# SAUDI ARABIA | Railways



## HiJazzey (Jun 26, 2003)

Hello,

Saudi Arabia is embarking in a huge expansion of it's railway infrastructure. This expansion comes in the form of three major railway projects, one public, the other two public-private. Below I'll give a brief outline of each project with a route map.

I hope you enjoy.

*North South Railway (NSR)*










This is a public project to build a heavy duty railway to serve the mining industry. It's funded by the Ministry of Finance and the Saudi Public Investment Fund (PIF). It's main focus is the transport of mineral ore from the mines of north (Bauxite from Zabirah, Phosphate from Jalamid and Basayta) to a new integrated mineral industrial city at Ras az Zawr on the gulf coast. It will also cater for general passenger and freight traffic with spurs going to Riyadh and also to the Jordanian border. In total, 2,400km of track will be laid, done in 4 phases:

Phase 1: 650km Ras az-Zawr - Zabirah
Phase 2: 782km Zabirah - Hail - Jouf - Jalamid
Phase 3: 530km Zabirah junction - Buraidah - Riyadh
Phase 4: 438km Spurs to Basayta and Haditha (border town)

----

*Saudi Landbridge*










This is a 1,500km project to link Saudi Arabia's east and west coasts. The project entails the building of over 1000km of new track as well as the upgrade of current railway infrastructure. The main focus of the project is the transport of containerised freight, for either local consumption or more importantly trans-shipment. The project is expected to dramatically alter shipping patterns in the region. It will also offer a fast passenger service, linking Saudi Arabia's 3 main population centres (Jeddah-Riyadh-Dammam), with a specified operating speed of 220km/h. This project is offered as a BOT concession. Prequalification is complete, we're now at the RFP stage.

*Mecca Medina Rail Link*










This is a 450km high speed rail project. It links the holy cities of Mecca and Medina via the commercial port city of Jeddah (and also Rabigh). It is offered as a DBOT concession. 7 consortia have submitted for prequalification. The concession is technology neutral and there's no interlinking requirement in the specification, giving the opportunity for non steel rail technologies, such as Maglev.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

Interesting...sounds great.


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## HiJazzey (Jun 26, 2003)

Some news, the contract for phase 2 of NSR was awarded to Mitsui of Japan.


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## Yardmaster (Jun 1, 2004)

Very significant projects! What about the former link to Damascus ?

Will the bauxite be processed in Saudi Arabia?


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## HiJazzey (Jun 26, 2003)

Yardmaster said:


> Very significant projects! What about the former link to Damascus ?


You mean the Hijaz railway. There was some talk of restoring a section of track ex-Medina to operate tourist rides, but nothing more.



Yardmaster said:


> Will the bauxite be processed in Saudi Arabia?


Yes, An Alumina refinery and an Aluminium smelter are under construction at Ras az-Zawr


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## Yardmaster (Jun 1, 2004)

Seems like a very major project to me.


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## fettishma (Apr 9, 2007)

absolutely stunning 
rail on vast stretches of desert


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## HiJazzey (Jun 26, 2003)

The SRO has announced the list of prequalified consortia for MMRL. The following have been issued with RFTPs:

1. Saudi Japanese Consortium: led by ACWA , Mitsubishi Heavy Industries , Al-Mohaidib and sons.
2. al-Rajhi alliance: led by MADA group , Bouygues Travaux Publics. , Alstom Transport
3. Saudi Binladin Group: led by Saudi Binladin , Deutsche Bahn , Siemens
4. OHL International: led by OHL , Consolidated Contractors Co. , Compania Auxiliar De Ferrocarriles
5. al-Shoula consortium: led by Vision Transportation Group, Patentes Talgo, Renfe
6. Saudi Oger consortium: Saudi Oger , al-Saif Engineering & Contracting , Ansaldo Transporti Sistemi Ferroviari

Full listing of consortia members here: http://www.saudirailexpansion.com/s.../Pre-qualified Consortia for MMRL Project.pdf


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## Pavlov's Dog (Aug 2, 2007)

Does the landbridge stop in Mecca on it's way between Riyadh and Jeddah?


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## asif iqbal (Sep 3, 2006)

The Ottomans made a railway from Damascus to Mecca 100 years ago since then there has been no railway projects of significance in middleast apart from Tehran subway if u call it middleast.


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## elfreako (Mar 7, 2004)

I demand that the Saudis link Dubai with the network NOW!!!


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*Agility eyes $10 bln Saudi rail project -report *

DUBAI, Dec 2 (Reuters) - Kuwaiti logistics firm Agility and a group of Saudi and foreign firms submitted bids for a $10 billion Saudi railway project, the company's chairman said. 

Chairman Tarek al-Sultan said the firm had bid in a consortium with U.S. firms KBR Inc , General Electric Co and Saudi Arabia's Al Rajhi Bank , Kuwaiti daily Al-Wasat reported, without naming the project. 

An award will be made at the start of 2008, the paper said. 

Four groups of Saudi and international firms are vying for the contract to build and operate a 1,100 km (683.5 mile) railway crossing the Saudi Arabian desert, after submitting bids in early November, the Saudi Railway Organisation (SRO) said on its Web site. 

The so-called Saudi Landbridge project includes a 950 km line between capital Riyadh and the Red Sea port of Jeddah, as well as a 115 km link between the industrial city of Jubail and Dammam, the oil hub on the Gulf coast. 

The Landbridge is one of the projects Saudi Arabia is using to tap a regional economic boom -- powered by a quadrupling of oil prices in the past six years -- to develop infrastructure, tourism and industry. 

The Saudi Railways Organisation expects the winning bid to be less than $6 billion dollars, Mohammad Afzal Khan, advisor to the organisation's president, told Reuters in October. 

Saudi Binladin Group heads a group including Japan's Mitsui & Co , India's Ircon International , Germany's Siemens , Deutsche Bank and Deutsche Bahn [DBN.UL], according to the SRO. 

Rajhi Investment is heading the group with Mada Company for Industrial & Commercial Investment. Other members include Canada's SNC-Lavalin and Saudi Arabia's Samba Financial Group . 

The fourth consortium, led by Saudi family-owned business Al-Muhaidib & Sons, includes South Korea's Samsung Engineering & Construction and French bank BNP Paribas . 

The Saudi Landbridge is one of several rail projects the kingdom is planning. 

Six international groups are expected to submit proposals by January to build a high-speed link between Mecca and Medina, Khan said. 

Swiss bank UBS and Saudi Arabia's National Commercial Bank are advising the Saudi Railways Organisation on this project and the Landbridge. 

The Public Investment Fund is overseeing the construction of a 2,400 km north-south freight railway. (Writing by John Irish, editing by Will Waterman)


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## hakz2007 (Jul 1, 2007)

*TURKEY JOSTLES FOR MAKKAH-MADINAH HIGH SPEED TRAIN BID AMONG INDUSTRIAL* 


> ANKARA, May 22 (NNN-KUNA) -- Turkey will join a bid as part of an industrial consortium on constructing a speedy train line between Makkah and Madinah, western of Saudi Arabia, at a cost of more than USD 1.5 billion, Turkish stated-owned Railways (TCDD) said here Friday.
> 
> The TCDD said in a statement it will join a consotrium including German Siemens Group, Saudi Bin laden Group (SBG) and the China Railway Engineering Corporation (CREC) in the open tender on setting up the Makkah-Madinah high speed train that is due to be announced on June 3, 2010.
> 
> ...


http://namnewsnetwork.org/v2/read.php?id=121141


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## TheKorean (Apr 11, 2010)

A question. since this is Saudi Araba, does their trains have to deal with the sands?


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## SamuraiBlue (Apr 2, 2010)

The bigger problem would be temperature differential. 
40 degree C in day time and 10 degree in night is going to take it's toll on the rail.


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## HyperMiler (Apr 18, 2010)

SamuraiBlue said:


> The bigger problem would be temperature differential.
> 40 degree C in day time and 10 degree in night is going to take it's toll on the rail.


Chinese construction company laid down the track, so we will soon find out how well it lasts under the heat.

BTW, the train set supplier listed in the article is Siemens and not China South Locomotive. If that's the case, then it's going to be a competitive bidding since Chinese bid won't cost less, if any, than rival French, Korean, and Italian bids.

Edit : Never mind, the Bin Laden consortium is still alive and this news is abut Turkey's participation in the Bin Laden consortium.

So Siemens' participating in two bids, in Bin Laden consortium as a train set and signaling equipment supplier and in Chinese Consortium was a signaling equipment supplier.

