# Thirty days in Europe...what to do?



## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

I'd go:

Lisbon-Seville-Madrid-Barcelona-Marseille-Florence-Rome-Venice-Ljubljana-Budapest-Vienna-Prague-Munich-Frankfurt-Cologne-Amsterdam-Brussels-Paris

Probably too much to do properly in 30 days though, maybe skip 4 or 5 of these cities.


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## Forza Raalte (Sep 18, 2004)

^^ That looks pretty decent. But I would choose for, only a slight change:

Lisbon-Seville-Madrid-Barcelona-Marseille-Florence-Rome-Venice-Ljubljana-Budapest-Vienna-Prague-(so far we agree ) *Dresden-Berlin*-Cologne-Amsterdam-Brussels-Paris


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

There's too many choices. Something I didn't mention was, I'd like to skip Paris and Venice, as I've been there more than I need to (though I love Paris).

Forza and Jonesy, your suggestions seem pretty good, though I'd add:

*Porto* (Easyjet flies into it from London)-Lisbon-Seville-Madrid-Barcelona-Marseille-*Milan*-Florence-Rome-_Venice_-Ljubljana-Budapest-Vienna-Prague-_Dresden_-Berlin-_Cologne_-Amsterdam-Brussels sounds pretty good.

Is Dresden and Cologne more interesting than Frankfurt, Munich and Hamburg? And is Switzerland worth the detour (I don't even know where I'd fit it!)?

Is there no direct train from Lisbon to Seville, and Nice to Milan?


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

Switzerland is small and can be crossed by train in some 4-5 hours :lol: From Milan to Zurich it's about 4 hours and really worthwhile for it's one of the world's most famous train routes (Gotthardbahn) which will be soon enrolling as UNESCO world herritage - go there now before the base tunnel will open that will cross the alps just for 55km underground and you won't see anything anymore  If you are not sure about Switzerland but want to visit one city you can choose between Zurich (nightlife, culture and shopping) or Luzern (mountains, old town and big tourist center). Most foreign tourists go to Interlaken - it's only worth for the panorama or go up the Jungfrau but it's toooooooooooooooooooo expensive. If you like bombastic old towns go to Bern.

But I would say if you are not sure about it - at least cross the country from Milano over Lugano through the Gotthard to Zurich and you will have a great first impression without losing too much time (Munich is again some 4 hours from Zurich and in another 2-3 you are in Salzburg) 

About the German cities - leave out Frankfurt, that's only a cold business town for a tourist (although it has some decent life but as an outsider it's not easy). I would rank the German cities as follows:
1 - Hamburg (a MUST, best city in all aspects and you can spend a week seeing a lot of stuff!)
2 - Berlin (always interesting, good nightlife and lots of museums)
3 - München (similar to Berlin, but with a nicer atmosphere, don't let out Dachau concentration camp although the locals will try to talk it out of your mind as pathetic and depressing)
4 - Köln (alone for the old town and the cathedral worth a trip)
5 - Freiburg (the richest but smaller student city close to Basel, but very beautiful and relaxing but I heard with a good nighlife)

I don't know Düsseldorf, Leipzig or Dresden, so I don't want to give a comment on them.


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## Zaqattaq (Nov 17, 2004)

Here is what I would do

Get a EURAIL pass which I think you can only get from the United States but maybe you can work something out, you are a US citizen right samsonyuen?
Anyway I am sure you can find something like that in Europe, it will just cost more. Get one for all of Eurpe or a particular region. You can also put together a collection of countries you want to cover and then maybe pay for the cheaper trips. Then fly easyjet,ryanair,wizzair, any of those to a starting point in Europe since it is expensive to take the train from london and you dont want to bother with a ferry. Then once you get to a train station look at the board and take which ever destination captures your interest. Just do that the whole time, travel by fate. You can also use easyjet as an air taxi for longer trips. Should be fun, sorry to hear your leaving London.

http://www.eurail.com/
http://www.raileurope.com/us/index.htm


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

Kuesel said:


> 1 - Hamburg (a MUST, best city in all aspects and you can spend a week seeing a lot of stuff!)



Thanks for the compliments.  
My suggestion if you want to come to Hamburg and experience the nightlife here: spend your time in Hamburg on friday and saturday. During the world cup a nationwide survey was made among the foreign guests and Hamburg came out as the host city with the best parties. 
There is an EC train going from Vienna and one from Budapest via Prague, Dresden and Berlin to Hamburg. Then continue to Cologne, from there to Amsterdam, Brussels, back to London (all by train).
About Lüneburg near Hamburg: It has the highest pub density in whole Germany and is one of the few german towns which survived WW2 without damage. You could take the commuter train from Hamburg (30min), walk around a little in the old town (1,5 hours), drink a refreshing beer (30min) and take the next commuter train back to Hamburg (30min).

