# Do you know highways with speed limit >130 km/h?



## El Tiburon (Mar 21, 2010)

TheCat said:


> I wish we here in Ontario had a 130 km/h limit on our motorways instead of 100, and then I would even support strict enforcement using averaging cameras.


In 1993, I drove from Niagara Falls to Belleville, then to Montreal and Quebec and then to Vermont. I noticed everyone driving at 130 km/h and went with the flow of traffic. I wasn't bothered by the Ontario Provincial Police or the Surete du Quebec even though I passed through numerous speed traps. The signs with the fine schedule listed a very high fine after 135 km/h but a much lower one between 100 and 135 km/h, so I drove as I saw Canadians driving, that is, at a very safe 130 km/h speed and with strict lane discipline.


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## snowman159 (May 16, 2008)

El Tiburon said:


> Maybe the speed limit is set too low at 130 km/h and an engineering study should be made to see if it should be raised to 150 km/h. <snip>


I doubt that very much. Most people only remember the fast drivers who pass them at high speeds, but not the majority in front and behind of them who do about the same speed. The same is also true for people doing stupid things in general - those are the ones you remember.

From more than one source, I heard/read that (in Austria) the vast majority of drivers don't exceed 130kmh - a lot of them actually drive slower than 130kmh. Which, of course, doesn't mean there'll be any shortage of "customers" for the police.


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## bogdymol (Feb 4, 2010)

El Tiburon said:


> In 1993, I drove from Niagara Falls to Belleville, then to Montreal and Quebec and then to Vermont. I noticed everyone driving at 130 km/h and went with the flow of traffic. I wasn't bothered by the Ontario Provincial Police or the Surete du Quebec even though I passed through numerous speed traps. The signs with the fine schedule listed a very high fine after 135 km/h but a much lower one between 100 and 135 km/h, so I drove as I saw Canadians driving, that is, at a very safe 130 km/h speed and with strict lane discipline.


I drove on I-95 in Florida last year and things were pretty similar. The speed limit was 70 mph (and even 65 mph in some parts!), but everyone was doing 75-80 mph. I saw many State Troopers on the road, but they weren't bothered by those who drove 80 mph or less.


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## Eddard Stark (Mar 31, 2008)

In Italy before the introduction of the "tutor" was very common to drive at 150 or even 170 km/h

When I was a kid my dad drove 160-170 most of the time. Why so? italian police was almost nonexistent on highways

Than finally came the automatic speed control on most highways and italians learned to respect the 130 km/h

Of course this annoy a small band of elitarian males which feeel they should be able to do whatever on highways

that's the reason of the proposal to raise to 150 km/h which is actually now a law, but has to be enforced at will by the highway managemente

Autostrade per l'Italia will never apply that, since they believe in a slower, smoother highways system (they invented the "tutor" system)

Therefore I believe all speed limits in Italy will remain firmly at 130

ps: speed limits in America are simply ridiculous


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## Wilhem275 (Apr 7, 2006)

You're right: Autostrade per l'Italia will not apply the higher limit. The news tell the Brescia - Padova management (different owner) is willing to apply it. That stretch is still missing the Tutor system, and they declared they want to introduce at the same time the Tutor and the new limit.
Not mentioning, of course, that we are talking about one of the most crowded highway in Italy, mostly by trucks... I hope these are just the classic "summer silly news" to keep people chatting about nothing.


So, it seems that, even in those places where the posted limit is really too low, many drivers choose a speed around 120-130 (75-80), and no more, and enforcement applies this level of tolerance.


To be honest, in my first 2-3 years as a driver (now I'm 24), driving an Audi A6 (the best highway poseur car ) I had been always over 150, more often around 170, when traffic permitted these speeds. I've always been extremely respectful of the law, except for highway speed.
Then, thanks to the average speed controls (the Tutor we mentioned), I discovered the joy of using the cruise control, fixing the speed at no more than the posted limit.

Now I'm respectful at all, so I can complain about other people's mistakes 
130 is a nice ride, and 110 is the perfect compromise between speed and fuel saving.


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## El Tiburon (Mar 21, 2010)

bogdymol said:


> I drove on I-95 in Florida last year and things were pretty similar. The speed limit was 70 mph (and even 65 mph in some parts!), but everyone was doing 75-80 mph. I saw many State Troopers on the road, but they weren't bothered by those who drove 80 mph or less.


The problem in Florida is that lane discipline is not mandatory and people use the left lane to leisurely drive slower than the flow of traffic instead of keeping the left lane for passing, even in multilane roads.

