# Everybody Hates Toronto, or My Trip Down the 401: Part I of IV



## kilgoretrout (Jan 19, 2005)

So I went to Toronto. I had a lot of fun. I took a lot of photos. You want to know more? Go jump in a lake!


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## Waterloo_Guy (Feb 12, 2006)

These are great. I can't wait for the rest.


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## ZZ-II (May 10, 2006)

"Everybody Hates Toronto", i love toronto


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## Clay_Rock (Jun 1, 2005)

Fantastic pictures of Toronto!


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## gappa (Mar 13, 2007)

I would but all our lakes are dry from the drought! I think I'll jump in lake Ontario when I'm there in a couple of weeks. Great pics!


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## zachus22 (Dec 4, 2006)

I see you're a big fan of the Asian districts, I don't blame you 

But thanks for the photo tour. No matter how old I get or how far away I may end up living, I'll never get sick of looking at pictures of my city.


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## James Saito (Nov 6, 2002)

What the hell is this thing? It's so surreal!!!


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## fox1 (Apr 27, 2003)

those are awesome, but do you just, like, take photos with some concealed bag or something?

I like how you got that Lost guy Fox on the CTV promo. He's Canadian, right?


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## marrio415 (Jun 18, 2006)

great set of pics hope for some more


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## HirakataShi (Feb 8, 2004)

>


Looks like the same shape of the Ontario College of Arts and Design they were building when I still lived in TO.


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## ROYU (Jul 19, 2004)

I love Toronto. One of the most multicultural cities around the globe.


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## neorion (May 26, 2006)

Fantastic pics, true to life.

Toronto world city!!!

Well done and :cheers:


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## Top Gear (Sep 19, 2005)

yep.. looks like toronto to me


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## Nouvellecosse (Jun 4, 2005)

Omg. They're walking down the street wearing stickers that say "top" and "bottom". 










Now I've seen everything. :scouserd: 

And of course, great pics as always. I'd love to hear more of what u think of TO.


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## streetscapeer (Apr 30, 2004)

wow what a great set... I love it when you're behind the camera.

and Toronto looks great, love the atmosphere.


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## thecarlost (Nov 6, 2005)

It's so diverse that you can hate it too, not just love it.

Have you ever stood right in any of the corners between Yonge St and Dundas, and wonder if this is the world's belly bottom?


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## francesco_val (May 24, 2007)

wow... I'd never thought this city would be so multicultural... Perhaps that's why Canada is one of the most inmigrant-friendly places in the world ^^ 










BTW, wtf is this?? :wtf: :lol: 
if u ever played 2nd life, you can imagine it's took from there :nuts:


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## I-275westcoastfl (Feb 15, 2005)

wow toronto looks like a great city, nice pics!!


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## nedolessej197 (Oct 24, 2006)

ugh toronto is so pretentious. nice pictures though.


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## kilgoretrout (Jan 19, 2005)

Thanks for the comments, everyone!



nedolessej197 said:


> ugh toronto is so pretentious. nice pictures though.


But... why? I find Toronto to be very comfortable and down-to-earth. In other words, exactly the opposite of pretentious.



francesco_val said:


> BTW, wtf is this??


That's the Ontario College of Art and Design (OCAD). An art school, in other words.


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## DrJoe (Sep 12, 2002)

great thread


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## Jaye101 (Feb 16, 2005)

Amazing.


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## Marco Polo (Oct 14, 2002)

Great photos!!


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## rousseau (Nov 4, 2005)

Okay, I think we've all waited long enough. Let's hear your judgment on Toronto, Mr. Kilgore. If you can turn it into a city vs. city comparison with Montreal, even better.

(I'd do it, but it isn't my thread.)


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## BuffCity (Jul 29, 2004)

great photos, you have captured life as it happens. Nice work!


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## south (Nov 26, 2005)

that's TO as i used to know it, thanks for the trip down memory lane.
you even included my old subway station (Ossington). ah...


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## yin_yang (May 29, 2006)

nedolessej197 said:


> ugh toronto is so pretentious. nice pictures though.


lived here for close to a decade, and would say that it's a mix of new york friendlyness and people that won't look you in the eye...so you're right and wrong, it's a two-headed lion...if we do give off the pretentious vibe, i would say we have a reason, especially recently. we know we live in a sweet city that many people want to immigrate to.


