# SHANGHAI | Public Transport



## gakei

babystan03 said:


> Yeah....if they build it, Shanghai and Hangzhou is just a 26 mins train ride away.....:yes:


And now it spends 2 - 2.5 hrs to travel between these 2 cities ...


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## babystan03

gakei said:


> And now it spends 2 - 2.5 hrs to travel between these 2 cities ...


Yeah try the train ride b4........:yes:


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## gakei

Yappofloyd said:


> Sorry some confusion here as I wasn't specific. I wasn't talking about the Hangzhou ext.
> 
> I thought that there was a decision last year to extend the line a bit closer to downtown from the current terminus in the financial district. Or did I misunderstand something???


I have no info about whether they will build an extension to the downtown of Shanghai, but I personally wonder if it is cost-effective to build such a short extension without considering to extend it to Hangzhou. The Maglev may run very slowly from the current Longyang Rd. Stn. to the downtown given the short distance.


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## gakei

babystan03 said:



> Yeah try the train ride b4........:yes:


... and which is something like this :X


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## babystan03

gakei said:


> ... and which is something like this :X


Haha...yeah.....they even sell instant noodles on the train i think......


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## magz

Manu84 said:


> how much station??


around 400 stations in the central area


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## Jaye101

Funny how some cities can put down 300 stations without question, in a very short time. And Toronto cannot put down 10 stations without funding problems and it took 10 years.

PS. Good luck getting home from work.


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## samsonyuen

How many stations are there right now? And after 2020, is that the end of construction? Is there a map with station names in English? That's phenomenoal how much is being built right now. Is Beijing going through something similar (especially with the Olympics coming)? What's the difference in naming lines L, R and M?


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## fredcalif

China is just AMAZINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG


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## Jue

This rail network will relieve headaches for many Shanghai residents. Buses and cabs are horrendously inaccurate due to intense traffic congestion, and meagre existing rail coverage fails to serve most people.


samsonyuen said:


> How many stations are there right now? And after 2020, is that the end of construction? Is there a map with station names in English? That's phenomenoal how much is being built right now. Is Beijing going through something similar (especially with the Olympics coming)? What's the difference in naming lines L, R and M?


There are around 45-50 stations, if I estimate correctly. I only frequent two of the 4 existing lines (yes, only 4 out of 18 lines are in operation!). No, I do not know of a construction plan map with English names, only one with the existing lines. Beijing is building more track, but it will take a miracle to catch up with Shanghai. Beijing metro was started decades earlier, but has stagnated ever since the original two lines, with the city far more spread-out and therefore extravagantly costly to adequately cover with rail transport.

As for the L/R/M categorisation, I can discern no pattern. The existing lines are R1, R1 extension, R2, and M3. R1 is both underground and at-grade, whereas R2 is completely underground; M3 is an elevated heavy-rail line; I have not ridden R1 extension before, having no relatives in that part of town. M4 is definitely underground, as I witnessed the construction of several of its stations.


> Funny how some cities can put down 300 stations without question, in a very short time. And Toronto cannot put down 10 stations without funding problems and it took 10 years.
> 
> PS. Good luck getting home from work.


Public-works inefficiency is one of democracy's more conspicuous disadvantages, albeit still minor compared to the blessing of accountability. One has to thank the Communist Party for these massive construction projects; thanking them always takes courage.


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## z0rg

Is that map supposed to have 400km of railways or 800? Guess what the 800km net will look like if there are "only" 400km on that one...


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## Jue

z0rg said:


> Is that map supposed to have 400km of railways or 800? Guess what the 800km net will look like if there are "only" 400km on that one...


The map has over 800km of rail, and leaves little to the imagination. If it didn't, our imaginations would be overwhelmed.


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## Golden Loon

Jue said:


> Public-works inefficiency is one of democracy's more conspicuous disadvantages, albeit still minor compared to the blessing of accountability. One has to thank the Communist Party for these massive construction projects; thanking them always takes courage.


just like the magnetic-levitated train 
the communist just put all money on those massive construction to prove that communist is better than democracy
how silly they are when their country is still full of poor framers that share nothing from the stupid investment


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## Jue

Golden Loon said:


> just like the magnetic-levitated train
> the communist just put all money on those massive construction to prove that communist is better than democracy
> how silly they are when their country is still full of poor framers that share nothing from the stupid investment


You are like one of those fools that think we should halt space exploration because some people on Earth are still poor; backwards thinkers that have no faith in technological advancement and therefore humanity. History is frought with pitfalls where new inventions proved too expensive or inefficient; if this is one of them, then so be it.

Instead of flaming like someone with an sheltered upbringing that thinks he knows all, how about looking at the truth of this rail system? If China became a democracy in 1979 instead, it would have languished in a cesspool of impotence and corruption, and today it would be closer to Bangladesh or Zimbabwe than the economic superpower it is. Not only would the project be drowned in a quagmire of indecision, the country would never have become rich enough to afford it in any form whatsoever, poor peasants or not. Poor democracies stay poor; rich ones stay rich. People in rich countries exclaiming the system's virtues like evangelical priests don't seem to know that successful transitions from poverty to wealth, e.g. Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore, are usually done under authoritarian governments; these nations may change to democratic systems _after_ economic prosperity. The inherent short-sightedness of democracy allows for stability and accountability in a mature government, but completely stifles and destroys the long-term ambition required for economic advancement. Why would ignorant, uneducated third-world taxpayers/voters care an ounce about the national good and future prosperity, when they don't understand long-term needs? Whoops, they _don't_.

All I said in my above post was that such quick construction is due to Communist administrative fiat, that _democracy holding officials accountable is laudable_, and that thanking the commies is risky business, yet you came with a typical Western misinformed diatribe. I might as well invent a conspiracy theory where rich democracies scheme to install impotent democratic governments in order to forestall possible rising powers. It's no more immature of a theory than thinking maglev trains are for denouncing democracy. :lol:

Oh, and one thought that might amuse you: considering the poverty of China's peasants and that they entail a majority of the population, a free democratic election would likely elect a socialist or communist government that in turn, against the poor masses' will, surrenders socialism and commences reforms: just as China is doing today.


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## pflo777

just a short question, because I cannot read chinese:

could somebody pleas mark the "south station"( to big round thing, see the other thread about it),

I would like to know where it is in this big network....


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## magz

pflo777 said:


> just a short question, because I cannot read chinese:
> 
> could somebody pleas mark the "south station"( to big round thing, see the other thread about it),
> 
> I would like to know where it is in this big network....


Here is:


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## cellocello

*You are ridiculously naive*

Golden Loon: Shame shame on you!! Some people like you are still ideological biased. I believe you haven't got a slightest clue on what's happening in China, really suggest you to arrange a visit to China including Shanghai.

A few facts for your reference:

Shanghai is such a dynamic, huge, and thriving metropolis, it's definately in needs of a sophiscated metro system.

If the development of Shanghai - commercial centre of China, stagnated, the rest of country including those poor rural population would be bound to lose the country's economic momentum.

In a developing country like China, the wealth disparity would continue to last over in a certain period. But we are evidencing dramatical changes - China has lift 200mt ppl out of poverty in the past 20 years, and is planning to urbanize another 200mt of rural population in the next 20. I believe no other western regime would never ever accomplish such achievement.

Why the communist party bother to build such a "small" project as the country as a whole has been enjoying a average annual growth rate at 8% for 20 years, dwarfed many other developed and developing countries. 

China nowadays is communist in politics, capitalist in economy practice. Probably you don't even realize it, or unwillingly to accept.






Golden Loon said:


> just like the magnetic-levitated train
> the communist just put all money on those massive construction to prove that communist is better than democracy
> how silly they are when their country is still full of poor framers that share nothing from the stupid investment


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## magz

Golden Loon said:


> just like the magnetic-levitated train
> the communist just put all money on those massive construction to prove that communist is better than democracy
> how silly they are when their country is still full of poor framers that share nothing from the stupid investment


Nowadays, it's not so easy to find such a fool like you, I'm just too lucky.  

You probably should ask your american daddy to stop all the fancy stuffs and supports the poors on this earth first. 

Hey, there are still so many people in this world even don't have enough food to eat, why the hell you are still using computers and barking around?


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## Jue

Here is the same map with some additional captions. Existing routes are highlighted, north-south lines in green and east-west in red. Note how few lines are currently operational:


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## vincent

JayeTheOnly said:


> Funny how some cities can put down 300 stations without question, in a very short time. And Toronto cannot put down 10 stations without funding problems and it took 10 years.
> 
> PS. Good luck getting home from work.


in average, a brand new subway line can be built in 3.5 years in Asia. That can be building 5 lines at once and still take 3.5 years because much more people would be working on it.


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## vincent

which lines are under construction?


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## Jue

vincent said:


> which lines are under construction?


M7, M8, and L4 are under construction, as well as "Metro Line 9"; I am unsure which of the mapped routes that is. M4 is far behind schedule after a cave-in.


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## samsonyuen

Maybe M is for Metro, L for Light rail, and R for Regional (like commuter rail)?


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## Jue

samsonyuen said:


> Maybe M is for Metro, L for Light rail, and R for Regional (like commuter rail)?


M3 is a light rail line, or I would have concluded that too.


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## magz

M3 is a light rail line, or I would have concluded that too.
===

no, M3 is a Metro line, not a light rail line


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## Golden Loon

hahahaha
all the shanghainese pointed their gun toward me
you guys think that i have never been to shanghai? well i have been to most major cities of china and taken the magnetic-levitated train
u know what i mean－－面子工程，a construction that is only to let the the world to praise the development of the communist in china, how stupid it is, you guys know the truth clearly, how many people take the train daily? don't tell me the bullshit like technological advancement , WTF, u shanghainese invent the magnetic-levitation? don't be that naive, even german and japanese give up to use that technology that is non-practical! 

even their givernment does badly , but no people dare to complain or whatever, you guys just read the newspaper that praise your government everyday, shit


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## raymond_tung88

Golden Loon said:


> hahahaha
> all the shanghainese pointed their gun toward me
> you guys think that i have never been to shanghai? well i have been to most major cities of china and taken the magnetic-levitated train
> u know what i mean－－面子工程，a construction that is only to let the the world to praise the development of the communist in china, how stupid it is, you guys know the truth clearly, how many people take the train daily? don't tell me the bullshit like technological advancement , WTF, u shanghainese invent the magnetic-levitation? don't be that naive, even german and japanese give up to use that technology that is non-practical!
> 
> even their givernment does badly , but no people dare to complain or whatever, you guys just read the newspaper that praise your government everyday, shit


And you must be the most ignorant, close-minded person I have ever seen. You think that just visiting places makes you know everything!?!!?! Dude, with your mentality, you don't know shit. Did you ever bother to think that China is still a DEVELOPING country? For a developing country, they have many sophisticated, high-tech things that even surpass developed countries. Their development is nothing short of amazing. Only stupid people like you cannot see it or even worse, don't bother to see it. Here's a few tips next time:

1) learn to write English with proper grammar
2) learn to spell words (like government) right
3) don't ever talk again


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## touchring

面子工程 - this may well apply to certain developments in China, but definitely not Shanghai's subway - it's necessary to relieve the gridlock, if you ever had the chance to car around in Shanghai by car/taxi.


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## Golden Loon

haha SHANGHAI GOVERNMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

不是偷拍：上海帮泡妞照片曝光（组图）
2005年3月20日 星期日
【看中国报导】为争妞军警驳火送医急救的事已经司空见惯了，不过透露出来的确实不多。

动向杂志2月刊披露说，O五年头一天，元旦晚上，湖南省军区俱乐部发生公安干警和武警酗酒后因争「舞后」而互扔酒瓶、桌椅的殴斗。最后，出动军区的执巡人员，鸣枪阻止。在互殴中，有三十多名军警受伤，分送四家军方医院救治。

成克杰就没有这么幸运，他对宋祖英稍微热情了点儿，江泽民就直接把他送入了火葬场。

要说“黄”，咱红色中共可是“繁荣娼盛”，不但窝里搞，还到处输出娼妓，竟然让禁嫖的阿富汗政府采取了强硬拆台措施。去年三月，海南省曾向中共中央、国务院提出在海口、三亚、琼海、洋浦、文昌等五个市建赌博业、红灯区，向外全方位开放的报告。

云南省公安厅十五名科、处级干警，于2004年8月14日（周末），到某宾馆集体享受免费嫖娼。据省纪委讲，公安干警常到宾馆白吃、白拿又白「玩」。

监狱里嫖娼卖淫更红火，沈阳监狱的有夫之妇女警官陪关押的黑社会头子睡觉，河北一座监狱以建文明监狱为名，去年增设了红灯区供服刑人员享用，河北省关押的服刑者，纷纷要求转到此监狱服刑。官方乘机开列价目，按刑期计算，一年刑期收一万至五万的转移费，创收迅速增加。

中共高层由上海帮，也就是江家帮把持，虽然四季发情的黄菊到北京走马上任，但上海滩依然是嫖淫满视野。对于那些老淫棍来说，这不是耻辱，而是光荣，是与时俱进。要不怎么82岁的杨振宁在老婆去世不到半年就赶紧来大陆定居与28岁的大陆女“各取所需”。

去年，由《人民日报》、《解放军报》授权，对上海市民的民意调查显示：上海市民最强烈的民意有三方面：（一）要求舆论监管市、区二级领导，公开公布财产和经济状况；（二）反对高干特权，要求他们应当管教约束家属、子女；（三）反对医疗、教育乱收费，要体现人民医院、人民教育。此项民意调查是六月下旬进行的，但至今仍压住未公开。

确实是不能公开，因为这些要求一条也办不到，别的不说，就说“管教约束家属、子女”吧，就做不到。

下面是2003年几张去K房“视察工作”的上海市小萝卜头儿官员、嘉定区朱桥镇书记们淫乱的图片，这可不是偷拍的，是他们对着镜头摆好了姿势，让人拍照的。

耻辱？No.共产党干部说二奶包少了──丢份！不嫖不赌，那还是共产党的先进份子吗？

2004年年初，河南省纪委曾下令：党员干部包养情妇、搞婚外情者，一律撤销党内外职务；嫖妓者开除出党、开除公职！但，八月中旬，省纪委又下达通知：「暂缓执行上述有关决定」。据悉，自年初下达有关决定后，省纪委已接获数千宗包养情妇、搞婚外情的举报。

所以，真淫乱的要包住别露馅，真反腐的要给编出几个情妇施行“双规”，中国共产党需要的就是会淫会奸会贪会占的，这也就是为什么我们可以看到这些证明经济实力的照片──没钱谁往你怀里扎？！(人民报)


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## touchring

Golden Loon is from Hong Kong or Taiwan? Singapore? Malaysia?


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## kidoublier

Golden Loon said:


> hahahaha
> all the shanghainese pointed their gun toward me
> you guys think that i have never been to shanghai? well i have been to most major cities of china and taken the magnetic-levitated train
> u know what i mean－－面子工程，a construction that is only to let the the world to praise the development of the communist in china, how stupid it is, you guys know the truth clearly, how many people take the train daily? don't tell me the bullshit like technological advancement , WTF, u shanghainese invent the magnetic-levitation? don't be that naive, even german and japanese give up to use that technology that is non-practical!
> 
> even their givernment does badly , but no people dare to complain or whatever, you guys just read the newspaper that praise your government everyday, shit



one to say.the power of pudong airport will be 8 times bigger than today in 2020.


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## kidoublier

Golden Loon said:


> haha SHANGHAI GOVERNMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 不是偷拍：上海帮泡妞照片曝光（组图）
> 2005年3月20日 星期日
> 【看中国报导】为争妞军警驳火送医急救的事已经司空见惯了，不过透露出来的确实不多。
> 
> 动向杂志2月刊披露说，O五年头一天，元旦晚上，湖南省军区俱乐部发生公安干警和武警酗酒后因争「舞后」而互扔酒瓶、桌椅的殴斗。最后，出动军区的执巡人员，鸣枪阻止。在互殴中，有三十多名军警受伤，分送四家军方医院救治。
> 
> 成克杰就没有这么幸运，他对宋祖英稍微热情了点儿，江泽民就直接把他送入了火葬场。
> 
> 要说“黄”，咱红色中共可是“繁荣娼盛”，不但窝里搞，还到处输出娼妓，竟然让禁嫖的阿富汗政府采取了强硬拆台措施。去年三月，海南省曾向中共中央、国务院提出在海口、三亚、琼海、洋浦、文昌等五个市建赌博业、红灯区，向外全方位开放的报告。
> 
> 云南省公安厅十五名科、处级干警，于2004年8月14日（周末），到某宾馆集体享受免费嫖娼。据省纪委讲，公安干警常到宾馆白吃、白拿又白「玩」。
> 
> 监狱里嫖娼卖淫更红火，沈阳监狱的有夫之妇女警官陪关押的黑社会头子睡觉，河北一座监狱以建文明监狱为名，去年增设了红灯区供服刑人员享用，河北省关押的服刑者，纷纷要求转到此监狱服刑。官方乘机开列价目，按刑期计算，一年刑期收一万至五万的转移费，创收迅速增加。
> 
> 中共高层由上海帮，也就是江家帮把持，虽然四季发情的黄菊到北京走马上任，但上海滩依然是嫖淫满视野。对于那些老淫棍来说，这不是耻辱，而是光荣，是与时俱进。要不怎么82岁的杨振宁在老婆去世不到半年就赶紧来大陆定居与28岁的大陆女“各取所需”。
> 
> 去年，由《人民日报》、《解放军报》授权，对上海市民的民意调查显示：上海市民最强烈的民意有三方面：（一）要求舆论监管市、区二级领导，公开公布财产和经济状况；（二）反对高干特权，要求他们应当管教约束家属、子女；（三）反对医疗、教育乱收费，要体现人民医院、人民教育。此项民意调查是六月下旬进行的，但至今仍压住未公开。
> 
> 确实是不能公开，因为这些要求一条也办不到，别的不说，就说“管教约束家属、子女”吧，就做不到。
> 
> 下面是2003年几张去K房“视察工作”的上海市小萝卜头儿官员、嘉定区朱桥镇书记们淫乱的图片，这可不是偷拍的，是他们对着镜头摆好了姿势，让人拍照的。
> 
> 耻辱？No.共产党干部说二奶包少了──丢份！不嫖不赌，那还是共产党的先进份子吗？
> 
> 2004年年初，河南省纪委曾下令：党员干部包养情妇、搞婚外情者，一律撤销党内外职务；嫖妓者开除出党、开除公职！但，八月中旬，省纪委又下达通知：「暂缓执行上述有关决定」。据悉，自年初下达有关决定后，省纪委已接获数千宗包养情妇、搞婚外情的举报。
> 
> 所以，真淫乱的要包住别露馅，真反腐的要给编出几个情妇施行“双规”，中国共产党需要的就是会淫会奸会贪会占的，这也就是为什么我们可以看到这些证明经济实力的照片──没钱谁往你怀里扎？！(人民报)


你没资格用中国字。


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## Golden Loon

kidoublier said:


> 你没资格用中国字。


because i know things that your government never let you guys know?
and hey can my shanghainese buddies recognise who they are in those pictures?
若要人不知,除非己莫为
关于上海政府腐败的新闻我多的是,然而你们还整天歌颂你们的烂政府


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## Substructure

I'm sorry, but 800km is hardly believable considering Tokyo has only 232km and is just as huge as Shanghai subway, as planned for 2020.


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## touchring

Golden Loon said:


> because i know things that your government never let you guys know?
> and hey can my shanghainese buddies recognise who they are in those pictures?
> 若要人不知,除非己莫为
> 关于上海政府腐败的新闻我多的是,然而你们还整天歌颂你们的烂政府


Isn't KTV socializing part of doing business and governing in China? This happens in all North East Asian countries. Happens in Korea and Japan as well, what so surprising?


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## Golden Loon

touchring said:


> Isn't KTV socializing part of doing business and governing in China? This happens in all North East Asian countries. Happens in Korea and Japan as well, what so surprising?


i showed the light one to keep you shanghaineses' faces
you wanna me to show something more interesting?


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## visitant

Golden Loon knows a lot. Now everyone here admires his justice, purity and nobility  

So, no more politics please. It's a thread for those who intrested in Shanghai subway system, not a place to dump political garbage.

It's natural China got some sophisticated traffic system. When Haussmann completed his reconstruction plan in 1850s, Paris was the most modern city in the world. But it's obviously old-fashioned when comparing with Pudong, a city of 1990s. 

to Substructure
I think 800km contains metro, city LRT and magliv.


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## touchring

visitant said:


> Golden Loon knows a lot. Now everyone here admires his justice, purity and nobility
> 
> So, no more politics please. It's a thread for those who intrested in Shanghai subway system, not a place to dump political garbage.


Loon is interesting. He doesn't seem to know there are many foriegners reading this forum, and if he is from China, then he is washing dirty laundry in public - http://www.nedstatbasic.net/stats?ACW67A0kBW0+hT/EfI6g/DYEriig. 

If he is an overseas Chinese, then he would be better off spending his time preparing his migration to America, Canada or Australia.


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## Jue

magz said:


> M3 is a light rail line, or I would have concluded that too.
> ===
> 
> no, M3 is a Metro line, not a light rail line


Then why does everybody call it a light rail? 

People, time to get back on topic.


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## maldini

Golden Loon said:


> just like the magnetic-levitated train
> the communist just put all money on those massive construction to prove that communist is better than democracy
> how silly they are when their country is still full of poor framers that share nothing from the stupid investment


Shutup stupid crap. Shanghai has a population of 15 million and they need mass public transportation. They have a real need for these subway. You are just jealous of Shanghai as China is getting more and more prosperous.


----------



## magz

Jue said:


> Then why does everybody call it a light rail?
> 
> People, time to get back on topic.


  
People tends to call a train running on the elevated railroad "light rail", but actually there is no difference between M3 and M1 in terms of transportation capacity, which is well regarded as the guideline of classifying light rail and heavy rail(Metro).


----------



## kidoublier

Golden Loon said:


> i showed the light one to keep you shanghaineses' faces
> you wanna me to show something more interesting?


i'm so proud of your great interest. you're such a wonderful person with great personality.


----------



## marka971

how many lines are there now? i was there in 2002 and i think there were only 2 lines...


----------



## chenium

marka971 said:


> how many lines are there now? i was there in 2002 and i think there were only 2 lines...


So far 4 lines are available. They are R1, R1 ext, R2, M3. In fact, the public transportation system mostly based on the bus system. You could check this site, and count how many bus lines Shanghai has.

http://www.eastmanagers.com/shanghai/bus.asp

Something close to 500+ bus lines.


----------



## severl

sunny ,i am fucking your mum,she is sucking my dog`s dick.we are happy.
ha ha ha ha


----------



## Jue

magz said:


> People tends to call a train running on the elevated railroad "light rail", but actually there is no difference between M3 and M1 in terms of transportation capacity, which is well regarded as the guideline of classifying light rail and heavy rail(Metro).


Thanks for the definition. Wonder what to call it now in Chinese, with residents only used to "轻轨" and "地铁".


----------



## Jasonhouse

Wrong forum

This is not a highrise development... Please post future threads in the correct forum.


----------



## Bitxofo

*Shanghai MAGLEV, 35 photos.*

Hi!!
:hi:
I am back home after my holidays in China.
Here, I leave you this thread about Shanghai MAGLEV. It goes from Shanghai to its new Pudong Airport, 40 km. in 7 min. Top speed: *431 km/h*. Average speed: 350 km/h. :eek2: :eek2:
Enjoy:



























































































































































































































































































































:wink2:
I hope you like it!

Greetings from Barcelona.
:wave:


----------



## Bobdreamz

awesome!


----------



## Amit

Great!!


----------



## Sky

Great pics, Bitxo! kay:


----------



## [Kees]

Amazing speeds! :eek2: How many cost a ticket for the maglev? I hope that more maglevs will be build. :cheers:


----------



## Andrew

Cool, nice shots. I love this one:








The most advanced train on earth and they've got extension sockets and a fan in the driver's cab!
Plus the operation of it looks so simple, there's hardly anything in there, just 2 screens and what looks like a start and stop button!! lol In fact I'm surprised it even has a drivers cab, would have thought it would have been automated.
Very, very cool train!


----------



## John-Claude

Awesome pics! The Transrapid is probably the coolest train ever. 

I especially like the photo that shows all those smashed bugs!


----------



## Skybean

haha. It looks like you weren't disappointed during your trip, Bitxofo. So many crushed bugs too . Can't wait for your HK pics :happy:


----------



## Nodder

> In fact I'm surprised it even has a drivers cab, would have thought it would have been automated.
> Very, very cool train!


Actually in May 2005 the Transrapid got the approval to opperate automatically as the first high speed train in Europe. But things might be different in China...


----------



## pottebaum

That's really cool.


----------



## allan_dude

what's that an electric fan?? what are those extension cords for? (on the middle part of the pic, reposted by andrew) doesn't look modern to me.. har har har


----------



## pflo777

> The most advanced train on earth and they've got extension sockets and a fan in the driver's cab!


In fact, the transrapid , in China as well as on the Testtrack IS running fully automated...

those to chicks in there are only for giving the passangers the feeling, that there is someone on board, who controls the whole thing....

But its definately running automated, I read it several times on different sources, and they also tell that on the transrapid homepage.

Edit:

Btw, any news about the extension of the track to hanghou and lingang
?


----------



## superchan7

The driver cab is very basic. I mean...come on, it's a 7 minute trip.


----------



## AaronClark

Very nice! Plans are still moving forward slowly here in Pittsburgh for a maglev. I got an e-mail a few weeks ago about public meetings on the alignment of it and the Environmental Impact Statement.....so here's hoping this all works out.


----------



## Effer

That train is endangering the bug population in Shanghai!


----------



## la bestia kuit

amazing train, nice pics


----------



## GNU

very,very cool pics.
I still hope that this thing goes into operation at the munich airport


----------



## khoojyh

awesome !!!


----------



## Kuvvaci

amazing


----------



## mopc

How much did it cost to build?


----------



## Bitxofo

mopc said:


> How much did it cost to build?


No idea...
:dunno:


----------



## evangelistik

The 30 km maglev track and train(s) cost a total of $1.2bn. 

From what I have heard, it is a commercial bust. The average number of riders per train were only 73 on a train with a capacity for 440 people.

The ticket prices were too high (which is probably why they are now around $6 per one-way ticket).... and the drop-off points and stations for the mag-levs were in areas where not alot of passengers had easy access to, adding to its lack of success.


At this point I don't think the mag-lev will have any more major expansions, as I have heard that China has instead opted for the Shinkansen line instead. Shame.


----------



## pflo777

Any of you guys already travelled with the maglev during the new expanded operation time (+5h)

As far as I know, it makes only 300 km/h during the additional operation time, not 430.

Any experience? How is it accepted by the customers?
Is it full/empty?


----------



## sista

darn we were supposed to ride this thing in going to the airport, but our luggage was too heavy and bulky lol so we opted to go for the longer trip by tourist bus lol, and the tracks were by our side. We saw the train pass by like a cheetah while our bus traveled at about 50 kph, seemingly like a turtle beside the train lol


and I agree with the wrong translations part....China has a lot of money to hire better translators :lol:


----------



## kronik

>


I see its doing wonders for the bug control program. yuck! uke:


----------



## SpastiK

Thank you very much for the pics Bitxofo!!! kay:


That pics are impresive!!!!



I want a MAGLEV FOR SPAIN!!!!!! :rant:


----------



## hif

amazing... 7 minutes trip with v=431 km/h :eek2: 

btw they should change name of this train --> "InsectsKiller-431"


----------



## shenqie

Needs stops/terminus in central areas and connection onwards to another majore city - would make good money then ...


----------



## shenqie

The translations are part of the charm when visiting - they make me smile and I still get the gist of it. Wish there were more "4-star" toilets like the one at the Ming tombs tho ;o)


----------



## Joh. Kluehspies

*some more shots and ...*

Hello! 
Nice shots of your trip with maglev in Shanghai!
Here are some more (photos from maglev.in )










front of maglev










inside the train










maintenance ward

many photos and maps are here: maglev.in

more discussions and info about maglev also here: Forum Maglev 

.... 


jok

.
.
.


----------



## gakei

The highest speed on ground ?! (relative speed is around 700km/h
when two maglev trains of different directions meet together)


----------



## Fabio

great photos, this is awesome


----------



## babystan03

Nice pictures from Gakei....:yes:


----------



## pit.pit

*Shanghai Maglev extension to link airports*

Hello: Breaking news? Just heard about a Shanghai Maglev extension to link twoa airports! The Shanghai Daily Newspaper reports today:

_"SHANGHAI'S two airports could soon be linked by a maglev train line, if the central government approves the project, officials with a government-backed construction company said yesterday. 
The city is also planning to build two highways linking the Pudong International Airport with downtown Shanghai and Jinshan District. 
The existing maglev line, which currently connects Pudong International Airport with the Longyang Road Metro Station, will be extended over the next few year across the Huangpu River to the Hongqiao Airport. The connection will allow travelers to commute between the two airports in about 15 minutes, according to Xu Zheng, president of Shanghai Construction Group. 
The two airports are about 40 kilometers apart, and it takes more than an hour to travel between them by car. Many people fly into the Hongqiao Airport from other parts of the country, and then have to catch international flights out of Pudong. 
"China's maglev construction technology has reached the world-class level," said Xu. "So technically speaking, we are confident about extending the maglev line." 
According to the preliminary plan, the maglev will extend from the Longyang Road Metro Station to the Hongqiao Airport with stops at the World Expo site and the Shanghai South Railway Station. 
.....
....."_

More here: Shanghai Maglev Extension


pit.pit


----------



## z0rg

nick-taylor said:


> Does anyone have a map that just shows future metro lines cause that above map includes 5 light-rail lines (L1-5) and I thought the R-lines are commuter services lines?


This one may look less messy to you. If you need a map showing metro lines only excuse me, I don't have one.









Metro lines are in red, light rail ones in green and commuter ones in dark blue. I wonder if all of them are included in those 400 km or not. I read that there are 800 km proposed for 2020 but I suppose they still haven't released concrete plans.


----------



## nick_taylor

^^ Well if thats true then there are somewhere around 156 stops and that includes commuter line and light rail interchanges from the current approx 63 stops. Pretty impressive but then the city does have a population upwards of between 15-20mn!

I suspect they mean 400km for all light rail and heavy rail and not 400km for the underground railway.


----------



## raymond_tung88

Nice! I just don't see why they just don't extend the Maglev to Lujiazui, close down Hongqiao, and just expand Pudong International to include all domestic and international flights...


----------



## pflo777

As far as I know, they are NOT too happy with the location of Pudong airport.

I heard about plans to extend Honquiao with a second runway and second terminal so that it has the capacity of pudong.

Thats because all people, who come from the west of shanghai by train have to go through or around the city and then far far out to reach pudong airport.

But Honquiao is much better to reach.

And wenn the High speed lines from Wuxi and Hanghzhou come together at shanghai, it is possible to connect them to Honquiao airport, but not to pudong.....


----------



## Mr.JACOB

THis light rail is a normal metro but it dont have any stops underground. They use the same cars as in warsaw subway it havy rail.


----------



## nick_taylor

Mr.JACOB said:


> THis light rail is a normal metro but it dont have any stops underground. They use the same cars as in warsaw subway it havy rail.


So what exactly is the rolling stock then? Is it like Docklands Light Railway stock which is somewhere inbetween being a metro but also a tram.


----------



## Mr.JACOB

nick-taylor said:


> So what exactly is the rolling stock then? Is it like Docklands Light Railway stock which is somewhere inbetween being a metro but also a tram.


 Yes i know the docklands light rail and of course its light rail. But i dont understand chinese people they call a havy rail metro train a light rail just becouse is not going underground :weird: This are alstom "metropolitan" trains or somethink like that


----------



## Mr.JACOB

I dont know how to put photos and i dont know the link to this chinese site. The trains are similar to warsaw so hear the link:

http://metro.civ.pl/foto/stacja Plac Wilsona/DSC03556_resize.JPG

http://metro.civ.pl/foto/stacja Kabaty/PC280031.JPG

http://metro.civ.pl/foto/stacja Kabaty/IMGP2043.JPG

http://metro.civ.pl/foto/Stacja Techniczno Postojowa/IM001592.JPG

http://metro.civ.pl/foto/Stacja Techniczno Postojowa/IM001590.JPG

http://www.metro.waw.pl/page.php?id=57

If someone will show me then i can put alsow the flix of shanghai becouse i got them on my pc


----------



## Wisarut

Well Shanghai metro uses both Siemens and ALSTHOM rollign stocks - with both driver (Line 1 Line 2) and driverless (for Line 3 and Line 5) ...


----------



## Falubaz

nick-taylor said:


> Does anyone have a map that just shows future metro lines cause that above map includes 5 light-rail lines (L1-5) and I thought the R-lines are commuter services lines?


not exactly.
you should note that the future R1 line is the actually line 1 of shanghai metro. why the chinese distinguish them on the expantion plan i really don't know. but it's their system. if the L-lines are metro without underground stations let's call them LRT, if teh Metro is only underground then let's them call it in that way and if they want call other lines R-lines ...? maybe these are mixed L and M lines? but i think the R-lines are normal metro lines going outside the city or only outside the central zone, all the R lines don't end in the central area but they go far away, just have a look at that wonderful map


----------



## Mr.JACOB

Wisarut said:


> Well Shanghai metro uses both Siemens and ALSTHOM rollign stocks - with both driver (Line 1 Line 2) and driverless (for Line 3 and Line 5) ...


Yes i know that but we are talking about line 5 this what they call light rail.


----------



## zergcerebrates

DonQui said:


> They were significantly poorer. Even after a decade of high growth, China is barely even half as wealthy as Russia, and Russia's wealth fell (at least in aggregate terms) as a result of the collapse of the Soviet Union


China's wealth is now greater than that of Russia.


----------



## Mr.JACOB

Falubaz said:


> not exactly.
> you should note that the future R1 line is the actually line 1 of shanghai metro. why the chinese distinguish them on the expantion plan i really don't know. but it's their system. if the L-lines are metro without underground stations let's call them LRT, if teh Metro is only underground then let's them call it in that way and if they want call other lines R-lines ...? maybe these are mixed L and M lines? but i think the R-lines are normal metro lines going outside the city or only outside the central zone, all the R lines don't end in the central area but they go far away, just have a look at that wonderful map


No no its wrong becouse they call the R's the light rails (line 5) and its allready in use. I saw it and it is a full metro. I dont know what about the L's becouse they dont have it yet. The same situation is in Wuhan its full havy rail metro but it dont have any underground stations and they call it wuhan lrt. Alsow in Tianjin there is a havy rail S-train and alsow there they call it Lrt 

Take a look at this maps:

http://subwayfuture.nease.net/map/she.gif

http://subwayfuture.nease.net/map/shplane.gif


----------



## DonQui

zergcerebrates said:


> China's wealth is now greater than that of Russia.


:nono:

this is a lie. China remains far behind Russia and likely with greater regional disparities than Russia. In total GDP, yes, but this means little as the country does house 20% of humanity. It will take at least another decade of break neck growth to allow China to surpass Russia in terms of per capita wealth

I am not trying to slight China, I am trying to provide a rational as to why Russia and the former Soviet Union had much more widespread metro systems: they were wealthier.


----------



## loadsofbulls

double post


----------



## loadsofbulls

nick-taylor said:


> I suspect they mean 400km for all light rail and heavy rail and not 400km for the underground railway.


Even if so this system is still amazing.  



z0rg said:


>


----------



## loadsofbulls

DonQui said:


> Russia and the former Soviet Union had much more widespread metro systems: they were wealthier.


The past means nothing.


----------



## DonQui

loadsofbulls said:


> The past means nothing.


:stupid:


----------



## loadsofbulls

DonQui said:


> China remains far behind Russia and likely with greater regional disparities than Russia.


China is undervalued because of the magic of the exchange rate. I believe a lot of the Chinese, particularly those who live in the large cities are many times wealthier than the Russians.


----------



## DonQui

loadsofbulls said:


> China is undervalued because of the magic of the exchange rate. I believe a lot of the Chinese, particularly those who live in the large cities are many times wealthier than the Russians.


:crazy:


----------



## Mr.JACOB

Ok lest go back to the subway topic.


----------



## Momo1435

Is there any logic in this system? It looks like a web but without structure, they could have made it somewhat more simple.


----------



## ChinaboyUSA

Shanghai's Metro System matches its world cosmopolitan reputation is a must.


----------



## superchan7

What world cosmopolitan reputation? The metro is part of Shanghai's reputation. If it has problems (which it does, according to the forumers here), the city's reputation suffers.


----------



## ChinaboyUSA

^Do you think that NYC subway has its problems? See how many people use the metro as the commuting mathod.


----------



## raymond_tung88

DonQui said:


> :nono:
> 
> this is a lie. China remains far behind Russia and likely with greater regional disparities than Russia. In total GDP, yes, but this means little as the country does house 20% of humanity. It will take at least another decade of break neck growth to allow China to surpass Russia in terms of per capita wealth
> 
> I am not trying to slight China, I am trying to provide a rational as to why Russia and the former Soviet Union had much more widespread metro systems: they were wealthier.


Per capita wealth doesn't mean anything. The only reason why China's is so low is because they have SO MANY people to split the GDP amongst. In reality a lot of people in China do not earn incomes because they are either nomads, autonomous region peoples, and minorities....

Anyways, China has the world's fourth-largest economy and not to smite Russia but in the cities, its people live way better lives. The Chinese infrastructure system is way more sophisticated than Russia's... Russia may have more cities with metros but that doesn't mean its richer. The only great metro system is Moscow's. In China, you have Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou, etc.


----------



## napkcirtap

mopc said:


> Does anyone have a network map?


routes in operation:








system map of 2015:









system map of 2030:


----------



## samsonyuen

Why does the current map have a lighter area "Nonuse"? Does it mean it's not built yet?


----------



## Mr.JACOB

samsonyuen said:


> Why does the current map have a lighter area "Nonuse"? Does it mean it's not built yet?


yes its under construction


----------



## napkcirtap

samsonyuen said:


> Why does the current map have a lighter area "Nonuse"? Does it mean it's not built yet?


it was built, but the tunnel beneath the huangpu river(which can be seen in the 2015 picture)colapsed during construction back in 2003, and that segment was flooded. so currently, they r building new tunnel segments to replace the old ones, due to open in 2007


----------



## hkskyline

*Shanghai Plans 300km Bus-Only Lanes*

*More bus-only lanes aimed to double speed, efficiency *
3 March 2006
Shanghai Daily










The city government aims to double the efficiency of public buses and make them less crowded during rush hour by adding public-bus-only traffic lanes and rebuilding terminal stations by 2010, traffic engineers said yesterday. 

The city plans to create 300 kilometers of bus-only traffic lanes over the next several years. Currently, there are only about 30 kilometers of bus-only lanes in the city. 

It also plans to reconstruct 60 percent of the local terminal bus stations so buses won't block traffic while picking up passengers. 

"Hopefully, the plan will double the speed of numbered buses and make them less crowded during rush hour," Cai Yifeng, a city planner with the Shanghai Transportation Planning Institute, said yesterday. 

He said both measures aim to improve the efficiency of public road transport, which handles 7 million passengers every day on average, more than four times the number of people who use subways. 

Some of the new lanes will be created by widening roads while others will be obtained by the re-arrangement of existing roads. 

Public buses run at an average speed of 10 kilometers and hour during rush hour in downtown. The government plans to lift that speed to 18 to 20 kilometers per hour before 2010, officials said. 

"When buses move faster, they will also become less crowded as they will be more efficient," he said. 

Most of the bus lanes will be set up on major arteries, such as Zhaojiabang Road, Xizang Road M. and Zhongshan Road S., according to the Shanghai Urban Planning Administrative Bureau. 

Construction of some 25 kilometers of new lanes is now planned. 

"Public buses are always slowed down on streets by the increasing number of private vehicles," said Chen Youhua, an engineer with the bureau. 

Another major task is to renovate 60 percent of the city's more than 900 terminal bus stations and moving them closer to subway stations. 

Currently, buses block traffic when they stop to pick up passengers at many terminal bus stations. 

The government now plans to create space off to the side of the road, so buses can stop without blocking cars behind them. That plan can only be used on wide streets, however.


----------



## samsonyuen

What a huge undertaking!


----------



## bayviews

Thanks for great news on bus expansion from Shanghai, Hkskyline. Shanghai is quickly becoming one of the leaders in mass transit worldwide!


----------



## TeKnO_Lx

great examples for other cities
great mayor :applause:


----------



## ode of bund

Great Mayor?? A trolley killer

I can assure you none of these is going to materialize.


----------



## davidwei01

*Shanghai maglev*

many shanghai and its maglev aerial photos 
(taken 2003, source: skyscrapers.cn)


----------



## reinhart87

shanghai's maglev looks amazing.. very high tech!! and the city itself, hmmm.. very interesting! i remember when i went to shanghai for the first time in 2002, it already showed to me the traces of such an ultra modern city and the maglev hasn't been built completely, only the rails and foundation... keep on going shanghai!!

*btw, does shanghai's maglev only connect downtown with pudong airport?


----------



## Ljubljana City

If it does, how long is the trace and how much it takes to get from the station to the aiport?


----------



## Chevin

Nice photos david


----------



## davidwei01

yes, currently only connect Pudong airport to downtown. Another line will start building this year to connect it with other airport (Hongqiao airport) and another city, Hangzhou, 180kms away.
it's about 30km long and take 7.5 minutes. The fare is RMB50 one way (about 6$), RMB80 two-way ($10$)


----------



## Castle_Bravo

The stations looks very nice, and the city also. The train looks like a box  , but it's not bad


----------



## Ljubljana City

davidwei01 said:


> it's about 30km long and take 7.5 minutes.


OMG :runaway: Why did they put seats in it? :lol: You're there before you manage to make yourself comfortable.


----------



## OettingerCroat

^^haha ljubljana city


----------



## davidwei01

Ljubljana City said:


> OMG :runaway: Why did they put seats in it? :lol: You're there before you manage to make yourself comfortable.


 :lol: I took the train once. The whole experience is to accelerate to 430 km/hour, stay for a couple of seconds, and decelerate to zero. The seats in the picture are actually first-class seats but I really don't think there's any difference between frist-class and other classes for a short trip.


----------



## ChinaboyUSA

The pictures were took on 2003, and now it is 2006.
Anyway, very nice pictures.


----------



## visitant

davidwei01 said:


> many shanghai and its maglev aerial photos


Beautifull *S*


----------



## SOLOMON

cool


----------



## DonQui

What can I say, but :drool:


----------



## pflo777

could any of the chinese guys, especially the ones from shanghai post news about the construction to Hangzhou?
If they really want to start contstruction this year, the construction sites have to be marked already? no?
Is the route already fixed?
Any news??????


----------



## mr_storms

Ive seen most of those before, but I just noticed something. Is there no emergency walkways on the side? Doesnt seem that safe if something happens to the maglev on those elevated structures and people get stuck


----------



## FM 2258

These are the best pictures I've seen for the SMT. I can't wait to have a chance to ride on it and the far seems really cheap. For $6 I'll probably ride it for fun. 


I noticed you posted pictures of Pudong, does the SMT go into the heart of Pudong? Can I easily walk from the Jin Mao Building to an SMT station to the airport or is it much further away than that?


----------



## davidwei01

the station is in pudong but not close to Jinmao area. you can take subway line 2 to get to the maglev station.


----------



## Jue

FM 2258 said:


> These are the best pictures I've seen for the SMT. I can't wait to have a chance to ride on it and the far seems really cheap. For $6 I'll probably ride it for fun.
> 
> 
> I noticed you posted pictures of Pudong, does the SMT go into the heart of Pudong? Can I easily walk from the Jin Mao Building to an SMT station to the airport or is it much further away than that?


Much further. And I'm not sure how close the line will get when extended, since the expo area is a couple kilometres from downtown.


----------



## Nick

I love the way it snakes so gracefully into the distance.

In 50 years they are going to cover whole continents.

Bring it on!


----------



## asfar

WOW!!! :eek2:


----------



## FM 2258

Jue said:


> Much further. And I'm not sure how close the line will get when extended, since the expo area is a couple kilometres from downtown.


Interesting. Hopefully it will get extended right up to the SWFC or maybe even beyond that. Thanks for the explanation.


----------



## Jue

FM 2258 said:


> Interesting. Hopefully it will get extended right up to the SWFC or maybe even beyond that. Thanks for the explanation.


No, not up to the SWFC. At least, there is no ROW for a maglev line through downtown right now. While it is possible they add a new station, they have only stated an additional station at the expo center, which is across the river and a few blocks north.


----------



## zergcerebrates

Nice pictures. Shanghai looks better and better.


----------



## Fayadi

Wow... Darn proud of Shanghai! Tokyo planned subway seems big but it is only 232 km, is Shanghai really going to have 800km of subway lines?


----------



## hkth

Related news from the China Forum with photos.
http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=383553


----------



## bluga




----------



## elkram

Ouch, I see no constructed emergency gangway up there, hmmmm.


----------



## officedweller

Is that blue thing an escape chute?


----------



## Mr. Fusion

^^ I do not now, hmm... To me, it looks like a trash chute so they can gut the interior. :yes:


----------



## degnaw

Even if it is an escape chute, it would probably be pretty scary to do it (unless the cabin was on fire, I wouldnt go in)

Of course, a trash chute sound like a more feasible name for it


----------



## LordMarshall

wow scary

i take BART in San Francisco and always wonder what i would do if there was an emergency under the bay.


----------



## zergcerebrates

officedweller said:


> Is that blue thing an escape chute?



No of course not, that thing is pretty weak to hold a person besides its too steep and dangerous.


----------



## zergcerebrates

elkram said:


> Ouch, I see no constructed emergency gangway up there, hmmmm.



I don't think the Germans or the Chinese thought this could happen, Maglev is a pretty safe technology and the possibility of something going wrong is extremely slim.


----------



## elkram

zergcerebrates said:


> I don't think the Germans or the Chinese


Neither global nor globalessness has anthing to do with this. It's greedy business people losing sight on their venture. There's a really silly promo video linked toward the top of the _Skybus_ thread in _The Pro Section_ here on another anticipated mode of train travel -- "international". Better wait a full generation's worth of operational service before deeming the maglev tech safe the way it mucks with force fields, right.


----------



## Effer

This is horrible! hno:


----------



## officedweller

The chute looks similar to these:

http://www.escape-chute-systems.com/

They have something similar on the BC Ferries -, where the side of the ship is much taller than the Maglev track.


----------



## Momo1435

officedweller said:


> The chute looks similar to these:
> 
> http://www.escape-chute-systems.com/
> 
> They have something similar on the BC Ferries -, where the side of the ship is much taller than the Maglev track.


Indeed it must be a chute, how else good people get of in a hurry.



zergcerebrates said:


> I don't think the Germans or the Chinese thought this could happen, Maglev is a pretty safe technology and the possibility of something going wrong is extremely slim.


Things like this are always anticipated, high speed travel always has it's dangers, it doesn't matter if it's trains, planes or automobiles. In this case,a fire can always happen in any electrical system.


----------



## chico_pastor

Unusual but interesting evacuating system :eek2:


----------



## mrmoopt

LOL I'd love to try the chute... looks cool. Always wanted to try extreme stuff like the NZ Zorb and other stuff 

As for the train, pity the fire was that extensive... it looks bad


----------



## bluga

Scaffold is set up close to a magnetic levitation (MagLev) station for MagLev train repair in Shanghai of east China, Aug. 14, 2006. The train was damaged during a fire on the afternoon of Aug. 11.


----------



## elkram

Hilarious, the thing's really crippled. Repairs being done en route. Fascinating there seeming to be no backup system allowing the unit to be towed somewhere off route. Hadn't at least one railway consultant any input into this network?


----------



## hkskyline

This maglev line is the first in the world. Trains don't have wheels and run on tracks, so they can't switch to a backup unless they double up the guiding lane - ie. have 2 bridges. Even then, how exactly do you switch tracks?

I doubt any engineer from outside Germany or Japan has the technology to give advice on how to build this line.


----------



## cyberjaya

elkram said:


> Hilarious, the thing's really crippled. Repairs being done en route. Fascinating there seeming to be no backup system allowing the unit to be towed somewhere off route. Hadn't at least one railway consultant any input into this network?


you are hilarious  . who told you it's being repaired en route? It's on an emergency track 1 km away from the Longyang terminal. The routine maglev schedules don't get affected at all. :bash:


----------



## zergcerebrates

*Official Shanghai Maglev Video!!*

5 min presentation, nice quality video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT-mVT-ORww


----------



## gaoanyu

en said:


> Seem that they use Japanese style signs now


What do you mean Japanese style signs? Any photos to compare? Thanks!


----------



## hkskyline

So that's the circular railway station!


----------



## Echang03

Uhhhh.....not really feeling the purple seats...lol but the stations look pretty special, like an airport. 

Are these newly built?


----------



## Andrew

I love the design of this station, the big airy waiting area seems so much like an airport. That's a good thing in my opinion, it must make it a very pleasent experience waiting for a train. Train stations can often be scary places but this certainly isn't!


----------



## Kiss the Rain

Love the new station, good to see the chinese railway stations finally getting some facelift.


----------



## pflo777

http://sg.biz.yahoo.com/061025/3/44ass.html


..... 
Chinese authorities will likely commission an extension to the high-speed magnetic levitation railway line built in Shanghai by Transrapid, according to the German industrial consortium behind the technology."From what we hear from our Chinese partners, a 35 kilometre (22 mile) extension is what's being planned first off," Hans-Christoph Atzpodien, a senior official at Transrapid consortium member ThyssenKrupp , said in Berlin. T 
..... 
..... 

Atzpodien said the extension should link the existing 30 kilometre stretch between the city's financial centre and the Pudong airport to Shanghai's second airport Hongqiao. He added the extension should cover the Shanghai-South railway station as well as a stop for the site for the World Expo in Shanghai, which the city is due to hold in 2010. Atzpodien noted that a decision on the project, which he said would hopefully be completed by 2010, could follow soon, because it would largely be made by Shanghai alone. 

Transrapid had been hoping to secure a contract to build a 200 kilometre extension, but Atzpodien said there would likely be no quick decision made on that front. 
.....


----------



## staff

Echang03 said:


> Uhhhh.....not really feeling the purple seats...lol but the stations look pretty special, like an airport.
> 
> Are these newly built?


Yes, it's all new.

In the Shanghai metro, every individual lines use a different colour of the trains (both inside and outside), and even different trains on some of the lines.


----------



## kocovic

Golden Loon said:


> hahahaha
> all the shanghainese pointed their gun toward me
> you guys think that i have never been to shanghai? well i have been to most major cities of china and taken the magnetic-levitated train
> u know what i mean－－面子工程，a construction that is only to let the the world to praise the development of the communist in china, how stupid it is, you guys know the truth clearly, how many people take the train daily? don't tell me the bullshit like technological advancement , WTF, u shanghainese invent the magnetic-levitation? don't be that naive, even german and japanese give up to use that technology that is non-practical!
> 
> even their givernment does badly , but no people dare to complain or whatever, you guys just read the newspaper that praise your government everyday, shit




说老实话你这个人就是一陀屎，中国人中的败类


----------



## z0rg

google_abcd said:


> Heihei, Guangzhou is also expanding its metro length to 255km before 2009 and 650km by 2020.


Do you have a map for those 650?


----------



## nick_-_taylor

magz said:


> Shanghai Subway Network system by 2020
> By 2010, shanghai would have more than 400 km subway network. Currently, only 100+ km.
> By 2020, at least 800+ km.
> 
> This map is a little bit old, there're some minor changes since then.
> 
> 1.M4: scheduled to open by the end of this year(2005).
> 2.R2 west extension: scheduled to open by mid of 2006.
> 3.M3 north extension: scheduled to open by mid of 2006.
> 4.L4: completed by the end of 2006.
> 5.M8: completed by mid of 2006.
> 6.R4: west part of it would be completed before 2006.
> 7.M7: still in construction, don't know the time to be completed.
> 8.M1,R3 will be started soon


So in 2020, Shanghai will have 800km of commuter railway, metro and light rail, and that there will be:

4 Commuter Railway Lines
8 Underground Lines
5 Light Railway Lines

Does anyone have exact figures for the future Shanghai network of 8 lines cause surely that isn't 800km?


----------



## staff

^^
All lines on that map are metro lines. I'm not sure why they are branded differently (R/M/L etc.).


----------



## z0rg

^^ Are you sure? I thought that L lines meant light lines.


----------



## nick_-_taylor

So where do the R-Lines go? They seem to leave the map completely...are you sure that someone hasn't become confused and automatically assumed that the map is all metro when by the looks of it more looks like:

*R*: *R*egional-Commuter Trains
*M*: *M*etro
*L*: *L*ight Railway

Does anyone have figures for the *M* lines which look more like metro lines?


----------



## z0rg

As far as I know, there're planned over 800 km. Around 50% underground, the rest are communter and light rail lines. However, not every line has been added to the map yet since they're still under study. Plus, these 800 km don't include the maglev.

More maps

Red= Underground
Green= Light 
Blue= Regional (some parts are underground)
Orange= Maglev (approved extension not drawn)


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

I used to think that the planned Shanghai network was really gonna be amazing, but now it just looks terribly lame. The fact that theres only gonna be 800 km when u include the commuter rails is just pitiful. Tokyo and NYC both have well over 2000 km when u include commuter rails and subways. The coverage is very sparse in the plans and there is a lack of legit local/express four track service. The network better not end up like this


----------



## z0rg

^^ Come one, they'll build more lines after this map becomes a reality. Shanghai subway was opened in 1995!


----------



## The Cebuano Exultor

*@ z0rg*

If Shanghai wants to become an Alpha World City like Tokyo, New York, Paris, and London it has to build more than just 700 km of new railway lines!


----------



## staff

z0rg,
None of these L-lines exist today, so I guess we'd have to wait. I'm sure it will be heavy rail though.

Nick Taylor,
You could think that, but it's not the case. I live on top of a station serving three lines, and all of them are heavy rail Metro. One of them, which is completely underground and one of the main metro lines in Shanghai (the number 2, going from east to west), is strangely enough labeled as an R-line in the map above.

The R1 line on this map is the busiest, first built and main metro line in Shanghai.

The L lines (none of them exist as of today) could be planned LRT lines though, but I higly doubt it.


----------



## nick_-_taylor

staff said:


> z0rg,
> None of these L-lines exist today, so I guess we'd have to wait. I'm sure it will be heavy rail though.
> 
> Nick Taylor,
> You could think that, but it's not the case. I live on top of a station serving three lines, and all of them are heavy rail Metro. One of them, which is completely underground and one of the main metro lines in Shanghai (the number 2, going from east to west), is strangely enough labeled as an R-line in the map above.
> 
> The R1 line on this map is the busiest, first built and main metro line in Shanghai.
> 
> The L lines (none of them exist as of today) could be planned LRT lines though, but I higly doubt it.


I'm not disputing the fact that the Shanghai network is growing rapidly (although for the city its size it should have been done earlier and on an even larger scale). Yet 800km when you include commuter rail (and light rail) doesn't sound as impressive as the original statement made about it all being metro lines does it! By the looks of it R1 would appear to be a lot like an RER line than a proper metro line what with the extensions that would appear to be going to the far south and north would illustrate this fact. Yet I dread to imagine what it will be like with all those extensions if its already seriously overcrowded. Also having an "L" for the line would probably indicate that its a light-rail line or a system a lot like say the DLR.

800km over some 7,000km² is a start, but theres going to have to be lots more if Shanghai really wants to compare to other cities in terms of size of heavy rail and thats even before you factor in the population! Good work though.

Do you have however the figures for all built, u/c and proposed route lengths for the combined M1, M2, M3, M4, M5, M6, M7 and M8? Although by the looks of it M3 & M4 share route length for some time?


----------



## z0rg

^^ Constructing over 70 km a year is a good number. I hope they were even faster, but it's okay. Guangzhou is constructing close to 100 km yearly I think.


----------



## staff

Nick Taylor,
All I'm saying is that the lines on that map (perhaps excluding the L-lines since they don't exist at all, and may be planned LRT lines - which I doubt) are Metro lines. The lines that are labeled R1 and R2 exist and they are by all means metro lines. Visit Shanghai and you'll see. 

I agree that the system should have been expanded (or even constructed) earlier, but it will most probably be one of the 3 largest in the world by 2010, and perhaps the world's largest by 2020.

So it's all good.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

So we have established that the lines with R, L, and M labels are unreliable. So from the way things look, it seems that all 800 kms are metro lines. Now comes the question for commuter rails. It appears that Shanghai officials have not even thought about commuter services yet. How can a city with 7000 sq km and population well over 20 million in the metro area not have commuter trains supplementing the 800 km of metros? This might be potentially problematic when Shanghainese begin to develop their suburbs...


----------



## nick_-_taylor

staff said:


> Nick Taylor,
> All I'm saying is that the lines on that map (perhaps excluding the L-lines since they don't exist at all, and may be planned LRT lines - which I doubt) are Metro lines. The lines that are labeled R1 and R2 exist and they are by all means metro lines. Visit Shanghai and you'll see.
> 
> I agree that the system should have been expanded (or even constructed) earlier, but it will most probably be one of the 3 largest in the world by 2010, and perhaps the world's largest by 2020.
> 
> So it's all good.


So the map is made to be confusing?

What I don't understand is the blue lines - clearly they seem to be the "R-Lines". Granted at the moment they are either short or disconnected, but by the looks of with the future expansion it they appear to be RER-like - out one end of the city and out the other.

You can't honestly say that in the map re-posted in my last post is not the 800km network?


----------



## z0rg

According to wikipedia, R lines are underground too despite of not being labeled as M (metro) lines. Ony L lines are on the surface.


----------



## staff

Nick Taylor,
I have no idea wheather the map is the 800 km one, or not. I don't even know if this figure is correct, or if the map posted above comes from official sources, or if it's home made by a forumer. 

All I can say is that the R-lines on that map is without a doubt metro lines, and nothing else. 

z0rg,
Two of the lines labeled as "M" on that map run on elevated tracks on quite long parts (and underground in the rest).


----------



## nick_-_taylor

So if you're coming from the far north on that blue line, you'd then change onto R1 and then at the end of R1 change onto another line despite them pretty much being the same continuous line?

If anything the R-Lines sound a lot like RER lines: underground in the city, but above ground and far out into the surrounding metro.

But does anyone have figures for the M-Lines!


----------



## staff

Nick,
I'm not sure which "blue line" you are talking about. The red line (labeled as R1 on this map, but M1 in reality) is the main north-south metro line in Shanghai today, just as the green line (labeled R2 here, M2 in reality) is the main east-west line. 

The purple "R1 line" is more of a 'commuter train' like line, even though it is metro by definition. It only runs in the suburbs anyway, since the red R1-line ends pretty much where the city ends.

All the R-lines are metro and completely underground (except for two stations on the red line, and that purple line which for some reason is labeled R1 too).

As I said before, I don't even know if this map is a fantasy drawing or from an official source.
If you want to use this map as a source anyway, I suggest you ignore all the line names (R, M, L etc.) since they don't reflect reality at all.

What figures do you want for the M-lines? Two of the lines that are labeled as M on that map exists today - the M3 and M4. These lines are party underground and partly elevated. The stretch where they run side by side is the elevated part (pretty much).

These lines exist today:

"R1" (Purple) - Exactly the same type (rolling stock, frequency, whatever) as all the other lines, with the difference that it runs in the suburbs. So I guess you could call it an "RER-like" line if you want.

"R1" (Red) - The first metro line that was built in Shanghai. It runs from north to south.

"R2" - The main line that runs from east to west. 

"M3" - Runs mainly on elevated tracks in the city center. 

"M4" - The first ring line in Shanghai. Runs on elevated tracks together with M3, and the rest is underground.

All of these lines that exist today is the same kind of type. The M3 and M4 lines have newer trains (the older lines are being upgraded with the same trains). All the trains and stations on all the existing lines (including the purple R1) have the Shanghai Metro logo and so on.
If anything, the lines that are labeled M3 and M4 on this map are the "least" metro-like since they run on quite long stretches of elevated tracks instead of underground.

I hope this clarifies a thing or two.


Maybe the blue lines on this map are proposed commuter train lines. I have no idea.


----------



## leo_sh

R is Regional Express Line, not Regional Commuter Line. R lines go underground in downtown, like a usual subway train, then go above ground (mostly elevated) in suburbs and go underground again in satellite towns.

M is Metropolitan Line, which covers only downtown area.

L is Suburban Light Rail, which connects downtown peripheries (underground) and suburban settlements (mostly elevated). 

All R, M, L lines can go underground or elevated when it is necessary. Most of M3 is elevated while L4 is largely underground. All R, M, L stop between somewhat same distance in the downtown area. By nature, all R, M, L lines can be described as subway or metro according to the classical European or North American definition. R lines can in no ways be compared to RER of Paris.

Shanghai has its own commuter trains, which are operated by the national railway board and connect downtown area with suburban districts like Songjiang, Jinshan, Jiading and neighbouring cities like Kunshan, Jiaxing, Suzhou, Hangzhou. One section of the rails formerly used by commuter trains were recently upgraded to Metro Line 3 (M3).

R, M, L are labels only used in the planning phase. After the start of the construction, all lines acquire theirs respective Metro Line numbers. But now even those lines not yet started to build are no more mentioned by R, M, L, since those labels do not say much about their realizations. For example, M3 really goes out of the core downtown into the satellite town of Wusong; L4 goes right through some core downtown areas.

Since 1995, Metro Line 1(R1),2(R2),3(M3),4(M4),5(R1a, actually an L) have been openned. Metro Line 8(M8) has finished its construction and installation, is now waiting for test operation. The construction work of Line 6(L4) and 9(R4) has been mostly finished, are now in the phase of equipment installation. Lines 7(M7), 10(M1), 11(R3) are now in construction. According to some reports, Line 12(M2) & 13(M5) may also be openned before Expo 2010, though originally scheduled for 2012.


----------



## staff

leo_sh said:


> *By nature, all R, M, L lines can be described as subway or metro according to the classical European or North American definition. R lines can in no ways be compared to RER of Paris*...[...]...*R, M, L are labels only used in the planning phase. After the start of the construction, all lines acquire theirs respective Metro Line numbers.* But now even those lines not yet started to build are no more mentioned by R, M, L, since those labels do not say much about their realizations.


Thanks for clarifying this! 
If I understand this correctly, all the lines on that future-map will be metro lines? 

Very refreshing to get some reliable info on (any) projects in Shanghai - it's very hard to find, especially on an English speaking forum such as this.

Do you know where to find more info on the transportation systems in Shanghai? Preferably in English.


----------



## leo_sh

staff said:


> Thanks for clarifying this!
> If I understand this correctly, all the lines on that future-map will be metro lines?
> 
> Very refreshing to get some reliable info on (any) projects in Shanghai - it's very hard to find, especially on an English speaking forum such as this.
> 
> Do you know where to find more info on the transportation systems in Shanghai? Preferably in English.


Yes. The Municipality of Shanghai is not that huge as it looks like on the map. When the whole network is finished, you can reach the downtown from any station in the municipality within 30 min. If you want to directly reach the satellite towns like Songjiang, Anting, or Jinshan, the commuter trains are actually more preferable. R lines are more for smaller settlements along the route.

I got my infos mostly from www.nhmetro.org, which is a very good forum, but, of course, in Chinese. Jeg vil ogsa ikke forsoke a finde mye om dansk T-banen pa Engelsk. It is frequented by metro fans like me, as well as by the staff of the SH Metro and SH Modern Transp., the two metro operators in the town, so now and then you can get some insider stories.


----------



## nick_-_taylor

So those R Lines are part of the Shanghai Subway despite them looking a lot like RER lines as they stretch out into the metro area?


----------



## staff

^^
They are metro lines.


----------



## nick_-_taylor

So the blue lines (according to the map in post # 85) that go out of the city into the metro area are metro lines? So how comes the R Lines in that future map go off the map if they are metro lines, surely you'd show them to the teminus and not just going off into who knows where?

Don't get me wrong, I just feel that a bit of exaggeration is being used here for what is already spectacular developments and it becomes blurred and confusing when it really shouldn't!


----------



## staff

Nick,
I have no idea what the blue lines on the map in post #85 are. Everything I've said in this thread has been referring to the "future map" (which I don't even know if it's reliable or not).

Supposedly, as I've said before, the blue lines on the post #85-map are planned (?) commuter train lines, since they seem to be routed along the same tracks as the regional trains (to Nanjing, Suzhou, Hangzhou etc.) run on. That has nothing to do with the "future map" that was posted before though.

I don't see the point why anyone would exaggerate anything that's happening in Shanghai right now. Rather the opposite - there is just so much going on it's impossible to comprehend. That's probably why it can seem "blurred and confusing" (as you put it) as well - especially for an 'outsider', so to speak.


----------



## nick_-_taylor

But the 'future detailed map' clearly shows the R-Lines going off the map... I'm not degrading the system, but highlighting that they are probably more akin to the first phase of RER-type lines, running from the metro area, under the city and then out into the metro area at the other end.

Also surely blurred and confusing should be left to the older less integrated networks


----------



## staff

I don't really get how they become RER-lines just because they happen to stretch out a little further than the map shows. Would you consider them metro lines if the map showed a bigger area? 
The areas which these lines stretch out to is still very, very urban and dense. It's not like they're single family homes sprawly areas.

I'm sure you would without a doubt consider them metro lines if you would come to Shanghai and ride the metro.


----------



## nick_-_taylor

Well they would appear to extend for quite a long distance. Some consider the RER a metro - RER A is exceptionally busy....but its still a hybrid commuter system which draws people in from the metro area.

That isn't anything to be ashamed about, but it would re-calculate the actual situation that the 800km figures is for ALL of the metro area which includes non-metro rail length is a completely different kettle of fish.


----------



## staff

I don't think the RER is the mainly used form of transport within the city center of Paris - the metro is. Just like the the metro of Shanghai, including those lines that happen to stretch a little bit outside that map (but still exclusively running in dense urban environment).
Fact is, two of those lines that you claim are RER-lines, are actually the two most used metro lines in the city center of Shanghai. Hell, I ride on line "R2" every day to and from school - and I both live and work in the central city! 
I think you'd realize that calling those lines RER-like would be rather absurd if you visit the city and ride the metro. 

The 800km figure could very well be for all types of rail transit or something similar - I have never said that that figure is for metro alone. I don't even know if this figure is reliable at all (where does it come from, anyway?).
It wouldn't be surprised if it's for metro alone though, considering the general development in this city.

The fact that Shanghai will have one of the largest metro network in the world within just a few years, and perhaps the largest network by, say, 2020-2025 is something that we have to accept whether we like it or not.


----------



## Sidel

Is someone from Shanghai here? I really need a help from someone who lives there. 
I'm from Portugal and I'm doing a project in Shanghai, in the area closed with Shanghai Mansions, in front of the Zhapu Rd Bridge and the Wai Baidu Bridge.
I'm going there next 17th November but I really need some good pictures from this place and from the buildings facades for now.

If you can help me, please feel free to contact me.


----------



## Kiss the Rain

Hope all of the stations across the country will be like that.


----------



## superchan7

It's called intellectual property regulation. In a way, it's to prevent unruly warfare over who gets credit for what. If left uncontrolled, people will begin killing each other to receive credit for work that they didn't do.

It's true that the systems in mainland China were built after purchasing consultation and designs from Hong Kong's MTR. This is a convenient, time-saving way to quickly get a railway up and running instead of having to design your own and having to test for public response.

However, because China is only just beginning to enter the developed world, people are seeing these technologies and innovations for the first time, and many mistakenly think that they were designed and produced locally.

I think that over time, when China will find it more fitting and efficient to design its own systems, the subways of the various cities will gradually evolve in their own unique ways. We are already seeing it in systems such as Shanghai (elevated lines, platform gates, locally-made trains) and Shenzhen (sleek and elegant stations, I could easily be jealous!).


----------



## Pax Sinica

You can always find a reason to **** someone that you hate.

First,


> Basically the thing abour PRC is that they will pinch other's ideas *without acknowledgement*.


A fact is that


> HK MTR holds 50% shares in Shenzhen and Guangzhou MTR. The design was in charge by HK MTR. To say copying MTR is so ridiculous.


Then,


> It doesn't matter, all PRC cares about is being the best in the world and using other people's ideas instead of inventing their own.


What's "It doesn't matter"? You accuse PRC of stealing other's ideas without acknowledgement and that's a wrong accusation.You can always find a reason to **** someone that you hate.

First,


> Basically the thing abour PRC is that they will pinch other's ideas *without acknowledgement*.


A fact is that


> HK MTR holds 50% shares in Shenzhen and Guangzhou MTR. The design was in charge by HK MTR. To say copying MTR is so ridiculous.


Then,


> It doesn't matter, all PRC cares about is being the best in the world and using other people's ideas instead of inventing their own.


What's "It doesn't matter"? You accuse PRC of stealing other's ideas without acknowledgement and that's a wrong accusation. The Japanese font argument also sounds like a joke. All words in PRC subway signs are in simplified Chinese and they don't even exist in Japan. To creat a thousand new Chinese words in the same font is much more troublesome than to completely use his own font because he must learn every strokes by the original writer to ensure a consistent style.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

*Shanghai Metro Update*

Aren't two extensions, one north from Jiangwan on Line 3 and one west from Zhongshan Park on Line 2 supposed to have been completed in the past few days? If they were, then urbanrail.net certainly didn't update them so I was wondering if anyone has those really updated pics?


----------



## staff

The line 3 extension is all ready in operation, and the line 2 extension beyond Zhongshan Gongyuan will be in operation from this weekend.


----------



## Bitxofo

Any photos, please?
:?


----------



## hkth

Xinhua news:
Shanghai to have 400 km urban rail lines in 2010


----------



## liwentao_tom

*Shanghai Subway and Maglev*

The Shanghai subway is one of the youngest in the world and is among the most rapidly expanding.
By the end of 2006, Shanghai has already opened the network of five subways , the total length is 145 kilometers .
This year, three new lines and extension of two lines will be opened . By the end of the year, the total length of subway of Shanghai will exceed 230 kilometers. (not include magnetic suspension) 
And before 2010.it will exceed 400KM 

10 April 1995 - Line 1 Shanghai Railway Station - Jinjiang Playground (16.1 km, 13 stations)
1996: Line 1 Jinjiang - Xin Zhuang (5.3 km, 4 stations)
28 Oct 1999 - Line 2 Zhong Shan Park - Long Yang Rd (16.4 km - 12 stations) (regular service since 13 June 2000)
26 Dec 2000 - Line 2 Long Yang Rd - Zhangjiang (2.8 km, 0.8km underground)
26 Dec 2000 - Pearl Line (Line 3) open for trial operation (25 km - 22 km elevated)
25 Nov 2003 - Line 5 (Xinmin Line) open for trial operation 
28 Dec 2004 - Line 1 Shanghai Railway Station - Gong Fu Xin Cun (12.4 km, 4.2 km underground - 3 stations, 8.2 km elevated)
31 Dec 2005 - Line 4 Bao Shan Road - Lan Cun Road and Da Mu Qiao Road - Yi Shan Road
18 Dec 2006 - Line 3 Jiang Wan Zhen - Jiangyang Bei Road (14 km)
30 Dec 2006 - Line 2 Zhongshan Park - Songhong Road (6.2 km)











The subway plan for shanghai for 2012


----------



## liwentao_tom

*pictures for line1*

line1 (from http://metrofans.sh.cn)
























































































There are several screens in each stations.You can know the arrival time for the next 4 trains( Calculate with second).


----------



## liwentao_tom

*line2*

line2


----------



## liwentao_tom

*line3*

line3


----------



## fishcatdogbird

Nice!


----------



## liwentao_tom

*line4*

line4


----------



## pflo777

interesting...the maglev extension is already included in the plan, also the extension towards hanghzhou....

hmh...last thing I heard was, that they wanted to start building it by the end of 2006(!)......any news?


----------



## liwentao_tom

*line5*

line5


----------



## liwentao_tom

*Maglev*

Maglev


----------



## en

Nice information

Does anyone know why they chose to terminate the long distance (intercity trains) at stations outside of the city centre, like in Hongqiao (Beijing-Shanghai) and South Station (Hangzhou-Shanghai)?


----------



## napkcirtap

en said:


> Nice information
> 
> Does anyone know why they chose to terminate the long distance (intercity trains) at stations outside of the city centre, like in Hongqiao (Beijing-Shanghai) and South Station (Hangzhou-Shanghai)?


Shanghai railway station is jammed and can’t accommodate any more trains. Plus there are only two tracks leading into center shanghai, and there isn’t any space to put new tracks for the CRH. That’s why they’re selected hongqiao. The Hongqiao CRH Station is adjacent to the Hongqiao Int’l Airport. This makes it easier for commuters to transfer to airlines. (Hongqiao Airport has mainly functioned as a domestic airport ever since PVG opened) Maglev also has a spur line that branches off at Xinzhuang(莘庄), linking the main line (PVG--Expo—Shanghai South Railway Station—Hangchow) with Hongqiao.


----------



## liwentao_tom

*some more pictures for maglve*


----------



## Jiangwho

^^ COOL.


----------



## jorgemed

nice...


----------



## raymond_tung88

The Maglev looks amazing. I think with all the amazing construction in China, its hard to keep track of everything. I just wanted to know if there was going to be a Maglev extension to Hangzhou and would it pass through the 2010 Expo site?


----------



## liwentao_tom

raymond_tung88 said:


> The Maglev looks amazing. I think with all the amazing construction in China, its hard to keep track of everything. I just wanted to know if there was going to be a Maglev extension to Hangzhou and would it pass through the 2010 Expo site?


The route joining Hongchiao Airport and Pudong International airport will start building after the Spring Festival, set out from Longyang Road Station, set up three station on the way(Expo Site Station,Shanghai South Railway Station,Hongqiao Station).It will be finish before2010.

The Maglev extension to Hangzhou doesn't have any news.


----------



## raymond_tung88

liwentao_tom said:


> The route joining Hongchiao Airport and Pudong International airport will start building after the Spring Festival, set out from Longyang Road Station, set up three station on the way(Expo Site Station,Shanghai South Railway Station,Hongqiao Station).It will be finish before2010.
> 
> The Maglev extension to Hangzhou doesn't have any news.


I'm guessing since they're going to be building a Maglev stop at Hongqiao that it will remain in use for a while? I once heard that they were going to close it and move all domestic flights to Pudong International.


----------



## superchan7

I agree with a renovated Hongqiao Domestic Airport. I believe its current state is saturated with passengers.

Pudong Int'l is too far away. Maglev is not conveniently connected to central Shanghai; with better connections and more transport options Pudong should experience increased ridership.


----------



## pflo777

> will start building after the Spring Festival


is that for sure?
they stated so often that they start contstruction soon, but never did so!

Do you have a source for that?
Btw, will the current maglev line stop service during construction or not?


----------



## liwentao_tom

pflo777 said:


> is that for sure?
> they stated so often that they start contstruction soon, but never did so!
> 
> Do you have a source for that?
> Btw, will the current maglev line stop service during construction or not?


it's for sure.Now, those residents along the line are moving.
The current maglev line will not stop service during construction.

The Chinese Central Government will sanction this project before the Spring Festival. (this Spring Festival is February 18) 
The hopeful new route section fabrication cost sanctioned is 1,200 million dollars. The construction expenses of the new route section are equivalent to twice of the magnetic suspension fabrication cost of first, because will build a tunnel crossing the Huangpu River this time, should add and build 3 stations at the same time , the running route will also pass through the city center . The price of the steel went up by a lot than 5 years ago too at present. In order to obtain this project, two companies in Germany have to make a lot of concessions.


----------



## DiggerD21

The Maglev as a link between the domestic and the international airport? Sounds good and could make both airports practically to one huge airport, but with a lot of airspace for approaching and departing planes.
Has the ridership of the Maglev now increased to a reasonable level or are the trains still driving with almost no passengers?
I must say, I don't like the overhead wire solution of the metro.


----------



## raymond_tung88

superchan7 said:


> I agree with a renovated Hongqiao Domestic Airport. I believe its current state is saturated with passengers.
> 
> Pudong Int'l is too far away. Maglev is not conveniently connected to central Shanghai; with better connections and more transport options Pudong should experience increased ridership.


Well, if they're extending the Maglev line into Central Shanghai, I think closing Hongqiao should be possible but they're building a Maglev stop there so I guess it will still continue to be open... 

It just seems that with the expansion of Pudong International, its just easier to maintain one airport than having to maintain two. BTW, does anyone have pictures of Hongqiao Airport?


----------



## zergcerebrates

Must they use German colors? :


----------



## liwentao_tom

Hongqiao Airport will not close , will extend. Will build up a large-scale junction there , will join the Beijing-Shanghai high-speed railway, maglve, 5 subways and Hongqiao Airport new boat station buildings.


----------



## liwentao_tom

zergcerebrates said:


> Must they use German colors? :


Did not mean it, but really the color of the German national flag. The sign color of No.5 Route should be mauve.


----------



## staff

DiggerD2,
I took a round-trip today on the Maglev and it was packed with people in both directions. The Maglev also been pretty much full all other times I've taken it.


----------



## Buster

The Maglev's awesome. . .and the subway's good. It's nice to see a city that's making public transportation a priority!


----------



## Karakuri

Yeah! The Transrapid is awesome. I don't expected less from German technology!!!


----------



## pflo777

> it's for sure.Now, those residents along the line are moving.
> The current maglev line will not stop service during construction.
> 
> The Chinese Central Government will sanction this project before the Spring Festival. (this Spring Festival is February 18)
> The hopeful new route section fabrication cost sanctioned is 1,200 million dollars. The construction expenses of the new route section are equivalent to twice of the magnetic suspension fabrication cost of first, because will build a tunnel crossing the Huangpu River this time, should add and build 3 stations at the same time , the running route will also pass through the city center . The price of the steel went up by a lot than 5 years ago too at present. In order to obtain this project, two companies in Germany have to make a lot of concessions.


So, Spring Festival aleady started right?

I mean, it this thing is already u/c, or if they tear down the houses at the future location of it, we could start a Shanghai Maglev under construction thread.

I would be very exited about the pictures


----------



## staff

Sure, start one if you want.
I could take pictures as I kinda live in the area.


----------



## pflo777

Ok,well, I am far away from shanghai so it would really be up to you and maybe celestar0 to update such a consturciton thread.

Maybe we start with the pictures, and as soon as you made them, you post them here or you open up directly the new thread.

Right now, as far as I know, they sarted to move out the people, so if you want, you could start taking pictures in the area, where the maglev will be built later on, at Shanghai south Railway station or at the end of the current line in Longyang Road...


----------



## zergcerebrates

Wow they are extending? I can't wait to see Maglev running through Shanghai that will be awesome!


----------



## EricIsHim

Shanghai is blooming. It makes no sense to close down Hongqiao.
If only Pudong is operated, I am sure there will be a need to expand the airport or find a new one in the very near future. By operating both airports at the same time, it can split up both domestic and international services.
Look at Taipei, Tokyo, New York, London, Chicago and other big cities around the world, everyone have more than one airports to serve both domestic and international need. If Megalav can connect the two airports, it is a benefit to both airports and Shanghai.


----------



## kingart

What is the expected completion date for line 8 of the Shanghai metro?


----------



## napkcirtap

kingart said:


> What is the expected completion date for line 8 of the Shanghai metro?


late 2007.
three lines(6,8,9-initial segment) and hopefully the beltway line4 would all start running by the end of 2007


----------



## pflo777

today, the German newspaper "sueddeutsche Zeitung" ( southgerman Newspaper--haha) reports, that construction for the extension to Honquiao has already started and that between 6000-8000 families are moving out of their homes right now.

The ariticle states, that the maglev platforms at Shanghai south railway station are already complete (?????)
Altogether the line from Longyang Road staion to Honquiao is 37 km and hast three staions. ( Honquiao-Expo- and South Station )

The strangest aspect is, that the start building the extension of the transrapid maglev line without the german transrapid cosortium knowing about it.!!!!!


http://www.sueddeutsche.de/,tt3m2/wirtschaft/artikel/750/104646/

unfotunately only in german


----------



## superchan7

lol. I don't think it has happened. Must be misunderstanding.


----------



## UD2

I wouldn't be surprised if the consturciton of the buildings have already been planned and started. All that'll be missing will going to be the tracks.

i think the Chinese are confident that they will come to a deal with the Germans.


----------



## wap-190

City's 2nd maglev approved to link airport
By Winny Wang 2007-3-22 

CHINA'S top planning body has approved the construction of a maglev stretch from Longyang Road to Hongqiao Airport in Shanghai, as part of the Shanghai-Hangzhou maglev project, 21st Century Business Herald reported today.

The city government began relocating residents and setting aside land for the stretch in October 2006, the report quoted an anonymous insider as saying.

The stretch will start from Longyang Road Station, the terminal of the current maglev line that links Longyang Road and Pudong International Airport, across the World Expo site, Shanghai South Railway Station to Hongqiao Airport.

Construction on the stretches from downtown Shanghai to Jiaxing, and from Jiaxing to Hangzhou, may begin after 2010, the report said.

The approval of the Shanghai stretch is partly because of the 2010 Shanghai World Expo, which is expected to host 70 million people from overseas countries and regions from May 1 to October 31, 2010, the report said.

"Transport during the Expo will depend on Metro lines, especially lines linking the Expo site to airports and railway stations," said Sun Zhang, a professor of Tongji University.

from ShanghaiDaily.com


----------



## pflo777

so does anybody know if we can have construction pictures?

If they started clearing the track back in october 2006, therer must be something visible right now....


----------



## staff

Actually I have been looking for Maglev construction sites but now been able to find it yet. Does anyone have a map of the exact stretch of the Pudong-Hongqiao Maglev rail?

I've been fooled many times since the metro station construction sites have pictures of Bullet- and Maglev trains on the billboards. There are more than a hundred metro stations under construction in Shanghai right now which makes it even more hard.


----------



## pflo777

Only the part left of the Longyang Station sign is under construction 
The brench on the lower left corner is also NOT uc, its the extension to Hangzhou.


----------



## staff

Um, actually I was at the Longyang Lu Zhan a couple of weeks ago and didn't notice any construction whatsoever. There are even some buildings blocking the way where the maglev rail will supposedly be extended.


----------



## pflo777

those Buildings at LongYang road Station will be the first to be scrapped.

From what I heard, the officials say that it was a planning mistake in 2004, that those buildings were erected there.










you can see these buildings on the very left

Send us pictures, as soon as you see construction, or destruction starting there.....


----------



## MasonicStage™

wooow! Maglev is stunningkay: Thnx


----------



## chao

pflo777 said:


>


地上本没有路,走的人多了也就成了路,it is a pity


----------



## sequoia

pflo777 said:


> those Buildings at LongYang road Station will be the first to be scrapped.
> 
> From what I heard, the officials say that it was a planning mistake in 2004, that those buildings were erected there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you can see these buildings on the very left
> 
> Send us pictures, as soon as you see construction, or destruction starting there.....


What a good planning mistake! Those poor residental buildings will only have 4-year's life. People who's planning this should get shot.


----------



## pflo777

well, I wouldn`t take it too serious, I have seen mistakes like this happening all over the world.

I would be intersested in knowing when exactly those building will be erased.

I will be in Shanghai this summer around August, I wonder if they will still be there by then......we`ll see...


edit: I found another picture........


----------



## rec

As far as I know these residential highrises are not going to be demolished. The Maglev station will be rebuilt above the neighboring subway station instead so that the stretch can be extended without affecting these buildings.


----------



## staff

Wouldn't it be a lot more expensive to relocate the whole station, and move the magnetic tracks etc. instead of just demolishing the buildings?


----------



## big-dog

I believe to move the station is cheaper, the buildings themselves are not an issue, the residents relocation is a big cost.


----------



## pflo777

*Shanghai Maglev Extension---the 25 th approval*

Time and again, the Chinese government approves the extension of the maglev to Hanghzhou...

If it will really be built...well, thats the question....

Shanghai Hangzhou maglev gets official nod of approval... 


This was reported by the CHINAdaily on Thu Apr 26 2007 13:15:00 GMT+0200.

Somebody here who can confirm this?


----------



## Andrew

I thought it was just the Hongqiao airport extension that had been approved so that it's built in time for the 2010 world expo. I don't know about the status of the Hangzhou line.


----------



## UD2

ah what's the point. Build a 300km/h HSR between the two places and use the rest of the money to actually help the poor.

one line between the airports is more than enough to study the technology.


----------



## hkskyline

*Metro officials opt for the long haul *
5 July 2007
Shanghai Daily

Bigger, it seems, is better when it comes to the city's overtaxed Metro Line 1. 

Commuters can expect less-crowded trains on the busiest line thanks to increased carriage numbers that are being phased in over the course of the year. 

The Shanghai Metro Co Ltd said 18 eight-carriage trains will be running on Line 1, improving capacity by up to 23 percent. Eight-carriage trains can carry 800 more passengers than the traditional six-carriage variety. 

The first eight-carriage train, purchased from German manufacturer Alstrom, hit Line 1 in late January. 

The Metro company ordered 16 eight-car trains from Alstrom. Eight of these completed extensive testing before beginning service. 

And six-car trains are being revamped to add two extra carriages. 

Metro officials said they recently completed tests on older Line 1 trains with the added carriages. 

The first one was put into service yesterday, increasing the number of eight-car trains on the line from eight to nine. 

The nine extra-capacity trains will help carry eight percent more passengers during morning rush hours, the Metro authority said. 

There will be 18 eight-car trains running on Metro Line 1 before the end of the year, 14 of them new and four revamped. 

By then, Metro Line 1 will be able to handle up to 23 percent more commuters during rush hours, according to Metro operators. 

About 1.1 million daily commuters use Metro Line 1, which runs north and south.


----------



## Cristovão471

The control room of the maglev looks so complicated, lol.


----------



## Stefan88

Nice pictures. The Shanghai subway looks so clean compared to others that I've seen.
The Maglev is brilliant.


----------



## BrockSamson

Wait, a gazillion dollar Transrapid train doesn't come with air conditioning for the driver?


----------



## addisonwesley

Shanghai has an Ad-Free subway?! How can they afford it?


----------



## zergcerebrates

addisonwesley said:


> Shanghai has an Ad-Free subway?! How can they afford it?


Its not ad free. Some cars have a lot of ads on them outside and inside. And if you notice the adfree like train in one of the pic theres LCD screens next to the doors so theres your ad.


----------



## Augusto

hkskyline said:


> *Metro officials opt for the long haul *
> 5 July 2007
> Shanghai Daily
> 
> Bigger, it seems, is better when it comes to the city's overtaxed Metro Line 1.
> 
> Commuters can expect less-crowded trains on the busiest line thanks to increased carriage numbers that are being phased in over the course of the year.
> 
> The Shanghai Metro Co Ltd said 18 eight-carriage trains will be running on Line 1, improving capacity by up to 23 percent. Eight-carriage trains can carry 800 more passengers than the traditional six-carriage variety.
> 
> The first eight-carriage train, purchased from German manufacturer Alstrom, hit Line 1 in late January.
> 
> The Metro company ordered 16 eight-car trains from Alstrom. Eight of these completed extensive testing before beginning service.
> 
> And six-car trains are being revamped to add two extra carriages.
> 
> Metro officials said they recently completed tests on older Line 1 trains with the added carriages.
> 
> The first one was put into service yesterday, increasing the number of eight-car trains on the line from eight to nine.
> 
> The nine extra-capacity trains will help carry eight percent more passengers during morning rush hours, the Metro authority said.
> 
> There will be 18 eight-car trains running on Metro Line 1 before the end of the year, 14 of them new and four revamped.
> 
> By then, Metro Line 1 will be able to handle up to 23 percent more commuters during rush hours, according to Metro operators.
> 
> About 1.1 million daily commuters use Metro Line 1, which runs north and south.


Alstom is not german! It's french. They also provide metro trains for Nankin and Singapore.


----------



## ignoramus

Augusto said:


> Alstom is not german! It's french. They also provide metro trains for Nankin and Singapore.


The editor can't even bother to do a simple search on google to determine if:
1. Alstrom or ALSTOM
2. French or german?

But great choice of alstom trains though. They are reliable and good looking.


----------



## Augusto

ignoramus said:


> But great choice of alstom trains though. They are reliable and good looking.


Yes but in Singapore they are a little bit slow to open the door after arriving at a station. Much slower than on Paris line 14 where there are Alstom driverless trains also. Are they driverless in Nankin and Shanghai?


----------



## pflo777




----------



## snow is red

Nice photos

Thank you very much pflo


----------



## superchan7

What is Deng Xiaoping propaganda doing on the maglev???


----------



## petermandelson

superchan7 said:


> What is Deng Xiaoping propaganda doing on the maglev???


for propaganda reason of course


----------



## JOVIMECA

amazing buildings!


----------



## kalbongdad

nice pics


----------



## liwentao_tom

new trains for line 1


----------



## liwentao_tom

line 3


----------



## liwentao_tom

line 4


----------



## liwentao_tom

the new trains and stations for line6,8,9 (the 3 lines will be opened in December this year) 

line 6


----------



## liwentao_tom

line 8


----------



## DJZG

gakei said:


>


lol... impossible that maglev is so simple to drive... and what is about that heater? no money for air-conditioning... very funny...


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

the new line 1 trains are f*cking awesome. 

pretty disappointed with the line 6 and line 8 trains though. theyre so narrow and small that they look more like light rail than legit subways. they should get more trains like those on line 1.


----------



## sequoias

cool pictures.


----------



## petermandelson

pflo777 said:


>


Socialism with Chinese characteristics

even for maglev:laugh:


----------



## liwentao_tom

line 9


----------



## FM 2258

Shanghai is doing wonders for their city. I can't wait to visit but I wish I had a friend that lived there. I do not know any Mandarin or Cantonese. When is this Line 9 supposed to open? ^^


----------



## liwentao_tom

FM 2258 said:


> Shanghai is doing wonders for their city. I can't wait to visit but I wish I had a friend that lived there. I do not know any Mandarin or Cantonese. When is this Line 9 supposed to open? ^^


this coming December


----------



## petermandelson

*Shanghai's high-tech flop*

Foreign visitors to Shanghai marvel at the high-tech link between the airport and the city, a super-fast train without wheels that floats over the track thanks to magnetic levitation. The maglev, built by Chinese a few years ago with the help of Siemens, is the only one of its kind anywhere in the world and is one of the projects that China boosters point to as a sign that the country is now world class. No doubt the maglev is speedy. At its fastest, the maglev reaches over 400 km per hour and makes other high-speed trains like Japan’s Shinkansen and France’s TGV seem like tortoises. And it’s fun to ride. Each car of the maglev has a digital speedometer showing you just how fast the train is going. When the maglev is accelerating in the first half of its journey from the airport, that speedometer is almost hypnotic; I find that it’s hard not to watch, fascinated, as the numbers keep going higher and higher and higher.

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/blog/asiatech/archives/2007/08/shanghais_high-.html


----------



## KB

I would love to sit in that maglev atleast once.


----------



## petermandelson

*Dream of high-speed rail may prove Shanghai politician's final nightmare*

Many of them also pointed out that the existing maglev route has been a commercial failure. It attains a peak speed of 414 kilometers an hour, covering 30 kilometers in 7 minutes, from the city's international airport to a spot on the opposite side of the Huangpu River from central Shanghai. But ticket prices are high and passengers have been few.
"This maglev is not a necessity at all," said Chen Qi, an account executive with an online trading company who lives along the line and has worked with neighbors to oppose the project. "It is not clear who is going to benefit from it. If it is for the World Expo, what happens after the Expo, and who would go straight to the Expo from the airport? People go to their hotels from the airport."

Others have denounced the planned railway as just the kind of prestige project that the city needs to get away from. Why would someone spend around $25 for the maglev when they could spend just $2.65 to get to Hangzhou comfortably in two hours, asked Zhao Huiyu, an environmental law professor who lives along the line.


http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/08/asia/shanghai.php?page=1


----------



## leo_sh

This article is written by Howard French, a guy who keeps bitching about everything Chinese government is doing.

He is also a lousy journalist. He just can't get a lot of facts straight. for example:
1. This line is an airport express line. It is a mass transit line, not meant to be a commercial success.

2. From day one, the peak speed has been 431. During morning and evening shifts, the peak speed is 300. Everybody who did some research knows this.

3. The number of passengers is not enough to make the line a money cow, but is ok, just enough to cover the operationa and maintenance. But it is by no means "few". Any visitors can testify this.

4. The biggest point the protestors are making is not pollution. Most of them just want to use this chance to get out the rundown old residential quarters along the railroads. They are demanding more evacuations. They are not demanding a stop to the project. The most local citizens involved in the discussion are absolutely clear about this. French either did not do enough research or he intentionally omitted the side of the issue to make his story.

All in all, Transrapid project is former premier Zhu's pet project, and realized by Chen's predecessor. Its lengthening has been promised by these two. Basically this project has nothing to do with Chen. Before and after Chen's sacking, a lot of people accused Chen of a lot things. Transrapid project was not among these accusations.

Except the points involving Transrapid projects, every point he made in the article has factual deficits, many of which are based on the most fanciful hearsays and rumors circulated on the online forums.

French has done a really bad journalism. He has a long record of doing such craps about China. Maybe he spent too much time on Tongren Rd drinking 60 Rmb a piece beer and fooling around with prostitutes.


----------



## hkth

The Maglev Museum Opens! kay:

Xinhua News:
Shanghai maglev museum opens


----------



## big-dog

*Shanghai Subway Line 6,8,9 opening in Dec'07*

There are a lot of constructions going on with Shanghai's subway system (till 2012). Here are 3 lines to be opened by this year.

*Line 6*: Gangcheng - Jiyang Rd, 33km, 28 stations (19 underground, 9 elevated), opening in December
*Line 8*: Shiguang - Yaohua Rd, 23.33km, 22 stations (all underground), opening in December
*Line 9*: Songjiang Newtown - Guilin Rd, 29.14km, 12 stations (7 underground, 5 elevated), opening in December

The stations are under renovation now, photos are from skyscraper.cn

*Line 6*













































































































*Line 8*













































































































*Line 9*























































New subway route:


----------



## allan_dude

Impressive! kay:


----------



## trainrover

Wow, Shanghai must really be some star among us -- three extended metro lines all being commissioned in the same month, wow.

Congratulations, Shanghai!


----------



## khoojyh

congratulation

the trains are imported or fully made in china?


----------



## koolkid

The trains look great, from the outside. Everything else looks ok, pretty nice. Those ticket machines, though, look ugly in my opinion. They resemble ovens or even washing machines...
Good thing to see the Shanghai subway expanding at a rapid pace. Amazing!


----------



## big-dog

khoojyh said:


> congratulation
> 
> the trains are imported or fully made in china?


not sure, I'll check for you. Most subway cars are manufactured by Changchun, Nanjing or Chengdu companies except those which have special requirements in their specs. 

here's an intersting animation from Greenlay on SH's subway development 1995 - 2007


----------



## z0rg

Thanks for sharing. Everything looks very nice excepting those pink seats 

Shanghai subway by 2020, 22 lines and 800km+, world's largest.


----------



## ChinaboyUSA

so line 6,8,9 hasn't benn added to the electronic map yet?


----------



## ChinaboyUSA

*Shanghai transport gets funding boost*

By Cao Li
Updated: 2007-08-24 07:00 

SHANGHAI: About 110 billion yuan will be spent upgrading the city's public transport system over the next three years, the transport department revealed

Starting this year, old polluting uses will be replaced, transport routes will be extended, digital traffic information systems will be established to make transport routes more efficient and frequent commuters will be able to travel at lower cost.

A plan released by Shanghai municipal government said Shanghai had witnessed tremendous progress building a public transport system since the 1990s.

But with the increasing number of migrants and the city's fast expansion, traffic congestion had become a major challenge.

The program predicts that within three years, people in Shanghai should have access to public transport within a 500-m walking distance. In downtown areas, the distance will be 300 meters.

The metro lines will be extended to more than 400 km with a total of 280 stops. By the end of 2009, planners predict the metro should be able to handle at least 30 percent of the city's commuters.

An additional 200 routes will be established and the city's ageing 1,840 buses will either be replaced or upgraded with more environmentally friendly engines.

All the buses will be equipped with wireless systems to inform passengers of traffic conditions and estimated travel times.

Fare discounts will be given to passengers who regularly use public transport and travel longer distances.

(China Daily 08/24/2007 page4)


----------



## ChinaboyUSA

Shanghai Subway Station:






Shanghai Metro Line 1:


----------



## ChinaboyUSA

Shanghai Metro Line 2:






Shanghai Metro Line 3:


----------



## anonymous_filipino

ChinaboyUSA said:


> *Shanghai metro line to link up airports*
> By Cao Li
> Updated: 2007-07-26 07:05
> 
> 
> SHANGHAI: Work started yesterday on the project to extend metro line 2, which is to serve as a link between Shanghai's two airports.
> 
> The metro project overlaps with the city's maglev train line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Work on the project to extend Shanghai's metro line 2 gets underway yesterday. The extension will serve as a link between the city's two airports and is scheduled for completion before the 2010 Shanghai World Expo. Gao Erqiang_
> 
> 
> The extended metro line, between Longyang Road and Pudong International Airport, will stretch to 30.8 km from its current 24 km. The train will stop at 10 stations before reaching its terminal, which it will share with the maglev train.
> 
> "Most of the extended line will be built underground to save energy and to minimize the impact on the facilities and buildings along the route," said Qiu Zhaoming, an official with Shanghai Metro Operation Co Ltd.
> 
> "The line will be very close to the maglev rail as it approaches the terminal. We are still studying how to reduce the amount of interference between the two."
> 
> Construction work is to be completed before the 2010 Shanghai World Expo, when many people from home and abroad are expected to visit the city.
> 
> Metro line 2 is to be extended westwards to Hongqiao Airport, which handles domestic flights.
> 
> Upon completion, the line will enable passengers to travel from one airport to the other in 80 minutes. It is also expected to make accessing the airports from downtown easier, as well as develop rural areas along the line, said Qiu.
> 
> Source: Chinadaily


now i see, this metro line will serve as a commuter line to the airport, while the maglev will serve as the express line.. much like the MTR Airport Express Line and the Tung Chung Line


----------



## ChinaboyUSA

*New transfer path to be built at park station *

By Ni Tao 2007-10-15

THE construction of a new transfer corridor is underway at the Zhongshan Park Metro station and will be completed by the end of this year, the Shanghai Morning Post has reported.

The Zhongshan Park station connects Metro lines No.2, 3 and 4.

"When passengers transfer from No.2 line for No.3 or No.4 line, this really becomes an ordeal. They have to scramble for the escalator. During rush hour, this problem is more serious, as the corridor is teeming with crowds – friction is commonplace," a Metro employee at the Zhongshan Park station told the newspaper.

The new corridor, which will be about 50 to 60 meters in length, will be built at the south of the station and near the No. 8 exit of the No.2 line. It will link exits of No.3 and No.4 lines. 

Metro operators have attempted to alleviate congestion at the station. To siphon off some of the passenger volume, they opened another staircase near the original one last year. But it is too narrow for the large crowds in the station, the report said.

Metro operators also laid down a transfer corridor at the south of the station last year, but it has been less successful than hoped, the report said.

Source: ShanghaiDaily


----------



## anonymous_filipino

i can see that the maglev line can be extended to Lujiazui Financial District before going to the Expo 2010 station, Shanghai South Railway Station and Hongquiao Airport. it is really feasible...


----------



## staff

anonymous_filipino said:


> now i see, this metro line will serve as a commuter line to the airport, while the maglev will serve as the express line.. much like the MTR Airport Express Line and the Tung Chung Line


Well, the substancial difference is that both the Tung Chung and the Airport Express lines are of metro standard, whereas the Maglev is *the fastest train in operation on the planet* at 431 km/h.


----------



## z0rg

* Shanghai rail transit network vision will be as long as 970 km*

2007-7-24 2007-7-24
The day before yesterday, at the "2007 Shanghai - Taipei's urban development and the development and construction of rail transit Forum" upload that information, the Shanghai Long-Range Plan for the rail transportation network will be up to 970 kilometers from the city domain four lines, a total of 14 urban lines composed of 18 lines.

