# GREECE | Railways



## Skaros

Tubeman said:


> A brand new passenger railway built without electrification?


Tubeman thats right!  
Actually the line is designed to be electrified (and there are allready bought new electric DMUs) but *there were huge delays*.(various reasons not to mention now)
*The electrification will be ready* (according to ERGOSE) in *2009*.
The only finished work is the line from the Airport untill Neratziotissa station (Athens)










@Giorgo the trains that are in use currently for this line are STADLER DMUs and for the small electrified part DESIROs


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## Skaros

An interesting part of the procedure of building new railway lines in Greece is the cases of unexpected discoveries of antiquities.
In such cases the relevant Antiquities Councils carry out excavations at ERGOSE’s expense, and the further actions and technical solutions are adopted on a case by case basis, also taking under consideration the importance of the findings.

So happened during the construction of the new line Athens-Corinth there were many discoveries of important antiquities :

In the Isthmus – Ancient Corinth section of the Elefsina – Corinth line, the new railway line intersects with the Justinian Wall. In the 6th century AD Justinian showed a special interest in the safety of Corinth and built the well-known wall along the Isthmus of Corinth, many parts of which are still preserved. ERGOSE has taken all necessary measures in order to protect and display the Justinian Wall.
In particular, a railway bridge was constructed over the wall, with a span of 72 m, and the space around the monument was formed – remodelled in order to better display and protect the wall. 

Also in the region of Corinth and Sikiona large scale excavations are carried out.

*Findings discovered during excavations near Corinth at Corinth railway station :*


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## Tubeman

Skaros said:


> Tubeman thats right!
> Actually the line is designed to be electrified (and there are allready bought new electric DMUs) but *there were huge delays*.(various reasons not to mention now)
> *The electrification will be ready* (according to ERGOSE) in *2009*.
> The only finished work is the line from the Airport untill Neratziotissa station (Athens)


Fair enough. It did seem a bit strange...

2 of our intercity mainline routes are still diesel in the UK, so we can hardly talk (Midland Mainline beyond Bedford and the entire Great Western network to the SW and Wales).


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## Guest

Thanks for this post! I really interested in Greek railway and Greece in general, i think spanish and greeks are very similar. Well done!


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## Skaros

@tubeman thanbks for the info , i did not know that there are still not electrified lines in UK

@Frozen thank you friend!  Well to say the truth we are very far behind in railway infrastructure but something is moving the last years , Spain is a model for Greece!

and some more good news!!

*Diakofto - Kalavryta rack railway*










*The narrowest rack railways in Europe and the only one in Greece. It dates back to 1896.
Its length is 23 Km and the last 50 years it had not seen any investment or upgrade.
Finally the greek state decided to upgrade the track (though without changing its width) and ordered 4 new rack DMUs from the swiss expert industry in rack railways STADLER.
The first new trainset was delivered and untill the end the end of 2008 the line will be again fully operational with the new trains!

From www.Stadler.com



The Greek federal railways OSE have ordered 4 new three-part tourist trains for the railway line from Diakofto to Kalavryta on the Peloponnesus. The existing rolling stock, which is over 40 years old, is to be replaced on the existing, 22.3 km long rack railway in the north of the Peloponnesus. This railway construction has an extremely narrow gauge track of only 750 mm and runs from the scenic coastal town of Diakofto up to the mountainous hiking area of Kalavryta. Diesel traction allows the tourist trains to overcome a difference of 700 m in height over 3 rack sections. The new, lightweight Stadler rack railcars are built with very low axle loads, tailored to this narrow gauge route, which is unique in the world

Click to expand...

This is the currently used very old trains (www.railfaneurope.net)










And these are the new trainsets!











The photo above is the first new rack DMU (taken from www.railfaneurope.net)








*


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## Skaros

*Project:* 
*“Construction of Aegio Tunnel in the Kiato – 
Aegio section of the Athens – Patras High-Speed Railway Line”*

*Budget: € 72,6 million*

Contractual amount: € 53,57 million
Signing date: 24/5/2006
Contractor: “J/V TERNA SA – MOCHLOS SA – AKTOR SA”
Implementation time: *34 months*



> The above project includes the construction of the following:
> • *Aegio double-track tunnel, 3252 m long,* with 3 escape adits totalling 805 m
> • 3 Cover & Cuts, totalling 265,85 m, at the entrance and exit of the main tunnel
> • 3 pilewalls, totalling 368,05 m (West drive)
> • 1 Overpass (ΤΟ3), 32 m long (East drive).
> The underground alignment runs under “Kouloura” area and then, bypassing the city of Egio, reaches the area of “Kouniniotis” factory.


Under construction (March 2007) Aegio double-track railway tunnel










Escape tunnel (March 2007)


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## Kuvvaci

very huge project...

will Patras Athens be line "high speed"?


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## Skaros

Kuvvaci it will not be high-speed by west european standards, but for Greece (which lacks of good railway network) sure it will be.
The website of ERGOSE (www.ergose.gr) (Ergose is responsible for the new projects) informs us that :



> The modernization programme of the Athens (SKA) – Patras railway corridor includes *the construction of a new double-track standard gauge railway line from Acharnes Traffic Center (SKA) to Patras, in replacement of the existing single-track metric gauge line. *
> 
> *Maximum train speed will reach 200 km/hour along most of the new line (Athens – Corinth – Ligia), 150 km/hour in the Ligia – Egio section and 100 – 150 km/hour in the Egio – Patras section.*
> 
> The projects’ progress in the ATHENS (SKA) – KIATO section is as follows:
> 
> The 80 km long railway line in the Athens (SKA) – Corinth section was opened to traffic in September 2005, whereas the remaining works in the areas of all stations are scheduled for completion in 2007.
> 
> *In the 21 km long Corinth – Kiato section, construction works are in progress and the double-track line section is scheduled for completion in June 2007.*
> When the remaining planned investment projects are completed in the KIATO – PATRAS section, *the entire corridor will consist of a standard gauge line, thus ensuring complete interoperability of the Athens – Patras corridor with the Central and Northern Greece network.*


Regarding electrification :










So as you see they use the word "high speed" though it is not so high in some cases. Also there is a confusion since the electrification enables speeds of 250 km/h but the track (?) does not.I dont get this ,perhaps its for security reasons , or someone who knows about reailways can explain. 
It is announced that after the completion of the works the distance *Athens-Patras will be covered in a total time of 2 hours* which is an improvement from the current 3 and a half hours that someone needs today (though i was expecting less time for such much money spent)
Though there will be many tunnels unfortunatelly the terrain of north Peloponnese (especially in Achaia region) is so difficult that the trains will not be able to reach speeds of 200 km/h the last 50 kms.


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## Coccodrillo

Skaros said:


> Though there will be many tunnels


The longest being about 20 km long, isn'it?

A map: http://bueker.net/trainspotting/maps_greece.php


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## Mattboy

Very interesting! There seems to be lots of projects in Greece right now, with new lines and upgrades. If the map at bueker is correct, you are electrifying the whole Athens-Thessaloliki line. Tell us about it, please! :-D


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## hp500hp

Love the color scheme of the buildings 
but how can they use wooden sleepers in this time and age?


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## Geokioy

Dear Mattboy, the map you found on the net is correct!!


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## Skaros

> Love the color scheme of the buildings
> but how can they use wooden sleepers in this time and age?


Geia sou Hp500hp! 
i am also surprised , in most new stations they use pre-stressed concrete sleepers , a possible explanation is that the specific track shown in the picture is the one used from the metric gauge old line (since from the new Corinth station begins the single track metric line which continues to the rest of Peloponnese.)





















> Very interesting! There seems to be lots of projects in Greece right now, with new lines and upgrades. If the map at bueker is correct, you are electrifying the whole Athens-Thessaloliki line. Tell us about it, please! :-D


Mattboy the whole electrification project is an old story which has allready costed millions of euro and still no electric trainsets are used.
We all hope that it is possible in the next 5-6 years to see at least a 80% of the line to be electrified.


> The longest being about 20 km long, isn'it?
> 
> A map: http://bueker.net/trainspotting/maps_greece.php


Coccodrillo the map is accurate but the information about the tunnel is false.
The longest railway tunnel project (*under construction*) is the *Kallidromon mountain twin tunnels* in *central Greece* , (*each tube has length 9.2 Km*)


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## Geokioy

Some photos from the greek fleet of trains that are currently (2007) in use

Suburbun Trains Aroun Athens and Thessaloniki

















































Trains For Larissa, Thessaloniki and general northern Greece:

















Trains in Peloponnese (for Patras,Olympia, Pyrgos, Kalamata, Nafplio)

















All the above trains are air-conditioned, but have diesel engines. Up to now (April 2007) there are only some exceptions, such as the lines Neratziotissa-Athens Airport, Thessaloniki-Skopje and Thessaloniki-Sofia, which do use electric powered trains. However the improvement continuous... 

useful internet sites in greek and english
www.ose.gr
www.ergose.gr
www.proastiakos.gr


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## Geokioy

And some photos from railway stations around Greece. The majority of them are very old, but also very beautiful due to ther architectural style and colors and were built the last half of the 19th century...

Peloponnese Station in Athens. This used to be the start point for trains going to peloponnese. 

















Mucynes 









Argos (before Nafplio)









Tripoli









Pyrgos









Olympia









Now the Peloponnese Station is closed and it will be transformed to a museum. The trains for peloponnese leave from Larissa station as happens also for the trains that travel to northern Greece.

Athens Central Railway Station or Larissa Station (destinations for all of Greece:2007)

















Chalkida









Volos









Thessaloniki Railway Station

















Ksanthi


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## Geokioy

In conclusion I'd like to say that do travel with train in Greece. Travel is very comfortable (especially with InterCity and Express InterCity trains) and trains pass through marvelous landscapes, gorges, mountains, forests and rivers...you will see a differernt aspect of Greece!!! Islands and ships is only one part of Greece very advertised all this years!!! Try the different and discover mainland Greece by train!!!


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## Geokioy

In Greece, apart from the Train of "Ododontos" (rack railway), which connects Diakofto with Kalavryta (Peloponnese area) (for details read the previous posts) there is also an other narrow gague railway (0.6 m).
This railway line connects villages at the foot of Pilion mountain, near the city of Volos (Thessaly Area - Central Creece). Today is operational only for sightseeing. For more info have a look in these sites:
http://www.volos-city.gr/ecportal.asp?id=579&nt=18&lang=2
http://www.i-politismos.gr/train_eng.html


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## Geokioy

Some videos with greek trains....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z3yIJ1KFms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W43TkgSHwLk

this video shows the entrance of a metro train, coming from the Athens Airport, into the underground line 3. During this the train stops in order to switch the source of electric power. Thus means that instead of using the aerial electric cable it starts to use the ground electric line... 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCE5I4oKG4k


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## radi6404

Geokioy said:


> All the above trains are air-conditioned, but have diesel engines. Up to now (April 2007) there are only some exceptions, such as the lines Neratziotissa-Athens Airport, Thessaloniki-Skopje and Thessaloniki-Sofia, which do use electric powered trains. However the improvement continuous...
> 
> useful internet sites in greek and english
> www.ose.gr
> www.ergose.gr
> www.proastiakos.gr


there should be a high speed line sofia thessaloniki, trains should reach thessaloniki in 3 hours, i hope they will buy some high speed trains to do that, i hope they will build new rails in bulgaria soon and buy some high speed trains so that this will be possible.


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## Geokioy

You are right!!!


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## Bel Ludovic

Athens's Larissis station is unbelievably small for a city of its size. It's about the size of Guildford station here in the UK! Are there any plans to expand or renovate it?


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## Almopos

There are plans to expand Larissis station. Below you can find some of the renderings that Konstantinoupolis posted on the Hellenic Architecture forum. 



KONSTANTINOUPOLIS said:


> από meletitiki.gr


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## ms.dinoma

*Greek railways/station "upgrading"*

Well I'm going to speak to someone in PR at OSE tomorrow. Shoulda posted earlier if there's any questions you want answered. 
I for one am disheartened with the new rolling stock, especially what they will do on the Peloponnese line. The new trains I've been on are awful - loud, the overhead racks and other things vibrate when the train's in motion, unlike the older ones, and you can't look out the windows at night - only reflection of the very bright inside of the train. Very romantic (not). Maybe I'm too romantic, but they should keep the old trains and the old line, at least in the Peloponnese, as one of the few remaining old-style train journeys. I even heard they used to have smoke stacks for when they grilled souvlakis on the train! What a great trip that would be!
As for what is working at the moment, not much (and TERRIBLE for tourism):
* You can no longer get off the train in Corinth town or at Isthmus (canal). Those stations are closed, apart from opening for one overnight train. The trip to Corinth is now operated by Proastiakos, and only to the New Corinth station, some miles away.
* There is no line from Corinth down to Argos, Nafplio, and around to Kalamata (and hasn't been one, at least since 2004). 
* The Diakofto-Kalavryta rack-rail is not operational. Maybe next year...
* I also read they were going to make a train line from Igoumenitsa to Kalambaka by 2012. Doesn't seem to be in the plan anymore.
* As for the Athens station, it's 'spose to be redone. But the old Peloponnese station is such a charmer - and they closed it. All in the name of progress... (and of course, lining someone's pocket - I think why OSE got taken to the European court recently).


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## ms.dinoma

Update:
* Not re-doing the main Athens train station for the foreseeable future.
* Proastiakos from Athens/airport to Corinth only stops at New Corinth station; No longer service to Corinth (town) or Isthmos (canal).
* Not doing the line from Corinth-Argos-Nafplio-...-Kalamata for the foreseeable future.
* No longer service between Volos and Paleofarsala.
* No longer service to Loutraki.
* Not making a line between Igoumenitsa and Kalambaka on the mainland until "2030, maybe!"
* New Proastiakos (suburban railway) service between Piraeus and the airport starts on Monday June 4.
* Diakofto-Kalavryta rail MIGHT be operational later this year. OSE or ERGOSE (spoke to both) would not confirm.
* There will be a train from Athens to Moscow this summer, like last summer.


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## Justme

Geokioy said:


> Athens Central Railway Station or Larissa Station (destinations for all of Greece:2007)


Thanks for the fascinating post and info on Greek trains and developments.

Can I ask a question though. Is that above really Athen's central railway station? Or is there a bigger, more important station in Athens. This one looks very small and entirely inappropriate for such a big city like Athens.

Are there any plans to enlarge or modernize this station?


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## Geokioy

Yes...unfortunately this is Athens Central Railway Station...!!! It's a shame I Know...there are plans for its expansion...but the works that are currently under way have a very slow rate of progress....
Have a look in the following site...
http://www.meletitiki.gr/48/article/english/48/76/index.html


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## ms.dinoma

*re: Athens main train station*

I say, as long as it does the job adequately, why change it? Remembering that this is Greece, if they make a bigger station, they'll hire lots more deadwood (staff), of which I think there's more than enough already who don't do ANYTHING. Case in point: there were 5 or 6 people in the press office. Doing what, exactly, when all they wanted was for me not to find them (no telno, door closed, no reply to email, etc, etc). They prefer everyone dial 1110, even if insufficient. Sorry people - am truly a rail enthusiast (my great-grandfather incidentally was the first editor of the Railway Magazine (UK) back at the turn of the last century, so maybe in my blood), but what I've seen and read about OSE really makes me cynical (also from looking up stories within the past year on ekathimerini.com...)
Sorry - needed to vent!


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## Küsel

I just came back from Greece where I wanted to travel around by train - but the whole Peloponnes railway was u/c - even the mountain trains and I was looking really forward to some train rides there  :bash:

Hope they manage to finnish it soon that it will be as great as the metropolitan trains in Athens (Korinth-Athens is fantastic!).


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## Geokioy

I post here some photos from the greek fleet of trains. They were taken by the web site of the friends of the Greek Railways...enjoy!!! (http://www.sfs.gr/gallery_index.php?top=topbg2&categ=9)


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## Geokioy

This is the new site on the net for the Greek Railways...in case anybody wants info...
http://www.ose.gr/ose/content/Home.aspx?d=39&rd=16685622&f=-1&rf=-1&m=-1&rm=-1&l=1


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## Geokioy

...more photos from railway stations and trains around Greece...

Volos Railway Station and a diesel Siemens Desiro ready to depart for Larisa (capital of Thessaly - Central Greece)









Trikala Raulway Station (Thessaly)









Thessaloniki Central Railway Station (Macedonia-Norhern Greece)









...some trains parked...


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## AVassilios

Works in Thriassio have a very fast process! http://www.amnizia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1188&start=60.

For them who don't know what Thriassio will be, it's going to be the main yard of Athens, main cargo yard of Peloponnes. A very big area, a paradise for railfans! 

The best picture page of Greek railways: http://www.gallerypanos.fotopic.net

AVassilios


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## Alexriga

Thanks for informative thread. Looks like Greek railways have good news


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## priamos

Thanks a lot - those photos really made my day! I'm so used to seeing Stadler's DMU Railbus on secondary lines in Switzerland (where I used to live), usually with the mountains of Graubunden or the cows of Emmental in the background. It's totally cool to see this old friend rollling on the plains of Thessaloniki. ;-) 

One question though: all the information on this thread deals with the new line between Athens and Patras. Does anybody know where we stand with the line upgradings between Athens and Thessaloniki? I seem to remember that the Greek railways had all kinds of problems with a couple of tunnels they need to build to get into southern Thessalia (wasn't one of them called Kallidromo?), but for more than a year I haven't heard a peep.


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## panakosXX

AVassilios said:


> The best picture page of Greek railways: http://www.gallerypanos.fotopic.net



Maybe this is off-topic, but i want to correct you. It's http://gallerypanos.fotopic.net ! Not with www


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## Olympios

Views of the Kallidromou tunnel. The biggest ever constructed in Greece (double tunnel 2 X 9 km)


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## imaginas

Train "intercity" type AEG in Central Station of Athens









Local Train type MAN 2000 in Central Station of Athens









Interrior of local train type MAN 2000









Local train MAN 1 (Narrow gauge) in Edesa Station









Intercity Express (ICE) passes from Sfendali Station.Locomotive is type Bombardier Adtranz










A forum for ralifuns-Greek- is the:
http://www.amnizia.com


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## Ali18

Thessaloniki Central Railway Station 3 years ago.








[/URL]Image Hosting[/IMG]


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## DinoBond007

You have same name (ICE) like Germans but German ICE is a high speed train going up to 320km/h!!!! Are there some plans for a high speed rail in Direction Central Europe???


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## imaginas

The new line "Patra-Athens-Thesaloniki-Eidomeni (idomeni) PATHE is desighned for 220km/h.Is double electrical line.ICE in Greace,means a train with only 4 stops totaly (departure and arival stations incl).For example ICE number 50 from Athens to Thesaloniki stops only in Lianokladi,and Larisa,and has finaly stop Thesaloniki.The travel time is 4 hour 20 min.If you want more information about Greek Railway,you can be member in www.amnizia.com a web site special about trains.Is Greek,but you can ask any question in English.


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## imaginas

Kuvvaci said:


> thank you... could you please take the photos of the construction when you have time to go to Larisa Station?


I will try.The problem doesn't is the time.Is the security!


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## Kuvvaci

you can take from the railway bridge  no one can see


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## imaginas

I know the bridge over the station.I will try.Stay tuned!


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## serdar samanlı1

Wikipedia says that train service from Athens to airport has been suspended because of some works on the track. Have those works finished and the train service started?


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## imaginas

If you want go to airport from athens now,you take the train with destination kiaton (peloponisos) and at first station you change train with destination neratziotisa,and after you take the electric train with destination airport!!!You need about 30minutes for this route.


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## serdar samanlı1

Does this electric train call at Athen's Central Station?


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## imaginas

In Athens Central not exist electric line yet.


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## pilotos

imaginas said:


> Only the Desiros EMU was bought.The diesels was rent.
> Και στα Ελληνικά!Μόνο τα Ηλεκτροκίνητα αγοράστηκαν.Τα πετρελαιοκίνητα,ενοικιάστηκαν και μετά έφυγαν.Και η βλακεία είναι ότι πλήρωσαν για ενοίκιο όσο περίπου θα κόστιζαν να τα αγόραζαν!


Το ίδιο λέμε



> Does this electric train call at Athen's Central Station?


The electrification is working from Thessaloniki to Larisa, not any further yet.


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## ovem

Kuvvaci said:


> you can take from the railway bridge  no one can see


i think that the bridge does not exist anymore, because of the construction for the new rr station. i said I THINK  i'm not sure...


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## imaginas

The bridge over the platforms exists.You can see it in following photos.Is behind the train!

http://www.imaginas.gr/gallery/index.php?iID=535


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## Kuvvaci

ovem said:


> i think that the bridge does not exist anymore, because of the construction for the new rr station. i said I THINK  i'm not sure...


without this bridge it is impossible to pass to Peleponisos Station (also OSE's international Bus lines-International Buses are not from KTEL and OSE is a railway company wich also operates buses).
-------------------------------------------------------

Athens Larisa Main Train Station in the future. 




























Athens Larisa Main Train Station present situation (photos are taken by me)


















_everest cafe makes the best toast I've ever eaten_


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## Railfan

Nice photos


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## imaginas

Amigo,¿podemos ver fotografías de Venezuela?.Trenes o Ciudades o chicas guapas


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## Railfan

Si, abriré el tema


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## serdar samanlı1

Is Greece planning to dobule track and electrify the line that goes to Turkey?


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## Kuvvaci

Trains between Salonica and Istanbul are eletric trains and they are cool. TCDD and OSE operate together (when one is coming, other is going)


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## serdar samanlı1

The part between Sirkeci and the Greek border is electric. But the part between Greek border and


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## serdar samanlı1

Kuvvaci said:


> without this bridge it is impossible to pass to Peleponisos Station (also OSE's international Bus lines-International Buses are not from KTEL and OSE is a railway company wich also operates buses).
> -------------------------------------------------------
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> _everest cafe makes the best toast I've ever eaten_


A rail company that also operated buses? Weird.


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## Ali18

imaginas said:


> The bridge over the platforms exists.You can see it in following photos.Is behind the train!
> 
> http://www.imaginas.gr/gallery/index.php?iID=535


Nice pictures. Good work!


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## ovem

Kuvvaci said:


> Trains between Salonica and Istanbul are eletric trains and they are cool. TCDD and OSE operate together (when one is coming, other is going)


huh... yeah. The turkish trains of the line are really cool but the Greek sucks!  the cabins also are smaller in the greek... i used em both twice


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## Kuvvaci

when did you come here ovem?


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## imaginas

New photos.
Korintos station (metric line).Now is closed.The trains used only for cargo.

http://www.imaginas.gr/gallery/index.php?iID=580

http://www.imaginas.gr/gallery/index.php?iID=583

Alco locomotive.Metric gauge.
http://www.imaginas.gr/gallery/index.php?iID=582


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## Kuvvaci

I think it is old Korinthos station. I have been to the new one. Why did they build it so out of the city?


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## imaginas

Kuvvaci said:


> Why did they build it so out of the city?


The line is part of line Patra-Athens-Thesaloniki-Eidomeni and is desighned for speeds over 200kmph.You know is very dangerous to pass a train through the city.In additional,is narrow gauge and not metric.I hope to answer in your question.


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## ovem

Kuvvaci said:


> when did you come here ovem?


summer 2005
& summer 2006


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## imaginas

A train type "MAN 1" in Edesa Station (Macedonia) before departures to Thesaloniki.


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## Kuvvaci

does it still operate?


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## serdar samanlı1

Do mainline passenger and freight trains run on Proastikos line or only Desiros run there?


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## imaginas

In proastiakos run MAN 2000 and Railbus and Desiro EMU in part Neratziotisa to Airport,an Thesaloniki to Larisa.


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## imaginas

Kuvvaci said:


> does it still operate?


Yes.Is good train.


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## Kuvvaci

do you take also interior pix?


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## imaginas

No i don't


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## pilotos

Some interior pictures from flickr:


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## imaginas

This train,its not MAN 1!
Από ΜΑΝ 1 σαν αυτό που έβαλα ζήτησε εσωτερικό


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## Kuvvaci

is it ICE?


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## imaginas

Maybe yes maybe no!These veichles use and at simple trains as "500","503" from Athens to Thesaloniki.ICE is not train,is a service.Same trains but with 4 stations from Athens to Thesaloniki (Departure and arive stations included.They stop at Lianokladi,and Larisa before Thesaloniki)


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## Kuvvaci

thank you for your answer. I apreciate your effort for everything so much kay:

imaginas, I guess you know. What is the last situation of the line after corinthos? It was under costruction before. Is it complated towards Patras?


