# TURKEY | High Speed Rail



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Nice.
Which train control is used?


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

:cheers::yes:kay::applause::master:


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## harsh1802 (Apr 17, 2006)

Excellent!

Congrats Turkey!


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## hans280 (Jun 13, 2008)

Great!! It has been long awaited and now it has happened. In my personal view the new line that will eventually connect Ankara all the way to Istanbul is a neat, pragmatic solution: it cries to high heavens that the 50+ km south of Izmit are kept "in option" for future speed upgrades if the traffic takes off as they hope it will. 

Congratulations to our Turkish friends. - But, hey, with a Minister of Transportation by the name of Mr. Yilderim what would one expect but a new generation of very fast trains? :lol:


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## Micrav (Feb 19, 2008)

Who manufactures the cars?


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## Messi (Nov 18, 2007)

Which train control? Hmm I do not know much about that topic but is there a "euroean" system? If yes, I guess that's what they used.

Right now 10 spanish made CAF are used but the highspeed train factory in Sakarya is completed so Turkish Tuvasas and Korean Rotem will produce the KTX II in Sakarya which has a max. speed of 350 km/h and looks much sexier! :cheers:

Factory in Sakarya:









Korean KTX II:


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## Wazzup (Mar 13, 2009)

GO TURKEY !!!!


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## l'eau (Jul 7, 2008)

yay!!!:banana::banana:


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## Micrav (Feb 19, 2008)

Messi said:


> Korean KTX II:


Interesting train, first time I see. Could be double-deck like the french from which it is inspired obviously...


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## Wazzup (Mar 13, 2009)

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:


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## bluemeansgo (Oct 28, 2008)

255km / second???!!!!! Holy crap that's fast!


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## Wazzup (Mar 13, 2009)

^^

"s" means "saat" in turkish.And "saat" means "hour" in english


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## Spam King (May 14, 2008)

Messi said:


> Korean KTX II:


Is that for real? I thought the KTXII was a push-pull trainset, not an EMU


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## pcrail (Jan 10, 2009)

Messi said:


> Which train control?


There is ETCS Level 1 with cab signalisation in use. The contract was won by Alcatel. The signaling activities have been transferred to Thales, which executeted the contract. railwa-technology


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## Wazzup (Mar 13, 2009)

Turkish High Speed Lines


Current Status


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## Yattara (Jan 27, 2009)

nice :cheers:

I hope the new KTX II will built as soon as possible.It makes 100km/h difference between KTX II (350km/h) and CAF Trains (250km/h).High Speed Lines are built for a maximum speed of 350km/h.

Btw. When will be completed the part between Eskisehir to Istanbul ???


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## Chafford1 (Feb 17, 2008)

Yattara said:


> *High Speed Lines are built for a maximum speed of 350km/h.*


International Railway Journal says all 8 of the planned Turkish High Speed Lines are being built for *250* km/h operation.

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/sb/irj0109/#/20


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## Messi (Nov 18, 2007)

the record on the existing line is 303 km/h. I think 250 km/h is chosen because of efficienty reasons.

BTW Ankara-Sivas is u/c since last friday :cheers:


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## Wazzup (Mar 13, 2009)

Istanbul-Antalya in 4 hours .So it will be possible to make a short trip to the mediterran sea with train at weekends to relax and forget the big city and business life.


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## gincan (Feb 1, 2006)

Chafford1 said:


> International Railway Journal says all 8 of the planned Turkish High Speed Lines are being built for *250* km/h operation.
> 
> http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/sb/irj0109/#/20


Then they are contradicting their own data since it is impossible to cover 350km in 1h 15min running at 250km/h. 430km in 1h 45min is also impossible.


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## Samanyol (Jan 14, 2010)

Messi said:


> Btw Ankara-Konya highspeed line:


Ankara-Konya line is planned to open at the end of 2010 :cheers:


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## Baron Hirsch (Jan 31, 2009)

The graphic above is meant to elaborate what I wrote in reply to Hans about the YHT accident in Hasanbey and why the problem of switching from new to old rails before entering Eskisehir will disappear once works progress. We are presently in the middle stage of redevelopment, the bottom shows the tracks as they should appear once all works around Eskisehir have finished.

News on the Istanbul-Ankara line developments: 
# Electric wires have been activated on the missing stretch of high-speed track of 15 km between Sincan and Esenkent on the periphery of Ankara. Let us see how much longer it takes them to get this track into operation and thus reduce the travelling speed between Ankara and Eskisehir to the intended 1 hour 5 minutes or thereabouts. 
# It is announced that the last part of the Ankara-Istanbul rail corridor rebuilding will open for bidding end of this month. The 56 km east of the Istanbul city limits (Gebze-Köseköy) will be reconstructed mostly with EU money. Strictly speaking this is no longer high speed, as the line will only be increased to a speed of 160 km/h (enough to reduce traveling time from 39 to 24 mins.). As construction should start second half of this year and there is no difference to the present route, Istanbul will be completely cut off from rail for at least 2 1/2 years. Works are coordinated to coincide with the closing down of the commuter railways to Gebze and the destruction of the historical railway stations along this line (and the Halkali line).
So everyone take a last tour on the Gebze suburban railway (or take a spin through the Byzantine city from Yedikule to Sirkeci, one of the most spectacular urban railway lines I know), take some fotographs of the early 20th century stations such as Göztepe. We might never see any of this again.


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## Muhtar (Jan 31, 2010)




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## Muhtar (Jan 31, 2010)




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## raymay (Mar 7, 2010)




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## MakaWella (Aug 8, 2007)

According to the new at Mynet.com today (A summary)
http://haber.mynet.com/istanbul-antalya-arasi-4-saat-olacak-618169-guncel/

The Goal is to build new 9.978km High Speed Line and 4.997km conventional line in 2023.
Double rail line will increase from 9% to 50% and electrified rails from 26% to 60%..
The costs will be around 45 billion dollar. Edirne and Kars will be connected with each other over a line of 3.636km.. Ankara - Sivas will be 466km U/C .. 

Ankara - Yozgat will be 1,5h and Ankara Kayseri 2,5h.. Ankara and Istanbul both will be connected with Antalya.. Ankara - Antalya will take 2h45m and Istanbul - Antalya 4h


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## CIAM (Jan 27, 2011)

Bekir said:


> No Turkey will built Korean KTX II under licence.CAF Trains are too slow.The High Speed Lines are built for over 350 km/h.KTX II reaches 350 km/h
> 
> 
> 
> ...


CAF has new trains who are 350 km/h fast.


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## makita09 (Sep 8, 2009)

MakaWella said:


> and 4.997km *conventional* line in 2023.


Confessional is what Roman Catholics do in a wooden box with a Priest.


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## MakaWella (Aug 8, 2007)

^^ :lol: Sorry, my bad.. My English is not really good.. Thanks


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## MakaWella (Aug 8, 2007)

Bilecik part, pictures are almost 6-7 months old..


IMG_8407 by Fatih Sahin1, on Flickr


IMG_8416 by Fatih Sahin1, on Flickr


IMG_8422 by Fatih Sahin1, on Flickr


IMG_8425 by Fatih Sahin1, on Flickr


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## OwnTheNight (Mar 5, 2012)

Ankara-Konya High Speed Line


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## OwnTheNight (Mar 5, 2012)




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## OwnTheNight (Mar 5, 2012)

Hyundai Rotem

Hemu 400x (400km/h)


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## Pironi (Mar 19, 2012)

What's the speed record for Turkey? I mean there must have been some serious test drives by now.


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## Baron Hirsch (Jan 31, 2009)

Something like 270 on the Konya-Ankara line. The track can theoretically see faster traffic, as it is extremely straight, but at present there are only CAF sets in Turkey that can do up to 250 with passengers. Anyways at the moment the line is performing much under its projected operating speed. New train sets capable of 300 and the present construction of a separate track through the Ankara suburbs will hopefully improve things slightly.


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## hmmwv (Jul 19, 2006)

*Turkey, China mull $35 bln joint high-speed railway project*
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-277...-35-bln-joint-high-speed-railway-project.html

13 April 2012 / TODAY'S ZAMAN , İSTANBUL








Among other planned billion-dollar joint projects, Turkish and Chinese officials are now discussing building a high-speed railway line between the westernmost and the easternmost provinces of Turkey, Edirne and Kars, valued at $35 billion.
Turkish and Chinese officials explored a possible deal for the Edirne-Kars project during Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's visit to Beijing last week. The Akşam daily reported on Thursday the details of talks regarding the railway in an interview with Transportation Minister Binali Yıldırım.

Yıldırım was in China to accompany Erdoğan and a large group of businessmen, in the first visit on the prime ministerial level in 27 years to the East Asian country.