A few years ago, the Florida Legislature passed a law requiring lane discipline but then-governor Jeb Bush vetoed it because he said he was against any law that might lead to speeding (never minding that Florida speed limits are unrealistically low).

Most state troopers will let you drive up to 80 mph (130 km/h) in a 70 mph (110 km/h) zone, except in counties like St. Lucie and Osceola, for example, where they love to collect revenue through speeding tickets using front and rear radar antennas and where you should put the cruise control at the speed limit.

Also, watch out for the white lines across the pavement. Those are "money" lines 1/4 mile (.4 km) from each other
and come in groups of three (1/2 mile or .8 km). They are used by a trooper on an aircraft with a stopwatch to clock speeders and then notify troopers on the road to pull you over and issue you a speeding ticket. Make sure that you are at the speed limit when crossing those lines.


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## El Tiburon (Mar 21, 2010)

Eddard Stark said:


> In Italy before the introduction of the "tutor" was very common to drive at 150 or even 170 km/h
> 
> Than finally came the automatic speed control on most highways and italians learned to respect the 130 km/h


What are the "tutor" and the "automatic speed control" that they have in Italy?



> ps: speed limits in America are simply ridiculous


Absolutely! In America, most speed limits are set politically and not scientifically. Often they are based on faulty assumptions disproved by scientific studies, but which still persist. Other times, the insurance industry lobbyists convince leagislators to keep speed limits unreasonably low so that more traffic tickets are generated so that drivers can get points in their records which are used by insurance companies to raise premiums. Insurance companies, for example, will donate radar or lidar guns to police departments to write more tickets. Insurance also prefers lower speeds so that there is less damages to pay in accidents.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

El Tiburon said:


> What are the "tutor" and the "automatic speed control" that they have in Italy?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPECS_(speed_camera)


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

I drove from Belgium to Italy last month and on a lot of German highways speed limit was 130 km/h with strokes of no limitation between them...


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Yeah a large number of Autobahns are limited to 130 km/h. I can't say I really regret it, it drives much more relaxing if you're not into racing. Besides that, they barely enforce these 130 km/h limits, there are only a few speed cameras. I've seen a highway patrol only once, and they stopped me for a random drugs check (let's face it, I'm Dutch after all, it comes with the nationality).


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

> (let's face it, I'm Dutch after all, it comes with the nationality).


Haha :lol: true, when Belgium police does controls you can almost always see a Dutch car between the stopped cars . I don't life to far from the border so I regulary see dutch cars here. Especially before newyear, the Dutch buy fireworks in Belgium... :cheers:


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Wilhem275 said:


> To be honest, in my first 2-3 years as a driver (now I'm 24), driving an Audi A6


Shouldn't newly licensed drivers drive far less powerful cars? I'm pretty sure there's a law in Italy about this...


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## Wilhem275 (Apr 7, 2006)

Yep, but that applied only to people getting their license after the law was passed.

What is more, new drivers shouldn't drive over 100 km/h on the highway, and that applied to me.
How wrong my behavoiur had been...  one week after I got my license, I topped 230 on the A21 hno: hno: hno:


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

^^ I know what you're talking about. Driving instructors are generally very strict about speed, if you drive 130 km/h in a learners vehicle in the Netherlands, the instructor will tell you to slow down or taps the brake himself (I had that a few times, the SL in NL is 120 km/h).

However, the first thing people generally do, especially younger people, is test the top speed of their car, without having much experience about driving fast. Driving 160+ km/h is quite different from the grandpa driving they teach you in driving school.


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## EEH (Jul 16, 2010)

In Bulgaria the highway speed limit is 130 km/h. However, this is far from convenient. If going this fast, you will be constantly catching up with fuel savers, cruisers or trucks that go with 100-120. If you stick to the left lane, you will constantly be caught up with "racers" who drive with 140-150. So the safest speed and least overtaking by switching lanes is 140-145 in the left lane. 

The news about this 150 speed limit in Italy came here too and the public is quite divided on whether it should be accepted or not. I don't believe it will be introduced, otherwise the highway traffic police will remain jobless. :nuts:


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

None around here. Highest speed limit is 65mph (almost 105 km/h). 

Of course though many people get to the 130 km/h mark and higher when the cops aren't around though.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

On Belgian Highways and 4 lane roads with crash barrier(expressways) speed limit is 120km/h or 74.5 mph but most of time when youre driving that speed you'll see a lot of cars zooming by at 140km/h or 87mph. Fines are high and there are regular controls but that doesn't seem to mind these people. 

