# ULEB Euroleague Arenas



## Kuvvaci (Jan 1, 2005)

we can't see the pic. please send again...


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## gincan (Feb 1, 2006)

There are plans to replace the FC Barcelona indoor arena with a new one, I think I've read 14 or 15.000 but it depends on a number of things. I don't see it happen any time soon.

btw, I've read that total revenue in Euro League for the 2006/2007 season was around 3 billion euros. If the teams can keep on expanding their
income we will soon see NBA players on a much more common basis than now. Even the best NBA players have stated that they will move to europe if they are offered more money than home. If for example the owner of CSKA or Maccabi offer Kobe Bryant enough, he has himself stated that he will move to europe.


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## likasz (Sep 4, 2008)

Is it true that from 2010 minimal capacity for Eurolegue's arena 
must be 10k?


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## NickRivers (Sep 12, 2007)

Kuvvaci said:


> we can't see the pic. please send again...


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

why don't they built a new arena with restaurant, suites etc


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## anaiptol (Oct 6, 2007)

www.sercan.de said:


> why don't they built a new arena with restaurant, suites etc


I envy them for not doing that!


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

why?
its a great income for the club and makes it a really arena IMO


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## anaiptol (Oct 6, 2007)

I guess I'm just not the "consumer" kind of guy. Expanding old halls would be awesome, just most of them can't be expanded.


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

But you are a fan and as a fan you want to have a succesfull club


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## anaiptol (Oct 6, 2007)

Well Zalgiris doesn't own the arena it plays in, so...


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## anaiptol (Oct 6, 2007)

Kaunas arena. Images and videos. It's officialy U/C :cheers:
http://www.kaunoarena.info/index.php/projektas/vizualizacijos


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## Aiwa (May 8, 2005)

^^^ BTW 15 000 seats


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## Delmat (May 2, 2007)

Eraser said:


> KK Split (former POP84 or Jugoplastika) - Spaladium Arena (12,500)


Just two teams in European club basketball history ever won three consecutive titles, and only one did so during the Final Four era - Split.
http://www.euroleague.net/item/20875

After the huge crisis the old champion is getting back, slowely but certainly...
Last year kicked favourised Cibona in semifinals of domestic championship but lost against Zadar 2-3 in the finals.

Spaladium Arena (13 000 for basketball)


















thanks to Strcbrc


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

hello everybody. Hello dadu24. I am from Lithuania and is very interested in arena, so if you can let your Skype, and then we can talk.


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

Sorry for the mistakes, because I am using a translation program


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## Aiwa (May 8, 2005)

if you are interested in Kaunas Arena or any other Lithuanian arena, go to http://www.miestai.net/forumas/


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## Aiwa (May 8, 2005)

I think CSKA could play in 14000 seats "Khodynka Arena"


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## lpioe (May 6, 2006)

gincan said:


> There are plans to replace the FC Barcelona indoor arena with a new one, I think I've read 14 or 15.000 but it depends on a number of things. I don't see it happen any time soon.


According to this news it will be 12.000.

But I dont see it happen soon either...


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## Delmat (May 2, 2007)

Hmmm *FC* Barcelona?
Maybe BC?


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## CrazySerb (Aug 22, 2007)

They don't have the same system we do


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

as far as i know in some years the clubs have to play in 10,000+ arenas. and as you can see many are building new ones or plan to expand the old ones.
But what about Barcelona?
Current one is just 8,250


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## SpicyMcHaggis (Oct 7, 2008)

Not all clubs will have to use 10k arenas. Only those with A licence.


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Oh thats good for Galatasaray , cause our new arena plan is 6,000


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Tried to make a list.

* 1.	KK Partizan	|	Belgrade Arena	|	22.680	| *
2.	(Cologne)	|	Lanxess Arena	|	19.403	| 
* 3.	KAE Panathinaikos	|	Olympic Indoor Hall	|	18.900	| *
4.	(London)	|	The O2 arena	|	18.689	| 
* 5.	CB Bilbao	|	Bizkaia Arena	|	18.640	| *
6.	(Bern)	|	PostFinance-Arena	|	18.200	| 
7.	(Manchester)	|	MEN Arena	|	17.839	| 
8.	(Prague)	|	o2 Arena / Sazka Arena	|	17.360	| 
9.	(Barcelona)	|	Palau Sant Jordi |	17.000	| 
* 10.	KK Cibona	|	Arena Zagreb	|	16.500	| *
11.	(Bucharest)	|	Bucharest Arena	|	16.000	|	Proposed	
12.	(Paris)	|	Palais omnisport	|	15.524	| 
13.	(Istanbul)	|	Sinan Erdem Dome	|	15.500	| 
* 14.	ALBA Berlin	|	O2 World	|	15.500	| *
15.	(Kraków)	|	Kraków Arena	|	15.328	|	Proposed	
* 16.	Real Madrid CF	|	Palacio Vistalegre	|	15.000	|	(New 16.000 proposed)	*
17.	(Bordeaux)	|	New Arena	|	15.000	|	Proposed	
18.	(Paris )	|	New Arena	|	15.000	|	Proposed	
19.	(Madrid)	|	Palacio de Deportes	|	15.000	| 
20.	(Minsk)	|	Minsk Arena	|	15.000	| 
* 21.	Virtus Bologna	|	Park of the stars	|	15.000	|	Proposed	*
* 22.	BC Žalgiris	|	Kaunas Arena	|	14.502	|	u/c	*
* 23.	KAE Panionios	|	Helliniko Arena	|	14.500	| *
* 24.	KAE AEK	|	Helliniko Arena	|	14.500	| *
* 25.	ASVEL	|	New Arena	|	14.400	|	Proposed	*
* 26.	PBC CSKA Moskva	|	Megasport Arena	|	14.126	| *
27.	(Mannheim)	|	SAP Arena	|	13.600	| 
28.	(Düsseldorf)	|	ISS Dome	|	13.400	| 
29.	(Hamburg)	|	Color Line Arena	|	12.822	| 
* 30.	Club Joventut Badalona	|	Pavelló Olímpic	|	12.500	| *
* 31.	Fenerbahçe SK	|	Ülker Area	|	12.500	|	u/c	*
* 32.	KK Union Olimpija	|	Stožice Arena	|	12.480	|	u/c	*
* 33.	Maccabi Tel Aviv BC	|	Nokia Arena	|	11.700	| *
* 34.	Asseco Prokom	|	Gdansk Arena	|	11.409	|	u/c	*
* 35.	KAE Olympiacos	|	Erinis Kai Filias Arean	|	11.390	|	(New 12.000 proposed)	*
* 36.	Olimpia Milano	|	Mediolanum Forum	|	11.200	| *
* 37.	KK Split	|	Spaladium Arena	|	10.931	| *
38.	(Hannover)	|	Tui Arena	|	10.767	| 
* 39.	Efes Pilsen SK	|	Abdi Ipekçi Arena	|	10.553	| *
* 40.	P Virtus Roma	|	PalaLottomatica	|	10.500	| *
* 41.	CB Málaga	|	Jose M.M Carpena Arena	|	10.500	|	(-> 17.000)	*
* 42.	Türk Telekom SK	|	Ankara Arena	|	10.399	| *
43.	(Kiel)	|	Sparkassen-Arena	|	10.250	| 
44.	(Bologna)	|	Palamalaguti	|	10.200	| 
45.	(Constanta)	|	Constanta Arena	|	10.000	|	proposed	
46.	(Oberhausen)	|	König-Pilsener-Arena	|	10.000	| 
* 47.	Saski Baskonia	|	Fernando Buesa Arena	|	9.717	|	(-> 15.000)	*
* 48.	FC Barcelona	|	Blaugrana	|	8.250	|	(New 12.000 proposed)	*


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## ReiAyanami (May 14, 2008)

Where do you get the numbers?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_and_Friendship_Stadium
Hellenic basketball federation:
http://esake.gr/team/olympiakos


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## SpicyMcHaggis (Oct 7, 2008)

I doubt that KK Split will play in Europe anytime soon again. They got relegated from NLB league last year and now they are in lower part of the table in 1st division. 

Shame for such an giant... 

On other hand NLB got 2 additional places in Euroleague for next season (making in 5 in total) so we might see Zadar getting in finally. Their club, fans and arena deserve top level competition, even tho the team is mediocre


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

ReiAyanami said:


> Where do you get the numbers?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_and_Friendship_Stadium
> Hellenic basketball federation:
> http://esake.gr/team/olympiakos


stadia.gr


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## John Lajoie (Apr 12, 2010)

Cska's GM said that it is very expensive to pay on Khodynka arena. So I think they won't play there((


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## Aiwa (May 8, 2005)

Man, CSKA is a rich club I think they are able to afford Khodynka for EL games...


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## likasz (Sep 4, 2008)

^^They've problem to fill their own hall (last match against UNICS - only 1000 people, source:http://www.basket.ru/index.php?dn=game&id=73274&ml=1) so it's not a good idea.Maybe for a few years
?


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## Aiwa (May 8, 2005)

No, I don't say that they have to move to Khodynka for every game. But in Euroleague, especialy if EL rules says, that A license teams have to play in arenas that have more than 10000 seats, CSKA could afford Khodynka, and it can't be too expensive for a club like CSKA


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## John Lajoie (Apr 12, 2010)

Aiwa said:


> Man, CSKA is a rich club I think they are able to afford Khodynka for EL games...


Now Cska has less money then few years ago. So they aren't very rich club.


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## Helem (Sep 19, 2008)

likasz said:


> ^^They've problem to fill their own hall (last match against UNICS - only 1000 people, source:http://www.basket.ru/index.php?dn=game&id=73274&ml=1) so it's not a good idea.Maybe for a few years
> ?


The new Arena attendance above.

2008 CSKA - TAU / Khodynka

14 000 people.


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## Helem (Sep 19, 2008)

John Lajoie said:


> Now Cska has less money then few years ago. So they aren't very rich club.



In the top three richest basketball clubs in Europe. Previously was the richest.

For CSKA will soon build a new arena for 12 000 - 15 000, before that will play Khodynka.


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## SpicyMcHaggis (Oct 7, 2008)

John Lajoie said:


> Now Cska has less money then few years ago. So they aren't very rich club.


Well.. if they get A type of licence.. which they will, they won't have much choice but to use the bigger arena.


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## lindenthaler (Apr 11, 2003)

Beginning of game Partizan - Maccabi 1.4.2010 in Belgrade Arena 
At: 21 367


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## SpicyMcHaggis (Oct 7, 2008)

Nice avatar  Dule is awesome..


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## lindenthaler (Apr 11, 2003)

@SMH haha, thanks


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## SpicyMcHaggis (Oct 7, 2008)

@Sercan...

I've read that "Efes Pilsen" won't be able to exist anymore since by some new law sport clubs will be banned from using names which are based on alcoholic drinks. Since Efes Pilsen brewery also owns the club they mentioned that they will probably fuse Efes Pilsen and Besiktas since they have no interest running the club under some other name.

Where would they play in that case? In Abdi İpekçi Arena or BJK Akatlar Arena?


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## penzias (Jan 4, 2009)

www.sercan.de said:


> * 16.	Real Madrid CF	|	Palacio Vistalegre	|	15.000	|	(New 16.000 proposed)	*


Real Madrid will play next season in "la caja mágica", the venue that hosts the Tennis Masters tournament.
capacity - 12500 










BTW on your list is missing the "pabellón Prínipe Felipe" of Zaragoza, capacity 11000 aprox, where the Cai Zaragoza plays, and the "Donostia Arena" in san sebastian, home of the Lagun Aro Guipuzcoa Basket.
Doesn't seem like any of these teams will play Euroleague anytime soon though.


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## Greece (Jul 10, 2010)

Average Attendances:
1. Fenerbahce Ulker (TUR)-12,875
2. Union Olimpija Ljubljana (SLO)-12,120
3. Maccabi Electra Tel Aviv (ISR)-11,300
4. Efes Pilsen Istanbul (TUR)-9,790
5. Caja Liboral (ESP)-9,490
6. Unicaja Malaga (ESP)-8,660
7. Panathinaikos (GRE)-8,200
8. Lietuvos Rytas (LTU)-7,630
9. Partizan Belgrade (SRB)-7,565
10. Power Electronics Valencia (ESP)-7,380
11. Brose Baskets (GER)-6,800
12. Olympiakos (GRE)-6,000
13. Real Madrid (ESP)-5,210
14. Zalgiris Kaunas (LTU)-4,962
15. Cholet Basket (FRA)-4,840
16. Spirou Basket (BEL)-4,760
17. Montespaschi Siena (ITA)-4,641
18. Asseco Prokom Gdynia (POL)-4,346
19. CSKA Moscow (RUS)-4,100
20. Regal FC Barcelona (ESP)-4,089
21. Virtus Roma (ITA)-3,590
22. KK Cibona Zagreb (CRO)-3,500
23. Armani Jeans Milano (ITA)-3,240
24. Khimki Moscow (RUS)-3,180


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## AlekseyVT (Dec 21, 2009)

Greece said:


> Average Attendances:
> 1. Fenerbahce Ulker (TUR)-12,875
> 2. Union Olimpija Ljubljana (SLO)-12,120
> 3. Maccabi Electra Tel Aviv (ISR)-11,300
> ...


^^^^
24. Khimki is a town outside the Moscow borders, in the so-called Moscow Region.


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## Greece (Jul 10, 2010)

It says "Khimki Moscow" on wikipedia. I think that is the official name of the team...


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## AlekseyVT (Dec 21, 2009)

Greece said:


> It says "Khimki Moscow" on wikipedia. I think that is the official name of the team...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Khimki

BC Khimki, short for Basketball Club *Khimki Moscow Region* (in Russian: баскетбольный клуб Химки Моско́вской о́бласти), also known as Khimki BC, or *Khimki Moscow Region*, is a Russian professional basketball team that is based in *Khimki, Moscow Oblast Region,* Russia. The club's first team participates in the VTB United League, the PBL, and also the Euroleague.

Moscow itself and Moscow Region outside the capital's borders are two separate federal subjects of the Russian Federation.


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## Aiwa (May 8, 2005)

Greece said:


> Average Attendances:
> 1. Fenerbahce Ulker (TUR)-12,875
> 2. Union Olimpija Ljubljana (SLO)-12,120
> 3. Maccabi Electra Tel Aviv (ISR)-11,300
> ...


It would be worth to write sizes of the arenas, because in percentage attendances would be way different 
For example: Panathinaikos Athens has an attendance average of 8200. But arena is able to hold 18000 spectators. While let's take my home town club Zalgiris Kaunas, with average of 4962 viewers and only 5000 seats arena  So Zalgiris games is olways 99% full and Panathhinaikos just 45%


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

in % to Arena Capacity


Brose Baskets	100.00%
Zalgiris Kaunas	99.24%
Maccabi Tel Aviv	98.26%
Partizan Begrade	96.99%
Caja Laboral Baskonia	95.86%
Cholet Basket	94.90%
Union Olimpija Ljubljana	92.77%
Asseco Prokom Gnydia	86.92%
Power Electronics Valencia	82.92%
Fenerbahce Ulker SK	80.47%
Unicaja Malaga	78.73%
CSKA Moscow	74.55%
Montepaschi Siena	71.45%
Lietuvos Rytas Vilnius	69.36%
Spirou Charleroi	68.00%
Cibona Zagreb	64.81%
Efes Pilsen SK	61.19%
Khimki Moscow	60.46%
Olympiacos Piraeus	50.00%
Regal FC Barcelona	49.55%
Panathinaikos Athens	44.32%
Real Madrid	41.88%
Virtus Roma	32.06%
Armani Jeans Milano	27.00%


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## makimax (Jan 6, 2008)

Partizan Belgrade for next eurolegue stage move again from Pionir hall (7 000) to Belgrade arena (22 000).