Endeavoring to create a market in European countries, China considers Turkey an area to promote itself with large-scale projects. With the planned connection of the Marmaray project under the Bosporus to the Edirne-Kars railway, a train line from China to Spain and England would be completed. This is a major reason behind China's strong interest in Edirne-Kars, eventually aiming to reach Europe via a railway line. İstanbul is currently connected to the European cities of Bucharest and Belgrade with the conventional railway line, the Bosporus-Europe Express. Observers argued this line could also be upgraded to high-speed following possible deals between the governments involved.

“Chinese officials are expecting the details of the Edirne-Kars project to become clearer. Chinese firms asked us whether it would be possible to split the Edirne-Kars high-speed line into separate projects between certain provinces so different contractors could bid for separate tenders. We [the government] are studying the possibility of offering separate tenders instead of asking one single company or venture to build the entire line,” Yıldırım explained.

The minister also indicated both sides discussed other projects in Turkey, including a third bridge over the Bosporus and Kanal İstanbul, during last week's visit in Beijing. “China is seriously interested in Turkish construction projects. The parties will meet in separate visits in the coming weeks to further elaborate on possible deals,” he noted. Turkey expects to attract as much foreign capital as possible for construction projects worth $80 billion for the next decade. Chinese firms that have a great deal of capital -- along with Gulf companies -- are on the Turkish government's radar in this regard. Turkish officials are in close contact with these investors in anticipation of coaxing as many of them as they can to part with their capital in Turkey.

Edirne-Kars, the country's largest railway project ever, was introduced in 2010. The line is designed to pass through 29 provinces, connecting the east and west of Turkey and reducing the duration of travel from the current 36 hours to 12. With the completion of the planned Edirne-Kars line, the total length of high-speed rail inside Turkey is expected to reach 10,000 kilometers by 2023. Under an agreement signed between China and Turkey in October 2010, China agreed to extend loans of $30 billion for the planned rail network. The Baku-Tbilisi-Kars (BTK) railway connecting Azerbaijan's capital city of Baku to Kars, currently under construction, increases the strategic importance of the Edirne-Kars line.

Economy Minister Zafer Çağlayan, who also participated in last week's China visit, on Thursday said in a written statement that he met with 27 of China's largest companies and that all of them expressed interest in projects in Turkey. “The executives of 27 Chinese firms with a total turnover of $465 billion said they would like to benefit from recently introduced government incentives for new investments in Turkey,” Çağlayan's statement read. Meanwhile, speaking to reporters in Beijing last week, Turkey's national flag carrier Turkish Airlines (THY) CEO Temel Kotil said Chinese involvement is also possible for a planned third airport in İstanbul. “The planned airport will have an annual passenger capacity of 120 million, making İstanbul the largest air travel hub in Europe, outpacing the 90-million passenger capacity of Frankfurt.

Three scenarios for Turkey's second nuke plant

In separate comments on Turkish-Chinese partnerships in new projects, Energy and Natural Resources Minister Taner Yıldız said on Friday in Ankara Turkey would hold official talks on construction of a nuclear power plant with Japan, South Korea and China.

Although he defined his visit to China as “fruitful,” Yıldız did not rule out the possibility of Japan or South Korea winning a tender for construction of a second nuclear plant. Turkey plans to build two power plants, one in Akkuyu on the Mediterranean coast and another in Sinop on the Black Sea coast. It made an agreement with a consortium led by state-controlled Russian builder Atomstroyexport to build Akkuyu. "We prefer the bidder country that offers the best deal," Yıldız said. He added officials from his ministry would visit China in the coming week to discuss details, adding that the nuclear power plant would be built in line with International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and EU standards.

Meanwhile, Yıldız said the government agreed to establish a new electricity generation plant in the Southeast, planning to sell electricity to Iraq's northern cities. “They will in return send us natural gas,” he noted. The minister did not give a specific timeline for the new plan.


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## krnboy1009 (Aug 9, 2011)

Woah, imagine that. High speed rail connecting Europe to east Asia.

That would take days but would still be awesome. High speed train sleeper cars!


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## MarcVD (Dec 1, 2008)

krnboy1009 said:


> Woah, imagine that. High speed rail connecting Europe to east Asia.
> 
> That would take days but would still be awesome. High speed train sleeper cars!


Yes, I just wonder what are their plans for the Caspian sea (look at the
map)... Bridge or tunnel ??? hno: :nuts:


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## krnboy1009 (Aug 9, 2011)

Why not go around the sea through Russia and Georgia?


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## MakaWella (Aug 8, 2007)

^^ thats indeed a difficult point. What can you do about it? tunnel or bridge is not possible.. Around Russia and Georgia is a possibility but that will cost a lot and will take a lot of time.. I don't know.. Via Iran ?.. hmm


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## makita09 (Sep 8, 2009)

krnboy1009 said:


> Why not go around the sea through Russia and Georgia?


You mean why go via the country that has High Speed railways instead of ones that don't?


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## Sunfuns (Mar 26, 2012)

All this Central Asian/Middle East section if it's to be built any time soon will have to be sponsored by Chinese. I don't think they want to go through Russia (no control) or Iran (same + unsafe). The line is mostly if not exclusively for freight so going over the sea is not that big of a problem.


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## MarcVD (Dec 1, 2008)

You mean, over a ferry operation, then ? Although this looks a bit old-
fashioned, why not ? Provided that the ferries provide enough capacity...
The ports of Baku and Turkmenbashi could certainly be developped to
support this. What are the usual weather conditions on the Caspian sea ?

If we want to stay on a pure ground operation, then Iran is probably the
only possible alternative. First of all it completely skips the unreliable
caucasus region, then Iran and China are much better friends than Russia
and China, and last it's shorter and uses much less border crossings. And
Iran is a country where there is a real will to develop railways.


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## Baron Hirsch (Jan 31, 2009)

The report by Zaman is a bit over-optimistic. If you read between the lines, or more detailed Turkish reports, the Turkish side actually got its knuckles whipped for not doing its homework properly. The Chinese side expected detailed planning already, while the Turkish government, in its typically over-enthusiased style, wanted to decide things first and plan later. Now Yildirim was sent home to develop proper plans which can actually be acted upon and not the rough drafts he came up with. Hopefully though things will develop in the end. Railways in this part of the world are in a critical stage. Either there will be major investments into reviving rail soon or airplanes for people and trucks for goods will be the only viable transport options left. Hopefully also the Chinese will strike a deal to integrate the Turkish corridor with Sofia and Budapest, as the EU has been not very forthcoming on major railway aid to its poorer members. 
About the eastern side, I hope they seriously aim to connect the HSR corridor to Iran. The connection to the Caucasus by itself is not economically viable, whereas train transport between these two large countries and possibly Pakistan, India beyond are much more likely to generate the necessary revenue to keep such monstrous projects from collapsing. And yes, peace is of course a necessary precondition on all sides concerned.


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## sekelsenmat (May 20, 2008)

Baron Hirsch said:


> Either there will be major investments into reviving rail soon or airplanes for people and trucks for goods will be the only viable transport options left. Hopefully also the Chinese will strike a deal to integrate the Turkish corridor with Sofia and Budapest, as the EU has been not very forthcoming on major railway aid to its poorer members.


There are many things in your statements which are not true:

1> Turkey from what I see is making a very strong railway investment already. I don't see how it can be said that they are not doing enough based only in this completely hipotetical and unrealistic China-Europe railroad. If there is any bottleneck it surely is not in Turkey. I doubt that the central asia and caucasus countries will invest in this railroad as it will surely cost a lot of money which they don't have.
2> EU makes massive railway investments in poorer countries. For example please see the map of EU-sponsored railway investments in Poland (red lines are under modernization and green ones are recently finished modernization projects): http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/7069/19stycznia2012.jpg
3> All cases that I know of railway investment not going as fast as it should in EU is not because EU is not willing to pay for it. It is because the countries in question are not willing to do their share of the project even when it is only 25% of the bill. Romania is a prime example as it invests only something like 10% of it's infrastructure budget in railways while the EU expectation is 40% for the railways. Many baltic countries also refuse to pay their share of Rail Baltica. So here is the true cause of lack of investment: Country governments highway obsession. I am 100% sure that the problem is not the EU because countries that are willing to make their part like Poland are taking billions and billions of euros of rail investment money. I think that the EU should start exclusively investing in railways, so countries which don't invest in rail would be punished by not getting transportation funds from the EU. Road building will happen with or without EU funds so no help is needed here.


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## Baron Hirsch (Jan 31, 2009)

Agree with you on most points. I was not thinking of Turkey. The ones not doing their homework in rail infrastructure or operations are Bulgaria, Greece, albania, and Serbia. I believe the Caucasus also does not have a good record in promoting railways.
Yes, there are some investments for example in Romania with large EU support and it not happening in other countries often has to do with mismanagement or greed of the governments concerned. However the EU refused to support the HSR from IStanbul to Bulgaria even though it is relatively cheap, easy to realize and is a necessary link between Turkey and the EU.
Spain once promoted rail priority in EU infrastructure support, but was overruled by the usual car lobby of the other states.