I wonder how Siemens managed to pull it off.


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## k.k.jetcar (Jul 17, 2008)

I think the Chinese have experience building railway infrastructure in extreme conditions- they _do_ have deserts in their country, as well as high altitude lines such as in Tibet. And after all, if China has experience building the best HSR track in the world, as some forum contributors are always quick to claim, what's there to worry??


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## HyperMiler (Apr 18, 2010)

k.k.jetcar said:


> And after all, if China has experience building the best HSR track in the world


The longest, yes.
The best, widely disputed.



> what's there to worry??


Safety of passengers.


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## SamuraiBlue (Apr 2, 2010)

k.k.jetcar said:


> I think the Chinese have experience building railway infrastructure in extreme conditions- they _do_ have deserts in their country, as well as high altitude lines such as in Tibet. And after all, if China has experience building the best HSR track in the world, as some forum contributors are always quick to claim, what's there to worry??


I believe it will be a tough environment whichever country may lay the tracks. The tracks baked under the sun will probably reach 50~80 degree C and will be cooled to 10~15 degree C when the sun goes down.
Steel tracks creeps under these extreme temperature differences unless they are held down firmly to the concrete. The quality of steel tracks also plays a role so it will be essential that the contractor does not skimp the quality to gain extra profit or it will completely ruin the reputation where no one will take PRC seriously in the future.


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## Andres_Low (Apr 21, 2010)

There is no such a place in China to compare with the temperature conditions in Saudi Arabia (with HSR running at least), but I imagine that chinese engineers know what they do, its not that tricky.

It all depends on contract specs, what should be the estimated lifespan for this civil works?

The annual mean temperatures in the area is about 25-29ºC, just to compare with the hottest place in Spain, with a "milder" avg. annual temps of 21ºC hitting easely 47ºC in august , the HSL runs since 1992 with no major problems.. The use of additives in the concrete to improve strenght and conductivity such as polymers and retarders to avoid shrinkage are widely used and oviously impacts in the final performance and lifespan. 

hey, that is why regular inspections are for right?


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## Restless (Oct 31, 2009)

Railway fatalities comparison

Deaths per "billion passenger km" travelled in 2007

Germany 0.4
UK 0.3
France 0.2
EU Average 0.8

Source is a British parliament 2010 briefing paper below http://www.parliament.uk/briefingpapers/commons/lib/research/briefings/snsg-02043.pdf

When I look at the chinese figures for 2007, I see 7 fatalities with overall passenger km of 721 billion passenger km which translates to:

China 0.009

That would mean the Chinese railway network is much safer than the system in Europe. Am I missing something?


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## HyperMiler (Apr 18, 2010)

Again, this is a material science issue.

The problem is that Chinese are still a decade or two behind the West in material science and they may not have produced rail that could withstand Saudi heat.

After all, China is a country that still cannot produce high strength automotive steel sheet needed to pass US and Eu crash test regulation and must import those from Japan, so I wouldn't put my faith in Chinese produced steel product, such as locomotive wheels, axles, and rail.

With Chinese, you are taking a gamble with people's lives. The problem is that people's lives aren't worth much in China and Chinese tend to think of the same with foreigner's lives.


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## Restless (Oct 31, 2009)

HyperMiler said:


> Again, this is a material science issue.
> 
> The problem is that Chinese are still a decade or two behind the West in material science and they may not have produced rail that could withstand Saudi heat.
> 
> ...


These comments are ill-informed and highly inaccurate. There are numerous pockets of excellence in each industry that do produce to world-class standards.

Those are the only words I will waste on the matter


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## HyperMiler (Apr 18, 2010)

Restless said:


> These comments are ill-informed and highly inaccurate.


They are extremely accurate.

Ever wonder why Chinese cars do so poorly on youtube crash test videos? Because Chinese automakers competing on price couldn't afford to use expensive imported steel to build their cars.



> There are numerous pockets of excellence in each industry that do produce to world-class standards.


Such as? I can't think of any. I had this debate with other Chinese posters elsewhere, but their ideas of finest Chinese brand products were considered to be cheap poor quality junks in the West, like Haier fridge and Lenovo laptops. 

Chinese do a fine job when they work for foreigners, iPhone and iPad being an example.

Chinese do a poor job when they work for Chinese employers. Why? Because Chinese employers cut corners and have a low quality and business ethnics standard.


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## zaphod (Dec 8, 2005)

I believe there are highways and rail lines in China built across plains of shifting loess, they plant sod and build windbreaks along the ROW to mitigate this problem. Besides, between Riyadh and Mecca its more of a rocky basin type of desert, a reg? The big ergs, Rub-al-Khali and dune seas are to the south, correct?



> like Haier fridge and Lenovo laptops.


Honestly, shut up and stop being off-topic. FYI, I own a lenovo laptop


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## HyperMiler (Apr 18, 2010)

zaphod said:


> Honestly, shut up and stop being off-topic.


It's not off-topic since that was an illustration of Chinese concept of quality, which is different from Western concept.



> FYI, I own a lenovo laptop


So would you consider your Lenovo to be a high-quality laptop?


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## foxmulder (Dec 1, 2007)

Temperature variations in Tibetan Plateau or Gobi Desert are more dramatic than those of Arabian Desert. I don't see any problem for Chinese. If anything, Chinese are the most experienced ones on this.


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## HyperMiler (Apr 18, 2010)

foxmulder said:


> Temperature variations in Tibetan Plateau or Gobi Desert are more dramatic than those of Arabian Desert. I don't see any problem for Chinese. If anything, Chinese are the most experienced ones on this.


Do Chinese have high speed rail in Tibet or Gobi desert? I don't think so.

Margin of tolerance is a lot greater with conventional rail than with high speed rail.


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## Peloso (May 17, 2006)

HyperMiler said:


> Do Chinese have high speed rail in Tibet or Gobi desert? I don't think so.


If you want to be a professional anti-Chinese activist (and devoting, like you do, your whole day to this cause) you should at least document a bit.


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## MTF (May 31, 2007)

Is this thread about Saudi Railways or China bashing??


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## UD2 (Jan 21, 2006)

I put Hypermiller on ignore. Others should do it too, it's a great function.

On the Saudi HSR topic. What affect will sand have on the rails and its useful life? At such high speeds, even a little bit of sand residing on the rails can cause tons of friction and errosion to both the tracks and wheeles. At least i think so. Anyone have an idea?


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## binhai (Dec 22, 2006)

I think having elevated tracks with walls on the side (as in CRH) will help prevent sand except from the most extreme sandstorms from going on to the tracks


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## SamuraiBlue (Apr 2, 2010)

The track will not have much problem with sand the bigger problem would be the trains since the motors and trans are air cooled. 
If the sand is powdery it will no doubt mess up the filter and those systems.


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## Restless (Oct 31, 2009)

I think the new Lanxin 350km/h railway faces a similar environmental challenge as it passes through a range of deserts, sandstorms and temperatures. Plus it looks like construction started about the same time as Haramain

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanxin_High-Speed_Railway

"Construction work began on November 4, 2009. The 1,776-kilometre (1,104 mi) long railway will take 5 years to complete, of which, 795 km (494 mi) is in Gansu, 268 km (167 mi) in Qinghai and 713 km (443 mi) in Xinjiang. 31 stations will be built along the line. The project costs 143.5 billion yuan"

"The rail tracks in the section near Qilianshan Tunnel will be at 3600 meters above sea level, making the railway the highest high-speed railway in the world"

"Near Turpan, the railway will go through the famous 100-li wind region, where wind constantly blow in most days of a year. In 2007, strong wind in that area overturned a train on the south branch of Lanxin Railway, and four people were killed. A 67-km long wind-protection gallery will be built in this region"
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Here are some comments and a photo of the Turpan region where the railway is passing

http://www.johomaps.com/as/china/xinjiang/travel/photos05/turpan.htm

"The average surface temperature range at Turpan is 43C in summer and -32C in winter"

"The surface of the ground is on average 50C in summer, although it can be as hot as 80C"

"58C = surface temperature, apparently it was a cool day!"


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

The truth is that China didn't develop a single mile of HSR on its own. All the technology was imported, then copied and re-branded as "Chinese", e.g.:

- Transrapid (Siemens) + Chinese rip-off maglev
- Xinshisu (ADtranz)
- CRH1 (Bombardier)
- CRH2 (Kawasaki Shinkansen family)
- CRH3 (Siemens)
- CRH5 (Alstom)
- Track technology imported from Germany
- Signal technology ERTMS (Bombardier)
and so on...

