# COLOGNE | Public Transport



## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

> That's not really a helpful comment.


I'm not here to "help" people. :|


----------



## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Took those when I was there in August:


----------



## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)




----------



## wonwiin (Jan 12, 2008)

Isek said:


> Anyway i do not find Cologne's systems too much impressive. Despite the S-Bahn they are lacking of somehow "fast" transit...


What would "fast" transit look like?


----------



## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

He is probably talking about a proper U-Bahn system like in Munich, Berlin, Hamburg or Nuremberg. However, I do not see a reason why they spend so much money on something the city does not need.


----------



## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

jarbury said:


> I figured as much
> 
> A pretty damn comprehensive network for a city which is smaller than Auckland.


?? Sorry ?? Hmmm, well no actually, you are comparing Apple's with Oranges. Auckland's 1.4million population is the metropolitan area figure which you are comparing with Cologne's city proper population.

This is more or less how it goes:

Auckland city proper: 438,000 (density of 687.8km²)
Cologne city proper: 995,397 (density of 2,457km²)
(Density plays a big role in the success of public transportation)

Auckland Urban Area: 1.3million people
Cologne Urban Area: 2million people
(The method urban area's are defined does differ dramatically between country's, and Cologne is a complicated model to study as unlike Auckland, a break in the urban area may only be 200m and then another large urban area might begin but not be included in the population)

Auckland Metropolitan Area: 1.4million
Cologne (Part of the Rhein Ruhr Metropolitan Area): 12million

There are approx 20million people within 1hour from central Cologne
http://www.expoxxi.de/eoev21/client/en/cologne.aspx?page=35

The Metropolitan area does play a large roll in all of the public transport facilities that are available in these cities including Cologne. For instance, Dusseldorf is a mere 20minutes away by train. I know people who commute between Cologne and Dusseldorf and of course they continue to their final destination by local transport like the U-bahn in each city.

So no. Auckland is not in any measure or form larger than Cologne.


----------



## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

^^ In fairness though, if we are to use the whole of the Rhein Ruhr Metropolitan Area, we should consider the transit systems for the whole metropolitan area - all the Stadtbahn, tram and S-bahn networks across the region rather than just Köln.

Either way you cut it, they do very well as far as public transit goes, especially when compared to the debacle that is Auckland and transport.



Grunnen said:


> Well, especially with public transport that is not entirely true, I think. Due to the stupid tariff system, in most cases it is quite unattractive to visit Cologne when you come from Düsseldorf or the Ruhr Area.


I thought the VRR tariff system was fine. It's integrated and zoned according to how far you travel. Sounds no different to the system used in every single Western European metropolitan area (and certainly more cohesive than most British transit systems outside of London. Try travelling between Liverpool and Manchester on one ticket easily and you'll see how disorganised fare collection really is).


----------



## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

Bahnsteig4 said:


> He is probably talking about a proper U-Bahn system like in Munich, Berlin, Hamburg or Nuremberg. However, I do not see a reason why they spend so much money on something the city does not need.



^^
Well, since the new Nord-Süd tunnel project is completed the situation will get improved a lot. The travel speed of Cologne's Stadtbahn system is not very fast now.

Anyway. If you would start from zero Cologne should build core lines (let's say three diameter lines) made up of fully independent lines with an station distance of around 500 m to 800 m and a max speed of 80 km/h.


----------



## Grunnen (Jan 16, 2008)

Svartmetall said:


> I thought the VRR tariff system was fine. It's integrated and zoned according to how far you travel. Sounds no different to the system used in every single Western European metropolitan area (and certainly more cohesive than most British transit systems outside of London. Try travelling between Liverpool and Manchester on one ticket easily and you'll see how disorganised fare collection really is).


Yes, there's nothing wrong with the VRR tariff system. Except that Cologne and Bonn aren't part of it. 

The Cologne Stadtbahn network itself is great though, I think. It is reasonably fast and has a very good coverage.


----------



## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

Grunnen said:


> Yes, there's nothing wrong with the VRR tariff system. Except that Cologne and Bonn aren't part of it.
> 
> The Cologne Stadtbahn network itself is great though, I think. It is reasonably fast and has a very good coverage.


I thought that the S-bahn in Cologne was covered by VRR? I know that Cologne itself is VRS, but I thought the S-bahn overlapped. I'm probably wrong though.


----------



## sarbaze tabarestan (Aug 14, 2008)

germany and cologne have one of the best subway,metro,....
system in the world!
so all discussions are bullshit cause i was in france and dubai,sydney,los angeles and new york and no one has a systemlike n germany!
we have the bést system of buses and trains!
they have a very high coordination!
for example if i use the train to some station there is always a bus station´next to it!
so nobody can rally compare germany to any other country!


----------



## thib8500 (Jun 12, 2006)

After all, you're right. Let's close the whole forum.:nuts:


----------



## sarbaze tabarestan (Aug 14, 2008)

yeaaaaaaaaaah germany rules baby:banana:


----------



## Falubaz (Nov 20, 2004)

sarbaze tabarestan said:


> germany and cologne have one of the best subway,metro,....
> system in the world!
> so all discussions are bullshit cause i was in france and dubai,sydney,los angeles and new york and no one has a systemlike n germany!
> we have the bést system of buses and trains!
> ...





sarbaze tabarestan said:


> yeaaaaaaaaaah germany rules baby:banana:


I was hoping u would post some nice pictures, maybe old maps and stuff instead of trolling and talking crap.
That's a shame.

btw. Could u remember me how long has been under construction the latest underground extention south from 'Dom' ? I's only 3.9km long tunel. They started in 2004 and it will last for next 3 years or so - in that time (i mean 3 years) the Spaniards built 41km of Metro Sur!

Has anyone pics? Köln looks like really pretty nice Stadtbahn stystem!

@Bahnsteig4 - u didn't disappointed me again! [auf dich kann man sich immer verlassen, Kumpel, wenn's um Fotos geht!  ]


----------



## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

Svartmetall said:


> ^^ In fairness though, if we are to use the whole of the Rhein Ruhr Metropolitan Area, we should consider the transit systems for the whole metropolitan area - all the Stadtbahn, tram and S-bahn networks across the region rather than just Köln.


If we did include all the transport systems of the Rhein Ruhr and make a single map, even with just the rail infrastructure, it would be large indeed.

My point was merely to correct jarbury on the population issue. Though I certainly don't blame him as it is a common mistake people make as most don't realize that different country's quote different definitions as their default choice. But looking at the whole picture brings everything into perspective.


----------



## staff (Oct 23, 2004)

Bahnsteig4 said:


> A very Chinese point of view, if I may say so.


You may not. Chinese cities are building the world's largest public transport systems on the planet as we speak.

Very unnecessary and indeed non-helpful post. It's not the first time I see derogatory comments against China and Chinese people from you.


----------



## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

:lol: Is there a significant higher percentage of threads within that subforum that turn rapidly into a "everything vs. everything" thread?? 


Pictures




























Station Leyendeckerstraße









Chorweiler









Neumarkt









yeah, graff all the way!









????? wtf!


----------



## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

> You may not.


Not _in_ China. Down here, I may. But thanks for your educational efforts.



> Chinese cities are building the world's largest public transport systems on the planet as we speak.


That's great for everybody - like I said. :cheers2: A big step forward!



> It's not the first time I see derogatory comments against China and Chinese people from you.


Sorry to hear you actually care about my comments - do I have to feel afraid now? Do you keep track of all critics of China's system? :lol: Good job. (Not Chinese people, btw. :|) Yeah, there are many things in China that worry me immensely, but since this is not a political thread, how about moving on to the topic? 



> Bahnsteig4 - u didn't disappointed me again!


Thanks! I aim to please.


----------



## staff (Oct 23, 2004)

^^
I don't think China needs your "worry"-- car ownership is very low and investments in public transportation are higher than anywhere else on the planet. Ever. Nothing to worry about.

Do whatever you like - just don't drive threads off topic with unnecessary and completely irrelevant comments about China. 
Start an own thread about "typical Chinese comments" (as if there could be anything "typical" in the behaviour of 1/5 of the world's population). Nice try attempting to disguise your generalizing "typically Chinese" comment as "criticism of the system", by the way. Always entertaining, that one.


Back to Köln...


----------



## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

I smell a lack of confidence on your side if you feel my comments are worth replying to.



> Back to Köln...


Excellent idea. Chinese topics are generally overrated, anyway. And obviously over here we are not informed well enough to judge properly.

Some pictures from this great site, for the lack of own pictures:
www.railfaneurope.net
An amazing source for pictures from all over Europe.


----------



## particlez (May 5, 2008)

^okay.. would you acknowledge that the difference in car ownership rates between the best served german cities like hanover and stuttgart, and something like bremen result in differing levels of transport patronage? you know their rates of automobile ownership are closely correlated with their respective PT effectiveness. and amongst wealthy cities (i.e. those with populations wealthy enough to afford the car) which have comprehensive transport systems, the degree of automobile penetration affects urban planning and the built environment? 

p.s. even if the average number of PT trips/day comes close to matching the entire population, the stats become less convincing if many commuters are patronizing park and rides. like the north american cities, many of the 'issues' with PT in europe exist in the newer, lower density burbs, where car ownership becomes more of a necessity. 

i did not intentionally wade into this dumbass argument. but then you guys had to get on leo_sh's residency after he/she initially made a cogent point about transportation. PT is invariably impacted by automobile penetration. THAT'S IT. i have no idea how anyone could argue against that.


----------



## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

particlez said:


> ^okay.. would you agree that the difference in car ownership rates between the best served germany cities like hanover and stuttgart, and something like bremen? you know their rates of automobile ownership are closely correlated with their respective PT effectiveness. and amongst wealthy cities (i.e. those with populations wealthy enough to afford the car) which have comprehensive transport systems, the degree of automobile penetration affects urban planning and the built environment?
> 
> i did not intentionally wade into this dumbass argument. but then you guys had to get on leo_sh's residency after he/she initially made a cogent point about transportation. PT is invariably impacted by automobile penetration. THAT'S IT. i have no idea how anyone could argue against that.


You're not comparing like with like though. Both Stuttgart and Hannover possess incredibly effective Stadtbahn systems with extensive underground portions (thus allowing them to avoid traffic jams). These systems are largely segregated from regular traffic when running at street level too, thus increasing their appeal further! Bremen on the other hand has street running trams on the whole and thus has a lower grade of transportation. Coupled with this are the size differences between the cities. Stuttgart (2.4 million in the VVS catchment) in particular is so much more massive than Bremen and Hannover. Of course I'd expect far greater penetration of PT use in Hannover and Stuttgart, but that is the point I'm making entirely! Cologne possess an extensive and effective Stadtbahn network which is well utilised on the whole.

By the way, I've never attacked Leo's ethnicity at all. The only time I even mentioned China was with regards to his statements about PT penetration and provision in larger cities relative to smaller cities and the quality and provision of that service!