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## IanCleverly (Nov 24, 2010)

Hurriyet Daily News said:


> Turkey’s Forest and Waterworks Minister Veysel Eroğlu attended the signing of the 287 kilometer Ankara-Afyonkarahisar high speed rail project yesterday. This is the first phase of the larger İzmir-Ankara high speed rail project.
> 
> Afyonkarahisar, a western Anatolian province, is one of the world’s new hubs of thermal tourism, according to Eroğlu, and has taken its place as an important center for health and congress tourism as well. In terms of the number of five star hotels, it ranks fourth in Turkey, according to Eroğlu. The new Zafer Airport in Afyonkarahisar is scheduled to open on October 29, according to Eroğlu, and will facilitate the province’s thermal tourism.
> 
> ...


Full news story Here


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## Baron Hirsch (Jan 31, 2009)

Two corrections to that report there: the first ca 100 km of Ankara-Afyon are already built as part Ankara-Eskisehir and -Konya routes. The still to be constructed part is about 160 km in length. This is but the first and easiest of three phases of construction between Ankara and Izmir. Also, Eroglu is gracious when he says it presently takes 8-9 hours to travel between the cities. This is by road, by train it is 13.


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## TrueBulgarian (Jun 20, 2009)

Baron Hirsch said:


> Agree with you on most points. I was not thinking of Turkey. The ones not doing their homework in rail infrastructure or operations are Bulgaria, Greece, albania, and Serbia. I believe the Caucasus also does not have a good record in promoting railways.
> Yes, there are some investments for example in Romania with large EU support and it not happening in other countries often has to do with mismanagement or greed of the governments concerned. However the EU refused to support the HSR from IStanbul to Bulgaria even though it is relatively cheap, easy to realize and is a necessary link between Turkey and the EU.
> Spain once promoted rail priority in EU infrastructure support, but was overruled by the usual car lobby of the other states.


To be honest, the demand is just not enough. We still lack the basic infrastructure, so we need to use the EU funds for that. We just can't afford to build any HSR, due to the major costs associated with any such project. The whole budget for the Operational Programme on Transport for Bulgaria 2007-2013 is about 2 billion Euro, of which 1.8 are provided by the EU, the rest is the national share. That includes the funding for the new Sofia Metro sections, the Trakia, Maritsa, and Struma motorways, the renovation of the railways between Plovdiv and Svilengrad and Plovdiv and Burgas and numerous other smaller projects. Still, even if we upgrade all the major lines to 160 km/h (200 km/h with tilting trainsets) that will still be a major improvement to the current situation. It should happen by 2020-2025. If in the meantime the demands grows, then we might start talking about HSR. :cheers:


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## Baron Hirsch (Jan 31, 2009)

A 250 kmh train between Istanbul and Kapikule that then continues at 160 kmh would be a very good start. This would already take a very cohesive effort on the part of TCDD and BDZ. But the Chinese deals are very advantageous: the Chinese government has a huge money surplus, so they are offering credits at highly advantageous rates. Also while I realize Bulgaria has immense probelms wiht its infrastructure and does not know where to start, we should remember that CFR and TCDD did not look much better a few years ago. Now train travel in Romania is reliable, trains are reasonably new, and speeds are picking up. I think Bulgaria should be able to offer rail services on a simular standard, as the country has a GDP comparable to Romania and Turkey, if the ogvernment does nto believe it can solve all transport problems with new highways.


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## TrueBulgarian (Jun 20, 2009)

Baron Hirsch said:


> ...


Absolutely, however it would take a few years. Just to outline the current plan: The reconstruction and electrification of Plovdiv -> Svilengrad should be ready by 2014. Then it would take just about an hour and 15 minutes from the border to Plovdiv. The renovation of Plovdiv -> Burgas is also going ahead and should be ready by 2014, again for 160 km/h. The same goes for the first section of Sofia -> Plovdiv, from Septemvri -> Plovdiv. In the next programme period 2014-2020 they should finish the upgrade of Sofia -> Septemvri and start the renovations of Sofia -> Vidin and Sofia -> Dragoman at the border with Serbia. BDZ also planning on buying new rolling stock with EU funds, so there will be at least some improvement in the services in the coming years. :cheers:


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## Metsada (Oct 22, 2006)

Sunfuns said:


> I don't think they want to go through Russia (no control) or Iran (same + unsafe). The line is mostly if not exclusively for freight so going over the sea is not that big of a problem.


Small correction; Iran is not "unsafe" at all. Unless the criminals and thugs in Washington D.C. and Brussels keep destabilizing and threatening the country.


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## Silly_Walks (Aug 23, 2010)

Metsada said:


> Small correction; Iran is not "unsafe" at all. Unless the criminals and thugs in Washington D.C. and Brussels keep destabilizing and threatening the country.


I think Iran's internal problems are a bigger threat to its stability than "the criminals and thugs in Washington D.C. and Brussels".


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## Messi (Nov 18, 2007)

Finally!!! Today there has been a tender for the construction of a new high-speed station in Ankara.












> Ankara High Speed Train Station receives only one bid
> 
> 28 August 2012 16:40
> Project of General Directorate of State Railways of the Republic of Turkey (TCDD) for building of High Speed Train Station in capital Ankara has received only one bid.
> ...


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## Sopomon (Oct 2, 2010)

^^ Interesting design, reminds me of an ancient warship or a phalanx


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

Good luck with the Balkan section of that "high speed" line  (see last page)


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## foxmulder (Dec 1, 2007)

Design is huge letdown for me. It looks like grounded cruise ship.


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## moon993 (Oct 29, 2011)

That look like a type of vehicle from the future.


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Curren one is the red/brown one


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

Railway Gazette
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...nches-eskisehir-konya-high-speed-service.html



> *TCDD launches Eskisehir – Konya high speed service*
> 
> 28 March 2013
> 
> ...











http://www.hakimiyet.com/gundem/eskisehir-konya-yht-biletleri-tukendi-h46536.html









http://www.rayhaber.com/2013/konya-eskisehir-yht-seferlerini-basbakan-erdogan-baslatacak/


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

SIEMENS won tender for 6 train sets and 1 Simulator for the Eskisehir-Konya Highspeed Route with average 300 km/h speed


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Edil Arda said:


> General photos,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


---


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Edil Arda said:


> Ankara-Sivas,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


---


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

New Ankara station


Edil Arda said:


> Yeni Ankara Garı,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## SAS 16 (Apr 9, 2013)

When is the line between Istanbul and Eskisehir opening?


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Baron Hirsch said:


> Can't find the source anymore (one of Yildirim's speeches of the last months), but I remember the following dates (no guarantee, but if you believe Yildirim, you do not have a guarantee either):
> 
> 29 Oct 2013: Eskisehir-Istanbul (half-finished line)
> *2015: Eskisehir-Istanbul (fully operational)*
> ...


----


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## Kuvvaci (Jan 1, 2005)

new station looks impressive.


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## Edil Arda (Nov 14, 2012)

Gebze (İstanbul) - Eskişehir,








































































http://cdncms.zaman.com.tr


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## PhirgataZFs1694 (Feb 5, 2010)

How long and how tall is this viaduct? Is this the tallest and longest viaduct on the line?


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

It's always seemed strange to me that there's no really direct line which allows higher speed between Istanbul and Ankara. Is there some reason for that?


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## Theijs (Aug 15, 2012)

aquaticko said:


> Is there some reason for that?


The High Speed Line is currently being constructed.


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

^^So there will be two lines east from Istanbul: one veering down to Eskisehir and one going straight to Ankara?


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Turkey_High_Speed_Rail.png


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## Silly_Walks (Aug 23, 2010)

Theijs said:


> The High Speed Line is currently being constructed.


I think he was talking about a straight, more direct line from Istanbul to Ankara, not one that takes a detour down to Eskisehir and then back up again to Ankara.


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## stingstingsting (Jun 5, 2010)

I wondered that too for some time. And then I checked Google Maps terrain and saw mountains...

Sort of in the same vein, are the high speed lines engineered/future-proofed for >300km/h retrofit down the line?


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

@www.sercan.de

I saw that map before, but I just wondered, considering how much the line between Istanbul and Ankara veers down to the south, to pass through Eskisehir, how high a train's average speed could be between the two bigger cities. 

Most high speed lines which pass through multiple nationally-important cities go ~300kmh on very straight lines, and it seems strange to me to invest in a new high speed rail line not built to that sort of specification.

Was there a decision against this, during planning, for cost reasons, or is the volume of travel not expected to be great enough to necessitate that sort of layout?


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## Cadîr (Aug 20, 2010)

Ankara-Eskisehir is rather a flat highland (so it is Ankara-Konya, too), so connecting Istanbul to Eskisehir was seen as an affordable compromise to link Istanbul with Ankara. 

However, I'd like to see a separate only Istanbul-Ankara line, because there is huge demand. Sometimes the 3-lane highway is crowded, and there are dozens of flights each day between these cities.