These are facts, unlike the Chinese propaganda. However, I'm sure that the Chinese can do a decent job in Saudi Arabia, as what they apply is European/North American technology that does work.


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## David2009 (Apr 6, 2009)

rheintram said:


> The truth is that China didn't develop a single mile of HSR on its own. All the technology was imported, then copied and re-branded as "Chinese", e.g.:
> 
> - Transrapid (Siemens) + Chinese rip-off maglev
> - Xinshisu (ADtranz)
> ...


Tell me which country can provide 350KM/H railway service? If you can't, please shut up.


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

David2009 said:


> Tell me which country can provide 350KM/H railway service? If you can't, please shut up.


Those who lack arguments, start to insult


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## foxmulder (Dec 1, 2007)

rheintram said:


> The truth is that China didn't develop a single mile of HSR on its own. All the technology was imported, then copied and re-branded as "Chinese", e.g.:
> 
> - Transrapid (Siemens) + Chinese rip-off maglev
> - Xinshisu (ADtranz)
> ...


So??

This what exactly anyone who wants to reach a technological point does. If someone else has it, and dont mind selling it to you there is nothing wrong to acquire it. 

Once you bought the technology, if you can developed it further you can rightfully claim it as your own design. This is how technology develops and how science go further. 

China already markets its high speed rail track building capacity, in very close future it will start marketing signaling and rolling stock too. 

China is the by far the biggest market. It has companies and R&D projects focused on this industry, it is only natural that it will shape the future of it too. If it somehow cannot then there is a failure and missed opportunity for China.


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## Restless (Oct 31, 2009)

If you have shifting sands, then this looks like the way to handle it

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*World’s Longest Desert Road*

http://www.hottnez.com/worlds-longest-desert-road/

Desert, as we think is no more lifeless; it has become the world’s miracle! Yes, believe it or not, the Tarim Desert highway better known as Cross desert Highway has been declared as the world’s longest desert road from being buried by the sand. This highway was mainly built, using sand control meshing in 1995 to move oil from Tarim basin. Crossing the Taklamakan desert from North to South, this 552-kilometers highway links China National Highway314 and China National Highway 315 simultaneously.

To prevent the road from being buried by sand, Chinese authorities have built a 60-meter wide tree belt along the route with massive irrigation system. The building of the tree-belt with bushes and other vegetation has been done for better anchoring of sand with its roots. This protective green belt has not only improved the ecological environment but also played a vital role in the ecological prevention of sand.










You would be surprised to know that the beautification of this longest desert road has been done with two million rose willows, sacsaoul and buckthorn. An approximate amount of 50 tree varieties have been chosen that mainly includes small leaf dwarf trees that not only loose moisture slowly but are the best resistant to arid conditions. Now, you decide whether it is desert or something else!


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## UD2 (Jan 21, 2006)

rheintram said:


> The truth is that China didn't develop a single mile of HSR on its own. All the technology was imported, then copied and re-branded as "Chinese", e.g.:
> 
> - Transrapid (Siemens) + Chinese rip-off maglev
> - Xinshisu (ADtranz)
> ...


cool story? Here's another story

If I'm very rich, let's say rich enough to get your wife to sleep with me, she'll still be your wife and you'll probably still have a piece of paper to prove it. But what if I had bought her a nice new penthhouse for her to stay in with lots of cute little dresses and gems in the closet, and I visit this nice new penthhouse ever so often to with her as I wish at the time of my choosing. Then can I say that she is also my woman? Or should we simply choose to maintain the delusion that she's still exclusively yours? 

... anyways back on topic... 

So when are they closing the bid and who else is bidding aginst


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## The Dude of Dhahran (Dec 1, 2009)

Change the thread name to - Saudi Arabia Railway News & China Bashing - 


------


This is a map by the Saudi Railways Organization for the future railways system in KSA










The Green, Orange , Blue and Light Blue Lines will have a 240 KM/H trains, the Red Line will have 320 KM/H trains, these line will serve as connection between cites.
Along with these line there will be another type of lines that will server as a connection between the city districts. ( At this moment only Riyadh, Jeddah, Mecca, Medina and KAEC will have this system )


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

All your stories about my alleged wives and so on are nice and say a lot about your characters, but are irrelevant. If China hires a European/American company to provide technology for its railway system, it doesn't automatically acquire the rights to that technology. That's a fact. I know that China doesn't care much about intellectual property, but that's a different story.

The fact is, that China wouldn't have been able to build its high-speed-rail network without European/American technology. That's nothing to be ashamed of. Not at all. But it's something that should be acknowledged. Unfortunately that seems to be hard for some 'fanboys' in here. But don't worry, you are not alone. There's plenty of stubborn, clueless people out there.


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## YelloPerilo (Oct 17, 2003)

rheintram said:


> All your stories about my alleged wives and so on are nice and say a lot about your characters, but are irrelevant. If China hires a European/American company to provide technology for its railway system, it doesn't automatically acquire the rights to that technology. That's a fact. I know that China doesn't care much about intellectual property, but that's a different story.
> 
> The fact is, that China wouldn't have been able to build its high-speed-rail network without European/American technology. That's nothing to be ashamed of. Not at all. But it's something that should be acknowledged. Unfortunately that seems to be hard for some 'fanboys' in here. But don't worry, you are not alone. There's plenty of stubborn, clueless people out there.


American high-speed rail technology? :rofl: :lol: :rofl:


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## k.k.jetcar (Jul 17, 2008)

> American high-speed rail technology?


Replace term "American" with "Japanese" = fixed.


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## eminencia (Apr 8, 2007)

David2009 said:


> Tell me which country can provide 350KM/H railway service? If you can't, please shut up.


France


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## k.k.jetcar (Jul 17, 2008)

As samuraiblue has repeatedly remarked, the main issue will be dealing with the fine sand of the desert environment. Modern track takes into account expansion and contraction due to temperature variations. EMD has for years supplied diesel locomotives to the Saudi Arabian Railways which are equipped with filters to prevent fine sand from clogging the cooling equipment. Similarly, I believe _Siemens_ will utilize microfilters on the trainsets they provide for this line (obviously Siemens is not a Chinese company).

And can people tone down the whole "my train line is faster than yours" schoolboy bragging? Any competent railway company or railcar builder has the capability to run or build trains capable of 350kmh speeds or above. It's just some don't have the _need_ (due to distances or service frequencies) or the _financial justification _(higher maintenence/infrastructure costs). Each nation/railway system has its needs, be it operational/commercial (or _political_). Equating high top speeds with "better" (whatever that means) is too simplistic.


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## UD2 (Jan 21, 2006)

rheintram said:


> All your stories about my alleged wives and so on are nice and say a lot about your characters, but are irrelevant. If China hires a European/American company to provide technology for its railway system, it doesn't automatically acquire the rights to that technology. That's a fact. I know that China doesn't care much about intellectual property, but that's a different story.
> 
> The fact is, that China wouldn't have been able to build its high-speed-rail network without European/American technology. That's nothing to be ashamed of. Not at all. But it's something that should be acknowledged. Unfortunately that seems to be hard for some 'fanboys' in here. But don't worry, you are not alone. There's plenty of stubborn, clueless people out there.


seems you're the only one clueless. Welcome to the real world.



As with the Saudi railway. 

are there any timelines as to when these lines are to be constructed?


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## Revas (Aug 19, 2006)

k.k.jetcar said:


> *And can people tone down the whole "my train line is faster than yours" schoolboy bragging*? Any competent railway company or railcar builder has the capability to run or build trains capable of 350kmh speeds or above. It's just some don't have the _need_ (due to distances or service frequencies) or the _financial justification _(higher maintenence/infrastructure costs). Each nation/railway system has its needs, be it operational/commercial (or _political_). Equating high top speeds with "better" (whatever that means) is too simplistic.


You're the voice of reason here. Thanks.


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

YelloPerilo said:


> American high-speed rail technology? :rofl: :lol: :rofl:


I guess he thought about Bombardier. :dunno:


Anyway, its a rather pointless discussion due to the lack of arguments and ignorance at least on one side. hno:


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

YelloPerilo said:


> American high-speed rail technology? :rofl: :lol: :rofl:


thun already said it. Bombardier is Canadian. America is more than just the US. 

...wer zuletzt lacht...

@k.k.jetcar: Right, japanese shouldn't be forgotten, of course. My bad.


