# DISCUSS: Most Historic City



## wjfox

Please discuss this week's topic here.


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## Giorgio

Athens, Greece.

Any city can have a 150m tall Skyscraper,
One city can have a 150m tall acropolis.....

ATHENA: THE CRADLE OF WESTERN CIVILISATION


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## wjfox

*Athens* - in ancient times, this was the leading cultural and intellectual centre on the planet. Much of "western civilization" has its origins there.

*Rome* - capital of the Roman Empire. Major influence on the development of government, law, military, architecture, and many other aspects of Western life.

*London* - home to some of the most famous Kings and Queens in history, spanning the Saxon, Norman, Mediæval, Tudor, Stuart, Georgian and Victorian periods. The parliamentary model of democratic government was formed there. It was also the centre of the Industrial Revolution, and capital of the largest and most widespread empire in modern history. It survived the Great Fire of London, numerous plagues, invasions, rebellions, and of course the devastating bomb attacks of World War II.


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## Giorgio

when was london founded?


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## wjfox

It was founded by the Romans in about 50 AD.

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_London


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## Giorgio

thank you. :yes:


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## Forza Raalte

How can a city be the MOST historical.

Every city got their history


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## ladolcevita

wjfox2002 said:


> *Athens* - in ancient times, this was the leading cultural and intellectual centre on the planet. Much of "western civilization" has its origins there.
> 
> *Rome* - capital of the Roman Empire. Major influence on the development of government, law, military, architecture, and many other aspects of Western life.
> 
> *London* - home to some of the most famous Kings and Queens in history, spanning the Saxon, Norman, Mediæval, Tudor, Stuart, Georgian and Victorian periods. The parliamentary model of democratic government was formed there. It was also the centre of the Industrial Revolution, and capital of the largest and most widespread empire in modern history. It survived the Great Fire of London, numerous plagues, invasions, rebellions, and of course the devastating bomb attacks of World War II.


Athens in ancient time was the intellectual center on the Planet? :eek2: 
How western-centric, I assume you didn't bother to think of any other civilizations' existence during that time.


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## wjfox

Forza Raalte said:


> How can a city be the MOST historical.
> 
> Every city got their history


Well, obviously some cities are more historical than others.

Think in terms of:

The number of old landmarks, heritage sites and monuments which are preserved in the city.


The amount of influence the city had in the past, in terms of shaping the world.


The number of famous people who lived in the city in the past, e.g. writers, philosophers, emperors, monarchs, artists, musicians, politicians, scientists, inventors, explorers, etc...


The number of famous events that took place in the city's past, and the significance of those events.


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## wjfox

ladolcevita said:


> Athens in ancient time was the intellectual center on the Planet?
> How western-centric, I assume you didn't bother to think of any other civilizations' existence during that time.


Well, Athens was the first place which came to my mind. Feel free to disagree with me.


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## Wu-Gambino

EDIT: Wrong thread.


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## RafflesCity

I love Venice!


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## Phobos

And what about Beijing?
That was a very important city for most of the asian culture I suppose.


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## chymera00

wjfox2002 said:


> Well, Athens was the first place which came to my mind. Feel free to disagree with me.


Cities in China, Egypt, and India were as equally important (even more) as Athens as intellectual centers during their time.


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## Muyangguniang

For Europe Rome
For Asia(east Asia) definetly Beijing


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## JuanPaulo

wjfox2000 if the basis of the discussion is what you have posted them you are leaving out half of the world and only concentrating on Europe and a few cities in Asia and Africa. What about the new world?? 

Th poll should be about whcih city has the most well preserved and comprehensive historic quarter and not about which city has been more influential throughout history.


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## Siopao

maybe Cairo or Giza ... once a home of a great empire 3000 years ago.. and Xian, China-- the same age as Athens


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## Zaki

Cairo, Beijing, Athens all comes to mind.

One that hasnt been mentioned yet is baghdad. Baghdad is located in one of the cradles of civilization, mesoptania. Its been a significant city from ancient times, even contained the world's largest library.


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## Butcher

Rome, Athens, and London for me. Rome and Athens for ancient history, London for more modern history (1600- present)


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## Giorgio

ladolcevita said:


> Athens in ancient time was the intellectual center on the Planet? :eek2:
> How western-centric, I assume you didn't bother to think of any other civilizations' existence during that time.


well then tell me why the other civilisations dont come to mind first? 

Because Athens is the BEGINING of the western world.....were Democracy was started, were Freedom was invented. There is a reason for it coming to mind first you know....


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## prahsharp

Why not the ancient city's on the silk-route? Samarkand, khiva, bukhara ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bukhara


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## Bitxofo

Ancient Egyptian cities like Memphis, the 1st capital on Earth, 6000 years ago!!


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## Dezz

Amsterdam! It has the largest, almost intact, historic centre in the world


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## serendib

*Anuradhapura*

_The number of old landmarks, heritage sites and monuments which are preserved in the city._

*UNESCO WORLD HERITAGE SITE*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anuradhapura

*First Capital City Of Sri Lanka*

*
"Although according to historical records the city was founded in the 5th century BC, the archaeological data put the date as far back as the 10th century BC.*"
-
*"With this began the great building era in which vast monastery complexes and some of the highest buildings in the old world were built. The Jetavanaramaya dagoba of the city is still the highest brick structure in the world.  Large lakes were also constructed by the city's rulers to irrigate paddy lands and also to supply water to the city.*
-
*"Home of the sacred Sri Maha Bodhi tree, the oldest historical tree in the world, at 2300 years."*


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## shayan

For west asia and east europe i would say persepolis This city is the capital of the first civilisation. and it is the capital witch ruled over 90 precent of the known world.


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## Marathoner

For China, I will choose Xian which has more than 3,000 years history, rather than Beijing. And Xian still exists as one of the biggest cities in china. 

I think the creteria should be being a big city both in ancient times & now.

I think there are some in the world beside Xian.


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## Douly

Marseilles (france) 2600 years of history


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## hkskyline

prahsharp said:


> Why not the ancient city's on the silk-route? Samarkand, khiva, bukhara ...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bukhara


Do Bukhara and Samarkand even have their old architecture today? Weren't they destroyed by the Mongol invaders?


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## thoju75

Douly said:


> Marseilles (france) 2600 years of history


Yes it's right !!! Marseille existed before the Roman and its developement was due of its exellent place on the mediterranean See


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## tpe

hkskyline said:


> Do Bukhara and Samarkand even have their old architecture today? Weren't they destroyed by the Mongol invaders?


Bukhara and Samarkand had their glory days during Timur or Tamerlane. He claimed descent from Genghis Khan. The Timurid empire is, in this sense, Mongol.

A lot of the old Timurid architecture remains today. I point you to StormShadow's excellent pictoral thread on Bukhara, Samarkand, and Khiva.


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## tpe

thoju75 said:


> Yes it's right !!! Marseille existed before the Roman and its developement was due of its exellent place on the mediterranean See



The founding of Rome is usually placed in around 700-800 years before Christ.

Marseille can be thought of as a part of Greater Magna Graecia (Magna Graecia normally referring to the Greek colonies of Southern Italy.) Contemporaneous is Etruria, which dominated the great swath of upper Italy and was though to have had some relation as to the founding of Rome (the early Kings of Rome seemingly Etruscan).

Latium and the environs of Rome were inhabited earlier than all this.

So it is not totally correct to say that Marseille existed before the Roman. 'Roman' of course usually refers to the inhabitants of the city founded by the twins.


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## thoju75

Ok you're right I've search and marseille have been founded in -600 by greek's seaman.
and Rome was founded in -753


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## tpe

thoju75 said:


> Ok you're right I've search and marseille have been founded in -600 by greek's seaman.
> and Rome was founded in -753


They were both probably inhabited early on in any case. A hundred years or so does not really mean much. 

The Mediterranean cities all have exceedingly rich histories by all counts.


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## SuperDog

In the Westren Hemisphere it is without a doubt. Mexico City


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## tpe

SuperDog said:


> In the Westren Hemisphere it is without a doubt. Mexico City


Not even Cuzco? 

Of course, Teotihuacan and the Maya cities are really not functioning cities nowadays. Teotihuacan is of course the mother city of all Mesoamerica.


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## kenlau13

...X'ian


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## TO_Joe

I take "historic" to mean the continuously occupied for the longest and has always had some significance, not necessarily the most treasures architectural or otherwise that still remain today. 

*Americas*
Definitely Mexico City.
Central America / Peru had lots of good stuff that can still be seen today, but the people moved away (e.g., Chichen Itza). 
- Not much is left of the settlements of other North American and Brazilian natives, though I know for sure many North American cities are located at trading hubs / gathering places -- e.g., Toronto, Winnipeg.

*Middle East and Africa*
Baghdad for sure.
Istanbul. Many cities on the Anatolian plateau at different times but they have been abandoned (my favourites include the underground cities of Derinkuyu and Kaymakli though I guess they aren't that old by historical standards (sorry for the spelling)).
Jerusalem.
Luxor. I am sure there are other places in Egypt but I would have to cross-map between the ancient and the modern locations to be sure.

*Far East / Central Asia*
Xian
Pyongyang
Kyoto
Probably Yogyakarta.
- In many places in the Far East, when the new administrations take over, they move the seat of power (probably not a bad idea to get rid of the pesky old hangers-on plotting revenge). That's why there are historic sites all over the place but many have become pretty marginalized and dumpy -- e.g., Yangzhou in Jiangsu province used to be very wealthy and powerful but it is an unimportant provincial town that now finds itself to be on the wrong side of the Yangtse River; or Angkor Wat where the jungle has now overgrown it.
- Central Asian cities tend to be more intact (e.g., Samarkand, Kashgar, Lhasa). But I think that is because of the arid and cool continental climate -- you can only build near where the water and food is.

*South Asia*
Mathura, India for sure.
It's actually harder to say than I thought -- because "India" (using the British India definition here) has always consisted of decentralized kingdoms, so the prominence of the cities goes up and down depending on their power. Certainly the Moghul cities like Lahore, Jaipur are like that. Delhi seemed to have attracted wave after wave of civilizations but I think the Moghuls built much of it and created the prominence. Hindu temple towns like Khajuraho and Kanchipuram now stand in the middle of rice paddies. As with Moenjodaro that is now 50 km away from the nearest big town in a dry, dusty northern Sindh in Pakistan.

*Europe*
Athens
Rome -- even then, there was a big dark period when the lights went off (though I think it always retained some prominence)
- I think many of the big towns can trace their history back at least to the Roman era -- including London and Paris.


Actually, the more I think about it, the more I realize that this is a very hard question.

It is a lot easier to answer the question "which major city has the most archaeological treasures today".


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## tpe

TO_Joe said:


> I take "historic" to mean the continuously occupied for the longest and has always had some significance, not necessarily the most treasures architectural or otherwise that still remain today.
> 
> *Americas*
> Definitely Mexico City.
> Central America / Peru had lots of good stuff that can still be seen today, but the people moved away (e.g., Chichen Itza).
> - Not much is left of the settlements of other North American and Brazilian natives, though I know for sure many North American cities are located at trading hubs / gathering places -- e.g., Toronto, Winnipeg.
> 
> *Middle East and Africa*
> Baghdad for sure.
> Istanbul. Many cities on the Anatolian plateau at different times but they have been abandoned (my favourites include the underground cities of Derinkuyu and Kaymakli though I guess they aren't that old by historical standards (sorry for the spelling)).
> Jerusalem.
> Luxor. I am sure there are other places in Egypt but I would have to cross-map between the ancient and the modern locations to be sure.
> 
> *Far East / Central Asia*
> Xian
> Pyongyang
> Kyoto
> Probably Yogyakarta.
> - In many places in the Far East, when the new administrations take over, they move the seat of power (probably not a bad idea to get rid of the pesky old hangers-on plotting revenge). That's why there are historic sites all over the place but many have become pretty marginalized and dumpy -- e.g., Yangzhou in Jiangsu province used to be very wealthy and powerful but it is an unimportant provincial town that now finds itself to be on the wrong side of the Yangtse River; or Angkor Wat where the jungle has now overgrown it.
> - Central Asian cities tend to be more intact (e.g., Samarkand, Kashgar, Lhasa). But I think that is because of the arid and cool continental climate -- you can only build near where the water and food is.
> 
> *South Asia*
> Mathura, India for sure.
> It's actually harder to say than I thought -- because "India" (using the British India definition here) has always consisted of decentralized kingdoms, so the prominence of the cities goes up and down depending on their power. Certainly the Moghul cities like Lahore, Jaipur are like that.  Delhi seemed to have attracted wave after wave of civilizations but I think the Moghuls built much of it and created the prominence. Hindu temple towns like Khajuraho and Kanchipuram now stand in the middle of rice paddies. As with Moenjodaro that is now 50 km away from the nearest big town in a dry, dusty northern Sindh in Pakistan.
> 
> *Europe*
> Athens
> Rome -- even then, there was a big dark period when the lights went off (though I think it always retained some prominence)
> - I think many of the big towns can trace their history back at least to the Roman era -- including London and Paris.
> 
> 
> Actually, the more I think about it, the more I realize that this is a very hard question.
> 
> It is a lot easier to answer the question "which major city has the most archaeological treasures today".


Very nice writeup.

Your comment on Rome got me thinking. A lot of people in this forum do seem to think that Rome became insignificant after the fall of the West Roman Empire. In population, it certainly dwindled up until the 15th century. As for historic importance, I think this is the furthest from the truth.

First, let us not forget that Rome centralized Western Christianity into a form that is now recognized as the Western or Roman usage. Since Christianity was the one remaining link with Late Antiquity, it was, naturally, THE instrument of propagating and maintaining Greco-Roman civilization to the west. The conversions of Britain and Germany into Roman Usage were all done at the instigation of the great Roman Popes of the early Middle Ages.

Second, Rome remained stongly linked to Byzantium during the early part of the Middle Ages. This made it eminently more civilized than the rest of Europe.

Third, the power of the Popes was both political as well as spiritual. The Frankish-Papal alliance on the 8th-9th centuries demostrates this. The long series of Crusades instigated by the agents of Rome throughout Europe is another example. Lastly, in the great conflicts between the Holy Roman Emperors and the Popes, Rome certainly won quite a few matches (witness the brutal execution of Conradin and the extinction of the House of Frederick II).

Fourth, even with the decline of Papal power from the 15th century onward, Rome was still the preeminent city of artistic patronage and creativity. Every English noble of the 18th century headed to Rome as the apogee of his educational upbringing. The numerous collections of antique art in the UK, indeed, the core collection of the British Museum, were collected and exported via Roman agents and Cardinals.

Roman history after 500 AD is richer in significance than the histories of entire European countries. It is absolutely incorrect to say that Rome was a nonentity after that date.


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## LSyd

Jerusalem.

-


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## seattlehawk

.::G!oRgOs::. said:


> well then tell me why the other civilisations dont come to mind first?
> 
> Because Athens is the BEGINING of the western world.....were Democracy was started, were Freedom was invented. There is a reason for it coming to mind first you know....


The reason it comes to mind first is because, unfortunately, our western information media does not teach us much about non-western civilizations. As far as it is concerned, and therefore as far as most of us in the west know, the world begins and ends in the west. The truth is that all civilizations have collectively contributed to the world that we know of today. To think otherwise is a sign of arrogance.


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## ۩SkyScraper۩

Jerusalem Palestine


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## Bitxofo

kenlau13 said:


> ...X'ian


You mean Xi'an (Western Peace).


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## Bitxofo

Douly said:


> Marseilles (france) 2600 years of history


Cádiz (ancient Gadir) is more than 3000 years old, in Spain now.
:wink2:


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## Jakob

My chart:

1) Rome
2) Athens
3) Beijng
4) Istanbul
5) Gizah/Cairo/Theben/Luxor
6) Jerusalem/Bethlehem
7) Samarkand
8) Yucatan Peninsula
9) Jaipur/Lahore
10) Berlin


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## Metropolitan

In the mediterranean area, Massilia (ancient name of Marseilles) was actually a very important Greek colony, and it was certainly bigger than Rome in 400 BC. Unfortunately, in today's Marseilles it doesn't remain much of then.

This being said, Marseilles isn't an isolated case. Greeks had multiple colonies... which were then genuine extension of the Greek civilization. We can think in Sicily about Syracusa, Taormina, Agrigento. I talk about those because I've visited them, and that's really impressive. But there are tons of others. Talking about this, the "most historical" city in Egypt wouldn't be Cairo to me, it would be Alexandria.

However, if this turns out into an age contest, then it will be cities like Jericho or Ur which will win the contest.


Now personally I live in Paris. That city has clearly not a really exceptionnal history, but I'm already satisfied with what it is. After all in Paris, you have the Roman age with the thermae of Cluny and the Arènes de Lutèce, you have the medieval times with mutliple cathedrals (Notre-Dame, Basilique de St-Denis) and medieval districts such as le Marais, you have renaissance times with the Louvre and Versailles, industrial times with the Eiffel tower, the Arc de Triomphe or the Grand Palais, and 21st century times with La Défense. As I've said, that's in no way exceptional, but I'm satisfied with it.


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## JohnnyMass

Lisbon is inhabited since 1200 BC.


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## E -zone ³

Mexico city 
beijing
istambul
athens
rome
cairo
cuzco
with no order.


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## wecky

*Rome, Athens and London for me*

-----


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## serendib

^^^ LONDON ... lol


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## Skyscraperkid2K4

The most historic city is one that has made the biggest mark on the world through out history, as in culture, democracy, landmarks, famous people and landmarks... its not easy to think of one city in the world in my view, impossible.

And yes people may opt to pick western cities but is it their fault in history those cities have 'marked' the world greater than an eastern city? :| 

Athens, Rome and London are the three most historical cities i can think of.
Due to:

Landmarks
Captial of Empires
Famous people
Democracy
Culture
Disasters

I just don't think cities like Beijng and Istanbul reach the mark


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## wjfox

serendib said:


> ^^^ LONDON ... lol


You think London is lacking in history... lol.


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## wjfox

Skyscraperkid2K4 said:


> Due to:
> 
> *Landmarks
> Captial of Empires
> Famous people
> Democracy
> Culture
> Disasters*


Exactly...

And when you examine these things, London comes out very highly.

I defy anyone who thinks otherwise.


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## wjfox

*London*

*Historic landmarks* - Big Ben, Houses of Parliament, Tower Bridge, the Tower of London, St Paul's cathedral, Nelson's column, Westminster Abbey, Roman ruins, countless medieval churches, heritage sites, mansions, palaces, royal parks, etc. etc...

*Captial of Empires* - London was the principal city of the British Empire, the first truly global empire, and the largest and most widespread empire the world has ever seen, which helped to spread the English language around the world.

*Famous people* - The list is endless. Click here to see just a small selection of the monarchs, politicians, writers, scientists, physicists, inventors, explorers, mathematicians, musicians and countless other famous people who've been a part of this amazing city.

*Democracy* - the English Civil War led to the overthrow of the monarchy, and the establishment of the parliamentary model of democratic government. Big Ben and the Houses of Parliament are one of the best symbols of democracy in the world today.

*Culture* - Where do I begin...??

*Disasters* - London is a city that has faced disaster throughout its entire history! Wars, plagues, invasions, rebellions, fires, aerial bombings, riots, terrorist attacks... yet somehow it's managed to survive through them all.


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## El_Greco

I really dont understand those people like serendib."London - lol" mate tell me why do you think so?


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## wjfox

He's either jealous or ignorant, I don't really care to be honest, at least I can appreciate this wonderful city and its amazing history.

I sometimes wonder why I even bother coming to this forum when there is such blatant ignorance and disregard for the facts everywhere you go.


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## BinALAin

easy Question the answer

Baghdad and Jerusalem Palestine


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## Metropolist

cairo, istanbul, athens, rome were the most impressive imo.
some cities in india and china are historically great.


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## Hebrewtext

Jerusalem Israel


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## vc15nets

Makkah, Saudi Arabia
Jerusalem, Palestine
London, United Kingdom
Rome, Italy
Istanbul, Turkey
Cairo, Egypt
Athens, Greece


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## Gilgamesh

Jerusalem, Israel
Shiraz, Iran


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## wjfox

Shows what an ignorant dolt you are.


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## Svajoklis

Rome, Athens and Jerusalem all spring to mind. Sorry I can't really contribute more meaningfully than that...


