# Five Most Historic Cities In The World



## MikeHunt (Nov 28, 2004)

What cities do you think are the world's most historic? My list is as follows:

1. Cairo: This city, in my view, is the cradle of civilization. I know of no city, other than Cairo, that has 4,500 year old structres!

2. Jerusalem: The most important city for the three of the most important religions in the world. Also, other than Rome, Athens, and Cairo, I know of no other city that has buildings (not fragments of walls) that are over two thousand years old.

3. Rome: Together with Cairo, it is the oldest city in Europe. Its history, together with Athens', is unparalleled in Europe.

4. Athens: See above!

5. Florence and Venice (Equally amazing): While most of Europe remained in the dark ages, the Renaissance was flourishing here.

Sadly, a lot of Asian cities did not really preserve their great historical structures. For example, although Beijing has some extraordinary sites, such as the Forbidden City, the Temple of Heaven and the Great Wall, when one walks through the city, most structures are quite new. Thus, while China has a phenomenal history, its great structures are largely gone.


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## Sitback (Nov 1, 2004)

I'd put London, Paris & Madrid in the top 5 seeing as they are the capitals of nations that had vast global empires that spread their influence around the modern world.


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## Joris Goedhart (Jan 20, 2004)

Sitback said:


> I'd put London, Paris & Madrid in the top 5 seeing as they are the capitals of nations that had vast global empires that spread their influence around the modern world.


then they can also add Lisabon and Amsterdam. Which where both more important then Paris...


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## MikeHunt (Nov 28, 2004)

But London, Paris and Madrid are new cities compared to the ones set forth above. London's oldest building, the Tower, was started after the Norman Conquest in 1066. Rome and Cairo have buildings that are at least one thousand years older than that. 

Madrid is one of the most beautiful cities in the world, but the oldest buildings that I recall seeing there were from the early 1600's. Barcelona has far greater historic structures than Madrid does.

Paris deserves honorable mention and warrants the No. 6 spot.


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

Mike: I can live with your list from a European point of view 

Istanbul would also be an option - but it always depends on the Era. Sorry to say but Athens or Cairo were not important anymore since their big days and Rome was a forgotten place for 1000 years with a few thousand people (mostly farmers) living in.


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## aranetacoliseum (Jun 8, 2005)

1. ROME

2. MANILA

3. BEIJING

4.MADRID

5.BARCELONA


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## MikeHunt (Nov 28, 2004)

But London, Paris and Madrid are new cities compared to the ones set forth above. London's oldest building, the Tower, was started after the Norman Conquest in 1066. Rome and Cairo have buildings that are at least one thousand years older than that. 

Moreover, as I have mentioned, fires and wars have destroyed most of London's pre-1660's buildings. When one walks through London, most buildings that one encounters are from the 1700's, 1800's and 1900's. People mistake them for older ones like the Royal Exchange, which was built in the mid-1800's and therefore, is no older than scores of buildings that one finds in NY, Boston, Philadelphia or Montreal. The same holds true for Parliament. It was re-built in the mid 1800's after fires, yet many people -- not knowing this -- assume that it's 500 years old. In this regard also, a friend of mine who's English insisted that the building in which the Liberty department store is located is a 16th Century structure until I showed her my London architecture guide which states that it was built in the 1920's.

Madrid is one of the most beautiful cities in the world, but the oldest buildings that I recall seeing there were from the early 1600's. Barcelona has far greater historic structures than Madrid does.

Paris deserves honorable mention and warrants the No. 6 spot.


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

Paris surely deserves a high postition - Celtic/Roman Lutetia, center of Absolutism, cradle of modern democracy, enlightment and art! Apart from a lot of architectural monuments from many centuries.


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## Desven (May 18, 2004)

Rome,Jerusalem,Carthago(Tunis),Cairo and Paris!imo!


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## unusualer (Jul 23, 2005)

mmm.....i guess this list is made for the western ppl rite?


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## Sitback (Nov 1, 2004)

If London isn't in the top 5th then I'm George Bush.

I'm sorry but it was the capital of the British Empire, the UK influence has been spread all over the modern world.

How can Paris be above London aswell in terms of historical importance?

Depends if you are talking about actual city history or historic landmarks if the later then the top 5 would be different.

So what do you mean?


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## london-b (Jul 31, 2004)

What do you mean when you say most Historic? Do you mean the oldest cities or cities with alot of old buildings or do you mean a city which has had alot of historical events happen there and mor historical influences on the world?