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## imaginas

The line is completed only to Kiato.After is under construction.


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## pilotos

imaginas said:


> This train,its not MAN 1!
> Από ΜΑΝ 1 σαν αυτό που έβαλα ζήτησε εσωτερικό


I know and so i also put the wagons type at the 1st photo,so that i wont confuse anyone... I cant find any pictures of that MAn,which rather not interesting to show, if you ask me of course.


Random pictures from flickr:

A Greek Ad-tranz with wagons of the Turkish railways:



AD-tranz again,with regular wagons:



AD-tranz on ICE route:



AEG DMU intercity train:



Desiro (DMU):



Desiro (EMU):



EuroSprinter on international route from Belgrade:







And some freight trains:


----------



## Kuvvaci

wonderful post :applause: 

first picture is interesting to me also, why does OSE use TCDD wagons? Did they buy?


----------



## Kuvvaci

^^ woow , very nice... euxaristo para poli gia photos... there is a nice development. 

you took also the picture of Peleponisos Station. It reminds me of alittle bit Istanbul Sirkeci station although, this one is smaller and used for another job right now. I felt touched.


----------



## imaginas

Soon more from another point of new lines.


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## AVassilios

Evharisto poly imaginas! WOW, they work 
your pics are great, more more pls 
There is a nice reportage about the today's mood of OSE in the Greek TV SKAI (saldy only in Greek): http://www.skai.gr/master_avod.php?id=96791&lsc=1


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## imaginas

I will try to take new photos tomorrow from tris gefyres point.


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## Kuvvaci

what will be the down part? Autopark or under ground passage?


----------



## Kuvvaci

AVassilios said:


> Evharisto poly imaginas! WOW, they work
> your pics are great, more more pls
> There is a nice reportage about the today's mood of OSE in the Greek TV SKAI (saldy only in Greek): http://www.skai.gr/master_avod.php?id=96791&lsc=1



could you please give an English summery?


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## imaginas

Kuvvaci will be an underground station for suburban.Will be moved underground from Central Station of Athens,to treis gefures near in stations and after will continues on the ground to Agioi Anargyroi,and after will moved undergroud again to SKA.


----------



## Kuvvaci

oh very nice kay:

there are too much investment on the railways in Greece ecently. Or am I wrong?

I watched the video and I don't understand but sensed as if new investments are coming. Am I wrong?


----------



## imaginas

Kuvvaci said:


> oh very nice kay:
> I watched the video and I don't understand but sensed as if new investments are coming. Am I wrong?


The only investment wich is progress is the shrinking of Greek railways...The minister wants close the OSE...


----------



## serdar samanlı1

If they close OSE who will run the railways?


----------



## imaginas

Nobody.We will have only the buses...I believe will change the goverment soon,and we will avoid this catastrophe


----------



## Kuvvaci

imaginas said:


> The only investment wich is progress is the shrinking of Greek railways...The minister wants close the OSE...


are you sure? it could like suicide! Why do you think like that! If they want to close the OSE, why do they build this station and buy new trains and build Athens-Patra railroad? It could be very sad! Why?


----------



## pilotos

Imaginas i understand you probably have some issues with the government and ose, but none is going to close ose or so, the obvious problem is the huge debt ose has, and they have to shrink the debt somehow, i am sure the railways in Greece will get better when ose functions as indented.

Now many people say that the final purpose of the current government could be to privatize part of ose, not the infrastructure but probably the cars handling etc, but in any case there is no such plans announced.


----------



## imaginas

Kuvvaci said:


> are you sure? it could like suicide! Why do you think like that! If they want to close the OSE, why do they build this station and buy new trains and build Athens-Patra railroad? It could be very sad! Why?


For the constructions about 50% of the budget is financing of European Union,and must to complete...


----------



## imaginas

pilotos said:


> Imaginas i understand you probably have some issues with the government and ose, but none is going to close ose or so, the obvious problem is the huge debt ose has, and they have to shrink the debt somehow, i am sure the railways in Greece will get better when ose functions as indented.
> 
> Now many people say that the final purpose of the current government could be to privatize part of ose, not the infrastructure but probably the cars handling etc, but in any case there is no such plans announced.


Pilotos,μπορείς να διαβάσεις Ελληνικά,και σε παραπέμπω στο φόρου www.amnizia.com .Κάνε μια εγγραφή (δωρεάν είναι) και διάβασε τα θέματα του.Ασχολείται με τον σιδηρόδρομο αποκλειστικά,και θα μάθεις πολλά.


----------



## Almopos

Imaginas, great pictures of the new Athens railway station. I'm glad to see that construction has finally started. 

As for the closing down of OSE, this is highly unlikely. OSE has enormous debt, something has to be done about that. 



> Nobody.We will have only the buses...I believe will change the goverment soon,and we will avoid this catastrophe


Νομίζεις ότι μια νέα κυβέρνηση δεν θα λάβει μετρα για να περιοριστούν τα ελλείμματα του ΟΣΕ; Αλλα έχεις δίκιο, με μια νέα κυβέρνηση του ΠΑΣΟΚ δεν θα αλλάξει τίποτα και μάλλον θα διπλασιαστούν τα ελλείμματα όπως και έγινε τα 20 χρονια που κυβερνούσαν αυτόν τον τόπο.


----------



## ovem

KERATADES!!! what i saw on tis video makes me mad! I am not responsible for this situation... but unfortunately those who votes for the 2 parties => (literally double meaning) are absolutely responsible for this... the government wouldn't do anything of this shit if it was not elected... but that's the poor mind of petit bourgeois! they dont have their own hands... they need a boss... i dont. so i dont vote for those guyz => i am not responsible...
this asshole minister said that the ellipse of labor, drives the organisation to pay for overtimes!!! WHY DONT YOU INCEPT WORKERS??? ARE WE THAT STUPID??? ****!?!?! 
THIS FUCKING COUNTRY STILL EXISTS BY MISTAKE!!! OHHHHHH I'm really ashamed for being greek... sorry guys. please let me go! i dont belong here...


----------



## imaginas

Almopos said:


> Νομίζεις ότι μια νέα κυβέρνηση δεν θα λάβει μετρα για να περιοριστούν τα ελλείμματα του ΟΣΕ; Αλλα έχεις δίκιο, με μια νέα κυβέρνηση του ΠΑΣΟΚ δεν θα αλλάξει τίποτα και μάλλον θα διπλασιαστούν τα ελλείμματα όπως και έγινε τα 20 χρονια που κυβερνούσαν αυτόν τον τόπο.


Εσύ απαντάς με κομματικούς όρους,και δε θα μπω στη διαδικασία αντιπαράθεσης κομματικών "επιχειρημάτων",αλλά θα μιλήσω με οικονομικούς όρους που είναι και η δουλειά μου.

Ο ΟΣΕ,λέει το ΥΜΕ,έχει περίπου 500 δις ευρώ έλλειμμα.Ωραία,έχει τόσο έλλειμμα.Πρέπει να μας πει όμως από που προέρχεται το έλλειμμα.Μια μελέτη στις οικονομικές καταστάσεις που έχει δημοσιοποιήσει,εμφανίζει την πηγή του παθητικού.Τον τραπεζικό δανεισμό.Γιατί όμως προβαίνει σε τραπεζικό δανεισμό ο ΟΣΕ;Μα για να χρηματοδοτήσει τα έργα που κάνει,και φαίνονται στο ενεργητικό του.Το 70% του παθητικού του είναι για τα έργα.Διότι τα έργα σιδηροδρόμου,τα χρηματοδοτεί ο ΟΣΕ,και παίρνει και μια χρηματοδότηση για κάποια από την Ε.Ε.Όχι όμως όλα,διότι δεν είναι όλα έργα μεγάλα,αλλά είναι και η συντήρηση του δικτύου του και η συντήρηση των οχημάτων του.Το 30% που απομένει από τα 500 περίπου δις ευρώ,μπορεί να αναλυθεί περαιτέρω.Ο ΟΣΕ,σε αντίθεση με την Ο.Α,δεν επιδοτείται για κάποια δρομολόγια σε περιφεριακές γραμμές που δεν είναι κερδοφόρα,αλλά βοηθάει τις τοπικές κοινωνίες.Άρα,τις ζημίες τις καρπώνεται αυτός.Κατά συνέπεια,το χρέος που μας λέει ο ΥΜΕ,δεν είναι όσο λέει,αλλά μικρότερο.Και πώς μειώνεις το χρέος;Κόβοντας δημοφιλή δρομολόγια;Όχι βέβαια,περιορίζοντας το κόστος παροχής υπηρεσιών.Μα,θα πει κάποιος,έχουν πολύ προσωπικό που δε χρειάζεται.Θα απαντήσω εγώ,είσαι σίγουρος;Αν έχουν πολύ προσωπικό,γιατί όταν πάω να αγοράσω εισιτήριο στον Σταθμό Λαρίσης στην Αθήνα,έχει έναν ταμεία και αναμονή 60 άτομα;Γιατί πληρώνει εταιρείες σεκιούριτη (τουλάχιστον δύο διαφορετικές) και δεν κάνει κάποιους υπαλλήλους που περισσεύουν,ασφάλεια;Γιατί ενώ η γραμμή Κόρινθος-Άργος-Τρίπολη,είναι έτοιμη δεν τη δίνει στην κυκλοφορία για να αποσβέσει την επένδυση για την ανακαίνιση της;Γιατί στο σχέδιο της εξυγίανσης που λέει ο ΥΜΕ,έχει πρόσληψη μηχανοδηγών;Μα διότι για να βγει η δουλειά,οι μηχανοδηγοί κάνουν υπερωρίες,και κοστίζουν περισσότερα...Αντί να λύσει αυτά τα προβλήματα,κόβει δημοφιλή δρομολόγια,όπως το 602/603 το οποίο κόπηκε επειδή δε φτάνουν οι μηχανές Ad tranz,διότι,οι τροχοί που έπρεπε να αντικατασταθούν,δεν υπάρχουν.Δεν έκαναν παραγγελία...Οι πληροφορίες λένε για κόψιμο αμαξοστιχιών,που έχουν πληρότητα 120% όπως οι 883 αν δεν κάνω λάθος το νούμερο,που πάνε Αθήνα-Τρίκαλα.Ή τα δρομολόγια 500-501-502-503 που είναι πάντα και με όρθιους.Και θα αφήσει μόνο κάποια IC,ICE.Εδώ,ακόμα και την 604 τη νυχτερινή για Θεσσαλονίκη,σκέφτονται να κλείσουν.Κάνε μια εγγραφή στο amnizia.com και θα πάρεις απαντήσεις σε όλες σου τις απορίες.Εγώ,πρώτα είμαι φίλος του σιδηροδρόμου και μετά ψηφοφόρος κάποιου κόμματος.Όνειρο μου είναι να ξαναπάω με τραίνο στην Καλαμάτα,αλλά δεν το βλέπω.Βλέπεις,τα συμφέροντα των ΚΤΕΛ είναι τεράστια.


----------



## Kuvvaci

ovem said:


> KERATADES!!! what i saw on tis video makes me mad! I am not responsible for this situation... but unfortunately those who votes for the 2 parties => (literally double meaning) are absolutely responsible for this... the government wouldn't do anything of this shit if it was not elected... but that's the poor mind of petit bourgeois! they dont have their own hands... they need a boss... i dont. so i dont vote for those guyz => i am not responsible...
> this asshole minister said that the ellipse of labor, drives the organisation to pay for overtimes!!! WHY DONT YOU INCEPT WORKERS??? ARE WE THAT STUPID??? ****!?!?!
> THIS FUCKING COUNTRY STILL EXISTS BY MISTAKE!!! OHHHHHH I'm really ashamed for being greek... sorry guys. please let me go! i dont belong here...


May I ask what video tells?

I wonder also how OSE created this dept. What did they do and had the dept?


----------



## LtBk

ovem said:


> KERATADES!!! what i saw on tis video makes me mad! I am not responsible for this situation... but unfortunately those who votes for the 2 parties => (literally double meaning) are absolutely responsible for this... the government wouldn't do anything of this shit if it was not elected... but that's the poor mind of petit bourgeois! they dont have their own hands... they need a boss... i dont. so i dont vote for those guyz => i am not responsible...
> this asshole minister said that the ellipse of labor, drives the organisation to pay for overtimes!!! WHY DONT YOU INCEPT WORKERS??? ARE WE THAT STUPID??? ****!?!?!
> THIS FUCKING COUNTRY STILL EXISTS BY MISTAKE!!! OHHHHHH I'm really ashamed for being greek... sorry guys. please let me go! i dont belong here...


Calm down, you country is not the only one who has this kind of problem.


----------



## Almopos

imaginas said:


> Εσύ απαντάς με κομματικούς όρους,και δε θα μπω στη διαδικασία αντιπαράθεσης κομματικών "επιχειρημάτων",αλλά θα μιλήσω με οικονομικούς όρους που είναι και η δουλειά μου.
> 
> Ο ΟΣΕ,λέει το ΥΜΕ,έχει περίπου 500 δις ευρώ έλλειμμα.Ωραία,έχει τόσο έλλειμμα.Πρέπει να μας πει όμως από που προέρχεται το έλλειμμα.Μια μελέτη στις οικονομικές καταστάσεις που έχει δημοσιοποιήσει,εμφανίζει την πηγή του παθητικού.Τον τραπεζικό δανεισμό.Γιατί όμως προβαίνει σε τραπεζικό δανεισμό ο ΟΣΕ;Μα για να χρηματοδοτήσει τα έργα που κάνει,και φαίνονται στο ενεργητικό του.Το 70% του παθητικού του είναι για τα έργα.Διότι τα έργα σιδηροδρόμου,τα χρηματοδοτεί ο ΟΣΕ,και παίρνει και μια χρηματοδότηση για κάποια από την Ε.Ε.Όχι όμως όλα,διότι δεν είναι όλα έργα μεγάλα,αλλά είναι και η συντήρηση του δικτύου του και η συντήρηση των οχημάτων του.Το 30% που απομένει από τα 500 περίπου δις ευρώ,μπορεί να αναλυθεί περαιτέρω.Ο ΟΣΕ,σε αντίθεση με την Ο.Α,δεν επιδοτείται για κάποια δρομολόγια σε περιφεριακές γραμμές που δεν είναι κερδοφόρα,αλλά βοηθάει τις τοπικές κοινωνίες.Άρα,τις ζημίες τις καρπώνεται αυτός.Κατά συνέπεια,το χρέος που μας λέει ο ΥΜΕ,δεν είναι όσο λέει,αλλά μικρότερο.Και πώς μειώνεις το χρέος;Κόβοντας δημοφιλή δρομολόγια;Όχι βέβαια,περιορίζοντας το κόστος παροχής υπηρεσιών.Μα,θα πει κάποιος,έχουν πολύ προσωπικό που δε χρειάζεται.Θα απαντήσω εγώ,είσαι σίγουρος;Αν έχουν πολύ προσωπικό,γιατί όταν πάω να αγοράσω εισιτήριο στον Σταθμό Λαρίσης στην Αθήνα,έχει έναν ταμεία και αναμονή 60 άτομα;Γιατί πληρώνει εταιρείες σεκιούριτη (τουλάχιστον δύο διαφορετικές) και δεν κάνει κάποιους υπαλλήλους που περισσεύουν,ασφάλεια;Γιατί ενώ η γραμμή Κόρινθος-Άργος-Τρίπολη,είναι έτοιμη δεν τη δίνει στην κυκλοφορία για να αποσβέσει την επένδυση για την ανακαίνιση της;Γιατί στο σχέδιο της εξυγίανσης που λέει ο ΥΜΕ,έχει πρόσληψη μηχανοδηγών;Μα διότι για να βγει η δουλειά,οι μηχανοδηγοί κάνουν υπερωρίες,και κοστίζουν περισσότερα...Αντί να λύσει αυτά τα προβλήματα,κόβει δημοφιλή δρομολόγια,όπως το 602/603 το οποίο κόπηκε επειδή δε φτάνουν οι μηχανές Ad tranz,διότι,οι τροχοί που έπρεπε να αντικατασταθούν,δεν υπάρχουν.Δεν έκαναν παραγγελία...Οι πληροφορίες λένε για κόψιμο αμαξοστιχιών,που έχουν πληρότητα 120% όπως οι 883 αν δεν κάνω λάθος το νούμερο,που πάνε Αθήνα-Τρίκαλα.Ή τα δρομολόγια 500-501-502-503 που είναι πάντα και με όρθιους.Και θα αφήσει μόνο κάποια IC,ICE.Εδώ,ακόμα και την 604 τη νυχτερινή για Θεσσαλονίκη,σκέφτονται να κλείσουν.Κάνε μια εγγραφή στο amnizia.com και θα πάρεις απαντήσεις σε όλες σου τις απορίες.Εγώ,πρώτα είμαι φίλος του σιδηροδρόμου και μετά ψηφοφόρος κάποιου κόμματος.Όνειρο μου είναι να ξαναπάω με τραίνο στην Καλαμάτα,αλλά δεν το βλέπω.Βλέπεις,τα συμφέροντα των ΚΤΕΛ είναι τεράστια.



Imaginas, thank you for replying to my post. It is always nice do discuss with someone that has indepth knowledge about a particular subject. However, since this is an English thread I would like to propose continuing our discussion in the Hellenic Agora transportation thread.


----------



## imaginas

New photos from constuctions in Athens and the suburbans.
From a bridge in Agious Anargyrous 5km far away from Athens central station.The corridors of suburban railway and a new station.


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## ovem

LtBk said:


> Calm down, you country is not the only one who has this kind of problem.


ohhh unfortunately i think it is...

imaginas great photos..  the new suburban route will look quite modern i think...
i hope we will see some plans for underground parts from the south part to piraeus too.


----------



## AVassilios

I have some questions about the new Proastiakos line Pireas-SKA:
-Will it be fully underground, or only the sections from Larissis to SKA?
-Why they build in Larissis station a ground- and an ounderground station, waste of money?!
-Will they close the overground section Larissis-SKA?
-Any finishing announcment (we'd have to add at least +3 years )
-I hope with electric trains?

Thanks


----------



## imaginas

AVassilios said:


> I have some questions about the new Proastiakos line Pireas-SKA:
> -Will it be fully underground, or only the sections from Larissis to SKA?
> -Why they build in Larissis station a ground- and an ounderground station, waste of money?!
> -Will they close the overground section Larissis-SKA?
> -Any finishing announcment (we'd have to add at least +3 years )
> -I hope with electric trains?
> 
> Thanks


-It will be underground from Athens to ska.
-Underground will be only the prastiakos station.The curent station will continues the services.
-Yes.
-I don't know.
-Yes electric trains.


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## AVassilios

Thanks! But that's strange why don't they build proastiakos and IC's at the same level? there is enough space! Do you know when about they started with the tunnels? 
Sry i'm not up to date!


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## imaginas

AVassilios said:


> Thanks! But that's strange why don't they build proastiakos and IC's at the same level? there is enough space! Do you know when about they started with the tunnels?
> Sry i'm not up to date!


The problem is the residents not the space.They want not proastiakos lines over the ground...Say,"noise" "danger"...The cars and motorbikes have not noise :rant:

It's not exactly underground as metro.Will be semi underground,if you know what i mean.As Hlektrikos Peireus-Kifisia...


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## Kuvvaci

do you consider Hlektrikos Peireus-Kifisia as metro or suburban train?


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## imaginas

Hlektrikos is a metro line but needs modernization.


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## Kuvvaci

how old is it? How old are the trains and line? I think line is modernizied for Olympics with stations ect!


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## imaginas

Is since 1869!Yes before olympic games the stations modernized,but needs more.The maximum speed is very low-i don't know the number-and the trains are too old.


You can see the history of isap in the official site www.isap.gr


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## Kuvvaci

I didn't mean the first openning actually. I meant trains and other mechanics, rails ect! Airport trains of ROTEM are wonderful, large, modern and fast. This one is narrow, slow and airless, but from outside looks modern.


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## imaginas

Check here: http://www.isap.gr/eng/page.asp?id=43


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

This thread unfortunately turned ugly (lots of hate and misinformation).


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## AVassilios

Kuvvaci said:


> I didn't mean the first openning actually. I meant trains and other mechanics, rails ect! Airport trains of ROTEM are wonderful, large, modern and fast. This one is narrow, slow and airless, but from outside looks modern.


-They made all stations new in 2004 (they look brilliant!)
-Most of the trains built in 2003 (by Bombardier), the others by MAN (1980), so accepable ones!
-Trains are slowly and fast...it does matter where (so acctually it's ok the speed!) e.g. Omonia-Monastiraki is quite slow (maybe of the old tunnel?), but Kalithea- Moschato is a fast one!

I like the "ilektrikos" very much, it's enough fast to call it Metro and it's a wonderful connection from the north to the very south of Athens/Pireas!


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## ovem

^^ yes.. i dont think that ilektrikos need such a mdernisation.. sure, the tunnels and the railroad needs some but the trains and the stations are wonderful. btw its metro unexceptionably. the service frequency is better than the attiko metro i think.


----------



## Skaros

*Corinth railway station (October 2008)*


a lonely railbus DMU




railbus and MAN DMUs together...


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## Kuvvaci

nice pictures...

Skaros, what is going on the Corinthos-Patras line construction?


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## serdar samanlı1

Why there is no electrification?


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## AVassilios

serdar samanlı;26882484 said:


> Why there is no electrification?


Because they had a delay by building the line, and because around athens quite nothing (only nerantiotissa-airport) had electrification, they decided to open the line without, but now there are building it, to be finished in about 1/2 year or more :lol:


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## imaginas

Kuvvaci said:


> no any update?


Stay tuned!
We wait snow Sunday-Monday and i will go for snow photos with train!!!

You can to open an acount-free-at www.amnizia.com and you will see many photos from Greek Railways.In addition you can ask questions in English,and you will take answers about the greek railway!


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## serdar samanlı1

imaginas said:


> Hlektrikos is a metro line but needs modernization.


This line was opened in 1869 as a suburban railway but now classified as Athens Metro though it is run by ISAP not Attiki Metro


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## ovem

yes but its metro... the frequency is even better than attiko metro lines


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## Kuvvaci

you can say, more usefull...


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## imaginas

serdar samanlı;28287022 said:


> This line was opened in 1869 as a suburban railway but now classified as Athens Metro though it is run by ISAP not Attiki Metro


The 1869 the Athens was a small town.The line was small.Now the line has start Pireus port and finished at Kifisia.After 3-4 years the finish will be at Agios Stefanos.Now,Kifisia is an urban of Athens.In 1869 was a village.I hope to help you.Sorry for my english


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## christos-greece

> Hlektrikos is a metro line but needs modernization


Hlektrikos or line 1 of Athens metro system its restored before the Olympic games of Athens 2004


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## imaginas

christos-greece said:


> Hlektrikos or line 1 of Athens metro system its restored before the Olympic games of Athens 2004


Μόνο οι σταθμοί πέρασαν ένα lifting.Οι γραμμές,και η ρευματοδοσία και η σηματοδότηση,δεν άλλαξαν.Αυτό το καθιστά ποιο αργό από το μετρό.


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## serdar samanlı1

christos-greece said:


> Hlektrikos or line 1 of Athens metro system its restored before the Olympic games of Athens 2004


It seems that Athens has one of the oldest subways in the world.


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## Kuvvaci

Hlektrikos was just a suburban rail before. Later upgrated to the metro level. Like how Marmaray will be, or Ankara suburban will be, or Izmir's Airport-Aliağa line will be... Nothing different.


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## serdar samanlı1

Kuvvaci said:


> Hlektrikos was just a suburban rail before. Later upgrated to the metro level. Like how Marmaray will be, or Ankara suburban will be, or Izmir's Airport-Aliağa line will be... Nothing different.


Or like the Stadtbahn in Vienna which is now metro line U6


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## imaginas

New photos from Greek train.
Here an AEG (IC53 Athens-Thesaloniki).This train is very clean with fresh color without grafity.I hope to see it again,clean but i don't think so...
The train is in Central Station of Athens

http://www.imaginas.gr/gallery/index.php?iID=648
http://www.imaginas.gr/gallery/index.php?iID=650&page=1
http://www.imaginas.gr/gallery/index.php?iID=649&page=1


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## ovem

imaginas your photos are great  i guess you are a rail freak. am i wrong?


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## Kuvvaci

he must take more photos... I am curious about the progress of Larissa Station construction.


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## ovem

i'm really busy these days. otherwise i could take some pics of larissa station


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## Almopos

*Construction pictures of the Ag.Anargyroi station and surrounding area on the Athens suburban railway line*

Map of current and part of the future stations of the suburban railway line. 










