and static calculations started in 2016. It was already known that the bridge wasn't in a great condition and trucks over 50 tons (convoi exceptionnel) would have to be banned. 

Bridge inspections were performed in early October 2016. On 10 October, at 23:00 hours, a bridge engineer of TNO calls up the Rijkswaterstaat engineer responsible for maintenance, with the news that one connection is in very poor condition and that a truck ban may need to be in place before the morning rush hour. They decided that there was time to do additional static calculations before traffic management would have to be in place. 

The engineer at TNO performed a crack growth analysis. The results are in at 1:30 a.m. and shows that the connection has a safe service life _of only six days_. Because it was not known if that connection was inspected and calculated on 10 October or earlier, it was decided to take no chances and immediately ban all truck traffic before the morning rush hour. The risk for deformation and subsequent collapse of the bridge was too great. 

Traffic management was then called up to get the truck ban in place before the morning rush hour. They had to install signs. Initially, signs banning vehicles over 3.5 tons were installed. They found out these could not be legally enforced without a portable weigh station on scene. They then installed general signs banning all trucks and buses. This had a significant impact due to the high truck volume on the bridge: 18,000 trucks per day.

With the trucks banned, the repairs could start immediately. They also had to finish inspections on less critical parts of the bridge. The bridge reopened to all truck traffic on 9 December after a 2 month closure.


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ I'm no expert, but it seems unlikely that static calculations can give failure times so precise as "six days". To me, it sounds like trying to predict earthquakes...


----------



## keber

Yeah, it is really strange prediction. There are no such exact formulas in usual statical equations. Also there is quite big safety factor included usually.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Evidently they can calculate how fast a crack grows given the input of traffic volumes, speed, etc. 

It seems like it was a fracture critical connection of the bridge, I haven't seen any photos of what it is exactly.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Rotterdamsebaan, The Hague*

Late November aerial photos of the 'Rotterdamsebaan' project in The Hague.


Sfeerimpressie Knooppunt Ypenburg – eind november 2017 by Rotterdamsebaan, on Flickr


Sfeerimpressie werkterrein Vlietzone – eind november 2017 by Rotterdamsebaan, on Flickr


Sfeerimpressie werkterrein Binckhorst – eind november 2017 by Rotterdamsebaan, on Flickr


----------



## Theijs

Map of the Dutch roads in metro style.


----------



## Grzegorz.Janoszka

Theijs said:


> Map of the Dutch roads in metro style.


I see it is not really up to date.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*traffic safety*

The share of traffic fatalities, sorted by speed limit.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Regional agreements have been made to fund road projects and start procedures / studies for new projects.

For an official study to start, 75% of the estimated required funding must be reserved in the infrastructure fund. This prevents them spending money to study projects which have no funding in place.

* € 430 million has been reserved for the A2 expansion between Deil (A15) and Vught (A65). This is currently a six lane motorway (with 8 lanes around Den Bosch). It is expected that the actual expansion will focus on the Deil - Empel segment, which has two major river crossings that cannot be expanded (no shoulders). The total cost is estimated at € 570 million.

* procedures will start to expand A58 between Tilburg and Breda. An official decision will be taken in 2018. The cost is estimated at € 70 million, this is a simple widening across the median.

* a study will start in 2018 for A15 between Papendrecht (N3) and Gorinchem (A27). Funding has been raised to € 330 million.

* procedures will start in early 2019 to expand N50 to 2x2 lanes at Kampen. This is a cheap project but funding was removed in earlier budget cuts.

* a study will start in 2018 for A28 between Amersfoort and Zwolle, which is shown to become a bottleneck in the national capacity analysis.

* € 12.5 million will be available for the N35 upgrade at Raalte.

These are in addition to many other projects which are already funded or in study.


----------



## Turf

What is the plan for Raalte? There was already something about replacing a traffic light by a viaduct. Is that this or is it something new?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They plan to replace a traffic light with an overpass, evidently with 4 lanes but not much details are actually published. They also plan to build a tunnel for N348 under the railroad, which makes this plan rather expensive (some € 50 million total). Raalte is quite a bottleneck during rush hour with frequent 10 - 15 minute delays.










N35 was built mostly during the 1950s with design standards of the time, which means a single lane for through traffic at three traffic lights, driveway access, crossovers, etc. They worked when traffic volumes were around 5,000 - 10,000, but today it carries up to 20,000 vehicles per day. € 15 million is budgeted for local safety improvements (such as building new intersections and service roads). 

The long-term plan calls for a four lane, 100 km/h expressway between Zwolle and Wierden. So far the following projects are in development;

* Zwolle - Wijthmen: under construction, will open 2018
* Wijthmen - Raalte: no plans other than local safety improvements
* Raalte: apparently only the west side is under development.
* Raalte - Nijverdal: no plans, though calls for a bypass of Mariënheem
* Nijverdal: a new tunnel has been built to bypass their main street
* Nijverdal - Wierden: currently in procedure. The draft EIA was signed last month.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The first measurable snow of the season fell in the Netherlands today. They have forecast more serious snowfall on Sunday, with up to 10 centimeters.

Here's A9:









According to this website: https://rijkswaterstaatstrooit.nl/ they have not treated A9 over the past six hours which seems odd.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A1, A12 and A50 in the Arnhem / Apeldoorn area have completely iced over after some 10 - 15 cm of snow fell. 

They are going to battle the ice with this 'lava storm'. It has a plow, a broom and a hot brine mix sprayed onto the pavement. It can also spray under vehicles. It is specifically designed to battle sheets of ice.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4/A12 Knooppunt Prins Clausplein*

Snow has made it impossible for traffic to climb one of the direct connectors at the Prins Clausplein Interchange near The Hague.


----------



## da_scotty

Was fun on the motorway yesterday. Average speed being 50kmh max, with some stretches as low as 25kmh. Spotted a lot of snow ploughs, however it's stunning to see how bad some drivers handle the snow.

90% really handle it well, driving convoy style on two lanes at 40/50/60 depending conditions. However being overtaken by cars doing 100 in the left lane (uncleared) with 10cm with snow still on the car are the other 10%, those people should really see their licences revoked.


----------



## 8166UY

I've also seen people driving over the normal speed limit here within the city while whatsapping. With this slippery slow. Either they are suicidal, or idiots or just loving manslaughter. I really don't know how, but apparently they were able to reach a biological mature age with that kind of behaviour.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

A few pics from yesterday afternoon.
Although the trip from Alexander in Rotterdam to The Hague took was slow the traffic was generally moving well at between 20-50kph. Only at Rijswijk/ Plaspoelpolder did the traffic become stationary.

Hoofdweg, Alexander, Rotterdam









A13, Overschie 









A4, Plaspoelpolder


----------



## The Polwoman

^^ indeed the support for relocation is very low. The open polders are a part of the Groene Hart region which should be kept free from any new construction (although the landscape is slowly being destroyed by hideous industrial areas). Widening on the existing alignment isn't easy but the best option.


----------



## g.spinoza

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Netherlands uses thermoplast road markings on most roads. They are very durable and last for 7 - 10 years, so about the same time as a maintenance cycle for important roads. Thermoplast also acts like a rumble strip.
> 
> I took this close-up photo on N307 at Dronten earlier this month. It has two thick thermoplast lines, green paint in the middle and reflective cat's eyes. This is the standard for single carriageway 100 km/h roads. Most roads don't have the green paint.


Thanks for your answer.
Are there any downsides on the use of thermoplasts? Why aren't they standard all over Europe (at least)?


----------



## Suburbanist

g.spinoza said:


> Thanks for your answer.
> *Are there any downsides on the use of thermoplasts? *Why aren't they standard all over Europe (at least)?


Some:
(1) cost 
(2) they are slippery for motorbikes with narrow tires immediately after rain starts
(3) it is costly to remove it in case of signaling change


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N233 Rhenen*

The Rhine River Crossing at Rhenen is a two-lane bridge built 1957. It was originally a rail bridge, the bridge piers date back to 1883. Present-day traffic volumes overwhelm the bridge's capacity, with 32,000 vehicles per day. 

A capacity expansion has long been planned. Initially the idea was to utilize the existing bridge deck for a 3 lane configuration, with one reversible lane and a new cheap span for cyclists. The cost for this project was estimated at € 25 million.

However, they found that a three lane configuration was not feasible. On 18 December, all parties involved recommended a four lane alternative with a bridge deck replacement. That would cost € 66 million. Only € 31 million of funding has been identified so far.


----------



## 54°26′S 3°24′E

Suburbanist said:


> Some:
> (1) cost
> (2) they are slippery for motorbikes with narrow tires immediately after rain starts
> (3) it is costly to remove it in case of signaling change


(4) Maybe also an environmental impact. A lot of the plastic may end up in the oceans as small particles, although tire wear is probably more important. 

Thermoplastics is standard in many other countries as well, eg in Norway. The lifetime in the Nordic countries are of course far shorter than in Netherlands due to increased wear from snow - plows, studded tires, snow - chains and probably frost itself. Cat-eyes are for the same reasons not used at all.


----------



## da_scotty

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Rhine River Crossing at Rhenen is a two-lane bridge built 1957. It was originally a rail bridge, the bridge piers date back to 1883. Present-day traffic volumes overwhelm the bridge's capacity, with 32,000 vehicles per day.
> 
> A capacity expansion has long been planned. Initially the idea was to utilize the existing bridge deck for a 3 lane configuration, with one reversible lane and a new cheap span for cyclists. The cost for this project was estimated at € 25 million.
> 
> However, they found that a three lane configuration was not feasible. On 18 December, all parties involved recommended a four lane alternative with a bridge deck replacement. That would cost € 66 million. Only € 31 million of funding has been identified so far.


If you de-facto build a new bridge. Why not do it well and extend the A30 To Rhenen, Tiel and Oss. Creating a much needed extra motorway connection across the Rijn/Maas/Waal.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Traffic congestion*

Preliminary figures show an increase of traffic congestion of 0.6% in 2017. This is a significant decline from +12% in 2016, despite continued traffic growth of circa 2 billion vehicle kilometers on the motorway network. 

The worst congestion spot is A20 eastbound at the Terbregseplein interchange (A16). 

The second worst spot is A4 northbound near Leiden, which was expanded to six lanes, but is the worst-planned project ever in the Netherlands, because they built a stupid local/express system with 1+2+2+1 lanes. Congestion appeared immediately after the project was completed, there was significantly less congestion during construction when they had a temporary 3+3 setup. In addition, traffic congestion also grew substantially on nearby A44. There are plans to expand A4 again. 

The third spot is A20 eastbound at Moordrecht, though congestion has decreased with the new road infrastructure opening to traffic. Still, it means that #1 and #3 are on the same motorway, in the same direction, only a few kilometers apart. 

The fourth spot is A1 eastbound at Eembrugge. Traffic congestion also decreased at this location because they started construction (take note, Germany) and made 3 lanes available already from the start of construction. This spot will likely disappear from the top 50 next year once the project is completed. 

The fifth spot is on A27 southbound at Noordeloos, where traffic congestion dramatically increased by 37% in a single year. An expansion is planned here. 

The biggest decline in traffic congestion is A1 eastbound at Diemen, where the expansion project was completed and traffic congestion decreased by 95%.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Delft - Schiedam*

The missing link of A4 between Delft and Schiedam opened to traffic two years ago. Having a capacity of 2x2 lanes and a projected traffic volume of 117,000 - 128,000 vehicles per day by 2020-2025, it was clear from the beginning that it was underdimensioned. 

Some design optimalization was worked out during the later stages of procedures, especially for northbound traffic where the projected I/C value dropped >1.0 to 0.7 (i.e., from severe congestion to limited congestion) at the Kethel Tunnel entrance.

A problematic spot however is A4 southbound at the Kethel Tunnel. The tunnel has a metering system that avoids congestion in the tunnel, but moves it upstream. As a result, A4 southbound entered #10 congestion spot in the Netherlands this year. 

There are two bottlenecks here. First, the capacity of A4 itself. It should've been built with six or even eight lanes, but that was politically not feasible, resulting in a substandard design. Second, the A4/A20 merge before the Benelux Tunnel is a bottleneck, which activates the tunnel metering system.

The Benelux Tunnel bottleneck will be addressed with the construction of the Blankenburg Tunnel (A24), however it will take another 5 years before that is completed. So things won't improve a lot until then. But at least there are now two motorways between The Hague and Rotterdam, so there is a choice. Congestion decreased dramatically on A13 since A4 opened.


----------



## EdiPires

*[NL] The Netherlands | road infrastructure • autosnelwegen*

I have often driven on the A4 between Rotterdam and The Hague in both directions, despite the 2x2 layout (especially southbound) the traffic flow was always decent even with heavy traffic, never was slowed down by any jam whatsoever. Even if the day comes that it could need an upgrade, they've still left some space to make an extra lane in both directions. 
Oh, and let's not forget that Delft has a little Ringroad of his own


----------



## verfmeer

^^ When did you drive over it? In rush hour there are quite some traffic jams at the Den Haag-Zuid exit where the road narrows from 3 to 2 lanes.


----------



## EdiPires

*[NL] The Netherlands | road infrastructure • autosnelwegen*



verfmeer said:


> ^^ When did you drive over it? In rush hour there are quite some traffic jams at the Den Haag-Zuid exit where the road narrows from 3 to 2 lanes.




The last time I’ve driven there was last November, Northbound from R'dam to Delft, and Southbound from Den Haag to R'dam in my return drive to Luxembourg, but at that time it was in the evening (around 18-19h).


----------



## KIWIKAAS

> A problematic spot however is A4 southbound at the Kethel Tunnel. The tunnel has a metering system that avoids congestion in the tunnel, but moves it upstream. As a result, A4 southbound entered #10 congestion spot in the Netherlands this year.


Yes, I,ve seen this a couple of times the last months with the southbound tunnel entrance closed and the traffic banked up to Delft.
First time I saw it, I thought there was some kind of malfunction.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N444 Voorhout*

N444 is a short provincial road in South Holland. It links A44 to N206 north of Leiden, so it carries more traffic than just local traffic, traffic volumes range from 16,000 - 18,000.

A set of traffic lights over a canal in Voorhout has been replaced by a turbo roundabout this year.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*2017: year in review*

2017 wraps up tonight. Let's see what has been achieved with Dutch motorways in 2017.

* 19 January: a large contract was awarded to reconstruct A10 along the south side of Amsterdam. It will be expanded to 12 lanes.
* 30 January: a large contract was awarded to construct an expressway south of Leiden, planned since the 1950s.
* 16 February: the second stage of the A6 expansion through Almere starts. The motorway will be widened to 8 lanes
* 8 March: the final approval for the A15 extension near Arnhem was signed. The motorway will be extended across the Rhine River to A12.
* 7 April: the old A9 through Badhoevedorp is decommissioned after 50 years of service.
* 10 April: the new A9 around Badhoevedorp opens in its entirety, with 2x3 lanes.
* 16 May: opening of 8 lanes of A50 across the Waal River near Nijmegen.
* 29 May: reconstruction of the A1/A6 interchange at Muiderberg is completed. Traffic congestion is reduced by 95%


* 1 July: the SOS telephone network along the motorway network is decommissioned.
* 1 July: the A1/A27 expansion Utrecht - Hilversum - Amersfoort officially begins.
* 20 July: a € 1 billion contract for the construction of A24 west of Rotterdam has been awarded
* 4 October: the reversible lane of A1/6 between Almere and Amsterdam opens to traffic, expanding capacity to 12 lanes.
* 12 October: the new Joure interchange (A6/A7) opens to traffic
* 25 October: Melanie Schultz ends her 7 year term as minister of transport. She was the longest-serving minister since World War II.
* 7 November: opening of the new N31 through Harlingen.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*traffic jams in 2017*

The final data over 2017 shows that congestion did not increase overall, compared to a 12% growth in 2016. 

Here's an overview of the worst bottlenecks, using the 'kilometer minutes' metric, by the VID.

You can see that the top 3 bottlenecks really stand out, #1 and #2 have twice as much congestion as #10. The two A20 bottlenecks are only some 10 kilometers downstream from each other.


----------



## Suburbanist

An old plan to rebuild Amsterdam outside the "canal ring" 



Balkanada said:


>


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Back in the 1950s, people moved to outer neighborhoods and suburbs, with a rapidly increasing car ownership. However, for some time, most functions for business, shopping, leisure and employment remained in the city center. So plans were drawn up to build extensive city center infrastructure. Canals became roads and squares became parking lots.

Later on, society decentralized. Parking garages were constructed, car-free roads or districts were implemented and ring roads were built. This drastically reduced the need to have extensive road infrastructure in the city core, compared to North America and the odd European city. 

You can still see this in Amsterdam. A10 encircles the urban core, it's a fairly small ring road (30 km). Traffic volumes fluctuate between 120,000 and 200,000 vehicles per day. But not much of that traffic actually goes into the city center, where there are mostly only two-lane roads and narrow streets. It disperses across other motorways or the urban road network within 1-2 km of A10.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A truck has caused significant damage to the Zeeburg Tunnel entrance of A10 on the east side of Amsterdam.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

One of those toy trucks blocks 5 lanes on A2:


----------



## Wilhem275

ChrisZwolle said:


> A truck has caused significant damage to the Zeeburg Tunnel entrance of A10 on the east side of Amsterdam.


It fell on it? :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

g.spinoza said:


> That's true, but at least in Italy, diesel bans are entirely driven by PM readings. I don't know how it's done in NL.


During poor air quality episodes, PM levels generally spike while NO2 levels stay more or less the same. PM levels are influenced by weather patterns (inversion) whereas NO2 levels are mostly due to vehicle exhaust, which is fairly uniform across the year.

You can see that in the printscreen that I posted, while PM10 levels are only 19 µg/m³ on average, there are 7 days per year where they exceed the 40 µg/m³ limit. NO2 levels do not follow this pattern. 

Bad air quality episodes are often combated with traffic restrictions, but this is pointless because traffic is not the source of the temporary elevated levels of PM and doesn't really contribute that much to PM levels overall. So banning license plate ranges or reducing speed limits on motorways during poor air quality is entirely symbolic. You can see in Paris for example, that during traffic restrictions, NO2 levels go down (less diesel traffic) while PM remains more or less the same, only declining after a weather pattern shift.


----------



## MichiH

ChrisZwolle said:


> Traffic contribution to PM levels is fairly limited, as PM levels are largely due to background concentration.


You can only get rid of PM emmission from transportation if you ban cars at all because tyres and brakes also produce a lot of PM - even e vehicles!



ChrisZwolle said:


> However traffic contribution for NO2 levels is considerably higher and this is *almost entirely attributed to diesel engines*.


True for "old" diesel engines but not true for modern diesel engines of the latest version.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Overall NOx emissions have gone down significantly, resulting in far fewer places where the 40 µg/m³ limits are exceeded, but traffic is still the main contributor of elevated NO2 levels, and that is still mostly attributed to diesel engines. 

Most locations with air quality being only slightly better than the 40 µg/m³ limit in the Netherlands are due to NO2 concentrations, not PM10. As you can see in that printscreen, the PM10 levels along A4 are only 19 µg/m³, significantly below both the EU and WHO recommended limit, despite the 200,000 vehicles per day there.


----------



## Suburbanist

g.spinoza said:


> So just buy one in Germany and ride with German plates.


You must register you car with the Dutch road authority if you become an official resident of the Netherlands, and that must be done in a relatively short period (I'm not sure exactly how long, it is a matter or months).

Since everything (incluidng working contracts, bank accounts etC) is tied up with your BSN and GBA, there is no real way to keep driving a foreign-plated car for long that is registered to your name.


----------



## g.spinoza

Suburbanist said:


> You must register you car with the Dutch road authority if you become an official resident of the Netherlands, and that must be done in a relatively short period (I'm not sure exactly how long, it is a matter or months).
> 
> Since everything (incluidng working contracts, bank accounts etC) is tied up with your BSN and GBA, there is no real way to keep driving a foreign-plated car for long that is registered to your name.


I know, I know, I was just being provocative.

But is it enforced? I mean, an Italian friend of mine had his Italian registered car in Germany for 6 or 7 years, and he was never checked.


----------



## Theijs

g.spinoza said:


> I know, I know, I was just being provocative.
> 
> 
> 
> But is it enforced? I mean, an Italian friend of mine had his Italian registered car in Germany for 6 or 7 years, and he was never checked.



In the Netherlands they can reinforce quite easily, e.g. when you register for a parking license. By Dutch law, you are as Dutch citizens required to drive a car with Dutch license plates. For border regions special rules and plates apply.


----------



## vespafrederic

Theijs said:


> In the Netherlands they can reinforce quite easily, e.g. when you register for a parking license. By Dutch law, you are as Dutch citizens required to drive a car with Dutch license plates. For border regions special rules and plates apply.


What happens if you are an EU citizen with non Dutch nationality driving your car from your country? (German citizen, living in the Netherlands and driving a car with a German licence plate?


----------



## MichiH

^^ Your residence counts! For instance, I read than Hungarians had to pay a fine in Germany because they lived in Germany but the car was still registered in Hungary.

Edit: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/vehicles/registration/formalities/index_en.htm



> Wherever you live in the EU, you must register your car in the country where you have your permanent residence.


----------



## Theijs

*[NL] The Netherlands | road infrastructure • autosnelwegen*



MichiH said:


> ^^ Your residence counts!


As the simple rule is: you pay road tax in the country you live.


----------



## Suburbanist

People who keep cars registered in other countries do so under the name of somebody else. They can run into trouble if they ever have an insurance event. Furthermore, they cannot apply to parking permits, which are needed in many places where paying parking by the hour is prohibitively expensive in the long run. Dutch insurers will not sell insurance for cars registered in other countries and regularly used in the Netherlands, and I doubt insurers anywhere would do that.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You don't need a parking permit in the vast majority of residential areas. 

A block from my house there is a dude with Belgian plates for years. Evidently he gets away with it.


----------



## Slagathor

None of this explains the insane amount of Eastern European plates I see in very densely populated parts of The Hague with parking permits and prohibitively expensive paid parking. I don't know what's going on there, but legal it is not. 

I always assumed the car is registered to grandma in Poland. But you guys are saying that if you do that, you can't get a parking permit? I seriously doubt that. Because these people are parking in neighborhoods where you either need a permit or a million dollars.


----------



## vespafrederic

I think the key is that cars are regisztered for somebody who lives in a different country. There is also a possibility that the car is leased also.


----------



## Shenkey

Suburbanist said:


> I think taxes should be conditional on weight and emissions (not only of CO2). The tax on weight should be exponential to the power of 3 (meaning car B twice the weight of car A pay 8 times more tax), to reflect the much severe damage done by trucks on pavement compared to passenger cars.


They should also count the passengers.


----------



## Kanadzie

Suburbanist said:


> People who keep cars registered in other countries do so under the name of somebody else. They can run into trouble if they ever have an insurance event. Furthermore, they cannot apply to parking permits, which are needed in many places where paying parking by the hour is prohibitively expensive in the long run. Dutch insurers will not sell insurance for cars registered in other countries and regularly used in the Netherlands, and I doubt insurers anywhere would do that.


In Canada cars are registered provincially, and if you move, you're supposed to register based on your residence. 

But I've never had a car insurer ask me anything about registration. Only "what date did you buy the car", but never anything even the plate number :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N18 Groenlo - Eibergen*

The signage for the new N18 between Groenlo and Eibergen. This section will open to traffic within 3-4 weeks.

N18 will get exit numbers.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Rotterdam 1968*

Aerial photos of Rotterdam interchanges in 1968.

1. The end of A4 at Pernis. This is where the Benelux interchange was built a few years later. No sign of A15 on this photo. You can also see the Pernis refinery and the Benelux Tunnel.









2. Kleinpolderplein, where A13 and A20 would later meet with flyovers. You can see that A13 was already a six lane motorway at that time.









3. The A16 Rotterdam-Prins Alexander exit. This is where the Terbregseplein interchange would be constructed a few years later. No sign of A20 in this photo.









4. The Kethelplein interchange (A4/A20). The extension to the lower left (north) wasn't completed until 2015, almost 48 years after this photo was taken.


----------



## Surel

Slagathor said:


> None of this explains the insane amount of Eastern European plates I see in very densely populated parts of The Hague with parking permits and prohibitively expensive paid parking. I don't know what's going on there, but legal it is not.
> 
> I always assumed the car is registered to grandma in Poland. But you guys are saying that if you do that, you can't get a parking permit? I seriously doubt that. Because these people are parking in neighborhoods where you either need a permit or a million dollars.


They just spend the on the parking what they save on the road taxes. 

Maybe there are some constructions going on with car registered on legal entities? I did not look into it, but it could be possible to drive a car registered on a e.g. Polish company? Maybe another rules apply then.

Secondly, if it would be just The Hague, then maybe diplomats are busy bees...


----------



## Slagathor

Diplomats get their own Dutch plates, they start with the two letters CD for Corps Diplomatique.

There's an old joke in The Hague that you can always jaywalk, except when there's a car with a CD license plate approaching because they could run you down and then claim diplomatic immunity.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

According to the government's website, you can actually own a car with foreign plates in the Netherlands, as long as you pay taxes. Evidently you do not need to re-register it with Dutch plates.

https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderw...-een-auto-met-een-buitenlands-kenteken-hebben


----------



## sven_engelen

Suburbanist said:


> So they did not build gas stations within the interchange in this case, as they did on several highway junctions?


Whot?! They almost never do that! Only on some interchanges there's a gas station like interchange bodegraven...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

da_scotty said:


> Wasn't that only in the roundabouts?


I think Oudenrijn was the only traffic circle with fuel stations.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Oudenrijn interchange in May 1967, during the reconstruction from a roundabout to a cloverleaf. Traffic was phased around the cloverleaf, a setup known as a 'stuiver'. 









The Haringvliet Bridge (A29) in September 1964. The bridge opened to traffic in July 1964, but was not completed at that time. It was a toll bridge until 1975.


----------



## The Polwoman

-- edit -- _thread had issues after update, answer has already been given_


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A6/A7 Knooppunt Joure*

New aerial photos of the Joure motorway interchange. The main motorway-to-motorway interchange is now in service, with works progressing on the new Joure exit for local traffic. The main works are now in progress to replace a local bridge that couldn't fit within the 130 km/h design standards.

1. Traffic is now being detoured around the Haskerveldweg Viaduct. I'd say this is rather unusual, normally they would replace such an overpass using prefabricated beams and only night / weekend closures. A temporary bypass requires land acquisition.

Lus om viaduct Haskerveldweg by Fotosite Knooppunt Joure, on Flickr

2. A7, looking towards the new interchange. On the left you can see the former alignment of A7.

Nieuwe A7 by Fotosite Knooppunt Joure, on Flickr

3. Thew new motorway-to-motorway interchange, looking north.

Fly-overs by Fotosite Knooppunt Joure, on Flickr

4. The new Joure exit, on the same location as the former roundabout.

Entree Joure en viaduct Geert Knolweg by Fotosite Knooppunt Joure, on Flickr


----------



## Losbp

^^ Seeing Joure I'm now kinda waiting when will Knoppunt Hooipolder A27/A59 gets a makeover..










Never seen this kind of an intersection in my life


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N31 Harlingen*

New aerial photos of N31 in Harlingen. The project is now more or less complete as far as N31 is concerned.


N31 Harl (87) by N31 Harlingen, on Flickr


N31 Harl (76) by N31 Harlingen, on Flickr


N31 Harl (67) by N31 Harlingen, on Flickr



N31 Harl (30) by N31 Harlingen, on Flickr


----------



## Stuu

^^
What was the reason for not building a new route as a bypass to the east of Harlingen? Surely would have been cheaper and less disruptive?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They wanted to preserve the open landscape on the edge of the city. The disruptive factor is limited, it was built at or besides the old two-lane highway, which was elevated on an embankment. The new four lane road is below grade.


----------



## Stuu

Fair enough, thanks


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Spaarndam Tunnel, Amsterdam*

The 800 meter long Spaarndam Tunnel opened to traffic this morning in Amsterdam.









Via: https://twitter.com/schlijper/status/960419543515648000


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Muiden*

A1 at the Muiderberg motorway interchange (A1/A6).


----------



## snowdog

Whoever said Dutch have lane discipline is plainly wrong, bad lane discipline actually causes a traffic jam here from 0:47






A12, from Gouwe to Reeuwwijk


I wish some day overtaking will be allowed on both sides, as people are to lazy and stupid to keep right, which results in this type of rubbish.


----------



## EdiPires

*[NL] The Netherlands | road infrastructure • autosnelwegen*

I think that the police needs to intervene more to make the drivers be aware of their bad habits, especially those left and middle-lane hoggers: 
A few months ago I was driving from Delft to R’dam in the A13, where in front of me a car was cruising in the left lane while the 2 right lanes were empty. Suddenly a police motorcycle arrived, put it's lights on and ”pushed” the driver all the way to the right lane. Then he just turned the lights back off and moved on.
However, this lack of lane discipline isn't just in the Netherlands, it’s everywhere. When driving on 2x3+ lanes, people seem to forget that the motorway rules on a 2x2 lanes are still in force in 2x3, 2x4, etc.


----------



## renroz

In Groningen there are just 2 lanes. When I go south to Almere > Amsterdam i'm like "Whoa, why is everything just driving in the middle? Whats up with that?!!". Even in the evening...


----------



## Slagathor

EdiPires said:


> However, this lack of lane discipline isn't just in the Netherlands, it’s everywhere. When driving on 2x3+ lanes, people seem to forget that the motorway rules on a 2x2 lanes are still in force in 2x3, 2x4, etc.


This exactly. I notice it immediately when I drive from Zeeland on the A58 (2x2) and then enter the Randstad (first 2x3 and then 2x4, sometimes more). 

More than 2 lanes and people immediately drive all over the place.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N18*

The first 4 kilometer section of N18 will open to traffic on 15 February as a super two expressway, between Groenlo and Eibergen.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Paving the final wearing course on N18 - in the snow. No need to wait until April to pave roads...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N391*

A new interchange was constructed on the provincial road N391 between Emmen and Ter Apel, at Roswinkel. It was completed in November 2017, I made a trip to that area yesterday.


N391 Roswinkel-1 by European Roads, on Flickr


N391 Roswinkel-2 by European Roads, on Flickr


N391 Roswinkel-3 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## Suburbanist

Is it allowed to have overtaking on the counterflow allowed near a lane merge on a 100km/h road?


----------



## Suburbanist

For comparison


----------



## Slagathor

Roundabouts function very well as long as everyone uses their indicators properly, but people over the age of 35 never learned how to navigate a roundabout so they swerve around without indicators causing delays for others who have no idea where the fvck they're going.


----------



## Ni3lS

^^ Annoyance number 1 for me, with people that are stuck to the middle lane on the highway coming in as a close second.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Not using indicators are annoying, but they do not materially degrade the function of a roundabout. I prefer them over traffic signals, though I'm not a huge fan of so many roundabouts on rural provincial roads nowadays. Especially if they replaced uncontrolled intersections. On many provincial roads you can hardly drive 80 km/h for more than a few minutes before the next roundabout appears...


----------



## Wilhem275

Well, signalling when leaving the roundabout avoids incoming traffic to stop for nothing, I think it can affect capacity.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Etten-Leur. This can be confusing. The blue signs (D4) are for the minor road which looks like a bike path but is apparently a general public road that crosses right before the main intersection. So the pavement arrows and traffic light arrows are for the main road, while the blue D4 sign is for the minor cross road right before the main intersection.


----------



## Slagathor

That's dreadful. It's fitting that it's in Etten-Leur where the A58 used to be interrupted by traffic signals. The name is synonymous with bad traffic. 



Wilhem275 said:


> Well, signalling when leaving the roundabout avoids incoming traffic to stop for nothing, I think it can affect capacity.


Yes, that. It's selfish not to signal imo.


----------



## g.spinoza

I've seen something just as puzzling yesterday in Turin:

https://www.google.it/maps/@45.0330...9-1fjaAxX91mMFOgZTTQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=it


----------



## snowdog

Suburbanist said:


> @ChrisZwolle: do you have plans to make road videos in the Dutch islands this summer?


I have to visit Vlieland, Terschelling and Ameland occasionally for maintenance to some of our systems there, last time I went there I was in a car without a dashcam, next time I'll go with my own and make some video's.

Texel, even though TESO is our customer, I've never been on and it doesn't really sound like an attractive place for me, though I can make video's of the Teso terrain leading to the ferry sometime I guess. We may have to do work at Teso on the Texel side some time in the future though, so who knows.
I thought Vlieland was the prettiest personally from the 3 I've been to. Permit for car is no problem, basically just pay them and you get a permit.


----------



## MattiG

ChrisZwolle said:


> Etten-Leur. This can be confusing. The blue signs (D4) are for the minor road which looks like a bike path but is apparently a general public road that crosses right before the main intersection. So the pavement arrows and traffic light arrows are for the main road, while the blue D4 sign is for the minor cross road right before the main intersection.


Aaaarrrrgh!


----------



## renroz

Why don't they use these kinda things?


----------



## MrAronymous

Because that would imply there's a road that motor vehicles can use that connects to the ongoing road but you can't drive into. In the Etten-Leur pic it's cycle paths.

It's weird they don't just use cycle path signs at both sides.


----------



## renroz

MrAronymous said:


> Because that would imply there's a road that motor vehicles can use that connects to the ongoing road but you can't drive into. In the Etten-Leur pic it's cycle paths.
> 
> It's weird they don't just use cycle path signs at both sides.


But it ís a general road instead of a bicyclepath. Thats what 'Zwolle' says.


----------



## Penn's Woods

New York Times road highlight of the day:
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/04/12/world/europe/netherlands-singing-road.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A44 Leiden*

Construction of A44 at Leiden in 1965.


----------



## da_scotty

>


Is that a three-lane suicide setup?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*traffic volumes in the Netherlands*

I made an overview of the share of the motorway network with traffic volumes in three classes. 

* 75.1% of the motorway network carries over 50,000 vehicles per day
* 44.3% of the motorway network carries over 75,000 vehicles per day
* 25.0% of the motorway network carries over 100,000 vehicles per day

The traffic volume ranges from 10,600 on A7 at the Bad Nieuweschans border crossing to 269,700 vehicles per day on A4 at Den Haag.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Voorrangsplein*

A _voorrangsplein_ (priority "square"?) is a type of semi-roundabout that allows a dominant direction to maintain a comfortable speed and has priority, while left turns are in a semi-roundabout style. 

This is a relatively new development aimed at reducing the number of roundabouts for minor intersections, while improving safety associated with roundabouts. 

This is in the city of Heerhugowaard. The "Oosttangent" (eastern bypass) has 14 roundabouts, until recently they were all standard mini roundabouts, but more recent ones were constructed like a priority semi-roundabout like this one. They probably came to a conclusion that 14 roundabouts over a distance of 6 kilometer is just too much.


----------



## Wilhem275

This must be a nightmare for any van or truck.

It's simply impossible to give way to anything coming from your 4 o'clock position, it's an invisible spot between window and mirror.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ just angle yourself more so it's like 5 o'clock?

It looks kind of a very compressed Michigan Left kind of setup


----------



## MrAronymous

In my town they're going to convert one back into a roundabout because apparantly the priority situation as seen from the wheel was too unclear.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N34*

A 4.5 kilometer segment of N34 has been reconstructed to a 100 km/h express road near Hardenberg over the past 5 weeks. The road was closed from 12 March to 18 April, it opened this evening, two days ahead of schedule. 

During the closure, they expanded the roadway to _autoweg_ width and built 3 tunnels. The tunnels are not yet complete, but the remaining works will not affect N34 traffic. The tunnels are for local traffic and eliminate cross-overs.


----------



## Suburbanist

Why didn't they also install central barriers?


----------



## verfmeer

Because central barriers on a road with only 1 lane per direction prevent emergency vehicles from passing through.


----------



## Suburbanist

verfmeer said:


> Because central barriers on a road with only 1 lane per direction prevent emergency vehicles from passing through.


That can be solved with shoulders


----------



## verfmeer

Which would make the entire project much more expensive. It simply doesn't have the value for its money.


----------



## Uppsala

ChrisZwolle said:


> In 1938, A4/A44 opened to traffic between Amsterdam and Leiden. The section around Schiphol Airport was rebuilt over a new alignment with six lanes in 1966, to make room for the expansion of the airport and enhanced capacity.
> 
> This photo was taken in September 1966.


I like the old SOX-lights on the picture! They looks like the old lights at the motorway E4 around the lake Vättern in Sweden arround the 1960s and 1970s.

Look here


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A6/A7 Knooppunt Joure*

Overnight paving works on the new Joure motorway interchange.


JDR_4696 by Fotosite Knooppunt Joure, on Flickr


JDR_4663 by Fotosite Knooppunt Joure, on Flickr


JDR_4609 by Fotosite Knooppunt Joure, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N295*

Venlo is one of the logistical hotspots of the Netherlands, with a large increase in warehousing and logistics. Like nearby Mönchengladbach, it serves a very large population within 500 kilometers (147 million people), so it attracts many large distribution centers and warehouses from large internet retailers. There is also a lot of agricultural warehousing.

This is along N295, called the "Greenportlane", it was built in 2012 and completed in 2013. Significant development has initiated since then.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Traffic safety*

Statistics Netherlands published figures about traffic fatalities in 2017. For some reason, such statistics are often published as one of the last in Europe, even preliminary figures are not published. 

2017 recorded 613 traffic fatalities, a slight decline from 2016. However one trend is clear: the drop in fatalities has been stagnating since 2010. The goal to achieve under 500 fatalities by 2020 will not be achieved. 

For the first time ever, more cyclists than motorists were killed in traffic, 206 cyclists and 201 motorists. Two-thirds of bicycle fatalities are over the age of 65 and a quarter concerns e-bikes. 

It wouldn't surprise me if the Netherlands has a very different share of bicycle fatalities compared to other European countries. While cycling fatalities per traveled kilometers are relatively low, the sheer amount of traveled kilometers result in a high fatality figure overall, which has now exceeded that of motorists.


----------



## Alqaszar

The Venlo - Mönchengladbach Area is experiencing a boom, the Dutch side more than the German side. However, The German A 61 connecting Venlo to Southern Germany, South Eastern Europe, the Alpine Region and Italy, is becoming more and more congested by goods traffic, especially on the Eastern bypass of Mönchengladbach. The detour created by the planned open-pit coal mines [Yes, Germany is still digging coal!] south of Mönchengladbach via A 46 and A 44n won't help the situation.

The railway line connecting Mönchengladbach to Venlo is just one track for the most part (between Dülken and Kaldenkirchen stations). Doubling the line is under discussion, which could mean a better railway link to the above mentioned regions. However, the rail connection to the Duisburg port (largest inland port in Europe) doesn't exist at all. So the A 40 between Venlo and Duisburg will also see an increase of goods traffic volume.

At least the A 61 (DE)/A 74 (NL) link is up and running, but in longer terms of planning the road infrastructure has to be improved in the region. The Netherlands are long finished with the completion of the A 73, but in Germany, plannuing an building can take up several decades, so it could be useful for the Durch gouvernment to press that matter in Berlin.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Old and new A9 at Badhoevedorp. The bridge will be demolished soon.


----------



## MichiH

Alqaszar said:


> The German A 61 connecting Venlo to Southern Germany, South Eastern Europe, the Alpine Region and Italy, is becoming more and more congested by goods traffic, especially on the *Eastern bypass of Mönchengladbach*.


There is no eastern bypass. The idea was dropped long ago. Widening of the northern bypass (A52 b/n A61 and A44) has highest demand (VB-E) in the current demand plan (BVWP 2030). 2x3 widening of A57 around Krefeld b/n A42 and A44 is also VB-E and planning is quite advanced. Also A57 b/n A46 and A1 is VB-E. But that's it. No other Autobahn project around Mönchengladbach is expected to be implemented by 2030.


----------



## Theijs

MichiH said:


> There is no eastern bypass. The idea was dropped long ago. Widening of the northern bypass (A52 b/n A61 and A44) has highest demand (VB-E) in the current demand plan (BVWP 2030). 2x3 widening of A57 around Krefeld b/n A42 and A44 is also VB-E and planning is quite advanced. Also A57 b/n A46 and A1 is VB-E. But that's it. No other Autobahn project around Mönchengladbach is expected to be implemented by 2030.


Is there a map with these plans and planning available?


----------



## da_scotty

^^
Deutsch / Dutch ? I know, confusing, but wrong thread this -> german autobahn thread.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N300 Buitenring Parkstad Limburg*

The N300 expressway around Heerlen is now open for traffic from the Avantis roundabout (N281) to Rimburgerweg in Brunssum. 

The rest of N300 is also completed, but won't open until the A76 interchange at Nuth is in service by October 2018. Opening it entirely would create traffic problems.

The Nuth interchange will be in service by October 2018, but won't be completed. It is being replaced by a turbo-roundabout circle, which will be completed by August 2019 at the latest.


----------



## The Polwoman

verfmeer said:


> Which would make the entire project much more expensive. It simply doesn't have the value for its money.


Absolutely true. Sometimes this 1x2 is the best value. A super-two is adorned by some but:

- overtaking is not possible legally
- requires more width, especially when having shoulders
- shoulders could be abused
- when there are no shoulders, emergency vehicles can't pass as stated earlier

The safety on the 1x2 road is not much worse, as long as the width is suitable and there are no at-grade intersections at the speed of 100kph.

And 2x2 is not feasible, and cost-technically sensible below 20k motor vehicles/day. This specific road has a hard time reaching 10k. Only one section of the N34 is 2x2 (near Emmen), where 20K is reached. And in this Overijssel is smart to keep the money for both other roads and alternative infrastructure instead of wasting it to 2x2 roads to nowhere (in which some specific provinces are champions).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen*

Traffic on N35 has been shifted to the new carriageway, so they can rebuild the old one. 

It turns out the old brick road is still underneath the pavement. It probably dates back to the early 1950s or before. The Dutch government actively supported the brick industry until the 1950s by awarding road contracts with a brick pavement.


N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen 27-04-2018-4 by European Roads, on Flickr


N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen 27-04-2018-11 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## Slagathor

That still looks perfectly usable, let's just use that for a few years and save the money.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N18*

N18 Groenlo - Enschede opens to traffic on Wednesday.


----------



## da_scotty

20 lanes! Is that the widest in the Netherlands or even Europe ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Slagathor said:


> Fricking selfish Rijswijk, they got plenty of cash.


The idea was to upgrade several access routes into The Hague to more evenly distribute traffic in the urban area. The Hague doesn't have a functional ring road, so it is largely dependent on A12. 

Grade-separation is also planned on N211. Grade-separation was found not feasible on N14. So there are now two access roads with lower standards than was planned, which is a drawback for The Hague.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

da_scotty said:


> 20 lanes! Is that the widest in the Netherlands or even Europe ?


Yes I think so. Presently the widest motorway sections are A4 and A16 with both 4x4 lanes. But these extremely wide stretches are rather short.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N381*

Friesland province has awarded a contract to Heijmans to construct a second carriageway along N381 between Donkerbroek and Oosterwolde. This will upgrade N381 to a four lane expressway. It had already been upgraded to a controlled-access super two in 2016, so it is an upgrade of the upgraded road 

Construction will likely begin late 2018 and is planned for completion in 2020. This will create a 20 kilometer 2x2 expressway from Drachten to Oosterwolde.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A16 Rotterdam*

The contract has been signed to construct the A16 extension around the north side of Rotterdam.

It is a DBFM contract that includes the detailed design, financing, construction and maintenance of A16 over a period of 20 years. Construction will likely begin in 2019, with a planned completion in 2024.

The winning consortium is named _De Groene Boog_ (The Green Arc) and consists of Besix, Dura Vermeer, Van Oord, John Laing, Rebel & TBI.


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> The overall plan is to construct an additional collector system on A4 around Den Haag, with 4 additional lanes between Rijswijk and Leidschendam. This means the portion between A13 and A12 will be widened to 20 lanes.


All good points, though some could have been better (Rijswijk). 

I wonder how that 20-lane section will look like. I am anxious to see the first designs for this section of the most heavy traffic section of Motorway in The Netherlands. And it is probably one of the busiest sections in Europe as well? :dunno:


----------



## verfmeer

^^ Between Ypenburg and Prins Clausplein it will probably be a 6 cariageway setup. I guess it will be either 4+4x3+4 or 2x3+2x4+2x3.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A4 at The Hague is not the busiest section of motorway in Europe, but it's probably in the top 5. R1 in Antwerp has slightly higher volumes and M-30 in Madrid is usually cited as the busiest road in Europe. But Moscow may also have very high traffic volumes, but such data is not available. The UK and Germany certainly do not have traffic volumes in this range (250,000).

The highest projected traffic volume I've seen in the Netherlands is A1 near Muiden: 310,000 vehicles per day by 2030. This depends on the growth of Almere, which seems like a certainty, given the astronomical housing prices in Amsterdam.


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

ChrisZwolle said:


> The UK and Germany certainly do not have traffic volumes in this range (250,000).


In 2014 M25 Junctions 14-15 was counted at 262,842 AADT. However, that may be an outlier as the other recent years are 200-230k. 

https://www.dft.gov.uk/traffic-counts/cp.php?la=Hillingdon


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Interesting, I thought that section was in the 200,000 range.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It seems like that M25 figure is an error or maybe an outlier day, earlier and later counts show volumes in the 173,000 - 228,000 range.


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

ChrisZwolle said:


> It seems like that M25 figure is an error or maybe an outlier day, earlier and later counts show volumes in the 173,000 - 228,000 range.


I think there has been underlying growth as the five most recent years are all well above 200k. The lower numbers are in the depths of the recession. But yes, the very high number for 2014 looks like an outlier.


----------



## 8166UY

ChrisZwolle said:


> (...)
> 
> It had already been upgraded to a controlled-access super two in 2016, so it is an upgrade of the upgraded road
> (...)



I take this road a lot since it directly links my parents home (living in Drachten) to that of my grandparents (Oosterwolde) and after the upgrade people started to use that road A LOT. It is always shockingly crowded for such a sparsely populated area. Not problematically so, but I guess it is already on it's already on it's max without any capacity to spare.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's a collector road for regional and interregional traffic. Apart from Leeuwarden - Drachten - Emmen traffic, there is also not a decent east-west road from Assen to Drachten or Heerenveen. 

Another reason is to provide better access and connectivity to eastern Friesland. They are the same reasons why N356 to Dokkum was constructed, but unlike N356, the N381 expansion appeared to have been less controversial. 

Most of Friesland is now served by higher standard roads, either motorways, four lane expressways or two-lane expressways. 

The remaining objectives;
* an aquaduct at Scharsterrijn (A6)
* an aquaduct at Lemmer
* collector lanes at the Heerenveen interchange (A7/A32)
* collector lanes at the Drachen interchange (A7/N31/N381)


----------



## Wilhem275

ChrisZwolle said:


> The contract has been signed to construct the A16 extension around the north side of Rotterdam.


Any actual talk of extending _De Groene Boog_ beyond A13?


----------



## sotonsi

Ryme Intrinseca said:


> I think there has been underlying growth as the five most recent years are all well above 200k. The lower numbers are in the depths of the recession. But yes, the very high number for 2014 looks like an outlier.


2014 was also a peak economically, with less good growth in the UK since.

But most of the other major roads in the area don't have that shape with a peak in 2014 - there's a handful, but most grow, or are flat, rather than fall between '14 and '15.


----------



## da_scotty

Wilhem275 said:


> Any actual talk of extending _De Groene Boog_ beyond A13?


Towards the A4? No, none.

Would be very difficult to, the _midden Delftland_ area is one of the last remaining open(ish) areas between The Hague/Delft and Rotterdam. With a (very) left public voice in Vlaardingen/Schiedam I just don't see this happening. Unless you build is a a tunnel, which would make it very expensive in this soggy part.

Widening the A20 at Schiedam will be difficult as well, it's a very heavilly build-up area, with buildings standing very close to the motorway.


----------



## Wilhem275

Towards the A4 and beyond.

In fact, the new Blankenburg Tunnel and Groene Boog seem just like the early steps of a new northern ring:











I think the most coherent way to complete it would be to run along the border city/countryside, to avoid stealing too many greenfield areas:


----------



## da_scotty

While traffic-minded I agree. It's not going to happen any time soon due to the reasons I stated above.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Ideally A16 would be extended north to Leiden. This would create a much more robust network and reduce dependence on A4 at Den Haag, where motorways from 5 directions converge. 

This has actually been studied, both in the 1960s/70s as in more recent times. The more recent studies found that it would greatly improve traffic flow, but it wasn't really the scope of the project and the cost and impact meant it wasn't considered very seriously.


----------



## da_scotty

^^
#bringbacktheA3


----------



## postHUMANproject

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yes I think so. Presently the widest motorway sections are A4 and A16 with both 4x4 lanes. But these extremely wide stretches are rather short.


And east of the Diemen interchange? I always thought that particular part would be the widest section, after the reconstruction. I read it would be somewhere in the range of 18 lanes, originally even 21 lanes.


----------



## Theijs

*[NL] The Netherlands | road infrastructure • autosnelwegen*

The Utrechtse baan (A12) starts nice in Den Haag. The “Rotterdamse Baan” starts in similar way to easily leave the city. Why is this not branded as an extension of the A13?

Is the Rotterdamse Baan not meeting certain criteria and will get a different road number?

Is it so difficult to make a suitable interchange at the exit ‘Rijswijk Centrum’ with the A4 and the A13 that currently starts at this exit?

Or is it more marketing and is it planned once the Rotterdamse Baan is finished?


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## da_scotty

It has to solve traffic problems, but yet again we shouldn't make it too easy to enter The Hague by car. So you compromise with a brand new twin bore tunnel, but not a free flowing interchange.

Thats_ Polderen_ in a nutshell.


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## Suburbanist

What is also needed is for A44 to be extended to A4 in Risjwik through mostly a sequence of tunnels under Den Haag.


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## Slagathor

The Hague is in an especially poor situation here. 

Quite apart from not having a ring-road (which Amsterdam and Rotterdam do have), the Park-and-Ride system doesn't function well either because the city lacks a subway.

Nobody wants to park off the A4 and take fricking tram for 40 minutes to reach downtown.

So there's no real alternative.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

postHUMANproject said:


> And east of the Diemen interchange? I always thought that particular part would be the widest section, after the reconstruction. I read it would be somewhere in the range of 18 lanes, originally even 21 lanes.


It's briefly 18 lanes wide at the merge of A1 and A9, if you include all ramps and merging lanes. However the through capacity is 12 lanes (5+2+5). 

The 21 lane figure was an earlier design that included a bus corridor along the motorway (and through the aquaduct).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Hague is the most reliant on its urban arterials of all major cities in the Netherlands, since it lacks motorways. Apart from the Ypenburg-Leidschenveen suburban exclave, only 1.5 km of A12 is actually in the city limits of The Hague. 

The Hague also has a bit more four lane roads than Amsterdam and Utrecht, and perhaps also more than Rotterdam. Its network of arterials is rather extensive which helps spreading traffic on many routes, and it is not bottlenecked by (the lack of) river crossings like Rotterdam is.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4*

A4 at Leidschendam (suburban The Hague):








Photo by Comol5


----------



## Suburbanist

The best thing that could happen over there is if Den Haag and Rotterdam merged into a truly integrated metro area, with more subway/light rail connections within Den Haag, and some new greenfield dense neighborhoods built along some new stations on the railway and next to A13. 

Then, some of the farms that would between A4 and A16 remain could be bought out and transformed into a gigantic city park 

Delft would become indistinguishable from both cities thereafter.


----------



## johnmiaow

Hi. Is there any list of current/planned soon tenders for highway construction in the Netherlands?


----------



## temlin

johnmiaow said:


> Hi. Is there any list of current/planned soon tenders for highway construction in the Netherlands?


https://www.tenderned.nl/tenderned-tap/aankondigingen


----------



## Koesj

johnmiaow said:


> Hi. Is there any list of current/planned soon tenders for highway construction in the Netherlands?





temlin said:


> https://www.tenderned.nl/tenderned-tap/aankondigingen


And then you can for example filter by 'Aanleg van snelwegen en wegen - 45233000-9' (Freeway and road construction) under omschrijving. And add 'Publicatie type' Marktconsultatie and Vooraankondiging.


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## marcobruls

Suburbanist said:


> The best thing that could happen over there is if Den Haag and Rotterdam merged into a truly integrated metro area,


Yeah no thank you, we are different people different cities different culture and economy.


----------



## Des

Last week I drove the A1 from Amsterdam to Muiden for the first time in years. It looks like an American interstate at this segment. 11 lanes wide :shocked:


----------



## MrAronymous

And still people have trouble finding the right lane.


----------



## renroz

MrAronymous said:


> And still people have trouble finding the right lane.


Tourists. I'm from Groningen and have sometimes a bit trouble with só much lanes. I'm familiar with the rules and thats: 'don't pass by at the rightlane but always left'. Well... thats a bit of a struggle... hno: .


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## MrAronymous

Not talking about Des, but about people in general. Dutch drivers aren't as good as they claim to be with their constant bumperkleven en linksrijden.


----------



## Des

In a few kilometers the lanes split in 3 going left to A6 Almere and 3 going right to continue A1 Amersfoort so I don't mind if the people go to Almere tend to stick a bit left and the people to Amersfoort stick a bit right.


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## Des

I have to add that I prefer a 2x4 over a 2+2+2+2 as its done at Den Bosch and Eindhoven. On the way down to Amsterdam there was a major traffic jam on both the Eindhoven and Den Bosch ringroad. At Eindhoven both my navi sent me over N2 (which should be for local traffic) in Den Bosch they both pointed at a different direction and obviously I picked the wrong lane getting stuck on the lanes for thru traffic while the local lanes were moving freely...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Eindhoven express lanes are undersized with 93,000 vehicles on 2x2 lanes. The Den Bosch collector lanes suffer from excessive merging and weaving and a bottleneck on A2 north of the city. 

A2/N2 at Eindhoven is the busiest road in the Netherlands outside of the Randstad conurbation. The highest traffic count is 194,700 vehicles per day between Eindhoven-Airport and Eindhoven-Centrum.


----------



## Koesj

IIRC the N2 lanes were fitted out with 3 lanes temporarily during construction when the A2 mainline lanes were closed; I gather a quick and dirty decision should be made in order to redraw the lines again?


----------



## 8166UY

MrAronymous said:


> Not talking about Des, but about people in general. Dutch drivers aren't as good as they claim to be with their constant bumperkleven en linksrijden.



In my experience this is almost only the case in the Randstad and around Eindhoven. Rest of the country is generally way more well behaved on the road. But yeah, a bit more police on the highway would be good step (was largely been relocated to drug related stuff).


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## Slagathor

It's fine as long as it's 2 lanes in each direction. More than 2 lanes and people get sloppy. There's millions of drivers who see 3 lanes and think: "I'm not a truck and I don't like to go too fast so I'm staying in the middle."


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## Grzegorz.Janoszka

Slagathor said:


> It's fine as long as it's 2 lanes in each direction. More than 2 lanes and people get sloppy. There's millions of drivers who see 3 lanes and think: "I'm not a truck and I don't like to go too fast so I'm staying in the middle."



So that's why some highways in NL have three lanes, but by default the most-left is closed? And when they open the 3rd lane, they lower speed limit?


----------



## da_scotty

No......?


----------



## Des

MrAronymous said:


> Not talking about Des, but about people in general. Dutch drivers aren't as good as they claim to be with their constant bumperkleven en linksrijden.


One observation I made is that the Dutch drive extremely close to the car in front compared to Germans. It makes it very hard to merge and generally increases the risk of accidents.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Before the motorway expansions, there were a number of 2x2 motorways with traffic counts in the 100,000 - 115,000 range. These had higher hourly lane volumes than theoretically possible. I remember some had over 3,000 vehicles/lane/hour.


----------



## snowdog

Des said:


> One observation I made is that the Dutch drive extremely close to the car in front compared to Germans. It makes it very hard to merge and generally increases the risk of accidents.


I disagree, I mean, yeah I agree that the distance is much smaller here, but cars drive much slower too, and if we kept more distance than the roads would have insufficient capacity.

What always bothers me in Germany is the unnecessary braking to keep a huge distance between cars, when releasing throttle would suffice as you can increase the distance later on. Many Germans are completely OCD on keeping a large distance, and use their brakes, keep your effing foot off the effing brake on the motorway, solve everything with your gas pedal :bash:. Also they don't seem to overtake on the right or even keep right in congested situations (where overtaking on the right is allowed):






Never have I seen such lazy and bad driving on a 2x2 lane motorway (I mean in NL, drivers are far worse on for example the A12 or A2 with 2x4+ lanes) as on the A13 in Germany. Completely unable to cope with higher traffic volumes on 2x2 lanes, the left lane often is slower than the right .

Above situation went on for like 50 km's . All because them idiots want to keep a stupid long distance and don't keep to the right when possible.


----------



## TrojaA

^^ overtaking right in such a situation is forbidden in Germany and will cost you 100€ and earn you 1 point.


----------



## snowdog

A stupid rule, since it is the result of not keeping right. If people don't keep right when possible, I will make use of that space, especially in congestion. Luckily in DE, barely any police on the motorways, the fines are so low they're actually worth it (I mean 30 euros for getting caught with +20 is a bargain, and even 100 for overtaking on right is fine once in a while), and German points are irrelevant for a Dutch license.


----------



## da_scotty

But you're special.


----------



## snowdog

Not really, most people here will pass on the right if traffic on left suddenly slows down (we're talking from 170km/h to 70 km/h here in this video), overtaking in congestion is allowed, and in some EU countries it's legal to pass on the right altogether, because there's a clear distinction made between overtaking and passing...

Germans just seem more **** about their rules in general. they will also slam their brakes at 200 km/h for some stupid speed limit for 100 meters (after which they floor it again). I stand by my point, people who brake unnecessarily on the motorway are idiots, just release the throttle. Use common sense rather than following the rules 100%. I refuse to brake for no reason when there's a whole lane free for traffic, just because some people can't keep to the right and slow down on left.


----------



## g.spinoza

snowdog said:


> Not really, most people here will pass on the right if traffic on left suddenly slows down (we're talking from 170km/h to 70 km/h here in this video), overtaking in congestion is allowed, and in some EU countries it's legal to pass on the right altogether, because there's a clear distinction made between overtaking and passing...


Passing requires no change of lane, though.


----------



## sotonsi

snowdog said:


> I stand by my point, people who brake unnecessarily on the motorway are idiots, just release the throttle.


In genuine emergencies, braking is something needed...

Ghost Jams are caused by excessive braking by one person sending shock waves down the motorway as those behind have to brake and it just not clearing.


----------



## EPA001

snowdog said:


> Germans just seem more **** about their rules in general. they will also slam their brakes at 200 km/h for some stupid speed limit for 100 meters (after which they floor it again). I stand by my point, people who brake unnecessarily on the motorway are idiots, just release the throttle. Use common sense rather than following the rules 100%. I refuse to brake for no reason when there's a whole lane free for traffic, just because some people can't keep to the right and slow down on left.


Your post is written with the safeguarding structure that you enjoy by not having a drivers license with a penalty system based on points. You should know this now from experience when driving in Germany. Because if they don't brake, and there would a be a speed check in such a zone, they will get fined and possibly loose their license (because they might have gathered already some points). This they prevent with the braking. And the penalties are quite harsh, much harsher than we are used to. Out fines are on average higher, but taking a drivers license away for 4, 8, 12 or even more months (sending them to Flensburg) is quite a severe punishment. And that happens much more often there than in The Netherlands where only really excessive speeding and/or very dangerous driving can result in a temporary formal denying in the right to drive a car. 

So you might think you have 'no reason' to brake, although also for you the law applies, including indicated maximum speeds per sections of the Autobahn, but the German drivers on the Autobahn might have or do have that very good reason. Knowing this you should drive with that information in mind. And also the German drivers of course should follow the law too.

In The Netherlands the road situation is frequently not better with our many overcrowded roads, but the speeds here are also on average lower because of that heavy traffic. The limits are usually lower and the enforcement with quite a few trajectory speed traps is also a big difference.


----------



## Surel

MrAronymous said:


> Not talking about Des, but about people in general. Dutch drivers aren't as good as they claim to be with their constant bumperkleven en linksrijden.


Or in fact they are better drivers as they manage to utilize the congested motorways more efficiently.

When I hear my Czech friends/family complain about the congested D1 and then actually drive there and see how little traffic is there compared to the Dutch motorways and how undisciplined the drivers are causing much more traffic trouble than the orderly Dutch, driving closer to each other, but filling the whole motorway, keeping everyone at 100+ pace.

One undisciplined driver will cause more trouble to the traffic than all those drivers driving close to each other with minimal margin safety distance imho.


----------



## MrAronymous

It's not distance between cars that creates traffic jams. In fact, it's the opposite.


----------



## Des

To a certain extend I agree with the not braking unless really necessary on highways but that only works on highways with no major speed differences and those where it is possible to anticipate on what is coming by seeing what is ahead. On the straight Dutch highways that is easier than on the twisty and partly unlimited German highways. 

I prefer the unlimited German autobahn with the necessity for some braking over the slow and boring Dutch highways where it is possible to just drive with only throttle on or throttle off.


----------



## hjf

MrAronymous said:


> It's not distance between cars that creates traffic jams. In fact, it's the opposite.


For further reading on how and why traffic jams evolve and dissolve please refer to 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagel–Schreckenberg_model

or any other link on the Nagel-Schreckenberg theorem.

This theorem also provides guidance on how to behave as a driver when negotiating congested areas (not necessarily the wikipedia article, but the well educated subscribers to this forum will sure find additional information). 

Best

hjf


----------



## Uppsala

Theijs said:


> Correct. I just checked with my uncle. He told me that the head of Dienst Verkeer of Rijkswaterstaat made in the ‘60s a study trip to the USA.



Why did they changed the signs in The Netherlands? Do they think the new ones are better? Or they just wanted to change from American style to European style?


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## MrAronymous

Downward arrows aren't "American style". They changed the arrows to improve traffic flow. Belgium's doing it too now in some places.


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## Uppsala

MrAronymous said:


> Downward arrows aren't "American style". They changed the arrows to improve traffic flow. Belgium's doing it too now in some places.



Its not only the downwards positioned arrows at the old signs in the Netherlands that are American style. Its the style of the signs. Old signs look American, except for two things:


They are blue in The Netherlands
The part for old exitnumers have the text "afrit" instead of "exit"

But the rest looks very American, not European. Not only the downwards positioned arrows, its the shape of the arrows, the font on the signs all of it.

But someone in The Netherlands wanted to take of the American style, and made them like a mix of Swedish and German style. So the new ones looks very European


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## ChrisZwolle

*speed limits*

The speed limit will go up to 130 km/h on several sections;

* A28 Fluitenberg - Ruinen (north of Hoogeveen)
* A50 Ewijk - Valburg (west of Nijmegen)
* A58 Markiezaat - Rilland (in Zeeland)
* A76 Kunderberg - German border (east of Heerlen)
* A77 Rijkevoort - German border (entire motorway)


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## renroz

ChrisZwolle said:


> The speed limit will go up to 130 km/h on several sections;
> 
> * A28 Fluitenberg - Ruinen (north of Hoogeveen)


Woohoo! But hey, I drove already 145. Less higher fines :cheers:


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## ADCS

Uppsala said:


> Its not only the downwards positioned arrows at the old signs in the Netherlands that are American style. Its the style of the signs. Old signs look American, except for two things:
> 
> 
> They are blue in The Netherlands
> The part for old exitnumers have the text "afrit" instead of "exit"
> 
> But the rest looks very American, not European. Not only the downwards positioned arrows, its the shape of the arrows, the font on the signs all of it.
> 
> But someone in The Netherlands wanted to take of the American style, and made them like a mix of Swedish and German style. So the new ones looks very European


We're also adopting "arrow per lane" signs in the US, and they are upward pointing. This seems to just be a general international trend.


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## Kanadzie

Uppsala said:


> Its not only the downwards positioned arrows at the old signs in the Netherlands that are American style. Its the style of the signs. Old signs look American, except for two things:
> 
> 
> They are blue in The Netherlands
> The part for old exitnumers have the text "afrit" instead of "exit"
> 
> But the rest looks very American, not European. Not only the downwards positioned arrows, its the shape of the arrows, the font on the signs all of it.
> 
> But someone in The Netherlands wanted to take of the American style, and made them like a mix of Swedish and German style. So the new ones looks very European


The old and new signs both appear to have the American font completely, which is clearly better


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## ChrisZwolle

*N300 Buitenring Parkstad Limburg*

Some aerial photos of the new N300 expressway, also known as the _Buitenring Parkstad Limburg_, a regional ring road around Heerlen. 





































Source & more: https://buitenring.nl/nieuws/update-luchtfotos-buitenring-van-boven/


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## renroz

Oh oh oh.. Three roundabouts! NOOOOOO!


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## Uppsala

renroz said:


> Oh oh oh.. Three roundabouts! NOOOOOO!



No, its mot three, its four! Look again


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## ChrisZwolle

*N35*

A bat gantry across N35 just outside of Zwolle.


N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen 15-06-2018-7 by European Roads, on Flickr


N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen 15-06-2018-8 by European Roads, on Flickr

Almost invisble due to its position in the trees, but the sign says "vleermuisportaal" (bat gantry).

N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen 15-06-2018-9 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## Slagathor

If you're gonna build something like that, why not an actual bridge so human beings can get across too?


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## Suburbanist

Bats are overrated and kinda filthy, they spread diseases like mosquitoes. They are not like squirrels or beavers.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A27 Utrecht - Hilversum*

There is a weekend closure on A27 between Utrecht and Hilversum. The six lane expansion is almost completed now. Construction began in July 2017.


DSCN6029 by DutchRoadMovies, on Flickr


DSCN6030 by DutchRoadMovies, on Flickr


DSCN6051 by DutchRoadMovies, on Flickr


DSCN6050 by DutchRoadMovies, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*...*


Snelfietsroute Maastricht-Sittard: Vliegveldweg by Etienne M, on Flickr


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## Slagathor

Oh for Christ's sake.


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## De Vorst




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## Theijs

ChrisZwolle said:


> There is a weekend closure on A27 between Utrecht and Hilversum. The six lane expansion is almost completed now. Construction began in July 2017.


It looks like the viaducts are prepared for 2X4 + hard shoulders...


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## ChrisZwolle

That's right, it was actually a part of this project to expand (not replace) the bridges to make them suited for eight lanes. There used to be plans for some kind of bus lane but that was scrapped apparently. 

The nearby A1 expansion is also part of this contract. A1 will be expanded to eight lanes which will be put into service in the near future. Traffic volumes on A1 are somewhat higher, as well as the truck share being higher than A27.


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## Slagathor

A friend of mine just saw that Meerssen picture on my screen from a distance and he said: "That is either an awesome bicycle highway with a wide median that still allows for overtaking a _bakfiets_, or it's the worst road in the Kingdom."


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## Wilhem275

Oh, ok. Bureaucracy at full steam :lol:


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## ChrisZwolle

In reality such lanes are open very often outside of rush hour, including on weekends. In these photos, the lanes were open despite the light traffic. The downside is that the speed limit gets reduced to 100 km/h when the lanes open. 

The minister of transportation has announced plans to turn them into permanent lanes, but the Utrecht - Veenendaal upgrade of 2012 was financed as a DBFM concession, so changing anything would need a revision of the contract. I'm not aware of any precedent like this.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N35*

N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen is currently under a weekend closure to complete the remaining works. I took a look this evening, surprisingly there were no workers present, it appeared to be nearly completed. Perhaps it will open tomorrow instead of Monday morning.


N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen 23-06-2018-2 by European Roads, on Flickr


N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen 23-06-2018-12 by European Roads, on Flickr


N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen 23-06-2018-14 by European Roads, on Flickr


N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen 23-06-2018-17 by European Roads, on Flickr


N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen 23-06-2018-21 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

They forgot the arrows on this sign! :lol:










It will probably be replaced very soon.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen*

The N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen upgrade opened to traffic this morning. The two-lane N35 has been upgraded to four lanes and a 100 km/h speed limit. This resolves an important bottleneck, as the 27,000 vehicles per day frequently overwhelmed capacity on this road. It was also a dangerous road with several fatal crashes in the past few years. 

I made a video this afternoon:


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ The project was reported to be considerably under budget.

The N35 project had a budget of € 48 million, but they estimate the project will have cost between € 34 and € 40 million once all the remaining works are completed by late 2018. Traffic opening was also half a year ahead of schedule.

The surplus budget will be used for other N35 upgrades. The official "vision" for N35 is a 2x2, 100 km/h expressway from Zwolle to A35 at Wierden. The next stage is the Nijverdal - Wierden segment which is planned to begin in 2020.


----------



## Grzegorz.Janoszka

ChrisZwolle said:


> They forgot the arrows on this sign! :lol:
> It will probably be replaced very soon.



Do you know why they are not replacing the broken signs on A5? There are two of them with sections missing after heavy wind a few months ago. All the names are readible now, but it just doesn't look good. One can have the impression that road maintenance doesn't exist.


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## ChrisZwolle

There are a number of signs along Dutch motorways that are damaged, some to the point of not being legible anymore, that are not replaced for a very long time. I don't know why that is, usually maintenance is at a pretty high level. The A5 signs were damaged in January, you'd think they would have replaced / repaired them by now.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A15 Papendrecht - Gorinchem*

The minister of transportation and a deputy of South Holland province have signed the "Startbeslissing" (initial decision), an official step in the Netherlands to move from scoping to procedures. The plan is to expand A15 to six lanes to Gorinchem.


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## Slagathor

I don't like these. There's always a sense of politicians showing up for their moment of glory and then they leave thinking: "That was great PR, I don't actually care what happens to the road now."

They should only be allowed to pose once the thing is _finished_.


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## da_scotty

Then again, they can be seen as accountable now als they took the "glory" .


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## ChrisZwolle

It's also a great way for politicians to show how they are improving infrastructure locally / regionally instead of just being in The Hague all the time - detached from the reality of everyday people / motorists. 

Infrastructure development is often a long-term process that spans multiple governments. Few ministers are in office long enough to claim both the plan approval and project opening. 

This kind of events are probably more tangible for the average citizen than another press release loaded with buzz words like "Smart Mobility", "Mobility as a Service", "sustainability", "cradle-to-cradle", "innovative", etc.


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## MichiH

Slagathor said:


> I don't like these. There's always a sense of politicians showing up for their moment of glory and then they leave thinking: "That was great PR, I don't actually care what happens to the road now."
> 
> They should only be allowed to pose once the thing is _finished_.


Well, it seems to be important enough to present the political show up with pics on this politics thread!


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## ChrisZwolle

The project has attracted some attention. This has long been a bottleneck that was not acknowledged by the national government, despite the daily 10 - 15 kilometer traffic jams. 

It was originally planned to build a shoulder lane for only a portion of the project. That was recently upgraded to 3 full lanes from Papendrecht (N3) to Sliedrecht-East (6 km). However this new initial decision is for the long-desired full-scale expansion of A15 to Gorinchem.

The project also includes the Gorinchem motorway interchange with A27, however it is not clear to what extent this cloverleaf will be reconstructed. The cost is estimated at some € 400 million, a serious amount of money for just 17 kilometers of motorway, which may suggest that the cloverleaf reconstruction could be significant, but on the other hand the soil in this area is extremely poor. 

This section of A15 was reconstructed from 2000 to 2006, it was several years behind schedule and considerably over budget at € 184 million at that time. The reconstruction included a substantial rebuilding of the motorway, bridges and interchanges, with some sections being prepared for a 2x3 widening. The bad soil conditions led to design changes, delays and cost overruns.

Approximately 4.5 kilometers of A15 in Sliedrecht & Hardinxveld-Giessendam, spread out over 4 short sections, have been prepared for six lanes during the 2000-2006 reconstruction. So that would save some money.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Bridge condition*

Interesting 2015 article about bridge maintenance and condition in the Netherlands: https://www.deingenieur.nl/artikel/werkelijke-conditie-kunstwerken-verandert-onderhoudsplan

They switched from maintenance / replacement "by the book" to "condition based maintenance". Many concrete bridges are in better condition than they would be according to standard lifespan approaches.

For example the life of a concrete bridge is based on the hardening of concrete after a 28 day period. But in reality the concrete continues to harden beyond that period, making it 10 - 20% better than projected. This means the lifespan of a bridge can be extended by 30 years.

Using this approach, there is a 5-30 year delay in the massive replacement of concrete bridges from the 1960s and 1970s, which was originally planned between 2030 and 2050 "by the book", but in reality will be in the period 2035-2070+. This reduces the maintenance cost per year, as it can be spread out over more years than originally anticipated.

Static calculations have also been improved over time, especially for steel bridges. Steel bridges have shorter lifespans than concrete bridges, with cracking and fatigue being the main problems. They achieved a 5-10 year delay for replacement or significant renovations for steel bridges. 

By far most bridges in the Dutch motorway network are concrete ones. Steel bridges are mainly used for large river crossings, but even then some large river crossings are concrete cantilever bridges.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Apeldoorn - Hengelo*

The final environmental assessment for the A1 expansion in eastern Netherlands has been signed on 12 June. It was published today.

Also, the awarding of the € 127 million Phase I contract to Heijmans is now final. 

Construction of phase I will commence in early 2019 and be completed by late 2020, a construction time of circa 1.5 - 2 years for approximately 30 kilometers of widening. Most of the widening east of Deventer can likely be completed in one season since it consists of only paving the median. No bridges need reconstruction or replacement. The western segment is an outward widening that requires some more time.


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## MattiG

ChrisZwolle said:


> They switched from maintenance / replacement "by the book" to "condition based maintenance". Many concrete bridges are in better condition than they would be according to standard lifespan approaches.


It is interesting if the bridge repair process is driven by something else than the condition.

The Finnish process is quite systematic, at least on the paper:

The projected lifetime is 


100 years for steel and concrete bridges
50 years for wooden bridges and steel tubes
There are targets for the repair cycle of certain components, delivered as a planning guideline:


25 years for edge beams on salted roads
40 years for edge beams on non-salted roads
35 years for water insulation
25 years for movement joints
25 years for non-paved wooden coating of the deck
25 years for painting of steel structures
15 years for painting or other coating of concrete structures
Every bridge is inspected in five years intervals. Based on the observations, a bridge is assigned a condition class 1-5. The condition class has a correlation to the priority to repair.

The inspection is done according to written criteria. The condition class is determined from the sum of "reparation score points". Those are calculated by a weighed average over observations. (Vital structures have a higher weight than esthetical ones.)

The text written above is valid for the state-owned bridges. Municipalities and private roadlords are quite free to act stupidly.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A16/N3 Dordrecht*

The Council of State has rejected the appeals against the reconstruction of the A16-N3 interchange on the south side of Dordrecht.

The plan is to reconstruct the interchange with a new loop ramp, a short parallel carriageway that connects to the new access to the Dordtse Kil IV industrial area. 

The A16/N3 interchange is one of the busiest between a motorway and a non-motorway in the Netherlands, with N3 carrying some 50,000 vehicles per day into the traffic lights.

Construction will commence after the summer.


Aansluiting A16-N3 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*Environmental zones in the Netherlands*

Some cities in the Netherlands have environmental zones. Each city has signed and implemented it differently, in some areas it's only for trucks or vans in others it applies to all vehicles. 

Environmental zones will be harmonized by 2020. There will be two types of environmental zones for diesel cars, euro III or better or euro IV or better, in practice, 15 or 20 year old diesel cars at that time. Environmental zone implementation is a matter of the municipalities: it is voluntary. New restrictions will come into force by 2025.

Diesel cars are not as popular in the Netherlands as in other nearby countries. Presently only some 15% of passenger cars are diesel-powered. Only a very small share of cars will be affected by the environmental zones, especially because vintage cars, RVs and vehices belonging to disabled people are exempt from the environmental zone restrictions. 

