# UEFA Euro 2032 Bids



## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

Italy looks at 2032 instead of 2028.

*OFFICIAL - Italy to bid to host Euro 2032: football federation.*

The Italian National Football Federation (FIGC) said Monday it had written to UEFA manifesting an interest to host the European championships in 2032. Italy hosted the championships in 1968 and 1980. "In the last few days the Italian Football Federation presented to UEFA its expression of interest for hosting Euro 2032," the FIGC said in a statement.

Italian football's governing body said that it wanted to modernize the country's stadium infrastructure by building new grounds and redeveloping existing arenas. It made its intentions clear well over a month before UEFA's March 23 deadline, with definitive projects for the hosting of the tournament to be submitted by April 2023. The executive committee of European soccer's ruling body will make its decision in September 2023. 









Organizzazione Euro 2032, la FIGC ha presentato la manifestazione d'interesse


La Uefa assegnerà a settembre le edizioni 2028 e 2032: la Federcalcio ha espresso...




www.figc.it


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

As I said in another thread, the Italian bid would likely have the following cities at least: 
Turin, Genoa, Milan, Verona, Bologna, Florence, Rome, Naples, Bari, Palermo, Cagliari.


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

All the news over 2028/2030/2032 aligns perfectly. Looks like Uefa members have figured everything out behind the scenes. UK gets 2028, Spain/Portugal 2030 and Italy 2032. 

Italy changing to 2032 means they have greenlight. 

Good outcome all around.


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## Light Tower (Nov 29, 2020)

I think Italy is good enough for the UEFA Euro 2032.


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## Clery (Dec 5, 2010)

Ramanaramana said:


> All the news over 2028/2030/2032 aligns perfectly. Looks like Uefa members have figured everything out behind the scenes. UK gets 2028, Spain/Portugal 2030 and Italy 2032.
> 
> Italy changing to 2032 means they have greenlight.
> 
> Good outcome all around.


So England will organize both Euro 2020 and Euro 2028?


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

Clery said:


> So England will organize both Euro 2020 and Euro 2028?


If you want to look at it that hosting 8 matches out of 51 is the same as hosting 51, then yes.


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## Clery (Dec 5, 2010)

Ramanaramana said:


> If you want to look at it that hosting 8 matches out of 51 is the same as hosting 51, then yes.


Oh come on, that was a joke because England played 6 out of 7 games at home. Chill out.


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

Hi guys  I've made a list of cities that I think could be included in the Italian bid, considering location and size.
Also, there is a little description about the current state of the facilities + facts or rumors.

_*Completed (or could get some works)*_
*Olympic Stadium (72,698)*
Rome, Lazio










*Juventus Allianz Stadium (41,507)*
Turin, Piemonte

































_*At advanced stage:*_
*New San Siro Stadium / The Cathedral of Football (60,000-65,000)*
Milan
*The proposed stadium should be built in the parking lot nearby to the existing Meazza.*
_Investment: AC Milan + FC Internazionale Milano (650 million euros for the stadium alone). _​
The Municipality already gave the proposed mixed-use project the status of 'public interest' and indicated the clubs a series of "guidelines" to improve the project and follow the current urban planning laws in place. As for the stadium, however, clubs have recently picked the winning finalist proposal and are now moving to the executive project. Papers will then be submitted to Municipality offices, a votation in the Council will likely be held by the year-end. Likely opening of the new stadium for the 2026-2027 football season.

THE DESIGN BELOW REGARDS THE STADIUM AREA ONLY - THE FINAL DESIGN VERSION IS TO BE DELIVERED.







































*New Franchi Stadium (40,000)*
Florence, Toscana
*New structures + architectural chucks having heritage status.*
_Investment: Italy's Ministry of Cultural Heritage Ministry + Municipality of Florence (145 million euros for the stadium alone). _​
Fiorentina FC could decide to participate in the following months. In a recent interview, the Mayor said the goal is to open it by 2026. Another 50 million euros should be invested to redevelop the Campo di Marte area, creating new green-pedestrian and commercial spaces (outside that of the stadium).

WINNING PROJECT OF THE INTERNATIONAL DESIGN COMPETITION TO BE UNVEILED IN MARCH 2022.
A JURY OF EXPERTS WAS NOMINATED TO SELECT THE BEST PROPOSAL THAT BEST FITS WITH THE DEMANDS OF THE COMPETITION.

*New Dall'Ara Stadium (30,000)*
Bologna, Emilia-Romagna
*New structures + architectural chucks having heritage status.*
_Investment: Municipality of Bologna + Bologna FC (120 million euros). _​
The bureaucratic process ended positively. Likely opening for the 2024-2025 football season. As part of the plans, a temporary stadium will be realized to allow the team to avoid the transfer to another city. Then, that "temporary" stadium will be converted to host the women's and young's teams.































*New Cagliari Arena (30,000)*
Cagliari, Sardegna
*The proposed stadium should be built in the area occupied by the Sant'Elia.*
_Investment: Sardegna Region + Cagliari FC (70 million euros). _​Bureaucratic process near to the end, there are some delays due to the local football club. Mayor told them to move on.































_*Planned:*_

*New AS Roma Stadium (60,000-65,000)*
Rome, Lazio 
_Investment: AS Roma (?). _​The club's new owner already met the new Mayor and they are looking for a new site, different than Tor Di Valle. Local press reported that various options are taken in consideration, but two are on top right now. One is nearby Rome's second-busiest rail station, the other in an area nearby the Tiber River, full of AS Roma fans.

_*Existing stadia that could be demolished and replaced by new ones:*_

*San Paolo/Maradona Stadium (54,726)*
Naples, Campania​The Municipality has sent a list of Municipality-owned assets to Invimit, the company managed by Italy's Ministry of Economy and Finance that deals with real estate investments and their enhancement and/or disposal. The list includes the San Paolo/Diego Armando Maradona Stadium and other sports facilities that will be evaluated. Invimit has the task to extract from that list the "most attractive" assets for the Italian and international market and put them on sale where possible. Here we could see an operation similar to Bergamo, where a public auction was launched. I think that a new 45-000/50,000-seats stadium could replace it.









*San Nicola Stadium (58,270)*
Bari, Puglia​The Italian Institute for Sports Credit (ICS) had begun a study to replace it. With the collaboration of the Municipality. Unclear the position of Bari FC. I think that a new stadium in Bari would likely have a capacity of 30,000/40,000 seats.









*Bentegodi Stadium (39,211)*
Verona, Veneto 
Same as above + Hellas Verona FC. A new stadium in Verona would likely have a capacity of 30,000.









_*Existing stadia that could get a makeover*_*:*

*Marassi/Ferraris Stadium (36,599)*
Genoa, Liguria
Investment of the ICS + Genoa and Sampdoria.

















*Barbera Stadium (36,365)*
Palermo, Sicilia
Investment of the ICS?







​


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

^^^
As "outsiders" I put the following stadia (mostly middle-size, 'secondary' cities):

*Friuli Dacia Arena (25,144)*
Udine, Friuli-Venezia Giulia
_Investment of Udinese FC._
Completed.

















*Gewiss Stadium (26,000)*
Bergamo, Lombardia 
_ Investment of Atalanta FC: 35 million euros._
Currently, U/C is being done step by step.









































*New Tardini (23,000)*
Parma, Emilia-Romagna
_Investment of Parma FC: 90 million euros._​Planned. The Municipality has already got the status of 'public interest' to the proposed project. The executive design will be delivered to the Municipality offices; the Council will then give the final green light.

THE FINAL DESIGN VERSION IS TO BE DELIVERED.





























*New Partenio-Lombardi (21,500)*
Avellino, Campania
_Investment of Avellino FC + ICS: 60 million euros._
Planned.






























Others could be:
*San Filippo (41,000) - Messina, Sicilia. *A bit renovated with new roof.
*Arechi (37,000) - Salerno, Campania. *Same as above.
*Via del Mare (31,000) - Lecce, Puglia.* Same as above.
*Granillo (27,000) - Reggio Calabria, Calabria. *There was a rumor about doing an operation similar to Bari, Verona.
*Nereo Rocco (26,000) - Trieste, Friuli-Venezia Giulia. *Some works could be done.
*Braglia (22,000) - Modena, Reggio-Emilia. * Planned. (investment of Modena FC).
*Curi (23,000)* *- Perugia, Umbria.* Some works could be done.

However, I am excluding other realities (eg. Venice). Anyway, given the current requirements, some of them could not be eligible due to their capacity.

But let's wait to see what are the plans of the Italian National Football Federation


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

Italy will have a real nice set of stadiums with all those. 

I also reckon if UEFA expands to 32, which will happen at some point, stadiums over 20,000 should come into consideration. Or at the very least 25,000.


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## CWells2000 (May 6, 2018)

Ramanaramana said:


> Italy will have a real nice set of stadiums with all those.
> 
> I also reckon if UEFA expands to 32, which will happen at some point, stadiums over 20,000 should come into consideration. Or at the very least 25,000.


I think sticking with 30,000 is the right way forward.


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## Laurence2011 (Mar 4, 2011)

Italy makes so much sense, everything is falling into place with the next few tournaments


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## Light Tower (Nov 29, 2020)

Laurence2011 said:


> Italy makes so much sense, everything is falling into place with the next few tournaments


Yes i agree.


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## mkoslo (Nov 18, 2021)

This is a great thread. Hope Italy will Get it 🤞


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## alex_4545 (11 mo ago)

Relieved that Italy decided to push their bid to 2032, as I think they did not have enough time for 2028. If things fall in good place, I think that Italy can put a really nice foot forward. For the host cities, it would be the same as Italia 90' minus Udine.

The plans are good for Milan, Cagliari, Bologna. I am very curious to see the design proposal for Florence.

The stadium in Palermo has a really nice skeleton to build something really good. A roof and facade and re-seating it of course with barrier removals. Same with Genoa.

Verona and Naples need some radical solutions.


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

if eight years are not enough then twelve aren‘t either!


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Errr....six years, it's 2022. 

And we know how slow the Italian planning process can be.

Seems sensible.


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## matthias23 (Oct 28, 2017)

Ramanaramana said:


> All the news over 2028/2030/2032 aligns perfectly. Looks like Uefa members have figured everything out behind the scenes. UK gets 2028, Spain/Portugal 2030 and Italy 2032.
> 
> Italy changing to 2032 means they have greenlight.
> 
> Good outcome all around.



looks really good, and would be amazing 4 years for big events in Europe.
If you include Germany 2024, then we have 8 years of amazing host nations for big football events inEurope

And this way we avoid Russia and Turkey!


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

Some updates from Florence. It will likely be a bidding city of "Italia Euro 2032".

*Florence, Toscana*
(+40,000)
*Renovation of the work of architect-engineer Pier Luigi Nervi "Artemio Franchi Stadium" and the Campo di Marte area.*
New structures + architectural chucks that have "heritage" status.

Winning project is that of the design team composed by:
ARUP Italia, Mario Cucinella Architects, Cupelloni Architettura, Systematica, Laura Gatti and others.




*Interventions that are going to be done thanks to the investments (€450 million) coming from the various Ministries of the Italian government:*

- Major renovation of the Artemio Franchi Stadium, including demolition and reconstruction work; architecture chunks having heritage status (eg. Maratona Tower, helicoidal stairs, etc.) will be maintained, restored, and integrated into the project. The works will also regard the creation of all services in a modern stadium (eg. restaurants, shops, Skybox, football museum, etc).

- The Campo di Marte area will comprise a series of commercial, tertiary spaces (besides that included in the stadium), sporting activities (eg. skatepark, gyms, swimming pool, sports fields, etc.), and a series of services for the community (eg. market).

