# Major cities with the fewest motorways/divided highways?



## tablemtn (May 2, 2006)

Which major cities have the lowest motorway lane distance relative to population? Clearly there will be some large metro areas like Kinshasa that have few motorways, but that is mostly due to drastic underdevelopment. But among cities with at least a moderate amount of development, which ones have the fewest divided motorways, and why?


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

Technically about 4km total inside Budapest.
But if I count expressways and "expressways-but-not-at-expressway-rank"s, then its ~35,3km,literally inside the city limits. Budapest has ~1,7m inhabitants.


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## tablemtn (May 2, 2006)

How about the Budapest metro area?


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## TheCreass (Sep 10, 2007)

Probably London.

London has virtually no motorways.

Probably because the city is too built up and too historic. You can't just go and build a 10 lane highway through London - too dense. Also, London is pretty much completely mass transit orientated and having a car there is a liability and discouraged by the mayor.


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## wyqtor (Jan 15, 2007)

Bucharest. It doesn't even have a proper motorway ring/bypass. :nuts:

The reason: abysmally bad planning during the Communist period + the incompetence of current politicians.


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## vancouverite/to'er (Apr 22, 2007)

Vancouver...a few tiny ones. Toronto..a few monsters


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## LordMandeep (Apr 10, 2006)

we have fewer highways then other American metro of our size but the ones we have our massive...

Only LA or Houston have bigger wider highways...


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## sumisu (Apr 29, 2006)

Dublin has hardly any motorways. basically a ring-road outside the main city, but nothing downtown. Driving is horrible.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Half the world major city's have no proper roads, especially in Asia and Africa.


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

tablemtn said:


> How about the Budapest metro area?


I dont think that has proper boundaries,so I cant give you a number for that. But in the county surrounding it(plus the city added),there are 184,3km of motorways and expressways..


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## PlaneMad (Apr 10, 2005)

Mumbai without a doubt, if you consider relative to population. and you can no longer classify mumbai as underdeveloped.


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## Patrick (Sep 11, 2002)

Reutlingen is the only city in germany with more than 100.000 inhabitants (out of around 80 cities) which lacks a direct access to an autobahn, the next autobahns are 30km away


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## x-type (Aug 19, 2005)

Zagreb doesn't have city motorways. it has bypass, it has some fast city roads, but all of them have traffic lights and i consider about them as normal avenues (although main radial has a lot of multilevel intersections, too, but also a lot of traffic lights)


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Patrick said:


> Reutlingen is the only city in germany with more than 100.000 inhabitants (out of around 80 cities) which lacks a direct access to an autobahn, the next autobahns are 30km away


Yeah, but it has some semi-motorways (Gelbe Autobahnen) in the vicinity, like the B27 and B28 towards Tübingen, Stuttgart and Balingen.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

TheCreass said:


> Probably London.
> 
> London has virtually no motorways.
> 
> Probably because the city is too built up and too historic. You can't just go and build a 10 lane highway through London - too dense. Also, London is pretty much completely mass transit orientated and having a car there is a liability and discouraged by the mayor.


Doesn't London have the M1, M4, and M11 or something on the fringes?

I do agree with you, compared to a metro with a similar size here (like LA), London has nothing in comparison.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

London does have some motorways forking a little into the urban area, but it's nothing. There are also some A-roads with controlled acces, but that's not really motorway-standard. 

Another city with poor infrastructure is Rome, Italy. Only a ringroad, and that's about it.


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## Ballota (Oct 24, 2005)

Split has a 7km, 6-8 lane, 100% grade-seperated bypass.
It could be called a city motorway, beacuse the area is all built up now.

Also, there is a 13km grade-seperated expressway to the A1 motorway connection.

Through the suburbs of Kaštela there is a partialy grade-seperated expressway, some 20km long.

Here it is the whole expressway system (with interchanges):









For a city area od 350.000 it could be better...but the current state isn't so bad too... :cheers:


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## wyqtor (Jan 15, 2007)

^^ I really like Split and it's motorways. BTW, when I was there 2 years ago, the expressway from the city to the A1 was only 1+2 (2 lanes up the mountain, one down), not separated. Did they expand it?


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## 54°26′S 3°24′E (Oct 26, 2007)

TheCreass said:


> Probably London.
> 
> London has virtually no motorways.
> 
> Probably because the city is too built up and too historic. You can't just go and build a 10 lane highway through London - too dense. Also, London is pretty much completely mass transit orientated and having a car there is a liability and discouraged by the mayor.





