# Crap Towns



## Uncle Phil (Nov 24, 2007)

"The US has hundreds of towns with good business streets. But we have THOUSANDS of significant towns with nothing even remotely like that"

Well obviously your not going to see these kinds of denser streets in huge, brand new suburbs. But I do think the U.S. has just a bit more then a hundred towns that beat that street. You can basically go to any small town East of the Mississippi River and find them.


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## mhays (Sep 12, 2002)

I said "hundreds". Maybe it's 1---. 

On numerous trips to England, I've been consistently impressed by how busy the center is in just about any town. A town of a few thousand can support what seems like several times the pedestrian and retail volume that a US town several times the size could muster. 

I've been to my share of US towns, though admittedly I usually gravitate toward larger cities. Generally, even when a town maintains a good street full of businesses, the actual volume of people and business on main street isn't that high.


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## fettekatz (Oct 17, 2007)

Jaeger said:


> Murder or Suicide??? - Still at least they are in a better place now :lol:
> 
> http://farm1.static.flickr.com/7/11943452_115b299206_o.jpg


that is so sad hno:

around Berlin, in the former east germany you can find a lot of crap towns too.


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## Jaeger (May 11, 2006)

fettekatz said:


> that is so sad hno:
> 
> around Berlin, in the former east germany you can find a lot of crap towns too.



Teeside (including Middlesbrough) are home to the UK Chemical Industry, it is also a port and to be honest the town just serves the needs of industry.

The town was recently voted worst in Britain.

Teeside is home to companies ranging from DuPont, Huntsman, BASF, Union Carbide, even Enron had a power station there, and new chemical plants, port facilitiies, oil refineries and power stations are being built on Teeside at the moment, as the chemical and other industries enjoy a boom time.

Teeside is also one of the top chemical research centres in the world (and home to every major chemical company on the planet). However I am sure the skilled chemical industry 
workers commute in to the chemical plants and industry rather than live beside them.


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## dnp (Apr 4, 2005)

The English will "win" this thread, because I don't think that any other nationalities come remotely close to being so rude about their own country and places where they live.


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## iampuking (Mar 10, 2007)

dnp said:


> The English will "win" this thread, because I don't think that any other nationalities come remotely close to being so rude about their own country and places where they live.


I'm sure there are worse countries...


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## Jaeger (May 11, 2006)

iampuking said:


> And a happy new year
> 
> Seriously though, Jaeger your post made me :rofl:


:lol:

The housing is getting better though - look at this pic I found of bygone Middlesbrough

Hey look at me, I live in a stable. :lol:


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## dnp (Apr 4, 2005)

iampuking said:


> I'm sure there are worse countries...


The country is not the problem, its the constant moaning and dramatising of some (many) of its people


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## iampuking (Mar 10, 2007)

Jaeger said:


> :lol:
> 
> The housing is getting better though - look at this pic I found of bygone Middlesbrough
> 
> Hey look at me, I live in a stable. :lol:


I think we're gonna need some Milton Keynes in this thread.


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## Jaeger (May 11, 2006)

iampuking said:


> I think we're gonna need some Milton Keynes in this thread.


Better still somewhere worse than Middlesbrough - I give you Gary Indiana in the USA.


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## Jaeger (May 11, 2006)

Parts of the Ruhr area in Germany are equally bad.

Thats right soak up the fresh air


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## iampuking (Mar 10, 2007)

Although they're dirty and all, they have a weird beauty about them...


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## Unionstation13 (Aug 31, 2006)

Uncle Phil said:


> "The US has hundreds of towns with good business streets. But we have THOUSANDS of significant towns with nothing even remotely like that"
> 
> Well obviously your not going to see these kinds of denser streets in huge, brand new suburbs. But I do think the U.S. has just a bit more then a hundred towns that beat that street. You can basically go to any small town East of the Mississippi River and find them.


I have to agree with you on this one. Most US towns East of the Mississippi have a main drag of older victorian commercial structures that are often in use. Hell the town I was raised in that has about 50'000 people has a WAY nicer main street with alot more charm.