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## Zarkon (Dec 22, 2004)

1. ROME
2. ATHENS
3. ISTANBUL
4. CAIRO
5. KYOTO


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## Anekdote (Apr 11, 2005)

Rome
Kyoto (Asia's Rome)
Cairo
Jerusalem


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## Eldorado (Sep 10, 2003)

1 Rome
2 Athens
3 Cairo
4 Jerusalem 
5 Constantinopol (now Stanbul)


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## shibuya_suki (Apr 24, 2005)

xian ,china
kyoto,japan
rome,italy
athens,greece
beijing,china
cario,egypt


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## Anymodal (Mar 5, 2005)

what about the netherlands? rotterdam, amos, etc..

together with north italian cities they were florishing during renaissance.


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## Hebrewtext (Aug 18, 2004)

sorry people I see this mistake on ssc again and again:

Cairo is anew city. it was founded in 150 AD during the Roman time as "Babylon Fort" , well after the time of the pharo's. ofcourse today you can visit the pyramids and other sites on the *outskirts* of the city sprawl.

real ancient cities , were historical sites which influanced history and the way we live today , are at the heart of the city center:

Jerusalem-some 4000 years old
Athens -some 3000 years old
Rome-some 2500 years old
Istanbul - some 2600 years old


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## MikeHunt (Nov 28, 2004)

Sitback said:


> If London isn't in the top 5th then I'm George Bush.
> 
> I'm sorry but it was the capital of the British Empire, the UK influence has been spread all over the modern world.
> 
> ...


This earlier post should answer your question, George:

But London, Paris and Madrid are new cities compared to the ones set forth above. London's oldest building, the Tower, was started after the Norman Conquest in 1066. Rome and Cairo have buildings that are at least one thousand years older than that. 

Moreover, as I have mentioned, fires and wars have destroyed most of London's pre-1660's buildings. When one walks through London, most buildings that one encounters are from the 1700's, 1800's and 1900's. People mistake them for older ones like the Royal Exchange, which was built in the mid-1800's and therefore, is no older than scores of buildings that one finds in NY, Boston, Philadelphia or Montreal. The same holds true for Parliament. It was re-built in the mid 1800's after fires, yet many people -- not knowing this -- assume that it's 500 years old. In this regard also, a friend of mine who's English insisted that the building in which the Liberty department store is located is a 16th Century structure until I showed her my London architecture guide which states that it was built in the 1920's.

Madrid is one of the most beautiful cities in the world, but the oldest buildings that I recall seeing there were from the early 1600's. Barcelona has far greater historic structures than Madrid does.


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## Anymodal (Mar 5, 2005)

let's define what is old first.

roman empire? middle ages?


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## Insomniac (Sep 11, 2002)

Just a guess -


Rome
Istanbul
Athens
Jerusalem
Beijing (Peking)



I don't ever remember reading about Cairo in ancient history. I remember Memphis and Alexandria, but never heard anything about Cairo.


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## nabob (Jun 7, 2006)

Just five cities is impossible!

Ninive
Babylon
Persepolis
Rome
Constantinople
Jerusalem
Paris
London
New York


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## hix (Jun 11, 2006)

Nobody thinks about Mexico city?


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## Skycrap (May 31, 2006)

You all forget the most important city in the past:
The most important harbour off the past. 
Genova:


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## uA_TAGA (May 23, 2007)

İstanbul
Kyoto
Rome
Athens
Jerusalem


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## weird (Feb 24, 2006)

For me:

Jerusalem (where the majority of big religions where living.. judaism, christianism-catholiscim, and islam).

Athens (where Occident was born).

Rome (a continuation of Athens in terms of, for example, laws, gods, philoshopy, etc. In Rome, latin language was born. And french, italian, spanish, etc, come from it).

And I guess that the two others might be in Asia or Africa, so I'll choose Cairo and Beijing. But I'm not pretty sure about it because in Egypt, Alexandria and Luxor were so important too. Also, Babylon wasn't far enough and it was a very important city too.
In China is the same situation. Xi'an was a important imperial city. And, btw, I've to admit that my knowledge about ancient asian cities it's not so long. But obviously they were great civilizations, at the same level at the european ones. So I can't choose with the same easiness.
Constantinople-Istambul it's also a city to mention. But not historical at the greek ones, cause Constantinople origin was greek. So I guess that this city is an evolution of the greek one. Obviously, at the present, almost nothing can remind us that greek past.. but it's a modern city, compared to Athens..

