# RUSSIA - FIFA World Cup 2018 / 2022 bid



## aaronaugi1 (Apr 23, 2008)

poxuy said:


> *Average temperatures in June (°C)*
> 
> (because someone still don't know that it's not cold everywhere and everytime in Russia LOL)
> 
> ...


Bit of an unfair comparison. Canberra is not an accurate representation of Australia's weather at that time of the year...even though it is the middle of winter.


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## poxuy (Apr 27, 2008)

aaronaugi1 said:


> Bit of an unfair comparison. Canberra is not an accurate representation of Australia's weather at that time of the year...even though it is the middle of winter.


If Australia would host WC, it would be in june or when?


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## poxuy (Apr 27, 2008)

> *Race for 2018 World Cup is still too early to call, claims Russian bid leader*
> 
> February 1 - It is too early to evaluate the strength of the candidates who want to host the 2018 World Cup, the head of Russia's bid Alexey Sorokin has claimed.
> 
> ...


http://www.insideworldfootball.biz/...-russian-bid-leader&catid=70:russia&Itemid=83


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## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

> poxuy Quote:
> 
> _Originally Posted by aaronaugi1
> Bit of an unfair comparison. Canberra is not an accurate representation of Australia's weather at that time of the year...even though it is the middle of winter. _
> ...


All he meant was that you couldn't have picked a colder Australian city that would host games in a successful Australian Bid. The Australian coastal Cities will be around 14 to 19 in June (the Queensland cities of Brisbane and Townsville even warmer), so our winter is almost as warm as your summer.


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## vony91 (Feb 2, 2010)

The stadiums will certainly be nice.


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## poxuy (Apr 27, 2008)

> *BID AMBASSADOR ALEXEY SMERTIN APPOINTED SPORTS DIRECTOR*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://russia2018-2022.com/en/news--events/news/2022010-smeritin.aspx


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## kerouac1848 (Jun 9, 2009)

> The Australian coastal Cities will be around 14 to 19 in June (the Queensland cities of Brisbane and Townsville even warmer), so our winter is almost as warm as your summer.


I think those figures are averages (kind of pointless really) rather than average highs (which is what yours seem like when looking at Sydney's June figure). Lisbon's and Moscow's average high in June are about 26c and 22c respectively, so a fair amount higher than Melbourne and Sydney (14c and 16c according to the BBC).

Still great weather for winter though!


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## poxuy (Apr 27, 2008)

Some of WC Bid Ambassadors played today in Moscow, on "Cup of Legends" (Day 1st).

Ronald de Boer:










Alexey Smertin:










+ Ruud Gullit as Holland's coach.


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## rus (Nov 20, 2009)

Site "Cup of Legends"
http://www.legendscup.ru/en/

Here video of matches of a cup
http://goal-online.ru/news/1-0-2


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## Oceano (Feb 7, 2010)

Some well-known crazy ukrainian moderator banned me (maybe he don't want me to post news about bid and stadiums) with "No reason was specified.", so I will write here under new profile  .


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## Oceano (Feb 7, 2010)




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## Oceano (Feb 7, 2010)

> *Soccerex welcomes Russian bid to the European Forum*
> 
> Soccerex is delighted to confirm that the Russia 2018/2022 FIFA World Cup™ Bid Committee will take a significant presence at the Soccerex European Forum in Manchester from 2-3 March.
> 
> ...


http://russia2018-2022.com/en/news--events/news/17022010-soccerex-.aspx


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## Richo83 (Nov 19, 2008)

poxuy said:


> *Average temperatures in June (°C)*
> 
> (because someone still don't know that it's not cold everywhere and everytime in Russia LOL)
> 
> ...


Given the fact that in June it's winter in Canberra and the fact that Canberra is one of the coldest major cities in Australia, a) I don't understand the relevance of comparing winter temps to summer temps and b) it doesn't really say much that you have to use one of the coldest Australian cities in winter to prove your argument. Regardless, I doubt Canberra would ever host a world cup match anyway. And given that many Australian cities are on average warmer in winter (16? lol) than Russian cities in summer, climate sure isn't your strong suit.


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## Oceano (Feb 7, 2010)

i just wrote t in capitals of other pretendents, nothing more. I know that it's winter in Australia, but WHEN Australia is planning to host WC? In june? Or in the summer, which is winter in majority of other countries?


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## Richo83 (Nov 19, 2008)

poxuy said:


> If Australia would host WC, it would be in june or when?


It wouldn't be in Canberra for starters, I feel Russian audiences are distorting facts, Canberra ties with Hobart for Australia's coldest major city in winter.

Why don't we look at some other places likely to host matches (because Canberra wont):

Average highs in June

Brisbane: 21.3
Gold Coast 21.1
Townsville 25.6
Newcastle 17.5
Perth 19.3

Some unimpressive numbers:

Sydney 16.3
Adelaide 16.1
Melbourne 14

Canberra is actually 12.2 in June, not 9 point whatever. Still it's a cold spot not to mention a dump and AFC would do well to steer the world away from Canberra.

I doubt Canberra would host matches, Canberra is behind Perth, Adelaide, Townsville, Gold Coast, Melbourne, Newcastle, Brisbane and Sydney amongst other places.

Regardless, mid teens isn't an indication that Russia isn't cold all the time, it's indication it has a really weak summer. At night time when alot of matches are played, it'd sure feel like winter. I think if temperatures are a concern then US is a good choice as it has stadiums in places which actually do have proper summers. Like Florida, California, Texas even NY has a decent summer.


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## SuCumaethor (Sep 10, 2009)

^^ I don't know why are you so insulted. He mentioned few cities, one of those was Madrid. No one thinks Madrid has "weak summer".

And yea in Russia during summer days are nice and warm and then at night snow and ice cowers all the land... :bash:


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## Richo83 (Nov 19, 2008)

SuCumaethor said:


> ^^ I don't know why are you so insulted. He mentioned few cities, one of those was Madrid. No one thinks Madrid has "weak summer".


I didn't say that, although Spain as a whole is alot warmer than Russia.

I mean I'm not insulted I just find each country has it's figures which it distorts to make it look better so you get these national e-***** battle threads. Russia's climate is probably one of it's drawbacks, whenever its held competitions they've been in Moscow where in a big city it's not such a problem. It's just there was a little ignorance from Russians on Australia, Canberra wont host any matches in a world cup IMO and it will be alot warmer in other places.



SuCumaethor said:


> And yea in Russia during summer days are nice and warm and then at night snow and ice cowers all the land... :bash:


Your nights are cold, even in summer. My uncle who has lived in Moscow said even in summer nights can get very cold.


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## rus (Nov 20, 2009)

Richo83
And we have bears walking the streets. Ask your uncle)))
Summer in Russia is very hot, even in Siberia more than 30. You're more likely to freeze to death in South Africa this summer.


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## Gran Kanarya (May 11, 2008)

in my opinion Russia is one of the few countries that deserves to host the WC for several different reasons, it looks like a nice strong bid as well, Good Luck Russia.


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## Richo83 (Nov 19, 2008)

rus said:


> Richo83
> And we have bears walking the streets. Ask your uncle)))
> Summer in Russia is very hot, even in Siberia more than 30. You're more likely to freeze to death in South Africa this summer.


Freeze to death in SA? Sure. :lol: 

@ Gran:

England will get the 2018 world cup (or at least should, it'd be highway robbery if they didn't get at least one of the two world cups on offer) would FIFA be willing to host two world cups in a row? If so, Spain seems a better bet, they have good facilities and by 2022 it would be 40 years for a giant of world football to host it. If not, China which is a growing market seems more apt. Russia? Not sure. It's ahead of Qatar, SK, Japan, Indonesia, comparable to Australia, China, Benelux and US and behind Spain/Portugal and far behind England. It has some good points and bad points like Australia, China, Benelux and US. I'd probably rank it the 4th best bid behind England, Spain/Portugal and Benelux. The US hosted the world cup recently and I'd say China and Australia's facilities are behind Russia's (although China offers a massive market, if you get Chinese football in the game then :banana: for FIFA).

England is surely a monty for the 2018 world cup. Plenty of stadiums of sufficient size and standard, a deep football culture, immediate appeal to European/African/American markets and haven't hosted it since 66 even though they invented the sport. This puts other European bids in a tough spot.


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## kerouac1848 (Jun 9, 2009)

> Canberra is actually 12.2 in June, not 9 point whatever. Still it's a cold spot not to mention a dump and AFC would do well to steer the world away from Canberra.
> 
> I doubt Canberra would host matches, Canberra is behind Perth, Adelaide, Townsville, Gold Coast, Melbourne, Newcastle, Brisbane and Sydney amongst other places.


If you looked up a little you'll see I wrote earlier that he/she is comparing average temps not average highs, hence why 9c is the figure. Averages are pretty pointless, but that is what was compared. 

I wouldn't be too sure Canberra won't host any matches. It is the nation's capital (and therefore contains many important social and cultural monuments), one of the 10 largest cities (7th?), is in a good geographical spot close between Australia's major cities, and has a decent sporting heritage. 


> Regardless, mid teens isn't an indication that Russia isn't cold all the time, it's indication it has a really weak summer. At night time when alot of matches are played, it'd sure feel like winter. I think if temperatures are a concern then US is a good choice as it has stadiums in places which actually do have proper summers. Like Florida, California, Texas even NY has a decent summer.


I'm pretty sure cities like Moscow get temps well into the high 20s quite frequently, plus due to latitude many Russian cities don't get dark in summer until after 10pm. 

Historical averages are becoming less useful due to the fact that the past 20 years have been so much warmer than the previous 50 (the data is therefore skewed). Remember Germany in 2006? Everyone thought we'd get a nice temperate tournament, yet it barley went below 30c during the day.

Anyway, hot weather is terrible for football as it makes the game slow and sluggish (way do you think it is a winter sport in most countries?). Those US states don't have 'decent' summers for football; they have terribly hot and humid ones. South Africa this year should therefore benefit with a daytime range of between 14-25c.


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## Richo83 (Nov 19, 2008)

kerouac1848 said:


> I wouldn't be too sure Canberra won't host any matches. It is the nation's capital (and therefore contains many important social and cultural monuments),


I'm not sure if you're a foreigner but if you are you should realise that Australians and Australian sporting organizations give little credit to Canberra's standing of being a capital and having "cultural monuments" (Melbourne and Sydney contain more). It's only major football sporting clubs are rugby affiliated which means nothing in this context.



kerouac1848 said:


> one of the 10 largest cities (7th?), is in a good geographical spot close between Australia's major cities, and has a decent sporting heritage.


Actually, Canberra is situated in nowhere, at least Sydney is close to Newcastle and Brisbane is near GC, Canberra is in the middle of nowhere. And as for sporting heritage, Canberra is where Australian sporting clubs go to die. Interesting that the a-league (Australia's highest football league) has no sporting club in Canberra and has felt not the need nor the ability to have a team in Canberra. 

Hot weather is good for fans though, and Russia is not exactly a desert anyway, so it's hardly a problem. Look I think Russia have a good bid but weather is not a good selling point. It's European status, a growing market, a football culture and decent infrastructure are good selling points. Russia should play to it's strengths.


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## kerouac1848 (Jun 9, 2009)

> I'm not sure if you're a foreigner but if you are you should realise that Australians and Australian sporting organizations give little credit to Canberra's standing of being a capital and having "cultural monuments" (Melbourne and Sydney contain more). It's only major football sporting clubs are rugby affiliated which means nothing in this context.


No I'm not Australian, but my sister has been living there for years, including Canberra for the past 10 months, so I do at least know that it has a bit of a rep as a dull place. I don't think the rugby issue is that big tbh. Football is a relatively minor sport in Australia as of now, so most stadiums are going to primarily be either Rugby or Rules affiliated. Even in SA, a nation where football is a bigger sport than in Australia, most stadia belong to rugby teams it seems. Hopefully the A-League will continue to grow but I doubt it will join the big four team sports by then (could be wrong of course).



> Actually, Canberra is situated in nowhere, at least Sydney is close to Newcastle and Brisbane is near GC, Canberra is in the middle of nowhere. And as for sporting heritage, Canberra is where Australian sporting clubs go to die. Interesting that the a-league (Australia's highest football league) has no sporting club in Canberra and has felt not the need nor the ability to have a team in Canberra.


Given the geographical size of Australia I hardly say it is nowhere. It is less than 200 and 450 miles from Sydney and Melbourne respectively, nothing in an Australian context really and comfortably a days travel by road (My sister said it is about 9 hrs by bus to Melbourne from Canberra. If she is right, that is less than it took me to get to Glasgow from London by bus [11hrs]). Compare that to Darwin or Perth, which are thousands of miles away from Australia's main population centre. 

Anyway, I didn't mean to suggest that Canberra will or should be a host city, merely pointing out that it has at least an ok chance (not a good or likely, but not zero either). Given that FIFA want - iirc - a minimum of 11 host cities and Australia is a small nation in population terms (it would be the smallest country to host a WC since Chile way back in 1962 and is the smallest bid), i think it is in with a, unlikely, shout for a venue spot.


> Hot weather is good for fans though, and Russia is not exactly a desert anyway, so it's hardly a problem. Look I think Russia have a good bid but weather is not a good selling point. It's European status, a growing market, a football culture and decent infrastructure are good selling points. Russia should play to it's strengths.



I see what you're saying, but surely most people sitting in the summer sun for 2 hrs would prefer temps between 24-28c with little humidity to the 32c+ humid climate you get in most of the US (I have spent time working there and some places like Miami and even NYC on some days [try catching the subway when it feels like 45c on the platform!] can get uncomfortably hot and humid if you have to actually stay in the heat without moving. And I like the heat). 

You always here that the Middle East, North Africa and other such places are out of bounds for the WC because it is too hot, yet many parts of the US (especially if you factor in the humidity) can cook you just as well.

I dunno, I just think that Russia could put a spin on it by claiming their 'comfortable' climate, which is also dry (dig at England). I also don't think most cities (St. Petersburg perhaps as an exception) will even be that cool.


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## Richo83 (Nov 19, 2008)

Good post.

The problem with Canberra having only a rugby side isn't that FIFA and FFA are fussed by using rugby stadiums (you're right, they aren't and wont be) its that FFA haven't placed a soccer team in Canberra and having matches there would do nothing for the game since it's not where they think they can or will grow the sport. Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne, Townsville, GC, Brisbane, Newcastle, Sydney and Melbourne are where soccer teams lie in Australia and it's a not too subtle statement about FFA's fears about the viability of a soccer team being placed in Australia.

