# PARIS - 2024 Summer Olympic Games | Games of the XXXIII Olympiad



## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Axelferis said:


> .Not so impressive when you have in mind *latest standards*


Such as U Arena? :| drool


:bowtie:


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Axelferis said:


> Sleeky design and funny design for restrooms where some players can't see the others ^^


What do you mean?? (oh et sachant que le terme _"restrooms"_ (que je t'ai vu employer souvent sur ce forum) signifie sanitaires/WC/toilettes/chiottes... ....pour dire vestiaires, c'est _locker room/changing room/dressing room_/etc. )


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## eomer (Nov 15, 2003)

parcdesprinces said:


> What do you mean?? (oh et sachant que le terme _"restrooms"_ (que je t'ai vu employer souvent sur ce forum) signifie sanitaires/WC/toilettes/chiottes... ....pour dire vestiaires, c'est _locker room/changing room/dressing room_/etc. )


Ah OK, thank you for this explanation. The original Axelferis's statement was a bit weird.
I don't remember what Bercy's restrooms look like.


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## Rover030 (Dec 6, 2016)

pesto said:


> Simple and elegant would be more like the LA logo. No distortions or double meanings; just a symbol implying higher aspirations and pureness of intent and spirit. She wasn't drawn strangely so as to spell LA or 2024 or anything.
> 
> Flippant and gimmicky (as I was using them) means that it is trying to be clever where cleverness is not called for. You have to search the logo for its meanings (Eiffel Tower, 2024). The idea you leave with is "isn't that clever!" not "my, that really reflects the Olympic spirit".
> 
> Not that any of this is more than my opinion. You may prefer the cleverness of the Paris logo. I am just saying that it is not appropriate for a brand that is associated with the idea of dedication to the highest levels of performance and to the unification of the world in peace through sport.


Thanks for explaining! Clever might be the better word for the Paris logo. With simple and elegant I meant to say that they only use two elements to create three meanings, the two, the four and the Eiffel Tower (not totally succeeding haha). I do really like the Los Angeles bid logo, I hope they can keep it as Olympics logo in some way.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

*Football/Soccer* competitions all around *France*:









©parcdesprinces



parcdesprinces said:


> [...]here are the 9 pre-selected venues for the football competitions (of which only 8 will be selected eventually [...]
> 
> *Finals:*
> 
> ...


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Rover030 said:


> Thanks for explaining! Clever might be the better word for the Paris logo. With simple and elegant I meant to say that they only use two elements to create three meanings, the two, the four and the Eiffel Tower (not totally succeeding haha). I do really like the Los Angeles bid logo, I hope they can keep it as Olympics logo in some way.


It does have a simplicity and elegance. Deco often gives that impression since it is basically a classical approach (physical and emotional restraint and an abstraction from the natural to the ideal) with its own characteristics. Colors are muted and harmonious. 

Again, there is an interesting contrast with the Paris logo, which goes with a more complex design, meaning through direct representational means rather than stylistically, and bolder colors. 

As I said before, an Eiffel Tower in the style of Picasso, Klee, Delaunay (who did many of them), Lichtenstein or many other modern approaches would have been nice and would more closely reflect the reality of what is going on in Paris today.


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## alexandru.mircea (May 18, 2011)

parcdesprinces said:


> *Football/Soccer competitions* all around *France*:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The same venues will be used in the same way to host both women's and men's football?


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Rover030 said:


> Clever might be the better word for the Paris logo.


I saw a bunch of reviews from professionals in the graphics field when that logo was first unveiled. Most of them were complimentary about and in favor of it. 

The varying personal tastes of people in that group, of people elsewhere, and of my own, of course.

2012 spent over $600,000 on what was the most execrable logo I've ever seen. But a logo produced by a presumably professional design firm overseen by supposed experts.

I'll never forget about reading that when one of the extremely complicated and very costly American space shuttles blew up during take-off (or re-entry?---forgot the details), the disaster was traced to a basic mathematical error made by - or never detected by - the experts at NASA. Several years before that, another disaster occurred when caution was tossed out the window and a space shuttle was allowed to be launched even though that day had overly cold temperatures.


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## Axelferis (Jan 18, 2008)

parcdesprinces said:


> What do you mean?? (oh et sachant que le terme _"restrooms"_ (que je t'ai vu employer souvent sur ce forum) signifie sanitaires/WC/toilettes/chiottes... ....pour dire vestiaires, c'est _locker room/changing room/dressing room_/etc. )


Locker rooms sorry :hide:


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

alexandru.mircea said:


> The same venues will be used in the same way to host both women's and men's football?


Good question indeed... but I think so. dunno


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

*Track Cycling, Modern Pentathlon (Fencing) & BMX* competitions at the (5K + 6K regarding the BMX hall) brand new *Vélodrome National/VéloPolis*:



parcdesprinces said:


>





parcdesprinces said:


>


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

http://time.com/4943235/paris-olympics-2024-terrorism-isis-security-threat/

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/10/anti-terrorism-law-boost-security-france-171002073720302.html

The world press has a couple of "good news" stories re the Paris Olympics, outlining how the French are beefing up their security and their ability to bypass the old rules in getting terrorists arrested.

Of course, this also costs money and invades civil liberties but that’s a trade off every country has to make.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

*Rugby Sevens* competitions at the (20K) brand new *Stade Jean Bouin* rugby stadium (home of the *Stade Français Paris* -Rugby Union Top 14- club):




parcdesprinces said:


> *(Part I):*
> 
> 
> 
> ...















More renders, pics, video and info: posts #804, #913, #1186, #1253, #1322, #1358, #1369, #1405, #1411, #1437, #1454, #1459, #1515, #1552, #1558, #1570, #1579, #1580, #1585, #1603, #1627, #1670, #1675, #1721, #1737 & #1776 (in the France Stadiums & Arenas thread)


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

*Rugby Sevens* competitions at the (20K) brand new *Stade Jean Bouin* rugby stadium (home of the *Stade Français Paris* -Rugby Union Top 14- club):




parcdesprinces said:


> *(Part II):*
> 
> 
> 
> ...














More renders, pics, video and info: posts #804, #913, #1186, #1253, #1322, #1358, #1369, #1405, #1411, #1437, #1454, #1459, #1515, #1552, #1558, #1570, #1579, #1580, #1585, #1603, #1627, #1670, #1675, #1721, #1737 & #1776 (in the France Stadiums & Arenas thread)


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

WOW! I had no idea that the exterior of the Stade Jean Bouin was so very intricate! What a beautiful building :cheers::cheers:


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ It's quite an architecture masterpiece©Rudy Ricciotti, indeed! :bow:


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

*Fencing & Taekwondo* competitions at the (7K during the Games) recently refurbished *Grand Palais*:


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Pah, that ain't got nothing on London's _gorgeous_ fencing venue!









(ExCel Exhibition Centre, London (photo: https://www.efp.org))

:lol:

I'll be honest, I didn't understand what I was watching when I went to the fencing at 2012. Of all the new sports I saw for the first time it was the hardest to follow for a newbie. Huge pack of French fans dressed up in striped shirts and berets sat next to me though, who were brilliant (and I assume, understood what they were watching).

And still a little miffed that, in their infinite wisdom, the IOC couldn't push forward the introduction of Rugby Sevens so it was a sport at London 2012. A little bit of flexibility to get 7s started in a Rugby nation would've made a lot of sense. Ah well.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

RobH said:


> A little bit of flexibility to get 7s started in a Rugby nation would've made a lot of sense. Ah well.


And that so called rugby nation would have been? Oh, let me guess: Rosbif-land :yes:! 
Am I right? 


Anyway, you're soooo 2012, Rob!
:runaway:


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

parcdesprinces said:


> And that so called rugby nation would have been? Oh, let me guess: Rosbif-land :yes:!
> Am I right?


Yep, the only northern hemisphere side to win the world cup :yes:


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

...


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## Red85 (Jan 23, 2007)

You just know with these venues and cities the've chosen for both games, it will be fantastic.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

It's funny how with friendly insults there is usually a seething hatred just under the surface. :lol:

They are fantastic venues; quite an architectural tradition on display.


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## Axelferis (Jan 18, 2008)

Excel center isn't a bad location! Jubilee line & DLR make it worth existing ^^
Just don't take an hotel night because City airport is a nightmare :lol:


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

*Field Hockey* competitions at the (10K during the Games) *Stade Olympique Yves du Manoir* (home (till next December regarding the pro Rugby Union -aka *Racing 92*- section) of the *Racing Club de France* multi-sport club & Olympic Stadium of the *Paris 1924 Games*): 












---


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## CaliforniaJones (Apr 9, 2009)

parcdesprinces said:


> *Ceremonies & Athletics* competitions at the (75-76K in Athletics configuration) *Stade Olympique de France * :cheers::
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm asking a question: how an olympic flame will be put for this stadium ?
There may be solutions.


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## Bobby3 (Jun 26, 2007)

Any rendering of Charlety as a baseball venue?


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Bobby3 said:


> Any rendering of Charlety as a baseball venue?


??? 

The Paris 2024 baseball (and softball) venue(s) will be at Marne-la-Vallée (aka ©Disneyland Paris). 

BTW, those sports have been added (again) very recently in the IOC' list...so...


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## Bobby3 (Jun 26, 2007)

Ah, I was basing it off of the English Wikipedia page.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

CaliforniaJones said:


> I'm asking a question: how an olympic flame will be put for this stadium ?


The Paris 2024 Olympic flame will be at the top of the Eiffel Tower! (=problem solved! :bowtie







Nah, just kidding of course...and indeed, you're right, good question dunno


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

CaliforniaJones said:


> I'm asking a question: how an olympic flame will be put for this stadium ?
> There may be solutions.


On top of, let's see, what would be good........hey, maybe the Eiffel Tower! :lol:

Damn, parc beat me. I should always read to the bottom of the thread.


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## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

Hopefully they won't be like London and only had it visible for only those that attended track and field or ceremonies.


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## eomer (Nov 15, 2003)

parcdesprinces said:


> The Paris 2024 Olympic flame will be at the top of the Eiffel Tower! (=problem solved! :bowtie


Great news: The best place for the olympic cauldron. Will be lighted from Trocadero.
Any picture of it yet ?


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

> *Petition calls for Paris 2024 aquatics venue to be named after Camille Muffat*
> 
> A petition calling for the new Paris 2024 aquatics stadium to be named after Camille Muffat, the London Olympic 400 metres freestyle champion who tragically died in a helicopter accident less than three years later, has already gained over 10,000 signatures.


https://www.insidethegames.biz/arti...uatics-venue-to-be-named-after-camille-muffat


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

http://macaudailytimes.com.mo/paris-2024-olympics-triggers-race-contracts-worth-billions.html

A nice article on the French contractors who sponsored the Olympic bid now looking for big profits from the construction and security contracts at the 2024 Games. 

The article also notes some political and bookkeeping issues. 

I suspect that visitors better get used to drones and not conduct any illegal transactions on the street. :lol:


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## ktaylor0 (Oct 10, 2017)

First post here after lurking for a number of years. Looking forward to following the preparation here. Been a few times to Stade de France in rugby, athletics and concert modes and always enjoyed the place. 

Watched the 2015 World Track Cycling Championships in St Quentin-en Yvelines from a few places around the track and the sight-lines can be great or very poor, especially if you're seated above the exit of the last bend. With the curve and the banking of the track, the riders disappear. They also had some humidity issues during the meeting with water dripping onto the track from the roof due to raising the temperature to reduce air pressure, but that was during the winter. I imagine the humidity issues will be controlled, but the sight-lines will be difficult. Would be interested to hear from someone who has been to London, Rio or other velodromes.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

swifty78 said:


> Hopefully they won't be like London and only had it visible for only those that attended track and field or ceremonies.


If the committees for 2024, 2028 and, for that matter, also 2020 try to do just the opposite of many of the things that were done for 2012, they should come out ahead.

Sebastian Coe and other people working with his committee, including the graphic firm responsible for 2012's logo and the movie producer who did the ceremonies, didn't do justice to the Olympic games. 

The event's successors in 2016 didn't help matters too.

However, attendance for 2012 was very good. So that one aspect of the games five years ago should be admired by 2020, 2024 and 2028 and is the one thing future committees should attempt to emulate.


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## eomer (Nov 15, 2003)

RobH said:


> https://www.insidethegames.biz/arti...uatics-venue-to-be-named-after-camille-muffat


There is already a swimming pool named Camille Muffat in Nice but I think it would be well desserved.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

http://thehill.com/policy/transportation/355169-paris-wants-to-end-sale-of-gasoline-vehicles-by-2030

Hidalgo hopes to get rid of diesel cars in Paris by the time of the Olympics.


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## ben77 (Sep 1, 2006)

parcdesprinces said:


> *Football/Soccer* competitions all around *France*:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Would be so nice to not see football in the Olympics..


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Per many sites, Paris is walking back its proposed ban on diesel vehicles and now is calling it just a goal. Local opposition was high and most commentators suggested it was going to be difficult to achieve (France is only proposing a ban on the SALE of new gasoline vehicles by 2040, which means such cars will be prominent on French streets through the 2050's).

So those planning to drive their diesel cars to the Games can rest a bit more secure.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

pesto said:


> So those planning to drive their diesel cars to the Games can rest a bit more secure.


Yep, but not inside the City of Paris' walls/périphérique ring road (thanks to Hidalgo). Just like it's already the case regarding the older cars (i.e. those purchased/built/manufactured before 1997 which are banned since last summer from City of Paris streets...thanks again to Hidalgo and her Greens/communists/far-left friends)


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.insidesport.co/paris-24-and-la-28-to-sign-olympic-twinning-agreement-0221102017/

A "twinning agreement" between LA and Paris re the Olympics. Mostly fluff about environment and global warming, but there may be a legitimate sharing of skills, techniques and information re marketing, operations, etc.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.insidethegames.biz/arti...n-olympic-twinning-agreement-at-mayors-summit

A bit more about the twinning agreement.

“The partnership will focus on three key areas: the fight against climate change, solidarity and innovation”

If Garcetti pushes these priorities he will become the least popular mayor in history. I would say that traffic, sidewalk and road repair, derelicts and schools are the only issues that resonate all over town. 

Of course, I assume both Hidalgo and Garcetti are more interested in state or national offices at this point, which means you have to get into the news frequently and talk about nebulous concepts.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.olympic.org/news/becker...los-angeles-2028-ioc-coordination-commissions

Some details on the joint Olympics Comm. and their agenda. In brief:

reduce cost and complexity
sustainability
innovation
legacy
each other’s experience
effective transition
inclusiveness

Of these, the only really important one is the first; the rest are either window dressing or buzz words.

The other really important one, security, didn't even make the list.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

UPDATE: *Tennis & Boxing* Competitions at the refurbished (15,800K + 10K + 5K...) *Roland Garros* stadium (home of the -Grand Slam- French Open):



parcdesprinces said:


> Progress of works (November 2017):
> 
> 
> *Project:*
> ...













More info, pics & renders, etc, in its dedicated thread.