TenRot said:


> Doesn't London have the M1, M4, and M11 or something on the fringes?
> 
> I do agree with you, compared to a metro with a similar size here (like LA), London has nothing in comparison.





Chriszwolle said:


> London does have some motorways forking a little into the urban area, but it's nothing. There are also some A-roads with controlled acces, but that's not really motorway-standard.
> 
> Another city with poor infrastructure is Rome, Italy. Only a ringroad, and that's about it.


I wouldn't say London has a poor infrastructure. It has a well-developed and efficient mass transit system. Of course it would be possible to drill tunnels for massive undeground highways etc. in addition to the current subway and train lines, but if I should be able to ski also in the future the rest of the cities of the world should follow London's suit, not the other way around.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

Tehran and Tabriz doesn't really have much of a motorway network when i visited them few years. They were more like multi-lane high speed roads with roundabouts and traffic lights.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

> I wouldn't say London has a poor infrastructure. It has a well-developed and efficient mass transit system.


Ofcourse, but we are kind of talking about roads here. Large cities do need a good roadsystem, despite of how large the mass-transit is. Look at New York, a massive mass-transit system, though the roads are still busy as hell there. 

It's an utopia you can meet all transportation demand by mass-transit. I think there has to be a good balance, like you see in Madrid or Barcelona.


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## Ballota (Oct 24, 2005)

wyqtor said:


> ^^ I really like Split and it's motorways. BTW, when I was there 2 years ago, the expressway from the city to the A1 was only 1+2 (2 lanes up the mountain, one down), not separated. Did they expand it?


I'm glad you wisited my city. 

Yes...now that road is widened to 2 + 3 lanes.
It was a tough job, beacuse the terrain is terrible!
Almost the entire lenght of the road is in viaducts and tunnels... :nuts:


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## 54°26′S 3°24′E (Oct 26, 2007)

Chriszwolle said:


> Ofcourse, but we are kind of talking about roads here. Large cities do need a good roadsystem, despite of how large the mass-transit is. Look at New York, a massive mass-transit system, though the roads are still busy as hell there.
> 
> It's an utopia you can meet all transportation demand by mass-transit. I think there has to be a good balance, like you see in Madrid or Barcelona.


I think you are mixing up need with demand here. Of course, if you built megaroads in London they would almost certainly be filled up with cars ("demand"), but it appears to me that London is functioning very well without them ("need"). In fact, a common denominator of the most successful and important cities and financial centers of this planet (London, New York, and Tokyo) is a road system that is relatively underdimensioned relative to their population compared with other cities, but with a sophisticated public transport network.


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## Smelser (May 13, 2006)

vancouverite/to'er said:


> Vancouver...a few tiny ones. Toronto..a few monsters


Right, vancouverite. Resisting freeways is a secular religion in Vancouver, and has been since the 1960s. The city taxpayers weren't prepared to pay for freeways in the City proper that would primarily benefit commuters from the suburbs. 

Today the debate has changed a bit, but only a bit. Now the City of Vancouver and Burnaby as well don't want the provincial government to twin the Port Mann Bridge and widen Hwy 1, by 1 additional lane to a total of 8, for fear that might slighly reduce high residential property values enjoyed by their residents (untaxed capital gain in the principal residence), and might also lead to a greater dispersion in the industrial and commercial tax base to surburban municipalities.


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## tablemtn (May 2, 2006)

Tokyo is an interesting example. For a metro area as big as Tokyo, it doesn't have that many lanes worth of motorway distance. However, it does have expressways going right into the middle of downtown Tokyo. The Shuto Expressway system (首都高速道路, if you want to search for it in Japanese) has a route map which looks like this:










In addition, the system is being expanded, and new expressways are being built or planned.

So, Tokyo may not have that many expressways, but the system does go right to the center of the metro area.


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## Milan Luka (Oct 10, 2007)

Mate_Balota said:


> Yes...now that road is widened to 2 + 3 lanes.
> It was a tough job, beacuse the terrain is terrible!
> Almost the entire lenght of the road is in viaducts and tunnels... :nuts:


Tvoj grad je lijep, želim povratak.

Im impressed if that road has been developed. I drove on it two years ago and thought the terrain would never lend to being upgraded like that. Needed because the general traffic was terrible.

Really liked the tunnel underneath Marjan. That was an engineering feat.


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## Ballota (Oct 24, 2005)

Milan Luka said:


> Tvoj grad je lijep, želim povratak.