Pictures originally posted by stadia.gr member mike. 

Station (located on the Piraeus - SKA line)










Tracks










Railway tunnel


----------



## BoSol

*Crete Railways*

From the newspaper Ta Nea I see this Photo from Crete Island where they planed new railways and ferry boat to Napolis !


----------



## hoosier

Good job Greece.:banana:

Are there any plans to build HSR from Athens to Thessaloniki and Istanbul?


----------



## Hubert Pollak

BoSol said:


> From the newspaper Ta Nea I see this Photo from Crete Island where they planed new railways and ferry boat to Napolis !


Could you translate this news?


----------



## ovem

panorama showing construction progress in Larisis Station i shot today:
*-------> scroll*









there are some underground platfroms also under these.


----------



## Kuvvaci

wonderful picture... It seems there is a huge progress at the construction although it is slow a little bit! 

But where is the railway bridge?


----------



## RelaxInPireaus

will this line from tripoli to Kalamata remain 1000mm ? and be operated as a separate system?


----------



## homo faber

Yes, the gauge remains 1000mm. It is impossible to change the gauge on the same alignment and structures. Such an effort is another huge project not justified in the present circumstance. Let's start the new line from Kalambaka to Ioannina and Igoumenitsa (so-called Rail-Egnatia) instead.

The line will operate as a separate network with main workshop in Kalamata, something like the famous Rhaetische Bahn in Switzerland (also 1000mm). Passengers to/from Athens will have to change at Korinthos New Railway Station.


----------



## AVassilios

**** faber said:


> Let's start the new line from Kalambaka to Ioannina and Igoumenitsa (so-called Rail-Egnatia) instead.
> 
> The line will operate as a separate network with main workshop in Kalamata, something like the famous Rhaetische Bahn in Switzerland (also 1000mm). Passengers to/from Athens will have to change at Korinthos New Railway Station.


Huh? I'm a bit confused! 
1000mm gauge makes maybe sense (i'm not an expert!), but i hope it's gonna be an avarage speed of at least 100km/h, if not the competition with the car/KTEL isn't really "fair". Because the Räthische Bahn is quite a NICE, but slow ride for its distance.

Secondly maybe it wasn't a good idea to change the Paleofarsalos - Kalampaka line to 1345mm, because of the today's update of the Egnatia-Rail. 

Passengers to/from Athens will have to change at Korinthos station???
Heh? There is no connection...or will there be a connection over the Rio-Anthirio bridge?

Thanks!
AVassilios


----------



## Kuvvaci

wonderfu pictures skaros... yes, there is an important progress


----------



## Almopos

Some pictures of the new trains on the Diakofto - Kalavrita cog railway. 

Source: http://www.odontotos.blogspot.com/



















For more pictures and short video clips visit the website. 

This railway line passes through the Vouraikos gorge in the Peleponesse region. More info can be found here: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diakofto_Kalavrita_Railway


----------



## daniele1089

Hi guys!! I was wondering if you can upload some photos of Greek's railway stations, such as the ones of Athens or Thessaloniki, I'm very curious to see them!
Efkaristo!! (I hope it's right...)


----------



## [email protected]

http://epivatis.gr/e/index.php?msg=1 I attended the attached website sponsored happening in Loutraki today where we circulated around the city posting notices for the extension of the Proastiako to Loutraki. So far it has been agreed to only bring the tracks to the 'gefyraki' about 500m from the old station. The city planners will transform those 500m of tracks to a bicycle lane.


----------



## [email protected]

*Larissa Train Station*

This shows the new tracks place under the bridge structure at Larissa station.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3745322047/


----------



## [email protected]

*Anthoupoli Metro Station*

Anthoupoli Metro station is nearing completion with the asphalting of the road above the underground station. 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3748801538/


----------



## [email protected]

*Anthoupoli Metro Station*

I try now adding the photo directly.


----------



## [email protected]

*Athens single track bridge construction, Perama to Aspropyrgos*

This is a progress shot from last weekend on the main road out of Athens Odos Athinon.


----------



## RelaxInPireaus

[email protected] said:


> This is a progress shot from last weekend on the main road out of Athens Odos Athinon.


it is clear the project is gonna be about 1 year late


----------



## poshbakerloo

Greek trains look like trams...


----------



## imaginas

poshbakerloo said:


> Greek trains look like trams...


Why?


----------



## imaginas

Big changes in Greek Railways.Goverment stops many timetables.In additional,the railway line Korinthos-Argos-Tripoly is ready and new,but "TRENOSE" says "NO" in operation.

More information
http://www.epivatis.gr

Sorry for my English!


----------



## ovem

^^ really bad news hno: they are pathetic...


----------



## Jay

This might seem like a stupid question but do you guys have any actual trains in greece? and not just railbus/trams... not that they are bad looking trams but still, I don't think I've ever seen a greek train


----------



## TedStriker

Jay said:


> This might seem like a stupid question but do you guys have any actual trains in greece? and not just railbus/trams... not that they are bad looking trams but still, I don't think I've ever seen a greek train



Are you being serious?


----------



## Jay

TedStriker said:


> Are you being serious?



No not really, more sarcastic... obviously everywhere has trains. It just seems that the majority of railways and trains in greece are dominated by "long distance trams" if you will.


----------



## TedStriker

Jay said:


> No not really, more sarcastic... obviously everywhere has trains. It just seems that the majority of railways and trains in greece are dominated by "long distance trams" if you will.


Sorry, I had a brain failure. It's just that I've read lots of mad things on various threads tonight.

Greek freight trains are hauled by proper locomotives, but I guess you're focus is on the passenger side.


----------



## Gadiri

inhalealook said:


> @ Gadiri: Yes, an OSE class 4501 *Stadler/Bombardier/Hellenic Ship Yards metric *(1000mm) GTW 2/6 (articulated railcar) 2‘ Bo 2‘ type Diesel Trainset on the Peloponnese narrow gauge (1000mm) network, started operation circa 2003.
> 
> More info: http://www.stadlerrail.com/en/references/ose-griechenland/


I like Stadler products ! :cheers:





http://www.stadlerrail.com/media/uploads/factsheets/GTW_OSE_e.pdf


----------



## inhalealook

They 're OK I guess, but there have been some over-heating problems during summer months at top speeds, as StadlerRail obviously had not anticipated greek temperatures and the need for air-conditioning(!!). Now the standard gauge versions are used only in the Piraeus-Ano Liosia section of the Athens Suburban Railway service, as after the comlpetion of the electrification, Desiro EMUs took over in the Airport-Kiato line. 
http://www.mobility.siemens.com/mob...s.cfm?z=1&do=app.detail&referenceID=648&lID=1


----------



## RelaxInPireaus

yes very sad news, but as they said it is the only way to make the railway profitable. although even air traveling will already compete railway, as plane journey from Athens to THessaloniki can be done wiht less than 100 euros. 
I love trains, and can't believe for example the stadler on that photo we will never see again. + all the DMUs are becoming useless, including AEG. They will remain on Alexandroupoli direction at least I think.

So very soon all stadlers will go on sale from Greece maybe?


----------



## RelaxInPireaus

in july 2009 i predicted the situation we have today. on this page you can read my comparision of Greece and Argentina

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=455457&page=15


----------



## Baron Hirsch

@inhalealook: I was not trying to diminish the progress that has been made, I just could not believe that you guys were continuing to report on this without mentioning that half of the country is literally being derailed next week and that Greece will now be the only country in continental Europe besides Albania that runs no international passenger services. 

Closed down lines hardly ever come back ( I lived in Berlin/Eastern Germany in the 1990s and while the inner city lines interrupted by the Cold War were mostly rebuilt, much of Eastern Germany saw lines closed down). If we want to see them run, we have to fight for them now, not after some consolidation and privatization of OSE in the far future. 

A German forum of rail fanatics (drehscheibe-online.de) is heatily debating the reasons and possible exit strategies for OSE's plight. Most agree that OSE was squeezed between the bus oligopoly (KTEL) that successfully prevented competitive services and the self-service, beaurocratic make-up of OSE itself. For the international services, the best solution would be to turn over their operations to the neighboring companies (TCDD, BDZ, MZ) or better yet operate them in cooperation. If such a thing is possible in this part of the world, that is. The Philia Express was always full, some days you could not get tickets on it.


----------



## MarcVD

Baron Hirsch said:


> For the international services, the best solution would be to turn over their operations to the neighboring companies (TCDD, BDZ, MZ) or better yet operate them in cooperation. If such a thing is possible in this part of the world, that is. The Philia Express was always full, some days you could not get tickets on it.


Greece being part of the European Union, their railways are supposed to
accept trains running in "open access" mode on their network. What I
do not know is whether they also have to accept trains from countries
that are not part of the EU, like Turkey or Serbia. If not, only the international
train from Sofia will be able to operate that way. And in any case, this might
take ages before it can happen, because it will first require to qualify
locomotives from the neighbour countries to operate on the OSE network.
As far as I know, for the time being, interoperability does not really exist
yet in this part of the world.

30 years ago, I did a train trip from Brussels to Athens and back. I still have
pictures of that, on diapositives. I will try to have them digitized, and publish
them on the net, as a remembrance of a time definitely gone by. :-(


----------



## RelaxInPireaus

Baron Hirsch said:


> @inhalealook: I was not trying to diminish the progress that has been made, I just could not believe that you guys were continuing to report on this without mentioning that half of the country is literally being derailed next week and that Greece will now be the only country in continental Europe besides Albania that runs no international passenger services.
> 
> Closed down lines hardly ever come back ( I lived in Berlin/Eastern Germany in the 1990s and while the inner city lines interrupted by the Cold War were mostly rebuilt, much of Eastern Germany saw lines closed down). If we want to see them run, we have to fight for them now, not after some consolidation and privatization of OSE in the far future.
> 
> A German forum of rail fanatics (drehscheibe-online.de) is heatily debating the reasons and possible exit strategies for OSE's plight. Most agree that OSE was squeezed between the bus oligopoly (KTEL) that successfully prevented competitive services and the self-service, beaurocratic make-up of OSE itself. For the international services, the best solution would be to turn over their operations to the neighboring companies (TCDD, BDZ, MZ) or better yet operate them in cooperation. If such a thing is possible in this part of the world, that is. The Philia Express was always full, some days you could not get tickets on it.


I understand your support, but when we face it.. I dont know it makes me depressed .ktel becomes monopoly as a matter of fact and not cheap one. but what arguments to give in support of the railway? 1 billion euros lost this year? people are hungry, really it is not a joke. things are getting only worse as i see and feel.


----------



## inhalealook

> @inhalealook: I was not trying to diminish the progress that has been made, *I just could not believe that you guys were continuing to report on this *without mentioning that half of the country is literally being derailed next week and that Greece will now be the only country in continental Europe besides Albania that runs no international passenger services.


Of course we are aware of the situation and we are trying to change it, but insisting on the negative aspects will offer nothing. Our country has taken enough beating as it is, it needs no more of this type of "attention" - and comparing Greece to other Balcan countries in such a fashion is untimely, to say the least. On the other hand, any suggestions would be welcome. The proposal for a co-operation with the neighbouring countries to keep the international services running was most interesting, for example. Moreover, any experience with "alternative" regional/local railway operators and other ways of funding in your country would also be invaluable to us.

Until then, we should continue to concentrate on the positive aspects and unique features of the Greek Railways, the services that will remain active and espescially highlight any infrastructure projects progress and improvement/upgrading.

Let's see what is still out there:

An italian railfan video illustrating the unique characteristics (positive and negative) of the Peloponnese narrow gauge network on the Olimpia-Katakolo line of tourist interest, that will remain active. Also some views of the Neoclassical-style Olympia railway station.




Some cabin views of the countryside on the same route:




Rolling stock is one of the metric (1000 mm) Stadler GTW 2/6 Diesel Railbuses Gadiri seems to like.

Train spotting on the main Athens-Thessaloniki corridor, at Tempi Valley.





The Thessaloniki-Alexandroupoli line serving the regions of East Macedonia and Thrace will remain active: An AEG IC train entering to Lefkothea:





Volos-Larisa-Volos local service will also continue to be operational: MAN DMU on train to Larisa departing the city of Volos:





MLWs with freight train for Eidomeni passes Papadia bridge. At least the freight traffic along the Thessaloniki-Eidomeni section should continue.





The Athens-Halikda service is a fairly succesfull one. AEG trainsets on trains 1554/1557/1559 from/to Halikda, with the Halikda motorway cable-stayed bridge and a cement factory in the backround. Electrification infrastructure in place, awaiting activation.




 (This video's intro is very interesting as well)





Lots of train traffic at Oinoi Station, where the Halikda line branches of the main Athens-Thessaloniki corridor. Passenger and freight, local (to/from Halikda) and long distance (to/from Volos and Thessaloniki) trains.





Many things to see, many things alive, worth saving, supporting and using in the Greek Railways...


----------



## Gadiri

inhalealook said:


> An italian railfan video illustrating the unique characteristics (positive and negative) of the Peloponnese narrow gauge network on the Olimpia-Katakolo line of tourist interest, that will remain active. Also some views of the Neoclassical-style Olympia railway station.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g3OCp7upBY
> Some cabin views of the countryside on the same route:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS9aROYlHKU
> Rolling stock is one of the metric (1000 mm) Stadler GTW 2/6 Diesel Railbuses Gadiri seems to like.
> 
> Train spotting on the main Athens-Thessaloniki corridor, at Tempi Valley.
> Desiro EMU on train to Larisa, IC 71, train 501 (hauled by HellasSprinter electric locos) and again Desiro EMU on train to Thessaloniki.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceQ_tAycpZs
> 
> The Thessaloniki-Alexandroupoli line serving the regions of East Macedonia and Thrace will remain active: An AEG IC train entering to Lefkothea:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7_1N501zsA&feature=related
> 
> Volos-Larisa-Volos local service: MAN DMU on train to Volos departing Larisa Station:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJsE0pdpMsI
> 
> MLWs with freight train for Eidomeni passes Papadia bridge
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5MCfA2YsTk
> 
> The Athens-Halikda service is a fairly succesfull one. AEG trainsets on trains 1554/1557/1559 from/to Halikda, with the Halikda motorway cable-stayed bridge and a cement factory in the backround. Electrification infrastructure in place, awaiting activation.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxrqRZsI_XQ (This video's intro is very interesting as well)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L89VP57pmoU
> 
> Lots of train traffic at Oinoi Station, where the Halikda line branches of the main Athens-Thessaloniki corridor. Passenger and freight, local (to/from Halikda) and long distance (to/from Volos and Thessaloniki) trains.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_uDLV1eNAQ
> 
> Many things to see, many things alive, worth saving, supporting and using in the Greek Railways...


Sorry this is in french, but you can understand :

FAQ ~ About SSC ~ Uploading images and videos? 


Ωρτimuş;54814019 said:


> *Pour insérer des vidéos il suffit de recopier leurs codes d'identification*
> 
> Sur Youtube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NB: à ne pas copier le "*&*" et tout ce qui vient après
> 
> Sur Dailymotion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ensuite d'insérer le code entre les balises spécifiques à chaque type de vidéo
> 
> Exemples :*
> 
> 
> PHP:
> 
> 
> [MEDIA=youtube]Dk1PbptpjfQ[/MEDIA]
> 
> [dailymotion]x8a40x[/dailymotion]
> 
> code
> 
> code





Ωρτimuş;54814019 said:


> *
> Comment télécharger, réduire et poster vos images sur le forum
> 
> 
> Vous pouvez utiliser par exemple l'hébergeur http://imageshack.us/
> 
> 
> 1 - Chercher l'image à transférer
> 2 - Option de redimensionnement (seulement si l'image est trop grande)
> 3 - Choisir la résolution (800x600) ou autre
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> * 4 - Copier le Lien Direct *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *5 - Cliquez sur l'icône "Insert Image" *
> 
> *6 - Collez-y l'adresse du lien Direct*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Et c'est à peu près la même chose avec les autres hébergeurs d'images


----------



## Gag Halfrunt

Baron Hirsch said:


> For the international services, the best solution would be to turn over their operations to the neighboring companies (TCDD, BDZ, MZ) or better yet operate them in cooperation. If such a thing is possible in this part of the world, that is.


Most international trains in Europe are run on a co-operative basis anyway, and it's normal to see carriages from different countries coupled together. Locomotives are changed at border crossings. Don't Greek international services work this way?


----------



## Baron Hirsch

That is exactly how things work so far, the classic European way of doing it. What could be done now in the brave new world of EU capitalism is for example 
1.) TCDD could decide to keep operating the Philia (Constantinople - Salonica) train running at its own expense, just pay a fee to Greece for using rail infrastructure and operate on Greek soil without real involvement by OSE.

2.) Greece could offer operations of Eidomeni - Salonica to MZ, as the line is too short to be operated by itself, but would make sense as part of Skopje - Salonica line.

3.) There could be a cross-border swap of rolling stock, for ex. SZ is out of operable locomotives while after the present cuts, there should be plenty of unemployed engines in Greece. 

4.) Closed down lines could be offered by tender to the bidder who could operate them at the lowest price, i.e. with the least government subsidies. 

All of this should be the norm according to EU laws, but it all allows for quite a bit of legislation and bureaucracy, which according to my knowledge has not happened yet in Greece (or many other member countries). Also private of foreign companies on Greek rails would probalby prompt protest as this would endanger the livelihood of many citizens. All of this would take a lot of energy, creativity, and flexibility the like of which we have not seen in this part of the world in recent decades.


----------



## inhalealook

@Gadiri: Thank you for your help, I believe that the problem has been corrected now.



> 1.) TCDD could decide to keep operating the Philia (Constantinople - Salonica) train running at its own expense, just pay a fee to Greece for using rail infrastructure and operate on Greek soil without real involvement by OSE.
> 
> 2.) Greece could offer operations of Eidomeni - Salonica to MZ, as the line is too short to be operated by itself, but would make sense as part of Skopje - Salonica line.
> 
> 3.) There could be a cross-border swap of rolling stock, for ex. SZ is out of operable locomotives while after the present cuts, there should be plenty of unemployed engines in Greece.
> 
> 4.) Closed down lines could be offered by tender to the bidder who could operate them at the lowest price, i.e. with the least government subsidies.


Most interesting ideas, but, as you said, they need to be "processed" before they can be implemented. Let's hope there will be margin for some hope...


----------



## MarcVD

Baron Hirsch said:


> 1.) TCDD could decide to keep operating the Philia (Constantinople - Salonica) train running at its own expense, just pay a fee to Greece for using rail infrastructure and operate on Greek soil without real involvement by OSE.


This is the "open access" mode of operation proposed by the EU. However, it
is very unlikely to happen, because:

1) Turkey is not part of the EU and therefore the Open Access regime is not
applicable to TCDD;
2) It would require TCDD locs certified for use on the OSE network. This could
only happen quickly if, as you mention, OSE agrees to sell parts of its own
unused rolling stock;
3) It would also require TCDD drivers knowing (and certified) all the OSE
rules book and signalling, and also with good command of the greek language.

All that can be put in place but it will not happen overnight. And in the
mean time, customers will learn how to make do without the trains. Not
a lot of customers will remain once all the required bits are in place to
re-open the service...


----------



## inhalealook

A progress update from the construction of the 4-track Piraeus-Athens-Acharnes Junction (SKA) corridor in the Ilion (Nea Liosia) urban area. On the right one semi-corridor (double-track) is compleated and operational (apart from electrification, but the catenary ecquipment is in place), with the tracks "submerged" into a tunnel. On the left, the other double-track semi-corridor and the Suburban Railway station "Pirgos Vasilissis" are under construction and well under way, to be completed in 2011. 
Photo by Amnizia railfan forumer Fisherman









www.amnizia.com


----------



## Bart_LCY

^^ Thank you! I've been trying to find more info and pictures regarding this project and modernisation of Athens main railway station, but this almost impossible when one doesn't speek Greek. Is there a official website or at least a blog about this project? I'd love to see a map and more info about it.


----------



## panakosXX

@ inhalealook

Please remove my embeded videos. I have disabled the embeding option from YouTube but you still embeding my videos here...

It's not the first time happening in that period...

My videos are... In the previous page that with the Desiros on the line to Kiato and on that page that in Tempi and that with the MAN DMU in Larisa.

You can put just the URLs NOT EMBEDING THE VIDEO as I don't want to.


----------



## Svartmetall

panakosXX said:


> @ inhalealook
> 
> Please remove my embeded videos. I have disabled the embeding option from YouTube but you still embeding my videos here...
> 
> It's not the first time happening in that period...
> 
> My videos are... In the previous page that with the Desiros on the line to Kiato and on that page that in Tempi and that with the MAN DMU in Larisa.
> 
> You can put just the URLs NOT EMBEDING THE VIDEO as I don't want to.


If you have disabled the embedding feature on YouTube then the videos should simply show a link to your actual video on YouTube when anyone attempts to play them. The video above which you highlight (the Desiro video) simply shows for me that embedding is disabled and I got a direct link to your YouTube page meaning everyone else will too.


----------



## inhalealook

Some images of the current situation of the improvement works in the Athens Railway Station.
Views from the north entrance of the station. The new platforms are on the right. The infrastructure is almost ready, with shelters, elevators, escalators, tracks, illumination and electrification poles in place. The project is probably on hold for the moment, awaiting the resolution of the legal issues with the residents of the Sepolia urban area.

http://img249.imageshack.us/i/17012011009.jpg/
Some close-ups as well:


http://img440.imageshack.us/i/17012011010.jpg/
http://img251.imageshack.us/i/17012011012.jpg/

The project is obviously not ambitious from an architectual point of view. The main goal is only to improve somewhat the train traffic and passenger service in the Piraeus-Athens-SKA corridor and not, unfortunately, to create an urban landmark. Even so, it represents one of the important current OSE works in progress and should be presented here. We are looking forward to its completion...

@Bart LCY: The only official site with information regarding railway infrastructure works in Greece is the site of ERGOSE, the OSE subsidary handling construction. I don't know if you 'll find it helpfull:
http://www.ergose.gr/ergosesite/main.asp?CONTAINERID=1&LANGUAGE=2&REFCI=0 (in English).
There are many railfan sites as well.

@panakosXX: Your videos have been removed as you requested.


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## Baron Hirsch

Hello Greek rail fanatics, 
despite the scary news that all international trains to Greece would stop running, the Phila Express (Constantinople - Salonica) is still running here at Constantinople, and reports from Beograd and Sofia report that all or some trains are still running from there to Salonica as well. 
What is the situation now? Has there been an official statement on the continuation of the trains? And what has happened to the local Greek trains that were supposed to be cancelled? Are they also still running?


----------



## inhalealook

According to (unofficial) information from the TRAINOSE Facebook profile, the date of suspension of the international and local trains has been pushed back to next Friday, 21/01/2011, when new decisions are expected. Probably there is a lot of debate and internal OSE "turmoil" going on at the moment. The new ticket price policy has not been implemented yet either. Passengers-residents, railfans, local authorities etc in some cases are considering legal action against the Greek Railways if the services are actually discontinued. 
In the meanwhile, the public continues to support the railway, using the services that, according to the TRAINOSE official announcement in December, should have already been suspended from 1/1/2011:

Passengers in Thessaloniki Railway Station, ready to board local train 753 to Florina. The trainset is a double MAN 2000 DMU2. Two DMUs had to be used to meet with increased passenger demand. TRAINOSE was planning to suspend the Thessaloniki-Florina service since 1/1/11, but as of today 18/1/11 the services are still running and continue to appear in the TRAINOSE website, in the iteneraries search page: http://tickets.trainose.gr/dromologia/#
Photo was taken two days ago by railfan and TRAINOSE Facebook profile member Akis Dionisis:



http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/8654/16302413931399279498810.jpg

Passengers in Kalambaka station, waiting for the arrival of the local train to Larisa, with the spectacular Meteora mountains in the background. TRAINOSE was planning to suspend this service since 1/1/11 too, but as of today 18/1/11 the services are still running and also continue to appear in the TRAINOSE website, in the iteneraries search page. Photo taken a few days ago by railfan and TRAINOSE Facebook profile member Kostas Giann:



http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/1222/16688815547591950361416.jpg


----------



## sekelsenmat

Suburbanist said:


> it still part of the are of that useless pass.
> 
> I don't see why Interrail passes should keep existing anyway.


Suburbanist strikes again. You come to these forums just to annoy rail-fans or is it just a byproduct of your attempt to spam the message that radical neoliberalism is the only economic model for anything in the world?