So, arguing this, I just choose this three. The other too? I don't know exactly. But I'm sure that it's not NY, London, Paris, Berlin, or something like that.. Yes, they are historic, but not the MOST historic all around the world


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## Urbanista1 (Sep 13, 2006)

Actually the oldest continually inhabited city in the world is Damascus, Syria. Jerricho is de facto the oldest, but it isn't exactly a city now.

I would rephrase the question posed to: 'Cities of greatest historic value (old) and beauty', (where historic urban fabric and architecture is intact) in which case I would choose these 20 (in my humble opinion):

Rome: 10 points for historic fabric; 7 for beauty
Paris (although original medieval fabric mostly lost): 6;10
London: 9;7
Prague: 10; 10
Krakow: 10;9
Edinburgh: 9;9
Savannah or Charleston: 10;8
Florence: 10;10
Venice: 10; 10
Rothenburg ob de Tauber: 9;8
Amsterdam: 9;7
Walled City Beijing: 8;7
Kyoto (historic parts, mostly temples): 4;7
Poznan: 8;7
Wroclaw: 8:7
Gdansk (wonderful historic core that was not completely destroyed by war): 8:9
Jerusalem (although Israeli's desroyed the anciet Arab quarter - I was there in the early 80's and was amazed by it when intact): 7;6
Istanbul: 7; 7
Quebec City: 7;7
Athens (not that beautiful, but acropolis is amazing and Greeks are very hospitable): 6;6

Don't mean to offend anyone - just imo.


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## Saigoneseguy (Mar 6, 2005)

Jerusalem
Xi'an
Athens
Roma
Damacus


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## PresidentBjork (Apr 29, 2007)

Damascus
Rome
Xi an
Constantinople
London
Paris
New York

I don't think age should necessarily be the only measure here, since cities like Persepolis and Babylon no longer exist other than in ruins.

Cairo certainly is engorged with history, but this is due to the fact it's size has incorporated numerous ancient sights like Memphis. Old Cairo was settled in the 7th century near previous capitals of Egypt.


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## gincan (Feb 1, 2006)

It's hard to define historic city, all citys mentioned have had their share of ups and downs.

the center of europe

Athens 400 to 200 BC
Rome 200 BC to 400 AD
Istanbul 400 AD to maybe 1400 AD
Vienna 1400 AD to 1600 AD, Madrid was the capital but Vienna was the political Center
Paris 1600 AD to 1800 AD
London 1800 to today

Then there are a vast number of other historically Important cities in europe
but that list would be very long


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## skytrax (Nov 12, 2006)

Paris, Rome, Athens, Cairo, London...


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## magm (Jun 4, 2007)

To have any American city (as in the continent) and not have Mexico City is rather dumb. Mexico City is one if not the most historical city in America, it was founded in 1325 back then is was the Capital City of the Aztec Empire and it was on the most populated cities in the world, with over 200,000 inhabitants.


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

Varanasi (Benares)
Beijing (Peking)
Athens
Patna
Istanbul
Delhi
Jerusalem
Kyoto
Tanjore
Mexico City (for N.A.)
Madurai
Rome
Baghdad
Venice
Lahore
Kabul
Pyongyang
Angkor
Moscow

too many to name!

Also, why are so many Chinese, Indian cities being ignored? hno:


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## PFloyd (Mar 17, 2007)

HighSpeedTrain said:


> Mexico City for sure! representative of the civilization of the Americas...
> 
> we will have soon one of the New 7 Wonders of the World


Macchu Picchu in Peru (the Inca Civilization) would certainly qualify as one of the New 7 Wonders. As an ancient archeological site, it is far more impressive than anything else in the Americas, period.


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## Xelebes (Apr 1, 2007)

If Macchu Picchu is to be included, so should Biskupin - city of the Hyperboreans, what is now Poland.


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## 7edge (Jul 15, 2006)

magm said:


> To have any American city (as in the continent) and not have Mexico City is rather dumb. Mexico City is one if not the most historical city in America, it was founded in 1325 back then is was the Capital City of the Aztec Empire and it was on the most populated cities in the world, with over 200,000 inhabitants.


i believe that cuzco or lima could have that title.............since cuzco was founded by the incas around the 1200's.....but it had some tribe population before the time.and lima was founded by the spaniards but it has been inhabited by tribes ...way before the time..probably around the first century a.c.