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## kilgarvan

Most historical cities of our world. (Arranged in order) 

1. Athens
2. Rome 
3. Istanbul
4. Jerusalem 
5. Beijing...

The rests can not compare with these cities.


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## Mr Bricks

Paris and London both are very historical and important but not just old enough. There are many cities far older. Check out the middle east, the balkan, egypt, asia and the old indians in s-america.

Bte the oldest city in the world is Dolni Vestonice i the Czech Republic. The city was founded 27 000 a.d.


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## wjfox

2,000 years isn't old enough?

There are Roman remains in London you know.


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## UD2

2000 years is old... but just not old enough....

I am not saying that London is not an important and historical city, but there are others that are far more histrocial than London.

You must realize that urban civialization came much later in the west than it did in the East.

Damascus had two miles of lit streets before London had its walls. The Chinese capital of Chang'an (now Xi'an) had blocks of the most modern urban planning (concepts widely used today) before London had its first cathederal.

London is the core of the industral revolution. It is no doublt that London and Paris played unmatched roles in the course of modern history, but as I said before... the history of man kind didn't began in the year 1867.


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## Mackerel

I also think Xian is appropriate for China. ( not Beijing )

Kyoto had been the capital of Japan about 1000years but newbie...here


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## Manila-X

This is the first time participating in this thread cause I don't care much for historic cities but I choose Xian as the most historical


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## Pax Sinica

Kyoto really preserves a lot of Tang Dynasty's Chang'an city planning, with a smaller scale though. Without Chang'an, the famous Silk Road would never become the world's oldest, busiest and longest trade route. When Chang'an was at its peak, it always represented some of the most expensive goods in the ancient time such as silk, porcelain, jade or tea.

BTW, "Chang'an" means eternal peace and its current name "Xi'an" means western peace. For those don't know Chinese characters, "Beijing" means northern capital, "Nanjing" means southern capital and "Tokyo" means eastern capital.

The site of Chang'an of the Han Dynasty(206 BC–AD 220) was located in northwest of today's Xi'an, Shaanxi. Another site, Chang'an of the Tang Dynasty(618–907), includes the area inside the walls of Xi'an, small parts of eastern, western and major part of southern suburbs of modern Xi'an city. It is 8 times as big as the Xi'an city in the Ming Dynasty(1368–1644), which was reconstructed on the basis of the imperial city of the Sui and Tang Dynasty. Chang'an was one of the largest and the most populous cities in the world.

As the capital of the Western Han Dynasty, it was the political, economic and cultural center of China, the start of the Silk Road, and an cosmopolitan metropolis comparable with the greatest cities of the contemporaneous Roman Empire. It was a consumer city, a city whose existence was not primarily predicated upon manufacturing and trade, but rather boasted such a large population because of its role as the political capital of China.

Xi'an is now listed as one of the Four/Eight Great Ancient Capitals(Xi'an, Nanjing, Beijing, Luoyang/Kaifeng, Hangzhou, Anyang and Zhengzhou) of China because it has been the capital of 13 dynasties such as Zhou, Qin, Han, and Tang.


*Some of the most important events in this eternal peaceful city....*

*11th century BC-770 BC*: Zhou Dynasty established its capital in Feng and Hao, both located west of contemporary Xi'an.
*221 BC-206 BC*: Qin Dynasty constructed its capital in Xianyang, on the north shore of Wei River. It was burned by Xiang Yu at the end of the dynasty.
*202 BC*: Liu Bang, the founding emperor of the Han Dynasty, established Chang'an County as his capital; his first palace Changle Palace was built across the river from the ruin of the Qin capital. This is traditionally regarded as the founding date of Chang'an and Xi'an.
*200 BC*: Emperor Liu Bang built Weiyang Palace in Chang'an.
*194 BC*: Construction of the first city wall of Chang'an began, which did not finished until 190 BC. The wall measured 25.7 km in length, 12-16 m in thickness at the base. The area within the wall was ca. 36 km².
*582*: Emperor of Sui Dynasty ordered a new capital to be built southeast of the Han capital, called Daxing. It consisted of three sections: the Palace, the Imperial City, and the civilian section. The total area within the wall was 84 km², The main street Zhuque Avenue measured 155 m in width. It was the largest city in the world. The city was renamed Chang'an in Tang Dynasty.
*7th century*: Buddhist monk Xuan Zang, well-known as Tang Sanzang in China, established a sizeable translation centre after returning from India with Sanskrit scriptures. 
*701*: Construction of Da Yan Pagoda. It measured 64 m in height. This pagoda was constructed for the storage of the translation of the Buddha Sutra obtained from India by the monk Xuan Zang.
*707*: Construction of Xiao Yan Pagoda began. It measured 45 m in height. After the earthquake of 1556 AD, its height was reduced to 43.4 m.
*904*: The end of Tang Dynasty brought destruction to Chang'an. Residences were forced to move to Luoyang, the new capital. Only a small area continued to be occupied after the destruction.
*1370*: Ming Dynasty built a new wall to protect a much smaller city of 12 km². The wall measures 11.9 km in circumference, 12 m in height, and 15-18 m in thickness at the base.
*1936*: This city was the site of the Xi'an Incident during World War II. The Xi'an Incident brought the Communist Party of China and Kuomintang to a truce so the two forces could concentrate on fighting against Japan.


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## Tiaren

I wonder why Berlin isn't mentioned as often as cities like London, Paris or Amsterdam(a well preserved city center counts nothing!).
For the history in the 20th century Berlin IS definetly the most historic city.

My list for the most historic cities (that still exist) are:

1.The cities: Athens for the western world, Xian for the eastern world
2.Rome
3.Alexandria
4.Beijing
5.London (played much later a roll in history!)
6.Paris (same as London)
7.Berlin (same as London and Paris)
8.Baghdad (great role in ancient times and today...)
9.Jerusalem
10.Istanbul
11.Moscow/ St.Petersburg (they share a place)
12.Lisbon
13.New York
14.Kyoto
15.Boston

Other cities that are very historc and played a great role in world history.
Venice, Florence, Washington DC...


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## LeCom

Jerusalem, Athens, Rome, London, Moscow, Istanbul


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## weird

No order:

Rome, Athens, Alexandria-Cairo, Xi'an-Beijing, Babylon.

London, Paris, Berlin, Tokyo, Moscow, Toledo-Madrid were the centre of big imperiums, but, those cities are more historical.


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## cementationfurnace

SuomiPoika said:


> Bte the oldest city in the world is Dolni Vestonice i the Czech Republic. The city was founded 27 000 a.d.


I don't think you could call it a city. It is the earliest known location for ceramic production (as far as I know), but does that satisfy the requirements (whatever they are) for being a city? Even if it had been a permanent settlement and there had been a few buildings grouped together there, would it qualify as a city?

Anyway, I don't think it's possible to call any one city the MOST historic. I believe that most of the cities which have been mentioned - Rome, Athens, Paris, Xi'an, London, Jerusalem, Teotihuacán etc- have all had significant impacts on history, although some have probably have had larger impacts than others. I think I'll nominate Milton Keynes or possibly Telford for the most 'historic' city.... just because


----------



## grachtengordeldier

Funny to see how nationalistic many people are; English choose London, Persian choose Isfahan etc.
I think the question is very hard to answer, as many people already said. 
Europe is not Asia or pre-columbian America and must of us (myself included) just don't know enough history of the whole world. 
I think Athènes, Rome, Paris, London, Prague, Istanbul, Bagdad, Alexandrie, Thebe (Egypte), Xian (after having read some postst!), Peking...I don't know what all...
And of course AMSTERDAM  
Amsterdam is i bit a joke from me, but it was the first European city between 1600-1750. Well...sort of.


----------



## Insignia

^^ English choose - York.


----------



## alpteKING

I love Istanbul as a historic and modern city. Istanbul is a bridge between two world and it was the capital of three huge empire (Rome, Byzantine and Ottoman). It has a perfect history. But I would like to say Adiyaman. Historically Adiyaman is one of the oldest city in the world.
Adiyaman is one of the oldest settlements in history, dating back to 40 th century B.C. Historical findings indicate that between 7.000 and 3000 B.C. Paleolithic, Neolithic and Chalcolithic Ages reigned in the area. It has been the host of many civilizations, including Hittite, Persian Kommagene, Roman and Byzantine. Founded at its present place, in thie 7 th century by the Ummayyads, Adiyaman later housed several empires and states, including Anatolian Seljuks and finally the Ottomans.
Unesco World Heritage List.
*Mount Nemrut*
The mausoleum of Antiochus I (69–34 B.C.), who reigned over Commagene, a kingdom founded north of Syria and the Euphrates after the breakup of Alexander's empire, is one of the most ambitious constructions of the Hellenistic period. The syncretism of its pantheon, and the lineage of its kings, which can be traced back through two sets of legends, Greek and Persian, is evidence of the dual origin of this kingdom's culture.


----------



## tocoto

Anyone who thinks US cities have no place in history is overlooking the world dominance of the US that began as a rag-tag rebellion in Boston, NYC and Philadelphia. History that is not as old as other cities but just as profound on the modern world.


----------



## im_from_zw038

what about









?


----------



## Mosaic

Rome, Paris, Xian, Kyoto.


----------



## Manila-X

I think the measure of being most historical is not just how old the city is but the no. of significant historical events that happened in this city.


----------



## Mosaic

^^^^What about Cairo, Egypt.^^^. One of the most historical cities on Earth. There are just a few hitorical sites remains until today but as we all know this city is extremely old.


----------



## Manila-X

Cairo can be among the most historical but not the most historical. It's like how about Baghdad?


----------



## harvesterofsorrows

Tenochitlan, Mexico.


----------



## Daniel_Portugal

Top 10

1 - Athens
2 - Bagdad (some stupid americans destroyed it.. but they'll pay for that)
3 - Rome
4 - Lisbon
5 - Cairo 
6 - Beijing
7 - London
8 - Moscow
9 - Madrid
10 - Paris


----------



## _00_deathscar

Paris should be higher than Madrid - if only for it's political importance during that era.


----------



## UrbanQuest

Folks,

How are we defining a historical city? I am not really sure whether we are all on the same page. 
First and foremost one thing I am clear is that we are talking of city that exists as of today

So when we say “historical city” do we mean...


the oldest city
the city’s contribution to world affairs / history
the city’s current popularity
the city’s popularity during it’s peak glory time
the city’s importance in its own country’s history
the number of historical and archeological monuments it had/still has
the city’s influence or rule over large territories (again during it’s peak glory)

Any of the above would be wrong answer, because all cities in the world would fall in atleast one of the categories

All of the above would again be wrong answer, because none of the cities in the world could be considered then.

Unless there is a common parameter to judge, it’s just your city against mine (Not necessarily the city where I am staying)


----------



## persian

UrbanQuest said:


> Folks,
> 
> How are we defining a historical city? I am not really sure whether we are all on the same page.
> First and foremost one thing I am clear is that we are talking of city that exists as of today
> 
> So when we say “historical city” do we mean...
> 
> 
> the oldest city
> the city’s contribution to world affairs / history
> the city’s current popularity
> the city’s popularity during it’s peak glory time
> the city’s importance in its own country’s history
> the number of historical and archeological monuments it had/still has
> the city’s influence or rule over large territories (again during it’s peak glory)
> 
> Any of the above would be wrong answer, because all cities in the world would fall in atleast one of the categories
> 
> All of the above would again be wrong answer, because none of the cities in the world could be considered then.
> 
> Unless there is a common parameter to judge, it’s just your city against mine (Not necessarily the city where I am staying)


true


----------



## Curry4Ever

Chennai, Madurai, Kanchipuram, Varanasi(Benaras), Kolkata, Delhi, Agra, Beijing and some places in europe


----------



## Metropolitan

Daniel_Portugal said:


> Top 10
> 
> 1 - Athens
> 2 - Bagdad (some stupid americans destroyed it.. but they'll pay for that)
> 3 - Rome
> 4 - Lisbon
> 5 - Cairo
> 6 - Beijing
> 7 - London
> 8 - Moscow
> 9 - Madrid
> 10 - Paris


That's a joke right ?

Paris is a lot more historical than Moscow, Madrid, London and Lisbon.

Paris has been founded by the Parisii celtic tribe around the 4th century before Christ and became Roman in 52 BC. We can find a Roman arena (Arènes de Lutèce, 1st Century), Roman Thermae (Thermes de Cluny, 2nd Century), and a former Roman Cardo (Rue Saint-Jacques). Afterwards, we can find buildings from every periods in History in France. The medieval times with its famous churches and monuments such as Saint-Germain-des-Près (6th Century), Saint-Julien-le-Pauvre (10th Century), Notre-Dame-de-Paris (12th Century), Conciergerie (13th century) or the Sainte-Chapelle (13th Century). The Renaissance with the Hôtel de Ville (16th Century) or the Louvre (16th Century) ; The classical period with Palace of Versailles (17th Century), the Invalides (17th Century), the Palais Boubon (18th) where lies today's French National Assembly. The 19th century also with the Arc de Triomphe, the Grand and Petit Palais, the Eiffel Tower, the Opéra Garnier, Haussmann Buildings everywhere. The 20th Century with the Sacré Coeur church, the Pompidou Center, the Bastille Opera, La Défense business district.

Well to put it in a nutshell, Rome or Constantinople have by far a longer History than Paris, but certainly not Moscow, Madrid, Lisbon or London. I mean come on ! When the Abbay of Saint-Germain-des-Prés was built in the 6th Century, London was a no man's land, the area was not even inhabitated !


----------



## wjfox

As has been explained several dozen times on this thread already, a city doesn't have to be "older" to have a "greater" history.


----------



## Metropolitan

wjfox2002 said:


> As has been explained several dozen times on this thread already, a city doesn't have to be "older" to have a "greater" history.


Granted. But Moscow, Madrid, London and Lisbon doesn't have a "greater" History than Paris. Paris has been a lot more influential during a lot longer period than those cities.

Once again, there are numerous cities which are "more Historical" than Paris : Rome and Istanbul are good example, but Xi'an in China is another good one. 
However, I wouldn't count Athens in those, mainly because Athens has considerably lost in influence once Constantinople has been founded. As for Egypt, I would consider Alexandria as the most "Historical" city, not Cairo.


----------



## wjfox

Metropolitan said:


> Paris has been a lot more influential during a lot longer period than those cities.


London was the capital of the *British Empire* - the largest and most widespread empire in history, which at its peak held sway over more than a quarter of the world's population! London was at the centre of the spread of the world's first global language: the English language.


----------



## Krazy

Tough to say between Athens, Rome, Cairo and Damascus


----------



## Metropolitan

wjfox2002 said:


> London was the capital of the *British Empire* - the largest and most widespread empire in history, which at its peak held sway over more than a quarter of the world's population! London was at the centre of the spread of the world's first global language: the English language.


Oh wonderful... so what ?

Paris was the capital of the French Empire and there are hundreds of millions of French speakers in the world. Check a bit your History, London was dominated by the French during a large part of the Middle Age and from the 17th to 19th century the international language was French. Wonderful !

When you want to define the most "historical" city, international influence is only important on the long run. Rome has been the capital city of the Roman Empire, then it became the Capital of the Christian World, then it became the capital of Italy. Throughout its whole History, from 200 BC to 2000 AD, Rome has always been influential. When you walk in the streets of Rome, it's common to see a building from the Ancient Times nearby a building from the Medieval times nearby a building from the 19th century nearby a modern building.

I'm considerably less impressed by the History of London, Moscow, Madrid or Lisbon than by the History of Rome or Constantinople. As for Paris, it's been a lot longer time that it's been an influential center than your beloved London which you see as the current capital of the world if I've understood well your point in the other thread about the 150m tower which may be built in London.
__________________
Le renouveau arrive à la Défense !


----------



## UrbanQuest

There you go...

Its now become a "Your city vs mine" contest...

have fun and enjoy....


----------



## UrbanQuest

By the way folks, have the two of you considered the fact that there exists life beyond London and Paris.

There are cities in existence in India and China even today which probably existed long before even a proper village came up in Europe! And their importance in world history cannot be ignored simply because it didn't happen in the last 400 years...

I don’t believe London or Paris had any importance in world history other than the last 400 years. And interestingly World history is lot older than that!

Finally I don't agree that there can ever be a city 'Most Historical'. Some of the key cities as put up earlier in this thread had a pivotal role to play in shaping world history at some point in time. Maybe 'Historical importance of your city' would have been a better title.

As I said earlier, if you don't have a parameter to measure, you will only have an argument and never a consensus.


----------



## wjfox

If you must know, I actually chose *Rome* when it came to the final voting (go and check the thread in the archive if you don't believe me), I also put *Athens* in 2nd place, plus I acknowledge there are cities in Asia with incredibly long and fascinating histories.

I'm not saying London is #1... but it could certainly be considered a very "historical" city, and I feel the need to defend it on here because there are people who are incredibly ignorant of certain facts, who seem to feel that London is lacking in history somewhat, or that it's somehow a "young" city, or that certain events need to have occured between 4,000 and 8,000 years ago in order for a city to be considered "historical".

Go and read Peter Ackroyd's London: The Biography and you'll appreciate the amazing history of London.


----------



## Metropolitan

UrbanQuest said:


> By the way folks, have the two of you considered the fact that there exists life beyond London and Paris.
> 
> There are cities in existence in India and China even today which probably existed long before even a proper village came up in Europe! And their importance in world history cannot be ignored simply because it didn't happen in the last 400 years...
> 
> I don’t believe London or Paris had any importance in world history other than the last 400 years. And interestingly World history is lot older than that!
> 
> Finally I don't agree that there can ever be a city 'Most Historical'. Some of the key cities as put up earlier in this thread had a pivotal role to play in shaping world history at some point in time. Maybe 'Historical importance of your city' would have been a better title.
> 
> As I said earlier, if you don't have a parameter to measure, you will only have an argument and never a consensus.


That comment is utterly irrelevant. The post I've constantly repeated was that Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Xi'an and many other Asian cities benefits from a far richer History than Madrid, Paris, London, Moscow or Lisbon. True I've said that it was idiotic to rank Paris behind Madrid, London, Moscow and Lisbon, but I've never considered Paris as even close to the cities benefitting from the richest Histories.


----------



## UrbanQuest

Allright... my apologies. Point taken. Nothing personal about that. :cheers1:

And yes, you are right in saying that in terms of a rich histoy, cities like Rome, Alexandria and Athens stand out. 

India too has a rich history and many Indian cities still stand from the BC era. And since India does not have a history of aquiring lands, her history records are not as far spread and known as European history. Not many in the west are even aware of any Indian History or her cities. And the same goes for the chinese and korean history.

When it comes to historical cities, the South Americans too had a rich and vibrant culture all through time. They have probably built cities and structures which would take a mammoth effort to build even with today's standards.


----------



## R.E-S

Guys isn't Beirut the most historic city in the world? National Geography even 
agreed.

Beirut stands on the site of a very ancient settlement going back at least 5,000 years. Its name appeared in cuneiform inscriptions as early as the 14th century B.C.In the first century B.C., Berytus, as it was then called, became a Roman Colony and under Roman rule was the seat of a famous Law school which continued into the Byzantine era.But the power and the glory of Berytus were destroyed by a triple catastrophe of earthquake, tidal wave and fire in 551 A.D. In the following century Arab Muslim forces took the city and in 1110 it fell into the Crusaders. Beirut remained in Crusader hands until 1291 when it was conquered by the Mamlukes. Ottoman rule began in 1516, continuing for 400 years later until the defeat of the Turks in World War I.
The French Mandate Period followed and in 1943 Lebanon gained its independence.Beneath the ruined downtown area, which is under reconstruction, lie the remains of Ottoman, Mamluke, Crusader, Abbassid, Omayyad, Byzantine, Roman, Persian, Phoenician and Canaanite Beirut. With luck, a good portion of Beirut's history will be uncovered before reconstruction is complete.Beginning in 1993, archaeologists and builders began cooperating on just such a project. Teams from Lebanese and foreign institutions have found significant remains from each of Beirut's historical periods. All discoveries are being carefully recorded and many will be preserved

This was recently discovered with thanks to the Beirut reconstruction. Beirut
sits on the crossroad of three continent and it was the main sea port in the 
whole world. Phoenicians were the first to build boats and their main port was 
Byblos, right on top of Beirut. The Bible derived it's name from Byblos and this
was the city that invented the alphabets. ''Byblos, north of Beirut, is the 
world’s oldest, continuously inhabited cities. Excavations have proven that 
people were living there 8,000 years ago. And not forgetting Tyros, Baalbeck
and the mother city of the phoenicians, Sidon. Also we could not forget 
Beirut, the world's largest urban archaeological excavations on Earth!