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## aquaticko (Mar 15, 2011)

^^Thank you, that's the information I was looking for.


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## stingstingsting (Jun 5, 2010)

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/turkey-orders-siemens-velaro-high-speed-trainsets.html


> *Turkey orders Siemens Velaro high speed trainsets*
> 08 Jul 2013
> 
> TURKEY: National railway TCDD has placed an order for seven Velaro high speed trainsets, Siemens has confirmed. The contract is worth €285m, including seven years of maintenance by the manufacturer.
> ...


Interesting


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Erhan said:


> Osmaneli Hizli Tren Santiyesi
> 
> 
> 
> ...


---


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Vote for the design of the Siemens trains
http://www.tcdd.gov.tr/upload/Files/BannerFiles/anketyht.html

My fav


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## Kutsuit (Mar 2, 2011)

LastOfUs said:


>


Cute building.


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## Kutsuit (Mar 2, 2011)

www.sercan.de said:


> Vote for the design of the Siemens trains
> http://www.tcdd.gov.tr/upload/Files/BannerFiles/anketyht.html
> 
> My fav


Voted for it!


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

Edil Arda said:


> TCDD'nin Valero'su,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------


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## 3737 (Jul 1, 2009)

Siemens also sends a Vectron with the convoy for testing as well.








link


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## Edil Arda (Nov 14, 2012)

Classic TCDD colours shouldn't be change,


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## Cadîr (Aug 20, 2010)

trainrover said:


> Maybe the east's getting the first phase/s so that any encountered problem can be learned before tackling the west, a region that is probably under far more scrutiny
> 
> :dunno:


As far as I know, it's about a Chinese loan, to 'remake' the Silk Route once again, so there can be more flow of people and goods between China and Europe, East and West.

The Chinese I think are also funding some other railway projects in Serbia and Bulgaria...


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## Maisonette (Sep 22, 2013)

Siemens Velaro + Vectron on his way to Turkey ( here in Hungary towards Romania )






A special delivery to Turkey: 471 003 of DB Schenker Rail Romania is hauling a train from Hegyeshalom (H) toward Romania consisting of a Siemens Vectron MS locomotive no. 193 821 of Siemens Rail


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## Theijs (Aug 15, 2012)

Maisonette said:


> Siemens Velaro + Vectron on his way to Turkey consisting of a Siemens Vectron MS locomotive no. 193 821 of Siemens Rail


I assume the Vectron goes to Turkey to be tested on behalf of DB Schenker, as the TCDD just received its first E6800 from Hyundai Rotem / Skoda for testing!


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## Maisonette (Sep 22, 2013)

I think the trains must have arrived in Turkey now ( at least in Kapikule - Bordertown )

Siemens Velaro + Vectron in Budapest ( on his way to Turkey )


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## Maisonette (Sep 22, 2013)

Germany to Turkey

Siemens Velaro + Vectron in Bulgaria ( Dimitrovgrad )


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## foxmulder (Dec 1, 2007)

www.sercan.de said:


> Vote for the design of the Siemens trains
> http://www.tcdd.gov.tr/upload/Files/BannerFiles/anketyht.html
> 
> My fav


I like this livery, too. Nice one.


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## Maisonette (Sep 22, 2013)

The trains arrived in Turkey, but here a video in Komarom,Hungary on its way to Turkey.


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## Maisonette (Sep 22, 2013)

The Trains waiting now in Kapikule and will go over Muratli to Tekirdag. From Tekirdag with ferry ships to Bandirma and from there to Ankara :cheers:


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## Maisonette (Sep 22, 2013)

Second high-speed line from Ankara to Istanbul over 3rd Bosphorus Bridge is concluded.

*Ankara-Adapazari-Istanbul High Speed Line*


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## SAS 16 (Apr 9, 2013)

^^ As far as i knew they were opening direct link istambul ankara in 2015:shifty:
what is this then? can you explain please:?


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## Maisonette (Sep 22, 2013)

Southern line is from Ankara over Eskisehir to Istanbul.Opening should be in 2014. The other northern direct line is from Ankara over Adapazari to Istanbul ( connected with the 3rd Bosphorus Bridge ). Planning is concluded.


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## Maisonette (Sep 22, 2013)

The Siemens Velaro High Speed Train is waiting now in Tekirdag. On 10th Octobre it will move to Ankara from Bandirma.

The train will be used as test on Ankara-Konya route *with a highspeed of 350 km/h*

:cheers:


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## Baron Hirsch (Jan 31, 2009)

Crazy. When last I used the Konya HSL, there were still several places where trains slowed down to 160 kmh, although there were no curves or other obvious hinderances. Inofficial reports a while ago stated that these slow sections were due to insufficient substructure (soft underground) and the line would have to be closed down for months for improvement works before high speed could be achieved there. Under those circumstances it is useless to begin testing for 300 kmh or higher speeds on the okay sections.


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## hans280 (Jun 13, 2008)

Baron Hirsch said:


> Crazy. When last I used the Konya HSL, there were still several places where trains slowed down to 160 kmh, although there were no curves or other obvious hinderances. Inofficial reports a while ago stated that these slow sections were due to insufficient substructure (soft underground) and the line would have to be closed down for months for improvement works before high speed could be achieved there.


So, they ran into the same problem as the Spanish authorities? The last bit of the Madrid-Barcelona HSL (near Lleida) was hit by similar trouble. Apparently they had overestimated the resilience of the topsoil. Quite a bit of a scandal, with costly delays as a result. 



Baron Hirsch said:


> Under those circumstances it is useless to begin testing for 300 kmh or higher speeds on the okay sections.


Well, I suppose that testing for speeds around 350 indicates that they eventually wish to have the line approved for 320 km/h? I believe that it is customary to test new lines at 10% above the intended future top speed.


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## Baron Hirsch (Jan 31, 2009)

I often thought about it too. Quickest connection by rail and ferry nowadays would be to go Paris-Strasbourg-Stuttgart-Munich-Salzubrg-Vienna-Budapest-Arad-Timisoara-Bucharest-Constanta and fast ferry from there to Istanbul (which stopped operating in 2005). Paris-Strasbourg-Stuttgart-Munich is presently under development as HSR. East of there there are speeds of roughly 160 kmh until Budapest and the Romanian border. The route east of there is under development, maybe soon the way via Sighisoara rather than via Timisoara will be faster. While Beograd-Sofia-Edirne is geographically more direct, the poor state of railways in Serbia and Bulgaria make Romania & the Black Sea the more efficient route for the near future, if anybody would organize such a connection.


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## MarcVD (Dec 1, 2008)

Baron Hirsch said:


> I often thought about it too...


5 years ago I did Brussels-Köln-Munchen-Salzburg-Vienna-Budapest-Bucharest
Dimitrovgrad-Istanbul. It took me 2 days and 3 nights to do
this trip, with a few stops only. East of Vienna, this is desperately slow.
A memorable trip, but only for railfans.


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## Reivajar (Sep 3, 2003)

Anyway, even with a full high speed line, trips longer than 1000-1500 km are not competitive against plane. For making such a corridor feasible, traffic among intermediate cities needs to be important too. There would be a really low demand for a complete trip from Paris to Istambul by high speed rail. Yes, sort of luxurious trains, probably.


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## flypgs (Feb 23, 2014)

Test drive with Piri Reis Train of *Istanbul-Ankara* Highspeed Line.

Opening is in March 2014 :cheers:


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## Battuta (Feb 16, 2012)

flypgs said:


> Test drive with Piri Reis Train of *Istanbul-Ankara* Highspeed Line.
> 
> Opening is in March 2014 :cheers:


I will really open this spring? and also go through marmay ? 

How much time less it will take compared to the night train Istanbul-Ankara?


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## Baron Hirsch (Jan 31, 2009)

They are trying to make it by local elections on March 30, but there is much doubt whether the line is really ready and especially if it would not need more time for tests. 
Istanbul urban rail is presently being upgraded and therefore long-distance trains will terminate in a remote suburb (Pendik) until renovation is finished in summer 2015 or early 2016. Then YHT are scheduled to enter the Marmaray tunnel. Conventional trains used to take 6 to 7 hours. The trip from Ankara to Pendik is supposed to initially take 3 hours. After some missing sections of the HSR are finished it is supposed to take only 3 hours even into downtown Istanbul.


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## Battuta (Feb 16, 2012)

Baron Hirsch said:


> They are trying to make it by local elections on March 30, but there is much doubt whether the line is really ready and especially if it would not need more time for tests.
> Istanbul urban rail is presently being upgraded and therefore long-distance trains will terminate in a remote suburb (Pendik) until renovation is finished in summer 2015 or early 2016. Then YHT are scheduled to enter the Marmaray tunnel. Conventional trains used to take *6 to 7 hours.* The trip from Ankara to Pendik is supposed to initially take 3 hours. After some missing sections of the HSR are finished it is supposed to take only 3 hours even into downtown Istanbul.



