# The best country in Europe to drive on motorways



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

seem said:


> I actually don't like how many towns they put on signs.


I agree, but it's mostly on distance signs, not on signs at important decisive points (such as interchanges).


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## x-type (Aug 19, 2005)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Signage is also pretty high-standard (one of the best in eastern / southern Europe).


khm









i agree about driving habbits there, but each time i go there it is a bit too crowded. the best thing in Slovenia is their feeling for adapting motorways into nature. they simply looks like they must be there to make scenery better. that's really rare imo.


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## csd (Oct 28, 2009)

I would have to say France too. The tolls are expensive but the quality is first-rate: good signage, aires every 10 km, decent services every 50 - 60 km, hardly any congestion, and a pretty extensive network.

Slovenia or Switzerland would be second in my opinion. Germany isn't bad, but as others have said, far too many trucks and usually quite congested.

My least favourites would be Italy (ugly signage, mad drivers), Spain (see Italy), and Belgium (awful drivers, awful signage). Austrian signage is pretty ugly too, but the mountain views make up for it 

/csd


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## devo (Jun 24, 2011)

Call me mad but I'm throwing in a vote for the British Motorway Network. Yes, it's congested and to small today, but the quality of the roads themself (curvature and elevations) is superb. And it's mostly three-lane, even in remote locations like some places on the M6 and A74(M). And toll-free (except the M6 Toll and some bridges).

Considering the condition of british roads before the M'way, and the transition and quality they had from day one is impressive, but as mentioned earlier, the network could do well with many more new connections.

Denmark is on a respectable second place. They follow the same, calm, slip-road strategy that don't throw you out of the car when you make an exit, like many places in Norway.


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## Falubaz (Nov 20, 2004)

Germany should be the best one. Nice coverage, no speed limit, good pavement, no tools, plenty of resting areas.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

I was thinking about discipline today, during my trip München-Heidelberg. After 30k km driven in Germany in less than 1 year, I made up my mind:

-Germans go fast. I mean, really fast. Overall they behave quite well, but a bit too often you find the moron (today a guy was repeatedly trying to overtake me on a 1-lane motorway ramp...);
-Dutch behave, mostly because 90% of them tow a trailer so they can't afford high speeds  Seriously, I find their style of driving quite "German" but overall they behave better.
-French. I was about to say that I'm surprised on how well French drive, when I experienced the worst case of tailgating ever: this Frenchmen came literally - I mean, literally - at centimeters from my car's back. Had I touch the brake, or even just leave the accelerator pedal, we would end up crashing. So no good vote for Frenchmen, due to this one moron.
- Austrian. They drive "German style" but worse. Maybe they're frustrated by their ridiculously low speed limits and tend to discharge their frustration abroad.
- Swiss. Worst of all. They run, they run, they run like there's no tomorrow.
-Polish, Romanians, Czechs. Quite good overall. 
- Italians, Spanish, others. Too few to have statistical relevance. 

About the motorways, I only know directly 4 countries, so I'm gonna choose over these four. 
I like Italian motorways better:the grid is not very extended so queues are frequent, but quality of the pavement is generally excellent, and so are aligments, curves and slopes
In second position, Germany. The grid is huge, but the pavement is usually bad. I like the connections between different motorways, but I don't like the exits. They're free, and this is good, but slopes are too high.
Third, Swiss. I don't like very much the classification of "motorway" for A13, which is at best a good country road, but the others are well mantained and nice to drive.
Fourth, Austrian. Bad pavement, low speed limits, bad maintenance (this winter I didn't see a single snowplough, even with blizzards on). Their Brennerautobahn is no match for the Italian counterpart.

My :2cents:


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

When you mean low speed limits on Austrian autobahn, you mean 100 km/h stretches?


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## bogdymol (Feb 4, 2010)

g.spinoza said:


> -Polish, *Romanians*, Czechs. Quite good overall.


Thank you  Romanians drive quite well, but only after passing the border. They have a high fewar of very high fines in western europe, so they drive like angels. But this is not valid when they drive in their own country... hno:

Anyway, one of the motorways I love most is A23 in Italy (just go with Google Street View on it :bow.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

LtBk said:


> When you mean low speed limits on Austrian autobahn, you mean 100 km/h stretches?


Most annoying are 60 km/h limits during road works (sometimes it's justified, but yesterday I passed through a work zone with A) nobody at work, B) full lane width was available and C) a full shoulder was available as well). Another annoying feature are the 80 km/h speed limits in tunnels. There's really no need for that, especially in newer tunnels, where 100 would be perfectly comfortable. Some tunnels could even have a 120 km/h speed limit if they have a continuous shoulder. The Czech Republic has the same issue by the way.


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## bogdymol (Feb 4, 2010)

^^ A23-Italy dosen't have different speed limits in the tunnels :banana:


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

What annoys me in Austria on the A12 in Tirol is the IG-L 100 km/h limits. At times it's activated due to the enviroment. Such a drag if you're traveling from Innsbruck to Kufstein.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

LtBk said:


> When you mean low speed limits on Austrian autobahn, you mean 100 km/h stretches?


Yes, of course. The Inntalautobahn east of Innsbruck is almost entirely 100 km/h-limited. It makes no sense.



bogdymol said:


> Thank you  Romanians drive quite well, but only after passing the border. They have a high fewar of very high fines in western europe, so they drive like angels. But this is not valid when they drive in their own country... hno:


I suspected this as well, Italians also seem lambs abroad and devils in Italy...



bogdymol said:


> ^^ A23-Italy dosen't have different speed limits in the tunnels :banana:


In Italy no motorway tunnel has different speed limit, as far as I recall. Not even the 10-km Gran Sasso one.


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## Belgrader (Feb 1, 2010)

I would say Spain, Germany and Slovenia (although Slovenian motorway network is not big, but it's very good, and very well maintained).


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## Uppsala (Feb 26, 2010)

^^
I don't like the signs in Spain. I think the signs at the motorways in Spain are awful. 

But I like the motorways in Germany. Very good motorway network and very good signs. I think most Germans driving quite good too, a little bit aggressive but good. Slovenia has good motorways too.

Another I like is Luxembourg. A small country but good motorways.

And I like the UK. I think they are very good. And I think the signs in the UK is good too.


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## hofburg (Jun 27, 2009)

Road_UK said:


> What annoys me in Austria on the A12 in Tirol is the IG-L 100 km/h limits. At times it's activated due to the enviroment. Such a drag if you're traveling from Innsbruck to Kufstein.http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/Verkehrsbeeinflussungsanlage-IG-L-100_2073a.JPG


I saw that on A10 as well. What does that mean?


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

^^ "Immissionsschutzgesetz-Luft" (Air Pollution Control Act)


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

g.spinoza said:


> In Italy no motorway tunnel has different speed limit, as far as I recall. Not even the 10-km Gran Sasso one.


The first 4 or 5 tunnels coming out of the Mont Blanc heading towards Turin are limited to resp. 80 and 100 km/h.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

^^ That's odd, partly because they are new (built between 2000 and 2007).


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

I never take any notice of these limits, nor does anybody else. Not even the Polizia Stradale seem to care.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

g.spinoza said:


> ^^ "Immissionsschutzgesetz-Luft" (Air Pollution Control Act)


Populist politics. The reduced concentrations are within the margin of error. They did an (police-enforced) trial with this in the Netherlands, lowering the speed limit from 120 to 80 km/h. The emissions from road traffic were lowered by 4,4 µg/m³ for NOx and 0,6 µg/m³ for PM10 (the concentration limits for these pollutants are 40,0 µg/m³). The actual concentrations of those pollutants reduced far less than this, as traffic is only one emission source of all pollutants in a certain region. 

Politicians often seem to forget the difference between road traffic emissions and concentrations of pollutants. They are not the same. Emissions add to the concentration, but 10% less emissions is by far not the same as 10% less concentration.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

Sorry I ask too much, but two questions:
1.Which stretches are 130 km/h?
2.Are the police strict on enforcing the 100 km/h stretches?


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

The entire A12 with exception of the stretch through Innsbruck and some tunnels are 130. But at times, especially at weekends when there is high volumes of traffic they reduce these limits to 100 to reduce emission. That is called IG-L. These speed reductions always come when I'm in a hurry. Sometimes these limits apply all the way from Kufstein to Innsbruck, at other times from Kufstein to exit Zillertal only. At night speedlimits is 110 at all times to reduce noise.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

^^ Are you sure Road_UK? Every time I drove the A12 I found 100 almost all the way from Innsbruck to Kufstein, no matter when (on weekdays, on weekends with no one on the road...) I thought it was a permanent limit there.


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

I'm sure, I live near there. I think you were just unlucky, 130 is permitted when the IG-L isn't on. It also depends on the weather I guess.


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## Angelos (Dec 20, 2006)

Everything posted above is personal experience.

Definitely France. Excellent pavement, congestion-free, nature and good drivers which sometimse want to have some fun which i like it a lot.

Second comes Germany, they tend to follow the speedlimits but whenever you see the Godsign which indicates NO LIMIT everyone pushes the pedal to the metal  I remember once a opel corsa opc tried to race us but we didnt. Anyway the feeling you get on the autobahns is unique! its like driving on Nurbuering, Audis, Porches, BMWs and whenever is legal they tend to go as fast as 200 km/h which many Germans do.

3rd position : Italians and Greeks, exatcly the same type of driving, careless , tailgating, no obeying speed limit at all, everyone tries to race you but that makes a hell of driving experience dangerous it may be... but fun!

4rth: Dutch Congested,e everyone drives like a granny, everyone follows the rules, speed cameras everywhere, no bendy motorways - roads too booooring 

5th: UK, Every Motorway is congested unless you go to Scotland  I was living in London for 2 years where i had a very baaaaaaaad experience with the roads there. Just look the Motorway network of London and Paris its day and night.


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## gmacruyff (Oct 16, 2010)

For scenery,you cant beat Norway.Go from Bergen to Molde to Trondheim.Then,the next day from Trondheim,south towards Oslo...WORLD CLASS.Plus the roads are never busy(expect goiong in to Oslo).


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## hofburg (Jun 27, 2009)

g.spinoza said:


> ^^ Are you sure Road_UK? Every time I drove the A12 I found 100 almost all the way from Innsbruck to Kufstein, no matter when (on weekdays, on weekends with no one on the road...) I thought it was a permanent limit there.


the same goes for the stretch near Salzburg A10. every time I drive there, there's a IG-L speedlimit. Am I always unlucky too? 



Angelos said:


> 5th: UK, Every Motorway is congested unless you go to Scotland  I was living in London for 2 years where i had a very baaaaaaaad experience with the roads there. Just look the Motorway network of London and Paris its day and night.


Paris isn't perfect either. There is a permanent congestion on some sections of A86 and there are quite a few missing links. One of major problems in Paris are also roadworks. they are present all the time, and they are usually the main cause for congestions.