----------



## Suburbanist

Stainless said:


> You can use the ferry from Stockholm to Turku using the pass. Also the pass is not useless as thousands of people if not millions use it every year. It is so easy and having the freedom to use any train (well almost any) is a good travelling experience. Unfortunately it doesn't fit into your ideals of everyone knowing what they are doing well in advance and purchasing a ticket that ties them to a schedule.


Interrail can also be used on ferries to Greece from Bari (Italy), to the extent of my knowledge.

As for the availability of trains on Interrail, it depends on the country, actually. International trains like Thalys and Eurostar have hefty surcharges and (in the case of Thalys) limited availability for passholders per train. 

In France, there is now a 2-tier reservation fee for TGVs with limited availability per trains also. In Spain extra fees are required on high-speed trains also and, in Italy, they are compulsory in all but regional services.

So it is the case that, usually, one can get cheaper fares carefully shopping, in advance, for the tickets one wants. But as for the existence of the pass, as long as no governments' subsidy is used to cover eventual losses on the Interrail scheme, that would be fine. It is now sufficient expensive so I don't think they make a loss in most countries, maybe in places like Germany with lower reservation fees and an expensive-to-keep rail system. There is no "right to backpack for cheap", many European youths of the past felt over-entitled to things like a rail pass you could buy with a week's summer job salary.


----------



## rrustema

This is my favourite thread on the forum. Thanks to anyone who uploaded pictures so far. I am interested to see what is the current situation between Athens and Patras. Could anyone write a few lines or perhaps post pictures? 

I am especially interested if the works have stopped or if they continue because it the contractor is obliged to do so. Thanks!


----------



## rrustema

*Athens - Patras*



Skaros said:


> *Athens - Patras new railway line*
> *1) Kiato - Aegion (71 Km) is under construction and it will be ready in 2010.The cost of the project is 578 million €
> 
> 2) Aegion - Patras (41 Km) will be ready in 2013.The cost of the project is 423 million €*
> 
> *The electrification of the section Athens-Corinth-Kiato will be ready in 2009 *while the rest part (untill Patras) will be ready in* 2013.*


I am mostly interested about this part. Is the project on hold or still progressing? Is Aegion reached already for example? Electrified or not.


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## arnau_Vic

go Greece!!


----------



## Nexis

Is Rail fanning / Train Spotting illegal in Greece?


----------



## urbanfan89

So what exactly is going to happen to the Greek railway system given the events of the past years and months?


----------



## Gag Halfrunt

^^ Severe cuts have already begun - for example, all international passenger trains have been discontinued. Just look back through this thread for the details.


----------



## Eagleg

rrustema said:


> I am mostly interested about this part. Is the project on hold or still progressing? Is Aegion reached already for example? Electrified or not.


The modernisation of the line and electrification has reached Kiato. Works for the modernisation of the line until Aegion are expected to be complete by 2014. Electrification of the line from Kiato to Aegion will follow. Hopefully, works on the remaining part to the city of Patra will be considered soon as the modernisation of this will upgrade immensely the role of train.


----------



## rrustema

> Hopefully, works on the remaining part to the city of Patra will be considered soon


If I understand correctly the last 40km of this line is not yet commissioned? It is budgetted and engineered on paper at least, I assume?


----------



## fisherboy

Hello everyone!

You have heard about the construction of the 4-track corridor between Athens and SKA (Acharnes junction). As you may know, the works between Athens central station and Tris Gefires (three bridges if you translate it literally!) have stopped and due to legislation it will take at least three years for the construction works to start again...

...on the other hand the section Tris Gefires-Agioi Anargiroi-SKA is being quickly constructed.

Below you can see some recent pictures from the works that I posted in the forum of www.amnizia.com.









This is Pirgos Vasilissis new station in Agioi Anargiroi, on the north end of the new tunnel. Picture taken mid-July.









The photo was taken from the same point as the photo above, now we look towards SKA. Here you can see an AEG DMU-4, it's headed to Athens from Lianokladi as train 3521.









Here is a picture from the new station Likotripa, between SKA and Pirgos Vasilissis. The picture was taken mid-July also.









Here is the new Agioi Anargiroi station. Photo taken from a bridge near the station.



























Photos from the platform.

The four last pictures from Agioi Anargiroi were taken a week ago. All of them are headed north except for the last photo which looks south, towards Athens.


----------



## inhalealook

A video of the "new look" on some of the Desiro EMUs, the "Blue Desiro", a specially liveried unit, advertising TRAINOSE, the operator of railways in Greece. It departs from Kiato to Athens airport.
Video by user panagos89.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve99-mutAOA&feature=related


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## rrustema

*No KTEL going to Kaito trainstation*

That is very nice, but how to go to Kaito trainstation, in the middle of nowhere? Not with public transport. KTEL buses do not bring passengers to their competitor of course. Only if you know someone who can bring you by car or if you are willing to take a taxi... There is no town centre within walking distance. 

KTEL should be required by law to set up their bus-stations next to trainstations.


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## RelaxInPireaus

is it new Desiro or just new style? finally no graffiti


----------



## inhalealook

@RelaxInPireus: It's one of the existing trains, it just has a new "skin", or livery, an external "decoration" with a membrane of sorts, advertising the new reduced ticket prices on the Athens-Thessaloniki line, even down to 9 Euros in some special occasions, when the passenger buys the ticket early (and only via Internet).


----------



## Bel Ludovic

RelaxInPireaus said:


> is it new Desiro or just new style? finally no graffiti


I saw this train when I was in Athens a few days ago and thought the livery looked really smart. Unfortunately, however, I have to report that one end of the train did appear to have graffiti all over it, already. OSE seem either unwilling or unable to adequately protect their train depots.


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## imaginas

Raillway Station "Paradisia" at Peloponisos.Is a station of a metric line (SPAP) in Arcadia.The line is new after the renovation with cost 80.000.000 euros,but no run trains in this becouse the Greek Goverments decided to stop all the trains in Peloponisos except the part Korinthos-Kiato by the new narrow gauge line.

The metric gauge line is the most beautifull train route in Greece...


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## imaginas

The Station of Chalkis.A small town 80km away from Athens.A destination for daily trip with train.


----------



## moskos

This is all so sad. I have such fond memories of circling the Peloponnese by train (including one night on the sleeper from Kalamata to Athens in 1992). 

Once they're gone, trains rarely come back. Greek trains were such a nice way to travel. I never even minded waiting for late trains. The stations were pleasant places to linger and drink wine. And on the trains you could open the windows and buy things at stations along the way. Yes, it was like a trip back in time. Was that so wrong? A beautiful, romantic (and inexpensive) trip through an amazing country.

A friend once asked me, "why don't you take the bus like a normal person?" That always struck me as strange. I never could figure out why I would would want to pay more to sit on a horrible bus for 3 hours (and end up at a bus station) when I could enjoy 5 pleasant hours on a train. 

Killing the train is really tragic considering so much money was recently pumped into Greek trains. I mean, they upgraded the tracks in the Peloponnese and then stopped all trains?! What was so wrong with the old system? It worked well enough. And the "new" rolling stock was never as nice to ride on. It was simply "modern." And now there's no train at all? Not even to Patras?! 

But here's my question maybe somebody could answer. Had massive EU money never been invested in the trains over the past decade or so, do you think they'd still be running? I know OSE never turned a profit, but could they have continued to limp along like they had for all those years? It wasn't like Greece was ever rich, and somehow OSE survived. Did the massive investment kill OSE by making it so much more expensive to maintain and operate?


----------



## zaguric2

Good,very good...


----------



## Suburbanist

moskos said:


> Once they're gone, trains rarely come back. Greek trains were such a nice way to travel. I never even minded waiting for late trains. The stations were pleasant places to linger and drink wine. And on the trains you could open the windows and buy things at stations along the way. Yes, it was like a trip back in time. Was that so wrong? A beautiful, romantic (and inexpensive) trip through an amazing country.


Buying things from the window is the epithet of a Third-World _scenario_. It is demoralizing and humiliating. Moreover, a train system cannot sustain itself with "people who don't even mind waiting for late trains". That is not how a transportation system should work, unless one is talking of touristic railways (or roads or cable cars or else), but then the economics of it should be different.



> I never could figure out why I would would want to pay more to sit on a horrible bus for 3 hours (and end up at a bus station) when I could enjoy 5 pleasant hours on a train.


For most people, time is money and buses had aircon well before any trains. 




> Killing the train is really tragic considering so much money was recently pumped into Greek trains.


It is a budget decision, nothing more, nothing less.



> I mean, they upgraded the tracks in the Peloponnese and then stopped all trains?! What was so wrong with the old system? It worked well enough. And the "new" rolling stock was never as nice to ride on. It was simply "modern." And now there's no train at all?


One can't analyze the problem ignoring the 'bigger picture', in the sense of the tectonic paradigm shift on Greek public finances. They were spending too much, for too long, and concealed the fact! So when the reckoning came, drastic measures had to be taken. Out of fiscal desperation, many public services were drastically cut. Complaining about trains? Museums nationwide got closed, especially those out of Athens and other big cities - and that in a place with a rich history. 



> But here's my question maybe somebody could answer. Had massive EU money never been invested in the trains over the past decade or so, do you think they'd still be running? I know OSE never turned a profit, but could they have continued to limp along like they had for all those years? It wasn't like Greece was ever rich, and somehow OSE survived. Did the massive investment kill OSE by making it so much more expensive to maintain and operate?


 Part of it was just a matter of increased safety standards. OSE couldn't keep being operate like it were 1975 anymore, because there are new demands on safety, signaling, standards... But I guess the fiscal crises would have killed the railways regardless.


----------



## moskos

Wow. Thanks for nothing. I wonder if anybody else could actually answer my question rather than go on an anti-train rant.

And the freeways they built at the same time? They're still being funded and kept up. So I guess it's not all just about things paying for themselves but about priorities. 

In terms of standards, I actually think OSE was operating like it was 1870 (cables to pull switches and manned crossings), not 1970. But best I can tell trains ran OK back then. 

And seriously, my point isn't that trains should run late. But planes run late and so do cars (or are there no traffic jams in Greece?). My point was that if I'm going to be stuck somewhere trying to get somewhere else, there's no better place to be waste a few hours than a train station in the Peloponnese, smelling orange blossoms, listening to the cicadas, and drinking a half-liter bottle of retsina. 

My other point was that the trains *did* run before a massive influx of money from the EU. Now they don't. So a bunch of money was spent (a lot of money!) to fix stations and tracks and now there are no trains? That certainly seems like the worse case scenario. The question I asked was had there been no influx of money, would the trains still be running (like them or not)?


----------



## Suburbanist

moskos said:


> In terms of standards, I actually think OSE was operating like it was 1870 (cables to pull switches and manned crossings), not 1970. But best I can tell trains ran OK back then.


But expectations and standards change in every area of industrial systems. Acceptable standards of safety for aircraft in 1935 would, today, be deemed suicidal and unacceptable. Certain standards for food production in 1960 today would be deemed criminally negligent.



> My point was that if I'm going to be stuck somewhere trying to get somewhere else, there's no better place to be waste a few hours than a train station in the Peloponnese, smelling orange blossoms, listening to the cicadas, and drinking a half-liter bottle of retsina.


Who cares about drinking? People want to go from point A to point B. This lax attitude is part of the problems of Southern Europe: people don't worry enough, and they take imperfections too easy, and use them as excuses to enjoy life instead of working more to fix them. But that is off-topic.



> My other point was that the trains *did* run before a massive influx of money from the EU. Now they don't. So a bunch of money was spent (a lot of money!) to fix stations and tracks and now there are no trains? That certainly seems like the worse case scenario. The question I asked was had there been no influx of money, would the trains still be running (like them or not)?


If no money had be put there, the line would have been more promptly closed! It used to run on the red, it is likely that the operational costs of the vehicles couldn't be recouped via fares, not before, nor now. The line wasn't closed because it was modernized: it was closed because an extremely serious financial crisis hit the country.


----------



## nastyathenian

Here is a video about Tempi tunnels:


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

Kallidromo railway tunnel


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

*Official Opening of Ikonio New Train Line - Special Train at Dafni Bridges.(28/02/2013)*

_"The new line from Thriasio to Ikonio Port has been completed. It is 17 km long and passes from many bridges over Pikilon Mnt at Western Athens. It is only for freight use in order to transfer containers from Piraeus port to Thriasio and Northern Greece and Balcans. This is a special train running only for the Opening reception at Ikonio. The minister of Transports and the minister of Marine as well as representatives of OSE and Cosco."_


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## 437.001

When will it be closed?


----------



## Baron Hirsch

Congrats on this small sign of light in the otherwise sad story of Greek rail investments. Some questions for those in the know: why will there be no passenger service on the line? Is this not still the larger Athens area where some commuters could profit from the line?
And what is the status of the missing new sections on the Athens-Thessaloniki line? Has all construction ceased there (that's what it looked like when I passed there last summer). And what about Kiato-Patras? Anything happening there or is there also grass growing on those tracks?


----------



## keber

KONSTANTINOUPOLIS said:


>


At 2:10, rails don't look to be laid as they should. Also why the line is not electrified?


----------



## rrustema

Yes, I would like to second the questions from Baron Hirsch. Any news?

In a news article about the 17km about Piraeus to Thriasio I read one extra line which might have big consequences:



> The government is hoping to sell 100% of Trainose to the private sector in June.


And I vaguely remember reading somewhere that perhaps the SNCF is interested? Any news about that?


----------



## traveler

nice!


----------



## SAS 16

How longt does it take the train Athens Thessaloniki?


----------



## Rexen

*Kalamata - Argos route current traffic*

Hello,
What is the chance that any train will be running on the Kalamata - Argos route? I know that regular passanger and freight trains was canceled but what is the chance of meeting any other type of train (ie. inspection).

What was the traffic on the line after suspending in 2011?

I am asking because I am checking if the line is suitable to be ridden on the railbike (of course before going on route we will consult with infrastructure owner).

Are there are any official documents about line state (ie. allowed speeds and train types). Does entering line at current state requires special written document? Are there are any barriers on the line? Are there any parts not passable (dismantled road crossing etc.)

If any inspection vehicle will go on the line from where it will start (Argos or Kalamata)

Who is the owner and administrator of the line (I presume OSE). I know that there is privatization in progress but I presume it does not include infrastructure.

Regards


----------



## rrustema

Could anyone translate this article. The automated translation is just confusing. 

Correct me if I am wrong, but I understood that at some point (when?) there will be a 710km electrified connection between Patras and Thessaloniki. A double line and the connection will take 4h55. 

69.5% is done, 25% is nearly done, 4% needs to be contracted and 1,5% (11km) is still on the drawing board.

The rest is unclear in the translation...


----------



## bwayne2

Giorgio said:


> I wasn't aware that these where the trains being used on this line.


Me Neither!


----------



## Baron Hirsch

rrustema said:


> Could anyone translate this article. The automated translation is just confusing.
> 
> Correct me if I am wrong, but I understood that at some point (when?) there will be a 710km electrified connection between Patras and Thessaloniki. A double line and the connection will take 4h55.
> 
> 69.5% is done, 25% is nearly done, 4% needs to be contracted and 1,5% (11km) is still on the drawing board.
> 
> The rest is unclear in the translation...


Trains a few years ago took a little more than 4 hours 15 mins, when there were still genuine express trains (single stop). Apparently in an effort to ruin OSE further the speeds of all trains have been reducd to 5 hours 15 mins, including stopovers at countless small towns. The final speed after all sections are finished must be below 4 hours, but with the state of things as they are, I doubt we will see that happen.


----------



## TedStriker

437.001 said:


> When will it be closed?


:lol:


Only just noticed this comment.


----------



## rrustema

Yesterday in the news, the train service from Kalamata will resume. Does anyone know the details? Heard it from someone who saw it on a local tv-channel, so I don't have a link. Thanks!


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## rrustema

Today in the news. Privatisation of TrainOSE. Three interested parties: French, Romanian and Russian/Greek. Some might only be interested in cargo and not passengers if I understand correctly. That would be a sort of USA scenario for rail: mostly cargo and in some urban areas a bit of public transport.


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## mpeculea

Like the Romanian GFR (Grup Feroviar Roman). Here they haul only freight, and they have recently bought the Romanian state freight railway company, CFR Marfa. They also bought the Croatian freight company. I do not know whether the transaction has been carried out, but I know that they have no expertise in passenger train operation.


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## TedStriker

^^

I can't see why SNCF is drawn towards rail operations in Greece.


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## mpeculea

They want to send their employees to holidays in Greece?


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## TedStriker

^^

You know, you're probably right.


----------



## homo faber

@rrustema:

Last Saturday (September 21st) a special excursion train ran from Kalamata to Marmaria (a remote train stop on the line to Tripolis) and returned. The train also entered the 5 km long branch line from Lefktro to Megalopolis. Photos can be found in www.amnizia.org and other sites.

From September 20th to September 28th local trains run between Kalamata and Messini from 14.00 hours till late so that people can visit the Messini fair. On the first weekend the trains were full. A cab ride video can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7OsrVGW4SU&feature=c4-overview&list=UUcPx5wRLd4p7Pu4-1nklslg (Cab ride to Messini)

Let's hope that regular suburban train traffic will resume soon in the area of Kalamata!


----------



## Shumenec

How much is max speed on the main line from bulgarian border to Athens?


----------



## sam.h

Rail link to Alexandroupoli Port gets go-ahead



> The company in charge infrastructure projects for the Hellenic Railways Organization (OSE) on Friday announced that an agreement has been signed to link the port of Alexandroupoli in northeastern Greece to the national rail network, facilitating the transport of cargo, especially to Bulgaria.


But what I don't understand is that the port is already linked. There's a rail placement right at the harbour. Does somebody know what sort of work will be done here?


----------



## TedStriker

^^

I don't think that rail tracks currently actually run on to the new quay that I can see on the aerial photos of the port. 

It's nothing exciting really as projects go, just the addition of a few sidings I expect.


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## sam.h

Two news items on the Railways of Greece:

Rail link to Kavala

Main take away is that the link is solely to the port east of Kavala, not to the ciy. Connecting the city would be probably difficult considering the cliffs and mountains the last 2km to the city. How busy is the port of Kavala anyway, compared to that of Alexanderpoulis and Tessalonki, both of which are connected by rail. 

3 suitors for OSE



> Trainose lost €187m in 2010 but its financial situation has improved dramatically in recent years, with the company generating a pre-tax profit of €1.2m in 2012. The company generated revenues of €140m, which includes a €50m public service obligation (PSO) payment from the Greek government. The government has pledged to continue paying the €50m PSO to Trainose until 2018 for non-commercial passenger services.


----------



## Lafaveiga_madrid

Kalimera everyone! I´m linving in Athens now, and this weekend i really want to go by train somewhere near here, in a one day trip. Any tip? Eyxaristo!


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## ovem

Hi Lafaveiga_madrid. I guess you missed this weekend but i could mention a couple of places you could visit by train from Athens another time.
The fact is that the most interesting places to visit in Greece are the Islands where you can't go by train, and the most beautiful places you can visit by train are far away from Athens, like Macedonia region in northern Greece and in Peloponnese where most of the network is under construction or non existent anymore. 
Why don't you try Chalkida? You can take the suburban train and be there in one hour and a half. There's one train per hour.
You could also go to Kalambaka and Meteora. 
The town isn't something special but the rocks are awesome.
The travel time is about 5 hours. If you take the 8:30 am from Athens you'll have a few hours to spend there until 5:30 pm when the last train to Athens departs. Otherwise, if you wanna stay, you can overnight and leave the other day.


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## Lafaveiga_madrid

Eyxaristw, *ovem*! I was looking for something near Athens, just to take a train ride! Anyway, thanks for the tips, I will look for the Chalkida tour.


----------



## rrustema

*News! Kiato-Rododafni railway contstuction contracted to METKA*

Today on http://english.capital.gr/News.asp?id=1972896 



> METKA S.A. announced ts appointment as the provisional contractor
> for the project "Construction of remaining infrastructure, permanent way,
> signalling-telecommanding, telecommunications and electrical engineering
> works for the tunnel facilities for the new railway line Kiato-Rododafni”


On a map https://goo.gl/maps/dJeUE


----------



## nachalnik

According to http://www.imerisia.gr/article.asp?catid=26510&subid=2&pubid=113250552 Greece will once again be connected by train to the rest of the world starting from 10th may, after all international trains have been discontinued 3 years ago.


Google-Translation:


_
ABROAD WITH TICKET FROM 12 EURO
The train will whistle for Skopje - Belgrade - Sofia
The train will whistle for Skopje - Belgrade - Sofia

Mary Moschos

New era begins for TRAINOSE from May 10 which opens the "Gateway " to the Balkans with daily passenger rail routes to Skopje - Belgrade and Sofia with very competitive fares .

Aiming to summer tourists and students , TRAINOSE resume routes that were discontinued in 2011 as part of the reorganization of the company having gone into international agreements that promise not only sustainability and profitability .

Speaking on ' ItS ' president and chief executive officer of TRAINOSE Ath Ziliaskopoulos stresses : "The consolidation of TRAINOSE completed , allowing us to bring international services in business longer basis and in order to offer competitive services from Thessaloniki to all the capitals of the Balkans and through these flights connect rail to Greece to Central and Western Europe .
The train will whistle for Skopje - Belgrade - Sofia

The company operates a daily route from Thessaloniki to Sofia and a route to Skopje and Belgrade and vice versa from Sofia to Thessaloniki and Belgrade and Skopje to Thessaloniki , while the goal is to combine and trades to the Athina.Endiaferon for such agreements have already expressed and other countries . Czech Republic , Slovakia , Russia and Romania already have an eye on Greece and are keen to restore the rail link with our country .

The route to Sofia
The route will begin at 7 despite five of Thessaloniki and arrives in Sofia at 2 pm . The train will leave from Sofia on 3 and 20 noon and arrives in Thessaloniki on 10 and 20 a night . On arrival passengers will be able to continue their journey to Athens by night itinerary starts from Thessaloniki at 11 pm and arrives in Athens this morning . Ticket prices will be much more competitive than those of buses and will apply multiple discounts . The cost for a single ticket will stand at 17.8 euros from Thessaloniki to Sofia , and a return would be up to 34.6 euros.

However, each route will offer 12 return ticket with only 25 euros , provided that it closed 15 days before the service . Daily routed a total of two cars , one of the TRIAINOSE and the other from the Bulgarian railways , while light still remains the possibility to launch and sleeping to Athens at the cost does not exceed EUR 100 for the A site and very economical prices to double or triple post. Originally on each route will be 130 seats available .

In the same context and examined the combination of routes with train service - taxi or train ; minibus, to tourists arriving from Sofia directly on the same night in accommodation in Halkidiki and the company already has at its disposal the transport costs which will be announced soon.

Beyond these moves for summer ( summer tourism to Halkidiki and Pieria , Platamonas ) TRAINOSE already studying and the corresponding movements of the winter ( Skiing holidays to Bulgaria ) .

The route to Skopje - Belgrade
The route will begin at approximately 4 pm from Thessaloniki and Skopje reaches 8 spite 5:00 p.m. ( local time ) . From Skopje departs in 15 minutes and arrives in Belgrade on 5 and a half in the morning . Belgrade train will leave at quarter to seven in the evening and arrives in Skopje at 5 in the morning . From there it runs on 5 and fourth and going in Thessaloniki on 11 and 17 in the morning ( local time ) .

Regarding prices , the return tickets will be offered for 2014 with a discount of 20 % in an attempt to gain ground line adjourned . Especially not for the period from 10 May to 10 June, the discount reaches 30 % for return tickets to return the world to train ! In particular, the prices of tickets from Thessaloniki to Skopje formed at 12.2 euros , while a return ticket will not exceed 19.6 euros.

From Thessaloniki to Belgrade ticket will cost 32 euros , while a return ticket cost would be up to 51.20 euros. It is noteworthy that the transition to Belgrade by bus cost 45 euro for one way and 80 euros for a return trip .

The train will include a wagon TRAINOSE a wagon Serbs , a sleeping ( wagon with seats that turn into beds ) Skopje and a vehicle sprawling Serbs ( voluntary movement ) . For summer Serbs will launch a wagon for transporting cars from Belgrade to Athens . Indeed for this summer will be 50% discount on the cost of transport vehicles will not exceed 50 euros from Belgrade to Thessaloniki and return to Belgrade . That is, someone pondering fuel costs if it chooses to drive the car from Belgrade to Thessaloniki and return easily understands that especially for foreign tourists in the Balkans TRAINOSE invites them in Greece . A point -the-scenes agreement to be reported and shows the close ties and feelings of people who work on trains , is the proposal of the Serbs , the route to be named " HELLAS " ( respectively former name before the interruption of international routes from Greece ) .

