# Shenzhen 2011. China's superstar boomtown



## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

71. Shennan East Road


72. Kingkey 100


73.


74.


75.


76.


77.


78. Upper part of Kingkey 100


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## binhai (Dec 22, 2006)

Where else did you visit in China? If you didn't visit already, next time you go to China you should visit Xiamen, it is beautiful, very developed, has great Chinese and European architecture, and is as close as it gets to paradise in Asia imo  Also you can visit northern China, Beijing and Tianjin, but the level of development is a little behind Shenzhen, at least for now


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## binhai (Dec 22, 2006)

Just the whole China southeast coast is fascinating, I would love to visit there sometime, it's like a whole nother country compared to my familiar part of China, different language, different urban environments, different culture, and surprisingly high amount of European heritage


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

BarbaricManchurian said:


> Where else did you visit in China? If you didn't visit already, next time you go to China you should visit Xiamen, it is beautiful, very developed, has great Chinese and European architecture, and is as close as it gets to paradise in Asia imo  Also you can visit northern China, Beijing and Tianjin, but the level of development is a little behind Shenzhen, at least for now


I know about Xiamen... and other cities. For now I have been only to Shenzhen and Guangzhou. But I'm thinking of next year when I should expand my geography of Chinese cities. I'm a little worried that my entire life may not be enough to actually see all the best cities and places in China.


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## Travis007 (Jul 19, 2004)

Great photo tour! From my experiences, I'm not too fond of Shenzhen. It lacks the character, history, and culture that Guangzhou has but the rapid growth is impressive.


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## Vanman (May 19, 2004)

Awesome thread! Shenzen looks much more green and clean than I would have expected.

Being a Vancouverite I was intrigued by this:



> OCT Real Estates Co. decided to renovate the industrial area by copying Vancouver’s loft zone. The company sent a team of experts to visit Vancouver to get ideas.


Do you have any idea if they are referring to Yaletown or Gastown? Both are neighborhoods in downtown Vancouver that have had many former industrial buildings converted to lofts and offices.


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## Nightsky (Sep 16, 2002)

Shenzhen looks absolutely amazing; clean and vibrant. Especially now with all the new supertall skyscrapers and it's nice to see there is a lot of greenery too!


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## Munwon (Dec 9, 2010)

I can't wait to go to Shenzhen in August!!!


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

Top one is a Hong Kong plate and the bottom black one is the Hong Kong-China cross-border plate.










The mainland plate has the call sign of Guangdong only on the left.


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

Continuing...

80. Shenzhen Stock Exchange


81. Near Shun Hing Square


82. 


83.


84.


85. Shun Hing Square


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

86.


87.


88. Underground pedestrian crossing


89.


90. Shun Hing Square



91. What I loved in SZ (same in Guangzhou, I think) was that at every crossroad there is a sign clearly saying the name of the street. Something that was missing in many cities that I have been to


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## thicken (Jan 29, 2009)

truly impressive


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## Geography (May 17, 2010)

>


I also like seeing so much green in an urban area. Not just a token tree along the sidewalk, but so many trees that it looks like skyscrapers in the jungle. They encourage pedestrian activity by shading the sidewalks and making it more picturesque.

I also have a thing for palm trees.


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## HKG (Aug 2, 2006)

Beautiful city, thanks for sharing!!


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

Very true about the trees and greenery. Trees can create a fantastic atmosphere if planted properly and taken care of. Shenzhen did a fantastic job here.


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## fragel (Jun 16, 2010)

nice travel log. It is great that you took so many pics of the city in less than two days. Shenzhen surely is well planned. YannSZ posted a few pics and videos he took in Shenzhen Urban Planning Simulation Room, and that is some amazing stuff. 

btw, by the itinerary you mentioned, you didn't take the HSR in Guangzhou, did you?


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

fragel said:


> nice travel log. It is great that you took so many pics of the city in less than two days. Shenzhen surely is well planned. YannSZ posted a few pics and videos he took in Shenzhen Urban Planning Simulation Room, and that is some amazing stuff.
> 
> btw, by the itinerary you mentioned, you didn't take the HSR in Guangzhou, did you?


Thanks 
I didn't take the HSR towards Wuhan because I realised that I only had 3 days in Guangzhou and there was so much to see... I guess I just didn't realise how actually big the city was and how long it takes to see the stuff. So just didn't want to miss out. And, of course, I didn't want to overspend too much.


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## YannSZ (Feb 5, 2009)

maxxam80 said:


> Just to add my 2 cents (I understand no one asked)
> 
> Having spent a lot of time in Guangdong province and Hong Kong - Shenzhen is not a particularly nice place. No cultural attractions, crime does occur (similar levels to London I would feel) and there are a lot lot nicer cities in China such as Chengdu.


This for me is an old cliché that Shenzhen is fighting now with a nice amount of success. There are actually more and more cultural things to see, more museum than before, opera, theatre, foreign orchestra, the all OCT loft part is full of architecture offices and design companies, Shenzhen offer great incentive for architects, artists and designers to settle there. More and more Hong Kongese artists are moving there too thanks to the low cost. They are transforming the all old industrial area into a nice cultural place.

There are tons of beautiful parks in Shenzhen

I'm french, I live in Shenzhen for 11 years and I have met with many people living in Hong Kong (Hong Kongese and foreigners) who have bad opinion of Shenzhen and when you ask them you realize that they've never put a foot in Shenzhen further than the Lowu Commercial Center to buy fake products.

One of the main reason I've stayed that long in Shenzhen is that every single week or month there is something new in Shenzhen that makes live more agreeable and easier.

And Pansori, thanks for the thread! It's a very nice publicity of Shenzhen. That's exactly what I like to hear, as it's a change of opinion thanks to real life experience.


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

Thanks, YannSZ... I have not realized how complicated and sometimes impossible it is to overcome stereotypes and prejudices which are especially fuelled by our Western media. Sometimes even direct and indisputable facts and evidence thrown into someone's face do not help and they stick to their "opinion" which is typically based on absolutely nothing. I am not particularly addressing this to anyone here but just recalling experiences from my own life. Therefore I feel a need to travel as much as I can and keep my mind open while trying to help others do the same. It's good to know things not from prejudices, BBC, CNN or some "experts" but just see it for yourself. That's the best way of knowing stuff.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

Many Westerners living in China are simply unaware of the bad things happening around them because of many factors :
1. criminals don't like to target non-Chinese foreigners because it causes a big stir with the embassy and the police are forced to take action afterwards; it's easy to target Hong Kongers as it will not cause the same level of government attention
2. Hong Kongers regularly visit the delta and hence are more likely to be exposed to crime
3. bad news at a local level are not high on the agenda among the international press and CCTV's English service

The events we hear on the news are indeed very real but often fall on deaf ears in the mainland. These include poisonous food laced with industrial chemicals, kidnappings for organs, pickpocket syndicates operating on buses and passengers don't help out when crime occurs, police incompetence that side with the criminals, etc. Shenzhen is a city of migrants, and people come in and go at ease. This lack of history and continuity also fuels crime, especially around the Chinese New Year when migrants try to hit it bring before they head back to their hometowns. This is not just a Shenzhen thing, but a common occurrence among many large Chinese cities.