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

Road_UK said:


> The entire A12 with exception of the stretch through Innsbruck and some tunnels are 130. But at times, especially at weekends when there is high volumes of traffic they reduce these limits to 100 to reduce emission. That is called IG-L. These speed reductions always come when I'm in a hurry. Sometimes these limits apply all the way from Kufstein to Innsbruck, at other times from Kufstein to exit Zillertal only. At night speedlimits is 110 at all times to reduce noise.


That's 'cause they know your schedule and are trying to annoy you. :cheers:


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## seb.nl (Jan 29, 2010)

Crossed both france, Italy and Germany by car a couple of times (france more than 20 time actually...)
Think that French roads are the best by far. Yes you pay tol, but for that you get perfect uniform road /
city / km signs, good asphalt, nice resting places, well lighted wide lanes and so on.

Germany is quite good too, but the "suggested max speed" makes you need to look in the rearview mirror
as much as the road in front of you. (my peugeot doesnt do 250 that well :nuts

Italy would be nice if there weren't any Italian people driving overthere, everybody is using their phone in
some way instead of paying attention to the road 

I'm from the Netherlands and need to cross Belgium for most of my European trips. Yes, the Belgian roads... :gaah: 

As for our roads, they're great, but crowded. And trafic rules are too strict to actually enjoy driving...


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

Penn's Woods said:


> That's 'cause they know your schedule and are trying to annoy you. :cheers:


That's right. By the way, G, you will always get away doing 110 when IG-L 100 is lit. Drive any faster then that, and radar and unmarked police cars will get you, and when they do it's on the spot fines even for local Austrians. When limits are 130 it's ok to do 140.


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## hofburg (Jun 27, 2009)

^many Austrians drive like that.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Road_UK said:


> That's right. By the way, G, you will always get away doing 110 when IG-L 100 is lit. Drive any faster then that, and radar and unmarked police cars will get you, and when they do it's on the spot fines even for local Austrians. When limits are 130 it's ok to do 140.


So I have been lucky... there's no way I did 100. Ever.


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

Yes, and many drive dead slow. Austrians are as diverse as Europeans.


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

g.spinoza said:


> So I have been lucky... there's no way I did 100. Ever.


I normally don't.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

Any chance of IG-L being provoked in the near future?


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

I haven't driven on all EU motorways (never been to Spain, Portugal, Czech Republic and some other locations) but *Germany* must take the cake here from what I have seen and driven on. 

- no tolls, total freedom to drive as much as you want, wherever you want (this is the reason I wouldn't vote for France)
- not too busy (some Autobahns can be pretty empty in places)
- liberal attitude to speed limits
- disciplined drivers

I just feel safer and more comfortable while driving in Germany despite driving considerably faster than elsewhere.


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## shpirtkosova (Jun 7, 2009)

I think this thread is unfair to the countries who have no transit traffic due to location of the country such as the Great Britain, Ireland, Iceland and etc.... Hungary in my opinion has the best motorways I have ever seen. I know I voted for Albania but that was purerly on the scenery you get whilst you travel towards Kosovo.


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

I don't understand where this myth is coming from that Germans are disclipined drivers. They're not. At least someone on this thread tried to contradict me by stating that he/she watched plenty of youtube video's of German autobahns.
I'm delighted to find that many share my opinion that France is -in fact- the best country to drive in. I even think it comes out as the winner...


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## bogdymol (Feb 4, 2010)

I was on French motorways only in Paris region and driving in that area is definately not the best experience  But I can't say anything about rest of France because I haven't been there...


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## Angelos (Dec 20, 2006)

[QUOTE
Paris isn't perfect either. There is a permanent congestion on some sections of A86 and there are quite a few missing links. One of major problems in Paris are also roadworks. they are present all the time, and they are usually the main cause for congestions.[/QUOTE]

London has far worst motorway network than paris, and i have seen that with my own eyes.I remember once when i was returning from Paris driving towards home on a Sunday night i was driving at the M25 Anticlockwise near junction 20 where they had roadwoarks and i was caught in 10 minute delay in 23:30 in the night :S

Yes both are congested but at least in Paris you have more options than London where they have only M25. The motorway network for such a large metropolis and economic center imo is ridiculous


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## x-type (Aug 19, 2005)

g.spinoza said:


> Ehe thanks. I'm not the type of guy who defends his own country no matter what, in Italy there are many more things that do not work than things that work. For instance, having driven the really wonderful Bundesstraßen here in Germany, I can say that the Italian equivalents (Strade Statali) are really no match: old, narrow, patchy.
> But motorways in Italy are superior to those in Germany, they can have defects but maintenance is not one of them.


exactly that!


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## Jeroen669 (Nov 29, 2006)

You're right, I was too much thinking of Italy in general instead of the (tolled) motorways.


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

I agree aswell!


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

Jeroen669 said:


> You're right, I was too much thinking of Italy in general instead of the (tolled) motorways.


I don't think the secondary roads are all that bad. Especially if you compare them with Belgium.


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## poshbakerloo (Jan 16, 2007)

seem said:


> Who has got the best maintained motorways guys? The worst maintained network I have ever seen is British.


Erm, I have to disagree.
The motorway surface is always in good condition. Lighting is urban areas is of good quality...


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

No it's not always in good condition. You've obviously never driven on the M11, M20, M5, M42...


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## x-type (Aug 19, 2005)

Road_UK said:


> I don't think the secondary roads are all that bad. Especially if you compare them with Belgium.


well they are not that bad. but you can find potholes sometimes. actually, the worst Italian road i ahve driven was an expressway E45 (does that road have some other number except E?) between Perugia and Orte.


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

g.spinoza said:


> Ehe thanks. I'm not the type of guy who defends his own country no matter what, in Italy there are many more things that do not work than things that work. For instance, having driven the really wonderful Bundesstraßen here in Germany, I can say that the Italian equivalents (Strade Statali) are really no match: old, narrow, patchy.
> But motorways in Italy are superior to those in Germany, they can have defects but maintenance is not one of them.


Here's a joke from a Top Gear rerun I was watching yesterday (one of the hosts was driving from Portofino to Saint-Tropez, the other going by speedboat). The guy on the boat asks his co-pilot, "how do we know when we're in France - the seas get rougher, like the roads?"


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

Road_UK said:


> I don't think the secondary roads are all that bad. Especially if you compare them with Belgium.


You're not a fan of Belgium, are you?

:cheers:


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Switzerland is somewhat overrated. There are quite a few sections with mediocre, or even deteriorated pavement.


A question I've been meaning to ask: any guess as to why Jeremy Clarkson (yes, I watch too many Top Gear reruns - it's as close to driving in Europe as I'm going to get in the near future) keeps referring to "car-hating Switzerland"?


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Switzerland is really a country with two sides. On one hand they want to restrict traffic as much as possible (see Gotthard Tunnel issues), there are whole villages inaccessible by car and speed limits are rather low. On the other hand, parking fees are not really that high except for a few cities and fuel is cheap(er) too. Don't know about the car taxes, that could vary by canton (state).


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

I don't mind Belgium as a country, and the people are friendly enough, and the food is great, but when it comes to driving, they are really lacking behind in many ways. Even a lot of countries in Eastern Europe are now starting to overtake Belgium when it comes to quality of roads. Yet, Belgium has good lane discipline. Double standards if you ask me...


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## gmacruyff (Oct 16, 2010)

The drive from St Moritz,down to Italy,can be dangerous and i cant imagine attempting it in winter,but the scenary is superb.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

x-type said:


> well they are not that bad. but you can find potholes sometimes. actually, the worst Italian road i ahve driven was an expressway E45 (does that road have some other number except E?) between Perugia and Orte.


Yes, it's SS3bis. 
Italy seriously need SS renumbering.


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## ea1969 (Oct 6, 2007)

More than 100 posts and no-one referred to the so-called "Strumatic Experience" 

Anyway, I prefer France and Switzerland as far as regarding the places I have any experience and from the pictures I have seen here, it seems that Hungary is on the right direction.


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## koolduct (Mar 28, 2006)

Road_UK said:


> No it's not always in good condition. You've obviously never driven on the M11, M20, M5, M42...


Having just driven from London to Reims I must say it's hard to find more annoying motorway than M20. Pavement is such a horrible noisy concrete. Generally British surface is more noisy than European (wet weather being the main reason I presume) but this one was a real shocker.

Edit: Actually, "real shocker" might be too strong an expression for M20. A real shocker (in terms of surface) was what I experienced on motorway in Los Angeles.


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## seem (Jun 15, 2008)

ea1969 said:


> it seems that Hungary is on the right direction.


I like their motorway but I really hate their signage, I hope it will get better, it is just so confusing and complitated.


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## Thermo (Oct 25, 2005)

Road_UK said:


> I don't mind Belgium as a country, and the people are friendly enough, and the food is great, but when it comes to driving, they are really lacking behind in many ways. Even a lot of countries in Eastern Europe are now starting to overtake Belgium when it comes to quality of roads. Yet, Belgium has good lane discipline. Double standards if you ask me...


But you're always ignoring we're working hard to catch up... The budget for road maintenance/renovation has more than tripled in the last year (and will stay at the same level in the coming years), both in Flanders and Wallonia.

This summer, practically everywhere they were working on the roads...


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

I remember when driving via E17 and/or E37 in Belgium (can't remember exactly now which part it was) in 2010 I was rather shocked by the apalling quality of the pavement. Such a massive contrast before entering NL. Are roads really all that bad in Belgium or is it just some stretches?


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## Thermo (Oct 25, 2005)

Pansori said:


> I remember when driving via E17 and/or E37 in Belgium (can't remember exactly now which part it was) in 2010 I was rather shocked by the apalling quality of the pavement. Such a massive contrast before entering NL. Are roads really all that bad in Belgium or is it just some stretches?


No, they're not all that bad. 

Large parts of the E17 are being renovated this summer.


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

^^Now, now. Play nice, boys.


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

It's all my fault! Boohoohoo!


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

adeiush said:


> Last month I drove from Dresden to Hamburg and it was awful - there are many speed restrictions some as low as 90 km/h, the road was under repairs, bad drivers, bad signage (I missed some exits because of that). So the German Autobahns are far from being the best in Europe.


Even if all Autobahns had work, the worst was my trip between Bremen and Hamburg. 
We hardly could run at more than 100km/h and there were many sections with a limit speed of 60km/h.


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## BND (May 31, 2007)

adeiush said:


> best: France, Spain and Hungary (it has the best signage in Europe kay


Strange that some people find the Hungarian signage great, while others list it among the worst


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## sotavento (May 12, 2005)

Best:

1- portuguese (toll motorways aka brisa)
2- german (3x2 autobahns)
3- hungary


Worst:

1- austrian
2- spanish 
3- german (2x2)


Just my 2 cents. :cheers:


Brisa motorways:


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## flierfy (Mar 4, 2008)

sotavento said:


> Best:
> 2- german (3x2 autobahns)
> 
> Worst:
> 3- german (2x2)


You can't have seen too many german motorways then. The width of a road is no indication of quality. Neither in Germany nor anywhere else. Some of the best parts of the german motorway network are 4 lanes wide (A 4 Köln - Olpe) while some 6 lane stretches are rather dreadful (A 7 Kassel - Kirchheim).