In September 1979 arrived at the railway station of Thessaloniki coming from Switzerland legendary ' Orient Express '.
It was the first and last time the famous train stepped in Greek rails and definitely the highlight of the Greek railway and its connection with European networks _


Nachalnik


----------



## MarcVD

Great news ! Let's try to confirm that, and then a post in the international railways thread will be on order !


----------



## fisherboy

It's official, today trains from Thessaloniki to Belgrade and Sofia start again. Here's the announcement of Trainose in greek.

The aforementioned announcement in english, translated by Google Translate:



> TRAINOSE announces the resumption of international rail routes from Thessaloniki with final destinations Belgrade and Sofia on 10th May 2014. New passenger services will be daily. A train will depart from Thessaloniki to Sofia and from Thessaloniki to Belgrade via Skopje , and vice versa from Sofia and Belgrade to Thessaloniki.
> 
> The resumption of service is the continuation of a long tradition of rail passengers traveling to the Balkans and Central Europe, and vice versa, while strengthening its position in the rail map of Thessaloniki.
> 
> Ticket prices for these new services will be competitive and will apply multiple discounts. It will also apply Eurail and InterRail deals and special offers for the Balkan countries, facilitating further economic movements of tourists from all over Europe and the Balkans to Greece and Greek holidaymakers.
> 
> Details :
> 
> *The route from Thessaloniki to Sofia*
> 
> The train departs at 06:55 from Thessaloniki and arrives in Sofia at 13:45 noon. The train will leave from Sofia at 15:30 noon and arrives at 22:22 in Thessaloniki at night.
> 
> The cost for the single ticket is EUR 16.80 EUR from Thessaloniki to Sofia while the ticket refund amounts to 33.60 euros. Note that each route will offer 12 return ticket charging 25 euros on the condition that it will be closed 15 days before the service.
> 
> *The route from Thessaloniki to Skopje - Belgrade «Hellas Express».*
> 
> The train will depart at 15:52 pm from Thessaloniki and Skopje arrives at 19:50 in the evening (local time). Skopje will depart at 15 and going to Belgrade to 5:33 am (local time). Belgrade train departs at 18:45 (local time) in the afternoon and arrives in Skopje on 4:44 (local time) this morning. Skopje will depart at 5:15 and arrival time in Thessaloniki at 11:16 am (local time) .
> 
> Note that you will apply a 20% discount on ticket prices and a return to the end of the year (2014). Also from May 10 to June 10 will apply special offer and discount reaches 30 % for return tickets.
> 
> So the price of tickets on the route Thessaloniki - Skopje is 12.20 euro one way while a return ticket will amounts to 19.50 euros.
> 
> From Thessaloniki to Belgrade ticket will cost 33.80 euros one way , while a return ticket cost amounts to 54.10 euros.
> 
> In addition to passengers traveling by train in Belgrade and vice versa will be provided - if they wish - services sprawling. Also , during the summer season , the composition of the trains will be added and wagon transportation vehicle passenger train.
> 
> 
> More information is available on the number 14511 and www.trainose.gr


----------



## Kolerus

Hello!Have you any news of tunel between SKA(acharnes junction) and Larrisa station?Or news about electrification Larrisa station and railway to Pireus?Thank you for news....


----------



## gippas

Kolerus said:


> Hello!Have you any news of tunel between SKA(acharnes junction) and Larrisa station?Or news about electrification Larrisa station and railway to Pireus?Thank you for news....


There are rumors that in the next few months there will be a bidding process for the SKA-Athens Train Station (former Larisa station) line that will include the electrification and the finishing of the station but not the undeground tunnel between the Athens station and the Tris gefires area, but nothing is concrete yet.


----------



## rrustema

There was a broadcast by 'Rail Away' on Dutch public television. This time they did Achia to Patras.

With Dutch subtitles and spoken in Dutch. 

http://www.npo.nl/rail-away/15-08-2014/VPWON_1222254

Will be on DVD in their webshop, but I doubt wether it will come with English subtitles.


----------



## gippas

A significant milestone was achieved last week as the tunnel of Othris was finally delivered in the center of Greece. The whole project consists of:

-A double rail tunnel of 6.4 km and a short double one of 630m a bit after its exit, plus another single one of 432m. The long one is the second longest rail tunnel in Greece
-A total of 5 rail bridges that all together have a length of 1.8 km

Now it remains for the tracks, signalling and electrification to be placed, which is part of another contracting. When finished, the line will allow speeds of up to 160 km/h with non tilting trains in a very mountainous terrain . More info in Greek at:

http://ypodomes.com/index.php/stath...κά-νούμερα-της-σιδηροδρομικής-σήραγγας-όθρυος

Also, there is a video with some pictures:


----------



## TedStriker

^^

Groovy music. I was tapping my foot throughout the video.


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

roaddor said:


> ^^
> This section of the railway passes very close to the Thermopylae pass (probably through a tunnel), doesn't it?


Yes, Kallidromo tunnel passes very close from Thermopyles

=================================================

Rododaphni – Psathopirgos (10-8-2016)


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

A very nice video explaining the construction of the road & rail Tunnels of Panagopoula


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

Panagopoula Tunnel: Progression of the cut and covers in the entrance of the tunnel



















http://www.ergose.gr/view_28


----------



## arsisc

Thank you for sharing any good knowledge and thanks for fantastic efforts


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

You are welcome


----------



## nsnt

thanks for any good person who give us information and help us


----------



## Kolerus

Is here any changes with new owner ΤΡΑΙΝΟΣΕ?


----------



## mureseanu976

Kolerus said:


> Is here any changes with new owner ΤΡΑΙΝΟΣΕ?


Yes, Trenitalia already bought Trainose. I've found a Czech article, I recommend using google translate to find out the details :

http://ekonomika.idnes.cz/italove-k...icni.aspx?c=A170117_074509_eko-zahranicni_fih


----------



## Kolerus

I meaned that trenitalia has some plans about ΤΡΑΙΝΟΣΕ.


----------



## mureseanu976

That would be very hard to predict since they've just got their ownership of Trainose. But judging by their immense budget for investments, I think there will be serious changes in passenger and freight traffic to attract more passengers and new customers. Anyway, kudos for Trenitalia for attempting to save Trainose...in the race was also mentioned Russian Railways but they haven't submited a bid, making the Italians the only ones to eventually win the bid.


----------



## clickgr

Now we can start dreaming of one day (maybe in another century) we may see high speed lines in Greece similar to those in Italy for routes like Athens-Thessaloniki, Thessaloniki-Istanbul, Thessaloniki-Sofia.


----------



## arctic_carlos

^^ Athens - Thessaloniki is currently being upgraded to high speed standards. Most of the line has already been upgraded, actually.

Once completed, this line, together with the new Athens - Patra line (already in service up to Kiato) will form the backbone of the Greek railway network, wich will result in huge time savings compared to the present day situation.

Works are in an advanced stage in execution in both lines, so in the short term the country will have a pretty decent railway connection between its 3 largest cities. I mean, there's no need for additional high speed lines.


----------



## clickgr

I know the situation in Greece, yes there is a lot of work going on but not towards real HSR. The new upgrades you are talking about are made for speeds mostly around 160km/h and in general for no more than 200km/h. I was talking about HS lines similar to those in Italy and other European countries for speeds up to 300+ km/h.


----------



## EduardSA

The sale to Trenitalia was concluded yesterday. Only thing pending is the approval of EU competition authorities (considering the €700 million state aid), which seems will not be an issue.

*Greece concludes sale of TRAINOSE to Italian railways*


----------



## nachalnik

clickgr said:


> Now we can start dreaming of one day (maybe in another century) we may see high speed lines in Greece similar to those in Italy for routes like Athens-Thessaloniki, Thessaloniki-Istanbul, Thessaloniki-Sofia.


Dreaming is possible, but it won't happen.


----------



## Bart_LCY

First electric train at Athens railway station - from Panos G - Greek and British railway videos YT channel:


----------



## rrustema

Bart_LCY said:


> First electric train at Athens railway station - from Panos G - Greek and British railway videos YT channel:


No fanfare, no politicians or train company officials? No free gifts, souvenirs? No excited crowds? No media event? Or did that happen at another moment?

I did notice the smudges from an attempt to clean graffiti from the side...

Edit: I now see in the title of the video that it was a test run. That explains why only trainspotters showed up.


----------



## Baron Hirsch

From where to where did it run? Piraeus? SKA? Up north? Corinth? 
Pardon my ignorance, but I have not been to town for a while and do not know about the progress of electrification or track upgrading in recent years.


----------



## lowrence

Hey there, i have 1 question about the tracks to the airport in the middle of the motorway.
Are they used both by the metro and by commuter trains?
The line is 25 kV 50Hz, isn't it? 
If this is right, were does is the junction between rail and metro?


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

lowrence said:


> Hey there, i have 1 question about the tracks to the airport in the middle of the motorway.
> Are they used both by the metro and by commuter trains?


Yes, by both, metro and the suburban railway.



> The line is 25 kV 50Hz, isn't it?


I dont know.


> If this is right, were does is the junction between rail and metro?


Here, the area is called "Doukissis Plakentias"



















photo 1: airphotos.gr
photo 2: bing maps

---------------------------------------

In the first photo on the left of the green signs is the suburban station of DP.
Also underground is the metro station of DP.

Metro station "Doukissis Plakentias"


----------



## roaddor

arctic_carlos said:


> ^^ Athens - Thessaloniki is currently being upgraded to high speed standards. Most of the line has already been upgraded, actually.
> 
> Once completed, this line, together with the new Athens - Patra line (already in service up to Kiato) will form the backbone of the Greek railway network, wich will result in huge time savings compared to the present day situation.
> 
> Works are in an advanced stage in execution in both lines, so in the short term the country will have a pretty decent railway connection between its 3 largest cities. I mean, there's no need for additional high speed lines.


Not only, I will add to the above the projected fast line (up to 200 km/h) Thessaloniki-Kavala-Toxotes as well as Thessaloniki-Idomeni.

Also very important is the upgrade of the existing lines Toxotes-Alexandroupolis-Ormenio and Thessaloniki-Promachonas, the construction of a new line Igoumenitsa-Ioannina-Kalabaka and the connection Serres-Kavala. So there are plenty of interesting projects to be implemented.


----------



## roaddor

KONSTANTINOUPOLIS said:


> The 10 biggest railway tunnels of the country (current and future):
> 
> 10) Kakia Skala tunnel - 2.4 km - In use
> 
> 9) Platamonas tunnel - 2.6 km - In use
> 
> 8) Trapeza tunnel - 2.7 km - Scheduled operation 2016
> 
> 7) Platanos tunnel - 2.7 km - Scheduled operation 2016
> 
> 6) Aegio tunnel - 3.5 km - Scheduled operation 2016
> 
> 5) Perama tunnel - 3.5 km - In use
> 
> 4) Panagopoula tunnel - 4.4 km - Scheduled operation 2017
> 
> 3) Tempi tunnel - 5.0 km - In use
> 
> 2) Othryos tunnel - 6.4 km - Scheduled operation 2017
> 
> 1) Kallidromos tunnel - 9.2 km - Scheduled operation 2017
> 
> http://www.ypodomes.com/index.php/st...B4ας


Could you please update the status of this list?


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

> The 10 biggest railway tunnels of the country (current and future):
> 
> 10) Kakia Skala tunnel - 2.4 km - In use
> 
> 9) Platamonas tunnel - 2.6 km - In use
> 
> 8) Trapeza tunnel - 2.7 km - Scheduled operation 2016 --> end of 2017
> 
> 7) Platanos tunnel - 2.7 km - Scheduled operation 2016 --> end of 2017
> 
> 6) Aegio tunnel - 3.5 km - Scheduled operation 2016 --> end of 2017
> 
> 5) Perama tunnel - 3.5 km - In use
> 
> 4) Panagopoula tunnel - 4.4 km - Scheduled operation 2017 --> 2018
> 
> 3) Tempi tunnel - 5.0 km - In use
> 
> 2) Othryos tunnel - 6.4 km - Scheduled operation 2017 --> summer 2017
> 
> 1) Kallidromos tunnel - 9.2 km - Scheduled operation 2017 --> summer 2017


You can check also the following nice video which shows the progress (15-3-2017) of the line Tithorea – Lianokladi. 
Othryos & Kallidromos tunnels are part of the line Tithorea – Lianokladi – Domokos.


----------



## roaddor

^^
Thanks a lot kay:. I guess the majority of these tunnels are newly built in joint ventures, with Terna at the front line. Greece sets the benchmark for rail-road modernization on the Balkans despite all domestic (I am sure there are such) and foreign impediments. Keep it up with the good work, this is positive for the whole region.
Kallidromo is a true example for a HSR line through complex terrain. What will be the total distance between Athens and Thessaloniki when the new line is completed? I have read that it could take 3.5 hours to travel between the two cities but it is also possible to reduce that time to as much as 3 hours depending on the train capabilities and the intermediate stops.


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

You are welcome. Yes, when the line Tithorea – Lianokladi – Domokos it is complete the travel time from ATH to THE and vice versa will be 3.5 hours max.


----------



## Baron Hirsch

Thanks too! And greeting from Konstantinoupolis. But I remember before 2008 there were single stop trains that ran much faster than today, when all trains have multiple stops and traveling time is 5.20 (and often much more). Will OSE actually start operating such express trains again or will we have this new infrastructure without any real use?


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

Hi Baron, how are you? About the line ATH - THE i read this article (http://www.ypodomes.com/index.php/m...i-oi-sidirodromikes-metafores-kai-stin-ellada) today and it says that the upgraded section Athens - Lianokladi will be ready at the end of this summer. The final section (Lianokladi - Domokos) of the line ATH - THE will be ready in the mid. of 2018. So in the mid. of 2018 when the whole line will be complete the travel time will drop from 6 hours which is today to 3 hours & 25 minutes.


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

7-8-2016 : Section Polykastro - Eidomeni (Thessaloniki - Eidomeni line)






------------------------------

18-03-2017 : Railway bridge 26 (Tithorea - Lianokladi - Domokos line)


----------



## roaddor

^^
Thessaloniki-Eidomeni will be a single, electrified railway designed for 160km/h, won't it?


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

Yes single line at the present stage but the project contain also infrastructure for a double railway line.


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

KONSTANTINOUPOLIS said:


> *Thriassio Pedio Complex (Phase Β')*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/Ergose-SA-589027837931019/photos/?tab=album&album_id=626040237563112


Progress



















https://www.facebook.com/bobotisarc...1491697722./10154989823327324/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/bobotisarc...82801717323/10154989823057324/?type=3&theater


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

More from Thriassio Pedio, a very nice aerial video .


----------



## roaddor

Were there any ideas initially to build the bridge at Rio with a railway line/ pair of lines or it was planned to carry only road traffic from the very beginning?


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

I think from the beginning the idea was to be used only by cars. Speaking about bridges, progress of railway bridge 26


----------



## Bart_LCY

From Keep Talking Greece website:



> Train derails, crash into house, 3 dead, 7 injured – videos, pictures
> 
> May 14, 2017
> 
> 
> Greece train crash: At least three people died and seven were injured when a passenger train derailed in Northern Greece and literally ripped through a house on Saturday night. The Intercity I/C 58 with 70 passengers and 5 crew members was traveling from Athens to Thessaloniki.
> 
> The derail occurred at the entrance of the small town of Adendros, around 37 km before the train reached its final destination.


More here


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

Update: Kiato - Rododafni Line


----------



## Bart_LCY

^^

Looking good! When is it scheduled to open?


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

Some very nice aerial photos of the section Kiato - Rododafni (Aigio) in Peloponnese



























































































http://www.ergose.gr/view.php?&id=27&lang_code=en


----------



## rrustema

Why are the stations outside of town? Is that to prevent pedestrians to take the train? How are the public transport connections from the station to where people live? Or will it be taxi/car only? I assume that KTEL will boycott the train and will never stop anywhere close to a train station just to make life for the Greeks and tourists a bit more difficult where they can?


----------



## clickgr

rrustema said:


> Why are the stations outside of town? Is that to prevent pedestrians to take the train? How are the public transport connections from the station to where people live? Or will it be taxi/car only? I assume that KTEL will boycott the train and will never stop anywhere close to a train station just to make life for the Greeks and tourists a bit more difficult where they can?


Which town are you talking about?


----------



## Baron Hirsch

He is just referring to the fact that of the 3 (?) stations shown above, 2 seem to be outside of the city center and seem to only have a huge car park, rather than any signs of urban infrastructure. Where are these places anyways?


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

^^ Check the link in my last post, also there will be 3 railway stations and 6 stops, you can see some of them in the photos i posted. The stations are somewhat outside the populated areas because i think that in the future they will serve also the suburban railway or something like that.


----------



## EduardSA

*Green light for Trainose sale*



> The case of state subsidies to railway companies OSE and Trainose is closed, finally opening the way for the latter’s privatization next month after a long wait.
> 
> On Friday the European Commission announced it was shelving the investigation into state support to the Greek railway firms, while Italian Prime Minister Paolo Gentiloni revealed that the agreement for the sale of 100 percent of Trainose to Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane would be completed in early July in his presence as well as that of his Greek counterpart, Alexis Tsipras.


----------



## rrustema

The ones in the pictures above, posted June 16th, 2017, 03:00 AM.


----------



## clickgr

Baron Hirsch said:


> He is just referring to the fact that of the 3 (?) stations shown above, 2 seem to be outside of the city center and seem to only have a huge car park, rather than any signs of urban infrastructure. Where are these places anyways?


If I understood correctly, based on the link in the post of KONSTANTINOUPOLIS, the 3 stations are Xilokastro, Akrata and Aigio. None of them is a big city or a metropolitan area that justifies the need of a train station located somewhere inside the urban area. 

Populations: Xilokastro 5.500, Akrata 5.899, Aigio 20.422.

I do not think it is such a problem to have the station a bit outside. In fact it is much better like this, since there is more space to accommodate parking areas or other commercial facilities in the future. These stations are not meant to serve only the near by small towns but the whole surrounding area including other towns and villages.


----------



## rrustema

clickgr said:


> None of them is a big city or a metropolitan area that justifies the need of a train station located somewhere inside the urban area. (...) These stations are not meant to serve only the near by small towns but the whole surrounding area including other towns and villages.


Well put, thank you. Indeed, that was what my question was about. How is the rural surrounding connected? Car only? Will KTEL stop at the train stations? Or at least a comfortable connection anywhere on this line?


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

Updates:

Railway bridge T26 & Lianokladi station








fotisp said:


> Εικόνα της ΣΓ26 απο το τρένο πριν μια βδομάδα
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Και ο Σταθμός Λιανοκλαδίου


Thriassio Pedio



















https://gr.linkedin.com/in/lukas-bobotis-0944ba12



















https://www.facebook.com/bobotisarchitects/

Btw, if anyone interested about similar projects in the country he can check the following nice threads:

ATHENS | Public Transport

THESSALONIKI | Public Transport


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

Athens Railway Station






Thessaloniki 

underpass






Lianokladi (Line Tithorea - Domokos) 

24/6






Stirfaka - Karya (Line Tithorea - Domokos)

2 very nice aerial videos from the area

24/6






20/7


----------



## arctic_carlos

^^ Is the whole line from Ska to Piraeus now electrified? Or only between SKA and Athens (Larissa Station)?

Thanks!


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

Hi Carlos, this is the suburban railway of Athens. From Athens R.S you can go to 3 directions. 1) Athens center '- Airport 2) Athens - Chalkis (Evia) 3)Athens - Kiato (Peloponissos). All electrified. In the end of this month the Zefyri stasion will open. The electrified part Piraeus - Athens i thing will be ready this October. The network is quite complicated and i must check a map so i can be more precise.


----------



## nastyathenian

The map of the Athens suburban railway is right here:

http://www.trainose.gr/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/suburban_athens_from_07_2017.pdf


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

Thriassio Pedio





































======================

It was mentioned before, this is SKA (Acharnes Railway Center)




























all photos are from www.ergose.gr


----------



## 3737

I saw some interesting news about the V250 in the Dutch press which I need some help with.
Last week a bus company was taken over by FS Italiane the CEO of FS Italiane, Renato Mazzoncini was interviewed about hte takeover but also about the V250 which they've bought from the Dutch Railways.



> FS Italiane is ook het moederbedrijf van Trenitalia, koper van de Fyratreinen die door Nederland werden afgedankt. Mazzoncini: „Die problemen waren beperkt tot de deuren, in de winter. Daar hebben we in Italië geen last van. We moeten alleen de kleuren aanpassen, jullie hadden het interieur oranje en roze geschilderd.” De Fyra’s worden onder meer ingezet in Griekenland tussen Thessaloniki-Athene. „Dat is een nieuwe spoorlijn, daar past een nieuwe trein op.”


Link

The above part of the interview translated:


> FS Italiane is also parent company of trenitalia, buyer of the fyra trains which were discarded by the Dutch Railways. Mazzoncini: „Those problems were limited to the doors, in winter conditions. We don't have that kind of problem in Italy. We only have to change the colors. You've decided to paint them orange and pink." The Fyra's will also be used in Greece between Thessaloniki and Athens. „That is a new railway line, which wil suit a new train.”


With Fyra's Mazzoncini means the V250 which were discarded by the Dutch railways after a lot of problems.








Link

Has some of you heard this news in Greece about using the V250 between Thessaloniki and Athens before? 
I'm following the news about the fate of the V250 close but this information is new to me.


----------



## gippas

The purchase of Trainose by Trenitalia has not been officially signed yet (though that seems to be just a matter of time) so there are no specific details about Trenitalia's future plans regarding rail stock. So far Trainose has been using Siemens stock which is leased by the state. 

In any case, the line that will be able to accommodate such a train will not be fully electric until next year.


----------



## Richard_P

gippas said:


> In any case, the line that will be able to accommodate such a train will not be fully electric until next year.


 Well those trains (V250) won't be operational ready at least before June 2018 when first are set to enter revenue services in Italy or at least this is what RGI is writing about it so everything is possible as those may be cheaper than leasing Greek rolling stock.


----------



## MarcVD

Those people have not seen yet what the weather conditions can be in northern Greece during winter. Certainly as much snow as in the Netherlands, which has very mild winters because of the gulf stream. We have not finished laughing yet...


----------



## 8166UY

Plus snow and the doors weren't the only problems. There were numerous, even with small fires, failing safety systems etcetera. Also, fixing the problems was a problem itself because all the trains were different because they didn't build them according to the blueprint, but just however they seemed fit. Good look searching errors in undocumented electronical circuits.


----------



## Richard_P

I understand Your concerns because V250 is frankly a junk which fact that from 19 produced by AnsaldoBreda eventually only 17 are to be used with remaining 2 already serving as donor for spare parts only confirms. Generally Trenitalia doesn't need those trains as those are suppose to replace much better Pendolino sets which still have service life to continue its operations ETR485 were produced in 1997 thus have only 20 years of service (from30-40 which rail rolling stock can last) while ETR600 is roughly 10 years old. Not to mention that Pendolinos have tilting system while V250 not so its travel time will be longer. The only fact that Trenitalia is taking over V250 is due to covering some big asses from heavy losses due to this botched business. So Trenitalia must take it regardless of costs and as it now seems there is option to ditch this problem to Greece. Here situation is slightly different as train operator doesn’t have its rolling stock which must be leased from state so why not to bring your own even crappy one? And basically this is the whole the story.


----------



## ariskop

New progress video have been released 

Summary





And detailed one:

Kiato - Rododafni (Athens - Parta corridor)





Rododafni - Psathopyrgos (Athens - Parta corridor)





Thriasio logistic center (close to Athens)





Polykastro - Idonemi (border with FYROM) 





Tithorea - Domokos (Athens - Thessaloniki corridor)


----------



## Richard_P

As RGI informs:
FS completes acquisition of Greek national operator Trainose


----------



## M-NL

They operate 350 trains a day with only 672 staff? How do they do that, because that would make them one of the most efficient mixed traffic railways in the world?


----------



## LUCAFUSAR

Richard_P said:


> I understand Your concerns because V250 is frankly a junk which fact that from 19 produced by AnsaldoBreda eventually only 17 are to be used with remaining 2 already serving as donor for spare parts only confirms. Generally Trenitalia doesn't need those trains as those are suppose to replace much better Pendolino sets which still have service life to continue its operations ETR485 were produced in 1997 thus have only 20 years of service (from30-40 which rail rolling stock can last) while ETR600 is roughly 10 years old. Not to mention that Pendolinos have tilting system while V250 not so its travel time will be longer. The only fact that Trenitalia is taking over V250 is due to covering some big asses from heavy losses due to this botched business. So Trenitalia must take it regardless of costs and as it now seems there is option to ditch this problem to Greece. Here situation is slightly different as train operator doesn’t have its rolling stock which must be leased from state so why not to bring your own even crappy one? And basically this is the whole the story.


