# Tourism in the cities ( 2011 )



## Fabio1976 (Nov 9, 2007)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4574058...-nyc-had-record-number-tourists/#.Txd9g6Xj7NU

News about London and Paris ?


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

Interesting to see that the major statistical indicators for New York are amount of tourists and money spent while for the German cities it is usually amount of tourists and amount of days/nights stayed.

Honestly, I wonder how to reliably measure the amount of money spent apart of making surveys which make assumptions for the whole amount of tourists based on a tiny statistical base.

For tourism stats of Hamburg for the whole year 2011 you probably would have to wait until March or April. The statistics office is slow. So I can give you now just the numbers for Jan-Oct 2011:
4.281.499 visitors spending 8.126.452 Nights. About 21% of them coming from abroad. Out of those from abroad, about 75% came from Europe.


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

*NYC counts daytrippers aswell rather than purely overnighters (makes no secret of that fact), which more than doubles the count*. This is why in the same article it states this is the largest amount of tourists in the US (and not the world).

In terms of the rest of the world, only hotel-booking overnighters are counted, by which it would be London or Central Paris as tops (for some reason Parisian counts don't include the suburbs, by which point it would by far be the global leader).

If you were to include daytrippers to London / Paris it would be 80-100 million (130 million alone use London's 6 international airports every year)


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## PadArch (Apr 1, 2010)

probably because there are no officially recognised or defined "suburbs" of paris.. where would you draw the line


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

the line is drawn on Paris City proper - the 20 central arrondissements/ districts that make up the 'intramuros' (within the old city walls) area.

It only counts for number 75 in the map below (and a population of 2.2 million out of 11 million). Everything else is considered the banlieues/ suburbs.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

PadArch said:


> probably because there are no officially recognised or defined "suburbs" of paris.. where would you draw the line


You could just use the Ile de France area.


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

^dont know why they do that, they only count the central areas (Paris City proper), that only account for 2.2 million of the population.


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## Fabio1976 (Nov 9, 2007)

the spliff fairy said:


> *NYC counts daytrippers aswell rather than purely overnighters (makes no secret of that fact), which more than doubles the count*. This is why in the same article it states this is the largest amount of tourists in the US (and not the world).
> 
> In terms of the rest of the world, only hotel-booking overnighters are counted, by which it would be London or Central Paris as tops (for some reason Parisian counts don't include the suburbs, by which point it would by far be the global leader).
> 
> If you were to include daytrippers to London / Paris it would be 80-100 million (130 million alone use London's 6 international airports every year)


But I think that the 10.2 million of foreign tourists are overnighters tourists.


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

yep, the same count in London or Central Paris would be around 15 million foreign, overnighting tourists.

NYC counts daytrippers - many foreign daytrippers include those who pop into the city for a few hours before transferring flights onwards.


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

Just looked it up - daytrippers to London were estimated at 130 million in 2002 and 132 million in 2006. Add on the annual 30 million overnighters, and this total comes to about 160 million a year.

http://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/glaecon-cin-29.pdf


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Here's a list of world top 25 airports by international arrivals in 2010: 

01. London Heathrow
02. Paris CDG
03. Hong Kong
04. Dubai
05. Frankfurt

06. Amsterdam
07. Singapore
08. Seoul
09. Tokyo
10. Bangkok

11. Madrid
12. London Gatwick
13. Munich
14. Kuala Lumpur
15. Rome

16. Taipei
17. New York JFK
18. Zurich
19. Instanbul
20. Toronto

21. Copenhagen
22. Vienna
23. Antalya
24. Dublin
25. Barcelona


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

the spliff fairy said:


> Just looked it up - daytrippers to London were estimated at 130 million in 2002 and 132 million in 2006. Add on the annual 30 million overnighters, and this total comes to about 160 million a year.


Nearly the same for Paris I think. (??)

Anyway, as you already know I presume : Our two 'twin' European megapolis/global cities are truly amazing, both of them in their own style :yes: ! (and... they are located only 2 hours by HS train, from each other ... :bowtie: )


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

How do you count day-trippers? If I live in St Albans and commute to work in London 220 times a year is that 220 day trips?


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## Dr_Cosmo (Nov 8, 2010)

isaidso said:


> Here's a list of world top 25 airports


That is not a tourism related figure.
*
Berlin 2011* Source

22,3 million overnight hotel guests (2010: 20,8)
10 million hotel guests (45% international visitors)
770 hotels with 121.000 beds
156 million daytrippers (estimated)
30 million homestays /private visitors (estimated)
11,7 billion € spent by tourists
223 million overnighters and daytrippers in total
*
Berlin remains the 3rd most visited city in Europe with the highest growth of major world cities.*


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

Jonesy55 said:


> How do you count day-trippers? If I live in St Albans and commute to work in London 220 times a year is that 220 day trips?