For example: only 4.4% of all cars registered between 1990 and 2000 are diesel-powered. A full 63% of diesel cars were registered after 2010. Currently approximately 92% of diesel cars are less than 15 year old.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Victory Boogie Woogie Tunnel*

The first tube of the 1860 meter long Victory Boogie Woogie Tunnel in The Hague broke through today.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Hilversum - Amersfoort*

The eight lane expansion of A1 is almost completed. It lacks a final wearing course, which will be applied during several weekends.


DSCN6747 by DutchRoadMovies, on Flickr


DSCN6760 by DutchRoadMovies, on Flickr


DSCN6761 by DutchRoadMovies, on Flickr


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## KIWIKAAS

ChrisZwolle said:


> In the early days the merging lane even had shark's teeth painted on them.
> 
> The sign B6 (yield) at motorway ramps was probably scrapped in the 1990 highway code.
> 
> Both photos were taken in 1991.


Thanks Chris! 
I remember a couple of instances with "sharks teeth " at onramps on N roads. 

I am currently doing my C licence theory and we were discussing the merge rules. I brought up the question of the old "yield " signage, but no one else had any recollection of that ever being the case.


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## fcfreedom

I was just wandering, if The Netherlands is a country which territory is even smaller then the territory of my home country of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and is still criss-crossed by highways, roads, bridges, railways, airports, river ports, sea ports, bycicle roads, pathways, and so on, what impact does that vast number of paved roads and other vast infrastructure on such small territory has in terms of enviromental protection, ecology, air pollution, noise pollution, and spatial planning? It has to be quite challenging for the government to keep all those things in ballance and yet to meet high european standards of enviromental protection and sustainability.


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## da_scotty

That's one hell of question.

Simplest answer:
- Everything is planned, spacial planning, every area is labeled/categorised.
- Polderen, or the art of consensus is everything.


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## ChrisZwolle

fcfreedom said:


> I was just wandering, if The Netherlands is a country which territory is even smaller then the territory of my home country of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and is still criss-crossed by highways, roads, bridges, railways, airports, river ports, sea ports, bycicle roads, pathways, and so on, what impact does that vast number of paved roads and other vast infrastructure on such small territory has in terms of enviromental protection, ecology, air pollution, noise pollution, and spatial planning? It has to be quite challenging for the government to keep all those things in ballance and yet to meet high european standards of enviromental protection and sustainability.


The Netherlands has a very stringent urban planning. While most of the Dutch people live in lower density suburban areas, smaller towns and villages, there is no uncontrolled development of the countryside as you can find in many other countries. 

To give a few examples;

*Environmental protection / ecology*: every road project must go through environmental approval. There are over 70 wildlife crossings in the Netherlands, most of them bridges over motorways but also some across secondary roads and railroads. In additional, there are numerous wildlife passages under the roads as well. Road projects must be compensated, typically more trees are planted than are cut down. There is currently considerably more forest than in the 1960s. 

*air pollution*: air pollution has been reduced significantly over the past 20 years. There are no motorway locations where air quality standards are violated. There are some small violations in urban cores (< 10 km) and near poultry farms. PM10 in particular has been significantly reduced over the past 10-15 years. 

*noise pollution*: the Netherlands uses silent pavement extensively, even to such an extent that there are far fewer noise barriers in the Netherlands than some other countries (most prominently Poland). The centralized spatial planning also keeps the countryside undeveloped and thus reduces the need for noise barriers outside of urban areas. Almost the entire motorway network is equipped with porous pavement, and it is also increasingly used on other motorways.


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## lumix153

fcfreedom said:


> I was just wandering, if The Netherlands is a country which territory is even smaller then the territory of my home country of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and is still criss-crossed by highways, roads, bridges, railways, airports, river ports, sea ports, bycicle roads, pathways, and so on, what impact does that vast number of paved roads and other vast infrastructure on such small territory has in terms of enviromental protection, ecology, air pollution, noise pollution, and spatial planning? It has to be quite challenging for the government to keep all those things in ballance and yet to meet high european standards of enviromental protection and sustainability.


You forgot something...The Netherlands is also criss-crossed by water Canals. 
The Reasons why the Netherlands functions flawlessly with such high population, small area and huge-huge infrastructure are Mentality, Order and Intelligence in Urban Planning.


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## Slagathor

1) We do not function _flawlessly_, come on. 

2) Our spatial planning is pretty rigid and overall very good, but the focus on low-density suburban sprawl and business parks by the side of motorways was a mistake. Higher density neighborhoods and office space in city centers would have shifted some of the traffic to public transportation and make congestion less of a problem. 

The reason many people don't take the train to work, is because they can't. This trip from a residential neighborhood to an office park, for example, takes 18 minutes by car but almost an hour by public transportation.


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## da_scotty

We should indeed watch out that we don't over-americanise the spatial planning and get sprawling. It's not all too bad though, and biking does take a lot of car's away from commuter travel, not all, but a lot.


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## MrAronymous

The fact that every tiny town is building their own regional shopping mall and commercial park is bad enough. Let alone the fact that spatial planning will be devolved from the national government to the provinces and municipality... so stupid.


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## Grzegorz.Janoszka

fcfreedom said:


> I was just wandering, if The Netherlands is a country which territory is even smaller then the territory of my home country of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and is still criss-crossed by highways, roads, bridges, railways, airports, river ports, sea ports, bycicle roads, pathways, and so on, what impact does that vast number of paved roads and other vast infrastructure on such small territory has in terms of enviromental protection, ecology, air pollution, noise pollution, and spatial planning? It has to be quite challenging for the government to keep all those things in ballance and yet to meet high european standards of enviromental protection and sustainability.



You don't have any wild areas in the Netherlands. Everything is either residential, commercial or agricultural. Few places are so called "natural reserves", but they are always planned and built by humans and in many places you can see trees planted in a regular grid 
In the whole country there are almost no places left for the nature to rule by itself.



Air quality and noise is a serious concern here, especially in Randstad. There ecological push against new roads/railroads is quite strong, but completely not justified for me as there isn't much to protect.


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## Grzegorz.Janoszka

Slagathor said:


> The reason many people don't take the train to work, is because they can't. This trip from a residential neighborhood to an office park, for example, takes 18 minutes by car but almost an hour by public transportation.



I have now third job in the Netherlands. To the first I just cycled (6 km and they I moved and it was 4 km one way). To the second I used bike (1km), train (20 km) and bike (1,5 km). Now I use only the car as even in morning/evening rush hours it takes me 3x less time than public transport.
And I live in quite a big city and work in a huge office area (30+ buildings).


I am one of many who would be so happy to use public transport if it only made sense.


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## ChrisZwolle

Slagathor said:


> 2) Our spatial planning is pretty rigid and overall very good, but the focus on low-density suburban sprawl and business parks by the side of motorways was a mistake. Higher density neighborhoods and office space in city centers would have shifted some of the traffic to public transportation and make congestion less of a problem.


Higher densities result in less affordable housing and more intense traffic congestion. While higher densities might lead to more people using public transport, it will not absorb all traffic and thus also create more vehicle movements per square kilometer, mostly on road networks that cannot be expanded and are already overburdened. 

The current model of the Netherlands with dispersed employment and compact cities with a high share of cycling for short trips works reasonably well, the Netherlands doesn't rank very high on traffic congestion lists which is no small feat for such a densely populated country. 

The TomTom Traffic Index lists only 1 Dutch city in the top 100 of Europe's most congested cities. And that city is Haarlem.


----------



## MrAronymous

ChrisZwolle said:


> Higher densities result in less affordable housing


Which is weird, as you'd think that more volume would reduce costs, economy of scale. 

I think that it's the other way around. Areas with higher density are expensive because there's not a whole lot of it. I mean only the three biggest cities have neighbourhoods with something resembling high density city blocks with at least 5 storeys (you're free to prove me wrong). They're located near the centre of town and therefore very popular. 

Contrast that with Germany where many more people live in an apartment block and where city blocks are still being built, even up to green farm land areas. If more parts of the city would be dense blocks, more housing would be available and living costs would be cheaper. If that meant transit would be more viable, people might actually want to live there as well. It could mean more people could live closer to their job, as current job mobility is shit.


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## ChrisZwolle

Higher density either occurs naturally through scarcity of land (Manhattan) or forced by reducing the supply of land to develop by artificial urban boundaries. Both result in escalating land value prices, thus higher housing cost. 

Housing prices in the Netherlands have increased much faster than income growth over the past 5 years, due to a lack of supply. For example in The Hague the average house price has increased by almost 30% between 2012 and 2017. Few people would have seen their salary increase by that much over the same period, so it becomes less affordable.


----------



## MrAronymous

But even low density housing in the east of the country has become more expensive. This problem doesn't seem to be tied to density as much as you're implying. 

It's true that you can't just build anywhere, so there's restriction in that regard. But it's very much possible to upzone some existing neighbourhoods during _sanering_ or build higher density in newer areas to cope with the amount of people needing housing. Yet it usually isn't done because they think it's not what people want or think it's not sellable. Yet, the housing crisis in the Randstad is very serious, and the rest of the country is starting to feel it too. So surely there must be a market somewhere..

I feel building companies and cities are hesitant to building entire higher density neiughbourhoods because they haven't really been doing it since the 1930s. They're not used to it an are afraid people will not like it. We do have a lot of NIMBYs for anything thats higher than 4 storeys.

Yet we're living in a time where dense vibrant cities attract young people. So all together, there's plenty of reason for density to increase, yet it only happens in a few locations (again, mostly the 3 cities who already have experience with density and see how nice it can be). Now it may not make sense to put in city neighbourhoods in small northeastern towns, but it's clear that in the bigger cities there's a demand for that isn't being met. The ridiculous social housing waiting lists (20 years or more?) are a testament to that. So yeah in those places where it's hard to find a place to live altogether, of course it's more expensive near the center near the higher density areas. But those areas are tiny compared to foreign urban areas where higher density extends out into the suburbs. Upzoning low density neighbourhoods that surround that high density area is barely being done. There is infill development, but often not dense or numerous enough to cope with rising demand.

Just look at Vienna for a city that's very high density, and has a bigger high density area than any of our cities and yet seems to have moderate housing prices.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ high density needs really expensive infrastructure... a single house with some wood and boards is very cheap versus some tower of steel and concrete, plus the roads to serve it (simple roads or motorway and multilane arterials with drainage...)

And NL of course being essentially the only country to keep making more land, high density doesn't make so much sense :lol:

Also, for NL specifically, there might be geotechnical problems with large buildings on that kind of silty soil, it might sink too much and fall over or drag the polder underwater :lol:
Even elsewhere you see mistakes like that building (Millenium Tower) in San Francisco that is ever so slowly tipping over as the ground is too soft.

Anyway a simple solution seems to be to loosen the planning and regulation and let people who want to live in high-density areas live in them, and ones in low-density ones live in those. It seems as simple as it is...


----------



## MrAronymous

You're not from here are you? 



> a single house with some wood and boards


Yeah not gonna happen here anyway.



> plus the roads to serve it


Which are free? They're not. And they are far more maintenance intensive compared to rail. Rail is always cheaper in the long run. 



> geotechnical problems with large buildings on that kind of silty soil


Soil conditions are the least of our concerns. And with density I'm not even talking about skyscrapers here, which are possible even in our soil. But about regular city high density: 5+ storey city blocks with private gardens in the middle. About half of Amsterdam is already like that and it works really well. People are already complaining there's not enough open 'natural' space outside the built-up area. Most people want this strict policy, so we keep some open areas and 'nature'. You only have to look at Belgium to see what you don't want our country to be (basically everything you just suggested).



> high density needs really expensive infrastructure


Uhm, it's a way more efficient way of building than low density. The initial costs might be higher, but rail transit lasts longer and can serve way more people. In all the super low density that you can find elsewhere in the world, like North America, there is way more km² of roads to maintain per person. And roads degrade very quickly compared to rail. Plus you'd have to build parking garages for cars, which is expensive as hell, compared to bike garages or rail infrastructure.



> loosen the planning and regulation and let people who want to live in high-density areas live in them, and ones in low-density ones live in those. It seems as simple as it is...


We don't want to become like Belgium, trust me. Our country has half the population of Canada yet is 240 times smaller.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

MrAronymous said:


> But even low density housing in the east of the country has become more expensive. This problem doesn't seem to be tied to density as much as you're implying.


The problem is the lack of supply of housing and land to build it on. Many towns and cities in the east have almost entirely blocked off the development on the urban fringe, which results in escalating housing prices, especially if different housing types are built than desired by the market. Apartments are more expensive per square meter than a single family house. 

Additionally, there is the "waterbed" effect of housing prices, which results in people seeking affordable housing farther from the Randstad area, increasing housing prices there as well. This also results in more traffic on the motorways and busier trains.

Infill will do only so much, most low hanging fruit of the brownfield sites / redevelopment projects have been developed by now. At some point they have to open up land to carefully develop new housing subdivisions, just like we have done since basically the beginning of time.


----------



## Suburbanist

The solution is simple, develop 40% of the Markenmeer as originally intended. Strictly high density development. Also build a new large city in Goeree-Flakee Island and connect it to Rotterdam and Breda by train.


----------



## Suburbanist

In any case even without expanding the land footprint with a new polder, some decent 200.000 residences could be built around existing NS train stations.


----------



## renroz

Hello from Groningen. Density? Jamming? Say what? Nature! Thats what


----------



## Slagathor

Nature? You mean farms?


----------



## Attus

Reading discussions in this thread sometimes I have the feeling, no one uses public transport in the Netherlands  But actually the Netherlands has one of the busiest railway network of the world, having quite a high occupancy. 
If you want to have more passangers in railways, you have to develop railways as well. Which is - what a pity - significantly more expensive than develop motorway network. Utrech Centraal has been refurbished recently in order to be able to handle 180 trains an hour, which is quite a lot. More would only be possible by building a new railway line through the city and a new station, which would only be possible underground. Costs? Two digit billions of euro. And the first digit is not necesserily a 1.


----------



## Weissenberg

Attus said:


> Reading discussions in this thread sometimes I have the feeling, no one uses public transport in the Netherlands  But actually the Netherlands has one of the busiest railway network of the world, having quite a high occupancy.
> If you want to have more passangers in railways, you have to develop railways as well. Which is - what a pity - significantly more expensive than develop motorway network. Utrech Centraal has been refurbished recently in order to be able to handle 180 trains an hour, which is quite a lot. More would only be possible by building a new railway line through the city and a new station, which would only be possible underground. Costs? Two digit billions of euro. And the first digit is not necesserily a 1.


You actually answered your own questions. PT in the Netherlands, specifically in the Randstad area, has reached its maximum capacity and the only way to increase it is by expanding existing infrastructure which considering the population density in the region would be extremely expensive... and that would translate into even higher fare costs. In many instances car is a faster, cheaper, and more reliable alternative.


----------



## Suburbanist

They could 4- and 6-track some highways. Not cheap, but doable. There is also scope for a capacity increase with ERTMS-3 instead of the current outdated ATB which not only limits speeds but also the hourly throughput, especially for stop-trains.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Attus said:


> Reading discussions in this thread sometimes I have the feeling, no one uses public transport in the Netherlands  But actually the Netherlands has one of the busiest railway network of the world, having quite a high occupancy.


While that is true, the share of public transport of all travel is not exceptionally high. Train usage is above EU average but bus usage is significantly below EU average, at only 3%. This is due to cycling being more attractive for urban travel than taking a slow bus or tram.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N366 / N391*

The N366 / N391 trumpet interchange opened to traffic on 14 July. It is located near Ter Apel, Groningen province.


----------



## Attus

Weissenberg said:


> You actually answered your own questions.


I didn't have any. I made statesments


----------



## Turf

ChrisZwolle said:


> The N366 / N391 trumpet interchange opened to traffic on 14 July. It is located near Ter Apel, Groningen province.
> 
> ...]


I guess in some areas there is plenty of space


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N194*

The northern bypass of Heerhugowaard opened to traffic today. It is part of N194, a new provincial road that is part of the "N23" project from Alkmaar to Zwolle. 

N194 is a partially newly built road around Heerhugowaard, a reconstruction of the former N507 and a widening of the former N243. N194 features a large number of turbo roundabouts.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A24 Blankenburg Tunnel*

Great news, the Council of State today has rejected all appeals against the construction of the A24 motorway through the Blankenburg Tunnel on the west side of Rotterdam. 

The new motorway will link A15 and A20 near Rozenburg, improving connectivity and providing an additional river crossing, which are scarce in the Rotterdam area.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N7 Groningen*

The expansion of N7 through Groningen has seen another setback. The planned 5-week closure has been called off today. It was planned to close N7 from 20 July to 24 August, with this closure they could reduce the delay from 3 to 2 years. 

They say the preparation time was too short to properly and safely execute the works during the 5-week closure. This means that the delay is now up to 3 years, with a completion in 2024 instead of the earlier planned 2021 when the contract was awarded.

They appear to be losing control of the project. The regional newspaper report that the whole project may be in jeopardy. It is also interesting to note that the contract value was significantly below budget. The contract was awarded in 2016 for € 388 million, while the project is budgeted at € 681 million. No clear explanation for the € 300 million (!) gap has been provided by officials.


----------



## keber

^^ Appears to be a victim of "cheapest first" policy. It seems that contractor offered unrealistically low price and now he can't do its job in given time (maybe it can't find appropriate subcontractors).


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> They appear to be losing control of the project. The regional newspaper report that the whole project may be in jeopardy. It is also interesting to note that the contract value was significantly below budget. The contract was awarded in 2016 for € 388 million, while the project is budgeted at € 681 million. No clear explanation for the € 300 million (!) gap has been provided by officials.


Somehow these 300 million Euros need to be funded. I can't see the contractor taking such a big hit on the project.

Great news indeed about the Blankenburgtunnel.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

keber said:


> ^^ Appears to be a victim of "cheapest first" policy. It seems that contractor offered unrealistically low price and now he can't do its job in given time (maybe it can't find appropriate subcontractors).


The Netherlands doesn't use the "cheapest offer wins" policy, but uses "Best Value Procurement". It's quite common that the cheapest bidder doesn't get the project. 

What's weird about this delay is that it didn't occur halfway through construction. They barely begun large-scale construction, and they already racked up a 3 year delay. 

The other contenders in the bidding process won't be so happy about this, losing to a bid that misses its deadline by such a large amount. Such delays are generally uncommon in Dutch road construction, most projects are delivered on time or ahead of schedule.


----------



## Grzegorz.Janoszka

ChrisZwolle said:


> It is also interesting to note that the contract value was significantly below budget. The contract was awarded in 2016 for € 388 million, while the project is budgeted at € 681 million. No clear explanation for the € 300 million (!) gap has been provided by officials.



Can't an offer be rejected because it is unrealistically cheap? In some countries it happens. It prevents construction from being halted/delayed by many years.
Didn't anyone appeal for such a low price?


----------



## Koesj

The companies who made a combined bid aren't your 'usual suspects' of underbidding (oftentimes foreign) contractors that I thankfully only ever hear about in other countries' threads. 

It's four (semi-) local mid-level contractors plus two big German construction companies who do mostly specialized and overhead stuf IIRC. What might have happened is that they made a low bid because of the worse economic situation of even two years ago, and were banking on being able to get relatively low-cost personnel in (plus one-person independent contractors, a huge part of the Dutch economy). This is an actual official reason that was given for the project's delay and I can see the logic behind it. Now the project is undermanned and presto: 3 years of delays.

The problem with these four smaller Dutch contracting companies might also be that they lack the requisite experience in managing such a complex project. Max Bögl and Züblin should be helping out massively here, but hey we all know how smooth German construction projects tend to go


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I took a look at the website of those 4 companies. They are all small, regional construction companies which typically do resurfacing, reconstruction and small road projects. They appear to totally lack any experience with large multi-hundred million projects. 

So that expertise should be coming from Züblin and Max Bögl. While they are large German construction companies, they are almost unknown in Dutch road construction. I found only one Dutch road project where Züblin participated in, as part of the Strabag Group, which was part of the consortium that expanded A15 (and that was a big money losing project for them). I could not find any Dutch road project that Max Bögl has done, foreign companies typically do not compete in the Netherlands except as an investor.


----------



## Suburbanist

are the costs to be disbursed as availability payments?


----------



## snowdog

MrAronymous said:


> Which are free? They're not. And they are far more maintenance intensive compared to rail. Rail is always cheaper in the long run.


What rubbish, rail would be bankrupt many times, road users contribute more than eight times what they get back in infrastructure, while public transport is not sustainable, it needs billions in subsidies. Metro in R'dam is only just breaking even and being called successful.


> But about regular city high density: 5+ storey city blocks with private gardens in the middle. About half of Amsterdam is already like that and it works really well.


Works really well? 020 is a ****hole any sane person avoids like the plague, bloody open sewer, no mobility at all. I have to be there for work once in a while and always cringe at just the thought. Amsterdammers are not Dutch, they're Amsterdammers. Odd people, very unfriendly (probably from living in such a dense area/lack of space causing friction), and probably the worst municipality government possible (just left wing eco hippies, socialists, and others that wish to tax everyone to hell).



> You only have to look at Belgium to see what you don't want our country to be (basically everything you just suggested).


It's nicer to live in BE than in NL.



> Uhm, it's a way more efficient way of building than low density. The initial costs might be higher, but rail transit lasts longer and can serve way more people. In all the super low density that you can find elsewhere in the world, like North America, there is way more km² of roads to maintain per person. And roads degrade very quickly compared to rail. Plus you'd have to build parking garages for cars, which is expensive as hell, compared to bike garages or rail infrastructure.


Rail infrastructure is way more expensive to run than roads... Look at the bloody budget...



> We don't want to become like Belgium, trust me. Our country has half the population of Canada yet is 240 times smaller.


Belgians actually live far nicer than Dutch imo, on average much more real estate space per person. Living is much cheaper in Belgium, and you can buy or rent far nicer houses for the same price than in price inflated Holland.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The concept of "externalities" is mostly theoretical cost, and most the real cost is covered through insurances instead of direct taxes.

Somehow you only see this "external cost" reasoning in regards of road traffic, when do you read about external cost of train traffic? Or ports? Or airports? 

Also, the huge benefits of a road system are often not mentioned in such discussions. The road system enables every part of the economy. Everything you see around you, from the chair you're sitting on, the phone or computer you're typing this message on, the building you work in. The electricity grid that provides your power. The piping that provides your water. The groceries in your supermarket, everything is possible due to the road system and the trucks that use them to transport it.


----------



## Stuu

ChrisZwolle said:


> The concept of "externalities" is mostly theoretical cost, and most the real cost is covered through insurances instead of direct taxes.
> 
> Somehow you only see this "external cost" reasoning in regards of road traffic, when do you read about external cost of train traffic? Or ports? Or airports?
> 
> Also, the huge benefits of a road system are often not mentioned in such discussions. The road system enables every part of the economy. Everything you see around you, from the chair you're sitting on, the phone or computer you're typing this message on, the building you work in. The electricity grid that provides your power. The piping that provides your water. The groceries in your supermarket, everything is possible due to the road system and the trucks that use them to transport it.


Absolutely, and that is the reason societies choose to bear the costs of the road system over and above what is paid through fuel and road taxes.

However, externalities are a real costs, air pollution causes thousands of early deaths and hospital admissions. How many people die on the roads in the Netherlands every year on the roads? Quite a few more than on rails, per million km or whatever comparable metric you choose. That's a real cost.

Rail traffic has less externalities as trains crash less often, don't need constant policing such as speed enforcement. And are generally electric in most advanced countries so don't cause local air quality issues, and electricity can be sourced from renewables.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A28 km 100.0 in Zwolle. 

It's interesting how quiet the pavement is. This project has used a double layer of porous asphalt, which can reduce noise by as much as 6 - 9 dB, depending on your base level. Which is really a significant reduction. 

I was standing less than 10 meters from traffic going 120 km/h. Of course you can clearly hear it, but it's not obnoxiously loud, you can have a conversation without having to raise your voice. I've stood along many motorways in Europe and have experienced some as extremely loud. Not here.


A28 km 100 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Manitoba-rotonde*

The Manitoba roundabout.

Named after the Canadian 12th Manitoba Dragoons Regiment that played a significant role during the liberation of Ommen in April 1945

Manitoba roundabout-1 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A6 Almere*

A6 at Almere is currently under a weekend closure.

They are shifting traffic to the future local lanes, so that the old lanes can be rebuilt. 


DSCN6823 by DutchRoadMovies, on Flickr


DSCN6809 by DutchRoadMovies, on Flickr


----------



## squirrelq

*A15 extension new bridge location*

20180721_155546-PANO by https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr

The location of the new bridge on the A15 extension, looking westward.
The river is actually a canal, Pannerdens Kanaal.

Almost exactly on the same location (below the canal) is the tunnel of the Betuwe line, a rail track.


----------



## snowdog

Compilation of priority errors or red light runners that result in near hits or hinderance from the last year. English dubbed now!
Pretty much the same cause as in Russian video's except here, it never leads to a crash as someone always brakes in the end.

Rotterdam area again .


----------



## da_scotty

^^
*sigh*


----------



## KIWIKAAS

I reckon at 2.49 you're about to pull a tricky manoeuvre yourself 

Very familiar roads for me....


----------



## satanism

KIWIKAAS said:


> I reckon at 2.49 you're about to pull a tricky manoeuvre yourself
> 
> Very familiar roads for me....


lol my thought exactly...and i don't know those roads at all


----------



## ChrisZwolle

squirrelq said:


> 20180721_155546-PANO by https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, on Flickr
> 
> The location of the new bridge on the A15 extension, looking westward.
> The river is actually a canal, Pannerdens Kanaal.
> 
> Almost exactly on the same location (below the canal) is the tunnel of the Betuwe line, a rail track.


Interestingly, there is still no definitive bridge design. They want to give the contractor room to implement his own design. 

It will be a circa 200 meter span, it could be a cable-stayed bridge as the span is pretty long for a regular concrete cantilevered bridge. It could be the longest in the Netherlands if they decide to build a concrete cantilevered span.


----------



## squirrelq

*A15 extension*

20180721_140024 by Wie Rook, on Flickr

Looking eastward. The building in the distance is the tunnel entrance of the Betuwe Line rail track. The A15 will run just left of it.

20180721_171108 by Wie Rook, on Flickr
Just north-east of the Zevenaar-Duiven rail track. There will be a small tunnel here in the A15, diving the railtrack.

20180721_172737 by Wie Rook, on Flickr
Close to the future interchange A12/A15 (De Liemers) looking south-west.
The A15 will be left of the electricity supply.

20180721_172742 by Wie Rook, on Flickr
Cables being shifted, because of the A15.

20180721_172603 by Wie Rook, on Flickr
Look at resting area Oudbroeken, future interchange De Liemers (A15/A12).


----------



## kosimodo

snowdog said:


> Compilation of priority errors or red light runners that result in near hits or hinderance from the last year. English dubbed now!
> Pretty much the same cause as in Russian video's except here, it never leads to a crash as someone always brakes in the end.
> 
> Rotterdam area again .



With a slightly different driving style from your side a lot of situations would have been avoided. No wonder so many people are blowing their horn at you.. 

Take it easy. Read the traffic: give room.


----------



## snowdog

Low tolerance for priority failures, I like complaining about people who don't yield when they should, these are the people who cause you to slow down. If people would respect and correctly utilise the right of way we'd be able to drive much faster. What do you mean give room, I gave everyone room otherwise I'd crash into them: but insurance wise, I'd win 100% of any of those situations if a crash happened (only the cyclists not, as they are protected by law and they feel invincible as a result, bah).

Which horns? the Golf is the only one blowing his horn (first vid), all the others are my horn. Or completely unrelated to me (eg. the Mini and Prius horning each other).

Respect the right of way:

Yield when changing lanes.
Yield when the signs/markings tell you to.
Yield to traffic from the right when there are no markings/signs.
Don't run red lights, or at least only do so when you are 100% sure nobody has to adjust their speed/brake for you.
Don't be a driver that forces your slowpoke speed onto others.

A lot of people feel entitled these days ''they will make room for me'' or ''they will wait for me'' or ''meh I'm overtaking let them brake for me''.


----------



## keokiracer

kosimodo said:


> With a slightly different driving style from your side a lot of situations would have been avoided. No wonder so many people are blowing their horn at you..


wtf are you on about, are you even watching the same video? He got honked at once, by the first guy who blindly cut across two lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N434 Leiden*

New aerial photos of the N434 / Rijnland Route project around the south side of Leiden. The tunneled expressway will link A4 and A44.

1. The A4/N434 interchange









2. The pit where the tunnel boring machine will start its journey in July 2019. It will be a 2.2 kilometer long tunnel.









3. The A44/N434 interchange








_All photos by Comol5_


----------



## snowdog

Drove past there last sunday and was surprised at the progress.

2 things I also noted on the A4:
Trajectcontrole/SPECS/average speed check zone is gone?
Speed limit is always 100 now, (it was 130 in evening and night).

Anyhow, nice to see it taking shape .


----------



## keokiracer

snowdog said:


> Trajectcontrole/SPECS/average speed check zone is gone?


I hope so, passed there last friday with 120 on speedmeter NB after I noticed the entry-portal was missing


----------



## snowdog

They compensated on sunday with a laser speed trap on the A4 near Delft-Zuid:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

If they have motorcycle cops standing by it's probably more than just a speed trap to ticket everyone going 5 km/h too fast. Perhaps they are catching people using cell phones while driving.


----------



## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> If they have motorcycle cops standing by it's probably more than just a speed trap to ticket everyone going 5 km/h too fast.


If they are lasergaming it usually starts from like Vmax+30


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 expansion*

A1 is being widened from 2x2 to 2x4 lanes between Eemnes (A27) and Amersfoort.

The whole project is done in 1.5 years. And that includes no 24/7 workzones and they take the vacation off.

The reason why Dutch road projects can be built relatively fast with little impact on traffic flow is that most motorways were designed with a 13 meter obstacle-free zone. This space can be used as a workspace and for the additional lanes.

Here's a before/after comparison, where the motorway is expanded from 4 to 8 lanes without having to expand the right-of-way. It's a huge benefit.










In many other countries you will often see a shoulder with a guardrail right next to it, with the embankment sloping down immediately. This means that a future expansion is much more expensive due to land acquisition, earthworks and traffic is impacted more severely due to the lack of work space, which is an important factor for the many narrow construction zones in Germany.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*S116 Amsterdam*

A photo of S116 in Amsterdam. It was lowered a while ago for the construction of the North/South subway line. The project appeared to have been completed in 2012 but the subway did not enter service until last month.


DSCN7065 by DutchRoadMovies, on Flickr


----------



## Wilhem275

There are just a few examples of this "rail in road" setup in Europe, and two of them are in Amsterdam


----------



## Spookvlieger

A1 in Belgium between Brussels and Mechelen has this setup as well, although not as narrow since there was a lot more room as the superhighway was never constructed in that place.


----------



## da_scotty

And in the Ruhr several S-bahn/tram section's between the road. Belgian A12 near the Dutch border.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Arnhem*

A12/A50 was under a westbound closure this week due to a renovation. They decided to shut down the entire motorway for 10 days instead of having to work for weeks or months. 

The renovation was very succesful, the closure was lifted this morning, 2 days ahead of schedule. During the closure they resurfaced the entire motorway, replaced bridge joints, did concrete maintenance on bridges and replaced guardrails. 

That section carries 130,000 vehicles per day on 2x3 lanes, so a closure through the week has had some impact, but delays were manageable. Traffic was mostly detoured via A50-A1 or N325. There was traffic congestion, but no gridlock.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Ice cream was distributed to workers on A73 near Roermond. They are resurfacing the motorway with new asphalt, with temperatures reaching 37°C.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A28 Zeist*

A28 is closed this weekend just east of Utrecht where an unused railroad bridge is being demolished.

This section of A28 has an interesting history. The route was officially chosen in 1963, construction of the railroad bridge began in 1968, and the motorway started construction in 1969. The railroad bridge was only used for some freight trains in the late 1960s and early 1970s, the railroad was decommissioned in 1972, long before A28 was put into service. A28 did not open to traffic until 1985-1986 due to noise concerns. So traffic on A28 has never crossed paths with the active railroad. 

There was some urban legend that the railroad bridge was a disguise for some top secret kerosene pipeline to the Soesterberg air force base that the Soviets should not know about. At that time, the mid-to late 1980s, traffic passed under the railroad bridge but no train has ever passed over traffic there.


----------



## Wilhem275

A bit closer to Utrecht, still on A28: is this an abandoned/unbuilt interchange?

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.0936402,5.1981459,349m/data=!3m1!1e3


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, it was planned to become an expressway on the western edge of Zeist: provincial road S8.

The interchange was built in the late 1960s and early 1970s as part of the A28 construction, but S8 was never built. It is now a wildlife crossing.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Echt*

A nice aerial photo of A2 near Echt, Limburg province. It shows the motorway with shoulder lanes, there are plans to expand it to a true six lane motorway in the near future.









Photo by Rijkswaterstaat


----------



## EdiPires

ChrisZwolle said:


> A nice aerial photo of A2 near Echt, Limburg province. It shows the motorway with shoulder lanes, there are plans to expand it to a true six lane motorway in the near future.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo by Rijkswaterstaat




That's good news. I've never seen that stretch of motorway not busy. Let's hope that a real 2x3 improves the traffic in that area.


----------



## marcobruls




----------



## Suburbanist

That photo is nice, the new and the old Maas


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Two trucks hauling an oversized load from Austria destined for Ireland got stuck on an A15 offramp. They missed their exit to the ferry and could not make the turn elsewhere. 

They will now build a temporary road from sand and steel plates to make the turn. The soil is delicate due to underground pipelines in this industrial area.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

ChrisZwolle said:


> Ice cream was distributed to workers on A73 near Roermond. They are resurfacing the motorway with new asphalt, with temperatures reaching 37°C.


That's awesome =D It's *NOT* fun working out in that heat and I can speak from experience on that....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Noord Bridge*

The bridge across the Noord River (North River) near Alblasserdam, shortly before opening in 1939.










This bridge is located just east of Rotterdam, it's kind of unbelievable that it carried all traffic on A15 until the Noord Tunnel opened to traffic in 1992, with six lanes. The bridge still exists today and carries local & hazmat traffic.

1989:

















Photos by _Rijkswaterstaat_


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N323 Prince Willem-Alexander Bridge*

After the Genova bridge collapse, the media began to identify bridges in the Netherlands that "are the same". This included nearly all cable-stayed bridges in their reporting, even if they are completely different types of bridges. Some media even called the Genova bridge a "suspension bridge". 

However one bridge in the Netherlands has a common issue: concrete cable stays. The Prince Willem-Alexander Bridge across the Waal River east of Tiel. It was built in 1974. It is the only bridge of this type in the Netherlands.

However other than the concrete cables, there aren't that many similarities. It is a box girder bridge whose main span is extended by the cables. The pylons are completely different. There are two cables instead of one. The deck is different. The dimensions are significantly different.


DSC_0012.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0023.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


DSC_0011.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


----------



## Wilhem275

How do they manage the issue of inspecting the cables embedded in concrete?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Amsterdam*

The Gaasperdam Tunnel of A9 in Amsterdam is getting more and more completed. The tunnels for the collector and express lanes are complete. The center tube for the reversible lane still needs a roof. It probably won't open until the A9 eight lane expansion through Amstelveen is completed.









Photo by _Rijkswaterstaat_.


----------



## Attus

N271. What kind of sense does that make?


----------



## snowdog

Keep slow farm traffic from the rest...

But yeah, in a normal place both lanes would be open for everyone. Or farm vehicles would get/use a different slower road.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ there is a motorway in Quebec, Canada where a short section is allowed tractors to run.

There is some kind of sensor and when the tractor hits the road, the speed limit changes from MAX 100 / 60 min to MAX 90 (same as a regular road) 30 km/h min

the 10 km seems kind of pointless :lol: but it seems working fine.

https://translate.google.com/transl...ucs-bizarres-sur-cette-autoroute/&prev=search


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ They finally provided some more information.

During an inspection they registered an unusual ticking sound, but it took some time to localize the source. It was found in a connection between a horizontal and vertical element on the steel beam. They did a load test on it last night and have now reopened all lanes, so I guess they found it satisfactory.

The bridge has a renovation scheduled for 2021, which is 60 years after its opening.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N301 Nijkerk Bridge*

The renovation of the Nijkerk Bridge of N301 has been completed on 27 August. 

The bridge is part of a sluice and links Gelderland and Flevoland provinces. It was built between 1963 and 1965 in anticipation of the creation of Flevoland province, which became dry land a few years later.

The bridge was designed for class 45, a common bridge design in the early-mid-1960s. However as it is one of the few links to Flevoland province and the increased weight of heavy trucks, they wanted to upgrade it to class 60, the highest design class in the Netherlands. Which means it is now designed for trucks up to 60 tons. 

They replaced some of the beams with lower ones to improve clearance for N704 traffic on the Flevoland side.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N307 Hoorn - Kampen*

The dam from Enkhuizen to Lelystad was closed last weekend. Flevoland province took the opportunity to renumber N302 to N307. The remainder of N302 from Hoorn to Enkhuizen will also be renumbered to N307 once the upgrade project is completed by late 2018. 

This means N302's length has been cut half, from 97 to 40 kilometers. And N307's length has more than tripled, from 24 to 79 kilometers.

Since about 2002, N302 had a gap in Lelystad. It was rerouted to A6 north of the city and then continued on A6 south of the city. 

New N307:









New N302:


----------



## da_scotty

Is the N307 the future N23?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

_Rijksweg 23_ was a relatively late addition to the motorway plan, back in 1988 it was added to the so-called _Tweede Structuurschema Verkeer en Vervoer_ (2nd structure plan for traffic) as a motorway from Alkmaar to Zwolle, creating a new east-west link between North Holland and Eastern Netherlands. It was later downgraded to a non-motorway, called N23.

Although "N23" is still used as a working name, it is not signed and I don't think it ever will be. N23 is a national road number while the projects are now by the provinces, so a 3-digit number is more fitting. 

N307 is out of its region to be in North Holland, but so was N302. It was the only N300-series in North Holland.


----------



## General Maximus

So 2-digits are inter-province, and 3-digits are within-province only, with certain exceptions?
And how are those numbers allocated?

In the UK it's all done by regions, mostly coming out of London. For example:

1: London to Anglia and the North-East
2: London-South-East (South-East London, Kent, Sussex)
3: London to the South-West (South-West London to Hampshire and westwards)
4: West-London to the west and Wales

etc etc


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Historically, only the national roads had signed numbers, they had 1 or 2 digit numbers (3-digit being reserved for administrative purposes).

The current numbering scheme for provincial roads was created in 1993 when most remaining non-motorway national roads were transferred to provincial governments. They were given 3-digit numbers.

In the provincial road numbering plan, there are two classes; the primary routes (N200 to N399) and secondary routes (N400 to N999). The secondary routes are generally not signed while the primary routes are almost always signed. 

The primary routes are numbered in clusters, with several provinces forming a cluster of sequentially numbered roads. For example N200 - N250 are mostly in North Holland, South Holland & Utrecht, whereas N250 - N299 are mostly in the south, N300 to N350 in the east and N350 - N399 mostly in the north. 

Several numbers in the N190-range were added later, mostly in the west. 

Similarly, the N400 - N999 routes are also clustered, but since these routes are short and generally not signed, few people are aware of them. Most maps tend to display them though, and they are noted on the hectometer posts.


----------



## General Maximus

So, pretty much the same as in the UK, where a district gets allocated a set of numbers. Unimportant routes do have a number, but not signposted as such; I suppose they are comparable with D-routes in France, B-routes in the UK or L-routes in Germany.

In the UK, B-routes still start with the number au-pair with motorways and major A-routes in that region. For example, in Kents all numbers begin with 2, regardless the status of the route.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

N307 on the Lelystad - Enkhuizen dam:


DSCN8115 by DutchRoadMovies, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A24 Rotterdam*

A groundbreaking ceremony is planned for Monday 17 September to start construction on the new A24 motorway west of Rotterdam. The new motorway will link A15 and A20 through the new Blankenburg Tunnel.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N7 Groningen*

There appears to be a movement that the current contractor for the N7 reconstruction in Groningen may be kicked out or step out of the project.

Earlier this week it was reported that some politicians want to cancel the contract. Now there are reports that the "Herepoort" consortium stops with the project, though they have denied that on Twitter. But people also report that signs with Herepoort promotion have been removed from the construction zone. Newspapers also report that there is almost no construction activity anymore.

It wouldn't surprise me if things would change significantly. They have hardly started the project and already racked up a 3 year delay, which is unheard of in Dutch road construction. 

The Herepoort consortium is composed of 4 small regional construction companies with no prior experience with a project of this magnitude. They are construction companies usually involved in resurfacing and local small-scale construction, not a large complex urban motorway project worth hundreds of millions. 

Typically major motorway projects in the Netherlands are done by large, experienced construction companies (Heijmans, BAM, Ballast-Nedam, Dura Vermeer, Strukton, VolkerWessels and TBI). Regional contractors are uncommon to win major contracts like this. The last time this happened, there was also a delay / substandard / unusual construction practices (Van der Lee at the Joure A6/A7 interchange).

We'll have to wait and see how this pans out.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Fuel stations along Dutch motorways are auctioned off every year. The highest bidder gets a 15 year concession to operate a fuel station and shop. 

17 concessions went out to bid this week, resulting in € 126 million revenue for the government. The highest bid was € 24 million for the Bijleveld rest area along A12 near Harmelen (west of Utrecht). It was considered a shockingly high bid. Almost 100,000 people pass this service area along A12 eastbound every day. 

These concessions make money mostly through food and convenience store sales, fuel sales are becoming of secondary importance. The fuel prices are so high that by far most people fuel up on a local unmanned fuel station. There can be as much as € 0.20 per liter difference between motorway service areas and automated stations.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*MONO*

A new traffic safety campaign has started.

Avoid distractions
drive MONO
undisturbed on the road​
It sounds pretty lame to me. The "MONO" reference makes little sense.


----------



## da_scotty

Ah well, although BOB is a acronym, it didn't make sense in the beginning either. Now it's part of everyday language/driving.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N242 Alkmaar*

The Leeghwater Bridge is a drawbridge of N242 across the North Holland Canal near Alkmaar. It is currently under reconstruction, but flaws by the contractor have caused significant delays.

The bridge consists of two spans, the southbound span was built in the early 1950s, the northbound span in the late 1970s. N242 was upgraded to a controlled-access expressway between 2005 and 2008, with 2 lanes southbound and 3 lanes northbound. At 62,000 vehicles per day, it is one of the busiest non-motorways in the Netherlands.

Due to the age, the 1952 span would be replaced and the 1976 span would be renovated. The 1976 span has been renovated from 2017 into early 2018. Construction on the 1952 span replacement began in early 2018, but works were stopped in May due to defects in the technical design by the contractor. 

The contractor is Friso, a regional construction company from Sneek. According to their portfolio, this would be their largest and most complex bridge project so far. 

Unfortunately, this is the third recent example of a small construction company being unable to deliver on a high-profile project. They appear to be lacking in-house expertise.

The works would resume by October, resulting in a 6 month delay. The narrow 2+2 setup on the other bridge causes frequent congestion, so motorists in the region are very unhappy to be stuck in traffic for half a year while no works were performed.

The North Holland Canal has few bridge crossings. The canal isn't that large, but the Leeghwater Bridge is the only bridge between Alkmaar and Krommenie. N242 is one of the most important provincial roads in North Holland.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Steenbergen*

Four years ago, A4 finally opened to traffic around Steenbergen in Southwestern Netherlands. It included a small aquaduct.









_Photo by Rijkswaterstaat_


----------



## General Maximus

To me, this is the best route now from Amsterdam to Antwerp and further. Even that toll tunnel at Antwerp docks is a small price to pay compared to the ever increasing mayhem at the Kennedy side of Antwerp...


----------



## General Maximus

Facebook has reminded me today of a photo that I have taken two years ago today of a very futuristic looking A4 near Delft. I think I was heading towards Amsterdam. That new A4 link from The Hague to Rotterdam is brilliant!


----------



## da_scotty

But already it's jammed a lot. Should really haven been 3+3 Den Haag-Rotterdam from the start! But it's a nice motorway and barely noticable from the surrounding landscape.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I saw photos that had a lot of graffiti on those walls.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

New "MONO" campaign signs.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A24 Rotterdam*

A photo of the A24 groundbreaking ceremony today:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Hilversum - Amersfoort*

The A1 expansion has been completed today. A 9 kilometer section from the Eemnes interchange (A1/A27) to the Amersfoort-West exit has been expanded from four to eight lanes. The construction time was 14 months. Three bridges needed to be expanded.

The A1 widening is part of a PPP to expand both A1 and A27. The A27 expansion is planned to be completed next month. The A1 expansion has been completed three months ahead of the already ambitious schedule. Construction ran from July 2017 to September 2018.


----------



## ChasingCars

ChrisZwolle said:


> The A1 expansion has been completed today. A 9 kilometer section from the Eemnes interchange (A1/A27) to the Amersfoort-West exit has been expanded from four to eight lanes. The construction time was 14 months. Three bridges needed to be expanded.
> 
> 
> 
> The A1 widening is part of a PPP to expand both A1 and A27. The A27 expansion is planned to be completed next month. The A1 expansion has been completed three months ahead of the already ambitious schedule. Construction ran from July 2017 to September 2018.




Drove that stretch this afternoon rush-hour. A big progress, especially in combination with the also recently widened A27 to Utrecht.


----------



## Pell0

Drove the A27 saturday night while they were working on the interchange and southbound lanes. 

Will the A27 between Utrecht and Eemnes stay 120 kp/h?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The government has unveiled the 2019 budget.

The Infrastructure Fund amounts to € 7.3 billion in 2019, the highest in many years.

Simplified:
* motorways & national roads: € 3.1 billion
* railroads: € 2 billion
* regional/local infrastructure: € 0.2 billion
* Waterways: € 1.3 billion
* Megaprojects / other: € 0.7 billion

Spending on motorways & national roads is the highest since 2011. The 2019 budget is almost a full billion euros higher than in 2016 for motorways & national roads. Most of this is due to overprogramming the fund in earlier years, so they had to raise funding.

If you look more closely:

* operations, maintenance & replacement: € 675 million
* construction: € 1467 million (more than double that of 2018)
* scoping & planning: € 531 million (this is an article which they use for incidental grants and short-term funding to be allocated according to political decisions, it varies heavily by year)
* PPP: € 371 million
* Rijkswaterstaat: € 583 million

The € 1467 million for construction is more than double that of 2018 and the highest in the 2017-2023 budget cycles. 

The construction budget is raised from € 415 - € 530 million in 2017-2018 to € 1.2 - 1.4 billion in 2019-2023.

Funding for replacement of road infrastructure is also planned to multiply; from € 52-53 million in 2017-2018 to € 135 million in 2018 and € 245-267 million per year in 2022-2023.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*road projects*

Road projects under construction (thick red), in preparation (thin red dotted), in planning (shaded red) and under consideration (orange), as adopted in the 2019 budget.


MIRT 2019 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> The government has unveiled the 2019 budget.
> 
> The Infrastructure Fund amounts to € 7.3 billion in 2019, the highest in many years.
> 
> Simplified:
> * motorways & national roads: € 3.1 billion
> * railroads: € 2 billion
> * regional/local infrastructure: € 0.2 billion
> * Waterways: € 1.3 billion
> * Megaprojects / other: € 0.7 billion
> 
> Spending on motorways & national roads is the highest since 2011. The 2019 budget is almost a full billion euros higher than in 2016 for motorways & national roads. Most of this is due to overprogramming the fund in earlier years, so they had to raise funding.
> 
> If you look more closely:
> 
> * operations, maintenance & replacement: € 675 million
> * construction: € 1467 million (more than double that of 2018)
> * scoping & planning: € 531 million (this is an article which they use for incidental grants and short-term funding to be allocated according to political decisions, it varies heavily by year)
> * PPP: € 371 million
> * Rijkswaterstaat: € 583 million
> 
> The € 1467 million for construction is more than double that of 2018 and the highest in the 2017-2023 budget cycles.
> 
> The construction budget is raised from € 415 - € 530 million in 2017-2018 to € 1.2 - 1.4 billion in 2019-2023.
> 
> Funding for replacement of road infrastructure is also planned to multiply; from € 52-53 million in 2017-2018 to € 135 million in 2018 and € 245-267 million per year in 2022-2023.


While a good step, the budget should easily be quadrupled.

Infrastructure is something that always pays itself back in economic growth after a while.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Gouda - Utrecht*

Regional partners and other stakeholders have signed a declaration of intention to address problems on A12 between Gouda and Utrecht. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1042751584445317120
This section of A12 has 2x4 lanes (somewhat more approaching the A2/A12 interchange). Traffic volumes range from 160,000 to 200,000 vehicles per day. 

A 10 lane expansion makes most sense, especially between Bodegraven (N11) and Oudenrijn (A2). Maybe 12 lanes between Woerden and Oudenrijn. 

The median has sufficient width for additional lanes.


A12 Harmelen-13 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## snowdog

Good, it was naïeve to think a 2x4 lane motorway, can handle the traffic from 2x3 (A12) 2x2 (A20, Future 2x3) and the N11 (2x2 lanes).

That's jamming 7 lanes of through traffic into 4. Complete lack of future proofing and supplying for the demand of motorists by the government.


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## verfmeer

^^ The Gouwe Aquaduct is limited to 2x4 lanes, the N11 at Bodegraven interchange to 2x1. So if you expand beyond 2x5 the chokepoint will only move, not disappear.


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## ChrisZwolle

5 lanes could fit under the Gouwe Aquaduct easily. Six may be a stretch, if the lanes are narrowed and the shoulders are used entirely. I doubt if that is something to be desired.

The idea was that the adjacent Amalia Bridge would relieve A12 through the aquaduct, but so far it's a fail, usage of the bridge is way lower than expected. It doesn't help that there are a couple of traffic lights and lower speed limit.


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## belerophon

snowdog said:


> While a good step, the budget should easily be quadrupled.
> 
> Infrastructure is something that always pays itself back in economic growth after a while.


Thats something only economists could say, and its nevertheless untrue of course. Its like the old idea, that lower taxes pay themselves back, which never happened. So at first, it won't pay back equally. Second, economic growth as a whole is nothing only good, which was discussed many times before. Not counting any pollution or destruction of environment or rising noise levels. Third, to count economic growth: The idea of GDP is crap itself. If the amount of crashs rise, GDP rises. The replacement of damaged cars, the replacement of damaged roads or bridges, the treatment of people in hospitals and the work police, insurancies and the justice do increases GDP. Its the same with other things: Drink more alcohol, the National health sertvice gets more to do, this will increase GDP (if you don't die and stop consuming).

I guess everyone in this forum likes to see good infrastructure, but this goes way to far.


----------



## Uppsala

ChrisZwolle said:


> A12 Harmelen-13 by European Roads, on Flickr



I like the lights here. It's old classic catenary lightning. Typical old-fashioned motorway feeling. Even though they disappear more and more, there are still some of these in the Netherlands :happy:


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## Spookvlieger

You can find the same type near the Belgian border on the A76

In Belgium there never was this type of lighting but we have the 'bulls horns' and they are dissapearing as well.


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## Uppsala

joshsam said:


> You can find the same type near the Belgian border on the A76
> 
> In Belgium there never was this type of lighting but we have the 'bulls horns' and they are dissapearing as well.



I know! The Belgian lighting of that type of 'bulls horns' was wonderful. I know that even these disappear more and more, but some are still left.

Belgian lighting has its style and it looks different to that in the Netherlands.

The Netherlands has the same style as the UK. Especially these catenary lights in the Netherlands are identical to those that were put up in the UK at the same time


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## Turf

snowdog said:


> Good, it was naïeve to think a 2x4 lane motorway, can handle the traffic from 2x3 (A12) 2x2 (A20, Future 2x3) and the N11 (2x2 lanes).
> 
> That's jamming 7 lanes of through traffic into 4. Complete lack of future proofing and supplying for the demand of motorists by the government.


Now how wide can a road become while still functioming. I mean 4 lanes ok. 5 works. But at what point should you split the road in order to keep it functioning?


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## ChrisZwolle

I'm not sure if there is a definitive answer to that.

I'd say that 2x5 is generally doable (there are many in the world), but wider ones are typically split up into express and collector lanes, though you can argue that short wide sections can work. 

There are plans to expand a brief section of A8 north of Amsterdam to 2x6 lanes, from Coenplein (A10) to Zaandam (A7). That would be only some 3-4 km long.


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## Wilhem275

At a certain point, Dutch roads will become larger than long :lol:


----------



## MichiH

ChrisZwolle said:


> A groundbreaking ceremony is planned for Monday 17 September to start construction on the new A24 motorway west of Rotterdam. The new motorway will link A15 and A20 through the new Blankenburg Tunnel.





ChrisZwolle said:


> A photo of the A24 groundbreaking ceremony today:


According to the press release, the motorway is to be opened by 2024. I'm not sure that I got the press release right, have construction works already been started or will start "now"? Or is it just a symbolic act?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's a symbolic act, though preparatory works already began in early summer. It will gradually move into full-scale construction I suppose. 

2024 - it wouldn't surprise me if they manage to open it earlier. Until recently the timeline was opening in 2022-2024. 5.5 - 6 years is pretty long by Dutch standards, many other motorway projects opened earlier than scheduled, though this is a more complex project with a large tunnel. The new Coen Tunnel (A10) in Amsterdam was built in 3 years.


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## MichiH

^^ Ok, please keep us up-to-date when the "real" construction works will be started


----------



## Turf

Following the discussion about road signage in Belgium (https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=489815&page=159) there is a place in NL with totally different signs: Schiphol Airport. Why is that? Always think that is strange.


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## verfmeer

^^ Those roads are owned by the airport and use the same signage as they use inside.


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## ChrisZwolle

Airports tend to have different signage in many countries. Usually it is designed by graphic designers instead of traffic engineers.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A crowded worksite: resurfacing the Leenderheide roundabout (A2/A67) near Eindhoven. 









Photo: Heijmans


----------



## da_scotty

Turf said:


> Following the discussion about road signage in Belgium (https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=489815&page=159) there is a place in NL with totally different signs: Schiphol Airport. Why is that? Always think that is strange.


The other I can think of on a larger scale are:
-Flower/Fruit Action, especially noticable in The Westland Auction
https://www.google.nl/maps/@51.9968847,4.2280579,3a,75y,240.53h,99.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syDU2N8uG3ek0aqiQHTbI3w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
- Every IKEA uses Swedish road sign design I believe.


The signing in Almelo and Zoetermeer differs a lot from standard Dutch signing protocole as well.


----------



## keokiracer

da_scotty said:


> The other I can think of on a larger scale are:
> -Flower/Fruit Action, especially noticable in The Westland Auction
> https://www.google.nl/maps/@51.9968847,4.2280579,3a,75y,240.53h,99.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syDU2N8uG3ek0aqiQHTbI3w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


The Aalsmeer Auction is even worse:
https://www.google.nl/maps/@52.2582...bi6iVl4NLoIpZz4Hzw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N307 Enkhuizen - Lelystad*

Some footage of the driving conditions on the Enkhuizen - Lelystad dam during a windstorm.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1044164744234586112
There is a three stage restriction on the dam.

Stage 1: 16 m/s or 7 bft: speed limit goes down from 100 to 70 km/h, passing ban is implemented
Stage 2: 19 m/s or 8 bft: the dam is closed for trucks and trailers
Stage 3: 24 m/s or 9 bft: full gale, the dam is closed to all traffic


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Emmen*

The province of Drenthe and the municipality of Emmen announced a € 90 million plan to further improve N391 and N862 in and near the city of Emmen.

It is planned to upgrade the remaining sections of N391 in Emmen to a four lane divided, controlled access expressway. N862 is planned to be either expanded to a four lane divided highway, or they are going to build a service road for industrial traffic.

For this reason, there was a road ownership swap today, the urban section of N391 in Emmen has been transferred to the province, while N862 has been transferred to the municipality.

N391 and N862 upgrades: N391 forms the bypass.


----------



## MrAronymous

If that means they will move to a more sensible development pattern, go right ahead.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N246 Beatrix Bridge*

The Beatrix Bridge of N246 at Westknollendam (northwest of Amsterdam) will be replaced. For the first time ever, they installed a reusable movable bridge to keep traffic moving. 

The temporary bridge was built in segments off site and then moved to the final location in September. The old bridge will then be replaced until 2019. After the works are completed, the temporary bridge can be reused at another location.

It is reportedly the first time that a temporary movable bridge was used. 

The bridge will be renamed to the Amalia Bridge after the project is completed, because there already is another Beatrix Bridge in Zaanstad.










>> https://www.jansonbridging.nl/over-ons/nieuws/artikel/bericht/uniek-maar-geen-brug-te-ver.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15 extension*

A newspaper reports that competition for a nearly € 1 billion tender for the A15 extension near Nijmegen has dried up a bit.

VolkerWessels has decided not to bid at the last moment. Earlier, Ballast-Nedam and Sacyr decided not to bid. These are big names, which suggests that the construction worker shortage may also be affecting the Dutch highway construction sector now.

There has been a shortage of construction workers for some time, but the narrative was that the highway sector had the least shortage, compared to housing and utility construction. 

However some argue that the contract requirements weren't very favorable. A major component is the design of a new bridge crossing. It's the first time that the entire bridge may be designed by the contractor. It could be any bridge type, a box girder, cable-stayed, arch, etc. Normally the design would be regulated in the planning process.

There are now three consortia remaining;
* BAM, TBI, Heijmans, Rebel
* Dura Vermeer, Besix, Hochtief, John Laing
* Van Gelder, Macquarie, Jan de Nul

It is typical for PPP contracts of this magnitude to have a relatively low number of bidders, there are only so many construction companies capable of juggling multiple contracts of hundreds of millions at a time. 

The remaining three construction companies are established names in the Netherlands for the most part. It is typical of the Dutch highway construction sector that almost never a foreign construction company takes the lead. They are usually involved in financing and engineering only.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N7 Groningen*

A commission has been set up to deal with the process of problems that have arised with the N7 expansion in Groningen.

More previous information: https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=152242506&postcount=15697

They have identified several problems;
* the schedule of the project
* the quality of the schedule / preparation
* the quality of the works
* cooperation with the government agencies

So basically, they have problems with almost all aspects and not just the schedule. So far they could not come to an agreement and they want to avoid a legal battle. 

The commission will not address the technical issues, but rather the process: how are they going to deal with the financial issues regarding the massive delay and how are they going to improve the quality of the design and works?

The fact that they mention the quality of works is concerning, because they haven't built all that much at this point, the vast majority of construction works is still to come. 

I also wonder about the financial aspect. They won the contract based on a plan that turned out to be unrealistic. The 3-year delay will surely raise the cost beyond what is contracted, but is it reasonable for the taxpayers to pay the higher cost based on a faulty design and schedule by the contractor? 

It would not surprise me if they either step out of the contract or the contract will be rescinded. Any scenario includes years of delays, possibly beyond the three years that have been reported up until now.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A6 Almere*

An 80 meter wide viaduct is being built over A6 in Almere. A bus station will be constructed on top of it, it's the widest viaduct in Flevoland province and probably (one of) the widest in the Netherlands.

Location: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3542177,5.2119647,198m/data=!3m1!1e3


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## General Maximus

By the looks of it, right above the A6, the parallel A6-RING and just after the new exit-left onto the A27 when heading towards Amsterdam?


----------



## MichiH

MichiH said:


> *N300:* Nuth (A2) – Brunssum (N276) 5.5km (? to October 2018) – project – map
> *N300:* Brunssum (N274) – Brunssum-Rimburgerweg 3.8km (? to October 2018) – project – map


I'm not sure that I got it right but I think the first section should be opened at the beginning of next week. Can anyone confirm?

https://www.buitenring.nl/nieuws/afsluiting-nutherweg-tbv-realiseren-aansluiting-nieuwe-nutherweg/


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There is a public event this Sunday where you can run and cycle across the new expressway. It will open sometime October, they have not communicated an exact date yet.

The turbo roundabout on top of A76 will open next year.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N2 Eindhoven*

An N-road with a 130 km/h speed limit: N2 at Eindhoven.

Normally N-roads do not have speed limits higher than 100.


130 km/u bij N-weg by DutchRoadMovies, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N629 Oosterhout - Dongen*

States-provincial of North Brabant province have approved the final plans for the N629 project between Oosterhout (A27) and Dongen. This concludes 19 years of studies and procedures.

N629 will be built on a new alignment to improve the connection from Tilburg to A27. This will move traffic on a greenfield corridor, outside of the scattered developments along present N629. It will also include a new bridge across the Wilhelmina Canal. 

Studies commenced in 1999, a preferred alternative was chosen in 2008, but the province and municipality could not agree on the alternative, which led to another 8 years of studies and design. Another preferred alternative was chosen in 2016, which is now final. 49 out of 55 members of the States-provincial voted in favor, so there is broad agreement on this project now.

Construction is planned to begin 2019 but the plans will still have to be put to public comment and appeal, so it seems more likely that construction won't begin until at least late 2019.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A6 Almere*

The collector/express system of northbound A6 at Almere will be put into its final configuration during two weekend closures in October and November.

Traffic is currently driving on temporary collector lanes up to the Almere interchange (A6/A27). During the 5-8 October weekend closure, the collector lanes will be paved with a final asphalt coating and get permanent lane markings. 

The express lanes will not be put into service yet. During the 9-12 November weekend closure, the final collector lanes will be extended north to Almere Buiten-Oost and the express lanes will also be paved to its final configuration.

I think this means that the northbound expansion will be completed by November 12, with 2+2 lanes northbound. The southbound lanes will be expanded next year. The original schedule called for a completion by 2022.

The two weekend closures concern the red section:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N300 Buitenring Parkstad Limburg*

An exit of N300 at Amstenrade. Notice the large directional signs, but also the STOP signs at the roundabout, which is very uncommon.


DSCN8580 by DutchRoadMovies, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*N381 Oosterwolde*

N381 at Oosterwolde (N351 interchange). It opened in July 2017.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N307 Hoorn - Enkhuizen*

The entire upgrade project of N307 (formerly N302, working name "N23") in North Holland province will open to traffic on 30 November. Most of it is a four lane expressway.

This is the A7/N307 interchange (Hoorn-Noord).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1/A28 knooppunt Hoevelaken*

The draft environmental assessment and design for the reconstruction of the Hoevelaken motorway interchange (A1/A28) and the eight lane expansion of A1 and A28 have been published.

Visualizations can be found here: http://knooppunt-hoevelaken.nl/

First, the Hoevelaken motorway interchange. (lower left: A1 to Apeldoorn)









Hoevelaken motorway interchange (lower left: A28 to Utrecht)









The Hoevelaken exit gets a very unusual design.


















The motorway service area along A28 will be moved to the Amersfoort-Vathorst exit.


















A28 will be expanded to eight lanes in general, but the section between Leusden and the Hoevelaken motorway interchanges will be built as a collector/express system, direction of Zwolle only.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The newly built railroad bridge across A1 near Muiden has won the 2018 national steel award, category infrastructure. The bridge was replaced to accommodate the expanded A1 motorway. It has a free span of 250 meters, it is actually larger than many river crossings.









Photo: ProRail


----------



## Theijs

*[NL] The Netherlands | road infrastructure • autosnelwegen*

Funfact from the newspaper (NRC): Rijkswaterstaat uses the American ‘Highway Gothic’ script, with an interruption between 1995 and 2004: than ‘ANWB-Uu’ designed by Gerard Unger was used.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ANWB Uu has never been used by Rijkswaterstaat. Uu was also called "redesign", which was widely implemented on municipal and provincial roads, but not on national roads. Most road enthusiasts absolutely despise ANWB Uu. Uu has been discontinued nationwide since 2014.

ANWB Uu:

N763-4 by European Roads, on Flickr

Rijkswaterstaat Dd (used on all signs contracted after 2014)

N757-3 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## Slagathor

At the risk of coming across like a complete idiot; surely the fonts on those two signs are identical? I get that the lay-out of the arrows etc. is different but... the font?


----------



## MrAronymous

No.










I think all non-highway signage tends to look messy. No visual calmth.


----------



## Slagathor

Oh I see it now. Yeah the non-highway one looks less organized and crowded.


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## ChrisZwolle

One of the principles behind the "redesign" was to reduce the size of the signs and unused blue surface. However it led to more cluttered signs, especially with the increasing usage of white destinations and large number of pictograms. 

The legibility of redesign is also poor, which was one of the reasons not to implement it on motorways, in addition to the flimsy looking arrows.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*major road projects*

An update to the major road projects that are planned in the near future.

EIA = Environmental Impact Assessment (_tracébesluit_).

* A1 Apeldoorn - Azelo: 2x3-2x4 expansion. Some maintenance is planned to start this fall, major expansion works commence in 2019. Opening of new capacity in 2020-2021.
* A1/A28: expansion around Amersfoort/Hoevelaken. Draft EIA just released.
* A2 Deil - 's-Hertogenbosch: expansion in study, construction won't start until 2025.
* A2 Echt - Kerensheide: reconstruction and addition of permanent lanes in preparation, won't start until 2022 though it could legally start sooner. Lower priority.
* A4 Leiden - Den Haag: 2x4 expansion underway, may not be put entirely in service for several years awaiting construction of the Rijnland Route interchange.
* A4 Den Haag: capacity expansion planned, EIA expected in late 2020.
* A6 Almere: 4x2 expansion will likely be completed in 2019
* A6 Almere - Lelystad: 2x3 expansion planned, EIA expected in 2020
* A9 Amsterdam-Zuidoost: tunnel project to be completed in 2020. Lots of time-consuming testing involved.
* A10 Amsterdam: major construction will commence in 2019. A 12 lane tunnel will be constructed.
* A12/A15 Ressen - Zevenaar: depends on ECJ verdict in November
* A16 Rotterdam: awarded, construction commences in 2019
* A20 Rotterdam - Gouda: 2x3 expansion in preparation, EIA expected in 2020.
* A24 Rotterdam: construction has started.
* A27 Hooipolder - Utrecht: EIA expected in 2019, construction commences in 2022. Long design process due to major bridge replacements.
* A27 Utrecht - Hilversum: 2x3 expansion nearly completed. 
* A27/A12 Ring Utrecht: awaiting ECJ verdict in November
* N33 Zuidbroek - Appingedam: 2x2 expansion in planning, EIA expected in 2019.
* N35 Nijverdal - Wierden: 2x2 expansion, EIA expected in November 2018
* N50 Kampen - Kampen-Zuid: 2x2 expansion, EIA expected in 2021.
* A58 Breda: 2x3 expansion, EIA expected in 2020
* A58 Tilburg - Eindhoven: 2x3 expansion, EIA expected in 2020


----------



## Turf

And Groningen ring south, no end date yet, but they did start. A7/N7 Even was some work going on today


----------



## g.spinoza

May I ask what are the cars with blue plates I keep seeing around in Amsterdam? Are they public transport or low-emission vehicles? I'm confused because most of those cars are both.


----------



## Basnix

Taxis.


----------



## Theijs

*[NL] The Netherlands | road infrastructure • autosnelwegen*



ChrisZwolle said:


> The fourth lane on A4 also opened to traffic in the northbound direction


I drove this stretch yesterday. I noticed that not all traffic makes it to Leiden. So the actual problem is the lack of a 3rd lane northbound. Weird enough, it seems there is enough space for this 3rd lane.


----------



## verfmeer

^^ There is. It was originally planned to be 2+3+3+2 lanes past Leiden, but after appeals by environmentalist the plan was dismissed by the courts. To prevent further construction delays they kept the same plans, but removed two lanes per direction. Thankfully they kept the space reserved for them, so they are already starting procedures to widen the road to the original design.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N34 Hardenberg*

Provincial road N34 in Overijssel has been reconstructed during a 6 week closure. 

The road width has been widened to 8.5 m (this is considered wide in the Netherlands). They also built a new interchange at Hardenberg (which took longer than the mentioned six weeks). However they did replace a bridge and built a tunnel under N34 during the six week closure.

There was a public event today to mark the reopening of N34. It opened in the afternoon, I went to the public event and took some photos.

1. The new Hardenberg-Oost interchange. It's interesting how one of the principles of "Sustainable Safety" design is consistently discarded with this type of roads: they almost never implement a median, which is required.

N34 Hardenberg-1 by European Roads, on Flickr

2. Express road. This sign means 100 km/h.

N34 Hardenberg-5 by European Roads, on Flickr

3. Sign K14 indicates a route for hazardous cargo.

N34 Hardenberg-6 by European Roads, on Flickr

4. The hectometer value with a letter suffix indicates a ramp, in this case ramp C.

N34 Hardenberg-9 by European Roads, on Flickr

5. The other side has ramp B.

N34 Hardenberg-11 by European Roads, on Flickr

6. 100 km/h. It is only indicated on the full kilometer markers.

N34 Hardenberg-13 by European Roads, on Flickr

7. Typical safety design: a road marking that makes noise if you drive across it, then a rumble strip, then a hardened shoulder, and then the soft shoulder. Older roads in the Netherlands typically don't have a hardened shoulder. Grass will grow through it, making it natural yet solid.

N34 Hardenberg-16 by European Roads, on Flickr

8. There were numerous poles with a small sign indicating a polder made out of plastic foil. This foil polder keeps the underpass from flooding with ground water. It must not be punctured. I wonder if these poles are installed according to safety standards, as they are fairly close to the ramp where people can drive up to 100 km/h. It seems like a dangerous obstacle to me. It should either be a breakaway pole or have a barrier.

N34 Hardenberg-18 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A6 Almere*

A new section of local & express lanes along A6 in Almere opened to traffic this morning, in the direction of Lelystad, between exits 6 and 8.




























Photos by _Rijkswaterstaat_.


----------



## julesstoop

It looks like a rather—uhm—undulating road bed.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, a recurring problem in the Netherlands. Even long term pre-loading doesn't solve that problem entirely. 

But the photos are zoomed significantly, some undulation is accepted as long as it doesn't become a bump or rollercoaster style driving. 

N3 at Dordrecht is an example of a very uneven road, it will be significantly reconstructed in a few years.


----------



## da_scotty

Who designed this sign, it's a mixed of font centration/outlining. And looks very messy.
It looks like Buiten & utrecht are together, saying "outside Utrecht".



>


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15 extension*



ChrisZwolle said:


> A newspaper reports that competition for a nearly € 1 billion tender for the A15 extension near Nijmegen has dried up a bit.
> 
> VolkerWessels has decided not to bid at the last moment. Earlier, Ballast-Nedam and Sacyr decided not to bid. These are big names, which suggests that the construction worker shortage may also be affecting the Dutch highway construction sector now.
> 
> There has been a shortage of construction workers for some time, but the narrative was that the highway sector had the least shortage, compared to housing and utility construction.
> 
> However some argue that the contract requirements weren't very favorable. A major component is the design of a new bridge crossing. It's the first time that the entire bridge may be designed by the contractor. It could be any bridge type, a box girder, cable-stayed, arch, etc. Normally the design would be regulated in the planning process.
> 
> There are now three consortia remaining;
> * BAM, TBI, Heijmans, Rebel
> * Dura Vermeer, Besix, Hochtief, John Laing
> * Van Gelder, Macquarie, Jan de Nul
> 
> It is typical for PPP contracts of this magnitude to have a relatively low number of bidders, there are only so many construction companies capable of juggling multiple contracts of hundreds of millions at a time.
> 
> The remaining three construction companies are established names in the Netherlands for the most part. It is typical of the Dutch highway construction sector that almost never a foreign construction company takes the lead. They are usually involved in financing and engineering only.


Another consortium led by BAM+Heijmans has now also announced to withdraw from the tender for the A15 extension.

They say that the project doesn't fit in their selective bidding to acquire jobs with manageable risks and healthy margins. 

They state that this is based on the technical complexity of the project as found in the tender documentation and contract specifications about who would take on what portion of risks. 

I think this is bad news. There are now only two consortia remaining. I think you can say that the three most experienced bidders are out of the tender: BAM-Heijmans, Volker-Wessels & Ballast-Nedam. 

Dura Vermeer and Van Gelder are well established construction companies, Dura Vermeer is working on A6 in Almere right now. Van Gelder is also a reputable company but they generally don't do projects of this magnitude. Both have high-profile foreign backers for the financing part.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Lekbrug Vianen*

_Rijkswaterstaat_ has restarted the tender procedure for the removal of the old Lek River Bridge at Vianen. The bridge was built in 1936, destroyed in war and rebuilt in 1948. The bridge was part of A2 until a wider bridge was built in 1999. The bridge has since not been used, though it is still in good condition.

The bridge has now been sitting idle there for almost 20 years. There have long been plans to remove the bridge, but an initiative was started to preserve the bridge and build houses on it. They concluded this plan is not feasible. They will now restart the tender to remove the bridge. It may be reused elsewhere, but a complete scrapping is also possible.


----------



## Wilhem275

What are the reasons for removal, if it poses no risks to safety or environment?

Could even end up as a listed building, it looks nice.


----------



## Batavier

Why not preserve it as a bridge for emergency services, cyclists and pedestrians? That would make it possible to use the existing shoulders on the new bridge to expand the roads when necessary in the future.


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## General Maximus

They've started signposting Groningen from the A10 Ring around Amsterdam via route A1, A6, A7 now. They used tp post it using route A8, A7.

Is this because they have now completed the new intersection at Joure? The A6 now smoothly runs into the A7 without having to use an exit junction.


----------



## keber

Wilhem275 said:


> What are the reasons for removal, if it poses no risks to safety or environment?
> 
> Could even end up as a listed building, it looks nice.


Such bridge still needs mainteance and regular checkings of stability. Such cost grows and adds over time even if there is no traffic on it. Demolition has its costs but over time it is cheaper that maintaining unused infrastructure.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A6 Almere*

_Rijkswaterstaat_ has also announced that the A6 widening through Almere will be completed even sooner: 2019. 

Originally when the project was in development, there were some doubts whether it could be completed before the Floriade event in 2022. Now it turns out it will be completed 3 years earlier :cheers:


----------



## da_scotty

Wilhem275 said:


> What are the reasons for removal, if it poses no risks to safety or environment?
> 
> Could even end up as a listed building, it looks nice.


I believe that was one of the reasons why they waited so long with removal. It's one of the early "_grote-rivieren_-bridges and has some historical value.


----------



## TM_Germany

ChrisZwolle said:


> _Rijkswaterstaat_ has also announced that the A6 widening through Almere will be completed even sooner: 2019.
> 
> Originally when the project was in development, there were some doubts whether it could be completed before the Floriade event in 2022. Now it turns out it will be completed 3 years earlier :cheers:


It's almost unfair how ridiculously good Dutch road managing and construction is :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

keber said:


> Such bridge still needs mainteance and regular checkings of stability. Such cost grows and adds over time even if there is no traffic on it. Demolition has its costs but over time it is cheaper that maintaining unused infrastructure.


That was cited indeed. Also the safety factor of a large unattended / unmaintained structure: people getting hurt in a poorly accessible location. 

While the bridge won't spontaneously collapse, it was also said that the bridge has become very "stiff" after 20 years of inactivity following half a century of heavy traffic load (it carried 90,000 vehicles per day before it was replaced by the new bridge). Normally a large steel bridge would be going up and down continuously under the traffic load. 