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## CaliforniaJones (Apr 9, 2009)

parcdesprinces said:


> UPDATE: *Tennis & Boxing* Competitions at the refurbished (15,800K + 10K + 5K...) *Roland Garros* stadium (home of the -Grand Slam- French Open):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

Modern ans Sustainable Roland Garros will be a great place during the olympics. It's getting so nice.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2017/11/what-can-the-paris-olympics-do-for-saint-denis/546884/

A summary of leftist criticism of the Paris Olympics, with St. Denis as a focus.

Many of the same issues are raised in LA but seem much less cogent there given the fact of private funding.


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## Brenn86 (Mar 25, 2016)

As ever, you just come here for your negative posts about Paris, just for, in fine, say how better L.A is...

Anyway, real news for Paris 2024:

Tomorrow and friday, the IOC will be in Paris for the first Orientation Seminar.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Brenn86 said:


> As ever, you just come here for your negative posts about Paris, just for, in fine, say how better L.A is...
> 
> Anyway, real news for Paris 2024:
> 
> Tomorrow and friday, the IOC will be in Paris for the first Orientation Seminar.


You really should stop playing the fool. I link to both good and bad press in English that is not duplicative of what we already have.

In any event, as you can read, I am generally dismissive of the criticisms by the way I phrase the post. I apologize if your English is too weak to catch this.


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## N830MH (Jun 26, 2015)

Hey! Where the Track & Field, indoor Gymnastics, Basketball, swimming pool and a few other, as well. Can we see it?


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ I posted right here numerous pics (etc) of the said 2024 venues ... so, why wouldn't you read the thread? (just a suggestion, of course )


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## N830MH (Jun 26, 2015)

parcdesprinces said:


> ^^ I posted right here numerous pics (etc) of the said 2024 venues ... so, why wouldn't you read the thread? (just a suggestion, of course )


No, I did not read this thread. Can you please share it for me?


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ ??? Again, why don't you read this thread by yourself for a start. ohno


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

parcdesprinces said:


> ^^ ??? Again, why don't you read this thread by yourself for a start. ohno


Are we talking about the stuff on page 1? I think this will do it:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=2028304

Lots of gorgeous stuff there; the French almost always have a great sense of style.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

pesto said:


> Are we talking about the stuff on page 1?


Not only. I posted numerous pics & infos of several future 2024 venues all along this thread so far.



pesto said:


> Lots of gorgeous stuff there; the French almost always have a great sense of style.


well, we're French indeed, remember?  :bowtie:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...eaten-smooth-2024-olympics---senators-9914918

Sounds like a fairly minor annoyance for Olympics visitors. But it may result in some debates over how to allocate funds, mismanagement and the usual political stuff.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

pesto said:


> https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...eaten-smooth-2024-olympics---senators-9914918
> 
> Sounds like a fairly minor annoyance for Olympics visitors. But it may result in some debates over how to allocate funds, mismanagement and the usual political stuff.


Well, there's always Uber. :nuts:


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ Not to mention that Paris already has one of the best public transportation systems in the world..so... as Pesto wrote, those delays regarding the new lines and extensions will only be a minor issue for Olympics visitors.


*Paris transports*, existing network:

*Métro & inner suburb Trams:*











---


*RER & suburban lines:*











---


*All together  (Métro, Trams, RER, Suburban lines & freeways):*













P.S. And of course, there are also hundreds of Bus lines... (oh and the maps above are not up to date I believe, some new Tram lines & Métro extensions are missing if I'm not mistaken)


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

What's this?! Some deliciously delayed schadenfreude? So what say you, all the Paris 2012 supporters who went on about London's transport system and the risk of going to a city where one of the major transport routes wasn't yet built but which ran perfectly smoothly when the Games arrived as promised? Hmmmm? Hmmmmm? HMMMM? :dunno:

Paris will surely have no problems transport-wise even without the new additions, but it is amusing. 

It's also fun, since I've spent the past two years defending Paris from some of the more ridiculous LA supporters to slip back into a more natural (friendly) enmity. Six Nations this weekend PdP.


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## Axelferis (Jan 18, 2008)

aquamaroon said:


> Hey awesome new renders! However, does this mean that, with Arena 2 and AccorHotels Arena, the Stade Pierre-de-Coubertin will no longer be used for Basketball in the Olympics?


What is this sh** ?
Bring me back the ancient render :rant:


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Axelferis said:


> What is this sh** ?
> Bring me back the ancient render :rant:


opcorn:  


:devil:


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Totally off-topic, but why our dear English friend RobH is banned? :dunno:

I liked him.... 


Please, bring back him!! :colbert:


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

parcdesprinces said:


> *Football/Soccer* competitions all around *France*:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*UPDATE* :




*Nantes, "YelloPark" (40K)*


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.insidethegames.biz/arti...rst-day-for-ioc-coordination-commission-visit

Progress here with a couple of hiccups that are certainly within the realm of what should be expected. LA Olympic and US WC organizers are likewise changing plans here and there. Any pluralistic society is going to have to have discussions about other people's desires.

Of course, the press will focus on the problems since they are so much more entertaining. :lol:


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## George_D (Aug 28, 2012)

*Paris 2024 add new venue and tweak plans for aquatics events at Olympic and Paralympic Games*

Adding a new facility for judo and wrestling and the tweaking of aquatics events were among the key venue changes presented by Paris 2024 to the International Olympic Committee (IOC) Executive Board here today.

The alterations to the venue plans of Paris 2024 were approved by the Executive Board following a meeting today.

They come as part of an attempt from local organisers to reduce expenditure amid fears of soaring costs linked to Paris 2024 venues.

Judo and wrestling competitions at the 2024 Olympic Games in the French capital were due to be held in Bercy but they are both now due to take place at a temporary facility at the Grand Palais on the Champs-Élysées.

Paris 2024 claim to have taken advantage of the renovation of the Grand Palais building, planned independently of the Games, by adding a temporary venue for the two sports there.

it will accommodate 9,000 people, according to Paris 2024.

The move also means the Paris Arena 1 venue in Bercy will now solely host all basketball events.

The Stade Pierre-de-Coubertin had previously been planned to stage preliminary women’s basketball matches.

Paris 2024 officials also confirmed today the IOC had approved all aquatics events - except for the 10 kilometres marathon swimming competitions - being held at one Aquatics Centre.

The proposals were announced in June following an IOC Coordination Commission visit to Paris and were officially rubber-stamped by the Executive Board.

A temporary pool at the Plaine Saulnier site in Seine Saint-Denis site will host Olympic and Paralympic swimming events, as well as water polo finals.

A separate 50 metres pool, connected to a 25m pool, will house diving, synchronised swimming and water polo preliminaries.

Water polo finals were initially earmarked for marville, with the pool there now becoming a training facility.

Porte de la Chapelle, located close to the main Stade de France venue, has replaced Le Bourget as the home for badminton.

A temporary facility Le Bourget will stage volleyball.

The planned volleyball and badminton courts for the Games were described as "abnormally expensive" in the Government report into projected costs for the overall event earlier this year.

The final venue plan of Paris 2024 is due to be confirmed in 2021 following the decision on potential new sports from the IOC, expected in 2020.


https://www.insidethegames.biz/arti...uatics-events-at-olympic-and-paralympic-games


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## George_D (Aug 28, 2012)

*OJ 2024: three finalists for the aquatic center*

The Métropole du Grand Paris has selected three candidates for the design of the perennial pool of the Paris Games.

Project owner of the Olympic Aquatic Center project, the metropolis of Greater Paris has selected three candidates to submit files concerning the design, construction and operation-maintenance procedure of the aquatic complex that will face the Stade de France. This is one of the perennial constructions expected to survive the 2024 Games.
The site map slightly retouched

The selected projects are those presented by Bouygues Bâtiment Île-de-France, Opalia and Vinci Construction France. The three admitted teams will have to submit their bids in the spring of 2019 for an election scheduled for the end of 2019.

https://www.lequipe.fr/Tous-sports/...is-finalistes-pour-le-centre-aquatique/961828


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

I assume that none of these tweaks are of real significance for the look and feel of the Games? 

Can anyone explain how these changes affect the "soaring costs"? I'm not looking to criticize, just curious about why these would save money or make things easier or it was jut a matter of them not being available or requiring more repairs than expected.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

pesto said:


> I'm not looking to criticize


Of course you're not ^^ (LOL) ...Indeed, just a quick look at your posts in this sud-SSC-section.. and ... 



:hug:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

I do point out plusses and minuses on any issue. and, btw, I am a frequent critic of LA's city government, builders, residents, etc. 

At the moment, Paris is not an issue since they have been selected. Of course, if someone were to say that the changes come due to a failure to note that multiple facilities were useless and that costs were now, say, 2B higher, it would seem to raise issues. 

But I assume this is not really that severe and is in-line with LA's changes from one venue to another for reasons of availability, logistics or suitability.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Paris' new venues for 2024 have to be riot-proof!


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.insidethegames.biz/arti...-2024-days-until-olympic-and-paralympic-games

Bach pushes the idea of a public opening ceremony in the center of town. Sounds like a bad idea to me, but who knows. It could be very entertaining.

Otherwise, a busy day in Paris as a French magistrate raises the possibility of a legal complaint being issues against the head of the Japanese committee for bribery and corruption.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/11/world/europe/japan-olympics-corruption-tsunekazu-takeda.html


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> Paris' new venues for 2024 have to be riot-proof!


It is interesting how the French tradition of public demonstration carries on. Unfortunately, it does tend to mess-up public events. Some suggestions for the leadership with respect to 2024:

Macron: no new taxes for two years prior to 2024
Hidalgo: explain how proposed gentrification really helps the working class
Estanguet: forget about esports and talk about how his father played boules


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

parcdesprinces said:


> Totally off-topic, but why our dear English friend RobH is banned? :dunno:


When was RobH banned? He's usually very level-headed and quite objective.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Errr... yeah, that was last April and wasn't permanent. I tend to get a week or two of brigs each year for telling one troll or another to stick it where the sun does not shine. I'm ok with that.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> Errr... yeah, that was last April and wasn't permanent. I tend to get a week or two of brigs each year for telling one troll or another to stick it where the sun does not shine. I'm ok with that.


I usually get suspended or permanently banned for telling the same to the moderators. On some sites they are little more than cheerleaders for some indefensible position.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Me three. So I'm in good company.


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## Ioannes_ (Jun 12, 2016)

I just saw in a report on Autodesk Revit as a Parisian company working on the project of a building for the Olympic games in Paris (and was clearly *a pool*) that I found modern, subtle and light. I liked it a lot.


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

parcdesprinces said:


> *Football/Soccer* competitions all around *France*:


as a country that just hosted euro with 24 teams it will be a piece of cake, no matter what stadiums they select. 
I also do not see any reason for anything being built just for the olympics but hey ... it is france, so different logic there!


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ Not sure to understand your point here (?).. as far as I know not a single football/soccer venue will be built and/or refurbished because of the '24 Games.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ I finally completed my previous post above BTW, my Pesto . 

:bowtie:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

parcdesprinces said:


> So what, should we cancel all the global events hosted over here annually?? [EDIT: not to mention in all over western -and not so western included BTW- countries.. where, indeed, bombing & mass killings happens unfortunately, dude/mate, and even in the peaceful California...not to mention my even more peaceful rural southern France] ...
> 
> So, what? :dunno:
> --------------
> ...


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

pesto said:


> and now are trying to change the subject


No I'm not! 

But I guess you're right and I'm wrong! End of story! = Case closed since you seem to know France muuuuch more than I do.

:hug:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.france24.com/en/20190605-total-pull-sponsorship-plug-2024-olympics-over-eco-games

As Kermit said, it isn't easy being green. Hidalgo sounds like she needs the eco-freaks to keep her political life. 

You wonder if the airlines, car companies, energy companies, chemical companies, etc., are also getting skittish. Wine and tobacco are very suspect as well. Good luck getting rid of those in Paris. :lol:

The worst though is that sponsors in general may decide that risking getting pilloried by desperate politicians just isn’t worth the cost.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> Parcdesprinces. why are you questioning really a matter where it's better to be safe than sorry?


Hmmm, sorry I'm a bit late regarding your post...

That said, no need dear to use very big letters... especially since the guy was arrested and brought to justice... 


OH and BTW, the Interpol headquarters is in *Lyon* (i.e. the closest big French city from the neutral Switzerland..= just one of the several reasons of that international choice), not in Paris, you uneducated SSC-dear...


hno:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

parcdesprinces said:


> No I'm not!
> 
> But I guess you're right and I'm wrong! End of story! = Case closed since you seem to know France muuuuch more than I do.
> 
> :hug:


Thanks for the hug. 

Of course you know much more about France than I do. But really you don't need to be an expert to know that France committed to the IOC that they were upgrading their security for the Olympics. I said at the time that there was no reason to think they wouldn't do so.

Since there seem to be very few issues regarding facilities I would assume that security, some local politics (green, transit, poor 'hoods) will be the main things to discuss. And I doubt that any of these will rise to being of much significance. 

Likewise, I suspect that transit, some local opposition and a few decisions about venues will dominate the next few years for LA. Things won't become vicious until it is obvious that something or another is not being done right.


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## Rover030 (Dec 6, 2016)

It's an embarrassment that in two weeks we have the "Total Africa Cup of Nations", in the continent that will be hurt most by climate change.

Good for Paris and the IOC that they're getting rid of sponsors like that.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Rover030 said:


> It's an embarrassment that in two weeks we have the "Total Africa Cup of Nations", in the continent that will be hurt most by climate change.
> 
> Good for Paris and the IOC that they're getting rid of sponsors like that.


Then why not cancel the Olympics altogether and save thousands of flights and miles of driving? 

Or hold "climate summits" remotely? Mayor Hidalgo managed to fly to SF (and some side trips as well) to attend a conference on the environment. Kind of ironic.

All too many people see the mote in others' eyes and miss the beam in their own.


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## Rover030 (Dec 6, 2016)

pesto said:


> Then why not cancel the Olympics altogether and save thousands of flights and miles of driving?
> 
> Or hold "climate summits" remotely? Mayor Hidalgo managed to fly to SF (and some side trips as well) to attend a conference on the environment. Kind of ironic.
> 
> All too many people see the mote in others' eyes and miss the beam in their own.


Whataboutism. But yeah, obviously you should try to make these events greener, and that's what they are doing. Using the Olympics as a marketing tool for oil/petrol companies makes this pledge completely uncredible. Surely you can see that?


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## Axelferis (Jan 18, 2008)

Anne Hidalgo?
Hmmm...Could someone tell me which is the brand of the oil into her car?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Rover030 said:


> Whataboutism. But yeah, obviously you should try to make these events greener, and that's what they are doing. Using the Olympics as a marketing tool for oil/petrol companies makes this pledge completely uncredible. Surely you can see that?


No, for a true supporter of "green", they should be cancelled and the monster concrete stadiums returned to dirt. Likewise for the area around the Eiffel Tower. That is acting on principle (ala Rome, SF, Boston) not on political expediency aimed solely at keeping your job. 

Second best: don't allow visitors; only media coverage. Cuts billions of travel miles. But it would also hurt the Paris builders, hotels, airlines, restaurants, tour providers, etc. Every one of these are responsible for greenhouse grass production but Hidalgo isn't concerned, eh? She acts on principle when it suits her politically.