Darwin is in the middle of nowhere, you're right, it's a good thing we're not trying to have stadiums everywhere but keep them in the SE area. Canberra's placement isn't great, Canberra for instance doesn't handle int travel, so it's a problem destination for foreigners.

Anyways back to Russia (which isn't exactly pint sized itself!) I dearly hope they build the Spartak stadium which looks magnificent and I hope they choose the new Kazan plan (which is very good) than the former one which needed to be a little more rectangular (at the moment it looks like a tyre with chains). I think this thread needs more of the other proposals too.


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## kerouac1848 (Jun 9, 2009)

> Good post.
> 
> The problem with Canberra having only a rugby side isn't that FIFA and FFA are fussed by using rugby stadiums (you're right, they aren't and wont be) its that FFA haven't placed a soccer team in Canberra and having matches there would do nothing for the game since it's not where they think they can or will grow the sport. Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne, Townsville, GC, Brisbane, Newcastle, Sydney and Melbourne are where soccer teams lie in Australia and it's a not too subtle statement about FFA's fears about the viability of a soccer team being placed in Australia.
> 
> Darwin is in the middle of nowhere, you're right, it's a good thing we're not trying to have stadiums everywhere but keep them in the SE area. Canberra's placement isn't great, Canberra for instance doesn't handle int travel, so it's a problem destination for foreigners.


Cheers.

Those 9 cities you named seen to be guaranteed a WC spot if Oz gets it. But assuming there will be 11 cities, what would the other 2 be? I just think Canberra has a decent chance fighting it out for those final 1 or 2 spots. 



> Anyways back to Russia (which isn't exactly pint sized itself!) I dearly hope they build the Spartak stadium which looks magnificent and I hope they choose the new Kazan plan (which is very good) than the former one which needed to be a little more rectangular (at the moment it looks like a tyre with chains). I think this thread needs more of the other proposals too.


Russia is doing the right thing (IMO) by having venues in only the Western quarter of the country. They'll be less distance between cities than in Brazil 2014 or in the US's bid. I've always thought Russia should play on their strengths as a Eurasian country (which is what is to me, not European or Asian). Matches will have a good time zone for both continents (a few hrs ahead of CET and, I think, 3/4 hours behind China in the Eastern most cities), and it should be easy for fans to get to the country.


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## Oceano (Feb 7, 2010)

> *2010 Soccerex European Forum*
> 
> Representatives from 217 football clubs and 10 leagues attended the Soccerex European Forum. Also present were 2018/2022 World Cup bid teams from England, Japan, Qatar, Russia and the USA.
> 
> ...


http://www.worldfootballinsider.com/Story.aspx?id=33053


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## Oceano (Feb 7, 2010)

> *Red Square Lounge the focal point of Soccerex Forum in Manchester*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://www.russia2018-2022.com/en/news--events/news/10032010-soccerex.aspx


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## likasz (Sep 4, 2008)

I really like this bid but I think that visas can be a big problem for fans from UE countries:/


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## Oceano (Feb 7, 2010)

likasz said:


> I really like this bid but I think that visas can be a big problem for fans from UE countries:/


In may 2010, Russia and EU is planning to begin official negotiations about visa-free regime. This theme is unfairly rises as a "problem" for WC bid.
Moreover, Minister of Foreign Affairs is often repeating that Russia is ready to make visa-free regime in any day, even tomorrow.



> *Russia hopes to discuss visa-free deal with EU at summit*
> 
> The Russian Foreign Ministry hopes that Russia and the European Union will articulate their visions of a mutual visa-free regime during the forthcoming Russia-EU summit.
> 
> ...


http://en.rian.ru/russia/20100309/158136184.html


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## Oceano (Feb 7, 2010)

First visualisation of the new stadium in Nizhny Novgorod:


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## Oceano (Feb 7, 2010)

*Moscow (90,000)










St. Petersburg (67,000)










Kazan (45,000)










Sochi (45,000)










Nizhny Novgorod (40,000)










BID:
14 CITIES
15 STADIUMS (12 NEW + 3 RECONSTRUCTED)*

*[This message is about stadium projects and will be updated]*​


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## GrimFadango (Dec 14, 2008)

likasz said:


> (...)I think that visas can be a big problem for fans from UE countries:/


EU - Russia visas are a mistake. I'd love to visit Russia and spend some money there, but ANY organised travel is just too expensive for a regular studying dude like me (~1k euro is a joke, it's like 4* in Egypt for 10 days).



likasz said:


> I really like this bid


I also strongly support this bid. Great stadiums proposals, wonderfull and unexplored cities. Besides, Russians are nice and friendly people:cheers:

I'd like to see more infrastructural projects in Russia, like Sapsan. It would be great to develop an autobahn (at least at MKAD level) Moscow/Petersburg - Warsaw:cheers: HST even better. 

Inter city communication model will be crucial, I think that traveling by train is the best choice for moving around Russia.

Anyway, I hope you guys gonna get this gig:cheers:


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## -\Oceano/- (Mar 18, 2010)

> *FIFA Asks Putin to Speak*
> 
> FIFA, world football’s governing association, has invited Prime Minister Vladimir Putin to appear in Zurich in December to speak on Russia’s bid to host the 2018 World Cup.
> 
> ...


http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/fifa-asks-putin-to-speak/402051.html


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## -\Oceano/- (Mar 18, 2010)

Nizhny Novgorod stadium project on MIPIM-2010:


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## _5_ (Apr 8, 2010)

> *RUSSIAN BID GAINS FURTHER MOMENTUM - WORK ON BID BOOK IN FINAL STAGES*
> 
> MOSCOW, 23 March 2010 - Some eight months before FIFA will award the 2018 and 2022 FIFA World Cups on 2 December 2010, Russia's bid to host football's flagship competition is gaining further momentum.
> 
> ...


http://russia2018-2022.com/en/news--events/news/23032010-russian-bid-gains-further-momentum-.aspx



> *PRIME MINISTER VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS SIGNED ALL GOVERNMENTAL GUARANTEES*
> 
> MOSCOW, 19 April 2010 - With about one month to go before the countries bidding for the 2018/2022 FIFA World Cup™ will submit their bid books to FIFA in Zurich, Russia has accomplished another major milestone in its quest to win the right to host football's biggest event.
> 
> ...


http://russia2018-2022.com/en/news-...n-has-signed-all-governmental-guarantees.aspx


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## _5_ (Apr 8, 2010)

This is how a Bid Book will look like:


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## rus (Nov 20, 2009)

_5_ said:


> This is how a Bid Book will look like:


When will the contents of books?


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## AILD (May 1, 2010)

> *Blatter impressed by Russia 2018 bid*
> 
> FIFA president Sepp Blatter has praised Russia's bid for the 2018 World Cup, labelling it "remarkable".
> 
> ...


http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/781869/ce/uk/&cc=5739



> *Blow for England as Sepp Blatter hails Russia's 'remarkable' 2018 bid*
> 
> Blatter travelled to Russia in January to meet the country's president Dmitry Medvedev and was impressed by their plans.
> 
> ...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...latter-hails-Russias-remarkable-2018-bid.html


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## Qatar Son 333 (May 10, 2006)

Russia 2018 !!!!! my second choice would go to Belgium and Netherlands, but for now i am sticking to Russia, its a very good bid, but don't you think a lot of transport would be needed between the cities ? or do you have a solution.


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## Gran Kanarya (May 11, 2008)

Sepp Blatter said in an interview "Russia is not a country but a continent". it is of course true when you consider the size of it and the fact that it is half in Europe half in Asia and not very far from North America but is he indeed trying to say something else altogether? 

As soon as I read this I thought what if they give 2018 to England and 2022 to Russia and say Russia is like a continent on its own. or maybe England 2018, a non-European country 2022 and Russia 2016. so is Sepp Blatter paving the way for such a bold move, what do you think?


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## Qatar Son 333 (May 10, 2006)

^^ well i am afraid a "continent" needs a lot of work to do, and no it doesn't count on its own  

Blatter talks a lot of non-sense but he did state that Europe will get 2018 and a non-European bid for 2022 so i think Russia needs to aim for 2018.

Europe cannot host it twice so England 2018 and Russia 2022 is not possible.


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## AILD (May 1, 2010)

*Kazan (45,000)*










http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=56466031&postcount=101


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## AILD (May 1, 2010)

> *Arsenal shareholder to help bankroll Russia World Cup bid*
> 
> May 6 - Billionaire Alisher Usmanov (pictured), the second biggest shareholder at Premier League Arsenal, is to financially help Russia's bid to host the 2018 of 2022 World Cup, it was announced today.
> 
> ...


http://www.insideworldfootball.biz/...ussia-world-cup-bid&catid=70:russia&Itemid=83


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## AILD (May 1, 2010)

> *First Deputy Minister Shuvalov to Lead Russian Delegation at Bid Book Handover to FIFA in Zurich*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://www.worldfootballinsider.com/Story.aspx?id=33243


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## Vandoren (Jul 21, 2008)

I know that in Moscow proposed stadiums for Spartak and CSKA,but it's old projects.There is plans to build new stadiums in Moscow special for World Cup 2018/22?


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## AILD (May 1, 2010)

Vandoren said:


> I know that in Moscow proposed stadiums for Spaktar and CSKA,but it's old projects.There is plans to build new stadiums in Moscow special for World Cup 2018/22?


1) Reconstruction of Luzhniki stadium
2) New Spartak stadium
3) Reconstruction of Dynamo stadium
4) New stadium in Moscow region, not far from Moscow Ring Road, which will be instead of Podolsk stadium (which is out of the bid) and is a part of Moscow region Bid.

CSKA stadium will not in Bid but will be built.


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## Vandoren (Jul 21, 2008)

А что в Луже реконструировать будут,там вроде все нормально?
Про Динамо в курсе.Вспомнил сейчас,что видел рендер стадиона Москвич,но не ясно кто там будет играть.Так к чемпионату ничего не планируется отдельно?


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## metros11 (Jan 21, 2009)

Vandoren said:


> А что в Луже реконструировать будут,там вроде все нормально?


I wouldn't be surprised if they lowered the field and extended the lower stands like they're doing in Kiev to provide a better view for lower seats. And of course change out the plastic carpet for some real grass, at least for the tournament.


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## AILD (May 1, 2010)

Vladimir Putin signed special guarantees for FIFA: among all financial and organising elements, it included the point where fans with tickets will travel on railroads between the cities absolutely for free; + visa-free regime (if it won't be already in 2018).


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## rus (Nov 20, 2009)

"fans with tickets will travel on railroads between the cities absolutely for free" - ключевая фраза после которой жмоты англичане курят в сторонке!


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## Vandoren (Jul 21, 2008)

AILD said:


> fans with tickets will travel on railroads between the cities absolutely for free;


Якунин объявил траур ))))


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## CharlieP (Sep 12, 2002)

Aka said:


> Can't Italy include Sicily or Sardinia?


Exactly - Italy *did* include Sicily and Sardinia when it hosted the 1990 World Cup.


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## AILD (May 1, 2010)

> *Russia World Cup bid makes case to CONCACAF*
> 
> Russia’s World Cup team have presented their case to host the 2018 or 2022 World Cup to members of CONCACAF’s Executive Committee.
> 
> ...


http://www.worldfootballinsider.com/Story.aspx?id=33255


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## AILD (May 1, 2010)

New map of cities, without Podolsk (out of Bid):










http://www.russia2018-2022.com/en/the-bid/host-cities.aspx


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## AILD (May 1, 2010)

And photos:


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## AILD (May 1, 2010)

> *Russia says lack of experience, stadiums helps World Cup bid*
> 
> Russia's relative lack of modern stadiums is an advantage in its bid to host the FIFA World Cup as the tournament would enhance football infrastructure in the country, First Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov said on Thursday.
> 
> ...


http://en.rian.ru/russia/20100513/159002920.html


> *Russia’s bid for 2018-2022 World Cups to be submitted*
> 
> Russian sports officials have prepared the country's bid to host either the 2018 or 2022 football World Cup. It will be presented to the football governing body FIFA in Zurich on Friday, May 14.
> 
> ...


http://rt.com/Sport/2010-05-13/russia-football-world-cup.html


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## AILD (May 1, 2010)

> *A World Cup in Russia would benefit football more than anywhere else*
> 
> May 13 - Russia have tried to put a positive spin on their lack of modern football stadiums and facilities by claiming that awarding them the 2018 World Cup would help the development of the sport in the world's biggest country, First Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov claimed today.
> 
> ...


http://www.insideworldfootball.biz/...-than-anywhere-else&catid=70:russia&Itemid=83


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## AILD (May 1, 2010)

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/archive/edition=254645/photo/photolist.html#1211165










http://www.reuters.com/news/pictures/searchpopup?picId=107245695


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

Sorokin said that Hiddink will help Russia's bid and can be one of the ambassadors.


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

> *Russia’s bid for 2018-2022 World Cups submitted*
> 
> The Russian delegation, headed by First Deputy Premier Minister Igor Shuvalov, has passed the country’s bid to host the World Cup in either 2018 or 2022 over to FIFA president Joseph Blatter in Zurich.
> 
> ...


http://rt.com/Sport/2010-05-14/russia-football-world-cup.html


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)




----------



## Zeno2 (Jan 22, 2006)

Russia is top candidate for WC 2018, no doubt about that. They will just buy every vote they need.


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

Zeno2 said:


> Russia is top candidate for WC 2018, no doubt about that. They will just buy every vote they need.


Really? Look at the Sochi-2014 preparations and you will realise that there is no need to "buy votes" (so you are blackmailing FIFA members?) if your Bid is just stronger than others.


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)




----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

*http://russia2018-2022.com/en.aspx*










*NORTHERN CLUSTER*

*Kaliningrad (45,015)




























Saint Petersburg (69,501)*



















*CENTRAL CLUSTER*

*Moscow*

*Luzhniki Stadium (89,318)



















Dynamo Stadium (44,920)



















Spartak Stadium (46,990)



















Moscow Region Stadium (44,257)*










*VOLGA CLUSTER*

*Kazan (45,105)





































Nizhny Novgorod (44,899)



















Yaroslavl (44,042)



















Samara (44,918)




























Volgograd (45,015)




























Saransk (45,015)*



















*SOUTHERN CLUSTER*

*Krasnodar (50,015)



















Rostov-on-Don (43,702)




























Sochi (47,659)*



















*EAST OF URAL*

*Ekaterinburg (44,130)*



















*http://www.russia2018-2022.com/en/the-bid/stadiums.aspx*​


----------



## sali_haci (Oct 3, 2009)

Amazing stadiums


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

12 totally new stadiums (1 already u/c - Saint Petersburg).
4 reconstructed and resized.