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## Uncle Phil (Nov 24, 2007)

mhays said:


> I said "hundreds". Maybe it's 1---.
> 
> On numerous trips to England, I've been consistently impressed by how busy the center is in just about any town. A town of a few thousand can support what seems like several times the pedestrian and retail volume that a US town several times the size could muster.
> 
> I've been to my share of US towns, though admittedly I usually gravitate toward larger cities. Generally, even when a town maintains a good street full of businesses, the actual volume of people and business on main street isn't that high.


They dont have the car culture we do. Plus, their cities tend to be much denser.


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## Uncle Phil (Nov 24, 2007)

Unionstation13 said:


> I have to agree with you on this one. Most US towns East of the Mississippi have a main drag of older victorian commercial structures that are often in use. Hell the town I was raised in that has about 50'000 people has a WAY nicer main street with alot more charm.


Yeah, there are some real beautiful small towns in America. The only drawback for many of them is the street life.


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## Unionstation13 (Aug 31, 2006)

Uncle Phil said:


> Yeah, there are some real beautiful small towns in America. The only drawback for many of them is the street life.


Alot of small towns are in the proccess of bringing life back to their downtowns.


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## Xelebes (Apr 1, 2007)

dnp said:


> The English will "win" this thread, because I don't think that any other nationalities come remotely close to being so rude about their own country and places where they live.


Uranium City, Saskatchewan, Canada


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## Bones (Sep 5, 2007)

[QUOTE=Jaeger; Better still somewhere worse than Middlesbrough - I give you Gary Indiana in the USA. 

Yes Gary is awful, basically just an old company town for US Steel. East St. Louis IL, Camden NJ and Newark NJ are also really bad landscapes. Gary also has one additional cross to bare-it's the hometown of Michael Jackson.


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## Unionstation13 (Aug 31, 2006)

Bones said:


> Jaeger; Better still somewhere worse than Middlesbrough - I give you Gary Indiana in the USA. :(
> Yes Gary is awful said:
> 
> 
> > Gary sucks. Its sad because it has so many great buildings and its location along the lake. Oh well. I wouldn't go back there if my life depended on it.


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## NeilF (Apr 22, 2006)

*Belfast, Northern Ireland:*

Peace Divides:


























Musgrave Street Police Station (City Centre):

http://www.planet4589.org/jcm/trips/06/belfast/pict0099.jpg


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## city_thing (May 25, 2006)

_Northumberland not Northumbria (Northumbria was the old anglo-saxon kingdom, Northumberland is the county).

Ashington is an old pit town (population 27,000) and probably most famous for it's footballers such as the Charlton Brothers and Jackie Milburn. The England Cricketer Steve Harmison is also from Ashington.

It is a pit town and has been in decline since the mines closed, with a dwindling population and high unemployment.

As for Sunderland, it's not that bad, and is undergoing massive transformation, it is also part of the Tyne and Wear area and has a direct metro (subway) link with neighbouring Newcastle Upon Tyne.

Sunderland Redevelopment - http://www.sunderlandarc.co.uk/


Sunderland is probably sme kind of demi-paradise when compared to Teeside towns such as Middlesbrough, Billingham, Redcar etc.

Billingham_

I spent some time living in Newbiggin-by-the-sea, right beside Ashington. My mother is actually from Sunderland. Believe me, whilst they're not as bad as some cities in Teeside, they're a frighteningly crappy. Ashington especially, the city gives a whole new meaning to the term "underclass"


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## Jaeger (May 11, 2006)

city_thing said:


> I spent some time living in Newbiggin-by-the-sea, right beside Ashington. My mother is actually from Sunderland. Believe me, whilst they're not as bad as some cities in Teeside, they're a frighteningly crappy. Ashington especially, the city gives a whole new meaning to the term "underclass"


I have been to Northumberland and indeed Ashington. Newbiggin and Ashington are fairly small old mining towns in the middle of nowhere, possibly similar to the numerous one horse towns you have in the back of beyond in Oz. This type of old mining town would be the same in OZ with the addition of Aborigines sniffing petrol and falling around drunk. 

The Northumberland coast does have some beautiful areas and the train journey to Edinburgh is quite stunning, it is just sad that a couple of crap towns like Blyth, Ashington and Newbiggin blight a small part of such a beautiful area.

The same is true of Teeside, it borders the magnificent North Yorkshire Moors, and has beautiful countryside all around.


