# Ten Greatest Transport Infrasructure Achievements in the last Quarter Century:



## DonQui (Jan 10, 2005)

Not technically applicable, but I would nominate the tunnel boring machine (TBM) as having been an important achievement. Certainly the Chunnel would not have been possible.


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## premutos (Mar 17, 2006)

I am surprised donqui didnt choose something like the construction of the world trade center in NYC

or the hollywood sign in LA


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## Yardmaster (Jun 1, 2004)

algonquin said:


> Confederation Bridge in Eastern Canada is pretty cool... longest bridge in the world that traverses a frozen body of water (12.9km, built 1995-1997)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I read that the Confederation Bridge was deliberately bent to avoid driving fatigue, which was also why cars go through the "Chunnel" on a train rather than through a road-tunnel.


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## Yardmaster (Jun 1, 2004)

*A Tribute to the Last Quarter Century*

Well, this thread hasn't really rocketed, has it? The winner so far seems to be the Denmark-Sweden bridge, though I wasn't really looking for a winner ... I nominated eight and hoped to find ten.

The Viaduc de Milleau is absolutely magnificent, but it won't change the course of Human History .Nor will the bridge to Prince Edward Island in Canada: also amazing. Changes entire communities, but not Human History.

The new Tokyo Airport? I 'll go for the the UK/France, Denmark/Sweden , and low-level St. Gothard connections myself ...


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## Vapour (Jul 31, 2002)

^I guess Castle_Bravo means Kansai airport


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## Yardmaster (Jun 1, 2004)

Airports in the sea .... how will this modify anything.? 

On the other hand, the Adelaide to Darwin railway ...


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## Vincecoaster (Nov 20, 2006)

The Kansai Airport is in Osaka's Bay not in Tokyo's.

What do you think about that, a very special lift for ship in Belgium (the biggest one)










A great equipment isn't it ?

More information (in french however) :

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascenseur_funiculaire_de_Strépy-Thieu


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## BeachBoy (Dec 6, 2006)

the big dig too is quite impressive
and the viaduc de millau is there for sure!


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## Penhorn (Mar 28, 2006)

Yardmaster said:


> I read that the Confederation Bridge was deliberately bent to avoid driving fatigue, which was also why cars go through the "Chunnel" on a train rather than through a road-tunnel.


That's true, and it's also hilly so drivers can see the cars in front of them.

While I was searching up information on it, I found this great live streaming webcam of the bridge:

http://www.confederationbridge.com/en/media_gallery/bridge_cam.php

The Confederation Bridge is definately an impressive achievement. You can get some HUGE ice floes slamming into the pylons in the winter.


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## ChrisH (Mar 7, 2006)

Not quite so impressive perhaps, but what about the TGV network sprouting across Europe? In terms of impact for a large number of people, I think it's more impressive than even the Channel Tunnel...


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## Epi (Jul 21, 2006)

Yardmaster said:


> Well, this thread hasn't really rocketed, has it? The winner so far seems to be the Denmark-Sweden bridge, though I wasn't really looking for a winner ... I nominated eight and hoped to find ten.
> 
> The Viaduc de Milleau is absolutely magnificent, but it won't change the course of Human History .Nor will the bridge to Prince Edward Island in Canada: also amazing. Changes entire communities, but not Human History.
> 
> The new Tokyo Airport? I 'll go for the the UK/France, Denmark/Sweden , and low-level St. Gothard connections myself ...


It's not clear if you're talking about 'awesome cool ridiculous engineering marvels' or 'stuff that changes the world'. For instance the Denmark-Sweden bridge only has local effects. If you're talking really about things that change the world, then you'd have to mention stuff like:

-China's new highway and rail network
-India's new highway network (the delhi-madaras-kolkotta-mumbai highway I believe it was)
-Rise of low cost airlines (i.e. ryan-air and easyjet which allow europeans to commute to work from poland to england)
-brazil's ethanol-based fuel car industry
-private space plane airport in New Mexico
-mag-lev trains (i.e. shanghai for being the first)


If you're just talking about engineering I nominate the following:
-Kansai International Airport
-Chunnel
-Hong Kong international airport
-Confederation bridge
-Tibet railway
-Shanghai Mag-lev train


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## staff (Oct 23, 2004)

Epi said:


> It's not clear if you're talking about 'awesome cool ridiculous engineering marvels' or 'stuff that changes the world'. For instance the Denmark-Sweden bridge only has local effects. If you're talking really about things that change the world, then you'd have to mention stuff like:


Has maglev really changed the world that much as of yet, except for connecting Shanghai's airport to the city with highspeed rail? It might have a huge impact on rail transport in the future, but so far it's just an extremely expensive form of transport that hardly is economically justifiable in most parts of the world.
The Öresund Bridge *connects the Scandinavian peninsula to continental Europe* - it's one of the most important infrastructural projects in Europe along with the English Channel tunnel. For example it shortens the distance between Hamburg and Stockholm with ~3000 km when travelling over land.
I believe that's a little more than "local effects", even though it has had a huge impact on the Copenhagen/Malmö region itself as well.