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

www.sercan.de said:


> in % to Arena Capacity
> 
> 
> Brose Baskets	100.00%
> ...


it's not correct. Brose Baskets arena capacity is not 6800, but 6900, no in percent will be just 99. I have all excel table.


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Honestly i just used this website 
http://www.in-the-game.org/?page_id=9923


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## Capital78 (Jan 23, 2008)

It's more interesting if you take the average regarding the popullation.

Urban area of Istanbul has 12 million people, Athens 3 million, Tel Aviv more than 1 million,...
Urban area of Ljubljana only 300.000 people!!! So, in this case Ljubljana is absolute winner!!!


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

But on the other hand Istanbul has got 4 big teams and Athens 3


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## JYDA (Jul 14, 2008)

Aiwa said:


> It would be worth to write sizes of the arenas, because in percentage attendances would be way different
> For example: Panathinaikos Athens has an attendance average of 8200. But arena is able to hold 18000 spectators. While let's take my home town club Zalgiris Kaunas, with average of 4962 viewers and only 5000 seats arena  So Zalgiris games is olways 99% full and Panathhinaikos just 45%


Hopefully Zalgiris will get 99% in the new arena as well


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## Greece (Jul 10, 2010)

Capital78 said:


> It's more interesting if you take the average regarding the popullation.
> 
> Urban area of Istanbul has 12 million people, Athens 3 million, Tel Aviv more than 1 million,...
> Urban area of Ljubljana only 300.000 people!!! So, in this case Ljubljana is absolute winner!!!


But they only have one Euroleague team and they have such high attendance because they are playing in a brand new arena...

And I'm not sure these figures are very accurate because there is no way that there were only 6,000 for Olympiakos vs. Virtus Roma on Wednesday. It looked more like 8-10,000. I think some of these figures are just estimates, because these teams obviously don't get exactly 5,000 or exactly 10,000 fans :lol:

And I think Olimpija Ljubljana cheats with attendance because for some games they have over 13,000 when their arena seats only 12,800hno:


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## Aiwa (May 8, 2005)

JYDA, I really hope so. But 80-90% would be pleasant too 
And If we would take Olimpija Ljubljana for example, it is very possible for us to do.


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## drowningman666 (Nov 5, 2007)

oh i had no idea that there's such a big attendance on Asseco Prokom games


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## pop1982 (Jul 3, 2009)

www.sercan.de said:


> But on the other hand Istanbul has got 4 big teams and Athens 3


...and Istanbul teams together have 50 mil budget,teams from Athens too,and Olimpija has only 3,5 million € .


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## Capital78 (Jan 23, 2008)

So let's compare Slovenia and Athens urban area. They have 3 million people, whole Slovenia 2 million inhabitants. 

Istanbul has only 2 Euroleague teams, Fener and Efes. Here we don't speak about other teams in Turkish league.


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## gradski (Jan 29, 2008)

Greece said:


> Average Attendances:
> 1. Fenerbahce Ulker (TUR)-12,875
> 2. Union Olimpija Ljubljana (SLO)-12,120
> 3. Maccabi Electra Tel Aviv (ISR)-11,300
> ...





www.sercan.de said:


> in % to Arena Capacity
> 
> 
> Brose Baskets	100.00%
> ...


I can't believe that the best European club have such a low attendances hno:


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## Greece (Jul 10, 2010)

Capital78 said:


> So let's compare Slovenia and Athens urban area. They have 3 million people, whole Slovenia 2 million inhabitants.
> 
> Istanbul has only 2 Euroleague teams, Fener and Efes. Here we don't speak about other teams in Turkish league.


If you guys didn't have a brand new arena, you wouldn't be averaging that much...


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## miran92 (Jul 27, 2009)

Well last year, when Olimpija was in some kind of crisis(well it was for few years), average attendance was 4800 in arena that could hold up to 6000 spectators; that is 80% of arena.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euroleague_2009–10_season_attendance_figures


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## Alexandris (Jul 30, 2009)

Alexandris said:


> I can't see how we can beat this Maccabi in Tel aviv.
> 
> .


Ι should have more faith to my team 


Maccabi Electra *69 - 78* Panathinaikos 

I really hope that PAO will pass. One more game to go.
If there's a strong competitive opponent for CSKA that would be Panathinaikos.
CSKA is better team this year and the number one candidate for the title , but Panathinaikos and Obradovic as underdogs are going to be competitive. 

Let's see what will happen first in a fully packed OAKA arena. We expecting more than 19.000 fans. 

Nothing is over yet. Maccabi can win again in OAKA.

I think this is the last year in Maccabi for Papaloukas and Shortsianitis. Bad games both of them. Maybe Shortsianitis under Obradovic coaching, is gonna improve his game? May be we will sign him up next year in Pana.


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## endrity (Jun 20, 2009)

Yes I can't see CSKA losing this year, especially with Kirilenko really giving it all for them. But Pana would give them a stronger game. 

Anyway, good to see that Pana, Olympiacos, Maccabi, and Bilba all had sold out arenas for the quarter finals with over 10 000 each. Barca, CSKA gotta get moving and do something about new arenas. If not, then I would love to see Zalgiris, Real, the Turkish teams, Milan, Roma overtake them in European basketball importance. Those teams either fill their areans, or in the case of Italian teams have big arenas to potentially fill.


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## N23SK (Feb 16, 2012)

I'm not that sure about CSKA winning this year's Euroleague. Maybe they have the best roster, they play sometimes run and gun basketball, they've got strong defense, but there are two Greek giants + regal barca (my favorite). Last year PAO made two surprises, beating first Brca in QF, than winning the competition. Barca also made some great singings like Marcelinho, Mikel and Ndong are playing much better this season, Lorbek is fantastic, and for Navarro I can't find any proper words. 
If PAO win QF, than I think that they will play against OLY in SF, and Barca against CSKA (although it would be much better Barca-CSKA final, or maybe PAO-OLY  )


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

N23SK said:


> I'm not that sure about CSKA winning this year's Euroleague. Maybe they have the best roster, they play sometimes run and gun basketball, they've got strong defense, but there are two Greek giants + regal barca (my favorite). Last year PAO made two surprises, beating first Brca in QF, than winning the competition. Barca also made some great singings like Marcelinho, Mikel and Ndong are playing much better this season, Lorbek is fantastic, and for Navarro I can't find any proper words.
> If PAO win QF, than I think that they will play against OLY in SF, and Barca against CSKA (although it would be much better Barca-CSKA final, or maybe PAO-OLY  )


If Pao will be in SF, then they will play *against CSKA*!


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## N23SK (Feb 16, 2012)

jugensas said:


> If Pao will be in SF, then they will play *against CSKA*!


Thanks for the info. So this means that we can watch final CSKA-Barca, the best 2 teams in Europe. Of course if there's not any surprise. Can't wait for the F4!


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## Alexandris (Jul 30, 2009)

Don't forget that Pao was never one of the favorites to win the Euroleague except only 2 times.

In 1996 Paris, we were one of the candidates but not the clearly favorite. We didn't have the best team only the best player (D.Wilkins)
In 2000 Thessalonica. YES we were the best favorite. (Mainly because the F4 took place in Greece)
In 2002 Bologna, we were the underdogs and no one believed that we made it.
In 2007 Berlin We were again one of the candidates but not the favorite.
In 2009 in Athens we were the favorite for the second time, because we played in OAKA arena and not because we were better team than CSKA. Both teams were equal !!! 
In 2011 we were the underdogs again against Barcelona playoff games.

So my point is that Panathinaikos *it was never the favorite team to win the Euroleague*. Of course it was one of the strongest candidates, but NEVER the clear favorite as CSKA is, or like Barcelona was in the past. 

So if we win Maccabi and go to F4, I believe that we have chances to win CSKA. 
They have better players, but Pao can do the work.

Lets not be so hasty though. We have one more game with the strong Maccabi, and everything is open.


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## endrity (Jun 20, 2009)

So, which Euroleague club is planning a new arena/extension/renovation? Do you guys have any idea? Have Barca's plans moved along at all?


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

endrity said:


> So, which Euroleague club is planning a new arena/extension/renovation? Do you guys have any idea? Have Barca's plans moved along at all?


Well, Barcelona will opening New Palau (12,000) at 2015.
CSKA will move to Megasport Arena (14,126)
I heard, that Unicaja have plans to expended J.M. Martin Carpena arena till 17,000


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## endrity (Jun 20, 2009)

jugensas said:


> Well, Barcelona will opening New Palau (12,000) at 2015.
> CSKA will move to Megasport Arena (14,126)
> I heard, that Unicaja have plans to expended J.M. Martin Carpena arena till 17,000


Do you have an update on the Barca plan? Last time I checked it was more of an idea rather than an actual plan.


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## PAO13 (Sep 23, 2009)

*32.000* people in a arena that takes 19.000. Only in Greece, only *Panathinaikos*.

Panathinaikos - Maccabi 86-85


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## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS (Jun 5, 2003)

^^ 32k? i thing you are overacting. Anyway having in a indoor gym people packed like animals + all the smoke from the torches, makes you thing that this country has bankrupt morally long before his financial bankruptcy.


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

Maybe, 23'000 fans? By the way, official Euroleague website and stats said, that was 18000 fans.


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## ayanamikun (Feb 2, 2011)

19250 is the legal capacity. When it is sold out they always say just 18000 rounded up. Yesterday were around 23000


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## Alexandris (Jul 30, 2009)

ayanamikun said:


> 19250 is the legal capacity. When it is sold out they always say just 18000 rounded up. Yesterday were around 23000


That's correct.
The legal capacity is 18.000 (not 19250) Panathinaikos is not allowed to give more tickets, more tickets than the number of the seats. (That's something quite understood.) 

Also, Euroleague, for safety matters don't allow the use of the stairs as seats. 
(Many falls occur on stairs and can lead to serious injuries)

It's wrong to have an OAKA arena, full packed even on the stairs. Wrong to happen in any other arena as well. 

So I guess because the OAKA was full packed in every single corner of it, we must had more than 22.000 people inside. 

The issue here is WHO LET THEM enter to the arena, with out a ticket. Because all these people on the stairs, they didn't have tickets. And it's something which is *not fair to people* that they bought their tickets. Next time I won't buy my ticket, and I will wait to enter to the arena free like the others. 
I'd rather watch the game from the stairs free, than pay 40 euros for a seat.

So euroleague couldn't write 22.000 because the official number of attendees is based on the official capacity of the arena is based on the tickets that have been sold.

If OAKA arena belonged to Panathinaikos, I would have increase its capacity to 22.000. There are many empty spaces under the score boards and it's easy to place more seats.


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## N23SK (Feb 16, 2012)

This game shown what basketball is! One of the best games this year. This match also proved that basketball can be more dramatical sport than others. You will never see this in NBA, so because of this I enjoy watching Euroleague. And football can become more attractive and not so expensive fun for rich countries, if UEFA somehow find solution to raise football in Greece, Turkey, Serbia, Croatia and Bulgaria (club football) so there'll be better atmosphere than the one we are seeing when Barca, Real, Leverkusen or Chelsea are playing.


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## Zorba (Sep 7, 2005)

KONSTANTINOUPOLIS said:


> Anyway having in a indoor gym people packed like animals + all the smoke from the torches, makes you thing that this country has bankrupt morally long before his financial bankruptcy.


:applause:


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## PAO13 (Sep 23, 2009)

KONSTANTINOUPOLIS said:


> ^^ 32k? i thing you are overacting.





> *Πάνω από 32.000* άνθρωποι γέμισαν κάθε γωνιά του ΟΑΚΑ και έσπρωξαν τον Εξάστερο στο Final Four της Κωνσταντινούπολης.
> 
> Leoforos.gr


I just wrote what i read. 

Nevertheless i can only assume it was a new record in attendance as far as Euroleague goes?


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## PAO13 (Sep 23, 2009)

N23SK said:


> This game shown what basketball is! One of the best games this year. This match also proved that basketball can be more dramatical sport than others. *You will never see this in NBA, so because of this I enjoy watching Euroleague.*


:applause::applause::applause:


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## Bori427 (Jan 6, 2007)

KONSTANTINOUPOLIS said:


> ^^ 32k? i thing you are overacting. Anyway having in a indoor gym people packed like animals + all the smoke from the torches, makes you thing that this country has bankrupt morally long before his financial bankruptcy.


Completely agree!


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## endrity (Jun 20, 2009)

The Fernando Buesa Arena, Tau Vitoria's home, will be fully opened tonight so it can seat about 15000 spectators in a game against Real Madrid.


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## ayanamikun (Feb 2, 2011)

With the retractable seats it can fit 5000 and a with few modifications it is fine, considering its age. 

















Faliro Olympic Arena as far as I know is not available for sports since it is a convention center now. And Helleniko Arena is a long shot plus it will cost much more using it than upgrading Glyfada hall...


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

ayanamikun said:


> With the retractable seats it can fit 5000 and a with few modifications it is fine, considering its age.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As I said already, IF they get a Euroleague place. The new system was released and Greece's 3rd team was eliminated by Euroleague. Greece's 3rd team no longer gets a place.

So they would play in Glyfada for *EUROCUP*, not Euroleague. So yes, since the Euroleague eliminated Greece's third place, then they would be in Eurocup, thus where Glyfada would pass.

Now, Euroleague made a new rule with wild cards being added, which are picked by Bertomeu. If Panionios got a wild card, then they would use the Faliro Olympic Arena, which is available to them.

Glyfada will not pass Euroleague specifications without much renovation. It isn't just a 5,000 seat rule, but many other rules the arenas have to meet. The old style arenas that only have tiers on one side of the court do not meet the requirements.

It's not that Glyfada is a bad arena, Panathinaikos did a lot of upgrades to it in recent years, but it would have to be re-designed to meet Euroleague rules.

But yes, with just a few updates, it would be fine for Eurocup regulations. The only bad thing about it is that many of the seats are bleachers.

As for Helliniko, Panionios inquired about it and was told that Olympiacos already had plans to use it. Whether that happens or not, who knows? But I do know that the owners of SEF are very upset with Olympiacos, due to all the damages from the fans in recent years.


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## ayanamikun (Feb 2, 2011)

Ok, interesting about Faliro. I wanted to see it used for basketball. It would be the best looking arena in euroleague. We'll see.


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## Bori427 (Jan 6, 2007)

How come so many arenas in Europe have such little capacity?


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

ayanamikun said:


> Ok, interesting about Faliro. I wanted to see it used for basketball. It would be the best looking arena in euroleague. We'll see.


I think it would make more sense for Olympiacos to use it. But, since it has capacity of 8,500 with the top tier in, I guess it is not a possibility because of the 10,000 rule for clubs with the contracts.

It's strange though that Olympiacos never even seemed to think about using it, considering it is so close to SEF.



Bori427 said:


> How come so many arenas in Europe have such little capacity?


Well, in Greece for example, there are many larger and nicer arenas that can be used for basketball, and even were designed with basketball as one of the uses.

But the problem is that the rent amounts for the arenas are very high. So if you are a Greek club without much money for your budget, and you don't have to play in the Euroleague, where they have a minimum capacity of 5,000 rule, then there is no reason for the the club to pay a high rent for a bigger arena.

So most of the clubs just play in smaller arenas, because they have no need for a bigger one at the moment. It's not that the bigger arenas are not there, because they are. It's just that the clubs don't use them. If that makes sense.


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## pozinhossc (Oct 10, 2010)

This are the 11-12 season attendance analisys in ACB i collected from the ACB website (yeah, i'm learning excel and i'm very proud of it    








As you can see, Bori427, in Spain, arenas have more than enough capacity for basketball (the indoor spanish sport with highest average, followed by handball, futsal, roller hockey and volleyball.

