# The Keep Your Lane system



## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

The UK is lacking lane discipline. Even though matrix signs try to encourage drivers to keep left unless overtaking or warning drivers not to hog the middle lane, people will still choose any lane they want, causing congestion as it tempers the free flow. 

Germans used to drive fast but disciplined, but these days they will sit on middle of even outside lanes for no apparent reason. A99 around Munich is a fine example. They used to curse the Dutch for have no lane discipline, but the Dutch have gone a lot better now, and intent to use outside lanes for overtaking only. Hogging overtaking lanes is punishable in the Netherlands, and the police to enforce this simple regulation. Austria is getting a little better, still too many middle lane drivers on the A1 though. The Swiss do whatever they want, the Danish and Swedes are not all that disciplined in keeping right unless overtaking. The Belgians seem to get it right, but the Italians are a nightmare. Even the slowest of drivers will keep in the middle lane. Hogging the outside lane in Italy can be a bit of a challenge, as in no time you will have a very angrily flashing and tailgathing Alfa Romeo on your ass. Eastern-European drivers? Don't even go there, they don't have a clue! 

I find the French (yes the French!!!!) the most disciplined drivers in Europe. Chirac has cracked down heavily on dangerous driving, and it worked! Around Paris, Lille and other big cities there are plenty of bad drivers to be found in the wrong lane, but the A6 for example between Dijon and Lyon is a pleasure to drive on. Even when it's busy: Three lanes of motorway, and outside lanes are mainly used for overtaking only!

In Spain the mentality in the Barcelona area: Right-hand lane is for trucks only. Inland it's a bit better but...



The Portuguese are brilliant! Even the fastest of drivers will jump on crawler lanes when there is no traffic!

This is me talking out of my own experience, cruising in my van all over Europe.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Thats true, Portuguese drivers are bad, but lane discipline in Portugal is excellent.

The UK is pretty much the opposite of that


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## Ron2K (Dec 28, 2007)

We've got the "keep left, pass right" rule (don't forget that we drive on the left down here!), but lane discipline is rather poor. Durban drivers are particularly bad at this, in my experience - and let's rather not mention the overly aggressive folk in Johannesburg. Outside of urban areas though, lane discipline is a lot better.

Also, on steep inclines, heavy vehicles will be directed to remain in the left-hand lane, and everything else will use other lanes. On the Town Hill descent on the N3 into Pietermaritzburg, the left-hand lane is reserved for heavy vehicles only, and cars will use the remaining two lanes. There's many other areas that are like that.

Another thing; it's only the right-hand lane that is the overtaking lane. On a 3-lane carriageway, you'll find nearly no-one in the left-lane, unless it's a heavy vehicle or traffic about to take the exit coming up - most drivers will be in the centre lane or overtaking (or sadly, hogging!) in the right lane.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Yes, drivers in the UK are better with lane discipline in rural areas


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

True. For some strange reason, people are more likely to keep left north of Preston on the M6 where there is no traffic.


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## Ron2K (Dec 28, 2007)

Here's the lane restriction signage on Town Hill that I mentioned earlier:










It gets interesting halfway down, when the cars have to cut across the truck lane to get to the Peter Brown exit:


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## Triple C (Aug 23, 2010)

Never seen on TR but around Tunnels;


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

Roads seems to be of excellent quality in SA... 

Is it likely that they will enforce lane discipline anytime soon? You got two mother countries: The UK didn't get it right, the Netherlands did.. ;-) Perhaps the Afrikaaner should start driving on the right-hand sight of the road, and let the English speakers keep to the left ;-)

New form of Apartheid...


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

In you experience, the British has the worst lane discipline in all of Europe?


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

LtBk said:


> In you experience, the British has the worst lane discipline in all of Europe?


No, not the worst. But definitely one of the worst. The worst is probably Poland in my experience. Denmark and Switzerland fall in the same category as Britain. Italy is worse. That is in my own personal experience.


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

One cause that is often ignored in the lane discipline problem is that, in 2x2 highways that are busy, lane discipline would be hard to achieve anyway.

Let me give my example: I ALWAYS drive at the post speed limits (lower in cases of extreme rain, snow and, of course, slow traffic). I will stick to the right lane in 2x2 highways (left in UK/OZ). However, if a road is sufficiently busy with heavy traffic, and almost certainly on hilly terrains wit grades >2%, the external (right) lane will be moving below the allowed speed. Then, on the internal (left) lane, you will have all sort of faster traffic, including overspeeders.