@zaqattac: the Eurail equivalent for europeans is Interrail, which is afaik actually cheaper than Eurail. http://www.interrail.net/. the global pass (1 month) costs for UK citizens under 26 years 285 pounds, for those older than 26 405 pounds.


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## Zaqattaq (Nov 17, 2004)

Thanks Digger, might be helpful in the far off future.


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

Interestingly enough, they have the Eurail pass, but for people who have lived in Europe for six months or more, called the Interrail pass, which is actually a bit cheaper. It's £690 for all zones on Interrail and £869 on Eurail. I'm just stuck on where to go. Lots of places that have one thing that's special (Bilbao, Köln, etc.).


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## Zaqattaq (Nov 17, 2004)

You also have to consider the cities you must see before you die:

Barcelona
Florence
Rome
Amsterdam
Paris?


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## cellist (Apr 5, 2006)

zaqattaq said:


> You also have to consider the cities you must see before you die:
> 
> Barcelona
> Florence
> ...



I would add Vilnius,Riga,Tallinn,Krakow,Prague,Budapest,Milan,Dresden,Madrid,Croatia(everything),Gdansk,Nida,Brussell,Geneva,Athens,Istanbul,Cote D'Azure


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

About the last two posts:

Geneva: no, it's a great city but very expensive and much too snobby and cold. Got to Zurich or Lyon istead! Or for the landscape Lugano or Luzern.

Florence: if you have to choses between it and Venice or Rome or Bologna, jump it. Tourist trap made out of history but in fact it's a smoghole - don't, just don't drive in there if not necessary, you wouldn't even understand the street signs :lol: 

Amsterdam: nothing against it but it's extremly overrated in my eyes and for sure not so far ahead of London, Hamburg or Zurich as many people think (apart from the really great but packed museums) - and the people can be a real pita  If you go to the Netherlands, pass one, two days there but visit especially also cities as Delft, Den Haag, Rotterdam (the latter two especially because of the modern architecture) and Utrecht.

Milan: as Florence - it has some worth to see sites but it's a cold business city. Real northern Italian life you can have more relaxed in Como or on the Garda lake.

It depends really on what you are looking for in places you visit and have to make a selection. If you want to see real Italy, don't visit Milano, if you want to see France, don't spend too long only in Paris. Especially in the south the people are warm and friendly, lifestyle is cooler and the clime and food better. Same goes for Geneva: it's more like a smaller Paris, but it's not really Switzerland as you expect it. But I don't want to start a CvsC here. It's just personal recommendations and not a general justifying


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## Castle_Bravo (Jan 6, 2006)

I have seen many cities in west-europe on different lists, but in Central europe it's also nice  . I think that those four cities are the most worth seeing:
Cracow: http://www.krakow.pl/en/ 
Warsaw: http://www.e-warsaw.pl/index.php
Prague: http://www.prague.cz/
Budapest: http://www.budapestinfo.hu/en/

The hotels, food, public transport etc. is much cheaper than in west europe.


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## Bitxofo (Feb 3, 2005)

zaqattaq said:


> You also have to consider the cities you must see before you die:
> 
> Barcelona
> Florence
> ...


Add Istanbul and Saint Petersburg too, 2 of the most beautiful cities in the whole world!
:yes:


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## grachtengordeldier (Mar 7, 2006)

So, Samsonyen...after heaving read all of this...you can go EVERYWHERE in Europe...it's beautiful and great everywhere!
Not much help heh?


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

^^ I'd rather say it is reassuring that no matter where you go, you'll have a nice time.


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

I agree, there's lots of places I'd love to go to, but will have to wait til next time. As I'm limited by time (and also where the rail pass will allow me), I'm going to have to narrow my choices. The Interrail pass doesn't go into the Yugoslav republics (I believe), Poland, the Baltics, and Russia. Also, I don't want to repeat places I've gone quite a few times (hence skipping Paris if I don't have to go through it, and avoiding Venice). I've been to Florence (which I loved) and Rome before, but my partner hasn't, hence why we won't miss it. How is Napoli and Pompeii (I think it'll be worth the 2 hour train from Rome)?

I posed this question, but I think it was missed, *Is there direct train service from Lisbon to Seville, and Nice to Milan?* Thanks!


