# Triangle warning signs or Diamond warning signs.



## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

This: 





Or this:


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

^^ They are both ok, aren't they?


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Of course but some people might think that one is better let's here what they have to say! Of mabye they just think that one looks nicer.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

We have different shapes in The Netherlands.








this signs mean you are on a major road, and all other directions have to let you pass first. 








this sign explains the situation with intersections. Here, you are allowed to go first. This sign is used, when not a whole ****** is a priority road. (when a sign like the first one is used). 








this one means you have to give way to other drives on the intersectioning road. 

These shapes are used, so even when it snows, and the sign is covered with snow, you still know the meaning of it.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Yes in most of europe it's like that, but this is only about the warning ones (the one in the middle).


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## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

For me it doesn't matter if warning signs will be triangular or diamond as long as they provide clear information, consistent with each other and have pictures instead of the text. 

There is really no difference between:








and
















and
















and









However, warning signs that only have text are extremely inefficient because you can read the message only if you are close enough (50 metres). This really defeats the whole purpose of a warning sign.


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## FM 2258 (Jan 24, 2004)

^^

In the U.S. they usually make diamond signs larger on large highways so you can read them better.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

FM 2258 said:


> ^^
> 
> In the U.S. they usually make diamond signs larger on large highways so you can read them better.


True but still...


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## Nicolás (Dec 17, 2005)

It all depends...
If you are a European it's unfamiliar for you when you are driving in countries like Canada or USA and the other way round. 
Well you can't say that the triangle is better or worse than the diamond. For me of course the diamond is worse because I am used to see the triangle ones. 
But I doubt that warning signs with too much text or only with text are better than the European ones where most the time simple symbols are used.


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## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

FM 2258 said:


> ^^
> 
> In the U.S. they usually make diamond signs larger on large highways so you can read them better.


But why not to use pictorial signs? It is a widely accepted fact that human beings tend to memorise pictorial form of information better than textual. What I mean is that no matter if the population is monolingual or not, pictures are still more efficient than text.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Why did the Irish start using DIAMOND signd in the 50's?


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## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

DFM said:


> Why did the Irish start using DIAMOND signd in the 50's?


To be different from Britain? :lol: But seriosuly, even though they use yellow diamonds, the pictures on them are still much closer to Britih ones than American ones. In America, for instance, you would never find this sign, yet it is very common on European triangular signs:










Plus, Irish signs distinguish between intersection with minor road and major road - a useful feature that is not introduced in the US. Canada has them though:


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Probaly :lol:


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## TheCat (Apr 21, 2006)

Chris1491 said:


> We have different shapes in The Netherlands.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have always wondered about this. In Canada, like in all countries that drive on the right, the rule is to let the vehicle on the right go first if no signs are present. However, it is quite confusing because in Canada (and I assume most of North America) they never tell you if you are on a major road or not. This creates a situation where if you approach an intersection and you do not see any signs, you have to first look carefully to the side and see whether the crossing road has stop signs or yield signs. This is quite stupid and in my opinion should not be the responsibility of the driver of the main road. In practice, this is the case pretty much 100% of the time, so on most small residential streets one just passes such an intersection without looking anywhere. In reality, in my opinion, if the cross road has a yield/stop sign, the other road should always have a sign telling the driver that he has the right of way. Otherwise, the "priority to the right" rule is sort of pointless, even though I am yet to actually encounter an intersection in Canada where this rule would be applied (maybe on remote rural roads?)


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## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

Exactly! And all it takes is to implement a warning sign like







or







It really doesn't take a lot of effort to start putting these warning signs neither in terms of funds nor in changing the existing traffic rules.

The principle of main and secondary roads would even work better, but I wonder if it would be too complicated for an average American driver.


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## Gil (Mar 11, 2005)

I remember in a design class that (at least in North America) the number of sides a sign has is proportional to the severity of the inforamation being displayed by the sign. Thus, a triangular yield sign bears a passing caution while an octagonal stop sign commands your full attention. This warning is also extending to packaging warnings about flammability, corrossiveness and explosions on various products with the severity going from triangle to diamond to octagon.

Diamond warning signs are used as in a cautionary sense. The pentagonal school crossing signs express heightened caution to drivers due to the number of children in the area. At this point the only round (1-sided) signs I have seen are for road designations and serve no warning/cautionary purpose, just informational. The old round railway crossing signs have since been replaced with the 12-sided X sign along with the flashing red lights.