----------



## particlez (May 5, 2008)

^dude, i was comparing hannover and stuttgart, with bremen, whose PT is lacking and has higher car ownership rates. worse yet, the suburban areas for all of these cities have higher car ownership rates than their respective cores. in fact, the increase in car ownership rates is a pressing concern for all urban planners. do i need to provide footnotes?

automobile ownership rates impact PT negatively. i'm assuming you've studied urban planning at some level. it's hard to see how you can continually ignore this very important point. 

let's introduce yet another city to this circuitous argument. singapore possesses a very comprehensive PT system, and has very high incomes. yet car ownership in singapore is limited. its citizens can easily afford the expenses of the car, yet the government strictly limits car ownership. one of the reasons for this policy is to prevent a modal shift towards private transport.


----------



## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

particlez said:


> ^dude, i was comparing hannover and stuttgart, with bremen, whose PT is lacking and has higher car ownership rates. worse yet, the suburban areas for all of these cities have higher car ownership rates than their respective cores. in fact, the increase in car ownership rates is a pressing concern for all urban planners. do i need to provide footnotes?
> 
> automobile ownership rates impact PT negatively. i'm assuming you've studied urban planning at some level. it's hard to see how you can continually ignore this very important point.
> 
> let's introduce yet another city to this circuitous argument. singapore possesses a very comprehensive PT system, and has very high incomes. yet car ownership in singapore is limited. its citizens can easily afford the expenses of the car, yet the government strictly limits car ownership. one of the reasons for this policy is to prevent a modal shift towards private transport.


I've never studied urban planning at all, I'm a cancer biologist who just happens to have an interest in planning and transport in particular. 

I would begin by questioning your premise. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Is high automobile ownership due to the LACK of PT rather than high automobile ownership preventing the investment in PT? It's a difficult one and one that people always seem to be divided on. The very fact that once you provide high quality, frequent PT to an area you see people utilise the service shows that the argument might be weighted more in favour of the automobile ownership only being high due to the lack of high quality PT to the area - and in western nations this is the case due to the difficulty in securing funding for vast infrastructure projects of any kind be it road, rail or even power supply as can be seen at the moment in Germany!

I know you were comparing Stuttgart with Bremen, however, read what I said. Stuttgart has 2.4 million people living within the PT umbrella relative to Bremen's much smaller population. If we analyse the relative number of people of each city taking PT we can see that numbers are actually quite similar between the two PT organisations (133.33 per head of population in Stuttgart compared to 113.57 in Bremen if we are to disregard all mitigating factors in these statistics of which there are many). This is why it is difficult to compare the two as Stuttgart's PT organisation covers a load of small villages around Stuttgart and the city is very fragmented across a valley rather than being confined to just the city itself. 

I agree that Singapore in many ways provides a model of good urban planning and infrastructure provision, however, it also restricts personal liberty due to punitive laws. I for one would not want to live in an environment where choice is diminished.

Of course I'm willing to acknowledge that the whole of the western world (and even Japan) have problems with automobile dependence at some level or another and I have done so in my posts as that is not what I'm arguing about. I've never said in any of my posts that the automobile doesn't impact negatively on PT use, more that it's the number of vehicle km accrued by each individual person that counts more. I cited the example of the UK which has a much lower car ownership rate than Germany, yet a higher number of vehicle km per head of population hinting that people must use their cars more often in the UK despite owning less!

I still stand by what I say about the Cologne system, since this is what this topic is actually about if you read the title; that it is comprehensive, frequent and of a high standard for the population of the city it serves. Intercity travel is also comprehensive and frequent. If anyone can show me other examples of cities (beyond one single city state IE Singapore) where transit is better organised, better provisioned and of a higher quality in a wealthy country in a similar sized city I would like to see it.


----------



## particlez (May 5, 2008)

your ignorance of urban planning theory shows. it's not intended to be mean-spirited. but you need to have a clearer grasp of the subject before you make these assertions.

it's NOT a chicken or egg thing. cities evolve, populations and settlement patterns change, and the transportation system is never set in stone. right now, throughout most (but not all) of the middle-income and above regions (the areas with auto penetration), rates of auto use are rising. cologne is not an exception. it's not to demean cologne, which admirably does possess a comprehensive PT system. but a disproportionate amount of newer construction is more suited to car-based transport. thus, you see rising rates of auto usage. THAT'S IT!!!!

yeah, i mentioned singapore's limits on automobile ownership, and you immediately respond with a red herring about some other aspect of its supposed freedom or lack thereof. are you going to play the libertarian hand and cite car ownership as a hallmark of modern society?


----------



## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

particlez said:


> your ignorance of urban planning theory shows. it's not intended to be mean-spirited. but you need to have a clearer grasp of the subject before you make these assertions.
> 
> it's NOT a chicken or egg thing. cities evolve, populations and settlement patterns change, and the transportation system is never set in stone. right now, throughout most (but not all) of the middle-income and above regions (the areas with auto penetration), rates of auto use are rising. cologne is not an exception. it's not to demean cologne, which admirably does possess a comprehensive PT system. but a disproportionate amount of newer construction is more suited to car-based transport. thus, you see rising rates of auto usage. THAT'S IT!!!!
> 
> yeah, i mentioned singapore's limits on automobile ownership, and you immediately respond with a red herring about some other aspect of its supposed freedom or lack thereof. are you going to play the libertarian hand and cite car ownership as a hallmark of modern society?


Okay, so you're now resorting to ad hominem attacks to justify your viewpoints and claiming "inside knowledge" due to you having studied urban planning. This is one of the last refuges of someone in an argument as I have not seen any clear facts or proper theories to convince me that you are privy to a greater degree of knowledge than myself in my "amateur" reading on the subject.

Firstly, I would direct you to this review article by Morris which states that car-free development in many cities in Europe is on the increase and the popularity of such developments is high, thus refuting your claims that car-centric development is becoming more popular in Europe.



Morris (2005) said:


> This is supported by marketing at the recently approved site at Nippes, Cologne. which has a waiting list of 2,000 applicants. Of the initial 5,000 respondents, 50% were car-owners who stated they would comply with the legal requirement not to own a car
> (Herbertz, 2004).
> 
> Germany currently has ten purpose-built car-free residential areas, with another nine approved (Nobis, 2004).


Thus you see, there is now a greater drive (pardon the pun) towards less car-centric development and people are embracing the concept! Now with this I'm not saying that car-centric developments aren't occurring, of course not, however, I am saying that perhaps your assertions are wrong regarding the new development of European cities since there is now a growing awareness that car-centric developments are detrimental to the quality of life in a city.

Secondly, you claim that it isn't a chicken and egg situation, yet you provide no evidence to the contrary (other than boldly claiming that it isn't). If we are to take a case study from Hong Kong by Cullinane (2002) it shows that adequate public transport provision can deter the purchase and operation of a car in 65% of all respondents, ergo it shows that if PT is provided, people will use it. This doesn't quite add up with your statement of:



particlez said:


> automobile ownership rates impact PT negatively.


What I meant by my statement about the chicken and egg is that high automobile use results from a lack of PT alternatives rather than preventing money being channelled into PT initiatives which is what your statement hints at. Again though, you'll find articles out there which do claim that in areas of high automobile use the investment in PT is unattractive which is why I said opinion is divided on the subject. You also refused to refute my information regarding the UK and car use relative to Germany despite having a lower car ownership rate. If you cannot do this, how can you call me the ignorant one when I have provided a case study to the contrary of your statement? This can be seen in the UK Commission for Integrated Transport which states that car ownership in Germany is 504 per 1000 compared with 399 in the UK, yet average vehicle km in the UK is 10,738 pkm/year compared with 9,025 pkm/year showing that Germans use their cars less despite owning more (information correct at the time of the study).

If you read articles by Peter Newman, the man who coined the expression car dependence, you can see that he has argued quite successfully for many years that car dependence is only a byproduct of inefficient and insufficient alternatives. Following his extensive lobbying in Perth, Australia a very car dependent city, public transport patronage has risen hugely from the construction of a high quality electrified rail network where there was previously an old diesel network. It reinforces the view of "build and they shalt come" which is taken by a number of academics and even urban planners in more progressive cities.

Also, don't assume that having studied something in University that people are unable to grasp what is quite a simple concept. If you wish to challenge any of my assertions, back up your statements with evidence, statistics from public transport bodies and peer reviewed articles on urban planning like I have resorted to doing. It makes for a more interesting debate than ad hominem comments about my supposed "ignorance" on the subject.


----------



## particlez (May 5, 2008)

^oh lord. i said your arguments betrayed an ignorance towards urban planning. no offense was intended, but obviously you've become fired up. 

you're bolstering your arguments by dredging up reports about britain? you might as well bring up examples from the american sunbelt. yeah, cologne is miles ahead of anything similar in britain, or australia or any of the WASP nations. blame it on bad planning, or neoliberal capitalist cost-cutting, etc. but at any rate, britain doesn't set a very high bar.

it's getting late, and i have to get to work tomorrow. i'll add more if i have the time later on.

i'll keep it short, by summarizing my key point throughout this whole tawdry mess of hackneyed debates. when i said that automobile ownership impacts PT in a negative way, i simply stated an aphorism. and yes, the fact you still do not understand this aphorism is both amusing and annoying. automobiles aren't cheap. their upkeep isn't cheap. their fueling and maintenance isn't cheap. the costs of the supporting infrastructure are hugely expensive. thus you can see why an embrace of the car would necessitate a diversion of funds which would otherwise have gone into PT. 

contrary to what you've stated, european PT networks have become less effective in the past generation (note statistics on mileage/person). the PT systems haven't been dismantled. instead, the percentage of car dependent development has risen. while median real income growth in industrialized nations have been slow, the rates of car ownership (and mileage) have been climbing. there are several reasons for this occurrence. first, while governments have generally been starved of taxation inflows, individuals have been (in many cases becoming indebted) purchasing new cars. second, developers have been exploiting the fatter profit margins of lower density greenfield developments, whether they're office parks, malls, or lower density housing built further out. places like cologne DO POSSESS PT networks which reach further out. but the lower densities, along with the increased car usage, render the PT system to be less effective than it was previously.


----------



## jarbury (Aug 20, 2007)

I *AM* an urban planner, and I actually think that svartmetall knows what he's talking about to a fairly significant extent.

As I've said in other threads the best way to measure auto-dependency is kms travelled per year per person versus public transport trips per year per person.... or something along those lines.

I think Japan is a good case showing that high car-owernship does not necessarily mean a high use of cars - especially in large cities such as Tokyo. I bought a 1995 Mitsubishi Lancer back in 2006 that had just been imported from Japan. It had a completely legitimate 17,000 km on its odometre! Furthermore, Auckland (where I live) does not have a significantly higher level of car ownership than cities like Toronto, Vancouver, Perth, Brisbane or Melbourne, yet has vastly fewer public transport trips per person per year (largely because it's a bollocks system that's been ignored for years). 