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

^ I believe it includes the former Yugoslavia. Here are all the countries: http://www.interrail.net/index2.php?language=en just choose 'countries'


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## Zaqattaq (Nov 17, 2004)

Yes there is a train from Milan to Nice (4:45 hours or so)

For the other one I think you have to switch in Madrid

http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/fares_schedules/index.htm


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## Bitxofo (Feb 3, 2005)

samsonyuen said:


> I agree, there's lots of places I'd love to go to, but will have to wait til next time. As I'm limited by time (and also where the rail pass will allow me), I'm going to have to narrow my choices. The Interrail pass doesn't go into the Yugoslav republics (I believe), Poland, the Baltics, and Russia. Also, I don't want to repeat places I've gone quite a few times (hence skipping Paris if I don't have to go through it, and avoiding Venice). I've been to Florence (which I loved) and Rome before, but my partner hasn't, hence why we won't miss it. How is Napoli and Pompeii (I think it'll be worth the 2 hour train from Rome)?
> 
> I posed this question, but I think it was missed, *Is there direct train service from Lisbon to Seville, and Nice to Milan?* Thanks!


NO direct trains from Lisbon to Seville!
:nono:
You can make:
Lisbon-Faro-Huelva-Seville
:yes:
But it takes 10 or 12 hours by train.
:runaway:


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

The fastest link between Lisbon and Sevilla I could find is a 14 hrs (!) connection via Caceres and Merida.

There is however an EC train from Nice-Ville to Milano Centrale with 13 stops along the route... As mentioned before, this takes 4.45 hrs.


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## staff (Oct 23, 2004)

samsonyuen,
I saw you excluded the Nordic countries in your upcoming trip, and I can understand that. But Copenhagen-Malmö (+ the rest of Denmark - but there's not terribly much to see there ) is actually in continental Europe and very close to Hamburg and Berlin. 
Only a couple of hours by train.

It's highly recommendable!


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

davidkunz/VIE said:


> The fastest link between Lisbon and Sevilla I could find is a 14 hrs (!) connection via Caceres and Merida.


See, that's why I left off Portugal at my first post - as it seems it's not better than in "my" time. The inner spanish and portuguese train-network seems not to have improved since then  The worst exprience I made was Ireland - you ALWAYS had to go to Dublin to change into another city - even if it's from Galway to Kilarney!!!! And then the city has for every train track another station, that is impossible to reach in time for the few connections that exist, so you were always stranded in this dirthole. But maybe things changed... I hope for the Irish whose life quality also increased a lot since then


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

> you ALWAYS had to go to Dublin to change into another city - even if it's from Galway to Kilarney!!!!


That's hilarious. But I assume things might have changed. 

And probably you would have been better off with some bus service?


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

There were indeed some bus services, but very marginal and extremly expensive (out of interrail). But it was 15 years ago, things probably changed a lot since then - Dublin got more clean and modern, the Irish became the richest Europeans in the meantime etc... guess the infrastructure also was growing 

But if you look of what happened to England after the privatizing of the trains... the pure horror and chaos! Hope that other countries learn from mistakes like that.


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

I'm surprised (and disappointed) there isn't a more direct Seville to Lisbon service. I guess I'll have to go as a day trip via Madrid or something. 

Yes, I've left off the Nordic countries. I know it's close, and in Denmark's case, connected, but I just don't have the time this time. I might/probably won't even have the time (this time) for Hamburg.


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

Verso said:


> ^ I believe it includes the former Yugoslavia. Here are all the countries: http://www.interrail.net/index2.php?language=en just choose 'countries'


You're right, it includes Poland too (which I didn't think). It makes it even harder for me then, I guess!


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## Bitxofo (Feb 3, 2005)

davidkunz/VIE said:


> The fastest link between Lisbon and Sevilla I could find is a 14 hrs (!) connection via Caceres and Merida.
> ...


Wrong!!
:nono:
You can make:
Lisbon-Madrid: 9h 42min.
Madrid-Seville: 2h 30min.

It takes 12 hours and 12 minutes by train. By car, it is 4 hours approx.
:wink2:


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## Rachmaninov (Aug 5, 2004)

Unless you are really into Greek history and architecture, I suggest you skip Athens.


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

Rachmaninov said:


> Unless you are really into Greek history and architecture, I suggest you skip Athens.


Dito: go to Santorini or Crete instead!


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## OettingerCroat (May 24, 2005)

samson GO TO BLED!!!! you'll love it!

stop by Zagreb and Rijeka in Croatia too, theyre very very close to the slovenian border.


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## OettingerCroat (May 24, 2005)

Rachmaninov said:


> Unless you are really into Greek history and architecture, I suggest you skip Athens.


absolutely correct


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## Canadian Chocho (May 18, 2006)

From all the people that I know that have done this, they all say that they enjoyed Switzerland the most.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

bitxofo said:


> Wrong!!
> :nono:
> You can make:
> Lisbon-Madrid: 9h 42min.
> ...