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

> *Russia: 'Peer's World Cup Scandal Is Absurd'*
> 
> The head of Russia's 2018 World Cup bid has told Sky News corruption claims reportedly by a British peer heading England's campaign are "absurd".
> 
> ...


http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK...ported_Bribes_Claims_Against_Spain_And_Russia


----------



## fat-ben-made-poop (Apr 28, 2010)

Wow nice stadium and If Russia fail bid 2018/ 2022

what will happen with these stadium?


----------



## KOP (Jul 24, 2009)

Hello everyone.

I understand that the topic of 2018/2022 WC bids has been beat to death, but let's look beyond the decade and analyze the tournament as a means of multilateral development. Honor of hosting the WC is presented to a country as recognition/reward for attaining a certain level of achievement in many facets of life - political, social, economic, technological, and demographic. The main purpose of WC has been/is/will be to bring peace, unity, and friendship by popularizing this beautiful game. Here are my arguments for potential WC hosts:

2018 Russia
+ Huge territory
+ Extremely rich in history and culture
+ Vast human resources
+ Ecotourism and lots of vodka
+ Government support and guarantees

- Huge territory
- Poor infrastructure 
- Security 


2022 Australia
+ Warm climate
+ Developed infrastructure
+ Wealth of activities for tourists
+ Security
+ Media coverage
+ Corporate support
+ Experience in high profile events


2026 Canada
+ Same as above, except the climate.

2030 China
+ Endless population
+ High quality organization
+ Developing infrastructure
+ Gigantic market for everyting
+ Security

2034 Turkey
2038 Argentina
2042 Egypt
2046 Spain
2050 USA


----------



## Vandoren (Jul 21, 2008)

Great renders,but after Spartak gate i don't belive it before they start consrution.


----------



## No1 (Nov 24, 2006)

> *Russia to invest $340 million in football infrastructure*
> 
> Russia will spend around $340 million on new stadiums across the country as it looks to win the right to host the 2018 World Cup, the country's football chief said on Tuesday.
> 
> ...


http://en.rian.ru/sports/20100518/159069318.html


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

These 6 are: new Zenit stadium, Dynamo stadium reconstruction, new Spartak stadium, new Saransk stadium, new Kazan stadium and reconstruction in Ekaterinburg. They are all in action.


----------



## zaDic (Apr 23, 2007)

GG Russia


----------



## hugenholz (Feb 15, 2009)

Only one 80k stadium? A bit Disappointing for such a big country, nevertheless great stadiums. Fresh out the box always looks great.


----------



## Fobos2030 (Mar 18, 2009)

hugenholz said:


> Only one 80k stadium? A bit Disappointing for such a big country, nevertheless great stadiums. Fresh out the box always looks great.


Sry, what do you mean? For now, yes, we have only one 80 k stadium it is "Lugniki". For WC till 2018 we will build 12 new and reconstruct 4 stadiums include “Lugniki” to upgrade it from 80k to 90...


----------



## DaveyCakes (Jun 17, 2008)

Great stadiums. I like Spartak, Volgograd and Rostov..


----------



## Loranga (Apr 24, 2003)

KOP said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I understand that the topic of 2018/2022 WC bids has been beat to death, but let's look beyond the decade and analyze the tournament as a means of multilateral development. Honor of hosting the WC is presented to a country as recognition/reward for attaining a certain level of achievement in many facets of life - political, social, economic, technological, and demographic. The main purpose of WC has been/is/will be to bring peace, unity, and friendship by popularizing this beautiful game. Here are my arguments for potential WC hosts:
> 
> ...


Why is warm climate good for a world cup? The best thing with the WC in SA is that it will be played in decent playing temperature.


----------



## hugenholz (Feb 15, 2009)

Fobos2030 said:


> Sry, what do you mean? For now, yes, we have only one 80 k stadium it is "Lugniki". For WC till 2018 we will build 12 new and reconstruct 4 stadiums include “Lugniki” to upgrade it from 80k to 90...


If I compare this bid with South-Africa and Brasil the stadium capacities are not impressive.

*South-Africa*: Johannesburg: 94,700, Durban: 70,000, Cape Town: 69,070 ,	Johannesburg: 62,567, Pretoria: 51,760, Port Elizabeth: 48,000, Bloemfontein:48,000, Polokwane: 46,000,	Rustenburg: 44,530, Nelspruit: 43,589

*Brasil*: Rio de Janeiro: 90,000, Brasília: 71,500, Belo Horizonte: 70,000, Fortaleza: 66,700, Porto Alegre: 62,000, São Paulo: 62,000, Salvador: 55,000, Manaus: 50,000, Recife: 46,000, Natal: 45,000, Cuiabá: 42,500, Curitiba: 41,375, 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I only see Moscow and Saint Petersburg with 80k+/60k+ capacity. I think Russia need 2 more 60k+ stadiums.


----------



## Fobos2030 (Mar 18, 2009)

^^ Yes you right... We already talked about it in our section. D/n why they presented stadiums with small capacities, but I am sure that this renders is just a nice pictures and if we will get WC, the projects of stadiums will change ten times. For example the firs capacity for Sochi Olympic stadium was 40k for now as you can see they changed it to 47k...


----------



## Dezmond (May 24, 2010)

Rosii need this championat, great stadiums, there is something to aspire, I am from a town party ... if we get it will be something


----------



## rtbedm (Mar 3, 2005)

Ideally th UK and Australia will win the World Cups. But FIFA will give Russia one of the World Cups to keep them from whining like they did when they lost the Hockey gold medal.

Russia is the queen of playing the victim


----------



## Fobos2030 (Mar 18, 2009)

rtbedm said:


> Ideally th UK and Australia will win the World Cups. But FIFA will give Russia one of the World Cups to keep them from whining like they did when they lost the Hockey gold medal.
> 
> Russia is the queen of playing the victim


WTF? Who was whining man? Prove your insulting words...


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

Andrey Arshavin will take part in Bid presentation in South Africa on June, 10th.

and

*FIFA probe dismisses Russia-Spain World Cup bribery claims*

http://en.rian.ru/sports/20100528/159204607.html


----------



## Bogus Law (Mar 6, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meRnRrgQ3Fc&NR=1
^^
Here's a part of a film from 1997. I wonder whether you still have trams like the one you can see from min 1:45 in St. Peterburg.


----------



## Bogus Law (Mar 6, 2009)

del


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

^^ Here you go






Take the bit after the v= in the URL and wrap it in YouTube tags, like so (delete the last space before final square bracket):


```
[youtube]meRnRrgQ3Fc[/youtube ]
```


----------



## rus (Nov 20, 2009)

RobH said:


> ^^ Here you go
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Stop the trolls. This is "Brother" (1997 film) - Russian classic movie 90
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_(1997_film)


----------



## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

KOP said:


> 2022 Australia
> + Warm climate
> 
> 
> ...


Average climate for June. Obviously there is a late autumn in Australian June - relatively cold and cloudy.

average temp / precipitation / sunshine hours / humidity
Melbourne: +12C / 49mm / 108 hours
Sydney: +13C / 131mm / 165 hours / 57%
Brisbane: +16C / 27mm

Saint Petersburg: +16C / 64mm
Moscow: +17C / 84mm / 279 hours / 70%
Sochi: +20C / 99mm / 258 hours

Montreal: +17C / 83mm / 246 hours
Calgary: +14C / 80mm / 280 hours
Vancouver: +15C / 55mm / 229 hours


----------



## Bogus Law (Mar 6, 2009)

rus said:


> Stop the trolls. This is "Brother" (1997 film) - Russian classic movie 90
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_(1997_film)


I'm not asking about the film title, I've watched the film so I know that, and it's not the point. 
However, I've never been to your country so I'm simply asking: is this the reality? can you actually see such horrid trams cruising round the streets of your second biggest city nowadays? 
When you bid for the WC transport and infrastructure is as important as stadiums so I don't understand why am I not allowed to ask such a question and why am I being called a troll.


----------



## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

Bogus Law said:


> I'm not asking about the film title, I've watched the film so I know that, and it's not the point.
> However, I've never been to your country so I'm simply asking: is this the reality? can you actually see such horrid trams cruising round the streets of your second biggest city nowadays?
> When you bid for the WC transport and infrastructure is as important as stadiums so I don't understand why am I not allowed to ask such a question and why am I being called a troll.


You can still find old trams in small cities and few old trams in average cities. Enough for you? Anyway it's not the point. 2018 is still 8 years ahead.


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

Sochi stadium, WC-2018 mode.










Original


----------



## matthemod (Apr 8, 2008)

As much as I want the England bid, the Sochi stadium looks a bit fantastic.


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Yep, the location and design are fantastic and the opening ceremony of the 2014 Winter Olympics will be there.

Are there no plans to build up the stands behind the goals before 2018, or at the very least have them less open (for security reasons if nothing else)?


----------



## Akril (Dec 27, 2007)

Bogus Law said:


> can you actually see such horrid trams cruising round the streets of your second biggest city nowadays?


Why do you concerned with this utility tram? It's not like you are allowed to ride them anyway. Passenger trams looks different. The oldest operational is Tatra T3 variation constructed in 80-s.


----------



## stevensp (May 7, 2010)

AILD said:


> Sochi stadium, WC-2018 mode.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


amazing design

i like it that the are finaly opening a bit the idea of a stadium!
great great design!


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

> *ANDREY ARSHAVIN AND DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER SHUVALOV TEAMING UP*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://www.russia2018-2022.com/en/news--events/news/07062010--.aspx


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

> *Russia won EBSC 2010 in Rome*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://beachsoccerfamily.com/?p=564

In 2009, Russia won Euro Beach Soccer League. So they are currently best team in Europe in Beach Soccer :banana: .


----------



## crazyalex (May 21, 2010)

^^
:banana:


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

> *Russia 2018/2022 Bid Committee to Sponsor Soccerex Networking Cafe in Asia and Brazil*
> 
> Soccerex is delighted to confirm that the Russia 2018/2022 FIFA World Cup Bid Committee has signed up to sponsor the networking cafe at both the Soccerex Asian Forum (28-29 July, Singapore) and the Soccerex Global Convention (20-24 November, Rio de Janeiro).
> 
> ...


http://www.worldfootballinsider.com/Story.aspx?id=33388


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

> *Chelsea owner Abramovich joins Russia on promoting 2018 World Cup bid*
> 
> Roman Abramovich is meeting international football officials to push Russia's bid to host the 2018 World Cup.
> 
> ...


http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5iJoOerjUSPsgQQTJ_QRZkRU2ewMw

From South Africa:


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

> *Russia Makes Strong Case at FIFA Bidding Expo with Abramovich Alongside First Deputy PM Shuvalov and Arshavin*
> 
> Russia presented today its bid to host either the 2018 or 2022 FIFA World Cup™ to the worldwide football family gathered at the 60th Ordinary FIFA Congress in Johannesburg.
> 
> ...


http://www.worldfootballinsider.com/Story.aspx?id=33413


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

> *Russia's 2018 World Cup bid book stolen in South Africa*
> 
> Two volumes of Russia's 2018 World Cup bid book have been stolen from the country's display stand in South Africa, the head of Russia's bid told a government daily on Tuesday.
> 
> ...


http://en.rian.ru/sports/20100615/159433477.html
http://www.insideworldfootball.biz/...len-in-south-africa&catid=70:russia&Itemid=83


----------



## Vandoren (Jul 21, 2008)

AILD said:


> http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5iJoOerjUSPsgQQTJ_QRZkRU2ewMw
> 
> From South Africa:


А про Мутко и Миллера совсем забыли  Тяжело быть не знаменитым в этом мире )))


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

Мутко справа стоит, а Миллер тут вообще не причём.


----------



## Vandoren (Jul 21, 2008)

"Chelsea owner Abramovich joins Russia on promoting 2018 World Cup bid"

Спасибо,кэп!Но я про статью ))


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)




----------



## crazyalex (May 21, 2010)

^^
:drool: Russia must win 2018


----------



## pamirez (Dec 20, 2009)

a very good bid. I think it's between England und Russia


----------



## Melb_aviator (Aug 28, 2007)

Is there a danger that the current issues that the 2014 Sochi Olympic Games are having will come across as a danger sign to FIFA? There seems to have een major organisational issues that have hamstrung the building works, seeing major cost rises from the projections, forcing the Premier to get involved.

Such things may come to hurt Russias bid.

Overall though, I think it is between England and Russia. The only other bid I see with a chance is the Iberian one, but it is the outsider I would suspect in this race. In saying that though, the Benelux and Iberian bids are flying under the radar as the other 2 war it out. It may work in their favour.


----------



## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

Coca Cola to invest $4bln, if Russia gets World Cup 2018.
http://www.dp.ru/a/2010/06/19/Coca-Cola_obeshhaet_vlozhit



Melb_aviator
there are no large issues, just small issues with payouts to locals who asking more. and few issues with some subcontractors. even with all those issues things will be ready long before games.

there is actually a thread on this


----------



## Melb_aviator (Aug 28, 2007)

coth said:


> Coca Cola to invest $4bln, if Russia gets World Cup 2018.
> http://www.dp.ru/a/2010/06/19/Coca-Cola_obeshhaet_vlozhit


Thats a massive investment to make. Certainly shows the commercial market opportunities available by having a Russian WC. Thats why I suspect that Russia is favourite now to win, along with the quality of their stadiums and overall bid.




coth said:


> Melb_aviator
> there are no large issues, just small issues with payouts to locals who asking more. and few issues with some subcontractors. even with all those issues things will be ready long before games.
> 
> there is actually a thread on this


Not denying that it may have been a blip on the radar, but these things can go down badly when going for other events if there is any instability. Thats why it is something that may come back as an issue in the run up to the host announcement/voting.


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

*The 50th Anniversary of EURO-1960 Victory:*


----------



## Gadiri (Oct 30, 2009)

AILD said:


>


4 stadiums in Moscow ? :nuts:

Dynamo 40 000
Spartak 37 000
Luzhniki 39 000 
Moscow stadium 75 000

For Euro 2012, there is not Fenerhbace stadium 50 000 seats ( UEFA 5 Stars) because there is also Olympic stadium and Galatasaray stadium. 

Is it possible to have more than 2 stadiums in the same city for a WC ?


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

Gadiri said:


> 4 stadiums in Moscow ? :nuts:
> 
> Dynamo 40 000
> Spartak 37 000
> ...


3 stadiums in Moscow and 1 in Moscow region.
FIFA doesn't require exact maximum number of proposed stadiums. But when in 2013 they will choose stadiums to host WC games - they can choose any number - 1,2,3. It depends on their decision.