:cheers1:



> Im impressed if that road has been developed. I drove on it two years ago and thought the terrain would never lend to being upgraded like that. Needed because the general traffic was terrible.


Yes!
I would dare to say it's the most attractive road in Croatia!
The view is INCREDIBLE!
You're driving at the hight of some 60m....on a steap hill...lookin some 200m down to the Split bay area.
You can see all the way to Trogir...some 30km away. :nuts:

Here is a pic taken by me from one of the viaducts:









This is a small section of that road...just to give a general picture (some lower viaducts...and one of the tunnels):











> Really liked the tunnel underneath Marjan. That was an engineering feat.


Oh well...it is quite usefull.
It connected the east city center to it's west.
But it's only one tube. Now they are planing to bore another one, to increse capacity. :cheers:


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## oliver999 (Aug 4, 2006)

i think beijing or LA has the most huge expressways and intercrosses system.


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## rick1016 (Jan 16, 2005)

This is from Geography Lists. I know the writer of this book!!



> "Most larger U.S. cities are served by the Interstate Highway system (identified with that interstate shield). The cities listed below have no Interstate Highways within the city limits (or within 10 miles), though all have at least one other highway which is built as a freeway.
> 
> 1. Fresno, CA
> 2. Anchorage, AK *
> ...



http://www.geographylists.com/list3a.html


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## marrio415 (Jun 18, 2006)

only the newish citeis will have the big motorways going right through em as there is no historic buildings to make way for them.London does have historic buildings therefore it cannot happen.Besides london releys on it's transport infrastructure which is pretty damn good.


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## radi6404 (May 13, 2007)

Sofia is a capital town without many motorways connecting it, too. Blagoevgrad has no motorway, at least a 15 km long motorway like road as part of the E-79 but it just has 80 000 inhabitants.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

Chriszwolle said:


> Ofcourse, but we are kind of talking about roads here. Large cities do need a good roadsystem, despite of how large the mass-transit is. Look at New York, a massive mass-transit system, though the roads are still busy as hell there.
> 
> It's an utopia you can meet all transportation demand by mass-transit. I think there has to be a good balance, like you see in Madrid or Barcelona.


London Road Map










There are a couple of motorways poking their way into the city but it's mostly expressways once you get into the built-up area.


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## Blackpool88 (Nov 15, 2007)

Jonesy55 said:


> London Road Map
> 
> 
> 
> ...



just out of curiosity, would some of Londons expressways be considered as motorways in other countries? for example the North circular is mainly 3-lane duel carriageway isn't it? and roads like the A12


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## xzmattzx (Dec 24, 2004)

In the US, Fresno is the biggest city without an Interstate. It does have California Route 99, which is an expressway, and that road has been mentioned as becoming a possible I-7.

I've noticed in road atlases that Winnipeg has no expressways or limited-access highways at all. Can anyone confirm this? Vancouver also doesn't have expressways in the center of town, but there are expressways outside of the city.


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## TheCat (Apr 21, 2006)

Well, I think expressways are also often underrated. It is true that they have much less capacity than true motorways, but technically, a city with 10 expressways through it may have a much better road system than a city with 2 motorways through it and the rest just streets.

Expressways have the advantage of an increased capacity, safety, and speed limits, without the need to build huge space-consuming interchanges, the construction of which may not be possible in many dense cities (nor desirable, in many cases, since motorways are known to interfere with the lives of people living in their vicinity).

It is possible to design expressways without frequent junctions, to cut down on the number of traffic lights, or to build partial interchanges, such as an individual flyover for a particular intersection and traffic direction that is particularly busy.

For example, in Toronto (well, technically outside in the suburbs), we have Highway 7, which is technically like a major street, but it is an expressway with a speed limit of 70-80 km/h (as opposed to most main streets, which are 60km/h), 3+ lanes in each direction. The junctions are mixed, but are generally built to higher capacities than normal roads.

There are some junctions with regular traffic lights, but most junctions within urban limits have separate left-turn signals (something that is otherwise not common in Toronto), and others have junctions with traffic lights that only allow right turns from the expressway (to a road that later allows access to the opposite direction too), with the traffic lights acting only to allow left turns onto the expressway (although this is not allowed everywhere too). During rush hour, it is often more beneficial to take the expressway, as usually it flows faster than parallel streets.

Maybe we should open a thread about non-motorway expressways? Should be interesting  However, currently, I'm too busy with exams to do that.


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## ale26 (Sep 9, 2005)

Toronto has some of the biggest Highways / Interchanges in the world


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

It's difficult to define what a "non-motorway expressway" is. Some think it has to have controlled acces, some other think a 2x2 with traffic lights is an expressway.


