# EURO2008 VS EURO2012



## Carrerra (Mar 13, 2008)

*EURO 2008 VS EURO 2012*

*[EURO 2008]*

*[Switzerland]*

Stade de Genève (31,124)


















Stade de Suisse Wankdorf (32,000) 









St. Jakob Park (41,500)


















Letzigrund Stadium (30,000)









*[Austria]*

Tivoli Neu Stadium (30,000)









Wals-Siezenheim Stadium (30,000)


















Hypo Group Arena (32,000)


















Ernst Happel Stadium (48,844)



















*[EURO 2012]* 

*[Poland]*

Polish National Stadium (55,000)


















Poznan Municipal Stadium (46,000) 


















Wroclaw Stadium (44,000)


















Baltic Arena (44,000)


















Silesian Stadium (47,246) - Reserve Stadium









Wisla Stadium (35,000) - Reserve Stadium









*[Ukraine]*

Olympic Stadium (83,450)


















Shakhtar Stadium (50,000)


















Ukraina Stadium (32,000)


















Dnipro Stadium (31,000)


















Metalist Stadium (41,111) - Reserve Stadium









Tsentralnyi-Chornomorets Stadium (35,000) - Reserve Stadium


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## El Vampiro Ucraniano (Mar 29, 2007)

Euro 2012 is going to be the most attended Euro of all time, but in therms of organisation, infrastructure and ect i doubt that we will be able to compete against Austria & Switzerland.


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## Quintana (Dec 27, 2005)

EURO 2012 has the better stadiums on paper but at least the EURO 2008 ones were all finished well on time, something that remains to be seen for 2012. The general infrastructure in 2012 will be disgraceful and the whole tournament is likely to become a disaster. No football fan minds having to spend time in Geneva or Klagenfurt but a lot would rather stay home than having to go to Donetsk or Dnipropetrovsk


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## Witkowski (Feb 11, 2008)

Euro 2012 is better the stadiums are bigger and better, and in the end the Infrastructure of the cities will be fine. There has been a slow start, but everything will get done definintely. Also, are you sure thats the right Interior of Shakhtar's stadium? It looks awfully real


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## christoph (Jul 4, 2005)

the one is a pic of allianz arena, isnt it?


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## michał_ (Mar 8, 2007)

christoph- yes it is 



Quintana said:


> EURO 2012 has the better stadiums on paper but *at least the EURO 2008 ones were all finished well on time*, something that remains to be seen for 2012. The general infrastructure in 2012 will be disgraceful and the whole tournament is likely to become a disaster. No football fan minds having to spend time in Geneva or Klagenfurt but a lot would rather stay home than having to go to Donetsk or Dnipropetrovsk


Are you kidding? which stadium of the E2008 was finished well on time?
First deadline set by UEFA was made 2 years before the competition, so it was 30.06.2006. Therefore Letzigrund's 30.08.2007 or Klagenfurt's 7.09.2007 is not only after the ifrst (2 year) deadline, but also after the 2nd (1 year) deadline that applies in this situation. 
While in Poland construction on 2 stadiums is currently ongoing and all remaining 4 are to start this year. Ukraine's Donetsk, Kharkiv and Dniepropetrovsk stadiums are "close to being ready" and only Kiev and Lviv might be running out of time.

As for your selection of cities to go to. I know poverty scares some people off, but football isn't about 5-star hotels, is it? It isn't about choosing the most beautiful cities only. I've been to Geneva, been to the reserve Odessa and would definately go for Odessa between those two. I've been to Bern, Zurich, Vienna, Salzburg, Innsbruck- all charming cities with great architecture. But I don't think Kiev, Lviv, Odessa, Wroclaw, Gdansk, Poznan, Krakow or Warsaw may really be afraid of a comparison. We all have our problems, but for me visiting Ukraine was among the best adventures of a lifetime, visiting Austria and Switzerland- not. (personal opinion of course)
Can't say about donetsk and Dniepropetrovsk (I am planning to go there in August though), but I have a simple advice for those who mind going there: stay at home if you mind so much, but think over what is so discouraging about these places. Not every city has to be one big SPA.


And my choice went to our joint bid. I think Poland and Ukraine have a few advantages that I appreciate:

1. Diversity. We have 2 cities located by the seas, and those are 2 different seas. We have huge bussiness cities like Kiev or Warsaw with skyscrapers groing wherever they find a spot and small, cosy charming and welcoming Lviv. We have the monstrous historical value of completely different old towns in Krakow, Wroclaw, Poznan, Odessa contrasted with heavy industrial surroundings of Chorzow, Donetsk and Dniepropetrovsk. I've been only to Chorzow of these 3, but can assure everyone it has still it's charm and I think that to people not knowing post-soviet architecture it might be even a treat.