Don't worry, the V250 will never be used outside of Italy.


----------



## LUCAFUSAR

MarcVD said:


> Those people have not seen yet what the weather conditions can be in northern Greece during winter. Certainly as much snow as in the Netherlands, which has very mild winters because of the gulf stream. We have not finished laughing yet...


"Those people" surely know many things better than you, since they were the ones that completely rebuilt many AnsaldoBreda's and other franco/german crap and put them on reliable service.

So, yes, given Trenitalia's good record in "fixing" all sort of problems, we have not finished laughing yet...


----------



## DillDillDill

Hello,

First time poster here so please be gentle! 

Does anyone have idea when the new Tithorea - Lianokladi HS section opens? 

I am looking to travel on the scenic existing route before too late.

Having searched online (which found me here) there seems to be very little info around when the section will actually open for service trains.

Any info greatly appreciated


----------



## Baron Hirsch

I have read January in another forum.


----------



## gippas

DillDillDill said:


> Hello,
> 
> First time poster here so please be gentle!
> 
> Does anyone have idea when the new Tithorea - Lianokladi HS section opens?
> 
> I am looking to travel on the scenic existing route before too late.
> 
> Having searched online (which found me here) there seems to be very little info around when the section will actually open for service trains.
> 
> Any info greatly appreciated


There were rumours that the new section would start operating in November. However it seems that some minor works still need to be made. There is a good chance though that it will open before the end of the year


----------



## DillDillDill

Many thanks for the replies so far, very helpful. If anyone else has anything to add I'd love to hear.


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

Railway bridge T26

Progress - 3/11/2017


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

Lianokladi station

Progress - 3/11/2017


----------



## DillDillDill

Just a quick note to update my earlier posts - managed a short trip to travel the soon to close Tithorea – Lianokladi and Lianokladi – Domokos scenic single line sections through the hills.

The new line from Tithorea – Lianokladi which was supposed to open in Autumn 2017 looks to have a few weeks work left on it judging by the amount of missing OLE equipment at the Lianokladi end. 
The new Lianokladi – Domokos line has many sections where the track and OLE is still to be installed.


----------



## ilyan

What about electrification line Thessaloniki-Athens in total distance? When it should be finished?


----------



## Richard_P

Chris Mavropoulos published cabview from Thessaloniki to Larissa. In general someone should cut those tress and do really some of colour light signals are out of service (white cross on them)?


----------



## M-NL

I've noticed several times that orange/yellow and red aspects are sometimes very difficult to distinguish in Youtube videos. If it's not that then Greek signalling confuses me a bit: At 3:44 and 4:20 it looks like the signals are red (and do not have a white cross), yet the train passes them at speed. Also signals with white crosses should not display any aspect, again to avoid confusion, yet the signal at 5:02 does (again red).


----------



## Richard_P

^^It's common on videos that colours on signals differ from what is in reality so the best way of distinguishing them is looking at their position on the signal post. Unfortunately I don't have any data regarding signalling rules in Greece so can't provide any details to that.


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## roaddor

What will be the distance from Athens to Thessalonki when the railway line is modernized? Approximately 480km?


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## ICExpress

Hello,

The distance will be approximately 490km (Thessaloniki-Domokos is 232km, Athens-Tithorea is 156km, and the new Tithorea-Domokos section will be 106km).

Regarding the new section, a large safety test was conducted yesterday within the Kallidromo tunnel aswell as several measurements in the past months. On the 8th of January, the Tithorea-Lianokladi part will be "inaugurated", as the final tests will be held with the presence of the Minister of Transport. The line (single track with diesel traction for now, double electrified track will be completed in April) will officially open for passenger usage by the end of the month, if everything goes well. The Lianokladi-Domokos part is planned to be completed by June, yet there's still a significant amount of work left. Also, the electrified part of the track coming from Athens was recently expanded from Piraeus to Tithorea. Several sites mention the usage of electric traction from Thessaloniki to Domokos, a switch to diesel for the Domokos-Tithorea part, and then back to electric all the way to Athens, to take full advantage of it (even though that would probably create a larger delay, with each locomotive switch at around 12 min / we will find out the train compositions within the following days). About the video, the signals with white crosses are indeed out of order, and will be restored by the end of the year, leading to an increased capacity in the Thessaloniki-Athens line.


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## ICExpress

Everything went well today at the final test on the Tithorea-Lianokladi route, with a large group of railway officials and journalists on board the train. The new section will commence from February 1st, meaning that the old scenic line through Bralos will no longer be used (at least for now, there are some ideas on it being used as a tourist railway, while the residents of the villages that will no longer be serviced are complaining). And some photos:

From the Kallidromon test:
http://www.ergose.gr/files/uploads/images/11991330055a532f832178c145285523.jpg

http://www.ergose.gr/files/uploads/images/3991185145a532f8321899321604391.jpg

http://www.ergose.gr/files/uploads/images/9797808235a532f8321d84066455167.jpg

And from today's inauguration:
Lianokladi renovated station (not entirely completed)
























More:http://www.mag24.gr/athina-lamia-se-1misi-ora-etoimos-o-neos-s-s-lianokladiou-vinteo-fotografies112/

Hopefully there will be a cab ride video or an aerial one available soon, as the existing ones don't show much.


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## EduardSA

Awesome updates, thanks ICExpress :cheers:

Do you have any info on the new rolling stock TrainOSE will use from Trenitalia?


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## ICExpress

Sadly there's no update on the rolling stock the company will use, so far. At the previous press conference that TrainOSE held, the CEO mentioned that new rolling stock will be used along with the completion of the line, but didn't provide any further details. He did mention though, that there will be another conference with representatives from Ferrovie Dello Stato, in which they will make several announcements. 

Also, today was an historical day as the first electric locomotive hauled InterCity service departed from Athens Central. It is the first time that an Hellas Sprinter locomotive is used in the part of the line after Domokos. For now, two InterCity services will be hauled by an electric locomotive from Athens to Tithorea, where there won't be a locomotive change, but two ADTranz diesel locomotives will be coupled in front, hauling the train all the way to Domokos. There, they will be detached and the same locomotive will be used all the way to Thessaloniki.

And a couple of videos:

A short cab ride in the new section:





The first electric locomotive hauled InterCity outside Athens:


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## roaddor

There are claims that Athens-Thessaloniki will be taken in 3 hours and 20 minites, once the whole line gets completed. I am interested what will be the minimum number of intermediate stations in order to achieve this travel time. The train will definitely call at Larissa, Lianokladi (for Lamia), Paleofarsalos (for Kalabaka branch), Platy (for Florina branch) and I also guess at Katerini, Livadia, Thiva, Oinoi (for Chalkida). This implies an average speed of at least 170km/h. Is that feasible over the whole railway line?


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## clickgr

I think considering the size of the cities and the population of the areas the line serves, It really makes sense to have at least 2 direct non-stop schedules per day between Athens and Thessaloniki. 3 hours and 20 minutes can be competitive to airplane if ticket prices are considerably lower. To be straight competitive in the sense that airplane schedules can be even cut, this journey time has to drop down to 2,5 hours or even more if possible.


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## ICExpress

Based on some statements that were made, a total of 3h and 20min is calculated with only 1 stop at Larissa. The maximum speed in Thessaloniki-Domokos is currently 200km/h according to ΕΡΓΟΣΕ, the new Domokos-Tithorea section is planned for 160-200km/h, and the section from Tithorea to Inoi has been upgraded to 200km/h. I'm not quite sure about the part from Inoi to Athens, but some works will be done soon to increase the track speed. Despite the upgrades in the previous sections, there are several parts in which the trains have to slow down due to the disabled signalling, that cause delays, which will hopefully be repaired by the end of the year. The rolling stock (electric locomotives) have some issues aswell that have to be resolved in order to achieve higher speeds, as they are currently limited to 140km/h. Regarding the stops, there will probably be around 1 or 2 for the Expresses, similar to other direct high speed trains in other countries, but probably the same ones as now for the slower services.

And something interesting: On the 17th of January a contract will be signed between ΓΑΙΑΟΣΕ (owner of OSE rolling stock) and Rail Cargo Goldair, the first private rail company in Greece, for a lease of 4 locomotives (2 diesel and 2 electric). Rail Cargo Goldair is a collaboration between the Greek Goldair logistics company and the Austrian Rail Cargo Group (OBB), and is planning to run its first cargo trains in the Thessaloniki-Idomeni line in the following months, after having already received a permission to use the Greek rail network.


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## ICExpress

The new Athens Suburban Railway (Proastiakos) timetable was published yesterday. With the electrification of the line from Athens to Piraeus, most of the services (from Athens Airport and Kiato) will now finish at Piraeus, and will be done by an electric train, for the first time. The new timetable can be found here: http://www.trainose.gr/en/passenger-activity/suburban-railway/athens-suburban-railway/ 

Regarding the new Tithorea-Lianokladi line, according to recent updates, it will be initially used by freight trains from February 1st, and a few days later, by passenger ones. Despite the upcoming usage of the new line, there haven't been any changes in the InterCity train timetables so far, but many people are expecting even some slight changes in the overall duration of the Thessaloniki-Athens trip. We'll find out in the following days.

And some interesting videos:

The last trains crossing the mountainous Tithorea-Lianokladi section





Suburban and InterCity services in Athens





And a photo: IC 53 passing the Lenorman Av. crossing.


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## Robi_damian

So now the line from Athens to Thessaloniki is fully electric?


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## ICExpress

The status of the Athens-Thessaloniki line is the following:

- Athens to Tithorea: Double electrified line
- Tithorea to Lianokladi (new line): Electrification will be completed in April
- Lianokladi to Domokos: The new double electrified line will probably be completed around June-July / For now it's a single non-electrified old one.
- Domokos to Thessaloniki: Double electrified line

A few updates:

The new suburban railway (Proastiakos) timetable was activated yesterday successfully. The, until now, underserviced Piraeus station is now a terminal for most suburban services, operated by Desiro EMUs. Here's video of the first Piraeus-Athens Airport service.





Also, the first freight trains will be crossing the new Tithorea-Lianokladi line today. Probably there won't be any quality footage as they travel during the night. The passenger trains are expected in the following days (maybe Monday).


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## Ghostpoet

ICExpress said:


> The status of the Athens-Thessaloniki line is the following:
> - Tithorea to Lianokladi (new line): Electrification will be completed in April
> Also, the first freight trains will be crossing the new Tithorea-Lianokladi line today. Probably there won't be any quality footage as they travel during the night. The passenger trains are expected in the following days (maybe Monday).


So, the Tithorea to Lianokladi will be diesel operated? When the electrificion will befinished?

Ghostpoet


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## ICExpress

> So, the Tithorea to Lianokladi will be diesel operated? When the electrificion will befinished?


As I mentioned in the previous post, electrification will be finished in early April. The line will be diesel operated for now.

Another historical day in the Greek railway network, as the first freight train crossed the new Tithorea-Lianokladi line yesterday. Train number 80500 led by a pair of MLW locomotives to be precise. Some photos:

Inside the Kallidromon tunnel









At Tithorea's renovated station









Sources:http://mixanodigoiose.blogspot.gr/2018/02/m.html
http://mixanodigos.blogspot.gr/2018/02/blog-post_86.html


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## Richard_P

And if someone is interested in cabview of new section I've found one (click) although I warn that it is speeded up, low quality of just 360p and with dreadful copyright sign in the middle spoiling those rests of low quality picture. But if anyone is interested in whole stretch at this moment this is the only way to see it (or at least I haven’t found anything with higher quality).


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## Ghostpoet

What is the exact lenght of the Tithorea-Lianokladi section?

Thank you!

Ghostpoet


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## volodaaaa

Can someone briefly sum up the history of Athens - Thessaloniki modernization project? I regularly visit Greece and the progress looks really interesting. How long has it taken so far? What is the proposed speed? Are the lines equipped with the ERTMS?

We have a very similar project with much less serious modernization that has been ongoing since 1998, but the pace is incredibly slow and the construction is very expensive.

Thank you very much. Keep it up.


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## Richard_P

^^More details can be found here (click), construction start 1997, completion date 2018 so 21 years in the making. Even taking into consideration long tunnels this seems twice as long as it should have taken and price tag of 1,8 billion euro for 106 km double track line also doesn't come cheap. Although we must bear in mind that in the middle of that financial crisis erupted complicating things a bit.


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## ICExpress

The end of the old Tithorea-Lianokladi line has arrived, after 113 years of service. From tommorow, all passenger and freight trains will be using the new line. For now there won't be any changes in the timetable, as the time saved will actually reduce the standard ≃ 25-30min delays, but from April, when the 2nd line will be available and electrification will be finished, travel time will be reduced significantly. Despite the planned speed of 160-200 km/h, the actual speed limit for now will be around 100km/h. The stations of Amfikleia, Lilaia and Bralos will be serviced by buses starting from Tithorea. We are expecting some extremely interesting footage tommorow, but for now, a suitable video would be this one. Two eras of the Greek Railways meet, as a GTW Stadler DMU test train, coming from Lianokladi via the new line, meets up with an InterCity train coming from the same station, via the old line.


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## ICExpress

A couple of videos. According to people who have attempted to take photos, the line is quite hard to reach, as it is fenced throughout its length (as every high speed line), and the "accessible" locations are mostly uninteresting. The station of Molos, once it starts operating, will be a decent spot for videos. 











And some photos (from the Greek Amnizia forum - by A.Anastasiadis). As you can see, despite the overall constant upgrades in the buildings and lines, the rolling stock used in the InterCity trains is suffering from vandalism, for over 8 years now...



















Last but not least, some photos from the almost complete renovated station of Lianokladi, a couple of days before the new line's inauguration.



















From a different angle.








Source:http://mixanikosose.blogspot.gr/2018/02/blog-post_50.html


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## ValterPravnik

can someone explain what this new line will replace, why it is necessary and what the benefits will be (Tithorea-Lianokladi)


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## clickgr

ValterPravnik said:


> can someone explain what this new line will replace, why it is necessary and what the benefits will be (Tithorea-Lianokladi)


It will replace the old line for the same section, which is more than 100 years old and has no high speed standards. The benefits are that now trains can reach speeds of 160-200 km/h compared to much lower speeds around 100 km/h in the old line, the new line will be electrified compared to the Diesel engines in the old line and as a result of all these travel times will decrease significantly in country’s most important railway axis that connects the two biggest cities and two biggest economical centers, Athens and Thessaloniki.


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## EduardSA

ICExpress said:


> And some photos (from the Greek Amnizia forum - by A.Anastasiadis). As you can see, despite the overall constant upgrades in the buildings and lines, the rolling stock used in the InterCity trains is suffering from vandalism, for over 8 years now...


Unfortunately, the photos cannot be viewed. Can you re-post them pls?


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## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

Lianokladi -Domokos, progress 12/2/18


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## Chariton

Last trains through the Bralos pass (the old, now out of use Tithorea-Lianokladi line) for the romantics.






video by Dimitris Tertipis


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## tkautzor

Do you know what happened or will happen to the old locomotives stored at Tithorea (6x steam and 8x A.250) and Amfiklia (4x A.150, 7x A.220, A.258, A.304 and A.557)?

Also, are all ICs hauled by electrics between Athens and Tithorea already or still by diesels?


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## timis2

the old line will be completely abandoned?


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## Gusiluz

^^ In this article of yesterday of a Greek newspaper it is reported that on September 8 they will make a demonstration of the train along an already electrified section of the line between Thessaloniki and Athens. Then they will take it back to Italy since until the end of 2018 or the first quarter of 2019, the catenary of the new section that has already finished that line (Tithorea-Lianokladi-Domokos) will not be in service. In other words, it is more publicity than anything else to make it coincide with the railway exhibition that takes place on those days in Thessaloniki.

Source: http://www.voria.gr/article/sti-thessaloniki-erchete-to-asimenio-velos-tis-trenose


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## Aluna_LoveKenya

Ingawa njia maarufu zaidi ya kusafiri nchini Ugiriki ni kwa basi (Ktel), kusafiri kwa treni pia inaweza kuwa rahisi. Fareni za treni nchini Greece pia ni za gharama kubwa kuliko tiketi za basi. Kituo cha treni kuu huko Athens ni kituo cha Larissis, wakati huko Thessaloniki kituo hicho iko kwenye Monastiriou Avenue, karibu na dakika 15 kutoka Aristotle Square. Taarifa kuhusu viungo vya ndani na kimataifa lakini pia habari kuhusu treni za kimazingira nchini Ugiriki. Viungo vya Kimataifa vya Reli Katika siku za nyuma, kulikuwa na treni za kimataifa zinazounganisha Ugiriki hadi Bulgaria, Romania, Ujerumani na Istanbul lakini siku hizi treni hizi zimeacha kufanya kazi. Mafunzo ya Ndani ya Ndani Mfumo wa reli ya Kigiriki unatumiwa na OSE, shirika la treni la Kigiriki. Njia kuu kuu za reli nchini Ugiriki ni: Athens-Thessaloniki, Athens-Patra (iliyohudumiwa na Treni ya Proastiakos mpaka Kiato), Athens / Thessaloniki-Alexandroupoli (Dikaia), Athens / Thessaloniki-Florina na Athens / Thessaloniki-Kalambaka. Katika kipindi cha miaka iliyopita, kuna jitihada kubwa za kurekebisha mfumo wa reli na kufanya Ugiriki ufundishe kasi. Kumbuka kuwa katika njia Athens-Thessaloniki, kuna Treni ya Intercity ambayo inashughulikia njia katika masaa 4, wakati treni ya kawaida inahitaji saa 6.


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## eu01

Swahili? Cool!  Actually, Google seems to translate it pretty well.


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## Almopos

*Train ETR 485 on its way from Italy to Greece through Croatia*


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## DG89

The train(ETR485 no31) will start the test routes on Tuesday September 4th


















In total, it will carry out 14 test routes on the Thessaloniki - Katerini route, checking and recording the state of the railway network.

The ETR485 will remain in Thessaloniki throughout the Thessaloniki International Fair and will depart for Italy on September 19th.

The train is in a guarded and sheltered area and is not allowed to reach anyone. The train will be spotted and photographed by the accredited journalists and photographers who will have the relevant invitation on the day of the train's presentation at Thessaloniki's passenger terminal on 8 September.

Thessaloniki station this afternoon






Source - http://sidirodromikanea.blogspot.com/2018/08/blog-post_930.html


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## nsnikolov

https://www.ypodomes.com/index.php/...etion-of-greece-s-main-railway-corridor-draft


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## arctic_carlos

^^ How will the new railway line finally reach Patra? Surface alignment using the existing metric gauge corridor?

Thanks.


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## DG89

"Silver Arrow" at the first test route on Greek railway network















Shortly after six o'clock in the morning, "Silver Arrow" train left the railway station of Thessaloniki for the first test run, in order to certify its functionality on the railway network of Greece.




























Source: http://sidirodromikanea.blogspot.com/2018/09/1.html


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## nsnikolov

In some websites I read that the infrastructure between Kiato and Rododafni will be ready by the end of the year as well as the railway line from Thessaloniki to Macedonian border 

In the website of TrainOSE is written that the Lianokladi - Domokos section will be finally ready by the 1-st of November and the distance between Athens and Thessaloniki will be covered for 4 hours:banana: This will be until the ECTS security systems are completed next summer.
So probably there will be some changes in the timetables soon!


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## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

"Macedonia" γράφει ο άλλος, ε ρε σε τι ανυποληψία μας έχουν φέρει αυτοί οι εθνομηδενιστές πολιτικοί.


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## Baron Hirsch

As of a few days ago, official speeds on the Thessaloniki-Athens leg have increased by about 15 minutes. Not much, really, but hopefully soon to come. 
As for the rail link to Republic of Macedonia (soon to be Northern Macedonia), was there ever anything wrong with that line or is it just disinterest by OSE that they are not operating to Gevgelija?


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## ICExpress

A couple of videos from the ETR 485 presentation, the train achieved a max speed of 213 km/h between Thessaloniki and Katerini during the test journey. The ETR will be transported back to Italy in September 19th, and afterwards we will see if the ETR 485 or 470 will be used eventually in Greece. Also, the Tithorea-Lianokladi section now has both electrified lines in usage, a big step towards reducing travel time. Despite the upcoming completion of the Lianokladi-Domokos section, the travel time reduction could be blocked by TRAINOSE until the new rolling stock is delivered, or the time could be just reduced slightly (e.g 4h30 for InterCity services) to reserve the 4 hours and less for the "premium" services (Pendolino ones).


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## Baron Hirsch

ICExpress said:


> Also, a few updates on the last remaining section of the Thessaloniki-Athens line, the Lianokladi-Domokos part. Trains are running in the regular old line for now but it appears that traffic will be diverted in the new line soon, as there is a point where the two lines cross eachother, and the old one will have to be disconnected. The track has been fully laid from Lianokladi to Aggeiai (a station located in the middle of the section) and there are electrification works currently going on, starting from Aggeiai. There is no significant progress on the Aggeiai-Domokos section yet due to some issues on the Ekkara bridge, which is located on a seismic fault and requires extra attention. Circulation will probably be diverted to the new line from Lianokladi to Aggeiai in October/November and from there trains will remain on the old single track to Domokos. The Aggeiai to Domokos section's completion is uncertain, as aside from the bridge, the electrification works are being done a lot slower as well. Based on recent estimations, the entire section might be finished until December, but it could also take longer than that.


I can confirm this: the southern section has shifted to new tracks, disconnecting the old. The train goes at greatly reduced speed compared to the fully operational line south of there, but much faster than on the climb from Domokos up (couldn't swear its Aggeiai, but definitely somewhere south of the ridge). From Domokos upwards, one has a good view of the works. Bridge work is still ongoing and no electric lines all the way into Domokos Station. Nonetheless, everyone who has not seen the classic route has just a few months to see this beautiful section one last time.
Down south: Kiato to Aigio looks like there getting there. most tracks laid, except the last stretch into Kiato Station. Stuffing of tracks was going on when I passed. No sign of electricity, signals. Could be operational by December 2019 if you ask me, and all goes well. West of there, nothing much to show off yet. Possibly some tunnels....


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## nsnikolov

It is great that the Kiato-Aigio section will be finished soon! I wonder if there will be some electric/diesel IC trains Athens-Aigio or the suburban ones will be extended from Kiato to Aigio:hmm:


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## DG89

*Kiato - Aigio railway section in Northern Peloponnese to operate in 2019*










The projects that will put the train back "on track" to Aigio are now in full progress. According to ypodomes.com's secure information, what remains to be done is superstructure works (i.e. track laying works), which are expected to be completed by November, putting the projects' "final touches" concerning both stations' and railway lines' construction works.

More specifically, track laying works have already begun from Aigio and have been divided to different segments. The last pending section is the one reaching Kiato Station, where the new line will fit with the existing one and, consequently, with the rest of the country's railway network.

Then, in order for the new double-track, high speed railway line to be released to commercial operation, trial itineraries will be carried out for the verification of the new infrastructure's safety and functionality as well as the proper operation of the signaling systems and the stations' ability to accommodate passengers.

According to the same sources, the launch of the new line is scheduled for the end of the Winter ( or early Spring) 2019. It is noteworthy that TRAINOSE in order to "prepare" the passengers for the delivery of Aigio Station, has added a new stop in its intercity bus service. With the operation of the new line, the bus line will be operating between Patra and Aigio.

It is reminded that the operation of the new line has been significantly delayed (it remained closed for a decade), compared to the original schedule, with one of the main reasons being the time-consuming expropriations. The project has a budget of 270m euros and the contractor of this "sweep" contact is J/V Mitilineos - Ksanthakis - Thales. The total cost for the line's upgrade is estimated to exceed half a billion euros.

The electrification of the line will follow, with a separate contract, for which a relevant tender is at an advanced stage. AKTOR has been declared as a temporary contractor for the project that will complete the line. Its duration set at 30 months, so, provided that construction works start in 2019 then, they are expected to be completed in 2021.

The new double-track railway line

When fully completed, the new line will allow electric trains to reach Aigio at speeds as high as 200 km/h, and in a much more cost efficient and environmentally friendly way.