That is a very crap train connection!!

Are there plans to make it quicker, maybe even a direct line??


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## MoreOrLess (Feb 17, 2005)

If you've got a choice between Lisbon and Porto I'd definately recommend the latter, the center seemed much more compact and historical to me which I'd guess would suit you if your not going to have a car.

Copenhagen is very underated as a tourist destination aswell IMHO, like Porto its really compact with tons of things to see within walking distance in the center.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

OettingerCroat said:


> samson GO TO BLED!!!! you'll love it!
> 
> stop by Zagreb and Rijeka in Croatia too, theyre very very close to the slovenian border.


OC, are you sure you didn't mistake this thread for the 'Adopt a Country' thread?  Anyway, thanks for the suggestion  and yes, as I've already said, Zagreb is quite underrated, and Rijeka also seems very nice from my latest findings.


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## Bitxofo (Feb 3, 2005)

Jonesy55 said:


> That is a very crap train connection!!
> 
> Are there plans to make it quicker, maybe even a direct line??


Yes, if you can pay 300€ or more...
:runaway:


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

bitxofo said:


> Yes, if you can pay 300€ or more...
> :runaway:


Er, no thanks, i'll cycle


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## TeKnO_Lx (Oct 19, 2004)

samsonyuen said:


> *I'm surprised (and disappointed) there isn't a more direct Seville to Lisbon service. I guess I'll have to go as a day trip via Madrid or something.*
> 
> Yes, I've left off the Nordic countries. I know it's close, and in Denmark's case, connected, but I just don't have the time this time. I might/probably won't even have the time (this time) for Hamburg.


u can easily go to Algarve by train at most at Vila real Santo Antonio (near spanish border)



maybe this could help

"I took the train from Lisboa Oriente to Faro: 
08:21 h Lisboa Oriente departure 
13:00 h Faro arrival 
http://www.cp.pt/ (Alfa Pendular type is the fastest/more confortable)

I stayed one night in Faro at Residential Adelaide. 

From Faro I took a bus to Sevilla: 
08:20 h Faro departure 
13:00 h Sevilla arrival 
http://www.eva-bus.net/ 

But there seems to be one direct bus per day between Lisboa and Sevilla. It also departs from Lisboa Oriente bus station and is of this company: 

http://www.anibal.net/lineas_regulares.htm "

Cheers


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## Bitxofo (Feb 3, 2005)

Jonesy55 said:


> Er, no thanks, i'll cycle


I wanted to say direct flight: by 300€.

No direct train planned yet...
:dunno:


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

A couple of years ago I went from faro to Sevilla bytaking the train to Vila real, ferry to Ayamonte in Spain, then bus via Huelva.


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## LuckyLuke (Mar 29, 2005)

Take a boat trip through the Upper Middle Rhine Valley or maybe even from Switzerland to Cologne/ Düsseldorf...

Following the 1,320-km course of the Rhine from its source in Switzerland to the river's mouth in the North Sea, the most interesting section is without doubt the Middle Rhine and the Rhine Valley between Mainz and Bonn. This area where the Rhine cuts through the Slate Mountains between Bingen and Koblenz is also part of the Upper Middle Rhine Valley UNESCO world heritage site. With its many castles, it is the epitome of a romantic German landscape. Few other regions around the world are so densely packed with authentic historical attractions. The Song of the Nibelungs, written in 1200, tells how the sinister Hagen, said to be from the Hunsrück region, sank the legendary Nibelungs' treasure in the Rhine. The narrowness of the valley, the untamed river waters and the mysterious echo all play their part in the myth of the Loreley, the blond siren on the rock who once lured sailors to their death, here where the Rhine is at its narrowest, with her beguiling song and mysterious beauty. The legend is as old as time itself. There is still a Loreley today, but she is not in the business of enticing people to their doom.

Nowadays the Loreley open-air theatre hosts rock, pop and folklore events. This region has been shaped by myths, sagas, legends and fairytales, not to mention historical and political events, medieval battles, religious Electoral feuds and spiritual and military conflicts. The knights brandishing their swords and clanking round the castles in their armour are long gone. Horses' hooves are no longer heard in the courtyards; the minnesingers' lutes are silent. However, the castles continue to dream and you secretly wish that their walls could tell a story. The Rhine has more castles along its length than any other river in the world. Built to protect power and possessions, they were not only well-fortified residences and refuges, but also lucrative customs posts and hideouts for infamous robber barons.

http://www.germany-tourism.de/ENG/destination_germany/master_tlregion-id139.htm


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

I'm starting to fret now. The reason I'm getting such a long time away is because I'm moving from Jolly ol' London to Toronto. I'm lining up a transfer in the same company, but haven't gotten any confirmation yet. So that leaves quite a few unvariables: Where to go, Where to stay (need to book hostels), and How long I will be able to stay (because I don't know what job, if any I have to go back to!). I'm considering shortening my trip to a more manageable two weeks in Italy and Central Europe. More news to follow!