Vitoria played most season in a refurbished bullring with +-8500 capacity, and the % is relative for the new 15000+ Buesa Arena. Next year Vitoria will be by far the highest attended indoor team in Spain, higher even than several Primera Division (football) teams.

Jouventut poor 41% is due both by several yearrs of sport and finacial crisis and also they play in the overscaled Olimpic Pavillion in a town next to Barcelona.

Estudiantes (one of two teams from Madrid city, the other is obvious :lol: an the third, fuenlabrada from a suburb) finally won't get relegated, as the champion of LEB Oro (CB Canarias) won't be able to afford the money necessary to pay the enter fee (it is payed the first time a club joins ACB). Possibly Menorca won't neither gets the money so Valladolid will save too.
Two teams face high probabilities of folding: alicante wich is overdependant in public money for its budget and some pays are delayed/cancelled and Obradorio (from Santigao de Compostela) wich faces the last year to become an limited sport society, compulsory for most sports club in spain.

Back to the arenas topic, Sevilla won't likely play in the new proposed arena for the 2014 World basket Champioship

also , during the summer we will know if tthe teamsp from Madrid remain another year in Palacio e los Deportes, as the have moved several times this past years among several Arenas in the city


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## N23SK (Feb 16, 2012)

pozinhossc Do you know how much the clubs earned from tickets selling since I cannot find some article about that on ACB website. I done some math and it seems that if 20 euro is average ticket, that there are some clubs that gain more the 4 million euros from tickets selling. I'm I wright or not? I can see that Real Madrid sells even tickets that cost 50 euro.

CSKA officially confirmed that they will use and play their Euroleague home matches in Megasport Arena.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...45705541794.113872.136809531794&type=1&ref=nf


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## Greece (Jul 10, 2010)

ayanamikun said:


> With the retractable seats it can fit 5000 and a with few modifications it is fine, considering its age.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where did you hear that Faliro Olympic Arena is not available for sports? They usually don't have sports there because they have many conventions, concerts, ice shows, etc. there, but they have also had the past few Greek Volleyball Cup finals there...


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## ayanamikun (Feb 2, 2011)

lol, cup finals is not the same as being a home court throughout a season


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## pozinhossc (Oct 10, 2010)

N23SK said:


> pozinhossc Do you know how much the clubs earned from tickets selling since I cannot find some article about that on ACB website. I done some math and it seems that if 20 euro is average ticket, that there are some clubs that gain more the 4 million euros from tickets selling. I'm I wright or not? I can see that Real Madrid sells even tickets that cost 50 euro.
> 
> CSKA officially confirmed that they will use and play their Euroleague home matches in Megasport Arena.
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...45705541794.113872.136809531794&type=1&ref=nf


It's very difficult getting those figures. Sport economic info in Spain is not trasparent. Otherwise, people would realize how much spanish sports clubs depend on public money, not only with sport courts leases (wich only Barcelona owns) but sponsorship, buying tickets and giving it for free in schools, etc...

As an example, i saw an article (very short, without specifications) wich states that Real Madrid is the top earning club in ACB with 11 million euros, apparently quite ahead of second, wich is FC Barcelona.
This is due to going back to Madrid city center (Palacio de los deportes) and the hype with Ibaka and Rudy Fernandez playing some games during the lockout in NBA, plus a renewal with the top sponsor (MMT)

I found season tickets prices form 2011-12 Real MAdrid season:
http://www.realmadrid.com/cs/Satell...oticiaEspecialVentaEntradas/1202804007359.htm
Different prices from left to right general public, Real Madrid (i thinks there is a card for prove that) and Real Madrid Member.
I think all league and Euroleague matches are included (in Euroleague up to quarter finals and league include playoffs)

I just found prices in 2008-09 season in Vistalegre (with worse basket configuration and higher prices). 
I suposse this year season tickets were lower to fix the disaster from last uear playing in La Caja Magica








source:http://www.realmadrid.com/cs/Satellite/es/1202793282655/noticia/Noticia/Campana_de_abonos.htm


Still, the budget of Real and Barça are much bigger than their incomes, both estimated losing some 10 to 20 million euros per year.

I'll try to get some figures of the top clubs and pos here in some days, so people can get a rough image of ACB. In advance is very very bad.
As an example, is more and more likel netz year will consist of only 16 top two from LEB won't promote as they didn't get the money
-two clubs from ACB are close to fold. But most of remainig teams are cutting budgets (some as much as 30% like Unicaja de Malaga)

Also in the arena topic remains the question wheter Barça plays in Palau and looses A-License or wheter gets adeal with Euroleague (based in Barcelona) or plays in Palau San Jordi (wich fans don't like at all)


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## gincan (Feb 1, 2006)

I believe the situation with FC Barcelona and Real Madrid in the Spanish basketball league is exceptional. I can not think of any other sports team in Europe that get such massive subventions from another sportssection. I mean Fenerbache is almost the oposite where the Baseketball subsidies the Football.

Anyway, the case of FC Barcelona is probably the most striking, with around 7 million of revenue they still make a loss of some 20-25 million euro, the shortfall is all covered by the football section. Real Madrid does the same thing but only loses some 15-20 million.

This I think is gross and other team in ABC league should complain since this effectively kills the competitiveness of other teams.


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## ayanamikun (Feb 2, 2011)

And I thought Oly and PAO had trouble. Euroleauge is a dead end unless it adopts NBA economic policies. FIBA Europe runs as if we are in the 1970s


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## Bori427 (Jan 6, 2007)

Fenerbahces basketball runs on around $20 million dollars and you're telling me it does not get subventions? You're even telling me it covers some of the losses by its football club?


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## pozinhossc (Oct 10, 2010)

I found ACB budgets from 2010-11 season, i made quick chart with some 11-12 budgets and some future targets:








For example:

2010-11
Barcelona: Budget 30mill looses: 27,9mill
Real Madrid: Budget 28mill looses: +-20mill

2011-12
Real Madrid had some 11mill revenue

2012-13
Real Madrid: budget +-20mill (revenues are spected to lower a bit, some 2mill for Real Madrid from TV this year, i suposse with Euroleague TV included)`cause new ACB lowered TV deal), they could cut looses almost by half in only tow seasons. There were fears Real president would fold basket section. It won't happen. They can assume looses, but they want to controle it.

Barcelona future budgets depens much on how they deal with the issue of New Palau (building or not, movin to Palau San Jorfi or not). I will try to find figures. And also from new spected superpower Vitoria's Caja Laboral (they get huge public subsidies though).

Very few news on basket money here (they speak a lot about club's debts, but very little of economics, budgets, etc..)Not even specific forums seems to mind (ACB forum, etc...)

EDIT: I forgot, ACB's minimun budget is that 3,6 million euros of all bottom teams


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## N23SK (Feb 16, 2012)

Since you mentioned the budgets of the clubs, do you know how financially big is the new deal between TVE and ACB, since they agreed for new terms and now as I read one game will be broadcast on La1. And are the money separate equally to the teams or it depends from the position on the table?


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

Hello. So or all A license teams will go to 10,000 arenas?


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## undertaker89 (Nov 11, 2010)

I wanted to ask the same question. Where is going to play Siena for example?


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## pozinhossc (Oct 10, 2010)

That's the million euro answer.

Apparently among a-licensed, only Barcelona and Siena won`t assure +10000 arenas next season.

I read in some websites (for example), that Euroleague would had accepted a three year moratorium (until 2015) for using current Palau if they started the works on the New Palau Blaugrana at he end of this season (potencial place of New Palau is not the exact same place, is some meter away: so they could be using current arena during the works of the new).








source:http://mmgol.seiscero.com/mm/imagen/b1ee7b98429d2d318ccf086d1837bc4c_l.jpg

but Barsa´s president has stated that they won't build it now, due to economic issues. and the use of Sant Jordi is out of question. So only two posibbilities last:
-Eurloeague (based in Barcelona :| ) extends the moratorium changing its own rules.
-Barça earns playing in Euroleague reaching at least the ACB finals (playing the finals in ACB grants you playing Euroleague, otherwise, you depend on who advances further on playoffs).

On siena i don't know much, not even if they have possibilities of moving to a close bigger arena.


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## eagle in sky (Feb 9, 2010)

The budgets of Turkish teams in Euroleague in 2012/2013 seasons:

Efes Pılsen 30 m $
Fenerbahce Ulker 21 m $
Besiktas 8 m $


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## SheLL (Dec 20, 2008)

Bori427 said:


> Fenerbahces basketball runs on around $20 million dollars and you're telling me it does not get subventions? You're even telling me it covers some of the losses by its football club?


Fenerbahce's Budget comes from sponsors and new arena. 
Lodges were sold starting from 100K TL ( 55K dollars ) 

Arena income has been recently added into budget but before that it was mainly from sponsors, has been that way for many years now.


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## ayanamikun (Feb 2, 2011)

No team in Europe makes more than 10-15 million and certainly not Fenerbahce. 
Even winning the Euroleague title it only provides 3.5 million.


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Yes, most income for turkish basketball clubs are the sponsorship deals or like Efes the company who owns the club.


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## N23SK (Feb 16, 2012)

ayanamikun said:


> No team in Europe makes more than 10-15 million and certainly not Fenerbahce.
> Even winning the Euroleague title it only provides 3.5 million.


Are you sure about this 3.5 million? In the past seasons, the prize for winning the Euroleague was only 500k.


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## ayanamikun (Feb 2, 2011)

I think this is all included, like the victories you need along the way and the tv share


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

ayanamikun said:


> And I thought Oly and PAO had trouble. Euroleauge is a dead end unless it adopts NBA economic policies. FIBA Europe runs as if we are in the 1970s


I hope you are joking.

The NBA lost $1.845 *b*illion in the previous 5 seasons.




N23SK said:


> Are you sure about this 3.5 million? In the past seasons, the prize for winning the Euroleague was only 500k.




Olympiacos (Euroleague champions) got for 2011-12 season:


€500,000 euros Euroleague contract

€750,000 euros Euroleague TV contract

€300,000 euros Greek League contract

€300,000 euros Greek League TV contract

€700,000 euros for Euroleague wins

€1,500,000 euros for Euroleague championship

= €4,050,000 euros total

Then there is about 5,600,000 euros in the attendance and merchandise.

= about €9,650,000 euros revenues


Then budget cost was,

€8,000,000 euros net salaries of the players

€6,546,000 in taxes for the players (€14,546,000 for the gross salaries of the players)

€2,000,0000 euros for the cars, insurance, houses, etc. of the players

€3,000,000 euros for the coaches, trainer, physician, therapist

€500,000 euros for the expenses of the team

= €20,046,000 euros team budget


Then you also have the office costs (administration)

€1,000,000 euros

Then you have the cost of the youth team

€500,000 euros

Then you have the costs of the contract buyouts and contract terminations,

Rasho Nesterovic = €100,000 euros contract termination

Ioannis Bourousis = €100,000 euros contract termination

Acie Law = €100,000 euros buyout

Martynas Gecevicius = €250,000 euros buyout

= €22,096,000 in total costs


€9,650,000 euros in revenues
- €22,096,000 in total costs


= -€12,446,000


So Olympiacos, the 2011-12 Euroleague champions, lost about €12.446 million euros ($15 million dollars). 

This is not bad at all compared to NBA teams. As the average loss for NBA teams was at $10-$12 million dollars.

So actually, the Euroleague "economic model" is really no worse than the NBA economic model.


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## ayanamikun (Feb 2, 2011)

Amerikanos said:


> I hope you are joking.
> 
> The NBA lost $1.845 *b*illion in the previous 5 seasons.
> 
> ...


NBA has better marketing policies and have much more income from the games and the merchentise of their teams. The fact that they loose money_* is irrelevant and their problem*_ as their expenses are of another order of magnitute.

If the team budget is 100 million and you loose 10 then cut the costs, but if the budget is 20 and you loose 10 then increase the damn revenues!


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## kerouac1848 (Jun 9, 2009)

Didn't realise TV rights were so low, how much does competition make from broadcasters?


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## pozinhossc (Oct 10, 2010)

kerouac1848 said:


> Didn't realise TV rights were so low, how much does competition make from broadcasters?


Here in Spain for example, next season is likely ACB gives TV rights to Spanish national television (La Primera) for free. Yes, for free, in exchange, ACB holds the revenue in TV sponsors, as La Primera cannot get money from advertisement. I think later regional TVs can get deals with clubs in their regions, but all of them are in very bad shape, many of them likely to close in coming years. the free deal is in exchange of showing top week game on Sunday morning on Firs television (La Primera. Showing anything on this channel should assure more share than before in Teledeporte(competing with La Liga would be insane, that schedule is the "lesser evil" competing "only" with football's second divison, F1, and MotoGP.

Some years ago (first in the century, i think), Spanish first pay per view TV (Canal+) paid some 15 million a season, but it worked badly as they couldn't get enough revenue back. From there, each year Spanish National TV paid 2 to 4 million a year and regional TVs some 1,5 million.

Speaking of sport, ACB is right now only 17 teams, finally Alicante sold the place to Tenerife, and Valladolid was expelled for not paying players ages, "extrange"hno:, because many teams had made that for years BUT now top teams are interested in shrinking the league to make room for the expanded Euroleague.

In August Obradoiro (Santiago de Compostela), must gather some 2 million eruos to keep the place in ACB


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

Effective as of the 2012–13 season, Euroleague clubs with an "A License" must host their home matches in arenas that have a seating capacity of at least 10,000 people. In 2008, ULEB voted to increase the arena seating requirement to 10,000 within four years time in order to force clubs to move into and/or build bigger arenas.

Situation:

Panathinaikos - O.A.K.A. 19,250
Anadolu Efes - Sinan Erdem Dome 16,000
ŽALGIRIS - ŽALGIRIO ARENA 15,688
Caja Laboral - Fernando Buesa Arena 15,504
Real Madrid - Palacio de Deportes de la Comunidad de Madrid 15,000
Olympiacos - Peace & Friendship Stadium 14,905
CSKA - Megasport Arena 14,126
Fenerbache Ulker - Ulker Sports Arena 13,000
Maccabi Electra - Nokia Arena 11,700
EA7 Emporio Armani - Mediolanum Forum 11,210
Unicaja - Palacio de Deportes J.M. Martin Carpena 11,000
- - - - -
Regal Barcelona - Palau Blaugrana 7,585
Montepaschi - Palasport Mens Sana 7,025
Asseco Prokom - Gdynia Sports Arena 5,500

So, if Euroleague is strong organization, these three teams will lose A license! Or they must to move in bigger arena;

Barcelona - Palau Sant Jordi 17,000
Asseco Prokom - Ergo Arena 11,409
Montepaschi - ?????


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## Stefan-SRB (Sep 17, 2012)

Olympiacos maybe went to Helleniko Olympic Arena (14,500).
As for Montepaschi they for sure don't have plans for arena.I think that Montepaschi will lose A license after this season.And Virtus Bologna will be the candidate to take it.


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## palag (Dec 21, 2010)

Montepaschi Siena palasport 6000 seats


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## RokasLT (Nov 17, 2010)

_Vilniaus Lietuvos Rytas_ - Siemens Arena 11,000


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## Aiwa (May 8, 2005)

6000 seats for A licese club is not enaugh


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## jaroou (Aug 8, 2009)

Asseco Prokom already moved to Ergo Arena 11,409


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## ayanamikun (Feb 2, 2011)

Link? BTW lol @ Barcelona and Montepaschi for loosing their licence


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## pozinhossc (Oct 10, 2010)

Barcelona is confirmed to begin season in Palau Blaugrana (7585) against Brose Basket. Euroliga ignore its own rules...

