# Is Lisbon the new "Barcelona" of Europe?



## TeKnO_Lx (Oct 19, 2004)

Lisbon, one of most underated european capitals, is slowly becoming the new "Barcelona" of Europe.
After winning several Tourism Awards (lately including Best "European Destination" in 2013), the CNN defines the city as the "coolest" of Europe, beating Madrid´s nightlife and probably matching Barcelona, Berlin or Amsterdam as the new "hipster city" in Europe, capable of attracting young europeans or expats interested in alternative, criative and tolerant ways of life.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/25/travel/lisbon-coolest-city/

(CNN) -- What makes a city "cool"?

If it means being loaded with atmosphere, charm, great food and nightlife, yet ignored by the bulk of travelers, then Lisbon deserves consideration as Europe's coolest capital.










Here's why.

*1. Nightlife that can outlast Madrid's*
If you think Madrid stays out late, try a night out in Lisbon.








The city is less about heaving clubs and more about a roving nocturnal flow that ends (maybe) when dawn rises over the Tagus River.
The main action is in the Bairro Alto, where more than 250 appealing bars line a web of streets between graffiti-plastered walls.
Next is the riverfront, in the hip neighborhood around Cais do Sodré railway station.
Typical of the offbeat flavor here is the converted brothel Pensão Amor (Rua do Alecrim 19, +351 21 314 3399) where ace cocktails accompany erotica and DJ sets.
Capping a Lisbon night are pre-dawn traffic jams at Santa Apolonia docks -- they're created by the popularity of Lux, the king of Lisbon superclubs (Cais da Pedra +351 21 882 0890).

*2. Experimental cuisine*
Once known largely for bacalhau (dried cod), quaint old coffee houses and louche taverns, the Portuguese capital now claims a range of restaurants.
Seafood remains a staple, but the trend is for modern, sophisticated and affordable.
A high bar is set by wunderkind chef José Avillez at his Michelin-starred Belcanto (Largo de Sao Carlos 10, +351 21 342 0607) or his more casual bistro Cantinho (Rua dos Duques de Bragança 7, +351 211 992369).
Avant-garde European and Portuguese cuisine describes Avillez's menu, which stretches from sea bass with seaweed to lamb with vegetable puree.
Further down the scale, Lisbonites love juicy bifanas (pork buns) in backstreet eateries.
No traveler to Lisbon should miss the famed egg tarts (pasteis de nata).
The little bundles of caramel-y custard in chewy pastry are eaten in style at the original tiled café, Antiga Confeitaria de Belem (Rua Belém 84-92, +351 21 363 7423).









*3. Irony*
You'd think Lisbonites would brag about their achievements -- first global empire, world's best custard tarts, sea bass with seaweed that actually tastes great.
On the contrary, along with the rest of the nation, they excel in that ages old literary device/defense mechanism: irony.
As Portuguese writer Fernando Pessoa once eloquently summed up the prevailing national outlook: "I'd woken up early, and took a long time getting ready to exist."
That old entertaining melancholy has resurfaced with the austerity of recent years, helping Lisbonites remain (almost) content and always witty, even in tough times.










*4. Beaches and castles*
Lisbon is a place to inhale salty Atlantic air, sunbathe and hit the waves.
Dolphins surf and ferries ply the River Tagus.
Half an hour away by train are the beaches and ornate casino of Estoril.
A bit further, Cascais is for eaters -- lots of grilled fish and seafood stews served in domed cataplana dishes.
The other big day trip is to Sintra. Forty minutes from Lisbon's main station (Rossio), it's a time-warp town, located in lush, wooded hills peppered with whimsical palaces and mansions that epitomize centuries of aristocratic opulence.









*5. Fabulous design*
Wherever you look in Lisbon, sharp contemporary design is a hallmark.
Stylish leather goods, bold wine labels, interiors combining vintage with the latest designer pieces, spectacular buildings -- this is a city that loves to look good.
Pritzker-prize winning architect Alvaro Siza Vieira set the modernist tone with his gravity-defying pavilion for Expo 98.
Lisbonites gather to appreciate good design at MUDE (Rua Augusta 24, +351 21 888 6117), their mutant fashion and design museum, where austere low-tech blends with baroque flounces.


