7 hours it was too much before, i saw this cause i was preparing a trip with the actual night train 

Marmaray will be a verry good success,


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## Edil Arda (Nov 14, 2012)

too much but conventional trains are really comfortable.


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## ramakrishna1984 (Jun 21, 2013)

The Ankara-Istanbul project was one of the biggest to be implemented by Turkey's Ministry of Transportation. The main aim was for shorter journey times along with a fast, secure and safe way to travel away from roads.

Here are few images and complete information on Ankara-Istanbul High-Speed Train Project, Turkey


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## Battuta (Feb 16, 2012)

ramakrishna1984 said:


> The Ankara-Istanbul project was one of the biggest to be implemented by Turkey's Ministry of Transportation. The main aim was for shorter journey times along with a fast, secure and safe way to travel away from roads.
> 
> Here are few images and complete information on Ankara-Istanbul High-Speed Train Project, Turkey


+1

Thanks a lot Rama, it is indeed a huge project


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## Demir (Mar 4, 2014)

Can´t wait for Istanbul-Ankara High Speed Line :cheers:


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## billfranklin (Jan 28, 2007)

I think that Turkey is playing it smart with the Ankara-Istanbul project. The amount saved between a 300 km/h and 250 km/h speed limit in terms of right-of-way requirements is very significant (350 km/h IMO is more of an exercise of ego:sleepy

Costs increase exponentially which the rate of increase in price becoming more of a factor somewhere around 200 km/h, compared to 150 km/h.

If the line can be scheduled with levels of express, aka how the Japanese schedule the shinkansen, and, have high speed travel through stations, the difference between 250 and 300 km/h in the real world might be 30 or 45 minutes (the key, of course being average speed.)


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## Sunfuns (Mar 26, 2012)

The longer the line, the bigger is the difference between 250 km/h and 300 km/h.


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## Battuta (Feb 16, 2012)

ramakrishna1984 said:


> The Ankara-Istanbul project was one of the biggest to be implemented by Turkey's Ministry of Transportation. The main aim was for shorter journey times along with a fast, secure and safe way to travel away from roads.
> 
> Here are few images and complete information on Ankara-Istanbul High-Speed Train Project, Turkey



We can see in the link you added:


> TCDD divided the Ankara-Istanbul high-speed train project into two phases. The first involved the construction of a *251km (157 mile) section of fast line between Sincan and Inonu at a cost of $747m.*
> 
> http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/ankara-istanbul/



*747 M$ for 251 km that makes 2.15 M€/km* it is as affordable as the cost of Ankara-Konya HSR line if i remeber am i wrong? whow much was Konya-Ankara per km?


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## SerdarOrtac (Mar 16, 2014)




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## Battuta (Feb 16, 2012)

SerdarOrtac said:


>


Video published in March 15 2014, 

There is 2 trains runing in the same sens is it a test before prod step?


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## foxmulder (Dec 1, 2007)

I wished they went with balastless trucks and 350km/h standard but still good to see these projects turning into reality.


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## RTE (Mar 18, 2014)

There is another line planned from Ankara to Istanbul with 350 km / h speed. This line will be more direct.


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## Silly_Walks (Aug 23, 2010)

RTE said:


> There is another line planned from Ankara to Istanbul with 350 km / h speed. This line will be more direct.


Has construction started yet on this line? When should it be completed?
Thank you


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## Baron Hirsch (Jan 31, 2009)

It was actually started in the 80s.
As you might notice on a map, the present Ankara-Istanbul line detours via Eskisehir. Construction began for a direttissimo line along while ago, but funding evaporated, so now there are a few tunnels somewhere West of Sincan in the mountains. The terrain along the direct route between Sincan and Adapazari is extremely mountainous, so construction is difficult and expensive, at 300+ kmh, it is believed to cost 10 billion USD. Recently the plan for the diretissimo was revived for a planned cooperation with Chinese capital. Although a deal was signed and the Chinese were intrested in this, Turkey's busiest intercity route, the Chinese rejected initial planning by the Turkish side as inadequate. It was said that the plans would be revised, but I have now not heard about the miraculous billions the Chinese were ready to invest into the Turkish HSR system in probably two years, so maybe the deal is dead.


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## CookieDance (Aug 17, 2014)

*Siemens Velaro TR*







:cheers:


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## Tower Dude (Oct 13, 2013)

Shiny!!


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## elekto (Jul 28, 2014)

images from interiors already?


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## Cadîr (Aug 20, 2010)

Where is it/will it be used ?


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## CookieDance (Aug 17, 2014)

Cadîr said:


> Where is it/will it be used ?


Istanbul-Ankara
Ankara-Konya


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## CookieDance (Aug 17, 2014)

*Eskisehir Highspeed Station*


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## Jeff Hawken (Jun 15, 2009)

Is the "Piri Reis" test train one of the normla fleet of CAF YHT train sets with additional equipment fitted, or is it a specially built train. If it is part of the CAF fleet, which number set is it?


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...aydarpasa-station-modernisation-approved.html
> 
> *Haydarpaşa station modernisation approved*
> 27 Aug 2014
> ...


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## IHK (Sep 8, 2014)




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## Jeff Hawken (Jun 15, 2009)

When will the Velaro enter passenger service in Turkey? Will it be used on the Pendik to Konya route?


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## rdgnrdgn (Feb 2, 2012)

I heard that TCDD will put them on to Ankara-Konya line first.


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Global Rail News:



> http://www.globalrailnews.com/2014/10/07/tcdd-to-overhaul-caf-high-speed-trains/
> 
> *TCDD to overhaul CAF high-speed trains*
> 7 OCT, 2014
> ...


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## Sunfuns (Mar 26, 2012)

Why do these almost new trains need to be overhauled?


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## Edil Arda (Nov 14, 2012)

we don't satisfied with metro sets of CAF in İstanbul and I didn't heard nice comments about those HSR sets too.
I guess we're only happy with their sets in İZBAN.


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## Reivajar (Sep 3, 2003)

But there is any particular problem with them or just general complaints? Mechanical problems?


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## Edil Arda (Nov 14, 2012)

nope, just general complaints but I don't have any technical information


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## Cadîr (Aug 20, 2010)

As far as I know, they included a 5 year warranty period and spare parts ?


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## Gusiluz (Apr 4, 2013)

^^ Alstom who now keeps the trains, so I do not think there's any manufacturer's warranty. 
This theme of change maintenance company to 3/4 years of delivery has no sense, but it is legal.
.....................
Ahora es Alstom quien mantiene los trenes, así que no creo que exista ningún tipo de garantía del fabricante.
Este tema de cambiar de empresa de mantenimiento a los 3/4 años de la entrega no tiene ningún sentido, pero es legal.


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## 1453TheConquest (Dec 6, 2014)




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## marty88 (Jan 28, 2013)

arda84 said:


> Bozüyük YHT Garı
> 
> 
> 
> ...


..


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## Battuta (Feb 16, 2012)

.

Turkey to Build High-Speed Railway Line to Bulgaria



> *Turkey to Build High-Speed Railway Line to Bulgaria*
> Business | *January 10,* 2015, Saturday // 13:03| Views: 1415 | Comments: 5
> 
> 
> ...


- See more at: http://www.novinite.com/articles/16...Railway+Line+to+Bulgaria#sthash.gfzQwoKi.dpuf


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## TAI_TFX (Jan 9, 2015)

^^



> *High-speed railway to link Istanbul with Bulgaria*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://www.dailysabah.com/money/2015/01/10/highspeed-railway-to-link-istanbul-with-bulgaria


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## Battuta (Feb 16, 2012)

TAI_TFX said:


> ^^
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.dailysabah.com/money/2015/01/10/highspeed-railway-to-link-istanbul-with-bulgaria


date?


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## TAI_TFX (Jan 9, 2015)

Battuta said:


> date?


Published
January 10, 2015

You see on the left ( top )


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## Edil Arda (Nov 14, 2012)

they keep saying this for years...


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

It's a high speed rail line to the Turkey-Bulgaria border, not a high speed rail line to Bulgaria. How much demand is there past Edirne anyway?


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## Sunfuns (Mar 26, 2012)

Woonsocket54 said:


> It's a high speed rail line to the Turkey-Bulgaria border, not a high speed rail line to Bulgaria. How much demand is there past Edirne anyway?


But what would it connect to in Bulgaria? It's only 20 km from Edirne to the border so it only makes sense if train can continue to some larger city on the other side.