Or, we could just go back to not mixing local politics into the Olympics.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Constantly amazed that efforts to try to make the Olympics more sustainable annoys so many people here. But carry on... :|


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## Temporarily Exiled (Sep 12, 2018)

RobH said:


> Constantly amazed that efforts to try to make the Olympics more sustainable annoys so many people here. But carry on... :|


Yep, apparently if you don't do every single possible thing then you may as well do nothing at all. Treat oil companies as we do cigarette companies, they both have appalling implications for our health and wellbeing.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Temporarily Exiled said:


> Yep, apparently if you don't do every single possible thing then you may as well do nothing at all. Treat oil companies as we do cigarette companies, they both have appalling implications for our health and wellbeing.


Really? Hidalgo as the Joan of Arc of environmentalism? :lol:

Hidalgo was originally politically OPPOSED to the Paris Olympics (someone may be able to find the old French news reports). She then switched, presumably after voices came to her in her garden and explained how the city is actually run ("it's the money, honey"). The greens attacked her over this.

Likewise, the current articles make it clear she was taking a beating in the polls, the Socialists are getting fewer votes and she is changing her mind to woo the greens and save her career. 

So it's a bit naïve to say that this is anything but political power and opportunism.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> Really? Hidalgo as the Joan of Arc of environmentalism? :lol:
> 
> Hidalgo was originally politically OPPOSED to the Paris Olympics (someone may be able to find the old French news reports). She then switched, presumably after voices came to her in her garden and explained how the city is actually run ("it's the money, honey"). The greens attacked her over this.
> 
> ...


Sounds like the mayor of Stockholm (who is just 2 votes shy of hosting 2026); and a certain politician from Scranton-Delaware.


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## Ioannes_ (Jun 12, 2016)

I am surprised that one of the proposals for the aquatic center in Paris has not been leaked, whose engineering tests of the roof are being made in Germany and Spain. A metal and glass structure based on beautiful Parisian 1900 inspiration.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Will they put the new Aquatic Center on the roof of Le Notre Dame?? :nuts:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> Will they put the new Aquatic Center on the roof of Le Notre Dame?? :nuts:


Ouch! You are cruel. :lol:


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

https://worldarchitecture.org/archi...utVJFDWS3VSQIRIO32AkQSUsvV6xK14_s_5DIeQtH1Sio

:dunno:


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

RobH said:


> https://worldarchitecture.org/archi...utVJFDWS3VSQIRIO32AkQSUsvV6xK14_s_5DIeQtH1Sio
> 
> :dunno:


OMG! I wasn't far off then! :nuts: And I am sure a way can be found to add seats for 10,000 viewers at that height! I mean they built the Tour Eiffel 130 years ago, why not try something so daring again!!


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Further proof (as if we needed it) that if you have no talent, get your PR people onto the internet instead. :lol:

As long as we are into new technology, maybe Uber's new flying taxi service for LA can be adapted for Paris: "open the Rose Window, little buddy, we're heading for the Holy Water!!"


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.france24.com/en/20190614-paris-suburb-residents-brace-olympic-village-upheaval

Is this accurate? Thousand of destitute people are being forcibly moved out of housing so that athletes and officials can have nice convenient locations for the Games?

The IOC needs to wrap a better story around this asap.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ Hmm..not sure... Anyway, for what it's worth I've never heard about such issue(s) ..so.. :dunno:

But, if France24 tells so... then maybe it's accurate as you say/ask, especially since F24 is considered as a truly serious news TV channel/network, hence their very good reputation around the globe.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

parcdesprinces said:


> ^^ Hmm..not sure... Anyway, for what it's worth I've never heard about such issue(s) ..so.. :dunno:
> 
> But, if France24 tells so... then maybe it's accurate as you say/ask, especially since F24 is considered as a truly serious news TV channel/network, hence their very good reputation around the globe.


Thanks; that was the main part of my issue: are these guys mainstream or sensationalist.

At this point, I would just make sure that nobody gets interim housing that isn't BETTER than what he has now. The point is not to stir up activists and get them asking "why are we doing so much for the greens but abusing the blacks?".


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.independent.co.uk/trave...-2024-olympics-uber-ratp-france-a8963716.html

NOTE: This is also posted on the LA 2028 thread.

The Great Air-Taxi Race! Paris responds to the possibility that LA may have air taxis at their Olympics by announcing its own program. 

Personally, I would rank the presence of air taxis pretty far down on the list of requisites. But people must be tired of hearing about eSports and breakdancing, which somehow just aren’t “sports” in the same way that playing the air guitar is not a sport.

More generally, it is interesting how the Olympics are used by locals. In LA, there have been articles about how the costs of building or repairing the subway system, roads and sidewalks are “Olympic costs”. This works both ways: the Olympics cause the waste of money on transit and sidewalks; or the Olympics provide the benefit of improvements to transit and sidewalks. Same for vagabonds, housing, new plantings and now air taxis. It’s somehow tied to the Olympics, for better or worse.


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## Hamster53 (Jul 8, 2017)

pesto said:


> Thanks; that was the main part of my issue: are these guys mainstream or sensationalist.
> 
> At this point, I would just make sure that nobody gets interim housing that isn't BETTER than what he has now. The point is not to stir up activists and get them asking "why are we doing so much for the greens but abusing the blacks?".


 F24 is a "public funded" channel, they are not sensationalist but not mainstream too (the channel is not avalaible Free To Air in France!), i'd say "intellectual".


The French law for expropriations is clear, the Solideo is going to pay for the builduings or the land at the market price, the problem is that housing is a real problem in the Paris area so it's very hard to find interim locations who are very "similar".


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Hamster53 said:


> (the channel is not avalaible Free To Air in France!)


???

Of course it is... On the free TNTSat French satellite service for example (= On Astra in Europe)..; not to mention on all the cable, etc, set-top boxes.. + of course the F24 free apps on Apple tvOS, iOS, AndroidTV..etc.. on which you can watch it live. (+ Youtube of course).

So... .


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

parcdesprinces said:


> A little render of the *Boxing competitions* at the -temporarily covered- 10K Court Suzanne Lenglen (second court of the Grand Slam Roland Garros/French Open):


Is there any chance that Court Suzanne Lenglen could have a retractable roof built over it down the line just like at the Court Philippe Chatrier right now? If so, this means each of the Grand Slam venues will have at least two retractable-roof showcourts. Plus, I guess the organizing committee couldn't have the Suzanne Lenglen Court host Olympic tennis matches because it would conflict with its planned boxing schedule.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

/\/\ Actually Court No. 1 (circular) would seem better suited to a Boxing ring than Suzanne Leglen but roofing it might be a lot more expensive. But if Boxing has been kicked out of the Summer slate by then, then no worries. :nuts:


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Jim856796 said:


> Is there any chance that Court Suzanne Lenglen could have a retractable roof built over it down the line just like at the Court Philippe Chatrier right now?


Nope, not any single chance in the near future since it was voted (at the Paris council) =no roof on the Lenglen court ...while indeed it was already planned 5 years ago by the French Tennis Federation.. but the very wealthy neighbors of RG said NO! (and won*, as simple as that)


(*after a decade of appeals, not to mention they are/were the same regarding the new Jean Bouin rugby stadium (which is built now, but in a different way from the original plans/proposal), the new luxury Molitor swimming pool + of course the PdP stadium works... all of this in the same little area/district of Paris... mine.. = where I've been raised, and where I still own a flat :yes:... so, trust me, I know what I'm talking about in that regard/area opcorn


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## Hamster53 (Jul 8, 2017)

parcdesprinces said:


> ???
> 
> Of course it is... On the free TNTSat French satellite service for example (= On Astra in Europe)..; not to mention on all the cable, etc, set-top boxes.. + of course the F24 free apps on Apple tvOS, iOS, AndroidTV..etc.. on which you can watch it live. (+ Youtube of course).
> 
> So... .


 Yes but all of that is not Free to Air, what is called TNT!
You know that France24 is a confidential channel in France, they are not at the level of BFM-TV or Itélé, even LCI and FranceInfo have a better audience.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Hamster53 said:


> You know that France24 is a confidential channel in France,


Indeed, exactly because F24 (just like _TV5-Monde_) was not made/created for the French people of Metropolitan France... but for the very francophiles (or not) elites around the globe. As simple as that . ..

..aka "the voice of France* abroad".. if I may say so.

*And in four different languages today.. : French, Arabic, Spanish,.. (and... :hmm:.. oh, jawoll... "Anglish" as we call their perfidious language over here )


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1086127/paris-2024-new-logo

Finally! This is a hugely positive sign, albeit long after it should have happened. The old logo was backward looking. It said “we offer the same old, same old” just like your grandparents loved. Been there, done that.

It also seemed to say “LA” unless someone told you that it was an Eiffel Tower and a "24". 

I would hope the reboot focuses on the Greek ideal of balance or the Olympic ideal of excelling. But I would guess "no fossil fuels, shorter work days, live small" is more likely. :lol:


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

pesto said:


> https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1086127/paris-2024-new-logo
> 
> Finally! This is a hugely positive sign, albeit long after it should have happened.


At worst it's a couple of months late. Olympic logos are always released 5 years before the Olympics i.e. a year before the handover ceremony.

LA will release its logo in 2023 I expect.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

pesto said:


> I would hope the reboot focuses on the Greek ideal of balance or the Olympic ideal of excelling.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> At worst it's a couple of months late. Olympic logos are always released 5 years before the Olympics i.e. a year before the handover ceremony.
> 
> LA will release its logo in 2023 I expect.


This particular change may only be a few months late. But the idea that Paris should sell itself as the home of the Eiffel Tower was a much too safe and traditional choice in the first place for a city that has plenty going on and now has the Olympics as a huge opportunity to demonstrate it.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Bid logos are always safe though. They serve a different purpose from a fully developed host city logo with associated branding and fully developed 'narrative'. You're being critical of Paris for doing something every bidding city does, including LA's angel.

For the bid they wanted to remind everyone _Paris_ was being offered (and don't you forget it IOC!). So they went for the most recognisable symbol of the city and made quite a smart little logo.

For the actual host city logo they'll be able develop a different image more in line with what they see their Games as.

This is all normal stuff, taking place at normal times within the host city cycle. Nothing has happened "long after it should have happened".


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> Bid logos are always safe though. They serve a different purpose from a fully developed host city logo with associated branding and fully developed 'narrative'. You're being critical of Paris for doing something every bidding city does, including LA's angel.
> 
> For the bid they wanted to remind everyone _Paris_ was being offered (and don't you forget it IOC!). So they went for the most recognisable symbol of the city and made quite a smart little logo.
> 
> ...


OK, let's just say that some had questioned the backward looking focus and the leadership has finally made it explicit that changes are coming. Too early, too late, right on time; it's all OK with me.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

I never warmed up to the 2024 bid logo. It had an odd ambiguity about it, neither looking like a somewhat slick abstract Eiffel Tower or a graceful abstract "24."

I'm anxious to see what they present on Monday.

As for the Olympics logo for the soon-to-be-held 2020 games, it had been caught up in some controversy from the beginning. Personally, I liked the original version eventually scrapped because of allegations it had been plagiarized. The one they ended up choosing makes me think of the 1984 logo, which also had a somewhat overly slick corporate tone about it. The 1964 logo, by contrast, was among the best in IOC history IMO.

The 1932 logo, as a comparison, was an odd one. It looked like a photo of a clumsily sculpted figure of a young man holding up a garland. Or something like that.

I know the unveiling of the official 2012 logo in 2007 hinted at a series of poor choices from that day forward. So even a relatively minor aspect of an Olympics can give a sense of which direction an organizing committee will take.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> But I would guess "no fossil fuels, shorter work days, live small" is more likely. :lol:


Maybe also using a rainbow-color theme and something that gives a nod to the Caitlyn Jenners of the sports world?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

caesarq said:


> Just like every piece of art.


....or design or decoration.


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## Axelferis (Jan 18, 2008)

caesarq said:


> Just like every piece of art.


I wouldn't say that :|


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## CaliforniaJones (Apr 9, 2009)

Olympic village


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## PaulRubens (Oct 22, 2014)

A lot of stairs and no people with reduced mobility in these pictures. After all it's also supposed to be the Paralympic village.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

You might be a bit over-sensitive here. There are no healthy food options or medical aid stations or religious facilities visible either but that doesn't mean there won't be any.

In any event, there does seem to be a ramp on the lower level so it doesn't seem to have escaped the people thinking about this.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.france24.com/en/2019112...-partnership-france-hidalgo-paris-summer-2024

Surprise, surprise: Paris hotels don’t like Airbnb. Next I suppose we will hear that taxi companies don’t like Uber! :lol:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.citylab.com/life/2019/1...or-paris-mayor-hidalgo-rental-tourism/602410/

First oil companies, now Airbnb. It’s not often that the biggest problem the IOC faces is the politician who pushed to bring the Games in the first place. It would have been nice if Hidalgo had disclosed her variety of issues BEFORE Paris was awarded the Games. :lol:

A proposed addition to the agreement: "The IOC agrees not to engage in any business dealings which in the sole discretion of the Host City are believed to have any unwanted political, social, economic, health, cultural, environmental, educational or other effects with respect to any issue."


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opini...on-t-help-cities-gentrifiers-will-ncna1089936

All power to the people! And, of course, to their protectors, the transnational hotel corporations!

In the LA Olympics thread I posted this guy’s article asserting that the LA Olympics was basically an excuse for further terror attacks by the police against the working people of LA. Perhaps Hidalgo should have read that before bringing such a terrorist organization into her city. :lol:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/...ocal-regulations-on-airbnb-in-2024-says-bach/

“So France and Paris are free to take their legislative steps if they deem this as appropriate. We have explained this agreement is complementary to the offer of accommodation in hotels – the more traditional accommodation. We see it as a great addition.”

The IOC agrees that Paris is free to screw-over Olympics visitors by banning Airbnb and forcing foreigners to stay at the hideously over-price hotels. Bach seems almost apologetic for the IOC partnering with Airbnb to help out the 95 percent of visitors who can’t afford the costs of accommodations at the next few Olympics.

But I suppose no one doubts that benefitting the hotel industry is the basic reason that any city supports hosting the Olympics, n’est-ce pas? Talk about “socialism with a friendly face”. :lol:


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## Temporarily Exiled (Sep 12, 2018)

pesto said:


> https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/...ocal-regulations-on-airbnb-in-2024-says-bach/
> 
> “So France and Paris are free to take their legislative steps if they deem this as appropriate. We have explained this agreement is complementary to the offer of accommodation in hotels – the more traditional accommodation. We see it as a great addition.”
> 
> ...


Cities that aren't holding these events are still banning or considering banning AirBNB, because it takes housing out of circulation for people to work in, driving up rents throughout the city.

But nah, it's France, so it's a case of 'socialist man bad'. Talk about a nuclear take.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Temporarily Exiled said:


> Cities that aren't holding these events are still banning or considering banning AirBNB, because it takes housing out of circulation for people to work in, driving up rents throughout the city.
> 
> But nah, it's France, so it's a case of 'socialist man bad'. Talk about a nuclear take.