In arena news, AEG (Anschuzt Entertaiment Group) is for sale, wich holds O2 World Berlin (Alba Berlin) and O2 London (next two Euroleague Final Four)


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

Well, I writed to all Euroleague teams arenas owner, and wanted to know all arenas official capacity. Just 3 or 4 arenas answered for me...


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## Hansadyret (Jun 22, 2008)

If only basketball was bigger in Germany, UK and northern Europe. There are some nice arenas there. For now it's mostly a southern european sport.


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## N23SK (Feb 16, 2012)

Euroleague is playing again with the other teams! 

There is a new deadline for Barcelona and Montepaschi. The final date they need to move to bigger arenas is 2016!
The source of the news: http://www.sportando.net/ita/coppe/eurolega/44546/bertomeu-pronto-ad-una-moratoria-fino-al-2016-per-siena-e-barcelona.html

And at the end of the day, team like Partizan can not be given A license, but there can be A license for team that has an average attendence of 3500.


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## N23SK (Feb 16, 2012)

EA7 Emporio Armani Milano - Boston Celtics


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## Aiwa (May 8, 2005)

N23SK said:


> Euroleague is playing again with the other teams!
> 
> There is a new deadline for Barcelona and Montepaschi. The final date they need to move to bigger arenas is 2016!
> The source of the news: http://www.sportando.net/ita/coppe/eurolega/44546/bertomeu-pronto-ad-una-moratoria-fino-al-2016-per-siena-e-barcelona.html
> ...


Well, that is a big shame for EL.


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## gincan (Feb 1, 2006)

ayanamikun said:


> Link? BTW lol @ Barcelona and Montepaschi for loosing their licence


Neither of these teams have enough demand to warrant a new arena. Why build a 10.000 arena if you only can draw less than 4000? Barcelona tried to use the olympic arena before but that was a fiasco.


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## ayanamikun (Feb 2, 2011)

Because these are the rules that's why. 

BTW
*Euroleague 2011-2012 attendance ( and previous year)*

http://forums.interbasket.net/showthread.php?19575-Euroleague-2011-2012-attendance


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## PAO13 (Sep 23, 2009)

Hansadyret said:


> If only basketball was bigger in Germany, UK and northern Europe. There are some nice arenas there. For now it's mostly a southern european sport.


lol, I remember around year 2000 there was quite of a basketball craze here in Norway too. TV 2 had a program dedicated to basket, that aired several times a week. Many teams in the BLNO also drew full house every home match (at least my local team did). Unfortunately it died out quickly.



eagle in sky said:


> The budgets of Turkish teams in Euroleague in 2012/2013 seasons:
> 
> Efes Pılsen 30 m $
> Fenerbahce Ulker 21 m $
> Besiktas 8 m $


Interesting, Panathinaikos has a budget of 12 million Euros this season.


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## ultEmate (May 5, 2010)

Megasport. Preparations for CSKA Moscow home game. Transforming the rink to court.


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

Panathinaikos budget is €13 million euros *just for the players*. The whole budget is €18 million euros. Last year it was €25 million euros.

So, CSKA moved to Megasport Arena (14,100 - 15,500 for basketball) and Prokom also moved to their bigger arena (11,500 for basketball). Siena announced they will build a new 11,000 arena, and that it will be ready by the extension timeline set by Euroleague. 

OK, so all of these teams keep the A contract.

But why does Barca keep theirs? They refused to move to a bigger arena, even though the Sant Jordi and the Olympic arena are available to them. They also refused to agree to completing a new arena by the extension date set by Euroleague. So just because they are the home team of where Euroleague is based and just because they are Jordi Bertomeu's favorite team, they are allowed to get by on this?

Under the rules, all of the other teams did something to keep their A contract. Even if Siena did get an extension, they at least agreed to build a new arena, and to have it ready by the extension deadline. Barca does nothing.......

So why are they being allowed to keep their A contract? What about a club like Bilbao? They have a 15,500 arena in their area that they use for big games sometimes, and also their own new arena that seats 10,000. Why not give them a contract? I really don't get some of the things that Euroleague does.

Anyway, here are the budgets of ACB clubs for 2012-13. This is the whole budget, not just the cost of the players.


1. Barcelona Basquet – €30 million euros

2. Real Madrid – €30 million euros

3. Baskonia Vitoria – €15 million euros

4. Malaga – €12 million euros

5. Valencia Basket – €10 million euros

6. Bilbao Basket – €9 million euros

7. Sevilla – €5.5 million euros

8. CAI Zaragoza – €5 million euros

9. Gran Canaria – €5 million euros

10. GBC – €4 million euros

11. Joventut – €3 million euros

12. Fuenlabrada – €2.7 million euros

13. Obradoiro – €2.7 million euros

14. Murcia – €2.7 million euros

15. Manresa – €2.7 million euros

16. Canarias – €2.7 million euros

17. Estudiantes – €2.5 million euros

18. Valladolid – €2.1 million euros


----------



## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

I heard that CSKA wants to keep Megasport Arena just for their hockey club and that they are going to expand Universal Sports Hall from the current 5,800 seats to the needed 10,000.

Has anyone else heard about this?


----------



## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

The latest reports are that Euroleague has told both Barcelona and Siena that if they do not move to 10,000+ arenas soon, both teams will be stripped of their licenses.


----------



## PAO13 (Sep 23, 2009)

^Good news.


----------



## RMB2007 (Apr 1, 2007)

Any idea what Barcelona's and Siena's attendances are?


----------



## RMB2007 (Apr 1, 2007)

Mayor of London promoting the Final Four, which will take place at The O2 Arena in May:


----------



## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

Milano, Siena, Barca, CSKA in danger of losing their license with this new rule proposal.

http://www.euroleague.net/euroleague-basketball/news/i/112848/6330

Finally, the board was advised of proposed Euroleague by-law changes. Among them would be teams who do not qualify to the Top 16 joining the Last 16 of the Eurocup and *a requirement for A-licence clubs to average 8,000 paying fans or show significant two-year growth to retain their licence. *


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## PAO13 (Sep 23, 2009)

Semi final, and the arena is empty. Congratulations Bertomeu.


----------



## ayanamikun (Feb 2, 2011)

One question: *How much $?* You know, the price list of Fiba


----------



## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Maybe the tickets were too expensive?


----------



## RMB2007 (Apr 1, 2007)

www.sercan.de said:


> Maybe the tickets were too expensive?


So few in the UK could honestly care about basketball. In fact, most people here probably wouldn't even know what the Final Four is.


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## ayanamikun (Feb 2, 2011)

The entire country has no team in Euroleague, no tickets for the f4 and the same tv audience as usual. I repeat the only question is how much money did UK gave to Fiba. Boris, tell us how much for London F4. Qatar got the fifa world championship, but this is worst for its type.


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

and London 2014?!


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## ayanamikun (Feb 2, 2011)

www.sercan.de said:


> Maybe the tickets were too expensive?


They had very cheap tickets too. 9k attendance. Fiasco.


PAO gets punished thousands of euros this year because the president complained about the referees. Then pays 150k euros penalty for allowing 30k fans into OAKA...

Nothing more to say.


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

www.sercan.de said:


> and London 2014?!


Euroleague confirmed, that Londom may be canceled for 2014. It's good chance for Kaunas, because our arena is the most-visited in Euroleague for 2 years in a row and at 2014 Zalgiris will celebrate 70 years anniversary  But we have problems, with moneys, so we wouldn;t have strong team at next season...


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## ayanamikun (Feb 2, 2011)

:applause: Oly champion again!! :applause:


----------



## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

GREECE champion again!
Very good for the country and the greek people.

2011 KAE Panathinaikos AO 
2012 KAE Olympiacos SFP	
2013 KAE Olympiacos SFP

I think the financial crises begun 2010?


----------



## RMB2007 (Apr 1, 2007)

Any idea what the attendance was for the final?


----------



## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

1/2 finals
CSKA Moscow - Olympiacos Piraeus: 9,218
FC Barcelona Regal - Real Madrid: 13,193

_Third-place playoff _
CSKA Moscow - FC Barcelona Regal: 10,716

_Final_
Olympiacos Piraeus - Real Madrid: 15,169

Final attendances:
2013 London: 15,169
2012 Istanbul: 15,550
2011 Barcelona: 15,768
2010 Paris: 14,768
2009 Berlin: 13,238
2008 Madrid: 13,480
2007 Athens: 18,363


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## ayanamikun (Feb 2, 2011)

www.sercan.de said:


> GREECE champion again!
> Very good for the country and the greek people.
> 
> 2011 KAE Panathinaikos AO
> ...


Irrelevant.


----------



## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Of course it is irrelevant, but nice coincidence.

At least good news for the greek people.


----------



## PAO13 (Sep 23, 2009)

www.sercan.de said:


> GREECE champion again!
> Very good for the country and the greek people.
> 
> 2011 KAE Panathinaikos AO
> ...


We have indubitably been very privileged with our basketball, and I doubt it will end here. I would actually not be surprised if we get two Hellenic teams in the final next year, for the very first time. At least if Olympiakos manages to keep their best players. Panathinaikos will certainly improve during the summer. 

Basket is on a high in the country at the moment, and if the national team is successful in the upcoming Eurobasket, I'd say the sport will be more popular than ever. Hopefully this will also revitalize some of the other clubs.


----------



## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Whats the reason?

It is not just money, because the best players are mostly greek ones.

Its like Spian at Football. Very good youth academy?


----------



## PAO13 (Sep 23, 2009)

Good question, which is hard to answer on. Of course Greece has a good basketball tradition, especially from the 80's and onwards, which has allowed us to build up a good knowledge about the sport. That goes for players, coaches, referees, journalists, and the fans as well. Right now we might also see some effect from the Eurobasket gold and Mundobasket silver in 2005 and 2006, when it comes to our youth sides.As Panathinaikos fans we have also been very fortunate to have a wealthy family as the club owners for 25 years. Owners that loves the club very much, and have supported it financially all the way. The same goes for Olympiakos the last seven years.

Combined with the absolutely tragic state of greek club football, which are corrupt from top to bottom, I think we get the result that is. Basketball just seems like a better and "healthier" alternative to football.


----------



## Guest (May 13, 2013)

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=275905

Euroleague Team Budgets (Total Budgets, not just net base salaries)

*Final four highlighted in bold* 

Top 3 in budgets all made it to the Final Four. Olympiacos, at 7th, was the final semi finalist and eventual winner  

*1. CSKA Moscow - €40 million euros*
*2. Barcelona Basquet - €30 million euros*
*3. Real Madrid - €30 million euros*
4. Fenerbahce - €27 million euros
5. Efes - €23 million euros
6. Olimpia Milano - €20 million euros
*7. Olympiacos - €19 million euros*
8. Khimky Moscow Region - €19 million euros
9. Panathinaikos - €18 million euros
10. Maccabi Tel Aviv - €15.5 million euros
11. Baskonia Vitoria - €12 million euros
12. Zalgiris Kaunas - €12 million euros
13. Malaga - €12 million euros
14. Montepaschi Siena - €10 million euros
15. Alba Berlin - €10 million euros
16. Cantu - €8.5 million euros
17. Brose Baskets - €8 million euros
18. Cedevita - €7 million euros
19. Besiktas - €7 million euros
20. Lietuvos Rytas - €6 million euros
22. Elan Chalon - €5.5 million euros
22. Prokom - €5 million euros
23. Partizan - €4.5 million euros
24. Union Olimpija - €4 million euros


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS (Jun 5, 2003)

www.sercan.de said:


> Whats the reason?
> 
> It is not just money, because the best players are mostly greek ones.
> 
> Its like Spian at Football. Very good youth academy?


Hi Sercan, Hellas has a long tradition in basketball, AEK for example in the sixties won the Eurocup in front of 60-70k (i dont remember exactly) people which was a world record for many years. Panathinaikos and Olympiacos has won the Euroleague title 9 times in the last 17 years. Basketball due to his "outdoor" nature is very beloved here, any day of the year you can grab a ball and go for a few shoots.


----------



## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

5portsF4n said:


> http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=275905
> 
> Euroleague Team Budgets (Total Budgets, not just net base salaries)
> 
> ...


The figures for the german teams are wrong. Bamberg has 9 Mio € and Alba has less than Bamberg (likely arounf 7,5 mio*€)


----------



## dinamo_zagreb (Dec 23, 2011)

www.sercan.de said:


> Final attendances:
> 2013 London: 15,169
> 2012 Istanbul: 15,550
> 2011 Barcelona: 15,768
> ...


It's about time to see Zagreb and Belgrade as F4 hosts.

As Belgrade will have two teams next season and Zagreb is without EL team for the first time in history and if there is host switch on the horizon, Zagreb should go in.


----------



## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

dinamo_zagreb said:


> It's about time to see Zagreb and Belgrade as F4 hosts.
> 
> As Belgrade will have two teams next season and Zagreb is without EL team for the first time in history and if there is host switch on the horizon, Zagreb should go in.


I agree, that Zagreb and Belgarde have amazing arenas, but sorry, it's time for Kaunas. Euroleague always said, that Zalgiris is very important for league, so, at 2014 Zalgiris club will celebrate 70 yeats anniversary. Also, Zalgiris now are in very bad financial situation, so F4 in Kaunas can be our help, because, then sponsors must to help for Zalgiris, if we want to see our team on the 1st spot


----------



## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

I guess neither of those cities will get to host a Final4. The local market is too small. The Euroleague boss Bertomeu gave an interview to a german sports website spox.com, where he said:



> Nur ein Beispiel, um das zu verdeutlichen: Vitoria möchte seit zehn Jahren das Final Four austragen. Dennoch müssen wir ihnen absagen mit dem Hinweis, dass Berlin, London oder Paris viel größere Märkte sind, auch wenn es keine typischen Basketball-Städte sind wie Vitoria. Das ist die Realität, die jeder akzeptieren sollte.


the short translation is: Vitoria tries to host a Final4 for 10 years now, but they will not get it, because their local market is too small. So I guess the Final4 will only be hosted in major european cities like London, Paris, Berlin, Barcelona, Madrid, Moskow, maybe munich, but the olympic arena isn't good enough.

Bartomeu also said, that it is very likely that Bayern Munich Basketball will get a wildcard next season if they don't win the german title.

Here is the complete interview in german: http://www.spox.com/de/sport/mehrsp...n-muenchen-wild-card-financial-fair-play.html


----------



## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

Matze20111984 said:


> I guess neither of those cities will get to host a Final4. The local market is too small. The Euroleague boss Bertomeu gave an interview to a german sports website spox.com, where he said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, local market is not very huge, BUT IF THESE CITIES (Kaunas, Vitoria, Zagreb, Belgrade) have these huge arenas, so, cities shows, that arenas is useful


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

THREE CANDIDATES OF 2014 EUROLEAGUE FINAL FOUR:

KAUNAS - ZALGIRIO ARENA (15,688 SEATS)
VITORIA - FERNANDO BUESA ARENA (15,504 SEATS)
BERLIN - O2 WORLD (14,800 SEATS)


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## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

jugensas said:


> THREE CANDIDATES OF 2014 EUROLEAGUE FINAL FOUR:
> 
> KAUNAS - ZALGIRIO ARENA (15,688 SEATS)
> VITORIA - FERNANDO BUESA ARENA (15,504 SEATS)
> BERLIN - O2 WORLD (14,800 SEATS)


Vitoria is no favorute! EL boss said that this week. Today I saw on twitter that Munich might be a candidate to host the Euroleague Final Four 2014.