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## Trilesy (Dec 26, 2007)

Penn's Woods said:


> I don't know. There was an awful lot of left-lane hogging when I was in Cincinnati a month or so ago. I know it's risky to generalize from one visit but it was really striking. I'm thinking in particular of the east side of 275.
> 
> Also, it should be noted that using a cell phone while driving is being made illegal in more and more places.


I actually live on the east side of I-275 and use it to go to work every day. I agree that there are too many dumb drivers doing 65 mph or less in the left lane. They will usually move, but you have to wait 10-60 seconds until their brain starts to think, so I normally don't even wait and pass them on the right.


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## Nima-Farid (Jul 13, 2010)

flierfy said:


> You can't have seen too many german motorways then. The width of a road is no indication of quality. Neither in Germany nor anywhere else. Some of the best parts of the german motorway network are 4 lanes wide (A 4 Köln - Olpe) while some 6 lane stretches are rather dreadful (A 7 Kassel - Kirchheim).


I agree! In here (Iran) Tehran Qom FW (FW 7) is very bumpy but it has 6 lanes but for exampleYasuj Sepidan road (Rd 67) has only 2 lanes not devided but it is very smooth!


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## CNGL (Jun 10, 2010)

sotavento said:


> Worst:
> 
> 2- spanish


I believe you have driven only on the 1st generation autovías, because more recent autovías are really really good.


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## Man.Utd (Dec 19, 2011)

The worst in my opinion is Austria too much tunnels, some ridiculous speed limit and also sometimes dangerous especially at night in mountains etc.. Not too much rest area and not to forget to pay the vignette and for who's already gone in Slovenia via Villach must pay Karawankenktunnel ... it's awful !

The best : German autobahns of course


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## GROBIN (Feb 27, 2011)

From best to worst (motorways only ! Not expressways !) : 
1) *Germany*: especially the A2, with a lot of sections without speed limit. I dislike very much the A4 though. But what I like most in Germany is the system itself: when you’ve got a speed limit (temporary or permanent), it’s never without any reason.
2) *Poland*: only worse than Germany because of the presence of speed limits on stretches where it is absurd. Driving 140km/h on the smooth & straight A2 is really boring - I drive much faster of course  . Moreover, they're not free. BUT when there’s a lower speed limit like on the A4 between Krzyżowa and Wrocław 110 km/h, there’s always a reason)
3) *Luxembourg*
4) *Spain* (I especially love the sharp curves in the Basque country & between Zaragoza and Madrid  You could hardly get annoyed, even abiding by the 120 speed limit :lol: )
5) *The United Kingdom*: wide motorways. The only I dislike is the M25 because of the (fake or real) speed cameras everywhere. M20, M2 & M1 were quite nice to drive (although sometimes, the hard shoulder wasn’t really big). The asphalt is not of a great quality, but at least you can drive more relaxed than in my country, France (not so many speed traps)
6) *The Czech Republic*: nice motorways, but a bit of police.
7) *France*: nice motorways, but police & gendarmerie with speed traps everywhere, which makes it impossible to drive relaxed & fully concentrated on the motorway itself. Near bigger cities no lane discipline & quite aggressive people. And VERY expensive
8) *Slovakia*: (police with speed traps or controlling anything else everywhere. Same problem as in France, but with shorter sections)
9) *The Netherlands* - quite nice motorways, but a 120km/h limit with 3 km/h tolerance. Horrible
10) *Belgium* - because of the lack of maintenance of the asphalt & of the fact they turned off their lights during the night & there's almost no reflective marking. Also the regionalistic roadsigns, that reflect Belgian internal linguistic issues instead of helping travelers. Pity because apart of that, I drive far more relaxed on Belgian motorways than on French or Dutch ones.


I didn't count these countries, although I’ve been there:
- *Finland* (haven't been there since 2003. The motorways were nice, but the driving was quite boring. 120km/h with almost no people between Helsinki & Lahti. More crowded between Porvoo and Helsinki), 
- *Lithuania* (haven't driven there since 2004 & heard there were some significant changes, that would place this country a bit better nowadays in my ranking  At the time you had a lot of very dangerous U-turns & a lot of police, which was necessary here though – under these circumstances, the 130km/h was more than enough.), 
- *Ukraine* (the only motorway section I've been on is Kyiv-Boryspil' - very nice, but too short to tell)
- *Austria* & *Italy* (didn't drive there. Only been a passenger)
- *Hungary* (haven’t tried Magyar autopalyák yet  Only roads)
- *Andorra*, *Latvia*, *Estonia*, *Monaco* (lack of real motorways)


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## ElviS77 (Aug 3, 2007)

When it comes to motorway driving, Norway is no fun at all. The speed limits are too low (80-100 kph), but it doesn't help that a considerable percentage still do 120-130 (generally unchecked, btw, the motorways aren't particular highway police territory) and a similar percentage do 80 or 90. This cause quite a few interesting situations, particularly when combined with lack of lane discipline and tailgating. Also, some sections are busier than you'd expect. Altogether, not a very pleasant driving experience. Turn off the motorways, though, and things improve somewhat. The roads aren't particularly good, of course, but drivers behave more according to road quality. Thus, as long as you don't insist on serious speeding or expect to overtake slower-moving traffic everywhere, you're in for a decent drive.

Other motorways? I like the German ones in a proper car, France's and Spain's are great, I like the British, Danish and Dutch as well. I think Austrian are a bit of a hassle, but that might just be because I've only driven the busy 2x2 ones. Belgian are so and so, Swedish and Greek generally good.


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## alexQ (Nov 12, 2009)

For me the best ones:
1 Italy-impecable asphalt quality on the toll motorways,very nice markings on the road and good signage in my opinion,nice viaducts and tunnels and also nice parkings.
2 France -the best parkings i've ever seen ,very nicely maintained green spaces,good asphalt quality but rather bad signage
3 Croatia - breathtaking views,nice tunnels and viaducts and overall good quality asphalt
The "not so good ones":
Slovakia-only driven on the stretch that goes from HU border to CZ border
Czech Republic between Brno and Prague 
Serbia 
Bulgaria 
Macedonia( the worst)


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## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

The best country to drive on motorways, in my opinion, are:

1) France - good pavement quality, reasonable speed limit, relaxed driving style, *excellent rest stops*. The drawback is tolls and somewhat clumsy signage.
2) Germany - good pavement quality, reasonable/absence of speed limit, well-disciplined and efficient driving style, very clear signage. Rest stops, however, suck big time.

I really enjoyed driving on French autoroutes - people don't race each other, and it does not seem like everybody is trying to make for some important event on-time. German driving style is a bit too assertive for me. At the same time, neither country has the total lack of discipline that the USA does.


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## GROBIN (Feb 27, 2011)

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> The best country to drive on motorways, in my opinion, are:
> 
> 1) France - good pavement quality, reasonable speed limit, relaxed driving style, *excellent rest stops*. The drawback is tolls and somewhat clumsy signage.
> 2) Germany - good pavement quality, reasonable/absence of speed limit, well-disciplined and efficient driving style, very clear signage. Rest stops, however, suck big time.
> ...


You're right to point out the good rest stops in France (but very expensive) ! On the Polish A2 and recently on A4, they're very nice too ! Especially if you've got kids - you have playgrounds for them 

In Germany and Belgium, what I like in those rest areas: less expensive than in France (especially in Eastern Germany - the Cottbus region). But the Dutch areas - although they're clean - suck big time: too close to the motorway !

The most "folkloristic" rest areas I've been to were in Spain, on the autovías A-23 and A-2 between Huesca and Madrid :lol: (and one on the Polish A4 not far from Legnica) but at least the food was very good and cheap (whereas in France it's expensive and the quality can vary a lot). You must be VERY careful on French rest areas without any cameras (that is: no restaurant & no gas station). Especially at night.

I haven't really tried other European countries' rest areas (being in only one in each country doesn't count  )

P.S.: I drove in the US over 2 years ago, in Texas. Driving there is APALLINGLY boring. & if you drive an automatic car, it's even worse...


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## seem (Jun 15, 2008)

alexQ said:


> The "not so good ones":
> Slovakia-only driven on the stretch that goes from HU border to CZ border
> Czech Republic between Brno and Prague


These two motorways are the worst ones in both countries, you were lucky tho.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Now that I've driven in Spain too (5000 km in 12 days) I think there are really 2 souls in its roads. There are some magnificent stretches, like the A-92 (excellent road in an excellent landscape, and absolutely empty); on the other hand there are some bad jokes like the A-4 between Bailèn and Manzanares. It is probably the worst motorway I've ever seen.


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## GROBIN (Feb 27, 2011)

seem said:


> These two motorways are the worst ones in both countries, you were lucky tho.


How do you regard D1 Prešov - Košice ?


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## seem (Jun 15, 2008)

^^ I haven't been there for many years :nuts: as I usually don't travel to the Eastern part of the country but I think that on Slovak SSC guys from Kosice mentioned it's quite alright now, as I remember it was quite horrible some 5 years ago (last time I went to Košice by car). However also D2 Bratislava - CZ border got much better as it used to be.


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## shpirtkosova (Jun 7, 2009)

I think the motorways are worse in serbia in general than in FYROM.


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## Man.Utd (Dec 19, 2011)

shpirtkosova said:


> I think the motorways are worse in serbia in general than in FYROM.


Not wrong at all i mean in Rep of Macedonia they worked and still working to improve roads like the new ring in Skopje but in Serbia same thing since long time same highway from Belgrade to Nis and still a regional road from Leskovac to Presevo


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## wojnowianin (Feb 25, 2010)

IMHO it should go to Turkey. Why?

- all 2x3, 2x4 and 2x5 profile 
- very cheap
- not congested
- spectacular views, especially Black Sea motorway
- very good quality, even on old sections 
- great signage

Only think you can really dislike is rather low density of rest areas.


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

wojnowianin said:


> IMHO it should go to Turkey. Why?
> 
> - all 2x3, 2x4 and 2x5 profile
> - very cheap
> ...


Is the Google maps correct on Turkish motorways? If so... well... there almost aren't any (for a country this size).


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## GRAZVYDAS LITHUANIA (Dec 21, 2011)

The best one? Lithuania of course!:cheers: We Lithuanians have the best roads in Europe. Some of them are even paved.


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## Elmo (Feb 5, 2003)

GROBIN said:


> 9) *The Netherlands* - quite nice motorways, but a 120km/h limit with 3 km/h tolerance. Horrible


Not true. The tolerance at 120km/h is around 127 or 128 (at 130 it is 139).