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## Matthieu (Mar 7, 2004)

If you can pass over the Millau Viaduct, don't miss it.


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

Wow, that looks really cool, but I won't be driving any (hopefully). I wonder if any trains will pass it...


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## Matthieu (Mar 7, 2004)

No, it's only roads.


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## Liwwadden (Nov 12, 2005)

If I were you, I would get a car en drive, and just see where it gets you. If you do so, I would have a few reccomandations, might you be close. 

*France: Normandy: Bayeux (**** the Tappisery, just a nice town ), Trouville-Deauville (''Paris at the Atlantic''), Arromanches (Omaha Beach)
*Holland: You can't miss us! Amsterdam & Rotterdam rock!, Leeuwarden (my hometown :colgate:, but seriously nice city. Great @ day & night , also take a boat route throught the canals.)
*Italy: Florence, really great city. And Rome, for the history and stuff. 
*Danmark: Als (quiet, but nice. Don't miss Sonderborg, at mainstreet they have fabulous pizza! :tongue2
*France: Don't miss Monaco, one of a kind experience. 

Have a nice trip!


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

^^ Deauville, Florence and Monaco are not really breathtaking. Well, Monaco is breathtakingly ugly, Florence is breathtakingly touristy and Deauville is breathtakingly snobby.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

If u like breathtakingly snobby stuff, come to the allegedly biggest shopping center in Europe, BTC City in Ljubljana, Slovenia, u'll like it. And if u like being killed, u'll love it; yesterday I almost got killed there myself, sitting at the edge of a roundabout, the I-guess-popular place for race-idiots :weird: :weird: 

Cheers


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

davidkunz/VIE said:


> ^^ Deauville, Florence and Monaco are not really breathtaking. Well, Monaco is breathtakingly ugly, Florence is breathtakingly touristy and Deauville is breathtakingly snobby.


I agree with you to a certain degree. I prefer Bologna and Venice over Florence - it's really a tourist trap and smoggy place. Instead of Monaco I also would say Cannes or St.Tropez (although they are snobby as well but more beautiful).


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## Liwwadden (Nov 12, 2005)

Monaco is snobby indeed, but if you have a Europe tour, you can't miss it, right. And offcourse, Florence is touristy, but still nice (enough). And Deauville, yeah Deauville is snobby, maybe a bit to. But I liked it. Trouville, only a river separates it with Deauville, is better. Nice town with fabulous houses (and cars ).


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## Bitxofo (Feb 3, 2005)

^^And Monaco is NOT France, it is an independent nation!


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

^ Especially NATION!


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

double post


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

If you are going by car, you can't miss the german autobahn. No general speed limit, but take care that you don't choose a heavily used strip of the autobahn-network to avoid the risk of congestion. 

And some shameless self-promotion  : A guy from Oxford told me once: "I always told my friends: Forget Soho in London, forget Bangkok, leave Amsterdam aside and come to Hamburg! It's just crazy here! You have the Reeperbahn, but then you also have all the sidestreets there packed with pubs etc.!"


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

DiggerD21 said:


> If you are going by car, you can't miss the german autobahn. No general speed limit, but take care that you don't choose a heavily used strip of the autobahn-network to avoid the risk of congestion.


And where exactly is that?  especially in summer


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## Liwwadden (Nov 12, 2005)

Verso said:


> ^ Especially NATION!


sorry :tongue2:


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

Verso said:


> And where exactly is that?  especially in summer


I'm thinking of some remote Autobahnen in east frisia, maybe the A31, which is one of the least used ones, especially at night.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

^ loool, do you know why A31 is "empty"? Because "noone" needs it.  Ok, a little joke, but why would 'samsonyuen' be interested in that motorway/freeway, since it doesn't look very transit to me? I remember driving on A1 once (somewhere between Cologne (Köln) and Luxembourg); I thought wow, I'm driving on A*1*, but then almost NO traffic! Interesting... Anyway, but you still have to get to A31, using some overcrowded motorways. And I don't think 'samsonyuen' will be travelling by car...


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

ferdinand Sluiter said:


> sorry :tongue2:


Haha, that post was referring to 'bitxofo', not you! A sexy tongue though...


