# LED lighting



## Total (Mar 12, 2009)

I need some help with research. I checked these forums for existing information but I couldnt find any information about LED street lighting on highways and Autobahns. Maybe you can help me if you have correct information if somewhere exists >currently< LED street lighting. I usually find informations about "incoming" projects and pictures of smaller roads and towns lighted with LED street lighting. Or it is some stretch of road in China with lots of lanes but no cars and pictures like that.

If you have picture, even better, post it 

I also have heard that Philips put lighting on Netherland highway but currently says "more information on that soon" so it seems to me it is another "incoming" project but nothing that actually is in operation.

Thanks in forward!


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## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

From the Netherlands' motorway thread.


ChrisZwolle said:


> The A44 motorway is the first in the world to have LED lighting, according to Rijkswaterstaat.


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## Ingenioren (Jan 18, 2008)

A bit different but this is from Norway (E6):


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## Josh (May 30, 2004)

Led lights are currently being tested on the N63 road in Wallonia (Belgium).


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## Fargo Wolf (Oct 23, 2009)

Are you asking about street lights, traffic lights or LED studs used for pavement marking?

Where I am (Kamloops, BC, Canada), LEDs are used predominantly in traffic signals. At this point it's just the red and turn arrow (which starts off green, then goes amber) on combined signals (Red, yellow, green and turn arrow). On separate turn signals, just the arrow is LED and maybe the red light. On all others, it's just the red light that is LED.

The only other place LEDs are used, is on a stretch of Mission Flats Road where a concrete kerb was installed several years ago. It has amber LED studs on it. A new street that was completed in late 2009 has what appears to be LED streetlights, but I think regular, high intensity bulbs are being used instead.

The biggest barrier to LEDs being used here is A: Cost. They are extremely expensive to install, though they rapidly pay for themselves in terms of much lower operational costs. B: City Council is nothing but Communist f**kwads. :bash:


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## keber (Nov 8, 2006)

While LEDs look sexy, I don't like the brightness and the color of the light they emit.
We have some newly installed on few crossings, now even on bridge over Ljubljanica on A1.

Also it is quite wrong thinking, that LEDs need much less energy than conventional lamps. That is maybe true if comparing to old mercury lamps, but new high pressure sodium lamps use more or less the same amount of energy for given light (lumen/watt), are much cheaper and their light is much more pleasant to the eye.

LED markers (white or red, also other colors) are quite commons sight in European tunnels for about 10, maybe 15 years.


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## mgk920 (Apr 21, 2007)

There are several recently-installed areas of LED street lighting here in Appleton, WI.

Mike


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## Fargo Wolf (Oct 23, 2009)

I'll take the LEDs Keber. I prefer the extra brightness, as it makes it easier to see people. In fact, the City of Kamloops has installed white street lights at some intersections now and, in the City of Surrey (BC, Canada), White street lights have been used along a stretch of 99A, near the King George SkyTrain station.


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## Atmosphere (Mar 15, 2009)

^^ On a side note, there was a study that said that people are feeling much safer in streets with white light. Because you can see better and sharper than with the traditional orange lights. But I agree that white leds looks unpleasant, cold and 'formal'


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## JloKyM (Mar 3, 2007)

Varna, Bulgaria


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## xrtn2 (Jan 12, 2011)

LED in Brazil


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## Fargo Wolf (Oct 23, 2009)

Am definitely liking the white LED lighting.  :cheers:


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

My university has a lot of LED lights for the sidewalks and a few sections of the streets have LED streetlights. Most of the orange sodium lights are gone, but there are still a few around.


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## Total (Mar 12, 2009)

Thanks to all! But keep the posts coming 

I am asking mainly for street lamps, since as I understand current LED technology level, it is really the BEST technology for low power markers but high price and really at best equal levels of lm/watt as HPS (high pressure sodium) that are currently on the market (not in laboratory) make LED street lights still mostly just prestige choice and not economical one. IMHO


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## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

I personally prefer the white light of LED lamps because it doesn't distort colours they way HPS lights do - just look at the colour of grass in the photo from ChrisZwolle's post. For me that distortion is quite tiring, especially because I don't see that well in the dark(genetics, what can you do...)


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

^^ As far as I know, there are no physical reasons for the LED lights to be white... they could also mimic the sodium lights' colour.


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## keber (Nov 8, 2006)

g.spinoza said:


> ^^ As far as I know, there are no physical reasons for the LED lights to be white... they could also mimic the sodium lights' colour.