There is also a sentiment in the Netherlands for keeping the country very tidy; any unnecessary / unused features will be removed.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N307 Hoorn - Enkhuizen*

A new 6 kilometer section of the four lane divided expressway N307 opened to traffic this afternoon in North Holland province. It is the Hoogkarspel bypass, where N307 is now routed south of this town instead of north it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Knooppunt Deil*

A 1987 photo from the reconstruction of the Deil interchange (A2/A15) to a cloverleaf. It's remarkable how it was just a set of traffic lights as recent as 30 years ago, with A2 now being an eight lane motorway with 140,000 vehicles per day. 

The Deil interchange used to be a large roundabout, it was reconstructed to a cloverleaf from 1985 to 1989, the traffic light intersections were a phasing during construction to move traffic out of the construction zone.










close-up:









Photos by _Rijkswaterstaat Beeldbank_


----------



## aswnl

Yes I remember that very well. The A2 was 2x2 lanes, but the Deil section had 2x3 lanes because of the traffic lights. After completion of the cloverleaf it was reduces again to 2x2 lanes. A sudden shift in alignement remained for more than 20 years, until it was widened to 2x3 through te interchange.

The original roundabout had a reservation for a flyover for the A2 motorway, but not for the A15. That was reason why the original plan for a fly-over had been replaced by building the cloverleaf.


----------



## General Maximus

And they want to remove parking areas, and make the remaining ones more expensive.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*traffic congestion development*

A new national road report has been released, the second 2018 report, covering May-August. In it are statistics about motorway usage and congestion.

First, motorway usage continued to increase significantly, it is now at 72 billion vehicle kilometers, up +10 billion (16%) since 2008. 









Congestion increased slightly, very different from those alarming media reports about massive increases of congestion in a year. They are not accurate.









Long term congestion development. It's interesting that despite a 16% growth in traffic (10 billion vehicle kilometers, almost the same as the entire train travel in the Netherlands), congestion levels remain significantly lower than 10 years ago. It has been estimated that if no capacity expansion would've been done, congestion would be 60% higher than 2008 (25 million kilometer-minutes, as opposed to the 11.7 million kilometer-minutes today).


----------



## Suburbanist

General Maximus said:


> And they want to remove parking areas, and make the remaining ones more expensive.


They want to remove on-street parking for purposes of traffic-calming and some pedestrianization with very limited bollard-controlled access (I guess). In fact, central Amsterdam has low traffic capacity within the canal belt, but anyone can drive and park (for a hefty price) a car within most canals and some narrow old streets as well. It's slow but access in unfettered.

However, the major issue is how to deal with light cargo traffic. Amsterdam is betting big on keeping the permanent population of the old core at stable levels. The area is expensive to live. That means people love to shop online and order food online and what not. Cargo bikes help but there are still much more vans now then when I first got acquainted with the city in 2009. 

They tried schemes like boat delivery, and cargo-trams, but these sound more like gimmicks than actual solutions.


----------



## General Maximus

renroz said:


> Ah, I see you meant the A28. I don't know. From Almere to the north was already less crowded instead of Hilversum > Amersfoort > Zwolle. I think A6 can manage more vehicles.


No, I actually meant the A6 route. From the A10, Groningen is now signposted using A1 and A6. It's also signposted from A2 via A9, A1, A6 now. More south it's signposted at Utrecht using A28. The A6 onto A7 is now intersected as one motorway at Joure. You have to come off at a exit-junction when wanting to go onto the A7 towards Sneek, or when coming from Sneek or going to Sneek when coming from Groningen, traffic has to come off when they wish to stay on A7.

Are you confused yet? I know I am...


----------



## Suburbanist

I didn't know that Dutch safety authorities banned those rather dangerous childcare trikes ('stint') for good.








source

They have a segway-like control, which is reported to have failed to brake in a number of occasions. Then, some months ago, 4 children where killed when one of these vehicles did not stop at a train cross in Oss.

So they decided to ban this vehicle.


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> A new national road report has been released, the second 2018 report, covering May-August. In it are statistics about motorway usage and congestion.
> (...)
> Long term congestion development. It's interesting that despite a 16% growth in traffic (10 billion vehicle kilometers, almost the same as the entire train travel in the Netherlands), congestion levels remain significantly lower than 10 years ago. It has been estimated that if no capacity expansion would've been done, congestion would be 60% higher than 2008 (25 million kilometer-minutes, as opposed to the 11.7 million kilometer-minutes today).


Seems like I had picked a golden age of road construction to live in the Netherlands (2009-17). All these projects coming online one after the other, it was hard to keep a tab of what was being built. But I was very impressed the first time I got to ride on the newly-widened A2 north of Utrecht, except for the then-low speed limit.


----------



## Kanadzie

Suburbanist said:


> I didn't know that Dutch safety authorities banned those rather dangerous childcare trikes ('stint') for good.
> 
> source
> 
> They have a segway-like control, which is reported to have failed to brake in a number of occasions. Then, some months ago, 4 children where killed when one of these vehicles did not stop at a train cross in Oss.
> 
> So they decided to ban this vehicle.


It would seem a simple design modification like the "dead-man switch" of a lawnmower or even a motorcycle-like throttle/brake control would easily solve any concern. But no must ban it entirely :bash:


----------



## woutero

General Maximus said:


> No, I actually meant the A6 route. From the A10, Groningen is now signposted using A1 and A6. It's also signposted from A2 via A9, A1, A6 now. More south it's signposted at Utrecht using A28. The A6 onto A7 is now intersected as one motorway at Joure. You have to come off at a exit-junction when wanting to go onto the A7 towards Sneek, or when coming from Sneek or going to Sneek when coming from Groningen, traffic has to come off when they wish to stay on A7.
> 
> Are you confused yet? I know I am...


Groningen was not signposted from Amsterdam/A10 before. The change to signposted destinations came a few years ago as part of a wider overhaul of signing "network hubs". Hengelo, Groningen and Almere are now signed from the A10 when going onto the A1. It used to be just Almere and Amersfoort. The change has nothing to do with the new Joure interchange, and everything to do with the new signposting system that has been rolled out throughout the country.

Turning off to stay on (TOTSO) (like at Joure) is not an uncommon thing in highways.


----------



## keokiracer

Kanadzie said:


> It would seem a simple design modification like the "dead-man switch" of a lawnmower or even a motorcycle-like throttle/brake control would easily solve any concern. But no must ban it entirely :bash:


There used to be a "dead-man switch" on it and the vehicle was approved with this switch but the switch was removed by the manufacturer and that change was never reported to the corresponding authorities.
So I don't blame the authorities for just banning the thing at this point.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

_Rijkswaterstaat_ has started a project to detect low tire pressure of trucks. An email will be automatically sent to a transportation company if low tire pressure is detected.

Low tire pressure is often the cause for a flat tire, which very often leads to lane closures and delays. "traffic jam due to a broken down truck" is very often reported and most of the time it is a flat tire.


----------



## g.spinoza

ChrisZwolle said:


> _Rijkswaterstaat_ has started a project to detect low tire pressure of trucks. An email will be automatically sent to a transportation company if low tire pressure is detected.


How do they do that? By some kind of remote sensing?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't know exactly, evidently they have some kind of sensors to detect low tire pressure. They capture license plates from the tractor and trailer to alert the trucking company.


----------



## General Maximus

A7 Afsluitdijk (Enclosure Dam) yesterday at the "Monument" rest area. On the first image you have the sea on the right hand side, the lake on the left. This stretch of road between salt and fresh water is 32 km long, and links the provinces of Friesland and North Holland together. It was constructed between 1927 and 1932. Before construction, the whole area was salt water sea.


----------



## Suburbanist

General Maximus said:


> A7 Afsluitdijk (Enclosure Dam) yesterday at the "Monument" rest area. On the first image you have the sea on the right hand side, the lake on the left. This stretch of road between salt and fresh water is 32 km long, and links the provinces of Friesland and North Holland together. It was constructed between 1927 and 1932. Before construction, the whole area was salt water sea.


It's a great sight on a crispy cold day with wind clearing the air.


----------



## MattiG

ChrisZwolle said:


> I don't know exactly, evidently they have some kind of sensors to detect low tire pressure. They capture license plates from the tractor and trailer to alert the trucking company.


Perhaps they scan the tires, and if the metrics vary more than the treshold, one or more tires may be defect. 

There are tire scanners available, and they seem to be pretty accurate, at least at low speeds. There is one at the exit of a shopping center near my home: It measures the depth of the grooves, and the results are available on the internet using the licence plate number as the key. Last time I visited the center, I compared the results with my mechanical measurement device, and the results were accurate to a millimeter.


----------



## General Maximus

woutero said:


> Groningen was not signposted from Amsterdam/A10 before. The change to signposted destinations came a few years ago as part of a wider overhaul of signing "network hubs". Hengelo, Groningen and Almere are now signed from the A10 when going onto the A1. It used to be just Almere and Amersfoort. The change has nothing to do with the new Joure interchange, and everything to do with the new signposting system that has been rolled out throughout the country.
> 
> Turning off to stay on (TOTSO) (like at Joure) is not an uncommon thing in highways.


I've also noticed recently that from Amsterdam using A2, they're now using Utrecht and Eindhoven as control cities, instead of Utrecht and Maastricht as previous. It did cross my mind that this is because of the completed refurbishing at Eindhoven, where you have to move in order to stay on A2. 

This "TOTSO" appears to be a recent thing in the Netherlands, but found out they're far more common in Germany, with for example the A3 at Oberhausen, or the A3 and A9 at Nürnberg. Not to mention the interruptions in motorways with other route numbers like A1, A4 and A8. In the Netherlands I can only think of the A4 who has that. 

Sorry for me rambling on...


----------



## Jeroen669

New trucks and trailers nowadays already often have a fully automated tire inflation system, which pumps air into the tires, if it is detected too low.


----------



## mappero

Will be A8 and A22 connected anyways soon? Why this 1.5 km missing link is not done yet? Any reason why?
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/52.4920/4.7689
I will face commuting around Alkmaar - Amsterdam in the near future and i can see it's quite busy there during peak hours...


----------



## da_scotty

There are plans, nothing concrete yet.
Several variants are being studied.

Nul-Plus variant: expanding/improving current roads
Golfcourse/Heemskerk link: new road.

Problem is that the Fort-Ring of Amsterdam is Unesco world heritage, and the new road goes past/through two of the forts.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are plans to construct the A8 missing link, it is now a provincial project as a four lane expressway with a 100 km/h speed limit.

The most direct link is obvious, the right-of-way is already in Rijkswaterstaat ownership but is leased to a golf club. Golf club = rich people = influential people. 

They are still weighing all the alternatives. The road would also run through the historic Amsterdam fortification (Stelling van Amsterdam), which means UNESCO implications. Though this fortification already has many motorways, roads, railroads and canals crossing it, UNESCO has issued a negative advice. It seems they are searching for a way to ignore the UNESCO advice.


----------



## Turf

Not a lot of space to fit it in without causing major disruption. But should happen at some point. 
Makes me wonder about all the aqueducts build last years. We better save for replacing in 2070 or something.


----------



## da_scotty

If you say that six lanes in the new aquaduct is possible. Is it possible to do a 0-3+3 set up temporary?


----------



## Koesj

Easy, they already did so for a while after construction was finished and the old aquaduct was under renovation.


----------



## Wilhem275

Had an aquaduct been replaced in any country?

Maybe they can build new walls around the old aquaduct, then replace the upper deck in two times, then the whole old structure is contained in the new one and can be demolished.


----------



## The Polwoman

ChrisZwolle said:


> The newest trend: wooden signs. Cradle-to-cradle, CO2-neutral, <insert buzzword>



I'm seeing more of these by the day despite not having a driving license. I know one of the suppliers of wooden (bamboo) traffic signs, and they even work on those for temporary roadworks. Fun fact: we have some wooden portals on the Zonzeel interchange north of Breda, standing there for almost twenty years already:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.645...h3h96D4RGXrq9Bqxsu_g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N307 Hoorn*

The southern carriageway of N307 at Hoorn opened to traffic this night. It runs from A7 to the Oostergouw exit in Hoorn, meaning both carriageways are now in service at this portion.











__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1066274088988155904


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A map of central Netherlands. It shows up at the topotijdreis.nl website in 1972 but it is considerably older, probably late 1950s. 

It shows Flevoland province under construction. At that time, it was planned in 4 stages;
* Noordoostpolder (Northeast Polder): dry land in 1942
* Oostelijk Flevoland (Eastern Flevoland): dry land in 1957
* Zuidelijk Flevoland (Southern Flevoland): dry land in 1968
* Markerwaard

The _Markerwaard_ is indicated on this map as "under construction", but in reality it was never realized. They built the dam from Lelystad to Enkhuizen for this purpose (it is still called a dike for that reason), but the polder itself was never realized and officially scrapped in 2003.


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ I guess ecological issues were the ones that stopped the project.

Have studies ever been performed on the ecological/climatic changes induced by the construction of the other polders?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I can't tell you much about that, though the construction of the _Afsluitdijk_ in the 1930s already turned the sea into a freshwater lake, where Flevoland was reclaimed from.

Flevoland was designed to accommodate an expansion of housing near Amsterdam and more land for agricultural purposes. At that time, the increasing population required more food production, thus more land usage. However, over time, the agricultural output was greatly increased by improved productivity and efficiency, so the need for more land for agriculture was reduced. In fact, the output grew significantly despite substantial urbanization of formerly agricultural land. 

There was talk of relocating Schiphol International Airport to the Markerwaard so it could grow further. However that has been scrapped, though talks to relocate the airport to a new island in the North Sea resurface from time to time. Schiphol can't grow much more due to reaching artificial environmental limits on the amount of landings and take-offs. The land occupied by Schiphol would also be very valuable for housing.


----------



## Suburbanist

g.spinoza said:


> ^^ I guess ecological issues were the ones that stopped the project.
> 
> Have studies ever been performed on the ecological/climatic changes induced by the construction of the other polders?


The Zuiderzee (the whole inland brackish water bay from which the polders were drained) is a quite new geological feature. It didn't exist well into 10th Century AD. It was created on its modern form after a series of catastrophic floods in the high medieval period. It used to be tidal marshland. The coast between Jutland and Friesland used to be much shorter with more dunes. 

So it is not like draining the polders would be messing up with the ancestral geography of the Netherlands... The Zuiderzee isn't even 900 years old.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another view from the same map. E37 (now E311, or better known as A27), had a ferry across the river at Gorinchem at that time. 

I wonder how many E-routes there were that still required a ferry across a river at that time. The major rivers have always played a significant role in the Dutch perception of the country. They were a formidable barrier and even in the modern era the crossings were few and far between. "below the rivers" or "above the rivers" is still a well-known expression. They also roughly separate the catholic south and protestant north.


----------



## Slagathor

g.spinoza said:


> ^^ I guess ecological issues were the ones that stopped the project.
> 
> Have studies ever been performed on the ecological/climatic changes induced by the construction of the other polders?


It wasn't stopped for ecological reasons. It was all about money.

The polders were meant to be a boost for the agricultural sector at a time when Holland needed to grow more food and the agricultural industry saw its existence threatened as the economy moved towards industrialization. The agricultural sector always had a powerful lobby in The Hague.

But by the time the Flevopolder was finished, we were growing plenty of food. Thanks in no small part to the innovations at Wageningen University, Holland had become a major food _exporter_. At the same time, studies began to show climate change would make droughts much more frequent which would sharply increase the necessity for fresh water reservoirs. 

With the economy diversified, food production plentiful and fresh water more valuable, the decision to construct the additional polders began to be postponed until, finally, it was canceled. 

This year, Holland suffered a continuous drought. The fresh water reserves of the Marker and IJssel lakes became vitally important, proving that the right decision had been taken.

A final note of trivia: semi-ecological arguments did change the _nature_ of the polders. The first polder (Noordoostpolder) is connected to the Dutch 'mainland' as you can see. This had a detrimental effect on ground water levels in the adjacent land. So the Flevopolder became somewhat of an island with buffer lakes between it and the existing mainland.


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## g.spinoza

^^ Thank you, this was very interesting.


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## da_scotty

And for those interetsted. The marker-polder has been partially created as a artificial archipelago.
The main aims are to create breeding grounds, islands and coast line and to improve the water ecology of the Markermeer. The project creates a wetland, comparable with the Wadden Sea (hence the name of the project), but without tides because the Markermeer is not connected to the sea and is in a fresh water environment.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Wijkertunnel*

The construction of the A9 shortcut under the North Sea Canal (Wijker Tunnel) north of Haarlem in 1991. The tunnel opened in 1996, alleviating the nearby Velsen Tunnel (now A22).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A27/A28 Knooppunt Rijnsweerd*

Some renders of the Rijnsweerd interchange (A27/A28) near Utrecht. This interchange will be totally reconstructed as part of the A12 and A27 expansion around Utrecht. The goal of this reconstruction is to eliminate weaving. Normally, they would use a braid system, but that takes up too much land, so they unweave traffic within the Rijnsweerd interchange (and to a lesser degree, at the nearby Lunetten interchange). This section of A27 carries 200,000 vehicles per day. 

Final plan approval by court is expected in the first half of 2019. The plan approval uses a nitrogen deposition plan that was scrutinized by the European Court of Justice. The plan was mainly devised for agricultural purposes but can also be used for road projects. The media did not really know how to interpret the ECJ verdict, with reporting ranging from "A27 widening uncertain" to "may affect A27 widening". However, the minister of transportation has stated that there is no reason to devise new plan approval on this item. 

They plan to launch a tender in 2019 and construction could start by 2020.


----------



## 036Almere

I don't know if this has been posted before, but interesting video to see what happens when a truck is too high for a tunnel.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A6 Almere*

New aerial photos of A6 through Almere, taken south to north. You can see the new local/express system on the northern portion.

Photos by Rijkswaterstaat.


----------



## Turf

Plenty of room in the polder.


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## ChrisZwolle

*N279 Veghel - Helmond*

Plans have been published for the upgrade of provincial road N279 between Veghel and Helmond in North Brabant province.

There is some criticism why they spend so much money without making it a four lane road. 20,000 vehicles per day are forecasted on almost the entire route, in almost any other country this would be more than sufficient to plan a four lane road.


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## Suburbanist

Driving through A6 will be quite a different visual experience without those trees. Tha highway has a very wide median and the trees create a neat effect for the eyes.

Hopefully they get in touch with folks ar Wageningen uni. and don't repeat the same mistake of planting just one species that is at risk of some fungi epidemic.


----------



## Stuu

ChrisZwolle said:


> The minister of transportation has signed two plan approvals;
> 
> * A27 widening between Hooipolder (A59) and Lunetten.


Will they be keeping the traffic lights with the A59?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, that is a case of serious contention in the region. It is the last major motorway-to-motorway interchange with traffic lights and it causes frequent delays.

The current plans address only a few issues: there will be a connector from west to north and some free-flowing right turns, but through traffic on A59 and other turning movements will continue to use the traffic lights.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Maastricht*

The Northern Bridge in Maastricht. The west approach was moved to a new route over the last two years.


Noorderbrugtracé vanuit de lucht - foto: Aron Nijs by Belvedere Maastricht, on Flickr


Noorderbrugtracé vanuit de lucht - foto: Aron Nijs by Belvedere Maastricht, on Flickr


Noorderbrugtracé vanuit de lucht - foto: Aron Nijs by Belvedere Maastricht, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*2018: we control rewind*

Let's see what happened in 2018 in the Netherlands.

* opened motorways: 0 km

* widened motorways: 30 km
** A1 Eemnes - Amersfoort-West: 9 km
** A4 Leiden - Leidschendam: 7 km
** A27 Utrecht-Noord - Eemnes: 14 km

* opened 2x2 expressways: 44 km
** N18 Haaksbergen - Enschede: 7 km
** N35 Zwolle - Wijthmen: 4 km
** N62 Terneuzen - Belgian border: 10 km
** N300 around Heerlen: 9 km
** N307 Hoorn - Grootebroek: 14 km

Major milestones in procedures;

* 8 March: nearly € 1 billion contract signed for A16 extension at Rotterdam
* 9 April: awarding of contract for widening of phase I A1 Apeldoorn - Rijssen
* 12 June: plan approval for widening of A1 Apeldoorn - Azelo
* 18 July: appeals against A24 at Rotterdam are rejected
* 15 August: plan approval for A10 12 lane tunnel in Amsterdam
* 30 August: plan approval for A15 widening Papendrecht - Sliedrecht-Oost
* 17 September: construction starts on A24 at Rotterdam
* 27 September: draft plan approval for widening of A1 and A28 near Amersfoort, Hoevelaken interchange reconstruction
* 20 December: plan approval for A27 widening between Hooipolder and Houten
* 21 December: plan approval for widening N35 Nijverdal - Wierden


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## MichiH

^^ Germany has opened about 50% more motorways/expressways (44km vs. 65km) and has widened about 50% more motorways (30km vs. 46km).

It's like a 2:1 win in football :banana:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes but it has almost 5 times as much population


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## Bender

Now count the Baustellen and it's Brazil-Germany all over again :cheers:


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## da_scotty

Or to make it more skewed: 13000km of National/Provincial roads + 125000 comunal roads in the Netherlands compared to 13000km of Autobahnen + 231000km of non local roads in Germany alone.

I don't think Germany can bloat about opening more roads, or maybe my sarcasm-o-meter is way off today.


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## Bender

da_scotty said:


> maybe my sarcasm-o-meter is way off today.


It's definitely still partying.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Planned road projects in the Netherlands (currently in its first draft): https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...Hx&ll=52.17170701145513,5.315165850000085&z=8










By EtienneM


----------



## Proterra

MichiH said:


> ^^ Germany has opened about 50% more motorways/expressways (44km vs. 65km) and has widened about 50% more motorways (30km vs. 46km).
> 
> It's like a 2:1 win in football :banana:


And Poland will be in the finals beating both :lol:


----------



## MattiG

Proterra said:


> And Poland will be in the finals beating both :lol:


Such a competition is unfair, because most of the new motorways in Poland have been paid by EU, using the taxpayers' money from countries like Germany and the Netherlands.


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## snowdog

Money is not the problem though, especially in Netherlands, money from motorists is used to pay for the Welfare state... If the money from motorists would be actually spent on roads, or any infrastructure, we wouldn't have congestion (it'd mean more than 100 billion extra euros for infrastructure the past decade). 

Unfortunately to little people value better infrastructure... Most of the money is wasted on Healthcare and Welfare...


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## ChrisZwolle

The Netherlands is actually doing pretty well on road spending compared to most countries in the region. Every year € 2.5 - 3 billion is spent on a relatively small network that carries a substantial amount of the national traffic, so expenditures are very high on a 'per kilometer' basis.

The problem with health care and welfare is the huge difference in spending volume. A few percent growth of health care expenditures quickly exceeds the entire spending on roads or even all infrastructure combined. Health care has the potential to dwarf all other spending categories of the government. 

The problem is: everyone wants good health care, but noone wants to pay more for it, just recall the huge political uproar about the 'liability' portion being raised by 10 or 15 euros _annually_ when the previous government made the budget. The 10 or 15 euros higher cost _per year_ was considered to be the end of the world. One year later: impose higher taxes on energy, raising the cost by hundreds of euros per year, and suddenly the politicians don't find this a problem anymore...


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## Slagathor

snowdog said:


> Money is not the problem though, especially in Netherlands, money from motorists is used to pay for the Welfare state... If the money from motorists would be actually spent on roads, or any infrastructure, we wouldn't have congestion (it'd mean more than 100 billion extra euros for infrastructure the past decade).
> 
> Unfortunately to little people value better infrastructure... *Most of the money is wasted on Healthcare* and Welfare...


icard:


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Netherlands is actually doing pretty well on road spending compared to most countries in the region. Every year € 2.5 - 3 billion is spent on a relatively small network that carries a substantial amount of the national traffic, so expenditures are very high on a 'per kilometer' basis.
> 
> The problem with health care and welfare is the huge difference in spending volume. A few percent growth of health care expenditures quickly exceeds the entire spending on roads or even all infrastructure combined. Health care has the potential to dwarf all other spending categories of the government.
> 
> The problem is: everyone wants good health care, but noone wants to pay more for it, just recall the huge political uproar about the 'liability' portion being raised by 10 or 15 euros _annually_ when the previous government made the budget. The 10 or 15 euros higher cost _per year_ was considered to be the end of the world. One year later: impose higher taxes on energy, raising the cost by hundreds of euros per year, and suddenly the politicians don't find this a problem anymore...


Yes, but motorists pay over 15 billion (if not near the 20 bln now) annually in taxes (BPM,MRB,Accijns, Bijtelling, Assurantiebelasting, BTW/VAT, etc...).

This means that motorists relatively pay more for stuff like healthcare and social security than non motorists. I think this is unfair.

The people who value living longer should pay for their hobby. I personally believe having more freedom and money at a younger age is far more beneficial than when you're old, your energy levens are down, your health is unreliable, you aren't able to physically do what you want, etc...

But that's a different discussion. Fact is, the infrastructure spending should be a percentage of the GDP, and that same percentage should be connected from motorists and other commuters. Now it's ''schuiven met geld''.

For example, now it's not okay for someone who actually uses the healthcare to pay 100 euro's more in healthcare, but it is okay to make all motorists pay for that? What rubbish. It's cool to discourage or hate mobility and freedom these days. Or even sacrifice those important things so someone can be kept alive artificially for a few months longer :bash:.

And saying that motorists cause the health damage in the first place is financially not correct, because people who die sooner cost far less in healthcare than those who live 10 years longer. Some calculations artificially add nonsense fantasy like ''value of added life years'', bit that's making money out of thin air which is not there to begin with. Fact is that someone who dies sooner costs tens of thousands less in healthcare in total, and his/her possessions get passed on to others. There is no economic loss, despite some people getting on the high horse morally wise saying it's despicable to put a price tag on people's lives, but fact is, that is how the world works.


----------



## Slagathor

snowdog said:


> And saying that motorists cause the health damage in the first place is financially not correct, because people who die sooner cost far less in healthcare than those who live 10 years longer. Some calculations artificially add nonsense fantasy like ''value of added life years'', bit that's making money out of thin air which is not there to begin with. Fact is that someone who dies sooner costs tens of thousands less in healthcare in total, and his/her possessions get passed on to others. There is no economic loss, despite some people getting on the high horse morally wise saying it's despicable to put a price tag on people, but fact is, that is how the world works.


:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## snowdog

Example:
https://www.nu.nl/gezondheid/1422361/dikke-mensen-en-rokers-goedkoper.html


> Uiteindelijk kosten dunne, gezonde mensen het meest: gerekend vanaf hun 20ste jaar 281.206 euro. De ziekte- en zorgkosten van zwaarlijvige mensen bedragen 250.185,45 euro en die van rokers 219.839 euro.


Everyone should do whatever the hell they want with their health but encouraging better health by government is increasing total costs, plus it contributes to the overpopulation problem.

There are tens if not hundreds of articles stating the same. The only people that contradict this is people who live in fantasy land and make up money by saying ''value lost life''...


----------



## Theijs

snowdog said:


> .




Misschien moet je eens tevreden zijn met wat je hebt.


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## snowdog

Theijs said:


> Misschien moet je eens tevreden zijn met wat je hebt.


That is the passiveness I mean. No, there always room for improvement, in this case the infrastructure in NL is terrible at meeting demand. Mobility is limited by government policy, and the money earned from commuters is sent to others...Netherlands are one of the worst countries to drive in, because of the significant costs and freedom limiting (and excessive safety) policies. Even just across the border, in both Be and DE you can drive nicer cars for a smaller chunk of your income. All because it's cool to hate on motorists and cars in general these days. Even though it's one of the best things that happened to the economy of the western world and one of the main contributors to personal freedom.

Never settle for mediocrity, Netherlands could have been beautiful infrastructure wise, with a road network that actually meets demand, with even better public transport (mainly local transport in the randstad is very slow average speed wise). A nice good base for healthy economic growth, which will in time result in even better lives for everyone (more money to spend on healthcare for example). Prioritise economic growth above all else FIRST, then spend the money on increasing life expectancy. Now it's an ever increasing snowball with healthcare, less related to the economic situation.

You can see people have the wrong priorities, countries like China will leave Europe miles behind in infrastructure and I believe in time, economically. There are some nice cities in the US that give a good example, but many more which leave a terrible example (very inconsistent infrastructure, even within the same states). 

(in general the US is a good example how their policies are not wrong, their GDP per capita is still far better than here, they live and drive nicer on average... Yes there are problems, but on average, people have it far better there)


----------



## Slagathor

If you think the Netherlands has a mediocre infrastructure you don't know what you're talking about.


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## snowdog

It's completely insufficient for the population density capacity wise. 

It's simple statistics, in other countries car ownership and mileage is FAR higher> Ergo better infrastructure that supports that, in NL ours doesn't, and average travel times are increased significantly due to congestion than some big US agglomerations for example. (again, don't give me nonsense like LA as an example, that's one of worst actually, I mean cities where an hour trip takes 1 hour and 5 minutes at most during ''rush hour'', where the infrastructure supports true freedom of movement and demand, where average speeds in urban area's don't significantly do under for rural areas, etc...).


The infrastructure in NL would be awesome, for a population of 10 million or so... But we're closer to 20 than 10...
Infrastructure in Netherlands is great in summer when a lot of the population buggered off on holiday/abroad.


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## ChrisZwolle

Congestion in the Netherlands is actually much less than in many European cities.

>> https://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/trafficindex/list?citySize=ALL&continent=EU&country=ALL

The most congested Dutch city is Haarlem, at #82 out of 215 cities. Amsterdam ranks #138 and Rotterdam #178.


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## snowdog

Because the problem is Europe-wide . Rotterdam is still ''yellow''. Mediocre... 21 minute extra travel time every day, that's mediocre at best.

Now compare to NA. Sort by congestion level ASC, and also note the car ownership and mileage of those (mostly midwestern) cities.

People have FAR more mobility there, ergo more freedom, and better infrastructure.

some places in Spain seems the only place in Europe where the roads do a better job of meeting demand. And yeah, rural Netherlands (but it doesn't make up for the high costs of driving here)...


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## MrAronymous

Tiring.


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## Wilhem275

snowdog said:


> ''value of added life years'', bit that's making money out of thin air which is not there to begin with. Fact is that someone who dies sooner costs tens of thousands less in healthcare in total, and his/her possessions get passed on to others. There is no economic loss, despite some people getting on the high horse morally wise saying it's despicable to put a price tag on people's lives, but fact is, that is how the world works.



You know, there are certain individuals capable of giving some added value to society, while they live.
Of course this isn't the case for everyone... :troll:


----------



## Stuu

snowdog said:


> Because the problem is Europe-wide . Rotterdam is still ''yellow''. Mediocre... 21 minute extra travel time every day, that's mediocre at best.
> 
> Now compare to NA. Sort by congestion level ASC, and also note the car ownership and mileage of those (mostly midwestern) cities.
> 
> People have FAR more mobility there, ergo more freedom, and better infrastructure.
> 
> some places in Spain seems the only place in Europe where the roads do a better job of meeting demand. And yeah, rural Netherlands (but it doesn't make up for the high costs of driving here)...


Have a look at the population densities around the US, especially the mid-west. They have loads and loads of empty space to build roads and exurbs 50 miles from downtown or whatever. Not something that Rotterdam will ever be able to do


----------



## Kanadzie

snowdog said:


> Yes, but motorists pay over 15 billion (if not near the 20 bln now) annually in taxes (BPM,MRB,Accijns, Bijtelling, Assurantiebelasting, BTW/VAT, etc...).
> 
> This means that motorists relatively pay more for stuff like healthcare and social security than non motorists. I think this is unfair.


Is there a significant population of "non motorists" who pay anything in NL?
I know in Canada there is a extremely small number of relatively wealthy people living in downtown Toronto, Vancouver or Montreal without a car. But literally anyone else without a car has such low income that they don't / can't pay any tax on anything anyway. Of people who are paying taxes surely like 99% have a car (in the household at least)


----------



## Ni3lS

Kanadzie said:


> Is there a significant population of "non motorists" who pay anything in NL?
> I know in Canada there is a extremely small number of relatively wealthy people living in downtown Toronto, Vancouver or Montreal without a car. But literally anyone else without a car has such low income that they don't / can't pay any tax on anything anyway. Of people who are paying taxes surely like 99% have a car (in the household at least)


Don't feed the :troll:


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## ChrisZwolle

The A1/A27 widening was completed last year. I found two high-resolution aerial photos on their Twitter account.

A1 at Eembrugge.









A27 at Utrecht-Noord.


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## da_scotty

A27 above Utrecht is a joy to ride. However the Vianen-Bridge is propper terror, very bad road surface, small lanes, very busy. Are there plans for a new bridge?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Victory Boogie-Woogie Tunnel*

The breakthrough of the second tube of the Victory Boogie-Woogie Tunnel in The Hague has been achieved yesterday. The tunnel boring machine will now be disassembled.


Daar is ze! by Rotterdamsebaan, on Flickr


Graafwiel ‘Catharina-Amalia’ zichtbaar by Rotterdamsebaan, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The latest trend in Dutch intersection design: a _priority roundabout_ (voorrangsplein). This is a partial roundabout where through traffic can go through without stopping. They have been a success pretty much everywhere where they have been implemented. They are ideally suited for intersections where side-street traffic is minimal. 

This one in Dordrecht actually replaced a large traffic light controlled intersection with 2x2 lanes plus bus lanes.


----------



## g.spinoza

It is just a normal intersection with dedicated left turns, it doesn't seem so innovative.


----------



## Rover030

ChrisZwolle said:


> The latest trend in Dutch intersection design: a _priority roundabout_ (voorrangsplein). This is a partial roundabout where through traffic can go through without stopping. They have been a success pretty much everywhere where they have been implemented. They are ideally suited for intersections where side-street traffic is minimal.
> 
> This one in Dordrecht actually replaced a large traffic light controlled intersection with 2x2 lanes plus bus lanes.


There's one in Utrecht that is not so successful at 't Goylaan. It also replaced a two-lane intersection with a traffic light, but the difference is that the side-streets do have quite some traffic. It's also designed a little bit too tight, so that it's not clear in practice who goes first: A or B. The idea is that they are two separate situations, so that B can go when it's clear on the priority road, and A has to give priority to B because B is on the priority road by then. However, because the intersections are so close, it feels natural for B to yield to A, which clogs up the median.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ The limited left turn capacity means it is only suitable for intersections with minor side streets. The volume of trucks and buses in particular needs to be very low.



g.spinoza said:


> It is just a normal intersection with dedicated left turns, it doesn't seem so innovative.


There are some differences that sets it apart:

* it isn't possible from the cross-street to go straight across. 
* the through street is designed to lower the speed without stopping, it bows out.
* normal left turns are turning before each other, in this case it turns after each other. 
* some of these require traffic from the intersecting street to make a right turn, then make a U-turn, making it a sort of Michigan Left.

So far it hasn't been implemented on any significant scale outside of urban areas though, I'm aware of only one temporary one on N381:









A variation in Goes:









I do hope they design something that will replace standard roundabouts outside of urban areas. There are increasingly far too many roundabouts on 80 km/h roads (N-roads). On some of those roads you can hardly drive 80 km/h for more than 1 of 2 minutes, due to roundabouts popping up every 1.5 - 2.5 km.


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## MrAronymous

In Amstelveen they went from roundabout to voorrangsplein back to roundabout. The reason for the latest change was throughput.


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## Wilhem275

I think they're a good idea, but for large vehicles' drivers it can be a big problem giving way to traffic coming from their right side. Between 3 and 6 o'clock there's an absolute blind spot.

This is not a problem with Dordrecht's example, but it can be with Utrecht's.

Also, I see a risk of having vehicles with a long overhang stopped with their tail hanging partly on the main lane.
Even if it limits capacity, it might be safer for a bus to take a wider turn than necessary and stop with its rear end fully occupying the road.


----------



## Rover030

Wilhem275 said:


> I think they're a good idea, but for large vehicles' drivers it can be a big problem giving way to traffic coming from their right side. Between 3 and 6 o'clock there's an absolute blind spot.
> 
> This is not a problem with Dordrecht's example, but it can be with Utrecht's.
> 
> Also, I see a risk of having vehicles with a long overhang stopped with their tail hanging partly on the main lane.
> Even if it limits capacity, it might be safer for a bus to take a wider turn than necessary and stop with its rear end fully occupying the road.


There actually is a bus line on the one in Utrecht that goes from the starting point of A to the left (and a right turn for the other direction). I haven't seen it in action myself, but now I'm curious as well if it has caused safety issues. Our buses have a lot of glass though, so I think the driver should be able to see traffic from the right. It could be that the presence of buses is also why they made the intersection so square instead of rectangular.

In terms of blind spots I'm more afraid of bus drivers not being able to see cyclists when taking a right turn, by the way. Unlike cars, the buses aren't turned far enough to have a 90 degree crossing with the cycling path at that point, I think.


----------



## Highway89

ChrisZwolle said:


> I do hope they design something that will replace standard roundabouts outside of urban areas. There are increasingly far too many roundabouts on 80 km/h roads (N-roads). On some of those roads you can hardly drive 80 km/h for more than 1 of 2 minutes, due to roundabouts popping up every 1.5 - 2.5 km.



What about throughabouts? Or are they too dangerous due to higher chances of side collisions?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There is one in Nijmegen. It is controlled by traffic lights.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N434 Rijnland Route, Leiden*

The deepest point of the construction pit for the tunnel of N434 south of Leiden has been reached. It is at -19 meters. The tunnel boring machine will be assembled here and start boring in mid 2019.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N62 Westerschelde Tunnel*

Traffic figures over 2018 were released for the Westerschelde Tunnel, the longest road tunnel in the Netherlands (6.6 km). It is tolled.

Traffic growth reached 5.3% compared to 2017. The total amount of passages amounted to 7,565,315, an average of 20,727 per day. It is the first year that has seen an average of more than 20,000 vehicles per day. 

Passenger car growth was +4.7%. Truck growth was +11%. The truck share is 8.4%.

The busiest day was Wednesday 8 May with 29,218 vehicles, this was the day before the ascension weekend. The lowest volume was recorded on 11 February with 8,177 vehicles in one day. Thursdays record the highest volume on average.

Cash payment is at 16% of users. 66% of users have the transponder t-Tag (with which you get a discount). 18% of users are eligible for additional 'frequent user' discount (more than 150 trips per year).


----------



## General Maximus

They use it as an alternative these days, to avoid the daily mayhem on the Antwerp Ring, which is getting worse.


----------



## Slagathor

Makes sense after the upgrades of the roads leading to it (on both sides).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It has become quite competitive for trips from Zeebrugge to the Netherlands (and beyond). The difference with the Kennedy Tunnel is only 3 kilometers if you're going to A27.

The Kennedy Tunnel has the worst congestion in perhaps all of Western Europe (10.5 hours of congestion per day for inbound traffic). If you want to avoid that using the Liefkenshoek Tunnel you have to pay toll as well, making the Westerschelde Tunnel even more interesting. In addition, trucks can't profit from the higher speed on the Belgian motorways compared to the Dutch expressways. They're limited to 80-90 anyway, which may explain the significant truck growth.

It's interesting to note that the Sluiskil Tunnel saw no growth at all, so traffic growth is either related to that local exit at Terneuzen or traffic from the west (N61).


----------



## General Maximus

All flowers from the production area between Amsterdam and Rotterdam opt for either the toll tunnel at Westerschelde or the Liefkenshoek, and then take the E34 route and local roads down to Aalter on the E40 en route to Calais and UK. I do that myself as well...


----------



## Suburbanist

The Westerscheld tunnel will be even more competitive when the Blankenburg project is completed. 

I wonder why don't they have more cargo ferries to UK from Hoek van Holland or a dedicated rail ro-ro terminal with UK customs facilities in Rotterdam or Dordrecht near the Betuweline


----------



## Theijs

Suburbanist said:


> I wonder why don't they have more cargo ferries to UK from Hoek van Holland or a dedicated rail ro-ro terminal with UK customs facilities in Rotterdam or Dordrecht near the Betuweline



In the run up to the possible Brexit the European Commission has assigned certain ports (F/B/NL) for traffic to the UK and traffic to Ireland. That might play a role.


----------



## da_scotty

Suburbanist said:


> The Westerscheld tunnel will be even more competitive when the Blankenburg project is completed.
> 
> I wonder why don't they have more cargo ferries to UK from Hoek van Holland or a dedicated rail ro-ro terminal with UK customs facilities in Rotterdam or Dordrecht near the Betuweline


Don't they have a very large ro-ro port on the _maasvlakte._


----------



## General Maximus

Via France is quicker, cheaper and more efficient anyway. A lot of freight goes by train through the Channel Tunnel directly to large terminals in East London and Birmingham.


----------



## Slagathor

Boats are slow; Hook to Harwich takes a whopping 7 hours. Much quicker to drive to Calais.


----------



## Suburbanist

What's the breakdown of cross-Channel truck traffic between Calais ferries and Eurotunnel shuttles?


----------



## Suburbanist

Are you referring to the Rotterdam - Hull ferry?


----------



## Coccodrillo

Suburbanist said:


> What's the breakdown of cross-Channel truck traffic between Calais ferries and Eurotunnel shuttles?


From https://www.getlinkgroup.com/uk/eurotunnel-group/operations/truck-shuttles/:



> Le Shuttle Freight traffic: strengthened position in a stable market
> 
> The Eurotunnel Truck Shuttle service record stable volumes of traffic for 2017, only 4,000 vehicles short of the record set in 2016. Le Shuttle Freight thus confirmed its leading position with a 39.1% market share, in a truck market stable after several years of steady growth.
> 
> 1,637,280 heavy goods vehicles transported on Truck Shuttles in 2017
> 
> World leader in piggyback transport
> 
> Eurotunnel has revolutionised international trade in Europe: 26% of trade in goods between the UK and Europe goes through the Channel Tunnel, which represents a total value of €138Bn per year. The Tunnel facilitates the rapid transport of components necessary for the just-in-time and just-in-sequence production process employed by the automotive, pharma et chemical industries, fresh products and postal freight and express deliveries.


As far I remember from other soruces, it is 39.1% of trucks crossing in the area around Dover-Calais, withour considering longer ferry lines like Plymouth-Bretagne or those to Hoeak Van Holland.

This 26% might refer to the valeu rather than volume or weight of goods, which means nothing for a transport point of view.

Note that a train can transport 32 semitrailer trucks, and that today's capacity is 20 trains per hour and direction. This would be 640 trucks per hour and direction, however this is just theoretical because loading terminals could not handle them and there are also other trains that need to pass, not just truck shuttles.

This could be increased to 24 and maybe 30 by improving rail signalling systems.


----------



## Slagathor

Slagathor said:


> Boats are slow; Hook to Harwich takes a whopping 7 hours. Much quicker to drive to Calais.





Suburbanist said:


> Are you referring to the Rotterdam - Hull ferry?


Oh right I mixed up my ferries again. Hook to Harwich is 4-6 hours.

Still slow.


----------



## General Maximus

I took the ferry from Caen to Portsmouth the other week. Takes 6 hours, and is mainly used by Spanish truckers. 



> The Hook of Holland Harwich ferry route connects Holland with England. Currently there is just the 1 ferry company operating this ferry service, Stena Line. The crossing operates up to 14 times each week with sailing durations from around 6 hours 30 minutes.


I mostly use the Eurotunnel - VP - which means I can use the tourist facilities with a commercial van. At other times or when I'm hungry, I use P&O.


----------



## BriedisUnIzlietne

ChrisZwolle said:


> The latest trend in Dutch intersection design: a _priority roundabout_ (voorrangsplein). This is a partial roundabout where through traffic can go through without stopping. They have been a success pretty much everywhere where they have been implemented. They are ideally suited for intersections where side-street traffic is minimal.
> 
> This one in Dordrecht actually replaced a large traffic light controlled intersection with 2x2 lanes plus bus lanes.



Love these! Where exactly was the one in Dordrecht? I'd like to Google how it looked before


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ https://www.google.com/maps/@51.8113631,4.6821843,71m/data=!3m1!1e3


----------



## ChrisZwolle

To compare: they are going to widen a 50 kilometer section of A1 (Apeldoorn - Hengelo) at only a quarter of the cost. Imagine what you can do with € 1.6 billion.


----------



## da_scotty

And it doesn't solve the barrier function as the railway will still be there and will in fact become larger (extra platform).


----------



## Coccodrillo

The extra platforms could be added without putting the motorway in tunnel?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There is maybe 5 meters of space between the tracks and the crash barrier of the motorway. 

They could potentially move the motorway slightly outward by circa 10 meters. That would create some space. However the interchanges of A10 are already substandard, the S108 ramp has a 30 km/h 180 degree turn. There is a cemetery in the way that prevents moving it farther north. 

The original plan was to put both the railway and motorway underground. This would be even more complex and expensive, though they could potentially recover some of the cost through real estate development. But this is highly dependent on economic cycles, which is the main reason why they didn't go through with that plan 10 years ago. It was estimated at € 3.3 billion at the time.


----------



## Wilhem275

Coccodrillo said:


> The extra platforms could be added without putting the motorway in tunnel?


Not really. Also, the old ones are kind of narrow for that level of traffic.


----------



## da_scotty

Coccodrillo said:


> The extra platforms could be added without putting the motorway in tunnel?


No:











Other side is the same with a subway platform, you can see the overhead gantry in the top right corner of the picture.


----------



## Coccodrillo

Then here is why it is good to build this road tunnel...


----------



## da_scotty

^^
It's a very expensive project just to expand the railway station, and the barier function still remains in the Zuidas. While way more expensive, a combined rail/road tunnel woud be way more beneficial.


----------



## MrAronymous

Most importantly, the towers could be built higher on top this corridor than elsewhere in Zuidas. It would complete the dream vision.


----------



## renroz

Pfffffff... please invest in some other place. Ones.


----------



## Wilhem275

By putting underground both A10 and the widened station, if would have resulted in an occupied space much wider than today. The open corridor is not incredibly wide.

It makes sense, to me, to put two wide infrastructures in a two-layers arrangement, to spare some space and money.
Consider it a railway and urban investment, not a road related project.

If buildings are really needed, they can still be built on top of the station. The limit are the road tunnel foundations, not the station (it's easier to find spaces for pillars among the tracks).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The original plan called for multi-deck underground infrastructure, many renders were made but the plans weren't decided into detail as far as I know.

It was called 'ZuidasDok'.


----------



## MrAronymous

The current plan is still called Zuidasdok... 

And with the current configurations of the car tunnels very close to the buildings, 4 metro tracks and 6 train tracks should still fit.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A Boeing 747 will be transported over A9 tonight:


----------



## Coccodrillo

From where to where?


----------



## Slagathor

From Schiphol to a hotel owned by travel agency Corendon; a company with more money than sense.

More photos here: https://nos.nl/artikel/2271151-boei...weilanden-meerdere-bruggen-en-snelweg-a9.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle




----------



## General Maximus

So it was only crossing the A9. No planes stopping at motorway services for a coffee today... :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Catenary lighting is being replaced by high mast LED lighting on A12 west of Utrecht.


DSCN9625 by DutchRoadMovies, on Flickr


A12 Harmelen by DutchRoadMovies, on Flickr


----------



## Grzegorz.Janoszka

Are there any highway strips in the Netherlands?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_strip


----------



## da_scotty

Grzegorz.Janoszka said:


> Are there any highway strips in the Netherlands?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_strip


No!

It's a small country, at the height of the Cold War two airports where "dissused but at a ready state". With six military airports in a country of 300 by 150 highway strips wern't really deamed needed.

The germans did however use the Rijksweg 13 and 12 near The Hague as made-shift landing strips with the airborne invasion of the Hague.


----------



## Slagathor

Those tall LED light masts seem a little... much.

I thought one of the big pros of LEDs was that you could concentrate the light better leading to less light pollution? So why put up these floodlights?

Also, I seem to remember a trial where they put LED lights into the road surface (instead of painted lights). What happened to that? Does anyone else remember that or did I imagine it?


----------



## Wilhem275

Grzegorz.Janoszka said:


> Are there any highway strips in the Netherlands?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_strip



Well, technically some Dutch carriageways are now wide enough to land a plane there :lol:


----------



## The Polwoman

^^ yeah but you still have all these portals on almost every stretch of more than 2x2 lanes. But if we would strip these and the lights stretches of the A2 near Breukelen (at best south because of the lack of high voltage lines) would be safe enough smaller jets or turboprops: most importantly, it just misses 3m for landing a B737 or A320.


----------



## da_scotty

Slagathor said:


> Those tall LED light masts seem a little... much.
> 
> I thought one of the big pros of LEDs was that you could concentrate the light better leading to less light pollution? So why put up these floodlights?
> 
> Also, I seem to remember a trial where they put LED lights into the road surface (instead of painted lights). What happened to that? Does anyone else remember that or did I imagine it?


I guess that it's because that section of the A12 is wide (2x4) with a very wide median. So you have to get high to get the light to reach the whole road.

That was in _Oss_ on the _Weg van de Toekomst (Road of the Future)_ it failed big time. The system never worked and regular lines have been painted. You can see it on the right side here, it looks like faded lines but it's the led-strips.
https://www.google.nl/maps/@51.7439729,5.5645232,3a,75y,323.82h,68.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLmzcLRviz7np6arwkeuqNQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

They also tested dynamic lane markings (with lighting) on four snelwegen but this wasn't a succes as you can't really switch between the two modes and the system had major durability issues.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

4 people were killed when their car went into a canal near Obdam.









Photo: NOS

Vehicles in the water is a rather substantial problem in the Netherlands. There are canals and water-filled ditches almost everywhere. 

Most of those ditches are shallow (30-50 cm of water) but those drainage canals are deeper. Many don't have crash barriers. This appears to be low-hanging fruit to address safety, until you start counting how many kilometers of barriers you need for low volume roads. This particular road only serves some farms, it's not a main road.

2009 Street View from this location: there is a barrier along a straight section (possibly to protect a drainage pipe under the road & canal), but no crash barrier in the curve.


----------



## Slagathor

Is it true that it's mostly old people who lose their lives in these water-crashes? Otherwise healthy adults should be able to get out of the car before it goes under.



da_scotty said:


> I guess that it's because that section of the A12 is wide (2x4) with a very wide median. So you have to get high to get the light to reach the whole road.
> 
> That was in _Oss_ on the _Weg van de Toekomst (Road of the Future)_ it failed big time. The system never worked and regular lines have been painted. You can see it on the right side here, it looks like faded lines but it's the led-strips.
> https://www.google.nl/maps/@51.7439729,5.5645232,3a,75y,323.82h,68.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLmzcLRviz7np6arwkeuqNQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
> 
> They also tested dynamic lane markings (with lighting) on four snelwegen but this wasn't a succes as you can't really switch between the two modes and the system had major durability issues.


That's a shame, I thought that had great potential in theory.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

In this case it was reported that 4 Polish workers lost their lives in the canal crash. Evidently the crash occured late Friday night during bad weather (wind, rain) but their car wasn't spotted until today around noon. 

The crash barrier may have caused the car to flip upside down into the canal. In this case the crash barrier may have been installed to protect a pipeline (called a 'zinker', denoted by the 'Z' sign).

Reversed street view:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N381 Drachten - Oosterwolde*

The four lane expansion of N381 between Donkerbroek and Oosterwolde has began large-scale construction this weekend. It is scheduled to be completed in July 2020.

It is an extension of the N381 construction project that was completed in 2017. N381 was built as a four lane expressway from A7 at Drachten to Donkerbroek and as a new super-two highway from there to the provincial border. 

Evidently they thought, 'damn this four lane highway is nice, let's build some more', so here we are, less than 2 years after the completion of the initial project, the expansion has begun. :lol:

It may be the fastest a road ever gets expanded after initial construction (1.5 years). This four laning was not funded at the time the original project was under construction.


----------



## Suburbanist

Is Fryslân paying for all of it?


----------



## Rebasepoiss

Slagathor said:


> Is it true that it's mostly old people who lose their lives in these water-crashes? Otherwise healthy adults should be able to get out of the car before it goes under.


You only have a couple of seconds to get out. If the water line reaches even a third of the way up the doors they become pretty much impossible to open due to the pressure difference. Electric windows also don't work in water... And unless you have a glass hammer with you breaking the side windows is also very difficult. 

There was recently a case in Estonia where an old man drove into a pond and was unable to get out of his car. He even managed to call 112 and report the accident but he wasn't found quickly enough and drowned.


----------



## Slagathor

The pressure evens out when the car is (nearly) full of water. This obviously doesn't help if you've got kids in the car but adults who manage to stay calm do have a reasonable chance to get out.

At least that's the explanation I heard for why most victims in these crashes are senior citizens. Or perhaps they're just more likely to hit the water in the first place.

Of course none of this applies to the poor Polish guys whose car was upside down. You can't even get your seat belt off like that, not without a knife.


----------



## Stuu

Slagathor said:


> The pressure evens out when the car is (nearly) full of water. This obviously doesn't help if you've got kids in the car but adults who manage to stay calm do have a reasonable chance to get out.


What percentage of adults manage to keep calm? Even without ending up upside down, you will have had no more than a couple of seconds warning that you are about to go into water, and it may well be pitch dark and freezing cold. Rationally thinking that you need to get your seat belt off, and wait for the car to fill with water before getting out is not something I would be confident I could do


----------



## Slagathor

I agree and I hope to never have to do it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Deil - Vught*

A trial with a dynamic speed limit on A2 between Deil (A15) and Vught (A65) has shown no effect.

The trial saw a reduced speed limit of 90 km/h during rush hour. The goals were reduced braking waves and reduced accidents.

They have now concluded that it led to 'no substantial effect' and the trial will not be continued. 

Studies are underway for an expansion of A2, which carries 133,000 - 143,000 vehicles per day on six lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A58 Breda - Eindhoven*

A58 will be expanded to six lanes from Breda to Eindhoven. This is divided in three stages;

1) Breda (A16 - A27)
2) Breda - Tillburg
3) Tilburg - Eindhoven

Preliminary designs can be viewed here: https://a58inbeeld.nl/traject

It will mostly be a straightfoward expansion from four to six lanes. Since A58 is an old motorway between Tilburg and Eindhoven (1961-1966) it will be completely rebuilt. 

The most interesting changes are located at 'De Baars' motorway interchange (A58/A65) near Tilburg, where a complete new bypass for through traffic on A58 will be built through the interchange. 

The Galder (A58/A16) and Sint Annabosch (A58/A27) interchanges will also be significantly reconstructed to a directional T interchange (direct connectors, no loop ramps).

There will also be some changes at Eindhoven, the A2 northbound lanes will be expanded by one lane, from 4 to 5 lanes between Batadorp and Ekkersweijer and from 2 to 3 lanes on the connector towards 's-Hertogenbosch.


----------



## snowdog

So the Aneville-oak will be chopped  ?


Anyhow, good news, the A57 is a congested mess!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Integrated traffic lights & signage in Rotterdam.


Weena Rotterdam, S100 Centrumring by Etienne M., on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Hunebed Highway*

N34 is nicknamed the 'Hunebed Highway'. A _hunebed_ (dolmen) can be found along this road. It's one of the best-known features of Drenthe province.


N34 Het Klooster-1 by European Roads, on Flickr



N34 Het Klooster-4 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## Suburbanist

Drenthe explore its hunebeden better than Fryslân does with its terpen.


----------



## ppplus

ChrisZwolle said:


> N34 is nicknamed the 'Hunebed Highway'. A _hunebed_ (dolmen) can be found along this road. It's one of the best-known features of Drenthe province.
> 
> 
> N34 Het Klooster-1 by European Roads, on Flickr
> 
> 
> 
> N34 Het Klooster-4 by European Roads, on Flickr


The signal is american style


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Signage plans in the Netherlands are accessible as open data. You can see the future names of interchanges and directional signage, as well as existing ones. You can also see when signs were installed (with data going back decades).

The under construction N62 / N254 interchange in Zeeland province will be named 'Drie Klauwen' (translated: 'three claws'). It is named after a former farm. These obscure locations for interchange names are rather common (few people would know what 'De Baars' or 'Grijsoord' are if it wasn't for the interchange names).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A59*

Three Portuguese workers were killed on A59 early Sunday morning, after their car collided with a gantry. The car caught fire after the crash and burned out. The car was so mangled that they initially thought there were 2 occupants, and later found out there was a third deceased person in it.

The crash has raised some questions;
* why is there no crash barrier (answer: it is more than 10 m from the through lanes, so guidelines don't require it)
* how did they crash, as they missed a traffic sign, indicating the car took a very hard right turn.
* how fast were they driving, considering the extreme damage. It looks as if the car was squashed between two trucks. No other vehicles were involved in the accident.









Photo: NOS / ANP


----------



## Des

ChrisZwolle said:


> Integrated traffic lights & signage in Rotterdam.
> 
> 
> Weena Rotterdam, S100 Centrumring by Etienne M., on Flickr


Looks confusing.


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ I think it's the picture.

It seems not much more confusing than other Dutch signs. They are sometimes too written, with too many destinations.


----------



## General Maximus

^^ They used to, but with the new lay-out signs they've changed that, and any additional information have been moved to separate signs.


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> Integrated traffic lights & signage in Rotterdam.
> 
> 
> Weena Rotterdam, S100 Centrumring by Etienne M., on Flickr


This is confusing. It's not clear whether you need to stop before the red light here, or just at the crossing.

Edit: I see I am not the first one with this comment.


----------



## General Maximus

There's always a line *before* the zebra crossing where to stop. You just don't see it in this picture.


----------



## MrAronymous

Location on Google Maps


----------



## KIWIKAAS

Surel said:


> This is confusing. It's not clear whether you need to stop before the red light here, or just at the crossing.
> 
> Edit: I see I am not the first one with this comment.


In the Netherlands traffic lights are only situated where the stopping line is. There are no traffic lights on the opposite side of the intersection as is the case in many other countries. The red lights you see in the picture further down the street are lights at a different intersection totally seperate from the green set.


----------



## Suburbanist

Something that might be confusing some people is that, not shown on the pic, there are three general incoming traffic lanes before the cross signal, and one bus-only land (rightmost) - hence the special sign. After the stop signal, there is no longer a bus line and vehicles turn right can also use the rightmost lane.

Bus lines are badly signed in Netherlands, no special yellow or red lanes. They just write LIJN BUS. The upside is that even bus-only lanes (without trams) use the special tramway signaling for public transportation, so that is unambiguous.


----------



## da_scotty

^^
In Delft they started using green paint for bus/tramways.


----------



## General Maximus

Surby has a point. The amount of times I accidentally ended up on the bus lane here at night is quite astonishing.


----------



## Suburbanist

da_scotty said:


> ^^
> In Delft they started using green paint for bus/tramways.


They should standardize - red for cycling-only, green for public-transportation.


----------



## Rover030

In Utrecht they use red on a concrete busway through the city. I guess that makes it easier to see from the car perspective, but the downside is that it's the same colour as bike lanes. The paint has also worn off quite a bit, but that's because they used actual paint on concrete instead of coloured asphalt like for bike lanes.

Aesthetically it's also bad, because sidewalks tend to be made of red/purple brick in much of the city centre, so you have streets that are pretty much all red.

Another downside of this specific bus lane is that on some parts (for instance in the picture below), you are allowed to drive a car, but the colour is still red, so the situation is not very clear.

Green sounds like a better idea.


----------



## The Polwoman

Des said:


> Looks confusing.



I agree for a different reason: too many information, having to look both at the text and at the lights don't make it easier, and that bright blue background is not really beneficial to the visibility of the traffic light.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's key that traffic lights are uniformly installed across the country, missing one can potentially be deadly. 

So traffic lights need a background shield to avoid it becoming lost in the background visual clutter. But not a huge sign like this. The placement is also odd, traffic lights are basically always before an intersection or crossroad, not after one.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A67 Eindhoven - Geldrop*

The preferred alternative for the A67 expansion has been chosen. They will widen a 4 km section of A67 from the Leenderheide interchange (A2) to Geldrop.

There is a long-standing wish to expand A67 all the way to Venlo due to the high volume of trucks, but funding for such a project has not been identified and the cost is already a problem due to the age of A67. It would require an axis shift and complete rebuilding of the infrastructure. This 4 km project would alleviate the worst of the recurring congestion.

This 4 km project, which consists of basically a 3.5 km eastbound lane and a 2.5 km westbound auxiliary lane, is budgeted at € 154 million, which has struck many for being oddly expensive. It would require complete bridge replacement along the route but there are only two bridges on A67 and 2 minor viaducts over A67. It's not entirely clear why this would cost so much.


----------



## Surel

MrAronymous said:


> Location on Google Maps


I can't say that I like it anyway. The lights being placed just after the zebra, in much more distance from the stop line then is usual, is not an improvement. Just install two gantries if you need overhead lights. I don't think that there are substantial cost reductions anyway if you place a combined gantry, and it doesn't add clarity at all.


----------



## M-NL

What I think makes it confusing is the form factor of the lights, which is unusual. If they had used three separate signs with regular form factor lights in between it would have been fine.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Amsterdam*

The new Gaasperdam Tunnel of A9 in Amsterdam is a 5-tube tunnel. The center tube will be a reversible lane. This tube is now getting its roof.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*traffic congestion development*

Traffic congestion on the Dutch motorway system increased by 2.2% in 2018. The slowdown of congestion growth has continued. 

A large amount of capacity was added between 2010 and 2014, but not nearly as much since 2014, and traffic congestion shot up significantly in 2014-2016, but has since tapered off. 

Traffic volumes are still steadily growing, the Dutch motorway system carries 30% more traffic than in 2000 (yet with nearly the same amount of congestion).

Traffic jams (millions of kilometer-minutes)









Vehicle kilometers on the motorways (in billions)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1/A30 knooppunt Barneveld*

A draft design has been made for the A1/A30 interchange, also known as 'knooppunt Barneveld'. 

A1/A30 is currently a partial cloverleaf with traffic lights for traffic to/from A30 and N301. It was originally built as a regular exit, not as a motorway-to-motorway interchange since A30 was built much later than A1. 

The cost estimate is € 47 million, while optimalizations would push the cost to € 61 million. 

There are a number of criteria which makes the design difficult;
* access to N301 must be preserved
* McDonald's / roadside restaurant must remain at this location
* bridge across the railroad must be preserved.

So they came up with this rather unusual design, a two-lane flyover for Arnhem > Amersfoort traffic and a two-lane connector vice versa.
But it also contains a left exit and left entrance with extremely short merging lanes for traffic from/to N301 / McDonald's. 

It is debatable whether local access must be preserved at this location. There is an alternate exit to Voorthuizen only 2 kilometers to the east. N301 is also a lower class road (60 km/h). Some people feel that N301 should be completely detached from this interchange.

In addition, the railroad overpass could be replaced by something wider that would allow a much better designed motorway feeding to/from the interchange. 
There are substandard shifts and curves if the bridge must be preserved at all cost. The east bridge dates from before A30 as is already too narrow for a motorway. 


ontwerp knooppunt Barneveld by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Victory Boogie-Woogie Tunnel*

Recent aerial photos of the 'Rotterdamsebaan' project in The Hague. It is a four lane tunnel from A13 into The Hague. It is supposed to provide an alternate access road and make the city less dependent on A12.



Sfeerimpressie knooppunt Ypenburg by Rotterdamsebaan, on Flickr


Sfeerimpressie knooppunt Ypenburg by Rotterdamsebaan, on Flickr


Sfeerimpressie werkterrein Vlietzone by Rotterdamsebaan, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*A6 Almere*

The A6 expansion project through the city of Almere is progressing nicely.

The final local / express system on the central part of the project will be completed in May. The entire expansion project will be open to traffic by the summer of 2019.

Some bridges near Almere Haven will be put into service this weekend. A6 has been lowered by 6 meters, so roads cross over it instead of under it.


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## ChrisZwolle

*1958 road plan*

The _rijkswegenplan_ of 1958. It identified national roads (_rijkswegen_) and their administrative number.

These were not all planned as motorways and their numbers were not signed.

This plan was a successor to the 1948 road plan, but was later overshadowed by the 1968 road plan.

Notice the Flevoland road plans. 


Rijkswegenplan 1958 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## renroz

Ha, There are some adjustment nowadays!


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## General Maximus

I think it's time for another one. 

Why not have A6 from A1 to German border all the way, and let A7 terminate at Joure, or in case of a N31 upgrade, move it from Zurich to Leeuwarden and then perhaps have the stretch between Zurich and Joure downgraded to N7? 


Since the refurbishing of all those junctions, the A6 and A7 after Joure is one motorway anyway. All traffic from Amsterdam to Groningen is routed this way, and they could reroute the E22 this way as well.


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## ChrisZwolle

It has been proposed before, but a significant renumbering of existing roads is generally seen as a non-starter due to it being in so many databases. Not many existing roads have been renumbered since the 1993 transfer of national road to the provinces. The recent N302 > N307 swap was one of the first major renumberings in a long time.


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## General Maximus

That's a shame. It would make sense to have it as one motorway...


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## Wilhem275

Consistency of road numbering is losing any importance today, to be honest. In the end it's just a matter of administration.

The important detail for users (and their automated routing) is that route rankings are consistent and up to date. Apart from that, numbering could be virtually randomized.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A1/A30 & A20*

Two milestones were reached today.

*A1/A30*
The 'initial decision' to start a formal procedure for the A1/A30 interchange near Barneveld has been taken today. € 40.9 million has been reserved for this project. They have planned to reconstruct the interchange, especially improving the Arnhem > Amersfoort v.v. connections.











*A20*

The preferred alternative has been chosen for the expansion of A20 east of Rotterdam, between Nieuwerkerk and the Gouwe motorway interchange with A12 near Gouda. A20 will be widened to six lanes. Construction could begin in 2021. The construction cost is estimated at € 124 million.

Minister van Nieuwenhuizen signing the declaration:


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## snowdog

While good, this will create HUGE chokepoint on the A12 east of Gouda...

You're cramming 6 lanes of highway traffic + the traffic from Gouda onramp into 4 lanes...
Then the next chokepoint at Alphen which already exists.

Gouda<>Alphen should be 2x5 or 2x6 lanes lanes with 2x6 lanes from Alphen and 2x7 lanes from the Meern eastwards.

Either that or the A3 needs to be built, from Gouda to 020 via Alphen...


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## ChrisZwolle

The projected AADT on A12 at Gouda is nearly 200,000 vehicles per day. Meanwhile Bodegraven - Utrecht is also inching up to 200,000 vehicles per day in the near future. I think a 10 lane expansion is warranted, evidently there is a lobby for the A12 expansion.

Many thought the 1960s road plans were overkill, and maybe to an extent they were, but they also identified problems that still exist today. A3 may not be planned anymore, but it would've been a huge reliever of north-south traffic. Likewise, an extended A16 to Leiden was fairly recently studied to be a huge improvement to traffic, but a new alignment motorway was outside of the scope of that study.


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## peezet

Is there ever considered the A2,5 from Maarssen (A2) to Lexmond (A27)?


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## da_scotty

Yes, the A80 sort of. But that was more towards Hilversum.


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## ChrisZwolle

I think he refers to the A2½ plan that was floated in the early 2000s as a western bypass of the Utrecht area. It would've been an alternative to the A2 widening through Utrecht (Leidsche Rijn Tunnel). In the end, A2 was widened.

A80 was a different route: it would've been an east-west route in the general area of N201 to Hilversum. They're still struggling with the traffic problems on N201, they want impossible solutions: not widen the road or build a new alignment but somehow 'solve' the traffic problems there.


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## Theijs

In the past there was a railroad crossing on the A2 (Amsterdam-Utrecht), now I discovered the railroad crossing of a heritage railway at the N307, around Hoorn.


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## ChrisZwolle

A car has collided with a mobile lane signalling device on A1 near Bathmen last night. These devices are parked on the shoulder to provide overhead lane signalling.

This section of A1 has recently started construction for a six lane expansion. The minister of transportation was scheduled to perform an official starting ceremony today.


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## General Maximus

That A1 is notorious for accidents with Poles. What was the promille? He obviously failed to see that the arrow was pointing the other way.


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## Proterra

General Maximus said:


> That A1 is notorious for accidents with Poles


 Because it's the main motorway Netherlands-Poland.



General Maximus said:


> What was the promille? He obviously failed to see that the arrow was pointing the other way.


Most likely zero. Knowing the Dutch, if it would be anything but zero and it concerns a Polish driver, it would be mentioned at least five times in such a news article. _(although somehow they often fail to mention the nationality when the drunk driver causing the accident is Dutch)_


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## General Maximus

Edit. Didn't mean to tread on someone's tail or rattle a cage.


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## ChrisZwolle

In case of deceased drivers, they won't take any blood samples to determine if alcohol was involved or not. This practice is controversial because it's unclear how big the influence of alcohol in fatal accidents is, so policy and enforcement is based on assumptions. Especially the many 'weird' accidents at night or during weekends. 

In this case it would be very unusual not to notice this construction scene, as there would've been preceding warnings with flashers, in addition to the mobile gantry the driver crashed into.


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## Slagathor

Remember rule #1 of obstacle avoidance: *if you don't want to hit it, don't look at it*.

Look at where you want to go instead.

This is a tricky catch-22 with obstacles that have been made deliberately visible like this thing. On the one hand: you need people to see it. On the other hand: if people are tired or distracted/surprised by it, there's a risk of a panic moment where they focus on the thing they're supposed to avoid. Usually that means they collide with it, ironically.

Poor guy/woman.


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## ChrisZwolle

Just like those truck drivers crashing into those 'arrow cars' at night. They are so insanely bright you can spot them from 2 kilometers away. But for some reason people manage to hit them. And in most cases they are just one of many warning signs before a crash or construction zone. 

It makes you concerned about those 'zombie drivers' on the road. One problem of the trucking industry is a total lack of enforcement of driving hours. Enforcement is so minuscule it's basically the wild west. Truck volumes are so great that they can only perform checks on a very small percentage of truckers.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Apeldoorn - Azelo*

The groundbreaking ceremony for the A1 expansion between Apeldoorn and Azelo has been performed today. A1 will be widened to 2x4 lanes from Apeldoorn to Deventer and 2x3 lanes from Deventer to the Azelo interchange (A35). It is a 50 kilometer expansion project, estimated at € 400 million.

An announcement has been made that the A1 expansion project will be moved forward. 40 out of 50 kilometers will be completed in 2021.

It was originally planned to expand A1 in two phases: 2018-2020 and 2024-2028, due to budgetary constraints during the recession. However it was clear that it wouldn't take 4 years to complete one phase, in fact most of the expansion will be done in 12-18 months (varying by location). They often announce quite wide ranges to avoid having to announce delays later. And they can make announcements that projects will be completed ahead of schedule.

Two sections: Deventer - Deventer-Oost and Rijssen - Azelo will be completed by 2021 instead of 2028. Constructor Heijmans has been awarded a € 45 million contract addition for this work. 

Additionally, the Apeldoorn - Twello section will also be sped up, to the 2021-2025 timeframe (again, it likely won't take 4 years to complete this, so it may be completed in 2022 or 2023).

As construction has started now, some sections will already be completed by late 2019 and early 2020.


----------



## Surel

Slagathor said:


> Remember rule #1 of obstacle avoidance: *if you don't want to hit it, don't look at it*.
> 
> Look at where you want to go instead.
> 
> This is a tricky catch-22 with obstacles that have been made deliberately visible like this thing. On the one hand: you need people to see it. On the other hand: if people are tired or distracted/surprised by it, there's a risk of a panic moment where they focus on the thing they're supposed to avoid. Usually that means they collide with it, ironically.
> 
> Poor guy/woman.


Or it's just a coincidence. There are many instances of microsleep, yet only few of them end up in a crash. What you see is just the instances when it ended up with a crash.

This accident could also have different reasons and did not have to be an accident in fact. Maybe the driver wanted to hit it.

In any case, there don't seem to be any sign of braking.


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## SRC_100

It looks like a classic fall asleep at the wheel.


----------



## Proterra

Surel said:


> Or it's just a coincidence. There are many instances of microsleep, yet only few of them end up in a crash. What you see is just the instances when it ended up with a crash.


Makes sense if it happened on the westbound lane. I was driving back to Poland from Nijmegen the night before and I was in a snow storm from Halle until Gliwice, inclement weather forcing me to not drive faster than 60-80 km/h for many hundreds of kilometres. Pulled off at the MOP in Ruda Śląska after sixteen hours of driving and went to sleep - at that time I already had seven hours of delay compared to my normal traveling time of 10-11 hours from Nijmegen to Nowy Targ.

If that driver had been coming in from Kartuzy for what's normally a twelve-hour drive at most, and spending upwards of 18 hours on the road, it makes more than enough sense that at some point they just fell asleep, especially if they were nearing their destination and couldn't be arsed sleeping on a petrol station if their bed was only an hour or two at most away. Personally, regardless of where I am, by the time I get to the point where 100 km/h in good conditions start appearing fast to me, it's time to pull off and get a couple of hours of rest. And yes, I have pulled off on Raststatte Kalbecker Forst on my way to Nijmegen to get sleep after driving straight through from Podhale knowing there was a bed waiting for me half an hour further down the road.


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## Wilhem275

Proterra said:


> by the time I get to the point where 100 km/h in good conditions start appearing fast to me, it's time to pull off and get a couple of hours of rest.


 To me it works quite the opposite way: if I slow down I'm more at risk of dozing. Less stimuli coming in.

Meeting denser traffic helps too, since I keep focus on vehicles around me.


----------



## Surel

Proterra said:


> Makes sense if it happened on the westbound lane. I was driving back to Poland from Nijmegen the night before and I was in a snow storm from Halle until Gliwice, inclement weather forcing me to not drive faster than 60-80 km/h for many hundreds of kilometres. Pulled off at the MOP in Ruda Śląska after sixteen hours of driving and went to sleep - at that time I already had seven hours of delay compared to my normal traveling time of 10-11 hours from Nijmegen to Nowy Targ.
> 
> If that driver had been coming in from Kartuzy for what's normally a twelve-hour drive at most, and spending upwards of 18 hours on the road, it makes more than enough sense that at some point they just fell asleep, especially if they were nearing their destination and couldn't be arsed sleeping on a petrol station if their bed was only an hour or two at most away. Personally, regardless of where I am, by the time I get to the point where 100 km/h in good conditions start appearing fast to me, it's time to pull off and get a couple of hours of rest. And yes, I have pulled off on Raststatte Kalbecker Forst on my way to Nijmegen to get sleep after driving straight through from Podhale knowing there was a bed waiting for me half an hour further down the road.


I remember reading somewhere that the most accidents happen in the last 60 kms of long journeys. The idea of being almost there is making people take unnecessary risks indeed. I rather pull over and take a nap, koffie or do some exercise.


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## General Maximus

Been driving for like 20 hours, almost home but the last 10 km of my journey I'm going to stop for a coffee or a nap? I don't think so.


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## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> It makes you concerned about those 'zombie drivers' on the road.


I also turn to zombie mode if I drive by the rules... It's boring, and you tend to start doing other things, even something simple like thinking about something else than driving, I caught myself driving on a closed lane once near Amersfoort.

I noticed the plus lane was closed, and set my cruise control to the speed the slowpoke in front of me was doing, I got bored and started thinking about my next work day, by automatism I completely forgot I noticed the plus lane was closed earlier and moved to overtake, in zombie automaton mode, then got startled at the next red cross.

The result of being stuck at 90 something km/h behind someone on a motorway simply turns me into a mindless zombie, or general driving in ''trains''.

Whereas if I drive Vmax + 40 or 50 on the motorway, I'm constantly busy mirroring, looking as far ahead as possible, looking out for highwaymen, and generally proactive driving... Make driving so boring like it is in NL and people are surprised that accidents like this happen. This is because thinking for motorists is actually discouraged (as shown by the growth of VRI's (Traffic lights) and turning lanes and other nonsense that is to promote a ''rustig verkeersbeeld'' (calm traffic). It turns driving into a mindless dumb zombie mode.