It has nothing to do with being a Socialist: Hidalgo has had a history of switching positions for political purposes (she opposed the Olympics when she ran for mayor, but changed her mind later, angering much of the left). 

Hidalgo is now in a tight re-election campaign. The Socialist Party in France has been very ineffective for the last few years. Hidalgo knows this and is going for the new politics/green vote. The campaign needed some populist issues and so she jumped on blaming Airbnb for high rents and high cost-of-living in Paris. 

The problem is she spent years wooing the Olympics and negotiated an agreement with the iOC which did not reflect anything about Airbnb. This is ample evidence that she does not give a flying fk about them; they are just a convenient political target. The problem is that it comes as a shock to the IOC who are supposed to be your hand-in-glove partners. 

The issue here is NOT long-term rentals or scams for avoiding local laws; Airbnb certainly has issues about that. The issue is finding reasonably priced housing in an extremely expensive city during a 2-week period during which the hotels will be charging astronomical rates. It turns out the real partnership here is Hidalgo and the hotel giants, not Hidalgo and the IOC or the renters of Paris.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> Also a faceless woman could be reminiscent of *"cherchez la femme*", which implies that there is a woman behind every problem or mystery.
> 
> .


My French professor (native-born French, from Nantes) claimed that there is no such phrase or concept in French. She claims it is invented by Franco-leaning Americans who didn't think they would be outted for making something up seemingly "Frenchie." :wink2:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> My French professor (native-born French, from Nantes) claimed that there is no such phrase or concept in French. She claims it is invented by Franco-leaning Americans who didn't think they would be outted for making something up seemingly "Frenchie." :wink2:


Never heard that story, but the point is that the phrase is part of popular culture in parts of the world and that dilutes the intent of the image.

Interestingly, my sense is that the image has sunk into the usual irrelevance that follows the excitement of its release.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Venue news...



> *The organising committee for the 2024 Olympics in Paris has today (Thursday) announced plans for a new 35,000-seat arena that will showcase urban sports during the Games.*
> 
> While Paris 2024 said it is too soon to confirm exactly which sports and disciplines will be contested at the venue, it promised the arena will provide a “totally new experience” and attract “new types of spectators”.
> 
> ...


https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/[email protected]


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

A bit more on the Tahiti surfing decision here. Looks like they've sacrificed total number of spectators at the event for better surfing conditions and better TV shots:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/dec/12/paris-2024-olympics-tahiti-surfing


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> Venue news...
> 
> https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/[email protected]


Rumor is that before approving surfing in Tahiti the IOC Executive Board will seek clarification from Hidalgo as to whether her Airbnb ban applies there as well, and if she has any demands re saving coral reefs, endangered species or the health dangers of exposure to the sun. :lol:

On a slightly more serious note, the separation of the "new spectators" sports makes a lot of sense. There is so much money behind these "sports" that they can be packaged as their own world tour with the right kind of management and the Olympic connection.

Even better, they may replace a large number of the older dying sports and events which have little economic value.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

That urban venue looks fantastic! And while Tahiti makes all the sense in the world as a surfing host for a French Olympics I do feel bad for the athletes as they will not be allowed the full Olympic experience of marching in the ceremonies and mingling with the athletes of other countries (_unless I guess they are flying express from Paris to French Polynesia?_)
Hope they can make it in 2028 when "Surf City USA" (_Huntington Beach, CA_) is all of 30 minutes from Sofi Stadium by way of the PCH! (though to be fair by comparison we won't exactly have a Versailles for the Equestrian events :lol


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

aquamaroon said:


> That urban venue looks fantastic! And while Tahiti makes all the sense in the world as a surfing host for a French Olympics I do feel bad for the athletes as they will not be allowed the full Olympic experience of marching in the ceremonies and mingling with the athletes of other countries (_unless I guess they are flying express from Paris to French Polynesia?_)
> Hope they can make it in 2028 when "Surf City USA" (_Huntington Beach, CA_) is all of 30 minutes from Sofi Stadium by way of the PCH! (though to be fair by comparison *we won't exactly have a Versailles *for the Equestrian events :lol


No Versailles but at least Paris is giving us Hidalgo as our new Robespierre with Airbnb in the role of Louis XVI. :lol:


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

aquamaroon said:


> we won't exactly have a Versailles for the Equestrian events :lol


Actually, there are 2 structures in LA that could pass as Versailles-like settings: 1. There's the Aaron-Candy Spelling mansion in Beverly Hills; and there is also another Versailles-looking building I think farther up on Sunset Blvd. or in Malibu. The Sepulveda Rec Area is quite a boring area.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> Actually, there are 2 structures in LA that could pass as Versailles-like settings: 1. There's the Aaron-Candy Spelling mansion in Beverly Hills; and there is also another Versailles-looking building I think farther up on Sunset Blvd. or in Malibu. The Sepulveda Rec Area is quite a boring area.


Those are certainly nice places. But Versailles has 700 rooms and offices for 100's of people, stables, greenhouses, etc. To say nothing of gardens by Le Notre.

I would say the most comparable building in LA (in terms of size, visual impact and decoration) is the Eastern Columbia Bldg. which is a gorgeous 13-story deco tower downtown. But it's not particularly comparable either since it was a department store not a royal palace. :lol:

For gardens and art work, I think the Huntington Library is LA's most comparable.


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## Nacre (May 9, 2016)

There's nowhere in the USA as impressive as Versailles. We never reduced peasants to eating gruel while aristocrats built palaces to awe the aristocrats from other countries. Just as we don't build white elephant Olympic Parks.

Los Angeles is a pop culture city rather than a high culture city, and that's what it should stick to for the Olympics. It can't match Paris in history and art, but it doesn't need to. It just needs to be itself.


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## BhamJim (Jul 8, 2009)

Nacre said:


> There's nowhere in the USA as impressive as Versailles. We never reduced peasants to eating gruel while aristocrats built palaces to awe the aristocrats from other countries. Just as we don't build white elephant Olympic Parks.
> 
> Los Angeles is a pop culture city rather than a high culture city, and that's what it should stick to for the Olympics. It can't match Paris in history and art, but it doesn't need to. It just needs to be itself.


Hmmm

Peasants? black slaves? Tomayto tomarto? 

Also, I think it's fair to say that when America was building skyscrapers and dams in yesteryear a fair few people met their deaths in what was a careless and poor work environment, brought about by aristocrats in what really was one big dick waving exercise.

and that was sometime after the palace of Versailles was built.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

BhamJim said:


> Hmmm
> 
> Peasants? black slaves? Tomayto tomarto?
> 
> ...


Really, was that necessary? Are you defending autocratic French dictators who slaughtered their way through Holland and Germany for decades taking whatever they wanted (to say nothing of the slave trade, colonies, etc.). 

The original comment re Versailles was rude and not a good idea, but is there a single person in Europe who doesn't believe that Versailles and the like were built based on theft, extortion, slavery, conquest, etc.? It's just a fact and did not require a tit-for-tat.


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## Nacre (May 9, 2016)

BhamJim said:


> Hmmm
> 
> Peasants? black slaves? Tomayto tomarto?


My point is that palaces all over the world -whether they are French Chateaus and American plantation houses- are built by exploitative societies. If a city's architecture is less impressive than Versailles that isn't anything to be ashamed of when you consider the human cost needed to build Versailles.

Birmingham is another example of a city whose architecture compares unfavorably to London simply because it was historically a working class industrial city rather than a center of an empire. But that should mean nothing for its ability to host an excellent Commonwealth Games in 2022.


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## Axelferis (Jan 18, 2008)

Knitemplar said:


> Actually, there are 2 structures in LA that could pass as Versailles-like settings: 1. There's the Aaron-Candy Spelling mansion in Beverly Hills; and there is also another Versailles-looking building I think farther up on Sunset Blvd. or in Malibu. The Sepulveda Rec Area is quite a boring area.


:rofl:
How can you compare the héritage of Versailles to your false toy façade whithout even 200 years of History?!!


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Axelferis said:


> :rofl:
> How can you compare the héritage of Versailles to your false toy façade whithout even 200 years of History?!!


No doubt Versailles is a wonderful palace and tourist attraction.

But why do you call properties built by people who started poor and worked their way to wealth by providing goods and services to others "false" and "toy facades". The contrast to the Capetian Kings of France couldn't be more obvious as far as the sources of the wealth, the status of the workers, etc.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Axelferis said:


> :rofl:
> How can you compare the héritage of Versailles to your false toy façade whithout even 200 years of History?!!


I've found that Versailles, like the pyramids, Ludwig's castles in Bavaria, and the Sagrada Familia basilica in Barcelona, to be NOTHING but follies of megalomaniacal rulers -- and contribute NOTHING socially to civilization and history. They are simply a waste of materials and space. So that's how I CAN COMPARE useless monuments to one, as pesto said, built of one's own hard work and self-made resources. hno: hno:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> I've found that Versailles, like the pyramids, Ludwig's castles in Bavaria, and the Sagrada Familia basilica in Barcelona, to be NOTHING but follies of megalomaniacal rulers -- and contribute NOTHING socially to civilization and history. They are simply a waste of materials and space. So that's how I CAN COMPARE useless monuments to one, as pesto said, built of one's own hard work and self-made resources. hno: hno:


I agree that the economic value of most monumental architecture is very doubtful. But I won't deny its aesthetic value. In the case of some of the Gothic churches or Sagrada Familia the results were stunning and not the result of a monomaniacal government but of dedicated people working on what they believed in. 

The two need to be separated or you will end up judging every artistic work based on some issue you have with the general milieu in which it arose. Throw out Shakespeare, Michelangelo, the Eiffel Tower and Guggenheim Bilbao in one fell swoop because of issues in the political, economic or social standards of the time.


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## Hamster53 (Jul 8, 2017)

pesto said:


> It has nothing to do with being a Socialist: Hidalgo has had a history of switching positions for political purposes (she opposed the Olympics when she ran for mayor, but changed her mind later, angering much of the left).
> 
> Hidalgo is now in a tight re-election campaign. The Socialist Party in France has been very ineffective for the last few years. Hidalgo knows this and is going for the new politics/green vote. The campaign needed some populist issues and so she jumped on blaming Airbnb for high rents and high cost-of-living in Paris.
> 
> ...


Housing is and has been a big issue in Paris for years, finding an appartment in Paris is very very difficult, so when you consider that a big part of the appartements in some "arrondissements" are only for rent on AirBnB (Paris is the city where AirBnB has the most offers!) you see the problem. Also to mention that most of the renters in Paris don't respect the French law who limits the renting of an appartement on AirBnb or similar sites to 120 days a year.

If you think Hidalgo is defending Hotel giants you're totally wrong


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Hamster53 said:


> Housing is and has been a big issue in Paris for years, finding an appartment in Paris is very very difficult, so when you consider that a big part of the appartements in some "arrondissements" are only for rent on AirBnB (Paris is the city where AirBnB has the most offers!) you see the problem. Also to mention that most of the renters in Paris don't respect the French law who limits the renting of an appartement on AirBnb or similar sites to 120 days a year.
> 
> If you think Hidalgo is defending Hotel giants you're totally wrong


Hidalgo's political record of switching from opposition of the Olympics to support under the influence of the hotel lobby is well documented.

Pretty much every major city in the world has had high costs of housing well before Airbnb existed. You have to be pretty gullible to believe the politicians that blame their own shortcomings on new housing construction on a vacation rental service.


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## Hamster53 (Jul 8, 2017)

She is probably still against the Olympics, she just had no choice Hollande said he was for the 2024 Olympics and with an opinion who wasn't firmly against she changed her mind when she realised that Paris had good chance to get the olimpics. When Hollande annouced that he was for Paris to candidate for the 2024 olympics, the next day Hidalgo organised a press conference to say that no decision was made. After with a governement and the CNOSF for the Olympics plus a public opinion not against she had no choice. But if you have some documents i'd like to see them, in the French medias i've found nothing!

I know that Airbnb is not totally responsible of the housing issues in Paris or other cities (Amsterdam, Milan or Barcelona have the same "problem") but now it contribute to get the situation worst.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Hamster53 said:


> She is probably still against the Olympics, she just had no choice Hollande said he was for the 2024 Olympics and with an opinion who wasn't firmly against she changed her mind when she realised that Paris had good chance to get the olimpics. When Hollande annouced that he was for Paris to candidate for the 2024 olympics, the next day Hidalgo organised a press conference to say that no decision was made. After with a governement and the CNOSF for the Olympics plus a public opinion not against she had no choice. But if you have some documents i'd like to see them, in the French medias i've found nothing!
> 
> I know that Airbnb is not totally responsible of the housing issues in Paris or other cities (Amsterdam, Milan or Barcelona have the same "problem") but now it contribute to get the situation worst.


My point is not critical of Paris or their Olympics effort which I assume will be excellent. I was just noting that Hidalgo was vigorously opposed to the Olympics; then changed her mind and worked for years with the IOC and hotel industry to reach an agreement to host the games, without mentioning any concerns with Airbnb. During all of this time (and for a decade before) housing in large cities worldwide was becoming more expensive; but Hidalgo never mentioned this or suggested putting the Olympic costs into focusing on these issues (as Rome, Boston, Hamburg, SF, etc., did).

The Paris hospitality industry has been a VERY active supporter of the Olympics because they make windfall profits. The IOC reached an agreement with Airbnb to provide for affordable rentals FOR TWO F'ING WEEKS during the Olympics in the expected super-expensive Paris hotel market. Suddenly Hidalgo remembers she is a huge opponent of Airbnb because they make housing more expensive for all the people of Paris. Even a fool can see that banning them for that 2 week period is a straight-up rip-off of money from foreign visitors trying to see their sons and daughters competing in a once-in-a-lifetime event, with the profits going straight to the large international hotel chains; and that it will have no effect on the overall housing market outside those two weeks.

More generally, check out some of the cities who have effectively banned Airbnb (and others) and who show no changes in affordability. Conversely, there are cities with virtually no Airbnb presence whose prices are going through the roof. 

I won't get into the real causes of expensive housing since it's off topic.


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## 1772 (Aug 18, 2009)

pesto said:


> Really, was that necessary? Are you defending autocratic French dictators who slaughtered their way through Holland and Germany for decades taking whatever they wanted (to say nothing of the slave trade, colonies, etc.).
> 
> The original comment re Versailles was rude and not a good idea, but is there a single person in Europe who doesn't believe that Versailles and the like were built based on theft, extortion, slavery, conquest, etc.? It's just a fact and did not require a tit-for-tat.


Sort of like Sherman slaughtered his way to the coast? 

This is so silly; I love France and America, why try to out-woke each other?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

1772 said:


> Sort of like Sherman slaughtered his way to the coast?
> 
> This is so silly; I love France and America, why try to out-woke each other?


I will assume you didn't understand what was being discussed.

What does Sherman have to do with the manner in which Louis XIV funded the construction of Versailles, or with the houses built in LA by various businessmen? I was responding to someone who belittled the houses they built out of their personal funds made during their careers as writers, artists, film producers or whatever. The funds used really were theirs as opposed to much aristocratic income which was derived from taxes, theft, oppression and the like.