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

Verso said:


> ^ loool, do you know why A31 is "empty"? Because "noone" needs it.  Ok, a little joke, but why would 'samsonyuen' be interested in that motorway/freeway, since it doesn't look very transit to me?


Exactly. That means no one is in the way when you go full-speed.


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## DonQui (Jan 10, 2005)

It really depends on what type of traveller you are. You seem to have traveled much, so you probably know what you like to do. Personally, if I were you, I would pick at maximum 10 destinations. After having done the let's-see-a-major-capital-in-two-days bit, versus having done the more relaxed approach, I much prefer the more relaxed approach.

I would pick if I were you, starting in geographical order

1) Madrid with daytrip to Seville
2) Barcelona
3) Marseille (never been, but recommended to me) 
4) Nice (never been, but recommended to me)
5) Rome
6) other Italian city (Venice struck me as a tourist trap, as did Florence, so perhaps take other people's advice and go Bologna)
7) Switzerland
8 and 9) a couple of German cities (out of my leauge here, talk to Luky Luke)
10) some place in eastern europe.

And leave it that. More than 10 places IMO the trip will not be enjoyable.


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## panamaboy9016 (Mar 29, 2006)

*Um..*

Visit places,and PARTY!!!!!!!!!


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## bluenoser (Dec 4, 2004)

Amsterdam, no question.


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

Well, it seems I've now got 20 days from 30 I'm going to have to decide what region to disinclude now


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## Matthieu (Mar 7, 2004)

Southern France is fantastic but the area to explore is huge so drop it, not to be included in a 20 days european trip.


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

It looks like we're getting a 22-day trip. I think the two regions pass that we're going to take will be Italy, Slovenia, Greece and Turkey and ____________. It's either going to be the Poland/Czech/Slovakia/Croatia/Hungary/Bosnia-Herzegovina or Spain/Portugal/Morocco. I would love to do the German/Austria/Switzerland/Denmark, Bulgaria, Macdonia, Romania, Serbia and Monenegra, or France/Benelux or Norway/Sweden/Finland, but I think I need more time for them.


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## Bitxofo (Feb 3, 2005)

DonQui said:


> It really depends on what type of traveller you are. You seem to have traveled much, so you probably know what you like to do. Personally, if I were you, I would pick at maximum 10 destinations. After having done the let's-see-a-major-capital-in-two-days bit, versus having done the more relaxed approach, I much prefer the more relaxed approach.
> 
> I would pick if I were you, starting in geographical order
> 
> ...


Choose Lisbon, much better than Marseilles or Nice!


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## panamaboy9016 (Mar 29, 2006)

*Hmm...*

With only 1500 Euros I don't think you can do it, with 3,000 10 Euros a day it's perfect! But PARTY!!!


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

bitxofo said:


> Choose Lisbon, much better than Marseilles or Nice!


Agree! I think only Barcelona is a real rival to it on the subcontinent


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

Does anyone know how far it is from Patras to Corfu town in Greece, and if there are trains that go through?


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## Bitxofo (Feb 3, 2005)

^^303 kms.

It is by boat, 6 hours.
:wink2:


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

Cool, thanks! So I guess there's no train, then.


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## Bitxofo (Feb 3, 2005)

^^I am not really sure, maybe...
:dunno:
Ask Greek forumers!


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## Thorin (May 8, 2006)

DonQui said:


> 6) other Italian city (Venice struck me as a tourist trap, as did Florence, so perhaps take other people's advice and go Bologna)


Florence and Venice are touristy, but you can't miss them. Milan ISN'T a cold industrial and commercial city, this is a stereotype.
Other beautiful and less known city in Italy are Bologna, Verona, Siena, Ravenna, Pisa.
If you have enough time, take a trip to Garda Lake and to the Dolomites.

If your trip is Nice - Italy - Ljubiana you can do Milan - Bologna - Florence - Pisa - Rome - Siena - ravenna - Verona [and Garda Lake] - Venice and then to Ljubiana.


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

No way I'm going to Venice a third time! It's lovely, but there's just not that much to do there. I will go to Florence and Siena again though. 

I think we're leaning towards the North/Eastern Region for our second region (Poland, etc.). Now, to plan.


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## jrodrigo (Apr 11, 2006)

lo digo en español y el que no lo entienda que se busque un traductor:
Sobre el tema de la inmigración en Madrid, es algo que ha surgido mucho antes en otras capitales europeas, como por ejemplo Londres, motivo: paises viejos y con poco indice de natalidad. El primer periodo de adaptación es dificil y conflictivo esta claro. Pero todo acaba teniendo solución. Lo que no tiene solución son los ingleses en Benidorm año tras año, cada 5 minutos no para de sonar la ambulancia por los comas etílicos que se pillan. Llevais mas de medio siglo visitando Benidorm y todavía no sabeis beber? en fin, España es mi país y lo defenderé a muerte, pero no critiqueis tanto y ser un poquito mas sensatos.