At present, Shanghai total rail transportation 1-5 Line 5 lines operating mileage for 123 km. In accordance with the recent construction plan, in 2012, the city will build a line from 13 track transport network length 510 km. By that time, will have the People's Square, Xujiahui, Century Road, Zhongshan Park, Hongqiao hub, and other large-scale transfer hub 9, 37 transfer stations. Rail Traffic in public transport carrier in the ratio from the current 16% to 40% 

Liberation Daily

http://www.shghj.gov.cn/News_Show.aspx?id=9198

(google translator)


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

In the video of line 1, was that an example of a refitted 8-car train?


----------



## velut arbor aevo

what is the usage rate now, and how many people is it handling each day.


----------



## ChinaboyUSA

*Made-in-China trains will debut on Metro Line 9 *
Shanghai Daily 

SHANGHAI will use subway trains that are made in China by a Chinese-owned company for the first time on Metro Line 9, which is set to open by the end of this year, subway officials announced yesterday. All of the subway trains currently used in the city are either imported or produced by foreign joint ventures in China.

"The purpose of developing our own subway cars is to lower costs and promote overall industrial capacity," said Wu Xinyi of Shanghai Shentong Holdings Company - a major investor in the city's Metro system.The cheaper trains won't lead to lower subway fares, however. 
"The investment in subway trains only accounts for a small part of our overall investment in the subway," said Wu. 

Officials wouldn't say yesterday how many of the domestically produced trains they plan to buy.
Several of the new subway trains are being exhibited at the China International Urban Rail Transport Expo at the Shanghai New International Expo Center. The six-carriage trains, which look like the current trains operating in the city, were developed by Shanghai Rail Traffic Equipment Company, an arm of Shanghai Electric.

According to Chen Chao, a project manager at Shanghai Metro Operation Company's department of new subway trains, the new trains will be tested for around six months before they are put into use. 
The test will check if they work well with current trains and study the levels of electromagnetic fields they create. "If they produce too much electromagnetism, they will affect all the other moving trains and their inter-communication system," Chen said. Han Bin, a manager at Shanghai Electric, said domestically made cars will cost "tens of thousands of yuan" less than imported cars or those produced by joint ventures.

The new cars will also be equipped with cameras to monitor each carriage. The first phase of Metro Line 9 - linking rural Songjiang District with Xuhui District - will open late this year. Metro operators have spent US$326 million on 51 six-carriage subway trains from the Canada-based Bombardier Transport for the new line.


----------



## ChinaboyUSA

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> In the video of line 1, was that an example of a refitted 8-car train?


Should be.



velut arbor aevo said:


> what is the usage rate now, and how many people is it handling each day.



*Shanghai Metro*

China - Xian - Beijing - Guangzhou - Chengdu - Dalian - Shenzhen - Shanghai - Hangzhou 

Shanghai, the eighth largest city of the world is also the largest city in China. 

Each year, thousands of travelers travel to the wonderful metropolis of Shanghai and enjoy a vacation. Getting around in Shanghai is quite easy, as the city is supported with efficient public transport system. Shanghai Metro is one of the backbones of the transport system. 

*Shanghai Metro* is one of the modes of transport that is popular with the locals as well as the tourists visiting Shanghai. *Everyday, the rapid transit system offered by Metro carries approximately 1.8 million passengers. *The metro railways of Shanghai system comprises of both elevated light railways and subways. After Beijing and Tianjin, Shanghai is only the third city in China to build a subway system. Presently, Shanghai operates more lines compared to any other subway system in China (excluding Hong Kong). This newest facet of Shanghai Metro has emerged to be one of the most rapidly expanding subway systems of the world. 

The ticketing system of Shanghai Metro is based on the `one ticket' network. This allows the passengers to interchange the tickets freely without having to purchase another ticket. The Shanghai Metro has become an intrinsic part of the lives of the people of Shanghai and serves as the backbone of the society. 

http://www.asiarooms.com/travel-gui...ransportation-in-shanghai/shanghai-metro.html

_The data is somewhat out of date though._


----------



## leo_sh

The 1.8 million is already old news. The new record is close to 3 million, with Line 1&2 one million respectively and one million on the rest 3 lines.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

I have asked this before in other posts but my question has not been addressed. Will there be any plans for four-track express service on the Shanghai metro? I mean a relative of mine living in Baoshan was complaining about how long it took to get from Xujiahui to Baoyang Rd. on Line 3. For such a distance, (40km, no?) wouldn't it be logical to have express service? Seeing as how Shanghai's lines are incredibly long, why do they not build a four track express setup, or the very least, 3 track setup with peak-direction express service?


----------



## leo_sh

No. There is no such plan in near future. 

Xujiahui is almost 30 km away from Baoyang Rd. I would recommend that your relative work or do daily shopping in a more convenient place other than Xujiahui. I know Xujiahui is a hot spot, but not every New York metropolitan area resident visits Downtown on a daily basis.


----------



## napkcirtap

Shanghai does have three track stations on the newer routes opening this year. But i doubt express operations, Such as that in nyc or philly, would happen in china


----------



## bep!

This is similar to Subway santiago
Beautiful


----------



## leo_sh

These residential buildings are a scam of the real estate developer for governmental compensation.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

^^

That's very interesting, do you know on which lines? If they're not used for express lines then what are they used for? 

Also, why don't you think Shanghai will have express service?


----------



## ChinaboyUSA

Shanghai will have express services, I think that the cities of China have their own features. All is good, and it is great to see that China is catching up the States in a different way. Unity in diversity.


----------



## napkcirtap

ChinaboyUSA said:


> Shanghai will have express services, I think that the cities of China have their own features. All is good, and it is great to see that China is catching up the States in a different way. Unity in diversity.


really? on which line?


----------



## ode of bund

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> I have asked this before in other posts but my question has not been addressed. Will there be any plans for four-track express service on the Shanghai metro? I mean a relative of mine living in Baoshan was complaining about how long it took to get from Xujiahui to Baoyang Rd. on Line 3. For such a distance, (40km, no?) wouldn't it be logical to have express service? Seeing as how Shanghai's lines are incredibly long, why do they not build a four track express setup, or the very least, 3 track setup with peak-direction express service?


Baoyang Rd and Xujiahui are not even on the same line, a transfer from line 3 to line 1 must be made either at Shanghai Rail-way Station or Shanghai South Rail-way Station where Line 3 and 1 intercept with each other. I rode the entire length of line 3 once during my trip to Shanghai in February, the 39km route from Jiangyang Rd N. to Shanghai South Rail-way Station took about 65 minutes. I think no other mode of transportation in Shanghai can surpass it.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

^^

Okay, my mistake. But you're missing the point. But for a length of 39 km, don't you think that it would be logical to have four lane express service in there? That way the time could possibly be cut to under 50 minutes. People who haven't been to NYC or London can't appreciate the beauty of four lane express service. 

btw, are there any plans to extend service hours? I mean 10pm is a bit ridiculous. Are operators trying to discourage metro use? At least make it 1am, though I think a city of Shanghai's size needs 24 hour service.


----------



## napkcirtap

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> ^^
> 
> Okay, my mistake. But you're missing the point. But for a length of 39 km, don't you think that it would be logical to have four lane express service in there? That way the time could possibly be cut to under 50 minutes. People who haven't been to NYC or London can't appreciate the beauty of four lane express service.
> 
> btw, are there any plans to extend service hours? I mean 10pm is a bit ridiculous. Are operators trying to discourage metro use? At least make it 1am, though I think a city of Shanghai's size needs 24 hour service.


10pm, because of nimbys. they protest to the noise that els make, complaining that they can't sleep. so the last train is sometime around 10.

no express service on any line because a) they didn't build it back then, there was never such planning in the beginning. b) they surveyed people about running reverse express trains during peak hours in suburbs in order to increase the frequency of service along line 1 northern extension. but ppl simply opposed, and though it was only a small fraction who boarded the train outbound during rush hours, the subway agency never succeeded in even testing express service along long-length lines


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

^^

Thats interesting. Where did you find this information because I'd like to do some research for myself. Would you happen to know why they would oppose having express service? Its an amazing thing, I dunno how people can live if they have to suffer through every stop. On the other hand, the distance between Shanghai metro stops are enormous aren't they? The distance between NYC stops are usually a comfortable walking distance.


----------



## kix111

^^depends on which stops..some are relatively short and some are huge. Shanghai has a huge huge urban area


----------



## iampuking

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> ^^
> 
> Okay, my mistake. But you're missing the point. But for a length of 39 km, don't you think that it would be logical to have four lane express service in there? That way the time could possibly be cut to under 50 minutes. People who haven't been to NYC or *London can't appreciate the beauty of four lane express service. *


Eh?


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

^^

Doesn't London have express service on the Picadilly and Metropolitan lines? Am I mistaken to believe that its the same four track setup as NYC?


----------



## iampuking

For a few stations, NR services mirror tube lines in several places as well. See here: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/gettingaround/1106.aspx


----------



## ChinaboyUSA

Talk about 24 hour metro service, I think that only NYC's metro gets to the point so far, simply because the service has long been a part of the metro and passengers get used to that. But I am somewhat confused by the cities like Tokyo and Shanghai that doesn't have the 24 hour metro service as they have the same scale urban area of NYC, or even bigger. In term of express line, in my perception, it has the similar effect by having several levels of metro lines either underground or above, also by same direction's (with exchange stations) metro lines but in different distances between stations.


----------



## napkcirtap

When the northern extension of line one opened, train intervals where twelve minutes, they did '' power runs'' on trains, which were express operations, it was quite common during rush hour, but ppl simply complained about the express service, so every train had to stop at all stations.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

^^

My understanding is that "power runs" are where a train skips a number of stops right? But that isn't real express service. Of course people will object to that because its frustrating to see a train pass on a station and it also screws up the intervals and increases waiting time. I was referring to real four track express service where the intervals on the local tracks are the same as that on the express tracks. 

@ ChinaboyUSA,
Are you thinking about something like the metro, RER, and light rail? I suppose that can work but my objection to that is that generally the price for RER would be more expensive, no? It will discourage the use of faster systems. I mean NYC has different levels of metro too if you include Metro North, LIRR, and NJ Transit but the subway still has four-track express service.


----------



## micro

New photo page about Shanghai's metro, Maglev, and sightseeing tunnel :banana:


----------



## micro

Does anybody know which station this is?:










At first I thought it's People's Square but I'm not sure.


----------



## YelloPerilo

micro said:


> Does anybody know which station this is?:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At first I thought it's People's Square but I'm not sure.



That's an old picture of Renmin Guangchang station. The decoration has been removed since construction of a new metro line.


----------



## kix111

^^old picture


----------



## micro

The photo is from 15 January 2006.


----------



## YelloPerilo

micro said:


> The photo is from 15 January 2006.


But you do know the speed of changes in China, don't you?


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

^^

Yeah... so fast that they still refuse to implement four track express service in their subways


----------



## ddes

I think that the problem of express trains in Shanghai is that as the city is growing fast, it is hard to predict which stations will have higher traffic to warrant a selection of express train stations.

I see Shanghai Metro doing a Tokyo Metro instead. More and more lines will be added, to relieve crowds and provide 'express' services rather than building on existing lines in service/under construction.


----------



## FML

To z0rg:
Thanx for the compliment and the info. I'll try adding new lines in future updates.

The future network of Shanghai (or any given Chinese cities, for that matter) is very hard to map, cos plans too-rapidly change/grow in a short time, while information is hard to come by, especially for those who can't speak the language. Such a dynamism does make the network fascinating, though.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

i totally agree that Shanghai is way too big for one system. Either they need four track express trains or they need to create two systems: one metro for lines averaging 30km and one commuter rail for +30km per line. I mean can if they use fewer stops per line, then people in between will get shafted and if they use more stops to increase coverage, imagine commuting from Jinshan to downtown stopping at 40+ stops. This can't work. They need separate systems or express service. 

On the other hand, I feel like Shanghai's subway is the most similar to Seoul's in terms of planning and layout and integration of metro and suburban rail.


----------



## snow is red

iampuking said:


> So? None of it will have the character of New York, London, Paris or Moscow's systems... Plus, with the amount of construction needed, I can't see how it's going to be good quality... But hey, we shall see.


And why must it have the characters of other countries' systems ? And what characters are you talking about exactly ?


----------



## Frog

iampuking said:


> So? None of it will have the character of New York, London, Paris or Moscow's systems... Plus, with the amount of construction needed, I can't see how it's going to be good quality... But hey, we shall see.


you can't really compare systems which have existed for a hundred years with a brand new one, but I'm sure commuters will prefer a tatty cramped old train compared to a smooth brand new one


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

As much as I hate to say it but I don't think this system is going to be that successful looking at it now. The reason simply being that planners aim for distance rather than dense coverage. In the middle of the city, there is still a huge distance between stops not covered because of the stops being so far apart. For a city the size of Shanghai, it is imperative that they have a separate metro and commuter rail systems, and even so, the metro needs four track express service.

And what is with the pathetic hours of operation? 10 pm?!?! are they serious? Are there any plans to extend it to past midnight?


----------



## iampuking

Frog said:


> you can't really compare systems which have existed for a hundred years with a brand new one, but I'm sure commuters will prefer a tatty cramped old train compared to a smooth brand new one


Moscow and Paris both have perfectly comfortable trains, which run like clockwork and frequencies over 30tph...

London and New York aren't as reliable, but London is getting better with it's investment going on.

And if you don't know what "character" or the importance of it, then I feel for you


----------



## Tri-ring

With no disrespect or anything and just out of curiousity but, 

Is it safe to dig so many hole under a city at one time? 

Kinda reminds me of an old console game I use to play, DigDug.:lol:


----------



## z0rg

FML said:


> To z0rg:
> Thanx for the compliment and the info. I'll try adding new lines in future updates.


Welcome.
Post the updated version of your great map when you finish it, please, please


----------



## hkskyline

*Metro on track for Expo rush hour *
1 December 2007
Shanghai Daily

Shanghai's Metro network is expanding at an astonishing pace and is expected to cover 1.56 million square meters by 2010. 

City planners envisage a world-class service, integrating the airport, expressway, rail, Metro and magnetic levitation line (Maglev), geared to handle a daily capacity of 1.1 million people. 

The subway now occupies 320,000 square meters of space in Shanghai, experts said yesterday at the 2007 Forum on Chinese City Under-Space. 

Urban construction experts and scholars from across the country discussed plans and hot issues on developing underground infrastructure at the forum's opening in Shanghai. 

According to Ying Minghong, chairman of Shanghai Shentong Metro Group, by the end of this year the Metro will occupy 680,000 square meters of underground space in the city. 

"Shanghai has five Metro lines in operation, but by the end of this year there will be eight lines covering more than 230 kilometers with 163 Metro stations," Ying said. 

"By 2010, Shanghai will have 11 Metro lines, totaling more than 400 kilometers with 274 stations. 

"Metro lines 12 and 13 will be built by 2012, when the Metro transportation network will cover more than 500 kilometers." 

The Metro network now handles 16 percent of the city's overall public transport volume. 

The development and utilization of underground space in the city has exceeded 16 million square meters, occupying 2.7 percent of the Shanghai central downtown area which is 600 square kilometers. 

Miu Yuning, an expert in the under-space design department of the Shanghai Municipal Engineering Design and Research Institute, said the Hongqiao integrated transport hub would be completed by the end of 2009 and be operating for the 2010 World Expo. 

The facility, near the Hongqiao International Airport, will start from the Outer Ring Road in the east to Huaxiang Road in the west, stretching from Beidi Road in the north to the Huqingping Highway in the south, covering a floor area of 26.26 square kilometers.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

And this is just the tentative plan for 2020 right? we dunno how the transportation system will look in 2030 or 2040. i can see some commuter lines or light rail/monorails to supplement the traffic because the metro is certainly not dense enough. For example, i can definitely see them adding a monorail to plug in the massive gaps in lujiazui or a chongming railroad similar to LIRR


----------



## liwentao_tom

*see the new map from urbanrail.net*









http://www.urbanrail.net/as/shan/shanghai.htm


----------



## pflo777

uhm...whats that for a strange line9 (in light blue). And why is the extension of line 2 towards pudong airport not included?


----------



## Alargule

^^ Line 9 has yet to be integrated into the network:


----------



## The Chemist

pflo777 said:


> uhm...whats that for a strange line9 (in light blue). And why is the extension of line 2 towards pudong airport not included?


This only shows operational lines as of the end of the month. The extensions of Line 2 east to Pudong Airport and west to Hongqiao Airport are only U/C - they won't be open this year.


----------



## Bitxofo

Incredible expansion!
:eek2:


----------



## Woonsocket54

z0rg said:


> PS: By 2012, Shanghai will have 510km opperating, becoming world's largest metro system.


There should be some sort of national coordination policy on which Chinese city can claim a future claim (!) of the world's largest metro system:



> *Beijing to build world's largest metro system*
> (Xinhua)
> Updated: 2007-12-10 14:48
> 
> BEIJING -- Total investment in Beijing's subway system is set to approach 80 billion yuan (US$10.8 billion) by 2010, and the city's underground network is expected to be the world's largest as of 2015.
> 
> The financing includes 71.5 billion yuan approved by the municipal government for public transport during the 11th five-year plan period, which ends in 2010, the Beijing Morning Post reported on Monday.
> 
> The huge investment will boost construction of rail lines, which are expected to total 561 km by 2015 with a capacity of 9 million passengers daily.
> 
> By that time, rail service will extend from the downtown area to many key locations on the city fringes, including the Olympic Park and seven suburban satellite cities.
> 
> Subway transport is expected to account for 50 percent of all public transit use within eight years, greatly easing pressure on the roads.
> 
> Five new subway routes -- Line 6, the second phases of Line 10 and Line 8, and the Yizhuang and Daxing lines -- with a total length of nearly 140 km began construction in the city on Saturday. All are to be completed by 2015.
> 
> Currently, the first phases of Line 10 and Line 8, as well as a 28-km line linking downtown to Beijing Capital International Airport, are under construction.
> 
> The capital now has Line 1, Line 2, Line 5, Line 13 and the Batong line in operation, carrying about 2.3 million passengers each day. Their combined length is 142 km.


http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-12/10/content_6310173.htm


----------



## z0rg

^^ Lol! Guangzhou is bidding for the big title too since it's planning over 550km by mid 2010s.


----------



## oliver999

really amazing map


----------



## ddes

So,
2012: Shanghai has world's largest
2015: Beijing has world's largest

Guangzhou will be 2nd largest or somewhere behind...

It's really amazing that China has taken to commuting by metro so quick. Although I doubt the metro network will actually take pressure off the road networks even though the subway system may be packed...


----------



## iampuking

Will Shanghai or Bejing have any kind of a commuter rail system or will this double up as one? Or do they already have commuter rail systems?


----------



## liwentao_tom

the total length will be 236 km with 8 lines


----------



## binhai

This is supposed to be open by now. Hopefully we'll get some pictures of the newest Shanghai metro stations soon. The metro system is huge, modern and very well maintained!!!


----------



## iampuking

Why do you use that silly way Americans write dates?

The way the rest of the world writes it, dd/mm/yy is far superior.

Oh yeah and the metro, where are the pics?


----------



## Falubaz

iampuking said:


> Why do you use that silly way Americans write dates?
> 
> The way the rest of the world writes it, dd/mm/yy is far superior.
> 
> Oh yeah and the metro, where are the pics?


and where is the new original metro system map?


----------



## sfgadv02

iampuking said:


> Why do you use that silly way Americans write dates?
> 
> The way the rest of the world writes it, dd/mm/yy is far superior.
> 
> Oh yeah and the metro, where are the pics?


It's just a date...hno:
Also, Japan writes their date as YY/MM/DD.

I'm glad that HK MTR took part in this project, can't wait to see some pictures of this massive metro.


----------



## alta-bc

sfgadv02 said:


> It's just a date...hno:


Ok, what day is 05/06/07?

In america it would be May 6, 2007
In Japan it would be June 7, 2005
In "the rest of the world" it would be June 5, 2007

A date interpreted in the wrong way can potentially have dire consequences. (Expiry dates for example)

We should all stick to the established ISO format YYYY/MM/DD, or if you don't know, write it out, like above.


----------



## iampuking

DD/MM/YYYY not the other way round. It starts with the smallest, ends with the largest, I fail to see the logic of the American/Japanese/Wherever else system.


----------



## snow is red

These are the only few photos I found, I hope you like them. I also found a video from a Chinese website for these lines as well, but unfortunately this video is different from youtube therefore I don't know how to embed it in this post.


----------



## spongeg

video here too

http://www.cctv.com/english/20071230/101090.shtml

this pic also shows simply whats new


----------



## spongeg

another pic

Line 9 - Qibao Station









from: http://shanghaiist.com/2007/12/28/jiangnan_goes_u.php


----------



## kix111

they say every 900m theres a subway station on average in shanghai urban area...


line 1








line 2 









line 3









line 4









line 5









line 6









line 8


----------



## snow is red

Ok ya CCTV video

http://www.cctv.com/video/worldwidewatch/2007/12/worldwidewatch_300_20071230_4.shtml


And this is a very informal video, I think it was recorded by some passenger.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_cb00XMTQ4MjU3Mjg=.html


----------



## iampuking

So basically, more plasticy ****** stations which all look the same? Quality not quantity...

Is Shanghai's Subway/Metro deep level or shallow?


----------



## urbanfan89

So headways on line 9 will be 14 minutes? What a joke...


----------



## mrtfreak

Line 9's connectivity reminds me of KL's Kelana Jaya line phase 1 where it wasn't very well connected to any of the other lines. But good job, they got that connected better with phase 2 and I can imagine the same for Shanghai. Nice to see the modern stations out there.


----------



## sfgadv02

iampuking said:


> DD/MM/YYYY not the other way round. It starts with the smallest, ends with the largest, I fail to see the logic of the American/Japanese/Wherever else system.


As long as it gets the point across, why does it matter?


----------



## iampuking

It doesn't though, it causes confusion and doesn't make logical sense.


----------



## mrtfreak

You're just rigid and unadaptable. As long as you're able to clarify it shouldn't be a problem. Don't be a nit picker. Only people with OCD would worry about such stuff.


----------



## iampuking

Not really, just fussy when things are a load of bollocks.


----------



## vristo

The Matter of the Date: 12/29/2007; it is (the date) written like this in China. In this topic it is question about the extensions of Shanghai Metro, in China. 

Back to the case of the Topic, please...


----------



## liwentao_tom

*the news pictures from Shanghai*

*line1*

































*line4*

















*line 6*

























*line8*









































































*line 9*


----------



## Codfish

Actually, no, in China the date is YYYY/MM/DD (as you can see at the bottom of the above pictures). In China things like this tend to go from most general to most specific; addresses work the same way, so you would say China, Shanghai Municipality, Pudong District, such-and-such street, #45 (or whatever). I tend to like this method, though I agree that it doesn't really matter as long as it's clear.

But to get back to the actual topic of the thread, I'm thankful that Shanghai is going ahead with its expansion! Hopefully it's been going well; any reports on ease of use, whether the new transfer stations are convenient, etc.? With luck, this will serve as a model for China. Here in Beijing, the transfer stations have often been extremely poorly planned, meaning that getting from one line to another is a huge hassle; hopefully our southern neighbors can show us how to do it right!


----------



## pflo777

in a web blog, I read, that right now there are 14 (!) tunnel boring machines at work in Shanghai simultaniously to extend the subway system.

I have never ever heard of such a huge application at one time at a single place.


----------



## ChinaboyUSA

Congratulations, Shanghai!


----------



## mrtfreak

Nice pictures. Line 6 looks awfully similar to Beijing's line 5.


----------



## UD2

mrtfreak said:


> Nice pictures. Line 6 looks awfully similar to Beijing's line 5.


Modern subway lines in China are all designed in the uniformaly plain HK MTR style. 

It's the sterotypical extention of the lack of individual creativity in China's decision makers as well as designers. Its the fruit of modern Chinese culture set by its disfunctional educational system.


But then again, these stations are made to move people, not to be individual show pieces. They do their jobs well. Spectecular designs are only going to be trampled by millions of people who walk through the stations everyday anyways. Nobody'll ever stop to look at it.


----------



## liwentao_tom

*new pictures*


----------



## mrtfreak

UD2 said:


> Modern subway lines in China are all designed in the uniformaly plain HK MTR style.
> 
> It's the sterotypical extention of the lack of individual creativity in China's decision makers as well as designers. Its the fruit of modern Chinese culture set by its disfunctional educational system.
> 
> 
> But then again, these stations are made to move people, not to be individual show pieces. They do their jobs well. Spectecular designs are only going to be trampled by millions of people who walk through the stations everyday anyways. Nobody'll ever stop to look at it.


I thought the trains were exactly the same down to the line colour. Its good to see expansion and I wouldn't think that its either they invest money in creativity or quantity. At this point, they need quantity over creativity for sure so I'm not surprised that the stations are built to move people. That said, the stations LOOK very modern, well constructed and of varied designs.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Someone here has mentioned that the total length of Shanghai metro is 145 km which is not true. By now, it is already 227.1 km in total. The swiftness of its building drives me crazy 
Both NYC and London are not the greatest system of urban rail transport. Tokyo is the first with no rivals at all in the foreseeing future.


----------



## Svartmetall

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Someone here has mentioned that the total length of Shanghai metro is 145 km which is not true. By now, it is already 227.1 km in total. The swiftness of its building drives me crazy
> Both NYC and London are not the greatest system of urban rail transport. Tokyo is the first with no rivals at all in the foreseeing future.


That's a very subjective view. Each have their good and bad points.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Svartmetall said:


> That's a very subjective view. Each have their good and bad points.


What do you mean by subjective and who or what has got + and -?
I was talking only about the dimensions of ewach system, and here Tokyo runs absolutly the first.


----------



## Svartmetall

_Night City Dream_ said:


> What do you mean by subjective and who or what has got + and -?
> I was talking only about the dimensions of ewach system, and here Tokyo runs absolutly the first.


You talked about the "greatest" transportation, not who has the most extensive rail system. Sorry, if you meant the most extensive (in length) then yes, you're right.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

The lenght and the frequency as well. Althgough the frequency is definitely better in Moscow...


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Could anyone tell me about the rolling stock used on new lines (6, 8 and 9)?


----------



## sarflonlad

Is there a drive to make the Chinese behave better on the Shanghai subway? I went there and ended taking cabs after a few days because I couldn't deal with the pushing, the rudeness and disgusting attitude of the locals on the trains and stations.... I previously thought London was bad, but on London you would never witness someone pushing a woman carrying a baby, in Shanghai, yes.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

But London is terrible with its low interiors, I have to bend low to get on, then I hate headways there as well as the price.
In Shanghai, apart from the pushing which is not so awful as you describe, everything is for the good.


----------



## iampuking

_Night City Dream_ said:


> But London is terrible with its low interiors, I have to bend low to get on, then I hate headways there as well as the price.


London does have small trains, crap headways etc... but he wasn't even talking about headways or trains, he was talking about rude passengers.

And did you get an Oyster card or did you use Travelcards?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

When I was in London, I took the tube occasionnaly, so every time it was just an ordinary ticket. But then I realized that if there was a company of 4 - 5 people, taxi cabs are cheaper, really.

In Shanghai, I used the metro every day and I really didn't notice the fact he described. People were not rude at all. The only thing that shocked me a little was that incoming passengers didn't wait for the others getting off and every time rushed into the train just after the doors opened. All the other was really good.


----------



## iampuking

Ordinary tickets are high to discourage their use... apparently.


----------



## sarflonlad

_Night City Dream_ said:


> When I was in London, I took the tube occasionnaly, so every time it was just an ordinary ticket. But then I realized that if there was a company of 4 - 5 people, taxi cabs are cheaper, really.
> 
> In Shanghai, I used the metro every day and I really didn't notice the fact he described. People were not rude at all. *The only thing that shocked me a little was that incoming passengers didn't wait for the others getting off and every time rushed into the train just after the doors opened*. All the other was really good.


This is what really bugged me. Why the hell don't they wait for people to get off? You just slow the whole process down.

But this is China. In China people rush and ram in to anything like its the end of the world with no regard for anyone else. Stupidity or Culture?


----------



## iampuking

Most countries consider us (the UK) to be overly polite over nothing.

But I agree with you, what you're describing is rude...


----------



## _Night City Dream_

sarflonlad said:


> This is what really bugged me. Why the hell don't they wait for people to get off? You just slow the whole process down.
> 
> But this is China. In China people rush and ram in to anything like its the end of the world with no regard for anyone else. Stupidity or Culture?


I talked to Chinese people thay say normally these are not people of Shanghai but those who came there for work purposes and to live. Mostly, they are from the country and they don't know how to use it correctly.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Sorry, anyone can still tell me what is the rolling stock on new lines (6, 8 and 9)?


----------



## leo_sh

Line 6 & 8 use the ones you will see in Madrid, by Alstom. In long term Line 6 will swtich to Bombardier, assembled in China, which will be a 2.6m car and nobody has yet seen how it looks like. Line 9 use Bombardier, 3.0 m width.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

I read somewhere that Line 10 is gonna use 3.2m wide Alstom Metropolises like the ones they have in Singapore. Has anyone else heard this? If this is true, then that would be awesome


----------



## leo_sh

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> I read somewhere that Line 10 is gonna use 3.2m wide Alstom Metropolises like the ones they have in Singapore. Has anyone else heard this? If this is true, then that would be awesome


It is. It's a shame they did not put the 3.2m on Line 8, which absolutely deserves it.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

^^

Not really, I read that there is a huge gap between the train and the station for Line 8, so I guess that the stations were built for bigger trains, but they're using 2.6m trains for now. Every reason to believe they'll use bigger trains for Line 8 in the near future.

But as far as Line 10 goes, is this talk of using 3.2m Alstom Metropolis just a rumor on the Shanghai Expat website or is it substantiated elsewhere?


----------



## leo_sh

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> ^^
> 
> Not really, I read that there is a huge gap between the train and the station for Line 8, so I guess that the stations were built for bigger trains, but they're using 2.6m trains for now. Every reason to believe they'll use bigger trains for Line 8 in the near future.
> 
> But as far as Line 10 goes, is this talk of using 3.2m Alstom Metropolis just a rumor on the Shanghai Expat website or is it substantiated elsewhere?


The gap is vertical, not horizontal. Even if it is horizontal, it is 10 cm. If the car takes up the whole 10 cm, it will only be 2.8m. The 3.2 m train news has been published on the local papers.


----------



## Second City

Wow that is massive!!


----------



## kix111

sarflonlad said:


> This is what really bugged me. Why the hell don't they wait for people to get off? You just slow the whole process down.
> 
> But this is China. In China people rush and ram in to anything like its the end of the world with no regard for anyone else. Stupidity or Culture?


you simply have to rush or you will never get on a metro. theres just so many ppl waiting to get on/off, if you wait for them, the metro won't wait for you.

although its a bit of a rush, but ppl get use to it, shanghai is really fast paced


----------



## leo_sh

I actually see people, aspecially young people, attempt to line up. Sometimes it works, most time not. 

Another factor is that the door is wide enough, enough for four lines boarding and alighting. And every car has five doors.

I don't see lining cause any time difference. Chinese people push their way and push really hard. It is actually a quite fast process.


----------



## sarflonlad

kix111 said:


> you simply have to rush or you will never get on a metro. theres just so many ppl waiting to get on/off, if you wait for them, the metro won't wait for you.
> 
> although its a bit of a rush, but ppl get use to it, shanghai is really fast paced


Rushing doesn't make things quicker. It makes it slower for people to get off as they have to push against the people trying to get on who have to push against those getting off etc etc etc. 

It's a fact (and don't be calling mean racist): The majority of Chinese people have a bizarre need to push and run at everything (even though it usually doesn't make the process any quicker). Even buying long distance train tickets is a nightmare - the ticket booth isn't about to run off is it now? Yet still people push and shove (and spit)....

I appreciate that some people come to Britain (even Europeans and Americans) and think we must be weird with all our manners and I guess it is excessive - but of course it wasn't always like this... people learned.

The people of Shanghai need to learn some basic manners fast if they want the city to be as respected as say Hong Kong.


----------



## snow is red

Sarflonlad

When did you visit Shanghai ?


----------



## sarflonlad

02tonyl said:


> Sarflonlad
> 
> When did you visit Shanghai ?


July 07.

Ok it might have changed - but I doubt that much. There are far nicer Chinese cities than Shanghai. Don't mean to offend!


----------



## leo_sh

sarflonlad said:


> Rushing doesn't make things quicker. It makes it slower for people to get off as they have to push against the people trying to get on who have to push against those getting off etc etc etc.
> 
> It's a fact (and don't be calling mean racist): The majority of Chinese people have a bizarre need to push and run at everything (even though it usually doesn't make the process any quicker). Even buying long distance train tickets is a nightmare - the ticket booth isn't about to run off is it now? Yet still people push and shove (and spit)....
> 
> I appreciate that some people come to Britain (even Europeans and Americans) and think we must be weird with all our manners and I guess it is excessive - but of course it wasn't always like this... people learned.
> 
> The people of Shanghai need to learn some basic manners fast if they want the city to be as respected as say Hong Kong.


I'm afraid I have to tell you a lot of people are not impressed by Hong Kong at all. Yes, people will learn. But there is something people will never be bothered to learn. For example, the British working class have never been bothered to learn make German cars, which could actually be much more important in every aspect than queuing or good manners.


----------



## snow is red

leo_sh said:


> I'm afraid I have to tell you a lot of people are not impressed by Hong Kong at all. Yes, people will learn. But there is something people will never be bothered to learn. For example, the British working class have never been bothered to learn make German cars, which could actually be much more important in every aspect than queuing or good manners.



Eh, I am lost, I don't know why you associate one thing to another, tbh I find sarflonlad's criticism quite constructive and something to improve on.


----------



## iampuking

leo_sh said:


> I'm afraid I have to tell you a lot of people are not impressed by Hong Kong at all. Yes, people will learn. But there is something people will never be bothered to learn. For example, the British working class have never been bothered to learn make German cars, which could actually be much more important in every aspect than queuing or good manners.


The working class aren't some organisation that follow the same pattern and copy each other. They won't just wake up and think "comrades, let's make cars" there has to actually be a British company that'll *employ* them. I'm sorry if you find that so difficult to understand.


----------



## leo_sh

iampuking said:


> The working class aren't some organisation that follow the same pattern and copy each other. They won't just wake up and think "comrades, let's make cars" there has to actually be a British company that'll *employ* them. I'm sorry if you find that so difficult to understand.


My comment derived from the story of BMW, which managed both a certain a car factory in England and another one elsewhere at the same time. When comparing the experiences, they described the English working class as inveterate.

I must admit that this is not a good comparison. One good example may be German and Italian driving habits. A lot of Germans make holidays in Italy and hate the Italian way of driving - chaotic, breach of rules, dangerous, etc. Later a certain German traffic expert found out that, in spite of being chaotic and apparently dangerous, the Italian traffic is as efficient as the orderly German traffic, statistically not really more dangerous than the German one.


----------



## iampuking

leo_sh said:


> My comment derived from the story of BMW, which managed both a certain a car factory in England and another one elsewhere at the same time. When comparing the experiences, they described the English working class as inveterate.


Read my first point again...


----------



## leo_sh

iampuking said:


> Read my first point again...


I have answered to your point. I have pointed out that it was a certain group of working class in a certain organization who were offered a chance by a new management to receive new training in technology and equipment, but they squandered the chance and gave up the incentive. In comparison to the commuters, it is not some aesthetics or small nusances. It was their livelihood. 

Human beings are very stubborn animals. With no incentive, no appropriate conditions, how can you expect average human beings to change the behaviour they have grown accustomed to. The primary problem in Shanghai's metro system is overcrowding and lack of trains, not pushing and shoving. Nobody complain they have missed a train due to not lining up. They might well probably miss a train if they ever line up. And it is not all pushing and shoving and line-jumping. There are rules and etiquetts. There are polite eye contacts. There are tentative physical touch. There are quiet inquiries like "do you alight", "can we exchange our places", "please, it's already too late for me", etc. etc.. It is only in outsiders' eyes pure chaos. And these outsiders won't bother to ask how it is going. Their first job is assume moral high ground. That is annoying!


----------



## _Night City Dream_

LIWENTAO, thank a lot for such great shots.
As I see, line 6 has the same rolling stock as line 5. Pity, I didn't like them at all. They are not noisy but there are indeed the noisiest in Shanghai metro, and the less comfortable in my opinon.
Line 9 has the same trains as new trains on line 1.
Line 8 has got a new type, I've never seen such trains before. Have you got some more photos?

Another great thing about Shanghai metro is that I see on pics that they started decorating stations, they are not only functional any more.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Ah, forgot to ask one thing: part of Line 4 in Pudong that was completed recently, is it underground or the whole line is elevated?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

ddes said:


> Oh I see...
> 
> Well, Line 1 and 2 certainly need them right now. I guess increased frequency and parallel lines will try to alleviate them.
> 
> We all basically know there are a few rolling stock manufacturers in the world like Alstom, Siemens, Kawasaki and upcoming ROTEM. Is China planing to have their own brand, which is not reverse engineered?
> 
> I'm asking this because I love metro sounds but with the world adopting more or less those mentioned manufacturers, it's getting alittle boring.


You forgot Russian manufacturers.


----------



## ddes

Shanghai Line 8 seems to be using the same rolling stock as Guangzhou's Line 4 (correct me if I'm wrong, not too sure which line is it)

I have a question for Shanghainese forumers who take the metro. What do you feel about the constant sardine- packness? Are you guys resigned to it or you think driving or taking a bus would be better?

It seems from the YouTube vids that it looks alot worse than Tokyo Metro's squeeze...


----------



## _Night City Dream_

I reaaly doubt it. You know, when I lived in Shanghai, I saw this overcrowded lines only twice, all the rest was much more than ok. It was not constant at all.
Bus would be worse to take.


----------



## staff

ddes said:


> I have a question for Shanghainese forumers who take the metro. What do you feel about the constant sardine- packness? Are you guys resigned to it or you think driving or taking a bus would be better?


Having lived in Shanghai for more than a year, I feel that the "sardine packness"
only occurs on Line 1 and occasionally on Line 2. The trains on the other lines aren't that crowded, but that might have changed now that the system has been enlarged.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

staff said:


> Having lived in Shanghai for more than a year, I feel that the "sardine packness"
> only occurs on Line 1 and occasionally on Line 2. The trains on the other lines aren't that crowded, but that might have changed now that the system has been enlarged.


I confirm that although I lived there far less. Sardine packed trains occur on Line 1 and Line 2 and exceptionally where they cross, at People's Square.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

_Night City Dream_ said:


> LIWENTAO, thank a lot for such great shots.
> As I see, line 6 has the same rolling stock as line 5. Pity, I didn't like them at all. They are not noisy but there are indeed the noisiest in Shanghai metro, and the less comfortable in my opinon.
> Line 9 has the same trains as new trains on line 1.
> Line 8 has got a new type, I've never seen such trains before. Have you got some more photos?
> 
> Another great thing about Shanghai metro is that I see on pics that they started decorating stations, they are not only functional any more.


Uh no actually... Line 8, 5, and 6 all use the same type, which really sucks for Line 8 because apparently there is severe overcrowding on that line.

Excited for Line 10 and its use of 3.2m wide Alstom Metropolis cars. Does that mean it will be the same rolling stock as Singapore's North East MRT Line or will it be its own unique design with same technical specifications? And is there news of what rolling stock will be used on Line 7 and 11?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

*drunkenmunkey888*, thanks, I didn't know exactly because I only saw a picture with trains' faces, and it was a little bit new look. Another thing that made me think of one more type of cars were interior photos. I remember taking photos inside the train on Line 5, it was not the same.

If you can, please, post here some photos of trains on Line 8, and stations as well.


----------



## ddes

Alstom Metropolis are merely a series of type of rolling stock, so it may or may not look like Singapore's trains. And anyway, within Singapore, Alstom Metropolis on the Circle Line and North East Line have differing looks too...


----------



## hkskyline

Sleek interiors. The large Chinese characters inside stations reminds me of HK's Island Line, but without the brush motif.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

In my opinion Alstom trains are not bad but they are definitely the worst in Shanghai metro, "old" trains on Line 2 for ex are much better as for comfort and sound insulation.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

^^
Alstom trains are pretty bad. They're really narrow, which was a terrible choice for Line 8 I heard. They're shorter and uglier too. My favorite would have to be the trains they use on Line 9 and Line 4. Those are sleek, robust, and beautiful. I feel like Line 9 and 4 have by far the best trains for now, until Line 10 opens with their 3.2m wide trains (unless rumors and newspapers are lying about Line 10 train specifications)




_Night City Dream_ said:


> If you can, please, post here some photos of trains on Line 8, and stations as well.


That's kinda hard to do because Line 8 is entirely underground and all the stations have platform screen doors so most good pictures of Line 8 are taken in the train yards, which is hard for civilians to access.


----------



## kix111

line 7 looks pretty good


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

^^

That's exactly the same rolling stock as Shenzhen Metro, no?


----------



## The Cebuano Exultor

*@ [anyone/everyone]*

Is it just me or are the masterplanners of Shanghai's Metro Rail Network just sooooo short-sighted and unambitious.


----------



## city_thing

I dunno, I wouldn't call this short sighted...


----------



## _Night City Dream_

I've got no words, it's marvellous. I really envy people who live there.




drunkenmunkey888 said:


> ^^
> Alstom trains are pretty bad. They're really narrow, which was a terrible choice for Line 8 I heard. They're shorter and uglier too. My favorite would have to be the trains they use on Line 9 and Line 4. Those are sleek, robust, and beautiful. I feel like Line 9 and 4 have by far the best trains for now, until Line 10 opens with their 3.2m wide trains (unless rumors and newspapers are lying about Line 10 train specifications)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's kinda hard to do because Line 8 is entirely underground and all the stations have platform screen doors so most good pictures of Line 8 are taken in the train yards, which is hard for civilians to access.


Hm, perhaps, I missed the info about new trains on line 4. I thought there were still the oldest trains in Shanghai metro just like on line 2 and partly on Line 1...
Or you meant line 9 and 1? On line 1 there are two types of trains: the oldest and my favourite  If you meant this, then I agree with you.


Yeah, Alstom trains are much worse in design and width, but the thing I really didn't like was the noise. It was nearly just the same as 81-740 in Moscow which are considered the newest and the quietest. I don't think so, and I was surprised, when I visited Line 5, they gave me the same feeling (noise, vibration etc.)


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

The Cebuano Exultor said:


> Is it just me or are the masterplanners of Shanghai's Metro Rail Network just sooooo short-sighted and unambitious.


I totally agree with you. Here is why:

For a city as large as Shanghai (upwards of 50 million in entire municipality over the next few decades is not unreasonable) in the future would require more than just one huge metro system. The masterplan is waaay too simple. Yes I know there are 23 lines which is ambitious, but a good network needs more than just a lot of lines.

1) The lack of express service in planning is a crippling disadvantage for a network as large as Shanghai's. I'm not talking any bullshit skip-stop service or w/e other metros in the world has. I'm talking legit four track express EXACTLY how they have it in NYC subway where the middle two tracks pass local stations that are only accessible to outer two local tracks. Sorry if that explanation is condescending to some people, its just that I've brought this up before and there were many "interpretations" as to what express means. I mean express as in NYC Subway express service. I mean let alone enormous lines like 9 or 11, going from Baoshan to Zhongshan Park on Line 3 is already excruciatingly slow because trains stop at EVERY stop. If Shanghai urban transit planners know what's good, they will scrap these plans and draw up ones where there are express trains.
2) There should be different modes of urban rail transport instead of one monster metro. Instead of having 23 lines, mix it up so that the metro doesn't become overburdened. For example, create commuter rail lines for outer districts in Pudong, Puxi, and Chongming. Use subway lines for urban districts and inner suburbs. Use light rail, monorail, or elevated rail to plug in gaps where subway coverage might miss like Lujiazui (For someplace as important as Lujiazui, there is only one metro stop. Compare that with Downtown Manhattan, which has over a dozen in a square mile) or the Bund Waterfront. 

I recommend something like this:
Metrowest: Very extensive commuter rail network that serves outer suburbs in Puxi, Zhejiang, and Jiangsu with certain lines terminating as far as Suzhou and Jiaxing. Has around 8 lines
Pudong Transit: Commuter rail network that serves Pudong suburban districts with around 6 branches
Chongming Railroad: Commuter rail network that serves Chongming island terminating in Shanghai Railway stations with 5 branches
Shanghai Subway: Dense network of subways that have multiple branches and four track express service serving city districts and inner suburbs like Minhang or Baoshan. Has around 11 lines and 470 km.
Shanghai El/Tram/monorail: Miscellaneous rail transit that plugs in any gaps that the previous systems missed like greater coverage of Lujiazui area, tram along the Bund Waterfront area connecting to subway, elevated rail lines, monorails, a railroad line that serves the length of Changxing island, and a Pudong Airport Airtrain that connects the terminals within the airport as well as outside mass transit systems.

This is much more balanced and would serve a city as dynamic as Shanghai much better than one monolithic, but terribly simple metro network. Unfortunately I have no say whatsoever in mass transit planning in Shanghai so I guess I need to be happy with whatever simple, awkward monolith the planners have drawn up for the future.


----------



## kix111

hongqiao maglev & subway stations u/c.......scary, pics by KiD


----------



## koolkid

Indeed


----------



## _Night City Dream_

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> Shanghai will have the largest *subway* network but nowhere near the largest mass transit network. In 2020 Shanghai will have 970 km total urban mass transit network while Tokyo has over ~2000 km right now? And it is FAR behind New York City total urban rail length, with over ~2800 km of track now, excluding the Second Avenue Line


How come New York has got more than 2800 km? It should be a mistake or some rails are counted twice or more.
Tokyo, if I'm not mistaken has got more than 3000 rm of rails.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Alargule, thanks for clarifying the discussion. I want to add as well, that Tokyo Metropolitain area functions as a whole, so we can consider the whole mass transit. What about NY and Atlantic City? NY and New Haven? Are they so well joined together that there's no difference, do they all represent smth which functions as a whole?

And one thing I don't understand:
>>NYC subway has 368km of route length and 1055km of track length.
What do you mean by route length?


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Alargule, thanks for clarifying the discussion. I want to add as well, that Tokyo Metropolitain area functions as a whole, so we can consider the whole mass transit. What about NY and Atlantic City? NY and New Haven? Are they so well joined together that there's no difference, do they all represent smth which functions as a whole?
> 
> And one thing I don't understand:
> >>NYC subway has 368km of route length and 1055km of track length.
> What do you mean by route length?


like for example queens boulevard line is around 10 km from queens plaza to union turnpike. route length is 10km but track length is 40km because it is a 4 track line but it spans only 10 km


----------



## _Night City Dream_

What is the Line 11 length expected?


----------



## sarflonlad

_Night City Dream_ said:


> And one thing I don't understand:
> >>NYC subway has 368km of route length and 1055km of track length.
> What do you mean by route length?


I understand what this means alright - but I don't understand why track length is relevant. No other transit system talks of it. Every line has at least an "up" and a "down" (so that's double length) - some have 4-tracked sections and some approaching termini even have 8 track sections - but it's not actually additional route. 

London currently has the largest subway system with 400km route/revenue collecting length. I believe it also has the second largest urban rail system behind Tokyo - no idea on its length though.

Underground is the only way Shanghai can really go. It's developed prior to railways - whereas e.g. London, developed because of its railways.

The comment about express services is of note. Shanghai could do with some express services from the satellite suburbs. Surely the commute on a subway system becomes tedious?


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

_Night City Dream_ said:


> How come New York has got more than 2800 km? It should be a mistake or some rails are counted twice or more.
> Tokyo, if I'm not mistaken has got more than 3000 rm of rails.


NYC has more than 2800 km of route length (track length is never relevant and no one uses it for any comparisons ever). Here is the breakdown:

LIRR: 1100 km (longest branches are Greenport branch and Montauk branch with 153 km and 169 km respectively.)
Metro North: 614 km (longest branch, Port Jervis branch terminates at Port Jervis, NY with 152 km)
NJ Transit: It was difficult finding official figures but based on this map, and knowing that Morristown line is 92km, it is reasonable to estimate 600-700km total length
NYC Subway: 368 km
JFK Airtrain: 13km
Staten Island Railway: 22km
PATH Train:22km
Newark Light Rail: 8.5 km
Hudson Bergen Light Rail:20.6 km
Total: *2818 km*

Going back on subject, Shanghai's 2020 metro will be ~3 times NYC's subway route length but only 1/3 of NYC's total urban rail network length. Shanghai's 2020 masterplan is quite bland. NYC and Tokyo's networks are a nice mix of subways, light rails, monorails/people movers, and commuter rails, while Shanghai's is just one big monotonous network (hopefully this will change in the future)


----------



## leo_sh

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> NYC has more than 2800 km of route length (track length is never relevant and no one uses it for any comparisons ever). Here is the breakdown:
> 
> LIRR: 1100 km (longest branches are Greenport branch and Montauk branch with 153 km and 169 km respectively.)
> Metro North: 614 km (longest branch, Port Jervis branch terminates at Port Jervis, NY with 152 km)
> NJ Transit: It was difficult finding official figures but based on this map, and knowing that Morristown line is 92km, it is reasonable to estimate 600-700km total length
> NYC Subway: 368 km
> JFK Airtrain: 13km
> Staten Island Railway: 22km
> PATH Train:22km
> Newark Light Rail: 8.5 km
> Hudson Bergen Light Rail:20.6 km
> Total: *2818 km*
> 
> Going back on subject, Shanghai's 2020 metro will be ~3 times NYC's subway route length but only 1/3 of NYC's total urban rail network length.


How about the national railway within the municipality of Shanghai? The tracks used by Shanghai Electricity, Shanghai Alstom, Shanghai Baosteel, Shanghai Power, and many, many other?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Drunkenmunkey, may I repeat my question?
Which area do you consider? It seems to me that you consider the area that is much bigger than the city, even than its agglomeration.
While Tokyo area functions as the whole, there's no difference between Tokyo city, its countless suburbs etc. It's just like a huge huge city, that's why we have to consider all the rail system.


----------



## iampuking

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> NYC has more than 2800 km of route length (track length is never relevant and no one uses it for any comparisons ever). Here is the breakdown:
> 
> LIRR: 1100 km (longest branches are Greenport branch and Montauk branch with 153 km and 169 km respectively.)
> Metro North: 614 km (longest branch, Port Jervis branch terminates at Port Jervis, NY with 152 km)
> NJ Transit: It was difficult finding official figures but based on this map, and knowing that Morristown line is 92km, it is reasonable to estimate 600-700km total length
> NYC Subway: 368 km
> JFK Airtrain: 13km
> Staten Island Railway: 22km
> PATH Train:22km
> Newark Light Rail: 8.5 km
> Hudson Bergen Light Rail:20.6 km
> Total: *2818 km*
> 
> Going back on subject, Shanghai's 2020 metro will be ~3 times NYC's subway route length but only 1/3 of NYC's total urban rail network length. Shanghai's 2020 masterplan is quite bland. NYC and Tokyo's networks are a nice mix of subways, light rails, monorails/people movers, and commuter rails, while Shanghai's is just one big monotonous network (hopefully this will change in the future)


Are you even going to bother responding to my comparision, or do you just prefer arguments that you agree with?


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## drunkenmunkey888

^^
this the comparison you were referring to?:



iampuking said:


> Well you stop at every station on LU's Central line, which, if going from West Ruislip to Epping is 54.9km, you'd pass through 37 stations meaning stations are on average 1.5km apart. Most passengers will not go from one extremity to the other. It takes an 1 hour 30 minutes. Line 11, from the map posted above, is going to have 35 stations over 60km, so the figures should be roughly similar if the line reaches 80km/h between stations.
> 
> I'm not neccessaarily saying it is a good thing, not having express services, just showing you that many lines don't have them and cope fine.


i mean in this case, then yeah longer distances between stations makes not having express easier to deal with. However, then a coverage problem arises. What about those people living between the 1.5km? they would need to walk over half a km to the nearest subway station. Don't you think that instead of having 1.5km between stations that you have .7km between stations and that certain lines make all the stops while other lines make stops 2.5km apart on the same four-track line?

Example: Queens Boulevard line E,F,G,R,V train services. The stretch from Union Turnpike to Lexington Avenue 53rd street is roughly 12km apart. There is a total of 18 stations, .67km apart. E train (F detours after Roosevelt avenue) makes 5 stops in that stretch on the middle two tracks while R (detours after Queens Plaza), V, and G (on weekends and late nights) make all 18 stops. That way, coverage and convenience problem are both solved.

So grittiness, old age, and rat infestation aside, isn't NYC subway by far the greatest system in the world by a wide margin? Shanghai has a chance to create a subway system from scratch, why not include certain elements 
like four track express, which makes the NYC subway almost perfect?


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## iampuking

You can get a bus to a metro station, it is not hard.

Express services are a good addition, and one of NYC subway's (few) good points, but they're a relic of the past and something that wouldn't be cost-effective these days. Almost every other city in the world has no express services for it's metro lines, so it really isn't much of a fuss.


----------



## xote

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> ^^
> 
> You're joking right? Taxis cost 10 yuan minimum while the longest trips on the metro is about 8 yuan.
> 
> 
> 
> That's because most other metros do not serve metropolitan areas spanning 2000 sq miles and over 20-30 million people. Also, most other metros do not have 40 km lines the way Shanghai's does. Compare it with the A train which goes from Washington Heights to Far Rockaway (Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Queens (50km)) is almost all express. Line 11 is going to be even longer than that. Can you imagine having to stop at every stop on 60 km line?


A suburban network in the style of French RER, German S-bahn, or Spanish Cercanias could be more useful than an express system.

The only reason that New York has express trains is because the center of the city is long and skinny. Meaning that the lines have to be bundled in Manhattan, and if you are going to have more tracks to allow for this, might as well offer slightly different service patterns (i.e., express versus local).

Shanghai, as far as I know, does not have this constraint. Hence, it does not need express/local services.


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## drunkenmunkey888

^^
Its not about geographic restraint. Doesn't London and Tokyo also have them (though not as widespread as NYC)? And isn't Seoul Subway Line 9 having a 3 track setup with express during rush hour? Every city can use express service. Most of them just don't have the financial budget to operate them. New Yorkers cannot imagine commuting in a system without express trains and consider any subway without them inferior (rightfully so). Besides aren't S-Bahn, RER, etc. more expensive? NYC express and local are both 2 USD for a flat fare anywhere in the city. 




iampuking said:


> You can get a bus to a metro station, it is not hard.
> 
> Express services are a good addition, and one of NYC subway's (few) good points, but they're a relic of the past and something that wouldn't be cost-effective these days. Almost every other city in the world has no express services for it's metro lines, so it really isn't much of a fuss.



Buses are a pain in the ass though. No one wants to take buses. Anything holds them up, traffic jam, police counter-terrorist search, puerto-rican day parades, aids-walks, trucks unloading large shipments in a two lane street, double-parking, angry middle-eastern cab drivers, handicapped people getting on and off, lack of reliable schedule, etc. (not that these are bad, they give a city an important part of its character) Most people prefer subway-only trip. 

Its interesting how you mention express service in subways are a relic of the past... because the new Second Avenue line (T) will only have two tracks, inconsistent with the rest of the system. Howcome they wouldn't be cost-effective now but were in the past? You brought up a very interesting point on which I'd definitely like to hear more about.


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## iampuking

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> Its interesting how you mention express service in subways are a relic of the past... because the new Second Avenue line (T) will only have two tracks, inconsistent with the rest of the system. Howcome they wouldn't be cost-effective now but were in the past? You brought up a very interesting point on which I'd definitely like to hear more about.


You know what I mean, i'm comparing it to the way the Victorians worked here, they did things that would be considered unthinkable in this world of cost-anaylsis.


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## _Night City Dream_

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> ^^
> Buses are a pain in the ass though.


  You've got the first place!

By the way, would you answer my question, please?


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## drunkenmunkey888

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Drunkenmunkey, may I repeat my question?
> Which area do you consider? It seems to me that you consider the area that is much bigger than the city, even than its agglomeration.
> While Tokyo area functions as the whole, there's no difference between Tokyo city, its countless suburbs etc. It's just like a huge huge city, that's why we have to consider all the rail system.


Well the tri-state area is not as coherent as the Tokyo Metropolitan area because political boundaries are drawn in a way to discourage that. For example, there are four bridges and two tunnels spanning the East River, Five spanning the Harlem river, but only 1 bridge and two tunnels crossing the Hudson river, both of which charge hefty tolls. So development and cohesion is quite uneven on the West side of Manhattan compared to East side. If you are talking in terms of upstate NY or Long Island, then there is very little difference between Westchester and the Bronx or Nassau and Queens. New Haven is a on the Northeastern fringe of the NYC metropolitan area just as Atlantic city is on the Southern fringe. As far as commuting patterns go, a significant majority of people between the area from New Haven to Atlantic City commute to Manhattan for work, thereby effectively becoming de facto suburbs even though politically, they are in New Jersey or Connecticut. In essence, there is nothing too dissimilar between the Tokyo Metropolitan Area and NYC Metropolitan area


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## _Night City Dream_

Then, if so, we can't consider the whole route length in km for this territory if it doesn't function as a whole system.
Because speaking about Shanghai, for ex. we still can't count all the railroads because Zhejiang province, for ex. is not Shanghai any more, and there is a "village gap" between Shanghai City and the province.

So, I resume that it is fair to calculate the lines and railways only within the big City, if it is also a city with its satellites but they all are joined together in a way to represent a whole system.


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## ddes

It is pointless that everyone's arguing about "mine's bigger than yours".

How about looking at it at a smaller picture?

Tokyo: count only everything that Tokyo Metro Co. Ltd and Toei operate. 
New York: count only everything operated by NYCTA.
Shanghai: Shanghai Metro Corporation and Shanghai Modern Rail Transit company.

This gives you a more accurate scale of how massive, how dense a city's metro system is.

Every great city needs time to grow its rail network. Why walk when Shanghai's still crawling? Suburban rail will come, either in a more "Japan's JR" network style or a more direct network like Paris' RER, suburban rail will come.... Just not in this generation.


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## drunkenmunkey888

@ Night City Dream,

I think the general idea is to look at commuting patterns. If most people living in Southern Connecticut or Northern Jersey live there but still commute to NYC for work and leisure, then they are suburbs of NYC and considered to be part of the NYC area even though politically, they are New Jersey and Connecticut. Same with Zhejiang and Jiangsu. If/when Shanghai builds commuter rails into Northern Jiangsu and Southern Zhejiang and many people living in lets say, Kunshan or Jiaxing habitually commute to Shanghai for work and entertainment, then these would be essentially satellite cities or bedroom communities even though politically they are not part of Shanghai municipality and should be considered part of the Shanghai metropolitan area. 



ddes said:


> Every great city needs time to grow its rail network. Why walk when Shanghai's still crawling? Suburban rail will come, either in a more "Japan's JR" network style or a more direct network like Paris' RER, suburban rail will come.... Just not in this generation.


It was more of an off topic debate about whether Tokyo or NYC had a larger network. But yeah that was essentially what I said earlier. These are only plans for 1990-2020. They will be finished in 12 years. Thats a really short time. 12 years ago, 1996, seems like yesterday. Perhaps Shanghai will then release plans for 2020-2050 of massive suburban rail and light rail/monorail/linimo. For example, Dongtan will have an area a third the size of Manhattan. Cars are banned and one metro stop is not enough to serve the entire town. I wouldn't be surprised if it has its own environment friendly mass transit lines that feed into the nearby commuter rail or metro stations. Same with Lingang, one metro line will not be enough to serve the entire circular port. They will probably have to build monorail/light rail because the city will have an area of over 100 sq miles (300 sq km). So far, neither of these have been shown in masterplans so its safe to assume that there probably will be a second master plan for 2020-2050


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## _Night City Dream_

But you know, I may agree with you but one point that stops me from doing so is the notion of a whole system. I can't count the line which connects two cities (city to a town, to a village to another city) if there's still a gap between them.
I made a trip to Hangzhou from Shanghai, but I wouldn't count this railway as part of Shanghai Mass transit. Yes, it is a commuter rail but to me it is not the same as City railway or a subway line. It's something different that I can't accept as similar to subway or to light rails or to heavy rails within a megapolis.

While in Tokyo, everything is OK in this sense I mean railway lines are counted because they are within the huge huge urban formation.


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## ChinaboyUSA

There is something that cities can learn from each other, but every country has its own features, why you guys repeat and insistently want Shanghai Metro and all the surrounded settings to be on express type as NYC, and make everything just so crowded as a whole like Tokyo? 

Express line in NYC is mostly conducted in Manhattan like xeto defined, the island is skinny and long between north and south, what's more, the metro line in NYC with express tracks are mostly on the same direction by one combined track system, i.e., in Manhattan, 4, 5, 6 lines are running like that, 1,2,3 as well; and in Queens, R, V, G, F and E is respectively on express and local track within same direction line. On Shanghai Metro, the city's setting is different from that of NYC, so the network is proper for Shanghai without express track but a more relatively scattered line’s system to meet the commuter's needs.

About Tokyo, it is a different concept from Shanghai and NYC. Tokyo's metro area is unavoidably developed like that because Japan's industrialization but small land property. Shanghai and NYC metro area doesn't need to be concentrated like that, and in my perception, the gaps between satellite cities are much better.


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## nouveau.ukiyo

Hi, I just wanted to clear up some things about the Tokyo system. Maybe after some things are understood they can be applied to Shanghai.

In Tokyo, you got your subways in the core that serve the most dense areas. Then you got your railroads that expand out. The subway is so dense that I think in some wards you are only 400m from a metro stop at any given point. The railroads have no way of getting into the core because it is so dense already (one of the newest subway lines is 48m underground at it's lowest points b/c there is so much stuff underground already). So what's happened is that the railroads and subways made a deal. The railroads build their lines from the subrubs and into an existing subway line. Then it runs on the subway. Many times (especially at peak hours) they are express and only stop at the busier stations (there are sometimes 4 tracks at these stations instead of the usual 2, so that local trains can pull over and let the express pass). This is faster; instead of everyone jamming onto subway cars and going to a station outside the core, then transfering onto the railroads, the railroad comes get you in the city. So many times, you'll be waiting for the subway, your train will come and it won't be a Tokyo Metro train set; instead it's some other company (anyone can take it, tickets work all the same). You will also notice that the railroad cars have identical interiors to subway cars (seats flush against the walls, with large spaces for people to cram in and stand). Railroads and subways are so integrated that most foreigners think it's all the same, b/c it really does seem that way.

Shanghai can adopt some of these ideas, at least for short time. Remember that China will become highly urbanized in the next few decades. Right now the populatoin is at 50/50 urban/rural. The pace of infastructure construction, as fast as it is, is not fast enough. Even though there is a lot of land in the Shanghai metro area to build out on, a quick solution to getting people out of the dense core would be a express system similar to Tokyo and New York's system. In the meantime, a better solution, if there is one, can be created.

P.S. nobody is going to commute to NYC from AC. Atlantic City is far from NYC; Philadelphia is much closer and AC belongs to the Philly Metro area anyway.


----------



## xote

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> New Yorkers cannot imagine commuting in a system without express trains and consider any subway without them inferior (rightfully so).


New Yorkers thinking OTHER subways are inferior? That's rich. :lol:


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## theworldshallcry

xote said:


> New Yorkers thinking OTHER subways are inferior? That's rich. :lol:


They're right, as far as Chicago is concerned. :lol:


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## xote

theworldshallcry said:


> They're right, as far as Chicago is concerned. :lol:


Well, actually, I think that the Chicago system is even worse(Loopty loop what are in an amusement park), but, that was not my point. I was comparing looking down on other MAGNIFICIENT systems such as Tokyo, Hong Kong, and Madrid because they don't have as extensive 4-track layouts on their lines.

THAT is rich. :lol:


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## drunkenmunkey888

xote said:


> Well, actually, I think that the Chicago system is even worse(Loopty loop what are in an amusement park), but, that was not my point. I was comparing looking down on other MAGNIFICIENT systems such as Tokyo, Hong Kong, and Madrid because they don't have as extensive 4-track layouts on their lines.
> 
> THAT is rich. :lol:


Why is that funny? IMO NYC has by far the subway service in the world. So what if its stations and tracks are a bit dirty? All those subways you mentioned, Tokyo's the oldest and only half as old as NYC's. Madrid and Hong Kong are only 1/5th as old. Its trains are clean and the new trains are much nicer than anything I've seen on Hong Kong MTR or Tokyo metro (can't speak for Madrid).

NYC has 24 Hours service, something that Shanghai metro should consider having too. I mean right now it closes at 10pm right? That is just absolutely ridiculous! I mean what was the transit authority thinking? 5 year olds have 10 o'clock bedtimes! I mean if not 24 hour service, then AT ABSOLUTE LEAST 12 am. 

But heres an anecdote on why 4-track layouts can be very handy. The Washington metro (which is one huge bomb shelter) has recently been performing track and station maintenance on the Red, Blue, Orange, and Green lines. This causes trains to share one track both ways at the stretches affected. So for example, if theres construction on the stretch between Farrugut North and Judiciary Square, an eastbound train needs to wait at Farrugut North for a westbound train to go from Judiciary Square to reach Farrugut North before it can depart. And while that same train is traversing this stretch, the next westbound train must wait at Judiciary Square for this one to pass. Sharing one track for two directions cause delays up to twenty minutes. In NYC when they perform such maintenance or construction work, they just re-route the trains to unaffected tracks and service continues as usual. The only bad things is that express trains make local stops or local trains make express stops (which can admittedly be problematic, but just get off at the next stop and take the local train in the reverse direction back. Beats waiting 20 minutes for the train in the opposite direction to pass). There are also maintenance conveniences to four-track layout, not just express service.


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## sarflonlad

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> Why is that funny? IMO NYC has by far the subway service in the world. So what if its stations and tracks are a bit dirty? All those subways you mentioned, Tokyo's the oldest and only half as old as NYC's. Madrid and Hong Kong are only 1/5th as old. Its trains are clean and the new trains are much nicer than anything I've seen on Hong Kong MTR or Tokyo metro (can't speak for Madrid).
> 
> NYC has 24 Hours service, something that Shanghai metro should consider having too. I mean right now it closes at 10pm right? That is just absolutely ridiculous! I mean what was the transit authority thinking? 5 year olds have 10 o'clock bedtimes! I mean if not 24 hour service, then AT ABSOLUTE LEAST 12 am.
> 
> But heres an anecdote on why 4-track layouts can be very handy. The Washington metro (which is one huge bomb shelter) has recently been performing track and station maintenance on the Red, Blue, Orange, and Green lines. This causes trains to share one track both ways at the stretches affected. So for example, if theres construction on the stretch between Farrugut North and Judiciary Square, an eastbound train needs to wait at Farrugut North for a westbound train to go from Judiciary Square to reach Farrugut North before it can depart. And while that same train is traversing this stretch, the next westbound train must wait at Judiciary Square for this one to pass. Sharing one track for two directions cause delays up to twenty minutes. In NYC when they perform such maintenance or construction work, they just re-route the trains to unaffected tracks and service continues as usual. The only bad things is that express trains make local stops or local trains make express stops (which can admittedly be problematic, but just get off at the next stop and take the local train in the reverse direction back. Beats waiting 20 minutes for the train in the opposite direction to pass). There are also maintenance conveniences to four-track layout, not just express service.


New York is a city with a mass grid layout. You can dig up a shallow pit in the grid roads, lay 4 tracks and cover it up.

All other cities suffer from:

1. Being much older than new york and not necessarily following a grid format in road layouts etc. There are things in the way that mean subways are built deep bore... which means:

2. Deep bore is more expensive than cut and cover methods. Having 4 tracks would mean having 4 tunnels - that's very expensive.

NYC is lucky to have a 4-track system: you can divert when there's engineering works going on and you can also run the system 24 hours.

But disruption caused by engineering can be reduced by building a good system in the first place and the demand for a 24 hour service - well, even in NY it's not that high and nor are the frequencies offered. It's a luxury, not a prerequisite. Admittedly, if Shanghai put in 4 tracks it would probably be thankful in the future when construction costs in China are greater. 

New Yorkers seem to rate their system highly amongst others... but push come to shove, if it wasn't in New York, it wouldn't be worth talking about. Sorry but there's nothing unique or particularly special about it other than it's in NYC!


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## drunkenmunkey888

^^

But from what I remembered, Shanghai's subway stations were not that deep underground. They were probably as deep as NYC's on average. And also, isn't Shanghai built on muddy ground so deep bore wouldn't be as expensive as it usually is?

I mean we are talking Shanghai here. Four-track system is going to be more expensive, but for a city like Shanghai, isn't it worth it? Like even in Beijing or Guangzhou, I wouldn't think four-track is a necessity. But Shanghai is widely acknowledged to be the successor of NYC around the middle of the 21st century. Don't you think it needs a subway system at least on par with that of NYC?


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## xote

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> Why is that funny? IMO NYC has by far the subway service in the world. So what if its stations and tracks are a bit dirty? All those subways you mentioned, Tokyo's the oldest and only half as old as NYC's. Madrid and Hong Kong are only 1/5th as old. Its trains are clean and the new trains are much nicer than anything I've seen on Hong Kong MTR or Tokyo metro (can't speak for Madrid).


A BIT dirty? The system is entirely run down thanks to the federal government syphoning off funds from this part of the country to build highways in the sun belt. 



> NYC has 24 Hours service, something that Shanghai metro should consider having too. I mean right now it closes at 10pm right? That is just absolutely ridiculous! I mean what was the transit authority thinking? 5 year olds have 10 o'clock bedtimes! I mean if not 24 hour service, then AT ABSOLUTE LEAST 12 am.


24 hour service is VASTLY overrated. What is the point of having a 24 hour system if during the middle of the night some trains come as infrequently as half an hour?



> But heres an anecdote on why 4-track layouts can be very handy. The Washington metro (which is one huge bomb shelter) has recently been performing track and station maintenance on the Red, Blue, Orange, and Green lines. This causes trains to share one track both ways at the stretches affected. So for example, if theres construction on the stretch between Farrugut North and Judiciary Square, an eastbound train needs to wait at Farrugut North for a westbound train to go from Judiciary Square to reach Farrugut North before it can depart. And while that same train is traversing this stretch, the next westbound train must wait at Judiciary Square for this one to pass. Sharing one track for two directions cause delays up to twenty minutes. In NYC when they perform such maintenance or construction work, they just re-route the trains to unaffected tracks and service continues as usual. The only bad things is that express trains make local stops or local trains make express stops (which can admittedly be problematic, but just get off at the next stop and take the local train in the reverse direction back. Beats waiting 20 minutes for the train in the opposite direction to pass). There are also maintenance conveniences to four-track layout, not just express service.


I lived for a summer in DC, so I got accustomed to the Metro. The Metro, while it is not as extensive in the city and has way too many km of tracks in the suburbs, is for me a great system, impossible to comprae with New York beacuse they are so different. New York has better coverage, but Washington is better maintained. New York has a flat fare, Washington has a far by distance. Washington's Metro is mandated to be financially sufficient, New York's system has to compete with suburban rail for funding by its agency.


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## foxmulder

drunkenmunkey888, please read ChinaboyUSA's post one more time. 

I agree that 10pm is just comedy.


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## sarflonlad

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> ^^
> 
> But from what I remembered, Shanghai's subway stations were not that deep underground. They were probably as deep as NYC's on average. And also, isn't Shanghai built on muddy ground so deep bore wouldn't be as expensive as it usually is?
> 
> I mean we are talking Shanghai here. Four-track system is going to be more expensive, but for a city like Shanghai, isn't it worth it? Like even in Beijing or Guangzhou, I wouldn't think four-track is a necessity. But Shanghai is widely acknowledged to be the successor of NYC around the middle of the 21st century. Don't you think it needs a subway system at least on par with that of NYC?


Indeed some of Shanghai's lines are predominantly on raised viaducts (lines 3&4 from what I remember) and not underground at all. Though I think the underground lines are deep bore from what I remember. The technology to build through muddy ground has been around for a while (you freeze the ground with liquid nitrogen then bore). 

Define what you would require for it to be "on par" with NY... cos from what I see NY could learn from Shanghai: clean things up a little, smart card ticketing, platform edge doors etc.

New York has now ceded it's position to London as the global financial king. London does not have a 24 hour subway system and whilst its longer in length than NYCs, it carries less passengers. Granted London does have 24 hour buses and some surburban rail services... but this just proves whilst a subway is important, it's clearly not the be all and end all of a city. Shanghai's metro plans are impressive - but also a little dull (i.e. another generic Asian metro that will be massive in size) - but there's no reason why in the future we couldn't see 24 hour running at weekends on the system... if there's a demand... i mean they turn the lights off on Pudong about 10pm for a start.


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## _Night City Dream_

4 track lines may be successfully replaced by 2 normal lines. I don't see the necessity of cinstruction 4 track lines. yes, it is not bad, it may help maintain express and common routes but in fact it is all the same as two 2-track parallel lines, right? So, in my opinion, 2 lines with 2 tracks will be better if we build them quite close to each other (with a let's say 300-meter gap between). One may pffer ordinary service, the other may be an express line. And like that, the city coverage seems better than with 4-track lines.


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## ddes

I don't really understand some arguments along this thread.

Some want a suburban rail system for Shanghai NOW, while others expect it to have a dedicated express track while some just want it to run 24 hours.

We are still discussing the ever-expanding Shanghai Metro and its crazy pace of expansion right?

Asian cities on average, close very early, exceptions to the rule include Hong Kong and maybe, forcibly Singapore. A 24 hour Asian city doesn't currently exist for a metro to stay open throughout the night.


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## jeremy1897

I see that many people here think of metro of a city as their home-made cookie that should shape in exactly the way they want. But let us not forget that metro system is a tremedous investment in both finance and engineering, built and designed for the benefit of the city of M+ residents. Every metro system, every individual line, every stop, every tunnel could well be unique to fit its rider's needs. It is reasonable to compare, but the setting also needs to be taken into accounts.

The performance of Shanghai in terms of ridership is still below world's average. According to wiki, it's length ranks 9th (here)but ridership only ranks 14 (here), although quickly rising. It takes time for the city's residents to shift their habit from driving to riding. It also takes time for the majority of the mast population to aford commuting in metro. Also, the mega city has yet to develop an urban-economics pattern like Tokyo where tens of millions of people flood to the city everyday for a living. These all may take years to decades to happen, and that would be the time for some funtionality that you suggested may be demanded. But clearly NOT NOW. As far as a public transportation system is concerned, Shanghai metro is still infant, despite its size which is ever growing.


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## iampuking

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> But from what I remembered, Shanghai's subway stations were not that deep underground. They were probably as deep as NYC's on average. And also, isn't Shanghai built on muddy ground so deep bore wouldn't be as expensive as it usually is?


I think muddy ground is bad for tunnel boring, something like clay is good, London has a clay stratum and that's why it has had an extensive deep-level network since the start of the 20th century.


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## _Night City Dream_

jeremy1987 said:


> The performance of Shanghai in terms of ridership is still below world's average. According to wiki, it's length ranks 9th (here)but ridership only ranks 14 (here), although quickly rising. It takes time for the city's residents to shift their habit from driving to riding.


Partly I agree with you, but I was told there are 2.5 mln cars in Shanghai and the subway was (by the moment I lived there, in 2006) not so vell developed.
It's not only driving-riding aspect, people who don't drive, still use publice transport other than metro: buses and trolleybuses and taxi of course. As soon as they realise that metro is much more confortable and better than buses and trolleybuses, the ridership number will increase.

The length is not by the way a factor to consider. It doesn't speak a lot, actually, only it tells us that people don't travel for work so much, it's not far away in city. On the contrary, total number of ridership is worth considering.


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## loveciye

*line 9*

Does any one know when line 9 will connect with line 3


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## napkcirtap

loveciye said:


> Does any one know when line 9 will connect with line 3


the end of 2008, 3,4,9 will be able to transfer at yishan rd.


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## _Night City Dream_

I really envy Shanghai, such expansion really boggles my mind.

What else will be opened in 2008? Only that part?


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## liwentao_tom

*Xujiahui * *(line 1)*


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## liwentao_tom

*Hongkou Football Stadium* *(line 3,8)*


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## liwentao_tom

*Century Avenue* (line 2,4,6)


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## liwentao_tom

*South Xizang Road* *(line 4,8)*


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## liwentao_tom

*Xinzhuang* *(line 1,5)*



















Xinzhuang Overpass


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## liwentao_tom

*Zhongshan Park* *(line 2,3,4)*


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## liwentao_tom

*Jingjiang Park* *(line 1)*


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## grubeer




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## DJZG

i love those schematic type of information about lines... they didn't leave anything to fail... every entrance, exit, stairs, and then a 3D model of stop... i'm amazed... this is how every serious metro information should look like...


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## elfabyanos

***


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## liwentao_tom

*Extra subway trains to serve Olympics*

By Yang Lifei and Dong Zhen | 2008-7-28 

TO improve transport capacity during the Olympic soccer matches next month, Shanghai metro operators plan to put four additional trains into use.

One train will serve Metro Line 8 starting on Thursday and the other three will serve Metro Line 2 next month before the soccer events are held. 

The city's subway network handled about 2.9 million passengers per day on average, a 40 percent increase from May. However, the number has reached 2.95 million this month and is expected to reach 3.6 million during the Olympics.

In addition to upgrading capacity, metro operators will extend the hours of some metro lines for Olympic soccer games.

A detailed schedule was not yet available, but lines 1 and 4 will operate past the usual closing time of 11pm on August 16, the date of an Olympic quarterfinal soccer match at Shanghai Stadium.

Every metro station in the city will be provided with an Olympic Conductor.

Meanwhile, public toilets have been opened free of charge at all metro lines expect Line 4, whose toilet construction is still ongoing.

Residents over 70 can take the metro train free of charge from August 1 by using a special gate.


----------



## staff

The_BigGeo said:


> Probably Shanghai ought to put a lid on all the skyscraper projects and instead focus its money and resources on constructing tons of metro lines and stations and have the stations close together at least in the city center.


How has the public transit budget anything to do with privately financed skyscraper projects?


----------



## The_BigGeo

Privatize the mass transit projects in the manner of HK's MTR.


----------



## zergcerebrates

Why are so many Chinese marble floors like this:












I see it in malls, airports, train stations is it the way they cut it or something it always look wet on the edges.


----------



## xlchris

I like it  Looks nice and expensive, just a bit more classic.

That overpass is awesome. Not normal anymore


----------



## amirtaheri

I'm thinking the floor wasn't properly sealed with a sealant. When it rains or floods, the water seeps into the stone and stains it. Not sure if it is permanent though.


----------



## kix111

awesome photos~ great job

keep it up


----------



## snow is red

*Line 9 to link transfers*

2008-8-4

SIX of the 10 stops on the extension of Shanghai's Metro Line 9 will function as transfer hubs linking with other Metro Lines. 

The second phase construction of Metro Line 9 will be completed next year to serve the city before World Expo. 

Passengers will be able to take Metro Lines 2, 4 and 6 at Century Avenue Station and transfer to Metro Line 8 at Lujiabang Road Station.

Madang Road Station will be a hub for both Metro Lines 9 and 13, while Jiashan Road has been designed to connect to Metro Line 12. 

Zhaojiabang Road Station is available for Metro Line 7 and Xujiahui Station will also have Metro Line 1 and 11 connections.

Construction of Yishan Road Station, which began under the first phase, will be completed this year to realize the transfer between Metro Lines 9 and 3. 

Metro Line 9 is to be extended north to Songjiang Railway Station, connecting with another railway line to neighboring Zhejiang Province. Line 9 will connect to the Hu-Hang-Yong line that links Shanghai to the cities of Hangzhou and Ningbo. 

The line's first phase, a 31.12-kilometer section, has 13 stations, connecting Songjiang and Xuhui districts.


http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/?id=369216&type=Metro


----------



## staff

liwentao_tom,

Do you have a schedule of when all the lines u/c (and the planned ones too) will open?

All I know is that lines 7, 8 (extension) and 9 (extension) will open next year, and that 11 and 12 will open in 2012.


----------



## staff

Btw, all the schematic station maps that has been posted are available here: http://www.51metro.com.cn/Pages/StationInfo/StaInfo.aspx

All stations on all lines are available.


----------



## hoosier

The_BigGeo said:


> Privatize the mass transit projects in the manner of HK's MTR.


Why? Shanghai's metro system works fine as is.


----------



## liwentao_tom

staff said:


> liwentao_tom,
> 
> Do you have a schedule of when all the lines u/c (and the planned ones too) will open?
> 
> All I know is that lines 7, 8 (extension) and 9 (extension) will open next year, and that 11 and 12 will open in 2012.


2008 line 9 (Yishan road station, interchange station for lines 3&4)
2009.3 line 8 (south extension)
the end of 2009 lines 7, 9 (extension) , 11(phase 1 ) , 5 (south extension)
2010 lines 2(east&west extension),10, 13(phase 1, expo line, only 4 stations)
2012 lines 11 (phase 2) , 12 ,13


----------



## staff

Thanks mate. kay:


----------



## superchan7

zergcerebrates said:


> Why are so many Chinese marble floors like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see it in malls, airports, train stations is it the way they cut it or something it always look wet on the edges.


Construction was not well done, either sloppy work caused spillage before sealant was applied, or no sealant applied at all. This very common in metro stations in China.

Weather is humid there; you might as well assume it's permanent.


----------



## leo_sh

Shanghai is rich in groundwater. You don't have to dig deeper than one meter to see water bubbling out. The most buildings in Shanghai have no basement. If they do, such problems are inevitable.


----------



## irutavias

I never knew Shanghai had such an extensive, ever-expanding and well maintained metro system. Kudos to the government. Are there any sort of statistics that indicate what percentage of the population uses the metro as opposed to cars?


----------



## evangelistik

superchan7 said:


> Construction was not well done, either sloppy work caused spillage before sealant was applied, or no sealant applied at all. This very common in metro stations in China.
> 
> Weather is humid there; you might as well assume it's permanent.




Does this apply to new stations as well, or has China learned their lesson?


----------



## binhai

^^It depends, some stations are built well, while others have a lower standard. However, it is not a major problem, even the poorly installed marble looks better than old stations, and this is happening less and less.


----------



## staff

I photographed this map a couple of days ago. I'm not sure how relevant it is;


----------



## binhai

What does the 长城大厦 have to do with the subway map? Sorry, I'm not an expert on Shanghai, never been there, seems like an amazing city!


----------



## Knuddel Knutsch

where did you photograph this?


----------



## staff

At the Chang Cheng Building's site. 

I guess it is merely illustrating where the Chang Cheng Building will be located in the future metro map of Shanghai. Although, I'm not sure how relevant the map is itself.


----------



## kix111

so many lines, but to be honest, line 1, line 2, line 3 and line 4 are the only lines i have ever taken. 

i live in pudong, so i take line 2 the most to get across to puxi, i try to aviod line 4 because i find it very confusing of which way to take since it goes in a circle.


----------



## staff

^^
It's clearly marked with "inner circle" and "outer circle" on the platforms, plus the the next two stations in each direction are indicated as well. Can't go wrong, really.


----------



## leo_sh

Actually, it's all the same. Both ways you'll get to Puxi side. Sooner or later. Or depends which part of Puxi you want to reach.


----------



## staff

Well, if you're at Caoyang Lu and want to go to Zhongshan Gongyuan I wouldn't recommend taking the inner ring.


----------



## The Chemist

staff said:


> ^^
> It's clearly marked with "inner circle" and "outer circle" on the platforms, plus the the next two stations in each direction are indicated as well. Can't go wrong, really.


Plus the PA announcement tells you the major stations in the direction of incoming trains.  The first time you ride line 4 you need to pay attention to the map to make sure you take the right train, but after that it's a piece of cake. I know - it's my usual daily commute line.


----------



## liwentao_tom

*New peak hour frequencies*

New peak hour frequencies 

Sep.1st

line 5: 4m30s (30seconds cut)
line 6: 6.5m/13m (30seconds cut)
line 8: 5m (45seconds cut)
line 9: 12m30s (120seconds cut)


----------



## Matthewcssdf

*Just something I noticed*

I've been trying to figure out what was missing from all those stations and it finally occurred to me:

There are almost no ads anywhere (except a few on the trains themselves). Is this the norm in China? Here in Vancouver they place ads everywhere they can (not that I mind).


----------



## staff

^^
There are a lot of ads in the Shanghai Metro--both in stations and trains, most of it are on flat-screens though.


----------



## snow is red

*Metro line goes quiet, green*

2008-11-11 

SHANGHAI engineers have found a way to cut noise pollution and reduce the types of emissions responsible for global warming at the same time.

In what is admittedly a small step in the bigger battle against pollution, the city is embedding solar cells in sound-proofing boards that will be placed along Metro Line 3. 

The boards, fitted with photovoltaic cells that turn sunlight into electricity, are now being installed between Changjiang Road S. and Yingao Road W., an elevated Metro route, said Gao Guorong, manager of the technology and equipment department of Shanghai Metro Operation Co. 

Gao said the pioneering program is supported by technical expertise from the Shanghai University of Electric Power. 

The 360-meter-long stretch of boards installed between the two stations cost 600,000 yuan (US$87,889).

The technology may be used at more Metro stations if the cost can be reduced. About 200 square meters of boards fitted with solar cells can generate 5,000 kilowatt-hours of electricity every year, offsetting about 3,500 kilograms of carbon dioxide discharges from traditional power plants producing the same amount of electricity. 

Electricity from the Line 3 cells will be used to light nearby Metro stations. 

While solar energy is clean and renewable it is more expensive that power from coal-fired plants. Without government subsidies, there is little incentive to go solar, insiders said. 

China's biggest solar power energy station is in Shanghai's Chongming County.

The station was tested and connected to the Shanghai power grid in September 2007. The government buys the electricity for 4 yuan per kilowatt hour.

Energy experts have urged the government to provide more support to solar energy so that more families will choose the renewable energy source.

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/?id=380187&type=Metro


----------



## abcgoodest

by the way? why don't they actually name the lines, instead of just giving them a number?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Naming the lines is not convenient for many passengers, especially foreginers. Giving numbers to lines is the best way to make the system comprehensible.

Byt the way, can anyone post here some more pics of new Shanghai lines, I'd rather see elevated lines or underground ones that look original? Thank you.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

Will Shanghai build suburban rail similar to the type they have in Beijing? Because it doesn't seem practical to use conventional metro to reach distant places like Chongming, Nanhui, Fengxian, etc. Wouldn't confining a metro to urban or inner suburban districts and rely on suburban rail to service outlying suburbs?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

I don't see a problem here, they may build several lines across the agglomeration with much larger distances between stations and longer trains (up to 250 m). And these lines may be esily included in the whol mass transit system.


----------



## UD2

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> Will Shanghai build suburban rail similar to the type they have in Beijing? Because it doesn't seem practical to use conventional metro to reach distant places like Chongming, Nanhui, Fengxian, etc. Wouldn't confining a metro to urban or inner suburban districts and rely on suburban rail to service outlying suburbs?


Beijing have a suburban rail? which one?


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

UD2 said:


> Beijing have a suburban rail? which one?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S2_Line,_Beijing_Suburban_Railway

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-08/07/content_9013624.htm


----------



## liwentao_tom

*New peak hour frequencies *

line 1: 2m45s (main line) 5m30s ( northern extension)
line 2: 3m09s
line 3: 5m30s (main line) 16m30s( northern extension)
line 4: 5m30s (Outer&Inner circles) 
line 5: 4m30s
line 6: 6.5m/13m 
line 8: 5m
line 9: 9m58s


----------



## kelly

Shanghai have a suburban rail line to Jinshang


----------



## liwentao_tom

*Record Metro numbers expected*

AN estimated *3.92 million *passengers a day will send Shanghai's Metro network to its busiest-ever Spring Festival peak next month, Metro operators said yesterday as they announced the ground-breaking for the city's latest Metro project. 

The operators said the average daily turnover on the city's eight Metro lines during the 40-day transport peak will reach 3.2 million people, an increase of 15 percent from the same period last year. At peaks, the network could be transporting a record-breaking 3.92 million passengers on a single day. 

The busiest service day so far this year fell on September 12 when the Metro network transported 3.9 million travelers - that was the working day before the national holiday in the Mid-Autumn Festival. 

Metro operators said they plan to make full use of backup trains to handle the transport peaks and will introduce more services at stations. Attendants on duty by ticket-vending machines will carry small banknotes and coins so they can offer change to passengers to reduce queuing times. Station staff will also carry sick bags - the Spring Festival is a traditional Chinese holiday filled with banquets and drinking. 

*The construction of Shanghai's newest Metro project, the first phase of Line 13, began yesterday*, the Shanghai Metro construction headquarters said. The first phase of Line 13 will stretch to 16.4 kilometers and will create a major new east-west city line from Jiading District to downtown Jing'an. It will run through Putuo and Zhabei. 

Line 13's first phase, which is completely underground, will have 14 stations and will be connected with lines 1, 2, 3 and the future lines 7, 11 and 12. Travelers can interchange to other lines from five of Line 13's future stations. 

*Four new Metro projects will be in service by the end of next year. *


----------



## liwentao_tom

*The extension of Metro Line 9 opens*

Yishan Station on Line 9, which connects to Line 3, opened on December 28.

Line 9 connects Songjiang New Town with Guilin Road in Xuhui District while Line 3 runs between Shanghai South Railway Station in the southwest to Jiangwan Town in the northeast.

A shuttle bus running between Guilin Road Station on Line 9 and Yishan Road Station on Line 3 will be cancelled when the new station opens.


----------



## liwentao_tom

*New trains for line 9*


----------



## ode of bund

> Scion;22408836I mean, imagine someone going from North Jiang Yang Rd to Xin Zhuang...how long would that take??


Which I did. Rode the entire length of line 3 from Jiang Yang Rd to Shanghai South RW Station, then walked to line 1. Took about 77 minutes.


----------



## The Chemist

Does anyone know when Line 2 will get platform screen doors installed? It seems like the platforms are VERY busy at rush hour on the central stations, and could certainly use to have them installed. Any plans to do so? 

Who makes those new Line 9 trains, and what will happen to the Bombardier trains currently used on Line 9?


----------



## leo_sh

The new Line 2 screen door project has been commissioned.

The new Line 9 trains are made by Changchun-Bombardier, as the old ones. 

The old Changchun-Bombardier rolling stocks are still in the service of Line 9 and will stay.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

liwentao_tom said:


> AN estimated *3.92 million *passengers a day will send Shanghai's Metro network to its busiest-ever Spring Festival peak next month, Metro operators said yesterday as they announced the ground-breaking for the city's latest Metro project.
> 
> The operators said the average daily turnover on the city's eight Metro lines during the 40-day transport peak will reach 3.2 million people, an increase of 15 percent from the same period last year. At peaks, the network could be transporting a record-breaking 3.92 million passengers on a single day.
> 
> The busiest service day so far this year fell on September 12 when the Metro network transported 3.9 million travelers - that was the working day before the national holiday in the Mid-Autumn Festival.
> 
> Metro operators said they plan to make full use of backup trains to handle the transport peaks and will introduce more services at stations. Attendants on duty by ticket-vending machines will carry small banknotes and coins so they can offer change to passengers to reduce queuing times. Station staff will also carry sick bags - the Spring Festival is a traditional Chinese holiday filled with banquets and drinking.
> 
> *The construction of Shanghai's newest Metro project, the first phase of Line 13, began yesterday*, the Shanghai Metro construction headquarters said. The first phase of Line 13 will stretch to 16.4 kilometers and will create a major new east-west city line from Jiading District to downtown Jing'an. It will run through Putuo and Zhabei.
> 
> Line 13's first phase, which is completely underground, will have 14 stations and will be connected with lines 1, 2, 3 and the future lines 7, 11 and 12. Travelers can interchange to other lines from five of Line 13's future stations.
> 
> *Four new Metro projects will be in service by the end of next year. *


Howcome Shanghai's ridership is lower than Beijing's? Doesn't Shanghai have better coverage, more track length, and larger population?


----------



## Svartmetall

Wow, services stop really early in Shanghai. Is this only during construction?


----------



## city_thing

liwentao_tom said:


> *New peak hour frequencies *
> 
> line 1: 2m45s (main line) 5m30s ( northern extension)
> line 2: 3m09s
> line 3: 5m30s (main line) 16m30s( northern extension)
> line 4: 5m30s (Outer&Inner circles)
> line 5: 4m30s
> line 6: 6.5m/13m
> line 8: 5m
> line 9: 9m58s


These _peak hour_ frequencies don't seem very good either. I'd expect them for non-peak (although 9m58 is pushing it a bit....) but for a city as big as Shanghai, I'd have thought at least 1 minute frequencies for all lines during peak hour would be the norm.

Maybe the Shanghai Metro Corporation needs a stern talking to by the nice people at Hong Kong MTR....?


----------



## liwentao_tom

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> Howcome Shanghai's ridership is lower than Beijing's? Doesn't Shanghai have better coverage, more track length, and larger population?


Because the ticket only cost 2 yuan in Beijing (no matter how long you take). But in Shanghai it's 3--9 yuan,far more expensive than buses.


----------



## liwentao_tom

Line Opened Newest Extension Length Stations 
1 1995 2007 36.4 km 28 
2 1999 2006 25.2 km 17 
3 2000 2006 40.3 km 29 
4 2005 2007 33.7 km 26 
5 2003 2003 17.0 km 11 
6 2007 2007 33.1 km 27 
8 2007 2007 23.3 km 20 
9 2007 2008 35.4 km 13 
Total: 234.7 km 163


----------



## quashlo

city_thing said:


> but for a city as big as Shanghai, I'd have thought at least 1 minute frequencies for all lines during peak hour would be the norm.


The system is still growing... I think we just need to give it time to mature.
Besides, I have yet to see anything close to one minute frequencies (60tph!) anywhere. With the volumes of passengers that Shanghai is and will be dealing with at major stations, two minutes is probably the limit without additional platform capacity.


----------



## gincan

quashlo said:


> The system is still growing... I think we just need to give it time to mature.
> Besides, I have yet to see anything close to one minute frequencies (60tph!) anywhere. With the volumes of passengers that Shanghai is and will be dealing with at major stations, two minutes is probably the limit without additional platform capacity.


Moscow has 40 seconds between trains...


----------



## quashlo

What I have heard from Moscow is 40-45 tph, which is quite good, of course, but it's still a big jump from that to 60tph. You have to lose 30 seconds there for each train. Probably not feasible if you have any stations where there is significant loading and/or alighting leading to long dwell times. Clearly you could design your station with two island platforms and have staggered arrival/departure, or have people alight on one side and board on the other, but these aren't typically elements designed or implemented from the get-go... They're more _possible_ solutions to capacity is maxed out.

And please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've seen trains in the Moscow Metro open doors before the train has even stopped. While this does help reduce the dwell times a bit and probably helps allow for higher frequencies, I don't think it's accepted as safe practice elsewhere.

Hong Kong and Tokyo, which are more similar to Shanghai, still don't break 2 min.


----------



## ddes

Was wondering if those who know could either post them here or direct me to somewhere which has more pictures of the Shanghai Metro?

Also, what is the alignment of Line 13? A map would be helpful.


----------



## liwentao_tom

*new record set*

2008/12/31
new ridership record: 4,362,000
line 1: 1,362,000
2: 1,129,000
3: 508,000
4: 526,000
5: 125,000
6: 163,000
8: 440,000
9: 110,000


----------



## abcgoodest

does anyone have an updated map of future routes?


----------



## The Chemist

This map just appeared recently on Wikipedia. It's a good outline of the upcoming new lines and extensions. 

It's really huge so I'll just post the link.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Shanghaimetro_2012_en.jpg


----------



## iampuking

gincan said:


> Moscow has 40 seconds between trains...


Yes, that is between the last train leaving and the next one arriving. 

What was being discussed was *headway* which is the time between two trains passing the same point.

Moscow, AFAIK, has 95sec headways on the busiest lines which is 38tph.

This will give the impression that trains are running at "40 second frequencies" because the train behind a train sitting idle in a station will undoubtedly catch up. This effect is magnified if there have been delayed and there is a backlog of trains...


----------



## _Night City Dream_

liwentao_tom said:


> Line Opened Newest Extension Length Stations
> 1 1995 2007 36.4 km 28
> 2 1999 2006 25.2 km 17
> 3 2000 2006 40.3 km 29
> 4 2005 2007 33.7 km 26
> 5 2003 2003 17.0 km 11
> 6 2007 2007 33.1 km 27
> 8 2007 2007 23.3 km 20
> 9 2007 2008 35.4 km 13
> Total: 234.7 km 163


Does it mean that line 3 and 4 have a common 10-km track?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

*iampuking*, surely 40 sec for Moscow is nothing about headways. But the peak headway might reach 80 - 95 sec, I've seen it many times, and that was not between a pair of trains but a real headway detected within 6 or 7 pairs of trains (I had no time to watch more). Anyway, probably, this has been the word record so far?

P.S. Speaking about the first figure (between the 1st train's departure and the following's arrival), I've seen many times 35 seconds, and the least was 30. But in that case the train stayed longer and made a headway of 75 sec.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

quashlo said:


> And please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've seen trains in the Moscow Metro open doors before the train has even stopped. While this does help reduce the dwell times a bit and probably helps allow for higher frequencies, I don't think it's accepted as safe practice elsewhere.
> 
> Hong Kong and Tokyo, which are more similar to Shanghai, still don't break 2 min.


You're absolutely right, very often in rush hour doors are opened before the train has completely stopped but is it not a legal practice  I mean this is practised when the tarin is late by several seconds (so precious at rush hour!)

As for Tokyo, they can afford to have such headways with their hundred of lines...


----------



## iampuking

_Night City Dream_ said:


> *iampuking*, surely 40 sec for Moscow is nothing about headways. But the peak headway might reach 80 - 95 sec, I've seen it many times, and that was not between a pair of trains but a real headway detected within 6 or 7 pairs of trains (I had no time to watch more). Anyway, probably, this has been the word record so far?
> 
> P.S. Speaking about the first figure (between the 1st train's departure and the following's arrival), I've seen many times 35 seconds, and the least was 30. But in that case the train stayed longer and made a headway of 75 sec.


I don't know of personal observations but i've checked russian websites and they have shown that the busiest lines run 95sec headways; 38tph. 

How close the trains appear to be is irrelevant as it does not represent the overall passenger carrying capacity.


----------



## The Chemist

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Does it mean that line 3 and 4 have a common 10-km track?


Yes, they share an elevated section of track.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

iampuking said:


> I don't know of personal observations but i've checked russian websites and they have shown that the busiest lines run 95sec headways; 38tph.
> 
> How close the trains appear to be is irrelevant as it does not represent the overall passenger carrying capacity.


I've seen it many times and that was, I repeat, not between two trains only. 95 seconds is a more or less official figure, but in fact it may often be lower.


You are absolutely right with the statement. For me, a figure like "38tph" doesn't say anything important because average speed is not mentioned. And indeed, it should be.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

The Chemist said:


> Yes, they share an elevated section of track.


I know that, I just didn't know that the shared piece is 10 km long.


----------



## iampuking

_Night City Dream_ said:


> I've seen it many times and that was, I repeat, not between two trains only. 95 seconds is a more or less official figure, but in fact it may often be lower.


Why would signallers deliberately increase the timetabled frequency?



_Night City Dream_ said:


> You are absolutely right with the statement. For me, a figure like "38tph" doesn't say anything important because average speed is not mentioned. And indeed, it should be.


No, that's not what I meant. How close together trains appear when standing at the platform is irrelevant, as if it is timetabled to 38tph then there will be 38 trains per hour and that is the capacity.

Average speed is important if we are discussing about journey times, but we are not.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

I don't know why but it happens. And as I already said, it occurs not with 2 trains only.

It is often seen on lines 3 (dark blue), sometimes 6 (orange) or 9 (grey).


----------



## iampuking

_Night City Dream_ said:


> I don't know why but it happens. And as I already said, it occurs not with 2 trains only.
> 
> It is often seen on lines 3 (dark blue), sometimes 6 (orange) or 9 (grey).


But how can you tell? You are only viewing a small snapshot of the service, are you working in the control centre??!?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

I am not going to argue, that's not my objective, however, 10 minutes is not a small snapshot during rush hour since headways are so short. I've just told you about what occurs in Moscow and what the Shanghai metro should strive for.

If you are interested, I may copy the timetable.

Let's get back to the topic.


----------



## snow is red

*Train intervals to shorten on Line 6*

2009-1-8


THE interval between trains on Metro Line 6 will be reduced to three-and-half minutes later this year, Xinhua News Agency reported today.