*6. Big art*
Large European capitals such as London, Paris, Berlin and Madrid may have blockbuster art collections, but Lisbon's half million inhabitants have access to their own rare panoply.
The classic is the Gulbenkian Foundation (Av. de Berna 45A, +351 21 782 3000), where superlative Oriental and Western art occupies an airy 1960s building and landscaped gardens.
In Bélem, the Museu Berardo (Praça do Império, +351 21 361 2878) focuses on big names of 20th- and 21st-century art, from Picasso to Jeff Koons.
Museu de Arte Antiga (Portuguese site only; Rua Janelas Verdes, +351 21 391 2800) is a 17th-century mansion packed with 500 years of artwork that reflects Portugal's globetrotting history.
Lisbon's latest exclusive is the impressive Museu do Oriente (Avenida de Brasília, Doca de Alcântara, +351 21 358 5244), a superbly converted salt cod warehouse full of Asian exhibits where you can book a nighttime visit followed by dinner in the riverfront restaurant.









*7. Fascinating streets*
There's no getting bored wandering in Lisbon, thanks to the intricately patterned cobblestones under your feet -- a civic point of pride that blossomed after Lisbon's 1755 earthquake and continues today.
Even Lisbon's walls demand attention, thanks to an obsession with azulejos (ceramic tiles).
Top examples are found at the Museu Nacional do Azulejo (Rua da Madre de Deus 4, +351 218 100 340), while the peeling façades of the Alfama and Mouraria districts show dozens of variations.


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## Mr Bricks (May 6, 2005)

Lisbon is one of my favourite European cities! I hope it never becomes a tourist hell hole like Barcelona.


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## AmoreUrbs (Mar 6, 2013)

Mr Bricks said:


> Lisbon is one of my favourite European cities! I hope it never becomes a tourist hell hole like Barcelona.


Partly true, but I must say that Lisbon has a different vibe compared to Barcelona, something very fascinating and "unspoiled" there.. love it, and love the sound of the language and the music


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## mckeenan (Apr 17, 2013)

I don't think it is gonna be "the new Barcelona", but it is underated, that's for sure, and it has one of the best european nightlife. Madrid's nightlife had suffered lately because of more restrcitive regulations by the City Council, athough it is probably still on the top 5 of European nightlife, along with Lisbon and maybe Barcelona, Valencia, or Amsterdam.


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## Fern (Dec 3, 2004)

It certainly is capable of becoming the "new hipster city in Europe". However, Barcelona and Lisbon are two different cities and hopefully they'll remain that way, each with its own attractions.


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## gincan (Feb 1, 2006)

Lisbon is still hard to reach on a budget from large parts of Europe (few low cost airline destinations), the large european carriers only traffic Lisbon from capital airports (Heathrow, De Gaulle, Frankfurt, etc), and Lisbon has a small airport that can't easily be expanded. For Lisbon to become the "new" Barcelona a new airport and tons of new routes would be necesary.


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## WeimieLvr (May 26, 2008)

Go back a few centuries and there was a time when it was the other way around - Barcelona was the new Lisbon...


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

gincan said:


> Lisbon is still hard to reach on a budget from large parts of Europe (few low cost airline destinations), the large european carriers only traffic Lisbon from capital airports (Heathrow, De Gaulle, Frankfurt, etc), and Lisbon has a small airport that can't easily be expanded. For Lisbon to become the "new" Barcelona a new airport and tons of new routes would be necesary.


I'm going in April, tickets were pretty cheap, £75 return including taxes etc from Liverpool with Easyjet.


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## Ribarca (Jan 28, 2005)

Hate these kind of sentences. Every place is unique. Obviously I love both cities to pieces. 

Too much focus on tourism is not the way out of the crisis for the South of Europe as well. Better focus on other types of business now.

Better lock this thread before it becomes a city vs city.


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## Fern (Dec 3, 2004)

gincan said:


> Lisbon is still hard to reach on a budget from large parts of Europe (few low cost airline destinations), the large european carriers only traffic Lisbon from capital airports (Heathrow, De Gaulle, Frankfurt, etc), and Lisbon has a small airport that can't easily be expanded. For Lisbon to become the "new" Barcelona a new airport and tons of new routes would be necesary.


That used to be the case, but not anymore. Both Ryanair and Easyjet now have bases in Lisbon with plenty of new destinations and the airport has been expanded. There's a new airport already in the pipeline, to be built once this one reaches full capacity. As you may know growth is gradual. Barcelona did not reach its current status overnight.