If you yield to overspeeders, however, in busy highways that might mean you are stuck and bound to drive long stretches below the posted speed limit, boxed between trucks, vans and slow moving cars, before you get a gap to overtake more of them.

In such situations, usually defined as service level class D on the FHWA highway design manual, I find myself compelled to drive long sectors on the internal (left) lane, as changing lanes becomes difficult because of heavy, but not slow, traffic. Then, two situations might happen if the right (external) lane is moving considerably (10kmh or more) lower than posted speed limit:

1) The "fast" traffic is moving close to the speed limit: I'm just one more car in the fast lane

2) The "fast" traffic is moving considerably faster than the speed limit: I'll be backing up a lot of cars until there is a sufficient large gap on the left lane that allows me to yield to overspeeders without myself having to back down from the posted speed limit for anything longer than a few seconds. 

I have never been involved in anything but a mild traffic accident without any injuries and only minor damage to the cars. I drive responsibly and will stay on the right lane if I can drive there at the posted limit, but I feel somehow entitled to drive at the post speed limit on the "fast" lane if moving to the right lane would oblige me to drive for long sectors below 5-8 km/h the posted limit. Even if the post limit is unreasonably low - that is a road authority problem, not mine.

This is why I like 3-lane highways so much: they allow "normal" speed traffic to stick it to the central lane, without being bothered by either slow-moving trucks on the right or people overtaking you on the left lane.


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## alserrod (Dec 27, 2007)

As I explained in another thread, in Spain there is a "driving licence by points". 
Some traffic violation can decrease points as well as three years with no violations increase points.
Should you get to zero, you loose your licence and you must request a new one with all tramits (driving without it can get you to jail).

About keeping lane... in the electronic pannels there are over roads and motorways, they use them for punctual information and if no specific information, general things about "do not run" or something like that.


And... there was one month when ALL pannels had some message about "driving on the left except for overtaking = "-2 points" "

Can it be clearer????????


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

Never heard of such a system. 



ChrisZwolle said:


> Does a different speed limit for trucks apply in the USA? Or can they drive the same speed as cars?


In Virginia the speed limit is the same for all types of vehicles.


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## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

Road_UK said:


> No, not the worst. But definitely one of the worst. *The worst is probably Poland in my experience.* Denmark and Switzerland fall in the same category as Britain. Italy is worse. That is in my own personal experience.


I'd blame this on the poor network of motorways in Poland until recently. Changing driving culture takes time.


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## zaphod (Dec 8, 2005)

I agree with Suburbanist on a lot of points.

Keep your lane makes a lot of sense to me if the goal is not so much to maximize speeds but to use highway capacity more efficiently. If there is a lot of congestion on a highway, why should there be so much empty space in the left lane just so a minority of traffic can go faster?


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## lpioe (May 6, 2006)

Road_UK said:


> No, not the worst. But definitely one of the worst. The worst is probably Poland in my experience. Denmark and Switzerland fall in the same category as Britain. Italy is worse. That is in my own personal experience.


Don't think lane discipline is that bad in Switzerland. It's true that on 3-lane motorways many people drive on the middle lane and leave the right lane to trucks. But since there are very few 3-lane motorways in Switzerland it's not a big problem. On 2x2 highways the vast majority follows the "keep right, pass left" rule as far as I can tell.


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## Spikespiegel (Jul 13, 2009)

lpioe said:


> Don't think lane discipline is that bad in Switzerland. It's true that on 3-lane motorways many people drive on the middle lane and leave the right lane to trucks. But since there are very few 3-lane motorways in Switzerland it's not a big problem. On 2x2 highways the vast majority follows the "keep right, pass left" rule as far as I can tell.


I don't feel like lane discipline is that bad in Denmark either. We have some middle-lane hoggers in E47, but I believe those are probably just people not familiar with motorways with more than four lanes, as these are not found on many Danish motorways besides E47/E20. One problem I think we DO have are people who doesn't know the difference between lane merging and lane changing rules.

For example, I was driving along E20 this monday with 110 kph and cruise activated, and three times, the same car pulled out in front of me while I was trying to overtake lorries, so I had to use the brakes. 5 minutes up the road was some lost goods in the overtaking lane, so the lane was closed down. I saw the "lane closed" signs from afar, and stayed in the right lane as most of the other traffic did. mere meters before the left lane closed, the beforementioned car pulled up besides me, put it's turnsignals on and started pulling into my lane as I was next to it. He had to eventually stop changing lanes, and let me pass, while he gave me the finger.
A few km up the road I came to a halt at the Great Belt toll booths. The guy pulled up next to me, and started yelling if I didn't know the "merging rules".
This stunned me a bit, as there were no "merge" signs, but just a "change lane" sign, we were to follow the lane changing rules, which gave me the right of way always.