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## kilgoretrout (Jan 19, 2005)

rousseau said:


> Okay, I think we've all waited long enough. Let's hear your judgment on Toronto, Mr. Kilgore. If you can turn it into a city vs. city comparison with Montreal, even better.
> 
> (I'd do it, but it isn't my thread.)


Well, since you asked...

I'll say right away that I love Toronto. It's the only other city in Canada in which I could happily live. It's big, dynamic, diverse --- exactly the things I like in a city.

Toronto gets a lot of flak for its supposed ugliness. Although it's by no means a pretty city, I am very much drawn to its hodgepodge character and the layers of streetcar tracks, wires, posters, crumbling brick, crazy signage. It's more engaging than the kind of precious, overly gentrified cityscape you find in, say, central Boston.

My favourite part of the city was undoubtedly Chinatown, Kensington Market, Little Italy, the Annex and Koreatown --- that whole contiguous chunk of urbanity. I especially loved Spadina. People dismiss it as filthy but the blocks right around Dundas had the same kind of raw urban energy as working-class Hong Kong neighbourhoods like Sham Shui Po or places in Paris like the Goutte d'Or. Kensington, meanwhile, is serenely eclectic and multicultural. The corner of Baldwin and Augusta is probably my favourite spot in Toronto.

I also liked Yorkville. It is ridiculously yuppie (almost like a caricature!) but it is also very busy and intimately-scaled, like an alter-ego Kensington.

Another spot I really liked was Dundas Square. Despite the orgy of advertising (which I am certainly not opposed to on principle --- I just wish at least one of those video screens could be devoted to arts programming), I think it is a wonderful public space. Its works as a result of its simple and subtle design: whenever I passed by, whether at 1pm on a weekend afternoon or 1am on a weekday night, the square was full of people.

Yonge Street begs comparison with Ste. Catherine but, in my books, the latter wins easily: I find Yonge to be rather dull and underwhelming. Ste. Catherine is a more well-rounded street with more pedestrian traffic and a more imposing scale. It truly feels like the heart of Montreal whereas Yonge feels strangely marginal.

Generally speaking, Montreal's residential urban fabric is a lot more imposing than that of Toronto. The scale of the commercial streets, however, is similar.

Public transit is better in Toronto than it is in Montreal. The subway comes more often and is a much better ride. Buses are also more frequent. The streetcars are kind of unreliable --- there were several occasions when I waited 15-20 minutes for one that should have been coming every few minutes --- but are otherwise comfortable and efficient. They certainly have more of an emotional pull than buses. They also add a tremendous amount of sensory richness to the experience of Toronto's streets.

Somewhat to my surprise, I noticed more cyclists in Toronto than in Montreal. The circle-and-post bike racks were also ubiquitous and ingeniously simple; Montreal is only belatedly adopting this kind of design. Paradoxically, though, Montreal's recent improvements to its cycling infrastructure have been leaps and bounds ahead of Toronto: over the past couple of years the city has established wide, counterflow bike lanes, very prominent pro-cyclist signs and road markings and it has also eliminated car parking spots in favour of bicycle parking. The few bike lanes I saw in Toronto were almost comically narrow and poorly-indicated. Nonetheless, as I said before, there seemed to be more overall cyclists in Toronto --- and they also seemed like a more diverse bunch, especially around Chinatown, where there were lots of old men and women riding around on bikes.

Perhaps the biggest difference between the two cities is the expanse and diversity of Toronto's suburbs. Suburban Montreal is pretty much forgettable, but suburban Toronto is of the the more intriguing landscapes in Canada. One only needs to head to North York and pass by the strip malls packed with Korean and Persian businesses, or to the vast Chinese ethnoburb nearby, to understand this. 

All in all, I think Toronto and Montreal are more similar than dissimilar. Parochialism tends to exaggerate small differences so there are people who act as if the two cities are totally foreign. But, fundamentally, they are birds of a feather.


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## Nouvellecosse (Jun 4, 2005)

^ That sounds like a very fair assessment. And I too love the presence of streetcars in Toronto; they're one of my favourite aspects of the city, much like Montreal's stunning housing vernacular is my favourite aspect of that city.


