# Why soo wrong idea about Paris ?



## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

Dead in construction and nobody (exept rich yuppies) live here. This is only a small part of *Inner* Paris.
Also Tourists visit a small part of *Inner* Paris


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## Good (Jun 20, 2006)

Yes but by repeating over and over that the center of Paris is "dead", people imagine a ghost downtown with nobody in the streets, no shops and no bars. When you stroll around the Marais, les Halles, Rivoli, Saint-Michel or Saint-Germain (all in the very center of the city), you actually get the opposite feeling, that the center is overcrowded.


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

Yes, it is a bit exaggerated.


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

EDIT
See the 56th post


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

LOL, my city is a white island in a deep blue sea


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

minato ku said:


> For me the dead center it is only a small part of inner Paris, (tourist visit a small part of inner Paris)
> District like Chatelet, Republique, Belleville, Choisy, Alesia, Montparnasse, Gare du Nord, Bercy... are very lively.
> 
> And the inner suburbs of Paris are not real suburbs, just oulter districts of the city.
> ...


Fine, but you have to remember, you are not the average tourist to Paris. When people visit a city, they usually stick to the central area. That is where the main cluster of tourist attractions and note worthy sites are located. Unless they are spending a week or more in the city, there is very little time to explore the neighbourhoods.

Now, you maybe a "real" traveller and when visiting other parts of the world, like to explore the full city including suburbs. If you are like this, then I fully understand as I also like to do this.

But most tourists are pretty narrow minded whichever city they visit. Or those that are broader minded, time maybe an issue. This is not limited to Paris, but evident in every city in the world unless the suburbs offer some sort of non urban attraction like a beach or ski sloped, or an internationally known park like Disneyland.

Sad, but a fact.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

edubejar said:


> Very well said. Minatu Ku, sorry to have to say this but people travel miles to see Paris and what makes Paris uniquely Paris. Most people will not care to see some neighborhoods that isn't listed on travel guide (except a few of us). Also, as for the suburbs, most travel guides and maps of Paris stop shortly after the Paris ring road, including those you buy in Paris. Look, the same happens in NYC. Very few tourists leave Manhattan and hardly visit all of Manhattan. It also has to do with such cities having so much in the center that there is hardly time to think about the rest, especially on a first visit of 3 to 5 days. I'm sure that those considering living in Paris for a year or so consider other parts of Greater Paris, especially if they are hunting for a cheaper apartment.
> 
> It's OK.


Quite right, and a great city like Paris makes it even harder. Some cities you can tire of downtown after the first day, but central Paris is so huge and full of so many facinating sights that a month can go by and not all of it is seen. There is simply only so much time a tourist can spend in a city, and when they hit Paris it's central area is like hitting a gold mine.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

minato ku said:


> That's pretty extrem, but everyone see London (per exemple) as a modern, dynamic and multicultural city. It is the truth
> 
> For Paris it is the oposite, traditional, old, french are all white and drinking at traditional cafe. (Even if France have the highest non white population in Europe).
> 
> ...


I think I get your point here, and it is true to an extent. But this is also down to how a city portrays itself onto the world stage. One difference between Paris and London is the language. London, speaking English, broadcasts itself globally around the world much more than Paris does. People listen to the music and watch the films on an international stage probably more than they would for Paris. 

That said, what modern films we do see of Paris does often show the ethnic side of the city (Angle-A is a good example) maybe the city just needs more exposure.

On an international level, Paris does seem rather quiet these days. Living in Germany I hear music or see films from London far more than anything from Paris. I am not saying that Paris isn't producing great cultural material, but it does seem to not be reaching out to the world as much anymore (except of cause in the fashion scene). When I read the German papers, if they mention globally famous chefs outside of Germany, they are usually from London (Gordon Ramsey, Jamie Oliver, Marco Pierre White etc), when I listen to music on German radio, I am more likely to hear London based bands than Paris or when I watch films, I can't remember the last French block buster on a mainstream cinema.