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## ChrisZwolle

snowdog said:


> Whereas if I drive Vmax + 40 or 50 on the motorway, I'm constantly busy mirroring, looking as far ahead as possible, looking out for highwaymen, and generally proactive driving...


And at some point, another motorist is bound to misjudge you driving 50 km/h over the speed limit, they change lanes, you plow into their car and kill their child or something. hno:

I do agree that speed limits are sometimes too low, but going that much faster than the speed limit is bound to result in a serious crash one time. 

Like this dude who probably drove around 140 km/h when the traffic management system was flashing at 50 km/h: https://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/7643525/5c5fab03/bruine_vlek_op_bestuurdersstoel.html


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## g.spinoza

snowdog said:


> Whereas if I drive Vmax + 40 or 50 on the motorway,


Yeah, wow, what a man.


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## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> And at some point, another motorist is bound to misjudge you driving 50 km/h over the speed limit, they change lanes, you plow into their car and kill their child or something. hno:
> 
> I do agree that speed limits are sometimes too low, but going that much faster than the speed limit is bound to result in a serious crash one time.
> 
> Like this dude who probably drove around 140 km/h when the traffic management system was flashing at 50 km/h: https://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/7643525/5c5fab03/bruine_vlek_op_bestuurdersstoel.html


He didn't, he was on cruise control @ 130 and already off cruise control for a few seconds when that arse in the Merc moved left. I know the guy, regular on Flitsservice forum who I met for a racing day (go karts ) . It's not the speed but the time that was removed from the video. Probably for the simple reason so a cop can't fine him afterwards for art 5 or anything else because the exact time required for the PV is unknown.


Anyhow, I don't believe in speed limits on motorways, and yeah, Dutch people are terrible in mirroring and yielding when changing lanes, doesn't change the fact that driving by the rules in NL in general is sleep inducing... And this will only get worse and worse.


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## da_scotty

^^
The only terrible driver is you. period.

If I could sign you up for a EMG I would without a second of a doubt.

_For non-dutch speakers: EMG Educatieve Maatregel Gedrag -> Educational Behaviour Course for road users_


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## keokiracer

da_scotty said:


> ^^
> The only terrible driver is you. period.
> 
> If I could sign you up for a EMG I would without a second of a doubt.


He regularly posts dashcam videos, really nothing special that would warrant anything even close to an EMG.


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## ChrisZwolle

snowdog said:


> He didn't, he was on cruise control @ 130 and already off cruise control for a few seconds when that arse in the Merc moved left.


In other words, he was driving 80 kilometers over the speed limit... :nuts:

The sequence for motorway traffic management is;

* 70 km/h flashing
* 50 km/h flashing
* 50 km/h not flashing

The video shows the next MTM gantry at 50 km/h not flashing, so when the video starts, he was driving 130 km/h (according to your post) in a situation where he just passed the 50 km/h flashing gantry (probably conveniently edited out). 

I know I don't always slow down to 50 immediately, but driving 130 when the speed limit is reduced to 50 km/h is quite another story. Traffic had slowed way down just a few hundred meters down the road. 

While the move of the Mercedes was weird and perhaps unnecessary at that point,* it's a good example of how other motorists can misjudge if you are driving so far over the speed limit. We're not talking about those 90% of speeding fines issued for going 10 km/h over the speed limit. 

* I've read they routinely close the right lane before the tunnel to let traffic merge so regular drivers know they have to get on the left lane at some point, which may have explained the left move of the Mercedes.


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## snowdog

EMG is a joke, the people who have had one and told how it goes basically tell it's a ''speed is bad mkay'' course. Anyone can play along and show up and nothing more...

I could post whole pages on how it's morally despicable to think you can tell others how to travel and bend to the rules without question, but I'll spare you that story because it's bound to pollute the topic instead of posting nice photo's and video's of the Dutch roads and having a nice discussion over this.



ChrisZwolle said:


> In other words, he was driving 80 kilometers over the speed limit... :nuts:
> 
> The sequence for motorway traffic management is;
> 
> * 70 km/h flashing
> * 50 km/h flashing
> * 50 km/h not flashing
> 
> The video shows the next MTM gantry at 50 km/h not flashing, so when the video starts, he was driving 130 km/h (according to your post) in a situation where he just passed the 50 km/h flashing gantry (probably conveniently edited out).
> 
> I know I don't always slow down to 50 immediately, but driving 130 when the speed limit is reduced to 50 km/h is quite another story. Traffic had slowed way down just a few hundred meters down the road.
> 
> While the move of the Mercedes was weird and perhaps unnecessary at that point,* it's a good example of how other motorists can misjudge if you are driving so far over the speed limit. We're not talking about those 90% of speeding fines issued for going 10 km/h over the speed limit.
> 
> * I've read they routinely close the right lane before the tunnel to let traffic merge so regular drivers know they have to get on the left lane at some point, which may have explained the left move of the Mercedes.


It does seem so, he claims otherwise.
Having 50 and 70 kph limits in the first place is a different discussion, but formally you are probably right. The problem is that people use the speed limit as an excuse to become lazy when mirroring and ignoring priority/right of way. Also the Merc's behavior is unnecessary, it does nothing but to hinder faster traffic. 

If it was up to me al people who change lanes very early (''vroegvoorsorteerders'') should have their license schredded, and all people who don't yield when they should. And yes, I know the majority on this forum (and in general in NL, but this forum in particular with a more dominant left wing community) disagrees, I will always stand by this point of view, I've had this PoV way before I had my licence, and even after almost 10 years of driving cars and bikes it hasn't changed.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Deventer - Azelo*

This is what 18,000 trucks per day look like on A1 near Deventer. They have started to widen the motorway to six lanes.


A1 Oxersteeg 18-04-2019-5 by European Roads, on Flickr

Actual road construction so far has been limited to paving some temporary refuge areas. Built they installed dozens of gantries for the lane signalling. Each gantry spans 54 meters.


A1 Langstraat 18-04-2019-2 by European Roads, on Flickr



A1 Beusebergerweg 18-04-2019-5 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## General Maximus

Compared to volumes, is the A1 comparable to the A67 between Venlo and Eindhoven? The high amount of trucks there is unbelievable, with no overtaking ban...


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## ChrisZwolle

A67 has slightly higher truck volumes overall, in particular the heavy truck share is higher than on A1. But the light vehicle volume on A67 is lower than A1, especially on its middle section, so A1 still has higher total traffic volumes. It has also been noted that 60-65% of trucks on A67 travel the entire route from Belgium to Germany (transit traffic).


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## General Maximus

It's the main hub from northern Germany and Poland to France and the UK via Antwerp. When going from Calais towards Hamburg and Scandinavia, I either opt for the Dutch A1 route (like most of my colleagues) or via Joure and Groningen. A few miles more, but lighter traffic than the Venlo - Dortmund - German A1 route.


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## snowdog

General Maximus said:


> You can tell the lack of space with all the tailgating the Dutch have embarked on. Christ! Also, there's a major disturbance in Holland when it comes to indicating...
> 
> It's like Snowdog's fanclub are all out there to see me after all my insults towards him on here...


Ha! 


In Rotterdam itself, traffic is quite calm actually, never been so quickly at work and back at home as last friday, I like holiday periods, a lot of people bugger off to no-mans land and my area becomes more livable and driveable .


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## ChrisZwolle

5 people were killed when their car collided with a gantry this past night. 4 on A1 near Deventer and 1 on A28 near Staphorst. In February, 3 people were killed when their car collided with a gantry on A59 near Rosmalen.

So that is 8 deaths in total (there may have been more), due to a crash with a gantry. 

There are calls to install crash barriers at these gantries even if they are considered to be outside of the 'obstacle-free zone'. The A28 gantry actually has an acceptable crash barrier, so the car must've driven at least 70 meters off the road, but tight along the barrier, to hit the gantry. 

Out of these 3 crashes, 2 can be considered 'how did he do that?'. The one on A1 near Deventer appears to be a deviation off course and collision with the gantry. The one on A28 seems almost impossible to achieve and the one on A59 was almost a 90-degree crash, which also seems almost impossible to achieve under normal driving circumstances. 

What all these crashes have in common is that they occurred late at night / very early morning on a weekend. So there may have been alcohol or drugs involved, though deceased drivers are not tested - this is a gap in knowledge in Dutch traffic safety.


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## General Maximus

Are post-mortems illegal after road accidents?


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## Attus

"Bij nat wegdek" means "if the surface is wet", correct? 
However the letters on those signs are so small, I passed two ones of them without being able to read the text, and slowed down although the weather was quite dry. However at the seond one I was sure I had missed something because no one else braked.


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## ChrisZwolle

Those are signs are just for legal reasons, to avoid _Rijkswaterstaat_ getting sued, almost everyone ignores them even if it is raining hard.


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## Coccodrillo

ChrisZwolle said:


> You can see these are all Germans because they create a _Rettungsgasse_. The Dutch don't do this because emergency services in the Netherlands use the shoulder instead of racing through two lanes of stopped vehicles.


What of the two options (Rettungsgasse or shoulder use) is the best way to bring in rescuers in case of accident?

The best option might be park all vehicles on the left side, spaced enough to llow people leaving them, but with more space for emergency vehicles on the right side of the motorway (shoulder + part of the right lane).


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## ChrisZwolle

It depends on the width of the shoulder. In some countries they are 2.5 m wide, which is too narrow for fire trucks to drive across at a reasonable speed. Dutch shoulders are 3.5 m wide and they generally also have shoulders on ramps, so emergency services have good access via the shoulder and are not dependent on traffic obeying the 'Rettungsgasse' rule or not. 

Another advantage of shoulder usage is that most people exit their vehicle on the left (driver's seat), potentially stepping out into the _Rettungsgasse_ lane.

Contraflow access is considered the worst option, it takes too long to make sure there is no oncoming traffic.


----------



## BriedisUnIzlietne

Can't they put up symbols to represent the "bij nat wegdek"? Something like this:


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## MrAronymous

We aren't really good at the white undersign game in general. We almost never use the one with the upwards pointing arrows (meaning "over Xm"). In my town there's one that says "na 25 m". Foreigners just have to guess what 'na' is supposed to mean. Without adding na ('after') you have the same meaning _and_ it would follow the internationally recognized rules...


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## ChrisZwolle

I think this is in general a problem in Europe. A lot of countries have implemented such signs in recent decades, most of those fall outside the scope of the Vienna convention on road signs. Another recent phenomenon are environmental zones, which are not standardized at all, both by access regulations and traffic signs.


----------



## Wover

Coccodrillo said:


> What of the two options (Rettungsgasse or shoulder use) is the best way to bring in rescuers in case of accident?
> 
> The best option might be park all vehicles on the left side, spaced enough to llow people leaving them, but with more space for emergency vehicles on the right side of the motorway (shoulder + part of the right lane).


A really great youtube channel to understand how to behave around emergency vehicles is AmbuChannel, by a Dutch ambulance driver: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAM-cN-N35LuEl-Z1zW5A_A/videos?view=0&sort=p&flow=grid

It has great tips in the subtitles, though I've noticed that emergency vehicle drivers in different countries use different approaches...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ChrisZwolle said:


> 5 people were killed when their car collided with a gantry this past night. 4 on A1 near Deventer and 1 on A28 near Staphorst. In February, 3 people were killed when their car collided with a gantry on A59 near Rosmalen.
> 
> So that is 8 deaths in total (there may have been more), due to a crash with a gantry.
> 
> There are calls to install crash barriers at these gantries even if they are considered to be outside of the 'obstacle-free zone'. The A28 gantry actually has an acceptable crash barrier, so the car must've driven at least 70 meters off the road, but tight along the barrier, to hit the gantry.
> 
> Out of these 3 crashes, 2 can be considered 'how did he do that?'. The one on A1 near Deventer appears to be a deviation off course and collision with the gantry. The one on A28 seems almost impossible to achieve and the one on A59 was almost a 90-degree crash, which also seems almost impossible to achieve under normal driving circumstances.
> 
> What all these crashes have in common is that they occurred late at night / very early morning on a weekend. So there may have been alcohol or drugs involved, though deceased drivers are not tested - this is a gap in knowledge in Dutch traffic safety.


Yet another 4 people were killed when they collided with a gantry. hno: This one had a proper crash barrier.

This raises the number of traffic deaths after a collision with a gantry to 12 in 2 months. All crashes occurred at night and involved drivers and occupants in their twenties.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1120835685592772616


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## g.spinoza

20-odd people? 
Smartphone.


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## General Maximus

You don't know that.


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## Wilhem275

Sadly, it's not a problem limited to youngsters.


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## g.spinoza

General Maximus said:


> You don't know that.


No, I don't.
But I'd bet on it.


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## MrAronymous

It looks like they together use the same materials based on Dutch road designs. But maintenance will be done by each party, and you'll see a mix of both types of traffic signs and street lights, depending on where you are located.

In this picture you see from right to left; Belgian signs, Dutch signs, Belgian signs, faded Belgian sign, Dutch signs. Behind you, on the other side of the street, you can even see both Belgian and Dutch signs sharing a pole.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A10 Amsterdam*

The 'Zuidasdok' project of A10 in Amsterdam appears to be heading to a major redesign or even cancellation.

The € 1.6 billion project has already been awarded and is in the design phase. The contractor has problems coming up with an acceptable design and it is already delayed. 

The project included a 12 lane tunnel of A10, a redesign of two motorway interchanges and the expansion of the Amsterdam Zuid railway station. It has long been criticized that only half the original project would cost a lot and has limited benefit. The original, € 3+ billion plan was to put both the motorway and railway underground. The current plan only puts the motorway underground, which replaces a motorway with an expansive rail yard. The project is seen as a major prestige and is bound for extensive cost overruns and long-term disruption of the area.

It has also been criticized whether a growth of traffic to 300,000+ vehicles per day should be accommodated at all, and if large-scale development of office space at such a location is a good idea given the constraints of the transportation systems. Some experts also fear that tunnel traffic metering will create extensive additional traffic congestion in the area, similar to other tunnels. Given the proximity of the tunnel to other motorways, this could significantly impact the regional network. 10 to 15 kilometer backups are regularly recorded at the tunnels of A2 and A4. 

The minister has published a letter to parliament, in which she said that mediation between the government and the contractor will be initiated, but also that a new study will be done for the purpose and need of the project, including possible downscaling of the project. Most people read this as a possibility that the entire project will be redesigned / downscaled.

A render of the plan:


----------



## da_scotty

Doesn't that render miss the 3rd train platform?


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ Amsterdam Zuid needs more platforms as it will become de departure point of international trains to/from Amsterdam.

So road tunnel or not, the station needs more space.


----------



## da_scotty

I know, but they have already started building a extra rail-passenger passage. And if you read my message, you see that I say the renders misses the 3rd platform.


----------



## Suburbanist

da_scotty said:


> I know, but they have already started building a extra rail-passenger passage. And if you read my message, you see that I say the renders misses the 3rd platform.


I was replying to Chris, and so were you simultaneously


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> So road tunnel or not, the station needs more space.


They could construct a huge elevated structure on top of the station :naughty:


----------



## Penn's Woods

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ Amsterdam Zuid needs more platforms as it will become de departure point of international trains to/from Amsterdam.
> 
> So road tunnel or not, the station needs more space.




Wait, international trains will no longer come into Centraal?


----------



## Suburbanist

Penn's Woods said:


> Wait, international trains will no longer come into Centraal?


No. Thalys, ICE, Eurostar will all depart from Amsterdam Zuid. I'm not sure about the IC Brussel service. A'dam Zuid is now very well connected through new (since 2018) and formerly existing subway lines to all quarters of the city. Amsterdam major business hub is also going to be the Zuidas.

That way they can release more capacity for local services at Centraal.

The subway trip between Centraal and Zuid takes, I believe, 11 minutes. With intermediate stops at major key points for tourists and visitors in general as well.


----------



## Surel

^^

Platforms at such places should be in fact incorporated into buildings. It's a waste of space, while there's no reason why you could not build even two stores of platforms in the basement, using the space above them for development, incorporating the station into the buildings.


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## ChrisZwolle

That was the original plan for the 'Zuidasdok' project: motorway and railway underground with buildings on top of it. But it was considered to be too expensive with a real estate market not being cooperative at that time.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15 Suurhoff Bridge, Rotterdam*

The Suurhoff Bridge of A15 in the Port of Rotterdam is in very poor condition. The bridge was originally built in 1972 as part of the port expansion at the time, when they dug the Hartel Canal. 

It is a bascule bridge with a 90 meter main span and a 233 meter overall length. The steel deck is in poor condition, it was originally planned to be rehabilitated using high strength concrete, which is widely used in the Netherlands for bridge renovations since the mid-2000s. However it was determined that this type of renovation was not possible and the bridge needs to be replaced.

The replacement of the bridge is estimated at € 86 million and procedures were initiated in 2017. The new bridge will span the canal at a much lower angle, allowing for a better traffic flow. However the new bridge won't be completed until the late 2020s, while the current bridge has expended its service life by late 2021. 

They have now awarded a € 35.7 million contract to build a temporary arch bridge for the driving direction of Rotterdam. This way the existing bridge will be relieved and can be maintained until the new bridge will be completed in 10 years or so. 

The temporary arch bridge will be designed in a way that it can be reused elsewhere, as it is planned to carry traffic for only 10 or 15 years at this location.


----------



## Wilhem275

So RWS will have a temporary bridge to be used where needed.
The city of Venice has some 2 or 3 portable bridges for maintenance closures, they're just smaller 

Will the rail bridge be replaced or relocated too? Seems it's a separate structure.


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## mgk920

bogdymol said:


> How does road maintenance work in Baarle-Nassau (in the city itself and on this new bypass road)?
> 
> Is there only one entity who takes care of that, funded by both countries? Having the maintenance done by each country separately sounds like a nightmare...


I'm just happy that those two countries are _at peace_ with each other!



Mike


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Gaia*

Tunnel boring machine 'Gaia' of the Rijnland Route project near Leiden (A4 to A44).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Badhoevedorp - Holendrecht*

The final contract of the SAA megaproject has been provisionally awarded to a consortium known as VEENIX.

The contract will widen A9 to 2x4 lanes between the Holendrecht (A2) and Badhoevedorp (A4) interchanges, south of Amsterdam. This is the last leg of the Schiphol-Amsterdam-Almere megaproject, which has a total value of over € 5 billion. 

VEENIX is a consortium that consists of
* Macquarie Capital
* Siemens
* Count & Cooper
* FCC

FCC will be the main constructor, it is a Spanish construction giant. It is their first major contract in the Netherlands. It is also the first time that such a large PPP road concession has been awarded to a consortium with no Dutch construction company. There were only 2 bids. 

Construction is planned between 2020 and 2026. The concession has runs for 14 years and is a DBFM contract: Design, Build, Finance, Maintain.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Motorway lighting*

The motorway lighting will be turned back on.

There were many silly budget cuts agreed in 2013 to approve the budget after the Rutte I government collapsed. These included turning off the motorway lighting at night.

There are 4 types;
* Urban motorways or complex situations: lit throughout the night
* Major intercity motorways: shut off between 11 p.m. and 5 a.m.
* Motorways through nature reserves (mostly Veluwe): shut off between 9 p.m. and 5 a.m.
* Unlit motorways

The shutting off policy was frozen in 2017. At that the the new lighting plan was implemented by 26%, resulting in 550 kilometers of motorways without lighting at night.

Citing international studies, the minister has decided to turn the lights back on, basically everywhere, though she has to consider the impact on rare species. These will be studies, they anticipate that most motorways can have their lights turned back on without problems, some need some kind of mitigation which may take up to 12 months to complete.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*North Brabant logistics hub*

The province of North Brabant has seen a huge increase in the number of logistics companies over the past 10-15 years. 

The province is strategically located, a very large consumer base can be reached within 4 hours of driving (Netherlands, Belgium, Western Germany). So many companies settle or expand operations there. 

However the traffic situation is deteriorating rather quickly in this province. Most investment since 2000 was geared towards north-south corridors (A4, A16, A2, A50) but less so on the east-west corridors. 

A59 passes by Waalwijk, which is a major logistics hub, including a large distribution center for bol.com, which is the largest web store in the Netherlands. Traffic volumes on A59 have risen by 8,000 - 10,000 vehicles per day in just 5 years. A59 is increasingly congested despite it used to be described as a 'motorway to nowhere'.

A59 Waalwijk:









A17 Roosendaal:


----------



## MrAronymous

ChrisZwolle said:


> The motorway lighting will be turned back on.


Awful news. Unlit motorways are so much more pleasant. Other cars are easier to identify, signs and road markings are much much much easier to see and there's less strain on the eyes.


----------



## Theijs

MrAronymous said:


> Awful news. Unlit motorways are so much more pleasant. Other cars are easier to identify, signs and road markings are much much much easier to see and there's less strain on the eyes.


IMHO this is very subjective. It depends on the kind of light, the kelvin, lumen and surrounding/ environment.


----------



## da_scotty

I hate the ones in Leiden. They use them a lot in the underpasses under main junctions. They are tight, small and also invite using the wrong side instead of going 3/4 round.


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## Suburbanist

da_scotty said:


> I hate the ones in Leiden. They use them a lot in the underpasses under main junctions. They are tight, small and also invite using the wrong side instead of going 3/4 round.


Maybe the solution is direction-separated bike-lanes then.

when I lived in Tilburg, a few of its cycling paths had small grass patches or tile mounds separating directions of flow. Example here


----------



## keokiracer

Suburbanist said:


> Maybe the solution is direction-separated bike-lanes then.


Maybe, just maybe, this is literally trying to fix something that isn't a problem... Roundabouts on cyclepaths are the definition of overengineering.


----------



## mgk920

Suburbanist said:


> On the off-topic subject: my hairdresser when I was living in the Netherlands, who speaks good enough but not fluent English, once told me that she needed to explain more than once for newly arrived American clients that they just need to pay the fee. According to her, once a woman on her late 20s even tried to sneak a 5 Euro bill on the hairdresser purse, which is meant for tools, so the hairdresser had to wash it after returning the bill to the customer.


Rewarding people on an individual basis for jobs well done is a very deep, long standing part of the USA's culture.

------------

Getting back to the real topic of this thread, I've sometimes pondered the idea of bicycle pathways with medians/center reservations.

Hmmm....

Bicycle versions of motorways?

:yes:

Mike


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## Slagathor

Which is fine. But when you're not in America, you should consider your surroundings.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Many workers in the U.S. hospitality sector get paid wages that are far too low to make a living on. They need those tips to make ends meet. 

In most of Europe these workers have a collective bargaining agreement with a pay at least at, or above the minimum wage.


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## g.spinoza

mgk920 said:


> Rewarding people on an individual basis for jobs well done is a very deep, long standing part of the USA's culture.


And that makes sense when tipping is something rare, given for a very good job.

When it's institutionalized, given to everyone regardless, it fails its purpose.


----------



## Rover030

mgk920 said:


> Rewarding people on an individual basis for jobs well done is a very deep, long standing part of the USA's culture.
> 
> ------------
> 
> Getting back to the real topic of this thread, I've sometimes pondered the idea of bicycle pathways with medians/center reservations.
> 
> Hmmm....
> 
> Bicycle versions of motorways?
> 
> :yes:
> 
> Mike


Some bicycle streets have sort of center reservations, but it's just a brick strip in the middle. Like here. But I think officially the goal of that is to stimulate drivers to stay behind cyclists instead of dangerously passing them, but still making it possible.

However it also helps with keeping cyclists on their own half of the street except when passing. Without a strip like this, kids and students would happily cycle 4 next to each other, taking up 2/3rds or more of the street. Now that happens pretty much only when passing.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N307 Lelystad - Enkhuizen*

N307 across the Lelystad - Enkhuizen dam is closed again after a lot of sand blew onto the road. They are mitigating this problem by overlaying the white sand with heavier soil, but this has not been completed everywhere (2 x 10 km x 100 m)


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## Slagathor

Funny how we're all freaking out over a bit of sand when it used to be that roads were _made of_ sand.


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## Suburbanist

I miss the green central lane on N307 :|


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## Stuu

mgk920 said:


> Bicycle versions of motorways?


I posted this last year in the Cycling in the Netherlands thread:



Stuu said:


> I know cycling infrastructure is taken very seriously in the Netherlands, but this is quite something - it's a grade-separated junction on a cycle path! Just wow!


It wasn't strictly designed as a GSJ but it's as close as I can imagine to a motorway for cyclists (the Kruithuispad bridge and ramps up/down are for cyclists only)


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## Suburbanist

Imagine a coverleaf cycling interchange! :cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

This satellite image from 31 July 2019 shows that the dam had sand mitigation almost completed on the north side (Lake IJssel side), but only just began on the south side (Lake Marken side). 

It's a very large surface area: 10 km * 100 m and along both sides = 2,000,000 m² of soil required.


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## ChrisZwolle

*hectometer markers*

Numbered roads in the Netherlands have hectometer markers, which used to be installed every 100 meters, but policy has varied over the recent years.

The old style hectometer markers were green with just a value (0,1 1,0 1,9 etc). No number, no speed limit.

Then they introduced route numbers on the hectometer markers. In many cases this was the first time a number in the 400-999 range were indicated anywhere. These numbers were introduced in 1994, but are rarely signed on the directional signs. 

Then they introduced speed limits on hectometer markers, usually 80 or more as these roads tend to be outside city limits. From this point on, policy among road authorities began to diverge. Each province began to design their own hectometer markers, usually with a logo. Some indicated speed limits on every 0,1 km, others only at full kilometers. In addition, some provinces began installing markers every 0,2 km instead of every 0,1 km. 

Overijssel-style 0,2 km markers:


N756-1 by European Roads, on Flickr


N756-2 by European Roads, on Flickr


N756-4 by European Roads, on Flickr


N756-5 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## UnequalSine

The logo of the province really annoys me. Too small to read when traveling by, so just a waste of material


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## julesstoop

Slagathor said:


> We don't tip. You pay what it costs and that's it.


I’m Dutch, I live in the Netherlands and I always tip. Electronically.


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## mgk920

julesstoop said:


> I’m Dutch, I live in the Netherlands and I always tip. Electronically.


Many USAians will also put '0' on the tip line on a credit or debit card transaction and give the server a cash tip, instead. It makes it harder for the tax enforcers to track.

Mike


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## da_scotty

Tip/Hint --> let's stop talking about tips.

@chris.

Will we see more signs showing the higher N-numbers as well? Not only on distance markers?


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## ChrisZwolle

N400+ numbers are more likely to be signed in the future, especially in combination with GPS, which usually shows these higher N-numbers. But it also depends on the type of route, a large amount of N400-999 are very short routes with a local character, though some form more important links or have higher design standards than others, for example N470 and N471 north of Rotterdam. I believe they are more frequently signed in southeastern Netherlands. 

N710 (Biddinghuizen - Swifterbant) is 14 kilometers long, but only signed at the N307 interchange.

N23-30-04-2012-37 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## Slagathor

Attus said:


> I did not know there are holiday resorts in Zeeland.
> Actually I neither know now, but there must be some there since I can't see any other reasons why A58 was heavily congested this morning from A58 towards Middelburg. A heavy congestion in a length of 20kms, from A4 (I came from Belgium) up to the Vlaketunnel. And I couldn't see any restriction in or at the tunnel so actually I dont understand why there was a congestion until that but free flow of traffic after the tunnel.


Tourism is one of the key industries in Zeeland. Lots of tourists from the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany go there every single summer.

But the freak traffic jams are mostly caused by Brabanders (people from cities like Breda, Tilburg and Eindhoven) who all wanna go to the beach when the weather is nice. They wake up in the morning, see the temperature and hop in the car.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

Attus said:


> I did not know there are holiday resorts in Zeeland.
> Actually I neither know now, but there must be some there since I can't see any other reasons why A58 was heavily congested this morning from A58 towards Middelburg. A heavy congestion in a length of 20kms, from A4 (I came from Belgium) up to the Vlaketunnel. And I couldn't see any restriction in or at the tunnel so actually I dont understand why there was a congestion until that but free flow of traffic after the tunnel.


The A58 is often congested on hot days in the summer with traffic heading to the coast. Lots if beach towns all along the Zeeuwse coast.


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## Penn's Woods

Slagathor said:


> Tourism is one of the key industries in Zeeland. Lots of tourists from the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany go there every single summer.
> 
> But the freak traffic jams are mostly caused by Brabanders (people from cities like Breda, Tilburg and Eindhoven) who all wanna go to the beach when the weather is nice. They wake up in the morning, see the temperature and hop in the car.




I was in Europe in 2015, in part to see a bit of the Tour de France. One stage ended at Neeltje Jans, and I tried* to stop by the road at the five-kilometers-to-the-finish line to watch. So I went into Burgh-Haamstede to get something to eat while I waited.... I remember noticing that a local supermarket had a display of newspapers that were all in German. (And Tour spectators were parking at a campground).

*”tried” because there was a downpour while I waited, so I walked the kilometer or so back to my car to dry off and change clothes as discreetly as possible. After the -second- downpour, I gave up and drove to Antwerp to dry off in my hotel. I wish I’d just parked by the road - that IS permitted; I could have sat it out in the car.


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## ChrisZwolle

The driver declared: 'my GPS told me to keep left'.


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## ChrisZwolle

Attus said:


> I did not know there are holiday resorts in Zeeland.
> Actually I neither know now, but there must be some there since I can't see any other reasons why A58 was heavily congested this morning from A4 towards Middelburg. A heavy congestion in a length of 20kms, from A4 (I came from Belgium) up to the Vlaketunnel. And I couldn't see any restriction in or at the tunnel so actually I dont understand why there was a congestion until that but free flow of traffic after the tunnel.


The traffic returns from the beaches:


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## snowdog

*A16/A13 link progress*

Construction of the viaduct over the president Rooseveltweg is progressing well:
































(loc: https://goo.gl/maps/G4MhEE9JMyp4yrLu9 )



Unfortunately nothing happening yet at the Rotte  :








location: https://goo.gl/maps/NN8AERsoNVaR4Np79


Wish they'd hurry up, 4 more years of pain in the *** traffic in R'dam north area.
On knp. Terbregge also a lot of visible progress, I could post a dashcam video perhaps of that soon, it's really starting to take shape there. It's hard to get good photo points legally there though, best bet is a few shots from car!


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## da_scotty

Also a lot of groundworks near Rotterdam Airport! I'll see if i can make some pictures from my bike down there!


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## The Polwoman

> Construction of the viaduct over the president Rooseveltweg is progressing well:


That first segment is making the most progress right now in the actual field. This entire next year will be giving quite exciting views on the different legs of Terbregesplein interchange, because pillars for the A16 above the entire current situation will be installed. Sorry for not having exact dates yet, but it will be quite soon :cheers:

Many trees in the Lage Bergse Bos (park/forest area) are chopped but not yet all of them, they will be compensated as part of our legislation.


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## ChrisZwolle

*A24*

The construction progress on the new A24 Blankenburg Tunnel west of Rotterdam is becoming more visible on this aerial photo:


----------



## EPA001

^^ Great picture which shows the location from the South-West to the North-East. kay:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The temporary DDI at the A44 / N206 interchange at Leiden.


----------



## Wilhem275

I'd love to see a video of it at work.


----------



## snowdog

Free right turns (or merging right turns) should be the standard on any intersection without parallel stuff like cycle lanes/ped paths/stoops.

Eg.
https://goo.gl/maps/2qE3euoJyVubSSh97

Why on earth are there traffic lights for right turns there?


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## da_scotty

Because some weird rule that Non _stroomweg_ roads can't be freeflow with _stroomweg_ roads. That's why you see weird sharp turns at some junctions just because they wan't to remove the speed between the roads. You can see this at the Amsterdam -> Schiphol ringroad junction (A4/N470) or Delft->Rotterdam | The Hague->Delft(A4/N470) as well. Really strange sharp corners instead of a smooth curve.

I believe the Dutch are the only ones to split these road categories so strictly. I agree (for once) that this could be done smoother. Not because of the speed element, but just because there is no real reason for it.


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## Wilhem275

There's also a matter of flow disruption and capacity control.

A free-flow right turn will often slow down the flow coming from the main path, unless the receiving road is fitted with a full extra lane.
That's also the reason behind the artificial speed reduction through sharp turns, to avoid merging traffic approaching faster than the main flow.

In the case of this DDI, you really want to keep the flow as smooth as possible.
If the lights are timed efficiently, there isn't much space left for merging traffic while the flow is moving.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Ringvaart Aquaduct*

A4 goes under a canal known as the 'Ringvaart' (ring canal) of the Haarlemmermeer Polder. It is located at the provincial border of North and South Holland.

The first 'aquaduct' was built in 1961, a second was built in 2010. The old aquaduct was then reconfigured to one-way traffic (southbound), and reduced from 4 to 3 lanes for safety (it is very narrow). 

There are plans to expand capacity on A4 to 2x4 lanes. The old aquaduct will be removed. There were two variants: 

* build a new aquaduct at the location of the old one (variant west)
* build a new aquaduct east of the new one (variant east) 

The east variant would require a significant realignment of A4 since driving directions in the 2010 aquaduct would be changed. They would require a larger right of way acquisition to make that happen.

So it was announced today that the minister has selected the western alternative: replace the existing one. The cost estimate is € 80 million. A project like this has never been done before on the Dutch motorway system.

During construction, traffic will be moved into the 2010 aquaduct, with a 6+0 system (6 lanes in one aquaduct), while the old aquaduct is being removed and rebuilt similar to the 2010 aquaduct.

1961 aquaduct (to be replaced):









2010 aquaduct:









This is what a 4+0 system looked like back in 2010. As you can see, a 6+0 system could fit without problems.

A4-11-8-2010-8 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*2020 budget*

The 2020 budget will be revealed tomorrow. Not many details have leaked regarding to infrastructure. There has been talk about an investment fund for long-term benefits, and infrastructure will likely play a role in that because infrastructure provides such benefits beyond the initial investment. 

It's unclear how this would be implemented, alongside or replacing the existing infrastructure fund. Previously it was announced that the existing infrastructure fund would be reformed to a mobility fund by 2022. 

The 2019 infrastructure fund budget amounted to € 7.3 billion: € 3.1 billion for roads, € 2 billion for railroads, € 1.3 billion for waterways and other smaller items.

The new budget usually doesn't contain many surprises in regards to roads, as infrastructure planning develops over the years. The most important item is to see which projects are adopted in the MIRT, which is the planning and budget allocation instrument. However, MIRT studies are usually announced separately during the year.

The 2020 budget will be followed up by intergovernmental discussion about infrastructure in the fall, so there are usually some changes, it's kind of a political scheme to make 'good news' announcements. Usually they find room to expedite projects or announce funding for previously unfunded projects.


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> So it was announced today that the minister has selected the western alternative: replace the existing one. The cost estimate is € 80 million. A project like this has never been done before on the Dutch motorway system.


Is there already a timeframe known for constructing this badly needed new aquaduct?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A construction start is scheduled for 2028.

This is one of those things that might be pushed forward in the new budget or fall intergovernmental meetings. 

This project is part of the A4 widening from the Burgerveen interchange (A44) to the Leidschendam interchange (N14). A4 will be widened to 2x4 lanes, however they are studying an alternative to expand the Leiden bypass by more than 1 lane in each direction (possibly 2+3+3+2 as it should've been built in the first place).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*rest areas*

Two motorway rest areas on A58 in Zeeland province have toilet blocks. This is uncommon in the Netherlands, normally only service areas with a gas station have toilets. 

The toilets were installed in 2008 but never worked properly and had problems with vandalism and hygiene. They will be removed before the 2020 summer tourist season. 

Bathrooms / rest rooms along Dutch motorways are pretty bad compared to some other countries. Since most motorists don't drive for more than an hour, not many people use them compared to France or Germany. There is not really a culture to take a break on a motorway rest area, most people would drive straight from A to B, since very few trips are over 2 hours in length. 



On a separate issue, the Dutch motorway service areas with gas stations are auctioned off every 10 years. They are usually auctioned in tranches, last week they auctioned about 20 locations. The sum paid for the exploitation of a gas station ranges from several millions to over € 20 million. Which is a huge sum of money compared to the profit margin of fuel sales at those locations (despite the higher fuel prices). Most of these locations are only profitable because of the convenience store. They make more money selling overpriced sandwiches and coffee than gasoline and diesel.

Not every location changes hands at such an auction. Oil companies pay big money to retain a profitable location. The cost has become so prohibitive though, that only large companies can afford them, pushing out the independent operators.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*2020 budget*

The 2020 budget has been released. In terms of road news, it is a 'nothing burger'. There is just nothing that is notable. They will allocate € 100 million for deferred maintenance but nearly all of that will be spent on waterways. Other than that it is business as usual. 

What is perhaps most interesting is the 2019 budget, the one published today and the one prepared a year ago. They have spent considerably less than planned.

The 2019 budget (prepared in September 2018) had € 3.1 billion allocated to motorways, of which € 1.46 billion was listed as 'construction'. The new 2020 budget shows that this has been reduced to € 2.4 and € 0.58 billion respectively. So that is nearly 30% less than anticipated, and almost € 900 million less spent on construction than planned.

This may have to do with projects that did not go into construction phase yet. They only list N33 which has not started, but my guess is that the fact that A10 in Amsterdam and the A15 extension to Zevenaar have not started, among others, have contributed to the fact that less money is spent this year. 

This doesn't mean that the money is lost though, as this is a fund, it is just moved to the next year.

An interesting factoid that was presented is that the Dutch motorway capacity has a 'technical availability' of 99%. So excluding incidents, construction only takes 1% of capacity away annually, mostly in the form of overnight construction. They also stated that only 2% of traffic congestion is due to construction. I wonder how this compares to Germany or Belgium.


----------



## Suburbanist

*Cycle crossing X cow path*

They put some fancy signaling on a bike path so that the animals on the cow path have priority over bicycles 









from Twitter https://twitter.com/BicycleDutch/status/1175769078767804417

The sing alerts bicyclists that more than one animal might be crossing the path :nuts:


----------



## da_scotty

Nice train reference.


----------



## MrAronymous

That's not a priority sign, just a warning sign.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Statistics Netherlands released some figures regarding the euro emission standards of trucks.

58% of all Dutch trucks conform to Euro 6 and 75% of international trips are with a Euro 6 truck. Euro 6 trucks emit 97% less NOx than Euro 1 trucks (introduced in 1992).

95% of international trucking to and from the Netherlands are Euro 5 & 6 trucks.

Trips by Euro emission standard share:









Trip length by euro emission standard:


----------



## Rebasepoiss

The shitty old trucks end up in Eastern Europe e.g. Estonia since we don't have any limitations on using trucks with worse emmission standards (as long as they comply with the standards that were in place at the time of production). Apparently trucking companies now send newer trucks to Western Europe where road tax is often correlated to emission standards and older trucks to Eastern Europe where there is less incentive to use newer and less-polluting trucks i.e the older trucks are still on the road, just not in the Netherlands.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Netherlands doesn't have much incentive for trucks either. There is no truck toll (yet) and the road tax for older trucks is only marginally higher than those of euro 6 trucks.

International trucking is incentivized by the truck tolls in Germany, which are dependent on the euro emission standard. 

However even most domestic trucking companies often don't keep trucks on the road for very long, the lease usually ends after 4 or 5 years, after which they are cycled out of the fleet. This is also due to the rising maintenance cost of older trucks. 

Trucks can be used for various types of businesses. Those who make their money driving their trucks as much as possible will cycle through their fleet rather quickly. But for those where trucks are only a tool to make money on a location, there is less urgency to have the newest equipment. 

For example those operating a fair / traveling carnival often have some of the oldest trucks on the road. They only travel short distances once or twice per week, so they don't rack up high mileage.


----------



## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Netherlands doesn't have much incentive for trucks either. There is no truck toll (yet) and the road tax for older trucks is only marginally higher than those of euro 6 trucks.


In the Rotterdam harbor the Maasvakte 1&2 only allow Euro 6 trucks. I don't know how well that is enforced though.


----------



## Spookvlieger

Trucks older than 4-5 years are basically scrap. Most of these trucks have a mileage above 1million or even close to 2 million. Their engines are done for.

For the same reason you also don't see much old company vans driving around. A friend of mine installs wireless networks on a big scale across Belgium. His 3 year old delivery van made more than 500.000 and the engine was dead afther that.


----------



## verreme

^^ They may be considered scrap in Europe, but they are usually shipped to Africa where they live another, longer, harder life.


----------



## Suburbanist

Certain mechanical repairs require plenty of manual work and yield sub-par results, such as certain types of engine retrofitting. 

That is just anti-economic to do in the Netherlands. In certain poor countries, labor is much cheaper and standards are lax, so it pays off to import worn out vehicles.


----------



## EPA001

keokiracer said:


> In the Rotterdam harbor the Maasvakte 1&2 only allow Euro 6 trucks. I don't know how well that is enforced though.


From what I have been told they are enforcing this environmental condition quite good.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Knooppunt De Drie Klauwen*

The 'Drie Klauwen' (Three Claws) interchange in Zeeland province is set to open on Monday. It links N62 and N254.

Location: https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=51.4575&mlon=3.7429#map=16/51.4575/3.7429


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## ChrisZwolle

Over 2200 farming tractors drove to The Hague this morning, to protest for various issues. This caused a traffic chaos in a large portion of the Netherlands, as they took the motorways.

The police put up fences around the main field in the city, but the farmers just drove their tractors through them. Otherwise it was a peaceful protest. The police blocked roads, there were even photos of semi trucks blockading the main roads in The Hague, but these tractors just drove through parks and greenery. Several also drove across the beach to get in the city.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1178960606369652736


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1178947903005442048


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Apeldoorn - Hengelo*

The Council of State has dismissed all appeals against the widening of A1 in eastern Netherlands.

A single plan approval was issued for the entire 55 kilometer widening project. Construction is already significantly underway. 

One of the more amusing appeals regarded the overhead gantries for motorway signalisation. They wanted to lower the motorway so that they couldn't see the gantries, which are placed every 900 meters. Of course this was easily dismissed based on the absurd cost to achieve that.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N34 Coevorden - Emmen*

Construction begins next Monday to expand a segment of N34 to a four lane expresway, between the Coevorden-Noord interchange and the Holsloot motorway interchange with A37. 

The existing single carriageway 100 km/h road will be twinned. It will join the already twinned segment of N34 to Emmen.

Separatly but related, the N34/N391 interchange at Emmen will be reconstructed to a free-flowing interchange. A € 16.7 million contract has been awarded today.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Muiderberg*

I took some photos of A1 at the Muiderberg motorway interchange yesterday. This portion of A1 is 12 to 14 lanes wide.


A1 Muiderberg 02 by European Roads, on Flickr


A1 Muiderberg 06 by European Roads, on Flickr


A1 Muiderberg 05 by European Roads, on Flickr


A1 Muiderberg 08 by European Roads, on Flickr


A1 Muiderberg 09 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## roaddor

ChrisZwolle said:


> I took some photos of A1 at the Muiderberg motorway interchange yesterday. This portion of A1 is 12 to 14 lanes wide.


Why are these two lanes separated like that in the middle? What is their purpose?


----------



## da_scotty

reversible lane. The 2 lanes are opened in the peak direction (morning -> Amsterdam, evening -> Almere).


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## Suburbanist

roaddor said:


> Why are these two lanes separated like that in the middle? What is their purpose?


They are reversible lanes.


----------



## mgk920

Reversible express lanes, just like on the Kennedy Expressway (I-90/94) in Chicago.

Mike


----------



## roaddor

Alright. Surprised to imagine, however, so much traffic even near Amsterdam. After all we are talking about a 2x6 motorway and although Netherlands is densely populated, this is Europe not China.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are three motorways to Amsterdam that carry over 200,000 vehicles per day: A1, A2 and A4. The southern portion of A10 also carries 200,000 vehicles per day. 

By comparison, there is no motorway in Germany with such traffic volumes, and only 2 or 3 sections in France. The Netherlands has several, A2, A12 and A27 at Utrecht, A4 at The Hague and A16 at Rotterdam also carry over 200,000 vehicles per day.


----------



## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> and A16 at Rotterdam


A15 as well (201.400 @ Rotterdam-Lombardijen - Ridderkerk-Noord section)


----------



## Slagathor

roaddor said:


> Alright. Surprised to imagine, however, so much traffic even near Amsterdam. After all we are talking about a 2x6 motorway and although Netherlands is densely populated, this is Europe not China.


The result of spatial planning mistakes in the second half of the 20th century when the government banked heavily on satellite towns and suburbs. This means people need cars to get around.


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## roaddor

Well the metropolitan area of Amsterdam is 2.5 million nowadays. The correspondidng area of Athens for example is over 4.5 million. A6 there carries 220K vehicles on a daily basis at the moment and before the crisis (2009) it peaked over 300K vehicles per day. But A6 is a mere 2x3 motorway, even through the city. M25 around London is 2x4. I mean 2x6 is way too lavish and in addition to that there are reversible lanes. 
Sure you can build there 2x10 if you want but money should be invested in fast, next generation suburban rail transport. Even not on rails.


----------



## verreme

roaddor said:


> Well the metropolitan area of Amsterdam is 2.5 million nowadays. The correspondidng area of Athens for example is over 4.5 million. A6 there carries 220K vehicles on a daily basis at the moment and before the crisis (2009) it peaked over 300K vehicles per day. But A6 is a mere 2x3 motorway, even through the city. M25 around London is 2x4. I mean 2x6 is way too lavish and in addition to that there are reversible lanes.
> Sure you can build there 2x10 if you want but money should be invested in fast, next generation suburban rail transport. Even not on rails.


Money should be invested in urban planning that does not require 50-kilometer long commutes


----------



## roaddor

Such distances for the commuters will be travelled so to say with a blink of an eye in the near future.


----------



## aswnl

Dream on. No such thing as hyperloops, that's just lunacy. And public transport is not the way to go either. Just like verreme stated: better spatial planning and high taxing of companies concentrating al of their offices in citycenters. Not all offices, factories and businesses should be in the cities, spread them. The majority of the people don't want to live in cities: they should be able to work near where they want to live. In the long run that saves a hell lot of commuting. And whether by car of by train: less is more.


----------



## Suburbanist

aswnl said:


> Dream on. No such thing as hyperloops, that's just lunacy. And public transport is not the way to go either. Just like verreme stated: better spatial planning and high taxing of companies concentrating al of their offices in citycenters. Not all offices, factories and businesses should be in the cities, spread them. The majority of the people don't want to live in cities: they should be able to work near where they want to live. In the long run that saves a hell lot of commuting. And whether by car of by train: less is more.


Centrally-located offices make it easier to hire professionals who are married/partnered, in the context where almost all households have two working adults, and people no longer have one-job-for-life. Moving for work is problematic in these circumstances, so it is better that workplaces are located near transportation nodes so they can cast a wider net on the labor pool. A central location makes it easier for 1/2 of a household take a job without severely disrupting the other 1/2 who is not changing jobs. It also doesn't force one of the adults in a household of two to take have a life of side-jobs for which they are overqualified, just because they are following the other spouse with more location-dependent work placement.

Of course this affects much less occupations that take a lot of people, such as those on customer-facing retail operations. But these are already spread out, to some extent, throughout the country. But I don't think there are many people traveling 50km to work on a retail clerk job (there is nothing wrong with this occupation, let me say it; the only issue is that such occupations exist everywhere, and they pay is not that large, and the availability of workers not that small, that long commutes become the norm).

On technical roles, this becomes more of an issue. There has been an emptying of finance-related companies from other Dutch areas to Rotterdam and Amsterdam. Non-industrial engineering jobs are also concentrating in a few cities like Eindhoven, at the expense of regions like Twente or Limburg. 

In the case of Almere-Amsterdam traffic, what is needed is a new subway/metro system that integrates Almere with different areas of Amsterdam. There was such a plan some years ago, it even included an artificial island with a "sail-and-ride" station :crazy:

I also agree that resurrecting a high-speed rail project to link Groningen with Amsterdam through Flevoland would be a good idea to put cities like Heerenveen or Emmeloord within practical commuting distance of Amsterdam, which would make these cities explode in growth, like Almere.


----------



## roaddor

aswnl said:


> Dream on. No such thing as hyperloops, that's just lunacy. And public transport is not the way to go either. Just like verreme stated: better spatial planning and high taxing of companies concentrating al of their offices in citycenters. Not all offices, factories and businesses should be in the cities, spread them. The majority of the people don't want to live in cities: they should be able to work near where they want to live. In the long run that saves a hell lot of commuting. And whether by car of by train: less is more.


I don't necessarily say hyperloops. They are for longer distances and interstate cities. Greater Amsterdam is in fact a small city in comparison to the big metropolitan areas. Definitely not worth such 2x6 motorways for this size of population. Also the era in Western Europe when a lot ordinary workers are living in expensive houses and driving everyday their own cars to the workplace and back is over. This was possible before, not anymore. 
EU, however, is lagging behind the Far East and US in terms of technology and innovations. The future belongs to the transport which is shared.


----------



## da_scotty

roaddor said:


> I don't necessarily say hyperloops. They are for longer distances and interstate cities. Greater Amsterdam is in fact a small city in comparison to the big metropolitan areas. Definitely not worth such 2x6 motorways for this size of population. Also the era in Western Europe when a lot ordinary workers are living in expensive houses and driving everyday their own cars to the workplace and back is over. This was possible before, not anymore.
> EU, however, is lagging behind the Far East and US in terms of technology and innovations. The future belongs to the transport which is shared.


Yeah let's take the widespread US public transport and lack of road-based-infrastructure and mindset plus lack of US urban sprawling as a example...

FYI, there is also 10 trains an hour between Almere and Amsterdam in each direction, with large parts being 4-tracked. The demand is just massive, also as the A1 is the only highway east of Amsterdam. Trust me, driving there 2x6+2 is not overkill. That you name 2x3 highways with a lot of delays as example doesn't mean that that is the way to go.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The old A1 had 2x3 lanes + one reversible lane (originally a carpool lane). There was a drawbridge at Muiden. You could expect heavy traffic even during the weekend, one time I was driving to Schiphol Airport to pick someone up on a Friday around midnight, there was traffic congestion even at that hour. 

A1 further east through the Hilversum area has 2x2 lanes + shoulder running. I only drive there during weekends, but I have never seen the shoulder lane not in use. Traffic volumes are high enough even on Saturdays and Sundays to require six lanes of capacity. The absence of urban arterials for local trips doesn't help though.


----------



## roaddor

Okay, is it allowed to drive faster on the two endmost left lanes? Let's say 150-160km/h.


----------



## MrAronymous

No.


----------



## verreme

roaddor said:


> Such distances for the commuters will be travelled so to say with a blink of an eye in the near future.


Yeah, sure. Elon Musk and other such fantasizers got you all brainwashed. It's 2019, we have the same speed limits we had in 1970, and meanwhile we have killed the ecosystems of the entire planet. Yet we still have misty-eyed visions of 1950s space-age futures. Unbelievable.

Sorry for the off-topic. Sometimes I just can't keep my mouth shut.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This is also a criticism of the construction sector in general. There have been huge technological advancements in machinery, electronics and data collection, yet the productivity of the construction sector is the same as 40 years ago.


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> This is also a criticism of the construction sector in general. There have been huge technological advancements in machinery, electronics and data collection, yet the productivity of the construction sector is the same as 40 years ago.


I think it depends. Tunnel construction of supertall constructions has improved by leaps and bound over the last 40 years. Other construction activity had already been made quite efficient over time and it hard to make improvements (power dams, base overground railways and highways...). Some stuff got far more expensive to build due to new requirements (nuclear power plants). Construction of houses and low-rise buildings has been indeed on a non-evolving productivity conundrum. They probably need a new disruptive innovation, like very high-quality pre-fab "pick-and-mix" structures. None of that would make land costs cheaper, though, on itself.


----------



## Surel

aswnl said:


> Dream on. No such thing as hyperloops, that's just lunacy. And public transport is not the way to go either. Just like verreme stated: better spatial planning and high taxing of companies concentrating al of their offices in citycenters. Not all offices, factories and businesses should be in the cities, spread them. The majority of the people don't want to live in cities: they should be able to work near where they want to live. In the long run that saves a hell lot of commuting. And whether by car of by train: less is more.


Life is not only working. Even if people live in the countryside, they want to enjoy the perks of the city social life.

What you need is a completely new concept of individualized public transport.

It is a lunacy to think that people will give one of the biggest advancements in their well being, that is ever bigger freedom of movement.


----------



## roaddor

verreme said:


> Yeah, sure. Elon Musk and other such fantasizers got you all brainwashed. It's 2019, we have the same speed limits we had in 1970, and meanwhile we have killed the ecosystems of the entire planet. Yet we still have misty-eyed visions of 1950s space-age futures. Unbelievable.
> 
> Sorry for the off-topic. Sometimes I just can't keep my mouth shut.


Depends how you look at the things. That for the speed limits is totally wrong. Try to compare the speed in 1970 and now if you travel by car or train from Barcelona to Madrid and back. The difference is huge and this trend will continue in the future. 
We are witness to a complete change in the automobile industry.


----------



## Slagathor

IMO electric cars should be allowed to continue driving 130 km/h.

Diesel and petrol cars could do 100 km/h.

If your car was built in the 20th century, you shouldn't be allowed on any motorway at all.  You don't need to be bellowing exhaust fumes to reach 120km/h in a 1997 Fiat Panda where the crumple zone is your knee caps.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Slagathor said:


> IMO electric cars should be allowed to continue driving 130 km/h.
> 
> Diesel and petrol cars could do 100 km/h.
> 
> If your car was built in the 20th century, you shouldn't be allowed on any motorway at all.  You don't need to be bellowing exhaust fumes to reach 120km/h in a 1997 Fiat Panda where the crumple zone is your knee caps.




Or tie permitted speed to European environmental thresholds. Which I don’t know the details of but the sort of thing that prohibits you from entering certain city centers if your car was built before 20xx.


----------



## g.spinoza

joshsam said:


> My car uses the same amount of fuel per 100km when driving 90km/h or 140km/h.


So your car defies physics...


----------



## Spookvlieger

g.spinoza said:


> So your car defies physics...


I guess not but the difference is neglectable. 120km/h consumes more. Engines have a few rpm intervals on wich they run more efficient.

Try driving 90 in 4th gear and 90 in 5th gear. Eventhough the boardcomputer of your car says you should drive 90 in 5th gear it's by far not the most fuel efficient. 

I drive a car with a 1,6l VAG engine, diesel, manual and 90 in 4th gear is much more efficient than 90 in 5th gear. So much the boardcomputer indicates I use up to 2l/100km more in 5th gear :nuts:


----------



## g.spinoza

joshsam said:


> I guess not but the difference is neglectable. 120km/h consumes more. Engines have a few rpm intervals on wich they run more efficient.
> 
> Try driving 90 in 4th gear and 90 in 5th gear. Eventhough the boardcomputer of your car says you should drive 90 in 5th gear it's by far not the most fuel efficient.
> 
> I drive a car with a 1,6l VAG engine, diesel, manual and 90 in 4th gear is much more efficient than 90 in 5th gear. So much the boardcomputer indicates I use up to 2l/100km more in 5th gear :nuts:


For all the diesel cars I've driven, going 140 implies consuming ~ 14 km/l, while going 90 is more than 20.


----------



## Attus

Several German papers report today about the new Dutch speed limit, many of them write "The Netherlands reduce speed limits in order to fight against climate change". 
- Spiegel writes about nitrogen.
- Tagesschau, too.
- Deutschlandsfunk reports "Tempo 100 for the climate"
- Zeit, too, reports about climate protection. 

And they do it although the Dutch word for Nitrogen (stikstof) is the same like the German one (Stickstoff) and Dutch press does not report about climate (OK, I admit not having read all the Dutch papers).


----------



## Penn's Woods

Attus said:


> Several German papers report today about the new Dutch speed limit, many of them write "The Netherlands reduce speed limits in order to fight against climate change".
> 
> - Spiegel writes about nitrogen.
> 
> - Tagesschau, too.
> 
> - Deutschlandsfunk reports "Tempo 100 for the climate"
> 
> - Zeit, too, reports about climate protection.
> 
> 
> 
> And they do it although the Dutch word for Nitrogen (stikstof) is the same like the German one (Stickstoff) and Dutch press does not report about climate (OK, I admit not having read all the Dutch papers).




Is there any chance the Land of No Speed Limits would follow the Dutch example? Are there politicians urging it?


----------



## Attus

Penn's Woods said:


> Is there any chance the Land of No Speed Limits would follow the Dutch example? Are there politicians urging it?


The Green Party initiated just a few weeks ago to introduce a speed limit of 130 km/h (~ 80 MPH). It was rejected by the federal parliament (Bundestag). According to public opinion researches a slight majority of the population supports the idea.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

sponge_bob said:


> The NOX issue is mainly caused by petrol emissions is it not???


Most NOx emissions come from older diesel vehicles. Modern diesel vehicles don't emit much NOx due to AdBlue (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) systems. Trucks have had AdBlue for quite some time, many Euro 6 diesel cars also have such a system. 

This explains why NOx emissions are declining so quickly despite a growth in traffic volumes. The NOx emissions from road traffic declined by 5% last year alone. 

Due to the Dutch taxation system, there are few old diesel cars compared to Germany or France. The road tax is too high to drive a diesel car with low annual mileage, it only pays off if you drive 2 or 3 times more than the average car, and even then it is increasingly not worthwhile to drive a diesel car due to the quick depreciation. So within a few years the vast majority of diesel cars will comply to Euro 6 standards.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Sponsor said:


> @Chris do you have more pictures of before and after signs design?


Traffic sign D2 already had a white outline prior to the introduction of the new sign standards.


Verkeersbord B2R by European Roads, on Flickr

Traffic sign A1 did not have a white outline. This one is non-standard (15 km/h is not a typical speed limit).

maximumsnelheid 15 kmh 02 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## Surel

Slagathor said:


> IMO electric cars should be allowed to continue driving 130 km/h.
> 
> Diesel and petrol cars could do 100 km/h.
> 
> If your car was built in the 20th century, you shouldn't be allowed on any motorway at all.  You don't need to be bellowing exhaust fumes to reach 120km/h in a 1997 Fiat Panda where the crumple zone is your knee caps.


hno: or in other words the story when the government becomes asocial.


----------



## MichiH

Attus said:


> Penn's Woods said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any chance the Land of No Speed Limits would follow the Dutch example? Are there politicians urging it?
> 
> 
> 
> The Green Party initiated just a few weeks ago to introduce a speed limit of 130 km/h (~ 80 MPH). It was rejected by the federal parliament (Bundestag). According to public opinion researches a slight majority of the population supports the idea.
Click to expand...

More info: https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=163473870&postcount=11004


----------



## Kanadzie

NOx emissions is usually a diesel issue, because of the excess oxygen present during the combustion process, and the high localized temperatures due to the not-ideal mixing of the diesel fuel. Gasoline engine can produce as well but only as a byproduct of incomplete combustion and usually well-handled by three-way reduction/oxidation catalyst (diesel can't run reduction catalyst since there is too much O2 in the exhaust, you need to do something like add ammonia (AdBlue junk))

Diesel car should have greater increase in fuel consumption with speed than a petrol car, due to the lack of throttle restriction and consequent pumping losses (i.e. light-load diesel efficiency is more better typically)


----------



## Wapper

A reduction from 130 to 100 km/h is just too large. They should have opted for 120 or 110 to start with in order to make the adaption easier.


----------



## Slagathor

That's a very Belgian thing to say. 

A reduction to 120 or 110 wouldn't have had the desired effect on nitrogen emissions though. They'd all be driving more slowly but the construction projects would still be halted.


----------



## sponge_bob

Penn's Woods said:


> Or tie permitted speed to European environmental thresholds. Which I don’t know the details of but the sort of thing that prohibits you from entering certain city centers if your car was built before 20xx.


London charges you more if your car is older and you drive it in the center. 

There was an initial major quality shift in 2006 when Euro4 standards came in, one can have banned pre 2006 cars from the road when levels hit a certain point for example, it would be easy to enforce. That is a form of quick fix regulation. 

I also suspect that testing for Euro4 and Euro5 standards was carried out at 100kph and that there are no tests at 120kph and 130kph, this would have led the likes of VW to tune their engine fairly optimally up to 100kph and to let them rip after that. 

There was 'officially' a big change with Euro 6 (modern cars) but this was not evident at higher speed with enhanced testing. The best performers at higher speed all had additives like adblue instead of 'dry' converters.....but do you want your whole country to smell of piss?? 

https://theicct.org/publications/nox-control-technologies-euro-6-diesel-passenger-cars










Still I do remember the first thing you did when you were stuck behind a bus 20 years ago was get past it to avoid the diesel belch, nowadays you hardly notice being behind a bus or truck when it takes off.


----------



## MichiH

Wapper said:


> A reduction from 130 to 100 km/h is just too large. They should have opted for 120 or 110 to start with in order to make the adaption easier.


I like that it's a big change because people would not get used to small steps. It would always take long till the new limit is established.

This way, they can directly measure how much emissions will have changed. I hope that it's really as marginal as expected and then, they could just undo it. This way, the limit might be in force just for a few months or one year.

Is the new limit already in force or when should it become legal?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Slagathor said:


> A reduction to 120 or 110 wouldn't have had the desired effect on nitrogen emissions though. They'd all be driving more slowly but the construction projects would still be halted.


We (the politicians and journalists) got tricked in the idea that a speed limit reduction is the only way to get those construction projects moving.

However the annual reduction of NOx emissions in road traffic already has a greater effect on natura 2000 than this speed limit reduction.

This speed limit reduction will result in 1.6 mole / hectare / year according to RIVM. 

However the 2018 reduction in NOx emissions from road traffic was 5%. Out of a 6% traffic contribution to the nitrogen problem, this is a 0.3% overall decline of nitrogen. The average nitrogen deposition is ~1700 moles, so 0.3% of 1700 is 5.1 mole / hectare / year reduction. 

Here you can see the effect of the speed limit reduction on the nitrogen deposition:


----------



## MrAronymous

But Rutte convinced me this was necessary!


----------



## The Polwoman

The effect of this all is minimal because most of the time, traffic won't be able to drive 100kph anyways; at nighttime cars will still be allowed to drive 130kph. However, there are other side effects:
- the differences in speed are reduced, making rides more smooth which saves energy on itself.
- there's less need for people to look on the side of the road for what's the speed limit; in 98% of the cases, looking after your watch is sufficient between 6:00 and 19:00. Less speed limits is safer, though I'm not sure if this is the way.
- for the people who really only look on their apps: big chance that on Sunday afternoons he will suggest the train *slightly* more between cities than what is the case today. At the other side you may notice the difference in speed with "sunday drivers" is smaller :lol:

However, I think there's more to do. And yes I'm that kind of leftist person who thinks that beyond 2x3 lanes, while there are still just two (or for the matter, zero, A27) train tracks (I'm looking at you A2 Deil-Den Bosch!), it will only obstruct mitigating the effects on NOx and other nasty polluters locally while things could be different. The first road projects should be about safety and grade-separating for free flow (less brake/gas).

Yes, infrastructure isn't the worst polluter, there has to be taken even more action in the cattle industry, there is more action needed to bring down the NOx production from industrial areas... but no, that doesn't mean that we can head for unbridled US-style cartopia, just like we cannot keep saying that we're the most obedient child in the European green energy class while performing worse on green energy production per capita than all of the EU, the USA, China and Uganda.


----------



## Eurosnob

MrAronymous said:


> It should get a Vienna Convention symbol.


That's a great idea. I'd imagine a stylised compass would get the message across.


----------



## MrAronymous

A compass signifies direction. Uitgezonderd doesn't have to do anything with direction.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A12 Westervoort IJssel River Bridge*

The IJssel River Bridge of A12 at Westervoort consists of 3 spans.

There are two steel girder spans built in the early 1960s, these currently carry 2+2 lanes towards Germany. These opened in 1961 and 1964. A third 4-lane concrete box girder bridge opened in 1990. Capacity is 2+2+4 lanes since.

The steel spans are showing signs of fatigue. The oldest span was closed for a couple of days in September 2018 due to 'irregularities'. The bridge suffers from crack formation.

Earlier reports showed that the steel spans are among the most vulnerable of 15 steel bridges in the Netherlands that require renovation or replacement in the near future. They talked about complete replacement a while ago, but it appears that a renovation with a 30 year extension of its life is the preferred method now.

The renovation of the steel bridges is scheduled for 2022 onwards. However the steel spans have so much fatigue they need to be relieved. So from early 2020, they will close one span periodically at a time. 

From 2020-2022 there will be a permanent 'construction zone' configuration with a 5+2 system (5 narrowed lanes on the concrete span and 2 lanes on one of the steel spans). The speed limit will be 90 km/h.










First span under construction, circa 1960:









Concrete span under construction, 1989:


----------



## Penn's Woods

joshsam said:


> In Belgium you also have 'alle richtingen' but also 'uitgaand verkeer'. If it needs to be translated I wouldn't even know how they would do it. It means traffic leaving the city(center) and the plate usually directs you to the nearest road feeding into a beltway/ ringroad.




Do you know what they do for “uitgaand verkeer” in Wallonia?

(That’s an actual question, not a rhetorical one. I have no idea.)


----------



## Suburbanist

..


----------



## Spookvlieger

Penn's Woods said:


> Do you know what they do for “uitgaand verkeer” in Wallonia?
> 
> (That’s an actual question, not a rhetorical one. I have no idea.)


They don't use it. They use the same as in France "autres directions" (other destinations) or "toutes directions" (all destinations). In France you can even see many plates with both on them opposing eachother. I asked once and apparently 'autres' is used to guide you to small places within the city or just outside the city (probably a mayor road that cuts or leaves the city but will not get you out of the region without much driving around) while 'toutes' usually directs you to a highway to get to another city/region entirely. Still it's confusing and they do the same in Wallonia. Always follow "toutes directions" if you need to go to a highway :lol:


----------



## da_scotty

Eurosnob said:


> That's a great idea. I'd imagine a stylised compass would get the message across.



Maybe something like this to next to the text in each country.

_without the text "way out"_


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> Apparently it is now standard to have bilingual directional signage in case of 'through traffic' (doorgaand verkeer) or 'all directions' (alle richtingen). I haven't seen one myself yet, but they are popping up.


Do you where this picture is taken? It looks like Rotterdam but I can not place the location exactly. :dunno:


----------



## Pell0

It is behind the central station
streetview


----------



## Penn's Woods

joshsam said:


> They don't use it. They use the same as in France "autres directions" (other destinations) or "toutes directions" (all destinations). In France you can even see many plates with both on them opposing eachother. I asked once and apparently 'autres' is used to guide you to small places within the city or just outside the city (probably a mayor road that cuts or leaves the city but will not get you out of the region without much driving around) while 'toutes' usually directs you to a highway to get to another city/region entirely. Still it's confusing and they do the same in Wallonia. Always follow "toutes directions" if you need to go to a highway :lol:




Color-coding’s relevant in France. Maybe “toutes directions” on a green background means all destinations reachable by Route nationale, or something.


----------



## Penn's Woods

da_scotty said:


> Maybe something like this to next to the text in each country.
> 
> 
> 
> _without the text "way out"_



Just add, inside the box, the little skyline icon that appears at the entry to built-up areas.


----------



## Slagathor

Eurosnob said:


> I don't want to spoil the party but shouldn't it be "ANY DIRECTION" rather than "ALL DIRECTIONS"? I'd love to hear the opinion of native English speakers.


If you want to use "any" then it should be "Any other direction" but even in that context, "All other directions" feels a lot more natural to me.



Penn's Woods said:


> I prefer “ALL...”. *Can’t put my finger on why, though.* We really don’t use either one in the U.S., where directional signage favors route numbers over destinations. The closest you get is THROUGH (or THRU) TRAFFIC.


Probably because of the grammatical rule of thumb that you're supposed to use "some" with affirmative phrases and "any" with negatives and questions. E.g.:

- Do you have _any_thing to do?
- No, I don't have _any_thing to do. 
- I'll give you _some_thing to do, then.

This rule isn't 100%, note my earlier example of "any other" in an affirmative sentence. Most native speakers do sense this difference between "some" and "any", although sometimes the line is very blurred (as with uncountable nouns):

- Do you want any water?
- Do you want some water?


----------



## Penn's Woods

Slagathor said:


> If you want to use "any" then it should be "Any other direction" but even in that context, "All other directions" feels a lot more natural to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably because of the grammatical rule of thumb that you're supposed to use "some" with affirmative phrases and "any" with negatives and questions. E.g.:
> 
> 
> 
> - Do you have _any_thing to do?
> 
> - No, I don't have _any_thing to do.
> 
> - I'll give you _some_thing to do, then.
> 
> 
> 
> This rule isn't 100%, note my earlier example of "any other" in an affirmative sentence. Most native speakers do sense this difference between "some" and "any", although sometimes the line is very blurred (as with uncountable nouns):
> 
> 
> 
> - Do you want any water?
> 
> - Do you want some water?




Another one of those rules natives never actually learn, just pick up.


----------



## MichiH

I've seen 'All destinations' in the UK today. Cannot find it on GSV though 

Germany uses 'Alle Richtungen' (= all directions) like the Netherlands and France.


----------



## da_scotty

The PFAS norm which grounded a lot of construction has been reduced from 0.1 microgram per kg too 0.8 microgram per kg.

This will mean a lot of ground moving can continue, with the 0,1microgram norm 85% of the ground moved would be above the norm and so couldn't be moved easily and had to be disposed of.

[source is NOS, dutch national news]
[https://nos.nl/artikel/2312438-pfas-norm-fors-verhoogd-oplossing-voor-veel-bouwprojecten.html]


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It was even fact-checked that PFAS values in human blood are considerably higher than the 0.1 microgram limit for soil (according to _De Volkskrant_ it is 14 - 68 times higher).

The criticism is that they established a limit that was 1) unrealistic and 2) lacked scientific grounds, without thinking over the consequences.

I don't know what the government is doing, but they don't seem to have any vision or idea how to tackle problems that come their way, just like the nitrogen 'crisis'.


----------



## Suburbanist

Well, since 2012 or so some scientifical advisory groups had been demoted, disbanded or sidestepped.


----------



## Stuu

MichiH said:


> I've seen 'All destinations' in the UK today. Cannot find it on GSV though
> 
> Germany uses 'Alle Richtungen' (= all directions) like the Netherlands and France.


The UK also uses 'Through Traffic', although both examples are not very widespread or consistent; they are nothing like as frequent as 'Toutes directions' is in France


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*2019*

No motorways have opened to traffic in 2019. Here's the development of the motorway length:










2019 is the third year in a row with 0 kilometers of new motorway


----------



## Penn's Woods

Are there any obvious missing links...places where there ought to be something? I realize that’s a very broad question.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A number of missing links were completed in the past 10 years. So the situation has improved substantially. 

I think you can make a distinction between short missing links and corridors that should be / or were planned to be upgraded to a motorway. 

For example the A4 extension south of Rotterdam, the A15 extension to Zevenaar and the A8 extension near Westzaan are considered missing links. 

Many routes that used to be planned as motorways have been downscaled, such as N35 Zwolle - Wierden, N18 Varsseveld - Enschede, N50 Hattem - Emmeloord and N69 Eindhoven - Belgium.

There are also new routes to be developed, but unlikely as a motorway, such as the eastern portion of the ring road of Eindhoven or new roads in the Haarlemmermeer area.


----------



## da_scotty

How would this look if you consider the new 2x2 _autowegen_ in this number? Because I have the feeling a lot of N-roads where upgraded to conflict free dual carriageways in the last years. Not really motorways, but a big improvement locally.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I was driving in Zwolle today and there was quite dense fog (visibility about 100 meters). It was astounding how many people drove without their lights on, or only with daytime running lights (which don't active the rear lights). It was around 70-80%, in fact most people with their headlights on were older cars that don't have an 'auto' function or DRL. Even high-tech cars like Teslas didn't have their lights on. 

I think this shows that partial automation in cars isn't necessarily a good thing. People quickly become complacent and trust their car will make the right decisions, without understanding the limitations of driver assistance.

In fact there was a study about advanced driver-assistance systems (ADAS) this week that showed that motorists have a clear lack of understanding how these systems work and what their limitations are.


----------



## MichiH

Stuu said:


> The UK also uses 'Through Traffic', although both examples are not very widespread or consistent; they are nothing like as frequent as 'Toutes directions' is in France


'All routes' is also used in UK which might be the best (and shortest) solution. And if one route is specified, I've also seen 'Other traffics'.


----------



## luchtkasteel

Though the N65 between Tilburg and 's-Hertogenbosch is an existing non motorway link, it's definitely a missing link in the motorway system.


----------



## luchtkasteel

edit


----------



## da_scotty

luchtkasteel said:


> Though the N65 between Tilburg and 's-Hertogenbosch is an existing non motorway link, it's definitely a missing link in the motorway system.


They are going to improve a little bit around Vught. This in line with the quadruppling, tunneling and freeflowing of the Den Bosch-Tilburg and Den Bosch-Eindhoven railway lines.

The road will also get some freeflow sections, but nothing major and not to motorway standard.
Current plans:

Junction at Helvoirt.
Junction at Vught ( John F. Kennedylaan)
Bridge at Vught (Martinilaan)
Parallel roads for slow trafic, no more slow trafic interchanges/house or farm entrances)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The speed limit reduction to 100 km/h on motorways - between 6-19hrs - is scheduled to take effect on 16 March 2020. 

The speed limit reduction was considered necessary to unlock the legal deadlock regarding nitrogen deposition. 

The speed limit reduction will reduce nitrogen by an average of 1.6 moles. This is an approximate 0.07 - 0.09% reduction of nitrogen levels in natura 2000. The ecological benefit of this nitrogen level reduction is non-existent, but all construction projects that add minuscule levels of nitrogen were put on hold.


----------



## Rover030

Is it known what the new signs will look like? This one wouldn't work because a road could be 120 or 130 at night:










Will they flip it around so that 100 becomes the base maximum speed with signs saying 120/130 between 19 and 6? That would be unusual for Europe right?


----------



## EPA001

^^ The new traffic signs are being produced as we speak!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Signs like that are produced on a continuous basis. There are an estimated 3 million traffic signs in the Netherlands, with an average life-span of 20 years, almost 3,000 need to be produced every week.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Could they do them electronically? The New Jersey Turnpike has had some changeable speed-limit signs for decades.


----------



## da_scotty

There was talk of using the overhead speed limit signs on a permanent bases, instead of only using them in case of a traffic jam/roadworks. Would be smart in my opinion. Especially since some areas have a high amount of changing limits in a short space of road, which again varies during the day.


----------



## Rover030

Penn's Woods said:


> Could they do them electronically? The New Jersey Turnpike has had some changeable speed-limit signs for decades.


In denser areas there are gantries with information screens for each lane every few hundred meters, but I've only seen them indicate 90, 70 or 50 if there is heavy traffic, and 80 on ring roads like here to remind people of the low speed limit. They also show lane closures etc.

I don't know what the reason is that regular speed limits aren't displayed on them though, it seems kind of logical to do that.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Not that many motorway sections have variable speed limits until this speed limit reduction will be implemented next year. The 'confusing' variable speed limits are exaggerated in the media, there are only 7 segments with a variable speed limit, this constitutes less than 4% of the motorway network.

The motorway traffic management system was not designed with permanent speed limit display in mind, most can display only speeds up to 90 km/h. While it may sound logical now, these were designed to warn motorists of abnormal situations like lane closures, congestion and road works. Their purpose was to secure the tail of traffic jams and not have traffic plowing into it. They lose their attention value if turned on 24/7. 