While Shenzhen is not a Rio or Bogota, it is not exactly a safe place like Hong Kong or Tokyo either. I can understand Westerners who don't know the language or have fair access to the media would think it's a lovely garden city that seems much better than how we portray it otherwise. Would they be riding the buses and walking to their local wet market to truly experience local life? My answer to these perceptions is to learn the local language and try to reach out to multiple media sources for a more informed decision. Unfortunately, HK television is scrambled in the delta when sensitive topics appear.


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## fragel (Jun 16, 2010)

Pansori said:


> Thanks
> I didn't take the HSR towards Wuhan because I realised that I only had 3 days in Guangzhou and there was so much to see... I guess I just didn't realise how actually big the city was and how long it takes to see the stuff. So just didn't want to miss out. And, of course, I didn't want to overspend too much.


I can understand that, it isn't that important compared to seeing the city anyway. Guangzhou is surely bigger than Shenzhen and I personally found it more attractive than Shenzhen as well.


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## fragel (Jun 16, 2010)

hkskyline said:


> Many Westerners living in China are simply unaware of the bad things happening around them because of many factors :
> 1. criminals don't like to target non-Chinese foreigners because it causes a big stir with the embassy and the police are forced to take action afterwards; it's easy to target Hong Kongers as it will not cause the same level of government attention
> 2. Hong Kongers regularly visit the delta and hence are more likely to be exposed to crime
> 3. bad news at a local level are not high on the agenda among the international press and CCTV's English service
> ...


I kinda agree to most of what you said, but "kidnapping*s* for organs"? dude, I know there were cooked up internet rumors, but do you really believe this is true and as rampant as pickpocketing?

Shenzhen is far from perfect, just look at the urban villages where the migrant workers stay. In terms of crimes and safety, you just set the bar too high by using Hong Kong as benchmark.


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## YannSZ (Feb 5, 2009)

hkskyline said:


> Many Westerners living in China are simply unaware of the bad things happening around them because of many factors :
> 1. criminals don't like to target non-Chinese foreigners because it causes a big stir with the embassy and the police are forced to take action afterwards; it's easy to target Hong Kongers as it will not cause the same level of government attention
> 2. Hong Kongers regularly visit the delta and hence are more likely to be exposed to crime
> 3. bad news at a local level are not high on the agenda among the international press and CCTV's English service
> ...


There are true things in what you've written. But I'll give you my opinion as a foreigner living in Shenzhen for 10-11 years and who also have lived in Hong Kong in 2000 and 2004.

First of all, yes Hong Kong and Tokyo are of course extremely more safe than Shenzhen. As I always say, a hot naked lady could walk home at 3:00 AM in any place of Hong Kong without any trouble 

Then, I speak chinese, I ride buses often, I shop my vegetables and fruits in the very local market in my nearby "xiaoqu", I ride my bike pretty much everywhere in Shenzhen, I know Shenzhen very well, most of its sub-quarters, its main quarters etc. I know Shenzhen a lot more than 99% of Hong Kongese. I do long bike rides by day and by night too.

Then, yes foreigners are less a target in Shenzhen than other chinese or Hong Kongese.

But:

- I have always believed that Hong Kong was self feeding this fear about Shenzhen. It's in the interest of Hong Kong people and Hong Kong government that Shenzhen does not become too attractive. If it was considered extremely safe then Hong Kong would easily lose one part of its population in favor of Shenzhen. Living cost in Shenzhen (even if exchange rate between HKD and RMB has changed a lot) still remains lot lower than Hong kong especially for apartment rents (3 to 5x ratio).

- If some Hong Kongese are getting into troubles it's also due to the fact that some of them end up in not the best quarter for "entertainment". I live not far from HuangGang and FuTian border and I can tell you that a great deal of Hong Kongers head straight to XiaSha, ShangSha, ShuiWei for entertainment. Mainlanders know that they have money and they're easy to target. And some also don't really want their family or wife to know that they got robbed in Shenzhen as they were not supposed to be there in the first place 

- Listening to some Hong Kongese friends, colleagues, and foreign friends living in Hong Kong, there are always horrible stories about Shenzhen, but really most of them are just rumors that I believe are fake, you don't find these stories in South China Morning Post and they rarely have any proof, it's just word to mouth stories.

- Of course you can read horrible stories about things happening in China in some serious media but of course it's statically more likely to occur in a 1.35 billions inhabitant country than on a 6 millions territory such as Hong Kong. I remind you that last year there was this guys in MongKok that was throwing bottles of acid on crowded streets during couple of weeks.

- I would say that the biggest threat in Shenzhen is to have your bag, your purse or your mobile phone stolen if you're not careful. But that's a common things in most of major cities world wide. That's how we can easily spot Hong Kongers in Shenzhen, they are the ones with bag back carried on the front 

Anyways, I love Hong Kong and I love Shenzhen. I especially love the fact that the 2 cities share a common border and yet they are so different. I love things in Hong Kong that you can't find in Shenzhen, and I love things in Shenzhen that are missing in Hong Kong.


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## oliver999 (Aug 4, 2006)

Pansori said:


> Very true about the trees and greenery. Trees can create a fantastic atmosphere if planted properly and taken care of. Shenzhen did a fantastic job here.


i find hangzhou is very greean, nanjing is not bad too.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

fragel said:


> I kinda agree to most of what you said, but "kidnapping*s* for organs"? dude, I know there were cooked up internet rumors, but do you really believe this is true and as rampant as pickpocketing?
> 
> Shenzhen is far from perfect, just look at the urban villages where the migrant workers stay. In terms of crimes and safety, you just set the bar too high by using Hong Kong as benchmark.


These made it to the news as returning Hong Kongers seeking medical help was picked up by the media. It was apparently notorious in the toilets at the Lowu border crossing. Given all the weird economic crimes arising in recent years as people grew more capitalist and greedy, I'm not longer surprised.