----------



## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

Gadiri said:


> Is it possible to have more than 2 stadiums in the same city for a WC ?


Johannesburg has two.


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

Temperature in daytime nowadays  :
Moscow: 30-35 C to the end of the week.
St.Petersburg: 28 C
Kazan: 38 C
Ekaterinburg: 33 C


----------



## Gadiri (Oct 30, 2009)

AILD said:


> 3 stadiums in Moscow and 1 in Moscow region.
> FIFA doesn't require exact maximum number of proposed stadiums. But when in 2013 they will choose stadiums to host WC games - they can choose any number - 1,2,3. It depends on their decision.


Ok thanks. Which one is on Moscow region ? How far ? 



coth said:


> Johannesburg has two.


Yes I konw, for example France 98 there was both Parc des Princes (Paris) and Stade de France (St Denis). 

But more than 2, if UEFA/FIFA rules are approximatively the same, it could not be possible. UEFA says no for Fenerbahce stadium in Turkey bid for Euro 2016. And it's a 5 stars stadium which host UEFA final cup 2009. Because of 2 others stadium in Istambul. 

I have really doubt for 3 stadiums in Moscow.


----------



## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

36km of Moscow Kremlin and 9km from City of Moscow border.


----------



## rus (Nov 20, 2009)

Cities of the Volga cluster:
*Yaroslavl*
http://video.yandex.ru/users/mms-max/view/1/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY3CfFiTvGY
http://rt.com/About_Us/Programmes/Wayfarer/2008-02-24/359527.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYwb1mUkVkM
*Nizhny Novgorod*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p85SJ9JBG7c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACkfDLhX6UE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYrWQhhN9dQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpvfM6Mttfw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lVqyyr-NZc
*Kazan*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnWcORLejqY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XDymkUMouA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZXmyO1vmzQ
http://rt.com/About_Us/Programmes/XL_Reports/2009-12-12/526675.html
http://rt.com/About_Us/Programmes/Wayfarer/2008-08-03/359576.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx-m35FKxyI
*Volgograd*
http://video.mail.ru/mail/samaya-jelannaya/945/946.html
http://rt.com/About_Us/Programmes/Wayfarer/2008-04-18/359546.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoSXcsRv5fY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLhC2eTkVCM
http://rt.com/Top_News/2010-05-09/mamayev-kurgan-wwii-victory.html
http://rt.com/About_Us/Programmes/XL_Reports/2010-02-08/542014.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf_dsPv1Hn4&feature=related
*Samara*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_tJrZaEmb8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FBuRQCYnWs&feature=related
http://rt.com/About_Us/Programmes/Wayfarer/2008-01-11/359514.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq25TWDZiwI


----------



## Gadiri (Oct 30, 2009)

AILD said:


> ^^ Thanks.
> 
> embed:


Fantastic ! :applause:

Simply the best new stadium building in a old stadium, better than Lepzig and Besiktas projetcs.


----------



## rus (Nov 20, 2009)

rus said:


> 10 Russian host cities of the 2018 World Cup have sea or river ports:
> Kaliningrad(Baltic Sea)
> Saint Petersburg(Baltic Sea, Neva River)
> Moscow(Moskva River)
> ...


Zenit fans on the Neva River:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMFpKoCmy_k&feature=player_embedded


----------



## Sochi NEW Dubai (Jul 3, 2010)

Rus and ekaterinburg,Saransk and Krasnodar


----------



## Huskies (Apr 15, 2009)

The only way i can se Russia getting it ahead of England would be corruption. England has the stadiums, the culture and has waited WAY to long. I wouldnt mind russia getting it smetime in the future though, but USA and spain should probably get a second first.

Edit: the above stadium is really cool, nice vid


----------



## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

^^ But if FIFA is serious about spreading the game then Russia could very well steal it, after all they have the almost unlimited funds to throw at it and build the stadiums.


----------



## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

Huskies said:


> The only way i can se Russia getting it ahead of England would be corruption. England has the stadiums, the culture and has waited WAY to long. I wouldnt mind russia getting it smetime in the future though, but USA and spain should probably get a second first.
> 
> Edit: the above stadium is really cool, nice vid


It's already got what it was waited for. England has hosted 1966 World Cup. There were only 11 World Cups since that and there are way more than 11 countries which never hosted, but willing to host it. Not to mention France 1998 and Germany 2006. Both can be counted as home for England, as both are cheap for Brits, just few hours away from Britain and does not require any visas and any international documents. Russia 2018 bid covers area more than UK, France, Germany and rest of countries between them.


----------



## rus (Nov 20, 2009)

Sochi NEW Dubai said:


> Rus and ekaterinburg,Saransk and Krasnodar


I wrote about 10 cities, which are connected waterways. I think this will be our chip. Tourists from South Europe (Italy, Spain, Croatia, Greece and others) will be able to travel through Russia from the south to north along the Russian rivers for their National teams. And from Northern Europe (England, Netherlands, Germany, Sweden and others) can be reached by ships or yachts in the South of Russia to Rostov and Sochi.

P.S. Navigation is developed only on the Kuban River in the Krasnodar region, but there is no way in the Black Sea and other basins. Ekaterinburg and Saransk not have water transport, but there are rivers and lakes for swimming.


----------



## JimB (Apr 7, 2005)

Huskies said:


> The only way i can se Russia getting it ahead of England would be corruption. England has the stadiums, the culture and has waited WAY to long. I wouldnt mind russia getting it smetime in the future though, but USA and spain should probably get a second first.
> 
> Edit: the above stadium is really cool, nice vid


England has more and better stadiums now but, by 2018, both countries will have great stadiums.

And, sure, England has waited far too long to host the World Cup. But, having never been host country, Russia has waited even longer!

Too close to call, IMO. And we can't write off Holland / Belgium and Spain / Portugal either........though, IMO, they are the outsiders (Iberia especially) because they both involve two bidding nations and that would mean one less qualification place for UEFA.


----------



## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

coth said:


> It's already got what it was waited for. England has hosted 1966 World Cup. There were only 11 World Cups since that and there are way more than 11 countries which never hosted, but willing to host it. Not to mention France 1998 and Germany 2006. Both can be counted as home for England, as both are cheap for Brits, just few hours away from Britain and does not require any *visas and any international documents*. Russia 2018 bid covers area more than UK, France, Germany and rest of countries between them.


If Russia get 2018, is there going to be any relaxation on Russia's Strick visa requirements?
I had two friends that were denied a visa because of rigid technicalities (don't write "See attached Documentation" when asked point and dates of entry and departure from Russia  )


----------



## Balam56 (Oct 30, 2007)

que hermosos estadios de futbol para rusia felicidades amigos............


----------



## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

Walbanger said:


> If Russia get 2018, is there going to be any relaxation on Russia's Strick visa requirements?
> I had two friends that were denied a visa because of rigid technicalities (don't write "See attached Documentation" when asked point and dates of entry and departure from Russia  )


The question is - will UK lift visa requirments during Olympic Games. I highly doubt so. Russia is ready to lift requirments for EU just this year. All depend on EU only.


----------



## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

um, that wasn't my question, I thought this was the thread to ask Russians about the Russian Bid and related issues. I can ask an Englishman about their bid and country in their World Cup thread.


----------



## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

Speaking of Australia - as far as i know Australia has no any plans to lift requirments for Russia. So yet again - it's all up to Australia.


----------



## JimB (Apr 7, 2005)

coth said:


> Speaking of Australia - as far as i know Australia has no any plans to lift requirments for Russia. So yet again - it's all up to Australia.


You still haven't answered the question.

Is Russia planning to ease off on its strict VISA requirements at least for the duration of the World Cup, should they get it? You say that plans are afoot for EU countries. What about the rest of the world?


----------



## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

coth said:


> Speaking of Australia - as far as i know Australia has no any plans to lift requirments for Russia. So yet again - *it's all up to Australia*.


I was not aware of that. Maybe Russia could be the better man and relax there restrictions first, show us Australians something. God knows many people would love to travel in Russia but are put off by the visa headaches. It's easier to go to the Ukraine.


----------



## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

JimB said:


> You still haven't answered the question.
> 
> Is Russia planning to ease off on its strict VISA requirements at least for the duration of the World Cup, should they get it? You say that plans are afoot for EU countries. What about the rest of the world?


Does it so matter?


----------



## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

Walbanger said:


> I was not aware of that. Maybe Russia could be the better man and relax there restrictions first, show us Australians something. God knows many people would love to travel in Russia but are put off by the visa headaches. It's easier to go to the Ukraine.


Russia is said to ready cancel visa for most of the World any time. But those things cannot be done in a one gate. It could be done only by double side agreements. Two months ago Australia said not wishing to do it.


----------



## JimB (Apr 7, 2005)

coth said:


> Does it so matter?


Yes....if you're planning to welcome hundreds of thousands of football fans to your country, most of whom will be arriving at the same time and many of whom will only decide to travel at the last moment (especially if their team does better than expected).

I'd have thought that it mattered quite a lot.


----------



## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

Well then all of bidding countries have same problem. So it won't affect anyone.


----------



## JimB (Apr 7, 2005)

coth said:


> Well then all of bidding countries have same problem. So it won't affect anyone.


Who said anything about other countries?

Wallbanger only asked a reasonable question about Russia's visa requirements on this thread because......................................................well, because this is the thread about the Russian bid. Pretty glaringly obvious, I would have thought.

Why so defensive? Why do you keep bringing other bid countries into it?


----------



## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

Because nobody here asking same questions to other bids.


----------



## Major Deegan (Sep 24, 2005)

Coth is turning it political by bringing up stalled Russia-EU visa-free regime negotiations, which, by the way, have no relation to Russia's possible hosting of the 2018 event. If there isn't some sort of visa-free agreement in place by 2018, it will absolutely be up to the hosting country to accommodate a temporary visa easement and not up to other countries.


----------



## masterpaul (Jun 27, 2007)

AILD said:


> *KALININGRAD (45,015)*
> 
> 
> *STADIUM*
> ...


 WOW... why not just steal baltic arena from Poland, while your at it.


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

JimB said:


> Is Russia planning to ease off on its strict VISA requirements at least for the duration of the World Cup, should they get it?


Yes! I even wrote it in this thread.

+ no money for travelling between cities by railroads for those who have tickets.


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

masterpaul said:


> WOW... why not just steal baltic arena from Poland, while your at it.


Because Poland is not bidding :lol: . And many stadiums look the same if you didn't notice.


----------



## JimB (Apr 7, 2005)

AILD said:


> Yes! I even wrote it in this thread.
> 
> + no money for travelling between cities by railroads for those who have tickets.


Thank you, AILD.

See, coth? That's how it's done.


----------



## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

coth said:


> Because nobody here asking same questions to other bids.


Sometimes it's as innocent as people (in my case Australians) may be more familiar with the entry requirements of one counrty over another. Not an attack and I certainly didn't mean for you to take a defensive position.




AILD said:


> Yes! I even wrote it in this thread.
> 
> + no money for travelling between cities by railroads for those who have tickets.


Thanks AILD, sorry for that. I should have looked deeper in the thread.


----------



## Archbishop (Aug 18, 2009)

I love this bid. I'm really rooting for it. I've never been to Russia, but the cities look beautiful and the stadiums are outstanding. Go Russia!


----------



## rus (Nov 20, 2009)

BID HIGHLIGHTS BROCHURE
http://issuu.com/readytoinspire/doc...issuu.com/v/light/layout.xml&showFlipBtn=true
http://www.russia2018-2022.com/en.aspx


----------



## masterpaul (Jun 27, 2007)

AILD said:


> Because Poland is not bidding :lol: . And many stadiums look the same if you didn't notice.


Actually baltic areena is the right a round shaped stadium, but the facade and the gold-ish, amber theme is unique. Which russia just shamefully ripped off.

Give me another stadium that has curvy tiers *and *a completely rorund facade?

Give me another stadium which facade was based on amber stones and a goldish theme.


----------



## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

Archbishop said:


> I love this bid. I'm really rooting for it. I've never been to Russia, but the cities look beautiful and the stadiums are outstanding. Go Russia!


I'm, not too fazed about who wins 2018 (bar Spain 'cos 1982 is to soon compared to the others) but I sure do like the Stadium proposals from Russia an it certainly wouldn't be disappointed if they won. Definitely a culture and history that fascinates me.


----------



## Archbishop (Aug 18, 2009)

I look at it like which country would I like to visit the most to see a World Cup. I am really interested in Russia, their cities, their culture, etc. By 2018 I hope to have the money to go to a World Cup, so that's what I am judging them on.


----------



## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

I agree somewhat but I also consider what each country has given to soccer and who hasn't hosted before. Thats why I don't care for some English who reason they have had to wait +44 years when Benelux hasn't hosted, neither Russia. I see the Iberian bid as Spains with Portugal as a token host. That being said they would all make fine hosts.
England gave the world Soccer but they have hosted and won it. after that I say the Netherlands in the tatical philosophies they have developed which revolutionised the game since the 70's. Spain obviously just won but Russia is something special.


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

masterpaul said:


> Actually baltic areena is the right a round shaped stadium, but the facade and the gold-ish, amber theme is unique. Which russia just shamefully ripped off.


Smells like famous big polish ego :lol: .


----------



## masterpaul (Jun 27, 2007)

AILD said:


> Smells like famous big polish ego :lol: .


Ok so, i guess building an exact replica of Moscow's palace and other hardly existent Russian monuments, in Poland wouldn't bother you?










Admit-tingly it would look pretty cool. Of course if we would build a replica, we would improve it and make it better and bigger, just for the hell of it. After all we have to find what to do with all thats money what's gonna come in form our own gas and other minerals. xD I can aslo see Russia's federation tower fit along nicely in Warsaw's skyline.


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

You know that comparing St. Basel's Cathedral (one of the main today's Wonder of the World) and color and external view of the football stadium is a bit unproportional  .
Just go away, troll.

P.S. every person who work in gas sphere can admit that "shale gas" is another "bubble", which has many talks and no result. Because it is much more expensive and it has major consequances for grounds.

But seems like you know nothing about this theme  . It's so easy to manipulate poles. j/k

End this absurd, masterpaul.


----------



## T74 (Jun 17, 2010)

coth said:


> Because nobody here asking same questions to other bids.


