# Western Europe and Eastern Europe



## D.J. (Apr 5, 2008)

And we don't discussing? And it seems U don't understand what I'm writing. I never said there is no difference between regions in Europe. There are, but you cannot make simplifications. U get angry and didn't even describe what You mean by term "Eastern Europe". You just said they are not communist states. So what is "Eastern Europe" 4 U?! Happy to get to know how a person from...(where are U from?) is seeing Eastern Europe? So I don't talk now. I'm listening...


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## Los Earth (Jun 23, 2011)

D.J. said:


> And we don't discussing? And it seems U don't understand what I'm writing. I never said there is no difference between regions in Europe. There are, but you cannot make simplifications. U get angry and didn't even describe what You mean by term "Eastern Europe". You just said they are not communist states. So what is "Eastern Europe" 4 U?! Happy to get to know how a person from...(where are U from?) is seeing Eastern Europe? So I don't talk now. I'm listening...


I'd happily advise you to look at my earlier posts and you will see what I mean by Eastern Europe.
But if you want me to mention it again I will: EE is famous for their unique churches, where you will not find anywhere else as common as EE.
Commieblocks are also scattered across this area but not every single country. (but WAY more than anywhere else).
And again there are old women that wear 'kasinkis', and every one mainly refers to them as babuskas because they are slavic and slavics are known for their old women, if you find them in a movie you will always see they are Russian or similar country.
I will mention this one because I hear this one alot, EE is known for their blond beautiful women that are not found anywhere else.
and the last one I will list, is EE is slavic they are all closely related by their language and 'generations'. While Western Europe has many differnt languages like English, Spanish, French, Italian and many more.(which are categorized by different language aspects.)
Okay there it is.:cheers:


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## studiowacho (Oct 1, 2008)

Sagaris said:


> So which has the dome here? Your idea of classifying a divide within europe on cultural reasoning is flawed and has no basis. For example in western Poland, our cuisine is far more like Germany's than any other country. In terms of music, Europe is very much united on that front since the baroque. In terms of culure, I don't see where you are coming from.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I completely agree with you!


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## Iluminat (Jan 16, 2008)

Los Earth said:


> I'd happily advise you to look at my earlier posts and you will see what I mean by Eastern Europe.
> But if you want me to mention it again I will: EE is famous for their unique churches, where you will not find anywhere else as common as EE.
> Commieblocks are also scattered across this area but not every single country. (but WAY more than anywhere else).
> And again there are old women that wear 'kasinkis', and every one mainly refers to them as babuskas because they are slavic and slavics are known for their old women, if you find them in a movie you will always see they are Russian or similar country.
> ...


Sounds more like a collection of stereotypes rather than serious definition


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## Los Earth (Jun 23, 2011)

Iluminat said:


> Sounds more like a collection of stereotypes rather than serious definition


Okay, name your serious definitions. :nuts:


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## NordikNerd (Feb 5, 2011)

Europe can be divided in several ways. It's west or east, mainland Europe or outside the mainland (Brittain, Scandinavia, Malta, Cyprus, Iceland) 

But Vienna is situated east of Prague still Vienna has always belonged to the West and Prague to the East. So the east is considered to be the slavic post communist countries, including non slavic Hungary, also the east has a lower standard of living due to its history, which makes it cheaper to tourists.

Also you can divide it by religion, language. Albania, Kosovo, European Turkey belong to mainland Europe but those countries have more in common with the middle east.

Russians do not consider themselves europeans at all, they want to be reffered to as russians only.


So talking about europe is something done mostly by people living outside Europe.

Europe is so diverse both geographicly and culturally so trying to unite the continent either by a union or a currency will result in a fail.


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## DecemberFlower (Nov 22, 2011)

This topic is embarrassing at all. There is no such thing as "eastern europe" or "western europe" (in cultural meaning). Every country of our continent is unique and you can't segregate them in such way.


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## NordikNerd (Feb 5, 2011)

DecemberFlower said:


> This topic is embarrassing at all. There is no such thing as "eastern europe" or "western europe" (in cultural meaning). Every country of our continent is unique and you can't segregate them in such way.


Until the 90's there was an iron curtain which definately separated the east from the west. I visited the GDR in 1987 and it was a drab depressing poor place, still one of the best economies of the Warsaw Pact.

