# Thoughts on Washington, D.C.?



## Westsidelife (Nov 26, 2005)

Does Washington seem underrated here? Anyways, I love the city. In fact, I'm going there TOMORROW! But I don't know about you but I just love walking around the city especially at night. I think it's nice to be enveloped by trees rather than skyscrapers and the atmosphere of the place really comforts me. I gathered here some photos:


----------



## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

I haven't been to D.C in years but its a pretty cool city. Too bad the sprawl and income distribution is terrible.


----------



## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

An underrated city that is for sure, even if it is not the best in the world, don't forget to go to some suburbs such as Silver Spring, Arlington, Bethesda and Alexandria if you want some animation


----------



## reluminate (Aug 3, 2004)

Beautiful city. I'm visiting on Thursday.


----------



## Westsidelife (Nov 26, 2005)

virtual said:


> An underrated city that is for sure, even if it is not the best in the world, don't forget to go to some suburbs such as Silver Spring, Arlington, Bethesda and Alexandria if you want some animation


There is SO much do there...unfortunately i wanted to say in Williamsburg also but didn't end up making a reservation there. Definitely will be going to Arlington, Georgetown, Pentagon City (?).


----------



## Westsidelife (Nov 26, 2005)

Okay this is my list. If you think I'm forgeting anything, please inform me.

Arlington National Cemetery
Lincoln Memorial
Jefferson Memorial
Holocaust Museum
Archives
Library of Congress
US Capitol
White House 
Lafayette Squre
Smithsonian (all museums)
George Washington's estate
Georgetown
National Mall
Union Station
Vietnam Memorial
World War II Memorial
Washington Monument
Willard Hotel
Pentagon City
Kennedy Center
Iow Jima Memorial


----------



## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

Westsidelife said:


> There is SO much do there...unfortunately i wanted to say in Williamsburg also but didn't end up making a reservation there. Definitely will be going to Arlington, Georgetown, Pentagon City (?).



I've never been to Pentagon city, only went through it with the metro a few times, but I've heard there was nothing interesting over there


----------



## miamicanes (Oct 31, 2002)

I haven't been to Pentagon City in about 8 years, but back when I was in college and used to go to D.C., it was my favorite mall in America.

DC's biggest problem is basically the people who live there. They're nice individually, especially when they're NOT in DC, but will drive you insane when encountered in large numbers in their native environment. OK, that's a little harsh and over-generalizing, but the single biggest thing that always stuck out whenever I used to go there was the fact that all anyone ever seemed to do in social situations was try figure out whose ass they should kiss in an effort to advance their careers or strategically stab a competitor in the back. It was like, "Jeez... haven't you people ever heard of just having fun and getting laid for the sake of fun and recreation, without the need for ulterior motives or some grand strategy?" The attitutde was pervasive _everywhere_. At one point, I just wanted to stand on a table and yell, "Dammit, have fun! This is a party. F-U-N. Not W-O-R-K. You're here to D-R-I-N-K and get L-A-I-D. For F-U-N. 

It turns out that I wasn't alone in forming that impression (two other friends who were there with me on one trip felt exactly the same way).


----------



## DonQui (Jan 10, 2005)

For American standards it is fantastic. And when you compare it to other planned cities for federal countries (Canberra for Australia, Brasilia for Brasil), Washington DC wipes the floor with them.

However, I think that compared to cities in the developed world, it is not that spectacular. It changes to a fairly ordinary city almost immediately once you leave the neo-classically inspired federal buildings. 

In short, one of the best in the US, but would not be one of my global picks in terms of cities in general, but would be my top planned capital.

:yes:


----------



## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

Washington is definitely underrated. It's beautiful and cosmopolitan. It's on par with the second tier European capitals like Madrid and Berlin.


----------



## DonQui (Jan 10, 2005)

LLoydGeorge said:


> Washington is definitely underrated. It's beautiful and cosmopolitan. It's on par with the second tier European capitals like Madrid and Berlin.


Not sure if I would make such a comparison. IMO Madrid is a more organic city where the capital's buildings blend seemlessly from government to private. Not to mention that Madrid's night life and likely Berlin's nightlife leave DC in the dust. And while the Smithsonian is a reputable SET (the key word being SET) of museums, aside of the National Air and Space Museum and some elements of the Museum of Natural History, its collection museum to museum in general terms is very mediocre, nothing compared to the great museum cities of Madrid and Berlin.

I would also probably not classify Madrid and Berlin as "second tier" but that is a whole other debate.


----------



## jmancuso (Jan 9, 2003)

the DC we see in pictures (the capitol, white house, federal buildings, georgetown, etc...) is beautiful but the the city as a whole is pretty run down and depressing


----------



## USS Yankee (Nov 28, 2005)

I found DC to be fascinating as the capital city, and downright horrible as a business city.

I think if you go to DC with the mindset of learning about history, government, and museums - there are few places in the world that equal it. 

But if you are looking for qualities such as nightlife, business enviroment, and general urbanity - you will probably be disappointed. In all of those cases, DC does not hold a candle most any other city in the east coast like Philly, NYC, Boston, or Miami.