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## brulemos (Feb 14, 2006)

The photos are great!
Do you have any picture of the peter street? Next year I'll go to toronto for english school, and the school is located there. It's the EF International Language Schools.


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## SpatulaCity (Mar 17, 2004)

brulemos, that school is located at the corner of Peter and Adelaide. This photo shows the scene across the street.


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## brulemos (Feb 14, 2006)

SpatulaCity said:


> brulemos, that school is located at the corner of Peter and Adelaide. This photo shows the scene across the street.


Great! Thanks!

But I don't see the school in the photo.
Do you have a front view picture of their building?


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## SpatulaCity (Mar 17, 2004)

no, I'm sorry I don't. The location is interesting... it's a large nightclub and entertainment area. You'll have fun!


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## brulemos (Feb 14, 2006)

SpatulaCity said:


> no, I'm sorry I don't. The location is interesting... it's a large nightclub and entertainment area. You'll have fun!


Thanks for the info... Can't wait for 2008!


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

rousseau said:


> Okay, I think we've all waited long enough. Let's hear your judgment on Toronto, Mr. Kilgore. If you can turn it into a city vs. city comparison with Montreal, even better.
> 
> (I'd do it, but it isn't my thread.)



Sorry it wasn't what you wanted to hear, rousseau! Kilgore is an intelligent and open minded person. 


Excellent picture thread, Kilgore.. you capture people scenes so naturally and beautifully... Bravo! :cheers:


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## algonquin (Sep 24, 2004)

KilgoreTrout does Toronto... I've died and gone to heaven.

Come back often!


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## lakeshore (Aug 17, 2006)

Great pictures. You make Toronto look somewhat different than usual.


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## rousseau (Nov 4, 2005)

Taller said:


> Sorry it wasn't what you wanted to hear, rousseau! Kilgore is an intelligent and open minded person.


Erm, I think Kilgore did precisely what I requested. As far as I can tell, anyway. I enjoyed reading it.

You seem to like taking cryptic shots at what I post lately, but I can't really understand why, or what you mean when you do. I pop in to this forum now and then to look at pretty pictures and glance at Canada-related threads, and now and then I post something, but I don't really keep up with what's happening with the various personalities here. I must have posted something at one time that you found objectionable. I'm glad it has contributed to continued amusement for you!


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

^^ Excellent news. You said you would like this to become a Montreal vs Toronto thread,
and I am happy it did not! 
pm me if you have more questions !


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## DzD1358 (Apr 24, 2007)

Great pics! Keep going man!:cheers:


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## KGB (Sep 12, 2002)

> But... why? I find Toronto to be very comfortable and down-to-earth. In other words, exactly the opposite of pretentious.



Yea, that comment was way out in left field, and obviously not motivated by this pictoral thread, as the content was decidedly not pretentious, and even more obviously...not the "look" you were going for when choosing subject matter.

Overall, the photos are nice, but I must say, generally fail to authentically portray the areas where they were taken. They tend to feel like a "tourist's" perspective, rather than a "local" one. They are all "easy" neighbourhoods to take those kind of pictures...almost "cliche Toronto". As a local, I tend to be more interested in nabes where tourists are not likely to be aware of, and are as, if not more "interesting", if that's the right word.

Hey...don't take this as anything other than a local's tough critic...aren't we always the hardest to please? Still, as photo tours go, I've seen a hell of a lot worse, and at least your subject interest is in the right direction. 

One photo stands out heads and tails above the rest...it's very good............














KGB


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## Holland (Mar 2, 2006)

I felt this was a brilliant photo tour. I really enjoyed it. Thanks for showing us Toronto from your perspective!


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## rousseau (Nov 4, 2005)

Upon further reflection, I'd have to agree that Mr. Trout's photos of Toronto are inauthentic, easy and almost cliched. They are clearly not taken from a local perspective. 

Tourists may find certain areas of Toronto interesting, but locals tend to be more interested in neighbourhoods that tourists are not likely to be aware of.

Still, I've seen a hell of a lot worse.


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## 3hrs (Jun 1, 2007)

^^

Wow, you guys are awfully harsh. I enjoyed the pictures.


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## AEK (Jul 14, 2007)

I didn't expect this city to look like this. it like a shithole.


