# BERLIN | Marx-Engels-Forum, Marien Quarter and Molkenmarket (historical center) - Redevelopment



## UrbanMyth (Apr 25, 2006)

I can not think of a more important project (from an urban design stand point) than the reconstitution of the historic center of Berlin. The post-war development of the center is anti-urban: a suburban office park dropped down into the historic core of one of the world's most significant cities. 

There may have been no viable alternative at the time, but it's well past time to restore the urban fabric of Berlin's Mitte! :cheers:


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## UrbanMyth (Apr 25, 2006)

Ludi said:


> *Braunfels*
> 
> ©braunfels architects
> 
> ...


Interesting (exciting) concept but I'm concerned that "the lake" would become a stagnant pond and giant trash receptacle for litter. 

I like that the city lake idea imitates the Engelbecken/Michaelkircheplatz area of Berlin that must have been one of the most elegant in Berlin when it was first developed...


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## Demolition Dan (Dec 17, 2007)

I've never understood why planners select a beautiful old area, and then fill it with gimmickry and cheap designs.

I'm not saying these plans for Berlin are that. But I think the epicentre should have reconstructions and maybe some top, top level ultra modern stuff.

Some of the new suggestions above look very spartan, sombre and done to a budget. Compare that to the old elegant stuff that was lost.

I always think of Birmingham in England. It had beautiful old stuff, but repalced it with gimmickry, cheap stuff that lasts 30yrs then is demolished. Really they should have reconstructed old stuff. And built impressive new stuff in a nearby location.


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## Ludi (Mar 21, 2007)

*The GHB (Gesellschaft Historisches Berlin - association for the historical Berlin) presents his plans*










Source: http://www.ghb-online.de/veranstaltungen.html

I hope we will get more information soon...

Some more old pics:










New Market in fromt of Marien Church with Luther memorial










view from the red cityhall



















Source: Landesarchiv Berlin / http://www.stadtbild-deutschland.org


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## Ludi (Mar 21, 2007)

*connecting between Museum Iland / historical boulevard Unter den Linden and modern Alexander Square*

In my opinion the ultimate ambition should be the connecting between Museum Iland / historical boulevard Unter den Linden and the modern Alexander Square.

They could reconstruct for example this cornerbuilding on the rightside and then behind some modern + new classic interpreted buildings getting more and more modern until the Alexander Square.


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## Ulpia-Serdica (Oct 24, 2011)

It would be so awesome if they rebuild these last 2 buildings


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## Ludi (Mar 21, 2007)

On the liftside they allread built a modern quarter..., maybe later. 










But the rightcorner building is more important anyway, because of the view from the main boulevard Unter den Linden and Museum Iland, because the course of the road makes a bend.


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## Ludi (Mar 21, 2007)

*Study 2014 by Bernd Albers*














































©Bernd Albers


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## Ulpia-Serdica (Oct 24, 2011)

I really hope that the reconstruction offers start as soon as possible. :cheers:


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## Ludi (Mar 21, 2007)

Some people also want to preserve the free, green area...



noisrevid said:


> Berlin by tom_stromer, on Flickr


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## Batavier (Aug 1, 2007)

Ludi said:


> ©Bernd Albers


This is a really nice design based on historical street patterns combined with urban density. 

Another positive development is that it might restart the public debate about rebuilding the Fischerinsel (southern part of the Spree Island) of which a lot survived the second world war but was demolished to build these flats. 









Source: wikimedia

Contemporary monuments (Ferhnsehnturm, Nicolaiviertel, Marx-Engels monument) are incorporated in the new study.

That brings me immediately to the part I am less enthusiastic about, that is the choice of the designer not to include demolishing various communist plattenbauten on the major streets. For instance these ones: 









Source:wikimedia

The modernist architects of communist Berlin, not only decided to demolish various historical buildings, they also decided to demolish existing urban patterns. The apartment buildings seen on the picture above where built diametrically to the pre-war urban grid, cutting off the Rosenstrasse and the northern part of the Klosterstasse of the rest of the city. In my humble opinion demolishing these apartment buildings is essential to reconstruction the urban grid.