Ribarca said:


> Better lock this thread before it becomes a city vs city.


There's no reason why it should. Neither side holds a grudge against the other, quite the opposite.


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## Galro (Aug 9, 2010)

I like Lisbon, but I think the city feels quite a lot smaller than Barcelona despite that the populations are not that far of from each other. I think the city would feel very cramped with the same amount of tourists as Barcelona.


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## Fern (Dec 3, 2004)

^^ You are considering the historical centre alone, but the areas of interest in Lisbon and its metro area span over a pretty wide area, which goes from Cascais and Sintra to the former Expo grounds.


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## Ribarca (Jan 28, 2005)

I didn't mean people like you Fern but outsiders. But let's keep it going then indeed.

The spreading of toursists has happened in Barcelona as well. It started with the Gotico, then the Eixample, Barceloneta, Born, Raval. Now it's even going towards Poble sec (where Ferran Adria opened a restaurant and made it "hip" etc).

In the end tourism is a beast that is unstoppable. Lisbon is a great city and when people find out homes will be turned into apartments (e.g. airBnb). Tourist apartments bring up much more than normal home. Here Lisbon can learn from Barcelona and try to stop the tourists taking over parts of the city.

Key is to bring in the rich tourists as well next to the budget ones. In that sense Barcelona has succeeded well since it's Europe's main cruise destination and some of the world's main cruise ships have Barcelona as it's base. In this case Lisbon can learn something positive from Barcelona.

Another aspect are expo's. These bring in tons of money. Also in that sense Lisbon can look at Barcelona which is one of the major expo cities in Europe. With many small expositions and fairs but also with the Mobile World Congress. Lisbon has a lot of potential here. A great city with superb weather can attract lots of expos.


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## Fern (Dec 3, 2004)

Ribarca said:


> In the end tourism is a beast that is unstoppable. Lisbon is a great city and when people find out homes will be turned into apartments (e.g. airBnb). Tourist apartments bring up much more than normal home. Here Lisbon can learn from Barcelona and try to stop the tourists taking over parts of the city.


Hopefully no single quarter will be surrendered to tourists. Which parts of Barcelona are suffering from that? 



Ribarca said:


> Key is to bring in the rich tourists as well next to the budget ones. In that sense Barcelona has succeeded well since it's Europe's main cruise destination and some of the world's main cruise ships have Barcelona as it's base. In this case Lisbon can learn something positive from Barcelona.


Lisbon has been going down the same road, with the number of cruise ships making stop overs in the city growing every year and a new cruise ship terminal due to be completed in 2016:









Three more marinas are planned to begin construction in the coming years and at least one will be able to handle large yachts.



Ribarca said:


> Another aspect are expo's. These bring in tons of money. Also in that sense Lisbon can look at Barcelona which is one of the major expo cities in Europe. With many small expositions and fairs but also with the Mobile World Congress. Lisbon has a lot of potential here. A great city with superb weather can attract lots of expos.


Lisbon has been a top destination for business and events tourism for a few years now (with over one hundred events hosted every year) but is still missing a large congress centre. There are plans, still at an early stage, to build one in the Parque Eduardo VII area (hopefully not in the actual park).


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## Ribarca (Jan 28, 2005)

In Barcelona the gotico especially has been flooded with tourists. The hotel boom seems to have no end but I think the local government is applying quota.

Interesting developments. Especially the cruise tourists can bring in lots of cash. They stay in 5* hotels and spend big.

The problem of Lisbon and Barcelona economically is that Madrid has become the place for many multinationals to settle for the whole Iberian peninsula. Its central location and abundance of building space is hard to compete against.


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## Fern (Dec 3, 2004)

That's true, but where I think that both Lisbon and Barcelona can beat Madrid is in the quality of life they can offer their citizens. Most people prefer to live by the sea and enjoy the benefits that come with it, eg. beach, sailing, water sports, etc.


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## Ribarca (Jan 28, 2005)

Agreed there. Living by the water is a great asset and having some nice seaside towns (and islands) nearby helps as well. And it never gets really cold in both cities. Unlike Madrid which sits on the Spanish plain on altitude.


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## gincan (Feb 1, 2006)

Fern said:


> Hopefully no single quarter will be surrendered to tourists. Which parts of Barcelona are suffering from that?