2. Scale. Both on the map and in terms of stadiums. If it wasn't for Krakow, Lviv and Dniepropetrovsk, we "could as well" (of course we couldn't in real life  ) host a World Cup with final venue for 85000, 4 stadiums with 50000+ and 4 stadiums with 40000+.
Plus, these are stadiums of generally high class designs with teams like world-reknown architects of JSK, GMP or Albert Wimmer, with a few smaller, but still recognized names.

Austria and Switzerland are also great hosts, but their stadiums are a lot smaller, their architecture isn't as captivating as of our stadiums (for me, of course with exceptions like Basel or Zurich). And they've got the infrastructure we wouldn't build in the next 20 years... but if someone comes to European championships for infrastructure, then I really feel sorry for people like this.


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

Quintana said:


> EURO 2012 has the better stadiums on paper but at least the EURO 2008 ones were all finished well on time, something that remains to be seen for 2012. The general infrastructure in 2012 will be disgraceful and the whole tournament is likely to become a disaster. No football fan minds having to spend time in Geneva or Klagenfurt but a lot would rather stay home than having to go to Donetsk or Dnipropetrovsk


First of all, Euro 2012 stadiums are going to be finished earlier in relation to the championship than Euro 2008 stadiums :lol:

And second of all, as it was already said, it's going to be the most attended Euro of all time. It doesn't matter if Dutchies won't come to Donetsk and Dnipropetrovsk, because there's more than enough Ukrainians and Poles to attend :banana:

Going to be the best Euro of all time :cheers:


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## Kaspers (Apr 20, 2008)

Are all of those stadiums for 2012 confirmed? or is it possible that we wont see some of them in 2012


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## Energy2003 (Jun 13, 2007)

having a look at computer animations isn´t the same then be there.

which stadium ´s better in real we see at the END of 2012. and never forget the whole infrastructure


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## michał_ (Mar 8, 2007)

Kaspers said:


> Are all of those stadiums for 2012 confirmed? or is it possible that we wont see some of them in 2012


It is possible as there are 12 stadiums prepared but UEFA didn't decide yet whether to llow more stadium or just have a standby list of grounds ready to take over. but this doesn't mean they won't exist.

I'll try to describe briefly the stage we are in:
*Warsaw*: first poles are already dug in the ground, but it's testing. Over 2000 poles to support the construction will be dug in, starting august. The "real construction" will start this year, hopefully early winter.
*Poznan*: the renderings we see here are not final. As you can see the stands were shown only symbolically, it's not how they will look in the end of course. Currently 3rd tier over "II stand" is being constructed, bidding procedure for ocmplete reconstruction of 2 remaining stands has either started or is to start very soon.
*Wroclaw*: I don't remember clearly what's going on there. Surely the "milestone" (?) has been dug in the ground for the stadium. The terrain is either already being cleared, or will be very soon.
*Gdansk*: Like Wroclaw.
*Krakow*: 2 new stands and multimedia pavilion already standing, old eastern stand is just being demolished and around September construction of it's new version should start. Around spring next year- construction of the 4th stand. All will be ready by the end of 2010.
*Chorzow*: I'm not sure if GMP already delivered the final construction design of the new roof and extra infrastructure, but I guess it should start this year as well. If not, it might be next year, but the works here won't be as extensive as in other cases, so less time is needed.

Anyone could say more ab out ukrainian stadiums?
I only now that Dniepropetrovsk will be open in August this year with Ukraine-Poland fixture  
Donetsk in 2009 (?)
Kiev 12.2011 (?) (and what is it's capacity in the end? Is the shopping centre torn down already and did the dismantling of old stands begin already?)
Odessa old stadium being torn down as we speak.
Kharkiv in pretty good shape, more works there to come.
Lviv just selected it's design, but construction is to start still this year...
Anythign more or anything wrong?


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## Carrerra (Mar 13, 2008)

Kaspers said:


> Are all of those stadiums for 2012 confirmed? or is it possible that we wont see some of them in 2012


Of course we won't see 4 reserve stadiums if everything goes as expected becuase they are only a backup to designated stadiums ^^


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

Also, I don't know what western Europeans think of when they hear Dnipropetrovsk and Donetsk (eastern Ukrainian cities), but in reality they're some of the fastest changing cities in Europe.

Dnipro is one of Europe's future main skyscrapers cities which a lot of various modern architecture





















































Sorry for the offtopic pictures...


Also, I hear a lot of talk about horrible infrastructure. KYIV, DNIPRO, KHARKIV and DONETSK will all have functioning underground subway systems by 2012. Well, the first three are just expanding theirs, but Donetsk is opening its system in 2011. 

And if you're _afraid_ to come to Polish and/or Ukrainian cities, you should also stay home and not go out on the street either, who knows what awaits you there.


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

Carrerra said:


> Of course we won't see 4 reserve stadiums if everything goes as expected becuase they are only a backup to designated stadiums ^^


Both reserve stadiums in Ukraine are an 100% reality for 2012. One of them is nearly complete, the other is ongoing construction.