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## Elmo (Feb 5, 2003)

wojnowianin said:


> IMHO it should go to Turkey. Why?
> 
> - all 2x3, 2x4 and 2x5 profile


That's because Turks use a 2x2 motorway as if it is a 2x5 motorway. :lol:


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## seem (Jun 15, 2008)

Elmo said:


> That's because Turks use a 2x2 motorway as if it is a 2x5 motorway. :lol:


Lol this is actually true . I remeber when I was in Istanbul about 3 years ago, people were driving in 3 lanes on 2x2 road. :nuts:


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## alexQ (Nov 12, 2009)

seem said:


> These two motorways are the worst ones in both countries, you were lucky tho.


In the Czech Republic i drove also on the motorway that links Prague with Dresden which was in a very good shape .As for Slovakia I watched pictures and i know that you have good motorways with lovely scenery too.


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## shpirtkosova (Jun 7, 2009)

I think we can all safely say that Montenegro and Moldova are the worst countries to drive on motorways because they have no motorways.


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## Ingenioren (Jan 18, 2008)

Neither Iceland, Monaco, Vatican, Liechtenstein, Andorra, San Marino, Latvia or Estonia...


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## Orionol (Feb 13, 2009)

*The best motorway i have driven on in Europe is:*

1. Poland (I have only driven on A4 [Wroclaw - Krakow], A6 [Szczecin - German border] and S3 [Szczecin - Gorzow]. I dont really know if S3 is a motorway, due to the different name but when i drove on that road, it had the same shape as a motorway. No tolls, just only between Katowice and Krakow on the A4. Very nice view on A6. All of them are comfortable. Most modern motorways in Europe. I believe).

2. Germany (Driven on 19 [Rostock - Wittstock/Dosse], 24 [Wittstock/Dosse - Berlin], 11 [Panketal - Polish Border]. Very nice roads, no tolls at all and good quallity. Well what more can I say? Autobahn is one of the most well-known roads in the world).

3. Sweden (Driven on the E4 [Helsingborg - Stockholm], E6 [Malmö - Göteborg], E22 and E65. Good road, no toll at all, very nice view but the roads are a bit old and some point they are boring to drive on. Otherwise they are okey).


*The worst motorway i have driven on in Europe is:*

1. Montenegro (No motorway at all).

2. Serbia (Driven on E75 [Hungarian border - Belgrad]. Very bad quallity, bad shape and when I drove on that road, I was so afraid that my car would break down).

3. Cyprus (Driven on A3 [Larnaka - Protaras]. Well to be honest, Cyprus do have very good motorway, but the only problem is that it occur idiots on the road. They drive wreckless and stupid. Minumum speed-limit is 160 in their head! But the view of the road is beautiful, I love does flowers along the roadside).


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## Tauernautobahn (Mar 11, 2008)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Most annoying are 60 km/h limits during road works (sometimes it's justified, but yesterday I passed through a work zone with A) nobody at work, B) full lane width was available and C) a full shoulder was available as well). Another annoying feature are the 80 km/h speed limits in tunnels. There's really no need for that, especially in newer tunnels, where 100 would be perfectly comfortable. Some tunnels could even have a 120 km/h speed limit if they have a continuous shoulder. The Czech Republic has the same issue by the way.


I know my answer is quite late but tunnel speed limit in Austria is 100 and not 80 km/h


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## Tauernautobahn (Mar 11, 2008)

and by the way the motorways I like most are the Croatian and Slovenian ones, both have very good surfaces, a superb signage and beautiful scenery


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## GROBIN (Feb 27, 2011)

Orionol said:


> *The best motorway i have driven on in Europe is:*
> 
> 1. Poland (I have only driven on A4 [Wroclaw - Krakow], A6 [Szczecin - German border] and S3 [Szczecin - Gorzow]. I dont really know if S3 is a motorway, due to the different name but when i drove on that road, it had the same shape as a motorway. No tolls, just only between Katowice and Krakow on the A4. Very nice view on A6. All of them are comfortable. Most modern motorways in Europe. I believe).
> 
> (...)


I agree with you ! They're pleasant to drive even during heavy rain ! The only two reasons why they're not first in my classification are:
- speed limit (140 km/h), whereas in Germany there's no default speed limit.
- tolls (none in Germany, more & more of them in Poland)



Orionol said:


> *The worst motorway i have driven on in Europe is:*
> (...)
> 
> 2. Serbia (Driven on E75 [Hungarian border - Belgrad]. Very bad quallity, bad shape and when I drove on that road, I was so afraid that my car would break down).
> 3. Cyprus (Driven on A3 [Larnaka - Protaras]. Well to be honest, Cyprus do have very good motorway, but the only problem is that it occur idiots on the road. They drive wreckless and stupid. Minumum speed-limit is 160 in their head! But the view of the road is beautiful, I love does flowers along the roadside).


SRB: why? Potholes ? Track formation ? Or what exactly ?
CY: :lol: Flowers ready for suicidal drivers ? :lol:


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## Orionol (Feb 13, 2009)

GROBIN said:


> I agree with you ! They're pleasant to drive even during heavy rain ! The only two reasons why they're not first in my classification are:
> - speed limit (140 km/h), whereas in Germany there's no default speed limit.
> - tolls (none in Germany, more & more of them in Poland)
> 
> ...



Yea I agree with you, about the polish and german roads. :banana: 

SRB: POTHOLES!!!!, so many of them. You won't believe it. If that road exist in Sweden, they would forbid driving on that road.:dunno:
CY: Haha perhaps that. But the local said that the flowers are poisoned and keeps animals away from the motorway.:nuts:


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## mediar (Dec 13, 2008)

Orionol said:


> SRB: POTHOLES!!!!, so many of them. You won't believe it. If that road exist in Sweden, they would forbid driving on that road.:dunno:


Really? C'mon, it's not that bad, especially the part between Belgrade and the Croatian border. It's worse between Belgrade and Nish, but still acceptable compared to the Bulgarian motorways. In that case, you should never ever drive on a Bulgarian motorway, except the newly-opened sections.


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## Orionol (Feb 13, 2009)

mediar said:


> Really? C'mon, it's not that bad, especially the part between Belgrade and the Croatian border. It's worse between Belgrade and Nish, but still acceptable compared to the Bulgarian motorways. In that case, you should never ever drive on a Bulgarian motorway, except the newly-opened sections.



Sorry mate, can't judge Bulgarian motorway, because never been to Bulgaria. But I would really like to travel and visit Varna or Burgas. 

Well, Serbian motorway isn't that bad, but they are definitely the worse I have ever seen and they do have a lot of potholes on them. It's good that they have motorways in Serbia, but they should renovate those damage motorways, for the people's sake and safety.


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## GROBIN (Feb 27, 2011)

^^

They're slowly doing it


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

Tauernautobahn said:


> I know my answer is quite late but tunnel speed limit in Austria is 100 and not 80 km/h


There is one on the A12 near Zirl where you're allowed 130.


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## bogdymol (Feb 4, 2010)

Tauernautobahn said:


> I know my answer is quite late but tunnel speed limit in Austria is 100 and not 80 km/h


I find even 100 km/h annoying. I drove last autumn on A2 between Villach and Graz and it was extremely annoying to go 130-100-130-100-130-100-... :nuts:


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## Sponsor (Mar 19, 2006)

Why do you guys find polish A4 or A6 so attractive? They are nothing special, just regular motorways as many across the continent.


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## x-type (Aug 19, 2005)

Orionol said:


> CY: Haha perhaps that. But the local said that the flowers are poisoned and keeps animals away from the motorway.:nuts:



oleanders, right? they are not poisoned, but toxic  you can find them along motorways in southern Italy and Croatia, probably in Greece too


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

bogdymol said:


> I find even 100 km/h annoying. I drove last autumn on A2 between Villach and Graz and it was extremely annoying to go 130-100-130-100-130-100-... :nuts:


I agree. More than annoying, I find that dangerous: more so in Germany, when you can go godspeed-100-80-100-godspeed in less than 500 meters...


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## GROBIN (Feb 27, 2011)

Sponsor said:


> Why do you guys find polish A4 or A6 so attractive? They are nothing special, just regular motorways as many across the continent.


I haven't been on Polish A6 contrary to Orionol, so I can't judge it. Polish A4's landscapes between Wrocław and Gliwice, & next between Jaworzno and Kraków are quite nice  But the nicest current motorway there is Polish A2 between Świecko and Nowy Tomyśl, and next between Konin and Stryków. 

I also like the landscapes on some sections of:
- the M20 Dover-London in the UK, 
- the Eastern part of the German A4 (Dresden - Görlitz), 
- the French A10 Poitiers - Bordeaux, A20 Vierzon - Brive-La Gaillarde; A16 Amiens - Le Touquet-Paris-Plage
- the Belgian E42/A15 Charleroi - Liège
- and the Spanish A-2 Zaragoza-Madrid, AP-8 Donostia/San Sebastián - Irún and A-15 Donostia/San Sebastián - Iruña/Pamplona.

Nice landscapes can also contribute to the nice drive  

P.S.: We should rename this thread "the best country in Europe to drive on motorways*/expressways*"  What do you guys think ?


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## Jeroen669 (Nov 29, 2006)

GROBIN said:


> You're right to point out the good rest stops in France (but very expensive) ! On the Polish A2 and recently on A4, they're very nice too ! Especially if you've got kids - you have playgrounds for them
> 
> In Germany and Belgium, what I like in those rest areas: less expensive than in France (especially in Eastern Germany - the Cottbus region). But the Dutch areas - although they're clean - suck big time: too close to the motorway !


When you're in germany: try stopping at an autohof instead of a raststätte. Better food, more facilities and I believe fuel is also somewhat cheaper. I also love the fact that sanitairy in germany is everywhere decent and clean. (even though you have pay for it)

Belgium and the Netherlands must have the worst rest areas, anyway. In Belgium it's often just a big mess, in the Netherlands you often have to beg for a key for the toilets!


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## Chilio (May 1, 2009)

mediar said:


> Really? C'mon, it's not that bad, especially the part between Belgrade and the Croatian border. It's worse between Belgrade and Nish, but still acceptable compared to the Bulgarian motorways. In that case, you should never ever drive on a Bulgarian motorway, except the newly-opened sections.


Come on, you're being too pessimistic and critical about Bulgarian motorways. Most of them are good or ok. They were quite worse few years ago, but there now aren't so many potholes, mostly problematics are asphalt patches, that are not smooth enough.
The worst motorway I have driven on is on Macedonian M1/E75 between Skopje and Veles... There were so many and so deep and so dangerous potholes, that speeds over 70-80 km/h were really unreasonable.
I really liked driving on Austrian motorways more than on German. Not because there is any so specific difference, but the scenic mountain views around were marvelous.
Also have driven on French, Hungarian and Serbian motorways. On Serbian and especially on Macedonian motorways I find the toll boxes rather annoying, as they are too often and slow down a lot the whole travelling.


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## Sponsor (Mar 19, 2006)

GROBIN said:


> But the nicest current motorway there is Polish A2 between Świecko and Nowy Tomyśl, and next between Konin and Stryków.


Between Konin and Stryków?