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## Baron Hirsch (Jan 31, 2009)

Of course there is a demand: just check the high number of buses departing from Esenler bus station to Bulgaria everyday. There are lots of families that live in Turkey and have relatives, studies, or work in Bulgaria and vice versa. Also Bulgarian tourists in Turkey are among the top 10. Finally if the Schengen visa finally is dropped or much simplified, as has been promised, Istanbulites will discover that there is good beaches, ski slopes, nature, and night life just outside their doorstep. 
Last but certainly not least, it would also do good for the freight traffic if a straighter, faster line would replace the curvy and slow tracks built there by Baron Hirsch in the 1870s. This is a vital link in intercontinental exports and imports.
The Bulgarian side of the border track has been modernized in the last years and is nearing completion. Tracks there are designed for 160 kmh from Plovdiv to the border, reconstruction of Sofia-Plovdiv has begun. 4 hours from Sofia to Istanbul woudl be entirely possible if the present method of ultra-slow border checks would be abondoned for more efficient methods (checks by mobile police groups on moving trains). 
A problem is the bas state of Bulgarian State Railways, which is being slowly starved to death by the government. Therefore a new HSR train would probably have to be operated by TCDD.


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## jonasry (Feb 6, 2011)

The line on the Bulgarian side is beeing upgraded to 160 km/h, far from HSR but at least something that could be used in conjunction with a fast line on the Turkish side. The current condition of services are despicable, a single overnight train with couchettes only. And it's mostly empty!

With HSR being built from Budapest to Belgrade and now hopefully Istanbul-Bulgaria there might actually be a reasonable way to travel to Istanbul from Europe.

Even if I _personally_ miss the overnight services from Vienna and Budapest.


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## gippas (Nov 19, 2013)

^^
There already is a very reasonable way to travel from Istanbul to Europe, it's called airplane. Even if there was 200km/h lines all along the approximately 1,200km between Istanbul and Budapest and all the border control issues had been solved, it would still be a trip that would take more than 8h, making it uncompetitive to budget airlines for the majority of travelers. Rail can be competitive for trips from Istanbul, to Sofia, Skopje, Thessaloniki, maybe Belgrade and Bucharest at a stretch. There is a reason that the line between Barcelona ahd Paris has only two direct pairs of trains per day and the line between London and Paris 15.

The only trains that are competitive for further distances are those that carry cars, so that people who want to visit Turkey can take their car with them without driving and staying at a hotel overnight. Those trains don't need to have super high speeds, a 100km/h that would make them faster than cars are sufficient


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## Battuta (Feb 16, 2012)

. 

TCCD has to test this :

http://www.franceinfo.fr/emission/t...son-tour-le-forfait-illimite-29-01-2015-06-53

TGV illimité 60€/mois 


here the cities concerned :


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## doc7austin (Jun 24, 2012)

I have read some articles on that, but I would like to ask this forum again:
When will the Turkish High Speed YHT train be better integrated into the public transportation system of Istanbul - this may include access by metro or suburban rail (not just taxi or bus)?


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## Baron Hirsch (Jan 31, 2009)

Original planning was for summer of this year, i.e. trains could have run to Haydarpasa or European suburbs. However, the Spanish company charged with reconstructing Istanbul's urban railway just tore down all old rails, platforms, and bridges, then stopped working all together. The ministry of transport is now negotiating for a Turkish company to take over construction without any tender. This way they might possibly still make 2017. Sadly these kind of irresponsible or incapable construction companies abound and all too often manage to win a tender in Turkey in the infrastructure business.


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## Battuta (Feb 16, 2012)

Edit


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## hans280 (Jun 13, 2008)

Baron Hirsch said:


> Original planning was for summer of this year, i.e. trains could have run to Haydarpasa or European suburbs. However, the Spanish company charged with reconstructing Istanbul's urban railway just tore down all old rails, platforms, and bridges, then stopped working all together. The ministry of transport is now negotiating for a Turkish company to take over construction without any tender. This way they might possibly still make 2017. Sadly these kind of irresponsible or incapable construction companies abound and all too often manage to win a tender in Turkey in the infrastructure business.


That sounds just like my native Denmark. The bureaucrats are afraid of the consequences of not accepting the cheapest bid. So they sign a contract that even a child would say is bound to fail. Then, when the contract fails, they throw up their hands and claim innocence: they have acted in good faith because there was a firm contract with the private party. 

Sadly this plays into the hands of crooked companies. They low-ball their bids recklessly and bet on endless re-negotiations. Reputable companies often withdraw from such competitions because they fear for their good reputation. But if you're a crook.... well, then there's no good reputation to worry about. hno:


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/high-speed/single-view/view/tcdd-orders-10-more-velaros.html
> 
> *TCDD orders 10 more Velaros*
> 18 Feb 2015
> ...


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## Baron Hirsch (Jan 31, 2009)

I do not know if this is the right decision. Siemens had bad delays producing its Velaros for Deutsche Bahn. I have taken the Velaro now a few times in Germany, and there are several problems all the time. One time the train could not leave for 10 minutes because a door did not close, toilets were clogged almost all over the train. Changes to the ICE3 were mostly for the worse and not the better, but of course TCDD could order changes in seating, dining car arrangements, etc., so this need not apply for the Velaro Türk.


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## Battuta (Feb 16, 2012)

doc7austin said:


> I have read some articles on that, but I would like to ask this forum again:
> When will the Turkish High Speed YHT train be better integrated into the public transportation system of Istanbul - this may include access by metro or suburban rail (not just taxi or bus)?


Perhaps a good example of interurban and intraurban complementarity would be the spanish example where a HSR passenger has a free termination trip in urban transport network.


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## M-NL (Sep 18, 2012)

Baron Hirsch said:


> I do not know if this is the right decision. Siemens had bad delays producing its Velaros for Deutsche Bahn.


From a maintenance perspective only it wouldn't make sense to order anything else then extra Velaros. A total of 17 high speed trains of 2 different types would not make sense.

I do agree with you though that Siemens' track record isn't that great lately. Both the Velaro D and the NMBS Desiros have a long list of problems that Siemens doesn't seem able to solve. Anybody know how the Eurostar E320 and the Amtrak ACS-64 are doing?


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## Edil Arda (Nov 14, 2012)

Baron Hirsch said:


> I do not know if this is the right decision. Siemens had bad delays producing its Velaros for Deutsche Bahn. I have taken the Velaro now a few times in Germany, and there are several problems all the time. One time the train could not leave for 10 minutes because a door did not close, toilets were clogged almost all over the train. Changes to the ICE3 were mostly for the worse and not the better, but of course TCDD could order changes in seating, dining car arrangements, etc., so this need not apply for the Velaro Türk.


Can you compare CAF sets and Velaro?


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## Qtya (Aug 31, 2006)

Spotted in Hungary yesterday:



Trucker1991 said:


> Az imént volt besorozva tehervonatba. Megy Törökországba.
> 
> View attachment 95466
> 
> View attachment 95468


----------



## Qtya (Aug 31, 2006)

Siemens delivers final Velaro high-speed train to Turkey


Turkish State Railways (TCDD) has received its 19th and final Velaro high-speed train from Siemens Mobility.




www.railjournal.com


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## VITORIA MAN (Jan 31, 2013)

Edited


----------



## Sallonian (Jun 9, 2017)

Is Ankara-Istanbul railway a real high-Speed Rail or more like Northeast Corridor?


----------



## Stuu (Feb 7, 2007)

Sallonian said:


> Is Ankara-Istanbul railway a real high-Speed Rail or more like Northeast Corridor?


Yes, 80% of the route is entirely new construction, you can follow it easily on Google maps or your preferred aerial mapping service. There is a section still under construction east of Izmit which will cut off the distance a little more


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## Sallonian (Jun 9, 2017)

Stuu said:


> Yes, 80% of the route is entirely new construction, you can follow it easily on Google maps or your preferred aerial mapping service. There is a section still under construction east of Izmit which will cut off the distance a little more


The new railway should use a more direct routing from Ankara to Izmit and then build the line all the way to Constantinople. The design speed should be 350 km/hr. That's how I would design railways.


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## Balkanmiddleeastern (Dec 12, 2020)

Constantino who?


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## Edil Arda (Nov 14, 2012)

Sallonian said:


> The new railway should use a more direct routing from Ankara to Izmit and then build the line all the way to Constantinople. The design speed should be 350 km/hr. That's how I would design railways.


There is no need for trolling.


Balkanmiddleeastern said:


> Constantino who?


And no need for escalation.


----------



## Ghostpoet (Nov 29, 2016)

What is the current situation of the Ankara - Sivas HS line, and for when is the opening scheduled?

Thank you and regards
Ghostpoet


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## Sallonian (Jun 9, 2017)

I'm not here for arguing. I care about High-Speed Rail and Rail in general, so that I want every single major country develop a comprehensive HSR network and that's definetely what I want for Turkey. A high-speed railway connecting all cities of the country with 1M population and remote parts of the country together. Benefits are well-known: Economic, Enviromental, Traffic, Social.

Well, Constantinopole and Istanbul have something in common, both contain the word "πόλις", meaning "city. Don't see a problem, using a word of my language, just as people call Deutschland Germany in their own language.