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## gladisimo (Dec 11, 2006)

Technochtitlan


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## mello (Dec 21, 2004)

Damn someone dug up this old a** thread ha ha classic ssc! Well I would have to go with: 

Phoenix
Perth
Brasilia
Cape Town
Orlando

In no particular order


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## PFloyd (Mar 17, 2007)

Xelebes said:


> If Macchu Picchu is to be included, so should Biskupin - city of the Hyperboreans, what is now Poland.


Just because you have membership to this forum, doesn't mean you can just write the first stupid thing that comes to your mind. Oh, wait a minute...I guess it's common in these forums  
I invite fellow forumers to Google Image that obscure place to see what I mean.


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## high_flyer (Jan 30, 2003)

Varanasi, also known as Banaras, in India, is one of the oldest continually inhabited cities in the world, believed to be between 3-5,000 years old


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## LMCA1990 (Jun 18, 2005)

For me, it's:

1 - Cairo.
2 - Beijing.
3 - Athens.
4 - Rome.
5 - Jerusalem.


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## Cobucci (Jun 30, 2005)

Edit


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

Jerusalem
Athens
Rome
Cairo
London


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## Ohno (Jul 1, 2006)

1. Beijing
2. India 
3. Cairo
4. Rome
5. Xi'an


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## Shakespeare_nz (Apr 24, 2007)

As the city that prior to the 20th century was the centre of the world since the 18th century in terms of trade, commerce and cultural influence, London has to be up there. Today even, it truly is the world's city.


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

Very pretentious hno:


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## wynngd (Dec 11, 2006)

For me (in random order):

1. Cairo - The History goes way back 2000BC
2. Rome - The eternal City
3. Jerusalem - very Historical for Religion
4. Beijing - Great Wall and the Forbidden City
5. London - Seat of one of the oldest kingdom in the world.


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## Giorgio (Oct 9, 2004)

Athens - Oldest capital in Europe, representing one of the most influential civilisations of all time. One of worlds oldest cities. 

Rome - Carried on the Hellenic Civilisation from Greece and inturn created a glorious empire

Beijing - Reference to the Ancient Chinese who we owe alot too. 

Constantinople - Capital of the Greek Byzantine Empire in the Middle Ages...Richest city at the time

London - Historically very important. A lot is owed to London.


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## Sideshow_Bob (Jan 14, 2005)

For me it's: 
1. Stockholm
2. Copenhagen
3. Helsinki
4. Oslo
5. Reykjavik


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## Mekky II (Oct 29, 2003)

Hm, i don't want to play here, but only to give an info, Beirut is more than 5000 years old and was the major city of phoenicians, they gave alphabet to the greeks and a lot of knowledges. 

Cheers :cheers:


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## billyandmandy (Jun 6, 2006)

Rome 
London 
Venice
Beijing 
Paris 
Adranople(Edrine)
Kyoto 
Moscow 
Cairo
Istanbul 
Vienna 
Baghdad
Jerusalem 
Sofia  
Athens


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## max_cool (Jun 15, 2007)

Not that it has any sort of historical significance outside of a few indian tribes but Tucson has been continuously inhabited since 1000 BC making it 3000 years old!!!

On a more serious note, if people are going to say Machu Piccu I'd like to add Cuzco since it's not only older, it's still inhabited and it was the capital of the Inca empire.


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## Xelebes (Apr 1, 2007)

PFloyd said:


> Just because you have membership to this forum, doesn't mean you can just write the first stupid thing that comes to your mind. Oh, wait a minute...I guess it's common in these forums
> I invite fellow forumers to Google Image that obscure place to see what I mean.



Biskupin is not a fake city. Biskupin was the major stronghold of Proto-Slavs in Western Poland in Greek times. I may have gaffed on the Hyperborean part as those folks lived in the Urals, not Poland.


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Kyoto (京都)
> Nara (奈良)
> 
> 
> ...


:cheers:


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## PFloyd (Mar 17, 2007)

Xelebes said:


> Biskupin is not a fake city. Biskupin was the major stronghold of Proto-Slavs in Western Poland in Greek times. I may have gaffed on the Hyperborean part as those folks lived in the Urals, not Poland.


I didn't say it was a "fake city". I don't doubt its existence. It's your sorry attempt to compare it to one of the most striking archeological sites in the world that I find illogical.