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## Bitxofo (Feb 3, 2005)

^^TROLL!!^^
:sleepy:


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

> I say in Spanish and the one to it that does not understand it that a
> translator looks for: On the subject of immigration in Madrid, he is
> something that has arisen long before in other European capitals, like for example London, reason: countries


Huh?


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## DonQui (Jan 10, 2005)

I don't think he posted in the right thread. Simply ignore that post as it is COMPLETELY nonsensical.

Any updates on the plans samson? :?


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## Billabong (Aug 4, 2006)

I recomend:
Forget Portugal and begin ur trip in Seville (fly from London to Seville, over 60 Euros)
Then go on to Madrid (use a very fast train, AVE) then Barcelona, and then France, Italy....u know
If u look it in a map its a perfec line (south, middle and north Spain).


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## Bitxofo (Feb 3, 2005)

Billabong said:


> I recomend:
> Forget Portugal and begin ur trip in Seville (fly from London to Seville, over 60 Euros)
> Then go on to Madrid (use a very fast train, AVE) then Barcelona, and then France, Italy....u know
> If u look it in a map its a perfec line (south, middle and north Spain).


Forget Portugal?
:crazy:
Lisbon is almost mandatory! One of the most beautiful cities in Europe!! :yes:
:wink2:


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## daniel322 (Mar 3, 2006)

Billabong said:


> I recomend:
> Forget Portugal and begin ur trip in Seville (fly from London to Seville, over 60 Euros)
> Then go on to Madrid (use a very fast train, AVE) then Barcelona, and then France, Italy....u know
> If u look it in a map its a perfec line (south, middle and north Spain).


say what??? forget portugal?? :nuts:

take a look at this mate


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

I will go to Portugal, but it'll have to do be at a later time, unfortunately. It's now most likely going to be: Italy, Greece, Turkey, Slovenia (one rail region) and either:

Germany/Denmark/Austria/Switzerland
Czech/Slovakia/Bosnia & Herzegovina/Croatia/Poland/Hungary + Probably a quick coach trip to Vienna. 

It's just better for time. Spain/Portugal/Morocco would take me too much time, and I don't want to rush


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## Billabong (Aug 4, 2006)

Oh my god.....i just....u know....forget portugal by now.....i think there are places nicer than it (i have been there twice and i dont think its one of the most beautiful places in the world). Spain is better(my opinion). And if u begin in Spain u will be able to do a very good trip around europe (Spain, France, Austria, Hungary, Greece and Turkey)
That's just my opinion


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## Billabong (Aug 4, 2006)

sorry i made mistake with countries wich u can visit, i forgot Italy


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## ted5012 (Jun 21, 2005)

Visit *Krakow* - the best magic city in Central Europe  

International Travel
World's Best Cities - 2006

Top 10 European Best Cities

Florence 87.09 
Rome 86.15 
Venice 82.97 
Istanbul 82.74 
*Krakow* 81.89 
Paris 81.67 
Prague 81.64 
Sienna 81.63 
Seville 81.22 
Barcelona 81.20 

Source: Travel & Leisure Magazine
The World's Best Awards, August 2006


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

Probably. That's the closest city to Auschwitz, right? What's the most efficient route to the best cities in Poland? That's a pretty tall order, I guess.


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## Bitxofo (Feb 3, 2005)

^^Many trains from Warsaw to Krakow every day.


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## Slodi (Feb 25, 2006)

^^ Many flights from Warsaw either to Krakow or Katowice as well
Krakow Balice Airport - Auschwitz 55 km
Katowice Pyrzowice Airport - Auschwitz 70 km

LOT Polish Airlines


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## Metropolitan (Sep 21, 2004)

If I would have to spend one month in Europe, I guess the best solution would be probably to start and finish the trip in the same airport in order to get a return flight ticket (much cheaper) and make a circle during my trip. For that airport, pick the cheapest ticket you can, usually it makes you land in one of the three major European airports (London, Paris, Frankfurt).

I wouldn't advise Paris Charles de Gaulle as I've been there this week and it's really a crappy airport (The terminal 1, the one for international airlines, is crappy, dirty, outdated, overcrowded and totally disorganized)... but it depends after all more in what you want to see then about the esthetics of the airport. So it's up to you.