The tourism in Barcelona has completely changed the caracter of the central city. It is now a city that cater almost exlusively to tourism when it was basically the opposite 25 years ago. Today, all stores are international brand stores which you can find in any major city, international chains are overcrowding in a to small part of the city creating an urban Disney World for tourist shoppers.

The family run businesses have all but completely vanished from the old town, pushed out by profit mongering developers buying up all the old run down real estate that desperately needs private investment. Rents are through the roof and what once was a thriving comunity and a living breathing neighbourhood has now disappeared. This has happened both in the old town and Barceloneta and is now working its way through Raval, Poblenou and Poble Sec.

City hall is of course happy, higher rents means more exclusive stores and more tax income. And no subsidising of renovation projects with tax payers money in the old city since that is all taken care of with private investments. This is all going to accelerate in the future, when other parts of the city will succumb to the ever expanding tourism industry.


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## Kaiser_90 (Dec 5, 2012)

Galro said:


> I like Lisbon, but I think the city feels quite a lot smaller than Barcelona despite that the populations are not that far of from each other. I think the city would feel very cramped with the same amount of tourists as Barcelona.



But it is indeed...Barcelona has what? 5 million in metro area? Lisbon has 2.7 million in a very extended metro region, and the city municipality just over 500 000. Still i think the touristic area is quite big from the old town to other modern areas . And the region has beaches, heritage sites and other atractions not just in the city itself.


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## NordikNerd (Feb 5, 2011)

As from Scandinavia I think that among the people I know and my own opinion about these two cities, I can say that Barcelona has a very strong trademark. Especially younger people go there for shorter stays to enjoy restaurants, night clubs and culture. It's a trendy hipster destination.

Lisbon is further away, people in Sweden have a vague idea about what to see and do there. 
Lisbon seems to have a slower pace and mostly older folks enjoy going there. Lisbon has a better airport hub for South America though with more intercontinetal flights than Barcelona.

Stockholm-Barcelona is about 3h flight
Stockholm-Lisbon is about 4h flight

I have been to Barcelona but not to Lisbon, which is the case for many Scandinavians.

I would compare Lisbon-Barcelona with Stockholm-Copenhagen. The danish capital has more visitors, despite higher prices mainly because the city is closer to continental europe and that it has short flight time and better connections than stockholm which is further away in the sparsely populated north.

Another pair of City rivals would be Prague-Budapest, with Prague as the more popular one, because of the better location and reputation of Prague.


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## bayviews (Mar 3, 2006)

WeimieLvr said:


> Go back a few centuries and there was a time when it was the other way around - Barcelona was the new Lisbon...



Barcelona seems to have reached its peak when it hosted the Olympics & gained lots of tourism after the games. By contrast, Lisbon starts from being a smaller, less known & celebrated city. That being the case, Lisbon best days have yet to come!


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## Ribarca (Jan 28, 2005)

Actually the peak came much later than the Olympics. It's now.

An important factor is location. Barcelona is Europe's major cruise port and the starting point of many cruises on the Mediterranean heading for France and Italy (and quite often Mallorca) afterwards. Being the starting point means that people also book nights in hotels in the city. Mostly the higher end ones.

Lisbon for its location can't be part of this cruise route. Of-course there are other cruise routes but the Mediterranean one is by far Europe's most popular. But I agree, for sure Lisbon's tourism boom is yet to come.


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## sebvill (Apr 13, 2005)

Lisbon is underrated
Barcelona is overrated

Why are Portuguese always comparing their country with Spain?


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## Ribarca (Jan 28, 2005)

We were having a positive discussion how Lisbon can attract even more tourists... I think you kind of missed the point of this thread.


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## gincan (Feb 1, 2006)

bayviews said:


> Barcelona seems to have reached its peak when it hosted the Olympics & gained lots of tourism after the games. By contrast, Lisbon starts from being a smaller, less known & celebrated city. That being the case, Lisbon best days have yet to come!


Actually, the tourism industry in Barcelona began several years after the Olympics, it is mainly thanks to low cost airlines like Vueling, Ryan Air, Easy Jet and the opening of direct routes to Barcelona from new markets. 