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## Gherkin (May 30, 2005)

Based on stadia design alone, that was probably the easiest poll I've ever had to fill out on SCC. Saying that, the smaller capacity and cheaper designs of the Euro 2008 stadiums will be much better in the long run than the showcase stadiums of 2012.


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

I think, the design of the EURO 2008 stadiums is quite smart. Sure, they aren't the prettiest and largest of Europe, but they fit the needs of the leagues very good. And regarding that there are probably several million requests for tickets, it doesn't make much difference between a 30,000-stadium and a 50,000-stadium. That's better than every second club would be run down within five years because they have to pay huge stadiums.

Regarding organization and infrastructure, it will probably a hard challenge for Poland and Ukraine to beat Austria and Switzerland.


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## MoreOrLess (Feb 17, 2005)

thun said:


> I think, the design of the EURO 2008 stadiums is quite smart. Sure, they aren't the prettiest and largest of Europe, but they fit the needs of the leagues very good. And regarding that there are probably several million requests for tickets, it doesn't make much difference between a *30,000-stadium and a 50,000-stadium*. That's better than every second club would be run down within five years because they have to pay huge stadiums.
> 
> Regarding organization and infrastructure, it will probably a hard challenge for Poland and Ukraine to beat Austria and Switzerland.


For the 20,000 people who don't get tickets I'm sure it makes a big difference. Also remember several thousand tickets are taken up by media, corperates, RIP's etc so the actual number of seats on offer to real fans is much less than 30,000 so a 50,000 seat stadium might actually offer twice as many.


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## masterpaul (Jun 27, 2007)

Some better images for polish euro stadiums:

Gdansk, Baltic Arena:














































Wroclaw:
























Warsaw:















































Poznan:

























Chorzow reserve venue:




























I think the infastructure will be better in 2012


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## masterpaul (Jun 27, 2007)

Carrerra said:


> Of course we won't see 4 reserve stadiums if everything goes as expected becuase they are only a backup to designated stadiums ^^



The reserve sadiums will be built anyway, u see. There a lot of factors which might put a stadium out of use. Weather for example (pitch becomes unusable).


Also, poland is fighting so that euro will be played on more then 8 stadiums. Same amount of teams but more stadiums.


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## Carrerra (Mar 13, 2008)

I hope so. To be frank I want Euro 2012 matches played in all 12 stadiums including 4 reserve ones!


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## marrio415 (Jun 18, 2006)

i like the planned stadia for 2012 and they are big for a euro championships but are they gonna be finacially sustainable in the long term.will the clubs be able to fiancially maintain them.It aint cheap.Also will the clubs occupying these stadia after be able to fill them week in week out.


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## michał_ (Mar 8, 2007)

marrio415 said:


> i like the planned stadia for 2012 and they are big for a euro championships but are they gonna be finacially sustainable in the long term.will the clubs be able to fiancially maintain them.It aint cheap.Also will the clubs occupying these stadia after be able to fill them week in week out.


It's not up to the clubs. The stadiums are built by authorities nad will only be leased by the clubs. But to make it profitable for both sides cities have already began cooperation with clubs. Wrcoalw has just gained a huge sponsor (Groclin) able to make Slask a successive club that will be able to fight in the European cups within 1-2 years. They've just advanced to the Ekstraklasa and would have already played in UEFA Cup this year, but supporters said they wouldn't want the club to work as a franchise and so they decided not to.

Plus, elite companies like PriceWaterHouse Coopers or Earnst & young are working on the sustainability of the stadiums, so I wouldn't be much afraid about that. In the end, for Poland it's only 4 new big stadiums for a 40million country that has got barely one (and not really modern). There's a lot of activities to make them work just fine. I hope 
Don't know about Ukraine though.


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

Don't know if everyone had seen this one of the Donbas Arena (Shakhtar, Donetsk)





And if you weren't following and think this is a far away vision  ...











marrio415 said:


> i like the planned stadia for 2012 and they are big for a euro championships but are they gonna be finacially sustainable in the long term.will the clubs be able to fiancially maintain them.It aint cheap.Also will the clubs occupying these stadia after be able to fill them week in week out.


Ukrainian league is growing, popularity of football rises and the clubs that are involved partially (with government help) or fully, will definitely be able to maintain them, they're quite rich.

In fact, EURO 2012 or not, Arsenal Kyiv (rather small clubs in ukrainian league) has announced building a 60,000 seater with a retractable roof.


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## Carrerra (Mar 13, 2008)

Burislav said:


> In fact, EURO 2012 or not, Arsenal Kyiv (rather small clubs in ukrainian league) has announced building a 60,000 seater with a retractable roof.


Olympic stadium will get a major renovation for the Euro 2012 but Arsenal Kyiv will build a 60K seater with a retractable roof with or without it? Does that mean that the club won't use Olympic stadium any more? I haven't heard of it. If you have any news or renders about the 60K stadia, why don't you them share with us?