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## elkram (Apr 1, 2006)

Baghdad
Alexandria
Damascus
Rome
Istanbul

I'd have squished Jerusalem in there if it weren't for its seldom having been a financial/trade centre to be reckoned with.


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

typo


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

It's more than 5, but I think:
Cairo
Beijing
Istanbul
Jerusalem
Petra
Bagdad


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## Kenwen (May 1, 2005)

if we talkin about europe, than it has 2 be rome n athens, they were the cradle of european civilizations, n when they were big cities all other cities were like villages in europe.

if we talk about east asia, it has 2 be xi'an in China, no matter what, because, xi'am n rome were the the capital of the 2 most powerful empires in the ancient time, n xi'an is the destination of the silk road, it influence the culture of the whole east asia, including japan n korea. 2500years ago it already has a population of 1million+, it was the capital of han dynasty, which expand its empire into korea vietnam n middle east, the nation has a slogan, which nation ever mess up with han empire, no matter how far it is we will destroy it, its power only can be match by rome of the same time

if we are talkin about africa, than cairo is the only 1

the middle east has some of the worlds oldest cities, they were capitals of the huge ancient empires, including bagdad...


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## Latoso (Mar 23, 2005)

gladisimo said:


> Technochtitlan


Mexico City was already mentioned a few hours before you posted.


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## Boeing! (Aug 16, 2006)

somataki said:


> Boeing777, I know that we are talking about cities, I know what the point is, thats why I think Athens is on the top of this list:
> 
> 1.Acropolis of *Athens *is officially the *first* among the monuments of Europe. Well, when a monument is so important to have the honour to be called first in order, I think that the city where it is located is also too important as well...
> 2.Whole *Athens *is the birthplace of the western culture. Are u really considering that any other city of mediteranean or Europe at that period (5th century B.C.)had achieved something more than Athens?Let me know these cities!
> ...


Lots of the big personalities,philosophers,scientists of that time were not active in Athens but they worked,wrote,thought in other places while others
lived there.
The wonderful Parthenon can't be considered the justification in order to demonstrate your point.Yes it's the MAIN symbol of the ancient Greece but you know that lots of monuments in other parts of the mediterranean didn't survive.Today there are testimonies,and in some place i.e.southern Italy,middle east and so on,of well preserved temples or others buildings but less known. 

You dont want to understand which is the point 

Athens, Argos, Thebes, Sparta,Corinth,Amphipolis, Methone,Potidaea, the Aegean coast of Asia Minor,Cyprus,Thrace, the Sea of Marmara,Byzantion (Istanbul),the greek colonies in western mediterranean such as Syracusae (Siracusa), Neapolis (Naples), Massalia (Μarseille) etc...to name a few,were ALL relavant,ALL had some importance in certain periods....Athens wasn't constantly a main centre...there were periods in which it had some importance and periods in which other cities were more important and so on...Today people tend to associate the ancient greece with the nowdays Greece and its capital Athens because,of course,its name is more famous now....but this doesn't mean that Athens can be totally associated to the greek civilization at least not only it.......It was a great city of that time but like many more.


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## oliver999 (Aug 4, 2006)

*西安*


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## Boeing! (Aug 16, 2006)

[Gioяgos];14066455 said:


> I know you cannot stand Athens, I know you hate all that Athens means...but you need to realise that Athens today represents one of the most influential civilisations this world has ever seen. This was a civilisation that conquered most of the then known world and formed the largest empire in ancient history.


Do i hate Athens because of the opinion i wrote about its downtown districts?..I rather think that is pretty objective what i underlined.
I usually try to be constructive and critics are always made in order not to offend!



[Gioяgos];14066455 said:


> It was the civilisation that founded Europe. And Athens takes full responsibility for that as it is the capital of Modern Greece and *was one of the most influential city *states during the ancient period.


That's the point:"it was one of the most influential"...but together with many more.