The east was poorer and still is, but things change. Greece belongs to the wealthy west, now it's bancrupt. Italy is wealthy in the north, poor in the south. 

In the future I think we are going to see a new barrier between rich and poor, it's going to be the north vs south.

In the EU, Germany is considered to be the locomotive of the whole union. The generator of wealth, while the lazy coffeedrinking greeks are the heavy load.


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## Sagaris (Nov 28, 2006)

Los Earth said:


> I'd happily advise you to look at my earlier posts and you will see what I mean by Eastern Europe.
> But if you want me to mention it again I will: EE is famous for their unique churches, where you will not find anywhere else as common as EE.


We don't have any of those types of churches you described earlier in Western Poland, or in Czech, Slovakia, Hungary either. I imagine there won't be many of those in Slovenia, Croatia or Lithuania either. Those are orthodox churches you described, and you won't find those in Roman Catholic countries.


Los Earth said:


> Commieblocks are also scattered across this area but not every single country. (but WAY more than anywhere else).


 I'll give you this one, but it's tied in with the iron curtain. Due to socialist economic policy, many of these suburban cold war relics were constructed, but in recent times, they are being replaced by modern architecture. Enjoy them while they last.


Los Earth said:


> And again there are old women that wear 'kasinkis', and every one mainly refers to them as babuskas because they are slavic and slavics are known for their old women, if you find them in a movie you will always see they are Russian or similar country.


I'm Polish and I've never heard of the term "Kasinki" and we don't refer to old ladies as "Babushkas". There is nothing special about our old ladies.


Los Earth said:


> I will mention this one because I hear this one alot, EE is known for their blond beautiful women that are not found anywhere else.


 Good luck finding blond women in Bosnia, Serbia, Albania and Bulgaria. I'm sure you'd have better luck in Germany or Scandinavia. 


Los Earth said:


> and the last one I will list, is EE is slavic they are all closely related by their language and 'generations'. While Western Europe has many differnt languages like English, Spanish, French, Italian and many more.(which are categorized by different language aspects.)
> Okay there it is.:cheers:


Yes, Slavic languages tend to concentrate in the eastern part of Europe, but you'll find a regionality with any language group in Europe. West Germanic languages are spoken in the north-west of Europe, Celtic languages in the far west of Europe. Scandinavian (north germanic) languages are spoken in the north and Romance languages tend to be spoken in the south. 

But if you are categorizing EE as Slavic Europe, you must exclude Romania, Moldova, Hungary, Albania and the Baltics. Slavic Europe is an acceptable region within Europe, but the other regions would then have to be Romantic Europe, Germanic Europe, Uralic Europe etc. not a unified "Western Europe".


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## Los Earth (Jun 23, 2011)

Sagaris said:


> We don't have any of those types of churches you described earlier in Western Poland, or in Czech, Slovakia, Hungary either. I imagine there won't be many of those in Slovenia, Croatia or Lithuania either. Those are orthodox churches you described, and you won't find those in Roman Catholic countries.
> I'll give you this one, but it's tied in with the iron curtain. Due to socialist economic policy, many of these suburban cold war relics were constructed, but in recent times, they are being replaced by modern architecture. Enjoy them while they last.
> I'm Polish and I've never heard of the term "Kasinki" and we don't refer to old ladies as "Babushkas". There is nothing special about our old ladies.
> Good luck finding blond women in Bosnia, Serbia, Albania and Bulgaria. I'm sure you'd have better luck in Germany or Scandinavia.
> ...


Sagaris why are you so stuck up on this thread??
and by the way I wasn't posting this to you, and if you hate this thread so much why do you follow and read every post waiting for your chance to
to express your ancient opinion that we are all so tired of hearing. :blahblah:
and considering you only post .09 posts a day this is your most beloved thing to follow, that you can't let go.


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## Aan (Nov 5, 2007)

NordikNerd said:


> But Vienna is situated east of Prague still Vienna has always belonged to the West and Prague to the East. So the east is considered to be the slavic post communist countries, including non slavic Hungary, also the east has a lower standard of living due to its history, which makes it cheaper to tourists.