*This comes from the US ambassy in Brussels where Amercians that travel to Belgium can find specific information over Belgium:

The maximum speed limit on Belgian highways is 120 kilometers (72 miles) per hour, but is not always posted. The maximum speed in urban areas is normally 50 km (30 miles) per hour. While Belgian authorities strictly enforce speed limits, many Belgians still drive significantly faster than the posted limit. Claims of ignorance may not prevent a significant fine for speeding, which can also lead to the vehicle being impounded if the driver is unable to pay the fine on the spot. *

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1044.html


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

EEH said:


> The news about this 150 speed limit in Italy came here too and the public is quite divided on whether it should be accepted or not. I don't believe it will be introduced, otherwise the highway traffic police will remain jobless. :nuts:


AFAIK the 150 kph limit in Italy was proposed in a previous draft of the new Highway Code, but dropped in subsequent revisions, so it will not be introduced.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Only Americans need a speed limit sign every 3 km on a motorway / freeway. :lol:

In Europe, speed limits on motorways are often only posted if it is different from the default speed limit (120 - 130 km/h). For example you can see speed limit signs generally after every exit if a lower SL applies in an urban area. But you won't find many signs indicating 120 km/h in Belgium. In Germany's case, 130 km/h limits are often signed because the default speed limit there is no limit.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Only Americans need a speed limit sign every 3 km on a motorway / freeway. :lol:
> 
> In Europe, speed limits on motorways are often only posted if it is different from the default speed limit (120 - 130 km/h). For example you can see speed limit signs generally after every exit if a lower SL applies in an urban area. But you won't find many signs indicating 120 km/h in Belgium. In Germany's case, 130 km/h limits are often signed because the default speed limit there is no limit.


Actually I've only seen signs indicating 110 and 90 km/h on Belgian higways during rush hour... I never saw a 120 km/h plate ever :lol:


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## Stahlsturm (Mar 30, 2012)

Road_UK said:


> What about boyracers who think they can drive fast? They are usually the first who end up in a ditch, or worse: put entire family's with children in hospitals and cemeteries.


They already did that with Motorcycles in Germany. the first 2 years you are only allowed to drive a bike up to a certain size (read Speed, engine output) so you are forced to learn how to handle such a thing in everyday traffic without the ability of going 250 kmh. I think a similar provision with cars would be more useful than a general limit.

Not that any limit or regulation will keep the real idiots off the road because they get Daddy's 500 PS BMW and drive stoned and drunk and God knows what else and then kill themselves, their 4 friends in the car they tried to impress and the family that happened to be oncoming traffic... Sad but true.


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## F81 (Jul 15, 2009)

A real idiot would't give a damn for any posted speed limit.

Speed limit instead should be the safest maximum speed for that stretch of road. If this were true, normal drivers would learn to match that speed limit, knowing it's posted for a good reason.

Instead, politically chosen speed limits way below the safe limit invite people to disregard them, and to disregard also those posted for a safety reason.


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## cinxxx (Oct 15, 2010)

F81 said:


> Instead, politically chosen speed limits way below the safe limit invite people to disregard them, and to disregard also those posted for a safety reason.


I totally agree with this. If you come from Romania to Germany, you will see how almost all signs do make sense, and help you drive on that road stretch. This is at least my impression.

In Romania, many signs don't exist where they should, then you have a lot of stupid signs, overtaking ban where there is huge visibility, stupid speed limits, many of these set in places only because police like to collect money there.
So then most people begin to ignore the sings, and where they do know the road well it's ok, but this driving style will make you ignore them also where you don't know it well, and then tragedies happen.


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## Stahlsturm (Mar 30, 2012)

cinxxx said:


> I totally agree with this. If you come from Romania to Germany, you will see how almost all signs do make sense, and help you drive on that road stretch. This is at least my impression.
> 
> In Romania, many signs don't exist where they should, then you have a lot of stupid signs, overtaking ban where there is huge visibility, stupid speed limits, many of these set in places only because police like to collect money there.


There's a fast growing number of these on regular country roads in Germany because aside from the Autobahn not only Police but also the local communities can (and will) get involved in speed controls and those (unlike actual Police measures) are not focussed on traffic safety but on revenue maximizing.


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## cinxxx (Oct 15, 2010)

Stahlsturm said:


> There's a fast growing number of these on regular country roads in Germany because aside from the Autobahn not only Police but also the local communities can (and will) get involved in speed controls and those (unlike actual Police measures) are not focussed on traffic safety but on revenue maximizing.