Before the late 1990s if you wanted to fly to Barcelona you had to fly through a HUB going out from any small/mid sized airport in Europe. Only the main airports had direct routes. So if you wanted to go to Barcelona it was either through Frankfurt/Paris/Madrid/Rome/London or pay very expensive tickets on a direct flight if you were lucky enough that your airport had such a connection.

This is also very apparent if you look at statistics over tourism in Barcelona over the last 20 years. Since the Olympics and in reality sice 1997-1998, international holiday tourism in Barcelona has increased from less than 400.000 to over 5 million.


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## Ribarca (Jan 28, 2005)

Actually there are 7 million tourists nowadays of which 2.6 million are cruise tourists (for which the city is the starting or ending point of a Mediterranean cruise). 

Cruise tourism and the many conferences held (like the Mobile World Congress) have led to a boom in 4 and 5 stars hotels.


There is good news for both cities. Barcelona and Lisbon occupy place 1 and 2 in the cities of the future ranking of the Financial Times in the South of Europe.


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## sebvill (Apr 13, 2005)

Ribarca said:


> We were having a positive discussion how Lisbon can attract even more tourists... I think you kind of missed the point of this thread.


My comment has to do wih the first post of this thread. I didnt even read your discussion.


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## Metro007 (Apr 18, 2011)

gincan said:


> Only the main airports had direct routes. So if you wanted to go to Barcelona it was either through Frankfurt/Paris/Madrid/Rome/London or pay very expensive tickets on a direct flight if you were lucky enough that your airport had such a connection.


Every bigger cities already had direct connections and not only the big hubs. I flew once from Basel-Euroairport (who is a small airport) and 1982 from Geneva. But there were no intercontinental connections and you had to fly to Madrid if coming from USA/South America for example. But the price for direct connections to BCN were higher that's true (fliying was in general expensiver before the low-cost carriers became successful.


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## Galandar (Dec 2, 2004)

This smells city v. city


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## gincan (Feb 1, 2006)

Metro007 said:


> Every bigger cities already had direct connections and not only the big hubs. I flew once from Basel-Euroairport (who is a small airport) and 1982 from Geneva. But there were no intercontinental connections and you had to fly to Madrid if coming from USA/South America for example. But the price for direct connections to BCN were higher that's true (fliying was in general expensiver before the low-cost carriers became successful.


If you look at a destinations chart for El Prat in 1994 or 1995 and compare to today, you find that there are between 2 and 3 times as many destinations in Europe. In the 1980s El Prat handled 2-3 million international passengers, today it handle 26-27 million, ten times as many. In the 1980s, it was waaaaaaay more expensive to fly, I paid the equivalent of 40 hours work for a 2 hour flight between London and Barcelona, today I can find tickets les expensive than what I earn in 2 hours. If prices were the same today that they were in the 1980s, you would pay between 1000-1500 euros for a 2-3 hour flight in Europe, and that would be the cheapest ticket you could find. The normal price would be 2-3000 euros.


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## Tortombo (Jul 31, 2013)

I hope tourism doesn't destroy Lisbon. 

The region of Lisbon has more than 4 million tourists two years in a row now, more than 2.5 of them are foreigners. This means that overall there are now one million more tourists than in 2004. 

However, i have the feeling that most of tourists don't really understand Lisbon - just by look a little at some travel blogs or travel guides and mistakes are everywhere. 



Galro said:


> I like Lisbon, but I think the city feels quite a lot smaller than Barcelona despite that the populations are not that far of from each other. I think the city would feel very cramped with the same amount of tourists as Barcelona.


See? This is a good example, because according to wiki, Barcelona is only 100km2 right? 

Most of tourists don't understand the real size of Lisbon - that is, 85 km2. 

So, surprise, Paris is only 20km2 bigger than Lisbon and Barcelona 15km2, which is not that much. Barcelona has much more population (~1.6 million) and Lisbon only has ~0.5 million (where in the 1960's there was ~0.8 million). 

There's still a lot to do in Lisbon when tourists think the city is only the historical centre and Belém is a different town or "suburb". I have also read a lot about "the roman aqueduct" hno: and a that a tourist can see all major sights with the famous tram 28. :nuts:

That is, i think nowadays massive tourism is not a problem: Tourists spend just a few days in the centre and they travel to Belém thinking they are having a day trip - and they are not even leaving the city.

In my opinion this is very ridiculous, and i feel there's too much cliché-travelling and the real Lisbon is not being completely understood.