Coming back to comparing China with Germany, or whatever got the debate started, clearly a country with a higher level of car ownership is likely to end up with a higher level of car usage... give or take a bit. In a place like China whilst you do have a few hundred million people who are fairly well off, there are still hundreds of millions more who aren't even close enough to being rich enough to own a car, so of course that would bring the averages down. My worry with China is that they'll model themselves too much on the USA and "invest" zillions in freeways and so forth, when it would obviously be smarter to build metros and high-speed rail lines. I know that China is doing both, but I have heard that road investment outweighs rail investment by a lot.

I disagree that auto-use is on the rise. In the USA 2008 mileage is WELL below 2007 levels. Even with significantly lower petrol prices it hasn't really bounced back. Furthermore, in a lot of North American cities and also in Europe throughout the past 10 years there has been a big shift towards concepts of "New Urbanism", "urban intensification" and "transit-oriented developments". All of these have contributed towards a rennaisance in 'inner-urban living' - and subsequently public transport use has generally trended upwards (particularly in the last year or two).

If all you're saying, particlez, is that as auto-ownership levels have risen in the past 20-30 years (which has happened pretty much everywhere) public transport has found it harder to find adequate funding, then I don't think that can really be argued with and it is a valid point. However, as I am sure you would know as someone who has studied planning, there are a huge number of issues that have sided against public transport over that time too - like sprawled single-use developments, masses of free parking that the city subsidises everywhere, hugely imbalanced investment in private transport over public transport and so forth. 

Thankfully peak oil, when it does eventually get here, will fix everything.


----------



## particlez (May 5, 2008)

^you MUST be kidding about auto use declining because of new urbanism? andres duany waxes poetic about NU's revolutionary impact. most everyone i work with points out the large numbers of watered down, greenfield NU developments and its marketing appeal.

auto use is declining because the artificially bolstered economic good times have come to an abrupt end, people have run out of money for many expenses. you could counter by pointing out examples of PT development, but how do they compare with the lower density auto-dependent development? 

please tell me, which metropolitan areas in north america or europe or most anywhere else have seen decreases in per capita automobile mileage over the past 10 or 20 years? 

i cringe whenever developing nations are brought up on these forums. it doesn't matter if it's china or brazil, or my favorite mexico (which is unfairly castigated as atavistic by my fellow 'mericans). roads serve a purpose when they're being built through rural areas and enabling the flow of goods. and anyway, this topic is beyond the scope of this thread.


----------



## particlez (May 5, 2008)

> there are a huge number of issues that have sided against public transport over that time too - like sprawled single-use developments, masses of free parking that the city subsidises everywhere, hugely imbalanced investment in private transport over public transport and so forth.


i've basically been alluding to these points in my arguments all along. because society has been going towards a more auto-oriented built form, and because cars have become more ubiquitous, cologne, (and fill in the blank city) has become more compromised.


----------



## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

particlez said:


> ^oh lord. i said your arguments betrayed an ignorance towards urban planning. no offense was intended, but obviously you've become fired up.
> 
> you're bolstering your arguments by dredging up reports about britain? you might as well bring up examples from the american sunbelt. yeah, cologne is miles ahead of anything similar in britain, or australia or any of the WASP nations. blame it on bad planning, or neoliberal capitalist cost-cutting, etc. but at any rate, britain doesn't set a very high bar.
> 
> ...


Right, you make a lot of assertions in this diatribe yet fail to back any of them up with relevant facts. You moan at me for "dredging up" a report regarding a western nation (Britain) yet you fail to provide any evidence to substantiate your viewpoints at all. You refuse to acknowledge actual analysis conducted of built form in Euro cities and trends in development done by an academic. You refuse to acknowledge the study conducted in Hong Kong about the driving principle behind the success or failure of PT which I cited.

It isn't that I don't understand your point about car ownership impacting upon PT, it's that I don't understand how you can say that it automatically impacts upon PT *patronage* given that patronage in European cities across the board is higher than it is in Britain despite lower car ownership in Britain! Ergo, despite your claims about the costs associated with car ownership it appears that the statistics associated with the relevant networks fly in the face of that. Funding for PT is still very high in most European cities and I suggest you take a look at the budgets for the relevant transport organisations in Germany (since we're talking about a German city). As I also said earlier, funding for any infrastructure works at all is difficult to secure no matter where it is required. Currently, Germany is struggling with a prospective energy shortfall once nuclear plants are decommissioned yet funding for alternatives isn't forthcoming. The road lobby too isn't getting the investment it says it sorely requires. It isn't a specific problem with PT per se, more with infrastructure provision in general.

The reason I use Britain as an example (despite being a bad one in your book) is that it is geographically close, the GDP per capita is similar and it is of a similar origin to many European cities. Whilst the societal and political differences are exaggerated now, there is greater similarity between these societies than between Germany and an Asian country for example. 

Anyway, this discussion is getting rather tiresome as it's obvious that you think I'm not worth debating with, which is a bit of a shame. Since you claim to know so much more than me, teaching through demonstration of proof of principle to back up your statements would be far more beneficial than simply sitting there and throwing out arrogant statements without any evidence or proof behind them. Since we were making comment ad hominem, it's my chance to say that if you were a scientist I'd be laughing at you right about now as no scientist would ever make such claims without actually showing where the evidence is sourced from, I'm very much hoping you're not an academic merely someone with a planning degree. I also find it quite galling that an American can sit there and lecture the world on what they consider to be bad or good planning.


----------



## leo_sh (Oct 23, 2006)

Svartmetall said:


> During the week the Stadtbahn runs at 10 minute frequencies off-peak and many routes are bundled. The S-bahn runs at 20 minute peak frequency and 20/30 minute off-peak frequency (but then it's a commuter rail system, what do you expect)? Many of these lines are also backed up by RB/RE/IC/ICE services with stops at key stations as the S-bahn system in Köln is a small part of the S-bahn Rhein-Ruhr.
> 
> If you were using the PT network, why not buy a day pass or week pass and save yourself the trouble of being caught out by a fare system? I personally think that the German fare systems due to completely integrated transit are some of the most simple out there. In Auckland I have to own 4 different passes for each bus operator and still pay separately for the trains. All of the trains and buses run their own zoning system for fares. Confused yet? Also, of course conductors will be rude to people who don't have tickets! They will simply think that you're trying to fare dodge and that is very much frowned upon. If you had stolen something from a shop, would you expect a good response from a shop keeper if you were caught?
> 
> Is there a particular reason you're trolling this thread (as you're not doing it for any other city) because it appears that you have a grudge against Cologne and its public transit? Despite what you claim about PT patronage, 252.1 million people use systems from the KVB every year giving an average ridership of 253.27 per head of population per year. This *excludes* the ridership on the S-bahn.


Why I keep "trolling" this thread?! Because I'm still a F***ING RESIDENT of Köln-Bonn region!!!! I still spend more than 6 months every year living here. I think I'm legimately entitled to fuss about my local public service that failed me!


----------



## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

leo_sh said:


> I don't want do a "vs" thing here, especially between Germany and China. But somehow I still don't feel very good when some Americans say look, they are doing better than us, while pointing at Germans, Swedes, etc.. I just want to point out, whatever their rhetorics are, most Northern Europeans (in this case including Germans, Dutch) *are as heavily reliant on private transport as North Americans. *


Negative. Private transport use in Germany maybe very high, but it has less to do with reliance than choice. People can use public transport because the options are certainly there. Unlike some other places for instance in the U.S. where there isn't a public transport option so they really are _reliant_ on their cars. People do chose cars because in most cases they are still faster than public transport and a great deal of people commute from the core cities metropolitan area, not just from the city proper itself.



leo_sh said:


> If you want to find more efficient PT systems, you can go to Southern Europe, such as Rome, Madrid, Athens. It is not because they have better planning or higher consciousness. I*t is just because they are less developed and they cannot afford two cars per family, not even one*. Rome has only two metro lines and a very chaotic bus network, but it looks like a much more lively and useful system.


Again, Negative.
Italy, the country you just wrote is less developed and cannot afford two cards has in fact the most amount of cars in the world per capita.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/tra_car-transportation-cars


----------



## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

particlez said:


> automobile ownership rates impact PT negatively. i'm assuming you've studied urban planning at some level. it's hard to see how you can continually ignore this very important point.


I personally can't agree with this statement. If this was the case, then the PT options on this list below, would be in reverse of the car ownership per head of population. But it's absolutely not:

#1 Italy: 539 per 1,000 people 
#2 Germany: 508 per 1,000 people 
#3 Austria: 495 per 1,000 people 
#4 Switzerland 486 per 1,000 people 
#5 Australia: 485 per 1,000 people 
#6 New Zealand: 481 per 1,000 people 
#7 United States: 478 per 1,000 people 
#8 France: 469 per 1,000 people 
#9 Canada: 459 per 1,000 people 
#10 Belgium: 448 per 1,000 people 
#11 Sweden: 437 per 1,000 people 
#12 Norway: 407 per 1,000 people 
#13 Finland: 403 per 1,000 people 
#14 Japan: 395 per 1,000 people 
#15 Netherlands: 383 per 1,000 people 
#16 United Kingdom:373 per 1,000 people 
#17 Denmark: 353 per 1,000 people 
#18 Ireland: 272 per 1,000 people

Having a look at that list above, we can see that Germany, which has excellent public transport options also has some of the highest car ownership rates in the world. And Ireland which has a much lower car ownership rate does not in fact have any notable public transport networks.

New Zealand and Switzerland have almost the same car ownership rates (Switzerland slightly more) yet Switzerland is globally famous for it's trains and public transport working efficiently and NZ has possibly the worse public transport in the developed world.


----------



## jarbury (Aug 20, 2007)

Thank you for that data Justme. I certainly think that if you plotted that information against "public transport trips per person per year" I don't think there'd be an obvious alignment at all.

There is a MUCH MUCH greater alignment of public transport usage with other factors such as urban density, lack of public transport options and so forth.

I think this does come back to a chicken-and-egg argument. Does high auto-ownership lead to poor public transportl; or does poor public transport lead to high auto-ownership? I think the above data would probably indicate (especially if we had PT usage data to compare it to) there's no clear answer..... perhaps the answer is neither, perhaps it is both, perhaps it is one slightly more than the other, who knows?

Regarding the impact of New Urbanism and urban intensification on car usage, it's probably too early to say for sure. However I know that it is given as one of the reasons why car usage in the US has slowed in the last year or two (obviously along with bigger issues such as high oil prices and their recession.)


----------



## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

leo_sh said:


> Why I keep "trolling" this thread?! Because I'm still a F***ING RESIDENT of Köln-Bonn region!!!! I still spend more than 6 months every year living here. I think I'm legimately entitled to fuss about my local public service that failed me!


Fair enough, but I honestly don't know what more you want from a transport network _in a city of Cologne's size_. If I had a network like that in my city I'd certainly not be complaining!