Of cause, this is all mass marketed culture, and I know from keeping an eye on the arthouse and indie scenes that the French have still not lost their amazing cutting edge, but to get international appeal, one still needs to hold a grasp of the full market even if it lacks quality as well as the niche markets. A city that does well in both is truly successful.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

Johnny Drama said:


> Justme, I try my hardest to drink good stuff. I just turned 21 this summer and been trying to locate some good shit. Amstel wasnt all that and I cant imagine it being that much of an improvement out of some European tap.
> 
> And that 3.5% isnt a standard is it?
> 
> By the way, recommend me some good German beers. My favorite beers so far have been the Hofbräuhaus and Hacker-Pschorr Weiss beers.


I don't drink Amstel, but all I can say is that if a beer is watered down, don't drink it, and certainly don't drink it and judge it. From my understanding Amstel is watered down when imported to the US. You certainly can't judge that.

Check to make sure it is an original import, European beers rarely have alcohol contents below 4.5%, most of Germany's are above 5% and avoid the really strong beers such as tenants super with 9%.

There are so many great European beers from many of the country's here, I have no idea where to start. Just come over and enjoy, and trust me, there are very few American's that I have met or heard that prefer American beer over what they have here.

From Germany, which is a country that makes many fine beers, even the mass produced Becks is nice. But a good start would be Crikak, Licher and nearly any dark Weizen Beer. But if you do drink a Weizen Beer, make sure you never drink from the bottle and always poor it into a proper shaped glass - Very important.

Anyway, we shouldn't talk about German beers on this thread ;O)


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## Johnny Drama (Jul 24, 2007)

Justme said:


> I don't drink Amstel, but all I can say is that if a beer is watered down, don't drink it, and certainly don't drink it and judge it. From my understanding Amstel is watered down when imported to the US. You certainly can't judge that.
> 
> Check to make sure it is an original import, European beers rarely have alcohol contents below 4.5%, most of Germany's are above 5% and avoid the really strong beers such as tenants super with 9%.
> 
> ...


I dont think you will find too many people that would prefer the American beer over the German beer. Price though might change people's minds into buying a 24 pack of Bud. I would of course stay away from the major American domestics (aside from High Life). That doesnt mean there are some great microbreweries and lesser known beers being produced in the U.S. Many people judge the American beers on Coors Lite unfortunaely and dont check out the local beers. 

Thanks for the tips though on the German beers. Ill have to check some of that out. Got to get educated before making a trip to Germany sometime. We had an article about Octoberfest and the differences in drinking culture is pretty suprisng.


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## Evil Bert (Feb 20, 2003)

i think the Olympics would have been an amazing opportunity for Paris to show its multicultural side. The back drop of a world class skyline, historic areas and vibrant and multicultural streetscape would have given the world a different persona of the place 

relax guys, at least the world still thinks beautiful girls come from Paris :0


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## rocky (Apr 20, 2005)

I understand the thread starter, and I think its the parisian bourgoiesie fault.

Having lived abroad, saying that I came from Paris was always leading to people question me about seeing the effeil tower from my window or stuff like that. People saying your city is so fantastic!!!!!!!!
Then the people would be surprised of my behaviour sometimes because when they think of Paris they probably think of a romantic Frenchman with a baguette that offers flowers to women. But I am much more modern and probably sometimes with the inner city youth attitude, and people just dont understand why, because they think that you come from a Paradise on earth. 
They would not question someone from London behaving the same.

But what is really annoying is when you hear people envying you and saying that you are lucky to come from Paris when your everyday life was made of grafities, commieblocks, traffic jams, sometimes violence, or just boring suburbs. And everybody is surprised when you tell them theire is traffic jams in your city or that theire is not much to do in your suburb. Its irritating when people stereotype your life so much.

its like if you say you are african and people would ask you if you go around naked playing tam tam. Its annoying.

But I think the responsibility belongs to the State and the Paris bourgeoisie, as well as the Anti suburb attitude of the Municipality of Paris. They are leftists now but they are still the most snobish people around.
They want to show the posh side to the world and they want to hide the bad side, they want to hide everything that comes from the Poor, the modern world, and of course, sadly, immigration.
Oh, they love african arts, but It will be some trendy posh african arts or statues, not the ones from the suburbs. If they have an hiphop festival, they will try to make it Trendy by mixing it with classical dance or something. Thats just an example
This city refuses its youth, its diversity, as well as modernity in general, and so you can't blame the foreigners really.