Be careful though, Europe is bigger than you can expect it. In my flight back from Singapore I discussed with my neighbour who believed only a couple of hour of driving was enough to go from Paris to Provence, while there's actually about 700 km between both locations.

If I say you this, it's simply because it's not wise to think you could go from Lisbon to St Petersburg in only 30 days. You would have necessarily to sacrifice the most distant locations in order to not lose your time in trains instead of visiting. Furthermore, I wouldn't advise you Russia anyway because you would need a special visa for that country which is difficult to get.

Generally speaking, the Eurail pass is clearly the cheapest solution and also a clever way to see Europe from the inside (actually, driving is even better for this but it would be more expensive since you'd need to rent a car and not necessarily faster).

That would be my 2 cents.


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## Bitxofo (Feb 3, 2005)

^^You don't need to come back to the same airport to find a cheap ticket!
:nono:
For example:
You can arrive to Paris and return from Amsterdam for the same price of a return ticket to Paris.

Air fares and and air tickets are very cheap in Europe, if you book in advance. And the are many low cost airlines, too.
:yes:
I work in Barcelona Airport.
:wink2:


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

Now that I've decided to go to Poland, Czech, Slovakia, Croatia, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Slovenia, Italy, Greece and Turkey...Who can recommend the best route? Keeping in mind I have to fly from London to wherever I start, and fly from wherever I end to London, as cheaply as possibly?  I think starting in Poland is the best, but I'm not sure how that would end...


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## Izmirli (Mar 4, 2006)

Trying to make a loop to get a return flight not really worth it. Because you're not planning to visit Bulgaria/Romania, it would be a long, but cheap journey back to Poland.

Why don't you follow that order, start in Poland and end in Istanbul. Easyjet flies Istanbul-London (Sabiha Gokcen airport in Istanbul, Luton airport in London) and it also flies London-Warsaw and London-Krakow. 

Have fun!


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

I spent almost ten hours yesterday on thinking of where to go, and for how long, and am pretty sure on the route. Fly to Istanbul, where we'll be for the next day as well, take the overnight to Thessaloniki, then go to Athens, Patras, ferry to Bari. Train to Naples, up to Rome, Florence (Pisa and Siena), Milan, to Ljubljana, Zagreb or Split (not sure which or both), Budapest, Bratislava, Vienna (it's not in my train pass region, but how could I pass it up when it's so close?), Prague, Poland (not sure where yet. Probably Wraclow, Krakow/Auschwitz, and Warsaw). 

How are Zagreb and Split? Are they both worth the trip (Split in particular is far)?
And which cities in Poland?


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

Warsaw for highrises, Krakow and Wroclaw for the old towns, Auschwitz memorial and this gorgeous (Wielizca?) salt mine.


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## Forza Raalte (Sep 18, 2004)

I've been to Split and I was not amazed by it. The center itself is pretty small. If you go to Zagreb I suggest you to go to Plitvicka Jezera, I've been there myself two weeks ago and it was way better than any city I've seen in Croatia! It's a perfect daytrip, I spend 6 hours in the park. 
(Holland Hoogbouw forums > Fotoforum > Forza op vakantie: Plitvicka Jezera ) 

I haven't been to Zagreb but I've read alot about it. It's pretty close to Ljubljana (which on of my favourite cities in Europe) so distance shouldn't be a problem. I think Zagreb is a charming city, beautiful but without real landmarks.


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## Slodi (Feb 25, 2006)

samsonyuen said:


> And which cities in Poland?


Take a direct flight from London to Gdansk (well known city for its Old Town, Solidarity etc.), then you can take a plane to travel south to Warsaw. Then again south to Krakow. Then I would recommend Wroclaw but I am afraid there is no direct flight from Krakow to Wroclaw. And then from Wroclaw to Prague and you will need some help from somebody from there 
Between all above mentioned cities in Poland you can travel by train but I would not recommend that unless you want to encounter a real Poland.


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

Why take a flight between the polish cities, when he wants to use the Interrail pass? Even without Interrail the train is much cheaper than a flight.


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## Slodi (Feb 25, 2006)

^^ Sorry, lost in conversation. Yep, he can take train between polish cities and enjoy the country.


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## chijeff20 (Aug 14, 2006)

I just got back last night from my trip to central europe, living in america its a big difference, all my family lives in poland so i visit them about every 2 years.. make sure to go to krakow, aushwitz,gdansk if you can, also go to the wieliczka salt mine right outside of krakow, buses go like every 20 min, even to aushwitz every 30 min, also try to go to zakopane for a day, a beautiful town in the mountains, when you take a train from krakow to warsaw make sure to take the express one, it took me 2 hours to get to warsaw so its not bad.


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