- Refurbishment of public areas with new green-pedestrian spaces and bike paths as well. Furthermore, the Viale Paoli will be transformed into a semi-pedestrianized avenue. While the pedestrian underpass connecting Viale Mannelli with Largo Gennarelli will be completed.

- Construction of a new tramway line (6.5km and 15 stops) serving the Franchi Stadium and the surrounding areas. The line will be connected to the existing Florence's tramway network, in order to allow people to reach the Campo di Marte area also from Florence Santa Maria Novella rail station and Florence's historic center (a UNESCO World Heritage site), Florence south and highway.

- Construction of a new parking building with 3000 stalls, to be added to existing parkings. The building will be created between the Campo di Marte area and the Florence Campo di Marte rail station (which can also be used to reach the stadium).

***​The project will now be improved. We'll see in the next months. The goal is to lay the foundation stone for the 'new' Franchi in the autumn of 2023, between October and November, and then be able to finish the works by the end of 2026.


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## Laurence2011 (Mar 4, 2011)

That's a really interesting adaptation of the old tribunes into an auditorium, never seen that before and I imagine it'll save money with demolition and building a new façade


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

Laurence2011 said:


> That's a really interesting adaptation of the old tribunes into an auditorium, never seen that before and I imagine it'll save money with demolition and building a new façade


One old curve will host auditorium/cinema, the other a museum.
New curves built close to the pitch. Rest of old chuncks integrated with the new one.



>



Here's the description of the preliminary project:



IThomas said:


> *New Franchi Stadium and Campo di Marte area, the technical sheet of the preliminary project.*
> What the winning team (ARUP Italia, Mario Cucinella Architects, Systematica, Cupelloni Architettura, Laura Gatti) says:
> 
> *The sustainability strategy of the master plan is based on achieving a Net Zero Carbon development through the implementation of energy and water management strategies aimed at enhancing the symbiotic relationship between the stadium, the park and the other buildings.* The result is an innovative district that promotes the recovery and sharing of energy between the various urban users.
> ...


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## miguelon (Oct 25, 2006)

Wow, that proposal has a lot of potential,

Personally, I would love to have a major tournament back in Italy, there is always something special, when major countries play at home, and using the games landmark venues for finals, etc.
But at this moment, Italy needs serious redevelopment on its stadiums. with the exception of Juventus, everything else is stuck in the 90's.


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## Light Tower (Nov 29, 2020)

Laurence2011 said:


> That's a really interesting adaptation of the old tribunes into an auditorium, never seen that before and I imagine it'll save money with demolition and building a new façade


It could be possible.


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## Roxven (Jun 29, 2013)

I present You *POLAND* candidacy for UEFA *EURO** 2032*.










I believe Poland have quite decent chance to host one of upcomming EURO's, but this time as single host.

Why you ask? Few order of magnitudes better infrastructure than as cohost in 2012. 

Almost 9k highway network will be fully completed.










Multiple already builded brand new stadiums. 

Number 1 sport in PL. 

Poland don't have a slightest chance to host WC so it's primary focus will be on hosting EURO's. (I strongly believe that big European countries (Eng, Ger, Sp, Ita, Fra, Tur) should only focus on hosting WC while smaller European federations should focus on hosting EURO).

2012 edition was Ukrainian idea and Poland was only supporting it (final in Kyiev).

Poland didn't host any game during EURO 2020.

Stadiums that could host EURO are:

*1. Stadion Narodowy (60k) - Builded 2012 - Location: WARSZAWA (metro 3,1 mln ppl)


























2. Stadion Śląski (55k) - Builded 1956/2017 - Location: CHORZÓW (metro 3,5 mln ppl)


























3. Stadion Tarczyński Arena (45k) - Builded 2011- Location: WROCŁAW (metro 1,0 mln ppl)
















*








*
4. Stadion Lecha Poznań (43k/up. to 50k) - Builded 2010- Location: POZNAŃ (metro 1,0 mln ppl)*


























*5. Stadion Plus Arena Gdańsk (42k) - Builded 2010- Location: GDAŃSK (metro 1,0 mln ppl)


























6. Stadion Miejski w Krakowie (33k) - Builded 2012- Location: KRAKÓW (metro 1,5 mln ppl)


























7. Stadion Miejski Legii Warszawa (30k) - Builded 2011- Location: WARSAW (metro 3,1 mln ppl)


























8. Stadion Arena Zabrze (30k) - U/C 2022/23- Location: ZABRZE (metro 3,5 mln ppl)


























9. Stadion Zawiszy Bydgoszcz (20k/ up to 40k) - Builded 2008/ U/C 2030- Location: BYDGOSZCZ (metro 0,8 mln ppl)


























10. Stadion Skry Warszawa (35k) - Builded 1953/ U/C 2030- Location: WARSZAWA (metro 3,1 mln ppl)*
Only vision


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

Poland is a fine candidate, but having hosted in 2012, it would be really unfair to pass on Turkey or Italy who are likely to bid and haven’t hosted a major tournament for 40 years at that point.


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## Light Tower (Nov 29, 2020)

Ramanaramana said:


> Poland is a fine candidate, but having hosted in 2012, it would be really unfair to pass on Turkey or Italy who are likely to bid and haven’t hosted a major tournament for 40 years at that point.


The did they already about 10 years ago with Ukraine.


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## Light Tower (Nov 29, 2020)

For the Euro 2032 bid: Italy, Russia and Turkey will bid. Russia will take part in the bid despite being suspended by UEFA and FIFA.


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## RMB2007 (Apr 1, 2007)

Straight forward is this. 2028 UK and Ireland. 2032 Italy. 2036 Turkey. 2040 Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Finland.


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

*Declarations of interest in hosting UEFA EURO 2028 and 2032 received from four potential bids*
A joint declaration of interest was submitted by the football associations of England, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland, Scotland and Wales for UEFA EURO 2028. Russia and Turkey declared their interest in hosting either the 2028 or 2032 edition of UEFA’s flagship national team competition, while Italy announced its intention to bid for UEFA EURO 2032. The appointment of host(s) of UEFA EURO 2028 and UEFA EURO 2032 will be made in September 2023.


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## Light Tower (Nov 29, 2020)

I had a while that Turkey is now the favorite to host in 2032 as recently Italy is having stadium problems in their bid.









UEFA News: Turkey Tipped as Favorite for Hosting EURO 2032


Turkey, surprisingly has been considered the favorite to be the host of EURO 2032, instead of the reigning Champions, Italy.




sportoport.com


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

one of main reasons for italy to bid was to update their stadium infrastructure, and while euro in turkey would certainly be great, it can never beat euro in italy

I would give turkey 2028 and italy 2032. noone needs another euro in the uk and bloody FA should figure out how to get the world cup, that‘s what everyone wants!!!


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## chibimatty (Oct 6, 2010)

These stadia look great, makes me wish Poland was a major rugby nation. I would love to see a Rugby World Cup at these grounds, would be a helluva good time in Poland. A shame actually, I remember the Poles being pretty good at the game back in the 90s



Roxven said:


> I present You *POLAND* candidacy for UEFA *EURO** 2032*.
> 
> View attachment 2898359
> 
> ...


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## Light Tower (Nov 29, 2020)

chibimatty said:


> These stadia look great, makes me wish Poland was a major rugby nation. I would love to see a Rugby World Cup at these grounds, would be a helluva good time in Poland. A shame actually, I remember the Poles being pretty good at the game back in the 90s


Poland is not in the running of the Euro 2032, however they are in the running to host UEFA Women's Euro 2025.


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## alex_4545 (11 mo ago)

I really think UEFA are going to throw Italy a bone here because without a major tournament, most of the stadiums won't be built/ refurbished. Especially in cities like Naples, Bari, Verona.

If Italy don't get this it will be humiliating IMO


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

*UEFA Euro 2032. Italy's FIGC President, Gravina: "I asked for government guarantees".*


> After 32 years from the "magic nights" (as the song of that edition read) of the 1990 FIFA World Cup, Italy dreams of hosting a great football event again. Italian press agency ANSA reports that Gabriele Gravina, President of the Italian National Football Federation, declared that he has sent an e-mail to the national government regarding the deadline, set for November 16, to present to UEFA the dossier that must contain the government guarantees. The goal is in fact to be the hosting country for the UEFA Euro 2032. "We need a commitment from the government - explained the number one of Italian football - without figures for the moment, with a declaration of public interest". *Gravina revealed during the press conference that the Italian bid for the European Championship will include a list of 8 cities, plus 2 in reserve. *"The commitment of local administrations will also be needed," Gravina said.


footballnews24.it / corrieredellosport.it / sportface.it


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

I think the cities and stadiums can be:

*Rome - Olympic Stadium (72,698)*
Completed

*Milan - New San Siro Stadium / Inter-Milan Stadium (60,000, but the capacity can increase in the final design)*
(funding: 100% private)
In September and October, we'll a two-month large public debate involving citizens, associations, professionals, and institutions. I am confident in the go-ahead to the project by year-end or early 2023. The city's administration now is open to demolishing the Municipality-owned Meazza and giving Inter and Milan the possibility to build their stadium on the public-owned site (but with a deal, the clubs will get 99-year surface rights). The project is being developed by the local office of Populous, they are confident too.

*Rome - New AS Roma Stadium (55,000 to 65,000, capacity is still a secret)*
(funding: 100% private)
The new club's owner is collaborating with the new city's administration. They have already found the area where to build it, a public-owned site: Pietralata. Preliminary things are ongoing. Recent rumors said AS Roma will launch an international design competition.

*Naples - San Paolo/Diego Armando Maradona Stadium *
The Municipality of Naples recently gave a mandate to a company of the Italian government to alienate the asset. We'll see if there are interested investors. This could result in demolition, replaced by something new, or a complete renovation (if only Napoli FC's owner -Mr. De Laurentiis- would invest).

*Bari - San Nicola*
The stadium is undergoing some renovation work, carried out by the Municipality of Bari, but I don't know how its future will be.
The city sadly shares the same problem as Naples: the same club's owner, Mr. De Laurentiis (Scrooge LOL).

*Florence - New Franchi Stadium* *(new capacity to be set to 42,000 according to recent news)*
(funding: 100% public via the Italian government).
The stadium is public-owned and was listed as 'national heritage'. The bureaucratic issue is ongoing, the city administration is awaiting the executive design to be submitted by the design team that won the international architecture contest. Time schedules are 'ok'. The Municipality of Florence repeatedly said the entire work will be completed by 2026.

*Turin - Juventus Stadium (41,507)*
Completed

*Genoa - Ferraris *
The mayor is open to having a new stadium. But we need to see what the two local clubs (Genoa and Sampdoria) intend to do.

*Bologna - New Dall'Ara Stadium* *(planned to have 30,000 seats when hosting international events)*
The bureaucratic issue is completed.
(funding: 40% public + 60% private)

*Cagliari - Cagliari Calcio Arena* *(planned to have 30,000 seats when hosting international events)*
The bureaucratic issue is completed. We already have interest from an Italian insurance group -Unipol- for the stadium's naming rights.
(funding: 49% public + 51% private)

*Palermo - Barbera*
The local football club was recently bought by the City Football Group (same owner as Manchester).
For sure, they will develop a project. The new elected major is available.

*Verona - Bentegodi *
New elected mayor recently said that Bentegodi should be renovated or rebuilt. We have to see what they will do, including the local football club.


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## Light Tower (Nov 29, 2020)

IThomas said:


> I think the cities and stadiums can be:
> 
> *Rome - Olympic Stadium (72,698)*
> Completed
> ...


I think this could be a problem for Italy if they are awarded the 2032 UEFA Euro.


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## Light Tower (Nov 29, 2020)

Here is the venue list for Turkey's UEFA Euro 2032 bid. Building two new venues in Ankara and İzmir should not be a problem if Turkey is awarded since Italy's bid would be risky. Turkey and Italy for Euro 2032 could be a rematch of the Euro 2016 bid. Turkey is likely to win over Italy.