LOL this is really great definition - eastern europe which is not actually eastern, eastern slavic europe which is not actually slavic (you forgot Estonia, Lithuania and other non slavic countries/languages) and we could continue further, there is not really anymore anything like western vs eastern europe if you don't want to use it really only as geographical terms when Austria and Czech republic must be part of same Europe (western or eastern, doesn't matter)

only difference was Soviet union influence and occupation of other countries (I know general knowledge (about history) in west is quite bad, but one would think they teach those students at least about 1968 all over Europe), while some people still think about Europe as if it would be divided by iron curtain and countries as Czechia, Slovakia, Poland or Slovenia would be under influence of soviets/russians, although truth is there is not possible separation of countries in Europe to west or east anymore, because of diversity, look at Eurozone, look at living standard how diverse it is even in so called western Europe where belong countries as Spain, Greece or Portugal


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## Mesch (Mar 26, 2008)

D.J. said:


> ^^So You know the city from the second photo and don't from the first?


No, but I'm not interested in the second pic. :tongue2:


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## D.J. (Apr 5, 2008)

^^ First is Paris. Second is Poznan (Poland). 

Anyway, I give up. I don't really damn how non-europeans see Europe. It's more important how we, Europeans, see it. And we shouldn't let others to define us. I think that as long as we remember that Europe is an open project we will somehow develop with respect for other cultures and last in diversity.
We don't need a definition of Europe because they always divide. 

And U Los Earth care more about your TV convictions then about real Europe. You prefer your stereotypes then reality and U are not eager to get to know anything truly about Europe. So why should I lose my time on this wonderfully stupid thread of yours? Cheers. 

P.S. Oh yes. I really hate this thread.:nuts:


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## Casual user (Nov 23, 2011)

Beer Wine Vodka division of Europe, the only one that really matters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_belts_of_Europe


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## Iluminat (Jan 16, 2008)

Los Earth said:


> Okay, name your serious definitions. :nuts:


Well it's extremely hard to divide Europe especially if we want to divide it by cultural lines because they are never clear but I would concentrate more on things like politics and culture a s a whole rather than babushkas or some other stereotypical thing you mentioned because it's rather silly, someone might thought you base your calssification on a bunch of movies.
Anyway this stereotypes are true to some extent eg. there are onion domes and buildings with rather eccentric choice of colors by western standards and perhaps even some village babushkas (although they will probably disappear in the next 20 years or so) mostly in 3 countries: Russia, Ukraine and Belarus in fact what you described as "Eastern Europe" is basically the stereotypical (Hollywood?) view of Russia but it seems that you want to use this stereotypes to describe whole former Eastern Block/former communist contries in Europe which is rather weird for people who actually live in this countries, some might laugh some might feel offended and call you names so if you want to avoid unpleasant confrontations I would advice you to educate on this matter.


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## dia (Mar 12, 2007)

Los Earth said:


> I'd happily advise you to look at my earlier posts and you will see what I mean by Eastern Europe.
> But if you want me to mention it again I will: EE is famous for their unique churches, where you will not find anywhere else as common as EE.
> Commieblocks are also scattered across this area but not every single country. (but WAY more than anywhere else).
> And again there are old women that wear 'kasinkis', and every one mainly refers to them as babuskas because they are slavic and slavics are known for their old women, if you find them in a movie you will always see they are Russian or similar country.
> ...


I saw this by accident but couldn't resist to answer. :lol: I will skip the churches and commyblocks part, although I can show you that it is debatable. I have no idea what "kasinkis" means and I am Eastern European. But I don't know where you got the idea Slavs are known for their old women, or the blondes. As someone mentioned, try to find many blondes in Greece, Bulgaria, Albania, Serbia and Romania. At most, some dirty-blondes here and there. And still, those countries are in the Eastern part of Europe. Blondes are a generally northern feature, not eastern or western.

The best part though is the one about languages. Slavic languages are part of a linguistic group, same as Latin languages (French, Italian, Spanish... ) and Germanic (German, Dutch, English, the Scandinavian languages and some others). So Russian and Serbian are different languages exactly as French and Italian. If you follow your logic, in WE there would be only 2 or 3 languages. Germanic and Latin and eventually Finnish, if you count them in WE. While EE would have Slavic, Greek, Albanian, Latin (Romania speaks a Latin language but is EE), Hungarian and Estonian, the Baltic languages. So what does it makes with the argument of the Slavic language= EE?  

I am well aware of the stereotypes about EE but this is just TOO much. :lol:

Eastern Europe is a subjective division but none is equal to what you seem to think. If you count the Orthodox countries as EE, you still have Romanians and Greeks on one side and the Slavic Catholic countries on the other, what do you do with them? If you count the ex-communist countries, you still have the Baltics, Romania, Albania and Hungary not being part of the babushkas and Slav language(s).