----------



## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

Matze20111984 said:


> Vitoria is no favorute! EL boss said that this week. Today I saw on twitter that Munich might be a candidate to host the Euroleague Final Four 2014.


Munich haven't arena. I heard just that Munich BC will get wild card


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## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

jugensas said:


> Munich haven't arena. I heard just that Munich BC will get wild card


Munich has the olympic arena for around 13,000 spectators. It's not modern but it has tradition.


----------



## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

Matze20111984 said:


> Well I guess there are several reasons:
> 
> 1. The sponsor Audi doesn't have the naming rights of the olympic arena, they only have the rights for the Audi Dome
> 2. The rent for the olympic arena is way too high
> ...


So basically because of economic reasons. This is same problem for Greek clubs in Athens area. There are big and modern arenas all over Athens sitting empty, while teams play in old outdated gyms.

It is because of same types of economic issues.










Audi Dome, home of Bayern Munich (above), reminds me much of the arena Italian club Cantù was using for Euroleague games, PalaDesio (below).










They even have the same capacity for basketball, at 6,700.


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## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

These 2 arenas really look quite similar!


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## Club Basketball Guy (Sep 10, 2013)

*Arena Pics*

Hi, I'm a new member from the US. I'm beginning a blog that will present reasons to begin basketball clubs in the States. American readers will be very impresseed with these venues. Are these pics available for my usage? And, are there pics available that will show members of these clubs using facilities or in bar or restaurant?


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

Montepaschi Siena will play their Euroleague games in the 2013-14 season at the Nelson Mandela Forum in Florence, Italy.

*Nelson Mandela Forum* capacity: 8,000


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## blackroseimmortal (Nov 24, 2012)

*Fenerbahçe Ülker Arena*


----------



## blackroseimmortal (Nov 24, 2012)

*Fenerbahçe Ülker Arena*


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## blackroseimmortal (Nov 24, 2012)

*Fenerbahçe Ülker Arena*


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## blackroseimmortal (Nov 24, 2012)

*Fenerbahçe Ülker Arena*


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

French basketball club JSF Nanterre will play Euroleague games in the 2013-14 season at Halle Georges Carpentier.

*Halle Georges Carpentier* (capacity 5,000):


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## PAO13 (Sep 23, 2009)

Panathinaikos will play their two first home games at Cyprus and Crete.

Lefkosia - "Tasos Papadoupoulos - Eleftheria" - 6.000










Iraklio - "Dio Aorakia" - 5.200


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## Aiwa (May 8, 2005)

Again, probably the best arena in Euroleague - Zalgiris Arena!


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## sali_haci (Oct 3, 2009)

^^ Probably


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## Aiwa (May 8, 2005)

Well Zalgiris arena is biger (15500) than Ulker and it has better seats, so...


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## Guest (Oct 1, 2013)

They're both quality arenas. Good for the game in Europe


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## Aiwa (May 8, 2005)

Yes they sure is! I'm not saying that one or other is better, these two arena are best in EL and are perfect example to all teams how EL arenas should look in future


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

PAO13 said:


> Panathinaikos will play their two first home games at Cyprus and Crete.
> 
> Iraklio - "Dio Aorakia" - 5.200


I thought the arena in Crete was extended to 7,000 capacity?


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

Aiwa said:


> Yes they sure is! I'm not saying that one or other is better, *these two arena are best in EL* and are perfect example to all teams how EL arenas should look in future


What about Kombank Arena?










What about Sinan Erdem Arena?










or Baskonia's arena?










I don't think the other two are all that much nicer or better.


What for example is even the difference from Fener's arena and CSKA's bigger arena? It's pretty much the same quality arena.










Same with Malaga's arena:










Pretty much the same. Unless we want to talk about the other amenities of the arenas, or the age. But I'm not sure that is all that important. I mean Olympiacos arena SEF probably has more amenities than any Euroleague arena by far, but that does not make it better for the court area.

I don't see much difference in any of those arena in the court areas.

Is there even any difference in quality with Real Madrid's arena?


----------



## Bori427 (Jan 6, 2007)

European arenas should be much better


----------



## ayanamikun (Feb 2, 2011)

Amerikanos, the hall in Heraklion has a capacity of 5.222, the extension you say is just the 1000 seats on the fold up tier which are accounted for already.


----------



## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

ayanamikun said:


> Amerikanos, the hall in Heraklion has a capacity of 5.222, the extension you say is just the 1000 seats on the fold up tier which are accounted for already.


It's odd, because when I went to a game there they said it had 7,500 attendance.


----------



## ayanamikun (Feb 2, 2011)

Amerikanos said:


> It's odd, because when I went to a game there they said it had 7,500 attendance.


And PAO admitted illegally 35,000 people inside OAKA, twice this season. So I am not so sure about that.


----------



## PAO13 (Sep 23, 2009)

Amerikanos said:


> It's odd, because when I went to a game there they said it had 7,500 attendance.


Just out of curiosity, which game was it?


----------



## Aiwa (May 8, 2005)

Amerikanos,
The Kombank Arena is good, although not such a good quality, seats, central TV screens e.t.c.
Sinan Erdem is also a good venue, but seating bowl is a little bit odd, probably because it was redone out of the athletic arena..
Baskonia arena with it's plastic seats simply does not fit state of the art arena definition, same as megasport arena Moscow. Malaga has very few VIP areas. and so on..
All these arenas are great, but imo does not fit quality of Fenerbache or Zalgiris arenas


----------



## delija90 (Jul 2, 2009)

Aiwa said:


> Amerikanos,
> The Kombank Arena is good, although not such a good quality, seats, central TV screens e.t.c.


Well,quality is just fine,seats are good,suites too but yes,there is no new jumbotron. Zalgiris Arena does have really nice interior but that is expected for arena that is 10 years younger than Kombank Arena ( almost 25. years if we consider the time when Kombank Arena was projected  ). Construction started back in 1989. It should be finished for basketball WC in 1994...And then we had ''some minor problems'' in our country.


----------



## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

Although this is a Eurocup arena, and not a Euroleague one, since Panionios which uses it for European games plays in Eurocup......

still I think this is an arena Olympiacos should use instead of SEF. They said before they wanted to put all the top tier seats back in and use it for their arena, but somehow it did not happen.

Anyway, it could be considered in best Euroleague arenas for sure if Olympiacos would use it. Panionios isn't a big enough club for this arena.




























The very good thing about this arena is that right next to it is a 5,000 seat arena that can also be used for basketball. So it would even come with a complete private training facility of highest quality for any club that was willing to pay for it.

The fencing hall on the left next to the main arena:










It is crazy to me that such facilities for basketball exist in Athens area and Olympiacos will still use SEF, even if SEF costs huge amounts of money to use and is more expensive to use than this other arena.


----------



## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Whats the average league attendances of the teams?


----------



## makimax (Jan 6, 2008)

Belgrade,02.01.2014 

Kombank arena - att 21.374 
Partizan-Real Madrid


----------



## endrity (Jun 20, 2009)

makimax said:


> Belgrade,02.01.2014
> 
> Kombank arena - att 21.374
> Partizan-Real Madrid


Great match this one, the arena was up for it all game long. Too bad Partizan really are no match for this RM team.


----------



## ic.architect (Dec 26, 2012)

Crvena Zvezda Telekom Belgrade broke Europe's single-game attendance record for an indoor basketball game Wednesday when 24,232 fans packed Kombank Arena to see the team face Budivelnik Kiev in Game 2 of the quarterfinals.:applause:


----------



## ayanamikun (Feb 2, 2011)

^ ?? PAO got fined 150k euro from euroleague for admitting 35k fans twice last year, and its funny cause it is the first post in this page....


----------



## alyssakit (Mar 24, 2014)

I would like seeing how far other nations are advancing in sport. It's obviously a new concept to some of the more meatheaded among my fellow Americans...


----------



## wojtek354 (Aug 3, 2013)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyFi95kglvY


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

ayanamikun said:


> ^ ?? PAO got fined 150k euro from euroleague for admitting 35k fans twice last year, and its funny cause it is the first post in this page....


Well, AEK Athens had 80,000 inside the arena attendance in the 1968 European Cup Winner's Cup final against Slavia Prague, with 40,000 more in attendance outside the gates.

So actually, none of these "records" are even real. They are all total nonsense. It's just more ways for advertising that the sport is doing good. Euroleague/Eurocup is finally catching on to the same marketing gimmicks and schemes that the NBA has been using for many years.


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## ayanamikun (Feb 2, 2011)

AEK record was done in Panathenaic Stadium, not the same with an indoor arena.


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

ayanamikun said:


> AEK record was done in Panathenaic Stadium, not the same with an indoor arena.


I don't see the word "indoor" specified in any of these records. They simply say "attendance".


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## iurruti24 (Feb 28, 2014)

Any new arena under construction? Or proposed?


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## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

iurruti24 said:


> Any new arena under construction? Or proposed?


Munich will get a new arena soon. But no detailed plans announced yet.

Red Bull will build a new Arena in Munich for their hockey Team "EHC Red Bull München" and Bayern Munich Basketball will play their home games in the arena too.

There were formal plans to open the Arena to the 2017/18 season, capacity will be 10000+.


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## iurruti24 (Feb 28, 2014)

Thanks  if you know something more write at the post please


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## syork (Oct 24, 2014)

*Two pics from the Euroleague Final Four 2014 played at the Forum Milan (May 16/18).*

The Mediolanum Forum has been modernized for the FF2014 (new court, displays and backboards).


----------



## syork (Oct 24, 2014)

At the moment I'm not able to post images while I'm a new user here (I've read about some limitations till post #10).


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## syork (Oct 24, 2014)

Three pics from the Euroleague Final Four 2014 played at the Forum Milan (May 16/18).

  

You can see the brand new court from Dalla Riva. You can find an interesting article with some pics of the setup at the following link: http://www.sportsfloorsparquet.com/portable-sports-parquet-dalla-riva-euroleague-final-four-milan/

The new basketball court is permanent (Olimpia Milano is still using it for season 2014/15, instead of the old red one) while backboards and displays were build on purpose.


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## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

This morning, the city council of Munich agreed to build a new 10.000 seater arena in the olympic park in Munich and startet the tender process.

The construction cost will be paid completely by Red Bull. So the new arena will be the home of two teams, EHC Red Bull München (icehockey) and FC Bayern München Basketball.

In Q1 of 2015, the old cycling arena will be teared down in order to build the new arena on this area of the Olympic Park, next to the Olympic Stadium.










http://www.abendzeitung-muenchen.de...all.33ffa841-2c38-4da4-a46e-089bcfb62ed2.html


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

Hello, Dear Friends,

Today I want to talk about Euroleague in future. Today I was thinking, how will look Euroleague arenas in future. 
I made a table with my opinion. In green are teams, which now have A license (I removed Unicaja and Anadolu Efes, because I think these teams are not deserve A license); in orange are teams, which in my opinion MUST to PLAY in Euroleague; in blue are teams, which can play in Euroleague, because cities or team have great arenas and showed good results in past; in red are cities, which can be interesting for Euroleague. What do You think, colleagues?


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## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

You forgot Bayern Munich, their new arena will be ready by 2017/18


----------



## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

Matze20111984 said:


> You forgot Bayern Munich, their new arena will be ready by 2017/18


Yes, I know, just I thinking, that Germany still not deserve 2 permamant places.


----------



## Guest (Jan 29, 2015)

From the perspective of revenue (broadcast, ticketing, and commercial), a second German team makes far more sense than a Lithuanian team. I understand that Lithuania has a strong tradition in basketball, but it's also small and relatively not as wealthy as many other European nations. I've only picked out Lithuania, but you could add Croatia, Slovenia, Serbia etc to that list. 

Munich on the other hand is one of the wealthiest regions in all of Europe. I agree with Matez I think Bayern Munich, considering they will also have a modern arena, is ideal. You also get a second team in the richest, and second most populous, European nation, which never hurts. Nations like Germany should have at least two franchises going forward.


----------



## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

5portsF4n said:


> From the perspective of revenue (broadcast, ticketing, and commercial), a second German team makes far more sense than a Lithuanian team. I understand that Lithuania has a strong tradition in basketball, but it's also small and relatively not as wealthy as many other European nations. I've only picked out Lithuania, but you could add Croatia, Slovenia, Serbia etc to that list.
> 
> Munich on the other hand is one of the wealthiest regions in all of Europe. I agree with Matez I think Bayern Munich, considering they will also have a modern arena, is ideal. You also get a second team in the richest, and second most populous, European nation, which never hurts. Nations like Germany should have at least two franchises going forward.


Well, I can agree that our national championship is nt very strong and we loss B license, but from this season we want to wake-up, and sponsors of Lithuanian league is like BEKO, Mercedes-Benz, Turkish Airlines, Bosca and etc. Our arenas is probably newest in Europe. At the moment we don't deserve 2nd place, but our level is improving. Germany is a perfect for Euroleague, but I can't agree, that Croatia and Slovenia have better results in ticketing. In some previous season Cedevita or Union Olimpija results in ticketing is terrible...


----------



## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

For me it is some kind of scandal that Zalgiris still has it's A licence. The debts they collected all those years should be a reason to cut them!

I know they have a huge tradition and a nice, modern Arena but the way they handled their business all those years is inacceptable!

I'm really happy that financial fair play will be enforced now! Not paying players on time, collecting huge amounts of debts,... this is inacceptable for professional sport and far away from fair competition!

For the business side, Germany has at least two teams (Bayern and Bamberg) who handle their business on a very stable and responsible way. Alba also makes progresses on that, although they still have lots of debts left (but always pay on time, so they could also be considered as relatively responsible).

I would also cut other teams who are not handling their business on a responsible way like Galatasaray or teams from balkan.


The most important "goal" always has to be, handling business without making big debts, losing lot of money. That's the onliest way to work sustainable and responsible.


If you can't afford a player who earns 1 million €, so don't sign him! (like Galatasaray did)


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

Matze20111984 said:


> For me it is some kind of scandal that Zalgiris still has it's A licence. The debts they collected all those years should be a reason to cut them!
> 
> I know they have a huge tradition and a nice, modern Arena but the way they handled their business all those years is inacceptable!
> 
> ...


Zalgiris situation is stable, yes we have debts from former owner, who left us alone, but we are paying debts. We have contracts with players by awarded payments. Zalgiris have the *2nd best Euroleague arena* (in previous season *1st* best arena), our attendance average in arena are *13163 *(in 11/12 season), *13475* (in 12/13 season), *9869* (in 13/14 season) and *10494* in this season. *If the talking about A licenses, so what here doing FC Barcelona and CSKA Moscow?? From 2012/13 season A license clubs MUST TO PLAY IN 10000 seats arena. Euroleague afraid of the big clubs? *Also, so what about for example about Manchester United??


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## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

jugensas said:


> Zalgiris situation is stable, yes we have debts from former owner, who left us alone, but we are paying debts. We have contracts with players by awarded payments. Zalgiris have the *2nd best Euroleague arena* (in previous season *1st* best arena), our attendance average in arena are *13163 *(in 11/12 season), *13475* (in 12/13 season), *9869* (in 13/14 season) and *10494* in this season. *If the talking about A licenses, so what here doing FC Barcelona and CSKA Moscow?? From 2012/13 season A license clubs MUST TO PLAY IN 10000 seats arena. Euroleague afraid of the big clubs? *Also, so what about for example about Manchester United??


CSKA moscow will move into their new arena soon, it is almost ready. Barcelona has a plan to build a new Arena.

Manchester United is not losing money, that was the difference. They have debts because of the share movement, but they are profitable, making big profits every year.

I don't care about an Arena when the team who plays their is losing money because they can't handle their balance sheet.