Here is Baalbeck, Temple of Bacchus.




Temple of Jupiter (look at the person in front of the second column bottom, this shows you how immense they really are...and not forgetting that this was built some 3000 years ago!!!







Tyros


Byblos



Lebanon has a lot of History, but no one yet knows about it.


----------



## nefise

istanbul:>


----------



## Jeff_in_Dayton

Jerusalem/Al Quds, Rome, Kyoto...yeah, Isntanbul too.


----------



## hkskyline

Istanbul does have a long and colourful history. Didn't the Europeans set out to sea to find a route to China because their caravans couldn't get to Europe through Constantinople?


----------



## kostya

Athens


----------



## porcelain

Athens + Rome


----------



## alsen

Bosra,Athen,memphis,london


----------



## mankawabi

Baghdad, Athens, Rome, Alexandria, Beijing, Istambul, Jerusalem, Mexico City, Cuzco, Beirut, Delhi, any others??


----------



## EtherealMist

^^ London, Paris?


----------



## Modernization

Xian?


----------



## Bitxofo

Cádiz, Spain. 
Called Gadir more than 3,000 years ago!

Memphis, Egypt.
More than 6,000 years old!!
:wink2:


----------



## neorion

Athens, Istanbul and Rome IMHO


----------



## OtAkAw

Rome, Athens, Istanbul, any capital of China's many empires that is a city nowadays (same as to India), cities in the Middle East and Europe, so there are MANY choices.


----------



## neorion

True, I was just considering the western world = eurocentric. There are many other cities in the world that are just as, if not more significant.


----------



## SE9

The 'most historic city' needs to stike a compromise between the length of history, and the importance/significance of that history.

A city with a colourful 1000 years, has a better history than a city with 4000 years of relative insignificance.


----------



## Khanrak

Damascus Syria... one of the worlds oldest continually inhabited cities.


----------



## crossbowman

Athens
Rome
Cairo
Beijing
Alexandria
Damascus


----------



## Hogan

Athens, Roma, Cairo , Istanbul


----------



## kids

> On your Marx
> 
> Jonathan Schofield is sitting at one of the most important tables in the history of the world. "Parts of the communist manifesto were written right here," he says. Five hours into his tour of radical Manchester, Schofield lets his voice become reverentially hushed for the first time. "Marx would sit on one side of the table and Engels on the other. Whenever I bring people from the Chinese consulate here and get out the old books that Marx and Engels touched, they weep."
> 
> We're in the reading room of Chetham's library, a venerable and cloistered building. *The bay window in which the table has sat for centuries was a preternaturally quiet spot to hone ideas of socialist revolution while the first city of capitalism seethed unseen and unheard outside.*
> 
> This, at least, is the historian's contention about the city's importance in catalysing communism. *"Without Manchester there would have been no Soviet Union,"* Schofield says with a challenging look. "And the history of the 20th century would have been very different." Imagine - no Lenin, no gulags, no Mao, no Nazi-Soviet Pact, no Cultural Revolution, no cold war, no nuclear arms race, no Che, no Che T-shirts, and, without doubt, no faithful Chinese communists crying among the bookshelves. Oh, Manchester (as Morrissey sang in a very different context), so much to answer for.
> 
> Can it really have such a central role in history? "Yes it can - and does," he says. Schofield directs me to a passage in Asa Briggs' Victorian Cities. "If Engels had lived not in Manchester but in Birmingham," wrote Briggs, "his conception of 'class' and his theories of the role of class in history might have been very different. The fact that Manchester was taken to be the symbol of the age in the 1840s ... was of central political importance in modern world history."
> 
> Engels arrived in 1842. His father, a Pietist, worried that little Friedrich was showing radical tendencies and sent him to work at a textile company in which he was a partner. "His father could not have thought of a worse place to send him," says Schofield. Nor a worse time. Victorian Manchester was a hotbed of radical ideas, where the Anti-Corn-Law League was agitating, where Chartists regularly rioted.
> 
> Two years after Engels hit town, Disraeli wrote in his novel Coningsby: "*The Age of Ruins is past. Have you seen Manchester? Manchester is as great a human exploit as Athens.*" To learn how the modern world was going, Engels might well have thought, better to immerse yourself in Manchester than classical Greece. "I would have loved to have lived in Manchester in the 1840s," says Schofield, "and possibly to have met Engels, who sounds a lovely man, even though he rode with the Cheshire hunt. Marx sounds like a lazy fat man who took Engels' money and his best ideas."
> 
> Schofield has made many similarly grand claims for the radical credentials of his favourite city in the 300-odd minutes since he met me at Piccadilly Station. He has alleged that vegetarianism took off as a mass movement thanks to the sermons of an early-19th-century Manchester preacher called the Rev William Cowherd. He has charged that the Trades Union Congress is a Mancunian invention. He has contended that the Free Trade Hall is the only building in Britain named after a principle. He has noted that the Women's Social and Political Union, stamping ground of the suffragette heroines Emmeline Pankhurst and Annie Kenney, was made in Manchester and that its militant civil disobedience bore all the bolshie hallmarks of Mancunian attitude.
> 
> All of this is declaimed in a ringing voice that stuns shoppers from their dogmatic slumbers as we walk. He forbears from moithering to me (as he has in print) about how the radical Manchester Guardian, forged in the wake of the city's Peterloo massacre, "fled to London in the 1960s", but he does recite me more verses by the Manchester punk poet John Cooper Clarke than anyone else can, with the possible exceptions of Mr Cooper Clarke and his mum. And, to return the favour, I don't quote him the words of Mark Twain: "I would like to live in Manchester. The transition between Manchester and Death would be unnoticeable."
> 
> It's just as well I don't, because Schofield seems guilty of an excess of civic pride, that rarest of English virtues. He has written books about Manchester and plans to write more, but you get the sense that this is where he gets most satisfaction as a historian - declaiming the city's history on the streets.
> 
> We start in Canal Street, where he points out a bar called Manto. "That's the first gay bar that came out," he says. So what? "Instead of being a hole in the corner affair, it was designed with big windows and terraces and balconies that said it had nothing to hide." Around the corner in Sackville Street, Schofield halts. "Typical Manchester," he says, "all fur coat and no knickers." He's alluding to the grandeur of the frontages of the renaissance-style palaces that sprang up as Manchester became Cottonopolis. The fronts may be dizzyingly ornamental, typical of the architectural energy of the Victorians, but the rear elevations are often modest. "Legend has it that Walter Gropius, the founder of Bauhaus, came to Manchester on his way to the US and realised that the Mancs had already done Bauhaus 100 years earlier on the backs of their buildings."
> 
> At the TUC building in Major Street, he tells me that Francis Fukuyama once did a reading there about the end of history. "It was towards the end of his world book tour and he got intellectually torn apart by 200 hardcore lefties. He told me he'd never come across such committed Marxists." True or just tall stories symptomatic of Manchester braggadocio? My money's on the latter.
> 
> On we go, to Manchester Art Gallery where there is a room embracing city icons from Pankhurst to Shaun Ryder, that Schofield reads as positing that they all have similarly radical sensibilities. "Manchester's the least aristocratic of British cities. There was no feudal system in Lancashire - there were churls, but no serfs. [A churl, you'll know, had a social position above a slave or serf but below a thane in Anglo-Saxon society.] The hand-loom weavers and cotton workers of Manchester were known for their bolshieness," he says, describing their cramped and disease-ridden cottages.
> 
> "They were moved by the injustice of their plight," says Schofield. "That's why so many of them went to St Peter's Fields in 1819." St Peter's Fields no longer exists, but Schofield stands in front of the International Convention Centre and describes the massacre that took place there on August 16 1819 in which 16 people died and 600 were injured. "The resonant thing was that British soldiers turned on their own people, and people who had gathered there for a serious peaceful demonstration to protest about the fact that big industrial cities such as Manchester had no political representation. The Peterloo massacre scandalised the middle classes and brought them behind the reform movement."
> 
> On we go, to the Free Trade Hall, where Schofield quotes with approval the words of his fellow townsman John Bright, the Rochdale orator and Anti-Corn-Law League stalwart, who said: "We were not born with saddles on our backs nor were the gentry born with spurs." Wasn't free trade just the rallying call of business? "No, the league was an alliance of middle classes and working classes. In years of bad harvest, the cost of bread went beyond the means of the poor because the Corn Laws guaranteed prices for British landowners." Today the hall named after a principle is a five-star hotel with radical prices of up to £1,000 a night.
> 
> Then on to the statue to the utopian socialist Robert Owen, to Chetham's library and its world-changing table, on to the beautiful choir of Manchester Cathedral, on to the Royal Exchange, centre of Mancunian capitalism. We've been walking for six hours and we still haven't visited some of the most important radical shrines - the Pankhurst Centre in Nelson Street, any of Engel's homes, the Griffin Inn in Great Ancoats Street where Chartist boozers boozed. Nor is there time to pay homage to the mass trespass of Kinder Scout in 1932 (organised by the Manchester Rambling Association). And doubtless more besides. But dusk is descending.
> 
> Schofield leaves me to visit another very important historical table alone. Why it wound up in the People's History Museum on Bridge Street isn't immediately clear. *On it, though, Thomas Paine wrote part of Rights of Man in 1792*, a book that was immediately banned by an outraged government. In it, Paine argued that all men over 21 should have the vote and the House of Lords be abolished. It is clearly a very radical table indeed, and for that reason alone its proper place of rest is Manchester.


Manchester is one of the most historical cities in the world, it's just unsung.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1701933,00.html


----------



## Roar/

1.Rome
2.Milan
3.Xiian
4.London
5.Athens
6.Areas in Egypt (Cario, Alexandra)


----------



## VaastuShastra

Id say India, China, Japan, Persia, Iraq, Greece, Italy, Mexico, Israel, Peru and Egypt have the most historically important cities, with Sumer, India and Egypt being the oldest urban civilizations, and Persia, China and Greece following closely on their heels. 

It seems some people mistake familiarity with the history of a city for an assumption that it must have the longest and most notable history - many historians would choose other cities over Rome, London or Athens - western philosophy wasnt the only philosophy developed in the world at the time Athens was at its height - it is mearly the school of thought that gains the most mention in in the Eurosphere. Eastern philosophy has a higher volume of literature within the same timespan, followed by a continuation of its development, and accounted for some of the most notable firsts, such as first systems of atheism (Carvaka/Lokayata), secularism (within Dharmic religion), logic, agnosticim (within the Rig Veda), concept of zero, base ten mathematics, etc.

Heres where my nominations would go:

India

*Delhi* - built over 4000 years by ever more opulent dynasties, allegedly the site of Indraprastha from the asian Mahabhrata epic, within the middle ages seven consecutive Mughal rulers (richest on the planet) built cities on it, current capital of Republic of India

*Patna* - formerly known as Pataliputra, capital of the Mauryan dynasty, largest Empire of the time, largest city of the time, twice the size of contemporary Rome, ruled by the first emperor of India, Chandragupta Maurya, and later Asoka Maurya, who was partly responsible for the popularity of Buddhism in Asia

*Bodh Gaya* - city where Buddha reached enlightenment, has been a place of pilgrimage in the 2500 years since, with a large temple, monestaries, university, etc

*Vijaynagara* - not as old, but famous for being another of the largest cities in the world at the time about ten times the size of contemporary London, and again probably the richest, with the first Europeans to reach India in the middle ages bringing home stories of street vendors selling buckets of gems and opulent buildings

*Varanasi* - aka Benares, one of the Indian shrine cities, allegedly the oldest continually inhabited city in the world, dating back to Sumer, Mark Twain wrote _"Benaras is older than history, older than tradition, older even than legend and looks twice as old as all of them put together!"_, not the oldest city in India when accounting for abandoned ones of the Indus Valley Civilization though

*Sarnath* - city where Buddha delivered his first 'sermon', one of the four main Buddhist pilgrimage sites like Bodh Gaya, home to some of the oldest stupas, home to a tree grown from a sapling cut from the original Bodhi tree under which Buddha was enlightened

Also:

*Bejing 

Xianyang

Chang'an

Kyoto

Tokyo

Persepolis*


----------



## Sale81

*Beograd*

Whats about Belgrade (Serbia): 

Belgrade is the capital and largest city of Serbia. It is one of the oldest cities in Europe, first settled in the 3rd century BC by the Celts before becoming the Roman settlement of Singidunum. The name Beograd (Belgrade) was first mentioned in 878 AD. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgrade


----------



## dANIEL2004

Easy: Athens, craddle of the western culture :scouserd:


----------



## Audiomuse

TIE-- London, Paris, Rome, Venice, Athens, Beijing, Istanbul, Tarsus, Salzburg, Amsterdam, Brugge, Madrid, Barcelona


----------



## Thorin

Of course Rome.


----------



## sharpie20

This could be a City Vs City thread in disguise

I guess: Rome, Athens, Istanbul, Jeruselem and Xi'an are the most historic cities


----------



## manuelka

damascus , syria


----------



## OtAkAw

Rome and Athens


----------



## ZZ-II

Rome, Athens and London


----------



## Ohno

Egypt, Rome, Beijing, X'an. Athen, Mexico


----------



## Slartibartfas

shayan said:


> For west asia and east europe i would say persepolis This city is the capital of the first civilisation. and it is the capital witch ruled over 90 precent of the known world.


Its interesting how such a giant entity like Persia was unable to conquer this chaotic bunch of Greek city states.


----------



## Slartibartfas

wjfox2002 said:


> 2,000 years isn't old enough?
> 
> There are Roman remains in London you know.


Wow, how special. There are Roman remains in Vienna too. Some excavations are even visible in front of the main gates of the empirial palace. Itself a collection of all epoques from the deepest medieval times onwards.

Vienna had somewhat as much inhabitants as Londonium. It was for centuries the center of the Holy Roman empire (of German Nation), and capital of the Austrian empire, and later on the Austrian-Hungarian monarchy. 

All in all it was by far the most important centre of central Europe. It was in the rank of London and Paris at least since the downfall of Napoleon until WWI. And show me a dynasty that managed to stay over 650 years without a break in power. Another one than the Habsburger. 

I dont try to claim that Vienna could take it up with giants like Rome which really deserves the title "eternal city" as you can find all the epoques of the last 2000 years spread over the town area. But competing with London might be worth an attempt. After all, has been the _whole _inner city of Vienna declared to be a World heritage sight.


----------



## nedolessej197

1 athens
2 mecca
3 rome


----------



## nuricool

History of Istanbul

Byzantion 
Chalcedon 
Chrysopolis 
Hiereia 
Konstantinopel 
Pera 
Istanbul


----------



## Eleatic Guest

Jakob said:


> My chart:
> ....
> 10) Berlin


Berlin is a fascinating city, because you can feel here the sharp, rough edges of history more than elsewhere. Actually, in terms of architecture there are three Berlins: the imperial, the socialist, and the federal, and they often switch abruptly from block to block, radically changing the atmosphere. That makes the city very challenging. Americans, in particular, love the city for that.


----------



## Marcanadian

Beijing
Athens
Rome
London
Cairo


----------



## balamir

tpe said:


> Bukhara and Samarkand had their glory days during Timur or Tamerlane. He claimed descent from Genghis Khan. The Timurid empire is, in this sense, Mongol.
> 
> A lot of the old Timurid architecture remains today. I point you to StormShadow's excellent pictoral thread on Bukhara, Samarkand, and Khiva.


timur wasnt mongol he was turkic


----------



## _BPS_

^ of Mongol descent


----------



## xaviyankee

Mexico City..


----------



## saladin1970

*The most historic citites*

I don't think london really gets a look in, it was a backwater province of rome and only became anything during the last few centuries.

Xi'an was the seat of imperial china for most of its dynasties and china was one of the major powers since recorded history,

like wise al-quds http://www.muslimwikipedia.com/mw/index.php/Al_Quds
(jerusalum) for its historical significance to jews muslims and christians

Then place like Cordoba the most advanced city in al-andalus (spain) in Europe from the 8th till the 16th century

Istanbul , the capital city of the byzantine and then ottoman empire

Rome - although its preeminance amongst christians came much later than Constantinople (Istanbul)

Baghdad, the seat of learning for centuries

Alexandria the jewel in the mediteranean

and damascus


----------



## wjfox

saladin1970 said:


> I don't think london really gets a look in, it was a backwater province of rome and only became anything during the last few centuries.


London's historical significance has already been explained several times in this thread.

Once again, you're assuming that "older" automatically means "more historically important".


----------



## Manila-X

every city has their own piece of history.


----------



## hkskyline

Some cities have a lot longer history than others; some have even successfully preserved that history while others haven't.


----------



## TohrAlkimista

erbsenzaehler said:


> Come on, Napoli was never that real important ^.^ Do you come from there? That would explain your try your attempt to convince us of it.


come on what? :lol: 

Napoli was never important for you! 

It was one of the Mariners Republics...very important for trades...an important port...I also remember you, my dear, that Naples in the 1500 was the second largest city in Europe, after Paris, with 125.000 ab....

so if it is incredibly underrated outside Italy, it is not my fault, but you should read some books before talking...^^


----------



## Mahratta

Agra and Benaras (Varanasi)


----------



## Crizzy

I think Rome or Athens


----------



## funkrush

Istanbul:banana2:


----------



## JD

One of the crappiest thread! So London, Paris ....are historically important cities! I bet most non-Europeans don't even know the history of colonial London, far-less one happened before!


----------



## lucknowii sky

VaastuShastra said:


> Id say India, China, Japan, Persia, Iraq, Greece, Italy, Mexico, Israel, Peru and Egypt have the most historically important cities, with Sumer, India and Egypt being the oldest urban civilizations, and Persia, China and Greece following closely on their heels.
> 
> It seems some people mistake familiarity with the history of a city for an assumption that it must have the longest and most notable history - many historians would choose other cities over Rome, London or Athens - western philosophy wasnt the only philosophy developed in the world at the time Athens was at its height - it is mearly the school of thought that gains the most mention in in the Eurosphere. Eastern philosophy has a higher volume of literature within the same timespan, followed by a continuation of its development, and accounted for some of the most notable firsts, such as first systems of atheism (Carvaka/Lokayata), secularism (within Dharmic religion), logic, agnosticim (within the Rig Veda), concept of zero, base ten mathematics, etc.
> 
> Heres where my nominations would go:
> 
> India
> 
> *Delhi* - built over 4000 years by ever more opulent dynasties, allegedly the site of Indraprastha from the asian Mahabhrata epic, within the middle ages seven consecutive Mughal rulers (richest on the planet) built cities on it, current capital of Republic of India
> 
> *Patna* - formerly known as Pataliputra, capital of the Mauryan dynasty, largest Empire of the time, largest city of the time, twice the size of contemporary Rome, ruled by the first emperor of India, Chandragupta Maurya, and later Asoka Maurya, who was partly responsible for the popularity of Buddhism in Asia
> 
> *Bodh Gaya* - city where Buddha reached enlightenment, has been a place of pilgrimage in the 2500 years since, with a large temple, monestaries, university, etc
> 
> *Vijaynagara* - not as old, but famous for being another of the largest cities in the world at the time about ten times the size of contemporary London, and again probably the richest, with the first Europeans to reach India in the middle ages bringing home stories of street vendors selling buckets of gems and opulent buildings
> 
> *Varanasi* - aka Benares, one of the Indian shrine cities, allegedly the oldest continually inhabited city in the world, dating back to Sumer, Mark Twain wrote _"Benaras is older than history, older than tradition, older even than legend and looks twice as old as all of them put together!"_, not the oldest city in India when accounting for abandoned ones of the Indus Valley Civilization though
> 
> *Sarnath* - city where Buddha delivered his first 'sermon', one of the four main Buddhist pilgrimage sites like Bodh Gaya, home to some of the oldest stupas, home to a tree grown from a sapling cut from the original Bodhi tree under which Buddha was enlightened
> 
> Also:
> 
> *Bejing
> 
> Xianyang
> 
> Chang'an
> 
> Kyoto
> 
> Tokyo
> 
> Persepolis*


why didnt you include agra?