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## Ludi (Mar 21, 2007)

View from Marstall










View from Dom










View from cityhall



















Source: http://www.berliner-historische-mitte.de/heiliggeistviertel.html


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## ELH (Jul 5, 2013)

UrbanMyth said:


> I can not think of a more important project (from an urban design stand point) than the reconstitution of the historic center of Berlin. The post-war development of the center is anti-urban: a suburban office park dropped down into the historic core of one of the world's most significant cities.
> 
> There may have been no viable alternative at the time, but it's well past time to restore the urban fabric of Berlin's Mitte! :cheers:


I agree. Walking over the Spree from Museumsinsel almost hurts. Even the relatively better post-reunification architecture are sorry replacements for the pre-war architecture. 

There are some of these places, like the entire city of Halberstadt, as example, where entering elicits noting but a sense of complete loss of something which was once great.

I am pro a re-urbanization of the eastern part of Berlins city center, but it should be done with very high requirements to architectural quality. The old city is lost, but the replacement should at least give a similar sense of satisfaction, if possible.

Better take the time an build slowly, than a fast but dissatisfactory development.


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

About the potential redevelopment of the Marien Quarter, is the Fernsehturm going to end up being demolished because of all the lowrise buildings to be developed within its grounds?


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## ThatOneGuy (Jan 13, 2012)

No way, it's a Berlin icon.


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

Also, it should be noted that as part of the redevelopment of Marien Quarter, some plans involve demolishing the Fernsehturm's lowrise portion for the new lowrise buildings. If that happens, then a (much) smaller lowrise portion will be built at the base of the Fernsehturm.


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## Ludi (Mar 21, 2007)

*Citizens' Dialogue on Berlin's historic city center*

_The historic city center around the Red City Hall to develop. What should be on the central and historically significant place in the middle of the city? The Senate has , in favor of the development of a master plan to which citizens are mitbeteiligt . The evening news shows which concepts are there and how public participation should work .

Urban Development Senator Andreas hostage promises an open-ended process . With experts , locals , interested people , quiet with tourists with children and young people. "Organizing is the interactive process " Zebralog " , an agency for citizen participation processes.

Our studio guest is Mary Brückner of " Zebralog "_

http://www.rbb-online.de/abendschau.../buergerdialog-berlins-historische-mitte.html


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## Ludi (Mar 21, 2007)

_One of the main east-west axes in the city to be narrowed and turned into a zigzag course. This year, the Senate will start the development plan process for the conversion of whey market in Mitte, said the new Minister for Urban Development and Environment, Andreas Geisel (SPD), during his annual press conference on Monday. "We want to transform the street space to gain construction areas." This affects the stretch of road Grunerstraße / mill dam. For motorists who travel between Alexander and Potsdamer Platz, this will have serious consequences.

From the Molkenmarket, large crossroads behind the Red City Hall, will be two nodes. Where cars are allowed to drive on a wide swath traffic straight since GDR times, they must turn in the future. The relocation and reduction of lanes space for the planned "Klosterviertel" is obtained - for new buildings with apartments, offices and shops._

http://www.berliner-zeitung.de/berl...ht-eine-neue-staufalle,10809148,29611018.html


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## Batavier (Aug 1, 2007)

Finally it is starting! It took a long time since the plans were announced and realisation.


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## Ludi (Mar 21, 2007)

_Welcome to the city of Berlin debate district "Mitte"-2015 !

The Berlin Mitte, the clearance between the television tower and Spree and between St. Mary's Church and the Berlin City Hall , is the last prominent downtown area , its use and design has not yet been posted . Be part of the Berlin Mitte to rediscover and tell you what is important for you here .

Start with us into the city debate : start on site on 18 April 2015. This allows us to better plan , we will be pleased if you sign up :_

http://stadtdebatte.berlin.de/#survey-results


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