It would have 10 cities:










*Istanbul - Atatürk Olympic Stadium (Capacity:76,092)*

This could be the venue for the final of the UEFA Euro 2032 if Turkey is awarded.










*Ankara - New Ankara Stadium (Capacity: 55,000)*

This could be used for the opening match and the third place match as well.










*Antalya - Antalya Stadium (Capacity: 32,537)*

This is a really nice venue, and it seems perfect to host matches.










*İzmir -** New İzmir Stadium (Capacity: 55,000)*

This could be a good venue, but will be built with a new venue by demolishing to current. That was the venue part of the Euro 2016 candidature.










*Bursa - Timsah Park (Capacity: 43,563)*

I think this venue has a unique shape, with the crocodile's moth for a good view of the city.










*Kocaeli - Kocaeli Stadium (Capacity: 34,712)*

This is gonna be one of the venues that was be used for the Euro 2024 bid.










*Eskişehir - Eskişehir Atatürk Stadium (Capacity: 34,930)*










*Konya - Konya Metropolitan Municipality Stadium (Capacity: 42,000)*

This could be the possible quarter-finals venue.










*Trabzon - Şenol Güneş Stadium (Capacity: 40,782)*

The venue was a amazing area close to the beach.

and finally, but not least:










*Gaziantep - Gaziantep Stadium (Capacity: 33,502)*

That could be a possible semi-final venue.

This seems like a nice venue list for the UEFA Euro 2028/2032 bid. I think Turkey has a best shot of host the UEFA Euro 2032 over Italy. If so, it would finally be their moment after multiple disappointing bids.


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

that bursaspor stadium is …. 🤪😁


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

Light Tower said:


> I think this could be a problem for Italy if they are awarded the 2032 UEFA Euro.


We realized renovations and new stadiums in view of FIFA World Cup 1990. So, it's not a problem, we can do better than that experience. I think that our offer for UEFA Euro 2032 would also be centered on the high-speed rail service to let fans/visitors move easily, fast from one city center to another. Anyway, most of the stadiums -with a series of services and served by local public transports- will be built anyway, just think about Rome, Milan, Bologna, Florence, Cagliari. As for the rest, there is still time till 2032. The National Football Federation, in collaboration with the Italian Institute for Sports Credit, the clubs, likely privates, and local administrations will find the right formulas for cases like Bari, Naples or Verona.


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

*Italy's Premier Giorgia Meloni picks Andrea Abodi as Sports Minister. *
The President of the Italian National Football Federation welcomes the news: "We aim for Euro 2032".










Andrea Abodi, former President of the Serie B League, was picked by Italian Premier Giorgia Meloni as Sports Minister. Meloni, who leads a conservative-nationalist government after winning September 25th general election, gave the news this afternoon, announcing her government team. The President of the Italian National Football Federation, Gabriele Gavrina, welcomed the appointment.



> "The appointment of Andrea Abodi, to whom I wish good work, is extraordinary news for Italian sport and for football in particular. He is a senior manager who knows how to combine vision and pragmatism, what it takes to support thousands of clubs, sportsmen that are in difficulty".





> "I thank President Meloni for giving dignity to our world with the indication of a real Ministry dedicated to Sports and for choosing a serious professional who knows the real problems that afflict Italian sport.* With Abodi, we shared ideas and projects, not least those we were putting into practice on the sports facilities, which represent the real great challenge to be won in order to relaunch the Italian system, also thanks to the assignment of the 2032 European Championship*".











Abodi Ministro dello Sport: è ufficiale. Gravina: "Puntiamo a Euro 2032"


Il presidente della Figc esulta per l'incarico affidato all'ex numero uno della Lega B: "Abbiamo condiviso idee e progetti, rilanceremo il sistema Italia"




www.tuttosport.com












Abodi nuovo ministro dello Sport. Gravina: "Grande notizia per il calcio"


Il presidente federale ha commentato con entusiasmo la scelta della Meloni: "La ringrazio per aver ridato dignità al nostro mondo. Saprà sostenere le migliaia di società sportive in difficoltà"




www.gazzetta.it






__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1583502898063110145


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

Ramanaramana said:


> The current requirements are three 50k (with one of those over 60k), three 40k, four 30k. So 10 total.
> 
> Doubt Rome or Turin get two venues.
> 
> ...


Verona and Lecce could be picked as "alternative" venues, in case something would happen.

The 10 candidate cities are: Rome, Milan, Naples, Turin, Palermo, Genoa, Florence, Bologna, Bari, Cagliari.


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## MikkelAndersen (Mar 26, 2014)

Even though Rome might only get one stadium for the tournament it would be a shame if Lazio don't build their own 50.000 seater stadium.


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

The Municipality of Rome is pushing S.S. Lazio to present a project. They want to understand if the club is really interested in the Flaminio -as previously said- or not. Or in the alternative, to present something else. Personally, I don't trust Lotito (S.S. Lazio president and owner) such as De Laurentiis (S.S. Napoli president and owner). Anyway, we'll see.


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## alex_4545 (11 mo ago)

IThomas said:


> The Municipality of Rome is pushing S.S. Lazio to present a project. They want to understand if the club is really interested in the Flaminio -as previously said- or not. Or in the alternative, to present something else. Personally, I don't trust Lotito (S.S. Lazio president and owner) such as De Laurentiis (S.S. Napoli president and owner). Anyway, we'll see.


The Flaminio is a no-brainer for Lazio. But if they're going to impose so many design constraints like they did in Florence, I can understand the hesitation


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

alex_4545 said:


> The Flaminio is a no-brainer for Lazio. But if they're going to impose so many design constraints like they did in Florence, I can understand the hesitation


Even in the case that S.S. Lazio refuses to take it, the Municipality of Rome could go forward with the B plan. The Municipality, however, had given to the Biancoazzurri a "preferential path". S.S. Lazio, on the other hand, could make other proposals in line with laws in vigor.

Anyway, cultural/architectural constraints are not given by politicians or local administrations, but by the Superintendence of Cultural Heritage, an independent body with architects, art historians, and related professionals who have the task to safeguard the nation's archaeological, historical-artistic, architectural heritage (plus landscape) by following a series of codes.


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## MikkelAndersen (Mar 26, 2014)

It's not Lazio headache that there is an old rundown stadium, Flamino, in the city. Build a new 50.000 seater.


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## eurocup2016 (Aug 30, 2015)

IThomas said:


> ITALIA 2032​
> These will likely be the venues of the Italian bid. Below, in brief, is the information I know so far.
> 
> *MILAN - "THE CATHEDRAL" / FC INTER MILAN-AC MILAN STADIUM (65,000-70,000)*
> ...


So stadiums that were suppose to get renovated might actually be demolished for new ones. I can't see that happening in Italy with the way things are going.


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## eurocup2016 (Aug 30, 2015)

mkoslo said:


> Is the Gewiss Arena and Dacia arena deemed too small for a EURO 2032 bid?


Unless they can be expanded then yes both are too small to host a major event like the Euro Cup


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

Bergamo would not be picked anyway. The simple fact is that it's in the same region as Milano. The Italian Football Federation wants to spread the event as much as possible. Sadly, UEFA has decided to do not to expand the championships to more national teams.


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

Gabriele Gravina, president of the Italian National Football Federation (FIGC), talked about Italy's candidacy for UEFA EURO 2032:


> "With Abodi (Italy's Sports Minister), I had an open and panoramic confrontation on Italian sport and with at the center a theme we particularly care about, which is the candidacy to host the 2032 European Championships. *In about ten days, we will be in Nyon for the presentation of the first part of our dossier*".











Euro 2032, Gravina: "Tra 10 giorni a Nyon per presentare la prima parte del dossier" - TUTTOmercatoWEB.com


(ANSA) - ROMA, 31 OTT - "Quello con Abodi andato in scena lunedì credo sia stato un confronto aperto e panoramico sullo sport italiano e con.




www.tuttomercatoweb.com


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

italy needs this euro badly, they have by far the worst stadium situation amongst all big league countries


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## alex_4545 (11 mo ago)

IThomas said:


> Bergamo would not be picked anyway. The simple fact is that it's in the same region as Milano. The Italian Football Federation wants to spread the event as much as possible. Sadly, UEFA has decided to do not to expand the championships to more national teams.


Yes it's a shame. Would have been nice to also have a host city in Veneto. A solution to the Bentegodi is needed. Also another location in the south


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## Florio (Oct 31, 2014)

Yea, maybe in Calabria. Who knows maybe there will be the possibility to build brand new stadiums in Reggio and in Verona. But i think it's fundamental for Italy to host these Euros.


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

alex_4545 said:


> Yes it's a shame. Would have been nice to also have a host city in Veneto. A solution to the Bentegodi is needed. Also another location in the south


Yes, Verona (Veneto, in the northeast) and Reggio Calabria (Calabria, in the south) could gain new stadiums if they would be included as "option/alternative" cities. I mean, for hosting an international event like this, other structures are needed in case something happens in the candidate venues. In both cities, local administrations are open to getting new facilities. I see a possible collaboration between privates and the Italian Institute for Sports Credit. Anyway, let's wait to know more.


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

*New AS Roma Stadium and renovated Flaminio for UEFA Euro 2032.*



> A brand new stadium, conceived by AS Roma, to accommodate 62,000 spectators and the renovation of the Flaminio Stadium, the stadium designed by Pier Luigi Nervi and home of the unforgettable Rome 1960 Summer Olympic Games. This could be the offer of Rome as one of the Italian bidding cities for the UEFA Euro 2032, according to Il Tempo newspaper. The perspective is suggested by Rome City Planning Councilor Maurizio Veloccia at the end of yesterday's meeting for the technical analysis of the feasibility plan of the Giallorossi stadium in Pietralata. AS Roma would have already given its 'ok' in considering its stadium as one of the venues for the European Championships.











Lo stadio Pietralata e il Flaminio per Euro 2032


Ieri in Campidoglio l’analisi tecnica del piano di fattibilità dell'impianto giallorosso




www.forzaroma.info





Regarding the Flaminio (which is publicly owned), the Municipality of Rome had given a "preferential" path to the other local football club SS Lazio. The city's administration wanted to understand if SS Lazio was really interested in taking the Flaminio and renovating it, making the stadium the new Biancocelesti home under a multi-decennial agreement between both parties.



> The pressing of the Municipality of Rome has paid off: SS Lazio President Lotito should present a preliminary project for Flaminio by the end of November. After the recent expressions of interest from the club and various inspections, everything seemed to have run aground once again. "We can wait until the end of the year at the latest, then at that point we will also explore other projects" said Alessandro Onorato, Sports Councillor for the City of Rome. The ultimatum gave the desired effects.











Lazio, a fine mese il progetto per il Flaminio: ecco il piano di Lotito


Il pressing del comune ha dato i suoi frutti: entro novembre Lotito presenterà un progetto per il Flaminio. L'obiettivo è quello di farlo diventare la nuova casa della Lazio. Dopo le




www.calciomercato.com


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

*Italy's bid for UEFA Euro 2032 gains the national government's support.*


> The Italian government's Sports Minister Andrea Abodi has signed a letter to UEFA supporting the country's bid to host the 2032 European Championship. *"Sustainable, long-term development of Italian sports venues represents one of the government's priorities" *Andrea Abodi, the minister and the former president of Serie B League, said in a statement released by the Italian soccer federation.* "Italy's candidacy for Euro 2032 represents a fundamental factor in accelerating that process". *Abodi's letter will be attached to a preliminary bid dossier due at UEFA next week, which is required to include a statement of support from the government. Final bid dossiers are due in March, with the host to be selected by UEFA in September 2023.