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

Carrerra said:


> Olympic stadium will get a major renovation for the Euro 2012 but Arsenal Kyiv will build a 60K seater with a retractable roof with or without it? Does that mean that the club won't use Olympic stadium any more? I haven't heard of it. If you have any news or renders about the 60K stadia, why don't you them share with us?


Yes, Olympic will be entirely reconstructed. Dynamo will probably build a new stadium for themselves too. And Arsenal announced a huge arena for themselves as well (although I don't think that they need it). 

Arsenal Kyiv stadium. capacity 60k-75k









I'm not sure whether or not it will be affiliated with Euro 2012 in any way or not. The club has recently got a new very rich owner


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## Carrerra (Mar 13, 2008)

Burislav said:


> Yes, Olympic will be entirely reconstructed. Dynamo will probably build a new stadium for themselves too. And Arsenal announced a huge arena for themselves as well (although I don't think that they need it).
> 
> Arsenal Kyiv stadium. capacity 60k-75k
> 
> ...


If arsenal really intend to build their own stadium it must have no running tracks, mustn't it? Olympic stadium has running tracks so they don't need another stadium with running tracks. Burislav, would you link the article about 60K stadium and sum it up in English if you don't mind?


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## railcity (Apr 4, 2007)

Of course, stadiums in Poland and Ukraine are more glorious. 

I really hope EURO 2012 will be a big success and was very happy that Ukraine and Poland got it. I know the two countries quite well.

I don't think that infrastructure or security will be an issue for the majority of the fans. 

For me the biggest Questions Mark is the development of the Leagues and if some stadiums are not too big for them. Of course, there are some big cities involved and for a special event like EURO, it will be not a problem to fill the stadia. But if the Leagues will be really booming that much remains to be seen. 

Current average attendance in the 1st Division of the 2008 & 2012 host countries is:

Switzerland: 11'000
Austria: 9'000
Ukraine: 8'000
Poland: 7'000

And Austria is planning to reduce the capacity of at least 2 of its comparably small stadiums after the Euro again!

Austria & Switzerland have together 16 Mio inhabitants, Poland & Ukraine have 84 Mio. Considering this factor, the attendance in their leagues is very low. On the other hand, it also means, there is much potential - new stadia will attract new segments of spectators - the question is: how many?


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## michał_ (Mar 8, 2007)

railcity said:


> Of course, stadiums in Poland and Ukraine are more glorious.
> 
> I really hope EURO 2012 will be a big success and was very happy that Ukraine and Poland got it. I know the two countries quite well.
> 
> ...


I must say, very fair comment.
But when analyzing the attendances, pleace take a look at how it changes:

2002/3 2003/4 2004/5 2005/6 2006/7 2007/8

Austria 5 285 7 216 6 757 7 664 8 022 9 338

Poland 5 142 5 492 5 230 5 522 6 707 7 321

As you can see Polish football had a big stagnation since the nineties, but since 2 years it's changing rapidly. And note that the biggest stadium in Poland last season didn't even hold 20 000 (Lech's stadium did for some time and for Silesian derby national stadium was used). Ekstraklasa is now breaking records of attendances that were established some 15 years ago. We're on the rise and this year big clubs from Wroclaw and Gdansk (Euro cities after all) again join the league.

Interest for top games in Krakow was estimated at over 50 000, the rise between 2007 and 2008 is 50%. Poznan are an inspiration for the rest of the league, they've introduced "western" policies that made them the most popular club in terms off attendance within a year (in 2007 they had a 77% increase in attendance). As for Wroclaw and Gdansk, the clubs aren't supposed to fill the Euro stadiums from the start, but it seems authorities and clubs have some ideas how to make it work. I'm not sure about National Stadium and Silesian Stadium (maybe it will be taken over by Ruch football club?), but I'm sure they can make it up with non-football events.

And most importantly, now almost every Ekstrakalsa and 2nd league club is thinking of changing their stadium, not counting on hosting Euro:
- Legia Warszawa should (let's hope so) start construction of their 34,5k stadium this year
- Gornik Zabrze that has just gained Allianz as sponsor is planning "Allianz Gornik Arena" for over 30 000, works should start next year
- The city of Rzeszow plans 2 stadiums for its clubs, one at 20k and the other of similar size
- Bialystok will build a classy 25k
- Lublin is to start work on it's 17,8k this year
- Zaglebie Lubin is building a new one now (16,5k)
- Cracovia will have a new 15,5k
- Arka Gdynia another 15k
- Polonia Warszawa has just made their stadium the only fully covered (seats, not pitch) ground of the 2nd league this season and are thinking of expanding the stadium to up to 20 000.
and the list goes on. It is a boom (even if it ends at some 5-7 being built in the end), so I expect that after 2010 our attendances will get much higher.

As for Ukraine, I would be very calm about them...


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## Basel_CH (Jan 7, 2006)

railcity said:


> Of course, stadiums in Poland and Ukraine are more glorious.