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## You are to blame (Oct 14, 2004)

LOL, there is something so homoerotic about this pic.


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## softee (Mar 6, 2003)

Absolutely wonderful.


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

AEK said:


> I didn't expect this city to look like this. it like a shithole.


it is called real life, AEK. You have some of that in Greece, too, in case you haven't noticed! :lol:



3hrs said:


> ^^
> 
> Wow, you guys are awfully harsh. I enjoyed the pictures.


It is just rousseau... he is a bit on the bitter side. 
These photos are amazing, despite the kvetching by a few.!


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

Nice photo thread...I always loved the embrace of multiculturalism in Toronto and other cities.


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## mr.x (Jul 30, 2004)

Nouvellecosse said:


> Omg. They're walking down the street wearing stickers that say "top" and "bottom".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL....best picture!


thanks for posting, i love your photography.


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## pwright1 (Jun 1, 2003)

Amazing pics. People have their opinions but I absolutely love it. Some of the best of everyday life in Toronto.


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## Tombs (Sep 9, 2007)

Toronto looks awesome!!

Absolutely amazing pics, you've made me want to visit there even more now. Excellent job with the photography and capturing the atmosphere on the street too.

Toronto seems to have that "beautiful ugliness" to it that cities such as London and Tokyo also share. I love that! Proper world cities aren't supposed to be all pretty and perfect, they should be as gritty and eclectic as the world they represent.

---


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## SpatulaCity (Mar 17, 2004)

I tend to agree with KGB and rousseau. I often find Kilgore's photos very cliche-rich in general (as I pointed out on SSP... I'm "shappy" on that board). But there is room for everything and as far as I'm concerned these are excellent in that regard.

There is an article floating around on the Toronto subforum about the "beautiful ugliness" that weaves its way through the city's streets. It's a good read and a fitting companion to this photo thread.


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## AEK (Jul 14, 2007)

pwright1 said:


> Amazing pics. People have their opinions but I absolutely love it. Some of the best of everyday life in Toronto.


Are u being serious?


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## rousseau (Nov 4, 2005)

Taller said:


> iIt is just rousseau... he is a bit on the bitter side.


Know anything about deadpan sarcasm? I was taking the piss out of KGB.


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## Taylorhoge (Feb 5, 2006)

cool pics reminds me a little bit of New York except a little colder and snowier in the winter


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Tombs said:


> Toronto looks awesome!!
> 
> Toronto seems to have that "beautiful ugliness" to it that cities such as London and Tokyo also share. I love that! Proper world cities aren't supposed to be all pretty and perfect, they should be as gritty and eclectic as the world they represent.
> 
> ---


Well put. Many people get turned off by gritty and want everything to be sterile and shiny like a new hospital. Toronto might not win beauty contests, but it definitely has that "beautiful ugliness" that other truly global cities have. 

Toronto is a very real place. It's doesn't come sugar coated, but displays everything from grit and quirkiness, to urban sophistication and opulence. This is what makes cities vibrant and interesting. Who wants a city to look like a generic shopping mall? Not me. If Toronto looked perfect from one end to the other, I'd die of boredom.


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## Canuck514 (Oct 12, 2007)

AEK said:


> Are u being serious?


What about you? Are you being serious?

Toronto is a fantastically vibrant and clean city. You may think it is a 'shithole' but I like to think of it as 'lived in'. Besides, if you have nothing nice to say then shut the hell up! You are only here to be a jackass. We understood the first time you dissed the city. Thanks, but now [email protected]# OFF!


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

just ignore him.. it was an ignorant comment for AEK to make.


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## philadweller (Oct 30, 2003)

Somebody from California is calling Toronto pretentious. That is too funny.

Great Photos CD. 

I was just in Chicago two weeks ago and realized how insanely Midwestern it felt compared to Philadelphia, New York and Boston. I am getting that sense from your photos of Toronto. I have been to Toronto numerous times but not like this through your fantastic eye.

Montreal is similar to a "Northeastern US" city and Toronto is somewhat "Midwestern." I am not really sure why but I think it has to do with being more "down to earth" and comfortable. The other dead giveaway is the classic gabled roof facing the street. 
Chicago has that down to a science.