Even if we were following the lane merge rules, I would have the right of way as I was ahead of him when the merge was supposed to happen.


Much too often I experience stuff like this in Denmark, people who doesn't know the rules for changing and merging lanes


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## alserrod (Dec 27, 2007)

As in several countries, driving licence has "points". Twelve, exactly.

Having a penalty could (or maybe nothing) decrease points... and you have ten or less.
Keeping three years without traffic penalties increase two points your licence, up to 15 points (it started in 2006, in 2009 I got two points and next year I expect to arrive up to 15 if no problem).

Do not respecting traffic signals, speed limits, etc... can be punished with an economic fine and... a decrease of your "points".

If you arrive to zero point, your driving licence get expired absolutely and have to ask a new one with all exams and tramitations (and not cheap!!!).

In a motorway, driving always in the left lane is forbidden. You may drive on the right one and using the left one for overtaken. Of course if congestion or dense traffic a lot of cars will get the left lane, but if no traffic, there are someones which gets the left lane in any case.

This is forbidden. No special traffic on motorway = mandatory to drive on the right. And as I said, it can be punished.

Electronic information on roads an motorways informs about incidences on traffic or something special. If nothing to inform, the gave special message (do not run, risk of fire, etc...)

There was one month when they showed always the message "Drive on the right lane. Driving in the left lane could decrease 2 points".

And very easy to understand... and apply!!!!!


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## piotr71 (Sep 8, 2009)

Road_UK said:


> The UK is lacking lane discipline. Even though matrix signs try to encourage drivers to keep left unless overtaking or warning drivers not to hog the middle lane, people will still choose any lane they want, causing congestion as it tempers the free flow.
> 
> Germans used to drive fast but disciplined, but these days they will sit on middle of even outside lanes for no apparent reason. A99 around Munich is a fine example. They used to curse the Dutch for have no lane discipline, but the Dutch have gone a lot better now, and intent to use outside lanes for overtaking only. Hogging overtaking lanes is punishable in the Netherlands, and the police to enforce this simple regulation. Austria is getting a little better, still too many middle lane drivers on the A1 though. The Swiss do whatever they want, the Danish and Swedes are not all that disciplined in keeping right unless overtaking. *The Belgians* seem to get it right, but the Italians are a nightmare. Even the slowest of drivers will keep in the middle lane. Hogging the outside lane in Italy can be a bit of a challenge, as in no time you will have a very angrily flashing and tailgathing Alfa Romeo on your ass.* Eastern-European drivers? Don't even go there, they don't have a clue! *
> 
> *I find the French (yes the French!!!!)* the most disciplined drivers in Europe.





Road_UK said:


> No, not the worst. But definitely one of the worst. *The worst is probably Poland in my experience*. Denmark and Switzerland fall in the same category as Britain. Italy is worse. That is in my own personal experience.


In most cases I agree with you, particulary about French and Belgians. They are just brilliant and in my opinion best disciplined drivers in Europe (don't know Portugal though)

However, I don't find Polish drivers that bad. Yes, they (we*) drive on left lane for no obvious reason but only until someone intends to overtake us, then we pull over immediately. This is the manouvre British drivers don't know. They just don't care about others and obstruct "faster" lanes as long as they want. They use lane 3 or 4 at 2am on M25 or middle lane at any time on 3 lane motorways. Leaving merging lane they stick to the moiddle lane straight away and keep driving on it for hundreds miles. So , I find them the worst motorway's drivers in Europe.


My opinion comes from a personal experience which is based on driving in about 20 European countries and recently made journey from Portsmouth to Bielsko-Biała. 

*To be clear, I drive as close as possible to Belgian standard.


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

^^
In Britain they simply won't move. If anything, they get angry when you get to close or start flashing your lights - they immediately slam on the brakes! They're arseholes for that. Problem is in Britain and in Poland - if someone hogs the overtaking lane, and two or three cars sit patiently behind it, after a while you get long slow moving queues on the overtaking lane, while the inside lane(s) are empty. On the A4/E40 you sometimes get to your destination quicker by sitting on the inside lane(s) and passing on the illegal side when there are no lorries about. Same goes for the M1, M25 and M6.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

g.spinoza said:


> I'm so happy Autostrade per l'Italia is building third lane on A14, since I will be the only one using it...