Poland and Ukraine have more citizens/people, thats the only point.
By the way, there are whispers that the UEFA delegation is not happy with the development for the EURO2012 (build up the stadiums, infrastructure, transport systems...), could it be, that Platini cancel this wonderful EURO2012 in Poland and Ukraine and would give it to other country(ies), because they are incapable to hold a so great and important event, like other smaller countries can manage it, like Austria and Switzerland?


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## michał_ (Mar 8, 2007)

Basel_CH said:


> Poland and Ukraine have more citizens/people, thats the only point.


And what does this have to do? OK- size. But not aesthetics.



Basel_CH said:


> By the way, there are whispers that the UEFA delegation is not happy with the development for the EURO2012 (build up the stadiums, infrastructure, transport systems...), could it be, that Platini cancel this wonderful EURO2012 in Poland and Ukraine and would give it to other country(ies), because they are incapable to hold a so great and important event, like other smaller countries can manage it, like Austria and Switzerland?


Funny, cause I could swear no delegation is here  And the one that was in March has publicly said there is no problem. In fact, everybody seem very pleased (surprisingly). Of course there are some issues (a lot) and we surely won't beat Euro 2008 in terms of infrastructure, but everything seems on course. Speaking of other smaller countries- compare budgets and ecnomic condition... 
I know you lost yeaterday (though didn't deserve to), but no need for the irony.


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## Basel_CH (Jan 7, 2006)

Polish level, no further comment...


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## cichy87 (Aug 4, 2006)

Attendance in polish league is low, because great part of polish 1st division clubs is placed in small town and they have small stadiums. All the EURO 2012 stadiums will be build in big cities and there should be no problem with filling it.

Eg, in Poznań, there is stadium with capacity up to 30,000 (now it's about 18.000 because of reconstruction). And there is always problem with buying league match ticket (in last season Lech Poznań sold above 10,000 season tickets). I'm sure, that after reconstruction there will be no free seat.

At the other stadiums it should be similarly. Our clubs are richer, they gain bigger sponsors, stadiums will be beautiful, comfortable and - first of all - very safe. It cause that more people will be eager to watch football matches


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## cichy87 (Aug 4, 2006)

Basel_CH said:


> Polish level, no further comment...


Not Polish level, but some idiots from "polish" tabloids. It makes difference


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## AUTO (Apr 24, 2004)

Burislav said:


> Yes, Olympic will be entirely reconstructed. Dynamo will probably build a new stadium for themselves too. And Arsenal announced a huge arena for themselves as well (although I don't think that they need it).


Is Arsenal more popular than Dynamo?
In Warsaw there are also two clubs: Legia and Polonia.
Legia is more popular so they are going to build 35k stadium. Polonia new stadium will be for about 15k spectators. Are you sure that Kyiv's clubs are so popular to heve so big stadiums (especialy Arsenal)?
Dynamo could play in new olimpic stadium IMO.


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## michał_ (Mar 8, 2007)

Basel_CH said:


> Polish level, no further comment...


Well, maybe your level. Most Poles found out about the yellow press covers after western media noticed them. And what is funniest here, one of the tabloids that led the ugly campaign is German (Polish version of Axel Springer's Bild).


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Come on
we saw the swiss yellow press before the SUI-TUR game 2 years ago
"Ümit Özat is the son of an anatolian wolf mum" hno:


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

AUTO said:


> Is Arsenal more popular than Dynamo?
> In Warsaw there are also two clubs: Legia and Polonia.
> Legia is more popular so they are going to build 35k stadium. Polonia new stadium will be for about 15k spectators. Are you sure that Kyiv's clubs are so popular to heve so big stadiums (especialy Arsenal)?
> Dynamo could play in new olimpic stadium IMO.


No, Dynamo is much more popular, they're 2nd in Ukraine in 2007-08, while Arsenal usually was at the very end. Though it's gaining popularity. For important games we gather 50,000 spectators, but on average it's quite small considering the clubs at the end of the league with small attendances.

I said "I don't think that they need it" - which means that I don't think they're popular enough, especially Arsenal, to need such huge stadiums. But they probably know better than me.

Dynamo has a small stadium of their own (17k capacity) and for more or less important games use the Olympic stadium. 

Arsenal is a new club, founded in 2001 and a year ago it got a new rich owner who advertises it strongly, building a new, big stadium is part of the team promotion for him.


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

Average attendance for Ukraine:

1992 ~~~5,650
2004-05 7,302
2005-06 7,919
*2006-07 9,052*

It's rising and will continue to rise, Euro and new stadiums will give it an extra boost as well.


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

Carrerra said:


> If arsenal really intend to build their own stadium it must have no running tracks, mustn't it? Olympic stadium has running tracks so they don't need another stadium with running tracks. Burislav, would you link the article about 60K stadium and sum it up in English if you don't mind?