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## TheCat (Apr 21, 2006)

Well, I think a good definition (legal issues aside) should be: "A road with at least 2 lanes in each direction with a wider-than-usual or physical separation median with a higher speed limit than a normal street, and without (or very few) private properties directly encroaching on the road." For example, almost all major streets in Toronto are at least 2x2, and many are 3x3, and usually have a speed limit of 60km/h (sometimes 50km/h), as opposed to smaller streets, which usually have a limit of 40-50km/h.

But these main streets are not expressways, because they allow turning left from the middle lane (i.e. the separation median, a common thing in North America), have private driveways and shopping plazas directly exiting to the road, lower speed limits, etc.

I don't think that the particular type of junction used on the expressway is necessarily important to a road being classified as such, but generally the junctions are of higher safety/capacity, because they have to take into consideration the higher speed limits. But I don't think that complete access control should be a criterion, because I would say that if a road is completely access-controlled, it is a motorway in loose terms, since as you know, the particular criteria to be classified as a "motorway" (such as curve radii, shoulder width, etc.) vary greatly from country to country as well. Many expressways are partially access controlled, however, and that is fine.

In fact, it would be interesting to see pictures of expressways in other places in the world, and also descriptions of the types of junctions used.


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## radi6404 (May 13, 2007)

I don´t understand that you guys imediatelly degrade motorway parts which don´t have shoulders all the time but all other features of a motorway as expressways.


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## LordMandeep (Apr 10, 2006)

no one here sees highway 7 or highway 10 or highway 5 as express routes...which may be seen as expressways to some... 

Anyways I remember in Sydney i got on a motorway and I was like go fast to my cousin and.....

then there was a traffic light!!!

I was like what kind of highway is this???


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

ssiguy2 said:


> Vancouverr has no freeways within the city which has about 600,000.
> The closet freeway to downtown Vancouver 3 km away and its only a standard 4 lane highway.


Yeah, but the difference to European cities is, that Vancouver has an extensive grid street network, which allows traffic to spread on many multi-lane roads. In the Netherlands, most urban roads exist out of one lane roads which serve an entire neighborhood. So all traffic packs on that single one lane road. 

Even in Amsterdam, there aren't many 4 lane roads besides the motorway ringroad. And even if there is space, they think making a 2 way bus road with a bus every now and then is more efficient than 4 lanes for the other traffic.


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## Dion (Aug 1, 2006)

LordMandeep said:


> no one here sees highway 7 or highway 10 or highway 5 as express routes...which may be seen as expressways to some...
> 
> Anyways I remember in Sydney i got on a motorway and I was like go fast to my cousin and.....
> 
> ...


Sounds like you were on one of those really short motorway standard roads that there are quite a few of in Sydney (eg James Ruse Drive, Gladesville bridge, Syd Einfeld Drive a.k.a Bondi Junction Bypass or the Burnt Bridge Creek Deviation.). Some of these were originally meant to be part of the motorway/freeway network, but the links between them eventually got cancelled.


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## Smelser (May 13, 2006)

Chriszwolle said:


> Yeah, but the difference to European cities is, that Vancouver has an extensive grid street network, which allows traffic to spread on many multi-lane roads.


Most of Vancouver's city streets are just two lane local roads, serving residential neigborhoods. Only a very few are four or six lane roads.
In the absence of any highways or freeways in the city, these major local streets (Hastings, Oak, Granville, ...) are pressed into service for longer distance travel, and the 50km speed limit is totally disregarded as traffic goes 60 to 70 kmh on average. The principal connection from downtown to the Trans-Canada Hwy is Grandview Hwy and East 12th Avenue. Most of East 12th Ave is a narrow four lane street, but with parking permitted except during rush hours with the result that there are only two thru lanes. All along East 12th there are residences, single family dwellings, and many homeowners have done extensive renovations and restorations, assured by the City that their street is not a highway and will never be widened.


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## LordMandeep (Apr 10, 2006)

However it is rather surprising how fast people will go on urban 4-lane road.


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## Sphynx (Jan 2, 2005)

Chriszwolle said:


> Yeah, but the difference to European cities is, that Vancouver has an extensive grid street network, which allows traffic to spread on many multi-lane roads.


Very true, and remember that Vancouver only represents around ~26 percent of the Metro Vancouver population. The Metro Vancouver region currently has 4 freeways (99, 91, 1, Knight) while the Golden Ears freeway/expressway is currently being built.