New carriages will be delivered in June and the city's subway operator will put them into use upon completion of safety tests.

The interval is presently more than six minutes on Line 6. About 50 percent of all passengers use the line during morning and evening rush hours, which causes overcrowding.

In addition, Line 7, the second phase of lines 8 and 9 and phase one of Line 11 are expected to open by the end of the year.

Shanghai's subway network will stretch about 340 kilometers when these open.

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/article/2009/200901/20090108/article_387377.htm


----------



## _Night City Dream_

drunkenmunkey888 can't help mentioning his lovely 4-track lines  here and there.



> parallel 2-track lines would double the catchment area for essentially the same cost.


Sure, this will be more efficient and effective than 4-track system.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Deng said:


> Also, from my experience on the Shanghai metro, getting across town doesn't take a ridiculous amount of time. For example, from the end of line 2 at Zhangjiang to People's Square takes 15 minutes including time spent waiting on the platform. I haven't done a complete end-to-end test but I am sure that it is not as bad as it's made out to be.


I remember taking the whole line 3 and that was some 40 minutes.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

Deng said:


> I don't believe that the first picture (the one without the long blue lines) illustrates anything much to worry about.
> 
> The lines don't really go into the suburbs. So for service to Chongming or some other outlying area I believe there will be suburban rail or express tracks to accommodate. Anything short of that would be incomprehensible.


I really really hope that you are right. I mean its not too late to add express service above or underneath the existing lines like the 4,5,6 service north of Grand Central. Hopefully Shanghai metro planners have that on their drawing boards


----------



## napkcirtap

i don't think the officials will consider 4track express service in shanghai, however ,there are some stations with 3tracks, maybe this configuration will allow certain trains to bypass stations in peak direction, maybe we will have semi-express in the future?


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

napkcirtap said:


> i don't think the officials will consider 4track express service in shanghai, however ,there are some stations with 3tracks, maybe this configuration will allow certain trains to bypass stations in peak direction, maybe we will have semi-express in the future?


Which lines have three track configuration?


----------



## loveciye

*Subway line 7 train picture*


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Similar to the rolling stock at which line? 3? With an exception for the frontal part.


----------



## Falubaz

When exactly starts the line 7?


----------



## loveciye

*Line 7*

Line seven is planned to be opened by the end of 2009 or begin of 2010.


----------



## The Chemist

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Similar to the rolling stock at which line? 3? With an exception for the frontal part.


No, I believe that's pretty much identical to the new stock on Line 9. Line 3 trains are Alstom, like the 8-car stock on Lines 1 and 2, and the Line 8 stock.


----------



## city_thing

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> Its 21 lines is not as great as it seems! It should be a point of disappointment rather than celebration! The reason why Shanghai seems to be on its way to have the largest metro system in the world is because no other city is stupid enough not to separate suburban rail from subway. Look at other truly world class cities, London, Tokyo, Paris, New York, Rome, Copenhagen, etc. They all have a metro system that services the downtown and inner suburbs, but for outer suburbs, they use legitimate suburban rail lines. Even Beijing is starting to do this (Beijing Suburban Railway Line 2)! And to be honest because Shanghai's city planners are stupid enough to combine suburban rail and subway, its system of 970 km should be compared to other city's subway PLUS suburban rail, in which case you realize Shanghai's rail network is pitifully small. For example, New York has around 3000 km of _route_ length (where four tracks servicing the same route is only counted once as oppose to four) when you combine the subway and its three suburban rail systems. Tokyo has well over 2000 km.
> 
> As a native Shanghainese, I am very disappointed to see my home city's metro being butchered by inept planners. Alas, there's nothing any ordinary forumer like us can do.


Very well said!

There's some enormous planning mistakes coming out of China in its rush to the 'biggest' and 'best'.


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## napkcirtap

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> Which lines have three track configuration?


various stops on line 9 in the western part of shanghai. guilin rd; zhongcun rd. etc. and some stops on line 8 in Yangpu district.


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## particlez

> Very well said!
> 
> There's some enormous planning mistakes coming out of China in its rush to the 'biggest' and 'best'.


^let's not take drunkenmonkey seriously. to rag on and on about a need for new york-esque express suburban service just doesn't make sense. he (and the ones who parrot his sentiments) does not realize that comprehensive yet often disappointing suburban services in many/most places occur because of dysfunctionally LOW suburban densities sprawling into the distance.

you want high minimum levels of density! that minimizes the built urban area and makes public transport efficient. the folks who don't get this axiom are just... out there. the higher densities, along with an aversion to car-based infrastructure and continued PT investment will result in a functional system. 

i repeat, NO urban planner is stupid enough to not plan for suburban stops along the various intercity railways, especially in any rail-based transport system. that's so stupid, it's never been attempted before.


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## Svartmetall

^^ Have you looked at how long some of these lines are going to be? It is inefficient to have a metro serve all of those areas, high density or not.


----------



## staff

I'm pretty sure the Shanghai transit planners (consulting some of the best in the world, including those from MTR HK) knows what they're doing. The vast metro network we see in these "future-plans" is merely the backbone of Shanghai's transit system. 
LRT/tram lines are already being constructed as tests on the fringes of the urban area, and we'll surely see some kind of express-like system in the future, however far different than the express lines of the NYC Subway (as has been mentioned - Shanghai is hyperdense throughout the urban area and not in a small island in the middle like NYC).

Why do people think that the Shanghai transit network will stop developing after ~2020 (which is when the furthest "future-plans" go)? Give them time- after all Shanghai is finishing some 2-3 new metro lines every year at the moment, it's nearly impossible to work faster than that. What we see now is merely the beginning of what will be the most massive and efficient transit system on the planet in the future. Trust me.


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## asif iqbal

i dont think any city in the world is developing as fast as Shanghai its amazing! give shanghai 5 years and it will be right at the top if its not already there that is


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## quashlo

napkcirtap said:


> various stops on line 9 in the western part of shanghai. guilin rd; zhongcun rd. etc. and some stops on line 8 in Yangpu district.


Are the third tracks used for anything right now? What is the configuration of the platforms?


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## napkcirtap

quashlo said:


> Are the third tracks used for anything right now? What is the configuration of the platforms?


side platforms, with the third track being in the middle. but these are not consecutive stops, i don't know the exact purpose of the third track. maybe we will get this semi express/ skip-stop service in the future. or maybe this is just used to relay trains.


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## quashlo

particlez said:


> you want high minimum levels of density! that minimizes the built urban area and makes public transport efficient. the folks who don't get this axiom are just... out there. the higher densities, along with an aversion to car-based infrastructure and continued PT investment will result in a functional system.


I think you are confusing the question... Nobody is disputing this, but the issue isn't about density, it's about travel time. Offering express or limited-stop service is about giving people the option to reach a larger number of places within the same amount of time. Let's say the average passenger's "limit" for travel is 45 minutes. You can have trains running every 2 minutes, but if they're all local trains, you can only get so far, maybe from one end of the one of those extended lines to the CBD. Now start building passing tracks at key stations and tweaking the schedules so you can start running limited-stop trains... In the same 45 minutes, you might be able to get somewhere on the other end of the line, or have time to transfer to other lines to reach other places.



particlez said:


> i repeat, NO urban planner is stupid enough to not plan for suburban stops along the various intercity railways, especially in any rail-based transport system. that's so stupid, it's never been attempted before.


Is there a map of these services anywhere? Maybe overlayed with the metro network?


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## particlez

> Have you looked at how long some of these lines are going to be? It is inefficient to have a metro serve all of those areas, high density or not.


i'm assuming you've never ridden the system. you should at least get a scale map, and compare the shanghai subway with the subways of similarly large cities. those supposedly long shanghai route distances do not come close to the distances of london's central, piccadily, northern, etc. lines. would shanghai benefit from a 4-track express system? yes, but so would most every other large city. at the same time, a new york style express system isn't practical on a cost-benefit basis. very few people will ride the entire line lengths anyway, as the CBD is located in the center. 

the key ISN'T simply just the aggregate rail length. cities need to have compact footprints and correspondingly high densities to make rail based transit work.

drunkenmonkey has an obsession with four-line tracks, which are fine and good, but have only been made possible due to manhattan's very strange geography.


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## particlez

quashlo, i didn't make my point clearly. the high densities by definition will permit shorter travel times. the colored lines run through the urbanized areas of shanghai, and have routes roughly between 20 and 40 kilometers long. unless you're commuting from one far-flung suburb to another, most trips will come in well under an hour.

it's not markedly different from vancouver's skytrain line, which falls in between, but has its largest commercial node at one end. criticizing shanghai for its line lengths simply does not make sense. 

the blue lines will extend to the various satellite cities. these ones will have fewer stops and longer distances. 

then there are the intercity lines to other cities within the region.


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## rhotidhs7

It's nice. But i heard the Seoul(Capital of South Korea) has the biggest metro lines.


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## The Chemist

Does anybody here know what the deal is with the double platform (doors opening on both sides) on southbound Line 8 at People's Square? The other side platform looks very temporary (signage, walls, etc), and I haven't been able to figure out why it's there.


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## The Chemist

particlez said:


> quashlo, i didn't make my point clearly. the high densities by definition will permit shorter travel times. the colored lines run through the urbanized areas of shanghai, and have routes roughly between 20 and 40 kilometers long. unless you're commuting from one far-flung suburb to another, most trips will come in well under an hour.


Line 2 will be 62km long when the Airport extensions open next year. But I doubt that every single train will run the whole length - I expect it's going to be something like the situation currently on Line 1 (some trains terminate at Shanghai Railway Station rather than going on to Fujin Road) where some trains will terminate at Zhangjiang High Tech Park rather than going on to Pudong Airport. 

Lines 7 and 9 will also be longer than 40km as of next year. 

But I do agree with your point - the journey times on the Shanghai Metro are not horrible. I think that express lines are not really needed on the system. And where the lines get out into far-flung suburbs (such as on lines 6 and 9) the stations become further apart, so the metro becomes more like a commuter system anyway.


----------



## napkcirtap

The Chemist said:


> Does anybody here know what the deal is with the double platform (doors opening on both sides) on southbound Line 8 at People's Square? The other side platform looks very temporary (signage, walls, etc), and I haven't been able to figure out why it's there.



the new platforms are built on what used to be relay tracks. there were two tracks for relay, one for line 1 and one for line8, the demolished the line 8 tracks and converted the space into a platform, the line 1 track is still behind thouse temporary walls. there are plans to demolish the line 1 relay tracks and expand the current new platform, so sb 8 train and nb 1 train passengers can have crossplatform transfers.


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## napkcirtap

The Chemist said:


> Line 2 will be 62km long when the Airport extensions open next year. But I doubt that every single train will run the whole length - I expect it's going to be something like the situation currently on Line 1 (some trains terminate at Shanghai Railway Station rather than going on to Fujin Road) where some trains will terminate at Zhangjiang High Tech Park rather than going on to Pudong Airport.
> 
> Lines 7 and 9 will also be longer than 40km as of next year.
> 
> But I do agree with your point - the journey times on the Shanghai Metro are not horrible. I think that express lines are not really needed on the system. And where the lines get out into far-flung suburbs (such as on lines 6 and 9) the stations become further apart, so the metro becomes more like a commuter system anyway.


plans r for the 2 trains to terminate 5-8 kilometers from the current zhangjiang terminal and 2-east trains will start from there on all the way to PVG, platforms on the eastern extension can only accomidate 6 car trains while platforms on the rest of the lines do 8 car trains, there will be limited thru train service during rush hour, during off peak hours , u will have to transfer at this terminal.


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## particlez

woops, i didn't factor in the expansions. but anyway, the longest subways lines still aren't longer than many lines in other large cities. who's going to ride the entire line distances anyway? line 7 snakes around the city and is/will be intersected by other lines. line 2 goes from one satellite city in the east to another in the far west, passing through the inner urbanized area and swaths of farmland. someone travelling the entire length of line 2 would be akin to (in terms of population spanned) going from the far stretches of the long island railroad to the far stretches of the PATH trains in new jersey.

many of shanghai's detractors are motivated by ignorance and/or tribal loyalty. unfortunately, they do not realize that its urban form is inherently more conducive to efficient rapid transit (for a city of its size) than what they're generally familiar with. the whole point is to maintain high densities throughout the city.


----------



## staff

The Chinese version of Google Maps now shows the entire metro system (as well as every single bus stop) in Shanghai and various other cities in China apparently.

EDIT: Seems like it shows current traffic flows at all the major arteries too! Cool.


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## FabriFlorence

The Chemist said:


> Line 2 will be 62km long when the Airport extensions open next year...


62 Km!!! I suppose It will be the longest metro line in the word. :nuts:


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## quashlo

particlez said:


> many of shanghai's detractors are motivated by ignorance and/or tribal loyalty. unfortunately, they do not realize that its urban form is inherently more conducive to efficient rapid transit (for a city of its size) than what they're generally familiar with. the whole point is to maintain high densities throughout the city.


I have heard much of what is being said by "ignorant" outsiders in this thread repeated by people who are from Shanghai and familiar with the system (and I'm not talking about *drunkenmonkey888*).


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## ode of bund

Line 2 has the highest congregation of white collar workers since this line travels through Lujiazui financial disctrict and terminates at Zhangjiang High Tech Park. Girls of extraordinary beauty are also more easily to be seen than any other subways.:lol::lol::bowtie::tongue2:


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## Ashis Mitra

I have some questions – 
1)	From http://www.subways.net/china/shanghai.htm, & from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Metro I’ve read that line 3, 4, 6 & 8, and proposed line 7, 10 & 13 are underground light rail line, not metro line. Am I correct? 

2)	Any remaining of the now closed tram system is present in today's Shanghai?

3)	I knew from www.lrta.org that Shanghai is thinking now to return its tramway. But has the construction started? If no, when it will start?


----------



## staff

Ashis Mitra said:


> I have some questions –
> 1)	From http://www.subways.net/china/shanghai.htm, & from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Metro I’ve read that line 3, 4, 6 & 8, and proposed line 7, 10 & 13 are underground light rail line, not metro line. Am I correct?


Nope, "light rail" is Chinese terminology for elevated rail.


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## staff

Tourist Metro passes on the way


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## Ashis Mitra

staff said:


> Nope, "light rail" is Chinese terminology for elevated rail.


So I can call all lines from 1 to 9 as metro, not light rail, alright?


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## Ashis Mitra

The_BigGeo said:


> I meant the master plan of 970+ km is too big to be practical. That's actually 2x the London Underground. There's nothing wrong with a large, massive system, but large systems are difficult to maintain. I've taken the NYC subway several times, and found it to be somewhat chaotic w/ a lot of glitches in the way it runs. I mean, if Shanghai needs like 1000km+ of rail, it's better to have 3-4 specialized networks with different kinds of service instead of a giant metro system. This also may lead to efficiency, since when transportation networks compete w/ each other, it leads to better services to attract riders.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't literally mean that the system is COMPLETELY underground. It's many of the NEW lines have too many km underground. Like Line 8, which is 30+km and completely underground. Or the eastern extension of Line 2, being mostly underground even though the area it passes isn't as dense as downtown. You can tell from pictures of the Maglev, since they're running parallel routes. I think that lines outside the circle (Line 4) should be above ground except for special cases, maybe.
> 
> 
> 
> According to Wikipedia, 3rd rail uses 700-750V, and overhead uses 1500V. 3rd rail is less prone to damage and accidents, easier to install and uses less electricity, which may help Shanghai being green a bit. Also, a metro isn't high speed rail, so it doesn't need to travel really fast. 3rd rail is capable of up to 80km/hr, which is adequate for a metro line.


1)	Making elevated lines are much less costly than underground lines, but elevated lines sometimes damages scenic beauty of the city. Whereas although underground lines are costliest, but there are no question for damaging scenic beauty. Side by side, anybody con enjoy a bird’s eye view of the city from an elevated metro, whereas from underground metro, there is nothing to see mostly than dark tunnel.
2)	Although 3rd rail is less prone to damage and accidents, easier to install and uses less electricity, anybody who wants to suicide can easily jump on track and can touch the 3rd rail to go very fast to heaven / hell. Whereas this is not possible for overhead wire.


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## Ashis Mitra

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> FINALLY!! I have been saying that since time immemorial. Four track lines with express trains in the middle and local trains on the outside just like NYC's subway, no?
> 
> Shanghai's metro is much too cumbersome and large to run effectively. It wouldve been better had it been broken down ie: 500 km suburban rail, 350 km conventional subway, and 120 km light rail to fill in the gaps. Also comes out to 970 km but would make things far more efficient


Are they thinking suburban rail & light rail also metro? It is a wrong conception. Metro is actually conventional subways. Suburban rails has lower quality stocks and connects city with its suburbs, and light rail is a vehicle which is smaller than metro but larger than tram.


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## Ashis Mitra

The photo of thread No. 40 brightly shows that China is still the highest populated country of the world. We can’t even imagine such crowd in subway stations of Kolkata or Delhi.


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## staff

Ashis Mitra said:


> So I can call all lines from 1 to 9 as metro, not light rail, alright?


Yes, this is correct. All lines that go under the "Shanghai Metro" brand are metro.


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## staff

Some interesting info in this article. By 2012 there will be around 350 stations in the Shanghai Metro, with a route length of around 500km. Beyond 2012, more than 300km further routes are planned - ie. a total of over 800km planned.

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/article/2009/200903/20090307/article_393366.htm


> *Downtown Metro trips to get quicker*
> 
> By Dong Zhen | 2009-3-7 | NEWSPAPER EDITION
> 
> METRO trips in the downtown area will take no longer than 25 minutes by 2012, by which time the subway network will comprise 13 lines, an official said yesterday.
> 
> There will be a Metro station every 900 meters in urban Shanghai by 2012 and it's estimated that any downtown commuter will take only 45 minutes -- allowing 20 minutes to reach the station and 25 minutes for the Metro journey, Ying Minghong, Chairman of the Board of Shanghai Shentong Metro Co Ltd, said yesterday at the National People's Congress in Beijing.
> 
> By 2012, Metro services will have more interchange points and be able to get passengers to all the major downtown business and commercial hubs more efficiently.
> 
> The government has promised to extend Metro lines deep into the city's fringes. Seven budget-housing complexes being built on the city's fringes will have Metro stations close by.
> 
> Both the city's airports are expected to be directly connected to Metro Line 2 in time for next year's World Expo.
> 
> A tunneling machine digging the western extension of Line 2 reached the site of the Hongqiao Integrated Traffic Hub earlier this week. The hub will be used by buses, Metros and high-speed rail lines, and is connected to Hongqiao Airport.
> 
> Ying said construction is also going smoothly on the Line 2 extension to Pudong International Airport.
> 
> Ying said they have already started system testing on Line 7, the second phase of lines 8 and 9 and the first phase of Line 11.
> 
> Ying said these new lines will begin services before the end of this year as had been planned.
> 
> *The current eight Metro lines operating in Shanghai cover 234 kilometers and include 162 stations. By 2012 there will be nearly 350 stations, running a 500-kilometer route.*
> 
> However, this won't be the end of Shanghai's Metro extensions.
> 
> According to a proposal submitted by the local urban planner to the central government, *the city will build a further 300 kilometers of Metro lines beginning 2012.*


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## The Chemist

^65 of 97 stations? Something is wrong there...

I noticed that they've got new maps up at Shanghai Indoor Stadium Station (currently being renovated on the Line 1 side) that include ALL new lines/extensions that will be open up to the beginning of the Expo next year (Line 2 airport extensions, Line 7, second phase of lines 8 and 9, Line 10, Line 11, and the short Expo phase of Line 13). It looked really cool.


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## liwentao_tom

The Chemist said:


> ^65 of 97 stations? Something is wrong there...
> 
> I noticed that they've got new maps up at Shanghai Indoor Stadium Station (currently being renovated on the Line 1 side) that include ALL new lines/extensions that will be open up to the beginning of the Expo next year (Line 2 airport extensions, Line 7, second phase of lines 8 and 9, Line 10, Line 11, and the short Expo phase of Line 13). It looked really cool.


It's this...


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## staff

Looks great! This map is up in all the line 8 phase II stations too!


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## The Chemist

^That's the one! 

I asked this question over at SSP, but I'll ask it here because I think there's more Chinese forumers here: The notice on the map on the Line 2 extension at Guanglan Road （广兰路） says that 4 car trains will run between Guanglan Road and Pudong Airport - will there ONLY be 4 car trains on that section of Line 2, or will some of the 8 car trains make the entire run from Xujing to Pudong Airport?

Also, when all of that is open by next year, 2012 is the next big year for Metro expansion completion. Anyone know what all will be finished by 2012? I know Line 12, the second phase of Line 11, at least part of Line 5 into Fengxian District, and the rest of line 13 - am I missing anything?

Finally, a point on the map itself - it's pretty amazing to look at that and realize than only 15 years ago there was NO metro in operation in Shanghai. Without a doubt, the Shanghai Metro is the fastest growing Metro system in history.


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## drunkenmunkey888

The Chemist said:


> ^That's the one!
> 
> I asked this question over at SSP, but I'll ask it here because I think there's more Chinese forumers here: The notice on the map on the Line 2 extension at Guanglan Road （广兰路） says that 4 car trains will run between Guanglan Road and Pudong Airport - will there ONLY be 4 car trains on that section of Line 2, or will some of the 8 car trains make the entire run from Xujing to Pudong Airport?
> 
> Also, when all of that is open by next year, 2012 is the next big year for Metro expansion completion. Anyone know what all will be finished by 2012? I know Line 12, the second phase of Line 11, at least part of Line 5 into Fengxian District, and the rest of line 13 - am I missing anything?
> 
> Finally, a point on the map itself - it's pretty amazing to look at that and realize than only 15 years ago there was NO metro in operation in Shanghai. Without a doubt, the Shanghai Metro is the fastest growing Metro system in history.



And interesting enough, to add on to your point, its mindboggling that even today with 250 km, Shanghai already has one of the largest subway systems in the world! All it needs is a couple of suburban rail networks and then it can rival Tokyo or New York in infrastructure


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## staff

Well, a suburban system similar to those in NYC, London or Paris are not needed since Shanghai doesn't really have suburbs in the sense that Western cities do.


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## staff

What the hell is this article talking about? I don't see any direct link between Xujiahui Station and Lujiazui Station on the map above. Or do they count Shiji Dadao Station as a "lujiazui station"?

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/?id=406991&type=Metro


> *Line 9 to link key areas*
> 
> By Dong Zhen | 2009-7-10 | NEWSPAPER EDITION
> 
> A NEW subway extension will connect the popular commercial area of Xujiahui to Pudong and open before the end of this year, the city's Metro management said yesterday.
> 
> The opening of the second phase of Line 9 will mean Lujiazui, the city's financial district, will be only several stops from Xujiahui.
> 
> Shentong Metro Group said the 14-kilometer stretch of track will be completed on July 20 and that trains will begin testing in two months.
> 
> The extension includes stops in Xuhui, Luwan and Huangpu districts as well as Pudong New Area. It will also stop at Century Avenue Station in Pudong, the city's biggest subway transfer hub which already links Metro lines 2, 4 and 6.
> 
> The Line 9 extension will also share Xujiahui Station with Line 1 and Line 11. The first phase of Line 11 is also scheduled to open before the year end.
> 
> Metro officials said that when traffic launches, a passenger transfer corridor between the three lines at Xujiahui Station will still be under construction and ticketing systems and turnstiles will operate separately.


----------



## Codfish

The Chemist said:


> ^That's the one!
> 
> I asked this question over at SSP, but I'll ask it here because I think there's more Chinese forumers here: The notice on the map on the Line 2 extension at Guanglan Road （广兰路） says that 4 car trains will run between Guanglan Road and Pudong Airport - will there ONLY be 4 car trains on that section of Line 2, or will some of the 8 car trains make the entire run from Xujing to Pudong Airport?


On the map liwentao_tom posted, there’s a little box pointing to Guanglan Road station that reads:

4节、8节车辆换乘站
浦东机场站至广兰路站为4节编组车辆
广兰路站至徐泾东站为8节编组车辆
乘客需在本站换乘

Translated:

4-car/8-car interchange station
Trains from Pudong Airport Station to Guanglan Lu Station will be 4-carriage
Trains from Guanglan Lu Station to Xujing East Station will be 8-carriage
Passengers must change trains at this station


That should answer your question!


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## _Night City Dream_

> says that 4 car trains will run between Guanglan Road and *Pudong Airport*


I am not probable aware of, but what does the last station mean? I mean where is it sutuated, is it now possible to get to the airport using subway only?


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## napkcirtap

_Night City Dream_ said:


> I am not probable aware of, but what does the last station mean? I mean where is it sutuated, is it now possible to get to the airport using subway only?


not until 2010, the only public transportation going to the airport(both PVG and SHA is airport express buses and the maglev for PVG)
in the future, they plan to run 4car trains and 8car trains on 2 segments of the line, since demand in downtown is much higher than in the suburbs, so this way they can maintain certain higher frequencies without adding more to revenue cost.


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## _Night City Dream_

I see. I'm just asking because I used Maglev to Shanghai, and the bus from Hongqiao to Pudong, so it was surprising to here about the metro.

Will the line 2 going to Pudong airport be underground or above?


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## napkcirtap

_Night City Dream_ said:


> I see. I'm just asking because I used Maglev to Shanghai, and the bus from Hongqiao to Pudong, so it was surprising to here about the metro.
> 
> Will the line 2 going to Pudong airport be underground or above?


above ground east of chuansha

underground to hongqioa


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## _Night City Dream_

thanks, I've just meant the eastern extention to Pudong airport. If so, and it will run above ground, then how far will it be from the Maglev line itself? Will they be seen together?


----------



## ode of bund

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> And interesting enough, to add on to your point, its mindboggling that even today with 250 km, Shanghai already has one of the largest subway systems in the world! All it needs is a couple of suburban rail networks and then it can rival Tokyo or New York in infrastructure


Well, as the largest city in China and one of the top 10 mega-metropolis in the world, Shanghai ought to have an extensive rapid transit network. Shanghai actually is still paying off the debt of lacking civil infrastructure investment from the days of planned economy. Shanghai is undoubtedly the most economically advanced region in China, it is the largest manufacturing center as well as the financial center of the country. Shanghai has always been and will continue to be the eldest brother of the family who has to look after all other siblings and contribute most of the income to the family. Traditionally the wealth of Shanghai has been heavily expropriated by the central planning committee in Beijing which left very little for Shanghai's own needs. It was not until 1990 when Shanghai was given more financial freedom to accomplish what it had accomplished today. Poor Shanghai.


----------



## The Chemist

Codfish said:


> On the map liwentao_tom posted, there’s a little box pointing to Guanglan Road station that reads:
> 
> 4节、8节车辆换乘站
> 浦东机场站至广兰路站为4节编组车辆
> 广兰路站至徐泾东站为8节编组车辆
> 乘客需在本站换乘
> 
> Translated:
> 
> 4-car/8-car interchange station
> Trains from Pudong Airport Station to Guanglan Lu Station will be 4-carriage
> Trains from Guanglan Lu Station to Xujing East Station will be 8-carriage
> Passengers must change trains at this station
> 
> 
> That should answer your question!


Yeah, I could read that. It just wasn't entirely clear to me whether or not there would be some 8 car trains making the entire line 2 run. 

Which brings up another question - if you MUST change to a 4 car train at Guanglan Road to continue on to Pudong Airport, why isn't the stretch from Guanglan Road to Pudong Airport considered a completely separate line, in the same way that Line 5 is basically a continuation of Line 1 south of Xinzhuang, just using smaller trains? Or is the long term plan to eventually have 8 car trains making the entire run from Pudong Airport to Xujing?


----------



## napkcirtap

The Chemist said:


> Yeah, I could read that. It just wasn't entirely clear to me whether or not there would be some 8 car trains making the entire line 2 run.
> 
> Which brings up another question - if you MUST change to a 4 car train at Guanglan Road to continue on to Pudong Airport, why isn't the stretch from Guanglan Road to Pudong Airport considered a completely separate line, in the same way that Line 5 is basically a continuation of Line 1 south of Xinzhuang, just using smaller trains? Or is the long term plan to eventually have 8 car trains making the entire run from Pudong Airport to Xujing?


long term plan for some trains to run entire length, during midday and evenings. and frequency on exsiting line will decrease when all other lines are built. then u will have trains running from pvg to sha


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## staff

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/?id=408141


> *Shanghai transport cards work in other cities*
> 
> By Tom Qian | 2009-7-21 | ONLINE EDITION
> 
> RESIDENTS in Shanghai can now use their transport cards in Wuxi, Kunshan and Changshu in neighboring Jiangsu Province and Fuyang in Anhui Province.
> 
> The card can also be used on buses in Suzhou and some taxis in Hangzhou. Hangzhou's transport card can be used on Bus No. 109 in Shanghai, according to Shanghai Morning Post report today.
> 
> The Shanghai transport authority is issuing a new transport card that travelers will be able to use in Yangtze Delta cities, each with a CPU card instead of a SIM card, according to an earlier Shanghai Daily report.
> 
> The authority is testing the new system and plans to have it working by the end of the year.


----------



## tonyhua

The Chemist said:


> But Metro Line 2 WILL connect the two airports as of next year, and will be much cheaper to ride than any future Maglev connection. I think the municipality should cut its losses and not waste any more money on this overly expensive piece of technology.


No, you should notice the time spent. Most business people are not like waste time on travel. Line 2 will need 1 hours 30 minutes in 2 airports, while malgev only need 25 minutes. And the main function of Line 2 is not travel people between 2 airports, this task can be done by the "Airport No.1 Line" Shuttle Bus, it has non-stop, cost 30yuan and about 45 minutes (1 hour if in rush hours). Line 2 is used to travel people from airport to downtown or from downtown to airport. 

And Line 2 will be extreme crowded in the peak hours, as it connects many business zone, such as Lujiazui ,Zhangjiang, so no one like in a crowded cab with luggage....

Above, all Line 2 is a low-end transportway, while malgev is a middle-high end
transportway.

Also, malgev is not expensive, it's build cost is similar as other metro network in Shanghai , about 3 billion/km. And it's passenger is simlar as the Airport Line of Beijing, while the desination of Beijing Airport Line is much near downtown.

Current price of malgev is a bit expensive as it is considred as "tourist", not "transport", I think if it come to Hongqiao, the price will not higher than 80 yuan.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

tonyhua said:


> No, you should notice the time spent. Most business people are not like waste time on travel. Line 2 will need 1 hours 30 minutes in 2 airports, while malgev only need 25 minutes. And the main function of Line 2 is not travel people between 2 airports, this task can be done by the "Airport No.1 Line" Shuttle Bus, it has non-stop, cost 30yuan and about 45 minutes (1 hour if in rush hours). Line 2 is used to travel people from airport to downtown or from downtown to airport.
> 
> And Line 2 will be extreme crowded in the peak hours, as it connects many business zone, such as Lujiazui ,Zhangjiang, so no one like in a crowded cab with luggage....
> 
> Above, all Line 2 is a low-end transportway, while malgev is a middle-high end
> transportway.


Precisely. The people previously complained about the lack of high-speed transport.

I think that trains with sufficient number of doors routinely manage to plan for 30 second dwell time. The nonstop trip Longyang Road to Pudong, about 35 km, is done in 7 min 30 second. So, how long is the extension from Longyang Road to Hongqiao, how many stops, and how long would the trip take?

If a metro is planned so as to have interchanges with maglev in the few maaglev station, perhaps it could be much faster to, say, take metro 5 km to Longyang Road, travel 7/12 min to Pudong station 35 km away and then travel back 5 km by the same metro line, rather than travel 25 km and as many stops straight by metro...


----------



## napkcirtap

chornedsnorkack said:


> Precisely. The people previously complained about the lack of high-speed transport.
> 
> I think that trains with sufficient number of doors routinely manage to plan for 30 second dwell time. The nonstop trip Longyang Road to Pudong, about 35 km, is done in 7 min 30 second. So, how long is the extension from Longyang Road to Hongqiao, how many stops, and how long would the trip take?
> 
> If a metro is planned so as to have interchanges with maglev in the few maaglev station, perhaps it could be much faster to, say, take metro 5 km to Longyang Road, travel 7/12 min to Pudong station 35 km away and then travel back 5 km by the same metro line, rather than travel 25 km and as many stops straight by metro...


shanghai should have had built express tracks for this particular line. the maglev should be more intergrated into the rapid transit system as well. the 2 trains don't serve as an airport shuttle. people transfering from one airport to another usually don't rely on subways. 
example: u usually don't go from ohare to midway on the blue and orange lines. nor do you travel from newark to jfk on path to subway to airtrains either.


----------



## Severiano

I don't have the software for it, and i don't use pin yin to type. Sorry


----------



## staff

Fair enough.


----------



## staff

Should this thread perhaps be renamed to "Shanghai Public Transportation Thread"?


http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/article/2009/200908/20090819/article_411106.htm


> *After 30 years, trams ready to roll*
> 
> By Liang Yiwen | 2009-8-19 | NEWSPAPER EDITION
> 
> TRAMS in Pudong's Zhangjiang High-tech Park are due to begin trial passenger runs ahead of National Day on October 1, officials said yesterday.
> 
> Public trams have not been in Shanghai for 30 years.
> 
> A ticket on the air-conditioned trams will cost 2 yuan (29 US cents), the same as for most commuter buses.
> 
> Passengers will also enjoy the discounts for transferring between trams and other means of public transport.
> 
> The Shanghai Public Transportation Card can be used on the service once the line is open for business, officials said.
> 
> The 10-kilometer route will link Zhangjiang High-tech Park Metro Station on Line 2 to Jinqiu Road in Zhangjiang Semiconductor Industry Park.
> 
> There are 15 stops, the distance between each station averages 600 meters and trams will arrive at intervals of between six and eight minutes.
> 
> The budget for the project is about 600 million yuan.


----------



## Severiano

I like this tram idea, I have never been out to ZJGK but the trams look nice in pictures. They should have this kind of thing more in the less dense developments in the near suburbs.


----------



## NCT

A lot people regard the tram scheme as being a bit gimmicky. The Lohr vehicles are more guided trolleybuses than true trams, and are not at all good value for money. The authorities are slowly killing off the conventional trolleybus network for 'visual' pollution, yet 'tram' and 'foreign product/technology' suddenly makes this 'problem' disappear.

Considering this route just goes around different parts of the science park and does not serve many high density housing areas, I doubt this route will be well patronised throughout the day (judging by similar bus routes in operation now). The eastern extension of Metro Line 2 is close to opening, so there will be even less demand for the tram route in the future.


----------



## staff

^^
It's basically a test line. I guess they will evaluate it and decide whether to go ahead and build more such lines or try another technology within a few years.


----------



## Severiano

I think thats because the overhead power lines look bad. East of Tibet road there are a little too many overhead power lines, I can see why the gvt wants to cut down on that, its not as good looking. Especially with the Expo coming up, Shanghai is looking extremely nice, even my house (built in 1928) is getting a paint job now.


----------



## NCT

Severiano said:


> I think thats because the overhead power lines look bad. East of Tibet road there are a little too many overhead power lines, I can see why the gvt wants to cut down on that, its not as good looking. Especially with the Expo coming up, Shanghai is looking extremely nice, even my house (built in 1928) is getting a paint job now.


The thing is it is *extremely* unfair to point the finger of blame at trolleybus wires. In actual fact they are a good addition to the skyline (if managed properly, and poles integrated with lamp-posts etc). Communication lines are by far the worst culprits.

Even if trolleybus wires are not agreeable to some, to me it's a very small price to pay for some peace and quiet and absence of exhaust fumes.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

Emphatically agreed. The Translohr vehicles have the "bad-looking" overhead wires just as well, cannot move around obstacles because of guide rails and have rail grooves that trap bicycles - yet they do not have the compatibility of system of normal trams with two steel rails, nor the low rolling friction.


----------



## leo_sh

NCT said:


> Try getting into London from the home counties on any of the minor roads - trust me you'll lose the will to live!
> 
> The only exceptions I can think of are Epping, Potter's Bar, Radlett (and perhaps St. Albans), Rickmansworth, Woking and Biggin hill that can get into London semi-easily on a red or yellow road. All of them bar Biggin Hill have convenient and frequent rail services into London.
> 
> Roads are *classified* for a reason - different roads serve different purposes. Local roads are called local roads because they are local roads! They carry traffic of an entirely different nature so it is not fair to include them in the equation. Go on Google maps and see exactly how many major arteries there actually are - not that many you'll find!
> 
> The whole point about this debate is whether commuter rail is necessary and whether London's system is a good example. One 8-car train carries about 500 people (without crush-loading), and that's about 400 cars. so *one* railway line is as significant as *quite a few* roads.


I just want to point out that just compare rail and trunk roads is unfair. 

You are changing the point of debate. Commuter rail is a reality both in London and SH. There is no point to debate if they are necessary to be built. The point is how!


----------



## leo_sh

Translohr is not trolleybus. It is a rail car on rubber tyre. Trolleybus has a automobile frame. The capacities and operation of the two are completely different.


----------



## NCT

leo_sh said:


> I just want to point out that just compare rail and trunk roads is unfair.


Alas ... you still seem unable to grasp the idea that different roads cater for different purposes. Trunk roads have rail have essentially the same *target market*, therefore it IS fair to make such comparisons. But anyhow...



> You are changing the point of debate. Commuter rail is a reality both in London and SH. There is no point to debate if they are necessary to be built.


I'm glad we are settle on that.



> The point is how!


Quite. We must look towards *universal* coverage, and not just stop at major towns of Jiading, Songjiang, Huinan and the like, but integrate smaller towns such as Fengcheng, Zhujing, Chongu, and towns outside the boundary, like Jiashan, Taicang, Liuhe.

It is right for towns to preserve a degree of independence, or even share some city-level activities, that's why it's crucial that these towns are *connected* (otherwise they are not indepent, but isolated, subtle but important difference), and more importantly, that the stations are in the town centre, so it can attract reverse flow.

Shanghai's influence WILL extend beyond the administrative boundary, that's why the importance of admistrative boundaries will have to decrease. It must be easy for Metro lines to extend outside of the boundary and for national rail to cater for commuters.


----------



## Severiano

Hey everyone! I just took some pictures from Line 8. It seems now that in Line 8 they have posted the new subway map. I think this is how the subway will look from 2010 to 2012. All of the new lines and stations will be open before the Expo, and some of them will be open before the end of 2009.

New Map:










New Map closeup of the city centre:










What do you think of the huge station signs in Line 8? I really like them!


----------



## peacedot

the new map looks so nice.


----------



## The Chemist

I love the big character names at Line 8 stations - I wish the other lines had them too - it makes station identification a snap.  

The new map is awesome. I can spend lots of time just staring at it. One question I had, looking at it now, though, is why is there no interchange between line 7 and 10. It looks from the map like they could have had a 3 line interchange between 1, 7, and 10 at Changshu Road, but instead they went with line 7 interchanging with line 1 at Changshu and line 10 interchanging with line 1 at Shanxi. Anybody know why they did this?


----------



## Severiano

There is probably some financial reasons behind the decision. The Changshu/Huaihai intersection is pretty narrow, plus there is very little foot traffic in that area. It's a mistake but it only makes the plane a little less AWESOME. The distance according to Google Earth, from Shanxi south road and Shanghai Library is about 1 mile or 1.65km. Which is about the same as the distance from Renmin Guangchang and Huang pi South Road. Its pretty far if you are in a hurry, but not that far if you are a tourist walking through the French area. Just looking at this map, its hard to see a place in the central urban core that will be far from a subway station. Plus by 2012, line 11 and 13 will be further extended into the city centre.


----------



## natarajan1986

wow it covers every sqkm of the city


----------



## leo_sh

The Chemist said:


> I love the big character names at Line 8 stations - I wish the other lines had them too - it makes station identification a snap.
> 
> The new map is awesome. I can spend lots of time just staring at it. One question I had, looking at it now, though, is why is there no interchange between line 7 and 10. It looks from the map like they could have had a 3 line interchange between 1, 7, and 10 at Changshu Road, but instead they went with line 7 interchanging with line 1 at Changshu and line 10 interchanging with line 1 at Shanxi. Anybody know why they did this?


There was orginally a plan for three-line transfer. As the area is a historical villa quarter and a three-line transfer will require a further expansion of the station and demolition of the surrounding villas, so the plan was scratched.

Anyway, this is an expensive villa quarter and the demand for public transport is not huge.


----------



## Severiano

^^ Well in that case I can't blame them. The historical villas are more important than having a three line transfer. It is worth the inconvenience.


----------



## The Chemist

leo_sh said:


> There was orginally a plan for three-line transfer. As the area is a historical villa quarter and a three-line transfer will require a further expansion of the station and demolition of the surrounding villas, so the plan was scratched.
> 
> Anyway, this is an expensive villa quarter and the demand for public transport is not huge.


Ah, that sounds logical. Thanks for that.


----------



## deasine

Looks cool. Any photos of the interior?


----------



## ILAB

UD2 said:


> Well.. Here's the question. Why is that?
> 
> One would think a city the size of Shanghai would be using all articulated busses.
> Or at least have a mixture of busses closer to that of Beijing.


U R right!Beijing`s buses now are almost articulated buses.It belongs to 
different running system.


----------



## ILAB

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> Articulated buses used to be very ubiquitous in Shanghai during the 80's and 90's. I looked for some pictures but could not find any. They were these really cheap old buses with colored strips along its body. They were gradually phased out in the late 90's and early 2000's.


I will show U.
How can i use the upload pics function here?Or there are some limitations for 
new guy?
I should declare following two nice pics were not taken by me,Thanx to these original authors!
appearance,the bus type is SK661F2,it was my favorite!








interior looking like this,actually,this bus was older than 661F2.but their interior 
space were similar,only some details would be different.


----------



## ILAB

deasine said:


> Looks cool. Any photos of the interior?


Yea,I got it.I will appreciate it if U can tell me how to use the function of 
upload pics or U can explain to me why I can not use this function,may be 
its limitation for new guy?


----------



## **RS**

Nice buses! Shanghai grows rapidly,I think it will be not ten,but one thousand and ten articulated buses in a few years :cheers:


----------



## ILAB

**RS** said:


> Nice buses! Shanghai grows rapidly,I think it will be not ten,but one thousand and ten articulated buses in a few years :cheers:


God bless it,I hope so too


----------



## UD2

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> Articulated buses used to be very ubiquitous in Shanghai during the 80's and 90's. I looked for some pictures but could not find any. They were these really cheap old buses with colored strips along its body. They were gradually phased out in the late 90's and early 2000's.


Yes but that still leaves my question.

Would it not be more efficient for the system if Shanghai used articulated busses instead of the ones they currently have?

What changed from the 90s to now? If anything, with more population, one would expect the busses to get bigger.

Or could this be another one of those, "lets do this because it's what the foreigners (Americans) do".


----------



## bluemeansgo

Unless they converted from articulated buses to Rail. Perhaps on the existing bus routes, a regular bus would suffice?

artics cost more to run and have less flexibility along narrow streets.

Dunno if this was the case, just a thought.


----------



## The Chemist

There are many, many routes in Shanghai that could use the extra capacity of an articulated bus, given how crowded the busses always appear. I've always been surprised that there are so few articulateds in Shanghai.


----------



## deasine

ILAB said:


> Yea,I got it.I will appreciate it if U can tell me how to use the function of
> upload pics or U can explain to me why I can not use this function,may be
> its limitation for new guy?


No one can upload photos onto the SSC forum, or else we would need a lot of space for our servers. You must do it through a third party uploader, like Flickr, Picasa (there's a special way getting it to work on Picasa), Imageshack, etc.

By the way, love the LED maps found on the buses. You see those on metros all the time, not so much on buses.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

UD2 said:


> Yes but that still leaves my question.
> 
> Would it not be more efficient for the system if Shanghai used articulated busses instead of the ones they currently have?
> 
> What changed from the 90s to now? If anything, with more population, one would expect the busses to get bigger.
> 
> Or could this be another one of those, "lets do this because it's what the foreigners (Americans) do".


What has changed? Well for one thing these old articulated buses were introduced back when there was no subway system. Even during the last days of these old buses, only line 1 was built. Now, with more people using the subway as their primary mode of transportation, buses have taken a secondary, usually feeder role. Not many people primarily use buses anymore, thereby reducing the demand for articulated buses


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

Amazing how much changes in fifteen years!


----------



## ILAB

UD2 said:


> Yes but that still leaves my question.
> 
> Would it not be more efficient for the system if Shanghai used articulated busses instead of the ones they currently have?
> 
> What changed from the 90s to now? If anything, with more population, one would expect the busses to get bigger.
> 
> Or could this be another one of those, "lets do this because it's what the foreigners (Americans) do".


I think to answer this question may involve many factors.
The most defining factor is the bus running pattern.
What`s the difference between now and the past?It was a long story.
To be more patient,I will tell you the detail.
In 1996,Shanghai bus system and mechanism had been reformed enormously.
This reform was called the biggest change in the last century,so-called 
96 Reform.Before 96 Reform, all buses as well as routes were operated by 
one big company, below this company,may be a lot of smaller companies 
affiliated to this big company,assuming responsibility for this big company. 
At that time,Shanghai`s running buses were almost the articulated buses, 
these buses were not run through self-service ticketing way. Usually, one 
bus was set two ticket sellers. Their work were to sell the tickets for the 
passengers. With the advent of 96 Reform, regarding market-centric 
principle,reduce cost and bolster the effeciency. As a part of labor 
cost,these bus ticket sellers were dismissed. Also these shabby old type, 
front engine-driven articulated buses were gradually phased out. During 
the transition, there were a few these old articulated buses survived for one or two years, 
they were acted as quasi-self-service ticketing buses with a monitor (somethings like ticket seller) 
in the second carriage. Passengers who get on the bus from the front door, the driver can 
monitor them, whereas those from the back door, the monitor can watch them. From 
this, it completed the whole ticket monitoring system without loophole. But all these entailed more 
spend than single buses do. So shanghai chose to use the single buses.
:cheers:
Moreover,in the past,as lacking of metro system, and under the uniform bus 
institution, they had no alternative but to use the articulated buses to solve 
the tough problem of sharing public transport.


----------



## ILAB

bluemeansgo said:


> Unless they converted from articulated buses to Rail. Perhaps on the existing bus routes, a regular bus would suffice?
> 
> artics cost more to run and have less flexibility along narrow streets.
> 
> Dunno if this was the case, just a thought.


I know,so a lot of British people go on the street holding 
slogans in their hands:the ban on articulated bus. But the authority turned a blind 
eye to these demonstrations and still to use the articulated buses.
I know some of the British roads are pretty narrow, moreover, the red 
double-bus had been already become a metaphor to the British people.


----------



## ILAB

The Chemist said:


> There are many, many routes in Shanghai that could use the extra capacity of an articulated bus, given how crowded the busses always appear. I've always been surprised that there are so few articulateds in Shanghai.


I think the authority should realize one thing nothing can be more significant 
than benefiting people.Keep the balance seriously between money and 
responsibility.


----------



## ILAB

deasine said:


> No one can upload photos onto the SSC forum, or else we would need a lot of space for our servers. You must do it through a third party uploader, like Flickr, Picasa (there's a special way getting it to work on Picasa), Imageshack, etc.
> 
> By the way, love the LED maps found on the buses. You see those on metros all the time, not so much on buses.


Thanx. 

Actually, these LED maps did not entail much more technological skills, it`s pretty simple.:lol: But gain a lot of profits.


----------



## ILAB

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> What has changed? Well for one thing these old articulated buses were introduced back when there was no subway system. Even during the last days of these old buses, only line 1 was built. Now, with more people using the subway as their primary mode of transportation, buses have taken a secondary, usually feeder role. Not many people primarily use buses anymore, thereby reducing the demand for articulated buses


It is right to some extent.I found you are pretty familiar with Shanghai`s culture.Have u ever been to Shanghai?


----------



## ILAB

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> Amazing how much changes in fifteen years!



It was just a miniature of the development of the country.


----------



## ILAB

I will update some pics of the bus`s daily running.

Geting on the articulated bus with low floor design will be much easier.



























Joint organ! Pretty flexible and beautiful! 









You can see the articulated bus driver was wiping among the no service conditions intervals. 
Pretty indutrious! We must carry this kind of spirit forward.
:cheers:


----------



## Eurotram

^^I tried to hold it and not to ask,but... I must ask this question: there was told,that the motor of this bus in an original MAN's product;due to this I suppose that the whole construction is also... legal (I mean,that shown above bus is a MADE IN CHINA,LICENSED NEOPLAN CENTROLINER)?


----------



## The Chemist

I think Line 9 phase 2 is almost ready to open as well, because I was at Century Avenue yesterday and I could see that the Line 9 ticketing area was complete. I'd imagine it's going to open in a matter of weeks as well.


----------



## P05

What about line 11? I read that they expected to open the line before the year end.


----------



## Severiano

Line 11 will definately open before the Expo, but I am not sure about it opening before the years end. Line 7 still hasn't opened yet and it looks like it will take a few more days. The floors in the station are still dirty, and the lighting hasn't been completed in the Line 1 area of Changshu Road.


----------



## staff

http://shanghaiist.com/2009/12/02/m...php?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


> *Metro line 7 to open Saturday*
> 
> By Cary Hooper in News on December 2, 2009 12:30 PM
> 
> Oh boy, yet another new subway line is opening! Line seven, which will run north-south with transfer stops at Jing'an Temple and Changshu Road stations, is going to start it's first trial runs beginning at 9AM on Saturday. After last month's delayed opening, we've been itching to give this one a go.
> 
> We're mostly psyched for the new trains, which look like a blast out of 1990's New York. Look at that checkerboard linoleum flooring! Lime green and bright orange seats? They're even better than the last ones we saw!. This train looks good enough to be shuttling you to the Ringling Brother's circus, but it should do just fine for the Expo.


----------



## staff




----------



## giallo

Awesome looking trains. I'll be taking it to work opening day. It stops a mere two blocks from the office.

I'm stoked!


----------



## staff

^^
Make sure to bring el camera!


----------



## The Chemist

According to Shanghai Daily, Line 7 will only be operating from 9-4 daily for a couple of months while they continue testing. I guess they don't want the bugs that plagued Line 8 when it opened a couple of years ago. 

And for some strange reason, the new maps posted in Line 4 trains don't show the interchange with Line 7 at Dong'an Road.


----------



## giallo

staff said:


> ^^
> Make sure to bring el camera!


You know it. I promise I'll post 'em.


----------



## oliver999

line 7 looks really clean and morden on TV.


----------



## 2009shanghai

Line 7 is awesome!!!! I took it last Sunday to Jing'an Temple. Great!!!


----------



## giallo

Speaking of Jing An Temple station, here's a picture I took of it opening day


----------



## aniuska

How long is Shanghai Metro now?
290 km. or more?


----------



## liwentao_tom

aniuska said:


> How long is Shanghai Metro now?
> 290 km. or more?


284.6 Km , 196 stations according to Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Metro


----------



## napkcirtap

lines 9(Phase II) and 11 will operate starting the end of december, making the length of lines surpassing the 350 km mark


----------



## ode of bund

*Winter Solstice Day Chaos in Shanghai*

Yesterday, (December 22nd) Shanghai Metro Line 1 was hit by two separate incidents which caused massive chaos. First at 5:50am, a power failure incident took place between South Shaan'xi Road Station and People's Square stations, trains have to be short turned between Xinzhuang (莘庄) station and Xujiahui (徐家汇) station at south, and between Shanghai Rail-way Station and Fujin Road (富锦路) station at north. Bashi Group deployed more than 80 buses to shuttle passengers between Rail-way Station and Xujiahui. Then by 7:00, train 150 when approaching Shanghai Rail-way Station, ran a stop signal when switching from southbound track to northbound track, causing a lateral collision with train 117. Although both trains were running at low speed and no injury was sustained, from a photo on the headline of Shanghai Evening Post, the driver's cabin area of train 150 sustained heavy damage. Metro Line 1 is the most heavily utilized subway system in Shanghai, the accidents caused massive chaos with millions of commuters late for work, buses and taxi cabs were cramped with metro passengers scrambling for other alternatives. hno:


----------



## yaohua2000




----------



## deasine

The damage is quite severe. Why in the world did the driver "run a stop signal?" Absolutely unacceptable.


----------



## staff

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/article/2009/200912/20091228/article_424024.htm


> *Two more Metro routes to start work*
> 
> By Zha Minjie | 2009-12-28 | NEWSPAPER EDITION
> 
> *TWO new subways will open to passengers on Thursday, the Metro operator said yesterday.*
> 
> Shanghai Shentong Group announced the debut of Line 11 and the second phase of Line 9, at the end of a troubled week for Line 1, the city's oldest, which suffered a series of delays including the longest in its history after two trains collided last Tuesday.
> 
> "It's always good to learn of the opening of new lines despite all the troubles with subways," said a passenger, Chen Xi.
> 
> Both new lines will operate on a pilot basis, Shentong said, and will begin with a short daily schedule, 9am to 4pm. Within three months, the hours will be extended to 5:30am to 11pm.
> 
> The Metro authority said if the lines were to run more hours at the start, it would deny time for testing, "increasing the risk of breakdowns" - the last thing the operator wants to see.
> 
> The 6am to 9:50pm operation on the first phase of Line 9, Songjiang to Xuhui District, will not be affected.
> 
> The time between trains on Line 9 will be six minutes with a nine and a half minute interval on Line 11.
> 
> The second phase of Line 9, connecting with its first phase at Yishan Road Station, runs through city's busy business area, Xujiahui, and ends at Pudong's Century Avenue Station which it will link with three other lines - 2, 4 and 6.
> 
> Line 11 will be a 50-minute journey from suburban Jiading District to downtown Changning District's Jiangsu Road Station.
> 
> Line 11 will have 12 six-carriage trains which can travel at up to 100 kilometers per hour, the fastest subway in China. Line 9 will have 26 trains with the opening of its second phase.
> 
> *The Metro authority said passengers will be able to transfer between Line 1 and Line 9 at Xujiahui Station and by next March they will be able to walk underground between the lines after a garage is converted into a station.
> 
> The station will have three lines when the second phase of Line 11 goes through by 2012.
> *
> *Visitors to the 2010 World Expo can go to the Expo site at Line 9's Madang Road Station where ticket and security check points will be set.*
> 
> From there they can take Line 13 to enter the site both in Puxi and Pudong.
> 
> Line 11, 33 kilometers long, will have 16 stations opening on Thursday, with four others on a branch line to open before the Expo, said the operator.
> *
> The Metro network will have 330 kilometers of track by the end of this month and 221 stations on its current 10 lines.*
> 
> Read more: http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/article/2009/200912/20091228/article_424024.htm#ixzz0ax3u2JuD


----------



## Severiano

^^ Great news, when I saw the sign that said Xujiahui was a virtual transfer station like Hongkou football stadium, I almost lost it. I am glad that that will only be temporary, that would have been a mess to have a virtual transfer at one of the busiest traffic hubs.


----------



## The Chemist

Severiano said:


> ^^ Great news, when I saw the sign that said Xujiahui was a virtual transfer station like Hongkou football stadium, I almost lost it. I am glad that that will only be temporary, that would have been a mess to have a virtual transfer at one of the busiest traffic hubs.


Based on the fact that it's only a temporary sticker on the map, it appears that it won't last long. Nor, it seems, will the virtual interchanges at Yishan Road (3/9 with 4), Shanghai Railway Station (3/4 with 1), and Hongkou Football Stadium (3 with 8), as they are all using temporary stickers on the new maps that are now showing up on the trains.


----------



## Severiano

Line 9 opened today!!!! I rode from Xujiahui to Century Avenue. The Xujiahui is very nice although the tunnel for the transfer is not finished. Zhaojiabang road is very nice and it is very convenient to transfer to line 7, Madang road is wierd as there is only one escalator to transfer to line 13, Lujiaban road is also designed nicely with wide corridors and short distances between platforms. Century Ave, is also nice but very packed now that there are 4 lines going through it. Overall good job Shanghai! Ill give it a B+


----------



## SoloSides

liwentao_tom said:


> The Shanghai metro is one of the youngest in the world and among the most rapidly expanding. After the first line opened only in 1995 as a north-south axis from the Central Station to the southern suburbs, by the end of 2007 the network had reached a total length of 227 km, with 161 stations and 8 lines!


If only they could build other metros that fast


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## Alargule

^^ And just 2 years after that, those stats are already way outdated. In the mean time, the network has grown another 100 kms and boasts 10 lines.

Mind boggling.


----------



## liwentao_tom

SoloSides said:


> If only they could build other metros that fast


Edited:
by the end of 2009 the network had reached a total length of 330 km, with 221 stations and 10 lines! (Not including the Maglev line...):lol:

Average daily ridership : 3.58 million (2009) (Highest: 5.27 million 2009.12.31):nuts:
It's amazing that the ridership increases so fast!


----------



## liwentao_tom

The BIG map:lol:
http://www.shmetro.com/zbdt/overall.jpg

New ridership record set on Dec. 31 ,2009.... 5.27 million !!
ridership of every line:
1: 1.40 million 
2: 1.23 million
3: 0.54 million
4: 0.73 million
5: 0.15 million
6: 0.22 million
7: 0.17 million
8: 0.53 million
9: 0.25 million
11: 0.036 million


And the latest peak hour frequencies 

line 1: 2'45" (main line) 5'30" ( northern extension)
line 2: 3'09"
line 3: 5' (main line) 16'30"( northern extension)
line 4: 5'
line 5: 4'30"
line 6: 6'/12' 
line 7: 6'
line 8: 4'/12' (since Jan 10 ,2010)
line 9: 6' 
line 11: 9'30"


----------



## ddes

Amazing... I'm not sure if it's abit much but could you guys post many more pictures of the Shanghai Metro?


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## Alargule

Liwentao Tom: when will lines 10 and 13 open?


----------



## P05

liwentao_tom said:


> Edited:
> by the end of 2009 the network had reached a total length of 330 km, with 221 stations and 10 lines! (Not including the Maglev line...):lol:
> 
> Average daily ridership : 3.58 million (2009) (Highest: 5.27 million 2009.12.31):nuts:
> It's amazing that the ridership increases so fast!


Average daily ridership was 3.06 million a year ago, so it has risen almost 20% in just one year. :nuts:


----------



## loveciye

*Some pictures of line 11*


----------



## kix111

Do these record count the elder people riding the subway everyday? From what i know, they do not go through the electrical gates, but someone manually let them in from somewhere else.


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## The Chemist

^It should. They've got gates at every station (they are marked in purple so they're pretty obvious) that are able to read the 老人卡 (old person's card) so they don't need to be manually let in anymore.


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## ddes

One of the 'regrets' I have for the Shanghai Metro is that they didn't opt for high capacity 3.2m wide rolling stock on lines 1 and 2.


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## ode of bund

*SHANGHAI | Translohr*

The construction of Shanghai Translohr tram way was completed in early 2009. The system then went on a seemingly endless road test for more than half a year, nobody knew exactly when it would start revenue operation. I was in Shanghai for a month from December 2009 to January 2010, I didn't give any hope that I could still ride the Translohr tram during my stay in Shanghai, I would be contended to take photos of empty cars conducting road tests.































































































































Next photo is the location where I took the above photos. The Translohr tram way is constructed in the township of Zhangjiang which is in the heartland area of Pudong. Nowadays Zhangjiang is readily accessible from downtown Shanghai since it is linked by Metro Line 2. 

Longitudinal streets in Zhangjiang are named after foreingn scientists such as Charles Darwin, Marie Currie, Issac Newton, in this case Daerwen (Charles Darwin) Road; and latitudinal streets are named after ancient Chinese scientists, in this case Huatuo, a herblist/accupuncturist/surgeon/anethesiologist.










But on the morming of December 30th, 2009, while listening to radio news on AM channel 990, I suddenly heard the breaking news that Translohr tram was to start revenue service on the following morning. Since AM 990 was the municipal government radio station, this was the official announcement of the exact date of service operation of the long anticipated tram line, and I was absolutely thrilled by the news.

It was not until Friday, January 8th, the day before my daparture from Shanghai back to Edmonton, when I finally had a chance to ride the cutting edge tram. The ridership was OK given the service was only inaugurated one week ago. The speed limit was 40km/hr, but it was a very smooth ride, smoother than the shoddy Sunwin trolley-bus. To open the door, one would have to press the green door button to activate the door, and each tram was crewed by one conductor whose responsibitlity was to supervisor the fare payment, and a driver. I gradually realized that in a place as vastly open as Shanghai, Zhangjiang High Tech was the place best suited for the Translohr. Here it was not far from downtown Shanghai and linked by an existing subway line, traffic was relatively light to cause conflict with the tram way, and with the establishment of industrial park, provided a steady flow of ridership. After the ride, I gave a sincere well wish to this rubber tire tram system for her eventual success and very bright future.


----------



## ode of bund

I have attached a set of photos of Subway Line 5 from my recent trip to Shanghai. The Minhang Development Zone Station is the terminal station of the line. Since the entire Line 5 is elevated except at the beginning of the line (Xinzhuang 莘庄), I choose to photograph Minhang station to show the abrupt ending of the via-duct that supports this urban rail system. The via-duct extended 150 meters beyond the station to allow the installation of a pair of scissor crossing tracks for trains to switch track and head back to the city. The station is located at the intersection of Dongchuan Road(东川路)/Tianxing Road(天星路), which is in a rather desolated area where vegetable field is gradually being converted to industrial use land.










































































The next set was taken from an intermediate station, the Dongchuan Road (东川路) Station which is located at the intersection of Humin Road (沪闵路) and Dongchuan Road (东川路). This station is located just north of a curvature segment, therefore it exposes an approaching train negotiating the curvature from far to near.










































Another station at Zhuanqiao (颛桥), photographed from a pedestrian overpass.










































The Line 5 garage.


----------



## JustinB

Nice pictures. The running way should have been built all concrete. The asphalt is going to wear out really quick.


----------



## JoKo65

Translohr is more a guided bus than a tram.


----------



## Coccodrillo

It isn't nor a guided bus nor a tram.


----------



## JoKo65

According to law it seems to be a bus – it has a numberplate.

P. S.: German wikipedia calls it a "guided trolley bus".


----------



## JustinB

I haven't anything good about this systems. There have been numerous derailments in systems installed in Italy.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

JustinB said:


> Nice pictures. The running way should have been built all concrete. The asphalt is going to wear out really quick.


Exactly. It's much heavier than a bus and the wheels are always on the same line. Besides, you have to stick with only one company and that's not even guaranteed that the company exists in, let's say, 20 years. With trams there is no fear of having trouble finding new vehicles. Has anyone got information about the cost of building translohr line vs. tram line?


----------



## thib8500

JoKo65 said:


> According to law it seems to be a bus – it has a numberplate.
> 
> P. S.: German wikipedia calls it a "guided trolley bus".


In Clermont-ferrand, there isn't any numberplate on it, so it must be a tram in France and a bus in China.


----------



## JustinB

^^It's not a tram. It's a guided trolley bus. It can get away with using one wire, since the vehicle is in constant contact with the guiderail. But it's not a tram. Far from it.
Rebasepoiss: Yep. Plus the maintenance cost to maintain a hybrid vehicle would be high.


----------



## thib8500

It's clearly a tram. It needs to be guided all the time, there are heads on both extremities. If Translhor is not a tram, then, many métro in Paris, Lyon, Marseille and Montreal are not métro.


----------



## Coccodrillo

The Translohrs in France and Italy are legally considered trams (instead the TVRs aren't).

Rubber tyred metro in Paris, Lyon, Marseille and Montreal are railways, because they have also steel wheels and could run on standard railway tracks without the tyres (and do that in depots). VAL system are not traditional railways, but are considered metro.

Translohrs are trams in the sense of "guided urban transport running on streets", but aren't conventional trains (normal tram lines are railways).


----------



## JoKo65

Coccodrillo said:


> The Translohrs in France and Italy are legally considered trams (instead the TVRs aren't).
> 
> Rubber tyred metro in Paris, Lyon, Marseille and Montreal are railways, because they have also steel wheels and could run on standard railway tracks without the tyres (and do that in depots). VAL system are not traditional railways, but are considered metro.
> 
> Translohrs are trams in the sense of "guided urban transport running on streets", but aren't conventional trains (normal tram lines are railways).


But why needs the Translohr in France no numberplate, but the TVR in Caen needs one? The TVR in Caen can't leave the rail too, like the Translohr?

TVR in Caen:









_wiki_


----------



## thib8500

TVR can leave the rail in Caen too. They do it at the end of the service and when there are problems on the rail.


----------



## leo_sh

The number plates on Shanghai Translohr are not bus number plates. They are not even official vehicle plates.

In China, all buses use yellow utility Vehicle plates, and the number begins with shortened province name (e.g. 沪 (Hu) instead of full name 上海 (Shanghai)).

So these plates on Translohr are not official vehicle number plates.


----------



## UD2

I don't have anything good to say about the type of technology or its usefulness.


----------



## Coccodrillo

JoKo65 said:


> But why needs the Translohr in France no numberplate, but the TVR in Caen needs one? The TVR in Caen can't leave the rail too, like the Translohr?





thib8500 said:


> TVR can leave the rail in Caen too. They do it at the end of the service and when there are problems on the rail.


Exactly: the TVR is legally considered a bus (and is limited to 25 m) the Translohr is legally regsitered as a tramway (and has not limitations in length).

By the way the firsts prototypes of Translohr could travel without the rail.


----------



## The Chemist

leo_sh said:


> The number plates on Shanghai Translohr are not bus number plates. They are not even official vehicle plates.
> 
> In China, all buses use yellow utility Vehicle plates, and the number begins with shortened province name (e.g. 沪 (Hu) instead of full name 上海 (Shanghai)).
> 
> So these plates on Translohr are not official vehicle number plates.


You beat me to it.  

The Chinese name for this tram is 有轨电车 which literally means 'electric vehicle with rail(s)'. 

Great pictures, Ode. I'll have to get out to ZhangJiang sometime to try this one out.


----------



## kix111

Would you be able to see these vehicles when you step out of the last station of line 2?


----------



## ode of bund

kix111 said:


> Would you be able to see these vehicles when you step out of the last station of line 2?


It is right below the elevated station of Line 2. :cheers1:


----------



## JustinB

thib8500 said:


> TVR can leave the rail in Caen too. They do it at the end of the service and when there are problems on the rail.


The Caen vehicle cannot leave the guideway. Where is the current going to go? The vehicles in the Nancy can leave the rail, as the vehicle collects power from dual overhead wires, ala a trolleybus.


----------



## Gag Halfrunt

^^ The TVR vehicles in Caen have diesel engines. See the Wikipedia entry.


----------



## JustinB

ah, ok. 

I meant coming off the guideral while still connected to the OCS.


----------



## Coccodrillo

Tha Caen TVR runs only by electricity during regular service and uses diesel only to go to the depot, that has not any rail.


----------



## foxmulder

Why are you guys discussing the classification?  kind o pointless. anyway...

It seems like biggest advantage of this type of transports is regular vehicles can use the same road with the tram/bus. It might be good for relatively short distance routes where rider numbers do not justify a subway but higher than a bus line can handle.


----------



## The Chemist

Does anyone know what will be done with the current elevated terminus of Line 2 once the extension to Pudong Airport is complete? IIRC, they are replacing the elevated Zhangjiang High Technology Park Station with a new underground station, so does this mean the current station will no longer be used? If so, will it be demolished? And if that's so, why on Earth was it built elevated in the first place, given that it was only built a few years ago - wouldn't they have had the long term plans for the extension to Pudong Airport already on the books at that time. 

Also, it seems based on a news report I saw on the Metro last week that Line 11, 9 (Phase 2) and 7 will be open for full operation by the end of the month (if I understood the Chinese correctly, anyway.  )


----------



## Coccodrillo

foxmulder said:


> Why are you guys discussing the classification?  kind o pointless. anyway...


The prototype Translohr was classified as bus, and was limited to 25 m, but was able to run without the rail. The serie's vehicles are classified as tramways, and thus don't have limits in length, but can't run without the rail. So the classification isn't pointless.

The Translohr costs about the same as a tramway but carries less people (it's narrrower) and is build only by one constructor. If Lohr decides to not built anymore this system, it will be impossible to buy new vehicles and so extending existing lines. This is exactly what happened with the TVR: in Caen they are surcharged and want extending the system but they can't build new vehicles for a reasonable price.


----------



## UD2

hkskyline said:


> That's quite a long subway ride from Hongqiao to Pudong on line 2!


Subway vs taxi. Which is faster and by how much?


----------



## staff

Not accounting for traffic, taxi should be quite a bit faster-- but then again, the traffic on Shanghai's expressways can be horrendous at times.


----------



## Martini87

^^Isn't the Transrapid Maglev going to connect both airports as well? Does anybody know how long would it take? Like, 10 minutes?:nuts:


----------



## The Chemist

staff said:


> Not accounting for traffic, taxi should be quite a bit faster-- but then again, the traffic on Shanghai's expressways can be horrendous at times.


If you're trying to do the trip at rush hour, forget about it. The Metro will certainly be faster. Traffic on ALL the elevated roads, especially within the inner ring road, is horrific at rush hour. 

Plus the Metro will be WAY cheaper - probably 7 or 8RMB versus likely over 200 for the taxi.


----------



## staff

^^
Yeah, in maybe 8 out of 10 cases the metro will be faster (and cheaper), obviously. 

When I arrive at PVG I usually find myself taking the maglev to Longyang Lu and then a taxi from there to my place in the city. Sure it cost maybe 15x more than taking the metro from there, but to me it is worth it not having to drag a all the luggage onto the crowded metro trains on line 2 and whatnot.


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## NCT

The outer ring road is usually OK outside of the peaks, and there's the express bus Air1 linking the two airports costing just ￥30. The downside is that at the Hongqiao end only the old terminal is served.


----------



## foxmulder

Nice summary (if repost, sorry);

http://www.shcri.com/reportdetail.asp?id=404



> In the recent 3 decades, Chinese urbanization process is accelerated prominently with the urbanization rate rising from 17.9% in 1979 to 45.7% in 2008. By the end of 2008, Chinese urban population amounted to 607 million. In the recent ten years, the YOY growth of Chinese urbanization rate will be about 1%. With the rapid development of Chinese economy and urbanization and the significant increase in the urban passenger capacity, the pure common public transit cannot satisfy the soaring demands in Chinese cities, especially in large cities. In the opposite, urban rail transit has great advantages in resource saving, environmental protection and transport efficiency.
> 
> In the late over ten years, Chinese urban rail transit construction sees a high speed. From 1995 to 2008, the number of Chinese cities with rail transit was increased from 2 to 10 with the investment YOY growth of over RMB 10 billion. By the end of 2008, there were 10 cities with 31 operated urban rail transit lines, acquiring the operating mileage of over 800 kilometers. *In 2009Q3, metro construction plans of 22 cities were approved by China's State Council with the total investment of RMB 882.003 billion (USD 129.14 billion).*
> 
> The construction of urban rail transit brings opportunities and challenges for related industries such as the real estate, communications, machinery and building materials industries as well as provides development space for industries related to the urban rail transit. Chinese central government has issued relevant policies to give priority to the development of urban public transit, improving the utilization efficiency of transport resources and relieving urban traffic jam. China will also enhance the capital investment in the urban public transit construction. Moreover, Chinese local governments also release capitals and supporting policies for the allocation and upgrading of rail transit, comprehensive interchange hubs, station construction, vehicle and facilities.
> 
> According to requirements of Chinese government, the proportion of governmental capitals should be no less than 40% in Chinese urban rail transit construction. Therefore, Chinese city governments are the investment subjects in Chinese urban rail transit construction while the rest capitals come from bank loans, which are mainly repaid by Chinese government. As Chinese city governments provide financial guarantees for the investment and financing in the urban rail transit construction, commercial banks are quite willing to release loans for rail transit projects.
> 
> By the end of 2010, there will be 55 urban rail operating lines in China with the total mileage of 1,500 kilometers. Over 6,000 vehicles will be needed. Provided each vehicle is priced at USD 1 million, Chinese investment in rail vehicles will amount to USD 6 billion before 2010.
> 
> *Cities applying to China's State Council for metro construction must meet following conditions: the urban population is over 3 million; GDP is more than RMB 100 billion; local annualized fiscal revenue exceeds RMB 10 billion.* By the end of 2008, there were 50-60 cities meeting the standard, so there are huge potentials in Chinese rail transit industry. Chinese urban rail transit market is highly valued by Chinese domestic and international capitals.


I didnt know, there were requirements for a city to have a metro line


----------



## P05

> Metro users to pass 5m mark
> 
> 2010-3-22 | NEWSPAPER EDITION
> 
> SHANGHAI'S Metro system will see a steady passenger increase as new lines are gradually put into use, officials said yesterday, with daily passenger turnover surpassing 5 million.
> 
> Currently just over 4 million passengers take the Metro every day. Passenger volume on Line 2 is now close to 1 million, up by 150,000, after the line opened its eastern extension on March 16. Two new lines, 7 and 9, also saw an increase after operation times were extended.


Read more: http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/article/2010/201003/20100322/article_431839.htm#ixzz0j1iKULWS


----------



## preppy

A nice set of pictures.


----------



## napkcirtap

kudos to the extension of line 2. but seriously ,who would take the subway btwn the two airports. and this kind of layout would render the maglev useless, at least shift a major trunk of the maglev ridership towards the subway. 
they should charge an extra fair for those exiting at the airport.


----------



## Abhishek901

napkcirtap said:


> kudos to the extension of line 2. but seriously ,who would take the subway btwn the two airports. and this kind of layout would render the maglev useless, at least shift a major trunk of the maglev ridership towards the subway.
> they should charge an extra fair for those exiting at the airport.


Why do you think that this line will be used by people to shuttle between 2 airports only. There are dozens of other stops in between. People can use the line to travel from point A to Hongqiao or point B to Pudong or between point A and B.


----------



## NCT

The journey time between the two airports on the Line 2 will simply be too long, so airport transfer traffic will safely be in the hands of the Maglev (if it eventually gets built that is).


----------



## UD2

NCT said:


> The journey time between the two airports on the Line 2 will simply be too long, so airport transfer traffic will safely be in the hands of the Maglev (if it eventually gets built that is).


for which the airport extention part should be built and will most likely be very effective.


----------



## staff

I don't understand why people perceive this line to be an airport shuttle line. It is a normal city metro line that happens to end at the two airports at either end. It is just a bonus that you're actually able to transfer between the two airports should you want to do so (which is great imo). It's main use is to move people within the city as well as from the city to either airport.

The maglev will serve as an airport transfer line once completed.


----------



## NCT

staff said:


> I don't understand why people perceive this line to be an airport shuttle line. It is a normal city metro line that happens to end at the two airports at either end. It is just a bonus that you're actually able to transfer between the two airports should you want to do so (which is great imo). It's main use is to move people within the city as well as from the city to either airport.
> 
> The maglev will serve as an airport transfer line once completed.


Can't disagree with this at all.


----------



## The Chemist

I still don't understand why they're going with only 4 car trains on the eastern end of line 2, but still calling it part of line 2 rather than a separate line (analogous to the line 1/line 5 separation). Maybe there's the possibility of running the full 8 car trains all the way to the airport at some point in the future?


----------



## napkcirtap

The Chemist said:


> I still don't understand why they're going with only 4 car trains on the eastern end of line 2, but still calling it part of line 2 rather than a separate line (analogous to the line 1/line 5 separation). Maybe there's the possibility of running the full 8 car trains all the way to the airport at some point in the future?


inorder to maintain a certain frequency i guess


----------



## NCT

The Chemist said:


> I still don't understand why they're going with only 4 car trains on the eastern end of line 2, but still calling it part of line 2 rather than a separate line (analogous to the line 1/line 5 separation). Maybe there's the possibility of running the full 8 car trains all the way to the airport at some point in the future?


To be honest I'm a bit baffled by this myself. I would think it'd be much better to have the eastern extention operating on a half-frequency (i.e. every other train still terminating at Guanglan Road) but with 8-car trains running the full route. This would be operationally easier and more convenient for residents of Chuanshan, Shiwan and Tangzhen, and not least those travelling to the airport.

I do believe however that in the long term once all the trains have arrived Line 2 will no longer be operated in two sections but with through 8-car trains. All the new stations are built with 8-car trains in mind.


----------



## The Chemist

News from today:

- Shanghai Metro recorded highest ever daily ridership on April 2nd (5.6 million); expecting over 6 million/day during the Expo (May 1st - October 31st)

- Underground transfer hall between Line 1 and Line 9 at Xujiahui Station opens today

- Line 9 between Century Avenue and Central Yanggao Road opens today

- Line 2 between Guanglan Road and Pudong Airport opens tomorrow

- Line 10 expected to open by the end of the month


----------



## The Chemist

More News:

Line 10 opens for trial (9am-4pm only) operation tomorrow, except for the stretch between Shanghai Zoo and Hongqiao Railway Station. It will be fully operational before the Expo begins on May 1st. 

New photos:

Line 1 Platform at Xujiahui









Transfer Corridor between Line 1 and 9 at Xujiahui









Expo Advertisement









Line 9 Ticket Hall - Xujiahui









Station Art, Xujiahui. The light blue line at the top of the wall indicates this is the Line 9 section of the station. All underground stations are colour-coded with the colour of the Line they are on. 









Line 9 Platform at Xujiahui









Inside Line 9 Train. Note the LCD display at the end of the car. 


















Line 9 Platform at Century Avenue









Century Avenue - with 4 lines (2, 4, 6, 9), it is the largest interchange station in the system. Note the directional arrows on the floor indicating where to go for each line. 









Looking up at the Line 6 Platform at Century Avenue









Going up the escalator from Line 4 at Century Avenue









In-station signage examples:


----------



## Blue raven

The Chemist said:


>


Wow. They made the corridor look great.


----------



## staff

^^
Yeah that looks cool. A nice surprise!


Pics and video of Line 10 that is opening tomorrow:
http://sh.xinmin.cn/minsheng/2010/04/08/4348876.html


----------



## big-dog

*Line 10 opens today (apr-10-2010)*

One of the major line in Shanghai, line 10, with 36km crossing 8 districts

Best of all, it stops at my office building 




























(pics from sina)


----------



## staff

^^
big-dog,

You're in Shanghai now?  

Great line-- can't wait to try it!


----------



## Abhishek901

What's the length of Shanghai metro now after this line ?


----------



## P05

420km

Today is the 15th aniversary of the opening of the Shanghai metro. :banana:


----------



## Abhishek901

That means Shanghai metro overtook London Underground today to become the longest metro in the world.


----------



## Falubaz

Abhishek901 said:


> That means Shanghai metro overtook London Underground today to become the longest metro in the world.


Finally! Aahahha that's great news!, other chinese city will be soon on the top of the list as well.


----------



## Abhishek901

Falubaz said:


> Finally! Aahahha that's great news!, other chinese city will be soon on the top of the list as well.


By 2012-2013, I guess ?


----------



## staff

Beijing is next up.


----------



## P05

Beijing, Wuhan, Guangzhou, Nanjing, Tianjin, Chongqing and Shenzhen have plans to build metros longer than 400 kilometres. I don't know if there are more cities, maybe Shenyang?


----------



## Abhishek901

I think many of them will take a long time to reach 400 km mark.


----------



## ddes

Only Beijing and perhaps Guangzhou and maybe Shenzhen will approach 400km.


----------



## Pansori

So Shanghai is officially the longest metro system? Great news and a milestone.
What are next opening lines/extensions in 2010?


----------



## AlexisMD

Abhishek901 said:


> I think many of them will take a long time to reach 400 km mark.


you know chinese , speeeed  
5-7 years ? :cheers:


----------



## The Chemist

Pansori said:


> So Shanghai is officially the longest metro system? Great news and a milestone.
> What are next opening lines/extensions in 2010?


The Line 13 expo line section, the northern extension of line 7, and the Hongqiao airport branch of Line 10 are still not yet open.


----------



## Abhishek901

AlexisMD said:


> you know chinese , speeeed
> 5-7 years ? :cheers:


Before speed comes the neeeeed  

I don't think some of these cities will need such large metros so quickly. They may keep on getting new metro lines with time depending on need.


----------



## Pansori

The Chemist said:


> The Line 13 expo line section, the northern extension of line 7, and the Hongqiao airport branch of Line 10 are still not yet open.


Thanks, that clears things a bit.

I have checked the numbers shown in Wikipedia, however it's a little confusing because it's not clear which infois up to date and what is what in general. So how long are all the sections to be completed in 2010 and what will be the total system length by the end of 2010?

Currently the figure given is *424,7km* which is definitely up to date (although not sure if it is precise because there is no any source given, just added up all the lines).


----------



## Pansori

Hmm, if I add up all the lenghts shown in that table I get 447,9km, not 424,7... is it my calculator or what? 

I guess it's worth waiting for some official data.


----------



## coreyt

Pansori said:


> Hmm, if I add up all the lenghts shown in that table I get 447,9km, not 424,7... is it my calculator or what?
> 
> I guess it's worth waiting for some official data.


They aren't including the Maglev. But I'm too lazy to check if it's right anyways. Shanghai is truly amazing, doesn't matter how long it is.:cheers:


----------



## Abhishek901

Pansori said:


> Hmm, if I add up all the lenghts shown in that table I get 447,9km, not 424,7... is it my calculator or what?
> 
> I guess it's worth waiting for some official data.


Total length does not includes Maglev line, which explains the difference. And I think the total including it should be 457 instead of 447. So, anyways, it is your calculator


----------



## Pansori

Oh yeah, then I get 414.9km. Still not 424.7km... and not 400km as stated in Shanghai Metro website here although it doesn't precisely clarify if it only passed the 400km milestone or if this is the precise number.

And how doesn't it matter. Of course it does! Numbers is what we love!


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## ode of bund

One brand new subway and one extension commenced revenue operation on the eve of Shanghai Expo 2010. On April 8th, the 26km extension to PVG airport was added on Line 2. At 64km overall distance and linking two major airports, PVG and SHA, Line 2 is now the longest subway in Shanghai. However Line 2 is currently being operated with two different types of train sets, the 8 car trains operate from SHA, through downtown Shanghai, Lujiazui Financial district, Longyang Road Meglev Station, and terminates at Guanglan Road. Passengers who wish to continue the journey east toward PVG must do a cross platform transfer to 4 car trains at Guanglan Road. The good news is that unlike other subway hub stations where transfers require going up the escalator, walking long distance across a hallway, then walking down the escalator to reach the platform of another subway, this is just a simple cross platform transfer. All subway stations between Guanglan Road and PVG are built to accomodate 8 car trains for future expansion. 

On April 10th, the long anticipated new subway, the 36km Line 10 also commenced service. This subway is regarded as a platinum route as it runs from northeast to westend linking densely populated residential communities, university campuses, shopping streets, business centers, and tourist attractions. The line eventually branches off into two spurs near Shanghai Zoo, the west end of the city, one going to the residential neighborhood of Hanghua, to other going to SHA airport to join line 2, however, only the branch going to Hanghua is open today. 

The opening of Line 10 has brought the overall length of Shanghai's subway network to 420km, surpassing most other subway networks in the world. Coincidentally, April 10th is the 15th anniversary of the opening of Shanghai's first subway. On April 10th 1995, the 16km phase I of subway Line 1 began trial operation. The construction of Line 1 took 5 years, thus retroactively from the beginning of the construction of Line 1 in 1990, to the opening of Line 10 in 2010, within two decades, Shanghai's subway network has grown from NOTHING to 420km! Before the Expo 2010 opens on May 1st, one more subway, Line13 which is the Expo shuttle, will begin revenue operation in the next few days.


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## Abhishek901

ode of bund said:


> The opening of Line 10 has brought the overall length of Shanghai's subway network to 420km, surpassing *most* other subway networks in the world.


Most or All ?


----------



## Pansori

^^
All.
I guess they just decided no to boast about it too much.

Anyway, I wonder when Shanghai is going to take the title of the largest system in terms of daily passenger numbers? Currently it should be about number 5 by this measure (after Tokyo, Moscow, Seoul and NYC).


----------



## Scion

^^ Currently Shanghai's averaged daily ridership is 3.6 million, Beijing's averaged daily ridership is 5 million. So still some time to go


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## Pansori

^^
In a Xinhua article it says the daily ridership of Shanghai Subway is 4.78 million. (i.,e. the numebr of tickets sold... or is it not the correct figure for passengers?)
Source: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/china/2010-04/11/c_13245720.htm

Is there any source on Beijing daily passenger figures?


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## ode of bund

Abhishek901 said:


> Most or All ?



I wouldn't use the word "all", but most is certainly appropriate.


----------



## Scion

Pansori said:


> ^^
> In a Xinhua article it says the daily ridership of Shanghai Subway is 4.78 million.
> 
> Is there any source on Beijing daily passenger figures?


Nice! That's very close then.

There is only Chinese source for Beijing

http://news.xinhuanet.com/politics/2010-01/12/content_12797439.htm


----------



## ode of bund

Xinhua is the least trust worthy media source in China.


----------



## Pansori

@Scion
Interesting. 5 million in Beijing is much more than I though.

@ode of bund
Why? Are you saying they just made it up of what?


----------



## Abhishek901

ode of bund said:


> I wouldn't use the word "all", but most is certainly appropriate.


Why ? The longest metro till few days back was London Underground with a length of 400 km. So that makes Shanghai metro larger than all. Isn't it ?



Scion said:


> ^^ Currently Shanghai's averaged daily ridership is 3.6 million, Beijing's averaged daily ridership is 5 million. So still some time to go


This ridership figure is an average for last year. And at that time, the length of metro was not that much. So for an expanding system, we should use the most recent daily figure.


----------



## Pansori

Abhishek901 said:


> This ridership figure is an average for last year. And at that time, the length of metro was not that much. So for an expanding system, we should use the most recent daily figure.


Precisely. Considering the incredible speed at which Shanghai (and other cities in China) are expanding their metro systems, it makes more sense to look at average daily stats from the previous month (if they are available, of course) than the entire year.


----------



## ode of bund

Pansori said:


> Hmm, if I add up all the lenghts shown in that table I get 447,9km, not 424,7... is it my calculator or what?
> 
> I guess it's worth waiting for some official data.


OK I know how this number of 424.7km is reached now. I added all the mileage of each individual subway together which came up to a total of 414.9km, still 9.8km short of 424.7km. This 9.8km is the current total mileage of Zhangjiang Translohr tram. The 424.7km total mileage did not include the mileage of Meglev.

However 424.7km is still incorrect since Line 3 and Line 4 shares 11.9 km of track, and this 11.9km duplicate mileage must be excluded from the calculation. Therefore if we just take into account of all subways, excluding the duplicate, excluding the Translohr, excluding the Meglev, the exact mileage of all SUBWAYS should be 424.7-9.8-11.9=403km.


----------



## Pansori

ode of bund said:


> OK I know how this number of 424.7km is reached now. I added all the mileage of each individual subway together which came up to a total of 414.9km, still 9.8km short of 424.7km. This 9.8km is the current total mileage of Zhangjiang Translohr tram. The 424.7km total mileage did not include the mileage of Meglev.
> 
> However 424.7km is still incorrect since Line 3 and Line 4 shares 11.9 km of track, and this 11.9km duplicate mileage must be excluded from the calculation. Therefore if we just take into account of all subways, excluding the duplicate, excluding the Translohr, excluding the Meglev, the exact mileage of all SUBWAYS should be 424.7-9.8-11.9=403km.


Makes sense. However, what about London and other systems in terms of their length? It is usually cited as "route length" even though we know that some lines (e.g. in London it is the case with Circle/District and some other lines) sharing the same tracks? I wonder if they count the length of actual track or route (the latter would be much longer)?


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

Pansori said:


> Makes sense. However, what about London and other systems in terms of their length? It is usually cited as "route length" even though we know that some lines (e.g. in London it is the case with Circle/District and some other lines) sharing the same tracks? I wonder if they count the length of actual track or route (the latter would be much longer)?


I can't speak for London but I know that the NYC subway's 368 km does not include lines that share the same track. It has 23 train lines but most of the time, more than 1 line shares the track. In fact, the 7 train and the L train are the only two lines that do not share any part of their route with another line


----------



## Abhishek901

ode of bund said:


> OK I know how this number of 424.7km is reached now. I added all the mileage of each individual subway together which came up to a total of 414.9km, still 9.8km short of 424.7km. This 9.8km is the current total mileage of Zhangjiang Translohr tram. The 424.7km total mileage did not include the mileage of Meglev.
> 
> However 424.7km is still incorrect since Line 3 and Line 4 shares 11.9 km of track, and this 11.9km duplicate mileage must be excluded from the calculation. Therefore if we just take into account of all subways, excluding the duplicate, excluding the Translohr, excluding the Meglev, the exact mileage of all SUBWAYS should be 424.7-9.8-11.9=403km.


Though tram should not be included but I think maglev should be included. It is a metro, though as faster one. Anyways, even with 403 km, Shanghai has pipped London.



Pansori said:


> Makes sense. However, what about London and other systems in terms of their length? It is usually cited as "route length" even though we know that some lines (e.g. in London it is the case with Circle/District and some other lines) sharing the same tracks? I wonder if they count the length of actual track or route (the latter would be much longer)?


London excludes the common length of lines for calculations. Total length of all individual lines in London is about 450 km but the length of the system is reported as 400 km. That means they do not include common sections. I had confirmed it with Tubeman.

Similarly NY subway says that its route length is 1047 km and its line length is 369 km.


----------



## Pansori

^^
Thanks, it is much clearer now. 

All in all it seems Shanghai is about to stay the largest metro system for a very long time to come... perhaps for the rest of our lifetimes at the very least. 

Now the question is when Shanghai will top in terms of passenger numbers and when Beijing will come 2nd in terms of route length and, possibly, second in terms of passenger numbers as well.


----------



## Abhishek901

Pansori said:


> Now the question is when Shanghai will top in terms of passenger numbers and when Beijing will come 2nd in terms of route length and, possibly, second in terms of passenger numbers as well.


I think within few years, Shanghai may overtake Tokyo to become busiest subway but it may not remain busiest for long time as there are other big metros under construction in China and India. 

Of those, I think only Beijing and Delhi metro can compete with Shanghai metro in terms of passenger numbers. Already Beijing has more passengers with less route length. Also Delhi metro will carry more than 10 million people everyday by 2020, which is much higher than Tokyo's figure and it could be the busiest subway of the world by 2020 as the population of Delhi's metropolitan area is more than Shanghai and still increasing at a fast pace.

Beijing metro will soon become second longest in the world as it plans to built 561 km by 2015, so I guess it will cross 400 km mark by 2012-2013. Though I can't say whether Beijing subway will be among top 3-4 even after 10 years from now.


----------



## ode of bund

I found discrepencies between the numbers given on Wiki and the numbers on Urbanrail.net, for example

Wiki Urbanrail
Line 1 36.4 38.1
Line 2 63.8 64 (this is perhaps due to rounding)
Line 3 40.3 40.3
Line 4 33.7 34.2
Line 5 17.2 17.2
Line 6 31.1 31.5
Line 7 34.4 no data
Line 8 37.4 37.5
Line 9 45.8 47 (Wiki did not include the latest extension from Century Avenue to Central Yanggao Road)
Line 10 29.6 29.6
Line 11 45.8 46 (perhaps due to rounding) 

Therefore adding all individual lines together and subtract 11.9 duplicate on Lines 3/4, I get 407.9km.


----------



## Abhishek901

staff said:


> Some photos of the world's most crowded metro;


Are all these pics from Shanghai metro ? I dread to think what will be the case with Beijing subway which has more commuters for a much shorter length.


----------



## NCT

staff said:


> ^^
> The thing is that we haven't talked about "definitions" at all here. It has simply been claimed that Shanghai Metro (the system-- not various forms of rails that might be defined as "metro") has surpassed the London Underground (the LU system-- not all metro-like rail in London) in length and become the largest single metro system on the planet. In this sense, I think it is unlikely that Shanghai Metro will be surpassed in any foreseeable future.
> 
> Of course, if we're including all metro-like rail, Tokyo wins by a margin. But then again-- in that case we wouldn't even have introduced the fact that the Shanghai Metro is the world's longest in the first place. So that discussion is quite irrelevant.


Well, I'd have thought us 'geeks' would be more capable than such ivory tower conversations. In any case we've been there quite a few times already ...

Responding to the pictures the floor below of People's Square Line 2, do you know how recent they are? I hoped the opening of Lines 7, 9 and 10 would have given more interchange options for passengers hence reduced the pressure of People's Square. Of course Lines 7 and 11 themselves are bringing a lot of passengers to line 2, so the overall effect is probably limited. With the opening of lines 12 and 13 in just a few years time things at People's Square might get better.


----------



## staff

The pics were posted yesterday in this thread, so they are probably recent.

I suppose the "problem" is that while more interchange options have been introduced with the new lines, these new lines have also added hundreds of thousands of daily passengers to the system as a whole, thereby maybe even increasing overcrowding even more.


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## big-dog

^^ yes the subway crowd is increasing exponentially as length of underground rail extends. last week, I took line 1, 2, 10, 4, 6, line 1 and 6 was full packed on every train on rush hours. The interchanging crowd between line 1 and line 2 is amazing.


----------



## home300m

Shanghai & Yantze Region will look the way much better in 2020, 877km and 22 lines - Awesome!

Love Shanghai. 

Been to Busan and Seoul but they are declining to the soil in my opinion. . .


----------



## Langur

Pansori said:


> No way, you are NOT saying that London could be a match to London in terms of system size in the future, are you . Such an argument fails instantly. Why not to add the suburban rail which also has "metro characteristics" in some instances? Let's just be realistic.
> 
> The reality is that by 2020 or so Shanghai will have a system twice the size of London. By then Beijing and perhaps some other Chinese cities will have larger systems.


Not really. By 2017 (which is before 2020 last I checked  ), Crossrail (118.5km) will be complete, Thameslink will have been upgraded to Tube frequencies (225km, though only about 80km of that could genuinely be considered metro-type in terms of frequencies, etc), London Overground (not to be confused with suburban commuter rail, as Overground is on the Tube map, and which includes former Tube lines such as the newly extended and upgraded East London line) will have at least 120km just including the latter, and then there's the rapidly expanding DLR. Including all metro-type rail, therefore, I think London will stay comfortably ahead of Shanghai and Beijing, especially given that some of the latter's planned lines are actually suburban commuter style services that terminate at a central terminal, and if those are included then London's system dwarfs Shanghai and Beijing put together.


----------



## Pansori

What about including some other London's suburban services since they run at "metro frequencies" (6-8 trains per hour)? 

But, of course, this is not what we are counting which is why neither Thamselink, nor Crossrail or anything else which is not a part of the LU network is not included in the system length of London just like isn't the Eurostar or anything else that our endless imagination is capable of producing at times.


----------



## Langur

Pansori said:


> What about including some other London's suburban services since they run at "metro frequencies" (6-8 train per hour)?


Well you can if you like, but I would exclude them because they terminate at city centre stations, and are thus better classified as suburban commuter rail. Crossrail, Thameslink, LO, etc are not just frequent, they also cross right through the city and appear on the basic Tube map.


Pansori said:


> But, of course, this is not what we are counting which is why neither Thamselink, nor Crossrail or anything else which is not a part of the LU network is not included in the system length of London just like isn't the Eurostar or anything else that our endless imagination is capable of producing at times.


Well it depends what you want. If you want a sensible discussion of the hard facts and realities, then of course Crossrail, Thameslink, LO should be included. However if you simply want to manipulate the data in order to make Shanghai seem bigger, and London seem smaller, then by all means insist on LU only.


----------



## deasine

Great to hear Londoners loving their underground and network rail services, but this is the Shanghai Metro forum guys and should only be reserved for discussing about Shanghai's Metro. I'm not understanding the need to compare both systems when they serve two very distinct cities with unique transportation patterns and problems. Let's keep this thread back on track and not have it derail again.


----------



## Pansori

Langur said:


> Well you can if you like, but I would exclude them because they terminate at city centre stations, and are thus better classified as suburban commuter rail. Crossrail, Thameslink, LO, etc are not just frequent, they also cross right through the city and appear on the basic Tube map.Well it depends what you want. If you want a sensible discussion of the hard facts and realities, then of course Crossrail, Thameslink, LO should be included. However if you simply want to manipulate the data in order to make Shanghai seem bigger, and London seem smaller, then by all means insist on LU only.


I want to compare the numbers of the lengths of metro systems. If I'll be willing to compare metro systems+crossrail+thamselink+anything else I will do precisely that.

I have no problem with anyone comparing whatever they want but I think I stated rather clearly what I was and what I wasn't comparing.

But yeah, I guess it's a good practice not to derail this thread with offtopic.


----------



## staff

It has been clear over the past few years that Londoners (and many other Western cities that are being surpassed by evil Chinese cities in various aspects) have a big problem with the Chinese transit systems growing and surpassing the LU.

In any case-- nobody in this thread has claimed that Shanghai has more "metro like rail" or a bigger urban rail system than Greater London. The only thing that has been said is that the Shanghai Metro has surpassed the London Underground in length ("but, but, but... we have more metro like rail!!"-- seriously, how old are you guys, three?). That's it. Let's leave it at that and, please, leave your silly complexes out of this thread...


----------



## Langur

Forget your imagined "complexes" and stick to the facts. The truth is that Crossrail, Thameslink, LO, etc, are metro rail, and so should be included. Your argument is akin to excluding all mention of the RER in Paris even though it's obviously metro rail (at least in inner Paris). And as NCT mentioned already, Shanghai's planned lines 21 and 22 are are actually suburban commuter rail rather than metro rail, so sifting through the definitions and labels to find the hard reality is a relevant exercise here.


----------



## staff

> In any case-- nobody in this thread has claimed that Shanghai has more "metro like rail" or a bigger urban rail system than Greater London. The only thing that has been said is that the Shanghai Metro has surpassed the London Underground in length.


This.


----------



## Langur

^ No, this.... 


Langur said:


> Well it depends what you want. If you want a sensible discussion of the hard facts and realities, then of course Crossrail, Thameslink, LO should be included. However if you simply want to manipulate the data in order to make Shanghai seem bigger, and London seem smaller, then by all means insist on LU only.


- Langur and NCT = blue
- Staff and Pansori = red


----------



## staff

But the purpose of this thread isn't to discuss with Londoners the definitions of what constitutes as "metro" or not in the respective cities. 

The Shanghai Metro (the single system) has reached a certain length making it, according to the newspaper articles posted, the longest single metro system in the world, including the London Underground. The fact that London has other rail systems that are "metro like" is completely irrelevant (in that case we can forget about both London and Shanghai, because Tokyo surely has more "metro like" rail anyway) in this case.


----------



## thicken

very good


----------



## Langur

staff said:


> But the purpose of this thread isn't to discuss with Londoners the definitions of what constitutes as "metro" or not in the respective cities.
> 
> The Shanghai Metro (the single system) has reached a certain length making it, according to the newspaper articles posted, the longest single metro system in the world, including the London Underground. The fact that London has other rail systems that are "metro like" is completely irrelevant (in that case we can forget about both London and Shanghai, because Tokyo surely has more "metro like" rail anyway) in this case.


Because Shanghai's boast is dubious at best. The reality is that London has considerably more metro rail than Shanghai.


----------



## staff

^^
How can you call it boasting (it's not even the Shanghai Metro company or whoever you're referring to when you write "Shanghai's boast" that is claiming it)? 

Should Shanghai deliberately split up its metro into several smaller "cross rail" and "Huangpu Link" systems so that the newspapers won't claim that the Shanghai Metro is longer than the London Underground (which is, indeed, a fact)? 

If London is so eager to let the world know that it has more "metro like" rail than Shanghai, then I suggest changing the name of its other systems to "London Underground" so that the media won't be confused by the terminology. In any case it seems pointless since there are cities in the world that has more metro like rail than London anyway (which, if I'm not mistaken, doesn't hold any such title any more now that Shanghai Metro has surpassed the LU).


----------



## Langur

staff said:


> If London is so eager to let the world know that it has more "metro like" rail than Shanghai, then I suggest changing the name of its other systems to "London Underground" so that the media won't be confused by the terminology.


Now that really would be childish!! However we urban geeks can do better than the general media. We can see past distortions created by official labels and focus on the underlying reality.

And yes, Tokyo has the world's biggest urban rail network, whether we count metro rail only, or if we count all urban rail (ie suburban commuter lines too). London is second on both counts.