The article is here http://www.ua-football.com/ukrainian/news/4847cb41.html

It says 10,000 parking spaces, total area of 320,000 sq/m, capacity 60k-75k, retractable roof, designed by a ukrainian team. But we heard his intentions about a big new stadium for a long time now


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## Carrerra (Mar 13, 2008)

Burislav said:


> The article is here http://www.ua-football.com/ukrainian/news/4847cb41.html
> 
> It says 10,000 parking spaces, total area of 320,000 sq/m, capacity 60k-75k, retractable roof, designed by a ukrainian team. But we heard his intentions about a big new stadium for a long time now


Burislav, what is this? Is this a rendering of the new Arsenal stadium or a real life image of other exsting stadium?


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

thats allianz arena


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## Basel_CH (Jan 7, 2006)

@Michal

Take a look into the german or swiss newspapers, and you never find something horrible llike that, hovewer the tabloid is sponsored by Germans, its not their/our level.


@Sercan

Two years ago?? I think you mean the FIFA qualification 2005, not 2006, but just a very small mistake...

And this sentence...
Thats a fable of probably turkish yellow press to egg the hate against swiss people, or show me this article in a swiss newspaper with the origin of this phrase. We don`t use any express like you have mentioned.
And fairplay with turkish fans, its funny, yesterday POR-TUR, every time when a player from Portugal had the ball, you heard supporters whistling and hooting, must be distinctive for turkish football fans, and don`t tell me that were swiss fans.


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## Carrerra (Mar 13, 2008)

www.sercan.de said:


> thats allianz arena


:bash:


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Sorry, 3 years ago 

"Buuuh" is nowadays quite normal at football matches

its yellow press

greeks wrote in turkish after a AEK win over Efes in Basketbal " we fu.. you mother"


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## michał_ (Mar 8, 2007)

Basel_CH said:


> @Michal
> Take a look into the german or swiss newspapers, and you never find something horrible llike that, hovewer the tabloid is sponsored by Germans, its not their/our level.


haha, good one. so you have no idea what started this, eh?  Never mind that Poles are being mocked regularly as thiefs by either some Media Markt or some online German gamebookers, it's not your level  never mind Grman media lie about us all the time, it's all about drastic (poor photoshop) work, intention of which was to make a scandal (and thanks to people like you, it worked). They call it the rejection syndrome. You just erase everything that your community does to say others do it. It's ok, don't worry, you will win the next game. Or not.
Cut the crap about what German or Swiss newspapers do (I don't really care about Swiss, but why are you speaking for the Germans?), because media specialists call Fakt (the Polish mutation of Bild) the LIGHT version of it's German, original version. you're not talking to idiots you know. It's my 5th year at media communication and your words are pure bullocks.
however, I don't read Swiss newspapers just as much as I don't read Fakt or Super Express whose image you recalled. But the fact alone that you used something so rediculous means everything to me. When you don't have an argument, you just reach for something stupid to change the subject.



Basel_CH said:


> Two years ago?? I think you mean the FIFA qualification 2005, not 2006, but just a very small mistake...


Ahhh, if it's 3 years ago then you're clean, aren't you?  then it;s not that level.

Maybe you've just said enough and went enough off-topic with this?


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## railcity (Apr 4, 2007)

www.sercan.de said:


> Come on
> we saw the swiss yellow press before the SUI-TUR game 2 years ago
> "Ümit Özat is the son of an anatolian wolf mum" hno:


I'm sure this is a lie. Also yellow press would not write anything like that. At that time, I read about several such delibaretely wrong translations and fakes of Swiss press-articles or statements by the Swiss coach in some Turkish newspapers in order to provoke hate against the Swiss among Turkish fans. In youtube one could also see a group of young Turks pretending to be Swiss and burning a Turkish flag....It was cute somehow.  

@Basel_CH: I can only guess about your personal level, if you make conclusions from a headline in a newspaper to a whole population...even more as many of such tabloids are foreign-owned.


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## Basel_CH (Jan 7, 2006)

michał_;21539714 said:


> haha, good one. so you have no idea what started this, eh?  Never mind that Poles are being mocked regularly as thiefs by either some Media Markt or some online German gamebookers, it's not your level  never mind Grman media lie about us all the time, it's all about drastic (poor photoshop) work, intention of which was to make a scandal (and thanks to people like you, it worked). They call it the rejection syndrome. You just erase everything that your community does to say others do it. It's ok, don't worry, you will win the next game. Or not.


Interesting, German press and people do everything wrong and you start to react, but in the same way like they do.
Is that the meaning? Well if I read your answers and feel your odium, then it must be this way, but sometimes its better to not react the same level, than the other, maybe thats the golden way...


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## michał_ (Mar 8, 2007)

Basel_CH said:


> Interesting, German press and people do everything wrong and you start to react, but in the same way like they do.
> Is that the meaning? Well if I read your answers and feel your odium, then it must be this way, but sometimes its better to not react the same level, than the other, maybe thats the golden way...