I've always found DC well worth visiting. I call it "The City In a Forest", because the metro area is just so "woodsie" and quite picturesque.


----------



## Zorba (Sep 7, 2005)

I might have a biased view as a person who was born in DC and raised 5 minutes from DC, but here is my opinion,

Washington is an amazing city in every aspect. A person can find anything they need in the city in terms of historic monuments, diversity, restaurants, nightlife, sporting events(DC has a team in all 4 major sports), great suburbs such as Alexandria on the Virginia side and Bethesda or Silver Spring on the Maryland side, a beutiful water front, some of the best universities in the country(Georgetown, American, George Washington, Catholic, etc.....), and a great public transportation system.

The city actually has anything that a person needs. Not to mention you dont need to get in a car and drive for half an hour to get where you need to go like in L.A., and you dont feel squeezed in to a crowded city like in New York.


----------



## Westsidelife (Nov 26, 2005)

jmancuso said:


> the DC we see in pictures (the capitol, white house, federal buildings, georgetown, etc...) is beautiful but the the city as a whole is pretty run down and depressing


Really? Cause I felt the exact opposite the first time I went there. I think there also seems to be a lack of ethnic diversity. And isn't Washington, D.C. supposed to be the world's most powerful city? I mean, everyone I think believes New York City is but I think when you look at it, DC can hold that title.


----------



## DonQui (Jan 10, 2005)

Westsidelife said:


> Really? Cause I felt the exact opposite the first time I went there. I think there also seems to be a lack of ethnic diversity. And isn't Washington, D.C. supposed to be the world's most powerful city? I mean, everyone I think believes New York City is but I think when you look at it, DC can hold that title.


World's most powerful city? In what sense? DC falls, the American government falls. New York falls, the global economy shuts down.


----------



## Westsidelife (Nov 26, 2005)

DonQui said:


> World's most powerful city? In what sense? DC falls, the American government falls. New York falls, the global economy shuts down.


In terms of politics, DC. In terms of financial, New York City. Is that what you're saying?


----------



## DonQui (Jan 10, 2005)

Westsidelife said:


> In terms of politics, DC. In terms of financial, New York City. Is that what you're saying?


Well, I was just more commenting on how to define the worth of a city based on its power is, IMO a pretty superfluous criterion.

In the end, you can make arguments either way for multiple cities. 

I would stick more with stuff that is germane to the issue at hand: architecture, quality of life (restaurants, bars, clubs), urbanity, etc.


----------



## vishalt (Jan 27, 2006)

wOOOOOOOOOOOow, thats very beautiful, love the classic architecture


----------



## NovaWolverine (Dec 28, 2004)

"the DC we see in pictures (the capitol, white house, federal buildings, georgetown, etc...) is beautiful but the the city as a whole is pretty run down and depressing"

I'm sorry, I've heard this said before, and it's just an incredibly ignorant comment. The city "as a whole is run down and depressing" This is just wrong. It's not the early 90's anymore. Even though Philly and B'more get tons of credit with their high representation on this site, no other city has changed more since crack and its decline on the east coast than DC. NYC, Philly, B'more have all made big changes since those days, but DC even greater especially in the past 5-7 yrs. 


"But if you are looking for qualities such as nightlife, business enviroment, and general urbanity - you will probably be disappointed. In all of those cases, DC does not hold a candle most any other city in the east coast like Philly, NYC, Boston, or Miami."

How? Doesn't hold a candle in general urbanity? Doesn't hold a candle in nightlife? Oh please. Miami and NYC are on another level of the others you mentioned when it comes to nightlife. Boston has a fairly disappointing nightlife except for a few spots. Philly's is decent, nothing great. DC, without much hesitation has the second best nightlife on the northeastern corridor, there are a ton of places with lots of high profile acts and a pretty diverse selection too. Business environment, you've got a lot of lobbyist presence, and tons of businesses out in the immediate suburbs, but in other aspects it doesn't have it, and doesn't need it. 

DC doesn't lack ethnic diversity either. I don't know where this idea came from. DC is a liberal, cosmopolitan city, there's tons of ethnic diversity. More people come to DC proper from around the country and world to intern and study than most cities.

There are other gripes, DC does have some run down areas that are gentrifying faster than just about everyone else, that are bad, and does have an inequality in income, and it's not the atmosphere for everyone, it's not a place to just go crazy like some other more blue collar towns are, but it's pretty misunderstood. Anacostia is pretty bad, of course, the Navy Yard area is run down now, but in another 5 yrs or so it'll be unrecognizable. 

I feel like the lack of representation just gives people an image of it that they see from TV and when they come to visit for a weekend, it's a real city and better than most in the country for sure. It's not on a Madrid level, Madrid is IMO as tier 1 as it gets in Europe without being there, but DC is a legit tier 2 city when it comes to most things.

With Pentagon City, it's a mall, that's about it, it's nicer than most and in a better location, but it's nothing really special. I honestly recommend you see who's in town performing, and check out the nightlife. People just assume there's no nightlife b/c it's a "sterile" political town, but it is very good. 