I think you are missing the point of the original question, its not about visas as such, but about countries who make it difficult to get a visa full stop.

for instance, I have previously had to obtain visas for the USA and China. USA was a breeze (submit application and passport, and done), and China used to be fine (invite letter, app form, passport).

prior to Beijing 2008 however, China upped its visa requirements, and they now required more time to review the app, and wanted tickets pre-payed. They also started getting concerned about invite letters (some in govt were convinced tibet protesters would pretend to be in China on business, and go to protest the games). Not a deal breaker, but a hassle that was annoying. I normally travel in and out of China several times while there for work (i.e. HK-SZ-HK-GZ-HK-SH), and how/when/where depends upon client demands. Trying to explain this to an official at the consulate took a bit of doing!!

France on the other hand is a nightmare for my wife. As she is Chinese, she has to buy her ticket, fly to Sydney, submit her ticket, app form, passport to the Sydney consulate, AND submit to biometric testing. The fact she has to spend $300 on flights just to get a visa (France only has its Sydney consulate doing the biometric testing) means we are not going to France anymore.

I know friends who have had issues getting visas for Russia - it was not impossible, just annoying. To get tourism flowing more, I'd keep your visas in place, but make the process of applying for them and getting them a bit easier


** please note Russia is not alone for this issue, I know USA demands for Australians to have mandatory finger printing prior to entering the States deterred some from visiting, similar with the notoriously long queues at security at USA airports. while issues like this don't win/lose you a WC, if you have a lot of little issues like this it does add up (like our stupid AFL/NRL comps trying to cause issues with our bid)


----------



## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

It's a breeze for you because you are from Australia. For Russians or Chinese it's often not just annoying, but simply impossible to get USA or UK visa. Especially UK visa.


----------



## JimB (Apr 7, 2005)

coth said:


> It's a breeze for you because you are from Australia. For Russians or Chinese it's often not just annoying, but simply impossible to get USA or UK visa. Especially UK visa.


Impossible?

What a bout the thousands of Russians who are now in London.

If they couldn't get a visa, perhaps Scottie beamed them there via the Starship Enterprise?


----------



## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

What about thousands who were rejected to get visa without even explanations?


----------



## alterego0113 (Aug 8, 2009)

Good stuff. I hope Russia wins. Any news/photos about Gazprom arena ?


----------



## drowningman666 (Nov 5, 2007)

Amazing bid


----------



## AlekseyVT (Dec 21, 2009)

JimB said:


> Impossible?
> 
> What a bout the thousands of Russians who are now in London.
> 
> If they couldn't get a visa, perhaps Scottie beamed them there via the Starship Enterprise?


It's sad to hear that Russian thiefs like oligarchs are very popular in London while ordinary honest Russians have a lot of problems to get British visa.


----------



## rus (Nov 20, 2009)

FIFA in Kazan
http://kazan.kp.ru/online/news/722778/


----------



## Axelferis (Jan 18, 2008)

good presentation but what is the weather like there in summer


----------



## rus (Nov 20, 2009)

FIFA inspection team visits Kazan.
http://president.tatar.ru/eng/photo/show/20102


----------



## rus (Nov 20, 2009)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Gangs_in_the_United_States
Bandidos(Opened at random)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandidos
Membership 2,000-2,500 full-patch members:nuts:


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

And one more report:






I just arrived and will try to collect all photos and articles about FIFA inspection visit later  .


----------



## _X_ (Oct 24, 2009)

AILD,you posted way too many images in one hit and half of them won't load properly


----------



## rus (Nov 20, 2009)

SOROKIN: GUESTS SAW FOUR DIFFERENT COUNTRIES IN RUSSIA
http://english.sport-express.ru/summary/1_5458/


----------



## rus (Nov 20, 2009)

Ready to inspire: KAZAN
http://vimeo.com/14263320


----------



## Nneznajka (Apr 19, 2008)

^^ 

14263320


----------



## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

_X_ said:


> AILD,you posted way too many images in one hit and half of them won't load properly


It's imageshack.us and it's works fine for me (at least right now). Possibly your ISP has a limit on number of active TCP sessions. Or you have problems with your OS (network settings).


----------



## _X_ (Oct 24, 2009)

coth said:


> It's imageshack.us and it's works fine for me (at least right now). Possibly your ISP has a limit on number of active TCP sessions. Or you have problems with your OS (network settings).


OK mate,for some reason the photo with all the stadiums won't load,it loaded the other day and I just wanted to post it elsewhere


----------



## Trelawny (Jan 9, 2010)

*Questions*

1. A lot of the stadiums look the same??
2. Why does Moscow have 4 stadiums?
3. Why is everything in Western Russia?

Strong Bid though, I like.:yes:


----------



## crazyalex (May 21, 2010)

Trelawny said:


> 1. A lot of the stadiums look the same??
> 2. Why does Moscow have 4 stadiums?
> 3. Why is everything in Western Russia?
> 
> Strong Bid though, I like.:yes:


1. what the **** im a reading
2. I don't know why
3. maybe Russian want every stadium in Europe region


----------



## borza (Dec 11, 2007)

Trelawny said:


> 1. A lot of the stadiums look the same??
> 2. Why does Moscow have 4 stadiums?
> 3. Why is everything in Western Russia?
> 
> Strong Bid though, I like.:yes:


1) i disagree
2) 3 in Moscow, forth in Moscow Region. FIFA doesn't want more than 2 or 3 stadiums in one city.
3) It would be quiet difficult for visitors and players to fly each time from Vladivostok to Kaliningrad eg. (not considering jet lag)


----------



## AlekseyVT (Dec 21, 2009)

Trelawny said:


> 1. A lot of the stadiums look the same??
> 2. Why does Moscow have 4 stadiums?
> 3. Why is everything in Western Russia?
> 
> Strong Bid though, I like.:yes:


1. Please look at the stadiums (and rendering) one more time.
2. Because there are many capital football clubs in Russia (like in London or in Budapest, for example). "Luzhniki" is 5-stars stadium, "Lokomotiv" is modern stadium, there is reconstruction of "Dynamo" stadium and plans to biuld modern stadiums for "Spartak" and FC CSKA.
3. Because it's more comfortable for players, journalists and TV-broadcasting.


----------



## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

Trelawny said:


> 1. A lot of the stadiums look the same??
> 2. Why does Moscow have 4 stadiums?
> 3. Why is everything in Western Russia?
> 
> Strong Bid though, I like.:yes:


2. 3, not 4. And they are candidates.
3. Maybe because it's more populated than Siberia and Far East. And there is just two stadium candidates in west-northern Russia. 4 in central Russia (3 in Moscow and 1 in Podol'sk). 3 cities located in southern Russia. Most of cities located in Volga region (it's eastern Russia). 1 in Urals.


----------



## AILD (May 1, 2010)

Presentation of Kaliningrad, Saint Petersburg, Nizhni Novgorod, Kazan, Sochi and Moscow (Luzhniki) stadiums.


----------



## Russia__WC__2018 (Sep 21, 2010)

> *Kazan sports potential presented to FIFA executive committee members*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://eng.tatar-inform.ru/news/2010/10/08/32047/


----------



## labytnangi (Feb 6, 2010)

It is an alternative video for Russia's 2018 World Cup bid. You can learn Russian better and learn each city separately.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0MufOiEtrw


----------



## okulaja (Oct 7, 2010)

nice


----------



## rockin'.baltimorean (Jul 5, 2008)

^^yes. very nice...


----------



## Russia__WC__2018 (Sep 21, 2010)

Very little presentation of the bid in Kazan on Republic Day, since 8:38  :


----------



## Mo Rush (Nov 13, 2004)

Russia__WC__2018 said:


> Very little presentation of the bid in Kazan on Republic Day, since 8:38  :


Are you the banned forumer AILD?


----------



## woozoo (Jun 16, 2008)

Are all the people in Tartastan giants like these two guys? You would have an awesome basketball team....


----------



## Russia__WC__2018 (Sep 21, 2010)

^^ LOL
They are "FIFA executive committee members".


----------



## rus (Nov 20, 2009)

This guy goes to all the games Zenit
http://en.fc-zenit.ru/euroleague/media/photo/gl1446/


----------



## Russia__WC__2018 (Sep 21, 2010)

*Russia to focus on 2018 World Cup bid!*


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

As in, they're pulling out of 2022? Well, that's not news given that they can't now win 2022, but I suppose the announcement had to be made


----------



## Russia__WC__2018 (Sep 21, 2010)

Yeah, it's official. Today Mutko said about it to Sepp Blatter and Jerome Valcke.



> *Russia withdraws bid for 2022 World Cup to focus on European race for 2018*
> 
> Russia has formally withdrawn its bid to host the 2022 World Cup.
> 
> ...


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ca...qM5hXcx1RjLlMPdmeehRJyxHY2QqYOg?docId=4910559


----------



## Mr.Underground (Jan 15, 2007)

From Italy our heart is for RUSSIA 2018, simply the best bid, interesting stadia and fantastic design.

My fear is that WC will go to England, a bid so boring and so old. hno:

C'm on Russia 2018, Italy is with you, waiting 2nd december remembering that not aòways the best bid wins.


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Perhaps you'd like to try speaking for yourself rather than on behalf of your whole country next time eh?


----------



## dacrio (Jan 30, 2009)

Mr.Underground said:


> From Italy our heart is for RUSSIA 2018, simply the best bid, interesting stadia and fantastic design.
> 
> My fear is that WC will go to England, a bid so boring and so old. hno:
> 
> C'm on Russia 2018, Italy is with you, waiting 2nd december remembering that not aòways the best bid wins.


I agree. Go russia from Italy!



RobH said:


> Perhaps you'd like to try speaking for yourself rather than on behalf of your whole country next time eh?


:tongue:


----------



## Fobos2030 (Mar 18, 2009)

Mr.Underground said:


> From Italy our heart is for RUSSIA 2018, simply the best bid, interesting stadia and fantastic design.
> 
> My fear is that WC will go to England, a bid so boring and so old. hno:
> 
> C'm on Russia 2018, Italy is with you, waiting 2nd december remembering that not aòways the best bid wins.


Thank you for the kind words The main battle is coming


----------



## JimB (Apr 7, 2005)

Mr.Underground said:


> From Italy our heart is for RUSSIA 2018, simply the best bid, interesting stadia and fantastic design.
> 
> My fear is that WC will go to England, a bid so boring and so old. hno:
> 
> C'm on Russia 2018, Italy is with you, waiting 2nd december *remembering that not aòways the best bid wins.*


Highly debatable which is the best bid.

Which is kind of the point.

Both Russia and England have very good bids - though each has differing strengths and weaknesses.

Holland / Belgium also has a strong bid and may well be the dark horse.

Spain / Portugal has fantastic stadiums - the best of any of the European bids - but I fear that it is fatally wounded by using one country (Portugal) as a bit part player that has only been included to counter claims that it is not Spain's turn.


----------



## JimB (Apr 7, 2005)

dacrio said:


> I agree. Go russia from Italy!
> 
> 
> 
> :tongue:


Erm.......two people still doesn't represent the whole of Italy. Neither does three or four. Perhaps, if you got 60 million Italians to post their support for Russia on this thread you could then say that the whole of Italy agrees with you.

I'm not going to hold my breath, though.


----------



## rus (Nov 20, 2009)

Thank you Italy! Italians and Germans are our friends and allies in Western Europe.


----------



## _X_ (Oct 24, 2009)

rus said:


> Thank you Italy! Italians and Germans are our friends and allies in Western Europe.


The Kaiser will vote England


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

He was very strong on England's bid early in the campaign, full of praise for Wembley stadium and the bid in general, but his support I feel has wained slightly since. Who knows where his vote will end up?


----------



## _X_ (Oct 24, 2009)

RobH said:


> He was very strong on England's bid early in the campaign, full of praise for Wembley stadium and the bid in general, but his support I feel has wained slightly since. Who knows where his vote will end up?


I realise this has been the impression he has given lately regarding both England and Australia but I'm almost certain he will vote as originally intended,with those two nations


----------



## Mr.Underground (Jan 15, 2007)

JimB said:


> Highly debatable which is the best bid.
> 
> Which is kind of the point.
> 
> ...


I think Netherland-Belgium is the worst bid between the 4 european bids.

England and the joint bid Portugal-Spain are classical bids, too traditional, an old brand, quite boring, you know in advantage what you to wait from a WC in that countries. Russia is the new, is a new country in which FIFA has the possibilty to sell its product and fan to have new emotion.

The stadia in english bid are the usual stadia, are stadia seen, nothing of new, are traditional but people many times wants a wind of change and between the four bids only Russia has this wind of change.


----------



## AlekseyVT (Dec 21, 2009)

I'm think that all football fans were been in England at least one time when their favorite teams played with English clubs. Therefore it will be difficult for them to find something new in 2018. London isn't same as GB and not same as England. Even such football cities like Liverpool or Manchester have very few tourist sights (exсept Museum of Beatles, of course).


----------



## Mr Trebus (Oct 18, 2010)

AlekseyVT said:


> I'm think that all football fans were been in England at least one time when their favorite teams played with English clubs. Therefore it will be difficult for them to find something new in 2018. London isn't same as GB and not same as England. Even such football cities like Liverpool or Manchester have very few tourist sights (exсept Museum of Beatles, of course).


getting desperate now:lol:


----------



## matthemod (Apr 8, 2008)

AlekseyVT said:


> I'm think that all football fans were been in England at least one time when their favorite teams played with English clubs. Therefore it will be difficult for them to find something new in 2018. London isn't same as GB and not same as England. Even such football cities like Liverpool or Manchester have very few tourist sights (exсept Museum of Beatles, of course).


Because I'm sure such a location like Podolsk will be fighting off the tourists


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Mr Trebus said:


> getting desperate now:lol:


Yep. Seems so. :lol:


----------



## Mr.Underground (Jan 15, 2007)

RobH said:


> Yep. Seems so. :lol:


Rob, be honest do you think that England bid can take a sense of novelty for the fans? 
I think is based only on tradition with the usual London, with Manchester and its usual Old Trafford, without a sense of discover for the fan. Fans know what are going to view or to visit.
Russia is different, it takes new emotion, new cities, new stadia, new feelings and for FIFA Russia could be a new market.


----------



## Mr.Underground (Jan 15, 2007)

Stadia proposed in japanese bid book:

http://www.dream-2022.jp/en/our_bid/bid_book/11.html

Many venues are a legacy od 2002 edition.


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Mr.Underground said:


> Rob, be honest do you think that England bid can take a sense of novelty for the fans?
> I think is based only on tradition with the usual London, with Manchester and its usual Old Trafford, without a sense of discover for the fan. Fans know what are going to view or to visit.
> Russia is different, it takes new emotion, new cities, new stadia, new feelings and for FIFA Russia could be a new market.