YannSZ said:


> But:
> 
> - I have always believed that Hong Kong was self feeding this fear about Shenzhen. It's in the interest of Hong Kong people and Hong Kong government that Shenzhen does not become too attractive. If it was considered extremely safe then Hong Kong would easily lose one part of its population in favor of Shenzhen. Living cost in Shenzhen (even if exchange rate between HKD and RMB has changed a lot) still remains lot lower than Hong kong especially for apartment rents (3 to 5x ratio).
> 
> ...


I do agree Hong Kongers are a careful bunch and we tend to react very strongly against negative news, and it's not just Shenzhen, but any general bad news in particular (like the recent nuclear crisis in Japan). However, I have not doubted the authenticity of what has been reported by the media here especially when doctors and victims are interviewed. Besides, Hong Kongers are valid wealthy targets and it's not surprising the criminals go after them. SCMP is a Western and expat-focussed newspaper, and I have my doubts whether they'll send investigative reporters into China or cover such crimes which don't usually impact the expat. There are many other venerable Chinese-language newspaper publications that in general cover Hong Kong news far more comprehensively. In fact, even Chinese media is starting to pick up on some of these stories to warn the general population. We regularly see Chinese media clips on local TV here of pickpocket syndicates on crowded buses, factories mixing food with industrial chemicals, and the like. Don't think the SCMP or the BBC would be keen on picking these up unless it becomes a huge nationwide scare. Many of these events are localized, but seem to be repeating itself across many locations though. Lately, even bean sprouts have been found to be tainted.

I also don't think these are isolated incidents either. The melamine scare was nationwide, for example, and these types of things have become more frequent and widespread - statistically relevant. The fact that economic crimes are becoming more prevalent points to a shift in social values, something that even the heads in Beijing have spoke of lately as well - the need for more moral education. That clip made it to mainland and HK TV, but it was nowhere to be seen on CNN/BBC.


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## mylifesucks (Mar 9, 2011)

Just stating some interesting stories:

In the christmas holiday I was crossing the boarder from hong kong Lok Ma Chau to shenzhen huanggang port. It was a holiday and there were tons of people.

When waiting for the immigration in the Hong Kong side, MOST people (not everyone because there is always some stupid idiots) were waiting in the line patiently and there are SPACE between people. 

In the shenzhen side people were just pushing and cutting in lines, everything became chaotic and actually NO ONE cares about it at all. And people are basically touching each other. EWWW

That reminded me the much more horrible experience in the Shanghai Expo, when people roar at you if you don't let them to push in the line. They push you away with their sticky hands trying move in front of you, and the people at the back stick their XXXX to you.

However, although I haven't stayed in Shenzhen for a long time, shanghai gives me a better impression than shenzhen.


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

I have read many horrific stories on how rude and bad mannered people in Mainland China cities were. I was expecting the worst but I was actually surprised by how polite and considerate the people were. Of course not like in Singapore or Bangkok but the situation seems not really THAT bad even compared to Hong Kong or Macau. Of course there is still a difference but if I was a Hong konger perhaps I wouldn't jump too high about that. I'm seeing this from a perspective of a foreign tourist of course. I have not seen any queue jumping or any other particularly rude behavior. The only thing which is quite weird to me is that people are spitting everywhere... but I guess this is not really something to be particularly worried about.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

Shenzhen in general is far more spacious and green than HK. That's quite a good aspect of urban planning that has been well-captured by the photos here. However, there are certain pockets where it gets quite rough, such as Dongmen, and the area around Lowu. 

Shanghai Expo was a whole different story. I wonder if the main tourist attractions throughout China are also like that during a golden week rush.


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## CoCoMilk (Jul 9, 2009)

Pansori nice picture and commentary. 

Please do go on if u have more xD


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## HKG (Aug 2, 2006)

yeah,look at my signature


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

Time to carry on

92.


93.


94.


95. Shennan East Road


96. Shun Hing Square. There is an observation deck on the upper floors at the height of 298m which we are going to visit later


97.


98.


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

99. Heping Road towards Shenzhen Railway Station


100. 


101. 


102. Does anyone still remember VW Santana? In was discontinued in Europe in 1985 and continued as VW Passat until 1988... but that was not the end of Santana contrary to what Europeans might have thought. It is in production in China to this day and is most commonly used as a taxi or police car. Of course it has undergone some cosmetic facelifts but the body remains pretty much similar to the original 1981 model. It is going to be discontinued in 2012 though. The legend will finally die.



103. Train passing above the street on the elevated tracks from Shenzhen Station


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## YannSZ (Feb 5, 2009)

mylifesucks said:


> Just stating some interesting stories:
> 
> In the christmas holiday I was crossing the boarder from hong kong Lok Ma Chau to shenzhen huanggang port. It was a holiday and there were tons of people.
> 
> ...


You're right. Chinese people are not the most disciplined in terms of queuing ! But it's improving. And improvement is always good ! Before when people were cutting lines nobody cared, now people starts raising their voices which is good.


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

104.


105. 


106.


107. 


108.


109. Buick. I don't know why but Buick is quite a pupular car in China... can anyone explain that? I mean let's be honest, American cars are considered crap in Europe and most other places and for most part very much rightly so because American car production cannot compete with German or Japanese cars for efficiency, power, emissions, comfort, build quality, reliability and pretty much everything else.


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## fragel (Jun 16, 2010)

Pansori said:


> 109. Buick. I don't know why but Buick is quite a pupular car in China... can anyone explain that? I mean let's be honest, American cars are considered crap in Europe and most other places and for most part very much rightly so because American car production cannot compete with German or Japanese cars for efficiency, power, emissions, comfort, build quality, reliability and pretty much everything else.


Buick is the major brand Shanghai GM produces. It is the third best seller in China (after VW and Hyundai). Japanese brand cars made in China are shit.


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## NCT (Aug 14, 2009)

One of my pet hates about new urban developments in China is building entrances designed exclusively for people in chauffeur driven cars and pavements used so indiscriminately as car parks.

Thanks for all the high quality pictures though Pansori I'm amazed just like the others at just how many you took in such a short space of time!