----------



## taboe

fernao said:


> Sorry but Oriental cities are very old, very big, very whatever but the global culture is totally western and so the western cities are the ones with the importance in World History.
> 
> West invented pretty much everything and, maybe even more important, took their inventions to all the world, all continents - western culture is everywhere (including China): Stock markets, Science, Trains, Coca cola, gunpowder, building, flights, cars, TVs, languages - english spanish portuguese french, Medicins, surgery, architecture, engineering, the pill, etc etc
> 
> The inverse is not true and chinese culture did nothing of this and have no role in most of Europe, America, Africa, etc. The same aplies for India, whose roots for european cultures are far to far away and have nothing to do with it, and for Amerindian cultures or african cultures. All the world is becoming Europe and America which is just another Europe.
> 
> 
> So for me the most historic cities are...
> 
> Important for their role in Classical times and shaping Western civilization, culture, philosophy, politics, religion:
> Babylon, Ur, Alexandria
> Jerusalem
> Athens
> Tiro
> Rome
> Mecca
> Istambul
> 
> Important in Middle Ages/Renaissance - appearance of science and Europe spreading its culture through all the world, empires:
> Lisbon
> Toledo/Madrid/Seville
> Rome, Genova, Firenze, Milano, Venice, others in Italy
> Amsterdam
> Paris
> London
> 
> XVIII-XIX - enlightment, french invasions, politics, empires, science development, medicine:
> Paris
> London
> Viena
> Berlin/Munich
> Moscow
> 
> XX - world wars, space conquest, end of colonial empires, science, TV, internet, cars, flights, skyscrapers, sports,...:
> NYC, Washington DC
> Berlin
> London
> Moscow
> Tokyo
> Paris


That's ridiculous!
Before colonial times, Europe had no influence on any other part of the world whatsoever. Chinese arabic culture, for example, was easily as sophisticated, if not more. Furthermore, most of the inventions up until the 16th century were made in the East, e.g. GUNPOWDER. 
And Rome was indeed the capital of a large empire, but so what? Moscow was the capital of a much greater empire, does that make it the most historic city in the world? 
And as for our Western values of democracy and freedom... That's because we forced our will onto our colonies. Before we invaded them, they had their own systems...
And nowadays the East has no influence on the West? Are you kidding me? Sure there are Mc Donald's in Japan, but there's also Manga here and Sony and Honda, Mitsubishi,etc..


----------



## Hanshin-Tigress

Before colonial times, Europe had no influence on any other part of the world whatsoever. Chinese arabic culture, for example, was easily as sophisticated, if not more. Furthermore, most of the inventions up until the 16th century were made in the East, e.g. GUNPOWDER. 
And Rome was indeed the capital of a large empire, but so what? Moscow was the capital of a much greater empire, does that make it the most historic city in the world? 
And as for our Western values of democracy and freedom... That's because we forced our will onto our colonies. Before we invaded them, they had their own systems...
And nowadays the East has no influence on the West? Are you kidding me? Sure there are Mc Donald's in Japan, but there's also Manga here and Sony and Honda, Mitsubishi,etc..[/QUOTE]

But Manga started off of disney comics(look it up) And the car was invented in the west...in germany i believe. I think the place with the most influence in the world is USA and alot of the things we use today are made by them. I am living in Osaka right now and all i hear is american music, watch american movies, people that speak english are 'cool' etc. The world is becoming 'americanized' But I agree that many westerners are wayy to biased in their selection of cities. I think both china and japan have very beautiful rich ancient history! People learn from other people it's not like athens invented 'western civilization' they got many things from the egyptians and other peoples. The thing about us here in the east...our history is like intact..that is china is still China and japan japan. Many places in europe have been conquered and reconquered so many times and mixing of different cultures/languages.


----------



## MNL

MANILA - 3 cultures in one city!


----------



## Mahratta

The ignorance in this thread....

I would say that *Varanasi (Benares)* would be it...


----------



## premier

SKYCRIZZY said:


> I think Rome or Athens


My thought exacly  



funkrush said:


> Istanbul:banana2:


Now when you mentioned it. Yes, Stanbul is very historical. The only city that was the capital of 3 empires


----------



## Mahratta

premier said:


> My thought exacly
> 
> 
> 
> Now when you mentioned it. Yes, Stanbul is very historical. The only city that was the capital of 3 empires


No, there were plenty of other cities...but just not from a Eurocentric point of view, savvy?

Actually, there were others in Europe itself!


----------



## premier

Examples? Couse I relly don't know what cities you are on about


----------



## Mahratta

example:

*Delhi* was the capital of the Ghurid Sultanate, then the Mughal Empire (for a while), then the British Indian Empire (in 1911).

*Beijing* - as Zhongdu under the Jurchen Jin, as Khanbaliq under the Mongols, then the Ming Dynasty capital, then the Qing Dynasty.

*Ujjain* - capital of the Avanti dynasty, Gupta capital (under Chandragupta II), capital of the Maratha Empire.

Now do you know?


----------



## premier

Alright, thanks. Bt did those Empires relly have such a big influence on the world or ther local area?


----------



## Mahratta

premier said:


> Alright, thanks. Bt did those Empires relly have such a big influence on the world or ther local area?


Both. India and China were two of the most influential areas of the world, and anything that happened there effected the rest of the world as well. People dont really realize sometimes.


----------



## Tharpe

1:*Jeruslem*
2:*Rome*
3:*London*


----------



## Ekumenopolis

1 - Rome
2 - Athens
3 - Beijing
4 - Jerusalem
5 - Benares/Alexandria (Egypt)


----------



## m-man

i think sana'a(yemen) is one of the most historic
Physical and Historical 
Located in the southwestern tip of the Arabian Peninsula, Yemen's earliest excavated village settlements are dated to c. 5000 BC and the first urban settlements on the eastern deserts date from around 1200 BC. Sana'a lies in a fertile basin over two thousand meters above sea level, on a major communication axis that crosses the mountains of Yemen. As part of the African Horn where the Red Sea meets the Indian Ocean, it is often described as the ancestral heartland of the Arabs


----------



## bonivison

Beijing is of course the one of Oriental culture
this is the forbidden city by sattelite








this is a section of the Great Wall in Beijing








then Rome should be the one of western culture
besides,Kairo Paris London are great also


----------



## Daryae_Abi

Esfahan, I.R. Iran -- the cradle of civilization
Clever, sneaky, cheap, bastard people but a lovely city










Home of the world's first arch structure:





































Home of Ferdosi:










Home of Naghshe Jahan square:














































And countless historical mosques and churches:




























And Esfahan is timeless.
It was a hub during the old Iranian empire, and remained a hub during the Islamic empire, all the way to just 300 years ago. 3000 years or so that Esfahan was a world city. Can any other city say that?


----------



## Istanbullu

Metropolist said:


> cairo, istanbul, athens, rome were the most impressive imo.
> some cities in india and china are historically great.



I second that...


----------



## Filipe_Teixeira

Lisbon of corse.. This people don't meet Lisbon.. :|

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=349411


----------



## tuga14

I put some photos about Lisbon for you know it better

*Lisbon - Ancient Districts*






















































[/QUOTE]




















































































































































































































































































































































































I hope you like it!:cheers:


----------



## Ondas

Lisbon is of course the most historic city


----------



## Pincio

Ondas said:


> Lisbon it's of course the most historic city


I like Lisbon but I don't think is the most historic city


----------



## Pincio

m-man said:


> i think sana'a(yemen) is one of the most historic
> Physical and Historical
> Located in the southwestern tip of the Arabian Peninsula, Yemen's earliest excavated village settlements are dated to c. 5000 BC and the first urban settlements on the eastern deserts date from around 1200 BC. Sana'a lies in a fertile basin over two thousand meters above sea level, on a major communication axis that crosses the mountains of Yemen. As part of the African Horn where the Red Sea meets the Indian Ocean, it is often described as the ancestral heartland of the Arabs


wow....


----------



## Pincio

wjfox2002 said:


> *Athens* - in ancient times, this was the leading cultural and intellectual centre on the planet. Much of "western civilization" has its origins there.
> 
> *Rome* - capital of the Roman Empire. Major influence on the development of government, law, military, architecture, and many other aspects of Western life.
> 
> *London* - home to some of the most famous Kings and Queens in history, spanning the Saxon, Norman, Mediæval, Tudor, Stuart, Georgian and Victorian periods. The parliamentary model of democratic government was formed there. It was also the centre of the Industrial Revolution, and capital of the largest and most widespread empire in modern history. It survived the Great Fire of London, numerous plagues, invasions, rebellions, and of course the devastating bomb attacks of World War II.


Why London?


----------



## Newcastle Guy

"Why London?"? He gave his reasons in the post. And he is allowed that opinion. Will has explained himself once, he shouldn't have to explain himself again just because a. You don't think London is historical enough and b. You are ignorant of London's history.


----------



## tuga14

Pincio said:


> I like Lisbon but I don't think is the most historic city


No,*Lisbon *is one of the most historic cities, Is the *2nd oldest city* in Europe, at the 1st is Athens


----------



## Pincio

Rome has the biggest and most important archeological site in the world.


----------



## tuga14

I like very much Roma:yes: it´s a very wonderfull city, with history and ancient too
Some day I would like go there


----------



## Jedrzej

1. Rome
2. Kraków
3. Paris
4. Florence
5. Prague
6. London
7. Warsaw
8. Budapest
9. Vilnius
10. Tallinn


----------



## Arjuch

edit


----------



## Gaeus

*My Top Five Most Important Ancient Cities*

I don't want to put the modern cities that exist today. The modern cities may played a large role to our civilization of today but the Seven Lists I made is where the real civilizations began and later adapted by us.



1. Thebes - the capital of Ancient Egypt. Many ancient cities and monuments surrounds such as the famous pyramids, the Sphinx, Valley of the Kings. It is home of Luxor and Karnak Temple (it is still the largest temple complex ever made on earth after 3000 years). They created the first true advanced civilization ever existed besides Sumer. This is where geometry and precision timing were invented. Medicine started here. Some scholars think that Egyptian Hieroglyphs where the first true writings in history but some say its the Sumerians. This is still being debated. The first large scale Civil Engineering started here and that leads to many machines invented such as the ramps and levers. The first scientific method was also made here. And of course, who never heard of the "papyrus". Astronomy also started here. Irrigation, the system that made farming more productive due to minerals coming from the river water (which is the Nile River), was also invented here.

2. Eridu - closed number two. The religion capital of Sumer or the Sumerian civilization. The heart of Mesopotamia. This is where the most important invention ever made, the wheel. The first true legal and administrative system were made in this civilization complete with courts and jails and even government records. Besides Egypt, Arithmetic was invented and developed here. The term called "city states" was also invented here. Some say military formations were invented here and even the first formal school system. Their system was later adapted by the Babylonians and later by the Persians.

3. Xi'an - the capital of the longest and most complex civilization of the world. Some scholars say that agriculture was first invented here. The Traditional Chinese Medicine such as Acupuncture and herbal medicines were pre-dated on First Millenium BC. They invented the first time-keeping devices which was later adapted by the West. The first flying device such as kite and chinese lantern was invented here. The first calculator, which is the abacus, was invented here. The greatest invention that was ever made in China was the papermaking, compass, gunpowder and printing. The first Chinese Empire has the most advanced weapons on their time. One of them is the crossbow. The Great Wall of China is still the longest structure ever made and that leads the Barbarians such as the Huns and Goths to go to Europe and destroy the Great Roman Empire. If Romans could have just created such walls, the empire will surely still exist longer.

4. Athens - the cradle of the Western Civilization. It is where democracy was made. Ironically, its rival Sparta, was the first True Military Government was made and some scholars say that it was later adapted in the System of Communism. Athens was named after Athena - the goddess of defensive warfare. It is where the scientific method was developed to be used and adapted today. The Greek Philosophy is still adapted today and its mythology is still being discussed in schools worldwide. Thanks to Alexander the Great, the Greek civilization flourished through Central Asia, Egypt and Asia Minor. It was later adapted by the Romans and later, by the French and the Americans and the Western World.

5. Persepolis and Susa - the capital and the home of the Persian Emperor, the heart of Persian Empire. This is where the first Human Rights was adapted. The first Empire that adapts diversified culture. They are founders of algebra. They discovered alcohol. The invented the first wind-powered machines. Qanat, the first water management system that was used to provide water to human settlements and irrigation, was invented and developed here.

6. Rome - during ancient time, it was called the light of the world. If Athens invented the Western Philosophies, Rome made the Western Culture. The Collosseum, after 2000 years, is still the model of modern stadiums today. The Senate, which was adapted by Greece, was more advanced. They adapted the road system structures which spread all across Europe, Asia Minor and North Africa. The Aqueduct System is still advance even in today's standards. the crane system was invented here. Bathhouses, was not invented by Romans but they developed it to become more advanced and was even adapted today. Many military mechanical and civil engineering was made here.

7. Jerusalem - the city that wanted by everyone for thousands of years. Many called it the Holy Land, the Land of Cana. It is the city that makes men mad. The reason of the holy wars from crusaders to today's Israel and Muslim conflict. Many religious icons walked and died here. Many stories from the Christian Holy Bible, Muslim's Koran and the Jewish Bible (Tanakh) were originated here. This is where the Judaism, Catholicism and Islam started - Thanks to Abraham and his followers. In terms of religion, there is no doubt that this is the most historical city in the world.


----------



## Rizzato

I have no idea what city is the 'most historic'
but these are some amazing pictures


----------



## Jedrzej

europe! said:


> ^^
> 
> If you put Florence at 4th where is Antwerp than ?
> 
> There where both THE renaissance cities. So why do you put Florence at 4th and Antwerp not even in top 10, actually the whole list is a bit of nonsense but still ... explain.


Because for me Antwerp isn't a historic city. In Poland nobody heard about it as a historic city.... I can also ask where is Kraków, Warsaw, Vilnius etc. on many lists. Don't think that Antwerp is the the hub of the Europe and everybody have to think that it's the best in everything.....


----------



## Arjuch

edit


----------



## Arjuch

^^



europe! said:


> ^^
> 
> lol, I am going to say this for the last time, Antwerp is not the MOST historic city !!!!


'Antwerp is not the most historic city' p12

I think some people can't read hno:


----------



## Pincio

We could start a thread called MOST ARTISTIC CITIES. Antwerp will be surely in that list kay:


----------



## Arjuch

^^ 
Nice idea :nocrook:


----------



## neorion

boeing777 said:


> Greece not Athens.
> 
> Athens wasn't the center of the ancient greece,It wasn't the "Rome" of the period.


 Wrong!! When we speak of Athens, like 'Edinburgh is the Athens of the north' etc, we speak of an important city for arts, sciences, politics etc. The Age of Pericles, the Athenian Golden Age refers to ancient Greece at its height, which was centred in ancient Athens. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Pericles


----------



## ParisianStyle

1) Jerusalem
2) Paris
3) Rome


----------



## ozanoral

1-Rome
2-Athens
3-Istanbul


----------



## city_thing

I would have thought that Damascus, or maybe Basra would be at the top of this list. The area around Basra was the epicentre of the mesoptanian empire, from which the majority of our culture has derived (writing, poetry, farming etc. etc.) - And Damascus is on of the oldest cities on Earth, if not the oldest.


----------



## Abu 3Leish

your ignorance fascinates me....the oldest city on the planet which is still inhabited today which has made a huge contrabution to how we all live our daily lives and should therefore be seen as the world's most historic city is the city of Byblos on the lebanese coast north of Beirut..the city of Byblos was founded roughly around 10,000-11,000 years ago by the cannanites then the city fell into the phonecian empire and is where the first alphabet was created(you wdnt be able 2 read and write without this city) then when our lord jesus christ came lebanon the first bible was written and published in byblos ,and it is today in byblos where you see a mosque and a church built within feet of each other it is in byblos where modern civilization began , and thats a fact all of you will have to face sooner or later.


----------



## miguel77

MEXICO CITY OF COURSE!


----------



## Kailyas

1. Mekah
2. Madina
3. Jerusalem
4. Athens
5. Rome.


----------



## hkskyline

Are we considering oldest continuously-habited cities or oldest cities that may have the highest age but have since been deserted, abandoned, or destroyed?


----------



## wjfox

hkskyline said:


> Are we considering oldest continuously-habited cities or oldest cities that may have the highest age but have since been deserted, abandoned, or destroyed?


Neither, it's simply the one you personally think has the most interesting and/or significant history. It's quite subjective. People can vote for New York if they want to, for example.


----------



## hkskyline

Ahh ... hence we should clearly state what we're comparing to in our assessments to avoid a clash of opinions when we may be comparing apples to oranges.


----------



## gladisimo

wjfox said:


> Neither, it's simply the one you personally think has the most interesting and/or significant history. It's quite subjective. People can vote for New York if they want to, for example.


In terms of that, there can't be a single msot historic city, as the world had powerful regional centers throughout its ages that have risen and fallen, and honestly I can't rank any of them over any other. 

I know this is a bit of a generic POV, but at the same time it is what I think (go figure)


----------



## hkskyline

gladisimo said:


> In terms of that, there can't be a single msot historic city, as the world had powerful regional centers throughout its ages that have risen and fallen, and honestly I can't rank any of them over any other.
> 
> I know this is a bit of a generic POV, but at the same time it is what I think (go figure)



I suppose you can use that to judge the impact these cities had over history and whether one stood out more than others for the period they were glorious.


----------



## Wuppeltje

I would say Rome. 

Rome had and still has so many influence on western societies. Many western figures in the past wanted to have a little bit of the old glory of the Roman Empire. A lot of famous buildings in western countries are influenced by old buildings in Rome. 
For example, the people of Amsterdam gave their townhall in their Golden Age a Rome feel, especially on the inside. 










Rome not only had the Roman Empire, but also had and still has the Vatican. Especially in the middle ages this was a very influential and powerful institution. 

There are a lot of other historical cities, but none of them come really close the Rome. Asian cities had a lot of regional influence and still have, but I don't sense a lot of influence of Chinese cities towards Japan or India. For me buildings such as the United States Capitol says a lot of the influence of the old Rome. It is easy to spot something directly to Rome in many countries, while this less direct with other historical cities. 

On other parts Rome might be less different with other historical cities, but on every aspect it can compared with the best.


----------



## alessandro_q

There's no doubt Rome is the most historic place in the world !!!


----------



## Skybean

Despite consistent mention of Beijing ( at least 30 forumers in this thread ), all Chinese would disagree as it is factually untrue. 






Marathoner said:


> Beijing is not the most historical city in China, Xian is more historical, *more than 3200 years old*.





UD2 said:


> 2000 years is old... but just not old enough....
> 
> I am not saying that London is not an important and historical city, but there are others that are far more histrocial than London.
> *
> You must realize that urban civialization came much later in the west than it did in the East.
> *
> Damascus had two miles of lit streets before London had its walls. *The Chinese capital of Chang'an (now Xi'an) had blocks of the most modern urban planning (concepts widely used today) before London had its first cathederal*.
> 
> London is the core of the industral revolution. It is no doublt that London and Paris played unmatched roles in the course of modern history, but as I said before... the history of man kind didn't began in the year 1867.