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## Baron Hirsch (Jan 31, 2009)

I would correct the statement above about the HSL somewhat:

+ Istanbul-Ankara is designed as a 160 kmh upgrade between Istanbul-Izmit Köseköy, as a 250 kmh new line following the route of the old line only roughly from there to the Ankara suburbs at Sincan, and then a 200 (?) kmh parallel line to the previous line. The problem is that long sections of the route were inaugurated prematurely and that therefore, much of the line is operating below design speeds and capacity. Istanbul-Köseköy I have never seen go faster than 120 kmh, the same speed possible on the non-modernized line before (possibly a matter of signaling). Especially Köseköy-Eskisehir has long sections where the HSR is still not completed, so for most of that section, the HS trains lumber along at 70 kmh on the old line. Eskisehir-Sincan is fully operational (except for the out-of-town HS railway station that could save additional time), but between Sincan and Ankara Station, there is (or was?) not even signaling reintroduced after construction, which we learned through a deadly accident a few years ago. So it is a bit of pop and go, overall speeds are not much better than on the old line, and as politicians claimed the line to be completed, filling the construction gaps has been coming along at a snail's pace. 

+ A direct Ankara-Izmit line bypassing Eskisehir and doing 350 kmh has been in planning for many years now. However, it will be exorbitantly expensive and with government funding for railways having decisively slowed down after 2013, the chances of this becoming reality are quite distant.

+ Ankara - Sivas is said to enter services this summer, but no clear launch date has been announced. This line will also compensate for some missing sections by using a slower and older line, but the overall gain in traveling speed will be immense nonetheless. 

+ Finally a word about city names: language and names are made to understand one another and not to deliberately misunderstand and provoke one another. Istanbul/Constantinople (or Tsarigrad, Miklagard, Kaiser-i Zemin, Kushta to use a few other names for the city) has never been "Greek" or "Turkish", nor were the empires ruled from here ever just a product of the one or other ethnic group. The city was always a melting pot where people from all over Europe and Asia came together (and to a lesser degree continue to do so until today), left their cultural impact and shaped the city as we know it. This includes besides the two already mentioned also Armenians, Kurds, Roma, Sephardim, Italians, Arabs, Africans, Albanians, Slavs, Uygurs, Vikings etc. etc. 
So to both sides, please keep petty bickering to yourselves.


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## Sallonian (Jun 9, 2017)

That's definitely a mistake. High speed rail lines should be constructed from scratch as fully functional high speed dedicated railways. Using older upgraded sections of the railway, stops its future potential. This is not that would you do to connect your two most important cities. That's a mistake Germany does. High speed rail could do a great job reaching out to remote regions and spurring growth. That needs a 350 km/h speed limit.

Therefore, a straighter route from Ankara to Izmit would be commendable. This line should be 350 km/h. The whole trip Ankara to Constantinople shouldn't last more than 2 hours. I also think Constantinople needs a dedicated high speed rail crossing below Bosporus, along with several other Metro crossings. If I got it correctly, Marmaray will be used as a single railway tunnel for all kinds of trains? Freight, high speed, commuter, Metro? This won't work, trust me. High speed rail needs a fully dedicated line.


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## TER200 (Jan 27, 2019)

Sallonian said:


> I got it correctly, Marmaray will be used as a single railway tunnel for all kinds of trains? Freight, high speed, commuter, Metro?


Yes.


Sallonian said:


> This won't work, trust me.


Why should we ?


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## The Wild Boy (Apr 5, 2020)

Wasn't the 3rd Bosphorus bridge meant to carry the high speed railway? It has space for railway tracks in the middle.


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## Stuu (Feb 7, 2007)

The Wild Boy said:


> Wasn't the 3rd Bosphorus bridge meant to carry the high speed railway? It has space for railway tracks in the middle.


It would make more sense to use those for freight to avoid Istanbul. I don't see much use for a high speed line that avoids the biggest city in the country, I guess a direct service to the airport that way would be useful but the numbers would be much lower than those wanting to go to the city


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## The Wild Boy (Apr 5, 2020)

Also, wasn't there another project for an another tunnel proposal for railway and 4 lane road under the Bosphorus? What about that? Maybe that could be a good use to connect both parts of Istanbul with a faster railway.

Btw freight trains through the Marmaray tunnel only go through it at night, when commuter trains don't run through it, so i don't think that freight trains are that big of an issue there, but more the commuter trains that could delay the "high speed trains" if they even run them through there. 

I think Istanbul needs that other underground tunnel so they can run faster railway under the Bosphorus strait, or if it makes sense then they can utilize the 3rd Bosphorus bridge.

I think that a high soeed railway from the Istanbul airport, to Ankara and other cities would make sense, so after all high speed trains will still have to use the 3rd Bosphorus bridge, if they run on such routes.

Or maybe Sofia - Istanbul Airport train connection one day could become a think, and Bulgarians could travel on a train to the Istanbul Airport, then go abroad. There are many potentials i have to say yes, and it will be interesting what they will choose. But i have to say that both sides of Istanbul need to be properly linked with the high speed railway to Ankara, and the high speed railway to the border with Bulgaria, yes.


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## Ghostpoet (Nov 29, 2016)

Repeated as no answer received...
What is the current situation of the Ankara - Sivas HS line, and for when is the opening scheduled?

Thank you and regards
Ghostpoet


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## Edil Arda (Nov 14, 2012)

Kinda finished but there are some unfinished work,
opening is soon without complete finishing of works.


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## 437.001 (Mar 27, 2009)

A question from a misinformed far away forumer.

Are Sirkeçi (surface station, the historical one) and Haydarpasa stations in use? 
If not, are there any plans to put them back in service?


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## Edil Arda (Nov 14, 2012)

Current situation of Haydarpaşa,










https://www.iha.com.tr/haber-haydarpasa-gari-cevresindeki-kazilarda-tarihi-yapilar-gun-yuzune-cikmaya-devam-ediyor-967429/



They're digging the field since 2018 (Found remainings of ancient Kalkedon), restoration of the building nearly finished.

Bonus video;




(Turkish only unfortunately)


Sirkeci is in use only as depot for Marmaray trains.
There are plans to convert rails to a tram line (Which will use old stations) by the government but schedule is unknown.


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## 437.001 (Mar 27, 2009)

Edil Arda said:


> (Found remainings of ancient Kalkedon)


Looks like there's quite a few of them... 

But I guess that in such a place, that was to be expected.


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## The Wild Boy (Apr 5, 2020)

Edil Arda said:


> Current situation of Haydarpaşa,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So they are planning to put new tracks and do more platforms? 
You say they will convert it to tramway tracks, all of them? So they plan to turn this station into a massive tramway terminus? If that's the case then where will Marmaray trains terminate?

Does Istanbul plan any new train station to serve the high speed railway?


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## Edil Arda (Nov 14, 2012)

Haydarpaşa will serve HSR trains,
Sirkeci might just be a tram station, but in my opinion it should serve regional and international trains as well.
No Marmaray for Sirkeci or Haydarpaşa, at least for now.

As far as I know there are planned HSR stations in northern crossing (Third Bridge), one of them might be in Sultanbeyli, I'm not sure.


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## svt11 (May 13, 2009)

To kapikule when they will start?


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## Edil Arda (Nov 14, 2012)

It's under construction.
Official completion date is 09.06.2023.


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## Coryza (Jan 2, 2018)

Any update on the tender for Cerkzikoy - Halkali? Heard it was now on hold due to the possible new strait?


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## kostas97 (Jan 19, 2014)

What is the progress in the Istanbul - Kapikule HSR and Ankara - Izmir HSR lines?? Also, are there any pictures of the new Ankara - Sivas HSR line? And a question regarding the Istanbul - Kapikule HSR.....is it going to include a connection to the Pythio - Alexandroupoli line (and thus to the Greek railway network)?


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## Baron Hirsch (Jan 31, 2009)

kostas97 said:


> What is the progress in the Istanbul - Kapikule HSR and Ankara - Izmir HSR lines?? Also, are there any pictures of the new Ankara - Sivas HSR line? And a question regarding the Istanbul - Kapikule HSR.....is it going to include a connection to the Pythio - Alexandroupoli line (and thus to the Greek railway network)?


Concerning your more specific questions:

Çerkezköy-Kapıkule was already reported a few weeks ago to have reached a 47% of completion of construction works. It is due to be finished on 31 December 2023. 

For the section Ispartakule – Çerkezköy, a credit has just been approved by the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, covering roughly half the expenses. So hopefully, tender will be soon.

No, there is no link to Greece planned. Unfortunately, Greek authorities seem to have lost all interest in rail connections to the neighboring states. And also, to my knowledge, while rail infrastructure improvements are ongoing in Western Thrace, none of these would really supply the infrastructure for HS trains. AFAIK Western Thrace rail lines are not even electrified. Also, the new HSR Line Çerkezköy-Kapıkule route will pass further north and nowhere near the Uzunköprü railway bridge. Only in Edirne will it be in proximity to the Greek border.