----------



## jarbury (Aug 20, 2007)

People complain about public transport everywhere svarty. They should come live in Auckland for a while....


----------



## particlez (May 5, 2008)

it's the end of the day, and now it's my turn to speak my two cents. 

when i stated that there was a negative correlation between automobile ownership and PT effectiveness; a comparison was made between the lower automobile ownership rates of great britain vis-a-vis germany, and britain's higher per capita mileages. i'll defend my premise in the next few paragraphs.

now, there are several other contributing factors. britain has made car ownership more onerous (e.g. higher automobile prices) while simultaneously neglecting its PT system. we can blame it on neoliberal economic policies, an earlier hollowing out of the industrial tax base, less emphasis on social democracy, etc. and/or we can cite inefficiencies in britain's PT investment. as a result, britons do not enjoy the public transportation advantages of germans. they are left with fewer options aside from the car. 

however, given the SAME amount of money available for transit (as opposed to comparing comprehensive german investment to the relatively neglected british counterpart), money spent for the car and its accompanying infrastructure necessitates a very similar amount deducted from the PT system. some conservative economists may cite the multiplier effect from the car, but these arguments have been countered by citing the many nefarious, externalized costs of the car. the costs of transit add up, even for wealthy places. given a set amount of money available, *the car and its infrastructure means building less for PT.* 

furthermore, as car ownership increases, people will inevitably begin to choose the car for its convenience, despite the existence of comprehensive PT. as i stated earlier, wealthy singapore chooses to limit car ownership because it does not want a weakening of PT's modal share. you could argue against singapore's politics, or argue that it can only occur in a city-state. but the point stands, car ownership will inevitably result in some erosion of PT effectiveness.

i've tried my hardest not to impugn cologne, as it's an example of a well-functioning city. but i find it strange how people can defend the car. it may be a symbol of wealth, but its effects on finances, the built urban form, etc. are roundly accepted as negative.

a discussion of NU could also be in order. it's an interesting concept, but its implementation has been mostly disappointing.


----------



## jarbury (Aug 20, 2007)

I don't think svartmetall or myself could be considered as "defending the car". We're probably Auckland's two biggest public transport advocates.


----------



## particlez (May 5, 2008)

cologne has obvious advantages over auckland, or even most british cities. what i have been arguing all along is; cologne's PT system would be even more efficient if its residents did not embrace the car.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Now specialists from Japan and the USA are in Cologne, they use robots for searching.


----------



## sarbaze tabarestan (Aug 14, 2008)

they just said in cologne local tv that they are send home cause they could do nothing!
nobody wanted this fucking subway!we didnt vote for it!they told us it would cost 300 million euros_now we are at 1 billion euros!
all the way they are building many buildings have been damged now this shit has happened!
and only for 4 kilometers of subway!:bash:

i bet they will go on as usual and many other buildings will collapse!
imagine if this building did collapse 30 minutes later!!!all the children who go home from a nearby school would be buried alive!or imagine it 1 weeks before when colognes main street festival "karneval"was taking place!and this region of cologne where the inccident happend is a hotspot!


it a shame...


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

sarbaze tabarestan said:


> […]
> nobody wanted this fucking subway!
> […]


That's not right, I know many people who want this subway.


----------



## sarbaze tabarestan (Aug 14, 2008)

dude!i live in that area!dont argue with me :bash:i know all the people who are living inthe streets!all the people who have shops and appartments there!

the only one who wanted this was the Kölner Verbrecher BANDE

4km=1billion euros

these are gangsters stealing our money!


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

sarbaze tabarestan said:


> dude!i live in that area!dont argue with me :bash:i know all the people who are living inthe streets!all the people who have shops and appartments there!
> 
> the only one who wanted this was the Kölner Verbrecher BANDE
> 
> ...


I know people who live in the south of Cologne: Bayenthal, Rodenkirchen etc.
They like the idea to be faster in the centre in a few years.
The subway is not only for you, it's for people of the southern districts and suburbs too.


----------



## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

sarbaze tabarestan said:


> 4km=1billion euros
> 
> these are gangsters stealing our money!


I can totally understand you! it was the same in Vienna with the U2 extension, 1 billion for a pointless extension that ruined an important tramway and made everything worse for the people in the area, just so some politician can pose with a new subway station for a photo.


----------



## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

sarbaze tabarestan said:


> they just said in cologne local tv that they are send home cause they could do nothing!
> nobody wanted this fucking subway!we didnt vote for it!they told us it would cost 300 million euros_now we are at 1 billion euros!
> all the way they are building many buildings have been damged now this shit has happened!
> and only for 4 kilometers of subway!:bash:


That cost over run aside, why wouldn't anyone want a subway system? It boggles the mind that some people could be so narrow minded that an improvement in transport is seen in a negative light in their minds. I guess they must be car users and would prefer underground free car parking spaces. What other reason could it be? Imagine if this was the thinking of all people in Cologne for all time, there would be no rail transport at all.

Building subways does not damage buildings, not if done correctly. There have been enormous subway construction throughout historical parts of the world for over 150years and something like this is a very rare occurance. The problem is not subway building itself but poor engineering by the firm responsible (if it is proven to be there fault)



sarbaze tabarestan said:


> i bet they will go on as usual and many other buildings will collapse!
> imagine if this building did collapse 30 minutes later!!!all the children who go home from a nearby school would be buried alive!or imagine it 1 weeks before when colognes main street festival "karneval"was taking place!and this region of cologne where the inccident happend is a hotspot!


So, what do suggest? All construction of all kinds must be stopped immediately to protect children? Buildings have collapsed whilst under construction, so should no buildings ever be built again? I fail to see your logic.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

> Architecture | 08.03.2009
> 
> *First Body Recovered in Rubble of Collapsed Cologne Archive*
> 
> ...


More: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,4081549,00.html


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

*Photo Gallery: Cologne Tries to Save its Past*

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-40338.html


----------



## davsot (Dec 27, 2008)

very tragic. It's too bad so many people are opposed to it. Maybe they can talk to the community before moving on with such a large project?

I think all historic documents should be put on the web to avoid these kinds of losses. and of course maybe taking better precautions when constructing a subways system near a very historic building. Technically much of Cologne is historic.


----------



## micro (Mar 13, 2005)

Spiegel Online: "The Cologne archive was ... one of the most important municipal archives in Europe. ... Cracks had ... been discovered in the archive recently, but had been discounted."

==> It seems like a case of extreme carelessness. Cracks in a building have to be taken seriously during construction works, even more so if it is an important building. hno:


----------



## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

I have seen a report that several buildings along the subway route have serious cracks. The inhabitants blame the subway construction for it.


----------



## flierfy (Mar 4, 2008)

davsot said:


> very tragic. It's too bad so many people are opposed to it. Maybe they can talk to the community before moving on with such a large project?


People directly affected will always be opposed to project like this. If you let such NIMBYism rule you never get anything built again. No power plant, no sewage works, no road and no rail line of any kind. That is certainly no feasible way for a city.


----------



## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

JoKo65 said:


> As far as I know such things happened in Athens, Barcelona and Huangzhou too. In Munich 1994 a whole Bus vanished in the ground, three died.


In Singapore too.


----------



## dösanhoro (Jun 24, 2006)

Cracks appearing in structures is not a good sign. Engineers ignored or misjudged the problems. Is there going be a prosecution against them? I know accidents happen but It would be interesting to see if anyone did anything wrong on purpose here.


----------



## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

^^ Come on, what doing things in purpose ... they were just dumb enough to miscalculate.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

At the moment none knows, what exactly happened.


----------



## Martuh (Nov 12, 2005)

The works on the Cologne subway is pretty much the same as it is in Amsterdam. Over here, a North-South line is being built as well. During the construction, several buildings didn't collapse but only subsided. Lots of people want to stop the construction nowadays to protect the very old inner city, because the cost overrun is also pretty much the same. Dutch TV-companies are still very interested in the Cologne accident and mainly ask the question: Can it happen over here as well? A crew of the Amsterdam municipality even travelled to Cologne this week.










At the Vijzelgracht station, four old houses subsided in the fall of 2008. The municipality want to connect the poorly-connected Amsterdam-North (north of the IJ waters) to the city center, and connect Amsterdam-South (Zuid/WTC area) to the center, because over there a massive financial district is being built.

But still, comparing both cases, I think both cities should continue building the lines. It is important to keep city centres well connected to other parts of town. History proves that subways are a very reliable way of transportation.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

> *Were Subway Builders Cautious Enough?*
> 
> By SPIEGEL Staff
> 
> ...


http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,612129,00.html


----------



## staff (Oct 23, 2004)

This incident in Köln has now put the Cityring expansion of the Copenhagen Metro on hold until further examinations have been made.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

They found a second victim today.


----------



## sarbaze tabarestan (Aug 14, 2008)

R.I.P


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Cologne is the fourth biggest city of Germany if inhabitants are counted and the third biggest in square kilometers.
Cologne public transport consists of Bus, Stadtbahn, S-Bahn and regional trains.
I will start with Stadtbahn. The Stadtbahn network has a high floor and a low floor part.

Network (192,2 km):










Low floor part:


















High floor part:









Schemes: wiki

If we don't count Regio-Stadtbahns like Karlsruhe, the Cologne Stadtbahn is the biggest in Germany.
On both parts of the network are different cars in service.

These ones are the K5000 cars, the newest high floor trains:

































































Photos: railfaneurope.net

Some photos of the high floor network:

















































Photos: wiki

To be continued.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Some photos of K4500 – the newest low floor Stadtbahn trains:

















_wiki_

Near Heumarkt:










Sülz, Hermeskeiler Platz:










Weiden-West, view from S-Bahn station down to Stadtbahn station:









_railfaneurope.net_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Some photos of the of the older K4000 cars. The cars were built in the 90ies and are "brothers" of Vienna's T1 cars for the U6 and are "fathers" of Frankfurt's U5 cars.

Leaving Heumarkt on the way to cross the river Rhine:










At Merkenich:


















Deutzer Freiheit station 2:










Neumarkt at night:









_railfaneurope.net_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

More photos of K4000.

Haus Vorst:










Melaten:










Weiden-West:










Maarweg:


















Steinweg:










Westhoven, Berliner Straße:










Ebertplatz:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

Nice collection of pictures - thank you! I always find the Stadtbahn networks of Europe particularly interesting and Cologne has a very extensive one indeed.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

More K4000:


























K4000 in the foreground, K4500 in the background:









_trampicturebook.de_


----------



## cristof (Feb 8, 2006)

so there isnt a real subway system in Koln? i remember my only trip to this city... there were entrances for subway station... i thought it was for a "real" metro... from what i've seen on this forum i guess it's like a premetro as we name that system in Belgium? strange for a city of that size ... close to one million maybe more now...