This is also an issue when lanes are closed with a :redx: while nothing is happening, and leads to more negation of closed lanes.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ for changeable speed signs, I've seen many in Germany that are mechanical
usually I see them showing the correct sign


----------



## Spookvlieger

Mechanical doesn't mean they can't be computer controlled.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Mechanical signs (or 'rotational signs') do exist in the Netherlands, mostly in case of rush hour shoulder usage, both for lane indication, speed limits and sometimes entire directional signage on gantries. However they are considered unreliable and malfunction often.

For example:

A28 Zwolle shoulder running-2 by European Roads, on Flickr


IMG 048 by European Roads, on Flickr


IMG_3003 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> Signs like that are produced on a continuous basis. There are an estimated 3 million traffic signs in the Netherlands, with an average life-span of 20 years, almost 3,000 need to be produced every week.


That number is quite incredible. The company where I work is providing some of these signs for the Dutch roads.


----------



## Suburbanist

3 million road signs is 1 for every 6 people, roughly.


----------



## Theijs

ChrisZwolle said:


> The preferred alternative for A4 between the Burgerveen interchange (A44) and Leidschendam interchange (N14) includes a widening of A4 to 8 - 10 lanes throughout the corridor, with mostly 2x5 lanes and a 2+3+3+2 local/express system at Leiden. The northernmost segment will feature 2x4 lanes.


What I miss in this proposal is the inclusion of the intersection 'Hofvliet' with the N434 (RijnlandRoute), currently U/C. This should be ready by summer 2021.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Big traffic volumes on A1 right now


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Apeldoorn - Hengelo*

A1 is being widened in Eastern Netherlands. The Deventer - Azelo segment is being widened to 2x3 lanes, they do this in sections.

The first sections are now completed, after a good 8 months of work. Construction on these segments started in mid-March 2019. I'm not sure when they will open the third lane.

1. Deventer - Bathmen.

A1 Oxersteeg 25-12-2019 02 by European Roads, on Flickr

2. At Bathmen.

A1 aansluiting Bathmen 25-12-2019 01 by European Roads, on Flickr

3. 

A1 aansluiting Bathmen 25-12-2019 03 by European Roads, on Flickr

4. At Rijssen.

A1 Borkeldweg 25-12-2019 01 by European Roads, on Flickr

5. 

A1 Borkeldweg 25-12-2019 03 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ChrisZwolle said:


> The construction of the A15 motorway extension from the Ressen interchange to A12 at Zevenaar has been provisionally awarded to a consortium known as 'GelreGroen'.


The awarding of the contract has become definitive on 24 December. 

Actual construction begins in late 2020, though a lot of preliminary work is already underway. The project is scheduled to be completed in late 2024.

It's still kind of odd that we haven't seen a design for the Rhine River Crossing. The design was left open for the contractor to work out, so it can be anything from an arch bridge, box girder bridge or cable-stayed bridge. It is stated though, that the bridge will have a 'circa 200 meter' main span. No box girder bridge with a 200 meter main span has ever been built in the Netherlands. It's not impossible though. 

The plan approval order only has the motorway running there.


----------



## MattiG

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's still kind of odd that we haven't seen a design for the Rhine River Crossing. The design was left open for the contractor to work out, so it can be anything from an arch bridge, box girder bridge or cable-stayed bridge.


So, who is normally responsible for the design in the Netherlands?

The almost default mode of operation for the large projects in Finland is ST, i.e. Design & Build. Thus, the contractor creates the detailed plans based on the General Plan and the Road Plan done at the client side. (The national agency and the regional agencies are the clients.)

Of course, there might be binding statements in the bid, like a declaration of bridge types, their vertical clearances, etc.

The Design & Build model is being developed to the Develop, Design & Build model. In such a model, the contractor is able to propose changes to the Road Plan, and the benefits are shared between the client and the contractor.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It was considered worthwhile to leave the exact bridge type open so contractors could bid with their favorable bridge design. So it could be a box-girder, cable-stayed, extradosed or arch bridge (suspension bridge being unlikely). The main span will be at least 200 meters.

I believe this is the first time that such a major bridge has been left to the contractor. This is not uncommon for small bridges (overpasses, bike bridges, etc.)

Most major motorway contracts in the Netherlands have been Design & Construct, or a PPP (design, build, finance, maintain), though it is said that the A15 extension will be the last DBFM in the Netherlands due to a lack of bidders. These long-term contracts are considered too risky for developers. This problem arised in the early 2010s when a lot of contractors / consortia made low bids during the recession to keep their order books filled. When the economy grew and prices went up, their bid became financially unsustainable. I believe Ballast-Nedam went into the red for several hundred million euros on the A15 expansion in Rotterdam.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Dense fog is developing very rapidly in the Netherlands this evening, I can't see most of the street lights from my apartment anymore, I've never seen that in the 11 years of living here. You look out of the window and you see black instead of a street light scene. 

The fog is low to the ground though, because you can see the moon but less than 50 meters horizontally.

There are reports of serious accidents on the motorways. There are reports of a serious crash on A32 with 5 meters of visibility.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Visibility in meters at 8 p.m. 

Such dense fog hasn't occurred for years in the Netherlands, at least so widespread.










Google Maps detects slow or stationary traffic on motorways, the situation in urban areas is even worse, there are reports of people walking out in front of the car to find the way.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Wow, they issued a code red (weather alarm) for the dense fog. Code red is very rare in the Netherlands, it is typically issued only one or two times per year and some years not at all. 

But having it issued for fog is even more unusual, I don't think there has ever been issued a code red for fog, even a code orange for fog earlier this evening may have been the first time ever. 

The code red is issued for visibility under 10 meters, in particular in the north and northeast of the country.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> Wow, they issued a code red (weather alarm) for the dense fog. Code red is very rare in the Netherlands, it is typically issued only one or two times per year and some years not at all.
> 
> But having it issued for fog is even more unusual, I don't think there has ever been issued a code red for fog, even a code orange for fog earlier this evening may have been the first time ever.
> 
> The code red is issued for visibility under 10 meters, in particular in the north and northeast of the country.




What’s causing this? Is it unusually warm?

And happy new year.


----------



## da_scotty

It's very humid and cold, and no wind. With a quick drop of temperature when it turns dark.


----------



## Ni3lS

Very strange conditions yesterday indeed. There were some serious accidents that involved up to 40 cars on some highways: https://nos.nl/artikel/2316913-oud-...or-mist-hulpdiensten-her-en-der-bekogeld.html


----------



## BigMike90

*Yearly congestion figures now available.*

https://www.anwb.nl/verkeer/nieuws/nederland/2019/december/knelpunten-2019
17% more traffic jams in 2019.

top 10.









Remarkably how that A1 is developing between Apeldoorn - Amersfoort, its partly new in the list. Its a 2x2 with more traffic flow coming from the east as Apeldoorn-Azelo is becoming 2x4 between Apeldoorn-Deventer and 2x3 between Deventer-Azelo. With the first stretch opening this year. 

Its a nightmare road, becoming even worse.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The ANWB figures are disputed for statistical accuracy though, as they report wildly higher congestion growth than Rijkswaterstaat does.

For example, Rijkswaterstaat reported a 2.2% growth in 2018 and 2.8% in 2019 up to August, while ANWB posted 20 and 17% respectively. 

ANWB also doesn't provide any more data than just a few numbers. They use floating car data from TomTom, which are good for travel time calculations but not as good for historical statistics. ANWB also includes N-roads where Rijkswaterstaat includes A-roads and only a few N-roads, though this doesn't explain why ANWB has figures that are as much as 10 times higher.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Diffractors*

Diffractors are an experimental noise reduction scheme in the Netherlands. I've first read about it in 2012. The idea is that it diffracts noise by redirecting the soundwaves, it is said to reduce noise levels by 2 or 3 dB. They are much cheaper than porous pavement and may eliminate the need for noise barriers. 


Een rits aan diffractoren by Rotterdamsebaan, on Flickr


Diffractoren langs de weg in de Vlietzoom by Rotterdamsebaan, on Flickr


Diffractoren langs de weg by Rotterdamsebaan, on Flickr


----------



## Wilhem275

All efforts about noise reduction are aimed at the infra. I wonder if there's any country addressing the issue on vehicles, since things are getting out of hand on that side.

Heavier cars, extra wide tyres...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Electric cars produce no engine noise, though at speeds over 50 km/h, rolling and wind noise becomes dominant, so electric cars aren't really quieter at highway speeds. 

Recently I've read an article about A10 in Amsterdam, someone living there said the noise barrier could be removed in the future because of electric cars. Unfortunately that won't be the case. 

But this diffractor is interesting, because 2-3 dB is also what can be achieved with porous asphalt, yet at a much lower cost. The combination of porous asphalt + diffractors means that they can potentially eliminate the need for noise barriers in some locations.


----------



## Suburbanist

porous aslpaht helps with drainage under rain, doesn't it?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes indeed. That’s why almost the entire motorway network has porous asphalt. It significantly reduces splash, thus reducing congestion. Still, rainy workdays are guaranteed to have much more congestion.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A motion was approved by parliament to use the motorway traffic management (MTM) system to permanently show speed limits.

The minister has made an inventarisation and this shows that this is not feasible. First, only a third of the main road network (approximately half of all motorways) have MTM systems in the first place.

There are several generations of MTM in use, and only 15% of the matrix signs is capable of showing any speed while 36% cannot show speeds higher than 90 km/h.

The system was designed to bring attention to unusual traffic situations, in particular lane closures and reduction of crashes at the tail end of the traffic jam. It was not designed to show the speed limit permanently, as this would greatly reduce the attention value of the system.

So the MTM system will not be used to display speed limits 24/7.


A12 Bunnik by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## EtienneM

Three speed limits for the motorways in the Netherlands in one picture.

Snelheidsverlaging Grens by Etienne M, on Flickr


----------



## spoortje nijverdal

Bender said:


> I drove in the Netherlands today. Empty roads and 100km/h - what a soul-crushing experience.


What about the horrible roads and bridges in Germany? 
Road works last longer than 5 years !!!
No street lights on the country side....
Overhead powerlines.....🤐🤐


----------



## Wilhem275

:hmm:


----------



## Bender

spoortje nijverdal said:


> What about the horrible roads and bridges in Germany?
> Road works last longer than 5 years !!!
> No street lights on the country side....
> Overhead powerlines.....🤐🤐


I am not sure I understand the connection between the two, nevertheless I too hate the inefficiency of road works in Germany. Maybe more than you do.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A10 in Amsterdam this morning at 8 a.m. Normally it would be packed.


  by R. Wegen, on Flickr


----------



## MrAronymous

Weird that they still opened up the extra lane then.


----------



## Penn's Woods

EtienneM said:


> Three speed limits for the motorways in the Netherlands in one picture.
> 
> Snelheidsverlaging Grens by Etienne M, on Flickr




So is the 130 on the border sign just wrong (or out of date), or does that still apply in some places?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

130 km/h remains the default motorway speed limit in the Netherlands. It applied to approximately two-thirds of the motorway system.

However some 120 sections were not raised to 130 for bureaucratic reasons. 

With the speed limit now being 100 km/h between 6-19h, the old speed limit applies from 19-6h, which can either be 120 or the default speed limit of 130 km/h.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A sign instructing cyclists to make eye contact with truck drivers.


N306 Drontermeerdijk 02 by European Roads, on Flickr

It's interesting how they communicate road numbers that are signed nowhere. In the Netherlands, N-numbers over 400 are rarely indicated on the directional signage. The signage on hectometer posts is increasingly well posted, but for example on N719 the only indication is a tiny sticker on reflector posts (which will be improved with this project). Probably almost nobody knows where N719 is.

N719 Leemringweg 01 by European Roads, on Flickr

'soft shoulder'. Provinces increasingly use 'grass-concrete tiles' along the pavement to improve the carrying capacity of shoulders. This prevents vehicles from becoming uncontrollable if they inadvertently run off the pavement.

N351 Kuinre 01 by European Roads, on Flickr

Overijssel style hectometer marker & wooden guardrails.

N351 Kuinre 03 by European Roads, on Flickr

Glass reflectors. Overijssel uses them in the center, Flevoland also uses them on the rumble strips on the road edge. It's a relatively new implementation, similar to cat's eyes. If done properly, they could replace reflector posts which are in the way of mowing and get run over all the time. This reduces cost.

N351 Kuinre 08 by European Roads, on Flickr

A speed limit 'totem pole'.

100-120 kmh A28 Wezep 01 by European Roads, on Flickr

A traffic sign from the 1966 catalogue. This used to be N32, a major road from Meppel to Leeuwarden. It has been bypassed by A32 in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

N761 Witte Paarden by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## aswnl

^^
That last one is really old...


----------



## Suburbanist

Does anybody has a copy of this "Plan Joniken" for road infrastructure in Amsterdam?


----------



## Koesj

@Suburbanist yeah I would /love/ to see some of that stuff on paper. I guess "Geef de stad een kans" is available in the usual places but they're not exactly open for business right now. Plus, I haven't seen an UB from the inside for many a year now ^^


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This is what the medium lockdown looks like in the Netherlands. Few cars, but a massive amount of truck traffic, the tangible economy is still rolling ahead it seems.


A1 Beusebergerweg 25-03-2020 05 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ChrisZwolle said:


> *A10 Amsterdam*
> 
> The 'Zuidasdok' project of A10 in Amsterdam appears to be heading to a major redesign or even cancellation.
> 
> The € 1.6 billion project has already been awarded and is in the design phase. The contractor has problems coming up with an acceptable design and it is already delayed.
> 
> The project included a 12 lane tunnel of A10, a redesign of two motorway interchanges and the expansion of the Amsterdam Zuid railway station. It has long been criticized that only half the original project would cost a lot and has limited benefit. The original, € 3+ billion plan was to put both the motorway and railway underground. The current plan only puts the motorway underground, which replaces a motorway with an expansive rail yard. The project is seen as a major prestige and is bound for extensive cost overruns and long-term disruption of the area.
> 
> It has also been criticized whether a growth of traffic to 300,000+ vehicles per day should be accommodated at all, and if large-scale development of office space at such a location is a good idea given the constraints of the transportation systems. Some experts also fear that tunnel traffic metering will create extensive additional traffic congestion in the area, similar to other tunnels. Given the proximity of the tunnel to other motorways, this could significantly impact the regional network. 10 to 15 kilometer backups are regularly recorded at the tunnels of A2 and A4.
> 
> The minister has published a letter to parliament, in which she said that mediation between the government and the contractor will be initiated, but also that a new study will be done for the purpose and need of the project, including possible downscaling of the project. Most people read this as a possibility that the entire project will be redesigned / downscaled.
> 
> A render of the plan:


The results of the study about whether or not to reconsider the A10 'Zuidasdok' project in Amsterdam have been published.

The project will proceed as planned, with a tunnel for A10 and the expanded railway station. There are no realistic options to save money by downscaling portions of the project. This means there is a staggering € 700 million - € 1 billion shortfall (on a € 1.6 billion budget!) The government is willing to seek funding to address this budget shortfall.

However the contractor 'ZuidPlus' says it cannot pursue this project under the contracted terms. The contract will be ended. About € 300 million out of the original € 1.6 billion project have already been spent.

The project will now not be awarded as a single contract, but in separate stages. There is urgency to proceed with the project given the already occurring capacity problems on A10 and the railway station.

The original completion date for the project was 2028. As this will now be built in stages, it is expected that the final stages won't be completed until 2032-2036. It is a very complex project in tight quarters. However the lack of changes to the overall design probably means there won't need to be an extensive re-approval process for the project.


----------



## Slagathor

This is such a bad idea, just scrap it already.

If you're gonna leave the railway station above ground, it's not worth the (frigging HUGE) investment.


----------



## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> This is what the medium lockdown looks like in the Netherlands. Few cars, but a massive amount of truck traffic, the tangible economy is still rolling ahead it seems.
> 
> 
> A1 Beusebergerweg 25-03-2020 05 by European Roads, on Flickr


Gotta restock all that toiletpaper


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Slagathor said:


> If you're gonna leave the railway station above ground, it's not worth the (frigging HUGE) investment.


Imagine the optics of this project in the rest of the Netherlands. There is a potential € 1 billion shortfall, which they want to meet. Yet all across the country projects get delayed for years because they can't find funding in the range of € 5 - 50 million. The N50 widening at Kampen is now delayed by 4-5 years because of a € 5 million (!) shortfall. This single project could fund the wishlist for almost any project outside of the Randstad region...

The 'per kilometer' cost of the Zuidasdok project is similar to the 50 kilometer widening of A1 to Hengelo that's currently in progress...

I'm aware that many road enthusiasts are also not very enthusiastic about this project. Tunnel metering (similar to Leidsche Rijn Tunnel or Kethel Tunnel) would almost immediately gridlock the A10/A4 and A10/A2 interchanges.

A cheaper solution could be to build a 6 lane eastbound viaduct closer to the office buildings to make space for the expanded railway station. The viaduct wouldn't be any more elevated than the current embankment of A10 is.


----------



## Slagathor

You're right: it's completely ridiculous how much they're willing to spend on the Randstad (especially Amsterdam, like the Noord-Zuidlijn while The Hague can't even get a 2nd short tram tunnel) while telling the rest of the country "there isn't any money" for their projects.

And there's also a sense that the Amsterdammers can never be inconvenienced. If this project were somewhere else, they would just close the entire section for a shorter and cheaper construction period and tell everyone to take the A9 for a year and half instead. But because it's Amsterdam, they've gotta go out of their way to keep everything open and operational during construction, which is complicated and expensive.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Leeghwater Bridge of N242 at Alkmaar will finally reopen to full capacity on Monday. 

The bridge consists of two bascule bridges, originally built in 1952 and 1976. The 1952 bridge has been entirely replaced and the 1976 one was renovated. The replacement began in late 2017 and was originally scheduled to be completed in 1 year: by September 2018. However a dispute over the design caused the works to remain dormant for almost half a year, with a new opening date in August 2019. However this was not met either, with a full opening now on 30 March 2020.

This is one of the busiest N-roads in the Netherlands with 62,000 vehicles per day. The construction works meant that capacity had to be reduced to two extremely narrow lanes in each direction, which put N242 at the #1 congestion spot of N-roads in 2018 and 2019. Even nearby A9 south of Alkmaar was propelled into the traffic jam top 50 due to the construction works.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A house next to A1 near Holten. The motorway opened in 1972. The environmental laws says that they are not required to put up noise barriers until there is a reconstruction of the road, otherwise it's on a voluntary basis but they usually don't do that to avoid imbalance among residents (one gets a noise barrier but the other don't). Sometimes residents don't even want a noise barrier, though in case like this where the motorway is widened a noise barrier may be unavoidable. 

So this house finally got a noise barrier. You wonder how these people lived there for 48 years. In particular since the 1990s when truck traffic hugely increased on this corridor with the opening up of Germany and Eastern Europe. There is constant loud noise at a location like this. This has already been reduced with porous asphalt instead of dense asphalt, but still, this is very close to the motorway.


A1 Langstraat 25-03-2020 04 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## Slagathor

MrAronymous said:


> Oh there's plenty of speed bumps designed above the speed limit.


You mean _below_, surely?

A speed bump designed _above_ the speed limit is... just a road.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The ventilation shafts of the Velsen Tunnel (A22). 

The tunnel was built between 1952 and 1957, as one of the first major post-war motorway projects. These ventilation shafts are a national monument.


Ventilatietorens zuidzijde Velsertunnel by R. Wegen, on Flickr


----------



## Suburbanist

Have they solved the problems of excess sand accumulation on N307 near the new Marken Islets complex?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> Have they solved the problems of excess sand accumulation on N307 near the new Marken Islets complex?


Yes that was fixed in October 2019. They had a record amount of windy days with the 'storm protocol' being activated and the sand issue did not presented itself again. So it looks solid.



A28 runs across the 'Veluwe', a heavily wooded area in Gelderland province. There are also trees in the median, something you don't see much in the Netherlands (or most of Europe for that matter).
The lack of traffic allowed me to make a lateral panorama of the motorway, which normally would result in a lot of distorted vehicles. 


A28 Nunspeet - Harderwijk 05 by European Roads, on Flickr


A28 Nunspeet - Harderwijk 07 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## CborG

2 pics I took of the A15 south of Rotterdam last monday. Slightly less traffic but still business as usual.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A1 west of Amersfoort. Before & after doubling the capacity.


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## Suburbanist

How long are the new eastbound merging lanes now?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The effect of the coronavirus on traffic volumes in the Netherlands;

Traffic evolution in March 2020:

main roads: -39%
secondary roads: -32%
truck traffic: -7%

If current measures remain in place for 3 months, a 10% decline in traffic over 2020 is projected. If it is 6 months, the decline will be 20%. If it is 12 months, it will be 33%. It depends on how deep the recession will be to see long-term traffic volumes go back up to 2019 levels, possibly not until 2025 if there will be a long recovery.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The number of traffic deaths in 2019 was 661, which is 2.5% lower than 2018. However there was a rather unusual trend. The number of deaths declined in all age groups, except for 20-40 where it increased by a rather staggering 24%. 

I'm willing to argue that nitrous oxide consumption may have to do with this. This wasn't really a thing until 2019, when we were flooded with news from crashes and arrests with vehicles loaded with used balloons, mostly with drivers in that age group. It became quite rampant but the government is now cracking down on this.

Traffic deaths by age group:









Deaths by province:









Deaths by province, per 1 billion vehicle kilometers.









As you can see Southern Netherlands has a rather poor safety record compared to most of the country. Especially considering that Brabant and Limburg have a high motorway density, and motorways are statistically the safest roads. The other high ranking provinces is correlated with a higher share of traffic on rural two-lane roads (fewer motorways). On the other hand Zeeland province is an outlier in this argument.


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## Slagathor

Having grown up in Zeeland (Walcheren peninsula), I'm gonna say the local circumstances are quite specific.

The landscape is extremely rural by Dutch standards. Disregarding the N-roads, a lot of people have little roads like this one in their daily commutes and you have no choice on those roads: you gotta be careful. Those roads are two-way streets (believe it or not) and you can run into anything there: tractors, cyclists, motorbikes... The same applies to the slightly larger local roads like this one where the maximum speed is entirely theoretical.

All those roads also feature "mud season" when tractors leave behind a ton a dirt that's often extremely slippery. Every local knows to take it easy on the throttle when they see these signs by the side of the road ("slik" is the word for "mud" in the local dialect).

And then there's the weather. Zeeland is even windier than the rest of the country. I have not-so-fond memories of doing 15km/h on a local road on top of a **** (they're always _on top_ of a ****, a great way to catch the winds) and worrying my little Citroen was about to be blown off into the adjacent field 2 meters below.

The only thing worse than the wind, is the sea mist. It comes on very sudden and it's thick. It's like driving around in steamed milk.

So drivers from Zeeland are usually very disciplined. We often start driving way before the legal age (you have to, there's no public transportation anywhere worth mentioning) and our driving instructors make sure you realize what all the dangers are. Mine once made me do a hill-start on a country road covered in _slik_. It didn't go so well.


----------



## Suburbanist

Speaking of Zeeland, what happened to those ideas of splitting the province between Zuid Holland and Noord Brabant? Have they ever followed up on the idea, although I reckon it didn't reach the point of preparation as it had on the annexation of Flevoland to Noord Holland?


----------



## Slagathor

I don't even know which 'plan' you're referring to and I used to work for the provincial government of Zeeland...

Whatever it was, it can't have been serious.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The draft plans for the N307 bridge crossing between Flevoland and Overijssel provinces has been published.

The current drawbridge spans the Roggebot, a sluice near Kampen. It is a road and water bottleneck. The sluice has been moved farther south, so the bridge will be replaced by a higher bascule bridge with a sailing clearance of 7 meters. 

Construction is scheduled to begin in late 2020.


----------



## Wilhem275

What's the point of that oval roundabout?


----------



## Suburbanist

Wilhem275 said:


> What's the point of that oval roundabout?


To prevent low-angle entry and exit, and force traffic from both sides (which are offset) to necessarily slow down when entering the roundabout, and prevent cars accelerating on the curve to 'escape' into an exit.

Sometimes that is solver with a sharp turn near the intersection point (road X roundabout), but due to space that is not feasible there.


----------



## Wilhem275

No no, I mean: why a roundabout at all? There's no intersection there.


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## ChrisZwolle

There is a bus stop on the on-ramp. For the bus to be able to stop there, it needs to turn around on that roundabout.


----------



## Wilhem275

Wow, that's a bit on an overkill.

If the bus route is just along the main road, they could easily add a small arch connecting ramps.











Different story if buses also have to get out of N307.


----------



## MrAronymous

How is it overkill? It's just an extra roundabout. Compared to your sketch which proposes a short extra on ramp with a nasty angle which is very bad for traffic safety, also conidering buses might not speed up fast enough _and_ you're proposing extra pedestrian and cycle infrastructure (tunnel because that road people will use as an on ramp no matter if the signs say 50km/h) to that socially unsafe (because isolated in a triangle of highway roads) bus stop. That's why they leave the planning to experts and not foreign forum users.

That said, this whole interchange of course does take more space than it needs to. It should've been solved by two roundabouts on both sides of the viaduct and a small cycling bridge over them so cycling infrastructure in this entire intersection wouldn't need to cross any road. Then the land could be used more useful (even a connected green area is better than all those many small green areas betwee noisy busy roads).


----------



## g.spinoza

MrAronymous said:


> How is it overkill? It's just an extra roundabout. Compared to your sketch which proposes a short extra on ramp with a nasty angle


Nasty angle? It's straight.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It looks like you grew up with the movie Speed as well


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Final paving works are ongoing to open the Gaasperdam Tunnel of A9 in Amsterdam in the coming weeks.


----------



## CborG

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Dutch term for this is a '_rimpelbuisobstakelbeveiliger', _or RIMOB. I can assure you that very few people know what that is.


Well, the word itself describes perfectly what is does; 'Wrinkling Tube Obstacle Protector' 

It's not really a tube, though.


----------



## EtienneM

The 'Victory Boogie Woogie Tunnel', part of the 'Rotterdamsebaan' in The Hague, is starting to get shape. This is one of the tunnel entrances, which has solar panels on the roof to power the service buildings and avoid drivers from getting blinded by the sunlight. 










Source: BAM Infra Nederland posted on LinkedIn


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The four lane expansion of N381 between Donkerbroek and Oosterwolde in Friesland province is scheduled to be completed on 11 May 2020. There will be a weekend closure from 7-11 May and the road will then reopen as a four lane expressway. Thew new four lane expansion is approximately 7 kilometers long. 

This section of the road was originally built in 2015 as a two-lane segment of the larger Drachten - Appelscha upgrade. The four lanes ended at Donkerbroek at that time, but a coalition agreement in 2015 included funding for a further widening of the road to four lanes, which is now complete.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1253740606008053760


----------



## ChrisZwolle

N366 has been widened to a four lane expressway between Veendam and Nieuwe Pekela in Groningen province last year. It was completed late November. I took some pictures today.

The location: OpenStreetMap


N366 Pekela&#x27;s - Veendam 01 by European Roads, on Flickr


N366 Pekela&#x27;s - Veendam 03 by European Roads, on Flickr


N366 Pekela&#x27;s - Veendam 04 by European Roads, on Flickr


N366 Pekela&#x27;s - Veendam 05 by European Roads, on Flickr


N366 Pekela&#x27;s - Veendam 07 by European Roads, on Flickr


N366 Pekela&#x27;s - Veendam 09 by European Roads, on Flickr


N366 Pekela&#x27;s - Veendam 11 by European Roads, on Flickr


N366 Pekela&#x27;s - Veendam 14 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## MrAronymous

Pekela's is such a weird thing to put on the signs. I mean it makes sense but it's certainly out of the ordinary. Because by that they mean Pekelaas (apostrophes are used in plurals in dutch. Piano's simply means pianoos or pianos in English). And by Pekela's they mean Oude Pekela and Nieuwe Pekela.


----------



## Coccodrillo

The Gaasperdammertunnel seems to have an intermediate exit, weren't they forbidden in tunnels in NL?



https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=51c1d215-5acb-4f8f-9b86-cd3ffaa5ccb6&cp=52.307815~4.969693&lvl=18&style=h&imgid=ec0d217a-8971-480e-a75e-0b5511512c3a&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Exits are not forbidden in Dutch tunnels, but lane reductions are. A split where one or more lanes branch off to an exit is fine. In this case, the left lane of the collector lanes in both direction splits off in the tunnel, but there is no lane reduction. 

However in reality it is quite complex to design a tunnel with exits and entrances where no lane reductions can occur within or just after the tunnel.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Hoogeveen motorway interchange. A28, A37 and N48 meet here at a cloverleaf. The interchange has A28 running in a 'TOTSO' (turn off to stay on), if you drive from Zwolle to Groningen you have to exit here to follow A28. Especially before the age of GPS there were many anecdotes about people not realizing they have to turn off and only noticing it when they see Emmen is 20 km away, or even when they end up in Germany.

Also, notice the U-route is integrated. This is not the standard way of signing U-routes (shamelessly copied from Germany). U = _uitwijkroute_ / deviation route. U-routes run across secondary roads but for this reason they are not used very often, because the advise is almost always to follow an alternative motorway, not a secondary road. It looks like a hobby project that spun out of control.

A third note is the usage of (D) after Meppen. This is not standard usage for Dutch signage with foreign destinations, but this was likely done to avoid confusion with similarly named Meppel, which is a secondary control city on A28 in this region.


Knooppunt Hoogeveen 01 by European Roads, on Flickr


Knooppunt Hoogeveen 02 by European Roads, on Flickr


Knooppunt Hoogeveen 03 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## Suburbanist

Well, Dutch secondary roads often have insufficient capacity to deal with traffic deviation, with few exceptions. So if people actually followed this advice, the secondary roads would be very congested and taking a longer deviation through other A-routes would be the faster option anyway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are plans to replace the Rhine Bridge at Rhenen by a four lane bridge in the near future. The bridge is one of the busiest two-lane roads in the Netherlands, it carries 32,000 vehicles per day. 

The bridge was originally built as part of the Kesteren - Amersfoort railway in 1883. It was damaged in 1940 and 1944. The bridge was rebuilt as a road bridge on the original bridge piers in 1957. The railway terminus is now at Rhenen, on the north side of the bridge. 


N233 Rijnbrug Rhenen 04 by European Roads, on Flickr


N233 Rijnbrug Rhenen 07 by European Roads, on Flickr


N233 Rijnbrug Rhenen 08 by European Roads, on Flickr


N233 Rijnbrug Rhenen 09 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## da_scotty

Would be nice if they rebuild the railway section as well and not only a highway, it's only a very short extention towards the existing railway at Kesteren.


----------



## EtienneM

Coccodrillo said:


> The Gaasperdammertunnel seems to have an intermediate exit, weren't they forbidden in tunnels in NL?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=51c1d215-5acb-4f8f-9b86-cd3ffaa5ccb6&cp=52.307815~4.969693&lvl=18&style=h&imgid=ec0d217a-8971-480e-a75e-0b5511512c3a&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027


This is what is looks like in the tunnel tube itself. The idea is that you can't change lanes in the tunnel to comply with the law (The exit is also situated on the left of the parallel road, which is quite unusual).


Gaasperdammerweg - Dag van de Bouw 2019 by Etienne M, on Flickr


Gaasperdammerweg - Dag van de Bouw 2019 by Etienne M, on Flickr

Maybe it's more clear with these charts where the number of lanes and the tunnel system of the 5 tubes can be seen. As you can see, there is no exchange possible in the tunnel itself, enforced by road markings:


----------



## aswnl

ChrisZwolle said:


> A third note is the usage of (D) after Meppen. This is not standard usage for Dutch signage with foreign destinations, but this was likely done to avoid confusion with similarly named Meppel, which is a secondary control city on A28 in this region.


No, not to avoid confusion with Meppel - but to avoid confusion with Meppen, a little hamlet along A37 near Oosterhesselen.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Hopefully it can be replaced by Bremen one day, once German E233 becomes a four lane highway. Meppen is not really a well-known city, especially not among drivers not familiar with the border region. It would be a suitable destination once traffic to Emmen splits off and there are no notable cities on the Dutch side of the border to function as a secondary control city.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A wildlife crossing over A28 near the village of Spier has been named after a marine that was KIA on a mission in Afghanistan. He was from this area.

This is a new development in bridge naming on Dutch motorways. They were only incidentally named after persons. The former name was the 'Ecoduct Dwingelderveld', named after the nature reserve it connects to. It was built in 2013.


----------



## CborG

da_scotty said:


> Would be nice if they rebuild the railway section as well and not only a highway, it's only a very short extention towards the existing railway at Kesteren.


You would need a complete overhaul of the betuwe line (not the freight line) from Kesteren towards Elst. It might be cheaper to use a section of the Betuweroute, the freight line, for passenger traffic.


----------



## da_scotty

Which isn't to bad, it would only be hard to reinstate the old Elst-cord towards Nijmegen. The current line is fine and double tracked from kesteren, but would ofcourse need electrification, which would be a good thing anyway.
It would however negate the time-costly and complex turning around in Arnhem.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The new A4 / N434 interchange near Leiden is a directional interchange with flyovers that were cast in-situ instead of using prefabricated beams.


----------



## woutero

My comment was meant to help explain why so many distribution centers are in Brabant. It is because of the geographical proximity to the Belgian market. Even if they are highly automated, you still need people to operate them. In Belgium they cannot at all be operated at night, which is essential in delivering goods the next day. We all love 'order before midnight, delivered the next day'. So it's not about the number of people you need, it is about being able to work at night, which is not legal in Belgium.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Suburbanist said:


> Do distribution centers really employ a lot of people?
> 
> They are highly automated these days.


Amazon is constantly hiring in the U.S.


----------



## MichiH

Penn's Woods said:


> Suburbanist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do distribution centers really employ a lot of people?
> 
> They are highly automated these days.
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon is constantly hiring in the U.S.
Click to expand...

well, distribution centers are usually automated but the automation grade is still quite low and they still need a lot of employees.

_I recently joined a developer team whose goal is to work automate distribution centers. The reliability for this kind of automation on the market is still quite low. Our first customer will most likely be located in the Netherlands._


----------



## Suburbanist




----------



## Attus

It's great but you need a lot of free space for that.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Most of these are (semi) greenfield projects in the urban periphery.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Data shows that due to the coronavirus, the traffic volumes declined and so did the number of crashes: reduced by 50%. However fatal accidents remained the same.

Normally there are 11,193 - 11,651 crashes in week 12-17 from 2017 to 2019. 2020 recorded 6,245 crashes during that time, a decline of 46%.

However the number of injuries & deaths per crash increased by 14% to 0.24. 

The changes;

crash participants: from 16,842 down to 8,364
casualties (injuries & fatalities): from 2,392 down to 1,493
injuries: from 2,328 down to 1,431
fatalities: from 65 down to 62

The decline of crashes is most pronounced during rush hour. Normally the oversaturation of the roads leads to more crashes. This is a well-known phenomenon. The increase of casualties is most pronounced in the rural to light urbanized categories and the least in heavily urbanized categories. 

The data also shows that the increase in severe crashes is most pronounced among the elderly, the 70-80 year old group saw a 70% increase, mostly as a cyclists (bicycle or e-bike). Another interesting shift is the strong decline among children up to 10 years as a pedestrian, but a similar increase among them as a cyclist. They don't walk to school but cycle for fun. It should be noted that the sample is pretty small if you refine it this far.

Other factors mentioned: more bicycle casualties due to recreational cycling, in particular among the older age group. Also an increase of motorcycle casualties, and a strong decline in car occupant casualties due to lack of traffic. Also a slight increase in casualties among delivery vans.


----------



## bpg_nl

Attus said:


> It's great but you need a lot of free space for that.


Or you just create some space. In my hometown Arnhem we received some help  from our German neighbours during '40-'45 after which this bearpit was built.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A new sign has been installed, revealing the number N601 at Vught.

N601 will form the previously unnumbered section of the Den Bosch Ring Road (between A2 and A59). More signs will be installed with this number in the near future, also on A59.










Photo by Via.


----------



## da_scotty

Chris what's your opinion regarding signing more of the high number n-roads. E.G. a N603 in the same area.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some 101 on the Dutch N-road numbers;


N100 - N399 are primary provincial roads. They are almost always signed
N400 - N999 are secondary provincial roads. They are almost never signed

In some cases the N400+ series is signed, but this remains rare. 

As for my personal opinion, I think that many N400+ numbers are too short and they do not form a coherent network, there is a huge amount of gaps between them, because they are generally not numbered when they are in municipal ownership (N601 being a rare exception). 

However, numbers are useful for GPS navigation, because they are shorter and easier for navigation instructions than street names (which are not always as prominently signed in the Netherlands as some other countries). And the provinces usually communicate these numbers if there is construction, so I suppose it makes sense to sign them.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A drawbridge slammed down in the town of Maassluis and was captured on camera:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Apparently some municipalities have installed 'make eye contact signs', that look like Illuminati symbols. 👀


----------



## Suburbanist

A whole new perspective on birds-eye view of A1 X A30 semi-interchange in Barenveld.
(The video is not new, but I only got aware of it today)


----------



## M-NL

ChrisZwolle said:


> A drawbridge slammed down in the town of Maassluis and was captured on camera:


The person on the bike didn't even flinch...


----------



## mappero

^^ Just a normal Dutch day when a drawbridge works faster than it should. Efficiency is the key in this country


----------



## EPA001

Update on the A16-extension just North of Rotterdam. Pictures from the LinkedIn page of construction company Besix:

1.









2.









3.









4.









5.









6.









7.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N270, Wanssum*

Provincial road N270 is being built to bypass the town of Wanssum, including a bridge across a canal. They claim they use the world's longest pre-fabricated, pre-tensioned beams for this project. They are 69 meters long. These are box beams, so they require only 8 of them to make up the entire bridge deck. They will be installed in 11-12 June.

Location: OpenStreetMap


----------



## CborG

Such a weird route, it seems much easier and cheaper to have planned it south of Wanssum instead of through and over a harbour and industrial area. It looks pretty cool though with the terre armée walls


----------



## ChrisZwolle

At first hand it looks like a case of '_why do it the easy way if you can do it the difficult way_', but the bypass will also serve the industrial areas on both sides of that little port area. That means that those trucks don't have to drive through town.


----------



## da_scotty

ChrisZwolle said:


> *A4 Burgerveen - Den Haag*
> 
> The minister of transportation has officially selected alternative B for the A4 widening in the Leiden area. It has been published for consultation. The next step is a draft plan approval.
> 
> This means;
> 
> 2x4 lanes from the Burgerveen interchange (A44) to Leiderdorp
> 2x5 lanes from Leiderdorp to Zoeterwoude-Rijndijk (N11)
> 2x3 lanes from Zoeterwoude-Rijndijk to Zoeterwoude-Dorp (N206) *
> 2x5 lanes from Zoeterwoude-Dorp to Leidschendam (N14)
> * the 2x3 lane section consists of the through lanes. The existing collector/express system is already being extended due to the construction of N434 / Rijnland Route to the future Hofvliet interchange, so it is not a part of this plan.


The current ringvaartaquaduct is suited for 2x3 in a temporary settup right?
Even as a Dutchie it's weird to bike over the aquaduct, very contra-sensual.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

2x3 should not be a problem:


A4-11-8-2010-8 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

'De Uithof' is a research and office park in Utrecht, located near the A27 and A28 interchange. It was renamed to 'Utrecht Science Park' in 2018 and they are now changing all the remaining signs on the motorway. It had its own exit called 'Utrecht-De Uithof'. Which is now Utrecht Science Park.

De Uithof was a pretty well-known name, even outside of the region. Not everyone approves of the English names popping up all over the Netherlands, like 'Rotterdam-The Hague Airport', 'Boxmeer Health Campus', 'High Tech Campus', 'Business Park' or 'World Fashion Centre', just to name a few you can find on the motorway signage.

De Uithof was also a bit of a planning failure, with a large university, but far from a railway station, so you had incredibly crowded buses until the tram opened last year. Traffic is pretty bad despite its location near a motorway. The traffic jams often start in the parking garages in the evening rush hour.


----------



## Attus

The tram line, too, was called Uithoflijn...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think this illustrates the crazy nitrous oxide problem we have in the Netherlands.

Dude crashes his car in the water, climbs on the roof and begins inhaling a balloon....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281864255323754497


----------



## marcobruls

"De uithof" in and around The Hague is something very different and im sure a lot more well known than the area in utrecht.


ChrisZwolle said:


> De Uithof was a pretty well-known name, even outside of the region.


----------



## MrAronymous

Not really. In the northern half of the country the association would be Utrecht.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think this illustrates the crazy nitrous oxide problem we have in the Netherlands.
> 
> Dude crashes his car in the water, climbs on the roof and begins inhaling a balloon....
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281864255323754497


Inhaling or inflating?


----------



## keokiracer

marcobruls said:


> "De uithof" in and around The Hague is something very different and im sure a lot more well known than the area in utrecht.


This is the first time I have heard of the De Uithof area in The Hague.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Apparently it is a sporting venue with an ice skating rink, but according to Wikipedia it hasn't been used for major tournaments in almost 20 years.

De Uithof in Utrecht has one of the largest hospitals in the Netherlands, as well as a university. It's quite visible from A27 and A28.


----------



## EPA001

ChrisZwolle said:


> Apparently it is a sporting venue with an ice skating rink, but according to Wikipedia it hasn't been used for major tournaments in almost 20 years.


They are advertising themselves as the largest indoor sports centre in Europe. Don't know if that is true but De Uithof is well known in The Hague and the surrounding area. Of course the Utrecht Uithof is a much bigger area with many more and very diverse functions.


----------



## Proterra

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think this illustrates the crazy nitrous oxide problem we have in the Netherlands.
> 
> Dude crashes his car in the water, climbs on the roof and begins inhaling a balloon....
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281864255323754497


How on earth did that guy who filmed it know that person's nationality though from that distance? Did he wait for that person to stop being high and climb out and then ask for a passport?


----------



## Slagathor

If the dude yelled anything, he may have guessed it by accent. The Moroccan-Dutch accent is just as distinct as the regional accents.

But more likely, it's a borderline racist assumption based on appearance.


----------



## spartannl

^ Not racist, but discriminatory . 
Its just a total imbecile, nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The city of Roermond has a Designer Outlet, which apparently attracts more German than Dutch customers. It's only about an hour from millions of potential German customers, being so close to the Ruhr Area. 

The problem is that the number of customers overwhelms the capacity of the shopping center, in particular on Saturdays. It gridlocks the N280 leading to the center. The delay is reportedly much greater than the 48 minutes displayed here, more like 1.5 - 2 hours. They also have entrance metering due to social distancing, which worsens the queues.


----------



## da_scotty

What´s the reason they didn´t free-flow the N280/A73 junction? You have a weird stump of autoweg and traffic lights for less then 4km. While on the other side there are two motorways (A73 and BAB52).

Also funny, they use German on some of the signs in the area:
Link: Achtung 80!


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## ChrisZwolle

Likely a cost-saving measure. A73 has become quite a busy motorway. N280 doesn't have very high traffic volumes but it functions like a buffer parking for the outlet center. 

Work is currently underway to build an underpass for through traffic on N280 at the outlet center. The first car drove through it on 11 July.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Construction company Dura Vermeer has resurfaced A20 last weekend:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Netherlands was relatively late to the game of constructing road bridges across major rivers. Most of the bridges were built between the late 1920s and 1940. Most replaced ferries or improvised pontoon bridges. 

This is the Katerveer Bridge in Zwolle, it was built in 1930 and replaced a ferry. It was the first road bridge across the IJssel River at Zwolle. Due to construction on a nearby bridge, it has been taken out of traffic this month, which gives the opportunity to walk or cycle across the bridge without traffic. The bridge is an icon of Zwolle.


Katerveerbrug 02 by European Roads, on Flickr


Katerveerbrug 04 by European Roads, on Flickr


Katerveerbrug 06 by European Roads, on Flickr


Katerveerbrug 07 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Netherlands was relatively late to the game of constructing road bridges across major rivers. Most of the bridges were built between the late 1920s and 1940. Most replaced ferries or improvised pontoon bridges.
> 
> This is the Katerveer Bridge in Zwolle, it was built in 1930 and replaced a ferry. It was the first road bridge across the IJssel River at Zwolle. Due to construction on a nearby bridge, it has been taken out of traffic this month, which gives the opportunity to walk or cycle across the bridge without traffic. The bridge is an icon of Zwolle.
> 
> 
> Katerveerbrug 02 by European Roads, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Katerveerbrug 04 by European Roads, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Katerveerbrug 06 by European Roads, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Katerveerbrug 07 by European Roads, on Flickr


I like that last shot.


----------



## da_scotty

it's a copy of the same system. But i've hardly ever seen it being used, it's never used for detour's or accidents or annuncened in traffic information on the radio or internet.

They use "U" for "uitwijk-route" -> "detour route". Instead of "O" for Omleiding "diversion". Probaby because "O" would look to much like "0".

The system could be usefull but In my opinion it's been a huge waste of money as it's never used. Motorway diversions are mostly via other motorways. Because the non-motorway network isn't fit capacity wise to function as a detour.


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## ChrisZwolle

I think the U-routes were a hobby project that has gotten out of hand. Thousands of such signs have been placed but the system is rarely ever used for the reasons da_scotty mentions.

This is just ridiculous.


N48 Ommen 04-04-2020 07 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think the U-routes were a hobby project that has gotten out of hand. Thousands of such signs have been placed but the system is rarely ever used for the reasons da_scotty mentions.
> 
> This is just ridiculous.
> 
> 
> N48 Ommen 04-04-2020 07 by European Roads, on Flickr


Well, what’s going on on that sign anyway? What’s with the hollow arrow?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This means the other direction is placed on a separate sign. They do this to prevent information overload.

This is the other one 200 meters down the road.

N48 Ommen 04-04-2020 09 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## Theijs

[QUOTE="Penn's Woods, post: 169195965, member: 59998]What’s with the hollow arrow?[/QUOTE]
There is probably another display announcing to which direction leads the hollow arrow.

I heard over the last weeks a few times on the radio the advice to use a ‘uitwijk route’. I think it’s not often mentioned as these routes are sometimes over local roads, which leads to heavy congestion. So they are only used if a road is completely blocked by an accident or reconstruction works.


----------



## MrAronymous

The reason they use uitwijkroute instead of omleiding is because temporary omleiding detour routes are already signes with yellow signs. They're two different concepts.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N434 Rijnland Route *

An update of the Rijnland Route tunnel in Leiden. The TBM 'Gaia' has bored 1700 meters of the second tube.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291328305124302849


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## Suburbanist

U-routes cannot work in the Netherlands due to the limited capacity of diversion routes from main highways.


----------



## keokiracer

Suburbanist said:


> U-routes cannot work in the Netherlands due to the limited capacity of diversion routes from main highways.


You're acting as if the German local roads that have U-routes over them have anything close to sufficient capacity.


----------



## da_scotty

But generally they are routed less through towns, and are less busy. Germany has a better second level network then NL.


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## ChrisZwolle

They do, but full Autobahn closures will also gridlock the secondary roads. 

Apart from them not being a motorway, a major problem is the lower capacity of intersections and roads through towns. 

It has long been policy to detour traffic in the Netherlands via alternate motorways. There are some routes where this is not possible, for example A1 in Eastern Netherlands lacks an alternate motorway route. But they will reroute motorway traffic over alternative motorways even if this means a significant detour. So U-routes are only sporadically used in practice. Construction detours are signposted separately, too. They do not use the U-route system.


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## M-NL

ChrisZwolle said:


> There are some routes where this is not possible, for example A1 in Eastern Netherlands lacks an alternate motorway route.


And just for that reason alone a 2x2 lane N18 (or full length A18), full length A35 and a 2x2 lane N36 (or full length A36) that connects to the A28 or the A37 would have been a good idea.
But there is just not enough traffic for that to happen anytime soon.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

N35 should have been a four lane expressway at the minimum. The traffic volumes are there to warrant it, however they applied an impossible standard for non-motorway routes to be eligible for upgrades. 

The travel time on a certain route (typically 40-50 km) should not exceed 1.5 times on a motorway, but 2 times on a non-motorway before being considered a bottleneck. In case of N35, this means there should be a consistent 40 - 45 minute delay between Almelo and Zwolle before it would be considered a bottleneck. That means an 80-90 minute travel time for 35 kilometers to meet the threshold for a possible motorway upgrade, which is just ridiculous policy. 

This means no N-road would ever be eligible for upgrades. Only political pressure and considerable co-funding from the regions could result in upgrades. This impossible standard is a big "FU" to Eastern Netherlands. All national road projects in Eastern Netherlands, past and present, were only possible because the provinces paid 30-50% of the cost. Just look at the political impossibility to get 10 or 15 million for the N50 upgrade at Kampen, while at the same time there is almost no discussion to meet a € 1 billion funding gap for the A10/Amsterdam-Zuid project.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A27 Merwede Bridge*

They are pouring water on the movable section of the Merwede Bridge. It's hot and the steel bridge expands. They are going to close the bridge at 5 p.m. today to physically shorten the bascule span, they are afraid it would otherwise get stuck for the next week or so because 30+ temperatures are forecast for quite a few days in a row, potentially over 35 as well.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291703157404446720


----------



## Slagathor

That's just embarrassing, especially since we already have so few major river crossings as it is.


----------



## M-NL

This ritual repeats every year. It's just stupid that you still need tanker trucks for this.
Fit the bridge with pumps that pump the water from the river below (or whatever other source) to pipes with spraying nozzles fitted to the guard rails onto the road surface. Can't be that hard. Just make sure you can completely drain the piping when winter comes.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> *A27 Merwede Bridge*
> 
> They are pouring water on the movable section of the Merwede Bridge. It's hot and the steel bridge expands. They are going to close the bridge at 5 p.m. today to physically shorten the bascule span, they are afraid it would otherwise get stuck for the next week or so because 30+ temperatures are forecast for quite a few days in a row, potentially over 35 as well.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291703157404446720


30 celsius isn't actually all that hot....

It's an average summer afternoon in places like New York, Philadelphia, Washington. Never heard of the bridges around here needing to be cooled off in those conditions.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The problem presents itself at bridges which have a movable deck, mostly bascule bridges. They expand to the point that either can't open, or won't close again. It's a recurring problem every summer. The Netherlands is one of the few countries that have these type of bridges on motorways.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another typical heat problem: concrete blowups / buckle. The Netherlands has few concrete roads, but many bicycle paths are made out of concrete, in particular the older ones have insufficient expansion joints, so they come up. This is a slow progress: the concrete contracts less than it expands, so over time the expansion joints will reach capacity as well.

Older bike paths have individually placed slabs, modern bike paths have continuously poured concrete with joints added afterwards. Small joints have short intervals (10 m or so), bigger joints every few hundred meters and they are wider and filled with asphalt.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Caland Bridge in Rotterdam won't close properly, people are stuck in the heat.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1291771434306605058
Caland Bridge is a vertical lift bridge. It is next to the Thomassen Tunnel of A15.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ChrisZwolle said:


> Just look at the political impossibility to get 10 or 15 million for the N50 upgrade at Kampen, while at the same time there is almost no discussion to meet a € 1 billion funding gap for the A10/Amsterdam-Zuid project.





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1292494111442952194

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1292507860866412545


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Splash-driving over the high-tech watercooled Merwede Bridge of A27.

The bridge is scheduled for replacement in the very near future (plan approval is underway).


DSCN1573 by DutchRoadMovies, on Flickr


DSCN1572 by DutchRoadMovies, on Flickr


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## da_scotty

What's the speed limit when driving over the bridge in this situation? Are there extra signs warning for this (via Textcar for example).


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## keokiracer

50 km/h

DSCN1571 by DutchRoadMovies, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

*N915 Noord River Bridge*

Similar to the Merwede Bridge, they are going to slice off 1 cm of the movable bridge deck of the Noord River Bridge in Alblasserdam tonight. This bridge only carries local traffic, most traffic uses the adjacent Noord Tunnel.

The bridge has some interesting history. It was completed in November 1939, a few months before the German invasion. It wasn't mapped by the Germans (and also not by the Dutch military) so it wasn't blown up during the war.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1293200579251113986


----------



## Ingenioren

ChrisZwolle said:


> no N-road would ever be eligible for upgrades. Only political pressure and considerable co-funding from the regions could result in upgrades. This impossible standard is a big "FU" to Eastern Netherlands. All national road projects in Eastern Netherlands, past and present, were only possible because the provinces paid 30-50% of the cost. Just look at the political impossibility to get 10 or 15 million for the N50 upgrade at Kampen, while at the same time there is almost no discussion to meet a € 1 billion funding gap for the A10/Amsterdam-Zuid project.


Can't the n-road upgrades be funded by tolls?


----------



## da_scotty

Tolls generally don't work in the Netherlands, we barely have any toll roads. Especially as there is not a proper alternative road this could potentially gridlock the low capacity underlying network. Motorways/N-Roads cater both to local and long distance traffic, this explains the high exit-density as well, replacing it by a toll road will result in massive resistance and usage of that road. 
Toll's generally work for long distances, or if there is absolutely no viable alternative (passes/tunnels), not in mixed traffic.

The only toll road is the westerschelde tunnel and killtunnel (the wijkertunnel has shadow tall not payed by road users), other links have been de-tolled years ago.


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## Slagathor

There are examples of successfully funding projects with toll though. The Western Scheldt Tunnel will be tolled from its opening in 2003 until 2033 when the costs have been earned back.

It was the same for the Zealand bridge, which was tolled from 1965 until 1992.

When it comes to the outer provinces like Zeeland and Overijssel, they have a choice:
1) Use a tolling scheme to fund a project.
2) Wait for the national government to realize there are other provinces outside of Holland and Utrecht (not going to happen).


----------



## da_scotty

Those two you named fall exactly in the category, no alternative road (or a very long way round). 
Tolling only a part stretch in a eastern province will result in very busy local roads, or people going the slightly longer way, disapating the function of the toll to pay for the expansion the road.


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## ChrisZwolle

Slagathor said:


> There are examples of successfully funding projects with toll though. The Western Scheldt Tunnel will be tolled from its opening in 2003 until 2033 when the costs have been earned back.
> 
> It was the same for the Zealand bridge, which was tolled from 1965 until 1992.
> 
> When it comes to the outer provinces like Zeeland and Overijssel, they have a choice:
> 1) Use a tolling scheme to fund a project.
> 2) Wait for the national government to realize there are other provinces outside of Holland and Utrecht (not going to happen).


3) transfer the road to the province and let them upgrade it. It worked for N34 in Drenthe. 

It's quite clear that national roads (non-motorways) in the periphery have zero priority. Even if they have a high death rate they just don't care at all. Maybe they don't even know that there are 1.2 million taxpayers living in Overijssel province...


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## Slagathor

^^ I forgot about that option. They did the same with the death road N61 in Zeeuws-Vlaanderen (another part of the country The Hague never seems to realize exists) which was upgraded after it was transferred to Zealand province in 2007.

It's a shitty option though, because provinces shouldn't be paying for these roads at all, really.


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## ChrisZwolle

I agree, these roads have a function within the national road network so they should be funded by the national government.

It's also not so surprising that there is a sentiment of politicians living in a 'Randstad bubble' or a 'The Hague bubble' (or in terms of media the 'Amsterdam bubble'). Recently I listened to a reporter from BNR being surprised that housing prices are high outside of the Randstad as well. It almost feels like a 'Paris / province' situation.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> 3) transfer the road to the province and let them upgrade it. It worked for N34 in Drenthe.
> 
> It's quite clear that national roads (non-motorways) in the periphery have zero priority. Even if they have a high death rate they just don't care at all. Maybe they don't even know that there are 1.2 million taxpayers living in Overijssel province...


Off topic, but you all are making a good argument against proportional representation. At least make each province a multi-member constituency (with proportional representation applied to each province).
Not only off topic but none of my business.
Ahem.
Sorry.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Slagathor said:


> ^^ I forgot about that option. They did the same with the death road N61 in Zeeuws-Vlaanderen (another part of the country The Hague never seems to realize exists) which was upgraded after it was transferred to Zealand province in 2007.
> 
> It's a shitty option though, because provinces shouldn't be paying for these roads at all, really.


You should give Zeeuws-Vlaanderen to Belgium. /jk


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A problem is the one-size-fits-all policymaking. This always results in 'peripheral provinces' (which contain the majority of the Dutch population) being the lowest priority. The traffic volumes are so different, in the west practically every major traffic flow is served by motoways with traffic volumes over 100,000 vehicles per day. In the east, south or north many roads are busy for a two-lane road, but congestion is measured poorly so it's not a priority. 

This is also the one-size-fits-all problem of ranking bottlenecks. This methodology results in billion-euro projects for a 10 minute travel time saving while they can't find 10 or 50 million for N-road bottlenecks that will also save 10 minutes of travel time. The budget shortfall of the A10 / Zuidasdok project in Amsterdam alone could fund solutions to almost every traffic problem in Eastern Netherlands. They could build N35 as a four lane expressway and widen A1 and A28 across the Veluwe, plus the N50 four laning, for that kind of money.

An example is the A1 widening in Eastern Netherlands. Finally underway, but pre-financed by the provinces of Overijssel and Gelderland, with a final cost sharing of 40% regional money. As if this is some sort of third-tier regional highway, while in fact it is a classical example of a mainport - hinterland market connection. It's one of the most important transportation corridors in the entire country. It links mainports like the Port of Rotterdam, Amsterdam, Schiphol Airport, flower auctions, etc. to the most important markets.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A 78 meter long gantry has been installed across A4 near Schiphol Airport this night.











Nieuw portaal tussen Schiphol en De Hoek by R. Wegen, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A27 Utrecht - Breda widening*

The Council of State has dismissed all appeals against the widening of A27 from Houten (near Utrecht) to the Hooipolder interchange (near Breda).

This is one of the largest road projects in the Netherlands in the coming years, not in the least because several large river crossings will be replaced. 45 kilometers of A27 will see additional capacity in various forms, ranging from shoulder lanes to 4 full lanes each way.

More info about this project: Tracekaart - Verbreding A27 Houten-Hooipolder


----------



## Suburbanist

Good that they are moving forward with the project! A27 and A58 feel like the most neglected highways in the Netherlands given their traffic.


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## M-NL

In a perfect world the number of lanes per direction and the road capacity would be 100% proportionally linked. 1 lane = 100% capacity, 2 lanes = 200% capacity, etc.
In the real world it is probably more like 1 lane = 100%, 2 lanes = 180% and 3 lanes = 250% (and those stats may be skewed, because busier roads can have lower speed limits).
Does anyone know if there are actual stats for this?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Truck traffic causes people to avoid utilizing the right lane, especially if those truck volumes are relatively high. 

Also, going from a two-lane road to a four lane motorway increases capacity by much more than 100%. Two-lane roads usually carry 20,000 - 25,000 vehicles per day maximum, while four lane motorways are known to be able to carry as much as 4 times those volumes (80,000 -100,000 vehicles per day).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The tunnel of N434 (Rijnland Route) on the south side of Leiden has been named: the Corbulo Tunnel, named after a Roman governor who dug a canal from Leiden to Voorburg in 50 AD. The tunnel crosses the historical route of the Corbulo Canal (now: 'Vliet').


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Corbulo Tunnel*

A better photo:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1308818860234203136
Additionally, the minister is scheduled to open the new lanes on A1 between Twello and Rijssen tomorrow. This is a 32 kilometer segment of A1 that has been widened in 1.5 years


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Apeldoorn - Hengelo*

The minister of transportation has officially opened the first stage of the A1 widening in Eastern Netherlands. The first stage is a 32 kilometer stretch between Twello and Rijssen. The Twello - Deventer segment has been widened from three to four lanes each way, the Deventer - Rijssen segment has been widened from two to three lanes each way.

Construction began in stages between March 2019 and March 2020, so the widening was completed in six months time west of Deventer and 1.5 years east of Deventer. 

The next stage is Rijssen - Azelo (A1/A35), which has recently started and will be completed by July 2021. The western segment between Apeldoorn-Zuid and Twello has yet to be awarded. This includes the eight-laning of A1 between the Beekbergen interchange (A1/A50) and Twello.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Cool photo of A1 at Deventer:










Source: DPG Media Privacy Gate


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A4 Schiphol Airport*

Construction has started on a new taxiway bridge over A4 at Schiphol Airport. The bridge will be 250 meters long and 60 meters wide.


----------



## EPA001

^^ The current taxiway bridge will be replaced by this new bridge I presume?


----------



## Koesj

^^ No they're doubling it up to make them oneway each, just like with the A and B taxiways IIRC.


----------



## da_scotty

They are, it's the only single part and as such bottle neck in the taxiway ringroad of the terminal complex.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Twello - Rijssen*

I took some photos of the widened A1 today:

1.

A1 Twello - Rijssen 02 by European Roads, on Flickr

2.

A1 Twello - Rijssen 03 by European Roads, on Flickr

3.

A1 Twello - Rijssen 04 by European Roads, on Flickr

4.

A1 Twello - Rijssen 07 by European Roads, on Flickr

7.

A1 Twello - Rijssen 12 by European Roads, on Flickr

9.

A1 Twello - Rijssen 17 by European Roads, on Flickr

10.

A1 Twello - Rijssen 22 by European Roads, on Flickr

11.

A1 Twello - Rijssen 24 by European Roads, on Flickr

13.

A1 Twello - Rijssen 27 by European Roads, on Flickr

14.

A1 Twello - Rijssen 29 by European Roads, on Flickr

15.

A1 Twello - Rijssen 31 by European Roads, on Flickr

16.

A1 Twello - Rijssen 33 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

The eastbound tube of the Gaasperdam Tunnel of A9 in Amsterdam opened to traffic this morning.


Untitled by R. Wegen, on Flickr


Untitled by R. Wegen, on Flickr


Untitled by R. Wegen, on Flickr


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> The eastbound tube of the Gaasperdam Tunnel of A9 in Amsterdam opened to traffic this morning.
> 
> 
> Untitled by R. Wegen, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Untitled by R. Wegen, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Untitled by R. Wegen, on Flickr


What’s the logic of Hengelo as a control city? There are larger places that are closer. Just curious if there’s a rule to it.


----------



## Rover030

Probably because it's the largest city near the border. Similarly it says Maastricht and Den Bosch at Utrecht, even though Eindhoven is a much more popular destination on the same highway.


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## ChrisZwolle

Hengelo represents all of Twente, which contains several cities like Hengelo, Almelo, Enschede & Oldenzaal. Twente has a population of over 600,000. It is seen as a better representation of Eastern Netherlands than Amersfoort or Apeldoorn. 

Enschede is a larger city in Twente, but it's not on A1. A1 is a major route to Germany, and Enschede is not on that route. It's the same reason why Osnabrück is signposted relatively early on in the Netherlands (from Apeldoorn).

Apeldoorn is in fact the largest municipality on A1 east of Amsterdam, but it's often seen as a bit of a secondary city, not signed from more than 30 or 40 kilometers. It's not as important of a junction, in particular for eastbound traffic on A1, not much traffic switches to A50 from the west. This is true for rail connections as well.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> Hengelo represents all of Twente, which contains several cities like Hengelo, Almelo, Enschede & Oldenzaal. Twente has a population of over 600,000. It is seen as a better representation of Eastern Netherlands than Amersfoort or Apeldoorn.
> 
> Enschede is a larger city in Twente, but it's not on A1. A1 is a major route to Germany, and Enschede is not on that route. It's the same reason why Osnabrück is signposted relatively early on in the Netherlands (from Apeldoorn).
> 
> Apeldoorn is in fact the largest municipality on A1 east of Amsterdam, but it's often seen as a bit of a secondary city, not signed from more than 30 or 40 kilometers. It's not as important of a junction, in particular for eastbound traffic on A1, not much traffic switches to A50 from the west. This is true for rail connections as well.


Thanks. I know where the Netherlands’ larger cities are (100,000+, or at least those that were that large the last time I looked this up.  ), but I had to look at the map for Hengelo; then I saw Enschede right next to it.
For that matter, which way do they direct you to Groningen - the A6 (I’ve driven that in the other direction - Groningen to A’dam) or the A28?


----------



## da_scotty

From Amsterdam via the A6, from Utrecht via the A28.


----------



## Penn's Woods

da_scotty said:


> From Amsterdam via the A6, from Utrecht via the A28.


The other direction I did the Afsluitdijk.


----------



## Rover030

Weren't they going to change the Utrecht directions? The A6 route is shorter, slightly faster (checking right now) and as far as I'm aware less congested for now, with all the investment around Almere and the recently widened A27 between Utrecht and Hilversum.

The route via the Veluwe is more scenic though, so I would recommend that one more for one-time trips.


----------



## Slagathor

Scenic in the Netherlands, puhr-lease.


----------



## Rover030

It's all relative of course haha.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Slagathor said:


> Scenic in the Netherlands, puhr-lease.


You’re just jaded.
I actually had a pleasant Sunday drive along the Zeeland coast the day the 2015 Tour de France finished at Neeltje Jans. And then was caught in two downpours while I waited for the race (and was unfortunately parked a good distance away), so went on to Antwerp to dry out.


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## MichiH

Suburbanist said:


> All section control?


yep, section control is a pseudo-anglicism for average speed cameras or SPECS.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Dutch term is _trajectcontrole, _which means the speed is measured over a longer stretch of road instead of just a single point like traditional speed cameras. Hence the term 'section control', though I doubt if that is correct English. I'm not sure if it even exists in North America, so Americans and Canadians may have no idea what 'section control' means. I'd say 'average speed check' may be a better term than 'section control'.


----------



## M-NL

ChrisZwolle said:


> I'm not sure if it even exists in North America, so Americans and Canadians may have no idea what 'section control' means.
> ...
> I'd say 'average speed check' may be a better term than 'section control'.


I think generic descriptions like 'automated average speed check' or 'automated average speed cameras' should make the intention of the system clear enough, but you do need to emphasize the automated part, because that seems to not be allowed in a lot of countries. 

For the USA all I can find is the existence of 'regular' point based camera's in a number of states. But it also seems that in a lot of states, cameras may only be used when an officer is at the spot and directly issues the ticket. Also some states ban cameras all together. It actually surprises me how much differences there are with traffic laws from state to state. 

On the other hand, from country to country in Europe there are also differences. But because the traffic laws are in essence 90+% the same across the world, it is those differences that may catch you out when driving in a foreign country. It shows the essence of preparing yourself beforehand.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Dutch term is _trajectcontrole, _which means the speed is measured over a longer stretch of road instead of just a single point like traditional speed cameras. Hence the term 'section control', though I doubt if that is correct English. I'm not sure if it even exists in North America, so Americans and Canadians may have no idea what 'section control' means. I'd say 'average speed check' may be a better term than 'section control'.


I can’t think of a good term. I Googled “average speed cameras,” but most of the results were British or Australian.
I don’t think “traject” even exists in English. My auto-correct just flagged it. If it’s used at all, it isn’t widely used. I understand it, but probably from the French “trajet.” I’d call a traject a stretch of road or a segment of road, depending on how casual the context is. So I Googled “segment control” but got nothing. And “stretch control” sounds like something you’d wear to avoid pulling a muscle during yoga or something.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Here’s a two-year-old Canadian article that talks of “average speed cameras,” but as something that only exists elsewhere:



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/average-speed-cameras-point-to-point-alberta-canada-1.4839623


----------



## Slagathor

So it's hyphenated in Canadian English? First I hear of it and I have Canadian relatives and friends. 

I do remember driving past a "radar de tronçon" in Quebec province at one point. I guess they would more easily adopt it from France, where it's relatively common.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Slagathor said:


> So it's hyphenated in Canadian English? First I hear of it and I have Canadian relatives and friends.
> 
> I do remember driving past a "radar de tronçon" in Quebec province at one point. I guess they would more easily adopt it from France, where it's relatively common.


I hadn’t noticed that, but I’d probably hyphenate it too, and I used to edit articles for publication. Although I think hyphenation is a matter of style and convention more than any rule. But let’s not go down a linguistic rabbit hole here.


----------



## Slagathor

Indeed. There are two linguistic subjects I refuse to broach without a significant supply of alcohol: compound nouns in English and prepositions in Dutch.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Environmental zone totem pole


IMG20201110171904 by DutchRoadMovies, on Flickr


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> Environmental zone totem pole
> 
> 
> IMG20201110171904 by DutchRoadMovies, on Flickr


Is there a place for people to pull over and read it?


----------



## da_scotty

But we don't have mandatory German style car classification badge/stickers yet right?

Most Dutch people have no clue wat 'number' there car falls into.


----------



## Slagathor

Mine is whatever the worst number is. I'm pretty sure.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

da_scotty said:


> Most Dutch people have no clue wat 'number' there car falls into.


It's displayed on the license registration card (kentekencard) since 2014. Mine is Euro 6.


----------



## M-NL

da_scotty said:


> But we don't have mandatory German style car classification badge/stickers yet right?


Even in germany the sticker isn't mandatory. It's just, that when you don't have it, you can't enter any Umweltzone and you are pretty much limited to Autobahns.
What I don't understand is that the German sticker only go up to 4. Regardless if you have a Euro 4, 5 or 6 or an EV. All get a green 4.

This again is something that the EU should coordinate. An ever increasing number of countries is introducing environmental zones, but all in their own way. Some do it based on vehicle age, some on polution class, some on the kind of vehicle (the totem pole allows taxi from 2009 or newer, regardless of class). That should be unified for Europe, so that you don't get separate rules for identifying vehicles that are allowed to enter zones.


----------



## aswnl

http://archive.etsc.eu/documents/copy_of_copy_of_Speed Fact Sheet 5.pdf

EU uses "Section control" for more than 10 years now...

It's also called Average speed enforcement (ASE)


----------



## Stuu

Penn's Woods said:


> I hadn’t noticed that, but I’d probably hyphenate it too, and I used to edit articles for publication. Although I think hyphenation is a matter of style and convention more than any rule. But let’s not go down a linguistic rabbit hole here.


Come on let's go down the rabbit hole!... I would say it doesn't need hyphenation as there is no such thing as a speed camera that is average, as opposed to top-of-the-range: so there is no need to clarify that it is the speed that is average not the camera. Trajet obviously exists in English as trajectory, although not commonly used to describe a path along a section of road.

Signs on the road in the UK say "Average speed check" with a symbol of camera, and average speed control is used in technical/legal documents


----------



## Penn's Woods

M-NL said:


> Even in germany the sticker isn't mandatory. It's just, that when you don't have it, you can't enter any Umweltzone and you are pretty much limited to Autobahns.
> What I don't understand is that the German sticker only go up to 4. Regardless if you have a Euro 4, 5 or 6 or an EV. All get a green 4.
> 
> This again is something that the EU should coordinate. An ever increasing number of countries is introducing environmental zones, but all in their own way. Some do it based on vehicle age, some on polution class, some on the kind of vehicle (the totem pole allows taxi from 2009 or newer, regardless of class). That should be unified for Europe, so that you don't get separate rules for identifying vehicles that are allowed to enter zones.


I haven’t been in Europe in a few years now, but I’m imagining this is getting to be more and more of a headache for people driving rental cars across borders. And I wouldn’t expect, say, Hertz in Amsterdam to be familiar with Germany’s rules.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Stuu said:


> Come on let's go down the rabbit hole!... I would say it doesn't need hyphenation as there is no such thing as a speed camera that is average, as opposed to top-of-the-range: so there is no need to clarify that it is the speed that is average not the camera. Trajet obviously exists in English as trajectory, although not commonly used to describe a path along a section of road.
> 
> Signs on the road in the UK say "Average speed check" with a symbol of camera, and average speed control is used in technical/legal documents


Wiktionary (I know, I know, but it was the first hit) says “traject” as a noun is obsolete. Apparently it -can- be a verb: Definition of TRAJECT.

Strictly speaking, when a phrase is used as an adjective, you hyphenate it. Hence “average-speed camera.” But if you’re too consistent about that it gets to looking silly. I believe current advice from the Associated Press, which sets style rules for most American newspapers and many other professional word users - we followed it at the marketing job where I was the de facto editor - is to drop it when an expression is widely enough used that no one would misunderstand it. So we could stop hyphenating “average-speed camera” in North America once they’re more common. Let’s hope it never comes to that.


----------



## Penn's Woods

aswnl said:


> http://archive.etsc.eu/documents/copy_of_copy_of_Speed Fact Sheet 5.pdf
> 
> EU uses "Section control" for more than 10 years now...
> 
> It's also called Average speed enforcement (ASE)


*has been using
I don’t consider the EU an authority on English usage.


----------



## g.spinoza

Penn's Woods said:


> *has been using
> I don’t consider the EU an authority on English usage.


Well EU (used to) have English mothertongues on its side. From England. They would notice weird language.


----------



## EPA001

riiga said:


> Swedish road signs don't look like that.


They are different from the ones used in The Netherlands for sure. Picture grabbed from the screen in Google Maps.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Pavement rehabilitation in the Noord River Tunnel of A15 just east of Rotterdam. 

This tunnel was built as one of two shadow toll concessions in the Netherlands and opened to traffic in 1992. The concession ends in 2022, under Dutch concession law, an infrastructure asset must be handed over in good condition at the end of the concession. It is sometimes claimed that the concessions cause the contractor to receive money but doesn't do any renovations for the last half of the concession. This shows that that is not true.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A9 Holendrecht - Badhoevedorp*

The eight lane expansion of A9 along the south side of Amsterdam, between the Holendrecht (A2) and Badhoevedorp (A4) interchanges is a PPP project that was awarded to a consortium made up of FCC, Macquarie, Count&Cooper and Siemens. It was the first PPP road project in the Netherlands to be awarded to an exclusively foreign consortium.

However FCC has contracted major Dutch constructor Heijmans as a subcontractor for the project, Heijmans will pave the wider motorway and build the noise barriers, for € 80 - 90 million.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*N35 Nijverdal - Wierden*

The Council of State has annulled the plan approval for the N35 expressway upgrade between Nijverdal and Wierden, because it was based on a nitrogen programme that was annulled in 2019. The plan approval decision was issued in December 2018, when the programme was still valid.

However they also issued a verdict on other appeals, 35 out of 36 were dismissed, only the nitrogen issue appeal had a valid ground. The minister of transportation stated that a replacement plan approval is already underway and since all other appeals were dismissed, it would consists solely of a new nitrogen study.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Construction will commence this month for the widening of A20 west of Rotterdam. A short segment of 3.5 km will be widened from 2x2 to 2x3 lanes, as this will feed into the under construction A24 motorway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Bamboo traffic signs... These photos were taken 1.5 years apart.


Bamboo traffic sign-05 by European Roads, on Flickr


bamboe verkeersbord 03 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## Reivajar

ChrisZwolle said:


> Bamboo traffic signs... These photos were taken 1.5 years apart.
> 
> 
> Bamboo traffic sign-05 by European Roads, on Flickr
> 
> 
> bamboe verkeersbord 03 by European Roads, on Flickr


A pilot for testing new materials? What is expected to last the most? The reflecting coating on the front of the signal or the base panel in bamboo?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

These have a projected lifespan of 20 years...


----------



## Slagathor

Why are we judging the quality of a sign by how the reverse of it looks? Surely the obverse is more important.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The reverse of the sign is more telling of the quality at this stage than the front, because the signface masks any defects for now (some signs show bubles/ripples) Others have reported that the bamboo signs were beginning to fall apart which will be visible on the reverse side at first.

The reverse of the sign has been standardized across the country to create a uniform look: all the signs have the same gray RAL color.

The sign has a projected lifespan of 20 years, but it is already visually degraded after 16 months.


----------



## TM_Germany

It's normal for wood to wheather like that. What's more interesting is whether it stays structurally intact.


----------



## Slagathor

ChrisZwolle said:


> The sign has a projected lifespan of 20 years, but it is already visually degraded after 16 months.