Pax Sinica said:


> *Kyoto really preserves a lot of Tang Dynasty's Chang'an city planning*, with a smaller scale though. Without Chang'an, the famous Silk Road would never become the world's oldest, busiest and longest trade route. When Chang'an was at its peak, it always represented some of the most expensive goods in the ancient time such as silk, porcelain, jade or tea.
> 
> BTW, "Chang'an" means eternal peace and its current name "Xi'an" means western peace. For those don't know Chinese characters, "Beijing" means northern capital, "Nanjing" means southern capital and "Tokyo" means eastern capital.
> 
> The site of Chang'an of the Han Dynasty(206 BC–AD 220) was located in northwest of today's Xi'an, Shaanxi. Another site, Chang'an of the Tang Dynasty(618–907), includes the area inside the walls of Xi'an, small parts of eastern, western and major part of southern suburbs of modern Xi'an city. It is 8 times as big as the Xi'an city in the Ming Dynasty(1368–1644), which was reconstructed on the basis of the imperial city of the Sui and Tang Dynasty. Chang'an was one of the largest and the most populous cities in the world.
> 
> As the capital of the Western Han Dynasty, i*t was the political, economic and cultural center of China, the start of the Silk Road, and an cosmopolitan metropolis comparable with the greatest cities of the contemporaneous Roman Empire*. It was a consumer city, a city whose existence was not primarily predicated upon manufacturing and trade, but rather boasted such a large population because of its role as the political capital of China.
> 
> Xi'an is now listed as one of the Four/Eight Great Ancient Capitals(Xi'an, Nanjing, Beijing, Luoyang/Kaifeng, Hangzhou, Anyang and Zhengzhou) of China because it has been the capital of 13 dynasties such as Zhou, Qin, Han, and Tang.
> 
> 
> *Some of the most important events in this eternal peaceful city....*
> 
> *11th century BC-770 BC*: Zhou Dynasty established its capital in Feng and Hao, both located west of contemporary Xi'an.
> *221 BC-206 BC*: Qin Dynasty constructed its capital in Xianyang, on the north shore of Wei River. It was burned by Xiang Yu at the end of the dynasty.
> *202 BC*: Liu Bang, the founding emperor of the Han Dynasty, established Chang'an County as his capital; his first palace Changle Palace was built across the river from the ruin of the Qin capital. This is traditionally regarded as the founding date of Chang'an and Xi'an.
> *200 BC*: Emperor Liu Bang built Weiyang Palace in Chang'an.
> *194 BC*: Construction of the first city wall of Chang'an began, which did not finished until 190 BC. The wall measured 25.7 km in length, 12-16 m in thickness at the base. The area within the wall was ca. 36 km².
> *582*: Emperor of Sui Dynasty ordered a new capital to be built southeast of the Han capital, called Daxing. It consisted of three sections: the Palace, the Imperial City, and the civilian section. The total area within the wall was 84 km², The main street Zhuque Avenue measured 155 m in width. It was the largest city in the world. The city was renamed Chang'an in Tang Dynasty.
> *7th century*: Buddhist monk Xuan Zang, well-known as Tang Sanzang in China, established a sizeable translation centre after returning from India with Sanskrit scriptures.
> *701*: Construction of Da Yan Pagoda. It measured 64 m in height. This pagoda was constructed for the storage of the translation of the Buddha Sutra obtained from India by the monk Xuan Zang.
> *707*: Construction of Xiao Yan Pagoda began. It measured 45 m in height. After the earthquake of 1556 AD, its height was reduced to 43.4 m.
> *904*: The end of Tang Dynasty brought destruction to Chang'an. Residences were forced to move to Luoyang, the new capital. Only a small area continued to be occupied after the destruction.
> *1370*: Ming Dynasty built a new wall to protect a much smaller city of 12 km². The wall measures 11.9 km in circumference, 12 m in height, and 15-18 m in thickness at the base.
> *1936*: This city was the site of the Xi'an Incident during World War II. The Xi'an Incident brought the Communist Party of China and Kuomintang to a truce so the two forces could concentrate on fighting against Japan.







Skybean said:


> Chang'an / Xian is a much older capital than Beijing. There are monuments, buildings and relics from thousands of years ago. Yet this city barely gets a mention.
> 
> 
> Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi'an
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang'an
> 
> Xian City Walls (700 years old)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big Goose Pagoda (1350 years old)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Small Goose Pagoda (1300 years old)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great Mosque of Xian (1360 years old)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qin Shi Huang Masoleum + Terra Cotta Warriors (2300 years old)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....






Wuppeltje said:


> I don't sense a lot of influence of Chinese cities towards Japan or India.


*Wrong. * Please don't look at Japanese cities that were fire bombed during the Second World War like Tokyo. Take a look at the building styles in Korea, China and Japan. There are clear design cues from Xi'an. Kyoto in Japan was designed by taking planning ideas from Xi'an. There are also similarities in spoken and written language, culture and dress (amongst many other similarities).


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## Wuppeltje

Skybean said:


> Wrong. Please don't look at Japanese cities that were fire bombed during the Second World War like Tokyo. Take a look at the building styles in Korea, China and Japan. There are clear design cues from Xi'an. Kyoto in Japan was designed by taking planning ideas from Xi'an. There are also similarities in spoken and written language, culture and dress (amongst many other similarities).


But are these similarities all coming from Xi'an? 

Rome was not just the capital of the Roman Empire, all the other cities were nothing compared to Rome in it's empire. And the influence of Rome was far beyond the borders of the empire. Rome is considered as the first city with more than 1 million inhabitants. No city came close in the western world for a very long time, not only in seize, but also not in political, economical, and military power. 

A lot of the infrastructure build by Rome was still in use in the Middle Ages, long after the fall of Rome. In the rule of law in many countries there are a lot of traces to Rome. In most written languages that western countries have there are still all kind of words that are directly from Latin. We use a Roman alphabet in most western countries. Roman numbers aren't really in use anymore, you can still find buildings in a lot of countries and on all continents with Roman numbers on it. 

While other cities are more important than Rome nowadays, Rome itself is still important for a major part of the world (especially religion).


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## Skybean

Rome's claim to be the first city to 1 million inhabitants can be disputed. As various sources seem to indicate vastly different counts for the same years. Honestly, it would be extremely difficult to count that many people or organize any kind of terribly accurate census. 

From this source, Chang'an is the amongst the first to reach 1,000,000 (and had 100,000 people in 1000 B.C.) :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cities_throughout_history

Around 750 A.D. Chang'an was called a "million people's city" in Chinese records, while modern estimates put it at around 800,000–1,000,000 within city walls. According to the census in the year 742 recorded in the New Book of Tang, 362,921 families with 1,960,188 persons were counted in Jingzhao Fu (京兆府), the metropolitan area including small cities in the vicinity.

The site of the Han capital was located 3 km northwest of modern Xi'an. As the capital of the Western Han, it was the *political, economic and cultural center of China*. It was also the *eastern terminus of the Silk Road*, and a cosmopolitan metropolis comparable with the greatest cities of the contemporaneous Roman Empire.

The "Silk Road" essentially came into being from the 1st century BC, following these efforts by China to consolidate a road to the Western world and India, both through direct settlements in the area of the Tarim Basin and diplomatic relations with the countries of the Dayuan, Parthians and Bactrians further west. The Han Dynasty Chinese army regularly policed the trade route against nomadic bandit forces generally identified as the Xiongnu/Huns. Han general Ban Chao led an army of 70,000 mounted infantry and light cavalry troops in the 1st century AD to secure the trade routes, reaching far west across central Asia to the doorstep of Europe, and setting up base on the shores of the Caspian Sea in cooperation with the Parthian Kingdom under Pacorus II of Parthia.

A maritime "Silk Route" opened up between Chinese-controlled Jiaozhi (centred in modern Vietnam, near Hanoi) probably by the 1st century. It extended, via ports on the coasts of India and Sri Lanka, all the way to Roman-controlled ports in Egypt and the Nabataean territories on the northeastern coast of the Red Sea.

With the Silk Route there was enormous *technological transfer to the West*.. with Xi'an being what many consider to be the starting point of the Silk Route. 

The period of the High Middle Ages in Europe and East Asia saw major technological advances, including the diffusion through the Silk Road of the precursor to *movable type printing, gunpowder, the astrolabe, and the compass.*

Large Chinese junks were also observed by these travelers and may have provided impetus to develop larger ships in Europe.

The Japanese built their ancient capitals, Heijokyo (today's* Nara*) and later Heian-Kyo or* Kyoto*, modelled after Chang'an in a more modest scale yet was never fortified.The modern Kyoto still retains some characteristics of Sui-Tang Chang'an. Similarly, the Korean Silla dynasty modeled their capital of *Gyeongju *after the Chinese capital. 

During the Tang Dynasty, Japanese overseas students arrived in Chang'an to study the ways of the Tang dynasty.* When they went back to Japan, they brought with them books, religion, technologies, and Chinese characters (on which Japanese characters are based)*. Some Japanese even lived out their lives in Chang'an. Following the Japanese envoys was Kukai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kūkai) who came to Chang'an in 804; he first stayed in the Ximing Temple and later followed Monk Huiguo of the Blue Dragon Temple to study Esoteric Buddhism. He returned to Japan in 806 after he had finished his studies and established the True Word Sect of Buddhism in Japan and finally became a great master in establishing the "Eastern Esotericism".


It is a fact that Xi'an was at least as influential as Rome during its peak period and it's legacy remains deeply enshrined in the Eastern world, despite a lack of recognition in the Western world.


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## Mahratta

Wuppeltje said:


> But are these similarities all coming from Xi'an?
> 
> Rome was not just the capital of the Roman Empire, all the other cities were nothing compared to Rome in it's empire. And the influence of Rome was far beyond the borders of the empire. Rome is considered as the first city with more than 1 million inhabitants. No city came close in the western world for a very long time, not only in seize, but also not in political, economical, and military power.
> 
> A lot of the infrastructure build by Rome was still in use in the Middle Ages, long after the fall of Rome. In the rule of law in many countries there are a lot of traces to Rome. In most written languages that western countries have there are still all kind of words that are directly from Latin. We use a Roman alphabet in most western countries. Roman numbers aren't really in use anymore, you can still find buildings in a lot of countries and on all continents with Roman numbers on it.
> 
> While other cities are more important than Rome nowadays, Rome itself is still important for a major part of the world (especially religion).



What many don't realize is that China and the Sinosphere and India and the corresponding Indosphere were, for most of history, more significant than Europe both economically and population wise. Therefore the cities with influence in China like Xi'an and the cities in India like Benares and Delhi hold as much, if not more influence than Rome to a huge amount of the world.


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## Wuppeltje

The silk route, was without doubt very important. But Xi'an/Chang'an was 1 of the places that were important on that route for Europe. 

In history lessons in The Netherlands Rome is important. Not because it was just a very important city, but because it influenced us a lot in different ways. For more than a thousand years after the heyday of Rome there wasn't a city in Europe close to the old influence of Rome. The Middle Ages were a huge step back in civilization here. Europe was gaining power again after "rediscovering" Rome and gaining Arabic and Chinese technology, collecting them and making their own inventions. I don't have the feeling that China had such a downfall of civilization after the heyday of Xi'an/Chang'an. Of course there were downfalls, but so dramatic?

The economical power and population in the past wasn't that important, because it was very regional for a long time. Huge civilizations hardly knew (or were forgotten) each other for a long time. China has now far more influence on Europe and visa versa than in the past. With the European imperialism influence started for the first time on global scale.


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## Julito-dubai

Eridu, Uruk and Ur. The first cities in human history (today's Iraq)


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## tuguesh

The most important city in Europe -and known al over the world- is without a doubt Paris. Its splendor is still preserved today and reflect more than 2000 years of history. It has ever been the center of the world intelectual think, home of the philosophy of lights that spread all over the world to bring human right, laicité,democracy, the encyclopaedia .... It used to be at the center of a hudge empire, and that is perhaps Paris has the biggest museums in the world, including the Louvres. The Eiffel tower reflect the powerfull industry of the 19 century, at the time of the industrial revolution. Paris hadthe hudge luck not being destroyed in second world war, because the german general who was in charge of the city's governance did not execute hitler's order to destroy the city before German's retreat from the country ... just because he felt in love with Paris ! Thanks to this guy the city has conserved its intemporal splendor.


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## hkskyline

Wuppeltje said:


> The silk route, was without doubt very important. But Xi'an/Chang'an was 1 of the places that were important on that route for Europe.
> 
> In history lessons in The Netherlands Rome is important. Not because it was just a very important city, but because it influenced us a lot in different ways. For more than a thousand years after the heyday of Rome there wasn't a city in Europe close to the old influence of Rome. The Middle Ages were a huge step back in civilization here. Europe was gaining power again after "rediscovering" Rome and gaining Arabic and Chinese technology, collecting them and making their own inventions. I don't have the feeling that China had such a downfall of civilization after the heyday of Xi'an/Chang'an. Of course there were downfalls, but so dramatic?
> 
> The economical power and population in the past wasn't that important, because it was very regional for a long time. Huge civilizations hardly knew (or were forgotten) each other for a long time. China has now far more influence on Europe and visa versa than in the past. With the European imperialism influence started for the first time on global scale.


Xian has historically been the capital of imperial China, only to change in the last few centuries of imperial rule as the northern tribes invaded . To settle the instability in the north, the capital moved to Beijing. I don't think China went through the dramatic rise and fall of its big cities the way Europeans went through.


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## freeksregistration

most historic city?? bruges


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## ovem

athens, rome and istanbul (Byzantium these times) used to be the main powers of civilization, science and culture in the western civilization. also egypt used to be a super power in ancient years. the eastern civilization had no connection to the western one. they didnt even know about the existence of each other. i believ that athens is the most historical city cause its the mother of writing, theater, and democracy! 
this is the first theater in the western world ever, and its located in the center of athens, under the acropolis. here you are. the dionysos theater: 









btw... athens today is the city with the biggest nuber of theater stages in europe (i'm not sure about the world, so i ll say europe) with more than 150 theaters and more than 200 play per year.

i vote for athens  :banana:


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## ovem

Wuppeltje said:


> I would say Rome.
> 
> Rome had and still has so many influence on western societies. Many western figures in the past wanted to have a little bit of the old glory of the Roman Empire. A lot of famous buildings in western countries are influenced by old buildings in Rome.
> For example, the people of Amsterdam gave their townhall in their Golden Age a Rome feel, especially on the inside.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rome not only had the Roman Empire, but also had and still has the Vatican. Especially in the middle ages this was a very influential and powerful institution.
> 
> There are a lot of other historical cities, but none of them come really close the Rome. Asian cities had a lot of regional influence and still have, but I don't sense a lot of influence of Chinese cities towards Japan or India. For me buildings such as the United States Capitol says a lot of the influence of the old Rome. It is easy to spot something directly to Rome in many countries, while this less direct with other historical cities.
> 
> On other parts Rome might be less different with other historical cities, but on every aspect it can compared with the best.


rome is openly influented if not just based on the greek civilization


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## Grumpey

old history is not better than modern history

therefore:

- Amsterdam 
- Berlin
- Venice


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## ovem

yes you are right but the whole history is absolutely based on the older one


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## freeksregistration

Grumpey said:


> old history is not better than modern history
> 
> therefore:
> 
> - Amsterdam
> - Berlin
> - Venice


you sure need to travel more! (berlin??)

-rome, bruges,brussels, praghue, ghent, athens, venice, lille...


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## Mahratta

^^ Bruges? Ghent?

:rofl:


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## Federicoft

ovem said:


> rome is openly influented if not just based on the greek civilization


Very true, in fact I can't decide between Rome and Athens. 
But what the Romans did, it was accepting the Greek culture as a part of their culture, and spreading it into Europe.

I think Rome and Athens represent basically the same civilization.


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## KoolKeatz

*Damascus, Jerusalem, Athens, Rome*


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## [email protected]

Rome, just because it has remained internationally influential up to the present day, paired with it's rich history


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## freeksregistration

MaitreyaSequeira said:


> ^^ Bruges? Ghent?
> 
> :rofl:


hahahahaha MUMBAI guy, you are sure NOT traveling 

Bruges: VENICE of the north, it's all from the middle ages
THE HOLE OLD CITY IS PROTECTED BY UNESCO


(a very little exapmle)
ghent the same:


my advice to you:
do some research before you post something:cheers:


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## KoolKeatz

freeksregistration said:


> it's all from the middle ages


...which isn´t old compared with Damascus, Jerusalem, Athens, Rome and many other ancient citys.


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## freeksregistration

KoolKeatz said:


> ...which isn´t old compared with Damascus, Jerusalem, Athens, Rome and many other ancient citys.



damascus(??) maybe not that old as rome, buth this topic is about "most historical city" = a city that hasn't much changed in the 21 century, 
this is not the "oldest city of the world" topic


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## Mahratta

freeksregistration said:


> hahahahaha MUMBAI guy, you are sure NOT traveling
> 
> my advice to you:
> do some research before you post something:cheers:


Firstly - I am a TORONTO guy, I live in Toronto.

Nice argument. Pass off anyone who criticizes your petty nationalism as 'untraveled.'
Dude, I have lived in Belgium (Ekeren. which is from the 1100s, btw) and I can tell you that the only Belgian city I can consider being considerable is Brussels / Bruxelles. 



> damascus(??) maybe not that old as rome, buth this topic is about "most historical city" = a city that hasn't much changed in the 21 century,
> this is not the "oldest city of the world" topic


No, the topic is about the city with *the most historical significance / historical areas*. You don't think Damascus is historical? Why? Because it isn't in Europe? 

Leave your damn country and visit the world - or maybe leave your damn closed mental space and think about other parts of the world - maybe Middle East, Africa, or Asia?

I can tell you that cities like Bruges are a dime a dozen all around Europe, India, China, Iran, etc. The UNESCO World heritage sites need a big remake - probably compiled by a whole bunch of folks like you with a few 'Orientalists' thrown in for good measure.

My list - a few for each sphere of influence, I can't mix apples with oranges

*Eurosphere* - Rome, Athens, Istanbul / Constantinople, Paris, Moscow, London, Grenada
*Islamosphere* - Baghdad, Cairo, Damascus, Jerusalem, Mekkah, Istanbul / Constantinople
*Persosphere* - Samarqand, Tehran, Isfahan, Kabul, Fars Province (Shiraz, Persepolis)
*Indosphere* - Delhi, Benares, Angkor, Ayathuyya, Patna (Pataliputra), Lucknow, Lahore 
*Sinosphere* - Beijing, Kyoto, X'ian, Chengdu, Hangzhou, Nanjing, Kaifeng


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## freeksregistration

I live in belgium for only 8 years, 
first of all bruges is older then Brussels, and what are you saying, there are a dozen cities like bruges, oh yes that's why there that many tourists, because they can choose between a dozen cities that all are simular, and there are also a dozen amsterdam's and venices..... the list of unesco is fine, about damascus your wright ( mistake), I'm not a nationalist buth when you visiting bruges, ghent ..what ever it's unic ( also cities out of europ), you think only cities as old as rome, beijing.... are historical?? so a city of 1000years isn't historical. me? a orientalists?? ha! like what ever..


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## Mahratta

freeksregistration said:


> I live in belgium for only 8 years,
> first of all bruges is older then Brussels, and what are you saying, there are a dozen cities like bruges, oh yes that's why there that many tourists, because they can choose between a dozen cities that all are simular, and there are also a dozen amsterdam's and venices..... the list of unesco is fine, about damascus your wright ( mistake), I'm not a nationalist buth when you visiting bruges, ghent ..what ever it's unic ( also cities out of europ), you think only cities as old as rome, beijing.... are historical?? so a city of 1000years isn't historical. me? a orientalists?? ha! like what ever..


You seem to be misunderstanding. I don't care about age, but Brussels has held far more historical significance than Bruges, and has a fair bit more historical testament and structures in it. There are dozens of cities like Bruges, I didn't say in Belgium but go to countries in Europe like Italy, France, Germany, etc., and I'm not even going to talk about the Middle East, India, China etc.

I never said you were an orientalist, I said the UNESCO list was compiled by a group of folks like you AND a bunch of 'orientalists'.


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## kosimodo

freeksregistration said:


> Bruges: VENICE of the north, it's all from the middle ages
> THE HOLE OLD CITY IS PROTECTED BY UNESCO


It is very nice Brugge, but most of the city is not really old. It just looks old..... and is built in the 18th century.. 

Which is not really old


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## freeksregistration

hmm i think you can not compare a italian city as pisa or..... with a city like bruges. (i'm not saying bruges is better the're just different) it's like compare brussels with praghue or something.
I really think bruges is important as a monument, I also know there are much more important things, buth it's the density, not a single modern building (accept the theater)
yes there are also very nice buildings, cities in the world better then bruges what ever.
I'm still saying Bruges is a one of a kind, because it's so athentic (?) I think you are wrong about saying there are a dozen bruges in europ. that's like saying there are a dozen venices, those are my thougths, ...end


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## Grumpey

There is really too much focus on the age of the history. If something happened two centuries ago, it is as worthfull as a pile of stones from BC. It is more the way it is represented imo, and the way how it is preserved/integrated in modern society. 
A city like Brugge is not unique, it is nice, but just not unique. Venice is for instance unique. And Brugges just calls themselves the Venice of the North, like Amsterdam does (I my opinion even better). I haven't been to Asia, so I can't really judge their cities. 

Another critic on some reactions in this topic would be that some people tend to focus on big cities. If the city is not big nowadays, it would probably have no significant history anymore. I hear a lot of London/Athens...
In my opinion, Athens is still one of the cities with the most air pollution and London the city with the most destroyed old buildings ever. I just hope that these cities are not the best representatives of a 'most historic city', that would be horrible.