Come on! Do you really blame me? Those are idiots- we all know that and it was never questioned. But it's idiots on both sides, not ours alone. One thing you shouldn't have done is get them involved here in the discussion, because that's clearly pointless and has no meaning for the thread, but to insult Poles saying "Polish level". Generalizing people with negative stereotypes won't get you too many friends.


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## Pablitisimo Maximo (Aug 1, 2006)

Ukrainian stadiums are the best! No variants!


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

The Polish and Ukrainian stadiums looks alot better than the 2008 stadiums (or atleast in the renderings). And I guess that's what this thread is about.



Burislav said:


> Average attendance for Ukraine:
> 
> 1992 ~~~5,650
> 2004-05 7,302
> ...


And by 2012 it will be 40.000:|


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## krzysiu_ (Jun 6, 2006)

Sorry but this thread is no more no less then stupid. Why? How you can compare SUI, where football...doesnt exist at all... And what about stadiums...It would be really pathetic if SUI and A decided to build some huge awesome stadiums...What for? And POL or UKR are quite big countrys where football is very very popular so...Anyway E2012 stadiums > E2008 stadiums


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## lpioe (May 6, 2006)

^^ Doesn't exist at all?
Switzerland has quite a high attendance compared to the population, probably one of the highest in Europe.
And Ukraine isn't exaclty known to be very enthusiastic about football here...


Nonetheless, Euro 2012 will obviously have much better stadiums, aesthetics and capacity wise. I don't think anyone questions this.


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## Scozia9 (Jan 29, 2007)

Anything would be better than the current hosts to be honest, their stadia are so small that its been detrimental to the tournament. And i'm well aware of the Euro 2008 party line that the Swiss and Austrian leagues don't need venues any bigger, which just sums up how self orientated these people are. As HOSTS you provide what is needed for your guests, not just yourself. It would be like hosting a dinner party and only having enough chairs for your own family meals during the week - leaving most of your guests standing outside, which is what so many fans find themselves doing.


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

ØlandDK said:


> The Polish and Ukrainian stadiums looks alot better than the 2008 stadiums (or atleast in the renderings). And I guess that's what this thread is about.
> 
> 
> 
> And by 2012 it will be 40.000:|


Big games attract 70k-80k in Ukraine right now  so filling up 100,000 Olympic Stadium seats in 2012 won't be a problem with exclusively ukrainian spectators :lol:


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## skytrax (Nov 12, 2006)

Ukrain!!!


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## michał_ (Mar 8, 2007)

krzysiu_ said:


> Sorry but this thread is no more no less then stupid. Why? How you can compare SUI, where football...doesnt exist at all... And what about stadiums...It would be really pathetic if SUI and A decided to build some huge awesome stadiums...What for? And POL or UKR are quite big countrys where football is very very popular so...Anyway E2012 stadiums > E2008 stadiums


Your post is no more no less then stupid. Compare attendances in all 4 countries (and add populations as Ipoe said):
*Switzerland: 10 917*
Austria: 9 338
Ukraine: 8 295
Poland: 7 329

Yeah, Swiss football- non existant. Next time try harder.


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Switzerland has got one of the oldest clubs and leagues in the World!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Although its a small country there have been a lot of champions