_source: www.panoramio.com_

Well, it's just matter of taste but I guess you meant Konin - Koło section 

Talking about landscapes there are plenty of scenic routes everywhere but in Poland (Scandinavia, Central Europe, Balkans, West Europe, Spain).

Personally I haven't driven too many of them actually driving a car, just A4, A2 and A9 in Germany. The last one was the most impressive at section entering Bavaria. Among polish: A4 Wrocław - DE and A2 Konin - Koło, S1 CR - Bielsko-Biała are my favourites.


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## LT1550 (Oct 15, 2007)

I do NOT vote for Germany:

I prefer relaxed driving, and that's not possible on German Autobahns. The main problem is when there's no speed limit. It is not possible to drive constantly with a speed which is fuel saving on the one hand and fast enough on the other hand. Example: On a 2-lane-autobahn the right lane is full of trucks. When you are driving 130 kph on the right lane you have to pass those trucks which just drive around 80 kph. On the left lane you have to speed up for a short time because there might be a driver who likes to drive 200+ kph. That makes the overall driving atmosphere more stressful than for example in France or the Netherlands where they have general speed limits.

The pavement (at least where I regularly drive) is not that great, too.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

^^ I agree. I always found driving in France much more relaxing than in Germany. I mean driving fast is fun, but for like an hour. If you have a long drive ahead, it can be quite tiring.


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## MattiG (Feb 11, 2011)

LT1550 said:


> When you are driving 130 kph on the right lane you have to pass those trucks which just drive around 80 kph. On the left lane you have to speed up for a short time because there might be a driver who likes to drive 200+ kph.


That is true. The polite Germans turn mad at the motorway sign, and the motorway traffic is kind of a cat and mouse game.

What is more interesting, an average speed of 120 kph is easily achievable on the French motorways. The traffic flow on the German autobahns usually suffers from repeating and sudden traffic shocks, and the average speed seldom is more than 100 kph.


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## Lebanese_Almaghrebia (May 15, 2011)

Definitely Belgium. :lol: With all those traffic jams..


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## Orionol (Feb 13, 2009)

Sponsor said:


> Why do you guys find polish A4 or A6 so attractive? They are nothing special, just regular motorways as many across the continent.


I find the Polish motorway beautiful due to nature around the road. In the A6, you can almost see the whole Szczecin (or parts of Szczecin, in some moment), which is really amazing because Szczecin is a wonderful city. The S3 is also beautiful because that motorway isn't surrounded by nothin, you can see the horizon. S3 is peaceful and calm road to drive on (I don't really know if it is a motorway, but I judge that road as a motorway, because for me it looks like a motorway).
A4 is also very beautiful, especially when you drive on the Silesian part (big and many cities).

E6 in Sweden is also beautiful (one of the most beautiful roads in Sweden), because you can see Denmark, Malmö, the Öresund bridge and Turning Torso. But I'm starting to get bored when I drive on the E6, so many times between Helsingborg and Malmö, and now for me this road isn't so special anymore:nuts:. But for newcomer, this road is a beauty.

X-type: Yes thats the flowers, haha:lol: I love them.


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## GROBIN (Feb 27, 2011)

Sponsor said:


> Between Konin and Stryków?
> (...) Well, it's just matter of taste but I guess you meant Konin - Koło section  (...)


I mean the whole section, the building of which is a bit similar to the new Western section of the A2. Animal bridges and colored ones are fun 




LT1550 said:


> I do NOT vote for Germany:
> 
> I prefer relaxed driving, and that's not possible on German Autobahns. The main problem is when there's no speed limit. It is not possible to drive constantly with a speed which is fuel saving on the one hand and fast enough on the other hand. Example: On a 2-lane-autobahn the right lane is full of trucks. When you are driving 130 kph on the right lane you have to pass those trucks which just drive around 80 kph. On the left lane you have to speed up for a short time because there might be a driver who likes to drive 200+ kph. That makes the overall driving atmosphere more stressful than for example in France or the Netherlands where they have general speed limits.
> 
> The pavement (at least where I regularly drive) is not that great, too.


IMHO it's all a matter of the way you drive. You can’t possibly stay on the left side like they do it here, in France !
I drove – in the past – cars which did not allow me to drive constantly over the 130 km/h advisory speed limit, and nowhere I felt stressed. German drivers wait patiently until you go back to the right side (especially on 2x2 motorways) without pressuring you. If the stress you mean is watching your side-mirror before changing lanes, then driving anywhere shall be stressful for you 
Moreover, from my experience in that country, when the pavement is not good, there are speed limits (100 or 120 km/h) …

P.S.: Which country do you vote for then ? 



ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ I agree. I always found driving in France much more relaxing than in Germany. I mean driving fast is fun, but for like an hour. If you have a long drive ahead, it can be quite tiring.


One thing is true: when I enter Germany, I’m always happy and like _“FINALLY I can drive according to my own tempo”_. But when I’m at the other end of Germany I’m often tired. 

BUT Germany has this advantage you can drive at the speed you want. I'm tired just because I always choose to drive 200 km/h if not above on German motorways (which I can't do here in France). Moreover, nobody forbids you to drive 110 km/h if you want to, when in my country - France - you’d better watch your speedometer. 
Relaxing you say ? I prefer staying fully concentrated driving at higher speeds than driving at a ridiculous (comparing to the car I drive) constant speed *not by choice*, watching my speedometer all the time and getting asleep.



MattiG said:


> That is true. The polite Germans turn mad at the motorway sign, and the motorway traffic is kind of a cat and mouse game.
> 
> What is more interesting, an average speed of 120 kph is easily achievable on the French motorways. The traffic flow on the German autobahns usually suffers from repeating and sudden traffic shocks, and the average speed seldom is more than 100 kph.


Quite hard to compare - in the case of traffic flow - Germany which is smaller than France and has around 20million more inhabitants. Moreover, Germany is a polycentric country, whereas France is a centralized country (almost everything and 1/5 of the population is in the Île-de-France region). 
But if you drive on French motorways when everyone goes/returns on/from vacation, and get into a big traffic jam around a big city or before a _péage_, I bet you won’t even achieve an average speed of more than 80 km/h ... Not mentioning that our tolls are horribly expensive.

Moreover, it’s not true that Germans turn mad at the motorway sign. The vast majority of them drive according to the _Richtgeschwindigkeit_ (advisory speed limit), that is up to 130km/h. Why ? 
1)	Because no-limit motorways are nothing new to them and
2)	Because a lot of them certainly tries to save fuel !


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## Jeroen669 (Nov 29, 2006)

GROBIN said:


> One thing is true: when I enter Germany, I’m always happy and like _“FINALLY I can drive according to my own tempo”_. But when I’m at the other end of Germany I’m often tired.


Then why does your user title say: conducteur infatigable ?


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

Another disadvantage in Germany: Since they've opened the borders up with Eastern Europe, Eastern Europeans clog up the autobahns with their often bad driving skills. No offence intended - but Slovakians, Romanians, Poles and Czechs haven't got a clue on how to use a motorway properly, especially not in Germany, where it is of vital importance to keep to the FAR right unless overtaking. I saw it again at 7 in the morning today - a quiet Christmas morning on the A8 between Rosenheim and Munich. And who are hogging the middle lane? A couple of Poles and Romanians (and one Austrian with a KB - Kitzbuhel plate. But within Tyrol, they are known to be bad drivers.) I probably get a lot of comments now from Poles, who believe they are great drivers - the same ones who think that Germany is the best country to drive in, and that the A4 in Poland is God's Own gift to the Polish people.

Bad influence to the Germans as well. In the old days, they used to drive fast but disciplined. These days, a lot of them are making the same mistakes, to which they were blaming the Dutch decades ago, who do have rather good lane discipline today.


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## rpc08 (Mar 28, 2008)

From my short experience in the european motorways I definitely choose *France*. Excellent motorways, speed limit 130 (it could be even a little higher in most cases) and excellent service and rest areas which are an invitation to stop  The tolls are expensive but in the end we do not feel cheated.

The others I know, from best to worst:

2º Luxembourg: OK, they have a really small motorway network but it is in fabulous condition (and almost all illuminated by night) 

3º Portugal: here in Portugal we have two "classes" of motorways: the first are granted to Brisa and can be compared to the best ones in Europe - relaxed driving, very good maintainence and good service areas. The others are the ex-SCUT, granted to other companies that in general make a poor mainteinance. 

4º Spain: some of the new _autovías_ and _autopistas_ are simply great, but in mountainous areas...hno: It's just a sacrifice to drive in the Basque country, for example. Ah, and I specially dislike those _vias de servício_ next to the _autovías_ with restaurants and hotels looking very doubtful...

5º Switzerland: a lot of tunnels and some sharp curves but the network is in general very well maintained.

6º Belgium: a complete disaster in my opinion: very bad maintenance, some ridiculous signage and radars all over the place.

I was also in Germany and Italy but I don't know enough to do a proper evaluation.


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## katsuma (Oct 21, 2011)

Road_UK said:


> (...) I probably get *a lot of comments now from Poles*, who believe they are great drivers - the same ones who think that Germany is the best country to drive in, and that the A4 in Poland is God's Own gift to the Polish people.


No, you won't.  You're certainly entitled to express your own opinion, which is just an opinion though.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

rpc08 said:


> 4º Spain: some of the new _autovías_ and _autopistas_ are simply great, but in mountainous areas...hno: It's just a sacrifice to drive in the Basque country, for example. *Ah, and I specially dislike those vias de servício next to the autovías with restaurants and hotels looking very doubtful...*


Ahah, you're right, I forgot about vias de servicio... I stopped at one rest area on the A-7 near Lorca and I felt I was in Mexico in 19th century...


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## gigilamoroso (Dec 10, 2008)

definitely not germany : there isn't a single month when one can't see a giant deadly pile-up involving tens of cars in a so-called autobahn.


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## MajKeR_ (Feb 5, 2009)

Road_UK - it would be hard to overthrow your mind, so I won't try. It's just a stereotype, which works in your head. But from the other side: why are you still complaining and inventing new things, which perhaps make you angry for these evil and stupid Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Romanians and other habitants of "Eastern Europe"? Calm down, because by such texts you're only irritating these poor people and yourself. You may not place a new "iron curtain", which would be able to stop their invasion for "West".

Something for these, who still advert "cultural" driving with keeping right lane if it's just able - what I've seen on A8 near Munchen. It was winter time, road was still busy. It hadn't prevented drivers for overtaking, but I haven't any complaints for this fact - only for its manner. Lots of them were jumping from right lane, by the middle, to left, and if road became more empty for moment or they decided to turn into a gas station (also for Austrian vignette - because Austrian motorways are - what a pity!  - paid) , they went back to the right. It enforced a big attention and multitude drivers were giving entrance for them (like some incentive for this behavior). But one moment I... stopped. There was a traffic jam - dued by this perfect and dynamic driving style. This situation returned a few times in about 100-km long stretch.

And what I've seen in whole Italy, from Udine area to south: if you want drive slow - you're keeping right lane, faster - central one, more faster - left. Drivers keep safety interspaces, where you can drive in, if you need - but then you should reduce your speed. Traffic jams? Only on busy interchanges and - what a pity! - toll plazas.