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## philadweller (Oct 30, 2003)

"cool pics reminds me a little bit of New York except a little colder and snowier in the winter"

Nothing about Toronto reminds me of New York, absolutely nothing. The scale, styles and texture are so different. They are both large cities that speak English that's about it. Toronto is Midwestern.


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

^^ don't agree, philadweller. There are parts that remind me very much of NYC (downtown central business centre, Kensington Market, Chinatown, Greektown, Little Italy, etc... The biggest similarity is that both NYC and Toronto's downtowns are composed of many varied "villages".. even the gay village is in a way similar to Christopher Street/Greenwich Village, and Queen West is a lot like SoHo or Tribeca. But overall the city is more like Chicago. To me it is a bit of a cross between East Coast and Midwestern. Next time you are in town let me know and I will show you around a bit! :cheers:


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## softee (Mar 6, 2003)

Toronto is in Canada, therefore it is not "Midwestern".


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

no, he means Midwestern style of American cities. We know that Toronto is not in the American midwest! LOL!


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## SpatulaCity (Mar 17, 2004)

There are some similarities to Midwestern cities but overall that is a gross oversimplification. Toronto evolved as a British-type city. Somewhat similar to Melbourne and Sydney. The core neighbourhoods are Victorian and intimately scaled and the outer parts are very similar to European suburbs (i.e. slab apartments buildings for miles around). Take a look at the outskirts of London or Paris to see what I mean.

There is also a Canadian "freshness" that is very Toronto.


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## Darryl (Jan 14, 2007)

There are Asians in like 95%+ of these pics. Why? Did you plan that just to show that Toronto is diverse? Or do you just not like to take pictures of white people? :lol:


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

SpatulaCity said:


> There are some similarities to Midwestern cities but overall that is a gross oversimplification. Toronto evolved as a British-type city. Somewhat similar to Melbourne and Sydney. The core neighbourhoods are Victorian and intimately scaled and the outer parts are very similar to European suburbs (i.e. slab apartments buildings for miles around). Take a look at the outskirts of London or Paris to see what I mean.
> 
> There is also a Canadian "freshness" that is very Toronto.


I don't think the intent was to say the cities are identical. Obviously there was more British influence in our 19th century architecture.. but in all honesty, anyone who has visited Chicago and Toronto has noticed the similarities. And there are similarities to New York, as well. We are neighbours on the same continent, so it is not surprising.



Darryl said:


> There are Asians in like 95%+ of these pics. Why? Did you plan that just to show that Toronto is diverse? Or do you just not like to take pictures of white people? :lol:


There is quite a different ethnic mix here than in Baltimore, Darryl... you will notice it when you come visit us! We are very close! :cheers:
ps and maybe that is an interest of Kilgore.. who knows. We all take photographs for personal reasons.


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## Coral Builder (May 25, 2007)

I agree with Philadweller, there is a definite midwestern feel to Toronto. East Coast cities like New York are built up more and not out (older means less cars, more density). Toronto is younger, only really reaching maturity 40 years ago. New York, Philly, Boston, Wash., these cities reached maturity in a different time, and therefore have the density to reflect it. Other then it's central core, which is quite beautiful, Toronto stretches to the horizon in endless suburbs. It has amongst the lowest population densities of any major city in North America. In contrast, New York has one of the highest. I think that is Philadweller's point.


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

Coral Builder said:


> I agree with Philadweller, there is a definite midwestern feel to Toronto. East Coast cities like New York are built up more and not out (older means less cars, more density). Toronto is younger, only really reaching maturity 40 years ago. New York, Philly, Boston, Wash., these cities reached maturity in a different time, and therefore have the density to reflect it. Other then it's central core, which is quite beautiful, Toronto stretches to the horizon in endless suburbs.* It has amongst the lowest population densities of any major city in North America.* In contrast, New York has one of the highest. I think that is Philadweller's point.