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## greenlay (Jul 14, 2006)

The red taxi in the background is a BYD e6


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## dnh310 (Apr 26, 2010)

Pansori said:


> http://imgur.com/EMmDb


 
^^ This toer loos very interesting! :cheers2:


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

@NCT
I think urban planning is certainly NOT something to complain about in SZ... it's one of the best planned and I would say humane cities when it comes to pedestrian friendliness and environment. As about those entrances... isn't it the same in many places in _most_ cities (especially hotels)? I have never paid attention to this in Shenzhen or Guangzhou though, as it never caused me any problems.. it's quite common in Bangkok which is quite messy in the terms of planning. Still not something I would really "hate". What I really hate is lack of space for pedestrians and no open integrated pedestrian areas which is so typical to London where we both live. It was so refreshing to stroll in Shenzhen. All that openness and freedom just made me fall in love with it. Hence I managed to take quite a few pictures in quite a few places over a very short time. Thanks to extreme ease of navigation and walking due to good planning of the entire city. 

@greenlay
Thanks for the info. I didn't know that. Very interesting. How common are these cars in Chinese cities? Anyhow, this is just fantastic. Hope this will become a standard at least for taxis.

@dnh310
I'm usually not too fond of modern "authentic" Chinese architecture but Shun Hing Square has some appeal for some reason. Not that I absolutely love it but it's quite nice to look at.


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## NCT (Aug 14, 2009)

Pansori said:


> @NCT
> I think urban planning is certainly NOT something to complain about in SZ... it's one of the best planned and I would say humane cities when it comes to pedestrian friendliness and environment. As about those entrances... isn't it the same in many places in _most_ cities (especially hotels)? I have never paid attention to this in Shenzhen or Guangzhou though, as it never caused me any problems.. it's quite common in Bangkok which is quite messy in the terms of planning. Still not something I would really "hate". What I really hate is lack of space for pedestrians and no open integrated pedestrian areas which is so typical to London where we both live. It was so refreshing to stroll in Shenzhen. All that openness and freedom just made me fall in love with it. Hence I managed to take quite a few pictures in quite a few places over a very short time. Thanks to extreme ease of navigation and walking due to good planning of the entire city.


In my experience most city-centre offices and hotels in the UK don't have enough space at the entrances for a pick-up drop-off bay, so the main entrance is always one facing a restricted-access road, road with bus lane and/or red route, or a pedestrianised square. If you arrive by car you either expect to be dropped off at some side street or go into the dingy underground car par, so public transport + walking is always the best option, as opposed to when the most glamorous entrance is where pedestrians have to dodge all the chauffeur-driven cars. 

I'd say London is more pedestrian friendly. Yes it feels a bit cramped but the pedestrian almost always has priority, can cross the road literally wherever and everything is a 5-pace walk away. You wouldn't have to take a 10-minute detour to cross the road but you would if you took a car into London. It's seems like the other way round in Shenzhen.


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## Langur (Jan 3, 2008)

particlez said:


> contemporary pre-fab architecture can never have the perfect symmetry and proportions and detailing of the Taj Mahal. It doesn't mean contemporary pre-fab isn't worth the effort and is condemned to be second tier.


But cheap concrete pre-fab housing blocks are second tier (or rather fifth tier).


particlez said:


> Tokyo, Seoul, Hong Kong, etc. have a dearth of historicist architecture but still entice the tourist.


Actually Seoul and Tokyo attract remarkably few tourists, despite the fact that, unlike Shenzhen, they have a long, rich history and cultural life, and very sophisticated inhabitants. I personally love Tokyo, by the way. It's easily the greatest city in Asia. I haven't yet been to Seoul.


particlez said:


> Shenzhen has a LOT of talent in architecture and urban planning. The built environment in Shenzhen like elsewhere suffers from developer profit-seeking and limited budgets, but its planning is first rate and it does possess its share of architectural gems.


What are these architectural gems? Can you list some of them?


particlez said:


> The ironic thing is, the architecture trolls of the early 20th. century made similarly dismissive remarks about New York being trashy and devoid of culture. Architectural and social trolls in the very recent past made similarly dismissive comments about Hong Kong. The bad attitudes never seem to change, they'll just critique different upstarts.


Early C20th New York's attempts to mimic European styles were often vulgar. It's only when they pioneered new styles (skyscrapers and art deco) that American cities took their place in architectural history. Shenzhen has not pioneered anything thus far, so don't expect a restropective evaluation to suddenly find its current buildings remarkable. They won't.

Hong Kong's architectural portfolio is actually very thin when one considers individual buildings. There's only a scattering of world class buildings in the entire city. However the architectural world does acknowledge the value of buildings such as HSBC or Bank of China, which are major works of two Pritzker Prize-winning architects. Visitors also enjoy the views from the Peak over thousands of vertical high-rises, most of which are architecturally undistinguished when taken individually, but which form a magnificent panorama when mixed with the hills and islands, and also dignified by the aforementioned scattering of architecturally valuable buildings that rise above the crowd. Shenzhen has neither the natural setting of steep hills and islands, nor the sprinkling of superb individual buildings.


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## particlez (May 5, 2008)

Taipei Walker said:


> I used to live in Shenzhen back in 2008/2009, got used to it although it is not my cup of tea. Now I am back in Shenzhen every time I am in Guangzhou, last time just about 3 weeks ago, I still feel some interest in this place, always try to check some new areas, this time I went to Longgang district, I took the new metro line 3 which was partly open in Longgang district. The Shenzhen there is quite different from what we can see here
> 
> The city used to impress me back than, now it pales compare to Guangzhou. Shenzhen is probably the most polarized city in China, it really has 2 faces, the one we see here and the other being urban villages and industrial areas where the problems tend to concentrate. I guess even if someone lives there it is possible to avoid the problematic areas for years thus so different opinions about Shenzhen. But trying not to see Shenzhen's problematic areas doesn't mean they do not exist and there are no social problems on large scale. Large part of population in Shenzhen is floating population, migrant workers from other provinces who come and go; they are not easy to control especially in informal areas of urban villages where the problems concentrate.


If one were to rank the three large cities on the Eastern PRD in terms of comfort and ease of living, it would be Guangzhou/Shenzhen/Dongguan. I could write a bunch of stuff comparing present day worker organizing in China to 1900s America with Eugene Debs and Big Bill Haywood, but that would be way off scale here. 

If one were to apply the same standards to other cities, a visit to Midtown Manhattan would have to have an obligatory reference to the myriad social and economic ills afflicting the poorer areas of town.

At any rate, it's probably easier to compare Shenzhen to Hong Kong of ONE generation ago. They were both industrial centers transitioning into a more mature phase.