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

cristof said:


> so there isnt a real subway system in Koln? i remember my only trip to this city... there are entrances for subway station... i thought it was for a "real" metro... from what i've seen on this forum i guess it's like a premetro as we name that system in Belgium? strange for a city of that size ... close to one million maybe more now...


It's a Stadtbahn system which consists of:

1) Real Stadtbahn sections*
2) Stadtbahnvorlauf sections (with crossings – but should be converted to real Stadtbahn sections in the future)
3) Stadtbahnzulauf sections (sections which won't be changed in the near future)

* According to North Rhine-Westphalian standards (Cologne is located in North Rhine-Westphalia), real Stadtbahn is an independent rail system without crossings. On the way to reach this target a mixture of 1)/2)/3) is allowed.

So the target for the far future will be a complete real Stadtbahn system, which will be the same like a metro.


----------



## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

cristof said:


> strange for a city of that size ... close to one million maybe more now...


Well, i guess that the cities of Cologne and Frankfurt would love to operate a full heavy rail metro. Both cities would generate traffic by far having aggolmerations of 2-3 million people.


----------



## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

It's completely wrong to assume that a so called "full metro" are superior to a Stadtbahnsystem.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Isek said:


> Well, i guess that the cities of Cologne and Frankfurt would love to operate a full heavy rail metro. Both cities would generate traffic by far having aggolmerations of 2-3 million people.


Cologne had the choice between a metro like Munich, an Alweg monorail and the today's system. They discussed advantages and disadvantages and chose today's system.


----------



## cristof (Feb 8, 2006)

well i think a heavy system will more fit to cities such Koln and Frankfurt...


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

cristof said:


> well i think a heavy system will more fit to cities such Koln and Frankfurt...


I cannot tell you much about Frankfurt/Main's Stadtbahn standards, because it is not located in North Rhine-Westphalia (NRW), but in NRW the Stadtbahn parameters of real Stadtbahn sections don't differ much from underground transit parameters. The parameters are very similar to the ones of Berlin's U-Bahn. So better forget about the difference between "heavy" and "light" rail, it doesn't fit the situation in NRW! 
The difference is only the kind of development of the system. When the whole system will be completed – a real or full Stadtbahn – it will not differ much from underground transit systems.
That's the reason, why the biggest agglomeration of Germany, the Rhine-Ruhr area, uses such a system too.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Now some photos of older high floor cars.

The Stadtbahn car "Class Cologne" or Type B.

*First generation, B100, built in the 70ies.*

Near Severinsbrücke:










Near Widdig between Cologne and Bonn:










Kölnarena:










Buchheim, Herler Straße:










*Second generation, B100, built in the 80ies.*

Main railway station:










Eifelwall:










Brühl-Badorf:










*Third generation, B80, built in the late 80ies by DUEWAG.*

Wesseling:










Chorweiler – combined S-Bahn/Stadtbahn station, Stadtbahn section of the station:










Rodenkirchen:










*Third generation, B80, built in the 80ies by Waggon-Union.*

Ubierring:










Brühl-Mitte:










*Third generation, B80, built in the 90ies.*

Köln-Mülheim railway station:










Between Roisdorf and Bornheim:










Depot Wesseling, in the foreground B80, in the background K5000:









_railfaneurope.net_


----------



## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

cristof said:


> well i think a heavy system will more fit to cities such Koln and Frankfurt...


Why? What is it about heavy rail that makes it automatically superior to this set up (which by the way is predominantly grade separated)? 

If anything this at least offers a level of flexibility that would otherwise be impossible. Also, for full grade separated heavy rail, one wouldn't see such an extensive system - 191km of track for a heavy rail system for a city just shy of 1 million would be an incredible feat indeed.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Svartmetall said:


> […]
> If anything this at least offers a level of flexibility that would otherwise be impossible.
> […]


That's it. Flexibility is the reason, why they decided against Alweg and against a classic metro system.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Now something about another part of Cologne's rail network, the S-Bahn of Cologne (S-Bahn Köln):










The S-Bahn network of Cologne consists of five lines (one S-Bahnvorlauf), in spite of that fact it is approx. 200 Kilometers long.
There is something special, S-Bahn Köln has a border to another S-Bahnsystem in the north, the S-Bahn Rhein-Ruhr, two lines cross the border to S-Bahn Rhein-Ruhr, so these are only counted till the border.
S-Bahn Köln is part of Deutsche Bahn.

S-Bahn Köln:









_wiki_

Most common trains on the S-Bahn Köln are the Class 423.

Köln Hbf:


















On the "Stammstrecke", the main tracks between Deutz and Hansaring:










Düren:










Chorweiler, combined Stadtbahn/S-Bahn station, S-Bahn part:









_railfaneurope.net_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

S-Bahn at Cologne airport – in the middle are the S-Bahn tracks, right and left are the tracks for ICE and Regionalexpress:










On the left: class 423 – on the right: ICE which uses the S-Bahn tracks:


----------



## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

How frequent is the S-bahn service? Also, the two lines that cross into the Ruhr, are these part of the VRS or the VRR tarif zone (or both)?


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Svartmetall said:


> How frequent is the S-bahn service?


Every 20 minutes.




Svartmetall said:


> Also, the two lines that cross into the Ruhr, are these part of the VRS or the VRR tarif zone (or both)?


VRS till the border, then VRR.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

As I have told above, two lines cross the border to the S-Bahn Rhein-Ruhr. One of these lines is run by S-Bahn Köln with class 423 trains. But the other line is run by S-Bahn Rhein-Ruhr and S-Bahn Rhein-Ruhr uses other trains, than S-Bahn Köln. On this line push-pull trains of S-Bahn Rhein-Ruhr are used. It's the S6 from Essen Hbf. in the Ruhr area, via Düsseldorf Hbf. to Cologne.

Köln Hbf., on the right S-Bahn push-pull train, these trains consist of a loco class 143 and x-wagons.:










Köln Hbf., engine of such a train:









_railfaneurope.net_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Leverkusen:










Köln Hbf. (on the right – behind the ICE – you can see the headquarters of Lufthansa):









_bahnbilder.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

There is another interesting line in S-Bahn Köln's network – RB 25. RB normally stands for "Regionalbahn" (regional train), but RB 25 is no normal regional train but a "S-Bahnvorlauf" line. That means this line will be converted into a real S-Bahn and it fits many S-Bahn standards already today. RB 25 uses not the tracks for normal trains, it uses the S-Bahn tracks and calls the S-Bahn stops: RB 25 is part of the S-Bahn system.

This line uses class 644 trains.

Leaving Hansaring on the "Stammstrecke":










Köln Hbf.:


















Hansaring:









_railfaneurope.net_


----------



## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

Why is a DMU used on this line?


----------



## Northsider (Jan 16, 2006)

Cologne is a cool city...great transportation. Thanks for the photos.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

rheintram said:


> Why is a DMU used on this line?


Because there is no catenary between Marienheide and Köln-Frankfurter Straße and there won't be one in the future, because of a restricted loading gauge on this line.
It's a Diesel-S-Bahn – but the performance of the class 644 diesel-electric trains is good enough for S-Bahn services.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

More photos of S-Bahn Köln.

Class 423 in Herchen (Sieg):


















In Düren:


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Northsider said:


> Cologne is a cool city...great transportation. Thanks for the photos.


No problem. You're welcome.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Another part of Cologne's rail system are the regional trains. There are two sorts of regional trains: express trains and stoptrains. The express trains call only at important stations and their main function is to connect towns and cities with each other. For example: If someone wants to go from Cologne to Düsseldorf, he will take an express train.
There are two providers of regional trains in Cologne: Deutsche Bahn (DB) and Transregio. DB offers stoptrains, product name: Regionalbahn (RB), and express trains, product name: Regionalexpress (RE). Transregio offers only stoptrains, product name: Transregio (TR).

*Some photos of Deutsche Bahn's trains.*

Doubledecker push-pull train as RE approaches Köln Hbf.:










Doubledecker push-pull train as RE approaches Düren near Cologne:










Doubledecker push-pull train as RE passes by S-Bahn station Köln-Weiden West (pushed by a class 146 loco):










Push-pull train ex-Silberling with cab "Karlsruhe" at Köln Hbf.:










Hohenzollern bridge over the Rhine:










DMU class 628 as RB in Köln-Messe/Deutz:










Köln Hbf.:










Köln-Messe/Deutz:









_railfaneurope.net_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Köln Hbf., DMU class 644 in the middle (left TGV, right ICE):










Class 644 leaving Köln Hbf.:










EMU class 425 near Köln Hbf.:










As RB in Köln-West:










As RE in Köln Hbf.:










EMU class 426 on the top of the train, then two class 425 in Hürth-Kalscheuren near Cologne:










*Now Transregio trains.*

Brand new Desiro ML in Köln-West:


























TR from Cologne to Koblenz is passed by an Intercity in Remagen near Bonn:










Destination Cologne, Krefeld Hbf.:









_railfaneurope.net_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Another interesting transport system is Cologne's aerial cableway.

Photos:

























_railfaneurope.net_









_willkommeninkoeln.de_









_flickr.com_









_koeln.de_

























_schael-sick-online.de_









_koeln-nachrichten.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

_wiki_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Another kind of important public transport in Cologne are the ferries.

In the background behind the barge: Ferry for passengers and cars in the north of Cologne:










Same ferry:










Ferry for passengers in the city centre of Cologne:









_wiki_

Ferry for passengers in the south of Cologne:









_3dprojekte.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

*Buses in Cologne and the agglomeration*

There are two sorts of buses, city buses and regional buses, some of the regional ones are express buses. City buses are operated by one operator, regional buses are operated by three big operators and several small ones.

City buses.

Main bus station:










Depot Riehl (KVB):


















































Depot Hürth (Schilling):


















Regional bus.

Bergisch Gladbach/Bensberg:


















On the right: regional bus, centre: city bus, on the left: regional express bus:










Depot Bergisch Gladbach (RVK):


















Depot Leverkusen-Fixheide (KWS):









_Wupper-Sieg-Bus.de_

Depot Troisdorf (RSVG):









_stadtbus2.de_

Sightseeing:









_picasaweb_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

More regional buses.


















































Maxi train:


----------



## nouveau.ukiyo (Sep 20, 2007)

Thanks for the pics. I'm from the US but live in Tokyo now...it's interesting to see how different the trains are everywhere! Any numbers on ridership?


----------



## Urban Legend (Mar 13, 2007)

great public transportation.
how fast can Stadtbahn go?


----------



## Falubaz (Nov 20, 2004)

D'yu have there in Koeln buses with 'Anhänger'?? Cool! just few or it's pretty common?


----------



## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

Urban Legend said:


> great public transportation.
> how fast can Stadtbahn go?


I cannot tell you the exact operational speeds in Cologne, however the v/max of modern Stadtbahnvehicles such as K4000/K5000 in Cologne is 80km/h.

If they operate at grade the speed is usually lower than that, depending on the situation.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Falubaz said:


> D'yu have there in Koeln buses with 'Anhänger'?? Cool! just few or it's pretty common?