----------



## staff

^^
Exactly. London didn't have any problems "boasting" about the fact that the Underground was the longest subway system in the world prior to being surpassed by the Shanghai Metro. And now, that it has-- other "metro like" rail are suddenly to be included-- which is kind of a moot point because including other types of rail is going to put Tokyo on top leaving both Shanghai and London in the dust anyway.


----------



## NCT

Line 13 is running a shuttle service, using rolling stock from line 9.


----------



## ode of bund

Dog fight over a fare dispute of ￥1.00 RMB (=U$ 0.15) on a Shanghai bus.

http://www.56.com/u53/v_NTA2MTAzMzg.html

The bitch is shouting the dirtiest profanity in Shanghai dialect.


----------



## Deng

iampuking said:


> A way of increasing passenger throughput would be to increase frequency. AFAIK, many Shanghai lines run at a rather low frequency compared to other city's metros.


Does anyone know why this is? I've seen charts somewhere that state that even on lines 1 & 2 the shortest time between trains is 3 minutes. Is this a signaling issue or what? Is there a shortage or rolling stock? For some reason I doubt the latter. 

Congestion on these two lines was bad when I was there in 08. I fear what it will be like in my upcoming trip.


----------



## NCT

Deng said:


> Does anyone know why this is? I've seen charts somewhere that state that even on lines 1 & 2 the shortest time between trains is 3 minutes. Is this a signaling issue or what? Is there a shortage or rolling stock? For some reason I doubt the latter.
> 
> Congestion on these two lines was bad when I was there in 08. I fear what it will be like in my upcoming trip.


I don't know if signalling is an issue but lack of rolling stock definitely is one. There are only a handful of manufacturers in China but new lines are opening left right and centre.


----------



## Abhishek901

NCT said:


> I don't know if signalling is an issue but lack of rolling stock definitely is one. There are only a handful of manufacturers in China but new lines are opening left right and centre.


In such a situation, why don't they import rolling stock from other companies around the world to complement the domestic stock ?


----------



## The Chemist

Abhishek901 said:


> In such a situation, why don't they import rolling stock from other companies around the world to complement the domestic stock ?


Probably because the Chinese government imposes heavy import duties on manufactured goods from abroad - that's why companies wanting to do business in China set up manufacturing joint ventures in the country, rather than importing their products from abroad.


----------



## Deng

NCT said:


> I don't know if signalling is an issue but lack of rolling stock definitely is one. There are only a handful of manufacturers in China but new lines are opening left right and centre.


Really?? Well hopefully as the supply of rolling stock catches up with demand we will see better frequencies and thus less congestion.


----------



## pearl_river

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/world/asia/30shanghai.html

Shanghai’s infrastructure has been upgraded over the past several years with new roads, bridges, tunnels and airport terminals. Three weeks ago, a new 18.6-mile subway line opened in the western part of the city — the 11th since the city’s subway system first opened in 1995.

“After we won the right to host the Expo in 2002, we planned to construct 970 kilometers of underground track in the future and at least 400 kilometers by 2020,” said Zheng Shiling, who teaches at Tongji University in Shanghai. “But today, we already have 410 kilometers of underground track. We’ve fulfilled our plan 10 years early.”


----------



## binhai

ode of bund said:


> Dog fight over a fare dispute of ￥1.00 RMB (=U$ 0.15) on a Shanghai bus.
> 
> http://www.56.com/u53/v_NTA2MTAzMzg.html
> 
> The bitch is shouting the dirtiest profanity in Shanghai dialect.


lol, this is just hilarious


----------



## philip

Deng said:


> I've seen charts somewhere that state that even on lines 1 & 2 the shortest time between trains is 3 minutes.


That's not true. I lived in Shanghai for 3 months last year, and the shortest time between trains is 30 seconds. Yes, I actually counted because I was surprised at how fast the next train comes in just moments after the previous train leaves.

I have counted and the shortest time is 30 seconds, and it's pretty consistent during rush hours. However, even that is still not enough to alleviate congestion at major stations since most trains are already full when they come into the station, so not many people can get on it.


----------



## Alargule

^^ 30 seconds might be the interval between a few trains, but keeping that frequency consistent is just not feasible. That would mean 120 tph, which would also have to reverse at their terminus.
I think counting the number of trains for a time period of approx. 1 hour would have yielded a more accurate result.

It would be interesting to see some official numbers, though. They're probably very hard to come by, if you don't understand Chinese.


----------



## NCT

Peak frequencies for the core parts of lines 1 and 2 are both around every 3 minutes. Apparently consistent gaps of 30 seconds between the first train *leaving* and second one *arriving* is plausible if you consider a combination of factors such as dwell time and service inconsistency.

Official statistics are here on the official website:

http://www.shmetro.com/node41/node46/200809/con100172.htm

See the tables at the bottom of the page - you should be able to just make out the frequencies even if you can't read Chinese.

There is no conspiracy or issues with outdated information. The rolling stock is comprehensively documented by enthusiasts and the number of vehicles, running times and frequencies are all consistent of each other.


----------



## Abhishek901

Yeah, that's what I was thinking of. There might be some "bunching" of trains in rush hours because of some reasons which makes one think that trains are arriving very frequently. They might be clearing the previous log created because of some disruption in service.

If you want to calculate the frequency of trains manually, then you must include the dwell time too. For example if a trains stops at a station for 30 sec and next train arrives after 30 sec of previous train, then the frequency will be 60 sec.


----------



## Alargule

^^ That's right. Or, more simply: calculate the difference in time between the first train arriving and the next one arriving. Repeat that over the next hour or so; the average time interval will give you a good heads-up on overall frequency (depending on the time of day, of course - rush hour frequencies usually tend to be higher than late evening frequencies ).


----------



## iampuking

A train every 3 minutes is 20tph and is rather unimpressive. Lines in Paris/Moscow run at 36-38tph in peaks. Basically, Shanghai could almost double the capacity of their lines if they increase frequency. No need to start planning parallel lines yet.


----------



## allurban

pearl_river said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/world/asia/30shanghai.html
> 
> Shanghai’s infrastructure has been upgraded over the past several years with new roads, bridges, tunnels and airport terminals. Three weeks ago, a new 18.6-mile subway line opened in the western part of the city — the 11th since the city’s subway system first opened in 1995.
> 
> “After we won the right to host the Expo in 2002, we planned to construct 970 kilometers of underground track in the future and at least 400 kilometers by 2020,” said Zheng Shiling, who teaches at Tongji University in Shanghai. *“But today, we already have 410 kilometers of underground track. We’ve fulfilled our plan 10 years early.”*


Wow. What else can be said? :banana: :cheers:

Cheers, m


----------



## Abhishek901

iampuking said:


> A train every 3 minutes is 20tph and is rather unimpressive. Lines in Paris/Moscow run at 36-38tph in peaks. Basically, Shanghai could almost double the capacity of their lines if they increase frequency. No need to start planning parallel lines yet.


Yeah. 40 trains per hour is achievable with today's ATO (automatic train operations) technology and I think many lines of Shanghai have ATO. But the reason for low frequency is the shortage of rolling stock as somebody suggested. So I think this is a temporary problem and will get solved with arrival of new rolling stock.


----------



## z0rg

Posted by jiadream.


----------



## Abhishek901

^^ Is it 2020 plan or beyond ?


----------



## The Chemist

^That's a very cool map. Is it based on official plans for 2020? Or even further into the future? Is there really a plan to cut off the south end of Line 3 and convert the shared section between 3 and 4 to Line 4 only?


----------



## z0rg

2020. But you know they revise the mid-long term plans all the time.


----------



## staff

Amazing map!


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Abhishek901 said:


> Yeah. 40 trains per hour is achievable with today's ATO (automatic train operations) technology and I think many lines of Shanghai have ATO. But the reason for low frequency is the shortage of rolling stock as somebody suggested. So I think this is a temporary problem and will get solved with arrival of new rolling stock.


With safety doors on platforms 40 trains per hour is impossible...


----------



## pearl_river

Why do safety doors slow frequency?


----------



## Alargule

I don't get that, either. It would also contradict the use of PSD's on some of the busiest Paris Metro lines (1 and 14).

:dunno:


----------



## FabriFlorence

pearl_river said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/world/asia/30shanghai.html
> 
> Shanghai’s infrastructure has been upgraded over the past several years with new roads, bridges, tunnels and airport terminals. Three weeks ago, a new 18.6-mile subway line opened in the western part of the city — the 11th since the city’s subway system first opened in 1995.
> 
> “After we won the right to host the Expo in 2002, we planned to construct 970 kilometers of underground track in the future and at least 400 kilometers by 2020,” said Zheng Shiling, who teaches at Tongji University in Shanghai. “But today, we already have 410 kilometers of underground track. We’ve fulfilled our plan 10 years early.”


Today is an historical day! After 147 years London tube lost its word leadership.


----------



## Falubaz

FabriFlorence said:


> Today is an historical day! After 147 years London tube lost its word leadership.


But only in the length. In ridership, density and reliability it lost leadership years and years ago


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Not to mention that these 410 km have been built since 1995! 15 years only.

By the way, I wonder if London has really these 408 or whatever kms as we know many tracks are shared.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

pearl_river said:


> Why do safety doors slow frequency?


Frequency, maybe not, but the whole line capacity it sure does. These doors slow down quite much the total time of getting off-getting on, the train has to stay longer, thus reducing the line's commercial speed.

I am sorry to have told it like that above, it's not the frequency, but the total capacity of a line and especially its average commercial speed which are touched...


----------



## NCT

Falubaz said:


> But only in the length. In ridership, density and reliability it lost leadership years and years ago


Many people in Shanghai are also aware of differences in ticketing and station locations though.


----------



## The Chemist

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Frequency, maybe not, but the whole line capacity it sure does. These doors slow down quite much the total time of getting off-getting on, the train has to stay longer, thus reducing the line's commercial speed.
> 
> I am sorry to have told it like that above, it's not the frequency, but the total capacity of a line and especially its average commercial speed which are touched...


In Shanghai the platform doors open and close at the same time as the train doors. I don't see how they affect dwell time at all.


----------



## quashlo

Typically, platform doors *do* add dwell time. There is usually about four to five seconds after the train has come to a complete stop before the platform doors and train doors open (and likewise, there is usually a similar wait before the train departs).

I would be dubious of achieving 40 tph on Shanghai's system, because the passenger movements are generally too high to do so. Your overall frequency is determined by the busiest station (i.e., longest dwell time) on the line. Probably, 30 to 32 tph is the max.


----------



## Severiano

^^ On the new lines, the drivers sometimes have to back up to align the car with the platform doors.


----------



## leo_sh

Severiano said:


> ^^ On the new lines, the drivers sometimes have to back up to align the car with the platform doors.


That is because the new lines are still operated in manual mode. The automatic mode still needs some time for tuning and testing.


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## Abhishek901

_Night City Dream_ said:


> By the way, I wonder if London has really these 408 or whatever kms as we know many tracks are shared.


London has now 400 km after it shed 8 km East London line to London Overground. This length counts shared lines as one. Taking shared lines as separate one, it is around 450 km.



The Chemist said:


> In Shanghai the platform doors open and close at the same time as the train doors. I don't see how they affect dwell time at all.


That's what I was thinking of.



quashlo said:


> Typically, platform doors *do* add dwell time. There is usually about four to five seconds after the train has come to a complete stop before the platform doors and train doors open (and likewise, there is usually a similar wait before the train departs).


Yes, there is a lag between stopping of train and opening of doors but there is no lag between opening of train doors and platform doors. So theoretically it should not add to dwell time. 



quashlo said:


> I would be dubious of achieving 40 tph on Shanghai's system, because the passenger movements are generally too high to do so. Your overall frequency is determined by the busiest station (i.e., longest dwell time) on the line. Probably, 30 to 32 tph is the max.


40 TPH has been achieved in other systems also and if they are going at 40 TPH, then surely means that those systems too would be heavily used. 

Regarding stopping time at the busiest station, if the trains stops for 30 sec at the busiest stations, and it takes 10 sec for the time lags between opening and closing of doors, etc., then also it leaves a gap of 50 sec (90-40) between departure of one train and arrival of other. Modern signalling systems are capable of handling that frequencies. However if stoppage time increases at major stations, then it is a big concern.


----------



## quashlo

Abhishek901 said:


> Yes, there is a lag between stopping of train and opening of doors but there is no lag between opening of train doors and platform doors. So theoretically it should not add to dwell time.


I don't understand your logic here... Also remember that computers aren't perfect, and the operator frequently needs to realign the train with the platform doors or barriers, which easily adds another ten seconds or more. You also need to design in some slack, as no system is perfect.

In fact, I just saw one two days ago at Hongqiao Terminal 2 Station spend thirty seconds plus trying to realign twice (once going in reverse) with the platform doors. In the end, the operator opened the doors, but the train doors still weren't perfectly aligned. 



Abhishek901 said:


> 40 TPH has been achieved in other systems also and if they are going at 40 TPH, then surely means that those systems too would be heavily used.


Really? Take Paris, for example. The rolling stock is quite small, and the interior layout limits standing passengers, so overall, the "passenger load" per door is actually smaller. Just looking at the surface, one might say, "Well if Paris can do it, then why can't Shanghai (or xx)?" but you can't really compare the two.


----------



## particlez

abishek was alluding to platform doors in general, and not one specific example of malfunctioning doors due to teething difficulties. similarly, you could have stated that computer controlled trains are worse than old fashioned manual controls because computers can break down. yet do computer controls make the subway any slower on average?

if the various transit systems were to be built from scratch, and had generous budgets, i'd bet they'd all choose platform doors. on the systems i've used, the platform doors opened and closed within a split second of the train's doors, not to mention all their other advantages.

then there's the 'spanish' solution, with separate platforms for boarding and exiting the trains. there, the exiting doors open before the entrance doors. yet at the same time, the process of both entry and exit are so streamlined, the total dwell time at the station is still lower than for orthodox single platform stations.


----------



## quashlo

particlez said:


> abishek was alluding to platform doors in general, and not one specific example of malfunctioning doors due to teething difficulties.


Manual realignment of the train is not uncommon in ATO systems, regardless of whether there are platform doors / gates or not. It's just that realignment becomes an absolute necessity from a safety standpoint when you go with platform doors / gates.



particlez said:


> similarly, you could have stated that computer controlled trains are worse than old fashioned manual controls because computers can break down. yet do computer controls make the subway any slower on average?


What are you rambling on about? I am not making an argument for computer vs. human... I am only disputing the claim that 40 tph is achievable on Shanghai Metro with the current setup.



particlez said:


> if the various transit systems were to be built from scratch, and had generous budgets, i'd bet they'd all choose platform doors. on the systems i've used, the platform doors opened and closed within a split second of the train's doors, not to mention all their other advantages.


Are you reading what I posted? Probably not...
You always get hyper-defensive whenever anyone says anything about Shanghai or China in general. Just sit back and take a chill pill. hno

I am *not* arguing about time lag between opening of train doors and opening of platform doors. I am talking about time lag between train coming to complete stop and train / platform doors opening. :nuts:

I am also *not* arguing against platform doors. Only showing that they do increase dwell time.



particlez said:


> then there's the 'spanish' solution, with separate platforms for boarding and exiting the trains. there, the exiting doors open before the entrance doors. yet at the same time, the process of both entry and exit are so streamlined, the total dwell time at the station is still lower than for orthodox single platform stations.


And your point is...? What does this have to do with Shanghai?
Or are you just rambling on because you want to sound important?


----------



## particlez

^you know, 

you stated that the installation of doors would lead to a slowdown in service intervals. from the systems i have seen, hong kong, guangzhou, singapore, and barcelona, there has been no waste of time as the doors have opened almost simultaneously. the trains always stopped on cue, and there was no backing up. and this was over hundreds of subway trips. a long long time ago, i came across a civil engineering report from a coworker that had the same conclusion. your assertion that platform screen doors would necessitate lower frequencies is not borne out in actuality. 

then there are the advantages of PSD, allowing more people to safely wait on the platform, within closer distance to the actual track itself. but for the purposes of this argument, they're ignored because those doors are supposedly so slow and unreliable based on your one experience.

sadly i recognize your name from various SSP (and i have never posted there) threads, getting all po'ed over some other minutiae. 

now you could continue to say that PSDs will lower the frequencies of trains; 

but judging from the quality of your arguments and your demeanor, it's safe to say that you're arguing to blindly reinforce your initial assertion, or you have some beef against whatever locale involved.


----------



## Abhishek901

particlez said:


> then there's the 'spanish' solution, with separate platforms for boarding and exiting the trains. there, the exiting doors open before the entrance doors. yet at the same time, the process of both entry and exit are so streamlined, the total dwell time at the station is still lower than for orthodox single platform stations.


This solution cannot be implemented in already built station. You will need 1 big island platform (for boarding on both up and down trains) and 2 side platforms (for alighting) for this purpose. It would be very difficult to expand operational stations. Also it would be costly to build wider stations for this purpose.



quashlo said:


> Manual realignment of the train is not uncommon in ATO systems, regardless of whether there are platform doors / gates or not. It's just that realignment becomes an absolute necessity from a safety standpoint when you go with platform doors / gates.


I have personal experience of metro of only my city, so I cannot comment about others but here I can surely say that lines with ATO perform better than lines without ATO. I have never seen an automatic train re-aligning itself but I have seen mis-aligning in manual trains a few times.

ATO also increase the average speed of the trains because in manual trains, the driver has to slow down the train much before entering the station because he would not want to jump the stop line. He always tries for a slower halt for manually matching the doors/stop line. This wastes some time. But in ATO, trains already know when to start braking and how much braking is needed, so they enter the stations at high speed and brake much faster than manually operated trains. Since the train spends less time in the station for slowing and stopping, the actual dwell time reduces (I am counting both stopping time and braking time in the station). 

And to make this property of ATO trains successful, PSDs help a lot as the trains can fearless enter the crowded stations at high speed. Without PSDs, they might need to slow down much before the station to avoid any casualty from a person falling on the tracks. So I believe that PSDs actually help in increasing frequency :dunno:



quashlo said:


> I am only disputing the claim that 40 tph is achievable on Shanghai Metro with the *current setup*.


What kind of current set up :?


----------



## NCT

maldini said:


> Why do they have two up escalators here? Why not have one escalator up and the other escalator down ?


I think this is just a case of misleading signage. The signage is independent of the escalators below it - it's just there to show this is an exit, and it's not meant to indicate the direction of escalators. I might be wrong, but I'd be very surprised if the escalators were not the standard one up one down.


----------



## snapdragon

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> All of Shanghai's metro ridership is disappointing. Its by far the largest network in Greater China but it has over a million fewer riders daily than Beijing. Even Guangzhou's system, which is only a third the size of Shanghai's has almost as many daily riders. Do people in Shanghai just refuse to use the subway? Have they not gotten used to the fact that they don't need to use buses anymore? Why is it that Guangzhou and Beijing have so many more daily riders per km? I dunno about other metro systems in China but Guangzhou and Beijing sorta just popped out at me since they have noticeably high ridership when compared with the size of their networks. Plus Beijing and Guangzhou can't be denser than Shanghai can they?


i share the exact same view


----------



## NCT

There are a number of other reasons that explain Shanghai Metro's seemingly low patronage ...

The biggest reason is actually lack of rolling stock - when lines 7, 9, 10 and 11 operate at the same frequencies as lines 1 and 2 (every 3 minutes) then they will reach similar figures as lines 1 and 2. Expect figures for lines 1, 2 and 3 to go up too when the remote parts get beefed up. Line 8 might just reach 1 million when the whole line gets the 2-minute frequency throughout.

The structure of the network is another factor. Most journeys in Shanghai would take the form of one train into town and change to one other for the destination, so 1 passenger counts twice per typical journey. Beijing's and Guangzhou's network don't follow such a clear structure. Take Beijing for example - if you live out in the sticks you need to take 2 trains just to get to the centre, then possibly another to reach the actual destination, so a typical journey might count 3 times. This is why Beijing's statistics might look better than Shanghai's when it ain't necessarily so in reality.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

NCT said:


> There are a number of other reasons that explain Shanghai Metro's seemingly low patronage ...
> 
> The biggest reason is actually lack of rolling stock - when lines 7, 9, 10 and 11 operate at the same frequencies as lines 1 and 2 (every 3 minutes) then they will reach similar figures as lines 1 and 2. Expect figures for lines 1, 2 and 3 to go up too when the remote parts get beefed up. Line 8 might just reach 1 million when the whole line gets the 2-minute frequency throughout.
> 
> The structure of the network is another factor. Most journeys in Shanghai would take the form of one train into town and change to one other for the destination, so 1 passenger counts twice per typical journey. Beijing's and Guangzhou's network don't follow such a clear structure. Take Beijing for example - if you live out in the sticks you need to take 2 trains just to get to the centre, then possibly another to reach the actual destination, so a typical journey might count 3 times. This is why Beijing's statistics might look better than Shanghai's when it ain't necessarily so in reality.


That's pretty interesting. Never thought about it that way. Yeah come to think of it, Beijing does have pretty decent intervals at least on Line 1 and Line 10. From what I remember, they were far more frequent than even Shanghai's Line 1 and 2.

As far as the structure goes, I always thought they counted one passenger as one rider regardless of how many interchanges they make. But that was just speculation. So each passenger is counted for as many times they make an interchange too? For ex: A guy who takes Line 3 to Hongkou Stadium and transfers to Line 8 then transfers to Line 2 is counted three times?


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## The Chemist

Also, Beijing's fare is much cheaper than Shanghai's - 2 RMB regardless of distance. This probably attracts a lot more people who would have previously taken the bus. In Shanghai the bus is oftentimes quite a bit cheaper, even if it is slower. 

Anyway, I thought the ridership on the Beijing subway was around 5 million per day, so if Shanghai is getting 6 million per day now, isn't that quite a bit higher than Beijing?


----------



## NCT

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> That's pretty interesting. Never thought about it that way. Yeah come to think of it, Beijing does have pretty decent intervals at least on Line 1 and Line 10. From what I remember, they were far more frequent than even Shanghai's Line 1 and 2.
> 
> As far as the structure goes, I always thought they counted one passenger as one rider regardless of how many interchanges they make. But that was just speculation. So each passenger is counted for as many times they make an interchange too? For ex: A guy who takes Line 3 to Hongkou Stadium and transfers to Line 8 then transfers to Line 2 is counted three times?


I don't know about Beijing, but AFAIK in Shanghai the way it works is this: the theoretical shortest route is calculated between the entry and exit stations, and then each line in this 'shortest route' (irrespective of actual route taken) has its count added by one. This is how they count individual line statistics. I don't know if there exists a separate record for total journeys made in the entire system that don't count transfer journeys more than once.


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## NCT

The Chemist said:


> Also, Beijing's fare is much cheaper than Shanghai's - 2 RMB regardless of distance. This probably attracts a lot more people who would have previously taken the bus. In Shanghai the bus is oftentimes quite a bit cheaper, even if it is slower.


Yeah, and it's possible that this contributes to low off-peak demands. During peak hours though you can't pack any more passengers inside trains on most lines (certainly 1, 2, 6 and 8).



> Anyway, I thought the ridership on the Beijing subway was around 5 million per day, so if Shanghai is getting 6 million per day now, isn't that quite a bit higher than Beijing?


Yeah, but Beijing's network size is about half that of Shanghai's.


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## drunkenmunkey888

The Chemist said:


> Anyway, I thought the ridership on the Beijing subway was around 5 million per day, so if Shanghai is getting 6 million per day now, isn't that quite a bit higher than Beijing?


Granted im not sure where the source is, but wikipedia updated Beijing's subway to nearly 6 million daily riders in 2010 and as NCT said, is only half the size of Shanghai's. Guangzhou is just as impressive with 4.3 million daily riders on a network as small as Shanghai's was back in 2005. And as I recall, Shanghai had 1.8 million daily riders back then...


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## quashlo

NCT said:


> I don't know if there exists a separate record for total journeys made in the entire system that don't count transfer journeys more than once.


Well, if you look at the source for the latest numbers that P05 posted (http://www.shmetro.com/node49/201005/con104099.htm), they quote transferring ridership as 2.183 million. This would seem to give system ridership of 6.013 - 2.183 = 3.830 million.


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## Falubaz

maldini said:


> Why do they have two up escalators here? Why not have one escalator up and the other escalator down ?


If im recalling it properly the escalators worked respectively on the passangers demand at the moment. When there were more ppl arriving at the specific station - both escalators were up, if there were more departing - they both were going down.


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## quashlo

^^ I think *NCT* is right on this one... The right escalator is a down one (I have other pictures of the same stairwell showing people coming down from the concourse level). At least when I visited the station (mid-morning on a weekday, right after Line 10 had opened for service that day), the passenger traffic was very light, so I'm not so sure about the parallel escalators, at least for Yuyuan Garden.


----------



## Abhishek901

NCT said:


> The structure of the network is another factor. Most journeys in Shanghai would take the form of one train into town and change to one other for the destination, so 1 passenger counts twice per typical journey. Beijing's and Guangzhou's network don't follow such a clear structure. Take Beijing for example - if you live out in the sticks you need to take 2 trains just to get to the centre, then possibly another to reach the actual destination, so a typical journey might count 3 times. This is why Beijing's statistics might look better than Shanghai's when it ain't necessarily so in reality.


I don't think that's right. When you buy a token/ticket, you make a contact of that token with reading machine only twice in the entire journey (once during entry and once during exit). In large networks like Shanghai, there can be more than one possible route combinations between 2 stations. Also the shortest route in terms of length might not be the shortest in terms of time as it may have more interchanges thus requiring more waiting time at platforms, which means multiple journey options between 2 stations.

Since you do not make any registered entry while changing lines and there are multiple options available, one cannot tell how many people took a particular line. IMO, it is the number of complete journeys which are given in the figures, instead of journeys of individual lines. Individual lines' figures are calculated by number of registered entries on that line. Unregistered entries (that is using a line after free transfer) are not counted as journeys of that line IMO.


----------



## NCT

Abhishek901 said:


> I don't think that's right. When you buy a token/ticket, you make a contact of that token with reading machine only twice in the entire journey (once during entry and once during exit). In large networks like Shanghai, there can be more than one possible route combinations between 2 stations. Also the shortest route in terms of length might not be the shortest in terms of time as it may have more interchanges thus requiring more waiting time at platforms, which means multiple journey options between 2 stations.
> 
> Since you do not make any registered entry while changing lines and there are multiple options available, one cannot tell how many people took a particular line. IMO, it is the number of complete journeys which are given in the figures, instead of journeys of individual lines. Individual lines' figures are calculated by number of registered entries on that line. Unregistered entries (that is using a line after free transfer) are not counted as journeys of that line IMO.


No no, the statistics are calculated in the way I described - the 'system' calculates the shortest route _regardless of_ actual routes likely to be taken, and adds counts to those lines involved appropriately. It's been officially explained by the operating company and this information is frequently available on forums like Metrofans and Ditiezu. Unfortunately I haven't come across any official documents regarding this in English.


----------



## The Chemist

I don't really think it's fair to complain about ridership on Shanghai's network just yet, given that several of the lines (Line 7, Line 9 phase 2, Line 10, Line 11) either just entered full service or are still in trial operation. These lines haven't had a chance to get up to full operating capacity, and so the ridership will continue to grow as people get used to using them. Line 4, for example, has had its ridership increase significantly since its train frequency has increased in the past few months, and I'm sure the other lines will see something similar. So at the moment we can't quite compare Shanghai's total network length to Beijing's and say Shanghai is underperforming. 

And I still maintain that cost is a big issue. If Shanghai were to institute a 2RMB flat fare, it probably would see its ridership skyrocket.


----------



## Geography

The other point to consider is that subways are supposed to change development patterns. They are long-term projects with ridership expected to increase over their decade or centuries-long use. Development in Shanghai might not be optimal now, but increased property values near metro stations will encourage denser development.

Shanghai's entire metro is only 15 years old so property development is a little slow in catching up. Think of it this way: when the US interstate highway system was first completed, it had no where near the traffic it does now. Did that make it a failure five or ten years after it opened? No, because the project was a long-term, "all in" investment designed to shape the future of American planning and consumerism.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

Geography said:


> Shanghai's entire metro is only 15 years old so property development is a little slow in catching up. Think of it this way: when the US interstate highway system was first completed, it had no where near the traffic it does now. Did that make it a failure five or ten years after it opened? No, because the project was a long-term, "all in" investment designed to shape the future of American planning and consumerism.


Yes but Guangzhou's opened 11 years ago. But I think its a bit of a mystery why Guangzhou's ridership is almost as high as Shanghai's even though its network is a third the size. Furthermore, Line 5 only opened this past December right? Still I don't think anyone can say the Shanghai metro is a failure. Its still one of the busiest subway systems in the world, at least top 10.


----------



## Abhishek901

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> Yes but Guangzhou's opened 11 years ago. But I think its a bit of a mystery why Guangzhou's ridership is almost as high as Shanghai's even though its network is a third the size. Furthermore, Line 5 only opened this past December right? Still I don't think anyone can say the Shanghai metro is a failure. Its still one of the busiest subway systems in the world, at least top 10.


Passenger-km travelled matter more than just the number of passengers. Even if Shanghai has less number of pax than Beijing or Guangzhou, I believe it will have higher pax-km as the people will travel longer average distance here because of higher length of the system.



NCT said:


> No no, the statistics are calculated in the way I described - the 'system' calculates the shortest route _regardless of_ actual routes likely to be taken, and adds counts to those lines involved appropriately. It's been officially explained by the operating company and this information is frequently available on forums like Metrofans and Ditiezu. Unfortunately I haven't come across any official documents regarding this in English.


Is this same for other metros too ?


----------



## deasine

Abhishek901 said:


> Is this same for other metros too ?


Yes, assuming it is a distance based fare system instead of a time based one. One's journey begins by entering a set of fare gates and the distance is calculated based on the exit fare gate. How else can they figure it out?

Take Hong Kong's MTR, if you enter Admiralty and want to go to Kwun Tong Station, you have two options to take the Tsuen Wan Line, then transfer onto the Kwun Tong Line, or you can take the Island Line, transfer to the Tsuen Wan O Line, then transfer back onto the Kwun Tong Line. Even if you wanted to go to Central Station, adjacent to Admiralty, and you wanted to take a MTR tour, it will only charge you the distance for the shortest route between Admiralty and Central.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

A time based doesn't make much sense either. Better to set a single tariff regardless the time and the length of the trip.


----------



## NCT

Line 10 has extended its operation period today, now running between 5:30 to 19:30 daily with trains about every 6 minutes. The reason it can't operate beyond 19:30 is that the section between the Zoo and Hongqiao airport is still having its track laid and the trains have to be back in the shed in time as to not disrupt construction.


----------



## quashlo

*Part 5*

Finally getting back to this… Just been too busy.

Next is some pics of the Zhangjiang Tram, which uses Translohr guided tram technology.



I got a little lost after exiting Zhangjiang Hi-Tech Park Station and ended up taking the long way around to get to the tram… 







Tram terminus. There’s a second platform, but only a single crossover. The second platform didn’t seem to be used, but would require a double crossover to be of much use anyways. 



Shanghai Metro training center. This is actually the former elevated station, which was closed when the underground station opened in February 2010.













Platforms have LCD train locator displays. First departure from Zhangjiang Hi-Tech Park Station is 6:19, last is 22:19.







For exiting passengers:





For exiting passengers only.
Personally, I would have preferred clear or tinted glass… This reflective material covers the full length of the train, making it impossible to know from the outside what the crowding level is like, what seats are open, etc.


----------



## quashlo

*Part 6*

Inside:



Wheelchair space.



Ticketer.
Unlike Beijing, I had no trouble finding an SPTC, so I never bothered buying tickets except on my first journey after arriving at Hongqiao.



Got off at the Guanglan Road ‒ Zuchongzhi Road Station.











Pedestrian zone treatment



Time to head over to Guanglan Road Station on Metro Line 2.



Lots of taxis surrounding the entrance…





Bike parking, and a look at the surrounding development…





Exit 4 of Guanglan Road Station:





To be continued...


----------



## Geography

How fast is that guided tram compared to a bus, car, or bicycle?


----------



## ruimcardoso

Thanks for the pics
next time that you can, can you please take a picture of the rails so we can see how it changes lines? 
what kinf of wheel does it have? a normal car tire or metal wheel like a normal tram?


Thanks again


----------



## nanar

See here, for technical datas :

http://www.lohr.fr/transport-public_gb.htm


----------



## UD2

this system is so stupid. I hope i'm not offending anyone here. 

and no lane seperation?


----------



## quashlo

I don't think the lack of separation is much of an issue, at least for now... Most of the roads are fairly wide and there isn't much traffic on the streets.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

UD2 said:


> this system is so stupid. I hope i'm not offending anyone here.


Agreed. It has the disadvantages of both trolleybus and tram.


----------



## big-dog

chornedsnorkack said:


> Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
> Line 10 extension to Hongqiao airport will open next week,
> 
> 
> 
> On which day?
> What shall be faster to reach from Hongqiao - Jiangwan New Town or Hangzhou?
Click to expand...

The line 10 extension to Hongqiao airport opening is postponed to end of this month. Currently only line 2 connects with Hongqiao airport.


source


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## onthebund

希望到2020年，上海的轨交规模可以超过大东京！！！12号线-23号线慢慢造吧，十年的时间足够了！！！硬件水平进步了，但是软件水平和国外先进城市还有很大差距的。好好努力吧。加油啦。。


----------



## The Chemist

onthebund said:


> 希望到2020年，上海的轨交规模可以超过大东京！！！12号线-23号线慢慢造吧，十年的时间足够了！！！硬件水平进步了，但是软件水平和国外先进城市还有很大差距的。好好努力吧。加油啦。。


For those of you that don't read Chinese, our enthusiastic friend here says: "I hope that by 2020, Shanghai's rail transport model could exceed Tokyo's in length. Hurry up with Line 12 to 23 - 10 years is enough time. The hardware level is advancing, but the software is still well behind other international cities. Work hard. Go on!"


----------



## Abhishek901

Software ? Does he mean ATO technology et al ?


----------



## NCT

Abhishek901 said:


> Software ? Does he mean ATO technology et al ?


I think in the Chinese sense software refers to service and management.


----------



## NCT

The Hongqiao branch of Line 10 is finally opening tomorrow (30 Nov)! Should relieve some pressure from Line 2.


----------



## CNGL

^^ Finally! Now they have to open the line 7 to Meilan lake by the end of this year. Wikipedia is not updated yet, but Urbanrail has been already updated.

BTW, what are they doing with the little section of line 13 they opened for the Expo?


----------



## NCT

CNGL said:


> BTW, what are they doing with the little section of line 13 they opened for the Expo?


Good question. According to threads on metrofans.sh.cn this section of the 13 is currently closed, and the trains have been returned to line 9 (from which they came).

A bit of trivia regarding the newly opened section of line 10. At the moment it is impossible to change between lines 2 and 10 at Hongqiao Airport Terminal 2. The station layout is thus:

========2 West========
ISLAND PLATFORM
========2 East========
ISLAND PLATFORM
========10 East========
ISLAND PLATFORM
========10 West=======

The idea was that trains going east on both lines would open both sets of doors so only a cross-platform interchange is required and passengers who have just got off the plane could have maximum flexibility with getting into town (East). Now technical reasons mean that the middle island platform cannot be used. In addition to that the two lines have separate barriered zones on the level above, so they comtemplated enable out-of-the-station interchange. Now it transpires that programming difficulties mean even this won't be possible for at least a week.

As line 10 connects the 2 terminals of Hongqiao Airport the free inter-terminal shuttle bus has been withdrawn. Passengers needing to switch terminals will now have to pay a ￥3 fare, as well as walk 500 metres between Terminal 1 and the metro station, negotiate a flight of stairs and enjoy the weather.


----------



## hkskyline

*Teething troubles for new super capacitor buses*
By Xu Chi and Zha Minjie 
2010-12-3
Shanghai Daily

IT was not the first time that Zhang, the driver of a No. 26 bus, had to explain patiently to a passenger why the bus was taking so much time in front of a green light before moving.

"Calm down, it's a super capacitor bus, so we have to feed it with electricity. Thank you for your understanding," said Zhang.

Zhang and other No. 26 bus drivers were quite excited when they were offered the opportunity to drive the World Expo buses - a fleet of 25 electrically-powered super capacitor buses which enjoy a good reputation for zero-emissions, less noise during operation and offering a more comfortable experience for passengers.

But after the Expo buses replaced the old ones last week, drivers found their work was actually getting tougher. They now have to keep their eyes on the dashboards, because whenever a yellow warning sign flashes, they have to recharge their vehicles. If they fail to do so, the buses will stop dead.

Although charging points have been set up at every stop along the route of the No. 26 bus, it is still not an easy task for drivers to get their vehicles recharged every 5 to 6 kilometers as the stops are often occupied by other cars and buses during rush hour.

On Changle Road, where a kindergarten and a hospital are situated, parents of children and relatives of patients park their vehicles all along the street, making it hard for buses to get into position and recharge.

During rush hour on some narrow streets, whenever the drivers get their buses into the recharging station, it takes up to four minutes to top up the battery and traffic jams are easily caused.

Another difficulty for the drivers is that they share stops with many other routes, so it is not always possible to get to the recharging station before the battery runs out. Even tree branches get in the way as the new buses are taller than the old ones.

The problems cast into doubt the fate of the Expo buses - should they be used along the routes where traffic is less crowded instead of on main downtown routes?

According to a senior technician surnamed Wu who works on the No. 11 bus fleet, which started using super capacity buses in 2006, the problems of No. 26 bus drivers can be solved with training courses and more time for both the drivers and passengers to get used to the new buses.

"We encountered similar problems when using the new buses four years ago," said Wu, "But when the drivers gained experience and learnt when and how to charge their buses properly and efficiently, all the problems disappeared."

The No. 11 buses run on Zhong-hua Road and Renmin Road, also a downtown area with narrow streets.


----------



## big-dog

11.30 taking line 10 to airport (on airport-section opening day)




























arriving hongqiao airport T2









in T2 station









walking out









T2 check-in area









Arriving Beijing airport









photos taken by me.


----------



## hkskyline

big-dog said:


> walking out


Eirgh ... if they're going to put out an English translation, they should do it right!


----------



## big-dog

^^ you can see this kind of translation everywhere in China  Actually I'm happy they get the station name translated correct.


----------



## onthebund

from Shanghaidaily.com

Line 20 to serve Qingpu


Flickr 上 amemia 的 hghg


----------



## NCT

The Chemist said:


> I don't think so. Pretty sure the tunnels are too small, since the whole line reeks of cost cutting.


Line 8 was originally going to use full-size trains. The story goes when Shanghai had its Alstom factory in Minhang it could only produce type-C trains, and it needed to produce a certain number of carriages to be a viable business, so they thought, 'well, lines 6 and 8 are due to be constructed next so let's have them running these C-trains, bingo!' 



> Come to think of it, for a brand new system the Shanghai Metro has a bunch of horrible planning decisions, some of which I'll list below.
> 
> - decision to build Line 5 as a completely separate line rather than a southern extension of Line 1 (could have treated it very similarly to the eastern extension of Line 2, using shorter trains on the stretch between Xinzhuang and Minhang Free Trade Zone until traffic warranted longer trains)


It was actually an illegal decision made by Minhang Borough Council, who subsequently got heavily fined by the central government for not following central planning laws. Had the whole planning process been less Beijing-centric we might have had a better outcome.



> - no interchange at all between Lines 7 and 10


Changshu Road has those posh villas inhabited by people too important to be disturbed.



> - no interchange at all between Lines 1 and 13


Line 13 was initially going to connect to Line 1 at South Huangpi Road, but Xintiandi is too 'posh' to have a Metro line trundling underneath so the 13 got diverted away.



> - no interchange between Line 4 and 8 on the northern side of the ring


Because the intersection of the lines is on MOR land, which is too sacred to touch.



> - no interchange between Line 4 and Line 13 near the Expo park


That puzzles me too, since there aren't really any political reasons for this.



> - interlining between Lines 3 and 4 (really becoming a problem now, given the high traffic load now on Line 4 and the inability to run at frequency at less than 5 minutes due to sharing track with Line 3)


There are plans to quad-track the section between Shanghai Station and Baoshan Road, so the line 3 trains from the north can terminate at Shanghai Station, and the eastern section of line 4 can run at full capacity.



> - 'virtual interchanges'


Blame MOR.


----------



## kix111

That is such an idiotic planning, instead of using the type C trains on the less crowded lines they have chosen to use type C on the lines that goes through the most populated places in Shanghai.

They could have easily use type C trains for less popular lines like line 11 line 5 or line 7.

But since they used type C trains in order to save a domestic factory, they might have dug the tunnel with type A train standard and might be able to sell the type C trains to other cities and switch to type A trains in the future.


----------



## The Chemist

kix111 said:


> That is such an idiotic planning, instead of using the type C trains on the less crowded lines they have chosen to use type C on the lines that goes through the most populated places in Shanghai.
> 
> They could have easily use type C trains for less popular lines like line 11 line 5 or line 7.
> 
> But since they used type C trains in order to save a domestic factory, they might have dug the tunnel with type A train standard and might be able to sell the type C trains to other cities and switch to type A trains in the future.


Politics ruins everything.


----------



## kix111

^^I think its rather the government's corruption.


----------



## onthebund

from Shanghaidaily.com

Bullet train testing set to begin on Beijing link

By Dong Zhen | 2011-2-21 

CHINA'S high-speed railway development took another stride forward yesterday with the power being switched on in Shanghai and nearby cities to enable test runs on the Shanghai-Beijing high-speed rail link to start. 

The line will be fully tested from March 20 when bullet trains traveling at more than 400 kilometers per hour will make the trip to iron out any problems and make adjustments before the new line opens to the public on June 20. 

The trains will run between Shanghai's Hongqiao Railway Station and Beijing's South Railway Station during the tests, the national railway authority said yesterday. 

The 1,318-kilometer link will cut the journey between Shanghai and the capital to less than five hours from the current 10 to 18 hours. 

The line, which runs through Tianjin Municipality and Hebei, Shandong, Anhui and Jiangsu provinces, will also increase capacity in the northern, eastern and middle regions of the country. 

There will be 24 stops on the route including regional transport hubs such as Bengbu Station in Anhui Province and Xuzhou in Jiangsu Province. 

There will be some non-stop shuttles between Shanghai and Beijing in the future and the railway authority also plans to launch direct trains between Shanghai and other major cities along the way, including Tianjin, Jinan and Nanjing. 

The power grid to facilitate the train operation in Shanghai and nearby cities was switched on yesterday, the authority said, and warning signs and posters have been erected along the route. The grid will be carrying 27,500 volts of electricity and people have been warned not to get near the power supply facilities. Balloon and kite flying is also prohibited in an area 300 meters from the tracks. 

The new line is designed with a travel speed of 350kph and above. A train reached 486.1kph during a previous test on a stretch between Shandong and Anhui provinces, the railway authority said. 

It is not yet known how much tickets will cost. Flights between Shanghai and Beijing cost around 1,200 yuan at present with a journey time of 1.5 hours. 

The Shanghai-Beijing bullet train project is said to have cost 220.9 billion yuan (US$33.6 billion), the highest expenditure on a national infrastructure project to date. 

Liu Zhijun, a leading initiator of high-speed railway expansion, was removed from his post as railways minister earlier this month in connection with a probe into suspected corruption. Liu said last month that another 700 billion yuan would be invested in construction this year to build more high-speed links and improve facilities. 

The railway ministry said it was to boost capacity on the Shanghai-Nanjing and Shanghai-Hangzhou high-speed rail lines to make travel to the city's two neighboring provinces easier. There will be an increase in the number of train services from beginning of next month and the extra trains will stop at Changzhou and Wuxi in Jiangsu Province, as well as Haining and Hangzhou in Zhejiang Province.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

onthebund said:


> The railway ministry said it was to boost capacity on the Shanghai-Nanjing and Shanghai-Hangzhou high-speed rail lines to make travel to the city's two neighboring provinces easier. There will be an increase in the number of train services from beginning of next month and the extra trains will stop at Changzhou and Wuxi in Jiangsu Province, as well as Haining and Hangzhou in Zhejiang Province.


But that is not Shanghai public transportation.

How many daily trains now stop in Anting North, and will any be added?


----------



## Herzarsen

*Work on 3 Metro lines begins*

By Zha Minjie | 2011-3-2 | NEWSPAPER EDITION
The story appears on Page A4 
Mar 2, 2011 

WORK is under way on a new round of Metro construction that will see three new lines created and another extended, the subway authority announced yesterday.

By 2014, the city should have 14 lines with a network of more than 500 kilometers of track, said Shanghai Shentong Metro Group.

Among the projects under construction are Metro Line 12, Line 13 and Line 16. To date, there is no Line 14 or 15.

Line 12, linking the northeast of the city to the southwest, will have 32 stations along 40 kilometers, passing through eight districts. Passengers will be able to transfer to Line 1 and 13 at Hanzhong Road Station, to Line 2 and 13 at Nanjing Road W. Station and to Line 1 and 10 at Shaanxi Road S. Station.

Line 13 will include 14 stations, with 16 kilometers of track stretching from suburban Jiading District to downtown Jing'an District. Three stops on Line 13 were in operation during the World Expo last year. The full line is expected to include this section, and extend to Pudong New Area, said the authority.

Line 16, which will have 13 stations, will mainly operate in Pudong's Nanhui area. It will connect to Line 2 and 7 at Longyang Road and end at Lingang New City.

In addition to the three new lines, the authority is extending Line 11. Its 21-kilometer second phase stretches from Jiangsu Road Station, crossing the Huangpu River and linking to Pudong's Luoshan Road Station.

The extension, which includes 13 stops, will ease pressure on Line 2 to Pudong, said officials. Passengers can transit to Line 6 and 8 at Pudong's Jiyang Road Station. 

Panoramic View

To view a panoramic map of Shanghai's Metro system, visit http://xpo.sh/metro. 


Source:　http://www.shanghaidaily.com/nsp/Metro/2011/03/02/Work%2Bon%2B3%2BMetro%2Blines%2Bbegins/


----------



## Silly_Walks

Herzarsen said:


> *Work on 3 Metro lines begins*
> 
> By Zha Minjie | 2011-3-2 | NEWSPAPER EDITION
> The story appears on Page A4
> Mar 2, 2011
> 
> WORK is under way on a new round of Metro construction that will see three new lines created and another extended, the subway authority announced yesterday.
> 
> By 2014, the city should have 14 lines with a network of more than 500 kilometers of track, said Shanghai Shentong Metro Group.
> 
> Among the projects under construction are Metro Line 12, Line 13 and Line 16. To date, there is no Line 14 or 15.
> 
> Line 12, linking the northeast of the city to the southwest, will have 32 stations along 40 kilometers, passing through eight districts. Passengers will be able to transfer to Line 1 and 13 at Hanzhong Road Station, to Line 2 and 13 at Nanjing Road W. Station and to Line 1 and 10 at Shaanxi Road S. Station.
> 
> Line 13 will include 14 stations, with 16 kilometers of track stretching from suburban Jiading District to downtown Jing'an District. Three stops on Line 13 were in operation during the World Expo last year. The full line is expected to include this section, and extend to Pudong New Area, said the authority.
> 
> Line 16, which will have 13 stations, will mainly operate in Pudong's Nanhui area. It will connect to Line 2 and 7 at Longyang Road and end at Lingang New City.
> 
> In addition to the three new lines, the authority is extending Line 11. Its 21-kilometer second phase stretches from Jiangsu Road Station, crossing the Huangpu River and linking to Pudong's Luoshan Road Station.
> 
> The extension, which includes 13 stops, will ease pressure on Line 2 to Pudong, said officials. Passengers can transit to Line 6 and 8 at Pudong's Jiyang Road Station.
> 
> Panoramic View
> 
> To view a panoramic map of Shanghai's Metro system, visit http://xpo.sh/metro.
> 
> 
> Source:　http://www.shanghaidaily.com/nsp/Metro/2011/03/02/Work%2Bon%2B3%2BMetro%2Blines%2Bbegins/


Still now word on finishing the Maglev towards Hongqiao?


----------



## hmmwv

kix111 said:


> They could have easily use type C trains for less popular lines like line 11 line 5 or line 7.


I would argue that Line 7 is becoming increasingly popular, it links Shanghai University and the former Expo area, which in the future will become a huge development. The line also runs through Putuo District and Jinan District, and has multiple interchanges with popular lines such as 1 and 2. I agree with you on Line 8 though, I only rode it a couple times but what a mess.


----------



## UD2

delete!


----------



## The Chemist

hmmwv said:


> I would argue that Line 7 is becoming increasingly popular, it links Shanghai University and the former Expo area, which in the future will become a huge development. The line also runs through Putuo District and Jinan District, and has multiple interchanges with popular lines such as 1 and 2. I agree with you on Line 8 though, I only rode it a couple times but what a mess.


Line 6 is a disaster too. I was on it last weekend and it was packed to the gills.


----------



## big-dog

Herzarsen said:


> *Work on 3 Metro lines begins*
> 
> By Zha Minjie | 2011-3-2 | NEWSPAPER EDITION
> The story appears on Page A4
> Mar 2, 2011
> 
> WORK is under way on a new round of Metro construction that will see three new lines created and another extended, the subway authority announced yesterday.
> 
> By 2014, the city should have 14 lines with a network of more than 500 kilometers of track, said Shanghai Shentong Metro Group.
> 
> Among the projects under construction are Metro Line 12, Line 13 and Line 16. To date, there is no Line 14 or 15.
> 
> Line 12, linking the northeast of the city to the southwest, will have 32 stations along 40 kilometers, passing through eight districts. Passengers will be able to transfer to Line 1 and 13 at Hanzhong Road Station, to Line 2 and 13 at Nanjing Road W. Station and to Line 1 and 10 at Shaanxi Road S. Station.
> 
> Line 13 will include 14 stations, with 16 kilometers of track stretching from suburban Jiading District to downtown Jing'an District. Three stops on Line 13 were in operation during the World Expo last year. The full line is expected to include this section, and extend to Pudong New Area, said the authority.
> 
> Line 16, which will have 13 stations, will mainly operate in Pudong's Nanhui area. It will connect to Line 2 and 7 at Longyang Road and end at Lingang New City.
> 
> In addition to the three new lines, the authority is extending Line 11. Its 21-kilometer second phase stretches from Jiangsu Road Station, crossing the Huangpu River and linking to Pudong's Luoshan Road Station.
> 
> The extension, which includes 13 stops, will ease pressure on Line 2 to Pudong, said officials. Passengers can transit to Line 6 and 8 at Pudong's Jiyang Road Station.
> 
> Panoramic View
> 
> To view a panoramic map of Shanghai's Metro system, visit http://xpo.sh/metro.
> 
> 
> Source:　http://www.shanghaidaily.com/nsp/Metro/2011/03/02/Work%2Bon%2B3%2BMetro%2Blines%2Bbegins/


with line maps



ANR said:


> By Zha Minjie
> 2011-3-2
> shanghaidaily.com
> 
> WORK is under way on a new round of Metro construction that will see three new lines created and another extended, the subway authority announced yesterday. By 2014, the city should have 14 lines with a network of more than 500 kilometers of track, said Shanghai Shentong Metro Group. Among the projects under construction are Metro Line 12, Line 13 and Line 16. To date, there is no Line 14 or 15.
> 
> Line 12, linking the northeast of the city to the southwest, will have 32 stations along 40 kilometers, passing through eight districts. Passengers will be able to transfer to Line 1 and 13 at Hanzhong Road Station, to Line 2 and 13 at Nanjing Road W. Station and to Line 1 and 10 at Shaanxi Road S. Station.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Line 13 will include 14 stations, with 16 kilometers of track stretching from suburban Jiading District to downtown Jing'an District. Three stops on Line 13 were in operation during the World Expo last year. The full line is expected to include this section, and extend to Pudong New Area, said the authority.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Line 16, which will have 13 stations, will mainly operate in Pudong's Nanhui area. It will connect to Line 2 and 7 at Longyang Road and end at Lingang New City.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In addition to the three new lines, the authority is extending Line 11. Its 21-kilometer second phase stretches from Jiangsu Road Station, crossing the Huangpu River and linking to Pudong's Luoshan Road Station. The extension, which includes 13 stops, will ease pressure on Line 2 to Pudong, said officials. Passengers can transit to Line 6 and 8 at Pudong's Jiyang Road Station.


----------



## big-dog

That will be funny...

*Pink subway trains will run on line 2 to celebrate 3.8 Women's Day*










source


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

big-dog said:


> That will be funny...
> 
> *Pink subway trains will run on line 2 to celebrate 3.8 Women's Day*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> source


Don't they have the entirety of line 6 to be pink for this?


----------



## Pansori

Is pink associated with women? I thought it's more relevant for identifying gays.


----------



## kix111

^^No purple is for gay??



hmmwv said:


> I would argue that Line 7 is becoming increasingly popular, it links Shanghai University and the former Expo area, which in the future will become a huge development. The line also runs through Putuo District and Jinan District, and has multiple interchanges with popular lines such as 1 and 2. I agree with you on Line 8 though, I only rode it a couple times but what a mess.


Almost every single line interchanges with line 2 or 1 in Shanghai, so that doesnt really make line 7 special. Line 7 takes a way too huge bend in order to reach Pudong from Jinan Temple, so i dont think line 7 would be passenger's first choice.

Yes maybe line 7 will have quite a few passengers from Dongan Road to Jinan Temple where it undergoes a lot of line transactions but this will only be temporary.

As of last week, i took line 7 to the Expo site, there was only 4 person including me on the whole train when i went on on its final station Huamu road in Pudong. Half of the seats are still empty by the time it reached Yaohua road.



The Chemist said:


> Line 6 is a disaster too. I was on it last weekend and it was packed to the gills.


Line 6 is packed due to the bags and luggages passengers are bringing with them. Line 6 runs mostly outside the inner ring, so probably a lot of foreign Chinese workers take this line.


----------



## Woonsocket54

those maps are wonderful and all, but surely they don't leave the trains in a "parking lot"! Perhaps "yard" or "depot" would be more appropriate terminology.


----------



## big-dog

today's line 2










source


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## kix111

^^what about the newer trains of line 2 (the bkack and green one)?


----------



## dennis.deng

Does anybody know details or even the timetable for the commuter rail from Shanghai South station to Linggang in Pudong?


----------



## dennis.deng

*Goint to Linggang*

...


----------



## fragel

so how many lines are going to reach the Disney park? Line2, 11, any more?


----------



## Woonsocket54

http://www.exploremetro.com/blog/new-splash-jiyang-road-station-opens


> *New splash: Jiyang Road station opens*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shanghai Metro riders now have a new station to interchange at, with the opening of Jiyang Road, which provides a connection between Line 6 and Line 8.
> 
> Jiyang Road is the location for the Oriental Sports Center, which will be the venue for the 2011 World Aquatics Championship. (You can also enter a competition to come up with a nickname for the Center).
> 
> Jiyang Road is a cross-platform interchange, so you’ll be able to change lines by simply crossing the platform.
> 
> We’ll have updates available for our online metro map and iPhone app shortly.
> 
> See the location of Jiyang Road below!


----------



## ovem

Is there an animated gif map showing the metro network's history?


----------



## Abhishek901

That would be a good thing if it exists. Wikipedia has a similar gif map for Beijing subway.


----------



## fragel

Line 11 new station opened on April 26th

*East Changji Road Station*

by 捷捷的地铁站


----------



## fragel

Woonsocket54 said:


> http://www.exploremetro.com/blog/new-splash-jiyang-road-station-opens


More pics of the newly opened *Jiyang Road Station*
by 捷捷的地铁站


----------



## fragel

BTW, 捷捷的地铁站, a train driver on line 11 and metro fan (naturally), is updating the photos he took of 269 Shanghai Metro stations on his weibo.
*
Line 2 stations*

*East Xujing* large version









*Hongqiao Railway Station* large version









*Hongqiao Airport Terminal 2* large version









*Songhong Road* large version


----------



## fragel

by 捷捷的地铁站

*Beixinjing* large version









*Loushanguan Road* large version









*Zhongshan Park*
large version









large version


----------



## fragel

by 捷捷的地铁站

*Jingan Temple*
large version









large version









*West Nanjing Road* large version









*People Square*
large version









large version









*East Nanjing Road*

large version









large version


----------



## fragel

by 捷捷的地铁站

*Dongchang Road* large version








*
Century Ave*
large version









large version








*
Shanghai Science and Technology Museum*
large version









large version


----------



## fragel

by 捷捷的地铁站
*
Longyang Road*
large version









large version









large version









*Zhangjiang*

(old) large version 









(new) large version


----------



## fragel

by 捷捷的地铁站

*Jinke Road*
large version









large version









*Guanglan Road* large version









*Middle Chuangxin Road* large version









*East Huaxia Road* large version 









*Chuansha* large version


----------



## fragel

by 捷捷的地铁站

*Lingkong Road*
large version









large version









*Yuandong Avenue*
large version









large version









*Haitiansan Road *

large version









large version


----------



## manrush

I never really understood why Shanghai chose the translohr concept for its tramway.


----------



## fragel

Newly opened Jiyang Road Station renamed as *Oriental Sports Center Station*









source: Shanghai No.4 Metro Operation Co. official weibo


----------



## fragel

Construction of Line 11 Anting-Huaqiao section to start next month


> 11号线花桥段拟下月开工 安亭-花桥全程仅需3元
> http://www.sina.com.cn 2011年05月05日08:08 东方早报
> 为推进上海轨道交通11号线北段延伸工程(安亭站-花桥站)前期工作开展，相关部门近日组织召开了11号线北段(安亭站-花桥站)前期施工推进会，为计划6月工程开始施工做准备。
> ...
> 
> 据悉，该段开通后，11号线车票将统一纳入上海的票务清分系统。根据目前上海地铁收费标准，不超过6公里的单程车票价格最低3元，而11号线安亭站-花桥站全长约6公里，届时安亭-花桥全程可能仅需3元车费。


read more


----------



## foxmulder

I congratulate that train driver


----------



## Abhishek901

How much of Shanghai metro is underground and how much is elevated (including the lines under cinstruction)?


----------



## kix111

Rather than decorating those rural stations like the interior of a five star hotel, i would rather have them putting some safety doors on some of the more crowded station like this. I believe Line 2 doesnt even have safety doors in Peoples Square.


----------



## fragel

kix111 said:


> Rather than decorating those rural stations like the interior of a five star hotel, i would rather have them putting some safety doors on some of the more crowded station like this. I believe Line 2 doesnt even have safety doors in Peoples Square.



I am not sure what you are talking about. Do you mean that people's square station on line 2 doesn't have gates like Longyang Road station does? well, it has better: 

People's Square Station, line 2 source









If you are asking why they don't install full-height platform screening doors in that particular station, well that is such an old repetitive question that most people won't even care to answer it in local metro fan forums. It is because that the ventilation systems of those old stations on Line 2 won't work with full-height PSDs. it is not that they don't want to. 

ps: a five star hotel with interior decoration on the level of those stations must be the shittiest one.


----------



## Northridge

Great thread. read the thread back to back. Whats the rider ship number like now. I haven't seen any numbers since the expo.


----------



## saiho

according to wikipedia

Average Daily ridership: 5.55 million (Jan-May 2011) 
Annual ridership:	2 billion (2010)
which makes it 4th busiest in the world, though i'd give it 3-4 years and it will become the busiest...
unless Beijing suddenly comes in and takes the cake.

is there any news on Jinshan Branch Line (line 22) apparently its supposed to open this year. i heard its going to have a more mainline/commuter rail character and express/local services. which is good, having been to Hong Kong and Tokyo. shanghai and other Chinese cities chould use some more regional commuter rail with metro characteristics like JR lines or the MTR east rail line.


----------



## CNGL

I read somewhere that line 22 will be completed in August (Opening some months later), and will go up to 160 km/h . That's faster than any metro on the world!!! And as fast as a regional train! (At least in Spain...)
And here's the scheduled opening timetable from Wikipedia. There are some sections that have been delayed:
By the end of 2012: 
Line 8 Aerospace Museum-Huizhen (Interesting, they will build this in only a year since it's about to start construction)
Line 9 Songjiang Xingcheng-Songjiang S Railway Station
Line 11 Jiangsu Rd-Luoshan Rd & Anting-Huaqiao (So we could travel by metro from Jiangsu Road to Jiangsu Province)
Line 12 Jinhai Rd-Dalian Rd
Line 13 Huajiang Rd-Jinshanjiang Rd
Line 16 (Former line 21) Longyang Rd-Lingang New City
By the end of 2014:
Line 5 Dongchuang Rd-Xidu
Line 12 Dalian Rd-Qixin Rd
Line 13 Jinshajiang Rd-Madang Rd and over the EXPO section to Changqing Rd
By the end of 2015:
Line 11 Luoshan Rd-Disneyland


----------



## napkcirtap

CNGL said:


> I read somewhere that line 22 will be completed in August (Opening some months later), and will go up to 160 km/h . That's faster than any metro on the world!!! And as fast as a regional train! (At least in Spain...)
> And here's the scheduled opening timetable from Wikipedia. There are some sections that have been delayed:
> By the end of 2012:
> Line 8 Aerospace Museum-Huizhen (Interesting, they will build this in only a year since it's about to start construction)
> Line 9 Songjiang Xingcheng-Songjiang S Railway Station
> Line 11 Jiangsu Rd-Luoshan Rd & Anting-Huaqiao (So we could travel by metro from Jiangsu Road to Jiangsu Province)
> Line 12 Jinhai Rd-Dalian Rd
> Line 13 Huajiang Rd-Jinshanjiang Rd
> Line 16 (Former line 21) Longyang Rd-Lingang New City
> By the end of 2014:
> Line 5 Dongchuang Rd-Xidu
> Line 12 Dalian Rd-Qixin Rd
> Line 13 Jinshajiang Rd-Madang Rd and over the EXPO section to Changqing Rd
> By the end of 2014:
> Line 11 Luoshan Rd-Disneyland


line 22 is regional rail/commuter rail, not metro or subway.


----------



## saiho

is line 22 going to be very commuter rail/regional rail in character like Beijing's S2 line or more metro-like such as Korail's urban commuter network in Seoul?


----------



## Northridge

Just got home from Shanghai, and I must say that the metro system in Shanghai is one of the best I've ever used.

To me, it seems like they are planning for many lines, due to the big gap between stations. This will call for fast and efficient service, but more interchange. 
I had some trips across town, and I found quickly the best route, but I must admit that the first time I used a more complicated route. Maybe it was quicker/shorter(well, shorter it was for sure), but the route through century avenue offered a less hassle free trip.

For me, this system is worth the trip to Shanghai alone. The trains are not as high capacity and the intervals are not as high in Tokyo(except Ginza line), but the system in Shanghai is really great. 

I wonder why they only build for 6 car trains on most lines though?
I can also criticize the low frequency on the trains, but come on, everyone can wait 5 mins? 

Never tried the metro in Moscow Though.


----------



## Pansori

^^
5 minutes? Is that on all lines? What about peak times? And what kind of signaling is used in Shanghai? Does it use ATO?


----------



## djm160190

Pansori said:


> ^^
> 5 minutes? Is that on all lines? What about peak times? And what kind of signaling is used in Shanghai? Does it use ATO?


In peak times on the busier lines (1,2,8 etc) it's more like a frequency of every 3 minutes. Not sure what signalling is used.


----------



## The Chemist

CNGL said:


> I read somewhere that line 22 will be completed in August (Opening some months later), and will go up to 160 km/h . That's faster than any metro on the world!!! And as fast as a regional train! (At least in Spain...)


Not sure if it'll be completed this month. I have seen the current state of Line 22 and while the rails are finished, they still have a lot of work to do to finish the catenary system - the towers are up in most places, but the overhead wires have yet to be strung. I don't know how long that will take to do, though.


----------



## Abhishek901

djm160190 said:


> In peak times on the busier lines (1,2,8 etc) it's more like a frequency of every 3 minutes. Not sure what signalling is used.


Is peak frequency 3 min because of lack of trains (because of delay in train delivery, etc) or is it because signalling system is not equipped to handle more than 20 trains per hour? 

As far as I know, all modern metro systems are capable of handling 30 or more trains per hour. Shanghai metro might also have capacity to handle such frequencies IMO.


----------



## Woonsocket54

The Chemist said:


> Not sure if it'll be completed this month. I have seen the current state of Line 22 and while the rails are finished, they still have a lot of work to do to finish the catenary system - the towers are up in most places, but the overhead wires have yet to be strung. I don't know how long that will take to do, though.


is line 22 sharing the line 1 right-of-way between Shanghai South and Xinzhuang?


----------



## The Chemist

Woonsocket54 said:


> is line 22 sharing the line 1 right-of-way between Shanghai South and Xinzhuang?


No. I expect it'll be sharing the right-of-way with the intercity trains out of Shanghai South, and following its own right-of-way at some point south of Xinzhuang.


----------



## ddes

I visited Shanghai 2 weeks ago, and I thought it was great too.

However, I didn't like that there weren't any diagonal lines, which makes transfers a little irritating.


----------



## hkskyline

*Metro braces itself for emergencies during typhoon*
Shanghai Daily
2011-8-5 

SHANGHAI Metro operator is taking precautionary measures to ensure the safety of Metro services during the typhoon period.

The Metro operator said when the wind reaches force 8 or 74 kilometers per hour, trains will shift from automatic to manual control so drivers can respond fast to emergencies. When the wind reaches force 10 or more, trains will pull into stations at a speed of 20kph. Metro Line 3 and Line 5 that run on the ground will likely to suspend their operation if wind is too strong.

Metro officials urged the public to pay attention to traffic report on its official website and make route changes accordingly.


----------



## napkcirtap

this is the map for subway service when typhoon hits shanghai. note the greyed lines are all out of service parts of lines that run above ground or at grade


----------



## Abhishek901

Btw, how much part of the network is underground and how much is elevated?


----------



## Falubaz

^^ Come on, this info u have on the map above.


----------



## Abhishek901

I don't think one can correctly guess just looking at this maze. I guess u/g portion would be 40-65% but I want to narrow down that range.


----------



## rubiksmaster123

Northridge said:


> This in not very uncommon on other systems?
> 
> I saw some fare dodgers when I was in Shanghai, more than in other cities besides Paris.
> I would guess that a low risk of being caught and the low fine is not helping.


This basically. They need to increase the fine so people will be scared to do it.


----------



## Pansori

Interestingly in some cities (e.g. most German cities that I have been to) have no ticket barriers in the stations at all and anyone with or without the ticket can enter a U-Bahn or S-Bahn train without obstacles. I don't know how common ticket controls are inside these trains in Germany but I have neever seen any (then again, I only made perhaps less than 50 journeys in total). 

The problem with additional controls is that it costs money and may be north worth it in financial terms. What matters is the conideration and culture of the society. People simply need to understand that this is not acceptable and that there is absolutely nothing to be proud of if you dodge a fare. If you can't afford it or just feel it's too expensive - ride a bicycle. That's what I do and feel very happy about it. It also helps to stay helathy and keep your body weight under control.


----------



## Attus

^^OFFtopic. Tecket checking in Germany is varying region by region. E.g. in Berlin you may ride S-Bahn twice a day for several years without being catched while e.g. in Freiburg you'd be fined in the first week for sure.


----------



## onthebund

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/?id=486348&type=Metro

New Metro link

2011-11-2 

A Metro-like system is expected to connect several large residential communities in Shanghai's suburban Minhang District. The new system will link to the southern end of Metro Line 8 at the Aerospace Museum Station, urban planners said. It will use rubber rather than iron wheels to cut noise disturbance for residents.


----------



## FabriFlorence

Attus said:


> ^^OFFtopic. Tecket checking in Germany is varying region by region. E.g. in Berlin you may ride S-Bahn twice a day for several years without being catched while e.g. in Freiburg you'd be fined in the first week for sure.


Ummm... are you sure? Last summer I went to Berlin for one week and I was cheked two times.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

onthebund said:


> http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/?id=486348&type=Metro
> 
> New Metro link
> 
> 2011-11-2
> 
> A Metro-like system is expected to connect several large residential communities in Shanghai's suburban Minhang District. The new system will link to the southern end of Metro Line 8 at the Aerospace Museum Station, urban planners said. It will use rubber rather than iron wheels to cut noise disturbance for residents.


So this is pretty much a sub-system for Minhang? That's pretty epic, any sources for planned routes, rolling stock, construction time-line, etc.? I'm surprised there's not more hype about something as big as this, just a couple of liners in a Shanghai daily article? I would've expected this to be front-page material


----------



## rubiksmaster123

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> So this is pretty much a sub-system for Minhang? That's pretty epic, any sources for planned routes, rolling stock, construction time-line, etc.? I'm surprised there's not more hype about something as big as this, just a couple of liners in a Shanghai daily article? I would've expected this to be front-page material


Yep and now shanghai has a suburban system ;D


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

rubiksmaster123 said:


> Yep and now shanghai has a suburban system ;D


...no it doesn't... not yet at least


----------



## rubiksmaster123

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> ...no it doesn't... not yet at least


err well yeah. of course but it's building one...


----------



## nouveau.ukiyo

Any info on this suburban system? Is there a separate thread for that?

I like to see Chinese cities develop rapid transit systems similar to Tokyo with a solid suburban rail system able to get people in and out of cities quickly and also able to get people from one side of the city to the other quickly. It seems like the majority of construction is urban rail. I'd hate to see Chinese cities develop like Seoul, which has a great urban heavy rail system but no rapid suburban system and few rapid/express trains. So going from one side of the city to the other, or one suburb to another takes forever because you have to make frequent local stops on heavy rail lines.


----------



## Woonsocket54

It's not a "suburban system." It looks like just a local system to link to the last station of the metro, kind of like those metromovers in Singapore that link to Punggol and Sengkang station. It doesn't go downtown.

The only info we have in English is this newspaper article. Nothing else is available online.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

nouveau.ukiyo said:


> Any info on this suburban system? Is there a separate thread for that?
> 
> I like to see Chinese cities develop rapid transit systems similar to Tokyo with a solid suburban rail system able to get people in and out of cities quickly and also able to get people from one side of the city to the other quickly.


Or better yet, like NYC with three different suburban rail systems, one for upstate Jiangsu, one for northeastern Zhejiang suburbs and one for Pudong. 

A Chongming railroad similar to LIRR would be awesome too.

Yeah the worst would be for it to turn out like Singapore or Seoul where you have this oversized metro system serving as both suburban rail and rapid transit which makes it difficult to commute distances >20 miles.


----------



## onthebund

from www.gaoloumi.com

Photo by Mori

2020 Shanghai Metro Network 21lines 1051km


----------



## Falubaz

Is there any chance to get the bigger version of that map?


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

Here is another one, I wonder if this is accurate and correct though.


----------



## NCT

^^ The above map is quite old - it still shows Line 20 as Qingpu Line; old plans for Lines 2 and 13, as well as an absence of extensions of Line 5.


----------



## Pansori

Are there still plans to build maglev line to Hongqiao hub?


----------



## onthebund

VECTROTALENZIS said:


> Here is another one, I wonder if this is accurate and correct though.


Mori's pic is the latest version.


----------



## NCT

Pansori said:


> Are there still plans to build maglev line to Hongiao hub?


Heaven knows, it's a bit of a taboo subject to be honest. I'm not even sure if the route is being safeguarded.


----------



## nouveau.ukiyo

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> Yeah the worst would be for it to turn out like Singapore or Seoul where you have this oversized metro system serving as both suburban rail and rapid transit which makes it difficult to commute distances >20 miles.


Judging by all these maps, it looks like this is where many Chinese cities, including Shangahai are heading...

How many lines have express services? If you live in the outer suburbs and work in the city center, it'd make sense if there are express trains available. Otherwise one would have to make 20+ stops one way, making commutes from the outer suburbs long...eventually we may see a scenario where living near a high speed rail station like Nanjing is a faster commute into Shanghai then for people living in a Shanghai suburb.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

ddes said:


> I thought it was cheaper to buy the Shanghai Public Transportation Card. I was there for 6 days back in July, and I'm not too sure if the staff were being nice or anything, but they'd mysteriously add 10 Yuan to it for a total of 30 Yuan despite the fact that I only gave 20 Yuan.


Well, I've read there is a discount for some sums but I don't remember. Anyqay, SPT card is not so cheap as it is not unlimited. 2 days ago I did over 10 rides and it would have cost much more than 18 yuan even if I had used a SPTC.

Now, some pictures of mine. Many more will come bit by bit.

Hongqiao Railway station, right under the station and near the airport
. Line 10. Unfortunately, I didn't know about the rolling stock.


Turnstiles.



http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-city-dream/view/466472/

A special turnstile for disabled people. By the way, almost every station is aquipped with one or two turnstiles that allow to use NFC technology that is to say you can use your cellphone to enter. Just like in Japan.


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-city-dream/view/466473/

There are different types of turnstiles throughout the whole system, some feature black and white screens.


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-city-dream/view/466474/


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-city-dream/view/466475/

Turnstiles for getting out:


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-city-dream/view/466476/

Two lines come to the railway station and airport. Both are underground.:


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-city-dream/view/466477/


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-city-dream/view/466478/

To be continued.

5.01.2012.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Is there any information on the rolling stock on each line? There are different manufacturers and different models, I noticed at least Bobmbardier, Siemens and Alstom.


----------



## The Chemist

^I don't know the names of the models, but I can at least tell you the following:
Line 1 - Siemens (old), Alstom (new), all 8 car trains 
Line 2 - Siemens (old), Alstom (new), all 8 car trains (except for Guanglan Road - Pudong Airport, which uses 4 car Alstom trains of the same type as the 8 car trains on the rest of the line)
Line 3 - Alstom, all 6 car trains
Line 4 - Siemens, all 6 car trains
Line 5 - Alstom, all 4 car trains (no walk through, narrow)
Line 6 - Alstom, all 4 car trains (walk through, narrow)
Line 7 - Bombardier, all 6 car trains 
Line 8 - Alstom, all 6 car trains (narrow)
Line 9 - Bombardier, all 6 car trains
Line 10 - Alstom, all 6 car trains
Line 11 - Siemens, 6 car trains (?) - Not sure of this, as I have never taken Line 11


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## Abhishek901

Are the trains in these lines operating at their maximum length or some of these lines have scope of further lengthening the trains.


----------



## Geography

What are the qualitative differences between different manufacturers' train cars?


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## _Night City Dream_

The Chemist said:


> ^I don't know the names of the models, but I can at least tell you the following:
> Line 1 - Siemens (old), Alstom (new), all 8 car trains
> Line 2 - Siemens (old), Alstom (new), all 8 car trains (except for Guanglan Road - Pudong Airport, which uses 4 car Alstom trains of the same type as the 8 car trains on the rest of the line)
> Line 3 - Alstom, all 6 car trains
> Line 4 - Siemens, all 6 car trains
> Line 5 - Alstom, all 4 car trains (no walk through, narrow)
> Line 6 - Alstom, all 4 car trains (walk through, narrow)
> Line 7 - Bombardier, all 6 car trains
> Line 8 - Alstom, all 6 car trains (narrow)
> Line 9 - Bombardier, all 6 car trains
> Line 10 - Alstom, all 6 car trains
> Line 11 - Siemens, 6 car trains (?) - Not sure of this, as I have never taken Line 11


Thanks anyway but I've got some questions.
On line 1 in 2006 there were also "new" trains, this time I didn't see them at all. They looked more like modern German trains, not Alstom... I will upload a photo to show. Now, there are new Alstom cars, as you said. But those trains I'm talking about were different from all other trains throughout the system.

On line 3 Alstom trains have a special and unique front part.

On lines 6 and 8 there are two types of Alstom trains, they have much in common except some details inside and outside.

And Alstom trains on line 1 and 2 are the same but very different from those on line 6 and 8.

Alstom trains on line 10 are different from the other Alstom trains in Shanghai.


----------



## NCT

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Thanks anyway but I've got some questions.
> On line 1 in 2006 there were also "new" trains, this time I didn't see them at all. They looked more like modern German trains, not Alstom... I will upload a photo to show. Now, there are new Alstom cars, as you said. But those trains I'm talking about were different from all other trains throughout the system.
> 
> On line 3 Alstom trains have a special and unique front part.
> 
> On lines 6 and 8 there are two types of Alstom trains, they have much in common except some details inside and outside.
> 
> And Alstom trains on line 1 and 2 are the same but very different from those on line 6 and 8.
> 
> Alstom trains on line 10 are different from the other Alstom trains in Shanghai.


As The Chemist explained, Lines 5, 6 and 8 have a narrow loading gauge (same track gauge though) so use narrower trains (size C in China). The rest of the network (so far anyway) use standard width trains (size A in China). The Alstoms on Lines 1, 2, 3 and 10 are essentially the same. Line 3's stock appears to have a different front end but that's main due to the different (but rather smart IMO) livery, and also the absence of an emergency door.

The 'new' train you saw on Line 1 which were not the Alstoms were most probably the Bombardier trains which were subsequently cascaded onto Line 9.


----------



## The Chemist

NCT said:


> The 'new' train you saw on Line 1 which were not the Alstoms were most probably the Bombardier trains which were subsequently cascaded onto Line 9.


Yep, that's what they were. I visited Shanghai on vacation in 2005 and they were running the old style Bombardier trains on Line 1 at that stage too. Those have now all been moved to Line 9. 

As for length, all lines are operating at their maximum length except for the eastern section of Line 2 (Guanglan Road - Pudong Airport), which has currently been completed for 4-car platforms, but has provision (roughed in stations, etc) to be extended to 8 car platforms when the demand requires it.

Line 3 stock also looks different from 1, 2, and 10 due to the mirrored coating on the windows, necessary to keep the trains cool inside in the summer as the whole line is above ground.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

But on line 9 I didnt't see this time old trains. To me, Bombardier trains on line 9 look even more to date than Alstom trains on M8.


----------



## Abhishek901

Lines 1 and 2 have capacity for 8 car trains but subsequent lines have capacity for 6 car trains. Is it because they are using better signalling system in new lines through which one can increase capacity by increasing frequency to very high level or is it that they felt that 8 car capacity is more than the requirement.


----------



## NCT

Abhishek901 said:


> Lines 1 and 2 have capacity for 8 car trains but subsequent lines have capacity for 6 car trains. Is it because they are using better signalling system in new lines through which one can increase capacity by increasing frequency to very high level or is it that they felt that 8 car capacity is more than the requirement.


Mainly the latter. I guess it's true to an extent that Lines 1 and 2 serve the most densely populated as well as the most central areas, and that other lines are unlikely to experience the levels of loadings those two do.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Abhishek901 said:


> Lines 1 and 2 have capacity for 8 car trains but subsequent lines have capacity for 6 car trains. Is it because they are using better signalling system in new lines through which one can increase capacity by increasing frequency to very high level or is it that they felt that 8 car capacity is more than the requirement.


Frequency in Shanghai metro even in rush hours is just awful. And I guess, the commercial speed is rather low as a train spends too much time at stations.


----------



## peacedot

Look forward to having some express lines in Shanghai Subway. Maybe that's NYC is the only 7/24 in the world?


----------



## Abhishek901

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Frequency in Shanghai metro even in rush hours is just awful. And I guess, the commercial speed is rather low as a train spends too much time at stations.


Is that because of lack of trains, or because of old signalling system which does not allow greater frequencies.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

peacedot said:


> Look forward to having some express lines in Shanghai Subway.


Shall line 22 be an express line?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Abhishek901 said:


> Is that because of lack of trains, or because of old signalling system which does not allow greater frequencies.


I don't think so. Trains spend too much time after stop and before opening the doors, some 15 seconds. Then, after closing doors it may pass 20 - 30 seconds before it sets off. I didn't understand at first why it is so slowly, then I noticed that the driver goes out of the cabin at every station. He operates the doors of the station as well. After closing both doors, he shows 4 sides with his arm and only after that gets in the cabin. So, I guess, the average speed in Shanghai metro is relatively LOW.

The way from Hongqiao railway station to Dapuqiao took some 45 - 50 minutes which is more that the way from Hangzhou to Shanghai-Hongqiao on CRH.


----------



## NCT

There had been some nasty accidents on the line 2 which is the line without the platform screen doors, involving passengers being caught between the moving train and the platform barriers. These accidents made Shanghai Metro go into an 'elf and safety overdrive that includes those ridiculous arm movements the drivers now have to do.

Frequencies are notoriously poor. It's partly due to lack of trains, but signalling isn't that good either - ~ 3 trains every 10 minutes on Lines 1 and 2 is about the maximum that can be achieved.


----------



## hmmwv

Yeah I think the old signaling and the lack of screen door is a problem, I remembered during the World Expo in peak hours Line 7 was able to get trains to the expo park every 90 seconds. After all line 2 is 12 years old and is due to an upgrade.


----------



## The Chemist

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Frequency in Shanghai metro even in rush hours is just awful. And I guess, the commercial speed is rather low as a train spends too much time at stations.


Hyperbole much? Yes, the frequency could be better, especially on Lines 1 and 2, but it's not 'awful' by any stretch of the imagination. I've ridden on most lines at rush hour, and the frequencies that are currently used on the lines with wide stock are pretty much capable of handling the load (with the exception of the aforementioned Lines 1 and 2). Lines 6 and 8 definitely need higher frequencies, though, due to their narrow stock. 

As far as dwell times at stations, it happens rather infrequently that the train sits at a station for a while, but it's pretty rare in my experience. Honestly, I've never found the Shanghai Metro to be any worse in service than say, the London Underground, in terms of journey times and frequencies.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Well, I don't compare it to London, it's ridiculous. London Tube is not convenient, or comfortable at all compared to Shanghai metro.

However, I compare dwell tim at stations in Shanghai with the same parameters in Moscow or Paris. In Paris, some lines are equipped with screen door platforms, but trains do not stay for so long.

By reducing this along with frequency, Shanghai metro can easily increase its capacity without need to build new lines.


----------



## NCT

It wasn't so much that they underestimated patronage on Line 8. At the time China had no capability to build its own type-A stock, and there was at least a 3-year wait with any foreign manufacturer. Shanghai wanted to build its own type-A trains but central government (National Development and Reform Commission to be specific) wouldn't allow because there were already plans for China South and China North to import the technology and assembly lines of type-A stock. Shanghai had to make do with importing technology for type-C stock and hoping to adapt it to have type-A stock capability. They had to build about 200 trains for it to be worthwhile so a decision was made to let Line 8 use type-C stock. Word on the grapevine is that all Line 8 tunnels and stations were actually built to accommodate type-A trains.


----------



## hmmwv

But both Line 1 and 2 were using A trains, so why can't Line 8 get the train at that time? Isn't the 1970's train on Beijing Metro actually has A train width?


----------



## Gag Halfrunt

(Deleted message - I found an answer to my question.)


----------



## hkskyline

*Suzhou Creek cruises to make return*
Shanghai Daily
Apr 18, 2012

SHANGHAI will restore Suzhou Creek cruises by April 28, offering views of historic and modern buildings on both sides of the river, officials said yesterday, after the city halted the trips for a year due to dredge work.

The new cruise route will be extended to 19 kilometers from the former 10 kilometers - from the Danba Road Dock to the Waibaidu Bridge in Huangpu District, said the cruise company. The route, crossing six Shanghai districts, will last about 90 minutes.

"We are building the Oriental Seine here," said Chen Xiuping, director of the city maritime administration office, which will supervise the operation.

Chen said the waterway is deeper and cleaner after the year-long dredging that removed silt.

More than 10 new docks will be built for passengers to get off to visit buildings on both sides of the river, said the maritime authority.


----------



## NCT

hmmwv said:


> But both Line 1 and 2 were using A trains, so why can't Line 8 get the train at that time? Isn't the 1970's train on Beijing Metro actually has A train width?


The first batches of trains for Lines 1 and 2 were imports with orders placed ages ago. There was one further order for Line 1 that was refused by central government, and it was only after an accident at People Square due to overcrowding did they divert a Guangzhou order to Shanghai (the next Shanghai order went to Guangzhou obviously).


----------



## zergcerebrates

hkskyline said:


> *Fine Metro litterbugs, say readers in poll*
> Shanghai Daily
> 2012-3-5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HEFTY fines for litterbugs and a ban on eating in subway carriages are the best ways to tackle the growing litter problem on Metro trains, according to a Shanghai Daily survey.
> 
> Some 45 percent of more than 500 respondents in the online polls supported the idea of heavy fines for passengers who drop litter in subway trains.
> 
> And another 39 percent agreed with the proposition that eating should be banned on trains.
> 
> The Shanghai Metro operator reports that staff collect, on average, 100 kilograms of trash from trains every day - a figure that is rising.
> 
> The city did include a "no eating" proposal in its 2009 Metro regulation but this was never adopted due to difficulties with implementation.
> 
> However, the growing volume of trash has brought the issue to the fore once more.
> 
> According to the 2009 Metro regulation, eating and drinking is banned on trains and in stations. But it does not say how - or indeed if - commuters would be fined if caught.
> 
> As the regulation was never adopted effectively, snacking commuters are a familiar sight on trains - especially during morning rush hour.
> 
> "It's terrible when people eat breakfast next to you on the train," said Samuel Wen, a regular Metro commuter.
> 
> "The smell makes me feel uncomfortable and I'm always scared they might drop food or spill a drink on me, as the trains are far too crowded."
> 
> The Metro operator said there is no plan to implement a ban on eating on trains.
> 
> Meanwhile, although city laws state that litterbugs can be fined up to 200 yuan (US$32), very few have had to pay a penalty.
> 
> Local public sanitation authorities admitted they have fined virtually no one, saying it is a complicated process.
> 
> Audio or video evidence and formal fine bills are required, officials said.
> 
> But the growing quantity of litter has seen some commuters take their own initiative, uploading photographs of Metro litterbugs on to the Internet in the hope that public condemnation will shame them into changing their ways.
> 
> Other possible deterrents found little favour with survey respondents. Only 10 percent thought hiring more cleaners would improve the situation.
> 
> And only 6 percent called for extra surveillance cameras.


Shanghai metro needs to get some expert advice from Hong Kong or especially from Singapore on how to deal with litterbugs. Seriously how hard is it to fine people, many people need jobs in China anyways just hire more staff. The fines can be used to pay for their salaries,and in China theres cameras everywhere evidences are easily obtainable. Heavy fine is the only way to prevent litter bugs. Get their ID card, address and a bill, failure to pay fine will get you summoned to court + further fine and one week jail, lets see if they'll learn their lesson. If Shanghai really wants to do something they could of, they're just slacking off when it comes to sanitary isssues.


----------



## hmmwv

NCT said:


> The first batches of trains for Lines 1 and 2 were imports with orders placed ages ago. There was one further order for Line 1 that was refused by central government, and it was only after an accident at People Square due to overcrowding did they divert a Guangzhou order to Shanghai (the next Shanghai order went to Guangzhou obviously).


I see, so now the A train supply has been resolved, theoretically Line 8 can upgrade to A train if they want, right? Line 7 runs pretty well with CNR Changchun Bombardier's A train.


----------



## NCT

hmmwv said:


> I see, so now the A train supply has been resolved, theoretically Line 8 can upgrade to A train if they want, right? Line 7 runs pretty well with CNR Changchun Bombardier's A train.


If they decided the convert Line 8 then all the platforms need to be knocked back, which requires the whole line to be shut for a month or two. But yes theoretically I think it can be done.


----------



## hmmwv

IIRC Line 8 has curtain doors too so that's gonna be a rather costly and long shutdown, they can probably do it station by station. Use the night down time to remove the doors first, then shut down one station during each weekend and get it knocked back and some sort of temporary extension installed to fill the gap. Once all stations are done remove the extension and roll the train. After service is resumed repeat the process of installing the curtain doors overnight.


----------



## Ashis Mitra

Shanghai’s subway system is growing continually year by year. The construction rate is very satisfactory. Although the first line opened in 1995, in 2011 there are 11 lines, and within this short 16 years they have overtaken London’s subway (underground), and now is the mostly expanded metro system of the world. I hope, if they continue the trend, Beijing’s metro network will be largest in the world after decades, As an Asian, and a neighbour of China, I’m quite proud that our neighbour is building metro very very fast.

Now we are expecting for opening of line 12, 13, 14, 16 & 22, which is planned to open before 31/12/20, and the extensions of line 5, 8, 9, & 11. There are some questions relating this – 

1)	How are constructions going on line 12, 13, 14, 16 & 22 & extensions of line 5, 8, 9, & 11? Has they started? Please post some photos.
2)	Why metro company is not planning opening new line 15, 17, 18, 19, 20 & 21 before, but they are jumping for opening line 16 & 22? Why this long jump?

Note: *The questions I wrote here were never asked before. If an urban-rail fan will do it, I’ll not repeat.*


----------



## napkcirtap

Ashis Mitra said:


> 1)	How are constructions going on line 12, 13, 14, 16 & 22 & extensions of line 5, 8, 9, & 11? Has they started? Please post some photos.
> 2)	Why metro company is not planning opening new line 15, 17, 18, 19, 20 & 21 before, but they are jumping for opening line 16 & 22? Why this long jump?
> 
> Note: *The questions I wrote here were never asked before. If an urban-rail fan will do it, I’ll not repeat.*


construction speeds have drastically slowed after the 2010 EXPO. according to official news sites, line 16(11South) will start running in mid 2013, and construction on lines 9 (Southern extension), 12 and 13 will start in 2014.


----------



## NCT

Ashis Mitra said:


> Now we are expecting for opening of line 12, 13, 14, 16 & 22, which is planned to open before 31/12/20, and the extensions of line 5, 8, 9, & 11. There are some questions relating this –
> 
> 1)	How are constructions going on line 12, 13, 14, 16 & 22 & extensions of line 5, 8, 9, & 11? Has they started? Please post some photos.
> 2)	Why metro company is not planning opening new line 15, 17, 18, 19, 20 & 21 before, but they are jumping for opening line 16 & 22? Why this long jump?
> 
> Note: *The questions I wrote here were never asked before. If an urban-rail fan will do it, I’ll not repeat.*


1) Construction is well underway for Lines 12, 13, 16 and 22 and extention of Line 11 - expect them to open within the next couple of years or so. I'm not entirely sure about the progress of the other extensions without doing some digging. Line 14 is in the long term plan, and construction might start in 2014.

2) Priorities change over time due to local geography, and line numbers don't always change in response to opening order. That said, lines 16 and 17 are what used to be the 21 and 20 - the numbers were swapped becasue the old 16 and 17 were in the very-long-term plan. Lines 15 to 18 are pretty much set in stone.


----------



## Silly_Walks

> As an Asian, and a neighbour of China, I’m quite proud that our neighbour is building metro very very fast


This shit again...

As a non-Asian, and also living on the same planet as China, I'm quite proud that our neighbor is building metro very very fast, even though I did nothing to be proud of.

Pride comes from some kind of achievement. I think you mean you are amazed or in awe of their great achievement.


----------



## hkskyline

*More trains on Line 8*
Shanghai Daily
2012-5-3 

CITY traffic authorities said yesterday that six more subway trains will be added to Metro Line 8 to raise its capacity by the end of this year.

The operator had already put into use three new trains along Line 8 by the end of last month. However, the operator fears that "the rise in capacity can hardly meet the increasing passenger volume."

Also, interval times between trains will be shortened with the introduction of the new trains during rush hours, the operator said.

Passenger restriction measures will continue at some crowded Metro stations, however.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

hkskyline said:


> *More trains on Line 8*
> Shanghai Daily
> 2012-5-3
> 
> CITY traffic authorities said yesterday that six more subway trains will be added to Metro Line 8 to raise its capacity by the end of this year.
> 
> The operator had already put into use three new trains along Line 8 by the end of last month. However, the operator fears that "the rise in capacity can hardly meet the increasing passenger volume."
> 
> Also, interval times between trains will be shortened with the introduction of the new trains during rush hours, the operator said.
> 
> Passenger restriction measures will continue at some crowded Metro stations, however.


Perhaps its time to dig parallel tunnels for express services?


----------



## FM 2258

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> Perhaps its time to dig parallel tunnels for express services?


Sounds like a good idea. I have faith this can be done quickly because it's China. :cheers:


----------



## napkcirtap

FM 2258 said:


> Sounds like a good idea. I have faith this can be done quickly because it's China. :cheers:


you should also have faith since its china that no officials cares about sardine commutes


----------



## skyridgeline

napkcirtap said:


> you should also have faith since its china that no officials cares about sardine commutes


And you should know that there has never been any profitable/feasible urban/metro "express service" in the history of the world!

People are free to live and/or setup shop in Ningbo?


----------



## Woonsocket54

I guess it was reported recently that Line 22 will begin testing next month...

http://www.echinacities.com/shangha...i-metro-line-22-begins-test-runs-in-june.html


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

skyridgeline said:


> And you should know that there has never been any profitable/feasible urban/metro "express service" in the history of the world!
> 
> People are free to live and/or setup shop in Ningbo?


profitable no

feasible... ever heard of the 2, 3, A, B, D, E, F, Q, 4, 5 <7>, <6> trains in NY? imagine shutting those down all express service and only allowing local service for a week. the city would be insufferable (though still functional)

its time shanghai officials seriously start contemplating parallel tracks for line 8 and line 6 (which is supposedly just as bad if not worse than line 8). it could possibly run like the 4, 5, 6 in the upper east side where you have local trains making all stops on the upper level while express trains only making certain stops on the lower level.


----------



## The Chemist

Woonsocket54 said:


> I guess it was reported recently that Line 22 will begin testing next month...
> 
> http://www.echinacities.com/shangha...i-metro-line-22-begins-test-runs-in-june.html


I can believe it. I was recently out on my bike in Jinshan district and saw the line - it looks just about ready to go. They were working on finishing touches on the station I saw, but the tracks and catenary look complete. 

Definitely looks much more like a commuter line than a Metro line, though.


----------



## Ashis Mitra

I heard some plans about extension of the tram network. The next phase of the project is the Zhangjiang tram division multiple-phase construction, a project in the east Greenfield Road, from Zu Chong Zhi Road (Shanghai Metro Line 2 Zhangjiang Hi-tech station), west to Osmanthus Road Autumn Road, which covers a distance of about 10 km, with a total of 15 stops, 1 depot. It will be followed by an extension in the direction of Tang Zhen-Qing. Could anybody post a map, about the extension, and some more details?

Is there any official website of Shanghai’s new rubber tired tram (translohr)?


----------



## Ashis Mitra

Could anyone say which areas are now served by metro, served by tram before their closure in 1970?


----------



## everywhere

> THE city's first railway-turned subway, Metro Line 22, will get its first test runs by the end of this month.
> 
> Fares are expected to be set at 7-10 yuan (US$1.1-1.6), based on prices of current bus services in the area. Fare details and timetables are yet to be disclosed, officials said, but the line is expected to go into public use in October.
> 
> The subway, linking downtown to suburban Jinshan District in the south, will have two services - non-stop and one with stations. It will be the first Metro line in Jinshan and is expected to carry 5,000 passengers a day into initial service.
> 
> Line 22, also known as the Jinshan Railway Line, stretches from Shanghai South Railway Station to Jinshan New Town at the city's south end.
> 
> The non-stop model will take half an hour along the route while the slower one will have nine stops and take about 45 minutes. The current bus lines take more than an hour to reach downtown from Jinshan.


http://www.shanghaidaily.com/nsp/Metro/2012/06/16/Railsubway+Line+22+to+get+first+try/





> THE first train for Metro Line 13, which is still under construction, arrived today from its manufacturing plant in Nanjing, capital of neighboring Jiangsu Province.
> 
> The six-car train will be used on the line after testing, said the Shanghai Metro operator.
> 
> Part of Metro Line 13 will undergo test runs by the end of this year. This section has seven stops, from Huajiang Road Station in northwest Jiading District to Jinshajiang Road Station in Putuo District. Test runs may start as early as October.
> 
> Passengers can transfer to Line 3 and Line 4 at Jinshajiang Road Station, said Shanghai Shentong Metro Group.
> 
> The first phase of Metro Line 13 will have 14 stations on a 16-kilometer route from Jiading to West Nanjing Road Station downtown where it connects with Metro Line 2.


http://www.shanghaidaily.com/nsp/Metro/2012/06/19/New+train+arrives+for+test+runs+on+Metro+Line+13/


----------



## big-dog

^^ as far as I know, line 22, line 16, line 13 and line 11 phase II will open this year.


----------



## everywhere

big-dog said:


> ^^ as far as I know, line 22, line 16, line 13 and line 11 phase II will open this year.


By Q3 or Q4 of 2012?


----------



## The Chemist

big-dog said:


> ^^ as far as I know, line 22, line 16, line 13 and line 11 phase II will open this year.


Isn't at least part of Line 12 supposed to open this year as well? Or has work on that line gone more slowly than originally planned?


----------



## chornedsnorkack

everywhere said:


> By Q3 or Q4 of 2012?


October, when line 22 shall open, is in Q4.

How about the other lines - 11, 13 and 16?


----------



## mrmoopt

Anyone got any pictures of the line or the rollingstock that maybe used on this line?


----------



## NCT

Even though the line is supposed to open tomorrow, details about rolling stock and ticketing are still clear as mud.


----------



## everywhere

> A new entrance will soon open at Yili Road Station along Line 10 to accommodate an expected rise in commuters, the Metro operator said today.
> 
> The entrance will include an underground passage linking roads in the busy Hongqiao area, Metro officials said.
> 
> The station presently has only two entrances.



http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/?id=505358&type=Metro


----------



## hkskyline

*Lujiazui shuttle launched to help with lack of taxis*
Shanghai Daily
Jul 11, 2012










SHANGHAI'S Lujiazui area has launched a free shuttle bus to ease the difficulty of getting a cab in the financial district.

The bus runs between the Super Brand Mall and the Shanghai East Hospital from 7:30pm to 10:30pm every day.

The traffic authorities will monitor the new bus route for one month to decide whether to keep it.

If they do, the bus fare will be only 1 yuan (16 US cents).

However, the bus line launched over the weekend received a cold response from many, especially those who live in the Puxi area and are unwilling to take a detour via bus so they can call a taxi.

White-collar workers also complained the shuttles stop operating too early for them.

"I usually miss the deadline of the buses when I work overtime," said Shu Wen, a bank clerk working in the area.

Wang Weibo, an official with the Pudong New Area Construction and Transportation Commission, said "lack of residential communities in the financial zone causes the shortage of taxis running into the area after office hours."

After 8pm, Lujiazui sees few people coming in while lots of people start to leave.

It gets worse after 10pm when the Super Brand Mall closes.

"Most cab drivers are not willing to come to the area if they have no passengers ordering them to do so," Wang said.

Authorities are inviting the public to share ideas.

Participants with innovative ideas will be awarded 100 yuan to 5,000 yuan.

Locals are invited to submit their proposals to [email protected] by July 25.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

hmmwv said:


> I see, so now the A train supply has been resolved, theoretically Line 8 can upgrade to A train if they want, right? Line 7 runs pretty well with CNR Changchun Bombardier's A train.


Best trains in my opinion in Shanghai metro. The quietest and the smoothest.


----------



## everywhere

*First rails laid for Line 16*
(Shanghai Daily, July 14)



> The construction of Shanghai Metro Line 16 reached a new milestone yesterday as workers began laying rails featuring high-speed train technology.
> 
> The 59-kilometer line will link Longyang Road Station in the Pudong New Area to the Lingang New City on the southern coast of Pudong. Line 16 will connect with lines 2 and 7 at Longyang Road Station and Line 11 at Luoshan Road Station, according to Metro authorities.
> 
> The first two rails were laid yesterday morning at Zhoupu East Station. The builder of Line 16 said it will adopt many advanced technologies that have been used on the country's high-speed train routes.


more: http://www.shanghaidaily.com/nsp/Metro/2012/07/14/First+rails+laid+for+Line+16/


----------



## Pansori

I have a question for those who have some knowledge of rail transit. This is not just about Shanghai (although certainly applies to it) but other metro systems in Chinese cities too (at least Shenzhen and Guangzhou where I was riding metro). 

I have noticed that the delay between the metro train stopping and opening the doors is quite long (perhaps about 5 seconds?). Also the delay between doors closing and train starting to move is similar in length (again another 5 seconds or so). Respective delays between the movement of train and door openings/closures in other cities that have fairly young systems (e.g. Singapore, Bangkok, Hong Kong) are much shorter. Why is that? Are there some technological shortcomings or are they doing that on purpose? Those few seconds may not seem very long but it all adds up.