Coral Builder, with all due respect, this is completely untrue, and I have absolutely no idea where you got that idea. I won't get into this density issue as it has been flogged to death in many other threads, but suffice to say it is not true. As a simple example they are denser than any other Canadian city. You may have been fooled by the size of them, but bear in mind the metropolitan city is nearly 6 million people. 
I don't really think _anyone_ is denying that Toronto is more like Chicago than New York.. that is not the issue. All I have been saying is there are areas in downtown Toronto that are similar to New York. Maybe a casual visitor who does not know the city might not have seen them, but honestly to have stood at King and Bay and not noticed a similarity to Manhattan would require carrying a white cane! Also it is nearly impossible to not notice a similarity between the two cities with the villages as I mentioned earlier! But by and large Toronto and Chicago are alike in many ways.
A city like Montreal is more like Boston or Philly than either Chicago or New York, with the exception of 
one street.. the old St James Street (now rue St Jacques) which is quite New York.


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## rousseau (Nov 4, 2005)

SpatulaCity said:


> There are some similarities to Midwestern cities but overall that is a gross oversimplification. Toronto evolved as a British-type city. Somewhat similar to Melbourne and Sydney. The core neighbourhoods are Victorian and intimately scaled and the outer parts are very similar to European suburbs (i.e. slab apartments buildings for miles around). Take a look at the outskirts of London or Paris to see what I mean.
> 
> There is also a Canadian "freshness" that is very Toronto.


This is the best description I've heard so far. Toronto is not "midwestern" in the slightest (ever been to Detroit?). Quite frankly, apart from a few canyon streetscapes in the business district and the fact that Toronto is beside a lake, I don't get the comparisons to Chicago at all, either--the two cities are as different as night and day in virtually every aspect of the built environment that you care to mention. 

I would add that many of the commercial streets in Toronto are very London-esque, especially the ones with a single storey above the shopfronts. The main difference, of course, is that Toronto is a grid, and in London the willy-nilly streets appear to have been laid out in a drunken stupor.

And comparing the built environment of Toronto to New York is just crazy talk.


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

_"And comparing the built environment of Toronto to New York is just crazy talk_".

Well...I think it is just one of those things that either you "see it"... or you don't, but this is a picture thread, not another "Which City is Toronto Most Similar To" (which tend to get very boring as they are usually based on preconceptions), so I propose we let the matter drop and let it get back to Kilgore's fine photos.


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## rousseau (Nov 4, 2005)

Taller said:


> ...but this is a picture thread, not another "Which City is Toronto Most Similar To", so I propose we let the matter drop and let it get back to Kilgore's fine photos.


Jesus...how about you give the hall monitor/schoolmarm act a rest, already? Who cares if Kilgore's fine photos inspire a heated discussion about Toronto's geographical classification? It could be interesting.


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## monkeyronin (May 18, 2006)

Darryl said:


> There are Asians in like 95%+ of these pics. Why? Did you plan that just to show that Toronto is diverse? Or do you just not like to take pictures of white people? :lol:


Its a little thing we have called "multiculturalism" where many people of different ethnicities can be found sharing the same space. And uhh, there are plenty of pictures of white people, they are just mixed in with asians and blacks. Not everywhere has the segregation issues of certain cities which shall remain nameless.




Coral Builder said:


> Toronto stretches to the horizon in endless suburbs. It has amongst the lowest population densities of any major city in North America. In contrast, New York has one of the highest. I think that is Philadweller's point.


Lowest densities? LOL, where do you get this? In terms of density based on arbitrary political boundaries, Toronto has 4,000/sqkm, basically placing it in a mid density area. However, in terms of overall urban density, Toronto and Los Angeles both have over 2,700 people/sqkm...highest in North America. For comparison, New York has about 2,500/sqkm and Montreal 1,900.




Coral Builder said:


> East Coast cities like New York are built up more and not out (older means less cars, more density). Toronto is younger, only really reaching maturity 40 years ago. New York, Philly, Boston, Wash., these cities reached maturity in a different time, and therefore have the density to reflect it.


No doubt it is younger, but save for New York, is denser than all those other east coast cities and has _less_ cars (or at least, higher transit usage).


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

rousseau said:


> Jesus...how about you give the hall monitor/schoolmarm act a rest, already? Who cares if Kilgore's fine photos inspire a heated discussion about Toronto's geographical classification? It could be interesting.


It could be interesting... if it hadn't been done about a trillion times already with the same result every time. Any mention of the slightest similarities between Toronto and NYC always brings out the same argy-bargies. They get a bit dull after awhile. Like I say, either you see it, or you don't. If that strikes you as schoolmarmish, then so be it!