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## czm3 (Dec 4, 2004)

What about Denver Intl airport...
One of the busiest in the world...

The big dig is a joke/white elephant

Also have to mention the Rhein Danube canal.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

For Greater China, the Three Gorges Dam and Hong Kong's new airport come to mind.


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## vipermkk (Feb 12, 2006)

Railway to Tibet


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## Epi (Jul 21, 2006)

staff said:


> Has maglev really changed the world that much as of yet, except for connecting Shanghai's airport to the city with highspeed rail? It might have a huge impact on rail transport in the future, but so far it's just an extremely expensive form of transport that hardly is economically justifiable in most parts of the world.
> The Öresund Bridge *connects the Scandinavian peninsula to continental Europe* - it's one of the most important infrastructural projects in Europe along with the English Channel tunnel. For example it shortens the distance between Hamburg and Stockholm with ~3000 km when travelling over land.
> I believe that's a little more than "local effects", even though it has had a huge impact on the Copenhagen/Malmö region itself as well.


Well MagLev may someday be a revolutionary technology that will change the balance between air and land travel. Shanghai was a first step in showing it's possible. I admit it may never pan out, so I guess it might not be fair to list it there.

Meanwhile the bridge is definitely local. It only affects a few million people, which previously had other transport options including sea and air. This is in contrast to say the new Indian highways which probably affect a hundred million people which didn't have any other choices previously other than unconnected roads or dirt roads. The new interconnectability of these hundred million will help spur economic and regional contacts which will have far ranging effects even around the world. I consider the Chunnel (while really cool) to be local as well... I mean hell, airfare between London and Paris can be cheaper than the EuroStar.


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## staff (Oct 23, 2004)

^^
In pure number of how many people it affects, then nothing beats China's and India's highway and railway projects - but I don't think it's as easy as that.
No airports in the world transports as many people as pretty much any country's highways for example. Hong Kong's airport is still a fantastic transport archievment considering the small time span during it was built, under huge pressure by the handover of Hong Kong to mainland China, for example.

The Öresund bridge and the Chunnel has land travel possible between important regions in Europe that has only been connected by sea (and air) for thousands and thousands of years. Not only for people travelling, but for goods as well.
Sure they are among the greatest transport achievements in the last quarter century - I'd say the last hundred years!


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## Sen (Nov 13, 2004)

Qinghai-Tibet railway.

Both for its engineering achivement and its impact.


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## staff (Oct 23, 2004)

^^
I fully agree.


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## hkth (Sep 15, 2005)

What this thread comes to my mind are Qinghai-Tibet Railway, Messive projects for Bangkok, HK and Kansai International Airports, the Big Dig for Chicago and the massive extension for the Madrid Metro.


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## Epi (Jul 21, 2006)

Nephasto said:


> Also, I never said the TGV was better than the Shinkensen. The fastest average speed by train in the world is in a shinkansen line, and Japan has the best high speed network in the world... no doubt!
> When I say TGV I mean high speed rail (TGV, Shinkansen, etc..).


Oh okay... but in that case, the Shinkansen debuted in the 60s... too early for last quarter century unfortunately


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## Yardmaster (Jun 1, 2004)

Nephasto said:


> I forgot to mention the permafrost on the Tibet railway. I havo to admit that makes it much more dificult, and the real challenge on the project.
> It makes me wander... aren't parts of the transsiberian line built in permafrost?


If not the trans-siberian, maybe some of the more northern lines. Could become a problem with global warming ...


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## Karakuri (Dec 5, 2006)

Epi said:


> Well, the TVG is 'just another train'. There are high speed trains in Japan, Germany and Italy. In fact, the Shinkensen in Japan was created first! So what if the TVG is currently the fastest... someone else will break that record soon. In fact Japan's JR has developed a 'linear train' that goes at 580 km/h (which is maglev I believe) and was on display at Expo 2005.
> 
> Besides, no one is seriously suggesting to run the thing at 500 km/h all the time anyway because none of the rail lines in France (aka the infrastructure) is made to safely run this aside from the test tracks and very very small and isolated sections.
> 
> Finally keep in mind that for the most part, the German high speed trains, the Italian high speed trains and the Shinkensen basically run at the same cruising speed as the TVG anyway.


Are you kidding? You say that the TGV's 500km/h are not to take into account because the TGV doesn't run at that speed in commercial use, but you quoted the Maglev's 580km/h...may I remind you that the Maglev that reached that speed isn't a commercial train?! It's a prototype running on a "short" test line, not in commercial use.
You also said that someone is going to break the TGV's speed record, well you got it right, because the TGV itself is going to break its 515km/h this month (expecting 550 to 580km/h).  
Finally keep in mind that the eastern TGV runs at 320km/h in commercial use, whereas HST in other countries run at 280/300km/h maximum.

Though, I have to agree that the Shinansen network is by far the best in the world, connecting every big city, except from Sapporo, but this problem will be solved soon!