Really nothing to do with either France or the US as a national entity.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

pesto said:


> No doubt Versailles is a wonderful palace *and tourist attraction.*


OK, tout est dit...

but, it is seen as much, much, much more than that for us, I mean us the [not so numerous but still] still well alive old French aristocrat families***... (aka _old money_ as you say in USian language LOL, don't you?)

:bowtie:


***Liste des familles *subsistantes* de la noblesse française re-:bowtie:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

parcdesprinces said:


> OK, tout est dit...
> 
> but, it is seen as much, much, much more than that for us, I mean us the [not so numerous but still] still well alive old French aristocrat families***... (aka _old money_ as you say in USian language LOL, don't you?)
> 
> ...


Yes. That was my point way back. As a social endeavor, Versailles can be judged as a product of a corrupt system; but that should not detract from its other values (e.g., artistic, emotional, etc.). In may very well have great artistic and symbolic value for the French (or regarding the French for the rest of the world), and for that purpose it is irrelevant what the system that brought it about was like.

Same should apply for work or art generally. It is only the totalitarians who view that nationalism or class warfare color every endeavor and that they can only judged by those lights.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1088842/french-language-paris-2024-olympics

Some concerns about the death of the French language. As background, this is largely the result of Jack Lang, who challenged Mickey Mouse on this issue 40 years ago. I won’t say things went poorly for Jack, but he hasn’t been heard from in 20 years and Mickey owns the children’s entertainment industry, Star Wars and is worth 200 times what he was then.

Now, re the Olympics, a spokesman has said: "At the IOC, the election of the American Avery Brundage in the early 1950s started a rocking. Since then, the institution has become 'Americanised' at the speed of light. Later, the 1996 Atlanta Games further accentuated the phenomenon." (I thought he was going to say “accelerated” but that would be difficult when you are already at the speed of light.). I guess the only good news is that the following Olympics will be in LA, where Spanish and Chinese are the growth languages.

He also said it was important to keep “multilingualism” at the Olympics (by which he means “French”, not, say, German or Arabic) in order to prevent English taking over as a "single thought". And showing his best existentialist despair he added "This opportunity should not be missed, otherwise everything will be lost."


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/paris-2024-carbon-footprint-olympics-paralympics-tony-estanguet

https://sustainabilityreport.com/20...-to-climate-change-says-paris-2024-president/

Estanguet takes potshots at the London and Tokyo Olympics over carbon footprint and heat issues.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

I think you'd need to be quite sensitive to take that as a potshot. The aim of everyone, everywhere is to reduce Carbon output significantly and there needs to be a yardstick; in this case it makes sense to use previous editions of the Games.

Whether halving London 2012's footprint is hugely ambitious given the comparative scope of the two projects, I'm not sure. If that is a challenging target for Paris, then London did a pretty good job.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> I think you'd need to be quite sensitive to take that as a potshot. The aim of everyone, everywhere is to reduce Carbon output significantly and there needs to be a yardstick; in this case it makes sense to use previous editions of the Games.
> 
> Whether halving London 2012's footprint is hugely ambitious given the comparative scope of the two projects, I'm not sure. If that is a challenging target for Paris, then London did a pretty good job.


You name London specifically, not anywhere else. You talk about heat and then you reference other heat problem areas like Asia.

In my world that is calling someone out. :lol:


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## OnwardsAndUpwards (Mar 26, 2015)

I don't read it that way. You can only compare with previous hosts. 50% target doesn't seem ambitious to me. Technology has moved on, climate change is a bigger deal politically now. They're not building lots of new stadia. Bit surprised he even bothers to mention including a public transport ticket with event tickets as they have been included at least since London 2012. I'm sure they have been for many events prior to that but I'm struggling to remember which.

Heat has the potential to be a problem in Paris but that is true of lots of places. It can be mitigated. At least they won't have to deal with smoke from forest fires like Melbourne for the Aussie Open Tennis this year.

What is surprising is that he appears to be admitting that Tokyo will be commercially way ahead. I can't see LA taking that view!


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

OnwardsAndUpwards said:


> Bit surprised he even bothers to mention including a public transport ticket with event tickets as they have been included at least since London 2012.


I know they were included for the new MARTA system in Atlanta 1996. I wonder when it started for the Winter Games?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Pandemic leads to fresh calls for a referendum on Paris 2024

Rumblings from some quarters re the need to rethink the Olympics in light of Corona and economic malaise.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> Estanguet takes potshots at the London and Tokyo Olympics over carbon footprint and heat issues.



Would be more impressed if he took a jab not at something as amorphous as "carbon footprint" but something more grounded and specific as dollars, bucks, moolah, pounds, yen, francs, euros - or whatever. Or something that represents hard-core income and expenses. 

However, he did later mention about a need to control the budget, but he sounded less enthusiastic about that than about the need to deal with carbon.

He can see that Tokyo 2020 has turned out to be another cautionary tale, even before Covid-19 entered the picture. So far, Estanguet probably feels comfortable he has learned something from that. But the clock is ticking for 2024. 2028 too. 

People like Casey Wasserman better keep their eyes wide open.


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## N830MH (Jun 26, 2015)

Knitemplar said:


> I know they were included for the new MARTA system in Atlanta 1996. I wonder when it started for the Winter Games?


No, it was Summer 1996, not Winter Games.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ more royalist than^^^^^^ some of you are...


...= you are , you grumpy & smart-alec guys...= enjoying yourselves I gues dear, as newbies USians migrants' etc (= @dearSSC more catholic than the Pope some of you guys are..).. ... tss.. & not even funny @ all) 


:🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺:








©PdP







(France was there ^^ BTW (under the olympic flag ..but still !!!!) 🤗👍😎🍟🇫🇷 🏳)


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Farewell Misha...


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Will be interesting if the IOC Youtube channel ever releases the international feed of openings over the past 50 years. I saw a bit of the 1996 games and noticed the lack of commentary from NBC broadcasters somehow made the event seem not as goofy and dorky..


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Hidalgo admits coronavirus pandemic raises "new tests" for Paris 2024 organisers

A friend in France has told me that Hidalgo is proposing limiting foreign advertisers and sponsors for the Paris Olympics so as to give Paris a chance to rebuild its devastated local businesses. This article seems to be referring to the same thing. 

Is this really something new or just repeating her political attack on Airbnb and tension with the IOC over sponsors? The IOC and local committee are the ones responsible and interested in revenue issues, but presumably she answers politically to the large French hoteliers, restaurants and traveler services..


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

pesto said:


> Is this really something new or just repeating her political attack on Airbnb and tension with the IOC over sponsors?


LOL.. is this a real question ??


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

The Airbnb thing is an existing issue that has unfortunately led to a clash with the IOC who are getting into bed with them at a time when Paris isn't happy with the company. Continued complaints is all I expect to happen here; host cities have no control over TOP sponsors.

The OCOG will have its own sponsorship programme separate from the IOC's TOP programme though, and it'll be this that they're referring to if they're going to restrict sponsors to French companies. This may conflict with EU law, I'm not sure, so if there's controversy that's where it'll come from..._that is assuming what your friend has told you is true, of course._


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

RobH said:


> The Airbnb thing is an existing issue


Don't know about AirBnB ... nor the link with Olympics in Paris.. but personally, yes, I must confess to you very important people (especially, you, Pesto LOL) the fact that, indeed, since almost a decade, my XVIe (_= very affluent area in Paname/Paris) _apartment, is indeed in lease (per week, legally*** & without AirBnB), for guys, couples/families/etc like you. = $$$$$$$ for me when I'm not in Paris.

Voilà ! 


***I pay loads of taxes about that ^^ BTW , really.  ...thanks to..


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

I understand that Airbnb is big in Paris and that Hidalgo has declared war on them to the point of speaking personally with Bach. I was just trying to understand if she has broader issues with non-French sponsors "taking business" from French companies. My friend was only speaking generally and wasn't familiar with the details of her comments and the cited article was very sketchy.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Opposition group petitions French Government to cancel Paris 2024 Olympics

"We cannot make our way towards a new world along the misguided path of the old one."

I can’t say I agree with the social thinking behind these groups, but it will be interesting to see what the host cities and IOC say and do about this. 

They have talked the talk of economizing, return to basics, etc., and now have a clear chance to put this into practice by cutting deep the number of sports and participants; renegotiating the size and costs of venues; eliminating costly entertainment, accommodations, etc. This would be in line with the new focus on sustainability, human accomplishment, usable legacy, etc., while not taking funds from other needed social expenses.

The concept is also consistent with decreasing large public crowds and curtailing mass transit usage, just as society now conducts business and entertainment by electronic media instead of in person.

(Posted in LA thread as well.)


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## Leedsrule (Apr 6, 2010)

If you were to cut down on the sports included, which would go?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Leedsrule said:


> If you were to cut down on the sports included, which would go?


If you are asking me, I don't have any opinions other than those with few viewers, high costs, etc. The IOC staff are the professionals and experts and need to make decisions. (If you assume that the years of free money at taxpayer expense are over.) It's really the same issue any operating company faces: if products X, Y and Z are doing poorly and have no future, you don't just automatically keep pumping them out.

But I assume others have strong opinions on this!


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## GunnerJacket (Jan 25, 2008)

Leedsrule said:


> If you were to cut down on the sports included, which would go?


Tennis and Golf (Have other, more important events that allow more competitors)
Sailing (too much equipment to be a primal sport, and also requires large water access not available for all cities)
Equestrian (similar to above)
"Extreme" sports, especially those require judges
Dancing (if that proposal remains alive)

Basically shift it closer to just track and field, gymnastics, aquatic events, etc. and the team events like basketball and volleyball that have been involved for a long time and use this as their de facto world championship. (Yes, I know men's basketball has their own event.) I also wouldn't cry if soccer was removed because on the men's side that's essentially treated as an afterthought and you can't possibly accommodate the volume of quality teams to make it a good event in just two weeks.

But that's just me.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

GunnerJacket said:


> Tennis and Golf (Have other, more important events that allow more competitors)
> Sailing (too much equipment to be a primal sport, and also requires large water access not available for all cities)
> Equestrian (similar to above)
> "Extreme" sports, especially those require judges
> ...


I'm down on pretty much all that. Get rid of technology, animals, etc., as much as possible. LIkewise for anything which requires a board of judges (as opposed to umpires, referees and such).

I also agree with basketball and soccer (and others) who have their own very well publicized and attended championships. But don't they make good money? We're back to the purist vs. business argument..


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

pesto said:


> I also agree with basketball and soccer (and others) who have their own very well publicized and attended championships. But don't they make good money? We're back to the purist vs. business argument..


Football certainly does at every Olympics, it won't be dropped. Most countries will be able to sell a fantastic amount of tickets and most will not need to build anything.

Basketball I'm not sure. As an indoor sport, I don't know how it stacks up financially if the city doesn't have a venue and needs to build anew. Even e.g. London's temporary venue for basketball wasn't cheap.

I've never seen a breakdown on a sport by sport basis, but it would be interesting. And I'd imagine varies wildly by city.

Speaking personally, seeing unusual sports you'd never normally watch is a major part of the appeal of the Olympics. I wouldn't really like to see it stripped back to just T&F, swimming and gymnastics.

But this conversation is somewhat moot in this thread. I can't see sports being dropped in any of the upcoming Games.


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## GunnerJacket (Jan 25, 2008)

RobH said:


> But this conversation is somewhat moot in this thread. I can't see sports being dropped in any of the upcoming Games.


Agreed, but it will be interesting if on the heels of such difficult and laid-bare bidding processes the Paris games are more up front about the financial realities of the events. It is, after all, getting easier for outside parties to track a lot of the financial flow for these things, gauge fan and media appeal, etc. Hopefully the Paris committee keeps such information and stresses front and center, if for no other reason but an intent to avoid another London Stadium-type fiasco.


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

footy doesnt belong in there, should be cut
same applies to all sports with expensive equipment


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

RobH said:


> this conversation is somewhat moot in this thread. I can't see sports being dropped in any of the upcoming Games.


Indeed!





#MyTwoOlympicCentsImeanMedalsLOL.

😀


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> Football certainly does at every Olympics, it won't be dropped. Most countries will be able to sell a fantastic amount of tickets and most will not need to build anything.
> 
> Basketball I'm not sure. As an indoor sport, I don't know how it stacks up financially if the city doesn't have a venue and needs to build anew. Even e.g. London's temporary venue for basketball wasn't cheap.
> 
> ...


I would assume that the real money comes from the broadcast revenues. But if a city doesn't have an arena suited to basketball maybe they shouldn't be bidding? It presumably becomes another white elephant after the games.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^^^^^^^ Sorry for the re-post... but it's sooooooo appropriate... (isn't it?) = sorry again if back in the days there was no English language on the banners at the olymypics !! 😋😋:




parcdesprinces said:


> ^^ more royalist than^^^^^^ ...... some of you are... [USians] :
> 
> 
> :🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺:
> ...


= Yep... even the ""devilish"" -USSR in 1980... wasn't that bad... compared to the today's so called leading Nation of the (outdated) _free [ & joyful multikulti ] world_ .. LOL (sad lol)

--


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

IOC Coordination Commission and Paris 2024 agree to examine new Games delivery opportunities - Olympic News

So, they have already made the games responsible, sustainable, socially conscious, and open; and now they will make them even more so. And a hint that the Tokyo limitations and changes will be carried forward to Paris. We’ll have to see what, if anything, that means.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

pesto said:


> I would assume that the real money comes from the broadcast revenues. But if a city doesn't have an arena suited to basketball maybe they shouldn't be bidding? It presumably becomes another white elephant after the games.


If we go down the road of _"if a host doesn't have a venue for xyz they shouldn't bid"_ we'll end up with 0 bids! 😂

No, if a host doesn't have a venue for a particular sport it either builds a new one with a post-Games use organised or it builds something temporary which can be cleared away afterwards leaving no white elephant. But even temporary venues are expensive for organising committees and would, in the context of this conversation, affect the profitability of an individual sport....

So, if you think cutting sports is a solution (and I'll point out again, I don't think the IOC is on the same page here), do you a) let host cities decide which ones to cull depending on their circumstances (with some core sports that aren't cullable i.e. more like the Commonwealth Games model), or b) does the IOC take an overview across several Games and work out a new roster based on that?

a) would maximise profitability for an organising committee, but you might end up with a host city like London saying, sorry basketball, we don't have two large arenas and gymnastics (which would absolutely be a core sport) is using the one we do have, so you're out. You'd need the whole of the sports world (NOCs, IFs, nations, fans) to maturely accept that in any given Olympiad, their sport might go. Is that likely? c.f. Birmingham 2022/India/shooting.

b) would be a refresh, but possibly no more than that. It wouldn't eliminate new builds or expensive temporary venues by any means.


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## Leedsrule (Apr 6, 2010)

RobH said:


> If we go down the road of _"if a host doesn't have a venue for xyz they shouldn't bid"_ we'll end up with 0 bids! 😂
> 
> No, if a host doesn't have a venue for a particular sport it either builds a new one with a post-Games use organised or it builds something temporary which can be cleared away afterwards leaving no white elephant. But even temporary venues are expensive for organising committees and would, in the context of this conversation, affect the profitability of an individual sport....
> 
> ...