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## TeKnO_Lx (Oct 19, 2004)

NordikNerd said:


> As from Scandinavia I think that among the people I know and my own opinion about these two cities, I can say that Barcelona has a very strong trademark. Especially younger people go there for shorter stays to enjoy restaurants, night clubs and culture. It's a trendy hipster destination.
> 
> Lisbon is further away, people in Sweden have a vague idea about what to see and do there.
> Lisbon seems to have a slower pace and mostly older folks enjoy going there. Lisbon has a better airport hub for South America though with more intercontinetal flights than Barcelona.
> ...


Yes, thanks for your feedback. I am aware of this. Barcelona "branding" is very strong and we are tryng to copy this, combined with changes in urban planning (renovation of buldings/public spaces/green spaces etc). And also, in Lisbon we still have a more older population and maybe the attractions are more for "mature" ppl (historical or romantique, while Barca is more "fun" and "young" city/vibe definitely), but also there´s less gentrification process than Barcelona for sure. Anyway you should come here, and compare for yourself. I would say Lisbon has a bit of other worldwide cities landmarks, such as San Fran (Golden Gate and hippie/relaxed culture), Havana (crumbling buldings, yet in major reconstruction), Berlin (vanguard urban/street art) or Rio de Janeiro (Corcovado and beach/surf culture). This make it´s urban features unique in Europe, combined with it´s vistas and caffe culture.



Ribarca said:


> Actually there are 7 million tourists nowadays of which 2.6 million are cruise tourists (for which the city is the starting or ending point of a Mediterranean cruise).
> 
> Cruise tourism and the many conferences held (like the Mobile World Congress) have led to a boom in 4 and 5 stars hotels.
> 
> There is good news for both cities. Barcelona and Lisbon occupy place 1 and 2 in the cities of the future ranking of the Financial Times in the South of Europe.


Lisbon cruise port hold about 500 000 pax, very far from barca because of it´s location, like you mentioned. I believe Lisbon and Barcelona can be the most attractive places to foreigners to move in Europe. That already happens in Lisbon where there´s´lot of jobs for foreigners in worldwide call centers for example, including other languagues (spanish, french, german, norwegian, finnish, chinese, russian etc)


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## Metro007 (Apr 18, 2011)

gincan said:


> If you look at a destinations chart for El Prat in 1994 or 1995 and compare to today, you find that there are between 2 and 3 times as many destinations in Europe. In the 1980s El Prat handled 2-3 million international passengers, today it handle 26-27 million, ten times as many. In the 1980s, it was waaaaaaay more expensive to fly, I paid the equivalent of 40 hours work for a 2 hour flight between London and Barcelona, today I can find tickets les expensive than what I earn in 2 hours. If prices were the same today that they were in the 1980s, you would pay between 1000-1500 euros for a 2-3 hour flight in Europe, and that would be the cheapest ticket you could find. The normal price would be 2-3000 euros.


 I dont get your point. Of course people can fly nowadays cheaper and the trafic has increased. But even in the 80s there were a lot of direct connections beetween most of european cities and BCN, and NOT only from big hubs as you wrote, but the frequency was lower of course.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

Tortombo said:


> However, i have the feeling that most of tourists don't really understand Lisbon - just by look a little at some travel blogs or travel guides and mistakes are everywhere.
> 
> In my opinion this is very ridiculous, and i feel there's too much cliché-travelling and the real Lisbon is not being completely understood.


You could probably say the same about any city, you are not going to understand fully how a city is after spending just a few days there. I don't think that short term visitors to Paris, NYC, London, Hong Kong or indeed Barcelona understand those cities like a resident does after visiting a few tourist sites over a weekend.


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## Tortombo (Jul 31, 2013)

Jonesy55 said:


> You could probably say the same about any city, you are not going to understand fully how a city is after spending just a few days there. I don't think that short term visitors to Paris, NYC, London, Hong Kong or indeed Barcelona understand those cities like a resident does after visiting a few tourist sites over a weekend.


Yes, i can totally understand that. What i don't understand are the mistakes done over and over again by tourist guides, for instance.

I'm not sure if i was clear enough: Lisbon is really, really bad in promoting its features. So i have the feeling those guides are repeating themselves cliches and errors, and they end up saying worldwide that Lisbon is only the historical centre. So tourists came here, do the same things for a short time, and that's it.