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## gotin (Nov 30, 2011)

Sagaris said:


>


This is beautiful building!!


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## Los Earth (Jun 23, 2011)

dia said:


> I saw this by accident but couldn't resist to answer. :lol: I will skip the churches and commyblocks part, although I can show you that it is debatable. I have no idea what "kasinkis" means and I am Eastern European. But I don't know where you got the idea Slavs are known for their old women, or the blondes. As someone mentioned, try to find many blondes in Greece, Bulgaria, Albania, Serbia and Romania. At most, some dirty-blondes here and there. And still, those countries are in the Eastern part of Europe. Blondes are a generally northern feature, not eastern or western.
> 
> The best part though is the one about languages. Slavic languages are part of a linguistic group, same as Latin languages (French, Italian, Spanish... ) and Germanic (German, Dutch, English, the Scandinavian languages and some others). So Russian and Serbian are different languages exactly as French and Italian. If you follow your logic, in WE there would be only 2 or 3 languages. Germanic and Latin and eventually Finnish, if you count them in WE. While EE would have Slavic, Greek, Albanian, Latin (Romania speaks a Latin language but is EE), Hungarian and Estonian, the Baltic languages. So what does it makes with the argument of the Slavic language= EE?
> 
> ...











Romanian language belongs to Romance languages so it is not Slavic, EVEN though they have far more slavics than a western country, so we can fit it in the category.  They have things in common which is population shrinkage which is not a good thing hno:, and domed cathedrals...
Exactly the differences morph into each other not start appearing.
lets discuss and not carry on this argument which I already said that we don't need. Shall we?


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## Los Earth (Jun 23, 2011)

gotin said:


> This is beautiful building!!


Indeed Paris is so beautiful, for it's old architecture. Night photos look fabulous!, so is their La Defense. :yes:


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## Fallout (Sep 11, 2002)

Sometimes image can tell 100 words. you got there languages map already, so now look at the religions map. Those "domed churches" that you speak about are characteristic for othodox countries. Division between orthodox and catholic/protestant zones is indeed probably the important from cultural viewpoint. As you can see, it doesn't overlap exactly with slavic areas.










You mentioned also blonde women. Well, here is hair colour in Europe map.As you can see its rather north-south thing:










You can also of course divide the continent arbitrarily into two parts of about equal size just for comparison purposes, like this:










This is purely arbitrary division based on geography but it divides Europe into two parts with about even population.


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## Los Earth (Jun 23, 2011)

^^ Too all of you who say there is no difference, look at this video
of Europe. Tourists, no?


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## Darryl (Jan 14, 2007)

My answer to the original question generally is that I prefer to visit Western Europe for the simple fact that I have learned that when travelling to poorer places I dislike the way I am treated because I feel like a walking dollar bill. To explain further I mean that I feel that when people are nice to me I do not feel it is genuine but rather because they want some sort of payment. I feel that many people are out to scam me.

For instance, I have been to Prague twice. While Prague is beautiful, the cab drivers constantly try to scam and overcharge you. I experienced this multiple times. People come up to you in the train station and say nice things like "Do you need help finding your train?" when they are not actually offering out of the goodness of their heart, they mean to receive payment when they've completed the act of "goodwill". You go to a club there and an attractive person smiles at you or starts to engage you in conversation and at first you think "this is so nice" only to find they are a prostitute looking, again, for payment. This sort of thing happened repeatedly and really grates at my nerves. I'd like to just be treated nicely as I would to them without anything expected in return. 

I got this same feeling in Russia. They expect you to pay them to be friendly to you. LOL Actually, in Russia there is no such thing as friendliness. They just want payment if they are to help you in any way. You won't find a smile anywhere in the country.

When I am in Germany for instance, I don't have this same feeling at all. If someone offers to help you find a train it is simply because they want to help. If they say hello to you at a bar it is because they are interested in meeting you or talking to you. Thats it.