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## somataki (Aug 10, 2005)

Boeing777 I m talking with facts but u can t see the obvious:

1. I didnt tell that all the great philosophers lived in Athens. I was talking about *Socrates* and *Plato*. Find another city that hosted two most influential philosophers in Western thought, at the same period. So, the list of the scientists, philosophers, writers etc of Atehns isn't big enough for u? Here is the list: *Aeschylus, Aristophanes, Euripides, Sophocles, Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, Herodotus, Thucydides, Xenophon, Simonides and the sculptor Pheidias*. As u see, i don't even add the rest of the greek world. *JUST SOME OF THE PERSONALITIES OF THE CITY OF ATHENS! IMPRESSIVE LIST OF HISTORIC PERSONALITIES FOR A SINGLE CITY, DON'T U THINK???*

From wikipedia:_Socrates born May 20th(Greek: Σωκράτης, invariably anglicized as [ˈsɔkɹətiːz], Sǒcratēs; circa 470–399 BC) was an ancient Greek philosopher who is widely credited for laying the foundation for Western philosophy, and is held as its most influential practitioner. The most important source of information concerning Socrates is Plato. Plato's dialogues portray Socrates as a teacher who denies having disciples, as a man of reason who obeys a divine voice in his head, and a pious man who is executed for the state's own expediency. Socrates disparages the pleasures of the senses, yet is excited by beauty; *he is devoted to the education of the citizens of Athens*, yet indifferent to his own sons._http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socrates

and:_Plato (Greek: Πλάτων, Plátōn, "wide, broad-browed"[1]) (428/427 BC[a] – 348/347 BC), whose original name was Aristocles, was an ancient Greek philosopher, the second of the great trio of ancient Greeks –succeeding Socrates and preceding Aristotle– who between them laid the philosophical foundations of Western culture.[2] Plato was also a mathematician, writer of philosophical dialogues, and *founder of the Academy in Athens*, the first institution of higher learning in the western world. Plato is widely believed to have been a student of Socrates and to have been deeply influenced by his teacher's unjust death._ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato

Etc.etc...

2. Like it or not, the architecture of * Parthenon* is superior to any other ancient temple in Athens, in Greece, in Meditteranenan and wherever greek temples were built. If u think that this is only some columns who carried an entablature, its ok, I will not teach you architecture to make u understand why Parthenon is not a simple temple. U said that there are so many less known temples and monuments. Yes, there are. But noone has an important architecture as Parthenon has. The temple of Parthenon, wrote John Julius Norwich, "Enjoys the reputation of being the most perfect Doric temple ever built. Even in antiquity, its architectural refinements were legendary, especially the subtle correspondence between the curvature of the stylobate, the taper of the naos walls and the entasis of the columns." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenon
The built of Acropolis is one of the biggest, most expensive and most glorious building projects that humanity have ever seen. Read any 'introduction to architecture' book and u will find out why Parthenon is much more superior than other temples, more or less known. Then, continue with this stuff:
^ Ioanna Venieri. Acropolis of Athens. Retrieved on 2007-05-04. 
^ Hurwit, The Parthenon and the Tample of Zeus, 135
Venieri, Acropolis of Athens - History 
^ John Julius Norwich, Great Architecture of the World, 2001, p.63 
^ Connelly, Parthenon and Parthenoi, 53–80. 
^ Thomas Sakoulas, Ancient Greece.org 
^ Kenneth D. S. Lapatin, Chryselephantine Statuary in the Ancient Mediterranean World, 2002, p.63. 
^ N. Leipen, Athena Parthenos: a reconstruction, 1972. 
^ Herodotus Histories, 8.53 
^ W Dörpfeld, Der aeltere Parthenon, Ath. Mitt, XVII, 1892, p. 158-89 and W. Dörpfeld, Die Zeit des alteren Parthenon, AM 27, 1902, 379-416 
^ P Kavvadis, G Kawerau, Die Ausgabung der Acropolis vom Jahre 1885 bis zum Jahre 1890, 1906 
^ NM Tod, A Selection of Greek Historical Inscriptions II, 1948, no. 204, lines 46-51, The authenticity of this is disputed however, see also P. Siewert, Der Eid von Plataia (Munich 1972) 98-102 
^ See Minott Kerr, "The Sole Witness": The Periclean Parthenon 

U think that there are some unexcavated places in which exists magnificent temples or that there are so many monuments from the ancient years that haven't survive nowdays. *TRUE* 
U think that these sites may include monuments more important or more glorious or better than Parthenon. *WRONG!* 
Why wrong? Because there are endless volumes of ancient greek and latin writers and geographers etc etc that had described in antiquity every greek city and every monument. So, today we know the ancient topography of each ancient greek city. And there was no building or monument in antiquity in greek world that was more impressive, more respectable and more important than *Parthenon in Athens*. Read some ancient travellers, Pausanias, Strabo etc etc etc...