That's sad and stupid.
I didn't get a ticket yet. On national roads tend to drive 120kmh where it's safe, and some of these roads are really well built. In urban places I don't like speeding, I mostly get overtaken in Ingolstadt, while driving 55-60. 
A friend told me that he saw many fixed radar cameras in Baden-Württemberg on the road from Nördlingen to Aalen. Maybe Bavaria is just an exception.

Anyway, stupid political morons make more chaos and harm the people they should represent than the people themselves.


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## Neverworld (Sep 4, 2011)

Road_UK said:


> You'll be surprised how many accidents happen at night due to empty roads and lane straddling vehicles.


Most of those don't happen due to speeding but due to inattention. If you check the crazy drivers thread, you will find most accidents happen due to improper (or no) application of general traffic rules as opposed to speeding, often due to fatigue.

In my opinion it's more dangerous to drive for four hours straight under the speed limit, than to stop frequently and occasionally go a bit faster.

In fact, last time I checked only 5% of deadly accidents in the Netherlands were due to speeding. There are way more serious problems, like alcohol, inattention etc. In fact, many accidents happen due to a vehicle getting on the wrong side of the road. The solution by Dutch authorities is to ban overtaking in many of those roads. Overtaking wasn't the problem though, it was inattention and sleepiness that was the cause for the swerving.


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## verreme (May 16, 2012)

Road_UK said:


> What about boyracers who think they can drive fast? They are usually the first who end up in a ditch, or worse: put entire family's with children in hospitals and cemeteries.


These people are always going to drive recklessly (recklessly fast I mean) regardless of speed limits.


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## Wilhem275 (Apr 7, 2006)

Stahlsturm said:


> So outlaw slow drivers then ?


Should we outlaw all trucks from the motorways, then? They'll do 80 whatever the limit for cars is.
And even if the problem is "cars going too slow", posting a minimum speed limit does not provide any guarantee that this will not happen. The too-slow driver might get fined, but once you get involved in a crash you're not happy about it even if you're 100% right...
Anyway, most of the driving rules in a traffic flow are based on the responsibility of who's coming from behind. May it be a car going 90, a truck going 75 or a crate standing in the middle of the lane, the responsibility of the driver is to always be in proper conditions to stop safely.

This is to say that "removing obstacles" is a condition which helps going faster but we cannot rely on it, because it is not a constantly guaranteeable fail-safe condition (in other words, that's shit that will always happen).



Stahlsturm said:


> Stop trying to limit everyone else because of your personal shortcomings. This is like a one-eyed person demanding mandatory eyepatches for everyone.


I don't know why this kind of discussions always gets personal. Why the fact that I don't like the idea of cars allowed to go faster than 130 means that I have a "shortcoming" in driving skills? I'm way better in "fast driving" than most drivers... and THAT is why I don't like the idea of allowing it as an everyday experience, because I know what it takes to do it seriously and safely.

The whole speed limit issue is always supported by the point "let others have more freedom, even if you don't like to go over a certain speed". This is based on an incomplete vision in which the wider freedom of the speeder does not limit the freedom of the other users.
Well, it does. Having lots of faster vehicles coming from behind requires a lot more concentration on the mirrors, and no one likes to do it for the sake of others going over a certain limit.

It's not only a 10% of users who want to be allowed to go faster, there's also the other 90% who prefer personal relaxation over (a few) others' travel time.


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## geor (Nov 3, 2011)

^^

very nice explanation....


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

Yes. Some people may not want to endanger others.


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## snowdog (Mar 27, 2011)

Filipdr said:


> Actually, it's not hard to drive fast on a motorway, but you have to be extremely focused on the drivers around you and that takes tons of concentration, especially during some longer trips. This goes for Germany of course:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Chicagoago (Dec 2, 2005)

Highways in the more dense northeast and a few random other states are at 105 kph. A majority of the country is around 112-120kph. 

Regardless of where I am in the country though most people don't tend to drive slower than 120kph. When I drive around the Midwest it's usually 120-130 as the average speed of traffic with a few slower cars and a few faster. 

When I do a drives in more rural areas I always see at least one or two cars going by at 160.


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## Stahlsturm (Mar 30, 2012)

cinxxx said:


> Maybe Bavaria is just an exception.


Bavaria is lagging behind on this trend but it starts catching on here too. We'll see it getting worse as the economy declines and communities try to stay above water.


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## Stahlsturm (Mar 30, 2012)

Wilhem275 said:


> Should we outlaw all trucks from the motorways, then?