----------



## phoenixboi08

Pansori said:


> I have a question for those who have some knowledge of rail transit. This is not just about Shanghai (although certainly applies to it) but other metro systems in Chinese cities too (at least Shenzhen and Guangzhou where I was riding metro).
> 
> I have noticed that the delay between the metro train stopping and opening the doors is quite long (perhaps about 5 seconds?). Also the delay between doors closing and train starting to move is similar in length (again another 5 seconds or so). Respective delays between the movement of train and door openings/closures in other cities that have fairly young systems (e.g. Singapore, Bangkok, Hong Kong) are much shorter. Why is that? Are there some technological shortcomings or are they doing that on purpose? Those few seconds may not seem very long but it all adds up.


I can only speak for Shanghai: they don't seem to use an automated door opening/closing process.

If you notice, there's usually someone who walks around the platform (and there are CCTVs along the length of it) and they will watch and once the flow has stemmed a little, they'll signal for them to close the doors. 

Usually, there is a specific amount of time that they'll stop anyways so you won't normally notice it. But there have been times when i was on a car for about 1 minute with the doors open 

*this is just what I've noticed. I'm not sure...just offering my idea.


----------



## Pansori

phoenixboi08 said:


> I can only speak for Shanghai: they don't seem to use an automated door opening/closing process.
> 
> If you notice, there's usually someone who walks around the platform (and there are CCTVs along the length of it) and they will watch and once the flow has stemmed a little, they'll signal for them to close the doors.
> 
> Usually, there is a specific amount of time that they'll stop anyways so you won't normally notice it. But there have been times when i was on a car for about 1 minute with the doors open
> 
> *this is just what I've noticed. I'm not sure...just offering my idea.


I understand that. Many systems are not automated. For instance, most of London underground hasn't automated operation (Victoria, Central and Jubilee lines have it). But that has nothing to do with how fast the doors open/close after/before the train moving. In fact I have noticed that if the train operator is experienced and confident they manage to open doors even a very short time before the train has stopped i.e. the entire process is very much "just in time" even on the old lines which haven't seen upgrading for decades (such as District/Circle). In Singapore where the entire system is automated the delay of train movement vs. door operations is also very short compared to Shanghai (Shenzhen, Guangzhou). So there must be some other reason than automation. If they fix this it could actually make the journeys a little bit faster which does matter in a city of this size and in a system transporting 6+ million passengers a day.


----------



## NCT

There have been some high profile nasty accidents on Line 2 (the line without PSDs) which prompted the authority to over-react with OTT 'elf n safety.


----------



## Pansori

NCT said:


> There have been some high profile nasty accidents on Line 2 (the line without PSDs) which prompted the authority to over-react with OTT 'elf n safety.


So is it entirely an H&S issue and not a technological one?


----------



## phoenixboi08

Pansori said:


> I understand that. Many systems are not automated. For instance, most of London underground hasn't automated operation (Victoria, Central and Jubilee lines have it). But that has nothing to do with how fast the doors open/close after/before the train moving. In fact I have noticed that if the train operator is experienced and confident they manage to open doors even a very short time before the train has stopped i.e. the entire process is very much "just in time" even on the old lines which haven't seen upgrading for decades (such as District/Circle). In Singapore where the entire system is automated the delay of train movement vs. door operations is also very short compared to Shanghai (Shenzhen, Guangzhou). So there must be some other reason than automation. If they fix this it could actually make the journeys a little bit faster which does matter in a city of this size and in a system transporting 6+ million passengers a day.


OH! I didn't understand that he meant the actual opening of the doors was slow. I thought he meant there was just a delay in executing it (i.e. the operator was slow). There are some lines where the doors open extremely quickly (line 11 - often before the recording is even finished). I think it's because there are several different train-sets in use by the metro.


----------



## saiho

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> What Shanghai needs is a good commuter rail system for the outlying districts and Jiangsu/Zhejiang suburbs. Commuter rail can be adjusted much more easily to accommodate ridership differences between peak hour/weekends and have set schedules so that there is no ambiguity about when the next train is coming. They can accommodate greater seating as well. Shanghai is simply too big to have just one massive rail system with only metro specifications.


couldn't agree more. Though the winds of change is coming line 21 and 16 are more commuter-like with transverse seating and express services. though I am still wondering what the rolling stock will look like.



drunkenmunkey888 said:


> BTW HK MTR is profitable because they engage in real estate development. It would be interesting to see if only the metro operation segment is profitable although I highly doubt it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio 

look at HK @ 149% so basically for every 1 dollar of fare MTR profits 49 cents pile on real estate, consultancy, BTO, and operation services and thats the profit you commonly see get posted.


----------



## George08

Very interesting discussion...

How many years the HK MTR took to become profitable?

Thanks

"There are two positive externalities that justify subsidizing subways: the reduction in traffic and pollution"


I agree. 
The idea of the same traffic jams -we got in the West- in China, with
over 700 mln motor vehicles is terrible.

I'd like to see the Japanese, Korean, Taiwanese Hk rapid transit model 
in China.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

saiho said:


> couldn't agree more. Though the winds of change is coming line 21 and 16 are more commuter-like with transverse seating and express services. though I am still wondering what the rolling stock will look like.



Don't forget the Jinshan Railway, which leaves from Shanghai Southern Station and is a full-on suburban rail.


----------



## saiho

oh snap, by line 21 I mean line 22 or the Jinshan railway and I also forgot about line 19.


----------



## hmmwv

I just looked back at CRH6's interior shots, there are handles on the isle seats, maybe that's indication that they will allow a significant number of standing passengers, which means there is a change that it could be used on newly constructed commuter/suburban rails.


----------



## Northridge

saiho said:


> Hong Kong, Taipei, Osaka, Singapore, Tokyo and Delhi are the only metros that make a profit.


All the cities here except Delhi I don't think gonna cut it. These cities demand a much higher ticket price. I don't know about dehli, but I would guess they're not too far from the Chinese price.


----------



## Abhishek901

Delhi metro is operationally profitable even from ticket sales alone. In FY 2010-11, Delhi metro incurred expenditure of INR 4.9 billion on traffic operations and earned a revenue of INR 9.4 billion on the same. 

Ticket prices in Delhi metro range from INR 8 to 30 (USD 0.16 to 0.60) on all lines except the Airport Express line (INR 20 to 80 or USD 0.4 to 1.6)

Delhi Metro additionally earned a revenue of INR 6.8 billion from advertising, property development, consultancy services to other metros and external project works. Expenditure in this head was INR 3.5 billion.

Overall the operational revenue vs operational expenditure was 192:100 (INR 16.1 billion vs INR 8.4 billion).

However, the net profit after interest, depreciation, tax, etc, as expected, was negative at INR -4.1 billion.


----------



## George08

*Net Income*

"However, the net profit after interest, depreciation, tax, etc, as expected, was negative at INR -4.1 billion"

So, finally, we're speaking (also in this case) about losses???


----------



## Abhishek901

George08 said:


> "However, the net profit after interest, depreciation, tax, etc, as expected, was negative at INR -4.1 billion"
> 
> So, finally, we're speaking (also in this case) about losses???


Yes. Metros cannot earn net profits because of huge capital expenditure. Most of the metros cannot even recover their daily expenses (operational expenses). Only the metros described by Saiho (Hong Kong, Taipei, Osaka, Singapore, Tokyo and Delhi) are able to recover at least their operational expenses, that is, they are operationally profitable.

However, it is not just about financial benefits. There are far more economic and social benefits because of metros which go unaccounted, such as, time saving, less pollution, less accidents on roads, less fuel consumption, job creation, etc. All the metros in this world be economically profitable, I believe.


----------



## saiho

The article is a bit of the odd sheep out. Though not the first one, 2 years ago I saw an article that struck a similar vein comparing subway construction it to blind expansionism akin to "The Great Leap Forward". As usual it talks about operational losses and "low ridership" (apparently, idk what he is smoking). They really don't have much reasons to not build mass transit.



Abhishek901 said:


> However, it is not just about financial benefits. There are far more economic and social benefits because of metros which go unaccounted, such as, time saving, less pollution, less accidents on roads, less fuel consumption, job creation, etc. All the metros in this world be economically profitable, I believe.


Luckily local governments think so too, though I would not be surprised of there is also other ulterior motives. mass transit is still mass transit.:cheers:


----------



## Geography

> Yes. Metros cannot earn net profits because of huge capital expenditure. Most of the metros cannot even recover their daily expenses (operational expenses). Only the metros described by Saiho (Hong Kong, Taipei, Osaka, Singapore, Tokyo and Delhi) are able to recover at least their operational expenses, that is, they are operationally profitable.
> 
> However, it is not just about financial benefits. There are far more economic and social benefits because of metros which go unaccounted, such as, time saving, less pollution, less accidents on roads, less fuel consumption, job creation, etc. All the metros in this world be economically profitable, I believe.


How many metros are being operated to maximize profits? In other words, are ticket prices set in order to maximize revenue, or to maximize ridership? I think the elasticity of demand for metros is quite inelastic, meaning if metros raise ticket prices they will not see a large decrease in ridership. I base this on the fact that the NYC subway raised its ticket prices several times between 2008-2011 and successfully closed its budget gaps each time.

The demand for subways is inelastic because it would be a huge change in lifestyle for most riders to abandon the subway. The bus is one option, albeit a very slow one. Neither a car or motorcycle is an option for most riders. And subways have a natural monopoly.

Subways should at least be breaking even on operating costs/expenses.


----------



## Abhishek901

But the governments have to be populist too to get elected next time.


----------



## Geography

..


----------



## saiho

Geography said:


> How many metros are being operated to maximize profits? In other words, are ticket prices set in order to maximize revenue, or to maximize ridership? I think the elasticity of demand for metros is quite inelastic, meaning if metros raise ticket prices they will not see a large decrease in ridership. I base this on the fact that the NYC subway raised its ticket prices several times between 2008-2011 and successfully closed its budget gaps each time.
> 
> The demand for subways is inelastic because it would be a huge change in lifestyle for most riders to abandon the subway. The bus is one option, albeit a very slow one. Neither a car or motorcycle is an option for most riders. And subways have a natural monopoly.
> 
> Subways should at least be breaking even on operating costs/expenses.


because they are most are government owned and funded there is no incentive to maximize profits. Also nowadays metros are built strictly for the external benefits (less pollution and congestion). New York is has a more inelastic mas transit demand curve more in line with large European and Asian cities because of lifestyle. But say Atlanta, or LA raised its fares everyone would not take it. China's demand curve today is kinda elastic as the rising middle class has to make the choice between a car or a train lifestyle . If you don't get them hooked today, your going to have a harder time doing it tomorrow.


----------



## phoenixboi08

I think the biggest thing we're leaving out is the amount of money it takes to build these systems...I think a big reason why HK's system is doing well is because they have utilized a different financing scheme.

If it costs $800 million dollars to build X line, then you may end up owing $1.2 billion, and you maximize your ridership at a base fare of $3...you can see the problem. (these numbers are completely random, but I was just trying to illustrate my point


----------



## Geography

> If it costs $800 million dollars to build X line, then you may end up owing $1.2 billion, and you maximize your ridership at a base fare of $3...you can see the problem. (these numbers are completely random, but I was just trying to illustrate my point


Follow through. If you assume ridership of 1 million per day, in line with medium-sized metros like those of Shenzhen and Guangzhou, that's $3 million per day in revenue. Then you can add all the advertising revenue from the trains and stations. Let's estimate at $1 million per day. I would be shocked if operating costs were $4 million per day, especially in developing countries with lower labor costs. Cities with unionized work forces might consume all their daily revenue.

At $4 million/day in revenue and 365 days in a year, that's $1.46 billion/year in revenue. If we assume operating costs consume 90% of that, over $1 billion/year, then that still makes a profit of $146 million. If the interest on $1 billion in bonds is 5%, then that's $50 in annual interest payments, leaving a net profit of $100 million.

I know, this is all very rough and I'm not an accounting or finance expect, but on the face of it, it looks plausible. The Beijing subway provides 7.5 million rides a day, in one of the richest cities in China. There is a flat fare of just 2 RMB (according to Wikipedia), about $0.30!! If China raised that to $1/ride, that's $7.5 million/day, plus advertising revenue. Surely the Beijing subway's daily operating costs are less than $7.5 million.


----------



## infra desperados

^^


> The Beijing subway provides 7.5 million rides a day, in one of the richest cities in China. There is a flat fare of just 2 RMB (according to Wikipedia), about $0.30!! If China raised that to $1/ride, that's $7.5 million/day, plus advertising revenue. Surely the Beijing subway's daily operating costs are less than $7.5 million


If they will increase the fare to 1usd, then do u think that ridership will remains the same, it will definately not remain that reliable, metros are such a hits because they provides fast and reliable travel in very affordable fares for any class people, if u'll increase the fare that much, it will remain out of reach for many middle and lower middle class people, even rich people will prefer taking thier cars out instead of travelling in metros, metros are made for convinience of public and not to make profits, govt. have many other sources to do that, but if instead of that some systems(4-5 out of about 150-160systems) are making profit,then that's very nice. but nobody plans metro to make profits.


----------



## George08

I think the Chinese should try seriously to make 
the most important metro systems in their country 
at least "operationally profitable".
Beacause a country with over 1 bln people 
has got a very big potential ridership..


----------



## hmmwv

Why do they have to seek profitability? It's a public service and is there to facilitate the economic growth of the city. It's like saying public education is not profitable so let's increase tuition in public K-12 schools.


----------



## hkskyline

The logic should be planners should design cities that are sustainable, and transit use should be one major part of sustainability.

Once the system is sustainable, then it will not lose money.


----------



## NCT

Maglev extension is a one-time political hot potato that's been firmed brushed under the carpet. As for commuter railway services, as long as the current governance system doesn't change and the power hungry MOR remains in existence don't expect that to make any serious inroads.


----------



## Pansori

NCT said:


> Maglev extension is a one-time political hot potato that's been firmed brushed under the carpet. As for commuter railway services, as long as the current governance system doesn't change and the power hungry MOR remains in existence don't expect that to make any serious inroads.


What has MoR to do with that? Are they somehow stopping rail projects from implementation within cities? What is the reason for that?

And why Maglev is a hot potato? It's half done now and all it needs is the track to get built to Hongqiao where even the station platforms have been built for it. And unlike current service terminating somewhere away from main city areas it would make a very good sense connecting two major airports and main city areas along the way. What's the problem there? Right now it's more of a tourist attraction than a means of transport and it's not a good idea to just leave it at that. Isn't it anyone's duty to keep the face by just making it work right instead of having a half-built tourist attraction?


----------



## NCT

There's a lot of local opposition (NIMBYs, yes they do exist in China, not in small numbers either) usually centred around perceived radiation hazards. The current lot of municipal government leaders are a rather conservative lot, much less ambitious than the previous lot that got chucked into prisons (well there's a lot more to that but you get the gist).

Regarding commuter travel, the main problem is that it is a bit beyond the capability of local authorities as you are talking about cross-boundary services. The MOR is far too proud to go into local nitty gritties. Where commuter routes do exists they rely on existing corridors (of which there are generally very few) being in place, and even in those situations ticketing and other procedures can be pretty backwards. Shanghai Metro will have line 11 crossing Shanghai's boundary going into Anting, but that's the exception not the rule.


----------



## Pansori

Radiation hazards from Maglev? Why not AIDS or Bird Flu? I think Einstein was right about things that are infinite.


----------



## foxmulder

Well, they can build maglev underground like a subway  So no radiation


----------



## Pansori

foxmulder said:


> Well, they can build maglev underground like a subway  So no radiation


But you can still get AIDS from that!


----------



## saiho

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Do not forget that Shanghai metro actually doesn't have any tickets that allow to ride cheaper. I mean residents usually pay each time they enter. And if the ride is quite long it may cost up to 7 RMB. The way to and back is 14 RMB already.
> 
> There are, of course, tickets for 24 hours (18 RMB) and 72 hours (45 RMB) but as I can guess residents do not buy them for the travel 2 times a day only: to work and back home. These two types of tickets are more popular among tourists. And compared to other prices, food for example, these tickets are not cheap in fact. So, maybe Shanghai metro is profitable indeed.
> 
> + once again, Shanghai metro is pervaded by shops, stores, virtual supermarkets, ads, banks, ATMs, vending machines etc.


i think the ticketing system is fine as is. When you are one of the fastest expanding metros on the world I don't think you can make money in the short run. I do believe that the shanghai metro has a chance at making money in the long run when the expansion master plan is done and ridership has matured and a lifestyle has been built around the lines. 



NCT said:


> Maglev extension is a one-time political hot potato that's been firmed brushed under the carpet. As for commuter railway services, as long as the current governance system doesn't change and the power hungry MOR remains in existence don't expect that to make any serious inroads.


Line 22 is a full on commuter/regional rail line and it shares tracks with MOR. maybe they are slowly letting commuter/regional services use their tracks as more long haul intercity moves to PDLs and such.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Pansori, traveling from Pudong to Hongqiao is only 1 hour 35 minutes. For over 60 km it is not that bad result considering metro. I guess average speed of Paris RER is not much higher.

And then I don't think the traffic between the 2 airports is so heavy to justify the construction of a new express line.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Xujiahui station, line 1. An old Siemens train arrives.


----------



## phoenixboi08

NCT said:


> As for profitability, all I'll say is mass transit makes sense for big cities stupid. While not operationally profitable the benefit for the wider economy is beyond obvious. Shanghai's urban rail capacity and coverage are still very low compared to similar cities like Paris, London and Tokyo, and there's a loooooooooooong way to go before one can talk about overbuilding.


I agree (I think anyone would); however, I do think it's worth talking about, considering the size - and future proposed size - of the system. I honestly don't believe building 10 new lines is going to bump up their ridership a large deal (except for the outer areas, for sure), but will only make service smoother (i.e. alleviate congestion on other lines). This IS a concern, but I just wonder if a combination of other things could be just a effective and save them a lot of money in the process. 

Also, I didn't realize some of those lines are envisioned as being commuter rail. Is it just 20 (or was it 22?).


----------



## Silly_Walks

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Pansori, traveling from Pudong to Hongqiao is only 1 hour 35 minutes. For over 60 km it is not that bad result considering metro. I guess average speed of Paris RER is not much higher.
> 
> And then I don't think the traffic between the 2 airports is so heavy to justify the construction of a new express line.


But traffic from the few stops in between the two airports will be enough to justify it, because it will mean a quicker way to get to 2 airports, plus it will be like an express line for like 2 to 4 stations in the city itself.


----------



## NCT

phoenixboi08 said:


> I agree (I think anyone would); however, I do think it's worth talking about, considering the size - and future proposed size - of the system. I honestly don't believe building 10 new lines is going to bump up their ridership a large deal (except for the outer areas, for sure), but will only make service smoother (i.e. alleviate congestion on other lines). This IS a concern, but I just wonder if a combination of other things could be just a effective and save them a lot of money in the process.
> 
> Also, I didn't realize some of those lines are envisioned as being commuter rail. Is it just 20 (or was it 22?).


Both the current and proposed sizes of the system are small in comparison to Shanghai's population and economy. Personally I don't think they are building the system too fast on the whole (maybe in the run-up period to Expo 2010 when planning and construction were a little rushed, but the pace has considerably slowed down since then).

A lot of lines are seriously overloaded and congestion relief can't come sooner. There is an awful lot of suppressed demand there just needn't be worries that trains won't get filled. The business case for any planned line is strong, and the only alternatives should be in the form of interim solutions before those lines can be constructed, and they shouldn't be used to justify delaying the permanent schemes. Those temporary solutions would prove insufficient in the medium to long run anyway.


----------



## phoenixboi08

NCT said:


> Both the current and proposed sizes of the system are small in comparison to Shanghai's population and economy. Personally I don't think they are building the system too fast on the whole (maybe in the run-up period to Expo 2010 when planning and construction were a little rushed, but the pace has considerably slowed down since then).
> 
> A lot of lines are seriously overloaded and congestion relief can't come sooner. There is an awful lot of suppressed demand there just needn't be worries that trains won't get filled. The business case for any planned line is strong, and the only alternatives should be in the form of interim solutions before those lines can be constructed, and they shouldn't be used to justify delaying the permanent schemes. Those temporary solutions would prove insufficient in the medium to long run anyway.


Good point. I just...am not sold on the need for some of the new lines in the inner city. It seems a bit much imo. It just seemed that their issues are about crowding during peak times...which is where I think commuter/express lines would do more to alleviate for the same (or less) cost than building several new lines. I understand that Shanghai is a large city, but I still believe less can be more. Isn't a leaner system better - in terms of both service and management?


----------



## NCT

Which new lines do you think are surplus to requirement anyway?

I agree express lines should be looked at, but they should be on top of, not instead of current metro proposals.


----------



## Pansori

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Pansori, traveling from Pudong to Hongqiao is only 1 hour 35 minutes. For over 60 km it is not that bad result considering metro. I guess average speed of Paris RER is not much higher.
> 
> And then I don't think the traffic between the 2 airports is so heavy to justify the construction of a new express line.


Even if it's half-built already?
And no 1.5 hours between two airports doesn't sound like a great idea. Sounds like a hassle to be honest. That would be acceptable in a city which has crumbling and outdated system based on 19th century infrastructure (like London) but certainly not in a city which is supposedly trying to build an efficient and comprehensive public transport system in the 21st century.


----------



## hkskyline

Pansori said:


> Even if it's half-built already?
> And no 1.5 hours between two airports doesn't sound like a great idea. Sounds like a hassle to be honest. That would be acceptable in a city which has crumbling and outdated system based on 19th century infrastructure (like London) but certainly not in a city which is supposedly trying to build an efficient and comprehensive public transport system in the 21st century.


Well, a trip from Narita to Haneda can easily take 1h30 even on their world-class train network. 

Hongqiao is still primarily a domestic airport with very few international flights, while Pudong also has domestic flights. At this point, perhaps airport-to-airport transfers are not that common but building a dedicated express rail line between the two will likely be very expensive. I'd rather they focus on adding subway lines within the city.


----------



## hmmwv

I think an expressline between Hongqiao and Pudong is absolutely necessary and overdue. There are a lot of arriving international passengers who needs to transfer to smaller cities which only have flights to Hongqiao, or more importantly, people who needs to ride HSR to Yangtze River Delta cities. It's ridiculous that it takes one and half hours to get from Pudong to Hongqiao (60km), and then 1:15 to get to Nanjing (300km+) via HSR. In addition this expressline should have a station at People's Square (provided that it's built as a deep bore tunnel so route is not an issue), the traffic generated by people who needs a quick direct access to the center of the city will help justify the construction.


----------



## binhai

Yeah seriously with the HSR station already there it sounds like a no-brainer. If they can't agree on maglev rebuild it in conventional rail, no big deal imo.


----------



## George08

ddes said:


> I was just discussing the issue of metro profitability with my fellow local forum member earlier. Singapore's SMRT, Japan's Tokyo Metro and JR East and Hong Kong's MTR are profitable not because their rail operations are making money. Having looked through their financial statements, ticket sales revenue alone would've never made them money. What all these profitable entities have in common is ancillary revenue from letting retail spaces within stations, license fees to allow other operators to run services into their network, to actual residential and commercial property which is where the money's at. MTR for example co-developed and co-own Hong Kong's ICC and Elements mall, JR East and Tokyo Metro have their LUMINE and Echika retail malls, as does Singapore.


Thant's the point i'm trying to understand...

These systems are just operationally profitable because their activity is actually linked to the real estate business?


----------



## chornedsnorkack

*Ground level streetcars*

How much ground level streetcars need to be added to Shanghai?
http://www.shanghaidaily.org/nsp/Metro/2012/08/13/City+may+add+streetcars/


----------



## hkskyline

NCT said:


> You don't get it, it's never really been about stopping terror. It's always about creating public-sector non-jobs and keeping checks on people. The government isn't interested in them being capable of doing the work right.
> 
> To 'do the job properly' you need people with the right attitude and the ability to make balanced judgments between identifying risks and not causing too much inconvenience. Even this is still beside the point as there's no way of achieving anything close to 100% coverage which is what's needed to actually prevent any bombing.


What makes you think the government intentionally decided to employ a few people per station to do nothing? I would think this makes little impact on the overall unemployment figure anyway, so why not add more platform handlers, who also don't do much but there are far more of them per station?

You still don't get the fact that our laws and enforcement capabilities are not designed to weed out 100% of all crime, or anything close to that figure. So why should we expect an X-ray machine and a few attendants to achieve close to 100% coverage?


----------



## hkskyline

Geography said:


> Just to underscore my point about traffic accidents being a bigger threat to Chinese life and limb than terrorists:
> 
> Reuters
> 
> *One hundred thousand* people killed in traffic accidents every year. That is more than Al Qaeda could kill in their wildest dreams. That is more than the atomic bombing of Nagasaki in 1945 which killed 60-80,000 people. While I oppose security checkpoints on roads for civil liberties reasons, _if_ you're going to spend money on security checkpoints in order to save lives it would be more efficiently spend trying to catch drunk and unlicensed drivers. Improving rural roads and highways by widening them and adding shoulders and medians to prevent head-on collisions would be a better use of money that is being spent on random checks on metros.


Don't think traffic kills less in the West than terrorism. So the first ones to drop all security checks at airports are the Western countries, by your logic?


----------



## Geography

> Don't think traffic kills less in the West than terrorism. So the first ones to drop all security checks at airports are the Western countries, by your logic?


I've been a fierce critic of overspending on security in the United States. As I stated before, the U.S. overreacted right after 9/11 and posted guards everywhere. It was all very expensive and utterly pointless. When people calmed down and glanced at the balance sheet, they quickly scaled back. With the exception of Iraq, Syria, and Pakistan terrorism is just not that big a threat anywhere in the world. 

I bet that with the exception of those three countries, terrorism would not appear in the top 100 causes of death and injury in any country. Things like heart disease, lung cancer, strokes, heart attacks, vehicle accidents, alcoholism, food poisoning, and allergic reactions to snake bites and bee stings kill more people than terrorists worldwide and certainly in China.

Terrorists love when the media and government over-react to their relatively puny attacks, it increases the terrorists' egos and encourages more attacks. We shouldn't indulge them by inconveniencing ourselves unnecessarily. Of course the police and intelligence agencies should still investigate and head terrorists off, something the U.S. has done very well in 9/11.


----------



## Pansori

NCT said:


> Daily Mail-esque much.
> 
> Yes these people should be helped into jobs and there are ways to do it properly. I actually support the idea of the state maintaining or managing certain sectors which help reskilling people, as long as the jobs create actual wealth and act as a stepping stone for people to go up the job ladder. These Metro security jobs do nothing of the sort - they don't foster any kind of responsibility and are the employees are prematurely given powers they don't deserve. They just cause stress and misery to the travelling public and bring no benefit to society whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> You don't get it, it's never really been about stopping terror. It's always about creating public-sector non-jobs and keeping checks on people. The government isn't interested in them being capable of doing the work right.
> 
> To 'do the job properly' you need people with the right attitude and the ability to make balanced judgments between identifying risks and not causing too much inconvenience. Even this is still beside the point as there's no way of achieving anything close to 100% coverage which is what's needed to actually prevent any bombing.


Perhaps so. It is still better than paying them benefits for sitting at home while during the time they spend at "work" they would very likely engage in anti-social activities. It is mostly about human psychology than actual use of what they do. At least they have some routine and think they are working. They do undergo some kind of training and disciplining courses. Again, I'm not saying their job is of much use but it is better than leaving them homeless or paying them benefits.

P.S. Daily Mail is read by the sort of people I just described in Britain. Not by me


----------



## NCT

Pansori said:


> Perhaps so. It is still better than paying them benefits for sitting at home while during the time they spend at "work" they would very likely engage in anti-social activities. It is mostly about human psychology than actual use of what they do. At least they have some routine and think they are working. They do undergo some kind of training and disciplining courses. Again, I'm not saying their job is of much use but it is better than leaving them homeless or paying them benefits.
> 
> P.S. Daily Mail is read by the sort of people I just described in Britain. Not by me


Well yes, it might 'still' be better than paying them benefits but why stop there when you can easily go a step further by steering them onto proper wealth-creation jobs? Why does need to be about human psychology than actual use of what they do?!


----------



## Pansori

NCT said:


> Well yes, it might 'still' be better than paying them benefits but why stop there when you can easily go a step further by steering them onto proper wealth-creation jobs? Why does need to be about human psychology than actual use of what they do?!


But what else could they do? I saw lots of "policemen" who seem to be bored and do nothing, streetsweepers who were cleaning streets which already looked impossibly clean. There is a wide range of jobs where those people get employed and security at metro stations is just one of them. There are many of those people and you can't just employ everyone in wealth creating jobs. The influx of people from the countryside is massive and it is a challenging task to mainain things without causing social unrests. China seems to be doing pretty good regarding that. Once more wealth-creating jobs will be available, they can get transferred there. Try doing that with someone who's never done any job and has lived on benefits or simply on the street begging for money.

In any case I agree that security x ray checks as they are in metros in Shanghai and elsewhere are useless. They should rather tighten up the part of security that is responsible for fare evaders. I saw lots of those in Shanghai and I was rather surprised that this (seemingly) is not being addressed.


----------



## NCT

It just requires a bit of thought and imagination to match demand for goods and services and supply of labour. Yes you can't do everything overnight but with the right training mechanisms in place you don't need to create jobs that inconvenient everyone.

Anyway I think we've strayed OT far enough.

Oh and lastly those people you describe actually read the Sun. :troll:


----------



## phoenixboi08

Isn't there a new metro station planned for Lujiazui around the SWFC, Jin Mao, and ST? (_a la_ People's Square metro station?)


----------



## NCT

phoenixboi08 said:


> Isn't there a new metro station planned for Lujiazui around the SWFC, Jin Mao, and ST? (_a la_ People's Square metro station?)


The only planned station I know of around there is the Lujiazui Station for future Line 14, which is to be located to the south of the current station for Line 2.


----------



## phoenixboi08

NCT said:


> The only planned station I know of around there is the Lujiazui Station for future Line 14, which is to be located to the south of the current station for Line 2.


Thanks


----------



## _Night City Dream_

BTW it's really strange that only one line comes thought Lujiazui, as it is so dense and so popular.


----------



## NCT

_Night City Dream_ said:


> BTW it's really strange that only one line comes thought Lujiazui, as it is so dense and so popular.


Yeah, that is one of the big planning mysteries. Even when the 14 is finished there will still only be 2 lines for what is supposedly a 'world class financial centre'. I guess at a push you could say lines 4 and 9 touch Lujiazui.


----------



## phoenixboi08

NCT said:


> Yeah, that is one of the big planning mysteries. Even when the 14 is finished there will still only be 2 lines for what is supposedly a 'world class financial centre'. I guess at a push you could say lines 4 and 9 touch Lujiazui.


True, though the Century Avenue confluence is nearby.


----------



## NCT

phoenixboi08 said:


> True, though the Century Avenue confluence is nearby.


It's still very far away though, 2 long-ish stops on Line 2.


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

NCT said:


> It's still very far away though, 2 long-ish stops on Line 2.


Does it take long time to travel between two stations? Going from People's Park to say Zhongshan Park, how long does it take? Does it feel that it's far? It's just 4 stations.


----------



## Severiano

^^ People's square to Zhongshan Park takes about 15 mins. Not including buying tickets etc. 

I noticed some people above were complaining about the secrity checks. All I have to say is Welcome to China where convenience is illegal! Just ignore it like I do, I don't think I have ever put a bag in that thing, even when going on vacation and have a ton of heavy baggage. Obey the laws like people obey traffic laws. If you can make a right on red without stopping or looking, you can walk right past that security check!


----------



## big-dog

^^ Apart from the negligence part, I thought turning right on red is legal in Shanghai (I'm not driving in Shanghai though). But the subway security check thing is a joke, most people don't follow it and it's no problem!


----------



## NCT

big-dog said:


> ^^ Apart from the negligence part, I thought *turning right on red is legal in Shanghai* (I'm not driving in Shanghai though). But the subway security check thing is a joke, most people don't follow it and it's no problem!


I think it's legal pretty much everywhere in China, apart from where there is a right-turn filter signal of course.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Right, it's legal.


----------



## RockAss

Right is legal, but sometimes people thing going straight and turning left on the red light is also legal (especially for motorbikes) if there is not many cars on the road.. X ray security checks, I don't remember in Shanghai metro, but in the main line railway stations and bus terminals I was always asked to put my bag there and people don't mind doing that


----------



## big-dog

*9.28 Jinshan Rail, (aka Shanhai Metro Line 22) opens today*

The 56km line 22 is Shanghai's first commuter rail.




























(weibo.com)


----------



## FM 2258

^^

Very cool pictures. Jinshanwei station looks more like a major train station than a commuter rail station. They definitely put a lot of work into it.


----------



## IanCleverly

big-dog said:


> *9.28 Jinshan Rail, (aka Shanhai Metro Line 22) opens today*


Those seats facing the window, Are they always placed like that, or can they be moved by person(s) wanting to sit like that?


----------



## Pansori

^^
They can be turned around to face opposite directions. I'm not sure if it's allowed to turn them to face the window like that according to safety rules though.


----------



## hmmwv

^^ It's absolutely not designed to be turned in that intermediate position, it will wobble because it's not locked in, yup I've tried it. Fun, but not safe.


----------



## Woonsocket54

Lost in all the Line 22 hullabaloo was the fact that a new infill station opened on Line 8 last week. The station is called China Art Museum.

http://www.exploremetro.com/blog/sh...-line-8-china-art-museum-station-on-expo-site



> *Shanghai Metro opens new Line 8 China Art Museum station on Expo site*
> 
> The Shanghai Metro company have announced that a new station China Art Museum will open tomorrow, September 28 2012. The station is named after the adjacent China Art Museum, which also opens for trial operation this National Holiday week. The museum is housed in what was the China Pavilion during the 2010 World Expo. The station will also be convenient for events at the nearby Mercedes-Benz Arena.
> 
> Here’s a snippet of the metro map, showing the location of China Art Museum on Line 8. The station (formely known by the Chinese name of Zhoujiadu in plans) is between South Xizang Road and Yaohua Road on Line 8.











http://sh.eastday.com/m/20120926/u1a6888196.html









http://shanghai.xinmin.cn/msrx/2012/09/26/16499588.html









http://sh.xinhuanet.com/2012-09/29/c_131881308.htm


----------



## NCT

Should have kept its original name Zhoujiadu.


----------



## napkcirtap

NCT said:


> Should have kept its original name Zhoujiadu.


i agree. it's sad to see this happen


----------



## hmmwv

Yeah the name Zhoujiadu carries so much history and memory, the ferry terminal is gone, now even the subway station is renamed.


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

What are the next metro openings for this year and the whole of next year 2013?


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

Does anyone know when line 13 first phase starts?


----------



## big-dog

^^

*2012:*

Line 9 Phase III South (end of year)
Line 13 Phase I West (end of year)
Line 22 - Jinshan Rail (already opened)

*2013:*

Line 11 Phase II (mid year)
Line 11 Huaqiao section (2nd half)
Line 12 East (end of year)
Line 16 Partial (end of year)

There were some delay on line 11 and 16 which are supposed to open this year.


----------



## saiho

big-dog said:


> ^^
> 
> *2012:*
> 
> Line 9 Phase III South (end of year)
> Line 13 Phase I West (end of year)
> Line 22 - Jinshan Rail (already opened)
> 
> *2013:*
> 
> Line 11 Phase II (mid year)
> Line 11 Huaqiao section (2nd half)
> Line 12 East (end of year)
> Line 16 Partial (end of year)
> 
> There were some delay on line 11 and 16 which are supposed to open this year.


I thought a chunk of line 12 is supposed to open this year.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

It is still much more than almost any other city outside China.


----------



## Woonsocket54

_Night City Dream_ said:


> It is still much more than almost any other city outside China.


The Shanghai metro is bigger than that of any city inside or outside China.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

Woonsocket54 said:


> The Shanghai metro is bigger than that of any city inside or outside China.


I've always been of the mind that it would be inappropriate to compare Shanghai metro with just simply metro systems across the world. That is because Shanghai metro serves the functions of both metro AND suburban rail. Therefore, it would be more appropriate to look at both suburban and urban rail transit when comparing Shanghai metro. In that regard, Tokyo and NYC each easily have 5 times the length of track, coverage, and depth of service.


----------



## Pansori

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> I've always been of the mind that it would be inappropriate to compare Shanghai metro with just simply metro systems across the world. That is because Shanghai metro serves the functions of both metro AND suburban rail. Therefore, it would be more appropriate to look at both suburban and urban rail transit when comparing Shanghai metro. In that regard, Tokyo and NYC each easily have 5 times the length of track, coverage, and depth of service.


Which lines apart from line 22 and Maglev serve as suburban rail?


----------



## Silly_Walks

Pansori said:


> Which lines apart from line 22 and Maglev serve as suburban rail?


I think he means that, in the absence of proper suburban rail, the metro system takes its place/ performs that function.

Where other cities have suburban rail + metro working together, Shanghai basically only has metro doing both jobs... so to more properly compare those cities with Shanghai, suburban rail should be added to their stats.


----------



## Woonsocket54

Silly_Walks said:


> I think he means that, in the absence of proper suburban rail, the metro system takes its place/ performs that function.
> 
> Where other cities have suburban rail + metro working together, Shanghai basically only has metro doing both jobs... so to more properly compare those cities with Shanghai, suburban rail should be added to their stats.


Where other cities have metro + bus working together, Detroit basically only has bus doing both jobs... so to more properly compare those cities with Detroit, buses should be added to their stats.


----------



## saiho

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> I've always been of the mind that it would be inappropriate to compare Shanghai metro with just simply metro systems across the world. That is because Shanghai metro serves the functions of both metro AND suburban rail. Therefore, it would be more appropriate to look at both suburban and urban rail transit when comparing Shanghai metro. In that regard, Tokyo and NYC each easily have 5 times the length of track, coverage, and depth of service.


In many situations it can be a valid comparison without including suburban rail. The examples you included (especially Tokyo) are suburban railways approaching the functions and standards of a metro, which is a totally different debate altogether. Many systems particularly in North America suburban rail is built and operated at such a low standard that adding the trackage would not accurately reflect the city's "rapid transit situation". Even in Europe the only systems I might consider are the RER/S-Bahn/S-Tog systems etc. which are well known to blur commuter rail and rapid transit.


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> I've always been of the mind that it would be inappropriate to compare Shanghai metro with just simply metro systems across the world. That is because Shanghai metro serves the functions of both metro AND suburban rail. Therefore, it would be more appropriate to look at both suburban and urban rail transit when comparing Shanghai metro. In that regard, Tokyo and NYC each easily have 5 times the length of track, coverage, and depth of service.


Seoul also have a combined metro and commuter rail.


----------



## doc7austin

Hello, I have uploaded a number of videos of the Shanghai Metro on Youtube.
All videos were taken in 2012 and document the elevated section (above ground) of this great metro network. 

Enjoy!


----------



## Pansori

^^
Thanks, some great videos there.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Stunning movies! Thanks a lot. Personnally, I still haven't seen my favourite Bombardier trains on line 9 being not underground.

Can anyone tell me what the dimensions (length, width, height) of each type of rolling stock on Shanghai metro lines are? Can't find it anywhere.


----------



## big-dog

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Stunning movies! Thanks a lot. Personnally, I still haven't seen my favourite Bombardier trains on line 9 being not underground.


Me too. I take line 9 to work everyday and I don't know what it looks like since it's running underground all the time.


----------



## big-dog

*Shanghai Line 11 phase II track laying is completed*

Phase II has 22.886 km, starting from Jiangsu Rd, across Xujiahui and Pudong, to reach Luoshan Rd. The new section will open in 2013.










--weibo.com


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Laoximen station, line 10.
On that day I felt what is called a Rush hour in Shanghai metro. Can't say it is roughe than that in Moscow but some things differ.

First thing to mention is that transfer corridors as well as exits are much of a lower capacity. So when the two trains arrive on both sides and let the crowd get off, they can't leave the station immediately, the process takes some 3 - 5 minutes right up to the arrival of the next trains.

As I said before, the driver gets off at each station to control the situation.


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-city-dream/view/547161/

The trains are longer than stations.

He is about to close the doors, and he does that being at the STATION, not in the cab:


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-city-dream/view/547162/

Not so many people still after the departure:


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-city-dream/view/547163/

L10 stands for Line 10, 14 means the official number of the station at the line. 02 is the official number of the foors. Sometimes they are numbered as 01-02-03-04-05-...-40, sometimes: 1-1, 1-2 ,1-3 ,1-4 ,2-1 ,2-2...


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-city-dream/view/547164/

The folks are arriving from Line 8.


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-city-dream/view/547165/

The place behind the screen where the driver stands while the train is at the station:


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-city-dream/view/547166/

More and more people:


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-city-dream/view/547167/

Inside the train people read but to much more extent - they watch movies on their iPads, Samsung Notes or iPhones or... have breakfast. And it looks cool. Right near me a girl made a cup of instant coffee and... a cup of soup. The equipment unit box served as table.

19 .07. 2012.


----------



## doc7austin

Here are some more daylight videos of the Shanghai Metro:

Line 1:



Line 5:



Line 7:

 

Here is a bonus. Photos from Line 11!

The photos were taking at Jiading Xincheng station looking to the North. A Metro train leaves that station and takes a right exit going towards Anting. This is the line towards Shanghai Circuit.










4 minutes later another Metro train stays on the Main Line and travels towards North Jiading station.











Enjoy!


----------



## Northridge

^^Nice collection there.


----------



## doc7austin

Here is photo report from my journey to the Beach - with Shanghai Metro Line 22, operated by CRH2 High Speed Trainsets.

From Shanghai Nan Zhan to Jinshanwei I travelled on the slow train, which stops at each station. The trip took about an hour. The train never reached 160km/h as it seemed to me.
Back from Jinshanwei to Shanghai I opted for the nonstop, which was going at 160km/h most of time. 30 minutes later I was back in Shanghai.

The first video covers the Metro-ride from Shanghai Nan Zhan to Jinshanwei:












The second video was made on the way back:





The photos will appear soon.


----------



## doc7austin

Approaching Shanghai South Railway Station (Shanghai Nan Zhan):





The inside pavillon of this railway station:












Metro Line 22 is not easy to find. Actually there are almost no signpost. One has to look for the signs "Jinshan Railways".












Going downstairs:












The ordinary Metro Cards are accepted. One does not need an extra ticket or seat reservation (Thank Goodness).
The platform with two Metro Line 22 trainsets (CRH2):























The inside of the empty Metro train:







































This is probably Chunshen Station:





















The parallel section the Huhang PDL (Shanghai–Hangzhou Passenger Railway):





















Chedun Station:












Yexie Station:












The Terminal Station Jinshanwei:






























The Outside View:





















The Jinshan Beach:






























Enjoy!


----------



## Falubaz

Sounds weird as a metro comuter line operating with high-speed trains. Is this line included into the Shanghai metro fare system? Or you need to buy new ticket to travel on the regular metro lines inside the city?


----------



## Silly_Walks

Why does there seem so little integration with 'metro line 22' and the rest of the metro network? No metro logo, no 'line 22' anywhere? It seems like a regular railway line.
I can understand they are using CRH2 for this untill 160 km/h CRH6 becomes available, but for the other exterior aspects I don't understand why they went for railway in stead of metro looks.


----------



## phoenixboi08

it's a commuter line. I think it's just operated by the metro?


----------



## hmmwv

They are distinguishing those suburban railways from the metro system, it's happening all over China, for example Nanjing Metro Line 6 is renamed Nanjing-Gaochun Intercity Transit. There will be this separate transit system being implemented in China, parallel with China Railway, CRH, and Metros.


----------



## Silly_Walks

hmmwv said:


> They are distinguishing those suburban railways from the metro system, it's happening all over China, for example Nanjing Metro Line 6 is renamed Nanjing-Gaochun Intercity Transit. There will be this separate transit system being implemented in China, parallel with China Railway, CRH, and Metros.


So kind of like a RER or S-Bahn, like so many people on these forums have been saying they should build? Are they reading these forums for advice? :lol::lol:


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Is there any information on the rolling stock of shanghai metro? I mean the dimensions of train cars per line. Thanks.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Is there any information on the rolling stock of shanghai metro? I mean the dimensions of train cars per line. Thanks.


Trains on line 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 9, 10 and 11 are allegedly 3m wide. But I highly doubt that because they feel much narrower than other trains that are actually 3m wide like the letter trains in the NYC subway. An R32 feels much wider than any Alstom train on the Shanghai metro.

R32:
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f160/error46146/DC-Transit/DSCN0029.jpg

Metro line 10:
http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/60186811.jpg


----------



## Pansori

hmmwv said:


> They are distinguishing those suburban railways from the metro system, it's happening all over China, for example Nanjing Metro Line 6 is renamed Nanjing-Gaochun Intercity Transit. There will be this separate transit system being implemented in China, parallel with China Railway, CRH, and Metros.


One thing has to be noted though that RER or some S Bahn (e.g. Munich) systems are city-cross railways i.e. they literally cross the city from one end to another.


----------



## saiho

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Is there any information on the rolling stock of shanghai metro? I mean the dimensions of train cars per line. Thanks.


line 1 and the western section of line 2 use 8 car "A size trains" which are wide 3m and ~22.5 meters long.
lines 3, 4, 7, 9, 10 and 11 use 6 car "A size trains".
Line 5, 6 and 8 use "C size" trains which have the stupidly small dimensions of 2.6m wide and ~19.5 meters long. Line 6 and 5 are in 4 car formations while line 8 is in 7 or 6 car formations.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

^^^
Agree.

Does anyone know what the rolling stock will be on line 13? When it opened in 2010 there were some Movia trains from line 9.

I found some pictures at ShanghaiDaily:











Новость от июня этого года. http://www.shanghaidaily.com/nsp/Metro/201...ro%2BLine%2B13/










Both pictures dated June, 2012.

It was said the rolling stock will be manufactured by Nanjing Puzhen. Normally, they make Alstom Metropolis cars, if I'm correct but in the pictures it seems more like a Siemens train on line 4 with a changed front part.


----------



## Northridge

^^A stock.


----------



## saiho

_Night City Dream_ said:


> It was said the rolling stock will be manufactured by Nanjing Puzhen. Normally, they make Alstom Metropolis cars, if I'm correct but in the pictures it seems more like a Siemens train on line 4 a changed front part.


Nowadays Chinese manufacturers are digesting the foreign designs and tweaking them with Chinese characteristics and most of them are very good.



Northridge said:


> ^^A stock.


yes.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Ok but still the train in your opinion is based on what rolling stock?


----------



## hmmwv

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Ok but still the train in your opinion is based on what rolling stock?


The rolling stock is AC18, a domestic train by CSR Puzhen, the PW80E-Ⅳ bogie is indigenous but uses Siemens traction system. The body is also a new design but takes design cue from Siemens trains. Although Puzhen mostly made Metropolis trains they are quite diverse, for example the Nanjing Metro Line 3 cars will use Bombardier technology.


----------



## Northridge

^^Very nice looking train. It looks better from the side than the front IMO. The only thing I don't like is the pink color, but I guess that is the line color.


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

Why you don't like the pink colour.
I think it's that what makes it look good.


----------



## Woonsocket54

I say not enough pink. Chongqing has more pink for its pink line.



big-dog said:


> *9.28 opening day photos*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kangzhuang Station
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> from 我爱柯南, ditiezu.com


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Northridge said:


> ^^Very nice looking train. It looks better from the side than the front IMO. The only thing I don't like is the pink color, but I guess that is the line color.


Right you are. However me personally, I find the livery very attractive, much better than that on trains on line 6.


----------



## Northridge

VECTROTALENZIS said:


> Why you don't like the pink colour.
> I think it's that what makes it look good.


I'm not a fan of pink, but that's not why I don't like it here. 
It just dosent go well with the black, dark grey and grey tone. It "screams" too much on this scheme.


----------



## Northridge

hmmwv said:


> The rolling stock is AC18, a domestic train by CSR Puzhen, the PW80E-Ⅳ bogie is indigenous but uses Siemens traction system. The body is also a new design but takes design cue from Siemens trains. Although Puzhen mostly made Metropolis trains they are quite diverse, for example the Nanjing Metro Line 3 cars will use Bombardier technology.


Why is the paint scheme different? If you look closesly on the front, you will notice some differences.


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

When should the this line 13 open for people?


----------



## big-dog

^^ All news target the end of December.


----------



## hmmwv

Northridge said:


> Why is the paint scheme different? If you look closesly on the front, you will notice some differences.


Because the first pic is an artistic impression.


----------



## Northridge

hmmwv said:


> Because the first pic is an artistic impression.


Aha. I really liked that one. I would agree that the pink color doesn't look that bad on the real pics


----------



## _Night City Dream_

By the way, when will line 11 extension and line 13 be opened?


----------



## Woonsocket54

exploremetro blog
http://www.exploremetro.com/blog/shanghai-metro-line-9-deeper-into-songjiang



> *Shanghai Metro Line 9: Deeper into Songjiang*
> 
> This week we’re previewing the new lines expected to open in Shanghai and Beijing in December 2012. Today, Shanghai Metro Line 9.
> 
> Line 9 currently runs from Middle Yanggao Road in Pudong to Songjiang Xincheng in Songjiang District. On approximately December 28th 2012, a three-station extension should open, with new stations at Songjiang Sports Center, Zuibaichi and Songjiang South Railway Station, which provides a connection to the Shanghai-Hangzhou high-speed rail line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here’s a picture of the new station at Songjiang South:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This entry was posted on Tuesday, December 18th, 2012 at 7:37 pm and is filed under newlines, shanghai.


----------



## big-dog

^^ why there are two Songjiang Sports Center on the map?


----------



## xavier114fch

big-dog said:


> ^^ why there are two Songjiang Sports Center on the map?


It should be Songjiang South.


----------



## Woonsocket54

They've revised the map


----------



## chornedsnorkack

Shanghai Metro Line 22 has just 6 intermediate stops in 55 km - almost 8000 m stop distance. While they boast 32 minute express train time, it is not all that useful for destinations somewhere in between the 12 km stretch between Jinshanyuan and Jinshanwei. And the 60 minute time for 55 km is slow for a commuter train.

How about Metro Line 16? 13 stations over 59,5 km means almost 5000 m station distances... when shall it open and what shall the trip time be inclusive of stops?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

chornedsnorkack said:


> That the 6340 square km of Shanghai includes extensive rural/suburban areas where distances are too big and population too sparse to justify metro or tram. And that diesel trains (or short electric trainsets) are needed to serve these areas.


Diesel trains are not a solution at all. Diesel engines are much less efficient, being mo more that 50% effective. Then, there are environamental issues. All trains must be ablsoultely electricity powered.

Shanghai has enough money to invest into good infratructure. And don't forget that the city is developing at a frantic pace. Rural areas are being transformed in dense urban ones.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Diesel trains are not a solution at all. Diesel engines are much less efficient, being mo more that 50% effective. Then, there are environamental issues. All trains must be ablsoultely electricity powered.


Yes, but the trains have the advantage of lower rolling friction of steel on steel. Buses are also diesel powered, and even less efficient than diesel trains.

Trolleybuses are also more efficient than buses, again because they are electricity powered. Building a new tram line involves ripping up a road for a long time to lay the sleepers and rails. When a new trolleybus line is built, erecting the poles and hanging the overhead wires can be done quickly and without interrupting the traffic on the street underneath.

Agreed that when new train lines are built, it is better to electrify them right away. Even a single track electrified line is useful - I have one nearby that handles 27 train pairs on a weekday (plus empty and freight trains). It is useful to keep a provision for future doubletracking, though.


----------



## Bannor

New studies have shown diesel to very harmful in regards to air quality. I don't think China wants that. Enough people have died from it in the west. Natural Gas is the bridge fuel for now untill renewables start getting competitive.

I agree that the distances of some of the Shanghai lines are a bit far apart, but it wouldn't surprice me if we start seeing light rail lines gathering passenger in the suburbs of Shanghai in the future. Something like what you have in Singapore on the North East line there in Punggol and Sengkang.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

Bannor said:


> New studies have shown diesel to very harmful in regards to air quality. I don't think China wants that. Enough people have died from it in the west. Natural Gas is the bridge fuel for now untill renewables start getting competitive.
> 
> I agree that the distances of some of the Shanghai lines are a bit far apart, but it wouldn't surprice me if we start seeing light rail lines gathering passenger in the suburbs of Shanghai in the future. Something like what you have in Singapore on the North East line there in Punggol and Sengkang.


How about something like Northwest of Hong Kong?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/christopherdewolf/3311908278/lightbox/


----------



## big-dog

Surprising. The power of shopping women 



> *Shangai subway ridership set new record on 3.8*
> 
> Total ridership on 3/8 is *8.486 million*, a new record for Shanghai metro.
> 
> Line 1: 1.37m
> Line 2: 1.65 (record)
> Line 3: 0.64 (record)
> Line 4: 0.89 (record)
> Line 5: 0.16 (record)
> Line 6: 0.35 (record)
> Line 7: 0.72 (record)
> Line 8: 0.87 (record)
> Line 9: 0.78 (record)
> Line 10: 0.68 (record)
> Line 11: 0.31
> Line 13: 0.051 (record)
> 
> by 上海轨道交通俱乐部


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

Is it because Womens day?
So women going around with roses is because Womens day?


----------



## big-dog

^^ that's true. most organizations give female employees half-day off and shopping malls have discounts on that day...


----------



## Falubaz

^^ What else can women do? Shopping is the only pasttime they are devoted to


----------



## Woonsocket54

^^ No kidding. The countries that celebrate International Women's Day are typically the ones where women have the least rights (except perhaps the right to shopping, which is universal).


----------



## Pansori

Woonsocket54 said:


> ^^ No kidding. The countries that celebrate International Women's Day are typically the ones where women have the least rights (except perhaps the right to shopping, which is universal).


Interestingly according to the data more than 51% of those in senior management positions in China are women and women contribute around 50% of all household incomes in China. Those numbers far exceed the numbers even in countries typically regarded as most 'equal' in terms of women's position (such as the Scandinavian countries... where International Women's day is incidentally also widely celebrated ). Therefore your statement is not exactly correct.


----------



## big-dog

*Shanghai's first BRT to start construction in 2013*

Length: 33.5 km, 17 stations, 

It starts from Nanqiao Station and ends at Oriental Sports Center, crossing Fengxian, Minhang and Pudong districts.










by 上海轨道交通俱乐部


----------



## chornedsnorkack

big-dog said:


> ^^ that's true. most organizations give female employees half-day off and shopping malls have discounts on that day...


Looks like People´s Republic of China is not adequately paying attention to women. In Soviet Union, 8th March used to be a public holiday, full day off for both sexes.


----------



## big-dog

chornedsnorkack said:


> Looks like People´s Republic of China is not adequately paying attention to women.


And discriminate against all men in this country ... :lol:


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Woonsocket54 said:


> ^^ No kidding. The countries that celebrate International Women's Day are typically the ones where women have the least rights (except perhaps the right to shopping, which is universal).


The point is how this day is celebrated! I wouldn't call celebrations various manifestations of women claiming their rights...

A truly celebration is when I see on a subway train each girl / woman / lady with a bunch of nice flowers, a pack of chocolate and a solemn supper in the evening. 



chornedsnorkack said:


> Looks like People´s Republic of China is not adequately paying attention to women. In Soviet Union, 8th March used to be a public holiday, full day off for both sexes.


It actually is. 


Back on topic - what are the plans for new metro lines for 2013? How many stations / kms?


----------



## ode of bund

_Night City Dream_ said:


> The point is how this day is celebrated! I wouldn't call celebrations various manifestations of women claiming their rights...
> 
> A truly celebration is when I see on a subway train each girl / woman / lady with a bunch of nice flowers, a pack of chocolate and a solemn supper in the evening.


As if Shanghai women were not spoiled enough.:hammer:


----------



## big-dog

ode of bund said:


> As if Shanghai women were not spoiled enough.:hammer:


Agree Shanghai women are the most spoiled species on the planet.



_Night City Dream_ said:


> Back on topic - what are the plans for new metro lines for 2013? How many stations / kms?


Opening in 2013:

Line 11 phase II + Huaqiao section (16 stations)
Line 12 phase I (17 stations)
Line 16 phase I (11 stations)

New kms in 2013: 99km (total 538km)


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

Which dates?


----------



## big-dog

^^ 

Line 11 phase II + Huaqiao section: June 30
Line 12 phase I : December 31
Line 16 phase I (11 stations): September 30

Those are estimation only and subject to change.


----------



## city_thing

I was just having a look around the Chinese forums (I'm bored...) and saw this map of the Shanghai Subway from 2009. It's incredible how far it has come in just a few years. Congratulations Shanghai!


----------



## big-dog

Line 16 Heshahngcheng Station 鹤沙航城站 (U/C)

Line 16's trial run is confirmed to start on *October 1st 2013*.










by metrofans.sh.cn


----------



## big-dog

CRH6 train is suggested to run between the two airports. The new route will be built along the suburban elevated highway with a few stops in the middle.



> *Shanghai mulls new rail link to airports*
> 
> http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2013-04/16/content_16412876.htm
> 
> Shanghai is studying the construction of an express railway to connect its two airports, an official said on Monday.
> "We are looking at ways of shortening the time between Pudong International Airport and Hongqiao Airport, such as building an express route, and that means we will see more business jets arriving," said Jing Yiming, vice-president of Shanghai Airport Authority and chairman of Shanghai Hawker Pacific Business Aviation Service Center.
> He was speaking at the three-day 2013 Asian Business Aviation Conference and Exhibition (ABACE) that started on Tuesday.
> According to Jing, it takes about two hours to travel between the airports by taking the Metro, and if the new express railway is launched, the time range will be shortened to 30-40 minutes.
> Business aviation traffic at Shanghai's airports has reached 3,800 flights, accounting for one third of the nation's total.
> China's rapid development and huge potential of business and corporate aviation also attract more players to join the market.


courtesy Pansori


----------



## Silly_Walks

^^

I've said many times they should extend the Maglev to Hongqiao, via Lujiazui, People's Square and a station on line 3/4, no more. Super fast, and not around the center but through it. That way it won't just be an airport to airport connector, but also a fast and efficient airport to city connector.


----------



## phoenixboi08

Silly_Walks said:


> ^^
> 
> I've said many times they should extend the Maglev to Hongqiao, via Lujiazui, People's Square and a station on line 3/4, no more. Super fast, and not around the center but through it. That way it won't just be an airport to airport connector, but also a fast and efficient airport to city connector.


not likely to happen. Though, if they want to make it useful, they can extend it to Disney then on to the South Railway Station, then possibly on to Hongqiao from a southern connection.


----------



## saiho

big-dog said:


> ^^ line 9 and 10 are doing okay now. But line 3/4 need serious capacity upgrade. A line splitting project was initiated to separate the shared part of Line 3 and 4 to increase frequencies. Increasing car number is another solution but it will need infrastructure construction on all stations.


Is the there a provision to extend the platforms further? On some line 9 videos I swear I saw room to extend the platform.



big-dog said:


> CRH6 train is suggested to run between the two airports. The new route will be built along the suburban elevated highway with a few stops in the middle.


Which expressway to be exact? and is the express railway going to be elevated?



Silly_Walks said:


> ^^
> 
> I've said many times they should extend the Maglev to Hongqiao, via Lujiazui, People's Square and a station on line 3/4, no more. Super fast, and not around the center but through it. That way it won't just be an airport to airport connector, but also a fast and efficient airport to city connector.


Maglev tech is obscenely expensive and gets a bad rap in china ATM. I would just plunge it underground to Lujiazui and call it a day.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

big-dog said:


> ^^ line 9 and 10 are doing okay now. But line 3/4 need serious capacity upgrade. A line splitting project was initiated to separate the shared part of Line 3 and 4 to increase frequencies. Increasing car number is another solution but it will need infrastructure construction on all stations.


When I live in Shanghai, I always use line 9 and I see that trains are very crowded, for all their length. Often times it is hard to get in or even impossible. The same for line 10 especially because it connects to Honqiao transportation hub.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

big-dog said:


> Line 16 Heshahngcheng Station 鹤沙航城站 (U/C)
> 
> Line 16's trial run is confirmed to start on *October 1st 2013*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by metrofans.sh.cn


Once again, the launch has been put off. It had been said before the line will open for public on Sept 30th.

I guess, Shanghai won't be able to launch all the 3 lines totaling 99 km this year.


----------



## big-dog

saiho said:


> Which expressway to be exact? and is the express railway going to be elevated?


It's an initial plan only. The most likely route will be from Hongqiao station -> following Jiamin elevated to south -> S32 expressway -> S4 expressway -> Crossing Huangpu River -> Linhai road and Hunan Road (Zhoupu) -> Pudong airport. I assume it'll be elevated rail to save space.


image by 导乘信息



_Night City Dream_ said:


> When I live in Shanghai, I always use line 9 and I see that trains are very crowded, for all their length. Often times it is hard to get in or even impossible. The same for line 10 especially because it connects to Honqiao transportation hub.


I use Line 9 to work as well. I feel Line 3/4 is more crowded at rush hour.



_Night City Dream_ said:


> Once again, the launch has been put off. It had been said before the line will open for public on Sept 30th.
> 
> I guess, Shanghai won't be able to launch all the 3 lines totaling 99 km this year.


Sep 30 is not too early from Oct 1st. So far I haven't heard news of any opening pushing to 2014. Let's keep the finger crossed


----------



## _Night City Dream_

I don't mind that line 3/4 are crowded but so are line 9 and 10 probably a little less. Anyway they all would benefit from adding 2 more cars to trains.

As for Sep 30th there was indicated above that it would be launched for commercial service now, they're talking about trial run since Oct 1st.


----------



## Northridge

Silly_Walks said:


> ^^
> 
> I've said many times they should extend the Maglev to Hongqiao, via Lujiazui, People's Square and a station on line 3/4, no more. Super fast, and not around the center but through it. That way it won't just be an airport to airport connector, but also a fast and efficient airport to city connector.


I was thinking about the same my self. They would undermine the maglev and the Metro if this new line is build. Considering this is not for adding capacity, but rather for convenience, I find it a little bit odd. 
I would also like to see a connection at Century Avneue or Peoples Square, but I guess those stations are not ready for more passengers?


----------



## ddes

I'd imagine that their secondary intention, besides connecting the two airports, would be to bring the CRH to Pudong airport.


----------



## phoenixboi08

So it's kind of like adding a rail station to Pudong and connecting it to Hongqiao?
Either way, seems the best route as they get improved connections in the area (much of Pudong hasn't gotten its new metro lines as of yet).

I guess the airport will be operating this as opposed to SH Metro, but do you think they'd operate it as a commuter rail, as well?


----------



## big-dog

_Night City Dream_ said:


> As for Sep 30th there was indicated above that it would be launched for commercial service now, they're talking about trial run since Oct 1st.


That might be some wording issue. I know some trial run lasts as long as a year and most people regard it as an opening


----------



## big-dog

ddes said:


> I'd imagine that their secondary intention, besides connecting the two airports, would be to bring the CRH to Pudong airport.


There's an intention to bring a major train station to Pudong as there's no rail connection for such a large area.


----------



## hmmwv

I think this has been discussed extensively before, the only way was to build an all deep bore underground CRH corridor, if such plan is carried out there has better be a new underground station at people's square.


----------



## saiho

hmmwv said:


> I think this has been discussed extensively before, the only way was to build an all deep bore underground CRH corridor, if such plan is carried out there has better be a new underground station at people's square.


No point jogging it down to peoples square just plunge it into Pudong. Peoples sq is already congested enough.


----------



## hmmwv

Then there is still no easy way to get to Pudong from downtown Shanghai, the quickest way right now is riding Line 7 or Line 2 to Longyang Rd and then to Maglev, the whole process takes like an hour. A direct HSR ride from People's Square to Pudong can cut that to 30 minutes.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

The point is, in my opinion, that building a HSR line like that will cut profits for Maglev & line 2 to a great extent.


----------



## hkskyline

*Metro lines 3, 4 to split by 2015*
Shanghai Daily
Apr 23, 2013 

THE Metro system soon will start the process of separating Line 3 and Line 4, which by 2015 is expected to increase the capacities of the two busiest lines in the city, a senior subway expert said yesterday.

The lines, which currently share part of their routes, will go their separate ways in a rerouting project that will involve 2.6 kilometers of track and cost 2.89 billion yuan (US$467.5 million), according to the National Development and Reform Commission.

"The city should start the project as soon as possible because the sharing on the routes has seriously limited the capacities of the two lines, especially the ring-shape Line 4 that links many other Metro lines of the city," said Sun Zhang, a Metro expert and professor with Tongji University.

Sun made the remarks after a new shuttle bus route meant to relieve crowding on part of Metro Line 3 during the morning was canceled over the weekend after it got light use due to road congestion.

Lines 3 and 4 share nine stations between the Baoshan Road and the Yishan Road stations, forcing passengers have to wait for at least five minutes for either of the lines' trains.

"After the separation, the train intervals of both lines can be shortened to about 2 minutes, doubling the lines' capacities," Zhang said.

According to the plan, Line 4 will run the ring-shape route alone. Line 3 will be cut into two separate parts - Jiangyang Road N. to Shanghai Railway Station in the north and Yishan Road to Shanghai Southern Railway Station in the south.

The Baoshan Road Station where the two lines will still meet after the separation will be renovated, Shanghai Radio Station news reported yesterday. Two new elevated rails will be built at the station for the new Line 3.


----------



## big-dog

^^ This is under hot discussion now on Shanghai local metro forums.

*Line 3/4 separation project plan*

The purpose is to split the shared section and increase capacity for both lines. The initial budget is 2.8 bln yuan ($448 mln), project completes in 2015. It's not finalized yet the current plan is,


The shared part will be used by Line 4 only;
Line 3 will be split into 2 parts; 
Double line will be built between Shanghai Railway Station and Baoshan Road for Line 3 upper section;

Shared section of Line 3/4


current separation plan


new Baoshan Station


by metrofans.sh.cn


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Why to split line 3? The traffic over there is awful, they just have to build additional tracks. I believe the best solution would be to leave the existing part to line 3 while build a parallel underground part for line 4.


----------



## saiho

big-dog said:


> ^^ This is under hot discussion now on Shanghai local metro forums.
> 
> *Line 3/4 separation project plan*
> 
> The purpose is to split the shared section and increase capacity for both lines. The initial budget is 2.8 bln yuan ($448 mln), project completes in 2015. It's not finalized yet the current plan is,
> 
> 
> The shared part will be used by Line 4 only;
> Line 3 will be split into 2 parts;
> Double line will be built between Shanghai Railway Station and Baoshan Road for Line 3 upper section;
> 
> Shared section of Line 3/4
> 
> 
> current separation plan
> 
> 
> new Baoshan Station
> 
> 
> by metrofans.sh.cn


Wow the line separation cross section diagrams are very reminiscent of those found in Japan. 



_Night City Dream_ said:


> Why to split line 3? The traffic over there is awful, they just have to build additional tracks. I believe the best solution would be to leave the existing part to line 3 while build a parallel underground part for line 4.


What I had in mind was to have Line 3 plow down to Hanzhong road and then serve inner shanghai. Eventually reconnecting to the other portion of Line 3 at Yishan road or instead of going to its original terminus go serve somewhere else and let the Shanghai South Railway Station branch be a the panhandle for Line 4 like the Hammersmith and Circle Line or the Toei Metro Oedo line.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

That would be a solution, too.


----------



## hmmwv

saiho said:


> What I had in mind was to have Line 3 plow down to Hanzhong road and then serve inner shanghai. Eventually reconnecting to the other portion of Line 3 at Yishan road or instead of going to its original terminus go serve somewhere else and let the Shanghai South Railway Station branch be a the panhandle for Line 4 like the Hammersmith and Circle Line or the Toei Metro Oedo line.


I like that idea too, that area of Shanghai can use some additional subway coverage, in addition it will provide a fairly direct southwest-northeast corridor.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Well, for line 12 we will see Bombardier Movia, for line 16, a new rolling stock (model?) and for the extension of line 11, will they produce extra Siemens trains?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

big-dog said:


> new Baoshan Station
> 
> 
> by metrofans.sh.cn


A good solution to the matter will also be to built all along the existing common tracks 2 new additional ones like it is depicted on the lower image.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Some pictures of line 7. I was happy to find out Bombardier Movia on this line, there run 6-car trains being approximately 140 m long

As you might know, each type of rolling stock in shanghai has got its own nickname. So, these trains are called Fanta 

So, lets start. This it Zhaojiabang Lu station.

"6-5" means that this is door number 5 of the sixth car.


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-city-dream/view/621657/

It is good to see some elements of the train and of the stations having the official line colour.


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-city-dream/view/621658/

Let's get on the Movia:



Have one more look at the station:




LCDs seen from behind.



Inside the train. Green painted seats are priority seats for the disabled, pregnant, retires and passengers with children.











Huamu Lu is a terminus. We get off here to go to the Chocolate exhibition but it's a bit off-topic here.





Common vending machines.



The station is a bit odd for shanghai metro. It reminds me much of a Moscow station, Bulvar Dmitriya Donskogo. Usually, Shanghai metro stations are two-level where platform and the tracks are cut off from the hall with turnstiles, ticket offices etc.











District plan:


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-city-dream/view/621678/

6 .01. 2012 .


----------



## big-dog

^^ Huamu Road Station is connected with Kerry Shopping Center and Century Park, my favorite station, shopping mall and city park


----------



## _Night City Dream_

I was there at Chocolate exhibition. The exhibition center there is very interesting as an object of architecture.


----------



## big-dog

I also visited Chocolate exhibition at Himalaya center last year 










But in my previous post I was referring to the Kerry Center across the street.










pics taken by me


----------



## _Night City Dream_

This center is also well seen from Maglev when approaching Longyang Lu station. Yes, I like it, too, the cladding is nice.


----------



## big-dog

Opening soon: Line 11 Shanghai Swimming Center Station










metrofans.sh.cn


----------



## cfredo

^^
nice lightning scheme


----------



## _Night City Dream_

It's good to see that China is paying some attention to making stations a bit more originals. Some stations are now well decorated.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Any news?


----------



## big-dog

Yesterday (5/28) is Shanghai Metro's *20th Anniversary*. Attached is a 2015 Metro network map.

Happy Birthday Shanghai Metro!










by 新闻晨报


----------



## barryangus

*Airport transfer*

Public Transportation card in Shanghai and I wonder it is still in operation.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

Strange, I remember taking Line 1 to Jinjiang Park in 1994. But for some reason, wikipedia insists that Shanghai metro opened in 1995. You're saying it opened in 1993, which supports what I observed. Do you know what may be the cause of the discrepancy on wikipedia?


----------



## big-dog

You took Shanghai subway in 1994? wow that's something to be proud of.

On wiki it says,

May 28, 1993 - The first section of the line (Line 1), from Xujiahui to Shanghai South Railway Station (formerly known as Xinlonghua), opens.
April 10, 1995 - The entire original line (Line 1), from Shanghai Railway Station to Jinjiang Park, opens.
That may help clearing the doubt.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

big-dog said:


> Yesterday (5/28) is Shanghai Metro's *20th Anniversary*. Attached is a 2015 Metro network map.
> 
> Happy Birthday Shanghai Metro!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by 新闻晨报


Cool map. It's good to see that the downtown is getting denser in terms of metro coverage.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

South elevated part of line 8.

























































9 .01. 2013.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

The Chemist said:


> The southern stretch of Line 11 must be opening soon - you can see the entrance to Line 11 on the interchange tunnel between Line 1 and 9 at Xujiahui now, so it must be just about ready.


How about the extension of Line 11 from Anting to Suzhou?


----------



## saiho

_Night City Dream_ said:


> 9 .01. 2013.


What is the LED board beside the train for?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Countdown for departure.


----------



## ddes

Man, Line 8 trains were already very narrow with the original Alstom plug-doors. Doesn't this sliding door configuration eat up into valuable space?


----------



## Severiano

Line 8 is very poorly planned. Nuff said. The problem is that with Subways you must get it right the first time.


----------



## doc7austin

When will the extension of Line 11 be opened? Shanghai Daily last year wrote something about July 2013. I was hoping for a quick opening to relieve other lines.


----------



## doc7austin

Line 8.
They must have changed the paintings of the trains recently.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

doc7austin said:


> Line 8.
> They must have changed the paintings of the trains recently.


No, they didn't do that. Line 8 has got two types of rolling stock, the first is older, almost pure Alstom Metropolis C-size, they actually are on the present photos. The newer are the same model but made in China and they feature some facelift. The interior is a bit different, too.

Right the same thing is for line 6.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

I'm back to the best city in the world and that's what I've noticed today,

On some of line 3/4 stations platforms now feature an LED-line showing it is prohibited to approach the edge of the platform. The same feature exists in Moscow metro since 2006-2007 bit we've got it white while in Shanghai it is multi-colored.

The same thing: fences at Lujiazui stations were dismantled. Why?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Silly_Walks said:


> Maglev has 2 types of rolling stock, I believe. German built and Chinese built.


If they are the same in terms of their look, both inside and outside, that doesn't matter to me. I counted only those really different.


----------



## Silly_Walks

_Night City Dream_ said:


> If they are the same in terms of their look, both inside and outside, that doesn't matter to me. I counted only those really different.


They are not the same in their look.

German:








Source: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...t,_Pudong_International_Airport,_Shanghai.jpg

Chinese:








Source: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1222409&page=38


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Oh thanks. And how many both units are there in total?

By the way, on both pictures there are 3 cars per tran. I may be mistaken but seems like I've seen a 5-car EMU somewhere. Maybe in an Ad in subway.


----------



## Silly_Walks

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Oh thanks. And how many both units are there in total?
> 
> By the way, on both pictures there are 3 cars per tran. I may be mistaken but seems like I've seen a 5-car EMU somewhere. Maybe in an Ad in subway.


To be honest I have no idea. I had the hardest time re-finding the images of the Chinese-built version of that maglev... it's really hard to find information on the maglev. Perhaps it has something to do with the aura of losing face, now that it basically turned out to be a 'bridge to nowhere'... or perhaps it's just because it's such a short line that it doesn't draw enough 'rail fans' to keep track of such statistics :lol:


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Don't see anything funny out here.

I still guess why they limited the top speed of Maglev trains last year. It still runs at a top speed of 431 km/h during rush hours but the restof the time is only 301.


----------



## Silly_Walks

_Night City Dream_ said:


> I still guess why they limited the top speed of Maglev trains last year. It still runs at a top speed of 431 km/h during rush hours but the restof the time is only 301.


Last year? As far as I know the top speed has been limited to 301 during certain hours for a lot longer than that.


----------



## mrmoopt

The interior of the train is looking very worse for wear as well!


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Today I used one of the old Bombardier Movia that used torun on line 1. How many of them are still in service?


----------



## hmmwv

Silly_Walks said:


> To be honest I have no idea. I had the hardest time re-finding the images of the Chinese-built version of that maglev... it's really hard to find information on the maglev. Perhaps it has something to do with the aura of losing face, now that it basically turned out to be a 'bride to nowhere'... or perhaps it's just because it's such a short line that it doesn't draw enough 'rail fans' to keep track of such statistics :lol:


This is the Electric Flying Car made by CAC and CNR Changchun (each made one end car and one middle car). It's reported that it's 30% cheaper than the German original, 70% of components are domestically sourced, with "better performance than the original." Unlike the original this one has LCD screens in the passenger compartment, and it's completely driverless, the driver's station only has a computer that can be used to monitor the operation.


----------



## Silly_Walks

^^

Cool info!

Where do you find such information?


----------



## kunming tiger

and the estimated length at the end of 2013?


----------



## big-dog

^^ 567 km (including maglev 29.11km)

source


----------



## Alargule

51.6 km for line 16? Given the small amount of stations, it looks like this will be more like a suburban line?


----------



## big-dog

yes it does. It connects Longyang Hub to the port.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

big-dog said:


> yes it does. It connects Longyang Hub to the port.


Why should line 16 be metro and line 22 be suburban railway, and not both metros or both suburban railways?


----------



## big-dog

Line 22 is using existing rail and Line 16 is the fresh built line.


----------



## saiho

Line 16 is a fully grade separated line built from scratch (think Tsukuba Express)
Line 22 is a service overlaid on existing nation railway tracks (JR)


----------



## _Night City Dream_

big-dog said:


> Luoshan Road Station (U/C) tracks
> 
> Line 16: 3rd level
> Line 11: 2nd level
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by metrofans


That's a very interesting picture. I've always dreamt that Shanghai could boast some of what Tokyo can: trains seen in different directions with interchanges at different levels, just like cars on the roads.

how long will be the trains on line 16? What type?

And a question about line 11. As I know, the rolling stock there now is Siemens trains equal to those on line 4. What rolling stock will be purchased as the addition to serve the extension. Will that be the same or something new?

I see that the stock on line 16 will be totally different from all what Shanghai metro has, including that on line 13 even.


----------



## saiho

_Night City Dream_ said:


> That's a very interesting picture. I've always dreamt that Shanghai could boast some of what Tokyo can: trains seen in different directions with interchanges at different levels, just like cars on the roads.
> 
> how long will be the trains on line 16? What type?
> 
> And a question about line 11. As I know, the rolling stock there now is Siemens trains equal to those on line 4. What rolling stock will be purchased as the addition to serve the extension. Will that be the same or something new?
> 
> I see that the stock on line 16 will be totally different from all what Shanghai metro has, including that on line 13 even.


Line 16 will use 3 car A size trains in the begining with provision for 6 cars. Funny you say line 16's rolling stock is totally different from what the shanghai metro has because they are just modified Siemens trains with 3 doors more seats and 3rd rail supply.


----------



## silent_dragon

is it too short to have only 3-car train?


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

saiho said:


> Line 16 will use 3 car A size trains in the begining with provision for 6 cars. Funny you say line 16's rolling stock is totally different from what the shanghai metro has because they are just modified Siemens trains with 3 doors more seats and 3rd rail supply.


Aren't they wider also? 3.2m width instead of 3.0m?


----------



## Silly_Walks

saiho said:


> and 3rd rail supply.


Why did they go for 3rd rail in this case?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

saiho said:


> Line 16 will use 3 car A size trains in the begining with provision for 6 cars. Funny you say line 16's rolling stock is totally different from what the shanghai metro has because they are just modified Siemens trains with 3 doors more seats and 3rd rail supply.


Are you sure these will be Siemens trains?

What trains has line 13 got? They seem to be different from all what runs in Shanghai.


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

So what are the coming openings from today to one year ahead?


----------



## Highcliff

big-dog said:


> ^^ 567 km (including maglev 29.11km)
> 
> source


:master::master::master::cheers::cheers2::cheers::cheers2:


----------



## big-dog

VECTROTALENZIS said:


> So what are the coming openings from today to one year ahead?


Coming openings:

*2013*

Line 11 east extension: 22.8km 
Line 11 west extension: 5.7km 
Line 12 phase I: 17.9km (est.)
Line 16 phase I: 51.8km 

*2014*

Line 13 Phase I east section: Jinshajiang Rd to Nanjing Rd West (est.)
Line 16 Last piece: Luoshan rd to Longyang Rd

*2015*

Line 11 to Disneyland
Line 12 Phase II: West of Qufu Rd Station (est.)
Line 13 phase II (est.)


----------



## _Night City Dream_

As I can guess, Disneyland will open its doors kin 2015 as well? Is there a tread on it, by the way?


----------



## hmmwv

_Night City Dream_ said:


> As I can guess, Disneyland will open its doors kin 2015 as well? Is there a tread on it, by the way?


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1292773&page=1&highlight=disneyland

and 

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=326340&page=1&highlight=disneyland


----------



## Nouvellecosse

Seems to have a huge metro system but does it also have huge amounts of separate commuter rail like Tokyo does?


----------



## big-dog

No. Shanghai will build more suburban metro lines (i.e. line 16) to serve the purpose.


----------



## Severiano

So is line 11 open? I will be moving out of Xujiahui in a month, so I guess it won't be useful to me after that.


----------



## big-dog

It'll open tomorrow. Where are you moving to? I live between Xujiahui and Swimming Center station so I may take a ride next week.


----------



## jason102

I rode line 11 yesterday, including the southern phase 2 part that goes through Xujiahui. Hah, it seems everyone still gets off and on at Jiangsu Lu - heading south after passing that station it was very easy to find a seat. In fact, as soon as we passed Jiangsu Lu, a rural guy asked someone nearby in Chinese when to get off for Jiangsu Lu, and he had to get off at Jiaotong University and go back one stop. Too many people are still expecting Jiangsu Lu to be the last stop going south! :lol:


----------



## Severiano

This is because when these lines open there is little fanfare, just maybe a blip in the local news. If you are not interested in this kind of stuff you would be slow to learn. It usually takes a few months for the local populace to get up to speed.


----------



## big-dog

And when north extension and Disneyland extension open Line 11 will be one of the busiest lines on par with Line 1 and Line 2. Xujiahui will be the busiest interchange hub similar to People Square.


----------



## cfredo

I really hope that those older stations get a design overhaul at some time. The newer stations look fantastic.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Older stations are almost 100% fresher, cleaner and friendlier than any station in the world.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Severiano said:


> This is because when these lines open there is little fanfare, just maybe a blip in the local news. If you are not interested in this kind of stuff you would be slow to learn. It usually takes a few months for the local populace to get up to speed.


That is because shanghai builds so many stations every year. In Moscow down here we've got 3-4 stations a year and it is considered to be much! Almost every opening has got a special ceremony...

For many years after URSS ceased to exist, there were periods with no openings at all. Later 1 station per year was a joy. So now 3-4 is a huge number. Bit we are still far behind Shanghai.


----------



## silent_dragon

^^And besides the Chinese leadership seems serious on cutting wastages. Including opening fanfares. And the officials would probably get bored cutting ribbons or giving same speech on each new stations times 20. :banana:


----------



## big-dog

Line 11 Swimming Center Station (opened Aug 31)










by shmetro


----------



## _Night City Dream_

By the way English Wikipedia says total length is now 462 km, not 466. Where is the truth?

I am getting really sure the new rolling stock is different from those Siemens trains. At least it feels that way on the pics.


----------



## big-dog

^^ saw from another source that Shanghai metro length is 462km. It seems 462 km (without Maglev) is the correct number.


----------



## big-dog

Line 11 Longhua Station (opened Aug 31th)










By sh metro


----------



## big-dog

_Night City Dream_ said:


> That is because shanghai builds so many stations every year. In Moscow down here we've got 3-4 stations a year and it is considered to be much! Almost every opening has got a special ceremony...
> 
> For many years after URSS ceased to exist, there were periods with no openings at all. Later 1 station per year was a joy. So now 3-4 is a huge number. Bit we are still far behind Shanghai.


Moscow metro is a mature system while Shanghai metro is still growing. I guess after 10 years Shanghai will resume the celebration for every openings.


----------



## saiho

big-dog said:


> Moscow metro is a mature system while Shanghai metro is still growing. I guess after 10 years Shanghai will resume the celebration for every openings.


I think in 10 years Shanghai will realize that 900km of metro is not enough.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

saiho said:


> I think in 10 years Shanghai will realize that 900km of metro is not enough.


More metro would not be the answer though. I think by then, Shanghai would need a comprehensive suburban rail system complete with express and local service. Its not practical for commuters to take a local only line from outskirts into the city.


----------



## saiho

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> More metro would not be the answer though. I think by then, Shanghai would need a comprehensive suburban rail system complete with express and local service. Its not practical for commuters to take a local only line from outskirts into the city.


Ya but most of them they would be intercity railways built to metro standards like lines 16, 17 or those S series lines half the metro systems in china are proposing.


----------



## Pansori

saiho said:


> Ya but most of them they would be intercity railways built to metro standards like lines 16, 17 or those S series lines half the metro systems in china are proposing.


What are those S series lines?

In either case China (bigger cities at least) clearly need high capacity commuter railways. A perfect example of such systems could be S-Bahn in major German cities where such commuter railways are functioning alongside the regular metro (U-Bahn) but have fewer stops, usually run faster (albeit at lower frequencies) and reach further into the outskirts. This is despite the fact that we're talking of fairly small cities/metropolitan zones in comparison with gigantic cities like Shanghai or Beijing in China. Metro systems as they are today even if doubled or tripled in size are not enough.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

big-dog said:


> Moscow metro is a mature system while Shanghai metro is still growing. I guess after 10 years Shanghai will resume the celebration for every openings.


However, our new mayor has urged to build more metro lines, so by 2020 we will get (I hope) more than 70 new stations. It is said that the construction pace is only slower than that of Shanghai and Beijing.

Longhua station is just awesome. I especially like the columns.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> More metro would not be the answer though. I think by then, Shanghai would need a comprehensive suburban rail system complete with express and local service. Its not practical for commuters to take a local only line from outskirts into the city.


It is the same old story from you. I've told many times that shanghai metro by its standard is a typical suburban rail system: frequencies, train dimensions, distances between station. It is not a metro in Western sense of the world, it is much bigger in all senses.


----------



## Pierre50

Does anyone know what is the present size of the subway cars fleet, and where to find all available details ? 
Such a fast extension of the network (almost nothing in 1995 and 14 lines for 420 kms today !!!) means a huge amount of cars to be delivered on a regular base, hence difficult to follow in terms of types and serials.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Line 1, 2 - 8-car sets (Old Siemens and Alstom Metropolis) each car is 3x23.75 m. On line 1 Siemens trains are the oldest. The only trains in Shanghai metro that have opening windows.
Line 3 - 6-car sets (Alstom Metropolis, different model) each car is 3x23.75 m.
Line 4 - 6-car sets (Siemens new trains) each car is 3x23.75 m.
Line 5 - 4-car sets (Narrow Alstom Metropolis), each car is 2.60x19 m.
Line 6 - 4-car sets (Narrow Alstom Metropolis, 1st and 2 generation), each car is 2.60x19 m.
Line 7 - 6-car sets (Bombardier Movia 456) each car is 3x23.75 m.
Line 8 - 6/7 car sets (Narrow Alstom Metropolis, 1st and 2 generation), each car is 2.60x19 m.
Line 9 - 6-car sets (Bombardier Movia 456) each car is 3x23.75 m.
Line 10 - 6-car sets (Alstom Metropolis, just like on lines 1 & 2) each car is 3x23.75 m.
Line 11 - 6-car sets (Siemens new trains) each car is 3x23.75 m.
Line 13 - 6-car sets (???) each car is 3x23.75 m.


----------



## Bannor

A big misstake they have done on many lines in China so far is that they have built the stations too small. Sized for 4 or 6-car trains, while 8 or even 12-cars would be more of long term sufficient plan. Especially on the most trafficked lines.

So what will they do? extend the station lenghts? Or just add more paralel lines?

When it comes to subway length, I am also agreeing that copying the german S-bahn system is the best option. Perhaps they can even increase the speed on such lines to 200km/h which is faster than in germany. But it does complement the U-bahn systems great in the major german cities, and is a much better solution than just adding 60 stops on the same slow subway line stopping every 2 minutes. When that is said, I don't like what the germans have done and separated the systems completely. I think it is better how they have done this in for example hong kong where they have included it in the same system. I suppose that is also the plan for cities like Nanjing, Wuxi and Kunming etc. But Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou and Beijing is in desperate need of more of this too.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Wholeheartedly agree. What I don't understand more is that on many lines going throughout the city (it is more Beijing case) they use 6-car trains of B or C-type. 6-car A-type train may be a solution but B or C is a nonsense.

It is much cheaper to use longer trains than to build more and more lines.

Another disadvantage is headways and dwelling time.

I think Shanghai has to make all the lines going through the downtown be able to accept 8-car trainsets of A-type like lines 1 and 2.


----------



## saiho

Bannor said:


> A big misstake they have done on many lines in China so far is that they have built the stations too small. Sized for 4 or 6-car trains, while 8 or even 12-cars would be more of long term sufficient plan. Especially on the most trafficked lines.


Pretty much, though it's changing, a number of teir II cities are planning to use A size trains on newer lines



Bannor said:


> So what will they do? extend the station lenghts? Or just add more paralel lines?


New relief lines, because its sexier to open new lines than improve old ones, China is like the western world in that sense.



_Night City Dream_ said:


> Wholeheartedly agree. What I don't understand more is that on many lines going throughout the city (it is more Beijing case) they use 6-car trains of B or C-type. 6-car A-type train may be a solution but B or C is a nonsense.


It's not really the C size, China practically gave up on that loading gauge because its so shit. The issue is China's fetish with the 6 car B size gauge which makes most of the national total. That too is changing with more places opting for the 8 car B formation, which can take Chinese demand in many situations. 



_Night City Dream_ said:


> I think Shanghai has to make all the lines going through the downtown be able to accept 8-car trainsets of A-type like lines 1 and 2.


That would be nice


----------



## chornedsnorkack

Bannor said:


> A big misstake they have done on many lines in China so far is that they have built the stations too small. Sized for 4 or 6-car trains, while 8 or even 12-cars would be more of long term sufficient plan. Especially on the most trafficked lines.


Exempli gratia Yamanote line, 11 cars.


Bannor said:


> So what will they do? extend the station lenghts? Or just add more paralel lines?


Parallel lines would also mean adding more destination stations. Something that extending station platforms will not accomplish.


Bannor said:


> When it comes to subway length, I am also agreeing that copying the german S-bahn system is the best option. Perhaps they can even increase the speed on such lines to 200km/h which is faster than in germany.


China already has suburban railway at 220 km/h (Chengdu-Dujiangyan).

But Shanghai metro line 22 is awfully inefficient. Top speed 160 km/h, yet with 6 intermediate stations it takes 60 minutes for mere 56 km.

The railways in my area are a joke, yet electric trains at top speed 120 km/h manage 56 km with 6 stops in 48 minutes, and same distance with 11 stops in 58 minutes. 

How about Shanghai building a new suburban railway and doing it right this time?
The original S-bahn design scheme was:
top speed 120 km/h
acceleration and deceleration 1 m/s2 (limited by passenger comfort) all the way to cruise speed
average station distance 2700 m
dwell time at station 30 s
then 30 s acceleration to 108 km/h, 60 s cruise at 108 km/h, 30 s deceleration covers the 2700 m in 120 s, total 150 s per stop means 24 stops per hour, 65 km/h average speed

Now let´s take top speed 200 km/h, still acceleration limited to 1 m/s2 by passenger comfort but sustained all the way to cruise speed
50 s acceleration to 180 km/h, 100 s cruise etc. - total 200 s travel time for 7500 m interstation distance.
let´s allow 40 s rather than 30 s dwell time
then we get 240 s per stop meaning 15 stops per hour, average speed 112 km/h.
Compare this with the existing 350 km/h line Shanghai-Nanjing
Between Shanghai and Wuxi I count 12 stations total
Shanghai West
Nanxiang North
Anting North
Huaqiao
Kunshan South
Yangcheng Lake
Weiting West
Suzhou Industrial Park
Suzhou
Suzhou New Area
Wangting East
Wuxi New Area

But 2 of these 12 are shut (Weiting West and Wangting East)
The bigger problem is the schedule. NO train makes more than 3 stops in the 126 km between Shanghai and Wuxi.

So, what should be done to ensure frequent and memorable service to EVERY small station on the line? Schedule adjustments on the existing line, or build a new parallel line?


Bannor said:


> But it does complement the U-bahn systems great in the major german cities, and is a much better solution than just adding 60 stops on the same slow subway line stopping every 2 minutes. When that is said, I don't like what the germans have done and separated the systems completely. I think it is better how they have done this in for example hong kong where they have included it in the same system.


Hong Kong is not big enough to have suburbs or satellite cities. East Rail is mere 34 km between Hung Hom and Lo Wu, and with 10 intermediate stations it is covered in 42,5 minutes. No real need to mix expresses with stopping trains, and no major centres to serve - the longhaul direct trains are expresses of course, but no local expresses.


Bannor said:


> I suppose that is also the plan for cities like Nanjing, Wuxi and Kunming


Which railway lines out of Kunming should be shared with suburban services?


Bannor said:


> etc. But Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou and Beijing is in desperate need of more of this too.


Indeed. Look at Shanghai. The 29 km Shanghai-Anting is almost as long as Hung Hom-Lo Wu. It ought to have at least 8 stations.
Only 2 exist - Shanghai West and Nanxiang North. Yet there is just 1 train daily (sic!) to Nanxiang North!

In such a suburban environment, I do not think service less than each 10 minutes is real service... Hong Kong East Rail has 23 trains per hour, to all stops.


----------



## Silly_Walks

chornedsnorkack said:


> In such a suburban environment, I do not think service less than each 10 minutes is real service... Hong Kong East Rail has 23 trains per hour, to all stops.


The Hong Kong East Rail line is not really the proper line for comparing suburban environments, since it also takes people to/from the very busy border.


----------



## Bannor

chornedsnorkack said:


> China already has suburban railway at 220 km/h (Chengdu-Dujiangyan).


Good, but is it a part of an urban system in Chengdu? Or is it part of the CHR network?




chornedsnorkack said:


> So, what should be done to ensure frequent and memorable service to EVERY small station on the line? Schedule adjustments on the existing line, or build a new parallel line?


Seeing that there already is a few paralell lines on this route, I think the slower line (this one in this case) should receive a scheduel adjustment. If that leads to undercapacity on the quicker line, then a new line needs to be built.



chornedsnorkack said:


> Hong Kong is not big enough to have suburbs or satellite cities. East Rail is mere 34 km between Hung Hom and Lo Wu, and with 10 intermediate stations it is covered in 42,5 minutes. No real need to mix expresses with stopping trains, and no major centres to serve - the longhaul direct trains are expresses of course, but no local expresses.


My point was that you can ride the East Rail and West rail on the same Octopus card, and you don't have to leave and enter new stations going on the metro...



chornedsnorkack said:


> Which railway lines out of Kunming should be shared with suburban services?


I have no idea, but it was mentionned here in this thread earlier.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Jin Sha Jiang Road. This is a shared station of lines 3 & 4 on the overground part, so that from the train you can see the cityscape quite well. Line 4 goes almost all along the Inner ring road.



I especially like the fact that it is above-grade.



Stairs have a line in the middle indicating where to stand.



That was a HDR shot, resulted in the "tripling" of the man at the left. The station is considered rather old in Shanghai so it looks it bit torn and has no marble or smth like that.



A Siemens train of line 4 линии. As yuo might know in Shanghai as well as in many Chinese cities the rolling stiock has a livery of the official colour of the line. Line 3 has got red-yellow-white Alstom Metropolis trains. But we need line 4 to go THERE.



Inside the train. Each car is 3x23.58 m and has got 5 doors on each side. The train has got 6 cars.





In Shanghai, only Siemens trains on line 4 have such round handles. Another feature - violet interior.



Me.



Coming to the busiest and the longest line of Shanghai metro (64 km long( - line 2. There are no PSD on many of its stations. It will take us to LUJIAZUI.



Century Avenue - is the largest metro-hub in Shanghai boasting 4 lines a once: 2, 4, 6 and 9. There is no more a hub to have so many crossing lines.



Inside an Alstom Metropolis trai. Each car is of A-type (3.00х23.58 m), each train has got 8 cars being very long. I think lines 3, 4, 7, 9, 10 and 11 should have 8-car trains, too.



Some of these trains are manufactured in Nanjing, some right there, in Shanghai.



Cellphones ad. I can say Mobile phone industry os well developed in Shanghai. Everyone has got a top-notch smartphone. The network, especially China Unicom offers a really high speed Internet access. The trains are very quiet and convenient, so I had an opportunity to talk to my mum who was in Moscow at that time, on Facetime (videocall) being inside the train myself. That was cool!



05.07.2013.


----------



## saiho

Shanghai planning a 6 line 90km tram network in Songjiang. Connections to Lines 5, 9, 12, 17, and 20.










Source


----------



## _Night City Dream_

That's absolutely great. Hope they won't choose Translohr technology again.

Hope much to see modern tram lines in the downtown.


----------



## hkskyline

Anyone know why Nanjing East Road station was closed 1 Oct? Was it because of overcrowding in the streets above?


----------



## big-dog

^^ yes. Nanjing East Rd Station serves the Bund tourists. There'll be a hundreds of thousand people over there during the holiday (Oct 1 ~ 7). Local people all try to avoid these places during holidays.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

And what happenede on that day?


----------



## Pierre50

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Line 1, 2 - 8-car sets (Old Siemens and Alstom Metropolis) each car is 3x23.75 m. On line 1 Siemens trains are the oldest. The only trains in Shanghai metro that have opening windows.
> Line 3 - 6-car sets (Alstom Metropolis, different model) each car is 3x23.75 m.
> Line 4 - 6-car sets (Siemens new trains) each car is 3x23.75 m.
> Line 5 - 4-car sets (Narrow Alstom Metropolis), each car is 2.60x19 m.
> Line 6 - 4-car sets (Narrow Alstom Metropolis, 1st and 2 generation), each car is 2.60x19 m.
> Line 7 - 6-car sets (Bombardier Movia 456) each car is 3x23.75 m.
> Line 8 - 6/7 car sets (Narrow Alstom Metropolis, 1st and 2 generation), each car is 2.60x19 m.
> Line 9 - 6-car sets (Bombardier Movia 456) each car is 3x23.75 m.
> Line 10 - 6-car sets (Alstom Metropolis, just like on lines 1 & 2) each car is 3x23.75 m.
> Line 11 - 6-car sets (Siemens new trains) each car is 3x23.75 m.
> Line 13 - 6-car sets (???) each car is 3x23.75 m.


OK, Great ... start, for understanding perfectly which train types are running in Shanghai.
Is it possible to have exact train denomination ? It appears all train types are of the format ACxx. The number of trains / cars per type would be ideal.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

I'm working on it. Seems like no exact and complete data there are.


----------



## big-dog

Line 16 (U/C)

Lingang Avenue Station and Huinan Statin

















--metrofans


----------



## _Night City Dream_

That's not so good that they've installed PSDs, and the trains have just 3 doors on each side. In the future that won't be enough.

*Big-dog*, how long are the underground stations of line 16?


----------



## city_thing

_Night City Dream_ said:


> And what happenede on that day?


I think it's the start of Golden Week (a week long national holiday in China, starting with National Day). Lots of tourists around as its not often the Chinese get a holiday.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Lujiazui station.

In July, the boardings were dismantled for an unknown reason.

I have liked this station since 2006 - keeping good memories since that time. It reminds me much of 2 Moscow stations that are right below Moscow City IBD. I also like the fact that it is curved. and I finally appreciate that is gives you the way to Lujiazui area - the district full of lights and colours.


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-city-dream/view/690577/


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-city-dream/view/690578/

A bit zoomed in picture. The station is almost 200 m long. I was standing in the middle.


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-city-dream/view/690579/

Holes that have remained after putting the boards away.


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-city-dream/view/690580/

Dapuqiao station and my favourite trains, Bombardier Movia.


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-city-dream/view/690581/

5 .05. 2013.


----------



## saiho

Installed map of the shanghai metro by 2013. 








Source
What surprised me is that the first phase of Line 12 will be from Jinhai Road to Qufu Road stations. I thought it would only open to Dalian Road, which always irked me because that means people will have to cram into the congested side of Line 4. If they make it to Qufu road, yes it will end in congested line 8 but at least there are 3 lines for commuters to pick to continue their journey. Also line 10 is a good not-as-congested choice but I doubt that would last long with line 12 dumping people in to it.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

I remember seeing those maps as early as in January.


----------



## big-dog

Yes. They just removed some of the "Not opened yet" stickers.


----------



## ddes

I know they're probably not looking at it in the short term, but might they consider increasing rail density to that of Tokyo's? One thing I really found shocking was how great the interstation distances were (learned it the hard way in Beijing).


----------



## saiho

Cute.


















Source


----------



## silent_dragon

oh this is lovely...


----------



## big-dog

Line 12 stations (U/C), Line 12 will open at the end of this year










by metrofans.sh.cn


----------



## big-dog

Line 16 starts final testing run. Line 16 will open in December 2013










--metrofans


----------



## everywhere

saiho said:


> Cute.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source


Advert courtesy of Korean mobile app Line, one of WeChat / Weixin's rivals :nuts:


----------



## ddes

^^ I could've sworn Line was Japanese.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

In Japan, metro trains are not that sleek in terms of design. They are much simpler and a bit old-fashioned, even new generation trains.


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

He is not talking about Jap trains, Line is a Jap chatt app.