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## particlez (May 5, 2008)

Langur said:


> But cheap concrete pre-fab housing blocks are second tier (or rather fifth tier).Actually Seoul and Tokyo attract remarkably few tourists, despite the fact that, unlike Shenzhen, they have a long, rich history and cultural life, and very sophisticated inhabitants. I personally love Tokyo, by the way. It's easily the greatest city in Asia. I haven't yet been to Seoul.What are these architectural gems? Can you list some of them?Early C20th New York's attempts to mimic European styles were often vulgar. It's only when they pioneered new styles (skyscrapers and art deco) that American cities took their place in architectural history. Shenzhen has not pioneered anything thus far, so don't expect a restropective evaluation to suddenly find its current buildings remarkable. They won't.
> 
> Hong Kong's architectural portfolio is actually very thin when one considers individual buildings. There's only a scattering of world class buildings in the entire city. However the architectural world does acknowledge the value of buildings such as HSBC or Bank of China, which are major works of two Pritzker Prize-winning architects. Visitors also enjoy the views from the Peak over thousands of vertical high-rises, most of which are architecturally undistinguished when taken individually, but which form a magnificent panorama when mixed with the hills and islands, and also dignified by the aforementioned scattering of architecturally valuable buildings that rise above the crowd. Shenzhen has neither the natural setting of steep hills and islands, nor the sprinkling of superb individual buildings.


I could respond with the usual HATERZ GONNA HATE line. With you, it'd be apt. Six thousand odd posts? How many are devoted to bashing places you don't know or understand? How much time did it take? But since I'm avoiding Monday morning work, I'll expound a bit.

Apart from the usual technical stuff, one of the things they teach at architecture school is researching archives and learning architectural history. Having a sense of how supposedly "objective" things like aesthetic quality change with time or perspective helps one to appreciate things outside of the surface.

Most of Tokyo is brutalist/modernist. The climate, flattening it through earthquake, fire, and war was bound to have that impact. Yet you still saw past the concrete.

I'll address the New York claim. A century ago New York was newly rich and developing AND it was derided by the contemporary Eurosnobs. The Flatiron building had smashed records for office buildings, AND it was seen as some gauche expression of wealth in a city infamous for its poverty and exploitation. I glanced at an NYC architecture timeline and found the following skyscrapers built around 100 years ago: The Singer Building, the Met Life Tower, Penn Station, Bankers Trust, The Woolworth, and The Municipal Building. So in order, we have a bastardized Mansard roof, a copy of the Campanile, a copy of the Roman Baths of Caracalla, a copy of the Mausoleum of Halicarnassus, a bizarrely stretched Gothic Tower, and a copy of the Giralda. Do any of these buildings now strike you as vulgar? Mind you, while all these buildings are either fondly missed or recognized as beautiful today, the CONTEMPORARY Eurosnobs saw them as profit-driven, roughly built (steel frame construction =/= delicateness) and derivative of former classics. With your attitude, they'd be right. Btw, art deco originated in France and New York art deco was originally seen as second tier. 

New York was also infamous for the endless tenements on the Lower East Side, Brooklyn, Jersey City, etc. These slums were inhabited by restive immigrant workers and *overwhelmed* the small number of high brow buildings. You could look at the photography of Jacob Riis or read up on the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory to gain a perspective.

As for Hong Kong, one can say Hong Kong circa 1980 was similar to present day Shenzhen. Factories, factory workers, tabloid stories of blue collar crime, underdeveloped public transit, etc. The same smarmy criticism of Shenzhen today was said about Hong Kong a generation ago. Back then Hong Kong had already demolished most of its old buildings of architectural value, and put in place banal structures like the Landmark and the Prince's Building.

Now, if you want to see why Shenzhen should interest fans of architecture and urban planning, you should see how the city is laid out. It's planned around public transit and will allow the city to be traversed quickly and easily by subway, as opposed to developer-driven planning that builds greenfield single family homes and simply tells them to drive less and consume organic coffee. It's also putting in place something along the lines of Central/Grant Park along its axis between the train station and Civic Center. The Civic Center itself is an enticing Arata Isozaki design. There's the Shenzhen Library and Concert Hall. These things interest me from an academic point of view, as I can observe (or luckily sometimes participate in) their development. Even a cursory trip to the Shenzhen Planning Bureau "should" appeal to fans of architecture and urban planning.

But why should I bother? If you're going to have this attitude, you'll take pride in being dismissive and contemptuous.


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## Fabeiro (Feb 4, 2009)

:applause::applause:


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## Langur (Jan 3, 2008)

particlez said:


> I could respond with the usual HATERZ GONNA HATE line. With you, it'd be apt. Six thousand odd posts? How many are devoted to bashing places you don't know or understand? How much time did it take? ...But why should I bother? If you're going to have this attitude, you'll take pride in being dismissive and contemptuous.


Calm down dear... 


particlez said:


> Most of Tokyo is brutalist/modernist. The climate, flattening it through earthquake, fire, and war was bound to have that impact. Yet you still saw past the concrete.


I don't deny that Tokyo is concrete. Tokyo lacks in architecture compared to its Western rivals, which is perhaps surprising given Japan's superb sense of the aesthetic. However Tokyo does have a good number of excellent modern buildings, fabulous design, some lovely old temples and shrines, some charming neighbourhoods, exciting public spaces, a rich history and cultural life, and a very sophisticated population. Shenzhen has none of these things.


particlez said:


> I'll address the New York claim. A century ago New York was newly rich and developing AND it was derided by the contemporary Eurosnobs. The Flatiron building had smashed records for office buildings, AND it was seen as some gauche expression of wealth in a city infamous for its poverty and exploitation. I glanced at an NYC architecture timeline and found the following skyscrapers built around 100 years ago: The Singer Building, the Met Life Tower, Penn Station, Bankers Trust, The Woolworth, and The Municipal Building. So in order, we have a bastardized Mansard roof, a copy of the Campanile, a copy of the Roman Baths of Caracalla, a copy of the Mausoleum of Halicarnassus, a bizarrely stretched Gothic Tower, and a copy of the Giralda. Do any of these buildings now strike you as vulgar? Mind you, while all these buildings are either fondly missed or recognized as beautiful today, the CONTEMPORARY Eurosnobs saw them as profit-driven, roughly built (steel frame construction =/= delicateness) and derivative of former classics. With your attitude, they'd be right.


But they were right. New York's turn of the century mimicry of European styles - bastardised mansard roofs etc - was often vulgar, and still looks vulgar today. The Plaza Hotel is a prime example.

As an aside, since you think modern Shenzhen is no different from New York ~1910, then which of Shenzhen's current buildings would you personally select as destined to become as world reknowned and loved as the Flatiron Building? 


particlez said:


> Btw, art deco originated in France and New York art deco was originally seen as second tier.