Comment of the President of the Italian National Football Federation, Gabriele Gravina:


> "This is great news for Italy. The organization of Euro 2032 represents a unique opportunity in terms of involvement and economic impact: it will also be an extraordinary accelerator for the renewal of high-level sports facilities. I thank Minister Abodi, with whom we collaborate with great satisfaction, and the entire government, which has confirmed this project is strategic for the development of the country".


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

From the Italian press:


> Italy, a renunciation behind the bid: 'Yes' to UEFA Euro 2032 after the 'No' to the FIFA World Cup shared with Egypt and Saudi Arabia.
> In a week, the Italian National Football Federation will certify the race to host the European Championships. A choice supported by UEFA, which will support Spain and Portugal's bid for the 2030 FIFA World Cup. Furthermore, the three-way organization with Cairo and Riyadh would also have entailed problems from the point of view of human rights.





> Why did Italy bet on the European Championships? The answer is obviously political. More than a year ago, FIFA had imagined a different plan. Working on nominations for the 2030 World Cup, Infantino envisioned a tournament split across three continents: Europe, Asia and Africa. The project provided the matches to be played in Italy, Saudi Arabia and Egypt. But the Italian National Football Federation preferred not to run for a three-way event. Among other things, with countries that represent serious problems: Egypt certainly could not be a partner after the Regeni case. And Saudi Arabia does not shine for humanitarian values and personal rights. In addition, UEFA had chosen to support the all-European candidacy of Spain and Portugal. A very welcome appointment to Ceferin, leader of European football. Italy has chosen UEFA. Crossing a sort of mutual promise: Rome supports Spain-Portugal and renounces an alternative candidacy to Madrid and Lisbon. And in exchange, it receives the support of UEFA for the race to Euro 2032. The only opponent: Erdogan's Turkey.


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## MikkelAndersen (Mar 26, 2014)

Why would Italy and Lazio plan to renovate Flaminio? They need a 45.000-50.000 seater capacity. If they can add another 20 seats on top of the first stand it might work out, but it should be so much easier to build a new stadium similar to Frankfurt.

Napoli also need a new 55.000 seater stadium.
An easier solution for them might be to lower the field 2-3 meters and add another 8-10 seats to the lower tier to get closer to the field. Then they end up having a 60.000 seater stadium - instead of 55.000 - but with a better view. But can they attract 50.000 for each game? Italy need more or less full stadiums.

Still the best solution would be:

Milan/Inter a new 65.000 seater
Roma a new 65.000 seater
Lazio a new 50.000 seater
Napoli a new 55.000 seater
Fiorentina a new 41.000 seater
Then the other cities should build between 30.000 and 40.000 seaters.
Juventus have a 41.507 seater.


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## eurocup2016 (Aug 30, 2015)

MikkelAndersen said:


> Why would Italy and Lazio plan to renovate Flaminio? They need a 45.000-50.000 seater capacity. If they can add another 20 seats on top of the first stand it might work out, but it should be so much easier to build a new stadium similar to Frankfurt.


The Flaminio site isn't even ideal for an MLS stadium let alone a top tier club like Lazio.


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## Florio (Oct 31, 2014)

alex_4545 said:


> Right but I ask what are the restrictions exactly? Can the structure be touched? Do you even know or are you guessing based on the situation in Florence? I would like the see what Lazio present. I have no doubts Italian bureaucrazy will slap red tape on any decent project.


Despite it all i have to say: neither Roma nor Lazio stadium would be used for the Euros. In Rome they will use the Olimpico. Like it or not.


alex_4545 said:


> I think the political situation with Turkiye is the only thing that gives the edge to Italy.


Bitter that i have to hope that Turkey remains that kind of state for Italy's fortune


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Florio said:


> Despite it all i have to say: neither Roma nor Lazio stadium would be used for the Euros. In Rome they will use the Olimpico. Like it or not.
> 
> Bitter that i have to hope that Turkey remains that kind of state for Italy's fortune


Nothing is perfect, so to some extent every decision is the lesser of two evils. lol.


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

Florio said:


> Despite it all i have to say: neither Roma nor Lazio stadium would be used for the Euros. In Rome they will use the Olimpico. Like it or not.
> 
> Bitter that i have to hope that Turkey remains that kind of state for Italy's fortune


I still think the way that England stepped aside for WC and Italy dropped their 2028 Euro bid means it’s all been decided behind closed doors anyway. I’m confident the FAs already know it’s going to Italy in 2032.


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## Light Tower (Nov 29, 2020)

Ramanaramana said:


> I still think the way that England stepped aside for WC and Italy dropped their 2028 Euro bid means it’s all been decided behind closed doors anyway. I’m confident the FAs already know it’s going to Italy in 2032.


I still think Turkey could get the UEFA Euro for 2032 since it might be a surprising host for the Euro of that year.


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## Florio (Oct 31, 2014)

Ramanaramana said:


> I still think the way that England stepped aside for WC and Italy dropped their 2028 Euro bid means it’s all been decided behind closed doors anyway. I’m confident the FAs already know it’s going to Italy in 2032.


I can see that. Don't know if it will be really like that but makes sense, it was really "prepared" like UEFA wants three straight euros in some typical football countries (four if you don't consider 2020 and put France 2016 in). Don't know but i can see a pattern. Or maybe i'm just convincing myself because i want this tournament in Italy so bad, but i'm sure that GB 2028 is already decided, and UEFA wanted that


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

Florio said:


> I can see that. Don't know if it will be really like that but makes sense, it was really "prepared" like UEFA wants three straight euros in some typical football countries (four if you don't consider 2020 and put France 2016 in). Don't know but i can see a pattern. Or maybe i'm just convincing myself because i want this tournament in Italy so bad, but i'm sure that GB 2028 is already decided, and UEFA wanted that


The fact Italy dropped interest in 2028 shortly after UK dropped out of 2030 says one of two things……

Either Italy was told UK will host in 2028 and they should focus on 2032…

Or they should drop any bid for 2028 as UK will get it, but that they’ll be preferred bidder for 2032.

The reason I lean on the latter is because of the timing of Italy stepping aside. It was just too neat how quickly the Spain/UK/Italy WC/Euros dominoes fell into place.

Italy could have easily put together a bid and gone to a vote, losing heavily to UK. But a losing bid for 2028 could have given them leverage for 2032 (Turkey is employing this strategy and they’ll eventually host a Euros because of it, even if it takes them 10 attempts), yet they’re not going to bother. That’s why I reckon they were told they’ll be preferred bidder for 2032.

Of the big 5 in Europe, four will have hosted a major tournament between 2016 and 2030. Italy haven’t hosted one since 1990. The stadium situation will look much better by end of 2030. It’s all aligning nicely.


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

Ramanaramana said:


> I still think the way that England stepped aside for WC and Italy dropped their 2028 Euro bid means it’s all been decided behind closed doors anyway. I’m confident the FAs already know it’s going to Italy in 2032.


that is highly likely


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## Florio (Oct 31, 2014)

Yes that's the point, i think that for UEFA it's great to have this showcase, France, Germany, British isles, Spain and Portugal (WC) and maybe Italy, the reason it seems realistic. Another point is the dossier, today Turkey have some very good stadiums already built and completed. Not every one of them is necessarily a beauty but they're already there and it means something. Italy needs to present a good dossier, and it wouldn't be bad to arrive in September with at least 3 or 4 stadiums in construction (Bologna, Cagliari, Florence and maybe Milan) as a signal of commitment. We'll see


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

*Gravina: "We will ask UEFA for political sensitivity"*












> "2032 is an important year for the world of football and for Italy. Italy and Turkey candidates for EURO 2032? *Today the challenge is between who will present its dossier with photos of stadiums that have already been built and who will have projects for new stadiums.* *We want to be credible with our bid, we don't want to sell dreams*". This was stated by the President of the Italian National Football Federation (FIGC), Gabriele Gravina, regarding the candidacy for the 2032 European Championships. "We have to be good at making it clear that the stadiums of 2032 don't exist yet, projecting ourselves into the future," said Gravina. "*We will ask UEFA for political sensitivity in understanding that Italy wants to grow and launch a new idea of European football. What we have to demonstrate as a country system is that we also believe in the hospitality industry, because football is not only business, but it also has a social, cultural and ethical-value dimension*".


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## Dmerdude (Jun 18, 2012)

www.sercan.de said:


> Honestly i don't believe that Türkiye will get the EURO 28 or 32.
> 
> First of all of course current political situation.
> At the first glance it looks like that we have good stadiums, but they aren't so big. They have to expand some of them. Especially the big white elephant Olimpiyat Stadi in Istanbul.
> ...


I don't understand why Turkey is in UEFA. Should be in the Asian league










Would make qualifying for World cup easier, since UEFA is a more competitive league with so many countries.

Discriminatory behaviour by UEFA in choosing host nations could be an impetus for change.


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## Leedsrule (Apr 6, 2010)

Dmerdude said:


> Would make qualifying for World cup easier, since UEFA is a more competitive league with so many countries.


Agree with this, but presumably the clubs would prefer to remain in the UEFA Champions League? 

Hope Turkey are given the rights to host Euro 28, the UK& Ireland bid is a mess. We all complain about athletics stadiums but playing football in a Gaelic stadium will be no better!


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

Dmerdude said:


> I don't understand why Turkey is in UEFA. Should be in the Asian league
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's much better for football development to be in Eurosphere than Asia, especially now with Nations League.

There's no benefit of going to Asia. You will only lower your footballing standards.


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## Florio (Oct 31, 2014)

Yea. Like Australia, Turkey chosen to be part of another confederation because was realistically too "big" for the other one. I can be wrong but i don't think that in Asia there are better nations than Turkey, about football i mean.
Today Fenerbahce, Besiktas, Galatasaray, Trabzonspor and Basaksehir play the Champions League and the other two cups, and i don't think that for them would be better the asian CL.


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

historically turkish football is closer to europe. the clubs or the national team's first matches have been vs european teams.


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## Are_137 (11 mo ago)

And about turkish teams travelling route is more efficient and make senses if they're away to cities in UK and ireland rather than goes to beijing, tokyo, jakarta, or even sydney....


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

noone is leaving uefa for afc, that would be a huge step down. uefa is where big money is


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## texan013 (May 26, 2020)

IThomas said:


> *Gravina: "We will ask UEFA for political sensitivity"*


But one would ask what have you done since your EURO 2016 bid? Turkey has built all of the stadiums in its 2016 bid file and taken concrete steps while Italy continues to talk about its plans and ideas which are still on paper and would cost billions in today's economy.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2016_bids



I also want to mention that Italy hosted the worst Eurovision in history since 1991 which was also hosted by Italy. I mean, the stage was broken and some participants had to change their choreography. This alone is a big scandal.

Turkey has general elections in May/June 2023 and in case of a political change in Turkey, I believe Italy has very little chance against the Turkish bid.


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

texan013 said:


> But one would ask what have you done since your EURO 2016 bid? Turkey has built all of the stadiums in its 2016 bid file and took concrete steps while Italy continues to talk about their plans and ideas which are still on paper and would cost billions in today's economy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The difference between now and then is that now something has moved from the clubs's ownership point of view and most of the projects of likely bidding stadiums are ongoing (see Milan, Bologna, Florence, Cagliari, Genoa... and recently also Rome), and publicly financed projects would be financed just if there is a major sports event like this.

And what the ESC has to do with UEFA Euro? Lol Also the broken stage and the choreography changes were fake news.


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## Dmerdude (Jun 18, 2012)

texan013 said:


> But one would ask what have you done since your EURO 2016 bid? Turkey has built all of the stadiums in its 2016 bid file and taken concrete steps while Italy continues to talk about its plans and ideas which are still on paper and would cost billions in today's economy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Poland has illegally invaded Iraq, but still hosted the UEFA cup in 2012, even though it hasn't paid reparations to Iraq. Same story for UK which I guess is bidding for 2028. I don't think political stuff is any excuse.