Perhaps, but nothing wrong with tradition either. Depends what FIFA are after really.


----------



## igor_carlos (Jul 1, 2009)

JimB said:


> Erm.......two people still doesn't represent the whole of Italy. Neither does three or four. Perhaps, if you got 60 million Italians to post their support for Russia on this thread you could then say that the whole of Italy agrees with you.
> 
> I'm not going to hold my breath, though.


ok now one more Italian supporting Russia, now we are 3 :nuts: 
Living in Dublin, England should be the best option, but I didnt like that bid, think Russia has chance on December!


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Only 59,999,997 to go then !


----------



## AlekseyVT (Dec 21, 2009)

RobH said:


> Perhaps you'd like to try speaking for yourself rather than on behalf of your whole country next time eh?


May be, you and all British forumers are also don't represent such British region like England?


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

We don't claim to.


----------



## dacrio (Jan 30, 2009)

JimB said:


> Erm.......two people still doesn't represent the whole of Italy. Neither does three or four. Perhaps, if you got 60 million Italians to post their support for Russia on this thread you could then say that the whole of Italy agrees with you.
> 
> I'm not going to hold my breath, though.





RobH said:


> Only 59,999,997 to go then !


you made a mistake!

our lovely premier SILVIO BERLUSCONI (that represents the majority of italians) is the best friend of vladimir putin.

so we can say that italians support Russia for 2018!
:lol:


----------



## JimB (Apr 7, 2005)

Mr.Underground said:


> I think Netherland-Belgium is the worst bid between the 4 european bids.
> 
> England and the joint bid Portugal-Spain are classical bids, too traditional, an old brand, quite boring, you know in advantage what you to wait from a WC in that countries. Russia is the new, is a new country in which FIFA has the possibilty to sell its product and fan to have new emotion.
> 
> The stadia in english bid are the usual stadia, are stadia seen, nothing of new, are traditional but people many times wants a wind of change and between the four bids only Russia has this wind of change.


I don't really understand this line of argument.

It's like the famous mantra from Orwell's _Animal Farm_ but, instead of "four legs good, two legs bad", it's "new is good, old is bad".

There doesn't seem to be anything else to such an argument. It appears to be a mantra merely for the sake of having a mantra.

Yes, Russia will build some new stadiums. Yes, some of England's stadiums will be older (but not old). So what?

All that matters, surely, is that the stadiums do the job that they were designed to do - namely, to allow fans to watch football in comfort and safety - and that the transport infrastructure has the capacity to transport them there and back as smoothly and quickly as possible.

If FIFA were to adopt the attitude, as you have, that "new is good, old is bad", then nations with existing, well established stadium, transport and accommodation infrastructure would NEVER get the chance to host the World Cup. Unless, of course, they promised to demolish all their existing, excellent stadiums and build new ones. But where would be the logic in that?

Similarly, if FIFA were to adopt the attitude that "new is good, old is bad", the only countries that would EVER get the chance to host the World Cup would be countries that are far short of the required number of stadiums of sufficient size and quality. Furthermore these would be precisely the countries that don't need loads of big stadiums. And they would most likely be countries that really can't afford such stadiums. Again, where is the logic in that?

Russia's bid is good because it offers much which is new.

But that doesn't mean that England's bid is bad because it doesn't.

It just means that England's bid has different strengths.

So enough of the meaningless mantras.


----------



## JimB (Apr 7, 2005)

dacrio said:


> you made a mistake!
> 
> our lovely premier SILVIO BERLUSCONI (that represents the majority of italians) is the best friend of vladimir putin.
> 
> ...


Wow, I knew that Berlusconi was powerful.

But I didn't know that he was 60 million people all in one.

Now that's what you call being omnipresent.


----------



## JimB (Apr 7, 2005)

Mr.Underground said:


> Rob, be honest do you think that England bid can take a sense of novelty for the fans?
> I think is based only on tradition with the usual London, with Manchester and its usual Old Trafford, without a sense of discover for the fan. *Fans know what are going to view or to visit*.
> Russia is different, it takes new emotion, new cities, new stadia, new feelings and for FIFA Russia could be a new market.


Err.......what on earth is wrong with that?

People absolutely love seeing in the flesh what they have long seen only on TV or in photographs. You see it at tourist sites around the world.....the Taj Mahal, the Pyramids and Sphynx, the Eiffel Tower, the Houses of Parliament, the Grand Canyon.....it's an amazing feeling actually to be there.

Along with some 15,000 other Spurs fans, I travelled to Milano last week for our game against Inter. We were all thrilled to watch our team playing at such an iconic stadium as the San Siro.

It wouldn't have been nearly so special an occasion if we had been playing in a new stadium that we had never seen and that we knew (and cared) nothing about.


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## Wezza (Jan 22, 2004)

Mr.Underground said:


> Rob, be honest do you think that England bid can take a sense of novelty for the fans?
> I think is based only on tradition with the usual London, with Manchester and its usual Old Trafford, without a sense of discover for the fan. Fans know what are going to view or to visit.
> Russia is different, it takes new emotion, new cities, new stadia, new feelings and for FIFA Russia could be a new market.


Hang on a minute, weren't you the same guy who was arguing that Qatar should get the 2022 WC in the Australia thread? And you're saying England has no novelty factor, do you think Qatar has? What are the tourists going to see? Some sand? :lol:

Anyways as far as 2018 goes, it doesn't worry me too much who gets it. I know England or Russia would put on an outstanding tournament.


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## Mo Rush (Nov 13, 2004)

JimB said:


> Err.......what on earth is wrong with that?
> 
> People absolutely love seeing in the flesh what they have long seen only on TV or in photographs. You see it at tourist sites around the world.....the Taj Mahal, the Pyramids and Sphynx, the Eiffel Tower, the Houses of Parliament, the Grand Canyon.....it's an amazing feeling actually to be there.
> 
> ...


Spot on.

Suoth Africans would given an arm and a leg to attend England 2018.


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## Mr.Underground (Jan 15, 2007)

JimB said:


> Err.......what on earth is wrong with that?
> 
> People absolutely love seeing in the flesh what they have long seen only on TV or in photographs. You see it at tourist sites around the world.....the Taj Mahal, the Pyramids and Sphynx, the Eiffel Tower, the Houses of Parliament, the Grand Canyon.....it's an amazing feeling actually to be there.
> 
> ...


Different points of view. I prefer the novelty effect than the traditional effect. You have, then, the possiblity to go to the historic Anfield or Old Trafford and to breath the feeling always.

And Russia gives me that novelty effect, gives me the sensation to discover something of new, a new product, not the usual product like english one.


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## Mr.Underground (Jan 15, 2007)

Wezza said:


> Hang on a minute, weren't you the same guy who was arguing that Qatar should get the 2022 WC in the Australia thread? And you're saying England has no novelty factor, do you think Qatar has? What are the tourists going to see? Some sand? :lol:
> 
> Anyways as far as 2018 goes, it doesn't worry me too much who gets it. I know England or Russia would put on an outstanding tournament.


In 2022 Qatar will have theme parks and venues incredible. They want to astonish the world and visitors, so Qatar will give the novelty factor that England doesn't garantee.

This my opinion, I don't ask you to share it, we have different opionion. No problem.


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## Mo Rush (Nov 13, 2004)

England may be something you may be accustomed to but its certainly a mind blowing thought to visit a WC in England for many others including those in England and surrounds.

London, Manchester and others are great cities each with their own fan experience, cultures etc.

Trying to compare Qatar to England is craziness. Whippee another shopping centre...?


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## JimB (Apr 7, 2005)

Mr.Underground said:


> Different points of view. I prefer the novelty effect than the traditional effect. You have, then, the possiblity to go to the historic Anfield or Old Trafford and to breath the feeling always.
> 
> And Russia gives me that novelty effect, gives me the sensation to discover something of new, a new product, not the usual product like english one.


But you still haven't addressed the inherent flaw in your "new is good, old is bad" argument.

Which is that, if FIFA were to adopt such an attitude, the only countries that would ever get to host the World Cup would be countries that didn't have, didn't need and, in most cases, couldn't afford the necessary stadium infrastructure that a World Cup demands.


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## Mo Rush (Nov 13, 2004)

England is traditional for some, and remains a novelty for millions of others around the world. I've been following EPL since the age of 5 so I'd much rather go to Old Trafford or Wembley than a random Russian venue built a few years before the WC.


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## JimB (Apr 7, 2005)

dacrio said:


> you made a mistake!
> 
> our lovely premier SILVIO BERLUSCONI (that represents the majority of italians) is the best friend of vladimir putin.
> 
> ...


I just looked in on the Italian forums and, on your FIFA 2018 poll, England have by far the highest percentage of support.

England - 42.25%
Russia - 19.72%
Holland / Belgium 8.5%
Spain / Portugal 8.5%

The remaining percentage was votes for the non European countries.

Since you and Mr Underground both post on that page, you must have seen the poll results thus far. You would also have read the majority of posts from fellow Italians that are fully in support of the England bid. It seems, therefore, that you haven't been entirely honest with us when you said that all of Italy supports the Russia bid ahead of the England bid.

Nice try, fellas, and better luck next time!


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

JimB said:


> But you still haven't addressed the inherent flaw in your "new is good, old is bad" argument.


To be fair I think he was speaking for himself, not for FIFA, which is fair enough.


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## JimB (Apr 7, 2005)

RobH said:


> To be fair I think he was speaking for himself, not for FIFA, which is fair enough.


Oh, yes, I understand that. I have no problem with Mr Underground preferring the Russian bid.

But that doesn't alter the fact that the reasoning is fundamentally flawed. It's the emphasis on new being better than old that is wrong.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Well, some FIFA execs may think that whilst others mightn't. And those who do may think it in Russia's case and not Qatar's or visa versa.

There's nothing fundamentally true about new being good and old being bad of course. We're starting to get into the realms of Platonic philsophy if we are going to discuss the fundemental properties of "newness" and "goodness". Maybe it'll make a refreshing change from talking about the British press but perhaps that's not the best road to go down!!

The question is, I suppose, how many FIFA execs will think like this, and what impact would it have on the future of the world cup if they do? They need to keep the powerbases happy; they can't afford to ignore England, Spain, Germany, Brazil etc, but equally they have to grow the game and Russia, perhaps apart from China and India (though they're both a long way off hosting right now), is the last big untapped country.


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## AlekseyVT (Dec 21, 2009)

Mo Rush said:


> England is traditional for some, and remains a novelty for millions of others around the world. I've been following EPL since the age of 5 so I'd much rather go to Old Trafford or Wembley than a random Russian venue built a few years before the WC.


Well, as we can see:
Euro2000 - first championship which was held in two states;
WC2002 - first WC which was held in two states; first WC in Asia;
SOG2008 - not first Olympic Games in Asia, but almost all sport infrastructure in Bejing was constructed in 21st century;
WC2010 - first WC in Africa;
Euro2012 - first championship in Eastern Europe;
WOG2014 - first Winter Olympics in Russia and in tropical zone;
SOG2016 - first Olympic Games in South America.

As you can see, we see a tendency that in the battle between the new 21st century and the traditional 20th century officials choose the first option. Not only officials from IOC, FIFA or UEFA, but also officials of the some other international sport federations.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

> As you can see, we see a tendency that in the battle between the new 21st century and the traditional 20th century officials choose the first option.


_Conveniently_ (!) missing out the 2000 and 2012 Olympics, 2002, 2006 _and_ 2010 Winter Olympics, 2006 World Cup and 2016 Euros. All of these went to repeat hosts over new frontiers.

FIFA have chosen Germany ahead of South Africa, UEFA have chosen France ahead of Turkey, and the IOC have chosen Britain (3 times host London), Canada (twice previous Olympic hosts), the USA (many, many Olympics), Australia (instead of Beijing!) and Italy in the last decade.

The balance is pretty much a 50/50 split between "traditional" hosts and new ones between 2000 and 2016. There's no tendency towards one or the other, unless you choose to only present half the story.


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## AlekseyVT (Dec 21, 2009)

Of course, Qatar is dynamically developing country with great potential and standart of life. But if we're talking about football, the difference between the traditions of Russia and Qatar is very big. Any investment program should have some basis, some roots. I do not see the football basis in Qatar.


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## AlekseyVT (Dec 21, 2009)

RobH said:


> Conveniently missing out the 2000 and 2012 Olympics, 2002, 2006 _and_ 2010 Winter Olympics, 2006 World Cup AND 2016 Euros all of which went to repeat hosts over new frontiers.
> 
> FIFA have chosen Germany, UEFA have chosen France, and the IOC have chosen Britain, Canada, the USA and Italy in the last decade. The balance is pretty much a 50/50 split actually. But don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.


OG2000 was battle between Sydney and Bejing. I''m think Sydney also can be classificated as non-traditional bid.

WOG2002 was battle between Salt Lake City, Ostersund, Sion and Quebec. Traditional bids.

*WorldCup 2006 - yes, Germany beat South Africa. But you must remember about scandal with New Zealand member, which voted for SA in 1st round, but don't want to support SA in final round. And finally, SA got WC2010 as compensation.*

WOG2006 was battle between Torino, Sion, Zakopane, Helsinki, Lillehammer. Traditional bids.

*WOG2010 was battle between Vancouver, Pyeongchang and Salzburg. Here I'm agree with you.*

OG2012 was battle between London, Paris, Madrid, New York and Moscow. Therefore it was choise between traditional bids.

*Euro2016 was battle between France, Turkey and Italy. Agreed.*

Comment: when I speak about "traditional bids", I mean experience of state or city in the holding of major international events (like Winter World Cups and championships for WOG, world championship in the different kinds of sport for SOG or major football matches for Euro and WC bids.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Regardless of the circumstances FIFA chose Germany ahead of South Africa, Sydney is a traditional bid as it's from Australia, a country that had hosted before and it beat Beijing so don't try to twist that one, the IOC chose London when it could have chosen one of two cities which had never hosted before. In all these cases the federations went with the traditional, tried-and-tested option over virgin territory. And then of course, as you say, we have France beating Turkey and Vancouver beating Pyeongchang also.

The argument is nowhere near as clear cut as you're trying to make it. Certainly Russia has the new territory appeal, and certainly FIFA have chosen to spread the game around in some recent tournaments. But FIFA have also chosen France and Germany recently; you don't hear me saying sports federations have a tendency towards traditional hosts to boost England's bid though because, like your claim, it'd be ignoring half the statistics!