I would if I had a say. Freight belongs on trains, at least when it's long distance. It's way more economic when you consider wear of infrastructure into the bill which is usually conveniently forgotten by pro trucking advocates.



Wilhem275 said:


> And even if the problem is "cars going too slow",


The problem isn't cars going too fast or slow, the problem is people not paying attention. And the slower they go the more they try to occupy themselves with other things like texting, watching a DVD on their iPod etc. There's research that the majority of accidents here in Germany in the past few years was actually caused by people distracted because of fiddling around with their electronic gear (cell phone, navi, mp3 player, you name it). 




Wilhem275 said:


> not a constantly guaranteeable fail-safe condition (in other words, that's shit that will always happen).


There's a German proverb for this which unfortunately doesn't translate into English very well, "Das Kind mit dem Bad ausschütten". It basically means that in order to do a good thing you sometimes do more damage than the good thing does. I think that by constantly lowering and limiting individual traffic you create a dependency on signs. People stop thinking for themselves. They drive 120 because the sign says so, not because they realize that traffic demands it. I don't want to live in a World where people follow signs blindly and stop thinking for themselves, do you ?




Wilhem275 said:


> I don't know why this kind of discussions always gets personal. Why the fact that I don't like the idea of cars allowed to go faster than 130 means that I have a "shortcoming" in driving skills? I'm way better in "fast driving" than most drivers... and THAT is why I don't like the idea of allowing it as an everyday experience, because I know what it takes to do it seriously and safely.


That was a plural "you", not a personal one. I see where one could've misunderstood that and I apologize, I should've worded that more carefully, especially on a forum with many who do not have English as their native language.


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

Stahlsturm said:


> ....The problem isn't cars going too fast or slow, the problem is people not paying attention. And the slower they go the more they try to occupy themselves with other things like texting, watching a DVD on their iPod etc. There's research that the majority of accidents here in Germany in the past few years was actually caused by people distracted because of fiddling around with their electronic gear (cell phone, navi, mp3 player, you name it).


Is texting, using the phone, etc., legal there? It's banned more and more places in the U.S. Personally, I don't understand why anyone would think texting while driving would be doable....



Stahlsturm said:


> There's a German proverb for this which unfortunately doesn't translate into English very well, "Das Kind mit dem Bad ausschütten"....


"Throw the baby out with the bath water"? Common expression, actually.


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## Stahlsturm (Mar 30, 2012)

Penn's Woods said:


> Is texting, using the phone, etc., legal there? It's banned more and more places in the U.S. Personally, I don't understand why anyone would think texting while driving would be doable.....


I don't know about the rest of Europe but it's banned in Germany. Not that the fine keeps anyone from doing it anyways and then there's navis and various music devices. Distraction is a bit and growing problem.



Penn's Woods said:


> "Throw the baby out with the bath water"? Common expression, actually.


Ah  So it does work in English then


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

Calling (without hand-free devices) and texting while driving is illegal everywhere in Europe nowadays. Strangely, other dangerous activities such changing GPS, radio or heating/cooling settings, smoking or eating aren't explicitaly banned by law (but may fall under the definition of reckless driving if you have an accident).


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

^^There's a difference between changing a radio station or the heating setting and texting....


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^There's a difference between changing a radio station or the heating setting and texting....


Not so much if you browse the entire CD content reading 20 tracks' names on the display. Or if you type your destination on your GPS unit and look carefully at the map. Maybe calling (but not texting) is even safer sice it impairs only a hand but not eyes.


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

^^I'm talking about hitting one button to change the radio station. I really don't consider that "dangerous" and any legislature that put that in the same class as texting would be just saying "don't take us seriously." And I don't have a GPS.


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

What surprises me is that the law speak specifically about "the use of a mobile phone" and not a more general "every activity that may impaire your hands or eyes making driving dangerous". This shouldn't include pressing a button or two, but everything that need more than an istant. Apart the use of the mobile phone, also drinking, eating, smoking, doing make-up (for women), looking for something in the dash cases or beneath your seat, etc... are potentially dangerous.


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

You hear a lot of talk over here from police, safety advocates, and so on about "distracted driving." But I'm not sure what the laws actually say. (Don't really have time to look right now.)

I suppose they can easily prohibit specific things like using the phone and leave other things up to the circumstances. (If a police officer sees you using the phone he can stop you and issue a ticket, whereas, say, eating isn't ticketable, but if you swerve and have an accident because you were playing with your food....)