There was a recent update on HSR construction by the minister of traffic, unfortunately not including up-to-date numbers on Kapikule HSR, but most others:

*Ankara - Sivas *
95 % construction done, ongoing works Ankara – Balışeyh.* Inauguration on indefinite date 2022.* For some links to films and pictures, go to the Turkey/Infrastructure Developments/HSR section of Skyscraper.

*Konya-Karaman *
Done, inauguration "very soon" or *January 2022*. 

*Bursa-Osmaneli(-Ankara):* 82 % done. 

*Izmir-Polatli(-Ankara):* 47 % done, which is very little considering construction began a long time ago. While the government has been splurging money on unneeded highways and airports, it has unfortunately decisively slowed down payments on rail routes. 

*Karaman-Ulukisla*: 83 % done. The minister spoke of a future traveling time Konya-Adana of only 2 hrs 20 min. 

*Rail Ring north of Istanbul (Adapazarı-Gebze-3rd BosporusBridge-İstanbul Airport-Çatalca-Halkalı*): Given "special attention" in the previous months, but apparently this has not led to tender or even a credit agreement to finance this line.

*G. Antep*: Trial runs on the new suburban rail system were supposed to start

*Yerköy-Kayseri *
Tender for this 142 Km stretch supposedly very soon. 200 kmh or 250 kmh, some confusing statements here. Traveling time reduced from 3 1/2 hrs to 1 Supposedly, 4 years construction, but that was claimed for Sivas, Izmir, Bursa too a looong time ago.... 

*Aksaray-Ulukışla-Mersin Yenice*
Looking for a credit abroad at the moment.


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## kostas97 (Jan 19, 2014)

^ Thank you, you covered me in every question plus a lot more. AFAIK, Greece has no upgrade plans for the lines east of Thessaloniki (unfortunately, considering that the trip to Alexandroupoli - 300 km or 3 hours by car - takes 7-8 (!) hours by train), even though many plans for partial upgrades or electrification have been proposed, not even close to an HSR though.....
I thought the Ankara - Sivas line was opened, it seemed as such in OSM.....and the Istanbul - Kapikule line, i wasn't aware that it would be constructed in 2 parts, and i also didn't know that part of the new Istanbul bridge was prepaired for future railway infrastructure. If i'm not mistaken, there are no plans for direct connection between Istanbul and Izmir by HSR, right??


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## Baron Hirsch (Jan 31, 2009)

Too bad about Western Thrace. While there is no large Greek city there, the number of smaller cities often at small distances from one another add up to a not insignificant part of the population. Also, it is an international corridor, also for freight, and one should hope that Istanbul-Thessaloniki, two not so distant, tightly connected cities since millennia, would see some traffic not by road or plane, but train. HSR for Western Thrace would be disproportionate, but at least trains that run 120-160 kmh, are electrified, have safe signaling and two tracks and with a new alignment, rather than the curvy route built way back in 1895 would be in order.

Ankara - Sivas was weird: the official opening was announced, despite warnings that the partial usage of the old line by the high speed trains could be dangerous (Turkey has seen several bad and avoidable accidents of this sort in the last years). Then, without any announcement, the opening is postponed and apparently, now they are waiting until all HSR sections are completed and usage of the old tracks will not be necessary. Unfortunately, that is how this government does things, without any accountability. 

Çerkezköy-Kapıkule is financed by a European Bank for Development credit, while the shorter section from Çerkezköy to the big city which was to be financed by the Turkish state directly, now profits from another European Bank for Development loan plus one by the Asian Infrastructure Development Bank. This is why construction on the former section has been going well, there is no lack of immediate funds, unlike for the Izmir line for example.

As this government and also the state railways operate without any accountability or transparency, we do not know anything about the planned operations on the Izmir HSL. However, an Istanbul - Izmir train would not be very attractive, as this would mean a huge detour, all the way into Central Anatolia at Polatli, before swerving southwestwards to the Aegean coast. Since the construction of a bridge and highway from the east of Istanbul straight to Izmir, bus companies claim they can do the distance in 5-6 hours. A high-speed train via Polatli could hardly do better. Unfortunately, the investor into this car bridge had refused to consider building the bridge so that trains could use it. He considered it a threat and potential competition to his investment. As the usage of the very expensive bridge is below expectations, the ferries across the Marmara Sea are being reduced. But that is another story...


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## jonasry (Feb 6, 2011)

Baron Hirsch said:


> Ankara - Sivas was weird: the official opening was announced, despite warnings that the partial usage of the old line by the high speed trains could be dangerous (Turkey has seen several bad and avoidable accidents of this sort in the last years). Then, without any announcement, the opening is postponed and apparently, now they are waiting until all HSR sections are completed and usage of the old tracks will not be necessary. Unfortunately, that is how this government does things, without any accountability.


Will there be a new stations built in Sivas? It seems they are building a bypass but at the same time I've seen statements that the old central station will be used too.


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## kostas97 (Jan 19, 2014)

Also, are there any plans for an eastward expansion of the HSR line from Sivas?


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## Baron Hirsch (Jan 31, 2009)

kostas97 said:


> Also, are there any plans for an eastward expansion of the HSR line from Sivas?


On Open Railway Map, you can see a pitiful short section east of Sivas, which is under construction, gets minimal funding, but obviously goes nowhere. 
This is because in the last years, there has been quite a switch in rail infrastructure policy in Turkey. While under the transport minister Binali Yildirim, during the first half of AKP rule, the plan was to build a continuous 250 kmh-line Edirne-Istanbul-Ankara-Sivas-Kars. It was later realized that this was not a very tenable strategy. Turkey's northeast (Erzurum-Erzincan-Kars) is scarcely populated. While the HSR was intended as a source of development, no feasibility could ever have been reached. Also, much of the country is desperately in need of improved freight rail infrastructure, which the 250 kmh lines are not made for. 
The rail infrastructure policy of later years has therefore shifted to the direction most governments since Ottoman times have focused on: from Istanbul to the South(east, as the initial section of the Baghdad Railway used to run), i.e. Konya, Mersin, Adana, Antep, where much more populous and economically productive areas exist. Also, new sections are now mostly 200 kmh, which make them viable also for freight. 
So I believe no, Sivas will remain the dead end for the foreseeable future.


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## kostas97 (Jan 19, 2014)

Concerning the fact that Kars is the beginning of the new line to Baku via Tbilisi, isn't a line from Sivas to Kars a viable solution? I mean, except for freight transport, passenger transport will be enhanced as well, bringing Turkey in a more strategic position. As for the southward expansions that were mentioned, i believe that Turkey might not seek the construction of a line to either Iraq and Syria or Iran, even if it would become a good alternative for the Eurasian land bridge (or new Silk road, anyway, whatever its name is).


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## foxmulder (Dec 1, 2007)

Nope... never. Turkey does not invest in Kurdish areas. A high speed rail in Kurdish areas will never be built since the policy is to starve those regions for investment and force migration of Kurds to western regions for low paying jobs (especially in agriculture and construction) where they might be assimilated. 100 year-old policy.


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## Balkanmiddleeastern (Dec 12, 2020)

that's true but Kars, Erzurum and Erzincan are not Kurdish areas.


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## Baron Hirsch (Jan 31, 2009)

True. Some of the Northeastern provinces are the ones with the highest AKP turnout, and the traffic minister recently reiterated that the HSR in this direction would be continued, but judging by the performance of the last years, no-one should hold their breath. But I believe Foxmulder was referring to the likelihood of lines to Syria or Iraq, which would have to pass through the Southeast. 
The Turkish state claims to provide development to that region for example with its Southeast Anatolia Project (GAP), a massive system of dams, which according to the state perspective is to provide water for irrigation of previously arid land for agriculture. According to critics, GAP is an instrument to destroy previous settlements, nature, heritage, and possible clandestine routes of the guerilla. Concerning new rail lines, the security situation would really have to improve, as guerillas have repeatedly attacked trains and railway staff, because they see Turkish State Railways as collaborating with the state against them (TCDD are obviously also used for military logistics). Even ordinary passenger trains passing through Diyabakir are pelted with stones by kids. 
A side-branch from the Northeastern (Kars) HSR to Diyabakir was occasionally illustrated in official brochures as a long-term goal, but never enjoyed any serious planning attention. 
Before the war, a high-speed line G. Antep - Aleppo was seriously being planned by the Turkish side. No word of it in recent years.
Occasionally, there is mention of constructing a direct rail line Turkey to Iraq, as the preexisting Baghdad Railway briefly passes through Syria. This line would be predominantly for freight and not HSR.


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## Baron Hirsch (Jan 31, 2009)

The opening of Konya-Karaman HSR has officially been announced for Saturday, 8 January. This is apparently only an official ceremony. Neither TCDD's ticketing system nor the schedule show Karaman as destination, while other destinations, including Konya, can still be booked weeks ahead.
In another note, the traffic minister has announced that the project of the HSR Yerköy-Kayseri, a side-branch of Ankara-Sivas, would be ready for signing by next week.


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