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## softee (Mar 6, 2003)

SpatulaCity said:


> There are some similarities to Midwestern cities but overall that is a gross oversimplification. Toronto evolved as a British-type city. Somewhat similar to Melbourne and Sydney. The core neighbourhoods are Victorian and intimately scaled and the outer parts are very similar to European suburbs (i.e. slab apartments buildings for miles around). Take a look at the outskirts of London or Paris to see what I mean.
> 
> There is also a Canadian "freshness" that is very Toronto.


Yes, that's why I said that since Toronto is in Canada it is therefore not "Midwestern" in an American sense. As far as the comment stating that Toronto's endless suburbs are among the least dense of any major North American city... wow... the truth is pretty much the complete opposite of that - Toronto's urban region is among the densest of any major city in North America.


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## Darryl (Jan 14, 2007)

monkeyronin said:


> Its a little thing we have called "multiculturalism" where many people of different ethnicities can be found sharing the same space. And uhh, there are plenty of pictures of white people, they are just mixed in with asians and blacks. Not everywhere has the segregation issues of certain cities which shall remain nameless.


That little thing called "multiculturalism" is something quite familiar to me, thanks. Baltimore has it as well (shock!). In fact I could take 50 pics of Baltimore and portray it as a practically asian city, or black city, or hispanic city, as well depending on where I strategically pointed my camera. This thread looks like a little bit of strategic camera pointing was going on. I've been to Toronto, and I don't remember it being 90% Asian.

I only meant the comment lightheartedly. It wasn't meant to be racist or anything, so I hope no one took it that way. If you did, well you're sorely mistaken. I just truly was interested if Asian people are of particular interest to him/her. Thats all. From the pics, it seemed that way.


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## monkeyronin (May 18, 2006)

Darryl said:


> That little thing called "multiculturalism" is something quite familiar to me, thanks. Baltimore has it as well (shock!). In fact I could take 50 pics of Baltimore and portray it as a practically asian city, or black city, or hispanic city, as well depending on where I strategically pointed my camera. This thread looks like a little bit of strategic camera pointing was going on. I've been to Toronto, and I don't remember it being 90% Asian.


...And these pictures don't portray it as "90% Asian". I'm not going to go count, but I see plenty of people from all over. However, Asian people do represent a large portion of Toronto's population, and even moreso in many of the areas depicted in this thread (chinatown being one of them).


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## Coral Builder (May 25, 2007)

Taller, Better and others. Some statistics to set the record straight.
Densities of Cities under discussion:
1. New York = 10,194/km2
2. Chicago = 4,923.0/km2
3. Boston = 4,815.3/km2
4. Montreal = 4,439/km2
5. Philly = 4,337.3/km2
6. Toronto = 3,972/km2 (not GTA, just central Toronto)
7. Washington, D.C. = 3,481/km2
8. LA = 3,168/km2
9. Detroit = 2,647/km2
10. Cleveland = 2,380.9/km2
11. St. Louis = 2,207.1/km2

So, Toronto is one of the lower density major cities in North America (the other notable one is LA), and is especially so when compared to east coast cities, especially New York. Chill out.. it's still a nice place, just not so crowded.


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

You are mistaken, coral. Sorry, I don't have the energy to dissect it all as I have said earlier it has been discussed ad nauseum in other "density" threads. I do think this is all detracting from the picture thread, even if that appears "hall monitor"-esque to some.


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## monkeyronin (May 18, 2006)

Coral Builder said:


> Taller, Better and others. Some statistics to set the record straight.
> Densities of Cities under discussion:
> 1. New York = 10,194/km2
> 2. Chicago = 4,923.0/km2
> ...


As I said earlier, those are based on the arbitrary political boundaries of the city. Just compare, say Boston with Toronto. It has less than 15% of the total metro population in it's city, compared to over 40% in TO. In this case, a more accurate comparison would be to look at Toronto's inner city (the city pre-amalgamation), which has 700,000 people living in 97sqkm (over 7,000/sqkm).

However, this is all apples/oranges shit. A better way to compare is based on the total urbanized areas. I don't have the US stats handy, but here are the Canadian ones:










http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06/data/popdwell/Table.cfm?T=801&PR=0&SR=1&S=3&O=D

So much for "endless suburbs", huh?


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