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

Yesterday I saw someone being ticketed for using a mobile phone for the first time.


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## albertocsc (Dec 28, 2009)

bogdymol said:


> Motorways in Rep. of Moldova?


Well, the 110 km/h limit is for expressways, and there is not a legal limit for motorways yet. If they built any motorway (in a far future, it seems), they could add a speed limit to their laws (130 km/h as their neighbours could be the choice), add a expressway sign to motorways (so the 110 limit would apply. In Spain they are recently doing this, but it is not modifying speed limit but only what traffic can use autovías), or keep the law as is, if they chose a system like German one.


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## Stahlsturm (Mar 30, 2012)

aswnl said:


> I like the German system most


In many responses here I read that the German system is completely misunderstood. In Germany you aren't safe at ANY speed. You can loose your insurance coverage driving 60 kmh UNDER the posted speed limit when the situation on the road would've demanded a slower speed to remain safe. Whenever your speed is ruled as a (contributing) reason for an accident your insurance is at risk. If you think by going a steady 130 on an Autobahn you are safe and nothing can happen to you you are DEAD WRONG. 

The German system is designed to give a lot of responsibility to an alert driver, a concept that seems rather alien to most of our neighbours. At least a great many of them drive like complete crap when they are here because they can't (or don't want to) adjust.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Stahlsturm said:


> In many responses here I read that the German system is completely misunderstood. In Germany you aren't safe at ANY speed. You can loose your insurance coverage driving 60 kmh UNDER the posted speed limit when the situation on the road would've demanded a slower speed to remain safe. Whenever your speed is ruled as a (contributing) reason for an accident your insurance is at risk. If you think by going a steady 130 on an Autobahn you are safe and nothing can happen to you you are DEAD WRONG.
> 
> The German system is designed to give a lot of responsibility to an alert driver, a concept that seems rather alien to most of our neighbours. At least a great many of them drive like complete crap when they are here because they can't (or don't want to) adjust.


How can a system like this work? Basically you can be fined for everything. You can go 100 km/h on a no-limit Autobahn, but if a police officer doesn't like the color of your car, or maybe is pissed because wife left him, he can fine you because - according to him - you should have gone at 70. This is nonsense.

Laws mustn't be subject to interpretations, otherwise it's chaos.


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

Stahlsturm said:


> In many responses here I read that the German system is completely misunderstood. In Germany you aren't safe at ANY speed. You can loose your insurance coverage driving 60 kmh UNDER the posted speed limit when the situation on the road would've demanded a slower speed to remain safe. Whenever your speed is ruled as a (contributing) reason for an accident your insurance is at risk. If you think by going a steady 130 on an Autobahn you are safe and nothing can happen to you you are DEAD WRONG.
> 
> The German system is designed to give a lot of responsibility to an alert driver, a concept that seems rather alien to most of our neighbours. At least a great many of them drive like complete crap when they are here because they can't (or don't want to) adjust.


Hold your horses mate. Germans used to drive fast, but disciplined. These days are long gone, and a lot of them drive as dumb as any foreigner on the road. (lane hogging, stupid speeds, either super fast or super slow, sudden braking etc etc) 

You can't blame foreigners for the terrible driving of Germans. And advisory limit on stretches with no limits remains 130.


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## Stahlsturm (Mar 30, 2012)

g.spinoza said:


> How can a system like this work? Basically you can be fined for everything. You can go 100 km/h on a no-limit Autobahn, but if a police officer doesn't like the color of your car, or maybe is pissed because wife left him, he can fine you because - according to him - you should have gone at 70. This is nonsense.
> 
> Laws mustn't be subject to interpretations, otherwise it's chaos.


You can't be fined like that. There's a difference in fining and loosing your insurance coverage, it's two legal matters.
Police can only fine you in free traffic in case you exceed a posted speed limit. However, if you are involved in an accident things are differently. Then, technically you can be fined for going slower than the posted speed limit but too fast for the traffic situation immediately before the accident and can loose your insurance coverage on top of that.
So, you cannot exceed posted speed limits but even if you follow them you still have to pay attention. Which is the big problem when a lot of people (yes Road_UK, Germans and non-Germans) start hogging the right lane because they think "I'm going the speed limit, now lemme play with my new iPod".


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## Stahlsturm (Mar 30, 2012)

Road_UK said:


> Hold your horses mate. Germans used to drive fast, but disciplined. These days are long gone, and a lot of them drive as dumb as any foreigner on the road. (lane hogging, stupid speeds, either super fast or super slow, sudden braking etc etc).