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## TheCat (Apr 21, 2006)

Heh yeah, while in Europe and most of the world round signs are widely used


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## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

What about "Yield" sign? It has a tringular shape, yet it is as important as the STOP sign.

As for the warning signs, European triangular ones bear exactly the same significance as the American diamond ones. No difference whatsoever.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> What about "Yield" sign? It has a tringular shape, yet it is as important as the STOP sign.
> 
> As for the warning signs, European triangular ones bear exactly the same significance as the American diamond ones. No difference whatsoever.


But "Give Way" ones are upside down.


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## dizee (Apr 3, 2006)

I think purely from a design point of view yellow diamonds are superior, because they create a clear distinction from the regulation signs (which tend to be a white circle with a red outline) and because they give more space to display larger, and therefore more easy to read pictograms.

You could ask why Ireland uses them, as it is exceptional as a European country in doing so, but equally the UK seems to be the only one which uses red diamonds out of the english-speaking countries.


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## shpirtkosova (Jun 7, 2009)

The problem is that yellow is not a scary color if you know what I mean, red is a symbol of heat and danger and so is triangle, both mix very well.... If I looked at a yellow diamond, I would never take it as a warning sign, maybe i'm not used to it.


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## ardmacha (Jun 24, 2007)

Would this scare you?


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## Gareth (Apr 27, 2004)

I prefer yellow diamonds actually. I think the colour, shape and surface area is superior. I also like the idea of leaving red to regulatory signs.


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## Norsko (Feb 22, 2007)

Sponsor said:


> You also have yellow center line, dividing two lanes of opposite directions. How do you deal with this in case of temporary signage? Same situation in Finland.


Actually I do not think we have any kind of temporary road markings. Maybe we should start to use red a a temporary colour on them.


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## deranged (Jan 22, 2009)

Gareth said:


> I prefer yellow diamonds actually. I think the colour, shape and surface area is superior. I also like the idea of leaving red to regulatory signs.


I agree on all counts. Yellow diamonds are better for distinguishing between warning and regulatory signs imo.


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## mgk920 (Apr 21, 2007)

Norsko said:


> Actually I do not think we have any kind of temporary road markings. Maybe we should start to use red a a temporary colour on them.


In the USA, 'temporary' road markings are the exact same as the permanent ones. They just 'erase' (grind or strip off) the ones that are not in effect.

Mike


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

I tend to think of America's signs as marginally better:
- Our yellow diamond signs are usually larger and easier to read
- Different colors and shapes are used for certain purposes:
> Yellow: Warning [Traffic hazards mostly] - Usually a diamond if it's a freestanding sign; if it shares space with a guide sign then it's a separate rectuangular portion of the sign painted yellow
> Red: Stop [Includes "Do Not Enter" and "Wrong Way" signs as well as "Stop" signs]
> White: Regulations [Speed, parking restrictions, etc]
> Green: Guide signs
> Blue: Information
> Brown: Tourist attractions
> Orange: Construction
> Bright give-y'a-headache yellow: School zones/crossings [Usually in a pentagon shape like this]

The yellow diamond gives more room for larger images or text, too so they can be read more easily.

There are some European pictorial signs that are utterly incomprehensible to me:
- The "No Parking" sign just tells me "No!" without specification
- The "No Stopping" sign just tells me "HELL *NO* YOU IDIOT!!" without specification
- The "No Passing" sign tells me "Attention: Black and red cars ahead"
- That yellow and white diamond sign tells me absolutely nothing.

The speed limit signs are roughly equal IMO, but the European one requires more thinking, whereas the American one explicitly states what it means. (Perhaps the US could start using the same European speed limit signs, except in MPH, and add "Speed Limit ##" text?)

One thing the American signs could improve upon is the "Watch for Fallen Rocks" sign - that would be very easy to put in pictorial form. I also think we could use their "Congested highway" signs a bit more often - there aren't many, and when there is one it's text-based. There are some text-based signs that I can't think of an easy way to turn into a pictorial sign, such as "School bus stop ahead" which AFAIK has no European equivalent since they dont rely on school buses nearly as much as we do.


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## Danielk2 (Jun 2, 2009)

> such as "School bus stop ahead" which AFAIK has no European equivalent since they dont rely on school buses nearly as much as we do.