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## nineth (May 14, 2005)

a lot of canadians don't want to be identified as americans, rather they say we are canadians , but not americans


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## particlez (May 5, 2008)

nineth said:


> a lot of canadians don't want to be identified as americans, rather they say we are canadians , but not americans


for the purposes of this thread, it's about four legs good, two legs bad.

the differences between canadians and americans can pretty much be glossed over.


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## MarcVD (Dec 1, 2008)

SamuraiBlue said:


> The track will not have much problem with sand the bigger problem would be the trains since the motors and trans are air cooled.
> If the sand is powdery it will no doubt mess up the filter and those systems.


With the combination of sand+wind (both of which they have plenty over there), pollution of the ballast by sand will unavoidably occur. Unless of
course they are planning to lay their track on a concrete slab and not on
ballast.

However, the most adverse effect of sand pollution that I know is retention
of water. This, of course, is not going to happen very frequently in the middle
of the desert.

What can be the other bad effects of pollution of the ballast by sand in
a quasi-desertic environment ?

Regarding the rolling stock, I do not believe that producing motive power that
can resist to the harsh conditions encountered in the desert is so easy. In
Iran, which has similar conditions to what we discuss here, only US 
manufacturers managed to provide any. GM-made locs that are now 40 years 
old still run smoothly, while the Alstom-provided engines, only 10 years old, 
did not resist and are already amost all out of service. One wonders whether
the new Siemens locs that are delivered right now will resist any longer...


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

nineth said:


> a lot of canadians don't want to be identified as americans, rather they say we are canadians , but not americans


So Canada is a country in Australia or what? :bash:


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## YelloPerilo (Oct 17, 2003)

rheintram said:


> thun already said it. Bombardier is Canadian. America is more than just the US.
> 
> ...wer zuletzt lacht...
> 
> @k.k.jetcar: Right, japanese shouldn't be forgotten, of course. My bad.


Too bad that no Canadian would call himself/herself an American. 

Talking about "wer zuletzt lacht ..." it's the Chinese who are laughting on their way to the bank. Siemens cannot even do this job by itself and has to co-operate with a Chinese company. :lol:


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## k.k.jetcar (Jul 17, 2008)

> it's the Chinese who are laughting on their way to the bank. Siemens cannot even do this job by itself and has to co-operate with a Chinese company.


Also, you cannot discount the possibility this was a political deal- after all, China needs all the oil it can get, and in partial lieu of payment in US$, maybe they got this concession.


----------



## Restless (Oct 31, 2009)

k.k.jetcar said:


> Also, you cannot discount the possibility this was a political deal- after all, China needs all the oil it can get, and in partial lieu of payment in US$, maybe they got this concession.


We're talking about Saudi Arabia here... of course it is a political deal... none of the big contracts are ever decided purely on the commercials

Remember that as part of the Iran sanctions deal, Saudi Arabia agreed to supply China with as much oil as they wanted.

The rail contract will probably have come during the sanctions discussions.


----------



## hakz2007 (Jul 1, 2007)

*Bombardier railway contracts won't fully offset aerospace weakness: analysts*


> MONTREAL - Bombardier's ability to attract lucrative new railway contracts, like a US$241-million automated monorail system in Saudi Arabia announced Monday, will cushion the blow of its struggling aerospace business, industry analysts say.
> 
> The Montreal-based plane and train manufacturer is expected to announce Wednesday that its first-quarter profits fell to seven cents per share from nine cents last year.
> 
> ...


http://www.canadianbusiness.com/markets/headline_news/article.jsp?content=b3511343&utm_source=markets&utm_medium=rss

*Bombardier signs US$241M contract with Saudi Oger*


> Bombardier Inc. signed a US$241-million contract to build and operate a new monorail system in Saudi Arabia Monday.
> 
> The Montreal transportation giant said it had penned the deal with Saudi Oger Ltd., a leading Saudi Arabian construction company, for the new 3.6 km Innovia Monorail system in Riyadh.
> 
> ...


http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=3092015
*
China-made subways to debut in Saudi Arabia*


> Two subway trains made in China have been successfully delivered to Saudi Arabia, representing the first A-type metro export program of China, the State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission of the State Council (SASAC) announced yesterday
> 
> The two subway trains are the first batch made by Changchun Railway Vehicles Co., Ltd (CRC) of China for Saudi Arabia's Makkah light rail project. They were entirely designed and manufactured by CRC.
> 
> ...


http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90778/90861/7000662.html


----------



## hakz2007 (Jul 1, 2007)

*Saudi Railways extends Haramain bidding until July 3rd* 


> (MENAFN) Saudi Railways Organization (SRO) announced that it has extended the due date to July 3rd for the bidding round of the second phase of Haramain High Speed Railway Project (HHR) that will connect Makkah and Madinah via Jeddah, Reuters reported.
> 
> SRO President, Abdulaziz Al Hokail said that the extension decision was taken after a number of consortia requested for an extension for the period granted to them to submit their technical and financial proposals.
> 
> ...


http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story_s.asp?StoryId=1093344685


----------



## hakz2007 (Jul 1, 2007)

*Makkah Metro will have 20 trains*


> MAKKAH: Municipal and Rural Affairs Minister Prince Mansour bin Miteb on Tuesday inspected the Makkah Metro which is designed to transport 70,000 pilgrims in an hour between the holy sites of Makkah, Mina, Arafat and Muzdalifa during the peak days of Haj.
> 
> Speaking to reporters after inspecting the metro, which is also called Mashair Railway, Prince Mansour allayed public fears about the quality of the project, adding that it involves French, Canadian and German technology.
> 
> ...


http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidZAWYA20100616031801/Makkah Metro will have 20 trains


----------



## Neb81 (Jun 14, 2010)

All deals on this scale involve political considerations. Nonetheless, the amount of Anti-China rhetoric here is surprising. Whilst Chinese industrial safety regulations are below western ones in some respects, it should be borne in mind that manufactures all across the world are used to working with different regulations for different markets. Take American cars for example. Ford builds cars for the US market that are totally different to some models it sells in Europe as we have different safety and environmental regulations, and the same is true for European manufacturers selling in the US. Manufactures just localise the goods they produce and the Chinese do the same. For all this talk about how dangerous Chinese goods are, a myriad of them are exported legally the US, Europe and elsewhere in Asia every year, and get the the health and safety regulatory hoops just fine.

China has handled large overseas development projects before (including railways - they are involved in the Northrail project in the Philippines, and also worked on the TAZARA railway project in Zambia back in the 70's.


----------



## HyperMiler (Apr 18, 2010)

http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFLDE6611PZ20100702

Alstom's bid for the 2nd phase is valued $12.5 billion. 

Is Alstom really submitting a $12.5 billion bid or are they trying to confuse its competitors?


----------



## dumbfword (Apr 27, 2010)

It'll most likely be the Chinese/Siemens Consortium that wins it.


----------



## HyperMiler (Apr 18, 2010)

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iDj_IG2i2oyLTzMkdXoNHlNFsitQ



> French, Spanish groups vie for huge Mecca rail contract
> 
> (AFP) – 5 hours ago
> 
> ...


What, Siemens, Chinese and Koreans did not submit their bids by due date? What's going on?


----------



## dumbfword (Apr 27, 2010)

Wow. Would be a massive win for Alstom and I'm guessing the Spanish one is with CAF.


----------



## Restless (Oct 31, 2009)

I smell something fishy with the Sheikhs...


----------



## HyperMiler (Apr 18, 2010)

Restless said:


> I smell something fishy with the Sheikhs...


Yes, something is wrong, when Chinese and Koreans, two lowest bidders, wouldn't even bid.

So Alstom is the default winner, and you will see TGV Duplex running on that railway.


----------



## hans280 (Jun 13, 2008)

HyperMiler said:


> Yes, something is wrong, when Chinese and Koreans, two lowest bidders, wouldn't even bid.
> 
> So Alstom is the default winner, and you will see TGV Duplex running on that railway.


...or the new AGV? I have the impression that the landscape in western Saudi Arabia is quite hilly. The TGV Duplex is a heavy train to pull up a hillside, whereas the AGV with its distributed motoring units should be much more of a "climber".


----------



## HyperMiler (Apr 18, 2010)

hans280 said:


> ...or the new AGV? I have the impression that the landscape in western Saudi Arabia is quite hilly. The TGV Duplex is a heavy train to pull up a hillside, whereas the AGV with its distributed motoring units should be much more of a "climber".


According to press report, Alstom's proposing TGV and not AGV.


----------



## Luli Pop (Jun 14, 2010)

Restless said:


> I smell something fishy with the Sheikhs...


^^

+1

It always smells fish when Alstom wins bids.