1898	Grasshopper CZ(1)
1899	Anglo-American CZ(1)
1900	Grasshopper CZ(2)
1901	Grasshopper CZ(3)
1902	FC Zürich(1)
1903	BSC Young Boys(1)
1904	FC St. Gallen(1)
1905	Grasshopper CZ(4)
1906	FC Winterthur(1)
1907	Servette FC Genève(1)
1908	FC Winterthur(2)
1909	BSC Young Boys(2)
1910	BSC Young Boys(3)
1911	BSC Young Boys(4)
1912	FC Aarau(1)
1913	FC Lausanne-Sport(1)
1914	FC Aarau(2)
1915	SC Brühl St. Gallen(1)
1916	Neuchâtel Xamax FC(1)
1917	FC Winterthur(3)
1918	Servette FC Genève(2)
1919	ÉS La Chaux-de-Fonds(1)
1920	BSC Young Boys(5)
1921	Grasshopper CZ(5)
1922	Servette FC Genève(3)
1923	-
1924	FC Zürich(2)
1925	Servette FC Genève(4)
1926	Servette FC Genève(5)
1927	Grasshopper CZ(6)
1928	Grasshopper CZ(7)
1929	BSC Young Boys(6)
1930	Servette FC Genève(6)
1931	Grasshopper CZ(8 )
1932	FC Lausanne-Sport(2)
1933	Servette FC Genève(7)
1934	Servette FC Genève(8 )
1935	FC Lausanne-Sport(3)
1936	FC Lausanne-Sport(4)
1937	Grasshopper CZ(9)
1938	AC Lugano(1)
1939	Grasshopper CZ(10)
1940	Servette FC Genève(9)
1941	AC Lugano(2)
1942	Grasshopper CZ(11)
1943	Grasshopper CZ(12)
1944	FC Lausanne-Sport(5)
1945	Grasshopper CZ(13)
1946	Servette FC Genève(10)
1947	FC Biel-Bienne(1)
1948	AC Bellinzona(1)
1949	AC Lugano(3)
1950	Servette FC Genève(11)
1951	FC Lausanne-Sport(6)
1952	Grasshopper CZ(14)
1953	FC Basel 1893(1)
1954	FC La Chaux-de-Fonds(1)
1955	FC La Chaux-de-Fonds(2)
1956	Grasshopper CZ(15)
1957	BSC Young Boys(7)
1958	BSC Young Boys(8 )
1959	BSC Young Boys(9)
1960	BSC Young Boys(10)
1961	Servette FC Genève(12)
1962	Servette FC Genève(13)
1963	FC Zürich(3)
1964	FC La Chaux-de-Fonds(3)
1965	FC Lausanne-Sport(7)
1966	FC Zürich(4)
1967	FC Basel 1893(2)
1968	FC Zürich(5)
1969	FC Basel 1893(3)
1970	FC Basel 1893(4)
1971	Grasshopper CZ(16)
1972	FC Basel 1893(5)
1973	FC Basel 1893(6)
1974	FC Zürich(6)
1975	FC Zürich(7)
1976	FC Zürich(8 )
1977	FC Basel 1893(7)
1978	Grasshopper CZ(17)
1979	Servette FC Genève(14)
1980	FC Basel 1893(8 )
1981	FC Zürich(9)
1982	Grasshopper CZ(18 )
1983	Grasshopper CZ(19)
1984	Grasshopper CZ(20)
1985	Servette FC Genève(15)
1986	BSC Young Boys(11)
1987	Neuchâtel Xamax FC(2)
1988	Neuchâtel Xamax FC(3)
1989	FC Luzern(1)
1990	Grasshopper CZ(21)
1991	Grasshopper CZ(22)
1992	FC Sion(1)
1993	FC Aarau(3)
1994	Servette FC Genève(16)
1995	Grasshopper CZ(23)
1996	Grasshopper CZ(24)
1997	FC Sion(2)
1998	Grasshopper CZ(25)
1999	Servette FC Genève(17)
2000	FC St. Gallen(2)
2001	Grasshopper CZ(26)
2002	FC Basel 1893(9)
2003	Grasshopper CZ(27)
2004	FC Basel 1893(10)
2005	FC Basel 1893(11)
2006	FC Zürich(10)
2007	FC Zürich(11)
2008	FC Basel 1893(12)

1. Grasshopper CZ(27)
2. Servette FC Genève(17)
3. FC Basel 1893(12)
4. BSC Young Boys(11)
5. FC Zürich(11)
6. FC Lausanne-Sport(7)
7. Neuchâtel Xamax FC(3)
8. FC Aarau(3)
9. FC La Chaux-de-Fonds(3)
10. AC Lugano(3)
11. FC Winterthur(3)
12. FC St. Gallen(2)
13. FC Sion(2)
14. FC Luzern(1)
15. FC Biel-Bienne(1)
16. AC Bellinzona(1)
17. SC Brühl St. Gallen(1)
18. ÉS La Chaux-de-Fonds(1)
19. Anglo-American CZ(1)


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## AUTO (Apr 24, 2004)

michał_;21623787 said:


> Your post is no more no less then stupid. Compare attendances in all 4 countries (and add populations as Ipoe said):
> *Switzerland: 10 917*
> Austria: 9 338
> Ukraine: 8 295
> ...


In Poland the reason that we can't see to many spectators on stadiums is no big stadiums. Also a few teams are from small towns (they have reach sponsors) but it's changing :cheers:


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## masterpaul (Jun 27, 2007)

also holiginizm cuts down, spectators in football matches, in Poland.

People are to scared to go with there amily on matches.

By euro 2012, new venues will hopefully mean way better security measures. Which means less violence and more people going to football stadiums.


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## michał_ (Mar 8, 2007)

AUTO said:


> In Poland the reason that we can't see to many spectators on stadiums is no big stadiums. Also a few teams are from small towns (they have reach sponsors) but it's changing :cheers:


It's true we haven't got big stadiums, but we almost never fill the ones we have. Apart from top teams, the attendances are appalling.
And they've also got teams from very small towns in Austria and Switzerland.


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## krzysiu_ (Jun 6, 2006)

masterpaul said:


> also holiginizm cuts down, spectators in football matches, in Poland.
> 
> People are to scared to go with there amily on matches.
> 
> By euro 2012, new venues will hopefully mean way better security measures. Which means less violence and more people going to football stadiums.


Well, since there was no stadiums in Poland, I mean big and modern stadiums... But now, when in what 3? 4? years we will have many small and big stadiums... Situation is changing dramatically so...Time when people were scared to go with family on the match is gone...Biggest polish problem are definitely roads...


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