May be Zalgiris is now doing a good job on that, but the years before (not now), they should have lost the A licence (it's just my opinion, for me the financial stability is priority nr. 1)



And the situation of Zalgiris is a good example why financial fair paly is so important. Owners are not allowed to finance their teams with privat money any more, so they can't just say "i will leave now, handle your problems on your own". For me, having debts of unpaid player salaries is an absolut No Go!


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

Matze20111984 said:


> CSKA moscow will move into their new arena soon, it is almost ready. Barcelona has a plan to build a new Arena.
> 
> Manchester United is not losing money, that was the difference. They have debts because of the share movement, but they are profitable, making big profits every year.
> 
> ...


Barcelona will move just in *2020*!!!! Yes, I understand, that financial situation is priority, but it was not club guilt. It was guilt by former owner, who's made some financial crimes with his bank, and left us with debts, because his bank was the main sponsor.


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## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

jugensas said:


> Barcelona will move just in *2020*!!!! Yes, I understand, that financial situation is priority, but it was not club guilt. It was guilt by former owner, who's made some financial crimes with his bank, and left us with debts, because his bank was the main sponsor.


Of course it is a club guilt who went into that situation, beeing completely dependend on one person. That's what I am talking about, that is unserious business .

Teams need to have a balanced financial structure, earning money from Sponsors (several sponsor not just one big), ticket revenue, merchandising and TV/media rights, that's the only way to have a sustainable and stable franchise with risks that you can handle.


edit: Yeah Barcelona's arena will be ready 2020, but if they would have to, they could move now into the big arena in Barcelona. They have an arena with 10.000+, so if Euroleague tells them, they have to move to keep the A licence, they can do it easily


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

Matze20111984 said:


> Of course it is a club guilt who went into that situation, beeing completely dependend on one person. That's what I am talking about, that is unserious business .
> 
> Teams need to have a balanced financial structure, earning money from Sponsors (several sponsor not just one big), ticket revenue, merchandising and TV, that's the only way to have a sustainable and stable franchise with risks that you can handle.


well, we knew about that he is not serious person, but at that time he was our only chance to survive. Now, Zalgiris and Zalgirio arena are the same, with same staff. All profit of arena is going to the club, from this season Zalgiris himself making ticketing, so we are doing everything what we can.


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## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

jugensas said:


> well, we knew about that he is not serious person, but at that time he was our only chance to survive. Now, Zalgiris and Zalgirio arena are the same, with same staff. All profit of arena is going to the club, from this season Zalgiris himself making ticketing, so we are doing everything what we can.


That's why I said, I wouldn't cut them now, but I would have cut them the years before.

But you can see that there were some huge problems. You said that you needed him to survive, that *was* actually the main problem, the club got into a situation where they needed this single person to survive, so something must have gone extremely wrong to get into that situation.

Who I would cut immediately for not paying their players is Galatasaray!


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

Matze20111984 said:


> That's why I said, I wouldn't cut them now, but I would have cut them the years before.
> 
> But you can see that there were some huge problems. You said that you needed him to survive, that *was* actually the main problem, the club got into a situation where they needed this single person to survive, so something must have gone extremely wrong to get into that situation.
> 
> Who I would cut immediately for not paying their players is Galatasaray!


well, before him our debts was about from 0,86 till 1,45 million euros. He removed debts, but after him debts became about 6 million euros... Now our debts still are about 4,6 million euros... But we see the progress.


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## HB07 (Jul 9, 2014)

If Euroleague want to compete with NBA tomorrow, it should develop basket-ball in big Europeans cities (Paris, London, Munich,...).

But having two A-teams from Lithuania, doesn't make sense, this country is too small. It's like having 2 NBA franchises from Utah ^^


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## HB07 (Jul 9, 2014)

jugensas said:


> *If the talking about A licenses, so what here doing FC Barcelona and CSKA Moscow?? From 2012/13 season A license clubs MUST TO PLAY IN 10000 seats arena. *


*
You can't be serious with this ^^

you're speaking about one the biggest teams in Europe, which if they want can easily play in a +10k Arena in their cities.

Let's be serious, the 10k rule, should not be the only factor to upgrade the Euroleague to could catch with NBA. 

The average attendance of the league this season is ~7,000 let's start by thinking how to increase the attendance and to sell-out current arenas before thinking about the 10k rule.*


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2015)

HB07 said:


> If Euroleague want to compete with NBA tomorrow, it should develop basket-ball in big Europeans cities (Paris, London, Munich,...).
> 
> But having two A-teams from Lithuania, doesn't make sense, this country is too small. It's like having 2 NBA franchises from Utah ^^


True, but you cant create things out of thin air. London has hardly any basketball tradition. The only way London will watch basketball is if you put an NBA team there. 

Id also add that its a bit like having two teams from Iowa. Salt Lake at least has a million plus people.


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## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

HB07 said:


> You can't be serious with this ^^
> 
> you're speaking about one the biggest teams in Europe, which if they want can easily play in a +10k Arena in their cities.
> 
> ...


First Euroleague has to enforce the financial fair play rules to make sure, only serious and sustainable franchises compete against each other! Otherwise you will not have a fair and good competition!

Teams like Real and Barcelona spend millions of € without generating them in Basketball, they get their money from football. This will not be possible anymore with financial fair play. Same will happen with CSKA, they can't get all this money from one sponsor anymore.

Every team will have to document exactly how they generate their money and Euroleague will then check if the financial fair play rules are met!


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

HB07 said:


> You can't be serious with this ^^
> 
> you're speaking about one the biggest teams in Europe, which if they want can easily play in a +10k Arena in their cities.
> 
> ...



You said IF THEY WANT THEY CAN EASILY PLAY. Requirements are the same for all teams, and I don't care. Requirements are 10,000 seats arena and teams must to behave that! It's team problem, if team can't to attract fans in arena. Why Zalgiris, Crvena Zvezda, Fenerbache Ulker always have full arenas??
I agree, that Lithuania is small country, but not the country size or city population have a to be a factor, which teams have to play in Euroleague. Germany is huge country with growing level of basketball, but they still not deserve 2 places, while Lithuania have 3 strong teams. Neptunas in this debut season won 4/5 home games, Lietuvos Rytas is always good in EuroCup, about Zalgiris and this club awards know everyone. Spain and Turkey have to much A licenses. One of this license must to be for Serbia! We are not talking about 2 A licenses for Lithuania, we are saying that Lithuania deserve 2nd spot with B license.


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## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

jugensas said:


> You said IF THEY WANT THEY CAN EASILY PLAY. Requirements are the same for all teams, and I don't care. Requirements are 10,000 seats arena and teams must to behave that! It's team problem, if team can't to attract fans in arena. Why Zalgiris, Crvena Zvezda, Fenerbache Ulker always have full arenas??
> I agree, that Lithuania is small country, but not the country size or city population have a to be a factor, which teams have to play in Euroleague. Germany is huge country with growing level of basketball, but they still not deserve 2 places, while Lithuania have 3 strong teams. Neptunas in this debut season won 4/5 home games, Lietuvos Rytas is always good in EuroCup, about Zalgiris and this club awards know everyone. Spain and Turkey have to much A licenses. One of this license must to be for Serbia! We are not talking about 2 A licenses for Lithuania, we are saying that Lithuania deserve 2nd spot with B license.


Germany definitely deserves a fix 2nd spot in Euroleague!

In Germany we have 3 teams with Euroleague level, especially concerning the salary level. Three teams with 8+ million € of total budget, two of these teams with 12+ million € of total budget and rising.

On the country ranking of ULEB, Germany makes big steps forward and is currently on place 4 behind spain turkey and russia!

http://www.gigabasket.org/index.php...&round=Full+Season&week=all&league=Euroleague


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

Matze20111984 said:


> Germany definitely deserves a fix 2nd spot in Euroleague!
> 
> In Germany we have 3 teams with Euroleague level, especially concerning the salary level. Three teams with 8+ million € of total budget, two of these teams with 12+ million € of total budget and rising.
> 
> ...


I agree that Germany have good financial situation and level is growing very quickly, spectators numbers are very good, but at the moment I don;t think that Germany deserve 2nd spot. Yes, maybe deserve, but just B license, not 2 A licenses. Spain have too much A licenses, Unicaja doesn't show good attendance in many years in a row. Serbia must to have one A license. Germany have money, but how much Germany players do you know in TOP clubs? Not so much.... In NBA is shining just Dirk, it's legend, while we have two young players JV and D-Mo. So, I really happy with progress in Germany basketball, but at the moment they are not so important. Maybe after 2-3 years  That's just my opinion, so don't be angry for me


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## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

jugensas said:


> I agree that Germany have good financial situation and level is growing very quickly, spectators numbers are very good, but at the moment I don;t think that Germany deserve 2nd spot. Yes, maybe deserve, but just B license, not 2 A licenses. Spain have too much A licenses, Unicaja doesn't show good attendance in many years in a row. Serbia must to have one A license. Germany have money, but how much Germany players do you know in TOP clubs? Not so much.... In NBA is shining just Dirk, it's legend, while we have two young players JV and D-Mo. So, I really happy with progress in Germany basketball, but at the moment they are not so important. Maybe after 2-3 years  That's just my opinion, so don't be angry for me


Geran players in the USA have nothing to do with places in the Eurleague. In the Euroleague its about german teams/franchises not single players!

And by the way 😄 we also have two Players in the NBA, Nowitzki and Dennis Schröder.

I wasn't talking about A license, but we can start that  I don't like the A license porcedure, it's just bullshit!


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

Matze20111984 said:


> Geran players in the USA have nothing to do with places in the Eurleague. In the Euroleague its about german teams/franchises not single players!
> 
> And by the way 😄 we also have two Players in the NBA, Nowitzki and Dennis Schröder.
> 
> I wasn't talking about A license, but we can start that  I don't like the A license porcedure, it's just bullshit!


well, if we talking about country basketball level, so there is no doubt what is better. When we talking about clubs, German clubs can buy more expensive clubs, because country is bigger. 

For me will be perfect Euroleague with 32 teams, and for example 16 from these with A license.


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## SheLL (Dec 20, 2008)

jugensas said:


> You said IF THEY WANT THEY CAN EASILY PLAY. Requirements are the same for all teams, and I don't care. Requirements are 10,000 seats arena and teams must to behave that! It's team problem, if team can't to attract fans in arena. Why Zalgiris, Crvena Zvezda, Fenerbache Ulker always have full arenas??
> I agree, that Lithuania is small country, but not the country size or city population have a to be a factor, which teams have to play in Euroleague. Germany is huge country with growing level of basketball, but they still not deserve 2 places, while Lithuania have 3 strong teams. Neptunas in this debut season won 4/5 home games, Lietuvos Rytas is always good in EuroCup, about Zalgiris and this club awards know everyone. Spain and *Turkey have to much A licenses.* One of this license must to be for Serbia! We are not talking about 2 A licenses for Lithuania, we are saying that Lithuania deserve 2nd spot with B license.


Turkey has only two A-licenses and you think it's too much. Anadolu Efes and Fenerbahce Ulker, both are in top 5 in budget wise. Fenerbahce has one of the most modern arena and in most of the games, it is full ( although ticket prices not cheap, probably the most expensive all around of europe ). Title sponsor of Euroleague is a turkish company, one of main sponsor is Turkish company, one of global partners is a Turkish company, official media partner is a Turkish company. While Euroleague is getting too much benefits from Turkey due to interest in EL from public, you think 2 is too much for Turkey and your country deserves it. 
What you think indeed makes sense.


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## Herzeleid (Nov 3, 2005)

actually its Israel who deserves a 2 spot on the Euroleague, Maccabi its one of the greatest team in the european competition, and a team like Hapoel Jerusalem with a brand new 11,600 capacity arena and with a good basketball level as well can only do good to the Euroleague


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## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

Herzeleid said:


> actually its Israel who deserves a 2 spot on the Euroleague, Maccabi its one of the greatest team in the european competition, and a team like Hapoel Jerusalem with a brand new 11,600 capacity arena and with a good basketball level as well can only do good to the Euroleague


Hapoel Jerusalem finished last in it's Eurocup group and you want them in Euroleague, because they have a new big Arena?

They couldn't make it through the Euroleague qualification and completely disappointed in Eurocup. There is no chance, they now deserve a Euroleague spot!


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## Herzeleid (Nov 3, 2005)

Matze20111984 said:


> Hapoel Jerusalem finished last in it's Eurocup group and you want them in Euroleague, because they have a new big Arena?
> 
> They couldn't make it through the Euroleague qualification and completely disappointed in Eurocup. There is no chance, they now deserve a Euroleague spot!


any team can have a bad season...do you think teams like Dinamo Sassari or PGE Turów are better than Hapoel Jerusalem?


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## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

Herzeleid said:


> any team can have a bad season...do you think teams like Dinamo Sassari or PGE Turów are better than Hapoel Jerusalem?


Well at least Sassari plays in a much stronger league. Turow qualified as the champion of Poland, so they only hyve this one spot and not two!

Jerusalem is a Eurocup level team but not more yet!

Only because they got a new big arena, it doesn't make them a Euroleague level team!

There are many reasons, why Germany does get a fix second spot in Euroelague. 

- 3 Euroleague level teams with 8+ million € budgets (2 with 12+)
- good attendance numbers
- Germany as the most importand and biggest economy in Europe
- the home of Euroleague Sponsor Adidas
- Alba Berlin as a team with huge tradition, Bayern Munich as one of the biggest sports brands in the world
-


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

Come on, it's unfair when You saying, that some of clubs must to be in competition, because sponsors are from that country or city. It's unfair, because in compitition must to play the strongest teams, but not sponsors.
About Hapoel, sorry, but it's EuroCup level team.
About ALBA - now it;'s very strong team with amazing arena and good attendance, strong sponsors, but come on, for club is just 25 years and You are saying about huge traditions? 
As I said, Serbia must to have one A license from Spain, because Spain have to much.


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## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

jugensas said:


> Come on, it's unfair when You saying, that some of clubs must to be in competition, because sponsors are from that country or city. It's unfair, because in compitition must to play the strongest teams, but not sponsors.
> About Hapoel, sorry, but it's EuroCup level team.
> About ALBA - now it;'s very strong team with amazing arena and good attendance, strong sponsors, but come on, for club is just 25 years and You are saying about huge traditions?
> As I said, Serbia must to have one A license from Spain, because Spain have to much.


Serbia?

They don't even have a stable and sustainable franchise! 

Didn't you argue with modern arenas in Lithuania? Why can't I argue with sponsors?

By the way, I don't say that German teams itself have to be in Euroleague because of sponsors, the Euroleague wants them to be in the Euroleague because of the german economy. It's the biggest in Europe!

All over Europe NO team without a stable and sustainable basis deserves a A license, that's my opinion!


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

Matze20111984 said:


> Serbia?
> 
> They don't even have a stable and sustainable franchise!
> 
> ...


I recommended to You to see attendance in Serbia. That's my answer. In this season Crvena Zvezda at Kombank Arena have average of 16981. Yes for me Partizan is much deserve place than CZ, if we talking about awards. In general, in Europe are just 2 true basketball schools - Lithuania and Serbia (former Yugoslavia) Look at FIBA ranking - Lithuania are 3rd in WORLD, Serbia - 7th! Which are Germany? Answer - 18th. That's show true level. It's easy to have a money and buy some foreign players. It's not German basketball. About Lithuanian - I don't say, that we should be, because our arenas are new, which are true. If we talking about country population so our arenas is probably the best in all Europe - 3 millions people and 4 new 5000+ seats arenas and 2 with more than 10000 seats. I say, that in general Lithuanian basketball level is very high and just because we are small country we can not to save our best players in our national championship. Huge fact - in Europe are just 2 championships, which sponsor are Turkish Airlines - Euroleague and Lithuanian National Championsip (LKL). All championship games are broadcasting on internet. That's gives results - in last season first time from 1999, Final was different and without Zalgiris - Lrytas, because Lietuvos Rytas loss in semifinals. Our clubs budgets slowly increasing. Money is not the main reason why club must to be in Euroleague. Look, in 2010 when Partizan with one of the lowest budget was in Final 4! Look in 1999 when Zalgiris beat Kinder Bologna with huge budget. In strongest league must to play the best teams, and doesn't matter 3 or 30 millions budget they have. Financial situation and stability is good, but not the main reason. I am for 2 places for Germany, but just for 1 with A license. The same for Lithuania. We deserve that place. In Euroleague meeting of shareholdings, where all teams were with holdings and just only Lithuania was invited without that. Lithuania was one of the first country, which say YES for ULEB.