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## Laurentzius (Sep 10, 2010)

^^

I don't mean to imply your experiences are inaccurate or irrelevant, but I still think it's a gross exaggeration and quite stereotyping. The Eastern Europeans or more exactly the Slavs might not be as open and friendly or extrovert if you wish as the Southern Europeans for example, but that doesn't make them some sad suicidal people who turn human only when they want to scam somebody. It's just the way they are, and once you get to know them you'll see they are not really different. And to give the Germans as an opposite example is quite hilarious to be honest.

Actually I prefer them to behave this way, at least they are true to themselves. I find it quite annoying when people in the US and some Western European countries give you those big ass smiles automatically every time you look at them although you are a perfect stranger. You could tell those smiles are fake and empty and those people couldn't care less if you dropped dead at their feet. 

I'm well aware I'm stereotyping as well, but I'm only trying to show you how this looks from a different point of view. We shouldn't judge people just because their behaviour doesn't fit our own cultural paradigm.

As for people trying to take advantage of you when travelling, try not to stand out in the crowd. People want to make money from tourists in such hot spots like Prague everywhere in the world. Besides you should be suspicious of any hot girl hitting on you, unless you're quite a looker. Anyway, there are lots of good and helpful people around who wouldn't take any money for their help, at least in my country/this part of E Europe. The problem is that quite often tourists shun them away being afraid they want to scam them or kidnap them and sell their organs Hostel style. :lol:


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## Darryl (Jan 14, 2007)

It's not stereotyping, it's a simple fact. The facts are that these situations happened to me on multiple occasions while spending 2 or 3 days in Prague on two different occasions. That is my actual experience.

In comparison, I have been to Germany 12 or 13 times for much longer periods (I actually lived in Germany for 6 months during college) and never once did something like that occur.

I think I just prefer visiting a place where I am on more "equal footing" with the residents there. I am not at all rich, or flashy. I'm just solidly middle-class. I feel I get to see people's true selves when they are not trying to scam me or get some sort of payment from me. My visit and my experience is more pleasant and fulfilling in this environment (where tourists or foreigners are not preyed upon).


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## Laurentzius (Sep 10, 2010)

I guess you're right in a way, foreign tourists tend to be preyed upon in poorer countries but I've never imagined it's so bad that makes some people avoid them in future. I wonder what places the likes of Bill Gates visit.

Either way, I find it hard to believe that while in Prague you've never met nice people not interested in scamming you or that in Germany nice people have been crowding to meet you.


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## Name user 1 (Feb 13, 2011)

I lived in Prague too and funny thinks was that especially American expected that people will show interest in them because they are from USA. They were loud at public places... or public transport and forget to realise that they are as quest here... 

Prague is one of most visited place on Earth and visitors should realise where are money there is crime...


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

I think it has some true core that tourists have to be more cautious of being overcharged or scammed in the new member states than the old ones on average. Even though there is also the general rule that tourist hot spots use to be even more risky in that regards, no matter where. 

I can understand it to some extend but I'd hope that it gets less as the new member states get wealthier. Scamming tourists also damages your foreign reputation a lot as well, and tourist sectors also in the new member states will start realizing at some point that its a big long term damage for some small short term profit it causes.

That said, I have not experienced any scamming on me so far, more than one could expect in Vienna as well (overpriced food in touristy restaurants for less than average quality). I have heard various stories from other people I know however.


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## Los Earth (Jun 23, 2011)

Europe does have a difference of borders, No? I mean poor countries is where scammers are (?) you can't argue with that


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## MachoToughGuy (May 1, 2012)

Laurentzius said:


> ^^
> 
> Actually I prefer them to behave this way, at least they are true to themselves. I find it quite annoying when people in the US and some Western European countries give you those big ass smiles automatically every time you look at them although you are a perfect stranger. You could tell those smiles are fake and empty and those people couldn't care less if you dropped dead at their feet.


I have found Europeans in most countries to be cold, impolite and far less falsely polite than Americans. There's no difference between East and West, both are as cold as each other on average.

Which Western European countries would you say are falsely polite like the US?


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## Laurentzius (Sep 10, 2010)

Los Earth said:


> Europe does have a difference of borders, No? I mean poor countries is where scammers are (?) you can't argue with that


It depends on the magnitude of the scams. The biggest scammers in Europe work in the City of London and other such banking/financial centers. 



MachoToughGuy said:


> Which Western European countries would you say are falsely polite like the US?


I guess the UK and the Nordic countries, but admittedly it happens more in the service sector than on the streets.


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## Linguine (Aug 10, 2009)

nice discussion...


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