The style originated in France, but proved more popular in the US, and is far more associated with American cities than French. It also continued to evolve, and what we think of today as Art Deco architecture is primarily an American style.


particlez said:


> As for Hong Kong, one can say Hong Kong circa 1980 was similar to present day Shenzhen. Factories, factory workers, tabloid stories of blue collar crime, underdeveloped public transit, etc. The same smarmy criticism of Shenzhen today was said about Hong Kong a generation ago. Back then Hong Kong had already demolished most of its old buildings of architectural value, and put in place banal structures like the Landmark and the Prince's Building.


I agree. Hong Kong in 1980 had little to recommend it architecturally. They'd destroyed most of the good old buildings, and had yet to build any good new stuff. And yes I would say the same of Shenzhen today, with the sole difference that Shenzhen never had any nice old stuff to begin with.


particlez said:


> Now, if you want to see why Shenzhen should interest fans of architecture and urban planning, you should see how the city is laid out. It's planned around public transit and will allow the city to be traversed quickly and easily by subway, as opposed to developer-driven planning that builds greenfield single family homes and simply tells them to drive less and consume organic coffee. It's also putting in place something along the lines of Central/Grant Park along its axis between the train station and Civic Center.... Even a cursory trip to the Shenzhen Planning Bureau "should" appeal to fans of architecture and urban planning.


Yes but the buildings and streets (what I was referring to) are almost all unattractive. The city as a whole is unappealing.


particlez said:


> The Civic Center itself is an enticing Arata Isozaki design. There's the Shenzhen Library and Concert Hall. These things interest me from an academic point of view, as I can observe (or luckily sometimes participate in) their development.


Thanks for your examples. I don't love it, and it's a bit C-list, but the complex shows a bit more effort than the utter dross in Pansori's photos. However this one complex is not enough to overturn my overall impression that Shenzhen architecture is very poor.


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

Guys, shall we NOT make this into a debate thread? How about sticking to photos and all the regular stuff? I think most of us have already expressed our opinions, hence no need to repeat them.


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## YannSZ (Feb 5, 2009)

^^ I think that's an interesting debate.
You send pictures, people comments and it's a good thread for anybody wanting to visit or even live in Shenzhen.


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## YannSZ (Feb 5, 2009)

Langur said:


> Hong Kong's architectural portfolio is actually very thin when one considers individual buildings. There's only a scattering of world class buildings in the entire city. However the architectural world does acknowledge the value of buildings such as HSBC or Bank of China, which are major works of two Pritzker Prize-winning architects. Visitors also enjoy the views from the Peak over thousands of vertical high-rises, most of which are architecturally undistinguished when taken individually, but which form a magnificent panorama when mixed with the hills and islands, and also dignified by the aforementioned scattering of architecturally valuable buildings that rise above the crowd. Shenzhen has neither the natural setting of steep hills and islands, nor the sprinkling of superb individual buildings.


There are worst panoramas that those from Shenzhen don't you think?


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

YannSZ said:


> ^^ I think that's an interesting debate.
> You send pictures, people comments and it's a good thread for anybody wanting to visit or even live in Shenzhen.


Oh sure, don't get me wrong. Actually I'm very interested in reading people's opinions. I've learned quite something in this very thread. I just want to make sure we all stay polite and don't start bashing and arguing just for the sake of doing that. I'm very happy to see people comment and engage into intelligent and reasoned discussion. Especially since my next trip to SZ is probably going to happen as soon as next year and will surely last longer than one day. :cheers:


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## YannSZ (Feb 5, 2009)

Langur said:


> Shenzhen has neither the natural setting of steep hills and islands, nor the sprinkling of superb individual buildings.


Here are some buildings that I personally think are of interest.

Shenzhen future stock exchange under construction (by OMA):
http://www.dezeen.com/2007/01/11/new-shenzhen-images-from-oma/

















Shenzhen Civic Center:









Shenzhen great horizontal Skyscraper by Steven Holl:
One of the winner of 2011 New York AIA design awards:
http://www.archdaily.com/133064/aia-new-york’s-2011-design-award-winners/


























Excellence Century Plaza, just finished:









Shenzhen DaMeiSha Sheraton:

















NanShan Stadium:


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## Langur (Jan 3, 2008)

@YannSZ
The panoramas you post are nice, but they all have Photoshop-enhanced sunsets and saturation, and the view only looks nice by night, when the ugliness of the building stock is obscured, and all you can see are lights.

The Nanshan Stadium will be genuinely special, I agree, though it's too far in the outskirts to contribute much to the city. I'm not excited by the others though. I can't see any beauty in the new Stock Exchange or Excellence Plaza.


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## oliver999 (Aug 4, 2006)

frankly speaking,from these pics,shenzhen is a little below my expection. the details of streets can be done much better(considering shenzhen is top rich city in china)


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

oliver999 said:


> frankly speaking,from these pics,shenzhen is a little below my expection. the details of streets can be done much better(considering shenzhen is top rich city in china)


I would disagree. The details of landscaping and building in Shenzhen are top-notch. Only city which genuinely compares or outperforms it from what I have personally seen is Singapore which is like 4 times wealthier and a developed and established city which it was for decades. Shenzhen's GDP per capita is something in the range of US$15,000 and if you compare it to most equivalents in terms of wealth you will see that it outperforms probably all of them them by a very large margin. That's my two cents on this.


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## YannSZ (Feb 5, 2009)

Langur said:


> @YannSZ
> The panoramas you post are nice, but they all have Photoshop-enhanced sunsets and saturation, and the view only looks nice by night, when the ugliness of the building stock is obscured, and all you can see are lights.
> 
> The Nanshan Stadium will be genuinely special, I agree, though it's too far in the outskirts to contribute much to the city. I'm not excited by the others though. I can't see any beauty in the new Stock Exchange or Excellence Plaza.


You're right about the photoshop-enhanced sunsets, but I just wanted to make a point in showing that it's not that far from Hong Kong Skyline. I surely can find some nice day light non photoshoped pictures of Shenzhen City. I took some. You can check in the link in my signature.

NanShan Stadium is not too far in the outskirts! Do you live in Shenzhen?
I love excellence plaza 4 towers, but this is personal.

Horizontal skyscraper is great, I love the Sheraton hotel from DaMeiSha.

But all this was to show that there are some diverse and interesting works of architectures in Shenzhen wether or not you like them. But they feature very distinctive shapes and interesting architectural features.