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## seem (Jun 15, 2008)

Road_UK said:


> You'll get there. When you build something, it's important that you get it right. After all, Rome wasn't built in one day.
> 
> Take a look on the Belgian thread. A supposingly western country with an ancient road network. Instead of maintaining it properly, they have now apparantly decided to renew the network by 2015 (with our European money of course, Belgium isn't anywhere near triple A rating status)


But still comparing to similar countries we are still lacking behind, of course that also landscape is the major problem and disadvatnage but if we just compare road network it's just bad, take for instance Hungary or Czech Republic. 

Why is that actually? The same about Britain, I really don't understand why the construction of roads and motorways just stopped some years (or decades?) ago. It's quite ironic that driving on main roads in the UK is almost (or it just really is) worse than driving on our crap roads, well I think this has also some historical reasons, I mean your roads are just so curvy and going up and down all the time, usually quite narrow and there are bushes all around so you can't see anyting. Travelling 5hrs on such a roads in Wales was really annoying, thanks God I usually did just short trips.


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

At the moment you're not lacking anymore behind then these countries you have mentioned. Also keep in mind that Slovakia is not over populated compared to countries like Germany, Belgium, Britain or Holland, who needs a great infrastructure to keep the country moving. Belgium and Britain did not keep this in mind when they designed their infrastructures. You are. And you still have plenty of time to design and carefully plan your infrastructure - and with projects already completed, it goes to show that you're on the right road. But these things take time. You will get there.


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## Attii (Jan 11, 2008)

Road_UK said:


> ^ exactly.


lol.. wait n see if the "pommies" road infrastructure in a few years is gradually going to be degraded in East European reviews


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## seem (Jun 15, 2008)

Road_UK said:


> At the moment you're not lacking anymore behind then these countries you have mentioned. Also keep in mind that Slovakia is not over populated compared to countries like Germany, Belgium, Britain or Holland, who needs a great infrastructure to keep the country moving. Belgium and Britain did not keep this in mind when they designed their infrastructures. You are. And you still have plenty of time to design and carefully plan your infrastructure - and with projects already completed, it goes to show that you're on the right road. But these things take time. You will get there.


Well and another thing which I just completle forgot. Britain is an inland so it's quite clear why your network is different from other countries, people usually travel just between cities, there are no bordering countries and any roads which would carrie transport between two other countries.


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## Attii (Jan 11, 2008)

Pansori said:


> Ehm, maybe. I don't think this is what we're discussing though. I was wondering why some forumers even over here put some aspects of UK motorways as advantages while they're certainly not. I don't know how is this anything to do with the prospect of finding a job for Eastern Europeans. :?


Hope you know what the word irony means?


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

seem said:


> Well and another thing which I just completle forgot. Britain is an inland so it's quite clear why your network is different from other countries, people usually travel just between cities, there are no bordering countries and any roads which would carrie transport between two other countries.


The only road that would come near to that would be the M20 to Dover. And that's relatively congestion free compared to the M1, M6 and M25. 

But they're not "my" roads, and I'm not fully British. I'm a silly Dutchman living in a ski-resort in Austria, who happens to be here, there and everywhere, including Britain and Slovakia.


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

Attii said:


> Hope you know what the word irony means?


Sure, I just don't see how that answered my question though.


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## KingNick (Sep 23, 2010)

My favorite Autobahn is A8 between Salzburg and Munich. Scenery, going up and down plus the old layout makes it one of a kind.

A10 Tauernautobahn in Austria is also pretty nice.


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

KingNick said:


> My favorite Autobahn is A8 between Salzburg and Munich. Scenery, going up and down plus the old layout makes it one of a kind.
> 
> A10 Tauernautobahn in Austria is also pretty nice.


I took this vid back in early 2010. It's a nice road but I bet it's much nicer in summer than it was in winter


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## KingNick (Sep 23, 2010)

Definitely, yes.

Actually the whole A8 - A10 - A23 (Tarviso to Udine) corridor is very nice to drive.


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## hofburg (Jun 27, 2009)

agree for A23.it and A10.at, but A8 Salzburg Munich?? apart scenery it's one of the worst autobahns ever.


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## Ribarca (Jan 28, 2005)

Lebanese_Almaghrebia said:


> Definitely Belgium. :lol: With all those traffic jams..


And the concrete plates they use for many roads. It makes that "duk duk duk duk sound" all the time driving over it. Not too mention you always get lost unless you use a Tom Tom since they often put a sign with directions last minute.


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## KingNick (Sep 23, 2010)

hofburg said:


> agree for A23.it and A10.at, but A8 Salzburg Munich?? apart scenery it's one of the worst autobahns ever.


I am aware of the fact that it's in poor condition and far from nowadays standards for an Autobahn, but exactly this makes it special for me. Tight curves, steepish, love it!


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## bogdymol (Feb 4, 2010)

Italian *A23* Autostrada Alpe-Adria is indeed a magnificent drive:





@6:13 :drool:

I also drove on german A8 near Salzburg, but it was quite crowded and stresfull to drive with all those speed maniacs around...


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## ptscout (Oct 23, 2011)

KingNick said:


> I am aware of the fact that it's in poor condition and far from nowadays standards for an Autobahn, but exactly this makes it special for me. Tight curves, steepish, love it!


Yes, the very old parts without speedlimit are great. Ulm-Augsburg-München was daily limited.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

bogdymol said:


> Italian *A23* Autostrada Alpe-Adria is indeed a magnificent drive:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is the best Autostrada I drove in so far. I had high hopes regarding A32 Turin-Frejus since it is one of the newest in Italy, but it's bumpy and curvy and full of roadworks.

A1 south of Rome and A14 between Bologna and Rimini are also very relaxing to drive.


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## hofburg (Jun 27, 2009)

A23 doesn't have much traffic as well, and coming from Austria you think you came to the asphalt heaven


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

Ribarca said:


> And the concrete plates they use for many roads. It makes that "duk duk duk duk sound" all the time driving over it. Not too mention you always get lost unless you use a Tom Tom since they often put a sign with directions last minute.


Yes, but you cannot say this to Belgians. They get very upset when you say things like that, and they start spitting at you, but the only thing that gets wet are their computer screens.


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## Nordic20T (Sep 28, 2011)

hofburg said:


> but A8 Salzburg Munich?? apart scenery it's one of the worst autobahns ever.


I agree. I stopped using it and take now A92/A3 when driving from Switzerland to Hungary. 
A92 has almost no speed limit and very low traffic, and A3 from Deggendorf to Passau is also surprisingly calm.


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## Accura4Matalan (Jan 7, 2004)

seem said:


> But still comparing to similar countries we are still lacking behind, of course that also landscape is the major problem and disadvatnage but if we just compare road network it's just bad, take for instance Hungary or Czech Republic.
> 
> Why is that actually? The same about Britain, I really don't understand why the construction of roads and motorways just stopped some years (or decades?) ago. It's quite ironic that driving on main roads in the UK is almost (or it just really is) worse than driving on our crap roads, well I think this has also some historical reasons, I mean your roads are just so curvy and going up and down all the time, usually quite narrow and there are bushes all around so you can't see anyting. Travelling 5hrs on such a roads in Wales was really annoying, thanks God I usually did just short trips.


When reading peoples accounts like this (and there are many on this thread) I do get the feeling that many people have not driven much in the UK outside of South East England (where the road network is largely incomplete). Across the country, there are no major problems with connectivity either linking urban centres or driving cross country. Certainly, there are motorways which have not been built to full plan, but not in a way that makes a journey effectively impossible or much more difficult. I cannot think of anywhere in the UK where a motorway is desperately needed (one exception being the Scotland link north of Newcastle). In these supposed gaps, dual-carriageway A-roads do the job just as well with motorway speeds and regulations, especially in Wales, Northern Scotland, and the English Midlands. 
Even in the South East, I don't think that additional roads would solve many problems compared to the heavy investments currently being made in public transport.


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

Accura4Matalan said:


> When reading peoples accounts like this (and there are many on this thread) I do get the feeling that many people have not driven much in the UK outside of South East England (where the road network is largely incomplete). Across the country, there are no major problems with connectivity either linking urban centres or driving cross country. Certainly, there are motorways which have not been built to full plan, but not in a way that makes a journey effectively impossible or much more difficult. I cannot think of anywhere in the UK where a motorway is desperately needed (one exception being the Scotland link north of Newcastle). In these supposed gaps, dual-carriageway A-roads do the job just as well with motorway speeds and regulations, especially in Wales, Northern Scotland, and the English Midlands.
> Even in the South East, I don't think that additional roads would solve many problems compared to the heavy investments currently being made in public transport.


That's the spirit. kay:
I guess attitudes like this among the politicians and planners are responsible for Britain having inadequate road network (not just motorways) in the first place. The cliche'sque "if you build more roads, they'll fill up" argument is at the top of it all. Oh well...


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## Angelos (Dec 20, 2006)

May i suggest some improvements Accura4Matalan ? 

For example :

1) M27 all the way from Portsmouth to Brighton or Dover. Have you ever tried going from Portsmouth to Brighton ? its absolutely hell with all these roundabouts at Chichester, going through the center of Worthing and if you want to go to Dover the road turns to be to a low quality Single carriegeway.

2) A303 improvement to full standard Motorway. Its badly congested during summer time where everyone goes to Devon and Cornwall for vacation...

3) M27 extension to Exeter ? it would be a nice alternative from A303.

4) A1(M) all the way to Edinburgh, as far as i remember there are some roundabouts near London.

5) Birmingham west Ring road, something like M6T

6) North and south circular road, should be Full standard 3 or 4 lane Motorway, something like Paris ringroads

7) M67 to sheffield

8) A motorway should be be built to Norwich and Ipswich, i think its A11 and A12 

9) Upgrade A14 to full motorway, as far as i know theres is high HGV traffic better lowesoft and midlands.

10) And last upgrade A21 to dual carriageway all the way to hastings with grade seperated junctions. Imo it would improve tourism in the south east

I wont mention A3M since most of its length is motorway standard. 

I forgot to mention many Motorway junctions which are connected with roundabout such as M60/M66 , A1M/M25 , M32/M4 and many more junctions that are not coming to my mind right now...


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## ea1969 (Oct 6, 2007)

@Angelos
I do not belive that there is any will in Britain to invest on new massive road schemes. Some of your (useful) proposals were previously proposed but have fallen into a lot of political, financial and environmental troubles. For example the A11 and A12 roads to East Anglia or the London Circular Roads (part of the proposed Ringways). I quite understand the difficulty of upgrading the A205 (South Circular) from a series of borough high streets to a 6-lane expressway/motorway. They should have demolished quite a lot of South London.

In Birmingham, the M6Toll is running well under capacity as people still prefer to get through the congested old M6; almost always clogged between Junctions 4 & 10, but still taking most of through traffic along the local one. So a M5Toll would face the same failure, unless they did it free of charge, but I doubt it.