----------



## hans280 (Jun 13, 2008)

Luli Pop said:


> It always smells fish when Alstom wins bids.


Yeah, well... I guess this depends on one's perspective? As a foreign resident of France I've had to get used to a few little idiosyncracies of the thinking here in Paris. For example, the world of business is considered as something slightly "shabby" which should absolutely be placed under political control and subjugated to social policy (in the case of domestic business) or foreign policy (in the case of international businss) priorities. 

The deal concerning Mekkah-Medineh is a classic example. It is widely rumoured to have been bundled with the recent agreement by the French government to help the Saudi Arabia develop nuclear technologies. In brief, Iranian nuclear ambitions have created a window of opportunity for France to impress it merchandise on frightened Gulf states, and the French government intends to seize it. Most French people think that's THE way to conduct international business... hno:


----------



## hakz2007 (Jul 1, 2007)

*Multi billion dollar boost for GCC railways*


> DOHA: Rail projects have become a point of focus in the GCC with multi-billion dollar investments being made by each Gulf state, including Qatar.
> 
> A countrywide $11bn railway network in the UAE with 1,500km will be rolled out over the next 7-8 years. Moreover, Abu Dhabi has revealed plans for a new rail network serving the city of Al Ain in the emirate's Eastern Region, an expert said.
> 
> ...


http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidZAWYA20100717052417/Multi Billion Dollar Boost For GCC Railways


----------



## ibib (May 5, 2009)




----------



## ibib (May 5, 2009)

*The SAR Railway initially will serve three broad markets. *
1.First is the heavy-haul mineral traffic consisting of phosphate from mines at Al-Jalamid which will move in unit trains to processing facilities at Ras Az-Zawr, and bauxite from mines at Az Zabirah which will also move in unit trains to processing facilities at Ras Az Zawr

2. The second market to be developed is that for the movement of general freight traffic moving in conventional and intermodal service. The other part of the general freight traffic will be a bulk type such as petroleum products and chemicals. Another part of the general freight traffic, however, will likely be most suitable for handling in intermodal (trailer-on-flat car) service. 


3.*The third broad market is a high speed rail passenger service (200 kilometre/hour) between Riyadh and Al-Haditha serving the stations of Riyadh, King Khaled International Airport, Sudair, Qaseem, Hail, Al-Jawf and Al Haditha.*


----------



## HyperMiler (Apr 18, 2010)

Now we know why Chinese dropped out of Saudi high speed rail bid, probably the same for Siemens and Rotem.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/900303a6-8e9e-11df-8a67-00144feab49a.html



> An historic deal that would have been China’s first sale of high-speed trains abroad has fallen through after state-controlled China Southern Railway Corp dropped its bid to service the Mecca-Medina “pilgrim express” in Saudi Arabia.
> 
> The company, which was considered the frontrunner to win the contract, *blamed technical factors including the harsh desert environment*, but said it remains committed to rapid overseas expansion.


In other news, CSR wins a deal with supply 10 conventional locomotives to Saudi Arabia as a consolation prize.

http://www.capitalvue.com/home/CE-news/inset/@10063/post/1210873


----------



## Ariel74 (Oct 2, 2009)

eminencia said:


> France


which line? Don't tell me about plans and so forth. The truth is that China is the only country that currently does it. By the time France has a 350km/h service line - if it ever does - there will be 380km/h services in China already.


----------



## HyperMiler (Apr 18, 2010)

Ariel74 said:


> which line?









> The truth is that China is the only country that currently does it.


Not safely.


----------



## Restless (Oct 31, 2009)

*World's 'fastest' train unveiled *(news video from Dec2009 below)

http://www.france24.com/en/20091226-worlds-fastest-train-unveiled

China put into service the world's "fastest" rail link on Saturday, with speeds over 350 kilometers per hour between Guangzhou and Wuhan.
By News Wires (text)

AFP - China on Saturday unveiled what it billed as the fastest rail link in the world -- a train connecting the modern cities of Guangzhou and Wuhan at an average speed of 350 kilometres (217 miles) an hour.

The super-high-speed train reduces the 1,069 kilometre journey to a three hour ride and cuts the previous journey time by more than seven and a half hours, the official Xinhua news agency said.

Work on the project began in 2005 as part of plans to expand a high-speed network aimed at eventually linking Guangzhou, a business hub in southern China near Hong Kong, with the capital Beijing, Xinhua added.

"The train can go 394.2 kilometres per hour, it's the fastest train in operation in the world," Zhang Shuguang, head of the transport bureau at the railways ministry, told Xinhua.

Test runs for the service began earlier in December and the link officially went into service when the first scheduled train left the eastern metropolis of Wuhan on Saturday.

By comparison, the average for high-speed trains in Japan was 243 kilometres per hour while in France it was 277 kilometres per hour, said Xu Fangliang, general engineer in charge of designing the link, according to Xinhua.

Beijing has an ambitious rail development programme aimed at increasing the national network from the current 86,000 kilometres to 120,000 kilometres, making it the most extensive rail system outside the United States.

China unveiled its first high-speed line at the time of the Beijing Olympics in 2008 -- a service linking the capital with the port city of Tianjin.

In September, officials said they planned to build 42 high-speed lines by 2012 in a massive system overhaul as part of efforts to spur economic growth amid the global downturn.

The network uses technology developed in co-operation with foreign firms such as Siemens, Bombardier and Alstom.


----------



## Andres_Low (Apr 21, 2010)

Guys, what´s the point? actually, is there any saudi that could contribute to make this thread more interesting? so far this seems to be a chinese propaganda branch promoting their technology than anything else.

I wonder why CRH Siemens and Roten really withdrew from the negotiations for the HSR, I cannot believe it is for technical reasons...


----------



## hakz2007 (Jul 1, 2007)

*Saudi Electric Co wins $488m Haramain rail deal*


> Saudi Arabia’s long-awaited Haramain Railway looks set to open by early 2013, according to the terms of the network’s power contract, which has just been awarded.
> 
> Arab News reported that the Saudi Electricity Company (SEC) had won the $488m deal to supply the electricity required by the rail link, and that the firm’s president had agreed to complete all works and services by the end of 2012.
> 
> The 450km railway will link the two holy cities of Makkah and Madinah with the port city of Jeddah.


http://www.arabianbusiness.com/597663-saudi-electric-company-wins-488m-haramain-rail-deal


----------



## Muddasir_Awan (Jan 26, 2011)

NYC update


----------



## HiJazzey (Jun 26, 2003)

> *Spain wins Saudi high-speed rail contract*
> 
> (AFP)
> 
> ...


We're getting the ugly duck :no: 
They've somehow managed to conjure a way for the worst HST to win :bash: :bash: 
It's not even an EMU









_We'll have ours in puke green please_


----------



## Sopomon (Oct 2, 2010)

-none-


----------



## XAN_ (Jan 13, 2011)

HiJazzey said:


> We're getting the ugly duck :no:
> They've somehow managed to conjure a way for the worst HST to win :bash: :bash:
> It's not even an EMU


Well, EMU is really obligatory only for speeds beyond 300+.


----------



## gramercy (Dec 25, 2008)

XAN_ said:


> Well, EMU is really obligatory only for speeds beyond 300+.


not really, the TGV Duplex operates at 320 and this the Talgo 350 operates at 330 eventually 350


----------



## Onkel Beto (Feb 14, 2006)

Hi, HiJazzey!

Don´t be angry! 
As for the "ugly" duck, once you get the opportunity to ride the "duck" you´ll realize what excellent and advanced technology your country has purchased. 
These trains are much lighter in weight (aluminium & new materials used in the aerospace industry) than their competitors Siemens, Alstom, etc. , and this makes tracks last much longer in good conditions. You just don´t need such heavy traditional bogies and bodyworks to transport people! It also makes these trains much more energy-efficient. The ride is incredibly smooth as each coach has only one wheel set, with independent wheels which are always kept in a perfect straight line with the rails. And more: the tilting system is "natural", without additional electric motors or complicated electronics. It´s the acme of modern train technology. Unlike Siemens´ICEs, the Talgo-350´s air-conditioning never breaks down and it´s wheels do never fall apart. 
And, in what refers to its looks, there are many people who think it´s beautifully streamlined and, undoubtedly, it has got "character". 
As for the HSL itself, at present nobody builds high-speed lines as well, fast and cheap as Spanish companies.
So, don´t be angry. You´re lucky!

Somebody who knows these trains.

Greetings from Spain.