3. Argos, Spasta, Thebes, Neapolis, Massalia etc etc etc etc all greek cities and colonies. Which one achieved the architecture, the philosophy, the art and everything that Athens reached? U consider that Thebes or Syrracusae and the rest cities had a better architecture/sculpture/pottery/art or whatever than Athens did??? Athens was the *center of the greek world,* because all these found their better expression during Pericles age in Athens.

from wikipedia:_Pericles promoted the arts and literature; *this was a chief reason Athens holds the reputation of being the educational and cultural centre of the ancient Greek world*. He started an ambitious project that built most of the surviving structures on the Acropolis (including the Parthenon). This project beautified the city, exhibited its glory, and gave work to the people.Furthermore, Pericles fostered Athenian democracy to such an extent that critics call him a populist._http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Pericles

and also:_The Persian Wars ushered in a century of Athenian dominance of Greek affairs. *Athens was the unchallenged master of the sea, and also the leading commercial power, although Corinth remained a serious rival. *The leading statesman of this time was Pericles, who used the tribute paid by the members of the Delian League to build the Parthenon and other great monuments of classical Athens. By the mid 5th century the League had become *an Athenian Empire*, symbolized by the transfer of the League's treasury from Delos to the Parthenon in 454 BC.
The wealth of Athens attracted talented people from all over Greece, and also created a wealthy leisure class who became patrons of the arts. The *Athenian *state also sponsored learning and the arts, particularly architecture. *Athens became the centre of Greek literature, philosophy and the arts.* *Some of the greatest figures of Western cultural and intellectual history lived in Athens during this period*: the dramatists Aeschylus, Aristophanes, Euripides, and Sophocles, the philosophers Aristotle, Plato, and Socrates, the historians Herodotus, Thucydides, and Xenophon, the poet Simonides and the sculptor Pheidias. The city became, in Pericles's words, "the school of Hellas".
The other Greek states at first accepted *Athenian leadership* in the continuing war against the Persians, but after the fall of the conservative politician Cimon in 461 BC, Athens became an increasingly open imperialist power. After the Greek victory at the Battle of the Eurymedon in 466 BC, the Persians were no longer a threat, and some states, such as Naxos, tried to secede from the League, but were forced to submit. The new Athenian leaders, Pericles and Ephialtes, let relations between Athens and Sparta deteriorate, and in 458 BC war broke out. After some years of inconclusive war a 30-year peace was signed between the Delian League and the Peloponnesian League (Sparta and her allies). This coincided with the last battle between the Greeks and the Persians, a sea battle off Salamis in Cyprus, followed by the Peace of Callias (450 BC) between the Greeks and Persians._ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_greece

Now, after that, if u don't want to see the obvious historic meaning of the city of Athens and the role that had, as a single city firstly, it is not my problem.
cheers:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


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## alsen (Jan 20, 2006)

jerusalem
rome
istanbul
athens
london


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## duskdawn (May 13, 2006)

Chang'an is no doubt being top of the list.
The city was 6 times bigger than current Xi'an, which is a rebuilt, and the palace itself was 6 times bigger than the newbie forbidden city in Beijing.
Just imagine something 6 x this with 3000 yrs of history and 6 million citizens, the model of Kyoto and Nara:

Beijing Forbidden City, only 1/6 of the Daming Palace in Chang'an.


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## [email protected] (May 7, 2007)

Kyoto, Japan (Asian Rome)
Nagasaki, Japan　（Asian Amsterdam) 
Nara, Japan
Edo (Tokyo), Japan 
Kamakura, Japan
NIkko,Japan

*Population*
800: kyoto 0.6 million 
*1718:Edo (Tokyo) :1,000,000 people. The number one in the world.*
1720:Osaka : 1,000,000 people. 

*Literacy rate*
*1750: Edo (Tokyo) 70%+. The number one in the world.*
1750: Osaka 70%+

Nara, Kobe were about the same, too.

In Berlin, The literacy rate arrived at 50% in the 19th century. 
In Europe, it was overwhelming height. 
London, it was 20%. 
Paris, it was 10%. 
Moscow arrived at 20% to (1920) in the 20th century.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> Kyoto, Japan (Asian Rome)
> Nagasaki, Japan　（Asian Amsterdam)
> Nara, Japan
> Edo (Tokyo), Japan
> ...


Population figures do not match or come close to another source : 
http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa011201a.htm


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## [email protected] (May 7, 2007)

hkskyline said:


> Population figures do not match or come close to another source :
> http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa011201a.htm


The source is a real forgery.hno: I attached a source and sent an email of the protest to the manager of the site.