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## texan013 (May 26, 2020)

IThomas said:


> The difference between now and then is that now something has moved from the clubs's ownership point of view and most of the projects of likely bidding projects are ongoing (see Milan, Bologna, Florence, Cagliari, Genoa... and recently also Rome), and publicly financed projects would be financed just if there is a major sports event like this.
> 
> And what the ESC has to do with UEFA Euro? Lol Also the broken stage and the choreography changes were fake news.


The difference between now and then is that I still don't see any of those promises in the 2016 bid file have been realized by Italy and they continue to be a plan on paper even after almost 13 years. I think concrete steps are more valuable than these excuses. 

Also, I am a huge ESC fan and no, it was not fake news. The stage was supposed to move but it was broken and stayed stable. Rainbow of death: Broke down "kinetic sun" will remain on Eurovision stage "out of fairness" to all acts Eurovision 2022: The stage will not be used as it was intended to be - ESCplus


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

IThomas said:


> The difference between now and then is that now something has moved from the clubs's ownership point of view and most of the projects of likely bidding stadiums are ongoing (see Milan, Bologna, Florence, Cagliari, Genoa... and recently also Rome), and *publicly financed projects would be financed just if there is a major sports event like this.*
> 
> And what the ESC has to do with UEFA Euro? Lol Also the broken stage and the choreography changes were fake news.


That's the definition of "white elephant". It may not be what you wanted to say.


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## texan013 (May 26, 2020)

I believe "*publicly financed projects would be financed just if there is a major sports event like this."* is a very wrong statement. Sustainability should be the most important part of these bids otherwise these venues would rot like the venues of Athens 2004, Rio 2016, etc. Italy is a football country and if the stadiums are in this state then there is a problem.


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

pesto said:


> That's the definition of "white elephant". It may not be what you wanted to say.


I mean, stadiums where it is difficult to find financial funds at the moment, like the case of Bari.
In that case, the central government would intervene, but the stadium would still be used by the local teams (which clearly do not have the same financial power as major ones) and the rest of the city for other purposes (see music events).



texan013 said:


> The difference between now and then is that I still don't see any of those promises in the 2016 bid file have been realized by Italy and they continue to be a plan on paper even after almost 13 years. I think concrete steps are more valuable than these excuses.


It's important what the UEFA decides.

You should ask instead why Turkey continues to fail after having submitted multiple bids. Olympic games included.



texan013 said:


> Also, I am a huge ESC fan and no, it was not fake news. The stage was supposed to move but it was broken and stayed stable. Rainbow of death: Broke down "kinetic sun" will remain on Eurovision stage "out of fairness" to all acts Eurovision 2022: The stage will not be used as it was intended to be - ESCplus


This article refers to rehearsal days before the event took place.

During the three gala nights, the sun and the stage worked perfectly as they were designed.


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## texan013 (May 26, 2020)

IThomas said:


> It's important what the UEFA decides.
> 
> You should ask instead why Turkey continues to fail after having submitted multiple bids. Olympic games included.


Well, politics. In the 2016 candidacy, UEFA had a French president Platini and France won by 1 vote. Please read the Decision Controversy section of Euro 2016 bids. In 2020 we had stadiums and we were the only candidate but Mr. Platini (who was corrupt Blatter, Platini face 20-month susp. jail sentences ) all of a sudden decided to turn it into a weird event and this edition would be hosted all over Europe. 

I don't know why you are so defensive. I am just saying some facts. How is Turkey's number of bids related to this specific bid? Turkey has some of the best stadiums and better infrastructure in Europe. you will see the difference in case of a political change however with the new government of Italy I think Turkey and Italy are equal in this case as well.


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## Dmerdude (Jun 18, 2012)

texan013 said:


> Well, politics. In the 2016 candidacy, UEFA had a French president Platini and France won by 1 vote. Please read the Decision Controversy section of Euro 2016 bids. In 2020 we had stadiums and we were the only candidate but Mr. Platini (who was corrupt Blatter, Platini face 20-month susp. jail sentences ) all of a sudden decided to turn it into a weird event and this edition would be hosted all over Europe.
> 
> I don't know why you are so defensive. I am just saying some facts. How is Turkey's number of bids related to this specific bid? Turkey has some of the best stadiums and better infrastructure in Europe. you will see the difference in case of a political change however with the new government of Italy I think Turkey and Italy are equal in this case as well.


This does suggest UEFA is corrupt and discriminatory. Again, I don't understand why there is no discussion in Turkey about switching to Asian league. Then world cup participation every 4 years would be close to being guaranteed?


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

texan013 said:


> Well, politics. In the 2016 candidacy, UEFA had a French president Platini and France won by 1 vote. Please read the Decision Controversy section of Euro 2016 bids. In 2020 we had stadiums and we were the only candidate but Mr. Platini (who was corrupt Blatter, Platini face 20-month susp. jail sentences ) all of a sudden decided to turn it into a weird event and this edition would be hosted all over Europe.


I did not know this. Thank you.



texan013 said:


> I don't know why you are so defensive. I am just saying some facts. How is Turkey's number of bids related to this specific bid? Turkey has some of the best stadiums and better infrastructure in Europe.


I am not defensive. I am here to talk quietly.

About this bid, I was referring to the fact that the Turkish delegation should look at the past to "improve" this bid.
I mean, learn from "past mistakes" if there are any.



texan013 said:


> you will see the difference in case of a political change however with the new government of Italy I think Turkey and Italy are equal in this case as well.


What do you mean?


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## texan013 (May 26, 2020)

Dmerdude said:


> This does suggest UEFA is corrupt and discriminatory. Again, I don't understand why there is no discussion in Turkey about switching to Asian league. Then world cup participation every 4 years would be close to being guaranteed?


Well, I'd prefer to stay and fight rather than watching boring games. Europe is the land of football, not Cambodia or Laos. This is just weird that you want to switch to the Asian league just for the world cup qualification. Also, good luck with jetlag when there are games in Korea or Japan or China.


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## Dmerdude (Jun 18, 2012)

texan013 said:


> Well, I'd prefer to stay and fight rather than watching boring games. Europe is the land of football, not Cambodia or Laos. This is just weird that you want to switch to the Asian league just for the world cup qualification. Also, good luck with jetlag when there are games in Korea or Japan or China.


World cup looks more fun than UEFA competitions. For soccer clubs, the most important thing is the domestic league.


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## texan013 (May 26, 2020)

IThomas said:


> About this bid, I was referring to the fact that the Turkish delegation should look at the past to "improve" this bid.
> I mean, learn from your mistakes if there are any.


As I explained: from 2016 to 2024 bids there has always been an improvement. The stadiums were built, high speed trains started running, and the number of hotels increased but in 2016 and 2020 there was the Platini factor and in 2024 it was Germany. Germany is the safest and most stable country to host with great stadiums and infrastructure. Even I would vote for Germany. There was always an improvement in our bids, none of the 2 candidacies were the same.


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

Do you know what are the Turkish bidding cities for 2032?

Also, about high-speed rail, how is the situation now, and how it will be in 2032?

Thank you.


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## Florio (Oct 31, 2014)

texan013 said:


> Well, I'd prefer to stay and fight rather than watching boring games. Europe is the land of football, not Cambodia or Laos. This is just weird that you want to switch to the Asian league just for the world cup qualification. Also, good luck with jetlag when there are games in Korea or Japan or China.


Yea, and also Turkey is an "european" state, speaking of culture. It's not like Kazakhstan which is more asia than Europe (i don't speak about geography but culture). As you said no realistic reasons for Turkey to swith to AFC.


Dmerdude said:


> World cup looks more fun than UEFA competitions. For soccer clubs, the most important thing is the domestic league.


Well, yes and not. For a club who partecipate in a continental competition, (especially in South America and Europe), the international comps are at the same level.


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## texan013 (May 26, 2020)

IThomas said:


> Do you know what are the Turkish bidding cities for 2032?
> 
> Also, about high-speed rail, how is the situation now, and how it will be in 2032?
> 
> Thank you.












Unfortunately, my hometown (Izmir) on the Western coast is not included. Istanbul, Bursa, Izmit, Ankara, Eskisehir and Konya are connected by a high speed train and there are plans to connect Antalya and Gaziantep as well. (Trabzon is extremely mountainous). However, air and road transport is pretty developed. All of these cities have major airports except Bursa and Eskisehir. They have smaller airports.


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## Dmerdude (Jun 18, 2012)

Florio said:


> Yea, and also Turkey is an "european" state, speaking of culture. It's not like Kazakhstan which is more asia than Europe (i don't speak about geography but culture). As you said no realistic reasons for Turkey to swith to AFC.
> 
> Well, yes and not. For a club who partecipate in a continental competition, (especially in South America and Europe), the international comps are at the same level.


There are major cultural differences with many European countries though. I also wouldn't trust French officials, since a lot of them tend to be Islamophobic, and Turkey is a muslim-majority country. 

I also see that Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese are main languages of UEFA, but not Turkish, even though there are more Turkish speakers in EUFA region than speakers of those languages. And globally, there are more Turkish speakers than Italian speakers.

UEFA - Wikipedia


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## Florio (Oct 31, 2014)

Yes, but i'm not trying to create a debate, i was just clarifying that in the last centuries your history was our history, and even if today Turkey (rightly) looks at other parts of the world, i think that your place is with us.

I don't have any answer why UEFA site isn't accessible in turkish, in facts it's strange, but i don't love UEFA as i don't think any confederation looks at things that aren't their personal interests.

And all the other things, what can i say? I'm Italian, i'm not Islamophobic, not xenophobic, not homophobic, not whateveryouwantphobic. But obviously i can't speak for other people or country, but i despise every form of racism or religious hate, and i hate them when they happen in France, in Turkey or in Italy.


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## Dmerdude (Jun 18, 2012)

Florio said:


> Yes, but i'm not trying to create a debate, i was just clarifying that in the last centuries your history was our history, and even if today Turkey (rightly) looks at other parts of the world, i think that your place is with us.
> 
> I don't have any answer why UEFA site isn't accessible in turkish, in facts it's strange, but i don't love UEFA as i don't think any confederation looks at things that aren't their personal interests.
> 
> And all the other things, what can i say? I'm Italian, i'm not Islamophobic, not xenophobic, not homophobic, not whateveryouwantphobic. But obviously i can't speak for other people or country, but i despise every form of racism or religious hate, and i hate them when they happen in France, in Turkey or in Italy.


Chances are you are much younger than the UEFA decision making demographic. The previous UEFA president also seems racist. It's also funny he said these things out loud, even though he knew he was being recoded.

"There was controversy concerning the decision to give the Euro 2016 to France and not to Turkey. After the decision was announced, responding to the question "During Sepp Blatter's term, Euro 2008 was awarded to Switzerland, during your term Euro 2016 is awarded to France, is this the new trend?" Platini said "When there is a Turkish president, then you can host a major tournament".[28] "

""I'm happy because France has won, and I'm French — let's not forget it".[32] "

UEFA Euro 2016 bids - Wikipedia


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Dmerdude said:


> There are major cultural differences with many European countries though. *I also wouldn't trust French officials, since a lot of them tend to be Islamophobic*, and Turkey is a muslim-majority country.
> 
> I also see that Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese are main languages of UEFA, but not Turkish, even though there are more Turkish speakers in EUFA region than speakers of those languages. And globally, there are more Turkish speakers than Italian speakers.
> 
> UEFA - Wikipedia


The reference to France is political. If this is allowed one could talk about Turkey as an open society and its relations to its Muslim Arab neighbors. I hope this will be shut down now.