----------



## HiJazzey (Jun 26, 2003)

Hi Onkel,

I'm sure they are well built, comfortable and reliable. But the point is they are the last of an old generation of locomotive driven HSTs with newer generation of high speed EMUs already out in service. There are many good reasons why an EMU is preferred: lower axle loads, better acceleration, and better performance on inclines. The latter in particular would be useful in the Rabigh-Medina section where you have to climb up the Hijaz mountains from sea level.


----------



## Jay (Oct 7, 2004)

HiJazzey said:


> Hi Onkel,
> 
> I'm sure they are well built, comfortable and reliable. But the point is they are the last of an old generation of locomotive driven HSTs with newer generation of high speed EMUs already out in service. There are many good reasons why an EMU is preferred: lower axle loads, better acceleration, and better performance on inclines. The latter in particular would be useful in the Rabigh-Medina section where you have to climb up the Hijaz mountains from sea level.


It's not the only one, the new korean KTX uses power cars... but yea EMU's are generally better.


----------



## Herbicide (Feb 16, 2006)

Wouldnt the Saudi's have been better with a Duplex for the high volume of passengers they intend to transport. Would Talgo maybe develop a duplex out of this?


----------



## Castor_Game (Feb 24, 2010)

Duplex trains were rejected by the Saudis for their discomfort. Then Almstom offered the classic TGV but modernized. In this situation seems to have preferred the Talgo, more modern and comfortable. Also best suited to carry large numbers of people, have their doors wide to walk, which facilitates the incorporation of mature and elderly people, and also invalid people.


----------



## HiJazzey (Jun 26, 2003)

Herbicide said:


> Wouldnt the Saudi's have been better with a Duplex for the high volume of passengers they intend to transport. Would Talgo maybe develop a duplex out of this?


Nope. You need to look past the whole piety serving the pilgrims shpeel. The Hajj is a once a year event, not year round. The train serves the main population centres of the Hijaz, a catchment area of around 8.5 million. A single deck 8-car train is fine for most of the year. They can double them up to 16 during the Hajj season.


----------



## HiJazzey (Jun 26, 2003)

Castor_Game said:


> Duplex trains were rejected by the Saudis for their discomfort. Then Almstom offered the classic TGV but modernized. In this situation seems to have preferred the Talgo, more modern and comfortable. Also best suited to carry large numbers of people, have their doors wide to walk, which facilitates the incorporation of mature and elderly people, and also invalid people.


I think they offered the AGV in the end. In any case it's done now.


----------



## HiJazzey (Jun 26, 2003)

A little bit on the existing passenger line (Dammam - Riyadh line): The original line was built by Aramco in the late 1940s and was then upgraded in the 1970s. Passenger trains take the following route : Dammam - Abqaiq - Hofuf - Riyadh. Distance is 450km and the journey time is just under 5 hours.

A much needed upgrade is finally under way. The line is getting double tracked, ERTMS signalling system is being installed, and level crossings are being removed. Also, new rolling stock from CAF was ordered. These new 5-car diesel sets can do 200km/h. They're supposed to start arriving this year.

Until then, this is a rare tv report showing the current service:


----------



## nazrey (Sep 12, 2003)

> http://www.railwaygazette.com/uploads/pics/tn_sa-map_makkah-madinah_03.gif





> Haramain High Speed Rail Project (HHR)
> http://www.rayturk.net/?p=23128


*KTMB keen on Saudi high-speed rail project*
By Sharen Kaur Published: 2011/08/09
http://www.btimes.com.my/Current_News/BTIMES/articles/KTMB08/Article/










KUALA LUMPUR: National railway company Keretapi Tanah Melayu Bhd (KTMB) aims to work on *the Haramain high-speed rail project in Saudi Arabia* to gain expertise so it could undertake a similar project here.

The US$6 billion (RM18.06 billion) Haramain project involves a 450km rail link between Makkah (Mecca) and Madinah. The project has commenced and is expected to be completed by end-2012.

KTMB president Dr Aminuddin Adnan said it has sent several staff to the project site to lobby for contracts. 

"We believe with the expertise and exposure gained, we will be ready when Malaysia decides to implement its own high-speed rail project from Kuala Lumpur to Singapore.

"We want to grab the opportunity to work on the high-speed project," Aminuddin said in an interview with Business Times recently in Kuala Lumpur.

The KL-Singapore high-speed rail job, estimated to cost RM8 billion to RM14 billion, will stretch about 400km and reduce travel time to 90 minutes from the current seven hours.

YTL Corp Bhd first mooted the idea to build a high-speed rail in the late 1990s, and then, in 2006. The project was put on hold in April 2008 due to high cost to the government, estimated at about RM8 billion.

By the middle of 2009, YTL again revived talk on the project and expressed hope that the government would relook at the proposal.

In 2010, Malaysia made a proposal to revive the project.

Performance Management and Delivery Unit director Ahmad Suhaili said recently that a pre-feasibility study for the rail project will be concluded on August 19 and submitted to the Cabinet for approval. 

Ahmad said the study would allow the government to decide on the corridors and stations to be located between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore.


----------



## HiJazzey (Jun 26, 2003)

Huhh? They want to be involved in HHR for _practice_ ?!
Okay then.


----------



## Gadiri (Oct 30, 2009)

> *Saudi Arabian train on test at Velim​
> 26 August 2011 *
> 
> 
> ...


http://www.railwaygazette.com/nc/news/single-view/view/saudi-arabian-train-on-test-at-velim.html


----------



## Gadiri (Oct 30, 2009)

HSR - Mecca Metro intermodal station



> *Makkah metro expansion plan​
> 11 August 2011 *
> 
> 
> ...


http://www.railwaygazette.com/nc/news/single-view/view/makkah-metro-expansion-plan.html


----------



## Gadiri (Oct 30, 2009)

> *TRAINS FOR SAUDI RAILWAYS (SRO)​*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://www.caf.es/ingles/productos/proyecto.php?cod=5&id=623&sec=desc&pais=27





> Basic details:•Carbody length (mm): *TC(25.960) | T1-T2-T3-T4(25.000) | PC(21.120)*
> •Carbody width (mm): 3048
> •Doors clearance (mm): 1000
> •Height of floor (mm): 1150
> ...


http://www.caf.es/ingles/productos/proyecto.php?cod=5&id=623&sec=datos&pais=27



> Performance:•*Total places: 288 (First Class: 94 - Second Class: 192 - PRM: 2)*


http://www.caf.es/ingles/productos/proyecto.php?cod=5&id=623&sec=prest&pais=27



> Equipment:•PMR Ramps (disabled persons): 2


http://www.caf.es/ingles/productos/proyecto.php?cod=5&id=623&sec=equip&pais=27


----------



## Gadiri (Oct 30, 2009)

> *TRAINS FOR SAUDI RAILWAYS (SRO)​*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://www.caf.es/ingles/productos/proyecto.php?cod=5&id=623&sec=desc&pais=27





> Basic details:•Carbody length (mm): *TC(25.960) | T1-T2-T3-T4(25.000) | PC(21.120)*
> •Carbody width (mm): 3048
> •Doors clearance (mm): 1000
> •Height of floor (mm): 1150
> ...


http://www.caf.es/ingles/productos/proyecto.php?cod=5&id=623&sec=datos&pais=27



> Performance:•*Total places: 288 (First Class: 94 - Second Class: 192 - PRM: 2)*


http://www.caf.es/ingles/productos/proyecto.php?cod=5&id=623&sec=prest&pais=27



> Equipment:•PMR Ramps (disabled persons): 2


http://www.caf.es/ingles/productos/proyecto.php?cod=5&id=623&sec=equip&pais=27


----------



## Gadiri (Oct 30, 2009)

From [Czech Republic] Railways  by Reichengerger


----------



## hakz2007 (Jul 1, 2007)

*Cabinet flags off east-west railway*


> JEDDAH: The Council of Ministers on Monday took a landmark decision to implement a land bridge project that would link the Kingdom’s east with its west with a railway line, bringing about a dramatic change in the region’s transport system.
> 
> The project, which will be financed by the state-owned Public Investment Fund, involves the construction of 950 km of a new line between Riyadh and Jeddah and another 115 km track between Dammam and Jubail and expansion of the current Riyadh-Dammam Railway.
> 
> ...


More: http://arabnews.com/saudiarabia/article515562.ece


----------



## solchante (Jan 6, 2010)

images about the new infraestructure (in spanish)


----------



## el palmesano (May 27, 2006)

^^ seems great!


----------



## el palmesano (May 27, 2006)




----------



## CityDreamer (Dec 9, 2011)

^^
Great video,, thanks for sharing!