*Edo surpassed 1,000,000 people in 1718.*

*and the literacy rate reached 25% from 20% in a farm village and the fishing village.*
*Japan was proud of world's best high literacy rate.*


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> The source is a real forgery..hno: Edo surpassed 1,000,000 people in 1718.
> 
> *and the literacy rate reached 25% from 20% in a farm village and the fishing village.*
> *Japan was proud of world's best high literacy rate.*


Where did you get your numbers from?


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## [email protected] (May 7, 2007)

hkskyline said:


> Where did you get your numbers from?


http://www.athome.co.jp/academy/culture/cul10.html
http://www.juken-net.com/magajin/maga/35.htm 

I understood the reason of the gap with your source. 
Only a merchant includes it in the source which you introduced. He define the area of edo narrowly. 
However, Edo reached 1,200,000 people from 1,000,000 people in around 1700 when the population of EDO could include a samurai. 
The manager of the site that you introduced does not seem to know that Edo was the town of the samurai.

Breakdown of the population of the Edo. 
1.25 million
merchant： 650,000 people. 
samurai： 600,000 people.

Because Japan was world's best high literacy rate, newspapers spread. 

The circulation of the Japanese newspaper, (quality paper).
total　：　66,000,000 
Yomiuri Shimbun　： 10,200,000 (quality paper)
Asahi Shimbun　： 8,300,000 (quality paper)
*Association of 3 : 5,310,000
Mainichi Shimbun　： 4,000,000 (quality paper)
Nihon Keizai Shimbun　： 3,000,000 (quality paper)
Sankei Shimbun　： 2,050,000 (quality paper)
Others.
*Chunichi/Tokyo Shimbun : 3,500,000
Hokkaido Shimbun : 1,200,000
Nishi Nippon Shimbun : 600,000

The circulation of an American newspaper.
Total 54.63 million, 2004 (62.77 million, 1985)
National newspaper 
USA Today : 2,280,000 (popular paper)
Wall Street Journal : 1,713,413 (quality paper)
New York Times : 1,124,700 (quality paper)
Los Angeles Times 908,000 (quality paper)
Washington Post : 751,871 (quality paper)


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## PedroGabriel (Feb 5, 2007)

boeing777 said:


> Lots of the big personalities,philosophers,scientists of that time were not active in Athens but they worked,wrote,thought in other places while others
> lived there.
> The wonderful Parthenon can't be considered the justification in order to demonstrate your point.Yes it's the MAIN symbol of the ancient Greece but you know that lots of monuments in other parts of the mediterranean didn't survive.Today there are testimonies,and in some place i.e.southern Italy,middle east and so on,of well preserved temples or others buildings but less known.
> 
> ...


yups, I think it is nonsense for Egypt to be known as Egypt, that's not Egypt. That's an Arab country. Greece is much closer to Ancient Greece than Egypt. But it is not so direct line. That's why we use "Greece and Ancient Greece" "Egypt and Ancient Egypt", and even "Rome, and Ancient Rome".

People who do those types of direct associations are normally dumb or just children - there are a lot in this forum (I even read Cairo here, ). But Athens was an important place for Ancient Greek civilization. But don't forget Alexandria!


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

What does "most" in the question means anyways?

A city's with the oldest history?
A city with the most vestige of it's ancient history?
A city with some very old monuments?
A city which had a lot of influence in world history even if there are no traces of it today?
A city which, at one point in history, was very important, even if it is unimportant in size now?

The question of the thread itself is too unprecise and prone to ethnocentric flame wars.


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## PedroGabriel (Feb 5, 2007)

[children mode="on"]

1- Cairo (because there's pyramids)
2- Ching-ching in China (because it exists for 2,000 years and lived 1,000,0000 people),
3 - Shing Xang - unknown city in unknown Asian country, because we need more Asian cities in the list, it also had some million people.
4 - Inca Tapucacaruca - because we also need the same for the Americas.
5 - Face of Mars - don't be so earthcentric, please!!!
[/children mode]


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

You truly have the vibe of a stand-up comedian gabriel


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## Tubeman (Sep 12, 2002)

CongTuSaiGon said:


> Some very historic cities from the east
> 
> Pyongyang - ancient Korean capital for over 1000 years
> 
> ...


What's with resurrecting 2 year old threads which clearly break the current rules? This is the second time in a week.

Next person to do so gets brigged


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