No, it's got to be leisure orientated. If you counted commuters it would be in the billions.


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## PadArch (Apr 1, 2010)

Jonesy55 said:


> You could just use the Ile de France area.


Not really, Ile de France =/= Paris. Ile de France is a huge area... Irrespective, the majority of the airports serving Paris are outside paris proper, so if you are counting arrivals it shouldn't make any difference whether they actually go into paris proper or not.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

But in terms of overnight stays, spending etc it could make a big difference.

At the very least it should be Paris plus the three surrounding departments imo.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

@PadArch*: If you say so... :nuts: (* aka the guy who obviously knows how the Paris metro. really works..... ..... etc .... ..... etc .....) ...



hno:




PS: Despite most of the Brisavoine's dreams tell... (= :no


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

isaidso said:


> Here's a list of world top 25 airports by international arrivals in 2010:
> 
> 01. London Heathrow
> 02. Paris CDG
> ...


This list is deceitful, because some cities have more than one airport, and international visitors can also arrive by train (Eurostar in London, Eurostar and Thalys in Paris, etc.).


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

The tourism figures for Paris and its suburbs are available thanks to the Paris Region. Paris receives about 42 million tourists annually (that's people who spend at least one night, but excursionists who come only for a day are not counted, so for example a Belgian familly who comes to Disneyland Paris for one day and returns to Belgium in the evening is not counted). Source: http://www.paris-iledefrance.cci.fr...les_en/2011/chiffres_cles_en_2011_complet.pdf

About 30 million of them are foreign tourists. Source: http://www.paris-region.com/ard/age...l-economie-d-ile-de-france/tout-pour-reussir/

Paris is not the most visited city in the world (Kyoto and probably also Beijing nowadays receive more tourists due to their huge domestic tourism market), but it is the city that receives the most foreign tourists in the world, by a wide margin.

PS: Note that not all the "tourists" are leisure tourists. In a place like Venice, of course 99% of tourists are leisure tourists, but in places like Paris, NYC, or London, many tourists are in fact businessmen on business trips. It is estimated that out of the 42 million tourists to Paris every year, about 11 million are businessmen.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

And businesswomen of course...


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

Right, but men trump women, that's how grammar works. Sorry girls.


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## Dr_Cosmo (Nov 8, 2010)

brisavoine said:


> The tourism figures for Paris


Please give the exact page of your source. I´m interested to read them but not to search them for hours.

Because of marketing reasons many cities calculate different parameters in order to manipulate the size of tourism data.


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

When you're in the PDF, type "42 million" in the search engine (Ctrl + F), and you'll find the 3 occurences of this in the document. Eureka!


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## Dr_Cosmo (Nov 8, 2010)

brisavoine said:


> When you're in the PDF, type "42 million" in the search engine (Ctrl + F), and you'll find the 3 occurences of this in the document. Eureka!


As I assumed: It only says 42 million tourists. That could mean anything or nothing without a methodology laid down.

In my eyes, tourism statistics are only comparable when accounted in overnight stays in a hotel (one visitor paying one night). Based on a defined city territory, urban area.


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

In France a tourist is a non-resident who stays at least one night. It's quite clear. Otherwise it's called an excursionist. A French source would never call excursionists as tourists. Beside, France doesn't keep track of excursionists anyway, you won't find any French statistics listing the number of excursionists (some international bodies calculate it for France, but INSEE doesn't do it as far as I know).


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

brisavoine said:


> This list is deceitful, because some cities have more than one airport, and international visitors can also arrive by train (Eurostar in London, Eurostar and Thalys in Paris, etc.).


No one is that dense. Do we always have to cater to the lowest common denominator? It's clearly a list of international arrivals by airport, nothing more, nothing less. The only people who will get confused are stupid people who can't read.