Yes and no. There are MANY bad Germans drivers these days, no doubt. What I was referring to was the insecurity you can almost touch of especially Dutch, Belgian and Danish drivers on a German Autobahn.
I call it "small country syndrome" jokingly because I've never had a problem with a French or Italian plate driver. And yeah, I know I'm generalizing horribly, I don't mean to pass my personal roadside observations off as scientific


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## snowdog (Mar 27, 2011)

Stahlsturm said:


> Yes and no. There are MANY bad Germans drivers these days, no doubt. What I was referring to was the insecurity you can almost touch of especially Dutch, Belgian and Danish drivers on a German Autobahn.
> I call it "small country syndrome" jokingly because I've never had a problem with a French or Italian plate driver. And yeah, I know I'm generalizing horribly, I don't mean to pass my personal roadside observations off as scientific


The Dutch are the worst, no other drivers line to go to the left lane so early, without checking mirrors, and thinking ''indicating=right of way''. If you're travelling at a nice pace ( eg. 170 on cruise) the main danger is these bloody NL plates pulling out without using mirrors. Extra caution required when the stereotypical city tin can is driving or (mini) mpv.

As for the ''silly high speeds'', I don't understand, even most compact family cars easily reach 190 km/h, any car that is designed for long distance travel ( large family cars or executive cars) will easily reach 200+ and stay comfortable until quite high speeds. 150 is in no way anywhere near ''fast'' imho, it's a relaxed cruise speed in my eyes. Fast we're talking 200+.


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

snowdog said:


> The Dutch are the worst, no other drivers line to go to the left lane so early, without checking mirrors, and thinking ''indicating=right of way''. If you're travelling at a nice pace ( eg. 170 on cruise) the main danger is these bloody NL plates pulling out without using mirrors. Extra caution required when the stereotypical city tin can is driving or (mini) mpv.
> 
> As for the ''silly high speeds'', I don't understand, even most compact family cars easily reach 190 km/h, any car that is designed for long distance travel ( large family cars or executive cars) will easily reach 200+ and stay comfortable until quite high speeds. 150 is in no way anywhere near ''fast'' imho, it's a relaxed cruise speed in my eyes. Fast we're talking 200+.


Your imho is going from one extreme to the other. The Dutch in Germany (and I drive in Germany a hell of a lot more than you do = practically every day) are not half as bad as some of the Germans. I find Poles, Czechs, Romanias etc etc far more dangerous in Germany, with their ongoing lane hogging, and I find the number of Poles driving in Germany who are now confident enough to road rage and aggressively under and overtake aggressively also quite alarming.

And if you're doing 170 on cruise, then you're even more deranged then I'd imagine you to be.


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## verreme (May 16, 2012)

I don't see what's wrong with doing 170 on cruise control, as long as you turn it off when approaching unclear traffic conditions.


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

verreme said:


> I don't see what's wrong with doing 170 on cruise control, as long as you turn it off when approaching unclear traffic conditions.


170 is not a safe speed for a lot of people, hence the speedlimits in all but one country, let alone doing it on cruise. As it may seem safe in France in the middle of the night, I would not recommend it doing it in Germany. Because that lorry or a dozy car is about to pull out in front of you, right as you have your right foot in a twist. I regularly do 160+ in Germany in my van. Self imposed limit on using my cruise control is a little over 130.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

Road_UK said:


> I find Poles, Czechs, Romanias etc etc far more dangerous in Germany, with their ongoing lane hogging


Lane hogging isn't dangerous though (other than irritating you).


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

It is dangerous. It causes aggression and undertaking. Just look at the type of messages that snowdog is posting, and with his attitude, I wouldn't trust him in a 10 kph milk float.


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## hofburg (Jun 27, 2009)

driving in Germany is stressful overall. it's only for good drivers, whether you drive fast or slow.


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

It'd be nice if Germany is a playground for only good drivers, but, unfortunately, it is not. Anyone with a valid drivers licence is entitled to drive in Germany.


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## Broccolli (May 30, 2010)

Lane hogging


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

Yes, lengthy lane hogging can be dangerous, I was thinking more of short-time lane hogging, because I'm not used to long lane hogging. But I don't find middle-lane hogging particularly dangerous (not much more than driving as such).


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## cinxxx (Oct 15, 2010)

In Germany it's annoying, when crazy drivers come on the left lane, so you can't overtake those middle lane hoggers so easy like in other countries 

From what I've seen here, most of the middle lane hoggers are women.