The changing color does not necessarily indicate structural weakening. It's a natural product, it turns grey. That's just what it does. My neighbor has a wooden lining on his house that turned grey in the first year but 20 years later, it's still there. Never had to be painted, never had to be replaced. That's just how it looks.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Slagathor said:


> That's just how it looks.


It could be a point of debate if this decayed look is acceptable. There are regulations for signs to all have the same background color, which amongst other things, would make them less visible in the streetscapes and create a uniform look. Another point is reflection but that's not an issue here.


----------



## Slagathor

Jesus. Only in the Netherlands.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's why we're not Belgium 🙃


----------



## Reivajar

ChrisZwolle said:


> It could be a point of debate if this decayed look is acceptable. There are regulations for signs to all have the same background color, which amongst other things, would make them less visible in the streetscapes and create a uniform look. Another point is reflection but that's not an issue here.


We can go beyond, and actually if all the signals should have the same back color no matter its location. I bet that it is not the same a signal in the center of R´dam than in a suburbial area surrounded by greenery.

Anyhow, my concern was mostly focusing on the structural integrity of the signal. Not really into the texture, as even it is complicated to ensure that the dying of the material is going to be the same in different environments (wind and water exposure, maritime influence, etc.).


----------



## Penn's Woods

Slagathor said:


> Jesus. Only in the Netherlands.


🍿


----------



## Penn's Woods

Slagathor said:


> Jesus. Only in the Netherlands.


Just wait till the EU tries to standardize sign backs for all 27.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

Penn's Woods said:


> Just wait till the EU tries to standardize sign backs for all 27.


The EU doesn't even have stardards for the front of the sign  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_European_road_signs


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## Rover030

Doesn't this grey colour make it look closer to the traditional metal signs? Seems like a good development...


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## Theijs

I will take a picture when the old traffic lights have been taken away (and red dragons have been painted, like in the Chinatown district of The Hague).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

High water levels on the IJssel River at Zwolle in the Netherlands. They say it's the highest water levels in 3 years due to snowmelt in the Alps and rain in the Rhine basin in Germany. These are not extreme water levels though, it can be 2 meters higher, the river only slightly overtopped its summer banks so far. The winter dikes are much higher. However this does mean that the water level is higher than the surrounding land.

There are three bridges spanning the IJssel River, the blue Katerveer Bridge (built in 1930), the red Hanzeboog railway bridge (2011) and the A28 motorway bridge (1970). The Katerveer Bridge was the first major river bridge of the first national road plan of 1927 to be completed.


IJssel Zwolle 04-02-2021 04 by European Roads, on Flickr


IJssel Zwolle 04-02-2021 11 by European Roads, on Flickr


IJssel Zwolle 04-02-2021 16 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Victory Boogie Woogie Tunnel in The Hague will be inaugurated today. The traffic opening won't be until next week, maybe not until 12 February.

Location of the tunnel: OpenStreetMap


----------



## M-NL

ChrisZwolle said:


> High water levels on the IJssel River at Zwolle in the Netherlands. They say it's the highest water levels in 3 years due to snowmelt in the Alps and rain in the Rhine basin in Germany.


Are there records of the normal variation in water levels? Are these levels exceptional for this time of year? We are only in early februari and the real end of the winter season upstream is yet to come, so my gut feeling says the peak is yet to come.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Conditions on A7:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The frost-thaw cycle has wrecked the asphalt surface of A1 near Barneveld. This usually happens on pavement that's nearing the end of its life. This particular location is scheduled to be widened, which has been continuously delayed. They don't want to waste money on a complete pavement overhaul if a major reconstruction is planned in the near future anyway, but if that reconstruction is delayed, the end-of-life pavement can become problematic. This has happened a few times in my region as well (A28, N35).


----------



## Rebasepoiss

ChrisZwolle said:


> The frost-thaw cycle has wrecked the asphalt surface of A1 near Barneveld. This usually happens on pavement that's nearing the end of its life. This particular location is scheduled to be widened, which has been continuously delayed. They don't want to waste money on a complete pavement overhaul if a major reconstruction is planned in the near future anyway, but if that reconstruction is delayed, the end-of-life pavement can become problematic. This has happened a few times in my region as well (A28, N35).


I'm guessing this section of motorway has porous asphalt as well?


----------



## Slagathor

By now, I think all of them do.

Those potholes look like tire killers.


----------



## da_scotty

Did our southern neighbours invade us?


----------



## Penn's Woods

da_scotty said:


> Did our southern neighbours invade us?


If they did, you’d have better food and beer. /jk


----------



## Reivajar

ChrisZwolle said:


> The frost-thaw cycle has wrecked the asphalt surface of A1 near Barneveld. This usually happens on pavement that's nearing the end of its life. This particular location is scheduled to be widened, which has been continuously delayed. They don't want to waste money on a complete pavement overhaul if a major reconstruction is planned in the near future anyway, but if that reconstruction is delayed, the end-of-life pavement can become problematic. This has happened a few times in my region as well (A28, N35).


I think, in this case, they cannot delay anymore at least some "minor" fixes...


----------



## mootje31

ChrisZwolle said:


> The frost-thaw cycle has wrecked the asphalt surface of A1 near Barneveld. This usually happens on pavement that's nearing the end of its life. This particular location is scheduled to be widened, which has been continuously delayed. They don't want to waste money on a complete pavement overhaul if a major reconstruction is planned in the near future anyway, but if that reconstruction is delayed, the end-of-life pavement can become problematic. This has happened a few times in my region as well (A28, N35).


Looks like Charleroi > Barneveld at this point. A30 needs asphalt replacement ASAP. This isn't where my road taxes are going..


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## ChrisZwolle

They installed these signs at the Westerschelde Tunnel in Zeeland province. They instruct motorists to turn off the adaptive cruise control (ACC), because there have been an increasing number of incidents where the ACC abruptly braked hard for no reason when entering or inside the tunnel.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A6 Lelystad*

A new interchange opened along A6 today, Exit 9 Lelystad-Airport. The new interchange connects to N727, which is a provincial road that links to N302 and the still inoperable Lelystad Airport. It will also serve a new industrial area called Lelystad Airport Businesspark or LAB. 

There are plans to extend N727 into the south side of Lelystad, possibly creating a full interchange. It's presently a half interchange, only to and from Almere. 

The exit number 9 was reserved when exit numbering was introduced. There was a jump from 8 in Almere to 10 in Lelystad.


----------



## Turf

How do you access N727 from Lelystad? (North)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You can access N727 via N302 (exit 10), but this won't be a useful connection until they will extend N727 west to the south side of Lelystad. And even if N727 is extended west, the difference with exit 10 will remain minimal from the north. 

Extending N727 will serve new developments on the south side of Lelystad, most of those commuters will travel south to Amsterdam or Utrecht.


----------



## Slagathor

Turf said:


> How do you access N727 from Lelystad? (North)


If you're trying to get out of Lelystad: by any means necessary. Drive through a fvcking brick wall if that's what it takes!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Lelystad has a bad reputation, but quite frankly most of the city isn't much different from the rest of suburban Netherlands, in fact it has much more greenery: a national park to the south, beaches and marinas among both lakes, forests on the north and east side. The city center is kind of depressing though, it lacks defining geographic features and it doesn't have any historical buildings, most of it was built in the 1960s and 1970s.


----------



## Suburbanist

Lelystad is also home to the most kitch of shopping outlet areas with fake-old buildings (near the Batavia Stad). It has a modern street design, though, with large boulevards, and it is arguably the Dutch _woonerfen (_quiet local street) capital.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Victory Boogie Woogie Tunnel has opened to traffic yesterday evening in The Hague. It links the Binckhorst quarter with A13.

The tunnel is a twin-tube bored tunnel with a length of 1860 meters. The tunnel contract was awarded for € 301 million. The opening was 7 months behind schedule due to a longer than anticipated testing period.

Location: OpenStreetMap


----------



## Slagathor

I really hate this stupid tunnel. It's 300 million euros largely wasted as it adds extremely little.

It was meant to replace the old route (the Haagweg-Rijswijkseweg, in red arrows below). That, it does. But the only benefit is that you can now enter The Hague slightly faster through a tunnel as you avoid the traffic lights on the old route.

But, crucially, you still end up at the exact same bottlenecks which remain the same. It also adds _nothing _relative to the existing city entry of the A12 motorway.

This money would have been much better spent elsewhere. I can think of at least 3 other locations to the North and the South of the city where a tunnel would have been more useful.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This is one of four planned upgrades of entries into The Hague, to make the city less dependent on A12.

These are;

upgrade of N14
Rotterdamsebaan
Prinses Beatrixlaan (appears to be scrapped)
N211


----------



## Slagathor

Last I checked, the "upgrade" of the N14 consists mostly of maintenance of the existing (and ageing) infrastructure.

The upgrade of the N211 is a bit better in that they're adding lanes and turning 2 intersections into grade separated crossings, but it will still finish where it currently finishes.

Instead of this stupid VBW-tunnel, they should have dug a tunnel at the end of the N211. That tunnel, if it had reached deep into the city (let's say at least past the Haga hospital, but preferably all the way to the Valkenboslaan), would have made a _real _difference.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A tunnel plan for a ring road of The Hague was studied, and it was found to have significant traffic benefits, but the costs were too high to be seriously considered at that time. 

The idea for N14 is to replace the traffic lights with some form of grade-separation, but this is rather complex due to the tunnels being so close to the intersections.


----------



## da_scotty

I really hoped that they combined it with a public transport tunnel, it's on the same route of multiple tram lines to Ypenburg, Nootdorp and Delft, and passes straight through a high rise area with high amounts of future development.


----------



## Slagathor

ChrisZwolle said:


> A tunnel plan for a ring road of The Hague was studied, and it was found to have significant traffic benefits, but the costs were too high to be seriously considered at that time.
> 
> The idea for N14 is to replace the traffic lights with some form of grade-separation, but this is rather complex due to the tunnels being so close to the intersections.


Yeah, I can understand all of that. And I'm not saying we should build an entire underground ring road.

But if you're going to dig a tunnel deep into the city, the place to do it is in the South. Not right next to the A12 which already leads deep into the city.

You can only spend that money once, you should do it in a location where it makes the biggest difference.

I can't help but wonder if it's really just a coincidence that this tunnel seems to be the most useful to civil servants who live in the fancier Eastern suburbs and work in the city center...

The South of The Hague is mostly home to poor, working-class families so nobody cares.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

Yes, the N211 is really where attention is needed. The original design, especially the connection with the A4 seemed to be based on a great underestimation of the expected traffic volumes. 
They've been reconfigering and squeezing in more lanes pretty much since the opening 20 or so years ago. 
A major overhaul would not be misplaced.
While retaining the current A4, N211 interchange for Wateringseveld, Den Hoorn, traffic exiting the A4 from the south, and the service areas a tunnel connection from the A4 north directly to the N211 beyond Wateringseveld would clear up much of the bottleneck. 
That would remove nearly all heavy vehicles bound for The Hague and Westland/ Naaldwijk and probaby >60% of cars from the existing interchange, not to mention safer as well by eliminating the sharp bends.


----------



## Theijs

Here is an analysis of the N211: Reconstructie N211 Wippolderlaan: Toelichting

I don’t know how they plan to reconstruct the exit and entries of the A4 towards the N211. As far as I know there is not much physical space for creative solutions.

However, I do know two intersections on the N211 will be reconstructed:
View attachment 1112396


*Wippolderlaan*









*Veilingroute / N222*








Source: N211 Wippolderlaan

Furthermore, the intersection of N211 and Erasmusweg needs to be reconstructed by 2028.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Victory Boogie Woogie Tunnel is named after the Mondrian painting, which is located in the Hague.

People from all over the world come to see it:


----------



## Suburbanist

The funny thing is that Victory Boogie Woogie is an incomplete work. I do not consider it to be even a top 5 Mondrian work. It is like La Gioconda in relation to Leonardo da Vinci.


----------



## Slagathor

I can at least appreciate the fact that they named a stupid useless tunnel after a stupid useless artist.

That isn't a painting so much as it's a printer test page.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The preferred alternative has been selected for the A1/A30 interchange near Barneveld. Unfortunately it's not as extensive as hoped. A1 will be widened through the interchange, with a new connector from A1 to A30 south and from A30 to A1 east.

Some have argued to detach N301 from the interchange, as N301 is a low standard road to Nijkerk (mostly 60 km/h), so traffic can use the nearby Voorthuizen exit. And McDonald's could also move to that exit. This would enable a much simpler traffic configuration. 

Also, the loop ramp from A30 to A1 west is one of the busiest of such loop ramps in the Netherlands, carrying nearly 19,000 vehicles per day, making it as busy as the busiest loop at the Hoevelaken cloverleaf (which is planned to be reconstructed). It would definitely help if this loop ramp would be replaced by a direct connector flyover.


----------



## da_scotty

I really wonder and hope if this is prepared with a fututere A30 -> A1 flyover in mind parallel to the new connector.


----------



## Turf

ChrisZwolle said:


> The preferred alternative has been selected for the A1/A30 interchange near Barneveld. Unfortunately it's not as extensive as hoped. A1 will be widened through the interchange, with a new connector from A1 to A30 south and from A30 to A1 east.
> 
> Some have argued to detach N301 from the interchange, as N301 is a low standard road to Nijkerk (mostly 60 km/h), so traffic can use the nearby Voorthuizen exit. And McDonald's could also move to that exit. This would enable a much simpler traffic configuration.
> 
> Also, the loop ramp from A30 to A1 west is one of the busiest of such loop ramps in the Netherlands, carrying nearly 19,000 vehicles per day, making it as busy as the busiest loop at the Hoevelaken cloverleaf (which is planned to be reconstructed). It would definitely help if this loop ramp would be replaced by a direct connector flyover.
> 
> ...


O I was hoping for more. Such a strange situation moving from Apeldoorn (A1) to Ede (A30) via this interchange. Though the upgrade on the southern side this will solve some congestion as it removes one crossing.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

Drove through the new Boogy Woogy Victory tunnel citybound (A13 to Binkhorst) a couple of evenings ago. 
Very light and pleasent tunnel interior. Creamy white with plenty of lighting.
At the Binghorst end the 2 tunnel lanes become the 2 left turn lanes towards the Neherkade. To continue straight you must switch to the righthand lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A timelapse video of the new Lelystad Airport Interchange of A6. The overpass was constructed from scratch in 45 days.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

N257 across the Philips Dam in Zeeland province.


----------



## Slagathor

Perfect example of clustering wind turbines in an area where they don't bother anyone.

This is a lot better than randomly placing them throughout the landscape on the land of whichever farmer doesn't mind renting out a few square meters to an energy company.


----------



## sven_engelen

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Victory Boogie Woogie Tunnel has opened to traffic yesterday evening in The Hague. It links the Binckhorst quarter with A13.
> 
> The tunnel is a twin-tube bored tunnel with a length of 1860 meters. The tunnel contract was awarded for € 301 million. The opening was 7 months behind schedule due to a longer than anticipated testing period.
> 
> Location: OpenStreetMap


For the people who want to see a video of that:


----------



## Theijs

The streetname of which this tunnel is a section, is called Rotterdamsebaan.
Not without a reason... I tried to enter it coming from the north, Amsterdam/Utrecht, and there is no exit to enter the tunnel. Moreover, road crossings have been reconfigured that you can enter this S107 only from the south.
See the two directions marked in green on this map (exit on A4 and exit on A13).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There were plans for three such spur roads into The Hague:

Utrechtsebaan (A12)
Rotterdamsebaan (S107)
Leidsebaan (never built)


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

ChrisZwolle said:


> The preferred alternative has been selected for the A1/A30 interchange near Barneveld. Unfortunately it's not as extensive as hoped. A1 will be widened through the interchange, with a new connector from A1 to A30 south and from A30 to A1 east.
> 
> Some have argued to detach N301 from the interchange, as N301 is a low standard road to Nijkerk (mostly 60 km/h), so traffic can use the nearby Voorthuizen exit. And McDonald's could also move to that exit. This would enable a much simpler traffic configuration.
> 
> Also, the loop ramp from A30 to A1 west is one of the busiest of such loop ramps in the Netherlands, carrying nearly 19,000 vehicles per day, making it as busy as the busiest loop at the Hoevelaken cloverleaf (which is planned to be reconstructed). It would definitely help if this loop ramp would be replaced by a direct connector flyover.


I'd suggest the issue at Hoevelaken is not so much high volumes for a loop as low radius loops, plus many weaving spaces between the loops and up to the adjacent junction on the A1.

None of this applies here and I would have thought the volumes could be handled by a proper freeflow loop. What is curious, though, is that the loop will retain a very tight turn, so the full radius is not utilised. It seems this may be explained by ramp metering:









Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.co.uk





The fundamental issue may be a lack of A1 capacity west of the junction, which will not be resolved by the current scheme if it only widens the A1 through the junction. A connector would only make this worse as well as create problems with the nearby rest area.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The loops at Hoevelaken have a fairly decent radius. Though at some point these reach maximum capacity, in particular also the weaving between the loops.

The ramp metering at Barneveld is due to the high volume of traffic from A30 to A1, this is the motorway from Arnhem to Amersfoort and Amsterdam. The merge from A30 to A1 is quite a congestion hotspot, as A1 already lacks sufficient capacity and then there is a big flow of traffic entering the motorway as well. Eastbound A1 has a shoulder lane, but westbound A1 doesn't (they argued it would move the bottleneck from Barneveld to Amersfoort). 

However A1 is planned to be widened to 2x4 lanes between Amersfoort and Barneveld. This will surely eliminate the bottleneck westbound. However the traffic volumes on A1 all the way to Apeldoorn are high enough to justify six lanes (75,000 - 80,000 vehicles per day). But no such widening is scheduled, even though it would be easy and relatively cheap.


----------



## sven_engelen

Especially because of the wide median it has near the Veluwe forest. It should be easy to expand the A1 on that stretch. But there are more important stretches of Autosnelweg which need expansion. The A58 between Breda and Eindhoven for example.


----------



## da_scotty

ChrisZwolle said:


> There were plans for three such spur roads into The Hague:
> 
> Utrechtsebaan (A12)
> Rotterdamsebaan (S107)
> Leidsebaan (never built)


While never built fully, there are however G.T.I's of the plans, I bike past them everyday.:

The Haagweg/Leidseweg junction is very oversized with a weird set up. They are prepared for a motorway junction, as are the bridges, the road would have continued straight ahead at this point through the small forrest and landhouse:








Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.nl





Also this tunnel underneath the railway (which was dual, not quadrupple at the time) was accomadated to have both rail and motorway on top of it, hence it's stretched and long:








Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.nl





There also used to be a overpass near Voorschoten, but that has been demolished.


----------



## Rover030

Theijs said:


> The streetname of which this tunnel is a section, is called Rotterdamsebaan.
> Not without a reason... I tried to enter it coming from the north, Amsterdam/Utrecht, and there is no exit to enter the tunnel. Moreover, road crossings have been reconfigured that you can enter this S107 only from the south.
> See the two directions marked in green on this map (exit on A4 and exit on A13).


From the A4-north, you can enter the tunnel via the Laan van Hoornwijck:


----------



## Theijs

Rover030 said:


> From the A4-north, you can enter the tunnel via the Laan van Hoornwijck.


Thanks for your recommendation!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They've installed an experimental noise mitigation measure on N201, called a 'whiswall'. It's a horizontal extension on a jersey barrier that reduces noise. People in the area say it is effective in reducing noise substantially, while not having the aesthetic disadvantage of a 3-4 meter high noise wall.


IMG20210306103131 by DutchRoadMovies, on Flickr


IMG20210306103045 by DutchRoadMovies, on Flickr


----------



## Suburbanist

I am really curious to understand how this design disturbs the sound waves coming from trucks.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A15 Suurhoff Bridge*

The temporary Suurhoff Bridge of A15 has been assembled. This is a temporary bridge to span the canal in the Port of Rotterdam until a replacement bridge is built. The temporary bridge is being built off site and will be shipped to its final position at a later point.

Final destination: OpenStreetMap


----------



## Suburbanist

How long will it stay in place?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It depends on the exact plans for the Suurhoff Bridge. The current bridge is in poor condition, it was scheduled to be rehabilitated with high strength concrete but they found out the bridge was not suitable for this, so they had to schedule a replacement.

However, if replaced, it would open up the possibility to ease the tight S-curve at the ends of the current bridge. But this would require a more extensive plan approval than a regular replacement. Funding may also be an issue, so far they've reserved € 86 million for the replacement, but the plans are not final yet.

If everything goes according to plan, a replacement should be built in the second half of the 2020s, so this temporary bridge would only remain in place for around 7-9 years. It is designed in a way that it can be reused elsewhere, even though no suitable location has been identified yet.


----------



## M-NL

ChrisZwolle said:


> However A1 is planned to be widened to 2x4 lanes between Amersfoort and Barneveld. This will surely eliminate the bottleneck westbound. However the traffic volumes on A1 all the way to Apeldoorn are high enough to justify six lanes (75,000 - 80,000 vehicles per day). But no such widening is scheduled, even though it would be easy and relatively cheap.


So from Barneveld westwards 2x4 lanes, from Apeldoorn eastwards 2x4 to Deventer and 2x3 to Azelo and they leave it at just 2x2 in between across the Veluwe. Who came up with that marvelous idea?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There used to be plans for the so-called 'plus lanes' along A1 all the way from Hoevelaken to Hengelo (90 kilometers). Only the plus lanes between Apeldoorn and Deventer were eventually built (which are now being replaced by a proper eight lane widening). 

The Barneveld - Apeldoorn segment doesn't seem to be a priority at this time. Traffic tends to be a bit more seasonal there. It's not terribly congested and the truck share isn't as high. All three four lane motorways across the Veluwe are similarly busy (A1, A28, A50). Ideally the whole triangle should be widened to six lanes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A tender has launched for the construction of the 'Klijndijk' interchange of N34 north of Emmen. This interchange will use the existing overpass of the Slenerweg and replace the last two at-grade intersections of N34 (apart from the Gieten N33 roundabout interchange). Construction is scheduled to start in September 2021 and take around 9 months. Most work consists of constructing parallel roads for local access. The projected contract value is € 4 million.

The project location: OpenStreetMap


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's windy today. Most of these problematic trucks are the same type: empty Polish trucks with a single-axle trailer.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1369970526723145728

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1369969272672370692

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1369968640137760771

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1369968089580904449

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1369942642486829059
https://twitter.com/WeerWinter/status/1369934016070180866


----------



## Slagathor

Don't they cover this during the training when you go for a truck driver's license? Or are the employers pushing them to hit the road anyway?


----------



## da_scotty

More the latter then the former in this regard, this is properly stormy today.


----------



## kosimodo

ChrisZwolle said:


> A tender has launched for the construction of the 'Klijndijk' interchange of N34 north of Emmen. This interchange will use the existing overpass of the Slenerweg and replace the last two at-grade intersections of N34 (apart from the Gieten N33 roundabout interchange). Construction is scheduled to start in September 2021 and take around 9 months. Most work consists of constructing parallel roads for local access. The projected contract value is € 4 million.
> 
> The project location: OpenStreetMap


Doesnt look prepared for a future 2x2 expansion towards Groningen.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

kosimodo said:


> Doesnt look prepared for a future 2x2 expansion towards Groningen.


That's correct, they want to use the existing overpass. That's a reason why it costs only € 4 million. 

The latest plan for N34 is to build a couple of brief 4 lane segments here and there, as a sort of '2+1' road. 

I don't drive N34 frequently, but apparently there are problems with foreign truckers who think you can drive only 60 km/h like in Germany. The legal truck speed limit on such roads is 80 km/h, just like any other rural road that's not a 60 zone.


----------



## spoortje nijverdal

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's windy today. Most of these problematic trucks are the same type: empty Polish trucks with a single-axle trailer.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1369970526723145728
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1369969272672370692
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1369968640137760771
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1369968089580904449
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1369942642486829059
> https://twitter.com/WeerWinter/status/1369934016070180866


Those Polisch Hot Air Balloons....


----------



## M-NL

ChrisZwolle said:


> I don't drive N34 frequently, but apparently there are problems with foreign truckers who think you can drive only 60 km/h like in Germany. The legal truck speed limit on such roads is 80 km/h, just like any other rural road that's not a 60 zone.


Put up information signs indicating trucks can go 80 km/h in the Netherlands (not an actual traffic sign, but like those information signs telling you that a green divider means 100 km/h for cars or like the speed signs you see at the borders). It's such an easy solution that it's at least worth a try. Getting stuck behind a 60 km/h truck on a 100 km/h road, especially without a possibility to overtake would get annoying very quickly.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another example of foreigners not understanding the speed limit is N50 to Kampen. It's a 100 km/h 2+1 road with traffic lights for access to a service area. The speed limit goes down to 70 km/h at those traffic lights but is 100 elsewhere. However many Germans don't understand the sign and continue to drive 70 km/h.

The problem is that our sign G3 means a higher than regular speed limit: 100 km/h unless otherwise indicated. However both in Belgium and Germany this sign does not include a higher speed limit. So many foreigners don't know the rules of this specific sign (which you can't really blame them for). This could easily be solved by adding a 100 km/h sign or painting 100 on the pavement. The argument that 'foreigners should know every little detail of the traffic code' doesn't solve such problems.


----------



## McBeans

Agree. If you exact punitive fines such as Holland does, the least you can expect is that speed limits are indicated very clearly. It’s already annoying that they put the 70 sign there. Stop changing the speed limit every 2 kilometers to confuse and collect fines. Design a good road with constant speeds. Or if you can’t do that like here, set the speed limit lower over the entire length of the road.

Its what’s ruining driving in Italy. Cameras are omnipresent, away from the autostrada the maximum speed frequently changes more than twice per km. And fines are high. Please stop that nonsense. Sorry Italy. I love your country. Just not the constant fear of fines.


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## Suburbanist

Traffic light with a 100km/h limit is probably not allowed. It is too dangerous as well for 90-degree collisions.


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## ChrisZwolle

The stopping distance is too great at 100 km/h. However traffic lights on these type of roads are rare. This type of road should normally be built to expressway of express road standards: fully grade-separated. However there are a few that have roundabouts. Or movable bridges (N50 has two of them). 

N50 is one of the most incoherent roads in the Netherlands. While fully an 'autoweg' (expressway), it varies from 2+1, 1x2, 2x1 & 2x2 lanes, plus this set of traffic lights and two movable bridges.


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## Suburbanist

At that specific location, I don't understand why they use traffic lights and speed reductions, instead of just having an automated gas station on the other side with a pedestrian overpass to the main convenience store. The train tracks are not that close.


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## McBeans

I get it. Indeed I feel that if it’s a 100 road keep it grade separated. If you can’t do that make it an 80, and just stop make me go 100 -> light 70 -> 100 -> oh truck exit 50 -> light 70 -> 100 etc etc the entire length. It’s annoying and wasteful in fuel. Half the time you’re behind a truck or slower vehicle anyway. Time wise it’s no different for law abiding drivers if it’s 80. Speeders will do as they please they can keep going 100 or more. I prefer a more constant flow. Personal opinion of course.


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## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> At that specific location, I don't understand why they use traffic lights and speed reductions, instead of just having an automated gas station on the other side with a pedestrian overpass to the main convenience store. The train tracks are not that close.


I think the operator of the fuel station + hotel have some agreement that they are accessible from both directions. 

When travelling northbound, closing this access point means that there is no fuel station or parking area for 50 kilometers from the last one on A50 to the next one on A6.


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## Attus

You have in the Netherlands some quite crazy speed limits just like it's 80 but if the road has a green line in the middle, it's 100 (or somethinkg like that), you may not expect that any foreigners understand and follow these rules. 
However, there are the usual speed limit signs at every major border crossings (EXAMPLE) and even at many less important ones (EXAMPLE). Many secondary roads don't have them, but even some quite narrow minor ones do (EXAMPLE). And all of them singalize the speed limit for "Autoweg". So I think, apart from some motorists who cross the road at a minor side road from the neighboring countries, the vast majority of foreign drivers should know this limit. And for professional truck drivers it's an absolute must to know the speed limits of the country they are driving in.


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## ChrisZwolle

Attus said:


> You have in the Netherlands some quite crazy speed limits just like it's 80 but if the road has a green line in the middle, it's 100 (or somethinkg like that), you may not expect that any foreigners understand and follow these rules.


The green line is indicative. It's always accompanied by sign G3:


N34 Hardenberg-5 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

The border crossing Beek (A12) with Germany. The historic name is 'Bergh Autoweg'. It opened in 1962 as a motorway, possibly the first one in Europe that wasn't a result of a border change (like Poland-East Germany).

This photo was taken in 1996. All buildings on the Dutch side were demolished in the early 2000s, including the roof over the motorway. Right now it's just a truck parking on an empty wasteland.


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## M-NL

ChrisZwolle said:


> The argument that 'foreigners should know every little detail of the traffic code' doesn't solve such problems.


Exactly. That argument will come to haunt you, when you go abroad yourself. The traffic codes are surprisingly similar around the world, making exactly those details very important. But you can't expect foreigners to know everything. When I go abroad I have to ask myself the same questions. Simple stuff, like implied meaning of signs, where does a speed restriction end or when to use your indicators? That makes it very logical for foreigners to drive on the safe side (as long as you don't make sudden stops). Why can't we harmonise the traffic code within the EU?


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## Slagathor

I agree with all of that, but I will say this:

In my experience, German and French drivers are not very good at observing the traffic around them and adapting. Maybe this is a "big country" thing and they're just not used to doing it, but Benelux folks do this better (on average).


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## M-NL

Do you mean that while driving abroad or also in their home country? Note that when you're abroad you need to adapt in several ways. The traffic around you behaves different, the way roads are constructed and signed are different as well and you have to navigate on unfamiliar territory as well. I think it also has more to do with the regular environment you're used to. People from more dense areas tend to drive slightly more aggressive, while people from more rural areas drive slightly faster. In France and Germany there simply is more rural area.


----------



## McBeans

Slagathor said:


> I agree with all of that, but I will say this:
> 
> In my experience, German and French drivers are not very good at observing the traffic around them and adapting. Maybe this is a "big country" thing and they're just not used to doing it, but Benelux folks do this better (on average).


What are you smoking when you're driving to reach that conclusion? 🤪🤡😂🤣
On second thought, if by Benelux drivers adapting you mean breaking every every rule in the book and German and French drivers staying within the law you are absolutely right.


----------



## Ni3lS

Slagathor said:


> I agree with all of that, but I will say this:
> 
> In my experience, German and French drivers are not very good at observing the traffic around them and adapting. Maybe this is a "big country" thing and they're just not used to doing it, but Benelux folks do this better (on average).


Like Dutch drivers merging into the left lane with 110 km/h on a stretch of unlimited autobahn?


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## Slagathor

Just me then? Alright. I was mostly basing this on the German tourists down here in Zeeland (boy they suck).

This is why anecdotal evidence is no good.


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## McBeans

Maybe it’s the knowledge of punitive Dutch fines that make foreign cars stick to traffic rules better and err on the side of caution. Local drivers know the boundaries (and when to safely cross them) better and can drive accordingly. And even when armed with that knowledge the amount of traffic fines collected from local drivers is astronomical.

Now when driving abroad, I don’t think many Dutch drivers will do any serious speeding or other high denomination infractions in say Switzerland or Slovenia. Not unless you want to hand over your entire holiday budget in one go. Or, for shits and giggles, drive 90 on the outer lanes of via Christoforo Colombo. 😂😂. It’s a really big road. It feels very safe.

To make it anecdotal, I feel very relaxed in Germany or Austria when driving because I know the fines are low. I experience higher stress in Italy where fines are high and cameras everywhere. I drive slower in Italy and often pull out to let people pass me by. I drive much more assertively in Germany. 

Also, when on holiday you are not in a rush. It shows in driving style.


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## ChrisZwolle

I took a bunch of photos of various motorways over the past week.

The 'Woeste Hoeve' wildlife crossing over A50 south of Apeldoorn.

A50 Ecoduct Woeste Hoeve 07 by European Roads, on Flickr

It also spans a local road

A50 Ecoduct Woeste Hoeve 08 by European Roads, on Flickr

The IJssel River Bridge of A12 at Westervoort. The oldest span is currently out of service awaiting renovations (recently awarded).

A12 IJsselbruggen Westervoort 03 by European Roads, on Flickr

The bridge consists of three spans, two built in the early 1960s and a concrete span built in the late 1980s.

A12 IJsselbruggen Westervoort 05 by European Roads, on Flickr


A12 IJsselbruggen Westervoort 09 by European Roads, on Flickr

This was the first location with the new style motorway signage back in 2006. Now 15 years later, the nearest exit still has the old style signage.

A12 IJsselbruggen Westervoort 13 by European Roads, on Flickr

This was one of the first in December 2006. This particular sign has already been replaced (the lifespan of a sign is around 15 years).

A12 IJsselbruggen Westervoort 14 by European Roads, on Flickr

An underpass of N377 in the town of Balkbrug opened on Sunday.

N377 Balkbrug 21-03-2021 07 by European Roads, on Flickr


N377 Balkbrug 21-03-2021 16 by European Roads, on Flickr

A12 at the Oud-Dijk interchange. It has rotational signs but I'm not sure if they are used frequently. Apparently they can show two exit lanes to A18, but the ramp to A18 is only a single lane.

A12 Knooppunt Oud-Dijk 01 by European Roads, on Flickr

An old style motorway-to-motorway interchange (knooppunt) sign.

A12 Knooppunt Oud-Dijk 03 by European Roads, on Flickr

Closer to the interchange. The bridge will be replaced for the A12 six laning in the near future.

A12 Knooppunt Oud-Dijk 06 by European Roads, on Flickr

Exit 1 of A18 at Didam. Traffic to Oberhausen has to exit here because the A12/A18 interchange (Oud-Dijk) is incomplete. Not much traffic uses this route anyway.

A18 Didam 02 by European Roads, on Flickr

A28 at Hierden (near Harderwijk).

A28 Hierden 08 by European Roads, on Flickr


A28 Hierden 12 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

Planning failure: the new four lane N451 at Waddinxveen. It opened in December 2016, to provide a new crossing adjacent to A12 which funnels through the Gouwe Aquaduct. The idea was that traffic from Gouda would use N451 instead of A12. Traffic volumes were initially already low: only some 6,300 vehicles per day. However more recent traffic data shows a usage of only 1,500 vehicles per day: congestion disappeared during the pandemic so almost nobody uses this road anymore. This may be the least-used N-road in the Netherlands, while being located in some of the most densely populated areas.

This road was quite expensive because it included a large bascule bridge across the Gouwe River.

Location: OpenStreetMap

N451 is the four lane road on the left:


----------



## EPA001

A report with video regarding the temporary new Suurhoffbridge. It will be transported in May through Rotterdam to it's destination in the Europoort port area of Rotterdam.

From the Rijnmond-website (in Dutch only)

*Nieuwe Suurhoffbrug bijna klaar voor bijzonder transport*


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## ChrisZwolle

*A2 Het Vonderen - Kerensheide*

The Council of State has dismissed the appeals against the widening of A2 between Het Vonderen (A73) and Kerensheide (A76) interchanges. The project can proceed. A2 will be widened to six lanes with shoulders. Pretty much the entire motorway will be rebuilt.



ChrisZwolle said:


> The minister of transportation will sign the final plan approval for the widening of A2 in Limburg province tomorrow.
> 
> A2 will be widened to 2x3 lanes with shoulders. It currently features 2x2 lanes with shoulder lanes that are open almost the entire day.
> 
> However it's not just a simple lane addition, this motorway was opened mostly in 1963-1965 and has some antiquated design standards. The bridges will also reach the end of their service life within the next 25 years, so it was decided to entirely rebuild the motorway and replace all structures.
> 
> The widening is scheduled for 2022-2025, but there have been repeated calls to start construction earlier, perhaps already in 2020.


----------



## sven_engelen

The A16 runs from the Belgian border to Rotterdam and connects Antwerp to Rotterdam and further. The A16 is also known as the port connector (not harbor connector as described in the video). It connects the port of Rotterdam with the port of Antwerp and it connects Rotterdam with Brussels and further south to France. A very important route.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Zaandam Interchange (A7/A8), just outside of Amsterdam. There used to be plans for a massive reconstruction to make Amsterdam - Purmerend the through route, but was too expensive and impossible to do with the current nitrogen crisis. The landscape behind it is a Natura 2000 site.


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## ChrisZwolle

Typical motorway maintenance in the Netherlands: a weekend closure to resurface the entire roadway at once. There is no need to tear it up down to the foundation if you do this before the pavement gets too bad. Resurfacing the entire roadway at once also gives a much better result. It's also easier for future maintenance.

These contracts are usually awarded as a 1-2 year 'variable major maintenance' for a sector in the Netherlands, which means the contractor has a steady flow of work on several motorways over the course of around 2 years. It keeps the motorways in good condition but there isn't long-term traffic impact. 

There is a huge preference in the Netherlands to do road construction 'quick and heavy', as they prefer a short term complete closure over a long-term construction zone. Unlike Germany or Belgium, there are no construction zones for pavement maintenance that last for a whole season, except for major widening projects and a few other major reconstruction projects. Some resurfacing is also done at night, especially on high-volume motorways.

This is on A67. Photo by contractor Heijmans.


----------



## Dixie Dean

ChrisZwolle said:


> *N31, Netherlands
> 
> 18 December 2014*
> 
> The Leeuwarden bypass opens to traffic in the Netherlands. It is an 8 kilometer segment of four-lane controlled-access expressway with a 100 km/h speed limit. Traffic opening is around 4 p.m. It includes one Dutch aquaduct (waterway underpass) and a new interchange with A32.


----------



## Dixie Dean

Why is the N31 an N road rather than an A road. It appears from the air to qualify.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

N31 is a four lane expressway, which has lower design standards than a motorway, especially in the horizontal and vertical curvature. The 'Werpsterhoek' interchange is also not up to motorway standards, this is why A32 turns into N32 just 1 or 2 kilometers before the interchange.

Dutch motorways were designed according to the American Interstate Highway design standards of 75 mph. Which had a 5 mph margin, so they are built to accommodate speeds of up to 130 km/h safely. However these so-called 'regional expressways' were built with a 100 km/h design speed.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Not something you'll see regularly in the Netherlands; a cable car going over a motorway, in this case A6 at Almere. The cable car is temporary for the 'Floriade 2022' horticultural exposition.

The last Floriade in the Netherlands was held in 2012 in Venlo and drew over 2 million visitors. It also featured a cable car.









Photo by Omroep Flevoland


----------



## MattiG

ChrisZwolle said:


> Typical motorway maintenance in the Netherlands: a weekend closure to resurface the entire roadway at once. There is no need to tear it up down to the foundation if you do this before the pavement gets too bad. Resurfacing the entire roadway at once also gives a much better result. It's also easier for future maintenance.


Does such a policy really make benefits enough to justify the inconvenience?

A modern repaving equipment can make 5-10 lane kilometers new tarmac per 24 hours if working in three shifts. The equipment is not much wider than the lane, thus making it possible to keep the other lanes open. If the temporary road furniture is moved ahead while the work proceeds, the length of the working zone is about one kilometer, thus making not much harm.


----------



## Suburbanist

MattiG said:


> Does such a policy really make benefits enough to justify the inconvenience?
> 
> A modern repaving equipment can make 5-10 lane kilometers new tarmac per 24 hours if working in three shifts. The equipment is not much wider than the lane, thus making it possible to keep the other lanes open. If the temporary road furniture is moved ahead while the work proceeds, the length of the working zone is about one kilometer, thus making not much harm.


The Dutch highway networks is dense and very busy, which means the ecnonomic damage of partial extended closures is less than fast-paced jobs. Detours often involve using other highway routes often 30km longer, highways that do not have a lot of spare capacity as well. Weekend closures make it easier to minimize total disruption. I also dont think it costs more, as it reduces overhead.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Keeping the motorway partially open greatly increases the cost of traffic control, while suffering from huge congestion. There is no benefit to keeping a motorway half open with the traffic volumes we have in the Netherlands. It's better to shut it down entirely during the weekend, or do it overnight.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A10 Amsterdam*



ChrisZwolle said:


> *A10 Amsterdam*
> 
> The 'Zuidasdok' project of A10 in Amsterdam appears to be heading to a major redesign or even cancellation.
> 
> The € 1.6 billion project has already been awarded and is in the design phase. The contractor has problems coming up with an acceptable design and it is already delayed.
> 
> The project included a 12 lane tunnel of A10, a redesign of two motorway interchanges and the expansion of the Amsterdam Zuid railway station. It has long been criticized that only half the original project would cost a lot and has limited benefit. The original, € 3+ billion plan was to put both the motorway and railway underground. The current plan only puts the motorway underground, which replaces a motorway with an expansive rail yard. The project is seen as a major prestige and is bound for extensive cost overruns and long-term disruption of the area.
> 
> It has also been criticized whether a growth of traffic to 300,000+ vehicles per day should be accommodated at all, and if large-scale development of office space at such a location is a good idea given the constraints of the transportation systems. Some experts also fear that tunnel traffic metering will create extensive additional traffic congestion in the area, similar to other tunnels. Given the proximity of the tunnel to other motorways, this could significantly impact the regional network. 10 to 15 kilometer backups are regularly recorded at the tunnels of A2 and A4.
> 
> The minister has published a letter to parliament, in which she said that mediation between the government and the contractor will be initiated, but also that a new study will be done for the purpose and need of the project, including possible downscaling of the project. Most people read this as a possibility that the entire project will be redesigned / downscaled.
> 
> A render of the plan:


The cost estimate for the project has escalated to € 3.1 billion, which means there is a € 1.2 billion budget shortfall.

Considering the complexity of this project and the fact that most construction hasn't even started, a further cost escalation is definitely not unthinkable.

It seems increasingly difficult to justify this project, especially in a post-corona world, where working from home may be more of a norm and this area would be one of the most suitable for teleworking in the Netherlands. However this project seems to have become 'too big to fail' as they do want to seek more money for the project.

If built, this would be one of the most expensive projects ever undertaken in the Netherlands. It will likely be the fourth-most expensive transportation infrastructure project, after the € 7.2 billion high-speed rail, the € 5 billion Schiphol-Amsterdam-Almere motorway project and the € 4.7 billion Betuwe freight railway. However this A10 project will stretch for only 5 kilometers, which means the current cost estimate amounts to over € 600 million per kilometer.


----------



## Suburbanist

The railway station needs to be expanded regardless of the road works, enlarging Amsterdam Zuid is critical for all the major schemes that NS and ProRail are already heavily invested upon for the next 20 years, including diversion of several trains out of Amsterdam Centraal as part of the plan to have metro-like frequencies across the Randstad heavy rail network.

One cannot possibly do that without a larger Amsterdam Zuid station.

So lets see how this go around.


----------



## Spookvlieger

ChrisZwolle said:


> Planning failure: the new four lane N451 at Waddinxveen. It opened in December 2016, to provide a new crossing adjacent to A12 which funnels through the Gouwe Aquaduct. The idea was that traffic from Gouda would use N451 instead of A12. Traffic volumes were initially already low: only some 6,300 vehicles per day. However more recent traffic data shows a usage of only 1,500 vehicles per day: congestion disappeared during the pandemic so almost nobody uses this road anymore. This may be the least-used N-road in the Netherlands, while being located in some of the most densely populated areas.
> 
> This road was quite expensive because it included a large bascule bridge across the Gouwe River.
> 
> Location: OpenStreetMap
> 
> N451 is the four lane road on the left:


I don't understand. The N207 is clearly a more direct route to Gouda for Waddinxveen.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> So lets see how this go around.


I think they should abandon the tunnel plan. This is very expensive with little benefits. There is no need to put A10 underground: noise receptors (houses) are not near the motorway and have office buildings as an acoustic buffer. Air quality is also not an issue, NO2 values are under 30 µg/m³ and PM10 values under 20 µg/m³. This will only improve further with electric vehicles. 

No tunnel would also eliminate the threat of tunnel entrance metering, which can quickly gridlock the nearby motorways due to the short distance to A1, A2 & A4. It will also save a lot of money on future maintenance & operations, tunnels are hugely expensive to maintain nowadays.

Also, they could scrap the proposed collector/express system. They should build A10 with 2x5 lanes instead of the currently planned 12 (2+4+4+2). This would create a smaller footprint and would make construction much easier. This is not the right place to accommodate huge traffic growth. To be fair, A10 currently functions fairly reasonable with 2x4 lanes. They could even build A10 with 5 lanes and no shoulders for the 3 kilometer core section. It de-facto already has no functional shoulders.


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## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think they should abandon the tunnel plan. This is very expensive with little benefits. There is no need to put A10 underground: noise receptors (houses) are not near the motorway and have office buildings as an acoustic buffer. Air quality is also not an issue, NO2 values are under 30 µg/m³ and PM10 values under 20 µg/m³. This will only improve further with electric vehicles.
> 
> No tunnel would also eliminate the threat of tunnel entrance metering, which can quickly gridlock the nearby motorways due to the short distance to A1, A2 & A4. It will also save a lot of money on future maintenance & operations, tunnels are hugely expensive to maintain nowadays.
> 
> Also, they could scrap the proposed collector/express system. They should build A10 with 2x5 lanes instead of the currently planned 12 (2+4+4+2). This would create a smaller footprint and would make construction much easier. This is not the right place to accommodate huge traffic growth. To be fair, A10 currently functions fairly reasonable with 2x4 lanes. They could even build A10 with 5 lanes and no shoulders for the 3 kilometer core section. It de-facto already has no functional shoulders.


Collector lanes seem to be a bad idea for traffic patterns in the Randstad. I wonder if they had ever considered collector lanes on the A2 project to Utrecht back in the day.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The first 2 kilometers of the new N69 south of Eindhoven have opened to traffic on 27 April. This segment links N69 to N397. The next stage to A67 will open later this year.


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## ChrisZwolle

The temporary Suurhoff Bridge has been shipped through Rotterdam this past night. It was shipped from Krimpen to its destination in the Port of Rotterdam. 

The arch bridge is a temporary structure for A15, due to the poor condition of the existing bridge and the inability to rehabilitate it as originally planned.


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## ChrisZwolle

The main shipping route in Northern Netherlands is the Lemmer - Delfzijl waterway. However it has a history of bridge strikes, including three in the past two weeks!










31 May: ship hits bridge at Aduard. The whole bridge of the ship was torn off, and the car plunged into the canal.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399426038174781445
30 May: ship hits the Fonejacht Bridge of N31 (actually it hit the protective pylons, not the bridge itself)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399026643025514496
15 May: ship rams the Gerrit Krol Bridge in Groningen, destroys it

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1393903788898017284
2018: Paddepoel Bridge near Groningen was rammed and destroyed

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1332204637718523904


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## ChrisZwolle

The Friesland regional broadcaster reported that 23 ship collisions with bridges or protective pylons ocurred over the past 5 years on this canal. 

Experts say the main reason are foreign captains not familiar with this route. Unlike most rivers and other canals, this shipping route has a lot more bridges with height and width limitations. They say that almost all collisions involve foreign crews, mostly from Poland and Czechia.

The collision at Aduard is as of yet unexplained. There was perfect weather with sun from behind, so there were no obstructions to the view at all. 

There are plans to improve the canal further, but a large-scale approach is expensive. Replacing all those bridges with fixed spans or aquaducts will cost hundreds of millions of euros. This canal handles relatively large vessels, they are planning to upgrade the canal to CEMT class Va, which are the largest Rhine ships (up to 4,200 tons capacity and around 100 meters in length). Apparently these types of ships are already using the canal.


----------



## ChrisZwolle




----------



## ChrisZwolle

I took some photos of the Spannenburg Bridge of N354 (south of Sneek). The bridge was built in 1951 and is functionally and structurally obsolete. It will be replaced in the near future, a decision about the preferred alternative is expected this year.

The options;

a bascule bridge with a 7.2 m clearance (current height)
a bascule bridge with a 9.4 m clearance (Rhine shipping height)
an aquaduct

The bridge spans the Princess Margriet Canal. Construction of this canal started in the early 1930s and this section was completed a few years later. The original swing bridge was destroyed during World War II and replaced by a temporary pontoon bridge in 1949. At that time the permanent current bridge was already under construction and completed in 1951. The canal was also inaugurated in 1951. An 118 meter high radio tower was built in 1974, which is currently the highest tower in Friesland province.


N354 Brug Spannenburg 03 by European Roads, on Flickr


N354 Brug Spannenburg 18 by European Roads, on Flickr


N354 Brug Spannenburg 20 by European Roads, on Flickr


N354 Brug Spannenburg 29 by European Roads, on Flickr


N354 Brug Spannenburg 35 by European Roads, on Flickr


N354 Brug Spannenburg 37 by European Roads, on Flickr


N354 Brug Spannenburg 39 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

This weekend is the finishing touch of the widening of A1 between Rijssen and the Azelo motorway interchange (A35). There will be 2x3 lanes available from tomorrow morning. The westbound A1 is closed this weekend to complete the widening.

This part of the A1 widening commenced in late 2020 and was completed in circa 8 months. It is 10 kilometers long.


A1 Rijssen Azelo 06-06-2021 01 by European Roads, on Flickr


A1 Rijssen Azelo 06-06-2021 02 by European Roads, on Flickr


A1 Rijssen Azelo 06-06-2021 03 by European Roads, on Flickr


A1 Rijssen Azelo 06-06-2021 06 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## MacOlej

ChrisZwolle said:


> The westbound A1 is closed this weekend to complete the widening.


Does it happen often in NL that there are no disruptions in one direction but road is completely closed in the other direction and a detour is put in place? I'd rather expect at least one lane from the direction without construction works to be temporarily switched the other way.


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## da_scotty

Often, like normal, last few weeks the A4 near me (Leiden - The Hague) was closed in one direction quite often.


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## ChrisZwolle

It's too much hassle to set up a contraflow situation for just a weekend. 

Almost all construction in the Netherlands is done overnight or during weekend closures. Long-term construction zones are rare.

But they do exist. There is currently one set up on A50 near Apeldoorn. The motorway is split up in a 3+1 system (3+0 during the weekend). Which causes a lot of congestion.


A50 Beemterweg 06-06-2021 07 by European Roads, on Flickr


A50 Beemterweg 06-06-2021 09 by European Roads, on Flickr


A50 Broeklanderweg 06-06-2021 05 by European Roads, on Flickr


A50 Terwoldseweg 06-06-2021 05 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

The preferred alternative for the A2 widening in Central Netherlands has been published. It concerns 26 kilometers of A2 from the Deil motorway interchange (A15) to the Vught motorway interchange (A65), which also includes the bypass of Den Bosch ('s-Hertogenbosch).

The preferred alternative is an eight lane widening of A2 between Deil (A15) and Empel (A59) and a third lane on the collector system of A2 around Den Bosch, with a 100 km/h speed limit. 

The estimated cost is € 830 million. Funding is available.

The eight lane widening means that two new river bridges need to be constructed: likely a second cable-stayed bridge across the Waal River and a second bridge across the Maas River. The collector / express system of A2 around Den Bosch would also be extended a few kilometers north, across the river to near Hedel.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Waterways & roads, a common occurrence in the Netherlands. These are the Krammer Locks in Zeeland province. Provincial road N257 passes over it. 

The locks are pretty big: 280 meters long and 22 meters wide, making them suitable for large barge combinations. These locks are interesting because they divide salt water and fresh water. There is an intricate system that prevents salt water from getting into the fresh water, using the principle that salt water is heavier than fresh water and that fresh water flows on top of salt water. A system of pumps either pumps out the fresh water or salt water.


----------



## da_scotty

With the A2 works in Den Bosch, Chris, do you expect future work on the A59 (especially towards Oss) as traffic is already very busy there and the jamms will just move.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They should've built A59 from Den Bosch to Oss with six lanes. Traffic volumes are around 90,000 vehicles per day. However the truck share is relatively low, which prevents it from becoming a total bottleneck.

For example A15 eastbound at the Deil interchange is a bigger bottleneck than A59 eastbound at the Hintham interchange. A15 has somewhat lower traffic volumes (80,000) but much more trucks. 

A59 was built as a PPP project, the first DBFM in the Netherlands. Its concession ended in December 2020. A59 is technically a provincial motorway now: Pps-consortium Poort van den Bosch draagt A59 Rosmalen-Geffen over aan Provincie Noord-Brabant | Koninklijke BAM Groep / Royal BAM Group


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## ChrisZwolle

The Netherlands also has ferries across rivers. 

This is a cable ferry at the town of Wijhe. It crosses the IJssel River, which is one of the main rivers in the Netherlands, fed by the Rhine and the only one that flows north.


IJssel Wijhese veer 01 by European Roads, on Flickr


IJssel Wijhese veer 03 by European Roads, on Flickr


IJssel Wijhese veer 04 by European Roads, on Flickr

Prices are € 1 for a bicycle and € 2 for a car.

IJssel Wijhese veer 06 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## ChrisZwolle

I took some photos of N359 over the Princess Margriet Locks at Lemmer in Friesland province. This bascule bridge was built in 1997, it replaced a drawbridge. The locks have almost no height difference between Lake IJssel (IJsselmeer) and the canal. The canal is the main shipping canal through Northern Netherlands, ships up to class Va are allowed, which includes most of the ships that can also travel across the Rhine, except for large barges.


N359 Prinses Margrietsluis Lemmer 01 by European Roads, on Flickr


N359 Prinses Margrietsluis Lemmer 08 by European Roads, on Flickr


N359 Prinses Margrietsluis Lemmer 13 by European Roads, on Flickr


N359 Prinses Margrietsluis Lemmer 16 by European Roads, on Flickr


N359 Prinses Margrietsluis Lemmer 17 by European Roads, on Flickr


N359 Prinses Margrietsluis Lemmer 19 by European Roads, on Flickr


N359 Prinses Margrietsluis Lemmer 21 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## snowdog

Few pictures I took of the van A16 van Bienenoord Bridge. From afar you can barely see there are 2 seperate bridges, one of them, the eatern one, looks in worse shape aestetically.


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## Coccodrillo

ChrisZwolle said:


> I took some photos of N359 over the Princess Margriet Locks at Lemmer in Friesland province. This bascule bridge was built in 1997, it replaced a drawbridge.


What's the difference between a bascule bridge and a drawbridge? The mechanism that opens it (counterweight and motor in one case, cables and winch in the other?)?


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## ChrisZwolle

A bascule bridge has the counterweight sink in a chamber below the bridge deck. A drawbridge has a tower that lifts up the deck.

Though in regular speech, the word drawbridge is often used for both types of movable bridges.

By comparison, this is a drawbridge:

N354 Brug Follega 02 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## snowdog

More pictures of the van Brienenoord .


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## kosimodo

^^ ik ben daar nog eens binnen geweest. ‘87 geloof ik. Ik moet eens oude dozen gaan bekijken. De Maas werd gebouwd en had het hoogste punt bereikt


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## Turf

ChrisZwolle said:


> Waterways & roads, a common occurrence in the Netherlands. These are the Krammer Locks in Zeeland province. Provincial road N257 passes over it.
> 
> The locks are pretty big: 280 meters long and 22 meters wide, making them suitable for large barge combinations. These locks are interesting because they divide salt water and fresh water. There is an intricate system that prevents salt water from getting into the fresh water, using the principle that salt water is heavier than fresh water and that fresh water flows on top of salt water. A system of pumps either pumps out the fresh water or salt water.


Actually this salt fresh water system will get replaced by bubbles instead.
See this youtube from Rijkwaterstaat couple of months ago. In dutch but with animation that probably make the principle quite clear.


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## RipleyLV

I don't quite understand, to where is the left turning lane targeted when coming from the underpass in that draft?


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## ChrisZwolle

They're finishing the landscaping and local road infrastructure on the A9 tunnel in Amsterdam.


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## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> Speed limit of 50km/h imposed over the Haringvilet bridge on A29 from Monday. Traffic will be restricted to one lane per direction.
> 
> Restrictions will remain in place until works are completed in 2023.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maximaal 50 km/h op de Haringvlietbrug (A29)
> 
> 
> Vanaf maandag 26 juli 05.00 uur geldt een maximumsnelheid van 50 km/h op de Haringvlietbrug. Dit is nodig om de brug veilig te kunnen blijven gebruiken.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rijkswaterstaat.nl


This measure has created so much unrest and outrage that it has now been scrapped. The speed limit will still be reduced to 50 km/h, but the bridge will remain at a four lane configuration. The lanes will be narrowed to enforce the lower speed limit. 

Phew!


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## ChrisZwolle

The first concrete for the tunnel elements of the Blankenburg Tunnel / Maas Delta Tunnel has been poured at the Damen shipyard. The tunnel will carry A24 under the waterway in the Port of Rotterdam.


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## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> This measure has created so much unrest and outrage that it has now been scrapped. The speed limit will still be reduced to 50 km/h, but the bridge will remain at a four lane configuration. *The lanes will be narrowed to enforce the lower speed limit.*
> 
> Phew!


Sounds a more sensible measure in line with the application of sustainable safety principles with a ground in reality.


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## ChrisZwolle

The Netherlands currently has a weird political situation. There were general elections on 17 March 2021. However in the 5 months since, there seems to be hardly any progress towards a government formation, it's not even clear which parties will participate in negotiations to form the next government. The government has resigned on 15 January over a childcare benefit scandal, so they don't have as much power for 7 months now. Nobody seems to have any idea when the next government will be in office. 

So far this has not had a great impact on road infrastructure. Parliament has declared a large amount of proposed laws or decisions to be 'controversial', meaning that only the next government will decide about them. This did not include any future road project, though the A12/A27 widening around Utrecht was mentioned, however a 'tracébesluit' (plan approval order) was already decided on before the government resigned so this should not have a major impact in the near future, as the plan approval order still has to pass through the court. Not much news is available about that topic.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

N7 in the northern city of Groningen is being expanded from 2x2 to 2x4 lanes below grade, as well as the grade-separation of the N7-A28 intersection (_knooppunt Julianaplein_).

The project is years behind schedule. It was awarded to a consortium of four small regional construction companies with no experience with projects of this magnitude. They acquired the engineering and expertise from major German construction companies (Max Bögl & Züblin). 

Construction began in 2017 with then a planned completion in 2021. The completion is now set for December 2024.


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## Coccodrillo

When will the single-lane tube of the Gaasperdammertunnel be opened? I suppose it is as wide enough to allow overtaking at slow speed of a broken down car from other vehicles, otherwise in case of a vehicle breakdown stranded vehicles would remain blocked in the tunnel for hours. So, was it really impossible to build two lanes in that tube rather than one?

Single lane tunnels are rare and mostly done to recycle something else (Munt la Schera is a recycled tunnel from a hydropower station, the second Fréjus tube was planned as a safety tube closed to traffic, the two Tenda tubes are single lane because of desire to separate traffic flows while recycling the XIX century tunnel, only the Devil's Slide tunnels come to my mind as modern tunnels built with one lane "on purpose").


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## ChrisZwolle

The single lane tube is a reversible lane, it will be put into service once the A9 eight lane widening through Amstelveen is completed. That project has recently started up as the final phase of the Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere megaproject.


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## ChrisZwolle

German B403 signed in Coevorden:


N382-N863 Coevorden 14 by European Roads, on Flickr


N382-N863 Coevorden 07 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## spoortje nijverdal

Was it on CNN?


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## kosimodo

^^ Forreign RNRs on a signplate is very rare. 

Signplates are part of the road furniture. Thus very relavant on a nerdy forum like this. And certainly in the international part of discussing the roads in the Netherlands. 

The mentioning of the 403 is welcome. But imho odly visualized. It doesnt stand out as RNR


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## Ady

kosimodo said:


> The mentioning of the 403 is welcome. But imho odly visualized. It doesnt stand out as RNR


why should people not think it's 403 km until the N382? 

This is more confusing than helpful


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## Ady

If it would have been stylised properly, on the other hand


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## Cookiefabric

This one looks a bit odd. On the N35 & A73 are also German road numbers mentioned (and signposted in the correct German lay out -- for example: Google Maps )


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## ChrisZwolle

Oude Rijksweg, Erm: OpenStreetMap

This road was built in 1954 to bypass the village of Erm. It was a national road and one of the first post-war national roads in Drenthe province. It has partially been preserved, it's very rare to find a former national road to be in its original pavement condition. This road was bypassed in 1971 and has not seen maintenance since. It's still a public road.

The road still has a number of traffic signs from the 1966 set (which was superseded in 1990). It's a bit like an open-air museum.


Oude Rijksweg Erm 02 by European Roads, on Flickr


Oude Rijksweg Erm 03 by European Roads, on Flickr


Oude Rijksweg Erm 04 by European Roads, on Flickr


Oude Rijksweg Erm 07 by European Roads, on Flickr


Oude Rijksweg Erm 09 by European Roads, on Flickr


Oude Rijksweg Erm 12 by European Roads, on Flickr

This light post has a sticker from '_Rijkswaterstaat dienstkring Drenthe_'. This organization was dissolved in 1994!

Oude Rijksweg Erm 16 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## Ady

ChrisZwolle said:


> Oude Rijksweg, Erm: OpenStreetMap
> 
> This road was built in 1954 to bypass the village of Erm. It was a national road and one of the first post-war national roads in Drenthe province. It has partially been preserved, it's very rare to find a former national road to be in its original pavement condition. This road was bypassed in 1971 and has not seen maintenance since. It's still a public road.
> 
> The road still has a number of traffic signs from the 1966 set (which was superseded in 1990). It's a bit like an open-air museum.
> 
> 
> Oude Rijksweg Erm 02 by European Roads, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Oude Rijksweg Erm 03 by European Roads, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Oude Rijksweg Erm 04 by European Roads, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Oude Rijksweg Erm 07 by European Roads, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Oude Rijksweg Erm 09 by European Roads, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Oude Rijksweg Erm 12 by European Roads, on Flickr
> 
> This light post has a sticker from '_Rijkswaterstaat dienstkring Drenthe_'. This organization was dissolved in 1994!
> 
> Oude Rijksweg Erm 16 by European Roads, on Flickr


Prachtig!


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## Ni3lS

ChrisZwolle said:


> German B403 signed in Coevorden:


Don't like the shape of those direction signs. The pointier ones (I guess the older previous model) look much better.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

ChrisZwolle said:


> Oude Rijksweg, Erm: OpenStreetMap
> 
> This road was built in 1954 to bypass the village of Erm. It was a national road and one of the first post-war national roads in Drenthe province. It has partially been preserved, it's very rare to find a former national road to be in its original pavement condition. This road was bypassed in 1971 and has not seen maintenance since. It's still a public road.
> 
> The road still has a number of traffic signs from the 1966 set (which was superseded in 1990). It's a bit like an open-air museum.
> 
> 
> Oude Rijksweg Erm 02 by European Roads, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Oude Rijksweg Erm 03 by European Roads, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Oude Rijksweg Erm 04 by European Roads, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Oude Rijksweg Erm 07 by European Roads, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Oude Rijksweg Erm 09 by European Roads, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Oude Rijksweg Erm 12 by European Roads, on Flickr
> 
> This light post has a sticker from '_Rijkswaterstaat dienstkring Drenthe_'. This organization was dissolved in 1994!
> 
> Oude Rijksweg Erm 16 by European Roads, on Flickr


Haven't they thought about officially preserving it for the future? 

The Estonian Road Museum is actually restoring an 11 km piece of road in Saaremaa island to as closely as possible resemble a road from the 1950s to 1960s (barriers, signposts, bus stops etc). They are calling it a heritage road. I think something like that would be very fitting for that Dutch road as well.


----------



## DarkLoki

Ni3lS said:


> Don't like the shape of those direction signs. The pointier ones (I guess the older previous model) look much better.


I agree, but I don't like these signs anyway. It's quite awkward to have to look to these signs on a roundabout. I like the foreign designs with the signs on the outside of the roundabout better. They are in your natural line of sight in stead of over your shoulder. With our signs only perpendicular directions are easy to see.


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## ChrisZwolle

A truck turned over on A2, blocking six lanes of traffic. It was moved and then recovered with airbags.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1443433098167963654

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1443492456608280577


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## ChrisZwolle

Interesting case... A12 is closed west of Utrecht for renovations. 

Google Maps showed it closed from Utrecht to Bodegraven earlier, but it now only shows it closed between Utrecht and Woerden. This has a huge effect, everyone tries the local road system to get on A12 at Woerden, earlier this week there was almost no congestion on the local roads, people followed the long detour via A27-A15 or A2-A4. 

I think this shows how many people use Google Maps for navigation, if a closure on their map makes the difference between gridlock or not.


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## Suburbanist

@ChrisZwolle , are you a 'super editor' at national level with Waze in Netherlands?


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## ChrisZwolle

No I'm not involved with Waze, I only use it as a customer.


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## Theijs

@ChrisZwolle When is maintenance work between Woerden and Utrecht on the east bound direction of the A12 scheduled?


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## ChrisZwolle

As far as I know there are no eastbound works scheduled for now. The eastbound roadway has been widened 2 years after the westbound roadway, so it is not as old.


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## ChrisZwolle

Signage for the A44 parclo with N206. The exit numbering is split up into A and B.

There are only a couple of Canadian-style parclo's in the Netherlands. There are three as far as I know, this is the first one with 2 exits in either direction. Another one on A4 at Hoofddorp has two entrances in either direction and another on A35 near Enschede has only two exits in one direction.


2021-10-02_02-06-52 by DutchRoadMovies, on Flickr


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## Gereke

There is a fourth! A2 at Nieuwegein has two entrances in one direction.


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## Ni3lS

I filmed part of the A7 last week crossing the Afsluitdijk. I actually had no clue of the scale of the project. It's much more than just the reinforcement of the seawall and renewing the road surface: https://theafsluitdijk.com/projects/

Around 20:48 you can see a conveyor belt that crosses the road, that's pretty cool. Dredging companies move the sand across the road to strengthen the seawall on the other side.


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## ChrisZwolle

Resurfacing A12 west of Woerden, across the entire roadway (4 lanes + shoulder). They also replaced bridge joints.


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## ChrisZwolle

The old Vianen Bridge is being demolished. This arch bridge opened in 1936 and carried A2 traffic until 1999. It has since been decommissioned. The main span will be shipped out (probably next month) while the approach spans are being demolished.


----------



## da_scotty

What will they do with the span? It's iconic !


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## M-NL

Repurposing an old bridge span that is no longer fit for purpose and served its life span is pretty much impossible. I'm afraid scrapping and recycling the materials is the only option. What else could you do?


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## TM_Germany

Since it originally served as a highway bridge, it might be possible to repurpose it as a bridge with a much lighter load, eg. as a cycle bridge somewhere else. Would be oversized for that purpose, but might still be cheaper than building an entirely new span.


----------



## g.spinoza

TM_Germany said:


> Since it originally served as a highway bridge, it might be possible to repurpose it as a bridge with a much lighter load, eg. as a cycle bridge somewhere else. Would be oversized for that purpose, but might still be cheaper than building an entirely new span.


Yes, but maybe its maintenance costs would be too high for the purpose.


----------



## Cookiefabric

TM_Germany said:


> Since it originally served as a highway bridge, it might be possible to repurpose it as a bridge with a much lighter load, eg. as a cycle bridge somewhere else. Would be oversized for that purpose, but might still be cheaper than building an entirely new span.


Has been considered (last year) -- But it hasn't carried any serious weight for a few years, which made the structure unsafe (conclusion of a technical report).
Scrapping was the only option left.


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## ChrisZwolle

A month ago, the Netherlands Environmental Assessment Agency published a report with a conclusion that less traffic congestion is the long-term effect of the covid-19 pandemic. And that fewer investment in the road network would be needed.









Minder drukte in de spits is mogelijk grootste langetermijneffect van pandemie


Meer thuiswerken als gevolg van de corona-pandemie leidt naar verwachting ook op de langere termijn tot minder files. Dat signaleert het Planbureau voor de Leefomgeving op basis van data-onderzoek en uitvoerige gesprekken met thuiswerkers. Het woon-werkverkeer belast vooral de spits en een...




www.pbl.nl





This report has not aged well. The homeoffice mandate was lifted later that month and traffic congestion has returned to pre-pandemic levels basically from week one. This morning had over 700 kilometers of traffic jams. 

There still is a considerable amount of homeoffice, especially in (semi) government. Google mobility data also shows that trips to working locations is still below pre-pandemic levels. 
But the expert judgment that this would lead to noticeable less congestion has basically been proven wrong from day one. There were commentaries in the media from 'experts' that they were all surprised by how quickly so much congestion has returned. However the signs were already there in areas where the homeoffice mandate was lifted earlier (Germany, Paris, the United States).


----------



## Slagathor

I read in the Financial Times that the discrepancy between people still working-from-home and traffic already being back to pre-pandemic levels, can be explained by the fact that a lot of former train riders bought cars during the pandemic. They'd rather be in their own car than share an enclosed space with strangers. That makes sense to me.


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## j_brawo

M-NL said:


> Repurposing an old bridge span that is no longer fit for purpose and served its life span is pretty much impossible. I'm afraid scrapping and recycling the materials is the only option. What else could you do?


There was a very interesting case in 2000s in the city of Poznan (Poland).

It used to be a bridge saint Roch over the Warta river along the city street called Mostowa. After the WWII the bridge was reconstructed in 1949 and put into service as a road bridge.
In the late nighties the city council has decided that the tramway line will be constracted from the city center to the Kórnicka junction along the Mostowa street, passing the Warta river using the saint Roch bridge. The technical verification and test of the current bridge have been proceed and it came to the conclusion that the old bridge is to small, narrow and not durable enough for the new purpose - handle the pedestrian, car, bike and tramway traffic. The decision has been made that the completely new bridge will be constructed but keeping the unique shape of the old one.
The interesting thing was what has decided to to do with the old span. Instead of scrap it, it was decided to move it along Warta river, to the new place. After complete renovation the old span of saint Roch bridge, has become the bishop Jordan bridge (legendary first bishop of Poland from X century), located in the new place. Now it is a pedestrian and bike bridge over Cybina river, linking two very old parts of the Poznan city - Ostrów Tumski island where the cathedral is, and Srodka district. The bridge is very popular among loved couples who put on this bridge the padlocks as the symbol of their love 

Some photos:

Old saint Roch bridge in nigthies









New saint Roch bridge constructed in 2004









The old span of saint Roch during moving action from old location to the new one
















During the relocation the old span had to be moved over the existing very wide Mieszko I bridge









The completly renovated old span of saint Roch bridge as the new bishop Jordan bridge in the new location.

































Love padlocks


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Slagathor said:


> I read in the Financial Times that the discrepancy between people still working-from-home and traffic already being back to pre-pandemic levels, can be explained by the fact that a lot of former train riders bought cars during the pandemic. They'd rather be in their own car than share an enclosed space with strangers. That makes sense to me.


The media talks about this a lot, but this effect is not actually happening according to CBS data. The average annual growth of the number of passenger cars since 2016 was +138,000 per year. In the pandemic year 2020, this was +116,000, so the number of cars actually grew a little slower than pre-pandemic.









Hoeveel personenauto’s zijn er in Nederland?


Aantal personenauto's in Nederland naar brandstofsoort, soort bezit, leeftijd voertuig en leeftijd eigenaar




www.cbs.nl





I think many experts are in a 'static Netherlands' mindset, they don't seem to take into account the regular year-on-year growth of population and the effect it has on traffic volumes. The Netherlands is growing by almost a million people per decade. All these people have mobility needs, and most of this will be fulfilled by a car as per usual.

The strong population growth and increasing number of cars will dampen the long-term effect of working from home on traffic congestion. 

The CBS data also shows that all this media and expert talk about private lease and car sharing is not really taking off in the real world. The share of business-owned cars is actually declining. Or in other words: the number of privately owned cars is growing substantially faster than those in a lease or carsharing programme.

The biggest change in the Dutch automotive industry is not the introduction of electric vehicles, but the rapidly increasing ownership of older vehicles (15-25 years old). Their share has doubled from 10 to 20% in just 10 years time. However because the total car fleet has grown, their real number has increased by 2.3 times from 787,000 to 1,812,000 vehicles being in that age range.


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## Attus

Slagathor said:


> I read in the Financial Times that the discrepancy between people still working-from-home and traffic already being back to pre-pandemic levels, can be explained by the fact that a lot of former train riders bought cars during the pandemic. They'd rather be in their own car than share an enclosed space with strangers. That makes sense to me.


I don't think so, it would be a lot of new/used sold cars, what would be noticable in statistics. 
However, there can be several people having a car but not using it for daily commuting (Chris used to have good statistics about it), but now changing their mind and commuting by car. 

In Western Germany we usually see this: a train has, for example, 100 passengers. The track must be refurbished, or for any other reason two weeks long trains are replaced by a bus service. The replacement buses have no 100 passengers, but maximal 40. The rest takes the car. And, if fore example 15 of those 60 people take the car nowadays because of Covid, it may be a significant plus on the roads.


----------



## Slagathor

Attus said:


> I don't think so, it would be a lot of new/used sold cars, what would be noticable in statistics.
> However, there can be several people having a car but not using it for daily commuting (Chris used to have good statistics about it), but now changing their mind and commuting by car.
> 
> In Western Germany we usually see this: a train has, for example, 100 passengers. The track must be refurbished, or for any other reason two weeks long trains are replaced by a bus service. The replacement buses have no 100 passengers, but maximal 40. The rest takes the car. And, if fore example 15 of those 60 people take the car nowadays because of Covid, it may be a significant plus on the roads.


Coincidentally the Financial Times had another article on this today and it mentioned:

"Of the 46.000 travelers who participated in a large survey, some 15% said they bought a new mode of transportation during the pandemic", Dutch Railways researcher Mark van Hagen (59) explained. "Of those 15%, some 10% said they're using that mode of transportation to get to work instead of the train."​
So that doesn't seem like a very big group at all.


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## g.spinoza

Slagathor said:


> Coincidentally the Financial Times had another article on this today and it mentioned:
> 
> "Of the 46.000 travelers who participated in a large survey, some 15% said they bought a new mode of transportation during the pandemic", Dutch Railways researcher Mark van Hagen (59) explained. "Of those 15%, some 10% said they're using that mode of transportation to get to work instead of the train."​
> So that doesn't seem like a very big group at all.


"They BOUGHT" excludes all the people that already had a car but never used it to commute, until now.


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## ChrisZwolle

Slagathor said:


> So that doesn't seem like a very big group at all.


If it is 10% of all train travelers, with the train having a 10% share, this means that around 1% of all travelers would have shifted to another mode (mostly the car I presume).

Train commuting tends to be over longer distances. If your job is 60 or 80 kilometers one-way, you might not shift to driving every single day, but maybe they do for 1 or 2 days and work the rest from home.

The issue with long commutes in the Netherlands is the low compensation for (semi) government employees. There is often a cap per month, which may not even cover the cost of driving 2 days per week, while the train subscription is usually refunded in full.


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## Theijs

ChrisZwolle said:


> The issue with long commutes in the Netherlands is the low compensation for (semi) government employees. There is often a cap per month, which may not even cover the cost of driving 2 days per week, while the train subscription is usually refunded in full.


Correct, no reimbursement of max € 0,19 / kilometer. And sometimes public transport is covered to max 60 or 65 km distance by public authorities.


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## ChrisZwolle

Most employers do pay € 0.19 per kilometer, but the total monthly reimbursement is often capped, sometimes as low as € 40 - 50, or around € 100 - 150. 

If you live 50 kilometers from work, the weekly reimbursement would be € 95. So the other three+ weeks per month can be at your own expense. 

Government employees usually get the full cost of a train commute reimbursed (which is typically considerably higher than the maximum cap for driving). A previous employer I worked for had a cap of € 80 per month for driving, but fully covered the cost of commuting by train, which is over € 300 per month. 

The monthly cap is less of an issue if you commute into the office for only 2 days per week and work the rest from home.