You could check out the popular Adams Morgan area, you could go by U St. NE, try a chili half smoke at Ben's Chili Bowl, it's pretty good. Go by some good neighborhoods like Kalorama Heights and Embassy Row off of Massachusetts Ave., Dupont Circle is a nice vibrant area, known for its homosexual presence. You can drive along GW parkway from the Pentagon to Great Falls, it's a nice little ride. The Intl. Spy Museum is very good next to the Verizon Center, it cost money to go in if that's a problem since most other museums you don't.


----------



## AndySocks (Dec 8, 2005)

In my opinion, DC has some of the most beautiful-looking residential neighborhoods in the country. The fact that there are no skyscrapers whatsoever, while a bit disappointing, does make it unique among big US cities.


----------



## jmancuso (Jan 9, 2003)

NovaWolverine said:


> "the DC we see in pictures (the capitol, white house, federal buildings, georgetown, etc...) is beautiful but the the city as a whole is pretty run down and depressing"
> 
> I'm sorry, I've heard this said before, and it's just an incredibly ignorant comment. The city "as a whole is run down and depressing" This is just wrong. It's not the early 90's anymore. Even though Philly and B'more get tons of credit with their high representation on this site, no other city has changed more since crack and its decline on the east coast than DC. NYC, Philly, B'more have all made big changes since those days, but DC even greater especially in the past 5-7 yrs.


a lot of philly and new york are run-down as well but granted, the last time i was in washington, it was in 1992. but don't act as if DC doesnt have a huge income disparity like new york.


----------



## NovaWolverine (Dec 28, 2004)

I acknowledge the income disparity, but with that, no city with the highest income avg. is "as a whole" run down and depressing I guarantee you that. The city is much different now than it was 14 yrs ago. There are still run down areas, but depressing is the opposite of what it is b/c the economic development right now is uplifting and would give someone hope for the future.


----------



## Zorba (Sep 7, 2005)

Westsidelife said:


> Really? Cause I felt the exact opposite the first time I went there. I think there also seems to be a lack of ethnic diversity. And isn't Washington, D.C. supposed to be the world's most powerful city? I mean, everyone I think believes New York City is but I think when you look at it, DC can hold that title.


How does DC not have ethnic diversity?

There are major black, white, hispanic, Chinese, Indian communities across the D.C. area. DC is an International city and is right with diversity.


----------



## Zorba (Sep 7, 2005)

AndySocks said:


> In my opinion, DC has some of the most beautiful-looking residential neighborhoods in the country. The fact that there are no skyscrapers whatsoever, while a bit disappointing, does make it unique among big US cities.


DC is not allowed to have any buildings higher than the Washington Monument. That's why all the skyscrapers are right on the Virginia side of the river.


----------



## philadweller (Oct 30, 2003)

Washington DC is the only city in the Northeast without a gritty Italian neighborhood. In my eyes DC is not as "real" as Baltimore, Philadelphia, NYC or Boston. People live there for four years and add nothing to the legacy of the city as the previously mentioned four. The restaurants are mediocre at best but the city itself is aesthetically pleasing. It has no working harbor and no definite sense of identity. What the movie industry is to LA politics are to DC. It is simply a one horse town. However it blows away most US cities in terms of its urbanity sadly. DC's decadence lies in its underground scenes. There is a pleasant sleaze factor to offset the contrived corrupt artifical formality that it tries to portray. LA is way more interesting to me.

I do like DC tremendously but find it to be the most homegenous of the Northeast cities. People are too career minded to really let their hair down. People still wear penny loafers with pennies and argyle socks there as if it were the 80's all over again.

DC may be diverse but the diversity does not blend well. It is surprisingly segregated for a Northeastern city.

DC is no Madrid or Berlin. It is more like Brasilia.

I agree that DC has improved radically since the Merion Barry days.


----------



## ReddAlert (Nov 4, 2004)

^I think thats a bit harsh.


----------



## philadweller (Oct 30, 2003)

What is harsh specifically? I have been to DC about 100 times.


----------



## NovaWolverine (Dec 28, 2004)

It may be a one horse town, but it has a number of large businesses in the region. It's identity is it's black population. DC and Philly have the strongest and most united black populations on the east coast. I feel like that's very overlooked on these boards where there obviously aren't that many. The city used to have horrible selection of cuisine, but again, it's getting better. There's so much wealth in the District, businesses like to come here and so have restaurants in the past decade or so. 

And it's funny b/c really most ethnic neighborhoods in most cities really suck in general compared to what they used to be, most of them are just touristy areas. 

The DC area has a large Middle Eastern, Korean, North Indian and East African population. I really disagree about it's homogeniality, it's a city with lots of gays, liberals and conservatives, poor and rich. 

DC has gritty neighborhoods, but that's overshadowed by the gov't. I just disagree with a lot of you all simply b/c I've spent enough time in the region to understand what its identity. Aside from the gov't, it's very much like many of it's east coast counterparts w/ the exception of Boston which is the least like the others IMO.


----------



## Jules (Jun 27, 2004)

I've only been once, many years ago. Looking forward to another trip.