Blyth Harbour 

The Power Station has now been demolished.


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## Uncle Phil (Nov 24, 2007)

Bones said:


> Jaeger; Better still somewhere worse than Middlesbrough - I give you Gary Indiana in the USA. :(
> Yes Gary is awful said:
> 
> 
> ...


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

I lived in Slough for 6months and didn't find it that bad to be honest. Year, that bus station was hideous, and the high street was nothing special, but I have seen a lot worse in the UK and other country's, That photo only shows the older part of the high street, most of it from memory is a wider pedestrian street (though no better in architecture). The train station is quite a beautiful old building but in desperate need of renovation last time I stopped there. And the area around Slough is absolutely beautiful, with Eton and Windsor an easy walk away (yes, walk), Maidenhead a short drive or train journey and of cause it's in the Thames Valley.

By the way, the Slough Industrial Estate is actually quite cheerful for an "Industrial Estate", not grim at all, with many high tech companies based there.

Now, Middlesbrough... that looks grim.

Someone should post photos of Gary, some from the air, and some from the main streets etc so we can compare.


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## japanese001 (Mar 17, 2007)

The human being must find a good method early.hno:


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## taboe (Jan 30, 2007)

there are industrial cities like the ones that have been shown here all over the world...

La Louviere:










another type of crap town is the "_ it used to be nice, but was ruined in the '60-'70s_"-type. 
Most of the Belgian coast qualifies as this type:

*oostende*
this:


















became this:


















and it's like that for 40km along the coasthno:


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## fettekatz (Oct 17, 2007)

^^ was Oostende destroyed in the war or did they just replace the old buildings with concrete shoe boxes?


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## Nikom (Sep 24, 2005)

*Portugal-Carregado*


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## steppenwolf (Oct 18, 2002)

I lived in Middlesbrough for a year. It was once on its way to becoming a fantastic city. Then in the 60s 70s 80s... 90s and 00s the Council (stupid elected members of the public) and the plannign department (stupid members of the public) ruined the town with incredibly bad mistakes... notably building an elevated bypass through the heart of the town cutting off one half which died, and demolishing a number of incredible old buildings. The has been incrementally devalued physically over the years by the demolition of anything old and sturdy, to be replaced by something momentarily fashionable with a lifespan of 5 years or somethign that will 'create jobs'....

oh dear, its all very tragic really.


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## taboe (Jan 30, 2007)

fettekatz said:


> ^^ was Oostende destroyed in the war or did they just replace the old buildings with concrete shoe boxes?


it suffered in the war, but most of the buildings were torn down to be replaced with appartements...


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## Bones (Sep 5, 2007)

Someone should post photos of Gary, some from the air, and some from the main streets etc so we can compare.[/QUOTE]




























Maybe Middlesborough is not so bad after all!


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## Beware (Oct 30, 2007)

rocky said:


> midlesborough just won the contest, no need to post your city unless you are from prypiat


 It's a tie with Billingham. Ooh, That's hard to watch!


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## Cheesiness (Dec 7, 2007)

Ah, but at least those crappy euro towns have enough density to support 1st world infrastructure. 

Dirranbandi, Queensland, Australia.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

Thanks for the Gary pictures. Were those last two the main street?


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## iampuking (Mar 10, 2007)

Bones said:


> Someone should post photos of Gary, some from the air, and some from the main streets etc so we can compare.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does anyone actually live there, or does no-one use the streets? :nuts:


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## Bones (Sep 5, 2007)

You would be mad to walk around there. It is the murder capital of the US.
The best idea would be to demolish it.


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## iampuking (Mar 10, 2007)

People murder, not buildings... Silly logic.


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

my heart bleeds for Oostende


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## Chicagoago (Dec 2, 2005)

Downtown Gary is mostly abandoned. Even the midrises downtown are just empty shells. I've seen pictures of abandoned high schools, the entire shopping street, train stations, hotels, the Cathedral, the city Auditorium, theatres, everything. A lot of it was just torn down, but they still have a long way to go to clear out the abandoned buildings.

Even the decent sized airport in Gary has no flights anymore....just the lonely terminals and runways.

The population peaked at around 180,000 people, but is around 98,000 today. A lot of the population today just pushed southward in the city, leaving the original north side mostly empty. No one goes there, it's very creepy.