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## g.spinoza

I don't get all this.
Why are such long commutes incentivized?


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## ChrisZwolle

Well, they're not (except by train). A reimbursement of € 0.19 per kilometer and a cap of say, € 100 per month, means that anything beyond 12 kilometers one way is at your own expense. (in the old model of commuting 5 days per week).

Higher reimbursement exists for business trips in your own car, though people that travel a lot for work usually get a lease car from their employer.


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## g.spinoza

ChrisZwolle said:


> Well, they're not (except by train). A reimbursement of € 0.19 per kilometer and a cap of say, € 100 per month, means that anything beyond 12 kilometers one way is at your own expense. (in the old model of commuting 5 days per week).
> 
> Higher reimbursement exists for business trips in your own car, though people that travel a lot for work usually get a lease car from their employer.


Keep in mind that, in Italy, reimbursement for commute is exactly equal to zero.
I wanted to save money? I found a home closer to work, and now I commute by bike.


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## Neverworld

You are right, it's absolutely crazy that the government incentives travel. Sure companies can put a cap on how much reimbursement they pay out per month but many don't and a cap is not mandatory. If anything, the scheme should be in reverse, i.e. reimburse employees living closeby since its better for mental health, accident rates, infrastructure expenditure as well as the planet.


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## M-NL

This begs the question: In the Netherlands an employer may reimburse commute expenses up to € 0,19/km. In Italy there is no commute expense reimbursement. How is this done in other countries? Or is it just part of your regular salary? Or are company cars more common?


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## g.spinoza

M-NL said:


> This begs the question: In the Netherlands an employer may reimburse commute expenses up to € 0,19/km. In Italy there is no commute expense reimbursement. How is this done in other countries? Or is it just part of your regular salary? Or are company cars more common?


I think in Germany there is no reimbursement as well? When I worked there in 2011 I was not offered such a deal.


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## Ni3lS

There are tax deals in place for company cars with cards for petrol (Tankkarte) which you can also use privately, alternatively I know you can also negotiate it with your employer for public transport.


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## ChrisZwolle

Neverworld said:


> If anything, the scheme should be in reverse, i.e. reimburse employees living closeby since its better for mental health, accident rates, infrastructure expenditure as well as the planet.


That's an ideal world, but it's not reality.

People have various reasons for their commuting distance. Such as the housing prices and working location of the spouse. It's not uncommon for a household to live in a different town or city than where either spouse works. Moving closer to one work location might mean a longer commute for the other. And not everyone wants to move every time they change jobs, especially in today's society where you don't work for the same employer for 40 years.

The € 0.19 per kilometer reimbursement is a pretty standard compensation, most employers pay it. It's usually the lowest-paying jobs that do not include such a compensation. On the other end of the spectrum are those with a company car + fuel card, so they don't have to pay anything for transportation, including all of their private travels.


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## 54°26′S 3°24′E

In Norway it is not common for employers to reimburse commuter costs to their permanent work place. Why should they? A worker is not more efficient the longer the commute is.

However, employees that are ordered around the country, or internationally, to temporary locations, e. g. construction workers, are normally reimbursed. And if you are a person with special skills you can sometimes negotiate a deal - at least with some private employers.

Costs for commuting above approximately 15000 km per year can be deducted from your income before taxation, but there is also an upper threshold somewhere. This arrangement is likely to become more generous with our new government. The philosophy behind the tax reduction is that only net income should be taxable.


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## Nikolaj

In Denmark you receive a government payed compensation for commuting (if commuting more than 24 km per day, i.e. 12 km each way). The compensation, which in fact is a tax deduction, equals 7 Eurocents per km. The tax compensation is payed no matter you drive yourself, is a passenger in a car, go by bus, train, walk or go by bike. You are payed the compensation of Euro 0,07 for the first 96 km per day (above 24 km), i.e. 48 km each way, and over that it is half the rate (unless you live in certain outlying areas. In that case the rate remains the high one). If you have to use a ferry or pay bridge toll across The Great Belt Bridge the toll rate/ferry ticket is compensated as well.

The argument for the commuting compensation, is that it creates a flexible and mobile workforce. You are willing to take up a job even if it is not located nearby, and that is considered a benefit to society. The system is quite easy to administer, The Tax authorities knows where you live, and where you're ordinary workplace is, and then the compensation is automatically calculated and deducted from your tax. You don't have to show any documentation for what mean of transport you are using, as it is given irrespectable of mean of transport.


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## Neverworld

ChrisZwolle said:


> That's an ideal world, but it's not reality.
> 
> People have various reasons for their commuting distance. Such as the housing prices and working location of the spouse. It's not uncommon for a household to live in a different town or city than where either spouse works. Moving closer to one work location might mean a longer commute for the other. And not everyone wants to move every time they change jobs, especially in today's society where you don't work for the same employer for 40 years.
> 
> The € 0.19 per kilometer reimbursement is a pretty standard compensation, most employers pay it. It's usually the lowest-paying jobs that do not include such a compensation. On the other end of the spectrum are those with a company car + fuel card, so they don't have to pay anything for transportation, including all of their private travels.


That all could be but I don't see why the government needs to proactively accomodate this lifestyle. I don't need the government to necessarily forbid commuting but why (effectively) subsidize it when there's so many negative externalities? Employers could then still choose to pay the 19 cents/km just income taxed like the rest of the wage, I don't see what's wrong with this.


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## Suburbanist

The physical layout of the Netherlands is conductive to supercommutes.

Also, the way both social housing (which does not mean house for poor people) and cointrolled rent housing works mean many young couples end up facing gigantic costs is they decide to move everytime someone changes jobs.


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## Nikolaj

Neverworld said:


> That all could be but I don't see why the government needs to proactively accomodate this lifestyle. I don't need the government to necessarily forbid commuting but why (effectively) subsidize it when there's so many negative externalities? Employers could then still choose to pay the 19 cents/km just income taxed like the rest of the wage, I don't see what's wrong with this.


Because it in an overall perspective is beneficial to society and to the economy. With a mobile workforce, who are more willing to move around and take a job whereever it is, you generate more productivity, more wealth and more employment. As long as the benefits of a mobile and flexible worksforce exceeds the external cost of more transport, more congestion and more CO2 emissions, it is a good idea to support commuting.


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## ChrisZwolle

Suburbanist said:


> The physical layout of the Netherlands is conductive to supercommutes.


The Netherlands lacks really large urban areas (like Paris, London, Los Angeles, etc.), so there aren't the typical exurb to city commutes. But the Dutch commute between towns and cities. There is almost as much traffic going out of Utrecht as there is inbound traffic on the motorway system in the morning. This means that the average commute is relatively long, even with all the people cycling.

Additionally, the relatively short overall distances mean that contractors or salespeople can travel to almost every city without having to find overnight accommodation near their jobsite. It's not uncommon for contractors in Overijssel province to drive to Amsterdam or The Hague for work in the morning and drive back in the afternoon. A1 and A28 are always notorious for the load of vans going westbound in the morning and eastbound in the afternoon.

Business trips are almost always single-day trips to any city in the country. It's not that uncommon for people to log 500+ kilometers in a day for work, despite being in a small country.


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## ChrisZwolle

A diesel leak on a ramp of A67 at Venlo. How bad can that be? Well, quite bad...


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## ChrisZwolle

And it's fixed the same day


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## ChrisZwolle

Photos of a car crashing into a signage mount. This type of mounting is designed to minimalize damage and injury, which obviously succeeded with this crash. This means that such signs can be placed in the obstacle-free zone along a motorway and it also eliminates the need for continuous crash barriers. This is beneficial for traffic flow because car crashes are more likely to end on the grassy shoulder instead of all over the highway. It also makes it less likely that a crashing vehicle will ricochet back onto the highway into traffic. This reduces third-party involvement, cleanup time and lane closures.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454802158663131141


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## sven_engelen

Although it's not a highway, I still like to share this one. The N69 runs from Eindhoven towards the Belgian border where the N74 goes through to Hasselt. The N69 ran through the towns of Waalre and Valkenswaard causing a lot of pollution and congestion. A new N69 was constructed and is finally opened. A 2x1 lane expressway that now connects to the A67 in Veldhoven. 
The red line in the map is the old N69 and the yellow line is the new N69:








Source: Omroepbrabant
I've been to the new N69 and took it on film. This is the result:


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## da_scotty

Is it me or do the lanes look extremely narrow, even for dutch standards.


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## MichiH

sven_engelen said:


> Although it's not a highway, I still like to share this one. The N69


N69 *is* a highway for sure!


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## Attus

Traffic lanes look extreme narrow. It must be very uncomfortable to drive a truck or a bus here.


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## ChrisZwolle

The Dutch government has allocated € 25 million to make non-motorway _rijkswegen _(national roads) safer. These are mostly two-digit N-roads (but not N34 and N69).

They did a study to estimate the cost to add a median barrier on these roads. The estimated cost is € 650 million because virtually every road would need to be widened. Traffic safety is very important... If you can improve it with a traffic sign. If it costs money, it's suddenly not feasible... Needless to say, this is not going to happen. Most have a cost/benefit ratio below 1, sometimes even 0.0.

RSW = regionale stroomweg (express roads with mostly a 100 km/h speed limit, these are typically two-lane, grade-separated roads)
GOW = regional main road (surface roads, usually 80 km/h, at-grade).

Baten/kosten = cost/benefit. 
Haalbaarheid = feasibility (1=best, 3=worst)
Investeringskosten = investment cost


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## Stuu

sven_engelen said:


> Although it's not a highway, I still like to share this one. The N69 runs from Eindhoven towards the Belgian border where the N74 goes through to Hasselt. The N69 ran through the towns of Waalre and Valkenswaard causing a lot of pollution and congestion. A new N69 was constructed and is finally opened. A 2x1 lane expressway that now connects to the A67 in Veldhoven.
> The red line in the map is the old N69 and the yellow line is the new N69:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Omroepbrabant
> I've been to the new N69 and took it on film. This is the result:


It looks from the video that the land take, earthworks and bridges have all been built wide enough for a two lane road, so a big proportion of the expense of building it as two lanes has been spent without the benefit. Is this some trick to get it through planning and then the extra lane can be easily added?


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## Gereke

Not a chance it will get an extra lane.


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## Cookiefabric

@Stuu Your comment was also made on the Dutch Wegenforum.
The reason that it's only 2x1 is the result of a Negotiation between a local green foundation ("save the beekdal & river Dommel") and the province of Noord-Brabant. 

The province promised to change the routing and keep it to 2x1, while the green promised to stay out of any shape of protest
Welcome the country/land where "_polderen_" (or "_Polder model_") is still common practice


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## sven_engelen

Cookiefabric said:


> The province promised to change the routing and keep it to 2x1, while the green promised to stay out of any shape of protest


Let's say that promises can be broken. There is a space reservation for 2x2 lanes which means it can be easily widened if the province wants to in a few years.


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## ChrisZwolle

Oops


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456599134778056709
There also was a report that the number of crashes with crash attenuators is far higher this year so far than all previous years. People are not paying attention. Some are having a Zoom or Teams meeting while driving. I also wonder if the 100 km/h speed limit plays a role, 100 km/h feels unnaturally slow on a motorway designed for 120-130. Maybe people are going to toy around with their phone or infotainment system. 

The 100 km/h speed limit also causes some problems, passing takes way longer so there is excessive queueing near trucks, people do not maintain distance because if you do, some other bloke will move into that space. This all leads to abrupt and unexpected braking, resulting in crashes like these. 

Motorway driving in the Netherlands is really annoying now, especially on four lane motorways, it feels like a traffic jam moving at 80-100 km/h, with intermittent stretches of open road. This occurs for much of the day and also on weekends. Rush hour may even flow better at times because there are more people driving over the limit.


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## RipleyLV

From my personal observation the driving quality has decreased since the start of the pandemic, at least here. Not that it was good than before, but noticeably gotten worse since then...


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## ChrisZwolle

The days are numbered for the Vianen Bridge. It will be removed this weekend.


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## ChrisZwolle

The removal of the Vianen Bridge was cancelled at the last moment, as an important line from the pontoon broke away and the contractor didn't think it was safe to continue. The weather was rough and water levels fluctuating due to strong winds (this part of the river still has some tidal influences despite its location far inland). A new date will be scheduled, depending on tides, water levels & weather.


The Emmen-West interchange (N34/N391) is scheduled to open to traffic on 12 November. I took part in an excursion to the project this weekend.

1. The N391 to N34 south connector has a major visual narrowing, the old bridge has different spans than the new bridges so there wasn't much room to design a connector road through it. The road on the right is a local road not connected to either N34 and N391.

N34 - N391 Knooppunt Emmen-West 01 by European Roads, on Flickr

2. The north to east flyover. This will carry traffic from N34 and indirectly N381 to Emmen. The blue and brown segments illustrate the soil types in this area. It is also lit up at night though I did not see that.

N391 Knooppunt Emmen-West 07 by European Roads, on Flickr

3. The lines in the concrete illustrate the ancient farming techniques in this area. The architect designed this, this is not the result of segmental concrete pouring.

N34 - N391 Knooppunt Emmen-West 08 by European Roads, on Flickr

4. Side view of the flyover.

N34 - N391 Knooppunt Emmen-West 11 by European Roads, on Flickr

5. A hectometer marker of Drenthe province.

N34 - N391 Knooppunt Emmen-West 16 by European Roads, on Flickr

6. The flyover is quite wide for a single lane, because of sightlines. There will be a left shoulder. The barrier on the left is also lower than on the right.

N34 - N391 Knooppunt Emmen-West 18 by European Roads, on Flickr

7. The four lane N34. The bridge on the right was designed in the 1960s, the bridge on the left is designed according to present-day 100 km/h standards. The right bridge is quite a bit wider, apparently designed as one side of a possible future motorway. N33 was also designed like this when it was a single carriageway road.

N34 - N391 Knooppunt Emmen-West 23 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## Wilhem275

A question about bike lanes priority.

It seems to me that, whenever a bike lane crosses a road, priority signalization is always made explicit.

Can be either in favour of bikes:











or in favour of motorized traffic:











Is it actually always present, one way or another? Or can a crossing be left without prioritization, and what's the rule then?

In other words, can a driver or cyclist know for sure they have priority just by the fact that their lane is not limited by the triangle markings?


Also, are there fixed criteria to choose among those solutions (like, urban or countryside environment) or it just depends on context?


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## ChrisZwolle

If no priority is indicated, priority would be to the right. However I'm not sure if I've ever seen that in a bike lane crossing situation. 

In most of the Netherlands, cyclists tend to have priority within city limits and no priority outside city limits.


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## Slagathor

Wilhem275 said:


> A question about bike lanes priority.
> 
> It seems to me that, whenever a bike lane crosses a road, priority signalization is always made explicit.
> 
> Can be either in favour of bikes:
> 
> View attachment 2345316
> 
> 
> 
> or in favour of motorized traffic:
> 
> View attachment 2345331
> 
> 
> 
> Is it actually always present, one way or another? Or can a crossing be left without prioritization, and what's the rule then?
> 
> In other words, can a driver or cyclist know for sure they have priority just by the fact that their lane is not limited by the triangle markings?
> 
> 
> Also, are there fixed criteria to choose among those solutions (like, urban or countryside environment) or it just depends on context?


I don't think I've ever seen a crossing without markings outside the built-up areas. It simply isn't done. When they build a bike path, they add markings.


----------



## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> If no priority is indicated, priority would be to the right. However I'm not sure if I've ever seen that in a bike lane crossing situation.











Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.nl


----------



## Suburbanist

Slagathor said:


> I wonder what role the housing market is playing in all of this. The Dutch housing market is insanely overheated and during the pandemic, this pushed quite a few people to relocate from city apartments to houses on the countryside (or at least in smaller towns).
> 
> So, in theory, quite a few people moved further away from where their jobs are...


I have a colleague who relocated with her husband from hengelo to Otterlo such that they have the Hoge Veluwe wilderness in their backyards. He is keeping his job at an advanced manufacturing company.

Another colleague also on his 30s decided to move from a rental in Amsterdam Noord to Lelystad, with some eye rolling according to his social media from some older workers who own their houses in Amsterdam proper with cheap interest only mortgages from the 1990s. He now takes the train and lives in a new water-plentiful neighborhood. His wife got a job at a major hospital in Zwolle so it kinda makes sense their new location. He mentioned he had saved € 150.000 but still didn't find reasonably priced flats in good neighborhoods. They didn't want to move to the IJbrug area nor to the redevelopments around the ArenA/Bijlmer nor in Diemen


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## ChrisZwolle

Slagathor said:


> So, in theory, quite a few people moved further away from where their jobs are...


I think this plays a role, one that may be understated. Future first home buyers may also accept a longer travel distance due to the insane housing prices.

People who have moved during the pandemic have often done so on the basis that they wouldn't need to go to the office as often. However it remains to be seen whether this is a long-term trend. It seems logical to keep working from home, but short-term crisis effects on transportation have been mistaken for long-term trends in the past...

I've been traveling to the office for a few days this week and while traffic is a bit lighter than last month, it's still quite substantial. It won't require much growth to dampen the effect of working from home. 

The forecasted +9.5% growth to 2026 is really significant. Motorway traffic in 2019 was 72.9 billion vehicle kilometers. A growth of +9.5% puts that at 79.8 billion vehicle kilometers in 2026, a growth of +6.9 billion vehicle kilometers = 8.3 billion passenger kilometers. This is similar to almost half of all train travel in the Netherlands, added to the motorway system over only the next 5 years!


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## Pannyers

Here another video about traveling in The Netherlands.


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## ChrisZwolle

His perception on traffic congestion seems to be based on covid-19 pandemic traffic patterns. Traffic congestion was epicly bad in the Netherlands, especially before 2010, before many of the capacity expansions were completed. Traffic congestion dropped significantly after that and has not reached those levels again, though the rapid population growth has pushed some of the remaining outdated corridors to a high congestion level.

The large-scale expansion of motorway capacity is the reason why rush hour nowadays doesn't stretch into late morning and early afternoon anymore. Traffic is usually pretty fluid after 9 p.m. and before 4 p.m. This used to be considerably worse, the difference with Belgium in this aspect is striking.

The 100 km/h speed limit and increase in off-peak traffic has resulted in a poor traffic flow though, it often feels like the only fluid traffic is later in the evening and at night. Most of the rest is dense traffic going bumper to bumper in a 90-100 km/h convoy. Especially on four lane motorways where left lane hoggers plug up traffic, which has gotten significantly worse since they lowered the daytime speed limit.

Otherwise I agree that driving in the Netherlands isn't so bad. The roads are well-maintained, urban traffic is mostly tolerable and it helps that we don't have very large cities, which is a key reason why cycling is an option for many urban trips. You can see this factor diminishing in large spread out cities like Rotterdam.


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## Suburbanist

What's the prognosis on the lower speed limit?


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## PovilD

ChrisZwolle said:


> His perception on traffic congestion seems to be based on covid-19 pandemic traffic patterns. Traffic congestion was epicly bad in the Netherlands, especially before 2010, before many of the capacity expansions were completed. Traffic congestion dropped significantly after that and has not reached those levels again, though the rapid population growth has pushed some of the remaining outdated corridors to a high congestion level.
> 
> The large-scale expansion of motorway capacity is the reason why rush hour nowadays doesn't stretch into late morning and early afternoon anymore. Traffic is usually pretty fluid after 9 p.m. and before 4 p.m. This used to be considerably worse, the difference with Belgium in this aspect is striking.
> 
> The 100 km/h speed limit and increase in off-peak traffic has resulted in a poor traffic flow though, it often feels like the only fluid traffic is later in the evening and at night. Most of the rest is dense traffic going bumper to bumper in a 90-100 km/h convoy. Especially on four lane motorways where left lane hoggers plug up traffic, which has gotten significantly worse since they lowered the daytime speed limit.
> 
> Otherwise I agree that driving in the Netherlands isn't so bad. The roads are well-maintained, urban traffic is mostly tolerable and it helps that we don't have very large cities, which is a key reason why cycling is an option for many urban trips. You can see this factor diminishing in large spread out cities like Rotterdam.


I think the main message from him that you don't have stroads, wide streets with too many unsafe junctions and no alternative means of transportation. Popular in U.S., Canada. ...and actually USSR too, where infrastructure was build for tanks (literally), but comfortable infrastructure for pedestrians was more or less ignored. Pedestrian streets were seen as a luxury there, only few existed back then, maybe becoming more popular in cities only in mid 1980s, and only in the city center.

Expansion of motorways probably not too bad thing, but I think there should be limit on population density too. Not to be suburbia of an typical U.S. city, but also no need to be densest parts of Hong Kong too. The Netherlands is relatively small country with a large population. I think, in ideal World, population should be more evenly spread in reasonable-sized clusters.

I don't know how the Netherlands will solve overpopulation problem, but I do like that Netherlands doesn't have too large cities either. This makes me think if we need really large cities 

---
Btw, I find population density of South Scandinavia, Northern parts of Poland, parts of France as best fitting for me personally, but it could be just me.


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## ChrisZwolle

Stroads are a pretty bad development from pretty much any perspective. They are poor for traffic flow, have a poor access to non-motorists and have a very poor safety record. I was recently researching a stretch of US 17 in Wilmington, North Carolina. It had 200 access and exit points on a 13 kilometer stretch, in each direction! That is 400 conflict points, or 1 every 33 meters. Plus regular traffic lights. This type of roads don't really exist in the Netherlands.


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## ChrisZwolle

*Col du Pays Flevo*

(N307 at the Overijssel/Flevoland border).


N307 Roggebotbrug 21-11-2021 01 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## The Wild Boy

ChrisZwolle said:


> His perception on traffic congestion seems to be based on covid-19 pandemic traffic patterns. Traffic congestion was epicly bad in the Netherlands, especially before 2010, before many of the capacity expansions were completed. Traffic congestion dropped significantly after that and has not reached those levels again, though the rapid population growth has pushed some of the remaining outdated corridors to a high congestion level.
> 
> The large-scale expansion of motorway capacity is the reason why rush hour nowadays doesn't stretch into late morning and early afternoon anymore. Traffic is usually pretty fluid after 9 p.m. and before 4 p.m. This used to be considerably worse, the difference with Belgium in this aspect is striking.
> 
> The 100 km/h speed limit and increase in off-peak traffic has resulted in a poor traffic flow though, it often feels like the only fluid traffic is later in the evening and at night. Most of the rest is dense traffic going bumper to bumper in a 90-100 km/h convoy. Especially on four lane motorways where left lane hoggers plug up traffic, which has gotten significantly worse since they lowered the daytime speed limit.
> 
> Otherwise I agree that driving in the Netherlands isn't so bad. The roads are well-maintained, urban traffic is mostly tolerable and it helps that we don't have very large cities, which is a key reason why cycling is an option for many urban trips. You can see this factor diminishing in large spread out cities like Rotterdam.


So you're essentially saying that the Netherlands has to widen more motorways, and that by adding more lanes there will not be Induced demand issues and that it will actually solve traffic congestion? 

What kind of miracle is that? 


Usually most of the cities i know about (putting aside the Balkans and most European cities) who have widened most of their motorways, they have always ended with more and more increase of traffic and that has led to more and more congestion. USA is a big example of this, but it doesn't just have to be any North American city that's affected by this. 


Wouldn't it be better to instead downgrade motorways, which in term could force people to use alternatives, like taking the train? Drivers would get frustrated in traffic jams and next time will pick up an alternative option? Or maybe i am seeing things differently here? 

After all Induced demand or not, the Netherlands has an alternative to driving and that's taking the train. Whether widening a motorway would increase or speed up traffic flow, people who don't want to drive or sit in traffic jams they can just take the train instead. At least there are options here and that is great.


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## Slagathor

It's a spatial planning problem.

Lots of business parks sit at the end of motorway exits. There is no public transportation to these places. If you live in a suburb and you want to take PT to your office in a business park, it's basically impossible. Take this example:

1) Random commute by car (suburb to business park).
2) The same commute by PT.

That's 20 minutes versus 1 hour (roughly one third of which on foot). See what I mean?


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## Stuu

The Wild Boy said:


> After all Induced demand or not, the Netherlands has an alternative to driving and that's taking the train. Whether widening a motorway would increase or speed up traffic flow, people who don't want to drive or sit in traffic jams they can just take the train instead. At least there are options here and that is great.


Trains are very good at point to point travel, where there is a big flow like into a city centre. However, what the Netherlands has is a distributed population in smaller towns and cities, often without an obvious dominant flow, so there are many different flows with many different origins and destinations. Public transport, and especially rail, is not very good at that. 

The motorway widenings and reconstructions in the past decade were on a much bigger scale than most elsewhere. Normally a project might add a single new lane, but NL added two or three new lanes in places, which even the US doesn't often do


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## Koesj

The Wild Boy said:


> After all Induced demand or not, the Netherlands has an alternative to driving and that's taking the train. Whether widening a motorway would increase or speed up traffic flow, people who don't want to drive or sit in traffic jams they can just take the train instead. At least there are options here and that is great.


Just throwing some loose points out there: 


The NL already has (one of) the busiest train networks out there, going by a couple of metrics
The NL already has #1 worldwide usage of bicycles by modal share
The NL already has some of the busiest motorways in Europe

Notice the trend going on? Every transport mode is being used to its fullest and still it's not enough. Any easy alternative has already been picked bare over the last 30/40 years.


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## ChrisZwolle

The Wild Boy said:


> After all Induced demand or not


Maybe you've been watching too many 'induced demand fantasy' videos. Induced demand does exist but it's a small effect. Most traffic growth is not due to induced demand, but due to population growth, economic growth / restructuring, changing demographics, etc. Induced demand due to highway capacity expansion is wildly exaggerated by most of the media and certain video producers on YouTube. It has become a perpetuated myth.

The Netherlands is growing by almost a million people per decade, while its motorway capacity has already been constrained since the early 1990s.

The Netherlands has one of the best public transport systems in the world. The cycling infrastructure is unmatched. Yet most travel remains by car, the Netherlands is a good example of the limits those alternatives to driving have.


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## Attus

ChrisZwolle said:


> Maybe you've been watching too many 'induced demand fantasy' videos. Induced demand does exist but it's a small effect. Most traffic growth is not due to induced demand, but due to population growth, economic growth / restructuring, changing demographics, etc.


Basically I agree. However, I'd like to add something: in the Netherlands a gream amount of jobs are located around motorways but far away from any reasonable public transport service. It is not a Dutch thing, it exists everywhere in the world, but nowhere so excessive like in the Netherlands. Creating new jobs somewhere, far away from any train or metro station but near to a motorway exit, generates obviously car traffic.


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## ChrisZwolle

Most of those jobs near motorway exits are in logistics, light industry, or generally sites that require access by truck. Those won't move to a business district with train access.

In a way, this decentralization is actually good because it distributes traffic flows in many directions, instead of the classic rush to the city. Many motorways have almost the same traffic volume in both directions during rush hour, which means that motorway capacity is better utilized, though this model also has its limits.

Studies have also shown that transit-oriented development attract mostly workers who already commuted by train, they hardly pull any motorists to the train. This is also why expanding public transport doesn't reduce motorway traffic as the Wild Boy seems to believe. Public transport can be great into a city center but most motorway traffic is not going to or from a city center.


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## Suburbanist

Induced demand for car traffic doesn't make much sense unless it is something like a new tourist or leisure road.

In aggregated, across the whole population, few adults are actively looking to drive more than strictly needed just because there are wider roads.


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## PovilD

Not Just Bikes commentary is more relevant for USA, Canada, and East Bloc countries, especially former USSR, places like Lithuania, Ukraine, Russia with a bit of lag of implemented better infrastructure, although things do improving  One streets built for many cars, other one built streets for tanks, few trucks and buses.

Many countries just praised car as a status symbol, in front of bad-quality public transport and other means of transportation. Places like former East bloc just became too poor in comparison with West Europe, still living without a car. Poorer country means poorer maintenance of instrastructure and public transport. We have a good share of bad driving/transportation infrastructure here in The East, some people may get along with public transport or even cycling, but they don't, they always drive everywhere, even when they don't like to.

The Netherlands would be best example for achieving best transportation, but there is large opposition for narrowing streets (and they mean not streets itself, but just driving lanes which would help to sort traffic chaos). People want 70-90 km/h design streets in the city centre, but there are just not safe and municipality put 30-50 km/h signs, and people constantly need to look at speedometer, few dummies take a ride at that "design speed" too. Many people here are used to chaotic almost Third World-like traffic where same lane is used for parking, driving and other means, and don't want/understand changes. There are places in Kaunas, where driving exams are given, where is very hard to stick to the traffic rules due to weirdly parked cars on the lane.

Btw, understanding why we need safer design of streets do come, especially from people living around city centre, but is not the case (naturally) in suburbia and commieblocks districts.


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## Attus

Suburbanist said:


> few adults are actively looking to drive more than strictly needed just because there are wider roads.


They actually do it. For example, they move out of Rotterdam to a small town and commute daily by car. It there wasn't a motorway, only an always congested national road, they wouldn't do it. Or they apply for a job located 60kms away from their house, because they see, commuting is easy on the motorway. Or they think: it would be OK to commute by train, but there is a motorway, having free flow even in rush hour, it's better to drive. 
Induced demand does not mean "instead of sitting home and watching Netflix, I'll drive", but commuting longer or commuting by car instead of public transport.


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## Grzegorz.Janoszka

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Netherlands has one of the best public transport systems in the world. The cycling infrastructure is unmatched. Yet most travel remains by car, the Netherlands is a good example of the limits those alternatives to driving have.


You talk about averages, but there are many places which are void of any sensible public transport options. Example? Schiphol-Rijk - many office buildings with virtually zero options for public transport.
In my case - from Haarlem I can take bike to the station, train to Sloterdijk, then another train to Schiphol and then a bus to Schiphol-Rijk - all time travel over 1 hour. It is very similar from most parts of Amsterdam. But by car it is about 30 minutes in normal rush hours and 17-20 minutes not in peak times. So everybody comes by car and only the most desperate ones come by public transport.

I guess there are many other such places with office/industry buildings and no reasonable public transport. And I guess there is a fair share of people who prefer the freedom/safety of their own car instead of face masks and crowds on public transport.


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## Koesj

Grzegorz.Janoszka said:


> In my case - from Haarlem I can take bike to the station, train to Sloterdijk, then another train to Schiphol and then a bus to Schiphol-Rijk - all time travel over 1 hour. It is very similar from most parts of Amsterdam. But by car it is about 30 minutes in normal rush hours and 17-20 minutes not in peak times. So everybody comes by car and only the most desperate ones come by public transport.


I only ever visited Haarlem twice just this last year or so, but having to be near the Tempeliersstraat, any route app recommended bus 346/356 coming into the A'dam area either near Zuid or Schiphol. Is the latter on a bad timetable for you? A transfer at Schiphol Noord would mean 45 mins of public transport travel time total I'd think.



Attus said:


> They actually do it. For example, they move out of Rotterdam to a small town and commute daily by car. It there wasn't a motorway, only an always congested national road, they wouldn't do it. Or they apply for a job located 60kms away from their house, because they see, commuting is easy on the motorway. Or they think: it would be OK to commute by train, but there is a motorway, having free flow even in rush hour, it's better to drive.
> Induced demand does not mean "instead of sitting home and watching Netflix, I'll drive", but commuting longer or commuting by car instead of public transport.


If this argument was ever valid in the European economy with:
1. the highest degree of labor participation by quite some measures, leading to very few 'breadwinner' model households remaining and very often multiple trips to multiple employers each day from one address - not in the same town/city
2. one of the highest degrees of contract flexibility, leading to very few stable situations of people being able to choose where they work, as well as
3. one with a very peculiar set of spatial features, where there's smaller cities having expanded outwards predominantly in the postwar period for example, leading to car-centric mistakes at a higher incidence rate than the Ruhr, Midlands, or even Flanders up until not too long ago...
How is this valid now in our current housing market? I'd pose the above three factors are not in any way connected to consumer (ugh, okay let's say citizen) _choice_ since you can't exactly _choose _to live anywhere seeing as there are no real alternatives anymore. You grab what you can afford ASAP before someone else gets their grubby hands on it. And 'affording' housing means either overbidding by €50k plus at the very least or short-team sky-high priced shitty rental apartments.


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## ChrisZwolle

The Vianen Bridge was eventually shipped out of its position last evening, after the operation was stopped two weeks ago.


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## M-NL

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Netherlands is growing by almost a million people per decade, while its motorway capacity has already been constrained since the early 1990s.


The population of the Netherlands has indeed almost doubled since the second world war (from 9,2 million to 17,4 million).
For comparison the population of Belgium over the same period rose from 8,3 million to 11,5 million, Germany 66 million to 83 million, France from 39,7 to 65,1 million and the UK from 48 to 67 million.
Not only that, the Netherlands also has the highest population density in Europe (for 'full-size' countries, so excluding some island and city states, which added together account for less then the population of Rotterdam).

The interesting point is that no European regulation/directive seems to account for that fact. Putting twice the number of people in the same area will result in greater emission per unit of area, so the Netherlands has always had to work harder to comply. A little bit more leeway from the EU would be nice. Not to much though, because then procrastination by the politicians would result.


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## TM_Germany

Normally a higher population density works out to increased public transportation ridership, yet it seems like most traffic growth is in car traffic. I think Chris mentioned that passenger km of cars grew as much in recent decades as the total sum of train passenger km. That alone seems to suggest that new developement could have been much more transit-focused and as such much traffic on the roads could have been avoided.


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## M-NL

I think somebody mentioned it before (may even have been ChrisZwolle), but the essence is summarized in my signature: '_Public transport: Mode of transport that takes to much time to take you from the place you're not currently located, to the place you didn't want to go to, at a time that doesn't really suit you.'. _
Take my own commute as an example: I commute from a medium size city to a small village about 30 km away. Officially I need to clock in at work before 07:30. To do that by public transport I would have to depart at 00:30 (not a typo!) and that also includes a lot of walking. Want to arrive at around 08:00 or later? Connections are better, but the commute would still take almost 2 hours by public transport. By car it's around 35 minutes day round. Nobody will make such a commute by public transport, even by bike would be faster.
It's just an example that even in a country like the Netherlands, that is considered to have good public transportation, you can't provide a solution that works for everybody. There are places which lack demand to warrant regular service outside of day hours. A lot of Dutch people live outside of the Randstad, in lots of smaller villages where public transport is just bad.


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## TM_Germany

That's kind of making my point, though. Unless you live in an older developement, you could arguably have planned differently so that public transportation would have been more of an option.


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## Turf

The Wild Boy said:


> So you're essentially saying that the Netherlands has to widen more motorways, and that by adding more lanes there will not be Induced demand issues and that it will actually solve traffic congestion?
> 
> What kind of miracle is that?
> 
> 
> Usually most of the cities i know about (putting aside the Balkans and most European cities) who have widened most of their motorways, they have always ended with more and more increase of traffic and that has led to more and more congestion. USA is a big example of this, but it doesn't just have to be any North American city that's affected by this.
> 
> 
> Wouldn't it be better to instead downgrade motorways, which in term could force people to use alternatives, like taking the train? Drivers would get frustrated in traffic jams and next time will pick up an alternative option? Or maybe i am seeing things differently here?
> 
> After all Induced demand or not, the Netherlands has an alternative to driving and that's taking the train. Whether widening a motorway would increase or speed up traffic flow, people who don't want to drive or sit in traffic jams they can just take the train instead. At least there are options here and that is great.


Fitst of all I really like the Not just bikes channel! Great to get an outsiders view of what I consider normal.

Secondly I think many posts above perfectly explain why adding more lanes in a lot of occasions make perfectly sense. I work all over the Netherlands in industrial areas and would simply be not able to go to work without the car. Having public transportation investments for that kind of scenario makes no sense.

Your logic of removing highways could make sense in very specific situations (like most US big cities). However as ChrisZwolle can explain so well if there really is a bottleneck somewhere, then perhaps we should simply fix that. And fortunately they did fix a lot already this century both road and rail. The "induced demand" believers lost.


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## g.spinoza

Turf said:


> I work all over the Netherlands in industrial areas and would simply be not able to go to work without the car. Having public transportation investments for that kind of scenario makes no sense.


Which kind of scenario would that be? One in which everyone works everywhere?
I think yours is a very specific situation and the vast majority of people just commutes to the same place everyday. In such a scenario, transportation investments make a lot of sense.


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## Suburbanist

In practical terms, what the Netherlands could do to improve somehow usage of trains for longer distance commuting is a long shift of office locations near railway stations. The Netherlands has a surprise number of middle-of-nowhere office parks, although I got the impression most were built from the early 1980s to the late 1990s, so they all have a relatively similar look so to speak. I don´t think they are building new such structures.

Industrial parks are also often placed well outside any rail station.

Transit is viable when either end of the commute is near good infrastructure like a railway station. If both origin and destination are far apart, then train commute becomes tricky or just not feasible.


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## M-NL

TM_Germany said:


> That's kind of making my point, though. Unless you live in an older development, you could arguably have planned differently so that public transportation would have been more of an option.


It is indeed a supply and demand thing. The commute I make will never be in high demand, even if the development was planned better or public transport was routed different. It's just that it's pretty much a straight line by car or bike and a huge U shape by public transport with 3 changes and lots of waiting time in between. You can't win them all, neither should you want or need to. But you can strive to serve as much people as possible and make them use public transport. And that only happens to the degree I would like to see in the Randstad area. If I had lived in the Randstad area chances are I would be a regular public transport commuter. Why? Because the supply of public transport would suit my personal demand there. Outside the Randstad not so much.


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## Slagathor

Suburbanist said:


> In practical terms, what the Netherlands could do to improve somehow usage of trains for longer distance commuting is a long shift of office locations near railway stations. The Netherlands has a surprise number of middle-of-nowhere office parks, although I got the impression most were built from the early 1980s to the late 1990s, so they all have a relatively similar look so to speak. I don´t think they are building new such structures.
> 
> Industrial parks are also often placed well outside any rail station.
> 
> Transit is viable when either end of the commute is near good infrastructure like a railway station. If both origin and destination are far apart, then train commute becomes tricky or just not feasible.


Yes, exactly. Like I said: it's a spatial planning problem.

It's fixable, but requires a long-term vision and we have a prime minister who thinks "vision obscures the view" (his words).

We need to do what Japan did: cluster office buildings around major railway stations.

You obviously can't put factories in the middle of cities, but a lot of those motorway adjacent "business parks" in the Netherlands are really just offices. Folks sitting behind desks or - sometimes - working in laboratories or small operational spaces. Those should all be moved to locations immediately near railway stations. Preferably in high rise buildings.


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## M-NL

Slagathor said:


> You obviously can't put factories in the middle of cities, but a lot of those motorway adjacent "business parks" in the Netherlands are really just offices. Folks sitting behind desks or - sometimes - working in laboratories or small operational spaces. Those should all be moved to locations immediately near railway stations. Preferably in high rise buildings.


But that's the thing. A lot of factories can be put in the middle of cities. In fact they often used to be, because that's where the train stations were that were used to transport raw materials in and ship finished goods out. The post sorting centers all used to be at prime locations at the big stations, just because of railway acces. And what did most countries, not just the Netherlands, do? Move all that to areas outside the city devoid of good public transportation, just because there were little to no expansion options in the centers and to avoid noise and pollution complaints, even from industries that are not noisy and polluting at all. 
I also like the way Japan does it. All but heavy industry can be put pretty much anywhere:


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## ChrisZwolle

Slagathor said:


> We need to do what Japan did: cluster office buildings around major railway stations.


Those real estate prices are often too high for many smaller companies. Transit-oriented development tends to attract government institutions, precisely the audience who is already likely to use public transport because their employer (the goverment) usually pays for it. So these development do not really make much of a difference in traffic patterns overall.


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## Slagathor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Those real estate prices are often too high for many smaller companies. Transit-oriented development tends to attract government institutions, precisely the audience who is already likely to use public transport because their employer (the goverment) usually pays for it. So these development do not really make much of a difference in traffic patterns overall.


Exactly, that's why we need to change our planning code and offer financial incentives for companies to move from the middle-of-nowhere to near-a-railway-station. Either subsidize the build, cap or subsidize rent near railway stations, or increase the property tax on office space in remote business parks, that sort of thing.


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## ChrisZwolle

Well, a jobsite near a motorway exit in the 'middle of nowhere' from a public transport advocate point of view often means 'easily and conveniently accessible' for most people who actually work there. 

Even with traffic congestion, the average car commute is still considerably shorter than a train ride to a central location.


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## ChrisZwolle

I never realized how much higher the Juliana Canal in Limburg is than the surrounding area. Here's a photo from the bridge at Roosteren, looking north. A2 is to the right.

Water being higher than the surrounding land is usually something associated with Western Netherlands / Flevoland, not 'high and dry' Limburg. According to altitude data the canal is about 6-7 meters higher than the land around it. 

The Juliana Canal parallels the Maas / Meuse River. It is a 36 kilometer canal with large locks (CEMT class Va).


DSC_0277.jpg by Jeroen van Lieshout, on Flickr


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## Slagathor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Well, a jobsite near a motorway exit in the 'middle of nowhere' from a public transport advocate point of view often means 'easily and conveniently accessible' for most people who actually work there.


In my experience, most people drive to these places because there's simply no alternative. Every rush hour, there are a lot of people on the roads who don't really want to be there. People who don't particularly enjoy driving and people who don't particularly enjoy owning a car. 

If we give all those folks the option to take the train, it would seriously alleviate the pressure on the roads. And it would make driving a more enjoyable experience for those people who still prefer to take the car.

Even in Japan, office buildings near railway stations typically still offer underground parking. I'm not saying we have to stop people driving. I'm saying we should give them a choice.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Even with traffic congestion, the average car commute is still considerably shorter than a train ride to a central location.


Yeah, because of poor spatial planning.


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## ChrisZwolle

Slagathor said:


> In my experience, most people drive to these places because there's simply no alternative. Every rush hour, there are a lot of people on the roads who don't really want to be there. People who don't particularly enjoy driving and people who don't particularly enjoy owning a car.


Cars offer unprecedented access and mobility, available at any time, providing faster travel than any other mode for the overwhelming majority of trips it is used for. Far more jobs and places can be reached in 30 minutes than by any other transportation mode.

People may not like the traffic congestion (who does?) but I find it hard to believe there are large amounts of motorists out there who don't enjoy owning a car and the mobility it provides. For getting to work, getting to family & recreational purposes. And, as channels like NotJustBikes show, alternatives to driving are nowhere better than in the Netherlands, despite all the ranting about poor spatial planning and some kind of utopia where everyone works at a train station and lives in a high-rise building. People who really hate it have better alternatives than anywhere else.


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## Slagathor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Cars offer unprecedented access and mobility, available at any time, providing faster travel than any other mode for the overwhelming majority of trips it is used for. Far more jobs and places can be reached in 30 minutes than by any other transportation mode.


Again: I don't contest any of that.

It's not that people despise driving to work. It's that they don't like that driving to work is their only option 5 times a week.



ChrisZwolle said:


> People may not like the traffic congestion (who does?) but I find it hard to believe there are large amounts of motorists out there who don't enjoy owning a car and the mobility it provides. For getting to work, getting to family & recreational purposes. And, as channels like NotJustBikes show, alternatives to driving are nowhere better than in the Netherlands, despite all the ranting about poor spatial planning and some kind of utopia where everyone works at a train station and lives in a high-rise building. People who really hate it have better alternatives than anywhere else.


That's not true though. It would be true if our housing market was flexible, but that hasn't been the case for a long time now.

Our labor market offers tons of great opportunities. People can easily find a new and better job anywhere in the country. But then they can't move there because of the housing market. If your job is in a business park more than 10km (some would say 5km) from your home, cycling isn't a realistic option. Neither is public transit. That leaves the car. You have _no_ choice.

I'm in favor of giving people more options. I'm not anti-car. I like driving. But I don't like having to drive during the rush hour every goddamn day. I want to have a choice. Making that happen requires a change in our nation's spatial planning.


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## ChrisZwolle

The big gap at the site of the former Vianen Bridge:


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## Klausenburg

I work in factory near the German border and commute daily from Germany. Less then 10% of the employees live in the village where the factory. From talking with colleagues, it seems that the main pool of employees are more of less evenly split on a radius of 50 km... But hey somebody will pop up and tell us that public transport would work even in this case. Whatever.

EDIT: must mention that the many people in Netherlands don't live closer to their job because due to the the obsession of the same folks that argue for the public transport, Netherlands cannot have enough homes... But again, whatever.

NOTE: I could bet any amount that I did more in real life to promote the non-motorized ways of transport then more then at least 95% of people posting here... But whatever.

.


----------



## M-NL

ChrisZwolle said:


> Bus service is a money losing business. Provinces pay most of the cost, in most cases the provinces spend more on bus concessions than roads despite those buses generally carrying 1-3% of passenger kilometers. It's often the biggest single budget line for provinces.


The same can be said for roads: 20% of the roads probably carry 80% of the traffic. Some roads will only see a few vehicles per day and cost a lot to maintain. Should we remove them? We can't, because they serve a purpose. Yet with public transport we do cut service if spending gets to high. In theory government run public transport should be cheaper, because there is no need for the performing party to make a profit and to have lot of well paid executives. On the other hand government run public transport does suffer from the lack of competition. In the Netherlands government owned NS has an exclusive agreement for the main network, but for instance in Germany any operator could start a new long distance service or start a bus service as long as it doesn't directly compete with a government subsidised operator. And contrary to just the northern/eastern/southern branch lines in the Netherlands all regional services are tendered. I'm not saying that is optimal either. Of all the railway operators in Germany only DB has gotten corona support, causing others like Abellio to get into trouble. That wouldn't happen with government run public transport.


ChrisZwolle said:


> Bus service to new peripheral residential areas have never played a major role in getting a significant modal share. The people who move to such areas are generally middle class families, they typically do not use buses to get around, they use a car or bicycle. The cycling share in residential areas on the urban periphery is still relatively high (especially compared internationally).


If you don't offer public transport then all get is generally middle class families, because lower class often can't afford multiple cars and those areas are not intended for upper class families.


ChrisZwolle said:


> These bus lines to the urban periphery or rural areas have more of a social function to provide mobility for a small group of people who have no other option. The busiest bus lines are usually the ones connecting train stations with schools.


And those buses will be empty most of the day, which is unfortunate.
Public transport must find a way to shake the 'intended for people who have no other option' stigma. I still choose to believe that a lot more people would use public transport if it was a viable or even available option for them.


----------



## Grzegorz.Janoszka

M-NL said:


> And those buses will be empty most of the day, which is unfortunate.
> Public transport must find a way to shake the 'intended for people who have no other option' stigma. I still choose to believe that a lot more people would use public transport if it was a viable or even available option for them.


You can't shake away the truth. Bicycle is way faster than bus in most towns/cities, so buses become really the last options to consider.
I have been living in the same place for about 7 years, quite far from the city center. Every 15 minutes there is a bus (which goes quite a detour). In all those 7 years I took the bus only once, one way, when I was going to the center to buy a new bike (I came back by this very bike) and the weather was sh*t.
Why are you looking for ways to convince me to use buses? I don't want that, I don't need that, thank you. Don't solve the problems that don't exist.


----------



## g.spinoza

Grzegorz.Janoszka said:


> Why are you looking for ways to convince me to use buses? I don't want that, I don't need that, thank you. Don't solve the problems that don't exist.


You are not the center of the world. Just saying.


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## ChrisZwolle

Ooof... what a sign. This whole road (N300 around Heerlen) has some ridiculous signage.


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## Wilhem275

The point is to reduce car dependency in order to reduce overall volumes of traffic, especially in residential areas. And that is a problem which exists, it is felt by many people and can't just be dismissed because other people don't feel it.

Expanded highway capacity or poorly served business parks are not bad by themselves, the real issue is that they create a demand for road traffic that will mostly generate from existing residential areas not previously designed to cope with the extra volumes.

I too live in an area which grew by 20% in a matter of years and I see how the sprawl generated by unplanned growth is most taxing on pre-existing settlements. Quiet villages whose only central square suddenly became an obstacle on an artery with an AADT in the 10k and complemented by a bus network never updated from 1974.
Of course everybody hates traffic but God forbid if they'll do anything about it 

But the interesting dynamic, in my view, is how all the new suburban settlements were born with the promise of being free from the hassle of the city, while in practice their existence is fully oriented towards the main center.
That's were I stop buying the "car gives freedom" concept. We're all fine with the car being a good solution for extraurban to extraurban trips, but I can't use it as an excuse to hide the fact that suburban settlements's demand is all city oriented, and if I don't provide PT I'm just dumping new traffic on residential areas.


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## RipleyLV

ChrisZwolle said:


> Ooof... what a sign. This whole road (N300 around Heerlen) has some ridiculous signage.


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## g.spinoza

RipleyLV said:


>


Perfect visibility, empty motorway. The guy who almost rear-ends is as guilty as the guy who crawls... Maybe even more


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## ChrisZwolle

The Caland Bridge near Rozenburg (Port of Rotterdam) will have reduced capacity from today, with one lane closed in the direction of Rotterdam. There is a crack in the deck of the bridge, which they attempted to repair by welding it, but it reappeared. 

A major overhaul is scheduled for 2025. They are contemplating keeping one lane closed until that time. This bridge is located right next to the Thomassen Tunnel and it's mostly some local traffic + hazardous cargo which uses the bridge, so it won't create a big bottleneck.

The bridge was built in the late 1960s to provide access to new port areas. It opened on 6 June 1969. It was replaced by the Thomassen Tunnel for through traffic in 2004. It used to be a road + rail bridge but a new railroad was recently inaugurated, so this bridge has a much more limited function than in the past.


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## Cookiefabric

@ChrisZwolle The lane closure is in the direction of Brielle / Maasvlakte (Port of Rotterdam). The direction of Rotterdam has 2 lanes available.

-------------------

Please also note that this picture is older than 4 years -- A lot has changed in the meanwhile.
Also: The only reason that this bridge is moveable is also shown on the picture: Next to the bridge is a ferry connection to London-Dartford (freight only)


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## ChrisZwolle

Cookiefabric said:


> @ChrisZwolle The lane closure is in the direction of Brielle / Maasvlakte (Port of Rotterdam). The direction of Rotterdam has 2 lanes available.


Uh, no. You have it mixed up.


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## Cookiefabric

Ah, by tomorrow they're swapping the situation. Right now: 1 lane less in the direction of Brielle / Maasvlakte, from tomorrow 1 lane less in the direction of Spijkenisse/Rotterdam


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## Suburbanist

Those wind breakers next to the bridge are a sight to see in person...


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## ChrisZwolle

This part of the canal runs north-south and provides access to a port area that handles a large volume of car carriers. These ships have a high profile but are relatively light, making them top-heavy and susceptible to strong westerly winds. 

The wind breakers are 1750 meters long and 25 meters high.


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## keokiracer

Relevant:


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## sven_engelen

The A16 connects Rotterdam to Breda but it is also used to connect Europoort to Antwerp. Enjoy the video:


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## x-type

What does this sign mean?


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## Suburbanist

x-type said:


> What does this sign mean?
> 
> 
> View attachment 2453637


Area at risk for groundwater contamination. Requires extra precautions and immediate action in case of cargo or fluid spill from vehicles. If that happens a trucker should call that number and alert the water board authority immediately to prevent contamination of the drinking water supply. There are also indirectly areas more prone to flooding in absence of flood controls but it is a moot point, not the intent of the sign.


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## ChrisZwolle

German A57 will be co-signed along the Dutch A77 from the Rijkevoort interchange (A73) to the German border. A77 is a 10 kilometer long motorway.


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## x-type

Suburbanist said:


> Area at risk for groundwater contamination. Requires extra precautions and immediate action in case of cargo or fluid spill from vehicles. If that happens a trucker should call that number and alert the water board authority immediately to prevent contamination of the drinking water supply. There are also indirectly areas more prone to flooding in absence of flood controls but it is a moot point, not the intent of the sign.


As I thought so. I just looks little weird 
Our looks like this:


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## ChrisZwolle

These signs have no meaning for motorists in practice. Nobody would remember them, even in case of incident. I suppose it has more meaning to first responders.


N340 Zwolle - Dalfsen 17-11-2021 19 by European Roads, on Flickr


N340 Zwolle - Dalfsen 17-11-2021 18 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> These signs have no meaning for motorists in practice. Nobody would remember them, even in case of incident. I suppose it has more meaning to first responders.
> 
> 
> N340 Zwolle - Dalfsen 17-11-2021 19 by European Roads, on Flickr
> 
> 
> N340 Zwolle - Dalfsen 17-11-2021 18 by European Roads, on Flickr


Yes, like many signs from that froup of informational signs. Our code says only "the sign indicates the road passing trough water protection area where the drivers must drive especially carefully", nothing else.


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## ChrisZwolle

Also: I encourage you to try to pronounce 'grondwaterbeschermingsgebied'.


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## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> Also: I encourage you to try to pronounce 'grondwaterbeschermingsgebied'.


No need to, you know that you can give me just an ordinary dutch word, and I will pronounce it ghkeighkskhei


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## panda80

During my last trip to The Netherlands drove also on the A28 motorway, between Zwolle and Utrecht. It's a nice drive through The Veluwe sand dunes area, having also nice views to the Veluwe water channel and Flevoland. There are some beaches immediately near the motorway, nice way to cool during warm summer days. Found interesting how close the motorway is to the city center in Zwolle, just about 500m from the A28 to the entrance in the old city, quite unique in Europe. The motorway has just 2 lanes/direction, excepting the section through Zwolle, which has 3 lanes/direction, and the one between Amersfoort and Utrecht, also 3+3.


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## ChrisZwolle

A28 through Zwolle was an upgrade of a bypass built in 1939-1940. At that time, the bypass was built outside the urbanized area.

Zwolle was a small city until after World War II, it initially grew to the south and east. Growth to the north (past the motorway) started in the 1960s.

This map is from the 1950s:


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## Slagathor

panda80 said:


> Found interesting how close the motorway is to the city center in Zwolle, just about 500m from the A28 to the entrance in the old city, quite unique in Europe.


Roosendaal is somewhat similar, though it has a much less interesting historic center than Zwolle does.


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## ChrisZwolle

Roosendaal has a very similar history, A58 was built over a pre-war bypass. It also was a small town that only started to grow in the 1960s.


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## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> Roosendaal has a very similar history, A58 was built over a pre-war bypass. It also was a small town that only started to grow in the 1960s.


Breda and Tilburg have old bypass remnants left, but A58 did not use them when it was eventually built.


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## ChrisZwolle

Workers found 66 explosives from World War II when they reconstructed a road in the city of Den Bosch. Apparently there were 52 American mortars and 14 German mortars.

Explosives are regularly found at greenfield sites, but it's rather uncommon to find them under existing roads. Last year they found an almost intact V-1 rocket near A1 at Deventer.


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## 54°26′S 3°24′E

ChrisZwolle said:


> Roosendaal has a very similar history, A58 was built over a pre-war bypass. It also was a small town that only started to grow in the 1960s.


Nah, Rosendal is in Trondheim, Norway.


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## ChrisZwolle

A manufacturer of traffic signs has decided pretty much on its own that a new type of city limit sign is required for autonomous vehicles. Despite not having any official status, some municipalities have introduced them.

There is criticism that the 'end city limits' sign is poorly thought out, as the cross is only through the built-up area symbol and not the whole sign. It almost looks like a 'begin city limits' sign.


20211211_101625 by Benjamin van der Velden, on Flickr


20211211_101601 by Benjamin van der Velden, on Flickr


20211211_101540 by Benjamin van der Velden, on Flickr


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## da_scotty

There is one in Voorschoten as well for a few months year now on the N447, blurred by streetview:








Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.com


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## M-NL

ChrisZwolle said:


> A manufacturer of traffic signs has decided pretty much on its own that a new type of city limit sign is required for autonomous vehicles. Despite not having any official status, some municipalities have introduced them.
> 
> There is criticism that the 'end city limits' sign is poorly thought out, as the cross is only through the built-up area symbol and not the whole sign. It almost looks like a 'begin city limits' sign.


A simple fix would be to keep the current red line through the name. Something like this:








Modified from 20211211_101601 by Benjamin van der Velden, on Flickr


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## keokiracer

Just put the new white thingy as a white sign underneath a normal H1 sign.


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## sbondorf

keokiracer said:


> Just put the new white thingy as a white sign underneath a normal H1 sign.


In Denmark the enter/exit built-up area signs are all white, simply:










And it has been like “forever”, at least 50 years anyway. But does anybody know whether this “cityscape design” has its origins in Denmark?


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## M-NL

It's interesting when you take a look at a Comparison of European road signs.
Just like the traffic rules in general, you can clearly see they are standardised, yet they have enough subtle differences, that could cause automatic sign recognition to fail. Maybe the EU could focus on more uniform traffic signs (and rules).


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## DarkLoki

I see a lot of countries don't use the black on white city sign. What's the use for the Netherlands then 🤷‍♂️. The cars won't work in Germany of France? Are we going to adapt our infrastructure for autonomous cars, or are we going adapt cars for our infrastructure?


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## Klausenburg

ChrisZwolle said:


> *A2 Het Vonderen - Kerensheide*
> 
> The Council of State has dismissed the appeals against the widening of A2 between Het Vonderen (A73) and Kerensheide (A76) interchanges. The project can proceed. A2 will be widened to six lanes with shoulders. Pretty much the entire motorway will be rebuilt.


Any news or more details about this project ?


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## ChrisZwolle

It is scheduled to start in 2022. However they have not yet started the tender, so I'm guessing it may not start until the second half of 2022. They only held a market consultation along potential contractors in January 2021.


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## Attus

DarkLoki said:


> I see a lot of countries don't use the black on white city sign. What's the use for the Netherlands then 🤷‍♂️. The cars won't work in Germany of France? Are we going to adapt our infrastructure for autonomous cars, or are we going adapt cars for our infrastructure?


Cars have to be adapted. I have a German car (made in Germany and for Germany), it recognizes city signs in Germany, but not in the Netherlands or in Hungary. Right, since actually it's me that drives the car and I recognize the signs very well, it is not a big issue


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## ChrisZwolle

Gelderland province has decided to pull the plug on the N233 widening across the Rhine River Bridge at Rhenen. The cost estimate has escalated to € 140 million, Gelderland and Utrecht provinces would each pay about half. The original cost estimate was € 25 million for a reversible lane and € 66 million for a four lane widening (the preferred alternative). The cost estimate then went into the € 80 million, then over € 120 million and now up to € 140 million.

N233 is a major bottleneck, they built large amounts of new residential areas in the city of Veenendaal while N233 has not been upgraded. It's the only bridge in the area. The average traffic volume is 32,300 vehicles per day, which is very high for a two-lane road with traffic lights.

The bridge was built in 1957, it was originally a rail bridge. After the war, it was rebuilt as a road bridge.

I took some photos in April 2020:


N233 Rijnbrug Rhenen 04 by European Roads, on Flickr


N233 Rijnbrug Rhenen 06 by European Roads, on Flickr


N233 Rijnbrug Rhenen 08 by European Roads, on Flickr


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## M-NL

ChrisZwolle said:


> Gelderland province has decided to pull the plug on the N233 widening across the Rhine River Bridge at Rhenen. The cost estimate has escalated to € 140 million, Gelderland and Utrecht provinces would each pay about half. The original cost estimate was € 25 million for a reversible lane and € 66 million for a four lane widening (the preferred alternative). The cost estimate then went into the € 80 million, then over € 120 million and now up to € 140 million.
> 
> N233 is a major bottleneck, they built large amounts of new residential areas in the city of Veenendaal while N233 has not been upgraded. It's the only bridge in the area. The average traffic volume is 32,300 vehicles per day, which is very high for a two-lane road with traffic lights.


When were those earlier estimated made? I mean, the cost of building materials have gone up substantially, but not that much. But if you made those plans, say over ten years ago, yes, you shouldn't be surprised everything is bit more expensive now.

Now I don't know the strength of the current bridge (I thought at first, just like I thought you wrote, this current bridge used to be a rail bridge, hence should be very strong), but it seems wide enough to carry four lanes. Then hang the cycle paths from the sides or put a cycle bridge on top of the current bridge. That shouldn't be that expensive, right? But now that it turns out it always was a road bridge, it's probably not strong enough for that. So replacing the entire span would be a better idea, which is indeed very expensive.

But the big question is how long this current bridge will be able to cope with the traffic volume and heavier vehicles? It likely wasn't ever designed for this volume and weight and we have seen several examples of what could happen already.


ChrisZwolle said:


> The bridge was built in 1957, it was originally a rail bridge. After the war, it was rebuilt as a road bridge.


I was a bit confused what you meant here. A bridge originally built as a rail bridge in 1957, that was rebuilt as a road bridge after the war? What war?
But no, you meant a road bridge built in 1957, that replaced the original rail bridge that was built in 1880 and destroyed in 1940 and again in 1944.


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## ChrisZwolle

The bridge piers are from the original railroad bridge, but the actual span / deck was built in 1957, sorry for the confusion.

Which rises another question: since this bridge is nearing 65 years old, how long can it last anyway? The steel span design is similar to the Talbrücke Rahmede of A45 in Germany which is closed to traffic. This bridge has not seen that level of truck volume as the one in Germany, but still, if a replacement is due in the next 1-2 decades, the obvious choice would be to build a four lane bridge.


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## ChrisZwolle

Paving is underway in the new Corbulo Tunnel of N434 on the south side of Leiden.

Location: OpenStreetMap


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## da_scotty

Is there a planned open date?


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## Cookiefabric

Spring / Summer 2023 is mentioned. But it all depends on the testing work -- If that goes faster, late 2022 might also be possible


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## ChrisZwolle

N206 to Katwijk is also being reconstructed as a four lane road, partially below grade (which is quite complex in the Netherlands due to the soft soil and high ground water table). It's part of the same contract as the Corbulo Tunnel.


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## sven_engelen

The A12 in the Netherlands runs from The Hague to the German border via Utrecht and Arnhem. In this video I will take you from The Hague to Utrecht on the A12. Markable about the A12 are the Urban highway section and Prins Clausplein interchange which is a 4-level stack. A very unusual kind of interchange in Europe. Furthermore interesting is the seperated 2x4 lane section between Gouda and Woerden. The soil there is so weak that the A12 had to be built on 2 embankments or dikes. So after all, a very interesting highway!


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## MrAronymous

2 f ucks?
2 p ikes?
2 c unts?

The curiosity is killing me.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Dutch word for 'levee'. Or a dam that's not in water. Apparently it is blocked?


----------



## da_scotty

dikes probably....


----------



## PovilD

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Dutch word for 'levee'. Or a dam that's not in water. Apparently it is blocked?


Typed on Google Translate
If I'm correct that this is the word that start with d and the last two letters are "jk" ?

Just not feeling comfortable to type anything that might get asterixes.

Similar story as with one large sized cat breed from Maine I suppose.


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## sven_engelen

I meant dikes. Spelling mistake as I'm not a native English speaker. Dike with a y apparently is a slang for lesbian as far as i can see. I will edit the post


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## ChrisZwolle

The new Rutte IV government will be installed in the near future, almost a year after a caretaker government. 

The new government features the same parties (VVD+D66+CDA+CU) but most ministers and state secretaries will be new people, some relatively inexperienced. 

The new minister of Infrastructure & Water management is Mark Harbers (1969, VVD, center-right, conservative-liberal).

He is experienced in national government, having served as the State Secretary for Justice & Safety in the previous Rutte cabinet for 1.5 years. He had to resign in 2019 due to sending a report about crimes commited by asylum seekers where serious crimes were listed as 'other', giving the impression that they attempted to sweep it under the rug. 


The new state secretary for Infrastructure & Water management is Vivianne Heijnen (1983, CDA, center-right, conservative). 

She is currently an alderman for the municipality of Maastricht, focusing on economy and housing. She appears to have no experience in infrastructure. It is likely she'll become responsible for railway management.


----------



## Ryme Intrinseca

sven_engelen said:


> Prins Clausplein interchange which is a 4-level stack. A very unusual kind of interchange in Europe.


Indeed, in the classic configuration there are only six:

Den Hague, Netherlands
Madrid, Spain
Wetzlar, Germany
Bristol, UK
2 x London, UK

Or seven if you count the one in Athens, which is a bit dubious as it has toll booths so isn't freeflow.

There's also a stack-turbine hybrid on the Brussels ring road (another one there is incomplete), and a stack-windmill hybrid near Bilbao airport. But these are different things really.


----------



## Neverworld

sven_engelen said:


> The A12 in the Netherlands runs from The Hague to the German border via Utrecht and Arnhem. In this video I will take you from The Hague to Utrecht on the A12. Markable about the A12 are the Urban highway section and Prins Clausplein interchange which is a 4-level stack. A very unusual kind of interchange in Europe. Furthermore interesting is the seperated 2x4 lane section between Gouda and Woerden. The soil there is so weak that the A12 had to be built on 2 embankments or dikes. So after all, a very interesting highway!


You mention the plus lane between Zoetermeer and Gouda only being open during heavy traffic. Unfortunately in my experience this is not the case, it as well as the lane in the other direction is open 24/7 for as long as I can remember (being years and years) meaning the speed limit is permanently 100kph also at night which is very annoying.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A2 Het Vonderen - Kerensheide



Klausenburg said:


> Any news or more details about this project ?


There is news and it's not good.

It turns out that an agreement between the national government, Limburg province and some other stakeholders was cancelled last minute last month. There has been a budget overrun, which is known for a few years but they don't know exactly how much it is: a few million euros or more? However it is serious enough that the co-financing agreement that was made cannot hold. 

Certain items of the project would have to be re-evaluated. They say it won't affect the legal status of the project, since it has gone through the entire plan approval process. But they might scrap or redesign certain portions of the project (for example: bridge design, local connections, etc.) 

A problem might be the escalation of materials and labor since the plan approval passed in 2018. Inflation is pretty high right now and the cost of materials has risen even more. 

The new timelime for construction is now 2025-2027, which is three years later than what was assumed recently. It was planned to start construction in 2022, which was already a delay from a 2020 start mentioned earlier.

The Dutch planning & approval of major road projects is pretty f'ed up right now, with the nitrogen crisis, budget overruns & lack of interest from the construction sector to take part in large DBFM contracts. Pretty much everything is delayed, this means there are now billions euros of backlog building up because so many projects are delayed. This is also affecting the order books of major construction companies in the road & bridge sector.


----------



## Des

ChrisZwolle said:


> She is currently an alderman for the municipality of Maastricht, focusing on economy and housing. She appears to have no experience in infrastructure. *It is likely she'll become responsible for railway management.*


At least there is not much she can make worse than it already is 😂


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## ChrisZwolle

A € 100 million yacht has been built in Oss, and will travel to Harlingen to complete it. 

However it doesn't fit under the bridges. This weekend, it couldn't fit under the railway bridge at Hedel. They had to wait for water levels to drop.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1480467717618470912
But now it can't fit under the next bridge at Heusden. 😅


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1480504076769140738


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## sven_engelen

The A2 is the backbone of the Netherlands. The 217km long highway is the 2nd longest highway in the Netherlands and runs from Amsterdam, via Utrecht, 's-Hertogenbosch, Eindhoven, Sittard and Maastricht to the Belgian border where the E25 goes further towards Liège and Luxembourg. The A2 connects all kinds of major cities and transports an average of 123.000 vehicles per day with it's busiest sections around Eindhoven, Utrecht and Amsterdam ofcourse. The highway has 2x3 lanes from Eindhoven to Deil, from there it has 2x4 lanes to Utrecht and from Utrecht it counts 2x5 lanes and is known as the superhighway. The section with more 6 lanes and more is 121kms long and has seen a lot of widenings in the past 14 years over this stretch which is quite impressive. Want to know more about the A2? Check this driving video where we take the A2 from Eindhoven to Amsterdam during early morning rush!


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## The Wild Boy

The motorway that never sleeps - literally


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## ChrisZwolle

A major rehabilitation of the A12 motorway in The Hague (Utrechtsebaan) will commence today. 

The motorway was built in the 1970s and opened to traffic in 1976. The westernmost segment is maintained by the city of The Hague.

The motorway has been constructed below grade in a concrete trench. The concrete needs an overhaul. After these works, the trench should be free of major construction for decades to come. 

A12 will be closed for outbound traffic. The works should be completed by May 2022.


----------



## Suburbanist

Have they considered putting a lid over it to make way for real estate development?


----------



## KIWIKAAS

On a few sections they have done that. There are a number of buildings and a small park built on top of the A12.


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## Cookiefabric

@Suburbanist There are plans to put some kind of roof there (with a small gap in the middle).

-----
The section that's under the administration of the city of The Hague/Den Haag has no special status -- It's just a grade separated highway with prohibited signs for bikes, mopeds and pedestrians
Even it's "_autoweg_" status has been stripped a few years ago, but not all sign has been removed. Might happen that those signs will disappear after the renovation.


----------



## Suburbanist

Cookiefabric said:


> @Suburbanist There are plans to put some kind of roof there (with a small gap in the middle).
> 
> -----
> The section that's under the administration of the city of The Hague/Den Haag has no special status -- It's just a grade separated highway with prohibited signs for bikes, mopeds and pedestrians
> Even it's "_autoweg_" status has been stripped a few years ago, but not all sign has been removed. Might happen that those signs will dispensary after the renovation.


What is the current speed limit there?


----------



## Cookiefabric

@Suburbanist 70 km/h (~1,4 km) and 50 km/h ( ~400 / 500 meters - next to Malieveld)


----------



## KIWIKAAS

Cookiefabric said:


> @Suburbanist There are plans to put some kind of roof there (with a small gap in the middle).
> 
> -----
> The section that's under the administration of the city of The Hague/Den Haag has no special status -- It's just a grade separated highway with prohibited signs for bikes, mopeds and pedestrians
> Even it's "_autoweg_" status has been stripped a few years ago, but not all sign has been removed. Might happen that those signs will dispensary after the renovation.


Which section is administered by The Hague city council? I assume it's the section at Malieveld, Haagse Bos? 
As far as I know the old autoweg designation N12 was just replaced with a continuation of the A12 signage, but its autoweg status has remained up to Malieveld.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

Suburbanist said:


> What is the current speed limit there?


70kph


----------



## ChrisZwolle

An aerial photo of the ferry terminal at Holwerd, where ferries to Ameland Island depart.

There is a major problem with underwater erosion and silting of the shipping channel. They currently have an excessive cost to keep the channel open, they quote an average of 3 trailers full of sand per passenger. 

One of the options being studied is a complete relocation of the ferry terminal to Ferwert (a few kilometers west). However as you can see the current ferry terminal is quite an extensive asset.


----------



## Suburbanist

It is less than 10km on a straight line on very shallow waters...

Just saying.... not difficult to build a bridge. followed by a subsea short tunnel to the northeast tip of Terschelling


----------



## Slagathor

You're proposing the construction of a bridge over tidal mud flats (that's gonna require driving piles deep into the ground) which are a UNESCO World Heritage nature reserve area...



ChrisZwolle said:


> An aerial photo of the ferry terminal at Holwerd, where ferries to Ameland Island depart.
> 
> There is a major problem with underwater erosion and silting of the shipping channel. They currently have an excessive cost to keep the channel open, they quote an average of 3 trailers full of sand per passenger.
> 
> One of the options being studied is a complete relocation of the ferry terminal to Ferwert (a few kilometers west). However as you can see the current ferry terminal is quite an extensive asset.


It's not _really _extensive, though, is it? It's a massive parking lot with a single dock. Ferry docks are not exactly rocket science. The question then becomes if they need to allow cars by non-islanders to come there (you don't need a massive parking lots if only the locals are allowed to drive there).


----------



## Suburbanist

Slagathor said:


> You're proposing the construction of a bridge over tidal mud flats (that's gonna require driving piles deep into the ground) which are a UNESCO World Heritage nature reserve area...
> 
> 
> 
> It's not _really _extensive, though, is it? It's a massive parking lot with a single dock. Ferry docks are not exactly rocket science. The question then becomes if they need to allow cars by non-islanders to come there (you don't need a massive parking lots if only the locals are allowed to drive there).


Isn´t the large parking lot there, in part, because many people drive to the ferry (which has no train station) then catch the ferry and cycle in the island?


----------



## Cookiefabric

KIWIKAAS said:


> Which section is administered by The Hague city council? I assume it's the section at Malieveld, Haagse Bos?
> As far as I know the old autoweg designation N12 was just replaced with a continuation of the A12 signage, but its autoweg status has remained up to Malieveld.


From / until here: (Streetview) Google Maps

Also visible: End of Motorway sign, but no _autoweg _sign. There is only 1 (autoweg sign) left: "Ending in 400M" -- If i'm correct, this one will be removed during the renovation.


----------



## Turf

Suburbanist said:


> Isn´t the large parking lot there, in part, because many people drive to the ferry (which has no train station) then catch the ferry and cycle in the island?


That is correct. Saves money as the car is relatively expensive. And cycling on the island is very pleasant.



Suburbanist said:


> It is less than 10km on a straight line on very shallow waters...
> 
> Just saying.... not difficult to build a bridge. followed by a subsea short tunnel to the northeast tip of Terschelling


There was an attempt in 1871 to build a dam and let nature build up land by situation making Ameland a peninsula. That dam is actually the origin of the current terminal.
(Dutch: Verbindingsdam | VVV Ameland )

As @ChrisZwolle mentioned the government will start a long term assessment soon as to what a future proof solution would be (till 2100). Dutch: Waddenzee: verbetering verbinding Ameland | Rijkswaterstaat

An earlier investigation to straighten out the trench the ferry takes ( it takes quite a detour ) was canceled mainly due to high restrictions in the nature reserve.

Finally there is a plan to put Holwerd at see. Opening up the seadike to create a connection to the village. This way making Holwerd a tourist attraction. And giving the see a natural way to let the current keep the trench open just like some villages use in the German part of the waddensea.
Dutch: Home - Holwerd aan Zee


----------



## Ni3lS

Empty motorways around Amsterdam on the morning of January 1st, here are some screenshots from a video I made. Not often will you see such empty stretches of asphalt during daytime


----------



## KIWIKAAS

Cookiefabric said:


> From / until here: (Streetview) Google Maps
> 
> Also visible: End of Motorway sign, but no _autoweg _sign. There is only 1 (autoweg sign) left: "Ending in 400M" -- If i'm correct, this one will be removed during the renovation.


Thanks! That's very interesting. So the whole sunken section is maintained by The Hague?


----------



## Cookiefabric

KIWIKAAS said:


> Thanks! That's very interesting. So the whole sunken section is maintained by The Hague?


Exactly (plus the bit near Malieveld). The sunken part, as Chris mentioned, is currently under maintenance and the detour route is set up to use the _Rotterdamsebaan_ -- currently a route that is barely used by motorist. (because getting there from Malieveld is a bit of a pain with that amount of traffic lights)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Rotterdamsebaan has a volume of around 30,000 vehicles per day. Which is not bad, though not very high either.

But I do not think that the projections of 87,000 vehicles per day are correct. There is no way the traffic lights at either end of the tunnel can handle that kind of traffic volume. It probably maxes out at 40-50k.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I've checked the environmental study for the Rotterdamsebaan / Victory Boogie Woogie Tunnel. The traffic volume projection for the tunnel is 38,000 vehicles per day, not 87,000 as quoted by the municipality and media.

The EIA states that a previous higher level study indicated 70,000 vehicles per day but this was judged to be unrealistic as the connecting road network and intersections cannot handle that kind of traffic. 87,000 is absurd even the tunnel was part of a grade-separated highway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are numerous reports of overturned trucks in the Netherlands, due to Storm Eunice.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1494698069216145412

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1494697555799728133

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1494704009692827650


----------



## ChrisZwolle

mappero said:


> and now, the road thru the inner sea is closed because of VERY stormy weather:


This road is prone to high winds. It is located between two major lakes, and especially with a southwestern wind like today, the wind blows right on the dam, onto traffic at a 90 degree angle. Waves crashing onto the roadway can also become a problem.