Finally the M27 east of Hampshire would have to pass through some sensitive environmental areas (South Downs).

But mostly, it is the lack of will.


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## poshbakerloo (Jan 16, 2007)

ea1969 said:


> In Birmingham, the M6Toll is running well under capacity as people still prefer to get through the congested old M6; almost always clogged between Junctions 4 & 10, but still taking most of through traffic along the local one. So a M5Toll would face the same failure, unless they did it free of charge, but I doubt it.


I think they tolled the wrong routes. They should complete the ring around Birmingham, and have them as free routes and toll the motorways that run through the middle...


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## Angelos (Dec 20, 2006)

I know very well that Nimbyism is very strong in the UK and for me their motorway network has been over capacity especially in the South East and soon or later with their current population growth their motorway network will come to a standstill. 

I don't understand why M6Toll was seen negatively, when it opened in 2003 the toll was only 2 quid which is fairly cheap, still they prefered the congested M6... 

I know very well how strong influence Nimbys have in Britain but i hope somehow in the future that we will see some large scale road upgrades like we see today in the Netherlands. Dont forget that the Netherlands a few years ago was in the same situation with Britain.


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

^^

Not before the Libdems come to power...


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## Angelos (Dec 20, 2006)

Still i hope there is a small voice inside them which will say after few years " wtf were we doing all these years?? we must built new roads! " you know its that small common sense voice ...


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## Nomak (Mar 28, 2006)

This summer I drove through a lot of European countries in a low suspension sports car, so I could really feel which roads were good or bad. 
The best roads in European according to me was Hungary, followed closely by Austria. That's probably because they seemed quite newly built. 

I was very disappointed in German roads, even with the Autobahn speed limits I couldn't go too fast because the roads made the car like a rollercoster..


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## piotr71 (Sep 8, 2009)

However, German_ autobahnen_ have best shaped curves of all European motorways allowing you to really fast driving.


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## Angelos (Dec 20, 2006)

When i was in Germany speeds over 160 km/h were very common O_O. Sometimes some audis and bmws tried to race me  i had soooo much fun !


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## poshbakerloo (Jan 16, 2007)

The whole motorway racing this is silly. I say that as I know someone who was killed in one. 127Mph on the M1 at night, it was empty before anyone says but still don't do it! Leave your egos at home.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Angelos said:


> When i was in Germany speeds over 160 km/h were very common O_O. Sometimes some audis and bmws tried to race me  i had soooo much fun !


On A95 toward Garmisch once I did 165 while overtaking, and still had a queue of BMWs and Audis behind me


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## hofburg (Jun 27, 2009)

when driving in Germany you see why German cars need so much horse power.


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

hofburg said:


> when driving in Germany you see why German cars need so much horse power.


If you search YouTube you'll find some Japanese videos with Japanese bringing their cars (like Nissan GTR) all the way from Japan to test them or just have some fun on German autobahns. That says enough.


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## Satyricon84 (Feb 3, 2009)

g.spinoza said:


> On A95 toward Garmisch once I did 165 while overtaking, and still had a queue of BMWs and Audis behind me


On the A5 near the Frankfurt Airport is easy to see people driving 250 km/h+...my car doesn't go faster than 210 Km/h in that part and I see people overtaking me at higher speed >(


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## MajKeR_ (Feb 5, 2009)

Are you sure that such sitiuations exist only in Germany (if we're taking into account only "old EU")?


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## Angelos (Dec 20, 2006)

definitely not but what makes germany unique is that all these stuff are legal. You can see the same stuff in in Italy or Greece or any EU country


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

Pansori said:


> ^^
> 
> Not before the Libdems come to power...


Are they particularly pro-road (or do they have a snowball's chance in hell of beating both the Tories and Labour in the same election at any time in the foreseeable future)? Or am I not understanding you?

Not that I mean to get into another country's politics; I just got the impression they were chronically a third party, and would have guessed they were a bit green.


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## Angelos (Dec 20, 2006)

poshbakerloo said:


> The whole motorway racing this is silly. I say that as I know someone who was killed in one. 127Mph on the M1 at night, it was empty before anyone says but still don't do it! Leave your egos at home.


 I dont find it dangerous at all especially if you have a very good car and the road is in good condition ( dry, good pavement , no traffic )


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Angelos said:


> definitely not but what makes germany unique is that all these stuff are legal. You can see the same stuff in in Italy or Greece or any EU country


It's just that in Germany they're a lot more frequent. In Italy people doing 200+ exist, but they're not so frequent as the cliché suggests. I'm not particularly kind to my fellow Italians, other clichés are real, for instance no one (and I mean it) uses blinkers.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Angelos said:


> Still i hope there is a small voice inside them which will say after few years " wtf were we doing all these years?? we must built new roads! " you know its that small common sense voice ...


Yeah, I don't think thats gonna happen



Penn's Woods said:


> Are they particularly pro-road (or do they have a snowball's chance in hell of beating both the Tories and Labour in the same election at any time in the foreseeable future)? Or am I not understanding you?
> 
> Not that I mean to get into another country's politics; I just got the impression they were chronically a third party, and would have guessed they were a bit green.


The Liberals are more powerful in some places than others, such as in Cornwall or Northern Scotland, but overall they have no chance of winning an election and they are more unpopular now than ever. They are seriously hated at the moment by many people for going into coalition/being annexed by a party with which they disagree with on almost everything because they thought they'd get a bit of power out it, which they didn't. They are a bit green, but so are the other parties, for example the Conservatives tried to gain votes by taking some ecological policies from the Green Party, but not social ones, considering that the Green Party has left wing social policies, although the Conservatives are probably more left-wing than the Democrats in the US. The Liberal Democrats want to build on the railway network, which is also probably unpopular, in fact recently there has been a lot of anti-railway nimbyism. 

Anyway, no party is going to risk loosing votes by building roads I don't think.


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## Jeroen669 (Nov 29, 2006)

g.spinoza said:


> It's just that in Germany they're a lot more frequent. In Italy people doing 200+ exist, but they're not so frequent as the cliché suggests. I'm not particularly kind to my fellow Italians, other clichés are real, for instance no one (and I mean it) uses blinkers.


In fact, quite a lot of italians are driving awfully slow as well...


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## Satyricon84 (Feb 3, 2009)

^^ especially in the central lane


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

Penn's Woods said:


> Are they particularly pro-road (or do they have a snowball's chance in hell of beating both the Tories and Labour in the same election at any time in the foreseeable future)? Or am I not understanding you?
> 
> Not that I mean to get into another country's politics; I just got the impression they were chronically a third party, and would have guessed they were a bit green.


I just keep reading opinions of Nick Clegg and other figures of that party. Among other things such as the need to rebalance the British economy away from dependency on finance sector they mention the need to improve transport infrastructure and specifically roads. Nothing special really. Pretty much common sense which has been clinically ignored by two other main parties for a while now.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

> The Liberal Democrats want to build on the railway network, which is also probably unpopular, in fact recently there has been a lot of anti-railway nimbyism.


Why?


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Jeroen669 said:


> In fact, quite a lot of italians are driving awfully slow as well...


I wouldn't say that. Vast majority drive a little over the limit.


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## Angelos (Dec 20, 2006)

Another thing is that in the UK goverment support people to use the railway instead of their cars. 

The point is that lets say a 4 member family wants from London to brighton, their tickets would be about 70 quid one way, with return would be about 120 if there is a discount ? If they used their car it would be almost half the price and much more comfortable and with freedom to go anywhere they want. Dont some people understand that trains will never replace private transport ?


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## Angelos (Dec 20, 2006)

g.spinoza said:


> I wouldn't say that. Vast majority drive a little over the limit.


i wouldnt say that either, when i was in italy most of them were driving 160+ at overtake lane, middle lane was for 80 km/h and right lane was for 200 km/h + :lol: 

Especially the ring road of Milano was quite scary, and the bendy autostrada between Genoa - Torino. Lots of tailgating there and fast driving at bends


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## Jeroen669 (Nov 29, 2006)

g.spinoza said:


> I wouldn't say that. Vast majority drive a little over the limit.


I quite often see people driving like 60 - 70 km/h or ever slower on 2 lane-stretches as the A9 Lainate - Como or the eastern ring Milano. And as a truck driver I'm not allowed to pass them (overtaking ban), so these drivers can be quite a pain in the ass..


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## keber (Nov 8, 2006)

Angelos said:


> i wouldnt say that either, when i was in italy most of them were driving 160+ at overtake lane, middle lane was for 80 km/h and right lane was for 200 km/h + :lol:


This was probably long time ago, times have changed. It is pretty rare thing to see someone going 160 or more, even in the south.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Angelos said:


> i wouldnt say that either, when i was in italy most of them were driving 160+ at overtake lane, middle lane was for 80 km/h and right lane was for 200 km/h + :lol:
> 
> Especially the ring road of Milano was quite scary, and the bendy autostrada between Genoa - Torino. Lots of tailgating there and fast driving at bends


This must be something location-related (or time-related as keber said), 'cause I never drove on those roads you mentioned. But I can assure you that on A14 very few people speed, and vast majority of them are San Marino plated cars.


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## MajKeR_ (Feb 5, 2009)

I've been one time in town past Italian A14. When they've rebuilt it for 2x3, one way was closed and the second one was divided for two directions. There were two stenosed lanes for every direction, with speed limit 60 or 80 km/h (it depended of stretch), but it hasn't prevented drivers to drive about 120 km/h.

It shows how tendency may exist on this motorway. But it has pretty surface and quite low traffic, so such behaviors may be justified.


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## hofburg (Jun 27, 2009)

they stick to the limit here in northeast I.


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## gigilamoroso (Dec 10, 2008)

The best country in Europe to drive on motorways is definitely Portugal.

Indeed, Portugal is full of desert motorways with few traffic payed by european funds (one of the densest motorway network in europe for one of the poorest country).

In Portugal you can do whatever you want on the roads : there isn't enforcement. Police is paid for playing cards in their headquarters. Hence, the motorway network in Portugal is like German autobhan : you can do 200 km/h. Besides you can tailgate, drive under the influence, go countraflow without being annoyed by the cops.

And if you kill someone, don't be preoccupied : you won't go to jail. Justice is very kind with you, even if you are drunk, going 200 km/h and under the influence of drugs. Ok you will be arrest but the judge will send you home quick. And the trial, if there's a trial will occur 10 years after the wreck. The judge will say "very bad boy, don't do it again".

Yeah definitely Portugal.


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## whiteguard (Nov 9, 2011)

Russia?


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## Angelos (Dec 20, 2006)

Sounds like Greece to me


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## poshbakerloo (Jan 16, 2007)

Angelos said:


> Dont some people understand that trains will never replace private transport ?



They have in some places. People travelling to London who don't live there mostly take the train to avoid congestion, congestion charge and nightmare parking...


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

^^The congestion is proof that trains haven't replaced private transport. For the foreseeable future, we'll need both mass transit and individual transportation.