The city was built to house workers in the steel mills, but when those jobs left - the people left as well.

http://www.forbidden-places.net/urban-exploration-gary-indiana-ghost-town

Very amazing photos...

Here are more, these are mostly in the city center:


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## taboe (Jan 30, 2007)

^^ it's a pity, a lot of those places would look nice if they cleaned 'em up...


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## Uncle Phil (Nov 24, 2007)

Ive driven through downtown Gary at night. They have a minor league baseball team there, which brings some life downtown. The rest of the city is dark. Despite being right near Chicago and on the shores of Lake Michigan, you do feel isolated in that city. Its truly a city that I wouldnt want to have my car break down at.


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## milquetoast (Jul 31, 2007)




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## milquetoast (Jul 31, 2007)

Jaeger said:


> :lol:
> 
> The housing is getting better though - look at this pic I found of bygone Middlesbrough
> 
> Hey look at me, I live in a stable. :lol:


Awwwww, don't laugh at this poor girl, she did the best she could.:nono:


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## milquetoast (Jul 31, 2007)

Bones said:


> You would be mad to walk around there. It is the murder capital of the US.
> The best idea would be to demolish it.





iampuking said:


> People murder, not buildings... Silly logic.


It is logic. Crap buildings in crap towns breed crap people, who then murder- is "crap town" a European term?


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

^British to be exact.


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## iampuking (Mar 10, 2007)

milquetoast said:


> It is logic. Crap buildings in crap towns breed crap people, who then murder- is "crap town" a European term?


You're probably right.


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## Bones (Sep 5, 2007)

Most poilice forces in dying cities like Detroit will support a policy of demolition. Vacant buildings become crack houses. Women are often dragged into them and raped. They serve as nests for gangbangers. What stops these cities from declining faster is the cheapness of the housing. There are areas where houses can be bought for $5,000.


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## Dimension (Aug 18, 2007)

That looks like the plant in the movie "Catch A Fire"


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## Martin S (Sep 12, 2002)

I just find it very sad to see places that once housed vibrant communities and which are now wastelands. 

I went to see an exhibition called 'Shrinking Cities' in Manchester last week and there was a striking aerial photograph of an area of Detroit known as Bush Park, which is a suburb near the centre. 

The grid plan of the streets is still there but most of the houses seem to have either been completely demolished or are else in a partially collapsed state. However from the few intact house that remain, which seem to date from the late 19c, you can see that this must once have been a very attractive area.

However, I would not classify Gary, Indiana or Detroit, Michigan or Middlesbrough, Cleveland as 'Crap Towns'. I expect that these were once great places that have fallen on hard times and may well come back some time in the future.

I think the Betjeman poem captures the essence of a Crap Town. In 'Come Friendly Bombs' he is drawing attention to places that destroy the human spirit with their materialism and lack of vision. He may have been unfair to Slough as there are many places like that throughout the prosperous countries of the world.


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## Cristovão471 (May 9, 2006)

I one day want to visit Flint Michigan and Gary, Indiana.
I find it so interesting how entire American cities can simply deteriorate.


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## Bones (Sep 5, 2007)

Take a gun! :guns1:
It is not that complicated. Flint is a pure factory town for General Motors. Gary was built as a factory town for US Steel. Steel and autos only employ a fraction of their previous workforces. Once the jobs have declined there is no reason to stay. The mystery isn't why the population has declined, but why so many remain. The answer is probably extremely cheap housing.


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## milquetoast (Jul 31, 2007)

:cheers:


Jaeger said:


> Murder or Suicide??? - Still at least they are in a better place now :lol:


Guys, I di'int mean to come off all righteous and such earlier, but this concept of crap towns just kills me! Some architectural firm comes in and puts in a bus or train station that, over time, becomes a public joke. Or a city declines over time, and you end up with old people breathin' in 'fresh' air while they're overlooking a..crap town! You guys are evil with the captions! Look at this guy, can't wait to videotape the latest lottery winner who's left for greener pastures! Godspeed, you lucky bloke!


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## xlchris (Jun 23, 2006)

It will look great, just have some people that rebuild it and then you can sell it!


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## jarbury (Aug 20, 2007)

Wow I can't believe that was done to Oostende. 