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## Mo Rush (Nov 13, 2004)

South Africa has lost 3 consecutive Rugby WC bids, 1 FIFA WC bid


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## Mr.Underground (Jan 15, 2007)

JimB said:


> But you still haven't addressed the inherent flaw in your "new is good, old is bad" argument.
> 
> Which is that, if FIFA were to adopt such an attitude, the only countries that would ever get to host the World Cup would be countries that didn't have, didn't need and, in most cases, couldn't afford the necessary stadium infrastructure that a World Cup demands.


I am not saying to give a WC to a country, e.g. Botswana or Paraguay that has not the possibility to host a WC for stadia and infrastructure but this is not the case of Russia and Qatar, althought is a little country (600,000 inhabitans) don't know what means the expression "luck of money".

So if one bidder is EAU or Qatar that have not economic limit and a big desire to astonish the world, why don't give them the possibility.

Qatar has the potece to garantee a WC, have the possibility to garantee necessary stadia and infrastructures.


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## AlekseyVT (Dec 21, 2009)

RobH said:


> Regardless of the circumstances FIFA chose Germany ahead of South Africa,


Yes, but factually after this SA become organizer of WC2010 without any real alternative. FIFA changed the rules, and factually SA got WC2010 as result of voting for WC2006.



> Sydney is a traditional bid as it's from Australia, a country that had hosted before and it beat Beijing so don't try to twist that one, the IOC chose London when it could have chosen one of two cities which had never hosted before. In all these cases the federations went with the traditional, tried-and-tested option over virgin territory.


Australia and Asia hosted Olympic Games before voting for 2010, but it was 44 and 36 years ago. Therefore, Sydney and Bejing were new candidates because there were not so many sport events which were spent in these cities before.

And, yes, NY and Madrid were never spent Olympic Games. But it's difficult to speak that Madrid and especially NY haven't any infrastructure for spending OG2012. Both cities are world capitals, and there are a lot of major international events of any level which are host at these cities. Therefore, if IOC has given the Olympic Games to Madrid or New York, here there would be nothing revolutionary.


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## AlekseyVT (Dec 21, 2009)

RobH said:


> *But FIFA have also chosen France* and Germany recently;


Not FIFA, but UEFA. There are two separate organisations.



RobH said:


> you don't hear me saying sports federations have a tendency towards traditional hosts to boost England's bid though because, like your claim, it'd be ignoring half the statistics!


Even with you opinion I count only 4 examples when there was real choice between "traditional bid" (which was based on old infrastructure) and "perspective bid" (which was based on future infrastructure) - OG2010, WC2006, WOG2010 and Euro2016. It's not a half of statistic.


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## AlekseyVT (Dec 21, 2009)

Mo Rush said:


> South Africa has lost 3 consecutive Rugby WC bids


Rugby is really developed only in the few countries (GB, Ireland, France, SA, Australia, New Zealand and, may be, Argentina). Therefore the choice of organizer of Rugby WC is a choice between the "traditional" states which are organize all major competitions.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

AlekseyVT said:


> Not FIFA, but UEFA. There are two separate organisations.


I was quite obviously referring to 1998, I'm perfectly aware FIFA and UEFA aren't the same organisation :doh:


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## Mr.Underground (Jan 15, 2007)

^^ Aleksey, did you read the russian bid book?

What is planned for infrastructure and transport in Russia? 

Could you give a summary of metro, tram, railways planned for the event or no?


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## Steel City Suburb (Jun 13, 2007)

This thread is making me cringe.


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## AlekseyVT (Dec 21, 2009)

RobH said:


> I was quite obviously referring to 1998, I'm perfectly aware FIFA and UEFA aren't the same organisation :doh:


There is good tendency:
1990 Italy (traditional), 1994 United States (new);
1998 France (traditional), 2002 Japan & South Korea (new);
2006 Germany (traditional), 2010 South Africa (new);
2014 Brazil (traditional), 2018 ?

P.S. I think that Portugal 2004 and Austria & Switzerland 2008 also can't be determine as "traditional organizers of the major football competitions" according to European standarts.


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## kidrobot (Apr 27, 2009)

Mr.Underground said:


> What is planned for infrastructure and transport in Russia?
> 
> Could you give a summary of metro, tram, railways planned for the event or no?


I read the bid book quite some time ago, but i remember seeing plans for building new roads, airports, development of speed rail system and speed tram. If Russia gets the championship loads of money will be invested in infrastracture (which is outdated) - like they do now in Sochi.


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## AlekseyVT (Dec 21, 2009)

Mr.Underground said:


> ^^ Aleksey, did you read the russian bid book?
> 
> What is planned for infrastructure and transport in Russia?
> 
> Could you give a summary of metro, tram, railways planned for the event or no?


As for Metro - Moscow don't need in it. There are station near Olympic stadium Luzhniki, station near Dynamo stadium (now under reconstruction) and station near site of Spartak stadium (which are ready in construction since 1975, but don't have exit on surface because there is nothing built at the nearby territory). St.-Petersburg also haven't problem with Metro.

Sochi transport will be ready for Olympic Games. There will be more number of athletes and visitors than at WC.

Kazan will be host of Summer Universiade 2013. There are still have 6 Metro stations and planned to opened one station this year and four - in 2013.

Nizhniy Novgorod, Samara and Yekaterinburg have own Metros, but they need money for expansion. I'm hope that goverment will helped with it.

Plus they are planned to organise speed connection between cities. The speed trains are run now between Moscow-St. Petersburg, and Moscow-Nizhny Novgorod.


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## T74 (Jun 17, 2010)

AlekseyVT said:


> Australia and Asia hosted Olympic Games before voting for 2010, but it was 44 and 36 years ago. Therefore, Sydney and Bejing were new candidates because there were not so many sport events which were spent in these cities before.


Sorry to jump in on this thread, but this statement is absolutely wrong.

Between Melbourne 1956 and Sydney 2000, Australia had hosted the 1962 an d1982 Commonwealth Games, the 1987 Rugby World Cup, the 1992 Cricket World Cup, the 1998 FINA World Championships, a formula 1 GP since 1985, an annual grand slam in the Australian Open, and so on.

Australia was hardly sitting around "putting another shrimp on the barbie" in the wilderness for the 44 years


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## AlekseyVT (Dec 21, 2009)

T74 said:


> Sorry to jump in on this thread, but this statement is absolutely wrong.
> 
> Between Melbourne 1956 and Sydney 2000, Australia had hosted the 1962 an d1982 Commonwealth Games, the 1987 Rugby World Cup, the 1992 Cricket World Cup, the 1998 FINA World Championships, a formula 1 GP since 1985, an annual grand slam in the Australian Open, and so on.
> 
> Australia was hardly sitting around "putting another shrimp on the barbie" in the wilderness for the 44 years


Are Rugby, Cricket, Formula 1 were included in Olympic programme?

I'm just to say that before 2000 there were not so many world championships in the Olympic disciplines on the territory of Australia. Therefore it was relative new choice. And Australians did well work (better than Atlanta 1996 or Athens 2004). The Russian journalists wrote about it many times.


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## T74 (Jun 17, 2010)

AlekseyVT said:


> Are Rugby, Cricket, Formula 1 were included in Olympic programme?
> 
> I'm just to say that before 2000 there were not so many world championships in the Olympic disciplines on the territory of Australia. Therefore it was relative new choice. And Australians did well work (better than Atlanta 1996 or Athens 2004). The Russian journalists wrote about it many times.


no, but they are world class internationally reputed sporting events, which you have to have a clue to pull off

you assertion was that since 1956 Australia had not so many international sporting events. this is wrong


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## rus (Nov 20, 2009)

Presentation of the Kazan airport
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kle6G0KwxT8&feature=related


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## rus (Nov 20, 2009)

Combined route in Sochi under construction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8DBtEleWs8&feature=mfu_in_order&playnext=1&videos=p346gG02T_M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1tHP-WDEBg&feature=related


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## Wezza (Jan 22, 2004)

Mr.Underground said:


> In 2022 Qatar will have theme parks and venues incredible. They want to astonish the world and visitors, so Qatar will give the novelty factor that England doesn't garantee.
> 
> This my opinion, I don't ask you to share it, we have different opionion. No problem.


Theme parks? Give me a break. :lol:


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## rus (Nov 20, 2009)

High-speed trains Sapsan for now ply between Moscow-Piter and Moscow-Nizhny Novgorod. The following routes will be Moscow-Sochi and NN-Kazan. Until 2018 all major cities in European Russia will be linked network of the same train.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPQQlSMTs6Q
Toll road project Krasnodar-Kabardinka. Cost about 3 billion euros. Completion of construction until 2014.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL0itP2og3Q
New City Road in Central Sochi (16 km).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdiOKbebuKE&feature=related
Man-made island in Sochi " The Federation".
http://englishrussia.com/index.php/2007/09/29/new-island-in-russia/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZnNiruNCZg


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## AlekseyVT (Dec 21, 2009)

Alternative russian bid:


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## AlekseyVT (Dec 21, 2009)

*England's 2018 World Cup bid team demand apology from rivals Russia

• Russian bid leader had highlighted crime and alcohol abuse
• England 2018 believes claims contravene Fifa bidding rules*

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/oct/26/england-2018-world-cup-bid

England's 2018 bid team have made a formal complaint to Fifa following derogatory comments by their main rival Russia about London. Officials have demanded a public apology after Alexei Sorokin, the Russian bid leader, last week highlighted London's "high crime rate" and youth alcohol problems.

England 2018 believe his claims contravene Fifa's bidding rules prohibiting comments about rival World Cup bidders and the governing body will write to Sorokin seeking an explanation.

Today in Zurich, where most of the bidding nations have gathered for the International Football Arena conference, Sorokin said he was misinterpreted and tried to play down the feud.

"I don't feel that what I said originally requires an apology," he said. "I am sure there is a record of that which, if forced, I will have to find."

Sorokin also questioned the timing of England's "strange complaint" to FIFA. "I am surprised that it is now, at this time. The world of football has other issues to focus on," he said.

However, that does not seem to have appeased England 2018, although it is unlikely Fifa's ethics committee will take the complaint any further given their already stretched schedule in investigating allegations of vote rigging ahead of the final vote on 2 December to decide which country will host the tournament.

Sorokin had told Russian daily Sports Express: "We do not enter into squabbles, although we have much to say. It's no secret, for example, that in London they have the highest crime rate compared with other European cities, and the highest level of alcohol consumption among young people."

Sorokin insisted Russia had no real problem with racism and pointed out that anti-Glazer fans had burned a Stars and Stripes flag at Old Trafford.

He said: "We could have a conversation about the lack of tolerance and the inciting of ethnic hatred by English fans. But we do not behave like someone who is always saying bad things about their neighbours."

The following day, Sorokin added: "Yes, that's what I said - but it is true" and later the Russian bid apologised with a spokesman saying: "Mr Sorokin regrets if his statements have led to such an erroneous interpretation and understanding."


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## Mr.Underground (Jan 15, 2007)

^^ I'm a fan of Russia 2018, but stop to have arguments against England.

You have a better bid and is useful to fight against England, english ad its press. The only thing important is the bid, and you have the best one.


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## AlekseyVT (Dec 21, 2009)

*England and Russia bid to be different in race for 2018 World Cup

There are many similarities in England and Russia's 2018 World Cup bids but the countries will stress the differences to Fifa*

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/oct/27/england-russia-world-cup-2018

Russia's ambitious bid to host the 2018 World Cup is the mirror image of England's but, as the vote on 2 December approaches, the two will do everything they can to differentiate their offers.

That was the case even before England's official complaint to Fifa over the reported comments of the Russian bid's chief executive, Alexei Sorokin, about London's problems with crime and binge drinking, remarks made in apparent contravention of the bidding rules.

What was already a spiky contest between Russia, still the favourite for many close to the process, England and Spain/Portugal, which has kept a low profile and relied on the formidable networking skills of Fifa ex-co member Angel Maria Villar Llona but is now under investigation following rumours of vote trading, is about to get even feistier.

England's bid is pitched as a safe bet, with many of the stadiums already built and a promised £161m operating profit for Fifa on top of record TV and sponsorship revenues. Its ambitious legacy claims centre on what it can do for football around the world with the millions that will be generated from a country where football is already a huge money spinner and top-flight stadiums packed with fans.

In contrast, Russia's bid – as showcased yesterday at the International Football Arena conference – relies on appealing to the not insubstantial ego of the Fifa executive committee. It will, they promise, take the World Cup into new and uncharted territory, opening up vast new commercial markets and leaving a legacy of shiny new stadiums and an infrastructure for the sport.

Where England highlight sold out Premier League grounds, Russia point to the potential for increasing attendances if their stadia are upgraded, with 14 of the 16 proposed due to be built from scratch. The obligatory references to legacy come thick and fast in all Russia's presentations, along with subtle but telling reminders that they have never hosted the World Cup.

It also plays to the tendency for Fifa executive committee members to think of themselves as social engineers on a grand scale, with Sorokin today talking about what the World Cup could do to break down "misconceptions" and showcase "the new Russia".

Perhaps crucially, though, the Russians are also trying to paint the bid as risk-free. There is a theory that the recent outbreak of corruption allegations may make voters more risk-adverse and more open to suggestion from the Fifa president, Sepp Blatter, and the general secretary, Jérôme Valcke, about where to place their bets.

Government guarantees to make up any shortfall, underwrite free train travel for fans between cities and invest $6bn [£3.8bn] in infrastructure all back up the case but raise questions about its reliance on government support. So Sorokin was at pains to highlight the extent to which the huge investment will also be supported by private enterprise. "The Dynamo stadium is a great example of it, financed by Russian VTB Bank and built on the city of Moscow's land. It's going to be a classic showcase for many other stadiums.

"We develop naturally, so it's not correct to say that we intend to make this the most expensive World Cup. We just spend this money on improving our life and intend to do so regardless of the 2 December decision. In general the World Cup will create jobs, boost tourism and bring money into the country. We are certain in indirect ways it will be profitable."

The deep pockets of the Russian bid, partly funded by oligarchs including Roman Abramovich, have attracted envious looks from rivals and the usual dark mutterings about the uses to which they might be put, all vigorously denied.

In the wake of the negative publicity the Russian bid has received over incidents of racism, which came to be symbolised by a banner directed at West Bromwich striker Peter Odemwingie by fans of his former club Lokomotiv Moscow, and sporadic outbreaks of violent hooliganism, it has become sensitive to criticism. That has played into a distrust of the British press.

Sorokin, speaking after his presentation, said: "When you have a society of 145m people, there are outbreaks but they do not represent a trend. You can say that about any social disease. Go to Kazan and see how people of different religions and ethnicities live side by side. I always have an impression that we are the only ones prone to these things but it springs up all over the world. We are no different. Only last week the Russian football union adopted a memorandum on combating any racist intolerance."