----------



## StevZh

old M1 train at Lianhua Rd Station


----------



## kix111

ddes said:


> ^^ I could've sworn Line was Japanese.


Line is Japanese, but i originally thought Line was Korean too because my Korean friend told me so.

This is the power of the Korean culture. My Korean friends once told me nail clippers were invented by Koreans and that Esprit is a Korean brand...


----------



## kix111

big-dog said:


> Line 16 starts final testing run. Line 16 will open in December 2013
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --metrofans


Call me colourblind, but isnt this the color of Line9?

Maybe there is a tinge of grey, but seriously.. they should use double colours, e.g. Line 16 should be red+pink (red for line 1 and pink for line 6)


----------



## _Night City Dream_

I guess white balance of the camera was not quite right. in reality, they've got different colours, the two lines.

But I agree, there should be another decision for giving colours to lines considering the amount of lines in the Future.


----------



## saiho

kix111 said:


> Call me colourblind, but isnt this the color of Line9?
> 
> Maybe there is a tinge of grey, but seriously.. they should use double colours, e.g. Line 16 should be red+pink (red for line 1 and pink for line 6)


I never liked double color systems but yes they are running out of colors. I think the actual color of the line is on the PSD. It seems to be a blueish green that this darker than line 9 but lighter than line 8.


----------



## Svartmetall

VECTROTALENZIS said:


> He is not talking about Jap trains, Line is a Jap chatt app.


I know it's common use in some countries, but please avoid the term "Jap". It is very much a derogatory term (especially in the US) to refer to the Japanese. Many thanks.


----------



## saiho

Citizens invited to look at new line 16 trains. 









Transverse seating









Note custom sized LCD passenger info screen in on the side bulkheads

Source


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Not yet in passenger service?

Hope very much to see it in person.


----------



## doc7austin

> Not yet in passenger service?


Of course, it is not in passenger service.
Media says it will open in December 2013 (no day is mentioned) - that means it might open at the end of December, if at all.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Ok, and are there any new on line 12?


----------



## big-dog

^^ Line 12 will open on Dec 25 or 28. The opening part is from Tiantong Rd to Jinhai Rd, interchanging with line 4/6/10. The originally planned Qufu Rd will open in next May.

(metrofans)


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Thanks David. The point is that I may come to Shanghai for several days late in December or early in January. I'd like to see new stations.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

West Huaxia Road station.


















9.01.2013.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

I got a letter from Explore blog, line 16 is said to open on December, 28.


----------



## big-dog

kix111 said:


> Call me colourblind, but isnt this the color of Line9?
> 
> Maybe there is a tinge of grey, but seriously.. they should use double colours, e.g. Line 16 should be red+pink (red for line 1 and pink for line 6)


yes Line 9 and 19's colors are very similar. Luckily they are not cross path with each other.


----------



## big-dog

_Night City Dream_ said:


> I got a letter from Explore blog, line 16 is said to open on December, 28.


December 28 is a big day. There are quite a few subway lines and railways opening on that day


----------



## big-dog

Shanghai metro 2014 map by _lyt


----------



## _Night City Dream_

big-dog said:


> December 28 is a big day. There are quite a few subway lines and railways opening on that day


Do you mean all across China?

By the way, do they really intend to complete line 12 THAT long in 2014? That should be some 40 km long, all underground?

Today I got a letter about line 12 but no any exact opening date.


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

Are both line 12 and 13 going to completed to go throuth line 4 in the south in 2014?


----------



## big-dog

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Do you mean all across China?
> 
> By the way, do they really intend to complete line 12 THAT long in 2014? That should be some 40 km long, all underground?
> 
> Today I got a letter about line 12 but no any exact opening date.


There are many new HSR routes to open across the country on December 28 including Xiamen-Shenzhen, Ningbo North-Shenzhen, Beijing-Guilin, Chongqing-Lichuan, Changchun-Qingdao, Shanghai to northeastern cities etc. The new railway running map will start on December 28th. 

Subway lines to open on December 28th: Suzhou Line 2, Shanghai Line 12, Wuhan Line 4, Guangzhou Line 6, any other lines?



VECTROTALENZIS said:


> Are both line 12 and 13 going to completed to go throuth line 4 in the south in 2014?


I pass Line 12 construction sites in Xujiahui occasionally it goes very fast. Line 13 may only reach Nanjing West by 2014. Line 13 phase II and III (extend to Pudong) just started construction and won't be completed before 2017.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

I can't express how I envy China for your capacities to build so much and so well!


----------



## vereveritas

_Night City Dream_ said:


> I can't express how I envy China for your capacities to build so much and so well!


Russia also deserves respect and envy. I personally venerate foreign minister Lavrov in his effort and diplomatic prowess to prevent the chaos in Syria. Hopefully, the relation between Russia and China becomes more robust than it was during Brezhnev period. We need each other.


----------



## Silly_Walks

vereveritas said:


> Russia also deserves respect and envy. I personally venerate foreign minister Lavrov in his effort and diplomatic prowess to prevent the chaos in Syria. Hopefully, the relation between Russia and China becomes more robust than it was during Brezhnev period. We need each other.


And this has anything to do with Shanghai public transport, how?


----------



## kunming tiger

A lot of people need the Chinese even if they don't realize it and vice versa of course.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

big-dog said:


> There are many new HSR routes to open across the country on December 28 including Xiamen-Shenzhen, Ningbo North-Shenzhen, Beijing-Guilin, Chongqing-Lichuan, Changchun-Qingdao, Shanghai to northeastern cities etc. The new railway running map will start on December 28th.
> 
> Subway lines to open on December 28th: Suzhou Line 2,


Note how Suzhou line 2 is the first Suzhou subway line to serve railway stations.

Does Shanghai plan to build more subway lines into Suzhou? Line 11 southern branch does not actually go to Huaqiao railway station. Should it be extended to Kunshan? Or should like 11 northern branch be extended to Taicang?


----------



## micro

big-dog said:


> Subway lines to open on December 28th: Suzhou Line 2, Shanghai Line 12, Wuhan Line 4, Guangzhou Line 6, any other lines?


Hangzhou: new Line 2, Beijing: Line 8 extension.

In Shanghai, isn't is Line 16 instead of 12?


----------



## saiho

big-dog said:


> There are many new HSR routes to open across the country on December 28 including Xiamen-Shenzhen, Ningbo North-Shenzhen, Beijing-Guilin, Chongqing-Lichuan, Changchun-Qingdao, Shanghai to northeastern cities etc. The new railway running map will start on December 28th.
> 
> Subway lines to open on December 28th: Suzhou Line 2, Shanghai Line 12, Wuhan Line 4, Guangzhou Line 6, any other lines?


Beijing Line 8 North and South extension, Hangzhou Line 2 Phase 1, and Shenyang Line 2 North extension, Zhengzhou metro Line 1, and Tianjin Line 3 West Extension



micro said:


> In Shanghai, isn't is Line 16 instead of 12?


Actually Line 12 *AND* 16. This is China we are talking about


----------



## Woonsocket54

Hangzhou line 2 before end of calendar-year 2013? Is that for real?


----------



## Sunfuns

Swede said:


> 3 cars? Just 3? How low capacity are these lines?
> Stockholm has 100 stations for a metropolitan area of just 2.1M, and we've got 6 car trains only during the low-use hours. How many trains per hour and how long trains do Chinese metros run at?


Those things tend not to scale linearly. 100 stations in Stockholm is really a lot, probably among the most dense systems in the world per capita.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

No, Paris is much much denser.

In Stockholm cars are much smaller than those in Shanghai. Then, do not forget that line 16 is actually a line crossing mostly rural areas, fields and pastures. Quite far from the city center.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

saiho said:


> Make it 8A car please. Actually it should be 8A it passes through Jingan lujiazui puxi and putuo CBDs


I would say most of the lines should be 8A. In particular, lines 3, 4, 7, 9, 10, 11.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

big-dog said:


> *12/31/2013 Line 14 Environment Assessment started*
> 
> Line 14 will be the last planned metro line to pass thru city center.
> 
> --metrofans


Which is not good as Shanghai still needs more lines and stations in this hyper dense area.

This also means the line would be the most expensive among the new ones.


----------



## Sunfuns

_Night City Dream_ said:


> No, Paris is much much denser.


Stations in central Paris are very close to each other however the analysis of overall density doesn't support your claim. Stockholm - 100 stations for 2.1 million people, Paris - 303 stations for 10.5 million people. Stockholm is way ahead! Of course this doesn't take into account that communities more distant from central Paris are served by a commuter rail (RER) instead of metro.


----------



## big-dog

Silly_Walks said:


> Is Line 14 built partly to relieve line 2?


Exactly. It shares busy stops such as Jingansi and Lujiazui with Line 2. And it added capacity to stops like Yu Garden and Lujiazui. It also connects another important area Jinqiao of Pudong. So it's a highly anticipated and maybe the last interesting metro line of Shanghai.


----------



## big-dog

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Which is not good as Shanghai still needs more lines and stations in this hyper dense area.
> 
> This also means the line would be the most expensive among the new ones.


Pudong needs more lines now. Think it's time to increase density of Pudong next.


----------



## saiho

Swede said:


> 3 cars? Just 3? How low capacity are these lines?
> Stockholm has 100 stations for a metropolitan area of just 2.1M, and we've got 6 car trains only during the low-use hours. How many trains per hour and how long trains do Chinese metros run at?


3 expandable to 6 cars. A 6 car shanghai train is approximately the same length as a 8 car Stockholm train but Shanghai trains are also wider.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

In Stockholm the new C-20 are actually 3 triple cars per train. And I think a 6-car A train in Shanghai has a much greater capacity than the C-20.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Sunfuns said:


> Stations in central Paris are very close to each other however the analysis of overall density doesn't support your claim. Stockholm - 100 stations for 2.1 million people, Paris - 303 stations for 10.5 million people. Stockholm is way ahead! Of course this doesn't take into account that communities more distant from central Paris are served by a commuter rail (RER) instead of metro.


Paris itself has nothing to do with 10.5 million. That's the figure for its agglomeration. The metro serves mainly the city intra muros.


----------



## Sunfuns

I know, but we need to compare apples with apples. Stockholm itself also has nothing to do with 2.1 million.


----------



## Swede

phoenixboi08 said:


> It might have something to do with 16 being in eastern Pudong.
> It also doesn't service the inner city, but connects to 11, 2, and 7, all of which do.





_Night City Dream_ said:


> In Stockholm cars are much smaller than those in Shanghai. Then, do not forget that line 16 is actually a line crossing mostly rural areas, fields and pastures. Quite far from the city center.


Ah, so it's a line made in preparation of the city growing even more? Then it makes perfect sense to start traffic of using short trains. Far, far better to have service up and running even before those areas get built up than the other way 'round. 



saiho said:


> 3 expandable to 6 cars. A 6 car shanghai train is approximately the same length as a 8 car Stockholm train but Shanghai trains are also wider.





_Night City Dream_ said:


> In Stockholm the new C-20 are actually 3 triple cars per train. And I think a 6-car A train in Shanghai has a much greater capacity than the C-20.


A "short" C20 train has 2*C20, a standard one has 3*C20. 
Per C20:
Length: 46.5M Width: 2.9M Seated Capacity: 126 Total design capacity: 414 
Not sure how this stacks against the Chinese A & B cars.

The furthest outlying branches of the Stockholm metro run at just 6 tph during the peak, thru the center it gets up to about 24-30tph during the morning rush.
What's the trains per hour like on most Shanghai lines? I'm guessing it's at least as high as Stockholm's, given that the Stockholm system opened 60 years ago.


----------



## saiho

Swede said:


> A "short" C20 train has 2*C20, a standard one has 3*C20.
> Per C20:
> Length: 46.5M Width: 2.9M Seated Capacity: 126 Total design capacity: 414
> Not sure how this stacks against the Chinese A & B cars.


Stockholm three C20 sets (9 cars) 1,250 pax
Shanghai 6 car A 1,860 pax
Shanghai 8 car A 2,480 pax



Swede said:


> The furthest outlying branches of the Stockholm metro run at just 6 tph during the peak, thru the center it gets up to about 24-30tph during the morning rush.
> What's the trains per hour like on most Shanghai lines? I'm guessing it's at least as high as Stockholm's, given that the Stockholm system opened 60 years ago.


Capable of reaching 30 tph but can't due to shortage of rolling stock and rapid expansion of the new lines sucking up the new ones.


----------



## suburbicide

Here's a video of Line 16:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25559413


----------



## Silly_Walks

^^

Interesting. I always thought Shanghai Metro had overhead wires. Especially at 120 km/h I think the friction of 3rd rail would make overhead wire make even more sense.


----------



## saiho

Silly_Walks said:


> ^^
> 
> Interesting. I always thought Shanghai Metro had overhead wires. Especially at 120 km/h I think the friction of 3rd rail would make overhead wire make even more sense.


They chose 3rd rail to make the overhead structures the train runs on less intrusive.


----------



## Silly_Walks

saiho said:


> They chose 3rd rail to make the overhead structures the train runs on less intrusive.


Thanks, I never knew!


----------



## phoenixboi08

Swede said:


> Ah, so it's a line made in preparation of the city growing even more? Then it makes perfect sense to start traffic of using short trains. Far, far better to have service up and running even before those areas get built up than the other way 'round.


I don't really know that much about that particular area (it's really far from the city, and quite "rural," for lack of a better term), but keep in mind that - where 16 and Line 11 meet - there will be the huge Disney park and resulting hotels, etc.

16, then, will be one of the most direct ways to get from the Airport to that area - short of taking a taxi or shuttle - and taking it to Line 2 or 7 would get you into the city a bit more quickly than line 11. 

Anyways, I tend to think it's more about servicing tourism and the resulting services than a permanent residential population (i.e. I think frequency matters more than capacity).


----------



## StevZh

According to the situation of passenger-flow these days, 3 cars is a little bit conservertive, especially in such kinda car with low standing capacity.
But if you guys walk along the Line 16, you may understand why they made such a prediction for short term. Line 16 is a totally a suburban railway. Some of its station is still surrounded by farm now.
Currently, Line 16 is not perfectly connect to the Main network, so maybe 3A can still hold the demand. If it still keep 3A when the track to Longyang Rd(a transfer station with Line 2 and 7) is finished, things will be terrible.


----------



## spin_dive

StevZh said:


> According to the situation of passenger-flow these days, 3 cars is a little bit conservertive, especially in such kinda car with low standing capacity.
> But if you guys walk along the Line 16, you may understand why they made such a prediction for short term. Line 16 is a totally a suburban railway. Some of its station is still surrounded by farm now.
> Currently, Line 16 is not perfectly connect to the Main network, so maybe 3A can still hold the demand. If it still keep 3A when the track to Longyang Rd(a transfer station with Line 2 and 7) is finished, things will be terrible.


I passed by line 16 a few weeks ago and there were already quite a few new residential blocks surrounding the station I saw. They will definitely have to extend the trains once all the farmers move into the newly built apartments.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Today I've managed to ride on lines 11, 12 and 16. Lots of impressions and pictures. Later.

I was surprised to see 20-minute headways on line 16.

By the way, the price of one-day ticket still remains as 18 yuan.


----------



## Falubaz

20minutes intervals? That is not a metro!


----------



## saiho

Falubaz said:


> 20minutes intervals? That is not a metro!


It is a preliminary level of service
It will get ramped up in the short term
They already have capacity problems


----------



## big-dog

^^ It's starting to change now. Line 16's weekend headway will be reduced to 10-minute from this Saturday on.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

In a Russian forum dedicated to metros we started discussing an interesting issue. The number of escalators per a metro system in the world. Some say Moscow has the largest number of them, but I think it might be Shanghai to hold the first place in the world.

Is there any info on the number of escalators throughout the whole system?


----------



## Nouvellecosse

_Night City Dream_ said:


> In a Russian forum dedicated to metros we started discussing an interesting issue.


So what made you decide to stop and start talking about escalators? :tongue2:


----------



## Northridge

_Night City Dream_ said:


> In a Russian forum dedicated to metros we started discussing an interesting issue. The number of escalators per a metro system in the world. Some say Moscow has the largest number of them, but I think it might be Shanghai to hold the first place in the world.
> 
> Is there any info on the number of escalators throughout the whole system?


In Moscow they are needed, not in Shanghai. I'm sure most shaghainese would wait longer for the escalator than it takes to walk the stairs.


----------



## hmmwv

^^Most Shanghai metro stations only have one way (up) escalators, so I'm not sure how would it compare to other systems such as Tokyo.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

As far as I can feel an average station may have up to 10 escalators in Shanghai.


----------



## spin_dive

I think the older lines (1, 2) have the up only escalators, while the new ones have at least 2 that travel both directions.

Anyways, a picture of a bus station off a line 8 station by me.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Still, is there any official info?


----------



## big-dog

_Night City Dream_ said:


> As far as I can feel an average station may have up to 10 escalators in Shanghai.


Only new and large stations have 10 or more escalators. 



_Night City Dream_ said:


> Still, is there any official info?


Some old data is available online: by July 2011 Shanghai metro had 1725 escalators.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Thanks David but do they count escalators that take passengers outdoors? They are part of station complexes, too!


----------



## kix111

I don't know how much one needs to be into metro to count how many escalators there are in a metro station :lol:

As for the century park station, there is only 1 that goes up from the platform I think.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

kix111 said:


> I don't know how much one needs to be into metro to count how many escalators there are in a metro station :lol:


Well, it is all about records 

In fact on the official website of Moscow metro there is such information about escalators in Moscow metro as well as many other statistics.


----------



## big-dog

kix111 said:


> I don't know how much one needs to be into metro to count how many escalators there are in a metro station :lol:
> 
> As for the century park station, there is only 1 that goes up from the platform I think.


Now I'm curious if there's a station in Shanghai with no escalator at all


----------



## _Night City Dream_

When I was in Shanghai this time, I rode line 12 and decided to get off at International Cruise Terminal. I was wonder to discover that the station is nicely decorated: it has got starry night sky on the ceiling with constellations that represent all the 12 signs of Zodiac!

I uploaded my pic on Instagram and yesterday this photo was chosen by Zai_shanghai community on Instagram.

I'll upload this pic here later.


----------



## Highcliff

^^^^
very good, thank you...:master::master:


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Sorry for off-topic about Moscow, but you can have all kinds of statisctics for 2012 here:

http://mosmetro.ru/about/general/numeral/

I wonder if those figures are somewhere available for Shanghai metro.


----------



## big-dog

^^ that's very detailed information. Shanghai metro's website shmetro.com only has time, elevator (not escalator) and toilet information for each station, in Chinese, it's English site has very few info.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

By the way, shmetro.com is outdated now. No line 12 and 16 are present.


----------



## big-dog

^^ Its Chinese site is up to date (http://114.80.218.33/yxxlt/index.htm) but English site is not


----------



## big-dog

_Night City Dream_ said:


> What about Shanghai in 2014?


Now it's clear that Shanghai will only have 10km openings in 2014.


Line 16: 2 stations, Huaxia Middle Rd - Longyang Rd
Line 13: 3 stations, Longde Rd - Changshou Rd
Line 12: 1 station, Qufu Rd station

This gives Beijing a good chance to get closer to Shanghai in metro mileage.


----------



## Woonsocket54

Wow, Virginia will have more new km in openings in 2014 than Shanghai


----------



## Falubaz

^^But then in 2015 it will be a big addition again:
line 8
line 10
line 11
line 12
line 13
line 16
and even (maybe) lines 5 and 14 too


----------



## kunming tiger

Falubaz said:


> ^^But then in 2015 it will be a big addition again:
> line 8
> line 10
> line 11
> line 12
> line 13
> line 16
> and even (maybe) lines 5 and 14 too


 
In 2015 how many more kilometers will be added to the Metro?


----------



## saiho

Shanghai Metro Line 14 will start construction this year. 

The planners have gotten smart line will use *8A cars*.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Yes, they're getting smart, indeed.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Woonsocket54 said:


> Wow, Virginia will have more new km in openings in 2014 than Shanghai


14 km is still too much compraing to almost all metros over the world.

Moscow, even after Sobyanin coming to power and speeding up its metro construction, still can't reach even this figure per year. Given the fact that it is the fastest growing system in Europe now.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

saiho said:


> Shanghai Metro Line 14 will start construction this year.
> 
> The planners have gotten smart line will use *8A cars*.


Isn't there a mistake with line 16 in the West?


----------



## saiho

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Isn't there a mistake with line 16 in the West?


The map was printed before planners switched priorities to opening new suburban lines instead of circumferential lines. Today's Line 16 and 17 used to be called lines 21 and 20 respectively. The Lines 17 and 16 you see on the map is now called 20 and 21.


----------



## Northridge

Line 14 looks like it would connect to a lot of lines. Maybe that would help towards releaving some of the busier transfer points?


----------



## doc7austin

> Line 14 looks like it would connect to a lot of lines. Maybe that would help towards releaving some of the busier transfer points?


Line 14 can really relieve Line 2.
Line 2 is bursting between People Square - East Nanjing Road - Lujiazui at rush hour (7.45am - 9.15am and 5.15pm - 6.45pm)


----------



## _Night City Dream_

How long is it supposed to be?


----------



## saiho

doc7austin said:


> Line 14 can really relieve Line 2.
> Line 2 is bursting between People Square - East Nanjing Road - Lujiazui at rush hour (7.45am - 9.15am and 5.15pm - 6.45pm)


Well they can push the frequency from every 3 min per train to 2.5min (Limit of signaling system). That's a 20% increase in capacity. If they upgrade the signalling system to push the headway down to about every 2 min then that is a 33% increase in capacity.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

What's the problem with signaling system? Moscow has intervals of 90-95 seconds during rush hour and all trains are almost always on time, accuracy is 99%.


----------



## lkstrknb

Here is a video I shot and edited of the Shanghai maglev. Please watch.

Thanks






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83TVw2CJxhk


----------



## _Night City Dream_

That's the best video of Shanghai Maglev I've ever seen!

You spotted it from the angles I've wanted for so long.

Very good job and thank you.


----------



## saiho

_Night City Dream_ said:


> What's the problem with signaling system? Moscow has intervals of 90-95 seconds during rush hour and all trains are almost always on time, accuracy is 99%.


On old 1st gen lines (1, 2, 3 and 4) the signalling system can only handle up to 2.5 min per train. Also, today china designs their lines to max out at 30 trains per hour (2 min per train), even with the fancy CBTC systems they are putting in. They have given up on the concept of very high frequency trains. Which I think is a good move. The "small groups, small intervals" (small trains + very high frequency) craze was a poison in metro planning in china back in the day. It was instrumental in creating the shanghai line 6 4C sets, the 4B wuhan Line 1, the old 3B setup in guangzhou Line 3 and the original 4BL setups of Lines 5 and 6. Now they are moving to adjusting train size to design for demand instead of optimizing frequency. Hence the appearance of larger and larger rolling stock (A trains starting to be ubiquitous).


----------



## _Night City Dream_

I mean many lines in Shanghai being served by A trains still can't meet the demand successfully. Why not to reduce intervals there, too?


----------



## ode of bund

Ashis Mitra said:


> I heard some plans about extension of the tram network. The next phase of the project is the Zhangjiang tram division multiple-phase construction, a project in the east Greenfield Road, from Zu Chong Zhi Road (Shanghai Metro Line 2 Zhangjiang Hi-tech station), west to Osmanthus Road Autumn Road, which covers a distance of about 10 km, with a total of 15 stops, 1 depot. It will be followed by an extension in the direction of Tang Zhen-Qing. Could anybody post a map, about the extension, and some more details?
> 
> Is there any official website of Shanghai’s new rubber tired tram (translohr)?


Nothing like this is heard, again like I said, Shanghai has shifted interest back to trolley-bus now.


----------



## big-dog

*Line 12 Qufu Rd Station will open on Saturday May 10th*

Passenger can transfer to Line 8 at this station.









--xinmin, metrofans


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

Sunfuns said:


> I don't think so. The reason most likely is that NYC stations are closer together. In Paris they are definitely much closer to each other.
> 
> In any case the greatest urban rail system is neither Shanghai nor NYC. Once you count all operators and all lines (metro+suburban rail) that title without a doubt goes to Tokyo.


Eh... I would say Tokyo and NYC are roughly comparable in length if you count all rail transport across both metropolitan areas (NYC has three separate equally massive suburban rail systems in addition to PATH, Staten Island Railway, Bergen/Newark Light Rail). I do acknowledge that NYC ridership though is far lower than Tokyo, especially on the commuter rail side. This is evident from the fact that apart from the E, F, G, M lines in Queens and 4, 5, 6 lines in Manhattan, you don't get nearly the same overcrowding as you do in Tokyo.

Shanghai could easily be up there if it puts together another 1,000 to 2,000 km suburban rail system that extends well into Jiangsu, Zhejiang and Chongming Island. The other extremely frustrating thing about Shanghai is how early it closes. 11 PM is kind of absurd. Not everyplace can sustain 24 hour service, but normal subway systems close around midnight to 2 AM. Nevertheless, it is very incredible that a system thats only open such limited hours handles almost twice the passenger volume of the NYC subway opened 24 hours. Think about how much higher ridership levels would be if the Shanghai metro extended its service hours.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

In Shanghai after 11 PM taxi is the most popular means of transport. When you are 3 for instance, very often it becomes as cheap as metro.


----------



## Svartmetall

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> Eh... I would say Tokyo and NYC are roughly comparable in length if you count all rail transport across both metropolitan areas (NYC has three separate equally massive suburban rail systems in addition to PATH, Staten Island Railway, Bergen/Newark Light Rail). I do acknowledge that NYC ridership though is far lower than Tokyo, especially on the commuter rail side. This is evident from the fact that apart from the E, F, G, M lines in Queens and 4, 5, 6 lines in Manhattan, you don't get nearly the same overcrowding as you do in Tokyo.
> 
> Shanghai could easily be up there if it puts together another 1,000 to 2,000 km suburban rail system that extends well into Jiangsu, Zhejiang and Chongming Island. The other extremely frustrating thing about Shanghai is how early it closes. 11 PM is kind of absurd. Not everyplace can sustain 24 hour service, but normal subway systems close around midnight to 2 AM. Nevertheless, it is very incredible that a system thats only open such limited hours handles almost twice the passenger volume of the NYC subway opened 24 hours. Think about how much higher ridership levels would be if the Shanghai metro extended its service hours.


Erm, Tokyo has 4,714.7 km of rail lines in its metropolitan area with 2,141 stations. As far as I know, New York does not come close to touching that. There is no comparison between Tokyo and New York there at all - especially in terms of ridership (13.5 billion riders per year on the Tokyo system as a whole with 37 million rides per day). Happy to be proven wrong if you have figures to say that the New York metropolitan area has rail coverage on par with that...

Source here - put together by SSC users Quashlo and Ukiyo (amongst others)


----------



## FabriFlorence

_Night City Dream_ said:


> In Shanghai after 11 PM taxi is the most popular means of transport. When you are 3 for instance, very often it becomes as cheap as metro.


I suppose that a so big metropolis should have also an all night bus service.


----------



## Ashis Mitra

Ode of bound, thank u very much for your details information about former tram network. Could you please tell some details and some maps about the future steel wheeled tram system in Shanghai? Because I know that despite the current rubber tired tram system, they are planning to build a seperate steel wheeled tram system.


----------



## Silly_Walks

_Night City Dream_ said:


> In Shanghai after 11 PM taxi is the most popular means of transport.


Pehaps because there is no metro? :lol:


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

Svartmetall said:


> Erm, Tokyo has 4,714.7 km of rail lines in its metropolitan area with 2,141 stations. As far as I know, New York does not come close to touching that. There is no comparison between Tokyo and New York there at all - especially in terms of ridership (13.5 billion riders per year on the Tokyo system as a whole with 37 million rides per day). Happy to be proven wrong if you have figures to say that the New York metropolitan area has rail coverage on par with that...
> 
> Source here - put together by SSC users Quashlo and Ukiyo (amongst others)


I have not been able to find any route length data on the NJ Transit commuter rail or the Metro North. LIRR has approximately 500 km of route length according to the LIRR wikipedia page (315 miles). The only reliable information I can find are regarding the subway (373 km), SI Railway (22 km), Newark Subway (10.1 km), PATH train (22.2 km), Hudson Bergen light rail (20.6 km). I was able to find reliable figures on total number of stations, which turns out to be 959. Assuming NJ Transit and Metro North are comparable to LIRR at approximately 500 km each (which isn't unreasonable), we're looking at a combined rail transit route mileage of approximately 2,000 km. If your figures are accurate, then that would mean NY has about little less than half the size in length of Tokyo area. On the other hand, this source suggests Tokyo's rail transit to be closer to 2,000 km. I said NY was close to Tokyo with the 2,000 km figure in mind. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_in_Greater_Tokyo#cite_note-1

Yes, with regards to ridership, NYC is nowhere close. 

That being said, I think that Tokyo or NYC would be the gold standard for Shanghai to strive toward. With officials becoming increasingly aware of commuter rails as a supplement to urban transit, I would not be surprised if Shanghai plans another 2,000 km commuter rail system for the 2020 to 2040 timeframe. After all, 2020 is almost here. We're as far from 2020 as we are from 2014.


----------



## ukiyo

His figures are accurate as they are directly from the operators with links to their direct sources in the references. The source on your page (which I also edited but never bothered editing that part, I just added "over") for the "over 2,000 km" is the "urban transport factbook" which themself have the length at basically 3,000 km (1,800 miles) http://www.publicpurpose.com/ut-cr-tok.pdf

They are _only_ counting the "urban area" as they say mention "urban area" several times in the study and _not_ metropolitan area, essentially excluding the vast suburbs and private smaller railways. Keep in mind that study is from 2003 as well. JR east by themself has 2,279.2 km in the greater Tokyo area as defined by the "Tokyo Suburban Area" 東京近郊区間 and that's only one operator.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

ukiyo said:


> His figures are accurate as they are directly from the operators with links to their direct sources in the references. The source on your page (which I also edited but never bothered editing that part, I just added "over") for the "over 2,000 km" is the "urban transport factbook" which themself have the length at basically 3,000 km (1,800 miles) http://www.publicpurpose.com/ut-cr-tok.pdf
> 
> They are _only_ counting the "urban area" (most likely as defined by Tokyo Metro) as they say mention "urban area" several times in the study, essentially excluding the vast suburbs and private smaller railways. JR east by themself has 2,279.2 km in the greater Tokyo area as defined by the "Tokyo Suburban Area" 東京近郊区間 and that's only one operator.


Okay that makes sense. Since we're comparing metropolitan area to metropolitan area, then Tokyo urban transit seems to be about more than twice the size of NYC's with far higher ridership. Rail transit across Japan seems to be the norm, while NYC is an oddity in the U.S.

One thing I feel like both NYC and Tokyo have in common is that their systems were developed by private companies. Correct me if I'm wrong, but many of Tokyo's rail lines are still operated by private companies. That is what allowed them to build such dense and expansive rail networks. 

Shanghai on the other hand is directed by the government. I'm sure there are pros and cons to both but it would be interesting to think about the possibility of allowing market competition for private companies to build the suburban lines.


----------



## Sunfuns

Isn't metropolitan Tokyo almost twice as populous as metropolitan New York (36 million vs 19)? If so then it makes perfect sense that the rail network is also much larger.


----------



## Svartmetall

^^ Since this is route length, metropolitan area is a more viable comparison otherwise a dense city is disadvantaged compared to a sprawled one. Ridership per capita. Km route length per km sq.


----------



## ukiyo

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> One thing I feel like both NYC and Tokyo have in common is that their systems were developed by private companies. Correct me if I'm wrong, but many of Tokyo's rail lines are still operated by private companies. That is what allowed them to build such dense and expansive rail networks.


I never knew NY rail was made by private systems I always thought it's public systems. As for Japan that is kind of true, but it's a lot more complicated than that, JR for example was only privatized in 1987.

As for Shanghai the CCP can basically build whatever it wants whenever it wants so I would imagine that is the most efficient way to build more rail :lol:


----------



## Svartmetall

Nearly all old rail systems were privately built! The UK had extensive private involvement in its railway construction and rival companies even used different gauges to each other. =P


----------



## Pansori

FabriFlorence said:


> I suppose that a so big metropolis should have also an all night bus service.


Is there no night bus service in Shanghai? That would be really strange.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

FabriFlorence said:


> I suppose that a so big metropolis should have also an all night bus service.


It definitely should. But would you go for a bus or for a taxi where a ride will cost you generally 2-5€ ?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

big-dog said:


> *Line 12 Qufu Rd Station will open on Saturday May 10th*
> 
> Passenger can transfer to Line 8 at this station.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --xinmin, metrofans


David what is the length of this extension and will they add any trains on line 12 due to the opening?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Ashis Mitra, steel-wheeled tram lines will be constructed in the cities far away form the downtown, which are equally within Shanghai. Songjiang, for instance.


----------



## big-dog

_Night City Dream_ said:


> David what is the length of this extension and will they add any trains on line 12 due to the opening?


About 1.3km. they won't add trains and they'll keep the current interval. I guess the current trains still have capacity.


(baidu map)


----------



## jaysonn341

Severiano said:


> You don't really need to add the Maglev. Its a total white elephant, I usually avoid taking it.


What are the alternatives? 
Line 2 will set you back a good 40 mins. Likewise with a taxi or bus. I can be "almost there" in 5 mins with the Maglev.


----------



## Severiano

_Night City Dream_ said:


> I love taking it. The fastest way to get to the city.


Except it doesn't go to the city. There are so many problems with the maglev Let me count the ways.....

1. Don't expect any expansion because they just built an apartment building across the street from the Longyang road terminus. Therefore blocking it in forever. If they were to expand it, they would have to demolish rows and rows of new homes. Tunneling is out of the question. 

2. They still use the 2010 subway map in the Maglev station, so obviously nobody gives a crap. 

3. Now that they have started building line 16, the taxi stand is gone, so all the taxi drivers try to screw people. Also they put up these stupid poles all around the station so ensure that your luggage will not fit through. Smart!

4. The station has two stops, why check the tickets twice? Why not just check them once like the HK airport express

5. Why the security, I just got off a plane! Also can we not be paranoid for once. 

6. 3 regular turnstiles and 1 for people with larger bags. Maybe they should all be for large bags, since this thing goes to the AIRPORT！ 

7. Ticket machines don't work, Only one person working the booth, can't use Transport card because I won't get the 10 yuan discount. 

8. Transferring from line 7 and 2 is a maze,up down up down stairs escalator stairs escalator. You also have to go outside, that means possibly getting rained on, same if you want a taxi.

Just admit it is a disaster, tear it down and build a normal train like HK or Beijing. That way they can tunnel it and it can stop at Century Ave, LJZ and Peoples square. From my house in Jing'an it is a 55 yuan taxi ride to the maglev station. It can take anywhere from 20-40 minutes depending on traffic. I would love it if there were a slower train that took us to People's square in 30-35 mins and I could just get a taxi from there. 

The sheer frustration of Maglev, taxi, and Pudong airport in general has made me come up with the 400 rule. I will only choose a Pudong flight if the ticket price is 400 less than the cheapest Hongqiao flight.


----------



## Silly_Walks

Severiano said:


> Except it doesn't go to the city. There are so many problems with the maglev Let me count the ways.....
> 
> 1. Don't expect any expansion because they just built an apartment building across the street from the Longyang road terminus. Therefore blocking it in forever. If they were to expand it, they would have to demolish rows and rows of new homes. Tunneling is out of the question.


They would probably just build a tunnel entrance and underground Longyang through station somewhere not blocked by new apartment buildings...

Tunneling is the ONLY option to connect it to places people want to go instead of around the city, and maglev is the best way of giving Hongqiao and Pudong the fast connection they deserve.


----------



## jaysonn341

Does everything have to use Maglev technology? What about a slower train in a tunnel that connects the two airports with a stop at Peoples square? If the whole journey takes 30 mins, that's still very good! 
At least there is a train in Shanghai! In Melbourne, there are no tracks leading to the airport. Your only options are a bus or a taxi. hno:


----------



## doc7austin

> Wrong. Line 2 is not that stuffed to squeeze in the train. And then you've got line 7, too.


Try Line 2 between 4.30pm and 7.30pm towards city centre, getting on at Longyang Road.
Lots of people working in the pudong high tech parks, who occupy the train.


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

How's longyang road station out of the way? 

isn't it just on the border of the inner city? 

The inner city downtown starts at longyang road since the inner ring road goes there right?


----------



## phoenixboi08

Severiano said:


> Except it doesn't go to the city. There are so many problems with the maglev Let me count the ways.....
> 
> 1. Don't expect any expansion because they just built an apartment building across the street from the Longyang road terminus. Therefore blocking it in forever. If they were to expand it, they would have to demolish rows and rows of new homes. Tunneling is out of the question.


The only utility they could get out of the Maglev is extending it to Disneyland/Line 11 and then continuing on to South Station (and some alignment on to Hongqiao). In any case, it's clear not using conventional rail was a mistake.

but hey, they get to tout it every now and then, so I guess it's a win...



VECTROTALENZIS said:


> How's longyang road station out of the way?
> 
> isn't it just on the border of the inner city?
> 
> The inner city downtown starts at longyang road since the inner ring road goes there right?


Not quite...don't forget how large Pudong is. Lujiazui is just one small district in Pudong. It's is still quite a distance to get to Lujiazui (I think almost 10km)...


Even though, it's not necessarily that long to go on to the City Center (People's Square) 










or Lujiazui - 










30 minutes or so - but it is annoying to have to switch from the Maglev to the subway, carrying bags, purchase your tickets, etc. (and Line 2 is the worst line to try to take with bags since it's always so crowded)

I am convinced the maglev can be "saved" if they utilize it for tourists visiting Disneyland and the soon to be hotels/resorts in that area.
I still think a connection to the South Station and Hongqiao is the most desirable, but given the abandonment of the plan to extend it to Suzhou, that seems unlikely.


----------



## Severiano

Longyang road is inconvenient if you live in Puxi, where a vast majority of Shanghai residents live. The subway transfer is awkward, especially for travelers who have big bags. Taxi drivers will try to screw you too. They either say its 50 yuan extra to cross the Huangpu or start at 150 no meter. As far as expansion, here is a pic I took 3 weeks ago. Notice that the Maglev has nowhere to go.


----------



## Pansori

Severiano does have a point there. Maglev is certainly big fun and a great attraction (also last time I used it it was far from being underused). But as a means of transport for getting to main central areas (People's Square or even Century Avenue) it's somewhat inadequate.

One thing that could have possibly made it more usable is more convenient transfer system with direct access to line 2 by using direct elevators or escalators. Also more integrated ticketing would help. But right now it's somewhat detached from metro and is functioning in its own right which makes it even less attractive as a means of getting from Airport to main areas in Shanghai.

Also I don't understand why on earth they didn't build it at least to Lujiazui (Century Avenue)? That would have been a whole different situation.


----------



## phoenixboi08

Pansori said:


> Also I don't understand why on earth they didn't build it at least to Lujiazui (Century Avenue)? That would have been a whole different situation.


Maybe it's connected to the decision to elevate the line rather than put it in a tunnel?


----------



## CNGL

phoenixboi08 said:


> The only utility they could get out of the Maglev is extending it to Disneyland/Line 11 and then continuing on to South Station (and some alignment on to Hongqiao). In any case, it's clear not using conventional rail was a mistake.
> 
> but hey, they get to tout it every now and then, so I guess it's a win...
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite...don't forget how large Pudong is. Lujiazui is just one small district in Pudong. It's is still quite a distance to get to Lujiazui (I think almost 10km)...
> 
> 
> Even though, it's not necessarily that long to go on to the City Center (People's Square)
> 
> or Lujiazui -
> 
> 30 minutes or so - but it is annoying to have to switch from the Maglev to the subway, carrying bags, purchase your tickets, etc. (and Line 2 is the worst line to try to take with bags since it's always so crowded)
> 
> I am convinced the maglev can be "saved" if they utilize it for tourists visiting Disneyland and the soon to be hotels/resorts in that area.
> I still think a connection to the South Station and Hongqiao is the most desirable, but given the abandonment of the plan to extend it to Suzhou, that seems unlikely.


It can't be that long. According to the same Google Maps, it takes 21 minutes to go from Renmin'guangchang to Longyanglu, and 16 minutes from Lujiazui.


----------



## Severiano

^^ Yea, that time is probably measured from when the doors on the line 2 subway train shut to when they open at LJZ and Peoples Square. It doesn't take into account exiting the station, going down the stairs, squeezing your suitcase between those stupid poles they put everywhere, down the escalator, down the stairs because the escalator doesn't go all the way down. Lining up to buy a ticket, going to another machine because you don't have coins because you just flew in from another city in China which doesn't use coins. Going to the opposite end of the station because that's where the security checkpoint is (security again! even though I just got off a plane and got checked again for the maglev) Blowing past the security checkpoint at breakneck speed. Having the security guy yell at you to check your bag and pretending you don't understand (sometimes being a foreigner is good, gotta take advantage) Swiping your card 4 times because the card readers don't work very well. Going down the stairs again, getting pushed onto the train. Ride train to destination, repeat. Hopefully you don't have to transfer.


----------



## foxmulder

Severiano said:


> Except it doesn't go to the city. There are so many problems with the maglev Let me count the ways.....
> 
> 1. Don't expect any expansion because they just built an apartment building across the street from the Longyang road terminus. Therefore blocking it in forever. If they were to expand it, they would have to demolish rows and rows of new homes. Tunneling is out of the question.
> 
> 2. They still use the 2010 subway map in the Maglev station, so obviously nobody gives a crap.
> 
> 3. Now that they have started building line 16, the taxi stand is gone, so all the taxi drivers try to screw people. Also they put up these stupid poles all around the station so ensure that your luggage will not fit through. Smart!
> 
> 4. The station has two stops, why check the tickets twice? Why not just check them once like the HK airport express
> 
> 5. Why the security, I just got off a plane! Also can we not be paranoid for once.
> 
> 6. 3 regular turnstiles and 1 for people with larger bags. Maybe they should all be for large bags, since this thing goes to the AIRPORT！
> 
> 7. Ticket machines don't work, Only one person working the booth, can't use Transport card because I won't get the 10 yuan discount.
> 
> 8. Transferring from line 7 and 2 is a maze,up down up down stairs escalator stairs escalator. You also have to go outside, that means possibly getting rained on, same if you want a taxi.
> 
> Just admit it is a disaster, tear it down and build a normal train like HK or Beijing. That way they can tunnel it and it can stop at Century Ave, LJZ and Peoples square. From my house in Jing'an it is a 55 yuan taxi ride to the maglev station. It can take anywhere from 20-40 minutes depending on traffic. I would love it if there were a slower train that took us to People's square in 30-35 mins and I could just get a taxi from there.
> 
> The sheer frustration of Maglev, taxi, and Pudong airport in general has made me come up with the 400 rule. I will only choose a Pudong flight if the ticket price is 400 less than the cheapest Hongqiao flight.


Frankly, reason for the maglev was partially to test the technology. China gave serious thought about maglev before going to more "traditional" high speed rail. 

Why does the tunneling is impossible? It isn't.

Also, I think maglev is a great solution to connect two airports.


----------



## Severiano

Tunneling is not impossible, but would be very hard and costly. Look at the picture! The maglev is boxed in on all sides. 

I know it was to test maglev technology, and it was a 1.5 billion dollar test. They could have built a Burj Khalifa for that money. Maybe they will connect the airports, but first Chen Liangyu has to break out of prison, rob an ICBC, and then maybe they will expand it.


----------



## Northridge

I was arriving Shanghai early morning on a Tuesday and used the Maglev, line 2 and line 4 to get to my destination. I had a big bag and that made some more hassle, but that it would do in any comparable world-city. I think it worked very well.
I agree that the end stop for the maglev could have been better(although, I don't think connecting it to PS is a good idea). But given its speed, it's very efficient and I don't think in any circumstances you can get to your destination quicker.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

I don't find so many problems that Severiano is trying to describe. What about the majority of airport trains in the world, are they more convenient? Definitely no.


----------



## phoenixboi08

_Night City Dream_ said:


> I don't find so many problems that Severiano is trying to describe. What about the majority of airport trains in the world, are they more convenient? Definitely no.


There are others that are far more convenient...

In any case, if you're going to Lujiazui or somewhere near People's Square, then it's fine, since it's just a short (in so many words) subway ride away.

Otherwise, it's more convenient to take a taxi or bus/shuttle (and most people I know do this). That Maglev is a fun thing to do on your first visit, and is just an afterthought thereafter - from my experience.


----------



## big-dog

from last time the Maglev extension was discussed it doesn't go directly to north (where it's blocked by buildings). The Maglev line will turn to west instead and go to Hongqiao from there. 

To make the turn the current Maglev station has to be abandoned and a new one (co-station with Line 18) will be built nearby. 

As for the taxi stand (currently occupied by Line 16), the plan is to build another one near Line 2 exist 2, which is another project that has not started yet.



Severiano said:


> Longyang road is inconvenient if you live in Puxi, where a vast majority of Shanghai residents live. The subway transfer is awkward, especially for travelers who have big bags. Taxi drivers will try to screw you too. They either say its 50 yuan extra to cross the Huangpu or start at 150 no meter. As far as expansion, here is a pic I took 3 weeks ago. Notice that the Maglev has nowhere to go.


----------



## jaysonn341

Pansori said:


> Also I don't understand why on earth they didn't build it at least to Lujiazui (Century Avenue)? That would have been a whole different situation.


EXACTLY! hno: I'm pretty sure that at the time, the current high rise developments were not there. Also that avenue down towards Lujiazui is so big you could easily put the tracks there. 
I still use the Maglev though because its a lot quicker than the taxi or line 2.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

phoenixboi08 said:


> There are others that are far more convenient...
> 
> In any case, if you're going to Lujiazui or somewhere near People's Square, then it's fine, since it's just a short (in so many words) subway ride away.
> 
> Otherwise, it's more convenient to take a taxi or bus/shuttle (and most people I know do this). That Maglev is a fun thing to do on your first visit, and is just an afterthought thereafter - from my experience.


Just consider the size of Shanghai. An ordinary trail will take more than an hour to go downtown. Maglev + metro is far less.

Don't tell me RER in Paris is more convenient or London tube.


----------



## hkskyline

Severiano said:


> Tunneling is not impossible, but would be very hard and costly. Look at the picture! The maglev is boxed in on all sides.
> 
> I know it was to test maglev technology, and it was a 1.5 billion dollar test. They could have built a Burj Khalifa for that money. Maybe they will connect the airports, but first Chen Liangyu has to break out of prison, rob an ICBC, and then maybe they will expand it.


This was a demonstration line, and I recall once hearing announcements at the station welcoming you to the maglev demonstration line. The Germans (Transrapid) convinced the Chinese to build this short line to showcase their maglev technology, hoping they'd bite for the much bigger Beijing-Shanghai link.

In the end, maglev was too costly for the distance, so this demonstration line remains an orphan today. It was never meant to be a realistic city connection to begin with. Had they didn't build this, it doesn't mean the money would have been used to build something else automatically.


----------



## Severiano

Still, over a billion dollars for a demonstration line is crazy! 

It think it was one of Chen Liangyu's overspending projects, same as the Lupu bridge. Now they are stuck with it and can't build a sensible connection to the city like HK and Beijing have.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

What's wrong with Lupu bridge?

Once again. Consider the distance between airports and downtowns in these cities and the time needed to run it.


----------



## phoenixboi08

hkskyline said:


> This was a demonstration line, and I recall once hearing announcements at the station welcoming you to the maglev demonstration line. The Germans (Transrapid) convinced the Chinese to build this short line to showcase their maglev technology, hoping they'd bite for the much bigger Beijing-Shanghai link.
> 
> In the end, maglev was too costly for the distance, so this demonstration line remains an orphan today. It was never meant to be a realistic city connection to begin with. Had they didn't build this, it doesn't mean the money would have been used to build something else automatically.


Wasn't the idea to continue this line on to Shanghai South Station, then Suzhou, until they realized conventional rail would only be slightly "slower?" Is that not the case? I've always wondered, since the old maps indicated this

I seem to be the only one, but don't you think a simple extension to the Disney resort could at least make the line profitable?


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

jaysonn341 said:


> EXACTLY! hno: I'm pretty sure that at the time, the current high rise developments were not there. Also that avenue down towards Lujiazui is so big you could easily put the tracks there.
> I still use the Maglev though because its a lot quicker than the taxi or line 2.


Actually, they were already there.

*2000










2004*


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

It's Chinese name is 上海磁浮示范运营线, Shànghǎi Cífú Shìfàn Yùnyíng Xiàn, which means Shanghai Maglev Demonstration Operation Line. So it's essentially just a demonstration line.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

It IS the most convenient way to get to the city. Taxi is way slower even with no jams in the way.


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

Metro or bus is also good.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

They are very very slow and it takes a lot if time to get to the downtown. For example, I used once in 2012 metro line 2. It took 38 minutes only to come to Guanglan Lu station from Pudong airport. To reach Peoples Square it takes more than an hour. Same with taxi.

When I live in Shanghai, I usually stay at Dapuqiao. It is 55 km drive from the airport. And this is the very center. I guess only Tokyo can be comparable to Shanghai in terms of distances. That's is why conventional express train are not the best solution.


----------



## Sunfuns

55 km is relatively far for an airport, but not far at all for a normal rail. One could easily imagine express train averaging just 100 km/h and getting to the city centre in 30 min. That's adequate, I'd say. People are not flying every day after all.


----------



## Silly_Walks

Just extending the maglev to the center might be cheaper than building an entirely new express rail route from Pudong to the People's Square.


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

_Night City Dream_ said:


> They are very very slow and it takes a lot if time to get to the downtown. For example, I used once in 2012 metro line 2. It took 38 minutes only to come to Guanglan Lu station from Pudong airport. To reach Peoples Square it takes more than an hour. Same with taxi.
> 
> When I live in Shanghai, I usually stay at Dapuqiao. It is 55 km drive from the airport. And this is the very center. I guess only Tokyo can be comparable to Shanghai in terms of distances. That's is why conventional express train are not the best solution.


But it's much cheaper, I can reserve two hours going from and to the airport.


----------



## hkskyline

phoenixboi08 said:


> Wasn't the idea to continue this line on to Shanghai South Station, then Suzhou, until they realized conventional rail would only be slightly "slower?" Is that not the case? I've always wondered, since the old maps indicated this
> 
> I seem to be the only one, but don't you think a simple extension to the Disney resort could at least make the line profitable?


That was one of many ideas that floated to make better use of the demonstration line. It was never originally conceived to connect with Suzhou or Hangzhou anyway.


----------



## saiho

Proposed Design of new Line 3/4 trains. I heard that the existing Line 3 trains will be rebuilt in the future. 35 new sets ordered first one delivering in July.










Source


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Why so many?

Line 3 will be split, so, it's length will be dwarved.


----------



## saiho

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Why so many?
> 
> Line 3 will be split, so, it's length will be dwarved.


Its for Lines 3/4. The splitting will allow for closer headways. Therefore more trains are needed.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Historically, the rolling stock on both was different: Siemens on line 4 and Alstom Metropoils on line 3.

35 EMUs seems to me a huge figure comparable to what runs now on each of the lines, no?


----------



## saiho

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Historically, the rolling stock on both was different: Siemens on line 4 and Alstom Metropoils on line 3.


Yes but that doesn't mean they can't be the same.



_Night City Dream_ said:


> 35 EMUs seems to me a huge figure comparable to what runs now on each of the lines, no?


Both Lines currently run at 12 trains per hour. With Line splitting they can run up to 24 trains per hour. You are going to need alot more trains to sustain that level of service.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

I agree, they they'll need a lot but still.

Imagine they've split the lines.

Line 3 gets 10 (or how many?) km shorter. So it will need fewer trains to maintain the same headways. If headways have to be reduced by half, then yes, should be a little more.

Line 4 will definitely need more trains.

How many trains are there now on each of the lines?


----------



## saiho

_Night City Dream_ said:


> I agree, they they'll need a lot but still.
> 
> Imagine they've split the lines.
> 
> Line 3 gets 10 (or how many?) km shorter. So it will need fewer trains to maintain the same headways. If headways have to be reduced by half, then yes, should be a little more.
> 
> Line 4 will definitely need more trains.
> 
> How many trains are there now on each of the lines?


Like 30 sets each line


----------



## Northridge

Is the splitting of line 3 a permanent solution? I thought they were going to build it underground.


----------



## doc7austin

Detailed Report on Shanghai Metro Line 6:


----------



## _Night City Dream_

I took Maglev several days ago and noticed that the construction of line 16 extension is underway! For some 800 meters line will run along with the Maglev line, which is cool. And I guess transfer from line 16 Longyang Road station to lines 2 and 7 will take a lot of time.


----------



## big-dog

The construction is going well. I can see it when I drive to office. The worst transfer would be that from Line 16 to Line 7. Passengers have to walk crossing Maglev and Line 2 in the middle.


----------



## big-dog

July 22
*Line 7 Qihua Rd Station will open on July 22*

Qihua Rd Station was the only unopened station of Line 7 phase II.










by metrofans


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Where's that?


----------



## big-dog

Right here


(picture credit to Zidar_fr)


----------



## wwc234

Metro Shanghai Mendapatkan Kereta Dengan Desain Love Live | Baca Selengkapnya 
https://www.facebook.com/JapaneseSt...2872177451103/700016196736697/?type=1&theater


----------



## _Night City Dream_

By the way, I've seen this time many new trolleybuses in Shanghai. All were low-floor, very modern and fresh. Pics to come.

And one more things I've noticed during my summer stay in Shanghai his year. Many buses now have LED destination signs instead of old drop-indicators. The old ones were better for taking pictures of  LED signs look more modern but not so unique or original.


----------



## Pansori

_Night City Dream_ said:


> By the way, I've seen this time many new trolleybuses in Shanghai. All were low-floor, very modern and fresh. Pics to come.
> 
> And one more things I've noticed during my summer stay in Shanghai his year. Many buses now have LED destination signs instead of old drop-indicators. The old ones were better for taking pictures of  LED signs look more modern but not so unique or original.


I thought trolleybuses are being phased out of service in Chinese cities? Why would they buy new ones?


----------



## saiho

Pansori said:


> I thought trolleybuses are being phased out of service in Chinese cities?


Up to maybe around the late 90's. After that they probably realized that tearing down infrastructure is is dumb. Also supercapcitor buses and trams IMHO is a waste of money. When Nanjing, Guangzhou and Shenyang realize that these systems are an absolute pain to maintain and run, the fad will be over and wired connections will roll back in.


----------



## Pansori

saiho said:


> Up to maybe around the late 90's. After that they probably realized that tearing down infrastructure is is dumb. Also supercapcitor buses and trams IMHO is a waste of money. When Nanjing, Guangzhou and Shenyang realize that these systems are an absolute pain to maintain and run, the fad will be over and wired connections will roll back in.


According to Wikipedia



> In 2004, the system was reported to comprise more than 20 routes, using a fleet of almost 900 vehicles,[3] but subsequently both numbers have significantly declined. The active fleet – the number of vehicles still in regular use – totalled a little more than 200 at the end of 2009.[10]


Reference: Trolleybus Magazine No. 290 (March–April 1990), p. 40.


----------



## androidhay

Line 2 has the highest congregation of white collar workers since this line travels through Lujiazui financial disctrict and terminates at Zhangjiang High Tech Park. Girls of extraordinary beauty are also more easily to be seen than any other subways


----------



## _Night City Dream_

saiho said:


> Up to maybe around the late 90's. After that they probably realized that tearing down infrastructure is is dumb. Also *supercapcitor buses and trams IMHO is a waste of money.* When Nanjing, Guangzhou and Shenyang realize that these systems are an absolute pain to maintain and run, the fad will be over and wired connections will roll back in.


Why do you think so?


----------



## Blackraven

wwc234 said:


> Metro Shanghai Mendapatkan Kereta Dengan Desain Love Live | Baca Selengkapnya
> https://www.facebook.com/JapaneseSt...2872177451103/700016196736697/?type=1&theater


Yeah I saw the news regarding that 



















Here's a sample layout as well:










It is apparently for the launch of the game called "Love Live School Idol Festival" in Mainland China. The game is based on a Japanese anime called "Love Live School Idol Project" and has been a hit not just in Japan but also around the world as well......spawning into merchandise, games and whatnot.

I play the game myself........just to pass the time and imho, it's one of the more enjoyable music/rhythm simulation games that I have on my phone right now =)

With that said, there are indeed some die-hard extreme fans and supporters of Love Live as well.


























You don't see that every day. Nevertheless, it is unique (in a way) and people's reactions may vary. For me though, I would be content with say just taking pictures of the train (because you don't see anime train wraps that often).........but I personally wouldn't go that far to bow down and worship the anime goddesses (even if these are the muse/u's idol group) but that's just me.

Oh well, different strokes for different folks =)


----------



## mopc

quite sad actually


----------



## hkskyline

* Rapid transport for Disney resort*
August 18, 2014
Shanghai Daily

TWO rapid transport systems are set to carry visitors around Shanghai Disney Resort, according to latest plans.

These will be built in the Shanghai International Tourism and Resorts Zone where the Chinese mainland’s first Disney resort is currently under construction, the Shanghai Planning and Land Resources Bureau said.

Visitors will enter the resort, which is due to open next year, by taking an extension of Metro Line 11 or shuttle buses running from a Metro Line 2 link.

According to the latest layout of the zone, these will arrive at a transit station from where passengers can choose from two rapid transit systems within the tourism area.

One is set to loop around the lake located near the theme park, which will be surrounded by hotels and recreational facilities.

The other transit system will bring visitors to a public transport hub within the zone, the plan shows.

Traffic hubs will be situated near entrances to the 3.9 square kilometer theme park to better disperse the crowds, reported news portal eastday.com.

The Shanghai International Tourism and Resorts Zone is designed to help the city become a world-famous tourist destination, with Shanghai Disney Resort at its heart, say officials.


----------



## FM 2258

^^

So I guess no Maglev extension to Disney resort. I'd love to see a Disney themed train to the resort as they've done on Hong Kong. The only Disney park I've been to in my life is in Hong Kong.


----------



## ode of bund

Pansori said:


> Originally Posted by saiho View Post
> Up to maybe around the late 90's. After that they probably realized that tearing down infrastructure is is dumb. Also supercapcitor buses and trams IMHO is a waste of money. When Nanjing, Guangzhou and Shenyang realize that these systems are an absolute pain to maintain and run, the fad will be over and wired connections will roll back in.
> According to Wikipedia
> 
> Quote:
> In 2004, the system was reported to comprise more than 20 routes, using a fleet of almost 900 vehicles,[3] but subsequently both numbers have significantly declined. The active fleet – the number of vehicles still in regular use – totalled a little more than 200 at the end of 2009.[10]
> Reference: Trolleybus Magazine No. 290 (March–April 1990), p. 40.


That is bull shit, In 2004 Shanghai's trolley-bus system was already in a severe decline with only 16 routes and merely 400 or so operable vehicles. The heydays of Shanghai's trolley-bus system was from April 30th, 1990 to February 10th, 1992, with 22 routes and 961 trolley-buses, ALL ARTICULATED!. The routes were 6, 8, 9, 11~28, and Tunnel Bus Line 5 (隧道五线). 

You know what was Tunnel Bus Line 5? It was the first trolley-bus route to travel through a cross harbor, under water tunnel. Seattle's downtown bus tunnel and Boston's Silver Line bus tunnel have also supported trolley-buses, but these two tunnels are dedicated bus tunnels where general traffic is not allowed in there, and the vehicles operated in there were specially built dual mode trolley-buses which only operated in trolley mode when in the tunnel, as soon as they leave the tunnel, they switch to diesel mode.

Not in the case of Shanghai's Tunnel Bus Line 5 (隧道五线), it was a full conventional trolley-bus route that traveled through a 2261m cross harbor tunnel (East Yan-an Road Tunnel, 延安东路隧道), the tunnel was not a dedicated bus tunnel, it was opened to general traffic.

Tunnel Bus Line 5 was inaugurated on April 30th 1990. I remember this day very vividly since I rode it on the first day. For the first in Shanghai's history, trolley-bus was brought to Pudong. At one time Shanghai had very ambitious plan to build a huge trolley-bus network in Pudong, they even built a trolley garage, but never for one day had it housed a trolley-bus. On August 31, 1996, Tunnel Bus Line 5 had to be converted to motor bus operation because of the construction of Shanghai's East-west cross-town via-duct which was also known as Yan-an Road via-duct, as well as the twinning of a second tube for East Yan-an Road Tunnel. 

In the 1990's we lost not just Tunnel Bus Line 5, but also four other trolley routes, including route 27 in 1992, route 9 in 1993, route 12 in 1994, and route 16 in 1997. In the story of route 27, when the Shanghai municipal government decided to uglify the Bund (外滩), Shanghai's famous water-front, they saw trolley wires as an eye sore. On the night of February 10th and wee hours of February 11th, Shanghai transit deployed more than 30 line trucks to tear down 5 km of two way trolley overhead in a single night from the Garden Bridge(白渡桥) and the Bund, the next morning, route 27 trolley became route 37 gasoline bus. The affected trolley routes were not just 27, but also 22 which also traveled on the Garden Bridge and the Bund and whose terminus was at Shi-liu-pu (16th Pier, 十六铺), Shanghai's then main passenger ship dock. Route 22 had to be truncated on the north side of the Garden Bridge. 

It was around 1997 when single compartment rigid trolleys were reintroduced by the now defunct Shanghai Coach Plant (上海客车厂). The switch from articulated trolley to rigid trolley itself was an indication of the decline in ridership, and of course the on slaughter didn't just stop at the end of 1990's, in 2003 we lost 77 years old route 18, and in 2005, route 21. While the loss of routes 9, 12, 16, 18, 21, 27, and Tunnel Bus Line 5 were all road construction/uglification initiated, or government initiated, after 2005, all the losses were enterprise initiated, which were in the cases of routes 11, 17, and 26. Routes 11 and 26 were switched to super capacitor "wi-fi" trolley, and route 17 was switched to diesel operation simply because the company didn't want to operate trolley any more. Other routes that also temporarily lost all trolley operation were 13, 15, 22, 23 simply because Shanghai was so desperately anemic of operable trolleys from 2010 to 2013 (down to 91 operable trolleys in 2013). At one time we thought these routes were never able to recover, luckily with the new Young-MAN trolleys, these four routes have all recovered now. Today, the number of trolley routes in Shanghai sits at 12, and there is talk to convert route 37 back to trolley again because of the government incentives for purchasing and using "rechargeable electric bus", a fancy term for the new trolley-bus. Route 37 will have to cross the Garden Bridge and the Bund on "wi-fi" mode, they are doing feasibility study now.


----------



## ode of bund

_Night City Dream_ said:


> By the way, I've seen this time many new trolleybuses in Shanghai. All were low-floor, very modern and fresh. Pics to come.
> 
> And one more things I've noticed during my summer stay in Shanghai his year. Many buses now have LED destination signs instead of old drop-indicators. The old ones were better for taking pictures of  LED signs look more modern but not so unique or original.


Yes, the new Neoplan Young-MAN "rechargeable electric bus" is the brightest shining star on Shanghai's bus forum right now. 

http://sh.52bus.com/forum.php?mod=forumdisplay&fid=2

look for postings by Wing or Ultraseven.


----------



## CNGL

_Night City Dream_ said:


> I distinguish them clearly. While Hanzhong Lu Hangzhong Lu sound much more similar to me.


At least they are on different lines. How about Changshu Lu and Changshou Lu? They are on the same line with only two stations between them.


----------



## ddes

Mandarin is a very tonal language, so as a speaker myself, Changshu (familiar) Lu and Changshou (longevity) Lu...there's no mistaking it.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

CNGL said:


> At least they are on different lines. How about Changshu Lu and Changshou Lu? They are on the same line with only two stations between them.


Even for me they are that different. While N and NG are often mixed up by native speakers themselves. If someone tells me to come to Han(g)zhong Lu, I'll get it quite hard.


----------



## hkskyline

Source: Shanghai Daily 

Construction of the Metro Line 11 extension (shown on map above) to Shanghai Disneyland has been completed and testing is expected to start early next year, subway operator Shanghai Shentong Metro Group said yesterday. The final sections of the 12.3 kilometer route were put into place over the weekend, though development work is still ongoing at the three “Disney” stations, the company said. The new line starts at Luoshan Road and includes two stops — Kangqiao Road E. and Hengxin Road — on its way to the theme park. Both the extension and the tourist attraction are set to open next year. — Shen Xinyi


----------



## big-dog

^^ Current station status



big-dog said:


> *Line 11 Disneyland extension*
> 
> Disneyland extension:
> 3 stations (2 elevated, 1 underground), opens in 2015
> 
> construction pics (underground Disneyland Station)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elevated Hengxin Rd Station
> 
> 
> (shmetro)


----------



## big-dog

duplicate


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Pity that the station is not particular at all. Disneyland resort station in Hong Kong is one of the best in the world.


----------



## saiho

Shanghai's new Line 3/4 trains. 










Source


----------



## kix111

saiho said:


> Shanghai's new Line 3/4 trains. Source


Purple and yellow? How do we know which one is which now?


----------



## _Night City Dream_




----------



## big-dog

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Pity that the station is not particular at all. Disneyland resort station in Hong Kong is one of the best in the world.


There was a Disneyland station design poll 2 years ago. Would be interested to see how it comes up when finished.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

May I see any renders here?


----------



## big-dog

^^
I remember No. #2 won out.



big-dog said:


> Disneyland Station plan #1 ~ 6, which one will you choose?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --shmetro


----------



## Severiano

ddes said:


> Mandarin is a very tonal language, so as a speaker myself, Changshu (familiar) Lu and Changshou (longevity) Lu...there's no mistaking it.


Before I knew there was a city called Changshu. I pronounced 常熟 Chang2Shou2. and 长寿Chang2Shou4.


----------



## ZNaseer

Pudong Terminal 1


----------



## hkskyline

* Subway services extended on eve of National Day holiday*
Shanghai Daily
September 22, 2014 

Metro lines 1 and 2 will stay open late on September 30, the day before the National Day holiday, to deal with a bigger number of anticipated travelers.

According to Shanghai Shentong Group, the city’s Metro operator, both lines 1 and 2 will stay open an additional 80 minutes on September 30. Eight extra trains will be in service on the lines with an interval of 20 minutes.

The last train from Line 1’s Xinzhuang Station will depart at 11:52pm instead of 10:32pm, while the last train in the opposite direction will leave Fujin Road Station at 11:50pm instead of 10:30pm.

Line 2 will see train operation extended along its section between Xujingdong and Guanglan Road stations. The last trains will leave both Guanglan Road and Xujingdong stations at 12:05am instead of the usual 10:45pm.

Meanwhile, 104 bus routes with stops within 100 meters of the affected Metro stations will also extend hours on September 30. The timetable for the last bus along some routes has been extended to as late as 1:20am. A detailed timetable can be found on www.shygc.net.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Hehe in Moscow down here we have all the lines workin until 1 A.M. With headways not exceeding 5 minutes.


----------



## hkskyline

Yes, mainland Chinese metros shut down fairly early in general. Not sure why?


----------



## saiho

hkskyline said:


> Yes, mainland Chinese metros shut down fairly early in general. Not sure why?


To be honest I think the early shut down used as a soft curfew to encourage everyone to get home and stay there.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

I don't think so at all. The whole infrastructure usually closes at 22 - 23, hard to find a restaurant after 22 o'clock. Even in Shanghai. And keeping such a huge system running for some occassional passengers is costly. Taxis are a solution being so cheap.

Chinese citizens tend to go to bed quite early which I welcome. Talking or doing smth far into the night is actually harmful for health.


----------



## jaysonn341

cal_t said:


> Given the way mainland pax board their trains, I'm all for this added step.


I'm going to comment on this one. I found no problems with the way people boarded in the Mainland. People line up and board after letting passengers off first. Never witnessed anyone trying to pry doors open or making a fuss missing a train... I've seen this many times on the Frankston line here in Melbourne. Bogans showing no respect for train property, forcing and holding doors open etc. hno:


----------



## ddes

I suppose it comes down to protocol then, but I also wonder if it functions as a means of ensuring a regular headway...


----------



## Pansori

jaysonn341 said:


> I'm going to comment on this one. I found no problems with the way people boarded in the Mainland. People line up and board after letting passengers off first. Never witnessed anyone trying to pry doors open or making a fuss missing a train... I've seen this many times on the Frankston line here in Melbourne. Bogans showing no respect for train property, forcing and holding doors open etc. hno:


Agree. Never seen that in China. Seen many times in London though. I mean holding doors or 'jumping' into the train at the last moment. Actually I do that sometimes too.

The only annoyance I observed is that people are often rushing to board the train before other passengers managed to get out. As if that would make them get to their destination quicker. It doesn't cause major problems apart from some little pushes and bumps but still a little silly because they won't actually get anywhere quicker as opposed to boarding the train in a slower and more respectable manner what you would typically observe in, say, Hong Kong. That's by no mans a real safety issue though. Just my observation about some manners of boarding the train.


----------



## jaysonn341

ddes said:


> I suppose it comes down to protocol then, but I also wonder if it functions as a means of ensuring a regular headway...


Didn't think about this one. Could be an valid explanation... but then again, what how much headway is 10 seconds going to make with trains every 5 minutes?


----------



## Pansori

jaysonn341 said:


> Didn't think about this one. Could be an valid explanation... but then again, what how much headway is 10 seconds going to make with trains every 5 minutes?


Can't be the reason. Just wouldn't make sense. It can't be that from Guangzhou to Shanghai and everything inbetween metro trains would wait 10-12 seconds just to achieve regular headway. It's not done elsewhere and almost certainly not done in China.


----------



## CNGL

Per the latest reports Daduhe Lu station on line 13 opened on 1 November. Due to the way the tracks are laid there (With one central track that connect both directions, which explains why Daduhe Lu wasn't opened before), it appears now the trains continue beyond Jinshajiang Lu to Changshou Lu in ghost running.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Pansori said:


> I noticed that too in Shanghai (although it's better on some lines it seems) and that made me wonder what the precise reasons were? It took 5 minutes for the next train to come (or so it was showing on the information display at the station) while the whole place (Dashijie station) was hopelessly overcrowded during the evening rush hour. You couldn't get onto the train and once on the train some passengers couldn't get out because carriages were completely packed without a chance to move for those who were not right next to the doors.
> 
> 
> I brought this up quite a while back after visiting Shenzhen for the first time. I later noticed that it's the same thing in all metro systems in China. Wasted dwelling time (time between doors closing and physical movement of the train) in stations is very long. I know it's a funny thing to do but I actually like counting time after the doors close until train starts to physically move. In Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou and Shenzhen it typically takes between 10 and 15 seconds with some extremes up to around 20 seconds (rare).
> 
> In other metro systems in Asia that I've tried (like Hong Kong, Singapore and Bangkok) it takes around 2-4 seconds which is probably a reasonable benchmark of how long it should be. In London it might be as little as 1 second in some instances but rarely more than 2 seconds. So 10-15 seconds really seems too long once you put it into perspective.
> 
> It must have to do with the train driver getting out of the driver's cabin at every station and observing the platform. He only gets in _after_ all the doors are closed and safety indicators are green, then closes his own cabin door and takes actions to make the train move. The whole thing probably takes around 6-8 seconds hence total dwelling time of up to around 15 seconds. If you minus that out you would get 3-5 seconds, pretty much like elsewhere.
> 
> The reason for such a complicated procedure is safety (or so it was mentioned in some earlier discussions about the issue) but I still wonder why is it necessary? And why it's not necessary elsewhere? It's not like Chinese passengers are crazy and would not know how to behave in a metro (even if that might have been the case some time ago). Even if they were less patient from, say, your typical passenger in Singapore or Hong Kong there are more than enough safety measures in place: screen doors, sensors looking for passengers trapped between doors, security cameras observing the platform, platform train dispatch staff etc. Yet the driver still has to get out of his cabin at every stop so wasting time and increasing dwelling times. Why?


That's what I've been telling for at least 2 years. 15 (up to 20 seconds actually, I saw it myself) at each station makes minutes for the whole lines.

But you forgot to mention several seconds even BEFORE opening, and it is sometimes up to 5 - 7 seconds while down here in Moscow it's 0, the train often opens its doors not having completely stopped. 