----------



## philadweller (Oct 30, 2003)

Actually I think DC is the most like Boston in terms of East coast cities. It is like one giant Back Bay. Philly has more pronounced black culture in terms of the arts but is also has a huge middle class which DC lacks. DC and Boston lack the variety of income levels of NYC, Baltimore and Philly. Philly and NYC are the most integrated East Coast cities along with Miami. Class overshadows race.


----------



## elkram (Apr 1, 2006)

Neat, I found DC to have plenty of character, not that I readily identified with it mind you. A bit off-topic, but I was floored by its new suburbs -- really daunting just to see how much more space is wasted with suburban development à la 1990s/2000s (?) style that seems to have been taking place there -- really mind-boggling how unecessarily spread out DC's burbs are....

Cheers,
Chris


----------



## philadweller (Oct 30, 2003)

Try finding a restaraunt in DC that knows how to cook bacon and eggs properly. I blame it in the abundance of hotel restaurants and franchises.

Forget about good Italian cuisine. 17th street is one of the worst restaurant strips in the US.

Surprisingly the best food can be found at farmers markets and the seafood is not bad considering it is an inland city. It is a steak and potatoes town for the most part.

DC lacks the experimental flair of other cities when it comes to the kitchen.


----------



## NovaWolverine (Dec 28, 2004)

I'm not disputing the disparity among classes, I'm saying that race, the black race is a large part of DC culture, just as much as Philly, b/c like you said it's more divided as far as class and race go. The DC region is known to be one of the areas with the most successful black populations. This is something that is overlooked on boards like these. And forget 17th St., that's not where to go to get some good food anyway. 

DC is a Fried Chicken, Fish and BBQ kind of town IMO. It's not high culture, but that's a part of that "real" side that I think is underrated.


----------



## *Sweetkisses* (Dec 26, 2004)

I like D.C. ALOT. But the funny thing is that most people who say they live in D.C actually live in the outer areas. I've never met anyone who _really_ lives in D.C.


----------



## NovaWolverine (Dec 28, 2004)

I was born and raised in DC and Queens, it was my parents' decision to move to Arlington to get better schools and safer neighborhood, can't say that I blame them, if you have a budget, you can't always have great urbanity and good public schools. 

It's the same thing with most cities, outside of maybe an Chicago, NYC and some others, lots of cities, Boston, DC, SF, expensive cities with small proper populations and large metros.


----------



## philadweller (Oct 30, 2003)

I agree DC has great soul food. Says something about the permanent population. How ignorant of me to overlook that.


----------



## Chicagoago (Dec 2, 2005)

I live in Chicago, but have been to DC 9 times now. I absolutely love the city. There are so many trees, and the cities neighborhoods are some of the best urban neighborhoods I've seen. It's so amazing how much it's changed from the mid 1990's to today. I personally know of Chicago going through mind boggling change during the past few decades, but the amount of gentrification in DC is just insane.

I also noticed sharply how the different racial groups in DC seem to co-mingle much more than they do in other places. When I would go out to bars and social settings it just seemed that the asians/blacks/whites all hung out together in groups, and there wasn't as much of the underlying split seen in other places. I'm sure most of that comes from the fact the city/metro is so diverse, and that a large portion of them work in the same white collar industry. One thing I did notice is that it's a very "corporate" city, people seemed to always be "on" and wouldn't let their hair down and just party with a "who gives a shit" mentality. There was always the underlying tone that people were networking and trying to impress. I can see where it comes from concidering what the towns purpose is....but made it hard to relax and have fun like I do in Chicago.


----------



## newyorker (Mar 22, 2006)

i have lived in washionton d.c. for five years...frankly, this city isnt very safe and comes in top ten dangerous cities of usa.


----------



## goonsta (Sep 11, 2002)

jmancuso said:


> a lot of philly and new york are run-down as well but granted, the last time i was in washington, it was in 1992. but don't act as if DC doesnt have a huge income disparity like new york.


DC is probably tied with Boston as having the most manicured, beautifully arranged neighborhoods in the US. The only run-down area I saw was Anacostia. The city was extremely clean and well put together from my visit two weeks ago.


----------



## philadweller (Oct 30, 2003)

"One thing I did notice is that it's a very "corporate" city, people seemed to always be "on" and wouldn't let their hair down and just party with a "who gives a shit" mentality. There was always the underlying tone that people were networking and trying to impress. I can see where it comes from concidering what the towns purpose is....but made it hard to relax and have fun like I do in Chicago."

So true...the opposite of New Orleans.

DC has some big rats though, I swear they are Nutrias. They love the gardens on front of the setback bowfront rowhomes. Lariope is their jungle and DC has plenty of Lariope.

*


----------



## Zorba (Sep 7, 2005)

@philadweller: I think you are being a bit harsh on D.C. I dont know if its because the Redskins swept the Eagles this year or if it's for any other reason, but the fact remains that D.C. is not as bad as you're making it out to be.