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

I think it would be a little foolish to claim that Shenzhen has nothing interesting in terms of architecture. It's obvious that it has. It's got the names of many famous architects and it's a newly purpose-built modern city with great planning, urban solutions and architecture to match. Of course noone's claiming it to be on par with Shanghai or NYC in terms of contemporary architecture of individual buildings. I guess we should give it a few more years for that and perhaps see what developments like Qianhai Water City will bring for us. But individual buildings are certainly not the sole criteria of evaluating of how good/bad a city is.

Again, judging by my personal experience I have been to very few cities where it felt more stress-free and relaxing from a perspective of a pedestrian. All cities have shortcomings, better and worse areas and things to be deservedly criticized. However it cannot be dismissed that Shenzhen is one of the great contemporary examples of urbanity, planning and simply a job done well once it comes to making it a nice place for people to walk, drive, use public transport or simply chill out. Next time I will try to explore the city more and dismiss such claims of my own if possible. Therefore I am very much open to any suggestions of what must be seen and done in order to get the "other" picture of the city. Of course I would expect such suggestions by those who actually know the city well.

Anyway, I shall continue with my pictures for now 

Views from Shun Hing Square which until very recently was the tallest skyscraper in Shenzhen now overtaken by Kingkey 100 tower

153.
The street below: Shennan East Rd. which becomes Shennan Avenue farther in the West and carries on for something like 20km crossing virtually the entire city


154. That small greenish highrise is Shenzhen Stock Exchange


155. View towards Luohu. This is the part of Shenzhen I didn't see


156.


157.


158. Kingkey 100. The 442m supertall nearing completion


159. Apartment blocks


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

160.


161. Border area and Hong Kong can be well seen


162. Shennan East Road


163.


164. Shenzhen Railway Station and Luohu border checkpoint with Hong Kong


165. 


166.


167.


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## deepblue01 (Oct 27, 2008)

^^ Depends what you are after really. Ive been to Shenzhen and they have some really nice buildings. not just shenzhen but many parts of guangzhou and guangdong province. What they don't have is an international media that constantly throw these images into our faces, hence why they aren't popular or well known, ie iconic. Many of their skyscrapers are really good.


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

168. 


169.


170. 


171.


172. 


173.


174.


175.


176. Shenzhen stadium, built in 1993


177.


189. Futian skyscrapers


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

Continued...

190. Kingkey 100 


191. 


192.


193. View towards Hong Kong


194. Shun Hing Square


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

195.



196. Shun Hing Square


197.


198.


199. Da Ju Yuan (Grand Theater) metro station nearby Shun Hing Square


200. Back in Futian CBD


201.


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## fragel (Jun 16, 2010)

It's well known for being pricey. You paid 80 yuan (for a 2nd class seat on CRH1) to travel 147km from Shenzhen to Guangzhou at top speed of 200 km/h. For comparison, to travel 169 km on Shanghai-Hangzhou HSR, a G-train 2nd class seat charges 82 yuan (on CRH380A, CRH3C or CRH2C etc) at top speed of 350km/h, and a D-train 2nd class seat charges 52 yuan at top speed of 250km/h. The high price is due to the fact that it is an early built ICL operated by a separate company.


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## YannSZ (Feb 5, 2009)

80 RMB - 8.75 euros in a confortable train for 120km is not expensive !
For almost the same distance.
Brussel is 264 km far from Paris and the cost of a one way ticket without discount in 2nd class is 90 euros = 823 RMB.
Twice the distance but tenth the fare...


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

I think the trains in China are very good value even if you consider that incomes are significantly lower than Western Europe or other locations which have sophisticated railway networks. Especially if you take into account the quality/price ratio.


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## fragel (Jun 16, 2010)

well, Guang-Shen ICL being the most expensive railway is discussed in context, that is, when compared to HSRs of highest standard in China. Other similar railways with higher standard(ballastless with longer curve radius) and higher speed(250km/h) only charges about 45 yuan for 147 km.

It is hard to say if the Chinese high speed trains are expensive or not without a reference. A direct comparison of ticket prices between China and other countries(especially Japan and European countries) will show that Chinese high speed trains are quite cheap to ride. For migrant workers making 2000-3000 yuan a month, then they are expensive but not unaffordable. There are also many travelers switch back to railway travel because of the introduction of high speed trains. The media tend to give the false impression that HSRs are unaffordable for most people. Even the busy and popular HSRs such as Shanghai-Hangzhou HSR were reported being 'white elephants' by some domestic and foreign media, yet they have to sell standing tickets in rush hours.


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## Taipei Walker (Mar 7, 2005)

Guang-Shen railway maybe expensive for Chinese standards but it is expensive for a reason, it is seriously overloaded. The trains are every 8 minutes and they are all full to the capacity, at least always when I take them  Another line is urgently needed.


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

Taipei Walker said:


> Guang-Shen railway maybe expensive for Chinese standards but it is expensive for a reason, it is seriously overloaded. The trains are every 8 minutes and they are all full to the capacity, at least always when I take them  Another line is urgently needed.


Isn't the new HK-Guangzhou express line opening in June?


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## Konta (Jun 10, 2010)

Hi all,I'd like to share my point of view as a local of Shenzhen..
In China,people would like to evaluate a city from "hardwares" and "softwares" .
Hardwares mean urban constructions like roads,metro,railways,high rises,parks,etc..Shenzhen owns an outstanding hardware not worse than any other city in mainland China.
Softwares refer to manner of people,some cultural things,cultural atmosphere etc..I disagree the opinion that Shenzhen is a culture desert.Shenzhen is a migrant city and people come from everywhere.It is people that should be the most important part of culture instead of architecture or a long history Since people are carriers of culture.I believe that people in Shenzhen will create our unique culture.
As some guys stated above,manner of people in Shenzhen is generally unsatisfying.It's common to see people jumping queue,spiting on the street,crossing the road when the light's red.China possesses such a huge population which makes it so hard for the education to catch up with the speed of development.That's the reason,I think.
Anyway,we'll do better,but it costs time.


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## Konta (Jun 10, 2010)

Pansori said:


> Isn't the new HK-Guangzhou express line opening in June?


GZ to SZ part of the line will open in Aug(which delays thanks to the tough construction of a 10000m long tunnel under water:nuts,while SZ to HK part will open after 2014.hno:


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

Konta said:


> GZ to SZ part of the line will open in Aug(which delays thanks to the tough construction of a 10000m long tunnel under water:nuts,while SZ to HK part will open after 2014.hno:


Is it due to the complicated construction work (tunnels and all that, including tunnell under nature reserve) in HK territory?