So at each station the time loss may reach crazy 20 - 30 seconds. That's awful.

~~~
But I have to say in HK drivers also get off to control the situation and then upon closing the doors they get back on the train.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Pansori said:


> It must have to do with safety. Otherwise there is no other explanation. Why would the driver get out of the train and only get back in once all the doors are closed? It's an overkill and perhaps completely unnecessary but that must be a formal safety procedure they follow which is probably in their operations manual.


I've also noticed that after the doors closed, the driver points with his hand in three different directions: straight forward, left and right. Only after that he gets back to the cab.


----------



## Leeds No.1

Well you can't blame them for holding the doors open when they're gonna have to wait five minutes to the next one if they don't. 

In the time a train dwells at a station in Shanghai, two services would have been and gone in London.


----------



## Woonsocket54

CNGL said:


> Per the latest reports Daduhe Lu station on line 13 opened on 1 November. Due to the way the tracks are laid there (With one central track that connect both directions, which explains why Daduhe Lu wasn't opened before), it appears now the trains continue beyond Jinshajiang Lu to Changshou Lu in ghost running.


This is kind of a weird arrangement. The diagrams do not appear to show the middle track.









http://shanghai.xinmin.cn/msrx/2014/10/29/25784472.html

So what happens is that eastbound trains stop at Daduhe Lu on the eastbound track, then stop at Jinshajiang Lu on the eastbound track, then go further east through unopened Longde Lu and Wuning Lu and turn around at unopened Changshou Lu and arrive at Jinshajiang Lu on the westbound track - whereas before Daduhe Lu opened all trains arrived and departured from Jinshajiang Lu using the westbound track?









http://sinacn.weibodangan.com/user/1778716267/


----------



## _Night City Dream_

I can't see the pictures except that of the station.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Well guys, the year is ending soon. What openings are expected for Shanghai metro? Will they really occur?


----------



## Severiano

The Line 13 extension should be opening soon. I haven't been in Shanghai for the past 3 weeks, but before I left I saw them installing the entry and exit passageways for line 13 near Changshou road.


----------



## big-dog

So is the last part of Line 16. I see testing trains running in and out of the new Longyang Lu Station every day.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

These two extentions only?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Severiano said:


> The Line 13 extension should be opening soon. I haven't been in Shanghai for the past 3 weeks, but before I left I saw them installing the entry and exit passageways for line 13 near Changshou road.


How many stations and kms of tracks are supposed to open in 2014 on line 13?


----------



## big-dog

_Night City Dream_ said:


> How many stations and kms of tracks are supposed to open in 2014 on line 13?


3 stations, around 4 kms:

Longde Rd Station (interchange Line 11)
Wuning Rd Station (interchange U/C Line 14)
Chaoshou Rd Station (interchange Line 7)


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Thanks. And what about line 16? How many stations and kms there?

Any other extensions for 2014?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Some line 6 pictures by me.


----------



## big-dog

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Thanks. And what about line 16? How many stations and kms there?
> 
> Any other extensions for 2014?


Line 16 extension includes 2 stations, 7km.

Huaxia Lu (Middle) Station, new station, interchange with U/C Line 13
Longyang Lu station, interchange with Line 2/7/Maglev


----------



## doc7austin

Some impressions from Shanghai Metro Line 12:


----------



## doc7austin

Here is a comprehensive video from Shanghai Metro Line 12:






You can observe the massive dwell time between closing the doors and starting to move the train.


----------



## Pansori

^^
Great video there. Long dwelling times have been discussed numerous times. It seems to be an issue in all cities in China.


----------



## hkskyline




----------



## dimlys1994

Line 13 (Jinshajianglu - Changshoulu) and 16 (Luoshanlu - Longyanglu) extensions were opened today. Map from urbanrail.net:


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Cool. Tomorrow I plan to be leaving for SHANGHAI. Hope to see it personally.


----------



## Woonsocket54

*Line 13 extension*

*Line 13 - Changshou Road station* - open 2014.12.28









Source: http://www.duob.cn/piccont/182306.html









Source: http://www.smeiren.com/wad/19430/ha...qin-ce-huan-cheng-shi-jian-quan-cheng-hao-shi

*Line 13 - Wuning Road Station* - open 2014.12.28









Source: http://zs.crec4.com/Engineering/2/?2014-12-3-770.html









Source: http://www.smeiren.com/wad/19430/ha...qin-ce-huan-cheng-shi-jian-quan-cheng-hao-shi

*Line 13 - Longde Road Station* - open 2014.12.28









Source: http://zs.crec4.com/Engineering/2/?2014-12-3-770.html









Source: http://www.smeiren.com/wad/19430/ha...qin-ce-huan-cheng-shi-jian-quan-cheng-hao-shi


----------



## Woonsocket54

*Longyang Road Station* - open 2014.12.28































































Source: http://www.vkadoo.cn/459F0036C2B78D7480DAA9B58EF71C05.wxhtml

*Middle Huaxia Road Station*









Source: http://sh.sina.com.cn/news/m/2014-12-25/detail-iavxeafr9384303.shtml









Source: http://www.vkadoo.cn/459F0036C2B78D7480DAA9B58EF71C05.wxhtml


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Sorry guys, Id been having fever over the last 2 days and I just wasn't able to go and take pictures. And now I'm back to moscow.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

How many trains have been added to lines 13 and 16 respectively? Do they plan to increase the number of cars in line 16 trains?


----------



## saiho

_Night City Dream_ said:


> How many trains have been added to lines 13 and 16 respectively? Do they plan to increase the number of cars in line 16 trains?


Shanghai Metro removed a bunch seats on Line 16 trains to boost capacity. In the face of large demand, pledged that it is working on getting the express service online and starting to convert from 3 car trains to 6 car trains.










Sauce


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS




----------



## _Night City Dream_

That's impressive. How many Kms, stations and lines will there be in Shanghai in 2030?


----------



## kunming tiger

Easier still how many new lines or extensions to existinh lines will open in 2015?


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/asia/shanghai-city-centre-tram-plan-revealed.html?channel=540
> 
> *Shanghai city centre tram plan revealed*
> Thursday, March 05, 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _TRAMS are set to return to Shanghai city centre for the first time in more than 40 years as part of a three-year development plan for publically-owned land along the city's riverfront, which was unveiled by the municipal government on February 25_
> 
> Construction is expected to begin in 2017 on the 13km line, which will run south along the west bank of the Huangpu River from an interchange with metro Line 4 at Nanpu Bridge to Xupu Bridge in Xuhai
> 
> ...


----------



## Shanghai Noon

The map that VECTROTALENZIS posted shows the metro systems of Shanghai, Kunshan and Suzhou and includes the China Rail Highspeed network. 

The Shanghai Metro usually opens new stations on December 28th of any given year. 2014 was a bit of a disappointment. We only got six new stations throughout the whole year with no new lines. However, the importance of the extension of Line 16 to Longyang Rd cannot be understated. I was actually a little surprised that they finished that section last. The direct transfer to Line 2 is critical to the feasibility of Line 16. When it only had the transfer to Luoshan Rd, Line 16 was only efficient to reach the western half of Shanghai. Line 6 is very slow and cramped, and Oriental Sports Center is a nightmare for transferring.


----------



## CNGL

Now that I see that 2030 map, I find a couple lines I had never seen before: A line 23 running west of line 17 20 and a different line 24 from the official plans (which also appears there) running near Lujiazui, as well as several extensions like that of line 9 to Jinshan Bei (i.e. North) Station or line 14 to Shanghai Qichecheng. Personally I think they should haven't built the Anting branch of line 11 and made line 14 to run all the way to Huaqiao instead.


----------



## lkstrknb

This is a short video showing the switches in operation on the Shanghai Maglev. The video was taken in 2006 with an old camera. The switches are no longer used today in daily operation as they just run two trains back and forth. It is too bad.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Shanghai Noon said:


> The Shanghai Metro usually opens new stations on December 28th of any given year. 2014 was a bit of a disappointment. We only got six new stations throughout the whole year with no new lines.


Most of the cities in the world can only dream about 6 stations in a year.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

lkstrknb said:


> This is a short video showing the switches in operation on the Shanghai Maglev. The video was taken in 2006 with an old camera. The switches are no longer used today in daily operation as they just run two trains back and forth. It is too bad.


What is bad? Maglev trains are never crowded at least I've never seen that. For what reason should they run more than 2 trains on the line?


----------



## Abhishek901

I think he meant that ridership is too low considering the investment gone into this line.


----------



## lkstrknb

Yes, the ridership is lower than most would like. The trains typically get about 80-150 passengers from what I have seen (I have ridden the train about 30 times over the past 9 years. When I ride, I generally walk to the far end of the train where the trains are more empty.

The ticket price is too expensive for many local people and airport workers and now the Subway Line 2 makes a direct run from People's Square and the other airport and train station. That ride takes about 1 hour or more, but it is a cheaper ticket price.

The Shanghai Maglev was built as a demonstration line and its been working great for all these years.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Locals don't use it right because they don't need to. As for foreigners many just don't know it exists or don't know where it goes. They prefer taxis that are way slower.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...nghai-places-first-chinese-citadis-order.html
> 
> *Shanghai places first Chinese Citadis tram order*
> 09 Apr 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CHINA: Shanghai Songjiang Tramway Investment & Operation Co has awarded the Shanghai Alstom Transport joint venture of Shanghai Rail Traffic Equipment Development Co (60%) and Alstom (40%) a €72m contract to supply 30 Citadis trams for use in the Songjiang suburb of Shanghai.
> 
> Announcing the order on April 9, Alstom said it was the first order for Citadis trams in China. SATCO is to manufacture the vehicles, with Alstom’s La Rochelle plant in France providing the control and monitoring software and Villeurbanne the hardware, Le Creusot the bogies and Tarbes technical support for the power modules. Alstom’s Sesto site in Italy will provide technical support for the traction inverters
> 
> ...


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Are they importing technology or this is just assemnblage?

Dymlis1994, please, do not quote the news, place them as a normal text. I sometimes want to copy it to our Russian section but I can't do it quickly.


----------



## Woonsocket54

As a compromise, I suggest quoting the news in the international forums and doing what you want in the Russian forum. Thanks.


----------



## reinhart87

As a foreigner living in Shanghai, I am a big fan of using the Maglev. Whenever I need to go to Pudong airport alone or with another person, then Maglev is always the first choice. Only when I go with a two or three other people then taking a taxi or hiring a private car makes more sense. Taking Maglev is fast, I always get a seat, and just so easy

From where I live, I only need max 35 mins door to door to Pudong airport if I use Maglev. I get a taxi from my apartment and go to Longyang Lu station and from Longyang Lu station to Pudong with Maglev. If I used taxi from my apartment to Pudong, it will take at least 1 hour and the cost ranges around 170-180 RMB. 

It is a pity that Shanghai Maglev stops at Longyang Lu station as it is no where near Lujiazui CBD and Puxi. Plus, the management needs to do some serious cleaning, cabin refurbishment, and just better maintenance as signs of wear and tear are so obvious


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Woonsocket54 said:


> As a compromise, I suggest quoting the news in the international forums and doing what you want in the Russian forum. Thanks.


You'd probably misunderstood me. I didn't mean I don't want him to post the news.

Every times Dymlis1994 posts the news, he puts it between QUOTE tags. As a result, I can't re-quote it to easily copy to the Russian thread.


----------



## philip

VECTROTALENZIS said:


>


It looks like the Maglev Line will never be extended in the foreseeable future. Oh well.....


----------



## Silly_Walks

philip said:


> It looks like the Maglev Line will never be extended in the foreseeable future. Oh well.....


Which is a shame, because every extension you can make on that line will increase its usefulness tenfold, and enhance the network as a whole. 

To Lujiazui: lots and lots of business travelers will use it more.
To People's Square: all other travelers plus business travelers will use it more.
To Hongqiao: all people coming from Hongqiao (airport or HSR) can now also use it. Would make Hongqiao-Pudong transfers a lot more feasible.

So you don't have to extend the line to Hongqiao right away (expensive): you can extend it in small phases, step by step, each one being useful.


----------



## phoenixboi08

Silly_Walks said:


> Which is a shame, because every extension you can make on that line will increase its usefulness tenfold, and enhance the network as a whole.
> 
> To Lujiazui: lots and lots of business travelers will use it more.
> To People's Square: all other travelers plus business travelers will use it more.
> To Hongqiao: all people coming from Hongqiao (airport or HSR) can now also use it. Would make Hongqiao-Pudong transfers a lot more feasible.
> 
> So you don't have to extend the line to Hongqiao right away (expensive): you can extend it in small phases, step by step, each one being useful.


At the very least, a short extension to the Disney Site would make it exponentially more useful, and offer a quicker connection into the city via Line 11


----------



## Svartmetall

I've finally got round to putting my videos of Shanghai up on my channel. So to start things off, here is Line 2 of the metro at Nanjing Road East station.







Lots to come.


----------



## Svartmetall

More videos of the Shanghai Metro.

First a video of the interchange between Line 2 and Line 9 at Century Avenue Station. 










Xujiahui station interchange between Line 9 and Line 1 - this interchange is INCREDIBLY long! 










Platform view and view of a train leaving Xujiahui station and platform views (including platform information screens). 










Shanghai Jiaotong University Station. Line 10 platforms.


----------



## Northridge

^^What do you think of the differences between Shanghai and Beijing metro?


----------



## Svartmetall

Northridge said:


> ^^What do you think of the differences between Shanghai and Beijing metro?


Shanghai - obviously newer. Not only that but they seem to rely less upon interchanges compared to Beijing. Seems to be an unequal distribution between the "useful" lines and less useful - I mean look at the massive trip generators along line 2. 

Beijing - Clearly designed for interchanges on a grid-like set up. Very logical but often massively long interchanges. There seemed to be more variability in the size of the trains too, Shanghai seems to be a higher capacity system. 

The biggest difference, however, was in the attitude of the people. Beijingers have embraced subway etiquette far more than Shanghai has. I really preferred the Beijing subway for this reason.


----------



## Svartmetall

Some more videos from Shanghai.

First up, the daddy of all metro stations in the city - People's Square. This is an interchange between Line 1/8 to Line 2. This is a very long walk indeed!










Short video of a Line 2 train arriving at People's Square. These half-height platform screens are being trialled in Stockholm at the moment at Åkeshov station. 










Jing'an Temple Station. This is a very upmarket area in Shanghai, and it shows. Here is a Line 2 departure and a view of the concourse. Note the long delay in train departure. This was the worst aspect of the Shanghai metro. 










An interchange between the Line 2 entrance and Line 7 platforms at Jing'an Temple. For the first time you get to see the security scan at the entrance to the station. The security scans were MUCH less strict in Shanghai compared to Beijing. In Beijing I even got pat downs at times!










This is a long interchange between Line 1 and Line 7 at Changshu Road.










But that last interchange cannot match this one. South Shanxi Road interchange between line 1 and line 14. This interchange involved a walk outside as the station underground interchange is not finished yet. I pause at the plans for the station to let you have an idea of how the interchange will look. 











Line 14 arrival and departure at South Shanxi Road Station. 










Finally, Line 14 at Laoximen station. Note the looooooong station dwell times again. I gave up waiting for the train to leave!


----------



## CNGL

^^ Line 14? AFAIK it only has started construction recently. You probably meant line 10 . Oh, and it's South Sha*a*nxi Road (Or Shaanxi Nanlu as I have it). It would be Shanxi if it was 山西 instead of 陕西.


----------



## Svartmetall

Haha, you're right! Wow, did I ever mess that one up. Too many line numbers between Shanghai and Beijing and line colours.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

*Free wi-fi access to launch in Shanghai metro*

In a couple of months passengers of Shanghai metro will be able to use free wi-if access on the trains. Much of work is reported to be carried out now. Line 13 is being currently tested while the results will soon be disclosed. Also, they're starting to deploy the network on the other lines of the system










China.org.cn

The publication was on Facebook in Russian, so I did a quick translation.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/urban/single-view/view/shanghai-peoplemover-contract.html
> 
> *Shanghai peoplemover contract*
> 19 Jun 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CHINA: Shanghai Shentong Metro Co has awarded a joint venture of Bombardier Transportation and CSR Nanjing Puzhen an 808m yuan turnkey contract to supply a 6·6 km automated peoplemover for Shanghai.
> 
> The elevated alignment would run south from the terminus of metro Line 8 at Shendu Gonglu to the residential Pujiangzhen district with six stations. Opening is planned for December 2017.
> 
> The joint venture is to supply Bombardier’s Innovia APM 300 technology, including 11 four-car walk-through driverless trainsets, Cityflo 650 communications-based train control and an operations control centre
> 
> ...


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

_Night City Dream_ said:


> *Free wi-fi access to launch in Shanghai metro*
> 
> In a couple of months passengers of Shanghai metro will be able to use free wi-if access on the trains. Much of work is reported to be carried out now. Line 13 is being currently tested while the results will soon be disclosed. Also, they're starting to deploy the network on the other lines of the system
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China.org.cn
> 
> The publication was on Facebook in Russian, so I did a quick translation.


Pretty girls!


----------



## Silly_Walks

^^

Welcome to the internet.


----------



## skyrocket2

philip said:


> It looks like the Maglev Line will never be extended in the foreseeable future. Oh well.....


To where is this line to be extended? Maglev should connect far distances such as Beijing or HK or SG. Not somewhere close like a commuter suburb. The best use for Mag Ledpv is connecting nearby cities, such as Frankfurt and Luxembourg, or Bangkok and Pattaya.


----------



## ode of bund

skyrocket2 said:


> To where is this line to be extended? Maglev should connect far distances such as Beijing or HK or SG. Not somewhere close like a commuter suburb. The best use for Mag Ledpv is connecting nearby cities, such as Frankfurt and Luxembourg, or Bangkok and Pattaya.


You do realize how many NIMBYs are out there to screw it up, do you?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

One more type of transport for the best city in the world.


----------



## saiho

Shanghai Metro working on extending Line 2's 8 Car service to Pudong Airport 

Is the stations between Guanglan Road and Pudong International Airport long enough for 8 car trains?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

No. At least those that are not underground, they are much shorter.

I hope there will be run through service wi no need to change trains as it is now.


----------



## phoenixboi08

_Night City Dream_ said:


> No. At least those that are not underground, they are much shorter.
> 
> I hope there will be run through service wi no need to change trains as it is now.


Why exactly is the transfer currently necessary? I've always wondered...


----------



## doc7austin

This mandatory change at Guanglan Road is a pain in the ***.
People are pushing, all seats are taken within 100 miliseconds and people with large can squeeze themselves into the train again.


----------



## ode of bund

An eel spill on Shanghai Metro Line 1:naughty:


----------



## doc7austin

Some impressions from Shanghai Metro Line 16, esp. from the newly-opened section between Longyang Road and Luoshan Road stations.














































A video from the section between Longyang Road and Luoshan Road, which was only recently opened (December 28, 2014).







In early 2014 I have recorded this video of Shanghai Metro Line 16 between Luoshan Road and Dishui Lake (I have posted this video here about 17 months ago).
http://youtu.be/ylpCOGsaiiI


----------



## CNGL

I've noticed there is also some footage of line 2 at Nanjing Xilu in the video. The very same station that got renamed twice in a month in my version.


----------



## doc7austin

Yes, I did insert some footage from Line 2, mostly filmed between West Nanjing Road and Jing'an Temple.


----------



## The Chemist

_Night City Dream_ said:


> No. At least those that are not underground, they are much shorter.
> 
> I hope there will be run through service wi no need to change trains as it is now.


Actually, they are. You can see the roughed in sections of the platforms on the underground stations.


----------



## hkskyline

* First BRT route to link Fengxian with Pudong*
Shanghai Daily
July 17, 2015

The city’s first BRT route, or Bus Rapid Transit, will be completed in 2017. It will link a residential area in Fengxian District to Oriental Sports Center in the Pudong New Area.

The 33.5 kilometer long route will benefit 220,000 residents of Nanqiao New Town in Fengxian. BRT is a faster and more efficient bus service which has its own dedicated lanes, thus avoiding delays. The new route will include both specialized routes for public buses as well as mixed routes which it will share with other vehicles during non-peak hours. It is expected to cut the trip between Nanqiao New Town and Oriental Sports Center by half an hour to about 45 minutes.


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## saiho

Line 5 will extend platforms to accommodate 6 car C trains in anticipation of the Southern extension. C train specification dropped on all future lines. After the Line 16 3 car fiasco all future lines will start with 6 cars. 

Source


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## lkstrknb

Does anyone know about the Line 13 extension? I was taking a taxi to Line 2 Jinke Road station and passed a station entrance for Line 13 on Jinke Road. When is this supposed to open?

(There is a post a couple pages back about the Line 13 extension, but it says it opened in December 2014. It isn't on any of the subway maps yet.)


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## saiho

lkstrknb said:


> Does anyone know about the Line 13 extension? I was taking a taxi to Line 2 Jinke Road station and passed a station entrance for Line 13 on Jinke Road. When is this supposed to open?
> 
> (There is a post a couple pages back about the Line 13 extension, but it says it opened in December 2014. It isn't on any of the subway maps yet.)


The section between Changshou Road and Changqing Road will open at the end of 2015


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## CNGL

saiho said:


> Line 5 will extend platforms to accommodate 6 car C trains in anticipation of the Southern extension. C train specification dropped on all future lines. After the Line 16 3 car fiasco all future lines will start with 6 cars.
> 
> Source


They should also rebuild line 8 to accomodate A type trains, as it should have been from the beginning. But that would be quite expensive. And as such, line 8 will remain as the largest fail of all Chinese metro systems, along with Guangzhou's line 6.


lkstrknb said:


> Does anyone know about the Line 13 extension? I was taking a taxi to Line 2 Jinke Road station and passed a station entrance for Line 13 on Jinke Road. When is this supposed to open?
> 
> (There is a post a couple pages back about the Line 13 extension, but it says it opened in December 2014. It isn't on any of the subway maps yet.)


The extension that opened in December 2014 was from Jinshajiang Lu to Changshou Lu. From there to Changqing Lu (Including the Expo section), as Saiho said, will open by the end of current year, then to Huaxia Zhonglu in 2018 and finally to Zhangjiang Lu by 2020. I think you saw work on the Gebaini (Copernicus) Xuelin Lu station, in the last section.


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## saiho

CNGL said:


> They should also rebuild line 8 to accomodate A type trains, as it should have been from the beginning. But that would be quite expensive.


A better option is to build a new parallel line. 



CNGL said:


> And as such, line 8 will remain as the largest fail of all Chinese metro systems, along with Guangzhou's line 6.


You need Line 6 and 8 for planners to rattle their sabers at. Early subway lines in Shanghai and Guangzhou was criticized for low use, leading to Lines 6 and 8. Now that politicians know that low capacity trains are the stupidest ideas on earth there is an explosion of Type A subway lines being built.


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## Abhishek901

How feasible is to extend platforms of lines once built from technical point of view? Has this been done before in China?


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## saiho

Abhishek901 said:


> How feasible is to extend platforms of lines once built from technical point of view? Has this been done before in China?


I believe it has been done in the initial section of Tianjin Line 1 but it only had like 8 stations at the time and the subway stations was super shallow and simple. There is talk for platform extension work for Line 5 in shanghai and Line 1 in Beijing. Any elevated or ground level line would be super easy to extend platforms (like line 5). I guess the viaduct on line 5 has a very large safety factor or is a standard design so it can take the heaver loading.


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## Abhishek901

For how long would they need to shut the line if they decide to extend the platforms?


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## lkstrknb

I just posted my newest Shanghai Maglev video! I have rarely seen footage of the maglev trains leaving the depot early in the morning and negotiating the single track with steep grade and sharp curves.

I spent many hours walking along the maglev track looking for unique vantage points for viewing the maglev train speed by!


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## Pansori

lkstrknb said:


> I just posted my newest Shanghai Maglev video! I have rarely seen footage of the maglev trains leaving the depot early in the morning and negotiating the single track with steep grade and sharp curves.
> 
> I spent many hours walking along the maglev track looking for unique vantage points for viewing the maglev train speed by!


Wow good job. Has to be the best Shanghai maglev video ever!


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## hmmwv

lkstrknb said:


> I just posted my newest Shanghai Maglev video! I have rarely seen footage of the maglev trains leaving the depot early in the morning and negotiating the single track with steep grade and sharp curves.
> 
> I spent many hours walking along the maglev track looking for unique vantage points for viewing the maglev train speed by!


You sir, definitely got the best Shanghai Maglev videos! Thanks for spending the time and energy to capture those moments so we can enjoy!


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## _Night City Dream_

Stunning video. I liked most of all when Maglev trains runs along with metro trains (line 2 and 16). Thanks for sharing, I'll reshare that into our Russian section.


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## dixiadetie

_Night City Dream_ said:


> No. At least those that are not underground, they are much shorter.
> 
> I hope there will be run through service wi no need to change trains as it is now.


Many residential building should be tear down before the Maglev line Extend project undergo ，so it is not much possibility for the maglev line to go into the city center. hno:


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## Silly_Walks

Why? Modern tunnel boring doesn't require buildings to be torn down.


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## dixiadetie

Silly_Walks said:


> Why? Modern tunnel boring doesn't require buildings to be torn down.


if change the route to underground , it is OK for Maglev line go in to the city by tunnel ，cost a large amount of money.

But now the Maglev station of the city side is elevated , and the west end of the track is a large resident district , no space for the line to extend , so i think buildings to be removed before the line get extended.


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## Silly_Walks

Clearly Longyang Road Station would have to be altered for the line to go underground. But it is very much possible.

With all the fear regarding electromagnetic radiation from the Maglev the Shanghainese have developed, tunneling is oddly probably the cheapest, easiest and fastest way to get the Maglev to Lujiazui, People's Square and Hongqiao.


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## _Night City Dream_

By the way, what are the openings for Shanghai metro this year? How many stations and kilometers of tracks?


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## saiho

_Night City Dream_ said:


> By the way, what are the openings for Shanghai metro this year? How many stations and kilometers of tracks?


The rest of Line 12, Line 13 to Changqing Road and Line 11 to Disneyland.

About 50km of new lines with 28 new stations.


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## CNGL

Since my fictional Dairon metro has exactly the same layout as Shanghai's, I decided to remake that map into a Pinyin only Shanghai metro map. Since I have attempted to stick to Pinyin rules, some stations may be spelled differently (for example Xinjiangwancheng is rendered as Xin Jiangwan Cheng).









PS: During the remaking I actually confused Changshu Lu with Changshou Lu.


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## _Night City Dream_

saiho said:


> The rest of Line 12, Line 13 to Changqing Road and Line 11 to Disneyland.
> 
> About 50km of new lines with 28 new stations.


Is that really the rest of line 12 so that upon the completion of won't be extended any longer?

Changing road - where's that? Didn't find it.


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## The Chemist

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Is that really the rest of line 12 so that upon the completion of won't be extended any longer?
> 
> Changing road - where's that? Didn't find it.


On the map above, it's one stop to the left on Line 7 from Yaohua Rd (Line 7/8 interchange)


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## _Night City Dream_

Thanks. That should be a great job then as the new parts of lines 12 and 13 will run under the megadense core of Shanghai.


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## saiho

Shanghai Breaks Ridership Record on the 25th of Sept carrying 10,343,000.

Line 1: 1,370,000
Line 2: 1,770,000 
Line 3: 610,000
Line 4: 940,000
Line 5: 160,000
Line 6: 440,000
Line 7: 850,000
Line 8: 1,080,000
Line 9: 940,000 
Line 10: 860,000 
Line 11: 740,000
Line 12: 220,000
Line 13: 200,000 
Line 16: 160,000 

Sauce


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## drunkenmunkey888

saiho said:


> Shanghai Breaks Ridership Record on the 25th of Sept carrying 10,343,000.
> 
> Line 1: 1,370,000
> Line 2: 1,770,000
> Line 3: 610,000
> Line 4: 940,000
> Line 5: 160,000
> Line 6: 440,000
> Line 7: 850,000
> Line 8: 1,080,000
> Line 9: 940,000
> Line 10: 860,000
> Line 11: 740,000
> Line 12: 220,000
> Line 13: 200,000
> Line 16: 160,000
> 
> Sauce


Wow, line 2 has higher ridership per day than entire metro systems. And this is only under very condensed hours. Imagine if they extended hours of operations well into 1/2/3 AM like normal metros...


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## dbhaskar

I wonder why this subway does not run until 2 to 3 am at night...do they need all night for track maintenance?
It would mean more employment for night shift drivers, security personnel, as well as more revenue for the operator (unless the system runs at a loss...)


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## ode of bund

dbhaskar said:


> I wonder why this subway does not run until 2 to 3 am at night...do they need all night for track maintenance?
> It would mean more employment for night shift drivers, security personnel, as well as more revenue for the operator (unless the system runs at a loss...)


It is already running at a deficit.


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## saiho

dbhaskar said:


> I wonder why this subway does not run until 2 to 3 am at night...do they need all night for track maintenance?
> It would mean more employment for night shift drivers, security personnel, as well as more revenue for the operator (unless the system runs at a loss...)


Most subway systems run at a loss.


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## Pansori

saiho said:


> Most subway systems run at a loss.


How many subway systems actually make money? To my knowledge there is only 1. That is Singapore MRT. Maybe Hong Kong as well?


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## saiho

Pansori said:


> How many subway systems actually make money? To my knowledge there is only 1. That is Singapore MRT. Maybe Hong Kong as well?


Hong Kong has the highest cost recovery in the world at 180%.

There is also Tokyo Metro, Osaka Subway, Taipei MRT that run at a profit.
I heard the London Underground, Moscow Metro and Delhi Metro run at almost break even.


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## ukiyo

If we expand the terms to all rapid transit instead of just underground trains, a lot if not most of the systems in Japan's 2 main metropolitan areas have a fairbox ratio above 100%. The Tokyo metro and Osaka subway are both above Singapore. Hong Kong's is the most profitable though.

When you include the entire companies finances, than basically every rail company in Japan makes profits...but that includes real estate (renting station property to commercial users) etc.


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## _Night City Dream_

In the mentioned above cities fares are quite high. In Shanghai they are relatively low.


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## _Night City Dream_

saiho said:


> Hong Kong has the highest cost recovery in the world at 180%.
> 
> There is also Tokyo Metro, Osaka Subway, Taipei MRT that run at a profit.
> I heard the London Underground, Moscow Metro and Delhi Metro run at almost break even.


Moscow used to be. Now fares are lowered to encourage people to use it even more, so it doesn't make any profit. But there's talk of changing the business paradigm of the management.


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## Pansori

_Night City Dream_ said:


> In the mentioned above cities fares are quite high. In Shanghai they are relatively low.


If I remember well Singapore's fares are actually very low. They make money of renting out commercial space and other secondary activities.


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## Falubaz

^^Really? As i remember it - Singapore was pretty expensive, but you are right, after London everything is cheap... relatively..


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## Pansori

Falubaz said:


> ^^Really? As i remember it - Singapore was pretty expensive, but you are right, after London everything is cheap... relatively..


Fares on MRT are pretty similar to Chinese cities. Much cheaper than anywehere in Europe and cheaper than Hong Kong.


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## Zaz965

one good pic by bd popeye


bd popeye said:


>


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## _Night City Dream_

Museum???


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## dixiadetie

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Museum???


That is an exhibition of railway


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## nomnolence

LSE Cities has put this transport infrastructure map of Shanghai together from various sources. It represents a big change from the one drawn 10 years ago. Any suggestions on improvements or corrections welcome:

https://urbanage.lsecities.net/data/infrastructure-of-mobility-shanghai


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## saiho

nomnolence said:


> LSE Cities has put this transport infrastructure map of Shanghai together from various sources. It represents a big change from the one drawn 10 years ago. Any suggestions on improvements or corrections welcome:
> 
> https://urbanage.lsecities.net/data/infrastructure-of-mobility-shanghai


Line 3 and 6 is not drawn properly.


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## Ashis Mitra

Shanghai’s metro progress is no-doubt extraordinary. I’ve only three questions – 

1)	I heard in future, there is a plan to connect Shanghai metro with Suzhou metro & Wuxi Metro. Is it true? If yes, then what are the distances of Suzhou & Wuxi from Shanghai?

2)	If they will connect, will they use interurban metro line like Guangfo (connecting Guangzhou & Foshan)? Or particular some Shanglai metro lines will be extended further to connect those towns?

3)	I also heard within 10 years total route lingth of Shaghai metro will be 800 Kms, and Shangai will also construct an 800 Kms tram network. Are these true? If yes, please try to post some such future networks map or some detail information.


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## ukraroad

Too much progress... 30 years ago there were few stations see wiki


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## ramakrishna1984

New 35km-long Metro Line 17 is being built as part of Shanghai's 12th Five-Year Plan and is expected to start operations by 2018.


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## _Night City Dream_

^^
Line 8 in the picture.

As I can understand, line 17 will be mostly an on ground one.


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## hkskyline

* Metro Line 12 to open soon*
Shanghai Daily _Excerpt_
December 3, 2015










THE western extension to Metro Line 12 will go into service by the end of the month.

The extension features 16 stations, and the whole line now connects with every other on the network, except 5 and 16.

The system operator said the service will help to ease the pressure on lines 1 and 9 during peak hours.

To make the line even more appealing to passengers, all station platforms on the new extension have been fitted with air purifiers, the company said.


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## CNGL

I strongly expect Longhua Zhonglu and Longhua stations to be confused with each other. IIRC the former was initially named Chuanchang Lu, but it got renamed due to a change in the plans above ground.


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## ymeeq

I need 10 post count ...


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## _Night City Dream_

Subway systems at the same scale
Neil Freeman, 2004–

http://fakeisthenewreal.org/subway/


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## gowallstmichael

^^
very good, I can take a new adventure through the internet.

The website of Mexico City Metro looks great!:lol:


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## The Chemist

CNGL said:


> I strongly expect Longhua Zhonglu and Longhua stations to be confused with each other. IIRC the former was initially named Chuanchang Lu, but it got renamed due to a change in the plans above ground.


No worse than Shanghai Stadium and Shanghai Indoor Stadium.


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## The Chemist

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Subway systems at the same scale
> Neil Freeman, 2004–
> 
> http://fakeisthenewreal.org/subway/


The Shanghai one is wrong - it shows the southern extension of Line 5 that's nowhere near close to open.


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## Balkanada

The Chemist said:


> The Shanghai one is wrong - it shows the southern extension of Line 5 that's nowhere near close to open.


Perhaps the artist chose to include expansions in every system to prolong how "updated" the sketch will be


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## saiho

Balkanada said:


> Perhaps the artist chose to include expansions in every system to prolong how "updated" the sketch will be


Well then Line 13 and 12 extensions should be there. They will be opening in less than a month from now. But they are not.


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## Estenio Victor

wow


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## _Night City Dream_




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## dimlys1994

Three big openings today in Shanghai - Line 11 extension from Luoshan Road to Kangxin Highway, Line 12 - from Qufu Road to Qixin Road and Line 13 - from Changshou Road to Shibo Avenue (including previously opened section):
http://service.shmetro.com/dtxw/1280.htm


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## Zaz965

^^
:banana::banana:


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## CNGL

dimlys1994 said:


> Three big openings today in Shanghai - Line 11 extension from Luoshan Road to Kangxin Highway, Line 12 - from Qufu Road to Qixin Road and Line 13 - from Changshou Road to Shibo Avenue (including previously opened section):
> http://service.shmetro.com/dtxw/1280.htm


Wow! I need to update my Dairon metro map now, since it's based off Shanghai! I have renamed several stations there. A station has been renamed in real life Shanghai too: What was Lupu Daqiao during Expo 2010 is now Shibohui Bowuguan (Expo Museum).


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## giallo

Two new lines (line 12 and 13) opened right outside my apartment building in Shanghai yesterday. I now have 4 subway lines (1,10,12 and 13) all within a block of my place. Not many people seem to care in my social media circles, but I though you guys would appreciate it.

line 12 1 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr



line 12 2 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr



line 12 3 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr



line 12 5 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr



line 13 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr



line 12 4 by Andrew Rochfort, on Flickr


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## Falubaz

How long is the metro system in Shanghai now?


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## doc7austin

Is there any status update when the Line 12 and Line 13 Stations at Nanjing West Road will be opened?


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## CNGL

I believe they are open, but the transfer corridors between them and to line 2 aren't open yet, so technically there are three separate stations named Nanjing Xilu.


Falubaz said:


> How long is the metro system in Shanghai now?


Wikipedia lists it at 588 km, but that counts line 11 to Disneyland which is not yet operative. My data, which always misses some length, puts it at 575 km, pending revisions.


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## giallo

doc7austin said:


> Is there any status update when the Line 12 and Line 13 Stations at Nanjing West Road will be opened?


They both opened on Saturday.


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## _Night City Dream_

Mind boggling as usual. Any other openings before the end of the year?

Lines 12 and 13, their new extensions lie right down the dense and high-rise cluster, so it was difficult to build.


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## Woonsocket54

Newly opened station









http://slide.news.sina.com.cn/c/slide_1_2841_93029.html#p=1


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## mrsmartman

*Disney Resort*

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/Svs_Ag1lQ9E/


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## gowallstmichael

^^
Shanghai Disneyland Resort is due to open on June 16th, 2016.


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## phoenixboi08

gowallstmichael said:


> ^^
> Shanghai Disneyland Resort is due to open on June 16th, 2016.


What about the nearby resorts? I don't remember if those are part of the park or not, but I recall there being several large hotels and other commercial properties going up in the area.


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## VECTROTALENZIS

kix111 said:


> One thing that i miss a lot after moving to London is Shanghai's subway.
> 
> Never appreciated it when i was in Shanghai, but man do i miss it now.


Shanghai's infrastructure is more developed than London's.


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## Svartmetall

VECTROTALENZIS said:


> Shanghai's infrastructure is more developed than London's.


Which regards? It is of course newer for historical reasons so you can say "more modern" but I don't think you can say "more developed" given how extensive the infrastructure in London is.


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## _Night City Dream_

Svartmetall said:


> Which regards? It is of course newer for historical reasons so you can say "more modern" but I don't think you can say "more developed" given how extensive the infrastructure in London is.


Shanghai transport infrastructure in my opinion is far more developed than that of London. And it is not only about modernity.


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## kix111

Svartmetall said:


> Which regards? It is of course newer for historical reasons so you can say "more modern" but I don't think you can say "more developed" given how extensive the infrastructure in London is.


It really depends on how you define "developed". More modern, does, to a very big extent, mean more developed, as one would be able to integrate many modern technologies in building the infrastructure. The better way to say it I guess is Shanghai's subway is more developed BECAUSE it is built in modern times.

BUT, I do have to give it to London that the tubes generally run until 12am (where as in Shanghai the metro service stops at around 11pm), there are also many bus routes that run 24/7.

However, at the same time, I really dislike London's tube. It is small, slow and stuffy. The stations are also very dirty, the air quality is so bad that every time I take the tube and clean my nose with a tissue paper afterwards, the tissue would literally be black. The tunnels are dug very deep underneath the ground (Northern Line especially), and coupled with the fact that the walkways are like a maze, it usually takes around 2~3 minutes for you to get from the entrance to the platform. For a distance of about 2 tube stops, I would much rather walk than to actually take the tube because I cannot be bothered by the long trip to the platform.


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## kix111

Talking about infrastructures, UK is also known for its poor quality highways. I have personally experienced this myself driving around Scotland, and man, it is scary.

The highways are clearly not designed for modern cars. The lanes are very narrow with no shoulder on either side. I drove a big Range Rover and whenever I see an incoming truck, I had to give so much space I would probably end up having only about 5cm of asphalt left between the tyre and the earth.

Also it is incredibly dangerous to drive on Scottish highways during night time (which is after 4pm in Scotland). Not only are there no street lamps, there are no reflectors installed on the road. So literally I was driving in pitch black, guessing my way through to the destination.

Also, in New Zealand, right before a corner, there would be a warning sign stating the recommended speed at which you should go through the corner. In UK, it doesn't say anything. So you really have to judge yourself how tight the corner is.

Also, the nation rail in UK is very slow. It took me 6 hours to go from London to Edinburgh. In China, I could go from Shanghai to Beijing in 5hr30min.

I am not complaining about UK, I love London, but it is hard for me to believe that you think UK's infrastructures are developed.


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## Svartmetall

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Shanghai transport infrastructure in my opinion is far more developed than that of London. And it is not only about modernity.


Define "developed"? In terms of reach to the wider population, frequency, coverage etc. This is what I view as developed. For convenience and latest tech I would agree with you that Shanghai has the benefit of being a newer system and also masterplanned, whereas the tube was an organic growth from competing companies (much like the development of the Japanese rail system in fact). 



kix111 said:


> It really depends on how you define "developed". More modern, does, to a very big extent, mean more developed, as one would be able to integrate many modern technologies in building the infrastructure. The better way to say it I guess is Shanghai's subway is more developed BECAUSE it is built in modern times.
> 
> BUT, I do have to give it to London that the tubes generally run until 12am (where as in Shanghai the metro service stops at around 11pm), there are also many bus routes that run 24/7.
> 
> However, at the same time, I really dislike London's tube. It is small, slow and stuffy. The stations are also very dirty, the air quality is so bad that every time I take the tube and clean my nose with a tissue paper afterwards, the tissue would literally be black. The tunnels are dug very deep underneath the ground (Northern Line especially), and coupled with the fact that the walkways are like a maze, it usually takes around 2~3 minutes for you to get from the entrance to the platform. For a distance of about 2 tube stops, I would much rather walk than to actually take the tube because I cannot be bothered by the long trip to the platform.


Again, this comes to the organic development of London vs. the master planned development of Shanghai when it comes to the subway. Shanghai had the advantage of hindsight and the vast resources of a country behind it. London was started by private companies plying their routes and also revolutionised construction techniques for such a railway. Remember, London was the first in the world to do this. This has benefits and also drawbacks. 

As for the cleanliness - that is due to dust alone. There have been studies on the dust showing that it is not carcinogenic and/or persistent in your lungs so there is no risk there. There used to be more of a risk from old brakepads wearing down in the past and producing nasties, but they replaced those brakepads a while ago and so the risk is negligible now. 



kix111 said:


> Talking about infrastructures, UK is also known for its poor quality highways. I have personally experienced this myself driving around Scotland, and man, it is scary.
> 
> The highways are clearly not designed for modern cars. The lanes are very narrow with no shoulder on either side. I drove a big Range Rover and whenever I see an incoming truck, I had to give so much space I would probably end up having only about 5cm of asphalt left between the tyre and the earth.
> 
> Also it is incredibly dangerous to drive on Scottish highways during night time (which is after 4pm in Scotland). Not only are there no street lamps, there are no reflectors installed on the road. So literally I was driving in pitch black, guessing my way through to the destination.
> 
> Also, in New Zealand, right before a corner, there would be a warning sign stating the recommended speed at which you should go through the corner. In UK, it doesn't say anything. So you really have to judge yourself how tight the corner is.
> 
> Also, the nation rail in UK is very slow. It took me 6 hours to go from London to Edinburgh. In China, I could go from Shanghai to Beijing in 5hr30min.
> 
> I am not complaining about UK, I love London, but it is hard for me to believe that you think UK's infrastructures are developed.


Okay, this little rant about UK infrastructure is out of the scope of this topic, but I'll comment anyway - you should take the road complaints to the highways and autobahn section and the railways to the Railways section where there are threads on the UK there. 

One thing that you also forget is that roads are driven on by people. What matters most with a roading system is the people using it too. Whilst you cite the example of NZ, if you look at the death rate on the roads in NZ, it is far higher than in the UK. In fact, the UK has some of the safest roads in the world, so clearly they are not hampered that much by the "poor design". 

Those are also not "highways" - if you use the UK motorway or duel carriageway system then you'll find the quality to be comparable to the rest of the developed world. Admittedly the rural roads like you show are... More interesting, but still, they are built for the traffic they generally handle. Scotland is a sparsely populated part of the country, and admittedly not the most fun to drive. 

Finally, National Rail is very different to the CRH system. If you tried to take local trains in China you'd find they are very slow too. Britain doesn't have the advantage of being able to link metropolises of 20+ million by CRH like the Beijing - Shanghai route, nor does it have the same population along the railways as China does - apples and oranges really. Given Beijing + Shanghai = the entire population of England, you can see why the transport needs are different. Despite this, HSR2 is going ahead so you'll soon see more dedicated HSR lines in the UK. For now, National Rail serves to link up all towns and cities in the UK as best as possible. It is expensive and overpriced and was horribly underinvested in for many years, but this has changed somewhat in recent years, much to the benefit of the country. Still expensive, but the investment is at least happening. 

I think what fans of China forget is that few countries in the world have the centrally planned mechanisms of China. Nor do many countries have the resources of China. Nor do countries have the population of China to justify these grand infrastructure schemes. I often find that people compare the UK to France too when it comes to HSR, and I often have to remind them that the TGV came from the necessity that many towns and cities in France are actually separated by quite a large distance, unlike the close-knit towns and cities of England in particular (Scotland less so). Different countries have different reasons and routes for their development. If one likes one form of country over another I recommend moving there, though there is no panacea to be honest (and this is something I realise more and more as time goes on). One has to take the good with the bad and realise there are often explanations as to why something developed how it did. 

I applaud China for its development of a massive HSR system. I equally applaud it for its modern subways and good quality highways. But these developments have come about due to necessity and the ability to carry them out has come about due to the unique Chinese situation of being very centrally planned and having vast resources at their disposal. This has been of great benefit to China. Does that mean the rest of the world doesn't have "developed" infrastructure, no. Most developed nations have infrastructure that suit their needs at this particular time when taking into account money vs. benefit. NZ has no proper passenger rail in the entire North Island (one train down to Wellington that is only a tourist train). Why? Because they simply don't need one and there is no real consistent demand for one. Low population density and low population in general means that running a maglev between Auckland and Wellington will simply not be feasible. Equally in Sweden between Gothenburg and Stockholm. The converse is true in Japan where the Chuo maglev has become a necessity simply because the Tokaido Shinkansen cannot really cope with demand. Being able to better link a city of 35 million with a metropolitan area of 20 million (Keihanshin) via a metropolitan area of 15 million you see that the population and demand is clearly going to justify this economically given these metropolitan areas alone make up a population larger than most countries at 70 million people.


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## kix111

Wow, you don't need to be so over-defensive. Yes, we all know about London's early and organic development of the tube system. However, that is not a discount factor that you I would take into consideration in valuing how developed is the tube system. Rather, I would place much more weight on factors such as the coverage, the comfort of the ride and the accessibility.

As for the frequency, one thing I found about the tube is that during rush hours, the trains would come more frequently, but run a lot slower. My view is that they are trying to pack as many people in the trains as possible during rush hours because the platform is too small. So they would rather have people "wait" in the trains in the tunnel than having people actually wait on the platform.

Lastly, strikes. Lol.



Svartmetall said:


> One thing that you also forget is that roads are driven on by people. What matters most with a roading system is the people using it too. Whilst you cite the example of NZ, if you look at the death rate on the roads in NZ, it is far higher than in the UK. In fact, the UK has some of the safest roads in the world, so clearly they are not hampered that much by the "poor design".


This is a very uneducated comparison. You are comparing two objects without holding ANYTHING constant. If you are using the highway death rate between the UK and NZ to compare the quality of the highway, then the ideal testing environment is such that everything (from the population, to the weather) except for the highway between the UK and NZ are the same. While that is impossible, but we should at least hold the highway users' characteristics the same.

Hence, what you mentioned is a very unfair comparison, and does not infer anything about UK's highway safety. If NZ population were to drive on UK highways, the death rate may becomes a lot higher than that of NZ's. Seriously, I think your UK superiority shit need to stop. This is just absurd, calling people "fans of China".


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## Svartmetall

Defensiveness and UK superiority? I think you have me confused with another user indeed. Please show me where I think the UK is in any way superior to other countries? The answer is I really don't - otherwise I'd still be living there, but I don't, and I am very acutely aware of the faults of my birth country (of which there are many). I was just commenting that you cannot call the infrastructure "less developed" that's all. It's just developed differently and serves different purposes. It's old and rickety in places but it is still a highly developed and multi-modal system across the entire country in my opinion, and again that comes back to the semantics of what "developed" actually means. You will find infrastructure like that all across Europe - the narrow rural lanes of The Netherlands and Germany often look like the Scottish example, yet these countries are praised for their infrastructure. Equally, the train system of The Netherlands, which has a very low speed, acts like a gigantic commuter network due to the population density. There are no high speed alternatives other than travelling to Belgium. That doesn't mean it's not developed infrastructure. 

Again, coverage of the tube network is fairly good when married with overground and suburban rail services. Those rail networks overall cover the vast amount of metropolitan London. For comfort of the ride and accessibility, these are massive negatives agreed, and again, these are due to the legacy nature of the system compared to a purpose-built system. For the frequency - yes indeed there are often knock-on effects of overcrowding the system and yes, you often get people waiting in tunnels and/or trains travelling slowly. In fact that even happens in Stockholm, particularly on the central Green Line section where trains come every 30 seconds or so in rush hour simply because of the number of people attempting to be moved on one stretch of the line (and the problems of loading/unloading that go with that). Keeping people on the move, even if it means holding them in tunnels is preferable to platform crowding indeed. It's not an ideal solution (a higher capacity network would be) but it's the best they can do with a legacy system. I think all metro systems suffer from a similar phenomenon on highly trafficked stretches to be honest unless they have been planned with a remarkable amount of foresight. 

Of course the comparison is rough for roads. But the fact remains that the UK roads are indeed safer than NZ roads in all statistics, it was you that brought up the comparison of signposting on NZ roads compared to the UK, doesn't mean that the NZ roads are any safer thanks to these signposts though, does it. To me what matters is the end results not the means by which you actually get there when it comes to population outcomes. If the UK does it by driver education moreso than NZ (perhaps) rather than by engineering solutions and the outcome is better, then perhaps that is the best course of action. That's a debate for the other thread though, and I am quite happy to discuss there.

Anyway, I would very much request as a moderator that you tone down your language please. There is no need to resort to personal insults there, and it won't be tolerated in this section. On my part I apologise for using the phrase "fans of China", that was badly chosen and inappropriate.


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## kix111

Svartmetall said:


> I was just commenting that you cannot call the infrastructure "less developed" that's all. It's just developed differently and serves different purposes. It's old and rickety in places but it is still a highly developed and multi-modal system across the entire country in my opinion, and again that comes back to the semantics of what "developed" actually means.



I think we should just rest our discussion here, because in your opinion, "developed" is defined as everything but the shortfalls of London tube.


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## kunming tiger

oh I love a good debate on infrastructure, looks like I came to the right place.


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## Svartmetall

kix111 said:


> I think we should just rest our discussion here, because in your opinion, "developed" is defined as everything but the shortfalls of London tube.


I am the first to admit the tubes shortcomings I used it for many years from my childhood to my early adulthood and also when I get the opportunity to visit. But you'really right this has turned into a semantic discussion and I don't think either of us is willing to concede.

Besides no point in allowing you to get yet more likes from Vectro.


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## _Night City Dream_

Svartmetall, you're right with the history and other stuff but if we put it all aside, Shanghai metro (and not only metro) looks more developed that the transport of London as t is more modern, more comfortable, cheaper, safer (in case of metro). Road lain Shanghai are far better than those of London in terms of width and coverage.


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## Svartmetall

This is an argument I just cannot win so I'll call it quits. I have not disputed anywhere that Shanghai metro is actually better to use or generally a more pleasant experience, there I concede completely (I've used it in case you guys have forgotten). The only, and I mean ONLY point I have quibbled about is you guys calling London "less developed". As I said to Kix, this is purely semantic, and rather than clog the thread further (and also get like-bombed out of here) I'll leave you to it.


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## doc7austin

Shanghai Metro system shows its advantages esp. in the summer time.
All trains have air-conditioning. Moreover, the stations are quite cool, as well.
Compare that to the New York Subway (esp. the hot and stuffy station) and the London Tube (unbearable esp. the deep tunnel lines).


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## kix111

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Svartmetall, you're right with the history and other stuff but if we put it all aside, Shanghai metro (and not only metro) looks more developed that the transport of London as t is more modern, more comfortable, cheaper, safer (in case of metro). Road lain Shanghai are far better than those of London in terms of width and coverage.


I absolutely agree with you when it comes to the infrastructure, I think Shanghai metro is top-notch. But when it comes to the metro etiquette, I would by far prefer London tube. The overall experience in Shanghai metro, I think, is compromised by the rude passengers.

I appreciate most the fact that 99% of the time people in London tube would let you get off the train first before hopping onto the train. Inside the train, most people are also very self-aware of their positioning, so that they would make way for you to get off the train when they are blocking the door. However, like you said, London's tube experience is compromised by the lack of modernity.

Overall, I would still prefer Shanghai metro. The only time I prefer London tube is during the rush hours. I think there are far less people and people are well mannered.

With all that said, I feel like Shanghai's metro etiquette is improving year by year. In stations in richer and commercial areas of Shanghai (Lujiazui, West Nanjing Rd, Centry Park etc.), it is now the norm to actually queue up on either side of the door while waiting for the train. We used to have people just scrambling in front of the door. I hope to see that change in poorer residential areas like Hongkou Football Stadium.


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## Pansori

kix111 said:


> Also it is incredibly dangerous to drive on Scottish highways during night time (which is after 4pm in Scotland). Not only are there no street lamps, there are no reflectors installed on the road. So literally I was driving in pitch black, guessing my way through to the destination.


I see what you mean. I get sick while driving on UK roads. But mind you UK is among the leading nations (perhaps the leader?) in the EU (=world) in terms of road safety. Roads are not quite as great as they are in FR, NL or DE but the level of efficiency at which the infrastructure is utilized in practice is quite impressive. Driving culture adds much to that too.

Amazingly the adequacy and 'development' of infrastructure is not just about the technical specs but very much about the culture and manner in which it is used. A typical 2x2 or 3x3 motorway in UK or Germany has far more practical capacity (possibly even by _times_) than identical road in China simply because drivers behave differently and have different level of driving skills).


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## philip

*Shanghai's subway network is already longer* than any other systems in the world. Shanghai's subway has 617 km and 366 stations (source: http://www.shmetro.com/). And We are only talking about Bona Fide subway system, not suburban rails.

London has 400 km and 270 stations (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground)

*Shanghai's subway is more developed*, thank you. Most of the stations have platform screen doors, and they are even adding LED lights at the screen doors to alert people when the door opens.


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## kix111

I mean honestly, I dislike London Tube to a point that every time I take the Tube, I feel like I am penalising myself for being too lazy to find another viable means of transportation for me in London.

I absolutely hate the Tube for its hot, sweaty, and damp smell of mold, machinery, and coal. I hate how I see dust particles swirling around the staircases when I walk up the stairs. I hate it when the train enters the platform it creates a massive gust of wind. Couple that with the previous two points, all I can imagine is mold/dust particles being forced into my nostrils. 

Furthermore, I hate how I usually have to wait 15 minutes outside Holborn station 6pm on a weekday before I can even step foot into the station. This is equivalent to waiting 6-7 trains.

But yeah, whatever, that is just my personal opinion and I may not be representative of a typical Londoner. On a positive note, London Tube may have better coverage, Victorian mosaic, and ultimately, I guess it gets the job done (except when strike happens). To quote NCT, "it is hard not to love the Tube" when you have these perks right? One thing I know that I will miss for sure though - is MIND THE GAP!!! :lol:


/rant


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## dixiadetie

Zaz965 said:


> when are they going to split line 3 from line 4?


It was a plan to do this , but the cost to compensate the neighbor who should be tore down is too high and it is too hard to negotiation with the China Railway Company for building new tracks above part of the CR's depot. So Shanghai government gave up undertaking the plan.

To upgrade the capacity of these two lines in alternative way , SH metro is purchasing more trains , expanding the depot of line 3 . Trains will run more frequently at northern part of line 3 .


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## saiho

*Shanghai Metro Line 16 unveils first 6 car train*

3+3 linked train to start operating. I guess they finally acquired enough rolling stock to do this.



















Source


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## xeror

^^It's uncommon for metro trains to have x+x configuration. Normally new cars are inserted in the middle to increase the capacity. Is it going to be a permanent configuration for all trains on Line 16? Will the trains eventually become 6-car instead of 3+3?


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## doc7austin

I mean, they were originally running Line 16 trains only every 10 minutes at rush hour with 3-car trains. No wonder, these trains were become super-crowded.


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## Nouvellecosse

Is there really a global rolling stock shortage or is the issue only because of laws that require it all to be made domestically?


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## saiho

xeror said:


> ^^It's uncommon for metro trains to have x+x configuration. Normally new cars are inserted in the middle to increase the capacity. Is it going to be a permanent configuration for all trains on Line 16? Will the trains eventually become 6-car instead of 3+3?


There are linked metro trains. Guangzhou uses 3+3 on their B1 series rolling stock for Line 3. So does the new DT5 trains on the Hamburg U-Bahn. Also the Berlin U-Bahn HK and IK stock run in a 4+4 consist.



Nouvellecosse said:


> Is there really a global rolling stock shortage or is the issue only because of laws that require it all to be made domestically?


I believe it is a protectionist issue where China is opening subways faster than they can build trains to service them. However, Shanghai Metro has been very slow to order trains compared to the other Tier 1 cities. Beijing and Shenzhen have been so far especially diligent at placing supplementary and optional orders for rolling stock to augment existing lines.


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## xeror

saiho said:


> There are linked metro trains. Guangzhou uses 3+3 on their B1 series rolling stock for Line 3. So does the new DT5 trains on the Hamburg U-Bahn. Also the Berlin U-Bahn HK and IK stock run in a 4+4 consist.


Is there any reason for this rather than inserting middle cars? It's definitely more expensive in this way because the cab cars are more expensive to build, and the platforms may need to be a little longer. Capacity may also be less.


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## dixiadetie

http://photo.weibo.com/1882290537/w...54461989/pid/70317969gw1eyzc8qe5gwj20np0dyjx2

For reference

Here a chart shows new trains that purchased for Shanghai metro from 2013-2015

11*8-car-(A)train for line 1
33*6-car-(C)train for line 5
30*6-car-(A)train for line 7
11*4-car-robber type-train for line 8 phrase 3 (which is a new line independent from current line 8)
36*6-car-(A)train for line 9
36*6-car-(A)train for line 10
6*6-car-(A)train for line 11
15*6-car-(A)train for line 12
38*6-car-(A)train for line 13
49*8-car-(A)train for line 14(u/c)
54*6-car-(A)train for line 15(planned)
28*6-car-(A)train for line 17(u/c)
50*6-car-(A)train for line 18(planned)
6*4-car-(B)train for Pudong International Airport MRT
30*5-car-train for Songjiang Tram lines 

There mainly are 4 types of size of metro train （steel-wheel type） in mainland China :
*A*: length: 20~23 meters ; width: 3 m ;height : 3.8 m , 5 doors each side of a car.
*B*: length: 19 meters ; width: 2.8 m ;height : 3.8 m , 4(or 3) doors each side of a car.
*C*: length: 19 meters ; width: 2.6 m ;height : 3.8 m , 4 doors each side of a car.
*L*(Linear motors): length: 17 meters ; width: 3 m ;height : 3.6 m , 3 doors each side of a car.


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## saiho

Apparently Shanghai is working on a trolleybus eBRT line under the Yan'an Elevated Road. The design capacity is planned to be 15,000 ppl/hour/direction. This looks like it will be a local/distributor line with an average station spacing below 900m.

Source


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## _Night City Dream_

dixiadetie said:


> Here a chart shows new trains that purchased for Shanghai metro from 2013-2015
> 
> 11*6-car-(A)train for line 1
> 33*6-car-(C)train for line 5
> 30*6-car-(A)train for line 7
> 11*4-car-robber type-train for line 8 phrase 3 (which is a new line independent from current line 8)
> 36*6-car-(A)train for line 9
> 36*6-car-(A)train for line 10
> 6*6-car-(A)train for line 11
> 15*6-car-(A)train for line 12
> 38*6-car-(A)train for line 13
> 49*8-car-(A)train for line 14(u/c)
> 54*6-car-(A)train for line 15(planned)
> 28*6-car-(A)train for line 17(u/c)
> 50*6-car-(A)train for line 18(planned)
> 6*4-car-(B)train for Pudong International Airport MRT
> 30*5-car-train for Songjiang Tram lines


Why do they need so many new trains on existing lines? I can guess for line 1 and 2 to replace old Siemens trains yet they are not that old: just 20 years. Will they be decommissioned? What about the other lines? Does Shanghai really want to replace ALL trains on ALL lines within just 3 years?

The second question deals with line 1: why 6-car trains and not 8-car EMUs?


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## CNGL

The second question has a simple answer: it is a typo by dixiadetie. The chart indeed states 8-car trains.


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## saiho

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Why do they need so many new trains on existing lines? I can guess for line 1 and 2 to replace old Siemens trains yet they are not that old: just 20 years. Will they be decommissioned? What about the other lines? Does Shanghai really want to replace ALL trains on ALL lines within just 3 years?
> 
> The second question deals with line 1: why 6-car trains and not 8-car EMUs?


How is this a lot of trains? Apart from line 1 these trains are most likely there to supplement more service. 
Line 5, 9, 10 and 13 have major extensions opening next 2 years so it is natural that they need more trains. 
Lines 11, 12 and 13 just had extensions completed. It's not surprising the additional train orders have been placed as they expect to ramp up service. 
But the most important fact is that many Shanghai Metro lines have atrocious frequencies. Many lines run at headways of 3-5 min on the "busy" section during rush hours. The flood of train orders might have to do with the municipal government's recent pledge to reduce rush hour headways on all downtown lines to below 3 min by 2018.


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## The Chemist

dixiadetie said:


> http://photo.weibo.com/1882290537/w...54461989/pid/70317969gw1eyzc8qe5gwj20np0dyjx2
> 
> For reference
> 
> Here a chart shows new trains that purchased for Shanghai metro from 2013-2015
> 
> 11*6-car-(A)train for line 1
> 33*6-car-(C)train for line 5
> 30*6-car-(A)train for line 7
> 11*4-car-robber type-train for line 8 phrase 3 (which is a new line independent from current line 8)
> 36*6-car-(A)train for line 9
> 36*6-car-(A)train for line 10
> 6*6-car-(A)train for line 11
> 15*6-car-(A)train for line 12
> 38*6-car-(A)train for line 13
> 49*8-car-(A)train for line 14(u/c)
> 54*6-car-(A)train for line 15(planned)
> 28*6-car-(A)train for line 17(u/c)
> 50*6-car-(A)train for line 18(planned)
> 6*4-car-(B)train for Pudong International Airport MRT
> 30*5-car-train for Songjiang Tram lines
> 
> There mainly are 4 types of size of metro train （steel-wheel type） in mainland China :
> *A*: length: 20~23 meters ; width: 3 m ;height : 3.8 m , 5 doors each side of a car.
> *B*: length: 19 meters ; width: 2.8 m ;height : 3.8 m , 4(or 3) doors each side of a car.
> *C*: length: 19 meters ; width: 2.6 m ;height : 3.8 m , 4 doors each side of a car.
> *L*(Linear motors): length: 17 meters ; width: 3 m ;height : 3.6 m , 3 doors each side of a car.


According to the maps in Metro stations and other information I've found online, Line 15 is under construction now, not just planned. 



> Why do they need so many new trains on existing lines? I can guess for line 1 and 2 to replace old Siemens trains yet they are not that old: just 20 years. Will they be decommissioned? What about the other lines? Does Shanghai really want to replace ALL trains on ALL lines within just 3 years?


Line 5 is getting many new trains not only for the extension south of the river that'll be opening in the future but also because the platforms for this line are being lengthened from 4 cars to 6 cars.


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## z0rg

Does any Chinese city use 8 car train sets for its subways?


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## dixiadetie

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Why do they need so many new trains on existing lines? I can guess for line 1 and 2 to replace old Siemens trains yet they are not that old: just 20 years. Will they be decommissioned? What about the other lines? Does Shanghai really want to replace ALL trains on ALL lines within just 3 years?
> 
> The second question deals with line 1: why 6-car trains and not 8-car EMUs?


hno: Sorry for the mistake , 11 8-car train will be purchased for line 1 .
I think the old Siemens trains will be decommissioned at their 30s . Surely all the trains in the current lines will not be decommissioned at the moment .

With the lessen that not enough train for new lines or for the current lines (in the rush hour , the frequency of line 2 is just 3 min , far not enough) , resulting in heavy congestion , Shanghai metro fore seeing the growth of passengers and buy more trains in such a great amount to upgrade the capacity of each line , shorten the waiting time for the next train .


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## dixiadetie

z0rg said:


> Does any Chinese city use 8 car train sets for its subways?


Guangzhou(广州): A type: line 11 , line 13
Shenzhen（深圳）:A type: line 11 , line 14
Beijing（北京）: line 6 (B Type) ; A type: line 3 , line 16 , line 17 , line 18 , line 19
Wuhan（武汉）： B type:line 2 (reserved space for 8-car train , currently 6-car trains are running), line 7 , line 8 , line 11 
Chongqing(重庆): Monorail: line 2(reserved space for 8-car train , now 4/6-car trains are running ) , line 3 ( now 6/8-car trains are running )


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## _Night City Dream_

saiho said:


> How is this a lot of trains? Apart from line 1 these trains are most likely there to supplement more service.
> Line 5, 9, 10 and 13 have major extensions opening next 2 years so it is natural that they need more trains.
> Lines 11, 12 and 13 just had extensions completed. It's not surprising the additional train orders have been placed as they expect to ramp up service.
> But the most important fact is that many Shanghai Metro lines have atrocious frequencies. Many lines run at headways of 3-5 min on the "busy" section during rush hours. The flood of train orders might have to do with the municipal government's recent pledge to reduce rush hour headways on all downtown lines to below 3 min by 2018.


OK, now that sounds a bit more reasonable but will that mean headways will no be very small, just like we do here in Moscow? Some 85 - 90 seconds between trains during rush hour and some 2 - 3 min in other time?

What major extensions do you mean for lines like 9 and 10 for example? I mean there will be an extension but still 30 EMUs more per each sounds a huge figure it is almost twice as much there are on these lines now. Okay, I can get it for line 10 since headways there now are awful but line 9 is quite well served + it won't have a very long extension.

I hope though Shanghai will have really decent headways and not only during rush hour.


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## _Night City Dream_

kix111 said:


> I miss having cellular connection and checking my social network while taking the subway.


Are there so many "gaps" on the Rube with no coverage?


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## _Night City Dream_

dixiadetie said:


> 6*4-car-(B)train for Pudong International Airport MRT
> 30*5-car-train for Songjiang Tram lines


I missed that though. What MRT is meant here and how long will be the line?

How long will be the tram trains in Songjiang?


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## kunming tiger

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Blue line, is it MagLev line extension to Hongqiao?


Has such an extension been approved?


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## Pansori

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Blue line, is it MagLev line extension to Hongqiao?


Wasn't there a talk about some conventional rail/metro line connecting both airports at the speeds of up to 160km/h?


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## saiho

Pansori said:


> Wasn't there a talk about some conventional rail/metro line connecting both airports at the speeds of up to 160km/h?


The blue line is the conventional rail line connecting both airports at the speeds of up to 160km/h.


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## _Night City Dream_

How long is the travel supposed to be between the two hubs? I guess it will take more than 30 minutes.


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## lkstrknb

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Blue line, is it MagLev line extension to Hongqiao?


I wish! The maglev line is not included on the map. This is where the maglev line should show up on the map.







[/url]Shanghai Maglev Map by Luke Ord, on Flickr[/IMG]


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## CarlosBlueDragon

Hello
I want know
Shanghai Disneyland theme park
which line number??


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## dixiadetie

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Blue line, is it MagLev line extension to Hongqiao?


It was said that the MagLev will be tore down for the new rail-style commuter line . Anyway , it is 13 years old , and the factory which made the train product has gone .....hno:


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## dimlys1994

CarlosBlueDragon said:


> Hello
> I want know
> Shanghai Disneyland theme park
> which line number??


Line 11


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## CarlosBlueDragon

^^Thank You


----------



## saiho

In 2015 Shanghai Metro carried 3.068 billion passengers, up 8.5 percent. I expect similar or greater growth this year as two major downtown lines opened.

Source


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## dixiadetie

*Shanghai Line 2*

*Photoed by @赵梓淇OrangeJuice *

Long Yang Lu （龙阳路）, the interchange with line 7\16\ maglev . It is not the station in the central urban , but it is a quite busy station .
There are movable fences on the platform instead of usual platform screen doors or safety doors .For historical problem about the air condition system .









AC02 , the first generation train of line 2 , made by Siemens form 1999 to 2001 . 128 cars in total .It was 6-car train arrangement , after the train-extension program started in 2008 , it became the 8-car train . The additional carriages were came form AC01 belongs to line 1 , same type train form Siemens.









Yuandong Avenue Station , a stop of line 2 eastern section which running by 4-car train , AC17b , made by Nanjing Puzhen Rolling Stock Works , it also will become the 8-car train when the passengers growth and the stations have that space . 









Look to the east . The middle track goes to the ChuanSha Depot (川沙停车场).


















Look to the west . Two viaducts combine into one . That's beautiful . The Airport express way is on the right .


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## _Night City Dream_

saiho said:


> In 2015 Shanghai Metro carried 3.068 billion passengers, up 8.5 percent. I expect similar or greater growth this year as two major downtown lines opened.
> 
> Source


What lines at supposed to open this year?


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## CNGL

None, other than line 11 to Dishini (Disneyland) station, which has already been completed. Shanghai is taking a break this year, however in 2017 some big openings will take place: Line A (a rubber-tyred line from the Southern terminus of line 8, Shendu Gonglu), Line 17, and extensions to lines 5 and 9.


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## saiho

_Night City Dream_ said:


> What lines at supposed to open this year?


Only the Line 11 Extension 1 stop into Disney Land.


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## saiho

Line 19 route.























































Source


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## _Night City Dream_

No correspondance with line 2 at Dongchang road?


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## _Night City Dream_

I wonder what size would be the trains on new lines.


----------



## saiho

*Express service resumes on Line 16*

Last week express services where re-implemented on Line 16










Source


----------



## CNGL

Yesterday Shanghai Metro article on Wikipedia was nominated for deletion because it is 'too crowded'. Of course it was done as part of April Fools' Day, and obviously the article was speedy kept.


----------



## saiho

Shanghai Metro hit a ridership record yesterday with 11.299 million riders.

Break down by line:

Line 1: 1.42 million
Line 2: 1.77 million
Line 3: 640,000
Line 4: 950,000
Line 5: 180,000
Line 6: 470,000
Line 7: 890,000
Line 8: 1.08 million
Line 9: 970,000
Line 10: 880,000
Line 11: 860,000
Line 12: 620,000
Line 13: 370,000
Line 16: 190,000


----------



## kix111

^^Wasnt it the tomb sweeping day in China yesterday? I am guessing a lot of people are now preferring to travel to cemeteries via metro to avoid traffic jams on the highway.


----------



## dixiadetie

*普通的魔都地铁Disco（Common Shanghai Metro disco）*

A funny REMIX of Shanghai Metro announcement and ring bells .

*魔都* means "Magical City" refers to Shanghai , the most powerful city in China .

*Tips* :it feels be better to listen to this song with your head phone.


----------



## dixiadetie

*AC17-b rolling stock on line 2*

*Photoed by @赵特特爱轨交*

Griphook in AC-17b rolling stock . It has spaces for ads . The ad in the pic is an official propaganda for Shanghai Metro .









AC-17b is 4-car trian , made by Alstom and Nanjing Puzhen Rolling Stock Works in 2009 . 16 sets in total . 
There are AC-17a ,which is 8-car train , also run on line 2 but in "Guanglan Rd. -- East Xujing"
A set of 8-car AC-17a train was tore apart into 4-car trian to serve the "Guanglan Rd.--Pudong International Airport" sectoin . So the total amount of AC-17b is 17 sets .









The "Guanglan Rd--Pudong International Airport" section , also called "The eastern Section" , has a frequency form 8min30s to 6min30s . So the two AC-17b came across each other will be rare to be seen .


----------



## dixiadetie

*8-car train service extension of line 2*

*Pic from @上海轨道交通俱乐部* (Shanghai Rail Transit Club)

To release the rush hour pressure of "Guanglan Rd.（广兰路） --- PuDong International Airport（浦东国际机场）" section . The 8-car train service will be extended to Tangzhen(唐镇) . 
Trial run of this plan unertaken in Mar 19th and 20 th . Apr 6th and 7th , 13rd and 14th , "East Xujing -- Tangzhen“ service is 8 min per train .
The program will be finished in 2016 (maybe:lol

BUT this is the first step that the 8-car train service run through line 2 from East XuJing to PVG
The whole service extension program will be finished about 2020 .

*Upper strip map *: Rush hour schedule of line 2 . 4 services operated (as you can see) . 
They are "Songhong Rd.(淞虹路) -- Guanglan Rd（广兰路）" ,
"East Xujing（徐泾东） -- Guanglan Rd.（广兰路）" , 
"PVG（浦东国际机场） -- Guanglan Rd（广兰路）" ,
"East Xujing（徐泾东） -- Tangzhen（唐镇）"

*Lower one* : Off peak hours schedule of line 2 . 3 services operated .


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Guys, are there any developments of Shanghai trains? I'd like to try making some models out of papers. And, I'd be grateful if you could provide me with the exact dimensions of each car of each type.


----------



## Woonsocket54

Disney Resort station has opened. This is the new terminus of line 11.



















http://www.urcities.com/native/20160426/21891.html

More photos/info here:

http://shanghaiist.com/2016/04/26/disney_metro_station.php


----------



## _Night City Dream_

I thought it would be something more appealing.


----------



## CNGL

Due to my policy of calling stations by its local name, I know that station as Dishini. I wasn't expecting it to open now, given that Disneyland won't open until June 16. I like how from there one can go directly to Jiading Bei over 60 km away but, contrary to what one would expect, going to Huaqiao (already in Jiangsu province) requires a transfer within line 11, as Huaqiao-bound trains only go as far as Sanlin.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...-venture-to-operate-shanghai-peoplemover.html
> 
> *Keolis joint venture to operate Shanghai peoplemover*
> 04 May 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CHINA: Shentong Metro Group has selected the Shenkai joint venture of its subsidiary Shanghai Shentong Consulting (51%) and Keolis (49%) for the operation of the automated peoplemover that will form the southern section of Shanghai metro Line 8. The contract signed on April 27 includes two years of pre-operational work and five years of operations and maintenance from opening of the line in December 2017.
> 
> The 6·6 km elevated alignment will run south from the terminus of metro Line 8 at Shendu Gonglu to the residential Pujiangzhen district with six stations. Construction started in January 2015
> 
> ...


----------



## _Night City Dream_

How's the project now?


----------



## Zaz965

line 11 extension to disney resort :cheers:








http://www.shanghaidaily.com/metro/public-services/All-aboard-the-Disney-express/shdaily.shtml


----------



## xeror

^^They open the station earlier than the opening of Disneyland probably for the employees' commute.


----------



## maginn

xeror said:


> ^^They open the station earlier than the opening of Disneyland probably for the employees' commute.


I think the park opens tomorrow for trial operations so it won't be absolute chaos on the official opening day...


----------



## xavier114fch

xeror said:


> ^^They open the station earlier than the opening of Disneyland probably for the employees' commute.


The park is in trial operation from May 7 until the grand opening on June 16. Disneytown, the "downtown area" outside the park, also opens now.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

How long is the opened trunk?


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...shanghai-metro-line-5-trains.html?channel=525
> 
> *Alstom to modernise Shanghai metro Line 5 trains*
> Wednesday, May 18, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _SHANGHAI Shentong Metro Group has awarded a €46m contract to Alstom to modernise 68 metro cars operating on Line 5 of the Shanghai metro and to supply traction equipment for 198 new cars_
> 
> Shanghai Alstom Transport (Satco), Alstom's Chinese joint venture company, supplied the 68 cars for the 17.5km Line 5 in 2003, and Alstom will now modernise them to improve their reliability and make them compatible with a new signalling system which is being installed on Line 5
> 
> ...


----------



## CNGL

According to what I read lately, line 18 started construction in mid-May. The section from Changbei Lu to Changjiang Nanlu was put on hold while plans were being revised, but in the end it was untouched and will start at a later date. The rest, from Changjiang Nanlu to Hangtou, is the part now U/C and will bring yet another line to Longyang Lu.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...ngjiang-tramway-lrv-unveiled.html?channel=526
> 
> *Shanghai Songjiang Tramway LRV unveiled*
> Wednesday, June 15, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _THE first Silkworm low-floor LRV for the initial phase of the light rail network in the Songiang district of Shanghai was unveiled at the Rail+Metro China exhibition in Shanghai on June 14_
> 
> Shanghai Songjiang Tramway Investment and Operation Company awarded a joint venture of Alstom and Shanghai Rail Traffic Equipment Development Company (Satco) a €72m contract in April 2015 to supply 30 vehicles, which are the first in China to be based on Alstom's Citadis LRV
> 
> ...


----------



## dixiadetie

*Shanghai Metro Line 6*

*Photoed by @赵梓淇OrangeJuice*

Shanghai metro line 6 is a light rail line (for it is using 4C-train) located in Pudong .
Surrouding by the resident area , with only 4-car train operating , it is extremely crowded in morning rush hour . But in the off-peak hours , it is a good line to enjoy !









The AC14 train is made by Changchun Railway Vehicles . 29 sets in total .Made in 2009~2010 . Purchased for growing number of passengers and releasing pressure of the rush hour. 
There are mobile fences on the platfrom prevent form falling into the track .


















These "Y" shape hand rail is a special point of AC14 .Decorated with pink color , the internal looks beautiful .









The number of the train and the logo of ShangHai Metro are on it's head . The face of the train looks like loach









Elevated track is close to the residential building . So the people who live there may confused with the noise from trains . 
Anyway he curve of the track is beautiful .









"No smoking" and other signs are on the doors .









The blue "停" ("stop" in Chinese)sign helps the driver to stop the train at a right position .


----------



## Pansori

dixiadetie said:


> The blue "停" ("stop" in Chinese)sign helps the driver to stop the train at a right position .


No ATO? :?


----------



## dixiadetie

In the rush hour they use ATO for accurate stop and for high frequency .Then in the off peak hours . The trains will be driven by the drivers .


----------



## Pansori

dixiadetie said:


> In the rush hour they use ATO for accurate stop and for high frequency .Then in the off peak hours . The trains will be driven by the drivers .


Why can't it be used at all times?

Also did Shanghai metro frequencies improve since 2014? I remember the chaos at one of the lines in People's Square when at around 6p.m. the platforms and trains were hopelessly overcrowded (to a hazardous level if you ask me) yet train frequency was every 5 minutes or so instead of being every 1 minute as it normally should be.


----------



## Ashis Mitra

Shanghai Metro is quite going satisfactorily, and covers almost the entire Shanghai. This is very good that all main streets are now served by subway system, and makes a dense grid. Today this is the largest metro network of the world.

Massive construction is going. A number of new lines and extensions are under construction. Those are – 

1)	*Line 5* will be extended to western Shanghai.
2)	*Line 8* will be extended to southern Shanghai.
3)	*Line 9* will be extended to northeastern Shanghai.
4)	*Line 10* will be extended to northeastern Shanghai.
5)	*Line 13* will be extended to southeastern Shanghai.
6)	*Line 14* will connect the eastern and western Shanghai.
7)	*Line 15* will connect the northwestern and southern Shanghai.
8)	*Line 17* will connect the northeastern and southeastern Beijing in 2019.
9)	*Line 18* will connect northcentral and southeastern Shanghai
10)	*Line 19* will connect the eastern and northeastern Shanghai crossing the sea.
11)	*Line 20* will connect the northwestern and western Shanghai.
12)	*Line 21* will connect the northcentral and westcentral Shanghai.

Around 2025, Shanghai Metro network will be more than 1000Km, long.


----------



## CNGL

Ashis Mitra said:


> Shanghai Metro is quite going satisfactorily, and covers almost the entire Shanghai. This is very good that all main streets are now served by subway system, and makes a dense grid. Today this is the largest metro network of the world.
> 
> Massive construction is going. A number of new lines and extensions are under construction. Those are –
> 
> 8)	*Line 17* will connect the northeastern and southeastern *Beijing* in 2019.


:nuts:


Ashis Mitra said:


> 10)	*Line 19* will connect the eastern and northeastern Shanghai crossing the sea.
> 11)	*Line 20* will connect the northwestern and western Shanghai.
> 12)	*Line 21* will connect the northcentral and westcentral Shanghai.


I guess you haven't seen the revised plans yet. They have introduced new lines from 19 to 25, including the return of line 22. What was line 19 was changed to a commuter rail line and what were lines 20 and 21 were chopped into several sections and given to new lines.









Additional forumers that liked this post: Ashis Mitra, ChuckScraperMiami#1, geometarky, ukraroad


----------



## Arnorian

What is the blue line between the airports?


----------



## urbanfan89

^^ Looks like a HSR connection between Pudong and Hongqiao airports. Long overdue imo.


----------



## Zaz965

huge :cheers::cheers:


----------



## Pansori

urbanfan89 said:


> ^^ Looks like a HSR connection between Pudong and Hongqiao airports. Long overdue imo.


Wasn't there meant to be a 160km/h line connecting the airports?


----------



## Ashis Mitra

CNGL said:


> :nuts:
> 
> 
> I guess you haven't seen the revised plans yet. They have introduced new lines from 19 to 25, including the return of line 22. What was line 19 was changed to a commuter rail line and what were lines 20 and 21 were chopped into several sections and given to new lines.


Wow, thank you for the information


----------



## mrsmartman

Shanghai will be New York in China.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

mrsmartman said:


> Shanghai will be New York in China.


It's pretty uncanny if you think about it. Shanghai is New York. Hangzhou is Philadelphia, while Nanjing is Boston. Between Nanjing and Shanghai, you have your Suzhou/Stamford, Wuxi/Bridgeport, Changzhou/New Haven and Zhenjiang/Providence. It's not only that Shanghai will be New York, but the Yangtze River Delta will be the Tri-state Area in China.


----------



## ddes

urbanfan89 said:


> ^^ Looks like a HSR connection between Pudong and Hongqiao airports. Long overdue imo.


It's labelled as "Airport Express", not specifically referring to a high-speed rail connection although there was news about a China Railways link which went nowhere. I didn't even see any indication of anything being built at Pudong Airport when I was there a few months back.


----------



## Ashis Mitra

I heard Shanghai is planning an 800 Km. tram network. Is it true? If yes it will be fantastic. Please give me some details about this.i.e tram map of the future system, and a description about the future network.


----------



## CNGL

It has been reported so, although so far plans have been released for Songjiang (two lines are already U/C), the area beyond Hongqiao airport and station, and Jiading. A riverside tram running from the Bund to the Expo 2010 area is also planned. It is also known there will be at least one line of suspended monorail a la Wüppertal.


----------



## dixiadetie

Pansori said:


> Why can't it be used at all times?
> 
> Also did Shanghai metro frequencies improve since 2014? I remember the chaos at one of the lines in People's Square when at around 6p.m. the platforms and trains were hopelessly overcrowded (to a hazardous level if you ask me) yet train frequency was every 5 minutes or so instead of being every 1 minute as it normally should be.


Because drivers need to keep training to be skillful .

Shanghai Metro keep upgrading the capacity in the recent years . With more trains purchased , more new lines and new facilities being built , the capacity of metro line is up . But the train still crowded in the rush hour .
You can find the frequency of each line *here .*


----------



## SSMEX

dixiadetie said:


> Because drivers need to keep training to be skillful .
> 
> Shanghai Metro keep upgrading the capacity in the recent years . With more trains purchased , more new lines and new facilities being built , the capacity of metro line is up . But the train still crowded in the rush hour .
> You can find the frequency of each line *here .*


My experience with the Shanghai Metro is that many lines are insanely crowded during commute hours. I've never looked up the headways until now but I noticed that there's there's only three lines with sub-3 minute headways and none have headways of less than 2:15. Is there any reason for this, even with ATO?

At 2:30 headways (which is all but one line), that's 24 trains per hour. The Victoria Line in London can run 36 trains per hour and the Lexington Ave line in NYC can do 53 trains per hour, although that's combining express and local service. For a system known for its insane crowding and rapid advancement, is there a reason why no line exceeds ~24 tph?


----------



## phoenixboi08

SSMEX said:


> My experience with the Shanghai Metro is that many lines are insanely crowded during commute hours. I've never looked up the headways until now but I noticed that there's there's only three lines with sub-3 minute headways and none have headways of less than 2:15. Is there any reason for this, even with ATO?
> 
> At 2:30 headways (which is all but one line), that's 24 trains per hour. The Victoria Line in London can run 36 trains per hour and the Lexington Ave line in NYC can do 53 trains per hour, although that's combining express and local service. For a system known for its insane crowding and rapid advancement, is there a reason why no line exceeds ~24 tph?


Could it have anything to do with constraints on rolling stock? I remember hearing that this has been quite a big problem, for them, over the last several years.


----------



## saiho

phoenixboi08 said:


> Could it have anything to do with constraints on rolling stock? I remember hearing that this has been quite a big problem, for them, over the last several years.


Shanghai has been a little lazy in ordering rolling stock. However, the municipal government has pledged to reduce average rush hour headways on all downtown lines to below 3 min by 2018.


----------



## Ashis Mitra

CNGL said:


> It has been reported so, although so far plans have been released for Songjiang (two lines are already U/C), the area beyond Hongqiao airport and station, and Jiading. A riverside tram running from the Bund to the Expo 2010 area is also planned. It is also known there will be at least one line of suspended monorail a la Wüppertal.


What type of those lines will be? Like present Translohr? or traditional steel wheel with overhead wire?


----------



## ode of bund

Following the foot steps of Beijing, Shanghai is building a new "Medium Capacity Transit" line along Shanghai's east-west axis. The medium capacity transit is essentially a trolley BRT, but Shanghai does not want to call it a BRT, but instead created this new terminology "medium capacity transit".

The construction of "medium capacity transit" (trolley BRT) had officially started on June 25. The whole project involves construction of 17.5 km of dedicated BRT style bus lanes along Yan-an Road and western extension of Yan-an Road Hu-Qing-Ping Highway, 13~14 km of new overhead, new substations that supply 750V DC power, and a temporary trolley garage.

Here is a bit of history of Yan-an Road. This is the busiest east-west thorough-fare of Shanghai, the eastern portion of today's Yan-an Road was constructed by filling up a stinky gully in 1914~1915. The stinky gully was a open sewage effluent that discharged directly into River Huangpu. When the road was constructed, it became the boundary street between the International Settlement (English and American Concession) and French Concession, and the name of this new road was Avenue Edward VII. The middle stretches and western stretches of today's Yan-an Road have two different names respectively.

The whole street was renamed as Yan-an Road in 1949 (Yan-an West Road, Yan-an Central Road, Yan-an East Road respectively). Yan-an (延安) is in northern Shaanxi Province, at the southern edge of Gobi Dessert. Yan-an was the "holy site" of "proletariat revolution", and till this day, Yan-an Road is still a very popular street name in many cities across China, Shanghai's next door neighbor Hangzhou also has a Yan-an Road, and it is a busy commercial street.

Even though Shanghai's electric transit can be dated back to 1908 when first tram line was built, and Shanghai has the oldest trolley-bus system in the world, Shanghai's planner and transportation engineering department seem to be deliberately avoid building electric transit on Yan-an Road, the only exception was from 1990 to 1996 when Tunnel Bus Line 5 was running, but in a much larger time span, Yan-an Road never saw trams, trolley-buses, or even today's modern subways, the transit services have always been straight buses.

Leaving downtown Shanghai, Yan-an Road eventually becomes Hu-Qing-Ping Highway (沪青平公路), Hu-Qing-Ping are three characters that represent the first characters of three places, Hu is the alias and abbreviation of Shanghai, Qing is the suburban District of Qingpu (青浦) (used to be Qingpu County), and Ping is Pingwang (平望), a place in neighboring Zhejiang Province. Hu-Qing-Ping Highway is also part of the 5476km Trans-China Highway known as National Hwy 318 that starts in Shanghai and finishes in Tibet.
To alleviate the severe traffic congestion on Yan-an Road, via-ducts were built on Yan-an Road in the late 1990's, and this new via-ducts system became known as today's east-west crosstown via-duct.

So the new "medium capacity transit" line will be mainly running underneath this crosstown via-duct system. The new route will begin at the Bund, the waterfront area, traveling west along Yan'an Road to Hu-Qing-Ping Highway, and terminate at Hu-Qing-Ping Highway/Shenkun Road (沪青平公路/申昆路).

Hu-Qing-Ping Highway/Shenkun Road terminus is actually already very close to Hongqiao Airport Terminal 2 and Hongqiao High Speed Railway Station, therefore some questioned why the service is not going into the airport or the high speed railway station, the answer according the designing committee was ridership would be monitored to determine whether or not to extend it to Hongqiao Hub (airport and HSR). The project is expected to finish in January, 2017.
There will be 25 stations (including terminal stations) along the route, the stations will be either central island platform loading or staggered platform loading. Overhead coverage will begin at Hu-Qing-Ping Highway/Wubao Road (沪青平公路/吴宝路), and terminate at the North-South Via-duct. I asked my friend Song Wenchao why overhead cannot be stretched all the way to the Bund, he responded by saying the clearance at the intersection where East-west Via-duct meets the North-south Via-duct is insufficient to suspend overhead, so trolleys will have to operate off wire from North-south Via-duct to the Bund.

The short term plan for the bus fleet will consist 40 18-m left loading articulated trolleys, and 28 12-m left loading trolleys, the long term plan will see the fleet expand to 50 and 36 respectively. These buses will not be in the sense of conventional trolley-buses, not even like Shanghai's current trolley fleet, the Young-MAN "rechargeable electric buses". Even the new buses still resemble a trolley, overhead power is only for recharging the lithium ion batteries, the electric motor is driven by the batteries.


----------



## ode of bund

Last week tender manufacturers have brought their prototype buses to Shanghai to bid for the bus fleet contract for "Medium Capacity Transit"

Young-MAN JNP6183BEVW, Viseon design is already applied on Beijing BRT3, Shanghai's design will see doors on the left.





































Young-MAN 12 meter JNP6123BEVW










Sunwin SWB6188EV90 is also a tender model




























Yutong ZK6180BEVG1 and ZK6125BEVG1, the artic has a quite eye catching Shanghai skyline livery


----------



## CNGL

IIRC line 14 was originally planned to run directly below Yan'an Lu between Jing'an Si and Lujiazui. Strange that neither this corridor, nor the Gonghexin-Chengdu-Chongqing-Luban Lu one (the one having Nanbei Gaojia Lu, or North-South Elevated Road, running above it) have never been considered for rapid transit until now.


Ashis Mitra said:


> What type of those lines will be? Like present Translohr? or traditional steel wheel with overhead wire?


It appears they will be traditional trams. At least the two U/C lines in Songjiang will be so, as they will be served by Alstom Citadis.

And last but not least, Changqing Lu station on line 13 is set to open in October, effectively extending this line.


----------



## ddes

High time Yan'an Lu got something...I always found it weird that there are always Metro stations "nearby" but no Metro that runs along what appeared to be a very important artery.


----------



## dixiadetie

SSMEX said:


> My experience with the Shanghai Metro is that many lines are insanely crowded during commute hours. I've never looked up the headways until now but I noticed that there's there's only three lines with sub-3 minute headways and none have headways of less than 2:15. Is there any reason for this, even with ATO?
> 
> At 2:30 headways (which is all but one line), that's 24 trains per hour. The Victoria Line in London can run 36 trains per hour and the Lexington Ave line in NYC can do 53 trains per hour, although that's combining express and local service. For a system known for its insane crowding and rapid advancement, is there a reason why no line exceeds ~24 tph?


Because of the lack of trains , they could not upgrade the capacity of the line even the signal system allow 36 tph .
Therefore Shanghai Metro plan to buy lots of trains to meet the need .


----------



## SSMEX

dixiadetie said:


> Because of the lack of trains , they could not upgrade the capacity of the line even the signal system allow 36 tph .
> Therefore Shanghai Metro plan to buy lots of trains to meet the need .


All of those trainsets should've been delivered and entered service by now, right? Wikipedia indicates that only lines 6-13 (but not 12) have some level of ATO. Is the rest of the system equipped with CBTC / plans for ATO?


----------



## ddes

dixiadetie said:


> Because of the lack of trains , they could not upgrade the capacity of the line even the signal system allow 36 tph .
> Therefore Shanghai Metro plan to buy lots of trains to meet the need .


Nothing for Line 2? :bash:


----------



## ode of bund

ddes said:


> High time Yan'an Lu got something...I always found it weird that there are always Metro stations "nearby" but no Metro that runs along what appeared to be a very important artery.


Here is the route map


----------



## maginn

CNGL said:


> And last but not least, Changqing Lu station on line 13 is set to open in October, effectively extending this line.


Where did you get this information about Line 13?


----------



## Tågälskaren

Ashis Mitra said:


> I heard Shanghai is planning an 800 Km. tram network. Is it true? If yes it will be fantastic. Please give me some details about this.i.e tram map of the future system, and a description about the future network.


You have? It wouldn't astound me since it's Shanghai. 
Where did you hear this information?


----------



## saiho

Proposals on how to link Suzhou-Kunshan-Shanghai via subway revealed.
SHM Line 11 will be connected to SZM Line S1. S1 will start construction this year is scheduled to be completed in late 2020.










In addition SHM Line 17 and SZM Line 4 will meet halfway between Shanghai and Suzhou in the south.










Source


----------



## The Chemist

I can confirm that Line 15 is well and truly under construction. There's going to be a station right near my apartment , and there's road construction there now marked as utility relocation for Line 15. Further south in Minhang along Lianhua Road there's a lot of work going on at several of the station sites as well.


----------



## dixiadetie

*Intersection*

*Photoed by @赵特特爱轨交*

At dusk , an AC-18 7-car train came when an AC-07 train , near Pu Jiang Zhen Sta.(浦江镇站) of Line 8


----------



## robijn

CNGL said:


> And last but not least, Changqing Lu station on line 13 is set to open in October, effectively extending this line.


I think all new stations on line 13 will be opened in october. A sign at a construction area near Sunqiao shows that the station being built there would also be ready in october.


----------



## kunming tiger

saiho said:


> Proposals on how to link Suzhou-Kunshan-Shanghai via subway revealed.
> SHM Line 11 will be connected to SZM Line S1. S1 will start construction this year is scheduled to be completed in late 2020.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In addition SHM Line 17 and SZM Line 4 will meet halfway between Shanghai and Suzhou in the south.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source


So are we to assume that once SZ S1 line is completed in 2020 the two cities will be connected by metro?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Guys, what are the metro plans for the year 2016? Still some tiny openings or something big a la Chinese?


----------



## CNGL

No big openings for this year, only one station extensions: line 11 Kangxin Gonglu-Dishini (i.e. Disneyland, already open) and line 13 Shibo Dadao-Changqing Lu.


----------



## dixiadetie

*Colorful trains in Shanghai*

*photoed by @赵特特爱轨交*


----------



## FabriFlorence

^^ I love the tradition to color the train livery with the color of the line! I think it's typical of Asian metros. I saw it also in Tokyo and in Seoul.


----------



## dixiadetie

Yeah , the color of the train gives a clear symbol of which line it belongs to . But in some cities and some lines , the color of the line and train do not match .


----------



## metr0p0litain

I noticed that only line 16 uses third rails instead of overhead wires. Why? Will new lines also use third rails or will line 16 be an exception?


----------



## robijn

Silly_Walks said:


> ^^
> Yes.
> 
> Still think they should also extend the Maglev underground via Lijiazui, People's Square, somewhere on the Ring Line 4 (Zhongshan Park, perhaps?) to Hongqiao.


I've never understood that it stops at Longyang road. Why wasn't it built at Century Avenue? If you step out there, you see modern Shanghai. To achieve this now, there has to be a tunnel under Century Park lake. The Maglev coming out of the ground at the Science and Technology museum would be quite fitting.

It could go on into another tunnel and cross the Huangpu river, towards Shanghai railway station. This is practically a straight line. 

From there it could go on (still practically straight) towards Shanghai West railway station, where it has to bend to the south underground. This could be a 250km/h bend (3km radius) towards the crossing S20-G42. From there it can go south towards the airport, next to the outer ring road. Nearing the airport it needs to do some low speed bends through 1km radii, ending up next to the other railways.

All of this seems quite doable at this moment in time. This route is quite high-speed because most is quite straight. It would be possible to have different schedules, with some trains stopping at all stations, some only at the two airports. I would estimate the latter to take around 15 minutes, given the bends and the current duration of 7:20 to Longyang station.

I would be curious to know if this route has ever been investigated.


----------



## dimlys1994

Trolleybus route 71 testing in Shanghai:
https://www.facebook.com/wenchao.song.75


----------



## Woonsocket54

Newly built Exit 5 of Lines 3 and 4 at Shanghai Railway Station










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/..._of_L3,4_Shanghai_Railway_Station_Station.jpg

Songjiang South Railway Station metro station (Line 5)










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:20107_Metro_Songjiang_South_Railway_Station.jpg

Passageway between Lines 3/4 and Line 2 at Zhongshan Park Station










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:201701_Transferring_channel_at_Zhongshan_Park_Station.jpg

Zhongshan Park Station (Line 2 platform)










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:201701_Platform_for_L2_at_Zhongshan_Park_Station.jpg


----------



## CNGL

It appears fares are calculated on the shortest route avalaible, even if it implies a lot more transfers. I've glimpsed a pic of the map at Dishini (Disneyland) station, from which the fares to several stations on line 8 are as follows:
Up to Zhonghua Yishu Gong (China Art Museum): 5 yuan (renminbi)
Xizang Nanlu: 6 yuan
Lujiabang Lu: 5 yuan
Laoximen and points North: 6 yuan

Weird, no? Actually the shortest route from Dishini to Lujiabang Lu is line 11 to Luoshan Lu, line 16 to Longyang Lu, line 2 to Shiji Dadao (Century Avenue) and line 9, even if it's possible to do the trip with only one transfer (at Dongfang Tiyu Zhongxin a.k.a. Oriental Sports Center to line 8).


----------



## saiho

Progress of the renovation of People's Square, Shendu Highway and Zhangjiang Hi-Tech Park Stations.









New staggered escalators installed at Peoples Sq









new fare gates at Peoples Sq









New Exit at Shendu Highway









New escalator banks in Zhangjiang Hi-Tech Park


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## dimlys1994

And so, trolleybus route 71 is now opened:
https://www.facebook.com/wenchao.song.75


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## Woonsocket54

Bus in Shanghai











https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:J2A-010_at_M_Huaihai_Rd,_Sinan_Rd_(20170202135434).jpg


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## ode of bund

Shanghai does not want to call the new trolley line a BRT, but instead coin this new term called "Medium Capacity Transit".


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## dimlys1994

From Metro Report

http://www.metro-report.com/news/ne...-shanghai-metro-traction-equipment-order.html

*Alstom wins Shanghai metro traction equipment order*
07 Feb 2017










CHINA: Shanghai Shentong Metro Group Co has awarded Alstom a €17m contract to supply traction equipment, static inverters and train control monitoring systems for 64 metro that CRRC Nanjing Puzhen is supplying for Shanghai metro Line 2.

Alstom will supply its Onix traction equipment, which includes regenerative braking. The rolling stock will be used to extend 16 trainsets from four cars to eight in order to increase capacity as ridership grows.


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## hkskyline

Shanghai Metro by Sijie Bu, on Flickr


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## saiho

*Next round of Shanghai Metro Construction (2017-2025) includes 9 projects with a total cost of 213.8 billion RMB *

Projects include new subway lines such as 19, 20, 21, 22 and 23. In addition are western extensions of Lines 1 and 13. Lastly 2 commuter rail lines, one for connecting the two Airports and one for Chongming Island are to be constructed. Total length of all projects is 285 km with an average cost per km of 750 million RMB.

Source


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## kunming tiger

it should take the lenght of the system beyond 1000 kms?


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## hkskyline

saiho said:


> Progress of the renovation of People's Square, Shendu Highway and Zhangjiang Hi-Tech Park Stations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New staggered escalators installed at Peoples Sq
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> new fare gates at Peoples Sq
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Exit at Shendu Highway
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New escalator banks in Zhangjiang Hi-Tech Park


*Busy Metro station gets a makeover*
Shanghai Daily _Excerpt_
February 9, 2017 









_Workers put some final touches to Shanghai’s renovated People’s Square Metro Station as the major transfer station is set to open to passengers on Saturday. — Wang Rongjiang_

PEOPLE’S Square Metro Station is about to become more user-friendly.

From Saturday, people will find it more convenient and quicker at the city’s biggest transferring Metro Station as a result of more escalators and signs being installed.

Shendu Highway station on Line 8 and Zhangjiang Hi-tech Park station on Line 2 will also reopen — from today in both cases. (Zhangjiang Hi-tech Park station was originally scheduled to reopen from Saturday.)

Metro Lines 1 and 8 at People’s Square had suspended operations from January 17 because of the renovation project, during which trains on the lines did not stop at the station. Line 2, which shares the station, was not affected by the revamp.

Eight escalators have been added to the station — four to the hall of Line 1 and four to that of Line 8. Some staircases have been removed and some turnstiles changed.

“The adjustments are set up to increase evacuation efficiency of the station,” Huang Yufei, assistant director of the Metro station told Shanghai Daily. “It will also help to avoid conflicting flow of traffic on staircases as the escalators have a clearer guidance on direction.”

An elevator has also been set up in the hall in Metro Line 1 for the first time.

“Line 1 is the oldest line of the city,” Huang said. “Before, disabled passengers or people carrying large luggage would have to contact the station staffers and walk to a different place to use an elevator. With the new elevator installed in the hall, passengers can easily use the elevator themselves.”


----------



## saiho

A number of major changes happening to the Shanghai Metro.

To fulfill the government's goal of reducing headway in all downtown Lines to below 3 min is well underway now that the supplementary rolling stock is arriving. For example:

Line 1 will remove the short turn at Shanghai Railways station making the entire line to operate at 2 min and 44 sec headways 

Line 9 will expand from 46 6 car sets to 50 sets and min headways in the urban section were reduced from 3 mins to 2 min 30 secs.

Line 11 will expand from 66 6 car sets to 70 sets and min headways in the urban section were reduced to 2 min.

In terms of construction, this year the Light Metro for Line 8 South, Phase 3 Extension of Line 9 and Line 17 will open. This will add 55km of new metro to Shanghai bringing the length of the Shanghai Metro to 643 km and making it the first subway in the world to break 600km in length.

Source


----------



## kunming tiger

Most likely the first o break 700 km 800 km 900 km and so on...

It's only likely challenger is Beijing Metro.


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## FabriFlorence

kunming tiger said:


> Most likely the first o break 700 km 800 km 900 km and so on...
> 
> It's only likely challenger is Beijing Metro.


I think Seoul also.


----------



## tokyo-hypa

FabriFlorence said:


> I think Seoul also.


I think Seoul will take more time tbh


----------



## saiho

kunming tiger said:


> Most likely the first o break 700 km 800 km 900 km and so on...
> 
> It's only likely challenger is Beijing Metro.


Actually Beijing will the the first one to hit 900km and 1000km. Shanghai is only shooting for 850km by 2020. With Beijing gunning for 1000km for the same year. HOWEVER, I do belive Beijing's number does include the Pinghu and New Airport Lines which seem to be more like commuter rail lines. 



FabriFlorence said:


> I think Seoul also.


Seoul will take a long time...


----------



## dixiadetie

*Shanghai Line 1*

*Photoed by @赵梓淇OrangeJuice*

The track of line 1 from Yanchang Rd. to Hulan Rd. is under the highway.


----------



## Silly_Walks

saiho said:


> Line 1 will remove the short turn at Shanghai Railways station


What exactly does this mean? Will they change the alignment, and/or move the metro station?


----------



## CNGL

They are removing short services (those ending at Shanghai Huoche Zhan), and thus all line 1 trains will run all the way to Fujin Lu.


----------



## doc7austin

Some impressions from West Nanjing Road station (Line 2, Line 12, Line 13). Recently Line 12 and Line 13 stations were opened, however, there is no underground walkway to connect Line 2, Line 12, and Line 13 stations.

Maps of all three Metro Lines including exits:





















Direction signs at street level:





















Exit 1 (only for Line 2):












Exit 3 (only for Line 2):












Exit 8 (only for Line 13):












Exit 10 (only for Line 13):












Exit 11 (only for Line 13):












Exit 12 (only for Line 12):












Exit 14 (only for Line 12):












West Nanjing Road Station - Line 12:












Platform level - Line 12:







































Tunnel - Line 12:












Inside Shanghai Metro Line 12 train:












West Nanjing Road Station - Line 13:





















Platform level - Line 13:





















Railtrack - Line 13:





















Inside Shanghai Metro Line 13 train:





















West Nanjing Road Station - Line 2:






























Inside Shanghai Metro Line 2 train:












Here is the full video of the station and train experience:






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-ad064wv1E


Enjoy!


----------



## Silly_Walks

doc7austin said:


> Recently Line 12 and Line 13 stations were opened, however, there is no underground walkway to connect Line 2, Line 12, and Line 13 stations.


Are there plans to fix this?


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## CNGL

Recently? The three Nanjing Xilu stations have been there since the end of 2015, more than a year now. And I already watched the video eons ago, which includes extra footage from Hanzhong Lu (where direct transfer between lines 12 and 13 is avalaible) travelling from Nanjing Xilu L12 to Nanjing Xilu L13, and from Jing'an Si, Hongqiao Huoche Zhan and the Hongqiao Railway Station (n.b.: Pinyin name refers to the metro station, while the English one refers to the railway station) after leaving Nanjing Xilu L2.


----------



## doc7austin

Thank you for the input.
The pictures and video of West Nanjing Road was taken in early 2016.
I only had the chance to publish them here now (the video was published 2.5 weeks ago).


----------



## The Chemist

One thing I don't understand is why the Shanghai Metro insists on continuing to use the old style turnstile fare gates. No other city in China uses them, and they are such a pain, especially when travelling with luggage and/or small children.


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## saiho

On March 3, 2017 Shanghai Metro hit a ridership record 11.681 million. Here is the breakdown by line:

Line 1: 1.37 million
Line 2: 1.77 million
Line 3: 610,000
Line 4: 940,000
Line 5: 170,000
Line 6: 490,000
Line 7: 920,000
Line 8: 1.11 million
Line 9: 1.01 million
Line 10: 910,000
Line 11: 920,000
Line 12: 700,000
Line 13: 450,000
Line 16: 210,000

Sources

Line 9 will most likely break 1 million average riders when its eastern extension opens at the end of this year.


----------



## hkskyline

*Chongming’s Metro link coming soon*
March 10, 2017
Shanghai Daily _Excerpt_










CONSTRUCTION will begin on the Metro line linking Chongming Island with the city by the end of the year, the island’s district authority said yesterday.

The line will run from Pudong’s Jinqiao area to Chongming’s Chenjia Town.

It has been approved by the city government and is awaiting approval by the National Development and Reform Commission, Chongming District director Tang Hailong said yesterday.

The district authorities will build and upgrade roads to connect with the new line.

The line will have four stops — on Fuxing Island and three in Chenjia Town.

The main transport link for residents is the Yangtze River tunnel. But the trip can often take hours due to congestion, especially on public holidays.


----------



## dixiadetie

*Line 11*

*Photoed by @了了了I*

Huaqiao Sta. is the one of three stations in Kunshan city, Jiangsu province.



























Jichangdong Rd. is the only station on the ground level in Line11.









Shanghai Circuit Sta.


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## saiho

On March 17, 2017 Shanghai Metro again hit a ridership record of 11.79 million. This is contrasted by the record on March 3 of 11.559 million, an increase of 231,000 rides in less than a month. Here is the breakdown by line:

Line 1: 1.41 million
Line 2: 1.83 million
Line 3: 630,000
Line 4: 950,000
Line 5: 170,000
Line 6: 500,000
Line 7: 920,000
Line 8: 1.12 million
Line 9: 1.02 million
Line 10: 940,000
Line 11: 940,000
Line 12: 710,000
Line 13: 450,000
Line 16: 220,000










Source


----------



## z0rg

Those stats should be compelling enough for the local gov to speed up the construction of new lines within the inner ring road, many of them.


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## saiho

z0rg said:


> Those stats should be compelling enough for the local gov to speed up the construction of new lines within the inner ring road, many of them.



There are 2 more projects. Line 14 is U/C opening in 2020 and Line 19 will start construction next year. More to come.


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## Woonsocket54

Line 10 extension - Guofan Road









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:201704_Construction_of_L10_Extansion_Guofan_Road_Station.jpg


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## saiho

On April 28, 2017 Shanghai Metro hit a ridership record 11.867 million. Here is the breakdown by line:

Line 1: 1.43 million
Line 2: 1.85 million
Line 3: 640,000
Line 4: 950,000
Line 5: 170,000
Line 6: 490,000
Line 7: 900,000
Line 8: 1.12 million
Line 9: 1.01 million
Line 10: 960,000
Line 11: 960,000
Line 12: 710,000
Line 13: 450,000
Line 16: 230,000

Sources


----------



## dixiadetie

*Fifth kind of rolling stock of Line 1 arrived*

*Info collected by @上海轨道交通俱乐部. Pics from @地铁咸鱼qiqi090627 & 车辆分公司*

First of 11 new trian for Line1 , 0157 , arrived in Meilong basement on 5th May, At the width of 3 meters, this 8-car train made by CRRC Zhuzhou Electric Locomotive Co., Ltd. These 11 trains help line 1 to handle the growth of number of passengers .










10 features of this batch of trains: 
1.hire a well-known German design team for industrial design.(But I have no more info about this "design team")








2.The body use of metal paint, more fashion sense of science and technology; 



























3.Console using the original color of the countertops of wood. 









4.Train headlights from the original xenon lamp into LED lights.









5.The use of BS6853, DIN5510 fire safety standards, the end of the fire cut off the time increased to 45 minutes; 
6.The driver room to add auxiliary collision avoidance system;
7. The use of back-to-back passenger information display (dual screen); 









8. A car configuration increased to 6 camera; 

9. Equipment cabinet into L-type door switch;

10. Inside the wall by the new armrest, the floor surface with new wheelchair and children's cart logo.


----------



## hkskyline

*Signal tests for Line 9 extension*
May 10, 2017
Shanghai Daily _Excerpt_










THE east section of the third phase of Metro Line 9 took another step toward its completion yesterday.

Signal tests on running trains were started to prepare for the line’s operation by the end of the year, the city’s Metro operator said.

The 13.8-kilometer section has nine stations, including two transferring stations shared with lines 12 and 14.

Once the new section is connected, Line 9 will serve as an east-west artery stretching nearly 70km.

It will connect suburban Songjiang District to Caolu in the Pudong New Area.

The line extension will have stops at the city’s major business districts and several universities, including Xujiahui, Lujiazui, Century Avenue, Songjiang University Town and Shanghai Polytechnic University.

In addition to the Line 9 extension, Pujiang Line — formerly known as the third phase of Line 8 — and Line 17 are also expected to be put into operation by the end of this year.

Pujiang Line, at nearly 6.7km, will have six stations, all of them in suburban Pujiang Town of Minhang District. Residents can use the line to transfer to Line 8 to reach downtown.

Pujiang Line will run driverless trains, enabling it to cut interval times and increase capacity.


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## hkskyline

*Shanghai's rail mileage now ranks first in the world*
China Daily _Excerpt_
May 9, 2017

The length of Shanghai metro system is now the longest in the world, surpassing the size of networks in other world cities, including New York and Paris.

Shanghai Party Secretary Han Zheng said on Monday that infrastructure transportation within the city is now an important part of the development between urban and rural areas of Shanghai.

Han added that Shanghai strengthened its position as global port city, with the transport of containers leading the world the past 7 years. Freight transport out of Shanghai's main airports ranks the third in the world. Air passenger volumes have reached 100 million, which tops China.


----------



## SSMEX

hkskyline said:


> *Shanghai's rail mileage now ranks first in the world*
> China Daily _Excerpt_
> May 9, 2017
> 
> The length of Shanghai metro system is now the longest in the world, surpassing the size of networks in other world cities, including New York and Paris.


Comparisons like these are always a bit disingenuous because other cities rely on commuter rail systems to reach into the surrounding suburbs and neighboring small towns while Shanghai relies primarily on the metro system, with the exception of one (possibly more?) commuter rail lines.

Granted, many of these commuter rail systems aren't grade separated and aren't considered rapid transit, but to boast about a city's transit development advancement using its metro system length isn't fair when said city is missing the entire other form of transit (again, with small exceptions).


----------



## skyridgeline

SSMEX said:


> Comparisons like these are always a bit disingenuous because other cities rely on commuter rail systems to reach into the surrounding suburbs and neighboring small towns while Shanghai relies primarily on the metro system, with the exception of one (possibly more?) commuter rail lines.
> 
> Granted, many of these *commuter rail systems* aren't grade separated and aren't considered rapid transit, but to boast about a city's transit development advancement using its metro system length isn't fair when said city is missing the entire other form of transit (again, with small exceptions).


You can include Jiaxing (~100km), Suzhou (~100km) and Kunshan (~50km) as commuting sources/destinations for example. And there are ~225km/140 stations under construction (Shanghai "Metro").


----------



## hkskyline

SSMEX said:


> Comparisons like these are always a bit disingenuous because other cities rely on commuter rail systems to reach into the surrounding suburbs and neighboring small towns while Shanghai relies primarily on the metro system, with the exception of one (possibly more?) commuter rail lines.
> 