In his presentation, Sorokin tried to make a virtue of another obvious criticism of Russia's bid - that the country is just too big, with the bid proposal stretching from Kalingrad on the Polish border to Yekaterinburg beyond the Ural mountains in the east.

"Our country has nine time zones, a population of 145m people, over 180 nationalities live in peace and harmony in a huge land that stretches from west to east," he said.

The Russian bid proposes to group its stadiums into four geographic clusters in a bid to mitigate the concerns of fans and TV schedulers.

Whatever the relative merits of the bids the final decisions will be arrived at through a mixture of their ability to deliver, emotional pull, political expediency, favours returned and - for some, it appears - financial gain.

It is becoming increasingly clear that this race will go to the wire. The recent allegations of corruption and collusion have only served to muddy the waters further and all bidders now believe the final few days of ferocious lobbying will be crucial.

As with the IOC process, the final presentations and even the final minutes before the vote will assume greater importance.

England will be hoping to persuade prime minister David Cameron, David Beckham and Prince William to make the trip while Sorokin confirmed the Russian bid was still hoping Vladimir Putin would repeat his show-stealing personal appearance that helped secure the 2014 Sochi Winter Olympics. That project has since become a bellwether for supporters and critics alike of the World Cup bid. "It has become his great idea to host a World Cup in Russia. We hope he will inspire people," said Sorokin. "It's no secret that Putin is keen on sports development. He has done a lot for the development of our industry."

Minutes before he was told that England's formal complaint had reignited the row about his ill-advised attempt to discuss the varying approaches of the British and Russian media, Sorokin promised that despite all the noises off, allegations of dirty tricks and investigations into corruption he would maintain focus as the race entered its end game.

"I honestly think that all the focus of our attention will be on the final presentation. We'll do whatever it takes to really impress the Ex-co with a great performance on stage. We will try to surprise in a good way."


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## AlekseyVT (Dec 21, 2009)

*Russian official slams England's 'absolutely primitive' World Cup bid

• Fifa to discuss separating 2018 and 2022 World Cup votes
• Governing body unable to act on latest comments*

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/oct/28/russia-england-world-cup-bid-primitive

The bitterness over the 2018 World Cup intensified last night when one of the most senior figures in Russian football damned England's bid as "absolutely primitive" and the situation as "comical".

As Fifa's shell-shocked executive committee gathers today to discuss the possibility of postponing the vote for the 2022 tournament until a later date in the wake of corruption allegations, England's team was last night considering its response to the outburst from the honorary president of the Russian Football Union.

Senior England 2018 sources believe Vyacheslav Koloskov's intervention could be a ploy, designed to provoke them into a response that would itself fall foul of Fifa's rules forbidding bidders from commenting on their rivals. *Because Koloskov, a former longstanding Uefa and Fifa executive committee member, is not a formal member of the bid team, he falls outside the rules, despite lobbying extensively on Russia's behalf.*

The dispute exploded on Tuesday when, during a presentation by the Russian chief executive Alexei Sorokin in Zurich, it emerged England had submitted an official complaint to Fifa demanding an apology over his reported comments on London's crime rate and youth alcoholism.

Despite anger at what they saw as repeated attempts to undermine England's bid by making slurs and then blaming them on mistranslation or misconception, insiders insist they wanted the dispute to remain private. But Koloskov said the complaint was an admission that England were behind in the race to host the 2018 World Cup and they were rattled. He also referred to the recent Sunday Times investigation that has left Fifa battling to salvage its reputation.

*"It's a comical situation. The English are afraid of how badly their bid is going. Their journalists are provoking members of the committee, and they now say one of the members of our bidding team has spoken out against England in an improper manner,"* he told the Russian website championat.ru. *"I think it's a raising of tensions, and also an attempt to in some way influence the work of our bidding team."*

Sorokin has maintained that his comments were misinterpreted, and that he was merely drawing attention to the tactics used by the English media to discredit the Russian bid. He was reported as saying: "It's no secret, for example, that in London they have the highest crime rate compared with other European cities, and the highest level of alcohol consumption among young people."

*"These acts have little chance of success. Russia should not be afraid of sanctions. There won't even be an investigation,"* said Koloskov of England's complaint to Fifa, which said yesterday it had spoken to both sides. *"The behaviour of the English is absolutely primitive. Instead of talking about their own excellence and merits, they try to put off their opponents."*

Earlier, Sorokin said he had written to the England bid team to explain his actions but would not be apologising formally. "I just expressed my regret over the whole thing, it was just a misunderstanding," he said. "It wasn't a formal apology because I don't feel like I've broken any rules. All of us in the Russian bid team have a great deal of respect for our English colleagues and I'd like to think they respect us as well. I hope we can put this matter to rest for good now."

After Koloskov's intervention there now seems little chance of that, and England will have to decide whether to risk inflaming the situation further or accept Sorokin's clarification.

The Fifa executive committee will meet today, meanwhile, for the first time since two of its number, Amos Adamu and Reynald Temarii, were provisionally suspended in the wake of the Sunday Times investigation that appeared to show them agreeing to accept money in return for their votes.

It is understood that one of the items on the agenda will be a recommendation to separate the votes for the 2018 and 2022 World Cups, postponing the latter until a later date. The plan would seek to remove the shadow of potential collusion between blocs of voters but will meet stiff opposition from some on the executive committee who believe it would unfairly punish the 2022 bidders.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Perhaps he should heed his own words.


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## MysteryMike (Sep 16, 2010)

Perhaps none of the Russians should speak full stop. Whatever comes out doesn't exactly help Russia now does it. I think every time Russia has come out and said something, an equal or worse reaction has happened back at home. You'd think they would've learnt their lesson by now.


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## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

MysteryMike said:


> Perhaps none of the Russians should speak full stop. Whatever comes out doesn't exactly help Russia now does it. I think every time Russia has come out and said something, an equal or worse reaction has happened back at home. You'd think they would've learnt their lesson by now.


Perhaps you should stop throwing racist comments and insults all over the board.


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## MysteryMike (Sep 16, 2010)

coth said:


> Perhaps you should stop throwing racist comments and insults all over the board.


Like I said people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones


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## Steel City Suburb (Jun 13, 2007)

coth said:


> Perhaps you should stop throwing racist comments and insults all over the board.


:lol: Give me some examples where he has been racist.


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## Mo Rush (Nov 13, 2004)

coth said:


> Perhaps you should stop throwing racist comments and insults all over the board.


*Dear Forumers*

For the 43rd time, accusations of racism, and racist remarks will treated equally and both will be considered seriously.

Please report racist remarks via PM to moderators or by reporting posts or using other means.

We will no longer tolerate accusations of racism when you've run out of things to say, and can no longer debate an issue.

*This is the FINAL warning.*


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## WFInsider (Oct 27, 2010)

> *“Legacy after World Cup in Russia will be immense” – 2018 World Cup bid chief (Video)*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://rt.com/Top_News/2010-11-04/world-cup-bid-sorokin.html


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## WFInsider (Oct 27, 2010)

> *Supporters will travel free on public transport if Russia wins 2018 vote, promises sports minister*
> 
> _England's bidding rival pledges three-point action plan to win over doubters..._
> 
> ...


http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2885...ill-travel-free-on-public-transport-if-russia


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## plasticterminator (Jul 23, 2007)

RUSSIA TO WIN!


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## OnceBittenTwiceShy (Mar 14, 2010)

> Russian football legend Aleksandr Bubnov has said that his country is not ready to host the 2018 World Cup. The famous Dynamo Stadium pitch, which is the site for the new showpiece arena for the 2018 World Cup if Russia's bid is successful, is in shambles and stands are a mass of tangled metal and torn up plastic seats. Aleksandr said: "Russia isn't ready to host the 2018 World Cup, I'm afraid. As of today, Russia hasn't a single stadium, which would meet the requirement of a World Cup. In my opinion England could hold the World Cup now - and that's before all the investment that will pour in."
> 
> "England invented football. The World Cup there in 1966 is now long ago and you have the best league in the world. I think 2018 will go England's way," The decision is to be announced by Fifa, the world football's governing body, on December 2. Aleksandr said his nation is unprepared for the tournament due to *Russia's virulent corruption, both in football and wider society*, its lack of infrastructure and the need for the development of the national team.
> 
> ...


What is or has been the reception of the Russian 'public opinion' regarding this piece? 


I'm not in a position to question the USSR's 'readiness', as in being prepared to host the event, beating any deadline. 

I've conveniently highlighted the bleeding obvious excerpts to handsomely facilitate any anticipated and appreciated response.


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## NorteN (Jul 24, 2009)

plasticterminator said:


> RUSSIA TO WIN!


hno:hno:hno:


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## WFInsider (Oct 27, 2010)

OnceBittenTwiceShy said:


> What is or has been the reception of the Russian 'public opinion' regarding this piece?
> 
> 
> I'm not in a position to question the USSR's 'readiness', as in being prepared to host the event, beating any deadline.
> ...


This is one of the Bubnov's quotes:


> In general, domestic football is now on the verge of collapse. "
> 
> "We must bring order in Russian football, because his death is getting closer and closer.


He also "predicted" resignation of Advocaat after Russia-Slovakia game. So what? Kind of a very pessimistic man, I guess.
He made this "Russia is not ready to host the 2018 World Cup" statement staying on Dynamo stadium. But, for sure, he didn't know that start of the construction will be only in summer 2011.
Having corruption is not a secret, especially when Medvedev announced a huge struggle against corrupted officials, who can't change their behaviour after chaotic 1990s. Don't worry. People are a lot more critical in Russia than you even can imagine. Sometimes they are over-critical and bitching themselves without normal reason. This is for those who think that "they can only bow to the great leader", and other fairytales.

What can be a reaction? Just like any reaction on "prediction".


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## AlekseyVT (Dec 21, 2009)

OnceBittenTwiceShy said:


> What is or has been the reception of the Russian 'public opinion' regarding this piece?


Listen, Bubnov is only one of the journalists and football analysts. He, of course, have right on own opinion. If you can read Russian subforum, you can find similar skeptical positions among some Russians. It's named pluralism and freedom of discussion.



OnceBittenTwiceShy said:


> I'm not in a position to question the USSR's 'readiness', as in being prepared to host the event, beating any deadline.


USSR died 19 years ago. I think that 7 years is normal term. For example, construction of Olympic objects in Sochi for WOG2014 was started since 2007. Kazan will be host Summer Universiade in 2013. Moscow and St. Petersburg have developed infrastructure.



> I've conveniently highlighted the bleeding obvious excerpts to handsomely facilitate any anticipated and appreciated response.


He said about corruption. I think that every Russian schoolboy heard about it. However, it does not prevent to build new sport stadiums.


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## Trelawny (Jan 9, 2010)

I was watching on CNN that this journalist got his ass kicked for no reason?? Don't know if it's safe for people if journalist get beaten?


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## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

What does it has to do with the topic?


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## Trelawny (Jan 9, 2010)

coth said:


> What does it has to do with the topic?


Because it was in downtown Moscow where everyone will be. And many journalist will be coming to write stories.


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## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

i'm sure i can find a single report on children kidnapings in london. then should i question whatever uk bid is safe because of it?


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## Rev Stickleback (Jun 23, 2009)

Trelawny said:


> I was watching on CNN that this journalist got his ass kicked for no reason?? Don't know if it's safe for people if journalist get beaten?


The speculation suggests that it wasn't for "no reason", but linked to his investigations into a controversial road project. Another journalist reporting the same issue was also attacked.

While it might suggest that reporting on certain stories can be much more dangerous than the same activities in the west, it doesn't mean that journalists going to cover the world cup will have anything to worry about.


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## AlekseyVT (Dec 21, 2009)

OnceBittenTwiceShy said:


> *Russian football legend* Aleksandr Bubnov has said that his country is not ready to host the 2018 World Cup.


Does anybody in Britain heard about this *legend* before the publishing of this article? :lol: 



OnceBittenTwiceShy said:


> The famous Dynamo Stadium pitch, which is the site for the new showpiece arena for the 2018 World Cup if Russia's bid is successful, is in shambles and stands are a mass of tangled metal and torn up plastic seats.


Luzhniki was reconstructed within two years in 1995-1997 when financial situation in Russia was much worse than today. As result stadium got 5-stars from UEFA. Dynamo is smaller stadium than Luzhniki.


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## WFInsider (Oct 27, 2010)

Trelawny said:


> I was watching on CNN that this journalist got his ass kicked for no reason?? Don't know if it's safe for people if journalist get beaten?


According to www.nationmaster.com , Total crimes (per capita):

#6 - United Kingdom: 85.5517 per 1,000 people
#8 - United States: 80.0645 per 1,000 people
#9 - Netherlands: 79.5779 per 1,000 people
#28 - Spain: 22.8867 per 1,000 people
#31 - Russia: 20.5855 per 1,000 people

Kidnappings:
#1 - United Kingdom

I hope it will cool your head.


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## OnceBittenTwiceShy (Mar 14, 2010)

WFInsider said:


> Having corruption is not a secret, especially when Medvedev announced a huge struggle against corrupted officials, who can't change their behaviour after chaotic 1990s. Don't worry.


I'm not worried at all. Russia is corrupted to the bone. This will be the driving force and incentive to get infrastructure and stadiums ready in time; should the USSR bid be rewarded in the first place.


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## Tillor87 (Feb 5, 2008)

Davai Rossiya

I fully support you guys


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## AlekseyVT (Dec 21, 2009)

OnceBittenTwiceShy said:


> I'm not worried at all. Russia is corrupted to the bone. This will be the driving force and incentive to get infrastructure and stadiums ready in time; should the USSR bid be rewarded in the first place.


Luzhniki stadium (78360) was reconstructed within 2 years (1995-1997).

The Luzhniki Stadium was chosen by UEFA to host the 2008 UEFA Champions League Final won by Manchester United who beat Chelsea in the first all English Champions League Final on May 21. Prior to the match some skeptics questioned the state of the pitch and also the ability of Russian authorities to keep order amongst the traveling British fans, however the match passed incident free and a *British Embassy in Moscow spokesman said, "The security and logistical arrangements put in place by the Russian authorities have been first-rate, as has been their cooperation with their visiting counterparts from the UK."*

Lokomotiv stadium (28800 seats) was fully destroyed and rebuilt again within 2 years (2000-2002):









*Therefore, despite of opinion of Western propaganda, 7 years is more than need for construction of the new stadiums.*


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