----------



## pwright1 (Jun 1, 2003)

I lived in D.C. for 25 years of my life. Visited in 2002-06 at least 6 times and each time I go back I find it more conservative than ever. Like Philadweller said, preppy, penny loafers and so on. Downtown has improved tremendously for shopping, nightlife, restaurants and all but still far behind many other cities its size imo. Black wealth, power, income and education is #1 in D.C. Sure do miss Howard U homecomings. Beautiful architecture, lots of history but still I find Baltimore, Philadelphia, Miami and even Boston more flavorful.


----------



## NovaWolverine (Dec 28, 2004)

Yeah I agree with the above, i really hate the increasingly preppy and yuppified environment, I really hope that changes sooner or later. It's more liberal in some areas and less liberal in others, but I can see how you could get that impression.


----------



## bayviews (Mar 3, 2006)

Actually, Washington is one of the most diverse cities in terms of the variety of ethnic & immigrant groups. Plenty of African Americans. But many Africans, Caribbeans, Koreans, Vietnamese, Chinese, Salvadoreans, Guatamalans, Bolivians, Afghans, Iranians, Arabs, etc. But the vast majority live in the MD & VA suburbs, not in DC.


----------



## Zorba (Sep 7, 2005)

NovaWolverine said:


> Yeah I agree with the above, i really hate the increasingly preppy and yuppified environment, I really hope that changes sooner or later. It's more liberal in some areas and less liberal in others, but I can see how you could get that impression.


Washington is full of rich Liberals. The city is 95% democrat.


----------



## Zorba (Sep 7, 2005)

philadweller said:


> Washington DC is the only city in the Northeast without a gritty Italian neighborhood. In my eyes DC is not as "real" as Baltimore, Philadelphia, NYC or Boston. People live there for four years and add nothing to the legacy of the city as the previously mentioned four.


I'm sorry but an Italian neighborhood doesn't make a city. DC has a lot of other ethnic areas. I don't undestand what you mean with that whole "legacy" part, can you explain?



> The restaurants are mediocre at best but the city itself is aesthetically pleasing. It has no working harbor and no definite sense of identity.


I take it you have never been to Adams Morgan or Georgetown. Those two areas have fanstastic restaurants. As for the harbor, Georgetown has a beutiful waterside view, and the Anacostia water front is going to be totally re-developed with the new ballpark they are building in that area. By 2010 DC should have a fantastic waterfront/harbor. 



> What the movie industry is to LA politics are to DC. It is simply a one horse town. However it blows away most US cities in terms of its urbanity sadly. DC's decadence lies in its underground scenes. There is a pleasant sleaze factor to offset the contrived corrupt artifical formality that it tries to portray. LA is way more interesting to me.


True, DC is a one horse town just like LA. However DC is much more interesting than Los Angeles, especially considering that DC has only around 600,000 residents while LA has 3 million. 



> I do like DC tremendously but find it to be the most homegenous of the Northeast cities. People are too career minded to really let their hair down. People still wear penny loafers with pennies and argyle socks there as if it were the 80's all over again.


When you live in a federal city like DC you tend to be career minded, especially since chances are you work for the government. DC is the most important political city on earth so you will without a doubt have some "artificial formality".

The fact that you call D.C. "homogeneous" proves how little you know about the city. Washington has people from a vast array of different ethnic groups in its metropolitan areas. I find it hard to believe that DC is at all homogeneous.



> DC may be diverse but the diversity does not blend well. It is surprisingly segregated for a Northeastern city.


What city does not have its ethnic groups primarily centered in one area of the city? In New York you have China Town and Little Italy. Aren't those "segregated" areas? 



> DC is no Madrid or Berlin. It is more like Brasilia.


Again, you prove how little you know about D.C. How can you even begin to compare it to Brasilia? Have you seen pictures of Brasilia? It is by far the most hideous city in Brazil and probably the most hideous city in South America as well. Washington has beautiful architecture, and is very well planned out. You dont even need a car to live in DC for the most part. 

DC is more comparable to Brussels, Ottawa, or the Hague. *NOT* Brasilia.


----------



## great prairie (Jul 18, 2005)

DonQui said:


> World's most powerful city? In what sense? DC falls, the American government falls. New York falls, the global economy shuts down.


If the American government(D.C) falls then so does New York and every other city in America


----------



## TalB (Jun 8, 2005)

On most shots I can find of DC, it's usually the SE end that is shown. The reason is b/c it's where the government is located. However, outside of that, the rest of the district doesn't have anything specially except for rows of brownstones. Another reason is b/c as you go further from the Potamic River, the area gets more residential.


----------



## Zorba (Sep 7, 2005)

TalB said:


> On most shots I can find of DC, it's usually the SE end that is shown. The reason is b/c it's where the government is located. However, outside of that, the rest of the district doesn't have anything specially except for rows of brownstones. Another reason is b/c as you go further from the Potamic River, the area gets more residential.


Acutally the government, monuments are mostly located in the middle of the city or on the North West side. DC has a lot more to offer than simply the government buildings and monuments. It is a city, not just a tourist attraction. 

DC is just like any other city, but just a lot more important.


----------



## sydney_lad (Dec 6, 2005)

The giant ***** ruins it for me.