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## Dmerdude (Jun 18, 2012)

pesto said:


> The reference to France is political. If this is allowed one could talk about Turkey as an open society and its relations to its Muslim Arab neighbors. I hope this will be shut down now.


Well, UK is bidding for 2028, even though it illegally invaded Iraq, which caused close to ~1 million deaths. It didn't apologize or pay reparations to Iraq.


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## texan013 (May 26, 2020)

Dmerdude said:


> Well, UK is bidding for 2028, even though it illegally invaded Iraq, which caused close to ~1 million deaths. It didn't apologize or pay reparations to Iraq.


Whataboutism is never a good option to prove your point. I think you have an inferiority complex and that is because the government in Turkey wants you to feel this way. It is never us vs them. This only helps the government to consolidate its voters. Believe me, they don't hate you but they hate the politicians.


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## Dmerdude (Jun 18, 2012)

texan013 said:


> Whataboutism is never a good option to prove your point. I think you have an inferiority complex and that is because the government in Turkey wants you to feel this way. It is never us vs them. This only helps the government to consolidate its voters. Believe me, they don't hate you but they hate the politicians.


I highly doubt highlighting inconsistencies is "inferiority complex", maybe you should google it and learn what it actually is


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## Florio (Oct 31, 2014)

Dmerdude said:


> Chances are you are much younger than the UEFA decision making demographic. The previous UEFA president also seems racist. It's also funny he said these things out loud, even though he knew he was being recoded.
> 
> "There was controversy concerning the decision to give the Euro 2016 to France and not to Turkey. After the decision was announced, responding to the question "During Sepp Blatter's term, Euro 2008 was awarded to Switzerland, during your term Euro 2016 is awarded to France, is this the new trend?" Platini said "When there is a Turkish president, then you can host a major tournament".[28] "
> 
> ...


Yes, i am, i was born in '97, but i'm not unaware.And to me it's clear that Platini's crystal clear nationalism, political preferences and, yes, maybe racism, are realistic reasons for him to prefer France over every other country. I mean, he was the president from 2005 to 2015, and he assigned 2 Euros, one in France and one in all the continent. I can see a pattern where he wanted to favor France, and when France wasn't possible, he organised a tournament all around Europe, even in France. Platini is a horrible human being, i have no doubts, and most of his decisions were bad or result of corruption (i also remember how he and Macron "convinced" Mbappé to sign his new contract with PSG because of the amount of investments from Qatar to France). And for sure UEFA isn't a good organisation, but with maybe a bit of naivety i don't think there were anti-turkish decisions


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## eurocup2016 (Aug 30, 2015)

alex_4545 said:


> Right but I ask what are the restrictions exactly? Can the structure be touched? Do you even know or are you guessing based on the situation in Florence? I would like the see what Lazio present. I have no doubts Italian bureaucrazy will slap red tape on any decent project.


*Lots of constraints on the way*

The modernization of Stadio Flaminio will not be easy, as it is subject to regulations on the protection of landmarks. According to the decree from 2004, it is an object of significant importance to the cultural heritage and landscape. So it cannot be demolished so that it can be rebuilt from scratch.

Moreover, the heirs of the stadium's designers (the Nervi family) own the copyright to Flaminio, which only expires in 2049. *In practice, this prohibits any interference with the structure of the venue without their consent in the next 28 years*.

Another difficulty is the fact that the arena is located on the site of a former Etruscan necropolis, so earthworks will require consultations with archaeologists. Recently, AS Roma was considering Flaminio as a location for its new stadium, and 10 years ago, the Italian Rugby Federation had similar plans. Both were unsuccessful.









Rome: Lazio's new home at Stadio Flaminio?







stadiumdb.com





And I wasn't guessing based on the situation in Florence. Renovating an active stadium and reducing it's capacity by 5,000 seats and replacing them with executive suites is a lot easier to do than renovating an abandon stadium with limited space and increasing it's capacity to an extra 25,000 seats and executive suites. Italian bureaucracy will kibosh any plan the requires any type of demolition to the Flaminio's structure


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## alex_4545 (11 mo ago)

eurocup2016 said:


> *Lots of constraints on the way*
> 
> The modernization of Stadio Flaminio will not be easy, as it is subject to regulations on the protection of landmarks. According to the decree from 2004, it is an object of significant importance to the cultural heritage and landscape. So it cannot be demolished so that it can be rebuilt from scratch.
> 
> ...


The Nervi family should buy the stadium and organize matches on Sunday’s between themselves then.


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

eurocup2016 said:


> *Lots of constraints on the way*
> 
> The modernization of Stadio Flaminio will not be easy, as it is subject to regulations on the protection of landmarks. According to the decree from 2004, it is an object of significant importance to the cultural heritage and landscape. So it cannot be demolished so that it can be rebuilt from scratch.
> 
> ...





alex_4545 said:


> The Nervi family should buy the stadium and organize matches on Sunday’s between themselves then.


Legally, the Nervi family has no right to bind anything. The right expired in 1979. All the rest is just gossip.

Copyright law:

Article 20


> Regardless of the exclusive rights of economic use of the work, provided for in the provisions of the previous section, and even after the transfer of the rights themselves, the author retains the right to claim paternity of the work and to oppose any distortion, mutilation or other modification, and to any act to the detriment of the work itself, which may be detrimental to its honor or reputation. However, in architectural works the author cannot oppose the modifications that may become necessary during the construction. Likewise, he will not be able to oppose any other modifications that may be necessary to make to the work already completed. However, if the work is recognized by the competent state authority as having an important artistic character, the author will be responsible for studying and implementing such modifications.


Article 23


> After the author's death, the right provided for in art. 20 can be relied upon, without limit of time, by the spouse and children, and, in their absence, by the parents and other ascendants and direct descendants; missing ascendants and descendants, from brothers and sisters and their descendants. If public purposes require it, the action may also be exercised by the Minister of Cultural Heritage after consultation with the competent union association. It is clear that the art. 23 refers only to the "right to claim authorship of the work and to oppose any distortion, mutilation or other modification, and any detrimental act of the work itself, which may be prejudicial to its honor or reputation" and not to the pertinence of the architectural modifications which pertain to the author as such.


The Magistrature also agrees:


> That "copyright" of the Nervi family expired on January 9, 1979, with the death of the engineer Pier Luigi Nervi.


Then the article continues, reporting the citations of a verdict issued by the Court of Rome...








Stadio Flaminio, non esiste un diritto di veto dei Nervi: il vincolo è scaduto nel 1979


Pubblicato ieri alle 15




www.lalaziosiamonoi.it





If SS Lazio would decide to take the Flaminio, we'll proceed like in Florence (also in this case someone said that a total renovation was impossible). And the Superintendence of Cultural Heritage will collaborate with the club by giving some indications and bringing home a renovation and expansion project. Note: Florence's Artemio Franchi Stadium was also designed by Pier Luigi Nervi, opened in 1931.

Winning preliminary project by ARUP Italy, Mario Cucinella Architects, Cupelloni Architettura (winners of the design competition)





A similar work -a collaboration between the Superintendence of Cultural Heritage and Bologna Football Club- was recently done for the Renato Dall'Ara Stadium. Here's the video of the preliminary design. Renovation by architect Gino Zavanella (same designer of Turin's Juventus Stadium).






In this case, for example, there is a portico adjacent to the Dall'Ara: it is part of a group of porticoes that spread for 62km within the city limits of Bologna and have been recognized as a UNESCO World Heritage Site.








The Porticoes of Bologna


The serial property comprises twelve component parts consisting of ensembles of porticoes and their surrounding built areas, located within the Municipality of Bologna from the 12th century to the present. These ...




whc.unesco.org


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## eurocup2016 (Aug 30, 2015)

@IThomas So what you're saying is that should Lazio buy the Flaminio they can knock down the Flaminio and build their dream soccer venue with no restrictions to keep part of the existing structure up.


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

eurocup2016 said:


> @IThomas So what you're saying is that should Lazio buy the Flaminio they can knock down the Flaminio and build their dream soccer venue with no restrictions to keep part of the existing structure up.


I am saying that Nervi family has no voice. They would restrict everything and make impossible every design initiative because they want the structure to remain how it is (as they taught to do with Florence's Franchi Stadium). Instead, the Superintendence of Cultural Heritage (which is an independent body whose work is to protect and enhance buildings that have cultural-historical-artistic value) would give some indications on what and how to restore the original structure. Then it will be up to the designers selected by Lazio find the best overall design solution (or via a design competition, as in the case of Florence). Anyway, the final project (executive design) would be the result of a collaboration between Superintendence, football club, designers (and Municipality when it comes about the urban planning aspect). But in the end, the Flaminio could turn into something that can fit modern football standards like the cases of Bologna and Florence. Anyway, Lazio won't spend to buy the property, the existent stadium: it would be granted for free, passing from Municipality to club hands for 90 years. A bit similar to San Siro, where AC Milan and FC Inter Milan are doing everything to take a 280,000 sqm site, owned by the Municipality, to build there what they want, still respecting the laws in place. With the final green light, they will take it for free and for 99 years. All this is different than buying a large piece of land from a private. The same experience of Milan and Inter has already done by Juventus.


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## MikkelAndersen (Mar 26, 2014)

Italy should host the tournament. They are a great football nation and the clubs should build new stadiums like everywhere.
Milan/Inter 65.000
Roma 65.000
Napoli 55.000
Lazio 50.000
Fiorentina 41.000
The rest 30.000-40.000


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## mkoslo (Nov 18, 2021)

Agreed! I think a few smaller teams will renovate their stadiums as well, such as Monza, Spezia og Salernitana.


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## texan013 (May 26, 2020)

Then what is the point of submitting a bid dossier and going through this process? Let the last EURO champion host the whole organization. I think Austria and Switzerland did a great job in 2008 even though they are not football powerhouses. Obviously, the organizational ability is something else. Italy literally has been doing nothing since its EURO 2016 bid (its been like 13 years). It would be very unfair to favor plans over concrete, existing stadiums.


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## Florio (Oct 31, 2014)

Maybe yes, or maybe not. I don't think it will be unfair if Italy win, as i don't think it will be unfair if Turkey win. There are literally 0 difference about having all the stadiums ready or having just plans for UEFA. The only important thing is that when the tournament will be played, all the stadium have to be finished.


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## texan013 (May 26, 2020)

Florio said:


> Maybe yes, or maybe not. I don't think it will be unfair if Italy win, as i don't think it will be unfair if Turkey win. There are literally 0 difference about having all the stadiums ready or having just plans for UEFA. The only important thing is that when the tournament will be played, all the stadium have to be finished.


I disagree with this. By selecting plans you are giving a chance to realize those plans and there is always a possibility that Italy won't be able to realize most of those plans as it was discussed above in terms of intellectual property rights, ownership, financing, etc. Of course, existing stadiums should be favored because obviously, they are there 

The difference is that compared to EURO 2016 bids, Turkey has built all of those stadiums despite not being awarded as the host while Italy did not renovate (even a single one of them I believe) since 2010. https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFile...ediaReleases/01/48/83/27/1488327_DOWNLOAD.pdf

"*With respect to intellectual property matters, the Italian bid addresses most of UEFA’s concerns. Since current legislation in this field does not meet all UEFA requirements, the Italian federation has submitted a draft of law to UEFA. Considering the current gaps in the legislation, the enactment of support legislation would mitigate the risk of certain aspects of the event’s commercial programme to suffer from unfavourable legal conditions. However, with respect to illicit goods (counterfeiting and customs) and illicit match tickets, the current Italian system is efficient. There is also no legislation prohibiting advertising of any of the usual product categories commercialised by UEFA.*"

I mean, this was a concern 13 years ago and this explains why the stadiums could not be renovated for 13 years. Clearly, there was/is a problem.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Florio said:


> Maybe yes, or maybe not. I don't think it will be unfair if Italy win, as i don't think it will be unfair if Turkey win. *There are literally 0 difference about having all the stadiums ready or having just plans for UEFA. *The only important thing is that when the tournament will be played, all the stadium have to be finished.