The new Kiato - Rododafni railway section will be 71 km long, will have 3 railway stations ( in Ksylokastro, Akrata and Aigio) and 6 stops (Diminio, Lykoporia, Lyghia Derveniou, Platanos, Diakopto and Elliki). The speed in Kiato -Lykoporia section will be up to 200 km/h and in Lykoporia - Rododafni section, 150 km/h. The new section will be featuring 6 tunnels with a total length of 5.5 km, 8 escape tunnels with a total length of 2.1 km, 13 cut & cover works with a total length of 1,710 meters, 18 railway bridges and 60 unlevel crossings.

The new double-track Kiato - Rododafni railway line is fenced and unleveled in its entirety, enhancing safety for pedestrians, animals, vehicles, trains and passengers. Projects have been funded by the 3rd CSF, NSRF 2007-2013 as well as the current NSRF 2014-2020.

Nikos Karagiannis-ypodomes.com

Source: https://www.ypodomes.com/index.php/special-editions/news-in-english/item/49599-kiato-eghio-railway-section-in-northern-peloponnese-to-operate-in-2019


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## Baron Hirsch

Thanks, good to know. It seems incredible that the line will start operations without electricity, which also adds to the question how operation will happen in these first years: diesel through trains from Athens? Electric trains from Athens, then diesel trains to Aigio, then bus? Sounds not attractive.


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## nsnikolov

Baron Hirsch said:


> Thanks, good to know. It seems incredible that the line will start operations without electricity, which also adds to the question how operation will happen in these first years: diesel through trains from Athens? Electric trains from Athens, then diesel trains to Aigio, then bus? Sounds not attractive.


In my opinion there is not much difference for the passengers whether there will be a change of the locomotives in Kiato or the whole line from Athens will be operated by diesel trains.
But I'm sure that a direct train from Athens to Aigio will be a lot faster than the current suburban train+bus


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## rrustema

*KTEL and train stations?*

And what will KTEL do? Will there be buses going to the train stations? What good are all these new stations if you have to get a taxi or ask someone to bring you to the station?

Same goes for Athens. Is the KTEL bus station still totally disconnected from other public transport? I remember endless lines of yellow taxis. 

There should be a law forcing KTEL to connect to all public transport hubs.


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## Richard_P

A feasibility study of line into Albania was announced:


IRJ said:


> The CB Railway project involves constructing a 130km line from the existing Greek railhead at Florina to the Albanian city of Pogradec on the southern shore of Lake Ohrid.


Source (click)


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## nsnikolov

ERGOSE: *End of February in full operation line Lianokladi - Domokos.*
https://www.insider.gr/eidiseis/ell...-pliri-leitoyrgia-i-grammi-lianokladi-domokos

In the traffic was given the section from the new train station of Lianokladi until the 31 km long railway station of the Argives, of the new, modern railway line "Tithorea - Domokos"
According to the ERGOSE administration, with the delivery of this department, the project enters the final phase of its completion. The section that came into use is undergoing major new technical projects, including 10 railway bridges and the new twin tunnel of Othryos, seven kilometers long, which ends at the Xyniadas plain.

In addition, all the required work and trials for the traffic and the rest of the new 21-km long, 21-km long, fully interoperable railway line have been planned and implemented, from the Angos Railway Station to the Domokos Rail Station. In this section, the train will pass through the new arched - metallic and seismically insulated railway bridge C26 which is located in the area of.

More specifically:

• Until 20/1/2019, the necessary test loads will have to be carried out on the bridge of Kakaras.
• On 24/1/2019, the whole new doubled line will be completed in the Angios-Domokos section and will be circulated for jet-powered trains.
• By the end of February 2019, the whole Lianokladi-Domokos line will be launched, powered by the whole.

With these projects, ERGOSE "completes the railway emblem of the construction of the new railway line of the main railway axis of the country" Piraeus - Athens - Thessaloniki "with a modern, fully interoperable double electrified line".


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## rrustema

Will there be a bus connection with Patras? By KTEL or by Trainose? A bus connection with Killini perhaps?


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## Chariton

rrustema said:


> Will there be a bus connection with Patras? By KTEL or by Trainose? A bus connection with Killini perhaps?


There is already a bus connection with Patras by Trainose. Killini is only connected with local buses (KTEL).


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## eu01

This week I have visited Platamon(as), a town located in the foothills of mountain Olympus in Central Macedonia. Until the end of last century all trains from Thessaloniki to Athens did circulate through this city. Thanks to a new main line trains were shifted further away, partially in a new tunnel under the town and its castle. The old line, now dysfunctional, has been declared a historical site. The tracks and other infrastructure are still largely preserved. Walking along these tracks I admired the beauty of surrounding area and couldn't resist sharing the idea of the rehabilitation of this line as a modern tram line from Nei Pori via Platamonas to Leptokarya as a big tourist attraction and a means for the improvement of local passenger transport. Here are some shots showing the status as of this week, enjoy!


----------



## ICExpress

The old Platamonas line is connected to the new mainline in Neoi Poroi, I assume that a local tourist train would be possible in the summer months. The main issue is that despite several suggestions, OSE hasn't done anything to reactivate the small remaining part of the line (as the other part after the tunnel has been turned into a bar, as seen in the photos), and the residents of Platamonas want the line gone and the station turned into a parking lot. Generally OSE isn't interested in heritage rolling stock / railway lines, except the already active ones in Pelion and Kalavrita.

Some news on the Thessaloniki-Athens mainline: The last remaining section (Lianokladi-Domokos) has been completed and the overhead lines will be activated today. An HellasSprinter-hauled test train will be conducting tests in Tuesday, being the first train to ever travel in the Thessaloniki-Athens mainline without switching locomotives. The new express services will be announced in early May, while all the Thessaloniki-Athens services (both passenger and cargo) will gradually be converted into electric-hauled ones.


----------



## Bart_LCY

Kiato - Aigo ( Κιάτο - Αίγιο ) new railway cab ride, from Διονύσης Πατεράκης YouTube channel:

1. Kiato - Xylokastro:






2. Xylokastro - Akrata:






3. Akrata - Aigo:


----------



## ICExpress

At long last the *Thessaloniki-Athens express service* is scheduled to start. Journey times:

*InterCityExpress*: Thessaloniki-Athens 3h57min (opposed to 5h20 today)
Athens-Thessaloniki 4h10 min (opposed to 5h28 today)

*InterCity*: Thessaloniki-Athens 4h09min
Athens-Thessaloniki 4h23min

The new timetable will be active from the following Monday (20/5/2019). Renovated OSE passenger coaches and HellasSprinter locomotives will be used for the Express services until the Italian Pendolino trains take over (possibly in September).


----------



## Sunfuns

At long last indeed. I was expecting even lower travel time, though. Also is there any particular reason why travel in both directions is not equally long?


----------



## davide84

The introduction of tilting trains usually provides additional time savings, provided that the line is certified for tilting. I hope this is the case...


----------



## DG89

Travel time will reduce further when ETCS Level 1 and signaling will be enabled at the end of the year. 

Then, the max speed will be 200km/h and the travel time between Athens and Thessaloniki will be covered at around 3.15 hours. Now it takes 5.30 - 6 hours, so it will be a huge difference.


----------



## Uppsala

How does the international connections with passenger trains from Greece and north towards Serbia work, and further north?

Previously, these have been good with trains like Hellas-express who went from Athens to Budapest as an example.


----------



## Baron Hirsch

Poorly. Hellas Express has been reduced to a summer only service from Belgrade-Topcider Station to Gevgelja (N. Macedonian border post) with bussing from there into Thessaloniki. Out of the summer season, there is nothing. N. Macedonian Railways sent a memorandum for improving cross-border services some time ago, but to my knowledge there was no reply from TrainOSE. They are very much concentrated on improving services on the domestic main lines for the moment and do not seem to care about the minor lines, let alone international passenger traffic.


----------



## Uppsala

Baron Hirsch said:


> Poorly. Hellas Express has been reduced to a summer only service from Belgrade-Topcider Station to Gevgelja (N. Macedonian border post) with bussing from there into Thessaloniki. Out of the summer season, there is nothing. N. Macedonian Railways sent a memorandum for improving cross-border services some time ago, but to my knowledge there was no reply from TrainOSE. They are very much concentrated on improving services on the domestic main lines for the moment and do not seem to care about the minor lines, let alone international passenger traffic.



Are there political reasons? That Greece still doesn't want any relationship with N. Macedonia (former FYROM) to do?

It is extremely bad that the railways in Greece close the border for passenger trains. They could at least have a local train from Thessaloniki to Skopje?

This is sad!


----------



## davide84

This is unfortunately not uncommon. Italian FS did the same in the past two decades, when international services were let to die or were taken over by neighboring operators. At some point the EC services to Austria and Germany almost disappeared - luckily now they're back and are planned to slowly grow. Connections to France and Slovenia are still quite poor.
To a certain extent it has some logic, although in the long term it's really sad.


----------



## da_scotty

ICExpress said:


> At long last the *Thessaloniki-Athens express service* is scheduled to start. Journey times:
> 
> *InterCityExpress*: Thessaloniki-Athens 3h57min (opposed to 5h20 today)
> Athens-Thessaloniki 4h10 min (opposed to 5h28 today)
> 
> *InterCity*: Thessaloniki-Athens 4h09min
> Athens-Thessaloniki 4h23min
> 
> The new timetable will be active from the following Monday (20/5/2019). Renovated OSE passenger coaches and HellasSprinter locomotives will be used for the Express services until the Italian Pendolino trains take over (possibly in September).


How many services daily (and Athens-Thessaloniki local trains)?


----------



## MarcVD

Uppsala said:


> Are there political reasons? That Greece still doesn't want any relationship with N. Macedonia (former FYROM) to do?
> 
> It is extremely bad that the railways in Greece close the border for passenger trains. They could at least have a local train from Thessaloniki to Skopje?
> 
> This is sad!


It is not political : the situation is the same with the link to Bulgaria (Sofia). The train from Sofia stops at the border. An to Turkey, there is nothing anymore either.


----------



## bruno amsterdamski

nsnikolov said:


> The construction of the railway lines in Kiato-Aegio was completed (...)
> 
> Besides, the operation of the new dual line will be electrified as the competition is underway and it will take 24 months from the signing of the contract for completion and commissioning.


Are there any plans to use the line for regular passenger traffic before electrification?


----------



## DG89

This is the first Athens-Thessaloniki express train with two stops.
Let's see when the two first Italian pendolinos(ETR 470) will arrive for the express services























source: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Hellenic.Trains/?fref=nf


----------



## da_scotty

What kind of carriages are this? Looks the same as the Israeli Railways stock?


----------



## nsnikolov

bruno amsterdamski said:


> Are there any plans to use the line for regular passenger traffic before electrification?


I thing that from the Autumn there will be passenger trains.


----------



## wbrm

da_scotty said:


> What kind of carriages are this? Looks the same as the Israeli Railways stock?


Siemens. Recognizable by their roof design. ÖBB has them as well.


----------



## davide84

Even when using ETCS a train driver should stop to a red signal and call the operating room. When a line is equipped with more than a signalling system they can not provide different information, and if so the most restrictive signal must be respected. This is the procedure in Italy but I think it's also common sense.

If they are really authorized to constantly ignore red light signals then they could as well turn the entire system off and get more safety... it's really a BAD situation.


----------



## rrustema

sidirodromos said:


> Also, the Kiato to Aigio segment of the Athens-Patras line should open by August, without signalling and electrification, which will come in late 2020-2021.


Did you find any Greek news about the opening of the line soon? Or is the opening postponed?


----------



## rrustema

nsnikolov said:


> Probably this will happen in the summer (if there is no additional delay).


Any news on all the safety tests? I assume summer was too optimistic and it will be later in 2019?


----------



## rrustema

On the platform of Kiato this August I heard from an employee that the opening of the line would be 6 September. Any news about this?


----------



## AndreiB

Any news on further journey time improvements/increase in frequency in the new December timetable?


----------



## fajfer2003

Any news about Pendolinos?


----------



## btrs

fajfer2003 said:


> Any news about Pendolinos?


Indeed, was about to ask the same question..
Next to the Pendolino's, does FS have any intention to transfer more redundant rolling stock to Greece ? I'm thinking of E402B's which already have 25kV capability, along with some UIC-Z coaches which are in better shape than the Greek ones..


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

*New trains in 2022*

(in Greek)



> *Τσαλίδης: Το 2022 η ΤΡΑΙΝΟΣΕ θα φέρει υπερσύγχρονα υβριδικά τρένα στην Ελλάδα*
> 
> https://ypodomes.com/tsalidis-to-2022-i-trainose-tha-ferei-ypesygchrona-yvridika-trena-stin-ellada/


----------



## wbrm

btrs said:


> Indeed, was about to ask the same question..
> Next to the Pendolino's, does FS have any intention to transfer more redundant rolling stock to Greece ? I'm thinking of E402B's which already have 25kV capability...


I thought the E402's had their 25kV pantographs removed? Or was that only E403? Are those locomotives today still seen as multisystem in practice (capable of running on 25kV without adjustments)? They seem to be used as DC's AFAIK.


----------



## btrs

wbrm said:


> I thought the E402's had their 25kV pantographs removed? Or was that only E403? Are those locomotives today still seen as multisystem in practice (capable of running on 25kV without adjustments)? They seem to be used as DC's AFAIK.


Yes, that were the E403's which were transferred to IC & Night train services (and some repainted in IC Sun livery). 

The E402B that were adapted for operation in France (numbers 139-158) had 3 pantographs: 1 for French 1.5kV, 1 for French 25kV and 1 for Italian 3kV.
Pictures of the raised French 25kV pantograph here:
http://www.forum-duegieditrice.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=63068

The 2 pantographs for the French systems were removed from 2010 onwards after the fitting of SCMT (interim system between RS Codici and ETCS L1) to these locos, which needed a new homologation for the French network.

Still, the E402B should be able to run under 25kV with its current pantographs (in Italy at least). Possibly another contact strip (wider or different material) may have to be fitted for operation in other countries.


----------



## rrustema

rrustema said:


> On the platform of Kiato this August I heard from an employee that the opening of the line would be 6 September. Any news about this?


When I ask https://tickets.trainose.gr/ for the route Athens - Patra the bus section is still from Kiato, not Rododafni:

1308 (SUB)	Athens	Kiato	17/12 09:36	17/12 10:55
Λ10Ε (BUS)	Kiato	Patra	17/12 12:05	17/12 13:30

I can assume that there are still no trains running after Kiato? Nothing in the news about it? About the reasons why not, for example?


----------



## Jacky93

Still no news on Kiato-Aigio-Rododafni rail opening?


----------



## Sallonian

What is of more importance is how the railway will enter Patras. Kiato-Aigio-Rododafni will be operational sooner or later.


----------



## nsnikolov

PRESS RELEASE – NEW HIGH-SPEED RAILWAY DOUBLE-TRACK LINE BETWEEN KORINTHOS – PATRAS, RAILWAY SUPERSTRUCTURE KIATO – AIGIO (RODODAFNI)
http://https://www.ergose.gr/deltio-typoy-nea-dipli-sidirodromiki-grammi-ypsilon-tachytiton-korinthos-patra-epidomi-grammis-tmima-kiato-aigio-rododafni/
Google translates it like this:
PRESS RELEASE - NEW DOUBLE RAILWAY HIGH-SPEED CORINTH LINE - PATRA, LINE EMPLOYMENT, SECTION KIATO - AEGIO (RODODAFNI)
Completed and delivered for use by ERGOSE to OSE, the Section of the New Corinth - Patras High Speed ​​Railway from the exit of Kiato Station to Aigio (Rododafni).

Specifically delivered is the 140km (Double Line, 70km each) All-in-One Bonnet, designed for train speeds of up to 200km / h, featuring a modern ETCS 1-way two-way safety signaling system and serving newly built ones. three Xylokastro, Akrata and Aigio Train Stations and the six Dimini, Lykoporia, Lygias, Platanos, Diakopto and Elikis Stations.

The process of delivering to OSE by the ERGOSE of the aforementioned Stations and Stations and other electromechanical projects along the Line is ongoing, with the completion of the Televised Signaling and the execution of tests with trains equipped with ETCS security system. Complete Project to Release (Estimated Time, April 2020).


----------



## rrustema

nsnikolov said:


> The process of delivering to OSE by the ERGOSE of the aforementioned Stations and Stations and other electromechanical projects along the Line is ongoing, with the completion of the Televised Signaling and the execution of tests with trains equipped with ETCS security system. Complete Project to Release (Estimated Time, April 2020).


Yeah, thank you! Finally news. It sounds like in the summer of 2020 we can expect a train connection replacing the bus service. I assume the bus service will then shuttle between Patras and Aigio (Rododafni) for the next few years. But that is in the hands of OSE, not ERGOSE. 

Or could the local Patras rail services "Proastiakos of Patras" be extended to Rododafni? There are still some old tracks lying around...


----------



## Uppsala

What will happen to passenger traffic from Greece and across the NMK-border to Gevgelija and on to Skopje? Greece would need at least traffic to be reopened from Thessaloniki to Skopje, and preferably even further to Belgrade.


----------



## Ghostpoet

I am not following the Greek railway subjects thoroughly, so I am sorry if those questions were already answered. 
- Which sections of the Athens - Thessaloniki line are replaced by the new double track alignments? Also, are all of those new alignments in use?
- Are Athens - Thessaloniki services running normally, or are substituted by buses?
- Are there any international service Skopje - Thessaloniki running in spring?

Thank you very much and regards
Ghostpoet


----------



## nsnikolov

For the timetable in Greece use trainose.gr( where you can also buy tickets with discount if booked in advance) and yes the whole line to Athens is double. Unfortunately the international train to Skopje and Beograd runs only in summer.


----------



## MarcVD

nsnikolov said:


> Unfortunately the international train to Skopje and Beograd runs only in summer.


Not only that but as far as I know, it's still a bus between the border stations and Thessaloniki, even in summer.
The only train that is not busstituted is the weekly (I think) summer train from Bucharest. I was very fortunate to be able to do Sofia-Thessaloniki by train in 2016.


----------



## nsnikolov

Yes, it seems like trainose does not care at all about international connections. It's the same in Bulgaria...


----------



## Manos-GR

Old railway line Thessaloniki-Athens - Platamonas section


----------



## Manos-GR

existing railway line Thessaloniki-Turkey (section Adriani - Drama)


----------



## Manos-GR

Line Athens-Thessaloniki / Oinofyta station


----------



## Manos-GR

Eidomeni station (Border GR-NMK)


----------



## Poorna90

The Pelion Steam Train, A Mythical Train Journey in the Greece.


----------



## nsnikolov

Προς παράδοση στην κυκλοφορία η γραμμή Κιάτο - Αίγιο

The Kiato-Aigio railway line will probably soon be tested and after that trains will start using it. This should have happened in the end of March, but the workers from Spain can't travel now.


----------



## rrustema

Now what do I find here about Patras-Athens?









Αθήνα - Πάτρα με το τρένο σε μόλις 1 ώρα και 40 λεπτά! - NewsAuto.gr


Ο εκτιμώμενος προϋπολογισμός δημοπράτησης του έργου της υπερταχείας είναι περίπου 514 εκατομμύρια, συμπεριλαμβανομένου του ΦΠΑ.




www.newsauto.gr





Karamanlis presented a plan for the last part of the railway line to Patras?


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

^^


----------



## kokomo

I remember taking the train from Patras to Athens in the late 90's as a backpacker. What an experience it was!!! Has it been electrified?


----------



## AθΕνΙαΝ

Manos-GR said:


> Line Athens-Thessaloniki / Oinofyta station
> 
> View attachment 60214
> View attachment 60216


This looks like Lianokladi station, not Oinofyta


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

The newly opened line Kiato - Aigio


----------



## VITORIA MAN

220 027, IC Athina - Thessaloniki, Karya by Gunar Kaune, en Flickr


----------



## davide84

According to an italian magazine ("TuttoTreno"), the first ETR 470 is being converted from 3/15 kV to 25 kV. It should be delivered to Trenitalia by the end of the year and then transferred to Greece for testing.
Another trainset should soon arrive to the shops, out of a total of 5 (series numbers 01, 04, 06, 07, 08; numbers 02, 03, 05 and 09 belonged to SBB and were dismantled).


----------



## bruno amsterdamski

Are 5 trainsets enough to serve Athens-Thessaloniki route? Or only some trains will be served by ETR 470?


----------



## davide84

It depends on the intensity of the planned services. Wikipedia says that the final travel time should be around 3 hours, so one departed train won't come back and depart again before 6-7 hours. With 5 trainsets you can probably guarantee a ride every two hours in both directions, being optimistic and excluding maintenance days.

Here it says in 2019 there was a train every 3 hours, so it looks feasible...








Timetable Revealed For New Express Train From Athens To Thessaloniki


The new high-speed train, with passengers travelling from Athens to Thessaloniki in under four hours, is set to take off on Monday, May 20 and we have a list




greekcitytimes.com


----------



## AndreiB

Will the signalling be fully operational by the December timetable change?


----------



## davide84

I don't know, I guess 2021 is more likely.

Speaking of signalling systems in Greece, I found this dating to December 2019:









“Warning, No Signal”


Only 30 km of the whole rail network in Greece has functioning train traffic lights. The installation of new European Train Control System has derailed in the country because of mismanagement – costing tens of millions of public funds and several fatalities.




www.europeandatajournalism.eu


----------



## DG89

Big damage at the Athens - Thessaloniki new line at the aftermath of cyclone "Ianos"



















































Source








Φωτογραφίες από την κατολίσθηση στο χιλιομετρικό σημείο 230


ΦΩΤΟΓΡΑΦΙΕΣ ΑΠΟ ΤΟ ΣΗΜΕΙΟ ΤΗΣ ΚΑΤΟΛΙΣΘΗΣΗΣ




osedriver.blogspot.com






























HELLENIC TRAINS AND RAILWAYS | Facebook


HELLENIC TRAINS AND RAILWAYS / ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΑ ΤΡΑΙΝΑ ΚΑΙ ΣΙΔΗΡΟΔΡΟΜΟΙ Η ΠΑΡΟΥΣΑ ΟΜΑΔΑ ΕΞΕΙΔΙΚΕΥΕΤΑΙ ΚΑΙ ΑΦΟΡΑ, ΑΠΟΚΛΕΙΣΤΙΚΑ & ΜΟΝΟ ΤΟΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟ ΣΙΔΗΡΟΔΡΟΜΟ, ΦΩΤΟΓΡΑΦΙΕΣ, ΒΙΝΤΕΟ, ΣΧΕΔΙΑ, ΙΣΤΟΡΙΚΑ ΚΑΙ...




www.facebook.com


----------



## davide84

It will take weeks to clean up


----------



## 437.001

Thanks for the images.
That was quite some landslide...  Where exactly did it happen?


----------



## Almopos

Baron Hirsch said:


> Poor little train! Pulls into Athens for the first time and sees all those corpses of former trains (just as in Thessaloniki or Piraeus). I am sure it is scared to death and wonders, "How long will I survive in this country where so many of my predecessors are left to rot by the wayside?"
> Jest aside, I hope those trains are those trains really an improvement in travel comfort? I always found Greek IC trains rather comfortable (if one ignores some degree of neglect, especially to the outside color scheme). With a little bit of renovation, I think they could have had a second life. I hope they will be shifted to some other lines to replace older models, rather than just being abandoned by the wayside, like so many trains before....


The old rotting rolling stock in the video should be removed. It's unsightly and I am sure that they could make some money by selling them for scrap.

The refurbished ETR's certainly look comfortable. These pictures from the new interiors were taken some months ago:

First Class









Source

Second Class









Source


----------



## nsnikolov

The current IC carriages, which will be replaced by ERT between Athens and Thessaloniki are *newer* than the Italian train and will noway go for scrap. May be they can be used no some non electrified lines and on future international trains.


----------



## AndreiB

Are they standard UIC carriages? If so I’m sure there is a secondary market for them in Bulgaria/Romania.


----------



## MarcVD

AndreiB said:


> Are they standard UIC carriages? If so I’m sure there is a secondary market for them in Bulgaria/Romania.


Not sure whether they are labeled UIC but I traveled in such a car between Sofia and Thessaloniki in 2015. So they are definitely allowed in Bulgaria.


----------



## kokomo

Is there any regular traffic between Greece and Turkey?


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

kokomo said:


> Is there any regular traffic between Greece and Turkey?


With the current president of Turkey who is using the illegal (and non) immigrants to destabilise Greece the borders will remain closed






Greece is already building a stronger wall


----------



## naruciakk

KONSTANTINOUPOLIS said:


> With the current president of Turkey who is using the illegal (and non) immigrants to destabilise Greece the borders will remain closed


Please keep the trains, I want to go to Istanbul/Constantinople on rails 

And the IC carriages replaced by ETR410 could be really great on international trains.