So if Lisbon was a balloon, it is always half empty.


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## Fern (Dec 3, 2004)

NordikNerd said:


> As from Scandinavia I think that among the people I know and my own opinion about these two cities, I can say that Barcelona has a very strong trademark. Especially younger people go there for shorter stays to enjoy restaurants, night clubs and culture. It's a trendy hipster destination.
> 
> Lisbon is further away, people in Sweden have a vague idea about what to see and do there.
> *Lisbon seems to have a slower pace and mostly older folks enjoy going there.* Lisbon has a better airport hub for South America though with more intercontinetal flights than Barcelona.


That's a preconceived idea, far from reality, perhaps owing to the fact that Lisbon is less known and promoted than Barcelona. In reality, however, Lisbon is becoming more popular among the younger crowds (erasmus, inter rail, end of year trips, etc.) for its night life, great hostels, beaches and so on. It is a growing trend and not yet on par with Barcelona.



Tortombo said:


> Yes, i can totally understand that. What i don't understand are the mistakes done over and over again by tourist guides, for instance.
> 
> I'm not sure if i was clear enough: Lisbon is really, really bad in promoting its features. So i have the feeling those guides are repeating themselves cliches and errors, and they end up saying worldwide that Lisbon is only the historical centre. So tourists came here, do the same things for a short time, and that's it.
> 
> So if Lisbon was a balloon, it is always half empty.


I have to disagree. Tourists tend to be drawn to attractions outside of Lisbon's historical centre, such as the Parque das Nações, Cascais, Sintra and even Óbidos, Mafra and Batalha, as well. Pop into tripadvisor or spend some time in any of those places and you will witness how strong tourism has become in those areas, particularly in the last few years.


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## El_Greco (Apr 1, 2005)

Tortombo said:


> So tourists came here, do the same things for a short time, and that's it.


Most tourists sadly don't have any interest in the places they visit. I call them tick-a-box tourists who travel only to say they have been there. For instance when I was in Naples my hotel was chock full but the city itself was devoid of tourists - most simply came to see Pompeii and Herculaneum. My own family too only ever visits the big landmarks, exploring what lies between them is an alien idea to them.


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## Ribarca (Jan 28, 2005)

I think there are two types of tourists. The ones trying to discover a city and get a feel for the city and the ones as you describe who just tick the boxes. The Asian tourists being the example. I have Asian friends who when they go to Europe want to visit up to 10 cities in a few weeks. I always try to explain them that they can only touch the surface of two cities in that time frame.

While my idea of tourism is to walk as much in a city as I can and not use any tourist guide. That's also how I explored Lisbon (we were in the city during the European championships).

But in the end I prefer it that the majority of tourists don't venture too far from the famous landmarks. In Amsterdam for example it means that neighborhoods can keep their authentic feel. I don't want my local bar ran over because it is in the Lonely Planet guide.


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## El_Greco (Apr 1, 2005)

Ribarca said:


> But in the end I prefer it that the majority of tourists don't venture too far from the famous landmarks. In Amsterdam for example it means that neighborhoods can keep their authentic feel. I don't want my local bar ran over because it is in the Lonely Planet guide.


Agreed. I just find this mentality hard to understand. Traveling to another place and not exploring it sounds like a wasted trip. Worse are the guys that go to the exotic locations (Caribbean or Asia) only to spend the entire time lying by the poolside in their hotel.


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## Tortombo (Jul 31, 2013)

Fern said:


> I have to disagree. Tourists tend to be drawn to attractions outside of Lisbon's historical centre, such as the Parque das Nações, Cascais, Sintra and even Óbidos, Mafra and Batalha, as well. Pop into tripadvisor or spend some time in any of those places and you will witness how strong tourism has become in those areas, particularly in the last few years.


I have some experience in tripadvisor as well as other tourist sites. Like i said, the problem lies in what tourists think Lisbon is - and that is a major problem. 

If tourists and even some guides or sites think there's a "roman aqueduct" in Lisbon, then there is a problem. If tourists think the Parque das Nações is a suburb and are spreading it, then there is a problem. 

Also i don't understand why are you comparing Parque das Nações with Sintra, Óbidos, Mafra and Batalha - the last four have nothing to do with Lisbon whatsoever. The problem remains the same.


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