----------



## streetscapeer (Apr 30, 2004)

I think it's *Underrated*


----------



## UICist (Feb 24, 2006)

Nice architecture. It could learn a lot from Ottawa or Wellington, NZ, though.


----------



## NovaWolverine (Dec 28, 2004)

Lots of people are a bit tough on the District, most of the monuments are in NW technically, but the Capitol is SE. Across the Potomac in SE is the worst part of the city, NE across the river needs work too. 

"On most shots I can find of DC, it's usually the SE end that is shown. The reason is b/c it's where the government is located. However, outside of that, the rest of the district doesn't have anything specially except for rows of brownstones. Another reason is b/c as you go further from the Potamic River, the area gets more residential."

I somewhat agree and disagree, I don't know what outside that nothing special means. There are some beautiful residential neighborhoods all over the city, The area where the MCI center is, is pretty nice, G'town, Adams Morgan, Rock Creek Park the waterfront are too, I think most of these assets should be at least acknowledged, and it's more than a lot of cities have.

There's segregation, but more b/c of the rich people, just like with NYC, there is a middle class, but there also happens to be a high number of ultra rich people, outside of that, it's not nearly as bad as people want to make it sound, there are shitty areas with low class, but there are a lot of middle class areas too.

I also feel like if you haven't been to the city in the past 8 yrs or so, than your opinion is less meaningful and also if when you go, you only cover the gov't places.

All the cities that get hype on these boards, B'more, Charlotte, Atlanta, Portland, and a bunch of others, I really really don't know that they offer more than DC.


----------



## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

DonQui said:



> Not sure if I would make such a comparison. IMO Madrid is a more organic city where the capital's buildings blend seemlessly from government to private. Not to mention that Madrid's night life and likely Berlin's nightlife leave DC in the dust. And while the Smithsonian is a reputable SET (the key word being SET) of museums, aside of the National Air and Space Museum and some elements of the Museum of Natural History, its collection museum to museum in general terms is very mediocre, nothing compared to the great museum cities of Madrid and Berlin.
> 
> I would also probably not classify Madrid and Berlin as "second tier" but that is a whole other debate.


I diagree with you about the museum issue. With respect to the tiers, London and Paris are in a league of their own vis-a-vis European capitals followed by Rome and then Madrid, Berlin, etc.


----------



## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

DonQui said:


> For American standards it is fantastic. And when you compare it to other planned cities for federal countries (Canberra for Australia, Brasilia for Brasil), Washington DC wipes the floor with them.
> 
> However, I think that compared to cities in the developed world, it is not that spectacular. It changes to a fairly ordinary city almost immediately once you leave the neo-classically inspired federal buildings.
> 
> ...


There are many beautiful areas outside of the stretch of federal buildings. Georgetown and Foggy Bottom have beautiful colonial and Victorian Buildings, and Old Towne Alexandria has a magnificent collection of federal buildings. 

With respect to "planned cities," large parts of Paris were designed and built by Von Hausman in the late 1800's and are "planned."


----------



## goonsta (Sep 11, 2002)

UICist said:


> Nice architecture. It could learn a lot from Ottawa or Wellington, NZ, though.


Sarcasm?

From what I saw on my last trip, the streetlife easily is on par with a Toronto, Chicago, Montreal or SF. Also, this quarter, I believe ridership on the Metro surpassed the TTC, making it the 2nd largest subway system in the US and Canada. It does TOD's as good as Toronto also. 

DC doesn't have many brownstones, its architecture is among the most colorful in the nation. When you combine it with its urban form, craftmanship, and layout, its probably the best I've seen so far. There have been plenty of threads on it, but I always assumed they were just shots taken out of context, and the next street over probably didn't look like that. No. The next street over is usually more decorative than the last one. 

I see where Philadweller is coming from in his assesment also. Yet, by some of the ridiculous things said in this thread (too many to name), it amazes me how ignorant people are of DC.

I'll have the full photo thread in a week or two.


----------



## streetscapeer (Apr 30, 2004)

goonsta said:


> Sarcasm?


That's what I was thinking...must be sarcasm


----------



## deadmaker7 (Apr 28, 2005)

LLoydGeorge said:


> There are many beautiful areas outside of the stretch of federal buildings. Georgetown and Foggy Bottom have beautiful colonial and Victorian Buildings, and Old Towne Alexandria has a magnificent collection of federal buildings.
> 
> With respect to "planned cities," large parts of Paris were designed and built by Von Hausman in the late 1800's and are "planned."


 Adams Morgan is also highly underrated.

Even the "not-so-nice" parts of Dc still contain much far above average architecture. :yes: It's just not necessarily in the best shape.


----------



## globill (Dec 4, 2005)

i like it.....


but I can't help but think how much of it was built off of taxes......


parasties can be beautiful though......


----------



## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

I think Washington is a beautiful and charming city, and if it is under-rated,
it should not be so.....please take some pictures on your trip!