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## Wilhem275 (Apr 7, 2006)

Stahlsturm said:


> Yes and no. There are MANY bad Germans drivers these days, no doubt. What I was referring to was the insecurity you can almost touch of especially Dutch, Belgian and Danish drivers on a German Autobahn.
> I call it "small country syndrome" jokingly because I've never had a problem with a French or Italian plate driver. And yeah, I know I'm generalizing horribly, I don't mean to pass my personal roadside observations off as scientific


There could be a couple of practical reasons:
- those living in those countries are less used to internal long distance highway trips, so people have overall less experience at 130 (I'm making it a lot simpler than it is)
- northerners are more likely to stick to the rules, so drivers are probably less used to a lot of traffic >130, which is -or at least was- not uncommon in Italy (maybe France too, I don't know)

We're still far from scientific, but maybe a little less generalizing


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

Broccolli said:


> Lane hogging
> 
> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QQoz18Ci2Q">YouTube Link</a>


Thank you. I'll like your post as soon as I get to a desktop computer. (no like button on android version)


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## Broccolli (May 30, 2010)

Road_UK said:


> Thank you. I'll like your post as soon as I get to a desktop computer. (no like button on android version)


kay:


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## snowdog (Mar 27, 2011)

hofburg said:


> driving in Germany is stressful overall. it's only for good drivers, whether you drive fast or slow.


I disagree, don't have to watch your speedo as obsessively!
Don't have to slam your anchors for speedbumps and other rubbish every couple of minutes in town.

Only thing is look far ahead and watch your mirrors, it's a godsend to drive there compared to here.


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## Wilhem275 (Apr 7, 2006)

As usual: if you have to watch something obsessively or slam something frequently, there's something wrong in the way you drive...


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

snowdog said:


> I disagree, don't have to watch your speedo as obsessively!
> Don't have to slam your anchors for speedbumps and other rubbish every couple of minutes in town.
> 
> Only thing is look far ahead and watch your mirrors, it's a godsend to drive there compared to here.


You don't know Germany.


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## MichiH (Jan 5, 2013)

cinxxx said:


> From what I've seen here, most of the middle lane hoggers are women.


I monitored that some years ago: Based on my experience most of the middle lane hoggers are men aged between 30 and 50. I was very surprised!


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## Rail Claimore (Sep 11, 2002)

80 mph (129 km/h) is now permanent speed limit on most of Utah's rural interstates.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=24468933

And Nevada is considering going to 85 mph (137 km/h).

http://www.newsreview.com/reno/return-to-fast/content?oid=9546174

The trend in the US is to increase speed limits:

Ohio will go to 70 on all rural interstates later this year.
http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinna...4/ohio-speed-limit-signs-will-be-changed.html

Illinois looks set to do the same.
http://wqad.com/2013/04/01/illinois-considers-raising-speed-limit/

North Carolina is looking to go to 75 (would be the second state on the East Coast to go this high).
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=9060317


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## Metra (Apr 2, 2015)

Verso said:


> Czechia and Slovakia use a blue motorway sign, that's probably why they colored them blue, but direction signs are green.


Strange


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## ukraroad (Jul 18, 2015)

Signs just blue, green for better night view


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## Corvinus (Dec 8, 2010)

So a motorway between Dubai and Abu Dhabi, UAE has a 140 km/h speed limit, as can be seen in this dash cam video of 2014:










There were discussions in the UAE roads thread about the speed limits in that country, with limits as high as 160 km/h given for certain stretches; I welcome any photo proof.


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## verreme (May 16, 2012)

^^ I read somewhere that speed cameras in Dubai have a tolerance of 20 km/h, which would make the actual speed limit on that road 160 km/h. I've also read that this particular road (the one between Dubai and Abu Dhabi) had a 160 km/h speed limit; perhaps who wrote this referred to the threshold of speed cameras.

EDIT: Just after the big green sign there's a 120 km/h speed limit sign, so the 140 km/h one refers to the speed camera threshold. Weird.


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## Corvinus (Dec 8, 2010)

A total stretch of 276 km of the Stuart Highway in Northern Territory (AUS) will be permanently de-restricted, allowing motorists to choose their own speed. An new extension of 60 km will stretch the de-restricted zone to 336 km total.

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/nt-speed-limits-permanently-derestricted-20150903-gje7jc.html



> "The Territory has a unique road network with long distances between towns and low traffic volume. With the expansion of open speed limit zones, we are putting responsibility on motorists to drive to their own capabilities and to the conditions of the road," Transport minister Peter Chandler said.


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