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## AAL

Grumpey said:


> There is really too much focus on the age of the history. If something happened two centuries ago, it is as worthfull as a pile of stones from BC. It is more the way it is represented imo, and the way how it is preserved/integrated in modern society.
> A city like Brugge is not unique, it is nice, but just not unique. Venice is for instance unique. And Brugges just calls themselves the Venice of the North, like Amsterdam does (I my opinion even better). I haven't been to Asia, so I can't really judge their cities.
> 
> Another critic on some reactions in this topic would be that some people tend to focus on big cities. If the city is not big nowadays, it would probably have no significant history anymore. I hear a lot of London/Athens...
> In my opinion, Athens is still one of the cities with the most air pollution and London the city with the most destroyed old buildings ever. I just hope that these cities are not the best representatives of a 'most historic city', that would be horrible.


Athens is not so polluted anymore, we are not in the 1980's.

But as an Athenian who has lived in London for many years, I believe that Athens may be the city with the most destroyed old buildings ever! At least proportionally. We are talking about thousands of neoclassical houses wiped out, a few of them by the war but most of them by the post-war building boom. Of course London is bigger, so maybe in absolute numbers it has lost more buildings, I don't know.
I think Berlin is good rival for that title, too!


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## Masters At Work

Athens, Rome , Jerusalem, Alexandrie


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## persian

MaitreyaSequeira said:


> No, the topic is about the city with *the most historical significance / historical areas*. You don't think Damascus is historical? Why? Because it isn't in Europe?
> 
> Leave your damn country and visit the world - or maybe leave your damn closed mental space and think about other parts of the world - maybe Middle East, Africa, or Asia?
> 
> I can tell you that cities like Bruges are a dime a dozen all around Europe, India, China, Iran, etc. The UNESCO World heritage sites need a big remake - probably compiled by a whole bunch of folks like you with a few 'Orientalists' thrown in for good measure.
> 
> My list - a few for each sphere of influence, I can't mix apples with oranges
> 
> *Eurosphere* - Rome, Athens, Istanbul / Constantinople, Paris, Moscow, London, Grenada
> *Islamosphere* - Baghdad, Cairo, Damascus, Jerusalem, Mekkah, Istanbul / Constantinople
> *Persosphere* - Samarqand, Tehran, Isfahan, Kabul, Fars Province (Shiraz, Persepolis)
> *Indosphere* - Delhi, Benares, Angkor, Ayathuyya, Patna (Pataliputra), Lucknow, Lahore
> *Sinosphere* - Beijing, Kyoto, X'ian, Chengdu, Hangzhou, Nanjing, Kaifeng


kay:


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## croomm

hei guys what with you???
Muhosransk of course


----------



## Skyline_FFM

Jericho, Jerusalem, Gizeh (the Pyramids), some other cities in the Middle East...


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## Kaiser

Vienna, Kyoto, Rome


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## Hindustani

In NO particular order

Delhi, Damascus, Rome, Athens, London, Cairo, Istanbul, Beijing, Agra, Baghdad, Samarkand, Casablanca, Mecca, Medina, Ayodhya, Alexandria, Paris, Lhasa, Isfahan, Persapolis, Jerusalum, ........


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## MPC_PT

Lisbon, Oporto and Athens


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## Mahratta

MPC_PT said:


> Lisbon, Oporto and Athens


Er..why are two in Portugal?


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## ruben.briosa

Rome, Lisbon and Athens.


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## Skyline_FFM

MaitreyaSequeira said:


> Er..why are two in Portugal?


Because some people are biased and ignore the ancient 4.000 to 5.000 year old culture of the Middle Eastern and Asian countires! hno:


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## bolo-ju

Toledo (Spain)
1º prehistoric people
2º romans
3ºvisigothics (capital city)
4ºmuslims 
5ºChirstians:
-Catholics kings (capital citY)
-Spanish empire, Charles V Emperor (Capital city)
etc...


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## Skyline_FFM

-Jericho, was founded around 8,500 before Christ, had the first city walls around 8,000.

-Çatalhöyük, today's Turkey was founded around 7,500 BC, had it's flowering time around 6,000 BC and had 10,000 inhabitants.

Mentioning Spain, I would rather say Cádiz, not Toledo since Cádiz was already a strong settlement in Phoenician times!


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## roberto0qs

Hi! I invite to visit my signature's thread!


----------



## l'eau

Istanbul of course!


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## romanyo

How do you know which city is more or less historic?? :lol:

I supose you are ranking the oldest cities


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## Skyline_FFM

Nope. I am sure there has more history taken place in Asia Minor and the whole Middle East than in most parts of Europe (except perhaps Greece)... Look how much high culture there was in that region when Europe had nothing spectacular to offer yet.


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## Pincio

In Europe, Rome by far. Historical and archaeological monuments are everywhere.
Roman monuments: Colosseum, Pantheon, St. Angel Castle, Theatre of Marcellus, Constantine Arch, Trajan Markets, Basilica of Constantine and Massentius, Baths of Caracalla, the Roman Walls, Ara Pacis...
Archaeological sites: The Roman Forum, the Palatine Hill, the Appian Way, the Catacombs...
Rome is the city with the greatest number of egyptian obelisks in the world (13).


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## Mahratta

I don't think there can be a single most historic city in the world, since there were so many unique cultures developing individually. However, I agree when people say that Rome is the most historic in Europe. I would nominate Istanbul as well. Check out my list, it's a few pages back. I organised it into different spheres, because judging it any other way is like comparing apples to oranges.


----------



## pippopotam0

*Rome*
-> Absolutely <-​


----------



## arun'

1. Rome Italy
2. Athens Greece
3. Jerusalem Israel
4. Damascus Syria
5. Varanasi India


----------



## Skyline_FFM

These are already five reasonable candidates!


----------



## l'eau

edit.


----------



## l'eau

romanyo said:


> How do you know which city is more or less historic?? :lol:
> 
> I supose you are ranking the oldest cities


yes i do.


----------



## isaidso

Damascus, Syria
Susa, Iran


----------



## Fede_Milan

ROMA

Deal with it.


----------



## the spliff fairy

Xian 3100 years of history, twice the worlds largest city and the eastern counterpart to Rome and its empire. The ancient city of Chang'an had the largest palaces in history, each 3.5, 6,and 7.5x the Forbidden City in Beijing. It still has its ancient walls and temples, and of course its world famous 2000 year old tombs (the terracotta army, which will take another 50 years to excavate, in addition to the 30 years already), is only one of 700 tomb sites in the area. The largest is still yet to be even probed. The city's historical sites will never be excavated in our lifetime.


The other city in the East with a good stab at the title is Kyoto, dating from 800AD (though quite recent by East Asian standards) but with no less than 3000 ancient temples and shrines.


----------



## the spliff fairy

However the one city that I have to say is the most historic is *Damascus*, the worlds oldest city (already ancient by the time the Egyptians began on the pyramids). Its bloody 8000 years old and full of old buildings, masses of archaeology alongside one of the worlds largest Old City's.






It was continuously inhabited as a major trading port till the the *Aramaean* takeover (who built the canal system), then the *Mesopotamians* who fought off the Egyptians, Assyrians and Israelites, then the *Babylonians*, and millennia later the *Persians*. It declined under Akexander (of the *Greeks*) but reasserted itself under the *Romans*, then the *Nabataeans* (who ruled from Petra), then the *Romans* again. It established itself on the caravan routes from Petra, Palmyra and Arabia aswell as the convergence of the fabled Silk Route from China, whilst operating under the Roman province of *Syria*, and later *Byzantine*, becoming the birthplace of several popes. It was conquered by the Muslims under the *Ummayad* Empire which stretched from Spain to India. It fell to the *Abbasid* Caliphate that ruled from Baghdad, becoming the capital for a short period as the capital was being transferred to Samarra.

Right, all this and the date is still only 858 AD.


Shortly after the *Egyptians* took the city, but it was reclaimed back years later, only to fall once again, this time into the hands of the *Hamdanids.* In turn it fell (twice) to the *Qaramita.* The *Fatimids* of the Cairene Caliphate finally took the city ushering a period when the Berbers fought off the Bedouins, Ottomans and Qaramita, losing out to a brief period of *self rule*, before falling to the *Fatimids* once more, this time from the *Ottoman Caliphate*, who restored the city's prosperity, and instated a more Islamic streetplan of narrow lanes and harat enclosures. When the *Seljuk Turks* took the city it became a capital once more of independent states, only to be overtaken by another Turkic Dynasty, the *Burid Emirs*, who valiantly fought off the first of the Crusaders from Europe. It fell instead to the *Zengids *of Aleppo, the great enemy of the Crusaders, who made it their capital. On the death of the Zengid dynasty the city was acquired by Saladin of *Egypt*, who made it his capital too, quickly drawing the 'youth from round the world' to its areas of study and seclusion. After Saladins death it was wrested between the *Uyyabids*, falling to 8 different rulers over the years, and under siege from Crusaders once again. However it was lost instead to a huge empire from the Far East. The year is 1260, the *Mongols* had only just arrived.

After the withdrawal of the Mongols the *Mamluk* Empire took over, based from Egypt. It was at this time the city fell to Timur of the *Turco-Mongols*, going through its most harrowing ordeal. Its artisans and luckier inhabitants were taken to their capital in Samarqand (present day Uzbekistan) as slaves, whilst the city was sacked and a vast pyramid of heads made outside its walls. After the devastation the *Mamluks* retook and rebuilt the city, making it a provincial capital. It fell once again to the *Ottoman Turks* on their conquest to Egypt a century later, defending off a Persian Saffavid and Mamluk alliance aswell as from the Porte for the following 400 years. It was a city eyed for its importance as the start of the Hajj caravans to Meccah, falling briefly to the Pasha of *Egypt*.


It is now 1918, the Arab Revolt along with British help sees off the Ottomans and a *Kingdom of Syria* is declared, only to fall two years later (with a secret pact with Britain) to the *French*. In 1925 the French brutally suppressed the Druze forces, burning down part of the city, again bombing it in 1945 under Vichy France (French forces operating under German conquest) after the *Allied Forces* briefly took it over. In 1946 the *Syrian Arab Republic* was proclaimed.


----------



## HKG

the spliff fairy said:


> Xian 3100 years of history, twice the worlds largest city and the eastern counterpart to Rome and its empire. The ancient city of Chang'an had the largest palaces in history, each 3.5, 6,and 7.5x the Forbidden City in Beijing. It still has its ancient walls and temples, and of course its world famous 2000 year old tombs (the terracotta army, which will take another 50 years to excavate, in addition to the 30 years already), is only one of 700 tomb sites in the area. The largest is still yet to be even probed. The city's historical sites will never be excavated in our lifetime


Its Xi' an.


----------



## Skyline_FFM

Fede_Milan said:


> ROMA
> 
> Deal with it.


Why? There were other cities and cultures in Middle East, East Asia, Africa and Central America who already had high culture, when Rome was still an unknown little village (IF it was a village)!


----------



## ovem

^^ agree... China or Egypt for example had civilization 2000 years before the Roman empire.


----------



## the spliff fairy

Damascus is 8000 years old, already an ancient 2500 year old city when the Egyptians were building the Pyramids.

Ruled by the:

Aramaeans 
Mesopotamians 
Babylonians
Persians
Greeks
Romans
Nabataeans
Romans again
Ummayads 
Abbasids
Hamdanids
the Qaramita.
Cairene Fatimids
self rule
Ottoman Fatimids 
Seljuk Turks 
Burid Emirs
Zengids
Saladin of Egypt
Uyyabids
Mongols 
Mamluks 
Turco-Mongols
Mamluks 
Ottoman Turks 
Pasha of Egypt.
Kingdom of Syria 
French
Vichy French
Allied Forces 
Syrian Arab Republic


----------



## baracuda79

Athens, Rome, Xi'an, Cairo


----------



## alentejolover

The city of Évora in Portugal...:cheers:

It has a Roman Temple...


----------



## erbse

Why not Povoa de Varzim?


----------



## Mahratta

erbsenzaehler said:


> Why not Povoa de Varzim?


+1


----------



## oldirty718

^^ Obviously, you have no clue what you are talking about. I suggest that you check 
this thread's title once again, then come back with some better arguments. This thread 
is about the "most" historic cities. Spanish cities might be historic, but surely they are 
not among the "most" historic cities, nor New York or London, (As you said in your other 
post (in which by the way you did not even mention Athens). I'm sorry, but this just 
proves how ignorant you are, when it comes to history hno: When Athens was founded 
and inhabited, Rome did not even exist, because it was founded *17 Centuries* later.

Here, get your facts straight:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athens
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Athens

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Rome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Europe

You'll soon realise that when it comes to *European* history,
It always goes like this: 
First: Greece
Later: Rome

Even the word "Europe" is Greek :lol:


----------



## manob

Athens is your city. Ok. But it's not the most historic city if you like or if not.

Rome is the most historic city, not any other.


----------



## oldirty718

^^

You don't seem to understand anything I said hno:
I even posted some official *FACTS * to help you out,
but it seems they didn't help you at all! hno: Anyway, 
lo que tu digas amigo, I'm not gonna be the one to educate 
you here :lol: Buenas noches!


----------



## Ribarca

Rome hands down.

Athens deserves to be mentioned but visibly there is little left of that history. The same goes for most of the Chinese cities (Xi'an or Beijing) for example.

My own village is celebrating its 100th Birtday today named after our queen Juliana:banana:. In contrast to other in this thread I won't nominate my own village:lol:.


----------



## oldirty718

Concerning European History: Athens wins, hands down.

I've proved my point in previous posts, with official historical data, you can check them out. Case closed.

Cheers! :cheers:


----------



## Federicoft

Most historic doesn't mean 'oldest', Sherlock.

The very fact you are busy defending the honour of your city arguing against people from all over the world speaks for itself. Gotta love SSC. :lol:


----------



## oldirty718

^^

Most historic, or oldest, it doesn't matter, because in Europe, Athens is both the oldest and most historic city. (History: from Greek ἱστορία (historia). I'm not the one saying all these stuff, there are some official historical facts which you can find out by yourself, and that's ALL I do here, post some good old *FACTS.* 

On the other hand, historically, Rome just *looks* far more *impressive* than Athens, but history is not all about the "looks". 
But then again "The architecture of ancient Rome adopted the external architecture of ancient Greece", and the first Athenian structure (The Parthenon (from Greek: Παρθενών)) was built some *6 Centuries before* the first Roman structure ever built (The Pantheon (from Greek: Πάνθειον, meaning "Every god") :bowtie:

Here ya go  :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Athens
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Rome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Europe


----------



## antigoon99

oldirty718 said:


> ^^
> 
> Most historic, or oldest, it doesn't matter, because in Europe, Athens is both the oldest and most historic city. (History: from Greek ἱστορία (historia). I'm not the one saying all these stuff, there are some official historical facts which you can find out by yourself, and that's ALL I do here, post some good old *FACTS.*
> 
> On the other hand, historically, Rome just *looks* far more *impressive* than Athens, but history is not all about the "looks".
> But then again "The architecture of ancient Rome adopted the external architecture of ancient Greece", and the first Athenian structure (The Parthenon (from Greek: Παρθενών)) was built some *6 Centuries before* the first Roman structure ever built (The Pantheon (from Greek: Πάνθειον, meaning "Every god") :bowtie:
> 
> Here ya go  :
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Athens
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Rome
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Europe


^^Athens is one of the most important citys in European and Global history, an indeed many things of Rome and the Romans where recyceld from the old Greece, things "The architecture" as you say isn't only from Athens but from the hole of the greek acient world...and that "athen architecture again was inspirated by another...

But in the end i think that Rome just is a bit more important in history during the Roman Republic, the Roman Empire, Italy, the Pope, for hundreds of years Rome was the center of the (western) world, 25% of the people lived in the Roman Empire (of the known world)...

And still today Rome is an important city...capital of Italy, the pope...


----------



## balthazar

what a nice fight!:lol::lol::lol:
i think is not so easy to decide if one city is more historical than another, 
but 
Roman architecture is characterized by use of arch and concrete, greeks didn't use them, so, even if is true that roman culture whas influenced by greeks, in engineering, and pantheon is a perfect example, romans had a wider skill.
Then Pantheon is the oldest building in Rome wich is arrived since now almost untouched, but even coliseum is older, even just of few decades. Rome has a lot of old ruins and works of art even older, and it's very probable that is history as a small village started a few century before the date of birth, wich is a myth.
Athens in Hystory lost its preeminence after being defighted by Sparta and begun a slow decadence even since the Hellenistic period, from then the most important cities of greek culture where others, Like Alexandria. And even in the classical period Athens was a cultural center for the greek world but it never was its only capital.

Rome, after the fall, remained the center of christian western europe and so it mantained a certain prominence, like during renaissance as an artistic centre. 

And then, between east asia,india, middle east... i think there are a lot of cities who could struggle, for the title of most hystoric...


----------



## Pompey77

Federicoft said:


> Most historic doesn't mean 'oldest', Sherlock.


What the hell does it mean then?


----------



## Federicoft

Pompey77 said:


> What the hell does it mean then?


Obviously it's quality that should be considered, not quantity i.e. cities that played the greatest role in shaping human history.


----------



## manob

Pompey77 said:


> What the hell does it mean then?


The city which more affected the history.


----------



## Federicoft

oldirty718 said:


> ^^
> 
> Most historic, or oldest, it doesn't matter, because in Europe, Athens is both the oldest and most historic city. (History: from Greek ἱστορία (historia). I'm not the one saying all these stuff, there are some official historical facts which you can find out by yourself, and that's ALL I do here, post some good old *FACTS.*
> 
> On the other hand, historically, Rome just *looks* far more *impressive* than Athens, but history is not all about the "looks".
> But then again "The architecture of ancient Rome adopted the external architecture of ancient Greece", and the first Athenian structure (The Parthenon (from Greek: Παρθενών)) was built some *6 Centuries before* the first Roman structure ever built (The Pantheon (from Greek: Πάνθειον, meaning "Every god") :bowtie:
> 
> Here ya go  :
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Athens
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Rome
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Europe


Yeah, it just happens to "look" impressive, there isn't any history behind those buildings. :lol:

Why don't you actually read the links you provided?

Do you know by any chance that Rome has been for centuries the centre of the two most important and influential institution in the history of Western civilization, i.e. the Roman Empire and the Church?


----------



## oldirty718

Just read the history of Europe dudes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Europe

Just google the phrase: "Cradle Of Western Civilization"

You'll soon realize that regarding European history, Ancient Greece will always be first mentioned, then Ancient Rome. Even if you like it or not :lol:

I'm sure most of you don't even know what the words: Europe, Parthenon, Pantheon, or even Rome mean. I know cause they're all Greek words 

When Athens was founded, Rome did not even exist. Case closed, I'm out :cheers:


----------



## Federicoft

It's like the fifth time you say case closed, but each time someone doesn't mention Athens as their first choice you unfailingly go mad. :lol: 
Good luck with your struggle, for what I am concerned there's no point in debating the obvious.


----------



## antigoon99

oldirty718 said:


> Just read the history of Europe dudes:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Europe
> 
> Just google the phrase: "Cradle Of Western Civilization"
> 
> You'll soon realize that regarding European history, Ancient Greece will always be first mentioned, then Ancient Rome. Even if you like it or not :lol:
> 
> I'm sure most of you don't even know what the words: Europe, Parthenon, Pantheon, or even Rome mean. I know cause they're all Greek words
> 
> When Athens was founded, Rome did not even exist. Case closed, I'm out :cheers:


^^yes, so the Flinstonens were there before the greek...so they have the most historic city, case closed


----------



## oldirty718

^^ Who is talking about Pre-Historic, or Dark Age period? :lol: :lol: During these periods, people were all the same, all over the world. Painting funny stuff in caves, and acting weird. :lol: We are talking about the first Civilization in Europe, we are talking about when, and how the values that define "Western Civilization" and Europe (as it is today) were born.