The Mary Hill Bypass, a portion of Lougheed Highway, and the 17 will be upgraded to freeways and the Serpentine freeway and Southern freeway corridors will be built in the longer term.

It's getting there.


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## Nima-Farid (Jul 13, 2010)

Shiraz has a few urban expressway in Iran. Tehran has a lot of Expressways. Mashhad, Esfahan and Tabriz too. But Shiraz doesnt' have enough urban expressways.


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## Haljackey (Feb 14, 2008)

I believe London, Ontario is the largest city in North America that does not have a freeway to serve local traffic.

The city has nearly 400,000 in the, with just under 500,000 total in the metro area.

Here's a pic of the city from Google Maps. Note Highway 401 and 402 to the south which bypass the city.


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## iMiros (Aug 21, 2009)

- Winner is Bangui, capital of Central African Republic. The city with 600,000 residents does not have even a meter of 4 lane roads or streets.

- Capital of Malawi, has about 900,000 inhabitants, and only 1 km of 4 lane street (Chilambula street).

African capitals generally have very poor road infrastructure. With the exception of these two extreme examples, capitals like the Luanda, Kigali, Kampala or Mogadishu hardly to have more than 5 kilometers of 4 lane roads.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Actually Luanda has a 55 km ring road that seems to be built to expressway standards. It's called the "via expressa".


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## Comfortably Numb (Dec 19, 2007)

London (UK) must win this one hands down.


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## I-275westcoastfl (Feb 15, 2005)

The Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater Metro of about 3 million lacks motorways.


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

I-275westcoastfl said:


> The Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater Metro of about 3 million lacks motorways.


?
I-4, I-75, I-275....


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Still, it's not very much, only I-275 really serves the urban area. Large portions of the St. Petersburg peninsula do not have any nearby freeways.


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## jandeczentar (Aug 14, 2009)

Comfortably Numb said:


> London (UK) must win this one hands down.


Back in the day London was supposed to have 4 motorway ringroads and many more radial motorways. Most of it was dropped though and the plan was only partially built. It's a pity really; a city of 8.5million relying on a street plan from the Medieval period.

See CBRD's very comprehensive history of the 'Ringways' plan for more information.


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## Harry (Nov 8, 2002)

jandeczentar said:


> Back in the day London was supposed to have 4 motorway ringroads and many more radial motorways. Most of it was dropped though and the plan was only partially built. It's a pity really; a city of 8.5million relying on a street plan from the Medieval period.
> 
> See CBRD's very comprehensive history of the 'Ringways' plan for more information.


I shudder to think of the destruction that would have been inflicted on central London had the Ringways plan been implemented in its entirety. I agree that certain aspects of it would have been helpful (such as the building of the South Circular to grade separated standards and the extension of the M23 through South London to meet this), but I'm very glad that the more central rings were not completed.


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## I-275westcoastfl (Feb 15, 2005)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Still, it's not very much, only I-275 really serves the urban area. Large portions of the St. Petersburg peninsula do not have any nearby freeways.


Exactly for a county of about 1 million people we have I-275 which goes through a small part of the county and we have a butchered section of freeway on US19. We have no East-West freeways so traveling East-West is very inconvenient.


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## mexico15 (Jan 21, 2009)

ALL THE MEXICAN CITIES!!!!!!
yes Mexico City have some motorways but just that, we have a lot of 500,000-.... cities and they dont have motorways inside their urban territory, just avenues with some bypasses.


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## mexico15 (Jan 21, 2009)

well im thinking.... i prefer big avenues with trees in the middle than huge gray, stressing, first world,boring super highways


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## tbh444 (Jul 31, 2010)

Think Norwich deserves a mention (pop. 132k, 367k metro) as it is there is not even a dual carriageway that goes there from any direction, let alone a motorway. Doesn't seem to have done it any harm economically or culturally though as far as I can tell, very pleasant place to visit.


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## Fargo Wolf (Oct 23, 2009)

My home town of Kamloops, BC, Canada. The city only has one motorway (1/5/97) that only goes halfway through town on an east-west alignment (motorway comes in from the S.W. part of town). After the exit for the Yellowhead Hwy North, the motorway ends and becomes a regular 2x2 highway, which is divided after passing through the residential area of Valleyview. (A tunnel would eliminate all traffic lights in this section)

Hwy 5 is not a motorway north of Hwy 1/97, but an undivded 2x2 highway with a posted limit of 100km/h.

Kamloops' population is about 80,000, with an area population of just over 100.000


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