> Granted, many of these commuter rail systems aren't grade separated and aren't considered rapid transit, but to boast about a city's transit development advancement using its metro system length isn't fair when said city is missing the entire other form of transit (again, with small exceptions).


The concept of commuter rail vs. conventional subway/metro rail is not really distinguished in China.


----------



## SSMEX

skyridgeline said:


> You can include Jiaxing (~100km), Suzhou (~100km) and Kunshan (~50km) as commuting sources/destinations for example. And there are ~225km/140 stations under construction (Shanghai "Metro").


Those are impressive numbers and the pace of expansion is admirable, but to put things in perspective, the commuter rail system of NYC has Metro-North (~600km), Long Island Railroad (~500km), and NJ Transit (~1000km). Even commuter rail in the San Francisco Bay Area, which is notorious for its lack of rail infrastructure, has about 540km of route length between Caltrain, Capitol Corridor, and ACE.

Again, I realize this is an inherently flawed comparison, but so was the original article. Different cities have different implementations, and allocate transit categories differently. If you're going to compare route lengths between systems, you need to be mindful of the nuances. For example, Tokyo has inarguably the most rail transit, both in system length and installed capacity, of any city in the world, but its two subway systems only operate 300km of track, which is an extremely small fraction of the total rail network (2400km+).


----------



## saiho

SSMEX said:


> Those are impressive numbers and the pace of expansion is admirable, but to put things in perspective, the commuter rail system of NYC has Metro-North (~600km), Long Island Railroad (~500km), and NJ Transit (~1000km). Even commuter rail in the San Francisco Bay Area, which is notorious for its lack of rail infrastructure, has about 540km of route length between Caltrain, Capitol Corridor, and ACE.


To put things in perspective the NYC commuter rail system (NJT, LIRR and Metro North) carries less than 1 million passengers per _weekday_. SF's commuter system doesn't even go over 75,000 passengers per _weekday_. Lots of lines might look good on a map but if they are not high end infrastructure providing high quality service than throwing those in is not a bit disingenuous but flat out incorrect. By the logic of a couple of trains a day counting as good transit service means the Yangtze River Delta CRH intercity high speed rail network is now part of the Shanghai commuter rail web.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

saiho said:


> To put things in perspective the NYC commuter rail system (NJT, LIRR and Metro North) carries less than 1 million passengers per _weekday_. SF's commuter system doesn't even go over 75,000 passengers per _weekday_. Lots of lines might look good on a map but if they are not high end infrastructure providing high quality service than throwing those in is not a bit disingenuous but flat out incorrect. By the logic of a couple of trains a day counting as good transit service means the Yangtze River Delta CRH intercity high speed rail network is now part of the Shanghai commuter rail web.


Well lets not also forget SI railway and PATH trains. Altogether, NYC metro region rail length is approximately comparable to that of Tokyo. You do bring up a really good point about ridership though. I have been making the argument for years whenever people mention Shanghai as having the largest subway system in the world, that it pales in comparison to NYC in terms of route length if we were to blur the distinction between commuter rail and metro. However, Shanghai's ridership on 590 km of metro is greater (~10 million) than NYC's +2,000 km of rail transit (~6 million). Great point!

I do hope one day, Shanghai has commuter rail on par with that of Tokyo and NYC to supplement its metro. I don't think it's very feasible to take local trains from out in Kunshan. But a good commuter rail system with express service should change that. I wonder why Shanghai is so reluctant to build a commuter rail network. Other cities in China seem to be doing so, in particular, the Pearl River region, Beijing, Nanjing and even Changsha just built a really nice looking commuter rail line. What's the deal with Shanghai?


----------



## SSMEX

saiho said:


> To put things in perspective the NYC commuter rail system (NJT, LIRR and Metro North) carries less than 1 million passengers per _weekday_. SF's commuter system doesn't even go over 75,000 passengers per _weekday_.


A million passengers per day doesn't seem like a lot, but commuter rail is built for thin and long corridors. Using NJT numbers to approximate across the 1M trips (3.4B passenger km / 90M annual riders = 38 km per trip on average), the NYC commuter rail system delivers 38 million passenger-kms per weekday.

To put that in perspective, the NYC Subway has 6M passengers per weekday averaging about 8km per trip, for 48 million passenger-kms per day. In other words, commuter rail accounts for 44% of daily passenger-kms delivered in the city's rail transit system, which is nothing to sneeze at.



saiho said:


> Lots of lines might look good on a map but if they are not high end infrastructure providing high quality service than throwing those in is not a bit disingenuous but flat out incorrect. By the logic of a couple of trains a day counting as good transit service means the Yangtze River Delta CRH intercity high speed rail network is now part of the Shanghai commuter rail web.


The Altamont Corridor Express, which runs four trains per day per direction, has a daily ridership of about 5,000 people per day, which is drop in the bucket but actually quite significant when you consider that it's a one-way commuter train for people living in Stockton (pop: 300,000) to get to work in San Jose (140km away).

No argument from me that rail transit in the SF Bay Area is insufficient and underfunded, but my point is that commuter rail systems deliver a lot of value for commuters and to discredit them as infrequent services carrying a relatively small number of passengers betrays the outsized impact they have in moving people long distances during peak commute hours.


----------



## skyridgeline

SSMEX said:


> Those are impressive numbers and the pace of expansion is admirable, but to put *things in perspective*, the commuter rail system of NYC has Metro-North (~600km), Long Island Railroad (~500km), and NJ Transit (~1000km). Even commuter rail in the San Francisco Bay Area, which is notorious for its lack of rail infrastructure, has about 540km of route length between Caltrain, Capitol Corridor, and ACE.
> 
> Again, I realize this is an inherently flawed comparison, but so was the original article. Different cities have different implementations, and allocate transit categories differently. If you're going to compare route lengths between systems, you need to be mindful of the nuances. For example, Tokyo has inarguably the most rail transit, both in system length and installed capacity, of any city in the world, but its two subway systems only operate 300km of track, which is an extremely small fraction of the total rail network (2400km+).



150km radius ... 

Jinshan Railway (50km)
Suzhou Rail Transit 120km (+45km under construction)
Changzhou Metro 70 km under construction
Wuxi Metro 56km (+33km under construction) 
Hangzhou Metro 81km (+180km under construction)
Shanghai Metro 225km under construction 
Hangzhou 160km (2x) - high-speed and slow rail
Changzhou 170km (3x) - Shanghai–Nanjing Intercity High-Speed Railway, Beijing–Shanghai/Jinghu High-Speed Railway and slow rail
30km maglev

1167km (530km high-speed) "commuting"/other metro rails
588km Shanghai Metro
553km under construction in the area


Slow
Fast

http://chinatrain12306.com/travel/hangzhou.htm










Beijing–Shanghai/Jinghu High-Speed Railway
Shanghai–Nanjing Intercity High-Speed Railway

https://www.travelchinaguide.com/china-trains/high-speed/shanghai-suzhou.htm


----------



## saiho

SSMEX said:


> A million passengers per day doesn't seem like a lot, but commuter rail is built for thin and long corridors. Using NJT numbers to approximate across the 1M trips (3.4B passenger km / 90M annual riders = 38 km per trip on average), the NYC commuter rail system delivers 38 million passenger-kms per weekday.
> 
> To put that in perspective, the NYC Subway has 6M passengers per weekday averaging about 8km per trip, for 48 million passenger-kms per day. In other words, commuter rail accounts for 44% of daily passenger-kms delivered in the city's rail transit system, which is nothing to sneeze at.
> 
> The Altamont Corridor Express, which runs four trains per day per direction, has a daily ridership of about 5,000 people per day, which is drop in the bucket but actually quite significant when you consider that it's a one-way commuter train for people living in Stockton (pop: 300,000) to get to work in San Jose (140km away).
> 
> No argument from me that rail transit in the SF Bay Area is insufficient and underfunded, but my point is that commuter rail systems deliver a lot of value for commuters and to discredit them as infrequent services carrying a relatively small number of passengers betrays the outsized impact they have in moving people long distances during peak commute hours.


Commuter rail is for thin and long corridors hence directly comparing it with subways is incorrect. If you are going to bring in regional commuter rail then you can't discount the intercity HSR network around Shanghai. If we are going to be comparing importance and value then why not throw in the massive Shanghai bus network that has over a thousand routes and carries 10 million passengers per day? They deliver a lot of value for commuters and to discredit them as low infrastructure services betrays the outsized impact they have in moving people around the city. The article in question just said Shanghai leads the world on one well defined (but not absolute) criterion of transit, not "Shanghia's transit network is the best in the world." Side note, it mentions the creation of a 90 min commuter belt transit system with neighboring cities in the next 5 years. So I guess there is your commuter rail.



drunkenmunkey888 said:


> Well lets not also forget SI railway and PATH trains.


To be honest I would consider PATH and SI trains to be actual rapid transit.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

saiho said:


> Commuter rail is for thin and long corridors hence directly comparing it with subways is incorrect. If you are going to bring in regional commuter rail then you can't discount the intercity HSR network around Shanghai. If we are going to be comparing importance and value then why not throw in the massive Shanghai bus network that has over a thousand routes and carries 10 million passengers per day? They deliver a lot of value for commuters and to discredit them as low infrastructure services betrays the outsized impact they have in moving people around the city. The article in question just said Shanghai leads the world on one well defined (but not absolute) criterion of transit, not "Shanghia's transit network is the best in the world." Side note, it mentions the creation of a 90 min commuter belt transit system with neighboring cities in the next 5 years. So I guess there is your commuter rail.
> 
> 
> 
> To be honest I would consider PATH and SI trains to be actual rapid transit.


Agreed, PATH and SI are definitely real rapid transit but they're never counted in the NYC subway system because of different fare structure and disconnection with the rest of the network respectively.

The issue with counting the HSR network is whether it is feasible for use as a true commuter rail network from a fare structure perspective? Like can someone feasible live in Suzhou or Wuxi and commute to downtown Shanghai for work on a daily basis? I'm assuming it is feasible from a timing perspective, as I recall, it takes just under 30 minutes from Suzhou and little over 40 minutes from Wuxi. But are the fares feasible for daily commutes? It seems to cost around RMB 40 for a one way fare, equating to 80 RMB per day, which is roughly $12 a day. This translates to approximately $250-$300 a month, which is comparable to an unlimited monthly pass for zone 7 of the LIRR, or 40 miles from penn station at the farthest. However, purchasing power of those living in NYC suburbs I'm sure are much higher on average than those in Shanghai. Spending RMB 1,600 to 2,400 a month just on the commute alone seems out of reach for many commuters. Seems like the HSR wasn't priced for daily commuter use and much more for less frequent, mid-distance trips. Perhaps if they implemented a monthly pass that provides significant discounts over pay-per-ride, then it may be feasible to consider the HSR "commuter rail".

Also, the coverage is more consistent with that of a mid-long distance intercity rail than actual commuter rail. Commuter rail networks are generally denser but cover less area.


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## saiho

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> Agreed, PATH and SI are definitely real rapid transit but they're never counted in the NYC subway system because of different fare structure and disconnection with the rest of the network respectively.
> 
> The issue with counting the HSR network is whether it is feasible for use as a true commuter rail network from a fare structure perspective? Like can someone feasible live in Suzhou or Wuxi and commute to downtown Shanghai for work on a daily basis? I'm assuming it is feasible from a timing perspective, as I recall, it takes just under 30 minutes from Suzhou and little over 40 minutes from Wuxi. But are the fares feasible for daily commutes? It seems to cost around RMB 40 for a one way fare, equating to 80 RMB per day, which is roughly $12 a day. This translates to approximately $250-$300 a month, which is comparable to an unlimited monthly pass for zone 7 of the LIRR, or 40 miles from penn station at the farthest. However, purchasing power of those living in NYC suburbs I'm sure are much higher on average than those in Shanghai. Spending RMB 1,600 to 2,400 a month just on the commute alone seems out of reach for many commuters. Seems like the HSR wasn't priced for daily commuter use and much more for less frequent, mid-distance trips. Perhaps if they implemented a monthly pass that provides significant discounts over pay-per-ride, then it may be feasible to consider the HSR "commuter rail".
> 
> Also, the coverage is more consistent with that of a mid-long distance intercity rail than actual commuter rail. Commuter rail networks are generally denser but cover less area.


I know a commuter market exists between Suzhou/Kunshan into Shanghai. Kunshan to Shanghai fares range from 25 to 15 RMB. There are arrangements in some workplaces to work longer hours and only commute for 4 days of the 7 day in a week.


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## skyridgeline

From Jiaxing (does not have its own airport) to Shanghai Hongqiao Airport ...







Full-speed pass through @ 1:40 (hold on to your skirt :lol.


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## CNGL

After looking at a map I feel line 2 should have been built differently between Loushanguan Lu and Jing'ansi. Instead of hopping to Changning Road in between Tianshan Road and West Nanjing Road I would have built it along West Yan'an Road, with two intermediate stops: Kaixuan Lu (where Yan'an Xilu sits now, since line 2 was built first it would have got naming rights) and Jiangsu Lu (not where it is now but at the intersection of Jiangsu Road and West Yan'an Road). What is now Yan'an Xilu on lines 3 and 4 would be Kaixuan Lu, and there would be an extra stop on line 11 between Jiangsu Lu and Longde Lu, which would be Changning Lu. But the plans in the mid 90s were definitely different, as line 2 was built to Zhongshan Gongyuan and may have been planned to continue along Changning Road. This, of course, would have affected my "shanzhai" version, as it would make impossible a joke and a not-so coincidental alignment I have in the area.

BTW, I use different translations when referring to a thing or another. I render station names in pinyin (Renmin Guangchang), while streets and places get translated (People's Square).


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## saiho

*Line 17 begins dynamic and load testing.*


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## tjrgx

*China builds world's longest metro system in Shanghai*






Deep below ground level in Shanghai, workers on a flood-lit construction rig carefully install massive concrete wall sections for a new subway tunnel. Meter by meter, they are making the world's longest metro system even longer.

The future Line 14 is part of plans to extend the underground subway network in Shanghai by another 35 percent of its current size. By the time the project concludes in 2020, the network will span 830 kilometers. That's more than the distance from New York to Chicago.


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## zidar fr

Updated map of Shanghai metro:

- Wider layout
- Added all lines under construction 
- Added all ring roads to better reflect the urban landscape











Full resolution image:
http://www.inat.fr/metro/shanghai/


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## tjrgx

*Shanghai Metro: keeping world’s longest mass-transit rail system on track*

http://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-...29/shanghai-metro-keeping-worlds-longest-mass


















Shanghai Metro’s Line 14 under construction

Some respite from the intense summer heat can be found 18 metres below the scorching streets of Shanghai, but humidity remains energy sapping in the dark tunnels that are growing beneath Pudong. And yet, Yang Jun’s men keep drilling, and the huge tunnel-boring machine they operate advances 9.6 metres per day.

“We use concrete blocks to cover the walls of the tunnels as the ‘mole’ moves forward,” shouts Yang, trying to make himself heard above the din. “Each circle is made up of seven 1.2-metre-wide pieces and takes about 1.5 hours to complete. It’s a hard task.”

Yang is project manager of Shanghai Metro Line 14, the construction of which began this year ahead of an expected 2020 opening.

“This is the fifth line I’ve worked on in the past 12 years, and I’ve seen huge improvements in the construc*tion process,” he says. “Thanks to the latest technology, now we move faster and safer, although ground conditions are becoming increasingly challenging as we expand the metro network and dig deeper. Workers have eight-hour shifts, one day off a week.”









Line 14 project manager Yang Jun.Line 14 project manager Yang Jun.

A nearby worker is operating a crane by remote control, lifting one of the concrete blocks and then manually moving it into position. It’s a delicate operation. A few metres back, the driver of a small cargo locomotive is waiting as the tipper at the front of his vehicle is filled with soil being fed back in tubes from the boring machine. The rock and soil will be taken to Jinyue Road Station to be processed for reuse.

“Safety and environmental protection are our main con*cerns,” says Yang. “We need to make sure the tunnel is sealed and ground settlement doesn’t affect the buildings above.”

The city has already done what took others 100 years

Shao Weizhong, vice-president of Shentong Metro Group

Line 14 is one of five routes under construction in the main*land’s economic capital. It will add 38.5km and 32 stations to the world’s largest subway network, which already has 617km of track, enough to transport you from Hong Kong to Taiwan. By the end of this year, three more lines will have opened, taking the total to 18 (if you include the world’s fastest magnetic levitation line, with a top speed of 431km/h, connect*ing Pudong International Airport with Longyang Road station), adding 55km to the network.

But Shanghai won’t stop there.

“By 2020, the total length of operational lines will exceed 830km, and our goal is to reach 1,000km by 2030,” says Shao Weizhong, vice-president of Shentong Metro Group, the subway operator. That is almost five times as long as Hong Kong’s MTR, Airport Express and Light Rail lines combined.

And those extra kilometres do not come cheap.









A map of the Shanghai Metro.

“Each kilometre costs from 500 million yuan [HK$580 million] to 700 million yuan in the outskirts, where most lines lie above ground, and reaches 1.3 billion yuan in the city centre, where only lines three and four are elevated,” says Shao. “And costs keep increasing along with those of labour, materials and the relocation of families.”

Ticket prices haven’t increased accordingly; the cheapest is three yuan, the most expensive 11 yuan, and a day pass with unlimited travel costs 18 yuan. Shanghai Metro, therefore, runs at a loss.

“As a public service, it’s heavily subsidised,” says Shao.

Some 45 per cent of the budget for line construction is covered by the government, which also bears the cost of the interest on loans for the other 55 per cent.

“Commercial use of the metro – including advertising and shop revenues – accounts for only 20 per cent of our income. Our target is to be like Hong Kong, where income covers all operational costs,” says Shao.

Even though it’s still far from breaking even, the Shanghai network has become an example for the rest of China, where 41 cities are building subway lines, 26 of which are getting their first. State media has reported that the country will spend almost two trillion yuan in the current five-year plan to 2020, and, according to a report published by Economic Information Daily, the frenzy is about to get crazier.

Currently, only cities with a population of more than three million and annual revenue of more than 10 billion yuan can apply to build subways. But, as the newspaper points out, those figures may soon be halved.

“We won’t invest in other cities’ metro networks, but we will offer them our knowledge,” says Shao. And that knowledge comes on the back of some astonishing figures.

Average weekday traffic on the Shanghai Metro stands at 10.65 million individual trips, which makes it second only to Tokyo. Record traffic reached 11.8 million trips on April 28, a day in which four lines had more than a million passengers each. And Shao is certain that number will soon be surpassed.

More than 4,000 trains – triple the number running in 2005 – serve the network’s 367 stations and run with a punctuality rate of 99.82 per cent – similar to the 99.9 per cent achieved by Hong Kong’s MTR. Five thousand security staff and 30,000 CCTV cam*eras make the Shanghai network one of the safest in the world.

Its biggest accident to date happened in September 2011, when “a signal error followed by negligence and human error” allowed two trains to collide on Line 10 – which runs from the northeast of the city, through the centre to Hongqiao Airport, in the west – leaving almost 280 passengers injured. Three officials were fired and nine others penalised after an investigation into the incident.









The People’s Square station, on Line 2.

According to official data, the subway already accounts for 53 per cent of all the public transportation in this megalopolis of 24 million people. With a satisfaction rating of 87.4 per cent, it’s also well regarded.

Not that riding the rails during rush hour is likely to be a pleasant experience; doing so definitely gives meaning to the old saying “people mountain, people sea”. And the first impression the traveller is given is one of the worst.

The government imposes strict security controls at all stations. The airport-like screenings include compulsory X-rays of all bulky luggage and bags, as well as random checks of purses. Lengthy queues at station entrances and the network’s 700 checkpoints are the most criticised feature of the Shanghai Metro.

“People think we are looking for terrorists, but that’s some*thing intelligence services deal with,” says police officer Zhou Wei, who is in charge of subway security operations. “Our mission is to keep the metro free of hazardous materials, especially chemicals and explosives, because some people don’t know what is dangerous.We confiscated 63,000 dangerous items last year.”

There is no denying the checks are annoying; they channel passengers in a way that reduces the number of entrances to stations and creates tension between users and security per*son*nel. Zhou acknowledges that and points at future develop*ments: “We are considering different techno*logies – for example, body scanning arches – to avoid slowing down users. And we are also researching artificial intelligence, to add facial recognition to our security cameras, but I can’t give an implementation timeframe.”









Security checks at the Zhongshan Park station.

Officer Zhang carries out a different type of passenger screening at Zhongshan Park station, an inter*change between lines two and three. Using a digital device, he reads the chips in travellers’ identity cards.

“The machine is connected to our database, so we can see if passengers are wanted for some reason,” he explains. Even though he seems to choose his targets at random, there is a procedure. “First, we look for people who try to avoid us. Then we check those who wear clothes that either don’t match the weather or their appearance, especially those with coats on in the summer or with formal attire but an otherwise shabby look.”

It sounds like an espionage B-movie approach, but it appears to work, though the hit rate is low.

“Since 2016 and until July 2017, we have checked the iden*tity of 17.1 million people and caught 404 fugitives,” says Zhou.

Overseeing the network are staff at the Central Operations Command Centre (COCC). Here, a huge screen displays the situation along all 14 metro lines in real time and footage from any given surveillance camera can be viewed. It’s almost 3pm when we visit, and the day’s network ridership total stands at 5.7 million. All trains are running on schedule and the four men scrutinising the computer screens look relaxed. But not enough to lounge on one of the room’s sofas.









Li Yingfeng, a spokesman for the Central Operations Command Centre.

“We have been using the Communication Based Train Control System since the opening of Line 6 [in December 2007], and we are working to upgrade older lines to stand*ardise all,” explains COCC spokesman Li Yingfeng. “Any emergency will immediately show in our systems. Each sector has its own control room, which will deal with an incident in the first instance. If it is deemed serious, we will take over and draw a plan accordingly.”

For example, if a passenger pulls the emergency brake, the driver will first report to the line’s control room, which can dispatch emergency services while the COCC monitors the situation.

“Our response times are among the fastest in the world,” Li says, proudly.

As the clock ticks towards the afternoon rush hour, the COCC screens start to show increasing crowds. At 5.30pm, there is a flood of humanity and many passengers have to wait for a couple of trains to depart until they are able to board one. This is the time when most sexual harassment occurs.

According to a 2012 survey, 13.6 per cent of China’s female subway passengers have suffered some kind of sexual abuse. A year later, a study found that 38 per cent of respondents considered the metro the second worst place for harassment, after buses (44 per cent).

In response, subway operators in Guangdong province decided to add priority carriages for women, although not women-only cars. In Shenzhen, the restriction applies through*out the day while in Guangzhou it is applicable only during rush hour. Shanghai is not planning to follow suit.









Sexual harassment is a problem on the metro.

“A few years ago, we travelled to Japan because we con*sider*ed implementing their cars-for-women system,” recalls Shao. “But we found three reasons not to do so. First, the over*whelming volume of passengers renders the scheme imprac*ti*cal. It would disrupt operations, dragging down efficiency. Second, we considered taking this measure only during rush hour, but we have no way to enforce it and we don’t see a real need for it. Finally, we thought it would be better to strengthen our cooperation with the police and promote awareness among women.”

In 2012, Shentong Metro made waves when it published a photo of a woman in a see-through dress waiting for the subway. “It’s no wonder that some people get harassed if they dress like this,” the company captioned the picture on its Weibo account. “Pay attention to how you dress. Cherish yourselves,” it added, in a message that sparked intense public debate.

Why are ‘women priority’ carriages on China’s subway being overrun by men?


“The cases of some perverts caught on camera have been widely publicised, but they are just nasty exceptions,” says Hu Yuan, a young female subway user. “Even though riding the metro at peak hours is extremely uncomfortable, I feel safe in it. I think it’s one of the things that work best in Shanghai.”

Twenty-eight thousand people work to make Shanghai Metro safe and reliable. Most, though, are never seen by the public and many are busy working when most users are tucked up in bed.

“Rush hour here starts at 11pm, and by midnight the place will be full,” says Tang Jinrong, a mechanic at the Line 8 garage, while checking rolling stock. In this facility, 40 trains must be thoroughly inspected within six hours.









Garages at the end of Line 8, near Shendu Highway station.

“Each takes around half an hour. We check the wheels’ temp*erature, the position of the screws and many other critical areas,” Tang explains, as he walks along the lowest of the three gantries that are used to help workers examine the trains. A colleague does the same on the upper gantry, checking the roof.

“Technology has changed a lot, so we can now do many checks remotely,” says Qi Bin, one of the men supervising the process. Trains pass beneath a newly installed arch. “It takes photos of all the pantographs that connect to the overhead electricity supply lines. The images are instantly sent to our control room, where staff can see if there is any anomaly. That saves a lot of time.”

The garage is also full of high-definition cameras that engineers can use to zoom in on specific components. “There are some places we can’t see because pillars create blind spots, but it helps to double check mechanics’ work,” says Qi.

Three types of train are currently in use on Line 8, which runs from the northeast of Shanghai, through the centre and down to the south. The oldest were made by French manu*facturer Alstom, then Japan’s Hitachi was contracted. The latest additions are Chinese made, by CRRC, a corporation that also provides metro rolling stock to Hong Kong and cities in Thailand, Iran, Brazil and Argentina.

Fei Chaoxia drives a CRRC train. We travel with him along Line 3, which runs from the north and skirts the western side of the city centre, but he is not allowed to speak. He needs to concentrate on the signals. Every now and then, Fei raises his arm and acknowledges a traffic light. At every station, he needs to get out, make sure that all passengers are aboard and signal again before setting off.









Tang Jinrong inspects a train in the Line 8 garages.

Also in the cabin is a shy novice, who may soon be driving a train in some eastern city.

“Shanghai is one of the main training bases in the country,” explains Xia Zhiyi, who is in charge of Line 3’s 300 drivers and is also with us in the cab. “Here, drivers have to take a three-month-long theory course and spend another six months of practice before they can take the final exam for the job. If they pass, they still need to complete another half year of practice at their final post.

“The pay is similar to that of bus and taxi drivers, but the duties are more intense. Drivers complete eight-hour shifts and can rest for only 10 minutes when they reach the end of their line, which may take close to two hours. There is a half-hour break for lunch. Those on the night shift will end their working day in the small hours, so they will have to sleep in accommo*dation provided by the company. The first shift starts at 5am.”

It’s a job better suited to men, says driver Fei, breaking his silence. “Less than 20 per cent of all Shanghai Metro drivers are female,” he says. “I believe men not only endure better, they are also more capable of solving emergency situations.”

Xia is quick to intervene, adding, “But we accept every candi*date as long as he or she can pass the tests.”

Men also predominate in the maintenance teams. The toughest are in the track repair and conditioning department. We find a maintenance team along the open-air section of Line 8 near Lianhang Road station, at 5pm, when the temperature still lingers close to 40 degrees Celsius. Soaked in sweat and using surprisingly rudimentary tools, they check that the width and length of tracks haven’t changed; make sure that all screws and moving parts are intact and in working order; and comb the crushed stones between the rails.









Driver Fei Chaoxia (right) and an intern operate a train on Line 3.

“It takes one whole year to cover all the lines,” says Wu Xiaoyin, head of one of the teams.

Not far away, other technicians oversee another critical element of the metro: the transformer substations. The system is almost fully automatic and trackside monitoring rooms are air-conditioned and comfortable. Wang Bin and Qian Xiaofeng keep an eye on two stations, a 400 kVA installation for metro offices and one of 1,500 kVA that supplies electricity to Line 8 trains.

“We need to make sure that any fault is repaired fast and doesn’t spread along the line,” explains Wang. “Our biggest concern are objects touching the electrified cables, mostly clothes blown away from residential buildings by the wind and helium balloons,” he adds with a smile. “Fortunately, we’ve had no big incidents.”

It’s been only 24 years since Shanghai opened its first sub*way line. But, as Shao points out, “the city has already done what took others 100 years”. London achieved the engineering feat of building its first underground train line 154 years ago, but times have changed and the world’s most spectacular infrastructure achievements now belong to China.

The upcoming Line 14 is another example.

“It will cross five of Shanghai’s most populated districts and boast 16 interchange stations, which will be the city’s record,” says general engineer Zhou Xisheng. “Some will be 36 metres below the surface, and the one at Yuanshen Road will boast three levels: B1 for cars [a tunnel passing beneath the Huangpu River], B2 for ticket offices and B3 for tracks.”









Qian Xiaofeng flips a substation switch while colleague Wang Bin looks on.

That station is also the first to have been built under a temporary roof.

“This system is notably more expensive but reduces noise and dust – something people are more concerned about nowa*days because of high pollution levels – and it enables work to continue in harsh weather conditions, like the summer heat, the winter cold and rain,” says Zhou.

Complaints from forced evictions and relocations have also dramatically decreased in recent years.

“We have learned from past mistakes and we plan the future development of the net*work much more carefully,” says Shao. “We understand it can’t be a burden to the residents, so the standards for relocation and compensation have been raised a lot. The process now takes a third of the total budget for building new metro lines. District governments have different rules, but one can’t be changed: people have to be moved to a place with a metro station nearby.”

The biggest challenge now is to have Shanghai’s subway network break even.

“We have different business development plans, which have been inspired both by Japan and Hong Kong,” says Shao. “We are trying to increase advertising revenue – including from tunnel screens that feature ads while the metro is moving – and we also want to attract higher quality retail and services companies to our commercial spaces.

“But we can’t forget that we run a public service, and that ticket prices have to remain affordable to all.”


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## tjrgx

*Shanghai’s Subway Looks to New York, but Not for Everything*

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/11/business/new-york-shanghai-metro-subway.html

SHANGHAI — New York commuters suffer regular delays. Aging tracks at Penn Station are being rebuilt after a series of derailments. The entire subway system is operating under a state of emergency.

Halfway around the world, China is rushing to build new subway systems. Here in Shanghai, three new lines are being extended this year. Trains are nearly always on time.

Chinese officials are quick to say that New York has a model public transport network, albeit one they aspire to emulate more closely in some respects than others.

While the New York system is aging, it still shows the soaring ambition of its original creators in its bold design — express tunnels and stations bring together up to a dozen lines. Shanghai’s is clean, efficient and constantly expanding. But its development also reflects a preoccupation with managing vast crowds and avoiding stampedes, which results in a layout that can make trips longer.

On Time, or All The Time?

Fares on Shanghai’s subway are 3 to 4 renminbi, or 45 to 60 cents, for all but the longest journeys. To the extent that wages in the Chinese city are about a sixth that of New York, they roughly compare to the $2.75 fares in New York.

But the similarities largely end there.

New York’s subway struggles with chronic delays, partly because of mechanical breakdowns but also because of debris on the tracks and even people falling off platforms. The city has begun an intensive campaign of cleaning tracks of debris, to reduce the frequency of fires. Only two lines — the Lexington Avenue subway and the Queens Boulevard line — are able to offer trains every two minutes, and other lines can be much slower. Much of New York’s signal and switch equipment was installed before World War II.

By contrast, Shanghai’s trains are not only frequent but also dependable. The city’s subway claims to have an on-time rate of 99.8 percent. People or trash seldom fall on the tracks: thick, clear barriers of reinforced glass separate the platforms from the tracks, with sliding doors that open only when a train is in the station. Trains run every two minutes on the busiest lines, and almost as frequently on the other lines.

New York does have its advantages — particularly for night owls.

Subway systems in Shanghai, and across China, shut down every evening. Only in the last few months has Shanghai even extended the closing time for its most heavily used lines to midnight, while other routes still close as early as 10:30 p.m.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority takes pride in keeping all 472 of its stations open 24 hours a day.

It is able to do so because of the foresight of its builders more than a century ago, said Shao Weizhong, the Shanghai Metro vice president overseeing the system’s operations and management center. The New York system was built with express train tunnels in addition to local train tunnels. So subway cars can take turns during the night running through the local tunnels and the express tunnels, with maintenance conducted on whichever tunnel is not in use.

Shanghai’s subway system, like most such networks around the world, does not have separate local and express tunnels, so the entire system has to stop every night for maintenance. But the system’s newest and most technologically advanced line, Line 14, which is scheduled to open in 2020, will have parallel tracks along at least part of it for ease of maintenance, Mr. Shao said. He added that no decision had been made yet on whether to extend its hours of service.

Workers and Machines

What really separates the Shanghai subway, and those of other Chinese cities, from many Western counterparts is the speed of construction.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority has used six giant tunnel-boring machines in recent years across the subway network. Shanghai has 60 such devices working on just one of the many new lines it is building or extending.

“Our working progress is faster than in Western countries — maybe we only take one or two years to finish” a task, said Zhou Xisheng, a 49-year-old deputy chief engineer for Shanghai Metro. “However, in foreign countries, it may take five to ten years.”

Shanghai does not just have more equipment, it also has cheaper labor. Heavy equipment operators earn about $1,000 a month here, a small fraction of what comparable workers earn in New York.

The overall effect is striking: China has completed more miles of subways than the rest of the world in each of the last two years, according to the Brussels-based International Association of Public Transport.

To be fair, a simple count of tunnel-boring machines and laborers is not enough to compare the challenges each city faces in building subway lines.

For starters, not all of New York’s subway construction even uses tunnel-boring machines: Some of it is done by cutting a very deep trench in the ground, laying the new line and then covering it.

A bigger difference is that New York has to cut through solid rock to make new tunnels, while Shanghai is digging through relatively soft, solidified mud left by rivers winding across the Yangtze River delta for millions of years. (But that mud creates another hazard that is less of a worry in New York’s firm bedrock: making sure that the roofs of Shanghai’s subway tunnels do not sag or leak water.)

Squares and Diagonals

Shanghai’s subway may carry nearly twice as many people as New York’s, even though it has a quarter fewer stations. But on a day-to-day basis, the biggest difference between the two networks lies in the complexity of each city’s stations.

The sprawling Times Square station, for example, and its 42nd Street extension have 12 lines, although a few of them share tracks. Across New York’s subway map, no line is rigidly straight throughout.

Shanghai, on the other hand, has a subway map that looks more like a rectangular grid — lines run north to south, and east to west, with few exceptions. As a result, most transfer stations involve just two lines, a few have three lines and only one station in the entire network has four.

The lack of “diagonal” lines means that journeys tend to be slightly longer and often involve a transfer — riders in effect go around a square to reach a destination, and have to change trains at the corners.

Line 14, the newest addition to Shanghai’s network, is a notable exception. It will run diagonally along part of its route when it finally opens.

But faced with a city with three times the population of New York, and fearful of overcrowding, Shanghai subway officials say that they prefer the simplicity.

“We try to avoid four-line hubs,” said Li Yingfeng, the chief of the Shanghai subway’s operation management center, “because we have a much higher ridership than the New York City system.”


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## Ashis Mitra

Could anyone post here a map of _first generation tramway system in Shanghai,_ which was closed in seventies? Because I could not find any such anywhere.


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## Silly_Walks

^^

Literally the first result on google image search:









Which led me to:









and:









source: http://www.virtualshanghai.net/Maps/Collection


Do you not have Google at your house?


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## Ashis Mitra

The first map is best, but* there is no names of termini and depots*, could anybody say about those names, following the route numbers based on that map?

Thankfully Shanghai has done the correction almost after 40 years by returning tram in city. The new tram is much different than old tram. The old tram network was single coach or double coach separated, high floor, opened window, trolley-pole, steel wheel, noisy, and slow, but much expanded and served many parts of the entire city. The new tram is five coach articulated, low floor, air-conditioned, panto-graph, rubber tyre, calm and fast, but only one route. 

The new tram route is completely different from the old tram route, because the new system serves such places which were very much decongested, even village like area around 50s and 60s, so there were no need for trams, but today it is a very important place for information technology.


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## Ashis Mitra

After reading many websites I’ve recently saw some matters, which arise some questions and curiosity. I’m asking these because I want to compare the Shanghai Tram with my city’s Kolkata Tram. Although the main difference is that Shanghai tram has closed its original network at seventies, whereas Kolkata tram has is continuing its journey, overcoming that notorious anti-tram sixties, although some routes has closed. Here I’m writing—

Note - *I have not find any answers of the following questions in any website till now, so I am asking.*

1) I heard in future tram will be expanded vastly like today’s metro, and it will create an 800Km network (just unbelievable, but not impossible in Shanghai and China!). Is it true? If yes, please write some details about the future planning, and if possible, give me some English maps and English websites about the future extensions.

2) I heard about an extension of the current network. The next phase of the project is the Zhangjiang tram division multiple-phase construction, a project in the east Greenfield Road, from Zu Chong Zhi Road (Shanghai Metro Line 2 Zhangjiang Hi-tech station), west to Osmanthus Road Autumn Road, which covers a distance of about 10 km, with a total of 15 stops, 1 depot. It will be followed by an extension in the direction of Tang Zhen-Qing. Could anyone show it details with map?

3) Is there any tram conductor inside tramcars for ticketing? Or tickets should be bought before boarding the tram from tram stations?

4) What kind of ticket they used in tram—simple paper ticket or electronic card?

5) Are other motor vehicles allowed on track? I saw the network is completely street running and unreserved, so I’m asking this.

6) Are all stops as tram stations? Or there are some single unreserved street surface stops?

7) Does the entire route is middle of the road ? Or sometimes on left or right side?

8) Is there any special seats for children, ladies, senior citizens and handicapped persons inside the tram cars ?

9) Is there any system for monthly tickets and all-day tickets for tram routes?


----------



## CNGL

1) I swear I've already answered this before. It was announced so, but they are disclosing the plans step by step. The first two lines of Songjiang tram are U/C if not under testing, and are expected to open soon. I've also seen plans for the area beyond Hongqiao airport and station, and for Jiading, as well as the Bund tram line. Here's a map of the Songjiang tram (a traditional tram, BTW):


2) What? I don't know about any planned extension of the Zhangjiang line. It may as well be fake, much like four additional metro lines I found recently. Also, it seems you are using a translator (like I do) as you have mentioned several non-existent roads such as "Osmanthus Road" which would be Guihua Road (In this case it's 桂花 as opposed to 规划 which I've encountered so many times I already know it means "planning"), but that is to the South, not West, of Zhangjiang Gaoke.

As for questions 5, 6 and 7, you can also check Baidu Street View. Here the Baidu car is running right on the (rubber-tyred) tram track, so that answers question number 5. It also appears all stops are tram stations (however I still call them stops as no buildings are in sight) on the middle of the roads.


----------



## teddybear

^Beautiful artwork on the signs!


----------



## dbhaskar

*Shanghai Metro Line 17*






Beautiful artwork and station design.


----------



## Woonsocket54

*Line 17*








































































































































source: http://idyllicmetropolis.blogspot.com/2017/12/weekly-report-10.html


----------



## Zaz965

^^
third rail instead of overhead wires? :?


----------



## Woonsocket54

Line 17 and northeast extension of Line 9 are to open 2017.12.30

http://idyllicmetropolis.blogspot.com/2017/12/blog-post_27.html


----------



## saiho

Zaz965 said:


> ^^
> third rail instead of overhead wires? :?


FYI



saiho said:


> Posted 1 year ago...
> 
> 
> 
> saiho said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> metr0p0litain said:
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that only line 16 uses third rails instead of overhead wires. Why? Will new lines also use third rails or will line 16 be an exception?
> 
> 
> 
> They wanted to reduce the visual impact of the mostly elevated line. Line 17 which is also mostly elevated will use 3rd rail too. But other lines such as Line 14,15 and 18 which are underground will use overhead lines.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## CNGL

The longest metro network in the world gets even longer! Shanghai is opening a new line and a new extension. They are as follows:
Line 9 East, Yanggao Zhonglu to Caolu, adding 9 stations and 14.1 km for a total length of 65.8 and 35 stations. An extra station at the Caolu railway station is planned.
Line 17, Hongqiao Huochezhan (i.e. Hongqiao HSR station) to Dongfang Lvzhou, 35.3 km, 13 stations. Bringing metro service to Qingpu District. This was previously named Line 2 West, Qingpu line, and line 20. Oriental Land (which is what they render Dongfang Lvzhou in English) actually isn't further from Dishui Hu than Huaqiao. I also find paradoxical that _Oriental_ land is the Westernmost stop in Shanghai metro.

These two openings brings the price to become the longest metro in the World to 654 km (the length Shanghai metro has now). Pujiang line (formerly called line 8 South) is opening sometime in 2018.


----------



## Woonsocket54

One of the line 17 stations has PSDs that are separated by walls that are not made of glass. This is somewhat similar to St Petersburg metro, although in St Petersburg the PSDs themselves are made of steel and not glass.










http://www.shmetro.com/node49/201712/con115013.htm


----------



## Woonsocket54

*Line 17*

Upon further research, it appears the alcoves between the PSDs contain decorative vases. This is a really cool design element and possibly unique for China.

Here is Zhuguang Road station:









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:20171230诸光路站站台.jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:20171230诸光路站屏蔽门.jpg

A description from English Wikipedia:



> The station is known for its design elements. An 88-metre (289 ft) long wall painting fills the entire platform length. Although an underground station, sunshine flows easily to the platform level via a panoramic sunroof, which covers the entire ceiling. The single island platform is 23 metres (75 ft) wide, and unlike other island platforms, there are no support columns along the middle of the platform. These columns were instead placed between the platform and the tracks, also serving as pilasters for the platform screen doors.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhuguang_Road_Station

Zhaoxiang Station is elevated and has simple-looking PSD:









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:20171230赵巷站站台.jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Westbound_platform_of_Zhaoxiang_Station_(20171230111642).jpg

Panlong Road station









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Platform_of_Panlong_Road_Station_(20171230110317).jpg

Middle Jiasong Road Station









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Middle_Jiasong_Road_Station_(20171230123130).jpg

Qingpu Xincheng Station









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Platform_of_Qingpu_Xincheng_Station_(20171230121242).jpg

Oriental Land Station









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Platform_of_Oriental_Land_Station_(20171230114821).jpg


----------



## Woonsocket54

More photos of beautiful Line 17 Zhuguang Road station. I just can't get enough of this station. Whoever decided to let natural light into the station and to fill it with art deserves an award.









http://www.sohu.com/a/208885307_347555









http://www.sohu.com/a/208885307_347555









http://www.sohu.com/a/208885307_347555









http://www.sohu.com/a/208885307_347555









http://www.sohu.com/a/208885307_347555









http://www.sohu.com/a/208885307_347555









http://www.sohu.com/a/211669961_391501









http://www.sohu.com/a/211669961_391501









http://www.sohu.com/a/211669961_391501









http://www.sohu.com/a/211669961_391501









http://www.sohu.com/a/211669961_391501









http://www.sohu.com/a/211669961_391501


----------



## Woonsocket54

Another new thing today - at Hongqiao Airport T2 station, a middle platform has opened allowing cross-platform transfer between Lines 2 and 10. 

For eastbound trains, doors will open on both sides of the train.










http://newsxmwb.xinmin.cn/chengsh/2017/12/27/ls/31345883.html?1514342471297


----------



## jserradell

@CNGL: 
Do you include Jinshan Line in your figures? With the Jinshan line my figures are: 688,54 km, and without the Jinshan LIne: 632.14 km
By the way, my numbers for Beijing are: 593 km


----------



## CNGL

I don't include the Jinshan railway as it is that, a railway. However there is still a 22 km discrepance between your 632 km figure and my 654 km figure, I don't know where it could be. English Wikipedia gives a figure of 666 km :devil:, yet another 12 km difference. I suspect all three figures (at least mine and Wikipedia) don't include the Maglev. Note that I don't have my maps avalaible now, I have to transfer them from my old computer, so the 654 km figure is provisional. However, your Beijing figure is close to my (provisional) figure of 594 km. Wikipedia lists it at 608 km, however it includes the Xijiao tram line, which I don't count.


----------



## Zaz965

over 600km :drool::drool:


----------



## z0rg

I guess Shanghai will announce lines 26-30 within 2 or 3 years.


----------



## jserradell

The data I use for Shanghai are:
1-36.4, 2-63.8, 3-40.3, 4-33.7, 5-17.2, 6-32.3, 7-44.2, 8-37.4, 9-64.2, 10-35.4, 11-82.4, 12-40.4, 13-22, 16-59, 17-35.34

If we add all these numbers, and if we subtract *12* km shared for lines 3 and 4, then the result is: 632,14km. 

The number for Line 9 in wikipedia (in English) is: 77,6km, but in Chinese is 64,4 and in urbanrail is: 63,8 --> 64km. So I take the Chinese/urbanrail data.

In the chinese wikipedia the total is: 637km, closer to my figure than the English wikipedia figure...

I do not count the Jinshan Line nor the Maglev Line...
I really think that the 666km figure is wrong. 
What do you think?


----------



## CNGL

Well, the English Wikipedia contradicts itself: The Shanghai metro article lists line 9 as 77.6 km long, however the line 9 article lists it as 63.8 km. Anyway they have lowered the total length to 645.7 km, so I definitely need to revise downward my 654 km figure.

Edit: Wow, somehow I added 17 km to line 17 out of nowhere -_-. So my revised figure is 637 km, which matches that of both Baike Baidu and Chinese Wikipedia.


----------



## The Chemist

CNGL said:


> The longest metro network in the world gets even longer! Shanghai is opening a new line and a new extension. They are as follows:
> Line 9 East, Yanggao Zhonglu to Caolu, adding 9 stations and 14.1 km for a total length of 65.8 and 35 stations. An extra station at the Caolu railway station is planned.
> Line 17, Hongqiao Huochezhan (i.e. Hongqiao HSR station) to Dongfang Lvzhou, 35.3 km, 13 stations. Bringing metro service to Qingpu District. This was previously named Line 2 West, Qingpu line, and line 20. Oriental Land (which is what they render Dongfang Lvzhou in English) actually isn't further from Dishui Hu than Huaqiao. I also find paradoxical that _Oriental_ land is the Westernmost stop in Shanghai metro.
> 
> These two openings brings the price to become the longest metro in the World to 654 km (the length Shanghai metro has now). Pujiang line (formerly called line 8 South) is opening sometime in 2018.


Based on the maps now installed in the stations, the southern extension of Line 5 (Dongchuan Rd - Nanqiao Xincheng), the northern extension of Line 10 (Xinjiangwancheng - Jilong Rd), and the eastern extension of Line 13 (Shibo Ave - Zhangjiang Rd) will also open sometime this year, as all three are now shown on the maps.


----------



## Woonsocket54

*Stations on newly extended Line 9*

*Fangdian Road Station*









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fangdianluzhantai.jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fangdianluzhanting.jpg

*Lantian Road Station*









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lantianluzhanting.jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lantianluzhantai.jpg

transfer to line 14 (not yet open):








https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lantianlu14yuliu.jpg

*Taierzhuang Road Station*









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:TEZLZBZT.jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:TEZLZNZT.jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:TEZLZT.jpg

*Jinqiao Station*









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:JQSJZT.jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:JQZT.jpg


----------



## CNGL

So they have renamed several stations:
Biyun Lu => Lantian Lu
Pingdu Lu => Tairzhuang Lu (n.b.: used the _erhua_ clause of Pinyin)
Shenjiang Lu => Jinji Lu


----------



## General Huo




----------



## Kintoy

Shanghai Line 2 Nanjing East Stn


----------



## CNGL

Some fresh news: Pujiang line is opening on March 31 (with official source to boot , in Chinese of course). At first planned as a line 8 extension to Huizhen Lu, this is an automated, rubber-tyred/tired line separate from that undersized line. Also on the same day, Shendu Gonglu is changing its name (again!) to Pujiang Jiaoye Gongyuan, I wonder if when they finally build the aerospace museum they'll rename the station yet another time back to its original name of Hangtian Bowuguan...

BTW, about lengths. Shanghai metro currently stands at 637 km, the devilish 666 km figure :devil: is with the Maglev included. It is growing to 644 km (without the Maglev) on Saturday.


----------



## Ghostpoet

CNGL said:


> Some fresh news: Pujiang line is opening on March 31 (with official source to boot , in Chinese of course).


Was it opened today?

Ghostpoet


----------



## Woonsocket54

Ghostpoet said:


> Was it opened today?
> 
> Ghostpoet


Looks like it was (and the railfan window is quite popular)









http://photo.eastday.com/2018slideshow/20180331_6/index_K26672.html









http://photo.eastday.com/2018slideshow/20180331_6/index_K26672.html









http://photo.eastday.com/2018slideshow/20180331_6/index_K26672.html









http://photo.eastday.com/2018slideshow/20180331_6/index_K26672.html









http://photo.eastday.com/2018slideshow/20180331_6/index_K26672.html









http://photo.eastday.com/2018slideshow/20180331_6/index_K26672.html









http://photo.eastday.com/2018slideshow/20180331_6/index_K26672.html









http://photo.eastday.com/2018slideshow/20180331_6/index_K26672.html









http://photo.eastday.com/2018slideshow/20180331_6/index_K26672.html









http://photo.eastday.com/2018slideshow/20180331_6/index_K26672.html









http://photo.eastday.com/2018slideshow/20180331_6/index_K26672.html









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521









http://www.sohu.com/a/226884700_249521


----------



## Silly_Walks

Rubber-tired nonsense.


----------



## dbhaskar

*APM Pujiang Line Time Lapsed POV*

Xinhua News Live Video:






APM starts moving at 5:15 min. Shots of the control center and interview with French Keolis rep towards the end of video, starting at 16:30 min.

As described in the video (~6:10 min), smallest radius of curvature is approx. 22 m for rubber tires running on concrete tracks, compared to over 300 m for typical metro on steel rails.

Time Lapse POV Video (curtesy MasaneMiyaPA on YouTube):


----------



## Woonsocket54

CNGL said:


> Also on the same day, Shendu Gonglu is changing its name (again!) to Pujiang Jiaoye Gongyuan, I wonder if when they finally build the aerospace museum they'll rename the station yet another time back to its original name of Hangtian Bowuguan...


According to the English Wikipedia, the name change is no longer being considered.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shendu_Highway_station


----------



## FabriFlorence

Silly_Walks said:


> Rubber-tired nonsense.


Why?


----------



## skyridgeline




----------



## skyridgeline

Silly_Walks said:


> Rubber-tired nonsense.





FabriFlorence said:


> Why?



A premium for less noise (serving the residential areas). But the brakes can still get loud ( like a bus :lol.


----------



## Silly_Walks

FabriFlorence said:


> Why?


More resistance = more energy use.

And they are very uncomfortable, shaking left and right, and the braking and accelerating are uncomfortable as well.


----------



## saiho

Songjiang Tram

By 导乘信息


----------



## saiho

*Fengpu BRT opened today*

Cab view video during testing

 

 



Source


----------



## Ghostpoet

saiho said:


> *Fengpu BRT opened today*
> 
> Cab view video during testing
> 
> Source


According to the https://www.shine.cn/archive/metro/public-services/New-BRT-route-plan-outlined/shdaily.shtml, the BRT is 31,2 km long, but according to the http://newsxmwb.xinmin.cn/shizheng/szt/2018/04/20/31380245.html is just 20,3 km long... What is correct?
Also, how many buses operates the line and hwo is producer of the buses? Buses are hybrid or electric? And finally; how and where buses are recharged?

Thank you!

Ghostpoet


----------



## saiho

Ghostpoet said:


> According to the https://www.shine.cn/archive/metro/public-services/New-BRT-route-plan-outlined/shdaily.shtml, the BRT is 31,2 km long, but according to the http://newsxmwb.xinmin.cn/shizheng/szt/2018/04/20/31380245.html is just 20,3 km long... What is correct?


I believe the discrepancy is between the plans used. 20.3 km is the length opened today, which runs between Nanqiao long distance bus terminal in Fengxian City Center heading north to Shendu Highway Metro Station. The website article that claims the line will be 31.2 km long is older and states that the BRT will be reach Oriental Sports Center Metro Station, which is much father north than Shendu Highway Station. This is likely an older plan. However I doubt the missing section between Shendu Highway and Oriental Sports Center will get built as it will overlap with the recently announced Metro Line 19.


----------



## Ghostpoet

saiho said:


> I believe the discrepancy is between the plans used. 20.3 km is the length opened today, which runs between Nanqiao long distance bus terminal in Fengxian City Center heading north to Shendu Highway Metro Station. The website article that claims the line will be 31.2 km long is older and states that the BRT will be reach Oriental Sports Center Metro Station, which is much father north than Shendu Highway Station. This is likely an older plan. However I doubt the missing section between Shendu Highway and Oriental Sports Center will get built as it will overlap with the recently announced Metro Line 19.


Thank you Saiho!
Any info about the buses?

regards!

Ghostpoet


----------



## saiho

Buses are battery buses that fully charge or 10 mins at the terminals and at the bus depot.


----------



## General Huo

The next generation of track-laying machine is used for the first time in Shanghai metro construction. See how it glides along the tunnel walls.


----------



## Manhai

Construction of Jing'an Temple Line 14 station, looking southwards along Huashan Road from behind the temple itself. The elevated highway going across is Yan'an Road.


----------



## Manhai

Night-time shot of the same construction on the other (southern) side of Yan'an Road.
Apparently the technique they are using is "pipe jacking technology", which I think is a translation of "trenchless technology". Can any experts verify this?
https://translate.google.com/transl...tail-ifyuwqfa7416168.shtml&edit-text=&act=url
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trenchless_technology


----------



## saiho

^^More like Pipe Ramming/Jacking but yes a trenchless method of construction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipe_ramming
https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E9%A1%B6%E7%AE%A1%E6%96%BD%E5%B7%A5


----------



## Ashis Mitra

Shanghai metro is the best metro network of the world, and also the proud of Asia. After some initial slow construction, later it got very fast pace. But recently I'm observing that the construction speed is slower like some years before. Now I am explaining this - 

Line *5* southern extension was early planned to open in 2017, but the deadline was missed, now they rescheduled to complete it in 2018. My question is, why it is getting delayed? Following the trend, I think they will miss again the deadline, and will not be opened before 2019. What are the problems for the late constructions? Please write some details.

Earlier line *8* west extension was planned, but now it is cancelled, and converted to a people-mover, but why? Metro is much bigger and faster than people-mover, and people should also forced to change from metro to people-mover at Shengdu Highway. Why such plan changing? Please write some details.

Why line *16* and *17* use 3rd rail, when other lines use overhead wire? What are the special reason of this?


----------



## saiho

Ashis Mitra said:


> Why line *16* and *17* use 3rd rail, when other lines use overhead wire? What are the special reason of this?


You asked this 1 year ago and I answered it with a post I made 2 years ago... hno: Are you going to ask this again in July 2019? :bash:



saiho said:


> Ashis Mitra said:
> 
> 
> 
> A peculiarity is that line 16 uses 3rd rail, where rest of all lines uses overhead wire. Why there are two different traction system? Two different electricity system will increase maintenance cost. It is not impossible to convert the two line to overhead wire.
> 
> 
> 
> Posted 1 year ago...
> 
> 
> 
> saiho said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> metr0p0litain said:
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that only line 16 uses third rails instead of overhead wires. Why? Will new lines also use third rails or will line 16 be an exception?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They wanted to reduce the visual impact of the mostly elevated line. Line 17 which is also mostly elevated will use 3rd rail too. But other lines such as Line 14,15 and 18 which are underground will use overhead lines.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## The Chemist

Ashis Mitra said:


> Line *5* southern extension was early planned to open in 2017, but the deadline was missed, now they rescheduled to complete it in 2018. My question is, why it is getting delayed? Following the trend, I think they will miss again the deadline, and will not be opened before 2019. What are the problems for the late constructions? Please write some details.


The Line 5 extension is now shown on the newest maps at Metro stations, so I'd be very surprised if it didn't open this year. My guess is that one of the things they're waiting on is the extension of the existing station platforms to 6 car length (previous Line 5 trains were only 4 cars).


----------



## Ashis Mitra

Shanghai tram although is running still on one route, but two more routes are under construction I heard. The present route is rubber tyred system, with metro line *2* and on eastern Shanghai, but the new routes will be totally in opposite direction,i.e with metro line *9* and on western Shanghai. Those routes will be steel wheeled tram routes, like most of the world.

Thankfully they chose traditional steel wheel tram because it is cheaper and parts are easily available. However, still I haven't got any photos of those routes. Please post some recent photos of future Songjiang area tram routes. When it is planned to commercially opening?


----------



## Woonsocket54

Construction of new station building at Xinzhuang Station









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...huang_Station_Building_under_Construction.jpg


----------



## CNGL

Per the latest news they have completed laying tracks on the Pudong section of line 13 and thus test runs can proceed. It is expected to open by the end of this year, not only to Huaxia Zhonglu but all the way to Zhangjiang Lu. I previously thought the Huaxia Zhonglu-Zhangjiang Lu section, being a different phase from the Shibo Dadao-Huaxia Zhonglu one, wouldn't open until 2020.


----------



## saiho

> *Shanghai receives 5000th metro car*
> 
> The 5000th vehicle is part of an order for 31 eight-car type 02A05 trains being supplied by CRRC Zhuzhou Electric Locomotive to increase capacity on Line 2.
> 
> Shanghai opened its first metro line in May 1993 and the network has expanded rapidly, reaching 637km at the end of 2017. According to IRJ Pro, another 150km is currently under construction or planned.
> 
> The train fleet reached 1000 cars in 2007, 2000 cars in 2012, and 3000 cars in 2016. Shanghai Shentong Metro Group says it expects to receive its 7000th metro car in 2020.


Source


----------



## Attus

Can you give me some information about the length of the cars/trainsets?


----------



## The Chemist

I saw an article (Chinese only) that stated Line 2 from Guanglan Rd. to Pudong Airport is being converted now for 8-car trains and that as early as next year 8 car trains will be able to go all the way to the airport, eliminating the need for the transfer to a 4-car train at Guanglan Rd.


----------



## ddes

The Chemist said:


> I saw an article (Chinese only) that stated Line 2 from Guanglan Rd. to Pudong Airport is being converted now for 8-car trains and that as early as next year 8 car trains will be able to go all the way to the airport, eliminating the need for the transfer to a 4-car train at Guanglan Rd.


Interesting. I always thought that the reason was that the demand for Guanglan Road to Pudong Airport was significantly lower as the majority of the line runs through flat plains of undeveloped reclaimed land.


----------



## maginn

The Chemist said:


> I saw an article (Chinese only) that stated Line 2 from Guanglan Rd. to Pudong Airport is being converted now for 8-car trains and that as early as next year 8 car trains will be able to go all the way to the airport, eliminating the need for the transfer to a 4-car train at Guanglan Rd.


Let's see the article. 
I haven't found it and thought this was just a plan and not actually happening!


----------



## Woonsocket54

Songjiang tram is expected to open 2018.12.25 and will be operated by Keolis

https://www.ville-rail-transports.com/lettre-confidentielle/premier-contrat-tramway/


----------



## Lion007

*New Metro Line Will Link Suzhou and Shanghai:banana::cheers::banana::cheers: *

By Justine Lopez, September 7, 2018

It will soon be easier (and faster) than ever to get between Shanghai and Suzhou. A plan to link the Shanghai Metro with a new Suzhou subway line was officially approved by the National Development and Reform Commission on Thursday, Shine reports. Suzhou will continue expanding its Rail Transit (also known as the Suzhou Metro) for the next few years. The newly approved lines will be completed in 2023. 

A total of four new lines were approved yesterday, including Line S1. S1 will link Suzhou and Shanghai and will stop off at Shanghai Metro’s Huaqiao Station on Line 11. This line will stretch 41 kilometers and contain 27 stops. S1 will begin at Suzhou Industry Park, take commuters across Kunshan and stop off in Huaqiao in Kunshan. In addition, S1 will connect with Suzhou Metro’s Line 3. 

Line S1 will provide commuters with large, Level-A trains, which will travel up to 100 km/h. The new line will cost roughly RMB27.4 billion (USD4 billion). 

In addition to Line S1, lines 6, 7 and 8 of Suzhou’s Rail Transit have also been approved. Once completed, Suzhou’s subway system will span over 350 kilometers. 

The city does have plans to expand the metro system to 15 lines, stretching 768 kilometers, in the future. 

Rail Transit currently consists of three lines: 1, 2 and 4. Lines 3 and 5 are currently being built. 

http://www.thatsmags.com/shanghai/post/24918/new-subway-line-will-link-suzhou-and-shanghai-metros


----------



## Lion007

*Suzhou unveils Shanghai Metro link plans:banana::cheers::banana::cheers:* 

Visiting nearby Suzhou could become part of daily commute for Shanghai residents as a new subway line linking the two cities takes shape. 

Suzhou, in neighboring Jiangsu Province, plans to build a new rail line to link up with Shanghai’s Metro system.

The National Development and Reform Commission, or China’s top economic planning body, yesterday approved Suzhou’s expansion plan for its Rail Transit, also known as Suzhou Metro, through 2023.

As the longest among the four newly approved lines, Line S1 will connect with Huaqiao Station, one of the terminuses of Shanghai’s Metro Line 11.

According to the plan published on the official website of the commission, the 41-kilometer Line S1 will start from Suzhou Industry Park in the east of downtown and go through Kunshan, a county-level city in Jiangsu, to reach Huaqiao in Kunshan.

Line S1 will also intersect with Line 3 of the Suzhou Metro, which runs across Suzhou, according to the commission.

With a total investment of about 27.4 billion yuan (US$4 billion), Line S1 will have 27 stations. It is scheduled to be completed by 2023.

Line S1 will use Level-A trains, the biggest among the nation’s four tiers of Metro carriers, with either four or six carriages and operating at a maximum speed of 100 kilometers per hour. Most of Shanghai’s Metro trains have an average speed of 80kph.

Suzhou should do research on how to better connect with Shanghai’s Metro Line 11 in the early planning stage, by optimizing the design for subway stations and transit plans, the commission said.

Detailed plans will be decided by both the Jiangsu Province and Shanghai governments, according to the commission.

The current most common mode for locals to get to Suzhou is by high-speed or bullet trains or by road. It takes about half an hour to reach Suzhou from local railway stations.

The commission has also approved Lines 6, 7 and 8 for Suzhou’s Metro system. Upon completion, the city’s subway length will total 353.4 kilometers.

In the longer term, Suzhou plans to build 15 Metro lines totaling 768 kilometers. 

Currently, the garden city has three Metro lines — Line 1, 2 and 4 — in operation, while two new lines, Line 3 and 5 are under construction, according to Suzhou’s Metro operator.










*The newly approved Line S1 (in blue color) of Suzhou Metro system will connect with the Huaqiao Station, one of the terminuses of Shanghai's Metro Line 11.*


----------



## saiho

Type B trains for the Pudong Airport people mover between the new satellite terminal and existing terminals 1 and 2.

Posted by 地铁咸鱼qiqi090627 from Weibo


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Sorry for the off-topic guys, but where did *Big-Dog* disappear? He used to be an active contributor to this particular thread but his last activity was very long ago. I tried to contact him via email he left here and via PM but didn't get a reply.

Would anyone please PM me if there are any other ways to get in touch with him (WeChat, for instance)? thanks in advance. /off-topic.


----------



## Silly_Walks

_Night City Dream_ said:


> where did *Big-Dog* disappear?


Perhaps he got a puppy?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Attus said:


> Can you give me some information about the length of the cars/trainsets?


I did it here several years ago.
In general^ in Shanghai metro there are 2 types of trains: A and C. No B.

A trains have cars 22x3 m. C cars are 19x2.6 m.

Different lines have different type and number of trains.

Line 1 8 A-car EMUs.
Line 2 8 A-car EMUs.
Line 3 6 A-car EMUs.
Line 4 6 A-car EMUs.
Line 5 4 C-car EMUs.
Line 6 4 C-car EMUs.
Line 7 6 A-car EMUs.
Line 8 7 to 8 C-car EMUs. The main strategic mistake.
Line 9 6 A-car EMUs.
Line 10 6 A-car EMUs.
Line 11 6 A-car EMUs.
Line 12 6 A-car EMUs.
Line 13 6 A-car EMUs.
Line 16 3 A-car EMUs.
Line 17 6 A-car EMUs (?).

Hope my data is still relevant.
Note that if you talk about one particular type of the train, it doesn't mean at all that the train are the same. In Shanghai, for ex, there are 7 different models of A trains, and 2 or 3 models of C-type.


----------



## saiho

Line 5 posted by 赵特特爱轨交


----------



## saiho

Line 1 by lejiahaozi


----------



## saiho

赵特特爱轨交


----------



## saiho

Line 2 by 東風8B-5911_lxy2009


----------



## saiho

Line 1 by 4LCA-2138


----------



## saiho

Line 9 posted by 上海地铁shmetro


----------



## Ashis Mitra

At the last year at last line *5* south extension has completed, and now metro reached more far away like line *16* & *17*. Beside these the long time gap between two sections of line *13* has also completed and made this line actually viable.

At present, construction of line *14* & *15* is going satisfactorily. Both of these lines are planned to open in next year.

Line *14* will run from Guiqiao Road to Fengbang, which will have interchange with many lines, and will also an underwater line, which will pass under Huangpu River. It will be a very busy line because it will pass under city center. 

Line *15* will run from Gucun Park to Zizhu Hi-Tech Industrial Development Zone, which will also have interchange with many lines, but it will not be so busy line because it will bypass under city center. However, those who could avoid city area jam, could use this line.

Presently The Shanghai metro network is almost 670 Km, which is the largest, but after opening these lines, it will be *730 Km*, just unbelievable, so much large metro system!!!!!!


----------



## maginn

Line 10 will also get a northern extension into Pudong to connect with Line 6. This should open either at the end of this year or next year.


----------



## CNGL

Ashis Mitra said:


> At the last year at last line *5* south extension has completed, and now metro reached more far away like line *16* & *17*. Beside these the long time gap between two sections of line *13* has also completed and made this line actually viable.
> 
> At present, construction of line *14* & *15* is going satisfactorily. Both of these lines are planned to open in next year.
> 
> Line *14* will run from Guiqiao Road to Fengbang, which will have interchange with many lines, and will also an underwater line, which will pass under Huangpu River. It will be a very busy line because it will pass under city center.
> 
> Line *15* will run from Gucun Park to Zizhu Hi-Tech Industrial Development Zone, which will also have interchange with many lines, but it will not be so busy line because it will bypass under city center. However, those who could avoid city area jam, could use this line.
> 
> Presently The Shanghai metro network is almost 670 Km, which is the largest, but after opening these lines, it will be *730 Km*, just unbelievable, so much large metro system!!!!!!


Don't forget line 18, which will run from Changjiang Nanlu to Hangtou and at a right angle from the other lines at Longyang Lu, also bypassing city center but to the East. I know you are more interested in filling numbering gaps, but there are also lines beyond the highest operational one.


----------



## Ashis Mitra

Perhaps Shanghai is the only city in the world where even trams use number-plates, may be it in Zhongjiang, or may be it in Songjiang. I don't know why.


----------



## saiho

By 赵特特爱轨交


----------



## Ashis Mitra

At last steel wheel tram returned again in Shanghai. I always think that steel wheel tram with overhead wire is the best tram system, because it is cheaper to build and maintain, an also offer higher speed than rubber tyre tram. 

Currently there is only one route, route 2, which runs partially. In future it will be extended more and will create a circular tram route around Songjiang area, the 2nd satellite township of Shanghai. This town is also connected with metro line 9. At Songjiang University town, there is the exchange of metro and tram. 

This route is being extended from Xutang Road to Jinxi Road, where it will meet with future route 1. That route 1 will run from Xinqiao Rail Station to Chenta Road via Canghua Road. So in future, route 2 service will be extended from Xutang Road to North Sanxin Road via Jinxi Road, and then route 2 will run as a lariot type route.

I heard that both route 2 extension and route 1 will be opened in July 2019, is it true? How the construction is going?


----------



## saiho

by -qiqi090627-


----------



## saiho

Line 6 by 赵特特爱轨交


----------



## The Chemist

Ashis Mitra said:


> At the last year at last line *5* south extension has completed, and now metro reached more far away like line *16* & *17*. Beside these the long time gap between two sections of line *13* has also completed and made this line actually viable.
> 
> At present, construction of line *14* & *15* is going satisfactorily. Both of these lines are planned to open in next year.
> 
> Line *14* will run from Guiqiao Road to Fengbang, which will have interchange with many lines, and will also an underwater line, which will pass under Huangpu River. It will be a very busy line because it will pass under city center.
> 
> Line *15* will run from Gucun Park to Zizhu Hi-Tech Industrial Development Zone, which will also have interchange with many lines, but it will not be so busy line because it will bypass under city center. However, those who could avoid city area jam, could use this line.
> 
> Presently The Shanghai metro network is almost 670 Km, which is the largest, but after opening these lines, it will be *730 Km*, just unbelievable, so much large metro system!!!!!!



I'm personally looking forward to Line 15 the most because it runs right past my apartment complex (near Zhumei Road, 3 stops south of Shanghai South Railway Station). :cheers:


----------



## The Chemist

saiho said:


> by -qiqi090627-


Nice picture showing proof that 8 car trains are now running all the way out to Pudong Airport (previously you had to switch at Guanglan Road to 4 car trains, but since earlier in the year all stations on the east end of Line 2 can now accommodate 8 car trains).


----------



## Dr.Dennis.Deng

That could only be very recently, 3weeks Abo, I Stil, and to change at Guanglanlu.


----------



## CNGL

8 car trains have been running all the way to Pudong Guoji Jichang since April 18 (Almost a month now). However one still has to change trains at Guanglan Lu during the a.m. rush hour.


----------



## The Chemist

CNGL said:


> 8 car trains have been running all the way to Pudong Guoji Jichang since April 18 (Almost a month now). However one still has to change trains at Guanglan Lu during the a.m. rush hour.


Yeah, the article I saw said they only run to the airport at off peak hours. I'm assuming it has to do with insufficient rolling stock to run the whole line at 8 car trains during the morning and afternoon peak.


----------



## saiho

赵特特爱轨交 Line 5


----------



## saiho

Line 17 by 上海地铁shmetro


----------



## The Chemist

saiho said:


>


These new style fare gates are SO much nicer than the ancient turnstile style that still predominate throughout the system. I wonder if there are any plans to replace all the fare gates with this new style.


----------



## saiho

Zhangjiang Tram by 赵特特爱轨交


----------



## lkstrknb

This video shows the Shanghai Zhangjiang Tram soon after the line opened.
3:20 in the video shows the switch in operation.


----------



## saiho

Line T2 of the Songjiang Tramway opened on August 10 creating a circle line.



Source


----------



## CNGL

Being more interested in metro than trams, coupled with the fact I'm in low season checking for updates has made me to miss that. It's line T1 what opened. It is also true that line T2 has been made into a loop line, and it appears that it needs to do two switchbacks at Sanxin Beilu and Jingxi Lu in addition to the one at Songjiang Daxuecheng. On the bright side, there's now a second link to metro line 9 at Songjiang Tiyu Zhongxin (two stops down the line from Sogjiang Daxuecheng).

On a side note, one of the new tram stops is named Renmin Beilu. It is not to be confused with the far more known, central metro station, Renmin Guangchang (People's Square).


----------



## saiho

Line 14 Train will run in ATO mode by 4LCA-2138


----------



## saiho

Line 14 Trains by 地铁咸鱼Q


----------



## saiho

Line 2 by 地铁咸鱼Q


----------



## saiho

Line 2 by 地铁咸鱼Q


----------



## Woonsocket54

Zhongning Road Metro Station (中宁站) on line 14, Under Construction Shanghai, China, September 2019









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Zhongning_Road_Station_Under_Construction_Shanghai.jpeg


----------



## saiho

Yan'an eBRT by 源猫君


----------



## saiho

源猫君


----------



## _Night City Dream_

And where are super capacitor buses that used to run on line 20?


----------



## General Huo

AI bus service with lower costs in Shanghai


> For years China has had what are called "tailored" bus lines, special routes set up for people in similar locations with similar travel problems. That's beneficial for passengers, but bus companies always had trouble making money from these routes. Now, however, Artificial Intelligence might have come to the rescue.


----------



## CNGL

The Airport link line started construction a few months ago, but this will be a regular railway featuring commuter rail services instead of a metro line, much like the Jinshan line. All other planned commuter rail lines will also be railways except for the Chongming line (which will be a metro line like the Lingang and Qingpu lines better known as lines 16 and 17 respectively). This appears to mean in the long term the Huaqiao branch of line 11 would be converted from a metro line into a regular railway, as it is planned to become part of the Baoshan-Jiading line. Here is a map of the planned suburban railway network:


----------



## Dr.Dennis.Deng

That looks pretty interesting. I could not find a circle forming the "Inner Circle Line" ... but Jinshanline getting a station at Shanghai Tiyuguan is really something! That means, it nearly reached Xujiahui!


----------



## cheehg

Dr.Dennis.Deng said:


> That looks pretty interesting. I could not find a circle forming the "Inner Circle Line" ... but Jinshanline getting a station at Shanghai Tiyuguan is really something! That means, it nearly reached Xujiahui!


I think this line should extend to Shanghai station and then connect to Shanghai North. It could be the line 1's express version.

Shanghai needs at least one north-south, one west-east and one circle as the express railways. Conventional metro is too slow for a such big city.


----------



## maginn

Where did you get the news about an extension of the Jinshan Line into downtown Shanghai? As far as I’m aware, only a westward extension to Pinghu (Zheijiang province) has been considered.


----------



## cheehg

maginn said:


> Where did you get the news about an extension of the Jinshan Line into downtown Shanghai? As far as I’m aware, only a westward extension to Pinghu (Zheijiang province) has been considered.


From the map the line extends to Tiyuguan. But who knows in the future. Airport express line came out from nowhere and now it is in construction.


----------



## CNGL

For the first time since 2002. I was about to say 2016 but while it's true Shanghai didn't open anything in the year end wave that year they opened a one-station extension, line 11 from Kangxin Gonglu to Dishini (i.e. Disney resort), in April.

I worry about Shanghai lagging behind with metro planning. They should have been planning some express lines through downtown by now, but up to now I haven't heard nothing yet.


----------



## indianrailfan

CNGL said:


> For the first time since 2002. I was about to say 2016 but while it's true Shanghai didn't open anything in the year end wave that year they opened a one-station extension, line 11 from Kangxin Gonglu to Dishini (i.e. Disney resort), in April.
> 
> I worry about Shanghai lagging behind with metro planning. They should have been planning some express lines through downtown by now, but up to now I haven't heard nothing yet.


The upcoming line 14 will have passing tracks right? Goes right through Lujiazui.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Line 14 is not an express line yet it will run through the downtown.


----------



## CNGL

While it's true Shanghai didn't open any new metro lines or extensions in the year end wave, I missed that on December 30 the Songjiang tram was again enlarged, as line T1 was extended East from its previous terminus at Xinmiao Sanlu to the Xinqiao railway station. Other than the one-stop extension to Chenta Lu at the other end of the line (yes, even in tram lines there are one-stop extensions) AFAIK there are no other tram lines U/C in Shanghai, be it in Songjiang, West Hongqiao, Jiading or elsewhere.

I feel two of the newly opened stops, Xinzhen Jie and Xinzhan Lu, are prone to be confused with each other. To make things worse, the two stops are adjacent to each other.


----------



## Woonsocket54

"*Shanghai's Pudong International Airport to suspend long distance bus services as virus spreads*"

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...e-bus-services-as-virus-spreads-idUSKBN1ZQ097


----------



## Tramwayman




----------



## saiho

New Line 16 Trains under testing. Now in 6 car formation compared to the 3+3 formation of the older models. New trains have more standing room and use more longitudinal seating. There is a strange tapering of the carbody between cars 3 and 4 were the "blind" cabs of the 3+3 set would be. Posted by JCY114.


----------



## Zaz965

only 3 doors per side per car?
I am surprised to see third rail instead of overhead wire


----------



## Woonsocket54

Zaz965 said:


> only 3 doors per side per car?


That's because it's a suburban line with transverse seating. Probably much lower ridership than the rest of the subway.


----------



## Zaz965

in the beggining the line 16 operated 3-car trains


----------



## luacstjh98

saiho said:


> New Line 16 Trains under testing. Now in 6 car formation compared to the 3+3 formation of the older models. New trains have more standing room and use more longitudinal seating. There is a strange tapering of the carbody between cars 3 and 4 were the "blind" cabs of the 3+3 set would be. Posted by JCY114.


It might have something to do with the loading gauge of the line. Presumably the cars 2 and 5 are shorter because there's no cab space, and the platform doors still have to line up between 3+3 and 6 car sets.


----------



## saiho

Ya, now that I think about it, the cab cars in China are usually a little longer than the intermediate cars so they do need the taper for the out-swing on curves.


----------



## Zaz965

line 3
Shanghai-2012-Hongku-stadium by Raphael Olivier, no Flickr

line 3
metro 3rd by 蜡笔 MR, no Flickr


----------



## Tramwayman




----------



## Zaz965

line 1 2:40 and 5:05 appears the new train


----------



## Zaz965

line 2


----------



## hkskyline

* Work on airports express link speeds up *
Shanghai Daily _Excerpt_
May 4, 2020

Construction is in full swing during the Labor Day holiday on the express Metro line which will connect the city’s two airports, to make up for time lost during the novel coronavirus outbreak.

Construction workers are digging a shield well on Meifu Road in Minhang District for the express line which will connect Hongqiao and Pudong airports.

The 128-meter-long and 30-meter-deep working well will be finished by the end of May, according to the Shanghai Tunnel Engineering Co.

This will enable two shield machines with a diameter of 14.07 meters to dig east and west.

The 68.6-kilometer express line is expected to shorten the traveling time between the two airports to less than 40 minutes upon its completion in 2024.

The line will have nine stations across Xuhui and Minhang districts as well as the Pudong New Area.

More : Work on airports express link speeds up


----------



## erkantang

hkskyline said:


> * Work on airports express link speeds up *
> Shanghai Daily _Excerpt_
> May 4, 2020
> 
> Construction is in full swing during the Labor Day holiday on the express Metro line which will connect the city’s two airports, to make up for time lost during the novel coronavirus outbreak.
> 
> Construction workers are digging a shield well on Meifu Road in Minhang District for the express line which will connect Hongqiao and Pudong airports.
> 
> The 128-meter-long and 30-meter-deep working well will be finished by the end of May, according to the Shanghai Tunnel Engineering Co.
> 
> This will enable two shield machines with a diameter of 14.07 meters to dig east and west.
> 
> The 68.6-kilometer express line is expected to shorten the traveling time between the two airports to less than 40 minutes upon its completion in 2024.
> 
> The line will have nine stations across Xuhui and Minhang districts as well as the Pudong New Area.
> 
> More : Work on airports express link speeds up


Have they provided a map with the route of the line? Seems that it’s not in the Wikipedia expansion plan map. Thanks


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Zaz965 said:


> line 1 2:40 and 5:05 appears the new train


What's the name of the new trains? I saw them last august in person.


----------



## CNGL

Even Shanghai is updating their plans. There have been a few changes, but some quite impressive ones.

Line 18 won't end together with line 22 at Changbei Lu anymore. Instead, the interchange will be at Kangning Lu, with line 18 continuing in a future phase to Nanchen Lu at line 7, and line 22 continuing further North and East to Baoshan.
In addition, line 22 won't get past the West railway station. The rest of it has been looped into an outer ring, numbered line 26. Among others, it intersects line 1 at Shanghai Maxicheng (Shanghai Circus World, in addition to Lianhua Lu) and line 2 at Zhangjiang Gaoke (Zhangjiang Hi-Tech Park, in addition to Songhong Lu... thus passing through both endpoints line 2 had between 2006-10)
Another new line, line 27, runs from Longyang Lu initially East, then South. I'm not quite sure how far South, it is said the line will be a express line to Lingang, but there's already line 16.

In addition they are still discussing how to separate lines 3 and 4. There's an option to make a new Western section for line 4, and another is to make line 4 into a Oedo-like line with the addition of the northern section of line 3, thus making line 3 into an almost-shuttle line between Yishan Lu and the South station.


----------



## hkskyline

* Metro Line 2 signals faster service *
Shanghai Daily _Excerpt_
Oct 11, 2020

Intervals of trains on Metro Line 2 could be reduced to 90 seconds thanks to a new signal system, the Metro company said yesterday.

The Metro line will be the first in the world to have two signal systems.

Currently the shortest interval for Line 2 trains is 2 minutes and 30 seconds, while the shortest interval of all trains in Shanghai’s Metro network is 1 minute and 55 seconds.

Linking Shanghai’s two airports, Line 2 is the busiest Metro line in the city with an average daily number of 1.5 million passengers, and a peak daily number of 2 million.

As the first part of Line 2 was opened 20 years ago, station capacity is lacking. Increasing the frequency of trains will help clear out stations.

More : Quicker service on Metro Line 2 thanks to new signal system


----------



## NCT

90 seconds sounds very impressive.

I was worried about the early lines hitting capacity limits and potentially painful weekend engineering works for installing a new signalling system. Sounds like they've been working away in the background and 30+ trains per hour is within sight. (Will frequency actually reach 40tph or will planning headway in reality be a bit higher?)


----------



## saiho

上海地铁shmetro Line 1 Trains


----------



## Stuu

hkskyline said:


> The Metro line will be the first in the world to have two signal systems.


What do they mean by this? Surely they are going to change over to the new system and remove the old one? In which case this same process has happened many times before whenever a metro line has been resignalled


----------



## saiho

Not sure but it might be a fallback system that is kept online to be used when the new CTBC one fails. The HK MTR is doing something similar. Running 24 trains per hour instead of the expected 30+ during a signal fault is better than running zero trains.


----------



## Lion007

Do you know sometring about metro line between Shanghai ang Suzhou?? Some progress??


----------



## saiho

It's called Line S1 and it is under construction opening in 2023. By rt666.


----------



## saiho

Jiamin line design and alignment from south to north posted by zjgmh. Note the double island platforms in some stations, so we can expect some express/local services being implemented on this line at the future. Also seems they are re-using the maglev platform reservations at Hongqiao Station for the Jiamin and airport commuter lines.


----------



## CNGL

Station names, transcripted:
Chengbei Lu
Xincheng Lu
Jiajian Gonglu
Fengmao Lu
Nanxiang
Jinyuan Wulu
Jinyun Lu
Tianshan Lu
Hongqiao (railway station)
Yingbin Sanlu
Huxing Lu
Qibao
Qixin Lu
Xinjian Lu
Yindu Lu

On a side note, it seems this line will be a regular railway one like the Jichang Lianluo (Airport link) line, not a metro one.


----------



## saiho

Line 10 North extension tour posted by JCY114


----------



## saiho

Line 10 north extension exterior posted by fgtrhuyiy

Line 10 seen from from Line 6 platforms at Gangcheng Road station


----------



## saiho

Line 10 Extension posted by 上海地铁shmetro


----------



## CNGL

It appears Shanghai is out of money for new metro lines, this would explain why they haven't started any of the phase 3 projects yet. They are way behind, 2023 is just two years from now. Other cities start as soon as they get the NDRC approval.


----------



## saiho

Two stations on Line 19 (Shibo Avenue and Houtan Stations) already started construction last year that is a phase 3 project.


----------



## lawdefender

In fact, the phase 3 expansion of Shanghai Metro (2018-2023) has not officially started to construct yet.

The above stations in the photo are just for preparation.

The phase 3 expansion needs at least 6 years to complete, if the financial budget available, maybe it can be completed by 2030.


----------



## NCT

CNGL said:


> It appears Shanghai is out of money for new metro lines, this would explain why they haven't started any of the phase 3 projects yet. They are way behind, 2023 is just two years from now. Other cities start as soon as they get the NDRC approval.


While there's some truth to that, it's really a case Shanghai is in a different phase of metro development compared to the rest of the country. It has achieved a basic universal level of coverage now and future lines are about densification and express lines. Building metro lines in Shanghai is becoming much more expensive as the demolition hurdle is so much greater (you are not demolishing slums but reasonable quality fairly recent building stock or neighbourhoods of historical value).

Shanghai's comparator isn't the rest of China - building a metro in Shanghai is fast approaching the level of difficulty of building Crossrail in London.

Yes, compared to Shanghai's peers of Beijing, Guangzhou and Shenzhen Shanghai does seem to be lagging behind. But Shanghai has always been the one left to fend for itself while central government pilfers Shanghai's tax revenue.


----------



## saiho

Well they could build more elevated alignments. Eg Line 13 West Extension and Line 23 Phase 1. Most of the new phase 3 projects are not even in the city center.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

NCT said:


> 90 seconds sounds very impressive.


Here in Moscow we have such headways during peak hours on most of the lines.


----------



## CNGL

A new line and an extension are opening on December 26. The new line is line 18, which eventually will be a North-South line bypassing the city center to the East, although for now it will only open South of Yuqiao to Hangtou, a section comprising 15 km and 8 stations. Too bad it stops at Yuqiao because that means two transfers are required to reach Renmin Guangchang (People's Square) from Hangtou, if they only managed to get it done up to Longyang Lu... Meanwhile line 10 is being extended from Xinjiangwancheng to Jilong Lu, adding 10 km and 6 stations to the line and providing an alternate for the far northern end of Pudong to the severely overcrowded line 6.


----------



## indianrailfan

NCT said:


> While there's some truth to that, it's really a case Shanghai is in a different phase of metro development compared to the rest of the country. It has achieved a basic universal level of coverage now and future lines are about densification and express lines. Building metro lines in Shanghai is becoming much more expensive as the demolition hurdle is so much greater (you are not demolishing slums but reasonable quality fairly recent building stock or neighbourhoods of historical value).
> 
> Shanghai's comparator isn't the rest of China - building a metro in Shanghai is fast approaching the level of difficulty of building Crossrail in London.
> 
> Yes, compared to Shanghai's peers of Beijing, Guangzhou and Shenzhen Shanghai does seem to be lagging behind. But Shanghai has always been the one left to fend for itself while central government pilfers Shanghai's tax revenue.


Well Beijing, and to a large extent Guangzhou suffer from lower capacity rakes. Beijing is practically duplicating its entire network which could have been avoided if they went for higher capacity design from the get go. Barring 1-2 lines, Shanghai's network doesn't have that problem.


----------



## krebsatp

Maybe for just a few days, but Shanghai Metro is again the world´s largest system with 695 km


----------



## CNGL

Yep, because Beijing is opening 15 km on December 31 and the difference is less than that. Wikipedia puts Shanghai at 699.5 km now. Almost.


----------



## WesselKornel

Line 14 is dug through!








Digging complete on city's Metro Line 14 (shine.cn)


----------



## saiho

Line 18 Trains by Wakana_Seytiliz


----------



## dimlys1994

Line 18 cab ride:


----------



## _Night City Dream_

What new stations were opened in 2020? Sorry, I missed it out.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

CNGL said:


> A new line and an extension are opening on December 26. The new line is line 18, which eventually will be a North-South line bypassing the city center to the East, although for now it will only open South of Yuqiao to Hangtou, a section comprising 15 km and 8 stations. Too bad it stops at Yuqiao because that means two transfers are required to reach Renmin Guangchang (People's Square) from Hangtou, if they only managed to get it done up to Longyang Lu... Meanwhile line 10 is being extended from Xinjiangwancheng to Jilong Lu, adding 10 km and 6 stations to the line and providing an alternate for the far northern end of Pudong to the severely overcrowded line 6.


So, 25 km and 14 stations in total for 2020?


----------



## Zaz965




----------



## WesselKornel

Changfeng Park Station, photo by Jiang Xiaowei for Shine.cn










Shanghai South Railway Station, photo by Jiang Xiaowei for Shine.cn










Wuzhong Rd Station, photo by Jiang Xiaowei for Shine.cn










Changfeng Park station, photo by Jiang Xiaowei, for shine.cn


Line 15, running north-south on the west of the city, is bound to open before chinese new year! (except for Guilin Rd, that station will open later) I am very happy to see that the interior design is a bit more characteristic than most metro stations. Not yet quite characteristic enough though, for my liking. I wish the platforms would also be unique each, so you can see where you are while riding the train without reading signs.

Line 15 passes pre-operation safety tests (shine.cn)
this article highlights more details and has a nice video, including details on how they continued construction as much as possible during the lockdown


----------



## CNGL

Wow, Shanghai had an ace up its sleeve and it's claiming again the longest metro title yet again. Now that is something. Line 15 is opening in one shot, from Gucun Gongyuan to Zizhu Gaoxinqu, all 42.3 km of it. Only 29 out of 30 stations will be open, though. I remember line 15 was to end at Qihua Lu (a station on line 7 that opened long after the line did), however it was shifted to Jinqiu Lu. This sparked a controversy as line 15 wouldn't interchange line 7 anymore, so they ended up extending it to Gucun Gongyuan. Also, I see line 15 will finally interchange line 2 at Loushanguan Lu after all. Unfortunately Hongbaoshi Lu (I swear it was called "Gubei Lu") falls in between Shuicheng Lu and Yili Lu of line 10, so interchange between the two lines won't be possible.


----------



## Frenchlover

Always better with a map :


----------



## CNGL

WesselKornel said:


> Changfeng Park Station, photo by Jiang Xiaowei for Shine.cn
> 
> Shanghai South Railway Station, photo by Jiang Xiaowei for Shine.cn
> 
> Wuzhong Rd Station, photo by Jiang Xiaowei for Shine.cn
> 
> Changfeng Park station, photo by Jiang Xiaowei, for shine.cn
> 
> 
> Line 15, running north-south on the west of the city, is bound to open before chinese new year! (except for Guilin Rd, that station will open later) I am very happy to see that the interior design is a bit more characteristic than most metro stations. Not yet quite characteristic enough though, for my liking. I wish the platforms would also be unique each, so you can see where you are while riding the train without reading signs.
> 
> Line 15 passes pre-operation safety tests (shine.cn)
> this article highlights more details and has a nice video, including details on how they continued construction as much as possible during the lockdown


Opening on Saturday, January 23.


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## Zaz965

I hope line 15 will be a busy line


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## Zaz965

observation: line 15 unfortunately doesn't have direct conection to line 10 but I am relieved to see the conection to line 2 goes direct to Hongqiao airport


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## Zaz965

a new video about line 15


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## Zaz965

one more video about line 15


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## dimlys1994

From Metro Report:









Rubber-tyred ‘intelligent digital-rail transport system’ launched


CHINA: An 'intelligent digital-rail transport system' has begun trial operations in the Lingang New Area of Shanghai. The 21·7 km demonstration Line T1 links Dishui station on metro Line 16 to Nicheng, with nine stops. It is expected to be fully operational by June. The medium-capacity iDRT ...




www.railwaygazette.com


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## saiho

東風8B-5911_lxy2009


----------



## CNGL

So it appears Shanghai is finally getting ready to start building new lines. Namely the 1st phases of lines 21 and 23 (the latter will take over the older branch of line 5), the 2nd phase of line 18, and extensions to lines 2, 13 and 17. I didn't knew about the last project before, it is a very long (6.6 km) one-station extension from Dongfang Lvzhou (oh, the irony, the Westernmost station of Shanghai metro has "East" on it) to Xicen. The 2nd phase of line 18 has underwent a planning change, adding a station at Changjiang Xilu, going into that large heavy industrial zone, intersecting line 1 at Hulan Lu instead of Tonghe Xincun and ending at Dakang Lu instead of Kangding Lu.


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## WesselKornel

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Shanghai_Metro_Planning.svg



so this map is not up to date anymore? i noticed that line 18 crosses a one-station line at south jiangyang rd, what is that? suzhou metro interchange?


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## cheehg

NCT said:


> The focus is on the outlying areas for the time being, and a lot are national rail rather than metro lines. I'm not too sure about the funding and operating models of those lines in the future (i.e. the split between national and municipal government funding, and whether they'll be part of the metro fare structure with open boarding).
> 
> The only city centre line on the horizon is line 19, a north-south line going through the Lujiazui area.
> 
> As things stand Shanghai will have one of the most sparse central area networks devoid of express lines out of similar sized global cities (Tokyo, Paris, London, New York), and there isn't a forward looking network blueprint. There is now early stage talk of an express line linking Lingang New City and the Central Activity Zone - sounds like there's finally a realisation that a city metro network is inadequate for serving satellite communities (even express metro lines like Line 16) and the CAZ needs additional cross-sectional capacity.
> 
> Metrofans forum closed permanently this month. Lack of planned projects meant the forum became a cesspit of house-price chat and inter-borough mudslinging. The ever more oppressive internet environment was probably the final nail in the coffin.


the lines i mentioned above are mostly not built by CR.


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## NCT

cheehg said:


> the lines i mentioned above are mostly not built by CR.


They are mostly classed as metropolitan railways (市域铁路) as opposed to express metros (轨道快线).

Only Chongming line is metro (part of Shengtong) with metro stock and operations. All the other lines you mentioned will all have CRH rolling stock, and probably with tickets purchasable from 12306 (if they follow the Jinshan line precedent). They probably will operate outside of the national ID-ticketing (实名制) policy.


----------



## gao7

In pics : Line 14 and Line 18
























> Passengers transfer at Changyi Road Station on metro Line 14 and Line 18 in east China's Shanghai, Dec. 30, 2021. Two new metro lines went into operation Thursday in Shanghai, which brings the total length of Shanghai's metro network to 831 km.


In pics: new metro lines in Shanghai


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## cheehg

NCT said:


> They are mostly classed as metropolitan railways (市域铁路) as opposed to express metros (轨道快线).
> 
> Only Chongming line is metro (part of Shengtong) with metro stock and operations. All the other lines you mentioned will all have CRH rolling stock, and probably with tickets purchasable from 12306 (if they follow the Jinshan line precedent). They probably will operate outside of the national ID-ticketing (实名制) policy.


No, they are not. CR is not involved at all. They will be like Hangzhou-Haining line or Nanjing S lines, operating by metro company. CR already stopped investing in new regional lines. Guanggong's lines are transfer ownship to local by shares swip (Wuhan-Guangzhou HSR shares for regional lines). Guangzhou and Shenzhen metro will operate new lines and will take over exisitng lines too.


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## NCT

cheehg said:


> No, they are not. CR is not involved at all. They will be like Hangzhou-Haining line or Nanjing S lines, operating by metro company. CR already stopped investing in new regional lines. Guanggong's lines are transfer ownship to local by shares swip (Wuhan-Guangzhou HSR shares for regional lines). Guangzhou and Shenzhen metro will operate new lines and will take over exisitng lines too.


Interestingly, contrary to my earlier statement, Jinshan line tickets are available on 12306, and there are no capacity limits on each individual train. However all trains have a national rail train number. Sxxxx.

Are the Pearl River Delta lines going to be extricated from 12306 with mandatory reservations and capacity limits done away with?


----------



## cheehg

NCT said:


> Interestingly, contrary to my earlier statement, Jinshan line tickets are available on 12306, and there are no capacity limits on each individual train. However all trains have a national rail train number. Sxxxx.
> 
> Are the Pearl River Delta lines going to be extricated from 12306 with mandatory reservations and capacity limits done away with?


Jinshan line is owed by CR and Shanghai city has shares too. BTW, all CR shanghai's short distance trains are allowed standing tickets.
Jinshan line is allowed metro card or similar payment methods. even some CR HSR trains are allowed Alipay or wechat pay system. Some intercity sections Don't need to buy ticket on 12306 before boarding the train.

Pearl River Delta deal is done on Dec.31. Except Guangzhou-Zhuahi line, other lines will be operated by Guangzhou metro. They will be cut off from CR system.


----------



## NCT

cheehg said:


> Jinshan line is owed by CR and Shanghai city has shares too. BTW, all CR shanghai's short distance trains are allowed standing tickets.
> Jinshan line is allowed metro card or similar payment methods. even some CR HSR trains are allowed Alipay or wechat pay system. Some intercity sections Don't need to buy ticket on 12306 before boarding the train.
> 
> Pearl River Delta deal is done on Dec.31. Except Guangzhou-Zhuahi line, other lines will be operated by Guangzhou metro. They will be cut off from CR system.


There's a difference between standing tickets (valid on specific trains only, and can be sold out, and have to be ID-verified) and turn-up-and-go (board any train, no capacity limits, no ID verification). 

Jinshan line operates the latter, but its fares are calculated on a different rate to Shanghai Metro and there's no continuous fares calculation. Jinshan to Xujiahui is ￥10+￥3, whereas a Shanghai Metro fare (~60km) would be ￥9.

This is just one characteristic that places Jinshan line *apart from* the metro system. Another is the ridiculous CR scheduling.

Guangqing (Guangzhou - Qingyuan) line (already operated by Guangzhou Metro) still requires ID verification and face recognition, features that are not present on metro systems. Once operations of the other lines are fully transferred to Guangzhou Metro, will the fares still be based on ￥0.66/km or changed to the Metro rate (￥2 for the first 2 km, ￥1 for each additional 4, 4, 6, 6 and 8km)? Will tickets still be restricted to specific trains with a finite number of standing tickets per train?


----------



## little universe

*Yuyuan (or Yu Garden) Station - 豫园站*








by 筛边打网 on 500px








by 筛边打网 on 500px








by 筛边打网 on 500px








by 筛边打网 on 500px



​


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## NCT

One of the few stations with matt flooring. Why don't they do the same with other stations?


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## Hourdel

Maybe it is too expensive.


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## hkskyline

*Woman killed on Metro after getting stuck in door *
Shanghai Daily _Excerpt_
Jan 25, 2022

Shanghai Metro confirmed on Monday that a woman died in a tragic accident at a Metro station on Saturday afternoon.

The accident took place at the Qi'an Road Station on Line 15 at 4:30pm on January 22.

An elderly woman was stuck in a screen door on the platform with a train beside her and the staff on the platform tried to help her.

More : Woman killed on Metro after getting stuck in door


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## tojaniety

Well, looks like the PSDs are not so safe.


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## WesselKornel

tragic 

I wonder what the details are: should people have pulled the emergency brake inside the train before it started accelerating or does that not work to keep a train from departing? would it have been avoided if it was not a driverless train?

i always had a fear of being stuck between the platform screen doors and the train


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## NCT

Here's what I can gather from a WeChat group (so take with a large pinch of salt):


Overnight engineering work team switched off the platform screen door (PSD) communication and forgot to switch it back on, so despite the PSD being stuck the train (under automatic operation) still received a signal to proceed (I'm not sure about the credibility of this claim)
The platform staff should have first pressed the emergency stop button before doing anything else. Instead he darted to the scene of the incident.
Both the overnight engineers and platform staff teams are agency staff and there are doubts on the level of training / qualifications they have received.

In any case, there do seem to be two obvious failings

The train received a signal to proceed despite PSD not having closed properly (the train door had things trapped so ought to have prevented the train from preventing too)
Platform staff not pressing the emergency button

I did think there was a remarkably short time being construction completion and start of revenue service on these most recent lines. Crossrail has been complete for some time but have been running trial operation with an exhaustive list of situational drills (passenger incidents, train and station incidents, fire and terror evacuations, etc), and the line will only open to passenger service once they are happy with the outcome of all the tests. It doesn't occur to me that anything near this level of testing was carried out on these Shanghai lines.


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## saiho

What I observe from the video:

If the overnight engineering work team did switch off the platform screen door (PSD) communication and forgot to switch it back on I highly doubt something didn't happen during morning rush hour. The accident happened at 4:30PM the subway would have operated for several hours like this. The system (Alstom Urbalis) should have interlocks that detected this and notified the operator on at least the first few trains in the morning or something like this would have happened at 8AM at any of the 30 PSD doors at the station already. So I find this unlikely and also this does not explain why the train sat at the station so long. Chinese Metro dwells are on the long side but not THAT long. EG long enough for a train to open its doors, exchange passengers, close its doors on someone, only for that person to realize she needs to call for help after the door closed on them, staff to arrive and finally have time to fiddle around with PSD settings. According to the video the last part is already over 20 secs. Trains in china dwell 3-4 seconds at worse after the doors close.
The automatic train control system worked, as shown by the light flashing over the PSD with the door held open and the train did not leave for what looks like a long time. The video was cut so I could not estimate how long the train was dwelling but it looks like the train was sitting there waiting for the obstruction to be cleared. Being that there was enough time for staff to arrive on the scene and fiddle around before the train started moving. I think the train control system got the message that it had to hold.
The platform attendant arrived and looks like he was using his key to switch the PSD to a different mode as shown by him reaching to the top right corner of the PSD, a common place where the switch is located in many PSD models.
I suspect he accidentally* switched it to "isolate mode" which allows the system to ignore the door. This is commonly used if the door is broken or being repaired and the subway still needs to operate. It looks like the train control system, now ignoring the one door with the obstruction, thinks it has permission to proceed.
Train starts and moves 1-2 meters forward but detects the obstruction and stops automatically as shown in the video
Platform attendant pushes the emergency stop 1-2 secs later.
*this is where liability comes in. Was he following the standard procedure outlined by Shanghai Metro? If so it is faulty training/procedures and this is Shanghai Metro's fault for not understanding how the ATC system works. Or Shanghai Metro told him not to do this but he forgot or in the panic the mode was put into the wrong setting (turned the key to the wrong side or too far etc.). Then it is his fault. Or Shanghai Metro didn't even tell him what to do in this situation and he just so happened to know that the PSD has a manual mode. That would be both parties fault.


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## NCT

saiho said:


> What I observe from the video:
> 
> If the overnight engineering work team did switch off the platform screen door (PSD) communication and forgot to switch it back on I highly doubt something didn't happen during morning rush hour. The accident happened at 4:30PM the subway would have operated for several hours like this. The system (Alstom Urbalis) should have interlocks that detected this and notified the operator on at least the first few trains in the morning or something like this would have happened at 8AM at any of the 30 PSD doors at the station already. So I find this unlikely and also this does not explain why the train sat at the station so long. Chinese Metro dwells are on the long side but not THAT long. EG long enough for a train to open its doors, exchange passengers, close its doors on someone, only for that person to realize she needs to call for help after the door closed on them, staff to arrive and finally have time to fiddle around with PSD settings. According to the video the last part is already over 20 secs. Trains in china dwell 3-4 seconds at worse after the doors close.
> The automatic train control system worked, as shown by the light flashing over the PSD with the door held open and the train did not leave for what looks like a long time. The video was cut so I could not estimate how long the train was dwelling but it looks like the train was sitting there waiting for the obstruction to be cleared. Being that there was enough time for staff to arrive on the scene and fiddle around before the train started moving. I think the train control system got the message that it had to hold.
> *The platform attendant arrived and looks like he was using his key to switch the PSD to a different mode as shown by him reaching to the top right corner of the PSD, a common place where the switch is located in many PSD models.*
> *I suspect he accidentally* switched it to "isolate mode" which allows the system to ignore the door. This is commonly used if the door is broken or being repaired and the subway still needs to operate. It looks like the train control system, now ignoring the one door with the obstruction, thinks it has permission to proceed.*
> Train starts and moves 1-2 meters forward but detects the obstruction and stops automatically as shown in the video
> Platform attendant pushes the emergency stop 1-2 secs later.
> *this is where liability comes in. Was he following the standard procedure outlined by Shanghai Metro? If so it is faulty training/procedures and this is Shanghai Metro's fault for not understanding how the ATC system works. Or Shanghai Metro told him not to do this but he forgot or in the panic the mode was put into the wrong setting (turned the key to the wrong side or too far etc.). Then it is his fault. Or Shanghai Metro didn't even tell him what to do in this situation and he just so happened to know that the PSD has a manual mode. That would be both parties fault.


Later accounts seem to suggest this is what happened.

My understanding is that standard procedure is to press the stop button before doing anything else. We don't know whether it's a case of the platform staff not following procedure in a panic, or not having received sufficient training.


----------



## Zaz965

@saiho, @CNGL, which subway line is this?  









by Adwusd on 500px


----------



## NCT

This is Line 3. The train pictured is about to pull into Caoxi Lu Station.

You can just make out the Shanghai Stadium bus interchange underneath the road viaducts and Huating Hotel looming in the background. Oh and the ITC towers under construction.


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## Zaz965

one more pic about line 17










https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_17_(Shanghai_Metro)


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## hkskyline

* Shanghai Metro network grinding to a halt *
Shanghai Daily _Excerpt_
May 10, 2022

Shanghai's Metro network was suspended at 1pm Tuesday completely and will remain closed until further notice, the subway operator Shentong Metro announced.

Metro Lines 6 and 16 in the Pudong New Area, which are the only two lines still operating, will suspend services beginning this afternoon.

Metro officials did not disclose the rationale behind the service suspension.

More : Shanghai Metro network grinding to a halt


----------



## robhood




----------



## Zaz965

some old photos  
Shanghai Metro Line 1 上海地铁1号线 - Adtranz/CSR DC01A trainset by YT | transport photography, on Flickr

Shanghai Metro Line 1 上海地铁1号线 - Alstom AC06 trainset by YT | transport photography, on Flickr


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## General Huo

*The construction of the large railway platform project of the Xinzhuang Comprehensive Transportation Hub Project officially started, accelerating the integration of the Minhang area*
2022-11-14 13:37·Chatterbox FM
*Recently, the construction of the large railway platform of the Xinzhuang Comprehensive Transportation Hub Project officially started, marking that this domestic TOD benchmark project that has received much attention has entered a more difficult engineering stage.*










Construction site of large railway platform

Xinzhuang Comprehensive Transportation Hub Project (also known as: TODTOWN Tianhui) is located in Xinzhuang Subway Station, the core location of the sub-center of Shanghai Xinzhuang City. Ten thousand square meters, a new-generation hub complex integrating travel, residence, office, entertainment, business, social, leisure, etc., is a typical case of urban rail transit land renewal and redevelopment.



Since the subway Xinzhuang station is a ground station, the core feature of the Xinzhuang comprehensive transportation hub project is that it seamlessly connects with the subway Xinzhuang station building. A large platform is built at a height of 14.55 meters above the ground. The entire large platform is composed of a large railway platform (across the railway Jinshan The branch line and the rail area of the Shanghai-Hangzhou Passenger Dedicated Line) and the large platform above the Metro Line 1/5 are composed of two parts. After completion, the entire large platform will "stitch" the north-south urban interface of Xinzhuang that was originally separated by the track, re-excavate the land value, and rejuvenate the city. newborn.



According to the person in charge of project development, the construction of the *large railway platform is expected to take three and a half years to complete.* The construction plan for the large platform above Metro Line 1/5 is currently in the research stage. After the large platform is completed, in addition to integrating the Xinzhuang subway station In addition to the surrounding "scattered" land, a "North-South Road" will be built on the large platform to open up the north-south traffic artery of Xinzhuang and improve the traffic efficiency in the area. At the same time, a 24-hour passage will be set up on the west side of the platform for pedestrians to walk through the North-South Square It will effectively solve the chronic traffic problems that have plagued the public for a long time.










Schematic diagram of the overall construction scope of the large platform










Schematic rendering of "North-South Road"



According to the person in charge of project development, TODTOWN is the first superstructure project developed on existing railway and subway lines in China. It involves countless cooperative units and departments, and the project is extremely difficult. It is necessary to coordinate During the construction process, the relationship between various systems must be well protected for the running railway, subway facilities and passengers, and the impact on the lives of surrounding residents must be reduced. Design problems such as track vibration and noise, and safe evacuation of large platforms must also be solved. .



To this end, the project party has adopted a series of scientific countermeasures in terms of safety, convenience, vibration reduction, and noise reduction, including: establishing a safe production system and improving the management system; Public announcement will be made later; measures such as setting up sound insulation screens, vibration and noise reduction pads, and giving priority to low-noise mechanical equipment and processes will reduce construction noise and the impact of rail transit operation on buildings. In addition, the project also established a scientific research project team with Southwest Jiaotong University to test the track vibration reduction scheme in the test section and make full preparations for construction.





































The real picture of the construction site of the railway line



While building a large platform, the project will also carry out all-round renovation and upgrading of Xinzhuang Subway Station.










Due to the old and poor experience of the existing subway Xinzhuang Station, and in order to cope with the increase in the passenger flow of future transportation hubs, the subway Xinzhuang Station will also carry out an overall upgrade and renovation in combination with the project construction. After the renovation, the area of the station hall and the area of the traffic square It will be expanded and will improve the evacuation and passenger storage capacity of the Xinzhuang comprehensive transportation hub. After reconstruction, Xinzhuang Station will serve as a hub for more than 20 bus lines and taxis, including Rail Transit Line 1, Rail Transit Line 5, Railway Jinshan Branch Line, Railway Shanghai-Hangzhou Passenger Dedicated Line, and the two bus hubs of Xinzhuang North-South Plaza. An integrated city-level comprehensive transportation hub.










Real scene of Xinzhuang South Bus Hub



In addition to the functional optimization of the public transport facilities in the hub, the project party also scientifically matched the functional positioning of TODTOWN Tianhui and Xinzhuang City Sub-center in terms of space planning and design. The three-dimensional space layout is adopted. The three underground floors are comprehensive parking spaces, which form a P+R green travel system with public transportation. ) is a comprehensive property cluster, covering five major business types including residences, office buildings, administrative mansions, hotels, and shopping malls, which together constitute a "TOD hub complex" with a total area of 700,000 square meters to better serve the general public.










Hand-painted renderings of TODTOWN










Schematic diagram of TODTOWN three-dimensional space layering










TODTOWN three-dimensional space layout concept map



Relying on innovative planning, unique location, convenient transportation, and rich business formats, TODTOWN Tianhui has always attracted industry attention. Yue Lin, with its flexible space layout and fashionable artistic elements, is also popular among consumers and has become the first choice for people of insight in Minhang to buy real estate. It will attract more elite talents in Minhang and even Shanghai, and help the regional economic development to play a role effect.










Looking forward to 2035, on the basis of the development of the "14th Five-Year Plan", Minhang District will basically be built into an important strategic support area of Shanghai's world-influential socialist modern international metropolis, and will be fully built into an innovative, open, ecological, Humanistic and modernized main urban area.



Among them, Xinzhuang, as the central strategic core area for the development of Minhang, carries six major functions including administrative services, business services, professional services, high-end manufacturing, innovation and entrepreneurship, and window display. As an important link connecting the Hongqiao hub and the southern Shanghai Science and Technology Innovation Center, the Xinzhuang City Sub-center will form a "dual-core drive" with the Hongqiao City Sub-center to strengthen the north-south communication and expand the radiation of urban resources.










TODTOWN Tianhui | Yuelin renderings



As the core hub complex of the sub-center of Xinzhuang city, TODTOWN will effectively improve the urban appearance and comprehensive service level of Xinzhuang by virtue of its deep understanding of "urban renewal", and help Minhang become an important part of the integration strategy of the Yangtze River Delta. part.



The commencement of construction of the large railway platform marks that the construction of the TODTOWN Tianhui project has entered a new stage, and will lay a solid foundation for the overall completion of the project. We look forward to its majestic appearance as soon as possible.










A bird's-eye view of TODTOWN


----------



## Zaz965

@General Huo, @CNGL, the lines 3 and 4 share some tracks. will the shanghai subway split the lines 3 and 4 some day?


----------



## Zaz965

an awesome ranking


----------



## Pierre50

Very interesting.
Great thanks !


----------



## CNGL

Tokyo is actually further up the ranking at 304 km, the Wikipedia list separates the lines operated by Tokyo Metro from the TOEI ones.


----------



## Victhor

Also Tokyo in that list is not that high ranked by KM, but by passengers it is number 2!, what a contrast.
And Madrid strong still up there!


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## Attus

Annual ridership data is by almost every metro networks from 2020 or 2021, these data is however heavily influenced by Covid restrictions. For example Shanghai had 3.9bn passengers in 2019, and only 2.8bn in 2020. London had a massive collapse: the underground had 1.4bn passengers in 2019 and less than 300 millions in 2020 (-80%). 2022 data will be more meaningful, however, China (home country for 9 of the 10 longest networks) has several restrictions right now, Shanghai was locked down for weeks earlier this year (I guess, no need for futher explanations, every one, following this thread, know the situation). 
(All figures rounded).


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## _Night City Dream_

Zaz965 said:


> @General Huo, @CNGL, the lines 3 and 4 share some tracks. will the shanghai subway split the lines 3 and 4 some day?


They planned to do that by 2015, I remember even regretting it. But they actually did nothing.


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## _Night City Dream_

Victhor said:


> Also Tokyo in that list is not that high ranked by KM, but by passengers it is number 2!, what a contrast.
> And Madrid strong still up there!


Whats is KM?


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## _Night City Dream_

Zaz965 said:


> an awesome ranking


Haha that was my screenshot. %)


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## Victhor

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Whats is KM?


Kilometres (System length in your screenshot)


----------



## General Huo

*The west section of the first phase of Metro Line 20 started construction, passing through Zhenru and Daning areas*
original2022-12-15

The western section of the first phase of Shanghai Metro Line 20 will pass through Putuo and Jing'an districts, and pass through Zhenru sub-center and Daning area from west to east. The total length of the line is about 7.2 kilometers, with a total of 7 stations, of which The seat is a transfer station.

The Shanghai West Railway Station, which started construction this time, is an island-style station with two floors underground. It is located east of Zhennan Road, west of Zhenjin Road, below Jiaotong Road, and is arranged in an east-west direction along Jiaotong Road. Interchange with Line 15.


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## General Huo

*The west extension project of Shanghai Metro Line 12 started today, with a total investment of more than 16 billion yuan*
original2022-12-16 
On the morning of December 16, the G60 Yunlang Station and Husong Highway Station of the West Extension Project of Shanghai Rail Transit Line 12 started simultaneously, marking that the West Extension Project of Shanghai Rail Transit Line 12 has officially entered the project implementation stage.

The west extension project of Line 12 has a total length of about 17.27 kilometers, starting from Dongjing Station and ending at Qixin Road Station (not included), mainly along Shenzhuan Highway Shenzhuan Highway-Xinsong Road-Beizhugang-Diannan Road-Gu Dai Lu walks. The total investment of the project is 16.024 billion yuan, and the construction period is 5 years. The estimated short-term and long-term passenger traffic of the Songjiang section is 14.51, 192,800, and 198,400 passengers per day.


----------



## robhood




----------



## hkskyline

* Construction begins on Metro Line 20, western extension of Line 12 *
Shanghai Daily _Excerpt_
Dec 16, 2022

Two more Metro lines in Shanghai are now under construction, according to Shanghai Shentong Metro Group.

The construction of the western portion of the new Metro Line 20 kicked off on Thursday at the Shanghai West Railway Station stop.

The 7.2-kilometer-long section includes seven stops, connecting the Zhenru area in Putuo District and the Daning area in Jing'an District. Among the seven stops, there will be three interchange stations at which commuters can transfer to Lines 1, 7, 15 and 11.

More : Construction begins on Metro Line 20, western extension of Line 12


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## Victhor

Metro rides figures in Shanghai showing the decline caused by the current Covid outbreak (1000 = 10 million)


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## Kazurro

Victhor said:


> Metro rides figures in Shanghai showing the decline caused by the current Covid outbreak (1000 = 10 million)


Do you have new data? Things are improving?


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## Victhor

Kazurro said:


> Do you have new data? Things are improving?


I don't know where to find that kind of data, that one I found it in news about the Covid, not in any source related to the metro.
But I think the situation is back to normal now, around 3-4 weeks ago the streets where empty, now since around 10 days ago it is improving, now streets are full of people again as normally, I don't know if we are 100% recovered but at least 80-90% for sure we are.

Finally I found this:





上海感染总数？无症状有多少？止泻药要不要买？数据告诉你答案！


上海感染总数？无症状有多少？止泻药要不要买？数据告诉你答案！,症状,止泻药,腹泻




www.163.com


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