I think there's an obvious Option C too though. Reduce the requirement of Olympic venues to be in the same location and of a specific size.If you could use areas in nearby cities too, or have countries/regions hosting Olympics rather than individual cities, it suddenly becomes significantly easier to host.

You could also have joint hosts, even across multiple countries.

Also with capacity - building a 60,000+ athletics stadium or 6,000+ velodrome might leave you with a white elephant, and I expect we will start top see a shift towards smaller, more intimate venues designed around broadcasting (see Juventus Stadium).


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Yes, of course there are other options. I was really just examining pesto's preferred option (which he's mentioned several times in many threads) of culling sports; how that might be done, and what compromises people and organisations would have to make.

I agree being _less prescriptive_ on venue capacity is a must. In some circumstances you'd end up not having to build a temporary venue at all if you have a smaller existing alternative, but current IOC minimum capacity requirements force new construction. In other cases, you'd lose ticket sales and that might wipe out any savings if it's just e.g. cheap scaffold stands around a hockey pitch. But more flexibility for each host to decide for themselves - *definitely*.

Spreading the Games out too much (over a large region or several countries) I'm less sure about. Using the odd expensive venue elsewhere (e.g.. a sliding track), sure, but I would worry about the Games losing their uniqueness if it moved too far that way. The recent Glasgow/Berlin European Championships showed TV trickery can make it seem much more unified that you might expect. But I'd still tread carefully on this one. My 2p worth anyway.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

If a city literally doesn’t have an arena usable for basketball (or other profitable and popular sport) they need to work around it; find another city to assist, build a multi-purpose building, etc.. The use of sites in multiple cities is part of the new agenda. For that matter soccer will be spread around France and probably LA/SD/Bay Area.

Cutting sports may not be there yet but they are edging toward it. I doubt that cuts will be from Games to Games; more likely permanent cuts of “events”, “displays”, “performances”, etc., that are not sports in modern parlance and draw limited audiences.. 

I doubt if many decisions are going to be made by host countries; they will be guided by the IOC from the beginning. That’s the only real way to avoid white elephants, waste and social and environmental issues.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

pesto said:


> more likely permanent cuts of “events”, “displays”, “performances”, etc., *that are not sports in modern parlance* and draw limited audiences..


Such as? I mean some niche sports/etc may not be popular is some regions/countries, but are in some others.. hence the issue in _permanent cuts ^^_. Not to mention that several of the said "niche" sports/competitions/etc are sometimes very important for some small countries (and their athletes) at the olympics which are for them the sole international competition.

Olympics (and their purpose) are not just about making money, you know, Pesto !


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

parcdesprinces said:


> Such as? I mean some niche sports/etc may not be popular is some regions/countries, but are in some others.. hence the issue in _permanent cuts ^^_. Not to mention that several of the said "niche" sports/competitions/etc are sometimes very important for some small countries (and their athletes) at the olympics which are for them the sole international competition.
> 
> Olympics (and their purpose) are not just about making money, you know, Pesto !


I think the point here is that all the relevant parties (Bach, the IOC board,Hidalgo, Estanguet and everyone else) recognizes that there is a need to reduce the level of losses and public contribution. I would assume that this is based on direct evidence that sponsorship revenues, expected ticket revenues and taxpayer contributions are going to be sharply down. Operating costs are already being reduced in various areas. 

The number of events and participants bloats every year. That's why cutting sports which attract little interest should be considered. It's really the same in every field of endeavor: funds are limited; you can allocate based on political influence and bribery or you can allocate based on how much it costs and how much interest there is in it.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

So in conclusion, we on this forum have no breakdown over profitability of individual sports, no way of knowing if profitability of each sport is consistent across host cities, and no way of even knowing if cutting sports would help enormously with overall budgets given you're losing not just costs, but also revenue.

Is there a danger some are confusing perceived popularity with profitability, with no facts to back up their claims? It's quite possible some popular sports are expensive to put on and lose money for an OCOG, whilst some niche sports make a neat little profit. And as I've said, I strongly suspect it varies wildly from city to city anyway. Without a breakdown it's impossible know, and we end up with people conveniently listing sports they don't like, claiming that getting rid of those would be some kind of magic bullet for solving everything.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

This is generally true in principle. That’s why I am avoiding specific sports.

There are 2 major approaches really: popularity/profitability and politics/bribery. The latter has been widely criticized. Applying the former is generally good management and effective use of resources.

The purist argument is different. Some believe that certain events are not "sports" and don't belong there at all. That is a different discussion. It can be handled at the same time but doesn't have to be.

If you are still talking about basketball, I would guess it is very profitable. The 1992 Dream Team is THE example at sports business conferences of how the Olympics could utilize the worldwide brand of professional players to their own benefit.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

No, I wasn't talking about basketball still, I was more referring to your post about performance sports.

Let's be honest here: broadcasters, the IOC, IFs, sponsors etc have no problem when it comes to the revenue they get from an Olympics. They do well. It's host cities who bear the costs. I used basketball as an example further up _precisely because_ it is undoubtedly popular and profitable for the IOC and hugely marketable. But if we're looking to take the burden off host cities as much as we can (which is what most of your posts in this thread have been about), we have to recognise that sports that are good for the IOC might be burdensome for certain host cities.

So...we either say..."these are the sports, get on with it", in which case you soften your mantra that everything possible should be done to make things cheaper for host cities, or we allow host cities maximum flexibility, in which case we'll probably see certain popular sports not happen every now and again.

I just don't think your idea of cutting a few of the more niche sports is going to be a gamechanger budget-wise. It may actually have very little impact.


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

RobH said:


> So in conclusion, we on this forum have no breakdown over profitability of individual sports, no way of knowing if profitability of each sport is consistent across host cities, and no way of even knowing if cutting sports would help enormously with overall budgets given you're losing not just costs, but also revenue.
> 
> Is there a danger some are confusing perceived popularity with profitability, with no facts to back up their claims? It's quite possible some popular sports are expensive to put on and lose money for an OCOG, whilst some niche sports make a neat little profit. And as I've said, I strongly suspect it varies wildly from city to city anyway. Without a breakdown it's impossible know, and we end up with people conveniently listing sports they don't like, claiming that getting rid of those would be some kind of magic bullet for solving everything.


true, but you do not need to have be insider to figure out difference in profitability between clay pigeon shooting and beach volleyball for an example 😀


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## GunnerJacket (Jan 25, 2008)

RobH said:


> So in conclusion, we on this forum have no breakdown over profitability of individual sports, no way of knowing if profitability of each sport is consistent across host cities, and no way of even knowing if cutting sports would help enormously with overall budgets given you're losing not just costs, but also revenue.


I know from the Atlanta experience the key issue was a venue's livelihood after the Olympics. As individual facilities the tennis stadium and indoor cycling center proved unsustainable, and the equestrian event center only endured by converting to a multi-purpose facility who's value lies as a hot-spot for mini-festivals. Recall those games were also largely panned due to the lack of public investment at the outset, so they're abnormal as far as Olympic developments go. The lesson seems consistent, though, in that the size and calibre of facilities demanded of the games can be really excessive and not every city has need of every particular venue. Athens, Greece had little/no use for a baseball stadium, for instance, let alone one of Olympic proportions. 

So I'd say it should be asked that regarding the number of events how many of them are almost truly universal and readily accommodated across the globe, but also to what extent should the IOC demand that any/ every venue be of a particular grade and size? Should Athens have been faulted if they built an exclusively temporary baseball venue? Should other cities be chided if their basketball arena only fits 10k instead of 18k? Sounds like these are the questions Paris is asking, which to me is a good thing. 



> Is there a danger some are confusing perceived popularity with profitability, with no facts to back up their claims? It's quite possible some popular sports are expensive to put on and lose money for an OCOG, whilst some niche sports make a neat little profit. And as I've said, I strongly suspect it varies wildly from city to city anyway. Without a breakdown it's impossible know, and we end up with people conveniently listing sports they don't like, claiming that getting rid of those would be some kind of magic bullet for solving everything.


No doubt, plus there's competing perceptions regarding popularity based on differing global tastes. However, contrast how the World Cup and the Olympics have each tried to expand their global appeal: the WC adds teams, the IOC adds events. And the IOC has been selective in what constitutes being worthy based in large part of that's sports appeal. Hence the reason skateboarding is a new event but wrestling was dropped, forcing potential Olympic cities into reactionary decision making.

Bottom line bidding cities should be mindful of the economics and the IOC should be respectful of the same.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> No, I wasn't talking about basketball still, I was more referring to your post about performance sports.
> 
> Let's be honest here: broadcasters, the IOC, IFs, sponsors etc have no problem when it comes to the revenue they get from an Olympics. They do well. It's host cities who bear the costs. I used basketball as an example further up _precisely because_ it is undoubtedly popular and profitable for the IOC and hugely marketable. But if we're looking to take the burden off host cities as much as we can (which is what most of your posts in this thread have been about), we have to recognise that sports that are good for the IOC might be burdensome for certain host cities.
> 
> ...


If there is no cost to niche sports, then keep them; but if they waste people's time and efforts and add little, cut them. And I have no issue with "demonstration" sports which have some local or regional interest. I doubt these are material in themselves, but could be part of a package that includes reducing the opening/closing ceremonies, shrinking villages, moving athletes in and out quickly, superior understanding of the market and revenue sources, etc. Again, just like any operating concern.

The cities can't get much say on sports choice or revenue issues. The IOC determines the events and will select cities they believe can host them effectively. World pressure has forced them to avoid economic waste at taxpayer expense, but they will not give the hosts any substantial control of marketing decisions (no matter how much the Paris hotels hate Airbnb).


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

GunnerJacket said:


> Should Athens have been faulted if they built an exclusively temporary baseball venue?


It was Athens' decision to go with virtually no temporary venues as they felt using them wouldn't be worthy of the Games 'Coming Home'. No other recent host, including Beijing (which actually had quite a few), took this approach. So the idea of going temporary for venues that aren't needed afterwards isn't new thinking at all. It's common practice, despite a few high profile examples to the contrary.

That's not the debate we're having here. The debate we're having is that for some sports (and I highlighted basketball), even temporary venues are a not inconsiderable expense. So...if we're really pushing the maximise profits approach pesto is advocating, should those sports always be guaranteed a a place? Is it fair to permanently remove smaller sports if a popular sport is actually a more burdensome expense for a particular host? Or should we go really radical and let each city decide which sports they host beyond a small core which they have to hold? All hypothetical questions, but all stem from things pesto has been advocating.



GunnerJacket said:


> Should other cities be chided if their basketball arena only fits 10k instead of 18k? Sounds like these are the questions Paris is asking, which to me is a good thing.


I hadn't actually realised but minimum capacity requirements were scrapped for 2024 onwards. So Paris is asking the right questions, because it can. I'm glad that change was made (you can see I was arguing strongly for it a few posts up!)


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## GunnerJacket (Jan 25, 2008)

RobH said:


> The debate we're having is that for some sports (and I highlighted basketball), even temporary venues are a not inconsiderable expense. So...if we're really pushing the maximise profits approach pesto is advocating, should those sports always be guaranteed a a place? Is it fair to permanently remove smaller sports if a popular sport is actually a more burdensome expense for a particular host?


I'm with you on this, just coming from a different angle. (I think!) As you point out the capacity requirements are gone for Paris so let them build just to what makes sense for them. If that means a hoops arena of 5k then so be it. If that means a cycling center of 100 seats then so be it.

That I could do with fewer sports is merely a personal preference. Main goal for me is my belief the IOC isn't taking the host city to the cleaners.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Paris has a v smart 6k velodrome already, no worries on that score. 🚴‍♀️



GunnerJacket said:


> Main goal for me is my belief the IOC isn't taking the host city to the cleaners.


Right. I'd also be a little more specific and say a big goal should be for the IOC to stamp out the perception that a Games can _only_ be done on a MEGA scale. Paris and LA should both help with that. Maybe once that's achieved, then they can start opening up to hosts with bigger plans again, but they need to still be careful to keep white elephants etc in check.

And I'm not against a refresh of the sporting programme. I'm just not sure it's a silver bullet when it comes to budget.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

redspork02 said:


> Both ceremonies opening and closing should be at SoFi.
> Leave Track and Field at Coliseum.



I realize this thread is about 2024, and that SoFi seems like it will be a perfectly fine stadium, but I still think the old-timey charm (some will say seediness) of the LA Coliseum is a a more fitting setting for a world where everything is now being dialed back. Reeled in from the spend-spend-spend, bigger-newer-fancier, over-programmed, over-scheduled mindset of the pre-Covid-19 era and the busted-budget Olympics of at least the past 20 years.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Work start on restoring organ at Notre-Dame to full voice in time for Paris 2024

So, should the IOC give money to struggling 3rd world athletes or for organs in churches in first world capital cities? Sounds easy when you phrase it that way, but a bit different when you are talking about Notre Dame de Paris and you may need beaucoup bucks from the government to get the Olympics put together..

Or is this the wrong question and should the funds be used for disease control, poverty, environment, etc.?


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ Please.. sorry but stop, just stop!! I actually hesitated between ignoring your off-topic (et tendance _bash-inesque if not francophobe_) posts about NDdP... or .... whatever topic in this thread from you...to be honest.


Pesto, you are WAY off topic regarding NDdP!! (& if you're truly interested in its reconstruction -except from your own very personal, insignificant & virtual agenda- (of which I doubt.. but.. ....who knows after all), then feel free to check these two threads on an architecture forum called SSC 😉😉 :

French sub-forum (in French): *Notre Dame de Paris*

Int'l forum: *PARIS | Notre-Dame Cathedral Reconstruction | U/C*










---------------

*BONUS (just for you my Pestounet (







)):*



parcdesprinces said:


> La Toussaint | All Saints' day
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*----BONUS II (still for you Pesto): *



parcdesprinces said:


> ^^^^^^^^ Bon, j'imagine que vous avez passé, tous, *OUI TOUS (et toutes, bien entendu !)* .. un bon Dimanche des Rameaux...
> 
> En attendant pâques !
> 
> ...





Happy? 🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿 ('cause yes this is a place of worship and pilgrimage... so your link with the Games is just... well... (as yourself it seems) ...anyway.. )


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

How could it possibly be more relevant? 

The article is from a site called "insidethegames", which examines *only* issues relating to the Olympic games. It discusses a commitment made by the IOC to provide funds to a major project in Paris which the President has committed to have done in time for the Olympics. 

Since it is not per se an Olympic venue, the donation is either something the IOC thinks is critically important to the games (doubtful) or something that will generate goodwill with the French and local governments, who are major funders; or with the people of Paris generally, who will think well of the Olympic Games and be less likely to oppose more funding cuts. 

(Btw, the organ is from much more recent times than the building itself. As for my feelings about Paris: it is one of the great cities of the world; and I love the churches, from St. Gemain-des-Prez forward.)


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Oh, by the way, I will be seeing both Rififi and Le Samourai over the next few days; two of the best films of their genre, French or otherwise).


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

pesto said:


> How could it possibly be more relevant?


If you (or an article) say so.. 👍 LOL (= _fermez le ban* _I guess (*as we say in French))




pesto said:


> Btw, the organ is from much more recent times than the building itself.