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## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

Financial stability is the basis of professional sports! There is no need to argue about that!

I don't care about 16.000 in attendance, when the team who is playing there, isn't paying its players on time, because they come to see fake competition!

I don't care if you have a 3 million budget or an 30 million budget as long as you only sign players you can afford! If you can't afford a player, don't sign him!

And by the way  in Germany all games are broadcasted as well, in HD and every game with a real TV production on site!


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

Matze20111984 said:


> Germany definitely deserves a fix 2nd spot in Euroleague!
> 
> In Germany we have 3 teams with Euroleague level, especially concerning the salary level. Three teams with 8+ million € of total budget, two of these teams with 12+ million € of total budget and rising.
> 
> ...


First of all, ULEB has nothing to do with Euroleague. ULEB is a union of domestic leagues that existed many years before Euroleague company did. It has nothing at all to do with Euroleague.

ULEB is actually related to Spanish League and actually it is always going against Euroleague and the people that run ULEB are really like some kind of anti Euroleague force trying always to work against it.

ULEB has nothing at all to do with Euroleague. It simply has a vote on Euroleague council. So I do not know why always some people in Europe keeps calling it "ULEB" or "ULEB Euroleague" because it has nothing at all to do with ULEB.

Also, that is not country ranking of Euroleague. That is that website's own rating of league's they see fit to make by their own criteria. It actually has nothing at all to do with the actual rating of the leagues by the actual real Euroleague.

Finally, if you want to talk about places being given by budgets of teams in a league, I really do not understand this logic at all?

So you are saying since two German teams has 12 million euro budget and once German team has 8 million euro budget that German league must have 3 places in Euroleague? REALLY?

*Have you seen budgets of teams in Russia?*

CSKA Moscow - 42.5 million euros
Khimky Moscow Region - 17 million euros
Lokomotiv Kuban - 14.5 million euros
UNICS Kazan - 11.5 million euros
Zenit St. Petersburg -10 million euros
Nizhny Novgorod - 7.5 million euros

You know how many teams Russia gets in Euroleague? Just two. They can get third team, depending on if they get a different team to finish 2nd in VTB League (Nizhny), and to win or make finals of Eurocup (UNICS), but Russia only gets 2 places. And actually, I think under new system of Euroleague, even 2nd place of VTB League might be taken away from them. But Germany should get three based on two teams with 12 million euro budget and one team with 8 million euro budget?

Even in Greek league there is,

Olympiacos - 17 million euros
Panathinaikos - 16 million euros
AEK Athens - 12 million euros

And yet, Greece also only has 2 teams in Euroleague. 

AEK has a big arena (20,000 capacity), play in a major European city, have a big fan base (about 1/4 of all of Greece, at least), and have a major history and tradition in European basketball, certainly much more than any German team by far. And they have been getting something like 6,000 to 7,000 fans a game this year even in Greek league. So imagine what they could get in attendance for Euroleague.

So using your logic, AEK Athens should right now be demanding a place in Euroleague.

I am sorry, but please be serious. Germany does not deserve 3 places. And if they get it, they certainly still do not deserve it.


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## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

Amerikanos said:


> *Have you seen budgets of teams in Russia?*
> 
> CSKA Moscow - 42.5 million euros
> Khimky Moscow Region - 17 million euros
> ...


I know that russian teams have high budgets, but the way they get to those budgets, that makes the difference. 

They have rich people or single big sponsors behind them who are relatied to the team.

This has nothing to do with financial fair play! And these teams will get in trouble when financial fair play is enforced because rich people or songle sponsors will no longer be allowed to spend huge amounts of money for their hobby!

I don't want to give german teams 3 spots only because of their amount of money they have. It is more the way they generate the money. They do it in a serious way without rich people behind who give the biggest amount of money, they generate it on the open market!

That's the difference. A team like Panathinaiko only exists because of its owner, who spends the bigest amount of the budget, that is no sustainable business and that's not what financial fair play is about!


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## netgear67 (Oct 28, 2010)

European basketball is a one big joke. Germany and basketball? Please, dont make me laugh. And yes, please add some club or two from England. It is all obout money and nothing else. 
Seriously, who gives a f... about Bayern in basketball? Give spots to great basketball nations like Lithuania, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia and Hercegovina.


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## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

netgear67 said:


> European basketball is a one big joke. Germany and basketball? Please, dont make me laugh. And yes, please add some club or two from England. It is all obout money and nothing else.
> Seriously, who gives a f... about Bayern in basketball? Give spots to great basketball nations like Lithuania, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia and Hercegovina.


Well I geuss more people give a F... about Bayern Basketball than in most other cities in Europa! More than 6000 people per home game give a f.....!

How about that in countries like Slovenia, Croatia, Lithuania,....


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Matze20111984 said:


> that's not what financial fair play is about!


But here isn't a financial fair play in Basketball?!?


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## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

www.sercan.de said:


> But here isn't a financial fair play in Basketball?!?


It will be enforced by the Euroleague next season!

http://www.spox.com/de/sport/usspor...-beim-shareholders-meeting-verabschiedet.html

http://www.euroleaguebasketball.net...d-approves-financial-fair-play-for-euroleague


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## Apuokas (Mar 1, 2014)

Matze20111984 said:


> How about that in countries like Slovenia, Croatia, Lithuania,....


When it comes to Lithuania then our clubs are among the leaders. This season Lithuania had 2 team the Euroleague:
1. Average attendance for Žalgiris Kaunas is 10,153 (in 2012–13 Euroleague season the average attendance was 13,425; this was the best result in the Euroleague).
2. Average attendance for Neptūnas Klaipėda is 5,470 (that's the max capacity of the arena they have in Klaipėda).

This season the biggest average attendance was during Crvena Zvezda Belgrade games: 14,483.


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## likasz (Sep 4, 2008)

Sorry for double posting* but its a new thing*:

http://www.merkur.de/sport/fcb-bask...allenprojekt-keine-einigung-bull-6157701.html
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/muenchen...aller-steigen-aus-hallenprojekt-aus-1.2880452

Basketball team of Bayern Munchen resigned from co-finacing a new arena in Munich and decided to expand Audi Dome from 6700 to 7800-8000 seats for b-ball. Although Red Bull is still capable to build the arena (mainly for it's hockey team) without Bayern.


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## pozinhossc (Oct 10, 2010)

More information about the new Euroleague format:

Official: BTV will get B-license (one year license) for the next three years. Plus 3 Eurocup places.

So the BTV champion will compete (unless it's CSKA which has A-license)

The same offer to ABA (Adriatic) league, but not decided between Euroleague and FIBA.


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

likasz said:


> Dear @Amerikanos!
> 
> There is no website which supports your claim that Mercedes-Benz Arena in Berlin has 14500 regular seats + 1500 VIP, media in b-ball config.
> 
> It's overall 14500 seats (13000 regular +1500 media and VIP seats).


It has 16,000 capacity in full. They simply don't count the non fan seats.

They don't consider anything that isn't a fan seat as a seat or a capacity. There is still 16,000 capacity though.

Or are you saying that when 14,500 seats for the fans are sold, something that often happens, that no one else is ever in the arena at any time during those games, other than just the people in the fan seats?

As an example, an NBA arena counts everyone in the arena in attendance, and also even counts season ticker holders as attendance that did not even show up at the arena.

Olympiacos had something like 8,000 season tickets sold, none of those is ever counted in attendance, but in NBA that's an automatic 8,000 attendance even in an entirely empty arena.

The point is, every locality counts capacity and attendance in their own way.

*Here is some info on Barca's new arena:*

http://www.eurohoops.net/featured/199833/the-new-jewel-of-barcelona

It will have a 12,000 capacity main hall (12,500 with temporary seating), a 2,000 capacity hall for the 2nd team, an 800 seat hockey rink, 24 VIP boxes, and also 4 sky bars and luxury lounges with a court view. It will also have an amphitheater mode availability.


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## pozinhossc (Oct 10, 2010)

New Barcelona "Palau" winning design: up to 12000 basket configuration:

































































source: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=204082&page=56


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

Amerikanos said:


> It has 16,000 capacity in full. They simply don't count the non fan seats.
> 
> They don't consider anything that isn't a fan seat as a seat or a capacity. There is still 16,000 capacity though.
> 
> ...



Sorry, but You're not true. I am very interesting about arenas and I talked with almost all Euroleague arenas owners or operators about official capacities including bars, VIP and etc. For example, Your Mercedes-Benz Arena in Berlin never had 16000 cap. for basketball. It was just Euroleague information, but it was not true. Capacity is 14500, in general Ulker Sports Arena have about 12500 vith VIP but officially it is 13000, and not 13800. The same with other arenas as I mentioned.


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## endrity (Jun 20, 2009)

So what's the deal now, are we going to have two European leagues again next year?


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

jugensas said:


> Sorry, but You're not true. I am very interesting about arenas and I talked with almost all Euroleague arenas owners or operators about official capacities including bars, VIP and etc. For example, Your Mercedes-Benz Arena in Berlin never had 16000 cap. for basketball. It was just Euroleague information, but it was not true. Capacity is 14500, in general Ulker Sports Arena have about 12500 vith VIP but officially it is 13000, and not 13800. The same with other arenas as I mentioned.


You have your figures and I have mine.



endrity said:


> So what's the deal now, are we going to have two European leagues again next year?


If you mean two European leagues, as in like when there was two first tier European leagues in 2000-01 season, like Euroleague (Euroleague Basketball) and SuproLeague (FIBA Europe), then no. There will not be.

There will just be Euroleague (first tier), Eurocup (2nd tier), and then Champions League (which is really 3rd tier for sure in level, but will call itself 1st tier or 2nd tier depending on different), and Europe Cup (which will be really fourth tier, but will call itself 2nd or 3rd tier).

There will not be a repeat of the 2000-01 season. Besides that, even back when there was SuproLeague, it wasn't really as good as Euroleague. I had 4 well known Euroleague clubs in it, but that was it. It was really almost like a 2nd tier competition itself. But it got credited with being a legit 1st tier, because it still the rights to the Euroleague Final Four.



*Galatasary is getting a new 15,000 seat arena:*

http://www.eurohoops.net/featured/2...e-construction-of-a-new-arena-for-galatasaray

That's a lot of Euroleague arenas in Istanbul.

The current arena of Efes and Galatasary

The new arena of Galatasaray

Sinan Erdem Dome (where Efes used to play)

Fener's arena

Darussafacka's arena


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

But the Arena of Darüşşafaka is small
VW Arena: 5,000








http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1863236

Abdi Ipekci Arena (12,270) is a legend in Turkey, but there aren't any suites.

IMO Sinan Erdem Dome will stay and they will demolish Abdi Ipekci


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

www.sercan.de said:


> But the Arena of Darüşşafaka is small
> VW Arena: 5,000
> 
> 
> ...



VW Arena has 5,240 capacity for basketball games. 

How can they demolish Abdi Ipecki when Efes still uses it as their home arena? Galatasaray is getting a new arena, but Efes still needs an arena. And Efes only payed one season at Sinan Erdem Dome, and then they never played their again. They seem to definitely prefer to play in Abdi Ipecki.


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Maybe the TFF will sell the Abdi Ipekci arena.


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

Owners of Olympiacos BC filed a request with the admin of SEF arena to let them add in over 2,100 new seats around the court area for next season.


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## likasz (Sep 4, 2008)

^^ so they gonna dig?


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

Hello, I still don't get asnwers from 2 arenas owners, but the official capacities of Euroleague arenas are (INCLUDING VIP loudges, boxes, media zone, courtside seats, restaurants ar etc.):

Anadolu Efes and Galatasaray Odeabank - Abdi Ipekci Arena - 11,300
Brose Baskets - Brose Arena - 6,222
Crvena Zvezda - Kombank Arena - 18,386
EA7 Emporio Armani - Mediolanum Forum - 12,331
FC Barcelona Lassa - Palau Blaugrana - 7,585
Fenerbahce - Ulker Sports Arena - 12,500
Laboral Kutxa - Fernando Buesa Arena - 15,504
Maccabi FOX - Menora Mivtachim Arena - 11,057
Olympiacos - Peace & Friendship Stadium - 11,270
Panathinaikos - Nikos Galis Olympic Indoor Hall - 18,800
Real - Barclaycard Center - 13,000
UNICS - Basket-Hall - 7,000
Zalgiris - Zalgirio Arena - 15,552


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

Hi. In 2009 I read the information, that Real Madrid will build 20,000 seats arena for plans in NBA Europe. Also, I read, that Malaga arena will be expended till 17,000 spectators. Also, I remember, that Olympiacos had to plans build ne 18,000 seats arena and Roma to build new 15,000 seats arena and Aris to build new 15700 seats venue. Also Montepaschi Siena with 11,000 seats arena. Maybe someone have informations now?


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## Demetrius (Aug 23, 2005)

jugensas said:


> Hi. In 2009 I read the information, that Real Madrid will build 20,000 seats arena for plans in NBA Europe. Also, I read, that Malaga arena will be expended till 17,000 spectators. Also, I remember, that Olympiacos had to plans build ne 18,000 seats arena and Roma to build new 15,000 seats arena and Aris to build new 15700 seats venue. Also Montepaschi Siena with 11,000 seats arena. Maybe someone have informations now?


Hello, I can tell you that Olympiacos has never had serious plans to build a new arena, as post-Olympic Athens was left with many indoor halls and there were plans to use the former Hellinikon arena, a venue that could seat up to 14,5K spectators. These plans were never realised, as both the team ownership and the fans favor to continue the use of Peace & Friendship Arena, as it nicely located in Pireus area and there is already so much history associated with this venue. In fact the owners of Olympiacos continue to struggle with the administrators of the Peace & Friendship Arena, who are public servants as the venue is state owned, in order to continusly upgrade it, both in terms of the quality of services offered and regarding the upgrade in seating capacity. SEF (arena's nickname) has enough space to easily accomodate at least 16K spectators with retractable-removable seating. Even more, I strongly believe that if a dense seating arrangement (à la NBA) was adopted, SEF could fit up to 18K spectators. But the administration of the stadium (public servants) would never agree as that would mean more work for them. If only there was a feasible way to have the arena being managed by the club, you could see a very modern and efficeint venue.


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## jugensas (Oct 7, 2008)

Demetrius said:


> Hello, I can tell you that Olympiacos has never had serious plans to build a new arena, as post-Olympic Athens was left with many indoor halls and there were plans to use the former Hellinikon arena, a venue that could seat up to 14,5K spectators. These plans were never realised, as both the team ownership and the fans favor to continue the use of Peace & Friendship Arena, as it nicely located in Pireus area and there is already so much history associated with this venue. In fact the owners of Olympiacos continue to struggle with the administrators of the Peace & Friendship Arena, who are public servants as the venue is state owned, in order to continusly upgrade it, both in terms of the quality of services offered and regarding the upgrade in seating capacity. SEF (arena's nickname) has enough space to easily accomodate at least 16K spectators with retractable-removable seating. Even more, I strongly believe that if a dense seating arrangement (à la NBA) was adopted, SEF could fit up to 18K spectators. But the administration of the stadium (public servants) would never agree as that would mean more work for them. If only there was a feasible way to have the arena being managed by the club, you could see a very modern and efficeint venue.


thanks a lot  but SEF is not very modern, without videocube, luxuries zones, chairs are old and from plastic, seats are very far from the the court. Hellenikon arena for me is even worse. Their own arena would be better for club.