Just few regional buses in the agglomeration have trailers. In the city of Cologne itself they can't be seen. There articulated buses are in use.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Urban Legend said:


> great public transportation.
> how fast can Stadtbahn go?


Vmax of Stadtbahn is 80 km/h or 100 km/h, depending on the type of train.

Vmax of S-Bahn is 120 km/h or 140 km/h, depending on the type of train.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

nouveau.ukiyo said:


> Thanks for the pics. I'm from the US but live in Tokyo now...it's interesting to see how different the trains are everywhere! Any numbers on ridership?


Extemporaneous not, but I will search for some numbers.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Some city buses.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Some regional buses.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

*Links.*

Map of rail traffic in Cologne:

http://www.kvb-koeln.de/german/fahrplan/linienplan.html?getDownloadFile=1573

Map of bus traffic in Cologne:

http://www.kvb-koeln.de/german/fahrplan/linienplan.html?getDownloadFile=1805

Map of rail traffic in the whole Köln/Bonn agglomeration:

http://www.kvb-koeln.de/german/fahrplan/linienplan.html?getDownloadFile=1743


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

*Crossing the river Rhine.*

K5000 on Severinsbrücke:










K4000 on Deutzer Brücke:









_railfaneurope.net_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Entrance Stadtbahn station Neumarkt:










Stadtbahn station Benzelrath:










Stadtbahn station Akazienweg:










Stadtbahn station Amsterdamer Str./Gürtel:










Stadtbahn station Appellhofplatz (Zeughaus):










Stadtbahn station Hans-Böckler-Platz/Westbahnhof – mixed high floor/low floor station (low floor part not needed anymore, so I think station will be rebuilded):










Stadtbahn station Poststraße:









_wiki_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Stadtbahn station Neumarkt:









_wiki_

Stadtbahn station Äußere Kanalstraße:









_lichtplan.de_

Stadtbahn station Körnerstraße:









_wolfgangzurborn.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Some S-Bahn pics.

S-Bahn station Köln-Blumenberg:










S-Bahn station Köln-Holweide:










S-Bahn station Köln-Porz/Wahn:










S-Bahn section of Cologne main station:









_bahnbilder.de_

Mixed S-Bahn/Stadtbahn station Köln-Chorweiler, in the foreground two S-Bahn tracks, in the background one Stadtbahn track:









_wiki_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Videos – Stadtbahn:

















Videos – S-Bahn:


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

*Pictures of the station Köln/Bonn-Flughafen (Airport).*

Station for S-Bahn, regional trains and ICE.

ICE to Frankfurt/Main:










ICE to Berlin:










Regionalexpress (RE) to Koblenz:










ICE:










S-Bahn:










ICE on S-Bahn track:










ICE to Berlin on S-Bahn track:










In the centre the S-Bahn tracks, left and right the tracks for other trains:










S13 to Troisdorf:










ICE:










View on the platforms:










Way out to terminal 2:










ICE:






















































_bahnbilder.de_


----------



## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

The airport train station is cool! I love the fact that there appears to be a trend in Germany to put long-distance trains though the airport stations to provide immediate access to long distance locations from the airport. It is something that other countries should definitely consider doing (if they don't already).


----------



## AAPMBerlin (Aug 16, 2008)

JoKo65 said:


> *Pictures of the station Köln/Bonn-Flughafen (Airport).*
> 
> Station for S-Bahn, regional trains and ICE.
> 
> ...


Hey JOKO, you made a mistake:
the tracks in the middle are for the long distance trains, and the left and right tracks for S-Bahn and Regiobahnen .


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Sorry, but that's not true. The tracks in the centre are the S-Bahn tracks because of the height of the platform:

_Um bei unterschiedlichem Wagenmaterial einen niveaugleichen Einstieg zu gewährleisten, beträgt der Höhenunterschied zwischen Schiene und Bahnsteigkante an den äußeren Gleisen 76 cm und an den inneren, etwas tiefer verlegten, 96 cm._

76 cm = normal trains (regional and ICE)

96 cm = S-Bahn.

Source: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahnhof_Köln/Bonn_Flughafen

You can see it on the last photo you quoted, the S-Bahn uses the regio and ICE-track, but the platform is not high enough, so the usage of this platform for the S-Bahn is not optimal.


----------



## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

@ AAPMBerlin: There's no need to quote ten pics (from only two posts above!) for such a simple question! :wall: It makes things just umcomfortable here!

Anyway, Cologne and Frankfurt are the only two airports with an appropriate link to far-distance trains, and they'll remain for the near future. BBI will get one, too. For Munich, maybe in the far far future as things are complicated and the first thing they have to do is create a faster connection to the city.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

thun said:


> […]
> Anyway, Cologne and Frankfurt are the only two airports with an appropriate link to far-distance trains, and they'll remain for the near future. BBI will get one, too. For Munich, maybe in the far far future as things are complicated and the first thing they have to do is create a faster connection to the city.


You forgot Düsseldorf:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Düsseldorf_Airport_station


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

*Köln Hbf.*

Tracks for long distance and regional trains in Cologne main station:










Hohenzollern bridge, on the left two tracks for the S-Bahn:










On the right Regionalexpress (RE1):










RE to Koblenz, on the right – behind the RE – the S-Bahn area of Köln Hbf. can be seen:










Regionalbahn (RB38) to Düsseldorf Hbf. via Grevenbroich:










RB to Koblenz:










RE in Köln Hbf.:










From right to left. RB48 to Wuppertal, ICE2 to Berlin, IC from Luxembourg to Norddeich Mole, RE1 from Aachen to Hamm, ICE3 from Dortmund to Munich:










Transregio (TR) to Koblenz:










RE1 to Aachen:










View from the S-Bahn platform at the Hohenzollernbrücke:









_bahnbilder.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

*More Köln Hbf.*























































In the evening:




































_bahnbilder.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

*Hohenzollernbrücke.*

View from the cathedral at the Hohenzollern bridge:









_bahnbilder.de_




























On the right the lane with two tracks for the S-Bahn. It has been built in the 80ies. Between the war and the 80ies the Hohenzollernbrücke had only four tracks. But before the war it had three lanes like today, but the third one had been on the left side and had been used by the tram and cars. You can see the old tram tracks on the bottom of the photo, pointing to the river:
































































During Deutscher Evangelischer Kirchentag 2007 at night:










Köln Hbf., Kölner Dom, Hohenzollernbrücke:









_wiki_


----------



## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

That bridge (along with the Dom of course) is absolutely one of the icons of Germany let alone Cologne. For me as a fellow European it is almost as recognisable as the Sydney Harbour Bridge, though admittedly those outside of Europe who haven't travelled to Germany probably wouldn't know it. 

Getting a bit picture heavy on this page now.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Something about the service frequencies in Cologne's rail network.

Stadtbahn:

Normally every number runs every ten or every five minutes depending on the number.
Note: There are many sections which are served by more than one number, so the frequency in these sections is better.

S-Bahn:

Every number runs every 20 minutes – exception is "S-Bahnvorlauflinie" RB25: every 30 minutes. Many sections are served by more than one number, there the frequency is better.


Regional trains:

Every 60 minutes per number. The important branches are served by more than one number.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

As I have told before the Cologne Stadtbahn network consists of a low floor and a high floor part. At the beginning all stations of the 60ies, 70ies and some of the 80ies had been low floor stations because many tram cars had been in use. Cologne's network of that time was a mixture of tram and Stadtbahn. Since the end of the 80ies more and more Stadtbahn only stations have been built and therefore more and more high floor stations. At this time low floor Stadtbahn trains did not exist, so it was planned for the future, to rebuild all stations to high floor stations.
Since the middle of the 90ies it changed; low floor trains had been available and Cologne decided not to change the whole network to high floor.
Because of line changes some stations since then have had an interesting history of changing platform height. One of them is Chorweiler, in service since 1973 it had been low floor till 1996, then high floor till 2006 and today it is part of the low floor network.

Today:










Until 2006:










Note: In the front part this station has got two tracks! So yes, it is the same station!


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Other stations like "Hansaring" have a low floor and a high floor part – high floor part today not needed anymore at this station:


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

*Some work vehicles of Cologne's Stadtbahn.*

Battery shunter in Wesseling (depot):










First – rail polishing vehicle, second – electric loco (during a presentation):










Diesel/electric loco and car for bulk (during a presentation):









_railfaneurope.net_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

More:


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

The station "Haus Vorst" in the west of Cologne. It is part of the low floor network of Cologne's Stadtbahn. These tracks are used by freight trains too:










Turning track at this station:











Station Weiden-West, 0 = Stadtbahn, +1 = S-Bahn:










During the works:


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Above I've said, that Cologne's S-Bahn network has a length of approx. 200 km.
Thanks to a german railway forum I have now a more exact value:

226 km.

That means in a comparison of german S-Bahn networks Cologne is in the middle:

Rhein-Ruhr 472 km
München 442 km
Hannover 385 km
Berlin 331 km
Rhein-Main 309 km
Rhein-Neckar 290 km
Köln 226 km
Stuttgart 177 km
Hamburg 144 km
Leipzig/Halle 127 km
Dresden 101 km
Nürnberg 67 km


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

As I mentioned before, some years ago Cologne had also trams. Some of the old trams are now rebuild as work cars for the Stadtbahn.

Repair and assembling shop – technics:










Catenary monitoring:










Rail maintenance and lubrication:


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Students of arts of Cologne's university designed the Darwin train:
































































Inside the train:


















_express.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Cologne's Stadtbahn network gets bigger and bigger, a large project at the moment is the construction of the Nord-Süd-Stadtbahn, which means north-south Stadtbahn. It's a stretch with a length of four kilometers which is build in deep tunnels. At the deepest section it is 30 meters deep. The costs are more than 1 billion (1000 million) €.

Here some photos of the construction of the tunnels.


----------



## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

^^ Looks good! How is the progress on the underground segment following the collapse of those buildings recently?


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Svartmetall said:


> ^^ Looks good!


The pictures are not brand new, at the moment the interior construction is in progress.




Svartmetall said:


> How is the progress on the underground segment following the collapse of those buildings recently?


They are searching for the remnants of the city's record vault.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Besides that they search for a location for a new archive.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Chorweiler is a satellite town of Cologne which has been built at the end of the 60ies.
Here you can see the bus station which is located above the underground Stadtbahn and S-Bahn station. Interesting house in the foreground:









_bahnbilder.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Another interesting station is the Stadtbahn station Äußere Kanalstraße. The tubes at the ceiling are sewers:









_bahnbilder.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Two Stadtbahn stretches in the south of Cologne go to Bonn, in Bonn they are connected to the Stadtbahn Bonn. Stadtbahn Bonn and Stadbahn Cologne together are sometimes called "Stadtbahn Rhein-Sieg", because Rhein-Sieg is another designation for the agglomeration Köln-Bonn.
So we can say that Stadtbahn Bonn is a sister of Stadtbahn Cologne and therefore we now make an excursion to Bonn. 