----------



## LtBk

What are the current rail projects for Greece?


----------



## Baron Hirsch

Dear Kokomo, why do you keep asking the same question, we already answered it on the last page? Do you have memory problems?



Baron Hirsch said:


> But train services between Turkey and Greece have been cancelled ever since after the 2008 financial crisis in Greece, when Greek train services were cut dramatically. The night train Dostluk / Filia from Istanbul to Thessaloniki was good and fairly popular, but apparently TrainOSE has refused to reinstate it, whereas TCDD had an interest in reviving it. Such a waste...


And again, with regard to trains, Konstantinoupolis is wrong. The train Thessaloniki-Istanbul has been suspended since circa 2009, supposedly due to the Greek financial crisis, which led to the suspension of many trains all over the country and all border-crossing trains, some of which were later reintroduced. 

And sorry, Konstantinoupolis: Yes, the Turkish president should be sent to an international criminal court for his countless crimes against humanity. But unfortunately, the new Greek administration is doing much to copy his "success" story: shooting unarmed refugees dead at the border, defying the Geneva convention, illegal pushbacks, the new police law, police brutality against civilians in Athens... I hope it is not too late to save Greece from the development that got Turkey to where it is today.


----------



## M-NL

nsnikolov said:


> The current IC carriages, which will be replaced by ERT between Athens and Thessaloniki are *newer* than the Italian train and will noway go for scrap.


Trains in normal service can last for over 60 years, as long as they are properly maintained and get an overhaul/refurb every 20 years or so.
And because of this trend to try and stuff more and more seats into the same train, older trains are often more spacious and comfortable to ride.
But, regardless of the trains age and especially in Greece, I would call A/C and fixed windows a necessity.


----------



## kokomo

@Baron Hirsch My apologies. I must have overlooked that message, or directly when I entered to this thread the forum put me on this last page without noticing that response. Sorry, not my intention being redundent.



M-NL said:


> Trains in normal service can last for over 60 years, as long as they are properly maintained and get an overhaul/refurb every 20 years or so.
> And because of this trend to try and stuff more and more seats into the same train, older trains are often more spacious and comfortable to ride.
> But, regardless of the trains age and especially in Greece, I would call A/C and fixed windows a necessity.


You should come to Argentina where the original Metropolitan Vickers built in 1916 for the electrification of the broad gauge track between Retiro-Tigre lasted in operations until 2002.









Or, the Brugeoise & Nicoise coaches for the line A of the Metro were operational for almost a century between 1914-2013


----------



## Kolerus

nsnikolov said:


> The current IC carriages, which will be replaced by ERT between Athens and Thessaloniki are *newer* than the Italian train and will noway go for scrap. May be they can be used no some non electrified lines and on future international trains.


Hello, OSe is planning to scratch Siemens wggons from 2000? What they will use to new rail to Patra?


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

@Baron Hirsch calm down man don't be so defensive, i just described in a few words and without be rude how the situation is at the Greco - Turkish borders, full stop.


----------



## Kolerus

del


----------



## btrs

AndreiB said:


> Are they standard UIC carriages? If so I’m sure there is a secondary market for them in Bulgaria/Romania.





MarcVD said:


> Not sure whether they are labeled UIC but I traveled in such a car between Sofia and Thessaloniki in 2015. So they are definitely allowed in Bulgaria.


They are UIC-like yes and RIC-compliant if suitable inverters are fitted (now only suitable for 25kV). They are derived from the Austrian "Modularwagen", a precursor to the Siemens Viaggio Classic cars which eventually spawned the sleeper cars for RZD etc..


----------



## btrs

Baron Hirsch said:


> Poor little train! Pulls into Athens for the first time and sees all those corpses of former trains (just as in Thessaloniki or Piraeus). I am sure it is scared to death and wonders, "How long will I survive in this country where so many of my predecessors are left to rot by the wayside?"
> Jest aside, I hope those trains are those trains really an improvement in travel comfort? I always found Greek IC trains rather comfortable (if one ignores some degree of neglect, especially to the outside color scheme). With a little bit of renovation, I think they could have had a second life. I hope they will be shifted to some other lines to replace older models, rather than just being abandoned by the wayside, like so many trains before....


But isn't this a problem/symptom of _all_ European railways, even Western ones ? Buying new or putting newly refurbished trains in service is easy. It's the continuous maintenance that is hard (and expensive, depending on what maintenance model is used), and therefore often neglected.
I think that if more railways put more effort in keeping their trains in a "fresh"-like appearance, this also influences on travellers. And they might be more likely to take the train more often, even for their leisure trips, whereas otherwise they would take just the train for work and get in the car for the weekend trip..


----------



## Baron Hirsch

I would say there are huge differences between national companies. There are few trains I would find more comfortable and in perfect working order for a long ride than an aging ÖBB Intercity, even though they are several decades old. TrainOSE (and coincidentally CFR and BDZ) often manage to have even rather new Desiro trains in a deplorable state. 
It is not a general problem of "rich Northwestern Europe" versus "poor Southeastern Europe" though. With some exceptions, TCDD Transport keeps its trains in good working order, whereas I find Thalys the most neglected high-speed trains I have seen. DB manages to have both its new and old trains not working. Many of the ICE trains split or hook up with another train set along the way. When hooking up, whether it is an ICE 2 from 1995 or a spanking new ICE 4 model, I hardly ever fail to hear the announcement "Sorry, hooking-up technology not working today" (followed by inevitable delays).
But as I said, TrainOSE IC trains are not that bad. If ever the Patras or Alexandroupoli lines are upgraded enough for new IC services, I hope they will be deployed there (or reintroduction of direct services to Sofia, Skopje).


----------



## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

About trains in Greece, a month ago i posted in another thread the following: 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

As you may know airplanes and ferries are big in Greece,we are talking about dozens of airports and ports all over the country, example:









Greek Airports | GR


Athens: International Airport Athens International Airport Eleftherios Venizelos, commonly initialised as AIA, is the largest international airport in Greece, serving the city of Athens and region of Attica. It began operation on 28 March 2001 (in time for the 2004 Summer Olympics) and is...




www.skyscrapercity.com





The trains was seen by the people as a "2nd choice". Cars/Ferries/Airplanes was the 1st.
Now after the acquisition of OSE (the national railways) by the Italian railways thinks seems to change, there are more investments and the goal of the railways is to "hit" the market of the airplanes.

It will be tough though since now in the market there hydroplanes too. There are 2 companies that are going to operate air services in many places in Greece (even in Rethymno, Crete).

This will be the new metropolitan water aerodrome of Athens:

*Hellenic Seaplanes S.A. - New Metropolitan Water Aerodrome of Athens*




























source: Hellenic Seaplanes S.A.


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## AndreiB

btrs said:


> They are UIC-like yes and RIC-compliant if suitable inverters are fitted (now only suitable for 25kV). They are derived from the Austrian "Modularwagen", a precursor to the Siemens Viaggio Classic cars which eventually spawned the sleeper cars for RZD etc..


Sounds absolutely great. I’m sure CFR would be interested in the lot given the rolling stock shortage there - and all electrification is 25kV too. I hope OSE won’t scrap them - but considers selling them.


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## davide84

Who is the legal owner of those trains - the State or one of the private railway entities...?


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## Kielbus




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## davide84

In all videos the ETR seems to be pretty slow... is that because of infrastructure limitations, or it's just how the testing is done at the beginning?


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## Wallarch

davide84 said:


> Who is the legal owner of those trains - the State or one of the private railway entities...?


The about-to-be-introduced ETR trains: private railway entities. They're either owned by Trenitalia (parent company) and operated by TrainOSE, or owned directly by TrainOSE itself, not sure.

Meanwhile, the older trains are owned, conversely, by the State through OSE, a state-owned company, and leased by TrainOSE.


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## The Wild Boy

Any new footage of ETR 470?
I want to see it at full speed.

Does it actually run all the way up to 250 km/h vmax?

I'm really impressed of Greece, and it has come a long way on it's railway infrastructure and it has drastically improved it.

Sadly my country, and politicians are too mature to realize how big of a difference the railway can make.

I can't wait one day for Budapest - Novi Sad - Belgrade - Nis - Skopje - Gevgelija - Thessaloniki - Athens fast train. Riding at 200 km/h on the corridor 10 would be a pleasure.


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## nsnikolov

The Wild Boy said:


> Any new footage of ETR 470?
> I want to see it at full speed.
> 
> Does it actually run all the way up to 250 km/h vmax?
> 
> I'm really impressed of Greece, and it has come a long way on it's railway infrastructure and it has drastically improved it.
> 
> Sadly my country, and politicians are too mature to realize how big of a difference the railway can make.
> 
> I can't wait one day for Budapest - Novi Sad - Belgrade - Nis - Skopje - Gevgelija - Thessaloniki - Athens fast train. Riding at 200 km/h on the corridor 10 would be a pleasure.


As far as I now the railway from Athens to Thessaloniki is mostly for 160 km/h with some parts for 200 km/h.(not 250) I don't know if these trains will be traveling with more than 160 km/h before ETCS is compleeted...we will see.


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## The Wild Boy

nsnikolov said:


> As far as I now the railway from Athens to Thessaloniki is mostly for 160 km/h with some parts for 200 km/h.(not 250) I don't know if these trains will be traveling with more than 160 km/h before ETCS is compleeted...we will see.


What is ETCS?


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## nsnikolov

The Wild Boy said:


> What is ETCS?


European Train Control System - Wikipedia
The European Train Control System is a security system, which helps trains,to travel save at high speeds. It doesn't allow a train to pass a red signal or to move faster than allowed. The new levels also give the opportunity for more than one train to move one after another in between two stations without the possibility of crashing into each other.
When a train travels with 200 km/h it is easy for the driver to miss a signal and in such case the train "sees" the signal and stops automatically.
Here is a video of using ETCS level 1 in Bulgaria between Septemvri and Svilengrad




At around 5:40 the train passes a red signal and stops on its own.


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## rrustema

bruno amsterdamski said:


> Thanks @ICExpress . You seem to be well informed , so I ask about Athens-Patras. Do you know what travel time is expected after the whole line is ready?


I received this picture recently taken from a rest area along the highway next to the promised line.










No tracks, not even electrification. The maps are showing the future, the railroad is not even there. Usually it is the other way round and maps need to be updated to new railroads. What is going on here? I understand it is not going all the way to Patras, but will Rio be the temporary terminus station until then? A temporary bus service from there to Patras is the least we can expect, no?

On OpenStreetMap the railway line is drawn in until the old trainstation in Rio. I wonder what the situation on the ground looks like. 










From the same source is this street scene in Patras itself. So if there is still rolling stock in Patras, it would make sense to connect these to the terminus. Anyone know where this local train goes?


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## bruno amsterdamski

rrustema said:


> No tracks, not even electrification.


But this is a good news . They already removed old tracks on section Aigio-Rio so the works are ongoing.


rrustema said:


> Anyone know where this local train goes?


There are suburban trains in Patras:
Agios Andreas – Patra – Rio – Patra – Agios Andreas
Agios Andreas – Kaminia – Agios Andreas








Patras Suburban Railway - TrainOSE


From Monday 17.05.2021 TRAINOSE S.A. expands the services offered at Patras Suburban Railway, with new itineraries up to Kato Achaia and by introducing a new multiple-journey daily ticket (24 hours), valid along the whole route. Patras Suburban Railway connects the areas of Agios Vasileios and...




www.trainose.gr






rrustema said:


> So if there is still rolling stock in Patras, it would make sense to connect these to the terminus


What terminus are you talking about, Rio or Neo Limani? But in both cases I think the suburban traffic will be connected/using new Athens-Patras line (with possible suspension period during construction of section Rio-Neo Limani)


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## davide84

Trenitalia is studying the possibility to introduce hydrogen-powered services in northeastern Greece. See slide 13 (last one) of this presentation from april 2021:



http://www.cifi.it/UplDocumenti/Bologna29042021/02Caposciutti.pdf



(CIFI = Italian society of railway engineers)


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## The Wild Boy

Cool, but wouldn't electrifying that region make things better? 

Afterall Electricity > Anything else, right?


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## davide84

Better probably, more convenient... depends on traffic.

The presentation was about the introduction of Hydrogen for italian lines which won't be electrified soon, there is mounting pressure to get rid of diesel.


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## rrustema

bruno amsterdamski said:


> What terminus are you talking about, Rio or Neo Limani? But in both cases I think the suburban traffic will be connected/using new Athens-Patras line (with possible suspension period during construction of section Rio-Neo Limani)


That would be Rio? I am looking for a connection from Patras to Athens/airport without the need of KTEL or a car.


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## bruno amsterdamski

rrustema said:


> That would be Rio? I am looking for a connection from Patras to Athens/airport without the need of KTEL or a car.


As far as I understand the construction process here there will be some time when the line ends in Rio and construction works will be ongoing/planned for section Rio-Neo Limani.


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## Kielbus




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## rrustema

bruno amsterdamski said:


> As far as I understand the construction process here there will be some time when the line ends in Rio and construction works will be ongoing/planned for section Rio-Neo Limani.


Indeed, 5 months ago it was in the Greek news with a map even. 










But it became clear that at least the underground part will take some years. In order to get passengers to Rio (if that will be the temporary terminus) there needs to be some kind of connection. A bus or existing light rail track. There must be some thoughts about it somewhere among those in charge...

Also it is not clear to me where the progress on the line currently ends. Not Rio yet, perhaps only Rododafni?

When you follow the new line using OpenStreetMap it ends in Kouloura, close to Aigio. I expect OpenStreetMap to be accurate because it is updated by volunteers.











also shown on the Wikipedia page with a picture dated 18 May 2019










Worst case scenario: this station remains the terminus, without electrification, without a bus service, for years to come. I would love to be proven wrong, but can't find no evidence.


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## bruno amsterdamski

rrustema said:


> Also it is not clear to me where the progress on the line currently ends. Not Rio yet, perhaps only Rododafni?


My understanding:
Athens-Kiato - done, regular train service
Kiato-Aigio - tracks ready, electrification ongoing, no regular service (at least I could no find them on TrainOSE -, however if I remember correctly there were plans to run diesel trains there )
Aigio-Rio - under construction
Rio - Neo Limani - project works (maybe already tendering, but this I do not know)


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## ABWera

EU Expresses Interest in Albania-Greece Railway


A 30-year project for the construction of a railway line between Albania and the southern neighboring country of Greece seems to be taking concrete steps, as the Official Journal of the European Union published a statement of an open procedure for the implementation of an evaluation of the...




albaniandailynews.com


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## Kielbus




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## Ghostpoet

Pendolino trains already enters revenue operations?

Ghospoet


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## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

There are renders but I don't think they will build the shops and the new roof and all that.


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## Baron Hirsch

KONSTANTINOUPOLIS said:


> ^^ Why you are so upset? If you don't like this thread don't visit it again.


What are you offended by? That I try to dampen Wild Boy's expectations of Greek Railways? Just trying to be realistic here. And I think few people who see SKA and remember that it was built 20 years ago will be happen that Athens still has so little intercity traffic despite all those investments back then and ever since. 
I have had great times in Greece, have many great Greek friends, and do not understand in the slightest why you see my post as offensive. 
If you are so sensitive, then you might reconsider your namesake and motto at the bottom of your posts. Not everyone will find them fun.
Or maybe I just don't get you.


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## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

Baron Hirsch said:


> What are you offended by? That I try to dampen Wild Boy's expectations of Greek Railways? Just trying to be realistic here. And I think few people who see SKA and remember that it was built 20 years ago will be happen that Athens still has so little intercity traffic despite all those investments back then and ever since.
> I have had great times in Greece, have many great Greek friends, and do not understand in the slightest why you see my post as offensive.
> If you are so sensitive, then you might reconsider your namesake and motto at the bottom of your posts. Not everyone will find them fun.
> Or maybe I just don't get you.


I am offended by what? it's just almost in every message you post in this thread you sound upset/angry, in your previous message you wrote this:
_"There is not High Speed Railway in Greece. Get that in your heads (HSR being defined as in excess of 200kmh)."_

For sure you sound upset and rude.


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## bruno amsterdamski

KONSTANTINOUPOLIS said:


> No idea but this is how will be when it's finished


Is the footbridge at the beginning of the movie this one?








OpenStreetMap


OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.




www.openstreetmap.org





And where will be the end of the tunnel? Somewhere here? :








OpenStreetMap


OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.




www.openstreetmap.org


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## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

I think yes to both.


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## The Wild Boy

Baron Hirsch said:


> There is not High Speed Railway in Greece. Get that in your heads (HSR being defined as in excess of 200kmh). There is an InterCity route which in parts is in the process of being upgraded to 200 kmh, including some new, straightened sections.
> Within downtown Athens, the main agenda is to upgrade the existing lines to no longer have level crossingsand allow for slightly higher speeds. The old Athens Station for trains departing to Larissa is being reconstructed as a through station, allowing also for commuter trains to Piraeus, but this is definitely not a new station. Ever since the 2000 Olympics, SKA Station in the outskirts has been in the process of being turned into a central hub between Athens-Thessaloniki trains, Airport to Pelelponnes trains, and local ones. Located on the ring highway, t looks like a piece of Paris railway infrastructure in what otherwise is definitely more one of the countries in Europe with the least train services.


But now Greece has 250 km/h trains and i thought they would go 250 km/h, which could classify as high speed rail? I know that 200 km/h is not high speed railway, and i have said that even many times as well. Maybe in the future they could do 250 km/h, but 200 km/h with those Pendolino trains will still be a good welcomed thing for Greece. 

Also yes, i see now. Good thing that they are going to make a grade separated railway to allow for faster speeds, and increased safety.


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## Kielbus

OpenRailwayMap


OpenRailwayMap - An OpenStreetMap-based project for creating a map of the world's railway infrastructure.




openrailwaymap.org


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## Kielbus




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## Kielbus




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## Kielbus




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## Kielbus




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## Kielbus




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## davide84

The Wild Boy said:


> But now Greece has 250 km/h trains and i thought they would go 250 km/h, which could classify as high speed rail?


On the rolling stock side, they can do 250 km/h, which is the minimum speed classified as HS by the EU - one of the very few official classifications available.

Honestly, when most of the network runs on diesel and without signalling, I would not really care if it is officially classified HS or not, 200 km/h electric EMUs on Athens - Thessaloniki is just freaking good. We can call it AHS (Almost High Speed) to avoid disputes


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## Sallonian

Greece has NO High-Speed Rail. Most researchers take 250 km/h as a clear-cut speed limit to define high-speed rail. Greece has 200 km/h railways, but a lot of sections have 160 km/h or even as low as 120 km/h. This is not what we would call High-Speed Rail and it's not offensive or disturbing at all to simply say that. 

Higher-Speed rail is what we would probably call Athens-Thessaloniki. But Higher-Speed Rail is not a official designation and I don't like that kind of designation. Athens Thessaloniki is a 200 km/h double-track electrified multi-purpose railway. It's not High-Speed at all. 

We have a lot of issues with terms and etymology in Greece. We call every regional, local train as a suburban rail system even it travels as far as 200 km and has a frequency less than a train per hour. We also call the Line 1 of Athens Metro as "electric" and we distinguish it from the other two, although it's just the same thing.


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## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

Sallonian said:


> This is not what we would call High-Speed Rail and it's not offensive or disturbing at all to simply say that.


And who said that it is offensive?


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## Kielbus




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## Kielbus




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## Kielbus




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## Baron Hirsch

Hello people out there! SkyscraperCity is a forum for sharing and discussing development news. It is not a youtube channel of "nice cab rides." Therefore, IF you post a video, you must add a few lines about what is the news contribution of your clip, i.e. the new development one can learn about if watching it. That goes DOUBLE if the video is not in the language the discussion is in, which here is English. Please!
I am not a moderator, but in other subsections, we have among peers discussed this issue and the majority came to the conclusion that SSC is a news sharing and discussion forum and should stay that way, rather than become a TV channel. No offense to the good work some people do here to create or locate such videos, but if that is all, the forum will lose its essential function.


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## AlbertJP

I see the same video was posted in the Greek-language section as well (Σιδηρόδρομοι και Εφοδιαστικές Αλυσίδες | Railways and...), where it did receive positive attention because the readers were able to understand it. In this section it's indeed good to provide an English explanation of what we're looking at.


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## Kielbus




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## Kielbus




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## Kielbus




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## Kielbus

Etr 470: Ξεκίνησε το πρώτο δρομολόγιο εξπρές - Θεσσαλονίκη-Αθήνα σε κάτω από 4 ώρες (vid)


Το τρένο αναχώρησε με 400 επιβάτες, με το δρομολόγιο για την Αθήνα να διαρκεί λιγότερο από 4 ώρες - Οι τιμές των εισιτηρίων




www.voria.gr


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## Kielbus




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## Kielbus

ΤΡΑΙΝΟΣΕ: Nτεμπούτο για το ETR 470 στις ράγες (ΦΩΤΟ-VIDEO) - GRTimes.gr


“Αυτό δεν είναι απλώς ένα νέο τραίνο, είναι ένα νέο πακέτο υπηρεσιών για τον επιβάτη. Ήταν σημαντικό για εμάς να σπάσουμε το φράγμα των 4 ωρών στο δρομολόγιο Θεσσαλονίκης- Αθήνας- Θεσσαλονίκης. Όταν το δίκτυο θα είναι έτοιμο, το ETR 470 είναι τόσο ταχύ τραίνο που θα καλύπτει τη διαδρομή αυτή σε...




www.grtimes.gr


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## Kielbus

Το "βέλος" έφτασε και στη Λάρισα (φωτ. & βίντεο) - larissanet.gr


Στη Λάρισα έφτασε λίγο πριν από τις 10 σήμερα το πρωί το ETR470, προερχόμενο από την Αθήνα. Οι αμαξοστοιχίες ETR470 διαθέτουν εννέα βαγόνια, ένα εκ των




www.larissanet.gr


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## davide84

Staff uniforms seem to come directly from Italy with no changes.

(I guess it is intentional, not lazyness)


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## Kielbus




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## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

AndreiB said:


> Any news on the launch of the express trains? Frequency and speed are way too small after investing a fortune in the direct line.


Launched today, according to the description in the video Athens - Thessaloniki in 3h 20m


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## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

Another one


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## Kielbus




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## AndreiB

Wow those level crossings look so unsafe 😱.


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## KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

^^ Must be in Athens and from the section Sepolia - Treis Gefyres, today's video: 

Undergrounding of Sepolia - Treis Gefyres


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## Kielbus

Construction of an underground quadruple railway line - Intrakat


Construction of an underground quadruple railway line from the Athens Central Railway Station towards the Three Bridges Project’s Owner: ERGOSE S.A.




www.intrakat.gr


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## bruno amsterdamski

Kielbus said:


> ...


Where is it? Thessaloniki?

BTW It does not look like Pendolino brings sth new to the usage of the route. 15 min shorter journey is most probably because of canceling 8 stops for the faster trains. It is a pity


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## davide84

15' for 8 stops means 2' per stop. Of these 2', at least 1' is the actual time spent at the platform, and the remaining minute is the time lost in slowing down/accelerating compared to keep running. This time loss grows when the max speed is increased, the timetable reported makes me think that the new service is not that fast at all and does not run at full speed for a good part of the stretch.
Maybe there are still limitations here and there killing performance.
Would be nice to board it with a GPS tracker and get the speed profile along the route...


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## nsnikolov

All trains travel with 160 km/h now but when ETCS is finished they will start traveling with 200 km/h and the journey time may be shortened. You can see the speed here OpenRailwayMap


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## EAUSERB

What is the situation for the Thessaloniki - Skopje line currently?

I've looked at whether there are trains from Belgrade to Thessaloniki, but there's works in south Serbia and apparently there is also something happening from Skopje to Thessaloniki, so at least 2 parts of the route are not operational.

It would be great if in the future the 470 HSR and Hungarian-Serbian HSR get connected, but we are probably years and years away from that.


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## nsnikolov

EAUSERB said:


> What is the situation for the Thessaloniki - Skopje line currently?
> 
> I've looked at whether there are trains from Belgrade to Thessaloniki, but there's works in south Serbia and apparently there is also something happening from Skopje to Thessaloniki, so at least 2 parts of the route are not operational.
> 
> It would be great if in the future the 470 HSR and Hungarian-Serbian HSR get connected, but we are probably years and years away from that.


Unfortunately there are no international trains to/from Greece now.


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