The reason why we in Europe (or at least Denmark) don't use so many schoolbuses, is that the students take public buses, like other people. We don't have any buses reserved for schools. And our "schools buses" don't have those stupid STOP-signs on them like the american ones, so we can just overtake those slow old buses driving 40mph outside the freakin' towns!!:bleep:


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

In the Netherlands, nearly all students go on their bicycle to school... Only long-distance students take the bus or train. Some students age 11 - 16 cycle 30 - 40 km per day to get to school... how brave is that.


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## Danielk2 (Jun 2, 2009)

Don't those kids have to leave home very early to go to school?


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## Fuzzy Llama (Jan 24, 2009)

nerdly_dood said:


> I tend to think of America's signs as marginally better:
> [...]
> - Different colors and shapes are used for certain purposes:
> > White: Regulations [Speed, parking restrictions, etc]


Yeah, right:







] 

The worst thing in American signage is HIDEOUS amount of text. You use three words ("RIGHT LANE ENDS") where a single bent arrow is better understandable, more legible from greater distances and takes much less space. And there is more. I know that every user of an American road know English and can understand the sign, but the fact is that pictorials can be faster interpreted from greater distances.

And putting the text on diamonds is just wrong. They accomodate pictorals very well, but there is simply not enough horizontal space for text. Use the God damned pictures! 



> There are some European pictorial signs that are utterly incomprehensible to me:


Well, those signs (apart from "no passing" sign) were created a looong time ago and they are imprinted in the general culture. 10 y.o. european kid just know what they mean. Everyone agree that there is no connection between their image and meaning, but they just do very well


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## Danielk2 (Jun 2, 2009)

Yeah, everybody knows their meaning. And when all European roadsigns are almost identical (they do have small differences), it's easy for everybody to understand, even if you are in a country where they don't speak your language. eg: a dane (like me) who doen't know anything about french, could go to france (our borders are open:banana and still be able to understand the road signs.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Danielk2 said:


> Don't those kids have to leave home very early to go to school?


Yes, I had schoolmates who used the bus and train who had to leave home at 6.45 am to attend school at 9 am. And those who cycled long distances usually had to leave 1,5 hours before school started.

I was lucky, I lived 15 minutes of cycling time from school. Now I live even closer to work. Commuting time is just wasted time to me, whichever mode of transportation you use.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

A sign is a sign to me...I'm used to US signage, but European signs are simple so I guess they work. Don't think it would make sense for us to convert ours though, if it's not broke don't fix it, like that random saying...



Fuzzy Llama said:


> Yeah, right:
> The worst thing in American signage is HIDEOUS amount of text. You use three words ("RIGHT LANE ENDS") where a single bent arrow is better understandable, more legible from greater distances and takes much less space. And there is more. I know that every user of an American road know English and can understand the sign, but the fact is that pictorials can be faster interpreted from greater distances.


I kind of think that this point is a bit odd. Before you get your driver's license, you _should _know how all the signs and what they mean, so there really shouldn't be a problem. I don't encounter any problems with American signs, even when I'm driving too fast to read it.

As for the amount of text, most newer signs don't have as much as they used to. 
That pic you provided is not common by any means, most would just say "NO PARKING".


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yes, I had schoolmates who used the bus and train who had to leave home at 6.45 am to attend school at 9 am. And those who cycled long distances usually had to leave 1,5 hours before school started.
> 
> I was lucky, I lived 15 minutes of cycling time from school. Now I live even closer to work. Commuting time is just wasted time to me, whichever mode of transportation you use.


You were lucky then,I had to commute about 2 hours a day by public transport(1 there and 1 back)...but it was fun,every month I used different routes to get home! In fact,my morning and afternoon routes were also different! Probably this is why I simply hate driving in the city.


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## TheCat (Apr 21, 2006)

Xusein said:


> As for the amount of text, most newer signs don't have as much as they used to.
> That pic you provided is not common by any means, most would just say "NO PARKING".


But I think this raises the important topic of standardization. This is one thing that is really strange here (I'm from Canada, but it's a similar story to the US, though a bit better), in that it seems that there is a subset of signs that are standard and used everywhere (like the stop sign, for example), and a fairly large group of signs that are just randomly "made-up" and placed by various jurisdictions.

This is one reason there is so much text - there aren't standard universally learned and understood signs for many situations, which simply necessitates the inclusion of random textual signs that "tell" you what to do. I think in Europe a sign does not have any legal meaning if it is not included in the official list of signs recognized by law. And this list is updated very rarely, only when amendments are made to the traffic laws.