We begin in Cologne.

Rail crossing at Barbarossaplatz station:










Rail crossing at Ubierring:










Rodenkirchen station:










Godorf station, last station in the city area of Cologne. In the background an old windmill:










Approaching Hersel station:










Near Propsthof Nord station, we are now already in Bonn:









_railfaneurope.net_

To be continued.

Note: The above stations are only a few examples, the amount of stations between Cologne and Bonn is much bigger!


----------



## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

JoKo65 said:


> Another interesting station is the Stadtbahn station Äußere Kanalstraße. The tubes at the ceiling are sewers:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Got to hope that the pipes never leak then!


----------



## mrmoopt (Nov 14, 2004)

Svartmetall said:


> Got to hope that the pipes never leak then!


Those are not pipes, but rather artwork to symbolise the undercarriage of a train. ie. the bogies


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

But the most common version of a fully grade separated section is of course the underground tunnel:









_wiki_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Fully grade separated, Stadtbahn in tunnel, S-Bahn elevated, cars at ground level – station Hansaring:









_wiki_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Other stretch layouts with a high level of independence are the light railway and the heavy railway layouts – in spite of the fact that they are not free of railway crossings.

*Light railway stretches.*

Station Leuchterstraße:










Between Wichheimer Straße and Herler Straße:










Station Vischeringstraße:











*Heavy railway stretches.*

Station Siegstraße:










Between Sürth and Godorf:










Station Roisdorf West:









_bahnbilder.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

*More examples for heavy railway sections of Stadtbahn Cologne.*

Approaching Buschdorf:










Near Uedorf:










Leaving Godorf:










Between Urfeld and Widdig:









_railfaneurope.net_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

*More examples for light railway sections of Stadtbahn Cologne.*

Dellbrück, Hauptstraße:










At Ford works in the north of Cologne:










Near Merkenich terminus:









_railfaneurope.net_

Fordwerke Nord:










At Lustheide:









_bahnbilder.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Another stretch layout is the light rail layout – not to be mixed up with the light railway layout! The light rail layout is not as independent as the fully grade separated Stadtbahn layout, the heavy railway layout or the light railway layout. The trains run on separated tracks with crossings, often in the middle of a street. Normally they have to attend the traffic lights. On the one hand the traffic lights give the trains priority over the cars, on the other hand this is not as efficient as a railway crossing on heavy or light railway stretches.
So we can say: Light rail layout is better than tram layout, but worse than heavy or light railway or fully grade separated Stadtbahn layout.

*Light rail layout.*

Near Zülpicher Platz:










Dürener Str./Gürtel:










Barbarossaplatz:










Ubierring:










On the Gürtel:









_bahnbilder.de_

Rudolfplatz, combined Stadtbahn/bus lane. On the left is the bus stop, on the right the low floor Stadtbahn station. The Stadtbahn platform is higher than the bus platform, if you look carefully you can see the increase:









_railfaneurope.net_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

As I have told you above, there are about 21 km of tram layout stretches left in the network of Stadtbahn Cologne. These stretches will be fewer and fewer because they are a problem for the network since they are dependent on car traffic. In the past many of such stretches have been substituted by underground tunnels and this process will last.

*Here are some examples for tram layout stretches.*

Station Pohligstraße:










Hönninger Weg:



















Station Zollstockgürtel:









_bahnbilder.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

More.

At Gleueler Straße:










Moltkestraße:










Zülpicher Straße:









_bahnbilder.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Now al little résumé: The inhabitants of Cologne have the luck, that there are heavy railway stretches which are owned by Cologne and are now part of the Stadtbahn network, furthermore Cologne had several light railway lines in the past, which has been bought by Cologne and now are part of the Stadtbahn network too. On the other hand Cologne begun in the 60ies with the construction of grade separated Stadtbahn stretches to substitute tram stretches. Because of this mixture, Cologne's Stadtbahn has today the advantage of approx. 135 km of stretches which are metro-like. In comparison to other german networks (Stadtbahn or U-Bahn) this is a quite good position.
Only about 56 km of the network are stretches which are light rail-like or tram-like and I'm sure, that several of this stretches will be substituted by grade separated Stadtbahn stretches in the future.


----------



## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

Thank you for this very comprehensive thread by the way, Joko. The photos and information are great.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Svartmetall said:


> Thank you for this very comprehensive thread by the way, Joko. The photos and information are great.


Thank you for the compliment!


----------



## DCOBRA-K (Jun 2, 2008)

I am impressed that system of transport type lrt the truth is another very different form to see the transport, one becomes very efficient and very aesthetic.

Greetings from Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico


LA GRAN GUADALAJARA​tecnologia, modernidad y sociedad​JUSTICE FOR ALL​


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

After WWII Cologne had to decide between the today's system, a metro and an Alweg train system. They decides to build the today's system.
I will write something about this decision in this thread.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Something about the velocities driven on the different stretch layouts of Cologne's Stadtbahn.

*Fully grade separated stretches* are built for a Vmax of 80–100 km/h. But the Vmax at the moment is 70 km/h on these stretches.

Exception: In the centre of Cologne exist some stretches from the 60ies, these have got some narrow curve radiuses (like Paris' metro in some cases), therefore the Vmax on these stretches is 50 km/h.

The Vmax on *light railway stretches* is 60–70 km/h.

The Vmax on *heavy railway stretches* is 80–100 km/h, but in some sections 120 km/h would be possible.

*Light rail stretches* can be used with a Vmax of 70 km/h.

*Tram-like stretches* have a Vmax of 50 km/h.


----------



## paF4uko (Jul 12, 2008)

JoKo65 said:


> *Fully grade separated stretches* are built for a Vmax of 80–100 km/h. But the Vmax at the moment is 70 km/h on these stretches.


Is this because of the vehicles' Vmax?


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

paF4uko said:


> Is this because of the vehicles' Vmax?


In the past, there have been vehicles with 70 km/h Vmax in service, but today there are only vehicles with 80 km/h or 100 km/h Vmax operational. So I think, they have not modified the software of the train control until today, or something like that.


----------



## kato2k8 (May 4, 2008)

70 km/h is the legal limit for driving without signalling in Germany (except in tunnels, those always require signalling). BoStrab §49 (2). Presumably these stretches do not have the required amount of signal equipment installed.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

kato2k8 said:


> 70 km/h is the legal limit for driving without signalling in Germany (except in tunnels, those always require signalling). BoStrab §49 (2). Presumably these stretches do not have the required amount of signal equipment installed.


They have, because they are Voll-Stadtbahn (real Stadtbahn [fully grade separated]) stretches.They are signalled and besides that, most of them are in tunnels.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Some night shots of Cologne's low floor Stadtbahn.

Ubierring:



















Merkenich:



















Zülpicher Straße/Gürtel:









_bahnbilder.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

And some snow shots.

The different faces of Cologne's Stadtbahn. Tram-like stretch layout, Berliner Straße in Höhenhaus:










Light railway stretch layout, station Wichheimer Straße:










Between Herler Straße and Wichheimer Straße:










Fully grade separated Stadtbahn near station "Im Weidenbruch":









_bahnbilder.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Low floor Stadtbahn at Weiden-West, in the background you can see the S-Bahn on an embankment:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Rebuilding the Stadtbahn station Zoo/Flora:


















_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Cologne's Hohenzollernbrücke (Hohenzollern bridge) in the fog. On the bridge is a S-Bahn train.
In the background the silhouette of the cathedral can be seen:









_bahnbilder.de_


----------



## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

Thanks for sharing! Actually how often a train passes that bridge? I guess there must be every 2 Minutes a train.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Isek said:


> Thanks for sharing! Actually how often a train passes that bridge? I guess there must be every 2 Minutes a train.


They say it's one of the railway bridges with the most traffic worldwide.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

*Part 1:*



JoKo65 said:


> I have posted so many photos about Stadtbahnwagen B till now, so some information about it will follow here.
> 
> To understand the history of Stadtbahwagen B, the working horse of Cologne's Stadtbahn, I have to tell you something about the history of Cologne's Stadtbahn.
> At the beginning of the 60ies the government of Cologne decided to build tunnel stretches, but at this time it hadn't been possible to get subsidies from the country of North Rhine-Westphalia or the German Federation. So the parameters of the tunnels had to be very moneysavingly. That means the curves had to be built with narrow radiuses for example.
> ...




*Part 2:*

The Stadtbahn carriages type B which have been delivered in the 70ies were Stadtbahnwagen B100S. What does that mean?
100 means 100 km/h Vmax and the S means "Schaltwerksteuerung", in English: Switchgear control. This means the velocity and traction of the train are regulated by switching resistors. The driver chooses a traction programme and a servo motor switches the resistors according to that programme.

Later at the beginning of the 80ies two new techniques have been launched. Duisburg bought B80C carriages. B for Stadtbahnwagen B and 80 for 80 km/h Vmax – in the area of Stadtbahn Rhein-Ruhr they realised that the distances between the stations are too short to reach 100 km/h in most cases. The C stands for the mixed English/German word "Chopper-Steuerung" ("Gleichstromstellersteuerung" in German and chopper control in English).
The chopper is an apparatus which chops up the DC. The chopped DC can be modulated so that no resistors are needed. Without switching resistors the process of acceleration is jerkfree and the train can be steered more precise. On the other hand maintenance is much cheaper.

But another technique has been launched at the beginning of the 80ies. Düsseldorf bought B80D trains. What means the D? The D is the abbreviation for the German word "Drehstromantrieb" which means AC three-phase drive.
Because AC isn't constant, the current hasn't to be chopped up. Every AC phase has it's frequency, so the AC can be modulated by a frequency modulator. The AC three-phase drive also doesn't need resistors and therefore works jerkfree and precise too. It has a big advantage: It's maintenance costs are lower than the costs of the chopper control because AC motors are tougher than DC ones.

B80C have been delivered to: Duisburg and Dortmund.
B80D have been delivered to Düsseldorf, Bochum/Gelsenkirchen and Cologne – at the end of the 80ies Cologne began to buy trains with 80 km/h Vmax too because they had enough 100 km/h Vmax trains.

At the beginning of the 90ies Bonn bought B100C carriages. Chopper controlled carriages with 100 km/h Vmax. Some publications call them B100T, T stands for „Thyristorsteuerung“ (thyristor control), a thyristor is a component of a chopper. So B100C and B100T are the same. But the official designation is B100C.

To be continued.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Isek said:


> Thanks for sharing! Actually how often a train passes that bridge? I guess there must be every 2 Minutes a train.