----------



## el palmesano (May 27, 2006)

your welcome!


----------



## Gadiri (Oct 30, 2009)

> *CAF signs Saudi North-South Railway passenger train contract​
> 16 March 2012 *
> 
> 
> ...


http://www.railwaygazette.com/nc/ne...h-south-railway-passenger-train-contract.html


----------



## el palmesano (May 27, 2006)

^^ great news!!


----------



## trainrover (May 6, 2006)

_"...paying especial attention to the winds and sands. ..._​
Suckers' falling for that pitching corporate vacuousness transferred onto video no longer amazes me :hahano:


----------



## Gadiri (Oct 30, 2009)

> *Saudi Landbridge consultancy contract awarded​*
> 10 January 2013
> 
> 
> ...


http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...-landbridge-consultancy-contract-awarded.html


----------



## Gadiri (Oct 30, 2009)

*North-South railway*



http://www.systra.com/IMG/jpg/north_south_railway_arabie_saoudite_systra_dans_le_monde.jpg


----------



## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)




----------



## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)




----------



## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)




----------



## riles28 (Jul 10, 2008)

Any updates for Push pull train that they ordered fro CAF


----------



## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

^^

this train?


----------



## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

north south railway project


-map












- new Riyadh railway station .. near from king khalid international airport (north riyadh city)













































-system









-train


----------



## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

^^Will the train pictured above also be manufactured by Talgo? Is Talgo responsible for all of Saudi Arabia's high speed trains?


----------



## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

^^

Talgo responsible only for al haramain high speed trains























http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haramain_High_Speed_Rail_Project




there is other new high speed project from riyadh city to Makkah (Land bridge project) .. but still dont know will be spain high speed train or .. ..still dont know

I prefer the Spanish trains.. like (talgo 350) (ave 103)


----------



## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

al haramain high speed 


al madinnah station


----------



## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

train derailment (yesterday)


----------



## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

^^

other train in one day


----------



## nazrey (Sep 12, 2003)

*Saudis plan US$45b rail networks*
Published: 2013/06/11
http://www.btimes.com.my/Current_Ne...130611154429/Article/index_html#ixzz2VyfNLZAd

RIYADH: Saudi Arabia is planning to invest US$45 billion to establish 7,000 km rail networks, Xinhua news agency reported citing a local news report. 

The Al Sharq Al Awsat newspaper said according to experts, the number of railway passengers is expected to increase to 3.4 million by 2014. 

Engineer Mohammed Abdulraheem said the rail networks will be provided with communication technology such as 4G to enable travellers to use their mobile phones and laptops. 

The planned development is part of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC)'s railway project that will link all Gulf countries and lines with the national transportation of those countries. -- BERNAMA


----------



## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

North - South rail (CAF) SAR Train


----------



## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

*Al Haramain Talgo 350 design*

spanish 


*El diseño de la obra del AVE Medina-La Meca y el material rodante se ajustan a los plazos*
http://treneando.com/2013/07/03/el-...dina-la-meca-y-el-material-rodante-en-plazos/


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## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

*Al Haramain Jeddah station*

Al Haramain Jeddah station progress by Roukaya19



Roukaya19 said:


> Jeddah station progress
> 
> 29 June 2013
> 
> ...


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## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

*Al Haramain Madinah station Roof*

Madinah station progress 




Roukaya19 said:


> Madinah station progress
> 
> The Roof
> 
> 15 June 2013


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

Are those solar panels or just tiles on the roof? A train station seems like a great place for solar power generation.


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## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

aquaticko said:


> Are those solar panels or just tiles on the roof? A train station seems like a great place for solar power generation.


yea.. i think they put solar panels. ^^


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## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

*Madinah Haramain station*

Madinah Haramain station

27 June 2013​










































thx Roukaya19


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## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

Accident with loader (yesterday)hno:












Accident with camel :bash:












hno:


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## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

*Rail freight transport*

Goods train


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## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

*Rabig (KAEC) station*

New update 

*Rabig (KAEC) station

Haramain high speed rail..
*


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## Sopomon (Oct 2, 2010)

Given all of your links to various Dubai related sites, one would assume that you would have the knowledge that Dubai is in the United Arab Emirates, not Saudi Arabia. I guess I had assumed wrong.


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## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

Sopomon said:


> Given all of your links to various Dubai related sites, one would assume that you would have the knowledge that Dubai is in the United Arab Emirates, not Saudi Arabia. I guess I had assumed wrong.


^^
i think he mean GCC states ..


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## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

*Haramain High Speed rail track*


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## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

*Dammam - Riyadh caf train*


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## Gadiri (Oct 30, 2009)

압둘라-爱- LOVE;105460462 said:


> Accident with loader (yesterday)hno:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





압둘라-爱- LOVE;104073368 said:


> train derailment (yesterday)





압둘라-爱- LOVE;104086953 said:


> ^^
> 
> other train in one day


How many accidents occured on North/South railway ?


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## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

Gadiri said:


> How many accidents occured on North/South railway ?


this trains for dammam - riyadh railway

North/south (Passenger train) be operational by next year 2014


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## trainrover (May 6, 2006)

Today's








_Saudi Railway accidents under urgent study_​


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## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

dimlys1994 said:


> ^^Thanks


you are welcome


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## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

*By Roukaya19*
Madinah Haramain Station

Roof - 30 October 2013



















8 November 2013
















*this land look like mars planet except sky! *:lol:












* mars planet land (Taken by NASA-Curiosity rover 2012 )*










​


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## Mr_Dru (Dec 15, 2008)

Nice pictures and nice to see SA has a HSR. I wonder do the high-speed trains also get special wagons for ladies only?


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## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

Mr_Dru said:


> Nice pictures and nice to see SA has a HSR. I wonder do the high-speed trains also get special wagons for ladies only?


no ~ its mix :lol:




Rayancito said:


> ^^As informed by Gusiluz and according to the Spanish railway journal "Via Libre" (in paper, not online) the configuration of the Meca Median trainsets is the following:
> 
> Every train set has 13 passenger cars, with a total capacity of 417 passenger, of which 73% in economy class (304) and 27% in business class (113).


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

Looking on the station at Mecca, I wonder - is that possible in future to create runthrough track, in the event of HSR extension?


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## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

dimlys1994 said:


> Looking on the station at Mecca, I wonder - is that possible in future to create runthrough track, in the event of HSR extension?



^^
yes~ 

Mecca station is the last station for the Haramain rail~

in future landbridge high speed rail project between riyadh and jeddah~

it's will be connect to jeddah haramain station ~ and jeddah station will be final destination for landbridge railway ~


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

Landbridge is in long-term persepective, if rideship will satisfy costs. But if it will be succesfull, there will be 2 or 4 tracks?


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## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

of course it will be successful .But i guess there will be double tracks ~


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## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

dimlys1994 said:


> I remember that during the construction of Mecca Metro, according to Al Jazeera, the constructors used Chinese workers to build the line. Is that true or not?


new mecca metro project .. phase 1 section 1 B line will be connect with al haramain mecca station ..

following :


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## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

*Existing rail
*


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...idge-supervision-prequalification-begins.html
> 
> *Saudi Landbridge supervision prequalification begins*
> 09 Jun 2014
> ...


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...ailway-training-centre-opens.html?channel=542
> 
> *Saudi railway training centre opens*
> Tuesday, July 01, 2014
> ...


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## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

More new trains for saudi arabia ( Riyadh - Dammam line)


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## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)




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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...-signs-dammam-riyadh-upgrading-contracts.html
> 
> *SRO signs Dammam – Riyadh upgrading contracts*
> 27 Aug 2014
> ...


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## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

*North South railway project will done in 2015 *

200 km/h train .


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## Gusiluz (Apr 4, 2013)

^^ Are CAF trains, 1 diesel engine and five trailers to 200 km / h, with 457 seats, 280 meters and a cost of 21.21 M €. In 2015 they will overnight services with seats and litters between Riyadh and Al Hadithah (Jordanian border). 

A greeting
..............................
Son trenes de CAF, 1 motor diesel y 5 remolques, para 200 km/h, con 457 plazas, 280 metros y un coste de 21.21 M €. En 2015 harán servicios nocturnos con asientos y literas entre Riad y Al Hadithah (frontera con Jordania).