Literally zero difference? If you had said "literally 100 percent difference" between things that exist and things that don't exist, I might have agreed. For instance things that exist have a color. Things that don't exist don't have a color. 

In any event, I worry a lot more about things that require lots of money, work, political will, popular support, etc., than things I and others can see and walk through today..


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

italy has the infrastructure, the main reason they are bidding is to bring their stadiums up to date, apart from usual country promotion etc.


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## Florio (Oct 31, 2014)

pesto said:


> Literally zero difference? If you had said "literally 100 percent difference" between things that exist and things that don't exist, I might have agreed. For instance things that exist have a color. Things that don't exist don't have a color.
> 
> In any event, I worry a lot more about things that require lots of money, work, political will, popular support, etc., than things I and others can see and walk through today..


In facts i spoke about the first match of the Euros, it's a problem of the nation to build all the stadiums, i don't think UEFA would gave the games if they have no reassurance that Italy could do it. In the other case the Euros will be played in Turkey. That's what i'm saying


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## Florio (Oct 31, 2014)

texan013 said:


> I disagree with this. By selecting plans you are giving a chance to realize those plans and there is always a possibility that Italy won't be able to realize most of those plans as it was discussed above in terms of intellectual property rights, ownership, financing, etc. Of course, existing stadiums should be favored because obviously, they are there
> 
> The difference is that compared to EURO 2016 bids, Turkey has built all of those stadiums despite not being awarded as the host while Italy did not renovate (even a single one of them I believe) since 2010. https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFile...ediaReleases/01/48/83/27/1488327_DOWNLOAD.pdf
> 
> ...


And i agree with you, we are a problematic country about buildings. We build too much and too bad for 40 years, and the solution to this was a gigantic bureaucracy, that in facts is killing a big part of the architectural investments.

But tbh i have to say that 2012/16 bids, even in Italy, were perceived as "bad" even here, and we are dealing with these problems. Not trying to say that we absolutely deserves these Euros, i think Turkey did a great work with their stadiums, while Italy, in September 2023 will realistically have 2 ready stadiums (Olimpico, Allianz Stadium) and 3/4 in construction (realistically Cagliari, Bologna and Florence, maybe even Milan) while 4/5 stadiums will only have a plan, so it's a problem.

I really don't know what to think about the selection, i have to be honest. As i said if Turkey will win it will be absolutely deserved, if not i will be the happiest person in the world because i don't see another realistic possibilities for Palermo (and also the whole country) to revamp their stadium(s).


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## PAO13 (Sep 23, 2009)

Florio said:


> Yea, and also Turkey is an "european" state, speaking of culture. It's not like Kazakhstan which is more asia than Europe (i don't speak about geography but culture). As you said no realistic reasons for Turkey to swith to AFC.
> 
> Well, yes and not. For a club who partecipate in a continental competition, (especially in South America and Europe), the international comps are at the same level.


How is Turkey more European than Kazakhstan?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

PAO13 said:


> How is Turkey more European than Kazakhstan?


Well, Turkey is part of NATO among many other things. 

Turkey borders Greece and Bulgaria. Kazakhstan borders China. Istanbul is 800 miles from Rome. It's 3200 miles from Almaty to Rome; It's like saying NY is on the Pacific Rim..

Turkey is much like a western economy (yes, mostly Muslim and poorer than Western Europe, but there has been an effort to develop a western economy since Ataturk). Kazakhstan wouldn't even be noticed in Europe if it weren't for oil.


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## Florio (Oct 31, 2014)

And even if we don't talk about political questions, Turkey history has very much to do with european one, they have a european culture, despite it's a (de facto) muslim country. Kazakhstan lies in central Asia and is a totally asian state. What's strange about this?


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

Think it shows how futile it is to group cultures by continent. Kazakhstan couldn’t be more culturally different from India, Japan or China. It’s as home in Europe as it is in Asia. 

Could go a step further and ask what exactly European culture is. Or what’s an Asian country apart from geographic boundaries? 

Europe is wildly diverse culturally. Germany and France are culturally very different, to say nothing of Turkey or Kazakhstan.


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## Florio (Oct 31, 2014)

But it isn't just a geographical question, that's not my point, it's about history, turkey is well present in the last 800 years of european history, and have left his signs in Greece, Albania, Romania and in a certain point was the neighbor of Austria. I don't think that i disrespect Kazakhstan if i say that i feel Turkey has more to do with our history. And not about continental questions, because in this case (apart for Istanbul) even Turkey is in Asia.

Yes, the second point is really interesting. I think that is possible to separate some asian cultures, like the far eastern like Japan, Korea(s), China, or the southeasterns, the "indian" part, the arab ones... and they all have their different cultures. See how different Iran is from the arabian peninsula's states. That's a really good point. In this case the concept of continent is just cultural, and Asia stops to exist. In facts even Europe is just a part of Asia if you look at it from this perspective


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## Dmerdude (Jun 18, 2012)

I actually think Turkey has more common with countries like South Korea than countries like Norway in certain cultural things (like multi-generational family homes with parents, kids and grandparents). Of course, Azerbaijan is the most culturally similar, which is also in West Asia like Turkey, but also in UEFA.


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

Florio said:


> But it isn't just a geographical question, that's not my point, it's about history, turkey is well present in the last 800 years of european history, and have left his signs in Greece, Albania, Romania and in a certain point was the neighbor of Austria. I don't think that i disrespect Kazakhstan if i say that i feel Turkey has more to do with our history. And not about continental questions, because in this case (apart for Istanbul) even Turkey is in Asia.
> 
> Yes, the second point is really interesting. I think that is possible to separate some asian cultures, like the far eastern like Japan, Korea(s), China, or the southeasterns, the "indian" part, the arab ones... and they all have their different cultures. See how different Iran is from the arabian peninsula's states. That's a really good point. In this case the concept of continent is just cultural, and Asia stops to exist. In facts even Europe is just a part of Asia if you look at it from this perspective


Agree yeah it's that age-old question of why can't Europe unite...... because they all speak different languages, look different, eat different foods, watch different TV shows, listen to different music, worship different gods, have totally different customs, etc....... the only reason Europe as an idea exists is because the colonisers all came from there, and designated their lands as the centre of the world, instead of what it really is.....a western appendage of Eurasia whose cultural differences are stark.

This topic is one of the reasons why I think football needs to be reconfigured at confederation level. I find it silly that North Africans play against sub-Saharan Africans just because of geography and how it's defined. Sub-Saharan Africa should be its own confederation, and the North Africans should be part of a largely Arabic confederation along with most of the Middle East. Even on the basis of geography, it makes much more sense for North Africans to be playing against Middle Eastern nations, which are a short journey, than the rest of sub-Saharan Africa where distances are vast.

The Union of Arab Football Associations already exists. It has 22 members. It would be better from qualifying for World Cups as it would ensure consistent Arabic representation, as well as an Arabic Championships would be so much more interesting than Egypt vs Senegal or Saudi Arabia vs Japan. Same for clubs. Al Ahly vs Al Hilal is vastly more interesting for fans of those clubs than what they have to put up with now. I genuinely think Arab football would be far more prominent if they were united.


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## PAO13 (Sep 23, 2009)

pesto said:


> Well, Turkey is part of NATO among many other things.
> 
> Turkey borders Greece and Bulgaria. Kazakhstan borders China. Istanbul is 800 miles from Rome. It's 3200 miles from Almaty to Rome; It's like saying NY is on the Pacific Rim..
> 
> Turkey is much like a western economy (yes, mostly Muslim and poorer than Western Europe, but there has been an effort to develop a western economy since Ataturk). Kazakhstan wouldn't even be noticed in Europe if it weren't for oil.


Turkish culture has nothing to do with European culture, both Kazakh and Turkish culture belong to the central Asian culture. I'm fact Turks has throughout history always fought against European culture and values. 

On the contrary Kazakhstan was a part of Europe through Soviet. And Tunis is three times closer to Rome than Ankara is, but that doesn't make Tunisia European.


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## Florio (Oct 31, 2014)

Ramanaramana said:


> Agree yeah it's that age-old question of why can't Europe unite...... because they all speak different languages, look different, eat different foods, watch different TV shows, listen to different music, worship different gods, have totally different customs, etc....... the only reason Europe as an idea exists is because the colonisers all came from there, and designated their lands as the centre of the world, instead of what it really is.....a western appendage of Eurasia whose cultural differences are stark.
> 
> This topic is one of the reasons why I think football needs to be reconfigured at confederation level. I find it silly that North Africans play against sub-Saharan Africans just because of geography and how it's defined. Sub-Saharan Africa should be its own confederation, and the North Africans should be part of a largely Arabic confederation along with most of the Middle East. Even on the basis of geography, it makes much more sense for North Africans to be playing against Middle Eastern nations, which are a short journey, than the rest of sub-Saharan Africa where distances are vast.
> 
> The Union of Arab Football Associations already exists. It has 22 members. It would be better from qualifying for World Cups as it would ensure consistent Arabic representation, as well as an Arabic Championships would be so much more interesting than Egypt vs Senegal or Saudi Arabia vs Japan. Same for clubs. Al Ahly vs Al Hilal is vastly more interesting for fans of those clubs than what they have to put up with now. I genuinely think Arab football would be far more prominent if they were united.


I agree with the most, the only situation in which i would prefer an union is the America. In my opinion it wouldn't be bad to see a panamerican confederation, for many reasons. But that's an OT.

Regarding your post, i agree with you hypothetical division of football confederations, but my question is: would it make sense? I mean, probably you should just divide following some patterns, like 
Africa:
- Maghreb
- Western, central and eastern Africa
- Southern Africa
Asia:
- Arab Asia (Arabic Peninsula, Middle East)
- Central Asia (-stans and Indian subcontinent)
- Eastern Asia, maybe with the southern and insular Asia, and why not the whole Oceania

IMO Europe well works as it is, the structure is fine. In America the truth is that USA, Canada and Mexico and maybe Costa Rica are too big for their confederation, and it would make sense to join the Conmebol (don't forget that in 2024 the big three will be in the Copa America). An enlarged Copa America would be very similar to the Euros, like the Copa Libertadores.

All this to say that, yes, to me Turkey is Europe and it's okay to have them in european football.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

This is called "political culture" analysis and has been around for some time. Some have gotten silly and tried to build "fixes" for socialist and the 3rd world countries, but the basic ideas are useful in thinking about what happens in societies.

In brief, Europeans are basically the same people. The way they think is rooted in Greek rationalism, Roman public responsibility (military and public involvement, roads and public places, etc.) and Judaic monotheism. Europeans have the same general attitude toward family relations, rich vs. poor, work vs. leisure, sexual stereotypes, human rights, limits of government, cultural tastes, etc. These have passed on to their colonies.in the Americas and around the world.

Asia and Africa are very, very different. Briefly, Turkey straddles the Asian/European types, partly due to their long interaction with Greece, Italy and Europe; and by Ataturk's efforts to modernize Turkey in the face of European wealth and technical superiority.

Kazakhstan has nothing to do with Europe except for having oil and gas. .


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Florio said:


> I agree with the most, the only situation in which i would prefer an union is the America. In my opinion it wouldn't be bad to see a panamerican confederation, for many reasons. But that's an OT.
> 
> Regarding your post, i agree with you hypothetical division of football confederations, but my question is: would it make sense? I mean, probably you should just divide following some patterns, like
> Africa:
> ...