----------



## r2 (Jun 27, 2004)

dc is wierd ... but in a truly cool way. it's the more 'southern' than it's northern neighbors and more 'northern' than it's southern neighbors. it can be gritty, grimy and poorly maintained whilest simultaneously being immaculate, stunning and amazingly well planned. among it's residents are the poor and the powerless living within blocks of the world's politico-economic elite. it's truly sophisticated in an unbridled consumerist manner where one's familiarity with haute couture is measured equally with their appreciation of the arts.


----------



## Kiss the Rain (Apr 2, 2006)

seems like a bigger camberra


----------



## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

Kiss the Rain said:


> seems like a bigger camberra


There is a certain similarity in most government Capitol cities.


----------



## Expat (May 25, 2005)

It always amazes me to see how ignorant people are about the real DC. Everyone has visited DC and thinks they are an expert on the city. They love to parrott outdated conventional wisdom. Oh well, DC metro area can continue to be a best kept secret while being one of the most visited. My advise to everyone, get away from the momuments and government buildings. Experience the neighborhoods.


----------



## Evangelion (May 11, 2005)

DC is fun =) me likes the city.
adams morgan area is fun to hangout at. dupont circle is a gathering of all kinds of people at all times. the museams are nice. nice views and parks. breathable air. zone to zone cabs. georgetown's got lots to offer.


----------



## Toronto_boise (Apr 6, 2006)

Washington is overrated if you ask me.


----------



## Expat (May 25, 2005)

I don't mind if people don't like Washington or think it is overrated. That is their opinion. But, when I read on here the reasons people don't like the city, it is a joke. They don't get it. Whatever, it doesn't matter. Washington continues to race ahead no matter what other people think. Washingtonians can just sit back and laugh at all the ignorant notions people have. And by the way, they do.


----------



## Toronto_boise (Apr 6, 2006)

But the crime rates and the amount of violent protests against Bush just do not warrant a visit. I visited DC two years ago and the amount of backup from the protests killed me. Other than in Capitol Hill, DC's old treasure's are starting to decay. Houses are boarded up, and stores are starting to close.
Expect backups like this if you're driving: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K5YdC_jufc&search=Washington Protest


----------



## Wu-Gambino (Dec 13, 2002)

What? God forbid people don't agree with the way Bush is running the country. Besides, do you think those protests are made up of people just from DC? Don't drive in DC, the subway system is probably the cleanest and best operated in the US. 

I visited DC this summer (first time since I was a toddler) and was impressed. I can see where philadweller is coming from, it did feel too clean and you could feel the presence the feds have over the city. That still doesn't take away from the fact that DC has great neighborhoods, top notch transit, and beautiful architecture. Get outside of the Mall and you'll see that.


----------



## Archiconnoisseur (Nov 4, 2004)

I love D.C., but I'd like to see regional planners do more to reign in suburban sprawl. We need more density in the district, not less.

I'd also like to see city planners do more to reclaim the Potomac and Anacostia waterfronts. The roads around the Jefferson Memorial are very poorly designed, as are the roads around Lincoln Memorial/Kennedy Center. The running of highways around these cultural centers was a noxious idea.

The city should also tear down the Southeast and Southwest Freeways and run them underground. It should do the same with the Route 29 elevated highway in Georgetown. Finally, it should concentrate redevelopment efforts on Near Southeast and Near Southwest.


----------



## deadmaker7 (Apr 28, 2005)

Say, speaking of which I'm thinking about visiting there in a month or two. Now, I have a request for anyone. Name me a couple things to do, that are TOTALLY un-touristy, off the beaten path and unique. Can ya do it?


----------



## NovaWolverine (Dec 28, 2004)

They're starting to do things, it's good to hear talks, but I hope we can just say **** the nimbys and do what needs to be done, which would happen even with nimbys just later. 

As for the Whitehurst Freeway in G'town, Arch, there have been talks of tearing it down, re routing the traffic would be a problem, but to tear it down and have a beautiful and better G'town waterfront is very tempting. Also, as for the SE waterfront, this whole stadium thing and building a new bridge, that's what that is about. 

The Kennedy Center area infrasturcture is going to be redeveloped too, they're just trying to figure at what price. The SW freeway, ahh, we all hate it, L'Enfant Plaza has a big project coming to it too, but I hate the freeway. 

SE is getting a streetcar, it's an area that will become better, but it will surely take some time. 

"Other than in Capitol Hill, DC's old treasure's are starting to decay. Houses are boarded up, and stores are starting to close."

This is the ignorance that Expat is talking about, which I agree with wholeheartedly. There are some very very valid gripes about DC and it's atmosphere being a turn off for some, but there are some things like the diversity thing and some other things, that simply don't make sense. DC is certainly one of the fastest gentrifying cities, it has huge potential, there's lots going on, and washingtonians know it, there are cranes everywhere, the economy is good. The statement above makes it sound like this is a city on the decline, which it certainly is not. The crime, the abandonment, this is all getting better. And it's still as raw as other cities if grittiness is your thing.

DC is in a funny situation, people talk about cities like B'more and Pittsburgh and St. Louis, Detroit, Philly, and rarely mention crime or abandonment as a serious problem with the exception of Detroit and gush at all it has to offer the progress it's making. DC is somehow bad since you can't drive in it easily during the day, whereas it's the same case for most large cities. San Francisco Bay rarely gets railed for it's sprawl and traffic problems yet it's just as bad over there. The crime is bad, but while you'll defend the crime in your city by saying it's isolated and drug-related, it's the same shit pretty much everywhere. 