Here is something for you: http://www.stadtpanoramen.de/koeln/koeln_nacht.html


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Interesting photo at Bf. Köln-Mülheim:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Low floor Stadtbahn, Bf. Deutz/Messe, in the middle – turning tracks:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Lohsestraße – low floor network, typical station from the beginning of the 70ies:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

High floor Stadtbahn – Niehl, Sebastianstraße:










Dellbrück, Hauptstraße:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Mülheim Bahnhof:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Low floor Stadtbahn at storage sidings Zündorf:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Some city buses in the centre of Cologne at Neumarkt:



























_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Rudolfplatz:










Andreaskloster:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Meschenich:










Herler Straße:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Regional bus at Cologne's central bus station (ZOB):










Gummersbach Hindenburgstraße:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

More regional buses, Hürth, Stadtbücherei:










Bonn-Duisdorf (Bonn is served by Cologne's regional buses too):









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

City bus at Dellbrück Hauptstraße, crossing the Stadtbahn:










City bus at Bf. Mülheim:










Left – city bus of KVB, right – regional bus of RVK, Meschenich, Frankenstraße:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

City bus at the Dom (Cologne Cathedral):









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

City bus at Leuchterstraße:










Friesenplatz:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

City buses at Bergischer Ring:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

*S-Bahn Köln.*

At Gleisdreieck:










Near station Messe/Deutz:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## FabriFlorence (Sep 29, 2004)

I like the S-Bahn of Köln. Has it underground stations?


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

FabriFlorence said:


> I like the S-Bahn of Köln. Has it underground stations?


Yes, it has.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

This is one of them, Köln-Chorweiler:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## metro_minotaur (Feb 7, 2009)

I think another Underground S-bahn Station in Cologne is the Flughafen-Bahnhof/Airport Station

http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Cologne_Bonn_Aiport_Station.JPG&filetimestamp=20060721120153


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Yes, and another one is Köln-Chorweiler-Nord:









_wiki_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Another photo of station Köln-Chorweiler:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Cologne/Bonn airport:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

*Stadtbahn Köln.*

Station Keupstraße – B100S series 2:










Station Stegerwaldsiedlung – B80D series 3:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

K5000 near Üdorf:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

B100S series 2 entering the tunnel in Köln-Mülheim after crossing the Rhine on the Mülheimer Brücke:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

B100S series 2 crossing the river Rhine on the Mülheimer Brücke:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

B80D series 3 and B100S series 2 at Bf. Deutz/LanxessArena:










B100S series 2 at Dellbrück, Hauptstraße:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

K5000 at Suevenstraße:










K5000 at Vischeringstraße:










Vischeringstraße, B80D – left, K5000 – right:









_bahnbilder.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Regional express bus of the operator Wiedenhoff in Cologne at Wiener Platz. Destination is Solingen, the border between the agglomerations Cologne/Bonn and Rhein-Ruhr:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

More of Wiedenhoff in Leverkusen-Opladen:



















Another operator for regional buses in the agglomeration Cologne is Hüttebräucker, photo taken in Opladen:









_busbilder.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Elevated Stadtbahn stretch at Escher Straße:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

K5000 at Rheinenergie-Stadion:










Ebertplatz:










Wüllnerstraße:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

*More of K5000.*

Near Thielenbruch terminus:










On the Hochbahn (elevated stretch) near Neusser Straße/Gürtel:










Within K5000:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

*Some photos of K4500, the newest low floor trains.*
They call them "low floor" in Cologne, but to be exact, it is not low floor but middle floor. The trains need platforms of 35 cm height, they are similar to the trains of Vienna's U6.

Station Niehl:










In Winter:



















Wilhelm-Sollmann-Straße:














































Merkenich:



















Merkenich-Mitte:










Bensberg:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

S-Bahn approaching Merzenich:










Leaving Worringen:










Porz-Wahn:









_bahnbilder.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

One line of the S-Bahn Rhein-Ruhr network crosses the border to S-Bahn Köln. Here is a train of this line near Köln Hbf. on the "Stammstrecke":










Another train of this line on the Stammstrecke:










Approaching Köln Hbf.:









_bahnbilder.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

These S-Bahn push/pull trains consist of a loco class 143 and x-waggons. They are in service in the network of S-Bahn Nürnberg and S-Bahn Rhein-Ruhr. The class 143 has been built in the former GDR as class 243 as freight loco. Today some of the machines are used for S-Bahn traffic.
In the near future these trains will be substituted by emus ET422 in the Rhein-Ruhr network and by Talent 2 S-Bahn edtition emus in Nuremberg's network.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

So in the future ET423 of S-Bahn Köln and ET422 of S-Bahn Rhein-Ruhr will be seen on Cologne's "Stammstrecke".

P. S.: The "Stammstrecke" is the main stretch in the Centre of Cologne which is used by all lines of the S-Bahn network.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Stadtbahn Köln.

K5000 at station Im Weidenbruch:









_bahnbilder.de_

B100C of Stadtbahn Bonn in Cologne at station Herler Straße. It operates on line 18, a line which connects Cologne and Bonn. In the background a B80D train of Cologne's Stadtbahn operator KVB (Kölner Verkehrsbetriebe) can be seen.
The "F" on the box on the right means *F*ernsprecher – telephone, it's the so called Streckentelefon – stretch telephone:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

K5000 at Keupstraße:










B100S series 1 at Keupstraße:










B80D series 3 at Keupstraße – in the foreground the old tram track can be seen:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

K4000 at station Weiden-Zentrum:










B100S series 2. On the left – KVB Cologne, on the right – SSB Bonn/Rhein-Sieg. At Barbarossaplatz in Cologne:










B100S series 2 of KVB. Within the train:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

B80D series 3 in Waldorf:










Herler Straße:










Within the train:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

*Regional trains of Transregio (TR).*

Transregio is a competitor of Deutsche Bahn (DB). In and around Cologne they use Desiro ML trains, manufactured by Siemens.

Köln-Messe/Deutz, test drive:










TR in Köln Hbf.:



















Near Mediapark:










Messe/Deutz:










"The new star at the rhine":









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## MelbourneCity (Sep 12, 2002)

I saw Transregio trains in Cologne and Bonn. I considered catching one from Bonn to Cologne, however I didnt because it was so crowded.
Can you travel on the one KVB ticket on Transregio trains, or do you have to buy a different ticket?


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

MelbourneCity said:


> I saw Transregio trains in Cologne and Bonn. I considered catching one from Bonn to Cologne, however I didnt because it was so crowded.
> Can you travel on the one KVB ticket on Transregio trains, or do you have to buy a different ticket?


The Rhein-Sieg area (Cologne/Bonn agglomeration) is covered by VRS (Verkehrsverbund Rhein-Sieg). All regional and local tickets of the VRS members are equal, as long as you do not leave the VRS it makes no difference if you buy a ticket of KVB, RVK, DB, Transregio etc.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Stadtbahn Cologne, K5000, station Bahnhof Deutz/LanxessArena:










Buchheim, Frankfurter Straße:










Oskar-Jäger-Straße/Gürtel:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

B80D approaching station Wiener Platz:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Hohenzollernbrücke:







Köln Hbf.:


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

I have found another nice video. Trains in Cologne:


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Stadtbahn Cologne, modernised station Appellhofplatz/Breite Straße:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

B100S series 1 at station Reichenspergerplatz. This station is 35 years old and will be modernised soon. Platforms will be rebuilt according to the parameters of the high floor network:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Approaching station Slabystraße – fully grade separated Stadtbahn stretch:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Leaving station Severinstraße, in the background the building lot of the Nord-Süd-Stadtbahn can be seen:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## natarajan1986 (Sep 10, 2008)

interiors are good but they can opt for better seats with cushion:lol:


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Station Schlebusch:










Within a B100S series 1 train:










On the Deutzer Brücke crossing the Rhine:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

S-Bahn leaving station Köln-Messe/Deutz:










On the left S-Bahn approaching Köln-Messe/Deutz, on the right a regional express train:









_railfaneurope.net_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

S-Bahn at Nippes junction seen from the Köln Turm:










Approaching Merzenich, in the foreground are the tracks of the high speed line for the TGV Cologne–Brussels–Paris and the ICE Frankfurt/Main–Cologne–Brussels (250 km/h Vmax here):









_railfaneurope.net_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

On this photo the high speed tracks left of the S-Bahn tracks can be seen better:









_railfaneurope.net_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

S-Bahn station Frankfurter Straße in Cologne:









_railfaneurope.net_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Stadtbahn Cologne, special vehicle for works, near Merkenich:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Another vehicle for works, Herler Straße:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## olena (Aug 26, 2009)

Hi,
How can I get from the Cologne centre to Koln-Bonn airport at the night?
I have flight at 6.00 a.m so I have to be in airport at 4.00 a.m .
I do not want to take a taxi.


----------



## MelbourneCity (Sep 12, 2002)

I am fairly certain that the S bahn runs all night, maybe not very frequently though.

I had a 7:00 departure (Germanwings to London) and aimed to be there by 5:50am. My S Bahn train was scheduled to leave at around 5:30. I caught a Stadtbahn (rt5) at about 5:15am. The S bahn train arrived a few minutes late and lingered at Hbf for about 20minutes. Was not good, as I then got lost at Koln Airport. Surely that delay is something that wouldn't happen everyday!


----------



## webeagle12 (Oct 1, 2007)

olena said:


> Hi,
> How can I get from the Cologne centre to Koln-Bonn airport at the night?
> I have flight at 6.00 a.m so I have to be in airport at 4.00 a.m .
> I do not want to take a taxi.


http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/bhftafel.exe/en?ld=212.207&rt=1&

S13 train operating all night 
Station: Köln/Bonn Flughafen

Köln Hansaring 03:38 - Köln Hbf 03:41 - Köln Messe/Deutz Gl. 9-10 03:43 - Köln Trimbornstr 03:46 - Köln Frankfurter Straße 03:50 - Köln/Bonn Flughafen 03:55 

this one is suitable for you but take a look yourself


----------



## olena (Aug 26, 2009)

*webeagle12, MelbourneCity*.
Thank you very much!:lol:
And what about u-bahn? 
Does it operate at the night?


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

olena said:


> *webeagle12, MelbourneCity*.
> Thank you very much!:lol:
> And what about u-bahn?
> Does it operate at the night?


You mean Stadtbahn. Stadtbahn operates between 4:30 h and 1:30 h, so there is a break of three hours. But between fridays and saturdays, saturdays and sundays and before holidays it operates 24 hours a day.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

One of the last high floor articulated buses of RVK (Regionalverkehr Köln) in front of the château Bensberg near Cologne:









_busbilder.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Double decker regional bus near Cologne:



















Lower deck:










Upper deck:


















_busbilder.de_


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Stadtbahn at Frechen, Mühlengasse – not wasting any space:









_mm-trains.de_


----------



## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

^^ That looks like Japan  . I like it.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Rebasepoiss said:


> ^^ That looks like Japan  . I like it.


You are right, it is not normal for Germany.


----------



## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

Stadtbahn Cologne.

Weiden, Schulstraße:










Weiden-West:










Stadtwaldgürtel:









_mm-trains.de_


----------