The road is operated by Flevoland Province, there are three scenarios based on the forecasted or measured wind speed:


scenario 1: 7 Beaufort or 16 m/s: reduced speed limit from 100 to 70 km/h. Passing ban.
scenario 2: 8 Beaufort or 19 m/s: ban on trucks and trailers
scenario 3: 9 Beaufort or 24 m/s: complete closure to all traffic.

Scenario 3 was reached very quick today. So far the wind speed has reached a sustained 11 Beaufort, with gusts up to 145 km/h or 40 m/s.


----------



## Theijs

sponge_bob said:


> Storm Eunice made it from my house to Zwolle in 12 hours.


I wouldn’t have guessed that you are living in NL as Ireland is in your SSC profile.
Meeting up with Chris once in a while?


----------



## MichiH

Theijs said:


> I wouldn’t have guessed that you are living in NL as Ireland is in your SSC profile.
> Meeting up with Chris once in a while?


Just read it carefully again! The storm moved from Ireland to Zwolle in just 12 hours - with greetings to Chris


----------



## sponge_bob

I think yesterdays forecast had Eunice further north than seems to be the case. I see Eunice is bothering the Germans too. 









Storm Eunice Slams Northern Europe With Dangerously High Winds


A 122-mile-per-hour gust was recorded in England, where one weather official said the storm would be the worst the country had seen in 30 years. At least seven deaths were reported.




www.nytimes.com


----------



## Turf

A truck carrying dangerous materials overturned in Friesland:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1494723070132633600
I wonder if it is criminal to drive a truck with dangerous material during a code red situation.


----------



## PovilD

sponge_bob said:


> I think yesterdays forecast had Eunice further north than seems to be the case. I see Eunice is bothering the Germans too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Storm Eunice Slams Northern Europe With Dangerously High Winds
> 
> 
> A 122-mile-per-hour gust was recorded in England, where one weather official said the storm would be the worst the country had seen in 30 years. At least seven deaths were reported.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com


We are also waiting for Eunice. Snow storms Tonight followed by rain showers in the morning. Storm further North would mean worse to us, now we may get average windy weather instead of smth extraordinary. Poland should get most of it here.


----------



## sponge_bob

Best watch out for *Storm Franklin* on Monday then.


----------



## sven_engelen

From rural to urban real quickly. The A15 from Deil towards Rotterdam. The A15 is quite a congested highway as it not only transports traffic between Nijmegen/Arnhem and Rotterdam, it is also the main highway to the Rotterdam port. Plans for expansion are there but it really needs some meandering before it will be expanded. Enjoy!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The first signs for A24 are installed.

A24 is a new toll road and tunnel between A20 and A15 west of Rotterdam. The signage will use an [A24 TOL] shield.










photo by nickdh


----------



## Cookiefabric

I do notice some Polish influence here


----------



## da_scotty

Is Middelburg the new control city instead of Zierikzee?


----------



## Cookiefabric

^^ Capital of the province Zeeland (and because it's pointing towards the N57/ "the WEST", Middelburg makes more sense)
Zierikzee will remain on the signs at A29/A59/N59


----------



## ChrisZwolle

_Julianaplein_ in Groningen is no more. A28 now feeds directly into N7 eastbound, N7 itself is disconnected.




























More: Luchtfoto's Julianaplein en Vrijheidsplein | 2 maart 2022 | Foto's: Rijkswaterstaat


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The _Terbergseplein _A16/A20 interchange in Rotterdam. A16 is being extended over A20 with a launch platform. This is a common sight in Germany, but quite rare in the Netherlands, as Dutch engineers usually prefer precast beams or the regular box girder method.









A16 Rotterdam zet belangrijke stappen | Rijkswaterstaat / drone addicts


----------



## The Wild Boy

Is there a reason why The Dutch like leaving water ponds near / on interchanges? Does that serve a purpose, or?


----------



## MrAronymous

Water retention. If you don't have areas for the water to go into the ground, the ground will dry out and sink. Half of the country used to be swamps. We don't just have waterways near interchanges but basically anywhere in the country, from countryside and suburbs to cities.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Water infrastructure is omnipresent in the Netherlands, but at the same time for most people also unknown and unseen how it works.

An example of just how many waterways are actively managed in one region: ArcGIS Web Application

For example in my region (620,000 inhabitants), the water board manages 7,000 kilometers of waterways, 363 pumping stations, 1,972 dams, 1,000 kilometers of levees and thousands of culverts.


----------



## ddaneluz

Helle everyone. I'm from Brazil and I will be in Amsterdan from March 27th until April 2nd, and since I work with road opperations, I would like you to give me suggestions for itineraries and/or road sections that are interesting for me to get to know in Holland. I'm renting a car and the idea is to drive for a couple of days.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A1, A2 and A4 are large motorways out of Amsterdam (to Almere, Utrecht or Rotterdam). Those are all short drives.

Also interesting is the 'Afsluitdijk' of A7, which is a 32 kilometer dam through the sea. But there are large-scale construction works going on to improve the flood defenses. Also interesting is the N307 Enkhuizen - Lelystad which is a 27 kilometer dam through two lakes. It features the world's only 'naviduct' (a combination of navigational locks & an aquaduct / waterway underpass). Another interesting feature is N57 across the dams and storm surge barriers from the Port of Rotterdam to Middelburg. 

The Netherlands is a small country so you can reach many destinations within 1 - 1.5 hours of driving from Amsterdam. N57 is a bit farther away. 

Also: traffic congestion is back after its covid-break, but if you steer clear of 7:30 - 9 and 16:00 - 18:00 hours on Monday-Friday, it shouldn't be too bad. The Amsterdam region has less traffic congestion than the Rotterdam region.


----------



## Suburbanist

ddaneluz said:


> Helle everyone. I'm from Brazil and I will be in Amsterdan from March 27th until April 2nd, and since I work with road opperations, I would like you to give me suggestions for itineraries and/or road sections that are interesting for me to get to know in Holland. I'm renting a car and the idea is to drive for a couple of days.


One suggestion in the South Hoogvliet Rotterdam to Terbregseweg (Google Maps). This covers impressive water, land reclamation and road infrastructure. But it takes 1 full day.


----------



## aswnl

ddaneluz said:


> Helle everyone. I'm from Brazil and I will be in Amsterdan from March 27th until April 2nd, and since I work with road opperations, I would like you to give me suggestions for itineraries and/or road sections that are interesting for me to get to know in Holland. I'm renting a car and the idea is to drive for a couple of days.


Are you visiting the Intertraffic ?


----------



## aswnl

Interesting road sections:
A4 Schiphol - Burgerveen interchange: 2-5-5-2 setup
A44 Burgerveen-Leiden: some of the oldest freeway bridges in NL (>85 years old) in a mostly pre-WW2 freeway alignment
A8-A10-A5 Coentunnel: 3-2-3 setup with tidal flow
A1-A6: 5-2-5 setup with tidal flow
A15 interchanges Vaanplein and Ridderkerk with some nice flyovers
A2 Amsterdam-Utrecht: 2x5 in 'rural' environment

Also interesting: drive from Amsterdam via Arnhem via A1-A30-A12 or A2-A12 and then drive the German A3 to Kreuz Oberhausen and back. That will take you 4-5 hours, but there is no speed limit between the NL/D border and Oberhausen. That's quite an experience - however, be careful.

Finally, be aware of the automatic section speed control in NL, and the very high fines.


----------



## Cookiefabric

@ddaneluz 
Not sure how big your budget is for the fuel, however EV's are also option (far cheaper to travel around with and a decent network with fast chargers - Like Shell Recharge, Fastned, Tesla and Ionity). If you do prefer to travel with a car that runs on diesel or gas, keep in mind that those are currently very high (roughly 2,40/litre for gas (Euro95) or ~ 13 R$/liter)

Next to the locations that aswnl named, you might maybe also be interested in the Dutch Defense against Water.
Some locations:
N57 Neeltje Jans / Brouwersdam / Oosterscheldekering
N59 Between A29 and Zierikzee
N256 (Zeelandbrug - in the past "longest bridge in Europa" - about 5km at 80km/h will keep you busy for a bit  )


----------



## MichiH

Cookiefabric said:


> N256 (Zeelandbrug - in the past "longest bridge in Europa" - about 5km at 80km/h will keep you busy for a bit  )


From 1965 to 1972 though


----------



## ddaneluz

aswnl said:


> Are you visiting the Intertraffic ?


Yes!


----------



## ddaneluz

aswnl said:


> Interesting road sections:
> A4 Schiphol - Burgerveen interchange: 2-5-5-2 setup
> A44 Burgerveen-Leiden: some of the oldest freeway bridges in NL (>85 years old) in a mostly pre-WW2 freeway alignment
> A8-A10-A5 Coentunnel: 3-2-3 setup with tidal flow
> A1-A6: 5-2-5 setup with tidal flow
> A15 interchanges Vaanplein and Ridderkerk with some nice flyovers
> A2 Amsterdam-Utrecht: 2x5 in 'rural' environment
> 
> Also interesting: drive from Amsterdam via Arnhem via A1-A30-A12 or A2-A12 and then drive the German A3 to Kreuz Oberhausen and back. That will take you 4-5 hours, but there is no speed limit between the NL/D border and Oberhausen. That's quite an experience - however, be careful.
> 
> Finally, be aware of the automatic section speed control in NL, and the very high fines.


could you tell me more about automatic section speed control in NL?


----------



## Slagathor

It takes photos at the start and it takes photos at the end. Then it does the math. If your average speed was too high, you're gonna get a (steep) fine.


----------



## Klausenburg

ChrisZwolle said:


> 'Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere' megaproject


Can you please provide some details about this megaproject ? BTW, I drove on Friday from Germany to the area of Amsterdam, on B56 (D) / N297 (NL), A2, A9 and A4. So basically I passed through Amstelveen and Schiphol towards Nieuw-Vennep. IMO A4 Amstelveen-Schiphol is more impresive then A2 Utrecht - Amsterdam.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Klausenburg said:


> Can you please provide some details about this megaproject ?


Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere, or SAA, is a nearly completed project to upgrade 64 kilometers of A1, A6, A9 & A10 between Schiphol Airport, Amsterdam & Almere, which is a high growth corridor. The project cost is € 5.4 billion and was mostly built between 2012 and 2019. The A9 expansion through Amstelveen is the final stage. The planned A10 tunnel in Amsterdam is not part of this project. 


A1 has been widened to 2x4 lanes (A10 to A9) and 2x5 + 2 reversible lanes (A9 to A6)
A6 has been widened to 2x4 / 4x2 lanes through the Almere area (A1 to N702 east of the city)
A9 has been widened with reversible lanes, in a 3 kilometer tunnel in Amsterdam-Southeast (A1 to A2)
A9 will be widened to 2x4 lanes through Amstelveen (A2 to A4)
A10 has been widened to 2x4 lanes in Amsterdam (A1 to A2)

Not part of the project, but built in the same time;

A5 Westrandweg (Amsterdam western bypass)
A9 shift outside of Badhoevedorp (including more capacity)
A10 second Coen Tunnel
N702 six-laning & grade separation in Almere (under construction)

These were the motorways involved.









One key component is perhaps the longest reversible lane system in Europe:


----------



## Attus

Chris, or any one, do you have modal share data from the 70's and recently? Can they be compared?


----------



## Cookiefabric

@Attus I think I miss a few things from your question. Which kind of data (location/motorways/highways/local roads/AADT/etc) do you want to compare?


----------



## Attus

Cookiefabric said:


> @Attus I think I miss a few things from your question. Which kind of data (location/motorways/highways/local roads/AADT/etc) do you want to compare?


A general modal share in the Netherlands. E.g. nowadays 85% car, 10% public transport, 5% walk + bike, in the 70's 75% car 15% public transport, 10% walk + bike (example data!). I'm not sure if such statistics existed decades ago, recent data is to be found for example by the EU.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Apparently Statistics Netherlands has tracked the modal split since 1985.

I found some data.

This graph shows billions of traveled kilometers by mode between 1985 and 2007. _Auto_ = car, _trein_ = train,_ fiets_ = bicycle.









This graph shows freight traffic. It shows millions of tons on the left and the share on the right. For example you can see that rail freight has always had an insignificant share since 1970 (_aandeel railvervoer_). Blue is inland shipping. Green is road freight. _Aandeel wegvervoer_ = share of road freight.


----------



## aswnl

ddaneluz said:


> Yes!


I assumed because of the dates mentioned. I'll be there as well - only for me it'll take only half an hour to get there ;-)


----------



## aswnl

ddaneluz said:


> could you tell me more about automatic section speed control in NL?


Automatic section control works with cameras attached to gantries. The numberplate is scanned on the entry gantry with a timestamp, and also on the exit-gantry. There can be up to 6 sections in serie. For foreigners in a rental car it means that if you drive a fine (which are quite high in NL) the amount due will be charged on your credit card. So driving an avarage of 100 where 80 is allowed will cost 'only' 155 euros. Not a reminder of your trip you want to find when you're back home...

When you're driving 100 in a 70-workzone the fine will be a staggering 347 euros.
When you drive 130 on a motorway between 6.00 and 19.00 it will cost you only 263 euros...

The 5-lane wide sections of A2 and A4 near Amsterdam have section control, so be warned.


----------



## sven_engelen

The N300 is an expressway which runs around the parkstad city region. With Heerlen as it's main city, the region has a 255k population. Before the N300, also known as the Buitenring Parkstad was opened traffic had to drive through the parkstad cities to get to their destination. With the N300 that became way easier. Enjoy the video!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Figures of traffic up to 31 December 2021:

Billions of vehicle kilometers (on the motorway network):









Traffic congestion (millions of kilometer-minutes):









A kilometer minute is a unit used in the Netherlands to calculate traffic congestion: they count each kilometer of traffic congestion in cumulative minutes).

As you can see, traffic volumes are back to 2006-2010 levels, but traffic congestion is still 50 - 60% below those years. That is due to motorway capacity expansions. The Netherlands saw a motorway capacity construction boom a decade ago.


----------



## Slagathor

Kind of a shame that because of the pandemic, we can't measure the effect of the 100km/h speed limit on traffic congestion. In theory, it should have an impact...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I wonder if non-Dutch speakers understand this message:


DRIP N35 Zwolle by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## Attus

ChrisZwolle said:


> I wonder if non-Dutch speakers understand this message:
> 
> 
> DRIP N35 Zwolle by European Roads, on Flickr


There are two words (4, but 2 of them are town names), "via" is quite an international word. I understand "ri", too, but I think, whether you understand it or you don't, does not mean very much. It's pretty clear, there's an acciddent on A28, towards Groningen you shall take N50 and A6.


----------



## riiga

ChrisZwolle said:


> I wonder if non-Dutch speakers understand this message:


Accident on A28 towards Meppel (ri = richting?)
For Groningen, keep left and the take route via N50/A6


----------



## Stuu

Attus said:


> There are two words (4, but 2 of them are town names), "via" is quite an international word. I understand "ri", too, but I think, whether you understand it or you don't, does not mean very much. It's pretty clear, there's an acciddent on A28, towards Groningen you shall take N50 and A6.


My understanding is the opposite... I would assume that the accident is on the N50/A6 route, given the placing of the pictogram, and that the best route is to use the A28


----------



## Ni3lS

I guess it was this Lamborghini Aventador that caused it?









Peperdure Lamborghini crasht op A28 bij Rouveen


RTV Oost meldt dat twee inzittenden van de sportauto zijn onderzocht door ambulancepersoneel, maar niet naar het ziekenhuis hoefden.




nos.nl





On the way to a car meet at the TT circuit in Assen..


----------



## Turf

Stuu said:


> My understanding is the opposite... I would assume that the accident is on the N50/A6 route, given the placing of the pictogram, and that the best route is to use the A28


Given that you only have like 5 seconds or so to read the message, having the A28 info on it is a bit to much. I was confused for more then 5 secs.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

riiga said:


> (ri = richting?)


Yes. It might also work for German drivers (Richtung). N35 is the main road from Germany to Zwolle.


----------



## Wilhem275

Honestly, even as a non-Dutch speaker, "ri" is the only part I understood in that sign 😅

I'm confused by the crash sign placed significantly closer to the detour than to the affected road, I immediately associate it with the wrong line. I'm also confused by the arrow pointing away from the direction I'm supposed to point to.
Very counter-intuitive, IMO.

I'd go with something like this:









Or this:









Probably would work without the arrow as well (or use the arrow instead of "ri" to solve the translation problem).


----------



## Slagathor

You don't need words. What are we, Americans?


----------



## keber

Slagathor said:


> You don't need words. What are we, Americans?
> 
> View attachment 2982148


No joking, just now I understand.


----------



## Attus

Wilhem275 said:


> Or this:
> View attachment 2982071
> 
> 
> Probably would work without the arrow as well (or use the arrow instead of "ri" to solve the translation problem).


I agree it would be better this way (although for me the "real" version, too, was clear), but basically it is not about understanding or not understanding Dutch (and Chris posted it about "non Dutch speakers"). 

And even generally I think the Netherlands has very good direction signage, but their sings for temporary closings (accident, road works) are not always easy to understand. Too much information (considering that you have to understand it in a few seconds), bad color choice, bad positioning.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Wilhem275 said:


> I'd go with something like this:


The arrow points in the direction the detour will take you, which is a left turn about 1 km from this VMS.


----------



## Wilhem275

Now, that makes sense, if before that VMS there's one or more directional sign to which you'll associate the VMS arrow.

Still I'd regroup the info on that VMS.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Asphalt paving of the N434 'Rijnland Route' south of Leiden:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514945258441920514


----------



## Attus

Nice, that wise scientists discoverd that nitrogen is much less dangerous after 7PM so at least on the way back home I could drive 120-130 ;-)
I don't like speeding, I could be happy with a speed limit of 120 or 130, I also prefer introducing a speed limit in Germany as well. But 100 on a motorway ... it's like taking Xanax with alcohol, especially if traffic is low.


----------



## Cookiefabric

The best joke so far: 2 politician parties held a survey to find out if people are in favour of an even lower speed limit on express- & motorways (90 km/h) and when the results were published, they also took the average travelling speed in the same message.

Result? The average speed on the motorway has dropped from 114 km/h to 104km/h. 
An average above legal speed limit -- I rest my case


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Attus said:


> I don't like speeding, I could be happy with a speed limit of 120 or 130, I also prefer introducing a speed limit in Germany as well. But 100 on a motorway ... it's like taking Xanax with alcohol, especially if traffic is low.


I usually drive between 110 and 120, depending on traffic. 100 is just too slow on a motorway designed for 120-130. I have not gotten a speeding ticket in 10 years.

In regards to the 'driving task', a task too heavy is negative, but a task that doesn't stimulate is not a positive either. They created the perfect condition to watch YouTube while driving... 

Germans seem especially scared of speeding tickets, they drive 100 km/h and not a kilometer faster, no matter how long they hog the left lane (of course, the stupid guy driving 99 km/h on the right lane MUST be passed!) In reality, the chance of getting a speeding ticket on a Dutch motorway is very low. There are no fixed speed cameras and they do not do a whole lot of mobile checks either. I check the 'Flitsmeister' app from time to time and most of the time there are like 5 - 12 mobile speed cameras, divided over 5,000 kilometers of carriageway, so the chance of encountering them is very low. And that's where Waze or Flitsmeister helps you. I rarely get a notice about a mobile speed camera, that's how rare they are.


----------



## Slagathor

When I drive, I don't find it _that _noticeable. Perhaps this is because in Zeeland, lots of main arterial road are 100 km/h provincial roads so we're used to it. A lot of these roads have 2x2 sections (example 1, example 2), so the concept of "doing 100 km/h on a wide road" is not alien to us. 

Honestly, with everyone doing 100 km/h, driving has become more relaxed. At 130 km/h, there's a big difference between trucks and cars and it becomes more frantic and hectic, with lots of lane-switching. 

It's very noticeable from the train though, which typically travels at 140 km/h. Whenever I'm on a train going along a motorway, such as here, I really feel like the cars are going very slowly.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Slagathor said:


> Honestly, with everyone doing 100 km/h, driving has become more relaxed.


In Zeeland? Elsewhere you see a lot of dense platoon driving, it's anything but relaxed. I drove through Germany, France & Belgium this weekend and the trip from Maastricht to Zwolle was by far the most annoying to drive, with endless queues behind a car in the left lane going 0.5 km/h faster than the rest of traffic on the right.


----------



## Suburbanist

Will there be any feasible solution to the nitrogen crisis? Not only for speed limits but housing construction...


----------



## Cookiefabric

@Suburbanist I don't expect it in the near future -- Laws and rules have be changed to solve the issue/problem it created.
The current main targets are traffic & farmers, while their total share (combined) isn't even 50%


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There is a new minister for nitrogen. She said they're going to expropriate farmers near Natura 2000 on a more urgent basis than thus far.

However acquiring the nitrogen emission rights by buying out farms, or their unused rights, seems to have halted. Which is problematic because it's the only viable way to compensate major construction projects. It's all about very minor amounts of nitrogen compared to the overall annual accumulation, but they can't wait decades for the situation to improve naturally. In some Natura 2000 areas, the natural recovery rate can be over 100 years (especially oak habitats).

Still, it's mostly an administrative problem, driving 100 km/h or not building houses has an extremely marginal effect (1/1000th or less).


----------



## Slagathor

Cookiefabric said:


> @Suburbanist I don't expect it in the near future -- Laws and rules have be changed to solve the issue/problem it created.
> The current main targets are traffic & farmers, while their total share (combined) isn't even 50%


It's 52.1%, apparently (see infographic below).

We have no control over other countries (32%), so farming is the logical target.

We're an agricultural powerhouse. Roughly 60% of all the meat we produce is exported. So I can see the point in the line of reasoning that says: "Maybe we should be producing a little less food so we can build homes and drive 130 km/h."

We're Europe's most densely populated country; we can't do everything. We have to make choices.


----------



## PovilD

Yeah, I didn't followed a thread behind reducing speed on Dutch motorways. Only thing I noticed new speed limit signs on Google Street View 
Then I thought about this thread, and I guessed not many are too happy.

110 km/h would be ok as average speed limit for a motorway, when looking at average motorway traffic speed data it is actually something around this value. 100 km/h would be okay on more substandard, like more urban sections with more entrances/exits.
130-140 km/h would be ok if it serves as, for example, Polish A2 between Poznan and Berlin. Not sure if there is comparable section in The Netherlands. I guess many sections like that are in France. 110 km/h would probably be worse here than 130-140 km/h.

Night speed limit 130 km/h makes sense, since it's, well... more boring to drive (low traffic, basically night nothing to see), but it's up to a country to decide. For example, Sweden have chosen 110 km/h 24/7 all year round


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Slagathor said:


> We're Europe's most densely populated country; we can't do everything. We have to make choices.


Yes, that is the problem.

Another problem is the proliferation of large logistics centers and warehouses. Municipal governments are strapped for cash and one of the few income sources is to sell off land for development. While they oppose building houses on greenfield sites, they readily give out large plots of land for logistical centers, warehouses, etc. And they are far larger than almost anything built until the 2000s. So parts of the Netherlands, in particular Brabant & Limburg, are becoming cluttered with distribution centers for god knows what.

Municipalities advertise them as being job generators. While they do generate jobs, almost all of them are foreign workers (with no houses available for them!) and the amount of jobs per square meter is very low compared to other types of employment.

The problem is that the national government has been transferring responsibilities to the municipalities, but without adequate funding to do it. It's a budget cut pushed onto the lower goverments. But lower governments do not have a lot of income sources, so land sales are one of the few ways to cover the budget deficit. Of course, this is unsustainable.

You can also see a trend of municipalities having to cut back on things like road maintenance. I've noticed this in my city, they used to have a good maintenance programme, but they have increased deferred maintenance, both on roads and bicycle paths. And in the past they would thoroughly repave a street or road, now they spread it out over 5 years, with small segments at a time. And lower governments are financially totally unprepared for the large bridge and culvert replacement programme that will spike after 2030, as the first wave of large-scale, post-war municipal infrastructure reaches the end of its life.


----------



## Slagathor

Yeah, I agree with every word you said. The quality of the roads and bike paths in the places I frequently visit (around Zeeland, as well as The Hague) has seriously deteriorated. Social services are being cut as well. The municipalities can't handle this workload without extra funding, which they won't get.


----------



## PovilD

Slagathor said:


> We're Europe's most densely populated country; we can't do everything. We have to make choices.


Yeah, one of the densest countries in Europe, and population is on the rise, while some places see extreme decline (or periods of extreme decline)
There should be more countries like the Netherlands in Europe (especially in terms of infrastructure). Only difference would be less density and less "I guess it may work" restrictions 

I would wish that for CEE, but it's too stubbornly conservative.

Ok, back to the program.


----------



## Turf

ChrisZwolle said:


> There is a new minister for nitrogen.
> 
> ...


I mean, this is ridiculous right?
Some countries have them for silly walks, we take an element from the periodic table to appoint a minister to. Incredible how we got this far. I still hope common sense will prevail in the end.


----------



## Turf

Slagathor said:


> ... We have to make choices.
> 
> ...


I do agree on that. I would very much like to get the (central) government role back in the spacial planning. Roads, rail, nature, farming, water buffers, 100.000 new immigrants a year requiring housing, etc.

Attempt to get back on topic: a plan to design a countrywide highway system (like the Rijkswegenplan) appears to me as impossible now (perhaps also bit unnecessary given the amount of roads already). Having at least room reservations for road, rail, electricity, water, etc. centrally managed would make future improvements easier. Or am I too pessimistic and do we have these kind of reservations and plans?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Rush hour traffic congestion has reached pre-pandemic levels again this spring. 

This graph shows the average peak of traffic congestion on the motorways (in kilometers) during week 12-15 in the evening rush hour. Tuesdays and Thursdays are clearly the busiest. Fridays are a little behind, probably because it is more spread out than before.


----------



## Slagathor

Seems like most folks choose to work Monday, Tuesday and Thursday if they can work from home 2 or 3 days a week. Sort of confirms what I see around me.


----------



## Klausenburg

Slagathor said:


> "Maybe we should be producing a little less food so we can build homes and drive 130 km/h."


Bullshit, the Transport Minister said 130 km/h during daylight won't return anytime soon... maybe in 2030. But 100 km/h might be here forever as statics say there are less deaths in car accidents since it was implemented... So hitting farmers won't help, as some naives are hoping... Netherlands became a dictature of GroenLinks. they never won the elections, but the paties that do, take all the measures from their program and impose them while the working class wich is impacted the most, just aplauds. So... go figure...


----------



## Slagathor

Klausenburg said:


> Bullshit, the Transport Minister said 130 km/h during daylight won't return anytime soon... maybe in 2030. But 100 km/h might be here forever as statics say there are less deaths in car accidents since it was implemented... So hitting farmers won't help, as some naives are hoping... Netherlands became a dictature of GroenLinks. they never won the elections, but the paties that do, take all the measures from their program and impose them while the working class wich is impacted the most, just aplauds. So... go figure...


Don't be an idiot. You're better than this.


----------



## PovilD

Klausenburg said:


> Bullshit, the Transport Minister said 130 km/h during daylight won't return anytime soon... maybe in 2030. But 100 km/h might be here forever as statics say there are less deaths in car accidents since it was implemented... So hitting farmers won't help, as some naives are hoping... Netherlands became a dictature of GroenLinks. they never won the elections, but the paties that do, take all the measures from their program and impose them while the working class wich is impacted the most, just aplauds. So... go figure...


Why they should return 130 km/h on daylight even on 2030? To get more votes? Electric cars will not consume more energy depended on speed?

100 km/h is too slow. 110 km/h is probably scientifically default speed for a typical motorway, unless is some super-motorway Warsaw-Berlin that goes almost in a straight line, and exits are tens of kilometers apart.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Klausenburg said:


> But 100 km/h might be here forever as statics say there are less deaths in car accidents since it was implemented...


Nah, these statistics have no value, it coincided with the covid lockdowns and restrictions. There is a clear pattern with motorway crashes: they occur mostly during high traffic volumes and often in combination with entry / exit points. And these were less prevalent during covid.

I've seen some internal statistics from the ministry that said that the number of motorway crashes is up 26% in the first 15 weeks of 2022 compared to the same period in 2021 and the number of casualties by 36%.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Here's the latest bureaucratic crazyness concerning the 'nitrogen crisis' in the Netherlands. 

A court has decided that the speed limit reduction cannot be used to permit housing construction and a couple of motorway projects, because the effect of the speed limit reduction on nitrogen is too uncertain to base permits on, in fact a counterstudy showed that it actually increased, because due to the speed limit reduction, more traffic utilitizes secondary roads which are closer or run within Natura 2000 areas. Which means the nitrogen situation is worse with 100 km/h than with 130 km/h. 

The government has scrapped the speed limit reduction as a basis for permitting under a revised law that is now up for consultation. However it is unclear how projects can be permitted at all now, considering even the most insignificant amounts emitted makes them un-permittable. 

Another nitrogen compensation measure, acquiring the emission rights from farmers, is also stopped in several provinces because the effect is unclear.

This has become totally absurd. All over amounts that are totally irrelevant. 130 or 100 km/h doesn't make any meaningful difference and houses or no houses don't make any meaningful difference either. Constructing 100,000 houses annually makes out less than 1/1000th of the annual nitrogen precipitation in Natura 2000 areas. But it's stopped dead in its tracks.


----------



## Pell0

So, I'm not sure if this should be here but here it goes.



Did I witness a miracle today? a glitch in the matrix? Or does it happen more often?
As far as I know this part of the A20 has always been 80 km/u but I guess I'm wrong.


----------



## Cookiefabric

Nope -- It's not a glitch

There was a big of a struggle here between the Minister of Transport and the people living in the appartment blocks in "Rotterdam-Overschie" about their health and the related speed-limit. The minister wanted to have the A20-passage of Rotterdam as limit with 100 km/h (24/7), but the lost the case in court. (I believe this was in 2015, but i guess that @ChrisZwolle knows this fact better)

The reason for the higher speed limit is a higher capaciteit on the road (since this section is frequently listed in a top10 position amoung the "file top50" list. This list is published once a year btw).
In the end, the ministery came up with the idea to raise the speed limit (* 80 km/h -> 100 km/h*) during rush hour ( *~16.00 to ~18.00* ) in *only 1 direction: Gouda -> Schiedam/Hoek van Holland*. The idea didn't as much protest as fully 100km/h, so it's still there 

When the extended A16 is finished, maybe there will be another attempt to raise the speed limit back to 100km/h (Although I don't see it happen with the current gov)

Fun fact: The outcome for here is an example for the mechanism called "polderen"


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't recall the specifics of this issue, but it is a known fact that the lower the speed limit on motorways, the denser traffic becomes (less space between vehicles), making merging and lane changes difficult, which can increase traffic congestion. This was also observed on A12 near The Hague, traffic flow improved once the speed limit was raised. It leads to a more natural traffic flow and less platooning. 

The same can be observed all over the Netherlands right now with the 100 km/h speed limit. Following distances are much shorter due to traffic platooning around left lane hoggers. This has gotten noticeable worse since the 100 km/h daytime speed limit was introduced, especially in regions that used to have less dense traffic outside of rush hour (for example the four lane motorways in Central/Eastern Netherlands).


----------



## Pell0

Thank you for your replies. this is brilliant. I love how this makes sense


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Paving is underway at the A4-N434 flyovers near Leiden (the new 'knooppunt Hofvliet').



















More: Asfalteren op hoog niveau | RijnlandRoute


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I took some photos of the 'Island Bridge' of N50 near Kampen this morning. It's a combination of a cable-stayed bridge and a bascule bridge. The bridge spans the IJssel River and was completed in 2003.


N50 Eilandbrug Kampen 01 by European Roads, on Flickr


N50 Eilandbrug Kampen 04 by European Roads, on Flickr


N50 Eilandbrug Kampen 11 by European Roads, on Flickr


N50 Eilandbrug Kampen 17 by European Roads, on Flickr


N50 Eilandbrug Kampen 18 by European Roads, on Flickr


I made a video of the bridge opening (click on the photo, it's a video):

N50 Eilandbrug Kampen by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some concrete bike paths buckle in the heat.

I've been told that these bike paths have expansion joints every 300 meters, which are 3-4 cm wide and filled with asphalt.

Every time the concrete expands, the joint gets narrower. However when the concrete cools down, it doesn't shrink back to its original position, so over time the expansion joint is shut and then it can only go up like this.

This is along N309 between Lelystad and Dronten


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## Slagathor

When I was a teenager, we would have made that our playground for the afternoon. Whoever jumps highest or farthest without a faceplant...


----------



## peezet

Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




goo.gl





Is this the smallest sign at a A-route in the Netherlands?


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## da_scotty

A-road, likely, but this is not regular highway-signage but provincial signage of a regular junction, so bit of a grey area.

N-road, no : N329


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A truck with a lowboy trailer, carrying a Leopard-2 tank has rammed the noise barrier on A12 at Reeuwijk.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

^^ really makes me wonder how.


----------



## da_scotty

Tyre Blowout.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Farmers dumped manure, sand & burning stuff on motorways this morning. A1, A28 & A50 are most affected. Some were dumped on slip roads, others on the main carriageways.


----------



## Slagathor

Starting big fires right next to the nation's largest forest in the middle of a drought. 

Not a great day for stereotypes about farmers...


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## Suburbanist

Do they expect to gain people's sympathy to their party, or just coerce the government French-style?

Cause I can't see how these types of actions would gather more votes for the BBB. And I don't think a large wildfire on the Veluwe would be positive to their cause either.

In addition to blockage or meat-replacement and supermarket warehouses...


----------



## Cookiefabric

Up to the point of 'regular' road blockades (using farmers vehicles), without destroying anything, the farmers gained a lot of understanding for their protests. Those kind of actions are not in their favour...


----------



## M-NL

The biggest problems farmers face is that they can't protest in a way that instantly pauses their production, but also instantly resumes when the protests end. Crops and cattle don't work that way. The only thing they can do is disrupt something further up the production chain. The problem with that is that there are several factions within the farmer community. As happens so often the radical ones are ruining it for the rest. And apart from that there may also be 'professional protesters', conspiracy thinkers and anti government groups, some even posing as farmers, 'joining' the protests, but just there to disrupt whatever they can.


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## ChrisZwolle

Apparently they dumped asbestos onto the motorway near Apeldoorn:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552299886506278919


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## ChrisZwolle

Rijkswaterstaat has problems getting contractors to clean up these blockades. Subcontractors are intimidated and they are not willing to clean up the motorways. Many of these businesses operate in rural areas and sympathize with the farmer's cause.

Authorities are getting more desperate because they do not have a good response to these tractor blockades and load dumps on motorways and elsewhere. 

Outside of cities you'll see a lot of upside down Dutch flags, a sign of farmer's desperation. In some areas they hung them up on every light pole. Municipalities and provinces are not eager to remove them, fearing escalation.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552299265246072832


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## ChrisZwolle

Rijkswaterstaat says they cannot find any contractor that is willing to clean up the A1 motorway (westbound) near Voorst/Apeldoorn. The motorway might be closed tomorrow as well.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552383589878272002


----------



## Stuu

ChrisZwolle said:


> Rijkswaterstaat says they cannot find any contractor that is willing to clean up the A1 motorway (westbound) near Voorst/Apeldoorn. The motorway might be closed tomorrow as well.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552383589878272002


Don't they have any in-house maintenance capability? It doesn't look a massive job


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## ChrisZwolle

Apparently it's asbestos. They can't just get a plow and move it to the side. There are strict regulations about how to handle asbestos.


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## ChrisZwolle

Major motorway closures in the coming weeks;

A50 northbound from Arnhem to Apeldoorn is closed for 16 days straight to resurface 22 kilometers / 3 lanes wide. (5-22 August)










A2 in Eindhoven has significantly reduced capacity to build a tunnel under the motorway in 3 weeks.


----------



## Suburbanist

Which tunnel are they building under A2/N2 ?


----------



## MattiG

Bastiaan85 said:


> They are independent of the drivetrain but they are obviously dependent on the sensory systems used . As Tesla's autopilot primarily uses a camera, it doesn't have much issues with showstorms. It does have issues with fog and heavy rain, much like a human does (which uses the same medium). Just because some ACC systems are problematic in snowy conditions doesn't mean all systems are let alone all autonomous driving systems have the same issue. Not to mention most if not all autonomous driving systems combine at least two sensory systems.


The snow in the air is usually not a big probleem, if there is some visibility. The problems related to autonomous cars begin when the snow reaches the ground. Modeling all those zillions variations of the winter conditions will take decades to complete. The car manufacturers have taken baby steps only this far.


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## ChrisZwolle

If you're traveling on a Dutch motorway, you'll likely pass under viaducts with a lot of upside down flags or other banners. This is the farmer's protest being hijacked by the crazies. The conspiracy thinkers have taken it over. Everything you read about Alex Jones is happening with these people as well, they are that insane. This is on A6 in Flevoland, where they even put up a Russian flag. On A1, they put up a Nazi flag.

Contractors who remove these flags from road equipment have received many death threats. These people make photos of the company doing that work, then go after the company or its employees. Many contractors have stated they are not willing to remove them anymore. It has gotten that insane.


----------



## Wilhem275

That flag is probably not the only Russian part of that act.


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## Ni3lS

Saw some this weekend too on the A7 in Friesland. The retarded thing is, with this symbolic act of protest they seem to be putting the emphasis on the wrong thing without even realizing. The red in the flag stands for the people, the white for religion and the blue for the kingdom. You'd think they are with the people and against the kingdom in their protest but I think at this point half of them are so oozy woozy upstairs that they themselves don't even know anymore.


----------



## Slagathor

Ni3lS said:


> Saw some this weekend too on the A7 in Friesland. The retarded thing is, with this symbolic act of protest they seem to be putting the emphasis on the wrong thing without even realizing. *The red in the flag stands for the people, the white for religion and the blue for the kingdom.* You'd think they are with the people and against the kingdom in their protest but I think at this point half of them are so oozy woozy upstairs that they themselves don't even know anymore.


You're one of, like, 5 people in the entire realm who know that.


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## g.spinoza

Slagathor said:


> You're one of, like, 5 people in the entire realm who know that.


I thought the color of the kingdom was orange 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Slagathor

g.spinoza said:


> I thought the color of the kingdom was orange 🤷‍♂️


It's a long and painful story between Staatsgezinden (republicans) and Prinsgezinden (monarchists) which led us to the precipice of civil war on several occasions.

Ironically the Dutch flag itself is the product of typical pragmatism. It started out orange-white-blue but the orange was often poorly visible at sea so they made it red. In theory, this was a massive political statement (going from the prince's orange to the republican red) but everyone let it slide because there was money to be made with the spice trade.


----------



## Bastiaan85

Not to mention the flag is much older than the kingdom.


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## ChrisZwolle

They built a 17 kilometer dedicated autonomous truck route in the Port of Rotterdam, called the 'Container Exchange Route'. 5 container terminals are linked with dedicated roadways. 

They have a problem: it doesn't work. They can't get the IT side of the autonomous vehicles to work with the container terminals. The project has cost € 175 million but it's not in use. They're now considering running regular trucks with drivers on it.


















Photo by KWS


----------



## Shenkey

Why? It sounds a straightforward project. Add GPS ground bases to have exact location up to 1 cm and equip the trucks


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## ChrisZwolle

Apparently the problem is not automated driving per se, but the IT integration of various container terminals. Which is apparently incredibly difficult to do, as they haven't managed to do that for several years now.


----------



## Klausenburg

ChrisZwolle said:


> This is on A6 in Flevoland, where they even put up a Russian flag. On A1, they put up a Nazi flag.


Boss, its Basic Logic 101 that somebody who oppose the farmer protests put the Russian and the Nazi flag there to discredit them.


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## M-NL

ChrisZwolle said:


> Apparently the problem is not automated driving per se, but the IT integration of various container terminals. Which is apparently incredibly difficult to do, as they haven't managed to do that for several years now.


Every terminal has its own IT system, that wasn't designed to handle anything but the current terminal equipment and manual operated trucks on their own terminal, so that makes sense.
My first thought would be driving the automated vehicle to the terminal gate and then handing it over to the terminal IT as long as its there. But I would be very surprised if they haven't already tried something like that. Remember that those IT systems are really complex and one small error can bring the entire terminal to a halt.
And if everything fails: Drive the automated vehicle to the gate of the terminal and do the last mile by a human operator.


----------



## Turf

M-NL said:


> Every terminal has its own IT system, that wasn't designed to handle anything but the current terminal equipment and manual operated trucks on their own terminal, so that makes sense.
> My first thought would be driving the automated vehicle to the terminal gate and then handing it over to the terminal IT as long as its there. But I would be very surprised if they haven't already tried something like that. Remember that those IT systems are really complex and one small error can bring the entire terminal to a halt.
> And if everything fails: Drive the automated vehicle to the gate of the terminal and do the last mile by a human operator.


Have done quite some integrations, delays are mostly when people on both sides don't cooperate or politics (who is paying) is involved.

Bit strange though as Rotterdam is quite experienced in connecting the supply chain that this time it did not work out.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Alexia Tunnel opened to traffic in Hilversum on 6 August 2022.

This is a rather unusual tunnel, it is basically a railway underpass (it replaced a level crossing), but the tunnel has two levels: one for the road and one for the bike path. The road tunnel has a length of 249 meters, as to avoid being an official tunnel and be subject to complex tunnel regulations, which start at 250 meters.

Hilversum has a crappy arterial road network, this is the only rail crossing in the eastern boroughs of the city. Hilversum is known for trying some new solutions to improve traffic flow on their two-lane arterial roads. It was the first city to experiment with the 'voorrangsplein' (priority roundabout), which has been adopted in the handbook for urban roads in 2012.









Photo by ProRail


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## ChrisZwolle

I took some photos of the A50 resurfacing project, which is done under a 16-day closure (22 kilometers).


A50 Viaduct Elsbosweg 03 by European Roads, on Flickr


A50 Viaduct Woudweg 04 by European Roads, on Flickr


A50 Viaduct Woudweg 06 by European Roads, on Flickr


A50 Viaduct N786 03 by European Roads, on Flickr


A50 Viaduct aansluiting Hoenderloo 07 by European Roads, on Flickr


A50 Viaduct Groenendaalseweg 04 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## MattiG

ChrisZwolle said:


> I took some photos of the A50 resurfacing project, which is done under a 16-day closure (22 kilometers).


I believe this is not about putting new asphalt only, because a full closure for 16 days would be an overkill. Are they repairing the underlaying (concrete?) layers, too?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They are repairing some spots of the intermediate layers as well, but not on the whole route. And they replaced crash barriers. This section has a large amount of traffic detection loops because the right shoulder operates as a variable peak hour lane (you can see it closed in the other direction).

The Dutch construction industry used to be more efficient at this, but the nitrogen crisis had decimated the capacity of the road construction industry, as the amount of new projects have dried up while other construction sectors have a very high demand for workers (including in other countries).

I think it will take the Dutch construction sector a long time to recover from this current standstill, from a staffing point of view. There is around € 1 - 1.5 billion worth of road construction projects annually that are delayed, but nobody knows how long this is going to last, as they cannot find a practical solution out of this bookkeeping crisis.


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## ChrisZwolle

The tunnel has been built underneath 5 carriageways of A2 at Eindhoven this summer. It's now complete. There was much less traffic congestion than anticipated. This is a crucial link in the road network, as there are no high-standard alternatives routes other than going through a different region of the country (such as A73), which isn't an option for metropolitan traffic.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1561647127092150274


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## ChrisZwolle

A new plan approval has been published for the A12 / A27 'Ring Utrecht' project. 

It is a partial change of the 2020 plan approval that was stopped due to the nitrogen issues. The new plan approval includes a detailed investigation into the nitrogen deposition, using the latest regulations (they were changed in 2021). 

Under the new regulations, the nitrogen values have to be investigated 25 kilometers from the project area. This previously was 5 kilometers. However with road projects, the 'project area' is not just where construction will take place, but where traffic volumes will change due to the project, and then 25 kilometers from that point. Which means they had to investigate natura 2000 areas very far from Utrecht, even into Overijssel province. 

The outline indicates the study area:









This is the nitrogen value due to the project in Natura 2000. As you can see, the contribution is extremely small, the average annual nitrogen 'deposition' (precipitation) is in the range of 1700 - 2400 moles per hectare, per year. The highest project contribution is 10 moles/hectare/year, on a single hectare of Natura 2000 habitat that is 'meters from the pavement' along A1. It is overwhelming less than 1 mole, these are exceedingly small amounts.










The main problem is not really the project contribution (which is negligible across the board), but the fact that these areas are already overloaded with nitrogen. The Veluwe area in particular has high values due to the extreme concentration of poultry farms west of it (in the prevailing wind direction).


----------



## Worldtraveler94

Ni3lS said:


> Saw some this weekend too on the A7 in Friesland. The retarded thing is, with this symbolic act of protest they seem to be putting the emphasis on the wrong thing without even realizing. The red in the flag stands for the people, the white for religion and the blue for the kingdom. You'd think they are with the people and against the kingdom in their protest but I think at this point half of them are so oozy woozy upstairs that they themselves don't even know anymore.


They would better choose the color Orange instead of Red, which stood for the actual Dutch Republic that existed between 1588 and 1795. If wanting to denounce the Kingdom and Royal Hierarchy etc. that exists. Keeping in mind how the Dutch freed themselves at the time from Spanish (Habsburg) and Vatican tyranny.


----------



## Koesj

Worldtraveler94 said:


> They would better choose the color Orange instead of Red, which stood for the actual Dutch Republic that existed between 1588 and 1795. If wanting to denounce the Kingdom and Royal Hierarchy etc. that exists. Keeping in mind how the Dutch freed themselves at the time from Spanish (Habsburg) and Vatican tyranny.


The prinsenvlag you say?


----------



## Slagathor

Worldtraveler94 said:


> They would better choose the color Orange instead of Red, which stood for the actual Dutch Republic that existed between 1588 and 1795. If wanting to denounce the Kingdom and Royal Hierarchy etc. that exists. Keeping in mind how the Dutch freed themselves at the time from Spanish (Habsburg) and Vatican tyranny.


Not necessarily, as I recall there is historical evidence to suggest that orange-white-blue was preferred by monarchists (Prinsgezinden) and red-white-blue was preferred by republicans (Staatsgezinden).

In that sense, Wilhelmina's decision to officialize the red-white-blue flag was a historical aberration.


----------



## M-NL

Researchers suggest that the red in the Dutch vlag represents the people, the white the clergy and the blue the nobility. The original orange was replaced by red, because it was cheaper and better visible at sea. These colours predate the house of Orange. But it still was the link with the house of Orange that led to red/orange change discussions at later stages.


----------



## Bastiaan85

There are even indications that the colors were based on the County of Holland’s army banners used since William V (1354) referencing the red from the red lion in the coat of arms and the Bavarian white/blue. William V was the first ruler from the Bavarian House of Wittelsbach.

The Prinsenvlag was basically an ‘orangified’ version used by the seabeggars in honor of the Prince of Orange granting them privateering rights (putting them one level above plain pirates). It’s indeed a bit backwards to then explain the final version’s red as a conversion from orange (either being from orange bleaching easily at sea, or honoring the state rather than nobility), it was the original all along.


----------



## Worldtraveler94

Koesj said:


> The prinsenvlag you say?


It appears so. 

Frankly, I don't care what Wikipedia says concerning supposed negative connotations. As long as New York City, Albany, The Bronx and Jersey City etc. continues to use the Dutch Republican tricolor that was used in the First Dutch Revolt in their flag ... both vertical and horizontal, I don't see a problem with it.


----------



## Slagathor

Worldtraveler94 said:


> It appears so.
> 
> Frankly, I don't care what Wikipedia says concerning supposed negative connotations. *As long as New York City, Albany, The Bronx and Jersey City etc. continues to use the Dutch Republican tricolor *that was used in the First Dutch Revolt in their flag ... both vertical and horizontal, I don't see a problem with it.


But on the flipside; so did Apartheid South Africa...


----------



## Worldtraveler94

Slagathor said:


> But on the flipside; so did Apartheid South Africa...


Exactly! A neutral flag, with great historical importance to the First Dutch Revolt for independence +430 years ago.


----------



## spartannl

From a Dutch Republican standpoint, I prefer the “Statenvlag”!










Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statenvlag?wprov=sfti1


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## ChrisZwolle

The John Frost Bridge across the Rhine River in Arnhem has been rehabilitated and reopened to traffic today.

This arch bridge was built in 1935 and was originally the only road bridge at Arnhem. It was blown up in 1940, repaired in 1943, blown up again in 1944 and repaired in 1950.

The bridge is named for John Frost, a British Army officer tasked with capturing the bridge intact in the 1944 operation Market Garden (which failed).

The bridge lost its importance for through traffic with the opening of A50 west of Arnhem in 1972 and the N325 east of Arnhem in 1987. It currently serves local traffic into the city of Arnhem.


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## Attus

II know where is this bridge: it's too far.


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## ChrisZwolle

Also recently rehabilitated is the John S. Thompson Bridge across the Meuse River in Grave.

This bridge dates back to 1929. It is one of the few, if not the only remaining 1920s major river bridge that has suffered no damage during World War II, and is thus still largely an original structure.

However the bridge had problems, they implemented a 10 ton weight limit in 2020. The bridge was rehabilitated in stages, the first were structural works, completed in October 2021, after which the weight restriction was lifted. Then, they resurfaced the bridge and repainted the whole steel structure. It features a new paint scheme.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The newest report on the 'rijkswegen' (national roads, i.e. motorways and a few N-roads) is out.

They say that Rijkswaterstaat has switched to 'floating car data' for traffic congestion data since 2 February 2022. They used to rely on induction loops and other sensors to gather that information. Google, ANWB, TomTom, etc. already used floating car data for years.

The report says that floating car data shows 40% more traffic congestion than is recorded through traditional methods of data gathering (the loops & sensors). So the level of traffic congestion in the Netherlands is higher than reported over the past 20 years.

Of course, one need to clarify the definition of traffic congestion. The traditional definition in the Netherlands is a minimum of 2 kilometers of traffic going slower than 50 km/h. With floating car data, traffic going 70-80 instead of 100+ is often also detected as a traffic jam (typically orange on Google Maps). The question is how much of that 40% additional traffic congestion falls in the latter category, and would thus not qualify for the traditional definition of traffic congestion.

Urban traffic congestion is more difficult to quantify, as the data becomes more cluttered with conventional queues for traffic signals. For example TomTom shows congestion levels in cities even in the middle of the night when there is practically nobody on the roads.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The A24 motorway is progressing on the west side of Rotterdam. It consists of a short motorway link between A15 and A20. However it's quite a complex project due to a large river crossing and below grade location on the north shore. 

Some photos from the project website from August 2022.

North shore









South shore









Rozenburg interchange A15/A24









Vlaardingen interchange A20/A24


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A motion passed in parliament this evening to cease tolling at the Westerschelde Tunnel (N62) by 2025.









Westerscheldetunnel moet uiterlijk in 2025 tolvrij zijn, vinden alle partijen in de Tweede Kamer


De Tweede Kamer wil dat de Westerscheldetunnel uiterlijk in 2025 tolvrij wordt voor personenauto's en motoren. Een voorstel daarvoor van SGP, ChristenUnie, CDA, SP en BBB is donderdagavond door alle Kamerleden gesteund.




www.pzc.nl





It was originally planned to lift the tolls in 2033, it was then moved up to 2030 to coincide with the introduction of a nationwide kilometer charge. There has long been political pressure to de-toll the tunnel earlier than that and it now got a majority.

The Westerschelde Tunnel is a 6.6 kilometer, twin-tube tunnel under the Westerschelde (Western Scheldt) in Zeeland province. It is the only access to the rest of the Netherlands for the Zeeuws-Vlaanderen area south of the estuary. Originally there were only car ferries, but these ceased operation once the tunnel opened in 2003. It is the longest road tunnel in the Netherlands. It is also the deepest road tunnel at -60 meters.


----------



## Wilhem275

So, who's going to pay for that and how much?


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## Bastiaan85

Same as for all the other toll free roads in this country?


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## ChrisZwolle

A12:


A12 Maarsbergen - Veenendaal 01 by European Roads, on Flickr


A12 Maarsbergen - Veenendaal 02 by European Roads, on Flickr


A12 Maarsbergen - Veenendaal 04 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ChrisZwolle said:


> A motion passed in parliament this evening to cease tolling at the Westerschelde Tunnel (N62) by 2025.


An interesting add: the motion passed with 150 votes in favor, which means unanimous support among every single party in parliament. 

I'm not sure if there has ever been an infrastructure or traffic policy motion passed with 100% in favor.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There was an open day at the new Corbulo Tunnel yesterday. It's a 2.5 kilometer, twin-tube tunnel which will serve as a connection between A4 and A44 on the south side of Leiden. It is numbered as provincial road N434.

The tunnel was originally scheduled for completion in late 2022, however the official deadline has moved up to 2024 and might be even later. They had a devastating fire in a warehouse last June, where quite a bit of tunnel equipment was destroyed. This is equipment you don't buy off the shelf, this needs to be ordered and with today's supply chain issues, could take quite long to be delivered.

They got into a hype of naming things after Roman figures. This is the Corbulo Tunnel, there is a nearby Limes Aquaduct and there is the Tacitus Bridge. These infrastructures are all on the northern border of the Roman empire in the Netherlands (Rhine River).


IMG_7813 by Benjamin van der Velden, on Flickr


IMG_7744 by Benjamin van der Velden, on Flickr


IMG_7693 by Benjamin van der Velden, on Flickr


IMG_7653 by Benjamin van der Velden, on Flickr


IMG_7645 by Benjamin van der Velden, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Slagathor said:


> It's not surprising, imo. Our traffic safety policies are focused almost entirely on situations where there are conflicts between different modes of transportation. Motorways don't fall into that category and are therefore a bit of a blind spot.


Trees along roads are a topic at the local level, but the installation of crash barriers often falls into disagreement, weighing the benefits to traffic safety, aesthetics and whether it would induce people to drive a bit faster. It's a trade-off whether traffic going 3 km/h faster is more dangerous than a crash with a tree. 

The road 'Kanaal Zuid' near Apeldoorn is often a topic of debate, there is an 80 km/h road with big trees close to the roadway and a deep canal. With no protection system.









A problem with crash barriers along such roads is the fact that they have driveway access, which means the crash barrier will be interrupted, creating fairly dangerous endpoints, where you need to install a crash attenuator terminal, but they often don't do that due to cost.

Another issue are wooden crash barriers. These are considered to be better aesthetically, but they are a hazard themselves beause they are likely to shatter into pieces, creating flying objects, which is a danger to other vehicles or cyclists / pedestrians.


----------



## Cookiefabric

Suburbanist said:


> Are there any RWS plans for eletric autosnelwegen with cantenary poles for trucks on the right lane, like in Germany?


Those are more seen as an obstacle rather then being useful. The focus is more on EV-cars and charging spots

So, no


----------



## Slagathor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Trees along roads are a topic at the local level, but the installation of crash barriers often falls into disagreement, weighing the benefits to traffic safety, aesthetics and whether it would induce people to drive a bit faster. It's a trade-off whether traffic going 3 km/h faster is more dangerous than a crash with a tree.
> 
> The road 'Kanaal Zuid' near Apeldoorn is often a topic of debate, there is an 80 km/h road with big trees close to the roadway and a deep canal. With no protection system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A problem with crash barriers along such roads is the fact that they have driveway access, which means the crash barrier will be interrupted, creating fairly dangerous endpoints, where you need to install a crash attenuator terminal, but they often don't do that due to cost.
> 
> Another issue are wooden crash barriers. These are considered to be better aesthetically, but they are a hazard themselves beause they are likely to shatter into pieces, creating flying objects, which is a danger to other vehicles or cyclists / pedestrians.


That's an 80 km/h road? That's... terrifying. 

Of course I'm from Zeeland I'm not used to that type of road so maybe it's different if you grow up with them. Our landscape is much more open so the whole trees-along-the-road thing is a lot less prevalent here.

But yeah this is the type of road that would go decades without improvements to the general safety because A) it's complicated and expensive, like you said, and B) there's no conflict with other modes of transport, therefore it isn't a priority.


----------



## Bastiaan85

Slagathor said:


> It's not surprising, imo. Our traffic safety policies are focused almost entirely on situations where there are conflicts between different modes of transportation. Motorways don't fall into that category and are therefore a bit of a blind spot.


It's true that the first policies orginiated from intervehicular dangers, but it's certainly not the case that they are that focussed on this still. For example mandatory seatbelts, airbags, child seats etc were clearly not enforced to reduce conflicts with other 'modes of transportation'.

In this case it's just that the guidelines for motorway barrier placements are now based on the amount of flat area behind the road, in other words considering a mindful driver being able to stop their still functional vehicle when running off the road. They don't account for driver impairment and/or vehicle malfunction.


Suburbanist said:


> Are there any RWS plans for eletric autosnelwegen with cantenary poles for trucks on the right lane, like in Germany?


Not that I know of. Iirc the last project from the Ministry in that regard (RWS is just the executive entity) was 'smart' truck platooning, but I'm not aware of any fruitful results from that either.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Apeldoorn, the construction of a railroad underpass at the ring road.

Friday:









5 days later:


----------



## Stuu

ChrisZwolle said:


> And this location doesn't have a crash barrier, which raises questions about how serious Dutch policies really are towards traffic safety. The Dutch like to pride themselves on being so serious on traffic safety, but accidents like these, where a crash barrier would made obvious sense, are too common.


That is just odd. The hazard is so obviously the outside of the bend, anyone can see that. Is there some rule to do with the distance to the water perhaps? So following the rules rather than common sense?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A photo of the 'Afsluitdijk', the dam that stretches from North Holland to Friesland. A7 runs across it. The dam has been reinforced over the past few years, to withstand higher storm surges.


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## Suburbanist

Did they consider leaving space for a railway link during the renovation?


----------



## Slagathor

What is this "railway" thing you speak of?


----------



## Cookiefabric

@Slagathor When this Afsluitdijk was built, the idea was a single track railway and a single road carriageway. The railway never came and the single carriageway turned into a full profile motorway (with some "substandard sections")

@Suburbanist No, there is no space reservation for even a single track. The improved railway link nowadays goes via Lelystad and is known under the name "HanzeLijn". Even the Hanzelijn is a left over from the "Zuiderzeelijn" (A higher speed link between Groningen and A'dam)


----------



## Suburbanist

Slagathor said:


> What is this "railway" thing you speak of?


I was thinking of some future project to connect Leeuwarden and Hoorn in the future. FryslânRail or something like that


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A rail link across the Afsluitdijk is not in any plans and I don't think it has been in any plans after World War II. 

It would require a huge investment to widen the dam to accommodate a railway, not to mention the solution at the shipping locks on either end. They're not going to do that if there isn't a solid plan for the construction of such a railway. 

Nowadays the Lely Railway Line is contemplated, resembling the earlier Zuiderzee Line through Flevoland, Friesland and into Groningen. But I have my doubts whether it would actually be built. It's easy to make political statements that advocate for it, but once the money needs to be allocated, things get more difficult. There might also be more pressing priorities in regards to railways (the stability of embankments on existing rail lines is an increasing point of concern and this could prove to be extremely costly).


----------



## Slagathor

Cookiefabric said:


> @Slagathor When this Afsluitdijk was built, the idea was a single track railway and a single road carriageway. The railway never came and the single carriageway turned into a full profile motorway (with some "substandard sections")


Exactly.

In this country, the car is king.


----------



## M-NL

ChrisZwolle said:


> A rail link across the Afsluitdijk is not in any plans and I don't think it has been in any plans after World War II.
> 
> It would require a huge investment to widen the dam to accommodate a railway, not to mention the solution at the shipping locks on either end.


Simple solution: Remove 2 car lanes and build a single track railway there.
Intermediate solution: Streetrunning. Integrate the tracks in the road.
More difficult solution: Stacking. Build the railway on top of the existing road and raise them at the ends to bridge the locks?


----------



## Cookiefabric

Slagathor said:


> Exactly.
> 
> In this country, the car Bike is king.


FTFY


----------



## PovilD

Aren't people talking is car non-friendly place with all these reservations for cyclists and greenery?


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## Slagathor

PovilD said:


> Aren't people talking is car non-friendly place with all these reservations for cyclists and greenery?


Anyone who tells you the Netherlands is car-unfriendly has been brainwashed by the car lobby.

We spent decades adding a few bicycle lanes here and there. That doesn't fundamentally change the fact that the entire country is built for cars.

New business parks are built along the motorways and often get their own on- and off-ramps. New residential areas come with a required number of parking spaces. Motorways and expressways continue to be built and widened at a frantic pace. Hundreds of millions of euros continue to be invested in underground parking garages even in historic city centers (rather than park-and-ride solutions).

It's all about cars.


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## Cookiefabric

@Slagathor I guess you haven't been here for a while.
Many former railroads has been transformed into _drum roll_ cyclist paths (because it's the cheapest option to meet regulations)

Also, in the last 10 years car parking capacity in city centers are being reduced and newspapers are even reporting wounded people due to the lack of car parking. If cities really had made more underground parking, this reports wouldn't have happened (which is not the case).


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## ChrisZwolle

Cookiefabric said:


> and newspapers are even reporting wounded people due to the lack of car parking.


Huh?


----------



## Cookiefabric

ChrisZwolle said:


> Huh?


Neighbours are fighting about a (public street) parking spot. I'm aware of cases in Utrecht, Haarlem, Amsterdam and Amersfoort.


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## Cookiefabric

The tunnel is a dual carriageway (and even has a climbing lane for slower heavier traffic), the connecting N217 on _Hoekse Waard_ is a regular highway / single carriageway / "main road" with roundabouts, traffic lights and so on -- Completely NOT suitable for carrying ~25k to 45k AADT.

Weirdly enough is the N217 on the Dordrecht does have 2 lanes per direction which might handle this better (hint: The N3 expressway is ending at that point, which is the grey road line through Dordrecht)


----------



## Suburbanist

ChrisZwolle said:


> That ferry is the only connection between two municipalities with a combined population of 170,000.
> 
> It's weird that a bridge connection has never been built across the Spui River.


I once heard that this is because the island is the wealthiest area in Rotterdam surroundings and that they don't want the corner of their island to just become an extension of Spijkenisse (a lower-income suburb of Rotterdam at the end of one of its metro lines). 

Isn't there a second ferry across the Maas in Havenbuurt?

Speaking of Rotterdam connections, it amazes me that still there is no plan to enlarge the N210 bridge to Krimpen a/d IJssel. If that narrow bridge needs to be closed, a lot of people will become isolated unless they want to take a huge detour through Gorichem.


----------



## keokiracer

Suburbanist said:


> Isn't there a second ferry across the Maas in Havenbuurt?


Yes, but that is pedestrian/cyclists only.


----------



## Cookiefabric

Suburbanist said:


> 1) I once heard that this is because the island is the wealthiest area in Rotterdam surroundings and that they don't want the corner of their island to just become an extension of Spijkenisse (a lower-income suburb of Rotterdam at the end of one of its metro lines).
> 
> [...]
> 
> 2) Speaking of Rotterdam connections, it amazes me that still there is no plan to enlarge the N210 bridge to Krimpen a/d IJssel. If that narrow bridge needs to be closed, a lot of people will become isolated unless they want to take a huge detour through Gorichem.


1) I'm not aware about this. I do know that the City of Hellevoetsluis doesn't want the metro line for those reason and they want to keep the "weed smoking troubles" out.
2) Plans are existing in the shape of extending the A38 (in several options, like single carriageway, expressway, motorway and so on) towards Krimpen a/d IJssel. The soil conditions are difficult ("soaked clay") and makes also the main reason that nothing has been done with those plans (aka very expensive)


----------



## Suburbanist

Cookiefabric said:


> 2) Plans are existing in the shape of extending the A38 (in several options, like single carriageway, expressway, motorway and so on) towards Krimpen a/d IJssel. The soil conditions are difficult ("soaked clay") and makes also the main reason that nothing has been done with those plans (aka very expensive)


A tunnel is probably a better option then.


In unrelated topic: I read that the plan to put the railway tracks in the middle of A10 underground is now moving forward. 10 years after they were suspended, then canceled (leaving only the highway lanes to be put underground).


----------



## Coccodrillo

Cookiefabric said:


> @ChrisZwolle besides the Kiltunnel (tol) there is another option to get off _Hoekse Waard_, but it's not an high capacity option:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> about 40 cars per crossing, 3 times a hour sailing
> This sails between the town of Nieuw-Beijerland and the city of Spijkenisse


I didn't notice there was basically just A29 and one tunnel to that island, now I understand.

I also didn't know of that extremely short ferry connection. If they welded together a couple of these ferries they would already bridge the gap quickly. Seriously, a ferry is 45 m long, the crossing is 115 m, it shouldn't be difficult to build a bridge there, and it would be cheaper in the long run than operating a ferry.


----------



## Cookiefabric

@Coccodrillo I'm not aware what the usual amount of AADT is to convert/change a inland ferry for a bridge (in countries like Norway).
The traffic counter shows about 8 to 9k AADT (period 2000 - 2019), but there is a little "noise" since it's also the entrance to 4 small apartment blocks 

Ignore that AADT number. 100 sailings a day with 40 cars is not even close to that number


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Cookiefabric said:


> I'm not aware what the usual amount of AADT is to convert/change a inland ferry for a bridge (in countries like Norway).


10 year old data from Norway: Lijst van veerdiensten in Noorwegen - Wegenwiki


----------



## woutero

Suburbanist said:


> In unrelated topic: I read that the plan to put the railway tracks in the middle of A10 underground is now moving forward. 10 years after they were suspended, then canceled (leaving only the highway lanes to be put underground).


Where did you read this? I don't think it is correct. The plans are still the same (A10 in tunnel, railway, metro and station above ground), but there is now funding secured for an extra platform (giving it higher capacity for international trains), and for the extension of the Noord-Zuidlijn (metro 52) from Amsterdam-Zuid station to Schiphol Airport (taking pressure off the Schiphol Airport train station and the railway lines between Amsterdam and the airport).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The original Zuidasdok plan was to put everything underground: the motorway, railway & subway. But the staggering cost of that led to the decision to put only A10 in a tunnel. Even so, the current cost estimate has already exploded to € 5.5 billion, which is probably the most expensive transportation project ever in the Netherlands, relative to the geographical size of the project.


----------



## Slagathor

Just get rid of that section of the A10 altogether then. Drivers can take the A9.


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## ChrisZwolle

That segment of A10 is forecasted to become the largest bottleneck in the region if nothing is done.

It's kind of odd that Amsterdam has such a bicycle image / culture, where 'nobody needs a car to get around' (loads of videos like that on YouTube), but this part of A10, which mostly carries traffic to and from the city, is actually one of the busiest roads in Europe.

The 2019 traffic volume was 234,000 vehicles per day.


----------



## Bastiaan85

If most people working at or around Amsterdam would also be living in the city then that would make sense, but fact remains loads live farther away. Just look at the 'waves' of traffic during rush our on all connecting roads (A9, A7, A1, A2, A4), it's like half the Randstad is first driving to, then from Amsterdam and its surrounding towns each day.


----------



## Suburbanist

Slagathor said:


> Just get rid of that section of the A10 altogether then. Drivers can take the A9.


Then you'd have permanent gridlock there and a couple hundred thousand people living and working in the perimeter would suffer a lot.


----------



## Slagathor

"There would be gridlock around the clock!" lol I can hear people laughing in Eindhoven.


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> That segment of A10 is forecasted to become the largest bottleneck in the region if nothing is done.
> 
> It's kind of odd that Amsterdam has such a bicycle image / culture, where 'nobody needs a car to get around' (loads of videos like that on YouTube), but this part of A10, which mostly carries traffic to and from the city, is actually one of the busiest roads in Europe.
> 
> The 2019 traffic volume was 234,000 vehicles per day.


Do you have the numbers as for how much of the traffic is a traffic to/from the city? How much of the traffic that goes from Northeast to Southwest takes A10. I do most certainly anytime I drive those directions. The navigations send people to A10, not to A9.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Here's traffic volume data: GeoWeb 5.5

You might want to set it to 2019 to filter out the covid effects.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The expansion and bridge replacement on A27 has been provisionally awarded to a consortium called 'ALSÉÉN', consisting of Ballast-Nedam and Fluor.

The most advantageous bid was € 97 million over budget, but they decided to proceed anyway, given that this is one of the few projects that cannot be recalled over nitrogen issues.

This is the southern contract of the A27 expansion, from the Hooipolder interchange (A59) to the Everdingen interchange (A2). The largest works are the replacement of the Keizersveer Bridge across the Bergse Maas River, and the replacement of the Merwede Bridge at Gorinchem. These bridge crossings will consume nearly the entire budget, so the remaining six lane widening will be in the form of shoulder lanes.

A problem with construction in this area is the very soft soil, so a physical expansion of the roadway would require expensive piling. This is one of the reasons to maintain the current cross section for most of the motorway. However portions will be expanded to 4 lanes per direction around bridges.

The Merwede Bridge is designed for 2x4 lanes. The Keizersveer Bridge will also be designed for 2x4 lanes, but both bridges will feature 4+3 lanes to feed into the shoulder lanes for now. It has been acknowledged that this 'cheap' capacity expansion will not be sufficient long-term, but funding is lacking for a proper upgrade, as the bridge replacements will consume most of the budget allocated to A27.

Another contract is still out to bid for the Everdingen - Houten segment, which also includes two bridges.


----------



## Stuu

Will they be getting rid of the traffic lights at the A59?


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## Cookiefabric

Hooipolder is part of this, although it might still take a few years before those are gone


----------



## da_scotty

Stuu said:


> Will they be getting rid of the traffic lights at the A59?


I believe partly, not a full option.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This is planned for the Hooipolder motorway interchange (A27/A59).

So only one connector ramp for eastbound to northbound traffic.

In typical The Hague politics it is a project where two national motorways meet, so they decided that the province should pay for almost the entire upgrade.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Rehabilitation of the A12 Galecopper Bridge in Utrecht. This bridge has 12 lanes and carries 230,000 vehicles per day.


----------



## Rover030

ChrisZwolle said:


> A temporary bridge has been built on A9 in Amstelveen. They built it over the temporary diverging diamond interchange.
> 
> A9 will be widened to 2x4 lanes, but it will be built below grade through Amstelveen, while keeping traffic running.


Are there any other examples of a DDI with an additional road connected to it like here? I guess it's not ideal for capacity, but in this way you could also convert parclo interchanges with an additional road at the intersection to a DDI, if wanted. In terms of safety, this is more like a regular intersection in a way.


----------



## Bastiaan85

You can find some irregular DSI's like that in the US, like https://i.redd.it/sgfe1wyn1hm11.png at Lee's Summit, Missouri.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A possibly major problem is occurring on A7 at the Princess Margriet Tunnel east of Sneek. The western tunnel entrance is being pushed upwards. The last time this happened in the Netherlands (A58, Vlake Tunnel, 2010), the anchors broke off, which is a major challenge to repair as it is not accessible. The high ground water table in the Netherlands creates immense upward pressure on structures built below grade.


----------



## Surel

^^
The water would not be the problem if it did not freeze I think. However the water froze these days and I guess it lifted the ground under the carriageway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Update: they still don't know the cause of the tunnel segment pushing upward. 

They have installed 1,000 bigbags with sand on it, it probably weighs somewhere between 1,000 and 1,500 tonnes.










The tunnel segment which was ejected upward.


----------



## General Maximus

Furthermore, they have no idea how long the road will remain closed. Are we talking days? Weeks? Months?
Traffic appears to be coping well - I happen to be in the region right now...


----------



## Cookiefabric

Squeezing 18 to 26k AADT on a single lane config (2x1) is not considered a challenge here -- It remains The Netherlands after all 

Accoording to latest data this section of motorway is having a number of 32 to 35k AADT, which already explains that it isn't the biggest issue in the region.


----------



## General Maximus

@Cookiefabric true, but I remember those tailbacks on the Afsluitdijk due to simple lane closures. I'd imagine that the A7 section at Joure is a bit busier, with diverted traffic having to use the A32/N31 for Afsluitdijk and also the A32 up to Grou and then local routes for Sneek and beyond.


----------



## Cookiefabric

General Maximus said:


> @Cookiefabric true, but I remember those tailbacks on the Afsluitdijk due to simple lane closures. I'd imagine that the A7 section at Joure is a bit busier, with diverted traffic having to use the A32/N31 for Afsluitdijk and also the A32 up to Grou and then local routes for Sneek and beyond.


This piece of failure has enough options to go around with a limited amount of extra distance. That Afsluitdijk is another thing, since the nearest next option is the Lelystad-Enkhuizen road OR fully go around (~ 1 to 2h extra?) and the Afsluitdijk did remain open (here it's full closure)

1 advice as well: Upcoming summer, stay away from Oud-Beijerland (_Hoekse Waard)_. All the ingredients for a serious traffic sh** are there:
Full closure of the A29/A4/N59 bridge (Haringvlietbrug) at the start of summer, start of renovation of the Heinoordtunnel (A29) which includes also full closure for at least 3 out of 6 lanes (both directions). Both sections carry over 50K AADT with only a few options to get rerouted.

Save yourself some stress, stay away from Rotterdam - Bergen-op-Zoom/Roosendaal/Breda routes


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## ChrisZwolle

Rijkswaterstaat has now confirmed that some of the anchors of the tunnel segment broke off. This is a major challenge to repair, as it is normally inaccessible (they are below the tunnel floor). It will likely be a multi-month closure. 

They placed 1,700 bigbags with sand on them. Each weighs somewhere between 1 and 1.5 ton. This is to create downward pressure to prevent the tunnel from ejecting upwards and potentially flooding the whole tunnel.


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## General Maximus

The closure of the A7 between Joure and Sneek is now expected to last several months. Cause: excessive groundwater raising the asphalt causing the lower tunnel piece to be raised as well. 

The love/hate relationship between the Netherlands and water is still ongoing.


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## MattiG

ChrisZwolle said:


> Rijkswaterstaat has now confirmed that some of the anchors of the tunnel segment broke off. This is a major challenge to repair, as it is normally inaccessible (they are below the tunnel floor). It will likely be a multi-month closure.
> 
> They placed 1,700 bigbags with sand on them. Each weighs somewhere between 1 and 1.5 ton. This is to create downward pressure to prevent the tunnel from ejecting upwards and potentially flooding the whole tunnel.


How is that tunnel constructed? A concrete tube digged in the earth and anchored to concrete blocks?


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## Slagathor

MattiG said:


> How is that tunnel constructed? A concrete tube digged in the earth and anchored to concrete blocks?


One does not 'dig in earth' in the Netherlands. One must dig in muddy water.


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## ChrisZwolle

It's an immersed tube. Actually constructed in-situ in the eastern tunnel entrance, because the canal isn't wide enough to transport the element from another location.


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## keber

Aparently it was not designed ok, but we don't know all the circumstances. Usually if there is a large underground water pressure especially around entrances, you build enough thick and heavy base slab to balance loads. In this case they apparetly chose to balance loads with anchors (maybe to save construction cost). But geology and especially hydrogeology in often unpredictable long-term.


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## Klausenburg

I really miss Melanie Schultz van Haegen as a Transportation Minister... Back then I was coming to this thread just to see the progress of so many projects...


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## Bastiaan85

The current delays all stem from funding and nitrogen deposition issues (especially impact evaluation of new projects). Not really something that you can tie to the head of the department.


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