To finish, with the riots, some media now say that Paris is surrounded by non white suburbs. I would like to correct it by saying that the suburbs are racially mixed. Its a White Paris Vs a Mixed periphery. Millions of white people live in the periphery. And alot of non white in Paris too. But its true that the MAsses of poor immigrants all live in the periphery


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## Good (Jun 20, 2006)

rocky said:


> Its a White Paris Vs a Mixed periphery. Millions of white people live in the periphery. And alot of non white in Paris too. But its true that the MAsses of poor immigrants all live in the periphery


Not true. Some neighborhoods in Paris are really poor (in the 18, 19, 20) whereas a lot of suburbs are really rich (Versailles, Sceaux, Neuilly, Vincennes, etc.) The divide between a poor East and a rich West is much more significant. And even this is oversimplifying the social and economic discrepancies within the same area and sometimes within the same tiny municipality (for instance: middle class 1930's detached houses versus 1960's commie blocks built in the same district, with two distinct urban and socio-economic worlds clashing across one street). 
Just to give an example, I live in the 15th, in Paris proper, and it's a mix of bourgeois Hausmanian buildings, 60's social housing, 1910's working class projects. People are very diverse: Blacks, Arabs, Chinese, White, etc.
Of course you also have a lot of suburbs in the North-East with 90% social housing. And it's usually in these kinds of suburbs where problems arise.


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## edubejar (Mar 16, 2003)

^^^ rocky, don't feel too much like a victim. You know, many countries and cities are stereotyped. It may not consist of walking with a baguette and offering flowers to women but it may be about eating dogs or wearing a big sombrero...or even better, being fat and ignorant. 

Please, stop all this whining. rocky, you should know how Americans are too stereotyped in France, as well as Spaniards and Italians.


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## edubejar (Mar 16, 2003)

^^^ I do, however, agree with you, rocky, that the bourgeosie and France's aristocratic past, I would add, has something to do with what you are complaining about how youth culture (to a certain extent) is rejected--ethnic youth culture, that is, that revolves a lot around rap and hip hop. But it's possible that things will begin changing in that arena. Unfortunately, Chirac, although he did a lot of good, was awfully conservative in the way he wanted to preserve French culture and its image abroad...French savoir-faire: artisanat, gastronomy, the arts, and maybe even luxury goods. He was an old-fashion man. Sarkozy, although from the same party, is so much younger and clearly more modern and wants change, which I'm clearly seeing, from wearing jeans, walking around with a cell phone, being pro-american, having women and non-white politicians in his administration, to just speaking straight-out and say what he thinks, even if it upsets some people. It's clear to me he wants to welcome new things. Unfortunately people confuse his dislike for delinquency and uncontrolled immigration with intolerance and racism.

Anyway, Paris isn't unique in having a very white, white-collar core and a more mixed, ethnic as well as blue-collar periphery. In other parts of the world like the USA it's the opposite (ethnic/blue-collar inner-city, white suburbs) but the idea is still the same. If anything, Paris and it's metro area is more diversified from what I've seen. For one, all French communes are required to have some social housing (including the rich districts). That is more than the US and other countries can say. So it's not all better in the other side of the fence.


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

Good said:


> Just to give an example, I live in the 15th, in Paris proper, and it's a mix of bourgeois Hausmanian buildings, 60's social housing, 1910's working class projects. People are very diverse: Blacks, Arabs, Chinese, White, etc.
> Of course you also have a lot of suburbs in the North-East with 90% social housing. And it's usually in these kinds of suburbs where problems arise.


Exactly, I live in Montrouge, a trendy municipality for young executive family. (Like Issy les Moulineaux)
In my building where live upper middle class people, many inhabitants are mixed (like me), blacks or asian (Obvious most are white). 

I repost the map of Income in Paris region.
_It is really interesting._


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

montrouge is too gentrified hno:

I prefer Bagneux right next door.


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

This is right but Montrouge is still socially diverse, it is not Sceaux. :lol:


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

sceaux, bourg la reine, montrouge.... all the same thing


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

Southern inner suburbs









According this graphic it is not the case but Montrouge and Chatillon change fast. 

P14 = Paris 14th arrondissement
M = Montrouge
Ma = Malakoff
V = Vanves
B = Bagneux
C = Chatillon
F = Fontenay au Rose
BR = Bourg la Reine
S = Sceaux

I agree this part become an upper middle class ghetto, even Malakoff become wealthy, hno:
Only Bagneux resist.


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