Gary takes a lot of beating.


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## Unionstation13 (Aug 31, 2006)

For those of you who have not seen Gary before. It has some great architecture but sadly it seems like a city that was bombed in WWII.
(PICS BY COLDAYMAN)
*Gary*, Indiana


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## Bluestreak (Nov 23, 2004)

Gary does have an area called Miller that isn't run down. It is along the lake and has a nice beach with views of Chicago's skyline. On the whole it's a hole though.


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## Unionstation13 (Aug 31, 2006)

^^ Miller is nice, but it can't compare to Indiana dunes.


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## Frankfurter_Bockwurst (Aug 8, 2007)

I love Crap towns Oo


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## Snowy (Nov 6, 2006)

Unionstation13 said:


> ^^ Miller is nice, but it can't compare to Indiana dunes.


Don't you mean Indiana Jones?


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## Unionstation13 (Aug 31, 2006)

^^ No Indiana dunes is a famouse beach. 0_o


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## Snowy (Nov 6, 2006)

Unionstation13 said:


> ^^ No Indiana dunes is a famouse beach. 0_o


T'was a (admittedly bad) joke my American friend, hence the winking smiley. And they say Americans don't get irony............I'm sure that Indiana Dunes is very nice.


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## Beware (Oct 30, 2007)

Chicagoago said:


> Downtown Gary is mostly abandoned. Even the midrises downtown are just empty shells. I've seen pictures of abandoned high schools, the entire shopping street, train stations, hotels, the Cathedral, the city Auditorium, theatres, everything. A lot of it was just torn down, but they still have a long way to go to clear out the abandoned buildings.
> 
> Even the decent sized airport in Gary has no flights anymore....just the lonely terminals and runways.
> 
> ...


mg:*This reminds Me of the Bronx, in NYC, during the 1970's. * Which was, in Every way, just as bad!  This is largely the result of " White Flight " from inner cities. That statement isn't meant as a blame or excuse for This atrocity. It's, just, Reality! 

White employers and residents, even more prosperous blacks, abandoned the city. Gary's remaining, overwhelmingly Black, population is poor and incapable of reviving the city Themselves. You get the picture (NO PUN INTENDED)..... Poor civic administration, government funding, lack of private and resident investment, etc. results in This situation. This is a, national, disgrace!


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## TohrAlkimista (Dec 18, 2006)

The crappiest town of the world is Prypiat!


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## crusty_bint (May 16, 2004)

That place Gary looks so surreal - like Silent Hill!


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## philadweller (Oct 30, 2003)

Gary still has more charm that any cookie cut cul-de-sac development.


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## GreenwichSE10 (Oct 26, 2006)

i was in widnes at the weekendhno:


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

I hope you walked with a limp to fit in.


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## trainrover (May 6, 2006)

taboe said:


> Most of the Belgian coast qualifies as this type:
> 
> *oostende*
> this:
> ...


Ouch. Incredible.







Bones said:


>


I don't see Gary, Indiana, USA, falling into this category at all. Crap towns aren't embellished. Gary looks like it had much cash
to flaunt, while the intial entrants appear to have amounted to rot right since their (damned!) inceptions..... For example,
that midrise in the background in the shot above here? It looks to might fine a building to be hailing from some crap town.






Bones said:


> Most poilice forces in dying cities like Detroit will support a policy of demolition.


Not unique -- t'is no secret that Montreal's fire deparment have been perceived to have let multi-storey buildings burn to
the ground in recent memory, virtually for the same kind of reasons as what you related in your posting.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

Ostend still does have charm, and it is a lively city, especially in the shopping area and the fantastic seafood stalls on the beach. But year, it's such a pity those beautiful buildings were destroyed for what rubbish we have now.

Imagine how magnificient this town would appear today if those buildings remained.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

I actually think that building looks great! In a mid-century googie way.


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## krudmonk (Jun 14, 2007)

jzt83 said:


> I actually think that building looks great! In a mid-century googie way.


That's anything but googie, which is bright and friendly. It's a disastrous attempt at modernism. That weird netting effect is too rigid. Luckily, it's not huge and ominous.


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## fettekatz (Oct 17, 2007)

^^ I'm sure that building looked nice back in the 60s


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## Stretch (Sep 9, 2007)

This thread made me think of this song.