Konta said:


> Hi all,I'd like to share my point of view as a local of Shenzhen..
> In China,people would like to evaluate a city from "hardwares" and "softwares" .
> Hardwares mean urban constructions like roads,metro,railways,high rises,parks,etc..Shenzhen owns an outstanding hardware not worse than any other city in mainland China.
> Softwares refer to manner of people,some cultural things,cultural atmosphere etc..I disagree the opinion that Shenzhen is a culture desert.Shenzhen is a migrant city and people come from everywhere.It is people that should be the most important part of culture instead of architecture or a long history Since people are carriers of culture.I believe that people in Shenzhen will create our unique culture.
> ...


You are right here. However, I got a feeling that the authorities are very keen of "educating" people. I saw plenty of traffic officers who stay near pedestrian crossings during rush hours, metro staff assisting passengers, posters explaining about good manners etc.

I had a very interesting and nice experience in Shenzhen metro. I was standing at the ticket machina and trying to figure out which station I should go to. Then a station staff with uniform came to me and politely asked in English "do you need any help, sir?". I said I'm just trying to figure out the best station to go and that I'm ok. He then gave me a military style formal "salut" and went back to his routine. That must have been the best "passenger assistance" service I have ever seen. 
My point is that despite obvious insufficiencies in some areas people can learn very quickly and it probably won't take too long at least for the major Chinese cities to significantly improve the "software". In many areas seemingly it already has improved alot. For example, people in the metro are queuing up in the indicated places instead of just crowding around the doors when waiting for the train to come. Overall the situation in SZ and GZ metros was not much different from what I have seen in HK in terms of people's behavior. I think that's a very good start.


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## Konta (Jun 10, 2010)

Pansori said:


> Is it due to the complicated construction work (tunnels and all that, including tunnell under nature reserve) in HK territory?


That's one of the factors I think.And you know it would be quite difficult to remove things along the railway line in developed area like HK.






> You are right here. However, I got a feeling that the authorities are very keen of "educating" people. I saw plenty of traffic officers who stay near pedestrian crossings during rush hours, metro staff assisting passengers, posters explaining about good manners etc.
> 
> I had a very interesting and nice experience in Shenzhen metro. I was standing at the ticket machina and trying to figure out which station I should go to. Then a station staff with uniform came to me and politely asked in English "do you need any help, sir?". I said I'm just trying to figure out the best station to go and that I'm ok. He then gave me a military style formal "salut" and went back to his routine. That must have been the best "passenger assistance" service I have ever seen.
> My point is that despite obvious insufficiencies in some areas people can learn very quickly and it probably won't take too long at least for the major Chinese cities to significantly improve the "software". In many areas seemingly it already has improved alot. For example, people in the metro are queuing up in the indicated places instead of just crowding around the doors when waiting for the train to come. Overall the situation in SZ and GZ metros was not much different from what I have seen in HK in terms of people's behavior. I think that's a very good start.


Happy to hear you have had a good time in Shenzhen.
People will keep orderly when they're monitored,but they do not form a steady habit indeed,it still need more time.(Our young generations do better though) 
Just don't try to avoid others' crticisms since the fact is that our SZers perform worse than HKers.


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## CoCoMilk (Jul 9, 2009)

Nice photos Pansori and thanks for the commentaries


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## CoCoMilk (Jul 9, 2009)

And some here mentioned Shenzhen being dangerous?

Some opinions:


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## feverwin (Feb 25, 2006)

Just finish the thread, great photes and good debate!


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## aquablue (Mar 18, 2006)

I agree with Langur. Shenzhen looks very uninviting from these pictures. It appears as a sea of long highways, concrete blocks, and wide pavements, with a few stellar pieces of architecture and skyscrapers here and there. Maybe it's just me, but I'm tired of that type of urban planning, no matter how practical it may appear or how much greenery they've put in (and I love greenery) It just lacks humanity for me and I would tire very quickly of it if I had to walk down those wide highways everyday. Then again, I'm a fan of cities that have narrow streets, a mix of old and new, and a more intimate feeling about them.


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## S204 (Jun 12, 2011)

Nice pics Pansori. Have you been to Shekou?


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

S204 said:


> Nice pics Pansori. Have you been to Shekou?


No, I havent. As I mentioned I only had one day so I tried to stick to the main spots. I will do it next time. I think I'll try to dedicate ~3 full days for exploring more of SZ.


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## trimesh (Jun 7, 2011)

aquablue said:


> I agree with Langur. Shenzhen looks very uninviting from these pictures. It appears as a sea of long highways, concrete blocks, and wide pavements, with a few stellar pieces of architecture and skyscrapers here and there. Maybe it's just me, but I'm tired of that type of urban planning, no matter how practical it may appear or how much greenery they've put in (and I love greenery) It just lacks humanity for me and I would tire very quickly of it if I had to walk down those wide highways everyday. Then again, I'm a fan of cities that have narrow streets, a mix of old and new, and a more intimate feeling about them.


Well, there is very little old in a city that simply didn't exist 30 years ago - but I also think that those photos are not entirely an entirely accurate representation of the way this city is - they do a good job of representing the Futian CBD and the OCT area near shi jie zhi chuang, but that's very far from being the whole of SZ.

If I look out my window, I can see the DiWang building and the Kingkey 100 - but I can also see 3 of the old "urban villages" that formed the earliest phase of the development here - and there is a lot more living going on in them than there is in the skyscrapers. You could also look at a set of photos taken in Baoan and conclude, based on them, that SZ was mostly factories.

All I can say, based on actually living here for several years, is that the actual feel is far from as impersonal as you might think from the photos - although it has to be said that the SZ city government appears to have a plan that revolves far more on "face" than practicality (one example being the fact that they recently decided to ban electric bikes; presumably because they feel they look too tubaozi for the impression they want to project during the Universiade - never mind the fact that lots of companies use them for deliveries and the most likely effect will be to force even more people into those little minivans and give SZ's traffic the final kick it needs to go from slow moving to entirely gridlocked).

I've also got to say that I've never considered this place dangerous - there are some areas (dongmen and the area near lo wu come to mind) where you have to watch out of pickpockets, but I can't say I've ever been in a situation where I was worried for my personal safety.


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## Ribarca (Jan 28, 2005)

Interesting thread. Some awesome new architecture!

I must cross the border one day to go to Shenzen!


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

Ribarca said:


> Interesting thread. Some awesome new architecture!
> 
> I must cross the border one day to go to Shenzen!


Knowing your capabilities as a photographer I would be more than interested to see that happening!


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## ch1le (Jun 2, 2004)

Awesome thread


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