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## Sarcasticity (May 21, 2005)

isaidso said:


> Here's a list of world top 25 airports by international arrivals in 2010:


Can we have the source for this? I want to see if they made mention of other cities outside the top 25


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

In 2010 the 20 biggest metropolitan areas by passenger traffic were the following: 
1- London (6 airports): 127,353,419 passengers (-2.3% compared to 2009 / -9.0% compared to 2007)
2- New York (5 airports): 105,993,609 pass. (+2.1% comp. to 2009 / -5.1% comp. to 2007)
3- Tokyo (2 airports): 98,004,756 pass. (+4.2% comp. to 2009 / -4.2% comp. to 2007)
4- Atlanta (1 airport): 89,331,622 pass. (+1.5% comp. to 2009 / -0.1% comp. to 2007)
5- Paris (4 airports): 86,360,866 pass. (+0.8% comp. to 2009 / -2.5% comp. to 2007)
6- Chicago (2 airports): 84,341,019 pass. (+3.9% comp. to 2009 / -11.7% comp. to 2007)
7- Los Angeles (5 airports): 79,985,289 pass. (+3.1% comp. to 2009 / -8.9% comp. to 2007)
Hong Kong-Shenzhen (2 airports): 77,062,570 pass. (+10.0% comp. to 2009 / +13.9% comp. to 2007)
8- Beijing (2 airports): 76,088,588 pass. (+13.6% comp. to 2009 / +40.0% comp. to 2007)
9- Shanghai (2 airports): 71,877,433 pass. (+26.1% comp. to 2009 / +39.4% comp. to 2007)
10- Dallas (2 airports): 64,867,419 pass. (+1.7% comp. to 2009 / -4.2% comp. to 2007)
11- Washington (3 airports): 63,647,258 pass. (+3.3% comp. to 2009 / -1.6% comp. to 2007)
12- Miami (2 airports): 58,110,652 pass. (+5.8% comp. to 2009 / +3.0% comp. to 2007)
13- San Francisco Bay Area (3 airports): 57,357,908 pass. (+3.7% comp. to 2009 / +6.4% comp. to 2007)
14- Dubai-Sharjah (2 airports): 53,487,128 pass. (+14.6% comp. to 2009 / +38.2% comp. to 2007)
15- Frankfurt (1 airport): 53,009,221 pass. (+4.1% comp. to 2009 / -2.1% comp. to 2007)
16- Denver (1 airport): 52,209,377 pass. (+4.1% comp. to 2009 / +4.7% comp. to 2007)
17- Moscow (3 airports): 50,836,828 pass. (+23.5% comp. to 2009 / +28.8% comp. to 2007) 
18- Hong Kong (1 airport): 50,348,960 pass. (+10.5% comp. to 2009 / +7.0% comp. to 2007)
19- Madrid (1 airport): 49,863,504 pass. (+3.3% comp. to 2009 / -4.4% comp. to 2007)
20- Houston (2 airport): 49,533,570 pass. (+2.1% comp. to 2009 / -4.4% comp. to 2007)

Evolution of passenger traffic from 2007 to 2010:
Beijing: +40.0%
Shanghai: +39.4%
Dubai-Sharjah : +38.2%
Moscow: +28.8%
Hong Kong-Shenzhen: +13.9%
Hong Kong: +7.0%
San Francisco Bay Area: +6.4%
Denver: +4.7%
Miami: +3.0%
Atlanta: -0.1%
Washington: -1.6%
Frankfurt: -2.1%
Paris: -2.5%
Dallas: -4.2%
Tokyo: -4.2%
Houston: -4.4%
Madrid: -4.4%
New York: -5.1%
Los Angeles: -8.9%
London: -9.0%
Chicago: -11.7%

Of course to be fair in terms of international comparisons, you'd also have to add the long-distance traffic of high speed trains which would significantly increase the figures for Tokyo, Paris, Osaka, and to a lesser extent London, Madrid, Seoul.


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## Federicoft (Sep 26, 2005)

According to the Ebtl, the tourist office of the Rome region, Rome had 11.405.000 arrivals and 28.529.000 stays in 2011, which is an all-time record. 

http://roma.repubblica.it/cronaca/2011/12/28/news/turismo-27306507/

It should be noted that on top of them there are up to 6 million tourists each year staying in Vatican accomodations which aren't counted in official statistics.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Sarcasticity said:


> Can we have the source for this? I want to see if they made mention of other cities outside the top 25


I posted from this thread, post #145:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1298933&page=6


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

Dr_Cosmo said:


> That is not a tourism related figure.
> *
> Berlin 2011* Source
> 
> ...


For comparison, in 2010 Greater Paris had:
65.8 million overnight hotel guests (in registered hotels)
31.7 million hotel guests (41.8% international visitors) (in registered hotels)
2,342 registered hotels with 150,166 bedrooms (I don't know how that is comparable with the number of beds)
17 billion € spent by tourists (a very rough estimate)


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