The left one? :troll:


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Verso said:


> The left one? :troll:


With my 70 HP, 160 km/h tops little car? I doubt it :banana:


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## ScraperDude (Sep 15, 2002)

US drivers have terrible lane discipline. I've lived in a number of cities and (in My own experience) out of them Columbus, Ohio has the best lane discipline and Kansas City where I live now is full of moronic cadavers hanging out in the left lane. Those idiots get cut off and the finger after I've cut them off. Pull over and die and do the world a favor.


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

I hear New Jersey is the worst...


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## Haljackey (Feb 14, 2008)

Not sure about the whole of Canada, but here in Ontario trucks are not allowed to use the leftmost lane on 6+ lane highways. The speed limit for them remains the same as cars: 100km/h.

Pic of a sign that shows this by me:


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## Lum Lumi (Sep 27, 2011)

Road_UK said:


> Great! Discouraging lane discipline is nothing to be proud of!


How can something be legal and simultaneously "discouraging lane discipline"? If it's legal, then doing it does not imply lack of discipline.


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

Lum Lumi said:


> How can something be legal and simultaneously "discouraging lane discipline"? If it's legal, then doing it does not imply lack of discipline.


This is something I must have written a long long time ago. I can't remember the context.


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## Colin145 (Nov 2, 2014)

Don't know if anyone is still reading this thread but ill post anyway.

One thing i've noticed is that lane disciple in generally better in Scotland than the rest of the UK unless you are driving on the M8 in central Glasgow then you get morons who just sit in lanes 2,3,4 when the inside lanes are completely clear for no reason. And they cause congestion too. the other day at about 10 o'clock there where about 4 or 5 cars ahead of me then some tool sitting in lane 4 of 5 lanes so i pulled out to overtake them and the tool in lane 4, then everyone starts to move the the right and i end up losing 10 mph because this person decided they couldn't be bothered pulling in.

The police say this is a major problem but do nothing about it. since the new lane hogging fines came into force only 5,472 (16th August 2013 to 17 March 14) but in the same time 473,564 people where fined for having no insurance. It's not a question of are there any lane hoggers as many "experts" would have you believe it's a question of are we going to do anything about it. To be fair though police Scotland are using there powers the most and have issued 1,454 fines more than any other place in the UK but tbh i haven't seen lane disciple improve that much in the last year.


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## MrAronymous (Aug 7, 2011)

Pretty sure the discussion has moved to here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1561607&page=11


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

That's not "discussion"; it's yet another round of Europeans Are Right and the Rest of the World Is Stupid. We haven't had many of those around here lately.


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

In all honesty, our keep to the right system is what keeps traffic flowing, and Americans get as much in red-hot rage when stuck behind a slow driver on the left as we do. Difference is that in most European countries the interests of drivers wanting to use left hand lanes for overtaking only are protected by national highway codes. Even though there are too many lane hoggers who still don't care. (I pay road-tax, I can use any bit of the road I like attitude)


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## Kanadzie (Jan 3, 2014)

The same law is common in the USA, there are even signs often posted to remind drivers

they still don't move, but still.


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

Yes, but that's not what the humble starter of the lane discipline thread was talking about....

But I don't have the energy for that now.

:cheers:


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

Clear message in Australia:










Austria:


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/86/Edvard_Munch_-_The_Scream_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg


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## Basincreek (Mar 10, 2008)

In California the Highway Patrol actually discourages lane discipline (for everything but trucks). My step-dad was CHP for 30 years and his explanation is simple: people are terrible at changing lanes and that is where most accidents on freeways occur. Therefore they encourage people to just pick a lane and stick with it. It isn't as efficient a use of the road but it does lead to fewer accidents.


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## Colin145 (Nov 2, 2014)

Road_UK said:


> (I pay road-tax, I can use any bit of the road I like attitude)


These people might have a good argument if road tax existed but it doesn't so it's not even a logical argument for them to have.


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

Everybody in the UK pays road-tax. (well not everybody, but those who don't might find themselves in a spot of trouble sooner or later)


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## Autoputevi kao hobi (Jan 8, 2014)

What is the reason for Americans driving in left lane when they are not overtaking.


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## Colin145 (Nov 2, 2014)

Road_UK said:


> Everybody in the UK pays road-tax. (well not everybody, but those who don't might find themselves in a spot of trouble sooner or later)


Actually you're wrong. No one has paid road tax since 1937. The tax payed by most car owners is vehicle excise duty or VED and it doesn't pay for the roads. Road maintenance comes from general taxation. The reason not every vehicle pays VED is because it's based on your vehicles emissions. So some cars are exempt from paying VED.


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