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## Pireotis (Aug 27, 2010)

jugensas said:


> thanks a lot  but SEF is not very modern, without videocube, luxuries zones, chairs are old and from plastic, seats are very far from the the court. Hellenikon arena for me is even worse. Their own arena would be better for club.



Hellinikon is more like for basket ball. Olympiacos BC has asked SEF bod to allow them to put about 2000 seats near the parquet. If Greek State sells the stadium as they sell all the park near the stadium it would be great for Angelopoulos bros to buy the stadium. There are also a cafeteria which is now abandonned and inhabitied by homeless people.
Also there are a lot of exhibition spaces which can be used differently as they use it only 5 or 6 times per year. For sure under private management the stadium will be better.
Only by selling the name rights of the stadiums they can earn a lot of money.. i cannot understand why not even one stadium in Greece has no sponsor name!


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## pozinhossc (Oct 10, 2010)

jugensas said:


> Hi. In 2009 I read the information, that Real Madrid will build 20,000 seats arena for plans in NBA Europe. Also, I read, that Malaga arena will be expended till 17,000 spectators. Also, I remember, that Olympiacos had to plans build ne 18,000 seats arena and Roma to build new 15,000 seats arena and Aris to build new 15700 seats venue. Also Montepaschi Siena with 11,000 seats arena. Maybe someone have informations now?


Regarding spanish clubs:

-Real Madrid: may if ever a NBA Europe exist, a new pavillion could be in question...A big if...

They're quite happy with current situation with a downttown 15000 arena.

-Malaga: not in their best moment. They just lost their A license in Euroleague and a premise for renovation would be being a top european club (A license in Euroleague). Anyway 17000 for Malaga, in my opinion would be out of measure for the city.
I foresee that current arena will be more than enough, also considering that since a few years ago the got again the Malaga football club competition, missing in action for many years and focusing sport fans in basket.


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## stewe1981 (Dec 20, 2013)

Guys, basketball in Europe is very-very underpaid. Did you see what is happening this year that many players left for the NBA, knowing that they will probably play maximum 2-3 minutes in average? The amounts that european teams win (and pay) are a joke. Even the Euroleague title rewards the winner with a ridiculous prize.

There is no reason why teams should invest in new arenas... imagine that the most expensive team has a budget smaller than the amount that Bournemouth spend this year only for their transfers.

What I really don't know is if this the best that we can expect as fans from our teams, or if the people that run the sport (Euroleague, FIBA and team owners) are doing something extremely wrong.


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## brettstaats222 (Jan 7, 2015)

Does anyone have any Renders of the new Munich arena?


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## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

Amerikanos said:


> FC Bayern Munich's basketball section is going to remodel their old arena, and expand it to 10,000 capacity (the minimum capacity for the arena, if a club wants to get a EuroLeague contract).
> 
> http://www.eurohoops.net/bbl/383859/fc-bayern-munich-new-home-stadium-2019
> *
> FC Bayern Munich to have a new home stadium by 2019*


That news is actually not 100% correct.

They are not going to renovate the old velodrome. The old velodrome was already torn down a year ago.

They will build a completely new arena on the site where the velodrome once was


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

The new VTB Arena in Moscow is going to host 2019 EuroLeague Final Four.

http://www.eurohoops.net/featured/389298/moscow-host-euroleague-final-four-2019

*Moscow to host EuroLeague Final Four of 2019*


VTB indoor arena, in the basketball configuration: (capacity for basketball is said to be 13,400)


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## stewe1981 (Dec 20, 2013)

I never liked the ice-hockey compatible arenas. The first rows at the corners are not for watching a basketball game.


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

Galatasaray is also building a new EuroLeague arena. Construction will begin in March 2018. It will be next to Galatasaray's football stadium, and will also include a shopping mall and a club museum.

It will seat 12,750 people for basketball games.

http://www.eurohoops.net/en/euroleague/397567/galatasaray-building-new-arena/

*Galatasaray building a new arena*

*Ali Sami Yen Spor Kompleksi* (capacity for basketball games: 12,750):


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## Chevy114 (Jul 21, 2011)

Reminds me of those round college basketball arenas like TCU


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

AEK Athens basketball club, which is currently playing in FIBA Champions League, apparently has plans to build a new 12,000 seat arena specifically for the basketball section. They are trying to get approval to restructure the Athens Olympic Cycling Velodrome to do so.

Here is the Athens Velodrome now:










AEK wants to convert it to a 12,000 seat basketball arena.


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## PAO13 (Sep 23, 2009)

Amerikanos said:


> Galatasaray is also building a new EuroLeague arena. Construction will begin in March 2018. It will be next to Galatasaray's football stadium, and will also include a shopping mall and a club museum.
> 
> It will seat 12,750 people for basketball games.
> 
> ...


In my opinion it was a mistake to give Efes an A license, the team has an average attendance 4000 in this years Euroleague, which in my opinion should be a criteria. They would be better off giving a license to Galatasaray.


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## alexandru.mircea (May 18, 2011)

Amerikanos said:


> Which team? Monaco? That seems to be the most serious French team as of late, and it obviously is a club with a big name and brand.
> 
> However, they don't have the budget for EuroLeague, and they don't have the arena for EuroLeague.
> 
> ...


The municipality of Paris still wants to build up such a basketball mega-club, at least it said so on the record in the letter explaining why they stopped financing the Paris-Levallois club. Although if they really want to do so, they should build the new arena for it larger than 7k like it is currently planned (I saw somebody in this thread say that 10k is the minimum for the Euroleague).


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

alexandru.mircea said:


> The municipality of Paris still wants to build up such a basketball mega-club, at least it said so on the record in the letter explaining why they stopped financing the Paris-Levallois club. Although if they really want to do so, they should build the new arena for it larger than 7k like it is currently planned (I saw somebody in this thread say that 10k is the minimum for the Euroleague).


Yeah, you need a seat 10,000 arena to get the EuroLeague contract. That's why Barca had to build a new arena, and CSKA had to move to a different arena. It's probably also why teams like Bayern, Galatasaray and AEK are looking to build new arenas - because they want to get a EuroLeague contract.

Paris should be sensible and understand that, and make it a 10,000 arena. Otherwise, the club won't get a contract, which is a necessity to be competitive now in EuroLeague.


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## bongo-anders (Oct 26, 2008)

Why not play domestic games at this 7000 capacity arena and then play the big games at Bercy?


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## alexandru.mircea (May 18, 2011)

^ good point


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## dinamo_zagreb (Dec 23, 2011)

10k is a must for A-license clubs only. Zvezda - qualifying on merit - plays its games in 7k arena with some of them being played in huge 20k arena. Just like Kazan. Darušafaka - wild card team - plays in even smaller venue.


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## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

With the new Euroleague system, there are no A licences anymore.


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## Matze20111984 (May 27, 2009)

PAO13 said:


> In my opinion it was a mistake to give Efes an A license, the team has an average attendance 4000 in this years Euroleague, which in my opinion should be a criteria. They would be better off giving a license to Galatasaray.


Galatasaray definitely does NOT deserve an permanent spot in Euroleague.

This team does not pay their players on time, year and year again. Apart from that, their fans are responsible for riots and damages in foreign arenas every year.

In my opinion, they should be ejected fo several years from european competition!


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

Matze20111984 said:


> With the new Euroleague system, there are no A licences anymore.


There are contracts for 10 years now. You have to have a 10,000 arena for a contract.


Anyway, we never talked about Valencia Basket, which remodeled their arena.

Here is what their arena, *Pabellón Municipal Fuente San Luis "La Fonteta"* (capacity: 9,000), looks like now after the renovations:


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

This sounds like BS to me, but the owner of Greek League basketball club Aris Thessaloniki BC, Nikolaos Laskaris, has said that he has a 5 year plan to build a new NBA level arena for the club.


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

AEK basketball club is now trying to convert the Athens Main Tennis Center (capacity 8,600) into a 8,000 to 10,000 seat indoor basketball arena.


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

stewe1981 said:


> I never liked the ice-hockey compatible arenas. The first rows at the corners are not for watching a basketball game.


Its just a case of having good design. The Sprint Center in KC is great in both hockey and basketball mode and as I've watched both sports in person at that arena. It just looks like some of these European arenas are poorly designed.


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## Apuokas (Mar 1, 2014)

^^ Another good example could be Žalgirio Arena (Kaunas, Lithuania):


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## Chevy114 (Jul 21, 2011)

The tennis court idea reminds me of when the liberty played at the US open stadium:


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## Avangard-55 (Mar 12, 2014)

Apuokas said:


> ^^ Another good example could be Žalgirio Arena (Kaunas, Lithuania)


That Looks the same, like in Moscow.



I wouldn't say, that it Looks that bad, but of course the Arenas built specially for Basketball, look much better.


The Point with the european Arenas isn't that wrong. It is just so, that those Arenas are mostly constructed for hockey. And european hockey rinks are wider than in North America.


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## Apuokas (Mar 1, 2014)

Avangard-55 said:


> That Looks the same, like in Moscow.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Žalgiris Arena is a basketball first arena. As a matter of fact ice hockey is rarely played in there as this sport is not popular in Lithuania. The arena was designed and built for Eurobasket 2011. Now it is a home arena of Žalgiris basketball club. Recently it was named as the best Euroleague's arena:


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## Avangard-55 (Mar 12, 2014)

If this is a basketball first arena, it was made very bad. It doesn't look like an basketball first arena. In a normal basketball first arena a hockey rink, specially an european sized wouldn't fit in that good. This looks more like an multi-purpose arena.


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

Avangard-55 said:


> If this is a basketball first arena, it was made very bad. It doesn't look like an basketball first arena. In a normal basketball first arena a hockey rink, specially an european sized wouldn't fit in that good. This looks more like an multi-purpose arena.


It's a multi-purpose arena.

Here is a multi-purpose arena in Athens that was built for 2004 Olympics...one of the few arenas built with ability for multi-purpose to change to specific sport like basketball or handball and be basketball specific or handball specific, etc 100%. Maybe is the only one in Europe, at least it was at the time it was built...

maybe the only one, at least for ones with 15,000 or more capacity.










The blue seats would come out for handball, futsal, or whatever, and stay in for basketball.


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## pozinhossc (Oct 10, 2010)

*Martín Carpena Sport's Palace* will come back to Euroleague 2017-18 as Unicaja won yesterday the Eurocup.

Capacity: 11300


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

pozinhossc said:


> *Martín Carpena Sport's Palace* will come back to Euroleague 2017-18 as Unicaja won yesterday the Eurocup.
> 
> Capacity: 11300



When are they going to do the expansion project of this arena that was approved some years ago?


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## pozinhossc (Oct 10, 2010)

I'd guess that as long as Malaga lost it's A licence , the second phase is cancelled (unofficially as I found no info).


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## Avangard-55 (Mar 12, 2014)

Amerikanos said:


> It's a multi-purpose arena.


Yes, I know. That's waht I said. But its not basketball first.





Amerikanos said:


> Maybe is the only one in Europe, at least it was at the time it was built...
> 
> maybe the only one, at least for ones with 15,000 or more capacity.


Kombank-Arena in Belgrade, etc...

There are many others.


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## Apuokas (Mar 1, 2014)

Avangard-55 said:


> Yes, I know. That's waht I said. But its not basketball first.


What I meant was that Žalgiris arena is primarily used as a basketball arena. Technically it is of course a universal arena. The intention of my previous comment was to correct the overgeneralised statement of yours that it is an ice-hockey oriented/built for arena.


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

Avangard-55 said:


> Yes, I know. That's waht I said. But its not basketball first.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I mean the ones where the corners are not cut off from viewing. In Kombank the corners don't keep line of sight, so it is a multi purpose that does not form to pure basketball arena. Multi purpose that can be still pure basketball keeps line of sight straight all the way back the rows at the corners.


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

BC Khimki Moscow Region's new arena (capacity for basketball: 7,280):


*Arena Mytishchi*


*configured for ice hockey (capacity 7,000):*










*configured for basketball (capacity 7,280):*


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## PAO13 (Sep 23, 2009)

Amerikanos said:


> It's a multi-purpose arena.
> 
> Here is a multi-purpose arena in Athens that was built for 2004 Olympics...one of the few arenas built with ability for multi-purpose to change to specific sport like basketball or handball and be basketball specific or handball specific, etc 100%. Maybe is the only one in Europe, at least it was at the time it was built...
> 
> ...




Such a shame this arena isn't being used by anyone. I wish AEK was using it, instead if sharing OAKA with Panathinaikos.


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

PAO13 said:


> Such a shame this arena isn't being used by anyone. I wish AEK was using it, instead if sharing OAKA with Panathinaikos.


AEK is apparently moving into the Athens Tennis arena. It is planning to build a roof over it, and it will have capacity of 8,500 for tennis and 8,500 to 10,000 for basketball. It will be made multi-purpose so that tennis can still be used in it.










As for this Helliniko arena,










Olympiacos supposedly got the permission of the state, and won the bidding. So evidently they will take over Helliniko. It is planned to be remodeled and the interior and stands redone. The capacity will be about 12,000, and then Olympiacos BC will move into it, and they are also supposedly going to host a EuroLeague Final Four in it.

I guess then that some other Greek team will move into SEF.

Also, Nanterre 92 is trying to get a place in EuroCup, and maybe even in EuroLeague, with the availability of the new U Arena in their area. It can seat up to 15,800 people when configured for basketball games.










Here is video of a recent game played in the arena:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex0iFrWxgYw


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## pozinhossc (Oct 10, 2010)

Negociations for Valencia's new sport pavillions are almost closed. First image leaked:









image source: http://foros.acb.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=499265&start=760

100-150 mill.€
capacity: 15000.
Paid by Valencia Basket owner, land concesion for 50 years.
Already plans for 2012 Spanish Cup final four and there would already be talks with Euroleague to host the Final Four the same year

data source:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...412002420-ntvo.html+&cd=1&hl=es&ct=clnk&gl=es


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## Amerikanos (May 29, 2012)

Olympiacos basketball club will build a new 12,000 seat arena, and will move into it for the 2020-21 season.

http://www.sport24.gr/Basket/Omades...pedo-toy-olympiakou-sto-ellhniko.5235219.html


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## Apuokas (Mar 1, 2014)

Found on YouTube:


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## potiz81 (Aug 9, 2005)

Olympic Indoor Sports Arena in Athens is enormous and so iconic! A real gem for the european basketball.


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## PAO13 (Sep 23, 2009)

Indeed, I wish they would keep the lighting and scoreboard used at last season's FIBA Champions League Final 4 though


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## pozinhossc (Oct 10, 2010)

Valencia's Fuente de San Luis (La Fonteta), before and after inner renovation.
Shows what a simple colour change can make.

The third and Eurocup final match Valencia-Berlin will take place there next monday and could be again Euroleague arena in 2019-20 season:


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## pozinhossc (Oct 10, 2010)

Zenit St. Petersburg will play next season Euroleague for the first time.
Yubileyny Sports Palace (спортивный комплекс «Юбилейный»)
Capacity: 7044 for basketball









source: Alex 'Florstein' Fedorov wikipedia









source


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