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## Epi (Jul 21, 2006)

Karakuri said:


> Are you kidding? You say that the TGV's 500km/h are not to take into account because the TGV doesn't run at that speed in commercial use, but you quoted the Maglev's 580km/h...may I remind you that the Maglev that reached that speed isn't a commercial train?! It's a prototype running on a "short" test line, not in commercial use.
> You also said that someone is going to break the TGV's speed record, well you got it right, because the TGV itself is going to break its 515km/h this month (expecting 550 to 580km/h).
> Finally keep in mind that the eastern TGV runs at 320km/h in commercial use, whereas HST in other countries run at 280/300km/h maximum.
> 
> Though, I have to agree that the Shinansen network is by far the best in the world, connecting every big city, except from Sapporo, but this problem will be solved soon!


Er... I know that the JR maglev train is also a test train. I'm just saying that even if you just look at test trains, the TVG has been beat, so it's not so special.

The important thing is to look at it normally. And really 320 compared to 280-300 is not THAT different to say that the TVG is completely in a different league altogether, when all trains everywhere have been getting faster and faster anyway.. they just got there first.


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## Karakuri (Dec 5, 2006)

Ok dude, the maglev is not competing with trains, because it's not a real train with wheels, but a whole new technology based on the principle that suppressing friction saves energy and dramaticaly increases speed.
By the way, from 280 to 320 it's a 40km/h difference, and from 300 to 320 it's a 20km/h differece; this basic arithmetics shows you that on a 500km journey it's THAT different.
But you're free to think that the TGV is a piece of shit, I won't try to convince you that it's THE high speed train.


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## cncity (Feb 16, 2005)

I Think this is one of the best infrastructure projects in the world


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## Nephasto (Feb 6, 2004)

^^That's very cool, but the Oresund bridge (between Denmark ans Sweden) also has one of those tunnels(apart from the fantastic Oresund bridge).
It's Bridge+Tunnel.


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## Epi (Jul 21, 2006)

Karakuri said:


> Ok dude, the maglev is not competing with trains, because it's not a real train with wheels, but a whole new technology based on the principle that suppressing friction saves energy and dramaticaly increases speed.
> By the way, from 280 to 320 it's a 40km/h difference, and from 300 to 320 it's a 20km/h differece; this basic arithmetics shows you that on a 500km journey it's THAT different.
> But you're free to think that the TGV is a piece of shit, I won't try to convince you that it's THE high speed train.


Huh? You're putting words into my mouth. I never said the TGV was shit, I just said it wasn't really that special considering most other high speed rail systems in the world are almost on par. The TVG is a great train, one I enjoyed riding very much.

But the fact is 320 vs 280 isn't a big deal, because you will only reach those top speeds for only a fraction of the journey. Even if you are at those speeds for the entire journey (ignoring starting and breaking and stoping for stops inbetween):

500km / 320km/h = 1.56 hours (aka 1:34)
500km / 280km/h = 1.79 hours (aka 1:47)

So a whooping difference of... 14 minutes. Oh my god not 14 minutes!

And keep in mind in real life, the train will be stopping at many stops. It will be breaking and speeding up or turning, and for most of the time won't be anywhere near it's top theoretical speed, so the difference will be much, much less.

And since most high speed trains around the world are around the same, the idea that 'high speed rail' should be one of the top achievements of the last 25 years is simply false... Why? Well the Shinkensen debuted in the 1960s, over 40 years ago.


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## Karakuri (Dec 5, 2006)

Epi said:


> 500km / 320km/h = 1.56 hours (aka 1:34)
> 500km / 280km/h = 1.79 hours (aka 1:47)
> 
> So a whooping difference of... 14 minutes. Oh my god not 14 minutes!


You can make fun if you like, but the fact is 14 minutes are considerable, especially for trains the point of which is to get faster and faster.


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

Nephasto said:


> It wasn't the first. Lille, for example, had a fully automatic metro before Vancouver.
> Anyway, I find fully automatic metros to be a breakthrough! :yes:


Kobe has a automatic light trains since 1981 but it is not a subway. 
Lille is surely the first fully driverless subway.

The first heavy driverless subway (Heavy metro trains no light  ) was the on line D in Lyon (France) named Maggaly 
opened with driverless trains in 1992. (This line has a higher capacity than most of London and Paris metro lines)


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## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

http://english.people.com.cn/200702/15/eng20070215_350206.html

TGV - 553kmph now. They need just 29 kmph more to break maglev speed record.


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## gladisimo (Dec 11, 2006)

Yardmaster said:


> (not including terminal upgrades)
> 
> OK, some suggestions from me:
> 
> ...


Your title is also a bit ambiguous. Do you mean infracstructure strictly in terms of large scale projects, or do new inventions/innovations count as well?


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## Karakuri (Dec 5, 2006)

coth said:


> http://english.people.com.cn/200702/15/eng20070215_350206.html
> 
> TGV - 553kmph now. They need just 29 kmph more to break maglev speed record.


That was an unofficial test, the real one is expected to be carried out in april, with a goal of 560/570km/h.


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