In Canada I find the situation to be a bit better than in the US though. For example, you will rarely (or maybe even never, in many jurisdictions) see a "No Parking" or "No Stopping" textual sign. We use pictorial signs for these restrictions. However, in these cases I still prefer the European signs, as they are much larger and easier to see.

I also hate the excessive use of restriction signs that only apply at certain times of day. Functionally it makes sense to have such restrictions (HOV lanes, no left turns, no parking, etc.), but I think there should just be certain standard portions of the day, identified by colours or something else that can easily be identified.

I can't even begin to describe how many times I've approached an intersection with a "no left turn" sign (pictorial and easily visible) with a bunch of tiny text underneath telling me in detail when in fact I may not perform the turn. I should not have to spend more than 1-2 seconds analyzing a traffic sign.


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## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

nerdly_dood said:


> There are some European pictorial signs that are utterly incomprehensible to me:
> - The "No Parking" sign just tells me "No!" without specification
> - The "No Stopping" sign just tells me "HELL *NO* YOU IDIOT!!" without specification


What kind of specification do you need? European signs could be supplemented with additional white rectangle that specify the time period when the sign is valid and any other useful information. 



> - The "No Passing" sign tells me "Attention: Black and red cars ahead"


The new 2009 proposals to the MUTCD introduced a Canadian-style "No passing" sign that depicts two cars inside a red circle with the left car crossed out. So, you better get used to it, pal 











> - That yellow and white diamond sign tells me absolutely nothing.


It is a very useful sign if you have a concept of the _main road_. In America, if there is no sign at the intersection, it means you have a priority. Not so in Europe where you have to have a sign that indicates you have a priority. 



> The speed limit signs are roughly equal IMO, but the European one requires more thinking, whereas the American one explicitly states what it means.


A red circle around a number is not explicit enough for you? Really? :lol: When I had to learn various signs to pass my theoretical exam, this was the first one I memorised because it is the easiest to memorise. Actually, I had known this sign since early childhood :lol: 



> One thing the American signs could improve upon is the "Watch for Fallen Rocks" sign - that would be very easy to put in pictorial form.


Guess what? It already exists in some states in pictorial form.


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## Timon91 (Feb 9, 2008)

Danielk2 said:


> Don't those kids have to leave home very early to go to school?


I've just finished high school and I've cycled to school for 6 years, 14 kms one way. Still there are people that have to cycle further.


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

nerdly_dood said:


> > Red: Stop [Includes "Do Not Enter" and "Wrong Way" signs as well as "Stop" signs]
> 
> - The "No Passing" sign tells me "Attention: Black and red cars ahead"


So you know the basic meaning of "red",but you cant use it in practice. I guess the priority sign at narrow roads would be hell for you.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

nerdly_dood said:


> There are some European pictorial signs that are utterly incomprehensible to me:
> - The "No Parking" sign just tells me "No!" without specification
> - The "No Stopping" sign just tells me "HELL *NO* YOU IDIOT!!" without specification
> - The "No Passing" sign tells me "Attention: Black and red cars ahead"
> - That yellow and white diamond sign tells me absolutely nothing.


Pretty much everyone here knows these signs by heart. You know them by heart long before you even start driving.


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## MattiG (Feb 11, 2011)

muc said:


> As for visitors - if you plan on driving in a foreign country it's your duty to familiarize yourself with the local driving rules, including signage.
> Would it be easier for you to have to remember what e.g. a text like "Denke nicht einmal daran, hier zu parken!" means than the meaning of two red lines forming a cross over red background?


And some textual signs are gradually turning to symbols, like "PED XING". That is not English any more, but a symbol consisting of seven known letters.


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## marmurr1916 (Feb 3, 2010)

shpirtkosova said:


> I prefer triangle signs, I don't understand why Ireland seems to be the only country in Europe that uses diamond shaped warning signs, I have a naughty feeling this is to define themselves from the British.


Unlikely, since older Irish warning signs (and directional signs) were pretty much identical to the pre-Worboys British signs.

For example, there used to be a warning sign on what is now the R612, before the junction for Myrtlevile/Fountainstown, which was almost identical (except for pointing to the right!) to this old English sign:










This guide shows the older style of Irish warning signs, which had a red triangle on top of a pole, with symbols and text beneath:










Compare these old directional signs from Ireland and the UK:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:OC_OldRoscreasign049.jpg (Ireland)








(UK)


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