Federicoft said:


> It's like the fifth time you say case closed, but each time someone doesn't mention Athens as their first choice you unfailingly go mad. :lol:


Did I said "case closed" only five times? You sure you counted them right? I'm about to say it once more, for the sixth time: Case closed. :lol: I'm just trying to help ignorant people (who don't even mention Athens as a historic city), to get to know a little bit more of Europe's history. Peace


----------



## thekh

Angkor, Cambodia has over 100 ancient stone temples. It had been the largest preindustrial city in the world between ninth century to the fifteenth century A.D. The size is 3000 km2. It's also the largest archaeological site in the world.
Drawing map:








From space:








Video:






















Some pics of the temple in Angkor:


----------



## Adrian12345Lugo

oldirty718 said:


> ^^ Who is talking about Pre-Historic, or Dark Age period? :lol: :lol: *During these periods, people were all the same, all over the world. Painting funny stuff in caves, and acting weird*. :lol: We are talking about the first Civilization in Europe, we are talking about when, and how the values that define "Western Civilization" and Europe (as it is today) were born.


ugh :?:?not all over the world ......maybe just in europe


----------



## oldirty718

^^The Prehistoric period (has nothing to do with classical antiquity) 
was actually a huge one, which started millions of years ago, where the 
first human-like beings inhabited the Earth.










These human fellas firstly appeared in Africa, and then in Europe and Asia. 
Not sure if any of the other places on Earth had ever been inhabited by 
them during that period. :shifty:


----------



## oliver999

xi'an must be one of them.
capital of 20 dynasties.
capital of west zhou dynasty:3100years ago--2700 years ago. 
three times of chinese greatest empire: qin dynasty(about 2300 years ago), west han dynasty(about 2200 years ago),tang dynasty(1200 years ago)
and xi'an is the first city which population reachs 1 million worldwide.
under the xi'an's ground, there are ancient things all over. 

another city, luoyang, is another great histrical city, along with xi'an


----------



## Guest

krkseg1ops said:


> I hate to rain on your parade but are you suggesting that Moscow and Beijing are simple cities? Have you ever been to those places? For me, Moscow is by far the greatest city in whole Europe, both historical and modern. Moscow(and Beijing) has gone through so many periods that cities like NYC can only wish they had more than 200 years of British, French, and Irish legacy. If anything, *NYC is a copy of other cities,* not the other way around. And what values you speak of that had been adopted from Athens and/or Rome? It's utter rubbish.
> I agree with you on the Rome/Athens choice, though. These are truly magnificent and magical places


I do not believe any city is a historical copy of another. NYC is a blend of all cultures from around the world, which brought a unique historical past to NYC. NYC is far from copying any other city. hno:


----------



## italiano_pellicano

Roma


----------



## flyinfishjoe

"Most historic" is impossible to say, but here are a couple in no order: Istanbul, Mexico City, Cuzco, Rome, Delhi, Samarkand, Varanasi, Alexandria, Timbuktu.


----------



## italiano_pellicano

Rome is the most historic city in the world


----------



## The Great Sarlacc

Forza Raalte said:


> How can a city be the MOST historical.
> 
> Every city got their history


This reply on the very first page tells it all. The question should have been: 'What city was of most historical importance?' and not: 'What's the most 'historical' city. Because the city with the most history (c.q. the oldest still existing city) can be the only answer. And that must be a city somewhere in Iran, Iraq or Jemen.


----------



## the spliff fairy

^Damascus, worlds oldest city


----------



## BG_PATRIOT

In terms of historic cities. Prague takes the first place for me. I just love walking around the old district of the city, it has this mystical vibe to it. :cheers:


----------



## flyinfishjoe

Delhi.


----------



## ajaaronjoe

gotta be London


----------



## potiz81

ajaaronjoe said:


> gotta be London


:nuts::nuts::nuts:


----------



## The Cake On BBQ

Athens is "historic" ? LOL, any city even in America probably have more historic (150+ years old) buildings then Athens. Yes Athens is an OLD city, but not historic. 
Anyways, I'll go for Rome.


----------



## High Way

Rome, the only historic city in the world.


----------



## potiz81

The Cake On BBQ said:


> Athens is "historic" ? LOL, any city even in America probably have more historic (150+ years old) buildings then Athens. Yes Athens is an OLD city, but not historic.
> Anyways, I'll go for Rome.


Sure, unlike Athens, American cities are very well known for their 5th century B.C. buildings and temples!:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Berlinerin

- for the early history - Rome

- for recent history - Berlin


----------



## leo_mp

1. Rome
2. Berlin
3. Madrid
4. Mexico D.F
5.Cusco
These cities are fantastic, have contributed in different ways, the magic and the advance of history at high levels.


----------



## potiz81

leo_mp said:


> 1. Rome
> 2. Berlin
> 3. Madrid
> 4. Mexico D.F
> 5.Cusco
> These cities are fantastic, have contributed in different ways, the magic and the advance of history at high levels.


I really tried hard but at the end found it impossible to see how Mexico and Cusco contributed in high levels in world's history, more than other cities, as Athens, Istanbul or Alexandria did...
And as for Berlin, my mind goes immediately to some "black" pages of the history..


----------



## ajaaronjoe

potiz81 said:


> :nuts::nuts::nuts:



I meant to say that London was awarded as Cultural capital of the world.


----------



## Remolino

potiz81 said:


> I really tried hard but at the end found it impossible to see how Mexico and Cusco contributed in high levels in world's history, more than other cities, as Athens, Istanbul or Alexandria did...
> And as for Berlin, my mind goes immediately to some "black" pages of the history..


Really it was the City of Potosi in Bolivia and the Mexican cities of Guanajuato and Zacatecas which contributed highly to the history of the world. Potosi had a mountain made of Silver while the two Mexican cities had Silver mines.

Spain became rich overnight. Most of that Silver made its way to other nations in Europe and China which benefited those nations and the world economy. 



> For three centuries, Imperial Spain mined enormous quantities of metallic ore from its American domains, particularly from the huge silver deposits of Mexico and Peru. Spanish silver mining remade the economy of the Old World and did much to create that of the New; it furthered a healthy growth in mining technology, and its infrastructure proved vital to the Latin American nations after they won independence. Despite its dark aspects, the Spanish enterprise helped make the modern world possible


Potosi was part of the Viceroyalty of Peru during those times. 



> in 1545, a humble Indian shepherd stumbled across the most fabulous silver lode the world has ever known: the Cerro Rico de Potosí. An entire mountain seemed to be made out of silver! The silver mines of what soon became the largest city in the New World, with over 100,000 inhabitants at the end of the seventeenth century, were the source of endless riches that helped Spain create and expand its empire in the New World, as well as in Europe. *Without Potosí, and the riches it produced, the history of Europe and the history of the world would be vastly different*.





> Around two billion ounces of silver were extracted from the Bolivian city of Potosí’s Cerro Rico (Rich Mountain) during the Spanish colonial era. Its silver paved the city’s streets, *fuelled the European Renaissance *and helped fund the “Invincible Armada,” the Spanish fleet that sailed against Elizabethan England in 1588. Indeed, the mining area of Potosí was regarded as the world’s largest industrial complex in the 16th century.


Chinese and US used Spanish Silver dollars which most likely came from the Silver mines located in the cities of Guanajuato and Zacatecas in Mexico.



> Spanish silver specie ( originally Peruvian and Mexican in the 16th century, then mostly Mexican Zacatecas after the Bourbon reforms of the 18th ) was one of the great engines that drove the East Asian trade. Indeed the Europeans found it pretty alarming how fast China sucked up silver, as they literally produced next to nothing else China ( a quite self-sufficient economic collosus to which even foreign trade was a pittance compared to internal revenues ) wanted in trade. It is estimated that of 400 million silver dollars imported into from South America and Mexico into Europe between 1571 and 1821 half was used for the purchase of Chinese products by the western countries. No one profited more from the discovery of Am,erica than China. Buoyed by trade imports and increased internal mining, silver became genralized in China for all financial transactions from the 16th century until the early 20th.





> Before the American Revolution, owing to British mercantilist policies, there was a chronic shortage of British currency in Britain's colonies. Trade was often conducted with Spanish dollars that had been obtained through illicit trade with the West Indies. Spanish coinage was legal tender in the United States until an Act of Congress discontinued the practice in 1857


City of Potosi and Cerro Rico the famous mountain made of Silver


----------



## Dukecz

Prague
Venice
Rome
Paris
Wien
Budapest


----------



## hypnotoad

The Cake On BBQ said:


> Athens is "historic" ? LOL, any city even in America probably have more historic
> (150+ years old) buildings then Athens. Yes Athens is an OLD city, but not historic.


lol, what an idiotic statement. Athens is one of the oldest named cities in the world, 
having been continuously inhabited for at least 7000 years, and its recorded history 
begins in 1400 BC. At that time, your Mongolian ancestors were still in a primitive state :yes:


----------



## Drelena

Dubai


----------



## bartjee

*Amsterdam*














































From: www.flickr.com


----------



## the spliff fairy

stunning pics of Amsterdam there


----------



## siamu maharaj

I think the only correct answer is Constantinople.


----------



## mibome

*Istanbul*



italiano_pellicano said:


> Rome is the most historic city in the world


No. NOOOO!

Istanbul is the most historic place in Europe. It has most history and culture of all cities in Europe.

It is not only full of Roman history but is also loaded with the mayor of Christian and Muslim history.

There is no other place in Europe that is so full of everything that emblematises European, Christian, Muslim, Byzantine, and Roman culture and history.

There is no other place in Europe with such an amount and diversity and scale of history!!!

No other place in Europe!!!


----------



## emrearas

damascus is the oldest cities on the planet that are still alive and kickin.... google it


----------



## mibome

emrearas said:


> damascus is the oldest cities on the planet that are still alive and kickin.... google it


Old does not necessarily mean historically valuable.

Look at me to get the proof. I am quite old but not valuable hahaha...


----------



## victoriagenral

Rome and spain are historical cities and have lot to see, Italy is also very historic have lot of old buildings , homes etc


----------



## AlienB

Rome is a very historic city i guess


----------



## italiano_pellicano

Rome


----------



## Aztecgoddess

In random order

Jerusalem
Rome
Babylon
Persepolis
Athens
Istanbul 
Mexico city


----------



## X Bomby

Rome.


----------



## OldKool

DELHI-it has seven cities from several BC to medieval and British Raj.
I know that western education is quite bias against India and Asia as a whole but still Delhi is the most historically rich city in the world.Most of the people in Old Delhi are licing like that from thousands of years.


----------



## mark12jon

Rome is the most historic city in the world. It is capital of Italy and a cosmopolitan city like no other, offering endless possibilities for taste and pleasure of any kind of tourist.


----------



## Disturbing Reality

considering their impact to the world, i think it's any of these

rome
athens
jerusalem
new york


----------



## Dimethyltryptamine

^^london?


----------



## firoz bharmal

1.Cairo is the oldest as well as historical....and of course ..
2.Mecca and Madina ,KSA
3.Jerusalem
and on....


----------



## Castor_Game

San Serenín del Monte


----------



## gabrielbabb

In Mexico City you can see lots cultures merging, the Indigenous , 15th - 18th colonial Spanish, 19th century french, 20th century modern Mexican, 20th century contemporaneous Mexican, and we have the biggest Historic Center declared human heritage in America.



















http://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/ancient/images/sw/moon-pyramid-1066219-sw.jpg

Tlatelolco, en la Ciudad de México:









Templo Mayor, en la Ciudad de México:


----------



## Disturbing Reality

one of my qualifiers for the most historic city is its contribution to the world (not merely its age)... my first 5 cities' legacy to humanity is quite obvious...

athens
rome
jerusalem
new york
london...

next 5 could be:
beijing
cairo
paris
mecca
mexico


----------



## firoz bharmal

Disturbing Reality said:


> one of my qualifiers for the most historic city is its contribution to the world (not merely its age)... my first 5 cities' legacy to humanity is quite obvious...
> 
> athens
> rome
> jerusalem
> new york
> london...
> 
> next 5 could be:
> beijing
> cairo
> paris
> mecca
> mexico


Newyork and London .....this is not historical city but cities of Industrial and modern world.....and Humanity...athens,rome were most violent history in whole world.....


----------



## Federicoft

Well-behaved nations seldom make history.


----------



## hypnotoad

^^ kay:


----------



## LordCarnal

Historic doesn't really have to mean it has lots of old buildings. You guys might be referring to "ancient cities". Historic means that a lot of significant events that concern humanity happened there.

So for me some of the historic cities would include Rome, London and Jerusalem.


..


----------



## LordCarnal

firoz bharmal said:


> Newyork and London .....this is not historical city but cities of Industrial and modern world.....and Humanity...athens,rome were most violent history in whole world.....



London is still historical because of the industrial revolution.



:cheers:


----------



## Dimethyltryptamine

firoz bharmal said:


> Newyork and London .....this is not historical city but cities of Industrial and modern world.....and Humanity...athens,rome were most violent history in whole world.....


London has a history that can be traced back 2,000 years... fair sure that's somewhat historic, no?


----------



## Disturbing Reality

firoz bharmal said:


> Newyork and London .....this is not historical city but cities of Industrial and modern world.....and Humanity...athens,rome were most violent history in whole world.....


london=industrial revolution (i hope i don't need to elaborate on this)...
new york=you don't have to look back to the age of dinosaurs, just the last 100 years is more than enough history...

you'll be surprised there are more events *relevant to the world *that happened in NYC in the past 100 years than there is in damascus for thousands of years...

the rise of athens and rome marks the dawn of the age of reason...


----------



## Spartan_X

This is a thread full of nationalistic pride, something unavoidable of course in threads like this.


----------



## Required

...


----------



## D.J.

Disturbing Reality said:


> the rise of athens and rome marks the dawn of the age of reason...


"Dawn of the age of reason" :hammer::lol:


----------



## potiz81

firoz bharmal said:


> 1.Cairo is the oldest as well as historical....and of course ..


Cairo the oldest city??? :lol::lol::lol: Some people here seem to confuse the age of the Pyramids with the actual age of the city of Cairo.
Cairo was built in in 969 A.D. by Fatimid dynasty, while Athens and Rome existed many many centuries before Cairo...so the title "oldest city" is way too far from the truth.



Dimethyltryptamine said:


> London has a history that can be traced back 2,000 years... fair sure that's somewhat historic, no?


True, but London's impact in the world doesn't count for more than the last 3 centuries.


----------



## Disturbing Reality

D.J. said:


> "Dawn of the age of reason" :hammer::lol:


as many historians would suggest. that is...
ok, frankly, it could be because of the rise of some of the greatest thoughts/ideas and philosophers from those places...



potiz81 said:


> True, but London's impact in the world doesn't count for more than the last 3 centuries.


having influenced the world in a scale that it did, that 3 centuries of london's history is greater than other older cities' contribution to humanity... what did we get from, say, damascus in its thousand-year history???


----------



## Spartan_X

As i see it, Athens should be considered the cradle of Democracy. It wasn't a democracy as we would view it to be today, since they kept Slaves, many of them in fact. But it was the first ancient state to adopt true democratic laws - Not only voted their leaders, but they also had a ( very fair, even for modern standards ) legal system, had a parliament ... 

I mean, if you see it, you must be blind not to see the seeds of a modern state in the way ancient Athenians had shaped their political and legal system. And that happened over 2000+ years ago.


----------



## potiz81

Disturbing Reality said:


> having influenced the world in a scale that it did, that 3 centuries of london's history is greater than other older cities' contribution to humanity.


I realy don't see how London's impact to humanity is bigger than Athens'...


----------



## skysurfer26

ROMA and ISTAMBUL ( CONSTANTINOPLA)

Ofcourse cities like Athens, Babylon and Persepolis where huge at its time, but right now they are lost or like Athens, not able to be as vibrant as Rome or Istambul still now a days.


----------



## hypnotoad

^^ So, Rome and Istanbul are both among the most historic cities because they 
are more vibrant than Athens today, which is a a less historic city? 

Leave the vibrant and fancy stuff out. *History* is about the studies of *past* events. 
The past is a term used to indicate the totality of events which occurred *before* a 
given point in *time*. Mentioning New York or London in such threads is absurd.
Athens the oldest and most historic city in Europe.



> Athens, capital of Greece. It is located inland near its port, Piraeus, on the
> Saronic Gulf in eastern Greece. The source of many of the West’s intellectual
> and artistic conceptions, including that of democracy, Athens is generally
> considered the birthplace of Western civilization. An ancient city-state, it
> had by the 6th century bc begun to assert its influence.


source: Athens, Greece - Encyclopedia Britannica*


----------



## Disturbing Reality

potiz81 said:


> I realy don't see how London's impact to humanity is bigger than Athens'...


i didn't say London's impact to humanity is bigger than athens'..
i was only trying to explain to one forumer that london IS a historic city. you should read my previous posts...

like this one...


Disturbing Reality said:


> one of my qualifiers for the most historic city is its contribution to the world (not merely its age)... my first 5 cities' legacy to humanity is quite obvious...
> 
> athens
> rome
> jerusalem
> new york
> london...
> 
> next 5 could be:
> beijing
> cairo
> paris
> mecca
> mexico


see! athens is even first in my list!:lol:


----------



## OldKool

1.Delhi








2.Jerusalem








3.Istanbul








4.Athens








5.Beijing


----------



## OldKool

The Indian capital city of D*elhi has a long history, including a history as the capital of several empires. The earliest architectural relics date back to the Maurya Period (c. 300 BC);* since then, the site has seen continuous settlement. In 1966, an inscription of the Mauryan Emperor Ashoka (273-236 BC) was discovered near Srinivaspuri, which is near Noida. Two sandstone pillars inscribed with the edicts of Ashoka were brought to the city by Firuz Shah Tughluq in the 14th century. The famous Iron pillar near the Qutub Minar was commissioned by the emperor Kumara Gupta I of the Gupta dynasty (320-540) and transplanted to Delhi during the 10th century. Eight major cities have been situated in the Delhi area. The first four cities were in the southern part of present-day Delhi.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Taking "most historic" in the sense of "most well-preserved from their ancient times", my own favourites are Rome, Bruges, Budapest, Girona (in Catalunya) and Nesebar (Bulgaria). Looking forward to seeing Venice, Florence, Vienna, etc...


----------



## psychedelic

I am elated to see that after 6 years of fervent debate in this thread we've come closer to realizing that, New York and London are among the most HISTORIC cities in the world. My dream is to someday see other highly populated cities such as Shanghai, Mumbai, Tokyo and Mexico city become as historic as New York and London are to today. I'd love to see more equitable distribution of history in the future. Then, finally mankind shall attain historically unprecedented utopia. :banana:


----------



## dhuwman

I nominate Los Angeles:banana::banana:


----------



## Disturbing Reality

Athens & Rome


----------



## Joyrider

Looking only at the cultural heritage of cities I'd vote for Rome and Istambul/Constantinople because of their cultural contribution to development of entire world, but other important cities are Paris, Athens or maybe Yerusalem. Why so Eurocentric? Most significant cities in Americas, Asia (without Yerusalem and Damascus) wasn't constantly cultural and political focuses of nearby regions. For example Tenochtitlan was established ca. 1325 AD so it has a real importance by less than 200 years. Earlier the real focus of these lands was Teotihuacan.


We can also recognize Jericho as the most historical city because of its age of establishment... :nuts:


----------



## safiot

Istanbul
Rome
Fes
Athens


----------



## [{x}]

Rome, Athens, Alexandria, Cairo[Memphis]. After those four, Constantinople and London. Later on, Berlin, Paris, Vienna, Madrid, Amsterdam...more recently, New York City. Non-Western honorable mentions go to Delhi and Xi'an.

Too Western-centric for you? Too bad, tell me of a non-Western city that contributed even a FRACTION of as much towards science, engineering, technology, commerce, music, fashion, literature, architecture, culture, etc. as any of those cities. I bet somebody is going to find some *relatively minor* contributions from some other non-Western civilization's cities and *ridiculously over-exaggerate* their importance.

I don't like when people complain something is "western-centric." Maybe people should just accept the West's immense contributions to humanity! I'm not sitting here and complaining that Asian cities (Hong Kong, Shanghai, Tokyo, Osaka, etc.) are obviously more futuristic and modern than Western cities...I accept it!


----------



## Clone

Antwerp, no doubt


----------



## siamu maharaj

28 pages later the answer is still Constantinople.


----------



## Clone

siamu maharaj said:


> 28 pages later the answer is still Constantinople.


Constantinopel doesn't even exist anymore. It's Istanbul. 

What is this contest even based upon? How can a city be the most historical?
When you say that that means longuest history then constantinopel is defenitly not the winner.