Ohhh , really ??????? (re-soupir)

...BTW ...believe it or not but I played on it !! (true !!!!)


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Anyway *@ Pesto*, I guess that (below) suits your tastes more? 



parcdesprinces said:


> Bon, ça n'est vraiment pas un chant de la période de Noël/Nativité.... mais, ... .. ....., ... ....... ?
> 
> J'aime ce chant!
> 
> ...


😇😇😇😇😇


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

parcdesprinces said:


> If you (or an article) say so.. 👍 LOL (= _fermez le ban* _I guess (*as we say in French))
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Impressive! I won't try to match you on Notre Dame expertise but I do know why one of the carvings on the front doesn't have his head in the usual place..


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

pesto said:


> Impressive!


Not that much actually dear Pesto .. I mean I was -a proud- member of a Catholic choir from 7-year-old till approx I was 25.. so indeed I played on it in order to accompany the said choir (and others) during some concerts at NDdP (but, to be honest, much of the time I played on the "smaller" (but still 😇😇 ) "_Orgue de Chœur__"). _😉

Voilà ! 🙂😷🙂


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

This made me laugh today (tangentially related):










<dons pesto hat>
_The French really need to sort out their security!!_
<removes pesto hat>


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## RMB2007 (Apr 1, 2007)

Dutch architectural office with its French partner Ateliers 2/3/4/ have won the competition to design the Aquatics Centre for the Olympics Games of 2024 in Paris. The innovative sports center, connected by a new pedestrian bridge to the existing “Stade de France”, will host competitions for water polo, diving, and synchronized swimming. It will also be transformed into a Boccia stadium during the Paralympics. Designed for multifunctional use, the only building to be built for the Games, will remain for the people in Saint-Denis, after the event.









VenhoevenCS and Ateliers 2/3/4/ Win Competition to Design the Aquatic Center for Paris 2024 Olympics


VenhoevenCS with Ateliers 2/3/4/ have won the competition to design the Aquatics Centre for the Olympics Games of 2024 in Paris.




www.archdaily.com





VenhoevenCS site:









Aquatics Centre Paris 2024 - VenhoevenCS architecture+urbanism


Aquatics Centre for the Olympic Games 2024 in Paris, designed as a sustainable, multifunctional building for the community of Saint-Denis.




venhoevencs.nl


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Do we know much about the venue for swimming yet? Are they going to risk an open air venue (which will obviously be cheaper) or are we talking something more substantial?


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## vino_93 (Nov 15, 2019)

Swimming will be in Paris La Défense Arena.


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## copa olympic (Jul 9, 2012)

--


> *Paris 2024 to consider scrapping temporary swimming and volleyball venues*
> By Liam Morgan Thursday, 17 September 2020
> 
> 
> ...


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## ayatollah2030 (Jul 9, 2020)

Why did they approve of Paris when they have to build 10-20 new arenas? We are almost in 2021. Even at Roland Garros there were big delays.

Hilarous stuff! Maybe Paris can host it in Romania or Hungary. 

Bucharest (Little Paris)










Budapest


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

Interesting development! I can't help but think of LA 2028's aquatic venue; also a temporary affair:












I thought this was going to be a major letdown for the Games as it would be the first time in a long time there would be no showpiece Aquatics venue... looks like it might have been ahead of its time! (That said LA2028 really needs to add a roof. I doubt FINA signs off on an open air venue for the Olympics.)


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

For reference, here is the original rendering for the Paris 2024 Aquatics Venue (to the right of the Stade de France):


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## ayatollah2030 (Jul 9, 2020)

Chapeaux!


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

ayatollah2030 said:


> Why did they approve of Paris when they have to build 10-20 new arenas? We are almost in 2021. Even at Roland Garros there were big delays.
> 
> Hilarous stuff! Maybe Paris can host it in Romania or Hungary.
> 
> ...


Actually, Paris was chosen because everyone else but LA had dropped out due to public opposition, and Paris was politically insistent on being given priority. Cutting a few of the unneeded facilities is the surest proof that they were never needed in the first place; think of this action as a triumph for the French taxpayer.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

@aquamaroon Paris' Aquatic Centre plan was split into two a few years ago; becoming a permanent water polo and diving venue alongside a bigger, temporary main swimming venue. So the news that swimming won't be at a new "showpiece" venue in Paris isn't new.

It seems they're now considering scrapping the temporary swimming venue entirely and moving that sport into an existing building, possibly La Defense Arena. This at least answers my question as to whether Paris was ever considering a rooflless LA28 option for the temporary venue (I guess they weren't).

Given that La Defense Arena is due to host gymnastics I don't know whether this will have knock on effects, or whether they're going to try something clever to fit both sports in there?


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

ayatollah2030 said:


> Why did they approve of Paris when they have to build 10-20 new arenas? We are almost in 2021. Even at Roland Garros there were big delays. Hilarous stuff!


You do realise when you say 10-20 new "arenas" (by which you mean 'venues') that most of these are temporary constructions that'll take less than a year to build and many of those are little more than scaffold seating? Paris is only building 1 new permanent sports venue.

The reason Paris was approved was because it had, and has always had, an excellent technical plan for the Olympics, dating back to its losses against Beijing and London. The IOC didn't want to risk losing Paris or LA this time by giving the 2024 Games to one or the other and starting a new bid process for 2028, so it instituted an unprecedented double awarding and, happily, we've got both.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

RobH said:


> Paris is only building 1 new permanent sports venue.


Actually two: The (u/c) new 8K basketball "Arena 2" in the XVIIIth Arr. & indeed the St-Denis Swimming/Diving Center. 😉

Oh and regarding the gymnastics you mentioned earlier, they apparently now planning to move it at the Paris Convention/Exhibition center in the XVth Arr. at the *Bercy AccorArena* in the XIIth Arr. .<--*EDIT (my bad) *

--

BTW here it is in gymnastics config' during the annual *French International Gymnastics Tournament 🙂 *:


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

RobH said:


> @aquamaroon Paris' Aquatic Centre plan was split into two a few years ago; becoming a permanent water polo and diving venue alongside a bigger, temporary main swimming venue. So the news that swimming won't be at a new "showpiece" venue in Paris isn't new.
> 
> It seems they're now considering scrapping the temporary swimming venue entirely and moving that sport into an existing building, possibly La Defense Arena. This at least answers my question as to whether Paris was ever considering a rooflless LA28 option for the temporary venue (I guess they weren't).
> 
> Given that La Defense Arena is due to host gymnastics I don't know whether this will have knock on effects, or whether they're going to try something clever to fit both sports in there?


Gotcha! Thanks for the clarification Rob; just as a quick 2028 aside I've also thought about if LA could do what Paris may do: repurpose an arena as an Aquatics venue. There's a brand new arena being planned next to SoFi stadium in Inglewood by the Clippers of the NBA team that wasn't in the original bid and would currently be sitting empty in 2028. Perhaps that could end up, like the La Defense Arena, as an Aquatics center? ...Anyways I'm done talking about LA 2028 here! Feel free anyone who'd like to continue this talk to meet in that thread. OK back to Paris 😎


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## vino_93 (Nov 15, 2019)

RobH said:


> @aquamaroon Paris' Aquatic Centre plan was split into two a few years ago; becoming a permanent water polo and diving venue alongside a bigger, temporary main swimming venue. So the news that swimming won't be at a new "showpiece" venue in Paris isn't new.
> 
> It seems they're now considering scrapping the temporary swimming venue entirely and moving that sport into an existing building, possibly La Defense Arena. This at least answers my question as to whether Paris was ever considering a rooflless LA28 option for the temporary venue (I guess they weren't).
> 
> Given that La Defense Arena is due to host gymnastics I don't know whether this will have knock on effects, or whether they're going to try something clever to fit both sports in there?


Last rumors : 
Swimming : temporary site -> La Défense Arena
Gymnastics : La Défense Arena -> Bercy
Rugby : Stade Jean Bouin -> Stade de France
Climbing : Place de la Concorde -> Le Bourget
Weightlifting : Zénit -> Palais des Sports
Boxing : Rolland-Gahrros -> Parc des Expositions
Volley-ball : Le Bourget -> Stade Pierre-Mauroy (Lille)

Handball might move too to Rolland-Garros (instead of boxing)
This would free both Zénith and Stade Jean Bouin. No more temporary site for swimming and Le Bourget.

More will be announced the September 30.


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## flierfy (Mar 4, 2008)

vino_93 said:


> Rugby : Stade Jean Bouin -> Stade de France
> Volley-ball : Le Bourget -> Stade Pierre-Mauroy (Lille)


These would be terrible changes. Paris 2024 promised to be the best Olympic games ever. But not this way. With Rugby in an athletic stadium instead of a purpose-built venue and Volleyball no-where near the host city, Paris 2024 will squander the chance to set the standard for resource-sparing Games.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ +1 regarding rugby.. Terrible idea indeed IMHO. 🙁


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Counterpoint to that: I've long thought it a shame (and indicative of inflexible thinking from the IOC) that Rugby was introduced in 2016 instead four years earlier with Twickenham sitting empty throughout London 2012. A sold out Stade de France for the short 7s tournament would be something to see, and - to be fair - we did just have a Rugby World Cup Final in a stadium with a track.

Up to 55,000 extra tickets sold each day over 6 days of Rugby (men's and women's) isn't something they should sniff at. And France is one of the few countries that _could_ sell that many tickets for Olympic Rugby.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ To be honest, Rob, Rugby 7s is not _that_ popular in France... That said you're right.. SdF could be filled during the '24 Games 7s tournament.. thanks to... much, much big fans of that rule than us Frenchies.. ...Tens of thousands of fans coming from a group of Islands located not that far from Paris/France 😉😉😉😉 ^^.


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## vino_93 (Nov 15, 2019)

Well, I've been to all Paris 7s events + the new Super Sevens in La Défense Arena. 
That's true Sevens isn't that popular (but it's quite ok, attendances were better than most of the Stade Français games ...), and I'm sure in Jean Bouin all sessions might have been sold out. 
But ... that's the olympics ! Sessions are shorter (I must admit that 10h 7s sessions from WS isn't that attractive for people), event will be popular. I guess for men, attendances will be quite ok. For women, I might be a bit more difficult to pack the stadium. 

And if Stade de France isn't very nice for soccer/football, it remains the national stadium of France XV team. It's a usual one for rugby ... I guess it's a wise moved if we have to cut a few euros (even if it's a disappointing one).

I'm much more angry for volley-ball ... now Orléans is on the rank too. But that's the same as Lille finally ...
I can only hope the new arenas in Tremblay en France or Boulogne-Billancourt (might be a bit short in time for this one) could be chosen instead of those ...


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## RMB2007 (Apr 1, 2007)

The organising committee for the Paris 2024 Olympic Games has proposed a number of changes to its venue plan as it looks to cut costs amid COVID-19.

Paris 2024 has identified three areas of review to optimise its organisation: the number of venues, the level of services provided during the Games, and non-event locations. Paris 2024’s board of directors yesterday (Wednesday) agreed new proposals on the venue plan.

The board of directors has agreed to cut two temporary venues in the shape of the Aquatics Stadium and the Le Bourget Arena. As a result, swimming and water polo finals will be held at the existing Paris La Défense Arena, with volleyball events to take place at another existing venue.

The Stade Jean-Bouin will no longer be used, meaning that rugby sevens matches will be moved to the Stade de France (pictured). Lille’s Stade Pierre-Mauroy will also be used as a host venue under the new proposals.

The board of directors have also proposed that the venue at Place de la Concorde be optimised for configuration, while the Games’ climbing site has been transferred to Le Bourget. A permanent legacy site will also be created following discussions with the relevant parties.

Additionally, the number of football stadiums will be reduced from eight to seven. The venue at Colline d’Elancourt has also been confirmed for mountain bike cycling events.

It has also been proposed that the Paralympic Games venue concept will be optimised by applying the revised Olympics concept. All decisions are subject to definitive approval from international federations, the International Olympic Committee and the International Paralympic Committee.

According to the AFP news agency, the venue changes will reduce the Paris 2024 budget by as much as €150m (£137m/$176m), with other savings in areas such as transport reportedly set to save the organising committee as much as €400m. Paris 2024 said the changes have been made to create “room for manoeuvre” as it seeks to control costs and deliver the Games within the initial €3.8bn budget.

The revised concept will seek to bolster the central role the Seine-Saint-Denis neighbourhood will play during the Games. While Seine-Saint-Denis will still host the same number of events, it will no longer require the use of two temporary venues, which, according to Paris 2024, will “add nothing in terms of legacy”.

Seine-Saint-Denis will host the athletes’ and media villages, which will be transformed into housing post-Games. Athletics events will also be held in Seine-Saint-Denis and Paris 2024 will base its headquarters in the neighbourhood.



https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/2020/10/01/paris-2024-seeks-to-cut-costs-with-reworked-venue-plan/


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Modern pentathlon set for new format for Paris 2024 Olympics

Talk about an opportunity to save money and reduce facilities and lodging. This is a no-brainer to eliminate.

I put it in the same category as vacuuming the living room, changing the oil in your car, braiding your niece’s hair and shucking clams. It’s interesting that you can do those things, but that doesn’t make it a sport.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Better supervised private security, a key issue before the Paris 2024 Olympics


BERTRAND GUAY via Getty ImagesBetter framed private security, a key issue before the Paris 2024 Olympic Games (Illustrative photo taken on October 29 by




tekdeeps.com





New standards for private security.


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## Kvn55 (Oct 10, 2020)

I don't speak english very well (sorry, I'm French). I think and I hope that Paris will be a beautifull place for Olympic Games. The town is marvellous and the world will discover the beauty of Paris (for those that don't know).


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Olympics branded a 'mockery' after inclusion of breakdancing for Paris Games


Australian squash great Michelle Martin says the Olympic Games have become a ‘mockery’ after breakdancing was added to the program for Paris 2024




www.theguardian.com





Not that I would vote for inclusion of squash, but he has a point. Maybe they could just take a few million from Dancing With the Stars and re-brand it Dancing With the Olympic Gods? Judging done by the viewers casting ballots. 

It could be held at the Moulin Rouge where you could also hold the Can-can competitions (female, male and mixed; short program, long program; etc.).


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Kvn55 said:


> The town is marvellous and the world will discover the beauty of Paris (for those that don't know).


Paris isn't like a Barcelona or some small burg that rarely gets international press and attention. If anything, Paris will enhance the Olympics, and not the other way around. 

However, as with Rio 2016, an Olympic games can bring negative stories and prove the law of untended consequences to a host city. Which is why the IOC needs France way more than France needs the IOC.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

India eager to field top breaking team at Paris 2024 Olympics


The All India DanceSport Federation will hire foreign coaches, organise workshops and selection events to build a competitive team ahead of Paris 2024 Olympics.




www.olympicchannel.com





If they can get 20-30 medals authorized for various styles, age groups, genders, etc., this could become a way to give away medals to small countries who would otherwise be shut out.