There is a cost reason. Warm light LEDs, which are more pleasant to the eye (their light is similar to incandescent bulbs) are for now much more expensive for the same lumen/watt ratio.


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

There have been studies that showed that people feel safer with white lighting like LEDs provide than the orange sodium lights. (Plus the sodium lights are just ugly)


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## Ekumenopolis (Feb 2, 2005)

Rebasepoiss said:


> From the Netherlands' motorway thread.


I think it's about time to start changing every lights in EU highways, roads and even cities. That orange lighting is completely awful.


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## ScraperDude (Sep 15, 2002)

Not only is the orange lighting ugly, the light polllution alone is an even better reason for switching to LEDs. I'm not sure how it is in Europe but here in the US you can tell when you are driving in the midwest/west when you are approaching a big city. The sky slowly glows orange for 40 miles or more from the city center and the stars slowly disappear as you grow closer. I'm all for LEDS. The sooner the better for us all.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

City light pollution is nothing compared to greenhouse light pollution on cloudy nights.


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## TheCat (Apr 21, 2006)

I think this argument is somewhat similar to the one of using halogen vs. HID (high intensity discharge) lamps for cars' headlights.

HID have many advantages (I can attest to that personally - the HIDs on my car make it much more comfortable to drive at night than the halogen lamps on my parents' car), but people complain that they produce too much glare with oncoming traffic (which is also true). Apparently part of the reason for this glare is not just their higher brightness, but the fact that the human eye is more sensitive to the HID wavelengths, which resemble daylight.

I don't think we have any LED streetlighting in the Toronto area so I can't comment on it.


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## keber (Nov 8, 2006)

ChrisZwolle said:


> City light pollution is nothing compared to greenhouse light pollution on cloudy nights.


Greenhouse light pollution?


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## Fargo Wolf (Oct 23, 2009)

Victorinus said:


> *Vlaketunnel in The Netherlands is the first 100% LED tunnel of the world.*


Nice and bright.  :cheers:


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

TheCat said:


> I think this argument is somewhat similar to the one of using halogen vs. HID (high intensity discharge) lamps for cars' headlights.
> 
> HID have many advantages (I can attest to that personally - the HIDs on my car make it much more comfortable to drive at night than the halogen lamps on my parents' car), but people complain that they produce too much glare with oncoming traffic (which is also true). Apparently part of the reason for this glare is not just their higher brightness, but the fact that the human eye is more sensitive to the HID wavelengths, which resemble daylight.


I really hate glare from cars' headlights, but from my experience that mostly comes from ones with the projector-style lens, the older shiny reflector type is much better, regardless of whether they're HID or halogen. (My uncle's Prius has HID headlights with the older reflector thing behind it to put the light where it belongs) And you may say that the HID headlights are designed to keep glare out of peoples' eyes but most of the time that doesn't work for me and I'm blinded anyway. I'd be quite glad to see projector headlights banned. They may help the driver of the car using those headlights see what's in front of them, but nothing in front of them will be able to see anything at all. (Or at least I can't.) I'm quite glad to stick with my old-fashioned halogen bulb with the shiny reflector, but the outer lens does kinda need to be polished...

The ancient sealed-beam headlights are, for me, the absolute best as far as limiting glare goes, but they also severely limit the car's aesthetics so I don't mind newer "multiple parts with separate bulb" headlights.


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## Fargo Wolf (Oct 23, 2009)

TheCat said:


> I think this argument is somewhat similar to the one of using halogen vs. HID (high intensity discharge) lamps for cars' headlights.


Yeah, those are bright. The newer City busses and RCMP vehicles have them. Low (dipped) beam, is high beam intensity. A friend of mine has HID on all her vehicles. I'm planning on getting them for my truck... If I ever get the money. $300 PER headlight. Plus tax.



keber said:


> Greenhouse light pollution?


Some greenhouses use powerful floodlights to simulate daylight. Basically they are stadium lights, in terms of brightness. Because a greenhouse is translucent, there is an unreal amount of light pollution.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

delete


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## Fender56 (Feb 22, 2009)

Here in Esbjerg Denmark, we are presently testing some LED streetlamps from Maalstrom. Before and after pictures below.:



















And a closeup of the Maalstrom LED light fixture.:


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

I'm happy not to have such an LED right by my house. Way too much light. Maybe people don't understand the concept of darkness. LED's should be placed along major trafficked roads, not residential streets...


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## ABC LV (Aug 27, 2008)

Fender56 said:


>


I wouldn't want to live in house near such streetlight.


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## Fargo Wolf (Oct 23, 2009)

ABC LV said:


> I wouldn't want to live in house near such streetlight.