I agree with Expat, there's nothing wrong with having real valid reasons though.


----------



## Archiconnoisseur (Nov 4, 2004)

Homicides in Washington D.C. 1994-1995










This is why I tell most outsiders to stay in the Monumental Core, Downtown, and Northwest until they get a better feel for the city. The murder rate drops off pretty quickly outside of the District in all directions, although PG County is experiencing increased crime due to displacement of District residents.


----------



## NovaWolverine (Dec 28, 2004)

I understand why the perception is the way it is, but first 94-95 DC is different from now. And second, it's pretty much similar is most cities too. PG is bad, esp. b/c there are a lot of nicer areas that are fine, but are tainted by the shittiness in other areas.


----------



## furrycanuck (Mar 13, 2005)

Where are the non-Americans in this thread?

To a visitor from outside the US, DC is a ridiculous embarassment. It exemplifies everything that is horrible about the US- absolutely outrageous rates of murder, a city that all but declares its "preppiness" but manages to ignore the fact that it is predominately African-American and predominitely underclass, the similarly outrageous gap between rich and poor, exurban sprawl, slums and slums and filth and more slums, concierges warning hotel guests not to venture into huge swaths the city ("the inner city," that much-loved American codeword). 

I hate the city. It screams privilege and screams danger and human misery at the same time. The only worse place is Atlanta.


----------



## reluminate (Aug 3, 2004)

furrycanuck said:


> Where are the non-Americans in this thread?
> 
> To a visitor from outside the US, DC is a ridiculous embarassment. It exemplifies everything that is horrible about the US- absolutely outrageous rates of murder, a city that all but declares its "preppiness" but manages to ignore the fact that it is predominately African-American and predominitely underclass, the similarly outrageous gap between rich and poor, exurban sprawl, slums and slums and filth and more slums, concierges warning hotel guests not to venture into huge swaths the city ("the inner city," that much-loved American codeword).
> 
> I hate the city. It screams privilege and screams danger and human misery at the same time. The only worse place is Atlanta.


Wow. Those are some HARSH words, to say the least.


----------



## LA1 (Sep 12, 2002)

Chicagoago said:


> I live in Chicago, but have been to DC 9 times now. I absolutely love the city. There are so many trees, and the cities neighborhoods are some of the best urban neighborhoods I've seen. It's so amazing how much it's changed from the mid 1990's to today. I personally know of Chicago going through mind boggling change during the past few decades, but the amount of gentrification in DC is just insane.
> 
> I also noticed sharply how the different racial groups in DC seem to co-mingle much more than they do in other places. When I would go out to bars and social settings it just seemed that the asians/blacks/whites all hung out together in groups, and there wasn't as much of the underlying split seen in other places. I'm sure most of that comes from the fact the city/metro is so diverse, and that a large portion of them work in the same white collar industry. One thing I did notice is that it's a very "corporate" city, people seemed to always be "on" and wouldn't let their hair down and just party with a "who gives a shit" mentality. There was always the underlying tone that people were networking and trying to impress. I can see where it comes from concidering what the towns purpose is....but made it hard to relax and have fun like I do in Chicago.


I would have to disagree with your comment on gentrification in DC. Its much more visible in Chicago. First, DC doesnt have enough commercial strips like Chicago has. The yuppie hoods like Georgetown, Adams Morgan, Dupont Circle,Cleveland Park or Woodley Park are on small scales compared to places like Wicker Park, Lakeview, Lincoln Park, Gold Coast, River North etc.
The commerical streets like Conneticut or Wisconsin have long blocks of apartments, so it takes away space for more retail/restaurants. There arent many commercial east-west streets in NW either, where as Chicago has a commerical street every 3-4 blocks. DC is just too damn residential. Im not saying its bad, its just different. 

Two, DC doesnt even come close to the infill Chicago creates on a citywide level. Yes is a bigger city, but Im just disputing your opinion. The only city that beats Chicago for gentrification is NYC, possibly LA because of their size.
DC? I dont think so. Its not even close. Chicago's yuppie areas are bigger than DC and then some. What ever the next "it" neighborhood in DC is, its happening 5-10 fold in Chicago.
Wicker Park/Bucktown is spilling into Ukranian Village, East Village, Logan Square, West Town. Have you seen Grand Ave near Damen lately? Chicago Ave?


----------



## weill (Aug 9, 2005)

I believe that some of those pictures are mine :/ but they are common shots.

DC is a nice area, Ive lived there in some part of my life.


----------



## NovaWolverine (Dec 28, 2004)

I don't think it's a good thing, bragging about all these yuppie hoods, I certainly don't like it at a certain point. But I agree with the commercial thing. And furry canuck is just a jackass, so I'm not even going to respond to that. The fact that it's the capital and people have all these pre conceived notions of what that's supposed to be just distracts people from looking at it as a real city objectively like others in America are.


----------