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## Czas na Żywiec (Jan 17, 2005)

TohrAlkimista said:


> The crappiest town of the world is Prypiat!


Before or after Chornobyl'?


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## ranny fash (Apr 24, 2005)

^haha. im sure some isolated siberian towns could be called truly crap towns, the ones that look like pripyat (without the radiation)


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## frustratedarchitect (Oct 18, 2007)

Visiting those abandonned areas in Gary Indiana would be creepy, but exciting. Very movie worthy


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## robk1982 (Nov 20, 2007)

cristobal_underscore said:


> I one day want to visit Flint Michigan and Gary, Indiana.
> I find it so interesting how entire American cities can simply deteriorate.



Flint probably isn't as bad as you think. Gary is MUCH, MUCH worse.


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

Detroit is listed in Lonely planet as a must-see destination in the US, alongside NYC, San Fransisco etc. Basically its what-can-go-wrong appeal, and exciting and interesting walking through what is a 'ghost city', with urban blocks reverting back to farmland.

Basically if that would pique your interest, catch it while you can before the city regenerates.


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## canucker16 (Jan 13, 2008)

oh my god. how can anyone live there??? those photos are depressing to look at, i can't imagine having to live in such a place! how could you drive down this street and not be depressed and how could you justify living there??

flint michigan looks really bad as well. rated poorest city in america pretty consistently or something.

thankfully, my town is the opposite of crap so i can't make much of a contribution there! but i will second the saskatchewan nomination because really anywhere with a saskatchewan address could be labeled crap!! haha


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

Well ya know what they say, deprived places completely bypassed by development will be the UNESCO Heritage Sites of the future - hence Pingyao, a rich trade town fallen on hard times and preserved for 300 years, similarly many places on the defunct Silk Route.


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## canucker16 (Jan 13, 2008)

haha, alright. and how does that justify living there now?!


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

hey, come back in 300 years


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## dtzeigler (Jan 4, 2008)

Gary makes Detroit look awesome!


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## Unionstation13 (Aug 31, 2006)

Gary has alot of grand architecture from the turn of the century and many high density areas. I can imagine how great it must have been at one time.


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## trainrover (May 6, 2006)

canucker16 said:


> oh my god. how can anyone live there??? those photos are depressing to look at


How come? Do you really think its skies there end up being greyer than your 'burb's?!? Me, I'd live on any street that shoves its utility wires underground.

I reckon your exclusionary comments put down folks possessing edgier tastes -- I dunno, I'd hate to boast my hailing from some city (just like yours) where the most exciting activity to do around town is to vacate it....


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## jarbury (Aug 20, 2007)

I do wonder whether a city like Gary will ever be able to truly recover. Seems like it's not quite big enough to transform into having other major industries, like Detroit is likely to in the long-term, which can encourage people back to the place.

Then again, you do get some scary bits in most cities. In San Francisco, the part of Market Street between United Nations Plaza and the San Francisco Westfield I found creepy as hell, all bang smack in the middle of one of the richest cities in the US.


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## GTR22 (Nov 14, 2007)

Thats the Tenderloin, one of the poorest parts of the city.


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## canucker16 (Jan 13, 2008)

trainrover said:


> How come? Do you really think its skies there end up being greyer than your 'burb's?!? Me, I'd live on any street that shoves its utility wires underground.
> 
> I reckon your exclusionary comments put down folks possessing edgier tastes -- I dunno, I'd hate to boast my hailing from some city (just like yours) where the most exciting activity to do around town is to vacate it....


i shouldn't even dignify your condescending post with a response but i will.

a) i don't live in the suburbs, b) yes i'd rather live somewhere that wasn't run-down and abandoned, in fact i would rather live in the suburbs than live there! my personal opinion is that i find it depressing, doubt you would live there. c) not sure why you're slagging off vancouver, one of the most livable cities in the world. d) wasn't an attempt to slag off the place, just find it super depressing, pretty sure i'm entitled to my opinion, as you are yours, however snarky it may be. now if you think the place is lovely and "edgy", great. i'm not here to pick a fight about it. gave my 2 cents on a place that i felt fitted the bill of a "crap town", the title of the thread.


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