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## Surel (May 5, 2010)

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^The congestion is proof that trains haven't replaced private transport. For the foreseeable future, we'll need both mass transit and individual transportation.


The evolution of the transport goes like this: feet, ship, horse, chariots, rail, cars, buses, aerplanes, future.

If we dont invent some new mod of transport in the near future. The only evolution would be combination of public and private transports in intelligent transport grids. The evolution is not in decision either train or cars. The evolution is in new types of transport or their combination and improvement.


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

g.spinoza said:


> In Italy people doing 200+ exist, but they're not so frequent as the cliché suggests.


They were common in the past, now fortunately Tutor and points on driving licence are doing their job.
Our motorway anti-speeding system (Tutor) is IMHO quite fair because calculates your average speed in a section of highway that is some km long and doesn't create problem if you drive 140-150 kph for a short time eg. while overtaking.
There is a 5% tolerance, so people driving below 137kph aren't fined.
The most stupid law is the limit of 100kph (and 90kph on expressways, instead of 110) for beginning drivers (less than 3 years!). Off course nobody respect it because obviously Tutor can't know for how long you have the driving licence and would no record your plate number if you drive below 130. However, if you are stopped because you did 150 you will get a lighter punishment (in terms of euros and points lost) if you got the licence more than 3 years before (only 20kph above the limit) but a harsher one if you are a new driver (because you drove 50kph above the limit).



g.spinoza said:


> But I can assure you that on A14 very few people speed, and vast majority of them are San Marino plated cars.


Are those plates unrecognizable by speed cameras? Doesn't Italian police send fines to San Marino?



whiteguard said:


> Russia?


Are there long-distance motorways between Russian cities and between Russia and its neighbouring countries or only near\around Moscow and Saint Petersburg?


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## Blackraven (Jan 19, 2006)

The way I see it.

If there were places where I'd want to drive in European continent, then it would be in places without rail transportation (i.e. Malta or Gibraltar or Cyprus). Sure if the place has no rail transportation or train services, then I could get a taxi...........but I wanna try driving a car just for the experience hehe 

Slightly off-topic:
Singapore is a fantastic country (no doubt about that). Progressive, first-world, developed country and other positive stuff. You name it. 

But I hate the strict enforcement of the uber-low speed limit (90 km/h max speed limit WTF?!?!?:bash:hno. In fact, there's a video out there in Youtube of a guy driving his Ferrari along Ayer Rajah Expressway but he hesitates to go beyond 100 km/h because of fear that he might be fined heavily or jailed for breaking the speed limit.

Seriously, someone should present research papers and academic papers to the LTA (Land Transportation Authority of Singapore) showing that if speed is too slow, then it also causes accidents as well because slow speed makes drivers bored and sleepy causing them to lose attention hence accidents.......


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

Blackraven said:


> The way I see it.
> 
> If there were places where I'd want to drive in European continent, then it would be in places without rail transportation (i.e. Malta or Gibraltar or Cyprus). Sure if the place has no rail transportation or train services, then I could get a taxi...........but I wanna try driving a car just for the experience hehe
> 
> ...


True. However what must not be forgotten is that Singapore is a city state and all of its expressways are urban expressways like in any other cities. I don't think limit would normally exceeded 100km/h in such circumstances.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

Angelos said:


> Another thing is that in the UK goverment support people to use the railway instead of their cars.
> 
> The point is that lets say a 4 member family wants from London to brighton, their tickets would be about 70 quid one way, with return would be about 120 if there is a discount ? If they used their car it would be almost half the price and much more comfortable and with freedom to go anywhere they want. Dont some people understand that trains will never replace private transport ?


To be fair trains don't have to be anything like that expensive, I just checked and a family of two adults and two children can get a London-Brighton return this Saturday for £17 if they have a family railcard.










But yes, trains will never be able to get you everywhere you want to go at a time and price that is convenient, access to a car is a very useful thing. 

I like the idea of car sharing clubs which give access to car transport when you need it without the big overhead costs of car ownership. That way you can use public transport or car depending on what is suitable for your journey. Car owners will almost always use the car even if public transport is the better option because they have already paid the bulk of overheads and the marginal costs of fuel only are not that big.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Blackraven said:


> Seriously, someone should present research papers and academic papers to the LTA (Land Transportation Authority of Singapore) showing that if speed is too slow, then it also causes accidents as well because slow speed makes drivers bored and sleepy causing them to lose attention hence accidents.......


This statement is entirely in your head.


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## shpirtkosova (Jun 7, 2009)

Motorways in Serbia are terrible compared to regional motorways such as Slovenia, Croatia and Albania. Yes they are old motorways but so are the motorways in western Europe. Serbia fails to maintain its poor quality highways.


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## EUSERB (Nov 17, 2010)

shpirtkosova said:


> Motorways in Serbia are terrible compared to regional motorways such as Slovenia, Croatia and Albania. Yes they are old motorways but so are the motorways in western Europe. Serbia fails to maintain its poor quality highways.


Didn't i tell you already to *stop mentioning Serbia*? If you don't like Serbia,which you don't,don't talk about us...


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## radi6404 (May 13, 2007)

The best countries in europe to drive on motorways and roads in General are Slovenia, Hungary and Bulgaria, since these countries have the smoothest asphalt and driving on them feels like driving on a thick carpet. Those countries have the smoothest asphalt of the countries I have been to, Germany is also nice, lots of new motorways and they are pretty smooth aswell, but if people want to feel really soft asphalt these are the countries to go. I love roads that have no wave or any tiny bump for 20 kilometers or more and when you drive you only hear the music and see how the cars and landscape pass instead of feeling the hard asphalt on your tires. Soft and smooth asphalt is very important for me.


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## radi6404 (May 13, 2007)

shpirtkosova said:


> Motorways in Serbia are terrible compared to regional motorways such as Slovenia, Croatia and Albania. Yes they are old motorways but so are the motorways in western Europe. Serbia fails to maintain its poor quality highways.


Serbia did a lot and a lot of motorways are very well now, the Stretch Nis - Bulgarian border, the stretches close to Belgrad, the stretch to the Croatian border is great aswell and the new stretches towards Szeged are pretty good aswell, they did a lot.


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## TuzlaBoy (Nov 18, 2008)

Bosnia have high standards in making of motorways.
60km in use
90km in build


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

It is not always about good quality of road surface. There is also the subject of efficient road signing, adequate amount and high quality of rest stops and fuel stations (clean toilets), road behaviour and lane discipline of other road users, safety barriers and other features, wide hard shoulders and decent and fair road traffic law enforcement. Good quality road surface alone doesn't make a motorway the best motorway to drive on.


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## radi6404 (May 13, 2007)

but it is surely very important.


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## bogdymol (Feb 4, 2010)

Road_UK said:


> It is not always about good quality of road surface. There is also the subject of efficient road signing, adequate amount and high quality of rest stops and fuel stations (clean toilets), road behaviour and lane discipline of other road users, safety barriers and other features, wide hard shoulders and decent and fair road traffic law enforcement. Good quality road surface alone doesn't make a motorway the best motorway to drive on.


Considering all the conditions you mentioned I would put Hungary somewhere in the top.


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## Mr.Johnson (Mar 2, 2008)

The best highways are in the nord of Italy for sure!)


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## Uppsala (Feb 26, 2010)

shpirtkosova said:


> Motorways in Serbia are terrible compared to regional motorways such as Slovenia, Croatia and Albania. Yes they are old motorways but so are the motorways in western Europe. Serbia fails to maintain its poor quality highways.



No, the Serbian motorways are quite good. And many people agree with me here. Some motorways still need to be repaired, but they are working a lot now with the Serbian motorway network. Look for example at the E75 with Beska bridge and the part from Novi Sad to Hungarian border. And compared to the Slovenian and Croatian motorways, they are quite good. Serbia started to build out the motorway network some years later than Slovenia and Croatia. Slovenia and Croatia started in 1990s and Serbia started after 2000, but Serbia is comming now, and the modern projects in Serbia are similar to the projects in Slovenia and Croatia. All those 3 countries, Serbia, Croatia and Slovenia really wants to have a good motorway network and that 3 countries has motorway networks that also working very good together aswell. And the Serbian motorway network is now working very good together with the Hungarian motorway network aswell too. The Serbian motorway network is working like a south east part of Central Europe, together with Croatia, Hungary, Slovenia and Austria.

Im sorry to say that, but Albania have a long way before they have a motorway network that are built together with Central Europe.

And please stop with your anti-Serbian propaganda. I'm not Serbian, but i'm tired about to read what you are writing everytime you are writing about Serbia.  hno:


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## MajKeR_ (Feb 5, 2009)

It's not only anti-Serbian propaganda - as I see, Serbians still regard Kosovo as their own area, and citizens of Kosovo repay them by unfriendly opinions. To be honest, I understand each of them. But from my far-by-thousand-kilometers point of view: let Serbia leave Kosovo in peace, with its Albanian relationship, and Kosovo stop invade Serbia.


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## Kulla (May 6, 2010)

Uppsala said:


> No, the Serbian motorways are quite good. And many people agree with me here. Some motorways still need to be repaired, but they are working a lot now with the Serbian motorway network. Look for example at the E75 with Beska bridge and the part from Novi Sad to Hungarian border. And compared to the Slovenian and Croatian motorways, they are quite good. Serbia started to build out the motorway network some years later than Slovenia and Croatia. Slovenia and Croatia started in 1990s and Serbia started after 2000, but Serbia is comming now, and the modern projects in Serbia are similar to the projects in Slovenia and Croatia. All those 3 countries, Serbia, Croatia and Slovenia really wants to have a good motorway network and that 3 countries has motorway networks that also working very good together aswell. And the Serbian motorway network is now working very good together with the Hungarian motorway network aswell too. The Serbian motorway network is working like a south east part of Central Europe, together with Croatia, Hungary, Slovenia and Austria.
> 
> Im sorry to say that, but Albania have a long way before they have a motorway network that are built together with Central Europe.
> 
> And please stop with your anti-Serbian propaganda. I'm not Serbian, but i'm tired about to read what *you are writing everytime you are writing about Serbia*.  hno:



Have you ever heard of this thing called *freedom of speech*? :crazy:


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## x-type (Aug 19, 2005)

Kulla said:


> Have you ever heard of this thing called *freedom of speech*? :crazy:


this is private owned forum and there is no freedom of speech here. this is not a public place, but private property.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Big misunderstanding about freedom of speech: it doen't mean you can say whatever you want. Incitement to racial hatred is a felony in many nations.


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## Macedonicus (Aug 9, 2011)

You're all going off-topic. I think the best roads in Europe are the ones in Germany and Hungary. There is progress in Macedonia aswell but there's a lot of work to be done.


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## Kulla (May 6, 2010)

x-type said:


> this is private owned forum and there is no freedom of speech here. this is not a public place, but private property.


Well then its still not up to him, me or you to decide what can be said here.


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## Kulla (May 6, 2010)

Edit....


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