When judgement criteria become vague enough, it is easy to give the medals to whoever you want, as was done for decades in the other dance and acrobatic-related sports. In the past this led to bribery, decisions based on political alliances and resulted in shameful and embarrassing results year after year. But now it can used for the desirable cause of increasing diversity among winners, regardless of talent.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Exclusive: WDSF President says Paris 2024 critical to breaking's Olympic future


The quality of breakdancing’s Olympic debut at Paris 2024 – officially confirmed last month – will be critical in securing the event’s future place wi...




www.insidethegames.biz





The good news is that there is at least a glimmer of hope that breakdancing won’t appear at the LA Olympics.

The bad news is that even one of breakdancing’s top advocates admits there are many different styles (which is to say there are no styles, you just do whatever you and your buddy decide is cool); and that it really is both a sport and an art form (which can also be said about hopscotch and picking your nose or pretty much anything). 

As a result, there is no way of distinguishing good or bad (or even amateurs from professionals) other than using personal prejudices such as economic, ethnic, political or social standards. The natural solution will be to bring in as many different types of breakdancing as you can, with “local experts” acting as officials and judges. The winner will be effectively selected by shoe and clothing marketing companies who will pour money into ads featuring their dancers doing cool videos and fighting for social justice (while prominently displaying the advertisers brands).


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## George_D (Aug 28, 2012)

so we have . Correct me if sth i unsderstood wrong

Swimming : temporary venue -> La Défense Arena
Gymnastics : La Défense Arena -> Bercy Arena
Rugby : Stade Jean Bouin -> Stade de France
Boxing : Rolland-Gahrros -> Parc des Expositions
Volley-ball : Le Bourget -> Parc des Expositions
Handball: Parc des Expositions -> Stade Pierre-Mauroy (Lille)
Basketball Preliminaries: Bercy Arena -> Parc des Expositions


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## George_D (Aug 28, 2012)

Arenas that could be used also

L’Arena Porte de la Chapelle (8.000 seats)


https://ideat.thegoodhub.com/2020/06/01/jo-2024-arena-porte-de-la-chapelle-devoilee/



Le Colisée Tremblay-en-France (10.000 seats)


https://www.tremblay-en-france.fr/paris-terres-d-envol/aeroliansparis/le-colisee-964.html


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Man, this thread was berried! 
Looking forward to the presentation on Sunday! 
Good Luck!


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

redspork02 said:


> Man, this thread was berried!
> Looking forward to the presentation on Sunday!
> Good Luck!


Yes. Looking forward to Paris. The French not only have the skills and flair, but enough off-beat protestors and characters to make things interesting.


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## Axelferis (Jan 18, 2008)

The opening ceremony proposal is: event could be held not in Stade de France but in the center of Paris. From Seine river ( boats starting from Bibliothèque F. Mitterrand) to Trocadéro.
All the athlets making the défilé largely on boats.
The olympic flame near Trocadéro.
500000 spectators in this configuration rather than 80000 in Stade de France.


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## Jex7844 (Mar 26, 2009)

*Eiffel Tower will fly biggest flag ever for 2024 Olympics in Paris*









Eiffel Tower will fly biggest flag ever for 2024 Olympics in Paris


Eiffel Tower will fly biggest flag ever for 2024 Olympics in Paris




thelevantnews.com


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## MGM (Dec 10, 2007)

Jex7844 said:


> *Eiffel Tower will fly biggest flag ever for 2024 Olympics in Paris*
> 
> 
> 
> ...




__
http://instagr.am/p/CSRQSw6DaCR/


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## Jex7844 (Mar 26, 2009)

Tony Estanguet said a few minutes ago that due to a strong wind over Paris today, the giant flag won't be unfolded 😩...they will show instead a recorded video with the flag shot a few days ago.

Though, the "Patrouille de France" ✈🛩 will fly live over the Eiffel Tower (below, yesterday's rehearsals). 😉









@valentin Yvon


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Jex7844 said:


> Tony Estanguet said a few minutes ago that due to a strong wind over Paris today, the giant flag won't be unfolded


OMG, I was sooo tempted to do a joke about the world's biggest white sheet yesterday but resisted. Finding it even harder now. 🤐

Good luck Paris, the mantle will be handed to you very shortly. And jokes aside, and no matter how much it upsets californiadreams, I want you guys to just go ***** nuts in three years. Put on the biggest party the world has seen, surreal, silly, over the top, and full houses. It's what we all need. Vive la France!


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## Jex7844 (Mar 26, 2009)

Thank you Rob, well done to 'Team GB' for their amazing achievements once again at the Olympics! You guys put on an incredible show in 2012, this is now Paris' turn .


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

For some reason, this drone display wasn't shown at the point of the ceremony it should've been shown (certainly not on the feed the BBC were using anyway, did any of you guys see it live?)...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1424351469541609476


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## CxIxMaN (Jun 12, 2009)

Was it after the French national anthem and flag raising?


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## CxIxMaN (Jun 12, 2009)

This was the intro video shown at the closing ceremony


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## Axelferis (Jan 18, 2008)

The clip was truly amazing! What an emotion in live thinking it's up to France to welcome the world this time around 😢


@RobH 

Ok for this time. The "war" will start again in another occasion.


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## Jex7844 (Mar 26, 2009)

RobH said:


> For some reason, this drone display wasn't shown at the point of the ceremony it should've been shown (certainly not on the feed the BBC were using anyway, did any of you guys see it live?)...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1424351469541609476


I didn't see this, cheers!


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

yepp, amazing videos, and drones were already highlight of the opening!

same feeling as when jimmy paige and leona lewis played in birds nest …. you don‘t wanna wait those four (three) years!


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> And jokes aside, and no matter how much it upsets californiadreams, I want you guys to just go ***** nuts in three years. Put on the biggest party the world has seen, surreal, silly, over the top, and full houses. It's what we all need. Vive la France!



Hey, if the 2024 OOC have SRO venues and keep their budget under control, they'll be one up on 2012, ahead of 2016 and right up there with 1996.


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## MarkLanegan (May 20, 2013)

Ah, Paris 2024. 
The memory of France 1998 and 2016 still roars until this day. 
Hope, for men's football match, most of PSG players nowadays will get their chance to represent their own country! Hope Mbappe will be Les Bleus captain!


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Jex7844 said:


> *Eiffel Tower will fly biggest flag ever for 2024 Olympics in Paris*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Making a flag the size of a football field seems oddly inconsistent with the ecologic emphasis that had previously prevailed in Paris Olympic PR and HIdalgo's policies (zero emissions, electric cars, pedestrian zones, recycling venues, etc.). Is something changing?


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> Making a flag the size of a football field seems oddly inconsistent with the ecologic emphasis



Speaking of which, I imagine the carbon footprint that went into manufacturing all that fabric was kind of sizeable.

Tony Estangue, please reel it in. You and Casey Wasserman can do an even bigger favor to everyone if you have a virtual Olympics. Zoom.com-room games will eliminate the need for carbon-hog construction projects and carbon-hog jet travel.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> Speaking of which, I imagine the carbon footprint that went into manufacturing all that fabric was kind of sizeable.
> 
> Tony Estangue, please reel it in. You and Casey Wasserman can do an even bigger favor to everyone if you have a virtual Olympics. Zoom.com-room games will eliminate the need for carbon-hog construction projects and carbon-hog jet travel.


Yes. Rome and others mentioned this specifically: Olympics should be without fans or IOC personnel attending and only the minimum number of athletes allowed. Sports with regional interest should be played regionally.

But so as to generate tourism, Paris and Mayor Hidalgo planned to hold a full Olympics but strive for "zero emissions" and minimize ecological damage. I am now wondering if the demographic reports show that environmentalism is deceasing as a buzz word and the Paris games have decided to change tactics to attract viewers.


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## George_D (Aug 28, 2012)

is there any possibility to bring handball competition to Paris?


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Thought it was great! Beautiful city. 
Nontraditional at the closing ceremony site due to CoViD, but you made it work! 
Awesome!


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## RMB2007 (Apr 1, 2007)

Paris 2024 has selected Stade Pierre-Mauroy, the home of Ligue 1 football club Lille OSC, as the new destination for basketball preliminary rounds during the Olympic Games following a backlash against the originally planned venue.









Paris 2024 chooses Stade Pierre-Mauroy as new basketball venue


Paris 2024 has selected Stade Pierre-Mauroy, the home of Ligue 1 football club Lille OSC, as the new destination for...




www.thestadiumbusiness.com


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## George_D (Aug 28, 2012)

handball finals will stay at Lille stadium??


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ Nope at Bercy AFAIK (but I'm not sure..I must admit)


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

*Badmington & Rythmic Gymnastics* venue *[NEW U/C]:*

-

^^From myself in the French forum :

*Adidas Arena







*

"Plans (non-postés je crois ici ??) "précis" -en tt cas toujours mieux que les approx' rendus dispo en ligne- des deux jauges maximum -sports et spectacles- [...] :

(vous pouvez cliquer puis zoomer, si vous le souhaitez, pour les voir au siège près 🙂)





















*Adidas Arena Paris *








*"*



parcdesprinces said:


> [...]


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## George_D (Aug 28, 2012)

parcdesprinces said:


> ^^ Nope at Bercy AFAIK (but I'm not sure..I must admit)


Bercy will take Basketball finals


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^Indeed, apparently the whole Handball Tournament will be played in Lille_ 👍👍:








_

---------------------

*Lille,







Arena :*











©PdP for the (UEFA Euro) SSC-collage above 😇.
--























--








--























--









*







Arena








*


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

Just curious between handball and basketball which one is more popular in France?


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ Well, at national team level it's Handball for sure (since our team leads (may I write "rules") the World for over two decades now).





parcdesprinces said:


> *[...]
> 
> France men's national Handball team achievements*  (aka the best team ever in Handball history :bowtie::bowtie::bowtie:
> 
> ...



---

That said, at club level.. it's a complet, and much more complicated, different story, since most of our great teams (Basketball and/or Handball) are located in middle-sized -if not small- towns (set aside cites like Montpellier in southern France, and few others)... which mean not very gigantic attendances, to say the least LOL.

= In other words, that depends of the town/city/area/region, you're living in.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^Just for you, dear @aquamaroon  :

Enjoy!


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

Thanks!


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

You have omitted petanque!!! In the US you can see the local French groups using the bocce courts which many Italian cultural clubs put in.


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## vino_93 (Nov 15, 2019)

parcdesprinces said:


> ^^Indeed, apparently the whole Handball Tournament will be played in Lille_ 👍👍:
> 
> View attachment 3508577
> _


Handball preliminaries are in Porte de Versailles while basketball is at Lille. Then Basketball is back to Paris for last rounds (Bercy) while handball goes to Lille.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ Ah, OK, thanks for the clarification.


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## George_D (Aug 28, 2012)

vino_93 said:


> Handball preliminaries are in Porte de Versailles while basketball is at Lille. Then Basketball is back to Paris for last rounds (Bercy) while handball goes to Lille.


the strange for basketball will be that prelims will be played in bigger venue than the finals...


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## Hourdel (Sep 5, 2021)

Update of the Centre Aquatique. A pedestrian bridge was installed this week above the motorway. The diving platforms can already be seen :


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ Thanks dear @Hourdel   (!!!)

= asked by myself to @Hourdel to repost ^^ over here on this thread (may I wrote: MY thread! LOL) .. in order, I admit, to calm down some non-officially(but still) SSC-France-haters users of this board.

So: Thanks again dear @Hourdel 😍🥰


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)




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## ZeusUpsistos (Jun 26, 2017)

*Centre aquatique Olympique*


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## ZeusUpsistos (Jun 26, 2017)

*Village des Athlètes*
































































Arthur Weidmann​


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## cheuplavinia (5 mo ago)

The Paris 2024 Main Press Centre will now be situated at the Palais des Congrès. The shooting competitions will be held in Châteauroux, the existing French National Shooting Centre, which will leave a strong legacy for the sport in France. And the North Paris Arena in Villepinte was approved as the venue for the boxing preliminaries and fencing ranking round of modern pentathlon.



https://olympics.com/ioc/news/venue-changes-for-paris-2024-approved-by-ioc-executive-board


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## AustralianFan (May 1, 2021)

This is the Marathon course at Paris 2024.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577666300096270336


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## Light Tower (Nov 29, 2020)

Now here are the mascots of Paris 2024.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

cool. Beret's.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Light Tower said:


> Now here are the mascots of Paris 2024.


Very odd. The phrygian cap on Liberty is certainly iconic.

But the message is a bit muddled since the cap was a symbol of being a commoner or former slave; and the painting represents the largely failed revolution of 1830 where the French changed one bad King for another and the suppression of the middle classes, workers, the poor and non-citizens continued.

I guess it's a shot at re-branding? lol.


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## Light Tower (Nov 29, 2020)

It's a different idea for an Olympic and Paralympic mascot.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

pesto said:


> Very odd.


For once, I agree with you, my dear @pesto.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

parcdesprinces said:


> For once, *I agree with you,* my dear @pesto.


You should probably talk to your psychiatrist. Your condition sounds very serious.

It doesn't really mean much to the average fan but among professionals this is something of a head-scratcher since the point of branding is normally to generalize from known positives into the the message that the event is trying to deliver.

And how Delacroix's Marianne is supposed to relate to the new Marianne from 2019 is unclear. The former is detailed, in charge, carrying a firearm and leading others intent on killing; the new Marianne is anonymous, passive and probably carrying a clutch purse.

Of course, the above in no way detracts from my view that Paris is a stunning city and that the Games are likely to be an enormous success.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

pesto said:


> You should probably talk to your psychiatrist.


Good idea indeed ☕ 🧐 (but off-topic, dear)

Next? 🍿 LOL


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## DiogoBaptista (May 6, 2011)

Light Tower said:


> Now here are the mascots of Paris 2024.


First the logo, now the mascot, both terrible! Please don’t give up on the only good thing here, the ceremonies in the center of Paris.


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## the_tower (Jun 8, 2017)

Light Tower said:


> Now here are the mascots of Paris 2024.


Hmmm... very weird. And that reference to Oscar Pistorius who murdered his wife is quite de "mauvais goût" as we say in French. Dunno what to think. I don't wanna know how much taxpayer money has been spent on designing these odd choice mascots xD


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## the_tower (Jun 8, 2017)

DiogoBaptista said:


> First the logo, now the mascot, both terrible! Please don’t give up on the only good thing here, the ceremonies in the center of Paris.


I knew it, it was all about the most expensive fashionista event ever! What Olympis games? Its all about haircut and beret xD


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

the_tower said:


> I knew it, it was all about the most expensive fashionista event ever! What Olympis games? Its all about haircut and beret xD


Yes, confusing images. As for the artificial limb, I had just rolled through that, but you are right there is an unfortunate Pistorius connection.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

*The planned venue for Hockey competitions: *



parcdesprinces said:


> [...]
> ©PdP





































http://www.racingclubdefrance.net/siege-social-eble























😎😎
























*#*_*depuis 1882

---








*_


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

IOC raises prospect of boxing being pulled from Paris Olympics


Qualifying for the Paris 2024 boxing tournament is being organised by the IOC but it said that concerns regarding the IBA mean it will take further decisions that “may have to include the cancellation of boxing for the Olympic Games Paris 2024”.




sportstar.thehindu.com





Boxing having more troubles.


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