Un saludo


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## Gusiluz (Apr 4, 2013)

압둘라-爱- LOVE;116567363 said:


> More new trains for saudi arabia ( Riyadh - Dammam line)


These, however are the 4 new trains for SRO. Similar (in message # 190 you can see the differences) that are already in service on the Riyadh-Dammam (430 km) line, are formed for 1 diesel engine and 5 cars in push-pull to 180 km / h, with 288 seats, 152.22 meters. 
The first 8 trains (2012-13), with maintenance for 4 years cost 13,13 M € each. They ERTMS. 

I forgot to say that trains for SAR (the previous post) will bring wagons for cars

A greeting
....................................................
Estos, en cambio son los 4 nuevos trenes para SRO. Similares (en el mensaje #190 se pueden ver las diferencias) a los que ya se encuentran en servicio en la línea Riad-Dammam (430 km), están formados por 1 motor diesel y 5 coches en push-pull para 180 km/h, 288 plazas, 152.22 metros.
Los primeros 8 trenes (2012/13), con mantenimiento durante 4 años, costaron 13,13 M € cada uno. Tienen ERTMS.
Se me olvidó decir que los trenes para SAR (los del post anterior) llevarán vagones porta-autos
Un saludo


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...-link-study-nears-completion.html?channel=535
> 
> *Bahrain - Saudi rail link study nears completion*
> Friday, January 16, 2015
> ...


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## 압둘라-爱- LOVE (May 17, 2012)

*New North-South CAF train 
*













*Stations*



GoRiyadhGo said:


> محطة القصيم





khaled_sf said:


> صور لمحطة ركاب الرياض
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...rvice-to-start-in-early-2017.html?channel=539
> 
> *SAR passenger service to start in early 2017*
> Monday, October 24, 2016
> ...


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## foxmulder (Dec 1, 2007)

The most profitable deal CAF has ever had, I bet


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Rail Journal

http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...ssenger-services-from-riyadh.html?channel=539

*SAR starts first passenger services from Riyadh*
Monday, February 27, 2017










_SAUDI Railway Company (SAR) inaugurated its first passenger services on February 26 on the Riyadh - Al Qassim section of the North-South Railway with an intermediate stop at Majmaah_

SAR is operating what it describes as an Exhibition Service until April 1 with a flat fare of Riyals 40 ($US 10.67) for adults, Riyals 20 for children and Riyals 4 for infants. One round trip is being operated five days per week between Thursdays and Mondays. The northbound train departs Riyadh at 10.00 and arrives at Al Qassim at 12.31, returning at 15.00 with the same 2h 31min journey time

...


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## Haifon (May 7, 2017)




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## fusfus (Apr 17, 2015)

As of 23 Nov. (6 days) services will begin from Riyadh to Ha'il starting at 120 Riyals (32.00 USD)


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## K_ (Jan 5, 2010)

I noticed that in Riyadh the North - South line has a separate station from the line to Damman, and that the two lines aren't even connected. Why is that?


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## Coccodrillo (Sep 30, 2005)

They are also operated by two different companies, but both state owned. Again, I don't understand why.


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## K_ (Jan 5, 2010)

Coccodrillo said:


> They are also operated by two different companies, but both state owned. Again, I don't understand why.


I can understand different companies (even if both state owned, that is not unusual). But having two stations, each for only a handful of trains?


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## Farro (Oct 29, 2016)

K_ said:


> I can understand different companies (even if both state owned, that is not unusual). But having two stations, each for only a handful of trains?



Apparently the southern branch is partially freight-only and with a different gauge:


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## Coccodrillo (Sep 30, 2005)

They are both standard gauge, but according to OpenStreetMap there is no track link, not even outside Riyadh. It doesn't make sense.


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## Gusiluz (Apr 4, 2013)

^^ In Riyadh there are two stations of two different state companies, and each one has its website and its mobile application. Haramain HSR has another website that only works from within Saudi Arabia.

Passengers can only travel on *SAR trains* from Riyadh to four stations to Al-Qurrayat (Riyadh-Qurayyat Line, near the border with Jordan) along the North-South Railway Line which until 2017 only transported goods: phosphates and bauxite, mainly. SAR website.
The SRO line to King Abdul Aziz Port (dark red, open in the 1950s) is only for freight traffic and ends at the Riyadh Dry Port. *SRO Dammam-Riyadh Line* (light red, since 2012) does have passenger traffic with CAF trains.

Until June 2016 the lines were built and managed by one of the two state companies: SAR (Saudi Railway Company, formed for the North South Railway Line and for the stagnant 950 km Landbridge railway project linking Riyadh and Jeddah on the coast of Red Sea) and SRO (Saudi Railways Organization), which operates the Riyadh-Dammam railway and was responsible for the construction of the Haramain high-speed line linking Mecca, Jeddah and Medina, and the Saudi part of the Gulf Railway planned for 2177 kilometers).

After a government reshuffle the new minister decided that SAR will be responsible for all new line construction projects.
If we take into account that the new minister Sulaiman bin Abdullah Al-Hamdan was appointed director of SAR, and the outgoing minister (Rumaih Mohammed Al-Rumaih) director of SRO.
We already know the future that awaits each of those organizations.

The trains for the Haramain HSR were called Talgo 350 SRO and that logo (in addition to Haramain logo) was in the stations until 2017 when I started seeing SAR logo at the stations.

I think there are only Spanish passenger trains in KSA: Talgo for the Haramain HSR and three CAF series (two for SAR and one for SRO). Here we talk about the latter in Spanish:


Gusiluz said:


> Saudi to open 2,750km Riyadh-Gurayat rail line in Dec
> 
> 
> La línea desde Riad hasta Al-Qurrayat tiene 1.242 km, así que la media sería de 155 km/h... si se cumpliese. Los trenes de Riad hasta Qassim (publicitados en solo dos horas) tardan en realidad 2 h 26 m desde febrero de este año. El servicio diurno se extenderá hacia Hail.
> ...


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## FazilLanka (Jan 7, 2009)

This train looks so cool and hopefully more trains like this will be connecting many cities through out the kingdom of Saudi Arabia. It would be nice if they can bring HSRs to major cities.


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## [email protected] (Jul 25, 2010)




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## VITORIA MAN (Jan 31, 2013)

Del


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## jonasry (Feb 6, 2011)

Saudi Arabia has started services between Riydah and the border city of Al Qurayyat, next to Jordan! This vital link means it should be possible to travel overland quite comfortably between Amman - Riydah and onto the Gulf states. Hopefully there will be a trip report soon.

News article: Saudi Railways starts online ticket booking to Al-Qurayyat


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## lechevallierpatrick (Nov 22, 2012)

How long will it take (travel time) and how many trains a day will there be?


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## jonasry (Feb 6, 2011)

lechevallierpatrick said:


> How long will it take (travel time) and how many trains a day will there be?


It's an overnight train, taking about 10 hours. Saudi Arabia Railways actually has a really nice website, with timetables and online tickets. As of now there's just one departure per week in each direction. No idea why they're running on such an erratic schedule.


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## BHT (Jan 27, 2017)

*Saudi Arabia’s Al-'Ula to build 50-kilometre tram network across historic city *

https://arabianbusiness.com/industries/transport/saudi-arabias-alula-to-build-50-kilometre-tram-network-across-historic-city


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## nazrey (Sep 12, 2003)

*SAR*
Al Qasim Station


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## nazrey (Sep 12, 2003)

*SRO - 180 km/h*
Dammam Station

Train to Riyadh at Dammam train station by Timon91, on Flickr

Dammam train station by Timon91, on Flickr
Dammam train station by Timon91, on Flickr
Dammam train station by Timon91, on Flickr
Train to Riyadh at Dammam train station by Timon91, on Flickr


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

* SAR Trains Carry over 2.3 Million Passengers, 6.75 Million Tons of Goods in First Half of 2022 *
_Excerpt_ 

Riyadh, August 9, 2022, SPA -- The Saudi Railway Company (SAR) today announced its top operational results related to passenger and cargo trains for the first half of 2022.

The total number of passengers that were transported during the first half of 2022 exceeded 2.3 million through the North, East and Haramain High Speed Rail networks, marking an increase rate of 121% compared with the corresponding period of 2021, while more than 6.75 million tons of goods were transported, up by 24%, contributing to reducing the number of trucks on roads by more than 871,000 vehicles, according to the operational performance report issued by SAR.

SAR CEO Dr. Bashar Al-Malik said that the operations for the first half of 2022 reflect the increasing growth volume witnessed by the passenger and freight trains for their being an alternative with high levels of quality and credibility to transport passengers and merchandise among Saudi cities in a way that contributes to enhancing social and economic development tracks that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is witnessing.

More : https://www.spa.gov.sa/viewfullstory.php?lang=en&newsid=2375559


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