That's what curtains/blinds are for. :tongue3: Personally, I'll take the brightness. At least that way, I can see the dumb sh*ts who's have to wear dark clothing and no reflective gear.


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

Maxx☢Power;74579573 said:


> I'm guessing the brightness has been exaggerated a little with long exposure..


Very likely. Digital cameras can't take good pictures at night with an exposure of less than a second.


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## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

You have to shoot both "before" and "after" photos with the same exposure, ISO, aperture and white balance to get an accurate result.



nerdly_dood said:


> Digital cameras can't take good pictures at night with an exposure of less than a second.


Not necessarily but it does require high-end equipment.


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## mgk920 (Apr 21, 2007)

^^
One advantage that I do note in that fixture design is that due to the extreme directionality of individual LED 'pixels', those 'pixels' can be rearranged as necessary to cut glare onto adjoining properties, focusing that light to where it is needed the most.

Mike


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## Gareth (Apr 27, 2004)

Although it could be the camera, it's equally possible that the bulb is overated. My city has been recently replacing low pressure sodium with metal halide on residental roads and it floods the street; complete overkill.


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## Fender56 (Feb 22, 2009)

LED lighting now also on the Danish motorway system.:

http://elektronikbranchen.dk/nyhed/foerste-led-belysning-paa-vej-til-danske-motorveje

The need for lightfixtures is reduced to the half, and energy consumption by 60%. Normally two rows of lightfixtures are needed, but with these new LED lamps one row will do. Production Philips in Denmark.


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## ScraperDude (Sep 15, 2002)

Fender56 said:


> Here in Esbjerg Denmark, we are presently testing some LED streetlamps from Maalstrom. Before and after pictures below.:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm curious, do these at least have the option to dim?

Some cities in the U.S. are talking about LED streetlights tied into a "smart" system that are dim in the evening and increase brightness as the sun sets into the night. 
Also I read an article (can't remember when and where) about LED streetlights that can flash and light up red and/or blue to help emergency responders locate the vicinity of a property easier at night. 
Are any other countries currently utilizing this?


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## gattone (Dec 20, 2008)

ScraperDude said:


> Also I read an article (can't remember when and where) about LED streetlights that can flash and light up red and/or blue to help emergency responders locate the vicinity of a property easier at night.


A simple GPS system in the emergency vehicle seems simpler and much easier to implement than this proposal.


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## Ingenioren (Jan 18, 2008)

ScraperDude said:


> Some cities in the U.S. are talking about LED streetlights tied into a "smart" system that are dim in the evening and increase brightness as the sun sets into the night.


We have this project in Oslo too. And for low-trafic tunnels the lights are cut completly if there are no cars during the night.


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

mgk920 said:


> extreme directionality of individual LED 'pixels'


Modern third-generation LEDs have very wide-angle visibility, but just like normal incandescent or halogen lights, they've got to have some apparatus to put the light where it's most wanted for best effect, usually a lens to concentrate the light into a narrow, intense beam of light, or a reflector to spread it out. Second-generation LEDs are very rare because third-gen ones came out very soon after 2g was introduced. Some LED products are advertised as using 4th or 5th-generation LEDs, but third-gen ones are most common, and IMO plenty bright enough.

First-gen LEDs, often referred to as 5mm LEDs, must be arranged so densely and in such a large quantity for proper light output that if anything was used to disperse or concentrate the light other than the integral 5mm housing, they'd be too dim to be worth using.


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## Rob73 (Jun 18, 2014)

keber said:


> It's not that long (about 350 m I suppose). Imagine having that in 5+ km long double tube tunnels, cost would be enormous.


If it's anything like ships lighting (what I do for a living) the cost would be covered in about 18 months. The big savings are energy and maintenance, a typical industrial LED will have a working life from 50-100,000 hours L70. Re-lamping in tunnels often requires shutting down the tunnel.


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## keber (Nov 8, 2006)

Rob73 said:


> This is incorrect


It was correct almost 5 years ago, when I wrote the original post. 
I agree, LED lights made huge progress recently and they are installed almost everywhere now. Even my apartment has exclusively LED lightning.


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## Blackraven (Jan 19, 2006)

LED lighting is the future.

Within the next few years, old school halogen and mercury lights will be history (similar to what is happening with how incandescent lights were replaced by fluorescent bulbs......which are being replaced with LED bulbs)


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## Megasky (Oct 26, 2015)

Does your city has solar-powered LED lights? If yes, are they reliable?
Which one would you prefer?


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