No union in Latin America because distances are already very large and the population is coastal. The US is a miracle since it started small and grew by expanding slowly across thinly populated areas, with a single European culture effectively absorbing the local population (my Oklahoma and Kansas family has some mixtures).


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## texan013 (May 26, 2020)

Dmerdude said:


> I actually think Turkey has more common with countries like South Korea than countries like Norway in certain cultural things (like multi-generational family homes with parents, kids and grandparents). Of course, Azerbaijan is the most culturally similar, which is also in West Asia like Turkey, but also in UEFA.


Uhm, there is something called the Mediterranean. Believe me, Spanish and Greek fellas have multi generational homes with parents as well. And YESSS!! They are European. Shocking, huh?

I really find it funny that you perceive the European culture as drinking wine while listening to Vivaldi in a marble house where you live alone while taking a bite from your smelly cheese. Also, I mean the Balkans!! They are much more similar to Turkey in many areas than our closest relative Azerbaijan. I don't get your point of disproving Turkey's part in Europe. Like it or not, historically, economically, politically and yes geographically Turkey is Europe and discussing this in 2022 is just useless. I really hope you don't believe that a Spanish and a Swedish or a Finnish and an Austrian or a British and a Romanian, etc have the same culture. The motto is called "United in diversity". Turkey being a member of the Council of Europe and being accepted as a candidate for EU answers Turkey's Europeanness I think.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

texan013 said:


> Uhm, there is something called the Mediterranean. Believe me, Spanish and Greek fellas have multi generational homes with parents as well. And YESSS!! They are European. Shocking, huh?
> 
> I really find it funny that you perceive the European culture as drinking wine while listening to Vivaldi in a marble house where you live alone while taking a bite from your smelly cheese. Also, I mean the Balkans!! They are much more similar to Turkey in many areas than our closest relative Azerbaijan. I don't get your point of disproving Turkey's part in Europe. Like it or not, historically, economically, politically and yes geographically Turkey is Europe and discussing this in 2022 is just useless. I really hope you don't believe that a Spanish and a Swedish or a Finnish and an Austrian or a British and a Romanian, etc have the same culture. The motto is called "United in diversity". Turkey being a member of the Council of Europe and being accepted as a candidate for EU answers Turkey's Europeanness I think.


Agree with what you say, but those are details. Fundamentally, Europeans think the same and there is massive research supporting this starting about 60 years ago. Of course, things are always changing as well, so nothing is fixed in stone.. 

One favorite example: Europeans and Americans say that when entering an elevator, deference is given to women, children and the elderly. Once it becomes crowded, people wait for the next car.

In certain other regions, males with wealth push in first supported by the males of their group who will use violence to remove any who try to go ahead; next is people of lower status and then unaccompanied women. 

In summary, the studies show that European/Americans think alike on government, rights, social behavior, technology, business practices, duties to others, role of religion, etc. Some other parts of the world are very different.


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## Dmerdude (Jun 18, 2012)

texan013 said:


> Uhm, there is something called the Mediterranean. Believe me, Spanish and Greek fellas have multi generational homes with parents as well. And YESSS!! They are European. Shocking, huh?


No shit Sherlock. I didn't say South Korea was culturally closer than all European countries, that seems to be a weird assumption on your part. I was just comparing 2 countries on edges of Europe and Asia.

I'd agree there are a lot of similarities with Mediterranean countries, but that also includes non European ones such as Lebanon. But again, the most similar country is Azerbaijan by far.



texan013 said:


> I really find it funny that you perceive the European culture as drinking wine while listening to Vivaldi in a marble house where you live alone while taking a bite from your smelly cheese.


What? Again, a weird assumption on your part. 

Is that what you understood from my posts or did you see that in a dream?



texan013 said:


> Also, I mean the Balkans!! They are much more similar to Turkey in many areas than our closest relative Azerbaijan. I don't get your point of disproving Turkey's part in Europe. Like it or not, historically, economically, politically and yes geographically Turkey is Europe and discussing this in 2022 is just useless. I really hope you don't believe that a Spanish and a Swedish or a Finnish and an Austrian or a British and a Romanian, etc have the same culture. The motto is called "United in diversity". Turkey being a member of the Council of Europe and being accepted as a candidate for EU answers Turkey's Europeanness I think.


Most Turks do not identify with Europe (at least when asked as a single choice)



https://www.khas.edu.tr/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/TDP_2022_ENG_FINAL_07.09.22.pdf



Going back to the topic, I would have much preferred Turkey to bid for the World Cup, rather than the Eurocup. World Cup looks much more fun.


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## Ramanaramana (Mar 24, 2021)

The general idea is that Turkey can belong anywhere because there is no European or Asian culture. They are as European as anyone. But their culture is distinct, not comparable to any single European state, so it’s pointless trying to group them into anything.

On the point of the Balkans being similar to Turkey as somehow suggesting that makes them more European is a strange one. The Ottomans ruled the Balkans for centuries. Of course their influence will be left behind. I know for a fact that Turkish vocabulary is prevalent in the region. A quick Google search suggest 7,000 Turkish words in the Serbian language. And I know Turkish TV shows are popular in the region too.

Due to its size and history Turkey exports culture.


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## Colm Flynn (Mar 8, 2012)

pesto said:


> This is called "political culture" analysis and has been around for some time. Some have gotten silly and tried to build "fixes" for socialist and the 3rd world countries, but the basic ideas are useful in thinking about what happens in societies.
> 
> In brief, Europeans are basically the same people. The way they think is rooted in Greek rationalism, Roman public responsibility (military and public involvement, roads and public places, etc.) and Judaic monotheism. Europeans have the same general attitude toward family relations, rich vs. poor, work vs. leisure, sexual stereotypes, human rights, limits of government, cultural tastes, etc. These have passed on to their colonies.in the Americas and around the world.
> 
> ...


Kazakhstan is a trans continental country that is both in Europe and Asia.


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## Florio (Oct 31, 2014)

Yea, the fact is that even Europe hasn't defined boundaries, it isn't a good idea to try to define what isn't european.

But as Turkey has ever been part of european football institution, it's right to see them as european. It's crystal clear in my mind. I cannot imagine a Champions/Europa League without Galatasaray or Fenerbache


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## texan013 (May 26, 2020)

Ramanaramana said:


> On the point of the Balkans being similar to Turkey as somehow suggesting that makes them more European is a strange one. The Ottomans ruled the Balkans for centuries. Of course their influence will be left behind. I know for a fact that Turkish vocabulary is prevalent in the region. A quick Google search suggest 7,000 Turkish words in the Serbian language. And I know Turkish TV shows are popular in the region too.
> 
> Due to its size and history Turkey exports culture.


This was the whole point. Turkey has been a part of European history for centuries. "Balkan" is a Turkish word meaning mountainous forest area. 

I don't know how we ended up comparing Turkey and Kazkahstan or Turkey's Europeanness (I believe, considering Turkey is one of the first members of the Council of Europe in 1949 and accepted as a candidate country for EU accession are enough to stop this topic)


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Colm Flynn said:


> Kazakhstan is a trans continental country that is both in Europe and Asia.


No. You can draw a border wherever you want (in the middle of a bridge in Istanbul you pass into Asia). But culturally Kazakhstan is not European either geographically or culturally.

Turkey is certainly a mixture of European and Asian influences, but much more European than Kazakhstan. There are districts and small towns where westerners must be non-confrontational and women must not show any skin, but this is not true for most of Istanbul and its suburbs or most of the Aegean coast..


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## Florio (Oct 31, 2014)

And don't forget that despite some sad political and social events there was a great influence of greeks and other people in the turkish cities. I don't think that it's even a debate.


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## Dmerdude (Jun 18, 2012)

pesto said:


> No. You can draw a border wherever you want (in the middle of a bridge in Istanbul you pass into Asia). But culturally Kazakhstan is not European either geographically or culturally.
> 
> Turkey is certainly a mixture of European and Asian influences, but much more European than Kazakhstan. There are districts and small towns where westerners must be non-confrontational and women must not show any skin, but this is not true for most of Istanbul and its suburbs or most of the Aegean coast..


You really think there are districts in Turkey where women must not show any skin? Lol. 

How old are you?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Dmerdude said:


> You really think there are districts in Turkey where women must not show any skin? Lol.
> 
> How old are you?


In Istanbul, there are areas in Fenner and adjacent where an imam with a baton hits women who try to enter streets if they are not 100 percent covered. 

Even as a man I was warned away from entering and followed until I got to the tram stop.


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## Dmerdude (Jun 18, 2012)

pesto said:


> In Istanbul, there are areas in Fenner and adjacent where an imam with a baton hits women who try to enter streets if they are not 100 percent covered.
> 
> Even as a man I was warned away from entering and followed until I got to the tram stop.


Lol did you see that in a dream? Or did that happen 70 years ago?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Dmerdude said:


> Lol did you see that in a dream? Or did that happen 70 years ago?


About 5 years ago. I just missed the bus but fortunately a ferry was coming so I got inside the ticketing area and got on-board.


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## Dmerdude (Jun 18, 2012)

pesto said:


> About 5 years ago. I just missed the bus but fortunately a ferry was coming so I got inside the ticketing area and got on-board.


Lol that sounds like fake information, especially given your post history in this thread.

It is indeed a working class neighbourhood but this is what Fener looks like:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Dmerdude said:


> Lol that sounds like fake information, especially given your post history in this thread.
> 
> It is indeed a working class neighbourhood but this is what Fener looks like:


How silly. That's a posed ad with a specific route planned and cleared out ahead of time. Of course, they are going to avoid the religiously conservative areas (and real slums, etc.). I could do the same in LA in areas where it's fine in the day and nothing but drugs and gangs at night.

More seriously, I love Istanbul but you could be complicit in getting people injured or killed by giving a signal that there are no areas that are culturally very conservative. No woman should walk around without a scarf or jacket to cover up if she feels people staring at her.


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## Dmerdude (Jun 18, 2012)

pesto said:


> How silly. That's a posed ad with a specific route planned and cleared out ahead of time. Of course, they are going to avoid the religiously conservative areas (and real slums, etc.). I could do the same in LA in areas where it's fine in the day and nothing but drugs and gangs at night.


That's Fener, and it's a small neighbourhood. And it clearly shows derelict buildings so it's not "curated"



pesto said:


> More seriously, I love Istanbul but you could be complicit in getting people injured or killed by giving a signal that there are no areas that are culturally very conservative. No woman should walk around without a scarf or jacket to cover up if she feels people staring at her.


Well, you just seem to be wanting to spread fake information. But I'd also encourage people to do their own research, and follow their instincts and trust their gut. I don't intend to mislead people.

Also since you seem to be coming from US, you should keep in mind that Turkey is a safer country than US in general.





















https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_intentional_homicide_rate



Istanbul's homicide rate seems to be less than 0.5 per 100,000 people. Even Maine and New Hampshire, lowest homicide rate areas in US, are higher than that.


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## Dmerdude (Jun 18, 2012)

...


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Dmerdude said:


> That's Fener, and it's a small neighbourhood. And it clearly shows derelict buildings so it's not "curated"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What does the US crime rate have to do with religious and gender rights in the selection process for a European sports tournament? Compare Turkey to other European candidates. 

In any event, FIFA already acknowledged US suitability in their review of the United Bid for 2026.


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## Dmerdude (Jun 18, 2012)

pesto said:


> What does the US crime rate have to do with religious and gender rights in the selection process for a European sports tournament? Compare Turkey to other European candidates.
> 
> In any event, FIFA already acknowledged US suitability in their review of the United Bid for 2026.


The map I posted already compares homicide rate in Turkey to European countries, and Istanbul seems lower than cities like London.

This is the robbery rate situation











__
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/q7wees


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