----------



## ВОДА

*World:* Jerusalem
*Europe:* Athens, Sofia, Rome - the reason is in the video

*Sofia - The History of Europe*


----------



## hypnotoad

^^ Well said in that video. But "experts" know better :lol:


----------



## Crash_N

This thread should have started with a definition of a "most historic city" or a set of parametres and a criteria for even entering the contest ( so we don't get local-patriotic inspired posts nominating cities like Antwerp or such ). For example:
I. its role in the foundation and rise of a particular civilisation ( Western, Chinese, Middle-eastern, Pre-columbian...) and, naturally, for how long had the city existed ( or still exists )
II. its importance and political and millitary power during the course of human history
III. its contribution to the culture of its home county and the civilisation as a whole
IV. its political importance as a centre of an empire, kingdom or other political entity 
that had or has a major impact on the course of human history
V. the amount of preserved historical buildings, monuments etc.
VI. the amount of preserved manuscripts, books and other medias on which texts of 
vital importance to the human civilisation and history are written
VII.the size of the preserved historical city quarter(s)
VIII.the lasting importance of the city as a commercial, traffic and economic center for 
a wider region ( country, subcontinent, continent, entire world )
IX. how much does the city "live" its history today, in other words, how well is the city's 
historical part integrated into the tissue of modern city
X. the amount of world-class museums in the city and the amount of artifacts from 
different civilisations and eras displayed in them
And so long and so closer...
Taking all the parametres into account, these would be my nominations:

*1. Athens *

Acropolis of Athens by B737NG, on Flickr
As the economic and cultural center of Greece since its early times, Athens represents the ancient Greek civilisation as a whole, and the entire Western civilisation is practically based on the Greek culture and Christianity. Athens was founded 3400 years ago, making it one of the oldest cities in the world, and one of the very few that continue to be vibrant metropolises today ( over 4 million inhabitants, brilliant subway sistem, hosted the Olimpics in 2004...). The Acropolis, one of the most famous landmarks in the world, is a standing proof of its impact on Greek and Western culture in general. Not to mention that Athens is the real cradle of democracy, despite the contrary claims by the relatively young United States of America.

*2. Rome*

Rome, Colysée, DSC_4713 by Patrick.Raymond, on Flickr
Founded between 8th and 6th century BC, Rome was the heart of the 17th largest empire in history, covering 6,5 million km2 with 36% of the world population at that time. It had unified Europe and the Mediterranean in a way that wasn't reaccomplished until the modern day European Union. The city had about 1,2 million inhabitants at its height, unsurpassed until the 19th century London. It was the center of the world and it established trading routes to China and India. Many monuments like the Colisseum have survived millenia to witness the glory and magnificance of Ancient Rome. The city retained its beauty through the ages and, although Rome is nowhere near its former glory and importance, it is the capital of a G-8 country and remains a globally important cultural and religious centre.

*3. Paris* 

Eiffel Tower by dvpfagan, on Flickr
Bearing the titles of "The City of Light" and "The most beautiful City in the World" ( and rightfully so ), Paris is the second largest European city ( not counting Russia ) and an alpha+ global city. No particular comments are needed to describe it, for the beauty of its boulevards, river Seine and barocque palaces adorning the city are known to the majority of the people on the planet. From a small village on the island in the middle of Seine, Paris has grown over the period of 2000 years to become the pearl of classical Western architecture, with world-famous buildings like Notre-Dame, Eiffel Tower and Louvre. The history is in the air as you sit in one of its cafes or beautiful Luxembourg gardens, admiring the grandeur of the pearl of human civilisation.

*4. London* 

Houses of Parliament by kingeorge, on Flickr
During the 2012 Olympics, London will once again, if only for 2 weeks, be undisputed capital of the world, the title it held for the entire 19th century, when London was the capital of the largest empire in history of mankind, and, with the population of 6,7 million in 1901, the largest city in the world by far. The city was founded 2000 years ago by the Romans, and Londinium still exist today, mostly in one of Londons numerous museums with countless exhibits from all over the world. London has 4 World Heritage Sites: Tower of London has been standing since Middle Ages, and the Palace of Westminster is a magnificant reminder of London at the height of its imperial domiance. Despite the damage it suffered in WW2, London still has an abundance of historical buildings, all of them well incorporated in the modern city - best example is the barocque cathedral of St. Paul rising above the city along the modern glass skyscrapers. The city is the financial capital of the world alongside New York and remains a global economic, political, commercial and transport centre.

*5. Jerusalem* 

Jerusalem, Israel by daniel-bp, on Flickr
The capital of three world religions, it is one of the oldest cities in the world by far - human settlement in the area is traced to 4th millenium BC. The city is situated in a position of priceless strategic importance, on the crossing between Asia and Africa and very close to the coast of the Mediteranean sea. The proof of its strategic siginificance and vibrant history is the fact that Jerusalem was raised to the ground twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 53 times and captured/recaptured 44 times. Because of this there aren't that many buildings of historical importance and much of the city's history lies in the history books. Its importance in international politics, trade and culture are very small today, but it's neverheless one of the cradles of Western civilisation.

*6. Beijing*

Forbidden City, Beijing by Aidan McRae Thomson, on Flickr
For millenia, Beijing has been the centre of China, the oldest civilisation on Earth. The city is a global centre of culture, education, economy and finance and features many magnificent historical buildings, of which the Forbidden City is the most famous. Unfortunately, Beijing does not leave an impression of an old historic city as much of the old buildings and city quarters were torn down by the communist government to create a modernist Utopia.

So, to conclude: there is no single "most historic" city in the world, the title is shared by several cities. 
*Athens *and *Rome * were the capitals of Ancient Greek and Roman cultures upon which the modern European/Western civilisation, represented by *London *and *Paris*, was built.
*Jerusalem *represents the mixture of Middle-eastern and Western civilisations. 
*Beijing *represents ancient Chinease civilisation packed in commie blocks and modern skyscrapers.
Why have one most historical city when we can have 6?
:cheers:

Edit:_ I removed Mexico City. The city was only listed in the first place because I didn't want to leave Americas out. After a second tought, I realised it falls behind the other cities too far to be listed. Sorry Mexicans, but bye bye Ciudad de Mexico!_


----------



## peteriralnadais

love this thread !!!


----------



## Odoaker

Rome, Athens. It were these ancient cities, where today's cultural und political standards were first imagined. A world without freedom, democracy and ionic pillars'd be a sad world.


----------



## Crash_N

*The defence of the West*

Well, I skipped 75% of the thread when I first discovered it and just read the last couple of pages before posting. Now that I've read it completly, I feel like I've lost half of my brain. This thread turned into a city-vs-city and a fest of superficial nationalism and local patriotism with endless supply of utter ignorance with a nice touch of hatred towards the West. I've read people suggesting cities unkown to practically everyone except for the chosen few that, despite probably having some old buildings, had 0 influence over the course of human history. Cheap nationalism flourished with people bashing other people's comments and simply ignoring the facts other side provided. There was a suffucient amount of brainless arguments that were essentially like "who can piss further". But the pinnacle was people from Middle-east or East Asia bashing Europeans for being "West-centric" and listing a number of "magnificent and world-important cities" from China or India. 
Well I'm here to kick ass and drink cups of tea. And I'm all out of tea.
Firstly, if you are reading this post you must be using a computer. The computer was invented in Great Britain and the USA, which are, you wouldn't believe this - WESTERN COUNTRIES! 
I've seen a post by *hkskyline*, a forum moderator who had contributed to SSC forum alot, bashing London and Western cities in general. A message for him and all others like him: your city is dominated not by pagodas, but by the f*cking skyscrapers.Guess who invented them: AMERICANS!
All of you who hate West and own an automobile: you should know that it was invented by GERMANS ( who are Westerners ).
I've seen dozens of people basically calling London a shithole. Well, if your city has a subway sistem, don't use it anymore - the first subway was constructed in LONDON ( a Western city ).
And everytime you drink antibiotics, travel by plane, drink Coca-Cola, watch TV, listen to the radio, learn chemistry or physics, use Facebook, smoke cigarettes, drink beer, wear ANYTHING that isn't kimono or Arabian clothing, watch/play football, basketball, tennis, baseball or skiing, everytime you write in English language on this forum, remember: IT COMES FROM THE WEST! 

God I feel relieved!


----------



## Odoaker

^^^

Very right, and talking about nationalism, it were again the Germans who invented the Computer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z3_(computer)

And since a majority of mankind always lived in the parts of the world today we call "eastern", eastern capitals might indeed have influenced big parts of the world, but by today's standards, the western influence is dominating.


----------



## Crash_N

Odoaker said:


> ^^^
> 
> Very right, and talking about nationalism, it were again the Germans who invented the Computer:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z3_(computer)
> 
> And since a majority of mankind always lived in the parts of the world today we call "eastern", eastern capitals might indeed have influenced big parts of the world, but by today's standards, the western influence is dominating.


My mistake, I guess when I went through that article myself I overlooked the Germans ( who created all sorts of stuff - X ray scanning, jet technology, rocket that brought Neil Armstrong to the Moon was based on German V-rockets...). But in all fairness, I don't think there's a single person responsible for modern computers, just like there isn't a single most historic city.


----------



## Odoaker

Again, a true word!


----------



## potiz81

Odoaker said:


> ^^^
> 
> Very right, and talking about nationalism, it were again the Germans who invented the Computer:


Time to pay a visit in Athens National Archaeological Museum :cheers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism


----------



## Tiaren

Depends on what "most historic" is supposed to mean.

*most historic cities=the oldest cities:*
Damascus (since 9000 BC), Byblos (since 7000 BC), Jericho (since 6800 BC)

*most historic cities=best preserved architecture:*
Too many to name. Some examplary cities coming to my mind are:
Venice, Verona, Florence, Rome, Prague, Regensburg, Bamberg... list goes on and on

*most historic cities=cities with the biggest impact on human history:*
Athens, Rome, Beijing, Jerusalem, London, Paris, Berlin, Moscow, Washington DC... list goes on here as well.


----------



## hypnotoad

^^ Fair enough, but the last type should include fewer cities IMO


----------



## Tiaren

Maybe...the last category is a pretty subjective matter... 
Some might wanna scrap Berlin or Washington DC (both pretty young compared to the others) off their list. But in my opinion (for example) Berlin had a tremendous impact on 20th century. Our recent times, but soon enough the history of tomorrow. So, for me, it has to be in the list.


----------



## Crash_N

potiz81 said:


> Time to pay a visit in Athens National Archaeological Museum
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism


Nice one
I'm well aware of the existance of old calculating machines and "computors" such as abacus. We were talking about modern computers. Meaning electrical power, buttons, monitors, software etc.


----------



## Crash_N

Tiaren said:


> Maybe...the last category is a pretty subjective matter...
> Some might wanna scrap Berlin or Washington DC (both pretty young compared to the others) off their list. But in my opinion (for example) Berlin had a tremendous impact on 20th century. Our recent times, but soon enough the history of tomorrow. So, for me, it has to be in the list.


No - London, Moscow and Washington, as the capitals of 3 WW2 Allies and the last two as the capitals of two Cold War superpowers, had impact on Berlin's history. Not vice-versa. History of Berlin in the first half of the 20th century revolves around 2 world wars, first of them being orchestrated by the British to remove their main oponent - the German Empire, and the second started by the crazy Austrian dude who held more rallies and speeches in Nurnberg. Berlin got bombed in WW2, but so did countless other cities, some of them much worse ( Tokyo FTW ).
During the cold war, Berlin was divided by the Soviets and the Western powers and had very little, if any, impact on the global policies and economy. The only moment when it was really in the centre of the attention was when the Berlin wall was knocked down. 
I'm not saying Berlin doesn't have rich history - on the contrary. But it was never as globally important as London or Rome.


----------



## potiz81

Crash_N said:


> Nice one
> I'm well aware of the existance of old calculating machines and "computors" such as abacus. We were talking about modern computers. Meaning electrical power, buttons, monitors, software etc.


Αh, ok. What about the first notebook then??:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Crash_N

potiz81 said:


> Αh, ok. What about the first notebook then??:lol::lol::lol:


I give up, you win - Greeks invented everything. :lol:
But, it's not all that surprising. Do you know one of the variations of Murphy's Law:
_The amount of intelligence in the world remains constant; population grows._


----------



## Clone

Crash_N said:


> Well, I skipped 75% of the thread when I first discovered it and just read the last couple of pages before posting. Now that I've read it completly, I feel like I've lost half of my brain. This thread turned into a city-vs-city and a fest of superficial nationalism and local patriotism with endless supply of utter ignorance with a nice touch of hatred towards the West. I've read people suggesting cities unkown to practically everyone except for the chosen few that, despite probably having some old buildings, had 0 influence over the course of human history. Cheap nationalism flourished with people bashing other people's comments and simply ignoring the facts other side provided. There was a suffucient amount of brainless arguments that were essentially like "who can piss further". But the pinnacle was people from Middle-east or East Asia bashing Europeans for being "West-centric" and listing a number of "magnificent and world-important cities" from China or India.
> Well I'm here to kick ass and drink cups of tea. And I'm all out of tea.
> Firstly, if you are reading this post you must be using a computer. The computer was invented in Great Britain and the USA, which are, you wouldn't believe this - WESTERN COUNTRIES!
> I've seen a post by *hkskyline*, a forum moderator who had contributed to SSC forum alot, bashing London and Western cities in general. A message for him and all others like him: your city is dominated not by pagodas, but by the f*cking skyscrapers.Guess who invented them: AMERICANS!
> All of you who hate West and own an automobile: you should know that it was invented by GERMANS ( who are Westerners ).
> I've seen dozens of people basically calling London a shithole. Well, if your city has a subway sistem, don't use it anymore - the first subway was constructed in LONDON ( a Western city ).
> And everytime you drink antibiotics, travel by plane, drink Coca-Cola, watch TV, listen to the radio, learn chemistry or physics, use Facebook, smoke cigarettes, drink beer, wear ANYTHING that isn't kimono or Arabian clothing, watch/play football, basketball, tennis, baseball or skiing, everytime you write in English language on this forum, remember: IT COMES FROM THE WEST!
> 
> God I feel relieved!


The west rules 

But to all the non western people here. They did not do all that stuff because westerners are better than you, they just had good circumstances and a lot of luck. 

And even tough I come from the west, I didn't invent anything, so I did as much as most people in this world, nothing.


----------



## Odoaker

And they have superior brains xD

@potiz

you don't where it's from! To me, it is obvious that this is the world's first and best preserved cuckoo clock!


----------



## Pincio

Tiaren said:


> Depends on what "most historic" is supposed to mean.
> 
> *most historic cities=the oldest cities:*
> Damascus (since 9000 BC), Byblos (since 7000 BC), Jericho (since 6800 BC)
> 
> *most historic cities=best preserved architecture:*
> Too many to name. Some examplary cities coming to my mind are:
> Venice, Verona, Florence, Rome, Prague, Regensburg, Bamberg... list goes on and on
> 
> *most historic cities=cities with the biggest impact on human history:*
> Athens, Rome, Beijing, Jerusalem, London, Paris, Berlin, Moscow, Washington DC... list goes on here as well.


Rome is the only city that is in 2 lists


----------



## Hebrewtext

*Yerushalem*

the place and events that generated after Judaism Christianity and Islam, civilizations that cover most of todays planet. 

3000 years old Jewish Hebrew homes, the time of king David and king Solomon kings of Israel.







walls


----------



## italiano_pellicano

ROME


----------



## kingsc

GIZA


----------



## Pfeuffer

Berlin


----------



## Galik

Carthage, Constantinople, Thebes,...Paris.


----------



## italiano_pellicano

Rome and Cairo


----------



## italiano_pellicano

Galik said:


> Carthage, Constantinople, Thebes,...Paris.



nice list but Paris ?


----------



## tikiturf

italiano_pellicano said:


> nice list but Paris ?


Never heard of Lutetia ? "Lutetia of the Parisii". The people who were living here were called the Parisii, guess where the name Paris come from now....


----------



## Tiaren

Pincio said:


> Rome is the only city that is in 2 lists


Well, in this case we do have a winner! :lol:


----------



## italiano_pellicano

oh ok , nice thanks for the information


----------



## italiano_pellicano

Rome is the most important


----------



## Tiaren

^^


italiano_pellicano said:


> ROME





italiano_pellicano said:


> Rome and Cairo





italiano_pellicano said:


> Rome is the most important


Okaaay...anything else to say?


----------



## italiano_pellicano

Jeje No


----------



## tikiturf

I'd say Athens, Jerusalem and Giza.


----------



## Dralcoffin

I'd say Rome in terms of historic importance and historic preservation. 

When it comes to _skyscrapers_, easily New York with Chicago second.


----------



## 1+2=3

Rome hands down. Why bring this even into debate?


----------



## serhat

Istanbul, Jarusalem, Rome, Athens, Ephesus


----------



## Al-Hashimi

Top of my head:

Makkah, Baghdad, Jerusalem, Damaskus and the ancient cities in Iraq (Cradle of Civilization) and Egypt.

In Europe Paris, Rome, Athens and Florence.


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## .franco

1) Rome
2) Florence
3) Paris 
4) Vienna
5) Prague
6) Saint Petersburg
7) Lisbon
8) Athens
9) Istanbul
10) Cairo
11) Marrakech


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## potiz81

serhat said:


> Istanbul, Jarusalem, Rome, Athens, Ephesus


Ephesus doesnt belong to this list. It was a great city in antiquity, but its impact to world's history has nothing to do with Athens, Istanbul and Rome. It is in the same league with other ancient greek cities, like Corinth, Pella, Syrracoussae, Olynthus, Delos, etc. etc., full of monuments, very ancient and important, but without such global impact.


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## shlouger

Fes in Morocco 
when is the most older university in the world ...


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## potiz81

Older university in the world??? You have never heard of Plato's Academy in Athens?!?!


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## little universe

*Patna* in India.

*Mohenjo-daro* in Pakistan.

*Xi'an (Chang'an)*, *Luoyang* and *Anyang* in China.






*Terracotta Army in Xi'an*


Faces by Channed, on Flickr


Horsepower by Channed, on Flickr


traveler : Tireless Stance by tofu_minx, on Flickr


xian warriors by *-*-*-*-*-* Philippe Brysse, on Flickr


Terracotta Army - 兵马俑 by ThirdMeaningPhoto, on Flickr


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## Kiboko

Amsterdam has the most historic atmosphere. Unless the other nominees Amsterdam is not a museum but a vibrant city. Everyone likes this place.


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## AJIekc

rome, athens, istambul, damascus


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## TuzlaBoy

You forgot Sarajevo.
First World War
Second World War
1992-1995 War.


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## Danielbisogno

Rome, Athens, Jerusalem, Cairo and Kyoto


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## Xtreminal

Rome, Athens, Jerusalem, Cairo and Istanbul


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## little universe

Danielbisogno said:


> Rome, Athens, Jerusalem, Cairo and Kyoto


^^

You do know that both Nara and Kyoto were modelled after the Chinese Capitals *Chang'an* (today's Xi'an) and *Luoyang*, do you? and both were in much smaller scales when compared to the mighty Chang'an and Luoyang.


Wikipedia Sources:


About Kyoto:


> ...The new city, Heian-kyō (平安京, "tranquility and peace capital"), a scaled replica of the then Tang capital *Chang'an*, became the seat of Japan's imperial court in 794, beginning the Heian period of Japanese history...
> 
> The original city was arranged in accordance with traditional Chinese feng shui following the model of the ancient Chinese capital of Chang'an (present-day Xi'an).




About Nara:


> ...Ancient capitals of Japan were built on the land of Nara, namely Asuka-kyō, Fujiwara-kyō (694–710) and Heijō-kyō (most of 710–784). The capital cities of Fujiwara and Heijō are believed to have been modeled after *Chinese capitals* at the time, incorporating grid layout patterns. The royal court also established relations with Sui and then Tang Dynasty China and sent students to the Middle Kingdom to learn high civilization...
> 
> ...The Nara court aggressively imported Chinese civilization by sending diplomatic envoys known as kentōshi to the Tang court every twenty years. Many Japanese students, both lay and Buddhist priests, studied in *Chang'an* and *Luoyang*...



*Chang'an* (known as *Xi'an* today) reached the population of 1 million around about 700 AD according to Wikipedia. It was the largest city in the World from 600 AD to 900 AD.

And it was the Eastern Terminal of the *Silk Road* at that time.


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## Alexenergy

Athens, Rome, Prague, St-Petersburg and Vinece. That's all


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